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    <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Leadership Tools &amp; Strategies</title>
    <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/the-nonprofit-exchange-archive/</link>
    <language>en</language>
    <copyright>Copyright 2022 SynerVision Leadership Foundation</copyright>
    <description>The Nonprofit Exchange is built for nonprofit leaders, board members, donors, and interested parties.</description>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Leadership Tools &amp; Strategies</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/the-nonprofit-exchange-archive/</link>
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    <itunes:subtitle>Leadership Tools &amp; Strategies</itunes:subtitle>
    <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
    <itunes:summary>The Nonprofit Exchange is built for nonprofit leaders, board members, donors, and interested parties.</itunes:summary>
    <content:encoded>
      <![CDATA[<p>The Nonprofit Exchange is built for nonprofit leaders, board members, donors, and interested parties.</p>]]>
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    <itunes:owner>
      <itunes:name>SynerVision Leadership Foundation</itunes:name>
      <itunes:email>hugh@synervisionfoundation.org</itunes:email>
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    <itunes:category text="Business">
      <itunes:category text="Non-Profit"/>
      <itunes:category text="Management"/>
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    <itunes:category text="Religion &amp; Spirituality">
    </itunes:category>
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      <title>Storytelling for Yourself and Your Community</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/05/12/storytelling-for-yourself-and-your-community/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Patton Dodd, an author and communications leader, about the profound impact of storytelling in our personal lives and communities. We explored how storytelling goes beyond mere communication tactics; it shapes our identities and influences our understanding of ourselves and the world around us.

Patton shared insights from his role as the Executive Director of Storytelling and Communications at the H.D. Black Foundation in San Antonio, where he uses storytelling as a strategic tool to address issues like poverty and economic segregation. He emphasized that everyone is a storyteller, whether through spoken words, writing, or even internal narratives.

We discussed common mistakes leaders make when telling stories, such as rushing to the conclusion without building tension and failing to engage in the process of curiosity and listening. Patton highlighted the importance of gathering diverse voices and perspectives to enrich our narratives, as well as the need for vulnerability in leadership to foster trust and openness.

Additionally, we touched on Patton's memoir, "The Father You Get and The Ones You Make, Believe In, and Become," which delves into his personal journey of fatherhood and the complexities of familial relationships. He also introduced his initiative, Know Your Neighbor, which aims to bridge divides in San Antonio through shared storytelling experiences.

As we wrapped up, I encouraged our listeners to reflect on their own stories and consider how they might re-narrate them for a more compassionate future. This conversation was a rich exploration of how stories can connect us, challenge our perceptions, and ultimately drive social change.

For more insights and resources, you can find Patton at PattonDodd.com and learn about his work at KnowYourNeighbor.com. Thank you for joining us on this journey of storytelling and community building!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2026 20:13:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Storytelling for Yourself and Your Community</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/18b520f0-4e3f-11f1-a658-875c263f7fb0/image/2d8c01d9ddf7caf9fbc2d204637441c5.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Power of Storytelling: Building Community and Connection</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Patton Dodd, an author and communications leader, about the profound impact of storytelling in our personal lives and communities. We explored how storytelling goes beyond mere communication tactics; it shapes our identities and influences our understanding of ourselves and the world around us.

Patton shared insights from his role as the Executive Director of Storytelling and Communications at the H.D. Black Foundation in San Antonio, where he uses storytelling as a strategic tool to address issues like poverty and economic segregation. He emphasized that everyone is a storyteller, whether through spoken words, writing, or even internal narratives.

We discussed common mistakes leaders make when telling stories, such as rushing to the conclusion without building tension and failing to engage in the process of curiosity and listening. Patton highlighted the importance of gathering diverse voices and perspectives to enrich our narratives, as well as the need for vulnerability in leadership to foster trust and openness.

Additionally, we touched on Patton's memoir, "The Father You Get and The Ones You Make, Believe In, and Become," which delves into his personal journey of fatherhood and the complexities of familial relationships. He also introduced his initiative, Know Your Neighbor, which aims to bridge divides in San Antonio through shared storytelling experiences.

As we wrapped up, I encouraged our listeners to reflect on their own stories and consider how they might re-narrate them for a more compassionate future. This conversation was a rich exploration of how stories can connect us, challenge our perceptions, and ultimately drive social change.

For more insights and resources, you can find Patton at PattonDodd.com and learn about his work at KnowYourNeighbor.com. Thank you for joining us on this journey of storytelling and community building!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Patton Dodd, an author and communications leader, about the profound impact of storytelling in our personal lives and communities. We explored how storytelling goes beyond mere communication tactics; it shapes our identities and influences our understanding of ourselves and the world around us.</p>
<p>Patton shared insights from his role as the Executive Director of Storytelling and Communications at the H.D. Black Foundation in San Antonio, where he uses storytelling as a strategic tool to address issues like poverty and economic segregation. He emphasized that everyone is a storyteller, whether through spoken words, writing, or even internal narratives.</p>
<p>We discussed common mistakes leaders make when telling stories, such as rushing to the conclusion without building tension and failing to engage in the process of curiosity and listening. Patton highlighted the importance of gathering diverse voices and perspectives to enrich our narratives, as well as the need for vulnerability in leadership to foster trust and openness.</p>
<p>Additionally, we touched on Patton's memoir, "The Father You Get and The Ones You Make, Believe In, and Become," which delves into his personal journey of fatherhood and the complexities of familial relationships. He also introduced his initiative, Know Your Neighbor, which aims to bridge divides in San Antonio through shared storytelling experiences.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, I encouraged our listeners to reflect on their own stories and consider how they might re-narrate them for a more compassionate future. This conversation was a rich exploration of how stories can connect us, challenge our perceptions, and ultimately drive social change.</p>
<p>For more insights and resources, you can find Patton at PattonDodd.com and learn about his work at KnowYourNeighbor.com. Thank you for joining us on this journey of storytelling and community building!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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    <item>
      <title>Financial Clarity: How to Outsmart Your Fear and Redesign Your Future</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/05/05/financial-clarity-how-to-outsmart-your-fear-and-redesign-your-future/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Becca Pierce, an MBA and president of Xtend Coaching and Consulting. With over a decade of experience as an executive coach, Becca brings a transformational perspective on financial clarity and the emotional barriers that often accompany it.

We delved into the pervasive issue of financial fear, which she identifies as a significant barrier to creativity and decision-making for leaders in both nonprofit and corporate sectors. Becca emphasized that this fear often stems from a scarcity mindset, particularly prevalent in nonprofit organizations, and can paralyze leaders from exploring new possibilities.

Throughout our conversation, Becca shared practical strategies for overcoming this fear, including the importance of understanding one's financial situation through simple math—knowing how much you earn, spend, and need. She highlighted the necessity of having a financial plan, which serves as a roadmap for sustainable growth and allows leaders to make informed decisions without being overwhelmed by anxiety.

We also discussed the critical role of surrounding oneself with experts, such as financial planners and treasurers, to help interpret numbers and guide decision-making. Becca stressed that leadership is about creating space for others to contribute, rather than trying to manage every detail personally.

In addition to financial clarity, we explored the emotional aspects of leadership, including the need to set boundaries and the importance of self-care to prevent burnout. Becca shared her personal journey, including her experience with a brain tumor, which led her to redefine her understanding of success and the importance of leading from a place of wholeness rather than depletion.

Becca's new book, "You Don't Have to Achieve to Be Loved," encapsulates her philosophy that self-worth is not tied to achievement. She encourages leaders to embrace their passions and design a future that aligns with their values.

As we wrapped up, Becca offered valuable insights on time management, emphasizing that time is our only non-renewable resource. She reminded us that we don't need to chase after financial success to find fulfillment in life.

This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for anyone looking to transform their relationship with money, leadership, and personal well-being. I encourage you to listen, reflect, and consider how you can apply Becca's insights to your own journey.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2026 20:47:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Financial Clarity: How to Outsmart Your Fear and Redesign Your Future</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/b324f2f4-48c3-11f1-8091-87359e7424c5/image/3f8229fb63e4c2cd9ccc2d205c70abb6.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Beyond Scarcity: Embracing Financial Clarity in Nonprofit Leadership</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Becca Pierce, an MBA and president of Xtend Coaching and Consulting. With over a decade of experience as an executive coach, Becca brings a transformational perspective on financial clarity and the emotional barriers that often accompany it.

We delved into the pervasive issue of financial fear, which she identifies as a significant barrier to creativity and decision-making for leaders in both nonprofit and corporate sectors. Becca emphasized that this fear often stems from a scarcity mindset, particularly prevalent in nonprofit organizations, and can paralyze leaders from exploring new possibilities.

Throughout our conversation, Becca shared practical strategies for overcoming this fear, including the importance of understanding one's financial situation through simple math—knowing how much you earn, spend, and need. She highlighted the necessity of having a financial plan, which serves as a roadmap for sustainable growth and allows leaders to make informed decisions without being overwhelmed by anxiety.

We also discussed the critical role of surrounding oneself with experts, such as financial planners and treasurers, to help interpret numbers and guide decision-making. Becca stressed that leadership is about creating space for others to contribute, rather than trying to manage every detail personally.

In addition to financial clarity, we explored the emotional aspects of leadership, including the need to set boundaries and the importance of self-care to prevent burnout. Becca shared her personal journey, including her experience with a brain tumor, which led her to redefine her understanding of success and the importance of leading from a place of wholeness rather than depletion.

Becca's new book, "You Don't Have to Achieve to Be Loved," encapsulates her philosophy that self-worth is not tied to achievement. She encourages leaders to embrace their passions and design a future that aligns with their values.

As we wrapped up, Becca offered valuable insights on time management, emphasizing that time is our only non-renewable resource. She reminded us that we don't need to chase after financial success to find fulfillment in life.

This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for anyone looking to transform their relationship with money, leadership, and personal well-being. I encourage you to listen, reflect, and consider how you can apply Becca's insights to your own journey.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Becca Pierce, an MBA and president of Xtend Coaching and Consulting. With over a decade of experience as an executive coach, Becca brings a transformational perspective on financial clarity and the emotional barriers that often accompany it.</p>
<p>We delved into the pervasive issue of financial fear, which she identifies as a significant barrier to creativity and decision-making for leaders in both nonprofit and corporate sectors. Becca emphasized that this fear often stems from a scarcity mindset, particularly prevalent in nonprofit organizations, and can paralyze leaders from exploring new possibilities.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, Becca shared practical strategies for overcoming this fear, including the importance of understanding one's financial situation through simple math—knowing how much you earn, spend, and need. She highlighted the necessity of having a financial plan, which serves as a roadmap for sustainable growth and allows leaders to make informed decisions without being overwhelmed by anxiety.</p>
<p>We also discussed the critical role of surrounding oneself with experts, such as financial planners and treasurers, to help interpret numbers and guide decision-making. Becca stressed that leadership is about creating space for others to contribute, rather than trying to manage every detail personally.</p>
<p>In addition to financial clarity, we explored the emotional aspects of leadership, including the need to set boundaries and the importance of self-care to prevent burnout. Becca shared her personal journey, including her experience with a brain tumor, which led her to redefine her understanding of success and the importance of leading from a place of wholeness rather than depletion.</p>
<p>Becca's new book, "You Don't Have to Achieve to Be Loved," encapsulates her philosophy that self-worth is not tied to achievement. She encourages leaders to embrace their passions and design a future that aligns with their values.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Becca offered valuable insights on time management, emphasizing that time is our only non-renewable resource. She reminded us that we don't need to chase after financial success to find fulfillment in life.</p>
<p>This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for anyone looking to transform their relationship with money, leadership, and personal well-being. I encourage you to listen, reflect, and consider how you can apply Becca's insights to your own journey.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1552</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Your Board – Your Singular Strategic Advantage</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/04/28/your-board-your-singular-strategic-advantage/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Deb McFarland-Enright, a nationally recognized expert in nonprofit governance and board development. Our conversation centered around the critical role that boards of directors play in nonprofit organizations and how they can be transformed from passive oversight bodies into powerful strategic assets.

Dr. Deb emphasized that each board seat is a priceless asset, representing an opportunity to make a meaningful impact in various areas, from social justice to community support. However, many nonprofits fail to leverage this potential because they view boards as a necessary evil rather than as partners in their mission. We discussed the importance of recruiting board members with purpose, aligning their expertise with the organization's strategic plan, and establishing clear expectations for their roles.

One key takeaway was the need for a shift in mindset—from merely filling seats to recognizing the strategic advantage that a well-composed board can provide. Dr. Deb highlighted the importance of accountability and engagement, suggesting that boards should be held to high standards and that members should be actively involved in the organization's work.

We also touched on the significance of a living strategic plan, which serves as a guiding document for board activities and decision-making. Dr. Deb shared insights on how to create a culture of relationships within the board, emphasizing the need for orientation and mentorship for new members.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Deb announced her upcoming book, "Appropriately Bored to Death," which aims to provide practical guidance for transforming nonprofit boards into strategic catalysts for change. This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their board's effectiveness and drive their mission forward.

I encourage you to visit Dr. Deb's website, themcfarlandgroup.com, for more resources and to stay tuned for her book release. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening journey into nonprofit governance!

More information at https://www.themacfarlangroup.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2026 19:13:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Your Board – Your Singular Strategic Advantage</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/48455fb0-4336-11f1-a00c-e3393c8a6fad/image/503ef474adc25b7011d5145393e5ad42.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Transforming Nonprofit Boards: From Passive Oversight to Strategic Powerhouses</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Deb McFarland-Enright, a nationally recognized expert in nonprofit governance and board development. Our conversation centered around the critical role that boards of directors play in nonprofit organizations and how they can be transformed from passive oversight bodies into powerful strategic assets.

Dr. Deb emphasized that each board seat is a priceless asset, representing an opportunity to make a meaningful impact in various areas, from social justice to community support. However, many nonprofits fail to leverage this potential because they view boards as a necessary evil rather than as partners in their mission. We discussed the importance of recruiting board members with purpose, aligning their expertise with the organization's strategic plan, and establishing clear expectations for their roles.

One key takeaway was the need for a shift in mindset—from merely filling seats to recognizing the strategic advantage that a well-composed board can provide. Dr. Deb highlighted the importance of accountability and engagement, suggesting that boards should be held to high standards and that members should be actively involved in the organization's work.

We also touched on the significance of a living strategic plan, which serves as a guiding document for board activities and decision-making. Dr. Deb shared insights on how to create a culture of relationships within the board, emphasizing the need for orientation and mentorship for new members.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Deb announced her upcoming book, "Appropriately Bored to Death," which aims to provide practical guidance for transforming nonprofit boards into strategic catalysts for change. This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their board's effectiveness and drive their mission forward.

I encourage you to visit Dr. Deb's website, themcfarlandgroup.com, for more resources and to stay tuned for her book release. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening journey into nonprofit governance!

More information at https://www.themacfarlangroup.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Deb McFarland-Enright, a nationally recognized expert in nonprofit governance and board development. Our conversation centered around the critical role that boards of directors play in nonprofit organizations and how they can be transformed from passive oversight bodies into powerful strategic assets.</p>
<p>Dr. Deb emphasized that each board seat is a priceless asset, representing an opportunity to make a meaningful impact in various areas, from social justice to community support. However, many nonprofits fail to leverage this potential because they view boards as a necessary evil rather than as partners in their mission. We discussed the importance of recruiting board members with purpose, aligning their expertise with the organization's strategic plan, and establishing clear expectations for their roles.</p>
<p>One key takeaway was the need for a shift in mindset—from merely filling seats to recognizing the strategic advantage that a well-composed board can provide. Dr. Deb highlighted the importance of accountability and engagement, suggesting that boards should be held to high standards and that members should be actively involved in the organization's work.</p>
<p>We also touched on the significance of a living strategic plan, which serves as a guiding document for board activities and decision-making. Dr. Deb shared insights on how to create a culture of relationships within the board, emphasizing the need for orientation and mentorship for new members.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Dr. Deb announced her upcoming book, "Appropriately Bored to Death," which aims to provide practical guidance for transforming nonprofit boards into strategic catalysts for change. This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their board's effectiveness and drive their mission forward.</p>
<p>I encourage you to visit Dr. Deb's website, themcfarlandgroup.com, for more resources and to stay tuned for her book release. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening journey into nonprofit governance!</p>
<p>More information at <a href="https://www.themacfarlangroup.com/"><strong>https://www.themacfarlangroup.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1676</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Sustained Momentum Begins With A Simple Equation – Master It!</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/04/21/sustained-momentum-begins-with-a-simple-equation-master-it/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Chip Higgins, a business strategist and performance coach. We delved into the concept of sustained momentum, which Chip describes through a simple yet powerful equation: mass times velocity. He emphasizes that understanding this equation can help nonprofit leaders create clarity, discipline, and effective systems to drive their organizations forward.

Chip shared insights from his book, "The Physics Way: Powering Your Small Business to Maximum Momentum," where he applies principles of physics to the world of business and nonprofits. He highlighted the importance of having clear goals and a well-articulated mission, as these elements provide the necessary direction and energy for organizations to thrive. We discussed how clarity can prevent mission creep and ensure that everyone involved is aligned with the organization's objectives.

Throughout our conversation, Chip pointed out common barriers to momentum, particularly in the nonprofit sector, such as leadership transitions and the challenges of maintaining energy and focus over time. He stressed the significance of consistency and discipline, advocating for a steady, intentional approach to growth rather than seeking rapid, unsustainable success.

For those interested in exploring these concepts further, Chip offers a free chapter of his book and a diagnostic quiz on his website, chiphiggins.com. This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their impact and drive sustained momentum in their organizations.

More about Chip Higgins at - https://chiphiggins.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2026 19:28:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Sustained Momentum Begins With A Simple Equation – Master It!</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/52023d1c-3db8-11f1-af7e-ebb090254b2a/image/c672d9d75dc87459f71fc826389fd3a0.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Momentum Equation: Energy, Direction, and the Path to Nonprofit Success</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Chip Higgins, a business strategist and performance coach. We delved into the concept of sustained momentum, which Chip describes through a simple yet powerful equation: mass times velocity. He emphasizes that understanding this equation can help nonprofit leaders create clarity, discipline, and effective systems to drive their organizations forward.

Chip shared insights from his book, "The Physics Way: Powering Your Small Business to Maximum Momentum," where he applies principles of physics to the world of business and nonprofits. He highlighted the importance of having clear goals and a well-articulated mission, as these elements provide the necessary direction and energy for organizations to thrive. We discussed how clarity can prevent mission creep and ensure that everyone involved is aligned with the organization's objectives.

Throughout our conversation, Chip pointed out common barriers to momentum, particularly in the nonprofit sector, such as leadership transitions and the challenges of maintaining energy and focus over time. He stressed the significance of consistency and discipline, advocating for a steady, intentional approach to growth rather than seeking rapid, unsustainable success.

For those interested in exploring these concepts further, Chip offers a free chapter of his book and a diagnostic quiz on his website, chiphiggins.com. This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their impact and drive sustained momentum in their organizations.

More about Chip Higgins at - https://chiphiggins.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Chip Higgins, a business strategist and performance coach. We delved into the concept of sustained momentum, which Chip describes through a simple yet powerful equation: mass times velocity. He emphasizes that understanding this equation can help nonprofit leaders create clarity, discipline, and effective systems to drive their organizations forward.</p>
<p>Chip shared insights from his book, "The Physics Way: Powering Your Small Business to Maximum Momentum," where he applies principles of physics to the world of business and nonprofits. He highlighted the importance of having clear goals and a well-articulated mission, as these elements provide the necessary direction and energy for organizations to thrive. We discussed how clarity can prevent mission creep and ensure that everyone involved is aligned with the organization's objectives.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, Chip pointed out common barriers to momentum, particularly in the nonprofit sector, such as leadership transitions and the challenges of maintaining energy and focus over time. He stressed the significance of consistency and discipline, advocating for a steady, intentional approach to growth rather than seeking rapid, unsustainable success.</p>
<p>For those interested in exploring these concepts further, Chip offers a free chapter of his book and a diagnostic quiz on his website, chiphiggins.com. This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their impact and drive sustained momentum in their organizations.</p>
<p>More about Chip Higgins at - <a href="https://chiphiggins.com/">https://chiphiggins.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1719</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>From Crisis to Clarity: Leading with Preparedness and Resilience</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/04/14/from-crisis-to-clarity-leading-with-preparedness-and-resilience/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Connie Myers, a crisis leadership strategist and founder of BePreparedBeReady.org. Connie brings over four decades of experience, including her time as a FEMA inspector, to help nonprofit leaders and communities transition from vulnerability to resilience.

We delved into the importance of having a clear vision, especially in times of crisis. Connie shared her personal journey of discovering the power of visioning after the loss of her husband, emphasizing that preparation is not just about survival but about leadership and creating a sustainable impact. She outlined her approach to visioning, which involves looking at four key pillars: health, relationships, financial freedom, and career.

Connie also discussed her initiatives, such as Kits for Kids, which aim to empower communities and protect children during crises. We explored the significance of collaboration and community involvement in achieving these goals, highlighting that true collaboration comes without strings attached and focuses on mutual benefits.

Throughout our conversation, Connie stressed the importance of mindfulness and maintaining a resilient mindset, especially in the face of adversity. She provided practical advice for nonprofit leaders on how to cultivate a culture of preparedness within their organizations.

As we wrapped up, Connie shared her vision of helping 30 million people become better prepared and more sustainable, reinforcing the idea that a well-articulated vision can inspire action and drive meaningful change. This episode is a reminder that preparation is not just about avoiding crises; it's about building the leadership capacity to perform at our best when it matters most.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2026 19:49:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>From Crisis to Clarity: Leading with Preparedness and Resilience</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/d40d1738-383a-11f1-946c-a32c97be0f0f/image/d8acd2799e51e82b3e6c65aa662c6707.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Visioning for Resilience: How Leaders Can Prepare for the Unexpected</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Connie Myers, a crisis leadership strategist and founder of BePreparedBeReady.org. Connie brings over four decades of experience, including her time as a FEMA inspector, to help nonprofit leaders and communities transition from vulnerability to resilience.

We delved into the importance of having a clear vision, especially in times of crisis. Connie shared her personal journey of discovering the power of visioning after the loss of her husband, emphasizing that preparation is not just about survival but about leadership and creating a sustainable impact. She outlined her approach to visioning, which involves looking at four key pillars: health, relationships, financial freedom, and career.

Connie also discussed her initiatives, such as Kits for Kids, which aim to empower communities and protect children during crises. We explored the significance of collaboration and community involvement in achieving these goals, highlighting that true collaboration comes without strings attached and focuses on mutual benefits.

Throughout our conversation, Connie stressed the importance of mindfulness and maintaining a resilient mindset, especially in the face of adversity. She provided practical advice for nonprofit leaders on how to cultivate a culture of preparedness within their organizations.

As we wrapped up, Connie shared her vision of helping 30 million people become better prepared and more sustainable, reinforcing the idea that a well-articulated vision can inspire action and drive meaningful change. This episode is a reminder that preparation is not just about avoiding crises; it's about building the leadership capacity to perform at our best when it matters most.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Connie Myers, a crisis leadership strategist and founder of BePreparedBeReady.org. Connie brings over four decades of experience, including her time as a FEMA inspector, to help nonprofit leaders and communities transition from vulnerability to resilience.</p>
<p>We delved into the importance of having a clear vision, especially in times of crisis. Connie shared her personal journey of discovering the power of visioning after the loss of her husband, emphasizing that preparation is not just about survival but about leadership and creating a sustainable impact. She outlined her approach to visioning, which involves looking at four key pillars: health, relationships, financial freedom, and career.</p>
<p>Connie also discussed her initiatives, such as Kits for Kids, which aim to empower communities and protect children during crises. We explored the significance of collaboration and community involvement in achieving these goals, highlighting that true collaboration comes without strings attached and focuses on mutual benefits.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, Connie stressed the importance of mindfulness and maintaining a resilient mindset, especially in the face of adversity. She provided practical advice for nonprofit leaders on how to cultivate a culture of preparedness within their organizations.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Connie shared her vision of helping 30 million people become better prepared and more sustainable, reinforcing the idea that a well-articulated vision can inspire action and drive meaningful change. This episode is a reminder that preparation is not just about avoiding crises; it's about building the leadership capacity to perform at our best when it matters most.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1583</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d40d1738-383a-11f1-946c-a32c97be0f0f]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5004404155.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>From Transactional to Transformational: Rethinking Funder–Nonprofit Relationships</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/04/07/from-transactional-to-transformational-rethinking-fundernonprofit-relationships/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, we dive deep into the critical topic of transforming the relationship between funders and nonprofits, moving from transactional interactions to transformational partnerships. Our guest, Stephen Minix from Upmetrics, brings a wealth of knowledge on how to foster deeper, data-informed collaborations that drive real impact in the nonprofit sector.

Stephen describes the typical relationship between funders and nonprofits as largely compliance-driven, where nonprofits report data to validate funding, often missing the opportunity for meaningful learning and growth. He emphasizes the importance of shifting this dynamic to focus on relationships and shared learning, which can lead to more impactful outcomes.

We explore the contrast between transactional and transformational relationships, highlighting the need for funders to engage more deeply with nonprofits, not just as financial backers but as partners in the journey toward social change. Stephen shares insights on the importance of defining success collaboratively and using data not just for compliance, but as a tool for continuous improvement and learning.

Throughout the conversation, we discuss the challenges nonprofits face in managing data and the necessity of clarity and capacity in their operations. Stephen encourages nonprofit leaders to avoid the trap of overfunctioning and to seek partnerships that can help them streamline their data processes and enhance their impact.

As we wrap up, Stephen leaves us with a powerful reminder: "Impact does not come from perfect plans. It comes from honest learning." This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders, board members, and funders alike, and I encourage you to listen closely and consider how you can apply these principles in your own work. For more information and resources, visit Upmetrics' website and explore the tools available to help you on your journey toward transformational change.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2026 19:22:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>From Transactional to Transformational: Rethinking Funder–Nonprofit Relationships</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/218187d0-32b7-11f1-b4a9-6f23d7b39098/image/2054c222b01af051ee43d90e27ff8962.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Data-Driven Impact: Transforming Nonprofit and Funder Engagement</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, we dive deep into the critical topic of transforming the relationship between funders and nonprofits, moving from transactional interactions to transformational partnerships. Our guest, Stephen Minix from Upmetrics, brings a wealth of knowledge on how to foster deeper, data-informed collaborations that drive real impact in the nonprofit sector.

Stephen describes the typical relationship between funders and nonprofits as largely compliance-driven, where nonprofits report data to validate funding, often missing the opportunity for meaningful learning and growth. He emphasizes the importance of shifting this dynamic to focus on relationships and shared learning, which can lead to more impactful outcomes.

We explore the contrast between transactional and transformational relationships, highlighting the need for funders to engage more deeply with nonprofits, not just as financial backers but as partners in the journey toward social change. Stephen shares insights on the importance of defining success collaboratively and using data not just for compliance, but as a tool for continuous improvement and learning.

Throughout the conversation, we discuss the challenges nonprofits face in managing data and the necessity of clarity and capacity in their operations. Stephen encourages nonprofit leaders to avoid the trap of overfunctioning and to seek partnerships that can help them streamline their data processes and enhance their impact.

As we wrap up, Stephen leaves us with a powerful reminder: "Impact does not come from perfect plans. It comes from honest learning." This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders, board members, and funders alike, and I encourage you to listen closely and consider how you can apply these principles in your own work. For more information and resources, visit Upmetrics' website and explore the tools available to help you on your journey toward transformational change.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, we dive deep into the critical topic of transforming the relationship between funders and nonprofits, moving from transactional interactions to transformational partnerships. Our guest, Stephen Minix from Upmetrics, brings a wealth of knowledge on how to foster deeper, data-informed collaborations that drive real impact in the nonprofit sector.</p>
<p>Stephen describes the typical relationship between funders and nonprofits as largely compliance-driven, where nonprofits report data to validate funding, often missing the opportunity for meaningful learning and growth. He emphasizes the importance of shifting this dynamic to focus on relationships and shared learning, which can lead to more impactful outcomes.</p>
<p>We explore the contrast between transactional and transformational relationships, highlighting the need for funders to engage more deeply with nonprofits, not just as financial backers but as partners in the journey toward social change. Stephen shares insights on the importance of defining success collaboratively and using data not just for compliance, but as a tool for continuous improvement and learning.</p>
<p>Throughout the conversation, we discuss the challenges nonprofits face in managing data and the necessity of clarity and capacity in their operations. Stephen encourages nonprofit leaders to avoid the trap of overfunctioning and to seek partnerships that can help them streamline their data processes and enhance their impact.</p>
<p>As we wrap up, Stephen leaves us with a powerful reminder: "Impact does not come from perfect plans. It comes from honest learning." This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders, board members, and funders alike, and I encourage you to listen closely and consider how you can apply these principles in your own work. For more information and resources, visit Upmetrics' website and explore the tools available to help you on your journey toward transformational change.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1631</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[218187d0-32b7-11f1-b4a9-6f23d7b39098]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8483137782.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Clarity Before Strategy: Getting Your Mission Straight</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/03/31/clarity-before-strategy-getting-your-mission-straight/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Loren Richmond Jr., the founder of Resonate Purpose. Loren brings a unique blend of theological insight and business strategy, holding both an MDiv and an MBA with a nonprofit emphasis. His work focuses on helping churches and nonprofits clarify their mission, strengthen communication, and build sustainable strategies for impact.

We kicked off our conversation by discussing the importance of clarity in mission-driven leadership. Loren emphasized that clarity means having a clear direction and understanding of one's purpose, which is crucial for organizations that often feel overwhelmed by the multitude of needs and opportunities around them. We explored common signs that a nonprofit or church has lost its mission clarity, such as the inability to say no to good ideas that don't align with their core mission.

Loren shared valuable insights on the consequences of rushing into action without proper reflection, highlighting the need for leaders to take time to think and process their decisions. We also touched on the significance of defining a mission statement that is not just words on paper but actionable and accountable.

Throughout our discussion, Loren stressed the importance of curiosity and listening to the community, which can help leaders avoid blind spots and foster better relationships. We explored the concept of being "stuck" and how small wins can help leaders regain momentum. Loren provided practical advice on building alignment within teams and the importance of regular communication to ensure everyone is working towards the same goals.

As we wrapped up, Loren shared rapid-fire insights on leadership, including the significance of clarity in defining a mission and the necessity of conducting a workload scrub to manage responsibilities effectively. He reminded us that every leader is called to something different and should support themselves and their teams in various ways.

This episode is packed with actionable advice and thought-provoking insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their clarity and strategy. For more information and resources, visit Loren's website at resonatepurpose.org. Thank you for joining us on this journey of leadership and purpose!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2026 19:52:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Clarity Before Strategy: Getting Your Mission Straight</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/2f8c6e20-2d3b-11f1-9d6f-5724bc68f15b/image/98af829f5dc47a6b4488e3245881c3bb.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>From Confusion to Clarity: Strategies for Mission-Driven Organizations</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Loren Richmond Jr., the founder of Resonate Purpose. Loren brings a unique blend of theological insight and business strategy, holding both an MDiv and an MBA with a nonprofit emphasis. His work focuses on helping churches and nonprofits clarify their mission, strengthen communication, and build sustainable strategies for impact.

We kicked off our conversation by discussing the importance of clarity in mission-driven leadership. Loren emphasized that clarity means having a clear direction and understanding of one's purpose, which is crucial for organizations that often feel overwhelmed by the multitude of needs and opportunities around them. We explored common signs that a nonprofit or church has lost its mission clarity, such as the inability to say no to good ideas that don't align with their core mission.

Loren shared valuable insights on the consequences of rushing into action without proper reflection, highlighting the need for leaders to take time to think and process their decisions. We also touched on the significance of defining a mission statement that is not just words on paper but actionable and accountable.

Throughout our discussion, Loren stressed the importance of curiosity and listening to the community, which can help leaders avoid blind spots and foster better relationships. We explored the concept of being "stuck" and how small wins can help leaders regain momentum. Loren provided practical advice on building alignment within teams and the importance of regular communication to ensure everyone is working towards the same goals.

As we wrapped up, Loren shared rapid-fire insights on leadership, including the significance of clarity in defining a mission and the necessity of conducting a workload scrub to manage responsibilities effectively. He reminded us that every leader is called to something different and should support themselves and their teams in various ways.

This episode is packed with actionable advice and thought-provoking insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their clarity and strategy. For more information and resources, visit Loren's website at resonatepurpose.org. Thank you for joining us on this journey of leadership and purpose!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Loren Richmond Jr., the founder of Resonate Purpose. Loren brings a unique blend of theological insight and business strategy, holding both an MDiv and an MBA with a nonprofit emphasis. His work focuses on helping churches and nonprofits clarify their mission, strengthen communication, and build sustainable strategies for impact.</p>
<p>We kicked off our conversation by discussing the importance of clarity in mission-driven leadership. Loren emphasized that clarity means having a clear direction and understanding of one's purpose, which is crucial for organizations that often feel overwhelmed by the multitude of needs and opportunities around them. We explored common signs that a nonprofit or church has lost its mission clarity, such as the inability to say no to good ideas that don't align with their core mission.</p>
<p>Loren shared valuable insights on the consequences of rushing into action without proper reflection, highlighting the need for leaders to take time to think and process their decisions. We also touched on the significance of defining a mission statement that is not just words on paper but actionable and accountable.</p>
<p>Throughout our discussion, Loren stressed the importance of curiosity and listening to the community, which can help leaders avoid blind spots and foster better relationships. We explored the concept of being "stuck" and how small wins can help leaders regain momentum. Loren provided practical advice on building alignment within teams and the importance of regular communication to ensure everyone is working towards the same goals.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Loren shared rapid-fire insights on leadership, including the significance of clarity in defining a mission and the necessity of conducting a workload scrub to manage responsibilities effectively. He reminded us that every leader is called to something different and should support themselves and their teams in various ways.</p>
<p>This episode is packed with actionable advice and thought-provoking insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their clarity and strategy. For more information and resources, visit Loren's website at resonatepurpose.org. Thank you for joining us on this journey of leadership and purpose!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1523</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2f8c6e20-2d3b-11f1-9d6f-5724bc68f15b]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9348039323.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Changing My Mind: Leadership Lessons for Ministry and Nonprofit Leaders</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/03/25/1-changing-my-mind-leadership-lessons-for-ministry-and-nonprofit-leaders/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming back Will Willimon, a United Methodist bishop, pastor, professor, and prolific author. We discussed his latest book, "Changing My Mind: The Overlooked Virtue for Faithful Ministry," which reflects on his decades of experience in ministry and leadership.

Willimon emphasizes the importance of humility, adaptability, and lifelong learning for leaders, particularly in the nonprofit sector. He shared insights on the necessity of changing one's mind and approach in response to the evolving needs of the community and the mission of organizations. We explored how leaders often cling to familiar methods, but true leadership requires recognizing when change is needed, especially in a rapidly changing world.

Throughout our conversation, we touched on the significance of active listening as a leadership discipline, the challenges of over-functioning, and the importance of creating a culture that encourages risk-taking and innovation. Willimon also shared personal anecdotes about his leadership journey, including the lessons he learned about delegation and the need for honest communication within organizations.

As we wrapped up, we discussed the hope for the future of the church and mission-driven organizations, grounded in the belief that working towards good aligns with a higher purpose. This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone in a leadership role, especially those in nonprofit and faith-based organizations.

I encourage our listeners to check out Willimon's book for a deeper understanding of these concepts and to reflect on their own leadership practices. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening journey!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2026 18:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Changing My Mind: Leadership Lessons for Ministry and Nonprofit Leaders</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/982d5ad0-2894-11f1-ae7e-f3f5262da796/image/8dcf73adbd9db6266fbf119865ccd488.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Navigating Change in Nonprofits: Insights from Will Willimon 's New Book</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming back Will Willimon, a United Methodist bishop, pastor, professor, and prolific author. We discussed his latest book, "Changing My Mind: The Overlooked Virtue for Faithful Ministry," which reflects on his decades of experience in ministry and leadership.

Willimon emphasizes the importance of humility, adaptability, and lifelong learning for leaders, particularly in the nonprofit sector. He shared insights on the necessity of changing one's mind and approach in response to the evolving needs of the community and the mission of organizations. We explored how leaders often cling to familiar methods, but true leadership requires recognizing when change is needed, especially in a rapidly changing world.

Throughout our conversation, we touched on the significance of active listening as a leadership discipline, the challenges of over-functioning, and the importance of creating a culture that encourages risk-taking and innovation. Willimon also shared personal anecdotes about his leadership journey, including the lessons he learned about delegation and the need for honest communication within organizations.

As we wrapped up, we discussed the hope for the future of the church and mission-driven organizations, grounded in the belief that working towards good aligns with a higher purpose. This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone in a leadership role, especially those in nonprofit and faith-based organizations.

I encourage our listeners to check out Willimon's book for a deeper understanding of these concepts and to reflect on their own leadership practices. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening journey!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming back Will Willimon, a United Methodist bishop, pastor, professor, and prolific author. We discussed his latest book, "Changing My Mind: The Overlooked Virtue for Faithful Ministry," which reflects on his decades of experience in ministry and leadership.</p>
<p>Willimon emphasizes the importance of humility, adaptability, and lifelong learning for leaders, particularly in the nonprofit sector. He shared insights on the necessity of changing one's mind and approach in response to the evolving needs of the community and the mission of organizations. We explored how leaders often cling to familiar methods, but true leadership requires recognizing when change is needed, especially in a rapidly changing world.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, we touched on the significance of active listening as a leadership discipline, the challenges of over-functioning, and the importance of creating a culture that encourages risk-taking and innovation. Willimon also shared personal anecdotes about his leadership journey, including the lessons he learned about delegation and the need for honest communication within organizations.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, we discussed the hope for the future of the church and mission-driven organizations, grounded in the belief that working towards good aligns with a higher purpose. This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone in a leadership role, especially those in nonprofit and faith-based organizations.</p>
<p>I encourage our listeners to check out Willimon's book for a deeper understanding of these concepts and to reflect on their own leadership practices. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening journey!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2638</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[982d5ad0-2894-11f1-ae7e-f3f5262da796]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4017798808.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>From Surviving to Thriving: Embracing Purpose and Stewardship in Leadership</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/03/24/thriving-rather-than-surviving-living-with-purpose-and-contentment/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, we had the privilege of speaking with Larry Onan, a seasoned voice in Christian stewardship with over 50 years of experience. Our conversation centered around the vital theme of moving from surviving to thriving, emphasizing the importance of living and leading with purpose, clarity, and commitment.

Larry shared his insights on the difference between merely surviving—waking up each day without direction—and truly thriving, which involves embracing life with joy and purpose. He highlighted the concept of stewardship, explaining that it extends beyond financial contributions to encompass managing all aspects of life, including time and talent. This shift in mindset is crucial for nonprofit leaders, who often operate under stress and scarcity thinking.

We explored how to discover our purpose and calling, with Larry emphasizing the importance of aligning our work with our innate strengths rather than merely fulfilling job roles. He also addressed the high burnout rates among leaders and offered practical advice on embracing the freedom to fail, which can foster a culture of innovation and resilience.

Larry's perspective on abundance and contentment challenged conventional views, reminding us that true abundance is not defined by material wealth but by the richness of our experiences and relationships. He encouraged listeners to cultivate a mindset of contentment, which is a choice rather than a circumstance.

As we wrapped up, Larry introduced his book, "Intentional Living and Giving," which serves as a guide for individuals and leaders seeking to thrive in their stewardship roles. He also provided a valuable resource in the form of a Personal Stewardship Inventory, allowing listeners to evaluate their own stewardship practices.

This episode was a treasure trove of wisdom, and I hope our audience walks away inspired to lead with purpose and embrace the journey from survival to thriving. Thank you for joining us and be sure to check out Larry's resources at LarryOnan.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2026 19:33:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>From Surviving to Thriving: Embracing Purpose and Stewardship in Leadership</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/5b8ce6a4-27b8-11f1-bd2e-237f39031081/image/b14a673b76e4faf587de80b6fb90b8eb.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Intentional Living and Giving: Discovering Your Purpose with Larry Onan</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, we had the privilege of speaking with Larry Onan, a seasoned voice in Christian stewardship with over 50 years of experience. Our conversation centered around the vital theme of moving from surviving to thriving, emphasizing the importance of living and leading with purpose, clarity, and commitment.

Larry shared his insights on the difference between merely surviving—waking up each day without direction—and truly thriving, which involves embracing life with joy and purpose. He highlighted the concept of stewardship, explaining that it extends beyond financial contributions to encompass managing all aspects of life, including time and talent. This shift in mindset is crucial for nonprofit leaders, who often operate under stress and scarcity thinking.

We explored how to discover our purpose and calling, with Larry emphasizing the importance of aligning our work with our innate strengths rather than merely fulfilling job roles. He also addressed the high burnout rates among leaders and offered practical advice on embracing the freedom to fail, which can foster a culture of innovation and resilience.

Larry's perspective on abundance and contentment challenged conventional views, reminding us that true abundance is not defined by material wealth but by the richness of our experiences and relationships. He encouraged listeners to cultivate a mindset of contentment, which is a choice rather than a circumstance.

As we wrapped up, Larry introduced his book, "Intentional Living and Giving," which serves as a guide for individuals and leaders seeking to thrive in their stewardship roles. He also provided a valuable resource in the form of a Personal Stewardship Inventory, allowing listeners to evaluate their own stewardship practices.

This episode was a treasure trove of wisdom, and I hope our audience walks away inspired to lead with purpose and embrace the journey from survival to thriving. Thank you for joining us and be sure to check out Larry's resources at LarryOnan.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, we had the privilege of speaking with Larry Onan, a seasoned voice in Christian stewardship with over 50 years of experience. Our conversation centered around the vital theme of moving from surviving to thriving, emphasizing the importance of living and leading with purpose, clarity, and commitment.</p>
<p>Larry shared his insights on the difference between merely surviving—waking up each day without direction—and truly thriving, which involves embracing life with joy and purpose. He highlighted the concept of stewardship, explaining that it extends beyond financial contributions to encompass managing all aspects of life, including time and talent. This shift in mindset is crucial for nonprofit leaders, who often operate under stress and scarcity thinking.</p>
<p>We explored how to discover our purpose and calling, with Larry emphasizing the importance of aligning our work with our innate strengths rather than merely fulfilling job roles. He also addressed the high burnout rates among leaders and offered practical advice on embracing the freedom to fail, which can foster a culture of innovation and resilience.</p>
<p>Larry's perspective on abundance and contentment challenged conventional views, reminding us that true abundance is not defined by material wealth but by the richness of our experiences and relationships. He encouraged listeners to cultivate a mindset of contentment, which is a choice rather than a circumstance.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Larry introduced his book, "Intentional Living and Giving," which serves as a guide for individuals and leaders seeking to thrive in their stewardship roles. He also provided a valuable resource in the form of a Personal Stewardship Inventory, allowing listeners to evaluate their own stewardship practices.</p>
<p>This episode was a treasure trove of wisdom, and I hope our audience walks away inspired to lead with purpose and embrace the journey from survival to thriving. Thank you for joining us and be sure to check out Larry's resources at <a href="https://larryonan.com/">LarryOnan.com.</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1571</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[5b8ce6a4-27b8-11f1-bd2e-237f39031081]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2042312007.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Inner Game of Leadership: Rewiring Success from the Inside Out</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/03/17/the-inner-game-o…m-the-inside-out/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou sits down with Dr. Ron Stotts—executive coach, leadership mentor, and transformational guide—to explore the often‑ignored internal dynamics that shape how leaders think, decide, and act. While most leadership development focuses on strategy, skills, and systems, Dr. Stotts argues that the real driver of performance is the leader’s internal operating system: their awareness, beliefs, patterns, and emotional regulation.

Drawing from decades of work in neuroscience, mindfulness, and leadership psychology, Dr. Stotts explains how subconscious childhood strategies become adult leadership saboteurs—fueling perfectionism, over‑control, burnout, and fear‑based decision‑making. He introduces the concept of Big Mind, a state of integrated whole‑brain thinking that expands clarity, creativity, and presence.

Listeners will learn why breath is the earliest indicator of internal alignment, how awareness becomes the ceiling of leadership impact, and why nonprofit leaders—who carry emotional weight and mission pressure—must cultivate inner resilience to lead effectively. Dr. Stotts also shares his STOP Process, a simple but powerful tool for staying grounded in high‑stakes moments like board meetings.

This conversation reframes leadership from the inside out, offering practical insights for anyone seeking to lead with more clarity, confidence, and conscious presence.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2026 18:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Inner Game of Leadership: Rewiring Success from the Inside Out</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/28d42da4-1f10-11f1-8c1f-0f3dbbf46c35/image/d135b4ba6299dc0b59760e4bfdd4cb1b.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Rewiring Success: Breaking Old Patterns and Leading with Big Mind</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou sits down with Dr. Ron Stotts—executive coach, leadership mentor, and transformational guide—to explore the often‑ignored internal dynamics that shape how leaders think, decide, and act. While most leadership development focuses on strategy, skills, and systems, Dr. Stotts argues that the real driver of performance is the leader’s internal operating system: their awareness, beliefs, patterns, and emotional regulation.

Drawing from decades of work in neuroscience, mindfulness, and leadership psychology, Dr. Stotts explains how subconscious childhood strategies become adult leadership saboteurs—fueling perfectionism, over‑control, burnout, and fear‑based decision‑making. He introduces the concept of Big Mind, a state of integrated whole‑brain thinking that expands clarity, creativity, and presence.

Listeners will learn why breath is the earliest indicator of internal alignment, how awareness becomes the ceiling of leadership impact, and why nonprofit leaders—who carry emotional weight and mission pressure—must cultivate inner resilience to lead effectively. Dr. Stotts also shares his STOP Process, a simple but powerful tool for staying grounded in high‑stakes moments like board meetings.

This conversation reframes leadership from the inside out, offering practical insights for anyone seeking to lead with more clarity, confidence, and conscious presence.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em>, Hugh Ballou sits down with Dr. Ron Stotts—executive coach, leadership mentor, and transformational guide—to explore the often‑ignored internal dynamics that shape how leaders think, decide, and act. While most leadership development focuses on strategy, skills, and systems, Dr. Stotts argues that the real driver of performance is the leader’s internal operating system: their awareness, beliefs, patterns, and emotional regulation.</p>
<p>Drawing from decades of work in neuroscience, mindfulness, and leadership psychology, Dr. Stotts explains how subconscious childhood strategies become adult leadership saboteurs—fueling perfectionism, over‑control, burnout, and fear‑based decision‑making. He introduces the concept of <em>Big Mind</em>, a state of integrated whole‑brain thinking that expands clarity, creativity, and presence.</p>
<p>Listeners will learn why breath is the earliest indicator of internal alignment, how awareness becomes the ceiling of leadership impact, and why nonprofit leaders—who carry emotional weight and mission pressure—must cultivate inner resilience to lead effectively. Dr. Stotts also shares his STOP Process, a simple but powerful tool for staying grounded in high‑stakes moments like board meetings.</p>
<p>This conversation reframes leadership from the inside out, offering practical insights for anyone seeking to lead with more clarity, confidence, and conscious presence.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1720</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[28d42da4-1f10-11f1-8c1f-0f3dbbf46c35]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5734015581.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Power of Intentional Leadership: Elevating Yourself to Elevate Others</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/03/10/when-work-works-building-the-kind-of-culture-people-dont-want-to-leave/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming Tamian Dysart, a leadership speaker, entrepreneur, and founder of the Elevate You platform. Tamian's work centers on personal transformation, intentional leadership, and fostering healthy cultures within organizations. Our conversation delved into how leaders can elevate themselves to uplift their teams, organizations, and communities.

Tamian shared his personal journey, which began with over 15 years in corporate America, where he learned valuable lessons about leadership—often by observing what not to do. A pivotal moment in his life came when he discovered the works of John Maxwell, which inspired him to focus on personal development and culture-building. He highlighted a significant achievement at Capital One, where he reduced employee turnover from 33% to an astonishing 6% in just 18 months by investing in personal development and culture.

We explored the concept of "elevate," which Tamian defines as personal empowerment. He emphasized the importance of intentionality in our thoughts and actions, noting that many people live on autopilot, allowing their thoughts to dictate their emotions and actions. By elevating our thinking, we can create a positive cycle that leads to better outcomes.

Tamian also addressed common myths and barriers to growth, particularly in the nonprofit sector, where burnout and a lack of investment in personal development can hinder impact. He stressed that leaders must prioritize their own growth to effectively lead others and fulfill their missions.

Throughout the episode, we discussed the significance of discipline and intentionality in achieving personal and organizational success. Tamian encouraged listeners to start small, focusing on one new habit at a time to build momentum and transform their lives.

Finally, we touched on the importance of culture in organizations, describing it as currency that can either elevate or diminish the workplace experience. Tamian's insights on leadership, personal growth, and culture are not only relevant for nonprofit leaders but for anyone looking to make a meaningful impact in their communities.

I encourage our listeners to check out Tamian's book, "Elevate," and visit his website, Think3D, for more resources on transforming workplace culture and personal development. Thank you for joining us for this inspiring conversation!

More at https://letsthink3d.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2026 19:42:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Power of Intentional Leadership: Elevating Yourself to Elevate Others</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/4ffa150a-1cb9-11f1-80f1-bb7b1cb6a049/image/4a6cb4c721613b7a449a18d435a2cac6.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>When Work Works: Building the Kind of Culture People Don’t Want to Leave</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming Tamian Dysart, a leadership speaker, entrepreneur, and founder of the Elevate You platform. Tamian's work centers on personal transformation, intentional leadership, and fostering healthy cultures within organizations. Our conversation delved into how leaders can elevate themselves to uplift their teams, organizations, and communities.

Tamian shared his personal journey, which began with over 15 years in corporate America, where he learned valuable lessons about leadership—often by observing what not to do. A pivotal moment in his life came when he discovered the works of John Maxwell, which inspired him to focus on personal development and culture-building. He highlighted a significant achievement at Capital One, where he reduced employee turnover from 33% to an astonishing 6% in just 18 months by investing in personal development and culture.

We explored the concept of "elevate," which Tamian defines as personal empowerment. He emphasized the importance of intentionality in our thoughts and actions, noting that many people live on autopilot, allowing their thoughts to dictate their emotions and actions. By elevating our thinking, we can create a positive cycle that leads to better outcomes.

Tamian also addressed common myths and barriers to growth, particularly in the nonprofit sector, where burnout and a lack of investment in personal development can hinder impact. He stressed that leaders must prioritize their own growth to effectively lead others and fulfill their missions.

Throughout the episode, we discussed the significance of discipline and intentionality in achieving personal and organizational success. Tamian encouraged listeners to start small, focusing on one new habit at a time to build momentum and transform their lives.

Finally, we touched on the importance of culture in organizations, describing it as currency that can either elevate or diminish the workplace experience. Tamian's insights on leadership, personal growth, and culture are not only relevant for nonprofit leaders but for anyone looking to make a meaningful impact in their communities.

I encourage our listeners to check out Tamian's book, "Elevate," and visit his website, Think3D, for more resources on transforming workplace culture and personal development. Thank you for joining us for this inspiring conversation!

More at https://letsthink3d.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming Tamian Dysart, a leadership speaker, entrepreneur, and founder of the Elevate You platform. Tamian's work centers on personal transformation, intentional leadership, and fostering healthy cultures within organizations. Our conversation delved into how leaders can elevate themselves to uplift their teams, organizations, and communities.</p>
<p>Tamian shared his personal journey, which began with over 15 years in corporate America, where he learned valuable lessons about leadership—often by observing what not to do. A pivotal moment in his life came when he discovered the works of John Maxwell, which inspired him to focus on personal development and culture-building. He highlighted a significant achievement at Capital One, where he reduced employee turnover from 33% to an astonishing 6% in just 18 months by investing in personal development and culture.</p>
<p>We explored the concept of "elevate," which Tamian defines as personal empowerment. He emphasized the importance of intentionality in our thoughts and actions, noting that many people live on autopilot, allowing their thoughts to dictate their emotions and actions. By elevating our thinking, we can create a positive cycle that leads to better outcomes.</p>
<p>Tamian also addressed common myths and barriers to growth, particularly in the nonprofit sector, where burnout and a lack of investment in personal development can hinder impact. He stressed that leaders must prioritize their own growth to effectively lead others and fulfill their missions.</p>
<p>Throughout the episode, we discussed the significance of discipline and intentionality in achieving personal and organizational success. Tamian encouraged listeners to start small, focusing on one new habit at a time to build momentum and transform their lives.</p>
<p>Finally, we touched on the importance of culture in organizations, describing it as currency that can either elevate or diminish the workplace experience. Tamian's insights on leadership, personal growth, and culture are not only relevant for nonprofit leaders but for anyone looking to make a meaningful impact in their communities.</p>
<p>I encourage our listeners to check out Tamian's book, "Elevate," and visit his website, Think3D, for more resources on transforming workplace culture and personal development. Thank you for joining us for this inspiring conversation!</p>
<p>More at <a href="https://letsthink3d.com/"><strong>https://letsthink3d.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1608</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[4ffa150a-1cb9-11f1-80f1-bb7b1cb6a049]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4356272529.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Easy Hard vs Hard Hard: Finding Work that Matters</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/03/03/easy-hard-vs-hard-hard-finding-work-that-matters-and-freeing-yourself-of-working-for-the-approval-of-others/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the privilege of speaking with Dr. Bobby Shelton, the creator of the "Easy Hard versus Hard Hard" framework. Bobby challenges nonprofit leaders and clergy to reflect on the nature of their work, distinguishing between the busy, often unfulfilling tasks that he refers to as "easy hard," and the deeper, transformative work that he calls "hard hard."

Bobby shared his personal journey as a leader who, despite outward success, felt empty and unfulfilled. He emphasized that easy hard involves chasing metrics, external validation, and the relentless grind of busyness, while hard hard focuses on self-awareness, intrinsic motivation, and meaningful impact. This distinction is crucial for nonprofit leaders who often find themselves overwhelmed and burned out.

Throughout our conversation, we explored how societal pressures to be productive can create the illusion of progress, leading to exhaustion and a disconnect from our true mission. Bobby encouraged listeners to pause and reflect on their motivations, asking themselves whether their current work aligns with their true selves and passions.

We discussed practical steps for moving from easy hard to hard hard, including the importance of self-leadership and the need to prioritize personal well-being. Bobby's insights serve as a powerful reminder that the work we do in the nonprofit sector matters too much to settle for mere activity that drains meaning from our mission.

As we wrapped up, Bobby shared resources for further exploration, including his book, "Easy Hard versus Hard Hard," and his evolving website, which will continue to provide valuable content for leaders seeking to make a lasting impact. This episode is a call to action for all nonprofit leaders to choose purpose over approval and intention over exhaustion.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2026 22:05:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Easy Hard vs Hard Hard: Finding Work that Matters</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/12309c7e-174d-11f1-a789-57df79add6a8/image/561ef30fb47c5ebb61e74e296dcad3d7.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Breaking the Cycle of Busy: How to Lead with Intention and Impact</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the privilege of speaking with Dr. Bobby Shelton, the creator of the "Easy Hard versus Hard Hard" framework. Bobby challenges nonprofit leaders and clergy to reflect on the nature of their work, distinguishing between the busy, often unfulfilling tasks that he refers to as "easy hard," and the deeper, transformative work that he calls "hard hard."

Bobby shared his personal journey as a leader who, despite outward success, felt empty and unfulfilled. He emphasized that easy hard involves chasing metrics, external validation, and the relentless grind of busyness, while hard hard focuses on self-awareness, intrinsic motivation, and meaningful impact. This distinction is crucial for nonprofit leaders who often find themselves overwhelmed and burned out.

Throughout our conversation, we explored how societal pressures to be productive can create the illusion of progress, leading to exhaustion and a disconnect from our true mission. Bobby encouraged listeners to pause and reflect on their motivations, asking themselves whether their current work aligns with their true selves and passions.

We discussed practical steps for moving from easy hard to hard hard, including the importance of self-leadership and the need to prioritize personal well-being. Bobby's insights serve as a powerful reminder that the work we do in the nonprofit sector matters too much to settle for mere activity that drains meaning from our mission.

As we wrapped up, Bobby shared resources for further exploration, including his book, "Easy Hard versus Hard Hard," and his evolving website, which will continue to provide valuable content for leaders seeking to make a lasting impact. This episode is a call to action for all nonprofit leaders to choose purpose over approval and intention over exhaustion.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the privilege of speaking with Dr. Bobby Shelton, the creator of the "Easy Hard versus Hard Hard" framework. Bobby challenges nonprofit leaders and clergy to reflect on the nature of their work, distinguishing between the busy, often unfulfilling tasks that he refers to as "easy hard," and the deeper, transformative work that he calls "hard hard."</p>
<p>Bobby shared his personal journey as a leader who, despite outward success, felt empty and unfulfilled. He emphasized that easy hard involves chasing metrics, external validation, and the relentless grind of busyness, while hard hard focuses on self-awareness, intrinsic motivation, and meaningful impact. This distinction is crucial for nonprofit leaders who often find themselves overwhelmed and burned out.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, we explored how societal pressures to be productive can create the illusion of progress, leading to exhaustion and a disconnect from our true mission. Bobby encouraged listeners to pause and reflect on their motivations, asking themselves whether their current work aligns with their true selves and passions.</p>
<p>We discussed practical steps for moving from easy hard to hard hard, including the importance of self-leadership and the need to prioritize personal well-being. Bobby's insights serve as a powerful reminder that the work we do in the nonprofit sector matters too much to settle for mere activity that drains meaning from our mission.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Bobby shared resources for further exploration, including his book, "Easy Hard versus Hard Hard," and his evolving website, which will continue to provide valuable content for leaders seeking to make a lasting impact. This episode is a call to action for all nonprofit leaders to choose purpose over approval and intention over exhaustion.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1554</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[12309c7e-174d-11f1-a789-57df79add6a8]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7365447041.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Nonprofits and IT: Empowering Purpose with Technology</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/02/24/nonprofits-and-it-empowering-purpose-with-technology/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming Luke Williamson, a leader in managed IT services and cybersecurity, and the driving force behind Accurate Network Services. Our conversation centered around the intersection of nonprofits and technology, emphasizing how IT can empower organizations to fulfill their missions more effectively.

Luke shared his passion for working with nonprofits, highlighting the unique challenges they face, such as inconsistent funding, talent shortages, and fragmentation within the sector. He pointed out that many nonprofits struggle with a misalignment between their technology and their core mission, which can hinder their impact.

We delved into the importance of a people-centered approach to technology. Luke emphasized that technology should not be viewed as a replacement for human interaction but as a tool that enhances relationships and service delivery. He encouraged nonprofit leaders to start with their mission and the needs of their people before diving into technology solutions.

Throughout our discussion, Luke provided valuable insights into the fundamentals of effective technology use, including the importance of data collection and analysis for decision-making. He also addressed common misconceptions about technology, urging leaders to view it as an investment rather than an expense.

We touched on the critical topic of cybersecurity, discussing how organizations can protect themselves from threats without incurring exorbitant costs. Luke highlighted the necessity of cybersecurity training for staff and the importance of having breach detection systems in place.

In closing, Luke offered practical advice for nonprofit leaders feeling overwhelmed by technology decisions. He encouraged them to focus on their mission, gather feedback from their teams, and collaborate with IT professionals to find the best solutions tailored to their needs.

This episode was a reminder of the vital role that technology plays in enhancing the effectiveness of nonprofits and the importance of aligning it with their mission. I hope our listeners find Luke's insights as inspiring and informative as I did!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2026 20:27:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Nonprofits and IT: Empowering Purpose with Technology</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/3a540e2c-11bf-11f1-b64b-9f27e468073d/image/8ddb72004a74d1549546c0857b003f58.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Empowering Nonprofits: The Intersection of IT and Mission-Driven Work with Luke Williamson</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming Luke Williamson, a leader in managed IT services and cybersecurity, and the driving force behind Accurate Network Services. Our conversation centered around the intersection of nonprofits and technology, emphasizing how IT can empower organizations to fulfill their missions more effectively.

Luke shared his passion for working with nonprofits, highlighting the unique challenges they face, such as inconsistent funding, talent shortages, and fragmentation within the sector. He pointed out that many nonprofits struggle with a misalignment between their technology and their core mission, which can hinder their impact.

We delved into the importance of a people-centered approach to technology. Luke emphasized that technology should not be viewed as a replacement for human interaction but as a tool that enhances relationships and service delivery. He encouraged nonprofit leaders to start with their mission and the needs of their people before diving into technology solutions.

Throughout our discussion, Luke provided valuable insights into the fundamentals of effective technology use, including the importance of data collection and analysis for decision-making. He also addressed common misconceptions about technology, urging leaders to view it as an investment rather than an expense.

We touched on the critical topic of cybersecurity, discussing how organizations can protect themselves from threats without incurring exorbitant costs. Luke highlighted the necessity of cybersecurity training for staff and the importance of having breach detection systems in place.

In closing, Luke offered practical advice for nonprofit leaders feeling overwhelmed by technology decisions. He encouraged them to focus on their mission, gather feedback from their teams, and collaborate with IT professionals to find the best solutions tailored to their needs.

This episode was a reminder of the vital role that technology plays in enhancing the effectiveness of nonprofits and the importance of aligning it with their mission. I hope our listeners find Luke's insights as inspiring and informative as I did!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming Luke Williamson, a leader in managed IT services and cybersecurity, and the driving force behind Accurate Network Services. Our conversation centered around the intersection of nonprofits and technology, emphasizing how IT can empower organizations to fulfill their missions more effectively.</p>
<p>Luke shared his passion for working with nonprofits, highlighting the unique challenges they face, such as inconsistent funding, talent shortages, and fragmentation within the sector. He pointed out that many nonprofits struggle with a misalignment between their technology and their core mission, which can hinder their impact.</p>
<p>We delved into the importance of a people-centered approach to technology. Luke emphasized that technology should not be viewed as a replacement for human interaction but as a tool that enhances relationships and service delivery. He encouraged nonprofit leaders to start with their mission and the needs of their people before diving into technology solutions.</p>
<p>Throughout our discussion, Luke provided valuable insights into the fundamentals of effective technology use, including the importance of data collection and analysis for decision-making. He also addressed common misconceptions about technology, urging leaders to view it as an investment rather than an expense.</p>
<p>We touched on the critical topic of cybersecurity, discussing how organizations can protect themselves from threats without incurring exorbitant costs. Luke highlighted the necessity of cybersecurity training for staff and the importance of having breach detection systems in place.</p>
<p>In closing, Luke offered practical advice for nonprofit leaders feeling overwhelmed by technology decisions. He encouraged them to focus on their mission, gather feedback from their teams, and collaborate with IT professionals to find the best solutions tailored to their needs.</p>
<p>This episode was a reminder of the vital role that technology plays in enhancing the effectiveness of nonprofits and the importance of aligning it with their mission. I hope our listeners find Luke's insights as inspiring and informative as I did!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1609</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[3a540e2c-11bf-11f1-b64b-9f27e468073d]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3582585158.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Serve to Lead. Coach to Serve.</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/02/17/serve-to-lead-coach-to-serve/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, host Hugh Ballou interviews leadership coach and author Greg Guliano about the principles of service-based leadership and enabling positive transformation in organizations.

Greg explains that leadership is not about authority or control but about creating the conditions for people to succeed. He emphasizes that teams do not work for leaders—they work with them. The leader’s responsibility is to care for people, unlock their talent, and help them grow from good to better over time.

The conversation highlights the idea that organizations are transformed when teams are transformed, and teams are transformed when individuals grow in confidence, competence, and self-awareness. Greg stresses that leaders must shift from directing people to coaching them, helping individuals reach their potential rather than simply telling them what to do.

Hugh and Greg also discuss the difference between being authoritative and authoritarian. Effective leaders provide clarity, direction, and standards while still empowering people to contribute their insights, creativity, and initiative.

A key theme of the episode is that leadership is ultimately about service. By focusing on the growth, engagement, and success of others, leaders create cultures where people willingly and repeatedly contribute at a high level. This approach leads to stronger teams, healthier organizations, and more sustainable results.

This episode offers practical insights for nonprofit leaders, board members, and mission-driven professionals who want to build stronger teams, increase engagement, and lead with clarity, purpose, and service.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2026 22:44:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Serve to Lead. Coach to Serve.</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/3c20316c-0c52-11f1-b1b0-9f03a15619cc/image/3f739bcb8dbae893fb7e68c3cdd5a475.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle></itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, host Hugh Ballou interviews leadership coach and author Greg Guliano about the principles of service-based leadership and enabling positive transformation in organizations.

Greg explains that leadership is not about authority or control but about creating the conditions for people to succeed. He emphasizes that teams do not work for leaders—they work with them. The leader’s responsibility is to care for people, unlock their talent, and help them grow from good to better over time.

The conversation highlights the idea that organizations are transformed when teams are transformed, and teams are transformed when individuals grow in confidence, competence, and self-awareness. Greg stresses that leaders must shift from directing people to coaching them, helping individuals reach their potential rather than simply telling them what to do.

Hugh and Greg also discuss the difference between being authoritative and authoritarian. Effective leaders provide clarity, direction, and standards while still empowering people to contribute their insights, creativity, and initiative.

A key theme of the episode is that leadership is ultimately about service. By focusing on the growth, engagement, and success of others, leaders create cultures where people willingly and repeatedly contribute at a high level. This approach leads to stronger teams, healthier organizations, and more sustainable results.

This episode offers practical insights for nonprofit leaders, board members, and mission-driven professionals who want to build stronger teams, increase engagement, and lead with clarity, purpose, and service.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, host Hugh Ballou interviews leadership coach and author Greg Guliano about the principles of service-based leadership and enabling positive transformation in organizations.</p>
<p>Greg explains that leadership is not about authority or control but about creating the conditions for people to succeed. He emphasizes that teams do not work for leaders—they work with them. The leader’s responsibility is to care for people, unlock their talent, and help them grow from good to better over time.</p>
<p>The conversation highlights the idea that organizations are transformed when teams are transformed, and teams are transformed when individuals grow in confidence, competence, and self-awareness. Greg stresses that leaders must shift from directing people to coaching them, helping individuals reach their potential rather than simply telling them what to do.</p>
<p>Hugh and Greg also discuss the difference between being authoritative and authoritarian. Effective leaders provide clarity, direction, and standards while still empowering people to contribute their insights, creativity, and initiative.</p>
<p>A key theme of the episode is that leadership is ultimately about service. By focusing on the growth, engagement, and success of others, leaders create cultures where people willingly and repeatedly contribute at a high level. This approach leads to stronger teams, healthier organizations, and more sustainable results.</p>
<p>This episode offers practical insights for nonprofit leaders, board members, and mission-driven professionals who want to build stronger teams, increase engagement, and lead with clarity, purpose, and service.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1699</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[3c20316c-0c52-11f1-b1b0-9f03a15619cc]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4302282582.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Growth Code: Mastering Audiences, Metrics and the Science of Sustainable Revenue</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/02/10/the-nonprofit-growth-code-mastering-audiences-metrics-and-the-science-of-sustainable-revenue/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Ralph Vasami, a seasoned expert in nonprofit management with a rich corporate background. Our discussion centered around the concept of the "Nonprofit Growth Code," focusing on mastering audiences, metrics, and the science of sustainable revenue.

Ralph shared his extensive experience working with various nonprofit organizations since 1977, emphasizing the importance of understanding different audience segments—corporate donors, individual donors, and foundations. He highlighted how each group has unique expectations and metrics for funding, which nonprofits must recognize to effectively engage and communicate with them.

We delved into the significance of segmenting audiences rather than relying on a one-size-fits-all approach. Ralph explained that corporate sponsors look for alignment with their mission and inspiring outcomes, while individual donors are focused on the specific impact of the nonprofit's work. He stressed the necessity of building relationships and maintaining communication with donors to ensure ongoing support.

Metrics were another key topic, as we discussed the importance of measuring the right outcomes to demonstrate the effectiveness of nonprofit initiatives. Ralph pointed out that many organizations often overlook the rigorous requirements of grant applications, which can serve as valuable learning experiences to enhance their fundability.

Sustainability emerged as a critical theme, with Ralph emphasizing the need for nonprofits to diversify their revenue streams. He illustrated this with examples from the COVID-19 pandemic, where organizations heavily reliant on a single source of income faced significant challenges. Diversification not only strengthens financial stability but also reassures potential funders that the organization is sustainable.

Finally, we touched on the leadership challenges in engaging boards, staff, and volunteers in these processes. Ralph advocated for ongoing education and training for board members to ensure they understand their roles and responsibilities in supporting the nonprofit's mission.

Overall, this episode provided invaluable insights into the complexities of nonprofit funding and the strategies necessary for growth and sustainability. I encourage our listeners to reflect on these themes and consider how they can apply them to their own organizations. For those looking to dive deeper, a full transcript of our conversation is available at nonprofitexchange.org. Thank you for joining us!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2026 22:49:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Nonprofit Growth Code: Mastering Audiences, Metrics and the Science of Sustainable Revenue</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/d175a7a4-06d2-11f1-a735-9b964e60083b/image/d6320e96701fd41fc71b4c5d32f2424a.jpg?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Mastering Audiences and Metrics: A Guide to Nonprofit Fundraising</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Ralph Vasami, a seasoned expert in nonprofit management with a rich corporate background. Our discussion centered around the concept of the "Nonprofit Growth Code," focusing on mastering audiences, metrics, and the science of sustainable revenue.

Ralph shared his extensive experience working with various nonprofit organizations since 1977, emphasizing the importance of understanding different audience segments—corporate donors, individual donors, and foundations. He highlighted how each group has unique expectations and metrics for funding, which nonprofits must recognize to effectively engage and communicate with them.

We delved into the significance of segmenting audiences rather than relying on a one-size-fits-all approach. Ralph explained that corporate sponsors look for alignment with their mission and inspiring outcomes, while individual donors are focused on the specific impact of the nonprofit's work. He stressed the necessity of building relationships and maintaining communication with donors to ensure ongoing support.

Metrics were another key topic, as we discussed the importance of measuring the right outcomes to demonstrate the effectiveness of nonprofit initiatives. Ralph pointed out that many organizations often overlook the rigorous requirements of grant applications, which can serve as valuable learning experiences to enhance their fundability.

Sustainability emerged as a critical theme, with Ralph emphasizing the need for nonprofits to diversify their revenue streams. He illustrated this with examples from the COVID-19 pandemic, where organizations heavily reliant on a single source of income faced significant challenges. Diversification not only strengthens financial stability but also reassures potential funders that the organization is sustainable.

Finally, we touched on the leadership challenges in engaging boards, staff, and volunteers in these processes. Ralph advocated for ongoing education and training for board members to ensure they understand their roles and responsibilities in supporting the nonprofit's mission.

Overall, this episode provided invaluable insights into the complexities of nonprofit funding and the strategies necessary for growth and sustainability. I encourage our listeners to reflect on these themes and consider how they can apply them to their own organizations. For those looking to dive deeper, a full transcript of our conversation is available at nonprofitexchange.org. Thank you for joining us!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Ralph Vasami, a seasoned expert in nonprofit management with a rich corporate background. Our discussion centered around the concept of the "Nonprofit Growth Code," focusing on mastering audiences, metrics, and the science of sustainable revenue.</p>
<p>Ralph shared his extensive experience working with various nonprofit organizations since 1977, emphasizing the importance of understanding different audience segments—corporate donors, individual donors, and foundations. He highlighted how each group has unique expectations and metrics for funding, which nonprofits must recognize to effectively engage and communicate with them.</p>
<p>We delved into the significance of segmenting audiences rather than relying on a one-size-fits-all approach. Ralph explained that corporate sponsors look for alignment with their mission and inspiring outcomes, while individual donors are focused on the specific impact of the nonprofit's work. He stressed the necessity of building relationships and maintaining communication with donors to ensure ongoing support.</p>
<p>Metrics were another key topic, as we discussed the importance of measuring the right outcomes to demonstrate the effectiveness of nonprofit initiatives. Ralph pointed out that many organizations often overlook the rigorous requirements of grant applications, which can serve as valuable learning experiences to enhance their fundability.</p>
<p>Sustainability emerged as a critical theme, with Ralph emphasizing the need for nonprofits to diversify their revenue streams. He illustrated this with examples from the COVID-19 pandemic, where organizations heavily reliant on a single source of income faced significant challenges. Diversification not only strengthens financial stability but also reassures potential funders that the organization is sustainable.</p>
<p>Finally, we touched on the leadership challenges in engaging boards, staff, and volunteers in these processes. Ralph advocated for ongoing education and training for board members to ensure they understand their roles and responsibilities in supporting the nonprofit's mission.</p>
<p>Overall, this episode provided invaluable insights into the complexities of nonprofit funding and the strategies necessary for growth and sustainability. I encourage our listeners to reflect on these themes and consider how they can apply them to their own organizations. For those looking to dive deeper, a full transcript of our conversation is available at nonprofitexchange.org. Thank you for joining us!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1712</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d175a7a4-06d2-11f1-a735-9b964e60083b]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2429561493.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Unleashing Hidden Potential: The Power of Entrepreneurship for All</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/02/03/unleashing-hidden-potential-the-power-of-entrepreneurship-for-all/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. John Bamford, co-author of the book Race to Innovation: Unleashing the Power of Entrepreneurship for Everyone. Dr. Bamford challenges the common belief that America lacks innovative ideas, arguing instead that we face an innovation deficit due to the neglect of entrepreneurial talent in overlooked communities, particularly among Black and marginalized groups.

Throughout our conversation, we explored the premise that entrepreneurship and innovation thrive on recognizing hidden potential in individuals and communities that are often ignored. Dr. Bamford shared insights from his extensive experience in corporate leadership and his work with diverse teams, emphasizing that diverse perspectives lead to greater innovation and success.

We discussed the concept of America's innovation deficit, highlighting how redirecting resources to underserved communities can benefit the entire economy rather than detract from it. Dr. Bamford provided compelling examples, including a successful initiative in Western North Carolina that addressed the opioid crisis by leveraging local knowledge and expertise.

The discussion also touched on the importance of ownership and generational wealth, illustrating how empowering individuals from marginalized communities to become business owners can lead to transformative change. Dr. Bamford emphasized the need for nonprofits and community organizations to adopt innovative approaches that recognize and nurture potential in all individuals.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Bamford encouraged listeners to approach interactions with an open mind, avoiding assumptions about people's backgrounds and capabilities. This mindset can unlock extraordinary opportunities for collaboration and growth.

This episode serves as a powerful reminder that the future of our economy and communities lies in our ability to recognize, support, and invest in the untapped potential that exists all around us. I hope you find inspiration in Dr. Bamford's insights and consider how you can contribute to fostering innovation in your own community.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2026 20:57:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Unleashing Hidden Potential: The Power of Entrepreneurship for All</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Rethinking Innovation: How Diverse Perspectives Drive Economic Growth</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. John Bamford, co-author of the book Race to Innovation: Unleashing the Power of Entrepreneurship for Everyone. Dr. Bamford challenges the common belief that America lacks innovative ideas, arguing instead that we face an innovation deficit due to the neglect of entrepreneurial talent in overlooked communities, particularly among Black and marginalized groups.

Throughout our conversation, we explored the premise that entrepreneurship and innovation thrive on recognizing hidden potential in individuals and communities that are often ignored. Dr. Bamford shared insights from his extensive experience in corporate leadership and his work with diverse teams, emphasizing that diverse perspectives lead to greater innovation and success.

We discussed the concept of America's innovation deficit, highlighting how redirecting resources to underserved communities can benefit the entire economy rather than detract from it. Dr. Bamford provided compelling examples, including a successful initiative in Western North Carolina that addressed the opioid crisis by leveraging local knowledge and expertise.

The discussion also touched on the importance of ownership and generational wealth, illustrating how empowering individuals from marginalized communities to become business owners can lead to transformative change. Dr. Bamford emphasized the need for nonprofits and community organizations to adopt innovative approaches that recognize and nurture potential in all individuals.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Bamford encouraged listeners to approach interactions with an open mind, avoiding assumptions about people's backgrounds and capabilities. This mindset can unlock extraordinary opportunities for collaboration and growth.

This episode serves as a powerful reminder that the future of our economy and communities lies in our ability to recognize, support, and invest in the untapped potential that exists all around us. I hope you find inspiration in Dr. Bamford's insights and consider how you can contribute to fostering innovation in your own community.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. John Bamford, co-author of the book <em>Race to Innovation: Unleashing the Power of Entrepreneurship for Everyone</em>. Dr. Bamford challenges the common belief that America lacks innovative ideas, arguing instead that we face an innovation deficit due to the neglect of entrepreneurial talent in overlooked communities, particularly among Black and marginalized groups.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, we explored the premise that entrepreneurship and innovation thrive on recognizing hidden potential in individuals and communities that are often ignored. Dr. Bamford shared insights from his extensive experience in corporate leadership and his work with diverse teams, emphasizing that diverse perspectives lead to greater innovation and success.</p>
<p>We discussed the concept of America's innovation deficit, highlighting how redirecting resources to underserved communities can benefit the entire economy rather than detract from it. Dr. Bamford provided compelling examples, including a successful initiative in Western North Carolina that addressed the opioid crisis by leveraging local knowledge and expertise.</p>
<p>The discussion also touched on the importance of ownership and generational wealth, illustrating how empowering individuals from marginalized communities to become business owners can lead to transformative change. Dr. Bamford emphasized the need for nonprofits and community organizations to adopt innovative approaches that recognize and nurture potential in all individuals.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Dr. Bamford encouraged listeners to approach interactions with an open mind, avoiding assumptions about people's backgrounds and capabilities. This mindset can unlock extraordinary opportunities for collaboration and growth.</p>
<p>This episode serves as a powerful reminder that the future of our economy and communities lies in our ability to recognize, support, and invest in the untapped potential that exists all around us. I hope you find inspiration in Dr. Bamford's insights and consider how you can contribute to fostering innovation in your own community.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1653</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[e737ce9a-0142-11f1-9db1-43924751905a]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6511810712.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leading with Purpose: Creating High-Performance Teams</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/01/22/leading-with-purpose-creating-high-performance-teams/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Stephen Mueller, the Dean of the Music School at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. Dr. Mueller shared his unique journey, which combines his extensive background in music education and ministry, equipping him for his current leadership role.

We discussed how he has cultivated a thriving academic community rooted in excellence, collaboration, and shared purpose. Dr. Mueller emphasized the importance of relational leadership, where trust and accountability transform not only performance outcomes but also the individuals involved. He highlighted that leading with care and empowering faculty members fosters a high-performing culture.

Throughout our conversation, Dr. Mueller shared valuable insights on the constants of leadership across various sectors, including nonprofits and education. He stressed the significance of commitment to mission and the need for leaders to model values and behaviors that inspire others.

We also explored the balance between creativity and structure in leadership, noting that effective leaders must navigate both realms to achieve success. Dr. Mueller provided practical advice on handling conflict and course corrections while preserving relationships, emphasizing the importance of honest dialogue.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Mueller offered a powerful takeaway: to bloom where you are planted and serve faithfully in your current role. His wisdom and experience serve as a reminder that leadership is about the mission and the people we serve.

This episode was particularly meaningful, and I believe the insights shared by Dr. Mueller will resonate with nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills. Thank you for joining us on this journey of learning and growth!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2026 19:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Building a High-Performing Culture</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/2873d3ce-fac5-11f0-a78f-9f3b611b4981/image/17c9e26a0d360c84d8f60553d687d71d.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Empowering Creativity and Collaboration: Leadership Lessons from Dr. Stephen Müller</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Stephen Mueller, the Dean of the Music School at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. Dr. Mueller shared his unique journey, which combines his extensive background in music education and ministry, equipping him for his current leadership role.

We discussed how he has cultivated a thriving academic community rooted in excellence, collaboration, and shared purpose. Dr. Mueller emphasized the importance of relational leadership, where trust and accountability transform not only performance outcomes but also the individuals involved. He highlighted that leading with care and empowering faculty members fosters a high-performing culture.

Throughout our conversation, Dr. Mueller shared valuable insights on the constants of leadership across various sectors, including nonprofits and education. He stressed the significance of commitment to mission and the need for leaders to model values and behaviors that inspire others.

We also explored the balance between creativity and structure in leadership, noting that effective leaders must navigate both realms to achieve success. Dr. Mueller provided practical advice on handling conflict and course corrections while preserving relationships, emphasizing the importance of honest dialogue.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Mueller offered a powerful takeaway: to bloom where you are planted and serve faithfully in your current role. His wisdom and experience serve as a reminder that leadership is about the mission and the people we serve.

This episode was particularly meaningful, and I believe the insights shared by Dr. Mueller will resonate with nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills. Thank you for joining us on this journey of learning and growth!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Stephen Mueller, the Dean of the Music School at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. Dr. Mueller shared his unique journey, which combines his extensive background in music education and ministry, equipping him for his current leadership role.</p>
<p>We discussed how he has cultivated a thriving academic community rooted in excellence, collaboration, and shared purpose. Dr. Mueller emphasized the importance of relational leadership, where trust and accountability transform not only performance outcomes but also the individuals involved. He highlighted that leading with care and empowering faculty members fosters a high-performing culture.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, Dr. Mueller shared valuable insights on the constants of leadership across various sectors, including nonprofits and education. He stressed the significance of commitment to mission and the need for leaders to model values and behaviors that inspire others.</p>
<p>We also explored the balance between creativity and structure in leadership, noting that effective leaders must navigate both realms to achieve success. Dr. Mueller provided practical advice on handling conflict and course corrections while preserving relationships, emphasizing the importance of honest dialogue.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Dr. Mueller offered a powerful takeaway: to bloom where you are planted and serve faithfully in your current role. His wisdom and experience serve as a reminder that leadership is about the mission and the people we serve.</p>
<p>This episode was particularly meaningful, and I believe the insights shared by Dr. Mueller will resonate with nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills. Thank you for joining us on this journey of learning and growth!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1851</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2873d3ce-fac5-11f0-a78f-9f3b611b4981]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7861146084.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Power of 3: Lessons in Leadership</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/01/20/npe-the-power-of-3-lessons-in-leadership/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Stephen Mays, a leadership strategist, speaker, and author, about his innovative framework known as the Power of Three. Stephen's journey into leadership began at the Naval Academy, where he learned the importance of clarity and effective leadership through his experiences in military and civilian roles.

We discussed the common misconception that leadership is solely about personality and style, highlighting that true leadership is about influencing others to achieve more collectively than they could individually. Stephen emphasized the critical foundation of leadership, which consists of honesty, courage, and talent. He explained that catastrophic leadership failures often stem from a lack of these foundational elements rather than a deficiency in talent.

Stephen also addressed the challenges leaders face, particularly in the nonprofit sector, where unmet expectations can lead to significant issues. He stressed the importance of clear communication and providing the necessary resources for team members to succeed.

As we wrapped up our conversation, Stephen shared insights on the achievement level of leadership, which involves assisting, inspiring, and depending on others. He underscored that effective leadership is about making others successful and recognizing that credit and blame are part of the leader's responsibility.

For those interested in exploring Stephen's Power of Three Leadership Framework further, I encourage you to visit his website at powerof3leadership.com. This episode is a valuable resource for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and make a meaningful impact in their organizations. Thank you for joining us on The Nonprofit Exchange
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2026 22:06:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Power of 3: Lessons in Leadership</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Power of Three: A Leadership Framework for Nonprofits</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Stephen Mays, a leadership strategist, speaker, and author, about his innovative framework known as the Power of Three. Stephen's journey into leadership began at the Naval Academy, where he learned the importance of clarity and effective leadership through his experiences in military and civilian roles.

We discussed the common misconception that leadership is solely about personality and style, highlighting that true leadership is about influencing others to achieve more collectively than they could individually. Stephen emphasized the critical foundation of leadership, which consists of honesty, courage, and talent. He explained that catastrophic leadership failures often stem from a lack of these foundational elements rather than a deficiency in talent.

Stephen also addressed the challenges leaders face, particularly in the nonprofit sector, where unmet expectations can lead to significant issues. He stressed the importance of clear communication and providing the necessary resources for team members to succeed.

As we wrapped up our conversation, Stephen shared insights on the achievement level of leadership, which involves assisting, inspiring, and depending on others. He underscored that effective leadership is about making others successful and recognizing that credit and blame are part of the leader's responsibility.

For those interested in exploring Stephen's Power of Three Leadership Framework further, I encourage you to visit his website at powerof3leadership.com. This episode is a valuable resource for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and make a meaningful impact in their organizations. Thank you for joining us on The Nonprofit Exchange
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Stephen Mays, a leadership strategist, speaker, and author, about his innovative framework known as the Power of Three. Stephen's journey into leadership began at the Naval Academy, where he learned the importance of clarity and effective leadership through his experiences in military and civilian roles.</p>
<p>We discussed the common misconception that leadership is solely about personality and style, highlighting that true leadership is about influencing others to achieve more collectively than they could individually. Stephen emphasized the critical foundation of leadership, which consists of honesty, courage, and talent. He explained that catastrophic leadership failures often stem from a lack of these foundational elements rather than a deficiency in talent.</p>
<p>Stephen also addressed the challenges leaders face, particularly in the nonprofit sector, where unmet expectations can lead to significant issues. He stressed the importance of clear communication and providing the necessary resources for team members to succeed.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up our conversation, Stephen shared insights on the achievement level of leadership, which involves assisting, inspiring, and depending on others. He underscored that effective leadership is about making others successful and recognizing that credit and blame are part of the leader's responsibility.</p>
<p>For those interested in exploring Stephen's Power of Three Leadership Framework further, I encourage you to visit his website at powerof3leadership.com. This episode is a valuable resource for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and make a meaningful impact in their organizations. Thank you for joining us on The Nonprofit Exchange</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1571</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[3aa24b5c-f64c-11f0-8632-5b3d7b740ea4]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9125032938.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Empathy is a Soft Skill with Hard Results</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/01/13/empathy-is-a-soft-skill-with-hard-results/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, host Hugh Ballou sits down with Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller, founder of EQ via Empathy, to explore why empathy is not a soft leadership trait—but a strategic necessity for effective, sustainable leadership.

Melissa shares her journey from musician and educator to leadership coach, explaining how her background shaped her understanding of emotional intelligence and human connection. Together, Hugh and Melissa unpack the critical role empathy plays in nonprofit leadership, especially in mission-driven organizations where people, purpose, and performance must align.

The conversation challenges common misconceptions about empathy, reframing it as a practical leadership skill that strengthens trust, accountability, and organizational culture. Melissa explains how leaders can balance empathy with high expectations, make difficult decisions without losing humanity, and foster environments where people feel seen, valued, and motivated to contribute their best work.

Listeners will gain insights into:


  
How empathy directly impacts engagement, innovation, and results



  
Why self-empathy is foundational for healthy leadership



  
Practical ways nonprofit leaders can embed empathy into daily operations



  
How empathy supports sustainability in resource-constrained organizations




This episode offers thoughtful, actionable wisdom for nonprofit leaders, board members, and executives who want to lead with clarity, compassion, and effectiveness—without sacrificing results.

Learn more about Melissa Robinson-Winemiller and her work at https://eqviaempathy.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2026 21:17:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Empathy is a Soft Skill with Hard Results</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Self-Empathy is Not About Feeling</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, host Hugh Ballou sits down with Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller, founder of EQ via Empathy, to explore why empathy is not a soft leadership trait—but a strategic necessity for effective, sustainable leadership.

Melissa shares her journey from musician and educator to leadership coach, explaining how her background shaped her understanding of emotional intelligence and human connection. Together, Hugh and Melissa unpack the critical role empathy plays in nonprofit leadership, especially in mission-driven organizations where people, purpose, and performance must align.

The conversation challenges common misconceptions about empathy, reframing it as a practical leadership skill that strengthens trust, accountability, and organizational culture. Melissa explains how leaders can balance empathy with high expectations, make difficult decisions without losing humanity, and foster environments where people feel seen, valued, and motivated to contribute their best work.

Listeners will gain insights into:


  
How empathy directly impacts engagement, innovation, and results



  
Why self-empathy is foundational for healthy leadership



  
Practical ways nonprofit leaders can embed empathy into daily operations



  
How empathy supports sustainability in resource-constrained organizations




This episode offers thoughtful, actionable wisdom for nonprofit leaders, board members, and executives who want to lead with clarity, compassion, and effectiveness—without sacrificing results.

Learn more about Melissa Robinson-Winemiller and her work at https://eqviaempathy.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em>, host <strong>Hugh Ballou</strong> sits down with <strong>Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller</strong>, founder of <strong>EQ via Empathy</strong>, to explore why empathy is not a soft leadership trait—but a strategic necessity for effective, sustainable leadership.</p>
<p>Melissa shares her journey from musician and educator to leadership coach, explaining how her background shaped her understanding of emotional intelligence and human connection. Together, Hugh and Melissa unpack the critical role empathy plays in nonprofit leadership, especially in mission-driven organizations where people, purpose, and performance must align.</p>
<p>The conversation challenges common misconceptions about empathy, reframing it as a practical leadership skill that strengthens trust, accountability, and organizational culture. Melissa explains how leaders can balance empathy with high expectations, make difficult decisions without losing humanity, and foster environments where people feel seen, valued, and motivated to contribute their best work.</p>
<p>Listeners will gain insights into:</p>
<ul>
  <li>
<p>How empathy directly impacts engagement, innovation, and results</p>
</li>
  <li>
<p>Why self-empathy is foundational for healthy leadership</p>
</li>
  <li>
<p>Practical ways nonprofit leaders can embed empathy into daily operations</p>
</li>
  <li>
<p>How empathy supports sustainability in resource-constrained organizations</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>This episode offers thoughtful, actionable wisdom for nonprofit leaders, board members, and executives who want to lead with clarity, compassion, and effectiveness—without sacrificing results.</p>
<p>Learn more about Melissa Robinson-Winemiller and her work at <a href="https://eqviaempathy.com/?utm_source=chatgpt.com">https://eqviaempathy.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1539</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[3431ee94-f0c5-11f0-9b01-ab87d31f4f71]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4773794757.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange 2025 Highlights</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2026/01/06/the-nonprofit-exchange-2025-highlights/</link>
      <description>Inspiring Leadership Voices from The Nonprofit Exchange from 2025

Each episode of The Nonprofit Exchange highlights ideas that move leaders beyond management and into meaningful influence. The following curated insights are drawn from recent episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange, hosted by Hugh Ballou. These voices reflect diverse leadership contexts—nonprofit, entrepreneurial, servant, and transformational—yet each offers a timely reminder of what effective leadership requires today.

“Servant leadership is about aligning the heart and mind – true leadership comes from influence, not authority.”

— Kevin Wayne Johnson, “Leadership with a Servant’s Heart”

“Whether you’re making music or running a nonprofit, planning is the key to success.”

— Carter Fox, “The Sound of Strategy: Music Business Lessons”

“Culture is essentially the beliefs that govern how people behave.”

— Steve Gandara, “Unlocking Excellence: How Culture Drives Success”

“Achieving a seat on a corporate board requires intentional preparation and a clear plan.”

— Dr. Keith Dorsey, “Charting an Intentional Path to Corporate Board Service”.

“While our message remains timeless, our methods must change with the times.”

— Terry Modica, “Reaching Hearts in a Changing World”

“Leadership is an inside-out journey – if you don’t lead yourself, you can’t lead others.”

— Dr. Wayne ‘Lyte’ Brown, “Leadership from the Inside Out”

— Jeff Schreifels, “Building a Culture of Generosity”.

“Effective leadership comes down to character, competence, caring, and communication.”

— Tom Collins, “Leadership Mastery”

“Every computer we refurbish is a bridge across the digital divide.”

— Dylan Zajac, “Sustainable Solutions: Bridging the Digital Divide”

“Real change comes from lasting partnerships, not short-term fixes.”

— Nathan Walters, “Transformational Mission”

“Authentic leadership starts with knowing who you are.”

— Dr. Rick Rodriguez, “Breaking Barriers: Empowering the Next Generation”

“Effective communication requires active listening.”

— Michael Reddington, “Everyday Confessions: Disciplined Listening”

“When you heal and empower yourself, you can lead others from wholeness.”

— Dr. Lisa Cooney, “The Body of Change”

“You can’t pour from an empty cup.”

— Pankaj Singh, “Preventing Burnout Through Mindful Leadership”.

“We have to stop begging for donations and start building relationships.”

— James Meisner, “Transforming Fundraising."

“A joy-filled culture inspires engagement and creativity.”

— Heather M. Day, “Creating a Joy-Filled Culture”

“Real change means listening to the stories of those we serve.”

— Dr. Pierre Berastaín, “Leading Beyond the Buzzwords”

“Engage your board and they become your greatest allies.”

— Dr. A. Giselle Jones, “Engaging Your Board in Funds Sourcing”

“Life is not a sprint, it’s a marathon. Keep running!”

— John David Graham, “Life is a Marathon. Keep on running!””

These insights remind us that leadership is not about control or charisma, but about clarity, character, and conscious influence. As the audience for this show, may these voices encourage you to lead with intention, humility, and courage.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2026 23:15:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Nonprofit Exchange 2025 Highlights</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/39cc361c-eb56-11f0-83ee-f7ce01f25f41/image/01397432a1db1ce048f6a1de03e032d4.jpg?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Quotes to Motivate and Inspire Leaders</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Inspiring Leadership Voices from The Nonprofit Exchange from 2025

Each episode of The Nonprofit Exchange highlights ideas that move leaders beyond management and into meaningful influence. The following curated insights are drawn from recent episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange, hosted by Hugh Ballou. These voices reflect diverse leadership contexts—nonprofit, entrepreneurial, servant, and transformational—yet each offers a timely reminder of what effective leadership requires today.

“Servant leadership is about aligning the heart and mind – true leadership comes from influence, not authority.”

— Kevin Wayne Johnson, “Leadership with a Servant’s Heart”

“Whether you’re making music or running a nonprofit, planning is the key to success.”

— Carter Fox, “The Sound of Strategy: Music Business Lessons”

“Culture is essentially the beliefs that govern how people behave.”

— Steve Gandara, “Unlocking Excellence: How Culture Drives Success”

“Achieving a seat on a corporate board requires intentional preparation and a clear plan.”

— Dr. Keith Dorsey, “Charting an Intentional Path to Corporate Board Service”.

“While our message remains timeless, our methods must change with the times.”

— Terry Modica, “Reaching Hearts in a Changing World”

“Leadership is an inside-out journey – if you don’t lead yourself, you can’t lead others.”

— Dr. Wayne ‘Lyte’ Brown, “Leadership from the Inside Out”

— Jeff Schreifels, “Building a Culture of Generosity”.

“Effective leadership comes down to character, competence, caring, and communication.”

— Tom Collins, “Leadership Mastery”

“Every computer we refurbish is a bridge across the digital divide.”

— Dylan Zajac, “Sustainable Solutions: Bridging the Digital Divide”

“Real change comes from lasting partnerships, not short-term fixes.”

— Nathan Walters, “Transformational Mission”

“Authentic leadership starts with knowing who you are.”

— Dr. Rick Rodriguez, “Breaking Barriers: Empowering the Next Generation”

“Effective communication requires active listening.”

— Michael Reddington, “Everyday Confessions: Disciplined Listening”

“When you heal and empower yourself, you can lead others from wholeness.”

— Dr. Lisa Cooney, “The Body of Change”

“You can’t pour from an empty cup.”

— Pankaj Singh, “Preventing Burnout Through Mindful Leadership”.

“We have to stop begging for donations and start building relationships.”

— James Meisner, “Transforming Fundraising."

“A joy-filled culture inspires engagement and creativity.”

— Heather M. Day, “Creating a Joy-Filled Culture”

“Real change means listening to the stories of those we serve.”

— Dr. Pierre Berastaín, “Leading Beyond the Buzzwords”

“Engage your board and they become your greatest allies.”

— Dr. A. Giselle Jones, “Engaging Your Board in Funds Sourcing”

“Life is not a sprint, it’s a marathon. Keep running!”

— John David Graham, “Life is a Marathon. Keep on running!””

These insights remind us that leadership is not about control or charisma, but about clarity, character, and conscious influence. As the audience for this show, may these voices encourage you to lead with intention, humility, and courage.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Inspiring Leadership Voices from The Nonprofit Exchange from 2025</strong><br></p>
<p>Each episode of The Nonprofit Exchange highlights ideas that move leaders beyond management and into meaningful influence. The following curated insights are drawn from recent episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange, hosted by Hugh Ballou. These voices reflect diverse leadership contexts—nonprofit, entrepreneurial, servant, and transformational—yet each offers a timely reminder of what effective leadership requires today.<br></p>
<p>“Servant leadership is about aligning the heart and mind – true leadership comes from influence, not authority.”</p>
<p>— Kevin Wayne Johnson, “Leadership with a Servant’s Heart”<br></p>
<p>“Whether you’re making music or running a nonprofit, planning is the key to success.”</p>
<p>— Carter Fox, “The Sound of Strategy: Music Business Lessons”<br></p>
<p>“Culture is essentially the beliefs that govern how people behave.”</p>
<p>— Steve Gandara, “Unlocking Excellence: How Culture Drives Success”<br></p>
<p>“Achieving a seat on a corporate board requires intentional preparation and a clear plan.”</p>
<p>— Dr. Keith Dorsey, “Charting an Intentional Path to Corporate Board Service”.<br></p>
<p>“While our message remains timeless, our methods must change with the times.”</p>
<p>— Terry Modica, “Reaching Hearts in a Changing World”<br></p>
<p>“Leadership is an inside-out journey – if you don’t lead yourself, you can’t lead others.”</p>
<p>— Dr. Wayne ‘Lyte’ Brown, “Leadership from the Inside Out”<br></p>
<p>— Jeff Schreifels, “Building a Culture of Generosity”.<br></p>
<p>“Effective leadership comes down to character, competence, caring, and communication.”</p>
<p>— Tom Collins, “Leadership Mastery”</p>
<p>“Every computer we refurbish is a bridge across the digital divide.”</p>
<p>— Dylan Zajac, “Sustainable Solutions: Bridging the Digital Divide”<br></p>
<p>“Real change comes from lasting partnerships, not short-term fixes.”</p>
<p>— Nathan Walters, “Transformational Mission”<br></p>
<p>“Authentic leadership starts with knowing who you are.”</p>
<p>— Dr. Rick Rodriguez, “Breaking Barriers: Empowering the Next Generation”<br></p>
<p>“Effective communication requires active listening.”</p>
<p>— Michael Reddington, “Everyday Confessions: Disciplined Listening”<br></p>
<p>“When you heal and empower yourself, you can lead others from wholeness.”</p>
<p>— Dr. Lisa Cooney, “The Body of Change”<br></p>
<p>“You can’t pour from an empty cup.”</p>
<p>— Pankaj Singh, “Preventing Burnout Through Mindful Leadership”.<br></p>
<p>“We have to stop begging for donations and start building relationships.”</p>
<p>— James Meisner, “Transforming Fundraising."<br></p>
<p>“A joy-filled culture inspires engagement and creativity.”</p>
<p>— Heather M. Day, “Creating a Joy-Filled Culture”<br></p>
<p>“Real change means listening to the stories of those we serve.”</p>
<p>— Dr. Pierre Berastaín, “Leading Beyond the Buzzwords”<br></p>
<p>“Engage your board and they become your greatest allies.”</p>
<p>— Dr. A. Giselle Jones, “Engaging Your Board in Funds Sourcing”<br></p>
<p>“Life is not a sprint, it’s a marathon. Keep running!”</p>
<p>— John David Graham, “Life is a Marathon. Keep on running!””<br></p>
<p>These insights remind us that leadership is not about control or charisma, but about clarity, character, and conscious influence. As the audience for this show, may these voices encourage you to lead with intention, humility, and courage.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1109</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[39cc361c-eb56-11f0-83ee-f7ce01f25f41]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8436526875.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leadership with a Servant's Heart</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/12/23/leadership-with-a-servants-heart/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Kevin Wayne Johnson, founder of the Johnson Leadership Group and a nationally recognized expert in servant leadership. With over 600 interviews under my belt, I was excited to delve into the transformative power of leadership that begins with serving others.

Kevin defines servant leadership as aligning the heart and mind, emphasizing that true leadership comes from a place of influence rather than authority. He challenges the misconception that kindness equates to weakness, highlighting the importance of compassion in leadership. We discussed how effective leaders can create environments where team members feel valued and empowered to contribute their unique talents.

Throughout our conversation, Kevin shared insights on the necessity of authenticity in leadership, stating that leadership is a lifestyle rather than a role we play at work. He emphasized the importance of mind-heart alignment, where leaders must balance competence with compassion to truly connect with their teams.

We also explored the critical role of communication in building trust and relationships. Kevin pointed out that effective communication requires active listening and the ability to ensure that messages are understood, not just heard. This is vital for preventing miscommunication and fostering a collaborative environment.

As we wrapped up, Kevin introduced his latest book, "Leadership with a Servant's Heart," which focuses on the role of leaders in shaping future generations, particularly within families. He underscored the challenges leaders face today, including navigating change and managing diverse generational perspectives in the workplace.

This episode serves as a reminder that leadership is not about titles but about the impact we have on the lives of others. I encourage our listeners to visit the Johnson Leadership Group's website to learn more about Kevin's work and resources. Thank you for tuning in, and remember to keep striving to create meaningful, lasting impact in your communities.

More about Kevin’s Work: https://thejohnsonleadershipgroup.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2025 14:11:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leadership with a Servant's Heart</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/4a5a6fba-e009-11f0-96bb-3fcff162c67b/image/ef6243a4c080d7b651cfe6e574404891.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Building Trust Through Communication: The Key to Effective Leadership</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Kevin Wayne Johnson, founder of the Johnson Leadership Group and a nationally recognized expert in servant leadership. With over 600 interviews under my belt, I was excited to delve into the transformative power of leadership that begins with serving others.

Kevin defines servant leadership as aligning the heart and mind, emphasizing that true leadership comes from a place of influence rather than authority. He challenges the misconception that kindness equates to weakness, highlighting the importance of compassion in leadership. We discussed how effective leaders can create environments where team members feel valued and empowered to contribute their unique talents.

Throughout our conversation, Kevin shared insights on the necessity of authenticity in leadership, stating that leadership is a lifestyle rather than a role we play at work. He emphasized the importance of mind-heart alignment, where leaders must balance competence with compassion to truly connect with their teams.

We also explored the critical role of communication in building trust and relationships. Kevin pointed out that effective communication requires active listening and the ability to ensure that messages are understood, not just heard. This is vital for preventing miscommunication and fostering a collaborative environment.

As we wrapped up, Kevin introduced his latest book, "Leadership with a Servant's Heart," which focuses on the role of leaders in shaping future generations, particularly within families. He underscored the challenges leaders face today, including navigating change and managing diverse generational perspectives in the workplace.

This episode serves as a reminder that leadership is not about titles but about the impact we have on the lives of others. I encourage our listeners to visit the Johnson Leadership Group's website to learn more about Kevin's work and resources. Thank you for tuning in, and remember to keep striving to create meaningful, lasting impact in your communities.

More about Kevin’s Work: https://thejohnsonleadershipgroup.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Kevin Wayne Johnson, founder of the Johnson Leadership Group and a nationally recognized expert in servant leadership. With over 600 interviews under my belt, I was excited to delve into the transformative power of leadership that begins with serving others.</p>
<p>Kevin defines servant leadership as aligning the heart and mind, emphasizing that true leadership comes from a place of influence rather than authority. He challenges the misconception that kindness equates to weakness, highlighting the importance of compassion in leadership. We discussed how effective leaders can create environments where team members feel valued and empowered to contribute their unique talents.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, Kevin shared insights on the necessity of authenticity in leadership, stating that leadership is a lifestyle rather than a role we play at work. He emphasized the importance of mind-heart alignment, where leaders must balance competence with compassion to truly connect with their teams.</p>
<p>We also explored the critical role of communication in building trust and relationships. Kevin pointed out that effective communication requires active listening and the ability to ensure that messages are understood, not just heard. This is vital for preventing miscommunication and fostering a collaborative environment.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Kevin introduced his latest book, "Leadership with a Servant's Heart," which focuses on the role of leaders in shaping future generations, particularly within families. He underscored the challenges leaders face today, including navigating change and managing diverse generational perspectives in the workplace.</p>
<p>This episode serves as a reminder that leadership is not about titles but about the impact we have on the lives of others. I encourage our listeners to visit the Johnson Leadership Group's website to learn more about Kevin's work and resources. Thank you for tuning in, and remember to keep striving to create meaningful, lasting impact in your communities.</p>
<p><strong>More about Kevin’s Work</strong>: <a href="https://thejohnsonleadershipgroup.com/">https://thejohnsonleadershipgroup.com/</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1666</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[4a5a6fba-e009-11f0-96bb-3fcff162c67b]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5266824537.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Sound of Strategy: Music Business Lessons from the Soulful Traveling Spaceman Bassman</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/12/16/npe-sound-of-strategy/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Carter Fox, a multifaceted artist and strategist known as "The Soulful Traveling Spaceman Baseman." We explored the valuable lessons that nonprofit leaders can learn from the music business, including the importance of promotion, branding, and strategic planning.

Carter shared his journey from a young musician to a savvy entrepreneur, emphasizing the need to understand the business side of music early in his career. He highlighted that promotion is crucial for both musicians and nonprofit organizations, as it helps to amplify their messages and reach wider audiences. We discussed how nonprofits can effectively promote their initiatives and events, drawing parallels to how musicians prepare for album releases and tours.

Carter also introduced his book, "Music Business Basics," which provides practical strategies for independent artists and can be applied to nonprofit leadership. We delved into the significance of branding, noting that a logo is just one aspect of a broader brand identity that encompasses mission statements, values, and the overall voice of the organization.

Throughout our conversation, we touched on the importance of storytelling and demonstrating impact, as these elements are vital for engaging supporters and donors. Carter's insights on strategic planning resonated deeply, as he emphasized the need for leaders to map out their goals and involve their teams in the process.

As we wrapped up, Carter shared his upcoming projects, including a new album and a book exploring the connection between humanity and the cosmos. This episode is packed with actionable advice for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their impact while staying true to their mission. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you find inspiration in Carter's journey and insights!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2025 20:51:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Sound of Strategy: Music Business Lessons from the Soulful Traveling Spaceman Bassman</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/f3c568b4-dac0-11f0-a349-f79ca47e5cb3/image/8054a552b6d3eb42f8ff3f34c851b4a9.jpg?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Amplifying Impact: How Music Business Principles Can Transform Nonprofit Leadership</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Carter Fox, a multifaceted artist and strategist known as "The Soulful Traveling Spaceman Baseman." We explored the valuable lessons that nonprofit leaders can learn from the music business, including the importance of promotion, branding, and strategic planning.

Carter shared his journey from a young musician to a savvy entrepreneur, emphasizing the need to understand the business side of music early in his career. He highlighted that promotion is crucial for both musicians and nonprofit organizations, as it helps to amplify their messages and reach wider audiences. We discussed how nonprofits can effectively promote their initiatives and events, drawing parallels to how musicians prepare for album releases and tours.

Carter also introduced his book, "Music Business Basics," which provides practical strategies for independent artists and can be applied to nonprofit leadership. We delved into the significance of branding, noting that a logo is just one aspect of a broader brand identity that encompasses mission statements, values, and the overall voice of the organization.

Throughout our conversation, we touched on the importance of storytelling and demonstrating impact, as these elements are vital for engaging supporters and donors. Carter's insights on strategic planning resonated deeply, as he emphasized the need for leaders to map out their goals and involve their teams in the process.

As we wrapped up, Carter shared his upcoming projects, including a new album and a book exploring the connection between humanity and the cosmos. This episode is packed with actionable advice for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their impact while staying true to their mission. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you find inspiration in Carter's journey and insights!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Carter Fox, a multifaceted artist and strategist known as "The Soulful Traveling Spaceman Baseman." We explored the valuable lessons that nonprofit leaders can learn from the music business, including the importance of promotion, branding, and strategic planning.</p>
<p>Carter shared his journey from a young musician to a savvy entrepreneur, emphasizing the need to understand the business side of music early in his career. He highlighted that promotion is crucial for both musicians and nonprofit organizations, as it helps to amplify their messages and reach wider audiences. We discussed how nonprofits can effectively promote their initiatives and events, drawing parallels to how musicians prepare for album releases and tours.</p>
<p>Carter also introduced his book, "Music Business Basics," which provides practical strategies for independent artists and can be applied to nonprofit leadership. We delved into the significance of branding, noting that a logo is just one aspect of a broader brand identity that encompasses mission statements, values, and the overall voice of the organization.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, we touched on the importance of storytelling and demonstrating impact, as these elements are vital for engaging supporters and donors. Carter's insights on strategic planning resonated deeply, as he emphasized the need for leaders to map out their goals and involve their teams in the process.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Carter shared his upcoming projects, including a new album and a book exploring the connection between humanity and the cosmos. This episode is packed with actionable advice for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their impact while staying true to their mission. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you find inspiration in Carter's journey and insights!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1558</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f3c568b4-dac0-11f0-a349-f79ca47e5cb3]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4144160820.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Authentic Alliance: Empowering Sustainable Change in Complex Organizations</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/12/09/npe-authentic-alliance/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Crystal Gibson, the founder of The Authentic Alliance. Crystal is a leadership catalyst dedicated to helping mission-driven organizations foster cultures of courage, belonging, and sustainable impact. Our conversation centered around her core philosophy that authenticity, rather than perfection, is a leader's greatest asset.

We explored the challenges leaders face in being their true selves, particularly in mission-driven organizations where conformity can often overshadow individuality. Crystal shared insights on how leaders can practice vulnerability while maintaining confidence, emphasizing the importance of learning out loud and being present with their teams.

Crystal introduced her book, "Authentic Alliance: Empowering Sustainable Change in Complex Organizations," which serves as a practical guide for leaders navigating the complexities of organizational life. We discussed the alarming statistic that 74% of nonprofit staff report hiding parts of themselves at work, and how this pervasive issue stems from a fear of not aligning with the expected norms.

Throughout our discussion, we highlighted the importance of creating an inclusive environment where mistakes are viewed as learning opportunities rather than failures. Crystal shared her CHARM Method, which encourages co-creation, honoring existing processes, assessing situations, reflecting, and measuring what truly matters.

We also touched on the concept of "mask leadership," where leaders present a false persona, which can undermine team performance and well-being. Crystal emphasized the need for leaders to remove their masks and lead authentically, fostering a culture of collaboration over competition.

As we wrapped up, Crystal provided practical steps for nonprofit leaders to empower their teams, such as celebrating progress, sharing knowledge freely, rewarding collaboration, and normalizing the act of asking for help. She encouraged leaders to regularly revisit their goals and expectations to maintain alignment and clarity within their organizations.

For those interested in diving deeper into Crystal's work, I encourage you to visit her website, theauthenticaliance.com, where you can find resources, schedule a conversation, and learn more about her book. This episode is a valuable resource for any leader looking to navigate the complexities of organizational life while staying grounded in authenticity.

More about Crystal Gibson at https://theauthenticalliance.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2025 20:34:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Authentic Alliance: Empowering Sustainable Change in Complex Organizations</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Navigating Organizational Complexity: The Power of Radical Authenticity</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Crystal Gibson, the founder of The Authentic Alliance. Crystal is a leadership catalyst dedicated to helping mission-driven organizations foster cultures of courage, belonging, and sustainable impact. Our conversation centered around her core philosophy that authenticity, rather than perfection, is a leader's greatest asset.

We explored the challenges leaders face in being their true selves, particularly in mission-driven organizations where conformity can often overshadow individuality. Crystal shared insights on how leaders can practice vulnerability while maintaining confidence, emphasizing the importance of learning out loud and being present with their teams.

Crystal introduced her book, "Authentic Alliance: Empowering Sustainable Change in Complex Organizations," which serves as a practical guide for leaders navigating the complexities of organizational life. We discussed the alarming statistic that 74% of nonprofit staff report hiding parts of themselves at work, and how this pervasive issue stems from a fear of not aligning with the expected norms.

Throughout our discussion, we highlighted the importance of creating an inclusive environment where mistakes are viewed as learning opportunities rather than failures. Crystal shared her CHARM Method, which encourages co-creation, honoring existing processes, assessing situations, reflecting, and measuring what truly matters.

We also touched on the concept of "mask leadership," where leaders present a false persona, which can undermine team performance and well-being. Crystal emphasized the need for leaders to remove their masks and lead authentically, fostering a culture of collaboration over competition.

As we wrapped up, Crystal provided practical steps for nonprofit leaders to empower their teams, such as celebrating progress, sharing knowledge freely, rewarding collaboration, and normalizing the act of asking for help. She encouraged leaders to regularly revisit their goals and expectations to maintain alignment and clarity within their organizations.

For those interested in diving deeper into Crystal's work, I encourage you to visit her website, theauthenticaliance.com, where you can find resources, schedule a conversation, and learn more about her book. This episode is a valuable resource for any leader looking to navigate the complexities of organizational life while staying grounded in authenticity.

More about Crystal Gibson at https://theauthenticalliance.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Crystal Gibson, the founder of The Authentic Alliance. Crystal is a leadership catalyst dedicated to helping mission-driven organizations foster cultures of courage, belonging, and sustainable impact. Our conversation centered around her core philosophy that authenticity, rather than perfection, is a leader's greatest asset.</p>
<p>We explored the challenges leaders face in being their true selves, particularly in mission-driven organizations where conformity can often overshadow individuality. Crystal shared insights on how leaders can practice vulnerability while maintaining confidence, emphasizing the importance of learning out loud and being present with their teams.</p>
<p>Crystal introduced her book, "Authentic Alliance: Empowering Sustainable Change in Complex Organizations," which serves as a practical guide for leaders navigating the complexities of organizational life. We discussed the alarming statistic that 74% of nonprofit staff report hiding parts of themselves at work, and how this pervasive issue stems from a fear of not aligning with the expected norms.</p>
<p>Throughout our discussion, we highlighted the importance of creating an inclusive environment where mistakes are viewed as learning opportunities rather than failures. Crystal shared her CHARM Method, which encourages co-creation, honoring existing processes, assessing situations, reflecting, and measuring what truly matters.</p>
<p>We also touched on the concept of "mask leadership," where leaders present a false persona, which can undermine team performance and well-being. Crystal emphasized the need for leaders to remove their masks and lead authentically, fostering a culture of collaboration over competition.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Crystal provided practical steps for nonprofit leaders to empower their teams, such as celebrating progress, sharing knowledge freely, rewarding collaboration, and normalizing the act of asking for help. She encouraged leaders to regularly revisit their goals and expectations to maintain alignment and clarity within their organizations.</p>
<p>For those interested in diving deeper into Crystal's work, I encourage you to visit her website, theauthenticaliance.com, where you can find resources, schedule a conversation, and learn more about her book. This episode is a valuable resource for any leader looking to navigate the complexities of organizational life while staying grounded in authenticity.</p>
<p>More about Crystal Gibson at https://theauthenticalliance.com</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1535</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[79d1d632-d53e-11f0-9887-b7d6603fbd16]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7096532907.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Unlocking Excellence: How Culture Drives Success in Nonprofits</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/12/02/npe-unlocking-excellence/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Steve Gander, a seasoned expert in cultural transformation and leadership development. With over four decades of experience, Steve has worked with a diverse range of organizations, from Fortune 500 companies to nonprofits, helping them build high-performance, values-driven cultures.

We delved into the critical role of culture in organizational success, emphasizing that culture drives everything. Steve shared insights on how beliefs govern behavior, both individually and collectively, and highlighted the importance of understanding and measuring culture to foster excellence. He explained that many leaders unknowingly create barriers to a positive culture, often leading to defensive behaviors among their teams.

Steve also discussed the concept of "culture engineering," which involves a structured process to create and sustain high-performing cultures. He provided practical advice for nonprofit leaders, stressing the need for self-awareness and the importance of confronting the reality of their organizational culture.

As a takeaway, Steve encouraged listeners to utilize the resources available on his website, excellentcultures.com, particularly the MRI tool that helps organizations assess their current culture against desired benchmarks. This episode is packed with valuable insights and actionable steps for leaders looking to transform their organizations and create a thriving culture.

I invite you to reflect on your own beliefs and behaviors as a leader and consider how you can take that first step toward cultural transformation. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you find this conversation as enlightening as I did!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2025 22:25:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Unlocking Excellence: How Culture Drives Success in Nonprofits</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/d0f1b750-cfcd-11f0-97ee-9348d0c40f3c/image/6db20688572d1dfbb31a79ddd5c307b3.jpg?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Science of Culture: Measuring and Transforming Organizational Beliefs</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Steve Gander, a seasoned expert in cultural transformation and leadership development. With over four decades of experience, Steve has worked with a diverse range of organizations, from Fortune 500 companies to nonprofits, helping them build high-performance, values-driven cultures.

We delved into the critical role of culture in organizational success, emphasizing that culture drives everything. Steve shared insights on how beliefs govern behavior, both individually and collectively, and highlighted the importance of understanding and measuring culture to foster excellence. He explained that many leaders unknowingly create barriers to a positive culture, often leading to defensive behaviors among their teams.

Steve also discussed the concept of "culture engineering," which involves a structured process to create and sustain high-performing cultures. He provided practical advice for nonprofit leaders, stressing the need for self-awareness and the importance of confronting the reality of their organizational culture.

As a takeaway, Steve encouraged listeners to utilize the resources available on his website, excellentcultures.com, particularly the MRI tool that helps organizations assess their current culture against desired benchmarks. This episode is packed with valuable insights and actionable steps for leaders looking to transform their organizations and create a thriving culture.

I invite you to reflect on your own beliefs and behaviors as a leader and consider how you can take that first step toward cultural transformation. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you find this conversation as enlightening as I did!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Steve Gander, a seasoned expert in cultural transformation and leadership development. With over four decades of experience, Steve has worked with a diverse range of organizations, from Fortune 500 companies to nonprofits, helping them build high-performance, values-driven cultures.</p>
<p>We delved into the critical role of culture in organizational success, emphasizing that culture drives everything. Steve shared insights on how beliefs govern behavior, both individually and collectively, and highlighted the importance of understanding and measuring culture to foster excellence. He explained that many leaders unknowingly create barriers to a positive culture, often leading to defensive behaviors among their teams.</p>
<p>Steve also discussed the concept of "culture engineering," which involves a structured process to create and sustain high-performing cultures. He provided practical advice for nonprofit leaders, stressing the need for self-awareness and the importance of confronting the reality of their organizational culture.</p>
<p>As a takeaway, Steve encouraged listeners to utilize the resources available on his website, excellentcultures.com, particularly the MRI tool that helps organizations assess their current culture against desired benchmarks. This episode is packed with valuable insights and actionable steps for leaders looking to transform their organizations and create a thriving culture.</p>
<p>I invite you to reflect on your own beliefs and behaviors as a leader and consider how you can take that first step toward cultural transformation. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you find this conversation as enlightening as I did!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1586</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d0f1b750-cfcd-11f0-97ee-9348d0c40f3c]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3172351013.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leading Beyond the Buzzwords: Real Systems Change in Nonprofits</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/11/25/npe-leading-beyond-buzzwords/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Pierre Berestrain, the incoming CEO of Safe Alliance in Austin, Texas. Safe Alliance is a leading organization dedicated to supporting survivors of domestic and sexual violence, as well as sex trafficking. Pierre's journey from being an undocumented immigrant from Peru to a prominent leader in the nonprofit sector has profoundly shaped his understanding of systems, power, and community care.

We delved into the concept of "Leading Beyond the Buzzwords," exploring what real systems change looks like in the nonprofit sector. Pierre emphasized that while program improvements address symptoms of social issues, true systems change requires a deeper examination of the root causes and the policies that perpetuate these problems. He highlighted the importance of integrating community wisdom into our approaches and the need for a mindset shift in how we view prevention and intervention.

Pierre also discussed the significance of dignity-centered and collective leadership, stressing that effective leadership is about creating conditions where staff can thrive and feel joy in their work. He shared insights on the power of storytelling in shaping cultural narratives around issues like gender-based violence and immigration, illustrating how narratives can either reinforce or disrupt harmful systems.

Collaboration emerged as a key theme, with Pierre noting that successful partnerships between nonprofits, government, and communities are built on trust, humility, and shared stewardship. He provided a compelling example of how Safe Alliance is working with the city of Austin to transform a hotel into an emergency shelter for survivors, showcasing the potential for civic engagement and investment in community well-being.

As we wrapped up our conversation, Pierre expressed his hope for the future, highlighting a shift in community perspectives towards safety and belonging. He believes that by focusing on building a supportive ecosystem, we can create conditions where individuals can live full, connected, and flourishing lives.

This episode is a call to action for leaders in the nonprofit sector to engage deeply, listen intentionally, and lead with courage, as we work together to transform lives and communities.

#NonprofitExchange #SystemsChange #Storytelling #Collaboration #Leadership #SafeAlliance
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2025 20:59:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leading Beyond the Buzzwords: Real Systems Change in Nonprofits</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/646873a6-ca43-11f0-a94b-0f0f2f920836/image/3bd788e3d84b5bcf0221503c7d3c8b45.jpg?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Power of Storytelling: Shaping Narratives Around Gender-Based Violence</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Pierre Berestrain, the incoming CEO of Safe Alliance in Austin, Texas. Safe Alliance is a leading organization dedicated to supporting survivors of domestic and sexual violence, as well as sex trafficking. Pierre's journey from being an undocumented immigrant from Peru to a prominent leader in the nonprofit sector has profoundly shaped his understanding of systems, power, and community care.

We delved into the concept of "Leading Beyond the Buzzwords," exploring what real systems change looks like in the nonprofit sector. Pierre emphasized that while program improvements address symptoms of social issues, true systems change requires a deeper examination of the root causes and the policies that perpetuate these problems. He highlighted the importance of integrating community wisdom into our approaches and the need for a mindset shift in how we view prevention and intervention.

Pierre also discussed the significance of dignity-centered and collective leadership, stressing that effective leadership is about creating conditions where staff can thrive and feel joy in their work. He shared insights on the power of storytelling in shaping cultural narratives around issues like gender-based violence and immigration, illustrating how narratives can either reinforce or disrupt harmful systems.

Collaboration emerged as a key theme, with Pierre noting that successful partnerships between nonprofits, government, and communities are built on trust, humility, and shared stewardship. He provided a compelling example of how Safe Alliance is working with the city of Austin to transform a hotel into an emergency shelter for survivors, showcasing the potential for civic engagement and investment in community well-being.

As we wrapped up our conversation, Pierre expressed his hope for the future, highlighting a shift in community perspectives towards safety and belonging. He believes that by focusing on building a supportive ecosystem, we can create conditions where individuals can live full, connected, and flourishing lives.

This episode is a call to action for leaders in the nonprofit sector to engage deeply, listen intentionally, and lead with courage, as we work together to transform lives and communities.

#NonprofitExchange #SystemsChange #Storytelling #Collaboration #Leadership #SafeAlliance
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Pierre Berestrain, the incoming CEO of Safe Alliance in Austin, Texas. Safe Alliance is a leading organization dedicated to supporting survivors of domestic and sexual violence, as well as sex trafficking. Pierre's journey from being an undocumented immigrant from Peru to a prominent leader in the nonprofit sector has profoundly shaped his understanding of systems, power, and community care.</p>
<p>We delved into the concept of "Leading Beyond the Buzzwords," exploring what real systems change looks like in the nonprofit sector. Pierre emphasized that while program improvements address symptoms of social issues, true systems change requires a deeper examination of the root causes and the policies that perpetuate these problems. He highlighted the importance of integrating community wisdom into our approaches and the need for a mindset shift in how we view prevention and intervention.</p>
<p>Pierre also discussed the significance of dignity-centered and collective leadership, stressing that effective leadership is about creating conditions where staff can thrive and feel joy in their work. He shared insights on the power of storytelling in shaping cultural narratives around issues like gender-based violence and immigration, illustrating how narratives can either reinforce or disrupt harmful systems.</p>
<p>Collaboration emerged as a key theme, with Pierre noting that successful partnerships between nonprofits, government, and communities are built on trust, humility, and shared stewardship. He provided a compelling example of how Safe Alliance is working with the city of Austin to transform a hotel into an emergency shelter for survivors, showcasing the potential for civic engagement and investment in community well-being.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up our conversation, Pierre expressed his hope for the future, highlighting a shift in community perspectives towards safety and belonging. He believes that by focusing on building a supportive ecosystem, we can create conditions where individuals can live full, connected, and flourishing lives.</p>
<p>This episode is a call to action for leaders in the nonprofit sector to engage deeply, listen intentionally, and lead with courage, as we work together to transform lives and communities.</p>
<p>#NonprofitExchange #SystemsChange #Storytelling #Collaboration #Leadership #SafeAlliance</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1809</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[646873a6-ca43-11f0-a94b-0f0f2f920836]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7165815812.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Charting an Intentional Path to Corporate Board Service</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/11/18/npe-board-service/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Keith Dorsey, a leading expert in board governance, leadership readiness, and organizational strategy. Dr. Dorsey shared invaluable insights on the concept that board service is a journey rather than a mere checklist, emphasizing the importance of understanding the roles of management, advisory, and oversight within nonprofit boards.

We discussed common pitfalls that nonprofit leaders encounter when recruiting and onboarding board members, particularly the tendency to surround themselves with familiar faces rather than seeking individuals with the necessary skills and experience. Dr. Dorsey highlighted the need for leaders to ask the right questions and to be willing to make tough decisions about board composition to ensure strategic alignment.

A significant part of our conversation revolved around Dr. Dorsey's five forms of capital: human, social, cultural, directoral, and commitment capital. He explained how these capitals can be leveraged to enhance board effectiveness and drive organizational success. We also explored the concept of optimal diversity, which combines observable diversity with intentional diversity of thought, fostering richer discussions and better decision-making within boards.

Dr. Dorsey encouraged listeners to reflect on their personal "why" and to identify their unique strengths and values as they navigate their board journeys. He emphasized the importance of slowing down to think critically about board dynamics and strategic goals, rather than operating on autopilot.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Dorsey shared details about his book, "The Boardroom Journey," and the resources available on his website, boardroomjourney.com. I invited him to return for a follow-up discussion, as there is so much more to explore in the realm of effective board governance.

This episode is packed with practical advice and thought-provoking concepts that nonprofit leaders can apply immediately to strengthen their boards and enhance their organizations' impact. Be sure to check out the full episode for all the insights!



More about Dr. Dorsey at - https://www.boardroomjourney.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2025 21:14:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Charting an Intentional Path to Corporate Board Service</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Building Effective Nonprofit Boards: Strategies for Optimal Diversity and Leadership</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Keith Dorsey, a leading expert in board governance, leadership readiness, and organizational strategy. Dr. Dorsey shared invaluable insights on the concept that board service is a journey rather than a mere checklist, emphasizing the importance of understanding the roles of management, advisory, and oversight within nonprofit boards.

We discussed common pitfalls that nonprofit leaders encounter when recruiting and onboarding board members, particularly the tendency to surround themselves with familiar faces rather than seeking individuals with the necessary skills and experience. Dr. Dorsey highlighted the need for leaders to ask the right questions and to be willing to make tough decisions about board composition to ensure strategic alignment.

A significant part of our conversation revolved around Dr. Dorsey's five forms of capital: human, social, cultural, directoral, and commitment capital. He explained how these capitals can be leveraged to enhance board effectiveness and drive organizational success. We also explored the concept of optimal diversity, which combines observable diversity with intentional diversity of thought, fostering richer discussions and better decision-making within boards.

Dr. Dorsey encouraged listeners to reflect on their personal "why" and to identify their unique strengths and values as they navigate their board journeys. He emphasized the importance of slowing down to think critically about board dynamics and strategic goals, rather than operating on autopilot.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Dorsey shared details about his book, "The Boardroom Journey," and the resources available on his website, boardroomjourney.com. I invited him to return for a follow-up discussion, as there is so much more to explore in the realm of effective board governance.

This episode is packed with practical advice and thought-provoking concepts that nonprofit leaders can apply immediately to strengthen their boards and enhance their organizations' impact. Be sure to check out the full episode for all the insights!



More about Dr. Dorsey at - https://www.boardroomjourney.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Keith Dorsey, a leading expert in board governance, leadership readiness, and organizational strategy. Dr. Dorsey shared invaluable insights on the concept that board service is a journey rather than a mere checklist, emphasizing the importance of understanding the roles of management, advisory, and oversight within nonprofit boards.</p>
<p>We discussed common pitfalls that nonprofit leaders encounter when recruiting and onboarding board members, particularly the tendency to surround themselves with familiar faces rather than seeking individuals with the necessary skills and experience. Dr. Dorsey highlighted the need for leaders to ask the right questions and to be willing to make tough decisions about board composition to ensure strategic alignment.</p>
<p>A significant part of our conversation revolved around Dr. Dorsey's five forms of capital: human, social, cultural, directoral, and commitment capital. He explained how these capitals can be leveraged to enhance board effectiveness and drive organizational success. We also explored the concept of optimal diversity, which combines observable diversity with intentional diversity of thought, fostering richer discussions and better decision-making within boards.</p>
<p>Dr. Dorsey encouraged listeners to reflect on their personal "why" and to identify their unique strengths and values as they navigate their board journeys. He emphasized the importance of slowing down to think critically about board dynamics and strategic goals, rather than operating on autopilot.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Dr. Dorsey shared details about his book, "The Boardroom Journey," and the resources available on his website, boardroomjourney.com. I invited him to return for a follow-up discussion, as there is so much more to explore in the realm of effective board governance.</p>
<p>This episode is packed with practical advice and thought-provoking concepts that nonprofit leaders can apply immediately to strengthen their boards and enhance their organizations' impact. Be sure to check out the full episode for all the insights!</p>
<p><br></p>
<p>More about Dr. Dorsey at - https://www.boardroomjourney.com</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1639</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[9def3018-c4c3-11f0-b9eb-07d0870087e2]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8773648978.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Reaching Hearts in a Changing World</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/11/11/npe-reaching-hearts/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Terry Modica, co-founder and executive leader of Good News Ministries, a global organization dedicated to digital content creation and mission-driven outreach. Terry shared her inspiring journey of how Good News Ministries was born out of a deep passion for evangelization and education, sparked by her experiences in adult education and transformative workshops.

Terry recounted the pivotal moment when she and her husband felt called to move from New Jersey to Florida, where they encountered a community eager for the same mission they had envisioned. This led to the establishment of Good News Ministries of Tampa Bay, highlighting the importance of stepping up to a calling and taking risks in the pursuit of a greater purpose.

Throughout our conversation, we explored the challenges Terry faced in transitioning her vision into reality, including the need to adapt to new leadership styles and the importance of building a strong organizational culture. Terry emphasized the significance of treating people with respect and responding to their needs, drawing from her own experiences of frustration with unresponsive organizations.

We also discussed the role of technology in expanding their reach, as Terry embraced digital platforms early on, recognizing the potential of the internet to connect with a broader audience. She shared insights on measuring impact, not just through statistics but also by listening to the feedback from those they serve.

Terry's commitment to continuous self-improvement and her guiding principles as a servant leader were evident throughout our discussion. She underscored the importance of being adaptable and responsive to the needs of the community, which has been crucial for the sustainability of Good News Ministries.

As we wrapped up the episode, I encouraged listeners to reflect on their own visions, establish effective systems, and engage their communities to bring their missions to life. Terry's experiences and insights serve as a powerful reminder of the impact we can have when we are dedicated to serving others.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2025 20:57:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Reaching Hearts in a Changing World</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Embracing Change: How Good News Ministries Pioneered Digital Outreach</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Terry Modica, co-founder and executive leader of Good News Ministries, a global organization dedicated to digital content creation and mission-driven outreach. Terry shared her inspiring journey of how Good News Ministries was born out of a deep passion for evangelization and education, sparked by her experiences in adult education and transformative workshops.

Terry recounted the pivotal moment when she and her husband felt called to move from New Jersey to Florida, where they encountered a community eager for the same mission they had envisioned. This led to the establishment of Good News Ministries of Tampa Bay, highlighting the importance of stepping up to a calling and taking risks in the pursuit of a greater purpose.

Throughout our conversation, we explored the challenges Terry faced in transitioning her vision into reality, including the need to adapt to new leadership styles and the importance of building a strong organizational culture. Terry emphasized the significance of treating people with respect and responding to their needs, drawing from her own experiences of frustration with unresponsive organizations.

We also discussed the role of technology in expanding their reach, as Terry embraced digital platforms early on, recognizing the potential of the internet to connect with a broader audience. She shared insights on measuring impact, not just through statistics but also by listening to the feedback from those they serve.

Terry's commitment to continuous self-improvement and her guiding principles as a servant leader were evident throughout our discussion. She underscored the importance of being adaptable and responsive to the needs of the community, which has been crucial for the sustainability of Good News Ministries.

As we wrapped up the episode, I encouraged listeners to reflect on their own visions, establish effective systems, and engage their communities to bring their missions to life. Terry's experiences and insights serve as a powerful reminder of the impact we can have when we are dedicated to serving others.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Terry Modica, co-founder and executive leader of Good News Ministries, a global organization dedicated to digital content creation and mission-driven outreach. Terry shared her inspiring journey of how Good News Ministries was born out of a deep passion for evangelization and education, sparked by her experiences in adult education and transformative workshops.</p>
<p>Terry recounted the pivotal moment when she and her husband felt called to move from New Jersey to Florida, where they encountered a community eager for the same mission they had envisioned. This led to the establishment of Good News Ministries of Tampa Bay, highlighting the importance of stepping up to a calling and taking risks in the pursuit of a greater purpose.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, we explored the challenges Terry faced in transitioning her vision into reality, including the need to adapt to new leadership styles and the importance of building a strong organizational culture. Terry emphasized the significance of treating people with respect and responding to their needs, drawing from her own experiences of frustration with unresponsive organizations.</p>
<p>We also discussed the role of technology in expanding their reach, as Terry embraced digital platforms early on, recognizing the potential of the internet to connect with a broader audience. She shared insights on measuring impact, not just through statistics but also by listening to the feedback from those they serve.</p>
<p>Terry's commitment to continuous self-improvement and her guiding principles as a servant leader were evident throughout our discussion. She underscored the importance of being adaptable and responsive to the needs of the community, which has been crucial for the sustainability of Good News Ministries.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up the episode, I encouraged listeners to reflect on their own visions, establish effective systems, and engage their communities to bring their missions to life. Terry's experiences and insights serve as a powerful reminder of the impact we can have when we are dedicated to serving others.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1687</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[11b62494-bf41-11f0-b69b-630863506334]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3671797932.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Timeless Secrets of Influential Leaders</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/11/04/npe-secrets-of-influencial-leaders/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Corey Poirier, an award-winning speaker, author, and founder of Blue Talks. Corey shared his journey and the inspiration behind Blue Talks, a global platform that merges business, life, and the universe, allowing individuals to discover their authentic voice and expand their influence.

We delved into the importance of authenticity in leadership, especially for nonprofit and faith-based leaders. Corey emphasized that authenticity is the new currency in leadership, as people crave genuine connections and transparency. He discussed how leaders can overcome the tendency to hide behind titles and instead foster an environment where everyone feels valued and empowered to contribute.

Corey also highlighted the significance of storytelling in effective communication. He addressed the common fear of public speaking, explaining that it often stems from the fear of the unknown. By preparing thoroughly and focusing on the audience rather than oneself, leaders can become more comfortable and impactful speakers.

We explored practical strategies for improving public speaking skills, such as joining organizations like Toastmasters or offering no-fee talks to local chambers of commerce. Corey shared his personal experiences and insights on how to build confidence and competence in public speaking.

As we wrapped up, Corey offered valuable advice on staying grounded and aligned with one’s purpose, including the creation of a personal mission statement. This episode is packed with wisdom for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their influence and create lasting change in their organizations.

I encourage you to check out Corey’s website, coreyporeamedia.com, and explore the resources available through Blue Talks. Thank you for tuning in, and I look forward to our next conversation!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2025 21:30:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Timeless Secrets of Influential Leaders</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Art of Influence: How Nonprofit Leaders Can Harness Their Authentic Voice</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Corey Poirier, an award-winning speaker, author, and founder of Blue Talks. Corey shared his journey and the inspiration behind Blue Talks, a global platform that merges business, life, and the universe, allowing individuals to discover their authentic voice and expand their influence.

We delved into the importance of authenticity in leadership, especially for nonprofit and faith-based leaders. Corey emphasized that authenticity is the new currency in leadership, as people crave genuine connections and transparency. He discussed how leaders can overcome the tendency to hide behind titles and instead foster an environment where everyone feels valued and empowered to contribute.

Corey also highlighted the significance of storytelling in effective communication. He addressed the common fear of public speaking, explaining that it often stems from the fear of the unknown. By preparing thoroughly and focusing on the audience rather than oneself, leaders can become more comfortable and impactful speakers.

We explored practical strategies for improving public speaking skills, such as joining organizations like Toastmasters or offering no-fee talks to local chambers of commerce. Corey shared his personal experiences and insights on how to build confidence and competence in public speaking.

As we wrapped up, Corey offered valuable advice on staying grounded and aligned with one’s purpose, including the creation of a personal mission statement. This episode is packed with wisdom for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their influence and create lasting change in their organizations.

I encourage you to check out Corey’s website, coreyporeamedia.com, and explore the resources available through Blue Talks. Thank you for tuning in, and I look forward to our next conversation!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Corey Poirier, an award-winning speaker, author, and founder of Blue Talks. Corey shared his journey and the inspiration behind Blue Talks, a global platform that merges business, life, and the universe, allowing individuals to discover their authentic voice and expand their influence.</p>
<p>We delved into the importance of authenticity in leadership, especially for nonprofit and faith-based leaders. Corey emphasized that authenticity is the new currency in leadership, as people crave genuine connections and transparency. He discussed how leaders can overcome the tendency to hide behind titles and instead foster an environment where everyone feels valued and empowered to contribute.</p>
<p>Corey also highlighted the significance of storytelling in effective communication. He addressed the common fear of public speaking, explaining that it often stems from the fear of the unknown. By preparing thoroughly and focusing on the audience rather than oneself, leaders can become more comfortable and impactful speakers.</p>
<p>We explored practical strategies for improving public speaking skills, such as joining organizations like Toastmasters or offering no-fee talks to local chambers of commerce. Corey shared his personal experiences and insights on how to build confidence and competence in public speaking.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Corey offered valuable advice on staying grounded and aligned with one’s purpose, including the creation of a personal mission statement. This episode is packed with wisdom for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their influence and create lasting change in their organizations.</p>
<p>I encourage you to check out Corey’s website, coreyporeamedia.com, and explore the resources available through Blue Talks. Thank you for tuning in, and I look forward to our next conversation!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1702</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[77557bdc-b9c5-11f0-a8e1-77e974ca1d03]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5791585364.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leadership from the Inside Out: How Self-Awareness Shapes Success</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/10/28/npe-leadership-self-awareness/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Wayne Light Brown, the founder of Avoid Being Average. We delved into the theme of authentic leadership and purpose-driven success, exploring Dr. Brown's remarkable journey from artist to creative entrepreneur and leadership strategist.

Dr. Brown shared his roots in Harlem and the Bronx, emphasizing the importance of community and service in his life. He discussed how his experiences with graffiti and art therapy shaped his understanding of healing and transformation, leading him to create programs that support young entrepreneurs through his nonprofit, URISE.

A key focus of our conversation was Dr. Brown's principle of "reviewing results over reasons," which challenges nonprofit leaders to prioritize tangible outcomes over excuses. He highlighted the importance of revenue in sustaining nonprofit missions, urging leaders to embrace a mindset shift that recognizes the necessity of financial health for creating real impact.

We also explored the concept of living your true expression, which Dr. Brown defined as being authentic and transparent in leadership. He emphasized that authenticity is crucial for shaping organizational culture and fostering trust within teams.

Throughout the episode, Dr. Brown shared valuable insights on overcoming systemic barriers and unlocking potential in underserved communities. He encouraged leaders to practice vulnerability and transparency, reminding us that these qualities are essential for effective leadership.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Brown offered practical daily practices for aligning purpose with results, including the transformative exercise of morning pages, inspired by Julia Cameron's "The Artist's Way."

I encourage our listeners to visit avoidbeingaverage.com to learn more about Dr. Brown's coaching and resources. Remember, the journey of leadership is an art form that blends structure, purpose, and authenticity. Thank you for joining us, and until next time, let's continue to make a difference in people's lives.

More about Dr. Brown at - https://www.avoidbeingaverage.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2025 19:59:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leadership from the Inside Out: How Self-Awareness Shapes Success</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>•	From Artist to Leader: Transforming Results into Impact with Dr. Wayne Light Brown</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Wayne Light Brown, the founder of Avoid Being Average. We delved into the theme of authentic leadership and purpose-driven success, exploring Dr. Brown's remarkable journey from artist to creative entrepreneur and leadership strategist.

Dr. Brown shared his roots in Harlem and the Bronx, emphasizing the importance of community and service in his life. He discussed how his experiences with graffiti and art therapy shaped his understanding of healing and transformation, leading him to create programs that support young entrepreneurs through his nonprofit, URISE.

A key focus of our conversation was Dr. Brown's principle of "reviewing results over reasons," which challenges nonprofit leaders to prioritize tangible outcomes over excuses. He highlighted the importance of revenue in sustaining nonprofit missions, urging leaders to embrace a mindset shift that recognizes the necessity of financial health for creating real impact.

We also explored the concept of living your true expression, which Dr. Brown defined as being authentic and transparent in leadership. He emphasized that authenticity is crucial for shaping organizational culture and fostering trust within teams.

Throughout the episode, Dr. Brown shared valuable insights on overcoming systemic barriers and unlocking potential in underserved communities. He encouraged leaders to practice vulnerability and transparency, reminding us that these qualities are essential for effective leadership.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Brown offered practical daily practices for aligning purpose with results, including the transformative exercise of morning pages, inspired by Julia Cameron's "The Artist's Way."

I encourage our listeners to visit avoidbeingaverage.com to learn more about Dr. Brown's coaching and resources. Remember, the journey of leadership is an art form that blends structure, purpose, and authenticity. Thank you for joining us, and until next time, let's continue to make a difference in people's lives.

More about Dr. Brown at - https://www.avoidbeingaverage.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Wayne Light Brown, the founder of Avoid Being Average. We delved into the theme of authentic leadership and purpose-driven success, exploring Dr. Brown's remarkable journey from artist to creative entrepreneur and leadership strategist.</p>
<p>Dr. Brown shared his roots in Harlem and the Bronx, emphasizing the importance of community and service in his life. He discussed how his experiences with graffiti and art therapy shaped his understanding of healing and transformation, leading him to create programs that support young entrepreneurs through his nonprofit, URISE.</p>
<p>A key focus of our conversation was Dr. Brown's principle of "reviewing results over reasons," which challenges nonprofit leaders to prioritize tangible outcomes over excuses. He highlighted the importance of revenue in sustaining nonprofit missions, urging leaders to embrace a mindset shift that recognizes the necessity of financial health for creating real impact.</p>
<p>We also explored the concept of living your true expression, which Dr. Brown defined as being authentic and transparent in leadership. He emphasized that authenticity is crucial for shaping organizational culture and fostering trust within teams.</p>
<p>Throughout the episode, Dr. Brown shared valuable insights on overcoming systemic barriers and unlocking potential in underserved communities. He encouraged leaders to practice vulnerability and transparency, reminding us that these qualities are essential for effective leadership.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Dr. Brown offered practical daily practices for aligning purpose with results, including the transformative exercise of morning pages, inspired by Julia Cameron's "The Artist's Way."</p>
<p>I encourage our listeners to visit avoidbeingaverage.com to learn more about Dr. Brown's coaching and resources. Remember, the journey of leadership is an art form that blends structure, purpose, and authenticity. Thank you for joining us, and until next time, let's continue to make a difference in people's lives.</p>
<p>More about Dr. Brown at - https://www.avoidbeingaverage.com</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1640</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[ad774296-b438-11f0-a392-ef55e99dcbdf]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9542403013.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Building a Culture of Generosity: The Veritus Way of Donor-Centered Fundraising</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/10/21/npe-major-gift-program/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jeff Schreifels, a seasoned expert in nonprofit leadership and fundraising. Jeff, the principal of Veritas Group and co-author of "It's Not Just About the Money," shared his journey into the world of philanthropy, which was deeply influenced by his father's commitment to giving, even during tough times.

We explored the misconception that fundraising is solely about money. Jeff emphasized that true philanthropy is about building authentic relationships with donors and understanding their passions and interests. He highlighted the importance of viewing donors as key stakeholders in the mission of a nonprofit, rather than just sources of funding.

Jeff also addressed the challenges many nonprofits face with their boards and the need for clear expectations and training around fundraising. He pointed out that while board members may have passion, they often require guidance to effectively contribute to fundraising efforts.

Throughout our conversation, we discussed the shift from transactional to transformational fundraising, stressing that successful fundraising is about creating meaningful connections with donors. Jeff shared practical steps for nonprofit leaders to foster a donor-centered culture, including embracing the idea that staff and donors are integral to the mission.

This episode serves as a powerful reminder that fundraising is not just about chasing dollars; it's about inspiring generosity and building lasting relationships. For those interested in learning more about Jeff's work and accessing valuable resources, I encourage you to visit Veritas Group's website at veritasgroup.com.

Thank you for joining us on this journey of transforming vision into reality in the nonprofit sector!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2025 20:54:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Building a Culture of Generosity: The Veritus Way of Donor-Centered Fundraising</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>It 's Not Just About the Money: The Heart of Philanthropy</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jeff Schreifels, a seasoned expert in nonprofit leadership and fundraising. Jeff, the principal of Veritas Group and co-author of "It's Not Just About the Money," shared his journey into the world of philanthropy, which was deeply influenced by his father's commitment to giving, even during tough times.

We explored the misconception that fundraising is solely about money. Jeff emphasized that true philanthropy is about building authentic relationships with donors and understanding their passions and interests. He highlighted the importance of viewing donors as key stakeholders in the mission of a nonprofit, rather than just sources of funding.

Jeff also addressed the challenges many nonprofits face with their boards and the need for clear expectations and training around fundraising. He pointed out that while board members may have passion, they often require guidance to effectively contribute to fundraising efforts.

Throughout our conversation, we discussed the shift from transactional to transformational fundraising, stressing that successful fundraising is about creating meaningful connections with donors. Jeff shared practical steps for nonprofit leaders to foster a donor-centered culture, including embracing the idea that staff and donors are integral to the mission.

This episode serves as a powerful reminder that fundraising is not just about chasing dollars; it's about inspiring generosity and building lasting relationships. For those interested in learning more about Jeff's work and accessing valuable resources, I encourage you to visit Veritas Group's website at veritasgroup.com.

Thank you for joining us on this journey of transforming vision into reality in the nonprofit sector!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jeff Schreifels, a seasoned expert in nonprofit leadership and fundraising. Jeff, the principal of Veritas Group and co-author of "It's Not Just About the Money," shared his journey into the world of philanthropy, which was deeply influenced by his father's commitment to giving, even during tough times.</p>
<p>We explored the misconception that fundraising is solely about money. Jeff emphasized that true philanthropy is about building authentic relationships with donors and understanding their passions and interests. He highlighted the importance of viewing donors as key stakeholders in the mission of a nonprofit, rather than just sources of funding.</p>
<p>Jeff also addressed the challenges many nonprofits face with their boards and the need for clear expectations and training around fundraising. He pointed out that while board members may have passion, they often require guidance to effectively contribute to fundraising efforts.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, we discussed the shift from transactional to transformational fundraising, stressing that successful fundraising is about creating meaningful connections with donors. Jeff shared practical steps for nonprofit leaders to foster a donor-centered culture, including embracing the idea that staff and donors are integral to the mission.</p>
<p>This episode serves as a powerful reminder that fundraising is not just about chasing dollars; it's about inspiring generosity and building lasting relationships. For those interested in learning more about Jeff's work and accessing valuable resources, I encourage you to visit Veritas Group's website at veritasgroup.com.</p>
<p>Thank you for joining us on this journey of transforming vision into reality in the nonprofit sector!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1826</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[1e6ff5ac-aec0-11f0-94b8-cf796edef915]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7396098035.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Title: Leadership Mastery: The Art and Science of Leadership</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/10/14/npe-leadership-mastery/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Tom Collins, a physician, educator, and leadership scholar who has developed a transformational framework called the "Four Stars of Leadership." Drawing from his extensive interviews with America's top four-star generals and admirals, Dr. Collins identified four essential dimensions of leadership: character, competence, caring, and communication.

We explored how these principles can be applied not only in the military but also in the nonprofit and faith-based sectors, where leaders often face unique challenges such as limited resources and high accountability. Dr. Collins emphasized the importance of setting clear expectations and building trust through character, which is foundational for effective leadership. He also highlighted the distinction between professional competence and leadership competence, noting that excelling in one area does not automatically translate to success in the other.

Throughout our conversation, we discussed common mistakes leaders make, such as relying too heavily on positional authority, and the impact of blind spots on leadership effectiveness. Dr. Collins underscored the value of humility as a strength and the need for leaders to be self-aware and authentic.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Collins shared insights about his website, FourStarLeaders.com, where listeners can find resources, his podcast, and information about his book, "The Four Stars of Leadership." This episode serves as a reminder that effective leadership is about influencing others to achieve mutually beneficial goals, and that the principles of character, competence, caring, and communication are vital for success in any organization.

More information at - https://www.fourstarleaders.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2025 19:23:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Title: Leadership Mastery: The Art and Science of Leadership</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Four Stars of Leadership: Character, Competence, Caring, and Communication</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Tom Collins, a physician, educator, and leadership scholar who has developed a transformational framework called the "Four Stars of Leadership." Drawing from his extensive interviews with America's top four-star generals and admirals, Dr. Collins identified four essential dimensions of leadership: character, competence, caring, and communication.

We explored how these principles can be applied not only in the military but also in the nonprofit and faith-based sectors, where leaders often face unique challenges such as limited resources and high accountability. Dr. Collins emphasized the importance of setting clear expectations and building trust through character, which is foundational for effective leadership. He also highlighted the distinction between professional competence and leadership competence, noting that excelling in one area does not automatically translate to success in the other.

Throughout our conversation, we discussed common mistakes leaders make, such as relying too heavily on positional authority, and the impact of blind spots on leadership effectiveness. Dr. Collins underscored the value of humility as a strength and the need for leaders to be self-aware and authentic.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Collins shared insights about his website, FourStarLeaders.com, where listeners can find resources, his podcast, and information about his book, "The Four Stars of Leadership." This episode serves as a reminder that effective leadership is about influencing others to achieve mutually beneficial goals, and that the principles of character, competence, caring, and communication are vital for success in any organization.

More information at - https://www.fourstarleaders.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Tom Collins, a physician, educator, and leadership scholar who has developed a transformational framework called the "Four Stars of Leadership." Drawing from his extensive interviews with America's top four-star generals and admirals, Dr. Collins identified four essential dimensions of leadership: character, competence, caring, and communication.</p>
<p>We explored how these principles can be applied not only in the military but also in the nonprofit and faith-based sectors, where leaders often face unique challenges such as limited resources and high accountability. Dr. Collins emphasized the importance of setting clear expectations and building trust through character, which is foundational for effective leadership. He also highlighted the distinction between professional competence and leadership competence, noting that excelling in one area does not automatically translate to success in the other.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, we discussed common mistakes leaders make, such as relying too heavily on positional authority, and the impact of blind spots on leadership effectiveness. Dr. Collins underscored the value of humility as a strength and the need for leaders to be self-aware and authentic.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Dr. Collins shared insights about his website, FourStarLeaders.com, where listeners can find resources, his podcast, and information about his book, "The Four Stars of Leadership." This episode serves as a reminder that effective leadership is about influencing others to achieve mutually beneficial goals, and that the principles of character, competence, caring, and communication are vital for success in any organization.</p>
<p>More information at - <a href="https://www.fourstarleaders.com/">https://www.fourstarleaders.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1790</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[4f835a86-a933-11f0-9006-4381d889f9ad]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3078155715.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Sustainable Solutions: The Intersection of Technology and Social Change</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/10/07/npe-computers-4-people/</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2025 23:23:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Sustainable Solutions: The Intersection of Technology and Social Change</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Bridging the Digital Divide: How One Young Entrepreneur is Changing Lives</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1596</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[923e063c-a3d4-11f0-8d4d-bfe12fbeb242]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7464602110.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Transformational Mission: Nathan Walters on Sustainable Global Impact</title>
      <description>Nathan Walters is the President of Mission Discovery, an organization that has mobilized thousands of volunteers on short-term mission trips for over 30 years. With 15 years of experience leading teams around the world, Nathan has seen firsthand the transformative impact of missions when done with humility, sustainability, and Gospel-centered partnerships. His passion is equipping volunteers to serve well, empowering local communities, and sharing stories of lasting impact—like Valerie, who went from receiving a home as a child to building one for another family years later. Nathan’s journey from personal loss to leading in missions is a testimony to God’s redemptive work in brokenness, and he’s passionate about helping others step into their own calling to serve.Website - https://www.missiondiscovery.org

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou interviews Nathan Walters, President of Mission Discovery, about the heart and vision behind global mission work. Walters shares how his personal journey from overcoming childhood hardship to leading a faith-based nonprofit has shaped his passion for transformational service. He emphasizes that mission trips are not just about what participants give, but how they themselves are changed through service. According to Walters, openness to transformation is the key to making mission experiences impactful.The conversation explores how Mission Discovery ensures sustainability by focusing on long-term community partnerships rather than one-off projects. Walters highlights success stories where clean water, education, and housing initiatives have produced lasting impact. Collaboration, he notes, is central to Mission Discovery’s growth, with the motto “together is better” guiding its expansion into new regions and programs.Faith is also at the core of Mission Discovery’s mission. Walters explains how their evangelical commitments shape team preparation and outreach, balancing tangible acts of service with sharing the gospel. Looking ahead, he outlines new opportunities for churches, schools, and individuals to engage in mission trips. Ultimately, the interview underscores the dual transformation of both communities and volunteers, rooted in faith and sustainable action.


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2025 20:22:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Transformational Mission: Nathan Walters on Sustainable Global Impact</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Beyond Short-Term Fixes: Nathan Walters on Lasting Mission Partnerships</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Nathan Walters is the President of Mission Discovery, an organization that has mobilized thousands of volunteers on short-term mission trips for over 30 years. With 15 years of experience leading teams around the world, Nathan has seen firsthand the transformative impact of missions when done with humility, sustainability, and Gospel-centered partnerships. His passion is equipping volunteers to serve well, empowering local communities, and sharing stories of lasting impact—like Valerie, who went from receiving a home as a child to building one for another family years later. Nathan’s journey from personal loss to leading in missions is a testimony to God’s redemptive work in brokenness, and he’s passionate about helping others step into their own calling to serve.Website - https://www.missiondiscovery.org

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou interviews Nathan Walters, President of Mission Discovery, about the heart and vision behind global mission work. Walters shares how his personal journey from overcoming childhood hardship to leading a faith-based nonprofit has shaped his passion for transformational service. He emphasizes that mission trips are not just about what participants give, but how they themselves are changed through service. According to Walters, openness to transformation is the key to making mission experiences impactful.The conversation explores how Mission Discovery ensures sustainability by focusing on long-term community partnerships rather than one-off projects. Walters highlights success stories where clean water, education, and housing initiatives have produced lasting impact. Collaboration, he notes, is central to Mission Discovery’s growth, with the motto “together is better” guiding its expansion into new regions and programs.Faith is also at the core of Mission Discovery’s mission. Walters explains how their evangelical commitments shape team preparation and outreach, balancing tangible acts of service with sharing the gospel. Looking ahead, he outlines new opportunities for churches, schools, and individuals to engage in mission trips. Ultimately, the interview underscores the dual transformation of both communities and volunteers, rooted in faith and sustainable action.


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Nathan Walters is the President of Mission Discovery, an organization that has mobilized thousands of volunteers on short-term mission trips for over 30 years. With 15 years of experience leading teams around the world, Nathan has seen firsthand the transformative impact of missions when done with humility, sustainability, and Gospel-centered partnerships. His passion is equipping volunteers to serve well, empowering local communities, and sharing stories of lasting impact—like Valerie, who went from receiving a home as a child to building one for another family years later. Nathan’s journey from personal loss to leading in missions is a testimony to God’s redemptive work in brokenness, and he’s passionate about helping others step into their own calling to serve.Website - <a href="https://www.missiondiscovery.org/">https://www.missiondiscovery.org</a></p>
<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou interviews Nathan Walters, President of Mission Discovery, about the heart and vision behind global mission work. Walters shares how his personal journey from overcoming childhood hardship to leading a faith-based nonprofit has shaped his passion for transformational service. He emphasizes that mission trips are not just about what participants give, but how they themselves are changed through service. According to Walters, openness to transformation is the key to making mission experiences impactful.<br>The conversation explores how Mission Discovery ensures sustainability by focusing on long-term community partnerships rather than one-off projects. Walters highlights success stories where clean water, education, and housing initiatives have produced lasting impact. Collaboration, he notes, is central to Mission Discovery’s growth, with the motto “together is better” guiding its expansion into new regions and programs.<br>Faith is also at the core of Mission Discovery’s mission. Walters explains how their evangelical commitments shape team preparation and outreach, balancing tangible acts of service with sharing the gospel. Looking ahead, he outlines new opportunities for churches, schools, and individuals to engage in mission trips. Ultimately, the interview underscores the dual transformation of both communities and volunteers, rooted in faith and sustainable action.</p>
<p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1617</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Breaking Barriers: How The Rooted Life Transforms Nonprofit Leadership</title>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Rick Rodriguez, co-founder of The Rooted Life, a bilingual coaching and consulting practice dedicated to empowering individuals and organizations through identity-affirming culture work and data-driven strategies. As a first-generation Mexicano-Americano from Laredo, Texas, Rick brings a wealth of experience from various sectors, including K-12 education, corporate environments, and nonprofit organizations.

Rick shared his personal journey, highlighting the challenges he faced growing up in a family that lacked access to education and resources. Despite these barriers, his parents instilled in him the values of grit, persistence, and the importance of serving others. This upbringing shaped his commitment to removing obstacles for communities of color and fostering inclusive, values-aligned cultures.

We delved into the concept of being "rooted in identity," which Rick emphasized as crucial for leaders and teams. He explained that many systems operate under white dominant paradigms that often overlook the richness of diverse identities. For Rick, his identity is deeply connected to his family's history and cultural background, and he advocates for authenticity in leadership, encouraging individuals to embrace their true selves rather than conforming to societal expectations.

Rick introduced us to the "Rooted Way," a framework that consists of four stages: Identify, Cultivate, Activate, and Reflect. This model emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and unlearning harmful narratives while fostering a sense of curiosity and community. He believes that by understanding our own identities and experiences, we can create a ripple effect that encourages others to do the same, ultimately leading to societal change.

Throughout our conversation, Rick shared a compelling story about his work with a charter school system in Colorado, where he helped a new CEO navigate leadership transitions by fostering vulnerability among the senior leadership team. This approach allowed team members to connect on a deeper level, moving beyond titles and roles to understand each other's personal stories and experiences.

We also discussed common misconceptions in nonprofit leadership, such as the belief that achieving goals is the ultimate measure of success and that leaders must have all the answers. Rick challenged these notions, emphasizing the importance of listening to the voices of those we serve and being open to pivoting our strategies based on community needs.

As we wrapped up the episode, Rick offered practical advice for leaders looking to build a sense of belonging within their organizations, highlighting the power of self-reflection. He also encouraged boards to consistently ask whether they are meeting the needs of the communities they serve.

This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone involved in nonprofit work, leadership, or community engagement. Rick's passion for identity, culture, and service shines through, and I left our conversation feeling inspired to take action in my own work. If you’re looking to deepen your understanding of these critical issues and learn how to implement meaningful change, I highly recommend listening to this episode.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2025 19:18:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Breaking Barriers: How The Rooted Life Transforms Nonprofit Leadership</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Rooted in Identity: Dr. Rick Rodriguez on Empowering Communities Through Authentic Leadership</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Rick Rodriguez, co-founder of The Rooted Life, a bilingual coaching and consulting practice dedicated to empowering individuals and organizations through identity-affirming culture work and data-driven strategies. As a first-generation Mexicano-Americano from Laredo, Texas, Rick brings a wealth of experience from various sectors, including K-12 education, corporate environments, and nonprofit organizations.

Rick shared his personal journey, highlighting the challenges he faced growing up in a family that lacked access to education and resources. Despite these barriers, his parents instilled in him the values of grit, persistence, and the importance of serving others. This upbringing shaped his commitment to removing obstacles for communities of color and fostering inclusive, values-aligned cultures.

We delved into the concept of being "rooted in identity," which Rick emphasized as crucial for leaders and teams. He explained that many systems operate under white dominant paradigms that often overlook the richness of diverse identities. For Rick, his identity is deeply connected to his family's history and cultural background, and he advocates for authenticity in leadership, encouraging individuals to embrace their true selves rather than conforming to societal expectations.

Rick introduced us to the "Rooted Way," a framework that consists of four stages: Identify, Cultivate, Activate, and Reflect. This model emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and unlearning harmful narratives while fostering a sense of curiosity and community. He believes that by understanding our own identities and experiences, we can create a ripple effect that encourages others to do the same, ultimately leading to societal change.

Throughout our conversation, Rick shared a compelling story about his work with a charter school system in Colorado, where he helped a new CEO navigate leadership transitions by fostering vulnerability among the senior leadership team. This approach allowed team members to connect on a deeper level, moving beyond titles and roles to understand each other's personal stories and experiences.

We also discussed common misconceptions in nonprofit leadership, such as the belief that achieving goals is the ultimate measure of success and that leaders must have all the answers. Rick challenged these notions, emphasizing the importance of listening to the voices of those we serve and being open to pivoting our strategies based on community needs.

As we wrapped up the episode, Rick offered practical advice for leaders looking to build a sense of belonging within their organizations, highlighting the power of self-reflection. He also encouraged boards to consistently ask whether they are meeting the needs of the communities they serve.

This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone involved in nonprofit work, leadership, or community engagement. Rick's passion for identity, culture, and service shines through, and I left our conversation feeling inspired to take action in my own work. If you’re looking to deepen your understanding of these critical issues and learn how to implement meaningful change, I highly recommend listening to this episode.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Rick Rodriguez, co-founder of The Rooted Life, a bilingual coaching and consulting practice dedicated to empowering individuals and organizations through identity-affirming culture work and data-driven strategies. As a first-generation Mexicano-Americano from Laredo, Texas, Rick brings a wealth of experience from various sectors, including K-12 education, corporate environments, and nonprofit organizations.</p>
<p>Rick shared his personal journey, highlighting the challenges he faced growing up in a family that lacked access to education and resources. Despite these barriers, his parents instilled in him the values of grit, persistence, and the importance of serving others. This upbringing shaped his commitment to removing obstacles for communities of color and fostering inclusive, values-aligned cultures.</p>
<p>We delved into the concept of being "rooted in identity," which Rick emphasized as crucial for leaders and teams. He explained that many systems operate under white dominant paradigms that often overlook the richness of diverse identities. For Rick, his identity is deeply connected to his family's history and cultural background, and he advocates for authenticity in leadership, encouraging individuals to embrace their true selves rather than conforming to societal expectations.</p>
<p>Rick introduced us to the "Rooted Way," a framework that consists of four stages: Identify, Cultivate, Activate, and Reflect. This model emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and unlearning harmful narratives while fostering a sense of curiosity and community. He believes that by understanding our own identities and experiences, we can create a ripple effect that encourages others to do the same, ultimately leading to societal change.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, Rick shared a compelling story about his work with a charter school system in Colorado, where he helped a new CEO navigate leadership transitions by fostering vulnerability among the senior leadership team. This approach allowed team members to connect on a deeper level, moving beyond titles and roles to understand each other's personal stories and experiences.</p>
<p>We also discussed common misconceptions in nonprofit leadership, such as the belief that achieving goals is the ultimate measure of success and that leaders must have all the answers. Rick challenged these notions, emphasizing the importance of listening to the voices of those we serve and being open to pivoting our strategies based on community needs.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up the episode, Rick offered practical advice for leaders looking to build a sense of belonging within their organizations, highlighting the power of self-reflection. He also encouraged boards to consistently ask whether they are meeting the needs of the communities they serve.</p>
<p>This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone involved in nonprofit work, leadership, or community engagement. Rick's passion for identity, culture, and service shines through, and I left our conversation feeling inspired to take action in my own work. If you’re looking to deepen your understanding of these critical issues and learn how to implement meaningful change, I highly recommend listening to this episode.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1538</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2511abae-98b2-11f0-8c57-3f680be24f00]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4919389805.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>From Vision to Action: Essential Resources for Nonprofit Leaders</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/09/17/npe-leadfoward-magazine/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, along with my colleague David Dunworth, delve into the exciting offerings of our publication, Lead Forward magazine. As the founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, I emphasize the importance of creating synergy around our organizational vision, and David plays a crucial role as the co-publisher of the magazine.

We discuss the evolution of our publication from a simple newsletter to a substantial quarterly magazine filled with valuable resources for nonprofit leaders. Unlike typical magazines filled with ads, Lead Forward is packed with insightful articles covering various categories such as transformational leadership, grant funding, compliance, board relations, and more. Each issue is designed to provide actionable strategies and tools that can help leaders navigate the complexities of running a nonprofit.

David highlights the unique features of the magazine, including free downloads and QR codes that connect readers to additional resources. We also touch on the importance of community within the SynerVision network and the Nonprofit Prosperity Council, where leaders can share knowledge and support one another.

As we wrap up, I encourage listeners to subscribe to Lead Forward magazine, which is available for free in digital format, and to explore the wealth of resources we offer through our community. We believe that reading and continuous learning are essential for effective leadership, and our magazine aims to be a valuable tool in that journey.

For more information, listeners can visit leadforwardmagazine.org and the nonprofitexchange.org for past episodes and additional resources. Thank you for joining us, and we look forward to seeing new subscribers to our magazine!

Subscribe at https://synervisionleadership.org/leadforward-magazine/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2025 18:40:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>From Vision to Action: Essential Resources for Nonprofit Leaders</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Unlocking Leadership Potential: Insights from Lead Forward Magazine</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, along with my colleague David Dunworth, delve into the exciting offerings of our publication, Lead Forward magazine. As the founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, I emphasize the importance of creating synergy around our organizational vision, and David plays a crucial role as the co-publisher of the magazine.

We discuss the evolution of our publication from a simple newsletter to a substantial quarterly magazine filled with valuable resources for nonprofit leaders. Unlike typical magazines filled with ads, Lead Forward is packed with insightful articles covering various categories such as transformational leadership, grant funding, compliance, board relations, and more. Each issue is designed to provide actionable strategies and tools that can help leaders navigate the complexities of running a nonprofit.

David highlights the unique features of the magazine, including free downloads and QR codes that connect readers to additional resources. We also touch on the importance of community within the SynerVision network and the Nonprofit Prosperity Council, where leaders can share knowledge and support one another.

As we wrap up, I encourage listeners to subscribe to Lead Forward magazine, which is available for free in digital format, and to explore the wealth of resources we offer through our community. We believe that reading and continuous learning are essential for effective leadership, and our magazine aims to be a valuable tool in that journey.

For more information, listeners can visit leadforwardmagazine.org and the nonprofitexchange.org for past episodes and additional resources. Thank you for joining us, and we look forward to seeing new subscribers to our magazine!

Subscribe at https://synervisionleadership.org/leadforward-magazine/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, along with my colleague David Dunworth, delve into the exciting offerings of our publication, Lead Forward magazine. As the founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, I emphasize the importance of creating synergy around our organizational vision, and David plays a crucial role as the co-publisher of the magazine.</p>
<p>We discuss the evolution of our publication from a simple newsletter to a substantial quarterly magazine filled with valuable resources for nonprofit leaders. Unlike typical magazines filled with ads, Lead Forward is packed with insightful articles covering various categories such as transformational leadership, grant funding, compliance, board relations, and more. Each issue is designed to provide actionable strategies and tools that can help leaders navigate the complexities of running a nonprofit.</p>
<p>David highlights the unique features of the magazine, including free downloads and QR codes that connect readers to additional resources. We also touch on the importance of community within the SynerVision network and the Nonprofit Prosperity Council, where leaders can share knowledge and support one another.</p>
<p>As we wrap up, I encourage listeners to subscribe to Lead Forward magazine, which is available for free in digital format, and to explore the wealth of resources we offer through our community. We believe that reading and continuous learning are essential for effective leadership, and our magazine aims to be a valuable tool in that journey.</p>
<p>For more information, listeners can visit leadforwardmagazine.org and the nonprofitexchange.org for past episodes and additional resources. Thank you for joining us, and we look forward to seeing new subscribers to our magazine!</p>
<p>Subscribe at <a href="https://synervisionleadership.org/leadforward-magazine/%20">https://synervisionleadership.org/leadforward-magazine/ </a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1469</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d126b234-93f5-11f0-8d14-f76222b54b94]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5676770287.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Terms and Conditions of Value-Based Leadership, Part 2</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/09/09/npe-value-based-leadership-2/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming back Noel Massie for part two of our discussion on "Terms and Conditions of Value-Based Leadership." Noah, a retired vice president of U.S. delivery operations for UPS and an experienced leader in the nonprofit sector, shared invaluable insights that are applicable not only in corporate settings but also for nonprofit and faith leaders.

We explored the concept of being "promoted" into leadership roles, emphasizing that every time we enter a new environment, we take on the responsibility of leadership. Noah highlighted the importance of establishing clear values and conditions that foster a positive organizational culture. He introduced his B.E.S.T. acronym, which stands for Be Clear, Expect the Best, Stick to the Objective, and Test Commitment, as a framework for effective leadership communication.

We also tackled the myth that lower standards are acceptable when working with volunteers, asserting that excellence should always be the goal, regardless of the context. Noah provided practical tools, including the Four by Five Method and the Seven Steps of Effective Training, to help leaders engage their teams effectively and ensure that everyone is on the same page.

Throughout our conversation, we emphasized the significance of daily messaging and the need for leaders to communicate clearly and consistently with their teams. Noah reminded us that leadership is about influence, not coercion, and that we must invest in our people to achieve the best outcomes.

As we wrapped up, Noah shared a powerful closing thought: "You can't hope to get more than you give." This principle serves as a reminder that investing in our teams is essential for fostering a thriving organizational culture.

I encourage all listeners to check out Noah's book, "You've Been Promoted," as it offers practical insights and strategies that every leader should have in their toolkit. Thank you for joining us, and I look forward to our next conversation!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2025 13:11:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Terms and Conditions of Value-Based Leadership, Part 2</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/1ac904d8-8db5-11f0-88c2-efc65457a380/image/dbb5695bf3fcce79312bd595887e0730.jpg?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Investing in People: How to Get More by Giving More in Leadership</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming back Noel Massie for part two of our discussion on "Terms and Conditions of Value-Based Leadership." Noah, a retired vice president of U.S. delivery operations for UPS and an experienced leader in the nonprofit sector, shared invaluable insights that are applicable not only in corporate settings but also for nonprofit and faith leaders.

We explored the concept of being "promoted" into leadership roles, emphasizing that every time we enter a new environment, we take on the responsibility of leadership. Noah highlighted the importance of establishing clear values and conditions that foster a positive organizational culture. He introduced his B.E.S.T. acronym, which stands for Be Clear, Expect the Best, Stick to the Objective, and Test Commitment, as a framework for effective leadership communication.

We also tackled the myth that lower standards are acceptable when working with volunteers, asserting that excellence should always be the goal, regardless of the context. Noah provided practical tools, including the Four by Five Method and the Seven Steps of Effective Training, to help leaders engage their teams effectively and ensure that everyone is on the same page.

Throughout our conversation, we emphasized the significance of daily messaging and the need for leaders to communicate clearly and consistently with their teams. Noah reminded us that leadership is about influence, not coercion, and that we must invest in our people to achieve the best outcomes.

As we wrapped up, Noah shared a powerful closing thought: "You can't hope to get more than you give." This principle serves as a reminder that investing in our teams is essential for fostering a thriving organizational culture.

I encourage all listeners to check out Noah's book, "You've Been Promoted," as it offers practical insights and strategies that every leader should have in their toolkit. Thank you for joining us, and I look forward to our next conversation!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming back Noel Massie for part two of our discussion on "Terms and Conditions of Value-Based Leadership." Noah, a retired vice president of U.S. delivery operations for UPS and an experienced leader in the nonprofit sector, shared invaluable insights that are applicable not only in corporate settings but also for nonprofit and faith leaders.</p>
<p>We explored the concept of being "promoted" into leadership roles, emphasizing that every time we enter a new environment, we take on the responsibility of leadership. Noah highlighted the importance of establishing clear values and conditions that foster a positive organizational culture. He introduced his B.E.S.T. acronym, which stands for Be Clear, Expect the Best, Stick to the Objective, and Test Commitment, as a framework for effective leadership communication.</p>
<p>We also tackled the myth that lower standards are acceptable when working with volunteers, asserting that excellence should always be the goal, regardless of the context. Noah provided practical tools, including the Four by Five Method and the Seven Steps of Effective Training, to help leaders engage their teams effectively and ensure that everyone is on the same page.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, we emphasized the significance of daily messaging and the need for leaders to communicate clearly and consistently with their teams. Noah reminded us that leadership is about influence, not coercion, and that we must invest in our people to achieve the best outcomes.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Noah shared a powerful closing thought: "You can't hope to get more than you give." This principle serves as a reminder that investing in our teams is essential for fostering a thriving organizational culture.</p>
<p>I encourage all listeners to check out Noah's book, "You've Been Promoted," as it offers practical insights and strategies that every leader should have in their toolkit. Thank you for joining us, and I look forward to our next conversation!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2006</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[1ac904d8-8db5-11f0-88c2-efc65457a380]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2927404343.mp3?updated=1757510387" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Everyday Confessions: Transforming Conversations for Nonprofit Success</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/09/03/npe-discliplined-listenting-method/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Michael Reddington, a certified forensic interviewer and the founder of the Disciplined Listening Method. Michael's work focuses on transforming the art of listening into a powerful tool for leaders, enabling them to engage more deeply, build trust, and achieve better results in their conversations.

Michael shared his passion for helping people uncover hidden value in their interactions, emphasizing that many conversations leave much to be desired due to distractions, biases, and assumptions. He highlighted the importance of being a better listener first, which can lead to more effective communication. By observing the nuances of conversations and understanding how to connect with others, leaders can foster stronger relationships and drive better outcomes.

We discussed the significance of contextual awareness in conversations, noting that behaviors can have multiple meanings depending on the situation. Michael stressed the need for leaders to remain outcome-focused and to help others save face, especially when discussing sensitive topics. He also introduced his book, which integrates non-confrontational interview techniques with business communication best practices, aimed at maximizing the value of every conversation.

As we wrapped up, Michael provided valuable insights on how to approach high-impact conversations, encouraging listeners to focus on solutions rather than problems. He reminded us that effective leadership begins with disciplined listening, a theme that resonates deeply in the nonprofit sector where building relationships is crucial for success.

I encourage you to visit Michael's website, michaelreddington.com, for more resources and insights. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening episode of the Nonprofit Exchange!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2025 19:31:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Everyday Confessions: Transforming Conversations for Nonprofit Success</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Unlocking Hidden Value: The Art of Disciplined Listening in Leadership</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Michael Reddington, a certified forensic interviewer and the founder of the Disciplined Listening Method. Michael's work focuses on transforming the art of listening into a powerful tool for leaders, enabling them to engage more deeply, build trust, and achieve better results in their conversations.

Michael shared his passion for helping people uncover hidden value in their interactions, emphasizing that many conversations leave much to be desired due to distractions, biases, and assumptions. He highlighted the importance of being a better listener first, which can lead to more effective communication. By observing the nuances of conversations and understanding how to connect with others, leaders can foster stronger relationships and drive better outcomes.

We discussed the significance of contextual awareness in conversations, noting that behaviors can have multiple meanings depending on the situation. Michael stressed the need for leaders to remain outcome-focused and to help others save face, especially when discussing sensitive topics. He also introduced his book, which integrates non-confrontational interview techniques with business communication best practices, aimed at maximizing the value of every conversation.

As we wrapped up, Michael provided valuable insights on how to approach high-impact conversations, encouraging listeners to focus on solutions rather than problems. He reminded us that effective leadership begins with disciplined listening, a theme that resonates deeply in the nonprofit sector where building relationships is crucial for success.

I encourage you to visit Michael's website, michaelreddington.com, for more resources and insights. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening episode of the Nonprofit Exchange!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Michael Reddington, a certified forensic interviewer and the founder of the Disciplined Listening Method. Michael's work focuses on transforming the art of listening into a powerful tool for leaders, enabling them to engage more deeply, build trust, and achieve better results in their conversations.</p>
<p>Michael shared his passion for helping people uncover hidden value in their interactions, emphasizing that many conversations leave much to be desired due to distractions, biases, and assumptions. He highlighted the importance of being a better listener first, which can lead to more effective communication. By observing the nuances of conversations and understanding how to connect with others, leaders can foster stronger relationships and drive better outcomes.</p>
<p>We discussed the significance of contextual awareness in conversations, noting that behaviors can have multiple meanings depending on the situation. Michael stressed the need for leaders to remain outcome-focused and to help others save face, especially when discussing sensitive topics. He also introduced his book, which integrates non-confrontational interview techniques with business communication best practices, aimed at maximizing the value of every conversation.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Michael provided valuable insights on how to approach high-impact conversations, encouraging listeners to focus on solutions rather than problems. He reminded us that effective leadership begins with disciplined listening, a theme that resonates deeply in the nonprofit sector where building relationships is crucial for success.</p>
<p>I encourage you to visit Michael's website, michaelreddington.com, for more resources and insights. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening episode of the Nonprofit Exchange!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1865</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[8e0b6ab6-88fc-11f0-9c9c-43bff3227ae4]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3156837880.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Body Of Change using your body to heal love and empower yourself.</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/08/19/npe-the-body-of-change/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Lisa Cooney, a seasoned expert in psychological, physiological, and energy healing modalities. With over 30 years of experience, Dr. Cooney shared her insights on the transformative power of the body in healing, love, and empowerment, which is the focus of her latest book, The Body of Change.

Dr. Cooney discussed her journey from being a marriage and family therapist to incorporating energy healing into her practice. She emphasized the importance of self-awareness and the need to listen to our bodies, especially in a post-COVID world where many have become disconnected from their physical selves. Her book serves as a guide for readers to become their own inner physicians, featuring reflective exercises to help individuals understand their feelings and make empowered choices.

We delved into the concept of the "four Ds"—denying, defending, dissociating, and disconnecting—highlighting how these patterns can create an invisible cage that limits personal growth. Dr. Cooney also introduced the idea of "micro shifts," encouraging listeners to take small, actionable steps toward their goals rather than feeling overwhelmed by the need for dramatic changes.

A significant part of our conversation revolved around her ROAR method, designed to help individuals reclaim their power after trauma and abuse. Dr. Cooney emphasized the importance of courage in facing one's past and the necessity of creating a safe space for healing.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Cooney shared her belief in the universe as an ally, encouraging listeners to choose positivity and collaboration in their lives. I encourage everyone to explore her work further, including her book and the resources available on her website, DrLisaCooney.com.

Thank you for joining us today, and remember, you are loved!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2025 19:11:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Body Of Change using your body to heal love and empower yourself.</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Healing and Empowerment Through Self-Awareness with Dr. Lisa Cooney</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Lisa Cooney, a seasoned expert in psychological, physiological, and energy healing modalities. With over 30 years of experience, Dr. Cooney shared her insights on the transformative power of the body in healing, love, and empowerment, which is the focus of her latest book, The Body of Change.

Dr. Cooney discussed her journey from being a marriage and family therapist to incorporating energy healing into her practice. She emphasized the importance of self-awareness and the need to listen to our bodies, especially in a post-COVID world where many have become disconnected from their physical selves. Her book serves as a guide for readers to become their own inner physicians, featuring reflective exercises to help individuals understand their feelings and make empowered choices.

We delved into the concept of the "four Ds"—denying, defending, dissociating, and disconnecting—highlighting how these patterns can create an invisible cage that limits personal growth. Dr. Cooney also introduced the idea of "micro shifts," encouraging listeners to take small, actionable steps toward their goals rather than feeling overwhelmed by the need for dramatic changes.

A significant part of our conversation revolved around her ROAR method, designed to help individuals reclaim their power after trauma and abuse. Dr. Cooney emphasized the importance of courage in facing one's past and the necessity of creating a safe space for healing.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Cooney shared her belief in the universe as an ally, encouraging listeners to choose positivity and collaboration in their lives. I encourage everyone to explore her work further, including her book and the resources available on her website, DrLisaCooney.com.

Thank you for joining us today, and remember, you are loved!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Lisa Cooney, a seasoned expert in psychological, physiological, and energy healing modalities. With over 30 years of experience, Dr. Cooney shared her insights on the transformative power of the body in healing, love, and empowerment, which is the focus of her latest book, <em>The Body of Change</em>.</p>
<p>Dr. Cooney discussed her journey from being a marriage and family therapist to incorporating energy healing into her practice. She emphasized the importance of self-awareness and the need to listen to our bodies, especially in a post-COVID world where many have become disconnected from their physical selves. Her book serves as a guide for readers to become their own inner physicians, featuring reflective exercises to help individuals understand their feelings and make empowered choices.</p>
<p>We delved into the concept of the "four Ds"—denying, defending, dissociating, and disconnecting—highlighting how these patterns can create an invisible cage that limits personal growth. Dr. Cooney also introduced the idea of "micro shifts," encouraging listeners to take small, actionable steps toward their goals rather than feeling overwhelmed by the need for dramatic changes.</p>
<p>A significant part of our conversation revolved around her ROAR method, designed to help individuals reclaim their power after trauma and abuse. Dr. Cooney emphasized the importance of courage in facing one's past and the necessity of creating a safe space for healing.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Dr. Cooney shared her belief in the universe as an ally, encouraging listeners to choose positivity and collaboration in their lives. I encourage everyone to explore her work further, including her book and the resources available on her website, DrLisaCooney.com.</p>
<p>Thank you for joining us today, and remember, you are loved!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1400</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[5f0ca522-7d30-11f0-8546-932a495bfa8c]]></guid>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Dealing with Difficult People </title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/08/15/npe-difficult-people/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Brenda Necht-Vatal, a seasoned HR professional turned human results expert. We delved into the challenging topic of dealing with difficult people in various environments, particularly within nonprofits. Brenda shared her extensive experience of over 30 years in navigating interpersonal dynamics, emphasizing the importance of self-leadership and emotional intelligence.

We explored the spectrum of difficult behaviors, from mild misalignment with organizational values to more severe issues like passive-aggressiveness and sabotage. Brenda highlighted how leaders can inadvertently contribute to these problems by failing to uphold core values or by not addressing conflicts effectively. We discussed the difference between productive and destructive conflict, and how leaders often avoid confrontation due to their focus on higher-level objectives or personal hesitations.

Brenda also emphasized the significance of emotional intelligence in leadership, explaining how self-awareness can help leaders manage their reactions and foster healthier workplace relationships. We touched on the myths surrounding nonprofit leadership, particularly the reluctance to address underperforming volunteers, and how this can lead to misunderstandings and resentment among team members.

To wrap up, Brenda introduced her 30-day trust challenge, a resource designed to help leaders build trust and improve their leadership skills through actionable steps. She left us with a powerful reminder that to progress as leaders, we must lead with gratitude and let go of justified resentments.

This conversation was rich with insights and practical advice for anyone looking to enhance their leadership capabilities and navigate the complexities of working with difficult individuals.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2025 22:55:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Dealing with Difficult People </itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Building Trust and Resolving Conflict: Essential Skills for Nonprofit Leaders</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Brenda Necht-Vatal, a seasoned HR professional turned human results expert. We delved into the challenging topic of dealing with difficult people in various environments, particularly within nonprofits. Brenda shared her extensive experience of over 30 years in navigating interpersonal dynamics, emphasizing the importance of self-leadership and emotional intelligence.

We explored the spectrum of difficult behaviors, from mild misalignment with organizational values to more severe issues like passive-aggressiveness and sabotage. Brenda highlighted how leaders can inadvertently contribute to these problems by failing to uphold core values or by not addressing conflicts effectively. We discussed the difference between productive and destructive conflict, and how leaders often avoid confrontation due to their focus on higher-level objectives or personal hesitations.

Brenda also emphasized the significance of emotional intelligence in leadership, explaining how self-awareness can help leaders manage their reactions and foster healthier workplace relationships. We touched on the myths surrounding nonprofit leadership, particularly the reluctance to address underperforming volunteers, and how this can lead to misunderstandings and resentment among team members.

To wrap up, Brenda introduced her 30-day trust challenge, a resource designed to help leaders build trust and improve their leadership skills through actionable steps. She left us with a powerful reminder that to progress as leaders, we must lead with gratitude and let go of justified resentments.

This conversation was rich with insights and practical advice for anyone looking to enhance their leadership capabilities and navigate the complexities of working with difficult individuals.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Brenda Necht-Vatal, a seasoned HR professional turned human results expert. We delved into the challenging topic of dealing with difficult people in various environments, particularly within nonprofits. Brenda shared her extensive experience of over 30 years in navigating interpersonal dynamics, emphasizing the importance of self-leadership and emotional intelligence.</p>
<p>We explored the spectrum of difficult behaviors, from mild misalignment with organizational values to more severe issues like passive-aggressiveness and sabotage. Brenda highlighted how leaders can inadvertently contribute to these problems by failing to uphold core values or by not addressing conflicts effectively. We discussed the difference between productive and destructive conflict, and how leaders often avoid confrontation due to their focus on higher-level objectives or personal hesitations.</p>
<p>Brenda also emphasized the significance of emotional intelligence in leadership, explaining how self-awareness can help leaders manage their reactions and foster healthier workplace relationships. We touched on the myths surrounding nonprofit leadership, particularly the reluctance to address underperforming volunteers, and how this can lead to misunderstandings and resentment among team members.</p>
<p>To wrap up, Brenda introduced her 30-day trust challenge, a resource designed to help leaders build trust and improve their leadership skills through actionable steps. She left us with a powerful reminder that to progress as leaders, we must lead with gratitude and let go of justified resentments.</p>
<p>This conversation was rich with insights and practical advice for anyone looking to enhance their leadership capabilities and navigate the complexities of working with difficult individuals.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1549</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f6cf764a-7a2a-11f0-97de-3b43b5771191]]></guid>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Real Cost of “Business as Usual”</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/08/05/npe-risk-management/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, we dive into the critical topic of project risk management with our guest, Matthew Oleniuk. With over nine years of experience in the nonprofit sector, I have had the privilege of interviewing many insightful individuals, but Matthew brings a unique perspective that we haven't explored before.

Matthew, who specializes in project risk management, shares his journey from working in public sector audit to establishing his own coaching and consulting practice. He highlights the common pitfalls in project management, particularly the tendency to treat risk management as a mere compliance exercise rather than a vital component of achieving project goals.

We discuss the importance of integrating risk management into the project lifecycle, emphasizing that it should not be viewed as a hindrance but rather as a tool to enhance project success. Matthew explains how many organizations fail to recognize the human element in risk management, leading to significant blind spots that can jeopardize project outcomes.

Throughout our conversation, we explore the gaps in project management practices, especially in the nonprofit sector, where many organizations lack a strategic plan. Matthew encourages leaders to adopt a proactive mindset towards risk, suggesting that regular check-ins and open discussions about potential challenges can significantly improve project delivery.

As we wrap up, Matthew introduces his upcoming online training series designed to help organizations stabilize high-risk projects, build effective risk radars, and prevent project drift. He also offers a free downloadable tool, the Project Health Check, which identifies the ten largest public sector risks that often go unaddressed.

This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their project management practices and ultimately achieve their goals. Tune in to learn how embracing risk management can lead to greater success in your projects.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2025 18:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Real Cost of “Business as Usual”</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>From Compliance to Success: Rethinking Risk Management in Nonprofits</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, we dive into the critical topic of project risk management with our guest, Matthew Oleniuk. With over nine years of experience in the nonprofit sector, I have had the privilege of interviewing many insightful individuals, but Matthew brings a unique perspective that we haven't explored before.

Matthew, who specializes in project risk management, shares his journey from working in public sector audit to establishing his own coaching and consulting practice. He highlights the common pitfalls in project management, particularly the tendency to treat risk management as a mere compliance exercise rather than a vital component of achieving project goals.

We discuss the importance of integrating risk management into the project lifecycle, emphasizing that it should not be viewed as a hindrance but rather as a tool to enhance project success. Matthew explains how many organizations fail to recognize the human element in risk management, leading to significant blind spots that can jeopardize project outcomes.

Throughout our conversation, we explore the gaps in project management practices, especially in the nonprofit sector, where many organizations lack a strategic plan. Matthew encourages leaders to adopt a proactive mindset towards risk, suggesting that regular check-ins and open discussions about potential challenges can significantly improve project delivery.

As we wrap up, Matthew introduces his upcoming online training series designed to help organizations stabilize high-risk projects, build effective risk radars, and prevent project drift. He also offers a free downloadable tool, the Project Health Check, which identifies the ten largest public sector risks that often go unaddressed.

This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their project management practices and ultimately achieve their goals. Tune in to learn how embracing risk management can lead to greater success in your projects.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, we dive into the critical topic of project risk management with our guest, Matthew Oleniuk. With over nine years of experience in the nonprofit sector, I have had the privilege of interviewing many insightful individuals, but Matthew brings a unique perspective that we haven't explored before.</p>
<p>Matthew, who specializes in project risk management, shares his journey from working in public sector audit to establishing his own coaching and consulting practice. He highlights the common pitfalls in project management, particularly the tendency to treat risk management as a mere compliance exercise rather than a vital component of achieving project goals.</p>
<p>We discuss the importance of integrating risk management into the project lifecycle, emphasizing that it should not be viewed as a hindrance but rather as a tool to enhance project success. Matthew explains how many organizations fail to recognize the human element in risk management, leading to significant blind spots that can jeopardize project outcomes.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, we explore the gaps in project management practices, especially in the nonprofit sector, where many organizations lack a strategic plan. Matthew encourages leaders to adopt a proactive mindset towards risk, suggesting that regular check-ins and open discussions about potential challenges can significantly improve project delivery.</p>
<p>As we wrap up, Matthew introduces his upcoming online training series designed to help organizations stabilize high-risk projects, build effective risk radars, and prevent project drift. He also offers a free downloadable tool, the Project Health Check, which identifies the ten largest public sector risks that often go unaddressed.</p>
<p>This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their project management practices and ultimately achieve their goals. Tune in to learn how embracing risk management can lead to greater success in your projects.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1580</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[6c297546-6cb4-11f0-a390-2f447922a12a]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4287650013.mp3?updated=1753929613" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Preventing Burnout Through Mindful Leadership</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/07/29/npe-preventing-burnout/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Singh, a passionate advocate for mindful leadership and burnout prevention. With over 23 years of experience in corporate America, Singh faced a significant challenge during a ransomware attack in October 2020, which led him to explore mindful practices that he had unknowingly been using since his youth.

We discussed the alarming issue of burnout among nonprofit leaders, emphasizing that it often stems from a lack of fulfillment in three key areas: gratitude, grace, and personal growth. Singh explained how burnout begins with self-doubt and can escalate into physical manifestations of stress, urging listeners to recognize their body's signals as vital data for transformation.

Singh shared practical strategies for overcoming overwhelm, including three essential questions to ask oneself in any situation to regain focus and clarity. He highlighted the importance of reframing stress into strategic clarity and provided a simple tool called STOP (Stop, Think, Observe, and Proceed) to help individuals manage their emotional states effectively.

We also touched on the myths surrounding nonprofit work, such as overcommitment and the belief that self-care is selfish. Singh emphasized that taking care of oneself is crucial for being able to serve others effectively.

Finally, we explored the role of mindfulness in decision-making, clarifying that mindfulness is about being present and intentional rather than conforming to traditional notions of meditation. Singh's insights and tools offer hope and practical steps for nonprofit leaders to combat burnout and enhance their well-being.

For more information about Singh and his work, listeners can visit his website at singhleadership.com, where they can find resources, engage in his programs, and access his podcast, "Mindful Leadership Transforming Lives."
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2025 21:14:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Preventing Burnout Through Mindful Leadership</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>From Overwhelm to Clarity: Strategies for Nonprofit Leaders</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Singh, a passionate advocate for mindful leadership and burnout prevention. With over 23 years of experience in corporate America, Singh faced a significant challenge during a ransomware attack in October 2020, which led him to explore mindful practices that he had unknowingly been using since his youth.

We discussed the alarming issue of burnout among nonprofit leaders, emphasizing that it often stems from a lack of fulfillment in three key areas: gratitude, grace, and personal growth. Singh explained how burnout begins with self-doubt and can escalate into physical manifestations of stress, urging listeners to recognize their body's signals as vital data for transformation.

Singh shared practical strategies for overcoming overwhelm, including three essential questions to ask oneself in any situation to regain focus and clarity. He highlighted the importance of reframing stress into strategic clarity and provided a simple tool called STOP (Stop, Think, Observe, and Proceed) to help individuals manage their emotional states effectively.

We also touched on the myths surrounding nonprofit work, such as overcommitment and the belief that self-care is selfish. Singh emphasized that taking care of oneself is crucial for being able to serve others effectively.

Finally, we explored the role of mindfulness in decision-making, clarifying that mindfulness is about being present and intentional rather than conforming to traditional notions of meditation. Singh's insights and tools offer hope and practical steps for nonprofit leaders to combat burnout and enhance their well-being.

For more information about Singh and his work, listeners can visit his website at singhleadership.com, where they can find resources, engage in his programs, and access his podcast, "Mindful Leadership Transforming Lives."
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Singh, a passionate advocate for mindful leadership and burnout prevention. With over 23 years of experience in corporate America, Singh faced a significant challenge during a ransomware attack in October 2020, which led him to explore mindful practices that he had unknowingly been using since his youth.</p>
<p>We discussed the alarming issue of burnout among nonprofit leaders, emphasizing that it often stems from a lack of fulfillment in three key areas: gratitude, grace, and personal growth. Singh explained how burnout begins with self-doubt and can escalate into physical manifestations of stress, urging listeners to recognize their body's signals as vital data for transformation.</p>
<p>Singh shared practical strategies for overcoming overwhelm, including three essential questions to ask oneself in any situation to regain focus and clarity. He highlighted the importance of reframing stress into strategic clarity and provided a simple tool called STOP (Stop, Think, Observe, and Proceed) to help individuals manage their emotional states effectively.</p>
<p>We also touched on the myths surrounding nonprofit work, such as overcommitment and the belief that self-care is selfish. Singh emphasized that taking care of oneself is crucial for being able to serve others effectively.</p>
<p>Finally, we explored the role of mindfulness in decision-making, clarifying that mindfulness is about being present and intentional rather than conforming to traditional notions of meditation. Singh's insights and tools offer hope and practical steps for nonprofit leaders to combat burnout and enhance their well-being.</p>
<p>For more information about Singh and his work, listeners can visit his website at singhleadership.com, where they can find resources, engage in his programs, and access his podcast, "Mindful Leadership Transforming Lives."</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1569</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[058d2942-6cc1-11f0-9055-a315d29e4245]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1559401864.mp3?updated=1753914533" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Email Works! Best practices in building and growing an engaged email list for fundraising</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/07/22/npe-email-fundraising/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Vanessa Chase Lockshin, a seasoned fundraising expert with over 15 years of experience in direct response fundraising. Our discussion centered around the critical role of email in building and growing an engaged donor list, particularly for fundraising efforts.

Vanessa shared her passion for helping organizations develop effective email programs that not only raise funds but also foster meaningful relationships with donors. She provided compelling examples, including her work with Variety BC, where a revitalized email strategy led to significant fundraising success and enhanced donor engagement.

We tackled common myths about email communication, such as the misconception that emailing donors too frequently can lead to disengagement. Vanessa emphasized the importance of regular communication, suggesting a frequency of one to two weeks to keep donors informed and engaged. We also explored the significance of storytelling in emails, highlighting how emotional narratives can resonate with donors and inspire them to give.

Vanessa offered practical advice on email length, content strategy, and the importance of using a reliable email delivery platform to ensure messages reach their intended audience. We discussed the balance between storytelling and fundraising asks, advocating for a thoughtful approach to when and how to solicit donations.

As we wrapped up, Vanessa encouraged listeners to rethink their email strategies and consider the vast potential of email as a tool for relationship building and fundraising. She also shared resources available on her website, thestorytellingnonprofit.com, including articles and her book, "The Storytelling Nonprofit."

This episode is a treasure trove of insights for nonprofit professionals looking to enhance their email communication and fundraising efforts. I hope you find inspiration in Vanessa's expertise and take actionable steps to improve your email strategy!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2025 22:44:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Email Works! Best practices in building and growing an engaged email list for fundraising</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Building Relationships Through Email: A Guide to Engaging Donors</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Vanessa Chase Lockshin, a seasoned fundraising expert with over 15 years of experience in direct response fundraising. Our discussion centered around the critical role of email in building and growing an engaged donor list, particularly for fundraising efforts.

Vanessa shared her passion for helping organizations develop effective email programs that not only raise funds but also foster meaningful relationships with donors. She provided compelling examples, including her work with Variety BC, where a revitalized email strategy led to significant fundraising success and enhanced donor engagement.

We tackled common myths about email communication, such as the misconception that emailing donors too frequently can lead to disengagement. Vanessa emphasized the importance of regular communication, suggesting a frequency of one to two weeks to keep donors informed and engaged. We also explored the significance of storytelling in emails, highlighting how emotional narratives can resonate with donors and inspire them to give.

Vanessa offered practical advice on email length, content strategy, and the importance of using a reliable email delivery platform to ensure messages reach their intended audience. We discussed the balance between storytelling and fundraising asks, advocating for a thoughtful approach to when and how to solicit donations.

As we wrapped up, Vanessa encouraged listeners to rethink their email strategies and consider the vast potential of email as a tool for relationship building and fundraising. She also shared resources available on her website, thestorytellingnonprofit.com, including articles and her book, "The Storytelling Nonprofit."

This episode is a treasure trove of insights for nonprofit professionals looking to enhance their email communication and fundraising efforts. I hope you find inspiration in Vanessa's expertise and take actionable steps to improve your email strategy!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Vanessa Chase Lockshin, a seasoned fundraising expert with over 15 years of experience in direct response fundraising. Our discussion centered around the critical role of email in building and growing an engaged donor list, particularly for fundraising efforts.</p>
<p>Vanessa shared her passion for helping organizations develop effective email programs that not only raise funds but also foster meaningful relationships with donors. She provided compelling examples, including her work with Variety BC, where a revitalized email strategy led to significant fundraising success and enhanced donor engagement.</p>
<p>We tackled common myths about email communication, such as the misconception that emailing donors too frequently can lead to disengagement. Vanessa emphasized the importance of regular communication, suggesting a frequency of one to two weeks to keep donors informed and engaged. We also explored the significance of storytelling in emails, highlighting how emotional narratives can resonate with donors and inspire them to give.</p>
<p>Vanessa offered practical advice on email length, content strategy, and the importance of using a reliable email delivery platform to ensure messages reach their intended audience. We discussed the balance between storytelling and fundraising asks, advocating for a thoughtful approach to when and how to solicit donations.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Vanessa encouraged listeners to rethink their email strategies and consider the vast potential of email as a tool for relationship building and fundraising. She also shared resources available on her website, thestorytellingnonprofit.com, including articles and her book, "The Storytelling Nonprofit."</p>
<p>This episode is a treasure trove of insights for nonprofit professionals looking to enhance their email communication and fundraising efforts. I hope you find inspiration in Vanessa's expertise and take actionable steps to improve your email strategy!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1643</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[6ddf7e2e-674d-11f0-8ad1-a3f815b33c80]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2817020468.mp3?updated=1753929793" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Transforming Fundraising: From Begging to Building Relationships with James Meisner</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/07/15/npe-fundraising-forward/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with James Meisner, founder of the Kipos Group, about the often misunderstood world of fundraising for nonprofits. James shared his extensive background in nonprofit leadership and his passion for solving some of society's most challenging problems through effective fundraising strategies.

We discussed two major misconceptions that nonprofit leaders often hold: the belief that people are reluctant to give money and the assumption that funding primarily comes from grants and foundations. James emphasized that individual donors contribute the majority of philanthropic dollars in the U.S. and that they derive immense joy from giving. He encouraged nonprofit leaders to shift their mindset from a "begging" mentality to one of providing value to potential donors.

James also highlighted the importance of having a well-defined case for support, which serves as a foundational document for communicating an organization's mission and impact. He stressed that successful nonprofits must demonstrate their effectiveness through compelling stories and data, which resonate emotionally with potential donors.

We explored the significance of differentiating an organization’s unique value proposition and how to effectively communicate impact. James provided practical advice on how to engage donors by starting with personal stories that illustrate the difference their contributions can make.

As we wrapped up, James shared a powerful metaphor about planting seeds in a garden, reminding us that even the smallest efforts can grow into something significant with proper care and cultivation. This episode is a call to action for nonprofit leaders to embrace the fundraising process as a vital part of their mission to create positive change in the world.

For more insights and resources, listeners are encouraged to visit thekiposgroup.com, where they can find valuable guides and schedule a free consultation with James.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2025 20:26:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Transforming Fundraising: From Begging to Building Relationships with James Meisner</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Navigating Nonprofit Challenges: Strategies for Sustainable Funding</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with James Meisner, founder of the Kipos Group, about the often misunderstood world of fundraising for nonprofits. James shared his extensive background in nonprofit leadership and his passion for solving some of society's most challenging problems through effective fundraising strategies.

We discussed two major misconceptions that nonprofit leaders often hold: the belief that people are reluctant to give money and the assumption that funding primarily comes from grants and foundations. James emphasized that individual donors contribute the majority of philanthropic dollars in the U.S. and that they derive immense joy from giving. He encouraged nonprofit leaders to shift their mindset from a "begging" mentality to one of providing value to potential donors.

James also highlighted the importance of having a well-defined case for support, which serves as a foundational document for communicating an organization's mission and impact. He stressed that successful nonprofits must demonstrate their effectiveness through compelling stories and data, which resonate emotionally with potential donors.

We explored the significance of differentiating an organization’s unique value proposition and how to effectively communicate impact. James provided practical advice on how to engage donors by starting with personal stories that illustrate the difference their contributions can make.

As we wrapped up, James shared a powerful metaphor about planting seeds in a garden, reminding us that even the smallest efforts can grow into something significant with proper care and cultivation. This episode is a call to action for nonprofit leaders to embrace the fundraising process as a vital part of their mission to create positive change in the world.

For more insights and resources, listeners are encouraged to visit thekiposgroup.com, where they can find valuable guides and schedule a free consultation with James.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with James Meisner, founder of the Kipos Group, about the often misunderstood world of fundraising for nonprofits. James shared his extensive background in nonprofit leadership and his passion for solving some of society's most challenging problems through effective fundraising strategies.</p>
<p>We discussed two major misconceptions that nonprofit leaders often hold: the belief that people are reluctant to give money and the assumption that funding primarily comes from grants and foundations. James emphasized that individual donors contribute the majority of philanthropic dollars in the U.S. and that they derive immense joy from giving. He encouraged nonprofit leaders to shift their mindset from a "begging" mentality to one of providing value to potential donors.</p>
<p>James also highlighted the importance of having a well-defined case for support, which serves as a foundational document for communicating an organization's mission and impact. He stressed that successful nonprofits must demonstrate their effectiveness through compelling stories and data, which resonate emotionally with potential donors.</p>
<p>We explored the significance of differentiating an organization’s unique value proposition and how to effectively communicate impact. James provided practical advice on how to engage donors by starting with personal stories that illustrate the difference their contributions can make.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, James shared a powerful metaphor about planting seeds in a garden, reminding us that even the smallest efforts can grow into something significant with proper care and cultivation. This episode is a call to action for nonprofit leaders to embrace the fundraising process as a vital part of their mission to create positive change in the world.</p>
<p>For more insights and resources, listeners are encouraged to visit thekiposgroup.com, where they can find valuable guides and schedule a free consultation with James.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1652</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f4371930-61b9-11f0-a2c6-17a9f184c325]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5608468911.mp3?updated=1752611475" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Terms and Conditions of Value Based Leadership</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/07/01/npe-value-based-leadership/</link>
      <description>In this episode of theNonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Noah Massey, a seasoned leader with over 42 years of experience at UPS. Noah shared his journey from a college student working to pay for his education to becoming a high-level executive, emphasizing the importance of value-based leadership throughout his career.

We discussed the concept of leadership as the ability to influence individuals or groups towards positive outcomes, highlighting the significance of coaching and development in leadership roles. Noah's insights on the "terms and conditions" of leadership were particularly enlightening, as he explained how every individual has their own set of expectations that must be acknowledged for effective team dynamics.

Noah also introduced his book, "Been Promoted: Your Guide for New Leaders and Their Teams," which aims to support newly promoted leaders, especially in the nonprofit sector. He emphasized the need for intentional leadership, where leaders articulate their values and establish a congruence within their teams.

Throughout our conversation, Noah shared powerful anecdotes and practical techniques, such as the "four by five method" for handling challenging situations and the importance of listening as both a skill and a value. He underscored that leadership is not just about achieving results but about investing in the development of others.

As we wrapped up, Noah left us with a profound reminder: "You can't hope to get more than you give." This principle serves as a guiding light for leaders who aspire to foster high-performing teams. I encourage our listeners to reflect on their own leadership journeys and consider how they can invest in the people they lead.

For more insights and resources, be sure to check out Noah's website at noelmassey.com, where you can find his book and a masterclass that expands on the topics we discussed. Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2025 19:15:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Terms and Conditions of Value Based Leadership</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Navigating Leadership Challenges: Practical Strategies for New Leaders</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of theNonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Noah Massey, a seasoned leader with over 42 years of experience at UPS. Noah shared his journey from a college student working to pay for his education to becoming a high-level executive, emphasizing the importance of value-based leadership throughout his career.

We discussed the concept of leadership as the ability to influence individuals or groups towards positive outcomes, highlighting the significance of coaching and development in leadership roles. Noah's insights on the "terms and conditions" of leadership were particularly enlightening, as he explained how every individual has their own set of expectations that must be acknowledged for effective team dynamics.

Noah also introduced his book, "Been Promoted: Your Guide for New Leaders and Their Teams," which aims to support newly promoted leaders, especially in the nonprofit sector. He emphasized the need for intentional leadership, where leaders articulate their values and establish a congruence within their teams.

Throughout our conversation, Noah shared powerful anecdotes and practical techniques, such as the "four by five method" for handling challenging situations and the importance of listening as both a skill and a value. He underscored that leadership is not just about achieving results but about investing in the development of others.

As we wrapped up, Noah left us with a profound reminder: "You can't hope to get more than you give." This principle serves as a guiding light for leaders who aspire to foster high-performing teams. I encourage our listeners to reflect on their own leadership journeys and consider how they can invest in the people they lead.

For more insights and resources, be sure to check out Noah's website at noelmassey.com, where you can find his book and a masterclass that expands on the topics we discussed. Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of theNonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Noah Massey, a seasoned leader with over 42 years of experience at UPS. Noah shared his journey from a college student working to pay for his education to becoming a high-level executive, emphasizing the importance of value-based leadership throughout his career.</p>
<p>We discussed the concept of leadership as the ability to influence individuals or groups towards positive outcomes, highlighting the significance of coaching and development in leadership roles. Noah's insights on the "terms and conditions" of leadership were particularly enlightening, as he explained how every individual has their own set of expectations that must be acknowledged for effective team dynamics.</p>
<p>Noah also introduced his book, "Been Promoted: Your Guide for New Leaders and Their Teams," which aims to support newly promoted leaders, especially in the nonprofit sector. He emphasized the need for intentional leadership, where leaders articulate their values and establish a congruence within their teams.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, Noah shared powerful anecdotes and practical techniques, such as the "four by five method" for handling challenging situations and the importance of listening as both a skill and a value. He underscored that leadership is not just about achieving results but about investing in the development of others.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Noah left us with a profound reminder: "You can't hope to get more than you give." This principle serves as a guiding light for leaders who aspire to foster high-performing teams. I encourage our listeners to reflect on their own leadership journeys and consider how they can invest in the people they lead.</p>
<p>For more insights and resources, be sure to check out Noah's website at noelmassey.com, where you can find his book and a masterclass that expands on the topics we discussed. Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1797</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[cc1d3d40-56af-11f0-b9a8-ff5ec709e2bd]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8361831897.mp3?updated=1751397650" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Creating a Joy-Filled Culture</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/06/25/npe-joy-filled-culture/</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2025 14:26:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Creating a Joy-Filled Culture</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Power of Joy in Nonprofit Leadership and Giving</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1512</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[689cd2c8-51d0-11f0-8a47-7f6e8b25d215]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1990075396.mp3?updated=1750861900" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Financial Therapy: Helping Nonprofit Leaders Overcome Financial Anxiety</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/06/16/npe-financial-therapy/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with John Hankins, a financial therapist with a rich background in both the nonprofit and for-profit sectors. We delved into the critical topic of financial therapy and how it can help nonprofit leaders overcome financial anxiety.

John shared his journey, starting from his early days as a CFO in a small nonprofit to his transition into financial therapy after witnessing the anxiety many nonprofit leaders face when managing funds they’ve never encountered before. He emphasized the importance of understanding our personal money stories and how they shape our relationship with money.

We discussed the contrast between healthy and unhealthy relationships with money, highlighting how misalignment between our financial goals, feelings, and actions can lead to anxiety. John pointed out that societal pressures and the stigma around discussing money contribute to this anxiety, especially in the nonprofit sector, where leaders often feel guilty about raising funds.

John introduced the concept of financial therapy as an essential overlay to traditional therapy, aimed at building a positive relationship with money. He also mentioned the Financial Therapy Association, which bridges the gap between financial planning and emotional well-being.

Throughout our conversation, we explored the behaviors that can hinder nonprofit leaders, such as reluctance to engage with financial details and feelings of shame around money. John encouraged listeners to recognize that it’s okay to talk about money and to seek help in navigating their financial relationships.

As we wrapped up, John offered a valuable reminder: everyone has a relationship with money, regardless of their financial situation, and exploring that relationship can lead to significant improvements in both personal and professional life. I hope this episode inspires nonprofit leaders to address their financial anxieties and consider the benefits of financial therapy.



Get the full transcript at - https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/06/16/npe-financial-therapy/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2025 18:12:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Financial Therapy: Helping Nonprofit Leaders Overcome Financial Anxiety</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Transforming Financial Anxiety into Empowerment: Insights from Financial Therapy</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with John Hankins, a financial therapist with a rich background in both the nonprofit and for-profit sectors. We delved into the critical topic of financial therapy and how it can help nonprofit leaders overcome financial anxiety.

John shared his journey, starting from his early days as a CFO in a small nonprofit to his transition into financial therapy after witnessing the anxiety many nonprofit leaders face when managing funds they’ve never encountered before. He emphasized the importance of understanding our personal money stories and how they shape our relationship with money.

We discussed the contrast between healthy and unhealthy relationships with money, highlighting how misalignment between our financial goals, feelings, and actions can lead to anxiety. John pointed out that societal pressures and the stigma around discussing money contribute to this anxiety, especially in the nonprofit sector, where leaders often feel guilty about raising funds.

John introduced the concept of financial therapy as an essential overlay to traditional therapy, aimed at building a positive relationship with money. He also mentioned the Financial Therapy Association, which bridges the gap between financial planning and emotional well-being.

Throughout our conversation, we explored the behaviors that can hinder nonprofit leaders, such as reluctance to engage with financial details and feelings of shame around money. John encouraged listeners to recognize that it’s okay to talk about money and to seek help in navigating their financial relationships.

As we wrapped up, John offered a valuable reminder: everyone has a relationship with money, regardless of their financial situation, and exploring that relationship can lead to significant improvements in both personal and professional life. I hope this episode inspires nonprofit leaders to address their financial anxieties and consider the benefits of financial therapy.



Get the full transcript at - https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/06/16/npe-financial-therapy/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with John Hankins, a financial therapist with a rich background in both the nonprofit and for-profit sectors. We delved into the critical topic of financial therapy and how it can help nonprofit leaders overcome financial anxiety.</p>
<p>John shared his journey, starting from his early days as a CFO in a small nonprofit to his transition into financial therapy after witnessing the anxiety many nonprofit leaders face when managing funds they’ve never encountered before. He emphasized the importance of understanding our personal money stories and how they shape our relationship with money.</p>
<p>We discussed the contrast between healthy and unhealthy relationships with money, highlighting how misalignment between our financial goals, feelings, and actions can lead to anxiety. John pointed out that societal pressures and the stigma around discussing money contribute to this anxiety, especially in the nonprofit sector, where leaders often feel guilty about raising funds.</p>
<p>John introduced the concept of financial therapy as an essential overlay to traditional therapy, aimed at building a positive relationship with money. He also mentioned the Financial Therapy Association, which bridges the gap between financial planning and emotional well-being.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, we explored the behaviors that can hinder nonprofit leaders, such as reluctance to engage with financial details and feelings of shame around money. John encouraged listeners to recognize that it’s okay to talk about money and to seek help in navigating their financial relationships.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, John offered a valuable reminder: everyone has a relationship with money, regardless of their financial situation, and exploring that relationship can lead to significant improvements in both personal and professional life. I hope this episode inspires nonprofit leaders to address their financial anxieties and consider the benefits of financial therapy.</p>
<p><br></p>
<p>Get the full transcript at - <a href="https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/06/16/npe-financial-therapy/"><strong>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/06/16/npe-financial-therapy/</strong></a><strong></strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1655</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[711fc904-4add-11f0-9713-0f284629eea5]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7821897391.mp3?updated=1750097840" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Cut Through the Noise, Clear the Static: How Awareness Guides You</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/06/10/npe-cut-through-the-noise/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of reconnecting with Lora Lapiz, a dynamic individual with a rich background in neuroscience, public health, and various industries, including nonprofit and government policy. Our discussion centered around the theme "Cut Through the Noise, Clear the Static," emphasizing the importance of awareness in leadership.

Laura shared her insights on how leaders often overlook the signals the universe sends us, which can lead to missed opportunities and blind spots in our interactions. We explored the concept of personal awareness, highlighting that understanding ourselves is crucial for effectively leading our teams and organizations.

One of the key takeaways was Laura's framework of the "three R's": Release, Receive, and Resolve. She explained that to foster growth and transformation, we must let go of what no longer serves us, be open to receiving new insights, and have the courage to act on them.

We also discussed the significance of deep listening and creating a non-judgmental environment where team members feel safe to express their thoughts. Laura emphasized that by observing and understanding the dynamics within a team, leaders can better address the underlying issues that may be hindering progress.

As we wrapped up, Laura posed a thought-provoking question to our audience: "What is the message that has been circulating around you that you've been avoiding?" This challenge encourages listeners to reflect on their own experiences and consider how they can apply the principles we discussed to enhance their leadership journey.

I hope you find this episode inspiring and that it prompts you to cultivate greater awareness in your leadership practice. Thank you for tuning in!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2025 17:59:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Cut Through the Noise, Clear the Static: How Awareness Guides You</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Three R 's of Leadership: Release, Receive, and Resolve</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of reconnecting with Lora Lapiz, a dynamic individual with a rich background in neuroscience, public health, and various industries, including nonprofit and government policy. Our discussion centered around the theme "Cut Through the Noise, Clear the Static," emphasizing the importance of awareness in leadership.

Laura shared her insights on how leaders often overlook the signals the universe sends us, which can lead to missed opportunities and blind spots in our interactions. We explored the concept of personal awareness, highlighting that understanding ourselves is crucial for effectively leading our teams and organizations.

One of the key takeaways was Laura's framework of the "three R's": Release, Receive, and Resolve. She explained that to foster growth and transformation, we must let go of what no longer serves us, be open to receiving new insights, and have the courage to act on them.

We also discussed the significance of deep listening and creating a non-judgmental environment where team members feel safe to express their thoughts. Laura emphasized that by observing and understanding the dynamics within a team, leaders can better address the underlying issues that may be hindering progress.

As we wrapped up, Laura posed a thought-provoking question to our audience: "What is the message that has been circulating around you that you've been avoiding?" This challenge encourages listeners to reflect on their own experiences and consider how they can apply the principles we discussed to enhance their leadership journey.

I hope you find this episode inspiring and that it prompts you to cultivate greater awareness in your leadership practice. Thank you for tuning in!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of reconnecting with Lora Lapiz, a dynamic individual with a rich background in neuroscience, public health, and various industries, including nonprofit and government policy. Our discussion centered around the theme "Cut Through the Noise, Clear the Static," emphasizing the importance of awareness in leadership.</p>
<p>Laura shared her insights on how leaders often overlook the signals the universe sends us, which can lead to missed opportunities and blind spots in our interactions. We explored the concept of personal awareness, highlighting that understanding ourselves is crucial for effectively leading our teams and organizations.</p>
<p>One of the key takeaways was Laura's framework of the "three R's": Release, Receive, and Resolve. She explained that to foster growth and transformation, we must let go of what no longer serves us, be open to receiving new insights, and have the courage to act on them.</p>
<p>We also discussed the significance of deep listening and creating a non-judgmental environment where team members feel safe to express their thoughts. Laura emphasized that by observing and understanding the dynamics within a team, leaders can better address the underlying issues that may be hindering progress.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Laura posed a thought-provoking question to our audience: "What is the message that has been circulating around you that you've been avoiding?" This challenge encourages listeners to reflect on their own experiences and consider how they can apply the principles we discussed to enhance their leadership journey.</p>
<p>I hope you find this episode inspiring and that it prompts you to cultivate greater awareness in your leadership practice. Thank you for tuning in!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1503</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[ccc0121e-4605-11f0-8fcf-e7ff2490dd5f]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3380862413.mp3?updated=1749565438" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Life is not a sprint, it’s a Marathon. Keep Running!</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/06/03/npe-keep-running/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with John Graham, the founder of Good Samaritan Home, a nonprofit dedicated to helping individuals reintegrate into society after incarceration. At 77 years old, John shared his remarkable journey, which includes a diverse career path and a commitment to providing second chances for those who have faced significant challenges.

John's story began with a series of career detours, leading him and his wife to open their home as a shelter for individuals coming out of prison. Over the past 25 years, they have expanded from one house to 21, helping over 2,500 people restart their lives. John emphasized the importance of community support and building relationships, even in the face of opposition from neighbors and local authorities.

Throughout our conversation, John highlighted the challenges of running a nonprofit, particularly the financial struggles and the stigma associated with helping formerly incarcerated individuals. He shared how their faith and commitment to serving others motivated them to persevere, focusing on meeting the needs of the community without judgment.

We also discussed the impact of their work on individuals like "Jimmy," a mentally unstable veteran who found a home and a sense of belonging at Good Samaritan Home for 14 years. John's insights into the importance of accountability and responsibility in rehabilitation were profound, emphasizing a shift from "I" to "we" in the recovery process.

John's recent book, "Running As Fast As I Can," encapsulates his journey and the message of hope and second chances. He encourages listeners to keep striving for their goals, regardless of their past or the obstacles they face. This episode serves as a powerful reminder of the resilience of the human spirit and the transformative power of compassion and community support.

More at - https://goodsamaritanhome.org/ and

https://johndavidgraham.com/


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2025 19:12:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Life is not a sprint, it’s a Marathon. Keep Running!</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>From Outcast to Advocate: The Power of Community and Second Chances</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with John Graham, the founder of Good Samaritan Home, a nonprofit dedicated to helping individuals reintegrate into society after incarceration. At 77 years old, John shared his remarkable journey, which includes a diverse career path and a commitment to providing second chances for those who have faced significant challenges.

John's story began with a series of career detours, leading him and his wife to open their home as a shelter for individuals coming out of prison. Over the past 25 years, they have expanded from one house to 21, helping over 2,500 people restart their lives. John emphasized the importance of community support and building relationships, even in the face of opposition from neighbors and local authorities.

Throughout our conversation, John highlighted the challenges of running a nonprofit, particularly the financial struggles and the stigma associated with helping formerly incarcerated individuals. He shared how their faith and commitment to serving others motivated them to persevere, focusing on meeting the needs of the community without judgment.

We also discussed the impact of their work on individuals like "Jimmy," a mentally unstable veteran who found a home and a sense of belonging at Good Samaritan Home for 14 years. John's insights into the importance of accountability and responsibility in rehabilitation were profound, emphasizing a shift from "I" to "we" in the recovery process.

John's recent book, "Running As Fast As I Can," encapsulates his journey and the message of hope and second chances. He encourages listeners to keep striving for their goals, regardless of their past or the obstacles they face. This episode serves as a powerful reminder of the resilience of the human spirit and the transformative power of compassion and community support.

More at - https://goodsamaritanhome.org/ and

https://johndavidgraham.com/


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with John Graham, the founder of Good Samaritan Home, a nonprofit dedicated to helping individuals reintegrate into society after incarceration. At 77 years old, John shared his remarkable journey, which includes a diverse career path and a commitment to providing second chances for those who have faced significant challenges.</p>
<p>John's story began with a series of career detours, leading him and his wife to open their home as a shelter for individuals coming out of prison. Over the past 25 years, they have expanded from one house to 21, helping over 2,500 people restart their lives. John emphasized the importance of community support and building relationships, even in the face of opposition from neighbors and local authorities.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, John highlighted the challenges of running a nonprofit, particularly the financial struggles and the stigma associated with helping formerly incarcerated individuals. He shared how their faith and commitment to serving others motivated them to persevere, focusing on meeting the needs of the community without judgment.</p>
<p>We also discussed the impact of their work on individuals like "Jimmy," a mentally unstable veteran who found a home and a sense of belonging at Good Samaritan Home for 14 years. John's insights into the importance of accountability and responsibility in rehabilitation were profound, emphasizing a shift from "I" to "we" in the recovery process.</p>
<p>John's recent book, "Running As Fast As I Can," encapsulates his journey and the message of hope and second chances. He encourages listeners to keep striving for their goals, regardless of their past or the obstacles they face. This episode serves as a powerful reminder of the resilience of the human spirit and the transformative power of compassion and community support.</p>
<p>More at - <a href="https://goodsamaritanhome.org/">https://goodsamaritanhome.org/</a> and</p>
<p><a href="https://johndavidgraham.com/">https://johndavidgraham.com/</a></p>
<p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1571</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[b68b30ac-40ae-11f0-bb94-dbdb04e79931]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3540875675.mp3?updated=1748978259" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Intentions Impact Our Reality</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/05/27/npe-intentions/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Topher Taylor, a seasoned professional from the entertainment industry who has transitioned into exploring the power of intention. Topher has an impressive background, having worked on numerous beloved children's shows and earned a PhD in policy planning and development. His passion for understanding the human experience led him to study how intentions can impact our reality.

Topher shared fascinating insights from his research, particularly how intention can influence not just individual lives but also broader systems, including organizations and communities. He discussed compelling experiments that demonstrate how positive intentions can lead to tangible outcomes, such as improved health and performance. One notable example involved a study where athletes experienced enhanced performance through the power of intention, highlighting the interconnectedness of our thoughts and actions.

We delved into the importance of clarity in our intentions, both as individuals and organizations, and how this clarity can guide our actions and decisions. Topher emphasized that by setting positive intentions for ourselves and those we serve, we can create a ripple effect that benefits our communities.

As we wrapped up, Topher encouraged listeners to practice sending healing and positive intentions to themselves and others, suggesting that this practice could lead to transformative changes in their lives. This conversation was not only enlightening but also a reminder of the profound impact we can have when we lead with intention and compassion in our work.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2025 22:23:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Intentions Impact Our Reality</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Science of Intention: How Positive Thoughts Shape Our World</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Topher Taylor, a seasoned professional from the entertainment industry who has transitioned into exploring the power of intention. Topher has an impressive background, having worked on numerous beloved children's shows and earned a PhD in policy planning and development. His passion for understanding the human experience led him to study how intentions can impact our reality.

Topher shared fascinating insights from his research, particularly how intention can influence not just individual lives but also broader systems, including organizations and communities. He discussed compelling experiments that demonstrate how positive intentions can lead to tangible outcomes, such as improved health and performance. One notable example involved a study where athletes experienced enhanced performance through the power of intention, highlighting the interconnectedness of our thoughts and actions.

We delved into the importance of clarity in our intentions, both as individuals and organizations, and how this clarity can guide our actions and decisions. Topher emphasized that by setting positive intentions for ourselves and those we serve, we can create a ripple effect that benefits our communities.

As we wrapped up, Topher encouraged listeners to practice sending healing and positive intentions to themselves and others, suggesting that this practice could lead to transformative changes in their lives. This conversation was not only enlightening but also a reminder of the profound impact we can have when we lead with intention and compassion in our work.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Topher Taylor, a seasoned professional from the entertainment industry who has transitioned into exploring the power of intention. Topher has an impressive background, having worked on numerous beloved children's shows and earned a PhD in policy planning and development. His passion for understanding the human experience led him to study how intentions can impact our reality.</p>
<p>Topher shared fascinating insights from his research, particularly how intention can influence not just individual lives but also broader systems, including organizations and communities. He discussed compelling experiments that demonstrate how positive intentions can lead to tangible outcomes, such as improved health and performance. One notable example involved a study where athletes experienced enhanced performance through the power of intention, highlighting the interconnectedness of our thoughts and actions.</p>
<p>We delved into the importance of clarity in our intentions, both as individuals and organizations, and how this clarity can guide our actions and decisions. Topher emphasized that by setting positive intentions for ourselves and those we serve, we can create a ripple effect that benefits our communities.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Topher encouraged listeners to practice sending healing and positive intentions to themselves and others, suggesting that this practice could lead to transformative changes in their lives. This conversation was not only enlightening but also a reminder of the profound impact we can have when we lead with intention and compassion in our work.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1625</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[369ee66e-3b49-11f0-91e1-9f06229382c3]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7047301742.mp3?updated=1748384910" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Bridging the Gap: Addressing Healthcare Needs in Jamaica with Innovative Nonprofit Solutions</title>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Paddy Shannon, the founder of Great Works, Inc., a nonprofit dedicated to enhancing healthcare access in Jamaica and beyond. Paddy shared his inspiring journey, which began over 15 years ago when he accompanied his wife on a dental mission trip to Jamaica. What started as a reluctant trip turned into a passionate commitment to serve the underserved populations in the region.

The episode's title, "Unlocking Healthcare Potential: Building a Collaborative Mobile Infrastructure for Nonprofits," reflects Paddy's vision of creating a robust infrastructure that allows medical and dental professionals to focus on their work without the burden of logistical challenges. He emphasized the importance of collaboration, explaining how his organization aims to provide the necessary equipment and support for various healthcare initiatives, allowing volunteers to concentrate on delivering care.

Paddy discussed the significant need for healthcare services in Jamaica, where many people line up for hours to receive treatment. Despite the existence of nationalized healthcare, access remains limited, and Paddy's organization seeks to fill that gap by offering free services to patients. He highlighted the impact of their work, noting that the organization he has been involved with has treated over 350,000 patients in Jamaica alone.

We also explored the collaborative aspect of Paddy's work, where he invites other nonprofits and medical professionals to utilize the infrastructure he is building. By providing the necessary equipment and support, Paddy hopes to empower more volunteers to engage in meaningful service without the logistical headaches that often accompany such missions.

As we wrapped up the conversation, Paddy shared insights into the formation of Great Works, Inc., and his vision for expanding its reach to other Caribbean countries. His enthusiasm for creating a sustainable model for healthcare delivery is truly inspiring, and I encourage anyone interested in volunteering or supporting this important work to connect with Great Works, Inc.

This episode is a testament to the power of collaboration and the impact that dedicated individuals can have on communities in need. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you find inspiration in Paddy's story and the work being done through Great Works, Inc.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2025 21:48:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle></itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Paddy Shannon, the founder of Great Works, Inc., a nonprofit dedicated to enhancing healthcare access in Jamaica and beyond. Paddy shared his inspiring journey, which began over 15 years ago when he accompanied his wife on a dental mission trip to Jamaica. What started as a reluctant trip turned into a passionate commitment to serve the underserved populations in the region.

The episode's title, "Unlocking Healthcare Potential: Building a Collaborative Mobile Infrastructure for Nonprofits," reflects Paddy's vision of creating a robust infrastructure that allows medical and dental professionals to focus on their work without the burden of logistical challenges. He emphasized the importance of collaboration, explaining how his organization aims to provide the necessary equipment and support for various healthcare initiatives, allowing volunteers to concentrate on delivering care.

Paddy discussed the significant need for healthcare services in Jamaica, where many people line up for hours to receive treatment. Despite the existence of nationalized healthcare, access remains limited, and Paddy's organization seeks to fill that gap by offering free services to patients. He highlighted the impact of their work, noting that the organization he has been involved with has treated over 350,000 patients in Jamaica alone.

We also explored the collaborative aspect of Paddy's work, where he invites other nonprofits and medical professionals to utilize the infrastructure he is building. By providing the necessary equipment and support, Paddy hopes to empower more volunteers to engage in meaningful service without the logistical headaches that often accompany such missions.

As we wrapped up the conversation, Paddy shared insights into the formation of Great Works, Inc., and his vision for expanding its reach to other Caribbean countries. His enthusiasm for creating a sustainable model for healthcare delivery is truly inspiring, and I encourage anyone interested in volunteering or supporting this important work to connect with Great Works, Inc.

This episode is a testament to the power of collaboration and the impact that dedicated individuals can have on communities in need. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you find inspiration in Paddy's story and the work being done through Great Works, Inc.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Paddy Shannon, the founder of Great Works, Inc., a nonprofit dedicated to enhancing healthcare access in Jamaica and beyond. Paddy shared his inspiring journey, which began over 15 years ago when he accompanied his wife on a dental mission trip to Jamaica. What started as a reluctant trip turned into a passionate commitment to serve the underserved populations in the region.</p>
<p>The episode's title, "Unlocking Healthcare Potential: Building a Collaborative Mobile Infrastructure for Nonprofits," reflects Paddy's vision of creating a robust infrastructure that allows medical and dental professionals to focus on their work without the burden of logistical challenges. He emphasized the importance of collaboration, explaining how his organization aims to provide the necessary equipment and support for various healthcare initiatives, allowing volunteers to concentrate on delivering care.</p>
<p>Paddy discussed the significant need for healthcare services in Jamaica, where many people line up for hours to receive treatment. Despite the existence of nationalized healthcare, access remains limited, and Paddy's organization seeks to fill that gap by offering free services to patients. He highlighted the impact of their work, noting that the organization he has been involved with has treated over 350,000 patients in Jamaica alone.</p>
<p>We also explored the collaborative aspect of Paddy's work, where he invites other nonprofits and medical professionals to utilize the infrastructure he is building. By providing the necessary equipment and support, Paddy hopes to empower more volunteers to engage in meaningful service without the logistical headaches that often accompany such missions.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up the conversation, Paddy shared insights into the formation of Great Works, Inc., and his vision for expanding its reach to other Caribbean countries. His enthusiasm for creating a sustainable model for healthcare delivery is truly inspiring, and I encourage anyone interested in volunteering or supporting this important work to connect with Great Works, Inc.</p>
<p>This episode is a testament to the power of collaboration and the impact that dedicated individuals can have on communities in need. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you find inspiration in Paddy's story and the work being done through Great Works, Inc.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1688</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[265ebe1c-35c4-11f0-b127-43cabf844578]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2590322704.mp3?updated=1747778002" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Building Strong Teams: Recruiting, Developing, and Rewarding Talent in Nonprofits</title>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Richard Stern, an experienced leader in the nonprofit sector, specifically in mental health services. Richard shared his journey from intern to executive leadership at Door of Hope, a social services nonprofit that provides vital mental health support across the tri-state area.

Our discussion centered around the critical topic of team dynamics within nonprofits—specifically, how to effectively recruit, develop, and reward talent. Richard emphasized the importance of building a cohesive team through thoughtful recruitment, particularly focusing on nurturing young talent who can be molded to fit the organization's culture. He highlighted the significance of creating a supportive environment where team members can bond through informal team-building events, which can enhance morale and foster a collaborative atmosphere.

We also explored the misconceptions leaders often have about team dynamics, particularly the need for a nuanced understanding of individual team members' needs rather than applying a one-size-fits-all approach. Richard stressed the importance of recognizing the emotional and psychological aspects of team interactions, advocating for a more personalized approach to leadership.

Additionally, we discussed the continuum of recruiting, assimilating, developing, and rewarding team members, with Richard providing insights on how to incentivize employees effectively. He pointed out that understanding the timing and significance of rewards can greatly enhance loyalty and performance.

As we wrapped up, Richard shared valuable advice on thinking outside the box and remaining open to innovative solutions in the nonprofit landscape. This episode is a must-listen for nonprofit leaders looking to strengthen their teams and create a thriving organizational culture.

For more insights and to access the full transcript, visit thenonprofitexchange.org.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2025 22:24:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Building Strong Teams: Recruiting, Developing, and Rewarding Talent in Nonprofits</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Navigating Team Challenges: Effective Leadership in the Nonprofit Sector</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Richard Stern, an experienced leader in the nonprofit sector, specifically in mental health services. Richard shared his journey from intern to executive leadership at Door of Hope, a social services nonprofit that provides vital mental health support across the tri-state area.

Our discussion centered around the critical topic of team dynamics within nonprofits—specifically, how to effectively recruit, develop, and reward talent. Richard emphasized the importance of building a cohesive team through thoughtful recruitment, particularly focusing on nurturing young talent who can be molded to fit the organization's culture. He highlighted the significance of creating a supportive environment where team members can bond through informal team-building events, which can enhance morale and foster a collaborative atmosphere.

We also explored the misconceptions leaders often have about team dynamics, particularly the need for a nuanced understanding of individual team members' needs rather than applying a one-size-fits-all approach. Richard stressed the importance of recognizing the emotional and psychological aspects of team interactions, advocating for a more personalized approach to leadership.

Additionally, we discussed the continuum of recruiting, assimilating, developing, and rewarding team members, with Richard providing insights on how to incentivize employees effectively. He pointed out that understanding the timing and significance of rewards can greatly enhance loyalty and performance.

As we wrapped up, Richard shared valuable advice on thinking outside the box and remaining open to innovative solutions in the nonprofit landscape. This episode is a must-listen for nonprofit leaders looking to strengthen their teams and create a thriving organizational culture.

For more insights and to access the full transcript, visit thenonprofitexchange.org.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Richard Stern, an experienced leader in the nonprofit sector, specifically in mental health services. Richard shared his journey from intern to executive leadership at Door of Hope, a social services nonprofit that provides vital mental health support across the tri-state area.</p>
<p>Our discussion centered around the critical topic of team dynamics within nonprofits—specifically, how to effectively recruit, develop, and reward talent. Richard emphasized the importance of building a cohesive team through thoughtful recruitment, particularly focusing on nurturing young talent who can be molded to fit the organization's culture. He highlighted the significance of creating a supportive environment where team members can bond through informal team-building events, which can enhance morale and foster a collaborative atmosphere.</p>
<p>We also explored the misconceptions leaders often have about team dynamics, particularly the need for a nuanced understanding of individual team members' needs rather than applying a one-size-fits-all approach. Richard stressed the importance of recognizing the emotional and psychological aspects of team interactions, advocating for a more personalized approach to leadership.</p>
<p>Additionally, we discussed the continuum of recruiting, assimilating, developing, and rewarding team members, with Richard providing insights on how to incentivize employees effectively. He pointed out that understanding the timing and significance of rewards can greatly enhance loyalty and performance.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Richard shared valuable advice on thinking outside the box and remaining open to innovative solutions in the nonprofit landscape. This episode is a must-listen for nonprofit leaders looking to strengthen their teams and create a thriving organizational culture.</p>
<p>For more insights and to access the full transcript, visit thenonprofitexchange.org.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1518</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[15e62b9a-3049-11f0-b9e8-13047c122b51]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7154520290.mp3?updated=1747175392" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Building Trust: The Power of Connect, Serve, and Ask in Nonprofit Leadership</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/05/08/npe-prioritize-relationships/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, had the pleasure of reconnecting with an old friend and seasoned entrepreneur, Clay Hicks. Clay is the founder of H7, a network dedicated to fostering meaningful connections among professionals. Our discussion centered around his trademarked methodology: "Connect, Serve, and Ask," which has been a guiding principle in his work since its inception in 2018.

Clay shared his journey as an entrepreneur over the past 23 years, emphasizing his passion for leadership and the importance of building relationships. He recounted how the "Connect, Serve, and Ask" methodology evolved from his experiences of meeting with individuals one-on-one, initially starting in 2014. Through his reflections, he realized the significance of connecting with others, serving them genuinely, and ultimately asking for help when needed. This approach has proven to be a powerful way to earn trust and build mutually beneficial relationships.

We delved into the importance of focusing on relationships rather than outcomes, a concept that resonated deeply with both of us. Clay articulated that when we prioritize building solid relationships, the desired outcomes—whether in fundraising, networking, or team dynamics—become more predictable and achievable. He highlighted that this principle is crucial for nonprofit leaders who aim to make a meaningful impact in their communities.

As we explored the role of social media, particularly LinkedIn, in building connections, Clay pointed out common mistakes that many make, such as relying on automated messages and failing to provide value in their posts. He stressed the importance of authentic engagement and the need to treat social media as a platform for relationship-building rather than mere self-promotion.

Clay also introduced practical strategies for initiating conversations with potential volunteers, board members, and donors. He provided insightful questions to help listeners connect with others on a deeper level, emphasizing the value of understanding their stories and needs.

Throughout the episode, Clay's enthusiasm for helping others and his commitment to fostering a culture of trust and collaboration shone through. He invited listeners to explore H7 and participate in their meetings to experience firsthand the power of networking grounded in the "Connect, Serve, and Ask" philosophy.

In closing, Clay left us with a powerful reminder: when we focus on relationships, the outcomes we seek will naturally follow. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their networking skills and build impactful relationships in their work.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2025 14:09:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Building Trust: The Power of Connect, Serve, and Ask in Nonprofit Leadership</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Focus on Relationships: How to Make Outcomes More Predictable in Nonprofits</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, had the pleasure of reconnecting with an old friend and seasoned entrepreneur, Clay Hicks. Clay is the founder of H7, a network dedicated to fostering meaningful connections among professionals. Our discussion centered around his trademarked methodology: "Connect, Serve, and Ask," which has been a guiding principle in his work since its inception in 2018.

Clay shared his journey as an entrepreneur over the past 23 years, emphasizing his passion for leadership and the importance of building relationships. He recounted how the "Connect, Serve, and Ask" methodology evolved from his experiences of meeting with individuals one-on-one, initially starting in 2014. Through his reflections, he realized the significance of connecting with others, serving them genuinely, and ultimately asking for help when needed. This approach has proven to be a powerful way to earn trust and build mutually beneficial relationships.

We delved into the importance of focusing on relationships rather than outcomes, a concept that resonated deeply with both of us. Clay articulated that when we prioritize building solid relationships, the desired outcomes—whether in fundraising, networking, or team dynamics—become more predictable and achievable. He highlighted that this principle is crucial for nonprofit leaders who aim to make a meaningful impact in their communities.

As we explored the role of social media, particularly LinkedIn, in building connections, Clay pointed out common mistakes that many make, such as relying on automated messages and failing to provide value in their posts. He stressed the importance of authentic engagement and the need to treat social media as a platform for relationship-building rather than mere self-promotion.

Clay also introduced practical strategies for initiating conversations with potential volunteers, board members, and donors. He provided insightful questions to help listeners connect with others on a deeper level, emphasizing the value of understanding their stories and needs.

Throughout the episode, Clay's enthusiasm for helping others and his commitment to fostering a culture of trust and collaboration shone through. He invited listeners to explore H7 and participate in their meetings to experience firsthand the power of networking grounded in the "Connect, Serve, and Ask" philosophy.

In closing, Clay left us with a powerful reminder: when we focus on relationships, the outcomes we seek will naturally follow. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their networking skills and build impactful relationships in their work.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, had the pleasure of reconnecting with an old friend and seasoned entrepreneur, Clay Hicks. Clay is the founder of H7, a network dedicated to fostering meaningful connections among professionals. Our discussion centered around his trademarked methodology: "Connect, Serve, and Ask," which has been a guiding principle in his work since its inception in 2018.</p>
<p>Clay shared his journey as an entrepreneur over the past 23 years, emphasizing his passion for leadership and the importance of building relationships. He recounted how the "Connect, Serve, and Ask" methodology evolved from his experiences of meeting with individuals one-on-one, initially starting in 2014. Through his reflections, he realized the significance of connecting with others, serving them genuinely, and ultimately asking for help when needed. This approach has proven to be a powerful way to earn trust and build mutually beneficial relationships.</p>
<p>We delved into the importance of focusing on relationships rather than outcomes, a concept that resonated deeply with both of us. Clay articulated that when we prioritize building solid relationships, the desired outcomes—whether in fundraising, networking, or team dynamics—become more predictable and achievable. He highlighted that this principle is crucial for nonprofit leaders who aim to make a meaningful impact in their communities.</p>
<p>As we explored the role of social media, particularly LinkedIn, in building connections, Clay pointed out common mistakes that many make, such as relying on automated messages and failing to provide value in their posts. He stressed the importance of authentic engagement and the need to treat social media as a platform for relationship-building rather than mere self-promotion.</p>
<p>Clay also introduced practical strategies for initiating conversations with potential volunteers, board members, and donors. He provided insightful questions to help listeners connect with others on a deeper level, emphasizing the value of understanding their stories and needs.</p>
<p>Throughout the episode, Clay's enthusiasm for helping others and his commitment to fostering a culture of trust and collaboration shone through. He invited listeners to explore H7 and participate in their meetings to experience firsthand the power of networking grounded in the "Connect, Serve, and Ask" philosophy.</p>
<p>In closing, Clay left us with a powerful reminder: when we focus on relationships, the outcomes we seek will naturally follow. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their networking skills and build impactful relationships in their work.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1467</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[12c0effe-2c16-11f0-a020-9f9717e33246]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6269673417.mp3?updated=1746713677" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Expired Mindsets: Releasing Patterns that No Longer Serve You Well</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/04/29/npe-expired-mindsets/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Charryse Johnson, a licensed clinical mental health therapist, mindfulness practitioner, and author. We delved into her insightful topic, "Expired Mindsets: Releasing Patterns That No Longer Serve You Well," which is also the title of her book.

Dr. Johnson shared her passion for helping nonprofit leaders navigate the complexities of their roles while maintaining their personal well-being. She emphasized the importance of recognizing that our personal and professional lives are intertwined, and how our mindsets can significantly impact our effectiveness as leaders.

We discussed the concept of "expired mindsets," which refers to outdated beliefs and patterns that may have once served us but are now hindering our growth. Dr. Johnson provided practical examples of how to identify these blind spots, such as noticing discrepancies between our thoughts and actions or feeling stuck in self-sabotaging behaviors.

One of the key myths we explored was the belief that "the way I've always done it is the best way." Dr. Johnson encouraged leaders to adopt a mindset of curiosity and openness to change, suggesting that a pivot can be a more approachable alternative to the daunting idea of change.

Throughout our conversation, we touched on the significance of self-awareness and the impact of negative thoughts on leadership culture. Dr. Johnson highlighted the importance of reframing our inner dialogue and being mindful of how our beliefs can influence those around us.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Johnson shared valuable insights on the necessity of applying knowledge to foster personal and organizational growth. She left us with a powerful reminder: "Knowledge is not power without application."

This episode is packed with actionable advice and thought-provoking concepts that can help leaders at all levels enhance their effectiveness and well-being. For those interested in exploring more, the full transcript and additional resources can be found on our website, nonprofitexchange.org.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2025 20:54:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Expired Mindsets: Releasing Patterns that No Longer Serve You Well</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle> Level Up Your Mindset</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Charryse Johnson, a licensed clinical mental health therapist, mindfulness practitioner, and author. We delved into her insightful topic, "Expired Mindsets: Releasing Patterns That No Longer Serve You Well," which is also the title of her book.

Dr. Johnson shared her passion for helping nonprofit leaders navigate the complexities of their roles while maintaining their personal well-being. She emphasized the importance of recognizing that our personal and professional lives are intertwined, and how our mindsets can significantly impact our effectiveness as leaders.

We discussed the concept of "expired mindsets," which refers to outdated beliefs and patterns that may have once served us but are now hindering our growth. Dr. Johnson provided practical examples of how to identify these blind spots, such as noticing discrepancies between our thoughts and actions or feeling stuck in self-sabotaging behaviors.

One of the key myths we explored was the belief that "the way I've always done it is the best way." Dr. Johnson encouraged leaders to adopt a mindset of curiosity and openness to change, suggesting that a pivot can be a more approachable alternative to the daunting idea of change.

Throughout our conversation, we touched on the significance of self-awareness and the impact of negative thoughts on leadership culture. Dr. Johnson highlighted the importance of reframing our inner dialogue and being mindful of how our beliefs can influence those around us.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Johnson shared valuable insights on the necessity of applying knowledge to foster personal and organizational growth. She left us with a powerful reminder: "Knowledge is not power without application."

This episode is packed with actionable advice and thought-provoking concepts that can help leaders at all levels enhance their effectiveness and well-being. For those interested in exploring more, the full transcript and additional resources can be found on our website, nonprofitexchange.org.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Charryse Johnson, a licensed clinical mental health therapist, mindfulness practitioner, and author. We delved into her insightful topic, "Expired Mindsets: Releasing Patterns That No Longer Serve You Well," which is also the title of her book.</p>
<p>Dr. Johnson shared her passion for helping nonprofit leaders navigate the complexities of their roles while maintaining their personal well-being. She emphasized the importance of recognizing that our personal and professional lives are intertwined, and how our mindsets can significantly impact our effectiveness as leaders.</p>
<p>We discussed the concept of "expired mindsets," which refers to outdated beliefs and patterns that may have once served us but are now hindering our growth. Dr. Johnson provided practical examples of how to identify these blind spots, such as noticing discrepancies between our thoughts and actions or feeling stuck in self-sabotaging behaviors.</p>
<p>One of the key myths we explored was the belief that "the way I've always done it is the best way." Dr. Johnson encouraged leaders to adopt a mindset of curiosity and openness to change, suggesting that a pivot can be a more approachable alternative to the daunting idea of change.</p>
<p>Throughout our conversation, we touched on the significance of self-awareness and the impact of negative thoughts on leadership culture. Dr. Johnson highlighted the importance of reframing our inner dialogue and being mindful of how our beliefs can influence those around us.</p>
<p>As we wrapped up, Dr. Johnson shared valuable insights on the necessity of applying knowledge to foster personal and organizational growth. She left us with a powerful reminder: "Knowledge is not power without application."</p>
<p>This episode is packed with actionable advice and thought-provoking concepts that can help leaders at all levels enhance their effectiveness and well-being. For those interested in exploring more, the full transcript and additional resources can be found on our website, nonprofitexchange.org.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1642</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[3423de76-253c-11f0-b134-b75e806546d7]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2192790121.mp3?updated=1745960396" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Thriving is Not a Matter of Luck</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/04/22/npe-template-copy/</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2025 21:52:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Thriving is Not a Matter of Luck</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Thriving: The Key to a Healthier, Happier Life with Randy Selig</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1596</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[24998186-1fc4-11f0-a2a4-b7c38ffdbac9]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6505375647.mp3?updated=1745359075" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>1.	Empowering Leadership Through Self-Care: Insights from Dr. Deidre Douglas</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/04/15/npe-leadership-and-fitness/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming Dr. Deidre Douglas, a dear friend and an experienced leader in public education and fitness. With over 30 years of experience, Dr. Douglas has dedicated her career to positively impacting individuals of all ages, from children to adults, through her work at the YMCA of Central Virginia.

We delved into the critical topic of self-care and its importance for effective leadership. Dr. Douglas emphasized that the culture of an organization reflects its leaders, and she shared her conscious mindset in fostering a positive and energetic environment at the YMCA. By connecting with her team on a personal level, she supports their growth and well-being, which in turn enhances their ability to serve others.

A significant part of our discussion focused on the intersection of leadership and fitness. Dr. Douglas highlighted the importance of maintaining our physical health to boost our mental and emotional well-being. She introduced her concept of "Wise Owl Wisdom," which encourages individuals to assess their wellness continuum and find balance in various aspects of life, including emotional, spiritual, and physical health.

We also explored practical strategies for setting boundaries, establishing personal fitness routines, and the value of accountability partners. Dr. Douglas shared insightful tips on how to create a sustainable fitness regimen, emphasizing the importance of starting small and gradually building up.

As we wrapped up the episode, Dr. Douglas reminded us that each of us is a leader in our own right, regardless of our titles. By recognizing our unique gifts and talents, we can lead ourselves and others toward a richer, more fulfilling life.

This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their self-care practices. I encourage you to listen closely and take away the valuable insights shared by Dr. Douglas.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2025 19:52:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Empowering Leadership Through Self-Care: Insights from Dr. Deidre Douglas</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Wise Owl Wisdom: Balancing Personal Wellness and Professional Growth</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming Dr. Deidre Douglas, a dear friend and an experienced leader in public education and fitness. With over 30 years of experience, Dr. Douglas has dedicated her career to positively impacting individuals of all ages, from children to adults, through her work at the YMCA of Central Virginia.

We delved into the critical topic of self-care and its importance for effective leadership. Dr. Douglas emphasized that the culture of an organization reflects its leaders, and she shared her conscious mindset in fostering a positive and energetic environment at the YMCA. By connecting with her team on a personal level, she supports their growth and well-being, which in turn enhances their ability to serve others.

A significant part of our discussion focused on the intersection of leadership and fitness. Dr. Douglas highlighted the importance of maintaining our physical health to boost our mental and emotional well-being. She introduced her concept of "Wise Owl Wisdom," which encourages individuals to assess their wellness continuum and find balance in various aspects of life, including emotional, spiritual, and physical health.

We also explored practical strategies for setting boundaries, establishing personal fitness routines, and the value of accountability partners. Dr. Douglas shared insightful tips on how to create a sustainable fitness regimen, emphasizing the importance of starting small and gradually building up.

As we wrapped up the episode, Dr. Douglas reminded us that each of us is a leader in our own right, regardless of our titles. By recognizing our unique gifts and talents, we can lead ourselves and others toward a richer, more fulfilling life.

This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their self-care practices. I encourage you to listen closely and take away the valuable insights shared by Dr. Douglas.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming Dr. Deidre Douglas, a dear friend and an experienced leader in public education and fitness. With over 30 years of experience, Dr. Douglas has dedicated her career to positively impacting individuals of all ages, from children to adults, through her work at the YMCA of Central Virginia.</p><p><br></p><p>We delved into the critical topic of self-care and its importance for effective leadership. Dr. Douglas emphasized that the culture of an organization reflects its leaders, and she shared her conscious mindset in fostering a positive and energetic environment at the YMCA. By connecting with her team on a personal level, she supports their growth and well-being, which in turn enhances their ability to serve others.</p><p><br></p><p>A significant part of our discussion focused on the intersection of leadership and fitness. Dr. Douglas highlighted the importance of maintaining our physical health to boost our mental and emotional well-being. She introduced her concept of "Wise Owl Wisdom," which encourages individuals to assess their wellness continuum and find balance in various aspects of life, including emotional, spiritual, and physical health.</p><p><br></p><p>We also explored practical strategies for setting boundaries, establishing personal fitness routines, and the value of accountability partners. Dr. Douglas shared insightful tips on how to create a sustainable fitness regimen, emphasizing the importance of starting small and gradually building up.</p><p><br></p><p>As we wrapped up the episode, Dr. Douglas reminded us that each of us is a leader in our own right, regardless of our titles. By recognizing our unique gifts and talents, we can lead ourselves and others toward a richer, more fulfilling life.</p><p><br></p><p>This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their self-care practices. I encourage you to listen closely and take away the valuable insights shared by Dr. Douglas.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1534</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>1.	Empowering Leadership Through Self-Care: Insights from Dr. Deidre Douglas</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/04/15/npe-leadership-and-fitness/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming Dr. Deidre Douglas, a dear friend and an experienced leader in public education and fitness. With over 30 years of experience, Dr. Douglas has dedicated her career to positively impacting individuals of all ages, from children to adults, through her work at the YMCA of Central Virginia.

We delved into the critical topic of self-care and its importance for effective leadership. Dr. Douglas emphasized that the culture of an organization reflects its leaders, and she shared her conscious mindset in fostering a positive and energetic environment at the YMCA. By connecting with her team on a personal level, she supports their growth and well-being, which in turn enhances their ability to serve others.

A significant part of our discussion focused on the intersection of leadership and fitness. Dr. Douglas highlighted the importance of maintaining our physical health to boost our mental and emotional well-being. She introduced her concept of "Wise Owl Wisdom," which encourages individuals to assess their wellness continuum and find balance in various aspects of life, including emotional, spiritual, and physical health.

We also explored practical strategies for setting boundaries, establishing personal fitness routines, and the value of accountability partners. Dr. Douglas shared insightful tips on how to create a sustainable fitness regimen, emphasizing the importance of starting small and gradually building up.

As we wrapped up the episode, Dr. Douglas reminded us that each of us is a leader in our own right, regardless of our titles. By recognizing our unique gifts and talents, we can lead ourselves and others toward a richer, more fulfilling life.

This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their self-care practices. I encourage you to listen closely and take away the valuable insights shared by Dr. Douglas.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2025 19:52:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Empowering Leadership Through Self-Care: Insights from Dr. Deidre Douglas</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Wise Owl Wisdom: Balancing Personal Wellness and Professional Growth</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming Dr. Deidre Douglas, a dear friend and an experienced leader in public education and fitness. With over 30 years of experience, Dr. Douglas has dedicated her career to positively impacting individuals of all ages, from children to adults, through her work at the YMCA of Central Virginia.

We delved into the critical topic of self-care and its importance for effective leadership. Dr. Douglas emphasized that the culture of an organization reflects its leaders, and she shared her conscious mindset in fostering a positive and energetic environment at the YMCA. By connecting with her team on a personal level, she supports their growth and well-being, which in turn enhances their ability to serve others.

A significant part of our discussion focused on the intersection of leadership and fitness. Dr. Douglas highlighted the importance of maintaining our physical health to boost our mental and emotional well-being. She introduced her concept of "Wise Owl Wisdom," which encourages individuals to assess their wellness continuum and find balance in various aspects of life, including emotional, spiritual, and physical health.

We also explored practical strategies for setting boundaries, establishing personal fitness routines, and the value of accountability partners. Dr. Douglas shared insightful tips on how to create a sustainable fitness regimen, emphasizing the importance of starting small and gradually building up.

As we wrapped up the episode, Dr. Douglas reminded us that each of us is a leader in our own right, regardless of our titles. By recognizing our unique gifts and talents, we can lead ourselves and others toward a richer, more fulfilling life.

This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their self-care practices. I encourage you to listen closely and take away the valuable insights shared by Dr. Douglas.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of welcoming Dr. Deidre Douglas, a dear friend and an experienced leader in public education and fitness. With over 30 years of experience, Dr. Douglas has dedicated her career to positively impacting individuals of all ages, from children to adults, through her work at the YMCA of Central Virginia.</p><p><br></p><p>We delved into the critical topic of self-care and its importance for effective leadership. Dr. Douglas emphasized that the culture of an organization reflects its leaders, and she shared her conscious mindset in fostering a positive and energetic environment at the YMCA. By connecting with her team on a personal level, she supports their growth and well-being, which in turn enhances their ability to serve others.</p><p><br></p><p>A significant part of our discussion focused on the intersection of leadership and fitness. Dr. Douglas highlighted the importance of maintaining our physical health to boost our mental and emotional well-being. She introduced her concept of "Wise Owl Wisdom," which encourages individuals to assess their wellness continuum and find balance in various aspects of life, including emotional, spiritual, and physical health.</p><p><br></p><p>We also explored practical strategies for setting boundaries, establishing personal fitness routines, and the value of accountability partners. Dr. Douglas shared insightful tips on how to create a sustainable fitness regimen, emphasizing the importance of starting small and gradually building up.</p><p><br></p><p>As we wrapped up the episode, Dr. Douglas reminded us that each of us is a leader in our own right, regardless of our titles. By recognizing our unique gifts and talents, we can lead ourselves and others toward a richer, more fulfilling life.</p><p><br></p><p>This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their self-care practices. I encourage you to listen closely and take away the valuable insights shared by Dr. Douglas.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1534</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>From Mission to Momentum: Transforming Nonprofits with Corporate Mindsets</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/04/01/npe-mission-to-momentum/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Lisa Bonelli, founder of the Bonnell Foundation, which focuses on raising awareness and providing support for families affected by cystic fibrosis. Lisa shared her inspiring journey from a career in journalism to dedicating her life to nonprofit work after her daughters were diagnosed with the disease.

We discussed the critical role of nonprofits in society and how they should adopt a corporate mindset to enhance their impact. Lisa emphasized the importance of building a strong support network, seeking mentorship, and being open to feedback as essential components of growing a successful nonprofit. She also highlighted the unique challenges faced by nonprofits, including the stigma around paying staff and the need for effective advocacy.

Lisa's foundation offers various programs, including financial assistance, scholarships, and educational resources, aimed at empowering families and raising awareness about cystic fibrosis. She shared insights on the importance of community engagement and the need for inclusivity in messaging.

Throughout our conversation, Lisa encouraged listeners to embrace their journeys, seek out information, and not shy away from ambitious goals. Her passion and dedication to making a difference in the lives of those affected by cystic fibrosis were truly inspiring.

For more information about Lisa's work and the Bonnell Foundation, visit their website at thebonnellfoundation.org.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2025 18:56:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>From Mission to Momentum: Transforming Nonprofits with Corporate Mindsets</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>How Nonprofits Can Thrive Like Corporations</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Lisa Bonelli, founder of the Bonnell Foundation, which focuses on raising awareness and providing support for families affected by cystic fibrosis. Lisa shared her inspiring journey from a career in journalism to dedicating her life to nonprofit work after her daughters were diagnosed with the disease.

We discussed the critical role of nonprofits in society and how they should adopt a corporate mindset to enhance their impact. Lisa emphasized the importance of building a strong support network, seeking mentorship, and being open to feedback as essential components of growing a successful nonprofit. She also highlighted the unique challenges faced by nonprofits, including the stigma around paying staff and the need for effective advocacy.

Lisa's foundation offers various programs, including financial assistance, scholarships, and educational resources, aimed at empowering families and raising awareness about cystic fibrosis. She shared insights on the importance of community engagement and the need for inclusivity in messaging.

Throughout our conversation, Lisa encouraged listeners to embrace their journeys, seek out information, and not shy away from ambitious goals. Her passion and dedication to making a difference in the lives of those affected by cystic fibrosis were truly inspiring.

For more information about Lisa's work and the Bonnell Foundation, visit their website at thebonnellfoundation.org.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Lisa Bonelli, founder of the Bonnell Foundation, which focuses on raising awareness and providing support for families affected by cystic fibrosis. Lisa shared her inspiring journey from a career in journalism to dedicating her life to nonprofit work after her daughters were diagnosed with the disease.</p><p><br></p><p>We discussed the critical role of nonprofits in society and how they should adopt a corporate mindset to enhance their impact. Lisa emphasized the importance of building a strong support network, seeking mentorship, and being open to feedback as essential components of growing a successful nonprofit. She also highlighted the unique challenges faced by nonprofits, including the stigma around paying staff and the need for effective advocacy.</p><p><br></p><p>Lisa's foundation offers various programs, including financial assistance, scholarships, and educational resources, aimed at empowering families and raising awareness about cystic fibrosis. She shared insights on the importance of community engagement and the need for inclusivity in messaging.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our conversation, Lisa encouraged listeners to embrace their journeys, seek out information, and not shy away from ambitious goals. Her passion and dedication to making a difference in the lives of those affected by cystic fibrosis were truly inspiring.</p><p><br></p><p>For more information about Lisa's work and the Bonnell Foundation, visit their website at thebonnellfoundation.org.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1680</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[284d36de-14ab-11f0-84b7-db8ee0e76cc8]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3110105231.mp3?updated=1744138880" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Transforming Accountability: Insights from Jennifer Long on Leading Without Drama</title>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jennifer Long, the president and master coach of Own Up, about her book, Accountability Without the Drama. Jennifer brings a wealth of experience in corporate training, executive coaching, and team development, stemming from her family's long-standing commitment to people development since the late 80s.

We delved into the concept of accountability, which many perceive as punitive. Jennifer emphasized that true accountability should be viewed as a practice centered around clarity and growth rather than blame. She shared her insights on how effective communication and the art of dialogue are essential for fostering better relationships and enhancing leadership effectiveness.

Jennifer introduced her six-step SOS model for accountability conversations, which includes identifying issues, analyzing context, and engaging in meaningful dialogue. We discussed the importance of creating space for team members to take ownership of their actions and decisions, rather than micromanaging or rescuing them.

Throughout our conversation, we highlighted the significance of clear expectations and the impact of anxiety on accountability. Jennifer's approach encourages leaders to shift their mindset and focus on building trust and collaboration within their teams.

Listeners can find more resources on Jennifer's website, accountabilityatwork.com, where they can also access a free chapter of her book. This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone looking to improve their leadership skills and create a more positive organizational culture. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you find this discussion as enlightening as I did!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2025 23:09:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Transforming Accountability: Insights from Jennifer Long on Leading Without Drama</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Beyond Punishment: Redefining Accountability in Leadership </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jennifer Long, the president and master coach of Own Up, about her book, Accountability Without the Drama. Jennifer brings a wealth of experience in corporate training, executive coaching, and team development, stemming from her family's long-standing commitment to people development since the late 80s.

We delved into the concept of accountability, which many perceive as punitive. Jennifer emphasized that true accountability should be viewed as a practice centered around clarity and growth rather than blame. She shared her insights on how effective communication and the art of dialogue are essential for fostering better relationships and enhancing leadership effectiveness.

Jennifer introduced her six-step SOS model for accountability conversations, which includes identifying issues, analyzing context, and engaging in meaningful dialogue. We discussed the importance of creating space for team members to take ownership of their actions and decisions, rather than micromanaging or rescuing them.

Throughout our conversation, we highlighted the significance of clear expectations and the impact of anxiety on accountability. Jennifer's approach encourages leaders to shift their mindset and focus on building trust and collaboration within their teams.

Listeners can find more resources on Jennifer's website, accountabilityatwork.com, where they can also access a free chapter of her book. This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone looking to improve their leadership skills and create a more positive organizational culture. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you find this discussion as enlightening as I did!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jennifer Long, the president and master coach of Own Up, about her book, <em>Accountability Without the Drama</em>. Jennifer brings a wealth of experience in corporate training, executive coaching, and team development, stemming from her family's long-standing commitment to people development since the late 80s.</p><p><br></p><p>We delved into the concept of accountability, which many perceive as punitive. Jennifer emphasized that true accountability should be viewed as a practice centered around clarity and growth rather than blame. She shared her insights on how effective communication and the art of dialogue are essential for fostering better relationships and enhancing leadership effectiveness.</p><p><br></p><p>Jennifer introduced her six-step SOS model for accountability conversations, which includes identifying issues, analyzing context, and engaging in meaningful dialogue. We discussed the importance of creating space for team members to take ownership of their actions and decisions, rather than micromanaging or rescuing them.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our conversation, we highlighted the significance of clear expectations and the impact of anxiety on accountability. Jennifer's approach encourages leaders to shift their mindset and focus on building trust and collaboration within their teams.</p><p><br></p><p>Listeners can find more resources on Jennifer's website, accountabilityatwork.com, where they can also access a free chapter of her book. This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone looking to improve their leadership skills and create a more positive organizational culture. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you find this discussion as enlightening as I did!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1519</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[6a21d7f2-0f4e-11f0-ae82-3b288427bc35]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8172456085.mp3?updated=1743549292" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Bringing Unity Through Deeper Conversations</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/03/25/npe-unity-through-conversations/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with my longtime friend and brilliant leader, Barry O'Cotell. We explored the theme of "Bringing Unity Through Deeper Conversations," focusing on his innovative board game, Conversations, which he created to facilitate meaningful dialogue among people.

Barry shared his journey of over 30 years in helping individuals clear subconscious blocks that hinder authentic communication. He described how the game encourages players to move beyond small talk and engage in what he calls "soul talk," fostering genuine connections. Launched 20 years ago, the game has been played worldwide, helping people discover similarities rather than differences, ultimately promoting unity.

We discussed the various levels of conversation, including self-awareness and empathic listening, and how the game creates a safe space for vulnerability. Barry emphasized the importance of listening to understand rather than to respond, which can transform interactions and relationships.

Throughout our conversation, Barry shared inspiring stories of transformation, including how the game has helped individuals and groups connect on a deeper level, leading to renewed relationships and even marriages. He highlighted the significance of personal growth for leaders and how our communication styles shape the culture around us.

Barry also introduced his nonprofit organization, Visionaries of Light, aimed at fostering deeper connections in communities. He shared details about their monthly gatherings and the vision for a Conversations app to facilitate meaningful exchanges.

As we wrapped up, Barry left us with a powerful reminder: "You do make a difference in how people experience their lives." This episode serves as a call to action for all of us to engage in deeper conversations and contribute to a more connected world.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2025 19:16:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Bringing Unity Through Deeper Conversations</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Power of Connection</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with my longtime friend and brilliant leader, Barry O'Cotell. We explored the theme of "Bringing Unity Through Deeper Conversations," focusing on his innovative board game, Conversations, which he created to facilitate meaningful dialogue among people.

Barry shared his journey of over 30 years in helping individuals clear subconscious blocks that hinder authentic communication. He described how the game encourages players to move beyond small talk and engage in what he calls "soul talk," fostering genuine connections. Launched 20 years ago, the game has been played worldwide, helping people discover similarities rather than differences, ultimately promoting unity.

We discussed the various levels of conversation, including self-awareness and empathic listening, and how the game creates a safe space for vulnerability. Barry emphasized the importance of listening to understand rather than to respond, which can transform interactions and relationships.

Throughout our conversation, Barry shared inspiring stories of transformation, including how the game has helped individuals and groups connect on a deeper level, leading to renewed relationships and even marriages. He highlighted the significance of personal growth for leaders and how our communication styles shape the culture around us.

Barry also introduced his nonprofit organization, Visionaries of Light, aimed at fostering deeper connections in communities. He shared details about their monthly gatherings and the vision for a Conversations app to facilitate meaningful exchanges.

As we wrapped up, Barry left us with a powerful reminder: "You do make a difference in how people experience their lives." This episode serves as a call to action for all of us to engage in deeper conversations and contribute to a more connected world.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with my longtime friend and brilliant leader, Barry O'Cotell. We explored the theme of "Bringing Unity Through Deeper Conversations," focusing on his innovative board game, Conversations, which he created to facilitate meaningful dialogue among people.</p><p><br></p><p>Barry shared his journey of over 30 years in helping individuals clear subconscious blocks that hinder authentic communication. He described how the game encourages players to move beyond small talk and engage in what he calls "soul talk," fostering genuine connections. Launched 20 years ago, the game has been played worldwide, helping people discover similarities rather than differences, ultimately promoting unity.</p><p><br></p><p>We discussed the various levels of conversation, including self-awareness and empathic listening, and how the game creates a safe space for vulnerability. Barry emphasized the importance of listening to understand rather than to respond, which can transform interactions and relationships.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our conversation, Barry shared inspiring stories of transformation, including how the game has helped individuals and groups connect on a deeper level, leading to renewed relationships and even marriages. He highlighted the significance of personal growth for leaders and how our communication styles shape the culture around us.</p><p><br></p><p>Barry also introduced his nonprofit organization, Visionaries of Light, aimed at fostering deeper connections in communities. He shared details about their monthly gatherings and the vision for a Conversations app to facilitate meaningful exchanges.</p><p><br></p><p>As we wrapped up, Barry left us with a powerful reminder: "You do make a difference in how people experience their lives." This episode serves as a call to action for all of us to engage in deeper conversations and contribute to a more connected world.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1684</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[a065ccb6-09ad-11f0-9179-1b2650cfe611]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1226754867.mp3?updated=1742930478" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Finding Your Path: How Emotional Intelligence Can Shape Your Nonprofit Journey</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/?p=8896</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Rhonda Parker-Taylor, a dynamic leader and author with a wealth of experience in emotional intelligence and nonprofit strategy. We delved into the challenges many nonprofit leaders face, particularly the feeling of being overwhelmed or "deluged" by their responsibilities. Rhonda emphasized the importance of understanding our emotions and biases, both personally and within our organizations, to navigate these challenges effectively.

Rhonda shared her journey, highlighting how her own experiences with failures and successes have shaped her approach to leadership. She discussed her fiction novel, "Crossroads," which, while a thrilling read, also serves as a reflection on the crossroads we all face in our personal and professional lives. The characters in her book illustrate the balance—or lack thereof—that many of us experience in our daily lives.

We explored the concept of emotional intelligence and how it can help leaders manage their own emotions and those of their teams. Rhonda provided practical advice on how to break down overwhelming tasks into manageable chunks and the importance of maintaining physical and emotional wellness in both personal and organizational contexts.

Throughout our conversation, Rhonda encouraged listeners to embrace intentionality and kindness in their daily lives, reminding us that even in times of trial, we can transform our experiences into something beautiful, much like sea glass shaped by the ocean.

This episode is packed with insights and inspiration for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and navigate the complexities of nonprofit work. Be sure to check out Rhonda's website for more resources and to connect with her directly. Thank you for joining us on The Nonprofit Exchange!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2025 19:10:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Finding Your Path: How Emotional Intelligence Can Shape Your Nonprofit Journey</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>From Overwhelm to Clarity</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Rhonda Parker-Taylor, a dynamic leader and author with a wealth of experience in emotional intelligence and nonprofit strategy. We delved into the challenges many nonprofit leaders face, particularly the feeling of being overwhelmed or "deluged" by their responsibilities. Rhonda emphasized the importance of understanding our emotions and biases, both personally and within our organizations, to navigate these challenges effectively.

Rhonda shared her journey, highlighting how her own experiences with failures and successes have shaped her approach to leadership. She discussed her fiction novel, "Crossroads," which, while a thrilling read, also serves as a reflection on the crossroads we all face in our personal and professional lives. The characters in her book illustrate the balance—or lack thereof—that many of us experience in our daily lives.

We explored the concept of emotional intelligence and how it can help leaders manage their own emotions and those of their teams. Rhonda provided practical advice on how to break down overwhelming tasks into manageable chunks and the importance of maintaining physical and emotional wellness in both personal and organizational contexts.

Throughout our conversation, Rhonda encouraged listeners to embrace intentionality and kindness in their daily lives, reminding us that even in times of trial, we can transform our experiences into something beautiful, much like sea glass shaped by the ocean.

This episode is packed with insights and inspiration for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and navigate the complexities of nonprofit work. Be sure to check out Rhonda's website for more resources and to connect with her directly. Thank you for joining us on The Nonprofit Exchange!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Rhonda Parker-Taylor, a dynamic leader and author with a wealth of experience in emotional intelligence and nonprofit strategy. We delved into the challenges many nonprofit leaders face, particularly the feeling of being overwhelmed or "deluged" by their responsibilities. Rhonda emphasized the importance of understanding our emotions and biases, both personally and within our organizations, to navigate these challenges effectively.</p><p><br></p><p>Rhonda shared her journey, highlighting how her own experiences with failures and successes have shaped her approach to leadership. She discussed her fiction novel, "Crossroads," which, while a thrilling read, also serves as a reflection on the crossroads we all face in our personal and professional lives. The characters in her book illustrate the balance—or lack thereof—that many of us experience in our daily lives.</p><p><br></p><p>We explored the concept of emotional intelligence and how it can help leaders manage their own emotions and those of their teams. Rhonda provided practical advice on how to break down overwhelming tasks into manageable chunks and the importance of maintaining physical and emotional wellness in both personal and organizational contexts.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our conversation, Rhonda encouraged listeners to embrace intentionality and kindness in their daily lives, reminding us that even in times of trial, we can transform our experiences into something beautiful, much like sea glass shaped by the ocean.</p><p><br></p><p>This episode is packed with insights and inspiration for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and navigate the complexities of nonprofit work. Be sure to check out Rhonda's website for more resources and to connect with her directly. Thank you for joining us on The Nonprofit Exchange!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1525</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[a91129a4-042c-11f0-93c1-1f7a85ff24ba]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3465720092.mp3?updated=1742325332" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Reframing Nonprofit Success: 20 Ways of Being with John Watson</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/03/11/npe-reframing-business-development/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with John Watson, the president of Accru Performance Marketing. John, who has over 30 years of experience in marketing and consulting, shared his insights on reframing business development through what he calls "20 Ways of Being."

We discussed the common misconceptions surrounding marketing in the nonprofit sector, particularly the myth that nonprofits cannot afford to invest in marketing. John emphasized that nonprofits are businesses too, albeit tax-exempt ones, and that effective marketing is crucial for their sustainability. He argued that the focus should be on donor development rather than just acquisition, highlighting the importance of building relationships with donors.

John also addressed the overwhelming nature of data in marketing and the need to concentrate on key metrics that truly matter. He encouraged nonprofit leaders to shift their mindset from tactical execution to outcome-oriented thinking, which involves understanding the core goals of their organization and how to achieve them collaboratively.

Throughout our conversation, John introduced his book, "Being Profitable," which serves as a guide for leaders to navigate the complexities of nonprofit management. He outlined the importance of clarity and commitment in achieving organizational goals and provided practical advice for leaders feeling overburdened by their responsibilities.

This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their marketing strategies and foster stronger relationships with their donors. I encourage you to check out John's resources on his website, where you can find free eBooks and articles that delve deeper into these topics.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2025 19:36:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Reframing Nonprofit Success: 20 Ways of Being with John Watson</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Building Sustainable Nonprofits: The Power of Relationship Development</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with John Watson, the president of Accru Performance Marketing. John, who has over 30 years of experience in marketing and consulting, shared his insights on reframing business development through what he calls "20 Ways of Being."

We discussed the common misconceptions surrounding marketing in the nonprofit sector, particularly the myth that nonprofits cannot afford to invest in marketing. John emphasized that nonprofits are businesses too, albeit tax-exempt ones, and that effective marketing is crucial for their sustainability. He argued that the focus should be on donor development rather than just acquisition, highlighting the importance of building relationships with donors.

John also addressed the overwhelming nature of data in marketing and the need to concentrate on key metrics that truly matter. He encouraged nonprofit leaders to shift their mindset from tactical execution to outcome-oriented thinking, which involves understanding the core goals of their organization and how to achieve them collaboratively.

Throughout our conversation, John introduced his book, "Being Profitable," which serves as a guide for leaders to navigate the complexities of nonprofit management. He outlined the importance of clarity and commitment in achieving organizational goals and provided practical advice for leaders feeling overburdened by their responsibilities.

This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their marketing strategies and foster stronger relationships with their donors. I encourage you to check out John's resources on his website, where you can find free eBooks and articles that delve deeper into these topics.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with John Watson, the president of Accru Performance Marketing. John, who has over 30 years of experience in marketing and consulting, shared his insights on reframing business development through what he calls "20 Ways of Being."</p><p><br></p><p>We discussed the common misconceptions surrounding marketing in the nonprofit sector, particularly the myth that nonprofits cannot afford to invest in marketing. John emphasized that nonprofits are businesses too, albeit tax-exempt ones, and that effective marketing is crucial for their sustainability. He argued that the focus should be on donor development rather than just acquisition, highlighting the importance of building relationships with donors.</p><p><br></p><p>John also addressed the overwhelming nature of data in marketing and the need to concentrate on key metrics that truly matter. He encouraged nonprofit leaders to shift their mindset from tactical execution to outcome-oriented thinking, which involves understanding the core goals of their organization and how to achieve them collaboratively.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our conversation, John introduced his book, "Being Profitable," which serves as a guide for leaders to navigate the complexities of nonprofit management. He outlined the importance of clarity and commitment in achieving organizational goals and provided practical advice for leaders feeling overburdened by their responsibilities.</p><p><br></p><p>This episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their marketing strategies and foster stronger relationships with their donors. I encourage you to check out John's resources on his website, where you can find free eBooks and articles that delve deeper into these topics.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1464</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[5004cf08-ff79-11ef-9e54-c7d3d59b6501]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8046119023.mp3?updated=1741808497" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Strangest Secret of Volunteer Management</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/03/04/npe-volunteer-management/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dan Johnson, founder of Next Level Nonprofits. Dan shared his journey from politics to the nonprofit sector, emphasizing the importance of community-driven solutions over political ones. He works primarily with new nonprofit leaders and executive directors, helping them clarify their vision and effectively communicate their impact to potential donors and volunteers.

We delved into the challenges faced by nonprofit organizations, particularly the misconception that fundraising is solely about asking for money. Dan introduced the concept of "permission-based fundraising," where the focus is on the impact of the organization rather than just the financial ask. He highlighted the importance of understanding the three "paychecks" that volunteers seek: purpose, ownership, and mastery. By ensuring that volunteers feel valued and see the impact of their contributions, organizations can foster long-term engagement and commitment.

Dan also discussed the common pitfalls in nonprofit fundraising, such as failing to clearly define the organization's vision and impact. He provided practical advice on building relationships with donors and the significance of reporting back to them on the outcomes of their contributions.
Overall, this episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to create sustainable organizations. Dan's expertise and passion for empowering others in the nonprofit sector shine through, making this a must-listen for anyone involved in nonprofit work. For more resources and to access the Nonprofit Startup Checklist, visit nextlevelnonprofits.us.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2025 18:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Strangest Secret of Volunteer Management</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Transforming Nonprofit Leadership: Strategies for Success and Volunteer Engagement</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dan Johnson, founder of Next Level Nonprofits. Dan shared his journey from politics to the nonprofit sector, emphasizing the importance of community-driven solutions over political ones. He works primarily with new nonprofit leaders and executive directors, helping them clarify their vision and effectively communicate their impact to potential donors and volunteers.

We delved into the challenges faced by nonprofit organizations, particularly the misconception that fundraising is solely about asking for money. Dan introduced the concept of "permission-based fundraising," where the focus is on the impact of the organization rather than just the financial ask. He highlighted the importance of understanding the three "paychecks" that volunteers seek: purpose, ownership, and mastery. By ensuring that volunteers feel valued and see the impact of their contributions, organizations can foster long-term engagement and commitment.

Dan also discussed the common pitfalls in nonprofit fundraising, such as failing to clearly define the organization's vision and impact. He provided practical advice on building relationships with donors and the significance of reporting back to them on the outcomes of their contributions.
Overall, this episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to create sustainable organizations. Dan's expertise and passion for empowering others in the nonprofit sector shine through, making this a must-listen for anyone involved in nonprofit work. For more resources and to access the Nonprofit Startup Checklist, visit nextlevelnonprofits.us.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dan Johnson, founder of Next Level Nonprofits. Dan shared his journey from politics to the nonprofit sector, emphasizing the importance of community-driven solutions over political ones. He works primarily with new nonprofit leaders and executive directors, helping them clarify their vision and effectively communicate their impact to potential donors and volunteers.</p><p><br></p><p>We delved into the challenges faced by nonprofit organizations, particularly the misconception that fundraising is solely about asking for money. Dan introduced the concept of "permission-based fundraising," where the focus is on the impact of the organization rather than just the financial ask. He highlighted the importance of understanding the three "paychecks" that volunteers seek: purpose, ownership, and mastery. By ensuring that volunteers feel valued and see the impact of their contributions, organizations can foster long-term engagement and commitment.</p><p><br></p><p>Dan also discussed the common pitfalls in nonprofit fundraising, such as failing to clearly define the organization's vision and impact. He provided practical advice on building relationships with donors and the significance of reporting back to them on the outcomes of their contributions.</p><p>Overall, this episode is packed with valuable insights for nonprofit leaders looking to create sustainable organizations. Dan's expertise and passion for empowering others in the nonprofit sector shine through, making this a must-listen for anyone involved in nonprofit work. For more resources and to access the Nonprofit Startup Checklist, visit nextlevelnonprofits.us.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1566</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[ea4a7e10-f942-11ef-be49-63b929d57956]]></guid>
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    <item>
      <title>Stopping Predators: The Mission of the Innocent Lives Foundation</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/02/25/npe-mission-for-justice/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the privilege of speaking with Chris Hadnagy, founder of the Innocent Lives Foundation (ILF). Chris shared his journey from being a cybersecurity expert to becoming a passionate advocate for child protection. He recounted a pivotal moment in his career when he discovered a child predator during a job, which opened his eyes to the severity of child exploitation in America.

Chris explained the mission of the ILF, which focuses on stopping child predators before they can harm children. He emphasized the importance of working closely with law enforcement and shared the organization's unique approach to safely conducting research on the dark web without exposing volunteers to illegal content. Over the past seven and a half years, the ILF has successfully handed over 568 cases to law enforcement agencies, making a significant impact in the fight against child exploitation.

We discussed the alarming statistics surrounding child abuse material, with millions of images reported each year, and the rise of sextortion, where predators manipulate children into sharing explicit content. Chris provided valuable insights for parents on recognizing the signs of grooming and the importance of open communication with their children about these dangers.
Throughout our conversation, Chris highlighted the need for community involvement and support for organizations like the ILF. He encouraged listeners to take action, whether through donations, volunteering, or simply having crucial conversations with their children about safety and trust.

This episode serves as a powerful reminder of the pervasive issue of child exploitation and the collective responsibility we all share in protecting our children. I hope you find this discussion as enlightening and motivating as I did.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 Feb 2025 21:25:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Creating Safe Futures: How Parents Can Combat Child Grooming</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the privilege of speaking with Chris Hadnagy, founder of the Innocent Lives Foundation (ILF). Chris shared his journey from being a cybersecurity expert to becoming a passionate advocate for child protection. He recounted a pivotal moment in his career when he discovered a child predator during a job, which opened his eyes to the severity of child exploitation in America.

Chris explained the mission of the ILF, which focuses on stopping child predators before they can harm children. He emphasized the importance of working closely with law enforcement and shared the organization's unique approach to safely conducting research on the dark web without exposing volunteers to illegal content. Over the past seven and a half years, the ILF has successfully handed over 568 cases to law enforcement agencies, making a significant impact in the fight against child exploitation.

We discussed the alarming statistics surrounding child abuse material, with millions of images reported each year, and the rise of sextortion, where predators manipulate children into sharing explicit content. Chris provided valuable insights for parents on recognizing the signs of grooming and the importance of open communication with their children about these dangers.
Throughout our conversation, Chris highlighted the need for community involvement and support for organizations like the ILF. He encouraged listeners to take action, whether through donations, volunteering, or simply having crucial conversations with their children about safety and trust.

This episode serves as a powerful reminder of the pervasive issue of child exploitation and the collective responsibility we all share in protecting our children. I hope you find this discussion as enlightening and motivating as I did.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the privilege of speaking with Chris Hadnagy, founder of the Innocent Lives Foundation (ILF). Chris shared his journey from being a cybersecurity expert to becoming a passionate advocate for child protection. He recounted a pivotal moment in his career when he discovered a child predator during a job, which opened his eyes to the severity of child exploitation in America.</p><p><br></p><p>Chris explained the mission of the ILF, which focuses on stopping child predators before they can harm children. He emphasized the importance of working closely with law enforcement and shared the organization's unique approach to safely conducting research on the dark web without exposing volunteers to illegal content. Over the past seven and a half years, the ILF has successfully handed over 568 cases to law enforcement agencies, making a significant impact in the fight against child exploitation.</p><p><br></p><p>We discussed the alarming statistics surrounding child abuse material, with millions of images reported each year, and the rise of sextortion, where predators manipulate children into sharing explicit content. Chris provided valuable insights for parents on recognizing the signs of grooming and the importance of open communication with their children about these dangers.</p><p>Throughout our conversation, Chris highlighted the need for community involvement and support for organizations like the ILF. He encouraged listeners to take action, whether through donations, volunteering, or simply having crucial conversations with their children about safety and trust.</p><p><br></p><p>This episode serves as a powerful reminder of the pervasive issue of child exploitation and the collective responsibility we all share in protecting our children. I hope you find this discussion as enlightening and motivating as I did.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1587</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[fc58c190-f3be-11ef-95da-eb10b5326973]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8873255088.mp3?updated=1740519008" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Learning to Read People is Learning to Lead People</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/02/18/npe-reading-people/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Eric Key, a passionate educator and author based in California. Eric's expertise lies in understanding personality types and how they relate to effective leadership. He shared insights from his background in creative writing and education, where he developed a unique personality typing methodology after working with thousands of students and their families.

Eric's book, "The Power of Personality," is a culmination of his research and practical experience, offering a fresh perspective on how to read and lead people. He categorizes individuals into four personality packs—gatherers, hunters, shamans, and smiths—each represented by animal types. This approach helps us understand the core values that drive people's behaviors and interactions.

Throughout our conversation, we explored the importance of recognizing and valuing different personality types, especially in leadership roles. Eric emphasized that effective leadership requires understanding and adapting to the diverse values of team members rather than imposing one's own values onto others. He also highlighted the significance of authenticity and self-awareness in fostering meaningful relationships, both personally and professionally.

We discussed the limitations of traditional personality tests and how Eric's methodology encourages individuals to explore their true selves before labeling themselves based on test results. The episode concluded with Eric's advice to find one's anchor in personality, allowing for personal growth while remaining true to oneself.

This episode is a valuable resource for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and improve their relationships by understanding the diverse personalities around them. Be sure to check out Eric's website, projectutopia.com, for more information on his work and to explore his book.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 18 Feb 2025 20:39:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Learning to Read People is Learning to Lead People</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Authenticity in Leadership: Embracing Your True Self and Values</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Eric Key, a passionate educator and author based in California. Eric's expertise lies in understanding personality types and how they relate to effective leadership. He shared insights from his background in creative writing and education, where he developed a unique personality typing methodology after working with thousands of students and their families.

Eric's book, "The Power of Personality," is a culmination of his research and practical experience, offering a fresh perspective on how to read and lead people. He categorizes individuals into four personality packs—gatherers, hunters, shamans, and smiths—each represented by animal types. This approach helps us understand the core values that drive people's behaviors and interactions.

Throughout our conversation, we explored the importance of recognizing and valuing different personality types, especially in leadership roles. Eric emphasized that effective leadership requires understanding and adapting to the diverse values of team members rather than imposing one's own values onto others. He also highlighted the significance of authenticity and self-awareness in fostering meaningful relationships, both personally and professionally.

We discussed the limitations of traditional personality tests and how Eric's methodology encourages individuals to explore their true selves before labeling themselves based on test results. The episode concluded with Eric's advice to find one's anchor in personality, allowing for personal growth while remaining true to oneself.

This episode is a valuable resource for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and improve their relationships by understanding the diverse personalities around them. Be sure to check out Eric's website, projectutopia.com, for more information on his work and to explore his book.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Eric Key, a passionate educator and author based in California. Eric's expertise lies in understanding personality types and how they relate to effective leadership. He shared insights from his background in creative writing and education, where he developed a unique personality typing methodology after working with thousands of students and their families.</p><p><br></p><p>Eric's book, "The Power of Personality," is a culmination of his research and practical experience, offering a fresh perspective on how to read and lead people. He categorizes individuals into four personality packs—gatherers, hunters, shamans, and smiths—each represented by animal types. This approach helps us understand the core values that drive people's behaviors and interactions.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our conversation, we explored the importance of recognizing and valuing different personality types, especially in leadership roles. Eric emphasized that effective leadership requires understanding and adapting to the diverse values of team members rather than imposing one's own values onto others. He also highlighted the significance of authenticity and self-awareness in fostering meaningful relationships, both personally and professionally.</p><p><br></p><p>We discussed the limitations of traditional personality tests and how Eric's methodology encourages individuals to explore their true selves before labeling themselves based on test results. The episode concluded with Eric's advice to find one's anchor in personality, allowing for personal growth while remaining true to oneself.</p><p><br></p><p>This episode is a valuable resource for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and improve their relationships by understanding the diverse personalities around them. Be sure to check out Eric's website, projectutopia.com, for more information on his work and to explore his book.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1599</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[70056abc-ee38-11ef-b179-77abbb5902c9]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3073961281.mp3?updated=1739911465" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>When Your World Ends: God's Creative Process for Rebuilding a Life</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/02/11/npe-rebuilding-after-loss/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of interviewing Dawn Mann Sanders, a Bible teacher, newly published author, and associate minister at the First Baptist Church of Glen Arden in Maryland. Dawn shared her inspiring journey of rebuilding her life after experiencing multiple soul-crushing disappointments, including a divorce, the loss of her husband, and miscarriages.

Dawn discussed how these life-altering events shaped her vision as a leader, emphasizing that while she felt lost during her struggles, she ultimately found healing and purpose. She highlighted the importance of recognizing that life doesn't always follow a predetermined checklist and that it's okay to redefine our goals and aspirations after significant changes.
Her book, "When the World Ends," outlines a seven-step process for rebuilding one's life after challenges. Drawing from the creation story in Genesis, Dawn illustrates how we can transform chaos and emptiness into a fruitful and blessed life. She also emphasized the importance of grieving fully before attempting to rebuild, as well as the role of spiritual disciplines in processing emotions.

Dawn's insights are particularly valuable for leaders in any community, especially those in faith-based organizations, as they navigate their own challenges and support others through theirs. She encourages listeners to embrace change and take an active role in shaping their lives, reminding us that even when life doesn't go as planned, there is still hope for a fulfilling future.
Overall, this episode is a powerful reminder of resilience, healing, and the potential for growth after adversity. I encourage everyone to check out Dawn's book and explore the resources available on her website.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 11 Feb 2025 21:55:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>When Your World Ends: God's Creative Process for Rebuilding a Life</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Rebuilding After Loss: Dawn Mann Sanders on Healing and Leadership</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of interviewing Dawn Mann Sanders, a Bible teacher, newly published author, and associate minister at the First Baptist Church of Glen Arden in Maryland. Dawn shared her inspiring journey of rebuilding her life after experiencing multiple soul-crushing disappointments, including a divorce, the loss of her husband, and miscarriages.

Dawn discussed how these life-altering events shaped her vision as a leader, emphasizing that while she felt lost during her struggles, she ultimately found healing and purpose. She highlighted the importance of recognizing that life doesn't always follow a predetermined checklist and that it's okay to redefine our goals and aspirations after significant changes.
Her book, "When the World Ends," outlines a seven-step process for rebuilding one's life after challenges. Drawing from the creation story in Genesis, Dawn illustrates how we can transform chaos and emptiness into a fruitful and blessed life. She also emphasized the importance of grieving fully before attempting to rebuild, as well as the role of spiritual disciplines in processing emotions.

Dawn's insights are particularly valuable for leaders in any community, especially those in faith-based organizations, as they navigate their own challenges and support others through theirs. She encourages listeners to embrace change and take an active role in shaping their lives, reminding us that even when life doesn't go as planned, there is still hope for a fulfilling future.
Overall, this episode is a powerful reminder of resilience, healing, and the potential for growth after adversity. I encourage everyone to check out Dawn's book and explore the resources available on her website.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of interviewing Dawn Mann Sanders, a Bible teacher, newly published author, and associate minister at the First Baptist Church of Glen Arden in Maryland. Dawn shared her inspiring journey of rebuilding her life after experiencing multiple soul-crushing disappointments, including a divorce, the loss of her husband, and miscarriages.</p><p><br></p><p>Dawn discussed how these life-altering events shaped her vision as a leader, emphasizing that while she felt lost during her struggles, she ultimately found healing and purpose. She highlighted the importance of recognizing that life doesn't always follow a predetermined checklist and that it's okay to redefine our goals and aspirations after significant changes.</p><p>Her book, "When the World Ends," outlines a seven-step process for rebuilding one's life after challenges. Drawing from the creation story in Genesis, Dawn illustrates how we can transform chaos and emptiness into a fruitful and blessed life. She also emphasized the importance of grieving fully before attempting to rebuild, as well as the role of spiritual disciplines in processing emotions.</p><p><br></p><p>Dawn's insights are particularly valuable for leaders in any community, especially those in faith-based organizations, as they navigate their own challenges and support others through theirs. She encourages listeners to embrace change and take an active role in shaping their lives, reminding us that even when life doesn't go as planned, there is still hope for a fulfilling future.</p><p>Overall, this episode is a powerful reminder of resilience, healing, and the potential for growth after adversity. I encourage everyone to check out Dawn's book and explore the resources available on her website.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1558</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[e508276c-e8c2-11ef-a8d1-e7af829ba11d]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4578748987.mp3?updated=1739311224" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Power Conversations - Discover Your Authentic Leadership Voice</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/02/04/npe-power-conversations/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Karen Jacobson, a seasoned leadership consultant and author of the book "Power Conversations: Creating First Impressions to Lasting Connections." Karen shared her extensive background, which includes growing up in Israel, serving as an officer in the Israeli army, and transitioning from a career as a chiropractor to a leadership consultant focused on STEAM organizations.
We delved into the importance of effective communication and the nuances of having meaningful conversations. Karen emphasized that conversations should be a dialogue, not a monologue, and highlighted the significance of understanding the other person's communication style to build rapport. She also discussed the concept of STEAM—science, technology, engineering, arts, and mathematics—and how it relates to different communication styles and behaviors.

Throughout our discussion, Karen shared valuable insights on leadership, including the need for leaders to be strategic thinkers who can adapt their styles based on the needs of their teams. She illustrated this with a compelling example of a client who initially struggled with team cohesion but ultimately transformed into a unified group through intentional relationship-building.

We also touched on the idea that leadership is not confined to formal titles; anyone can be a leader in their community or family. Karen encouraged listeners to step out of their comfort zones and seek mentorship to develop their leadership skills.

As we wrapped up, Karen left us with a powerful reminder: never be afraid to push your boundaries, as great opportunities often lie just beyond them. This conversation was not only enlightening but also a call to action for all leaders to engage, align, and lead effectively.
For more insights and resources, I encourage you to visit Karen's website at drkarenjacobson.com. 

Thank you for joining us on this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 04 Feb 2025 22:24:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Power Conversations - Discover Your Authentic Leadership Voice</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Mastering the Art of Meaningful Conversations</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Karen Jacobson, a seasoned leadership consultant and author of the book "Power Conversations: Creating First Impressions to Lasting Connections." Karen shared her extensive background, which includes growing up in Israel, serving as an officer in the Israeli army, and transitioning from a career as a chiropractor to a leadership consultant focused on STEAM organizations.
We delved into the importance of effective communication and the nuances of having meaningful conversations. Karen emphasized that conversations should be a dialogue, not a monologue, and highlighted the significance of understanding the other person's communication style to build rapport. She also discussed the concept of STEAM—science, technology, engineering, arts, and mathematics—and how it relates to different communication styles and behaviors.

Throughout our discussion, Karen shared valuable insights on leadership, including the need for leaders to be strategic thinkers who can adapt their styles based on the needs of their teams. She illustrated this with a compelling example of a client who initially struggled with team cohesion but ultimately transformed into a unified group through intentional relationship-building.

We also touched on the idea that leadership is not confined to formal titles; anyone can be a leader in their community or family. Karen encouraged listeners to step out of their comfort zones and seek mentorship to develop their leadership skills.

As we wrapped up, Karen left us with a powerful reminder: never be afraid to push your boundaries, as great opportunities often lie just beyond them. This conversation was not only enlightening but also a call to action for all leaders to engage, align, and lead effectively.
For more insights and resources, I encourage you to visit Karen's website at drkarenjacobson.com. 

Thank you for joining us on this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Karen Jacobson, a seasoned leadership consultant and author of the book "Power Conversations: Creating First Impressions to Lasting Connections." Karen shared her extensive background, which includes growing up in Israel, serving as an officer in the Israeli army, and transitioning from a career as a chiropractor to a leadership consultant focused on STEAM organizations.</p><p>We delved into the importance of effective communication and the nuances of having meaningful conversations. Karen emphasized that conversations should be a dialogue, not a monologue, and highlighted the significance of understanding the other person's communication style to build rapport. She also discussed the concept of STEAM—science, technology, engineering, arts, and mathematics—and how it relates to different communication styles and behaviors.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our discussion, Karen shared valuable insights on leadership, including the need for leaders to be strategic thinkers who can adapt their styles based on the needs of their teams. She illustrated this with a compelling example of a client who initially struggled with team cohesion but ultimately transformed into a unified group through intentional relationship-building.</p><p><br></p><p>We also touched on the idea that leadership is not confined to formal titles; anyone can be a leader in their community or family. Karen encouraged listeners to step out of their comfort zones and seek mentorship to develop their leadership skills.</p><p><br></p><p>As we wrapped up, Karen left us with a powerful reminder: never be afraid to push your boundaries, as great opportunities often lie just beyond them. This conversation was not only enlightening but also a call to action for all leaders to engage, align, and lead effectively.</p><p>For more insights and resources, I encourage you to visit Karen's website at drkarenjacobson.com. </p><p><br></p><p>Thank you for joining us on this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1483</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[ce07866a-e346-11ef-af76-1b4c3de217cf]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5864695194.mp3?updated=1738708172" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>From Shame to Strength</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/01/28/npe-shame-to-strength/</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Abbie Maroño , a psychologist and author, about the critical topics of shame, vulnerability, and empowerment in leadership. Abby shared her personal journey, detailing her difficult upbringing and the traumas she faced, which ultimately fueled her passion for understanding human emotions and helping others navigate their own challenges.

Abbie emphasized the importance of recognizing the difference between toxic shame and healthy shame. While toxic shame can lead to feelings of unworthiness, healthy shame serves as a signal for personal growth and change. She highlighted that shame is a normal human emotion that can guide us toward better behavior and stronger social bonds when we learn to listen to it rather than suppress it.

We discussed the misconceptions surrounding vulnerability in leadership, with Abbie arguing that true empowerment does not mean being bulletproof. Instead, she encouraged leaders to embrace their flaws and be authentic, as this fosters trust and empathy within their teams. We also touched on the impact of emotional contagion, where a leader's emotional state can significantly affect their team's morale and trustworthiness.

Abbie’s insights on emotional regulation and self-awareness are invaluable for nonprofit leaders, who often face high burnout rates due to the pressures of their roles. She reminded us that it’s essential for leaders to confront their own emotions to effectively support others.
As we wrapped up, Abbie left us with a powerful message: it’s okay to be flawed and human. Understanding our emotional experiences is not just beneficial for ourselves but is also a responsibility we have to those we lead. This conversation was enlightening, and I hope it inspires our listeners to embrace their vulnerabilities and foster authentic connections in their leadership journeys.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 29 Jan 2025 00:26:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>From Shame to Strength</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>A Journey of Emotional Regulation in Leadership</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Abbie Maroño , a psychologist and author, about the critical topics of shame, vulnerability, and empowerment in leadership. Abby shared her personal journey, detailing her difficult upbringing and the traumas she faced, which ultimately fueled her passion for understanding human emotions and helping others navigate their own challenges.

Abbie emphasized the importance of recognizing the difference between toxic shame and healthy shame. While toxic shame can lead to feelings of unworthiness, healthy shame serves as a signal for personal growth and change. She highlighted that shame is a normal human emotion that can guide us toward better behavior and stronger social bonds when we learn to listen to it rather than suppress it.

We discussed the misconceptions surrounding vulnerability in leadership, with Abbie arguing that true empowerment does not mean being bulletproof. Instead, she encouraged leaders to embrace their flaws and be authentic, as this fosters trust and empathy within their teams. We also touched on the impact of emotional contagion, where a leader's emotional state can significantly affect their team's morale and trustworthiness.

Abbie’s insights on emotional regulation and self-awareness are invaluable for nonprofit leaders, who often face high burnout rates due to the pressures of their roles. She reminded us that it’s essential for leaders to confront their own emotions to effectively support others.
As we wrapped up, Abbie left us with a powerful message: it’s okay to be flawed and human. Understanding our emotional experiences is not just beneficial for ourselves but is also a responsibility we have to those we lead. This conversation was enlightening, and I hope it inspires our listeners to embrace their vulnerabilities and foster authentic connections in their leadership journeys.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Abbie Maroño , a psychologist and author, about the critical topics of shame, vulnerability, and empowerment in leadership. Abby shared her personal journey, detailing her difficult upbringing and the traumas she faced, which ultimately fueled her passion for understanding human emotions and helping others navigate their own challenges.</p><p><br></p><p>Abbie emphasized the importance of recognizing the difference between toxic shame and healthy shame. While toxic shame can lead to feelings of unworthiness, healthy shame serves as a signal for personal growth and change. She highlighted that shame is a normal human emotion that can guide us toward better behavior and stronger social bonds when we learn to listen to it rather than suppress it.</p><p><br></p><p>We discussed the misconceptions surrounding vulnerability in leadership, with Abbie arguing that true empowerment does not mean being bulletproof. Instead, she encouraged leaders to embrace their flaws and be authentic, as this fosters trust and empathy within their teams. We also touched on the impact of emotional contagion, where a leader's emotional state can significantly affect their team's morale and trustworthiness.</p><p><br></p><p>Abbie’s insights on emotional regulation and self-awareness are invaluable for nonprofit leaders, who often face high burnout rates due to the pressures of their roles. She reminded us that it’s essential for leaders to confront their own emotions to effectively support others.</p><p>As we wrapped up, Abbie left us with a powerful message: it’s okay to be flawed and human. Understanding our emotional experiences is not just beneficial for ourselves but is also a responsibility we have to those we lead. This conversation was enlightening, and I hope it inspires our listeners to embrace their vulnerabilities and foster authentic connections in their leadership journeys.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1645</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[b6d74c2e-ddd7-11ef-b201-771e295d3b8c]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8003954751.mp3?updated=1738160832" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>From Doubt to Do: Navigating Your Pathway to Possibility</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/01/21/npe-pathway-to-possibility/ </link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Kat O'Sullivan, a passionate advocate for challenging limiting labels and empowering individuals to embrace their full potential. Kat shared her inspiring journey from the corporate world in human resources to the nonprofit sector, where she found her true calling in consulting and coaching.

Kat's transformative experience began at the age of 14 when she participated in an Up With People performance, which ignited her passion for making a difference. She recounted a pivotal moment when, at just 16, she reached out to the legendary Bob Hope for sponsorship to join the program. This bold move not only changed her life but also led her to develop her "Hell Yes Strategy," which encourages individuals to shift their mindset to one of possibility and take courageous action.

Throughout our conversation, Kat emphasized the importance of challenging stereotypes and biases, sharing a powerful story about her first host family experience that shattered her preconceived notions. We discussed the common scarcity mentality in the nonprofit sector and how it often prevents organizations from asking for the support they need. Kat highlighted that by embracing a mindset of abundance and possibility, nonprofits can create meaningful connections with potential supporters.

Kat also introduced her book, "From Doubt to Do: Navigating Your Pathway to Possibility," which she wrote during the pandemic as a way to inspire others to reflect on their passions and pursue their dreams. She shared insights on how her coaching business helps individuals and organizations navigate significant transitions and make magic happen in their lives.
As we wrapped up the episode, Kat left us with a powerful challenge: to reflect on what embracing our full potential means and to set daily intentions that align with our bold new labels. Her message is a reminder that we are all creating our legacy moment by moment, and it's never too late to make a change.

Join us for this enlightening conversation that encourages you to rethink your possibilities and take action toward your dreams!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Jan 2025 20:07:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>From Doubt to Do: Navigating Your Pathway to Possibility</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>How to Transform Your Mindset and Impact</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Kat O'Sullivan, a passionate advocate for challenging limiting labels and empowering individuals to embrace their full potential. Kat shared her inspiring journey from the corporate world in human resources to the nonprofit sector, where she found her true calling in consulting and coaching.

Kat's transformative experience began at the age of 14 when she participated in an Up With People performance, which ignited her passion for making a difference. She recounted a pivotal moment when, at just 16, she reached out to the legendary Bob Hope for sponsorship to join the program. This bold move not only changed her life but also led her to develop her "Hell Yes Strategy," which encourages individuals to shift their mindset to one of possibility and take courageous action.

Throughout our conversation, Kat emphasized the importance of challenging stereotypes and biases, sharing a powerful story about her first host family experience that shattered her preconceived notions. We discussed the common scarcity mentality in the nonprofit sector and how it often prevents organizations from asking for the support they need. Kat highlighted that by embracing a mindset of abundance and possibility, nonprofits can create meaningful connections with potential supporters.

Kat also introduced her book, "From Doubt to Do: Navigating Your Pathway to Possibility," which she wrote during the pandemic as a way to inspire others to reflect on their passions and pursue their dreams. She shared insights on how her coaching business helps individuals and organizations navigate significant transitions and make magic happen in their lives.
As we wrapped up the episode, Kat left us with a powerful challenge: to reflect on what embracing our full potential means and to set daily intentions that align with our bold new labels. Her message is a reminder that we are all creating our legacy moment by moment, and it's never too late to make a change.

Join us for this enlightening conversation that encourages you to rethink your possibilities and take action toward your dreams!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Kat O'Sullivan, a passionate advocate for challenging limiting labels and empowering individuals to embrace their full potential. Kat shared her inspiring journey from the corporate world in human resources to the nonprofit sector, where she found her true calling in consulting and coaching.</p><p><br></p><p>Kat's transformative experience began at the age of 14 when she participated in an Up With People performance, which ignited her passion for making a difference. She recounted a pivotal moment when, at just 16, she reached out to the legendary Bob Hope for sponsorship to join the program. This bold move not only changed her life but also led her to develop her "Hell Yes Strategy," which encourages individuals to shift their mindset to one of possibility and take courageous action.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our conversation, Kat emphasized the importance of challenging stereotypes and biases, sharing a powerful story about her first host family experience that shattered her preconceived notions. We discussed the common scarcity mentality in the nonprofit sector and how it often prevents organizations from asking for the support they need. Kat highlighted that by embracing a mindset of abundance and possibility, nonprofits can create meaningful connections with potential supporters.</p><p><br></p><p>Kat also introduced her book, "From Doubt to Do: Navigating Your Pathway to Possibility," which she wrote during the pandemic as a way to inspire others to reflect on their passions and pursue their dreams. She shared insights on how her coaching business helps individuals and organizations navigate significant transitions and make magic happen in their lives.</p><p>As we wrapped up the episode, Kat left us with a powerful challenge: to reflect on what embracing our full potential means and to set daily intentions that align with our bold new labels. Her message is a reminder that we are all creating our legacy moment by moment, and it's never too late to make a change.</p><p><br></p><p>Join us for this enlightening conversation that encourages you to rethink your possibilities and take action toward your dreams!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1566</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[56e59090-d833-11ef-9839-df8602968a93]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8446311933.mp3?updated=1737490349" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Generosity: The Vision Behind $1.4 Billion in Donations</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/01/14/npe-generosity/Generosity: The Vision Behind $1.4 Billion in Donations</link>
      <description>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with John Bromley from Charitable Impact, a platform dedicated to enhancing charitable giving. We explored the concept of generosity and the vision behind the staggering 1.4 billion Canadian dollars in donations facilitated through their donor-advised fund.

Sean shared his background, highlighting his family's legacy in charity law and his journey into the charitable sector. He emphasized the importance of focusing on the donor's experience, allowing individuals to navigate their own giving journeys without being pressured to support specific charities. This approach fosters a sense of agency and joy in giving, which is often overlooked in discussions about philanthropy.

We discussed the dual impact of giving: the positive effects on both the recipient and the donor. Sean pointed out that while it's crucial to understand the impact of our donations, we should also recognize the personal fulfillment that comes from giving. He encouraged listeners to embrace the complexities of charitable giving, likening it to learning a musical instrument or cooking—both challenging yet rewarding endeavors.

Sean explained the mechanics of donor-advised funds, which serve as a flexible tool for managing charitable contributions. He highlighted that anyone can be a philanthropist, regardless of the amount they can give, and that the joy of giving comes from the journey of making informed choices about where to allocate funds.

Throughout our conversation, Sean provided valuable insights into how donors can better understand their motivations and the importance of tracking the impact of their contributions. He also addressed the misconceptions that nonprofit leaders may have about donor motivations and the need for a more nuanced understanding of the giving landscape.

In closing, Sean encouraged everyone to engage in charitable giving as a lifelong journey, emphasizing that it's okay to make mistakes along the way. The key is to learn from those experiences and continue to find joy in the act of giving. This episode serves as a reminder that generosity is not just about the money we give, but about the connections we make and the positive changes we inspire in the world.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 17 Jan 2025 23:02:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Generosity: The Vision Behind $1.4 Billion in Donations</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Future of Giving is Social</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with John Bromley from Charitable Impact, a platform dedicated to enhancing charitable giving. We explored the concept of generosity and the vision behind the staggering 1.4 billion Canadian dollars in donations facilitated through their donor-advised fund.

Sean shared his background, highlighting his family's legacy in charity law and his journey into the charitable sector. He emphasized the importance of focusing on the donor's experience, allowing individuals to navigate their own giving journeys without being pressured to support specific charities. This approach fosters a sense of agency and joy in giving, which is often overlooked in discussions about philanthropy.

We discussed the dual impact of giving: the positive effects on both the recipient and the donor. Sean pointed out that while it's crucial to understand the impact of our donations, we should also recognize the personal fulfillment that comes from giving. He encouraged listeners to embrace the complexities of charitable giving, likening it to learning a musical instrument or cooking—both challenging yet rewarding endeavors.

Sean explained the mechanics of donor-advised funds, which serve as a flexible tool for managing charitable contributions. He highlighted that anyone can be a philanthropist, regardless of the amount they can give, and that the joy of giving comes from the journey of making informed choices about where to allocate funds.

Throughout our conversation, Sean provided valuable insights into how donors can better understand their motivations and the importance of tracking the impact of their contributions. He also addressed the misconceptions that nonprofit leaders may have about donor motivations and the need for a more nuanced understanding of the giving landscape.

In closing, Sean encouraged everyone to engage in charitable giving as a lifelong journey, emphasizing that it's okay to make mistakes along the way. The key is to learn from those experiences and continue to find joy in the act of giving. This episode serves as a reminder that generosity is not just about the money we give, but about the connections we make and the positive changes we inspire in the world.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with John Bromley from Charitable Impact, a platform dedicated to enhancing charitable giving. We explored the concept of generosity and the vision behind the staggering 1.4 billion Canadian dollars in donations facilitated through their donor-advised fund.</p><p><br></p><p>Sean shared his background, highlighting his family's legacy in charity law and his journey into the charitable sector. He emphasized the importance of focusing on the donor's experience, allowing individuals to navigate their own giving journeys without being pressured to support specific charities. This approach fosters a sense of agency and joy in giving, which is often overlooked in discussions about philanthropy.</p><p><br></p><p>We discussed the dual impact of giving: the positive effects on both the recipient and the donor. Sean pointed out that while it's crucial to understand the impact of our donations, we should also recognize the personal fulfillment that comes from giving. He encouraged listeners to embrace the complexities of charitable giving, likening it to learning a musical instrument or cooking—both challenging yet rewarding endeavors.</p><p><br></p><p>Sean explained the mechanics of donor-advised funds, which serve as a flexible tool for managing charitable contributions. He highlighted that anyone can be a philanthropist, regardless of the amount they can give, and that the joy of giving comes from the journey of making informed choices about where to allocate funds.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our conversation, Sean provided valuable insights into how donors can better understand their motivations and the importance of tracking the impact of their contributions. He also addressed the misconceptions that nonprofit leaders may have about donor motivations and the need for a more nuanced understanding of the giving landscape.</p><p><br></p><p>In closing, Sean encouraged everyone to engage in charitable giving as a lifelong journey, emphasizing that it's okay to make mistakes along the way. The key is to learn from those experiences and continue to find joy in the act of giving. This episode serves as a reminder that generosity is not just about the money we give, but about the connections we make and the positive changes we inspire in the world.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1713</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[e9b99a14-d2d0-11ef-a068-53ef8f23acf9]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1432362303.mp3?updated=1737155258" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Transforming Conversations: The Art of Listening and Language with Chuck Wisner</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2025/01/08/npe-transforming-conversations/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Chuck Wisner, author of "The Art of Conscious Conversation." Chuck shared his fascinating journey from being a trained percussionist and architect to becoming a thought leader in the realm of communication and conversation transformation.

We delved into the importance of listening, a skill often underutilized in leadership. Chuck emphasized that true listening requires us to manage our inner dialogue and judgments, allowing us to be fully present and absorb different perspectives. He highlighted that self-reflection is crucial for developing emotional intelligence, which in turn enhances our ability to listen with empathy and compassion.

Chuck's book is structured around four archetypal types of conversations: storytelling, collaborative conversations, creative conversations, and commitment conversations. Each type serves as a building block for effective communication, enabling us to better understand ourselves and others. He provided practical insights on how to navigate conflicts by focusing on shared desires and principles, rather than getting caught up in disagreements.
As we wrapped up, Chuck encouraged listeners to embrace the power of questions over answers, fostering a mindset of curiosity and openness. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone looking to improve their communication skills, especially nonprofit leaders who face unique challenges in their work.

For more information, you can visit Chuck's website at chuckwisner.com, where you can find resources related to his book and articles on leadership and communication. Thank you for joining us for this enlightening conversation!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 08 Jan 2025 01:08:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Transforming Conversations: The Art of Listening and Language with Chuck Wisner</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle> Insights from Chuck Wisner on Conscious Conversations</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Chuck Wisner, author of "The Art of Conscious Conversation." Chuck shared his fascinating journey from being a trained percussionist and architect to becoming a thought leader in the realm of communication and conversation transformation.

We delved into the importance of listening, a skill often underutilized in leadership. Chuck emphasized that true listening requires us to manage our inner dialogue and judgments, allowing us to be fully present and absorb different perspectives. He highlighted that self-reflection is crucial for developing emotional intelligence, which in turn enhances our ability to listen with empathy and compassion.

Chuck's book is structured around four archetypal types of conversations: storytelling, collaborative conversations, creative conversations, and commitment conversations. Each type serves as a building block for effective communication, enabling us to better understand ourselves and others. He provided practical insights on how to navigate conflicts by focusing on shared desires and principles, rather than getting caught up in disagreements.
As we wrapped up, Chuck encouraged listeners to embrace the power of questions over answers, fostering a mindset of curiosity and openness. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone looking to improve their communication skills, especially nonprofit leaders who face unique challenges in their work.

For more information, you can visit Chuck's website at chuckwisner.com, where you can find resources related to his book and articles on leadership and communication. Thank you for joining us for this enlightening conversation!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Chuck Wisner, author of "The Art of Conscious Conversation." Chuck shared his fascinating journey from being a trained percussionist and architect to becoming a thought leader in the realm of communication and conversation transformation.</p><p><br></p><p>We delved into the importance of listening, a skill often underutilized in leadership. Chuck emphasized that true listening requires us to manage our inner dialogue and judgments, allowing us to be fully present and absorb different perspectives. He highlighted that self-reflection is crucial for developing emotional intelligence, which in turn enhances our ability to listen with empathy and compassion.</p><p><br></p><p>Chuck's book is structured around four archetypal types of conversations: storytelling, collaborative conversations, creative conversations, and commitment conversations. Each type serves as a building block for effective communication, enabling us to better understand ourselves and others. He provided practical insights on how to navigate conflicts by focusing on shared desires and principles, rather than getting caught up in disagreements.</p><p>As we wrapped up, Chuck encouraged listeners to embrace the power of questions over answers, fostering a mindset of curiosity and openness. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone looking to improve their communication skills, especially nonprofit leaders who face unique challenges in their work.</p><p><br></p><p>For more information, you can visit Chuck's website at chuckwisner.com, where you can find resources related to his book and articles on leadership and communication. Thank you for joining us for this enlightening conversation!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1752</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[04324b76-cd5d-11ef-87d3-238f9866efb4]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4119839553.mp3?updated=1736298787" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Living in Tolerance: A Conversation with Bret Hrbek on Promoting Respect and Dignity</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/12/31/npe-living-in-tolerance/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Bret Hrbek, the president of the Zeta Beta Tau Foundation. Bret shared his deep-rooted connection to the Zeta Beta Tau fraternity, which began during his undergraduate years at Virginia Tech in 1993. His journey through various leadership roles within the fraternity has shaped his commitment to fostering personal growth among young men and ensuring the fraternity's positive impact continues for future generations.

Bret discussed the foundation's new initiative aimed at combating intolerance on college campuses. This program seeks to address various forms of discrimination, including antisemitism, racial intolerance, and more, by promoting understanding and respect among students. He emphasized the importance of creating a safe space for meaningful conversations, where individuals from diverse backgrounds can engage in dialogue and learn from one another.

We explored the challenges facing the fraternity system today, particularly in light of recent societal issues, and how the Zeta Beta Tau Foundation is uniquely positioned to make a difference. Bret highlighted the importance of partnerships with other organizations, including Rotary, to amplify their efforts in promoting tolerance and understanding.

As we wrapped up, Bret encouraged listeners to support the foundation's mission, whether through financial contributions or by engaging in collaborative efforts. His passion for fostering a culture of tolerance and respect is truly inspiring, and I believe this initiative has the potential to create a significant positive impact on college campuses across the country.

For more information about the Zeta Beta Tau Foundation and their intolerance initiative, visit their website at zbtfoundation.org.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 07 Jan 2025 17:54:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Living in Tolerance: A Conversation with Bret Hrbek on Promoting Respect and Dignity</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle></itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Bret Hrbek, the president of the Zeta Beta Tau Foundation. Bret shared his deep-rooted connection to the Zeta Beta Tau fraternity, which began during his undergraduate years at Virginia Tech in 1993. His journey through various leadership roles within the fraternity has shaped his commitment to fostering personal growth among young men and ensuring the fraternity's positive impact continues for future generations.

Bret discussed the foundation's new initiative aimed at combating intolerance on college campuses. This program seeks to address various forms of discrimination, including antisemitism, racial intolerance, and more, by promoting understanding and respect among students. He emphasized the importance of creating a safe space for meaningful conversations, where individuals from diverse backgrounds can engage in dialogue and learn from one another.

We explored the challenges facing the fraternity system today, particularly in light of recent societal issues, and how the Zeta Beta Tau Foundation is uniquely positioned to make a difference. Bret highlighted the importance of partnerships with other organizations, including Rotary, to amplify their efforts in promoting tolerance and understanding.

As we wrapped up, Bret encouraged listeners to support the foundation's mission, whether through financial contributions or by engaging in collaborative efforts. His passion for fostering a culture of tolerance and respect is truly inspiring, and I believe this initiative has the potential to create a significant positive impact on college campuses across the country.

For more information about the Zeta Beta Tau Foundation and their intolerance initiative, visit their website at zbtfoundation.org.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Bret Hrbek, the president of the Zeta Beta Tau Foundation. Bret shared his deep-rooted connection to the Zeta Beta Tau fraternity, which began during his undergraduate years at Virginia Tech in 1993. His journey through various leadership roles within the fraternity has shaped his commitment to fostering personal growth among young men and ensuring the fraternity's positive impact continues for future generations.</p><p><br></p><p>Bret discussed the foundation's new initiative aimed at combating intolerance on college campuses. This program seeks to address various forms of discrimination, including antisemitism, racial intolerance, and more, by promoting understanding and respect among students. He emphasized the importance of creating a safe space for meaningful conversations, where individuals from diverse backgrounds can engage in dialogue and learn from one another.</p><p><br></p><p>We explored the challenges facing the fraternity system today, particularly in light of recent societal issues, and how the Zeta Beta Tau Foundation is uniquely positioned to make a difference. Bret highlighted the importance of partnerships with other organizations, including Rotary, to amplify their efforts in promoting tolerance and understanding.</p><p><br></p><p>As we wrapped up, Bret encouraged listeners to support the foundation's mission, whether through financial contributions or by engaging in collaborative efforts. His passion for fostering a culture of tolerance and respect is truly inspiring, and I believe this initiative has the potential to create a significant positive impact on college campuses across the country.</p><p><br></p><p>For more information about the Zeta Beta Tau Foundation and their intolerance initiative, visit their website at zbtfoundation.org.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1356</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Know Your Soul</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/12/24/npe-know-your-soul/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Joseph Howell, a psychologist and author of the revolutionary new book, "Know Your Soul: Journeying with the Enneagram." Dr. Howell shared insights from his personal journey and professional experiences, emphasizing the importance of understanding our souls in addition to our personalities.

Dr. Howell explained how the Enneagram, an ancient wisdom system, has profoundly influenced his life and work. He discussed the distinction between the ego and the soul, highlighting that while our ego helps us navigate the world, it can also distract us from our true essence. The soul, according to Dr. Howell, is focused on love, compassion, and connection, which are essential for healing and personal growth.

We explored the concept of the "soul child," the pure and innocent part of ourselves that exists before the ego takes over. Dr. Howell emphasized the need to reconnect with this aspect of ourselves to lead more fulfilling lives. He also addressed the book's target audience—those seeking inner peace and improved relationships—and how it can serve as a valuable resource for leaders looking to influence others positively.

Throughout our conversation, Dr. Howell's passion for helping others understand their souls shone through. He believes that by doing so, we can foster deeper connections and create a more compassionate world. I encourage listeners to check out "Know Your Soul," available on platforms like Amazon and Barnes &amp; Noble, and to visit the Institute for Conscious Being's website for more resources. Thank you for joining us today!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Dec 2024 22:10:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Know Your Soul</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Journeying with the Enneagram</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Joseph Howell, a psychologist and author of the revolutionary new book, "Know Your Soul: Journeying with the Enneagram." Dr. Howell shared insights from his personal journey and professional experiences, emphasizing the importance of understanding our souls in addition to our personalities.

Dr. Howell explained how the Enneagram, an ancient wisdom system, has profoundly influenced his life and work. He discussed the distinction between the ego and the soul, highlighting that while our ego helps us navigate the world, it can also distract us from our true essence. The soul, according to Dr. Howell, is focused on love, compassion, and connection, which are essential for healing and personal growth.

We explored the concept of the "soul child," the pure and innocent part of ourselves that exists before the ego takes over. Dr. Howell emphasized the need to reconnect with this aspect of ourselves to lead more fulfilling lives. He also addressed the book's target audience—those seeking inner peace and improved relationships—and how it can serve as a valuable resource for leaders looking to influence others positively.

Throughout our conversation, Dr. Howell's passion for helping others understand their souls shone through. He believes that by doing so, we can foster deeper connections and create a more compassionate world. I encourage listeners to check out "Know Your Soul," available on platforms like Amazon and Barnes &amp; Noble, and to visit the Institute for Conscious Being's website for more resources. Thank you for joining us today!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Joseph Howell, a psychologist and author of the revolutionary new book, "Know Your Soul: Journeying with the Enneagram." Dr. Howell shared insights from his personal journey and professional experiences, emphasizing the importance of understanding our souls in addition to our personalities.</p><p><br></p><p>Dr. Howell explained how the Enneagram, an ancient wisdom system, has profoundly influenced his life and work. He discussed the distinction between the ego and the soul, highlighting that while our ego helps us navigate the world, it can also distract us from our true essence. The soul, according to Dr. Howell, is focused on love, compassion, and connection, which are essential for healing and personal growth.</p><p><br></p><p>We explored the concept of the "soul child," the pure and innocent part of ourselves that exists before the ego takes over. Dr. Howell emphasized the need to reconnect with this aspect of ourselves to lead more fulfilling lives. He also addressed the book's target audience—those seeking inner peace and improved relationships—and how it can serve as a valuable resource for leaders looking to influence others positively.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our conversation, Dr. Howell's passion for helping others understand their souls shone through. He believes that by doing so, we can foster deeper connections and create a more compassionate world. I encourage listeners to check out "Know Your Soul," available on platforms like Amazon and Barnes &amp; Noble, and to visit the Institute for Conscious Being's website for more resources. Thank you for joining us today!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1723</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>From Local Clubs to Global Change: The Role of Rotary in Today's Society</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/12/17/npe-rotary-today/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Brett Herbeck, the District Governor of Rotary District 7570, which spans parts of Virginia and Tennessee. Brett shared his deep passion for Rotary and its mission of service above self, highlighting how the organization has been a significant part of his life since childhood. He discussed the importance of community involvement and the role Rotary plays in fostering connections among diverse individuals who share a commitment to making a positive impact.

Brett elaborated on Rotary's seven areas of focus, which include promoting peace, fighting disease, providing clean water, saving mothers and children, supporting education, growing local economies, and protecting the environment. He emphasized that these efforts contribute to creating peace in our communities and beyond.

We also explored how Rotary is evolving to be more inclusive and accessible, breaking down barriers to membership and adapting meeting formats to fit the needs of modern members. Brett encouraged listeners to find their local Rotary club, emphasizing that everyone is welcome and that there are various ways to engage with the organization.

Towards the end of our conversation, we discussed the upcoming District Conference in April, where members will gather to learn, share, and celebrate the impactful work being done across the district. Brett's enthusiasm for Rotary and its mission was truly inspiring, and I hope this episode motivates others to get involved in their communities through service.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2024 23:37:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>From Local Clubs to Global Change: The Role of Rotary in Today's Society</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Building Connections: The Rotary Impact</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Brett Herbeck, the District Governor of Rotary District 7570, which spans parts of Virginia and Tennessee. Brett shared his deep passion for Rotary and its mission of service above self, highlighting how the organization has been a significant part of his life since childhood. He discussed the importance of community involvement and the role Rotary plays in fostering connections among diverse individuals who share a commitment to making a positive impact.

Brett elaborated on Rotary's seven areas of focus, which include promoting peace, fighting disease, providing clean water, saving mothers and children, supporting education, growing local economies, and protecting the environment. He emphasized that these efforts contribute to creating peace in our communities and beyond.

We also explored how Rotary is evolving to be more inclusive and accessible, breaking down barriers to membership and adapting meeting formats to fit the needs of modern members. Brett encouraged listeners to find their local Rotary club, emphasizing that everyone is welcome and that there are various ways to engage with the organization.

Towards the end of our conversation, we discussed the upcoming District Conference in April, where members will gather to learn, share, and celebrate the impactful work being done across the district. Brett's enthusiasm for Rotary and its mission was truly inspiring, and I hope this episode motivates others to get involved in their communities through service.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Brett Herbeck, the District Governor of Rotary District 7570, which spans parts of Virginia and Tennessee. Brett shared his deep passion for Rotary and its mission of service above self, highlighting how the organization has been a significant part of his life since childhood. He discussed the importance of community involvement and the role Rotary plays in fostering connections among diverse individuals who share a commitment to making a positive impact.</p><p><br></p><p>Brett elaborated on Rotary's seven areas of focus, which include promoting peace, fighting disease, providing clean water, saving mothers and children, supporting education, growing local economies, and protecting the environment. He emphasized that these efforts contribute to creating peace in our communities and beyond.</p><p><br></p><p>We also explored how Rotary is evolving to be more inclusive and accessible, breaking down barriers to membership and adapting meeting formats to fit the needs of modern members. Brett encouraged listeners to find their local Rotary club, emphasizing that everyone is welcome and that there are various ways to engage with the organization.</p><p><br></p><p>Towards the end of our conversation, we discussed the upcoming District Conference in April, where members will gather to learn, share, and celebrate the impactful work being done across the district. Brett's enthusiasm for Rotary and its mission was truly inspiring, and I hope this episode motivates others to get involved in their communities through service.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1846</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[dfba8ee0-bccf-11ef-a05c-f7435f9e6bc9]]></guid>
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    <item>
      <title>Please Unsubscribe, Thanks! How to make your nonprofit more human</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/12/10/npe-please-unsubscribe/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with filmmaker and author Julio Gambuto. Julio shared insights from his journey in the film and television industry, particularly focusing on the lessons learned during the pandemic. His new book, "Please Unsubscribe, Thanks," serves as a guide for individuals and organizations to reevaluate their commitments and subscriptions in a world that often feels relentless and chaotic.
Julio emphasized the importance of creating sacred spaces for reflection and the need to step back from our busy lives to assess what truly matters. He discussed the three levels of subscriptions we engage with: digital, social, and the deeper beliefs we hold about success and fulfillment. By recognizing these subscriptions, we can begin to make intentional choices that align with our values and goals.
Throughout our conversation, we explored practical strategies for setting boundaries, saying no, and delegating tasks to create more space for meaningful work. Julio's perspective is particularly relevant for nonprofit leaders, who often find themselves caught in the hustle of doing more for their communities. He encouraged listeners to embrace feedback and to be mindful of how they show up in their organizations.
As we wrapped up, Julio reminded us to take the pressure off during the holiday season and to focus on relationships and community. His insights are a powerful reminder that we can create our own moments of celebration and connection, regardless of the time of year. I hope you enjoy this enlightening discussion as much as I did!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 10 Dec 2024 23:02:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Please Unsubscribe, Thanks! How to make your nonprofit more human</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Insights from Julio Gambuto's New Book"</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with filmmaker and author Julio Gambuto. Julio shared insights from his journey in the film and television industry, particularly focusing on the lessons learned during the pandemic. His new book, "Please Unsubscribe, Thanks," serves as a guide for individuals and organizations to reevaluate their commitments and subscriptions in a world that often feels relentless and chaotic.
Julio emphasized the importance of creating sacred spaces for reflection and the need to step back from our busy lives to assess what truly matters. He discussed the three levels of subscriptions we engage with: digital, social, and the deeper beliefs we hold about success and fulfillment. By recognizing these subscriptions, we can begin to make intentional choices that align with our values and goals.
Throughout our conversation, we explored practical strategies for setting boundaries, saying no, and delegating tasks to create more space for meaningful work. Julio's perspective is particularly relevant for nonprofit leaders, who often find themselves caught in the hustle of doing more for their communities. He encouraged listeners to embrace feedback and to be mindful of how they show up in their organizations.
As we wrapped up, Julio reminded us to take the pressure off during the holiday season and to focus on relationships and community. His insights are a powerful reminder that we can create our own moments of celebration and connection, regardless of the time of year. I hope you enjoy this enlightening discussion as much as I did!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with filmmaker and author Julio Gambuto. Julio shared insights from his journey in the film and television industry, particularly focusing on the lessons learned during the pandemic. His new book, "Please Unsubscribe, Thanks," serves as a guide for individuals and organizations to reevaluate their commitments and subscriptions in a world that often feels relentless and chaotic.</p><p>Julio emphasized the importance of creating sacred spaces for reflection and the need to step back from our busy lives to assess what truly matters. He discussed the three levels of subscriptions we engage with: digital, social, and the deeper beliefs we hold about success and fulfillment. By recognizing these subscriptions, we can begin to make intentional choices that align with our values and goals.</p><p>Throughout our conversation, we explored practical strategies for setting boundaries, saying no, and delegating tasks to create more space for meaningful work. Julio's perspective is particularly relevant for nonprofit leaders, who often find themselves caught in the hustle of doing more for their communities. He encouraged listeners to embrace feedback and to be mindful of how they show up in their organizations.</p><p>As we wrapped up, Julio reminded us to take the pressure off during the holiday season and to focus on relationships and community. His insights are a powerful reminder that we can create our own moments of celebration and connection, regardless of the time of year. I hope you enjoy this enlightening discussion as much as I did!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1647</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>From Classroom to Community: How PAVE is Shaping Future Philanthropists</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/12/03/npe-philanthropy-kids/</link>
      <description>In this special episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, have the pleasure of welcoming my dear friend Amit Banerjee, the CEO and president of Philanthropy Kids, a Dallas-based organization dedicated to inspiring and educating young people about philanthropy, volunteerism, and social entrepreneurship. Amit shares his journey and the importance of instilling philanthropic values in today’s youth, emphasizing that anyone can be a philanthropist, regardless of age or wealth.

Amit begins by outlining his background, which includes a diverse range of experiences from electrical engineering to working with various nonprofit organizations. He highlights how these experiences have shaped his commitment to community engagement and charitable activities. A pivotal moment in his life was participating in a program called PAVE (Philanthropy and Volunteerism in Education) during elementary school, which sparked his passion for philanthropy.

We delve into the PAVE program, which operates under the umbrella of Philanthropy Kids. Amit explains that PAVE partners with schools to transform traditional classrooms into environments where students learn about philanthropy, leadership, and social entrepreneurship instead of standard subjects like math or science. This innovative approach engages students in understanding their community's needs and how they can contribute to solving them.

Amit discusses the impact of the PAVE program, noting significant improvements in students' demonstrated philanthropic behavior, academic performance, and school attendance. He shares compelling statistics, such as an 8-12% increase in standardized test scores for students who are already passing and a staggering 30-50% increase for those who are failing. These results illustrate that learning about philanthropy not only makes students better individuals but also enhances their academic success.

Throughout our conversation, Amit emphasizes the importance of mentorship for young people, encouraging adults to support and guide the next generation. He believes that the innovative ideas and perspectives of youth can lead to meaningful solutions for societal challenges.

As we wrap up the episode, I encourage listeners to visit the Philanthropy Kids website at philanthropykids.org to learn more about their programs, get involved, and support their mission. Amit leaves us with a powerful message: "You don't have to be rich or old to be a philanthropist. You just have to care." This episode serves as a reminder of the vital role we all play in nurturing the philanthropic spirit in our youth and the positive impact it can have on our communities.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 03 Dec 2024 18:59:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>From Classroom to Community: How PAVE is Shaping Future Philanthropists</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Empowering Young Philanthropists</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this special episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, have the pleasure of welcoming my dear friend Amit Banerjee, the CEO and president of Philanthropy Kids, a Dallas-based organization dedicated to inspiring and educating young people about philanthropy, volunteerism, and social entrepreneurship. Amit shares his journey and the importance of instilling philanthropic values in today’s youth, emphasizing that anyone can be a philanthropist, regardless of age or wealth.

Amit begins by outlining his background, which includes a diverse range of experiences from electrical engineering to working with various nonprofit organizations. He highlights how these experiences have shaped his commitment to community engagement and charitable activities. A pivotal moment in his life was participating in a program called PAVE (Philanthropy and Volunteerism in Education) during elementary school, which sparked his passion for philanthropy.

We delve into the PAVE program, which operates under the umbrella of Philanthropy Kids. Amit explains that PAVE partners with schools to transform traditional classrooms into environments where students learn about philanthropy, leadership, and social entrepreneurship instead of standard subjects like math or science. This innovative approach engages students in understanding their community's needs and how they can contribute to solving them.

Amit discusses the impact of the PAVE program, noting significant improvements in students' demonstrated philanthropic behavior, academic performance, and school attendance. He shares compelling statistics, such as an 8-12% increase in standardized test scores for students who are already passing and a staggering 30-50% increase for those who are failing. These results illustrate that learning about philanthropy not only makes students better individuals but also enhances their academic success.

Throughout our conversation, Amit emphasizes the importance of mentorship for young people, encouraging adults to support and guide the next generation. He believes that the innovative ideas and perspectives of youth can lead to meaningful solutions for societal challenges.

As we wrap up the episode, I encourage listeners to visit the Philanthropy Kids website at philanthropykids.org to learn more about their programs, get involved, and support their mission. Amit leaves us with a powerful message: "You don't have to be rich or old to be a philanthropist. You just have to care." This episode serves as a reminder of the vital role we all play in nurturing the philanthropic spirit in our youth and the positive impact it can have on our communities.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this special episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, have the pleasure of welcoming my dear friend Amit Banerjee, the CEO and president of Philanthropy Kids, a Dallas-based organization dedicated to inspiring and educating young people about philanthropy, volunteerism, and social entrepreneurship. Amit shares his journey and the importance of instilling philanthropic values in today’s youth, emphasizing that anyone can be a philanthropist, regardless of age or wealth.</p><p><br></p><p>Amit begins by outlining his background, which includes a diverse range of experiences from electrical engineering to working with various nonprofit organizations. He highlights how these experiences have shaped his commitment to community engagement and charitable activities. A pivotal moment in his life was participating in a program called PAVE (Philanthropy and Volunteerism in Education) during elementary school, which sparked his passion for philanthropy.</p><p><br></p><p>We delve into the PAVE program, which operates under the umbrella of Philanthropy Kids. Amit explains that PAVE partners with schools to transform traditional classrooms into environments where students learn about philanthropy, leadership, and social entrepreneurship instead of standard subjects like math or science. This innovative approach engages students in understanding their community's needs and how they can contribute to solving them.</p><p><br></p><p>Amit discusses the impact of the PAVE program, noting significant improvements in students' demonstrated philanthropic behavior, academic performance, and school attendance. He shares compelling statistics, such as an 8-12% increase in standardized test scores for students who are already passing and a staggering 30-50% increase for those who are failing. These results illustrate that learning about philanthropy not only makes students better individuals but also enhances their academic success.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our conversation, Amit emphasizes the importance of mentorship for young people, encouraging adults to support and guide the next generation. He believes that the innovative ideas and perspectives of youth can lead to meaningful solutions for societal challenges.</p><p><br></p><p>As we wrap up the episode, I encourage listeners to visit the Philanthropy Kids website at philanthropykids.org to learn more about their programs, get involved, and support their mission. Amit leaves us with a powerful message: "You don't have to be rich or old to be a philanthropist. You just have to care." This episode serves as a reminder of the vital role we all play in nurturing the philanthropic spirit in our youth and the positive impact it can have on our communities.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1321</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[b32e9196-b1a8-11ef-b23d-0f89c30994b9]]></guid>
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    <item>
      <title>Philanthropy Understood: Bob Hopkins on the True Meaning of Giving</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/11/26/npe-philanthropy-understood/</link>
      <description>Philanthropy Understood

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of reconnecting with my dear friend Bob Hopkins, a renowned philanthropist and author, as we celebrated the release of his new book, Philanthropy Understood. This episode serves as a sequel to our previous discussions, reflecting on the evolution of philanthropy over the past nine years since we first began this journey together.

Bob shared his personal story, illustrating how his early experiences with his mother delivering groceries to those in need shaped his understanding of philanthropy. He emphasized that philanthropy is not merely about money; it is fundamentally about people and the love of mankind. His childhood memories of bringing joy to children in a trailer park left a lasting impression on him, igniting a lifelong commitment to doing good.

As we delved into his new book, Bob explained that it aims to redefine philanthropy by showcasing the stories of individuals who have made significant impacts in their communities. He highlighted that the proceeds from this book will benefit scholarships, reinforcing his belief that philanthropy is about giving back and uplifting others.

Throughout our conversation, Bob recounted various inspiring stories, including his encounter with a baby he found in the snow decades ago, who he later reconnected with after 30 years. He also shared his experiences in Mexico, where he witnessed the transformative power of community initiatives led by families dedicated to improving the lives of others.

We discussed the importance of legacy and how individuals can reflect on their lives and contributions. Bob encourages his students to think about their purpose and the impact they want to leave behind, emphasizing that it’s never too early to consider one’s legacy.

As we wrapped up the episode, Bob left us with a powerful message: to pay attention to the world around us and to seek opportunities to make a difference. He urged listeners to break free from the constraints that hold them back and to embrace the potential for change in their lives and communities.

This episode is not just a celebration of Bob's work but a call to action for all of us to engage in philanthropy in our own unique ways. I encourage everyone to look out for Philanthropy Understood, set to be released in January 2025, and to reflect on how we can contribute to the greater good in our everyday lives.

Watch the full episode at - https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/11/26/npe-philanthropy-understood/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 02 Dec 2024 17:48:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Philanthropy Understood: Bob Hopkins on the True Meaning of Giving</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>How Philanthropy Shapes Our Lives and Legacies</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Philanthropy Understood

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of reconnecting with my dear friend Bob Hopkins, a renowned philanthropist and author, as we celebrated the release of his new book, Philanthropy Understood. This episode serves as a sequel to our previous discussions, reflecting on the evolution of philanthropy over the past nine years since we first began this journey together.

Bob shared his personal story, illustrating how his early experiences with his mother delivering groceries to those in need shaped his understanding of philanthropy. He emphasized that philanthropy is not merely about money; it is fundamentally about people and the love of mankind. His childhood memories of bringing joy to children in a trailer park left a lasting impression on him, igniting a lifelong commitment to doing good.

As we delved into his new book, Bob explained that it aims to redefine philanthropy by showcasing the stories of individuals who have made significant impacts in their communities. He highlighted that the proceeds from this book will benefit scholarships, reinforcing his belief that philanthropy is about giving back and uplifting others.

Throughout our conversation, Bob recounted various inspiring stories, including his encounter with a baby he found in the snow decades ago, who he later reconnected with after 30 years. He also shared his experiences in Mexico, where he witnessed the transformative power of community initiatives led by families dedicated to improving the lives of others.

We discussed the importance of legacy and how individuals can reflect on their lives and contributions. Bob encourages his students to think about their purpose and the impact they want to leave behind, emphasizing that it’s never too early to consider one’s legacy.

As we wrapped up the episode, Bob left us with a powerful message: to pay attention to the world around us and to seek opportunities to make a difference. He urged listeners to break free from the constraints that hold them back and to embrace the potential for change in their lives and communities.

This episode is not just a celebration of Bob's work but a call to action for all of us to engage in philanthropy in our own unique ways. I encourage everyone to look out for Philanthropy Understood, set to be released in January 2025, and to reflect on how we can contribute to the greater good in our everyday lives.

Watch the full episode at - https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/11/26/npe-philanthropy-understood/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Philanthropy Understood</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of reconnecting with my dear friend Bob Hopkins, a renowned philanthropist and author, as we celebrated the release of his new book, Philanthropy Understood. This episode serves as a sequel to our previous discussions, reflecting on the evolution of philanthropy over the past nine years since we first began this journey together.</p><p><br></p><p>Bob shared his personal story, illustrating how his early experiences with his mother delivering groceries to those in need shaped his understanding of philanthropy. He emphasized that philanthropy is not merely about money; it is fundamentally about people and the love of mankind. His childhood memories of bringing joy to children in a trailer park left a lasting impression on him, igniting a lifelong commitment to doing good.</p><p><br></p><p>As we delved into his new book, Bob explained that it aims to redefine philanthropy by showcasing the stories of individuals who have made significant impacts in their communities. He highlighted that the proceeds from this book will benefit scholarships, reinforcing his belief that philanthropy is about giving back and uplifting others.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our conversation, Bob recounted various inspiring stories, including his encounter with a baby he found in the snow decades ago, who he later reconnected with after 30 years. He also shared his experiences in Mexico, where he witnessed the transformative power of community initiatives led by families dedicated to improving the lives of others.</p><p><br></p><p>We discussed the importance of legacy and how individuals can reflect on their lives and contributions. Bob encourages his students to think about their purpose and the impact they want to leave behind, emphasizing that it’s never too early to consider one’s legacy.</p><p><br></p><p>As we wrapped up the episode, Bob left us with a powerful message: to pay attention to the world around us and to seek opportunities to make a difference. He urged listeners to break free from the constraints that hold them back and to embrace the potential for change in their lives and communities.</p><p><br></p><p>This episode is not just a celebration of Bob's work but a call to action for all of us to engage in philanthropy in our own unique ways. I encourage everyone to look out for Philanthropy Understood, set to be released in January 2025, and to reflect on how we can contribute to the greater good in our everyday lives.</p><p><br></p><p>Watch the full episode at - <a href="https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/11/26/npe-philanthropy-understood/">https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/11/26/npe-philanthropy-understood/</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1609</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[a5f41d30-b0d5-11ef-adff-7b9631590392]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8473906777.mp3?updated=1733162014" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Breakthroughs! Life-changing Lessons from the Legends</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/11/19/npe-breakthroughs/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Brian Biro, known as America's Breakthrough Speaker. Brian shared his incredible journey, which spans three distinct careers, including his time as a United States swimming coach and a corporate vice president before he transitioned into professional speaking over 35 years ago. His passion lies in helping individuals and organizations break through barriers and reach their full potential.

We delved into the concept of breakthroughs, which Brian defines as the process of moving from fear to freedom, failure to faith, and good to great. He emphasized that breakthroughs are not just possible but can be planned by focusing on three key controllables: shaping your future, energizing and engaging yourself and your team, and building people, teams, and relationships.

Brian elaborated on the importance of vision, stating that we must see our desired future before we can achieve it. He shared a poignant story about his grandson, Augie, to illustrate how our focus determines our path—whether we fixate on obstacles or envision ways to navigate around them. He also highlighted the significance of using our vision to see what is possible rather than relying on past memories that may limit our perspective.

Energy plays a crucial role in human performance, and Brian discussed how we can elevate our energy through movement, purpose, and the conscious choice to engage positively with others. He shared personal anecdotes, including his relationship with his father, to illustrate how we can reclaim our energy by letting go of negative influences.

As we wrapped up our conversation, Brian introduced his books, including "Beyond Success" and "Lessons from the Legends," which draw on the wisdom of legendary coaches John Wooden and Pat Summitt. He emphasized that true success is rooted in character and the ability to build meaningful relationships.

In closing, Brian left us with a powerful challenge: to be fully present with those around us, reminding us that our job as leaders is to help others feel important and significant. He encouraged listeners to commit to being more present with two people in their lives for 30 days, fostering deeper connections and understanding.

This episode is packed with insights and practical advice for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to inspire and empower others. Brian's energy and passion for helping people break through their limitations are truly infectious, making this a must-listen for anyone seeking personal and professional growth.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Nov 2024 22:27:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Breakthroughs! Life-changing Lessons from the Legends</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leadership Self-Empowerment</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Brian Biro, known as America's Breakthrough Speaker. Brian shared his incredible journey, which spans three distinct careers, including his time as a United States swimming coach and a corporate vice president before he transitioned into professional speaking over 35 years ago. His passion lies in helping individuals and organizations break through barriers and reach their full potential.

We delved into the concept of breakthroughs, which Brian defines as the process of moving from fear to freedom, failure to faith, and good to great. He emphasized that breakthroughs are not just possible but can be planned by focusing on three key controllables: shaping your future, energizing and engaging yourself and your team, and building people, teams, and relationships.

Brian elaborated on the importance of vision, stating that we must see our desired future before we can achieve it. He shared a poignant story about his grandson, Augie, to illustrate how our focus determines our path—whether we fixate on obstacles or envision ways to navigate around them. He also highlighted the significance of using our vision to see what is possible rather than relying on past memories that may limit our perspective.

Energy plays a crucial role in human performance, and Brian discussed how we can elevate our energy through movement, purpose, and the conscious choice to engage positively with others. He shared personal anecdotes, including his relationship with his father, to illustrate how we can reclaim our energy by letting go of negative influences.

As we wrapped up our conversation, Brian introduced his books, including "Beyond Success" and "Lessons from the Legends," which draw on the wisdom of legendary coaches John Wooden and Pat Summitt. He emphasized that true success is rooted in character and the ability to build meaningful relationships.

In closing, Brian left us with a powerful challenge: to be fully present with those around us, reminding us that our job as leaders is to help others feel important and significant. He encouraged listeners to commit to being more present with two people in their lives for 30 days, fostering deeper connections and understanding.

This episode is packed with insights and practical advice for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to inspire and empower others. Brian's energy and passion for helping people break through their limitations are truly infectious, making this a must-listen for anyone seeking personal and professional growth.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Brian Biro, known as America's Breakthrough Speaker. Brian shared his incredible journey, which spans three distinct careers, including his time as a United States swimming coach and a corporate vice president before he transitioned into professional speaking over 35 years ago. His passion lies in helping individuals and organizations break through barriers and reach their full potential.</p><p><br></p><p>We delved into the concept of breakthroughs, which Brian defines as the process of moving from fear to freedom, failure to faith, and good to great. He emphasized that breakthroughs are not just possible but can be planned by focusing on three key controllables: shaping your future, energizing and engaging yourself and your team, and building people, teams, and relationships.</p><p><br></p><p>Brian elaborated on the importance of vision, stating that we must see our desired future before we can achieve it. He shared a poignant story about his grandson, Augie, to illustrate how our focus determines our path—whether we fixate on obstacles or envision ways to navigate around them. He also highlighted the significance of using our vision to see what is possible rather than relying on past memories that may limit our perspective.</p><p><br></p><p>Energy plays a crucial role in human performance, and Brian discussed how we can elevate our energy through movement, purpose, and the conscious choice to engage positively with others. He shared personal anecdotes, including his relationship with his father, to illustrate how we can reclaim our energy by letting go of negative influences.</p><p><br></p><p>As we wrapped up our conversation, Brian introduced his books, including "Beyond Success" and "Lessons from the Legends," which draw on the wisdom of legendary coaches John Wooden and Pat Summitt. He emphasized that true success is rooted in character and the ability to build meaningful relationships.</p><p><br></p><p>In closing, Brian left us with a powerful challenge: to be fully present with those around us, reminding us that our job as leaders is to help others feel important and significant. He encouraged listeners to commit to being more present with two people in their lives for 30 days, fostering deeper connections and understanding.</p><p><br></p><p>This episode is packed with insights and practical advice for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to inspire and empower others. Brian's energy and passion for helping people break through their limitations are truly infectious, making this a must-listen for anyone seeking personal and professional growth.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1690</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[78cfbd06-a6c5-11ef-9d82-2fdfaf9dd716]]></guid>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>I3 (cubed): Information, Interpretation, Intensity</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/11/12/npe-unlock-negative-emotions/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Greg Stewart, a multifaceted leader with a rich background in ministry, counseling, and organizational leadership. We delved into the concept of I3Q, which stands for Information, Interpretation, and Intensity, and how it relates to our inner strength and the management of negative emotions.

Dr. Stewart shared his journey from being called into ministry to becoming a licensed counselor and executive coach. He emphasized the importance of understanding our negative emotions and how they can serve as a source of energy for personal growth and transformation. His new book, "Unlocking the Inner Strength Behind Your Negative Emotions," is a culmination of his experiences and insights over the past decade, particularly following a personal crisis that led him to explore his own emotional landscape.

We discussed the critical need for leaders, especially in the nonprofit sector, to model emotional intelligence and transformational leadership. Dr. Stewart highlighted the balance between grace and truth in leadership, stressing that effective communication requires both empathy and accountability. He provided practical advice on how to navigate difficult conversations and the importance of self-reflection in understanding our emotional responses.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Stewart encouraged listeners to ask themselves, "What is being exposed in me?" when faced with negative emotions. This introspective approach can lead to healing, emotional resilience, and a deeper understanding of oneself.

Overall, this episode is a valuable resource for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their emotional intelligence and leadership skills. Dr. Stewart's insights remind us that our emotional challenges can be transformed into opportunities for growth and connection.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 12 Nov 2024 20:17:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>I3 (cubed): Information, Interpretation, Intensity</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Unlock the Inner Strength Behind Your Negative Emotions</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Greg Stewart, a multifaceted leader with a rich background in ministry, counseling, and organizational leadership. We delved into the concept of I3Q, which stands for Information, Interpretation, and Intensity, and how it relates to our inner strength and the management of negative emotions.

Dr. Stewart shared his journey from being called into ministry to becoming a licensed counselor and executive coach. He emphasized the importance of understanding our negative emotions and how they can serve as a source of energy for personal growth and transformation. His new book, "Unlocking the Inner Strength Behind Your Negative Emotions," is a culmination of his experiences and insights over the past decade, particularly following a personal crisis that led him to explore his own emotional landscape.

We discussed the critical need for leaders, especially in the nonprofit sector, to model emotional intelligence and transformational leadership. Dr. Stewart highlighted the balance between grace and truth in leadership, stressing that effective communication requires both empathy and accountability. He provided practical advice on how to navigate difficult conversations and the importance of self-reflection in understanding our emotional responses.

As we wrapped up, Dr. Stewart encouraged listeners to ask themselves, "What is being exposed in me?" when faced with negative emotions. This introspective approach can lead to healing, emotional resilience, and a deeper understanding of oneself.

Overall, this episode is a valuable resource for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their emotional intelligence and leadership skills. Dr. Stewart's insights remind us that our emotional challenges can be transformed into opportunities for growth and connection.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Greg Stewart, a multifaceted leader with a rich background in ministry, counseling, and organizational leadership. We delved into the concept of I3Q, which stands for Information, Interpretation, and Intensity, and how it relates to our inner strength and the management of negative emotions.</p><p><br></p><p>Dr. Stewart shared his journey from being called into ministry to becoming a licensed counselor and executive coach. He emphasized the importance of understanding our negative emotions and how they can serve as a source of energy for personal growth and transformation. His new book, "Unlocking the Inner Strength Behind Your Negative Emotions," is a culmination of his experiences and insights over the past decade, particularly following a personal crisis that led him to explore his own emotional landscape.</p><p><br></p><p>We discussed the critical need for leaders, especially in the nonprofit sector, to model emotional intelligence and transformational leadership. Dr. Stewart highlighted the balance between grace and truth in leadership, stressing that effective communication requires both empathy and accountability. He provided practical advice on how to navigate difficult conversations and the importance of self-reflection in understanding our emotional responses.</p><p><br></p><p>As we wrapped up, Dr. Stewart encouraged listeners to ask themselves, "What is being exposed in me?" when faced with negative emotions. This introspective approach can lead to healing, emotional resilience, and a deeper understanding of oneself.</p><p><br></p><p>Overall, this episode is a valuable resource for nonprofit leaders and anyone looking to enhance their emotional intelligence and leadership skills. Dr. Stewart's insights remind us that our emotional challenges can be transformed into opportunities for growth and connection.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1673</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[387d5a66-a133-11ef-99ec-ab55f4e8dccb]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7723986726.mp3?updated=1731442985" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>From Ordinary to Extra Ordinary. Oh yes you can!</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/11/05/npe-ordinary-to-extra-ordinary/</link>
      <description>From Ordinary to Extra Ordinary. Oh yes you can!

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Pattie Dale Tye, a remarkable individual who has transitioned from a successful corporate career to becoming an author and mentor. We explored the theme of her book, "From Ordinary to Extraordinary," which emphasizes how anyone can achieve remarkable success through passion, purpose, and preparation.

Pattie shared her inspiring journey, starting from her humble beginnings in a small town in North Florida to holding significant leadership roles in major corporations like AT&amp;T and Humana. She discussed the importance of gratitude and giving back, dedicating her book to her parents and husband, who have been instrumental in her life.

We delved into the challenges leaders face today and the necessity of reconnecting with our core values and principles. Patty highlighted the significance of self-discovery, encouraging listeners to identify their unique strengths and passions. She also emphasized the importance of mentoring others and lifting them as we climb the ladder of success.

Throughout our conversation, Patty provided valuable insights on embracing discomfort, understanding our potential, and the importance of continuous growth. She reminded us that career journeys are marathons, not sprints, and that we should be patient and persistent in our pursuits.

As we wrapped up, Pattie encouraged everyone to believe in themselves and not to be discouraged by the curated images often seen on social media. Her message was clear: if she can achieve extraordinary success, so can anyone else.

Join us for this enlightening discussion that is sure to inspire and motivate you on your own journey from ordinary to extraordinary!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Nov 2024 22:18:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>From Ordinary to Extra Ordinary. Oh yes you can!</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle></itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>From Ordinary to Extra Ordinary. Oh yes you can!

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Pattie Dale Tye, a remarkable individual who has transitioned from a successful corporate career to becoming an author and mentor. We explored the theme of her book, "From Ordinary to Extraordinary," which emphasizes how anyone can achieve remarkable success through passion, purpose, and preparation.

Pattie shared her inspiring journey, starting from her humble beginnings in a small town in North Florida to holding significant leadership roles in major corporations like AT&amp;T and Humana. She discussed the importance of gratitude and giving back, dedicating her book to her parents and husband, who have been instrumental in her life.

We delved into the challenges leaders face today and the necessity of reconnecting with our core values and principles. Patty highlighted the significance of self-discovery, encouraging listeners to identify their unique strengths and passions. She also emphasized the importance of mentoring others and lifting them as we climb the ladder of success.

Throughout our conversation, Patty provided valuable insights on embracing discomfort, understanding our potential, and the importance of continuous growth. She reminded us that career journeys are marathons, not sprints, and that we should be patient and persistent in our pursuits.

As we wrapped up, Pattie encouraged everyone to believe in themselves and not to be discouraged by the curated images often seen on social media. Her message was clear: if she can achieve extraordinary success, so can anyone else.

Join us for this enlightening discussion that is sure to inspire and motivate you on your own journey from ordinary to extraordinary!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>From Ordinary to Extra Ordinary. Oh yes you can!</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Pattie Dale Tye, a remarkable individual who has transitioned from a successful corporate career to becoming an author and mentor. We explored the theme of her book, "From Ordinary to Extraordinary," which emphasizes how anyone can achieve remarkable success through passion, purpose, and preparation.</p><p><br></p><p>Pattie shared her inspiring journey, starting from her humble beginnings in a small town in North Florida to holding significant leadership roles in major corporations like AT&amp;T and Humana. She discussed the importance of gratitude and giving back, dedicating her book to her parents and husband, who have been instrumental in her life.</p><p><br></p><p>We delved into the challenges leaders face today and the necessity of reconnecting with our core values and principles. Patty highlighted the significance of self-discovery, encouraging listeners to identify their unique strengths and passions. She also emphasized the importance of mentoring others and lifting them as we climb the ladder of success.</p><p><br></p><p>Throughout our conversation, Patty provided valuable insights on embracing discomfort, understanding our potential, and the importance of continuous growth. She reminded us that career journeys are marathons, not sprints, and that we should be patient and persistent in our pursuits.</p><p><br></p><p>As we wrapped up, Pattie encouraged everyone to believe in themselves and not to be discouraged by the curated images often seen on social media. Her message was clear: if she can achieve extraordinary success, so can anyone else.</p><p><br></p><p>Join us for this enlightening discussion that is sure to inspire and motivate you on your own journey from ordinary to extraordinary!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1603</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2602809a-9bc1-11ef-89c1-3f4b79741eda]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9632895816.mp3?updated=1730845513" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Impactful Leadership</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/10/29/npe-impactful-leadership/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, episode 415, I had the pleasure of speaking with Rupal Patel, a former CIA officer turned entrepreneur and leadership consultant. Rupal shared her journey from the high-stakes world of intelligence to becoming a CEO and founder of multiple organizations. Her book, "CIA to CEO," encapsulates the unconventional life lessons she learned along the way, emphasizing the importance of impactful leadership and mastering the mental aspects of high performance.

Rupal discussed the evolving nature of leadership, highlighting that it is no longer confined to a hierarchical, dictatorial model. Instead, she advocates for a more inclusive approach where leaders can come from various backgrounds and possess diverse traits. She emphasized the significance of humility, self-awareness, and the ability to ask for help, noting that effective leaders do not need to have all the answers.

We explored the concept of building an "ops team"—a curated group of peers and mentors who provide support and feedback in various aspects of life, from business to personal challenges. Rupal also shared her insights on the impact of leadership on organizations, stressing the importance of creating positive work environments and fostering employee well-being.
As we wrapped up the conversation, Rupal encouraged listeners to take actionable steps toward making a difference, no matter how small. She reminded us that while the challenges we face may seem overwhelming, we can all contribute to positive change in our communities.
For more insights and to connect with Rupal, visit her website at entrepreneurora.co. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening episode of The Nonprofit Exchange!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Oct 2024 21:15:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Mastering the "head game" of High Performance: from CIA to CEO</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Anything is possible</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, episode 415, I had the pleasure of speaking with Rupal Patel, a former CIA officer turned entrepreneur and leadership consultant. Rupal shared her journey from the high-stakes world of intelligence to becoming a CEO and founder of multiple organizations. Her book, "CIA to CEO," encapsulates the unconventional life lessons she learned along the way, emphasizing the importance of impactful leadership and mastering the mental aspects of high performance.

Rupal discussed the evolving nature of leadership, highlighting that it is no longer confined to a hierarchical, dictatorial model. Instead, she advocates for a more inclusive approach where leaders can come from various backgrounds and possess diverse traits. She emphasized the significance of humility, self-awareness, and the ability to ask for help, noting that effective leaders do not need to have all the answers.

We explored the concept of building an "ops team"—a curated group of peers and mentors who provide support and feedback in various aspects of life, from business to personal challenges. Rupal also shared her insights on the impact of leadership on organizations, stressing the importance of creating positive work environments and fostering employee well-being.
As we wrapped up the conversation, Rupal encouraged listeners to take actionable steps toward making a difference, no matter how small. She reminded us that while the challenges we face may seem overwhelming, we can all contribute to positive change in our communities.
For more insights and to connect with Rupal, visit her website at entrepreneurora.co. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening episode of The Nonprofit Exchange!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, episode 415, I had the pleasure of speaking with Rupal Patel, a former CIA officer turned entrepreneur and leadership consultant. Rupal shared her journey from the high-stakes world of intelligence to becoming a CEO and founder of multiple organizations. Her book, "CIA to CEO," encapsulates the unconventional life lessons she learned along the way, emphasizing the importance of impactful leadership and mastering the mental aspects of high performance.</p><p><br></p><p>Rupal discussed the evolving nature of leadership, highlighting that it is no longer confined to a hierarchical, dictatorial model. Instead, she advocates for a more inclusive approach where leaders can come from various backgrounds and possess diverse traits. She emphasized the significance of humility, self-awareness, and the ability to ask for help, noting that effective leaders do not need to have all the answers.</p><p><br></p><p>We explored the concept of building an "ops team"—a curated group of peers and mentors who provide support and feedback in various aspects of life, from business to personal challenges. Rupal also shared her insights on the impact of leadership on organizations, stressing the importance of creating positive work environments and fostering employee well-being.</p><p>As we wrapped up the conversation, Rupal encouraged listeners to take actionable steps toward making a difference, no matter how small. She reminded us that while the challenges we face may seem overwhelming, we can all contribute to positive change in our communities.</p><p>For more insights and to connect with Rupal, visit her website at entrepreneurora.co. Thank you for joining us on this enlightening episode of The Nonprofit Exchange!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1588</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[dd10aa50-963a-11ef-8308-0b3391cad5bd]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9307350752.mp3?updated=1730236805" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Fostering Connection: Lead with Bempathy® in a Diverse World</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/10/22/npe-fostering-connection/</link>
      <description>Fostering Connection: Lead with Bempathy® in a Diverse World

In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jill Robin Payne, a seasoned mental health professional with over 40 years of experience. Jill's expertise centers around fostering connection and leading with empathy in our increasingly diverse world.
We delved into her unique concept of "BEMPATHY," which she describes as "banter with empathy." Jill explained how this approach can simplify the complexities of building relationships, especially in a time when many feel disconnected and anxious. She emphasized the importance of understanding that empathy is a mindset and that effective communication requires us to listen actively and engage meaningfully with others.
Jill shared insights from her three books available on Amazon, including her latest work, which encourages readers to look at situations from multiple perspectives. We discussed the significance of language in communication, particularly the impact of words like "but," which can undermine positive interactions.
Throughout our conversation, Jill highlighted the transformative power of empathy and connection, not just in personal relationships but also in professional settings, including non-profits and leadership roles. She encouraged listeners to take a step back in challenging situations to gain clarity and perspective.
This episode is a treasure trove of practical advice for anyone looking to enhance their communication skills and foster deeper connections in both their personal and professional lives. I hope you find Jill's insights as inspiring and thought-provoking as I did!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Oct 2024 19:06:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Fostering Connection: Lead with Bempathy® in a Diverse World</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Connecting in New Ways</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Fostering Connection: Lead with Bempathy® in a Diverse World

In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jill Robin Payne, a seasoned mental health professional with over 40 years of experience. Jill's expertise centers around fostering connection and leading with empathy in our increasingly diverse world.
We delved into her unique concept of "BEMPATHY," which she describes as "banter with empathy." Jill explained how this approach can simplify the complexities of building relationships, especially in a time when many feel disconnected and anxious. She emphasized the importance of understanding that empathy is a mindset and that effective communication requires us to listen actively and engage meaningfully with others.
Jill shared insights from her three books available on Amazon, including her latest work, which encourages readers to look at situations from multiple perspectives. We discussed the significance of language in communication, particularly the impact of words like "but," which can undermine positive interactions.
Throughout our conversation, Jill highlighted the transformative power of empathy and connection, not just in personal relationships but also in professional settings, including non-profits and leadership roles. She encouraged listeners to take a step back in challenging situations to gain clarity and perspective.
This episode is a treasure trove of practical advice for anyone looking to enhance their communication skills and foster deeper connections in both their personal and professional lives. I hope you find Jill's insights as inspiring and thought-provoking as I did!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Fostering Connection: Lead with Bempathy® in a Diverse World</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>In this episode of The Non-Profit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jill Robin Payne, a seasoned mental health professional with over 40 years of experience. Jill's expertise centers around fostering connection and leading with empathy in our increasingly diverse world.</p><p>We delved into her unique concept of "BEMPATHY," which she describes as "banter with empathy." Jill explained how this approach can simplify the complexities of building relationships, especially in a time when many feel disconnected and anxious. She emphasized the importance of understanding that empathy is a mindset and that effective communication requires us to listen actively and engage meaningfully with others.</p><p>Jill shared insights from her three books available on Amazon, including her latest work, which encourages readers to look at situations from multiple perspectives. We discussed the significance of language in communication, particularly the impact of words like "but," which can undermine positive interactions.</p><p>Throughout our conversation, Jill highlighted the transformative power of empathy and connection, not just in personal relationships but also in professional settings, including non-profits and leadership roles. She encouraged listeners to take a step back in challenging situations to gain clarity and perspective.</p><p>This episode is a treasure trove of practical advice for anyone looking to enhance their communication skills and foster deeper connections in both their personal and professional lives. I hope you find Jill's insights as inspiring and thought-provoking as I did!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1573</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[cf478502-90a8-11ef-aad2-7b71696d0955]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7086052562.mp3?updated=1729624319" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What is Project Management and How Will It Improve Nonprofit’s Effectiveness?</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/10/15/npe-project-management/</link>
      <description>What is Project Management and How Will It Improve Nonprofit’s Effectiveness?

Having a Project Management Professional (PMP) Certification can do many things for leaders of nonprofits. It not only makes you a more efficient employee, it's going to open up a lot of opportunities. Project management is a growing career industry, particularly in the nonprofit sector, and having a PMP certification shows organizations that you're capable of effectively managing projects, budgets, and time.

Tamara McLemore, PMP is the founder of Tamara McLemore Enterprises, an executive consultant, a certified Project Management Professional (PMP) Instructor, and a sought-after award-winning speaker. Her expertise lies in coaching mid-career professional women, empowering them with the necessary skills, confidence, and language to obtain their PMP Certification and secure significant career advancements. Through her PMP Exam 2-Week Intensive where she has successfully shortened the traditional preparation timeline, enabling candidates to pass their PMP exam within 30 days (a process that typically takes 6-8 months). This accelerated timeline not only aims to achieve certification but also to position women in the careers they truly deserve. With a wealth of experience spanning over 25 years in various industries including technology, federal government, and aviation, Tamara has risen from being a project manager to now serving as the chief impact officer (CIO) of her own company. Tamara's expertise has been recognized through her appearances as a guest on the Women Of Project Management® and the Harvard Business Review, Women at Work podcasts, and has been a keynote speaker at prestigious events such as the Women of Project Management Conference, AE Ignite conference, and the Wonder Women Tech summit. She is also a LinkedIn Top Voice In Project Management. Additionally, she has shared her knowledge by teaching project management at universities and organizations worldwide, including appearances in India and Dubai. Outside of her professional endeavors, Tamara enjoys traveling extensively and lives by the motto: "To be a Service to All Mankind."

More about Tamara at - https://iwantmypmp.com/ 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 15 Oct 2024 19:52:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>What is Project Management and How Will It Improve Nonprofit’s Effectiveness?</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Project Management with Tamara McLemore</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>What is Project Management and How Will It Improve Nonprofit’s Effectiveness?

Having a Project Management Professional (PMP) Certification can do many things for leaders of nonprofits. It not only makes you a more efficient employee, it's going to open up a lot of opportunities. Project management is a growing career industry, particularly in the nonprofit sector, and having a PMP certification shows organizations that you're capable of effectively managing projects, budgets, and time.

Tamara McLemore, PMP is the founder of Tamara McLemore Enterprises, an executive consultant, a certified Project Management Professional (PMP) Instructor, and a sought-after award-winning speaker. Her expertise lies in coaching mid-career professional women, empowering them with the necessary skills, confidence, and language to obtain their PMP Certification and secure significant career advancements. Through her PMP Exam 2-Week Intensive where she has successfully shortened the traditional preparation timeline, enabling candidates to pass their PMP exam within 30 days (a process that typically takes 6-8 months). This accelerated timeline not only aims to achieve certification but also to position women in the careers they truly deserve. With a wealth of experience spanning over 25 years in various industries including technology, federal government, and aviation, Tamara has risen from being a project manager to now serving as the chief impact officer (CIO) of her own company. Tamara's expertise has been recognized through her appearances as a guest on the Women Of Project Management® and the Harvard Business Review, Women at Work podcasts, and has been a keynote speaker at prestigious events such as the Women of Project Management Conference, AE Ignite conference, and the Wonder Women Tech summit. She is also a LinkedIn Top Voice In Project Management. Additionally, she has shared her knowledge by teaching project management at universities and organizations worldwide, including appearances in India and Dubai. Outside of her professional endeavors, Tamara enjoys traveling extensively and lives by the motto: "To be a Service to All Mankind."

More about Tamara at - https://iwantmypmp.com/ 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>What is Project Management and How Will It Improve Nonprofit’s Effectiveness?</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>Having a Project Management Professional (PMP) Certification can do many things for leaders of nonprofits. It not only makes you a more efficient employee, it's going to open up a lot of opportunities. Project management is a growing career industry, particularly in the nonprofit sector, and having a PMP certification shows organizations that you're capable of effectively managing projects, budgets, and time.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Tamara McLemore,</strong> PMP is the founder of Tamara McLemore Enterprises, an executive consultant, a certified Project Management Professional (PMP) Instructor, and a sought-after award-winning speaker. Her expertise lies in coaching mid-career professional women, empowering them with the necessary skills, confidence, and language to obtain their PMP Certification and secure significant career advancements. Through her PMP Exam 2-Week Intensive where she has successfully shortened the traditional preparation timeline, enabling candidates to pass their PMP exam within 30 days (a process that typically takes 6-8 months). This accelerated timeline not only aims to achieve certification but also to position women in the careers they truly deserve. With a wealth of experience spanning over 25 years in various industries including technology, federal government, and aviation, Tamara has risen from being a project manager to now serving as the chief impact officer (CIO) of her own company. Tamara's expertise has been recognized through her appearances as a guest on the Women Of Project Management® and the Harvard Business Review, Women at Work podcasts, and has been a keynote speaker at prestigious events such as the Women of Project Management Conference, AE Ignite conference, and the Wonder Women Tech summit. She is also a LinkedIn Top Voice In Project Management. Additionally, she has shared her knowledge by teaching project management at universities and organizations worldwide, including appearances in India and Dubai. Outside of her professional endeavors, Tamara enjoys traveling extensively and lives by the motto: "To be a Service to All Mankind."</p><p><br></p><p>More about Tamara at - <a href="https://iwantmypmp.com/">https://iwantmypmp.com/</a> </p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1516</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f305418e-8b2e-11ef-af8a-df3e63d2ebba]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6766744741.mp3?updated=1729022224" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Breaking Barriers: Empowering the Next Generation of Leaders</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/10/09/npe-breaking-barriers/</link>
      <description>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with two inspiring leaders, Christine Sakdalan and Miguel Valentin, who are making significant strides in addressing inequities in the workforce through their nonprofit organization, Momentum and Value for People of Color (MVP).

Christine, a pharmaceutical executive with over 25 years of experience in the healthcare and life sciences industry, shared her journey of recognizing the biases and discrimination that exist in the professional world. This awareness, coupled with her passion for mentorship, led her to co-found MVP in 2020. The organization aims to empower young people of color by providing them with practical advice, coaching, and opportunities to thrive in their early careers. Christine emphasized the importance of paying it forward and leaving a legacy, which is a core value of MVP.

Miguel, the executive director of MVP, brought his extensive nonprofit experience to the conversation. He discussed his personal connection to the mission of MVP, highlighting the challenges faced by young people of color in navigating the workforce. Miguel shared how MVP provides essential resources such as workshops, coaching, and internship opportunities to help these individuals build their networks and gain the skills necessary for success. 
Throughout our discussion, we explored the transformative impact of mentorship and the importance of representation in leadership roles. Christine recounted a poignant moment when a young Filipino student expressed how inspiring it was to see someone in a leadership position who looked like him. This representation is crucial for young people who may not see themselves in higher-level positions within organizations.

We also delved into the barriers that young people often impose on themselves, particularly in areas like public speaking. Miguel shared insights on how MVP helps students overcome these fears by providing them with the tools and opportunities to practice and improve their communication skills.

As the conversation progressed, we discussed the challenges nonprofits face in securing funding and the importance of investing in talented leaders who can drive organizational growth. Christine encouraged nonprofit leaders to take risks and invest in people who can elevate their missions, while Miguel urged listeners to expand their networks and seek diverse perspectives.

In closing, both Christine and Miguel left us with powerful messages about the importance of empathy, curiosity, and the willingness to step outside of our comfort zones to create a more inclusive and equitable world. This episode is a testament to the incredible work being done by MVP and the profound impact that mentorship and community support can have on the lives of young people.

For more information about MVP and how you can get involved, visit their website at https://mvpoc.org/about/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2024 23:29:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Breaking Barriers: Empowering the Next Generation of Leaders</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Investing in Leaders: The Ripple Effect of Mentorship and Community Support</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with two inspiring leaders, Christine Sakdalan and Miguel Valentin, who are making significant strides in addressing inequities in the workforce through their nonprofit organization, Momentum and Value for People of Color (MVP).

Christine, a pharmaceutical executive with over 25 years of experience in the healthcare and life sciences industry, shared her journey of recognizing the biases and discrimination that exist in the professional world. This awareness, coupled with her passion for mentorship, led her to co-found MVP in 2020. The organization aims to empower young people of color by providing them with practical advice, coaching, and opportunities to thrive in their early careers. Christine emphasized the importance of paying it forward and leaving a legacy, which is a core value of MVP.

Miguel, the executive director of MVP, brought his extensive nonprofit experience to the conversation. He discussed his personal connection to the mission of MVP, highlighting the challenges faced by young people of color in navigating the workforce. Miguel shared how MVP provides essential resources such as workshops, coaching, and internship opportunities to help these individuals build their networks and gain the skills necessary for success. 
Throughout our discussion, we explored the transformative impact of mentorship and the importance of representation in leadership roles. Christine recounted a poignant moment when a young Filipino student expressed how inspiring it was to see someone in a leadership position who looked like him. This representation is crucial for young people who may not see themselves in higher-level positions within organizations.

We also delved into the barriers that young people often impose on themselves, particularly in areas like public speaking. Miguel shared insights on how MVP helps students overcome these fears by providing them with the tools and opportunities to practice and improve their communication skills.

As the conversation progressed, we discussed the challenges nonprofits face in securing funding and the importance of investing in talented leaders who can drive organizational growth. Christine encouraged nonprofit leaders to take risks and invest in people who can elevate their missions, while Miguel urged listeners to expand their networks and seek diverse perspectives.

In closing, both Christine and Miguel left us with powerful messages about the importance of empathy, curiosity, and the willingness to step outside of our comfort zones to create a more inclusive and equitable world. This episode is a testament to the incredible work being done by MVP and the profound impact that mentorship and community support can have on the lives of young people.

For more information about MVP and how you can get involved, visit their website at https://mvpoc.org/about/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I had the pleasure of speaking with two inspiring leaders, Christine Sakdalan and Miguel Valentin, who are making significant strides in addressing inequities in the workforce through their nonprofit organization, Momentum and Value for People of Color (MVP).</p><p><br></p><p>Christine, a pharmaceutical executive with over 25 years of experience in the healthcare and life sciences industry, shared her journey of recognizing the biases and discrimination that exist in the professional world. This awareness, coupled with her passion for mentorship, led her to co-found MVP in 2020. The organization aims to empower young people of color by providing them with practical advice, coaching, and opportunities to thrive in their early careers. Christine emphasized the importance of paying it forward and leaving a legacy, which is a core value of MVP.</p><p><br></p><p>Miguel, the executive director of MVP, brought his extensive nonprofit experience to the conversation. He discussed his personal connection to the mission of MVP, highlighting the challenges faced by young people of color in navigating the workforce. Miguel shared how MVP provides essential resources such as workshops, coaching, and internship opportunities to help these individuals build their networks and gain the skills necessary for success. </p><p>Throughout our discussion, we explored the transformative impact of mentorship and the importance of representation in leadership roles. Christine recounted a poignant moment when a young Filipino student expressed how inspiring it was to see someone in a leadership position who looked like him. This representation is crucial for young people who may not see themselves in higher-level positions within organizations.</p><p><br></p><p>We also delved into the barriers that young people often impose on themselves, particularly in areas like public speaking. Miguel shared insights on how MVP helps students overcome these fears by providing them with the tools and opportunities to practice and improve their communication skills.</p><p><br></p><p>As the conversation progressed, we discussed the challenges nonprofits face in securing funding and the importance of investing in talented leaders who can drive organizational growth. Christine encouraged nonprofit leaders to take risks and invest in people who can elevate their missions, while Miguel urged listeners to expand their networks and seek diverse perspectives.</p><p><br></p><p>In closing, both Christine and Miguel left us with powerful messages about the importance of empathy, curiosity, and the willingness to step outside of our comfort zones to create a more inclusive and equitable world. This episode is a testament to the incredible work being done by MVP and the profound impact that mentorship and community support can have on the lives of young people.</p><p><br></p><p>For more information about MVP and how you can get involved, visit their website at <a href="https://mvpoc.org/about/">https://mvpoc.org/about/</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1977</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[5f95316c-8696-11ef-ac3e-0f586dcb58b2]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4183791944.mp3?updated=1728516889" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Mastering LinkedIn for Sales and Sponsorship</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/10/01/npe-linkedin-sponsorship/</link>
      <description>Mastering LinkedIn for Sales and Sponsorship

Brynne Tillman is the CEO of Social Sales Link and The Modern Banker.
She teaches professionals how to leverage LinkedIn to start trust-based conversation without being salesy. Brynne’s authentic approach to social selling has led her to receive a LinkedIn Top Voice in multiple categories.

She is a best-selling Author of the LinkedIn Sales Playbook and is most proud of the sales results she and her team have enabled their clients to achieve.
Get to hello faster. This program is about starting the conversation and getting your ideal buyers excited to take your call... but you have to earn the right to make that happen! In this 25-minute session, Brynne Tillman, CEO of Social Sales Link and the LinkedIn Whisperer, will take you through the journey of positioning yourself as the subject matter expert and thought leader who consistently attracts the right people. We will cover: 1. The social selling mindset that proves to your buyers that they matter to you 2. Positioning your profile to be value-centric, not just a resume or, worse yet, a pitch deck 3. Finding and engaging targeted connections that you have been ignoring 4. Leveraging your clients to get referrals 5. Exactly what to do and say to get raised hands and appointments set

https://socialsaleslink.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Oct 2024 01:27:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Mastering LinkedIn for Sales and Sponsorship</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Using Relationships on LinkedIn for Generating Nonprofit Income</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Mastering LinkedIn for Sales and Sponsorship

Brynne Tillman is the CEO of Social Sales Link and The Modern Banker.
She teaches professionals how to leverage LinkedIn to start trust-based conversation without being salesy. Brynne’s authentic approach to social selling has led her to receive a LinkedIn Top Voice in multiple categories.

She is a best-selling Author of the LinkedIn Sales Playbook and is most proud of the sales results she and her team have enabled their clients to achieve.
Get to hello faster. This program is about starting the conversation and getting your ideal buyers excited to take your call... but you have to earn the right to make that happen! In this 25-minute session, Brynne Tillman, CEO of Social Sales Link and the LinkedIn Whisperer, will take you through the journey of positioning yourself as the subject matter expert and thought leader who consistently attracts the right people. We will cover: 1. The social selling mindset that proves to your buyers that they matter to you 2. Positioning your profile to be value-centric, not just a resume or, worse yet, a pitch deck 3. Finding and engaging targeted connections that you have been ignoring 4. Leveraging your clients to get referrals 5. Exactly what to do and say to get raised hands and appointments set

https://socialsaleslink.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Mastering LinkedIn for Sales and Sponsorship</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>Brynne Tillman is the CEO of Social Sales Link and The Modern Banker.</p><p>She teaches professionals how to leverage LinkedIn to start trust-based conversation without being salesy. Brynne’s authentic approach to social selling has led her to receive a LinkedIn Top Voice in multiple categories.</p><p><br></p><p>She is a best-selling Author of the LinkedIn Sales Playbook and is most proud of the sales results she and her team have enabled their clients to achieve.</p><p>Get to hello faster. This program is about starting the conversation and getting your ideal buyers excited to take your call... but you have to earn the right to make that happen! In this 25-minute session, Brynne Tillman, CEO of Social Sales Link and the LinkedIn Whisperer, will take you through the journey of positioning yourself as the subject matter expert and thought leader who consistently attracts the right people. We will cover: 1. The social selling mindset that proves to your buyers that they matter to you 2. Positioning your profile to be value-centric, not just a resume or, worse yet, a pitch deck 3. Finding and engaging targeted connections that you have been ignoring 4. Leveraging your clients to get referrals 5. Exactly what to do and say to get raised hands and appointments set</p><p><br></p><p><a href="https://socialsaleslink.com">https://socialsaleslink.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1716</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[7588b726-805d-11ef-b3ae-eb9101034bdb]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5691971343.mp3?updated=1727832737" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Unleashing Your Leadership Potential</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/09/23/npe-leadership-potential-2/</link>
      <description>Unleashing Your Leadership Potential 

Lynell Green is a highly accomplished strategic management consultant and executive coach, renowned for her expertise in unleashing leadership potential and fostering strategic growth. With over 40 years of experience, Lynell has successfully worked with an impressive roster of clients, including industry leaders at Meta, Netflix, X, Microsoft, and Hilton. Her unique combination of skills, including accounting, corporate management, and teaching leadership programs, allows her to provide invaluable insights and guidance to her clients. Lynell's ability to understand complex business strategies, navigate organizational dynamics, and develop effective leaders has consistently resulted in transformative outcomes for her clients. Through her coaching, Lynell empowers leaders to inspire and unleash the leadership potential around them, creating a ripple effect of growth and success throughout their organizations.

More at https://www.lynellsplace.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 23 Sep 2024 21:48:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Unleashing Your Leadership Potential </itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Wisdom from Leadership Coach Lynell Green</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Unleashing Your Leadership Potential 

Lynell Green is a highly accomplished strategic management consultant and executive coach, renowned for her expertise in unleashing leadership potential and fostering strategic growth. With over 40 years of experience, Lynell has successfully worked with an impressive roster of clients, including industry leaders at Meta, Netflix, X, Microsoft, and Hilton. Her unique combination of skills, including accounting, corporate management, and teaching leadership programs, allows her to provide invaluable insights and guidance to her clients. Lynell's ability to understand complex business strategies, navigate organizational dynamics, and develop effective leaders has consistently resulted in transformative outcomes for her clients. Through her coaching, Lynell empowers leaders to inspire and unleash the leadership potential around them, creating a ripple effect of growth and success throughout their organizations.

More at https://www.lynellsplace.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Unleashing Your Leadership Potential </strong></h1><p><br></p><p><strong>Lynell Green</strong> is a highly accomplished strategic management consultant and executive coach, renowned for her expertise in unleashing leadership potential and fostering strategic growth. With over 40 years of experience, Lynell has successfully worked with an impressive roster of clients, including industry leaders at Meta, Netflix, X, Microsoft, and Hilton. Her unique combination of skills, including accounting, corporate management, and teaching leadership programs, allows her to provide invaluable insights and guidance to her clients. Lynell's ability to understand complex business strategies, navigate organizational dynamics, and develop effective leaders has consistently resulted in transformative outcomes for her clients. Through her coaching, Lynell empowers leaders to inspire and unleash the leadership potential around them, creating a ripple effect of growth and success throughout their organizations.</p><p><br></p><p>More at <a href="https://www.lynellsplace.com">https://www.lynellsplace.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1579</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[8fe1d526-79f5-11ef-9f0d-233521c9a543]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9231211800.mp3?updated=1727128406" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Deep Dives into Good Books</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/09/17/npe-good-books/</link>
      <description>Deep Dives into Good Books - Reading books definitely still matters!

For 26 years +, Randy has presented synopses of business books at the First Friday Book Synopsis in Dallas. In addition to his presentations at his public event, he presents extended versions of these synopses to leadership teams and groups within companies and organizations, in multiple arenas, including leadership teams in city governments. And for 20+ years, Randy has presented books on issues of social justice at the Urban Engagement Book Club, based in Dallas. Randy graduated from Abilene Christian University, where he lettered four years in Tennis; and then earned a Masters Degree from Pepperdine University, and completed classwork for a PhD from the University of Southern California, in Rhetoric and Public Address. (Yes, he is in the ranks of the infamous ABDs – all but dissertation).

The best way to grasp the complexity of issues is to read the best books by substantive authors on the subject. I have presented synopses son books by Pulitzer Prize-winning authors and renowned journalists, giving me a breadth of understanding regarding the issues of poverty, homelessness, and issues of racial justice.


More at https://www.15minutebusinessbooks.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Sep 2024 20:39:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Deep Dives into Good Books</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Reading books definitely still matters!</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Deep Dives into Good Books - Reading books definitely still matters!

For 26 years +, Randy has presented synopses of business books at the First Friday Book Synopsis in Dallas. In addition to his presentations at his public event, he presents extended versions of these synopses to leadership teams and groups within companies and organizations, in multiple arenas, including leadership teams in city governments. And for 20+ years, Randy has presented books on issues of social justice at the Urban Engagement Book Club, based in Dallas. Randy graduated from Abilene Christian University, where he lettered four years in Tennis; and then earned a Masters Degree from Pepperdine University, and completed classwork for a PhD from the University of Southern California, in Rhetoric and Public Address. (Yes, he is in the ranks of the infamous ABDs – all but dissertation).

The best way to grasp the complexity of issues is to read the best books by substantive authors on the subject. I have presented synopses son books by Pulitzer Prize-winning authors and renowned journalists, giving me a breadth of understanding regarding the issues of poverty, homelessness, and issues of racial justice.


More at https://www.15minutebusinessbooks.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Deep Dives into Good Books - Reading books definitely still matters!</strong></p><p><br></p><p>For 26 years +, Randy has presented synopses of business books at the First Friday Book Synopsis in Dallas. In addition to his presentations at his public event, he presents extended versions of these synopses to leadership teams and groups within companies and organizations, in multiple arenas, including leadership teams in city governments. And for 20+ years, Randy has presented books on issues of social justice at the Urban Engagement Book Club, based in Dallas. Randy graduated from Abilene Christian University, where he lettered four years in Tennis; and then earned a Masters Degree from Pepperdine University, and completed classwork for a PhD from the University of Southern California, in Rhetoric and Public Address. (Yes, he is in the ranks of the infamous ABDs – all but dissertation).</p><p><br></p><p>The best way to grasp the complexity of issues is to read the best books by substantive authors on the subject. I have presented synopses son books by Pulitzer Prize-winning authors and renowned journalists, giving me a breadth of understanding regarding the issues of poverty, homelessness, and issues of racial justice.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>More at <a href="https://www.15minutebusinessbooks.com">https://www.15minutebusinessbooks.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1593</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to Become  a Grant-Ready Nonprofit</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/09/10/npe-grant-ready-nonprofit/</link>
      <description>How to Become  a Grant-Ready Nonprofit

Many nonprofits want to receive grants to support their work, but are not successful in receive the grant awards. Dr. Toni Rockis shares her process for getting more grants.

Dr. Toni Rockis is a powerhouse in the world of education and grants. She began her career as a high school special education teacher, quickly rising to a statewide consultant for Vocational-Special Needs Education with the Illinois State Board of Education. From there, she became a Professor of Education at Illinois State University (ISU), all while working as a grant writer and educational consultant. On top of that, she served as Executive Director for two key organizations—the Illinois Vocational-Special Needs Professional Development Center and the Illinois Adult Education Center.

After leaving the university, Dr. Rockis brought her talents to the private sector as Vice President of R&amp;D. In that role, she wrote winning grant proposals that brought much-needed career and STEAM development labs to elementary and high schools across the Midwest.

But that wasn’t the end of her journey with ISU. She returned to establish and direct the National Manufacturing Workforce Development Center, a major initiative under President Bush’s High-Growth Job Training Initiative, funded by the U.S. Department of Labor. Thanks to her leadership, community colleges across the U.S. launched successful workforce development projects that trained dislocated workers for lucrative jobs in manufacturing.

Over the years, Dr. Rockis has become a sought-after expert, writing professional development materials and speaking at national, state, and local conferences. She also had the honor of serving as President of the Grant Professionals Association. (GPA) Chicago Area Chapter for two years.

With an impressive track record of securing over $72M in grant funding for schools and educational organizations nationwide, Dr. Rockis continues to make an impact. She now leads Granted Inc., a consulting firm that helps nonprofits secure sustainable funding through grant writing. She’s also the visionary behind the Grants Made Simple Foundation, a nonprofit that teaches K-12 educators how to write grant proposals to expand their budgets and create new opportunities for their students.

Dr. Rockis is passionate about empowering others, and her dedication to education and community development shines through in everything she does.

More at - https://grantedwriters.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 10 Sep 2024 21:06:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How to Become  a Grant-Ready Nonprofit</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Grant writing with Dr. Toni Rockis</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How to Become  a Grant-Ready Nonprofit

Many nonprofits want to receive grants to support their work, but are not successful in receive the grant awards. Dr. Toni Rockis shares her process for getting more grants.

Dr. Toni Rockis is a powerhouse in the world of education and grants. She began her career as a high school special education teacher, quickly rising to a statewide consultant for Vocational-Special Needs Education with the Illinois State Board of Education. From there, she became a Professor of Education at Illinois State University (ISU), all while working as a grant writer and educational consultant. On top of that, she served as Executive Director for two key organizations—the Illinois Vocational-Special Needs Professional Development Center and the Illinois Adult Education Center.

After leaving the university, Dr. Rockis brought her talents to the private sector as Vice President of R&amp;D. In that role, she wrote winning grant proposals that brought much-needed career and STEAM development labs to elementary and high schools across the Midwest.

But that wasn’t the end of her journey with ISU. She returned to establish and direct the National Manufacturing Workforce Development Center, a major initiative under President Bush’s High-Growth Job Training Initiative, funded by the U.S. Department of Labor. Thanks to her leadership, community colleges across the U.S. launched successful workforce development projects that trained dislocated workers for lucrative jobs in manufacturing.

Over the years, Dr. Rockis has become a sought-after expert, writing professional development materials and speaking at national, state, and local conferences. She also had the honor of serving as President of the Grant Professionals Association. (GPA) Chicago Area Chapter for two years.

With an impressive track record of securing over $72M in grant funding for schools and educational organizations nationwide, Dr. Rockis continues to make an impact. She now leads Granted Inc., a consulting firm that helps nonprofits secure sustainable funding through grant writing. She’s also the visionary behind the Grants Made Simple Foundation, a nonprofit that teaches K-12 educators how to write grant proposals to expand their budgets and create new opportunities for their students.

Dr. Rockis is passionate about empowering others, and her dedication to education and community development shines through in everything she does.

More at - https://grantedwriters.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>How to Become  a Grant-Ready Nonprofit</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>Many nonprofits want to receive grants to support their work, but are not successful in receive the grant awards. Dr. Toni Rockis shares her process for getting more grants.</p><p><br></p><p>Dr. Toni Rockis is a powerhouse in the world of education and grants. She began her career as a high school special education teacher, quickly rising to a statewide consultant for Vocational-Special Needs Education with the Illinois State Board of Education. From there, she became a Professor of Education at Illinois State University (ISU), all while working as a grant writer and educational consultant. On top of that, she served as Executive Director for two key organizations—the Illinois Vocational-Special Needs Professional Development Center and the Illinois Adult Education Center.</p><p><br></p><p>After leaving the university, Dr. Rockis brought her talents to the private sector as Vice President of R&amp;D. In that role, she wrote winning grant proposals that brought much-needed career and STEAM development labs to elementary and high schools across the Midwest.</p><p><br></p><p>But that wasn’t the end of her journey with ISU. She returned to establish and direct the National Manufacturing Workforce Development Center, a major initiative under President Bush’s High-Growth Job Training Initiative, funded by the U.S. Department of Labor. Thanks to her leadership, community colleges across the U.S. launched successful workforce development projects that trained dislocated workers for lucrative jobs in manufacturing.</p><p><br></p><p>Over the years, Dr. Rockis has become a sought-after expert, writing professional development materials and speaking at national, state, and local conferences. She also had the honor of serving as President of the Grant Professionals Association. (GPA) Chicago Area Chapter for two years.</p><p><br></p><p>With an impressive track record of securing over $72M in grant funding for schools and educational organizations nationwide, Dr. Rockis continues to make an impact. She now leads Granted Inc., a consulting firm that helps nonprofits secure sustainable funding through grant writing. She’s also the visionary behind the Grants Made Simple Foundation, a nonprofit that teaches K-12 educators how to write grant proposals to expand their budgets and create new opportunities for their students.</p><p><br></p><p>Dr. Rockis is passionate about empowering others, and her dedication to education and community development shines through in everything she does.</p><p><br></p><p>More at - <a href="https://grantedwriters.com">https://grantedwriters.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1951</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[92c57cb2-6fb8-11ef-955e-2f0788bac304]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7656150284.mp3?updated=1726002701" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Dollars and Dreams: A CPA’s Insight into Nonprofit Sustainability</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/08/27/npe-nonprofit-systainability/</link>
      <description>Dollars and Dreams: A CPA’s Insight into Nonprofit Sustainability

Making sure you have the proper funding and support can help your mission. Letting go of some responsibilities can help the organization grow

LaMichelle Hecht, CPA, MBA is the owner and CEO of Overhead Solutions Group. She brings with her more than nine years of accounting experience, including accounting, audits, grant management cash flow issues, and consulting. She has help nonprofits both large and small prepare for audits, better plan cash flow and help with various accounting issues.

More at https://overheadsolutionsgroup.com/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 27 Aug 2024 19:38:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Dollars and Dreams: A CPA’s Insight into Nonprofit Sustainability</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Funding and Support with LaMichelle Hecht</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Dollars and Dreams: A CPA’s Insight into Nonprofit Sustainability

Making sure you have the proper funding and support can help your mission. Letting go of some responsibilities can help the organization grow

LaMichelle Hecht, CPA, MBA is the owner and CEO of Overhead Solutions Group. She brings with her more than nine years of accounting experience, including accounting, audits, grant management cash flow issues, and consulting. She has help nonprofits both large and small prepare for audits, better plan cash flow and help with various accounting issues.

More at https://overheadsolutionsgroup.com/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Dollars and Dreams: A CPA’s Insight into Nonprofit Sustainability</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>Making sure you have the proper funding and support can help your mission. Letting go of some responsibilities can help the organization grow</p><p><br></p><p>LaMichelle Hecht, CPA, MBA is the owner and CEO of Overhead Solutions Group. She brings with her more than nine years of accounting experience, including accounting, audits, grant management cash flow issues, and consulting. She has help nonprofits both large and small prepare for audits, better plan cash flow and help with various accounting issues.</p><p><br></p><p>More at <a href="https://overheadsolutionsgroup.com/">https://overheadsolutionsgroup.com/</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1502</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f1ede89a-64ab-11ef-9441-1b87674072e5]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8030433079.mp3?updated=1724787815" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Revolutionizing Community Philanthropy by Empowering the Next Generation of Givers</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/08/21/npe-community-philanthropy/</link>
      <description>Revolutionizing Community Philanthropy by Empowering the Next Generation of Givers

Open minds &amp; Open hearts can shift how we observe new solutions that serve our communities. Shared empathy, compassion and curiosity Empowers young hearts &amp; minds to participate. Transparency, Accessibility &amp; Affordability will Engage a new generation of Philanthropists.

Revolutionizing Community Philanthropy - Via Engagement, Education &amp; Empowerment - Transparency &amp; Impact tracking, Shifting the mindset from Scarcity &gt;"Giving money (donation) away" to Abundance &gt; making an "Impact Investment" in their community. Serving Community Nonprofits with tools, data &amp; insights to drive engagement, collaboration and reliable funding.

John Del Bello is a visionary entrepreneur with over 35 years of community involvement dedicated to revolutionizing philanthropy. He combines curated technology with accessibility and affordability, drawing from 2,500+ hours of research. Holding a 2020-21 Certification in Nonprofit Leadership &amp; Management from Austin Community College’s top-ranked Center for Nonprofit Studies, he’s equipped with vital skills for nonprofit leadership.



More information at https://bgiving.one 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 21 Aug 2024 15:55:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Revolutionizing Community Philanthropy by Empowering the Next Generation of Givers</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Creating Young Philanthropists with John Del Bello</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Revolutionizing Community Philanthropy by Empowering the Next Generation of Givers

Open minds &amp; Open hearts can shift how we observe new solutions that serve our communities. Shared empathy, compassion and curiosity Empowers young hearts &amp; minds to participate. Transparency, Accessibility &amp; Affordability will Engage a new generation of Philanthropists.

Revolutionizing Community Philanthropy - Via Engagement, Education &amp; Empowerment - Transparency &amp; Impact tracking, Shifting the mindset from Scarcity &gt;"Giving money (donation) away" to Abundance &gt; making an "Impact Investment" in their community. Serving Community Nonprofits with tools, data &amp; insights to drive engagement, collaboration and reliable funding.

John Del Bello is a visionary entrepreneur with over 35 years of community involvement dedicated to revolutionizing philanthropy. He combines curated technology with accessibility and affordability, drawing from 2,500+ hours of research. Holding a 2020-21 Certification in Nonprofit Leadership &amp; Management from Austin Community College’s top-ranked Center for Nonprofit Studies, he’s equipped with vital skills for nonprofit leadership.



More information at https://bgiving.one 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Revolutionizing Community Philanthropy by Empowering the Next Generation of Givers</h1><p><br></p><p>Open minds &amp; Open hearts can shift how we observe new solutions that serve our communities. Shared empathy, compassion and curiosity Empowers young hearts &amp; minds to participate. Transparency, Accessibility &amp; Affordability will Engage a new generation of Philanthropists.</p><p><br></p><p>Revolutionizing Community Philanthropy - Via Engagement, Education &amp; Empowerment - Transparency &amp; Impact tracking, Shifting the mindset from Scarcity &gt;"Giving money (donation) away" to Abundance &gt; making an "Impact Investment" in their community. Serving Community Nonprofits with tools, data &amp; insights to drive engagement, collaboration and reliable funding.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>John Del Bello</strong> is a visionary entrepreneur with over 35 years of community involvement dedicated to revolutionizing philanthropy. He combines curated technology with accessibility and affordability, drawing from 2,500+ hours of research. Holding a 2020-21 Certification in Nonprofit Leadership &amp; Management from Austin Community College’s top-ranked Center for Nonprofit Studies, he’s equipped with vital skills for nonprofit leadership.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>More information at <a href="https://bgiving.one">https://bgiving.one</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1578</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[c2c39a7c-5fd5-11ef-ae68-afa0aecf9f0c]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1032448588.mp3?updated=1724256018" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Passion, Purpose, Profits: Reach for Your Dreams</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/08/13/npe-passion-purpose-profits/</link>
      <description>Passion, Purpose, Profits: Reach for Your Dreams

Diane Strand is a serial entrepreneur, best-selling author, speaker, and nonprofit founder. With a steadfast mission of providing access and career pathways for all in the arts, Diane leads her business with passion and purpose to help make this possible. She sets out to provide H.O.P.E. which Diane defines as; Helping One Person Everyday! She is the majority owner of the multi-award-winning JDS Video &amp; Media Productions, Inc. The Producer at JDS Actors Studio where she has launched over 100 careers into the mainstream entertainment industry, and Founder of the nonprofit 501c3 JDS Creative Academy, where she works with youth, teens, and adults mainstream through special needs, at-risk and foster youth. Diane is the Creator and Executive Producer of the broadcasted and live-streamed TV Show Spirit of Innovation now in its sixth season delivering news and information for Riverside County and created the award-winning international event DigiFest Temecula.

More at - https://jdscreativeacademy.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:51:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Passion, Purpose, Profits: Reach for Your Dreams</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Everybody Has Access</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Passion, Purpose, Profits: Reach for Your Dreams

Diane Strand is a serial entrepreneur, best-selling author, speaker, and nonprofit founder. With a steadfast mission of providing access and career pathways for all in the arts, Diane leads her business with passion and purpose to help make this possible. She sets out to provide H.O.P.E. which Diane defines as; Helping One Person Everyday! She is the majority owner of the multi-award-winning JDS Video &amp; Media Productions, Inc. The Producer at JDS Actors Studio where she has launched over 100 careers into the mainstream entertainment industry, and Founder of the nonprofit 501c3 JDS Creative Academy, where she works with youth, teens, and adults mainstream through special needs, at-risk and foster youth. Diane is the Creator and Executive Producer of the broadcasted and live-streamed TV Show Spirit of Innovation now in its sixth season delivering news and information for Riverside County and created the award-winning international event DigiFest Temecula.

More at - https://jdscreativeacademy.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Passion, Purpose, Profits: Reach for Your Dreams</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>Diane Strand is a serial entrepreneur, best-selling author, speaker, and nonprofit founder. With a steadfast mission of providing access and career pathways for all in the arts, Diane leads her business with passion and purpose to help make this possible. She sets out to provide H.O.P.E. which Diane defines as; Helping One Person Everyday! She is the majority owner of the multi-award-winning JDS Video &amp; Media Productions, Inc. The Producer at JDS Actors Studio where she has launched over 100 careers into the mainstream entertainment industry, and Founder of the nonprofit 501c3 JDS Creative Academy, where she works with youth, teens, and adults mainstream through special needs, at-risk and foster youth. Diane is the Creator and Executive Producer of the broadcasted and live-streamed TV Show Spirit of Innovation now in its sixth season delivering news and information for Riverside County and created the award-winning international event DigiFest Temecula.</p><p><br></p><p>More at - <a href="https://jdscreativeacademy.org">https://jdscreativeacademy.org</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1667</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[6939e106-59ad-11ef-a6f5-5febdb00f02d]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5359912342.mp3?updated=1723578981" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Effective Brand Strategies for Nonprofits</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/08/06/npe-nonprofit-branding/</link>
      <description>Effective Brand Strategies for Nonprofits

It’s more important than ever to be able to stand out from the crowd, distinguish your organization, and be meaningful to your audiences. Understanding the relevance of your brand and how your organization meshes with people’s values and world perspective and meets people’s needs is crucial in today’s world.

Howard Levy is a brand strategist, award-winning creative director, marketing, and fundraising expert with a 30-year track record of helping organizations revitalize their brands, engage their audiences, and raise more money.

Notes: Nonprofit branding expert Howard Levy has helped hundreds of organizations overcome their inertia, wake up their brands, and reach a higher level of success. Recognizing the need for nonprofits to tell their stories more effectively to drive awareness, he founded one of the first marketing agencies focused specifically on the needs of the nonprofit sector 30 years ago. As President of Red Rooster Group, he’s partnered with organizations across a range of causes, revitalizing their brands to remain relevant. He has helped nonprofits to update their missions to meet the moment, change their names without losing their history, reframe their stories to expand nationally or internationally, and create cohesive visual identities to connect fractured chapters. 

More at - https://redroostergroup.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2024 22:06:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Effective Brand Strategies for Nonprofits</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Building Brand Strategies by Howard Levy</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Effective Brand Strategies for Nonprofits

It’s more important than ever to be able to stand out from the crowd, distinguish your organization, and be meaningful to your audiences. Understanding the relevance of your brand and how your organization meshes with people’s values and world perspective and meets people’s needs is crucial in today’s world.

Howard Levy is a brand strategist, award-winning creative director, marketing, and fundraising expert with a 30-year track record of helping organizations revitalize their brands, engage their audiences, and raise more money.

Notes: Nonprofit branding expert Howard Levy has helped hundreds of organizations overcome their inertia, wake up their brands, and reach a higher level of success. Recognizing the need for nonprofits to tell their stories more effectively to drive awareness, he founded one of the first marketing agencies focused specifically on the needs of the nonprofit sector 30 years ago. As President of Red Rooster Group, he’s partnered with organizations across a range of causes, revitalizing their brands to remain relevant. He has helped nonprofits to update their missions to meet the moment, change their names without losing their history, reframe their stories to expand nationally or internationally, and create cohesive visual identities to connect fractured chapters. 

More at - https://redroostergroup.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Effective Brand Strategies for Nonprofits</p><p><br></p><p>It’s more important than ever to be able to stand out from the crowd, distinguish your organization, and be meaningful to your audiences. Understanding the relevance of your brand and how your organization meshes with people’s values and world perspective and meets people’s needs is crucial in today’s world.</p><p><br></p><p>Howard Levy is a brand strategist, award-winning creative director, marketing, and fundraising expert with a 30-year track record of helping organizations revitalize their brands, engage their audiences, and raise more money.</p><p><br></p><p>Notes: Nonprofit branding expert Howard Levy has helped hundreds of organizations overcome their inertia, wake up their brands, and reach a higher level of success. Recognizing the need for nonprofits to tell their stories more effectively to drive awareness, he founded one of the first marketing agencies focused specifically on the needs of the nonprofit sector 30 years ago. As President of Red Rooster Group, he’s partnered with organizations across a range of causes, revitalizing their brands to remain relevant. He has helped nonprofits to update their missions to meet the moment, change their names without losing their history, reframe their stories to expand nationally or internationally, and create cohesive visual identities to connect fractured chapters. </p><p><br></p><p>More at - <a href="https://redroostergroup.com">https://redroostergroup.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1800</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2d4f0918-5440-11ef-bdd1-6337ae001daf]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2871850575.mp3?updated=1722982309" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Navigating the Generosity Crisis: Post-COVID Funding Surge - What's Next?</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/07/30/npe-funding-accounting/</link>
      <description>Navigating the Generosity Crisis: Post-COVID Funding Surge - What's Next?

Jason Kruger is kind of a badass when it comes to accounting. Don’t be fooled by his impressive resume and professional demeanor, he’s shaking up the way business owners think about running their organizations. Gone are the days of the traditional office model with an accounting team that stays with a company for 35 years and then retires with a pension. Today’s business owners have to make strategic decisions to optimize profitability. The only way to do that is with good data from their accounting teams. Jason’s 20+ years of accounting and business advisory experience puts him in a prime position to help guide business owners to make smarter business decisions. Often, that means choosing outsourced solutions to provide next-level expertise at a fraction of an in-house cost. Founded in 2008, Signature Analytics brings the expertise and benefits of large company financial and accounting tools and processes to small and medium-sized businesses and larger non-profit organizations. Since that time under Kruger's leadership, Signature Analytics was recognized as an Inc. 5000 company for FIVE straight years for growth and as a “Best Place to Work”. Signature Analytics still has a headquarters in Southern CA while delivering exceptional service to clients across the US. Before founding Signature Analytics, Kruger spent 10 years in public accounting, finishing as a Senior Audit Manager at Deloitte. He holds a Bachelor's degree in Accounting and Finance from the University of Arizona. With Kruger's expertise and Signature Analytics' commitment to delivering reliable financial insights, businesses and nonprofits can make smart decisions based on real numbers.

More at - https://signatureanalytics.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2024 19:42:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Navigating the Generosity Crisis: Post-COVID Funding Surge - What's Next?</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Nonprofit Financial Management</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Navigating the Generosity Crisis: Post-COVID Funding Surge - What's Next?

Jason Kruger is kind of a badass when it comes to accounting. Don’t be fooled by his impressive resume and professional demeanor, he’s shaking up the way business owners think about running their organizations. Gone are the days of the traditional office model with an accounting team that stays with a company for 35 years and then retires with a pension. Today’s business owners have to make strategic decisions to optimize profitability. The only way to do that is with good data from their accounting teams. Jason’s 20+ years of accounting and business advisory experience puts him in a prime position to help guide business owners to make smarter business decisions. Often, that means choosing outsourced solutions to provide next-level expertise at a fraction of an in-house cost. Founded in 2008, Signature Analytics brings the expertise and benefits of large company financial and accounting tools and processes to small and medium-sized businesses and larger non-profit organizations. Since that time under Kruger's leadership, Signature Analytics was recognized as an Inc. 5000 company for FIVE straight years for growth and as a “Best Place to Work”. Signature Analytics still has a headquarters in Southern CA while delivering exceptional service to clients across the US. Before founding Signature Analytics, Kruger spent 10 years in public accounting, finishing as a Senior Audit Manager at Deloitte. He holds a Bachelor's degree in Accounting and Finance from the University of Arizona. With Kruger's expertise and Signature Analytics' commitment to delivering reliable financial insights, businesses and nonprofits can make smart decisions based on real numbers.

More at - https://signatureanalytics.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Navigating the Generosity Crisis: Post-COVID Funding Surge - What's Next?</h1><p><br></p><p>Jason Kruger is kind of a badass when it comes to accounting. Don’t be fooled by his impressive resume and professional demeanor, he’s shaking up the way business owners think about running their organizations. Gone are the days of the traditional office model with an accounting team that stays with a company for 35 years and then retires with a pension. Today’s business owners have to make strategic decisions to optimize profitability. The only way to do that is with good data from their accounting teams. Jason’s 20+ years of accounting and business advisory experience puts him in a prime position to help guide business owners to make smarter business decisions. Often, that means choosing outsourced solutions to provide next-level expertise at a fraction of an in-house cost. Founded in 2008, Signature Analytics brings the expertise and benefits of large company financial and accounting tools and processes to small and medium-sized businesses and larger non-profit organizations. Since that time under Kruger's leadership, Signature Analytics was recognized as an Inc. 5000 company for FIVE straight years for growth and as a “Best Place to Work”. Signature Analytics still has a headquarters in Southern CA while delivering exceptional service to clients across the US. Before founding Signature Analytics, Kruger spent 10 years in public accounting, finishing as a Senior Audit Manager at Deloitte. He holds a Bachelor's degree in Accounting and Finance from the University of Arizona. With Kruger's expertise and Signature Analytics' commitment to delivering reliable financial insights, businesses and nonprofits can make smart decisions based on real numbers.</p><p><br></p><p>More at - <a href="https://signatureanalytics.com">https://signatureanalytics.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1738</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Write Like a Thought Leader - Now with AI</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/07/23/npe-thought-leader/</link>
      <description>Write Like a Thought Leader - Now with AI

You can become a thought leader by finding a framing your best ideas. The key is defining a very narrow niche, having an opinion and writing in a journalistic style.

Rhea Wessel is an American writer who helps companies grow their business by enabling their subject-matter experts with journalistic thinking and writing skills. As a journalist, she wrote thousands of stories for magazines and newspapers, including The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and BBC. As a writer for companies, she has penned and edited thousands more stories across 30 industries. Rhea is the founder and head of The Institute for Thought Leadership. Her book, Write Like a Thought Leader, was published in 2022. She is at work on version 2, which is focused on using AI to boost your thought leadership.

Website - https://www.instituteforthoughtleadership.com/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2024 21:50:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Write Like a Thought Leader - Now with AI</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Writing Skills with Rhea Wessel</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Write Like a Thought Leader - Now with AI

You can become a thought leader by finding a framing your best ideas. The key is defining a very narrow niche, having an opinion and writing in a journalistic style.

Rhea Wessel is an American writer who helps companies grow their business by enabling their subject-matter experts with journalistic thinking and writing skills. As a journalist, she wrote thousands of stories for magazines and newspapers, including The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and BBC. As a writer for companies, she has penned and edited thousands more stories across 30 industries. Rhea is the founder and head of The Institute for Thought Leadership. Her book, Write Like a Thought Leader, was published in 2022. She is at work on version 2, which is focused on using AI to boost your thought leadership.

Website - https://www.instituteforthoughtleadership.com/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Write Like a Thought Leader - Now with AI</h1><p><br></p><p>You can become a thought leader by finding a framing your best ideas. The key is defining a very narrow niche, having an opinion and writing in a journalistic style.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Rhea Wessel</strong> is an American writer who helps companies grow their business by enabling their subject-matter experts with journalistic thinking and writing skills. As a journalist, she wrote thousands of stories for magazines and newspapers, including The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and BBC. As a writer for companies, she has penned and edited thousands more stories across 30 industries. Rhea is the founder and head of The Institute for Thought Leadership. Her book, Write Like a Thought Leader, was published in 2022. She is at work on version 2, which is focused on using AI to boost your thought leadership.</p><p><br></p><p>Website - <a href="https://www.instituteforthoughtleadership.com/">https://www.instituteforthoughtleadership.com/</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1606</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Moving from Conversation to Action: Funding Solutions to Empower Teens in the Digital Age</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/07/16/npe-empower-teens/</link>
      <description>Moving from Conversation to Action: Funding Solutions to Empower Teens in the Digital Age 

Message from Katya Hancock: First of all, it’s hard to be a nonprofit leader and I’m cheering you on. I encourage you to: 1. Take care of yourself as much as you can. Take weekends off, take vacations/staycations, and take time to celebrate your wins. It can be so easy to stay in the day-to-day blocking and tackling of issues that pop up and move right past the moments that deserve recognition by you and your team. 2. Culture matters. Take the time to develop a culture guide, including your core values, what you stand for, who you want to emulate, and how you work. Share this openly with your team for feedback and make sure they’re bought in. 3. Borrow some best practices from the startup world. For example, funders want to hear about quarterly and annual goals as well as projections. It can be tough to make projections when you’re in a constant fundraising hustle, but this practice will ultimately help fundraising. Reassess annual and quarterly goals every 90 days with your leadership team. Lastly, if you’re an org working to help teens and preteens navigate tech, we’d love to meet you! Please reach out.

Katya Hancock is a mission-driven executive, entrepreneur, and public health champion with more than two decades of impact leadership across healthcare, technology, and philanthropic ventures. Katya is the founding Executive Director of Young Futures, a nonprofit on a mission to make it easier to grow up in the digital world. Young Futures was founded to help young people and their families to not just survive, but flourish as a team when meeting the uncertainties of this digital wilderness. Prior to Young Futures, Katya spent a decade as a founding team member and Chief Impact Officer of StartUp Health, an organization dedicated to achieving health moonshots: the world’s most pressing health challenges, including mental health, health equity, access to care, children’s health, and women's health. During Katya’s tenure, StartUp Health’s portfolio grew to 500 companies in 30 countries. Katya has also worked as an operator across multiple startups, including helping to build two successful fintech startups from the seed stage to acquisition by Fortune 500 companies. For Katya the Young Futures mission is personal. She lives in Berkeley, CA with her husband and two young children, Oz (9) and Coco (7).

More information at https://www.youngfutures.org/ 










Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 Jul 2024 19:52:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Moving from Conversation to Action: Funding Solutions to Empower Teens in the Digital Age</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Katy Hancock</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Moving from Conversation to Action: Funding Solutions to Empower Teens in the Digital Age 

Message from Katya Hancock: First of all, it’s hard to be a nonprofit leader and I’m cheering you on. I encourage you to: 1. Take care of yourself as much as you can. Take weekends off, take vacations/staycations, and take time to celebrate your wins. It can be so easy to stay in the day-to-day blocking and tackling of issues that pop up and move right past the moments that deserve recognition by you and your team. 2. Culture matters. Take the time to develop a culture guide, including your core values, what you stand for, who you want to emulate, and how you work. Share this openly with your team for feedback and make sure they’re bought in. 3. Borrow some best practices from the startup world. For example, funders want to hear about quarterly and annual goals as well as projections. It can be tough to make projections when you’re in a constant fundraising hustle, but this practice will ultimately help fundraising. Reassess annual and quarterly goals every 90 days with your leadership team. Lastly, if you’re an org working to help teens and preteens navigate tech, we’d love to meet you! Please reach out.

Katya Hancock is a mission-driven executive, entrepreneur, and public health champion with more than two decades of impact leadership across healthcare, technology, and philanthropic ventures. Katya is the founding Executive Director of Young Futures, a nonprofit on a mission to make it easier to grow up in the digital world. Young Futures was founded to help young people and their families to not just survive, but flourish as a team when meeting the uncertainties of this digital wilderness. Prior to Young Futures, Katya spent a decade as a founding team member and Chief Impact Officer of StartUp Health, an organization dedicated to achieving health moonshots: the world’s most pressing health challenges, including mental health, health equity, access to care, children’s health, and women's health. During Katya’s tenure, StartUp Health’s portfolio grew to 500 companies in 30 countries. Katya has also worked as an operator across multiple startups, including helping to build two successful fintech startups from the seed stage to acquisition by Fortune 500 companies. For Katya the Young Futures mission is personal. She lives in Berkeley, CA with her husband and two young children, Oz (9) and Coco (7).

More information at https://www.youngfutures.org/ 










Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>
<strong>Moving from Conversation to Action: Funding Solutions to Empower Teens in the Digital Age</strong> </h1><p><br></p><p>Message from Katya Hancock: First of all, it’s hard to be a nonprofit leader and I’m cheering you on. I encourage you to: 1. Take care of yourself as much as you can. Take weekends off, take vacations/staycations, and take time to celebrate your wins. It can be so easy to stay in the day-to-day blocking and tackling of issues that pop up and move right past the moments that deserve recognition by you and your team. 2. Culture matters. Take the time to develop a culture guide, including your core values, what you stand for, who you want to emulate, and how you work. Share this openly with your team for feedback and make sure they’re bought in. 3. Borrow some best practices from the startup world. For example, funders want to hear about quarterly and annual goals as well as projections. It can be tough to make projections when you’re in a constant fundraising hustle, but this practice will ultimately help fundraising. Reassess annual and quarterly goals every 90 days with your leadership team. Lastly, if you’re an org working to help teens and preteens navigate tech, we’d love to meet you! Please reach out.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Katya Hancock</strong> is a mission-driven executive, entrepreneur, and public health champion with more than two decades of impact leadership across healthcare, technology, and philanthropic ventures. Katya is the founding Executive Director of Young Futures, a nonprofit on a mission to make it easier to grow up in the digital world. Young Futures was founded to help young people and their families to not just survive, but flourish as a team when meeting the uncertainties of this digital wilderness. Prior to Young Futures, Katya spent a decade as a founding team member and Chief Impact Officer of StartUp Health, an organization dedicated to achieving health moonshots: the world’s most pressing health challenges, including mental health, health equity, access to care, children’s health, and women's health. During Katya’s tenure, StartUp Health’s portfolio grew to 500 companies in 30 countries. Katya has also worked as an operator across multiple startups, including helping to build two successful fintech startups from the seed stage to acquisition by Fortune 500 companies. For Katya the Young Futures mission is personal. She lives in Berkeley, CA with her husband and two young children, Oz (9) and Coco (7).</p><p><br></p><p>More information at <a href="https://www.youngfutures.org/">https://www.youngfutures.org/</a> </p><p><br></p><p><br></p><ol>
<li><br></li>
<li><br></li>
<li><br></li>
</ol><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1772</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Collaborate to Innovate: Unlocking Success in Nonprofit Partnerships</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/07/02/npe-collaborate-to-innovate/</link>
      <description>Collaborate to Innovate: Unlocking Success in Nonprofit Partnerships

Michelle Shumate is the founder and owner of Social Impact Network Consulting (SINC). Through SINC, she helps social impact leaders find nuanced solutions through coaching and consulting. She is the author of the forthcoming book, Networks for Social Impact (Oxford University Press). Her work has been featured in Stanford Social Innovation Review, Nonprofit Quarterly, and Youth Today. Michelle is the founding director of Network for Nonprofit and Social Impact (NNSI), the Delaney Family University Research Professor, and Associate Faculty at the Institute for Policy Research at Northwestern University. She is also spouse to Michael, mom to Oliver and Alex, and an avid backyard birdwatcher.

Sustained Collaboration is a powerful strategic tool for nonprofit leaders to build resilience and increase their social impact. I'd like nonprofit leaders and clergy to: 1. Learn about the types of sustained collaboration available, including mergers, asset transfers, shared service arrangements, shared projects, and alliances. 2. Consider these types of collaborations as strategic tools to (a) embark on a strategic transformation, (b) establish new programs or improve and expand existing programs, (c) develop new efficiencies through shared assets, (d) create policy wins, (e) encourage innovation, and (f) produce better quality outcomes for clients and the community.

More information at the following sites:
https://sustainedcollab.org 
https://michelleshumate.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 02 Jul 2024 16:22:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Collaborate to Innovate: Unlocking Success in Nonprofit Partnerships</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Michelle Schumate</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Collaborate to Innovate: Unlocking Success in Nonprofit Partnerships

Michelle Shumate is the founder and owner of Social Impact Network Consulting (SINC). Through SINC, she helps social impact leaders find nuanced solutions through coaching and consulting. She is the author of the forthcoming book, Networks for Social Impact (Oxford University Press). Her work has been featured in Stanford Social Innovation Review, Nonprofit Quarterly, and Youth Today. Michelle is the founding director of Network for Nonprofit and Social Impact (NNSI), the Delaney Family University Research Professor, and Associate Faculty at the Institute for Policy Research at Northwestern University. She is also spouse to Michael, mom to Oliver and Alex, and an avid backyard birdwatcher.

Sustained Collaboration is a powerful strategic tool for nonprofit leaders to build resilience and increase their social impact. I'd like nonprofit leaders and clergy to: 1. Learn about the types of sustained collaboration available, including mergers, asset transfers, shared service arrangements, shared projects, and alliances. 2. Consider these types of collaborations as strategic tools to (a) embark on a strategic transformation, (b) establish new programs or improve and expand existing programs, (c) develop new efficiencies through shared assets, (d) create policy wins, (e) encourage innovation, and (f) produce better quality outcomes for clients and the community.

More information at the following sites:
https://sustainedcollab.org 
https://michelleshumate.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Collaborate to Innovate: Unlocking Success in Nonprofit Partnerships</h1><p><br></p><p>Michelle Shumate is the founder and owner of Social Impact Network Consulting (SINC). Through SINC, she helps social impact leaders find nuanced solutions through coaching and consulting. She is the author of the forthcoming book, Networks for Social Impact (Oxford University Press). Her work has been featured in Stanford Social Innovation Review, Nonprofit Quarterly, and Youth Today. Michelle is the founding director of Network for Nonprofit and Social Impact (NNSI), the Delaney Family University Research Professor, and Associate Faculty at the Institute for Policy Research at Northwestern University. She is also spouse to Michael, mom to Oliver and Alex, and an avid backyard birdwatcher.</p><p><br></p><p>Sustained Collaboration is a powerful strategic tool for nonprofit leaders to build resilience and increase their social impact. I'd like nonprofit leaders and clergy to: 1. Learn about the types of sustained collaboration available, including mergers, asset transfers, shared service arrangements, shared projects, and alliances. 2. Consider these types of collaborations as strategic tools to (a) embark on a strategic transformation, (b) establish new programs or improve and expand existing programs, (c) develop new efficiencies through shared assets, (d) create policy wins, (e) encourage innovation, and (f) produce better quality outcomes for clients and the community.</p><p><br></p><p>More information at the following sites:</p><p><a href="https://sustainedcollab.org">https://sustainedcollab.org</a> </p><p><a href="https://michelleshumate.com">https://michelleshumate.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1675</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Mission Driven, Not Superhuman</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/06/25/npe-template-copy-3/</link>
      <description>Mission Driven, Not Superhuman

If you choose a life in service of others it doesn't have to come at a cost to your own health and well-being. Leaders and organizations have an obligation to provide a holistic, human-centered duty of care for their staff that protects the whole human being.

Dimple Dhabalia is a writer, podcaster, facilitator, and coach with over twenty years of experience working at the intersection of leadership, mindful awareness, and storytelling. In 2021 Dimple founded Roots in the Clouds, a boutique consulting firm specializing in using the power of story to heal organizational trauma and moral injury. Dimple is the best-selling author of Tell Me My Story—Challenging the Narrative of Service Before Self and the creator and host of two podcasts, Service Without Sacrifice and What Would Ted Lasso Do? Follow her @dimpstory across all social media platforms and on Substack at dear humanitarian.

More at - https://www.rootsintheclouds.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:15:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Mission Driven, Not Superhuman</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Organizational Trauma and Moral Injury</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Mission Driven, Not Superhuman

If you choose a life in service of others it doesn't have to come at a cost to your own health and well-being. Leaders and organizations have an obligation to provide a holistic, human-centered duty of care for their staff that protects the whole human being.

Dimple Dhabalia is a writer, podcaster, facilitator, and coach with over twenty years of experience working at the intersection of leadership, mindful awareness, and storytelling. In 2021 Dimple founded Roots in the Clouds, a boutique consulting firm specializing in using the power of story to heal organizational trauma and moral injury. Dimple is the best-selling author of Tell Me My Story—Challenging the Narrative of Service Before Self and the creator and host of two podcasts, Service Without Sacrifice and What Would Ted Lasso Do? Follow her @dimpstory across all social media platforms and on Substack at dear humanitarian.

More at - https://www.rootsintheclouds.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Mission Driven, Not Superhuman</strong></p><p><br></p><p>If you choose a life in service of others it doesn't have to come at a cost to your own health and well-being. Leaders and organizations have an obligation to provide a holistic, human-centered duty of care for their staff that protects the whole human being.</p><p><br></p><p>Dimple Dhabalia is a writer, podcaster, facilitator, and coach with over twenty years of experience working at the intersection of leadership, mindful awareness, and storytelling. In 2021 Dimple founded Roots in the Clouds, a boutique consulting firm specializing in using the power of story to heal organizational trauma and moral injury. Dimple is the best-selling author of Tell Me My Story—Challenging the Narrative of Service Before Self and the creator and host of two podcasts, Service Without Sacrifice and What Would Ted Lasso Do? Follow her @dimpstory across all social media platforms and on Substack at dear humanitarian.</p><p><br></p><p>More at - <a href="https://www.rootsintheclouds.com">https://www.rootsintheclouds.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1954</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Unveiling the Veil: Debunking Myths and Uncovering Truths in Nonprofit HR Practice</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/06/18/npe-human-resources-myths/</link>
      <description>Unveiling the Veil: Debunking Myths and Uncovering Truths in Nonprofit HR Practice
Shelley Majors is an accomplished HR consultant with over 25 years of experience, including five years specializing in the nonprofit sector. As the founder of Boardwalk Human Resources Consulting, she strategically aligns human resources with corporate objectives to boost employee engagement and efficiency. Notably, Shelley developed a talent acquisition strategy that improved employee retention by 40% for a leading nonprofit, demonstrating her ability to translate strategic visions into tangible results.

HR is crucial for the success of any nonprofit, extending beyond recruitment to strategic partnership in achieving organizational goals. To nonprofit leaders and clergy, remember that HR professionals are pivotal in developing leadership, nurturing talent, and enhancing organizational culture. They align HR strategies with your objectives, fostering a productive work environment and driving initiatives that boost morale, efficiency, and retention. Investing in strong HR practices is investing in the foundation of your organization's success, ensuring the right people are in place to effectively carry out your mission.

More information at - https://www.boardwalkhr.com/home 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2024 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Unveiling the Veil: Debunking Myths and Uncovering Truths in Nonprofit HR Practice</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Sharing the Truths about HR for Nonprofits</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Unveiling the Veil: Debunking Myths and Uncovering Truths in Nonprofit HR Practice
Shelley Majors is an accomplished HR consultant with over 25 years of experience, including five years specializing in the nonprofit sector. As the founder of Boardwalk Human Resources Consulting, she strategically aligns human resources with corporate objectives to boost employee engagement and efficiency. Notably, Shelley developed a talent acquisition strategy that improved employee retention by 40% for a leading nonprofit, demonstrating her ability to translate strategic visions into tangible results.

HR is crucial for the success of any nonprofit, extending beyond recruitment to strategic partnership in achieving organizational goals. To nonprofit leaders and clergy, remember that HR professionals are pivotal in developing leadership, nurturing talent, and enhancing organizational culture. They align HR strategies with your objectives, fostering a productive work environment and driving initiatives that boost morale, efficiency, and retention. Investing in strong HR practices is investing in the foundation of your organization's success, ensuring the right people are in place to effectively carry out your mission.

More information at - https://www.boardwalkhr.com/home 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Unveiling the Veil: Debunking Myths and Uncovering Truths in Nonprofit HR Practice</h1><p>Shelley Majors is an accomplished HR consultant with over 25 years of experience, including five years specializing in the nonprofit sector. As the founder of Boardwalk Human Resources Consulting, she strategically aligns human resources with corporate objectives to boost employee engagement and efficiency. Notably, Shelley developed a talent acquisition strategy that improved employee retention by 40% for a leading nonprofit, demonstrating her ability to translate strategic visions into tangible results.</p><p><br></p><p>HR is crucial for the success of any nonprofit, extending beyond recruitment to strategic partnership in achieving organizational goals. To nonprofit leaders and clergy, remember that HR professionals are pivotal in developing leadership, nurturing talent, and enhancing organizational culture. They align HR strategies with your objectives, fostering a productive work environment and driving initiatives that boost morale, efficiency, and retention. Investing in strong HR practices is investing in the foundation of your organization's success, ensuring the right people are in place to effectively carry out your mission.</p><p><br></p><p>More information at - <a href="https://www.boardwalkhr.com/home">https://www.boardwalkhr.com/home</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1622</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Breaking Down Barriers and Bias for Women in Leadership</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/06/11/npe-women-in-leadership/</link>
      <description>Breaking Down Barriers and Bias for Women in Leadership

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, we had the privilege of hosting Linda Fisk, a thought leader in women's leadership and the founder of LeadHership Global. Linda shared her journey of creating a community of extraordinary women in leadership, focused on unleashing their full potential and creating personal and professional breakthroughs.
The discussion delved into the concept of the glass ceiling, which represents the barriers preventing women and minorities from reaching top leadership positions. Linda highlighted the staggering statistics showing the underrepresentation of women in the C-suite and the persistent gender inequality in the workplace.
Moreover, the conversation expanded to address biases and stereotypes that hinder women's progress in leadership roles. Linda emphasized the importance of awareness of implicit biases and the need for regular bias and stereotype training in organizations.
Furthermore, the episode explored proactive strategies to break down barriers and bias for women in leadership. Linda suggested setting diversity hiring goals, establishing anti-discrimination policies, and conducting blind screenings in recruitment processes. She also emphasized the significance of networking, mentorship, and seeking alternative funding sources for women entrepreneurs.
The episode concluded with a call to action for individuals to stand up against inequities in the workplace, speak out about unfair practices, and seek support from HR and organizational leaders to ensure equal opportunities for all.
Overall, the episode provided valuable insights and actionable steps to address gender inequality and empower women in leadership roles, emphasizing the importance of creating inclusive and diverse work environments for the advancement of all individuals
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 11 Jun 2024 19:51:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Breaking Down Barriers and Bias for Women in Leadership</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with LeadHERship Founder Linda Fisk</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Breaking Down Barriers and Bias for Women in Leadership

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, we had the privilege of hosting Linda Fisk, a thought leader in women's leadership and the founder of LeadHership Global. Linda shared her journey of creating a community of extraordinary women in leadership, focused on unleashing their full potential and creating personal and professional breakthroughs.
The discussion delved into the concept of the glass ceiling, which represents the barriers preventing women and minorities from reaching top leadership positions. Linda highlighted the staggering statistics showing the underrepresentation of women in the C-suite and the persistent gender inequality in the workplace.
Moreover, the conversation expanded to address biases and stereotypes that hinder women's progress in leadership roles. Linda emphasized the importance of awareness of implicit biases and the need for regular bias and stereotype training in organizations.
Furthermore, the episode explored proactive strategies to break down barriers and bias for women in leadership. Linda suggested setting diversity hiring goals, establishing anti-discrimination policies, and conducting blind screenings in recruitment processes. She also emphasized the significance of networking, mentorship, and seeking alternative funding sources for women entrepreneurs.
The episode concluded with a call to action for individuals to stand up against inequities in the workplace, speak out about unfair practices, and seek support from HR and organizational leaders to ensure equal opportunities for all.
Overall, the episode provided valuable insights and actionable steps to address gender inequality and empower women in leadership roles, emphasizing the importance of creating inclusive and diverse work environments for the advancement of all individuals
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Breaking Down Barriers and Bias for Women in Leadership</h1><p><br></p><p>In this episode of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em>, we had the privilege of hosting Linda Fisk, a thought leader in women's leadership and the founder of LeadHership Global. Linda shared her journey of creating a community of extraordinary women in leadership, focused on unleashing their full potential and creating personal and professional breakthroughs.</p><p>The discussion delved into the concept of the glass ceiling, which represents the barriers preventing women and minorities from reaching top leadership positions. Linda highlighted the staggering statistics showing the underrepresentation of women in the C-suite and the persistent gender inequality in the workplace.</p><p>Moreover, the conversation expanded to address biases and stereotypes that hinder women's progress in leadership roles. Linda emphasized the importance of awareness of implicit biases and the need for regular bias and stereotype training in organizations.</p><p>Furthermore, the episode explored proactive strategies to break down barriers and bias for women in leadership. Linda suggested setting diversity hiring goals, establishing anti-discrimination policies, and conducting blind screenings in recruitment processes. She also emphasized the significance of networking, mentorship, and seeking alternative funding sources for women entrepreneurs.</p><p>The episode concluded with a call to action for individuals to stand up against inequities in the workplace, speak out about unfair practices, and seek support from HR and organizational leaders to ensure equal opportunities for all.</p><p>Overall, the episode provided valuable insights and actionable steps to address gender inequality and empower women in leadership roles, emphasizing the importance of creating inclusive and diverse work environments for the advancement of all individuals</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1622</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Ask a Funder - What High Impact Funders Look for in Your Funding Requests</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/05/28/npe-funding-requests/</link>
      <description>Ask a Funder - What High Impact Funders Look for in Your Funding Requests

To be successful in non-profit fundraising you have to have a plan and a point of view that aligns your infrastructure and your vision. Having integrity, a stellar reputation, and the ability to execute what you promise on is vital to your organization's sustainability and long term growth. Without these key components developing and executing a successful fundraising strategy is nearly impossible.

Dr. Cathryn Dhanatya is Co-founder and President/CEO of Growing Good Inc., a professional services firm that partners with non-profit organizations and companies who aim to do good in the world. Cathryn has previously held key C-suite executive positions and board director and advisory positions for organizations in the areas of research, higher education, and across the non-profit sector tackling complex social issues from healthcare, education, diversity and gender equity, microfinance, green technology, and food insecurity. She has lived and worked on five continents; earned her Ph.D. in Social Science and Comparative Education from UCLA; and has led and conducted research on media and technology as it relates to health issues around the globe. She has been a keynote speaker at several international and domestic conferences, events, trainings, and featured in numerous media outlets and publications addressing the issues of non-profit leadership, funding, the future of philanthropy, health equity, diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice, women executives in the workplace, redefining success, and work life balance as a professional and mother.

https://www.growinggoodinc.com/ 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 May 2024 21:44:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Ask a Funder - What High Impact Funders Look for in Your Funding Requests</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Pitching to Funders</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Ask a Funder - What High Impact Funders Look for in Your Funding Requests

To be successful in non-profit fundraising you have to have a plan and a point of view that aligns your infrastructure and your vision. Having integrity, a stellar reputation, and the ability to execute what you promise on is vital to your organization's sustainability and long term growth. Without these key components developing and executing a successful fundraising strategy is nearly impossible.

Dr. Cathryn Dhanatya is Co-founder and President/CEO of Growing Good Inc., a professional services firm that partners with non-profit organizations and companies who aim to do good in the world. Cathryn has previously held key C-suite executive positions and board director and advisory positions for organizations in the areas of research, higher education, and across the non-profit sector tackling complex social issues from healthcare, education, diversity and gender equity, microfinance, green technology, and food insecurity. She has lived and worked on five continents; earned her Ph.D. in Social Science and Comparative Education from UCLA; and has led and conducted research on media and technology as it relates to health issues around the globe. She has been a keynote speaker at several international and domestic conferences, events, trainings, and featured in numerous media outlets and publications addressing the issues of non-profit leadership, funding, the future of philanthropy, health equity, diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice, women executives in the workplace, redefining success, and work life balance as a professional and mother.

https://www.growinggoodinc.com/ 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Ask a Funder - What High Impact Funders Look for in Your Funding Requests</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>To be successful in non-profit fundraising you have to have a plan and a point of view that aligns your infrastructure and your vision. Having integrity, a stellar reputation, and the ability to execute what you promise on is vital to your organization's sustainability and long term growth. Without these key components developing and executing a successful fundraising strategy is nearly impossible.</p><p><br></p><p>Dr. Cathryn Dhanatya is Co-founder and President/CEO of Growing Good Inc., a professional services firm that partners with non-profit organizations and companies who aim to do good in the world. Cathryn has previously held key C-suite executive positions and board director and advisory positions for organizations in the areas of research, higher education, and across the non-profit sector tackling complex social issues from healthcare, education, diversity and gender equity, microfinance, green technology, and food insecurity. She has lived and worked on five continents; earned her Ph.D. in Social Science and Comparative Education from UCLA; and has led and conducted research on media and technology as it relates to health issues around the globe. She has been a keynote speaker at several international and domestic conferences, events, trainings, and featured in numerous media outlets and publications addressing the issues of non-profit leadership, funding, the future of philanthropy, health equity, diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice, women executives in the workplace, redefining success, and work life balance as a professional and mother.</p><p><br></p><p><a href="https://www.growinggoodinc.com/">https://www.growinggoodinc.com/</a> </p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1833</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Unleash Your Leadership Superpowers</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=9293&amp;action=edit</link>
      <description>Unleash Your Leadership Superpowers 
Bishop Warner H. Brown is a retired bishop of The United Methodist Church, serving from 2000 to 2016.  He is currently serving as an interim bishop of the Sierra Leone Episcopal Area in the West Africa Central Conference.    
From 2014 to 2016, Bishop Brown was the President of the Council of Bishops. ------------------------
  Bishop Brown was born and raised as an only child in Baltimore, Maryland, the son of Ida and Warner Brown. At the age of thirteen, while reading the New Testament, he felt a call to serve. He began preaching as a youth and was encouraged to continue doing so. As a young adult, he attended the University of Maryland, (B.A. in Sociology, 1969.) He also graduated from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC with a Master of Divinity degree.  

In 1973 Warner was ordained deacon in the Baltimore Annual Conference by Bishop James K. Mathews. Yet his movement west had already begun with a pastoral appointment in the Western Pennsylvania Annual Conference as both the pastor of a church and Director of Bethany House Ministries in Pittsburgh, a social service ministry for two housing projects. While serving in western Pennsylvania, he was ordained elder in 1975 by Bishop Roy C. Nichols. In 1979, he answered a national search for an associate conference staff position in the California-Nevada Conference and transferred there. Once in California, it was only six months later that he was asked to serve as Conference Council Director.  

From this role of program and administrative oversight for the Conference, Warner was appointed just four years later to the Superintendency of the Golden Gate District, the richly diverse area including San Francisco and several rural and suburban counties along the Pacific Coast. Four years after that, he was given the charge of the Taylor Memorial UMC in Oakland, CA. While serving this significant congregation, the community was then assaulted by the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake and two years later the holocaust of fires in the Oakland hills. As chairperson of the Oakland Inter-religious Network for responding to this disaster, Warner led the community's ecumenical disaster response.  

Throughout these years, Warner has been active in the social justice ministries and programs of those communities and church connections where he has been appointed. To list but a sampling: Volunteer Police Chaplain, Trustee of the Glide Foundation, vice-chair of the Community Advisory Commission for Alameda County Medical Center, member of the Governing Board of United Way for Kern County, a member of the. Board of Directors for the Bakersfield Homeless Shelter, recipient of the 1996 Outstanding Leadership and Service Award for Emergency Response Ministries, given by UMCOR, and recipient of a 1998 Special Congressional Recognition from Congresswoman Barbara Lee.
  Warner's leadership in the church has included service as a delegate to General Conference twice, member of the General Commission on Religion and Race, a faculty member for New DS/CCD training, Harry Hoosier Member of and twice the host for the National Black Methodists for Church Renewal, chair of the Board of Missions in California-Nevada Annual Conference as well as numerous other conference boards and agencies, adjunct consultant to the Alban Institute, and a Wesley Seminary Distinguished Alumni.
  Following a successful eleven-year pastorate in Oakland, Warner was given a new challenge as Senior Pastor of the predominantly white yet multi-ethnic First UMC of Bakersfield, CA. Only two years into this pastorate, he was nominated and endorsed by his conference for the episcopacy: at the Western Jurisdiction Conference Sessions in Casper, Wyoming, and in July of 2000 he was elected to the episcopacy on the 19th ballot and assigned to the Denver Area. He retired in July 2016.  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2024 02:12:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Unleash Your Leadership Superpowers</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leadership With Bishop Warner Brown</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Unleash Your Leadership Superpowers 
Bishop Warner H. Brown is a retired bishop of The United Methodist Church, serving from 2000 to 2016.  He is currently serving as an interim bishop of the Sierra Leone Episcopal Area in the West Africa Central Conference.    
From 2014 to 2016, Bishop Brown was the President of the Council of Bishops. ------------------------
  Bishop Brown was born and raised as an only child in Baltimore, Maryland, the son of Ida and Warner Brown. At the age of thirteen, while reading the New Testament, he felt a call to serve. He began preaching as a youth and was encouraged to continue doing so. As a young adult, he attended the University of Maryland, (B.A. in Sociology, 1969.) He also graduated from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC with a Master of Divinity degree.  

In 1973 Warner was ordained deacon in the Baltimore Annual Conference by Bishop James K. Mathews. Yet his movement west had already begun with a pastoral appointment in the Western Pennsylvania Annual Conference as both the pastor of a church and Director of Bethany House Ministries in Pittsburgh, a social service ministry for two housing projects. While serving in western Pennsylvania, he was ordained elder in 1975 by Bishop Roy C. Nichols. In 1979, he answered a national search for an associate conference staff position in the California-Nevada Conference and transferred there. Once in California, it was only six months later that he was asked to serve as Conference Council Director.  

From this role of program and administrative oversight for the Conference, Warner was appointed just four years later to the Superintendency of the Golden Gate District, the richly diverse area including San Francisco and several rural and suburban counties along the Pacific Coast. Four years after that, he was given the charge of the Taylor Memorial UMC in Oakland, CA. While serving this significant congregation, the community was then assaulted by the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake and two years later the holocaust of fires in the Oakland hills. As chairperson of the Oakland Inter-religious Network for responding to this disaster, Warner led the community's ecumenical disaster response.  

Throughout these years, Warner has been active in the social justice ministries and programs of those communities and church connections where he has been appointed. To list but a sampling: Volunteer Police Chaplain, Trustee of the Glide Foundation, vice-chair of the Community Advisory Commission for Alameda County Medical Center, member of the Governing Board of United Way for Kern County, a member of the. Board of Directors for the Bakersfield Homeless Shelter, recipient of the 1996 Outstanding Leadership and Service Award for Emergency Response Ministries, given by UMCOR, and recipient of a 1998 Special Congressional Recognition from Congresswoman Barbara Lee.
  Warner's leadership in the church has included service as a delegate to General Conference twice, member of the General Commission on Religion and Race, a faculty member for New DS/CCD training, Harry Hoosier Member of and twice the host for the National Black Methodists for Church Renewal, chair of the Board of Missions in California-Nevada Annual Conference as well as numerous other conference boards and agencies, adjunct consultant to the Alban Institute, and a Wesley Seminary Distinguished Alumni.
  Following a successful eleven-year pastorate in Oakland, Warner was given a new challenge as Senior Pastor of the predominantly white yet multi-ethnic First UMC of Bakersfield, CA. Only two years into this pastorate, he was nominated and endorsed by his conference for the episcopacy: at the Western Jurisdiction Conference Sessions in Casper, Wyoming, and in July of 2000 he was elected to the episcopacy on the 19th ballot and assigned to the Denver Area. He retired in July 2016.  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Unleash Your Leadership Superpowers </strong></h1><p>Bishop Warner H. Brown is a retired bishop of The United Methodist Church, serving from 2000 to 2016.  He is currently serving as an interim bishop of the Sierra Leone Episcopal Area in the West Africa Central Conference.    </p><p>From 2014 to 2016, Bishop Brown was the President of the Council of Bishops. ------------------------</p><p>  Bishop Brown was born and raised as an only child in Baltimore, Maryland, the son of Ida and Warner Brown. At the age of thirteen, while reading the New Testament, he felt a call to serve. He began preaching as a youth and was encouraged to continue doing so. As a young adult, he attended the University of Maryland, (B.A. in Sociology, 1969.) He also graduated from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC with a Master of Divinity degree.  </p><p><br></p><p>In 1973 Warner was ordained deacon in the Baltimore Annual Conference by Bishop James K. Mathews. Yet his movement west had already begun with a pastoral appointment in the Western Pennsylvania Annual Conference as both the pastor of a church and Director of Bethany House Ministries in Pittsburgh, a social service ministry for two housing projects. While serving in western Pennsylvania, he was ordained elder in 1975 by Bishop Roy C. Nichols. In 1979, he answered a national search for an associate conference staff position in the California-Nevada Conference and transferred there. Once in California, it was only six months later that he was asked to serve as Conference Council Director.  </p><p><br></p><p>From this role of program and administrative oversight for the Conference, Warner was appointed just four years later to the Superintendency of the Golden Gate District, the richly diverse area including San Francisco and several rural and suburban counties along the Pacific Coast. Four years after that, he was given the charge of the Taylor Memorial UMC in Oakland, CA. While serving this significant congregation, the community was then assaulted by the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake and two years later the holocaust of fires in the Oakland hills. As chairperson of the Oakland Inter-religious Network for responding to this disaster, Warner led the community's ecumenical disaster response.  </p><p><br></p><p>Throughout these years, Warner has been active in the social justice ministries and programs of those communities and church connections where he has been appointed. To list but a sampling: Volunteer Police Chaplain, Trustee of the Glide Foundation, vice-chair of the Community Advisory Commission for Alameda County Medical Center, member of the Governing Board of United Way for Kern County, a member of the. Board of Directors for the Bakersfield Homeless Shelter, recipient of the 1996 Outstanding Leadership and Service Award for Emergency Response Ministries, given by UMCOR, and recipient of a 1998 Special Congressional Recognition from Congresswoman Barbara Lee.</p><p>  Warner's leadership in the church has included service as a delegate to General Conference twice, member of the General Commission on Religion and Race, a faculty member for New DS/CCD training, Harry Hoosier Member of and twice the host for the National Black Methodists for Church Renewal, chair of the Board of Missions in California-Nevada Annual Conference as well as numerous other conference boards and agencies, adjunct consultant to the Alban Institute, and a Wesley Seminary Distinguished Alumni.</p><p>  Following a successful eleven-year pastorate in Oakland, Warner was given a new challenge as Senior Pastor of the predominantly white yet multi-ethnic First UMC of Bakersfield, CA. Only two years into this pastorate, he was nominated and endorsed by his conference for the episcopacy: at the Western Jurisdiction Conference Sessions in Casper, Wyoming, and in July of 2000 he was elected to the episcopacy on the 19th ballot and assigned to the Denver Area. He retired in July 2016.  </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1744</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Stop selling ice to eskimos! Give sponsors what they really need!</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/05/14/npe-supporting-sponsors/</link>
      <description>Stop selling ice to Eskimos! Give sponsors what they really need!

Let me show you how to increase event profits by turning your experiential event photography from an expense to be paid into an asset to be sold! If your EEP (that tired Photo Booth in the back) isn't a vibrant, vital front-line asset that showcases your guests, highlights your sponsors, and expands your social reach while generating additional income for your non-profit, you are doing it WRONG! Let me expand your ideas concerning EEP's and how to identify best practices for your events.

Randy Long is the owner of The Pix Squad, a professional event photography company specializing in corporate gatherings, golf outings, and charity galas. The Pix Squad’s Mobile Pix Cart has turned golf photography upside down and is welcomed by PGA, LPGA, and PGA Canada tournaments as well as hundreds of local tournaments. The Mobile Pix Cart led The Pix Squad to work with 24 pro sports figures such as Von Miller, Ron Jaworski, Patrick Williams and Darren Waller, further bolstering their fundraising galas and events coast to coast, creating a measurable increase in philanthropic donations through the heightened level of entertainment they provide. With a degree in theatre and extensive event management experience, Randy and his Squad leveraged that experience to produce jaw-dropping photo experiences to increase sponsorship income and extend social reach. Randy was first a small-town newspaper reporter/photographer who translated his experience into opportunity when he took a side gig as a mall Santa to pay for his family's holiday spending. Frustrated with the experience, Randy created Santa Magic (shopping center Santa/Easter Photo) and later The Pix Squad. Huge corporate clients like Microsoft, United Way, Bell Bank, and Great Clips, have also used The Pix Squad to increase brand awareness, corporate goodwill, or employee engagement at their events. One of Randy’s proudest accomplishments as a business owner is his Squad Members who often get job offers from Pix Squad clients due to their enthusiasm and work ethic.

More information at - https://thepixsquad.com 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2024 21:03:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Stop selling ice to eskimos! Give sponsors what they really need!</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Maximizing Sponsorships</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Stop selling ice to Eskimos! Give sponsors what they really need!

Let me show you how to increase event profits by turning your experiential event photography from an expense to be paid into an asset to be sold! If your EEP (that tired Photo Booth in the back) isn't a vibrant, vital front-line asset that showcases your guests, highlights your sponsors, and expands your social reach while generating additional income for your non-profit, you are doing it WRONG! Let me expand your ideas concerning EEP's and how to identify best practices for your events.

Randy Long is the owner of The Pix Squad, a professional event photography company specializing in corporate gatherings, golf outings, and charity galas. The Pix Squad’s Mobile Pix Cart has turned golf photography upside down and is welcomed by PGA, LPGA, and PGA Canada tournaments as well as hundreds of local tournaments. The Mobile Pix Cart led The Pix Squad to work with 24 pro sports figures such as Von Miller, Ron Jaworski, Patrick Williams and Darren Waller, further bolstering their fundraising galas and events coast to coast, creating a measurable increase in philanthropic donations through the heightened level of entertainment they provide. With a degree in theatre and extensive event management experience, Randy and his Squad leveraged that experience to produce jaw-dropping photo experiences to increase sponsorship income and extend social reach. Randy was first a small-town newspaper reporter/photographer who translated his experience into opportunity when he took a side gig as a mall Santa to pay for his family's holiday spending. Frustrated with the experience, Randy created Santa Magic (shopping center Santa/Easter Photo) and later The Pix Squad. Huge corporate clients like Microsoft, United Way, Bell Bank, and Great Clips, have also used The Pix Squad to increase brand awareness, corporate goodwill, or employee engagement at their events. One of Randy’s proudest accomplishments as a business owner is his Squad Members who often get job offers from Pix Squad clients due to their enthusiasm and work ethic.

More information at - https://thepixsquad.com 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Stop selling ice to Eskimos! Give sponsors what they really need!</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>Let me show you how to increase event profits by turning your experiential event photography from an expense to be paid into an asset to be sold! If your EEP (that tired Photo Booth in the back) isn't a vibrant, vital front-line asset that showcases your guests, highlights your sponsors, and expands your social reach while generating additional income for your non-profit, you are doing it WRONG! Let me expand your ideas concerning EEP's and how to identify best practices for your events.</p><p><br></p><p>Randy Long is the owner of The Pix Squad, a professional event photography company specializing in corporate gatherings, golf outings, and charity galas. The Pix Squad’s Mobile Pix Cart has turned golf photography upside down and is welcomed by PGA, LPGA, and PGA Canada tournaments as well as hundreds of local tournaments. The Mobile Pix Cart led The Pix Squad to work with 24 pro sports figures such as Von Miller, Ron Jaworski, Patrick Williams and Darren Waller, further bolstering their fundraising galas and events coast to coast, creating a measurable increase in philanthropic donations through the heightened level of entertainment they provide. With a degree in theatre and extensive event management experience, Randy and his Squad leveraged that experience to produce jaw-dropping photo experiences to increase sponsorship income and extend social reach. Randy was first a small-town newspaper reporter/photographer who translated his experience into opportunity when he took a side gig as a mall Santa to pay for his family's holiday spending. Frustrated with the experience, Randy created Santa Magic (shopping center Santa/Easter Photo) and later The Pix Squad. Huge corporate clients like Microsoft, United Way, Bell Bank, and Great Clips, have also used The Pix Squad to increase brand awareness, corporate goodwill, or employee engagement at their events. One of Randy’s proudest accomplishments as a business owner is his Squad Members who often get job offers from Pix Squad clients due to their enthusiasm and work ethic.</p><p><br></p><p>More information at - <a href="https://thepixsquad.com">https://thepixsquad.com</a> </p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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    <item>
      <title>The Secrets to Increasing Your Nonprofit Strength and Sustainability</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/05/07/npe-nonprofit-sustainability/</link>
      <description>The Secrets to Increasing Your Nonprofit Strength and Sustainability

As a nonprofit leader for over 30 years, I love helping nonprofits with their governance, strategy, and long-term sustainability. The keys to long-term success in a nonprofit organization are a clear vision and strategy, an effective board, efficient operations, and building a sustainable business model.

About Jennifer Drago, LFACHE, MHSA, MBA. For over 30 years, Jennifer served as a corporate strategist, operations executive, and award-winning planner. Her work has helped healthcare, senior living, and nonprofit organizations implement a laser-focused vision and data-driven strategies to guide their growth. She has a track record of launching innovative programs in a fiscally responsible manner, including a nationally recognized care transitions program. Today, she serves as a strategy consultant, helping organizations to increase efficiencies and profits while amplifying their impact. Her expertise includes executive leadership, strategic planning, business or service line planning, feasibility analyses, governance and board development, process improvement, performance analytics, and marketing. She is a national speaker, facilitator, best-selling author, and Senior Living Visionaries podcast host. Jen holds a bachelor's degree in Finance, a master's degree in Business Administration and a master's degree in Health Services Administration from Arizona State University. She is also a Life Fellow of the American College of Healthcare Executives, a certified Nonprofit Board Consultant (BoardSource), a certified Mastery Method Coach (Institute of Coaching Mastery), and a Lifecycles Capacity Consultant (Nonprofit Lifecycles Institute).

More information at https://www.peaktoprofit.com 

Free Board Assessment - https://www.peaktoprofit.com/board
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2024 21:20:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Secrets to Increasing Your Nonprofit Strength and Sustainability</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Jennifer Drago</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Secrets to Increasing Your Nonprofit Strength and Sustainability

As a nonprofit leader for over 30 years, I love helping nonprofits with their governance, strategy, and long-term sustainability. The keys to long-term success in a nonprofit organization are a clear vision and strategy, an effective board, efficient operations, and building a sustainable business model.

About Jennifer Drago, LFACHE, MHSA, MBA. For over 30 years, Jennifer served as a corporate strategist, operations executive, and award-winning planner. Her work has helped healthcare, senior living, and nonprofit organizations implement a laser-focused vision and data-driven strategies to guide their growth. She has a track record of launching innovative programs in a fiscally responsible manner, including a nationally recognized care transitions program. Today, she serves as a strategy consultant, helping organizations to increase efficiencies and profits while amplifying their impact. Her expertise includes executive leadership, strategic planning, business or service line planning, feasibility analyses, governance and board development, process improvement, performance analytics, and marketing. She is a national speaker, facilitator, best-selling author, and Senior Living Visionaries podcast host. Jen holds a bachelor's degree in Finance, a master's degree in Business Administration and a master's degree in Health Services Administration from Arizona State University. She is also a Life Fellow of the American College of Healthcare Executives, a certified Nonprofit Board Consultant (BoardSource), a certified Mastery Method Coach (Institute of Coaching Mastery), and a Lifecycles Capacity Consultant (Nonprofit Lifecycles Institute).

More information at https://www.peaktoprofit.com 

Free Board Assessment - https://www.peaktoprofit.com/board
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>The Secrets to Increasing Your Nonprofit Strength and Sustainability</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>As a nonprofit leader for over 30 years, I love helping nonprofits with their governance, strategy, and long-term sustainability. The keys to long-term success in a nonprofit organization are a clear vision and strategy, an effective board, efficient operations, and building a sustainable business model.</p><p><br></p><p>About <strong>Jennifer Drago</strong>, LFACHE, MHSA, MBA. For over 30 years, Jennifer served as a corporate strategist, operations executive, and award-winning planner. Her work has helped healthcare, senior living, and nonprofit organizations implement a laser-focused vision and data-driven strategies to guide their growth. She has a track record of launching innovative programs in a fiscally responsible manner, including a nationally recognized care transitions program. Today, she serves as a strategy consultant, helping organizations to increase efficiencies and profits while amplifying their impact. Her expertise includes executive leadership, strategic planning, business or service line planning, feasibility analyses, governance and board development, process improvement, performance analytics, and marketing. She is a national speaker, facilitator, best-selling author, and Senior Living Visionaries podcast host. Jen holds a bachelor's degree in Finance, a master's degree in Business Administration and a master's degree in Health Services Administration from Arizona State University. She is also a Life Fellow of the American College of Healthcare Executives, a certified Nonprofit Board Consultant (BoardSource), a certified Mastery Method Coach (Institute of Coaching Mastery), and a Lifecycles Capacity Consultant (Nonprofit Lifecycles Institute).</p><p><br></p><p>More information at <a href="https://www.peaktoprofit.com">https://www.peaktoprofit.com</a> </p><p><br></p><p>Free Board Assessment - <a href="https://www.peaktoprofit.com/board">https://www.peaktoprofit.com/board</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1687</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7323290730.mp3?updated=1715117158" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why Marketing is a Nonprofit's Secret Weapon</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/04/30/npe-nonprofit-marketing/</link>
      <description>Why Marketing is a Nonprofit's Secret Weapon

Having been in the field of marketing for almost 35 years, with a focus on working with nonprofits, she has learned the importance of branding and having stellar marketing materials. When potential donors of today evaluate charities within seconds of being exposed to the organization, it can make or break a nonprofit without them not even realizing it!

For nearly 35 years, Vicky Winkler has been deeply immersed in marketing, specializing in assisting businesses and nonprofits with enhancing their branding, creating captivating marketing materials, and executing top-notch print work. With a career journey that has taken her through all facets of the marketing world, Vicky has held corporate, nonprofit, education, and entrepreneur marketing positions.

More at https://www.tms.marketing 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2024 21:29:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Why Marketing is a Nonprofit's Secret Weapon</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Make Your Brand Work</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Why Marketing is a Nonprofit's Secret Weapon

Having been in the field of marketing for almost 35 years, with a focus on working with nonprofits, she has learned the importance of branding and having stellar marketing materials. When potential donors of today evaluate charities within seconds of being exposed to the organization, it can make or break a nonprofit without them not even realizing it!

For nearly 35 years, Vicky Winkler has been deeply immersed in marketing, specializing in assisting businesses and nonprofits with enhancing their branding, creating captivating marketing materials, and executing top-notch print work. With a career journey that has taken her through all facets of the marketing world, Vicky has held corporate, nonprofit, education, and entrepreneur marketing positions.

More at https://www.tms.marketing 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Why Marketing is a Nonprofit's Secret Weapon</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>Having been in the field of marketing for almost 35 years, with a focus on working with nonprofits, she has learned the importance of branding and having stellar marketing materials. When potential donors of today evaluate charities within seconds of being exposed to the organization, it can make or break a nonprofit without them not even realizing it!</p><p><br></p><p>For nearly 35 years, Vicky Winkler has been deeply immersed in marketing, specializing in assisting businesses and nonprofits with enhancing their branding, creating captivating marketing materials, and executing top-notch print work. With a career journey that has taken her through all facets of the marketing world, Vicky has held corporate, nonprofit, education, and entrepreneur marketing positions.</p><p><br></p><p>More at <a href="https://www.tms.marketing">https://www.tms.marketing</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1664</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[b4ae5e40-0738-11ef-97c4-b3671afd88b0]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5684003869.mp3?updated=1714512861" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Your REAL Life: Building Authentic Resilience for a Joyful Life</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/04/23/npe-your-real-life/</link>
      <description>Your REAL Life: Building Authentic Resilience for a Joyful Life

Change is the one constant we can guarantee to experience throughout our lifetime. Nate’s REAL model enables all people to build their personal superpower of authentic resilience. By using the REAL Model for growing “authentic resilience” — individuals, business leaders in for-profit/non-profit, and even clergy members— everyone can get clear guidance on overcoming life's obstacles. A practical field guide that was built to be used over and over, Nate's book (Your REAL Life and its message) is to Get REAL. Authentically resilient people use four key ingredients in living a life of joy and well-being: They know how to move through the Reality curve. They focus their Energy. They are Authentic and often use their purpose to help them navigate hard things. And finally, they lead their lives with Love. These pillars are an exceptional lens and tool to gauge life's struggles and to navigate adversity. They are ultimately, leading to an empowered life.
Global Citizen Nathan (“Nate”) Andres has ridden life’s change roller-coaster and is often asked about the secret to his resiliency. Between enduring 9/11, record-breaking earthquakes, and tsunamis to discrimination and loss, Nate’s built a reputation for getting through the hard knocks of life. After years of research, education, practice, and reflection, he’s not only found the answer but turned it into a formula anyone can use. His REAL Model helps people develop "authentic resilience" which can become a superpower in fighting adversity and leading a life of wellbeing and joy. A seasoned HR executive with more than 25 years of experience around the world and across business sectors, Nate is an author, coach, well-being, and LGBTQ activist — “OUT” there in the world helping people make change— within themselves and in their communities.

More information - www.nathanandres.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2024 20:53:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Your REAL Life: Building Authentic Resilience for a Joyful Life</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Authentic resilience with Nathan Andres</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Your REAL Life: Building Authentic Resilience for a Joyful Life

Change is the one constant we can guarantee to experience throughout our lifetime. Nate’s REAL model enables all people to build their personal superpower of authentic resilience. By using the REAL Model for growing “authentic resilience” — individuals, business leaders in for-profit/non-profit, and even clergy members— everyone can get clear guidance on overcoming life's obstacles. A practical field guide that was built to be used over and over, Nate's book (Your REAL Life and its message) is to Get REAL. Authentically resilient people use four key ingredients in living a life of joy and well-being: They know how to move through the Reality curve. They focus their Energy. They are Authentic and often use their purpose to help them navigate hard things. And finally, they lead their lives with Love. These pillars are an exceptional lens and tool to gauge life's struggles and to navigate adversity. They are ultimately, leading to an empowered life.
Global Citizen Nathan (“Nate”) Andres has ridden life’s change roller-coaster and is often asked about the secret to his resiliency. Between enduring 9/11, record-breaking earthquakes, and tsunamis to discrimination and loss, Nate’s built a reputation for getting through the hard knocks of life. After years of research, education, practice, and reflection, he’s not only found the answer but turned it into a formula anyone can use. His REAL Model helps people develop "authentic resilience" which can become a superpower in fighting adversity and leading a life of wellbeing and joy. A seasoned HR executive with more than 25 years of experience around the world and across business sectors, Nate is an author, coach, well-being, and LGBTQ activist — “OUT” there in the world helping people make change— within themselves and in their communities.

More information - www.nathanandres.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Your REAL Life: Building Authentic Resilience for a Joyful Life</h1><p><br></p><p>Change is the one constant we can guarantee to experience throughout our lifetime. Nate’s REAL model enables all people to build their personal superpower of authentic resilience. By using the REAL Model for growing “authentic resilience” — individuals, business leaders in for-profit/non-profit, and even clergy members— everyone can get clear guidance on overcoming life's obstacles. A practical field guide that was built to be used over and over, Nate's book (Your REAL Life and its message) is to Get REAL. Authentically resilient people use four key ingredients in living a life of joy and well-being: They know how to move through the Reality curve. They focus their Energy. They are Authentic and often use their purpose to help them navigate hard things. And finally, they lead their lives with Love. These pillars are an exceptional lens and tool to gauge life's struggles and to navigate adversity. They are ultimately, leading to an empowered life.</p><p>Global Citizen Nathan (“Nate”) Andres has ridden life’s change roller-coaster and is often asked about the secret to his resiliency. Between enduring 9/11, record-breaking earthquakes, and tsunamis to discrimination and loss, Nate’s built a reputation for getting through the hard knocks of life. After years of research, education, practice, and reflection, he’s not only found the answer but turned it into a formula anyone can use. His REAL Model helps people develop "authentic resilience" which can become a superpower in fighting adversity and leading a life of wellbeing and joy. A seasoned HR executive with more than 25 years of experience around the world and across business sectors, Nate is an author, coach, well-being, and LGBTQ activist — “OUT” there in the world helping people make change— within themselves and in their communities.</p><p><br></p><p>More information - <a href="http://www.nathanandres.com">www.nathanandres.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1511</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[7d7e2818-01b3-11ef-81dc-af9cd84a8a0d]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6688622307.mp3?updated=1713905889" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Buy Back Time Through Smart Delegation</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/04/16/npe-delegation/</link>
      <description>Buy Back Time through Smart Delegation

Mike Abramowitz has 20 years of direct sales experience training 5000+ sales reps for $17M sold, has 9 books in the self-help space, and founded PB&amp;J for Tampa Bay. He has scaled his several six-figure businesses and nonprofits to be run without him so he can experience time freedom that he desires. He’s a busy father and husband who helps other busy entrepreneurs implement systems in their businesses by leveraging automation and delegation to help business operators become business owners and truly experience the financial and time freedom that drew them to entrepreneurship in the first place. He has a podcast called “The Better Than Rich Rich” Show and a community called Automate, Delegate, Systemize.

We explore the profound impact of your work on communities and individuals through delegation. Join us as we delve into insightful conversations, share inspiring stories, and uncover strategies to enhance your efforts in making a difference. Your dedication is invaluable; together, we'll amplify your voices and contributions.
10.

https://www.betterthanrich.com/ 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 Apr 2024 19:57:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Buy Back Time Through Smart Delegation</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Grow Your Delegation Skills</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Buy Back Time through Smart Delegation

Mike Abramowitz has 20 years of direct sales experience training 5000+ sales reps for $17M sold, has 9 books in the self-help space, and founded PB&amp;J for Tampa Bay. He has scaled his several six-figure businesses and nonprofits to be run without him so he can experience time freedom that he desires. He’s a busy father and husband who helps other busy entrepreneurs implement systems in their businesses by leveraging automation and delegation to help business operators become business owners and truly experience the financial and time freedom that drew them to entrepreneurship in the first place. He has a podcast called “The Better Than Rich Rich” Show and a community called Automate, Delegate, Systemize.

We explore the profound impact of your work on communities and individuals through delegation. Join us as we delve into insightful conversations, share inspiring stories, and uncover strategies to enhance your efforts in making a difference. Your dedication is invaluable; together, we'll amplify your voices and contributions.
10.

https://www.betterthanrich.com/ 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Buy Back Time through Smart Delegation</h1><p><br></p><p>Mike Abramowitz has 20 years of direct sales experience training 5000+ sales reps for $17M sold, has 9 books in the self-help space, and founded PB&amp;J for Tampa Bay. He has scaled his several six-figure businesses and nonprofits to be run without him so he can experience time freedom that he desires. He’s a busy father and husband who helps other busy entrepreneurs implement systems in their businesses by leveraging automation and delegation to help business operators become business owners and truly experience the financial and time freedom that drew them to entrepreneurship in the first place. He has a podcast called “The Better Than Rich Rich” Show and a community called Automate, Delegate, Systemize.</p><p><br></p><p>We explore the profound impact of your work on communities and individuals through delegation. Join us as we delve into insightful conversations, share inspiring stories, and uncover strategies to enhance your efforts in making a difference. Your dedication is invaluable; together, we'll amplify your voices and contributions.</p><p>10.</p><p><br></p><p><a href="https://www.betterthanrich.com/">https://www.betterthanrich.com/</a> </p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1757</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[7df810ca-fc2b-11ee-9246-03b993461770]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9089591183.mp3?updated=1713297724" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Connecting with High-Level Decision Makers for Corporate Sponsorship </title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/04/09/npe-corporate-sponsorship/</link>
      <description>Connecting with High-Level Decision Makers for Corporate Sponsorship 

No matter your nonprofit size, corporations are interested in hearing about and possibly supporting your good work.
Lori Zoss Kraska, MBA, CFRE, Founder and CEO of Growth Owl, LLC, is a renowned expert in securing corporate sponsorships for associations and purpose-driven organizations. With a strong track record, she conducts impactful sponsorship training, guiding leaders in engaging C-suite decision-makers. Lori's leadership spans PBS/NPR, DAC Group, I Heart Media, and the University of Phoenix. She is a sought-after speaker and workshop leader who shares her expertise on corporate sponsorships at national conferences and podcasts. Holding an MBA in Systems Management from Baldwin Wallace University and a CFRE certification, Lori empowers organizations to thrive in the corporate sponsorship landscape.

More at - https://www.thegrowthowl.com/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Apr 2024 19:35:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Connecting with High-Level Decision Makers for Corporate Sponsorship </itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Lori Zoss Kraska</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Connecting with High-Level Decision Makers for Corporate Sponsorship 

No matter your nonprofit size, corporations are interested in hearing about and possibly supporting your good work.
Lori Zoss Kraska, MBA, CFRE, Founder and CEO of Growth Owl, LLC, is a renowned expert in securing corporate sponsorships for associations and purpose-driven organizations. With a strong track record, she conducts impactful sponsorship training, guiding leaders in engaging C-suite decision-makers. Lori's leadership spans PBS/NPR, DAC Group, I Heart Media, and the University of Phoenix. She is a sought-after speaker and workshop leader who shares her expertise on corporate sponsorships at national conferences and podcasts. Holding an MBA in Systems Management from Baldwin Wallace University and a CFRE certification, Lori empowers organizations to thrive in the corporate sponsorship landscape.

More at - https://www.thegrowthowl.com/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Connecting with High-Level Decision Makers for Corporate Sponsorship </strong></h1><p><br></p><p>No matter your nonprofit size, corporations are interested in hearing about and possibly supporting your good work.</p><p>Lori Zoss Kraska, MBA, CFRE, Founder and CEO of Growth Owl, LLC, is a renowned expert in securing corporate sponsorships for associations and purpose-driven organizations. With a strong track record, she conducts impactful sponsorship training, guiding leaders in engaging C-suite decision-makers. Lori's leadership spans PBS/NPR, DAC Group, I Heart Media, and the University of Phoenix. She is a sought-after speaker and workshop leader who shares her expertise on corporate sponsorships at national conferences and podcasts. Holding an MBA in Systems Management from Baldwin Wallace University and a CFRE certification, Lori empowers organizations to thrive in the corporate sponsorship landscape.</p><p><br></p><p>More at - <a href="https://www.thegrowthowl.com/">https://www.thegrowthowl.com/</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1702</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[4c9637f6-f6a8-11ee-9b61-db5efe9cae57]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1647311145.mp3?updated=1712691620" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Cubicle to Corner Office: The Ultimate Survival Guide to Your First Job!</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/04/02/npe-job-survival-guide/</link>
      <description>Cubicle to Corner Office: The Ultimate Survival Guide to Your First Job!
Mike Halpert is a product management executive with over 20 years of experience at technology firms such as Walmart ECommerce, Google and Thrasio. He has an MBA from the USC Marshall School of Business. In addition to his day job, Mike enjoys coaching and mentoring early career talent.
Professionalism and soft skills are applicable whether you are in a Fortune 500 company or working for a small non-profit. These foundational skills ensure that everyone on your team is effective and accountable to each other to get the job done.
More at - https://firstjoboutofcollege.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 02 Apr 2024 21:37:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Cubicle to Corner Office: The Ultimate Survival Guide to Your First Job!</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Being Your Best</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Cubicle to Corner Office: The Ultimate Survival Guide to Your First Job!
Mike Halpert is a product management executive with over 20 years of experience at technology firms such as Walmart ECommerce, Google and Thrasio. He has an MBA from the USC Marshall School of Business. In addition to his day job, Mike enjoys coaching and mentoring early career talent.
Professionalism and soft skills are applicable whether you are in a Fortune 500 company or working for a small non-profit. These foundational skills ensure that everyone on your team is effective and accountable to each other to get the job done.
More at - https://firstjoboutofcollege.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Cubicle to Corner Office: The Ultimate Survival Guide to Your First Job!</strong></h1><p>Mike Halpert is a product management executive with over 20 years of experience at technology firms such as Walmart ECommerce, Google and Thrasio. He has an MBA from the USC Marshall School of Business. In addition to his day job, Mike enjoys coaching and mentoring early career talent.</p><p>Professionalism and soft skills are applicable whether you are in a Fortune 500 company or working for a small non-profit. These foundational skills ensure that everyone on your team is effective and accountable to each other to get the job done.</p><p>More at - <a href="https://firstjoboutofcollege.com">https://firstjoboutofcollege.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1639</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[420af124-f139-11ee-937a-9729cfd38aa5]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6355400775.mp3?updated=1712094173" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Supercharge Your Grant Writing But Cutting Your Grant Writing Time by 70%</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/03/19/npe-grant-writing/</link>
      <description>Supercharge Your Grant Writing But Cutting Your Grant Writing Time by 70%
Anthony 'AJ' Joiner is no ordinary entrepreneur. With a creative spark that ignites galaxies, he's a force to be reckoned with in the realms of technology, entrepreneurship, and publishing and has an unwavering commitment to personal growth.
He is also the founder of the AI-powered software writing platform Blooksy.com which has unleashed a literary revolution.
Its features have earned the trust of almost 10 prestigious universities, dozens of K12 schools, the Atlanta Mayor's Office, and a legion of passionate wordsmiths.
Before building Blooksy, he built software for industry giants like the Centers for Disease Control, Delta Airlines, and the Georgia Department of Transportation.
More at https://www.blooksy.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 26 Mar 2024 21:24:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Supercharge Your Grant Writing But Cutting Your Grant Writing Time by 70%</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Founder AJ Joiner</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Supercharge Your Grant Writing But Cutting Your Grant Writing Time by 70%
Anthony 'AJ' Joiner is no ordinary entrepreneur. With a creative spark that ignites galaxies, he's a force to be reckoned with in the realms of technology, entrepreneurship, and publishing and has an unwavering commitment to personal growth.
He is also the founder of the AI-powered software writing platform Blooksy.com which has unleashed a literary revolution.
Its features have earned the trust of almost 10 prestigious universities, dozens of K12 schools, the Atlanta Mayor's Office, and a legion of passionate wordsmiths.
Before building Blooksy, he built software for industry giants like the Centers for Disease Control, Delta Airlines, and the Georgia Department of Transportation.
More at https://www.blooksy.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Supercharge Your Grant Writing But Cutting Your Grant Writing Time by 70%</strong></p><p><strong>Anthony 'AJ' Joiner</strong> is no ordinary entrepreneur. With a creative spark that ignites galaxies, he's a force to be reckoned with in the realms of technology, entrepreneurship, and publishing and has an unwavering commitment to personal growth.</p><p>He is also the founder of the AI-powered software writing platform Blooksy.com which has unleashed a literary revolution.</p><p>Its features have earned the trust of almost 10 prestigious universities, dozens of K12 schools, the Atlanta Mayor's Office, and a legion of passionate wordsmiths.</p><p>Before building Blooksy, he built software for industry giants like the Centers for Disease Control, Delta Airlines, and the Georgia Department of Transportation.</p><p>More at <a href="https://www.blooksy.com/">https://www.blooksy.com/</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1827</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4336407658.mp3?updated=1711488584" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>Listen To The Whispers - How to Be, Do, and Have More Without Giving Up The Success That Got You Here</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/03/19/npe-listen-to-the-whispers/</link>
      <description>Listen To The Whispers - How to Be, Do, and Have More Without Giving Up The Success That Got You Here
You know about The Whispers, but are you really listening or are you still putting them off for "someday," a day that isn't on the calendar? Pursuing what you're feeling pulled to do puts you in your purpose. Then, when you live aligned in that, you become a leader people can trust because they know what you stand for. From there, listening to those you're supporting, those following you, that's the start of Creating a Culture of Caring.
Dr. Wayne Pernell, the President of DynamicLeader, Inc. and recognized as the Exponential Success Coach, holds a doctoral degree in clinical psychology and specializes in executive coaching and leadership development across diverse organizations. He is an esteemed international speaker, a number-one best-selling author, and a highly sought elite mindstate coach.
https://www.WaynePernell.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Mar 2024 19:58:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Listen To The Whispers - How to Be, Do, and Have More Without Giving Up The Success That Got You Here</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dr. Wayne Pernell</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Listen To The Whispers - How to Be, Do, and Have More Without Giving Up The Success That Got You Here
You know about The Whispers, but are you really listening or are you still putting them off for "someday," a day that isn't on the calendar? Pursuing what you're feeling pulled to do puts you in your purpose. Then, when you live aligned in that, you become a leader people can trust because they know what you stand for. From there, listening to those you're supporting, those following you, that's the start of Creating a Culture of Caring.
Dr. Wayne Pernell, the President of DynamicLeader, Inc. and recognized as the Exponential Success Coach, holds a doctoral degree in clinical psychology and specializes in executive coaching and leadership development across diverse organizations. He is an esteemed international speaker, a number-one best-selling author, and a highly sought elite mindstate coach.
https://www.WaynePernell.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Listen To The Whispers - How to Be, Do, and Have More Without Giving Up The Success That Got You Here</strong></p><p>You know about The Whispers, but are you really listening or are you still putting them off for "someday," a day that isn't on the calendar? Pursuing what you're feeling pulled to do puts you in your purpose. Then, when you live aligned in that, you become a leader people can trust because they know what you stand for. From there, listening to those you're supporting, those following you, that's the start of Creating a Culture of Caring.</p><p>Dr. Wayne Pernell, the President of DynamicLeader, Inc. and recognized as the Exponential Success Coach, holds a doctoral degree in clinical psychology and specializes in executive coaching and leadership development across diverse organizations. He is an esteemed international speaker, a number-one best-selling author, and a highly sought elite mindstate coach.</p><p><a href="https://www.WaynePernell.com">https://www.WaynePernell.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1573</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9782012504.mp3?updated=1710878622" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>AI Risk and the AI Trust Council: The Geeks Are Getting Out of Hand</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/03/13/npe-ai-risk/</link>
      <description>AI Risk and the AI Trust Council: The Geeks Are Getting Out of Hand
Rather than AI this is our time to show our HI, or Human Intelligence. We are in a position to help heal the world and push forward toward an amazing future. The responsibility for how our collective future goes depends on each one of us acting responsibly during this time of massive change. It's the people's time to help shape the pro-human future that we can enjoy. The AI Trust Council welcomes a pro-human future led by humans.
CEO/ Founder of TheAITC.com Established the first-ever AI Trust Council in the United States, recruiting Emergency services personnel, Firefighters, Commercial Pilots, Air Traffic Controllers, and Humanitarians to help steer AI in a pro-human direction. 25 years of military experience: Apache attack helicopter pilot, contractor, and former enlisted soldier. 10 years as a Longbow Apache instructor for UAE, Kuwait, and Saudi militaries. Combat missions as Air Mission Commander in Afghanistan during Operation Enduring
More information at - https://theaitc.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 13 Mar 2024 19:30:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>AI Risk and the AI Trust Council: The Geeks Are Getting Out of Hand</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>AI Safety interview with Chris Wright</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>AI Risk and the AI Trust Council: The Geeks Are Getting Out of Hand
Rather than AI this is our time to show our HI, or Human Intelligence. We are in a position to help heal the world and push forward toward an amazing future. The responsibility for how our collective future goes depends on each one of us acting responsibly during this time of massive change. It's the people's time to help shape the pro-human future that we can enjoy. The AI Trust Council welcomes a pro-human future led by humans.
CEO/ Founder of TheAITC.com Established the first-ever AI Trust Council in the United States, recruiting Emergency services personnel, Firefighters, Commercial Pilots, Air Traffic Controllers, and Humanitarians to help steer AI in a pro-human direction. 25 years of military experience: Apache attack helicopter pilot, contractor, and former enlisted soldier. 10 years as a Longbow Apache instructor for UAE, Kuwait, and Saudi militaries. Combat missions as Air Mission Commander in Afghanistan during Operation Enduring
More information at - https://theaitc.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>AI Risk and the AI Trust Council: The Geeks Are Getting Out of Hand</strong></p><p>Rather than AI this is our time to show our HI, or Human Intelligence. We are in a position to help heal the world and push forward toward an amazing future. The responsibility for how our collective future goes depends on each one of us acting responsibly during this time of massive change. It's the people's time to help shape the pro-human future that we can enjoy. The AI Trust Council welcomes a pro-human future led by humans.</p><p>CEO/ Founder of TheAITC.com Established the first-ever AI Trust Council in the United States, recruiting Emergency services personnel, Firefighters, Commercial Pilots, Air Traffic Controllers, and Humanitarians to help steer AI in a pro-human direction. 25 years of military experience: Apache attack helicopter pilot, contractor, and former enlisted soldier. 10 years as a Longbow Apache instructor for UAE, Kuwait, and Saudi militaries. Combat missions as Air Mission Commander in Afghanistan during Operation Enduring</p><p>More information at - <a href="https://theaitc.com/">https://theaitc.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1581</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2cf426e4-e170-11ee-848e-bb55b83e6634]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6179684277.mp3?updated=1710358546" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Vibrant Vulnerability: The Changing Nature of Leadership for Nonprofits</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/03/05/npe-vibrant-vulnerability/</link>
      <description>Vibrant Vulnerability: The Changing Nature of Leadership for Nonprofits

The role of CEO, whether in healthcare or as leader of a church, is drastically changing to include being the "chief fundraising officer." The choice is not whether one likes the change, but rather whether or not one chooses to embrace the change.

Randall Hallett is the CEO and Founder of Hallett Philanthropy, a full-service philanthropy consulting firm. Having spent his entire career in philanthropy, Randall is passionate about helping organizations seek funding to meet their mission. He believes giving is good for one’s emotional and physical well-being. Before founding Hallett Philanthropy, Randall served as President and Principal Consultant for a large consulting firm. He oversaw all client programs on behalf of the 30+ person firm. The final four years of his seven-year tenure were the most profitable for the organization. Randall has worked with systems, hospitals, and medical centers here in the US and across the globe, including Intermountain Health System, Catholic Health Initiatives (CHI) System, Dignity Health System, AdventHealth System, Indiana University Health System, University of California Irvine, Baylor University Medical Center, University of Missouri, University of Miami, Marshfield Clinic Health, Manitoba Children’s Hospital (Canada), and St. Vincent’s Current (Australia) Genesis Health. Before joining Gobel Consulting, Randall was the Chief Development Officer (CDO) and MedCenter Senior Executive at the Nebraska Medical Center, where he was responsible for all aspects of fundraising, including the introduction of a major gift solicitations program through physician engagement, a concierge program, and a planned giving effort which led to a 600 percent increase during his tenure. Randall and his team supported the $370 million 18-month fundraising effort for the Fred and Pamela Buffett Cancer Center. Before working with MedCenter, Randall spent 15 years in various fundraising positions, all in the chief development officer role. Randall holds a Bachelor’s Degree in business and finance from the University of Nebraska-Omaha, a Master’s Degree in Business Administration from the University of Missouri-Kansas City, a Juris Doctorate with a personal focus in taxation issues of estates and trusts from the University of Missouri-Kansas City, and an Educational Doctorate in leadership from the University of St. Thomas. Randall believes in being an industry leader. He has written his book on the CEO in nonprofits, Vibrant Vulnerability. Randall also hosts his weekly 20-minute podcast (now more than 170 available), each with its own nonprofit challenge and tactical answers. He also authors two "90-second read" blog posts each week on various nonprofit and leadership observations.

More information at https://www.hallettphilanthropy.com/ 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Mar 2024 20:59:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Vibrant Vulnerability: The Changing Nature of Leadership for Nonprofits</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leadership and Philanthropy</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Vibrant Vulnerability: The Changing Nature of Leadership for Nonprofits

The role of CEO, whether in healthcare or as leader of a church, is drastically changing to include being the "chief fundraising officer." The choice is not whether one likes the change, but rather whether or not one chooses to embrace the change.

Randall Hallett is the CEO and Founder of Hallett Philanthropy, a full-service philanthropy consulting firm. Having spent his entire career in philanthropy, Randall is passionate about helping organizations seek funding to meet their mission. He believes giving is good for one’s emotional and physical well-being. Before founding Hallett Philanthropy, Randall served as President and Principal Consultant for a large consulting firm. He oversaw all client programs on behalf of the 30+ person firm. The final four years of his seven-year tenure were the most profitable for the organization. Randall has worked with systems, hospitals, and medical centers here in the US and across the globe, including Intermountain Health System, Catholic Health Initiatives (CHI) System, Dignity Health System, AdventHealth System, Indiana University Health System, University of California Irvine, Baylor University Medical Center, University of Missouri, University of Miami, Marshfield Clinic Health, Manitoba Children’s Hospital (Canada), and St. Vincent’s Current (Australia) Genesis Health. Before joining Gobel Consulting, Randall was the Chief Development Officer (CDO) and MedCenter Senior Executive at the Nebraska Medical Center, where he was responsible for all aspects of fundraising, including the introduction of a major gift solicitations program through physician engagement, a concierge program, and a planned giving effort which led to a 600 percent increase during his tenure. Randall and his team supported the $370 million 18-month fundraising effort for the Fred and Pamela Buffett Cancer Center. Before working with MedCenter, Randall spent 15 years in various fundraising positions, all in the chief development officer role. Randall holds a Bachelor’s Degree in business and finance from the University of Nebraska-Omaha, a Master’s Degree in Business Administration from the University of Missouri-Kansas City, a Juris Doctorate with a personal focus in taxation issues of estates and trusts from the University of Missouri-Kansas City, and an Educational Doctorate in leadership from the University of St. Thomas. Randall believes in being an industry leader. He has written his book on the CEO in nonprofits, Vibrant Vulnerability. Randall also hosts his weekly 20-minute podcast (now more than 170 available), each with its own nonprofit challenge and tactical answers. He also authors two "90-second read" blog posts each week on various nonprofit and leadership observations.

More information at https://www.hallettphilanthropy.com/ 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Vibrant Vulnerability: The Changing Nature of Leadership for Nonprofits</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>The role of CEO, whether in healthcare or as leader of a church, is drastically changing to include being the "chief fundraising officer." The choice is not whether one likes the change, but rather whether or not one chooses to embrace the change.</p><p><br></p><p>Randall Hallett is the CEO and Founder of Hallett Philanthropy, a full-service philanthropy consulting firm. Having spent his entire career in philanthropy, Randall is passionate about helping organizations seek funding to meet their mission. He believes giving is good for one’s emotional and physical well-being. Before founding Hallett Philanthropy, Randall served as President and Principal Consultant for a large consulting firm. He oversaw all client programs on behalf of the 30+ person firm. The final four years of his seven-year tenure were the most profitable for the organization. Randall has worked with systems, hospitals, and medical centers here in the US and across the globe, including Intermountain Health System, Catholic Health Initiatives (CHI) System, Dignity Health System, AdventHealth System, Indiana University Health System, University of California Irvine, Baylor University Medical Center, University of Missouri, University of Miami, Marshfield Clinic Health, Manitoba Children’s Hospital (Canada), and St. Vincent’s Current (Australia) Genesis Health. Before joining Gobel Consulting, Randall was the Chief Development Officer (CDO) and MedCenter Senior Executive at the Nebraska Medical Center, where he was responsible for all aspects of fundraising, including the introduction of a major gift solicitations program through physician engagement, a concierge program, and a planned giving effort which led to a 600 percent increase during his tenure. Randall and his team supported the $370 million 18-month fundraising effort for the Fred and Pamela Buffett Cancer Center. Before working with MedCenter, Randall spent 15 years in various fundraising positions, all in the chief development officer role. Randall holds a Bachelor’s Degree in business and finance from the University of Nebraska-Omaha, a Master’s Degree in Business Administration from the University of Missouri-Kansas City, a Juris Doctorate with a personal focus in taxation issues of estates and trusts from the University of Missouri-Kansas City, and an Educational Doctorate in leadership from the University of St. Thomas. Randall believes in being an industry leader. He has written his book on the CEO in nonprofits, Vibrant Vulnerability. Randall also hosts his weekly 20-minute podcast (now more than 170 available), each with its own nonprofit challenge and tactical answers. He also authors two "90-second read" blog posts each week on various nonprofit and leadership observations.</p><p><br></p><p>More information at <a href="https://www.hallettphilanthropy.com/">https://www.hallettphilanthropy.com/</a> </p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1721</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[4a9e861e-db33-11ee-8afe-a7c17b1d31bb]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5578927834.mp3?updated=1709672685" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>Park View Community Mission: Shared Mission, Shared Spaces</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/02/20/npe-template-copy/</link>
      <description>Park View Community Mission: Shared Mission, Shared Spaces
Rev. Dr. Todd Blake began serving with Park View in 2021 after twenty years of serving churches in North Carolina &amp; Virginia. He has a Bachelor's, Master's of Divinity, and a Doctor of Ministry from Campbell University, home of the Fighting Camels. 
Todd is married to Kim, and they have two daughters, Hannah &amp; Emma.  He enjoys playing, coaching, and officiating soccer games, as well as drinking lots of coffee
Park View Community Mission - Many of those we serve may have experienced a crisis that has brought them to a place of financial insecurity, such as the loss of a job or the death of a spouse. Others live in chronic or generational poverty, having never been taught another way of life - away to find that bridge they need to break the cycle. That is why we employ a holistic approach, to empower people to recognize their worth and their potential and live the full lives for which they were created, as shown in our motto: Help. Healing. Hope.

For More Information - https://www.parkviewmission.org

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2024 20:54:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Park View Community Mission: Shared Mission, Shared Spaces</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dr. Todd Blake</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Park View Community Mission: Shared Mission, Shared Spaces
Rev. Dr. Todd Blake began serving with Park View in 2021 after twenty years of serving churches in North Carolina &amp; Virginia. He has a Bachelor's, Master's of Divinity, and a Doctor of Ministry from Campbell University, home of the Fighting Camels. 
Todd is married to Kim, and they have two daughters, Hannah &amp; Emma.  He enjoys playing, coaching, and officiating soccer games, as well as drinking lots of coffee
Park View Community Mission - Many of those we serve may have experienced a crisis that has brought them to a place of financial insecurity, such as the loss of a job or the death of a spouse. Others live in chronic or generational poverty, having never been taught another way of life - away to find that bridge they need to break the cycle. That is why we employ a holistic approach, to empower people to recognize their worth and their potential and live the full lives for which they were created, as shown in our motto: Help. Healing. Hope.

For More Information - https://www.parkviewmission.org

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Park View Community Mission: Shared Mission, Shared Spaces</strong></p><p>Rev. Dr. Todd Blake began serving with Park View in 2021 after twenty years of serving churches in North Carolina &amp; Virginia. He has a Bachelor's, Master's of Divinity, and a Doctor of Ministry from Campbell University, home of the Fighting Camels. </p><p>Todd is married to Kim, and they have two daughters, Hannah &amp; Emma.  He enjoys playing, coaching, and officiating soccer games, as well as drinking lots of coffee</p><p>Park View Community Mission - Many of those we serve may have experienced a crisis that has brought them to a place of financial insecurity, such as the loss of a job or the death of a spouse. Others live in chronic or generational poverty, having never been taught another way of life - away to find that bridge they need to break the cycle. That is why we employ a holistic approach, to empower people to recognize their worth and their potential and live the full lives for which they were created, as shown in our motto: Help. Healing. Hope.</p><p><br></p><p>For More Information - <a href="https://www.parkviewmission.org">https://www.parkviewmission.org</a></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1843</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[722c9b52-d5b2-11ee-a13f-c790b357fb2d]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6826891162.mp3?updated=1709067591" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How To Beat Chaos and Integrate Faith in The Workplace</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/02/20/npe-how-to-beat-chaos/</link>
      <description>How To Beat Chaos and Integrate Faith in The Workplace

Gary Harpst is CEO and Founder of LeadFirst.ai, a leadership development company. Gary is a keynote speaker and insightful teacher who challenges and motivates his audiences. His passion is speaking about what effective leaders need to know, do, and be to overcome the chaos of everyday life. He unlocks biblical wisdom for unleashing the potential in every human being to lead themselves and others. Gary is recognized as one of the Top 100 of the nation's top thought leaders in management and leadership by Leadership Excellence magazine. Because of his expertise, Gary is also interviewed and quoted by national and local media for newspaper and magazine articles and podcasts, radio, and TV interviews.
When owners and leadership teams can’t manage growth, it feels like chaos. Chaos gets in the way of accomplishing good works and creating Kingdom impact. Many Christ-following business owners long to be successful and care for their people in ways that honor God. When company and personnel growth creates leadership, management, communication, and performance chaos, you must compromise between building a great business and creating kingdom impact. That’s why we developed LeadFirst, the Kingdom Impact Leadership Platform for CEOs and owners who refuse to compromise on delivering whole-business and whole-person health in a faith-friendly way. When you conquer chaos with LeadFirst, you can build a great business, bring the fullness of life to your employees, and deliver kingdom impact.

More information at https://www.leadfirst.ai/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2024 22:02:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How To Beat Chaos and Integrate Faith in The Workplace</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Leadership Coach Gary Harpst</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How To Beat Chaos and Integrate Faith in The Workplace

Gary Harpst is CEO and Founder of LeadFirst.ai, a leadership development company. Gary is a keynote speaker and insightful teacher who challenges and motivates his audiences. His passion is speaking about what effective leaders need to know, do, and be to overcome the chaos of everyday life. He unlocks biblical wisdom for unleashing the potential in every human being to lead themselves and others. Gary is recognized as one of the Top 100 of the nation's top thought leaders in management and leadership by Leadership Excellence magazine. Because of his expertise, Gary is also interviewed and quoted by national and local media for newspaper and magazine articles and podcasts, radio, and TV interviews.
When owners and leadership teams can’t manage growth, it feels like chaos. Chaos gets in the way of accomplishing good works and creating Kingdom impact. Many Christ-following business owners long to be successful and care for their people in ways that honor God. When company and personnel growth creates leadership, management, communication, and performance chaos, you must compromise between building a great business and creating kingdom impact. That’s why we developed LeadFirst, the Kingdom Impact Leadership Platform for CEOs and owners who refuse to compromise on delivering whole-business and whole-person health in a faith-friendly way. When you conquer chaos with LeadFirst, you can build a great business, bring the fullness of life to your employees, and deliver kingdom impact.

More information at https://www.leadfirst.ai/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>How To Beat Chaos and Integrate Faith in The Workplace</p><p><br></p><p>Gary Harpst is CEO and Founder of LeadFirst.ai, a leadership development company. Gary is a keynote speaker and insightful teacher who challenges and motivates his audiences. His passion is speaking about what effective leaders need to know, do, and be to overcome the chaos of everyday life. He unlocks biblical wisdom for unleashing the potential in every human being to lead themselves and others. Gary is recognized as one of the Top 100 of the nation's top thought leaders in management and leadership by Leadership Excellence magazine. Because of his expertise, Gary is also interviewed and quoted by national and local media for newspaper and magazine articles and podcasts, radio, and TV interviews.</p><p>When owners and leadership teams can’t manage growth, it feels like chaos. Chaos gets in the way of accomplishing good works and creating Kingdom impact. Many Christ-following business owners long to be successful and care for their people in ways that honor God. When company and personnel growth creates leadership, management, communication, and performance chaos, you must compromise between building a great business and creating kingdom impact. That’s why we developed LeadFirst, the Kingdom Impact Leadership Platform for CEOs and owners who refuse to compromise on delivering whole-business and whole-person health in a faith-friendly way. When you conquer chaos with LeadFirst, you can build a great business, bring the fullness of life to your employees, and deliver kingdom impact.</p><p><br></p><p>More information at <a href="https://www.leadfirst.ai/">https://www.leadfirst.ai/</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1897</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Soul of Leadership</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/02/13/npe-soul-of-leadership/</link>
      <description>The Soul of Leadership
PHIL COUSINEAU is an award-winning writer and filmmaker, story consultant and editor, travel leader and inspirational speaker on myth in the modern world. His life-long fascination with the art, literature, and history of culture has taken him on many journeys in many realms. He lectures frequently on a wide range of topics--from mythology, film, and writing, to beauty, travel, sports, and creativity. He has published more than 40 books and has earned 25 scriptwriting credits. "The omnipresent influence of myth in modern life" is a thread that runs through all of his work.
Born at an army hospital in Columbia, South Carolina, in the 1950s, Phil Cousineau grew up just outside of Detroit, once known as the "Paris of the Midwest." While moonlighting in a steel factory he studied journalism at the University of Detroit. Before turning to writing books and films full-time in the 1980s, Cousineau’s peripatetic career included stints as a sportswriter, playing semi-professional basketball in Europe, harvesting date trees on an Israeli kibbutz, painting 44 Victorian houses in San Francisco, and teaching screenwriting at the American Film Institute in Los Angeles
More about Phil Cousineau and his work at ttps://www.philcousineau.net  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2024 22:45:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Soul of Leadership</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Journey with Phil Cousineau</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Soul of Leadership
PHIL COUSINEAU is an award-winning writer and filmmaker, story consultant and editor, travel leader and inspirational speaker on myth in the modern world. His life-long fascination with the art, literature, and history of culture has taken him on many journeys in many realms. He lectures frequently on a wide range of topics--from mythology, film, and writing, to beauty, travel, sports, and creativity. He has published more than 40 books and has earned 25 scriptwriting credits. "The omnipresent influence of myth in modern life" is a thread that runs through all of his work.
Born at an army hospital in Columbia, South Carolina, in the 1950s, Phil Cousineau grew up just outside of Detroit, once known as the "Paris of the Midwest." While moonlighting in a steel factory he studied journalism at the University of Detroit. Before turning to writing books and films full-time in the 1980s, Cousineau’s peripatetic career included stints as a sportswriter, playing semi-professional basketball in Europe, harvesting date trees on an Israeli kibbutz, painting 44 Victorian houses in San Francisco, and teaching screenwriting at the American Film Institute in Los Angeles
More about Phil Cousineau and his work at ttps://www.philcousineau.net  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>The Soul of Leadership</strong></h1><p><strong>PHIL COUSINEAU</strong> is an award-winning writer and filmmaker, story consultant and editor, travel leader and inspirational speaker on myth in the modern world. His life-long fascination with the art, literature, and history of culture has taken him on many journeys in many realms. He lectures frequently on a wide range of topics--from mythology, film, and writing, to beauty, travel, sports, and creativity. He has published more than 40 books and has earned 25 scriptwriting credits. "The omnipresent influence of myth in modern life" is a thread that runs through all of his work.</p><p>Born at an army hospital in Columbia, South Carolina, in the 1950s, Phil Cousineau grew up just outside of Detroit, once known as the "Paris of the Midwest." While moonlighting in a steel factory he studied journalism at the University of Detroit. Before turning to writing books and films full-time in the 1980s, Cousineau’s peripatetic career included stints as a sportswriter, playing semi-professional basketball in Europe, harvesting date trees on an Israeli kibbutz, painting 44 Victorian houses in San Francisco, and teaching screenwriting at the American Film Institute in Los Angeles</p><p>More about Phil Cousineau and his work at <a>ttps://www.philcousineau.net</a>  </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3637</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3514724690.mp3?updated=1707864627" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Critical Thing Nobody Ever Told You About Values</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/02/06/npe-values-based-life/</link>
      <description>The Critical Thing Nobody Ever Told You About Values

People's lack of values clarity is contributing to so many of the problems we are faced with, including the incredible polarity in politics, business and media. Discovering one's highest values can be confusing and complicated and rarely creates implementable and lasting results. We eliminate the complexity and confusion by dividing values into two distinct categories, making it easy for people to discover, remember and live in alignment with what is most important to them.

Robert MacPhee is the creator of the “Excellent Decisions” values-based leadership program and the author of "Living a Values Based Life". He is the former Director of Training for the Canfield Training Group, (having worked closely for many years with Jack Canfield, the co-creator of the Chicken Soup for the Soul Book series and the author of The Success Principles). Robert is a Founding Member and former Executive Director of the Transformational Leadership Council, a Co-Founder of the Southern California Association of Transformational Leaders, and a former Executive Board Member of the San Francisco Bay Area Chapter of Conscious Capitalism. Robert is a knowledgeable, fun and engaging speaker and facilitator. He is an expert in experiential learning, peak performance, values clarification and leadership. He has spoken at corporate conferences, industry trade shows, government conferences, Colleges, Universities and High Schools and he has been a featured presenter at a wide variety of corporate events and trainings. Robert currently lives in Sonoma California, is a committed father and former marathon runner, and has become an aspiring wine aficionado.

For more information - https://valuesbasedlife.com/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2024 01:29:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Critical Thing Nobody Ever Told You About Values</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Values Coach Robert MacPhee</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Critical Thing Nobody Ever Told You About Values

People's lack of values clarity is contributing to so many of the problems we are faced with, including the incredible polarity in politics, business and media. Discovering one's highest values can be confusing and complicated and rarely creates implementable and lasting results. We eliminate the complexity and confusion by dividing values into two distinct categories, making it easy for people to discover, remember and live in alignment with what is most important to them.

Robert MacPhee is the creator of the “Excellent Decisions” values-based leadership program and the author of "Living a Values Based Life". He is the former Director of Training for the Canfield Training Group, (having worked closely for many years with Jack Canfield, the co-creator of the Chicken Soup for the Soul Book series and the author of The Success Principles). Robert is a Founding Member and former Executive Director of the Transformational Leadership Council, a Co-Founder of the Southern California Association of Transformational Leaders, and a former Executive Board Member of the San Francisco Bay Area Chapter of Conscious Capitalism. Robert is a knowledgeable, fun and engaging speaker and facilitator. He is an expert in experiential learning, peak performance, values clarification and leadership. He has spoken at corporate conferences, industry trade shows, government conferences, Colleges, Universities and High Schools and he has been a featured presenter at a wide variety of corporate events and trainings. Robert currently lives in Sonoma California, is a committed father and former marathon runner, and has become an aspiring wine aficionado.

For more information - https://valuesbasedlife.com/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>The Critical Thing Nobody Ever Told You About Values</h1><p><br></p><p>People's lack of values clarity is contributing to so many of the problems we are faced with, including the incredible polarity in politics, business and media. Discovering one's highest values can be confusing and complicated and rarely creates implementable and lasting results. We eliminate the complexity and confusion by dividing values into two distinct categories, making it easy for people to discover, remember and live in alignment with what is most important to them.</p><p><br></p><p>Robert MacPhee is the creator of the “Excellent Decisions” values-based leadership program and the author of "Living a Values Based Life". He is the former Director of Training for the Canfield Training Group, (having worked closely for many years with Jack Canfield, the co-creator of the Chicken Soup for the Soul Book series and the author of The Success Principles). Robert is a Founding Member and former Executive Director of the Transformational Leadership Council, a Co-Founder of the Southern California Association of Transformational Leaders, and a former Executive Board Member of the San Francisco Bay Area Chapter of Conscious Capitalism. Robert is a knowledgeable, fun and engaging speaker and facilitator. He is an expert in experiential learning, peak performance, values clarification and leadership. He has spoken at corporate conferences, industry trade shows, government conferences, Colleges, Universities and High Schools and he has been a featured presenter at a wide variety of corporate events and trainings. Robert currently lives in Sonoma California, is a committed father and former marathon runner, and has become an aspiring wine aficionado.</p><p><br></p><p>For more information - <a href="https://valuesbasedlife.com/">https://valuesbasedlife.com/</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1978</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[50d8f668-c558-11ee-ac7b-6f95ad591c86]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9725350449.mp3?updated=1707269661" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Flipping Our Mindset Regarding Inclusion from Obligation to Opportunity</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/01/30/npe-inclusion/</link>
      <description>Flipping Our Mindset Regarding Inclusion from Obligation to Opportunity

Daniel Hodges has spent his entire life learning to thrive in a body that some consider to be deeply flawed. As someone who was born blind, and with a connective tissue disorder, Hodges is well-acquainted with the low expectations encountered by those with disabilities.
These experiences have ignited a fire in him to help create a world in which everyone is afforded the opportunity to reach their potential without the barriers that hold so many of us back.
In 2018, Daniel entered the University of Baltimore School of Law, with aspirations of practicing at the intersection of healthcare and civil rights law.
His involvement in Peaces of Me is an outgrowth of these efforts. Our collective passion for advocacy and the furtherance of equity and inclusion runs deep. Hodges says, “I am blessed and honored to be part of this amazing team.”

More about Daniel’s work at - https://peacesofme.org 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2024 23:33:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Flipping Our Mindset Regarding Inclusion from Obligation to Opportunity</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Daniel Hodges</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Flipping Our Mindset Regarding Inclusion from Obligation to Opportunity

Daniel Hodges has spent his entire life learning to thrive in a body that some consider to be deeply flawed. As someone who was born blind, and with a connective tissue disorder, Hodges is well-acquainted with the low expectations encountered by those with disabilities.
These experiences have ignited a fire in him to help create a world in which everyone is afforded the opportunity to reach their potential without the barriers that hold so many of us back.
In 2018, Daniel entered the University of Baltimore School of Law, with aspirations of practicing at the intersection of healthcare and civil rights law.
His involvement in Peaces of Me is an outgrowth of these efforts. Our collective passion for advocacy and the furtherance of equity and inclusion runs deep. Hodges says, “I am blessed and honored to be part of this amazing team.”

More about Daniel’s work at - https://peacesofme.org 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Flipping Our Mindset Regarding Inclusion from Obligation to Opportunity</strong></h1><p class="ql-align-justify"><br></p><p class="ql-align-justify">Daniel Hodges has spent his entire life learning to thrive in a body that some consider to be deeply flawed. As someone who was born blind, and with a connective tissue disorder, Hodges is well-acquainted with the low expectations encountered by those with disabilities.</p><p class="ql-align-justify">These experiences have ignited a fire in him to help create a world in which everyone is afforded the opportunity to reach their potential without the barriers that hold so many of us back.</p><p class="ql-align-justify">In 2018, Daniel entered the University of Baltimore School of Law, with aspirations of practicing at the intersection of healthcare and civil rights law.</p><p class="ql-align-justify">His involvement in Peaces of Me is an outgrowth of these efforts. Our collective passion for advocacy and the furtherance of equity and inclusion runs deep. Hodges says, “I am blessed and honored to be part of this amazing team.”</p><p class="ql-align-justify"><br></p><p class="ql-align-justify">More about Daniel’s work at - <a href="https://peacesofme.org">https://peacesofme.org</a> </p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1831</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[ebaeb9e8-bfc7-11ee-a4a9-533d464c0a54]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6249478957.mp3?updated=1706657888" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Plan for Success: Why Succession Planning is Crucial for Your Organization</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/01/23/npe-succession-planning/</link>
      <description>Plan for Success:
Why Succession Planning is Crucial for Your Organization

Today's labor market is unlike anything I have seen in my career. There are fewer applicants for open positions and the needs and wants of employees have changed. And in non-profits, the labor market changes can be felt even stronger because employees wear so many hats. Creating a strong succession plan not only ensures success in the future but also creates opportunities for development for current employees and strengthens their ties to the organization. Anne shares her experience with succession planning and how to create a succession plan for your organization.

Anne Donovan, SPHR, SHRM-SCP I am a Human Resources leader known for developing new programs and training, dramatically improving employee retention and leadership performance. I design initiatives to address underlying issues across many industries by conducting extensive employee feedback research. Organizations value my talent for identifying core workforce needs and taking action to develop and drive projects. Some of my successes include dramatically reducing turnover, introducing retention programs, spearheading leadership development programs, and creating succession plans for the future. In addition, leading culture shifts and change management during highly stressful times are some of my specialties. I have created high-performing teams by leading with a people-first philosophy. I have a talent for spotting potential in people and I am passionate about growing and supporting people so they realize their full potential. My passion lies in helping people and organizations thrive.

More at https://donovanhrsolutions.com/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2024 01:27:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Plan for Success: Why Succession Planning is Crucial for Your Organization</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Anne Donovan</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Plan for Success:
Why Succession Planning is Crucial for Your Organization

Today's labor market is unlike anything I have seen in my career. There are fewer applicants for open positions and the needs and wants of employees have changed. And in non-profits, the labor market changes can be felt even stronger because employees wear so many hats. Creating a strong succession plan not only ensures success in the future but also creates opportunities for development for current employees and strengthens their ties to the organization. Anne shares her experience with succession planning and how to create a succession plan for your organization.

Anne Donovan, SPHR, SHRM-SCP I am a Human Resources leader known for developing new programs and training, dramatically improving employee retention and leadership performance. I design initiatives to address underlying issues across many industries by conducting extensive employee feedback research. Organizations value my talent for identifying core workforce needs and taking action to develop and drive projects. Some of my successes include dramatically reducing turnover, introducing retention programs, spearheading leadership development programs, and creating succession plans for the future. In addition, leading culture shifts and change management during highly stressful times are some of my specialties. I have created high-performing teams by leading with a people-first philosophy. I have a talent for spotting potential in people and I am passionate about growing and supporting people so they realize their full potential. My passion lies in helping people and organizations thrive.

More at https://donovanhrsolutions.com/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><br></p><p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Plan for Success:</strong></p><p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Why Succession Planning is Crucial for Your Organization</strong></p><p><br></p><p>Today's labor market is unlike anything I have seen in my career. There are fewer applicants for open positions and the needs and wants of employees have changed. And in non-profits, the labor market changes can be felt even stronger because employees wear so many hats. Creating a strong succession plan not only ensures success in the future but also creates opportunities for development for current employees and strengthens their ties to the organization. Anne shares her experience with succession planning and how to create a succession plan for your organization.</p><p><br></p><p>Anne Donovan, SPHR, SHRM-SCP I am a Human Resources leader known for developing new programs and training, dramatically improving employee retention and leadership performance. I design initiatives to address underlying issues across many industries by conducting extensive employee feedback research. Organizations value my talent for identifying core workforce needs and taking action to develop and drive projects. Some of my successes include dramatically reducing turnover, introducing retention programs, spearheading leadership development programs, and creating succession plans for the future. In addition, leading culture shifts and change management during highly stressful times are some of my specialties. I have created high-performing teams by leading with a people-first philosophy. I have a talent for spotting potential in people and I am passionate about growing and supporting people so they realize their full potential. My passion lies in helping people and organizations thrive.</p><p><br></p><p>More at <a href="https://donovanhrsolutions.com/">https://donovanhrsolutions.com/</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1609</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[c818db1e-ba57-11ee-820d-efaed41137c0]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7964768435.mp3?updated=1706059969" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Wipeout Workaholism to Enjoy Your Career and Love Your Life</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/01/16/npe-wipeout-workaholism/</link>
      <description>Wipeout Workaholism to Enjoy Your Career and Love Your Life

Creating a work culture that honors well-being is an investment in the people who work with you and promotes productivity, retention, engagement, and fulfillment.
Caroline Dowd-Higgins is passionate about unlocking the art of the possible in her work with individuals and organizations as a certified executive coach, a best-selling author, a dynamic speaker, and a sought-after consultant. Her new book, “Your Career Advantage: Overcome Challenges to Achieve a Rewarding Work Life, " empowers people to enjoy their careers and love their lives. Caroline hosts the award-winning podcast, Your Working Life with listeners in 34 countries. Her celebrated TEDxWOMEN talk about reframing failure is available on YouTube. Follow her on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter.
https://carolinedowdhiggins.com/ 

#culturematters
#failforward
#TheNonprofitExchange
#EmotionalIntelligence
#HughBallou
#CarolineDowdHiggin
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2024 20:48:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Wipeout Workaholism to Enjoy Your Career and Love Your Life</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Creating a work culture that honors well-bein</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Wipeout Workaholism to Enjoy Your Career and Love Your Life

Creating a work culture that honors well-being is an investment in the people who work with you and promotes productivity, retention, engagement, and fulfillment.
Caroline Dowd-Higgins is passionate about unlocking the art of the possible in her work with individuals and organizations as a certified executive coach, a best-selling author, a dynamic speaker, and a sought-after consultant. Her new book, “Your Career Advantage: Overcome Challenges to Achieve a Rewarding Work Life, " empowers people to enjoy their careers and love their lives. Caroline hosts the award-winning podcast, Your Working Life with listeners in 34 countries. Her celebrated TEDxWOMEN talk about reframing failure is available on YouTube. Follow her on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter.
https://carolinedowdhiggins.com/ 

#culturematters
#failforward
#TheNonprofitExchange
#EmotionalIntelligence
#HughBallou
#CarolineDowdHiggin
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Wipeout Workaholism to Enjoy Your Career and Love Your Life</strong></p><p><br></p><p>Creating a work culture that honors well-being is an investment in the people who work with you and promotes productivity, retention, engagement, and fulfillment.</p><p>Caroline Dowd-Higgins is passionate about unlocking the art of the possible in her work with individuals and organizations as a certified executive coach, a best-selling author, a dynamic speaker, and a sought-after consultant. Her new book, “Your Career Advantage: Overcome Challenges to Achieve a Rewarding Work Life, " empowers people to enjoy their careers and love their lives. Caroline hosts the award-winning podcast, Your Working Life with listeners in 34 countries. Her celebrated TEDxWOMEN talk about reframing failure is available on YouTube. Follow her on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter.</p><p><a href="https://carolinedowdhiggins.com/">https://carolinedowdhiggins.com/</a> </p><p><br></p><p>#culturematters</p><p>#failforward</p><p>#TheNonprofitExchange</p><p>#EmotionalIntelligence</p><p>#HughBallou</p><p>#CarolineDowdHiggin</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1700</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[abe1af2c-b4b0-11ee-8c8f-13d054eb1e2e]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8848871219.mp3?updated=1705438439" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Managing Your Brain for Fundraising Success</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/01/09/npe-brain-for-success/</link>
      <description>Managing Your Brain for Fundraising Success: 80% of the challenge of fundraising is all in your mind

Rhea Wong helps nonprofits raise more money. Though she has deep experience with institutional, corporate and event fund-raising, she is passionate about major individual donors and helping organizations to establish individual giving programs. She has raised millions of dollars in private philanthropy and is passionate about building the next generation of fundraising leaders. She has become a leader in the New York nonprofit community and is a frequent educational commentator in the media. She has been recognized with the SmartCEO Brava Award in 2015 and NY Nonprofit Media’s 40 under 40 in 2017. For more information about Rhea, please see her LinkedIn Profile here. Rhea lives in Brooklyn with her husband. When she is not raising money for causes she loves, she can be found hosting her podcast Nonprofit Lowdown, promoting her newest book Get that Money, Honey! or onstage as a newbie stand-up comedian in downtown Brooklyn. For more information, check out rheawong.com Find her on the socials at: LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram

More information at https://www.rheawong.com/#

Get your free Money Quiz - https://go.rheawong.com/money-quiz 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2024 21:46:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Managing Your Brain for Fundraising Success</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>80% of the challenge of fundraising is all in your mind</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Managing Your Brain for Fundraising Success: 80% of the challenge of fundraising is all in your mind

Rhea Wong helps nonprofits raise more money. Though she has deep experience with institutional, corporate and event fund-raising, she is passionate about major individual donors and helping organizations to establish individual giving programs. She has raised millions of dollars in private philanthropy and is passionate about building the next generation of fundraising leaders. She has become a leader in the New York nonprofit community and is a frequent educational commentator in the media. She has been recognized with the SmartCEO Brava Award in 2015 and NY Nonprofit Media’s 40 under 40 in 2017. For more information about Rhea, please see her LinkedIn Profile here. Rhea lives in Brooklyn with her husband. When she is not raising money for causes she loves, she can be found hosting her podcast Nonprofit Lowdown, promoting her newest book Get that Money, Honey! or onstage as a newbie stand-up comedian in downtown Brooklyn. For more information, check out rheawong.com Find her on the socials at: LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram

More information at https://www.rheawong.com/#

Get your free Money Quiz - https://go.rheawong.com/money-quiz 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Managing Your Brain for Fundraising Success: 80% of the challenge of fundraising is all in your mind</strong></p><p><br></p><p>Rhea Wong helps nonprofits raise more money. Though she has deep experience with institutional, corporate and event fund-raising, she is passionate about major individual donors and helping organizations to establish individual giving programs. She has raised millions of dollars in private philanthropy and is passionate about building the next generation of fundraising leaders. She has become a leader in the New York nonprofit community and is a frequent educational commentator in the media. She has been recognized with the SmartCEO Brava Award in 2015 and NY Nonprofit Media’s 40 under 40 in 2017. For more information about Rhea, please see her LinkedIn Profile here. Rhea lives in Brooklyn with her husband. When she is not raising money for causes she loves, she can be found hosting her podcast Nonprofit Lowdown, promoting her newest book Get that Money, Honey! or onstage as a newbie stand-up comedian in downtown Brooklyn. For more information, check out rheawong.com Find her on the socials at: LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram</p><p><br></p><p>More information at <a href="https://www.rheawong.com/#">https://www.rheawong.com/#</a></p><p><br></p><p>Get your free Money Quiz - <a href="https://go.rheawong.com/money-quiz">https://go.rheawong.com/money-quiz</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1525</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[1acec2cc-af38-11ee-a1b5-13157ae110a6]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1267282609.mp3?updated=1704836901" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Learn to love the Donor.... they will love your cause with their wallet</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2024/01/03/npe-love-the-donor/</link>
      <description>Learn to love the Donor.... they will love your cause with their wallet

Sending love out daily without regard of it coming back will build a fountain of giving that will last beyond your life.
Paul Zolman The author of love is God. In His wisdom, He placed us in various circumstances that require us to find our way back to His pure love. So, what qualifies Paul Zolman to speak about love? His childhood experience of the opposite of love. From that austere beginning, and the distaste it formed inside him, he searched for and eventually created a method that transformed his life from anger to loving everyone. Growing up in a family of abuse, physical touch became his preferred love style, only because of the regularity. He could almost count on it. It was consistent. He came to think that was the way to express love. But deep inside, he knew that was a twisted belief. He wanted a better life for himself, so he created a paradigm shift that works. In this book, you’ll find what helped Paul Zolman move from a childhood boot camp of abuse to being a person who loves everyone and can find good about anyone in any circumstance. This is truly the role of love.
https://www.roleoflove.com 
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2024 00:36:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Learn to love the Donor.... they will love your cause with their wallet</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Paul Zolman</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn to love the Donor.... they will love your cause with their wallet

Sending love out daily without regard of it coming back will build a fountain of giving that will last beyond your life.
Paul Zolman The author of love is God. In His wisdom, He placed us in various circumstances that require us to find our way back to His pure love. So, what qualifies Paul Zolman to speak about love? His childhood experience of the opposite of love. From that austere beginning, and the distaste it formed inside him, he searched for and eventually created a method that transformed his life from anger to loving everyone. Growing up in a family of abuse, physical touch became his preferred love style, only because of the regularity. He could almost count on it. It was consistent. He came to think that was the way to express love. But deep inside, he knew that was a twisted belief. He wanted a better life for himself, so he created a paradigm shift that works. In this book, you’ll find what helped Paul Zolman move from a childhood boot camp of abuse to being a person who loves everyone and can find good about anyone in any circumstance. This is truly the role of love.
https://www.roleoflove.com 
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Learn to love the Donor.... they will love your cause with their wallet</strong></p><p><br></p><p>Sending love out daily without regard of it coming back will build a fountain of giving that will last beyond your life.</p><p>Paul Zolman The author of love is God. In His wisdom, He placed us in various circumstances that require us to find our way back to His pure love. So, what qualifies Paul Zolman to speak about love? His childhood experience of the opposite of love. From that austere beginning, and the distaste it formed inside him, he searched for and eventually created a method that transformed his life from anger to loving everyone. Growing up in a family of abuse, physical touch became his preferred love style, only because of the regularity. He could almost count on it. It was consistent. He came to think that was the way to express love. But deep inside, he knew that was a twisted belief. He wanted a better life for himself, so he created a paradigm shift that works. In this book, you’ll find what helped Paul Zolman move from a childhood boot camp of abuse to being a person who loves everyone and can find good about anyone in any circumstance. This is truly the role of love.</p><p><a href="https://www.roleoflove.com">https://www.roleoflove.com</a> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1637</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Unleashing Hope: The Quest to Protect Survivors and Their Pets</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/12/19/npe-unleashing-hope/</link>
      <description>Unleashing Hope: The Quest to Protect Survivors and Their Pets

Dr. Orazie Cook holds advanced degrees in public health and has dedicated her career to addressing significant public health challenges. With an extensive background in public health, Orazie recognizes the profound implications domestic violence has on individual and community health, particularly when pets are involved. Driven by her passion for creating safe and nurturing environments, she founded Praline's Backyard Foundation to directly address the barriers faced by domestic violence survivors with pets. Drawing from her rich experiences and fueled by a deep compassion, Orazie is at the forefront of raising awareness and effecting change, ensuring both humans and animals can find safety and love away from abusive environments. Orazie is a dedicated advocate for domestic violence survivors and their beloved pets. With a passion for creating safe and loving environments for both humans and animals, she established Praline's Backyard Foundation with the goal of breaking barriers faced by survivors with pets. Driven by her own experiences and fueled by compassion, Orazie leads the charge in raising awareness about the challenges survivors encounter when seeking safe housing for their pets. Through her dynamic leadership, Praline's Backyard Foundation has become a beacon of hope for countless families and their beloved pets.
More information at: https://pralinesbackyardfoundation.org/
Every soul, whether human or animal, seeks comfort, love, and a sense of belonging. The mission of Praline's Backyard Foundation is not just about assisting domestic violence survivors and their pets; it's about restoring hope, rebuilding trust, and reinforcing the unbreakable bond between individuals and their beloved pets. For many survivors, their pets represent a beacon of hope, unconditional love, and a lifeline in their darkest moments. We urge you, as influential leaders and spiritual guides, to recognize and highlight the profound impact of this bond and the crucial need to support it. Our collective efforts can change narratives, heal wounds, and inspire communities to rally together. Let's champion the cause of ensuring that no person has to choose between personal safety and the well-being of their pet. Your voice and influence can amplify this message, inspire action, and truly make a difference in the lives of many.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2023 20:35:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Unleashing Hope: The Quest to Protect Survivors and Their Pets</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dr. Orazie Cook</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Unleashing Hope: The Quest to Protect Survivors and Their Pets

Dr. Orazie Cook holds advanced degrees in public health and has dedicated her career to addressing significant public health challenges. With an extensive background in public health, Orazie recognizes the profound implications domestic violence has on individual and community health, particularly when pets are involved. Driven by her passion for creating safe and nurturing environments, she founded Praline's Backyard Foundation to directly address the barriers faced by domestic violence survivors with pets. Drawing from her rich experiences and fueled by a deep compassion, Orazie is at the forefront of raising awareness and effecting change, ensuring both humans and animals can find safety and love away from abusive environments. Orazie is a dedicated advocate for domestic violence survivors and their beloved pets. With a passion for creating safe and loving environments for both humans and animals, she established Praline's Backyard Foundation with the goal of breaking barriers faced by survivors with pets. Driven by her own experiences and fueled by compassion, Orazie leads the charge in raising awareness about the challenges survivors encounter when seeking safe housing for their pets. Through her dynamic leadership, Praline's Backyard Foundation has become a beacon of hope for countless families and their beloved pets.
More information at: https://pralinesbackyardfoundation.org/
Every soul, whether human or animal, seeks comfort, love, and a sense of belonging. The mission of Praline's Backyard Foundation is not just about assisting domestic violence survivors and their pets; it's about restoring hope, rebuilding trust, and reinforcing the unbreakable bond between individuals and their beloved pets. For many survivors, their pets represent a beacon of hope, unconditional love, and a lifeline in their darkest moments. We urge you, as influential leaders and spiritual guides, to recognize and highlight the profound impact of this bond and the crucial need to support it. Our collective efforts can change narratives, heal wounds, and inspire communities to rally together. Let's champion the cause of ensuring that no person has to choose between personal safety and the well-being of their pet. Your voice and influence can amplify this message, inspire action, and truly make a difference in the lives of many.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Unleashing Hope: The Quest to Protect Survivors and Their Pets</strong></p><p><br></p><p>Dr. Orazie Cook holds advanced degrees in public health and has dedicated her career to addressing significant public health challenges. With an extensive background in public health, Orazie recognizes the profound implications domestic violence has on individual and community health, particularly when pets are involved. Driven by her passion for creating safe and nurturing environments, she founded Praline's Backyard Foundation to directly address the barriers faced by domestic violence survivors with pets. Drawing from her rich experiences and fueled by a deep compassion, Orazie is at the forefront of raising awareness and effecting change, ensuring both humans and animals can find safety and love away from abusive environments. Orazie is a dedicated advocate for domestic violence survivors and their beloved pets. With a passion for creating safe and loving environments for both humans and animals, she established Praline's Backyard Foundation with the goal of breaking barriers faced by survivors with pets. Driven by her own experiences and fueled by compassion, Orazie leads the charge in raising awareness about the challenges survivors encounter when seeking safe housing for their pets. Through her dynamic leadership, Praline's Backyard Foundation has become a beacon of hope for countless families and their beloved pets.</p><p>More information at: <a href="http://www.pralinesbackyardfoundation.org">https://pralinesbackyardfoundation.org/</a></p><p>Every soul, whether human or animal, seeks comfort, love, and a sense of belonging. The mission of Praline's Backyard Foundation is not just about assisting domestic violence survivors and their pets; it's about restoring hope, rebuilding trust, and reinforcing the unbreakable bond between individuals and their beloved pets. For many survivors, their pets represent a beacon of hope, unconditional love, and a lifeline in their darkest moments. We urge you, as influential leaders and spiritual guides, to recognize and highlight the profound impact of this bond and the crucial need to support it. Our collective efforts can change narratives, heal wounds, and inspire communities to rally together. Let's champion the cause of ensuring that no person has to choose between personal safety and the well-being of their pet. Your voice and influence can amplify this message, inspire action, and truly make a difference in the lives of many.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1582</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Leadership in the Abyss....From Bad to Worse and How Companies are Stifling Their Employees</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/12/12/npe-leaders-stifling-employees/</link>
      <description>Leadership in the Abyss...From Bad to Worse and How Companies are Stifling Their Employees

James G. Wetrich, LFACHE is the CEO of The Wetrich Group of Companies. He has been in the healthcare industry for over 40 years, has worked in senior positions at Abbott and Molnlycke Health Care, and has consulted with over 100 companies. He is a certified executive coach. He recently authored Stifled, Where Good Leaders Go Wrong as well as a chapter in the anthology, Quitless: The Power of Persistence in Business and Life by Alinka Rutkowska which was published on March 13, 2021, and became a USA Today and Wall Street Journal best-seller. Jim has served on numerous boards and advisory boards in both nonprofit as well as for-profit corporations. Jim is an Adjunct Instructor at Texas Wesleyan University. Jim has a B.S. from the University of Southern California, an MHA from Tulane, and an MBA from Emory. He received the Outstanding Alumnus Award from Tulane University SPH&amp;TM.
As the management guru Peter Drucker once said, managing nonprofits are some of the most challenging to lead. Family and faith are central to where we must focus.

https://jimwetrich.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2023 20:41:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leadership in the Abyss....From Bad to Worse and How Companies are Stifling Their Employees</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with James Wetrich</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leadership in the Abyss...From Bad to Worse and How Companies are Stifling Their Employees

James G. Wetrich, LFACHE is the CEO of The Wetrich Group of Companies. He has been in the healthcare industry for over 40 years, has worked in senior positions at Abbott and Molnlycke Health Care, and has consulted with over 100 companies. He is a certified executive coach. He recently authored Stifled, Where Good Leaders Go Wrong as well as a chapter in the anthology, Quitless: The Power of Persistence in Business and Life by Alinka Rutkowska which was published on March 13, 2021, and became a USA Today and Wall Street Journal best-seller. Jim has served on numerous boards and advisory boards in both nonprofit as well as for-profit corporations. Jim is an Adjunct Instructor at Texas Wesleyan University. Jim has a B.S. from the University of Southern California, an MHA from Tulane, and an MBA from Emory. He received the Outstanding Alumnus Award from Tulane University SPH&amp;TM.
As the management guru Peter Drucker once said, managing nonprofits are some of the most challenging to lead. Family and faith are central to where we must focus.

https://jimwetrich.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Leadership in the Abyss...From Bad to Worse and How Companies are Stifling Their Employees</strong></h1><p><br></p><p><strong>James G. Wetrich</strong>, LFACHE is the CEO of The Wetrich Group of Companies. He has been in the healthcare industry for over 40 years, has worked in senior positions at Abbott and Molnlycke Health Care, and has consulted with over 100 companies. He is a certified executive coach. He recently authored Stifled, Where Good Leaders Go Wrong as well as a chapter in the anthology, Quitless: The Power of Persistence in Business and Life by Alinka Rutkowska which was published on March 13, 2021, and became a USA Today and Wall Street Journal best-seller. Jim has served on numerous boards and advisory boards in both nonprofit as well as for-profit corporations. Jim is an Adjunct Instructor at Texas Wesleyan University. Jim has a B.S. from the University of Southern California, an MHA from Tulane, and an MBA from Emory. He received the Outstanding Alumnus Award from Tulane University SPH&amp;TM.</p><p>As the management guru Peter Drucker once said, managing nonprofits are some of the most challenging to lead. Family and faith are central to where we must focus.</p><p><br></p><p><a href="https://jimwetrich.com/">https://jimwetrich.com/</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1612</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[df40317e-992e-11ee-858b-7b343900e90c]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3148892592.mp3?updated=1702414010" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>You Can’t Change What You Tolerate</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/12/05/npe-making-change/</link>
      <description>You Can’t Change What You Tolerate

For business consultant and executive coach Robin Osborn, overcoming adversity has become a constant theme in both her personal and professional endeavors. A capable family business leader for more than three decades at Chromal Plating in California, after undergoing emergency surgery to remove a sizable brain tumor in 2021 Robin trudged through the frustrations of physical therapy for over a year until she was finally able to walk a single mile. Combining Robin’s operational, financial, and leadership prowess with personal experience, “The Frustration to Freedom Framework” emerged as a result of one of the most trying times in Robin’s life and today serves as the backbone of her consultancy to help executives achieve a kind of freedom that, as a business owner herself, she could only dream about before experiencing her unexpectedly profound transformation.
 
More at www.robinosborn.com
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      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2023 20:29:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>You Can’t Change What You Tolerate</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Making Change with Robin Osborn</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>You Can’t Change What You Tolerate

For business consultant and executive coach Robin Osborn, overcoming adversity has become a constant theme in both her personal and professional endeavors. A capable family business leader for more than three decades at Chromal Plating in California, after undergoing emergency surgery to remove a sizable brain tumor in 2021 Robin trudged through the frustrations of physical therapy for over a year until she was finally able to walk a single mile. Combining Robin’s operational, financial, and leadership prowess with personal experience, “The Frustration to Freedom Framework” emerged as a result of one of the most trying times in Robin’s life and today serves as the backbone of her consultancy to help executives achieve a kind of freedom that, as a business owner herself, she could only dream about before experiencing her unexpectedly profound transformation.
 
More at www.robinosborn.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>You Can’t Change What You Tolerate</strong></p><p><br></p><p>For business consultant and executive coach Robin Osborn, overcoming adversity has become a constant theme in both her personal and professional endeavors. A capable family business leader for more than three decades at Chromal Plating in California, after undergoing emergency surgery to remove a sizable brain tumor in 2021 Robin trudged through the frustrations of physical therapy for over a year until she was finally able to walk a single mile. Combining Robin’s operational, financial, and leadership prowess with personal experience, “The Frustration to Freedom Framework” emerged as a result of one of the most trying times in Robin’s life and today serves as the backbone of her consultancy to help executives achieve a kind of freedom that, as a business owner herself, she could only dream about before experiencing her unexpectedly profound transformation.</p><p> </p><p>More at www.robinosborn.com</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1679</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Why Data-Driven Impact Stories are the Secret to Increased Funding and Donor Engagement</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/11/28/npe-impact-stories/</link>
      <description>Why Data-Driven Impact Stories are the Secret to Increased Funding and Donor Engagement

Sheri is invested in helping social-good organizations further their missions in measurable ways. As an experienced speaker, Sheri enjoys sharing her expertise in nonprofit leadership and social impact with other nonprofit professionals so that they can drive impact for their organization and foster a culture of continuous change.

Sheri Chaney Jones is the founder and president of SureImpact. A researcher and expert in social impact measurement, Sheri believes in data, metrics, and accountability. She is a thought leader on public sector evaluation and applied organizational research. She is the author of Impact &amp; Excellence: Data-Driven Strategies for Aligning Mission, Culture, and Performance in Nonprofit and Government Organizations (Jossey Bass, 2014). Sheri is passionate about women’s equity and the advancement of girls. She is the Columbus Chapter President of the National Association of Women Business Owners and a Commissioner for the Columbus.

More information at https://www.sureimpact.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2023 21:40:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Why Data-Driven Impact Stories are the Secret to Increased Funding and Donor Engagement</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Measuring Impact with Shari Chaney Jones</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Why Data-Driven Impact Stories are the Secret to Increased Funding and Donor Engagement

Sheri is invested in helping social-good organizations further their missions in measurable ways. As an experienced speaker, Sheri enjoys sharing her expertise in nonprofit leadership and social impact with other nonprofit professionals so that they can drive impact for their organization and foster a culture of continuous change.

Sheri Chaney Jones is the founder and president of SureImpact. A researcher and expert in social impact measurement, Sheri believes in data, metrics, and accountability. She is a thought leader on public sector evaluation and applied organizational research. She is the author of Impact &amp; Excellence: Data-Driven Strategies for Aligning Mission, Culture, and Performance in Nonprofit and Government Organizations (Jossey Bass, 2014). Sheri is passionate about women’s equity and the advancement of girls. She is the Columbus Chapter President of the National Association of Women Business Owners and a Commissioner for the Columbus.

More information at https://www.sureimpact.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Why Data-Driven Impact Stories are the Secret to Increased Funding and Donor Engagement</strong></p><p><br></p><p>Sheri is invested in helping social-good organizations further their missions in measurable ways. As an experienced speaker, Sheri enjoys sharing her expertise in nonprofit leadership and social impact with other nonprofit professionals so that they can drive impact for their organization and foster a culture of continuous change.</p><p><br></p><p>Sheri Chaney Jones is the founder and president of SureImpact. A researcher and expert in social impact measurement, Sheri believes in data, metrics, and accountability. She is a thought leader on public sector evaluation and applied organizational research. She is the author of Impact &amp; Excellence: Data-Driven Strategies for Aligning Mission, Culture, and Performance in Nonprofit and Government Organizations (Jossey Bass, 2014). Sheri is passionate about women’s equity and the advancement of girls. She is the Columbus Chapter President of the National Association of Women Business Owners and a Commissioner for the Columbus.</p><p><br></p><p>More information at <a href="https://www.sureimpact.com/">https://www.sureimpact.com/</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1662</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[b4dcbd88-8e36-11ee-b35c-ffb745b3b712]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3542809696.mp3?updated=1701207912" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>How Philanthropy Is Good for Business</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/11/21/npe-philanthropy-is-good-for-business/</link>
      <description>How Philanthropy Is Good for Business

Karl Miller is the Principal Broker of Karl Miller Realty. With over 18 years of real estate sales experience, his passion is helping clients achieve their home ownership and financial dreams as he aids them in making informed decisions. Karl grew up on a Campbell County dairy farm and knows the value of old-fashioned service, integrity, and long-term relationships. When at home, Karl enjoys spending time with his wife Alys, their two teenage children, and Timmy the Cockapoo. Karl enjoys the outdoors, camping, exploring, and reading great books. You might see him running or mountain biking the local trails, kayaking the James, or cruising with the top down on his wife’s Jeep Rubicon he frequently “borrows.”

More at https://www.karlmillerrealty.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2023 21:35:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How Philanthropy Is Good for Business</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Philanthropist, Karl Miller</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How Philanthropy Is Good for Business

Karl Miller is the Principal Broker of Karl Miller Realty. With over 18 years of real estate sales experience, his passion is helping clients achieve their home ownership and financial dreams as he aids them in making informed decisions. Karl grew up on a Campbell County dairy farm and knows the value of old-fashioned service, integrity, and long-term relationships. When at home, Karl enjoys spending time with his wife Alys, their two teenage children, and Timmy the Cockapoo. Karl enjoys the outdoors, camping, exploring, and reading great books. You might see him running or mountain biking the local trails, kayaking the James, or cruising with the top down on his wife’s Jeep Rubicon he frequently “borrows.”

More at https://www.karlmillerrealty.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1 class="ql-align-center"><strong>How Philanthropy Is Good for Business</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>Karl Miller is the Principal Broker of Karl Miller Realty. With over 18 years of real estate sales experience, his passion is helping clients achieve their home ownership and financial dreams as he aids them in making informed decisions. Karl grew up on a Campbell County dairy farm and knows the value of old-fashioned service, integrity, and long-term relationships. When at home, Karl enjoys spending time with his wife Alys, their two teenage children, and Timmy the Cockapoo. Karl enjoys the outdoors, camping, exploring, and reading great books. You might see him running or mountain biking the local trails, kayaking the James, or cruising with the top down on his wife’s Jeep Rubicon he frequently “borrows.”</p><p><br></p><p>More at <a href="https://www.karlmillerrealty.com/">https://www.karlmillerrealty.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1857</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f28bbe12-88b5-11ee-aecb-fbfcd6d73adb]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8128782061.mp3?updated=1700602854" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Next Level Nonprofit: How to Build A Dream Team and Increase Lasting Impact</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/11/14/npe-next-level-nonprofit/</link>
      <description>Next Level Nonprofit: How to Build A Dream Team and Increase Lasting Impact
Dr. Chris Lambert is the author of Next Level Nonprofit and Founder/CEO of Life Remodeled. Chris originally pursued a degree in marketing at Indiana University with the hope of attending law school and launching a career as a real estate developer. A spiritual awakening during his junior year led to a passion to follow Jesus, and Chris eventually followed a call to Fuller and Gordon-Conwell seminaries, where he earned his MDiv and doctorate in preaching. Moving to Liberia in 2007, he and his wife helped a village raise the necessary resources for a well, farm animals, and a new school building. Upon returning to the U.S., Chris founded a church called Ekklesia. In 2010 he started Life Remodeled, which repurposes vacant school buildings into one-stop hubs of opportunities and helps create neighborhood revitalization that lasts. Additionally, he and his dream team built and launched the Next Level Nonprofit organizational operating system. From the TEDx stage to lists like Crain’s 40 Under 40, Building Design + Construction 40 Under 40, and SMART BUSINESS Dealmaker of the Year, Chris’ reputation precedes him. But it’s the journey ahead—and the people he’s asked to help lead the way—that excites him most.

Nearly every nonprofit organization I know believes the people they serve deserve the highest level of excellence. However, the challenge is they are so focused on serving those outwardly, they don’t spend enough time, talent, and energy on their inward, internal systems that will ensure greater impact and greater reach. As a result, they cannot serve their communities at the level they want to. I lead a Detroit-based nonprofit that revitalizes neighborhoods. Our first four years were pretty messy, but then we hit our stride. Over the next eight years, our organization invested more than $43 million into Detroit neighborhoods, renovated four school buildings, mobilized more than 77,000 volunteers, and beautified over 2,000 city blocks. We’ve been recognized as one of the best-managed nonprofits and Candid and Charity Navigator have awarded us their highest possible ratings. How did we do it? By creating a system we call Next Level Nonprofit, and I’m going to show listeners how to implement this practical and proven organizational operating system so they will soon be able to build the dream team they've been longing for… and increase lasting impact.

More at - https://www.nlncoaching.org

 

BHPT - https://d1aettbyeyfilo.cloudfront.net/synervision/31062054_1699997490695BHPT_Formatting_Revision_2022.pdf 

MSBL - https://d1aettbyeyfilo.cloudfront.net/synervision/31062053_1699997486633MSLB_2022_Update.pdf 



Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2023 22:01:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Next Level Nonprofit: How to Build A Dream Team and Increase Lasting Impact</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dr. Chris Lambert</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Next Level Nonprofit: How to Build A Dream Team and Increase Lasting Impact
Dr. Chris Lambert is the author of Next Level Nonprofit and Founder/CEO of Life Remodeled. Chris originally pursued a degree in marketing at Indiana University with the hope of attending law school and launching a career as a real estate developer. A spiritual awakening during his junior year led to a passion to follow Jesus, and Chris eventually followed a call to Fuller and Gordon-Conwell seminaries, where he earned his MDiv and doctorate in preaching. Moving to Liberia in 2007, he and his wife helped a village raise the necessary resources for a well, farm animals, and a new school building. Upon returning to the U.S., Chris founded a church called Ekklesia. In 2010 he started Life Remodeled, which repurposes vacant school buildings into one-stop hubs of opportunities and helps create neighborhood revitalization that lasts. Additionally, he and his dream team built and launched the Next Level Nonprofit organizational operating system. From the TEDx stage to lists like Crain’s 40 Under 40, Building Design + Construction 40 Under 40, and SMART BUSINESS Dealmaker of the Year, Chris’ reputation precedes him. But it’s the journey ahead—and the people he’s asked to help lead the way—that excites him most.

Nearly every nonprofit organization I know believes the people they serve deserve the highest level of excellence. However, the challenge is they are so focused on serving those outwardly, they don’t spend enough time, talent, and energy on their inward, internal systems that will ensure greater impact and greater reach. As a result, they cannot serve their communities at the level they want to. I lead a Detroit-based nonprofit that revitalizes neighborhoods. Our first four years were pretty messy, but then we hit our stride. Over the next eight years, our organization invested more than $43 million into Detroit neighborhoods, renovated four school buildings, mobilized more than 77,000 volunteers, and beautified over 2,000 city blocks. We’ve been recognized as one of the best-managed nonprofits and Candid and Charity Navigator have awarded us their highest possible ratings. How did we do it? By creating a system we call Next Level Nonprofit, and I’m going to show listeners how to implement this practical and proven organizational operating system so they will soon be able to build the dream team they've been longing for… and increase lasting impact.

More at - https://www.nlncoaching.org

 

BHPT - https://d1aettbyeyfilo.cloudfront.net/synervision/31062054_1699997490695BHPT_Formatting_Revision_2022.pdf 

MSBL - https://d1aettbyeyfilo.cloudfront.net/synervision/31062053_1699997486633MSLB_2022_Update.pdf 



Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><br></p><h1><strong>Next Level Nonprofit: How to Build A Dream Team and Increase Lasting Impact</strong></h1><p>Dr. Chris Lambert is the author of Next Level Nonprofit and Founder/CEO of Life Remodeled. Chris originally pursued a degree in marketing at Indiana University with the hope of attending law school and launching a career as a real estate developer. A spiritual awakening during his junior year led to a passion to follow Jesus, and Chris eventually followed a call to Fuller and Gordon-Conwell seminaries, where he earned his MDiv and doctorate in preaching. Moving to Liberia in 2007, he and his wife helped a village raise the necessary resources for a well, farm animals, and a new school building. Upon returning to the U.S., Chris founded a church called Ekklesia. In 2010 he started Life Remodeled, which repurposes vacant school buildings into one-stop hubs of opportunities and helps create neighborhood revitalization that lasts. Additionally, he and his dream team built and launched the Next Level Nonprofit organizational operating system. From the TEDx stage to lists like Crain’s 40 Under 40, Building Design + Construction 40 Under 40, and SMART BUSINESS Dealmaker of the Year, Chris’ reputation precedes him. But it’s the journey ahead—and the people he’s asked to help lead the way—that excites him most.</p><p><br></p><p>Nearly every nonprofit organization I know believes the people they serve deserve the highest level of excellence. However, the challenge is they are so focused on serving those outwardly, they don’t spend enough time, talent, and energy on their inward, internal systems that will ensure greater impact and greater reach. As a result, they cannot serve their communities at the level they want to. I lead a Detroit-based nonprofit that revitalizes neighborhoods. Our first four years were pretty messy, but then we hit our stride. Over the next eight years, our organization invested more than $43 million into Detroit neighborhoods, renovated four school buildings, mobilized more than 77,000 volunteers, and beautified over 2,000 city blocks. We’ve been recognized as one of the best-managed nonprofits and Candid and Charity Navigator have awarded us their highest possible ratings. How did we do it? By creating a system we call Next Level Nonprofit, and I’m going to show listeners how to implement this practical and proven organizational operating system so they will soon be able to build the dream team they've been longing for… and increase lasting impact.</p><p><br></p><p>More at - <a href="https://www.nlncoaching.org/">https://www.nlncoaching.org</a></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p><br></p><p>BHPT - <a href="https://d1aettbyeyfilo.cloudfront.net/synervision/31062054_1699997490695BHPT_Formatting_Revision_2022.pdf">https://d1aettbyeyfilo.cloudfront.net/synervision/31062054_1699997490695BHPT_Formatting_Revision_2022.pdf</a> </p><p><br></p><p>MSBL - <a href="https://d1aettbyeyfilo.cloudfront.net/synervision/31062053_1699997486633MSLB_2022_Update.pdf">https://d1aettbyeyfilo.cloudfront.net/synervision/31062053_1699997486633MSLB_2022_Update.pdf</a> </p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2159</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6643504945.mp3?updated=1699999569" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leadership Excellence with Dr. Jeffrey Magee</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/11/07/npe-leadership-excellence/</link>
      <description>Leadership Excellence with Dr. Jeffrey Magee

Dr. Jeffrey Magee has been called one of today's leading "Leadership &amp; Marketing Strategists." Jeff works with C-Suite, Business Leaders, Military Generals &amp; CEO2CEO Peer Groups across America. He is an author of more than 20 books, three college graduate management text books, four best sellers, and is the Publisher of PERFORMANCE/P360 Magazine. Former Co-Host of the national business entrepreneur program on Catalyst Business Radio and a Human Capital Developer for more than twenty years.
Jeff is an experienced and entertaining keynote speaker - having spoken at hundreds of seminars and conferences across North America.
Jeff's high-energy style is on full display while delivering his hurricane-paced insight, humor, and real-world experience. Speaking on topics relating to his "Big 3 Areas" - Personal Professional Growth, Sales Mastery, and Leadership.
Jeff regularly works with individuals, small groups, and large onganizations - helping them to achieve their goals. Through 1 on 1 coaching or a variety of consulting services, Jeff will work with you in a way that best fits your situation and your needs.
Read more below about the specific programs and focus areas that Jeff is best equipped to help you make the biggest impact

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 07 Nov 2023 21:58:56 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leadership Excellence with Dr. Jeffrey Magee</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leadership and Accountability</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leadership Excellence with Dr. Jeffrey Magee

Dr. Jeffrey Magee has been called one of today's leading "Leadership &amp; Marketing Strategists." Jeff works with C-Suite, Business Leaders, Military Generals &amp; CEO2CEO Peer Groups across America. He is an author of more than 20 books, three college graduate management text books, four best sellers, and is the Publisher of PERFORMANCE/P360 Magazine. Former Co-Host of the national business entrepreneur program on Catalyst Business Radio and a Human Capital Developer for more than twenty years.
Jeff is an experienced and entertaining keynote speaker - having spoken at hundreds of seminars and conferences across North America.
Jeff's high-energy style is on full display while delivering his hurricane-paced insight, humor, and real-world experience. Speaking on topics relating to his "Big 3 Areas" - Personal Professional Growth, Sales Mastery, and Leadership.
Jeff regularly works with individuals, small groups, and large onganizations - helping them to achieve their goals. Through 1 on 1 coaching or a variety of consulting services, Jeff will work with you in a way that best fits your situation and your needs.
Read more below about the specific programs and focus areas that Jeff is best equipped to help you make the biggest impact

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Leadership Excellence with Dr. Jeffrey Magee</strong></h1><p><br></p><p><strong>Dr. Jeffrey Magee</strong> has been called one of today's leading "Leadership &amp; Marketing Strategists." Jeff works with C-Suite, Business Leaders, Military Generals &amp; CEO2CEO Peer Groups across America. He is an author of more than 20 books, three college graduate management text books, four best sellers, and is the Publisher of <a href="http://professionalperformancemagazine.com/">PERFORMANCE/P360 Magazine</a>. Former Co-Host of the national business entrepreneur program on <a href="http://www.catalystbusinessradio.com/index.php">Catalyst Business Radio</a> and a Human Capital Developer for more than twenty years.</p><p>Jeff is an experienced and entertaining keynote speaker - having spoken at hundreds of seminars and conferences across North America.</p><p>Jeff's high-energy style is on full display while delivering his hurricane-paced insight, humor, and real-world experience. Speaking on topics relating to his "Big 3 Areas" - Personal Professional Growth, Sales Mastery, and Leadership.</p><p>Jeff regularly works with individuals, small groups, and large onganizations - helping them to achieve their goals. Through 1 on 1 coaching or a variety of consulting services, Jeff will work with you in a way that best fits your situation and your needs.</p><p>Read more below about the specific programs and focus areas that Jeff is best equipped to help you make the biggest impact</p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1617</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2675028717.mp3?updated=1699394877" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Growing To Give: Freeing People From Hunger</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/10/31/npe-growing-to-give/</link>
      <description>Growing To Give: Freeing People From Hunger
Imagine A World where the most resourceful and productive community farms and gardens thrive, nourishing communities with fresh and sustainable produce. Now, imagine those farm and gardens being gifted to communities who are passionate about sustaining them for years to come. That's what we're all about at Growing to Give ® - creating a movement of generosity and empowerment through innovation in agriculture.
Agriculture is not just a means of survival for people in need in these communities but also a source of pride and purpose. It's a way for people to connect with the land and with each other, a way to grow to give, learn new skills, and to contribute to the common good. By promoting sustainable farm and garden practices, Growing To Give intends to free millions from hunger
Siobhan (Chevon) Shaw is the driving force behind the establishment of Growing to Give, where she serves as the Co-Founder and C.
hair. GrowingtoGive.org is a global organization comprising experts, innovators, and supporters in climate-resilient agriculture, dedicated to introducing low tech solutions for ensuring food security.
Siobhan holds unparalleled expertise in Crop Circle farming, a unique and sustainable agricultural system, making her the sole female authority on this subject worldwide. She champions the cause of empowering women in farming, striving to increase their representation in local communities. Her conviction lies in the belief that by providing women with the knowledge of growing food, they can nourish not just their families but their entire communities.
Growing to Give implements food growing systems that optimize resource utilization and foster high-yield farming within the community. These systems are specifically designed to significantly minimize water, space, and fertilizer requirements, surpassing the efficiency of traditional farming methods. Siobhan collaborates with a dedicated team of over 60 professional volunteers spanning diverse fields such as agriculture, marketing, project management, legal services, sustainability, and fundraising. Together, they forge partnerships with key agencies and community-driven corporations to donate, install, and train resource-challenged regions in adopting these sustainable farming practices.
The collective efforts of Growing to Give yield far-reaching benefits, not only in terms of earth-friendly and community-centered farms but also in building more resilient, happier, and healthier communities overall.
For More information go to https://growingtogive.org  
 
 
Or the one from our website, 
 
Siobhan, Co-founder and Chair of Growing to Give brings her passion for people to the team. An advocate for women in agriculture, she has years of experience in promotion in the social impact space which has given her impassioned insight into the human condition and a profound empathy for humanity.
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2023 19:22:15 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Growing To Give: Freeing People From Hunger</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Building Sustainable Community Gardens</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Growing To Give: Freeing People From Hunger
Imagine A World where the most resourceful and productive community farms and gardens thrive, nourishing communities with fresh and sustainable produce. Now, imagine those farm and gardens being gifted to communities who are passionate about sustaining them for years to come. That's what we're all about at Growing to Give ® - creating a movement of generosity and empowerment through innovation in agriculture.
Agriculture is not just a means of survival for people in need in these communities but also a source of pride and purpose. It's a way for people to connect with the land and with each other, a way to grow to give, learn new skills, and to contribute to the common good. By promoting sustainable farm and garden practices, Growing To Give intends to free millions from hunger
Siobhan (Chevon) Shaw is the driving force behind the establishment of Growing to Give, where she serves as the Co-Founder and C.
hair. GrowingtoGive.org is a global organization comprising experts, innovators, and supporters in climate-resilient agriculture, dedicated to introducing low tech solutions for ensuring food security.
Siobhan holds unparalleled expertise in Crop Circle farming, a unique and sustainable agricultural system, making her the sole female authority on this subject worldwide. She champions the cause of empowering women in farming, striving to increase their representation in local communities. Her conviction lies in the belief that by providing women with the knowledge of growing food, they can nourish not just their families but their entire communities.
Growing to Give implements food growing systems that optimize resource utilization and foster high-yield farming within the community. These systems are specifically designed to significantly minimize water, space, and fertilizer requirements, surpassing the efficiency of traditional farming methods. Siobhan collaborates with a dedicated team of over 60 professional volunteers spanning diverse fields such as agriculture, marketing, project management, legal services, sustainability, and fundraising. Together, they forge partnerships with key agencies and community-driven corporations to donate, install, and train resource-challenged regions in adopting these sustainable farming practices.
The collective efforts of Growing to Give yield far-reaching benefits, not only in terms of earth-friendly and community-centered farms but also in building more resilient, happier, and healthier communities overall.
For More information go to https://growingtogive.org  
 
 
Or the one from our website, 
 
Siobhan, Co-founder and Chair of Growing to Give brings her passion for people to the team. An advocate for women in agriculture, she has years of experience in promotion in the social impact space which has given her impassioned insight into the human condition and a profound empathy for humanity.
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Growing To Give: Freeing People From Hunger</strong></p><p><strong>Imagine A World</strong> where the most resourceful and productive community farms and gardens thrive, nourishing communities with fresh and sustainable produce. Now, imagine those farm and gardens being gifted to communities who are passionate about sustaining them for years to come. That's what we're all about at Growing to Give ® - creating a movement of generosity and empowerment through innovation in agriculture.</p><p>Agriculture is not just a means of survival for people in need in these communities but also a source of pride and purpose. It's a way for people to connect with the land and with each other, a way to grow to give, learn new skills, and to contribute to the common good. By promoting sustainable farm and garden practices, Growing To Give intends to free millions from hunger</p><p><strong>Siobhan (Chevon) Shaw</strong> is the driving force behind the establishment of Growing to Give, where she serves as the Co-Founder and C.</p><p>hair. GrowingtoGive.org is a global organization comprising experts, innovators, and supporters in climate-resilient agriculture, dedicated to introducing low tech solutions for ensuring food security.</p><p>Siobhan holds unparalleled expertise in Crop Circle farming, a unique and sustainable agricultural system, making her the sole female authority on this subject worldwide. She champions the cause of empowering women in farming, striving to increase their representation in local communities. Her conviction lies in the belief that by providing women with the knowledge of growing food, they can nourish not just their families but their entire communities.</p><p>Growing to Give implements food growing systems that optimize resource utilization and foster high-yield farming within the community. These systems are specifically designed to significantly minimize water, space, and fertilizer requirements, surpassing the efficiency of traditional farming methods. Siobhan collaborates with a dedicated team of over 60 professional volunteers spanning diverse fields such as agriculture, marketing, project management, legal services, sustainability, and fundraising. Together, they forge partnerships with key agencies and community-driven corporations to donate, install, and train resource-challenged regions in adopting these sustainable farming practices.</p><p>The collective efforts of Growing to Give yield far-reaching benefits, not only in terms of earth-friendly and community-centered farms but also in building more resilient, happier, and healthier communities overall.</p><p>For More information go to <a href="https://growingtogive.org/">https://growingtogive.org</a>  </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Or the one from our website, </p><p> </p><p>Siobhan, Co-founder and Chair of Growing to Give brings her passion for people to the team. An advocate for women in agriculture, she has years of experience in promotion in the social impact space which has given her impassioned insight into the human condition and a profound empathy for humanity.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1969</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[b50109ba-7822-11ee-9221-d7679f9b13cc]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9366696825.mp3?updated=1698780397" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Love Heals: The Amazing Power of Love</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/10/24/npe-love-heals/</link>
      <description>Love Heals: The Amazing Power of Love
It's enough even if just 1 person shows up to your event, program, or service. Do for the 1 what you would do for the masses.

My name is Courtney Green and I am the founder of Love Heals, a nonprofit based out of Lynchburg, VA. From bartender to Executive Director, I have been on a winding road of building Love Heals since 2018 when we hosted our first benefit concert for my friend who had breast cancer. Hired officially in March of 2023, Love Heals is now in a place to become a national organization and I am working hard alongside my team to build a world where no one walks through hardship alone.
For more information go to -https://www.weareloveheals.org/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2023 19:29:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Love Heals: The Amazing Power of Love</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leading a Service Nonprofit with Courtney Green</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Love Heals: The Amazing Power of Love
It's enough even if just 1 person shows up to your event, program, or service. Do for the 1 what you would do for the masses.

My name is Courtney Green and I am the founder of Love Heals, a nonprofit based out of Lynchburg, VA. From bartender to Executive Director, I have been on a winding road of building Love Heals since 2018 when we hosted our first benefit concert for my friend who had breast cancer. Hired officially in March of 2023, Love Heals is now in a place to become a national organization and I am working hard alongside my team to build a world where no one walks through hardship alone.
For more information go to -https://www.weareloveheals.org/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Love Heals: The Amazing Power of Love</p><p>It's enough even if just 1 person shows up to your event, program, or service. Do for the 1 what you would do for the masses.</p><p><br></p><p>My name is Courtney Green and I am the founder of Love Heals, a nonprofit based out of Lynchburg, VA. From bartender to Executive Director, I have been on a winding road of building Love Heals since 2018 when we hosted our first benefit concert for my friend who had breast cancer. Hired officially in March of 2023, Love Heals is now in a place to become a national organization and I am working hard alongside my team to build a world where no one walks through hardship alone.</p><p>For more information go to -<a href="https://www.weareloveheals.org/">https://www.weareloveheals.org/</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1635</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[b0a3931c-72a3-11ee-97ff-8f5e8e7da6bd]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8178239363.mp3?updated=1698176087" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Rubber Band Rule of Respect: 7 Forms of Respect, communication skills in the workplace</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/10/17/npe-respect/</link>
      <description>The Rubber Band Rule of Respect: 7 Forms of Respect, communication skills in the workplace

Dr. Julie Pham is the founder and CEO of CuriosityBased, an organizational development firm based in Seattle. Dr. Pham has been recognized with numerous awards for her community leadership. She has applied her community building approach to building strong, collaborative, and curious teams. She was born in Saigon, Vietnam, and raised in Seattle. Dr. Pham earned her Ph.D. in history at Cambridge University as a Gates Cambridge Scholar and she graduated magna cum laude from the University of California, Berkeley as a Haas Scholar. She earned her real life MBA by running her family’s Vietnamese language newspaper during the Great Recession. She has worked as a journalist, historian, university lecturer, marketer, nonprofit executive, and management consultant.

More at http://www.curiositybased.com 

Free book at 7 Forms of Respect: A Guide to Transforming Your Communication and Relationships at Work Leadership book lists: https://curiositybased.com/resources/#books 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2023 20:22:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Rubber Band Rule of Respect: 7 Forms of Respect, communication skills in the workplace</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>7 Forms of Respect with Julie Pham, Ph. D.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Rubber Band Rule of Respect: 7 Forms of Respect, communication skills in the workplace

Dr. Julie Pham is the founder and CEO of CuriosityBased, an organizational development firm based in Seattle. Dr. Pham has been recognized with numerous awards for her community leadership. She has applied her community building approach to building strong, collaborative, and curious teams. She was born in Saigon, Vietnam, and raised in Seattle. Dr. Pham earned her Ph.D. in history at Cambridge University as a Gates Cambridge Scholar and she graduated magna cum laude from the University of California, Berkeley as a Haas Scholar. She earned her real life MBA by running her family’s Vietnamese language newspaper during the Great Recession. She has worked as a journalist, historian, university lecturer, marketer, nonprofit executive, and management consultant.

More at http://www.curiositybased.com 

Free book at 7 Forms of Respect: A Guide to Transforming Your Communication and Relationships at Work Leadership book lists: https://curiositybased.com/resources/#books 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>The Rubber Band Rule of Respect: 7 Forms of Respect, communication skills in the workplace</strong></p><p><br></p><p>Dr. Julie Pham is the founder and CEO of CuriosityBased, an organizational development firm based in Seattle. Dr. Pham has been recognized with numerous awards for her community leadership. She has applied her community building approach to building strong, collaborative, and curious teams. She was born in Saigon, Vietnam, and raised in Seattle. Dr. Pham earned her Ph.D. in history at Cambridge University as a Gates Cambridge Scholar and she graduated magna cum laude from the University of California, Berkeley as a Haas Scholar. She earned her real life MBA by running her family’s Vietnamese language newspaper during the Great Recession. She has worked as a journalist, historian, university lecturer, marketer, nonprofit executive, and management consultant.</p><p><br></p><p>More at <a href="http://www.curiositybased.com">http://www.curiositybased.com</a> </p><p><br></p><p>Free book at 7 Forms of Respect: A Guide to Transforming Your Communication and Relationships at Work Leadership book lists: <a href="https://curiositybased.com/resources/#books">https://curiositybased.com/resources/#books</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1682</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[eb01abee-6d2a-11ee-943d-87451cdb451f]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8386320246.mp3?updated=1697574460" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>How to influence our peers to step into a different space with us…Staying together verses staying apart. Impacting the lives of incarcerated youth: Come to Jail with Haley Hunt</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/10/11/npe-impacting-incacerated-youth/</link>
      <description>How to influence our peers to step into a different space with us…Staying together verses staying apart. Impacting the lives of incarcerated youth: Come to Jail with Haley Hunt

Producer | Sports Media | Philanthropist | Brand Management | Music 
Daughter of an Alabama National Champion, Haley Hunt was raised on college football &amp; a deep faith. Her space in the music industry as an aspiring artist at a young age helped give her more insight into what “making it" in life actually means. 
She spent the last 10 years helping develop and launch brands from food concepts and fragrances to candles and apparel. She spent a period of time working with NFL receiver Brandon Marshall’s brand, House Of Athlete, as a creative strategist and producer for everything from creative content production to player/ talent liaison. 
She helped produce the HOA 2021 NFL Combine, and most recently launched the first annual "Entrepreneur Showcase" at the NFL Hall of Fame, highlighting professional athletes and their brands. She also was the director of content for Pylon sports and produced a YouTube series called 7 Ships where she traveled around telling incredible comeback stories of athletes. 
Outside of sports, Haley is the CEO of The VERB Kind, a nonprofit she founded, with the mission to mentor and impact incarcerated youth across the US. She started in her hometown of Orlando, Florida, and has now spread the mission across the state in 9 counties and one in Alabama. With a team of over 400 volunteer mentors, her movement #ComeToJailWithMe has taken the nation by storm and impacting lives everywhere! 
More at https://www.theverbkind.com


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2023 01:18:40 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How to influence our peers to step into a different space with us…Staying together verses staying apart. Impacting the lives of incarcerated youth: Come to Jail with Haley Hunt</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Verb Kind nonprofit Founder Haley Hunt</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How to influence our peers to step into a different space with us…Staying together verses staying apart. Impacting the lives of incarcerated youth: Come to Jail with Haley Hunt

Producer | Sports Media | Philanthropist | Brand Management | Music 
Daughter of an Alabama National Champion, Haley Hunt was raised on college football &amp; a deep faith. Her space in the music industry as an aspiring artist at a young age helped give her more insight into what “making it" in life actually means. 
She spent the last 10 years helping develop and launch brands from food concepts and fragrances to candles and apparel. She spent a period of time working with NFL receiver Brandon Marshall’s brand, House Of Athlete, as a creative strategist and producer for everything from creative content production to player/ talent liaison. 
She helped produce the HOA 2021 NFL Combine, and most recently launched the first annual "Entrepreneur Showcase" at the NFL Hall of Fame, highlighting professional athletes and their brands. She also was the director of content for Pylon sports and produced a YouTube series called 7 Ships where she traveled around telling incredible comeback stories of athletes. 
Outside of sports, Haley is the CEO of The VERB Kind, a nonprofit she founded, with the mission to mentor and impact incarcerated youth across the US. She started in her hometown of Orlando, Florida, and has now spread the mission across the state in 9 counties and one in Alabama. With a team of over 400 volunteer mentors, her movement #ComeToJailWithMe has taken the nation by storm and impacting lives everywhere! 
More at https://www.theverbkind.com


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>How to influence our peers to step into a different space with us…Staying together verses staying apart. Impacting the lives of incarcerated youth: Come to Jail with Haley Hunt</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Producer | Sports Media | Philanthropist | Brand Management | Music </strong></p><p>Daughter of an Alabama National Champion, Haley Hunt was raised on college football &amp; a deep faith. Her space in the music industry as an aspiring artist at a young age helped give her more insight into what “making it" in life actually means. </p><p>She spent the last 10 years helping develop and launch brands from food concepts and fragrances to candles and apparel. She spent a period of time working with NFL receiver Brandon Marshall’s brand, House Of Athlete, as a creative strategist and producer for everything from creative content production to player/ talent liaison. </p><p>She helped produce the HOA 2021 NFL Combine, and most recently launched the first annual "Entrepreneur Showcase" at the NFL Hall of Fame, highlighting professional athletes and their brands. She also was the director of content for Pylon sports and produced a YouTube series called 7 Ships where she traveled around telling incredible comeback stories of athletes. </p><p>Outside of sports, Haley is the CEO of <em>The VERB Kind</em>, a nonprofit she founded, with the mission to mentor and impact incarcerated youth across the US. She started in her hometown of Orlando, Florida, and has now spread the mission across the state in 9 counties and one in Alabama. With a team of over 400 volunteer mentors, her movement #ComeToJailWithMe has taken the nation by storm and impacting lives everywhere! </p><p>More at <a href="https://www.theverbkind.com">https://www.theverbkind.com</a></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1537</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>How Giving Local Sparked a Global Movement</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/10/03/npe-philanthropy/</link>
      <description>How Giving Local Sparked a Global Movement: Interview with Impact100 Founder, Wendy Steele

If you have trouble asking board members, friends, and acquaintances to support your work financially, this podcast episode is for you! Please listen in as we unpack the benefits of generosity and reframe philanthropy as an honor and responsibility for all - not just the wealthy.

Recognized by Forbes in 2021 as one of 50 women over 50 who are leading the world in impact, Wendy H. Steele is the Founder of Impact100, a grassroots global movement in women’s philanthropy. Since inception in 2001, Impact100 chapters have invested more than $120 million in local nonprofits across more than 65 cities and four countries. Steele’s work in philanthropy is noted in several books including, The Transformative Power of Women’s Philanthropy; Women, Wealth and Giving; Women’s Giving Circles; and The Right Sisters – Modern Women Inventors. PBS Television created an hour-long documentary entitled, Impact 100: Changing Lives, Strengthening Communities, which highlights the work of Impact100 Pensacola Bay Area, the world’s largest Impact100 organization. In 2020, Wendy was named a Distinguished Honoree of the Jones Prize in Philanthropy, which "honors someone who demonstrates the willingness to volunteer time, resources, and talents to improve the human condition, beyond themselves." Considered the Nobel Prize for community service, Steele was awarded the 2014 Jefferson Award for Public Service for her work with Impact100. The importance of giving back with the intent to leave the world a little better than she found it was instilled in her from a young age, leading her to see that each of us has something important to give. She observes that there are two kinds of people: those who see the problems in the world and realize they can be a part of the solution and those who still need to be invited to the party.

More at https://impact100global.org/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 03 Oct 2023 19:06:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How Giving Local Sparked a Global Movement</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Impact100 Founder, Wendy Steele</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How Giving Local Sparked a Global Movement: Interview with Impact100 Founder, Wendy Steele

If you have trouble asking board members, friends, and acquaintances to support your work financially, this podcast episode is for you! Please listen in as we unpack the benefits of generosity and reframe philanthropy as an honor and responsibility for all - not just the wealthy.

Recognized by Forbes in 2021 as one of 50 women over 50 who are leading the world in impact, Wendy H. Steele is the Founder of Impact100, a grassroots global movement in women’s philanthropy. Since inception in 2001, Impact100 chapters have invested more than $120 million in local nonprofits across more than 65 cities and four countries. Steele’s work in philanthropy is noted in several books including, The Transformative Power of Women’s Philanthropy; Women, Wealth and Giving; Women’s Giving Circles; and The Right Sisters – Modern Women Inventors. PBS Television created an hour-long documentary entitled, Impact 100: Changing Lives, Strengthening Communities, which highlights the work of Impact100 Pensacola Bay Area, the world’s largest Impact100 organization. In 2020, Wendy was named a Distinguished Honoree of the Jones Prize in Philanthropy, which "honors someone who demonstrates the willingness to volunteer time, resources, and talents to improve the human condition, beyond themselves." Considered the Nobel Prize for community service, Steele was awarded the 2014 Jefferson Award for Public Service for her work with Impact100. The importance of giving back with the intent to leave the world a little better than she found it was instilled in her from a young age, leading her to see that each of us has something important to give. She observes that there are two kinds of people: those who see the problems in the world and realize they can be a part of the solution and those who still need to be invited to the party.

More at https://impact100global.org/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>How Giving Local Sparked a Global Movement: Interview with Impact100 Founder, Wendy Steele</h1><p><br></p><p>If you have trouble asking board members, friends, and acquaintances to support your work financially, this podcast episode is for you! Please listen in as we unpack the benefits of generosity and reframe philanthropy as an honor and responsibility for all - not just the wealthy.</p><p><br></p><p>Recognized by Forbes in 2021 as one of 50 women over 50 who are leading the world in impact, Wendy H. Steele is the Founder of Impact100, a grassroots global movement in women’s philanthropy. Since inception in 2001, Impact100 chapters have invested more than $120 million in local nonprofits across more than 65 cities and four countries. Steele’s work in philanthropy is noted in several books including, The Transformative Power of Women’s Philanthropy; Women, Wealth and Giving; Women’s Giving Circles; and The Right Sisters – Modern Women Inventors. PBS Television created an hour-long documentary entitled, Impact 100: Changing Lives, Strengthening Communities, which highlights the work of Impact100 Pensacola Bay Area, the world’s largest Impact100 organization. In 2020, Wendy was named a Distinguished Honoree of the Jones Prize in Philanthropy, which "honors someone who demonstrates the willingness to volunteer time, resources, and talents to improve the human condition, beyond themselves." Considered the Nobel Prize for community service, Steele was awarded the 2014 Jefferson Award for Public Service for her work with Impact100. The importance of giving back with the intent to leave the world a little better than she found it was instilled in her from a young age, leading her to see that each of us has something important to give. She observes that there are two kinds of people: those who see the problems in the world and realize they can be a part of the solution and those who still need to be invited to the party.</p><p><br></p><p>More at <a href="https://impact100global.org/">https://impact100global.org/</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1731</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Is Life Only One Pie? How Leaders Reach Their Full Potential</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/09/27/npe-leadership-potential/</link>
      <description>Bringing together people in community is critical for our future. We need to continue bridging the gaps in understanding and learn to show empathy towards others.
Nikki Green is a Life &amp; Business Resiliency Expert who has been in the international business industry for over 20 years and is a 4x published author. Nikki is an avid traveler, visiting 14+ countries and completing 7 marathons and dozens of triathlons across 3 continents. Nikki has dedicated her life to assisting others reduce their fear and go after their dreams. Nikki's greatest passion is empowering people to reach their full potential.
More about Nikki Green at https://thenikkigreen.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 27 Sep 2023 16:12:32 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Is Life Only One Pie? How Leaders Reach Their Full Potential</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Nikki Green</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Bringing together people in community is critical for our future. We need to continue bridging the gaps in understanding and learn to show empathy towards others.
Nikki Green is a Life &amp; Business Resiliency Expert who has been in the international business industry for over 20 years and is a 4x published author. Nikki is an avid traveler, visiting 14+ countries and completing 7 marathons and dozens of triathlons across 3 continents. Nikki has dedicated her life to assisting others reduce their fear and go after their dreams. Nikki's greatest passion is empowering people to reach their full potential.
More about Nikki Green at https://thenikkigreen.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Bringing together people in community is critical for our future. We need to continue bridging the gaps in understanding and learn to show empathy towards others.</p><p>Nikki Green is a Life &amp; Business Resiliency Expert who has been in the international business industry for over 20 years and is a 4x published author. Nikki is an avid traveler, visiting 14+ countries and completing 7 marathons and dozens of triathlons across 3 continents. Nikki has dedicated her life to assisting others reduce their fear and go after their dreams. Nikki's greatest passion is empowering people to reach their full potential.</p><p>More about Nikki Green at <a href="https://thenikkigreen.com/"><strong>https://thenikkigreen.com/</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1694</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[b9203774-5d50-11ee-ba57-27602693afed]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2926163534.mp3?updated=1695831479" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Ensuring Fundability for Your Nonprofit</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/ensuring-fundability/</link>
      <description>Ensuring Fundability for Your Nonprofit: Interview with Jeffrey Fulgham CFRE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Ensuring Fundability for Your Nonprofit</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Jeffrey Fulgham CFRE</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Ensuring Fundability for Your Nonprofit: Interview with Jeffrey Fulgham CFRE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Ensuring Fundability for Your Nonprofit: Interview with Jeffrey Fulgham CFRE</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2659</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[ae91d41c-0238-11ed-b902-d778f7ee80b9]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1244103522.mp3?updated=1657717570" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Dreamers That Ignite Change: How to Become a True Visionary</title>
      <description>Dreamers That Ignite Change: How to Become a True Visionary
John Renouard is the founder and executive director of the nonprofit WHOlives. While visiting Africa in 2010, John was taken aback that the lives of nearly all little girls and most women revolved around the daily burden of collecting contaminated water for their survival. After several months of contemplation, a solution finally came to him in the middle of the night. A transformative idea that has changed the lives of over 12 million people. John worked with a group of university engineering students to bring to life his dream of a human-powered water drill that could access clean water hundreds of feet below the surface. The Village Drill has since created more than 13,000 wells in 37+ countries, empowering more than 12 million people with clean water, better health, and renewed opportunities.
More recently, John became aware of the inhumane practice of FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) and the selling of Child Brides where girls as young as 8 years old are brutally cut in preparation to be sold to men for labor and self-gratification. In just the past 6 months John's innovative efforts have been near miraculous. WHOlives has done more in 6 months than the combined efforts of 10 NGOs over the past 10 years. During the past cutting season, WHOlives efforts rescued over 2000 vulnerable girls and led to the arrests of over 60 perpetrators and is on track to not only reduce this crime against women but actually eliminate the practice altogether.
The American Red Cross presented him with an International Hero Award in 2015.
Connect with John at WHOlives.org
John's words about this interview, "Ordinary people have incredibly intuitive solutions to many of the world’s “unsolvable” issues. I want the audience to walk away feeling empowered with the knowledge that it should be YOU who looks at an unsolvable issue and then comes up with an audaciously simple solution that breaks barriers.
 A good example is Muhammad Yunus, a simple banker who saw a social issue of women beggars and wondered what could be done to help. To everyone’s surprise, the simple answer he came up with was a $27 loan. 
I want to use two of my personal experiences in solving unsolvable issues. One is the Village Drill, my invention to help solve the world’s deadly water problems, which to date has created clean water for over 12 million people. 
The second solution is a new idea on how to approach ending the unspeakable act of FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) and the selling of “child brides.” My simple idea successfully led to the rescue of over 2,000 girls and the arrest of over 50 individuals, and we’re now on track to end this practice in Kenya. 
The goal is to motivate, inspire and teach the steps on how any individual, even without training or experience, can really break barriers and make a difference on the “impossible” issues we face today, no matter if they exist in our own neighborhoods, our cities or even on the other side of the world. 
I want to dispel the idea that these problems are better solved by committees, governments or think tanks. 
I emphasize that SIMPLE does not mean EASY. It will take grit and determination. You will have “experts” scoff at you, and academics will shun you – that is, of course, until you have proven them all wrong." 


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2023 19:50:03 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Dreamers That Ignite Change: How to Become a True Visionary</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Nonprofit Founder John Renouard</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Dreamers That Ignite Change: How to Become a True Visionary
John Renouard is the founder and executive director of the nonprofit WHOlives. While visiting Africa in 2010, John was taken aback that the lives of nearly all little girls and most women revolved around the daily burden of collecting contaminated water for their survival. After several months of contemplation, a solution finally came to him in the middle of the night. A transformative idea that has changed the lives of over 12 million people. John worked with a group of university engineering students to bring to life his dream of a human-powered water drill that could access clean water hundreds of feet below the surface. The Village Drill has since created more than 13,000 wells in 37+ countries, empowering more than 12 million people with clean water, better health, and renewed opportunities.
More recently, John became aware of the inhumane practice of FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) and the selling of Child Brides where girls as young as 8 years old are brutally cut in preparation to be sold to men for labor and self-gratification. In just the past 6 months John's innovative efforts have been near miraculous. WHOlives has done more in 6 months than the combined efforts of 10 NGOs over the past 10 years. During the past cutting season, WHOlives efforts rescued over 2000 vulnerable girls and led to the arrests of over 60 perpetrators and is on track to not only reduce this crime against women but actually eliminate the practice altogether.
The American Red Cross presented him with an International Hero Award in 2015.
Connect with John at WHOlives.org
John's words about this interview, "Ordinary people have incredibly intuitive solutions to many of the world’s “unsolvable” issues. I want the audience to walk away feeling empowered with the knowledge that it should be YOU who looks at an unsolvable issue and then comes up with an audaciously simple solution that breaks barriers.
 A good example is Muhammad Yunus, a simple banker who saw a social issue of women beggars and wondered what could be done to help. To everyone’s surprise, the simple answer he came up with was a $27 loan. 
I want to use two of my personal experiences in solving unsolvable issues. One is the Village Drill, my invention to help solve the world’s deadly water problems, which to date has created clean water for over 12 million people. 
The second solution is a new idea on how to approach ending the unspeakable act of FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) and the selling of “child brides.” My simple idea successfully led to the rescue of over 2,000 girls and the arrest of over 50 individuals, and we’re now on track to end this practice in Kenya. 
The goal is to motivate, inspire and teach the steps on how any individual, even without training or experience, can really break barriers and make a difference on the “impossible” issues we face today, no matter if they exist in our own neighborhoods, our cities or even on the other side of the world. 
I want to dispel the idea that these problems are better solved by committees, governments or think tanks. 
I emphasize that SIMPLE does not mean EASY. It will take grit and determination. You will have “experts” scoff at you, and academics will shun you – that is, of course, until you have proven them all wrong." 


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Dreamers That Ignite Change: How to Become a True Visionary</strong></p><p><strong>John Renouard</strong> is the founder and executive director of the nonprofit WHOlives. While visiting Africa in 2010, John was taken aback that the lives of nearly all little girls and most women revolved around the daily burden of collecting contaminated water for their survival. After several months of contemplation, a solution finally came to him in the middle of the night. A transformative idea that has changed the lives of over 12 million people. John worked with a group of university engineering students to bring to life his dream of a human-powered water drill that could access clean water hundreds of feet below the surface. The Village Drill has since created more than 13,000 wells in 37+ countries, empowering more than 12 million people with clean water, better health, and renewed opportunities.<a href="https://wholives.org/"></a></p><p>More recently, John became aware of the inhumane practice of FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) and the selling of Child Brides where girls as young as 8 years old are brutally cut in preparation to be sold to men for labor and self-gratification. In just the past 6 months John's innovative efforts have been near miraculous. WHOlives has done more in 6 months than the combined efforts of 10 NGOs over the past 10 years. During the past cutting season, WHOlives efforts rescued over 2000 vulnerable girls and led to the arrests of over 60 perpetrators and is on track to not only reduce this crime against women but actually eliminate the practice altogether.</p><p>The American Red Cross presented him with an International Hero Award in 2015.</p><p>Connect with John at <a href="https://wholives.org/"><strong>WHOlives.org</strong></a></p><p>John's words about this interview, <em>"Ordinary people have incredibly intuitive solutions to many of the world’s “unsolvable” issues. I want the audience to walk away feeling empowered with the knowledge that it should be YOU who looks at an unsolvable issue and then comes up with an audaciously simple solution that breaks barriers.</em></p><p><em> A good example is Muhammad Yunus, a simple banker who saw a social issue of women beggars and wondered what could be done to help. To everyone’s surprise, the simple answer he came up with was a $27 loan. </em></p><p><em>I want to use two of my personal experiences in solving unsolvable issues. One is the Village Drill, my invention to help solve the world’s deadly water problems, which to date has created clean water for over 12 million people. </em></p><p><em>The second solution is a new idea on how to approach ending the unspeakable act of FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) and the selling of “child brides.” My simple idea successfully led to the rescue of over 2,000 girls and the arrest of over 50 individuals, and we’re now on track to end this practice in Kenya. </em></p><p><em>The goal is to motivate, inspire and teach the steps on how any individual, even without training or experience, can really break barriers and make a difference on the “impossible” issues we face today, no matter if they exist in our own neighborhoods, our cities or even on the other side of the world. </em></p><p><em>I want to dispel the idea that these problems are better solved by committees, governments or think tanks. </em></p><p><em>I emphasize that SIMPLE does not mean EASY. It will take grit and determination. You will have “experts” scoff at you, and academics will shun you – that is, of course, until you have proven them all wrong." </em></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1824</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Unlock Your Potential, Achieve Greatness &amp; Make An Impact Affordably</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/08/30/npe-mastermind/</link>
      <description>Unlock Your Potential, Achieve Greatness and Make An Impact Affordably

It is so important to build proper business relationships no matter how small or how large your organisation is. Your potential biggest client, sponsor, or donation for you and your organization is out there. Do not miss the opportunity to meet those connections at networking events or Masterclass Sessions
Steve Gaston says, "You have to learn more to Earn more, and every part of the group of businesses that I own or involved in has that purpose at its core. We believe that we value our client's business as much as our own and therefore feel we try to be as competitive in all the services we provide. My Passion is to continually grow and add products and services that can make a difference worldwide by Launching UK &amp; overseas projects that help business owners build better relationships, develop themselves as business owners, and make more profit."

More Information at https://themasterclasssessions.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 31 Aug 2023 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Unlock Your Potential, Achieve Greatness &amp; Make An Impact Affordably</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Steve Gaston</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Unlock Your Potential, Achieve Greatness and Make An Impact Affordably

It is so important to build proper business relationships no matter how small or how large your organisation is. Your potential biggest client, sponsor, or donation for you and your organization is out there. Do not miss the opportunity to meet those connections at networking events or Masterclass Sessions
Steve Gaston says, "You have to learn more to Earn more, and every part of the group of businesses that I own or involved in has that purpose at its core. We believe that we value our client's business as much as our own and therefore feel we try to be as competitive in all the services we provide. My Passion is to continually grow and add products and services that can make a difference worldwide by Launching UK &amp; overseas projects that help business owners build better relationships, develop themselves as business owners, and make more profit."

More Information at https://themasterclasssessions.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Unlock Your Potential, Achieve Greatness and Make An Impact Affordably</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>It is so important to build proper business relationships no matter how small or how large your organisation is. Your potential biggest client, sponsor, or donation for you and your organization is out there. Do not miss the opportunity to meet those connections at networking events or Masterclass Sessions</p><p>Steve Gaston says, "You have to learn more to Earn more, and every part of the group of businesses that I own or involved in has that purpose at its core. We believe that we value our client's business as much as our own and therefore feel we try to be as competitive in all the services we provide. My Passion is to continually grow and add products and services that can make a difference worldwide by Launching UK &amp; overseas projects that help business owners build better relationships, develop themselves as business owners, and make more profit."</p><p><br></p><p>More Information at <a href="https://themasterclasssessions.com">https://themasterclasssessions.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1451</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[1cb50f7a-474f-11ee-a4ab-f78a8fb22240]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7141517043.mp3?updated=1693411861" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Kingdom Leadership in the Marketplace</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/08/29/npe-kingdom-leadership/</link>
      <description>Kingdom Leadership in the Marketplace
Anthony A. Dicks, Jr. is a leader’s leader! His passion for leadership development is seen through his work with emerging leaders across a multitude of industries. He has spent over two decades preparing people with diverse responsibilities to reach their optimal leadership potential. He firmly believes that leaders are not developed by accident, they must be engineered. Anthony currently transforms leaders as the Senior Leadership Consultant for 180 Management Group.
What do the biblical characters Joseph, Daniel, Esther, Nehemiah, and Joseph of Arimathea all have in common? None were priests or clergy, yet all played a significant role in the Kingdom of God through their professions. Kingdom leadership in the marketplace requires a nuanced professionalism to maintain "being in the world but not of the world." I will provide a paradigm and perspective for navigating the marketplace in a way that's a win-win for both the God you serve and the organization you serve.
More Information at https://www.180managementgroup.com 


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2023 20:11:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Kingdom Leadership in the Marketplace</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Anthony A. Dicks, Jr.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Kingdom Leadership in the Marketplace
Anthony A. Dicks, Jr. is a leader’s leader! His passion for leadership development is seen through his work with emerging leaders across a multitude of industries. He has spent over two decades preparing people with diverse responsibilities to reach their optimal leadership potential. He firmly believes that leaders are not developed by accident, they must be engineered. Anthony currently transforms leaders as the Senior Leadership Consultant for 180 Management Group.
What do the biblical characters Joseph, Daniel, Esther, Nehemiah, and Joseph of Arimathea all have in common? None were priests or clergy, yet all played a significant role in the Kingdom of God through their professions. Kingdom leadership in the marketplace requires a nuanced professionalism to maintain "being in the world but not of the world." I will provide a paradigm and perspective for navigating the marketplace in a way that's a win-win for both the God you serve and the organization you serve.
More Information at https://www.180managementgroup.com 


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Kingdom Leadership in the Marketplace</strong></h1><p>Anthony A. Dicks, Jr. is a leader’s leader! His passion for leadership development is seen through his work with emerging leaders across a multitude of industries. He has spent over two decades preparing people with diverse responsibilities to reach their optimal leadership potential. He firmly believes that leaders are not developed by accident, they must be engineered. Anthony currently transforms leaders as the Senior Leadership Consultant for 180 Management Group.</p><p>What do the biblical characters Joseph, Daniel, Esther, Nehemiah, and Joseph of Arimathea all have in common? None were priests or clergy, yet all played a significant role in the Kingdom of God through their professions. Kingdom leadership in the marketplace requires a nuanced professionalism to maintain "being in the world but not of the world." I will provide a paradigm and perspective for navigating the marketplace in a way that's a win-win for both the God you serve and the organization you serve.</p><p>More Information at <a href="https://www.180managementgroup.com">https://www.180managementgroup.com</a> </p><p><br></p><h2 class="ql-align-center"><br></h2><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1693</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3670931910.mp3?updated=1693340819" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Life is the Only Thing That Can Defeat Cancer</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/08/21/npe-defeat-cancer/</link>
      <description>Life is the Only Thing That Can Defeat Cancer
You have to start somewhere when you have a passion project!
Deb Krier is a coalition builder and warrior who is rewriting the playbook on how to L.I.V.E. with cancer. Diagnosed with Stage 4 Triple Positive Breast Cancer in 2015, she has seen what happens when cancer has people and is on a mission to ensure that we are no longer “fine” with cancer by energizing our voices and expanding our choices. As an unlikely cancer
survivor, she's experienced the disconnection and despair of a system where cancer is the star of the show while people with cancer are watching silently from the sidelines. Now, she is using her experience and expertise to kill cancer with honesty, communication, and collaboration. She imagines a day when people dealing with cancer from all sides no longer fight their own battles and instead create coalitions that honor each other, with selflessness and society.
More information at https://tryingnottodie.live/

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      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2023 18:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Life is the Only Thing That Can Defeat Cancer</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leaders Can Stay Healthy, Interview with Deb Krier</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Life is the Only Thing That Can Defeat Cancer
You have to start somewhere when you have a passion project!
Deb Krier is a coalition builder and warrior who is rewriting the playbook on how to L.I.V.E. with cancer. Diagnosed with Stage 4 Triple Positive Breast Cancer in 2015, she has seen what happens when cancer has people and is on a mission to ensure that we are no longer “fine” with cancer by energizing our voices and expanding our choices. As an unlikely cancer
survivor, she's experienced the disconnection and despair of a system where cancer is the star of the show while people with cancer are watching silently from the sidelines. Now, she is using her experience and expertise to kill cancer with honesty, communication, and collaboration. She imagines a day when people dealing with cancer from all sides no longer fight their own battles and instead create coalitions that honor each other, with selflessness and society.
More information at https://tryingnottodie.live/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Life is the Only Thing That Can Defeat Cancer</strong></p><p>You have to start somewhere when you have a passion project!</p><p><strong>Deb Krie</strong>r is a coalition builder and warrior who is rewriting the playbook on how to L.I.V.E. with cancer. Diagnosed with Stage 4 Triple Positive Breast Cancer in 2015, she has seen what happens when cancer has people and is on a mission to ensure that we are no longer “fine” with cancer by energizing our voices and expanding our choices. As an unlikely cancer</p><p>survivor, she's experienced the disconnection and despair of a system where cancer is the star of the show while people with cancer are watching silently from the sidelines. Now, she is using her experience and expertise to kill cancer with honesty, communication, and collaboration. She imagines a day when people dealing with cancer from all sides no longer fight their own battles and instead create coalitions that honor each other, with selflessness and society.</p><p>More information at <a href="https://tryingnottodie.live/"><strong>https://tryingnottodie.live/</strong></a></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1482</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2ac63774-401f-11ee-9d05-6f86b5412768]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2514192444.mp3?updated=1692621794" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Legacy Planning for Nonprofits</title>
      <description>Legacy Planning for Nonprofits

In the realm of nonprofit organizations, few individuals possess the expertise, dedication, and drive that Kristoffer Doura brings to the table. As a Wall Street Journal best-selling author and renowned financial consultant, Doura has become a beacon of hope for nonprofits striving to achieve their maximum potential. In his highly anticipated book, Let's Get It! 10 Keys to Maximum Nonprofit Impact, Doura unveils a blueprint for success that transcends traditional advice, providing actionable strategies to navigate unexpected challenges and create a lasting legacy.

More information at https://www.kristofferdoura.com/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2023 19:33:49 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Legacy Planning for Nonprofits</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Kristoffer Doura</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Legacy Planning for Nonprofits

In the realm of nonprofit organizations, few individuals possess the expertise, dedication, and drive that Kristoffer Doura brings to the table. As a Wall Street Journal best-selling author and renowned financial consultant, Doura has become a beacon of hope for nonprofits striving to achieve their maximum potential. In his highly anticipated book, Let's Get It! 10 Keys to Maximum Nonprofit Impact, Doura unveils a blueprint for success that transcends traditional advice, providing actionable strategies to navigate unexpected challenges and create a lasting legacy.

More information at https://www.kristofferdoura.com/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Legacy Planning for Nonprofits</p><p><br></p><p>In the realm of nonprofit organizations, few individuals possess the expertise, dedication, and drive that Kristoffer Doura brings to the table. As a Wall Street Journal best-selling author and renowned financial consultant, Doura has become a beacon of hope for nonprofits striving to achieve their maximum potential. In his highly anticipated book, Let's Get It! 10 Keys to Maximum Nonprofit Impact, Doura unveils a blueprint for success that transcends traditional advice, providing actionable strategies to navigate unexpected challenges and create a lasting legacy.</p><p><br></p><p>More information at <a href="https://www.kristofferdoura.com/">https://www.kristofferdoura.com/</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1560</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[c0f02718-3ba2-11ee-ba88-a73afa86e9b5]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2734468279.mp3?updated=1692128371" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Social Impact Organizations Must Learn to Think and Act Like Digital Media Companies</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/08/08/npe-digital-marketing/</link>
      <description>Social Impact Organizations Must Learn to Think and Act Like Digital Media Companies
Interview with Eric Ressler

Eric is the Founder and Creative Director of Cosmic — a Social Impact Creative Agency. He believes that to take advantage of the benefits of the information era, social impact organizations must learn to think and act like digital media companies. Today’s social impact organizations have strong missions and inspiring visions, yet, all too often Eric sees that many of the strategies and approaches in the social impact space are still rooted in what worked well in the pre-digital era. Seeing how this leaves many organizations under-resourced, siloed, and struggling to reach their full impact potential, Eric founded Cosmic. At Cosmic, Eric and his team work with organizations focused on climate action, policy &amp; advocacy, education, social justice, equity, sustainability, arts &amp; culture, and using technology to advance social impact. Eric's deep and practical experience leveraging the power of branding, design, and today’s digital tools and platforms allows social impact organizations to nail their impact story, build brand awareness, and inspire action. Eric and Cosmic are on a mission to help social impact leaders and organizations reach their desired future state and move humanity forward.

More at https://designbycosmic.com 
Articles and Podcast Content: https://designbycosmic.com/insights/ 
Manifesto: https://designbycosmic.com/manifesto/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2023 19:05:24 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Social Impact Organizations Must Learn to Think and Act Like Digital Media Companies</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>learning Digital Marketing with Eric Ressler</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Social Impact Organizations Must Learn to Think and Act Like Digital Media Companies
Interview with Eric Ressler

Eric is the Founder and Creative Director of Cosmic — a Social Impact Creative Agency. He believes that to take advantage of the benefits of the information era, social impact organizations must learn to think and act like digital media companies. Today’s social impact organizations have strong missions and inspiring visions, yet, all too often Eric sees that many of the strategies and approaches in the social impact space are still rooted in what worked well in the pre-digital era. Seeing how this leaves many organizations under-resourced, siloed, and struggling to reach their full impact potential, Eric founded Cosmic. At Cosmic, Eric and his team work with organizations focused on climate action, policy &amp; advocacy, education, social justice, equity, sustainability, arts &amp; culture, and using technology to advance social impact. Eric's deep and practical experience leveraging the power of branding, design, and today’s digital tools and platforms allows social impact organizations to nail their impact story, build brand awareness, and inspire action. Eric and Cosmic are on a mission to help social impact leaders and organizations reach their desired future state and move humanity forward.

More at https://designbycosmic.com 
Articles and Podcast Content: https://designbycosmic.com/insights/ 
Manifesto: https://designbycosmic.com/manifesto/ 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Social Impact Organizations Must Learn to Think and Act Like Digital Media Companies</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Eric Ressler</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>Eric is the Founder and Creative Director of Cosmic — a Social Impact Creative Agency. He believes that to take advantage of the benefits of the information era, social impact organizations must learn to think and act like digital media companies. Today’s social impact organizations have strong missions and inspiring visions, yet, all too often Eric sees that many of the strategies and approaches in the social impact space are still rooted in what worked well in the pre-digital era. Seeing how this leaves many organizations under-resourced, siloed, and struggling to reach their full impact potential, Eric founded Cosmic. At Cosmic, Eric and his team work with organizations focused on climate action, policy &amp; advocacy, education, social justice, equity, sustainability, arts &amp; culture, and using technology to advance social impact. Eric's deep and practical experience leveraging the power of branding, design, and today’s digital tools and platforms allows social impact organizations to nail their impact story, build brand awareness, and inspire action. Eric and Cosmic are on a mission to help social impact leaders and organizations reach their desired future state and move humanity forward.</p><p><br></p><p>More at <a href="https://designbycosmic.com">https://designbycosmic.com</a> </p><p>Articles and Podcast Content: <a href="https://designbycosmic.com/insights/">https://designbycosmic.com/insights/</a> </p><p>Manifesto: <a href="https://designbycosmic.com/manifesto/">https://designbycosmic.com/manifesto/</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1987</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6107573226.mp3?updated=1691524544" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Retaining Your Talent and Workforce! </title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/08/01/npe-workforce-retention/</link>
      <description>Retaining Your Talent and Workforce! 
 Keys to Successfully Reduce Employee Turnover and Absenteeism 
Employees and volunteers always have choices about where and for whom they work for. All workplaces are a collection of people brought together to achieve common goals but each individual has their own unique and personal needs that must be met for work to be fulfilling. If they don’t enjoy their work, have a purpose in what they do, or are unable to build strong relationships they will likely leave in time for other opportunities that meet their needs. We serve any organization that understands the value of retaining their talented workforce (whether employees or volunteers) and strives to ensure they minimize employee turnover and absenteeism rates. Organizations that recognize the critical role their leaders and mid-level managers play in this process provide the training and process that help them improve retention numbers. Senior leaders need a management team that can create a positive workplace culture, foster a supportive working environment, and build strong relationships with employees. By partnering with us, you can be confident in your team's ability to retain top talent and achieve successful outcomes while you have the freedom to steer the ship in the direction you need to go. We help organizations create a fulfilling work experience for their team and build a strong foundation for their future success.
Doug Brown is the Founder and President of Manage2Retain, an Employee Retention Program Provider in Canada and the United States. Doug is passionate about employee retention and believes strongly that employees who enjoy their careers and find fulfillment in their work are more likely to become loyal employees that remain with their organizations for extended tenures. In addition, when their needs and careers are supported, they become strong brand ambassadors advocating for the company and helping to build team morale and strong relationships that have a positive impact on employee retention. Doug believes that there are three core focuses to strong employee retention: cultivating engagement drivers, creating rewarding work experiences, and building a career development plan for every employee. Ultimately, this also contributes to business success through employee growth and development as well as reduced turnover costs and /or loss of knowledge and skills. For the past 10 years, Doug has operated an employee engagement survey company, Engaged2Perform that collected a wealth of data and feedback on employee needs and desires for a rewarding career. Prior to this, Doug served in roles from Supervisor to President, overseeing production, quality control, sales and marketing, administration, distribution, and fulfillment. He has successfully overcome the many challenges involved in building loyal, high-performance
More information at https://manage2retain.com
#HughBallou
#TheNonprofitExchange
#DouglasBrows
#EmployeeRetention
https://SynerVisionLeadership.org 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 18:48:59 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Retaining Your Talent and Workforce! </itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle> Keys to Successfully Reduce Employee Turnover and Absenteeism </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Retaining Your Talent and Workforce! 
 Keys to Successfully Reduce Employee Turnover and Absenteeism 
Employees and volunteers always have choices about where and for whom they work for. All workplaces are a collection of people brought together to achieve common goals but each individual has their own unique and personal needs that must be met for work to be fulfilling. If they don’t enjoy their work, have a purpose in what they do, or are unable to build strong relationships they will likely leave in time for other opportunities that meet their needs. We serve any organization that understands the value of retaining their talented workforce (whether employees or volunteers) and strives to ensure they minimize employee turnover and absenteeism rates. Organizations that recognize the critical role their leaders and mid-level managers play in this process provide the training and process that help them improve retention numbers. Senior leaders need a management team that can create a positive workplace culture, foster a supportive working environment, and build strong relationships with employees. By partnering with us, you can be confident in your team's ability to retain top talent and achieve successful outcomes while you have the freedom to steer the ship in the direction you need to go. We help organizations create a fulfilling work experience for their team and build a strong foundation for their future success.
Doug Brown is the Founder and President of Manage2Retain, an Employee Retention Program Provider in Canada and the United States. Doug is passionate about employee retention and believes strongly that employees who enjoy their careers and find fulfillment in their work are more likely to become loyal employees that remain with their organizations for extended tenures. In addition, when their needs and careers are supported, they become strong brand ambassadors advocating for the company and helping to build team morale and strong relationships that have a positive impact on employee retention. Doug believes that there are three core focuses to strong employee retention: cultivating engagement drivers, creating rewarding work experiences, and building a career development plan for every employee. Ultimately, this also contributes to business success through employee growth and development as well as reduced turnover costs and /or loss of knowledge and skills. For the past 10 years, Doug has operated an employee engagement survey company, Engaged2Perform that collected a wealth of data and feedback on employee needs and desires for a rewarding career. Prior to this, Doug served in roles from Supervisor to President, overseeing production, quality control, sales and marketing, administration, distribution, and fulfillment. He has successfully overcome the many challenges involved in building loyal, high-performance
More information at https://manage2retain.com
#HughBallou
#TheNonprofitExchange
#DouglasBrows
#EmployeeRetention
https://SynerVisionLeadership.org 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Retaining Your Talent and Workforce! </strong></p><p class="ql-align-center"><strong> Keys to Successfully Reduce Employee Turnover and Absenteeism </strong></p><p>Employees and volunteers always have choices about where and for whom they work for. All workplaces are a collection of people brought together to achieve common goals but each individual has their own unique and personal needs that must be met for work to be fulfilling. If they don’t enjoy their work, have a purpose in what they do, or are unable to build strong relationships they will likely leave in time for other opportunities that meet their needs. We serve any organization that understands the value of retaining their talented workforce (whether employees or volunteers) and strives to ensure they minimize employee turnover and absenteeism rates. Organizations that recognize the critical role their leaders and mid-level managers play in this process provide the training and process that help them improve retention numbers. Senior leaders need a management team that can create a positive workplace culture, foster a supportive working environment, and build strong relationships with employees. By partnering with us, you can be confident in your team's ability to retain top talent and achieve successful outcomes while you have the freedom to steer the ship in the direction you need to go. We help organizations create a fulfilling work experience for their team and build a strong foundation for their future success.</p><p><strong>Doug Brown</strong> is the Founder and President of Manage2Retain, an Employee Retention Program Provider in Canada and the United States. Doug is passionate about employee retention and believes strongly that employees who enjoy their careers and find fulfillment in their work are more likely to become loyal employees that remain with their organizations for extended tenures. In addition, when their needs and careers are supported, they become strong brand ambassadors advocating for the company and helping to build team morale and strong relationships that have a positive impact on employee retention. Doug believes that there are three core focuses to strong employee retention: cultivating engagement drivers, creating rewarding work experiences, and building a career development plan for every employee. Ultimately, this also contributes to business success through employee growth and development as well as reduced turnover costs and /or loss of knowledge and skills. For the past 10 years, Doug has operated an employee engagement survey company, Engaged2Perform that collected a wealth of data and feedback on employee needs and desires for a rewarding career. Prior to this, Doug served in roles from Supervisor to President, overseeing production, quality control, sales and marketing, administration, distribution, and fulfillment. He has successfully overcome the many challenges involved in building loyal, high-performance</p><p>More information at <a href="https://manage2retain.com">https://manage2retain.com</a></p><p>#HughBallou</p><p>#TheNonprofitExchange</p><p>#DouglasBrows</p><p>#EmployeeRetention</p><p><a href="https://SynerVisionLeadership.org">https://SynerVisionLeadership.org</a> </p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2005</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6603150429.mp3?updated=1690922303" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Curiosity Did Not Kill The Cat: Intentional Leadership and Living</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/07/25/npe-intentional-leadership/</link>
      <description>Curiosity Did Not Kill The Cat: Intentional Leadership and Living
Interview with Shana Francesca
To be a truly effective leader we need to be intentional. That requires us to be curious, be respectful, and practice accountability and we need to have a nuanced understanding of each and how they work together and balance one another.
Shana Francesca is a speaker, writer, and entrepreneur. She has been interviewed on more than 60 podcasts worldwide and has been published in Medium, Authority Magazine &amp; Shoutout LA emotional intelligence magazine, and Emerge Magazine. Her work centers around intentional leadership and life design. Shana believes our present and future are transformed when we infuse our lives with intention, design our lives, and realize the power of accepting ourselves as the author of our story. 
For more information go to https://www.concinnate.world/ 
More at http://TheNonprofitExchange.org
#IntentionalLeadership
#Hugh Ballou
#ShanaFrancesca
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2023 20:06:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Curiosity Did Not Kill The Cat: Intentional Leadership and Living</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Shana Francesca</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Curiosity Did Not Kill The Cat: Intentional Leadership and Living
Interview with Shana Francesca
To be a truly effective leader we need to be intentional. That requires us to be curious, be respectful, and practice accountability and we need to have a nuanced understanding of each and how they work together and balance one another.
Shana Francesca is a speaker, writer, and entrepreneur. She has been interviewed on more than 60 podcasts worldwide and has been published in Medium, Authority Magazine &amp; Shoutout LA emotional intelligence magazine, and Emerge Magazine. Her work centers around intentional leadership and life design. Shana believes our present and future are transformed when we infuse our lives with intention, design our lives, and realize the power of accepting ourselves as the author of our story. 
For more information go to https://www.concinnate.world/ 
More at http://TheNonprofitExchange.org
#IntentionalLeadership
#Hugh Ballou
#ShanaFrancesca
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Curiosity Did Not Kill The Cat: Intentional Leadership and Living</p><p>Interview with Shana Francesca</p><p>To be a truly effective leader we need to be intentional. That requires us to be curious, be respectful, and practice accountability and we need to have a nuanced understanding of each and how they work together and balance one another.</p><p>Shana Francesca is a speaker, writer, and entrepreneur. She has been interviewed on more than 60 podcasts worldwide and has been published in Medium, Authority Magazine &amp; Shoutout LA emotional intelligence magazine, and Emerge Magazine. Her work centers around intentional leadership and life design. Shana believes our present and future are transformed when we infuse our lives with intention, design our lives, and realize the power of accepting ourselves as the author of our story. </p><p>For more information go to <a href="https://www.concinnate.world/">https://www.concinnate.world/</a> </p><p>More at http://TheNonprofitExchange.org</p><p>#IntentionalLeadership</p><p>#Hugh Ballou</p><p>#ShanaFrancesca</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2057</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[7a68b174-2b27-11ee-9984-33c107173389]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1735216862.mp3?updated=1690316205" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>No Kids Sleep on Floors in Our Town</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/07/18/npe-sleep-in-heavenly-peace/</link>
      <description>No Kids Sleep on Floors in Our Town: 
The Story of Launching a Successful Nonprofit

Luke Mickelson, a 2018 CNN Hero Top 10 nominee, is the Founder and Executive Director of Sleep in Heavenly Peace, a volunteer-driven nonprofit dedicated to building and delivering handmade, fully furnished bunk beds to needy children. They have delivered 140K+ beds, and the organization that started out in Luke's garage has grown to include 300+ chapters in 4 countries with 276K+ volunteers. The children Sleep in Heavenly Peace serves often sleep on the floor and use their clothes as a bed. In 2012, Luke decided he had to do something after discovering that there were so many needy children in his community who were forced to sleep on the floor because they lacked beds, so he quit a high-paying career he had held for 18 years to launch his organization. Using safety guidelines and his daughter's bunk bed as a template, he started buying wood and supplies to build beds with his own money. He recruited friends and family members to help around the holidays, and as word spread, interest and involvement from his and other communities surged, along with Sleep In Heavenly Peace's bunk bed output, which has at least doubled every year so far. 
Luke has been featured on multiple major media platforms, including CNN, NBC, and Returning the Favor. On the podcast, he would love to talk about: How a simple Christmas project with his kids launched a successful nonprofit with a nationwide presence, changed the course of his life, and set him on a mission to make sure that no kid sleeps on the floor. Amazing stories of the impact Sleep in Heavenly Peace has had and how you can help end child bedlessness, which is estimated to affect nearly 3% of the population. How parents who can't afford to get their children beds can seek help from Sleep In Heavenly Peace.
For more information, go to https://shpbeds.org
#TheNonprofitExchange
http://TheNonprofitExchange.org
https://SynerVisionLeadership.org 
#NonprofitLeadership

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      <pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2023 19:08:18 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>No Kids Sleep on Floors in Our Town</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Story of Launching a Successful Nonprofit with Luke Mickelson</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>No Kids Sleep on Floors in Our Town: 
The Story of Launching a Successful Nonprofit

Luke Mickelson, a 2018 CNN Hero Top 10 nominee, is the Founder and Executive Director of Sleep in Heavenly Peace, a volunteer-driven nonprofit dedicated to building and delivering handmade, fully furnished bunk beds to needy children. They have delivered 140K+ beds, and the organization that started out in Luke's garage has grown to include 300+ chapters in 4 countries with 276K+ volunteers. The children Sleep in Heavenly Peace serves often sleep on the floor and use their clothes as a bed. In 2012, Luke decided he had to do something after discovering that there were so many needy children in his community who were forced to sleep on the floor because they lacked beds, so he quit a high-paying career he had held for 18 years to launch his organization. Using safety guidelines and his daughter's bunk bed as a template, he started buying wood and supplies to build beds with his own money. He recruited friends and family members to help around the holidays, and as word spread, interest and involvement from his and other communities surged, along with Sleep In Heavenly Peace's bunk bed output, which has at least doubled every year so far. 
Luke has been featured on multiple major media platforms, including CNN, NBC, and Returning the Favor. On the podcast, he would love to talk about: How a simple Christmas project with his kids launched a successful nonprofit with a nationwide presence, changed the course of his life, and set him on a mission to make sure that no kid sleeps on the floor. Amazing stories of the impact Sleep in Heavenly Peace has had and how you can help end child bedlessness, which is estimated to affect nearly 3% of the population. How parents who can't afford to get their children beds can seek help from Sleep In Heavenly Peace.
For more information, go to https://shpbeds.org
#TheNonprofitExchange
http://TheNonprofitExchange.org
https://SynerVisionLeadership.org 
#NonprofitLeadership

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      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>No Kids Sleep on Floors in Our Town: </strong></h1><h1><strong>The Story of Launching a Successful Nonprofit</strong></h1><p><br></p><p><strong>Luke Mickelson</strong>, a 2018 CNN Hero Top 10 nominee, is the Founder and Executive Director of Sleep in Heavenly Peace, a volunteer-driven nonprofit dedicated to building and delivering handmade, fully furnished bunk beds to needy children. They have delivered 140K+ beds, and the organization that started out in Luke's garage has grown to include 300+ chapters in 4 countries with 276K+ volunteers. The children Sleep in Heavenly Peace serves often sleep on the floor and use their clothes as a bed. In 2012, Luke decided he had to do something after discovering that there were so many needy children in his community who were forced to sleep on the floor because they lacked beds, so he quit a high-paying career he had held for 18 years to launch his organization. Using safety guidelines and his daughter's bunk bed as a template, he started buying wood and supplies to build beds with his own money. He recruited friends and family members to help around the holidays, and as word spread, interest and involvement from his and other communities surged, along with Sleep In Heavenly Peace's bunk bed output, which has at least doubled every year so far. </p><p>Luke has been featured on multiple major media platforms, including CNN, NBC, and Returning the Favor. On the podcast, he would love to talk about: How a simple Christmas project with his kids launched a successful nonprofit with a nationwide presence, changed the course of his life, and set him on a mission to make sure that no kid sleeps on the floor. Amazing stories of the impact Sleep in Heavenly Peace has had and how you can help end child bedlessness, which is estimated to affect nearly 3% of the population. How parents who can't afford to get their children beds can seek help from Sleep In Heavenly Peace.</p><p>For more information, go to <a href="https://shpbeds.org">https://shpbeds.org</a></p><p>#TheNonprofitExchange</p><p><a href="http://TheNonprofitExchange.org">http://TheNonprofitExchange.org</a></p><p><a href="https://SynerVisionLeadership.org">https://SynerVisionLeadership.org</a> </p><p>#NonprofitLeadership</p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1890</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[838f0692-259e-11ee-a88c-93a6f3c71a60]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1861637687.mp3?updated=1689707624" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Barriers to High Performing Teams: How Great Leaders Clear the Path</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/07/11/npe-high-performing-teams/</link>
      <description>Barriers to High Performing Teams: How Great Leaders Clear the Path

Your sole objective is to fulfill the mission for which your organization was created within financial resource constraints, quickly, efficiently, with high quality, and high customer satisfaction. Great leaders access the inherent intrinsic motivation people bring to work creating high engagement, performance, and meaning in the work.

Kevin Herring is the founder of Ascent Management Consulting and a recognized expert in team and business unit turnarounds. He is the creator of the 90-day Turnaround, a unique program for building great leaders and transforming any workgroup into a highly engaged, high-performing team in just 90 days. Kevin is a consultant, executive coach, published author, and keynote speaker. He has been published and quoted in Forbes, CFO, Talent Management, Workforce, and HR Executive among others.

More information about Kevin Herring at - https://ascentmgt.com/

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      <pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2023 20:10:13 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Barriers to High Performing Teams: How Great Leaders Clear the Path</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Kevin Herring</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Barriers to High Performing Teams: How Great Leaders Clear the Path

Your sole objective is to fulfill the mission for which your organization was created within financial resource constraints, quickly, efficiently, with high quality, and high customer satisfaction. Great leaders access the inherent intrinsic motivation people bring to work creating high engagement, performance, and meaning in the work.

Kevin Herring is the founder of Ascent Management Consulting and a recognized expert in team and business unit turnarounds. He is the creator of the 90-day Turnaround, a unique program for building great leaders and transforming any workgroup into a highly engaged, high-performing team in just 90 days. Kevin is a consultant, executive coach, published author, and keynote speaker. He has been published and quoted in Forbes, CFO, Talent Management, Workforce, and HR Executive among others.

More information about Kevin Herring at - https://ascentmgt.com/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Barriers to High Performing Teams: How Great Leaders Clear the Path</strong></p><p><br></p><p>Your sole objective is to fulfill the mission for which your organization was created within financial resource constraints, quickly, efficiently, with high quality, and high customer satisfaction. Great leaders access the inherent intrinsic motivation people bring to work creating high engagement, performance, and meaning in the work.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Kevin Herring</strong> is the founder of Ascent Management Consulting and a recognized expert in team and business unit turnarounds. He is the creator of the 90-day Turnaround, a unique program for building great leaders and transforming any workgroup into a highly engaged, high-performing team in just 90 days. Kevin is a consultant, executive coach, published author, and keynote speaker. He has been published and quoted in Forbes, CFO, Talent Management, Workforce, and HR Executive among others.</p><p><br></p><p>More information about Kevin Herring at - <a href="https://ascentmgt.com/">https://ascentmgt.com/</a></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3137</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[02a179a6-2027-11ee-913c-9fafd5dd8e39]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5720940527.mp3?updated=1689106542" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Enneagram and Transformation</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-enneagram-and-transformation/</link>
      <description>The Enneagram and Transformation:
Interview with Dr. Joseph Howell
The ego impairs our sense of reality and our ultimate success. With the enneagram, we see the other person or ourselves that are the antidotes to the problems of the ego.
The founder of the Institute of Conscious Being is Joseph Benton Howell Ph.D. Dr. Howell is a graduate of Samford University (B.A.1971), Yale Divinity School (MAR 1974), The University of Virginia (Ph.D.1978), and Fellow in Clinical Psychology, Department of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School (1978-79). He is an International Enneagram Association (IEA) Accredited Professional Teacher.
Dr. Howell has been practicing Clinical Psychology since 1980 in Anniston, Alabama. He began teaching topics in spiritual development in the late eighties and has traveled extensively presenting conferences and seminars in such disciplines as dreamwork, the Enneagram, levels of spiritual development, techniques in spiritual direction, and the theology of Henri Nouwen, Joe’s mentor at Yale Divinity School.
Aided by his wife, Lark Dill Howell who presents her own topics at conferences, Joe is in demand as a conference presenter all over the country. His book, Becoming Conscious: The Enneagram’s Forgotten Passageway is a ground-breaker in the area of consciousness achievement through the ancient Enneagram. Over a lifetime of treating patients and teaching spirituality, Joe has vast experience in psychology and spiritual growth and change. Through the years, he and Lark have undergone their own spiritual transformations that were brought about by the implementation of the spiritual consciousness of which they teach. Joe wants to share this accumulated knowledge and years of study across many disciplines.
He also brings to the Institute other experienced teachers who are interested in teaching vital areas of spiritual consciousness and transformation. This way, even more people can be aware of this knowledge, more students can be trained as teachers to pass on this wisdom, consciousness can be raised, human suffering can be diminished and healing can occur in the individual as well as in the collective.
More about Dr. Howell and ICB at https://www.instituteforconsciousbeing.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 04 Jul 2023 18:26:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Enneagram and Transformation</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dr. Joseph Howell</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Enneagram and Transformation:
Interview with Dr. Joseph Howell
The ego impairs our sense of reality and our ultimate success. With the enneagram, we see the other person or ourselves that are the antidotes to the problems of the ego.
The founder of the Institute of Conscious Being is Joseph Benton Howell Ph.D. Dr. Howell is a graduate of Samford University (B.A.1971), Yale Divinity School (MAR 1974), The University of Virginia (Ph.D.1978), and Fellow in Clinical Psychology, Department of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School (1978-79). He is an International Enneagram Association (IEA) Accredited Professional Teacher.
Dr. Howell has been practicing Clinical Psychology since 1980 in Anniston, Alabama. He began teaching topics in spiritual development in the late eighties and has traveled extensively presenting conferences and seminars in such disciplines as dreamwork, the Enneagram, levels of spiritual development, techniques in spiritual direction, and the theology of Henri Nouwen, Joe’s mentor at Yale Divinity School.
Aided by his wife, Lark Dill Howell who presents her own topics at conferences, Joe is in demand as a conference presenter all over the country. His book, Becoming Conscious: The Enneagram’s Forgotten Passageway is a ground-breaker in the area of consciousness achievement through the ancient Enneagram. Over a lifetime of treating patients and teaching spirituality, Joe has vast experience in psychology and spiritual growth and change. Through the years, he and Lark have undergone their own spiritual transformations that were brought about by the implementation of the spiritual consciousness of which they teach. Joe wants to share this accumulated knowledge and years of study across many disciplines.
He also brings to the Institute other experienced teachers who are interested in teaching vital areas of spiritual consciousness and transformation. This way, even more people can be aware of this knowledge, more students can be trained as teachers to pass on this wisdom, consciousness can be raised, human suffering can be diminished and healing can occur in the individual as well as in the collective.
More about Dr. Howell and ICB at https://www.instituteforconsciousbeing.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>The Enneagram and Transformation:</h1><h1>Interview with Dr. Joseph Howell</h1><p>The ego impairs our sense of reality and our ultimate success. With the enneagram, we see the other person or ourselves that are the antidotes to the problems of the ego.</p><p>The founder of the Institute of Conscious Being is <strong>Joseph Benton Howell</strong> Ph.D. Dr. Howell is a graduate of Samford University (B.A.1971), Yale Divinity School (MAR 1974), The University of Virginia (Ph.D.1978), and Fellow in Clinical Psychology, Department of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School (1978-79). He is an International Enneagram Association (IEA) Accredited Professional Teacher.</p><p>Dr. Howell has been practicing Clinical Psychology since 1980 in Anniston, Alabama. He began teaching topics in spiritual development in the late eighties and has traveled extensively presenting conferences and seminars in such disciplines as dreamwork, the Enneagram, levels of spiritual development, techniques in spiritual direction, and the theology of Henri Nouwen, Joe’s mentor at Yale Divinity School.</p><p>Aided by his wife, Lark Dill Howell who presents her own topics at conferences, Joe is in demand as a conference presenter all over the country. His book, Becoming Conscious: The Enneagram’s Forgotten Passageway is a ground-breaker in the area of consciousness achievement through the ancient Enneagram. Over a lifetime of treating patients and teaching spirituality, Joe has vast experience in psychology and spiritual growth and change. Through the years, he and Lark have undergone their own spiritual transformations that were brought about by the implementation of the spiritual consciousness of which they teach. Joe wants to share this accumulated knowledge and years of study across many disciplines.</p><p>He also brings to the Institute other experienced teachers who are interested in teaching vital areas of spiritual consciousness and transformation. This way, even more people can be aware of this knowledge, more students can be trained as teachers to pass on this wisdom, consciousness can be raised, human suffering can be diminished and healing can occur in the individual as well as in the collective.</p><p>More about Dr. Howell and ICB at <a href="https://www.instituteforconsciousbeing.org/"><strong>https://www.instituteforconsciousbeing.org</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1950</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[4589ab74-419b-11ec-8701-076e86c63023]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6431337663.mp3?updated=1688495446" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Engaging Volunteers to Advance Your Mission</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/06/27/npe-empowering-volunteers/</link>
      <description>Engaging Volunteers to Advance Your Mission

Volunteers aren't free, but if you invest in them wisely, through good training and strong leadership, they will provide you with a return on investment for your mission that is unmatched by any other investment you could make.
Karen Knight is a consultant, volunteer leadership expert, and dynamic and engaging speaker. Karen has used her 25 years of experience as a leader and mentor in the social impact sector and her extensive research in the field to create a proprietary framework for turning volunteers into an enthusiastic, reliable, and committed team.

More at https://karenknight.ca/

http://TheNonprofitExchange
https://SynerVisionLeadership.org
#KarenKnight
#HughBallou
#volunteers
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2023 19:15:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Engaging Volunteers to Advance Your Mission</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Karen Knight</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Engaging Volunteers to Advance Your Mission

Volunteers aren't free, but if you invest in them wisely, through good training and strong leadership, they will provide you with a return on investment for your mission that is unmatched by any other investment you could make.
Karen Knight is a consultant, volunteer leadership expert, and dynamic and engaging speaker. Karen has used her 25 years of experience as a leader and mentor in the social impact sector and her extensive research in the field to create a proprietary framework for turning volunteers into an enthusiastic, reliable, and committed team.

More at https://karenknight.ca/

http://TheNonprofitExchange
https://SynerVisionLeadership.org
#KarenKnight
#HughBallou
#volunteers
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><br></p><p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Engaging Volunteers to Advance Your Mission</strong></p><p><br></p><p>Volunteers aren't free, but if you invest in them wisely, through good training and strong leadership, they will provide you with a return on investment for your mission that is unmatched by any other investment you could make.</p><p><strong>Karen Knight</strong> is a consultant, volunteer leadership expert, and dynamic and engaging speaker. Karen has used her 25 years of experience as a leader and mentor in the social impact sector and her extensive research in the field to create a proprietary framework for turning volunteers into an enthusiastic, reliable, and committed team.</p><p><br></p><p>More at<a href="https://karenknight.ca/"><strong> https://karenknight.ca/</strong></a></p><p><br></p><p><strong>http://TheNonprofitExchange</strong></p><p><strong>https://SynerVisionLeadership.org</strong></p><p>#KarenKnight</p><p>#HughBallou</p><p>#volunteers</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1865</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[18124382-151f-11ee-97a0-cb66cdef73b2]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9350564794.mp3?updated=1687893678" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Fool-Proof Facilitation Practices</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/06/19/npe-facilitation/</link>
      <description>Fool-Proof Facilitation Practices
You can trust the experience and wisdom of any group using tried and true facilitation methods. They will surprise you, and themselves when given a solid, reliable process and a neutral facilitator.
As President of Vital Clarity, Kathleen Osta designs and facilitates participatory meetings that help organizations fulfill their purpose. She has mastery of consensus facilitation methods that articulate and build alignment within groups. With 30 years of experience applying these methods in a wide range of settings and fields, her intent is always to draw out the best thinking and creativity from all participants. She specializes in organizational and personal strategic planning, and change management and has experience as a trainer of facilitation methods.
She says, “My professional career began in human services in 1972 when I held positions such as manager, public relations professional, and development director. I dedicated 12 years to programs that serve families with young and adult children with cognitive and physical challenges. Since 1989 I have focused on leading groups to develop and implement realistic strategic plans. Equipped to work within many professional arenas, I have a depth of experience in the local government and private sectors, the disability field, social services, health care, nonprofit mergers, education, collaborations, and marketing.
I have a B.A. in Sociology from Nazareth College of Rochester, N.Y., and 30+ years of management and consulting experience. I am a charter member of the Arizona Organization Development Network, a member of the Technology of Participation (ToP) Trainers Network, and the Asheville Area Chamber of Commerce.
As a mentor trainer of the Institute of Cultural Affairs’ “Technology of Participation® and Facilitation Methods” course, I have equipped hundreds of leaders with the tools and benefits of facilitative leadership. I am also certified to conduct “The Power Within Change” program developed by ChangeWorks Global.
I founded and led AshevilleConnects for three years, a community initiative dedicated to information and resource sharing across a wide range of community sectors. Through candid dialogues and speed-dating style information-sharing sessions, delightful coincidences and collaborations were hatched and community members made good use of previously untapped resources.
For more information go to https://www.vitalclarity.com/
I am committed to designing and offering experiences that entice individuals and groups to move beyond their previous limits.

#KathleenOsta
#HughBallou
#TheNonprofitExchange
#TeamMeetings
#BoardMeetings
https://SynerVisionLeadership.org 
http://TheNonprofitExchange.org 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:56:16 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Fool-Proof Facilitation Practices</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Running effective meetings: Interview with Kathleen Osta</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Fool-Proof Facilitation Practices
You can trust the experience and wisdom of any group using tried and true facilitation methods. They will surprise you, and themselves when given a solid, reliable process and a neutral facilitator.
As President of Vital Clarity, Kathleen Osta designs and facilitates participatory meetings that help organizations fulfill their purpose. She has mastery of consensus facilitation methods that articulate and build alignment within groups. With 30 years of experience applying these methods in a wide range of settings and fields, her intent is always to draw out the best thinking and creativity from all participants. She specializes in organizational and personal strategic planning, and change management and has experience as a trainer of facilitation methods.
She says, “My professional career began in human services in 1972 when I held positions such as manager, public relations professional, and development director. I dedicated 12 years to programs that serve families with young and adult children with cognitive and physical challenges. Since 1989 I have focused on leading groups to develop and implement realistic strategic plans. Equipped to work within many professional arenas, I have a depth of experience in the local government and private sectors, the disability field, social services, health care, nonprofit mergers, education, collaborations, and marketing.
I have a B.A. in Sociology from Nazareth College of Rochester, N.Y., and 30+ years of management and consulting experience. I am a charter member of the Arizona Organization Development Network, a member of the Technology of Participation (ToP) Trainers Network, and the Asheville Area Chamber of Commerce.
As a mentor trainer of the Institute of Cultural Affairs’ “Technology of Participation® and Facilitation Methods” course, I have equipped hundreds of leaders with the tools and benefits of facilitative leadership. I am also certified to conduct “The Power Within Change” program developed by ChangeWorks Global.
I founded and led AshevilleConnects for three years, a community initiative dedicated to information and resource sharing across a wide range of community sectors. Through candid dialogues and speed-dating style information-sharing sessions, delightful coincidences and collaborations were hatched and community members made good use of previously untapped resources.
For more information go to https://www.vitalclarity.com/
I am committed to designing and offering experiences that entice individuals and groups to move beyond their previous limits.

#KathleenOsta
#HughBallou
#TheNonprofitExchange
#TeamMeetings
#BoardMeetings
https://SynerVisionLeadership.org 
http://TheNonprofitExchange.org 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Fool-Proof Facilitation Practices</strong></p><p>You can trust the experience and wisdom of any group using tried and true facilitation methods. They will surprise you, and themselves when given a solid, reliable process and a neutral facilitator.</p><p>As President of Vital Clarity, <strong>Kathleen Osta</strong> designs and facilitates participatory meetings that help organizations fulfill their purpose. She has mastery of consensus facilitation methods that articulate and build alignment within groups. With 30 years of experience applying these methods in a wide range of settings and fields, her intent is always to draw out the best thinking and creativity from all participants. She specializes in organizational and personal strategic planning, and change management and has experience as a trainer of facilitation methods.</p><p>She says, “My professional career began in human services in 1972 when I held positions such as manager, public relations professional, and development director. I dedicated 12 years to programs that serve families with young and adult children with cognitive and physical challenges. Since 1989 I have focused on leading groups to develop and implement realistic strategic plans. Equipped to work within many professional arenas, I have a depth of experience in the local government and private sectors, the disability field, social services, health care, nonprofit mergers, education, collaborations, and marketing.</p><p>I have a B.A. in Sociology from Nazareth College of Rochester, N.Y., and 30+ years of management and consulting experience. I am a charter member of the Arizona Organization Development Network, a member of the Technology of Participation (ToP) Trainers Network, and the Asheville Area Chamber of Commerce.</p><p>As a mentor trainer of the Institute of Cultural Affairs’ “Technology of Participation® and Facilitation Methods” course, I have equipped hundreds of leaders with the tools and benefits of facilitative leadership. I am also certified to conduct “The Power Within Change” program developed by ChangeWorks Global.</p><p>I founded and led AshevilleConnects for three years, a community initiative dedicated to information and resource sharing across a wide range of community sectors. Through candid dialogues and speed-dating style information-sharing sessions, delightful coincidences and collaborations were hatched and community members made good use of previously untapped resources.</p><p>For more information go to<a href="https://www.vitalclarity.com/"><strong> https://www.vitalclarity.com/</strong></a></p><p>I am committed to designing and offering experiences that entice individuals and groups to move beyond their previous limits.</p><p><br></p><p>#KathleenOsta</p><p>#HughBallou</p><p>#TheNonprofitExchange</p><p>#TeamMeetings</p><p>#BoardMeetings</p><p><a href="https://SynerVisionLeadership.org">https://SynerVisionLeadership.org</a> </p><p><a href="http://TheNonprofitExchange.org">http://TheNonprofitExchange.org</a> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1982</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Beyond Dancing in Your Pajamas - How to Really Use Videos for Your Business or Nonprofit</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/06/12/npe-nonprofit-videos/</link>
      <description>Beyond Dancing in Your Pajamas - How to Really Use Videos for Your Business or Nonprofit

You've likely seen all the online videos and wondered if you need to dance in a fuzzy pink bunny suit to increase awareness about what you do and to improve your fundraising efforts. If you like to wear a fuzzy pink bunny suit and dance, no judgment. But if you'd prefer to present yourself in a relatable and professional manner; if you'd like to build awareness for yourself and the work you do; and if you'd like to build your community, there's a way to do that with videos that only involve dancing if that's your thing. For nonprofits and clergy, I'll show you how videos can be used to educate, connect with your community and increase awareness about your work so that you can increase the donations your organization needs to do the selfless and gracious work you do.
Carl Kwan is a video marketing expert who started making YouTube videos in 2009 for his executive presentation coaching business to teach people globally presentation skills. He was also involved in TV and radio and was a professional voice actor. He has an MBA and has always been passionate about helping people succeed. Clients include Samsung, Jaguar Land Rover, and Motorola. But as online video began to be used more and more by businesses, he noticed that the videos missed the mark when it came to genuinely helping a business achieve its goals. So in 2013, Carl started Kwan Multimedia to work with companies globally to produce videos that could be used in a strategic way, with the primary mission of communicating the right message to the right audience to achieve business objectives. And that YouTube channel? It's since grown to over 100,000 subscribers and counting, which means Carl is one of the few video marketing people who has used videos to grow his business.
More at https://kwanmultimedia.com/
#TheNonprofitExchange
#NonprofitLeadership
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2023 19:33:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Beyond Dancing in Your Pajamas - How to Really Use Videos for Your Business or Nonprofit</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Video Marketing Specialist, Carl Kwan</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Beyond Dancing in Your Pajamas - How to Really Use Videos for Your Business or Nonprofit

You've likely seen all the online videos and wondered if you need to dance in a fuzzy pink bunny suit to increase awareness about what you do and to improve your fundraising efforts. If you like to wear a fuzzy pink bunny suit and dance, no judgment. But if you'd prefer to present yourself in a relatable and professional manner; if you'd like to build awareness for yourself and the work you do; and if you'd like to build your community, there's a way to do that with videos that only involve dancing if that's your thing. For nonprofits and clergy, I'll show you how videos can be used to educate, connect with your community and increase awareness about your work so that you can increase the donations your organization needs to do the selfless and gracious work you do.
Carl Kwan is a video marketing expert who started making YouTube videos in 2009 for his executive presentation coaching business to teach people globally presentation skills. He was also involved in TV and radio and was a professional voice actor. He has an MBA and has always been passionate about helping people succeed. Clients include Samsung, Jaguar Land Rover, and Motorola. But as online video began to be used more and more by businesses, he noticed that the videos missed the mark when it came to genuinely helping a business achieve its goals. So in 2013, Carl started Kwan Multimedia to work with companies globally to produce videos that could be used in a strategic way, with the primary mission of communicating the right message to the right audience to achieve business objectives. And that YouTube channel? It's since grown to over 100,000 subscribers and counting, which means Carl is one of the few video marketing people who has used videos to grow his business.
More at https://kwanmultimedia.com/
#TheNonprofitExchange
#NonprofitLeadership
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Beyond Dancing in Your Pajamas - How to Really Use Videos for Your Business or Nonprofit</strong></p><p><br></p><p>You've likely seen all the online videos and wondered if you need to dance in a fuzzy pink bunny suit to increase awareness about what you do and to improve your fundraising efforts. If you like to wear a fuzzy pink bunny suit and dance, no judgment. But if you'd prefer to present yourself in a relatable and professional manner; if you'd like to build awareness for yourself and the work you do; and if you'd like to build your community, there's a way to do that with videos that only involve dancing if that's your thing. For nonprofits and clergy, I'll show you how videos can be used to educate, connect with your community and increase awareness about your work so that you can increase the donations your organization needs to do the selfless and gracious work you do.</p><p><strong>Carl Kwan</strong> is a video marketing expert who started making YouTube videos in 2009 for his executive presentation coaching business to teach people globally presentation skills. He was also involved in TV and radio and was a professional voice actor. He has an MBA and has always been passionate about helping people succeed. Clients include Samsung, Jaguar Land Rover, and Motorola. But as online video began to be used more and more by businesses, he noticed that the videos missed the mark when it came to genuinely helping a business achieve its goals. So in 2013, Carl started Kwan Multimedia to work with companies globally to produce videos that could be used in a strategic way, with the primary mission of communicating the right message to the right audience to achieve business objectives. And that YouTube channel? It's since grown to over 100,000 subscribers and counting, which means Carl is one of the few video marketing people who has used videos to grow his business.</p><p>More at <a href="https://kwanmultimedia.com/">https://kwanmultimedia.com/</a></p><p>#TheNonprofitExchange</p><p>#NonprofitLeadership</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1814</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Upgrading Your Video Conferencing Platform</title>
      <description>Upgrading Your Video Conferencing Platform
Interview with MeetN Founder, Rick Raddatz

Rick Raddatz was twelve years at Microsoft as a product designer, developer, and marketer.
Twenty years as a serial tech entrepreneur / CEO
Sixteen years (overlapping) doing independent research in political philosophy.
Founder of MeetN video conferencing platform.
For more information go to https://meetn.com/charityspecial
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2023 18:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Upgrading Your Video Conferencing Platform</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with MeetN Founder, Rick Raddatz</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Upgrading Your Video Conferencing Platform
Interview with MeetN Founder, Rick Raddatz

Rick Raddatz was twelve years at Microsoft as a product designer, developer, and marketer.
Twenty years as a serial tech entrepreneur / CEO
Sixteen years (overlapping) doing independent research in political philosophy.
Founder of MeetN video conferencing platform.
For more information go to https://meetn.com/charityspecial
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Upgrading Your Video Conferencing Platform</p><p>Interview with MeetN Founder, Rick Raddatz</p><p><br></p><p>Rick Raddatz was twelve years at Microsoft as a product designer, developer, and marketer.</p><p>Twenty years as a serial tech entrepreneur / CEO</p><p>Sixteen years (overlapping) doing independent research in political philosophy.</p><p>Founder of MeetN video conferencing platform.</p><p>For more information go to <a href="https://meetn.com/charityspecial">https://meetn.com/charityspecial</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1919</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[faf87670-ffea-11ed-ab8a-c769968b542c]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2714355860.mp3?updated=1685562613" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leading a Historic House Museum Nonprofit</title>
      <description>Leading a Historic House Museum Nonprofit
Alyson Ramsey
President &amp; CEO Poplar Forest
Alyson Ramsey joined the Poplar Forest professional staff in 2002 and served as the Director of Development since 2012, prior to assuming the role of President &amp; CEO in January 2020. She is well-versed in nonprofit fundraising and administration. She has a background in capital campaign management; annual fund development, major gift solicitation and grant writing; donor cultivation and stewardship; and event management and budgeting. She recently orchestrated and implemented the A New Path to Jefferson capital campaign that successfully exceeded the organization’s fundraising goals. Ramsey holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Historic Preservation and Art History from the University of Mary Washington, and a Master of Urban and Environmental Planning from the University of Virginia and earned her Certified Fund Raising Executive (CFRE) designation in February 2018. She lives in Lynchburg with her husband, Peter, and their three teenage daughters and enjoys trail running.
More at https://www.poplarforest.org/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 30 May 2023 19:18:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leading a Historic House Museum Nonprofit</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Alyson Ramsey, President and CEO Poplar Forest</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leading a Historic House Museum Nonprofit
Alyson Ramsey
President &amp; CEO Poplar Forest
Alyson Ramsey joined the Poplar Forest professional staff in 2002 and served as the Director of Development since 2012, prior to assuming the role of President &amp; CEO in January 2020. She is well-versed in nonprofit fundraising and administration. She has a background in capital campaign management; annual fund development, major gift solicitation and grant writing; donor cultivation and stewardship; and event management and budgeting. She recently orchestrated and implemented the A New Path to Jefferson capital campaign that successfully exceeded the organization’s fundraising goals. Ramsey holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Historic Preservation and Art History from the University of Mary Washington, and a Master of Urban and Environmental Planning from the University of Virginia and earned her Certified Fund Raising Executive (CFRE) designation in February 2018. She lives in Lynchburg with her husband, Peter, and their three teenage daughters and enjoys trail running.
More at https://www.poplarforest.org/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Leading a Historic House Museum Nonprofit</strong></h1><p><strong>Alyson Ramsey</strong></p><p><strong>President &amp; CEO Poplar Forest</strong></p><p>Alyson Ramsey joined the Poplar Forest professional staff in 2002 and served as the Director of Development since 2012, prior to assuming the role of President &amp; CEO in January 2020. She is well-versed in nonprofit fundraising and administration. She has a background in capital campaign management; annual fund development, major gift solicitation and grant writing; donor cultivation and stewardship; and event management and budgeting. She recently orchestrated and implemented the <em>A New Path to Jefferson</em> capital campaign that successfully exceeded the organization’s fundraising goals. Ramsey holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Historic Preservation and Art History from the University of Mary Washington, and a Master of Urban and Environmental Planning from the University of Virginia and earned her Certified Fund Raising Executive (CFRE) designation in February 2018. She lives in Lynchburg with her husband, Peter, and their three teenage daughters and enjoys trail running.</p><p>More at <a href="https://www.poplarforest.org/"><strong>https://www.poplarforest.org/</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1859</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[c76c637e-ff1e-11ed-8c23-5ffc58fc57c4]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2933300141.mp3?updated=1685474618" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Inspiring Your Audience by Sharing Success Stories</title>
      <description>Inspiring Your Audience by Sharing Success Stories
Is your audience confused about what you do? It might feel uncomfortable but the solution is to be more direct about sharing your messaging. You're creating a ton of impact in your community and to create even more impact, people need to be aware of everything you're accomplishing. When you're giving everything to your cause, it's okay and even beneficial to brag a little bit. By defining your audience and sharing success stories you can show your impact in a way that lifts up your community and engages your network.
As co-owner of 2H Media, Aron specializes in helping non-profits engage their audiences with video-driven websites that eliminate confusion and drive leads. Aron Murch works with a wide range of nonprofits including accelerators and charities that want to achieve higher engagement with their communities. He ran his first fundraiser when he was 12 years old, and has never lost his passion for supporting great causes.
For more information go to - https://2h.media/


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2023 00:09:46 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Inspiring Your Audience by Sharing Success Stories</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Marketing Specialist Aron Murch</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Inspiring Your Audience by Sharing Success Stories
Is your audience confused about what you do? It might feel uncomfortable but the solution is to be more direct about sharing your messaging. You're creating a ton of impact in your community and to create even more impact, people need to be aware of everything you're accomplishing. When you're giving everything to your cause, it's okay and even beneficial to brag a little bit. By defining your audience and sharing success stories you can show your impact in a way that lifts up your community and engages your network.
As co-owner of 2H Media, Aron specializes in helping non-profits engage their audiences with video-driven websites that eliminate confusion and drive leads. Aron Murch works with a wide range of nonprofits including accelerators and charities that want to achieve higher engagement with their communities. He ran his first fundraiser when he was 12 years old, and has never lost his passion for supporting great causes.
For more information go to - https://2h.media/


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Inspiring Your Audience by Sharing Success Stories</strong></p><p>Is your audience confused about what you do? It might feel uncomfortable but the solution is to be more direct about sharing your messaging. You're creating a ton of impact in your community and to create even more impact, people need to be aware of everything you're accomplishing. When you're giving everything to your cause, it's okay and even beneficial to brag a little bit. By defining your audience and sharing success stories you can show your impact in a way that lifts up your community and engages your network.</p><p>As co-owner of 2H Media, Aron specializes in helping non-profits engage their audiences with video-driven websites that eliminate confusion and drive leads. <strong>Aron Murch</strong> works with a wide range of nonprofits including accelerators and charities that want to achieve higher engagement with their communities. He ran his first fundraiser when he was 12 years old, and has never lost his passion for supporting great causes.</p><p>For more information go to - <a href="https://2h.media/"><strong>https://2h.media/</strong></a></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1592</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[8c2d5842-f9c7-11ed-bd81-db78774f9a77]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8596327178.mp3?updated=1684887396" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>5 Steps to Overcoming Conflict Aversion</title>
      <description>5 Steps to Overcoming Conflict Aversion: Interview with Conflict Specialist Jerry Fu

Jerry Fu is a conflict resolution coach who helps Asian-American leaders advance in their career and life journeys. Having taken on several pharmacy leadership roles, Jerry started coaching in 2017 to help other Asian-American professionals deal with the conflict they encounter at work, in their culture, and within themselves. He has coached leaders at Capital One, Boehringer-Ingelheim, and Microsoft. He is an Associate Certified Coach through the International Coaching Federation and certified in Talent Optimization, EQi 2.0, and EQi 360. Prior to starting his coaching business, Jerry served as a pharmacist and began facilitating leadership workshops in 2012. Today, Jerry offers various coaching services, including individual coaching, group workshops, and keynote presentations. To learn more, you can visit https://www.adaptingleaders.com

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2023 18:48:51 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>5 Steps to Overcoming Conflict Aversion</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Conflict Specialist Jerry Fu</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>5 Steps to Overcoming Conflict Aversion: Interview with Conflict Specialist Jerry Fu

Jerry Fu is a conflict resolution coach who helps Asian-American leaders advance in their career and life journeys. Having taken on several pharmacy leadership roles, Jerry started coaching in 2017 to help other Asian-American professionals deal with the conflict they encounter at work, in their culture, and within themselves. He has coached leaders at Capital One, Boehringer-Ingelheim, and Microsoft. He is an Associate Certified Coach through the International Coaching Federation and certified in Talent Optimization, EQi 2.0, and EQi 360. Prior to starting his coaching business, Jerry served as a pharmacist and began facilitating leadership workshops in 2012. Today, Jerry offers various coaching services, including individual coaching, group workshops, and keynote presentations. To learn more, you can visit https://www.adaptingleaders.com

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>5 Steps to Overcoming Conflict Aversion: Interview with Conflict Specialist Jerry Fu</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>Jerry Fu is a conflict resolution coach who helps Asian-American leaders advance in their career and life journeys. Having taken on several pharmacy leadership roles, Jerry started coaching in 2017 to help other Asian-American professionals deal with the conflict they encounter at work, in their culture, and within themselves. He has coached leaders at Capital One, Boehringer-Ingelheim, and Microsoft. He is an Associate Certified Coach through the International Coaching Federation and certified in Talent Optimization, EQi 2.0, and EQi 360. Prior to starting his coaching business, Jerry served as a pharmacist and began facilitating leadership workshops in 2012. Today, Jerry offers various coaching services, including individual coaching, group workshops, and keynote presentations. To learn more, you can visit https://www.adaptingleaders.com</p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1669</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[81ad79dc-f41e-11ed-8c68-579b6924520a]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7912904254.mp3?updated=1684265038" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Burnout Is Not The Only Problem—Three Ways To Retain And Unleash Talent</title>
      <description>Burnout Is Not The Only Problem—Three Ways To Retain And Unleash Talent: 
Interview with Irent Shih
Keeping volunteers engaged and committed takes time and effort, but it’s within our power as leaders to create a culture that makes people feel important, connected, and needed. Creating that culture is a worthwhile investment that will most certainly make an organization stronger over the long run.

Irene Shih joined Minds Matter Bay Area (MMBay) as its first full-time CEO in March 2019, returning to her hometown roots in the Bay Area. For 18 years, Irene has served students in low-income communities — previously as a middle and high school classroom teacher in Arizona, a strategic advisor to superintendents in large urban school districts like Boston Public Schools, and a thought leader on state-level education policy in Massachusetts and Connecticut. Irene is a corps member alumna of Teach For America, holds an M.P.P. in Social &amp; Urban Policy from Harvard Kennedy School, and completed a B.A. in English Literature and Women's Studies from U.C. Berkeley. As the CEO of Minds Matter Bay Area, Irene has led the organization and its 300-student and 300-volunteer-strong community through the adversity of a global pandemic, through changing cultural attitudes about remote work and work-life balance, toward unprecedented levels of communal, operational, and programmatic growth. Above all, Irene and her incredible leadership team are focused on the culture and values of MMBay, fostering a world-class educational environment that nurtures generational impact on its students by cultivating transformational relationships between students and an ecosystem of volunteer mentors.
More about Irene Shih at www.mindsmatterbay.org


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2023 19:45:55 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Burnout Is Not The Only Problem—Three Ways To Retain And Unleash Talent</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Irent Shih</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Burnout Is Not The Only Problem—Three Ways To Retain And Unleash Talent: 
Interview with Irent Shih
Keeping volunteers engaged and committed takes time and effort, but it’s within our power as leaders to create a culture that makes people feel important, connected, and needed. Creating that culture is a worthwhile investment that will most certainly make an organization stronger over the long run.

Irene Shih joined Minds Matter Bay Area (MMBay) as its first full-time CEO in March 2019, returning to her hometown roots in the Bay Area. For 18 years, Irene has served students in low-income communities — previously as a middle and high school classroom teacher in Arizona, a strategic advisor to superintendents in large urban school districts like Boston Public Schools, and a thought leader on state-level education policy in Massachusetts and Connecticut. Irene is a corps member alumna of Teach For America, holds an M.P.P. in Social &amp; Urban Policy from Harvard Kennedy School, and completed a B.A. in English Literature and Women's Studies from U.C. Berkeley. As the CEO of Minds Matter Bay Area, Irene has led the organization and its 300-student and 300-volunteer-strong community through the adversity of a global pandemic, through changing cultural attitudes about remote work and work-life balance, toward unprecedented levels of communal, operational, and programmatic growth. Above all, Irene and her incredible leadership team are focused on the culture and values of MMBay, fostering a world-class educational environment that nurtures generational impact on its students by cultivating transformational relationships between students and an ecosystem of volunteer mentors.
More about Irene Shih at www.mindsmatterbay.org


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Burnout Is Not The Only Problem—Three Ways To Retain And Unleash Talent: </strong></p><p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Interview with Irent Shih</strong></p><p>Keeping volunteers engaged and committed takes time and effort, but it’s within our power as leaders to create a culture that makes people feel important, connected, and needed. Creating that culture is a worthwhile investment that will most certainly make an organization stronger over the long run.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Irene Shih</strong> joined Minds Matter Bay Area (MMBay) as its first full-time CEO in March 2019, returning to her hometown roots in the Bay Area. For 18 years, Irene has served students in low-income communities — previously as a middle and high school classroom teacher in Arizona, a strategic advisor to superintendents in large urban school districts like Boston Public Schools, and a thought leader on state-level education policy in Massachusetts and Connecticut. Irene is a corps member alumna of Teach For America, holds an M.P.P. in Social &amp; Urban Policy from Harvard Kennedy School, and completed a B.A. in English Literature and Women's Studies from U.C. Berkeley. As the CEO of Minds Matter Bay Area, Irene has led the organization and its 300-student and 300-volunteer-strong community through the adversity of a global pandemic, through changing cultural attitudes about remote work and work-life balance, toward unprecedented levels of communal, operational, and programmatic growth. Above all, Irene and her incredible leadership team are focused on the culture and values of MMBay, fostering a world-class educational environment that nurtures generational impact on its students by cultivating transformational relationships between students and an ecosystem of volunteer mentors.</p><p>More about Irene Shih at <a href="https://www.mindsmatterbay.org/"><strong>www.mindsmatterbay.org</strong></a></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1845</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[34699826-eea2-11ed-ab3b-93dbb474e075]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3320293135.mp3?updated=1683661895" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Creative Leadership: Keys to Co-Creating Value</title>
      <description>Creative Leadership: Keys to Co-Creating Value
 Interview with Steven Kowalski, Ph.D.
We can't sleepwalk ourselves into the future we hope to achieve. Together, at the intersection of creativity and leadership, we can solve our most challenging problems and co-create new value. But there are so many factors that prevent us from discovering what's possible in this intersection. Old "narratives" about what creativity is and who we are as creators get in the way. Traditional leadership styles prevent us from truly sharing leadership in service to our most pressing and important goals. We are more creative than we know, and increasingly, our work and lives need us to engage in collective leadership. We can—and must—improve how we get "Creative Together."
Steven Kowalski is an organization development consultant, speaker, executive coach, and the author of “Creative Together: Sparking Innovation in the New World of Work.” He has more than 25 years of experience facilitating the creativity of scientists, engineers, business leaders, and professionals across industries to blaze new trails, catalyze creative potential, and deliver real-world innovation. Steven delivers bold solutions that are scalable and sustainable through his firm, Creative LicenseTM Consulting Services. He holds a Ph.D. in adult learning and organizational creativity from UCLA, works for biopharma pioneer Genentech and is the author of over 100 workplace learning programs.
From Steven about his interview, "In my book, Creative Together: Sparking Innovation in the New World of Work, I offer a "new story" about what creativity really is, when and how it shows up in our work and lives, and how we can reclaim our creative potential. I offer a methodology called GIFTED: Greet the unknown with passion, Ignite your creative potential, Flex your Superpowers, Thrive in co-creation, Experiment in the Swamp, and Dare to dream big. Creative Together leads readers on a three-part journey to get better at co-creating new value - in all kinds of work and life pursuits."
More about Steve Kowalski at https://www.stevenkowalski.com


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 02 May 2023 20:54:02 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Creative Leadership: Keys to Co-Creating Value</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle> Interview with Steven Kowalski, Ph.D.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Creative Leadership: Keys to Co-Creating Value
 Interview with Steven Kowalski, Ph.D.
We can't sleepwalk ourselves into the future we hope to achieve. Together, at the intersection of creativity and leadership, we can solve our most challenging problems and co-create new value. But there are so many factors that prevent us from discovering what's possible in this intersection. Old "narratives" about what creativity is and who we are as creators get in the way. Traditional leadership styles prevent us from truly sharing leadership in service to our most pressing and important goals. We are more creative than we know, and increasingly, our work and lives need us to engage in collective leadership. We can—and must—improve how we get "Creative Together."
Steven Kowalski is an organization development consultant, speaker, executive coach, and the author of “Creative Together: Sparking Innovation in the New World of Work.” He has more than 25 years of experience facilitating the creativity of scientists, engineers, business leaders, and professionals across industries to blaze new trails, catalyze creative potential, and deliver real-world innovation. Steven delivers bold solutions that are scalable and sustainable through his firm, Creative LicenseTM Consulting Services. He holds a Ph.D. in adult learning and organizational creativity from UCLA, works for biopharma pioneer Genentech and is the author of over 100 workplace learning programs.
From Steven about his interview, "In my book, Creative Together: Sparking Innovation in the New World of Work, I offer a "new story" about what creativity really is, when and how it shows up in our work and lives, and how we can reclaim our creative potential. I offer a methodology called GIFTED: Greet the unknown with passion, Ignite your creative potential, Flex your Superpowers, Thrive in co-creation, Experiment in the Swamp, and Dare to dream big. Creative Together leads readers on a three-part journey to get better at co-creating new value - in all kinds of work and life pursuits."
More about Steve Kowalski at https://www.stevenkowalski.com


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p class="ql-align-center"><strong>Creative Leadership: Keys to Co-Creating Value</strong></p><p class="ql-align-center"><strong> Interview with Steven Kowalski, Ph.D.</strong></p><p>We can't sleepwalk ourselves into the future we hope to achieve. Together, at the intersection of creativity and leadership, we can solve our most challenging problems and co-create new value. But there are so many factors that prevent us from discovering what's possible in this intersection. Old "narratives" about what creativity is and who we are as creators get in the way. Traditional leadership styles prevent us from truly sharing leadership in service to our most pressing and important goals. We are more creative than we know, and increasingly, our work and lives need us to engage in collective leadership. We can—and must—improve how we get "Creative Together."</p><p><strong>Steven Kowalski</strong> is an organization development consultant, speaker, executive coach, and the author of “Creative Together: Sparking Innovation in the New World of Work.” He has more than 25 years of experience facilitating the creativity of scientists, engineers, business leaders, and professionals across industries to blaze new trails, catalyze creative potential, and deliver real-world innovation. Steven delivers bold solutions that are scalable and sustainable through his firm, Creative LicenseTM Consulting Services. He holds a Ph.D. in adult learning and organizational creativity from UCLA, works for biopharma pioneer Genentech and is the author of over 100 workplace learning programs.</p><p>From Steven about his interview, "In my book, Creative Together: Sparking Innovation in the New World of Work, I offer a "new story" about what creativity really is, when and how it shows up in our work and lives, and how we can reclaim our creative potential. I offer a methodology called GIFTED: Greet the unknown with passion, Ignite your creative potential, Flex your Superpowers, Thrive in co-creation, Experiment in the Swamp, and Dare to dream big. Creative Together leads readers on a three-part journey to get better at co-creating new value - in all kinds of work and life pursuits."</p><p>More about Steve Kowalski at <a href="https://www.stevenkowalski.com"><strong>https://www.stevenkowalski.com</strong></a></p><p class="ql-align-center"><br></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1820</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d0228fb0-e92b-11ed-85d8-7bf8df0ee63f]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4406056978.mp3?updated=1683061290" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Selling Your Vision to Increase Your Donations</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/04/25/npe-nonprofit-sales/</link>
      <description>Selling Your Vision to Increase Your Donations: Interview with Sales Maven CEO, Nikki Rausch

CEO of Sales Maven, Nikki Rausch has the unique ability to transform the misunderstood process of “selling”. With 25+ years of selling experience, entrepreneurs and small business owners now hire Nikki to show them how to sell successfully and authentically. Nikki has written 3 books, all available on Amazon. And she has a podcast called Sales Maven which you can find on your favorite podcast platform.
More information at https://yoursalesmaven.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2023 20:25:27 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Selling Your Vision to Increase Your Donations</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Sales Maven CEO, Nikki Rausch</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Selling Your Vision to Increase Your Donations: Interview with Sales Maven CEO, Nikki Rausch

CEO of Sales Maven, Nikki Rausch has the unique ability to transform the misunderstood process of “selling”. With 25+ years of selling experience, entrepreneurs and small business owners now hire Nikki to show them how to sell successfully and authentically. Nikki has written 3 books, all available on Amazon. And she has a podcast called Sales Maven which you can find on your favorite podcast platform.
More information at https://yoursalesmaven.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Selling Your Vision to Increase Your Donations: Interview with Sales Maven CEO, Nikki Rausch</h1><p><br></p><p>CEO of Sales Maven, Nikki Rausch has the unique ability to transform the misunderstood process of “selling”. With 25+ years of selling experience, entrepreneurs and small business owners now hire Nikki to show them how to sell successfully and authentically. Nikki has written 3 books, all available on Amazon. And she has a podcast called Sales Maven which you can find on your favorite podcast platform.</p><p>More information at <a href="https://yoursalesmaven.com/">https://yoursalesmaven.com/</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1632</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[a983ccfe-e3a7-11ed-b128-277884e52450]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3864304186.mp3?updated=1682454776" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to Become a Top 1% Communicator in Your Industry</title>
      <description>How to Become a Top 1% Communicator in Your Industry: Interview with Master Communicator Brenden Kumarasamy
Brenden is the founder of MasterTalk, he coaches ambitious executives &amp; entrepreneurs to become the top 1% of communicators in their industry. He also has a popular YouTube channel called MasterTalk, with the goal of providing free access to communication tools for everyone in the world.
More at https://www.rockstarcommunicator.com/
YouTube Channel - https://youtube.com/c/mastertalks
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2023 13:54:31 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How to Become a Top 1% Communicator in Your Industry</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Master Communicator Brenden Kumarasamy</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How to Become a Top 1% Communicator in Your Industry: Interview with Master Communicator Brenden Kumarasamy
Brenden is the founder of MasterTalk, he coaches ambitious executives &amp; entrepreneurs to become the top 1% of communicators in their industry. He also has a popular YouTube channel called MasterTalk, with the goal of providing free access to communication tools for everyone in the world.
More at https://www.rockstarcommunicator.com/
YouTube Channel - https://youtube.com/c/mastertalks
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>How to Become a Top 1% Communicator in Your Industry: Interview with Master Communicator Brenden Kumarasamy</p><p>Brenden is the founder of MasterTalk, he coaches ambitious executives &amp; entrepreneurs to become the top 1% of communicators in their industry. He also has a popular YouTube channel called MasterTalk, with the goal of providing free access to communication tools for everyone in the world.</p><p>More at <a href="https://www.rockstarcommunicator.com/"><strong>https://www.rockstarcommunicator.com/</strong></a></p><p><strong>YouTube Channel -</strong><a href="%20https://youtube.com/c/mastertalks"><strong> https://youtube.com/c/mastertalks</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1531</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d3bcd624-df82-11ed-ac7a-6fa75f04ff62]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1837843724.mp3?updated=1681999174" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Not just another event, but an event that tell Your Story! </title>
      <description>Not just another event, but an event that tell Your Story! Interview with event planner Martina Di Napoli

Storia Mia is the Italian phrase for My Story. Storia Mia Events was born with the idea of representing your unique stories and celebrating them through events. It is about You, Your Family, Your Community, and Your Story! We are committed to embracing diversity and culture; we love accents and are multilingual! We bring our passion for events and hospitality to every experience and relationship we build. We pride ourselves on focusing on all aspects of the event, creating an inclusive space and a fun time for everyone. Our events are held in the US and internationally with a destination emphasis in our home country, Italy. Ciao! Storia Mia Events supports animal rescues; part of our event proceeds will be donated to rescue organizations and field volunteer work. Martina was born in Naples, Italy, where she got her hospitable heritage and love for pizza. She moved to the U.S. to start a new adventure and began her journey working in luxury hotels and banquets in Miami Beach, Florida. After moving to California to continue her education, Martina worked for the City of Malibu in the Parks &amp; Recreation department planning community events while studying full-time. Because of her incredible work ethic and passion for designing and planning, she was fortunate to realize a childhood dream working in the Meetings and Events and Disney’s Fairy Tale Weddings at the Disneyland Resort in Anaheim, California. Martina is trilingual and a first-generation college graduate, having earned her bachelor’s degree from Cal Poly Pomona in Hospitality Management with an emphasis in Event Planning. After gaining years of experience in the corporate world, the luxury private sector, and the destination wedding market, Martina realized that her dream was to start a new chapter in her own life story through Storia Mia Events! When Martina is not in planning mode, she enjoys Latin dancing, reading books from her nightstand collection, and supporting animal rescues. One of her dreams is to volunteer for wildlife conservation in Africa! She loves to travel and to have quality time surrounded by good food and good company.
Especially non-profit should never cut budget on a professional event planners. These are the professionals who will ensure the future of the company by raising awareness and increasing revenue through each event execution. There is a difference between "running" the event and "hosting" the event and this is where the planners and coordinators are key partners to ensure success of the event.



Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2023 18:23:38 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Not just another event, but an event that tell Your Story! </itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Martian Di Napoli</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Not just another event, but an event that tell Your Story! Interview with event planner Martina Di Napoli

Storia Mia is the Italian phrase for My Story. Storia Mia Events was born with the idea of representing your unique stories and celebrating them through events. It is about You, Your Family, Your Community, and Your Story! We are committed to embracing diversity and culture; we love accents and are multilingual! We bring our passion for events and hospitality to every experience and relationship we build. We pride ourselves on focusing on all aspects of the event, creating an inclusive space and a fun time for everyone. Our events are held in the US and internationally with a destination emphasis in our home country, Italy. Ciao! Storia Mia Events supports animal rescues; part of our event proceeds will be donated to rescue organizations and field volunteer work. Martina was born in Naples, Italy, where she got her hospitable heritage and love for pizza. She moved to the U.S. to start a new adventure and began her journey working in luxury hotels and banquets in Miami Beach, Florida. After moving to California to continue her education, Martina worked for the City of Malibu in the Parks &amp; Recreation department planning community events while studying full-time. Because of her incredible work ethic and passion for designing and planning, she was fortunate to realize a childhood dream working in the Meetings and Events and Disney’s Fairy Tale Weddings at the Disneyland Resort in Anaheim, California. Martina is trilingual and a first-generation college graduate, having earned her bachelor’s degree from Cal Poly Pomona in Hospitality Management with an emphasis in Event Planning. After gaining years of experience in the corporate world, the luxury private sector, and the destination wedding market, Martina realized that her dream was to start a new chapter in her own life story through Storia Mia Events! When Martina is not in planning mode, she enjoys Latin dancing, reading books from her nightstand collection, and supporting animal rescues. One of her dreams is to volunteer for wildlife conservation in Africa! She loves to travel and to have quality time surrounded by good food and good company.
Especially non-profit should never cut budget on a professional event planners. These are the professionals who will ensure the future of the company by raising awareness and increasing revenue through each event execution. There is a difference between "running" the event and "hosting" the event and this is where the planners and coordinators are key partners to ensure success of the event.



Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Not just another event, but an event that tell Your Story! Interview with event planner Martina Di Napoli</strong></p><p><br></p><p>Storia Mia is the Italian phrase for My Story. Storia Mia Events was born with the idea of representing your unique stories and celebrating them through events. It is about You, Your Family, Your Community, and Your Story! We are committed to embracing diversity and culture; we love accents and are multilingual! We bring our passion for events and hospitality to every experience and relationship we build. We pride ourselves on focusing on all aspects of the event, creating an inclusive space and a fun time for everyone. Our events are held in the US and internationally with a destination emphasis in our home country, Italy. Ciao! Storia Mia Events supports animal rescues; part of our event proceeds will be donated to rescue organizations and field volunteer work. Martina was born in Naples, Italy, where she got her hospitable heritage and love for pizza. She moved to the U.S. to start a new adventure and began her journey working in luxury hotels and banquets in Miami Beach, Florida. After moving to California to continue her education, Martina worked for the City of Malibu in the Parks &amp; Recreation department planning community events while studying full-time. Because of her incredible work ethic and passion for designing and planning, she was fortunate to realize a childhood dream working in the Meetings and Events and Disney’s Fairy Tale Weddings at the Disneyland Resort in Anaheim, California. Martina is trilingual and a first-generation college graduate, having earned her bachelor’s degree from Cal Poly Pomona in Hospitality Management with an emphasis in Event Planning. After gaining years of experience in the corporate world, the luxury private sector, and the destination wedding market, Martina realized that her dream was to start a new chapter in her own life story through Storia Mia Events! When Martina is not in planning mode, she enjoys Latin dancing, reading books from her nightstand collection, and supporting animal rescues. One of her dreams is to volunteer for wildlife conservation in Africa! She loves to travel and to have quality time surrounded by good food and good company.</p><p>Especially non-profit should never cut budget on a professional event planners. These are the professionals who will ensure the future of the company by raising awareness and increasing revenue through each event execution. There is a difference between "running" the event and "hosting" the event and this is where the planners and coordinators are key partners to ensure success of the event.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1732</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>How Your Leadership Can Be Catalytic</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/03/28/npe-catalytic-leadership/</link>
      <description>How Your Leadership Can Be Catalytic:
Interview with William Attaway

William Attaway is a Leadership and Executive Coach for Catalytic Leadership, LLC, a company he founded to help leaders to INTENTIONALLY grow and thrive. He has served in local church ministry for over 25 years, and is currently the Lead Pastor of Southview Community Church, a church in Herndon, Virginia (near Washington, D.C.) where he has served since 2004. He holds a Ph.D. in Old Testament (with an emphasis in Biblical Backgrounds and Archaeology), and he loves to read and speak about leadership, organizational change, and building up people and teams. He's an Amazon #1 best-selling author, and his newest book is Catalytic Leadership (January, 2022). Originally from Birmingham, Alabama, William now lives in northern Virginia with his beautiful wife Charlotte and their two daughters.
Many leaders feel in over their head in their role or in their organization. Is there a roadmap anywhere to help you grow as a leader? How can I avoid the ditches that other leaders have fallen into? In his new book, Dr. William Attaway gleans from his own personal leadership experience as well as the experience of hundreds of leaders he has coached, and he shares key principles that can help leaders grow and add value to those they lead today, no matter where they are.
More about William Attaway - https://catalyticleadership.net/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2023 21:55:01 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How Your Leadership Can Be Catalytic</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with William Attaway</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How Your Leadership Can Be Catalytic:
Interview with William Attaway

William Attaway is a Leadership and Executive Coach for Catalytic Leadership, LLC, a company he founded to help leaders to INTENTIONALLY grow and thrive. He has served in local church ministry for over 25 years, and is currently the Lead Pastor of Southview Community Church, a church in Herndon, Virginia (near Washington, D.C.) where he has served since 2004. He holds a Ph.D. in Old Testament (with an emphasis in Biblical Backgrounds and Archaeology), and he loves to read and speak about leadership, organizational change, and building up people and teams. He's an Amazon #1 best-selling author, and his newest book is Catalytic Leadership (January, 2022). Originally from Birmingham, Alabama, William now lives in northern Virginia with his beautiful wife Charlotte and their two daughters.
Many leaders feel in over their head in their role or in their organization. Is there a roadmap anywhere to help you grow as a leader? How can I avoid the ditches that other leaders have fallen into? In his new book, Dr. William Attaway gleans from his own personal leadership experience as well as the experience of hundreds of leaders he has coached, and he shares key principles that can help leaders grow and add value to those they lead today, no matter where they are.
More about William Attaway - https://catalyticleadership.net/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1 class="ql-align-center"><strong>How Your Leadership Can Be Catalytic:</strong></h1><h1 class="ql-align-center"><strong>Interview with William Attaway</strong></h1><p><br></p><p><strong>William Attaway</strong> is a Leadership and Executive Coach for Catalytic Leadership, LLC, a company he founded to help leaders to INTENTIONALLY grow and thrive. He has served in local church ministry for over 25 years, and is currently the Lead Pastor of Southview Community Church, a church in Herndon, Virginia (near Washington, D.C.) where he has served since 2004. He holds a Ph.D. in Old Testament (with an emphasis in Biblical Backgrounds and Archaeology), and he loves to read and speak about leadership, organizational change, and building up people and teams. He's an Amazon #1 best-selling author, and his newest book is Catalytic Leadership (January, 2022). Originally from Birmingham, Alabama, William now lives in northern Virginia with his beautiful wife Charlotte and their two daughters.</p><p>Many leaders feel in over their head in their role or in their organization. Is there a roadmap anywhere to help you grow as a leader? How can I avoid the ditches that other leaders have fallen into? In his new book, Dr. William Attaway gleans from his own personal leadership experience as well as the experience of hundreds of leaders he has coached, and he shares key principles that can help leaders grow and add value to those they lead today, no matter where they are.</p><p>More about William Attaway - <a href="https://catalyticleadership.net/"><strong>https://catalyticleadership.net/</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1790</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9215718816.mp3?updated=1680040936" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Living an Extraordinary Life</title>
      <description>Living an Extraordinary Life:
Interview with Robert White


Robert White was raised in poverty and with much abuse. Dropped out of college after one semester due to the first of three heart attacks. Went on to found and lead two high-impact experiential learning companies with over one million graduates. Retired at 46 to a 14,500 sf home in Aspen. Then lost it all with lots of learning from business failure and divorce -- mostly unpleasant experiences. Now work as a mentor to executives committed to living extraordinary lives of success, joy, and satisfaction. Returned in 2020 from six years doing leadership training and mentoring executives in China.
Robert Shares: I've been on six non-profit boards and learned a lot about what works and doesn't work in that unique opportunity to serve and lead. For several years my company provided free seats in our premium leadership training, VisionQuest. There I noticed many well-intentioned leaders of nonprofits were close to burn-out, felt unappreciated for their sacrifice, and their personal lives suffered from their commitment.
 
Living an Extraordinary Life
It’s all about moving yourself and your organization from ordinary to extraordinary … living the life you were born to live. Here’s your opportunity to look at why some people live fulfilled, successful lives, while others seem to find contentment and success just out of reach. Robert’s best-selling books and award-winning audio program reveal an author who can help you explore what works – and doesn’t work – in creating your extraordinary life. 
“Living an Extraordinary Life” is an extraordinary book! This will have a positive impact on your life and on the lives of others when you read it.” —Ken Blanchard, author, The One-Minute Manager 
“Robert gave me a clearer sense of what my life is about, what is possible, what an incredible gift life is. I'm very proud of the songs I
wrote to celebrate my experience of working with my friend Robert White: "Higher Ground" and "The Gift You Are”
— John Denver, Singer, Songwriter, Activist
More about Robert White at https://www.therobertwhite.com/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Mar 2023 20:45:25 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Living an Extraordinary Life</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Robert White</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Living an Extraordinary Life:
Interview with Robert White


Robert White was raised in poverty and with much abuse. Dropped out of college after one semester due to the first of three heart attacks. Went on to found and lead two high-impact experiential learning companies with over one million graduates. Retired at 46 to a 14,500 sf home in Aspen. Then lost it all with lots of learning from business failure and divorce -- mostly unpleasant experiences. Now work as a mentor to executives committed to living extraordinary lives of success, joy, and satisfaction. Returned in 2020 from six years doing leadership training and mentoring executives in China.
Robert Shares: I've been on six non-profit boards and learned a lot about what works and doesn't work in that unique opportunity to serve and lead. For several years my company provided free seats in our premium leadership training, VisionQuest. There I noticed many well-intentioned leaders of nonprofits were close to burn-out, felt unappreciated for their sacrifice, and their personal lives suffered from their commitment.
 
Living an Extraordinary Life
It’s all about moving yourself and your organization from ordinary to extraordinary … living the life you were born to live. Here’s your opportunity to look at why some people live fulfilled, successful lives, while others seem to find contentment and success just out of reach. Robert’s best-selling books and award-winning audio program reveal an author who can help you explore what works – and doesn’t work – in creating your extraordinary life. 
“Living an Extraordinary Life” is an extraordinary book! This will have a positive impact on your life and on the lives of others when you read it.” —Ken Blanchard, author, The One-Minute Manager 
“Robert gave me a clearer sense of what my life is about, what is possible, what an incredible gift life is. I'm very proud of the songs I
wrote to celebrate my experience of working with my friend Robert White: "Higher Ground" and "The Gift You Are”
— John Denver, Singer, Songwriter, Activist
More about Robert White at https://www.therobertwhite.com/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1 class="ql-align-center"><strong>Living an Extraordinary Life:</strong></h1><h1 class="ql-align-center"><strong>Interview with Robert White</strong></h1><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>Robert White was raised in poverty and with much abuse. Dropped out of college after one semester due to the first of three heart attacks. Went on to found and lead two high-impact experiential learning companies with over one million graduates. Retired at 46 to a 14,500 sf home in Aspen. Then lost it all with lots of learning from business failure and divorce -- mostly unpleasant experiences. Now work as a mentor to executives committed to living extraordinary lives of success, joy, and satisfaction. Returned in 2020 from six years doing leadership training and mentoring executives in China.</p><p>Robert Shares: I've been on six non-profit boards and learned a lot about what works and doesn't work in that unique opportunity to serve and lead. For several years my company provided free seats in our premium leadership training, VisionQuest. There I noticed many well-intentioned leaders of nonprofits were close to burn-out, felt unappreciated for their sacrifice, and their personal lives suffered from their commitment.</p><h3> </h3><h3><strong>Living an Extraordinary Life</strong></h3><p>It’s all about moving yourself and your organization from ordinary to extraordinary … living the life you were born to live. Here’s your opportunity to look at why some people live fulfilled, successful lives, while others seem to find contentment and success just out of reach. Robert’s best-selling books and award-winning audio program reveal an author who can help you explore what works – and doesn’t work – in creating your extraordinary life. </p><p>“Living an Extraordinary Life” is an extraordinary book! This will have a positive impact on your life and on the lives of others when you read it.” —<em>Ken Blanchard, author, The One-Minute Manager</em> </p><p>“Robert gave me a clearer sense of what my life is about, what is possible, what an incredible gift life is. I'm very proud of the songs I</p><p>wrote to celebrate my experience of working with my friend Robert White: "Higher Ground" and "The Gift You Are”</p><p>— <em>John Denver, Singer, Songwriter, Activist</em></p><p>More about Robert White at <a href="https://www.therobertwhite.com/"><strong>https://www.therobertwhite.com/</strong></a></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1761</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[c13b1a08-c829-11ed-8a9a-a31ef4d2e19c]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9760134838.mp3?updated=1679432018" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Secrets for Safe Money and a Fabulous Future, Create Income You Will Never Outlive</title>
      <description>Secrets for Safe Money and a Fabulous Future, Create Income You Will Never Outlive with Kris Miller
Kris Miller's message for nonprofit leaders and clergy regarding estate planning is to remember the importance of planning for the future. Estate planning is not only about ensuring that your assets are distributed according to your wishes, but also about making sure that your mission and values continue to be carried out after you are gone. It is important to work with an estate planning attorney to ensure that your assets are protected, your beneficiaries are taken care of, and your nonprofit or religious organization is provided for in the future. Consider including charitable giving in your estate plan as a way to ensure that your legacy lives on and continues to make a difference in the world.
Kris Miller is a Legacy Wealth Strategist. Her clients learn how to change their families’ financial realities and create incomes they will never outlive. Not one person has lost a single dime on her watch. She's an engaging speaker and has spoken extensively on personal finance, retirement &amp; estate planning, living trusts and asset protection at live events and for radio, TV and digital media. Kris is a highly sought-after speaker &amp; trainer for organizations and businesses including Citibank, Keller Williams Realty, the American Payroll Association and the U.S. Government Financial Officers Association. She’s helped over 6,000 families avoid financial disaster by strategically planning for their futures. Kris is the author of the #1 bestseller “Ready for PREtirement: 3 Secrets for Safe Money and a F
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:16:14 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Secrets for Safe Money and a Fabulous Future, Create Income You Will Never Outlive</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Kris Miller</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Secrets for Safe Money and a Fabulous Future, Create Income You Will Never Outlive with Kris Miller
Kris Miller's message for nonprofit leaders and clergy regarding estate planning is to remember the importance of planning for the future. Estate planning is not only about ensuring that your assets are distributed according to your wishes, but also about making sure that your mission and values continue to be carried out after you are gone. It is important to work with an estate planning attorney to ensure that your assets are protected, your beneficiaries are taken care of, and your nonprofit or religious organization is provided for in the future. Consider including charitable giving in your estate plan as a way to ensure that your legacy lives on and continues to make a difference in the world.
Kris Miller is a Legacy Wealth Strategist. Her clients learn how to change their families’ financial realities and create incomes they will never outlive. Not one person has lost a single dime on her watch. She's an engaging speaker and has spoken extensively on personal finance, retirement &amp; estate planning, living trusts and asset protection at live events and for radio, TV and digital media. Kris is a highly sought-after speaker &amp; trainer for organizations and businesses including Citibank, Keller Williams Realty, the American Payroll Association and the U.S. Government Financial Officers Association. She’s helped over 6,000 families avoid financial disaster by strategically planning for their futures. Kris is the author of the #1 bestseller “Ready for PREtirement: 3 Secrets for Safe Money and a F
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Secrets for Safe Money and a Fabulous Future, Create Income You Will Never Outlive with Kris Miller</strong></p><p>Kris Miller's message for nonprofit leaders and clergy regarding estate planning is to remember the importance of planning for the future. Estate planning is not only about ensuring that your assets are distributed according to your wishes, but also about making sure that your mission and values continue to be carried out after you are gone. It is important to work with an estate planning attorney to ensure that your assets are protected, your beneficiaries are taken care of, and your nonprofit or religious organization is provided for in the future. Consider including charitable giving in your estate plan as a way to ensure that your legacy lives on and continues to make a difference in the world.</p><p>Kris Miller is a Legacy Wealth Strategist. Her clients learn how to change their families’ financial realities and create incomes they will never outlive. Not one person has lost a single dime on her watch. She's an engaging speaker and has spoken extensively on personal finance, retirement &amp; estate planning, living trusts and asset protection at live events and for radio, TV and digital media. Kris is a highly sought-after speaker &amp; trainer for organizations and businesses including Citibank, Keller Williams Realty, the American Payroll Association and the U.S. Government Financial Officers Association. She’s helped over 6,000 families avoid financial disaster by strategically planning for their futures. Kris is the author of the #1 bestseller “Ready for PREtirement: 3 Secrets for Safe Money and a F</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1662</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>RiverLogic: Tools to Transform Resistance</title>
      <description>RiverLogic: Tools to Transform Resistance:
Interview with Denise Blanc
We have the capacity to soften resistance and support more ease in our communication with anyone- but we will need intention, courage, and willingness to build more vital skills.
How Denise Blanc describes herself – I believe that outstanding leadership requires courage – the courage to be authentic, not always to know the answer, and the courage to speak the truth. It also requires the ability to manage relationships, navigate social networks, influence, and inspire others. This understanding is rooted in over two decades of working in Organization Development as a leadership/team coach, facilitator, mediator, and internal senior leader. Whether coaching CEOs, executive directors, engineers, physician leaders, or their teams, I provide practical tools to tackle tough conversations, harness a growth mindset, and create high trust/high-performing cultures. Consulting in both healthcare, high education, and business industries, my key areas of focus include leadership/team development, emotional intelligence, equity &amp; positive change, and conflict transformation. Over my career, I have been the chief architect of three leadership academies (serving 800+ leaders) from Supervisor through C-Suite, all providing a shared language and the skillset to lead across multiple sites and disciplines.
While at the St. Joseph Health System, I was the recipient of several awards for leadership design, “best practice for developing future leaders” and “The International Spirt at Work Award.” I hold a BA in Psychology from the University of Colorado, and an MA in Health Education from JFK University. My background includes certifications in Conflict Resolution and as an Emotional Intelligence Coach through Six Seconds at the ACC level. I have advanced skills interpreting various industry-recognized assessment instruments including Six Seconds Emotional Intelligence tests for leaders and organizations, DiSC, Enneagram, Gallup Strengthsfinder, The TKI Conflict Assessment, and numerous 360 feedback assessments. I have trained extensively with the program “Crucial Conversations.” For the past five years, I have taught programs on social justice and race identity for both healthcare and within Shambhala, a global Tibetan Buddhist organization. I am the author of Riverlogic: Tools to Transform Resistance and Create Flow in all our Relationships.
More about Denise at https://www.riverlogictools.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 07 Mar 2023 20:34:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>RiverLogic: Tools to Transform Resistance</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Denise Blanc</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>RiverLogic: Tools to Transform Resistance:
Interview with Denise Blanc
We have the capacity to soften resistance and support more ease in our communication with anyone- but we will need intention, courage, and willingness to build more vital skills.
How Denise Blanc describes herself – I believe that outstanding leadership requires courage – the courage to be authentic, not always to know the answer, and the courage to speak the truth. It also requires the ability to manage relationships, navigate social networks, influence, and inspire others. This understanding is rooted in over two decades of working in Organization Development as a leadership/team coach, facilitator, mediator, and internal senior leader. Whether coaching CEOs, executive directors, engineers, physician leaders, or their teams, I provide practical tools to tackle tough conversations, harness a growth mindset, and create high trust/high-performing cultures. Consulting in both healthcare, high education, and business industries, my key areas of focus include leadership/team development, emotional intelligence, equity &amp; positive change, and conflict transformation. Over my career, I have been the chief architect of three leadership academies (serving 800+ leaders) from Supervisor through C-Suite, all providing a shared language and the skillset to lead across multiple sites and disciplines.
While at the St. Joseph Health System, I was the recipient of several awards for leadership design, “best practice for developing future leaders” and “The International Spirt at Work Award.” I hold a BA in Psychology from the University of Colorado, and an MA in Health Education from JFK University. My background includes certifications in Conflict Resolution and as an Emotional Intelligence Coach through Six Seconds at the ACC level. I have advanced skills interpreting various industry-recognized assessment instruments including Six Seconds Emotional Intelligence tests for leaders and organizations, DiSC, Enneagram, Gallup Strengthsfinder, The TKI Conflict Assessment, and numerous 360 feedback assessments. I have trained extensively with the program “Crucial Conversations.” For the past five years, I have taught programs on social justice and race identity for both healthcare and within Shambhala, a global Tibetan Buddhist organization. I am the author of Riverlogic: Tools to Transform Resistance and Create Flow in all our Relationships.
More about Denise at https://www.riverlogictools.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1 class="ql-align-center">RiverLogic: Tools to Transform Resistance:</h1><h1 class="ql-align-center">Interview with Denise Blanc</h1><p>We have the capacity to soften resistance and support more ease in our communication with anyone- but we will need intention, courage, and willingness to build more vital skills.</p><p>How Denise Blanc describes herself – I believe that outstanding leadership requires courage – the courage to be authentic, not always to know the answer, and the courage to speak the truth. It also requires the ability to manage relationships, navigate social networks, influence, and inspire others. This understanding is rooted in over two decades of working in Organization Development as a leadership/team coach, facilitator, mediator, and internal senior leader. Whether coaching CEOs, executive directors, engineers, physician leaders, or their teams, I provide practical tools to tackle tough conversations, harness a growth mindset, and create high trust/high-performing cultures. Consulting in both healthcare, high education, and business industries, my key areas of focus include leadership/team development, emotional intelligence, equity &amp; positive change, and conflict transformation. Over my career, I have been the chief architect of three leadership academies (serving 800+ leaders) from Supervisor through C-Suite, all providing a shared language and the skillset to lead across multiple sites and disciplines.</p><p>While at the St. Joseph Health System, I was the recipient of several awards for leadership design, “best practice for developing future leaders” and “The International Spirt at Work Award.” I hold a BA in Psychology from the University of Colorado, and an MA in Health Education from JFK University. My background includes certifications in Conflict Resolution and as an Emotional Intelligence Coach through Six Seconds at the ACC level. I have advanced skills interpreting various industry-recognized assessment instruments including Six Seconds Emotional Intelligence tests for leaders and organizations, DiSC, Enneagram, Gallup Strengthsfinder, The TKI Conflict Assessment, and numerous 360 feedback assessments. I have trained extensively with the program “Crucial Conversations.” For the past five years, I have taught programs on social justice and race identity for both healthcare and within Shambhala, a global Tibetan Buddhist organization. I am the author of Riverlogic: Tools to Transform Resistance and Create Flow in all our Relationships.</p><p>More about Denise at <a href="https://www.riverlogictools.com/">https://www.riverlogictools.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1843</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Using Art Creation to Make Man-Made Systems Human Adaptive to Lift our Human-Potential</title>
      <description>Using Art Creation to Make Man-Made Systems Human Adaptive to Lift our Human-Potential
Michaell Magrutsche, Austrian/Californian multidisciplinary artist, creativity-awareness educator, speaker, and author. He works on raising awareness of our limitless human potential and comprehending wisdom. Michaell is an advocate for helping understand neurodiversity. Michaell’s dyslexia and dysgraphia forced him to develop an awareness of seeing the world purely from a human perspective. Creating art completed his awareness of what it is to be human-relevant vs system-relevant.
Michaell’s talent is recognizing context due to his neurodiversity to seed a new consciousness that allows us to unveil the untapped superpowers of human limitlessness, art/creativity, healthy discourse, and adaptability to make all humans fit within our human tapestry. Because Michaell has been a sick child also dyslexic and has dysgraphia (hand-eye coordination) he could only navigate in very few systems. Michaell was forced to find his salvation in art. Interacting with others outside of systems and creating art helped him feel humane and got him through life.
Michaell is completely self-taught. Art allowed him to experience life with other humans and 5 books later, Michaell produced with Robert Evans and became a City Arts Commissioner, etc., etc. Michaell discovered that creating (art) is humans' greatest inherent superpower, followed by healthy dialogue and adaptability. These superpowers are applicable to everything from Creativity, Leadership, Business, Education, Relationships and all else humans focus on. Systems versus Humans: Today, Michaell keeps unveiling the limitations of all man-made systems like technology, science, and the economy that work with generalized knowledge. With 8 billion unique people, each with different DNA and fingerprints systems have become rigid and outdated. The main issue is that we have to adapt to systems increasingly and it has become too much life force we sacrifice to keep systems running. Since we are the Gods of man-made systems we can adapt them to our human individuality instead of us forcing ourselves to be system adaptive.
This work will finally raise our human potential instead of making us blind and ignore our human worth for system values and keep repeating history. Michaell’s mission is to show us something very different. We are in an unconsciousness crisis. We don’t see that all our ever-growing (financial principles) creations led us to a pivotal point of diminishing returns. Today, we have such an overabundance of goods and services that we have become incapable of consuming them. Everyone keeps creating and marketing their goods and services and besides lack of money, we don’t even have the time to sort out what’s best for us and use or consume all those offerings. Time has become humanity's most valuable thing, not money, and systems that we give our life force to function. Work and tinkering can enrich our human experience to live more fulfilled lives but we unconsciously deprive ourselves of living a human life through systems, our metaverse. This is why we have to become conscious.
More about Michaell at https://michaellm.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2023 00:40:28 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Using Art Creation to Make Man-Made Systems Human Adaptive to Lift our Human-Potential</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with artist Michael Magrutsche</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Using Art Creation to Make Man-Made Systems Human Adaptive to Lift our Human-Potential
Michaell Magrutsche, Austrian/Californian multidisciplinary artist, creativity-awareness educator, speaker, and author. He works on raising awareness of our limitless human potential and comprehending wisdom. Michaell is an advocate for helping understand neurodiversity. Michaell’s dyslexia and dysgraphia forced him to develop an awareness of seeing the world purely from a human perspective. Creating art completed his awareness of what it is to be human-relevant vs system-relevant.
Michaell’s talent is recognizing context due to his neurodiversity to seed a new consciousness that allows us to unveil the untapped superpowers of human limitlessness, art/creativity, healthy discourse, and adaptability to make all humans fit within our human tapestry. Because Michaell has been a sick child also dyslexic and has dysgraphia (hand-eye coordination) he could only navigate in very few systems. Michaell was forced to find his salvation in art. Interacting with others outside of systems and creating art helped him feel humane and got him through life.
Michaell is completely self-taught. Art allowed him to experience life with other humans and 5 books later, Michaell produced with Robert Evans and became a City Arts Commissioner, etc., etc. Michaell discovered that creating (art) is humans' greatest inherent superpower, followed by healthy dialogue and adaptability. These superpowers are applicable to everything from Creativity, Leadership, Business, Education, Relationships and all else humans focus on. Systems versus Humans: Today, Michaell keeps unveiling the limitations of all man-made systems like technology, science, and the economy that work with generalized knowledge. With 8 billion unique people, each with different DNA and fingerprints systems have become rigid and outdated. The main issue is that we have to adapt to systems increasingly and it has become too much life force we sacrifice to keep systems running. Since we are the Gods of man-made systems we can adapt them to our human individuality instead of us forcing ourselves to be system adaptive.
This work will finally raise our human potential instead of making us blind and ignore our human worth for system values and keep repeating history. Michaell’s mission is to show us something very different. We are in an unconsciousness crisis. We don’t see that all our ever-growing (financial principles) creations led us to a pivotal point of diminishing returns. Today, we have such an overabundance of goods and services that we have become incapable of consuming them. Everyone keeps creating and marketing their goods and services and besides lack of money, we don’t even have the time to sort out what’s best for us and use or consume all those offerings. Time has become humanity's most valuable thing, not money, and systems that we give our life force to function. Work and tinkering can enrich our human experience to live more fulfilled lives but we unconsciously deprive ourselves of living a human life through systems, our metaverse. This is why we have to become conscious.
More about Michaell at https://michaellm.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1 class="ql-align-center"><strong>Using Art Creation to Make Man-Made Systems Human Adaptive to Lift our Human-Potential</strong></h1><p><strong>Michaell Magrutsche</strong>, Austrian/Californian multidisciplinary artist, creativity-awareness educator, speaker, and author. He works on raising awareness of our limitless human potential and comprehending wisdom. Michaell is an advocate for helping understand neurodiversity. Michaell’s dyslexia and dysgraphia forced him to develop an awareness of seeing the world purely from a human perspective. Creating art completed his awareness of what it is to be human-relevant vs system-relevant.</p><p>Michaell’s talent is recognizing context due to his neurodiversity to seed a new consciousness that allows us to unveil the untapped superpowers of human limitlessness, art/creativity, healthy discourse, and adaptability to make all humans fit within our human tapestry. Because Michaell has been a sick child also dyslexic and has dysgraphia (hand-eye coordination) he could only navigate in very few systems. Michaell was forced to find his salvation in art. Interacting with others outside of systems and creating art helped him feel humane and got him through life.</p><p>Michaell is completely self-taught. Art allowed him to experience life with other humans and 5 books later, Michaell produced with Robert Evans and became a City Arts Commissioner, etc., etc. Michaell discovered that creating (art) is humans' greatest inherent superpower, followed by healthy dialogue and adaptability. These superpowers are applicable to everything from Creativity, Leadership, Business, Education, Relationships and all else humans focus on. Systems versus Humans: Today, Michaell keeps unveiling the limitations of all man-made systems like technology, science, and the economy that work with generalized knowledge. With 8 billion unique people, each with different DNA and fingerprints systems have become rigid and outdated. The main issue is that we have to adapt to systems increasingly and it has become too much life force we sacrifice to keep systems running. Since we are the Gods of man-made systems we can adapt them to our human individuality instead of us forcing ourselves to be system adaptive.</p><p>This work will finally raise our human potential instead of making us blind and ignore our human worth for system values and keep repeating history. Michaell’s mission is to show us something very different. We are in an unconsciousness crisis. We don’t see that all our ever-growing (financial principles) creations led us to a pivotal point of diminishing returns. Today, we have such an overabundance of goods and services that we have become incapable of consuming them. Everyone keeps creating and marketing their goods and services and besides lack of money, we don’t even have the time to sort out what’s best for us and use or consume all those offerings. Time has become humanity's most valuable thing, not money, and systems that we give our life force to function. Work and tinkering can enrich our human experience to live more fulfilled lives but we unconsciously deprive ourselves of living a human life through systems, our metaverse. This is why we have to become conscious.</p><p class="ql-align-center">More about Michaell at <a href="https://michaellm.com/"><strong>https://michaellm.com/</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1641</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How People Unintentionally Escalate Conflict in Your Nonprofit</title>
      <description>How People Unintentionally Escalate Conflict in Your Nonprofit
Team members who are invested in a mission that impacts communities and the world for good are fueled with passion for important causes. It is normal and healthy to expect conflict, but engaging it meaningfully can establish a safe work culture where all voices are represented. It's not always natural to have these tools available, but I would love to equip your listeners with effective strategies they can implement tomorrow!
Carol Bowser, J.D. is a workplace conflict expert. After practicing Employment Law for several years, Carol founded Conflict Management Strategies when she realized a lawsuit can’t deliver the level of resolution and satisfaction that is gained when people are actively involved in creating solutions to their workplace conflict. Carol’s clients come with a wide range of employers because conflict is universal across all industries and types of organizations. Where there are people, there is conflict. The key is to help people recognize and address conflict before it damages working relationships and creates organizational drag. In her over 20 years of experience, she has discovered some universal themes about workplace conflict and loves to share how people at all levels can strengthen their conflict resolution muscles.
More about Carol Bowser at https://conflictmanagementstrategies.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 20:11:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How People Unintentionally Escalate Conflict in Your Nonprofit</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Carol Bowser, J. D.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How People Unintentionally Escalate Conflict in Your Nonprofit
Team members who are invested in a mission that impacts communities and the world for good are fueled with passion for important causes. It is normal and healthy to expect conflict, but engaging it meaningfully can establish a safe work culture where all voices are represented. It's not always natural to have these tools available, but I would love to equip your listeners with effective strategies they can implement tomorrow!
Carol Bowser, J.D. is a workplace conflict expert. After practicing Employment Law for several years, Carol founded Conflict Management Strategies when she realized a lawsuit can’t deliver the level of resolution and satisfaction that is gained when people are actively involved in creating solutions to their workplace conflict. Carol’s clients come with a wide range of employers because conflict is universal across all industries and types of organizations. Where there are people, there is conflict. The key is to help people recognize and address conflict before it damages working relationships and creates organizational drag. In her over 20 years of experience, she has discovered some universal themes about workplace conflict and loves to share how people at all levels can strengthen their conflict resolution muscles.
More about Carol Bowser at https://conflictmanagementstrategies.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1 class="ql-align-center"><strong>How People Unintentionally Escalate Conflict in Your Nonprofit</strong></h1><p>Team members who are invested in a mission that impacts communities and the world for good are fueled with passion for important causes. It is normal and healthy to expect conflict, but engaging it meaningfully can establish a safe work culture where all voices are represented. It's not always natural to have these tools available, but I would love to equip your listeners with effective strategies they can implement tomorrow!</p><p><strong>Carol Bowser, J.D.</strong> is a workplace conflict expert. After practicing Employment Law for several years, Carol founded Conflict Management Strategies when she realized a lawsuit can’t deliver the level of resolution and satisfaction that is gained when people are actively involved in creating solutions to their workplace conflict. Carol’s clients come with a wide range of employers because conflict is universal across all industries and types of organizations. Where there are people, there is conflict. The key is to help people recognize and address conflict before it damages working relationships and creates organizational drag. In her over 20 years of experience, she has discovered some universal themes about workplace conflict and loves to share how people at all levels can strengthen their conflict resolution muscles.</p><p>More about Carol Bowser at <a href="https://conflictmanagementstrategies.com/"><strong>https://conflictmanagementstrategies.com/</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1951</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[63fa1b98-b224-11ed-ab22-7f3776c5d7e7]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3585765205.mp3?updated=1677010788" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>Sales Leadership in Nonprofits</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/02/14/npe-template-copy/</link>
      <description>Sales Leadership In Not for Profits: “Selling” Donations so You and the Donor Feel Good

Steve Brossman is a 9 times Amazon Best Selling Author in Marketing and Sales. He has 20 years TV and Video experience including hosting his own Network TV Show and has been an Executive Producer for Warner Bros. He has created several 6 and 7 figure multi-national businesses of his own, including inventing and marketing an environmental product selling 4 million units into 26 Countries. Steve has spoken in 15 countries and trained over 65,000 Entrepreneurs, Professionals and Business Owners to Stand out in their market. Today Steve is going to show you how to attract more clients and boost your sales conversions without being pushy with the most powerful secret weapon …. BUYING ENERGY.
More about Steve Brossman at https://steve@stevebrossman.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2023 20:33:30 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Sales Leadership in Nonprofits</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Steve Brossman</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Sales Leadership In Not for Profits: “Selling” Donations so You and the Donor Feel Good

Steve Brossman is a 9 times Amazon Best Selling Author in Marketing and Sales. He has 20 years TV and Video experience including hosting his own Network TV Show and has been an Executive Producer for Warner Bros. He has created several 6 and 7 figure multi-national businesses of his own, including inventing and marketing an environmental product selling 4 million units into 26 Countries. Steve has spoken in 15 countries and trained over 65,000 Entrepreneurs, Professionals and Business Owners to Stand out in their market. Today Steve is going to show you how to attract more clients and boost your sales conversions without being pushy with the most powerful secret weapon …. BUYING ENERGY.
More about Steve Brossman at https://steve@stevebrossman.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h3 class="ql-align-center">Sales Leadership In Not for Profits: “Selling” Donations so You and the Donor Feel Good</h3><p><br></p><p><strong>Steve Brossman</strong> is a 9 times Amazon Best Selling Author in Marketing and Sales. He has 20 years TV and Video experience including hosting his own Network TV Show and has been an Executive Producer for Warner Bros. He has created several 6 and 7 figure multi-national businesses of his own, including inventing and marketing an environmental product selling 4 million units into 26 Countries. Steve has spoken in 15 countries and trained over 65,000 Entrepreneurs, Professionals and Business Owners to Stand out in their market. Today Steve is going to show you how to attract more clients and boost your sales conversions without being pushy with the most powerful secret weapon …. BUYING ENERGY.</p><p>More about Steve Brossman at <a href="https://steve@stevebrossman.com/"><strong>https://steve@stevebrossman.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1992</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2b68e868-aca7-11ed-9f79-cfdca485e45a]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8724404558.mp3?updated=1676407250" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How Nonprofits and Their Leadership Teams Can Grow Their Impact Faster Than They Ever Thought Possible</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/2023/02/07/npe-grow-impact/</link>
      <description>How Nonprofits and Their Leadership Teams Can Grow Their Impact Faster Than They Ever Thought Possible: Interview with Pinnacle Certified Coach Mark Slabaugh

About Mark in his words: I am blessed to be a coach. My unique background includes non-profit leadership and entrepreneurship. These experiences taught me how to recruit, lead, and retain teams. I am a student of my surroundings and the people I meet. I bring expertise in a truth-telling conversation. I tenaciously chase my personal goals. And I enjoy helping others leverage their skills for the team.

As an Executive Coach and Pinnacle Business Guide, I have the joy of coaching teams with crazy dreams. Since I have also sat in the leader's chair, I understand the pressures he/she faces. This has brought some of the greatest joy in my professional career - helping leaders accomplish a crazy dream.

My wife and I enjoy helping our kids chase their dreams. All four are engaged in activities and school pursuits that are unique to them. It's been such a joy to cheer for them in sports and life.
https://slabaughcoaching.com/
http://TheNonprofitExchange.org
#TheNonprofitExchange
#MarkSlabaugh
#HughBallou
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2023 21:46:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How Nonprofits and Their Leadership Teams Can Grow Their Impact Faster Than They Ever Thought Possible</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Pinacle Certified Coach Mark Slabaugh</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How Nonprofits and Their Leadership Teams Can Grow Their Impact Faster Than They Ever Thought Possible: Interview with Pinnacle Certified Coach Mark Slabaugh

About Mark in his words: I am blessed to be a coach. My unique background includes non-profit leadership and entrepreneurship. These experiences taught me how to recruit, lead, and retain teams. I am a student of my surroundings and the people I meet. I bring expertise in a truth-telling conversation. I tenaciously chase my personal goals. And I enjoy helping others leverage their skills for the team.

As an Executive Coach and Pinnacle Business Guide, I have the joy of coaching teams with crazy dreams. Since I have also sat in the leader's chair, I understand the pressures he/she faces. This has brought some of the greatest joy in my professional career - helping leaders accomplish a crazy dream.

My wife and I enjoy helping our kids chase their dreams. All four are engaged in activities and school pursuits that are unique to them. It's been such a joy to cheer for them in sports and life.
https://slabaughcoaching.com/
http://TheNonprofitExchange.org
#TheNonprofitExchange
#MarkSlabaugh
#HughBallou
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>How Nonprofits and Their Leadership Teams Can Grow Their Impact Faster Than They Ever Thought Possible: Interview with Pinnacle Certified Coach Mark Slabaugh</p><p><br></p><p>About Mark in his words: I am blessed to be a coach. My unique background includes non-profit leadership and entrepreneurship. These experiences taught me how to recruit, lead, and retain teams. I am a student of my surroundings and the people I meet. I bring expertise in a truth-telling conversation. I tenaciously chase my personal goals. And I enjoy helping others leverage their skills for the team.</p><p><br></p><p>As an Executive Coach and Pinnacle Business Guide, I have the joy of coaching teams with crazy dreams. Since I have also sat in the leader's chair, I understand the pressures he/she faces. This has brought some of the greatest joy in my professional career - helping leaders accomplish a crazy dream.</p><p><br></p><p>My wife and I enjoy helping our kids chase their dreams. All four are engaged in activities and school pursuits that are unique to them. It's been such a joy to cheer for them in sports and life.</p><p><a href="https://slabaughcoaching.com/">https://slabaughcoaching.com/</a></p><p>http://TheNonprofitExchange.org</p><p>#TheNonprofitExchange</p><p>#MarkSlabaugh</p><p>#HughBallou</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1912</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d6c7ce5c-a731-11ed-86b6-e768629d31f9]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1451933390.mp3?updated=1675807731" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What's Your Value...and Do You Know What It Is?</title>
      <description>What's Your Value...and Do You Know What It Is?
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2023 20:16:11 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>What's Your Value...and Do You Know What It Is?</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Mark Boundy</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>What's Your Value...and Do You Know What It Is?
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>What's Your Value...and Do You Know What It Is?</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2061</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2955669a-a1a4-11ed-a414-07dca5097020]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3857412731.mp3?updated=1675196495" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leading a Community Organization Focused on Community Needs. Interview with Jay Parker, President and CEO of the UMCA of Central Virginia.</title>
      <description>Leading a Community Organization Focused on Community Needs. Interview with Jay Parker, President and CEO of the UMCA of Central Virginia.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2023 20:57:50 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leading a Community Organization Focused on Community Needs. Interview with Jay Parker, President and CEO of the UMCA of Central Virginia.</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leading a Community Organization Focused on Community Needs. Interview with Jay Parker, President and CEO of the UMCA of Central Virginia.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leading a Community Organization Focused on Community Needs. Interview with Jay Parker, President and CEO of the UMCA of Central Virginia.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Leading a Community Organization Focused on Community Needs. Interview with Jay Parker, President and CEO of the UMCA of Central Virginia.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1681</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f207b2c6-9c29-11ed-95ac-cb5466d91d6a]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3691196117.mp3?updated=1674594248" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What to do when you have had enough of the Corporate BS</title>
      <description>What to do when you have had enough of the Corporate BS: The role of heart-centred governing leadership on Not for Profit Boards with Lisa Colletta
Lisa Colletta is the Founder and Managing Director of The Governance Collective Pty Ltd. Australia’s leading corporate governance organization with a fresh approach.
After more than two decades as a corporate governance change leader in the private and public sectors, I recognized the need for a more holistic approach for small-medium businesses.
They need help to shape, drive and implement heart-centered and right-sized governance policies, frameworks, and processes – aligning their people and enabling them to reach business goals faster.
Governance can make or break an organization
Over the course of my career, I’ve seen how critically
important excellent governance is for effective decision
making that leads to successful outcomes.
My team and I advise, coach, mentor, guide and provide thought leadership to Chairs, Boards, Committees, Managing Directors, Executives, and governance professionals on how to enhance their personal effectiveness and mindsets, and implement heart-centered corporate governance at strategic and operational levels.
Extensive experience you can trust
I specialize in supporting large corporations, family-run businesses, not-for-profits, and
associations. I have recently endorsed organizations to identify and deliver appropriate levels of governance policy and practices to enable the application and reinstatement of government
funding.
I hold a master’s degree in Management and a Post Graduate Diploma of Applied Corporate
Governance from the Governance Institute. I am a graduate of the Governance Institute’s Effective Director Course and the Australian Institute of Company Directors, Company Directors Intensive
Course.
I am also a certified Neuro Linguistic Programming Coaching Practitioner, a Fellow of the
Governance Institute is a Member of the Australian Institute of Company Directors and the Australian Board of Neuro-Linguistic Programming.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2023 20:34:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>What to do when you have had enough of the Corporate BS</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The role of heart centred governing leadership on Not for Profit Boards with Lisa Colletta</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>What to do when you have had enough of the Corporate BS: The role of heart-centred governing leadership on Not for Profit Boards with Lisa Colletta
Lisa Colletta is the Founder and Managing Director of The Governance Collective Pty Ltd. Australia’s leading corporate governance organization with a fresh approach.
After more than two decades as a corporate governance change leader in the private and public sectors, I recognized the need for a more holistic approach for small-medium businesses.
They need help to shape, drive and implement heart-centered and right-sized governance policies, frameworks, and processes – aligning their people and enabling them to reach business goals faster.
Governance can make or break an organization
Over the course of my career, I’ve seen how critically
important excellent governance is for effective decision
making that leads to successful outcomes.
My team and I advise, coach, mentor, guide and provide thought leadership to Chairs, Boards, Committees, Managing Directors, Executives, and governance professionals on how to enhance their personal effectiveness and mindsets, and implement heart-centered corporate governance at strategic and operational levels.
Extensive experience you can trust
I specialize in supporting large corporations, family-run businesses, not-for-profits, and
associations. I have recently endorsed organizations to identify and deliver appropriate levels of governance policy and practices to enable the application and reinstatement of government
funding.
I hold a master’s degree in Management and a Post Graduate Diploma of Applied Corporate
Governance from the Governance Institute. I am a graduate of the Governance Institute’s Effective Director Course and the Australian Institute of Company Directors, Company Directors Intensive
Course.
I am also a certified Neuro Linguistic Programming Coaching Practitioner, a Fellow of the
Governance Institute is a Member of the Australian Institute of Company Directors and the Australian Board of Neuro-Linguistic Programming.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>What to do when you have had enough of the Corporate BS: The role of heart-centred governing leadership on Not for Profit Boards with Lisa Colletta</p><p>Lisa Colletta is the Founder and Managing Director of The Governance Collective Pty Ltd. Australia’s leading corporate governance organization with a fresh approach.</p><p>After more than two decades as a corporate governance change leader in the private and public sectors, I recognized the need for a more holistic approach for small-medium businesses.</p><p>They need help to shape, drive and implement heart-centered and right-sized governance policies, frameworks, and processes – aligning their people and enabling them to reach business goals faster.</p><h3><strong>Governance can make or break an organization</strong></h3><p>Over the course of my career, I’ve seen how critically</p><p>important excellent governance is for effective decision</p><p>making that leads to successful outcomes.</p><p>My team and I advise, coach, mentor, guide and provide thought leadership to Chairs, Boards, Committees, Managing Directors, Executives, and governance professionals on how to enhance their personal effectiveness and mindsets, and implement heart-centered corporate governance at strategic and operational levels.</p><h3><strong>Extensive experience you can trust</strong></h3><p>I specialize in supporting large corporations, family-run businesses, not-for-profits, and</p><p>associations. I have recently endorsed organizations to identify and deliver appropriate levels of governance policy and practices to enable the application and reinstatement of government</p><p>funding.</p><p>I hold a master’s degree in Management and a Post Graduate Diploma of Applied Corporate</p><p>Governance from the Governance Institute. I am a graduate of the Governance Institute’s Effective Director Course and the Australian Institute of Company Directors, Company Directors Intensive</p><p>Course.</p><p>I am also a certified Neuro Linguistic Programming Coaching Practitioner, a Fellow of the</p><p>Governance Institute is a Member of the Australian Institute of Company Directors and the Australian Board of Neuro-Linguistic Programming.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1843</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9525517419.mp3?updated=1674068447" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Building the Best Business in the World</title>
      <description>Building the Best Business in the World: Interview with Sturdy McKee
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      <pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2023 13:39:10 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Building the Best Business in the World</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Sturdy McKee</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Building the Best Business in the World: Interview with Sturdy McKee
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Building the Best Business in the World: Interview with Sturdy McKee</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1890</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[83215a6c-90ec-11ed-ad55-8fe87c8abf18]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3939246613.mp3?updated=1673358401" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Better Way to Understand Nonprofit Accounting</title>
      <description>The Better Way to Understand Nonprofit Accounting
Interview with Chris Hervochon, CPA
Chris Hervochon, CPA, CVA is the sole proprietor of his CPA firm. Chris Hervochon provides outsourced accounting and tax preparation for small businesses and individuals.
Before starting his own CPA firm, Chris spent ten years between forensic accounting and corporate accounting and finance. He has been featured in publications such as the Journal of Accountancy, Accounting Today, AMEX Open Forum, Parakeeto Podcast, The Agency Management Institute Podcast and the Digital Marketing Agency Builders Podcast for his industry knowledge and accounting expertise.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 05 Jan 2023 00:06:39 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Better Way to Understand Nonprofit Accounting</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Chris Hervochon</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Better Way to Understand Nonprofit Accounting
Interview with Chris Hervochon, CPA
Chris Hervochon, CPA, CVA is the sole proprietor of his CPA firm. Chris Hervochon provides outsourced accounting and tax preparation for small businesses and individuals.
Before starting his own CPA firm, Chris spent ten years between forensic accounting and corporate accounting and finance. He has been featured in publications such as the Journal of Accountancy, Accounting Today, AMEX Open Forum, Parakeeto Podcast, The Agency Management Institute Podcast and the Digital Marketing Agency Builders Podcast for his industry knowledge and accounting expertise.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>The Better Way to Understand Nonprofit Accounting</p><p>Interview with Chris Hervochon, CPA</p><p><strong>Chris Hervochon, CPA, CVA </strong>is the sole proprietor of his CPA firm. Chris Hervochon provides outsourced accounting and tax preparation for small businesses and individuals.</p><p>Before starting his own CPA firm, Chris spent ten years between forensic accounting and corporate accounting and finance. He has been featured in publications such as the <a href="https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/podcast/how-cpa-parents-cope-during-coronavirus-pandemic.html">Journal of Accountancy</a>, <a href="https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/conferences-for-the-next-generation-of-accountants">Accounting Today</a>, <a href="https://www.americanexpress.com/us/small-business/openforum/articles/4-predictors-to-look-for-when-forecasting-cash-flow/?linknav=us-openforum-search-article-link1">AMEX Open Forum</a>, <a href="https://parakeeto.com/blog/agency-accounting-101-with-chris-hervochon-episode-27/">Parakeeto Podcast</a>, <a href="https://agencymanagementinstitute.com/podcasts/chris-hervochon/">The Agency Management Institute Podcast</a> and the <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/becoming-a-more-profitable-agency-with-chris/id1437462561?i=1000559702064">Digital Marketing Agency Builders Podcast</a> for his industry knowledge and accounting expertise.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1705</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d5940740-8c8c-11ed-add8-0b0fca77c3af]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8764424201.mp3?updated=1672877503" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Smart Scaling for Sanity in Your Life</title>
      <description>Smart Scaling for Sanity in Your Life: 
Scaling, situational leadership, personal development with Jen do Plessis
Starting, maintaining, and growing a nonprofit is exactly like a business. You will need to build a world-class team to accomplish your vision, mission, and goals. More importantly, you can't do it alone, which will require Leadership.
Jen Du Plessis is affectionately known as The Impact Mentor and is the Leading Expert in Creating World Class Teams. She has been in the financial services industry for 4 decades and during her 35-year career was listed in the Top 200 of mortgage originators nationally and funded over $1 Billion in mortgage loans.
With numerous #1 Amazon best-selling books, host of two (2) top-ranking podcasts, and the Producer and Host of her TV Show – "Tell Me I Can’t".
She is a highly sought-after charismatic speaker, having shared stages with such icons as Tony Robbins, Les Brown, Darren Hardy, Jeff Hoffman, Sharon Lechter, and many more!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2022 20:17:12 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Smart Scaling for Sanity in Your Life</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Scaling, situational leadership, personal development with Jen do Plessis</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Smart Scaling for Sanity in Your Life: 
Scaling, situational leadership, personal development with Jen do Plessis
Starting, maintaining, and growing a nonprofit is exactly like a business. You will need to build a world-class team to accomplish your vision, mission, and goals. More importantly, you can't do it alone, which will require Leadership.
Jen Du Plessis is affectionately known as The Impact Mentor and is the Leading Expert in Creating World Class Teams. She has been in the financial services industry for 4 decades and during her 35-year career was listed in the Top 200 of mortgage originators nationally and funded over $1 Billion in mortgage loans.
With numerous #1 Amazon best-selling books, host of two (2) top-ranking podcasts, and the Producer and Host of her TV Show – "Tell Me I Can’t".
She is a highly sought-after charismatic speaker, having shared stages with such icons as Tony Robbins, Les Brown, Darren Hardy, Jeff Hoffman, Sharon Lechter, and many more!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Smart Scaling for Sanity in Your Life: </strong></h1><p>Scaling, situational leadership, personal development with Jen do Plessis</p><p>Starting, maintaining, and growing a nonprofit is exactly like a business. You will need to build a world-class team to accomplish your vision, mission, and goals. More importantly, you can't do it alone, which will require Leadership.</p><p><strong>Jen Du Plessis</strong> is affectionately known as The Impact Mentor and is the Leading Expert in Creating World Class Teams. She has been in the financial services industry for 4 decades and during her 35-year career was listed in the Top 200 of mortgage originators nationally and funded over $1 Billion in mortgage loans.</p><p>With numerous #1 Amazon best-selling books, host of two (2) top-ranking podcasts, and the Producer and Host of her TV Show – "Tell Me I Can’t".</p><p>She is a highly sought-after charismatic speaker, having shared stages with such icons as Tony Robbins, Les Brown, Darren Hardy, Jeff Hoffman, Sharon Lechter, and many more!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2016</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[7559ece2-8623-11ed-bf13-af77671a2afa]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9637758286.mp3?updated=1672172537" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Hugh Ballou's Christmas Music Selections from His Conducting Career</title>
      <description>Hugh Ballou's Christmas Music Selections from His Conducting Career
Hugh Ballou spent 40+ years as a musical conductor and here are some of his recordings from that career.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2022 16:02:18 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Hugh Ballou's Christmas Music Selections from His Conducting Career</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh Ballou Conducts Holiday Music</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Hugh Ballou's Christmas Music Selections from His Conducting Career
Hugh Ballou spent 40+ years as a musical conductor and here are some of his recordings from that career.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Hugh Ballou's Christmas Music Selections from His Conducting Career</p><p>Hugh Ballou spent 40+ years as a musical conductor and here are some of his recordings from that career.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2339</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[bbf1ddee-807f-11ed-8536-bb4580e0e520]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4813421697.mp3?updated=1671552462" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What Success Looks Like For Your Leadership Style</title>
      <description>What Success Looks Like For Your Leadership Style: Interview with Leadership Expert Robert Jordan
Robert Jordan is the CEO of InterimExecs, which matches top executives with companies around the world. Based on research with thousands of leaders and companies, he and Olivia Wagner wrote "Right Leader Right Time: Discover Your Leadership Style for a Winning Career and Company," and have launched the FABS Leadership Assessment, a free assessment at RightLeader.com designed to help leaders and organizations perform better. Jordan also authored "How They Did It: Billion Dollar Insights from the Heart of America," and helped publish "Start With No," Jim Camp’s bestseller on negotiation.
Robert's work with many nonprofit organizations, in addition to public and private companies, prompted the discovery of four distinct styles of leadership among exceptional executives, and directly led to writing "Right Leader Right Time: Discover Your Leadership Style for a Winning Career and Company" and developing the FABS Leadership Assessment. Coming to understand and embrace your highest and best use in leadership is a recipe for enhanced success in career, as well as better collaboration with teammates and colleagues.
For more information, go to https://interimexecs.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2022 20:00:17 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>What Success Looks Like For Your Leadership Style</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Leadership Expert Robert Jordan</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>What Success Looks Like For Your Leadership Style: Interview with Leadership Expert Robert Jordan
Robert Jordan is the CEO of InterimExecs, which matches top executives with companies around the world. Based on research with thousands of leaders and companies, he and Olivia Wagner wrote "Right Leader Right Time: Discover Your Leadership Style for a Winning Career and Company," and have launched the FABS Leadership Assessment, a free assessment at RightLeader.com designed to help leaders and organizations perform better. Jordan also authored "How They Did It: Billion Dollar Insights from the Heart of America," and helped publish "Start With No," Jim Camp’s bestseller on negotiation.
Robert's work with many nonprofit organizations, in addition to public and private companies, prompted the discovery of four distinct styles of leadership among exceptional executives, and directly led to writing "Right Leader Right Time: Discover Your Leadership Style for a Winning Career and Company" and developing the FABS Leadership Assessment. Coming to understand and embrace your highest and best use in leadership is a recipe for enhanced success in career, as well as better collaboration with teammates and colleagues.
For more information, go to https://interimexecs.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>What Success Looks Like For Your Leadership Style: Interview with Leadership Expert Robert Jordan</strong></h1><p><strong>Robert Jordan</strong> is the CEO of InterimExecs, which matches top executives with companies around the world. Based on research with thousands of leaders and companies, he and Olivia Wagner wrote "Right Leader Right Time: Discover Your Leadership Style for a Winning Career and Company," and have launched the FABS Leadership Assessment, a free assessment at RightLeader.com designed to help leaders and organizations perform better. Jordan also authored "How They Did It: Billion Dollar Insights from the Heart of America," and helped publish "Start With No," Jim Camp’s bestseller on negotiation.</p><p>Robert's work with many nonprofit organizations, in addition to public and private companies, prompted the discovery of four distinct styles of leadership among exceptional executives, and directly led to writing "Right Leader Right Time: Discover Your Leadership Style for a Winning Career and Company" and developing the FABS Leadership Assessment. Coming to understand and embrace your highest and best use in leadership is a recipe for enhanced success in career, as well as better collaboration with teammates and colleagues.</p><p>For more information, go to <a href="https://interimexecs.com/"><strong>https://interimexecs.com/</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1965</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[14284070-7b21-11ed-834e-9b41e56a5408]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2426471670.mp3?updated=1670962052" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Stop The Nonprofit Board Blame Game</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/stop-the-nonprofit-board-blame-game/</link>
      <description>Stop The Nonprofit Board Blame Game: Board Engagement with Hardy Smith
Nonprofits are constantly expressing frustration about board member engagement. My research shows there are many board members who are equally frustrated about their board experience. To get beyond the frustration, organizations must recognize why board members don't perform as expected and correct practices that contribute to broken relationships with their board members.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2022 20:33:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Stop The Nonprofit Board Blame Game</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Board Engagement with Hardy Smith</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Stop The Nonprofit Board Blame Game: Board Engagement with Hardy Smith
Nonprofits are constantly expressing frustration about board member engagement. My research shows there are many board members who are equally frustrated about their board experience. To get beyond the frustration, organizations must recognize why board members don't perform as expected and correct practices that contribute to broken relationships with their board members.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Stop The Nonprofit Board Blame Game: Board Engagement with Hardy Smith</strong></h1><p>Nonprofits are constantly expressing frustration about board member engagement. My research shows there are many board members who are equally frustrated about their board experience. To get beyond the frustration, organizations must recognize why board members don't perform as expected and correct practices that contribute to broken relationships with their board members.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2258</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5239880667.mp3?updated=1642538316" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Transformational Philanthropy from the Donor’s Perspective</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/transformational-philanthropy-from-the-donors-perspective/</link>
      <description>Transformational Philanthropy from the Donor’s Perspective: Interview with Ron Zeeb, Founder of The Heritage Institute
Transformational Philanthropy from the Donor’s Perspective:
“When the non-profits learn to focus on my need to give rather than their need to get, they will get a lot more from me.”
As the recently released Bank of America Study of Philanthropy (previously known as the US Trust Study
of High Net Worth Philanthropy) found, the number 1 reason affluent donors choose a cause or organization to support is the donor’s values (72%). Only 48% gave due to the perceived need of the organization or issue, and only 13% gave due to a compelling pitch (in person, virtually, or via collateral). Therefore, the key to generating transformational gifts is to focus on the donor’s values and desired outcomes and then provide opportunities for them to fulfill those desired outcomes.
Consequently, your focus needs to be on the desired outcomes of your donor (their need to give), rather than the organization’s needs (your need to get).
Rodney C. Zeeb, JD, HDP™, Founder and CEO of The Heritage Institute. Rod has over three decades of experience in estate planning, charitable planning, and heritage design and is recognized internationally for his contributions to the field. Among the major national conferences and events Rod has spoken to are Pershing’s INSITE Conference, MDRT, NAIFA, Kingdom Advisors, Securities Industries and Financial Markets Associations (SIFMA ), NAPFA, United Way of America National de Tocqueville Conference, FPA (national and regional groups), International Association of Advisors in Philanthropy, National Association of Charitable Gift Planners, and many others. Rod typically receives the highest speaker evaluations. Rod has been quoted in The Wall Street Journal, The Christian Science Monitor, Dow Jones News, Macleans Magazine (including international editions), Wealth Collection Magazine, Financial Advisor Magazine, Wealth Manager Magazine, Inside Information, and many other print and online publications.
Rod has written numerous articles and white papers. He is also the author of Beating the Midas Curse (now in its 3rd Edition) and Family Stewardship, and co-author of the novel What Matters.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:41:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Transformational Philanthropy from the Donor’s Perspective</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Ron Zeeb, Founder of The Heritage Institute</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Transformational Philanthropy from the Donor’s Perspective: Interview with Ron Zeeb, Founder of The Heritage Institute
Transformational Philanthropy from the Donor’s Perspective:
“When the non-profits learn to focus on my need to give rather than their need to get, they will get a lot more from me.”
As the recently released Bank of America Study of Philanthropy (previously known as the US Trust Study
of High Net Worth Philanthropy) found, the number 1 reason affluent donors choose a cause or organization to support is the donor’s values (72%). Only 48% gave due to the perceived need of the organization or issue, and only 13% gave due to a compelling pitch (in person, virtually, or via collateral). Therefore, the key to generating transformational gifts is to focus on the donor’s values and desired outcomes and then provide opportunities for them to fulfill those desired outcomes.
Consequently, your focus needs to be on the desired outcomes of your donor (their need to give), rather than the organization’s needs (your need to get).
Rodney C. Zeeb, JD, HDP™, Founder and CEO of The Heritage Institute. Rod has over three decades of experience in estate planning, charitable planning, and heritage design and is recognized internationally for his contributions to the field. Among the major national conferences and events Rod has spoken to are Pershing’s INSITE Conference, MDRT, NAIFA, Kingdom Advisors, Securities Industries and Financial Markets Associations (SIFMA ), NAPFA, United Way of America National de Tocqueville Conference, FPA (national and regional groups), International Association of Advisors in Philanthropy, National Association of Charitable Gift Planners, and many others. Rod typically receives the highest speaker evaluations. Rod has been quoted in The Wall Street Journal, The Christian Science Monitor, Dow Jones News, Macleans Magazine (including international editions), Wealth Collection Magazine, Financial Advisor Magazine, Wealth Manager Magazine, Inside Information, and many other print and online publications.
Rod has written numerous articles and white papers. He is also the author of Beating the Midas Curse (now in its 3rd Edition) and Family Stewardship, and co-author of the novel What Matters.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Transformational Philanthropy from the Donor’s Perspective: Interview with Ron Zeeb, Founder of The Heritage Institute</h1><h3>Transformational Philanthropy from the Donor’s Perspective:</h3><h3>“When the non-profits learn to focus on my need to give rather than their need to get, they will get a lot more from me.”</h3><p>As the recently released Bank of America Study of Philanthropy (previously known as the US Trust Study</p><p>of High Net Worth Philanthropy) found, the number 1 reason affluent donors choose a cause or organization to support is the donor’s values (72%). Only 48% gave due to the perceived need of the organization or issue, and only 13% gave due to a compelling pitch (in person, virtually, or via collateral). Therefore, the key to generating transformational gifts is to focus on the donor’s values and desired outcomes and then provide opportunities for them to fulfill those desired outcomes.</p><p>Consequently, your focus needs to be on the desired outcomes of your donor (their need to give), rather than the organization’s needs (your need to get).</p><p>Rodney C. Zeeb, JD, HDP™, Founder and CEO of The Heritage Institute. Rod has over three decades of experience in estate planning, charitable planning, and heritage design and is recognized internationally for his contributions to the field. Among the major national conferences and events Rod has spoken to are Pershing’s INSITE Conference, MDRT, NAIFA, Kingdom Advisors, Securities Industries and Financial Markets Associations (SIFMA ), NAPFA, United Way of America National de Tocqueville Conference, FPA (national and regional groups), International Association of Advisors in Philanthropy, National Association of Charitable Gift Planners, and many others. Rod typically receives the highest speaker evaluations. Rod has been quoted in The Wall Street Journal, The Christian Science Monitor, Dow Jones News, Macleans Magazine (including international editions), Wealth Collection Magazine, Financial Advisor Magazine, Wealth Manager Magazine, Inside Information, and many other print and online publications.</p><p>Rod has written numerous articles and white papers. He is also the author of Beating the Midas Curse (now in its 3rd Edition) and Family Stewardship, and co-author of the novel What Matters.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1653</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4167997345.mp3?updated=1669830509" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Avoiding Strategic Planning Pitfalls</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-avoiding-strategic-planning-pitfalls/</link>
      <description>Avoiding Strategic Planning Pitfalls:
Interview with Planning Expert Carol Hamilton
Carol Hamilton, the host of the Mission: Impact podcast, is an organization effectiveness consultant who helps nonprofits become more strategic and innovative for greater mission impact. She facilitates strategic planning, helps organizations map their impact, and supports organizations as they prepare for executive transitions.
A strategic thinker, Carol works with teams and organizations to envision and frame their future strategic direction. Practical in her approach, she helps organizations think through who is key to creating their future, how to gather insights from these stakeholders, consider the big picture, imagine new possibilities, come to agreement on their future goals, and create an initial action plan to get started. She takes a human-centered and appreciative approach in her work. She is also part of a consultant collective focused on diversity, equity, and inclusion, All In Consulting.
Carol has more than 25 years of experience in the nonprofit and association sectors working with organizations with a range of missions. Carol trains frequently on leadership, strategy, organizational culture, and design as well as innovation topics. She graduated from Swarthmore College and has her Masters in Organization Development.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2022 20:19:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Avoiding Strategic Planning Pitfalls</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Planning Expert Carol Hamilton</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Avoiding Strategic Planning Pitfalls:
Interview with Planning Expert Carol Hamilton
Carol Hamilton, the host of the Mission: Impact podcast, is an organization effectiveness consultant who helps nonprofits become more strategic and innovative for greater mission impact. She facilitates strategic planning, helps organizations map their impact, and supports organizations as they prepare for executive transitions.
A strategic thinker, Carol works with teams and organizations to envision and frame their future strategic direction. Practical in her approach, she helps organizations think through who is key to creating their future, how to gather insights from these stakeholders, consider the big picture, imagine new possibilities, come to agreement on their future goals, and create an initial action plan to get started. She takes a human-centered and appreciative approach in her work. She is also part of a consultant collective focused on diversity, equity, and inclusion, All In Consulting.
Carol has more than 25 years of experience in the nonprofit and association sectors working with organizations with a range of missions. Carol trains frequently on leadership, strategy, organizational culture, and design as well as innovation topics. She graduated from Swarthmore College and has her Masters in Organization Development.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Avoiding Strategic Planning Pitfalls:</h1><h1>Interview with Planning Expert Carol Hamilton</h1><p>Carol Hamilton, the host of the Mission: Impact podcast, is an organization effectiveness consultant who helps nonprofits become more strategic and innovative for greater mission impact. She facilitates strategic planning, helps organizations map their impact, and supports organizations as they prepare for executive transitions.</p><p>A strategic thinker, Carol works with teams and organizations to envision and frame their future strategic direction. Practical in her approach, she helps organizations think through who is key to creating their future, how to gather insights from these stakeholders, consider the big picture, imagine new possibilities, come to agreement on their future goals, and create an initial action plan to get started. She takes a human-centered and appreciative approach in her work. She is also part of a consultant collective focused on diversity, equity, and inclusion, All In Consulting.</p><p>Carol has more than 25 years of experience in the nonprofit and association sectors working with organizations with a range of missions. Carol trains frequently on leadership, strategy, organizational culture, and design as well as innovation topics. She graduated from Swarthmore College and has her Masters in Organization Development.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1958</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9975755147.mp3?updated=1669148908" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leadership, Integrity &amp; Enrolling Others In Your Vision</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/leadership-integrity-enrolling-others-in-your-vision/</link>
      <description>Leadership, Integrity &amp; Enrolling Others In Your Vision: 
Food Pantry Lines to Volunteer to CEO &amp; Vice Chairman of the Board with Joel Clelland

Joel Clelland is a serial entrepreneur and influencer who has had a number of successful businesses: special events, entertainment, and insurance.
Most recently, Joel Clelland served as Centric’s Chief Executive Officer. Centric is a dual token cryptocurrency system working to stabilize prices and provide a global borderless medium of exchange that only goes up in purchasing power. While CEO, Joel, and his team added a number of new exchanges and partnerships, as well as three cryptocurrency payment gateways. Centric users can pay with Centric tokens (spec. Centric Swap "CNS") using the payment gateways and the merchants can get paid out in cryptocurrency or whatever their local currency happens to be. Learn more about the Centric Payment Network and connect with the team by visiting https://www.centric.com/cenpay/.
Joel also serves as the Vice Chairman of the Board for 501(c)(3) nonprofit Project Boon, a community organization based in Southern California that assists underserved children, individuals, and families with food security and connections to needed services. "As a former Board Chair, I have an affinity for the organization and where it is headed. Our catchphrases are, "empowering people next door and a world away" and "give without reservation." Prior to the pandemic, Project Boon was involved in service in both the U.S. and Mexico. Hopefully, we can get back down to Tuxpan, Jalisco in Mexico soon."
Joel's message:
Leaders are always learning.

Listen more than you speak. Ask questions that encourage beneficial discourse. Create safety for all stakeholders. Find the areas that need improvement together. Then, make those better.

As the key person in your organization, have a solid vision in that you can enroll all stakeholders. Develop and deploy a call to action that engages your team on specific tasks to execute your vision. Review this weekly, monthly, and quarterly. Is your vision being realized? A group of people that is unclear on its vision cannot win (cannot execute the leader's vision).

Remain grateful and practice gratitude. Things happen for us, not to us. Instead of asking, "Why," ask, "What does this mean for me? What purpose does this serve for our team and me?" In what ways will our actions benefit the community (make an impact)? 

Be humble and love your team and community.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2022 19:55:20 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leadership, Integrity &amp; Enrolling Others In Your Vision</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Food Pantry Lines to Volunteer to CEO &amp; Vice Chairman of the Board with Joel Clelland</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leadership, Integrity &amp; Enrolling Others In Your Vision: 
Food Pantry Lines to Volunteer to CEO &amp; Vice Chairman of the Board with Joel Clelland

Joel Clelland is a serial entrepreneur and influencer who has had a number of successful businesses: special events, entertainment, and insurance.
Most recently, Joel Clelland served as Centric’s Chief Executive Officer. Centric is a dual token cryptocurrency system working to stabilize prices and provide a global borderless medium of exchange that only goes up in purchasing power. While CEO, Joel, and his team added a number of new exchanges and partnerships, as well as three cryptocurrency payment gateways. Centric users can pay with Centric tokens (spec. Centric Swap "CNS") using the payment gateways and the merchants can get paid out in cryptocurrency or whatever their local currency happens to be. Learn more about the Centric Payment Network and connect with the team by visiting https://www.centric.com/cenpay/.
Joel also serves as the Vice Chairman of the Board for 501(c)(3) nonprofit Project Boon, a community organization based in Southern California that assists underserved children, individuals, and families with food security and connections to needed services. "As a former Board Chair, I have an affinity for the organization and where it is headed. Our catchphrases are, "empowering people next door and a world away" and "give without reservation." Prior to the pandemic, Project Boon was involved in service in both the U.S. and Mexico. Hopefully, we can get back down to Tuxpan, Jalisco in Mexico soon."
Joel's message:
Leaders are always learning.

Listen more than you speak. Ask questions that encourage beneficial discourse. Create safety for all stakeholders. Find the areas that need improvement together. Then, make those better.

As the key person in your organization, have a solid vision in that you can enroll all stakeholders. Develop and deploy a call to action that engages your team on specific tasks to execute your vision. Review this weekly, monthly, and quarterly. Is your vision being realized? A group of people that is unclear on its vision cannot win (cannot execute the leader's vision).

Remain grateful and practice gratitude. Things happen for us, not to us. Instead of asking, "Why," ask, "What does this mean for me? What purpose does this serve for our team and me?" In what ways will our actions benefit the community (make an impact)? 

Be humble and love your team and community.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Leadership, Integrity &amp; Enrolling Others In Your Vision: </strong></h1><h1><strong>Food Pantry Lines to Volunteer to CEO &amp; Vice Chairman of the Board with Joel Clelland</strong></h1><p><br></p><p><strong>Joel Clelland</strong> is a serial entrepreneur and influencer who has had a number of successful businesses: special events, entertainment, and insurance.</p><p>Most recently, Joel Clelland served as Centric’s Chief Executive Officer. Centric is a dual token cryptocurrency system working to stabilize prices and provide a global borderless medium of exchange that only goes up in purchasing power. While CEO, Joel, and his team added a number of new exchanges and partnerships, as well as three cryptocurrency payment gateways. Centric users can pay with Centric tokens (spec. Centric Swap "CNS") using the payment gateways and the merchants can get paid out in cryptocurrency or whatever their local currency happens to be. Learn more about the Centric Payment Network and connect with the team by visiting https://www.centric.com/cenpay/.</p><p>Joel also serves as the Vice Chairman of the Board for 501(c)(3) nonprofit Project Boon, a community organization based in Southern California that assists underserved children, individuals, and families with food security and connections to needed services. "As a former Board Chair, I have an affinity for the organization and where it is headed. Our catchphrases are, "empowering people next door and a world away" and "give without reservation." Prior to the pandemic, Project Boon was involved in service in both the U.S. and Mexico. Hopefully, we can get back down to Tuxpan, Jalisco in Mexico soon."</p><p>Joel's message:</p><p>Leaders are always learning.</p><p><br></p><p>Listen more than you speak. Ask questions that encourage beneficial discourse. Create safety for all stakeholders. Find the areas that need improvement together. Then, make those better.</p><p><br></p><p>As the key person in your organization, have a solid vision in that you can enroll all stakeholders. Develop and deploy a call to action that engages your team on specific tasks to execute your vision. Review this weekly, monthly, and quarterly. Is your vision being realized? A group of people that is unclear on its vision cannot win (cannot execute the leader's vision).</p><p><br></p><p>Remain grateful and practice gratitude. Things happen for us, not to us. Instead of asking, "Why," ask, "What does this mean for me? What purpose does this serve for our team and me?" In what ways will our actions benefit the community (make an impact)? </p><p><br></p><p>Be humble and love your team and community.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1650</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[4ae33a52-6456-11ed-9579-4be27a8b1ef6]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6352807515.mp3?updated=1668456030" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Publishing Your Expertise and Inspiring Story to Create Abundance and Hope:</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/publishing-your-expertise-and-inspiring-story-to-create-abundance-and-hope/</link>
      <description>Publishing Your Expertise and Inspiring Story to Create Abundance and Hope:
 Interview with Publisher, Ken Rochon

Ken Rochon, who also goes by Dr. Smiley is a renaissance man and serial entrepreneur.
He has written 38 books, published over 300, and is an expert in creating impact with book tours and social proof campaigns.
He has visitors from over 100 countries and is a proud Daddy to his 9-year-old son who has Authored 8 books.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2022 20:01:31 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Publishing Your Expertise and Inspiring Story to Create Abundance and Hope:</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle> Interview with Publisher, Ken Rochon</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Publishing Your Expertise and Inspiring Story to Create Abundance and Hope:
 Interview with Publisher, Ken Rochon

Ken Rochon, who also goes by Dr. Smiley is a renaissance man and serial entrepreneur.
He has written 38 books, published over 300, and is an expert in creating impact with book tours and social proof campaigns.
He has visitors from over 100 countries and is a proud Daddy to his 9-year-old son who has Authored 8 books.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Publishing Your Expertise and Inspiring Story to Create Abundance and Hope:</strong></p><p><strong> Interview with Publisher, Ken Rochon</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>Ken Rochon</strong>, who also goes by Dr. Smiley is a renaissance man and serial entrepreneur.</p><p>He has written 38 books, published over 300, and is an expert in creating impact with book tours and social proof campaigns.</p><p>He has visitors from over 100 countries and is a proud Daddy to his 9-year-old son who has Authored 8 books.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1650</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[82903e88-5fa0-11ed-bfba-d7b6ed770d0c]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7942315304.mp3?updated=1667938207" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Expanding The Reach of Your Message</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/expanding-the-reach-of-your-message/</link>
      <description>Expanding The Reach of Your Message - Creative Cost Effective Ways to Spread Awareness &amp; Attract Support: Interview with Jessica Koch
If your cause or organization is the most amazing thing ever, but no one knows about you.... this can be a problem... or if you are in the top 100 causes and your message and how you share it has stopped feeling relevant or kept up with the times.. then you can have an issue. How do you spread the word about what you do for your community, the country, or the world? What vehicles to use, and what is the cost or knowledge needed?
Jessica Koch has been a National Sales Professional for more than 25 years. She has worked with Fortune 1000 clients like Disney and Verizon. She has also worked with National Power Utilities, Hospitals, governments, and Universities/Colleges. She successfully trained and managed multiple sales teams nationally, who were consistently the top sales producers. She speaks nationally and has been featured on many podcasts and video interviews. She will soon be featured in a published book series Titled: Profiles in Success: Inspiration from Executive Leaders
in the Washington D.C. Area.
As the daughter of a Retired Navy Service member, she was given the opportunity to reside both domestically and internationally including Germany, France, Bavaria, and Prague. She currently resides in Solomon’s Island Maryland. She and her husband have raised their 7 kids in the area and they are proud to be parents of an Active Duty Member of the United States Army!
Jessica’s goal is to guide business owners and sales professionals to achieve a balanced sales and marketing strategy. She uses proven classic sales techniques combined with modern technology, including her vast knowledge of LinkedIn. She has been an active user of LinkedIn since 2008 and has won friends, influenced people, and successfully turned Connections into Clients! This approach allows for a drastic increase in bottom-line results as well as, time for community and family life.
More about Jessica and her work at https://jessicaLkoch.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2022 19:28:38 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Expanding The Reach of Your Message</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Creative Cost Effective Ways to Spread Awareness &amp; Attract Support: Interview with Jessica Koch</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Expanding The Reach of Your Message - Creative Cost Effective Ways to Spread Awareness &amp; Attract Support: Interview with Jessica Koch
If your cause or organization is the most amazing thing ever, but no one knows about you.... this can be a problem... or if you are in the top 100 causes and your message and how you share it has stopped feeling relevant or kept up with the times.. then you can have an issue. How do you spread the word about what you do for your community, the country, or the world? What vehicles to use, and what is the cost or knowledge needed?
Jessica Koch has been a National Sales Professional for more than 25 years. She has worked with Fortune 1000 clients like Disney and Verizon. She has also worked with National Power Utilities, Hospitals, governments, and Universities/Colleges. She successfully trained and managed multiple sales teams nationally, who were consistently the top sales producers. She speaks nationally and has been featured on many podcasts and video interviews. She will soon be featured in a published book series Titled: Profiles in Success: Inspiration from Executive Leaders
in the Washington D.C. Area.
As the daughter of a Retired Navy Service member, she was given the opportunity to reside both domestically and internationally including Germany, France, Bavaria, and Prague. She currently resides in Solomon’s Island Maryland. She and her husband have raised their 7 kids in the area and they are proud to be parents of an Active Duty Member of the United States Army!
Jessica’s goal is to guide business owners and sales professionals to achieve a balanced sales and marketing strategy. She uses proven classic sales techniques combined with modern technology, including her vast knowledge of LinkedIn. She has been an active user of LinkedIn since 2008 and has won friends, influenced people, and successfully turned Connections into Clients! This approach allows for a drastic increase in bottom-line results as well as, time for community and family life.
More about Jessica and her work at https://jessicaLkoch.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Expanding The Reach of Your Message - Creative Cost Effective Ways to Spread Awareness &amp; Attract Support: Interview with Jessica Koch</strong></h1><p>If your cause or organization is the most amazing thing ever, but no one knows about you.... this can be a problem... or if you are in the top 100 causes and your message and how you share it has stopped feeling relevant or kept up with the times.. then you can have an issue. How do you spread the word about what you do for your community, the country, or the world? What vehicles to use, and what is the cost or knowledge needed?</p><p><strong>Jessica Koch</strong> has been a National Sales Professional for more than 25 years. She has worked with Fortune 1000 clients like Disney and Verizon. She has also worked with National Power Utilities, Hospitals, governments, and Universities/Colleges. She successfully trained and managed multiple sales teams nationally, who were consistently the top sales producers. She speaks nationally and has been featured on many podcasts and video interviews. She will soon be featured in a published book series Titled: Profiles in Success: Inspiration from Executive Leaders</p><p>in the Washington D.C. Area.</p><p>As the daughter of a Retired Navy Service member, she was given the opportunity to reside both domestically and internationally including Germany, France, Bavaria, and Prague. She currently resides in Solomon’s Island Maryland. She and her husband have raised their 7 kids in the area and they are proud to be parents of an Active Duty Member of the United States Army!</p><p>Jessica’s goal is to guide business owners and sales professionals to achieve a balanced sales and marketing strategy. She uses proven classic sales techniques combined with modern technology, including her vast knowledge of LinkedIn. She has been an active user of LinkedIn since 2008 and has won friends, influenced people, and successfully turned Connections into Clients! This approach allows for a drastic increase in bottom-line results as well as, time for community and family life.</p><p>More about Jessica and her work at <a href="https://jessicalkoch.com/"><strong>https://jessicaLkoch.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1669</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1883074878.mp3?updated=1667331221" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to Find More Best Fit Grant Funders for Your Nonprofit</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-finding-grant-funders/</link>
      <description>How to Find More Best Fit Grant Funders for Your Nonprofit: Interview with Gauri Manglik
Finding the Best Fit Grant Funders: In the age of big data, it’s more important than ever to leverage any quantitative insight you can around the funders you’re applying for funding from. How can you do so and what are the best nonprofits doing differently than others? I can break down what unique trends are crucial to look out for.
In the age of big data, it’s more important than ever to leverage any quantitative insight you can around the funders you’re applying for funding from. How can you do so and what are the best nonprofits doing differently than others? I can break down what unique trends are crucial to look out for.
Gauri Manglik has dedicated her career to building intuitive and delightful user experiences. Seeing the opportunity to force multiply the nonprofit sector's ability to create impact through software led her to her
work at Instrumentl. As CEO and a co-founder, she has led Instrumentl to serve over 2,000 nonprofits today, making it a favorite tool among grant seekers for bringing grant prospecting, tracking, and management to one place.
Before Instrumentl, Gauri was CEO and co-founder of Fondu, an online community for sharing bite-sized restaurant reviews. After Fondu was acquired by Airbnb, Gauri led their mobile and special projects teams.
For more information go to https://www.instrumentl.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2022 19:29:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How to Find More Best Fit Grant Funders for Your Nonprofit</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Gauri Manglik</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How to Find More Best Fit Grant Funders for Your Nonprofit: Interview with Gauri Manglik
Finding the Best Fit Grant Funders: In the age of big data, it’s more important than ever to leverage any quantitative insight you can around the funders you’re applying for funding from. How can you do so and what are the best nonprofits doing differently than others? I can break down what unique trends are crucial to look out for.
In the age of big data, it’s more important than ever to leverage any quantitative insight you can around the funders you’re applying for funding from. How can you do so and what are the best nonprofits doing differently than others? I can break down what unique trends are crucial to look out for.
Gauri Manglik has dedicated her career to building intuitive and delightful user experiences. Seeing the opportunity to force multiply the nonprofit sector's ability to create impact through software led her to her
work at Instrumentl. As CEO and a co-founder, she has led Instrumentl to serve over 2,000 nonprofits today, making it a favorite tool among grant seekers for bringing grant prospecting, tracking, and management to one place.
Before Instrumentl, Gauri was CEO and co-founder of Fondu, an online community for sharing bite-sized restaurant reviews. After Fondu was acquired by Airbnb, Gauri led their mobile and special projects teams.
For more information go to https://www.instrumentl.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>How to Find More Best Fit Grant Funders for Your Nonprofit: Interview with Gauri Manglik</strong></h1><p>Finding the Best Fit Grant Funders: In the age of big data, it’s more important than ever to leverage any quantitative insight you can around the funders you’re applying for funding from. How can you do so and what are the best nonprofits doing differently than others? I can break down what unique trends are crucial to look out for.</p><p>In the age of big data, it’s more important than ever to leverage any quantitative insight you can around the funders you’re applying for funding from. How can you do so and what are the best nonprofits doing differently than others? I can break down what unique trends are crucial to look out for.</p><p><strong>Gauri Manglik</strong> has dedicated her career to building intuitive and delightful user experiences. Seeing the opportunity to force multiply the nonprofit sector's ability to create impact through software led her to her</p><p>work at Instrumentl. As CEO and a co-founder, she has led Instrumentl to serve over 2,000 nonprofits today, making it a favorite tool among grant seekers for bringing grant prospecting, tracking, and management to one place.</p><p>Before Instrumentl, Gauri was CEO and co-founder of Fondu, an online community for sharing bite-sized restaurant reviews. After Fondu was acquired by Airbnb, Gauri led their mobile and special projects teams.</p><p>For more information go to <a href="https://www.instrumentl.com/"><strong>https://www.instrumentl.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1930</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[8861cf80-549b-11ed-9a65-47063ff167b1]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9594174141.mp3?updated=1666726630" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Fostering and Supporting Emerging Leaders</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-supporting-emerging-leaders/</link>
      <description>Fostering and Supporting Emerging Leaders: 
Interview with Dorien Porter

A Senior at Liberty studying Politics from Georgia. Dorien Porter has served our community in many different facets. First at Liberty within its SGA and now as the Executive President of our area’s Rotaract Club. Dorien is the outcome of Generational service above self-believers through military service fighting for the United States. 
Dorien Brings countless invaluable leadership experiences and religion to the political table with grace and truth, to lay the foundation for the upcoming generations. As FDR once said, we cannot always build the future for our youth but we can make our youth for the future, and Dorien is heading the four fronts here in our community to bring the future young professionals together here in the Lynchburg Area
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2022 22:26:08 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Fostering and Supporting Emerging Leaders</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dorien Porter</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Fostering and Supporting Emerging Leaders: 
Interview with Dorien Porter

A Senior at Liberty studying Politics from Georgia. Dorien Porter has served our community in many different facets. First at Liberty within its SGA and now as the Executive President of our area’s Rotaract Club. Dorien is the outcome of Generational service above self-believers through military service fighting for the United States. 
Dorien Brings countless invaluable leadership experiences and religion to the political table with grace and truth, to lay the foundation for the upcoming generations. As FDR once said, we cannot always build the future for our youth but we can make our youth for the future, and Dorien is heading the four fronts here in our community to bring the future young professionals together here in the Lynchburg Area
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Fostering and Supporting Emerging Leaders: </strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Dorien Porter</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>A Senior at Liberty studying Politics from Georgia. <strong>Dorien Porter</strong> has served our community in many different facets. First at Liberty within its SGA and now as the Executive President of our area’s Rotaract Club. Dorien is the outcome of Generational service above self-believers through military service fighting for the United States. </p><p>Dorien Brings countless invaluable leadership experiences and religion to the political table with grace and truth, to lay the foundation for the upcoming generations. As FDR once said, we cannot always build the future for our youth but we can make our youth for the future, and Dorien is heading the four fronts here in our community to bring the future young professionals together here in the Lynchburg Area</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1957</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[06efc32e-4f34-11ed-8e37-c35727ff119d]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1709807584.mp3?updated=1666132339" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Having the Confidence to Fulfil the Numbers Part of a Board Member's Fiduciary Responsibilities</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-board-financial-literacy/</link>
      <description>Having the Confidence to Fulfil the Numbers Part of a Board Member's Fiduciary Responsibilities
Nonprofit board members know their organization must be financially healthy to do the most good, but some people find financial statements hard to decipher. However, board members of nonprofits need to know basic accounting in order to fulfill their fiduciary responsibilities. Holding management accountable is a crucial responsibility of the board. Knowing which KPIs and trends to track can help keep the nonprofit on track. Nonprofit board members need to invest the time to be able to ask probing questions of management and the auditor to fulfill their responsibilities.
Melisa Galasso is the founder and CEO of Galasso Learning Solutions LLC. A CPA with nearly 20 years of experience in accounting, Melisa designs and facilitates courses in advanced technical accounting and auditing topics, including not-for-profit and governmental accounting. Melisa is a Certified Speaking Professional in Talent Development (CPTD) and has earned the Association for Talent Development Master Trainer™ designation. Her passion for instructional design and adult learning techniques is one of the differentiators that set her apart from other CPE providers. Within the industry, Melisa serves on the FASB’s Not-for-Profit Advisory Committee (NAC), and AICPA Council, and is the Chair of Girls on the Run Greater Charlotte's Advisory Board. She previously served on the AICPA’s Technical Issues Committee (TIC), and the VSCPA’s Board of Directors, and is a past Chair of the NCACPA’s A&amp;A committee. Melisa is the author of Money Matters for Nonprofits: How Board Members Can Harness the Power of Financial Statements by Understanding Basic Accounting.
﻿For more information, go to https://galassolearningsolutions.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2022 20:17:48 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Having the Confidence to Fulfil the Numbers Part of a Board Member's Fiduciary Responsibilities</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Financial Literacy for Board Members</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Having the Confidence to Fulfil the Numbers Part of a Board Member's Fiduciary Responsibilities
Nonprofit board members know their organization must be financially healthy to do the most good, but some people find financial statements hard to decipher. However, board members of nonprofits need to know basic accounting in order to fulfill their fiduciary responsibilities. Holding management accountable is a crucial responsibility of the board. Knowing which KPIs and trends to track can help keep the nonprofit on track. Nonprofit board members need to invest the time to be able to ask probing questions of management and the auditor to fulfill their responsibilities.
Melisa Galasso is the founder and CEO of Galasso Learning Solutions LLC. A CPA with nearly 20 years of experience in accounting, Melisa designs and facilitates courses in advanced technical accounting and auditing topics, including not-for-profit and governmental accounting. Melisa is a Certified Speaking Professional in Talent Development (CPTD) and has earned the Association for Talent Development Master Trainer™ designation. Her passion for instructional design and adult learning techniques is one of the differentiators that set her apart from other CPE providers. Within the industry, Melisa serves on the FASB’s Not-for-Profit Advisory Committee (NAC), and AICPA Council, and is the Chair of Girls on the Run Greater Charlotte's Advisory Board. She previously served on the AICPA’s Technical Issues Committee (TIC), and the VSCPA’s Board of Directors, and is a past Chair of the NCACPA’s A&amp;A committee. Melisa is the author of Money Matters for Nonprofits: How Board Members Can Harness the Power of Financial Statements by Understanding Basic Accounting.
﻿For more information, go to https://galassolearningsolutions.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Having the Confidence to Fulfil the Numbers Part of a Board Member's Fiduciary Responsibilities</strong></h1><p>Nonprofit board members know their organization must be financially healthy to do the most good, but some people find financial statements hard to decipher. However, board members of nonprofits need to know basic accounting in order to fulfill their fiduciary responsibilities. Holding management accountable is a crucial responsibility of the board. Knowing which KPIs and trends to track can help keep the nonprofit on track. Nonprofit board members need to invest the time to be able to ask probing questions of management and the auditor to fulfill their responsibilities.</p><p><strong>Melisa Galasso</strong> is the founder and CEO of Galasso Learning Solutions LLC. A CPA with nearly 20 years of experience in accounting, Melisa designs and facilitates courses in advanced technical accounting and auditing topics, including not-for-profit and governmental accounting. Melisa is a Certified Speaking Professional in Talent Development (CPTD) and has earned the Association for Talent Development Master Trainer™ designation. Her passion for instructional design and adult learning techniques is one of the differentiators that set her apart from other CPE providers. Within the industry, Melisa serves on the FASB’s Not-for-Profit Advisory Committee (NAC), and AICPA Council, and is the Chair of Girls on the Run Greater Charlotte's Advisory Board. She previously served on the AICPA’s Technical Issues Committee (TIC), and the VSCPA’s Board of Directors, and is a past Chair of the NCACPA’s A&amp;A committee. Melisa is the author of Money Matters for Nonprofits: How Board Members Can Harness the Power of Financial Statements by Understanding Basic Accounting.</p><p>﻿For more information, go to <a href="https://galassolearningsolutions.com/"><strong>https://galassolearningsolutions.com/</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1869</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Bridging the Knowledge Gap for Military Service Members and Families</title>
      <description>Saving lives: Bridging the Knowledge Gap for Military Service Members and Families to Avoid Loss of Life, and the Loss of HOPE! 
Brian Arrington, USAF (ret), M.S. is President/Founder of VETS2INDUSTRY LLC and Vets2Industry Foundation Inc. and is Director, Military Programs and Recruiting for Military Hiring Accelerator, LLC. 
Brian retired July 2019, from the United States Air Force with Robins AFB, GA as his final duty station. His distinguished career led him to deploy to Iraq, Afghanistan, Thailand, and Qatar and provide humanitarian relief throughout SE Asia during the tsunami, Haiti during the earthquake, and in Turkey supporting refugee 
evacuations during the Israel-Lebanon Mideast Crisis. Brian’s career has taken him to 90 countries and 5 of the 7 continents. 
In his last year of 20-years devoted service to the U.S. Air Force, Brian learned there were over 45,000 Veteran Service Organizations nationwide that provided free services and support to U.S. military families and realized a huge gap existed between available free Veteran, Military Spouse, and dependent children resources and benefits and the knowledge of their existence among our nations heroes and their families. 
With this newly discovered knowledge, Brian vowed to eliminate the knowledge gap and ensure the success of every veteran and their families by creating an online library, a free single-site repository of every free Veteran Service Organization to include providing mentorship and information services to each knowledge-seeker. 
Since the library’s creation, March 2019, Brian has led VETS2INDUSTRY’s growth by reaching 100,000+ veterans and military spouses with over 300,000 page-views on the website and he continues to supply employment opportunity success with the ever-growing grassroots volunteer force of veterans and military spouses he leads. 
Brian is married with 6 children, resides in Atlanta, is an active alumnus of Centurion Military Alliance, Hiring our Heroes Corporate Fellowship Program, FourBlock, American Corporate Partners, volunteers with VETLANTA, the National Black MBA Association Atlanta Chapter, and is a student veteran leader and student ambassador at Syracuse University where he is currently pursuing his MBA and an M.S. in Entrepreneurship. 
He holds 2 A.A.S. from the Community College of the Air Force, a B.A. in History, a Graduate Certificate in Homeland Security, and a M.S. in Management from Thomas Edison State University, and is a certified Georgia State Hostage Negotiator. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2022 19:06:06 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Bridging the Knowledge Gap for Military Service Members and Families</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle> Avoid Loss of Life, and the Loss of HOPE! </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Saving lives: Bridging the Knowledge Gap for Military Service Members and Families to Avoid Loss of Life, and the Loss of HOPE! 
Brian Arrington, USAF (ret), M.S. is President/Founder of VETS2INDUSTRY LLC and Vets2Industry Foundation Inc. and is Director, Military Programs and Recruiting for Military Hiring Accelerator, LLC. 
Brian retired July 2019, from the United States Air Force with Robins AFB, GA as his final duty station. His distinguished career led him to deploy to Iraq, Afghanistan, Thailand, and Qatar and provide humanitarian relief throughout SE Asia during the tsunami, Haiti during the earthquake, and in Turkey supporting refugee 
evacuations during the Israel-Lebanon Mideast Crisis. Brian’s career has taken him to 90 countries and 5 of the 7 continents. 
In his last year of 20-years devoted service to the U.S. Air Force, Brian learned there were over 45,000 Veteran Service Organizations nationwide that provided free services and support to U.S. military families and realized a huge gap existed between available free Veteran, Military Spouse, and dependent children resources and benefits and the knowledge of their existence among our nations heroes and their families. 
With this newly discovered knowledge, Brian vowed to eliminate the knowledge gap and ensure the success of every veteran and their families by creating an online library, a free single-site repository of every free Veteran Service Organization to include providing mentorship and information services to each knowledge-seeker. 
Since the library’s creation, March 2019, Brian has led VETS2INDUSTRY’s growth by reaching 100,000+ veterans and military spouses with over 300,000 page-views on the website and he continues to supply employment opportunity success with the ever-growing grassroots volunteer force of veterans and military spouses he leads. 
Brian is married with 6 children, resides in Atlanta, is an active alumnus of Centurion Military Alliance, Hiring our Heroes Corporate Fellowship Program, FourBlock, American Corporate Partners, volunteers with VETLANTA, the National Black MBA Association Atlanta Chapter, and is a student veteran leader and student ambassador at Syracuse University where he is currently pursuing his MBA and an M.S. in Entrepreneurship. 
He holds 2 A.A.S. from the Community College of the Air Force, a B.A. in History, a Graduate Certificate in Homeland Security, and a M.S. in Management from Thomas Edison State University, and is a certified Georgia State Hostage Negotiator. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Saving lives: Bridging the Knowledge Gap for Military Service Members and Families to Avoid Loss of Life, and the Loss of HOPE! </strong></p><p>Brian Arrington, USAF (ret), M.S. is President/Founder of VETS2INDUSTRY LLC and Vets2Industry Foundation Inc. and is Director, Military Programs and Recruiting for Military Hiring Accelerator, LLC. </p><p>Brian retired July 2019, from the United States Air Force with Robins AFB, GA as his final duty station. His distinguished career led him to deploy to Iraq, Afghanistan, Thailand, and Qatar and provide humanitarian relief throughout SE Asia during the tsunami, Haiti during the earthquake, and in Turkey supporting refugee </p><p>evacuations during the Israel-Lebanon Mideast Crisis. Brian’s career has taken him to 90 countries and 5 of the 7 continents. </p><p>In his last year of 20-years devoted service to the U.S. Air Force, Brian learned there were over 45,000 Veteran Service Organizations nationwide that provided free services and support to U.S. military families and realized a huge gap existed between available free Veteran, Military Spouse, and dependent children resources and benefits and the knowledge of their existence among our nations heroes and their families. </p><p>With this newly discovered knowledge, Brian vowed to eliminate the knowledge gap and ensure the success of every veteran and their families by creating an online library, a free single-site repository of every free Veteran Service Organization to include providing mentorship and information services to each knowledge-seeker. </p><p>Since the library’s creation, March 2019, Brian has led VETS2INDUSTRY’s growth by reaching 100,000+ veterans and military spouses with over 300,000 page-views on the website and he continues to supply employment opportunity success with the ever-growing grassroots volunteer force of veterans and military spouses he leads. </p><p>Brian is married with 6 children, resides in Atlanta, is an active alumnus of Centurion Military Alliance, Hiring our Heroes Corporate Fellowship Program, FourBlock, American Corporate Partners, volunteers with VETLANTA, the National Black MBA Association Atlanta Chapter, and is a student veteran leader and student ambassador at Syracuse University where he is currently pursuing his MBA and an M.S. in Entrepreneurship. </p><p>He holds 2 A.A.S. from the Community College of the Air Force, a B.A. in History, a Graduate Certificate in Homeland Security, and a M.S. in Management from Thomas Edison State University, and is a certified Georgia State Hostage Negotiator. </p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1887</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1579949177.mp3?updated=1664911002" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The New Leadership Playbook - Being Human Whilst Successfully Delivering Accelerated Results</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-new-leadership-playbook/</link>
      <description>The New Leadership Playbook - Being Human Whilst Successfully Delivering Accelerated Results:
Interview with Andrew Bryant
Do we need a New Leadership Playbook, hasn't it all been said before?

You can't lead others unless you first lead yourself (self-leadership is the first principle)

To get results you need a leadership framework ( expectations X mindset and motivation X Right Behaviors

Leadership is a series of conversations with people (These conversations are like 'plays' in sports)

We need to master synchronous and asynchronous leadership in a digital world 

Kids understand the power of ownership (responsibility), so there's no excuse


A global expert and author on self-leadership and leadership, Andrew Bryant has just published his fourth book. ‘New Leadership Playbook – Being Human Whilst Successfully Delivering Accelerated Results. This is a book for managers and leaders to lead in the times effectively, we now live in.
For nearly 25 years Andrew has been crafting &amp; delivering valuable &amp; memorable experiences for diverse audiences. From Singapore to Silicon Valley, he has inspired, informed &amp; ignited audiences to take ownership &amp; responsibility – to be more creative &amp; collaborative – to be more human in a digitally disruptive world.
Andrew is the founder of Self Leadership International, a C-Suite Advisor, and a coach to Executive Leadership Teams. He is a Certified Speaking Professional (CSP), TEDx Speaker, Former President of Asia Professional Speakers Singapore, and current President of PSA Spain.
For all this, Andrew is most proud of the work he has done building self-esteem and confidence for disadvantaged teenagers.
Andrew now lives in Portugal, but he is British by Birth, Australian by Passport, and Brazilian by Wife!

More information at - https://www.selfleadership.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2022 21:16:22 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The New Leadership Playbook - Being Human Whilst Successfully Delivering Accelerated Results</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Do we need a New Leadership Playbook, hasn't it all been said before?</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The New Leadership Playbook - Being Human Whilst Successfully Delivering Accelerated Results:
Interview with Andrew Bryant
Do we need a New Leadership Playbook, hasn't it all been said before?

You can't lead others unless you first lead yourself (self-leadership is the first principle)

To get results you need a leadership framework ( expectations X mindset and motivation X Right Behaviors

Leadership is a series of conversations with people (These conversations are like 'plays' in sports)

We need to master synchronous and asynchronous leadership in a digital world 

Kids understand the power of ownership (responsibility), so there's no excuse


A global expert and author on self-leadership and leadership, Andrew Bryant has just published his fourth book. ‘New Leadership Playbook – Being Human Whilst Successfully Delivering Accelerated Results. This is a book for managers and leaders to lead in the times effectively, we now live in.
For nearly 25 years Andrew has been crafting &amp; delivering valuable &amp; memorable experiences for diverse audiences. From Singapore to Silicon Valley, he has inspired, informed &amp; ignited audiences to take ownership &amp; responsibility – to be more creative &amp; collaborative – to be more human in a digitally disruptive world.
Andrew is the founder of Self Leadership International, a C-Suite Advisor, and a coach to Executive Leadership Teams. He is a Certified Speaking Professional (CSP), TEDx Speaker, Former President of Asia Professional Speakers Singapore, and current President of PSA Spain.
For all this, Andrew is most proud of the work he has done building self-esteem and confidence for disadvantaged teenagers.
Andrew now lives in Portugal, but he is British by Birth, Australian by Passport, and Brazilian by Wife!

More information at - https://www.selfleadership.com 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>The New Leadership Playbook - Being Human Whilst Successfully Delivering Accelerated Results:</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Andrew Bryant</strong></h1><p>Do we need a New Leadership Playbook, hasn't it all been said before?</p><ul>
<li>You can't lead others unless you first lead yourself (self-leadership is the first principle)</li>
<li>To get results you need a leadership framework ( expectations X mindset and motivation X Right Behaviors</li>
<li>Leadership is a series of conversations with people (These conversations are like 'plays' in sports)</li>
<li>We need to master synchronous and asynchronous leadership in a digital world </li>
<li>Kids understand the power of ownership (responsibility), so there's no excuse</li>
</ul><p><br></p><p>A global expert and author on self-leadership and leadership, <strong>Andrew Bryant</strong> has just published his fourth book. ‘New Leadership Playbook – Being Human Whilst Successfully Delivering Accelerated Results. This is a book for managers and leaders to lead in the times effectively, we now live in.</p><p>For nearly 25 years Andrew has been crafting &amp; delivering valuable &amp; memorable experiences for diverse audiences. From Singapore to Silicon Valley, he has inspired, informed &amp; ignited audiences to take ownership &amp; responsibility – to be more creative &amp; collaborative – to be more human in a digitally disruptive world.</p><p>Andrew is the founder of Self Leadership International, a C-Suite Advisor, and a coach to Executive Leadership Teams. He is a Certified Speaking Professional (CSP), TEDx Speaker, Former President of Asia Professional Speakers Singapore, and current President of PSA Spain.</p><p>For all this, Andrew is most proud of the work he has done building self-esteem and confidence for disadvantaged teenagers.</p><p>Andrew now lives in Portugal, but he is British by Birth, Australian by Passport, and Brazilian by Wife!</p><p><br></p><p>More information at - <a href="https://www.selfleadership.com%20"><strong>https://www.selfleadership.com </strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1957</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2a2fd008-3eaa-11ed-81d1-e7f1413d9104]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7483148191.mp3?updated=1664314028" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why and How Congregations Need to Build a Military Ministry</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-build-a-military-ministry/</link>
      <description>Why and How Congregations Need to Build a Military Ministry: Interview with Kathy Gallowitz
Why military ministries are important for the military connected population and how equipped volunteers can offer practical support and promote spiritual resiliency. This community outreach is a win-win.
Retired LtCol Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz is career Air Force Veteran who served as a Public Affairs Officer and Nurse. 
It was her life’s calling to design and lead a never-been-done-before outreach office (in response to 9/11) for the Ohio National Guard to educate and engage civilians in support of troops and their families.  
Now, as the owner of Vanguard Veteran, she equips civilians to become Veteran Champions. She coaches volunteers how to create “Military Ministries” (in partnership with clergy) to foster connection, a sense of belonging and promote spiritual resiliency.
Masters degrees in Nursing and Political Science frame her practice and perspectives.
Her husband, Ed is a retired active duty Soldier with four combat tours. Together they have six sons, one daughter and three grandchildren.  
Kathy and Ed love to serve God, travel, and live in the great Southwest.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2022 20:26:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Why and How Congregations Need to Build a Military Ministry</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Kathy Gallowitz</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Why and How Congregations Need to Build a Military Ministry: Interview with Kathy Gallowitz
Why military ministries are important for the military connected population and how equipped volunteers can offer practical support and promote spiritual resiliency. This community outreach is a win-win.
Retired LtCol Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz is career Air Force Veteran who served as a Public Affairs Officer and Nurse. 
It was her life’s calling to design and lead a never-been-done-before outreach office (in response to 9/11) for the Ohio National Guard to educate and engage civilians in support of troops and their families.  
Now, as the owner of Vanguard Veteran, she equips civilians to become Veteran Champions. She coaches volunteers how to create “Military Ministries” (in partnership with clergy) to foster connection, a sense of belonging and promote spiritual resiliency.
Masters degrees in Nursing and Political Science frame her practice and perspectives.
Her husband, Ed is a retired active duty Soldier with four combat tours. Together they have six sons, one daughter and three grandchildren.  
Kathy and Ed love to serve God, travel, and live in the great Southwest.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Why and How Congregations Need to Build a Military Ministry: Interview with Kathy Gallowitz</strong></h1><p>Why military ministries are important for the military connected population and how equipped volunteers can offer practical support and promote spiritual resiliency. This community outreach is a win-win.</p><p>Retired LtCol Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz is career Air Force Veteran who served as a Public Affairs Officer and Nurse. </p><p>It was her life’s calling to design and lead a never-been-done-before outreach office (in response to 9/11) for the Ohio National Guard to educate and engage civilians in support of troops and their families.  </p><p>Now, as the owner of Vanguard Veteran, she equips civilians to become Veteran Champions. She coaches volunteers how to create “Military Ministries” (in partnership with clergy) to foster connection, a sense of belonging and promote spiritual resiliency.</p><p>Masters degrees in Nursing and Political Science frame her practice and perspectives.</p><p>Her husband, Ed is a retired active duty Soldier with four combat tours. Together they have six sons, one daughter and three grandchildren.  </p><p>Kathy and Ed love to serve God, travel, and live in the great Southwest.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2058</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How Being a Faithful Business Servant Empowers Your Mission</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/how-being-a-faithful-business-servant-empowers-your-mission/</link>
      <description>How Being a Faithful Business Servant Empowers Your Mission:
Interview with Vince Baker
Nonprofits and churches ignore or devalue online marketing, which limits their effectiveness and reach and compromises their ability to secure sufficient funding to achieve their mission.
Vince Baker is a highly motivated Business Marketing Agent, Internet Marketing Coach, Public Speaker, and Author. Vince has a proven track record of succeeding in competitive sales markets, internet marketing, leadership roles, problem-solving, and coaching top sales reps.
His years of experience ranges from Yellow Pages, Direct Mail, Internet Marketing, and Business Coaching. His multi-dimensional experience in all these forms of marketing has enabled him to bring success to a vast array of business owners and sales agents

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2022 19:39:40 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How Being a Faithful Business Servant Empowers Your Mission</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Vince Baker</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How Being a Faithful Business Servant Empowers Your Mission:
Interview with Vince Baker
Nonprofits and churches ignore or devalue online marketing, which limits their effectiveness and reach and compromises their ability to secure sufficient funding to achieve their mission.
Vince Baker is a highly motivated Business Marketing Agent, Internet Marketing Coach, Public Speaker, and Author. Vince has a proven track record of succeeding in competitive sales markets, internet marketing, leadership roles, problem-solving, and coaching top sales reps.
His years of experience ranges from Yellow Pages, Direct Mail, Internet Marketing, and Business Coaching. His multi-dimensional experience in all these forms of marketing has enabled him to bring success to a vast array of business owners and sales agents

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>How Being a Faithful Business Servant Empowers Your Mission:</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Vince Baker</strong></h1><p>Nonprofits and churches ignore or devalue online marketing, which limits their effectiveness and reach and compromises their ability to secure sufficient funding to achieve their mission.</p><p><strong>Vince Baker</strong> is a highly motivated Business Marketing Agent, Internet Marketing Coach, Public Speaker, and Author. Vince has a proven track record of succeeding in competitive sales markets, internet marketing, leadership roles, problem-solving, and coaching top sales reps.</p><p>His years of experience ranges from Yellow Pages, Direct Mail, Internet Marketing, and Business Coaching. His multi-dimensional experience in all these forms of marketing has enabled him to bring success to a vast array of business owners and sales agents</p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2085</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[e38306f2-339b-11ed-9571-e7c740140be0]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5179552348.mp3?updated=1663098316" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Focusing on the Right Audience to Build Your Brand</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-build-your-brand/</link>
      <description>Focusing on the Right Audience to Build Your Brand with Branding Specialist, Beth Brodovsky

When looking for new audiences it’s hard to know where to start. Your next great supporter seems like they could come from anywhere. But what if there was a way to narrow your search?
Of course, you want everyone to connect with your work, but building a brand is about focus. And building a thriving organization requires focusing on the most important audience first.
By using the AMIE process, you’ll learn to research from the inside out to find the right Audience, Message, Image, and Experience for your organization.
As the president of Iris Creative Group Inc., Beth Brodovsky works with nonprofit leaders to focus their audience and move them to action. For 25 years, Beth and her team have developed nonprofit branding, marketing, and fundraising communication. She runs Nonprofit Toolkit, training programs to grow in-house marketing skills on staff, hosted the 200-episode Driving Participation Podcast, and speaks on nonprofit marketing nationally.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2022 20:37:06 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Focusing on the Right Audience to Build Your Brand</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Branding Specialist Beth Brodovsky</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Focusing on the Right Audience to Build Your Brand with Branding Specialist, Beth Brodovsky

When looking for new audiences it’s hard to know where to start. Your next great supporter seems like they could come from anywhere. But what if there was a way to narrow your search?
Of course, you want everyone to connect with your work, but building a brand is about focus. And building a thriving organization requires focusing on the most important audience first.
By using the AMIE process, you’ll learn to research from the inside out to find the right Audience, Message, Image, and Experience for your organization.
As the president of Iris Creative Group Inc., Beth Brodovsky works with nonprofit leaders to focus their audience and move them to action. For 25 years, Beth and her team have developed nonprofit branding, marketing, and fundraising communication. She runs Nonprofit Toolkit, training programs to grow in-house marketing skills on staff, hosted the 200-episode Driving Participation Podcast, and speaks on nonprofit marketing nationally.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Focusing on the Right Audience to Build Your Brand with Branding Specialist, Beth Brodovsky</strong></p><p><br></p><p>When looking for new audiences it’s hard to know where to start. Your next great supporter seems like they could come from anywhere. But what if there was a way to narrow your search?</p><p>Of course, you want everyone to connect with your work, but building a brand is about focus. And building a thriving organization requires focusing on the most important audience first.</p><p>By using the AMIE process, you’ll learn to research from the inside out to find the right Audience, Message, Image, and Experience for your organization.</p><p>As the president of Iris Creative Group Inc., <strong>Beth Brodovsky</strong> works with nonprofit leaders to focus their audience and move them to action. For 25 years, Beth and her team have developed nonprofit branding, marketing, and fundraising communication. She runs Nonprofit Toolkit, training programs to grow in-house marketing skills on staff, hosted the 200-episode Driving Participation Podcast, and speaks on nonprofit marketing nationally.</p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2062</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8186408196.mp3?updated=1662496933" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Bank On Yourself for Nonprofits: Interview with MARK WILLIS CFP</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/bank-on-yourself/</link>
      <description>Bank On Yourself for Nonprofits: Interview with MARK WILLIS CFP
How Bank On Yourself can apply to a variety of nonprofit situations and goals. Some generic examples might be charitable giving, employee retention, and retirement planning.
Mark Willis, CFP® is a man on a mission to help you think diﬀerently about your money, your economy, and your future.
Mark is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™, a three-time #1 Best Selling Author, and the owner of Lake Growth Financial Services, a ﬁnancial ﬁrm in Chicago, Illinois. As co-host of the Not Your Average Financial Podcast™, he shares some of his strategies for investing in real estate, paying for college without going broke, and creating an income in retirement you will not outlive. Mark works with people who want to grow their wealth in ways that are safe and predictable, to become their own source of ﬁnancing, and to create tax-free income in retirement.
For more information, go to https://lakegrowth.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2022 19:01:55 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Bank On Yourself for Nonprofits: Interview with MARK WILLIS CFP</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Using your own resources</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Bank On Yourself for Nonprofits: Interview with MARK WILLIS CFP
How Bank On Yourself can apply to a variety of nonprofit situations and goals. Some generic examples might be charitable giving, employee retention, and retirement planning.
Mark Willis, CFP® is a man on a mission to help you think diﬀerently about your money, your economy, and your future.
Mark is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™, a three-time #1 Best Selling Author, and the owner of Lake Growth Financial Services, a ﬁnancial ﬁrm in Chicago, Illinois. As co-host of the Not Your Average Financial Podcast™, he shares some of his strategies for investing in real estate, paying for college without going broke, and creating an income in retirement you will not outlive. Mark works with people who want to grow their wealth in ways that are safe and predictable, to become their own source of ﬁnancing, and to create tax-free income in retirement.
For more information, go to https://lakegrowth.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Bank On Yourself for Nonprofits: Interview with MARK WILLIS CFP</strong></p><p>How Bank On Yourself can apply to a variety of nonprofit situations and goals. Some generic examples might be charitable giving, employee retention, and retirement planning.</p><p><strong>Mark Willis</strong>, CFP® is a man on a mission to help you think diﬀerently about your money, your economy, and your future.</p><p>Mark is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™, a three-time #1 Best Selling Author, and the owner of Lake Growth Financial Services, a ﬁnancial ﬁrm in Chicago, Illinois. As co-host of the Not Your Average Financial Podcast™, he shares some of his strategies for investing in real estate, paying for college without going broke, and creating an income in retirement you will not outlive. Mark works with people who want to grow their wealth in ways that are safe and predictable, to become their own source of ﬁnancing, and to create tax-free income in retirement.</p><p>For more information, go to <a href="https://lakegrowth.com/"><strong>https://lakegrowth.com/</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1792</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[550d0162-2896-11ed-ab0a-d3edfe2b2fb1]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8773878080.mp3?updated=1661886614" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why Use a Benefit Auctioneer</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-auctioneer/</link>
      <description>Why Use a Benefit Auctioneer:
Interview with Dean Crownover

Why hire a professional for the fundraising (it’s so much cheaper to do it on our own)!?
Hey – valid question. What a lot of people don’t realize is that auctioneers need to be licensed in many states – like Georgia, North Carolina and Alabama. There are legalities around selling items, even for charity, and you need to be covered. Make sure you know the rules for your state.
What’s even more important for your nonprofit, though, is that a professional auctioneer can maximize the revenue you generate at your event. After all, why put in all the time and effort of hosting a gala NOT to generate the most money you possibly can to support your mission?
And if you ARE hiring a professional, check out Chapter 7 of my book to learn how to hire a benefit auctioneer for your event. You’ll want to know some important details like…
How much experience do they have being a profit consultant?
How much funds have they helped raise?
Who else have they worked with (and were their clients happy)?
An auctioneer can boost the price of your auction items and (hopefully) keep your audience entertained, but are they holistically looking at your whole event and identifying ways to increase funds and revenue?
This is my FAVORITE part of what I do. As a Profit Consultant I look for all areas and opportunities to cover your event costs, increase the amount people give and new ways to create more revenue even before or after the event is over. Then, at your event, I auction-tain your donors from stage to open their wallets and give generously!
Dean Crownover, My Benefit Auctioneer, is a Profit Consultant and author, with a track record of raising millions of fundraising dollars for his nonprofit clients. Jane Fonda said “Dean Crownover is a dynamic auctioneer with the fast-talking pizzazz needed to rake it in!” He is the author of PADDLES UP! My Benefit Auctioneer Reveals Post-2020 Gala Fundraiser Secrets. The book shares proven fundraising strategies, including those that emerged from virtual events during the pandemic, and how they can be incorporated for live events.
More about Dean Crownover at https://www.MyBenefitAuctioneer.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2022 20:37:11 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Why Use a Benefit Auctioneer</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dean Crownover</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Why Use a Benefit Auctioneer:
Interview with Dean Crownover

Why hire a professional for the fundraising (it’s so much cheaper to do it on our own)!?
Hey – valid question. What a lot of people don’t realize is that auctioneers need to be licensed in many states – like Georgia, North Carolina and Alabama. There are legalities around selling items, even for charity, and you need to be covered. Make sure you know the rules for your state.
What’s even more important for your nonprofit, though, is that a professional auctioneer can maximize the revenue you generate at your event. After all, why put in all the time and effort of hosting a gala NOT to generate the most money you possibly can to support your mission?
And if you ARE hiring a professional, check out Chapter 7 of my book to learn how to hire a benefit auctioneer for your event. You’ll want to know some important details like…
How much experience do they have being a profit consultant?
How much funds have they helped raise?
Who else have they worked with (and were their clients happy)?
An auctioneer can boost the price of your auction items and (hopefully) keep your audience entertained, but are they holistically looking at your whole event and identifying ways to increase funds and revenue?
This is my FAVORITE part of what I do. As a Profit Consultant I look for all areas and opportunities to cover your event costs, increase the amount people give and new ways to create more revenue even before or after the event is over. Then, at your event, I auction-tain your donors from stage to open their wallets and give generously!
Dean Crownover, My Benefit Auctioneer, is a Profit Consultant and author, with a track record of raising millions of fundraising dollars for his nonprofit clients. Jane Fonda said “Dean Crownover is a dynamic auctioneer with the fast-talking pizzazz needed to rake it in!” He is the author of PADDLES UP! My Benefit Auctioneer Reveals Post-2020 Gala Fundraiser Secrets. The book shares proven fundraising strategies, including those that emerged from virtual events during the pandemic, and how they can be incorporated for live events.
More about Dean Crownover at https://www.MyBenefitAuctioneer.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Why Use a Benefit Auctioneer:</h1><h1>Interview with Dean Crownover</h1><p><br></p><p>Why hire a professional for the fundraising (it’s so much cheaper to do it on our own)!?</p><p>Hey – valid question. What a lot of people don’t realize is that auctioneers need to be licensed in many states – like Georgia, North Carolina and Alabama. There are legalities around selling items, even for charity, and you need to be covered. Make sure you know the rules for your state.</p><p>What’s even more important for your nonprofit, though, is that a professional auctioneer can maximize the revenue you generate at your event. After all, why put in all the time and effort of hosting a gala NOT to generate the most money you possibly can to support your mission?</p><p>And if you ARE hiring a professional, check out Chapter 7 of my book to learn how to hire a benefit auctioneer for your event. You’ll want to know some important details like…</p><p>How much experience do they have being a profit consultant?</p><p>How much funds have they helped raise?</p><p>Who else have they worked with (and were their clients happy)?</p><p>An auctioneer can boost the price of your auction items and (hopefully) keep your audience entertained, but are they holistically looking at your whole event and identifying ways to increase funds and revenue?</p><p>This is my FAVORITE part of what I do. As a Profit Consultant I look for all areas and opportunities to cover your event costs, increase the amount people give and new ways to create more revenue even before or after the event is over. Then, at your event, I auction-tain your donors from stage to open their wallets and give generously!</p><p><strong>Dean Crownover</strong>, My Benefit Auctioneer, is a Profit Consultant and author, with a track record of raising millions of fundraising dollars for his nonprofit clients. Jane Fonda said “Dean Crownover is a dynamic auctioneer with the fast-talking pizzazz needed to rake it in!” He is the author of PADDLES UP! My Benefit Auctioneer Reveals Post-2020 Gala Fundraiser Secrets. The book shares proven fundraising strategies, including those that emerged from virtual events during the pandemic, and how they can be incorporated for live events.</p><p>More about Dean Crownover at <a href="https://www.mybenefitauctioneer.com/"><strong>https://www.MyBenefitAuctioneer.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1788</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[17514cc0-2323-11ed-b863-33f23ef125be]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7107281539.mp3?updated=1661287333" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leadership Within the Barbershop: The Importance of Mentorship</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-leadership-within-barbershop/</link>
      <description>Leadership Within the Barbershop:
The Importance of Mentorship
Interview with Dr. Lumumba Quow, DPB, and Dr. Sundiata Morris, DPB
Leaders are the pillar of the community and it takes a special person to have the drive and tenacity to up live that responsibility. it takes a village to raise a child, it is that keeps the world going around and around because we care about all the lives that are broken.
CUT MY CITY Is designed to put an inspirational and motivational energy in the communities, for the people to develop a desire to deal with themselves. This is where we go into the communities giving free haircuts weekly for the homeless, less fortunate families, disabled vets, and the elderly. We will be promoting literacy and resources that will provide information to uplift and give individuals a sense of pride within themselves while they are being cleaned up. Reading material will also be provided as well as live readings to assure understanding to impact oneself. A bag per child will be full of resources that will not only strengthen his or her mind but will give a start in development and also motivate their lifestyles and embrace their differences.
Interview with The Barbers: Dr. Lumumba Quow, DPB, and, Dr. Sundiata Morris, DPB
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2022 20:37:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leadership Within the Barbershop: The Importance of Mentorship</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dr. Lumumba Quow, DPB, and Dr. Sundiata Morris, DPB</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leadership Within the Barbershop:
The Importance of Mentorship
Interview with Dr. Lumumba Quow, DPB, and Dr. Sundiata Morris, DPB
Leaders are the pillar of the community and it takes a special person to have the drive and tenacity to up live that responsibility. it takes a village to raise a child, it is that keeps the world going around and around because we care about all the lives that are broken.
CUT MY CITY Is designed to put an inspirational and motivational energy in the communities, for the people to develop a desire to deal with themselves. This is where we go into the communities giving free haircuts weekly for the homeless, less fortunate families, disabled vets, and the elderly. We will be promoting literacy and resources that will provide information to uplift and give individuals a sense of pride within themselves while they are being cleaned up. Reading material will also be provided as well as live readings to assure understanding to impact oneself. A bag per child will be full of resources that will not only strengthen his or her mind but will give a start in development and also motivate their lifestyles and embrace their differences.
Interview with The Barbers: Dr. Lumumba Quow, DPB, and, Dr. Sundiata Morris, DPB
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Leadership Within the Barbershop:</h1><h1>The Importance of Mentorship</h1><h1>Interview with Dr. Lumumba Quow, DPB, and Dr. Sundiata Morris, DPB</h1><p>Leaders are the pillar of the community and it takes a special person to have the drive and tenacity to up live that responsibility. it takes a village to raise a child, it is that keeps the world going around and around because we care about all the lives that are broken.</p><p>CUT MY CITY Is designed to put an inspirational and motivational energy in the communities, for the people to develop a desire to deal with themselves. This is where we go into the communities giving free haircuts weekly for the homeless, less fortunate families, disabled vets, and the elderly. We will be promoting literacy and resources that will provide information to uplift and give individuals a sense of pride within themselves while they are being cleaned up. Reading material will also be provided as well as live readings to assure understanding to impact oneself. A bag per child will be full of resources that will not only strengthen his or her mind but will give a start in development and also motivate their lifestyles and embrace their differences.</p><p>Interview with The Barbers: <strong>Dr. Lumumba Quow, DPB</strong>, and, <strong>Dr. Sundiata Morris, DPB</strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1905</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[45fda562-1da3-11ed-9d83-0f292084e77e]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8535631584.mp3?updated=1660682561" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leadership Networking: Equipping Yourself for Success in the New Era</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-leadership-networking/</link>
      <description>Leadership Networking: Equipping Yourself for Success in the New Era
Terilee Harrison is a Virtual and Face-to-Face Networking Expert/Trainer, an Entrepreneur, and an International Speaker/Author. She connects business owners, coaches, and consultants through an online global referral community at TEAM Referral Network Virtual Chapters.
An expert in business networking and relationship marketing for 15 years, Terilee has worked with thousands of entrepreneurs at TEAM Referral Network in Southern California.
After an international move from the US to Singapore in 2017, she began networking virtually in 2018 and went full force into this emerging trend. Today, she works with professionals with borderless boundary businesses from all of North America, the UK, Australia, and beyond.
As a professional speaker, Terilee’s ability to both inspire and challenge audiences to action and change can be attributed to her consistently authentic presentation regarding who she is, where she’s been, and what she’s learned along the way.
Today, Terilee resides in Houston, TX with her husband, Terry. Together, they have 4 children.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2022 19:01:56 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leadership Networking: Equipping Yourself for Success in the New Era</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Networking Expert Terilee Harrison</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leadership Networking: Equipping Yourself for Success in the New Era
Terilee Harrison is a Virtual and Face-to-Face Networking Expert/Trainer, an Entrepreneur, and an International Speaker/Author. She connects business owners, coaches, and consultants through an online global referral community at TEAM Referral Network Virtual Chapters.
An expert in business networking and relationship marketing for 15 years, Terilee has worked with thousands of entrepreneurs at TEAM Referral Network in Southern California.
After an international move from the US to Singapore in 2017, she began networking virtually in 2018 and went full force into this emerging trend. Today, she works with professionals with borderless boundary businesses from all of North America, the UK, Australia, and beyond.
As a professional speaker, Terilee’s ability to both inspire and challenge audiences to action and change can be attributed to her consistently authentic presentation regarding who she is, where she’s been, and what she’s learned along the way.
Today, Terilee resides in Houston, TX with her husband, Terry. Together, they have 4 children.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Leadership Networking: Equipping Yourself for Success in the New Era</h1><p>Terilee Harrison is a Virtual and Face-to-Face Networking Expert/Trainer, an Entrepreneur, and an International Speaker/Author. She connects business owners, coaches, and consultants through an online global referral community at TEAM Referral Network Virtual Chapters.</p><p>An expert in business networking and relationship marketing for 15 years, Terilee has worked with thousands of entrepreneurs at TEAM Referral Network in Southern California.</p><p>After an international move from the US to Singapore in 2017, she began networking virtually in 2018 and went full force into this emerging trend. Today, she works with professionals with borderless boundary businesses from all of North America, the UK, Australia, and beyond.</p><p>As a professional speaker, Terilee’s ability to both inspire and challenge audiences to action and change can be attributed to her consistently authentic presentation regarding who she is, where she’s been, and what she’s learned along the way.</p><p>Today, Terilee resides in Houston, TX with her husband, Terry. Together, they have 4 children.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1776</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[ff036aa8-1815-11ed-976b-dff87286a849]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5187903866.mp3?updated=1660072243" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Storytelling Is the Pathway to Nonprofit Funding Success</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/storytelling-is-the-pathway-to-nonprofit-funding-success/</link>
      <description>Storytelling Is the Pathway to Nonprofit Funding Success with Storytelling Coach Melissa Reaves
Nonprofit storytelling is imperative. No graph or pie chart can resonate emotionally as deeply as a story. What happened this year with one of the constituents your organziation served that is storyworthy for your annual fundraising drive? HOW do you tell the story that the audience is mesmerized and emotionally hooked to help you with you cause? Learn these skill across your organization to create a storytelling culture and watch your business expand.
Melissa Reaves is an award-winning storyteller and Executive Storytelling Mentor. She guides C-Suite Exectuives, Rising Stars and Founders seeking to raise capital–to infuse the power of storytelling into all of their presentations. Her book, The Storyteller’s Mind Movie, (due out in fall 2022) will show you how to do it effectively using the elements that professioal storytelling artist use–so that your business audiences lean in as you mesmerize and captivate their attention.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2022 22:13:16 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Storytelling Is the Pathway to Nonprofit Funding Success</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Storytelling Coach Melissa Reaves</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Storytelling Is the Pathway to Nonprofit Funding Success with Storytelling Coach Melissa Reaves
Nonprofit storytelling is imperative. No graph or pie chart can resonate emotionally as deeply as a story. What happened this year with one of the constituents your organziation served that is storyworthy for your annual fundraising drive? HOW do you tell the story that the audience is mesmerized and emotionally hooked to help you with you cause? Learn these skill across your organization to create a storytelling culture and watch your business expand.
Melissa Reaves is an award-winning storyteller and Executive Storytelling Mentor. She guides C-Suite Exectuives, Rising Stars and Founders seeking to raise capital–to infuse the power of storytelling into all of their presentations. Her book, The Storyteller’s Mind Movie, (due out in fall 2022) will show you how to do it effectively using the elements that professioal storytelling artist use–so that your business audiences lean in as you mesmerize and captivate their attention.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Storytelling Is the Pathway to Nonprofit Funding Success with Storytelling Coach Melissa Reaves</h1><p>Nonprofit storytelling is imperative. No graph or pie chart can resonate emotionally as deeply as a story. What happened this year with one of the constituents your organziation served that is storyworthy for your annual fundraising drive? HOW do you tell the story that the audience is mesmerized and emotionally hooked to help you with you cause? Learn these skill across your organization to create a storytelling culture and watch your business expand.</p><p>Melissa Reaves is an award-winning storyteller and Executive Storytelling Mentor. She guides C-Suite Exectuives, Rising Stars and Founders seeking to raise capital–to infuse the power of storytelling into all of their presentations. Her book, The Storyteller’s Mind Movie, (due out in fall 2022) will show you how to do it effectively using the elements that professioal storytelling artist use–so that your business audiences lean in as you mesmerize and captivate their attention.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2232</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[83d148ce-12b0-11ed-92ac-cbd7e75becb7]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8322997999.mp3?updated=1659478785" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why Rotary International Has Provided Four Billion In Grants To Date</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-rotary-international/</link>
      <description>Why Rotary International Has Provided Four Billion In Grants To Date:
Interview with Rotary Club President Martin Mongiello
Be sure to link up with Rotarians as we have 46,000 clubs on earth, 1.4 million members, handed out $160 million per year recently, are 100 out of 100 ranked on CharityNavigator, and have a four-star ranking.
Martin Mongiello holds two Master's degrees because he views himself as a real "Learn it All." As a polymath, Marti has been to the North Pole, was a nuclear submariner for over 20 years, became a White House Chef and Manager of the Camp David Resort and Conference Center, rode white Arabian horses in the desert as well as camels and served in the jungle of the DMZ in Korea to the sands of Arabia in Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom. He makes over ten kids of creme brulee and does an awesome Bill Clinton accent. As the President of the Rotary Club of Global Impact, having lived in Europe and Asia for over five years helps global deals work and jump hurdles few may be experienced enough with. Marti has a Rolodex from the White House to Buckingham Place and beyond that just won't quit bringing integrity to the workplace, ethics, and fairness. As the Chairperson of the Board for the United States Presidential Service Center - he guides their global investment portfolio as part of a $1.6 billion dollar program with Kiva.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2022 19:36:45 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Why Rotary International Has Provided Four Billion In Grants To Date</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Rotary Club President Martin Mongiello</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Why Rotary International Has Provided Four Billion In Grants To Date:
Interview with Rotary Club President Martin Mongiello
Be sure to link up with Rotarians as we have 46,000 clubs on earth, 1.4 million members, handed out $160 million per year recently, are 100 out of 100 ranked on CharityNavigator, and have a four-star ranking.
Martin Mongiello holds two Master's degrees because he views himself as a real "Learn it All." As a polymath, Marti has been to the North Pole, was a nuclear submariner for over 20 years, became a White House Chef and Manager of the Camp David Resort and Conference Center, rode white Arabian horses in the desert as well as camels and served in the jungle of the DMZ in Korea to the sands of Arabia in Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom. He makes over ten kids of creme brulee and does an awesome Bill Clinton accent. As the President of the Rotary Club of Global Impact, having lived in Europe and Asia for over five years helps global deals work and jump hurdles few may be experienced enough with. Marti has a Rolodex from the White House to Buckingham Place and beyond that just won't quit bringing integrity to the workplace, ethics, and fairness. As the Chairperson of the Board for the United States Presidential Service Center - he guides their global investment portfolio as part of a $1.6 billion dollar program with Kiva.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Why Rotary International Has Provided Four Billion In Grants To Date:</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Rotary Club President Martin Mongiello</strong></h1><p>Be sure to link up with Rotarians as we have 46,000 clubs on earth, 1.4 million members, handed out $160 million per year recently, are 100 out of 100 ranked on CharityNavigator, and have a four-star ranking.</p><p><strong>Martin Mongiello</strong> holds two Master's degrees because he views himself as a real "Learn it All." As a polymath, Marti has been to the North Pole, was a nuclear submariner for over 20 years, became a White House Chef and Manager of the Camp David Resort and Conference Center, rode white Arabian horses in the desert as well as camels and served in the jungle of the DMZ in Korea to the sands of Arabia in Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom. He makes over ten kids of creme brulee and does an awesome Bill Clinton accent. As the President of the Rotary Club of Global Impact, having lived in Europe and Asia for over five years helps global deals work and jump hurdles few may be experienced enough with. Marti has a Rolodex from the White House to Buckingham Place and beyond that just won't quit bringing integrity to the workplace, ethics, and fairness. As the Chairperson of the Board for the United States Presidential Service Center - he guides their global investment portfolio as part of a $1.6 billion dollar program with Kiva.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1837</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[0ba76ba8-0d1a-11ed-b9c3-532003fb10f7]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1584810219.mp3?updated=1658864507" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Zero to $1 Million in 60 minutes with Cashflow Cookbook Author, Gordon Stein</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-zero-to-million/</link>
      <description>Zero to $1 Million in 60 minutes with Cashflow Cookbook Author, Gordon Stein
There is tremendous focus on Wellness today. Your members are stressed out like never before and as their leader, they need your help.
Many organizations focus on providing programs around mental health and stress reduction including yoga, counseling, and meditation.
But wouldn't it make sense to help people with their number 1 stress directly? Money.It impacts every aspect of their lives. It is the principle issue in 41% of divorces and 85% of Americans say that their financial stress affects their work. 65% of Americans with children live paycheck to paycheck. 50% of calls to Employee Assistance Programs are about financial issues. And 64% of Americans retire with less than $10,000. Those are all stresses that your members live every day. What can you do to help?
Gordon Stein wrote a book that shows exactly how to free up cash flow to pay down debt in a household to ease the pain. Or apply those freed-up funds to enable a bright financial future, give more to a charity or fund a college education. Simple, practical ideas that anyone can use, with nothing else to buy.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2022 19:18:51 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Zero to $1 Million in 60 minutes with Cashflow Cookbook Author, Gordon Stein</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Claim Your Personal Wealth</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Zero to $1 Million in 60 minutes with Cashflow Cookbook Author, Gordon Stein
There is tremendous focus on Wellness today. Your members are stressed out like never before and as their leader, they need your help.
Many organizations focus on providing programs around mental health and stress reduction including yoga, counseling, and meditation.
But wouldn't it make sense to help people with their number 1 stress directly? Money.It impacts every aspect of their lives. It is the principle issue in 41% of divorces and 85% of Americans say that their financial stress affects their work. 65% of Americans with children live paycheck to paycheck. 50% of calls to Employee Assistance Programs are about financial issues. And 64% of Americans retire with less than $10,000. Those are all stresses that your members live every day. What can you do to help?
Gordon Stein wrote a book that shows exactly how to free up cash flow to pay down debt in a household to ease the pain. Or apply those freed-up funds to enable a bright financial future, give more to a charity or fund a college education. Simple, practical ideas that anyone can use, with nothing else to buy.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Zero to $1 Million in 60 minutes with Cashflow Cookbook Author, Gordon Stein</p><p>There is tremendous focus on Wellness today. Your members are stressed out like never before and as their leader, they need your help.</p><p>Many organizations focus on providing programs around mental health and stress reduction including yoga, counseling, and meditation.</p><p>But wouldn't it make sense to help people with their number 1 stress directly? Money.It impacts every aspect of their lives. It is the principle issue in 41% of divorces and 85% of Americans say that their financial stress affects their work. 65% of Americans with children live paycheck to paycheck. 50% of calls to Employee Assistance Programs are about financial issues. And 64% of Americans retire with less than $10,000. Those are all stresses that your members live every day. What can you do to help?</p><p>Gordon Stein wrote a book that shows exactly how to free up cash flow to pay down debt in a household to ease the pain. Or apply those freed-up funds to enable a bright financial future, give more to a charity or fund a college education. Simple, practical ideas that anyone can use, with nothing else to buy.</p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2208</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2cdcecda-0798-11ed-8e00-ab93a8da4109]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9575091884.mp3?updated=1658258869" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Learn Why Shadow Spotting is Crucial to the Health of Your Organization​!</title>
      <link>https://synervision.kartra.com/page/shadowworkshop</link>
      <description>Learn Why Shadow Spotting is Crucial to the Health of Your Organization​!
Spotting &amp; Intervening With Shadow Dynamics in Groups
Workshop with Dr. David Gruder, Ph.D., DCEP
Clarity about what "shadow" dynamics are and their toxic impacts in businesses, nonprofits, community groups, families, society, and politics. ("Shadow" is a psychological term coined by the extraordinary trailblazing psychologist, Dr. Carl Jung, for the parts of us that we ignore, repress or deny.")
How to spot the telltale signs of 5 key individual, co-created and systems shadow dynamics in groups.
Key questions to ask yourself when you see any of these dynamics happening... before you speak up about them.
Simple ways to quickly help groups get back on track


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Jul 2022 12:09:07 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Learn Why Shadow Spotting is Crucial to the Health of Your Organization​!</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Workshop with Dr David Gruder, Part 1</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn Why Shadow Spotting is Crucial to the Health of Your Organization​!
Spotting &amp; Intervening With Shadow Dynamics in Groups
Workshop with Dr. David Gruder, Ph.D., DCEP
Clarity about what "shadow" dynamics are and their toxic impacts in businesses, nonprofits, community groups, families, society, and politics. ("Shadow" is a psychological term coined by the extraordinary trailblazing psychologist, Dr. Carl Jung, for the parts of us that we ignore, repress or deny.")
How to spot the telltale signs of 5 key individual, co-created and systems shadow dynamics in groups.
Key questions to ask yourself when you see any of these dynamics happening... before you speak up about them.
Simple ways to quickly help groups get back on track


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Learn Why Shadow Spotting is Crucial to the Health of Your Organization​!</p><p>Spotting &amp; Intervening With Shadow Dynamics in Groups</p><p>Workshop with Dr. David Gruder, Ph.D., DCEP</p><p>Clarity about what "shadow" dynamics are and their toxic impacts in businesses, nonprofits, community groups, families, society, and politics. ("Shadow" is a psychological term coined by the extraordinary trailblazing psychologist, Dr. Carl Jung, for the parts of us that we ignore, repress or deny.")</p><p>How to spot the telltale signs of 5 key individual, co-created and systems shadow dynamics in groups.</p><p>Key questions to ask yourself when you see any of these dynamics happening... before you speak up about them.</p><p>Simple ways to quickly help groups get back on track</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2468</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d1287b5a-fc5e-11ec-9d2d-37d48d5ae80e]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8962215326.mp3?updated=1657024773" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Celebrating 300 Episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-episode300/</link>
      <description>Celebrating 300 Episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange

During the past 8 years, we have conducted 300 interviews with some really great people who have shared their wisdom, experiences (both good and bad), and subject matter knowledge to help nonprofit leaders and clergy grow their skill, build higher performing teams, and learn how to attract more revenue to be able to more fully achieve their mission.
This episode will consist of the following SynerVision Leaders in a panel discussion:
Dr. Todd Greer
Dr. Todd Greer is a results-driven developer. Working alongside an individual, team, program, or organization, he partners with them to envision what is possible and shapes the direction to reach this new reality. His life journey has led him through experiences in Politics, Higher Ed, Ministry, Non-profits, Team development, and Startups equipping him to serve leaders and students in a variety of fields. Learning from the strengths of mentors and colleagues, he says, "I been blessed with a holistic focus in the real-world examination of problems for their effective solutions."
Specialties: Talent Development, Ideation and Strategy, Lean Startups, Organizational Leadership and Change, Coaching, and Non-Profit Consulting.
Russell Dennis
Russell David Dennis is a SynerVision WayFinder assisting leaders of nonprofits in running high-performing charities generating enough income to achieve their missions. When you decide to make a difference in the world on your own terms, it is worthwhile to have a conversation with Russell Dennis before you start. His unique blend of experiences, coupled with the business and personal challenges he has overcome, can help you avoid pitfalls that set you back. Focusing on nonprofit difference makers, he provides tools that are easy to access, understand, and implement, that get you results and move you and your organization in the direction you want to go.
Russell has been co-host for The Nonprofit Exchange for multiple episodes and brings valuable wisdom to the program.
Hugh Ballou
Hugh Ballou is a Transformational Leadership Strategist and the Founder and President of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. After forty years of musical conducting experience, he now works as executive coach, process facilitator, trainer, and motivational speaker teaching leaders in many diverse fields the fine-tuned skills employed every day by orchestral conductors. Hugh is the author of ten books on Transformational Leadership and is a recognized expert in working with nonprofit leaders and clergy as well as top leaders in multi-national corporations through his business, SynerVision International, Inc.





Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2022 12:20:13 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Celebrating 300 Episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Panel of Russell Dennis, Todd Greer, and Hugh Ballou</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Celebrating 300 Episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange

During the past 8 years, we have conducted 300 interviews with some really great people who have shared their wisdom, experiences (both good and bad), and subject matter knowledge to help nonprofit leaders and clergy grow their skill, build higher performing teams, and learn how to attract more revenue to be able to more fully achieve their mission.
This episode will consist of the following SynerVision Leaders in a panel discussion:
Dr. Todd Greer
Dr. Todd Greer is a results-driven developer. Working alongside an individual, team, program, or organization, he partners with them to envision what is possible and shapes the direction to reach this new reality. His life journey has led him through experiences in Politics, Higher Ed, Ministry, Non-profits, Team development, and Startups equipping him to serve leaders and students in a variety of fields. Learning from the strengths of mentors and colleagues, he says, "I been blessed with a holistic focus in the real-world examination of problems for their effective solutions."
Specialties: Talent Development, Ideation and Strategy, Lean Startups, Organizational Leadership and Change, Coaching, and Non-Profit Consulting.
Russell Dennis
Russell David Dennis is a SynerVision WayFinder assisting leaders of nonprofits in running high-performing charities generating enough income to achieve their missions. When you decide to make a difference in the world on your own terms, it is worthwhile to have a conversation with Russell Dennis before you start. His unique blend of experiences, coupled with the business and personal challenges he has overcome, can help you avoid pitfalls that set you back. Focusing on nonprofit difference makers, he provides tools that are easy to access, understand, and implement, that get you results and move you and your organization in the direction you want to go.
Russell has been co-host for The Nonprofit Exchange for multiple episodes and brings valuable wisdom to the program.
Hugh Ballou
Hugh Ballou is a Transformational Leadership Strategist and the Founder and President of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. After forty years of musical conducting experience, he now works as executive coach, process facilitator, trainer, and motivational speaker teaching leaders in many diverse fields the fine-tuned skills employed every day by orchestral conductors. Hugh is the author of ten books on Transformational Leadership and is a recognized expert in working with nonprofit leaders and clergy as well as top leaders in multi-national corporations through his business, SynerVision International, Inc.





Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Celebrating 300 Episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange</p><p><br></p><p>During the past 8 years, we have conducted 300 interviews with some really great people who have shared their wisdom, experiences (both good and bad), and subject matter knowledge to help nonprofit leaders and clergy grow their skill, build higher performing teams, and learn how to attract more revenue to be able to more fully achieve their mission.</p><p>This episode will consist of the following SynerVision Leaders in a panel discussion:</p><p>Dr. Todd Greer</p><p>Dr. Todd Greer is a results-driven developer. Working alongside an individual, team, program, or organization, he partners with them to envision what is possible and shapes the direction to reach this new reality. His life journey has led him through experiences in Politics, Higher Ed, Ministry, Non-profits, Team development, and Startups equipping him to serve leaders and students in a variety of fields. Learning from the strengths of mentors and colleagues, he says, "I been blessed with a holistic focus in the real-world examination of problems for their effective solutions."</p><p>Specialties: Talent Development, Ideation and Strategy, Lean Startups, Organizational Leadership and Change, Coaching, and Non-Profit Consulting.</p><p>Russell Dennis</p><p>Russell David Dennis is a SynerVision WayFinder assisting leaders of nonprofits in running high-performing charities generating enough income to achieve their missions. When you decide to make a difference in the world on your own terms, it is worthwhile to have a conversation with Russell Dennis before you start. His unique blend of experiences, coupled with the business and personal challenges he has overcome, can help you avoid pitfalls that set you back. Focusing on nonprofit difference makers, he provides tools that are easy to access, understand, and implement, that get you results and move you and your organization in the direction you want to go.</p><p>Russell has been co-host for The Nonprofit Exchange for multiple episodes and brings valuable wisdom to the program.</p><p>Hugh Ballou</p><p>Hugh Ballou is a Transformational Leadership Strategist and the Founder and President of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. After forty years of musical conducting experience, he now works as executive coach, process facilitator, trainer, and motivational speaker teaching leaders in many diverse fields the fine-tuned skills employed every day by orchestral conductors. Hugh is the author of ten books on Transformational Leadership and is a recognized expert in working with nonprofit leaders and clergy as well as top leaders in multi-national corporations through his business, SynerVision International, Inc.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2440</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6435791969.mp3?updated=1656505548" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Unleashing Digital Innovation to Solve Society’s Biggest Problems</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/unleashing-digital-innovation-to-solve-societys-biggest-problems/</link>
      <description>Unleashing Digital Innovation to Solve Society’s Biggest Problems: Interview with Linc Kroeger
The tech talent shortage gap is the widest in my 35 years – and growing. How
do we turn this around and include everyone in the prosperity?

Strategies to address the skyrocketing costs of college and the lower college

attendance rates of minority and rural populations

Unleashing digital innovation to solve society’s biggest problems

Why does Knight Moves appeal to Native American communities?

Why foundations, nonprofits, and federal grants aren’t making a meaningful

impact to advance racial and place equity

How is Knight Moves unique from traditional code camps?


Linc Kroeger is the President of Knight Moves, a limiting profit company creating the next generation of elite technology professionals through extensive training in technology disciplines, with an intentional focus on including Native American, rural, and urban underserved communities.
Linc’s passion for fighting social inequality led him to leverage his 35 years of enterprise technology experience to create a creative solution to help level the playing field while delivering technology solutions for the world’s most important causes.
Linc served on the Technology Association of Iowa board for three years. He was assigned by Governor Kim Reynolds to her Empower Rural Iowa Task Force and has been identified as “the most innovative leader on bringing tech jobs to rural in the nation” by U.S. Congress member Ro Khanna representing Silicon Valley. He has also been recognized as “Top National Rural Influencer” by The Ruralist and was the USDA Rural Prosperity Tour keynote speaker
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2022 19:23:09 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Unleashing Digital Innovation to Solve Society’s Biggest Problems</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Linc Kroeger</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Unleashing Digital Innovation to Solve Society’s Biggest Problems: Interview with Linc Kroeger
The tech talent shortage gap is the widest in my 35 years – and growing. How
do we turn this around and include everyone in the prosperity?

Strategies to address the skyrocketing costs of college and the lower college

attendance rates of minority and rural populations

Unleashing digital innovation to solve society’s biggest problems

Why does Knight Moves appeal to Native American communities?

Why foundations, nonprofits, and federal grants aren’t making a meaningful

impact to advance racial and place equity

How is Knight Moves unique from traditional code camps?


Linc Kroeger is the President of Knight Moves, a limiting profit company creating the next generation of elite technology professionals through extensive training in technology disciplines, with an intentional focus on including Native American, rural, and urban underserved communities.
Linc’s passion for fighting social inequality led him to leverage his 35 years of enterprise technology experience to create a creative solution to help level the playing field while delivering technology solutions for the world’s most important causes.
Linc served on the Technology Association of Iowa board for three years. He was assigned by Governor Kim Reynolds to her Empower Rural Iowa Task Force and has been identified as “the most innovative leader on bringing tech jobs to rural in the nation” by U.S. Congress member Ro Khanna representing Silicon Valley. He has also been recognized as “Top National Rural Influencer” by The Ruralist and was the USDA Rural Prosperity Tour keynote speaker
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Unleashing Digital Innovation to Solve Society’s Biggest Problems: Interview with Linc Kroeger</h1><p>The tech talent shortage gap is the widest in my 35 years – and growing. How</p><p>do we turn this around and include everyone in the prosperity?</p><ul>
<li>Strategies to address the skyrocketing costs of college and the lower college</li>
<li>attendance rates of minority and rural populations</li>
<li>Unleashing digital innovation to solve society’s biggest problems</li>
<li>Why does Knight Moves appeal to Native American communities?</li>
<li>Why foundations, nonprofits, and federal grants aren’t making a meaningful</li>
<li>impact to advance racial and place equity</li>
<li>How is Knight Moves unique from traditional code camps?</li>
</ul><p><br></p><p>Linc Kroeger is the President of Knight Moves, a limiting profit company creating the next generation of elite technology professionals through extensive training in technology disciplines, with an intentional focus on including Native American, rural, and urban underserved communities.</p><p>Linc’s passion for fighting social inequality led him to leverage his 35 years of enterprise technology experience to create a creative solution to help level the playing field while delivering technology solutions for the world’s most important causes.</p><p>Linc served on the Technology Association of Iowa board for three years. He was assigned by Governor Kim Reynolds to her Empower Rural Iowa Task Force and has been identified as “the most innovative leader on bringing tech jobs to rural in the nation” by U.S. Congress member Ro Khanna representing Silicon Valley. He has also been recognized as “Top National Rural Influencer” by The Ruralist and was the USDA Rural Prosperity Tour keynote speaker</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1845</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>What's So Scary About Asking For Money?</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/whats-so-scary-about-asking-for-money/</link>
      <description>What's So Scary About Asking For Money?
Interview with Susan Kahan
Fundraising is a necessary part of any nonprofit organization. There is an art and a science to it, and at the end of the day, it is about building relationships with your donors and giving them an opportunity to support the cause you all care so much about
With more than a decade of working in the nonprofit sector, Susan Kahan is passionate about the power of philanthropy and helping organizations meet and exceed their goals to fulfill their missions. Based in Chicago, Susan has experience working with major gifts, mid-level donors, planned giving, capital campaigns, and creating and executing fundraising strategies and events.
Beyond Chicago, Susan has worked across the Midwest, New England, and the Mid-Atlantic, and she brings her knowledge and expertise from these special communities to each of her current projects and clients. A relationship builder and people connector, Susan was also involved in grassroots political mobilizations and encouraging citizens to get involved in the political process with their voice and their financial support.
Prior to founding Sapphire Fundraising Specialists, Susan held fundraising and management roles at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Susan graduated from the George Washington University in Washington, DC with a major in Communication and a double minor in Political Science and Business Administration.
More information at https://www.sapphirefundraisingspecialists.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2022 20:09:53 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>What's So Scary About Asking For Money?</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Susan Kahan</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>What's So Scary About Asking For Money?
Interview with Susan Kahan
Fundraising is a necessary part of any nonprofit organization. There is an art and a science to it, and at the end of the day, it is about building relationships with your donors and giving them an opportunity to support the cause you all care so much about
With more than a decade of working in the nonprofit sector, Susan Kahan is passionate about the power of philanthropy and helping organizations meet and exceed their goals to fulfill their missions. Based in Chicago, Susan has experience working with major gifts, mid-level donors, planned giving, capital campaigns, and creating and executing fundraising strategies and events.
Beyond Chicago, Susan has worked across the Midwest, New England, and the Mid-Atlantic, and she brings her knowledge and expertise from these special communities to each of her current projects and clients. A relationship builder and people connector, Susan was also involved in grassroots political mobilizations and encouraging citizens to get involved in the political process with their voice and their financial support.
Prior to founding Sapphire Fundraising Specialists, Susan held fundraising and management roles at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Susan graduated from the George Washington University in Washington, DC with a major in Communication and a double minor in Political Science and Business Administration.
More information at https://www.sapphirefundraisingspecialists.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>What's So Scary About Asking For Money?</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Susan Kahan</strong></h1><p>Fundraising is a necessary part of any nonprofit organization. There is an art and a science to it, and at the end of the day, it is about building relationships with your donors and giving them an opportunity to support the cause you all care so much about</p><p>With more than a decade of working in the nonprofit sector, <strong>Susan Kahan</strong> is passionate about the power of philanthropy and helping organizations meet and exceed their goals to fulfill their missions. Based in Chicago, Susan has experience working with major gifts, mid-level donors, planned giving, capital campaigns, and creating and executing fundraising strategies and events.</p><p>Beyond Chicago, Susan has worked across the Midwest, New England, and the Mid-Atlantic, and she brings her knowledge and expertise from these special communities to each of her current projects and clients. A relationship builder and people connector, Susan was also involved in grassroots political mobilizations and encouraging citizens to get involved in the political process with their voice and their financial support.</p><p>Prior to founding Sapphire Fundraising Specialists, Susan held fundraising and management roles at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Susan graduated from the George Washington University in Washington, DC with a major in Communication and a double minor in Political Science and Business Administration.</p><p>More information at <a href="https://www.sapphirefundraisingspecialists.com/"><strong>https://www.sapphirefundraisingspecialists.com/</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2112</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Assessing and Intentionally Developing High Levels of Trusted Leadership</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-trusted-leadership/</link>
      <description>Assessing and Intentionally Developing High Levels of Trusted Leadership:
Interview with Dr. Tory Travis
Research reveals that trusted leadership is the #1 indicator of successful nonprofit organizations and ministries. Thus, the intentional and purposeful assessment of trust, ongoing development of trust, and repairing trust are critical for nonprofit leaders.
Dr. Tory Travis is the founder of TrustED, a framework for business, organization, and school improvement focused on developing trusted leaders. In addition, he is an Executive Consultant with the Global School Consulting Group, an Adjunct Professor for the International Graduate Program of Educators for the State University of New York College at Buffalo, and an experienced teacher and school administrator, currently serving as the Superintendent of the Village Christian Academy in Fayetteville, NC.
As a guest speaker, trainer, and consultant, his work has taken him throughout the United States and Europe, South Asia, Central, and South America.
Dr. Travis is the author of the award-winning book “TrustED: The Bridge to School Improvement” - available on Amazon, featured in Forbes, named “Book of The Month” (November), and nominated for “Book of The Year” (2021) by The Magic Pen.
 
Learn more at https://trustedconsulting.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2022 01:09:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Assessing and Intentionally Developing High Levels of Trusted Leadership</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dr. Tory Travis</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Assessing and Intentionally Developing High Levels of Trusted Leadership:
Interview with Dr. Tory Travis
Research reveals that trusted leadership is the #1 indicator of successful nonprofit organizations and ministries. Thus, the intentional and purposeful assessment of trust, ongoing development of trust, and repairing trust are critical for nonprofit leaders.
Dr. Tory Travis is the founder of TrustED, a framework for business, organization, and school improvement focused on developing trusted leaders. In addition, he is an Executive Consultant with the Global School Consulting Group, an Adjunct Professor for the International Graduate Program of Educators for the State University of New York College at Buffalo, and an experienced teacher and school administrator, currently serving as the Superintendent of the Village Christian Academy in Fayetteville, NC.
As a guest speaker, trainer, and consultant, his work has taken him throughout the United States and Europe, South Asia, Central, and South America.
Dr. Travis is the author of the award-winning book “TrustED: The Bridge to School Improvement” - available on Amazon, featured in Forbes, named “Book of The Month” (November), and nominated for “Book of The Year” (2021) by The Magic Pen.
 
Learn more at https://trustedconsulting.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Assessing and Intentionally Developing High Levels of Trusted Leadership:</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Dr. Tory Travis</strong></h1><p>Research reveals that trusted leadership is the #1 indicator of successful nonprofit organizations and ministries. Thus, the intentional and purposeful assessment of trust, ongoing development of trust, and repairing trust are critical for nonprofit leaders.</p><p><strong>Dr. Tory Travis</strong> is the founder of TrustED, a framework for business, organization, and school improvement focused on developing trusted leaders. In addition, he is an Executive Consultant with the Global School Consulting Group, an Adjunct Professor for the International Graduate Program of Educators for the State University of New York College at Buffalo, and an experienced teacher and school administrator, currently serving as the Superintendent of the Village Christian Academy in Fayetteville, NC.</p><p>As a guest speaker, trainer, and consultant, his work has taken him throughout the United States and Europe, South Asia, Central, and South America.</p><p>Dr. Travis is the author of the award-winning book “TrustED: The Bridge to School Improvement” - available on Amazon, featured in Forbes, named “Book of The Month” (November), and nominated for “Book of The Year” (2021) by The Magic Pen.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more at <a href="https://trustedconsulting.org/"><strong>https://trustedconsulting.org</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2341</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Ending Human Trafficking Through Increasing Community Awareness</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/ending-human-trafficking/</link>
      <description>Ending Human Trafficking Through Increasing Community Awareness &amp; Prevention Education (CAPE)
Organization: Rotary Action Group Against Slavery

Every leader has a network they have built over their lifetime. I firmly believe God is calling His church to end human trafficking by mobilizing them where they are to learn more about human trafficking and help elevate Community Awareness and activate the networks God has given them to help implement Prevention Education thereby starting a CAPE plan for their community. This is done through leveraging networks, creating stakeholder partnerships, and helping them achieve their mission.
I see this happening through churches and community organizations such as Rotary International.
With an estimated &lt;1% of trafficking cases properly reported and tracked, an aware community, empowered and equipped with the tools to report cases will increase opportunities to root out this evil and help the victims. A community with Prevention Education in the schools will also be less of a target for traffickers when they are scouting for potential victims.
The combination of Community Awareness &amp; Prevention Education is key to preventing human trafficking. It is not the end, but the beginning of the end.

Amelia J. Stansell
Amelia Stansell, DGND District 7610, President-Elect of the Rotary Club of Warrenton, a mother, and a Senior Commercial Loan Officer with UVA Community Credit Union.
In 2017 Amelia attended the Atlanta Rotary International Convention where Human Trafficking was a major topic. In 2017 Amelia felt the call to invite a speaker to her Rotary Club to talk about Sex Trafficking. Little did she know then, that was just the beginning of her journey with the topic. On that August day, with the support of her Rotary Club, she formed the Fauquier Anti Sex Trafficking Alliance (FASTA). The FASTA mission is “to inoculate our community through awareness and prevention education, and supporting survivors and their families when we fail. [They] are an alliance of community organizations, agencies, and individuals working toward this common goal.”
Through this group, she works to create community awareness through a series of Community Conversations with partners such as Anti-Trafficking International, Reset 180, Fauquier County Sheriff’s Office, Homeland Security Investigations and the FBI. These forums are held in middle schools and churches since 2018.
Amelia joined the Rotary Action Group Against Slavery after speaking at the 2019 Rotary International Convention in Hamburg, Germany. She serves as the State Coordinator for Virginia. In 2021 she had the opportunity to facilitate the RAGAS Community Awareness &amp; Prevention Education (CAPE) Strategic Action Plan and has spent the past year sharing it with clubs and districts around the world. We are honored to have her here today as she shares about Human Trafficking Globally, nationally as well as locally, and how we as Rotarians can unleash our inner superpowers to be superheroes in their community by starting a Community Awareness &amp; Prevention Education project through the Rotary Action Group Against Slavery.
Outside of Rotary Amelia enjoys gardening, volunteering, and traveling. She and her husband are on a mission in 50 countries and 50 states before the age of 50. She is currently in 30 countries and 46 states and has 6 years to go if you want to do the math on her age. They live in Warrenton with their daughters Amelia Grace and Bitsy and their crazy orange tabby cat, Butchie.
For more information about the Rotary initiative, go to - https://ragas.online
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2022 18:54:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Ending Human Trafficking Through Increasing Community Awareness</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Rotary Action Group Against Slavery</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Ending Human Trafficking Through Increasing Community Awareness &amp; Prevention Education (CAPE)
Organization: Rotary Action Group Against Slavery

Every leader has a network they have built over their lifetime. I firmly believe God is calling His church to end human trafficking by mobilizing them where they are to learn more about human trafficking and help elevate Community Awareness and activate the networks God has given them to help implement Prevention Education thereby starting a CAPE plan for their community. This is done through leveraging networks, creating stakeholder partnerships, and helping them achieve their mission.
I see this happening through churches and community organizations such as Rotary International.
With an estimated &lt;1% of trafficking cases properly reported and tracked, an aware community, empowered and equipped with the tools to report cases will increase opportunities to root out this evil and help the victims. A community with Prevention Education in the schools will also be less of a target for traffickers when they are scouting for potential victims.
The combination of Community Awareness &amp; Prevention Education is key to preventing human trafficking. It is not the end, but the beginning of the end.

Amelia J. Stansell
Amelia Stansell, DGND District 7610, President-Elect of the Rotary Club of Warrenton, a mother, and a Senior Commercial Loan Officer with UVA Community Credit Union.
In 2017 Amelia attended the Atlanta Rotary International Convention where Human Trafficking was a major topic. In 2017 Amelia felt the call to invite a speaker to her Rotary Club to talk about Sex Trafficking. Little did she know then, that was just the beginning of her journey with the topic. On that August day, with the support of her Rotary Club, she formed the Fauquier Anti Sex Trafficking Alliance (FASTA). The FASTA mission is “to inoculate our community through awareness and prevention education, and supporting survivors and their families when we fail. [They] are an alliance of community organizations, agencies, and individuals working toward this common goal.”
Through this group, she works to create community awareness through a series of Community Conversations with partners such as Anti-Trafficking International, Reset 180, Fauquier County Sheriff’s Office, Homeland Security Investigations and the FBI. These forums are held in middle schools and churches since 2018.
Amelia joined the Rotary Action Group Against Slavery after speaking at the 2019 Rotary International Convention in Hamburg, Germany. She serves as the State Coordinator for Virginia. In 2021 she had the opportunity to facilitate the RAGAS Community Awareness &amp; Prevention Education (CAPE) Strategic Action Plan and has spent the past year sharing it with clubs and districts around the world. We are honored to have her here today as she shares about Human Trafficking Globally, nationally as well as locally, and how we as Rotarians can unleash our inner superpowers to be superheroes in their community by starting a Community Awareness &amp; Prevention Education project through the Rotary Action Group Against Slavery.
Outside of Rotary Amelia enjoys gardening, volunteering, and traveling. She and her husband are on a mission in 50 countries and 50 states before the age of 50. She is currently in 30 countries and 46 states and has 6 years to go if you want to do the math on her age. They live in Warrenton with their daughters Amelia Grace and Bitsy and their crazy orange tabby cat, Butchie.
For more information about the Rotary initiative, go to - https://ragas.online
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Ending Human Trafficking Through Increasing Community Awareness &amp; Prevention Education (CAPE)</strong></h1><h2><strong>Organization: Rotary Action Group Against Slavery</strong></h2><p><br></p><p>Every leader has a network they have built over their lifetime. I firmly believe God is calling His church to end human trafficking by mobilizing them where they are to learn more about human trafficking and help elevate Community Awareness and activate the networks God has given them to help implement Prevention Education thereby starting a CAPE plan for their community. This is done through leveraging networks, creating stakeholder partnerships, and helping them achieve their mission.</p><p>I see this happening through churches and community organizations such as Rotary International.</p><p>With an estimated &lt;1% of trafficking cases properly reported and tracked, an aware community, empowered and equipped with the tools to report cases will increase opportunities to root out this evil and help the victims. A community with Prevention Education in the schools will also be less of a target for traffickers when they are scouting for potential victims.</p><p>The combination of Community Awareness &amp; Prevention Education is key to preventing human trafficking. It is not the end, but the beginning of the end.</p><p><br></p><p>Amelia J. Stansell</p><p>Amelia Stansell, DGND District 7610, President-Elect of the Rotary Club of Warrenton, a mother, and a Senior Commercial Loan Officer with UVA Community Credit Union.</p><p>In 2017 Amelia attended the Atlanta Rotary International Convention where Human Trafficking was a major topic. In 2017 Amelia felt the call to invite a speaker to her Rotary Club to talk about Sex Trafficking. Little did she know then, that was just the beginning of her journey with the topic. On that August day, with the support of her Rotary Club, she formed the Fauquier Anti Sex Trafficking Alliance (FASTA). The FASTA mission is “to inoculate our community through awareness and prevention education, and supporting survivors and their families when we fail. [They] are an alliance of community organizations, agencies, and individuals working toward this common goal.”</p><p>Through this group, she works to create community awareness through a series of Community Conversations with partners such as Anti-Trafficking International, Reset 180, Fauquier County Sheriff’s Office, Homeland Security Investigations and the FBI. These forums are held in middle schools and churches since 2018.</p><p>Amelia joined the Rotary Action Group Against Slavery after speaking at the 2019 Rotary International Convention in Hamburg, Germany. She serves as the State Coordinator for Virginia. In 2021 she had the opportunity to facilitate the RAGAS Community Awareness &amp; Prevention Education (CAPE) Strategic Action Plan and has spent the past year sharing it with clubs and districts around the world. We are honored to have her here today as she shares about Human Trafficking Globally, nationally as well as locally, and how we as Rotarians can unleash our inner superpowers to be superheroes in their community by starting a Community Awareness &amp; Prevention Education project through the Rotary Action Group Against Slavery.</p><p>Outside of Rotary Amelia enjoys gardening, volunteering, and traveling. She and her husband are on a mission in 50 countries and 50 states before the age of 50. She is currently in 30 countries and 46 states and has 6 years to go if you want to do the math on her age. They live in Warrenton with their daughters Amelia Grace and Bitsy and their crazy orange tabby cat, Butchie.</p><p>For more information about the Rotary initiative, go to - https://ragas.online</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1698</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Hero's Journey: Interview with Robert Althuis</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/the-heros-journey/</link>
      <description>The Hero's Journey:
Interview with Robert Althuis
We typically believe "intelligence" only resides in our mind; however, as the HearthMath Institute has scientifically proven our heart is actually also a center of intelligence including a vast network of neurons. In fact, there's more data going from our heart to our mind than the other way around. The intelligence of our heart is of a different quality though. Whereas our mind's intelligence resides in logic and linear thinking which all comes from our neocortex, our heart is the portal to our higher knowing or the intelligence of life itself. We access this intelligence through mastery of the language of the heart which is feeling, sensing, knowing (vs thinking), and intuiting. When our heart becomes the master and our mind an instrument in service to the master we come to a new level of understanding, insight, and solutions which makes us more awakened leaders.
Robert Althuis is the Founder of the Sacred Wealth Institute, a mindfulness organization that provides coaching, strategies, tools, and techniques to help private clients and businesses embody their full potential. In addition, Mr. Althuis is the founder of Wayfare Holdings, a boutique impact investment firm for his personal real estate and entrepreneurial interests.
Mr. Althuis is also a Venture Partner at Keen Growth Capital, an impact investment private equity firm based in Orlando, and serves as an Advisory Board Member for Bulltick’s alternative investments real estate fund. In 2021, Mr. Althuis published his first book titled Never Enoughitis.
Mr. Althuis launched Wayfare in early 2009 with the acquisition of a 50% ownership position in Lynxs, a leading international transportation infrastructure development firm based in Austin, Texas. Prior to acquiring an ownership position in Lynxs, Mr. Althuis was a Senior Vice President in the Airport Infrastructure group of GE Capital Aviation Services (GECAS). At GECAS, Mr. Althuis served as the lead originator for the Americas Region of the Airport Infrastructure group and was instrumental in structuring Global Infrastructure Partners, a then $6 billion infrastructure investment fund sponsored by GE and Credit Suisse as well as the acquisition of numerous operating companies and real assets on behalf of GECAS where he also served as a board member on behalf of GE. Mr. Althuis started his career at GE Capital in an executive management program in 2002 and joined GECAS on a full-time basis in 2003 and was promoted to GE’s executive band in 2006. In his initial role in GECAS, as a member of the structured finance team, Mr. Althuis closed in excess of $1.5 billion of aviation-related debt and equity financings.
Mr. Althuis, who has dual nationality from The Netherlands and the United States, holds a B.B.A., summa cum laude, with a major in Real Estate from Georgia State University in Atlanta, Georgia, and an M.B.A., with distinction, with a major in Finance &amp; Management from Columbia Business School in New York City. In addition, Mr. Althuis is a certified member of the CCIM Institute and a licensed real estate broker in three states. Mr. Althuis began his career in commercial real estate acquisition and development in 1995; his last position before joining GE was Vice President and Division Manager of the commercial real estate activities of a diversified real estate firm in Atlanta, Georgia.
Mr. Althuis resides in Coral Gables, Florida, and is a father, artist, avid yogi (RYT-200), kite surfer, crossfit athlete, and an active dive volunteer with the Coral Restoration Foundation in the Florida Keys where he previously served as a Board Member.
For more information about Robert Althuis and his work, go to https://www.robertalthuis.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2022 18:59:48 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Hero's Journey: Interview with Robert Althuis</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Never Enoughitis </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Hero's Journey:
Interview with Robert Althuis
We typically believe "intelligence" only resides in our mind; however, as the HearthMath Institute has scientifically proven our heart is actually also a center of intelligence including a vast network of neurons. In fact, there's more data going from our heart to our mind than the other way around. The intelligence of our heart is of a different quality though. Whereas our mind's intelligence resides in logic and linear thinking which all comes from our neocortex, our heart is the portal to our higher knowing or the intelligence of life itself. We access this intelligence through mastery of the language of the heart which is feeling, sensing, knowing (vs thinking), and intuiting. When our heart becomes the master and our mind an instrument in service to the master we come to a new level of understanding, insight, and solutions which makes us more awakened leaders.
Robert Althuis is the Founder of the Sacred Wealth Institute, a mindfulness organization that provides coaching, strategies, tools, and techniques to help private clients and businesses embody their full potential. In addition, Mr. Althuis is the founder of Wayfare Holdings, a boutique impact investment firm for his personal real estate and entrepreneurial interests.
Mr. Althuis is also a Venture Partner at Keen Growth Capital, an impact investment private equity firm based in Orlando, and serves as an Advisory Board Member for Bulltick’s alternative investments real estate fund. In 2021, Mr. Althuis published his first book titled Never Enoughitis.
Mr. Althuis launched Wayfare in early 2009 with the acquisition of a 50% ownership position in Lynxs, a leading international transportation infrastructure development firm based in Austin, Texas. Prior to acquiring an ownership position in Lynxs, Mr. Althuis was a Senior Vice President in the Airport Infrastructure group of GE Capital Aviation Services (GECAS). At GECAS, Mr. Althuis served as the lead originator for the Americas Region of the Airport Infrastructure group and was instrumental in structuring Global Infrastructure Partners, a then $6 billion infrastructure investment fund sponsored by GE and Credit Suisse as well as the acquisition of numerous operating companies and real assets on behalf of GECAS where he also served as a board member on behalf of GE. Mr. Althuis started his career at GE Capital in an executive management program in 2002 and joined GECAS on a full-time basis in 2003 and was promoted to GE’s executive band in 2006. In his initial role in GECAS, as a member of the structured finance team, Mr. Althuis closed in excess of $1.5 billion of aviation-related debt and equity financings.
Mr. Althuis, who has dual nationality from The Netherlands and the United States, holds a B.B.A., summa cum laude, with a major in Real Estate from Georgia State University in Atlanta, Georgia, and an M.B.A., with distinction, with a major in Finance &amp; Management from Columbia Business School in New York City. In addition, Mr. Althuis is a certified member of the CCIM Institute and a licensed real estate broker in three states. Mr. Althuis began his career in commercial real estate acquisition and development in 1995; his last position before joining GE was Vice President and Division Manager of the commercial real estate activities of a diversified real estate firm in Atlanta, Georgia.
Mr. Althuis resides in Coral Gables, Florida, and is a father, artist, avid yogi (RYT-200), kite surfer, crossfit athlete, and an active dive volunteer with the Coral Restoration Foundation in the Florida Keys where he previously served as a Board Member.
For more information about Robert Althuis and his work, go to https://www.robertalthuis.com
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      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>The Hero's Journey:</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Robert Althuis</strong></h1><p>We typically believe "intelligence" only resides in our mind; however, as the HearthMath Institute has scientifically proven our heart is actually also a center of intelligence including a vast network of neurons. In fact, there's more data going from our heart to our mind than the other way around. The intelligence of our heart is of a different quality though. Whereas our mind's intelligence resides in logic and linear thinking which all comes from our neocortex, our heart is the portal to our higher knowing or the intelligence of life itself. We access this intelligence through mastery of the language of the heart which is feeling, sensing, knowing (vs thinking), and intuiting. When our heart becomes the master and our mind an instrument in service to the master we come to a new level of understanding, insight, and solutions which makes us more awakened leaders.</p><p><strong>Robert Althuis</strong> is the Founder of the Sacred Wealth Institute, a mindfulness organization that provides coaching, strategies, tools, and techniques to help private clients and businesses embody their full potential. In addition, Mr. Althuis is the founder of Wayfare Holdings, a boutique impact investment firm for his personal real estate and entrepreneurial interests.</p><p>Mr. Althuis is also a Venture Partner at Keen Growth Capital, an impact investment private equity firm based in Orlando, and serves as an Advisory Board Member for Bulltick’s alternative investments real estate fund. In 2021, Mr. Althuis published his first book titled <strong><em>Never Enoughitis</em></strong>.</p><p>Mr. Althuis launched Wayfare in early 2009 with the acquisition of a 50% ownership position in Lynxs, a leading international transportation infrastructure development firm based in Austin, Texas. Prior to acquiring an ownership position in Lynxs, Mr. Althuis was a Senior Vice President in the Airport Infrastructure group of GE Capital Aviation Services (GECAS). At GECAS, Mr. Althuis served as the lead originator for the Americas Region of the Airport Infrastructure group and was instrumental in structuring Global Infrastructure Partners, a then $6 billion infrastructure investment fund sponsored by GE and Credit Suisse as well as the acquisition of numerous operating companies and real assets on behalf of GECAS where he also served as a board member on behalf of GE. Mr. Althuis started his career at GE Capital in an executive management program in 2002 and joined GECAS on a full-time basis in 2003 and was promoted to GE’s executive band in 2006. In his initial role in GECAS, as a member of the structured finance team, Mr. Althuis closed in excess of $1.5 billion of aviation-related debt and equity financings.</p><p>Mr. Althuis, who has dual nationality from The Netherlands and the United States, holds a B.B.A., summa cum laude, with a major in Real Estate from Georgia State University in Atlanta, Georgia, and an M.B.A., with distinction, with a major in Finance &amp; Management from Columbia Business School in New York City. In addition, Mr. Althuis is a certified member of the CCIM Institute and a licensed real estate broker in three states. Mr. Althuis began his career in commercial real estate acquisition and development in 1995; his last position before joining GE was Vice President and Division Manager of the commercial real estate activities of a diversified real estate firm in Atlanta, Georgia.</p><p>Mr. Althuis resides in Coral Gables, Florida, and is a father, artist, avid yogi (RYT-200), kite surfer, crossfit athlete, and an active dive volunteer with the Coral Restoration Foundation in the Florida Keys where he previously served as a Board Member.</p><p>For more information about Robert Althuis and his work, go to <a href="https://www.robertalthuis.com/"><strong>https://www.robertalthuis.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2060</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8923932113.mp3?updated=1653421805" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Pioneering Leadership: The New Frontier for Leaders</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/pioneering-leadership-the-new-frontier-for-leaders/</link>
      <description>Pioneering Leadership: The New Frontier for Leaders
There is a lot being asked of Leaders, especially at this time of human evolution. There is so much uncertainty where old paradigms are just not enough for the changing times. It’s an exciting time to explore what is needed for our future and what legacy we will leave in the following generations.
Linda Conyard is Australia's leading pioneer advocating for socio-political trauma-sensitive change and informed responsiveness to UNnecessary trauma in the Health, Education, Justice, Government, and Private sectors. She recognizes the transgenerational effect collective trauma has on our current society and is at the leading edge of healing and transformation in this field.
Linda’s daughter's trauma at the very young age of 6 months was from a diagnosis of rare childhood cancer that affects the retina in the eye (she survived and was left totally blind by the age of 3) and the unfolding recognition of her own significant and long term childhood trauma from living in hidden domestic violence led her to her studies and subsequently her own trauma recovery. She became the therapist she wished she could have found. She is determined to change the trajectory of trauma on a collective, cultural, community, family, and individual level and eliminate all UNnecessary trauma through education and training in trauma sensitivity.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2022 15:31:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Pioneering Leadership: The New Frontier for Leaders</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Linda Conyard</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Pioneering Leadership: The New Frontier for Leaders
There is a lot being asked of Leaders, especially at this time of human evolution. There is so much uncertainty where old paradigms are just not enough for the changing times. It’s an exciting time to explore what is needed for our future and what legacy we will leave in the following generations.
Linda Conyard is Australia's leading pioneer advocating for socio-political trauma-sensitive change and informed responsiveness to UNnecessary trauma in the Health, Education, Justice, Government, and Private sectors. She recognizes the transgenerational effect collective trauma has on our current society and is at the leading edge of healing and transformation in this field.
Linda’s daughter's trauma at the very young age of 6 months was from a diagnosis of rare childhood cancer that affects the retina in the eye (she survived and was left totally blind by the age of 3) and the unfolding recognition of her own significant and long term childhood trauma from living in hidden domestic violence led her to her studies and subsequently her own trauma recovery. She became the therapist she wished she could have found. She is determined to change the trajectory of trauma on a collective, cultural, community, family, and individual level and eliminate all UNnecessary trauma through education and training in trauma sensitivity.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Pioneering Leadership: The New Frontier for Leaders</strong></h1><p>There is a lot being asked of Leaders, especially at this time of human evolution. There is so much uncertainty where old paradigms are just not enough for the changing times. It’s an exciting time to explore what is needed for our future and what legacy we will leave in the following generations.</p><p><strong>Linda Conyard</strong> is Australia's leading pioneer advocating for socio-political trauma-sensitive change and informed responsiveness to UNnecessary trauma in the Health, Education, Justice, Government, and Private sectors. She recognizes the transgenerational effect collective trauma has on our current society and is at the leading edge of healing and transformation in this field.</p><p>Linda’s daughter's trauma at the very young age of 6 months was from a diagnosis of rare childhood cancer that affects the retina in the eye (she survived and was left totally blind by the age of 3) and the unfolding recognition of her own significant and long term childhood trauma from living in hidden domestic violence led her to her studies and subsequently her own trauma recovery. She became the therapist she wished she could have found. She is determined to change the trajectory of trauma on a collective, cultural, community, family, and individual level and eliminate all UNnecessary trauma through education and training in trauma sensitivity.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2001</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[077c1742-d852-11ec-a24a-734413cd48ac]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5045384367.mp3?updated=1653061037" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>Engaging Local Communities and Driving Civic Engagement </title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/driving-civic-engagement/</link>
      <description>Engaging Local Communities and Driving Civic Engagement 
How nonprofits can engage local communities to help make a positive change and increase civic engagement

Nonprofit leaders are able to go out and engage communities in ways that can help galvanize the public into improving their city or town. Nonprofits can dedicate their time to fighting for a cause that the local population is passionate about and ultimately bring about positive change in their communities. In the case of the Center for Election Science, the organization engaged with the community in Fargo and St. Louis and helped them improve their local democratic process through approval voting, which can make the local population feel more involved.

Aaron Hamlin is the Executive Director and Co-Founder of the Center for Election Science, a non-profit organization that works to get the approved voting system implemented in cities across the United States. Since 2018, Aaron and his team have engaged voters in both Fargo, North Dakota, and St. Louis, Missouri to get approval voting passed and empower citizens with a stronger democracy.
More about the Center for Election Science - https://electionscience.org
For nonprofit leadership resources - https://www.aaronhamlin.com
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2022 20:01:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Engaging Local Communities and Driving Civic Engagement </itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Aaron Hamlin</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Engaging Local Communities and Driving Civic Engagement 
How nonprofits can engage local communities to help make a positive change and increase civic engagement

Nonprofit leaders are able to go out and engage communities in ways that can help galvanize the public into improving their city or town. Nonprofits can dedicate their time to fighting for a cause that the local population is passionate about and ultimately bring about positive change in their communities. In the case of the Center for Election Science, the organization engaged with the community in Fargo and St. Louis and helped them improve their local democratic process through approval voting, which can make the local population feel more involved.

Aaron Hamlin is the Executive Director and Co-Founder of the Center for Election Science, a non-profit organization that works to get the approved voting system implemented in cities across the United States. Since 2018, Aaron and his team have engaged voters in both Fargo, North Dakota, and St. Louis, Missouri to get approval voting passed and empower citizens with a stronger democracy.
More about the Center for Election Science - https://electionscience.org
For nonprofit leadership resources - https://www.aaronhamlin.com
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Engaging Local Communities and Driving Civic Engagement </strong></h1><h2><strong>How nonprofits can engage local communities to help make a positive change and increase civic engagement</strong></h2><p><br></p><p>Nonprofit leaders are able to go out and engage communities in ways that can help galvanize the public into improving their city or town. Nonprofits can dedicate their time to fighting for a cause that the local population is passionate about and ultimately bring about positive change in their communities. In the case of the Center for Election Science, the organization engaged with the community in Fargo and St. Louis and helped them improve their local democratic process through approval voting, which can make the local population feel more involved.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Aaron Hamlin</strong> is the Executive Director and Co-Founder of the Center for Election Science, a non-profit organization that works to get the approved voting system implemented in cities across the United States. Since 2018, Aaron and his team have engaged voters in both Fargo, North Dakota, and St. Louis, Missouri to get approval voting passed and empower citizens with a stronger democracy.</p><p>More about the Center for Election Science - <a href="https://electionscience.org/"><strong>https://electionscience.org</strong></a></p><p>For nonprofit leadership resources - <a href="https://www.aaronhamlin.com/"><strong>https://www.aaronhamlin.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1830</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[33d832c0-d09c-11ec-b0df-1383559cb0e7]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9294921079.mp3?updated=1652213285" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>An Education Path to a Brilliant Future: Interview with Jay Levin</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/education-path/</link>
      <description>An Education Path to a Brilliant Future:
Interview with Jay Levin
Why training the next generation in emotional intelligence is a tremendous way to double down on your missions. and goals
We find that our mission is the mission of most nonprofits, which is to heal what is wounded and open pathways to unfold more universal well-being. that cares for all and ends the misery of many from familiar societal issues. We support a movement that can change an entire direction and has the potential to diminish dramatically eons of human pain and conflict. We encourage mutual support among nonprofits and causes.
Jay Levin is best known as the founder and former editor-in-chief and CEO of the Los Angeles Weekly, which under his editorial, business, and sales/marketing leadership became the largest circulation and most advertising-rich weekly newspaper in the country while winning numerous journalism awards. He has led six media companies and, as a social entrepreneur, has started six nonprofits. His current nonprofit focus is on transformational learning that will have profound positive effects on human affairs and the creativity and skills needed to keep up with a rapidly changing world.
More about Equip Our Kids at https://equipourkids.org
﻿Do "Any One Thing" https://equipourkids.org/social-emotional-learning-one-thing/
Jay's Lecture "HOW AND WHY WE ARE WHO WE ARE" https://youtu.be/27KBmYVjz4I

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2022 19:02:17 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>An Education Path to a Brilliant Future: Interview with Jay Levin</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Why training the next generation in emotional intelligence is a tremendous way to double down on your missions. and goals</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>An Education Path to a Brilliant Future:
Interview with Jay Levin
Why training the next generation in emotional intelligence is a tremendous way to double down on your missions. and goals
We find that our mission is the mission of most nonprofits, which is to heal what is wounded and open pathways to unfold more universal well-being. that cares for all and ends the misery of many from familiar societal issues. We support a movement that can change an entire direction and has the potential to diminish dramatically eons of human pain and conflict. We encourage mutual support among nonprofits and causes.
Jay Levin is best known as the founder and former editor-in-chief and CEO of the Los Angeles Weekly, which under his editorial, business, and sales/marketing leadership became the largest circulation and most advertising-rich weekly newspaper in the country while winning numerous journalism awards. He has led six media companies and, as a social entrepreneur, has started six nonprofits. His current nonprofit focus is on transformational learning that will have profound positive effects on human affairs and the creativity and skills needed to keep up with a rapidly changing world.
More about Equip Our Kids at https://equipourkids.org
﻿Do "Any One Thing" https://equipourkids.org/social-emotional-learning-one-thing/
Jay's Lecture "HOW AND WHY WE ARE WHO WE ARE" https://youtu.be/27KBmYVjz4I

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>An Education Path to a Brilliant Future:</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Jay Levin</strong></h1><h3><strong>Why training the next generation in emotional intelligence is a tremendous way to double down on your missions. and goals</strong></h3><p>We find that our mission is the mission of most nonprofits, which is to heal what is wounded and open pathways to unfold more universal well-being. that cares for all and ends the misery of many from familiar societal issues. We support a movement that can change an entire direction and has the potential to diminish dramatically eons of human pain and conflict. We encourage mutual support among nonprofits and causes.</p><p><strong>Jay Levin</strong> is best known as the founder and former editor-in-chief and CEO of the Los Angeles Weekly, which under his editorial, business, and sales/marketing leadership became the largest circulation and most advertising-rich weekly newspaper in the country while winning numerous journalism awards. He has led six media companies and, as a social entrepreneur, has started six nonprofits. His current nonprofit focus is on transformational learning that will have profound positive effects on human affairs and the creativity and skills needed to keep up with a rapidly changing world.</p><p>More about Equip Our Kids at <a href="https://equipourkids.org/"><strong>https://equipourkids.org</strong></a></p><p>﻿Do "Any One Thing" <a href="https://equipourkids.org/social-emotional-learning-one-thing/"><strong>https://equipourkids.org/social-emotional-learning-one-thing/</strong></a></p><p>Jay's Lecture "HOW AND WHY WE ARE WHO WE ARE" <a href="https://youtu.be/27KBmYVjz4I"><strong>https://youtu.be/27KBmYVjz4I</strong></a></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1882</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9668765322.mp3?updated=1651604865" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Managing Your Calendar and Your Life with Mark S. A. Smith</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-manage-your-life/</link>
      <description>Managing Your Calendar and Your Life: Learning to Delegate
with Mark S. A. Smith
Are you stressed and asking yourself questions?

Does your to-do list get longer every day?

Are you swamped by the urgent but unimportant tasks that don’t move you toward your strategic initiatives?

Would you like to delegate tasks but have been burned by poor performance or untimely output of your subordinates?

If you’ve answered “yes” to any of these questions, join me and Mark S A Smith to fix these delegation problems forever.
After a successful career in helping to bring to market billions of dollars of disruptive technology, Mark S A Smith now works with heart-centered leaders faced with chaos and upheavals to bring them new perspective to make wise decisions.
As we transition from the Experience Economy, where people bought what was memorable, to the Transformation Economy, where people buy meaningful, authentic, and socially responsible, business models from the past fall apart.
The solution is Nimbility, which is the intersection of resilience and innovation.
This is exemplified in his two new books, The Nimble C-Suite: How to Align the Diverse Strengths of Your Executive Team to Predictably Deliver Extraordinary Results in a Transformational Economy, and The Nimble Company: A Proactive, Socially Responsible Framework for Driving Sustained Profits and Growth in a Chronically Chaotic World.
Co-founder of NimbilityWorks, a consulting firm dedicated to helping leaders embrace Nimbility, he brings his broad leadership perspective, extensive business models, professional speaking capacity, and tightly-honed coaching skills to leaders who desire to lead transformational businesses and teams that make a difference.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2022 20:15:22 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Managing Your Calendar and Your Life with Mark S. A. Smith</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Learning to Delegate</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Managing Your Calendar and Your Life: Learning to Delegate
with Mark S. A. Smith
Are you stressed and asking yourself questions?

Does your to-do list get longer every day?

Are you swamped by the urgent but unimportant tasks that don’t move you toward your strategic initiatives?

Would you like to delegate tasks but have been burned by poor performance or untimely output of your subordinates?

If you’ve answered “yes” to any of these questions, join me and Mark S A Smith to fix these delegation problems forever.
After a successful career in helping to bring to market billions of dollars of disruptive technology, Mark S A Smith now works with heart-centered leaders faced with chaos and upheavals to bring them new perspective to make wise decisions.
As we transition from the Experience Economy, where people bought what was memorable, to the Transformation Economy, where people buy meaningful, authentic, and socially responsible, business models from the past fall apart.
The solution is Nimbility, which is the intersection of resilience and innovation.
This is exemplified in his two new books, The Nimble C-Suite: How to Align the Diverse Strengths of Your Executive Team to Predictably Deliver Extraordinary Results in a Transformational Economy, and The Nimble Company: A Proactive, Socially Responsible Framework for Driving Sustained Profits and Growth in a Chronically Chaotic World.
Co-founder of NimbilityWorks, a consulting firm dedicated to helping leaders embrace Nimbility, he brings his broad leadership perspective, extensive business models, professional speaking capacity, and tightly-honed coaching skills to leaders who desire to lead transformational businesses and teams that make a difference.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Managing Your Calendar and Your Life: Learning to Delegate</strong></h1><h1><strong>with Mark S. A. Smith</strong></h1><p>Are you stressed and asking yourself questions?</p><ul>
<li>Does your to-do list get longer every day?</li>
<li>Are you swamped by the urgent but unimportant tasks that don’t move you toward your strategic initiatives?</li>
<li>Would you like to delegate tasks but have been burned by poor performance or untimely output of your subordinates?</li>
</ul><p>If you’ve answered “yes” to any of these questions, join me and Mark S A Smith to fix these delegation problems forever.</p><p>After a successful career in helping to bring to market billions of dollars of disruptive technology, <strong>Mark S A Smith</strong> now works with heart-centered leaders faced with chaos and upheavals to bring them new perspective to make wise decisions.</p><p>As we transition from the Experience Economy, where people bought what was <strong><em>memorable</em></strong>, to the Transformation Economy, where people buy <strong><em>meaningful</em></strong><em>,</em> authentic, and socially responsible, business models from the past fall apart.</p><p>The solution is Nimbility, which is the intersection of resilience and innovation.</p><p>This is exemplified in his two new books, <strong><em>The Nimble C-Suite: How to Align the Diverse Strengths of Your Executive Team to Predictably Deliver Extraordinary Results in a Transformational Economy</em></strong>, and <strong><em>The Nimble Company: A Proactive, Socially Responsible Framework for Driving Sustained Profits and Growth in a Chronically Chaotic World.</em></strong></p><p>Co-founder of NimbilityWorks, a consulting firm dedicated to helping leaders embrace Nimbility, he brings his broad leadership perspective, extensive business models, professional speaking capacity, and tightly-honed coaching skills to leaders who desire to lead transformational businesses and teams that make a difference.</p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2412</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6552503819.mp3?updated=1651004607" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Dissing Ability: Interview with Professor Tory L. Lucas</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/dissing-ability/</link>
      <description>Dissing Ability: Interview with Professor Tory L. Lucas

To correct a disabling view of people with disabilities, Professor Tory L. Lucas prescribes a paradigm shift that permanently redirects the focus from disability to ability. If America achieves this hopeful vision to no longer diss—or disrespect—ability, then people with disabilities will enjoy equal access to equal opportunity.
Professor Tory L. Lucas has served on the faculty of Liberty University School of Law since 2011. During his legal career, Tory has been a trial lawyer in private practice, served as a judge advocate in the U.S. Air Force, clerked for two federal judges on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit, published seventeen articles, and taught law at Creighton University School of Law, Stetson University College of Law, the University of Nebraska College of Law, and Liberty Law. Tory teaches Property, Federal Jurisdiction, and Disability Law. Tory received his B.A. degree, Magna Cum Laude, from Culver-Stockton College. He was the first person in his family to attend college, and he now serves on the Board of Trustees of that college. Tory also earned his J.D. degree, Summa Cum Laude, from Creighton University School of Law and his LL.M. degree from the University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law, where he was the Arthur Mag Fellow of Law. Tory is married to Megan A. Lucas, who serves as the CEO and Chief Economic Development Officer of the Lynchburg Regional Business Alliance.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2022 20:42:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Dissing Ability: Interview with Professor Tory L. Lucas</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Dissing Ability: Interview with Professor Tory L. Lucas</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Dissing Ability: Interview with Professor Tory L. Lucas

To correct a disabling view of people with disabilities, Professor Tory L. Lucas prescribes a paradigm shift that permanently redirects the focus from disability to ability. If America achieves this hopeful vision to no longer diss—or disrespect—ability, then people with disabilities will enjoy equal access to equal opportunity.
Professor Tory L. Lucas has served on the faculty of Liberty University School of Law since 2011. During his legal career, Tory has been a trial lawyer in private practice, served as a judge advocate in the U.S. Air Force, clerked for two federal judges on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit, published seventeen articles, and taught law at Creighton University School of Law, Stetson University College of Law, the University of Nebraska College of Law, and Liberty Law. Tory teaches Property, Federal Jurisdiction, and Disability Law. Tory received his B.A. degree, Magna Cum Laude, from Culver-Stockton College. He was the first person in his family to attend college, and he now serves on the Board of Trustees of that college. Tory also earned his J.D. degree, Summa Cum Laude, from Creighton University School of Law and his LL.M. degree from the University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law, where he was the Arthur Mag Fellow of Law. Tory is married to Megan A. Lucas, who serves as the CEO and Chief Economic Development Officer of the Lynchburg Regional Business Alliance.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Dissing Ability: Interview with Professor Tory L. Lucas</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>To correct a disabling view of people with disabilities, Professor Tory L. Lucas prescribes a paradigm shift that permanently redirects the focus from disability to ability. If America achieves this hopeful vision to no longer diss—or disrespect—ability, then people with disabilities will enjoy equal access to equal opportunity.</p><p>Professor <strong>Tory L. Lucas</strong> has served on the faculty of Liberty University School of Law since 2011. During his legal career, Tory has been a trial lawyer in private practice, served as a judge advocate in the U.S. Air Force, clerked for two federal judges on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit, published seventeen articles, and taught law at Creighton University School of Law, Stetson University College of Law, the University of Nebraska College of Law, and Liberty Law. Tory teaches Property, Federal Jurisdiction, and Disability Law. Tory received his B.A. degree, Magna Cum Laude, from Culver-Stockton College. He was the first person in his family to attend college, and he now serves on the Board of Trustees of that college. Tory also earned his J.D. degree, Summa Cum Laude, from Creighton University School of Law and his LL.M. degree from the University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law, where he was the Arthur Mag Fellow of Law. Tory is married to Megan A. Lucas, who serves as the CEO and Chief Economic Development Officer of the Lynchburg Regional Business Alliance.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1889</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why Feminine Leadership is the Future</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/why-feminine-leadership-is-the-future/</link>
      <description>Why Feminine Leadership is the Future: Interview with LeadHERship Founder, Linda Fisk
Linda Fisk is a multi-award-winning leader, keynote speaker, author, and university professor dedicated to amplifying and extending the success of other high-caliber business leaders. She is the Founder and CEO of LeadHERship Global, a community of unstoppable women enhancing their leadership blueprint and embracing their power to be the best version of themselves- in work and life. In LeadHERship Global, Linda supports and guides ambitious, creative women to move in the direction of their purpose, their mission, and their dreams with powerful connections, critical support, practical tools, and valuable resources to show up, speak up and step up in their careers and personal lives.
Prior to her role in LeadHERship Global, Linda was the CEO of Collective 54, successfully launching growing, and scaling that firm after serving as the global head of brand marketing, public relations, and communications at Susan G. Komen. Linda forged an earlier career as an entrepreneurial and forward-thinking marketing executive on the cutting edge of brand marketing. When Linda served as the Global Head of Marketing for YPO, she developed her passion for bringing inspiring leaders together to create opportunities, discover possibilities and solve problems.
﻿Linda has a Ph.D. and M.A. in Clinical Psychology and has written extensively on the subjects of social comparison, depression and anxiety, subjective well-being, and personality theory, with a focus on relating scientific research to commonly understood concepts. Currently, Linda is interested in the psychology of influence, persuasion, and negotiation.
Linda's message:
Let’s rewind the tape for a minute. Remember back in early 2020 -- an invisible and dangerous enemy was fast approaching: COVID-19. It was highly contagious, unpredictable, and deadly.
So, what to do? How to prepare and respond? Leaders of cities, states, and countries faced an unprecedented test. The story of the spread and unthinkable human tragedies of COVID-19 is the ultimate case study in high-stakes leadership. The ones who passed this test with flying colors are disproportionately women. This is despite the fact that they make up only 7% of
heads of state.
And, none of us can afford to miss the lessons here. The number of COVID-related deaths is predicted to be substantially lower in areas where leaders acted sooner - even by a week.
All leaders, including men, can learn from what we have seen women do in this crisis. This moment in history offers a fascinating and real-time opportunity to understand the consequences of leadership decisions in a high-stakes situation.
Empathy wins in a crisis - Women leaders, they found, tend to slightly outperform men in most leadership skills. Often referred to as emotional intelligence, soft skills refer to any ability pertaining to the way you approach others or handle your professional life – and women tend to excel.
Women have been proven to hold a key advantage in these soft skills--a study by global consulting firm Hay Group found that women outperform men in 11 of 12 key emotional intelligence competencies.
But the difference in leadership between the genders grows larger during any sort of crisis. Female leaders express more awareness of fears that team members might be feeling, concern for well-being, and confidence in their plans.
Included in these are essential leadership capabilities, common to most women, are things like:
• Professionalism (self-motivation, work ethic, resilience)
• The ability to network
• Collaboration
• Communication, both oral and written
• Critical thinking
More information at https://leadHERshipGlobal.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2022 19:40:56 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Why Feminine Leadership is the Future</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with LeadHERship Founder, Linda Fisk</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Why Feminine Leadership is the Future: Interview with LeadHERship Founder, Linda Fisk
Linda Fisk is a multi-award-winning leader, keynote speaker, author, and university professor dedicated to amplifying and extending the success of other high-caliber business leaders. She is the Founder and CEO of LeadHERship Global, a community of unstoppable women enhancing their leadership blueprint and embracing their power to be the best version of themselves- in work and life. In LeadHERship Global, Linda supports and guides ambitious, creative women to move in the direction of their purpose, their mission, and their dreams with powerful connections, critical support, practical tools, and valuable resources to show up, speak up and step up in their careers and personal lives.
Prior to her role in LeadHERship Global, Linda was the CEO of Collective 54, successfully launching growing, and scaling that firm after serving as the global head of brand marketing, public relations, and communications at Susan G. Komen. Linda forged an earlier career as an entrepreneurial and forward-thinking marketing executive on the cutting edge of brand marketing. When Linda served as the Global Head of Marketing for YPO, she developed her passion for bringing inspiring leaders together to create opportunities, discover possibilities and solve problems.
﻿Linda has a Ph.D. and M.A. in Clinical Psychology and has written extensively on the subjects of social comparison, depression and anxiety, subjective well-being, and personality theory, with a focus on relating scientific research to commonly understood concepts. Currently, Linda is interested in the psychology of influence, persuasion, and negotiation.
Linda's message:
Let’s rewind the tape for a minute. Remember back in early 2020 -- an invisible and dangerous enemy was fast approaching: COVID-19. It was highly contagious, unpredictable, and deadly.
So, what to do? How to prepare and respond? Leaders of cities, states, and countries faced an unprecedented test. The story of the spread and unthinkable human tragedies of COVID-19 is the ultimate case study in high-stakes leadership. The ones who passed this test with flying colors are disproportionately women. This is despite the fact that they make up only 7% of
heads of state.
And, none of us can afford to miss the lessons here. The number of COVID-related deaths is predicted to be substantially lower in areas where leaders acted sooner - even by a week.
All leaders, including men, can learn from what we have seen women do in this crisis. This moment in history offers a fascinating and real-time opportunity to understand the consequences of leadership decisions in a high-stakes situation.
Empathy wins in a crisis - Women leaders, they found, tend to slightly outperform men in most leadership skills. Often referred to as emotional intelligence, soft skills refer to any ability pertaining to the way you approach others or handle your professional life – and women tend to excel.
Women have been proven to hold a key advantage in these soft skills--a study by global consulting firm Hay Group found that women outperform men in 11 of 12 key emotional intelligence competencies.
But the difference in leadership between the genders grows larger during any sort of crisis. Female leaders express more awareness of fears that team members might be feeling, concern for well-being, and confidence in their plans.
Included in these are essential leadership capabilities, common to most women, are things like:
• Professionalism (self-motivation, work ethic, resilience)
• The ability to network
• Collaboration
• Communication, both oral and written
• Critical thinking
More information at https://leadHERshipGlobal.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Why Feminine Leadership is the Future: Interview with LeadHERship Founder, Linda Fisk</strong></h1><p><strong>Linda Fisk</strong> is a multi-award-winning leader, keynote speaker, author, and university professor dedicated to amplifying and extending the success of other high-caliber business leaders. She is the Founder and CEO of LeadHERship Global, a community of unstoppable women enhancing their leadership blueprint and embracing their power to be the best version of themselves- in work and life. In LeadHERship Global, Linda supports and guides ambitious, creative women to move in the direction of their purpose, their mission, and their dreams with powerful connections, critical support, practical tools, and valuable resources to show up, speak up and step up in their careers and personal lives.</p><p>Prior to her role in LeadHERship Global, Linda was the CEO of Collective 54, successfully launching growing, and scaling that firm after serving as the global head of brand marketing, public relations, and communications at Susan G. Komen. Linda forged an earlier career as an entrepreneurial and forward-thinking marketing executive on the cutting edge of brand marketing. When Linda served as the Global Head of Marketing for YPO, she developed her passion for bringing inspiring leaders together to create opportunities, discover possibilities and solve problems.</p><p>﻿Linda has a Ph.D. and M.A. in Clinical Psychology and has written extensively on the subjects of social comparison, depression and anxiety, subjective well-being, and personality theory, with a focus on relating scientific research to commonly understood concepts. Currently, Linda is interested in the psychology of influence, persuasion, and negotiation.</p><p><strong>Linda's message:</strong></p><p>Let’s rewind the tape for a minute. Remember back in early 2020 -- an invisible and dangerous enemy was fast approaching: COVID-19. It was highly contagious, unpredictable, and deadly.</p><p>So, what to do? How to prepare and respond? Leaders of cities, states, and countries faced an unprecedented test. The story of the spread and unthinkable human tragedies of COVID-19 is the ultimate case study in high-stakes leadership. The ones who passed this test with flying colors are disproportionately women. This is despite the fact that they make up only 7% of</p><p>heads of state.</p><p>And, none of us can afford to miss the lessons here. The number of COVID-related deaths is predicted to be substantially lower in areas where leaders acted sooner - even by a week.</p><p>All leaders, including men, can learn from what we have seen women do in this crisis. This moment in history offers a fascinating and real-time opportunity to understand the consequences of leadership decisions in a high-stakes situation.</p><p>Empathy wins in a crisis - Women leaders, they found, tend to slightly outperform men in most leadership skills. Often referred to as emotional intelligence, soft skills refer to any ability pertaining to the way you approach others or handle your professional life – and women tend to excel.</p><p>Women have been proven to hold a key advantage in these soft skills--a study by global consulting firm Hay Group found that women outperform men in 11 of 12 key emotional intelligence competencies.</p><p>But the difference in leadership between the genders grows larger during any sort of crisis. Female leaders express more awareness of fears that team members might be feeling, concern for well-being, and confidence in their plans.</p><p>Included in these are essential leadership capabilities, common to most women, are things like:</p><p>• Professionalism (self-motivation, work ethic, resilience)</p><p>• The ability to network</p><p>• Collaboration</p><p>• Communication, both oral and written</p><p>• Critical thinking</p><p>More information at <a href="https://leadhershipglobal.com/"><strong>https://leadHERshipGlobal.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1884</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6964117339.mp3?updated=1649792800" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Taking the 'Ick' out of the 'Ask'</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/taking-the-ick-out-of-the-ask/</link>
      <description>Taking the 'Ick' out of the 'Ask'
with Funding Professional Kel Haney

Kel Haney is an NYC &amp; Maine-based fundraising expert with 15 years of experience in the field, specializing in Outbound Fundraising. She's a Senior Consultant at Donorly.
Her work boils down to “taking the ick out of the ask." “She believes that we can create fundraising conversations that are relationship-building opportunities, as opposed to transactional encounters.
Kel's worked with such companies as MCC Theatre, Signature Theatre, Ensemble Studio Theatre, Manhattan Theatre Club, The O’Neill Theater Center, New York Theatre Workshop, Page 73 Productions, BroadwayUnlocked, The Glimmerglass Festival, and Paul Taylor Dance Company.
She spent twenty years as a theater director and her fundraising methodology is based on how she led a rehearsal room: focusing on what makes each of us unique and engaging.
Kel empowers artists, art administrators, &amp; board members with the knowledge that they already possess the most critical tools needed to be skilled fundraisers (empathy, candor, vulnerability, enthusiasm, and storytelling).
Over her fundraising career, Kel has helped arts organizations raise approx. $10M, primarily in donations under $1.5K.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Apr 2022 19:26:43 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Taking the 'Ick' out of the 'Ask'</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Funding Professional Kel Haney</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Taking the 'Ick' out of the 'Ask'
with Funding Professional Kel Haney

Kel Haney is an NYC &amp; Maine-based fundraising expert with 15 years of experience in the field, specializing in Outbound Fundraising. She's a Senior Consultant at Donorly.
Her work boils down to “taking the ick out of the ask." “She believes that we can create fundraising conversations that are relationship-building opportunities, as opposed to transactional encounters.
Kel's worked with such companies as MCC Theatre, Signature Theatre, Ensemble Studio Theatre, Manhattan Theatre Club, The O’Neill Theater Center, New York Theatre Workshop, Page 73 Productions, BroadwayUnlocked, The Glimmerglass Festival, and Paul Taylor Dance Company.
She spent twenty years as a theater director and her fundraising methodology is based on how she led a rehearsal room: focusing on what makes each of us unique and engaging.
Kel empowers artists, art administrators, &amp; board members with the knowledge that they already possess the most critical tools needed to be skilled fundraisers (empathy, candor, vulnerability, enthusiasm, and storytelling).
Over her fundraising career, Kel has helped arts organizations raise approx. $10M, primarily in donations under $1.5K.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Taking the 'Ick' out of the 'Ask'</strong></h1><h1><strong>with Funding Professional Kel Haney</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>Kel Haney is an NYC &amp; Maine-based fundraising expert with 15 years of experience in the field, specializing in Outbound Fundraising. She's a Senior Consultant at Donorly.</p><p>Her work boils down to “taking the ick out of the ask." “She believes that we can create fundraising conversations that are relationship-building opportunities, as opposed to transactional encounters.</p><p>Kel's worked with such companies as MCC Theatre, Signature Theatre, Ensemble Studio Theatre, Manhattan Theatre Club, The O’Neill Theater Center, New York Theatre Workshop, Page 73 Productions, BroadwayUnlocked, The Glimmerglass Festival, and Paul Taylor Dance Company.</p><p>She spent twenty years as a theater director and her fundraising methodology is based on how she led a rehearsal room: focusing on what makes each of us unique and engaging.</p><p>Kel empowers artists, art administrators, &amp; board members with the knowledge that they already possess the most critical tools needed to be skilled fundraisers (empathy, candor, vulnerability, enthusiasm, and storytelling).</p><p>Over her fundraising career, Kel has helped arts organizations raise approx. $10M, primarily in donations under $1.5K.</p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2334</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[7002c98c-b516-11ec-bb87-7b7c1a14371e]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4701491454.mp3?updated=1649187152" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>From Data and Technology to Mission Impact: Interview with Data Expert Stu Manewith</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/from-data-and-technology-to-mission-impact/</link>
      <description>From Data and Technology to Mission Impact:
Interview with Data Expert Stu Manewith
Your organization's data is an asset, as valuable as any other asset, and needs to be treated as such, properly taken care of, invested in, and stewarded. The quality of an organization's data can have a profound impact on its success in mission delivery, and the technology an organization uses will affect data quality and integrity.
Stu Manewith CFRE joined Omatic Software six years ago and serves as the company’s Director of Thought Leadership and Advocacy. In that role, he is Omatic’s nonprofit sector domain specialist and subject-matter expert and is responsible for actively promoting and demonstrating Omatic’s position as the nonprofit industry’s leading partner in the world of data integration. Prior to Omatic, Stu spent 13 years at Blackbaud, working with Raiser’s Edge, Financial Edge, and Blackbaud CRM client organizations as a consultant, solution architect, and practice manager. Previously, Stu spent the first half of his career as a nonprofit executive, fundraiser, and finance director, working in both the healthcare and arts/cultural arenas of the nonprofit sector. He holds business degrees from Washington University and the University of Wisconsin, and he earned his CFRE in 1999.
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2022 19:56:14 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>From Data and Technology to Mission Impact: Interview with Data Expert Stu Manewith</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>A Virtuous Cycle</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>From Data and Technology to Mission Impact:
Interview with Data Expert Stu Manewith
Your organization's data is an asset, as valuable as any other asset, and needs to be treated as such, properly taken care of, invested in, and stewarded. The quality of an organization's data can have a profound impact on its success in mission delivery, and the technology an organization uses will affect data quality and integrity.
Stu Manewith CFRE joined Omatic Software six years ago and serves as the company’s Director of Thought Leadership and Advocacy. In that role, he is Omatic’s nonprofit sector domain specialist and subject-matter expert and is responsible for actively promoting and demonstrating Omatic’s position as the nonprofit industry’s leading partner in the world of data integration. Prior to Omatic, Stu spent 13 years at Blackbaud, working with Raiser’s Edge, Financial Edge, and Blackbaud CRM client organizations as a consultant, solution architect, and practice manager. Previously, Stu spent the first half of his career as a nonprofit executive, fundraiser, and finance director, working in both the healthcare and arts/cultural arenas of the nonprofit sector. He holds business degrees from Washington University and the University of Wisconsin, and he earned his CFRE in 1999.
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>From Data and Technology to Mission Impact:</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Data Expert Stu Manewith</strong></h1><p>Your organization's data is an asset, as valuable as any other asset, and needs to be treated as such, properly taken care of, invested in, and stewarded. The quality of an organization's data can have a profound impact on its success in mission delivery, and the technology an organization uses will affect data quality and integrity.</p><p><strong>Stu Manewith</strong> CFRE joined Omatic Software six years ago and serves as the company’s Director of Thought Leadership and Advocacy. In that role, he is Omatic’s nonprofit sector domain specialist and subject-matter expert and is responsible for actively promoting and demonstrating Omatic’s position as the nonprofit industry’s leading partner in the world of data integration. Prior to Omatic, Stu spent 13 years at Blackbaud, working with Raiser’s Edge, Financial Edge, and Blackbaud CRM client organizations as a consultant, solution architect, and practice manager. Previously, Stu spent the first half of his career as a nonprofit executive, fundraiser, and finance director, working in both the healthcare and arts/cultural arenas of the nonprofit sector. He holds business degrees from Washington University and the University of Wisconsin, and he earned his CFRE in 1999.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1863</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[80bea8ee-af9a-11ec-8882-c33e2a70af8f]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6632853736.mp3?updated=1648584166" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to Use Children's Books to Raise Awareness  for Charitable Causes</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/how-to-use-childrens-book-to-raise-awareness-for-charitable-causes/</link>
      <description>How to Use Children's Books to Raise Awareness 
for Charitable Causes:
Interview with Visionary Author D. W. Lawhorn

D. W. Lawhorn was born and raised in central Virginia, He is the husband to the best wife ever, he loves spending time with his children and grandson. He has a heart of gold and has a passion for giving back and helping others.
What he says about the interview: "I will share what inspired me to write a children’s book. How to step out of your comfort zone and be successful. I don’t like to set goals because I think that can hurt you and I will explain why. Find out what drives you and use that in a positive way."


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2022 19:24:59 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How to Use Children's Books to Raise Awareness  for Charitable Causes</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Visionary Author D. W. Lawhorn</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How to Use Children's Books to Raise Awareness 
for Charitable Causes:
Interview with Visionary Author D. W. Lawhorn

D. W. Lawhorn was born and raised in central Virginia, He is the husband to the best wife ever, he loves spending time with his children and grandson. He has a heart of gold and has a passion for giving back and helping others.
What he says about the interview: "I will share what inspired me to write a children’s book. How to step out of your comfort zone and be successful. I don’t like to set goals because I think that can hurt you and I will explain why. Find out what drives you and use that in a positive way."


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>How to Use Children's Books to Raise Awareness </strong></h1><h1><strong>for Charitable Causes:</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Visionary Author D. W. Lawhorn</strong></h1><p><br></p><p><strong>D. W. Lawhorn </strong>was born and raised in central Virginia, He is the husband to the best wife ever, he loves spending time with his children and grandson. He has a heart of gold and has a passion for giving back and helping others.</p><p>What he says about the interview: "I will share what inspired me to write a children’s book. How to step out of your comfort zone and be successful. I don’t like to set goals because I think that can hurt you and I will explain why. Find out what drives you and use that in a positive way."</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1771</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f000e6f2-aa15-11ec-a29e-ffe37bbddf80]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2165110698.mp3?updated=1647977474" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How W-2 Employees “Do Well By Doing Good”</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/how-w-2-employees-do-well-by-doing-good/</link>
      <description>How W-2 Employees “Do Well By Doing Good”
Interview with Bill Lloyd
The last two years have been brutal for nonprofits. Due to the contracted economy and Coronavirus, nonprofits are working harder than ever to raise funds for many worthy causes. By leveraging our unique approach, nonprofits can expand their donor base, create a new market, and increase revenue immediately with minimal expenses, while helping donors enjoy better retirements.
Bill Lloyd: Math teacher. Swim coach. Father. Financial Advisor. Wealth Manager. Tax Strategist. Whistleblower. Entrepreneur. These are all titles that describe Bill Lloyd over his forty-year career from Tulane to the corporate world. In every role he has held, his modus operandi has been to act with integrity and build deep connections with the people he serves.
Raised in a household where your word was your promise and handshakes were given more importance than a contract, it is no surprise that Bill is known as a straight arrow who cares about his customers and the community. In 2008, he discovered a $2.5 Billion math problem which led to blowing the whistle (SEC) and saving the retirements of thousands. “Not on my watch,” became Bill’s refrain as he navigated the consequences of being a whistleblower. 
It would be years later when tax laws changed that Bill put on his math thinking cap and came up with a way to help hardworking W2 employees escape to the land of better retirements. Coupled with the pandemic and the challenges facing nonprofits and philanthropy, he launched The Charitable Payraise™ in 2020 to expand the impact individuals can have on their retirement and giving back
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2022 19:55:55 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How W-2 Employees “Do Well By Doing Good”</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>A new way of funding nonprofits</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How W-2 Employees “Do Well By Doing Good”
Interview with Bill Lloyd
The last two years have been brutal for nonprofits. Due to the contracted economy and Coronavirus, nonprofits are working harder than ever to raise funds for many worthy causes. By leveraging our unique approach, nonprofits can expand their donor base, create a new market, and increase revenue immediately with minimal expenses, while helping donors enjoy better retirements.
Bill Lloyd: Math teacher. Swim coach. Father. Financial Advisor. Wealth Manager. Tax Strategist. Whistleblower. Entrepreneur. These are all titles that describe Bill Lloyd over his forty-year career from Tulane to the corporate world. In every role he has held, his modus operandi has been to act with integrity and build deep connections with the people he serves.
Raised in a household where your word was your promise and handshakes were given more importance than a contract, it is no surprise that Bill is known as a straight arrow who cares about his customers and the community. In 2008, he discovered a $2.5 Billion math problem which led to blowing the whistle (SEC) and saving the retirements of thousands. “Not on my watch,” became Bill’s refrain as he navigated the consequences of being a whistleblower. 
It would be years later when tax laws changed that Bill put on his math thinking cap and came up with a way to help hardworking W2 employees escape to the land of better retirements. Coupled with the pandemic and the challenges facing nonprofits and philanthropy, he launched The Charitable Payraise™ in 2020 to expand the impact individuals can have on their retirement and giving back
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>How W-2 Employees “Do Well By Doing Good”</h1><h1>Interview with Bill Lloyd</h1><p>The last two years have been brutal for nonprofits. Due to the contracted economy and Coronavirus, nonprofits are working harder than ever to raise funds for many worthy causes. By leveraging our unique approach, nonprofits can expand their donor base, create a new market, and increase revenue immediately with minimal expenses, while helping donors enjoy better retirements.</p><p><strong>Bill Lloyd</strong>: Math teacher. Swim coach. Father. Financial Advisor. Wealth Manager. Tax Strategist. Whistleblower. Entrepreneur. These are all titles that describe Bill Lloyd over his forty-year career from Tulane to the corporate world. In every role he has held, his modus operandi has been to act with integrity and build deep connections with the people he serves.</p><p>Raised in a household where your word was your promise and handshakes were given more importance than a contract, it is no surprise that Bill is known as a straight arrow who cares about his customers and the community. In 2008, he discovered a $2.5 Billion math problem which led to blowing the whistle (SEC) and saving the retirements of thousands. “Not on my watch,” became Bill’s refrain as he navigated the consequences of being a whistleblower. </p><p>It would be years later when tax laws changed that Bill put on his math thinking cap and came up with a way to help hardworking W2 employees escape to the land of better retirements. Coupled with the pandemic and the challenges facing nonprofits and philanthropy, he launched The Charitable Payraise™ in 2020 to expand the impact individuals can have on their retirement and giving back</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1787</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d9e4a442-a49a-11ec-9311-8773d0fba091]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2350890093.mp3?updated=1647374853" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Training in the Hybrid World</title>
      <description>Training in the Hybrid World
Interview with Heather Burright
Many nonprofits were forced to move their staff and volunteer training to the virtual environment in 2020. Now, almost two years later, we have an opportunity to reassess what we created and truly leverage the technology to ensure our staff and volunteers have the skills they need to deliver on our mission - even in our hybrid environment. I will walk through a process to help you create more engagement in the virtual room and build momentum with your staff development efforts.
Leveraging 15 years of professional experience, Heather Burright, founder, and CEO of Skill Masters Market, specializes in creating dynamic, people-centric solutions that drive business goals. With her comes expertise in strategies for diversity, equity, and inclusion; instructional design; and change management. She’s dedicated to identifying core competencies that are needed to see real results and to creating the learning strategies and solutions needed to develop those competencies. Most recently, Heather managed a proprietary competency model for YMCA of the USA. She spent countless hours educating and influencing HR leaders across the country, deepening their knowledge of why and how to implement the model.
Prior to her work in a nonprofit, Heather led the way in innovative training design in industries such as for-profit higher education and government agencies.
Heather earned an advanced degree from Jacksonville State University in Alabama.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 09 Mar 2022 00:22:26 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Training in the Hybrid World</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Heather Burright</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Training in the Hybrid World
Interview with Heather Burright
Many nonprofits were forced to move their staff and volunteer training to the virtual environment in 2020. Now, almost two years later, we have an opportunity to reassess what we created and truly leverage the technology to ensure our staff and volunteers have the skills they need to deliver on our mission - even in our hybrid environment. I will walk through a process to help you create more engagement in the virtual room and build momentum with your staff development efforts.
Leveraging 15 years of professional experience, Heather Burright, founder, and CEO of Skill Masters Market, specializes in creating dynamic, people-centric solutions that drive business goals. With her comes expertise in strategies for diversity, equity, and inclusion; instructional design; and change management. She’s dedicated to identifying core competencies that are needed to see real results and to creating the learning strategies and solutions needed to develop those competencies. Most recently, Heather managed a proprietary competency model for YMCA of the USA. She spent countless hours educating and influencing HR leaders across the country, deepening their knowledge of why and how to implement the model.
Prior to her work in a nonprofit, Heather led the way in innovative training design in industries such as for-profit higher education and government agencies.
Heather earned an advanced degree from Jacksonville State University in Alabama.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Training in the Hybrid World</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Heather Burright</strong></h1><p>Many nonprofits were forced to move their staff and volunteer training to the virtual environment in 2020. Now, almost two years later, we have an opportunity to reassess what we created and truly leverage the technology to ensure our staff and volunteers have the skills they need to deliver on our mission - even in our hybrid environment. I will walk through a process to help you create more engagement in the virtual room and build momentum with your staff development efforts.</p><p>Leveraging 15 years of professional experience, <strong>Heather Burright</strong>, founder, and CEO of Skill Masters Market, specializes in creating dynamic, people-centric solutions that drive business goals. With her comes expertise in strategies for diversity, equity, and inclusion; instructional design; and change management. She’s dedicated to identifying core competencies that are needed to see real results and to creating the learning strategies and solutions needed to develop those competencies. Most recently, Heather managed a proprietary competency model for YMCA of the USA. She spent countless hours educating and influencing HR leaders across the country, deepening their knowledge of why and how to implement the model.</p><p>Prior to her work in a nonprofit, Heather led the way in innovative training design in industries such as for-profit higher education and government agencies.</p><p>Heather earned an advanced degree from Jacksonville State University in Alabama.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2320</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2597ab9c-9f40-11ec-9aa4-176280cddd2a]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1461375250.mp3?updated=1646786140" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leading With Style: How Your Unique Personality Drives Success  ﻿and Creates Conflict</title>
      <description>Leading With Style: How Your Unique Personality Drives Success 
and Creates Conflict
Interview with Rick Chromey
Rick’s message for this interview:
First, if I can lead (a nonprofit) then anyone can! I’m the reluctant leader who has, surprisingly, found nonprofit leadership to be a perfect fit for my aptitudes, skills, and personality. Second, nonprofit work is like being a lion on the Serengeti. Every day is about finding a gazelle to eat. Sometimes the prey comes to you, sometimes you have to go get it. Regardless, nonprofit leadership is about creating new opportunities, securing new financial resources, and leading your team to embrace “the dream” for which you labor.
It’s why leadership style matters. You’re either a “chef” (active/cognitive), “game show host (active/emotive), “stage manager” (passive/cognitive) or “counselor” (passive/emotive) type of leader. Understanding your natural strengths, and knowing how to use them, is what creates productivity and progress.
DR. RICK CHROMEY is a best-selling author, international speaker, cultural historian, professor, and pastor. His mission is to help people interpret history, navigate culture and explore faith to create trusted and transformative change. In 2017 he founded MANNA! Educational Services International, is a faith-based nonprofit that empowers leaders, teachers, pastors, and parents. He’s authored over a dozen books, including his most recent work titled GenTech: An American Story of Technology, Change, and Who We Really Are (2020). Rick lives in a small town outside Boise, ID with his wife Linda.

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      <pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2022 20:39:25 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leading With Style: How Your Unique Personality Drives Success  ﻿and Creates Conflict</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Rick Chromey</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leading With Style: How Your Unique Personality Drives Success 
and Creates Conflict
Interview with Rick Chromey
Rick’s message for this interview:
First, if I can lead (a nonprofit) then anyone can! I’m the reluctant leader who has, surprisingly, found nonprofit leadership to be a perfect fit for my aptitudes, skills, and personality. Second, nonprofit work is like being a lion on the Serengeti. Every day is about finding a gazelle to eat. Sometimes the prey comes to you, sometimes you have to go get it. Regardless, nonprofit leadership is about creating new opportunities, securing new financial resources, and leading your team to embrace “the dream” for which you labor.
It’s why leadership style matters. You’re either a “chef” (active/cognitive), “game show host (active/emotive), “stage manager” (passive/cognitive) or “counselor” (passive/emotive) type of leader. Understanding your natural strengths, and knowing how to use them, is what creates productivity and progress.
DR. RICK CHROMEY is a best-selling author, international speaker, cultural historian, professor, and pastor. His mission is to help people interpret history, navigate culture and explore faith to create trusted and transformative change. In 2017 he founded MANNA! Educational Services International, is a faith-based nonprofit that empowers leaders, teachers, pastors, and parents. He’s authored over a dozen books, including his most recent work titled GenTech: An American Story of Technology, Change, and Who We Really Are (2020). Rick lives in a small town outside Boise, ID with his wife Linda.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Leading With Style: How Your Unique Personality Drives Success </h1><h1>and Creates Conflict</h1><h1>Interview with Rick Chromey</h1><p><strong>Rick’s message for this interview:</strong></p><p>First, if I can lead (a nonprofit) then anyone can! I’m the reluctant leader who has, surprisingly, found nonprofit leadership to be a perfect fit for my aptitudes, skills, and personality. Second, nonprofit work is like being a lion on the Serengeti. Every day is about finding a gazelle to eat. Sometimes the prey comes to you, sometimes you have to go get it. Regardless, nonprofit leadership is about creating new opportunities, securing new financial resources, and leading your team to embrace “the dream” for which you labor.</p><p>It’s why leadership style matters. You’re either a “chef” (active/cognitive), “game show host (active/emotive), “stage manager” (passive/cognitive) or “counselor” (passive/emotive) type of leader. Understanding your natural strengths, and knowing how to use them, is what creates productivity and progress.</p><p>DR. RICK CHROMEY is a best-selling author, international speaker, cultural historian, professor, and pastor. His mission is to help people interpret history, navigate culture and explore faith to create trusted and transformative change. In 2017 he founded MANNA! Educational Services International, is a faith-based nonprofit that empowers leaders, teachers, pastors, and parents. He’s authored over a dozen books, including his most recent work titled GenTech: An American Story of Technology, Change, and Who We Really Are (2020). Rick lives in a small town outside Boise, ID with his wife Linda.</p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2186</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[b1d5c0a4-999f-11ec-bc71-d740724bc620]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2564255759.mp3?updated=1646167470" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Relational Brain Skills for Growing Emotional Capacity to Have Joy</title>
      <description>Relational Brain Skills for Growing
Emotional Capacity to Have Joy:
Interview with Chris Coursey
Learning practical relational skills helps us recover when things go wrong, keep relationships bigger than problems and stay on course. The foundational skill is learning to live relationally with our brain's relational circuit engaged where we reflect our values rather than slip into "enemy mode" where people become problems to fix and we want to win rather than keep relationships intact. Chris Coursey is an ordained minister, pastoral counselor, published author, curriculum designer, and international speaker.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2022 21:42:30 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Relational Brain Skills for Growing Emotional Capacity to Have Joy</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Thrive Today Founder, Chris Coursey</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Relational Brain Skills for Growing
Emotional Capacity to Have Joy:
Interview with Chris Coursey
Learning practical relational skills helps us recover when things go wrong, keep relationships bigger than problems and stay on course. The foundational skill is learning to live relationally with our brain's relational circuit engaged where we reflect our values rather than slip into "enemy mode" where people become problems to fix and we want to win rather than keep relationships intact. Chris Coursey is an ordained minister, pastoral counselor, published author, curriculum designer, and international speaker.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Relational Brain Skills for Growing</strong></h1><h1><strong>Emotional Capacity to Have Joy:</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Chris Coursey</strong></h1><p>Learning practical relational skills helps us recover when things go wrong, keep relationships bigger than problems and stay on course. The foundational skill is learning to live relationally with our brain's relational circuit engaged where we reflect our values rather than slip into "enemy mode" where people become problems to fix and we want to win rather than keep relationships intact. Chris Coursey is an ordained minister, pastoral counselor, published author, curriculum designer, and international speaker.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1784</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[5b08a312-9428-11ec-989a-7f5bdb2bdb7a]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2753313475.mp3?updated=1645566459" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The New Live and Let Live Global Peace Movement </title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/the-new-live-and-let-live-global-peace-movement/</link>
      <description>The New Live and Let Live Global Peace Movement 
Interview with Marc J. Victor
The Live and Let Live Foundation is a 501(c)(3) organization. We support and promote the Live and Let Live Global Peace Movement. We are working to change the world to promote both freedom and peace.
Marc J. Victor is a certified Criminal Law Specialist by The Arizona Board of Legal Specialization and is admitted in Arizona &amp; Hawaii. Marc has been zealously representing clients in serious state and federal criminal law matters for well over twenty-five years. He has twice debated Maricopa County Attorney Bill Montgomery on the drug war.
Marc has represented clients in more than a thousand major felony cases including first and second-degree murder, sex cases, gun cases, major drug cases, complex white-collar cases, federal appeals, high-profile civil rights, personal injury, and other complex state and federal matters. His jury trial experience includes several murder trials including death eligible matters as well as complex sex and drug cases including both state and federal courts. During his career, Marc has successfully represented clients in many high-profile and media attention cases, including his representation of Elizabeth Johnson in the nationally televised “Baby Gabriel” case. He has also successfully argued before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco.
As a long-time freedom activist, Marc is regularly invited to speak to audiences across Arizona on a variety of issues including ending the drug war, the rights of gun owners, the free market, criminal justice issues as well as a variety of other criminal law-related issues. Most recently, Marc has spoken on the Live and Let Live Principle, the foundation upon which he has established The World’s Only Real Peace Movement
Marc has been quoted locally, nationally, and internationally on radio, television, in print, and in-person as a legal commentator and expert on many local and national cases. He was an expert legal commentator for local NBC 12 News for the Jodi Arias case. Marc and firm partner Andrew Marcantel host The Peace Radicals Podcast with a new episode every Friday. The Peace Radicals is available on most streaming platforms including Apple Podcasts and Spotify and is also available to watch on YouTube.
For more information about Attorney for Freedom, go to https://www.AttorneysForFreedom.com
For more information about Live and Let Live, go to https://www.liveandletlive.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:51:23 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The New Live and Let Live Global Peace Movement </itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Marc J Victor</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The New Live and Let Live Global Peace Movement 
Interview with Marc J. Victor
The Live and Let Live Foundation is a 501(c)(3) organization. We support and promote the Live and Let Live Global Peace Movement. We are working to change the world to promote both freedom and peace.
Marc J. Victor is a certified Criminal Law Specialist by The Arizona Board of Legal Specialization and is admitted in Arizona &amp; Hawaii. Marc has been zealously representing clients in serious state and federal criminal law matters for well over twenty-five years. He has twice debated Maricopa County Attorney Bill Montgomery on the drug war.
Marc has represented clients in more than a thousand major felony cases including first and second-degree murder, sex cases, gun cases, major drug cases, complex white-collar cases, federal appeals, high-profile civil rights, personal injury, and other complex state and federal matters. His jury trial experience includes several murder trials including death eligible matters as well as complex sex and drug cases including both state and federal courts. During his career, Marc has successfully represented clients in many high-profile and media attention cases, including his representation of Elizabeth Johnson in the nationally televised “Baby Gabriel” case. He has also successfully argued before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco.
As a long-time freedom activist, Marc is regularly invited to speak to audiences across Arizona on a variety of issues including ending the drug war, the rights of gun owners, the free market, criminal justice issues as well as a variety of other criminal law-related issues. Most recently, Marc has spoken on the Live and Let Live Principle, the foundation upon which he has established The World’s Only Real Peace Movement
Marc has been quoted locally, nationally, and internationally on radio, television, in print, and in-person as a legal commentator and expert on many local and national cases. He was an expert legal commentator for local NBC 12 News for the Jodi Arias case. Marc and firm partner Andrew Marcantel host The Peace Radicals Podcast with a new episode every Friday. The Peace Radicals is available on most streaming platforms including Apple Podcasts and Spotify and is also available to watch on YouTube.
For more information about Attorney for Freedom, go to https://www.AttorneysForFreedom.com
For more information about Live and Let Live, go to https://www.liveandletlive.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>The New Live and Let Live Global Peace Movement </strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Marc J. Victor</strong></h1><p>The Live and Let Live Foundation is a 501(c)(3) organization. We support and promote the Live and Let Live Global Peace Movement. We are working to change the world to promote both freedom and peace.</p><p><strong>Marc J. Victor</strong> is a certified Criminal Law Specialist by The Arizona Board of Legal Specialization and is admitted in Arizona &amp; Hawaii. Marc has been zealously representing clients in serious state and federal criminal law matters for well over twenty-five years. He has twice debated Maricopa County Attorney Bill Montgomery on the drug war.</p><p>Marc has represented clients in more than a thousand major felony cases including first and second-degree murder, sex cases, gun cases, major drug cases, complex white-collar cases, federal appeals, high-profile civil rights, personal injury, and other complex state and federal matters. His jury trial experience includes several murder trials including death eligible matters as well as complex sex and drug cases including both state and federal courts. During his career, Marc has successfully represented clients in many high-profile and media attention cases, including his representation of Elizabeth Johnson in the nationally televised “Baby Gabriel” case. He has also successfully argued before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco.</p><p>As a long-time freedom activist, Marc is regularly invited to speak to audiences across Arizona on a variety of issues including ending the drug war, the rights of gun owners, the free market, criminal justice issues as well as a variety of other criminal law-related issues. Most recently, Marc has spoken on the Live and Let Live Principle, the foundation upon which he has established The World’s Only Real Peace Movement</p><p>Marc has been quoted locally, nationally, and internationally on radio, television, in print, and in-person as a legal commentator and expert on many local and national cases. He was an expert legal commentator for local NBC 12 News for the Jodi Arias case. Marc and firm partner Andrew Marcantel host The Peace Radicals Podcast with a new episode every Friday. The Peace Radicals is available on most streaming platforms including Apple Podcasts and Spotify and is also available to watch on YouTube.</p><p>For more information about Attorney for Freedom, go to <a href="https://www.attorneysforfreedom.com/"><strong>https://www.AttorneysForFreedom.com</strong></a></p><p>For more information about Live and Let Live, go to <a href="https://www.liveandletlive.org/"><strong>https://www.liveandletlive.org</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1767</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f59a55b4-8eb1-11ec-b7e7-4f81099a7b6f]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8065288351.mp3?updated=1644965852" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Clergy Panel on The Future of the Church</title>
      <link>http://irecharge.live/</link>
      <description>Clergy Panel on The Future of the Church with 

Bishop Carlton Pearson

Bishop Ebony Kirkland

Bishop S Y Younger

Rev. Jim Chandler

Rev. Rich Bontrager

For more sessions, go to http://iRecharge.live to register to see all sessions
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2022 23:30:35 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>NPE Clergy Panel on Future</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Inspiration from Clergy Leader on Leading the Church Into the Future</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Clergy Panel on The Future of the Church with 

Bishop Carlton Pearson

Bishop Ebony Kirkland

Bishop S Y Younger

Rev. Jim Chandler

Rev. Rich Bontrager

For more sessions, go to http://iRecharge.live to register to see all sessions
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Clergy Panel on The Future of the Church with </p><ul>
<li>Bishop Carlton Pearson</li>
<li>Bishop Ebony Kirkland</li>
<li>Bishop S Y Younger</li>
<li>Rev. Jim Chandler</li>
<li>Rev. Rich Bontrager</li>
</ul><p>For more sessions, go to http://iRecharge.live to register to see all sessions</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>4655</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[5b3664a0-8a00-11ec-986f-a337fa681cda]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4274903220.mp3?updated=1644449767" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Maximizing the Impact of Your Nonprofit’s Digital Marketing Efforts</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/maximizing-the-impact-of-your-nonprofits-digital-marketing-efforts/</link>
      <description>Maximizing the Impact of Your Nonprofit’s
Digital Marketing Efforts
 
David Pisarek has been smashing the nonprofit sector for 30 years, and now he's living out his dream: to design and build websites, lead design, and branding projects, and be a general technology guru for non-profits in Canada.
He’s a design and programming expert who has taught at the college level and found his passion for sharing knowledge at his clients' businesses. Over the past five years, he and his team have completed 225 projects, so if you need some help, David and his team are the experts.
Breaking apart processes and tearing down department silos, David uses his background to effectively bridge the gaps between IT, Marketing, Communications, and Fundraising departments to align processes, streamline operations, and ultimately help his clients achieve digital success.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2022 20:55:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Maximizing the Impact of Your Nonprofit’s Digital Marketing Efforts</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with digital marketing expert, David Pizarek</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Maximizing the Impact of Your Nonprofit’s
Digital Marketing Efforts
 
David Pisarek has been smashing the nonprofit sector for 30 years, and now he's living out his dream: to design and build websites, lead design, and branding projects, and be a general technology guru for non-profits in Canada.
He’s a design and programming expert who has taught at the college level and found his passion for sharing knowledge at his clients' businesses. Over the past five years, he and his team have completed 225 projects, so if you need some help, David and his team are the experts.
Breaking apart processes and tearing down department silos, David uses his background to effectively bridge the gaps between IT, Marketing, Communications, and Fundraising departments to align processes, streamline operations, and ultimately help his clients achieve digital success.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Maximizing the Impact of Your Nonprofit’s</h1><h1>Digital Marketing Efforts</h1><h3> </h3><p><strong>David Pisarek</strong> has been smashing the nonprofit sector for 30 years, and now he's living out his dream: to design and build websites, lead design, and branding projects, and be a general technology guru for non-profits in Canada.</p><p>He’s a design and programming expert who has taught at the college level and found his passion for sharing knowledge at his clients' businesses. Over the past five years, he and his team have completed 225 projects, so if you need some help, David and his team are the experts.</p><p>Breaking apart processes and tearing down department silos, David uses his background to effectively bridge the gaps between IT, Marketing, Communications, and Fundraising departments to align processes, streamline operations, and ultimately help his clients achieve digital success.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1832</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[98cbcb64-8921-11ec-9c5a-0b7aac69d460]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2729185959.mp3?updated=1644354093" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Will College Ever Be Free???</title>
      <description>Will College Ever Be Free???
Interview with Chris Bryant

Christopher Bryant is the Vice President of Institutional Advancement at Central Virginia Community College in Lynchburg, Virginia. He oversees all fundraising and philanthropy, marketing, public relations, and scholarship management. Also, in this role, Chris is the Executive Director of the CVCC Education Foundation. Mr. Bryant began his career as a District Executive for the Blue Ridge Mountains Council in 1999. After working ten years professionally with the BSA, he left the program as a District Director to expand his career in philanthropy and marketing. Chris then served in the development offices of Presbyterian Homes &amp; Family Services (now HumanKind) in Lynchburg, Capital Caring (Hospice) in Falls Church, and Goodwin House (Senior Living Community) in Alexandria. Chris has served five nonprofits professionally, and as a board member and volunteer with United Way, National D-Day Memorial, National Powwow, Native American Jump Start, Kiwanis Club of Lynchburg, Churches for Urban Ministry, Capital District Kiwanis, Blue Ridge Mountains Council – BSA, Boy Scouts of America (nationally), Central Virginia Agency for Nonprofit Excellence, Lynchburg Covenant Fellowship, and Rotary Club of Bailey’s Crossroads.]
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      <pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2022 20:53:24 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Will College Ever Be Free???</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Nonprofit Leadership with Chris Bryant</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Will College Ever Be Free???
Interview with Chris Bryant

Christopher Bryant is the Vice President of Institutional Advancement at Central Virginia Community College in Lynchburg, Virginia. He oversees all fundraising and philanthropy, marketing, public relations, and scholarship management. Also, in this role, Chris is the Executive Director of the CVCC Education Foundation. Mr. Bryant began his career as a District Executive for the Blue Ridge Mountains Council in 1999. After working ten years professionally with the BSA, he left the program as a District Director to expand his career in philanthropy and marketing. Chris then served in the development offices of Presbyterian Homes &amp; Family Services (now HumanKind) in Lynchburg, Capital Caring (Hospice) in Falls Church, and Goodwin House (Senior Living Community) in Alexandria. Chris has served five nonprofits professionally, and as a board member and volunteer with United Way, National D-Day Memorial, National Powwow, Native American Jump Start, Kiwanis Club of Lynchburg, Churches for Urban Ministry, Capital District Kiwanis, Blue Ridge Mountains Council – BSA, Boy Scouts of America (nationally), Central Virginia Agency for Nonprofit Excellence, Lynchburg Covenant Fellowship, and Rotary Club of Bailey’s Crossroads.]
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      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Will College Ever Be Free???</h1><h1>Interview with Chris Bryant</h1><p><br></p><p><strong>Christopher Bryant</strong> is the Vice President of Institutional Advancement at Central Virginia Community College in Lynchburg, Virginia. He oversees all fundraising and philanthropy, marketing, public relations, and scholarship management. Also, in this role, Chris is the Executive Director of the CVCC Education Foundation. Mr. Bryant began his career as a District Executive for the Blue Ridge Mountains Council in 1999. After working ten years professionally with the BSA, he left the program as a District Director to expand his career in philanthropy and marketing. Chris then served in the development offices of Presbyterian Homes &amp; Family Services (now HumanKind) in Lynchburg, Capital Caring (Hospice) in Falls Church, and Goodwin House (Senior Living Community) in Alexandria. Chris has served five nonprofits professionally, and as a board member and volunteer with United Way, National D-Day Memorial, National Powwow, Native American Jump Start, Kiwanis Club of Lynchburg, Churches for Urban Ministry, Capital District Kiwanis, Blue Ridge Mountains Council – BSA, Boy Scouts of America (nationally), Central Virginia Agency for Nonprofit Excellence, Lynchburg Covenant Fellowship, and Rotary Club of Bailey’s Crossroads.]</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2182</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7372029305.mp3?updated=1643749639" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Clergy and Faith Leader Empowerment Series: Panel 1</title>
      <link>http://clergyleadership.live/</link>
      <description>Clergy and Faith Leader Empowerment Series: Panel 1
Wisdom from Rabbi Wayne Dosick, Dr. Mike Ghouse, and Rev. Kathleen Panning
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2022 17:21:03 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Clergy and Faith Leader Empowerment Series: Panel 1</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Wisdom from Rabbi Dosick, Dr. Ghouse, and Rev Panning</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Clergy and Faith Leader Empowerment Series: Panel 1
Wisdom from Rabbi Wayne Dosick, Dr. Mike Ghouse, and Rev. Kathleen Panning
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Clergy and Faith Leader Empowerment Series: Panel 1</p><p>Wisdom from Rabbi Wayne Dosick, Dr. Mike Ghouse, and Rev. Kathleen Panning</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3721</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[e378e9f0-8127-11ec-981c-433a70416a5f]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4422109286.mp3?updated=1643477186" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Networks for Social Impact About How Organization Can Work Togethe</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/networks-for-social-impact-about-how-organization-can-work-together-to-move-the-needle-on-social-issues/</link>
      <description>Networks for Social Impact About How Organization Can Work Together to Move the Needle on Social Issues With Michelle Shumate
When governments, nonprofits, and businesses come together as a “network” to address the most pressing social issues of the day, they can more easily overcome challenges related to social issue analysis, network governance, securing and managing funding, dealing with power and conflict, managing change, and utilizing data. In Networks for Social Impact, Dr. Shumate and Dr. Cooper depict when and how to use networks for social impact to improve issues related to educational outcomes, mental health and wellness, gender-based violence, climate change, senior and veteran care, and more, by providing a new framework for organizations to more seamlessly work together.

How leaders can make social impact networks more effective

The most common management dilemmas that network leaders face

Avoiding social impact dead ends

Designing networks to address different types of social issues

How nonprofits, businesses, and governments successfully collaborate on serious social problems.


Michelle Shumate is the founding director of Network for Nonprofit and Social Impact (NNSI). NNSI is a research lab dedicated to answering the question: How can nonprofit networks be rewired for maximum social impact? In addition, she is a Professor in Communication Studies and Associate Faculty at the Institute for Policy Research at Northwestern University.
﻿Her research focuses on how to design inter-organizational networks to make the most social impact. The National Science Foundation recognized her research with a CAREER award. Her research has been funded by the National Institutes of Health, National Science Foundation, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and Army Research Office. She is the author of the forthcoming book, Networks for Social Impact (Oxford University Press). Nonprofit Quarterly, Stanford Social Innovation, and the Conference board have featured her work. She offers workshops, consulting, and coaching through the Social Impact Network Consulting.
Professor Shumate holds a Ph.D. from the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Southern California.
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      <pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:14:29 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Networks for Social Impact About How Organization Can Work Togethe</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>How to Move the Needle on Social Issues With Michelle Shumate</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Networks for Social Impact About How Organization Can Work Together to Move the Needle on Social Issues With Michelle Shumate
When governments, nonprofits, and businesses come together as a “network” to address the most pressing social issues of the day, they can more easily overcome challenges related to social issue analysis, network governance, securing and managing funding, dealing with power and conflict, managing change, and utilizing data. In Networks for Social Impact, Dr. Shumate and Dr. Cooper depict when and how to use networks for social impact to improve issues related to educational outcomes, mental health and wellness, gender-based violence, climate change, senior and veteran care, and more, by providing a new framework for organizations to more seamlessly work together.

How leaders can make social impact networks more effective

The most common management dilemmas that network leaders face

Avoiding social impact dead ends

Designing networks to address different types of social issues

How nonprofits, businesses, and governments successfully collaborate on serious social problems.


Michelle Shumate is the founding director of Network for Nonprofit and Social Impact (NNSI). NNSI is a research lab dedicated to answering the question: How can nonprofit networks be rewired for maximum social impact? In addition, she is a Professor in Communication Studies and Associate Faculty at the Institute for Policy Research at Northwestern University.
﻿Her research focuses on how to design inter-organizational networks to make the most social impact. The National Science Foundation recognized her research with a CAREER award. Her research has been funded by the National Institutes of Health, National Science Foundation, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and Army Research Office. She is the author of the forthcoming book, Networks for Social Impact (Oxford University Press). Nonprofit Quarterly, Stanford Social Innovation, and the Conference board have featured her work. She offers workshops, consulting, and coaching through the Social Impact Network Consulting.
Professor Shumate holds a Ph.D. from the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Southern California.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Networks for Social Impact About How Organization Can Work Together to Move the Needle on Social Issues With Michelle Shumate</strong></h1><p>When governments, nonprofits, and businesses come together as a “network” to address the most pressing social issues of the day, they can more easily overcome challenges related to social issue analysis, network governance, securing and managing funding, dealing with power and conflict, managing change, and utilizing data. In Networks for Social Impact, Dr. Shumate and Dr. Cooper depict when and how to use networks for social impact to improve issues related to educational outcomes, mental health and wellness, gender-based violence, climate change, senior and veteran care, and more, by providing a new framework for organizations to more seamlessly work together.</p><ul>
<li>How leaders can make social impact networks more effective</li>
<li>The most common management dilemmas that network leaders face</li>
<li>Avoiding social impact dead ends</li>
<li>Designing networks to address different types of social issues</li>
<li>How nonprofits, businesses, and governments successfully collaborate on serious social problems.</li>
</ul><p><br></p><p><strong>Michelle Shumate</strong> is the founding director of <strong><em>Network for Nonprofit and Social Impact</em></strong> (NNSI). NNSI is a research lab dedicated to answering the question: How can nonprofit networks be rewired for maximum social impact? In addition, she is a Professor in Communication Studies and Associate Faculty at the Institute for Policy Research at Northwestern University.</p><p>﻿Her research focuses on how to design inter-organizational networks to make the most social impact. The National Science Foundation recognized her research with a CAREER award. Her research has been funded by the National Institutes of Health, National Science Foundation, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and Army Research Office. She is the author of the forthcoming book, Networks for Social Impact (Oxford University Press). Nonprofit Quarterly, Stanford Social Innovation, and the Conference board have featured her work. She offers workshops, consulting, and coaching through the Social Impact Network Consulting.</p><p>Professor Shumate holds a Ph.D. from the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Southern California.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2130</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Madison Avenue, Wally’s Gas Station, and a Box of Cereal </title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/madison-avenue-wallys-gas-station-and-a-box-of-cereal/</link>
      <description>Madison Avenue, Wally’s Gas Station, and a Box of Cereal 
with Rabbi Wayne Dosick, Ph. D., D. D.
Transforming our world through Radical Loving and Awesome HolinessRABBI DR. WAYNE DOSICK, Ph.D., D.D. is the founder and spiritual guide of The Elijah Minyan — bringing Spiritual Judaism and Jewish Renewal to San Diego.
Rabbi Dosick is a dynamic, inspiring, and loving educator, writer, spiritual guide and healer, who teaches and counsels 
about faith and spirit, ethical values, life tansformations, and evolving human consciousness.
He is well-known for quality scholarship and sacred spirit, his reading of traditional texts for their sense of prophetic social justice, his abiding commitment to utmost dignity and decency for every human being, and his lifetime of guiding people to a deep, personal, intimate relationship with the Divine.
He has been described as a “rational intellect with the soul of a mystic,” and he has been called “one of the most gifted teachers of our generation, who understands the mindset, needs, and yearnings of people, and responds to this intellectual and inner searching in peerless fashion. ”Recently, he has been called, “a spiritual master of our time.”
More about Rabbi Wayne Dosick at https://elijahminyan.com/rabbi-wayne
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2022 21:42:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Madison Avenue, Wally’s Gas Station, and a Box of Cereal </itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Transforming our world through Radical Loving and Awesome Holiness</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Madison Avenue, Wally’s Gas Station, and a Box of Cereal 
with Rabbi Wayne Dosick, Ph. D., D. D.
Transforming our world through Radical Loving and Awesome HolinessRABBI DR. WAYNE DOSICK, Ph.D., D.D. is the founder and spiritual guide of The Elijah Minyan — bringing Spiritual Judaism and Jewish Renewal to San Diego.
Rabbi Dosick is a dynamic, inspiring, and loving educator, writer, spiritual guide and healer, who teaches and counsels 
about faith and spirit, ethical values, life tansformations, and evolving human consciousness.
He is well-known for quality scholarship and sacred spirit, his reading of traditional texts for their sense of prophetic social justice, his abiding commitment to utmost dignity and decency for every human being, and his lifetime of guiding people to a deep, personal, intimate relationship with the Divine.
He has been described as a “rational intellect with the soul of a mystic,” and he has been called “one of the most gifted teachers of our generation, who understands the mindset, needs, and yearnings of people, and responds to this intellectual and inner searching in peerless fashion. ”Recently, he has been called, “a spiritual master of our time.”
More about Rabbi Wayne Dosick at https://elijahminyan.com/rabbi-wayne
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Madison Avenue, Wally’s Gas Station, and a Box of Cereal </h1><h1>with Rabbi Wayne Dosick, Ph. D., D. D.</h1>Transforming our world through Radical Loving and Awesome Holiness<p><strong>RABBI DR. WAYNE DOSICK</strong>, Ph.D., D.D. is the founder and spiritual guide of The Elijah Minyan — bringing Spiritual Judaism and Jewish Renewal to San Diego.</p><p>Rabbi Dosick is a dynamic, inspiring, and loving educator, writer, spiritual guide and healer, who teaches and counsels </p><p>about faith and spirit, ethical values, life tansformations, and evolving human consciousness.</p><p>He is well-known for quality scholarship and sacred spirit, his reading of traditional texts for their sense of prophetic social justice, his abiding commitment to utmost dignity and decency for every human being, and his lifetime of guiding people to a deep, personal, intimate relationship with the Divine.</p><p>He has been described as a “rational intellect with the soul of a mystic,” and he has been called “one of the most gifted teachers of our generation, who understands the mindset, needs, and yearnings of people, and responds to this intellectual and inner searching in peerless fashion. ”Recently, he has been called, “a spiritual master of our time.”</p><p>More about Rabbi Wayne Dosick at <a href="https://elijahminyan.com/rabbi-wayne"><strong>https://elijahminyan.com/rabbi-wayne</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2299</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7535358704.mp3?updated=1641938022" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What Can LinkedIn Do for Nonprofits?</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/linkedin-for-nonprofits/</link>
      <description>What Can LinkedIn Do for Nonprofits?
Interview with LinkedIn Specialist, Carol Kaemmerer
LinkedIn is THE place where business professionals such as your prospective Board members, volunteers, and donors can be found -- so it behooves every nonprofit leader to have a solid presence there as well. Having a company page for the nonprofit is important too, because it gives your nonprofit added credibility and helps staff, Board members, and volunteers proudly list their affiliation with the organization. And then, there is the opportunity to share your nonprofit's photos and stories of beneficiaries online to share the message with people who don't spend their time on Facebook. It's free to use and is a powerful tool. Join this session to hear how you can leverage this powerful business tool for your nonprofit.
Carol Kaemmerer is an internationally recognized personal branding expert, professional speaker, and author of the award-winning book LinkedIn for the Savvy Executive, now available in its Second Edition. Prior to her focus on LinkedIn and personal branding, she was a marketing communications consultant for 20 years with a Fortune 500 medical device company. 
Since 2011, Carol has focused her communications expertise on helping C-suite executives and senior leaders use LinkedIn powerfully, creating positioning and messaging that reflects their business passion with authenticity. Pairing her flair for communicating with her deep knowledge of the ever-changing LinkedIn platform, she optimizes her clients’ ability to be found on this essential social medium to increase their visibility and influence, attract high-performing talent and steer their careers.
As a professional member of the National Speakers Association, Certified Virtual Presenter, and Advisor to the C-Suite Network, Carol is a popular speaker and corporate trainer.
More about Carol and her work, go to https://carolkaemmerer.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 04 Jan 2022 21:16:38 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>What Can LinkedIn Do for Nonprofits?</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with LinkedIn Specialist, Carol Kaemmerer</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>What Can LinkedIn Do for Nonprofits?
Interview with LinkedIn Specialist, Carol Kaemmerer
LinkedIn is THE place where business professionals such as your prospective Board members, volunteers, and donors can be found -- so it behooves every nonprofit leader to have a solid presence there as well. Having a company page for the nonprofit is important too, because it gives your nonprofit added credibility and helps staff, Board members, and volunteers proudly list their affiliation with the organization. And then, there is the opportunity to share your nonprofit's photos and stories of beneficiaries online to share the message with people who don't spend their time on Facebook. It's free to use and is a powerful tool. Join this session to hear how you can leverage this powerful business tool for your nonprofit.
Carol Kaemmerer is an internationally recognized personal branding expert, professional speaker, and author of the award-winning book LinkedIn for the Savvy Executive, now available in its Second Edition. Prior to her focus on LinkedIn and personal branding, she was a marketing communications consultant for 20 years with a Fortune 500 medical device company. 
Since 2011, Carol has focused her communications expertise on helping C-suite executives and senior leaders use LinkedIn powerfully, creating positioning and messaging that reflects their business passion with authenticity. Pairing her flair for communicating with her deep knowledge of the ever-changing LinkedIn platform, she optimizes her clients’ ability to be found on this essential social medium to increase their visibility and influence, attract high-performing talent and steer their careers.
As a professional member of the National Speakers Association, Certified Virtual Presenter, and Advisor to the C-Suite Network, Carol is a popular speaker and corporate trainer.
More about Carol and her work, go to https://carolkaemmerer.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>What Can LinkedIn Do for Nonprofits?</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with LinkedIn Specialist, Carol Kaemmerer</strong></h1><p>LinkedIn is THE place where business professionals such as your prospective Board members, volunteers, and donors can be found -- so it behooves every nonprofit leader to have a solid presence there as well. Having a company page for the nonprofit is important too, because it gives your nonprofit added credibility and helps staff, Board members, and volunteers proudly list their affiliation with the organization. And then, there is the opportunity to share your nonprofit's photos and stories of beneficiaries online to share the message with people who don't spend their time on Facebook. It's free to use and is a powerful tool. Join this session to hear how you can leverage this powerful business tool for your nonprofit.</p><p><strong>Carol Kaemmerer</strong> is an internationally recognized personal branding expert, professional speaker, and author of the award-winning book LinkedIn for the Savvy Executive, now available in its Second Edition. Prior to her focus on LinkedIn and personal branding, she was a marketing communications consultant for 20 years with a Fortune 500 medical device company. </p><p>Since 2011, Carol has focused her communications expertise on helping C-suite executives and senior leaders use LinkedIn powerfully, creating positioning and messaging that reflects their business passion with authenticity. Pairing her flair for communicating with her deep knowledge of the ever-changing LinkedIn platform, she optimizes her clients’ ability to be found on this essential social medium to increase their visibility and influence, attract high-performing talent and steer their careers.</p><p>As a professional member of the National Speakers Association, Certified Virtual Presenter, and Advisor to the C-Suite Network, Carol is a popular speaker and corporate trainer.</p><p>More about Carol and her work, go to <a href="https://carolkaemmerer.com/"><strong>https://carolkaemmerer.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2088</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Making Grant Management Practical</title>
      <description>Making Grant Management Practical with Grant and Contract Management Expert Ansley Fender
Grant management costs an average of 20% of grant funding, which means that a pretty significant amount of funding is going to overhead rather than programs and services. A lot of nonprofits end up having to hire more people just to manage their grants, which further cuts into the funding. This is crazy considering how much of a public good nonprofits provide to society. COVID, for example, highlighted the fact that when the private sector is shutting down and the public sector can't move fast enough, the nonprofit sector steps it up. Because grant management software like Blackbaud is so expensive, a lot of grant managers have tried to force accounting software like Quickbooks to do grant management, which it was never intended to do. The result is messy books that are moderately ok for grant management but terrible for internal and Board management. The other option is spreadsheets, which require so much additional work and are shockingly easy to break. Atlas' mission is to support the mission of grant-funded and grant-seeking nonprofits by streamlining and automating their grant management so they can recapture the 20% lost to traditional grant management. We exist because they do.
Ansley Fender's entrepreneurial journey began when she was pregnant with her second child. Despite being at a critical juncture in her life, she took a leap of faith and quit her job to start her own business. The concept for Atlas was born while Ansley was doing bookkeeping for nonprofits. She saw that as much as 30% of grant funding was going into administrative costs. Not only that, but the assistants handling those duties were being overworked. Atlas’ software helps lighten the load by scouring databases to match funders with funding recipients. On the days that being a startup founder is especially difficult, Ansley gets inspiration from her two fearless little girls.
More about Ansley's work at https://www.getatlassolutions.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2021 21:43:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Making Grant Management Practical</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Grant and Contract Management Expert, Ansley Fender</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Making Grant Management Practical with Grant and Contract Management Expert Ansley Fender
Grant management costs an average of 20% of grant funding, which means that a pretty significant amount of funding is going to overhead rather than programs and services. A lot of nonprofits end up having to hire more people just to manage their grants, which further cuts into the funding. This is crazy considering how much of a public good nonprofits provide to society. COVID, for example, highlighted the fact that when the private sector is shutting down and the public sector can't move fast enough, the nonprofit sector steps it up. Because grant management software like Blackbaud is so expensive, a lot of grant managers have tried to force accounting software like Quickbooks to do grant management, which it was never intended to do. The result is messy books that are moderately ok for grant management but terrible for internal and Board management. The other option is spreadsheets, which require so much additional work and are shockingly easy to break. Atlas' mission is to support the mission of grant-funded and grant-seeking nonprofits by streamlining and automating their grant management so they can recapture the 20% lost to traditional grant management. We exist because they do.
Ansley Fender's entrepreneurial journey began when she was pregnant with her second child. Despite being at a critical juncture in her life, she took a leap of faith and quit her job to start her own business. The concept for Atlas was born while Ansley was doing bookkeeping for nonprofits. She saw that as much as 30% of grant funding was going into administrative costs. Not only that, but the assistants handling those duties were being overworked. Atlas’ software helps lighten the load by scouring databases to match funders with funding recipients. On the days that being a startup founder is especially difficult, Ansley gets inspiration from her two fearless little girls.
More about Ansley's work at https://www.getatlassolutions.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Making Grant Management Practical with Grant and Contract Management Expert Ansley Fender</strong></h1><p>Grant management costs an average of 20% of grant funding, which means that a pretty significant amount of funding is going to overhead rather than programs and services. A lot of nonprofits end up having to hire more people just to manage their grants, which further cuts into the funding. This is crazy considering how much of a public good nonprofits provide to society. COVID, for example, highlighted the fact that when the private sector is shutting down and the public sector can't move fast enough, the nonprofit sector steps it up. Because grant management software like Blackbaud is so expensive, a lot of grant managers have tried to force accounting software like Quickbooks to do grant management, which it was never intended to do. The result is messy books that are moderately ok for grant management but terrible for internal and Board management. The other option is spreadsheets, which require so much additional work and are shockingly easy to break. Atlas' mission is to support the mission of grant-funded and grant-seeking nonprofits by streamlining and automating their grant management so they can recapture the 20% lost to traditional grant management. We exist because they do.</p><p><strong>Ansley Fender's</strong> entrepreneurial journey began when she was pregnant with her second child. Despite being at a critical juncture in her life, she took a leap of faith and quit her job to start her own business. The concept for Atlas was born while Ansley was doing bookkeeping for nonprofits. She saw that as much as 30% of grant funding was going into administrative costs. Not only that, but the assistants handling those duties were being overworked. Atlas’ software helps lighten the load by scouring databases to match funders with funding recipients. On the days that being a startup founder is especially difficult, Ansley gets inspiration from her two fearless little girls.</p><p>More about Ansley's work at <a href="https://www.getatlassolutions.com/"><strong>https://www.getatlassolutions.com/</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2001</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[2af0fffa-62a8-11ec-b586-af7824a7aa38]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5859428778.mp3?updated=1640123796" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Getting the Most Out of Your People: Management Lessons from Building a Nonprofit Startup</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-people/</link>
      <description>Getting the Most Out of Your People: Management Lessons from Building a Nonprofit Startup
Interview with Diana Zhang
What Diana says about this interview:
"I'd love to share the management lessons I've learned so far from building our nonprofit startup, NeighborShare, from scratch over the past year. Coming from 15 years' worth of training as a "for-profit" executive, I've found that those skills were directly applicable to the "for purpose" space I am now in, with some twists. For example, how do you build a high-performing team capable of building an entire organization from scratch, except you have to do it 100% remotely and you can't afford to pay them?"
﻿Diana Zhang is the CEO and Co-Founder of NeighborShare, a rapidly-growing direct giving approach that empowers our communities' frontline heroes to help families through critical moments with the need of $400 or less. Diana brings 15 years of experience in strategy, operations, and scaling, having served in several executive roles at Bridgewater Associates, a premier asset management firm. Outside of work, Diana is passionate about food: cooking it, eating it, sharing it, photographing it, and advocating on behalf of those who lack access to it. She serves on the Board of Connecticut Foodshare. Diana graduated summa cum laude with a B.A. in Economics and Government from Dartmouth College.
More about NeighborShare at https://nbshare.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2021 21:50:49 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Getting the Most Out of Your People: Management Lessons from Building a Nonprofit Startup</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Co-Founder of NeighborShare, Diana Zhang</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Getting the Most Out of Your People: Management Lessons from Building a Nonprofit Startup
Interview with Diana Zhang
What Diana says about this interview:
"I'd love to share the management lessons I've learned so far from building our nonprofit startup, NeighborShare, from scratch over the past year. Coming from 15 years' worth of training as a "for-profit" executive, I've found that those skills were directly applicable to the "for purpose" space I am now in, with some twists. For example, how do you build a high-performing team capable of building an entire organization from scratch, except you have to do it 100% remotely and you can't afford to pay them?"
﻿Diana Zhang is the CEO and Co-Founder of NeighborShare, a rapidly-growing direct giving approach that empowers our communities' frontline heroes to help families through critical moments with the need of $400 or less. Diana brings 15 years of experience in strategy, operations, and scaling, having served in several executive roles at Bridgewater Associates, a premier asset management firm. Outside of work, Diana is passionate about food: cooking it, eating it, sharing it, photographing it, and advocating on behalf of those who lack access to it. She serves on the Board of Connecticut Foodshare. Diana graduated summa cum laude with a B.A. in Economics and Government from Dartmouth College.
More about NeighborShare at https://nbshare.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Getting the Most Out of Your People: Management Lessons from Building a Nonprofit Startup</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Diana Zhang</strong></h1><p>What Diana says about this interview:</p><p><em>"I'd love to share the management lessons I've learned so far from building our nonprofit startup, NeighborShare, from scratch over the past year. Coming from 15 years' worth of training as a "for-profit" executive, I've found that those skills were directly applicable to the "for purpose" space I am now in, with some twists. For example, how do you build a high-performing team capable of building an entire organization from scratch, except you have to do it 100% remotely and you can't afford to pay them?"</em></p><p>﻿<strong>Diana Zhang</strong> is the CEO and Co-Founder of NeighborShare, a rapidly-growing direct giving approach that empowers our communities' frontline heroes to help families through critical moments with the need of $400 or less. Diana brings 15 years of experience in strategy, operations, and scaling, having served in several executive roles at Bridgewater Associates, a premier asset management firm. Outside of work, Diana is passionate about food: cooking it, eating it, sharing it, photographing it, and advocating on behalf of those who lack access to it. She serves on the Board of Connecticut Foodshare. Diana graduated summa cum laude with a B.A. in Economics and Government from Dartmouth College.</p><p>More about NeighborShare at <a href="https://nbshare.org/"><strong>https://nbshare.org</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2139</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8315931204.mp3?updated=1639519253" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Clergy Leadership Challenges with Hugh Ballou</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/clergy-leadership-challenges/</link>
      <description>Clergy Leadership Challenges
with Hugh Ballou
In this short "T-Talk" (Transformation Talk) in the faith leader empowerment series, Hugh Ballou addresses the 5 top leadership challenges for clergy and all faith leaders:

Self-Management

Conflict Management

Clarity of Vision

Over Functioning

Emotional Control


Hugh Ballou works with visionary leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction. through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning. With 40 years as musical conductor, Ballou uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills creating a culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director while allowing each person to excel in their personal discipline while empowering the culture as a whole.
In his work with Social Entrepreneurs and corporate executives for 32+ years applying his unique transformational leadership concepts, he has developed comprehensive systems and strategies for empowering leadership leading social change His books, e-Books, online programs and live presentations have impact on leaders worldwide with his unique and proprietary leadership methodology that integrates strategy with performance unlike the traditional consultant model.
Register for the Faith Leader Empowerment Series at http://iRecharge.live
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2021 20:25:23 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Clergy Leadership Challenges with Hugh Ballou</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Clergy Leadership Challenges with Hugh Ballou</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Clergy Leadership Challenges
with Hugh Ballou
In this short "T-Talk" (Transformation Talk) in the faith leader empowerment series, Hugh Ballou addresses the 5 top leadership challenges for clergy and all faith leaders:

Self-Management

Conflict Management

Clarity of Vision

Over Functioning

Emotional Control


Hugh Ballou works with visionary leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction. through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning. With 40 years as musical conductor, Ballou uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills creating a culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director while allowing each person to excel in their personal discipline while empowering the culture as a whole.
In his work with Social Entrepreneurs and corporate executives for 32+ years applying his unique transformational leadership concepts, he has developed comprehensive systems and strategies for empowering leadership leading social change His books, e-Books, online programs and live presentations have impact on leaders worldwide with his unique and proprietary leadership methodology that integrates strategy with performance unlike the traditional consultant model.
Register for the Faith Leader Empowerment Series at http://iRecharge.live
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Clergy Leadership Challenges</strong></h1><h1><strong>with Hugh Ballou</strong></h1><p>In this short "T-Talk" (Transformation Talk) in the faith leader empowerment series, Hugh Ballou addresses the 5 top leadership challenges for clergy and all faith leaders:</p><ol>
<li>Self-Management</li>
<li>Conflict Management</li>
<li>Clarity of Vision</li>
<li>Over Functioning</li>
<li>Emotional Control</li>
</ol><p><br></p><p><strong>Hugh Ballou</strong> works with visionary leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction. through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning. With 40 years as musical conductor, Ballou uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills creating a culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director while allowing each person to excel in their personal discipline while empowering the culture as a whole.</p><p>In his work with Social Entrepreneurs and corporate executives for 32+ years applying his unique transformational leadership concepts, he has developed comprehensive systems and strategies for empowering leadership leading social change His books, e-Books, online programs and live presentations have impact on leaders worldwide with his unique and proprietary leadership methodology that integrates strategy with performance unlike the traditional consultant model.</p><strong>Register for the Faith Leader Empowerment Series at </strong><a href="http://irecharge.live/"><strong>http://iRecharge.live</strong></a><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1493</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[003ce272-579c-11ec-bde2-27fe6e44528a]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9772140198.mp3?updated=1638909108" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Don't Let Your Emotions Hijack your Success: Emotional Intelligence in Leadership</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/dont-let-your-emotions-hijack-your-success/</link>
      <description>Don't Let Your Emotions Hijack your Success: Emotional Intelligence in Leadership

Leadership is more than just organizational, technical and tactical skills; it involves relational skills. Emotional intelligence allows all types of leaders to navigate the relational, behavioral, and cultural aspects of leading an organization. In order to succeed, one must master the skills of managing his/her own emotions and navigating the emotions of others.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 2021 20:11:53 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Don't Let Your Emotions Hijack your Success: Emotional Intelligence in Leadership</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dr. Reggie Thomas</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Don't Let Your Emotions Hijack your Success: Emotional Intelligence in Leadership

Leadership is more than just organizational, technical and tactical skills; it involves relational skills. Emotional intelligence allows all types of leaders to navigate the relational, behavioral, and cultural aspects of leading an organization. In order to succeed, one must master the skills of managing his/her own emotions and navigating the emotions of others.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Don't Let Your Emotions Hijack your Success: Emotional Intelligence in Leadership</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>Leadership is more than just organizational, technical and tactical skills; it involves relational skills. Emotional intelligence allows all types of leaders to navigate the relational, behavioral, and cultural aspects of leading an organization. In order to succeed, one must master the skills of managing his/her own emotions and navigating the emotions of others.</p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2374</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[06bf6d72-521a-11ec-8c3b-6fb4707ae2b7]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9565898047.mp3?updated=1638303531" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Changemaking Through Philanthropy</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/changemaking-through-philanthropy/</link>
      <description>Changemaking Through Philanthropy: Leveraging Philanthropy As A Force For Social Change 
Interview with Jay and Shira RudermanAs opposed to simply funding grantees’ initiatives, a proactive foundation takes its ideas to the community that it is trying to change for the better. Then, success has been achieved when that entire community’s values have changed.
Foundations and philanthropists do not need to be afraid of making bold public statements or even of instigating controversy.
Foundations and philanthropists that are seeking to become changemakers are best served focusing on a relatively narrow cause and making a deep impact in that space — and becoming the expert in that arena — rather than “being everything for everyone” and spreading their work among numerous causes.
Jay Ruderman has focused his life’s work on seeking social justice by advocating for people with disabilities worldwide. As President of the Ruderman Family Foundation, his ambitious approach has led the foundation to become a national and international leader in inclusion and disability rights advocacy. Jay’s emphasis on philanthropy has been instrumental in the foundation creating programs around the world, raising awareness on social media and the creation of the foundation’s often cited white papers. He has never shied away from controversy, consistently challenging Hollywood and those in power to push issues forward. Jay has previously worked as an Assistant District Attorney. He served on the Board of Directors of the Jewish Funders Network and the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee.
Shira Ruderman, Executive Director of the Ruderman Family Foundation, is a professional philanthropist and social activist. She serves as a board member of various organizations and associations in Israel and the United States and is currently serving as Chairwoman of the Fulbright Foundation. She works to generate momentum for an approach to philanthropy which believes in strategic giving, involvement and social entrepreneurship.
More about the Ruderman Foundation at https://rudermanfoundation.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2021 19:56:10 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Changemaking Through Philanthropy</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leveraging Philanthropy As A Force For Social Change </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Changemaking Through Philanthropy: Leveraging Philanthropy As A Force For Social Change 
Interview with Jay and Shira RudermanAs opposed to simply funding grantees’ initiatives, a proactive foundation takes its ideas to the community that it is trying to change for the better. Then, success has been achieved when that entire community’s values have changed.
Foundations and philanthropists do not need to be afraid of making bold public statements or even of instigating controversy.
Foundations and philanthropists that are seeking to become changemakers are best served focusing on a relatively narrow cause and making a deep impact in that space — and becoming the expert in that arena — rather than “being everything for everyone” and spreading their work among numerous causes.
Jay Ruderman has focused his life’s work on seeking social justice by advocating for people with disabilities worldwide. As President of the Ruderman Family Foundation, his ambitious approach has led the foundation to become a national and international leader in inclusion and disability rights advocacy. Jay’s emphasis on philanthropy has been instrumental in the foundation creating programs around the world, raising awareness on social media and the creation of the foundation’s often cited white papers. He has never shied away from controversy, consistently challenging Hollywood and those in power to push issues forward. Jay has previously worked as an Assistant District Attorney. He served on the Board of Directors of the Jewish Funders Network and the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee.
Shira Ruderman, Executive Director of the Ruderman Family Foundation, is a professional philanthropist and social activist. She serves as a board member of various organizations and associations in Israel and the United States and is currently serving as Chairwoman of the Fulbright Foundation. She works to generate momentum for an approach to philanthropy which believes in strategic giving, involvement and social entrepreneurship.
More about the Ruderman Foundation at https://rudermanfoundation.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Changemaking Through Philanthropy: Leveraging Philanthropy As A Force For Social Change </strong></h1><strong>Interview with Jay and Shira Ruderman</strong><p>As opposed to simply funding grantees’ initiatives, a proactive foundation takes its ideas to the community that it is trying to change for the better. Then, success has been achieved when that entire community’s values have changed.</p><p>Foundations and philanthropists do not need to be afraid of making bold public statements or even of instigating controversy.</p><p>Foundations and philanthropists that are seeking to become changemakers are best served focusing on a relatively narrow cause and making a deep impact in that space — and becoming the expert in that arena — rather than “being everything for everyone” and spreading their work among numerous causes.</p><p><strong>Jay Ruderman</strong> has focused his life’s work on seeking social justice by advocating for people with disabilities worldwide. As President of the Ruderman Family Foundation, his ambitious approach has led the foundation to become a national and international leader in inclusion and disability rights advocacy. Jay’s emphasis on philanthropy has been instrumental in the foundation creating programs around the world, raising awareness on social media and the creation of the foundation’s often cited white papers. He has never shied away from controversy, consistently challenging Hollywood and those in power to push issues forward. Jay has previously worked as an Assistant District Attorney. He served on the Board of Directors of the Jewish Funders Network and the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee.</p><p><strong>Shira Ruderman</strong>, Executive Director of the Ruderman Family Foundation, is a professional philanthropist and social activist. She serves as a board member of various organizations and associations in Israel and the United States and is currently serving as Chairwoman of the Fulbright Foundation. She works to generate momentum for an approach to philanthropy which believes in strategic giving, involvement and social entrepreneurship.</p><p>More about the Ruderman Foundation at <a href="https://rudermanfoundation.org/"><strong>https://rudermanfoundation.org</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2345</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f96b1f98-4c9e-11ec-b602-f3e16446b50d]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1203385732.mp3?updated=1637700921" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Clergy Leadership Intensive Webinar</title>
      <link>https://synervision.kartra.com/page/clergyintensive</link>
      <description>The Clergy Leadership Intensive Webinar
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 20 Nov 2021 16:37:57 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Clergy Leadership Intensive Webinar</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Clergy Leadership Intensive Webinar</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Clergy Leadership Intensive Webinar
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>The Clergy Leadership Intensive Webinar</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>5541</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[bbdfd4f0-4a20-11ec-bf49-03a6e708d7cf]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8593380571.mp3?updated=1637426799" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Shortcut to Leadership Excellence</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/the-shortcut-to-leadership-excellence/</link>
      <description>The Shortcut to Leadership Excellence
Interview with Scott Drake
Scott Drake is the Founder and Executive Director at JumpCoach, a social enterprise on a mission to make best-in-class leadership training available to everyone who needs it.
Scott’s journey into leadership was long, painful, and he made every mistake in the book. It took him 10 years to thrive as a leader and not feel like an imposter.
When he became a leader of leaders, he saw next-generation leaders making the same mistakes and having the same struggles. Selfishly, he couldn’t spend 10 years watching new leaders wreck his teams while they figured out how to lead, so he began searching for a faster way to teach leadership. That search turned into a five-year research project and the innovations that are now JumpCoach.
Prior to JumpCoach, Scott was Vice President of Technology for medical education disrupter ScholarRx, and his 25-year career includes stops at Microsoft in Redmond, Washington, and start-ups in Silicon Valley.

For more about Scott, go to - http://jumpcoach.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2021 20:12:30 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Shortcut to Leadership Excellence</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Scott Drake</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Shortcut to Leadership Excellence
Interview with Scott Drake
Scott Drake is the Founder and Executive Director at JumpCoach, a social enterprise on a mission to make best-in-class leadership training available to everyone who needs it.
Scott’s journey into leadership was long, painful, and he made every mistake in the book. It took him 10 years to thrive as a leader and not feel like an imposter.
When he became a leader of leaders, he saw next-generation leaders making the same mistakes and having the same struggles. Selfishly, he couldn’t spend 10 years watching new leaders wreck his teams while they figured out how to lead, so he began searching for a faster way to teach leadership. That search turned into a five-year research project and the innovations that are now JumpCoach.
Prior to JumpCoach, Scott was Vice President of Technology for medical education disrupter ScholarRx, and his 25-year career includes stops at Microsoft in Redmond, Washington, and start-ups in Silicon Valley.

For more about Scott, go to - http://jumpcoach.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>The Shortcut to Leadership Excellence</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Scott Drake</strong></h1><p><strong>Scott Drake</strong> is the Founder and Executive Director at JumpCoach, a social enterprise on a mission to make best-in-class leadership training available to everyone who needs it.</p><p>Scott’s journey into leadership was long, painful, and he made every mistake in the book. It took him 10 years to thrive as a leader and not feel like an imposter.</p><p>When he became a leader of leaders, he saw next-generation leaders making the same mistakes and having the same struggles. Selfishly, he couldn’t spend 10 years watching new leaders wreck his teams while they figured out how to lead, so he began searching for a faster way to teach leadership. That search turned into a five-year research project and the innovations that are now JumpCoach.</p><p>Prior to JumpCoach, Scott was Vice President of Technology for medical education disrupter ScholarRx, and his 25-year career includes stops at Microsoft in Redmond, Washington, and start-ups in Silicon Valley.</p><p><br></p><p>For more about Scott, go to - <a href="http://jumpcoach.com/"><strong>http://jumpcoach.com/</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2098</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f7b36302-4719-11ec-b565-03acc93d12ef]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4292957844.mp3?updated=1637094041" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leading From The Jumpseat: How to Create Extraordinary Opportunities by Handing Over Contro</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/leading-from-the-jumpseat-how-to-create-extraordinary-opportunities-by-handing-over-control/</link>
      <description>Leading From The Jumpseat: How to Create Extraordinary Opportunities by Handing Over Control Interview with Peter Docker
When something really matters to us, it releases an energy that has us run towards any challenge. And yet, in business and in life, regardless of how committed we are to a cause, handing over the reins to others is inevitable. Everyone will eventually leave their team, retire from being the CEO, or see their kids leave home and lead their own lives. Leading from the Jumpseat enables us to embrace this inevitability and is a metaphor for how we can choose to lead. It’s about the journey we take so we can hand over control to others, who are then equipped to continue forward.
Jumpseat Leadership is a way of interacting with people that will enhance performance in any given situation – during normal business, times of crisis, and life in general.

Peter Docker is passionate about enabling people to unlock their natural talents. He teaches leadership that is focused on commitment and human connection. This approach harnesses the collective wisdom of teams to generate extraordinary outcomes. He illustrates his insights by drawing on examples from his previous industry, flying, and military careers to explain powerful concepts that can be applied in any business.
Peter worked with Simon Sinek for over 7 years and was one of the founding ‘Igniters’ on Simon’s team. He took his years of practical experience to co-author Find Your Why: A Practical Guide for Discovering Purpose for You and Your Team, with Simon and David Mead. Published in September 2017, it has been translated into more than 25 languages and has sold over 420,000 copies. 
In December 2019, Peter stepped away from Simon’s team to focus on sharing his wider insights into how organisations thrive. His new book, Leading From The Jumpseat: How to Create Extraordinary Opportunities by Handing Over Control, will be published in October 2021.
A trained leadership consultant and executive coach, Peter’s commercial and industry experience has been at the most senior levels in sectors including oil &amp; gas, construction, mining, pharmaceuticals, banking, television, film, media, print, hospitality, manufacturing, and services – across 92 countries. His clients include Google, Four Seasons Hotels, Accenture, American Express, ASOS, EY, NBC Universal, and over 100 more.
Peter served for 25 years as a Royal Air Force senior officer has been a Force Commander during combat flying operations and has seen service across the globe. His career has spanned from professional pilot to leading an aviation training and standards organisation, teaching postgraduates at the UK’s Defence College, to flying the British prime minister around the world. Peter has also led multibillion-dollar international procurement projects and served as a crisis manager and former international negotiator for the UK government. He has been married to his wife Claire for 33 years and has two grown-up children from whom he learns a great deal!
More about Peter Docker and his work at https://www.whynotunlimited.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 02 Nov 2021 19:31:21 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leading From The Jumpseat: How to Create Extraordinary Opportunities by Handing Over Contro</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Peter Docker</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leading From The Jumpseat: How to Create Extraordinary Opportunities by Handing Over Control Interview with Peter Docker
When something really matters to us, it releases an energy that has us run towards any challenge. And yet, in business and in life, regardless of how committed we are to a cause, handing over the reins to others is inevitable. Everyone will eventually leave their team, retire from being the CEO, or see their kids leave home and lead their own lives. Leading from the Jumpseat enables us to embrace this inevitability and is a metaphor for how we can choose to lead. It’s about the journey we take so we can hand over control to others, who are then equipped to continue forward.
Jumpseat Leadership is a way of interacting with people that will enhance performance in any given situation – during normal business, times of crisis, and life in general.

Peter Docker is passionate about enabling people to unlock their natural talents. He teaches leadership that is focused on commitment and human connection. This approach harnesses the collective wisdom of teams to generate extraordinary outcomes. He illustrates his insights by drawing on examples from his previous industry, flying, and military careers to explain powerful concepts that can be applied in any business.
Peter worked with Simon Sinek for over 7 years and was one of the founding ‘Igniters’ on Simon’s team. He took his years of practical experience to co-author Find Your Why: A Practical Guide for Discovering Purpose for You and Your Team, with Simon and David Mead. Published in September 2017, it has been translated into more than 25 languages and has sold over 420,000 copies. 
In December 2019, Peter stepped away from Simon’s team to focus on sharing his wider insights into how organisations thrive. His new book, Leading From The Jumpseat: How to Create Extraordinary Opportunities by Handing Over Control, will be published in October 2021.
A trained leadership consultant and executive coach, Peter’s commercial and industry experience has been at the most senior levels in sectors including oil &amp; gas, construction, mining, pharmaceuticals, banking, television, film, media, print, hospitality, manufacturing, and services – across 92 countries. His clients include Google, Four Seasons Hotels, Accenture, American Express, ASOS, EY, NBC Universal, and over 100 more.
Peter served for 25 years as a Royal Air Force senior officer has been a Force Commander during combat flying operations and has seen service across the globe. His career has spanned from professional pilot to leading an aviation training and standards organisation, teaching postgraduates at the UK’s Defence College, to flying the British prime minister around the world. Peter has also led multibillion-dollar international procurement projects and served as a crisis manager and former international negotiator for the UK government. He has been married to his wife Claire for 33 years and has two grown-up children from whom he learns a great deal!
More about Peter Docker and his work at https://www.whynotunlimited.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Leading From The Jumpseat: How to Create Extraordinary Opportunities by Handing Over Control Interview with Peter Docker</h1><p>When something really matters to us, it releases an energy that has us run towards any challenge. And yet, in business and in life, regardless of how committed we are to a cause, handing over the reins to others is inevitable. Everyone will eventually leave their team, retire from being the CEO, or see their kids leave home and lead their own lives. Leading from the Jumpseat enables us to embrace this inevitability and is a metaphor for how we can choose to lead. It’s about the journey we take so we can hand over control to others, who are then equipped to continue forward.</p><p>Jumpseat Leadership is a way of interacting with people that will enhance performance in any given situation – during normal business, times of crisis, and life in general.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Peter Docker</strong> is passionate about enabling people to unlock their natural talents. He teaches leadership that is focused on commitment and human connection. This approach harnesses the collective wisdom of teams to generate extraordinary outcomes. He illustrates his insights by drawing on examples from his previous industry, flying, and military careers to explain powerful concepts that can be applied in any business.</p><p>Peter worked with Simon Sinek for over 7 years and was one of the founding ‘Igniters’ on Simon’s team. He took his years of practical experience to co-author Find Your Why: A Practical Guide for Discovering Purpose for You and Your Team, with Simon and David Mead. Published in September 2017, it has been translated into more than 25 languages and has sold over 420,000 copies. </p><p>In December 2019, Peter stepped away from Simon’s team to focus on sharing his wider insights into how organisations thrive. His new book, Leading From The Jumpseat: How to Create Extraordinary Opportunities by Handing Over Control, will be published in October 2021.</p><p>A trained leadership consultant and executive coach, Peter’s commercial and industry experience has been at the most senior levels in sectors including oil &amp; gas, construction, mining, pharmaceuticals, banking, television, film, media, print, hospitality, manufacturing, and services – across 92 countries. His clients include Google, Four Seasons Hotels, Accenture, American Express, ASOS, EY, NBC Universal, and over 100 more.</p><p>Peter served for 25 years as a Royal Air Force senior officer has been a Force Commander during combat flying operations and has seen service across the globe. His career has spanned from professional pilot to leading an aviation training and standards organisation, teaching postgraduates at the UK’s Defence College, to flying the British prime minister around the world. Peter has also led multibillion-dollar international procurement projects and served as a crisis manager and former international negotiator for the UK government. He has been married to his wife Claire for 33 years and has two grown-up children from whom he learns a great deal!</p><p>More about Peter Docker and his work at <a href="https://www.whynotunlimited.com"><strong>https://www.whynotunlimited.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2551</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Using Competition To Drive Results</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/the-power-of-incentives-how-grantmakers-use-competition-to-drive-results/</link>
      <description>Competition To Drive Results
Interview with Jaison Morgan
Carrot is the market leader in the development and management of large-scale and highly technical grantmaking and procurement protocols. As a service business, Carrot works closely with philanthropic, government, and corporate entities to help them improve their search for new talent and technical solutions to some of the leading challenges around the world. Therefore, Carrot offers a unique perspective on what those grantmakers and sponsors are seeking and how that process works. As the field continues to move towards more specific methods for engaging problem-solvers and democratizing procurement, it is important to understand how that can translate into a more open, transparent, and fair experience for those seeking funding.
Jaison Morgan has been recognized by the BBC as “the world’s expert” in designing prizes and challenge competitions to drive innovative breakthroughs. He helped establish a lab at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2007 to study how targeted rewards can be used to induce new solutions to engineering obstacles. Today, he manages the day-to-day operations of Carrot as the Founder and CEO. Carrot is the market leader in the design, development, and operation of large-scale incentive programming. Carrot has been responsible for such initiatives as the MacArthur Foundation’s 100&amp;Change, offering a single $100 million grant to the winning team, and the NASA Tech Leap prize, a new portal to open-source the development of mission-critical objectives for satellite technologies. Established in 2010, Carrot has compiled over 40 other case studies on their website, www.carrot.net, which include philanthropic, corporate, and government sponsors around the world. Jaison completed graduate studies at the University of Chicago and is a frequent lecturer on the subject of incentive engineering. He is from Richmond, Virginia, but currently lives in Santa Monica, California, where is happily raising two teenagers.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2021 23:52:18 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Using Competition To Drive Results</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Jaison Morgan</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Competition To Drive Results
Interview with Jaison Morgan
Carrot is the market leader in the development and management of large-scale and highly technical grantmaking and procurement protocols. As a service business, Carrot works closely with philanthropic, government, and corporate entities to help them improve their search for new talent and technical solutions to some of the leading challenges around the world. Therefore, Carrot offers a unique perspective on what those grantmakers and sponsors are seeking and how that process works. As the field continues to move towards more specific methods for engaging problem-solvers and democratizing procurement, it is important to understand how that can translate into a more open, transparent, and fair experience for those seeking funding.
Jaison Morgan has been recognized by the BBC as “the world’s expert” in designing prizes and challenge competitions to drive innovative breakthroughs. He helped establish a lab at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2007 to study how targeted rewards can be used to induce new solutions to engineering obstacles. Today, he manages the day-to-day operations of Carrot as the Founder and CEO. Carrot is the market leader in the design, development, and operation of large-scale incentive programming. Carrot has been responsible for such initiatives as the MacArthur Foundation’s 100&amp;Change, offering a single $100 million grant to the winning team, and the NASA Tech Leap prize, a new portal to open-source the development of mission-critical objectives for satellite technologies. Established in 2010, Carrot has compiled over 40 other case studies on their website, www.carrot.net, which include philanthropic, corporate, and government sponsors around the world. Jaison completed graduate studies at the University of Chicago and is a frequent lecturer on the subject of incentive engineering. He is from Richmond, Virginia, but currently lives in Santa Monica, California, where is happily raising two teenagers.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Competition To Drive Results</h1><h1>Interview with Jaison Morgan</h1><p>Carrot is the market leader in the development and management of large-scale and highly technical grantmaking and procurement protocols. As a service business, Carrot works closely with philanthropic, government, and corporate entities to help them improve their search for new talent and technical solutions to some of the leading challenges around the world. Therefore, Carrot offers a unique perspective on what those grantmakers and sponsors are seeking and how that process works. As the field continues to move towards more specific methods for engaging problem-solvers and democratizing procurement, it is important to understand how that can translate into a more open, transparent, and fair experience for those seeking funding.</p><p><strong>Jaison Morgan</strong> has been recognized by the BBC as “the world’s expert” in designing prizes and challenge competitions to drive innovative breakthroughs. He helped establish a lab at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2007 to study how targeted rewards can be used to induce new solutions to engineering obstacles. Today, he manages the day-to-day operations of Carrot as the Founder and CEO. Carrot is the market leader in the design, development, and operation of large-scale incentive programming. Carrot has been responsible for such initiatives as the MacArthur Foundation’s 100&amp;Change, offering a single $100 million grant to the winning team, and the NASA Tech Leap prize, a new portal to open-source the development of mission-critical objectives for satellite technologies. Established in 2010, Carrot has compiled over 40 other case studies on their website, www.carrot.net, which include philanthropic, corporate, and government sponsors around the world. Jaison completed graduate studies at the University of Chicago and is a frequent lecturer on the subject of incentive engineering. He is from Richmond, Virginia, but currently lives in Santa Monica, California, where is happily raising two teenagers.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2230</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Building Sustained Giving, Continuous Growth, and an Engaged, Loyal Donor Base</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-eight-principles/</link>
      <description>Building Sustained Giving, Continuous Growth, and an Engaged, Loyal Donor Base: Don’t Make It About Money

There are hundreds of millions of dollars in philanthropic funds which lie on the sidelines each year. This is over and above all the millions currently in donor-advised holdings. Accessing these funds is possible for any worthy charitable organization. To do so, nonprofit leaders must first adopt the right mindset, as being truly successful in fundraising is 90% thinking and only 10% doing.
Larry C. Johnson is an internationally recognized philanthropy and fundraising thought leader, Larry trains the staff and volunteers of worthy causes to achieve real impact through the creation of reliable, growing revenue streams. He emphasizes principles before methods as the key to long-lasting success. He stresses the simple, the practical, and the joyful.
Larry is the Founder of The Eight Principles, the premier brand for educational products and services in relational fundraising and philanthropy. The Eight Principles provides digital education, live workshops, and structured coaching to nonprofit organizations.
Author of the award-winning book, The Eight Principles of Sustainable Fundraising, AFP named Larry Outstanding Development Executive in 2010. The Wall Street Business Network ranks him in the Top 15 Fundraising Consultants in the USA. Larry is a graduate of Yale University. Larry speaks widely and serves on numerous nonprofit and corporate boards, including The Philanthropy Council of The Carter Center, the philanthropy of the 39th President of the United States.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2021 21:20:28 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Building Sustained Giving, Continuous Growth, and an Engaged, Loyal Donor Base</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Funding Expert, Larry C. Johnson</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Building Sustained Giving, Continuous Growth, and an Engaged, Loyal Donor Base: Don’t Make It About Money

There are hundreds of millions of dollars in philanthropic funds which lie on the sidelines each year. This is over and above all the millions currently in donor-advised holdings. Accessing these funds is possible for any worthy charitable organization. To do so, nonprofit leaders must first adopt the right mindset, as being truly successful in fundraising is 90% thinking and only 10% doing.
Larry C. Johnson is an internationally recognized philanthropy and fundraising thought leader, Larry trains the staff and volunteers of worthy causes to achieve real impact through the creation of reliable, growing revenue streams. He emphasizes principles before methods as the key to long-lasting success. He stresses the simple, the practical, and the joyful.
Larry is the Founder of The Eight Principles, the premier brand for educational products and services in relational fundraising and philanthropy. The Eight Principles provides digital education, live workshops, and structured coaching to nonprofit organizations.
Author of the award-winning book, The Eight Principles of Sustainable Fundraising, AFP named Larry Outstanding Development Executive in 2010. The Wall Street Business Network ranks him in the Top 15 Fundraising Consultants in the USA. Larry is a graduate of Yale University. Larry speaks widely and serves on numerous nonprofit and corporate boards, including The Philanthropy Council of The Carter Center, the philanthropy of the 39th President of the United States.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Building Sustained Giving, Continuous Growth, and an Engaged, Loyal Donor Base: Don’t Make It About Money</h1><p><a href="https://theeightprinciples.com/"></a></p><p>There are hundreds of millions of dollars in philanthropic funds which lie on the sidelines each year. This is over and above all the millions currently in donor-advised holdings. Accessing these funds is possible for any worthy charitable organization. To do so, nonprofit leaders must first adopt the right mindset, as being truly successful in fundraising is 90% thinking and only 10% doing.</p><p><strong>Larry C. Johnson</strong> is an internationally recognized philanthropy and fundraising thought leader, Larry trains the staff and volunteers of worthy causes to achieve real impact through the creation of reliable, growing revenue streams. He emphasizes principles before methods as the key to long-lasting success. He stresses the simple, the practical, and the joyful.</p><p>Larry is the Founder of The Eight Principles, the premier brand for educational products and services in relational fundraising and philanthropy. The Eight Principles provides digital education, live workshops, and structured coaching to nonprofit organizations.</p><p>Author of the award-winning book, The Eight Principles of Sustainable Fundraising, AFP named Larry Outstanding Development Executive in 2010. The Wall Street Business Network ranks him in the Top 15 Fundraising Consultants in the USA. Larry is a graduate of Yale University. Larry speaks widely and serves on numerous nonprofit and corporate boards, including The Philanthropy Council of The Carter Center, the philanthropy of the 39th President of the United States.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2899</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Installing Business Systems Into Your Nonprofit Organization</title>
      <link>https://c-suitenetwork.com/tv/shows/the-nonprofit-exchange/</link>
      <description>Installing Business Systems Into Your Nonprofit Organization
Tim Nichols
Author. Speaker. Business Development Strategist.
In 2012, Tim Nichols left the big-name banks and brokerage firms to open an independent financial practice in a town where he knew no one. Beginning with $0 in Assets Under Management, he had grown his practice to $3,000,000.00 in Assets Under Management within his first 12 months. By metrics used in the financial industry, he had grown his practice by 3,000,000% with no print, radio, digital or social media advertising. It was the sole result of his “3,000,000% Process.”
A firm believer in the Zig Ziglar ideology that you can have everything you want in life if you’ll help enough other people get what they want, he began mentoring other business owners to grow as he had grown. By 2018, Tim had authored a book and developed a training curriculum that helps business owners, entrepreneurs, and professionals to overcome challenges of creating strategic relationships, networking frustration, marketing confusion, building credibility, and self-isolation.
In April 2019, Tim found that the demand for his relationship marketing strategies had progressed into a stand-alone business that required his full attention. After 17 years as a Financial Advisor, Tim sold his financial practice to transform business professionals into dynamic influencers.
With a shifting paradigm brought on by the social and economic storm of the pandemic in 2021, Tim’s 3 Million Percent peer advisory program breathed life and hope into struggling businesses. These small groups of Business Owners, Entrepreneurs, and Professionals served as a crucial resource for training, guidance, encouragement, connection, and a rich sense of community. The program quickly expanded membership growth to 70 members in 12 months.
With the global expansion of his 3 structured format in mind, Tim has come aboard The C-Suite Network as Business Development Strategist. The mission alignment between these two organizations serves as a catalyst for great things to come.
More information at https://access.3millionpercent.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 12 Oct 2021 19:33:26 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Installing Business Systems Into Your Nonprofit Organization</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Tim Nichols</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Installing Business Systems Into Your Nonprofit Organization
Tim Nichols
Author. Speaker. Business Development Strategist.
In 2012, Tim Nichols left the big-name banks and brokerage firms to open an independent financial practice in a town where he knew no one. Beginning with $0 in Assets Under Management, he had grown his practice to $3,000,000.00 in Assets Under Management within his first 12 months. By metrics used in the financial industry, he had grown his practice by 3,000,000% with no print, radio, digital or social media advertising. It was the sole result of his “3,000,000% Process.”
A firm believer in the Zig Ziglar ideology that you can have everything you want in life if you’ll help enough other people get what they want, he began mentoring other business owners to grow as he had grown. By 2018, Tim had authored a book and developed a training curriculum that helps business owners, entrepreneurs, and professionals to overcome challenges of creating strategic relationships, networking frustration, marketing confusion, building credibility, and self-isolation.
In April 2019, Tim found that the demand for his relationship marketing strategies had progressed into a stand-alone business that required his full attention. After 17 years as a Financial Advisor, Tim sold his financial practice to transform business professionals into dynamic influencers.
With a shifting paradigm brought on by the social and economic storm of the pandemic in 2021, Tim’s 3 Million Percent peer advisory program breathed life and hope into struggling businesses. These small groups of Business Owners, Entrepreneurs, and Professionals served as a crucial resource for training, guidance, encouragement, connection, and a rich sense of community. The program quickly expanded membership growth to 70 members in 12 months.
With the global expansion of his 3 structured format in mind, Tim has come aboard The C-Suite Network as Business Development Strategist. The mission alignment between these two organizations serves as a catalyst for great things to come.
More information at https://access.3millionpercent.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Installing Business Systems Into Your Nonprofit Organization</h1><p><strong>Tim Nichols</strong></p><p><strong>Author. Speaker. Business Development Strategist.</strong></p><p>In 2012, Tim Nichols left the big-name banks and brokerage firms to open an independent financial practice in a town where he knew no one. Beginning with $0 in Assets Under Management, he had grown his practice to $3,000,000.00 in Assets Under Management within his first 12 months. By metrics used in the financial industry, he had grown his practice by 3,000,000% with no print, radio, digital or social media advertising. It was the sole result of his “3,000,000% Process.”</p><p>A firm believer in the Zig Ziglar ideology that you can have everything you want in life if you’ll help enough other people get what they want, he began mentoring other business owners to grow as he had grown. By 2018, Tim had authored a book and developed a training curriculum that helps business owners, entrepreneurs, and professionals to overcome challenges of creating strategic relationships, networking frustration, marketing confusion, building credibility, and self-isolation.</p><p>In April 2019, Tim found that the demand for his relationship marketing strategies had progressed into a stand-alone business that required his full attention. After 17 years as a Financial Advisor, Tim sold his financial practice to transform business professionals into dynamic influencers.</p><p>With a shifting paradigm brought on by the social and economic storm of the pandemic in 2021, Tim’s 3 Million Percent peer advisory program breathed life and hope into struggling businesses. These small groups of Business Owners, Entrepreneurs, and Professionals served as a crucial resource for training, guidance, encouragement, connection, and a rich sense of community. The program quickly expanded membership growth to 70 members in 12 months.</p><p>With the global expansion of his 3 structured format in mind, Tim has come aboard The C-Suite Network as Business Development Strategist. The mission alignment between these two organizations serves as a catalyst for great things to come.</p><p>More information at <a href="https://access.3millionpercent.com/"><strong>https://access.3millionpercent.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1248</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Media Power for Nonprofit Organizations: Connecting to Supporters in a Very Influential, Impactful, and Inspirational Way</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/media-power-for-nonprofit-organizations/</link>
      <description>Media Power for Nonprofit Organizations:
Connecting to Supporters in a Very Influential, Impactful, and Inspirational Way

Scott Murray, the co-founder of Murray Media, has served as the Chairman/CEO since its inception. For three decades, he was the Sports Director/Anchor on the local NBC nightly news in both Dallas/Fort Worth and Washington, DC. In addition, he served as a television host of countless TV specials, radio host of several programs, master of ceremonies at thousands of live events and charity galas, as well as both keynote speaker and moderator at hundreds of corporate conferences and industrial conventions.
Scott remains a sought-after keynote speaker as well as a published author of two books, Whatever It Takes and Bring Out the BEST. Scott’s lifetime love and commitment to philanthropic endeavors resulted in the creation of The Scott Murray Foundation, “Lifting Spirits… Building Dreams” to benefit both sick children and those in need. He was also a founding partner of Edgington/ Murray Philanthropic Advisors, an innovative team of experienced fundraising and nonprofit consultants where the culture is one of “aspire philanthropy… inspire humanity.”
For decades, Scott has remained very active in the north Texas community while serving on the board/advisory boards of countless children’s, civic, charitable, nonprofit, and professional organizations, which he has assisted in raising both great awareness and millions of dollars in revenue in both Texas and across the nation. Scott’s commitment to community has resulted in his being honored with a number of prestigious awards as well.
More about Scott Murray and his work on the following links:
Leadership America - https://leadershipamerica.net
Murray Media - https://www.murraymedia.net
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2021 20:00:56 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Media Power for Nonprofit Organizations: Connecting to Supporters in a Very Influential, Impactful, and Inspirational Way</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Scott Murray</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Media Power for Nonprofit Organizations:
Connecting to Supporters in a Very Influential, Impactful, and Inspirational Way

Scott Murray, the co-founder of Murray Media, has served as the Chairman/CEO since its inception. For three decades, he was the Sports Director/Anchor on the local NBC nightly news in both Dallas/Fort Worth and Washington, DC. In addition, he served as a television host of countless TV specials, radio host of several programs, master of ceremonies at thousands of live events and charity galas, as well as both keynote speaker and moderator at hundreds of corporate conferences and industrial conventions.
Scott remains a sought-after keynote speaker as well as a published author of two books, Whatever It Takes and Bring Out the BEST. Scott’s lifetime love and commitment to philanthropic endeavors resulted in the creation of The Scott Murray Foundation, “Lifting Spirits… Building Dreams” to benefit both sick children and those in need. He was also a founding partner of Edgington/ Murray Philanthropic Advisors, an innovative team of experienced fundraising and nonprofit consultants where the culture is one of “aspire philanthropy… inspire humanity.”
For decades, Scott has remained very active in the north Texas community while serving on the board/advisory boards of countless children’s, civic, charitable, nonprofit, and professional organizations, which he has assisted in raising both great awareness and millions of dollars in revenue in both Texas and across the nation. Scott’s commitment to community has resulted in his being honored with a number of prestigious awards as well.
More about Scott Murray and his work on the following links:
Leadership America - https://leadershipamerica.net
Murray Media - https://www.murraymedia.net
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Media Power for Nonprofit Organizations:</strong></h1><h1><strong>Connecting to Supporters in a Very Influential, Impactful, and Inspirational Way</strong></h1><p><br></p><p><strong>Scott Murray</strong>, the co-founder of Murray Media, has served as the Chairman/CEO since its inception. For three decades, he was the Sports Director/Anchor on the local NBC nightly news in both Dallas/Fort Worth and Washington, DC. In addition, he served as a television host of countless TV specials, radio host of several programs, master of ceremonies at thousands of live events and charity galas, as well as both keynote speaker and moderator at hundreds of corporate conferences and industrial conventions.</p><p>Scott remains a sought-after keynote speaker as well as a published author of two books, Whatever It Takes and Bring Out the BEST. Scott’s lifetime love and commitment to philanthropic endeavors resulted in the creation of The Scott Murray Foundation, “Lifting Spirits… Building Dreams” to benefit both sick children and those in need. He was also a founding partner of Edgington/ Murray Philanthropic Advisors, an innovative team of experienced fundraising and nonprofit consultants where the culture is one of “aspire philanthropy… inspire humanity.”</p><p>For decades, Scott has remained very active in the north Texas community while serving on the board/advisory boards of countless children’s, civic, charitable, nonprofit, and professional organizations, which he has assisted in raising both great awareness and millions of dollars in revenue in both Texas and across the nation. Scott’s commitment to community has resulted in his being honored with a number of prestigious awards as well.</p><p>More about Scott Murray and his work on the following links:</p><p>Leadership America - <a href="https://leadershipamerica.net/"><strong>https://leadershipamerica.net</strong></a></p><p>Murray Media - <a href="https://www.murraymedia.net/"><strong>https://www.murraymedia.net</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2206</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Situational Awareness and Leadership for Personal and Organizational Safety</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/situational-awareness-and-leadership/</link>
      <description>Situational Awareness and Leadership
The world is not a safe place today. The threats we face are growing. These threats include Sexual Harassment, Suicide, Human Trafficking, Cyber, Assault, Bullying, and Active Shooter. But this isn’t the entire list. In addition, all of these problems have been getting worse, not better. “Traditional Training” following Einstein’s definition of Insanity is not working. When you and your organization learn Situational Awareness, you provide your teams with the skills to prevent these threats from happening, and you also empower two other critical capabilities. The first is to identify Mental Health concerns within your team with Situational Awareness. And finally, and most important to you as leaders, with Situational Awareness you transition Leadership into a verb by identifying learning opportunities to effectively communicate your culture and empower them to exercise the behaviors that will make your organization safer. Finally, when you and your team members learn these skills, you do not just use them at work. These skills carry over into every part of your life, making your schools, homes, and communities safer.
Brian Searcy is the President of The Paratus Group. His vision is to “Redefine How Safety is Learned” to make Schools, Churches, the Workplace, and our communities as safe as possible. His unique experience and expertise, with the help of The Paratus Group Team, have revolutionized how situational awareness is trained and learned allowing the opportunity for every single member of our communities, the true first responders, to be “Prepared to Survive”.
Following a decorated senior leadership career in the USAF as a commander and combat veteran, Brian transitioned into executive roles as a business entrepreneur, writer, publisher, and public speaker. He co-founded The Paratus Group with the objective of using his decades-tested and proven leadership and training experience to solve a need for relevant, effective, trustworthy principles, training methodologies, and programs to allow for the learning of situational awareness. The situational awareness mindset and behaviors that are developed allows critical decisions to be made in the complex dynamics of the home, schools, the workplace, and our communities to make us all safer.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Sep 2021 20:53:23 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Situational Awareness and Leadership for Personal and Organizational Safety</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Brian Searcy</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Situational Awareness and Leadership
The world is not a safe place today. The threats we face are growing. These threats include Sexual Harassment, Suicide, Human Trafficking, Cyber, Assault, Bullying, and Active Shooter. But this isn’t the entire list. In addition, all of these problems have been getting worse, not better. “Traditional Training” following Einstein’s definition of Insanity is not working. When you and your organization learn Situational Awareness, you provide your teams with the skills to prevent these threats from happening, and you also empower two other critical capabilities. The first is to identify Mental Health concerns within your team with Situational Awareness. And finally, and most important to you as leaders, with Situational Awareness you transition Leadership into a verb by identifying learning opportunities to effectively communicate your culture and empower them to exercise the behaviors that will make your organization safer. Finally, when you and your team members learn these skills, you do not just use them at work. These skills carry over into every part of your life, making your schools, homes, and communities safer.
Brian Searcy is the President of The Paratus Group. His vision is to “Redefine How Safety is Learned” to make Schools, Churches, the Workplace, and our communities as safe as possible. His unique experience and expertise, with the help of The Paratus Group Team, have revolutionized how situational awareness is trained and learned allowing the opportunity for every single member of our communities, the true first responders, to be “Prepared to Survive”.
Following a decorated senior leadership career in the USAF as a commander and combat veteran, Brian transitioned into executive roles as a business entrepreneur, writer, publisher, and public speaker. He co-founded The Paratus Group with the objective of using his decades-tested and proven leadership and training experience to solve a need for relevant, effective, trustworthy principles, training methodologies, and programs to allow for the learning of situational awareness. The situational awareness mindset and behaviors that are developed allows critical decisions to be made in the complex dynamics of the home, schools, the workplace, and our communities to make us all safer.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Situational Awareness and Leadership</h1><p>The world is not a safe place today. The threats we face are growing. These threats include Sexual Harassment, Suicide, Human Trafficking, Cyber, Assault, Bullying, and Active Shooter. But this isn’t the entire list. In addition, all of these problems have been getting worse, not better. “Traditional Training” following Einstein’s definition of Insanity is not working. When you and your organization learn Situational Awareness, you provide your teams with the skills to prevent these threats from happening, and you also empower two other critical capabilities. The first is to identify Mental Health concerns within your team with Situational Awareness. And finally, and most important to you as leaders, with Situational Awareness you transition Leadership into a verb by identifying learning opportunities to effectively communicate your culture and empower them to exercise the behaviors that will make your organization safer. Finally, when you and your team members learn these skills, you do not just use them at work. These skills carry over into every part of your life, making your schools, homes, and communities safer.</p><p>Brian Searcy is the President of The Paratus Group. His vision is to “Redefine How Safety is Learned” to make Schools, Churches, the Workplace, and our communities as safe as possible. His unique experience and expertise, with the help of The Paratus Group Team, have revolutionized how situational awareness is trained and learned allowing the opportunity for every single member of our communities, the true first responders, to be “Prepared to Survive”.</p><p>Following a decorated senior leadership career in the USAF as a commander and combat veteran, Brian transitioned into executive roles as a business entrepreneur, writer, publisher, and public speaker. He co-founded The Paratus Group with the objective of using his decades-tested and proven leadership and training experience to solve a need for relevant, effective, trustworthy principles, training methodologies, and programs to allow for the learning of situational awareness. The situational awareness mindset and behaviors that are developed allows critical decisions to be made in the complex dynamics of the home, schools, the workplace, and our communities to make us all safer.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1841</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Importance of Digital Marketing for Your Nonprofit</title>
      <description>Importance of Digital Marketing for Your Nonprofit: Interview with Digital Expert Mark Stebbins

How can nonprofit organizations drive traffic to their website and convert visitors into supporters including volunteers and donors?
In 2003,Mark Stebbinsstarted Stebbins Media, with one simple goal in mind – help businesses with exceptional marketing. He has always believed that marketing should be an investment and not an expense. When done right, it’s a beautiful thing when the combination of strategy, art, and technology comes together. Mark is a marketing expert and a Davey Award-winning designer. He is also a member of the Platt College Advisory Board as well as a volunteer leader for Chino Valley Young Life. Stebbins Media is located in Southern California and services clients all across the world.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:15:07 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Importance of Digital Marketing for Your Nonprofit</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Digital Expert Mark Stebbins</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Importance of Digital Marketing for Your Nonprofit: Interview with Digital Expert Mark Stebbins

How can nonprofit organizations drive traffic to their website and convert visitors into supporters including volunteers and donors?
In 2003,Mark Stebbinsstarted Stebbins Media, with one simple goal in mind – help businesses with exceptional marketing. He has always believed that marketing should be an investment and not an expense. When done right, it’s a beautiful thing when the combination of strategy, art, and technology comes together. Mark is a marketing expert and a Davey Award-winning designer. He is also a member of the Platt College Advisory Board as well as a volunteer leader for Chino Valley Young Life. Stebbins Media is located in Southern California and services clients all across the world.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Importance of Digital Marketing for Your Nonprofit: Interview with Digital Expert Mark Stebbins</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>How can nonprofit organizations drive traffic to their website and convert visitors into supporters including volunteers and donors?</p><p>In 2003,<strong>Mark Stebbins</strong>started Stebbins Media, with one simple goal in mind – help businesses with exceptional marketing. He has always believed that marketing should be an investment and not an expense. When done right, it’s a beautiful thing when the combination of strategy, art, and technology comes together. Mark is a marketing expert and a Davey Award-winning designer. He is also a member of the Platt College Advisory Board as well as a volunteer leader for Chino Valley Young Life. Stebbins Media is located in Southern California and services clients all across the world.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2204</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[c1f5b342-1bb7-11ec-8a0f-c31159fa1aae]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8245964677.mp3?updated=1632323959" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Little Things Everyone Can Do To Make A Big Impact In The World:</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/little-things-everyone-can-do-to-make-a-big-impact-in-the-world/</link>
      <description>Little Things Everyone Can Do To Make A Big Impact In The World:
Interview with Amy &amp; Scott Malin
One of the main reasons donors lapse is poor communication from the non-profit and a lack of meaningful ways to engage donors and get them excited about their mission. Most people experience donor burn-out from being bombarded with messages about the world’s biggest problems that need fixing. As a society, we’ve become desensitized when we see suffering around us. That is why we’re big believers in making your donors the hero of the story, and showcasing the measurable impact that is created when people come together to support your cause. Part of the secret to retaining donors and increasing their financial commitment is sharing the success stories of how your non-profit is making an impact in your community.

Amy and Scott Malin
Married dynamic duo Amy and Scott Malin are Hollywood’s social impact experts. They are partners in the cause agency Trueheart, where they connect celebrities and purpose-driven brands with deserving non-profits to raise millions of dollars for deserving charities. Amy and Scott are also Co-Founders of the Trueheart social impact search engine, a new social good platform that allows people to change the world with every search.
You can start searching with Trueheart at https://trueheart.comand Follow @WeAreTrueheart on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter to keep up with Amy &amp; Scott’s social impact campaigns.

 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2021 20:19:23 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Little Things Everyone Can Do To Make A Big Impact In The World:</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Amy &amp; Scott Malin</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Little Things Everyone Can Do To Make A Big Impact In The World:
Interview with Amy &amp; Scott Malin
One of the main reasons donors lapse is poor communication from the non-profit and a lack of meaningful ways to engage donors and get them excited about their mission. Most people experience donor burn-out from being bombarded with messages about the world’s biggest problems that need fixing. As a society, we’ve become desensitized when we see suffering around us. That is why we’re big believers in making your donors the hero of the story, and showcasing the measurable impact that is created when people come together to support your cause. Part of the secret to retaining donors and increasing their financial commitment is sharing the success stories of how your non-profit is making an impact in your community.

Amy and Scott Malin
Married dynamic duo Amy and Scott Malin are Hollywood’s social impact experts. They are partners in the cause agency Trueheart, where they connect celebrities and purpose-driven brands with deserving non-profits to raise millions of dollars for deserving charities. Amy and Scott are also Co-Founders of the Trueheart social impact search engine, a new social good platform that allows people to change the world with every search.
You can start searching with Trueheart at https://trueheart.comand Follow @WeAreTrueheart on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter to keep up with Amy &amp; Scott’s social impact campaigns.

 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Little Things Everyone Can Do To Make A Big Impact In The World:</h1><h1>Interview with Amy &amp; Scott Malin</h1><p>One of the main reasons donors lapse is poor communication from the non-profit and a lack of meaningful ways to engage donors and get them excited about their mission. Most people experience donor burn-out from being bombarded with messages about the world’s biggest problems that need fixing. As a society, we’ve become desensitized when we see suffering around us. That is why we’re big believers in making your donors the hero of the story, and showcasing the measurable impact that is created when people come together to support your cause. Part of the secret to retaining donors and increasing their financial commitment is sharing the success stories of how your non-profit is making an impact in your community.</p><p><a href="https://trueheart.com/"></a></p><p><a href="https://trueheart.com/"><strong>Amy and Scott Malin</strong></a></p><p>Married dynamic duo <strong>Amy and Scott Malin</strong> are Hollywood’s social impact experts. They are partners in the cause agency Trueheart, where they connect celebrities and purpose-driven brands with deserving non-profits to raise millions of dollars for deserving charities. Amy and Scott are also Co-Founders of the Trueheart social impact search engine, a new social good platform that allows people to change the world with every search.</p><p>You can start searching with Trueheart at <a href="https://trueheart.com/"><strong>https://trueheart.com</strong></a>and Follow @WeAreTrueheart on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter to keep up with Amy &amp; Scott’s social impact campaigns.</p><p><a href="https://trueheart.com/"></a></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2314</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[dc28c76e-1599-11ec-84de-0ff6d413ee88]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2887720471.mp3?updated=1631651411" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leader Effectiveness: Closing The Confidence Gap</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-confidence-gap/</link>
      <description>Leader Effectiveness: Closing The Confidence Gap Interview with Robbie Walls
Today, there is a particular crisis for women—a vast confidence gap that separates the sexes. Compared with men, women don’t consider themselves as ready for promotions, they predict they’ll do worse on tests, and they generally underestimate their abilities across the board. A growing body of evidence shows just how devastating this lack of confidence can be. In fact, it turns out that confidence predicts success much more than competence. No wonder that women, despite all our progress, are still woefully underrepresented at the highest levels. Overqualified and overprepared, too many women still hold back on seeking opportunities. Women feel confident only when they are perfect. Or practically perfect. The good news is that with work, confidence can be acquired. This means that the confidence gap, in turn, can be closed.
[caption id="attachment_6283" align="alignleft" width="300"]Robbie Walls
[/caption]
Robbie Walls is the founder of The Walls Speak, author of 180* Momentum, and co-author in The Power of the Platform. She is the host of Bold Girl Biz Podcast, a teacher by profession and entrepreneur by heart! Robbie draws out talent in female entrepreneurs so that their inner brilliance and voice is Alive. This brilliance is an expression of who they are becoming personally and professionally through confidence and leadership development.
The Walls Speak delivers high-caliber group and 1:1 mentor coaching that results in significant self-confidence and more free time.
More information at https://boldgirlbiz.thewallsspeak.com/
Get Robbie's Free Guide, "The Essential Guide to Resilience" at https://mailchi.mp/47ac02169cbd/a-guide-to-resilience
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2021 14:28:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Leader Effectiveness: Closing The Confidence Gap</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Robbie Walls</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leader Effectiveness: Closing The Confidence Gap Interview with Robbie Walls
Today, there is a particular crisis for women—a vast confidence gap that separates the sexes. Compared with men, women don’t consider themselves as ready for promotions, they predict they’ll do worse on tests, and they generally underestimate their abilities across the board. A growing body of evidence shows just how devastating this lack of confidence can be. In fact, it turns out that confidence predicts success much more than competence. No wonder that women, despite all our progress, are still woefully underrepresented at the highest levels. Overqualified and overprepared, too many women still hold back on seeking opportunities. Women feel confident only when they are perfect. Or practically perfect. The good news is that with work, confidence can be acquired. This means that the confidence gap, in turn, can be closed.
[caption id="attachment_6283" align="alignleft" width="300"]Robbie Walls
[/caption]
Robbie Walls is the founder of The Walls Speak, author of 180* Momentum, and co-author in The Power of the Platform. She is the host of Bold Girl Biz Podcast, a teacher by profession and entrepreneur by heart! Robbie draws out talent in female entrepreneurs so that their inner brilliance and voice is Alive. This brilliance is an expression of who they are becoming personally and professionally through confidence and leadership development.
The Walls Speak delivers high-caliber group and 1:1 mentor coaching that results in significant self-confidence and more free time.
More information at https://boldgirlbiz.thewallsspeak.com/
Get Robbie's Free Guide, "The Essential Guide to Resilience" at https://mailchi.mp/47ac02169cbd/a-guide-to-resilience
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Leader Effectiveness: Closing The Confidence Gap Interview with Robbie Walls</strong></h1><p>Today, there is a particular crisis for women—a vast confidence gap that separates the sexes. Compared with men, women don’t consider themselves as ready for promotions, they predict they’ll do worse on tests, and they generally underestimate their abilities across the board. A growing body of evidence shows just how devastating this lack of confidence can be. In fact, it turns out that confidence predicts success much more than competence. No wonder that women, despite all our progress, are still woefully underrepresented at the highest levels. Overqualified and overprepared, too many women still hold back on seeking opportunities. Women feel confident only when they are perfect. Or practically perfect. The good news is that with work, confidence can be acquired. This means that the confidence gap, in turn, can be closed.</p><p>[caption id="attachment_6283" align="alignleft" width="300"]<a href="https://boldgirlbiz.thewallsspeak.com/"></a><strong>Robbie Walls</strong></p><p>[/caption]</p><p><strong>Robbie Walls</strong> is the founder of The Walls Speak, author of 180* Momentum, and co-author in The Power of the Platform. She is the host of Bold Girl Biz Podcast, a teacher by profession and entrepreneur by heart! Robbie draws out talent in female entrepreneurs so that their inner brilliance and voice is Alive. This brilliance is an expression of who they are becoming personally and professionally through confidence and leadership development.</p><p>The Walls Speak delivers high-caliber group and 1:1 mentor coaching that results in significant self-confidence and more free time.</p><p>More information at <a href="https://boldgirlbiz.thewallsspeak.com/"><strong>https://boldgirlbiz.thewallsspeak.com/</strong></a></p><p>Get Robbie's Free Guide, <strong><em>"The Essential Guide to Resilience"</em></strong> at <a href="https://mailchi.mp/47ac02169cbd/a-guide-to-resilience"><strong>https://mailchi.mp/47ac02169cbd/a-guide-to-resilience</strong></a></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2181</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[27c78dd2-149f-11ec-9d71-6b4fb9031c1d]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6349190699.mp3?updated=1631543734" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Discovering the Value of Including Persons with Disabilities with Your Overall Inclusion Efforts</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/discovering-the-value-of-including-persons-with-disabilities-with-your-overall-inclusion-efforts/</link>
      <description>Discovering the Value of Including Persons with Disabilities with Your Overall Inclusion Efforts Interview with Daniel Hodges
Creating access is usually a much simpler process than we imaging subtle changes make a world of difference. Access and inclusion are catalysts for innovation that benefit everyone. No viewing people with disabilities as people to serve, but also including them in nonprofit leadership.
Questions to be addressed in this interview:

What is a disability and how many people have it?

How do access and inclusion benefit everyone?

How difficult is it be inclusive and to create access?

What’s the difference between access and accommodation?


Daniel Hodges has spent his entire life learning to thrive in a body that some consider to be deeply flawed. As someone who was born blind, and with a connective tissue disorder, I am well-acquainted with the low expectations encountered by those with disabilities. These experiences have ignited a fire in me to help create a world in which everyone is afforded the opportunity to reach their potential without the barriers that hold so many of us back. In 2018, I entered the University of Baltimore School of Law, with aspirations of practicing at the intersection of healthcare and civil rights law. My involvement in Peaces of Me is an outgrowth of these efforts. Our collective passion for advocacy and furtherance of equity and inclusion runs deep. I am blessed and honored to be part of this amazing team.
More at https://peacesofme.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2021 21:52:03 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Discovering the Value of Including Persons with Disabilities with Your Overall Inclusion Efforts</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle> Interview with Peaces of Me Founder, Daniel Hodges</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Discovering the Value of Including Persons with Disabilities with Your Overall Inclusion Efforts Interview with Daniel Hodges
Creating access is usually a much simpler process than we imaging subtle changes make a world of difference. Access and inclusion are catalysts for innovation that benefit everyone. No viewing people with disabilities as people to serve, but also including them in nonprofit leadership.
Questions to be addressed in this interview:

What is a disability and how many people have it?

How do access and inclusion benefit everyone?

How difficult is it be inclusive and to create access?

What’s the difference between access and accommodation?


Daniel Hodges has spent his entire life learning to thrive in a body that some consider to be deeply flawed. As someone who was born blind, and with a connective tissue disorder, I am well-acquainted with the low expectations encountered by those with disabilities. These experiences have ignited a fire in me to help create a world in which everyone is afforded the opportunity to reach their potential without the barriers that hold so many of us back. In 2018, I entered the University of Baltimore School of Law, with aspirations of practicing at the intersection of healthcare and civil rights law. My involvement in Peaces of Me is an outgrowth of these efforts. Our collective passion for advocacy and furtherance of equity and inclusion runs deep. I am blessed and honored to be part of this amazing team.
More at https://peacesofme.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Discovering the Value of Including Persons with Disabilities with Your Overall Inclusion Efforts Interview with Daniel Hodges</strong></h1><p>Creating access is usually a much simpler process than we imaging subtle changes make a world of difference. Access and inclusion are catalysts for innovation that benefit everyone. No viewing people with disabilities as people to serve, but also including them in nonprofit leadership.</p><p>Questions to be addressed in this interview:</p><ul>
<li>What is a disability and how many people have it?</li>
<li>How do access and inclusion benefit everyone?</li>
<li>How difficult is it be inclusive and to create access?</li>
<li>What’s the difference between access and accommodation?</li>
</ul><p></p><p><a href="https://peacesofme.org/profiles/"><strong></strong></a><strong>Daniel Hodges</strong> has spent his entire life learning to thrive in a body that some consider to be deeply flawed. As someone who was born blind, and with a connective tissue disorder, I am well-acquainted with the low expectations encountered by those with disabilities. These experiences have ignited a fire in me to help create a world in which everyone is afforded the opportunity to reach their potential without the barriers that hold so many of us back. In 2018, I entered the University of Baltimore School of Law, with aspirations of practicing at the intersection of healthcare and civil rights law. My involvement in Peaces of Me is an outgrowth of these efforts. Our collective passion for advocacy and furtherance of equity and inclusion runs deep. I am blessed and honored to be part of this amazing team.</p><p>More at<a href="https://peacesofme.org/"><strong> https://peacesofme.org</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2184</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f4fb86e2-0c4c-11ec-9fbf-4796b076a7c0]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4994873680.mp3?updated=1630628821" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title> Corporate Lessons applied to Entrepreneurship</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/a-cautionary-tale-corporate-lessons-applied-to-entrepreneurship/</link>
      <description>A Cautionary Tale –
Corporate Lessons applied to Entrepreneurship:
How to Identify and Avoid Future Disasters
Interview with Dan Goodwin
Have you ever had a time when there was a nagging doubt about a certain person or situation? Ever wonder how confidential information is being handled and protected within your organization? Do you know if your employees/volunteers understand the parameters of your mission, passion, and vision? These three items: people, processes, and communication all directly impact your ability to lead and encompass what is needed to be protected at all costs. Primarily, your reputation. When bad things happen, it impacts the organization, not just the person who committed the wrongdoing. While having a great reactive response plan, it has better results with you invest proactively to eliminate those future nasty surprises. Let me share some of my experiences and observations spanning both corporate and entrepreneurial experiences.

Dan Goodwin
Dan Goodwin completed his lengthy corporate career in 2007 as an internal investigator and transitioned into a business owner, coach, mentor, consultant, and teacher. Dan uses his unique talents and training of interview and interrogation techniques to assist entrepreneurs as they prepare and/or revise their business plans. Dan’s interactive style makes him unique in his ability to communicate to the complete range of business contacts, whether that be solo entrepreneurs or C-level executives. In addition to in-person appearances, Dan leverages technology and uses video and webinar training as a part of his follow-up sessions. Dan brings a large network of contacts and is fiercely loyal to those whom he endorses.
When considering a business coach, conference keynote speaker, or simply want to explore a new business idea, you can reach Dan at Dan@CYAConsulting.Services
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2021 19:07:36 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title> Corporate Lessons applied to Entrepreneurship</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>How to Identify and Avoid Future Disasters</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>A Cautionary Tale –
Corporate Lessons applied to Entrepreneurship:
How to Identify and Avoid Future Disasters
Interview with Dan Goodwin
Have you ever had a time when there was a nagging doubt about a certain person or situation? Ever wonder how confidential information is being handled and protected within your organization? Do you know if your employees/volunteers understand the parameters of your mission, passion, and vision? These three items: people, processes, and communication all directly impact your ability to lead and encompass what is needed to be protected at all costs. Primarily, your reputation. When bad things happen, it impacts the organization, not just the person who committed the wrongdoing. While having a great reactive response plan, it has better results with you invest proactively to eliminate those future nasty surprises. Let me share some of my experiences and observations spanning both corporate and entrepreneurial experiences.

Dan Goodwin
Dan Goodwin completed his lengthy corporate career in 2007 as an internal investigator and transitioned into a business owner, coach, mentor, consultant, and teacher. Dan uses his unique talents and training of interview and interrogation techniques to assist entrepreneurs as they prepare and/or revise their business plans. Dan’s interactive style makes him unique in his ability to communicate to the complete range of business contacts, whether that be solo entrepreneurs or C-level executives. In addition to in-person appearances, Dan leverages technology and uses video and webinar training as a part of his follow-up sessions. Dan brings a large network of contacts and is fiercely loyal to those whom he endorses.
When considering a business coach, conference keynote speaker, or simply want to explore a new business idea, you can reach Dan at Dan@CYAConsulting.Services
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      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>A Cautionary Tale –</h1><h1>Corporate Lessons applied to Entrepreneurship:</h1><h1>How to Identify and Avoid Future Disasters</h1><h1>Interview with Dan Goodwin</h1><p>Have you ever had a time when there was a nagging doubt about a certain person or situation? Ever wonder how confidential information is being handled and protected within your organization? Do you know if your employees/volunteers understand the parameters of your mission, passion, and vision? These three items: people, processes, and communication all directly impact your ability to lead and encompass what is needed to be protected at all costs. Primarily, your reputation. When bad things happen, it impacts the organization, not just the person who committed the wrongdoing. While having a great reactive response plan, it has better results with you invest proactively to eliminate those future nasty surprises. Let me share some of my experiences and observations spanning both corporate and entrepreneurial experiences.</p><p></p><p><strong>Dan Goodwin</strong></p><p><strong>Dan Goodwin</strong> completed his lengthy corporate career in 2007 as an internal investigator and transitioned into a business owner, coach, mentor, consultant, and teacher. Dan uses his unique talents and training of interview and interrogation techniques to assist entrepreneurs as they prepare and/or revise their business plans. Dan’s interactive style makes him unique in his ability to communicate to the complete range of business contacts, whether that be solo entrepreneurs or C-level executives. In addition to in-person appearances, Dan leverages technology and uses video and webinar training as a part of his follow-up sessions. Dan brings a large network of contacts and is fiercely loyal to those whom he endorses.</p><p>When considering a business coach, conference keynote speaker, or simply want to explore a new business idea, you can reach Dan at <a href="mailto:Dan@CYAConsulting.Services"><strong>Dan</strong></a><strong>@CYAConsulting.Services</strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2211</itunes:duration>
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      <title>7 Questions That Unlock How Your Organization Can Attract New Donors</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/7-questions-that-unlock-how-your-organization-can-attract-new-donors/</link>
      <description>7 Questions That Unlock How Your Organization Can Attract New Donors
Interview with Marketing Specialist, Chris Barlow

Chris Barlow grew up imagining he'd work in a cause-focused career, ministry, or mission. To his surprise, after just "getting a job" after college, he discovered he loved business. After many years in corporate sales, he realized that while he loved it, it wasn't going to be what he could or wanted to do until retirement.
So he founded Beeline in 2015 and volunteered with a local nonprofit to help them with their marketing, just to get some experience under his belt.
Little did he realize that this would eventually lead him full circle, as his company now focuses exclusively on helping nonprofits.
Chris is the Customer Happiness Director, and they exist to help nonprofits reach more people through marketing that serves.
His big skill is putting his two youngest boys down for a nap every day

7 Questions that Unlock How Your Organization Can Attract New Donors
What is our guiding principle?

What is our expertise?

Who are our donors, and what issues do they have that we could address?

What digital resources could we create to address these issues?

What does our team hear or see on the front lines of our mission?

What are people searching for online related to these issues and resources?

What perceived value do our donors have about the resources we could create?

More about Chris at https://yourbeeline.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:20:21 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>7 Questions That Unlock How Your Organization Can Attract New Donors</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/fb3fb93c-ff96-11eb-a26b-b72b8c655dfa/image/image.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Marketing Specialist, Chris Barlow</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>7 Questions That Unlock How Your Organization Can Attract New Donors
Interview with Marketing Specialist, Chris Barlow

Chris Barlow grew up imagining he'd work in a cause-focused career, ministry, or mission. To his surprise, after just "getting a job" after college, he discovered he loved business. After many years in corporate sales, he realized that while he loved it, it wasn't going to be what he could or wanted to do until retirement.
So he founded Beeline in 2015 and volunteered with a local nonprofit to help them with their marketing, just to get some experience under his belt.
Little did he realize that this would eventually lead him full circle, as his company now focuses exclusively on helping nonprofits.
Chris is the Customer Happiness Director, and they exist to help nonprofits reach more people through marketing that serves.
His big skill is putting his two youngest boys down for a nap every day

7 Questions that Unlock How Your Organization Can Attract New Donors
What is our guiding principle?

What is our expertise?

Who are our donors, and what issues do they have that we could address?

What digital resources could we create to address these issues?

What does our team hear or see on the front lines of our mission?

What are people searching for online related to these issues and resources?

What perceived value do our donors have about the resources we could create?

More about Chris at https://yourbeeline.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>7 Questions That Unlock How Your Organization Can Attract New Donors</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Marketing Specialist, Chris Barlow</strong></h1><p><br></p><p><strong>Chris Barlow</strong> grew up imagining he'd work in a cause-focused career, ministry, or mission. To his surprise, after just "getting a job" after college, he discovered he loved business. After many years in corporate sales, he realized that while he loved it, it wasn't going to be what he could or wanted to do until retirement.</p><p>So he founded Beeline in 2015 and volunteered with a local nonprofit to help them with their marketing, just to get some experience under his belt.</p><p>Little did he realize that this would eventually lead him full circle, as his company now focuses exclusively on helping nonprofits.</p><p>Chris is the Customer Happiness Director, and they exist to help nonprofits reach more people through marketing that serves.</p><p>His big skill is putting his two youngest boys down for a nap every day</p><p><br></p><strong>7 Questions that Unlock How Your Organization Can Attract New Donors</strong><ol>
<li>What is our guiding principle?</li>
<li>What is our expertise?</li>
<li>Who are our donors, and what issues do they have that we could address?</li>
<li>What digital resources could we create to address these issues?</li>
<li>What does our team hear or see on the front lines of our mission?</li>
<li>What are people searching for online related to these issues and resources?</li>
<li>What perceived value do our donors have about the resources we could create?</li>
</ol><p>More about Chris at <a href="https://yourbeeline.com/"><strong>https://yourbeeline.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2514</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Traits of The Gracious Leader: The Power Five®️</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/traits-of-the-gracious-leader-the-power-five</link>
      <description>Traits of The Gracious Leader: The Power Five®️
Interview with Gracious Coach Doris Young Boyer
Doris Young Boyer is a sought-after keynote speaker, leadership advisor, and podcast host. She has insight, expertise, and experience about the behaviors that create a powerful presence, that create and sustain relationships, and produce bottom-line results. Doris has more than 25 years of domestic and international business experience.
With more than 25 years of domestic and international corporate and business experience, Doris is the go-to expert on global protocol, business etiquette, and leadership behaviors. She has firsthand knowledge of the communication and leadership issues executives face on a regular basis as well as the diplomacy, conflict resolution skill, and protocol savvy needed to address these issues. She gives her clients winning formulas to be confident and successful in business and social situations. 
Doris equips her clients to avoid unintentional and preventable blunders, such as taboo gestures. As a result of her coaching and professional development seminars, her clients reduce their learning curve, increase their influence and profitability, resolve conflict with grace and skill, maintain strong global relationships, create an effective workplace culture, motivate a team and achieve the goals that are important to them and positively impact the success of others and make better decisions. They implement the behaviors of a leader.
Leaders will sidestep costly mistakes that can; derail a business meeting or an interview, demotivate a team or negatively impact the workplace culture. In a situation where a derailment has occurred, Doris will problem-solve with you to get back on track.
She is a thought leader on Gracious Powerful Leadership which she describes as the result of intentionally choosing and using relationship-focused behaviors as the default in leading others.
She brings experience and expertise working with individuals and organizations domestically and internationally. During her tenure as a human resources professional for a major corporation, Doris traveled extensively in Europe representing the corporation to its many divisions. She planned and executed conferences, briefings, and retreats in Europe aimed at increasing the effectiveness of executives.
Doris has a BA and MA in behavioral and social sciences and post-graduate training in finance and strategy development. She is an experienced International Protocol and Corporate Etiquette Consultant, trained and certified by the founder of the Protocol School of Washington. Known as a problem solver who values relationships and results, Doris is trained in mediation, meeting facilitation, and innovative problem-solving. She facilitates workshops, meetings, leadership retreats, and strategy sessions. She helps clients perform things faster, easier, and more effectively. She makes your path smoother.
 
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      <pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2021 22:37:46 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Traits of The Gracious Leader: The Power Five®️</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Gracious Coach Doris Young Boyer</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Traits of The Gracious Leader: The Power Five®️
Interview with Gracious Coach Doris Young Boyer
Doris Young Boyer is a sought-after keynote speaker, leadership advisor, and podcast host. She has insight, expertise, and experience about the behaviors that create a powerful presence, that create and sustain relationships, and produce bottom-line results. Doris has more than 25 years of domestic and international business experience.
With more than 25 years of domestic and international corporate and business experience, Doris is the go-to expert on global protocol, business etiquette, and leadership behaviors. She has firsthand knowledge of the communication and leadership issues executives face on a regular basis as well as the diplomacy, conflict resolution skill, and protocol savvy needed to address these issues. She gives her clients winning formulas to be confident and successful in business and social situations. 
Doris equips her clients to avoid unintentional and preventable blunders, such as taboo gestures. As a result of her coaching and professional development seminars, her clients reduce their learning curve, increase their influence and profitability, resolve conflict with grace and skill, maintain strong global relationships, create an effective workplace culture, motivate a team and achieve the goals that are important to them and positively impact the success of others and make better decisions. They implement the behaviors of a leader.
Leaders will sidestep costly mistakes that can; derail a business meeting or an interview, demotivate a team or negatively impact the workplace culture. In a situation where a derailment has occurred, Doris will problem-solve with you to get back on track.
She is a thought leader on Gracious Powerful Leadership which she describes as the result of intentionally choosing and using relationship-focused behaviors as the default in leading others.
She brings experience and expertise working with individuals and organizations domestically and internationally. During her tenure as a human resources professional for a major corporation, Doris traveled extensively in Europe representing the corporation to its many divisions. She planned and executed conferences, briefings, and retreats in Europe aimed at increasing the effectiveness of executives.
Doris has a BA and MA in behavioral and social sciences and post-graduate training in finance and strategy development. She is an experienced International Protocol and Corporate Etiquette Consultant, trained and certified by the founder of the Protocol School of Washington. Known as a problem solver who values relationships and results, Doris is trained in mediation, meeting facilitation, and innovative problem-solving. She facilitates workshops, meetings, leadership retreats, and strategy sessions. She helps clients perform things faster, easier, and more effectively. She makes your path smoother.
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Traits of The Gracious Leader: The Power Five®️</strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Gracious Coach Doris Young Boyer</strong></h1><p><strong>Doris Young Boyer</strong> is a sought-after keynote speaker, leadership advisor, and podcast host. She has insight, expertise, and experience about the behaviors that create a powerful presence, that create and sustain relationships, and produce bottom-line results. Doris has more than 25 years of domestic and international business experience.</p><p>With more than 25 years of domestic and international corporate and business experience, Doris is the go-to expert on global protocol, business etiquette, and leadership behaviors. She has firsthand knowledge of the communication and leadership issues executives face on a regular basis as well as the diplomacy, conflict resolution skill, and protocol savvy needed to address these issues. She gives her clients winning formulas to be confident and successful in business and social situations. </p><p>Doris equips her clients to avoid unintentional and preventable blunders, such as taboo gestures. As a result of her coaching and professional development seminars, her clients reduce their learning curve, increase their influence and profitability, resolve conflict with grace and skill, maintain strong global relationships, create an effective workplace culture, motivate a team and achieve the goals that are important to them and positively impact the success of others and make better decisions. They implement the behaviors of a leader.</p><p>Leaders will sidestep costly mistakes that can; derail a business meeting or an interview, demotivate a team or negatively impact the workplace culture. In a situation where a derailment has occurred, Doris will problem-solve with you to get back on track.</p><p>She is a thought leader on Gracious Powerful Leadership which she describes as the result of intentionally choosing and using relationship-focused behaviors as the default in leading others.</p><p>She brings experience and expertise working with individuals and organizations domestically and internationally. During her tenure as a human resources professional for a major corporation, Doris traveled extensively in Europe representing the corporation to its many divisions. She planned and executed conferences, briefings, and retreats in Europe aimed at increasing the effectiveness of executives.</p><p>Doris has a BA and MA in behavioral and social sciences and post-graduate training in finance and strategy development. She is an experienced International Protocol and Corporate Etiquette Consultant, trained and certified by the founder of the Protocol School of Washington. Known as a problem solver who values relationships and results, Doris is trained in mediation, meeting facilitation, and innovative problem-solving. She facilitates workshops, meetings, leadership retreats, and strategy sessions. She helps clients perform things faster, easier, and more effectively. She makes your path smoother.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2658</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Bio Writing and Visibility As a Leader</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/bio-writing-and-visibility-as-a-leader/</link>
      <description>Bio Writing and Visibility As a Leader: How to talk about yourself without sounding arrogant with Writing Coach June Morrow
It’s not arrogant to talk (or write) about yourself in a way that shows the value you bring to the world.
June Morrow helps service-based entrepreneurs, leaders, and others find the words that describe their worth with bio writing, website writing, elevator pitches, and custom content marketing strategies. A former journalist and award-winning public speaker, she’s had her own story of personal transformation viewed over 1 million times on social media.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2021 19:09:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Bio Writing and Visibility As a Leade</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>How to talk about yourself without sounding arrogant with Writing Coach June Morrow</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Bio Writing and Visibility As a Leader: How to talk about yourself without sounding arrogant with Writing Coach June Morrow
It’s not arrogant to talk (or write) about yourself in a way that shows the value you bring to the world.
June Morrow helps service-based entrepreneurs, leaders, and others find the words that describe their worth with bio writing, website writing, elevator pitches, and custom content marketing strategies. A former journalist and award-winning public speaker, she’s had her own story of personal transformation viewed over 1 million times on social media.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Bio Writing and Visibility As a Leader: How to talk about yourself without sounding arrogant with Writing Coach June Morrow</h1><p><strong>It’s not arrogant to talk (or write) about yourself in a way that shows the value you bring to the world.</strong></p><p><strong>June Morrow</strong> helps service-based entrepreneurs, leaders, and others find the words that describe their worth with bio writing, website writing, elevator pitches, and custom content marketing strategies. A former journalist and award-winning public speaker, she’s had her own story of personal transformation viewed over 1 million times on social media.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2371</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f86e0bfc-ef0e-11eb-bab8-572496d8fcdb]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5009184448.mp3?updated=1627414529" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>Engaging Members and Supporters Through Live or Virtual Entertainment Events</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/the-real-magic-of-message-driven-entertainment-events/</link>
      <description>Engaging Members and Supporters Through Live or Virtual Entertainment Events
Interview with Joe M. Turner

Before the pandemic, it was already the case that organizations needed creative new ways to engage with their audiences of supporters and donors. While the pandemic required us to add new tools and approaches to the mix, the need to engage and communicate changed in that it became more important, but in some ways more difficult.
During his career in the management consulting industry, Joe M. Turner worked with clients in multiple industries to help them engage and equip their various stakeholders in the changes that were being implemented to help them achieve greater success. Much of this comes down to effective storytelling and the ability to keep change advocates and agents informed, excited, and vocal.
Joe applies the art of theatrical illusion to the communication of important messages, helping leaders create events that emphasize and underline their important messages in fun and memorable ways. The use of pattern-interrupting, message-driven entertainment can be an effective way to get a message seen, remembered, and acted upon
Joe M. Turner is a 20-year veteran corporate entertainer, keynote speaker, and emcee/meeting host. Following a management consulting career, Joe jumped headlong into professional magic, which he has performed on six continents and at thousands of venues on land and at sea — including the Magic Castle, the London Palladium, and television programs across the US, South America, and Europe. Joe’s talent, charm, and unexpected insights have put him in high demand as a keynote speaker for organizations that want to understand and create amazing experiences for customers, employees, donors, and other audiences. His solo virtual show, “Remotely Entertaining,” was recommended in The New York Times. You can find out more about him on Wikipedia, his website, or his social media: visit turnermagic.com or bio.fm/turnermagic.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2021 13:34:36 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Engaging Members and Supporters Through Live or Virtual Entertainment Events</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Speaker and Magician Joe M. Turner</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Engaging Members and Supporters Through Live or Virtual Entertainment Events
Interview with Joe M. Turner

Before the pandemic, it was already the case that organizations needed creative new ways to engage with their audiences of supporters and donors. While the pandemic required us to add new tools and approaches to the mix, the need to engage and communicate changed in that it became more important, but in some ways more difficult.
During his career in the management consulting industry, Joe M. Turner worked with clients in multiple industries to help them engage and equip their various stakeholders in the changes that were being implemented to help them achieve greater success. Much of this comes down to effective storytelling and the ability to keep change advocates and agents informed, excited, and vocal.
Joe applies the art of theatrical illusion to the communication of important messages, helping leaders create events that emphasize and underline their important messages in fun and memorable ways. The use of pattern-interrupting, message-driven entertainment can be an effective way to get a message seen, remembered, and acted upon
Joe M. Turner is a 20-year veteran corporate entertainer, keynote speaker, and emcee/meeting host. Following a management consulting career, Joe jumped headlong into professional magic, which he has performed on six continents and at thousands of venues on land and at sea — including the Magic Castle, the London Palladium, and television programs across the US, South America, and Europe. Joe’s talent, charm, and unexpected insights have put him in high demand as a keynote speaker for organizations that want to understand and create amazing experiences for customers, employees, donors, and other audiences. His solo virtual show, “Remotely Entertaining,” was recommended in The New York Times. You can find out more about him on Wikipedia, his website, or his social media: visit turnermagic.com or bio.fm/turnermagic.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Engaging Members and Supporters Through Live or Virtual Entertainment Events</h1><h1>Interview with Joe M. Turner</h1><p><br></p><p>Before the pandemic, it was already the case that organizations needed creative new ways to engage with their audiences of supporters and donors. While the pandemic required us to add new tools and approaches to the mix, the need to engage and communicate changed in that it became more important, but in some ways more difficult.</p><p>During his career in the management consulting industry, Joe M. Turner worked with clients in multiple industries to help them engage and equip their various stakeholders in the changes that were being implemented to help them achieve greater success. Much of this comes down to effective storytelling and the ability to keep change advocates and agents informed, excited, and vocal.</p><p>Joe applies the art of theatrical illusion to the communication of important messages, helping leaders create events that emphasize and underline their important messages in fun and memorable ways. The use of pattern-interrupting, message-driven entertainment can be an effective way to get a message seen, remembered, and acted upon</p><p><strong>Joe M. Turner</strong> is a 20-year veteran corporate entertainer, keynote speaker, and emcee/meeting host. Following a management consulting career, Joe jumped headlong into professional magic, which he has performed on six continents and at thousands of venues on land and at sea — including the Magic Castle, the London Palladium, and television programs across the US, South America, and Europe. Joe’s talent, charm, and unexpected insights have put him in high demand as a keynote speaker for organizations that want to understand and create amazing experiences for customers, employees, donors, and other audiences. His solo virtual show, “Remotely Entertaining,” was recommended in The New York Times. You can find out more about him on Wikipedia, his website, or his social media: visit turnermagic.com or bio.fm/turnermagic.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2657</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Nonprofit Leadership Strategies from a Venture Capitalist</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/nonprofit-leadership-strategies-from-a-venture-capitalist/</link>
      <description>Effective Decision Making: Thinking Critically (and Rationally) • Cultivating Next Generation Leader 
Interview with Sam Palazzolo

As a Venture Capitalist, I’ve encountered thousands of leaders that continue to do the wrong thing, when right is available to them. Why? They make these wrong decisions because of typically two reasons: (1) They don’t have all the information necessary to make the right decision – Either they don’t have, don’t get, or don’t know where to find, (2) They don’t ask questions to those that can provide the right decision. These wrong decision-making strategies, unfortunately, get handed down to next-generation leaders as well.
Sam Palazzolo is the Founder/Managing Director at Tip of the Spear Ventures, a Private Equity firm that provides early-stage entrepreneurs with venture capital, has a holding portfolio from Mergers &amp; Acquisitions, and conducts Business Funding services.
During Sam’s time at Tip, he and his team built the organization into one of Venture Capital’s favorite firms, a sustainable leader, and an innovation early-adopter, dramatically increasing customer satisfaction and growing financial results for the companies they help grow. His greatest achievement, however, may have been to make himself a better leader: he decided to work on his leadership skills relentlessly, and grow the next generation of leaders.
﻿Sam’s purpose in life is to make a positive difference in people around him and use the platform he has to make a positive difference in the world. In addition to serving on several board of directors, he spends time as an Adjunct Professor at the University of Nevada Las Vegas and supporting other leaders seeking to become the best versions of themselves and to lead with purpose and humanity at the Javelin Institute, a 501(c)(3) he founded. He is also actively invested in efforts to advance meaningful diversity and inclusion.
More about Sam at https://tipofthespearventures.com/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2021 22:28:35 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Nonprofit Leadership Strategies from a Venture Capitalist</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Effective Decision Making: Thinking Critically (and Rationally) • Cultivating Next Generation Leader</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Effective Decision Making: Thinking Critically (and Rationally) • Cultivating Next Generation Leader 
Interview with Sam Palazzolo

As a Venture Capitalist, I’ve encountered thousands of leaders that continue to do the wrong thing, when right is available to them. Why? They make these wrong decisions because of typically two reasons: (1) They don’t have all the information necessary to make the right decision – Either they don’t have, don’t get, or don’t know where to find, (2) They don’t ask questions to those that can provide the right decision. These wrong decision-making strategies, unfortunately, get handed down to next-generation leaders as well.
Sam Palazzolo is the Founder/Managing Director at Tip of the Spear Ventures, a Private Equity firm that provides early-stage entrepreneurs with venture capital, has a holding portfolio from Mergers &amp; Acquisitions, and conducts Business Funding services.
During Sam’s time at Tip, he and his team built the organization into one of Venture Capital’s favorite firms, a sustainable leader, and an innovation early-adopter, dramatically increasing customer satisfaction and growing financial results for the companies they help grow. His greatest achievement, however, may have been to make himself a better leader: he decided to work on his leadership skills relentlessly, and grow the next generation of leaders.
﻿Sam’s purpose in life is to make a positive difference in people around him and use the platform he has to make a positive difference in the world. In addition to serving on several board of directors, he spends time as an Adjunct Professor at the University of Nevada Las Vegas and supporting other leaders seeking to become the best versions of themselves and to lead with purpose and humanity at the Javelin Institute, a 501(c)(3) he founded. He is also actively invested in efforts to advance meaningful diversity and inclusion.
More about Sam at https://tipofthespearventures.com/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Effective Decision Making: Thinking Critically (and Rationally) • Cultivating Next Generation Leader </strong></h1><h1><strong>Interview with Sam Palazzolo</strong></h1><p><br></p><p>As a Venture Capitalist, I’ve encountered thousands of leaders that continue to do the wrong thing, when right is available to them. Why? They make these wrong decisions because of typically two reasons: (1) They don’t have all the information necessary to make the right decision – Either they don’t have, don’t get, or don’t know where to find, (2) They don’t ask questions to those that can provide the right decision. These wrong decision-making strategies, unfortunately, get handed down to next-generation leaders as well.</p><p><strong>Sam Palazzolo</strong> is the Founder/Managing Director at Tip of the Spear Ventures, a Private Equity firm that provides early-stage entrepreneurs with venture capital, has a holding portfolio from Mergers &amp; Acquisitions, and conducts Business Funding services.</p><p>During Sam’s time at Tip, he and his team built the organization into one of Venture Capital’s favorite firms, a sustainable leader, and an innovation early-adopter, dramatically increasing customer satisfaction and growing financial results for the companies they help grow. His greatest achievement, however, may have been to make himself a better leader: he decided to work on his leadership skills relentlessly, and grow the next generation of leaders.</p><p>﻿Sam’s purpose in life is to make a positive difference in people around him and use the platform he has to make a positive difference in the world. In addition to serving on several board of directors, he spends time as an Adjunct Professor at the University of Nevada Las Vegas and supporting other leaders seeking to become the best versions of themselves and to lead with purpose and humanity at the Javelin Institute, a 501(c)(3) he founded. He is also actively invested in efforts to advance meaningful diversity and inclusion.</p><p>More about Sam at <a href="https://tipofthespearventures.com/"><strong>https://tipofthespearventures.com/</strong></a></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2590</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Justice in the Courtroom, Service in the Community</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-justice-in-the-courtroom/</link>
      <description>Justice in the Courtroom, Service in the Community Interview with Daniel K. Kramer, President of Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charities
With responsibility in the courtroom, comes responsibility in the community. Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charitieshaveremained a strong source of support to the greater Los Angeles community through the hard times of 2020, and have begun their volunteer events for the year. Kramer will be able to speak on what makes LATLC so successful and the message of "Justice in the Courtroom, Service in the Community"
Daniel K. Kramer is an award-winning trial attorney and Founding partner of Kramer Trial Lawyers. Kramer specializes in representing families and individuals involved in catastrophic personal injury and wrongful death matters, as well as employment discrimination and retaliation lawsuits. Daniel has obtained numerous jury verdicts as lead counsel, all victories on behalf of his clients. Multiple verdicts have been featured in both The Daily Journal, Verdict Search, The Huffington Post, and Fox 11 News.
Daniel is the 2021 President of Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charities, the nonprofit organization that is making a difference in the greater Los Angeles community. They have several events coming up including their Mothers Day Celebration for Bresee Youth Center and the highly anticipated Summer Soiree.
Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charities was founded in 2006 by seven plaintiff personal injury attorneys whose mission was to make a tangible, positive difference in the community through financial support and volunteer service. Today, LATLC focuses on education, children, survivors of abuse, persons with disabilities, and homelessness. Since its launch, the LATLC has grown to more than 3,000 supporters, provided more than $5 million in grants and goods, and volunteered over 6000 hours.
For more information, go to http://www.latlc.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2021 21:20:28 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Justice in the Courtroom, Service in the Community</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Daniel K. Kramer, President of Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charities</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Justice in the Courtroom, Service in the Community Interview with Daniel K. Kramer, President of Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charities
With responsibility in the courtroom, comes responsibility in the community. Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charitieshaveremained a strong source of support to the greater Los Angeles community through the hard times of 2020, and have begun their volunteer events for the year. Kramer will be able to speak on what makes LATLC so successful and the message of "Justice in the Courtroom, Service in the Community"
Daniel K. Kramer is an award-winning trial attorney and Founding partner of Kramer Trial Lawyers. Kramer specializes in representing families and individuals involved in catastrophic personal injury and wrongful death matters, as well as employment discrimination and retaliation lawsuits. Daniel has obtained numerous jury verdicts as lead counsel, all victories on behalf of his clients. Multiple verdicts have been featured in both The Daily Journal, Verdict Search, The Huffington Post, and Fox 11 News.
Daniel is the 2021 President of Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charities, the nonprofit organization that is making a difference in the greater Los Angeles community. They have several events coming up including their Mothers Day Celebration for Bresee Youth Center and the highly anticipated Summer Soiree.
Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charities was founded in 2006 by seven plaintiff personal injury attorneys whose mission was to make a tangible, positive difference in the community through financial support and volunteer service. Today, LATLC focuses on education, children, survivors of abuse, persons with disabilities, and homelessness. Since its launch, the LATLC has grown to more than 3,000 supporters, provided more than $5 million in grants and goods, and volunteered over 6000 hours.
For more information, go to http://www.latlc.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Justice in the Courtroom, Service in the Community Interview with Daniel K. Kramer, President of Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charities</strong></h1><p>With responsibility in the courtroom, comes responsibility in the community. <strong>Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charities</strong>haveremained a strong source of support to the greater Los Angeles community through the hard times of 2020, and have begun their volunteer events for the year. Kramer will be able to speak on what makes LATLC so successful and the message of "Justice in the Courtroom, Service in the Community"</p><p><strong>Daniel K. Kramer</strong> is an award-winning trial attorney and Founding partner of Kramer Trial Lawyers. Kramer specializes in representing families and individuals involved in catastrophic personal injury and wrongful death matters, as well as employment discrimination and retaliation lawsuits. Daniel has obtained numerous jury verdicts as lead counsel, all victories on behalf of his clients. Multiple verdicts have been featured in both The Daily Journal, Verdict Search, The Huffington Post, and Fox 11 News.</p><p>Daniel is the 2021 President of Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charities, the nonprofit organization that is making a difference in the greater Los Angeles community. They have several events coming up including their Mothers Day Celebration for Bresee Youth Center and the highly anticipated Summer Soiree.</p><p>Los Angeles Trial Lawyers' Charities was founded in 2006 by seven plaintiff personal injury attorneys whose mission was to make a tangible, positive difference in the community through financial support and volunteer service. Today, LATLC focuses on education, children, survivors of abuse, persons with disabilities, and homelessness. Since its launch, the LATLC has grown to more than 3,000 supporters, provided more than $5 million in grants and goods, and volunteered over 6000 hours.</p><p>For more information, go to <a href="http://www.latlc.org/"><strong>http://www.latlc.org</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3484</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6164275514.mp3?updated=1625674359" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Learn Why Your Social Media Content Strategy Isn’t Working</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/learn-why-your-social-media-content-strategy-isnt-working/</link>
      <description>Learn Why Your Social Media Content Strategy Isn’t Working
Interview with Social Media Strategist, Sarah Olea
Sarah Olea has had the opportunity of working in customer service, sales, public relations, and marketing. With my experience in these different fields, I have created a marketing agency that encompasses all these areas. I have had the pleasure of working with a variety of clients and help ignite the careers of artists, authors, medical professions, and more. I have worked with small to large brands and have executed creative marketing campaigns to capture engaged audiences.
I have a passion for building Social Media strategies and growing my clients’ following. I love collaborating with my team and clients to create engaging viral content. I am a fact-checker and google is my best friend.
More about Sarah Olea and her work at https://www.sociallightllc.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2021 20:02:24 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Learn Why Your Social Media Content Strategy Isn’t Working</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Social Media Strategist, Sarah Olea</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn Why Your Social Media Content Strategy Isn’t Working
Interview with Social Media Strategist, Sarah Olea
Sarah Olea has had the opportunity of working in customer service, sales, public relations, and marketing. With my experience in these different fields, I have created a marketing agency that encompasses all these areas. I have had the pleasure of working with a variety of clients and help ignite the careers of artists, authors, medical professions, and more. I have worked with small to large brands and have executed creative marketing campaigns to capture engaged audiences.
I have a passion for building Social Media strategies and growing my clients’ following. I love collaborating with my team and clients to create engaging viral content. I am a fact-checker and google is my best friend.
More about Sarah Olea and her work at https://www.sociallightllc.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Learn Why Your Social Media Content Strategy Isn’t Working</h1><h1>Interview with Social Media Strategist, Sarah Olea</h1><p><strong>Sarah Olea</strong> has had the opportunity of working in customer service, sales, public relations, and marketing. With my experience in these different fields, I have created a marketing agency that encompasses all these areas. I have had the pleasure of working with a variety of clients and help ignite the careers of artists, authors, medical professions, and more. I have worked with small to large brands and have executed creative marketing campaigns to capture engaged audiences.</p><p>I have a passion for building Social Media strategies and growing my clients’ following. I love collaborating with my team and clients to create engaging viral content. I am a fact-checker and google is my best friend.</p><p>More about Sarah Olea and her work at <a href="https://www.sociallightllc.com"><strong>https://www.sociallightllc.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3606</itunes:duration>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8777035065.mp3?updated=1625011911" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What Sets Great Leaders Apart</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/what-sets-great-leaders-apart/</link>
      <description>What Sets Great Leaders Apart
Interview with Leadership Coach Lisa Anna Palmer


“Progressive leaders realize that to build high-performing teams and achieve the success they need to live and work based on fundamental business principles that flow from a love for humanity and the desire for human connection. It is compassion, courage, and competence as a leader that inspires employees to do their very best and give the company a competitive edge. It is profundity, passion, purpose, and perseverance that helps leaders and employees to tap into what is important to them and to pursue their vision regardless of the obstacles they may encounter along the way. It is professionalism, play, philanthropy, and prosperity that engages people to push their limits and to give their very best at work for one another, for clients, and for society. These are the secrets to attracting, retaining, and motivating a talented workforce in the twenty-first century – This is the wisdom that sets great leaders apart.” Excerpt from Light A Fire In Their Hearts by Lisa Anna Palmer
Lisa Anna Palmer, with over 25 years of experience in human resources, organizational development, and executive leadership training, is the international best-selling author of Light A Fire In Their Hearts: The Truth About Leadership (Morgan James Publishing).
A decade ago she founded Cattelan Palmer Consulting. She is now the founder and CEO of the Light Your Leadership Inc., which serves leaders and employees of organizations within the private, public, and non-profit sectors.
Palmer started her career as a consultant for PwC, as part of the Organizational Renewal Group, where she led reengineering teams and conducted international best practices research on HR policies, teams, communications, and other related topics. For nearly 14 years, Palmer worked with government employers, including Canada Mortgage &amp; Housing Corporation, and the Royal Canadian Mint.
Based in Ottawa, Ontario, she consults with companies and individuals in both Canada and the United States. Palmer has shared the stage with globally renowned speakers and has presented to high-ranking dignitaries. She was selected as one of the Top 100 Canadian Professionals for 2020. A highly-requested speaker, she recently spoke at Canadian National Convention for Junior Chamber International, Extreme Leadership Conference in San Diego, Distinctive Women in Canada Conference (GTA), and Canadian Pakistani Affiliate Chamber of Trade.
With a B.A. in Psychology, she is a Certified Extreme Leadership Facilitator, Certified Pro-Active Coach, Certified Passion Test Facilitator, and Cross-Cultural Competencies Facilitator. Fluent in three languages, she trains and leads teams responsible for HR Management, Talent Acquisition, Talent Management, and HR Strategy &amp; Policy.
Palmer, who has contributed chapters to four best-selling books in the 365 Days series, by Jodi Chapman and Dan Teck, has been interviewed by television and radio shows, and podcasts, based in Canada and the United States.
Lisa Is also a proud Ambassador of the “She Did It!” Movement and a C-Suite Executive.
For more about Lisa Anna Palmer go to https://lightyourleadership.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2021 13:35:02 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>What Sets Great Leaders Apart</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Leadership Coach Lisa Anna Palmer</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>What Sets Great Leaders Apart
Interview with Leadership Coach Lisa Anna Palmer


“Progressive leaders realize that to build high-performing teams and achieve the success they need to live and work based on fundamental business principles that flow from a love for humanity and the desire for human connection. It is compassion, courage, and competence as a leader that inspires employees to do their very best and give the company a competitive edge. It is profundity, passion, purpose, and perseverance that helps leaders and employees to tap into what is important to them and to pursue their vision regardless of the obstacles they may encounter along the way. It is professionalism, play, philanthropy, and prosperity that engages people to push their limits and to give their very best at work for one another, for clients, and for society. These are the secrets to attracting, retaining, and motivating a talented workforce in the twenty-first century – This is the wisdom that sets great leaders apart.” Excerpt from Light A Fire In Their Hearts by Lisa Anna Palmer
Lisa Anna Palmer, with over 25 years of experience in human resources, organizational development, and executive leadership training, is the international best-selling author of Light A Fire In Their Hearts: The Truth About Leadership (Morgan James Publishing).
A decade ago she founded Cattelan Palmer Consulting. She is now the founder and CEO of the Light Your Leadership Inc., which serves leaders and employees of organizations within the private, public, and non-profit sectors.
Palmer started her career as a consultant for PwC, as part of the Organizational Renewal Group, where she led reengineering teams and conducted international best practices research on HR policies, teams, communications, and other related topics. For nearly 14 years, Palmer worked with government employers, including Canada Mortgage &amp; Housing Corporation, and the Royal Canadian Mint.
Based in Ottawa, Ontario, she consults with companies and individuals in both Canada and the United States. Palmer has shared the stage with globally renowned speakers and has presented to high-ranking dignitaries. She was selected as one of the Top 100 Canadian Professionals for 2020. A highly-requested speaker, she recently spoke at Canadian National Convention for Junior Chamber International, Extreme Leadership Conference in San Diego, Distinctive Women in Canada Conference (GTA), and Canadian Pakistani Affiliate Chamber of Trade.
With a B.A. in Psychology, she is a Certified Extreme Leadership Facilitator, Certified Pro-Active Coach, Certified Passion Test Facilitator, and Cross-Cultural Competencies Facilitator. Fluent in three languages, she trains and leads teams responsible for HR Management, Talent Acquisition, Talent Management, and HR Strategy &amp; Policy.
Palmer, who has contributed chapters to four best-selling books in the 365 Days series, by Jodi Chapman and Dan Teck, has been interviewed by television and radio shows, and podcasts, based in Canada and the United States.
Lisa Is also a proud Ambassador of the “She Did It!” Movement and a C-Suite Executive.
For more about Lisa Anna Palmer go to https://lightyourleadership.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>What Sets Great Leaders Apart</h1><h1>Interview with Leadership Coach Lisa Anna Palmer</h1><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>“Progressive leaders realize that to build high-performing teams and achieve the success they need to live and work based on fundamental business principles that flow from a love for humanity and the desire for human connection. It is compassion, courage, and competence as a leader that inspires employees to do their very best and give the company a competitive edge. It is profundity, passion, purpose, and perseverance that helps leaders and employees to tap into what is important to them and to pursue their vision regardless of the obstacles they may encounter along the way. It is professionalism, play, philanthropy, and prosperity that engages people to push their limits and to give their very best at work for one another, for clients, and for society. These are the secrets to attracting, retaining, and motivating a talented workforce in the twenty-first century – This is the wisdom that sets great leaders apart.” Excerpt from Light A Fire In Their Hearts by Lisa Anna Palmer</p><p><strong>Lisa Anna Palmer</strong>, with over 25 years of experience in human resources, organizational development, and executive leadership training, is the international best-selling author of Light A Fire In Their Hearts: The Truth About Leadership (Morgan James Publishing).</p><p>A decade ago she founded Cattelan Palmer Consulting. She is now the founder and CEO of the Light Your Leadership Inc., which serves leaders and employees of organizations within the private, public, and non-profit sectors.</p><p>Palmer started her career as a consultant for PwC, as part of the Organizational Renewal Group, where she led reengineering teams and conducted international best practices research on HR policies, teams, communications, and other related topics. For nearly 14 years, Palmer worked with government employers, including Canada Mortgage &amp; Housing Corporation, and the Royal Canadian Mint.</p><p>Based in Ottawa, Ontario, she consults with companies and individuals in both Canada and the United States. Palmer has shared the stage with globally renowned speakers and has presented to high-ranking dignitaries. She was selected as one of the Top 100 Canadian Professionals for 2020. A highly-requested speaker, she recently spoke at Canadian National Convention for Junior Chamber International, Extreme Leadership Conference in San Diego, Distinctive Women in Canada Conference (GTA), and Canadian Pakistani Affiliate Chamber of Trade.</p><p>With a B.A. in Psychology, she is a Certified Extreme Leadership Facilitator, Certified Pro-Active Coach, Certified Passion Test Facilitator, and Cross-Cultural Competencies Facilitator. Fluent in three languages, she trains and leads teams responsible for HR Management, Talent Acquisition, Talent Management, and HR Strategy &amp; Policy.</p><p>Palmer, who has contributed chapters to four best-selling books in the 365 Days series, by Jodi Chapman and Dan Teck, has been interviewed by television and radio shows, and podcasts, based in Canada and the United States.</p><p>Lisa Is also a proud Ambassador of the “She Did It!” Movement and a C-Suite Executive.</p><p>For more about Lisa Anna Palmer go to <a href="https://lightyourleadership.com/"><strong>https://lightyourleadership.com/</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3566</itunes:duration>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Outreach Strategies and Donor Communication</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/outreach-strategies-and-donor-communication/</link>
      <description>Outreach Strategies and Donor Communication with Communication Specialist, David Wachs
Handwritten communication is one of the most underutilized forms of donor outreach. It has 3 times the open rate than standard open rates and nearly 23X the response rates.
A serial entrepreneur, David Wach‘s latest venture, Handwrytten, is bringing back the lost art of letter writing through scalable, robot-based solutions that write your notes in pen. Developed as a platform, Handwrytten lets you send notes from your CRM system, such as Salesforce, the website, apps, or through custom integration. Used by major meal boxes, eCommerce giants, nonprofits, and professionals, Handwrytten is changing the way brands and people connect.
Prior to his current initiatives, David founded Cellit, a mobile marketing platform and mobile agency. Under David’s leadership, Cellit became a leading player in the mobile marketing space and invented the concept of mobile customer relationship management (Mobile CRM). Cellit developed one of the most robust and widely used mobile marketing platforms in the world, delivering millions of SMS and MMS messages to consumers daily. Cellit was sold to HelloWord (f/k/a ePrize) in January of 2012.
David is also a frequent speaker on marketing technology and has presented for the Direct Marketing Association, South By Southwest, Advertising Research Foundation, and the National Restaurant Association. David has been interviewed by The Wall Street Journal, USA TODAY, Variety, Washington Post, and many more.
Both Handwrytten and Cellit were on Inc. Magazine’s Inc 500 list of fastest-growing companies. David now also writes for Inc. Magazine with his column “Stepping Away from the Day to Day”.
For more information, go to: https://www.handwrytten.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2021 21:05:02 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Outreach Strategies and Donor Communication</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Communication Expert, David Wachs</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Outreach Strategies and Donor Communication with Communication Specialist, David Wachs
Handwritten communication is one of the most underutilized forms of donor outreach. It has 3 times the open rate than standard open rates and nearly 23X the response rates.
A serial entrepreneur, David Wach‘s latest venture, Handwrytten, is bringing back the lost art of letter writing through scalable, robot-based solutions that write your notes in pen. Developed as a platform, Handwrytten lets you send notes from your CRM system, such as Salesforce, the website, apps, or through custom integration. Used by major meal boxes, eCommerce giants, nonprofits, and professionals, Handwrytten is changing the way brands and people connect.
Prior to his current initiatives, David founded Cellit, a mobile marketing platform and mobile agency. Under David’s leadership, Cellit became a leading player in the mobile marketing space and invented the concept of mobile customer relationship management (Mobile CRM). Cellit developed one of the most robust and widely used mobile marketing platforms in the world, delivering millions of SMS and MMS messages to consumers daily. Cellit was sold to HelloWord (f/k/a ePrize) in January of 2012.
David is also a frequent speaker on marketing technology and has presented for the Direct Marketing Association, South By Southwest, Advertising Research Foundation, and the National Restaurant Association. David has been interviewed by The Wall Street Journal, USA TODAY, Variety, Washington Post, and many more.
Both Handwrytten and Cellit were on Inc. Magazine’s Inc 500 list of fastest-growing companies. David now also writes for Inc. Magazine with his column “Stepping Away from the Day to Day”.
For more information, go to: https://www.handwrytten.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Outreach Strategies and Donor Communication with Communication Specialist, David Wachs</h1><p>Handwritten communication is one of the most underutilized forms of donor outreach. It has 3 times the open rate than standard open rates and nearly 23X the response rates.</p><p>A serial entrepreneur, <strong>David Wach</strong>‘s latest venture, Handwrytten, is bringing back the lost art of letter writing through scalable, robot-based solutions that write your notes in pen. Developed as a platform, Handwrytten lets you send notes from your CRM system, such as Salesforce, the website, apps, or through custom integration. Used by major meal boxes, eCommerce giants, nonprofits, and professionals, Handwrytten is changing the way brands and people connect.</p><p>Prior to his current initiatives, David founded Cellit, a mobile marketing platform and mobile agency. Under David’s leadership, Cellit became a leading player in the mobile marketing space and invented the concept of mobile customer relationship management (Mobile CRM). Cellit developed one of the most robust and widely used mobile marketing platforms in the world, delivering millions of SMS and MMS messages to consumers daily. Cellit was sold to HelloWord (f/k/a ePrize) in January of 2012.</p><p>David is also a frequent speaker on marketing technology and has presented for the Direct Marketing Association, South By Southwest, Advertising Research Foundation, and the National Restaurant Association. David has been interviewed by The Wall Street Journal, USA TODAY, Variety, Washington Post, and many more.</p><p>Both Handwrytten and Cellit were on Inc. Magazine’s Inc 500 list of fastest-growing companies. David now also writes for Inc. Magazine with his column “Stepping Away from the Day to Day”.</p><p>For more information, go to: <a href="https://www.handwrytten.com/"><strong>https://www.handwrytten.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3522</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>Reimagining the University of Lynchburg and Building Partnerships with Lynchburg with President Alison Morrison-Shetlar</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/npe-reimagining-university/</link>
      <description>Reimagining the University of Lynchburg and Building Partnerships with Lynchburg with President Alison Morrison-Shetlar

President Alison Morrison-Shetlar describes herself as a “servant leader.” She is the first person born outside the U.S. and the first woman to serve as the University of Lynchburg’s president. Her term began in August 2020.
As the COVID-19 pandemic started to take hold in the U.S., the then-president-elect launched a fledgling effort to sew cloth face masks for the University community. The initiative, which she called “Sewcial Hornets,” eventually involved more than 360 “voluntailors” — students, faculty, staff, alumni, parents, and friends of the University — who made over 8,500 masks.
President Alison, as she likes to be called, spent her first official day in office serving the greater Lynchburg community at Building Our Community Together, an event that brings together area universities, nonprofits, and other groups. In partnership with her favorite nonprofit, Samaritan’s Feet International, and the University’s Master of Nonprofit Leadership Studies program, she handed out free shoes and socks to about 400 local children.
Raised on the Scottish Isle of Bute, President Alison says she was “just an average kid.” Her father was the county clerk, her mother was a homemaker. At Rothesay Academy, she played basketball and field hockey and competed on the track and field team in the high jump, long jump, and 100-meter dash. At age 18, she left home for Dundee College of Technology — now Abertay University — where she earned a Bachelor of Science, with honors, in biology and chemistry, and a PhD in biomedical sciences.
As a first-generation college student, she originally wanted to be-come a laboratory technician and get an associate degree. Dundee’s president encouraged her to pursue a bachelor’s degree in biology and chemistry instead. She graduated second in her class.
She went on to do postdoctoral research at the Kennedy Institute of Rheumatology in London, then became chair of the molecular biology unit at the Max Planck Institute in Dortmund, Germany, and a teach- er-scholar at Bochum University in Bochum, Germany.
In 1993, she followed her husband, Robert Shetlar, to the U.S., where he had a postdoctoral position in Connecticut. Over the next 20 years, she held teaching, research, and administrative positions at colleges and universities in Maine, Connecticut, Georgia, Florida, and North Carolina. Most recently, she served as interim chancellor at Western Carolina University.
On their first day in the office at Lynchburg, President Alison and her husband, the “first gentleman,” announced a new endowed scholarship to support student success.
They also adopted a “first dog,” black Lab puppy Molly, who will accompany them as they hike the campus trails and in the Blue Ridge Mountains.
Meanwhile, President Alison is working with the campus community and city partners on three University pillars: leadership development; diversity, equity, and inclusion; and innovation and collaboration. The latter includes a think tank and research hub for the Lynchburg community.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2021 13:17:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>Reimagining the University of Lynchburg and Building Partnerships with Lynchburg with President Alison Morrison-Shetlar</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/a3db0e48-c923-11eb-847b-83a8e3647303/image/Dr.Allison_Morrison-Shetlar.jpg?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leading Higher Education</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Reimagining the University of Lynchburg and Building Partnerships with Lynchburg with President Alison Morrison-Shetlar

President Alison Morrison-Shetlar describes herself as a “servant leader.” She is the first person born outside the U.S. and the first woman to serve as the University of Lynchburg’s president. Her term began in August 2020.
As the COVID-19 pandemic started to take hold in the U.S., the then-president-elect launched a fledgling effort to sew cloth face masks for the University community. The initiative, which she called “Sewcial Hornets,” eventually involved more than 360 “voluntailors” — students, faculty, staff, alumni, parents, and friends of the University — who made over 8,500 masks.
President Alison, as she likes to be called, spent her first official day in office serving the greater Lynchburg community at Building Our Community Together, an event that brings together area universities, nonprofits, and other groups. In partnership with her favorite nonprofit, Samaritan’s Feet International, and the University’s Master of Nonprofit Leadership Studies program, she handed out free shoes and socks to about 400 local children.
Raised on the Scottish Isle of Bute, President Alison says she was “just an average kid.” Her father was the county clerk, her mother was a homemaker. At Rothesay Academy, she played basketball and field hockey and competed on the track and field team in the high jump, long jump, and 100-meter dash. At age 18, she left home for Dundee College of Technology — now Abertay University — where she earned a Bachelor of Science, with honors, in biology and chemistry, and a PhD in biomedical sciences.
As a first-generation college student, she originally wanted to be-come a laboratory technician and get an associate degree. Dundee’s president encouraged her to pursue a bachelor’s degree in biology and chemistry instead. She graduated second in her class.
She went on to do postdoctoral research at the Kennedy Institute of Rheumatology in London, then became chair of the molecular biology unit at the Max Planck Institute in Dortmund, Germany, and a teach- er-scholar at Bochum University in Bochum, Germany.
In 1993, she followed her husband, Robert Shetlar, to the U.S., where he had a postdoctoral position in Connecticut. Over the next 20 years, she held teaching, research, and administrative positions at colleges and universities in Maine, Connecticut, Georgia, Florida, and North Carolina. Most recently, she served as interim chancellor at Western Carolina University.
On their first day in the office at Lynchburg, President Alison and her husband, the “first gentleman,” announced a new endowed scholarship to support student success.
They also adopted a “first dog,” black Lab puppy Molly, who will accompany them as they hike the campus trails and in the Blue Ridge Mountains.
Meanwhile, President Alison is working with the campus community and city partners on three University pillars: leadership development; diversity, equity, and inclusion; and innovation and collaboration. The latter includes a think tank and research hub for the Lynchburg community.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Reimagining the University of Lynchburg and Building Partnerships with Lynchburg with President Alison Morrison-Shetlar</h1><p><br></p><p><strong>President Alison Morrison-Shetlar</strong> describes herself as a “servant leader.” She is the first person born outside the U.S. and the first woman to serve as the University of Lynchburg’s president. Her term began in August 2020.</p><p>As the COVID-19 pandemic started to take hold in the U.S., the then-president-elect launched a fledgling effort to sew cloth face masks for the University community. The initiative, which she called “Sewcial Hornets,” eventually involved more than 360 “voluntailors” — students, faculty, staff, alumni, parents, and friends of the University — who made over 8,500 masks.</p><p>President Alison, as she likes to be called, spent her first official day in office serving the greater Lynchburg community at Building Our Community Together, an event that brings together area universities, nonprofits, and other groups. In partnership with her favorite nonprofit, Samaritan’s Feet International, and the University’s Master of Nonprofit Leadership Studies program, she handed out free shoes and socks to about 400 local children.</p><p>Raised on the Scottish Isle of Bute, President Alison says she was “just an average kid.” Her father was the county clerk, her mother was a homemaker. At Rothesay Academy, she played basketball and field hockey and competed on the track and field team in the high jump, long jump, and 100-meter dash. At age 18, she left home for Dundee College of Technology — now Abertay University — where she earned a Bachelor of Science, with honors, in biology and chemistry, and a PhD in biomedical sciences.</p><p>As a first-generation college student, she originally wanted to be-come a laboratory technician and get an associate degree. Dundee’s president encouraged her to pursue a bachelor’s degree in biology and chemistry instead. She graduated second in her class.</p><p>She went on to do postdoctoral research at the Kennedy Institute of Rheumatology in London, then became chair of the molecular biology unit at the Max Planck Institute in Dortmund, Germany, and a teach- er-scholar at Bochum University in Bochum, Germany.</p><p>In 1993, she followed her husband, Robert Shetlar, to the U.S., where he had a postdoctoral position in Connecticut. Over the next 20 years, she held teaching, research, and administrative positions at colleges and universities in Maine, Connecticut, Georgia, Florida, and North Carolina. Most recently, she served as interim chancellor at Western Carolina University.</p><p>On their first day in the office at Lynchburg, President Alison and her husband, the “first gentleman,” announced a new endowed scholarship to support student success.</p><p>They also adopted a “first dog,” black Lab puppy Molly, who will accompany them as they hike the campus trails and in the Blue Ridge Mountains.</p><p>Meanwhile, President Alison is working with the campus community and city partners on three University pillars: leadership development; diversity, equity, and inclusion; and innovation and collaboration. The latter includes a think tank and research hub for the Lynchburg community.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3639</itunes:duration>
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      <title>5 Leadership Strategies to Maximize Personality for Performance</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/5-leadership-strategies-to-maximize-personality-for-performance/</link>
      <description>5 Leadership Strategies to Maximize Personality for Performance: Developing the Leaders Around You Interview with Pat Tamakloe
Leaders are uniquely qualified by their inherent ability to "see" things that most or the typical eye may not pick up on. With that comes their personalities and how that fits into the environment and people they lead. Whether this is a church setting between pastors, priests, or deacons with their parishioners, a board of directors among their members, or a facility that provides services for the underprivileged. In all these cases, one's personality or behavior can be overbearing, overly passive, or dismissive when interacting with others. Therefore, understanding how one's own personality or tendencies affect others and how to employ those behavioral tendencies to be effective in leadership is imperative. Knowing strategies that enhance performance, by knowing what each leader's behavioral profile is, can pay dividends in knowing how effective or how well, one is leading to be impactful in all outcomes.

Pat A. Tamakloe, Ph.D. (“Dr. PAT”) is the President/Chief Executive Officer of GLOBAL REACH Leadership Institute, a Leadership Strategy Consulting and Training firm, and the founder of Tamakloe &amp; Co, LLC, a leadership literature enterprise based in Virginia Beach, Virginia. As an organizational leadership expert, he has worked with a myriad of leaders and corporate executives, from startups and small businesses to a franchise organization in the United States (US) and abroad.
He is a leadership strategy consultant, certified speaker, executive coach, team- trainer, author, and C-Suite Network Advisor. He also co-pastors in the Norfolk, Virginia congregation of an International Church, and he is on the adjunct faculty of a local university. His work has included speaking internationally to non-profit/for-profit organizations, international radio shows, international schools, as well as business executive teams nationally and abroad.
Dr. PAT’s 23-year US naval service before he retired from the enlisted to officer ranks included leading in various US and overseas capacities. His vast executive acumen and broad expertise in multi-national strategic, tactical, and leadership training for organizational leadership and personal growth make him an emerging leadership authority and change agent on the global leadership front. His passion for mentorship and leadership development across all leadership continuums has earned him influential positions on various local and international Boards of Directors.
He currently lives in Virginia Beach, VA, with his family.
For more information, go to https://globalreachleaders.com

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 01 Jun 2021 22:32:09 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>5 Leadership Strategies to Maximize Personality for Performance</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Developing the Leaders Around You Interview with Pat Tamakloe</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>5 Leadership Strategies to Maximize Personality for Performance: Developing the Leaders Around You Interview with Pat Tamakloe
Leaders are uniquely qualified by their inherent ability to "see" things that most or the typical eye may not pick up on. With that comes their personalities and how that fits into the environment and people they lead. Whether this is a church setting between pastors, priests, or deacons with their parishioners, a board of directors among their members, or a facility that provides services for the underprivileged. In all these cases, one's personality or behavior can be overbearing, overly passive, or dismissive when interacting with others. Therefore, understanding how one's own personality or tendencies affect others and how to employ those behavioral tendencies to be effective in leadership is imperative. Knowing strategies that enhance performance, by knowing what each leader's behavioral profile is, can pay dividends in knowing how effective or how well, one is leading to be impactful in all outcomes.

Pat A. Tamakloe, Ph.D. (“Dr. PAT”) is the President/Chief Executive Officer of GLOBAL REACH Leadership Institute, a Leadership Strategy Consulting and Training firm, and the founder of Tamakloe &amp; Co, LLC, a leadership literature enterprise based in Virginia Beach, Virginia. As an organizational leadership expert, he has worked with a myriad of leaders and corporate executives, from startups and small businesses to a franchise organization in the United States (US) and abroad.
He is a leadership strategy consultant, certified speaker, executive coach, team- trainer, author, and C-Suite Network Advisor. He also co-pastors in the Norfolk, Virginia congregation of an International Church, and he is on the adjunct faculty of a local university. His work has included speaking internationally to non-profit/for-profit organizations, international radio shows, international schools, as well as business executive teams nationally and abroad.
Dr. PAT’s 23-year US naval service before he retired from the enlisted to officer ranks included leading in various US and overseas capacities. His vast executive acumen and broad expertise in multi-national strategic, tactical, and leadership training for organizational leadership and personal growth make him an emerging leadership authority and change agent on the global leadership front. His passion for mentorship and leadership development across all leadership continuums has earned him influential positions on various local and international Boards of Directors.
He currently lives in Virginia Beach, VA, with his family.
For more information, go to https://globalreachleaders.com

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>5 Leadership Strategies to Maximize Personality for Performance: Developing the Leaders Around You Interview with Pat Tamakloe</strong></h1><p>Leaders are uniquely qualified by their inherent ability to "see" things that most or the typical eye may not pick up on. With that comes their personalities and how that fits into the environment and people they lead. Whether this is a church setting between pastors, priests, or deacons with their parishioners, a board of directors among their members, or a facility that provides services for the underprivileged. In all these cases, one's personality or behavior can be overbearing, overly passive, or dismissive when interacting with others. Therefore, understanding how one's own personality or tendencies affect others and how to employ those behavioral tendencies to be effective in leadership is imperative. Knowing strategies that enhance performance, by knowing what each leader's behavioral profile is, can pay dividends in knowing how effective or how well, one is leading to be impactful in all outcomes.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Pat A. Tamakloe, Ph.D. (“Dr. PAT”)</strong> is the President/Chief Executive Officer of GLOBAL REACH Leadership Institute, a Leadership Strategy Consulting and Training firm, and the founder of Tamakloe &amp; Co, LLC, a leadership literature enterprise based in Virginia Beach, Virginia. As an organizational leadership expert, he has worked with a myriad of leaders and corporate executives, from startups and small businesses to a franchise organization in the United States (US) and abroad.</p><p>He is a leadership strategy consultant, certified speaker, executive coach, team- trainer, author, and C-Suite Network Advisor. He also co-pastors in the Norfolk, Virginia congregation of an International Church, and he is on the adjunct faculty of a local university. His work has included speaking internationally to non-profit/for-profit organizations, international radio shows, international schools, as well as business executive teams nationally and abroad.</p><p>Dr. PAT’s 23-year US naval service before he retired from the enlisted to officer ranks included leading in various US and overseas capacities. His vast executive acumen and broad expertise in multi-national strategic, tactical, and leadership training for organizational leadership and personal growth make him an emerging leadership authority and change agent on the global leadership front. His passion for mentorship and leadership development across all leadership continuums has earned him influential positions on various local and international Boards of Directors.</p><p>He currently lives in Virginia Beach, VA, with his family.</p><p>For more information, go to <a href="https://globalreachleaders.com/"><strong>https://globalreachleaders.com</strong></a></p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3668</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>What Disney Can Teach You About Your Next Virtual Event</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/what-disney-can-teach-you-about-your-next-virtual-event/</link>
      <description>What Disney Can Teach You About Your Next Virtual Event with Ella Glasgow
Virtual events are here to stay and putting them on can help you reach a wider audience. You CAN make them ROCK for you without pulling your hair out.
Ella Glasgow is an award-winning vocalist, 2-time best-selling author, former Disney Main Stage performer, and the CEO/Producer at Beyond Virtual Events. Meeting planners hire her to create impactful virtual events so they can wow their community, increase connections and commitment to their cause without pulling their hair out trying to deal with the logistics and delivery of their events. She does this using her Signature E.N.C.O.R.E. Method™  for transformational virtual experiences that have their audiences wanting to pay cash money to attend again and again.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2021 22:08:32 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>What Disney Can Teach You About Your Next Virtual Event: Interview with Ella Glasgow</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Ella Glasgow</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>What Disney Can Teach You About Your Next Virtual Event with Ella Glasgow
Virtual events are here to stay and putting them on can help you reach a wider audience. You CAN make them ROCK for you without pulling your hair out.
Ella Glasgow is an award-winning vocalist, 2-time best-selling author, former Disney Main Stage performer, and the CEO/Producer at Beyond Virtual Events. Meeting planners hire her to create impactful virtual events so they can wow their community, increase connections and commitment to their cause without pulling their hair out trying to deal with the logistics and delivery of their events. She does this using her Signature E.N.C.O.R.E. Method™  for transformational virtual experiences that have their audiences wanting to pay cash money to attend again and again.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>What Disney Can Teach You About Your Next Virtual Event with Ella Glasgow</h1><p><strong>Virtual events are here to stay and putting them on can help you reach a wider audience. You CAN make them ROCK for you without pulling your hair out.</strong></p><p><strong>Ella Glasgow</strong> is an award-winning vocalist, 2-time best-selling author, former Disney Main Stage performer, and the CEO/Producer at Beyond Virtual Events. Meeting planners hire her to create impactful virtual events so they can wow their community, increase connections and commitment to their cause without pulling their hair out trying to deal with the logistics and delivery of their events. She does this using her Signature E.N.C.O.R.E. Method™  for transformational virtual experiences that have their audiences wanting to pay cash money to attend again and again.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3518</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>The Danger of Echo Systems Interview with Joel Bryant</title>
      <link>https://synervisionleadership.org/the-danger-of-echo-systems/</link>
      <description>The Danger of Echo Systems
Interview with Joel Bryant
If you are seeking directions to your destiny, you are in the right place! With over 25 years of leadership, sales, and performance development training, Dr. Joel Bryant’s expertise and experience bring a refreshing, enlightening, and inspiring approach to developing a holistic understanding of self and groups within their personal and professional settings. He provides valuable tools and techniques to help you achievehttps://drjoelbryant.webs.com your greatness. Thanks for being here, and know that YOU matter!
FROM HOMELESS TO GREATNESS!
Several years ago I was as frustrated then as you may be now. I didn’t know where I fit, let alone how to find my place in life. But rather than make excuses, I decided to make changes instead, which is what successful people do. Thanks to God’s grace and my grit I now sit in a place I once dreamed about and drooled over. No, I’m not rich or famous, but I am fulfilled! That’s what matters.
In fact, in the last 20 years I’ve written 55 books, published 35, ghost-written two while publishing four books for other writers, In between, I obtained three degrees including a doctorate in Educational Leadership. I’ve also appeared on regional radio and television, served as a university lecturer, newspaper editor, and board member on two area nonprofits, along with other successes I seldom consider because of my quest for greatness. These successes include being a trainer with the Dun and Bradstreet Corporation. In fact, prior to quitting in October of 2000, I was named one of only 61 employees worldwide to receive the company’s highest honor, Best of the Best
Leadership Award, for my role in impacting employee performance and morale.
One year later, however, I was homeless, broke, and bewildered. I also had my car repossessed. Though painful, these experiences prospered because they improved my leadership abilities and self-reliance. They also gave me insight I couldn’t have gotten elsewhere or otherwise. My goal is to share these insights with you and to help you develop your leadership abilities. More importantly, I want to help you achieve YOUR dreams rather than eyeing others.
More about Dr. Bryant at https://drjoelbryant.webs.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2021 17:54:27 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>New Leadership Thinking</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dr. Joel Bryant</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Danger of Echo Systems
Interview with Joel Bryant
If you are seeking directions to your destiny, you are in the right place! With over 25 years of leadership, sales, and performance development training, Dr. Joel Bryant’s expertise and experience bring a refreshing, enlightening, and inspiring approach to developing a holistic understanding of self and groups within their personal and professional settings. He provides valuable tools and techniques to help you achievehttps://drjoelbryant.webs.com your greatness. Thanks for being here, and know that YOU matter!
FROM HOMELESS TO GREATNESS!
Several years ago I was as frustrated then as you may be now. I didn’t know where I fit, let alone how to find my place in life. But rather than make excuses, I decided to make changes instead, which is what successful people do. Thanks to God’s grace and my grit I now sit in a place I once dreamed about and drooled over. No, I’m not rich or famous, but I am fulfilled! That’s what matters.
In fact, in the last 20 years I’ve written 55 books, published 35, ghost-written two while publishing four books for other writers, In between, I obtained three degrees including a doctorate in Educational Leadership. I’ve also appeared on regional radio and television, served as a university lecturer, newspaper editor, and board member on two area nonprofits, along with other successes I seldom consider because of my quest for greatness. These successes include being a trainer with the Dun and Bradstreet Corporation. In fact, prior to quitting in October of 2000, I was named one of only 61 employees worldwide to receive the company’s highest honor, Best of the Best
Leadership Award, for my role in impacting employee performance and morale.
One year later, however, I was homeless, broke, and bewildered. I also had my car repossessed. Though painful, these experiences prospered because they improved my leadership abilities and self-reliance. They also gave me insight I couldn’t have gotten elsewhere or otherwise. My goal is to share these insights with you and to help you develop your leadership abilities. More importantly, I want to help you achieve YOUR dreams rather than eyeing others.
More about Dr. Bryant at https://drjoelbryant.webs.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>The Danger of Echo Systems</h1><h1>Interview with Joel Bryant</h1><p>If you are seeking directions to your destiny, you are in the right place! With over 25 years of leadership, sales, and performance development training, <strong>Dr. Joel Bryant</strong>’s expertise and experience bring a refreshing, enlightening, and inspiring approach to developing a holistic understanding of self and groups within their personal and professional settings. He provides valuable tools and techniques to help you achievehttps://drjoelbryant.webs.com <strong>your</strong> greatness. Thanks for being here, and know that YOU matter!</p><p><strong>FROM HOMELESS TO GREATNESS!</strong></p><p>Several years ago I was as frustrated then as you may be now. I didn’t know where I fit, let alone how to find my place in life. But rather than make excuses, I decided to make changes instead, which is what successful people do. Thanks to God’s grace and my grit I now sit in a place I once dreamed about and drooled over. No, I’m not rich or famous, but I am fulfilled! That’s what matters.</p><p>In fact, in the last 20 years I’ve written 55 books, published 35, ghost-written two while publishing four books for other writers, In between, I obtained three degrees including a doctorate in Educational Leadership. I’ve also appeared on regional radio and television, served as a university lecturer, newspaper editor, and board member on two area nonprofits, along with other successes I seldom consider because of my quest for greatness. These successes include being a trainer with the Dun and Bradstreet Corporation. In fact, prior to quitting in October of 2000, I was named one of only 61 employees worldwide to receive the company’s highest honor, Best of the Best</p><p>Leadership Award, for my role in impacting employee performance and morale.</p><p>One year later, however, I was homeless, broke, and bewildered. I also had my car repossessed. Though painful, these experiences prospered because they improved my leadership abilities and self-reliance. They also gave me insight I couldn’t have gotten elsewhere or otherwise. My goal is to share these insights with you and to help you develop your leadership abilities. More importantly, I want to help you achieve YOUR dreams rather than eyeing others.</p><p>More about Dr. Bryant at <a href="https://drjoelbryant.webs.com/"><strong>https://drjoelbryant.webs.com</strong></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3554</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>What Happens To Youth Who Age Out Of Foster Care?</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/what-happens-to-youth-who-age-out-of-foster-care</link>
      <description>What Happens To Youth Who Age Out Of Foster Care? Interview with Maria Rolf

 Have you ever wondered what happens to foster children after they turn 18? Do they graduate from high school? Move off to college with their friends? Start taking steps toward a future career path? For the average teenager, these are normal milestones that symbolize becoming an independent adult. But for teens who have grown up in the foster system, this new stage of life means being thrown into the real world with few resources, few positive relationships, and even fewer hopes of “making it”. Youth who are aging out of foster care instantly find themselves drowning in fears of poverty and homelessness, with little ability to see beyond the day-to-day. As new legal adults, these youth are primarily concerned with one thing: survival.
 Current statistics for youth aging out of foster care are pretty grim:
  25% become incarcerated within their first year of adulthood
 1 out of every 5 are homeless before their 19th birthday
 3 out of every 4 girls are pregnant before the age of 21
 Fewer than 4% graduate from college
 Only half are employed by the age of 24
 It doesn’t have to be this way
  At Impact Living Services, we are dedicated to changing these outcomes. Our independent living program gives youth the opportunity to transition into adulthood in a safe, secure environment where all of their basic needs are met so they can focus
 on succeeding and thriving as adults. We provide counseling, mentorship, and life skills coaching to make sure that by the time they turn 21, they are able to hold a steady job, have enough money saved to live on their own, and have a community of positive relationships that are going to be cheering them on for the long haul. We desire to help individuals, churches, and other organizations see the needs of this vulnerable population and come around them to help them succeed. This is an “eyes wide open” and “all hands on deck” vision, and we’d love to help you find your role in it.
 After working in the academic world for over 10 years, Maria Rolf joined the Impact Living Services team in 2018 as a mentor and life skills coach to 17-20-year-old foster youth in an independent living program. She now serves as the Mission Advancement Officer, helping to engage and invite communities, churches, businesses, and other organizations to take part in changing outcomes for children and youth aging out of foster care.
   
   
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2021 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/6f0251fa-b329-11eb-9f0f-4f83c2d8e124/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Maria Rolf</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>What Happens To Youth Who Age Out Of Foster Care? Interview with Maria Rolf

 Have you ever wondered what happens to foster children after they turn 18? Do they graduate from high school? Move off to college with their friends? Start taking steps toward a future career path? For the average teenager, these are normal milestones that symbolize becoming an independent adult. But for teens who have grown up in the foster system, this new stage of life means being thrown into the real world with few resources, few positive relationships, and even fewer hopes of “making it”. Youth who are aging out of foster care instantly find themselves drowning in fears of poverty and homelessness, with little ability to see beyond the day-to-day. As new legal adults, these youth are primarily concerned with one thing: survival.
 Current statistics for youth aging out of foster care are pretty grim:
  25% become incarcerated within their first year of adulthood
 1 out of every 5 are homeless before their 19th birthday
 3 out of every 4 girls are pregnant before the age of 21
 Fewer than 4% graduate from college
 Only half are employed by the age of 24
 It doesn’t have to be this way
  At Impact Living Services, we are dedicated to changing these outcomes. Our independent living program gives youth the opportunity to transition into adulthood in a safe, secure environment where all of their basic needs are met so they can focus
 on succeeding and thriving as adults. We provide counseling, mentorship, and life skills coaching to make sure that by the time they turn 21, they are able to hold a steady job, have enough money saved to live on their own, and have a community of positive relationships that are going to be cheering them on for the long haul. We desire to help individuals, churches, and other organizations see the needs of this vulnerable population and come around them to help them succeed. This is an “eyes wide open” and “all hands on deck” vision, and we’d love to help you find your role in it.
 After working in the academic world for over 10 years, Maria Rolf joined the Impact Living Services team in 2018 as a mentor and life skills coach to 17-20-year-old foster youth in an independent living program. She now serves as the Mission Advancement Officer, helping to engage and invite communities, churches, businesses, and other organizations to take part in changing outcomes for children and youth aging out of foster care.
   
   
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1> <strong>What Happens To Youth Who Age Out Of Foster Care? Interview with Maria Rolf</strong>
</h1> <p>Have you ever wondered what happens to foster children after they turn 18? Do they graduate from high school? Move off to college with their friends? Start taking steps toward a future career path? For the average teenager, these are normal milestones that symbolize becoming an independent adult. But for teens who have grown up in the foster system, this new stage of life means being thrown into the real world with few resources, few positive relationships, and even fewer hopes of “making it”. Youth who are aging out of foster care instantly find themselves drowning in fears of poverty and homelessness, with little ability to see beyond the day-to-day. As new legal adults, these youth are primarily concerned with one thing: survival.</p> <p>Current statistics for youth aging out of foster care are pretty grim:</p> <ul> <li>25% become incarcerated within their first year of adulthood</li> <li>1 out of every 5 are homeless before their 19th birthday</li> <li>3 out of every 4 girls are pregnant before the age of 21</li> <li>Fewer than 4% graduate from college</li> <li>Only half are employed by the age of 24</li> <li>It doesn’t have to be this way</li> </ul> <p>At Impact Living Services, we are dedicated to changing these outcomes. Our independent living program gives youth the opportunity to transition into adulthood in a safe, secure environment where all of their basic needs are met so they can focus</p> <p>on succeeding and thriving as adults. We provide counseling, mentorship, and life skills coaching to make sure that by the time they turn 21, they are able to hold a steady job, have enough money saved to live on their own, and have a community of positive relationships that are going to be cheering them on for the long haul. We desire to help individuals, churches, and other organizations see the needs of this vulnerable population and come around them to help them succeed. This is an “eyes wide open” and “all hands on deck” vision, and we’d love to help you find your role in it.</p> <p>After working in the academic world for over 10 years, <strong>Maria Rolf</strong> joined the Impact Living Services team in 2018 as a mentor and life skills coach to 17-20-year-old foster youth in an independent living program. She now serves as the Mission Advancement Officer, helping to engage and invite communities, churches, businesses, and other organizations to take part in changing outcomes for children and youth aging out of foster care.</p>  <p> </p>  <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3342</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[c9b54d4a-0b5b-42d0-93f2-26143ad6e48e]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2590779524.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Conversations that Build Culture and Fuel Performance</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/conversations-that-build-culture-and-fuel-performance</link>
      <description> Fuel for the Journey: Conversations that Build Culture and Fuel Performance with Dan Rockwell

 Dan Rockwell is the author of the highly recognized Leadership Freak blog and co-author of The Character-Based Leader. Leadership Freak, read in virtually every country on the globe, has been recognized as the most socially shared leadership blog on the Internet. Over 400,000 people subscribe to Leadership Freak’s social media channels.
 Inc Magazine lists Dan as a ‘Top Fifty Leadership and Management Expert’ and a ‘Top 100 Great Leadership Speaker’. The American Management Association lists Dan as one of the ‘Top 30 Leaders in Business’.
 Dan coaches and advises leaders, leads workshops, and delivers keynotes to business and community organizations.
 Leaders have an amazing opportunity to make life better for the people on their team or in their organization. One important and sometimes neglected skill is managing and fueling energy; our own, others, and teams.
 Dan will highlight the following in the interview: Reasons organizations seem to battle a downward drag. What are you learning about managing your own energy? How might leaders fuel energy in others and on teams? A 7-step conversation that creates forward movement. (Progress fuels energy.)
 For more information go to https://leadershipfreak.blog
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2021 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/6f1ad7e8-b329-11eb-9f0f-3355909f42ed/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Leadership Freak, Dan Rockwell</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary> Fuel for the Journey: Conversations that Build Culture and Fuel Performance with Dan Rockwell

 Dan Rockwell is the author of the highly recognized Leadership Freak blog and co-author of The Character-Based Leader. Leadership Freak, read in virtually every country on the globe, has been recognized as the most socially shared leadership blog on the Internet. Over 400,000 people subscribe to Leadership Freak’s social media channels.
 Inc Magazine lists Dan as a ‘Top Fifty Leadership and Management Expert’ and a ‘Top 100 Great Leadership Speaker’. The American Management Association lists Dan as one of the ‘Top 30 Leaders in Business’.
 Dan coaches and advises leaders, leads workshops, and delivers keynotes to business and community organizations.
 Leaders have an amazing opportunity to make life better for the people on their team or in their organization. One important and sometimes neglected skill is managing and fueling energy; our own, others, and teams.
 Dan will highlight the following in the interview: Reasons organizations seem to battle a downward drag. What are you learning about managing your own energy? How might leaders fuel energy in others and on teams? A 7-step conversation that creates forward movement. (Progress fuels energy.)
 For more information go to https://leadershipfreak.blog
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>  <strong>Fuel for the Journey: Conversations that Build Culture and Fuel Performance with Dan Rockwell</strong>
</h1> <p><strong>Dan Rockwell</strong> is the author of the highly recognized Leadership Freak blog and co-author of The Character-Based Leader. Leadership Freak, read in virtually every country on the globe, has been recognized as the most socially shared leadership blog on the Internet. Over 400,000 people subscribe to Leadership Freak’s social media channels.</p> <p>Inc Magazine lists Dan as a ‘Top Fifty Leadership and Management Expert’ and a ‘Top 100 Great Leadership Speaker’. The American Management Association lists Dan as one of the ‘Top 30 Leaders in Business’.</p> <p>Dan coaches and advises leaders, leads workshops, and delivers keynotes to business and community organizations.</p> <p>Leaders have an amazing opportunity to make life better for the people on their team or in their organization. One important and sometimes neglected skill is managing and fueling energy; our own, others, and teams.</p> <p>Dan will highlight the following in the interview:<br> Reasons organizations seem to battle a downward drag.<br> What are you learning about managing your own energy?<br> How might leaders fuel energy in others and on teams?<br> A 7-step conversation that creates forward movement. (Progress fuels energy.)</p> <p>For more information go to <strong><a href="https://leadershipfreak.blog/">https://leadershipfreak.blog</a></strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3510</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[992bea9d-6d98-443b-992b-44e92211ad90]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5239026439.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How Much More Money Does Your Nonprofit Need to Bring In?</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-much-more-money-does-your-nonprofit-need-to-bring-in</link>
      <description>How Much More Money Does Your Nonprofit Need to Bring In? With Debbie Mrazek

 Debbie Mrazek coaches and consults with Fortune 500 companies, CEOs, entrepreneurs, non-profit organizations, business startups, and family businesses, helping her clients to identify their toughest business challenges and guiding them through the process of developing and devising a clear, concise plan; a road map to achieving their vision and exponentially growing by working “smarter not harder”. She is passionate about bringing the “fun” back to selling -raising money. Additionally, Debbie is the author of “The Field Guide to Sales” and is a prolific writer and speaker sharing her wealth of experiences and sales growth expertise to numerous organizations and publications. Also, recently recognized by DCEO Magazine as one of the 2021 Dallas 500 - the most powerful business leaders in Dallas-Fort Worth. Also, honored by Dallas Business Journal -Women In Business Award Winner and Tech Titan Community Hero. Currently, Debbie is serving as • Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Businesses Faculty - Sales/Marketing • TeXchange Board of Directors.
 For more information: www.The-Sales-Company.com linkedin.com/in/debbiemrazek
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2021 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/6f2f419c-b329-11eb-9f0f-8b75211f836b/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview With Debbie Mraze</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How Much More Money Does Your Nonprofit Need to Bring In? With Debbie Mrazek

 Debbie Mrazek coaches and consults with Fortune 500 companies, CEOs, entrepreneurs, non-profit organizations, business startups, and family businesses, helping her clients to identify their toughest business challenges and guiding them through the process of developing and devising a clear, concise plan; a road map to achieving their vision and exponentially growing by working “smarter not harder”. She is passionate about bringing the “fun” back to selling -raising money. Additionally, Debbie is the author of “The Field Guide to Sales” and is a prolific writer and speaker sharing her wealth of experiences and sales growth expertise to numerous organizations and publications. Also, recently recognized by DCEO Magazine as one of the 2021 Dallas 500 - the most powerful business leaders in Dallas-Fort Worth. Also, honored by Dallas Business Journal -Women In Business Award Winner and Tech Titan Community Hero. Currently, Debbie is serving as • Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Businesses Faculty - Sales/Marketing • TeXchange Board of Directors.
 For more information: www.The-Sales-Company.com linkedin.com/in/debbiemrazek
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>
<strong>How Much More Money Does</strong> Your <strong>Nonprofit Need to Bring In? With Debbie Mrazek</strong>
</h1> <p><strong>Debbie Mrazek</strong> coaches and consults with Fortune 500 companies, CEOs, entrepreneurs, non-profit organizations, business startups, and family businesses, helping her clients to identify their toughest business challenges and guiding them through the process of developing and devising a clear, concise plan; a road map to achieving their vision and exponentially growing by working “smarter not harder”. She is passionate about bringing the “fun” back to selling -raising money. Additionally, Debbie is the author of “The Field Guide to Sales” and is a prolific writer and speaker sharing her wealth of experiences and sales growth expertise to numerous organizations and publications. Also, recently recognized by DCEO Magazine as one of the 2021 Dallas 500 - the most powerful business leaders in Dallas-Fort Worth. Also, honored by Dallas Business Journal -Women In Business Award Winner and Tech Titan Community Hero. Currently, Debbie is serving as • Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Businesses Faculty - Sales/Marketing • TeXchange Board of Directors.</p> <p><strong>For more information:</strong><br> <strong><a href="http://www.the-sales-company.com/">www.The-Sales-Company.com</a></strong><br> <strong><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbiemrazek/">linkedin.com/in/debbiemrazek</a></strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3573</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[380991a0-efd0-42b6-8d5c-9f825c8e20b1]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5020297650.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Art and Science of Profitable Joint Ventures</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-art-and-science-of-profitable-joint-ventures</link>
      <description>The Art and Science of Profitable Joint Ventures Interview with JVology Founder, Jay Fiset
 Jay Fiset is a best selling author, student of human nature, avid outdoorsman at 5-star hotels, speaks fluent smart ass, can see and reflect your life mission in 5 minutes flat, loves having 2 sons so he can play with their toys, still fantasizes about his wife after 25 years, loves ideas, but loves results, even more, can simultaneously laugh and cry for different reasons at the same time, has never been star struck (but did not get a chance to meet Martin Luther King, and there would have been teenage girl screaming if I had).
 Jay says, "I am dedicated to instigating a global movement of Conscious Creators and supporting people to organize their life and resources around their passions and gifts."
 For more information, go to https://www.JVologyLive.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 14 Apr 2021 19:36:36 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/6f49b25c-b329-11eb-9f0f-c3883dd2465f/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with JVology Founder, Jay Fiset</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Art and Science of Profitable Joint Ventures Interview with JVology Founder, Jay Fiset
 Jay Fiset is a best selling author, student of human nature, avid outdoorsman at 5-star hotels, speaks fluent smart ass, can see and reflect your life mission in 5 minutes flat, loves having 2 sons so he can play with their toys, still fantasizes about his wife after 25 years, loves ideas, but loves results, even more, can simultaneously laugh and cry for different reasons at the same time, has never been star struck (but did not get a chance to meet Martin Luther King, and there would have been teenage girl screaming if I had).
 Jay says, "I am dedicated to instigating a global movement of Conscious Creators and supporting people to organize their life and resources around their passions and gifts."
 For more information, go to https://www.JVologyLive.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>The Art and Science of Profitable Joint Ventures Interview with JVology Founder, Jay Fiset</strong></h1> <p>Jay Fiset is a best selling author, student of human nature, avid outdoorsman at 5-star hotels, speaks fluent smart ass, can see and reflect your life mission in 5 minutes flat, loves having 2 sons so he can play with their toys, still fantasizes about his wife after 25 years, loves ideas, but loves results, even more, can simultaneously laugh and cry for different reasons at the same time, has never been star struck (but did not get a chance to meet Martin Luther King, and there would have been teenage girl screaming if I had).</p> <p>Jay says, "I am dedicated to instigating a global movement of Conscious Creators and supporting people to organize their life and resources around their passions and gifts."</p> <p>For more information, go to <strong><a href="https://www.jvologylive.com/">https://www.JVologyLive.com</a></strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3609</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d5e6f635-80a0-4dfc-8a06-f63dddf771aa]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1996838744.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Instability to Independence via the Lighthouse Model: A fresh look at serving our community</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/instability-to-independence-via-the-lighthouse-model-a-fresh-look-at-serving-our-community</link>
      <description>Instability to Independence via the Lighthouse Model: A fresh look at serving our community

 Finny Mathew is an experienced President with a demonstrated history of working in the packaging and containers industry. A strong business development professional is skilled in Sales, Sales Management, Team Building, Public Speaking, Management, Renewable energy, green technology, Corporate and business management. He had now focused his skills for creating and growing a cause-based charity, the Lighthouse.
 About the Lighthouse
 LIGHTHOUSE COMMUNITY CENTER Lighthouse Community Center is to serve all persons in crisis with basic necessities, support, encouragement, and remedial services that lead to self-sustaining and dignified lives.
 LIGHTHOUSE HEALTH SERVICES Lighthouse Community Health Services offers an array of comprehensive in-person and virtual treatment to all individuals who may be struggling with their mental health.
 LIGHTHOUSE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT Helping low-income individuals and families build wealth through the ownership of safe, and lasting affordable housing in a “Beloved Community” featuring wrap-around supportive services.
 More Information at https://www.thelhcc.org
   
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2021 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/6f5f0ecc-b329-11eb-9f0f-4f6dec1b5ce8/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Instability to Independence via the Lighthouse Model: A fresh look at serving our community Finny Mathew is an experienced President with a demonstrated history of working in the packaging and containers industry. A strong business development...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Instability to Independence via the Lighthouse Model: A fresh look at serving our community

 Finny Mathew is an experienced President with a demonstrated history of working in the packaging and containers industry. A strong business development professional is skilled in Sales, Sales Management, Team Building, Public Speaking, Management, Renewable energy, green technology, Corporate and business management. He had now focused his skills for creating and growing a cause-based charity, the Lighthouse.
 About the Lighthouse
 LIGHTHOUSE COMMUNITY CENTER Lighthouse Community Center is to serve all persons in crisis with basic necessities, support, encouragement, and remedial services that lead to self-sustaining and dignified lives.
 LIGHTHOUSE HEALTH SERVICES Lighthouse Community Health Services offers an array of comprehensive in-person and virtual treatment to all individuals who may be struggling with their mental health.
 LIGHTHOUSE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT Helping low-income individuals and families build wealth through the ownership of safe, and lasting affordable housing in a “Beloved Community” featuring wrap-around supportive services.
 More Information at https://www.thelhcc.org
   
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1> <strong>Instability to Independence via the Lighthouse Model: A fresh look at serving our community</strong>
</h1> <p><strong>Finny Mathew</strong> is an experienced President with a demonstrated history of working in the packaging and containers industry. A strong business development professional is skilled in Sales, Sales Management, Team Building, Public Speaking, Management, Renewable energy, green technology, Corporate and business management. He had now focused his skills for creating and growing a cause-based charity, the Lighthouse.</p> <p><strong>About the Lighthouse</strong></p> LIGHTHOUSE COMMUNITY CENTER <p>Lighthouse Community Center is to serve all persons in crisis with basic necessities, support, encouragement, and remedial services that lead to self-sustaining and dignified lives.</p> LIGHTHOUSE HEALTH SERVICES <p>Lighthouse Community Health Services offers an array of comprehensive in-person and virtual treatment to all individuals who may be struggling with their mental health.</p> LIGHTHOUSE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT <p>Helping low-income individuals and families build wealth through the ownership of safe, and lasting affordable housing in a “Beloved Community” featuring wrap-around supportive services.</p> <p>More Information at <strong><a href="https://www.thelhcc.org/">https://www.thelhcc.org</a></strong></p> <br> <p> </p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3621</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[ffdbad82-b1c5-4af1-bda3-98679c94ba0e]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1382864454.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>There’s Never Been A Time Like This</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/theres-never-been-a-time-like-this</link>
      <description>There’s Never Been A Time Like This
 Interview with B1G1 Founder, Paul Dunn
 Paul Dunn is a 4-time TEDx speaker and is a Senior Fellow in one of the World’s Leading Think Tanks and consults to and mentors leading-edge businesses around the world.
 He was honored as a Social Innovation Fellow in his new home of Singapore; something he shares with film-star and philanthropist Jet Li and Walmart Chairman, Rob Walton.
 He was one of the first 10 people in Hewlett Packard in Australia. He then created one of Australia’s first computer companies and then The Results Corporation where he helped develop and grow 23,000 small and medium scale business enterprises.
 His programs are used by an estimated 226,000 companies around the world and he continues to push the boundaries. He featured in Forbes Magazine alongside Sir Richard Branson in a global piece on ‘disrupters’ in business.
 He is the co-founder of Accountants for Good and B1G1: Business for Good, the Global Giving Initiative that’s already enabled businesses to create over 220 Million giving impacts globally.
 For more information go to https://www.b1g1.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2021 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/6f725e46-b329-11eb-9f0f-5f6471fe0ddf/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with B1G1 Founder, Paul Dunn</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>There’s Never Been A Time Like This
 Interview with B1G1 Founder, Paul Dunn
 Paul Dunn is a 4-time TEDx speaker and is a Senior Fellow in one of the World’s Leading Think Tanks and consults to and mentors leading-edge businesses around the world.
 He was honored as a Social Innovation Fellow in his new home of Singapore; something he shares with film-star and philanthropist Jet Li and Walmart Chairman, Rob Walton.
 He was one of the first 10 people in Hewlett Packard in Australia. He then created one of Australia’s first computer companies and then The Results Corporation where he helped develop and grow 23,000 small and medium scale business enterprises.
 His programs are used by an estimated 226,000 companies around the world and he continues to push the boundaries. He featured in Forbes Magazine alongside Sir Richard Branson in a global piece on ‘disrupters’ in business.
 He is the co-founder of Accountants for Good and B1G1: Business for Good, the Global Giving Initiative that’s already enabled businesses to create over 220 Million giving impacts globally.
 For more information go to https://www.b1g1.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>There’s Never Been A Time Like This</strong></h1> <h1><strong>Interview with B1G1 Founder, Paul Dunn</strong></h1> <p><strong>Paul Dunn</strong> is a 4-time TEDx speaker and is a Senior Fellow in one of the World’s Leading Think Tanks and consults to and mentors leading-edge businesses around the world.</p> <p>He was honored as a Social Innovation Fellow in his new home of Singapore; something he shares with film-star and philanthropist Jet Li and Walmart Chairman, Rob Walton.</p> <p>He was one of the first 10 people in Hewlett Packard in Australia. He then created one of Australia’s first computer companies and then The Results Corporation where he helped develop and grow 23,000 small and medium scale business enterprises.</p> <p>His programs are used by an estimated 226,000 companies around the world and he continues to push the boundaries. He featured in Forbes Magazine alongside Sir Richard Branson in a global piece on ‘disrupters’ in business.</p> <p>He is the co-founder of Accountants for Good and B1G1: Business for Good, the Global Giving Initiative that’s already enabled businesses to create over 220 Million giving impacts globally.</p> <p>For more information go to <strong><a href="https://www.b1g1.org/">https://www.b1g1.org</a></strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3485</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[1bb8cde0-ca29-4676-b5bc-16c8dc05a4f0]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6421128445.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why Your Authenticity Is Needed In The World Now More Than Ever</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/why-your-authenticity-is-needed-in-the-world-now-more-than-ever</link>
      <description>Why Your Authenticity Is Needed In The World Now More Than Ever
 Interview with Sandra Dee Robinson
  
 True authenticity as a leader takes courage, but only initially.  Once achieved the results show an exponential increase. Decision-making is more clear. For those who feel a higher calling ( not only clergy) remembering the authentic self provides an ROI that sometimes cannot even be measured.  Peace of mind and a stronger sense of self in your Design can magnetize others to you and your purpose. There are three things that create the environment for this to happen: Your CORE, your actions, and your language. Let's take a look at what the alignment of these can create in the world that you experience.
 Sandra Dee Robinson’s mission is to help move people from where they are, to where they are Designed to be. She is a known television actress (former soap opera star), author, international speaker, TV and radio host, and a trusted advisor to gifted leaders and influencers who feel pulled to create an impact in the world.
 Sandra Dee founded Charisma on Camera Performance Coaching in 2010 and Horsepowered Consulting featuring her exclusive equine-assisted coaching retreats, in 2018.    She is master certified in NLP, Hypnosis, Speaker Stage mastery as well as trained in Natural Lifemanship, EAGALA, and is a Certified Success and Soul Business Coach.  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2021 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/6f8e200e-b329-11eb-9f0f-bb693da037f2/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Sandra Dee Robinson</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Why Your Authenticity Is Needed In The World Now More Than Ever
 Interview with Sandra Dee Robinson
  
 True authenticity as a leader takes courage, but only initially.  Once achieved the results show an exponential increase. Decision-making is more clear. For those who feel a higher calling ( not only clergy) remembering the authentic self provides an ROI that sometimes cannot even be measured.  Peace of mind and a stronger sense of self in your Design can magnetize others to you and your purpose. There are three things that create the environment for this to happen: Your CORE, your actions, and your language. Let's take a look at what the alignment of these can create in the world that you experience.
 Sandra Dee Robinson’s mission is to help move people from where they are, to where they are Designed to be. She is a known television actress (former soap opera star), author, international speaker, TV and radio host, and a trusted advisor to gifted leaders and influencers who feel pulled to create an impact in the world.
 Sandra Dee founded Charisma on Camera Performance Coaching in 2010 and Horsepowered Consulting featuring her exclusive equine-assisted coaching retreats, in 2018.    She is master certified in NLP, Hypnosis, Speaker Stage mastery as well as trained in Natural Lifemanship, EAGALA, and is a Certified Success and Soul Business Coach.  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Why Your Authenticity Is Needed In The World Now More Than Ever</h1> <h1>Interview with Sandra Dee Robinson</h1> <p> </p> <p>True authenticity as a leader takes courage, but only initially.  Once achieved the results show an exponential increase. Decision-making is more clear. For those who feel a higher calling ( not only clergy) remembering the authentic self provides an ROI that sometimes cannot even be measured.  Peace of mind and a stronger sense of self in your Design can magnetize others to you and your purpose. There are three things that create the environment for this to happen: Your CORE, your actions, and your language. Let's take a look at what the alignment of these can create in the world that you experience.</p> <p><strong>Sandra Dee Robinson’s</strong> mission is to help move people from where they are, to where they are Designed to be. She is a known television actress (former soap opera star), author, international speaker, TV and radio host, and a trusted advisor to gifted leaders and influencers who feel pulled to create an impact in the world.</p> Sandra Dee founded Charisma on Camera Performance Coaching in 2010 and Horsepowered Consulting featuring her exclusive equine-assisted coaching retreats, in 2018.    She is master certified in NLP, Hypnosis, Speaker Stage mastery as well as trained in Natural Lifemanship, EAGALA, and is a Certified Success and Soul Business Coach.  <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3236</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[38125262-79c2-4638-8eec-8fabfa1abdab]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4349098683.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Dysfunctional Nonprofit Boards Can Ruin an Organization</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/dysfunctional-nonprofit-boards-can-ruin-an-organization</link>
      <description>Dysfunctional Nonprofit Boards Can Ruin an Organization, These Recruiting Principles Offer a Solution
 Interview with Jim Mueller
  
 The complexities and challenges of sustaining a nonprofit far exceed those faced by similar-sized for-profit entities. Board members are called upon to be voices in their communities, to promote the importance of their cause, and to attract a band of true believers so that their nonprofits have the best opportunity to have the greatest impact for the most people. Having the wrong people end up on a nonprofit board can spell disaster for the organization. My message revolves around seven principles that nonprofits can use to recruit and sustain highly effective boards - and I aim to provide a roadmap for leaders to get there.
 JAMES MUELLER is the president of James Mueller &amp; Associates LLC (JMA), a national consulting firm that provides services in the areas of organizational development, governance, and philanthropy. His new book, Onboarding Champions: The Seven Recruiting Principles of Highly Effective Nonprofit Boards (February 23, 2021) is filled with intelligent and practical advice interwoven with a lifetime of stories about working with nonprofit boards.
 Mueller’s work helping nonprofits advance their missions has earned him national recognition. He has worked with nonprofit board members ranging from the highest positions of success and prominence to local communities and neighborhoods, where good people with big hearts ensure the health and wellbeing of their nonprofits.
 He has an undergraduate degree from Cornell University and spent the first ten years of his career at Cornell, followed by executive positions at Northwestern University, Advocate Healthcare, Lake Forest Graduate School of Management, and Goodwill Industries.
 More information at https://jmuellerassociates.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2021 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/6fa8495c-b329-11eb-9f0f-ef55d02c74b9/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>These Recruiting Principles Offer a Solution</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Dysfunctional Nonprofit Boards Can Ruin an Organization, These Recruiting Principles Offer a Solution
 Interview with Jim Mueller
  
 The complexities and challenges of sustaining a nonprofit far exceed those faced by similar-sized for-profit entities. Board members are called upon to be voices in their communities, to promote the importance of their cause, and to attract a band of true believers so that their nonprofits have the best opportunity to have the greatest impact for the most people. Having the wrong people end up on a nonprofit board can spell disaster for the organization. My message revolves around seven principles that nonprofits can use to recruit and sustain highly effective boards - and I aim to provide a roadmap for leaders to get there.
 JAMES MUELLER is the president of James Mueller &amp; Associates LLC (JMA), a national consulting firm that provides services in the areas of organizational development, governance, and philanthropy. His new book, Onboarding Champions: The Seven Recruiting Principles of Highly Effective Nonprofit Boards (February 23, 2021) is filled with intelligent and practical advice interwoven with a lifetime of stories about working with nonprofit boards.
 Mueller’s work helping nonprofits advance their missions has earned him national recognition. He has worked with nonprofit board members ranging from the highest positions of success and prominence to local communities and neighborhoods, where good people with big hearts ensure the health and wellbeing of their nonprofits.
 He has an undergraduate degree from Cornell University and spent the first ten years of his career at Cornell, followed by executive positions at Northwestern University, Advocate Healthcare, Lake Forest Graduate School of Management, and Goodwill Industries.
 More information at https://jmuellerassociates.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Dysfunctional Nonprofit Boards Can Ruin an Organization, These Recruiting Principles Offer a Solution</h1> <h1>Interview with Jim Mueller</h1> <p> </p> <p>The complexities and challenges of sustaining a nonprofit far exceed those faced by similar-sized for-profit entities. Board members are called upon to be voices in their communities, to promote the importance of their cause, and to attract a band of true believers so that their nonprofits have the best opportunity to have the greatest impact for the most people. Having the wrong people end up on a nonprofit board can spell disaster for the organization. My message revolves around seven principles that nonprofits can use to recruit and sustain highly effective boards - and I aim to provide a roadmap for leaders to get there.</p> <p><strong>JAMES MUELLER</strong> is the president of James Mueller &amp; Associates LLC (JMA), a national consulting firm that provides services in the areas of organizational development, governance, and philanthropy. His new book, Onboarding Champions: The Seven Recruiting Principles of Highly Effective Nonprofit Boards (February 23, 2021) is filled with intelligent and practical advice interwoven with a lifetime of stories about working with nonprofit boards.</p> <p>Mueller’s work helping nonprofits advance their missions has earned him national recognition. He has worked with nonprofit board members ranging from the highest positions of success and prominence to local communities and neighborhoods, where good people with big hearts ensure the health and wellbeing of their nonprofits.</p> <p>He has an undergraduate degree from Cornell University and spent the first ten years of his career at Cornell, followed by executive positions at Northwestern University, Advocate Healthcare, Lake Forest Graduate School of Management, and Goodwill Industries.</p> <p>More information at <strong><a href="https://jmuellerassociates.com/">https://jmuellerassociates.com/</a></strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3565</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[c2ab2635-d466-4aa8-ac37-495dff99f736]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9331243911.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How Nonprofit Organizations Can Grow</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-nonprofit-organizations-can-grow</link>
      <description>How Nonprofit Organizations Can Grow Interview with Jennifer Katrulya
 Jennifer Katrulya is a Partner at Citrin Cooperman and is considered a pioneer of the outsourced/virtual CFO, advisory, and accounting services space. She has spent the last 20+ years helping clients create and execute the strategic and operational plans needed to scale quickly, secure funding, provide critical reporting and communications to company stakeholders, increase market share, and position for a successful exit. Jennifer helps companies leverage Citrin Cooperman’s rapidly growing BPO services group of exceptional controllers, bookkeepers, and technology specialists. The team at Citrin Cooperman takes on the day-to-day accounting functions for clients, allowing them to focus on growing the company. Jennifer has often been called a “power connector,” based on her proven track record of bringing the right people and companies together to help drive business growth and success, both in specific business deals and in the formation of winning strategic alliances. Her experience ranges from bringing early-stage companies and funding sources together, to connecting C-Level executives in Fortune 500 companies.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2021 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/6fbc3516-b329-11eb-9f0f-4bb590749542/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Jennifer Katrulya</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How Nonprofit Organizations Can Grow Interview with Jennifer Katrulya
 Jennifer Katrulya is a Partner at Citrin Cooperman and is considered a pioneer of the outsourced/virtual CFO, advisory, and accounting services space. She has spent the last 20+ years helping clients create and execute the strategic and operational plans needed to scale quickly, secure funding, provide critical reporting and communications to company stakeholders, increase market share, and position for a successful exit. Jennifer helps companies leverage Citrin Cooperman’s rapidly growing BPO services group of exceptional controllers, bookkeepers, and technology specialists. The team at Citrin Cooperman takes on the day-to-day accounting functions for clients, allowing them to focus on growing the company. Jennifer has often been called a “power connector,” based on her proven track record of bringing the right people and companies together to help drive business growth and success, both in specific business deals and in the formation of winning strategic alliances. Her experience ranges from bringing early-stage companies and funding sources together, to connecting C-Level executives in Fortune 500 companies.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>How Nonprofit Organizations Can Grow<br> Interview with Jennifer Katrulya</strong></h1> <p><strong>Jennifer Katrulya</strong> is a Partner at Citrin Cooperman and is considered a pioneer of the outsourced/virtual CFO, advisory, and accounting services space. She has spent the last 20+ years helping clients create and execute the strategic and operational plans needed to scale quickly, secure funding, provide critical reporting and communications to company stakeholders, increase market share, and position for a successful exit. Jennifer helps companies leverage Citrin Cooperman’s rapidly growing BPO services group of exceptional controllers, bookkeepers, and technology specialists. The team at Citrin Cooperman takes on the day-to-day accounting functions for clients, allowing them to focus on growing the company. Jennifer has often been called a “power connector,” based on her proven track record of bringing the right people and companies together to help drive business growth and success, both in specific business deals and in the formation of winning strategic alliances. Her experience ranges from bringing early-stage companies and funding sources together, to connecting C-Level executives in Fortune 500 companies.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3589</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[1b4dbbe1-995e-43bf-8b23-5666406562ff]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4722662887.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Why Behind Our Businesses</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-why-behind-our-businesses</link>
      <description>The Why Behind Our Businesseswith Vintro’s Founder Noor Sugrue

 Noor Sugrue, Founder of Vintro, combines her studies at The University of Chicago, studying Economics and Art History, with her role in leading her first business venture.
 Growing up in an entrepreneurial family, she was always encouraged to go the extra mile and achieve success in whatever she was doing. It is an ethos that has remained with her throughout her education and, more recently, in the creation of Vintro.
 In 2018, while Noor was still at school, she came up with the original concept for Vintro after watching Shark Tank on TV and realizing how much it takes to get a business idea in front of the right people. Noor recognized that even the best business ideas need support to grow, and too many entrepreneurs and creators don’t know the right person or can’t get the right advice. Vintro changes that.
 This democratization of access to the influential spurred her to her mission, to let no idea get left behind, and the creation of Vintro for Volunteers within the core Vintro offering. This allows those without the financial resources to access Vintro leaders by using charitable service hours to purchase decision-makers.
 There is a way to do business and to do good. In today’s world, it is a must that businesses are built with soul and purpose and with a mission.
 For more information about Vintro go to https://beta.myvintro.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2021 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/6fd5312e-b329-11eb-9f0f-b3a3d3366ded/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Vintro’s Founder  Noor Sugrue</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Why Behind Our Businesseswith Vintro’s Founder Noor Sugrue

 Noor Sugrue, Founder of Vintro, combines her studies at The University of Chicago, studying Economics and Art History, with her role in leading her first business venture.
 Growing up in an entrepreneurial family, she was always encouraged to go the extra mile and achieve success in whatever she was doing. It is an ethos that has remained with her throughout her education and, more recently, in the creation of Vintro.
 In 2018, while Noor was still at school, she came up with the original concept for Vintro after watching Shark Tank on TV and realizing how much it takes to get a business idea in front of the right people. Noor recognized that even the best business ideas need support to grow, and too many entrepreneurs and creators don’t know the right person or can’t get the right advice. Vintro changes that.
 This democratization of access to the influential spurred her to her mission, to let no idea get left behind, and the creation of Vintro for Volunteers within the core Vintro offering. This allows those without the financial resources to access Vintro leaders by using charitable service hours to purchase decision-makers.
 There is a way to do business and to do good. In today’s world, it is a must that businesses are built with soul and purpose and with a mission.
 For more information about Vintro go to https://beta.myvintro.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1> <strong>The Why Behind Our Businesses<br></strong><strong>with Vintro’s Founder<br></strong> <strong>Noor Sugrue</strong>
</h1> <p><strong>Noor Sugrue</strong>, Founder of Vintro, combines her studies at The University of Chicago, studying Economics and Art History, with her role in leading her first business venture.</p> <p>Growing up in an entrepreneurial family, she was always encouraged to go the extra mile and achieve success in whatever she was doing. It is an ethos that has remained with her throughout her education and, more recently, in the creation of Vintro.</p> <p>In 2018, while Noor was still at school, she came up with the original concept for Vintro after watching Shark Tank on TV and realizing how much it takes to get a business idea in front of the right people. Noor recognized that even the best business ideas need support to grow, and too many entrepreneurs and creators don’t know the right person or can’t get the right advice. Vintro changes that.</p> <p>This democratization of access to the influential spurred her to her mission, to let no idea get left behind, and the creation of Vintro for Volunteers within the core Vintro offering. This allows those without the financial resources to access Vintro leaders by using charitable service hours to purchase decision-makers.</p> <p>There is a way to do business and to do good. In today’s world, it is a must that businesses are built with soul and purpose and with a mission.</p> <p>For more information about Vintro go to <strong><a href="https://beta.myvintro.com/">https://beta.myvintro.com/</a></strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3504</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[15183456-dcb0-4a46-a605-9d4ffa4dbb06]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2728722158.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Your Relationship with Money: Will I Win or Lose?</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/your-relationship-with-money-will-i-win-or-lose</link>
      <description>Your Relationship with Money: Will I Win or Lose? Interview with Richard Hansen
 Money and your relationship with it will ultimately dictate how you live, who you help, and how much you receive. If you view money as a scarce resource, it is! If you view money as an abundant resource, it is!
 We are taught that it is better to give than to receive, so are we giving enough? Are we being too selfish with what we have? As leaders we have to be the BIGGEST givers, we have to be the BIGGEST examples of success, and we have to be the BIGGEST advocates for a change!
 Change your mindset about money, and you'll change your mindset about money.
 Richard Hansen was born into poverty, chose poverty by becoming a teenage father, then decided to make a move and join the Middle Class and now onto Wealthy America!
 Hansen spent 11 years working for a Fortune 100 Bank and in 2016 became an entrepreneur and started his own financial firm. Married to his high school sweetheart, father of two amazing teenagers, and looking to serve the Lord each and every day!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2021 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/6fedd9ea-b329-11eb-9f0f-cf6396274b97/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Richard Hansen</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Your Relationship with Money: Will I Win or Lose? Interview with Richard Hansen
 Money and your relationship with it will ultimately dictate how you live, who you help, and how much you receive. If you view money as a scarce resource, it is! If you view money as an abundant resource, it is!
 We are taught that it is better to give than to receive, so are we giving enough? Are we being too selfish with what we have? As leaders we have to be the BIGGEST givers, we have to be the BIGGEST examples of success, and we have to be the BIGGEST advocates for a change!
 Change your mindset about money, and you'll change your mindset about money.
 Richard Hansen was born into poverty, chose poverty by becoming a teenage father, then decided to make a move and join the Middle Class and now onto Wealthy America!
 Hansen spent 11 years working for a Fortune 100 Bank and in 2016 became an entrepreneur and started his own financial firm. Married to his high school sweetheart, father of two amazing teenagers, and looking to serve the Lord each and every day!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Your Relationship with Money: Will I Win or Lose? Interview with Richard Hansen</strong></h1> <p>Money and your relationship with it will ultimately dictate how you live, who you help, and how much you receive.<br> If you view money as a scarce resource, it is! If you view money as an abundant resource, it is!</p> <p>We are taught that it is better to give than to receive, so are we giving enough? Are we being too selfish with what we have? As leaders we have to be the BIGGEST givers, we have to be the BIGGEST examples of success, and we have to be the BIGGEST advocates for a change!</p> <p>Change your mindset about money, and you'll change your mindset about money.</p> <p><strong>Richard Hansen</strong> was born into poverty, chose poverty by becoming a teenage father, then decided to make a move and join the Middle Class and now onto Wealthy America!</p> <p>Hansen spent 11 years working for a Fortune 100 Bank and in 2016 became an entrepreneur and started his own financial firm.<br> Married to his high school sweetheart, father of two amazing teenagers, and looking to serve the Lord each and every day!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3402</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[fd98f2d0-c656-415a-8f73-1ebc428f8071]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9607885755.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Rock Against Trafficking: Saving Lives Through the Power of Music</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/rock-against-trafficking-saving-lives-through-the-power-of-music</link>
      <description>Rock Against Trafficking: Saving Lives Through the Power of Music with Gary Miller
 Rock Against Trafficking is a non-profit 501c3 charity driven by seasoned music industry veterans who are taking action to end human trafficking on a global scale. With growing awareness and support from the media and public officials, we continue to see an increase in anti-trafficking task force initiatives worldwide — many businesses are providing training to their employees to help identify traffickers and victims in their tracks.
 With over 600 rescues so far this year, our network of affiliates is hard at work but we need your help!
 Gary Miller is a British Pop and Rock music producer, songwriter, composer, and guitarist. Gary worked for the London production house Stock Aitken Waterman as producer and songwriter and was later part of the Metrophonic team. He is best known for his work with David Bowie for the album Heathen, Katy Perry, Donna Summer, Lionel Richie, Kylie Minogue, Bananarama, and Simply Red.
 Miller started his music career during the 1980s as a guitarist, touring with Sir Elton John and Nik Kershaw all across Europe and the US. In 1989, Miller was Musical Director for Deon Estus on George Michael's Faith Tour. During his long-spanning career, he was also MD and guitarist for the 30-year reunion tour for British Pop duo Bros, twin brothers Matt and Luke Goss, in 2017. The Bros Live 2017 Tour filled The O2 arena in London two nights in a row.
 Miller additionally founded the Rock Against Trafficking foundation which records and releases album projects to raise money and awareness to fight human trafficking. The first Rock Against Trafficking album "Set Them Free", which was produced by Miller, features Police and Sting covers performed by various well-known artists, such as the rock band Journey, Heart, Carlos Santana, Slash, Julian Lennon, Ellis Hall, and En Vogue.
 Most recently Gary has achieved a #1 record across several UK charts with Rozalla’s “I Feel It Slipping Away”.
 More about Rock Against Trafficking at https://rockagainsttrafficking.org 
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2021 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/70071518-b329-11eb-9f0f-9b0ad15569cd/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Gary Miller</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Rock Against Trafficking: Saving Lives Through the Power of Music with Gary Miller
 Rock Against Trafficking is a non-profit 501c3 charity driven by seasoned music industry veterans who are taking action to end human trafficking on a global scale. With growing awareness and support from the media and public officials, we continue to see an increase in anti-trafficking task force initiatives worldwide — many businesses are providing training to their employees to help identify traffickers and victims in their tracks.
 With over 600 rescues so far this year, our network of affiliates is hard at work but we need your help!
 Gary Miller is a British Pop and Rock music producer, songwriter, composer, and guitarist. Gary worked for the London production house Stock Aitken Waterman as producer and songwriter and was later part of the Metrophonic team. He is best known for his work with David Bowie for the album Heathen, Katy Perry, Donna Summer, Lionel Richie, Kylie Minogue, Bananarama, and Simply Red.
 Miller started his music career during the 1980s as a guitarist, touring with Sir Elton John and Nik Kershaw all across Europe and the US. In 1989, Miller was Musical Director for Deon Estus on George Michael's Faith Tour. During his long-spanning career, he was also MD and guitarist for the 30-year reunion tour for British Pop duo Bros, twin brothers Matt and Luke Goss, in 2017. The Bros Live 2017 Tour filled The O2 arena in London two nights in a row.
 Miller additionally founded the Rock Against Trafficking foundation which records and releases album projects to raise money and awareness to fight human trafficking. The first Rock Against Trafficking album "Set Them Free", which was produced by Miller, features Police and Sting covers performed by various well-known artists, such as the rock band Journey, Heart, Carlos Santana, Slash, Julian Lennon, Ellis Hall, and En Vogue.
 Most recently Gary has achieved a #1 record across several UK charts with Rozalla’s “I Feel It Slipping Away”.
 More about Rock Against Trafficking at https://rockagainsttrafficking.org 
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Rock Against Trafficking: Saving Lives Through the Power of Music with Gary Miller</strong></h1> <p><strong>Rock Against Trafficking</strong> is a non-profit 501c3 charity driven by seasoned music industry veterans who are taking action to end human trafficking on a global scale. With growing awareness and support from the media and public officials, we continue to see an increase in anti-trafficking task force initiatives worldwide — many businesses are providing training to their employees to help identify traffickers and victims in their tracks.</p> <p>With over 600 rescues so far this year, our network of affiliates is hard at work but we need your help!</p> <p><strong>Gary Miller</strong> is a British Pop and Rock music producer, songwriter, composer, and guitarist. Gary worked for the London production house Stock Aitken Waterman as producer and songwriter and was later part of the Metrophonic team. He is best known for his work with David Bowie for the album Heathen, Katy Perry, Donna Summer, Lionel Richie, Kylie Minogue, Bananarama, and Simply Red.</p> <p>Miller started his music career during the 1980s as a guitarist, touring with Sir Elton John and Nik Kershaw all across Europe and the US. In 1989, Miller was Musical Director for Deon Estus on George Michael's Faith Tour. During his long-spanning career, he was also MD and guitarist for the 30-year reunion tour for British Pop duo Bros, twin brothers Matt and Luke Goss, in 2017. The Bros Live 2017 Tour filled The O2 arena in London two nights in a row.</p> <p>Miller additionally founded the Rock Against Trafficking foundation which records and releases album projects to raise money and awareness to fight human trafficking. The first Rock Against Trafficking album "Set Them Free", which was produced by Miller, features Police and Sting covers performed by various well-known artists, such as the rock band Journey, Heart, Carlos Santana, Slash, Julian Lennon, Ellis Hall, and En Vogue.</p> <p>Most recently Gary has achieved a #1 record across several UK charts with Rozalla’s “I Feel It Slipping Away”.</p> <p>More about Rock Against Trafficking at <strong><a href="https://rockagainsttrafficking.org/">https://rockagainsttrafficking.org </a></strong></p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3467</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[08e0bafa-69e0-4080-8aca-dcf4b8a1f6bf]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1231025880.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Passionate Performance: Striving to Change the World</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/passionate-performance-striving-to-change-the-world</link>
      <description>Passionate Performance: Striving to Change the World with Mrs. Virginia American, Dhomonique Murphy

 Passionate Performance: Striving to Change the World with Mrs. Virginia American, Dhomonique Murphy
 Did you know that 1 in 4 children in America will grow up never learning how to read? Readers2Leaders is committed to bringing hope, opportunity, and education to the front doorstep of every child we touch.
 Dhomonique Murphy is a 3x Emmy Award-Winning Television Journalist and the reigning Mrs. Virginia American Dhomonique has appeared on stages across the nation and has been featured on The Steve Harvey Show, FOX, ABC, NBC, HSN, CBS , and countless radio, print, and local television platforms.
 Dhomonique is also the founder of a 501(c)(3) nonprofit called Readers2Leaders, Inc. The Yellow Box Project is on a mission to put thousands of books by way of e-reader into the hands of children in underserved communities across the nation. (TheYellowBox.org)
 Dhomonique is a leading industry expert in the field of personal and professional development. She is the owner and President of The Right Method (TheRightMethod.com). Dhomonique and a television crew traveled the nation in 2020 to interview some of theworld’s most notable business icons and motivators. She conducted the interviews inside the living rooms of these individuals to learn their secrets of success. Dhomonique is now working to bring this to a national platform. She has been endorsed by the co-founder of Constant Contact Alec Stern, Shark Tank’s Kevin Harrington, New York Times Best Selling Author Sharon Lechter, co-founder of Priceline.com Jeff Hoffman, famed motivational speaker Brain Tracy, and many others.
 Dhomonique is a published author of three books: A) RESET: Attitude is Everything, B) The Right Method Cookbook, and a contributing author on the bestselling book: 1Habit for Entrepreneurial Success alongside Les Brown.
 Dhomonique and her husband Frank reside in northern Virginia (Arlington) with their two young sons Christian (2) and Christopher (1).
 Did you know that 1 in 4 children in America will grow up never learning how to read? Read that statistic again. That’s 25% of children. WriteExpress Corporation. “Literacy Statistics.“ Begin to Read. Accessed April 16, 2014. According to the Reading Foundation, many academic and social issues can arise for children who are poor readers. We believe that every child has the potential to succeed in life and opportunities to read and learn should not be limited based on economic status. Readers2Leaders is committed to bringing hope, opportunity, and education to the front doorstep of every child we touch.
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2021 18:00:43 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/701e27d0-b329-11eb-9f0f-f3071acaf68e/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Mrs. Virginia American, Dhomonique Murphy</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Passionate Performance: Striving to Change the World with Mrs. Virginia American, Dhomonique Murphy

 Passionate Performance: Striving to Change the World with Mrs. Virginia American, Dhomonique Murphy
 Did you know that 1 in 4 children in America will grow up never learning how to read? Readers2Leaders is committed to bringing hope, opportunity, and education to the front doorstep of every child we touch.
 Dhomonique Murphy is a 3x Emmy Award-Winning Television Journalist and the reigning Mrs. Virginia American Dhomonique has appeared on stages across the nation and has been featured on The Steve Harvey Show, FOX, ABC, NBC, HSN, CBS , and countless radio, print, and local television platforms.
 Dhomonique is also the founder of a 501(c)(3) nonprofit called Readers2Leaders, Inc. The Yellow Box Project is on a mission to put thousands of books by way of e-reader into the hands of children in underserved communities across the nation. (TheYellowBox.org)
 Dhomonique is a leading industry expert in the field of personal and professional development. She is the owner and President of The Right Method (TheRightMethod.com). Dhomonique and a television crew traveled the nation in 2020 to interview some of theworld’s most notable business icons and motivators. She conducted the interviews inside the living rooms of these individuals to learn their secrets of success. Dhomonique is now working to bring this to a national platform. She has been endorsed by the co-founder of Constant Contact Alec Stern, Shark Tank’s Kevin Harrington, New York Times Best Selling Author Sharon Lechter, co-founder of Priceline.com Jeff Hoffman, famed motivational speaker Brain Tracy, and many others.
 Dhomonique is a published author of three books: A) RESET: Attitude is Everything, B) The Right Method Cookbook, and a contributing author on the bestselling book: 1Habit for Entrepreneurial Success alongside Les Brown.
 Dhomonique and her husband Frank reside in northern Virginia (Arlington) with their two young sons Christian (2) and Christopher (1).
 Did you know that 1 in 4 children in America will grow up never learning how to read? Read that statistic again. That’s 25% of children. WriteExpress Corporation. “Literacy Statistics.“ Begin to Read. Accessed April 16, 2014. According to the Reading Foundation, many academic and social issues can arise for children who are poor readers. We believe that every child has the potential to succeed in life and opportunities to read and learn should not be limited based on economic status. Readers2Leaders is committed to bringing hope, opportunity, and education to the front doorstep of every child we touch.
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1> <strong>Passionate Performance: Striving to Change the World with Mrs. Virginia American, Dhomonique Murphy</strong>
</h1> <p>Passionate Performance: Striving to Change the World with Mrs. Virginia American, Dhomonique Murphy</p> <p>Did you know that 1 in 4 children in America will grow up never learning how to read? Readers2Leaders is committed to bringing hope, opportunity, and education to the front doorstep of every child we touch.</p> <p><strong>Dhomonique Murphy</strong> is a 3x Emmy Award-Winning Television Journalist and the reigning Mrs. Virginia American Dhomonique has appeared on stages across the nation and has been featured on The Steve Harvey Show, FOX, ABC, NBC, HSN, CBS , and countless radio, print, and local television platforms.</p> <p>Dhomonique is also the founder of a 501(c)(3) nonprofit called Readers2Leaders, Inc. The Yellow Box Project is on a mission to put thousands of books by way of e-reader into the hands of children in underserved communities across the nation. (TheYellowBox.org)</p> <p>Dhomonique is a leading industry expert in the field of personal and professional development. She is the owner and President of The Right Method (TheRightMethod.com). Dhomonique and a television crew traveled the nation in 2020 to interview some of theworld’s most notable business icons and motivators. She conducted the interviews inside the living rooms of these individuals to learn their secrets of success. Dhomonique is now working to bring this to a national platform. She has been endorsed by the co-founder of Constant Contact Alec Stern, Shark Tank’s Kevin Harrington, New York Times Best Selling Author Sharon Lechter, co-founder of Priceline.com Jeff Hoffman, famed motivational speaker Brain Tracy, and many others.</p> <p>Dhomonique is a published author of three books: A) <em>RESET: Attitude is Everything</em>, B) <em>The Right Method Cookbook, </em>and a contributing author on the bestselling book: <em>1Habit for Entrepreneurial Success</em> alongside Les Brown.</p> <p>Dhomonique and her husband Frank reside in northern Virginia (Arlington) with their two young sons Christian (2) and Christopher (1).</p> <p>Did you know that 1 in 4 children in America will grow up never learning how to read? Read that statistic again. That’s 25% of children. WriteExpress Corporation. “Literacy Statistics.“ Begin to Read. Accessed April 16, 2014. According to the Reading Foundation, many academic and social issues can arise for children who are poor readers. We believe that every child has the potential to succeed in life and opportunities to read and learn should not be limited based on economic status. Readers2Leaders is committed to bringing hope, opportunity, and education to the front doorstep of every child we touch.</p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3365</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[8cb434af-b6f6-4545-b578-01109384e961]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8775962508.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Dream Big and Then Make It Happen with Jim Hardwick</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/dream-big-and-then-make-it-happen-with-jim-hardwick</link>
      <description>Dream Big and Then Make It Happen with Jim Hardwick
 Jim Hardwick has been in the healthcare industry for many years leading sales teams. He has worked for companies in hospital distribution, medical devices, diagnostics tests, and software solutions and is currently a Sales Consultant. “The spirit and energy of the African people have opened my eyes to how important our global community is. The opportunity to help free people of dental pain has become my driving passion."
 Starting a nonprofit is hard work and many hours that others never see. However, if your passion and heart are in the right place the experience is both rewarding and humbling. Stay focused when times are hard. Having the heart to change the world can move mountains. Because of a dream, we were able to impact many lives on the other side of the world.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2021 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/703d1082-b329-11eb-9f0f-8bab82dde465/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Dental Nonprofit work in Kenya</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Dream Big and Then Make It Happen with Jim Hardwick
 Jim Hardwick has been in the healthcare industry for many years leading sales teams. He has worked for companies in hospital distribution, medical devices, diagnostics tests, and software solutions and is currently a Sales Consultant. “The spirit and energy of the African people have opened my eyes to how important our global community is. The opportunity to help free people of dental pain has become my driving passion."
 Starting a nonprofit is hard work and many hours that others never see. However, if your passion and heart are in the right place the experience is both rewarding and humbling. Stay focused when times are hard. Having the heart to change the world can move mountains. Because of a dream, we were able to impact many lives on the other side of the world.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Dream Big and Then Make It Happen with Jim Hardwick</strong></h1> <p><strong>Jim Hardwick</strong> has been in the healthcare industry for many years leading sales teams. He has worked for companies in hospital distribution, medical devices, diagnostics tests, and software solutions and is currently a Sales Consultant. “The spirit and energy of the African people have opened my eyes to how important our global community is. The opportunity to help free people of dental pain has become my driving passion."</p> <p>Starting a nonprofit is hard work and many hours that others never see. However, if your passion and heart are in the right place the experience is both rewarding and humbling. Stay focused when times are hard. Having the heart to change the world can move mountains. Because of a dream, we were able to impact many lives on the other side of the world.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3520</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[aa168bf7-c60c-4e21-b020-0beaf3eb22e8]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8531841826.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>New, Collaborative Approaches to Combatting Human Trafficking</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/new-collaborative-approaches-to-combatting-human-trafficking</link>
      <description>New, Collaborative Approaches to Combatting Human Trafficking with Mitzi Perdue

 Mitzi Perdue is a businesswoman, author, and Founder of Win This Fight, Stop Human Trafficking Now. She holds a BA degree with honors from Harvard University and a Masters from George Washington University. She’s s a past president of the 40,000 member American Agri-Women and she was a U.S. Delegate to the United Nations Conference on Women in Nairobi.
 As a columnist for 22 years, her column, THE ENVIRONMENT AND YOU, was the most widely syndicated environmental columnist in the US.
 She is the founder and president of “Win This Fight! Stop Human Trafficking Now” an organization that raises funds and awareness for other anti-trafficking initiatives.
 Mitzi presents a way that you can, at no cost, raise awareness about human trafficking while also raising funds.
 For more information go to http://www.WinThisFight.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2021 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/704edb5a-b329-11eb-9f0f-73136215fdab/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Mitzi Perdue</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>New, Collaborative Approaches to Combatting Human Trafficking with Mitzi Perdue

 Mitzi Perdue is a businesswoman, author, and Founder of Win This Fight, Stop Human Trafficking Now. She holds a BA degree with honors from Harvard University and a Masters from George Washington University. She’s s a past president of the 40,000 member American Agri-Women and she was a U.S. Delegate to the United Nations Conference on Women in Nairobi.
 As a columnist for 22 years, her column, THE ENVIRONMENT AND YOU, was the most widely syndicated environmental columnist in the US.
 She is the founder and president of “Win This Fight! Stop Human Trafficking Now” an organization that raises funds and awareness for other anti-trafficking initiatives.
 Mitzi presents a way that you can, at no cost, raise awareness about human trafficking while also raising funds.
 For more information go to http://www.WinThisFight.org
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1> <strong>New, Collaborative Approaches to Combatting Human Trafficking with Mitzi Perdue</strong>
</h1> <p><strong>Mitzi Perdue</strong> is a businesswoman, author, and Founder of Win This Fight, Stop Human Trafficking Now. She holds a BA degree with honors from Harvard University and a Masters from George Washington University. She’s s a past president of the 40,000 member American Agri-Women and she was a U.S. Delegate to the United Nations Conference on Women in Nairobi.</p> <p>As a columnist for 22 years, her column, THE ENVIRONMENT AND YOU, was the most widely syndicated environmental columnist in the US.</p> <p>She is the founder and president of “Win This Fight! Stop Human Trafficking Now” an organization that raises funds and awareness for other anti-trafficking initiatives.</p> <p>Mitzi presents a way that you can, at no cost, raise awareness about human trafficking while also raising funds.</p> <p>For more information go to <strong><a href="http://www.winthisfight.org/">http://www.WinThisFight.org</a></strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3543</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[9a0ae814-3bd3-496d-aa19-25bd4e533f30]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6328523461.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Viral Media Fundraising:  Growth Hacking That's Here to Stay</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/viral-media-fundraising-growth-hacking-thats-here-to-stay</link>
      <description>Viral Media Fundraising: Growth Hacking That's Here to Stay with Pete Winters

 Pete Winters is a 30-year veteran of the communications industry having started with print, innovating through cross media, digital media and his present specialty, viral media.  Pete focuses on helping nonprofits, causes and foundations increase their chances of going viral.
 Pete says:
 Many organizations have the potential to go viral, but not 1 in 100 know how.
  For an organization, the benefits of going viral are out of this world extraordinary.
  Campaigns that have gone viral leave clues.  Those clues can be turned into replicable strategies and tactics that organizations can use to increase their chances of getting there.
  This discussion will walk through the what, and the how, of going viral including suggestions of what Causes can do to assess their chances of potential success.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2021 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/706b51ea-b329-11eb-9f0f-97236e3db3a2/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>with Pete Winters</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Viral Media Fundraising: Growth Hacking That's Here to Stay with Pete Winters

 Pete Winters is a 30-year veteran of the communications industry having started with print, innovating through cross media, digital media and his present specialty, viral media.  Pete focuses on helping nonprofits, causes and foundations increase their chances of going viral.
 Pete says:
 Many organizations have the potential to go viral, but not 1 in 100 know how.
  For an organization, the benefits of going viral are out of this world extraordinary.
  Campaigns that have gone viral leave clues.  Those clues can be turned into replicable strategies and tactics that organizations can use to increase their chances of getting there.
  This discussion will walk through the what, and the how, of going viral including suggestions of what Causes can do to assess their chances of potential success.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>
<strong>Viral Media Fundraising:</strong><br> <strong>Growth Hacking That's Here to Stay with Pete Winters</strong>
</h1> <p><strong>Pete Winters</strong> is a 30-year veteran of the communications industry having started with print, innovating through cross media, digital media and his present specialty, viral media.  Pete focuses on helping nonprofits, causes and foundations increase their chances of going viral.</p> <p><em><strong>Pete says:</strong></em></p> <p>Many organizations have the potential to go viral, but not 1 in 100 know how.</p> <p><br> For an organization, the benefits of going viral are out of this world extraordinary.</p> <p><br> Campaigns that have gone viral leave clues.  Those clues can be turned into replicable strategies and tactics that organizations can use to increase their chances of getting there.</p> <p><br> This discussion will walk through the what, and the how, of going viral including suggestions of what Causes can do to assess their chances of potential success.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3631</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[c3def5a2-ff15-4e25-9dc7-bacb93bb5b11]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4682861920.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to Give $1 Million Per Year to Charity</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-to-give-1-million-per-year-to-charity</link>
      <description>How to Give $1 Million Per Year to Charity with Mike Skrypnek

 Mike Skrypnek is a business coach, international speaker and seven time bestselling author. Mike helps impact-minded, mid-career entrepreneur business owners who know they could do more, but aren't serving enough of their ideal clients to succeed and achieve the way they know they can. They know if only they could realize this growth, they could have the big impact they always desired while building a great business and enjoying a great life.
 His proprietary training teaches his Grow Get Give philosophy.
 Divining the true desire for impact within business leaders' intentions is key to understanding the path to giving. When you uncover passion to make a difference, it is possible to align those values with a Big Impact Goal that connects a business purpose with action. It is a bold step to choose giving in business over scarcity mindset and hoarding impulses. Mike will share his journey to find his own way to giving in the financial services industry, while learning from the successful business lkeaders he guided to realize their impact.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2021 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/708934bc-b329-11eb-9f0f-7f41c053f008/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Mike Skrypnek</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How to Give $1 Million Per Year to Charity with Mike Skrypnek

 Mike Skrypnek is a business coach, international speaker and seven time bestselling author. Mike helps impact-minded, mid-career entrepreneur business owners who know they could do more, but aren't serving enough of their ideal clients to succeed and achieve the way they know they can. They know if only they could realize this growth, they could have the big impact they always desired while building a great business and enjoying a great life.
 His proprietary training teaches his Grow Get Give philosophy.
 Divining the true desire for impact within business leaders' intentions is key to understanding the path to giving. When you uncover passion to make a difference, it is possible to align those values with a Big Impact Goal that connects a business purpose with action. It is a bold step to choose giving in business over scarcity mindset and hoarding impulses. Mike will share his journey to find his own way to giving in the financial services industry, while learning from the successful business lkeaders he guided to realize their impact.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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<strong>How to Give $1 Million Per Year to Charity</strong><br> <strong>with Mike Skrypnek</strong>
</h1> <p>Mike Skrypnek is a business coach, international speaker and seven time bestselling author. Mike helps impact-minded, mid-career entrepreneur business owners who know they could do more, but aren't serving enough of their ideal clients to succeed and achieve the way they know they can. They know if only they could realize this growth, they could have the big impact they always desired while building a great business and enjoying a great life.</p> <p>His proprietary training teaches his Grow Get Give philosophy.</p> <p>Divining the true desire for impact within business leaders' intentions is key to understanding the path to giving. When you uncover passion to make a difference, it is possible to align those values with a Big Impact Goal that connects a business purpose with action. It is a bold step to choose giving in business over scarcity mindset and hoarding impulses. Mike will share his journey to find his own way to giving in the financial services industry, while learning from the successful business lkeaders he guided to realize their impact.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3648</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Increasing Philanthropy with Planned Giving and Opportunity Zone Funds</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/increasing-philanthropy-with-planned-giving-and-opportunity-zone-funds</link>
      <description>Increasing Philanthropy with Planned Giving and Opportunity Zone Funds with Brion Crum

 Brion Crum is a Vice President, Investments, at Caliber Companies. His responsibilities include raising money for Caliber’s multiple real estate funds and helping accredited investors develop their wealth.
 Prior to Caliber, Brion was a financial advisor at Merrill Lynch and Synergy Investments, advising high-net-worth clients and business owners on strategies for asset protection, tax planning, and portfolio construction. Brion has become an expert and presenter on the Opportunity Zone program and how it creates an impact on the community.
 Brion has been on the founding advisory board of Eliances, an entrepreneurship community, and is a board member/advisor for a diverse group of organizations that have community impact and sustainability at their core.
 Brion obtained his BSBA in Finance and Aviation Management from Ohio State University. He is a registered representative with Caliber Funds, which is affiliated with Patrick Capital Markets, LLC – Member FINRA/SIPC1.
 Through fellow members of the Planned Giving Roundtable, we have enhanced the tax and investment benefits of charitable trust strategies for investors, business owners, and real estate owners by incorporating an Opportunity Zone Fund as an asset in certain charitable trusts. This can be a powerful tool for non-profit organizations to share with their donors who may be anticipating or have experienced a significant liquidity event.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2021 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/709c8990-b329-11eb-9f0f-0b4ba37e91c1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Brion Crum</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Increasing Philanthropy with Planned Giving and Opportunity Zone Funds with Brion Crum

 Brion Crum is a Vice President, Investments, at Caliber Companies. His responsibilities include raising money for Caliber’s multiple real estate funds and helping accredited investors develop their wealth.
 Prior to Caliber, Brion was a financial advisor at Merrill Lynch and Synergy Investments, advising high-net-worth clients and business owners on strategies for asset protection, tax planning, and portfolio construction. Brion has become an expert and presenter on the Opportunity Zone program and how it creates an impact on the community.
 Brion has been on the founding advisory board of Eliances, an entrepreneurship community, and is a board member/advisor for a diverse group of organizations that have community impact and sustainability at their core.
 Brion obtained his BSBA in Finance and Aviation Management from Ohio State University. He is a registered representative with Caliber Funds, which is affiliated with Patrick Capital Markets, LLC – Member FINRA/SIPC1.
 Through fellow members of the Planned Giving Roundtable, we have enhanced the tax and investment benefits of charitable trust strategies for investors, business owners, and real estate owners by incorporating an Opportunity Zone Fund as an asset in certain charitable trusts. This can be a powerful tool for non-profit organizations to share with their donors who may be anticipating or have experienced a significant liquidity event.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1> <strong>Increasing Philanthropy with Planned Giving and Opportunity Zone Funds with Brion Crum</strong>
</h1> <p><strong>Brion Crum</strong> is a Vice President, Investments, at Caliber Companies. His responsibilities include raising money for Caliber’s multiple real estate funds and helping accredited investors develop their wealth.</p> <p>Prior to Caliber, Brion was a financial advisor at Merrill Lynch and Synergy Investments, advising high-net-worth clients and business owners on strategies for asset protection, tax planning, and portfolio construction. Brion has become an expert and presenter on the Opportunity Zone program and how it creates an impact on the community.</p> <p>Brion has been on the founding advisory board of Eliances, an entrepreneurship community, and is a board member/advisor for a diverse group of organizations that have community impact and sustainability at their core.</p> <p>Brion obtained his BSBA in Finance and Aviation Management from Ohio State University. He is a registered representative with Caliber Funds, which is affiliated with Patrick Capital Markets, LLC – Member FINRA/SIPC1.</p> <p>Through fellow members of the Planned Giving Roundtable, we have enhanced the tax and investment benefits of charitable trust strategies for investors, business owners, and real estate owners by incorporating an Opportunity Zone Fund as an asset in certain charitable trusts. This can be a powerful tool for non-profit organizations to share with their donors who may be anticipating or have experienced a significant liquidity event.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3537</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Learning the Value of Human Alignment / Collaboration</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/learning-the-value-of-human-alignment-collaboration</link>
      <description>Powerful Collaborations with Stewart Levine
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Russell, here we are again. Week after week, we have amazing people. Yet today, this is a friend from years ago. I sent out an email asking people if they wanted to contribute to the magazine or be on the show. Immediately, Stewart Levine responded. How are things in Denver today, Russell?
 Russell Dennis: It’s a little cloudy, a little bit cooler than it has been. But we are in the fall season. All is well otherwise. Welcome, Stewart. Thank you for coming.
 Stewart Levine: My pleasure to be with you guys today. I will be landing in Denver early tomorrow morning and then driving up to Vail for some American Bar Association meetings. Interesting, because I have a new book called Becoming the Best Lawyer You Can Be: How to Maintain Physical, Emotional, Spiritual, and Mental Health. The American Bar Association, 27 authors, I curated it and edited it. I’m actually very excited about it.
 Hugh: Look at that. Let’s back up. I’m sure there is people watching who want to know who this guy is anyway. Why don’t you tell them, Stewart?
 Stewart: Thank you, Hugh. Here’s the short synopsis. I practiced law for about 10 years in a reasonably traditional number of contexts, starting off in the New Jersey Attorney General’s office. Then I got tired of fighting with people. And it was before the whole ADR, Alternative Dispute Resolution, movement came on board. So I decided to do a little career change. I spent six years inside of AT&amp;T as they were going through huge organizational change and transformation with major law firms as my clients, not in a legal sense, but in an account representative sense.
 On a parallel track, I started divorce meditation because I wanted to use the skills I had developed as a lawyer. I learned a lot about communication, about collaboration, about conflict resolution working with couples getting divorced because no one is in worse shape than that. Over time, I moved that work over into working with organizations, teens, organizational transformational cultural change work, individual coaching. For the last 30 years, that essentially is what I have been doing.
 The last 10 years, I have learned a ton of teaching programs and all the soft skills, relationship skills on behalf of the American Management Association. I have done a number of collaborations over time with various other individuals, all in the organizational space. That is the short synopsis, except I have also written a couple of best-selling books. The first one is called Getting to Resolution: Turning Conflict into Collaboration. It was endorsed by Stephen Covey. It was named one of the best business books of 1998, second edition came out in 2008. A follow-up called The Book of Agreement: 10 Essential Elements for Getting the Results You Want. That was endorsed by a number of notable people. That’s the short answer. You and I met in the context of both being on the faculty of an organization called CEO Space. It’s a pleasure to see your face again, Hugh.
 Hugh: It’s a pleasure. Thank you for stepping up when I sent out that probing email. Actually, we were standing in those groups out in the lobby, and someone was addressing the group. I whipped out my draft of my workbook, Dealing with High Performance Teams, and I said, “Would you do me a favor and review this? Tell me what it’s missing.” You sent me an email saying there was nothing about agreements in here. So I asked if I could quote your book of the 10EssentialElementsofAgreementsso I could give you attribution. I refer to those all the time. I send people to Amazon to get that book. It’s really a treasure.
 We are speaking to people who are in the social benefit/for-purpose sector. They are clergy running a church or synagogue. They are executive directors running a for-purpose community-based organization. They are running a membership organization. I see a lot of conflict because people haven’t been really good in creating this agreement. They don’t write it down. They haven’t decided how we are going to define expectations. I would guess, we’re talking about collaboration and alignment today. I would think one tenet of alignment is to be able to have your expectations written down. Where do you start with alignment? What is the starting point?
 Stewart: Sure. Just to frame this, what I always say to people is you can pay me now or pay me later. If you pay me now, you’ll pay me a lot less. Essentially what that means is spend a little time on the front end, making sure you have alignment, making sure you have shared expectations. Otherwise, the root of conflict is when people have different understandings of what they are doing together, and they have a different sense of metrics in terms of how we are going to measure whether or not we were successful. Critical piece is spending time on the front end. TheBookofAgreementcontains about 30 models of agreements for getting to a place of alignment. Those ten elements are actually so good I put them on the back of my business card. It’s not like I’m trying to keep any secrets. I am happy to give them away.
 You start off by having a conversation. What is our intent and vision? In other words, what are we doing together? What’s our intent and vision? By the way, as a little aside, most legal agreements are something that I refer to as agreements for protection. What if this goes wrong, and what if that goes wrong? There is not a huge amount of time spent on what we are trying to achieve here. That was the perspective that I took. What is our intent and vision?
 What is the role that each one of us is going to play? In other words, what is each party or person responsible for?
 What are the specific promises that each person makes? In other words, what is each person going to do to bring that vision into reality? How are they going to contribute?
 What is the value that each person receives? Why? Because if people don’t receive, if they are not getting value out of any form of collaboration, they will stop contributing. They will stop performing.
 Metrics. How will you measure whether or not you were successful? Get it to a place of objectivity.
 Concerns and fears. People often have concerns and fears that they don’t want to talk about. They are shy. What I like to do is put this in the model. No, this is something you have to talk about.
 Renegotiation. The idea that when we begin, we know what we know, but we don’t know what we don’t know. As we work together, moving down the road, we discover things, and we constantly need to be mindful of renegotiating that agreement to make sure we are back in a place of alignment.
 Consequences or benefits. What’s at stake here? What’s really at stake in this collaboration for the individuals involved, for the organization, for the community that is being served in the world of nonprofit and benefit organizations?
 Conflict resolution. We know that things happen. How are we going to resolve the conflicts and differences when they come up?
 After you have talked about those nine things, you look at the other person or the group and go, Yes or no. This is a project that I am engaged with. What I like to say is if you got good alignment, you don’t have to worry about loose panels flapping off the rocket ship that you are trying to get to take off.
 I’m not sure where that came from. A little feedback from the universe. That’s okay. The last element, number ten, is agreement and trust. Are we aligned? This is what is essential to do at the front end. People who start to use this and discover it think it’s like sliced bread. It’s just amazing, the simple ten element model, what it can create and what it can save you in the long run.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I call it paying the upfront price. You quoted the oil filter pay me now or pay me later. That’s a great commercial. It’s so true. It’s the price upfront is far cheaper. That’s a brilliant model. What happens when you get to #10 is you really know that you have an agreement.
 Stewart: You know you have an agreement, or you know you don’t, which is of equal value. You know that Okay, this is, we’re not in alignment. I don’t think we can get to alignment. This is not a good project to work on together.
 Hugh: I don’t know if you know I do lots of group board meetings and staff meetings. I am fundamentally a music connector who helps build ensembles, which is synergy in group interaction. In the South, y’all can tell I’m in the South, we say none of us is as smart as all of us. How do you get the best collective thinking without going into groupthink? My answer to that is we teach people how to build consensus. I find most people confuse consensus and compromise when they are the exact opposite. A consensus is a win-win, and compromise is lose-lose. What dawns on me as you are describing that model which I have read so many times is that prompts people to talk in a different way, discover new things, and come to some sort of consensus that whether we can work together or we can’t. Is consensus part of alignment?
 Stewart: Absolutely. Consensus is essentially alignment. I’m glad you mentioned the word “compromise.” You said it exactly correctly, Hugh. Compromise means to lose-lose. People giving up what’s important to them. Consensus is we are all in agreement, we are all in alignment, we are all moving forward toward the same things with the same end result in mind.
 Hugh: It’s very misunderstood. What setting it is. A corporate setting, a boardroom, or anything like that. I think it’s really misunderstood. It’s important that we can build that synergy if we are going to work together as teams. Why is alignment essential in today’s world? Why don’t you go to D.C. and teach them? You can skip that second part.
 Stewart: I want to go back a second, and I will come to your question. I want to punctuate this point, Hugh. What also happens in the process of having this conversation is you start to develop a real deeper relationship. I don’t mean an intimate personal relationship; I mean a working relationship. And as we all know, when you have relationship with people you are working with, it’s much easier to resolve differences, which will inherently come up. The only reason people end up in lawsuits is when relationships break down. That’s the only time they resort to those 100-page agreements that attorneys prepare, when the relationship breaks down. Otherwise, they work it out; they want to keep working together.
 Having said that, why is this more important in today’s world? I think it’s more important in today’s world because we have a lot less face-to-face interaction. So much of what we’re doing transactionally is virtual. In those kinds of situations, it’s easier to be a jerk. And people don’t consciously spend time to build relationships. This is a way to do it. That’s one piece.
 The second piece is it’s too costly when things break down. When you end up in conflict and any kind of lawsuits or legal process, you can’t afford it. You can’t afford to waste that time removing so quick.
 Three is if you look out at the world, it seems that there is a movement toward a much more values-based business and organizational culture. Much more. Because people realize what goes around comes around. You can’t treat transactions as a one-shot deal. We have to be more relational and values-based. Even the millennial generation coming up, for them, it’s real important to be part of a mission-driven organization, whatever that mission happens to be. To frame for-profit missions as having a “missionary” value. Business organizations in some sense are becoming a place where people get in culture. Business, nonprofits, in that context, it’s where we spend so much time. Bringing values and alignment into that are critical.
 Probably more than you wanted to hear. To go back to that other question about Washington D.C., about 10 years ago, I was actually doing a two-day program for the Federal Executive Institute, which is run out of the Treasury Department. I had about 75 people for two days. At the end of the program, a bunch of Navy officers came up to me in white uniforms and said, “You need to go down the block and teach those guys in Congress.” Bottom line is, I don’t know if you remember those old jokes, “How many blanks does it take to change a light bulb?” How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, but it’s got to want to change. The guys in D.C., I use guys generically, they don’t seem to want to change. They are sitting in some old cultural model, and that’s why the rating in D.C. of the folks that we elect as representatives and our employees, the ratings are so incredibly low.
 Hugh: They are. We are shaped by the culture that we have experienced and the culture we have been injected into. We don’t have to accept that. I can’t imagine what it’s like on the inside. Some of the large companies and some of the large churches I have served have a culture. You refer to this topic of conflict. Before we leave the alignment and agreement piece, what I have experienced when people have those kinds of conversations. By the way, another piece Russell and I present and attend is the Business Acceleration Summit with your cheerleader Shannon Gronich, who studied your program with you. She uses it quite well. In going through that process, there is a transformation that happens with people’s perspective, even those who want to change. There is a substantive transformation that happens. Give us the story. Am I right? Does that happen with people exploring those options? If so, is there an example without giving away names of the kind of transformation that happens when people can have a different kind of conversation?
 Stewart: It creates connection. Connectivity. To me, human connectivity is the key to productivity. That sounds like a rhyme. Connectivity is the key to productivity. It is. If you think about high performance teams, what was it about the teams that made them great? The human relationships. The high levels of trust. When you create alignment, that is naturally going to happen. For religious organizations, go back to the words of Christ. Wherever two or more of you are gathered, there is one. When you create alignment and connection, you create a different kind of energy. It’s there. It’s there.
 One other thing I wanted to say about this, Hugh. You mentioned the word “culture.” I do cultural transformation work. People often ask for that. It’s a very amorphous concept. When you think about what is culture in an organization, culture is actually held in relationships. Relationships are a function of agreements, implicit and explicit. I say if we can make our agreements explicit, we can change the culture. By having agreements with how we will be with each other, how we will treat each other. I have done this in many organizations over time. It always comes up value-based because people use their highest aspirations when they are creating these kinds of agreements. Culture. Huge piece.
 Hugh: Let’s focus in a minute. As a conductor, I create high performance cultures in choirs and orchestras. If you are familiar, the person at the front influences others. I have a lot of leaders say, “I want other people to change.” I point out, “That ain’t gonna happen unless you change.” I don’t know if you’re familiar with the work of Murray Bowen, the psychiatrist who has a whole leadership methodology. Bowen’s wisdom is if you want to change people on your team, you change yourself, and they reflect that. What you are talking about is the vulnerability of the leader willing to open their brains to something new.
 Stewart: Jim Kouzes, favorite leadership consultant, and his partner Barry Posner. Talk about as one of the key elements of leadership modeling the way. That is a validation of what you just said. Modeling the way. Change yourself. Show others how you want them to be. Critical piece.
 Hugh: Amen.
 Stewart: Amen. It’s interesting. I did a project for a state government agency a few years ago. You asked for an example. They were implementing a new fiscal system to the entire state. It was coming out of the controller’s office. You can imagine the political, the legacy systems. It was a group of professional accountants who were charged with the pilot program. I got a call from someone who had seen me present about 10 years ago for the Project Management Institutes in the Greater Bay Area of San Francisco, which is where I am. I got in there and used the models that we’re talking about to get to the bottom of what conflicts were between the various units and to create an agreement about how it was that these folks were going to move forward with the level of human alignment to get this first pilot off the ground and in the implementation off the ground. It’s amazing what these ten elements of agreement can do. It’s a systematic way of creating an activity, alignment, a shift in culture, how to get humans hooked up and connected.
 Hugh: I’m coming back. We are champions of transformational leadership. That is a transformational mindset here of people being aware. I think what happens when I have seen leaders go through steps like which you are proposing, there is a transformation of their knowledge and their being. They see the world differently when they start having conversations.
 Stewart: I call that mindset “resolutionary thinking.” Resolutionary thinking. Mindset is certainly something that I talk about. As a matter of fact, in my first book, when Stephen Covey endorsed it, he actually said, “The mindset and the skillset are just terrific.”
 Hugh: Love it. I have been hogging all the time here. I want to give Russell a chance. He listens. Russell, I notice Stewart doesn’t miss a lick. He comes back to my questions even though I forgot I asked them. Real clarity of thought here. Russell, what are you hearing? Before we switch over to talking about conflict, do you have any observations or questions on this powerful part Stewart is bringing to us?
 Russell: Thinking about alignment, it starts with ourselves. I am going to go out on a limb and guess that’s why you wrote this book: to talk about internal alignment. We all have that. When we recognize that need to align ourselves internally, then we get along better with others. What is critical to this alignment and approaching this process in this manner it stops any problems before they start. People don’t do business with entities; people do business with people. If we are not aligned or on the same page, it won’t work very well. I really appreciate all of the things that I see. This is a book I keep for myself. I have used it to put agreements together that I put together for people I do business with so that we can create a good set of expectations. We don’t want to have problems later. Although this book has been around for a while, people don’t seem to be as proactive as they could be. You look at your typical agreement, and it’s written in legalese. We don’t want to duck for cover. We want to work together and solve some problems. I love your approach in that way.
 Stewart: It’s interesting, Russell. Having practiced law for ten years, I saw all these legal books that their lawyers put their names in. In some ways, when I wrote The Book of Agreement, it was my antidote to that kind of agreement. The legal agreements I call agreements of protection. My agreements I call agreements for results. They help you get to that place you want to. Thank you. Thank you. To validate your point, this whole notion of being aligned internally, having some level of clarity, having some level of emotional intelligence, mindfulness, call it being awake, call it religion, religious people having a level of Christ consciousness, all these things are critical to being able to engage effectively with others. In some ways, having yourself out of the way a bit so that you can listen to the needs and wants of others, which is the only place you get connectivity. When I talk about listening skills, I say that listening is a skill that has you show up as a great communicator, and it’s one of the few things you can do unilaterally. You don’t need anyone else’s cooperation. All you have to do is drop your concerns and be in service to the other to find out what it is they are talking about. That is the foundational piece to create real connectivity.
 Hugh: Russell, do you have a question you are noodling on here?
 Russell: No, I was thinking about what the great problem is. A lot of us internally make assumptions. When you make assumptions, the expectations build upon that, which is what leads to conflict. I have heard people define expectations as pre-planned resentment. People don’t come to the table. They sit down, they sign an agreement, they assume that the other side knows what it is they want and what those expectations are, and there is a lot of legalese without getting to the meat and potatoes of assumptions.
 Stewart: Russell, one of the mantras when I was practicing law was when you would come to a resolution of the case, the mantra was, “If everybody is unhappy, then you have a good settlement.” I just scratched my head the first time I heard that and said, “No, there has to be a better way than this.” This is the perfect transition if you want to talk about conflict for a bit. The whole notion of resolving conflict is about when I say getting to resolution, not having an agreement everybody is unhappy with. You haven’t resolved anything.
 Going back to our initial discussion, you compromised, and you ended up in a lose-lose situation to be able to move forward. You killed a relationship. You have killed what may have been an opportunity for real productivity.
 Hugh: Amazing. This fictitious topic of conflict in the workplace. Why don’t you give us a perspective? How do you define conflict?
 Stewart: An important distinction in this conversation initially is differences versus conflict. Differences as we all know are a good thing. This leads to diversity in opinion, better solution, innovation, creativity. Difference is different perspectives. A good thing.
 Now, conflict arises when people become committed to being right, when their egos take over, and their way or the highway, or my way is the right way, or I have the truth here. That is when they get emotionally attached. That emotional attachment is what I call conflict. Difference is a good thing. Conflict is emotional attachment.
 Where that leads to in terms of thinking about conflict, it’s never about who is going to get the corner office. It’s about the individual’s emotional attachment. If you really want to resolve the conflict, and I learned this early on doing divorce meditation, deal with the emotion first, whatever that happens to be. Give people the opportunity to vent and get that emotion out of their system. Then, whatever they were fighting about, it almost seems silly. When people have the opportunity to talk about the emotion that was hanging them up.
 Or another way of looking at that is you can think of conflict as oppositional. People are gripped in emotion. If we were all emotionally mature and evolved, when something was not working, you could just say to each other, “This isn’t working, is it?” We both go, “No, it’s not.” Where do we want to go together? Where do we want to go together in the future? As opposed to processing this conflict, let’s create a new agreement. Whatever we think we have by way of agreement is not working. Let’s create a new one prospectively for where we want to go together from this point forward. Otherwise, we keep dragging the baggage and the cost of conflict with us moment to moment, and the cash register is raining on that cost. So that’s a frame, a way to think about it.
 Yeah, operating on assumptions and crossed expectations is the greatest cause of conflict in organizations. Greatest cause of conflict. Hugh, you look like you want to say something.
 Hugh: I do find it pretty much in any organization. It’s more prevalent when people aren’t willing or able to confront the facts. We have spun confront to be a toxic thing when it really means with your front. What I also learned in studying the work of Murray Bowen is that you approach conflict directly and calmly and factually. If you got your agreement form, we have got the renegotiation piece in there. We don’t think we can do that. We have made a plan, so we have to work the plan. Wait a minute. Something is wrong. This renegotiation piece, it would occur to me is a part of way to move through conflict.
 Stewart: Critical piece. Just to validate this notion about confronting. Intel, which has been a pretty successful organization over the years, they actually characterize their culture as one of constructive confrontation, constructive conversation. We tackle what is off in terms of alignment. We want to be in that place of getting back to alignment. The renegotiation is that piece. As you know, people sometimes get attached to being right or their way, especially when the clarity of expectation was not set correctly at the front end with a good, solid agreement of the kind I might help facilitate or the kind that you use.
 Hugh: Back to the relationship piece. What I find happens, and we had a guest a couple months ago from Australia who has a brilliant tool called the Conversations game. People are able to take down a mask and talk about things they really didn’t think they would talk about. People who were enemies asked each other for their phone numbers. Part of it is disarming people by leading them into having conversations of substance rather than the ones we think we ought to have. We learn about the other person. There is this relationship building. That is what is so good about my definition of consensus: an agreement that is worked out in a group process, but is backed by relationship. If you have gone through your agreement, your tenth point is you are in agreement because you know each other by then. Speak to the relationship piece of this moving through conflict. We write the agreement; how do we keep it active instead of a piece of paper we file away?
 Stewart: Great. First of all, it’s not 100 pages. It’s probably two or three. As you see from all the agreements in the book.
 Two, in terms of the relationship piece, people do get emotional. We have different perspectives. We have different observations. We have different feelings because we are unique individual biological machines. We get emotional. Our emotions get triggered. You need to give people the context in which they have the opportunity to get those up and out of their system. In my conversational model for resolving conflict, there are two ways in which that is done. One, people get to tell their stories about the situation, which is a narrative, an open-ended question.
 Then there is a specific set of questions to move people down a little bit deeper, to make sure what is tied up on the inside actually comes out. It’s almost like there is not the truth of what the stories the people hold is, but you need to give them the opportunity to get it out and clear it a bit so then they can resume the positive relationship moving forward in the future. I saw this with couples, which is where I learned, and the emotions do not run so high in organizations. But I saw couples get out of them and given the opportunity to realize, Oh, that was my husband. That was my wife. That was my partner. That was my mate. That was my lover. How have I gotten to the point where I have created them as such a monster by the noise in my own head? They were doing the best they could. That’s what most people realize in this process. The other person was not intentionally trying to be hurtful, but they were trying to do the best they can. We all know we are living in a very fast-paced soup that the military of all places, the U.S. military, has defined as we live in a VUCA environment. It is volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. This is the soup we are trying to transact in. People get to see and realize they were doing the best that they could now, so what is our relationship going forward?
 Hugh: This is so synergistic with what we teach, isn’t it, Russell?
 Russell: I thought so. Very much so. As we move through this process, it’s taking the You statements out of what you say to people. That’s critical. This is a place, and I know that when you talk about marketing, people want to address You statements and talk about the value for the people you are serving. When it comes to conflict though, You statements can escalate it. It’s backing away from those things and really setting a frame where people want to cooperate, they want to resolve things, and they don’t want to make it personal. There is a skill, and we will probably address it in the personal skills, that for separated people from behavior or from statements. That is critical to creating a place where you got an environment or friend where you want to come to agreement.
 Stewart: Critical. We have all seen it where you have major breakdowns on a business side, and people realize, Geez, there is too much profit here. We have to make this work. I did a program a number of years ago for a nonprofit private adoption agency. It was a partnership between a county child welfare agency and this adoption agency. What the adoption agency did is they got kids who were considered unadoptable up to speed so they could be placed in permanent homes. The consequences for a kid being emancipated when they are still in foster care and don’t have permanent adoptive care are huge. I got Masters in Social Work on both sides, and it was almost like central casting. I am working in a room where I have posters of the kids all around. The bottom line was I kept trying to get them to realize, and they got it, that working together is absolutely essential because there is a larger benefit here. People realize that. To have a programmatic way of moving through the difference in conflict. My goal was to get it so that it wasn’t just an agreement on the surface, but people would have a context in which to cleanse that emotion. They would resolve that emotion. That emotion wouldn’t linger going forward. As they could actually have real alignment. The technical term I would use is there was no longer any chatter.
 Hugh: As you are working through this, you referred to some skills. Stewart, what are the critical interpersonal skills that one must pay attention to and embrace?
 Stewart: This whole area of emotional intelligence, which has become a buzz word these days. Self-knowledge, having some knowledge of who you are and self-awareness. What’s going on inside of you at any moment in time. Self-regulation. Capacity to manage your own behavior and your own emotion. Self-motivation. Knowledge of what’s important to you, which is like a strategic element of emotional intelligence. Empathy. Care and concern for others. I go back to my electronic signature. People use it all the time. It’s a couplet from Longfellow, “If you knew the secret history of those you would like to punish, you would find a sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all in your hostility.” Very powerful. Standing in another’s shoes. And the skills of speaking from the I perspective or I statements, as Russell mentioned earlier. Listening skills as a critical skill. Being able to appreciate and understand that the operating system of the human biological machine over there is different than the operating system in this human biological machine. Not good or bad, it’s just the way it is. Trying to be more audience-centric in our conversation. Think about who it is we are speaking to. Otherwise, we are just talking to ourselves. So those are probably the most critical pieces.
 Hugh: Many leaders aren’t aware of the impact and influence they have in the culture. Self-awareness is something that I see a lot of leaders struggle with. You probably serve as a confidential advisor to leaders. We call it different things. I choose not to use the word “coach” or :consultant.” It’s around that mentoring/coaching/consulting people, and helping people discover some of these blind spots. What is your opinion on successful leaders having an advisor of some sort?
 Stewart: It’s critical because leaders are working alone. If they are at the top of the pyramid, or as Max Dupree would say, at the bottom of the pyramid, I am here to serve everybody else. But essentially, it’s in all literature that leaders are working alone. To have someone they can confide in and talk about their own insecurities, it’s a critical piece. The self-awareness is- When I am teaching, I always say my goal is to become a more audience-centric, emotionally intelligent, conscious communicator, when I am teaching communications skills. By conscious communicator, you thought through in some ways the impact of what you are saying and doing on other people.
 Another one I left out is nonverbal. The awareness of your nonverbal skills. As we all know, so much of our communication, somewhere between 60-90% is nonverbal. To be aware that people are picking up messages from you. To be mindful about the presence that you bring. It’s so important. Always having two-way communication, or as I like to say, communication happens when you establish shared meaning. Broadcasting messages is not communication. It’s broadcasting messages. There is a big difference. Communication is when you have a back and forth, at least to a shared meaning and a common understanding.
 Hugh: It is a lost art in some places. We are in a high-tech world where people send out data assuming that is communication. I appreciate your reframing of that. In 31 years of working with groups, the subject of communication always comes out, lack thereof. It’s like when Barry used to say is you perceive happiness, it eludes you. It’s almost the same with communication. When you focus on communication, it eludes you, when really it’s a byproduct of building relationships and being clear on our agreements, our purposes, our expectations. Within your strategy and implementation of your strategy, communication happens. You have demonstrated in this call today really good listening skills. That is top in being a conductor. We impact the culture by what we do, and the visual part is huge. One of the trainers of conductors says, “What they see is what you get.” The impact we have in that self-awareness is a huge one. I appreciate that list of skills. Good leaders are always working on those, aren’t they?
 Stewart: Always. It’s the whole notion of lifelong learning. After each interaction, you have the level of mindfulness to do a self-assessment. How did I do? How might have I been better at doing that? It’s always about creating relationships. Always. Always.
 One of the things I wanted to say in terms of the context you guys operate in, the religious and nonprofit organizations, in those institutions, it takes an additional degree of focus to some sense. Why? Because people have a different sense of self. By that I mean there is some element of—and I don’t say this in a negative way—righteousness. We are engaging and working on a good cause. We are working for something positive and of value. When it comes to interpersonal relationships, that righteousness can have a tendency to get in the way, which I am sure you have experienced over time. This is where these skills become important in those contexts.
 There is something else I wanted to say in response to what you said, Hugh. It left my mind. The thought drifted off into the universe. Maybe it will come back before we’re done.
 Hugh: I am very fond of people who can encapsulate things. As I am thinking through all of what you’re talking about, the leader impacts people. We’re anxious. It spreads throughout the community. Richard Rohr, author and founder of OFM, says, “Hurting people hurt people. Transformed people transform people.” It would occur to me working through the system that you have created, which is not really difficult, but is pretty profound in its simplicity and directness and the impact that it has.
 Stewart: It’s really interesting. I was just working with a group of senior scientists. I knew they would love this. This whole model I am talking about I have it drawn down to half a page schematic. Each one of the critical elements. As I like to say with so many things in this area, all of the things we are talking about are simple, but not easy. Simple to understand. This is not rocket science, but it’s not easy to do. There is the one-page-
 Hugh: Cycle of Resolution. What book is that in?
 Stewart: It’s in Getting to Resolution. Page 248.
 Hugh: You can find out more about Stewart at ResolutionWorks.com. I would imagine your books are listed somewhere on your website, and possibly on Amazon as well.
 Stewart: Both of those places.
 Hugh: I will give you a chance to have a parting thought with people. What would you like to leave people with? Russell will close out this interview.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 Stewart, what would you like to leave people with?
 Stewart: The importance of relationships. The book Getting to Resolution might have been called Getting to Relationship. That is the critical piece. Alignment, moving through differences and conflict, always back to that place of relationship. That is where productivity comes from. That is where creating value comes from. Critical piece. It only happens as a result of, Russell pointed out, being centered in yourself, having alignment within yourself, and then when you have that foundation, you can use all the tools and techniques I talked about to connect with others.
 I wanted to thank both of you for the wonderful quality of your presence in this interview. My pleasure to contribute to the community you guys are serving.
 Russell: Thank you. Folks, take a trip over to ResolutionWorks.com. There is lots of material here. The principles are powerful. The power is in the simplicity. It’s not easy. What separates what Stewart is doing from a lot of other things out there that you see is that it’s not just dealing with situations or agreements in and of themselves, but it’s creating a framework where we can talk to one another and continue to have open conversations together to keep things on track. We are all different. We will not agree on every little thing. If we have a process where we honor one another, the breakouts will disappear. That’s a wonderful thing.
 Hugh: Thank you, guys. Such wonderful material. Stewart Levine, again, a pleasure to be with you.
 Stewart: My pleasure to be back in connection, Hugh. Thank you for inviting me.
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      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/70b4f7e6-b329-11eb-9f0f-7f50a909ac36/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Author of The Book of Agreements, Stewart Levine in the Guest</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Powerful Collaborations with Stewart Levine
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Russell, here we are again. Week after week, we have amazing people. Yet today, this is a friend from years ago. I sent out an email asking people if they wanted to contribute to the magazine or be on the show. Immediately, Stewart Levine responded. How are things in Denver today, Russell?
 Russell Dennis: It’s a little cloudy, a little bit cooler than it has been. But we are in the fall season. All is well otherwise. Welcome, Stewart. Thank you for coming.
 Stewart Levine: My pleasure to be with you guys today. I will be landing in Denver early tomorrow morning and then driving up to Vail for some American Bar Association meetings. Interesting, because I have a new book called Becoming the Best Lawyer You Can Be: How to Maintain Physical, Emotional, Spiritual, and Mental Health. The American Bar Association, 27 authors, I curated it and edited it. I’m actually very excited about it.
 Hugh: Look at that. Let’s back up. I’m sure there is people watching who want to know who this guy is anyway. Why don’t you tell them, Stewart?
 Stewart: Thank you, Hugh. Here’s the short synopsis. I practiced law for about 10 years in a reasonably traditional number of contexts, starting off in the New Jersey Attorney General’s office. Then I got tired of fighting with people. And it was before the whole ADR, Alternative Dispute Resolution, movement came on board. So I decided to do a little career change. I spent six years inside of AT&amp;T as they were going through huge organizational change and transformation with major law firms as my clients, not in a legal sense, but in an account representative sense.
 On a parallel track, I started divorce meditation because I wanted to use the skills I had developed as a lawyer. I learned a lot about communication, about collaboration, about conflict resolution working with couples getting divorced because no one is in worse shape than that. Over time, I moved that work over into working with organizations, teens, organizational transformational cultural change work, individual coaching. For the last 30 years, that essentially is what I have been doing.
 The last 10 years, I have learned a ton of teaching programs and all the soft skills, relationship skills on behalf of the American Management Association. I have done a number of collaborations over time with various other individuals, all in the organizational space. That is the short synopsis, except I have also written a couple of best-selling books. The first one is called Getting to Resolution: Turning Conflict into Collaboration. It was endorsed by Stephen Covey. It was named one of the best business books of 1998, second edition came out in 2008. A follow-up called The Book of Agreement: 10 Essential Elements for Getting the Results You Want. That was endorsed by a number of notable people. That’s the short answer. You and I met in the context of both being on the faculty of an organization called CEO Space. It’s a pleasure to see your face again, Hugh.
 Hugh: It’s a pleasure. Thank you for stepping up when I sent out that probing email. Actually, we were standing in those groups out in the lobby, and someone was addressing the group. I whipped out my draft of my workbook, Dealing with High Performance Teams, and I said, “Would you do me a favor and review this? Tell me what it’s missing.” You sent me an email saying there was nothing about agreements in here. So I asked if I could quote your book of the 10EssentialElementsofAgreementsso I could give you attribution. I refer to those all the time. I send people to Amazon to get that book. It’s really a treasure.
 We are speaking to people who are in the social benefit/for-purpose sector. They are clergy running a church or synagogue. They are executive directors running a for-purpose community-based organization. They are running a membership organization. I see a lot of conflict because people haven’t been really good in creating this agreement. They don’t write it down. They haven’t decided how we are going to define expectations. I would guess, we’re talking about collaboration and alignment today. I would think one tenet of alignment is to be able to have your expectations written down. Where do you start with alignment? What is the starting point?
 Stewart: Sure. Just to frame this, what I always say to people is you can pay me now or pay me later. If you pay me now, you’ll pay me a lot less. Essentially what that means is spend a little time on the front end, making sure you have alignment, making sure you have shared expectations. Otherwise, the root of conflict is when people have different understandings of what they are doing together, and they have a different sense of metrics in terms of how we are going to measure whether or not we were successful. Critical piece is spending time on the front end. TheBookofAgreementcontains about 30 models of agreements for getting to a place of alignment. Those ten elements are actually so good I put them on the back of my business card. It’s not like I’m trying to keep any secrets. I am happy to give them away.
 You start off by having a conversation. What is our intent and vision? In other words, what are we doing together? What’s our intent and vision? By the way, as a little aside, most legal agreements are something that I refer to as agreements for protection. What if this goes wrong, and what if that goes wrong? There is not a huge amount of time spent on what we are trying to achieve here. That was the perspective that I took. What is our intent and vision?
 What is the role that each one of us is going to play? In other words, what is each party or person responsible for?
 What are the specific promises that each person makes? In other words, what is each person going to do to bring that vision into reality? How are they going to contribute?
 What is the value that each person receives? Why? Because if people don’t receive, if they are not getting value out of any form of collaboration, they will stop contributing. They will stop performing.
 Metrics. How will you measure whether or not you were successful? Get it to a place of objectivity.
 Concerns and fears. People often have concerns and fears that they don’t want to talk about. They are shy. What I like to do is put this in the model. No, this is something you have to talk about.
 Renegotiation. The idea that when we begin, we know what we know, but we don’t know what we don’t know. As we work together, moving down the road, we discover things, and we constantly need to be mindful of renegotiating that agreement to make sure we are back in a place of alignment.
 Consequences or benefits. What’s at stake here? What’s really at stake in this collaboration for the individuals involved, for the organization, for the community that is being served in the world of nonprofit and benefit organizations?
 Conflict resolution. We know that things happen. How are we going to resolve the conflicts and differences when they come up?
 After you have talked about those nine things, you look at the other person or the group and go, Yes or no. This is a project that I am engaged with. What I like to say is if you got good alignment, you don’t have to worry about loose panels flapping off the rocket ship that you are trying to get to take off.
 I’m not sure where that came from. A little feedback from the universe. That’s okay. The last element, number ten, is agreement and trust. Are we aligned? This is what is essential to do at the front end. People who start to use this and discover it think it’s like sliced bread. It’s just amazing, the simple ten element model, what it can create and what it can save you in the long run.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I call it paying the upfront price. You quoted the oil filter pay me now or pay me later. That’s a great commercial. It’s so true. It’s the price upfront is far cheaper. That’s a brilliant model. What happens when you get to #10 is you really know that you have an agreement.
 Stewart: You know you have an agreement, or you know you don’t, which is of equal value. You know that Okay, this is, we’re not in alignment. I don’t think we can get to alignment. This is not a good project to work on together.
 Hugh: I don’t know if you know I do lots of group board meetings and staff meetings. I am fundamentally a music connector who helps build ensembles, which is synergy in group interaction. In the South, y’all can tell I’m in the South, we say none of us is as smart as all of us. How do you get the best collective thinking without going into groupthink? My answer to that is we teach people how to build consensus. I find most people confuse consensus and compromise when they are the exact opposite. A consensus is a win-win, and compromise is lose-lose. What dawns on me as you are describing that model which I have read so many times is that prompts people to talk in a different way, discover new things, and come to some sort of consensus that whether we can work together or we can’t. Is consensus part of alignment?
 Stewart: Absolutely. Consensus is essentially alignment. I’m glad you mentioned the word “compromise.” You said it exactly correctly, Hugh. Compromise means to lose-lose. People giving up what’s important to them. Consensus is we are all in agreement, we are all in alignment, we are all moving forward toward the same things with the same end result in mind.
 Hugh: It’s very misunderstood. What setting it is. A corporate setting, a boardroom, or anything like that. I think it’s really misunderstood. It’s important that we can build that synergy if we are going to work together as teams. Why is alignment essential in today’s world? Why don’t you go to D.C. and teach them? You can skip that second part.
 Stewart: I want to go back a second, and I will come to your question. I want to punctuate this point, Hugh. What also happens in the process of having this conversation is you start to develop a real deeper relationship. I don’t mean an intimate personal relationship; I mean a working relationship. And as we all know, when you have relationship with people you are working with, it’s much easier to resolve differences, which will inherently come up. The only reason people end up in lawsuits is when relationships break down. That’s the only time they resort to those 100-page agreements that attorneys prepare, when the relationship breaks down. Otherwise, they work it out; they want to keep working together.
 Having said that, why is this more important in today’s world? I think it’s more important in today’s world because we have a lot less face-to-face interaction. So much of what we’re doing transactionally is virtual. In those kinds of situations, it’s easier to be a jerk. And people don’t consciously spend time to build relationships. This is a way to do it. That’s one piece.
 The second piece is it’s too costly when things break down. When you end up in conflict and any kind of lawsuits or legal process, you can’t afford it. You can’t afford to waste that time removing so quick.
 Three is if you look out at the world, it seems that there is a movement toward a much more values-based business and organizational culture. Much more. Because people realize what goes around comes around. You can’t treat transactions as a one-shot deal. We have to be more relational and values-based. Even the millennial generation coming up, for them, it’s real important to be part of a mission-driven organization, whatever that mission happens to be. To frame for-profit missions as having a “missionary” value. Business organizations in some sense are becoming a place where people get in culture. Business, nonprofits, in that context, it’s where we spend so much time. Bringing values and alignment into that are critical.
 Probably more than you wanted to hear. To go back to that other question about Washington D.C., about 10 years ago, I was actually doing a two-day program for the Federal Executive Institute, which is run out of the Treasury Department. I had about 75 people for two days. At the end of the program, a bunch of Navy officers came up to me in white uniforms and said, “You need to go down the block and teach those guys in Congress.” Bottom line is, I don’t know if you remember those old jokes, “How many blanks does it take to change a light bulb?” How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, but it’s got to want to change. The guys in D.C., I use guys generically, they don’t seem to want to change. They are sitting in some old cultural model, and that’s why the rating in D.C. of the folks that we elect as representatives and our employees, the ratings are so incredibly low.
 Hugh: They are. We are shaped by the culture that we have experienced and the culture we have been injected into. We don’t have to accept that. I can’t imagine what it’s like on the inside. Some of the large companies and some of the large churches I have served have a culture. You refer to this topic of conflict. Before we leave the alignment and agreement piece, what I have experienced when people have those kinds of conversations. By the way, another piece Russell and I present and attend is the Business Acceleration Summit with your cheerleader Shannon Gronich, who studied your program with you. She uses it quite well. In going through that process, there is a transformation that happens with people’s perspective, even those who want to change. There is a substantive transformation that happens. Give us the story. Am I right? Does that happen with people exploring those options? If so, is there an example without giving away names of the kind of transformation that happens when people can have a different kind of conversation?
 Stewart: It creates connection. Connectivity. To me, human connectivity is the key to productivity. That sounds like a rhyme. Connectivity is the key to productivity. It is. If you think about high performance teams, what was it about the teams that made them great? The human relationships. The high levels of trust. When you create alignment, that is naturally going to happen. For religious organizations, go back to the words of Christ. Wherever two or more of you are gathered, there is one. When you create alignment and connection, you create a different kind of energy. It’s there. It’s there.
 One other thing I wanted to say about this, Hugh. You mentioned the word “culture.” I do cultural transformation work. People often ask for that. It’s a very amorphous concept. When you think about what is culture in an organization, culture is actually held in relationships. Relationships are a function of agreements, implicit and explicit. I say if we can make our agreements explicit, we can change the culture. By having agreements with how we will be with each other, how we will treat each other. I have done this in many organizations over time. It always comes up value-based because people use their highest aspirations when they are creating these kinds of agreements. Culture. Huge piece.
 Hugh: Let’s focus in a minute. As a conductor, I create high performance cultures in choirs and orchestras. If you are familiar, the person at the front influences others. I have a lot of leaders say, “I want other people to change.” I point out, “That ain’t gonna happen unless you change.” I don’t know if you’re familiar with the work of Murray Bowen, the psychiatrist who has a whole leadership methodology. Bowen’s wisdom is if you want to change people on your team, you change yourself, and they reflect that. What you are talking about is the vulnerability of the leader willing to open their brains to something new.
 Stewart: Jim Kouzes, favorite leadership consultant, and his partner Barry Posner. Talk about as one of the key elements of leadership modeling the way. That is a validation of what you just said. Modeling the way. Change yourself. Show others how you want them to be. Critical piece.
 Hugh: Amen.
 Stewart: Amen. It’s interesting. I did a project for a state government agency a few years ago. You asked for an example. They were implementing a new fiscal system to the entire state. It was coming out of the controller’s office. You can imagine the political, the legacy systems. It was a group of professional accountants who were charged with the pilot program. I got a call from someone who had seen me present about 10 years ago for the Project Management Institutes in the Greater Bay Area of San Francisco, which is where I am. I got in there and used the models that we’re talking about to get to the bottom of what conflicts were between the various units and to create an agreement about how it was that these folks were going to move forward with the level of human alignment to get this first pilot off the ground and in the implementation off the ground. It’s amazing what these ten elements of agreement can do. It’s a systematic way of creating an activity, alignment, a shift in culture, how to get humans hooked up and connected.
 Hugh: I’m coming back. We are champions of transformational leadership. That is a transformational mindset here of people being aware. I think what happens when I have seen leaders go through steps like which you are proposing, there is a transformation of their knowledge and their being. They see the world differently when they start having conversations.
 Stewart: I call that mindset “resolutionary thinking.” Resolutionary thinking. Mindset is certainly something that I talk about. As a matter of fact, in my first book, when Stephen Covey endorsed it, he actually said, “The mindset and the skillset are just terrific.”
 Hugh: Love it. I have been hogging all the time here. I want to give Russell a chance. He listens. Russell, I notice Stewart doesn’t miss a lick. He comes back to my questions even though I forgot I asked them. Real clarity of thought here. Russell, what are you hearing? Before we switch over to talking about conflict, do you have any observations or questions on this powerful part Stewart is bringing to us?
 Russell: Thinking about alignment, it starts with ourselves. I am going to go out on a limb and guess that’s why you wrote this book: to talk about internal alignment. We all have that. When we recognize that need to align ourselves internally, then we get along better with others. What is critical to this alignment and approaching this process in this manner it stops any problems before they start. People don’t do business with entities; people do business with people. If we are not aligned or on the same page, it won’t work very well. I really appreciate all of the things that I see. This is a book I keep for myself. I have used it to put agreements together that I put together for people I do business with so that we can create a good set of expectations. We don’t want to have problems later. Although this book has been around for a while, people don’t seem to be as proactive as they could be. You look at your typical agreement, and it’s written in legalese. We don’t want to duck for cover. We want to work together and solve some problems. I love your approach in that way.
 Stewart: It’s interesting, Russell. Having practiced law for ten years, I saw all these legal books that their lawyers put their names in. In some ways, when I wrote The Book of Agreement, it was my antidote to that kind of agreement. The legal agreements I call agreements of protection. My agreements I call agreements for results. They help you get to that place you want to. Thank you. Thank you. To validate your point, this whole notion of being aligned internally, having some level of clarity, having some level of emotional intelligence, mindfulness, call it being awake, call it religion, religious people having a level of Christ consciousness, all these things are critical to being able to engage effectively with others. In some ways, having yourself out of the way a bit so that you can listen to the needs and wants of others, which is the only place you get connectivity. When I talk about listening skills, I say that listening is a skill that has you show up as a great communicator, and it’s one of the few things you can do unilaterally. You don’t need anyone else’s cooperation. All you have to do is drop your concerns and be in service to the other to find out what it is they are talking about. That is the foundational piece to create real connectivity.
 Hugh: Russell, do you have a question you are noodling on here?
 Russell: No, I was thinking about what the great problem is. A lot of us internally make assumptions. When you make assumptions, the expectations build upon that, which is what leads to conflict. I have heard people define expectations as pre-planned resentment. People don’t come to the table. They sit down, they sign an agreement, they assume that the other side knows what it is they want and what those expectations are, and there is a lot of legalese without getting to the meat and potatoes of assumptions.
 Stewart: Russell, one of the mantras when I was practicing law was when you would come to a resolution of the case, the mantra was, “If everybody is unhappy, then you have a good settlement.” I just scratched my head the first time I heard that and said, “No, there has to be a better way than this.” This is the perfect transition if you want to talk about conflict for a bit. The whole notion of resolving conflict is about when I say getting to resolution, not having an agreement everybody is unhappy with. You haven’t resolved anything.
 Going back to our initial discussion, you compromised, and you ended up in a lose-lose situation to be able to move forward. You killed a relationship. You have killed what may have been an opportunity for real productivity.
 Hugh: Amazing. This fictitious topic of conflict in the workplace. Why don’t you give us a perspective? How do you define conflict?
 Stewart: An important distinction in this conversation initially is differences versus conflict. Differences as we all know are a good thing. This leads to diversity in opinion, better solution, innovation, creativity. Difference is different perspectives. A good thing.
 Now, conflict arises when people become committed to being right, when their egos take over, and their way or the highway, or my way is the right way, or I have the truth here. That is when they get emotionally attached. That emotional attachment is what I call conflict. Difference is a good thing. Conflict is emotional attachment.
 Where that leads to in terms of thinking about conflict, it’s never about who is going to get the corner office. It’s about the individual’s emotional attachment. If you really want to resolve the conflict, and I learned this early on doing divorce meditation, deal with the emotion first, whatever that happens to be. Give people the opportunity to vent and get that emotion out of their system. Then, whatever they were fighting about, it almost seems silly. When people have the opportunity to talk about the emotion that was hanging them up.
 Or another way of looking at that is you can think of conflict as oppositional. People are gripped in emotion. If we were all emotionally mature and evolved, when something was not working, you could just say to each other, “This isn’t working, is it?” We both go, “No, it’s not.” Where do we want to go together? Where do we want to go together in the future? As opposed to processing this conflict, let’s create a new agreement. Whatever we think we have by way of agreement is not working. Let’s create a new one prospectively for where we want to go together from this point forward. Otherwise, we keep dragging the baggage and the cost of conflict with us moment to moment, and the cash register is raining on that cost. So that’s a frame, a way to think about it.
 Yeah, operating on assumptions and crossed expectations is the greatest cause of conflict in organizations. Greatest cause of conflict. Hugh, you look like you want to say something.
 Hugh: I do find it pretty much in any organization. It’s more prevalent when people aren’t willing or able to confront the facts. We have spun confront to be a toxic thing when it really means with your front. What I also learned in studying the work of Murray Bowen is that you approach conflict directly and calmly and factually. If you got your agreement form, we have got the renegotiation piece in there. We don’t think we can do that. We have made a plan, so we have to work the plan. Wait a minute. Something is wrong. This renegotiation piece, it would occur to me is a part of way to move through conflict.
 Stewart: Critical piece. Just to validate this notion about confronting. Intel, which has been a pretty successful organization over the years, they actually characterize their culture as one of constructive confrontation, constructive conversation. We tackle what is off in terms of alignment. We want to be in that place of getting back to alignment. The renegotiation is that piece. As you know, people sometimes get attached to being right or their way, especially when the clarity of expectation was not set correctly at the front end with a good, solid agreement of the kind I might help facilitate or the kind that you use.
 Hugh: Back to the relationship piece. What I find happens, and we had a guest a couple months ago from Australia who has a brilliant tool called the Conversations game. People are able to take down a mask and talk about things they really didn’t think they would talk about. People who were enemies asked each other for their phone numbers. Part of it is disarming people by leading them into having conversations of substance rather than the ones we think we ought to have. We learn about the other person. There is this relationship building. That is what is so good about my definition of consensus: an agreement that is worked out in a group process, but is backed by relationship. If you have gone through your agreement, your tenth point is you are in agreement because you know each other by then. Speak to the relationship piece of this moving through conflict. We write the agreement; how do we keep it active instead of a piece of paper we file away?
 Stewart: Great. First of all, it’s not 100 pages. It’s probably two or three. As you see from all the agreements in the book.
 Two, in terms of the relationship piece, people do get emotional. We have different perspectives. We have different observations. We have different feelings because we are unique individual biological machines. We get emotional. Our emotions get triggered. You need to give people the context in which they have the opportunity to get those up and out of their system. In my conversational model for resolving conflict, there are two ways in which that is done. One, people get to tell their stories about the situation, which is a narrative, an open-ended question.
 Then there is a specific set of questions to move people down a little bit deeper, to make sure what is tied up on the inside actually comes out. It’s almost like there is not the truth of what the stories the people hold is, but you need to give them the opportunity to get it out and clear it a bit so then they can resume the positive relationship moving forward in the future. I saw this with couples, which is where I learned, and the emotions do not run so high in organizations. But I saw couples get out of them and given the opportunity to realize, Oh, that was my husband. That was my wife. That was my partner. That was my mate. That was my lover. How have I gotten to the point where I have created them as such a monster by the noise in my own head? They were doing the best they could. That’s what most people realize in this process. The other person was not intentionally trying to be hurtful, but they were trying to do the best they can. We all know we are living in a very fast-paced soup that the military of all places, the U.S. military, has defined as we live in a VUCA environment. It is volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. This is the soup we are trying to transact in. People get to see and realize they were doing the best that they could now, so what is our relationship going forward?
 Hugh: This is so synergistic with what we teach, isn’t it, Russell?
 Russell: I thought so. Very much so. As we move through this process, it’s taking the You statements out of what you say to people. That’s critical. This is a place, and I know that when you talk about marketing, people want to address You statements and talk about the value for the people you are serving. When it comes to conflict though, You statements can escalate it. It’s backing away from those things and really setting a frame where people want to cooperate, they want to resolve things, and they don’t want to make it personal. There is a skill, and we will probably address it in the personal skills, that for separated people from behavior or from statements. That is critical to creating a place where you got an environment or friend where you want to come to agreement.
 Stewart: Critical. We have all seen it where you have major breakdowns on a business side, and people realize, Geez, there is too much profit here. We have to make this work. I did a program a number of years ago for a nonprofit private adoption agency. It was a partnership between a county child welfare agency and this adoption agency. What the adoption agency did is they got kids who were considered unadoptable up to speed so they could be placed in permanent homes. The consequences for a kid being emancipated when they are still in foster care and don’t have permanent adoptive care are huge. I got Masters in Social Work on both sides, and it was almost like central casting. I am working in a room where I have posters of the kids all around. The bottom line was I kept trying to get them to realize, and they got it, that working together is absolutely essential because there is a larger benefit here. People realize that. To have a programmatic way of moving through the difference in conflict. My goal was to get it so that it wasn’t just an agreement on the surface, but people would have a context in which to cleanse that emotion. They would resolve that emotion. That emotion wouldn’t linger going forward. As they could actually have real alignment. The technical term I would use is there was no longer any chatter.
 Hugh: As you are working through this, you referred to some skills. Stewart, what are the critical interpersonal skills that one must pay attention to and embrace?
 Stewart: This whole area of emotional intelligence, which has become a buzz word these days. Self-knowledge, having some knowledge of who you are and self-awareness. What’s going on inside of you at any moment in time. Self-regulation. Capacity to manage your own behavior and your own emotion. Self-motivation. Knowledge of what’s important to you, which is like a strategic element of emotional intelligence. Empathy. Care and concern for others. I go back to my electronic signature. People use it all the time. It’s a couplet from Longfellow, “If you knew the secret history of those you would like to punish, you would find a sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all in your hostility.” Very powerful. Standing in another’s shoes. And the skills of speaking from the I perspective or I statements, as Russell mentioned earlier. Listening skills as a critical skill. Being able to appreciate and understand that the operating system of the human biological machine over there is different than the operating system in this human biological machine. Not good or bad, it’s just the way it is. Trying to be more audience-centric in our conversation. Think about who it is we are speaking to. Otherwise, we are just talking to ourselves. So those are probably the most critical pieces.
 Hugh: Many leaders aren’t aware of the impact and influence they have in the culture. Self-awareness is something that I see a lot of leaders struggle with. You probably serve as a confidential advisor to leaders. We call it different things. I choose not to use the word “coach” or :consultant.” It’s around that mentoring/coaching/consulting people, and helping people discover some of these blind spots. What is your opinion on successful leaders having an advisor of some sort?
 Stewart: It’s critical because leaders are working alone. If they are at the top of the pyramid, or as Max Dupree would say, at the bottom of the pyramid, I am here to serve everybody else. But essentially, it’s in all literature that leaders are working alone. To have someone they can confide in and talk about their own insecurities, it’s a critical piece. The self-awareness is- When I am teaching, I always say my goal is to become a more audience-centric, emotionally intelligent, conscious communicator, when I am teaching communications skills. By conscious communicator, you thought through in some ways the impact of what you are saying and doing on other people.
 Another one I left out is nonverbal. The awareness of your nonverbal skills. As we all know, so much of our communication, somewhere between 60-90% is nonverbal. To be aware that people are picking up messages from you. To be mindful about the presence that you bring. It’s so important. Always having two-way communication, or as I like to say, communication happens when you establish shared meaning. Broadcasting messages is not communication. It’s broadcasting messages. There is a big difference. Communication is when you have a back and forth, at least to a shared meaning and a common understanding.
 Hugh: It is a lost art in some places. We are in a high-tech world where people send out data assuming that is communication. I appreciate your reframing of that. In 31 years of working with groups, the subject of communication always comes out, lack thereof. It’s like when Barry used to say is you perceive happiness, it eludes you. It’s almost the same with communication. When you focus on communication, it eludes you, when really it’s a byproduct of building relationships and being clear on our agreements, our purposes, our expectations. Within your strategy and implementation of your strategy, communication happens. You have demonstrated in this call today really good listening skills. That is top in being a conductor. We impact the culture by what we do, and the visual part is huge. One of the trainers of conductors says, “What they see is what you get.” The impact we have in that self-awareness is a huge one. I appreciate that list of skills. Good leaders are always working on those, aren’t they?
 Stewart: Always. It’s the whole notion of lifelong learning. After each interaction, you have the level of mindfulness to do a self-assessment. How did I do? How might have I been better at doing that? It’s always about creating relationships. Always. Always.
 One of the things I wanted to say in terms of the context you guys operate in, the religious and nonprofit organizations, in those institutions, it takes an additional degree of focus to some sense. Why? Because people have a different sense of self. By that I mean there is some element of—and I don’t say this in a negative way—righteousness. We are engaging and working on a good cause. We are working for something positive and of value. When it comes to interpersonal relationships, that righteousness can have a tendency to get in the way, which I am sure you have experienced over time. This is where these skills become important in those contexts.
 There is something else I wanted to say in response to what you said, Hugh. It left my mind. The thought drifted off into the universe. Maybe it will come back before we’re done.
 Hugh: I am very fond of people who can encapsulate things. As I am thinking through all of what you’re talking about, the leader impacts people. We’re anxious. It spreads throughout the community. Richard Rohr, author and founder of OFM, says, “Hurting people hurt people. Transformed people transform people.” It would occur to me working through the system that you have created, which is not really difficult, but is pretty profound in its simplicity and directness and the impact that it has.
 Stewart: It’s really interesting. I was just working with a group of senior scientists. I knew they would love this. This whole model I am talking about I have it drawn down to half a page schematic. Each one of the critical elements. As I like to say with so many things in this area, all of the things we are talking about are simple, but not easy. Simple to understand. This is not rocket science, but it’s not easy to do. There is the one-page-
 Hugh: Cycle of Resolution. What book is that in?
 Stewart: It’s in Getting to Resolution. Page 248.
 Hugh: You can find out more about Stewart at ResolutionWorks.com. I would imagine your books are listed somewhere on your website, and possibly on Amazon as well.
 Stewart: Both of those places.
 Hugh: I will give you a chance to have a parting thought with people. What would you like to leave people with? Russell will close out this interview.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 Stewart, what would you like to leave people with?
 Stewart: The importance of relationships. The book Getting to Resolution might have been called Getting to Relationship. That is the critical piece. Alignment, moving through differences and conflict, always back to that place of relationship. That is where productivity comes from. That is where creating value comes from. Critical piece. It only happens as a result of, Russell pointed out, being centered in yourself, having alignment within yourself, and then when you have that foundation, you can use all the tools and techniques I talked about to connect with others.
 I wanted to thank both of you for the wonderful quality of your presence in this interview. My pleasure to contribute to the community you guys are serving.
 Russell: Thank you. Folks, take a trip over to ResolutionWorks.com. There is lots of material here. The principles are powerful. The power is in the simplicity. It’s not easy. What separates what Stewart is doing from a lot of other things out there that you see is that it’s not just dealing with situations or agreements in and of themselves, but it’s creating a framework where we can talk to one another and continue to have open conversations together to keep things on track. We are all different. We will not agree on every little thing. If we have a process where we honor one another, the breakouts will disappear. That’s a wonderful thing.
 Hugh: Thank you, guys. Such wonderful material. Stewart Levine, again, a pleasure to be with you.
 Stewart: My pleasure to be back in connection, Hugh. Thank you for inviting me.
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        <![CDATA[<h1>Powerful Collaborations with Stewart Levine</h1> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Russell, here we are again. Week after week, we have amazing people. Yet today, this is a friend from years ago. I sent out an email asking people if they wanted to contribute to the magazine or be on the show. Immediately, Stewart Levine responded. How are things in Denver today, Russell?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> It’s a little cloudy, a little bit cooler than it has been. But we are in the fall season. All is well otherwise. Welcome, Stewart. Thank you for coming.</p> <p><strong>Stewart Levine:</strong> My pleasure to be with you guys today. I will be landing in Denver early tomorrow morning and then driving up to Vail for some American Bar Association meetings. Interesting, because I have a new book called <em>Becoming the Best Lawyer You Can Be: How to Maintain Physical, Emotional, Spiritual, and Mental Health.</em> The American Bar Association, 27 authors, I curated it and edited it. I’m actually very excited about it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Look at that. Let’s back up. I’m sure there is people watching who want to know who this guy is anyway. Why don’t you tell them, Stewart?</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> Thank you, Hugh. Here’s the short synopsis. I practiced law for about 10 years in a reasonably traditional number of contexts, starting off in the New Jersey Attorney General’s office. Then I got tired of fighting with people. And it was before the whole ADR, Alternative Dispute Resolution, movement came on board. So I decided to do a little career change. I spent six years inside of AT&amp;T as they were going through huge organizational change and transformation with major law firms as my clients, not in a legal sense, but in an account representative sense.</p> <p>On a parallel track, I started divorce meditation because I wanted to use the skills I had developed as a lawyer. I learned a lot about communication, about collaboration, about conflict resolution working with couples getting divorced because no one is in worse shape than that. Over time, I moved that work over into working with organizations, teens, organizational transformational cultural change work, individual coaching. For the last 30 years, that essentially is what I have been doing.</p> <p>The last 10 years, I have learned a ton of teaching programs and all the soft skills, relationship skills on behalf of the American Management Association. I have done a number of collaborations over time with various other individuals, all in the organizational space. That is the short synopsis, except I have also written a couple of best-selling books. The first one is called <em>Getting to Resolution: Turning Conflict into Collaboration.</em> It was endorsed by Stephen Covey. It was named one of the best business books of 1998, second edition came out in 2008. A follow-up called <em>The Book of Agreement: 10 Essential Elements for Getting the Results You Want.</em> That was endorsed by a number of notable people. That’s the short answer. You and I met in the context of both being on the faculty of an organization called CEO Space. It’s a pleasure to see your face again, Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s a pleasure. Thank you for stepping up when I sent out that probing email. Actually, we were standing in those groups out in the lobby, and someone was addressing the group. I whipped out my draft of my workbook, <em>Dealing with High Performance Teams,</em> and I said, “Would you do me a favor and review this? Tell me what it’s missing.” You sent me an email saying there was nothing about agreements in here. So I asked if I could quote your book of the <em>10</em><em>Essential</em><em>Elements</em><em>of</em><em>Agreements</em>so I could give you attribution. I refer to those all the time. I send people to Amazon to get that book. It’s really a treasure.</p> <p>We are speaking to people who are in the social benefit/for-purpose sector. They are clergy running a church or synagogue. They are executive directors running a for-purpose community-based organization. They are running a membership organization. I see a lot of conflict because people haven’t been really good in creating this agreement. They don’t write it down. They haven’t decided how we are going to define expectations. I would guess, we’re talking about collaboration and alignment today. I would think one tenet of alignment is to be able to have your expectations written down. Where do you start with alignment? What is the starting point?</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> Sure. Just to frame this, what I always say to people is you can pay me now or pay me later. If you pay me now, you’ll pay me a lot less. Essentially what that means is spend a little time on the front end, making sure you have alignment, making sure you have shared expectations. Otherwise, the root of conflict is when people have different understandings of what they are doing together, and they have a different sense of metrics in terms of how we are going to measure whether or not we were successful. Critical piece is spending time on the front end. <em>The</em><em>Book</em><em>of</em><em>Agreement</em>contains about 30 models of agreements for getting to a place of alignment. Those ten elements are actually so good I put them on the back of my business card. It’s not like I’m trying to keep any secrets. I am happy to give them away.</p> <p>You start off by having a conversation. What is our intent and vision? In other words, what are we doing together? What’s our intent and vision? By the way, as a little aside, most legal agreements are something that I refer to as agreements for protection. What if this goes wrong, and what if that goes wrong? There is not a huge amount of time spent on what we are trying to achieve here. That was the perspective that I took. What is our intent and vision?</p> <p>What is the role that each one of us is going to play? In other words, what is each party or person responsible for?</p> <p>What are the specific promises that each person makes? In other words, what is each person going to do to bring that vision into reality? How are they going to contribute?</p> <p>What is the value that each person receives? Why? Because if people don’t receive, if they are not getting value out of any form of collaboration, they will stop contributing. They will stop performing.</p> <p>Metrics. How will you measure whether or not you were successful? Get it to a place of objectivity.</p> <p>Concerns and fears. People often have concerns and fears that they don’t want to talk about. They are shy. What I like to do is put this in the model. No, this is something you have to talk about.</p> <p>Renegotiation. The idea that when we begin, we know what we know, but we don’t know what we don’t know. As we work together, moving down the road, we discover things, and we constantly need to be mindful of renegotiating that agreement to make sure we are back in a place of alignment.</p> <p>Consequences or benefits. What’s at stake here? What’s really at stake in this collaboration for the individuals involved, for the organization, for the community that is being served in the world of nonprofit and benefit organizations?</p> <p>Conflict resolution. We know that things happen. How are we going to resolve the conflicts and differences when they come up?</p> <p>After you have talked about those nine things, you look at the other person or the group and go, Yes or no. This is a project that I am engaged with. What I like to say is if you got good alignment, you don’t have to worry about loose panels flapping off the rocket ship that you are trying to get to take off.</p> <p>I’m not sure where that came from. A little feedback from the universe. That’s okay. The last element, number ten, is agreement and trust. Are we aligned? This is what is essential to do at the front end. People who start to use this and discover it think it’s like sliced bread. It’s just amazing, the simple ten element model, what it can create and what it can save you in the long run.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. I call it paying the upfront price. You quoted the oil filter pay me now or pay me later. That’s a great commercial. It’s so true. It’s the price upfront is far cheaper. That’s a brilliant model. What happens when you get to #10 is you really know that you have an agreement.</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> You know you have an agreement, or you know you don’t, which is of equal value. You know that Okay, this is, we’re not in alignment. I don’t think we can get to alignment. This is not a good project to work on together.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I don’t know if you know I do lots of group board meetings and staff meetings. I am fundamentally a music connector who helps build ensembles, which is synergy in group interaction. In the South, y’all can tell I’m in the South, we say none of us is as smart as all of us. How do you get the best collective thinking without going into groupthink? My answer to that is we teach people how to build consensus. I find most people confuse consensus and compromise when they are the exact opposite. A consensus is a win-win, and compromise is lose-lose. What dawns on me as you are describing that model which I have read so many times is that prompts people to talk in a different way, discover new things, and come to some sort of consensus that whether we can work together or we can’t. Is consensus part of alignment?</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> Absolutely. Consensus is essentially alignment. I’m glad you mentioned the word “compromise.” You said it exactly correctly, Hugh. Compromise means to lose-lose. People giving up what’s important to them. Consensus is we are all in agreement, we are all in alignment, we are all moving forward toward the same things with the same end result in mind.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s very misunderstood. What setting it is. A corporate setting, a boardroom, or anything like that. I think it’s really misunderstood. It’s important that we can build that synergy if we are going to work together as teams. Why is alignment essential in today’s world? Why don’t you go to D.C. and teach them? You can skip that second part.</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> I want to go back a second, and I will come to your question. I want to punctuate this point, Hugh. What also happens in the process of having this conversation is you start to develop a real deeper relationship. I don’t mean an intimate personal relationship; I mean a working relationship. And as we all know, when you have relationship with people you are working with, it’s much easier to resolve differences, which will inherently come up. The only reason people end up in lawsuits is when relationships break down. That’s the only time they resort to those 100-page agreements that attorneys prepare, when the relationship breaks down. Otherwise, they work it out; they want to keep working together.</p> <p>Having said that, why is this more important in today’s world? I think it’s more important in today’s world because we have a lot less face-to-face interaction. So much of what we’re doing transactionally is virtual. In those kinds of situations, it’s easier to be a jerk. And people don’t consciously spend time to build relationships. This is a way to do it. That’s one piece.</p> <p>The second piece is it’s too costly when things break down. When you end up in conflict and any kind of lawsuits or legal process, you can’t afford it. You can’t afford to waste that time removing so quick.</p> <p>Three is if you look out at the world, it seems that there is a movement toward a much more values-based business and organizational culture. Much more. Because people realize what goes around comes around. You can’t treat transactions as a one-shot deal. We have to be more relational and values-based. Even the millennial generation coming up, for them, it’s real important to be part of a mission-driven organization, whatever that mission happens to be. To frame for-profit missions as having a “missionary” value. Business organizations in some sense are becoming a place where people get in culture. Business, nonprofits, in that context, it’s where we spend so much time. Bringing values and alignment into that are critical.</p> <p>Probably more than you wanted to hear. To go back to that other question about Washington D.C., about 10 years ago, I was actually doing a two-day program for the Federal Executive Institute, which is run out of the Treasury Department. I had about 75 people for two days. At the end of the program, a bunch of Navy officers came up to me in white uniforms and said, “You need to go down the block and teach those guys in Congress.” Bottom line is, I don’t know if you remember those old jokes, “How many blanks does it take to change a light bulb?” How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, but it’s got to want to change. The guys in D.C., I use guys generically, they don’t seem to want to change. They are sitting in some old cultural model, and that’s why the rating in D.C. of the folks that we elect as representatives and our employees, the ratings are so incredibly low.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> They are. We are shaped by the culture that we have experienced and the culture we have been injected into. We don’t have to accept that. I can’t imagine what it’s like on the inside. Some of the large companies and some of the large churches I have served have a culture. You refer to this topic of conflict. Before we leave the alignment and agreement piece, what I have experienced when people have those kinds of conversations. By the way, another piece Russell and I present and attend is the Business Acceleration Summit with your cheerleader Shannon Gronich, who studied your program with you. She uses it quite well. In going through that process, there is a transformation that happens with people’s perspective, even those who want to change. There is a substantive transformation that happens. Give us the story. Am I right? Does that happen with people exploring those options? If so, is there an example without giving away names of the kind of transformation that happens when people can have a different kind of conversation?</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> It creates connection. Connectivity. To me, human connectivity is the key to productivity. That sounds like a rhyme. Connectivity is the key to productivity. It is. If you think about high performance teams, what was it about the teams that made them great? The human relationships. The high levels of trust. When you create alignment, that is naturally going to happen. For religious organizations, go back to the words of Christ. Wherever two or more of you are gathered, there is one. When you create alignment and connection, you create a different kind of energy. It’s there. It’s there.</p> <p>One other thing I wanted to say about this, Hugh. You mentioned the word “culture.” I do cultural transformation work. People often ask for that. It’s a very amorphous concept. When you think about what is culture in an organization, culture is actually held in relationships. Relationships are a function of agreements, implicit and explicit. I say if we can make our agreements explicit, we can change the culture. By having agreements with how we will be with each other, how we will treat each other. I have done this in many organizations over time. It always comes up value-based because people use their highest aspirations when they are creating these kinds of agreements. Culture. Huge piece.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Let’s focus in a minute. As a conductor, I create high performance cultures in choirs and orchestras. If you are familiar, the person at the front influences others. I have a lot of leaders say, “I want other people to change.” I point out, “That ain’t gonna happen unless you change.” I don’t know if you’re familiar with the work of Murray Bowen, the psychiatrist who has a whole leadership methodology. Bowen’s wisdom is if you want to change people on your team, you change yourself, and they reflect that. What you are talking about is the vulnerability of the leader willing to open their brains to something new.</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> Jim Kouzes, favorite leadership consultant, and his partner Barry Posner. Talk about as one of the key elements of leadership modeling the way. That is a validation of what you just said. Modeling the way. Change yourself. Show others how you want them to be. Critical piece.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Amen.</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> Amen. It’s interesting. I did a project for a state government agency a few years ago. You asked for an example. They were implementing a new fiscal system to the entire state. It was coming out of the controller’s office. You can imagine the political, the legacy systems. It was a group of professional accountants who were charged with the pilot program. I got a call from someone who had seen me present about 10 years ago for the Project Management Institutes in the Greater Bay Area of San Francisco, which is where I am. I got in there and used the models that we’re talking about to get to the bottom of what conflicts were between the various units and to create an agreement about how it was that these folks were going to move forward with the level of human alignment to get this first pilot off the ground and in the implementation off the ground. It’s amazing what these ten elements of agreement can do. It’s a systematic way of creating an activity, alignment, a shift in culture, how to get humans hooked up and connected.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m coming back. We are champions of transformational leadership. That is a transformational mindset here of people being aware. I think what happens when I have seen leaders go through steps like which you are proposing, there is a transformation of their knowledge and their being. They see the world differently when they start having conversations.</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> I call that mindset “resolutionary thinking.” Resolutionary thinking. Mindset is certainly something that I talk about. As a matter of fact, in my first book, when Stephen Covey endorsed it, he actually said, “The mindset and the skillset are just terrific.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. I have been hogging all the time here. I want to give Russell a chance. He listens. Russell, I notice Stewart doesn’t miss a lick. He comes back to my questions even though I forgot I asked them. Real clarity of thought here. Russell, what are you hearing? Before we switch over to talking about conflict, do you have any observations or questions on this powerful part Stewart is bringing to us?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thinking about alignment, it starts with ourselves. I am going to go out on a limb and guess that’s why you wrote this book: to talk about internal alignment. We all have that. When we recognize that need to align ourselves internally, then we get along better with others. What is critical to this alignment and approaching this process in this manner it stops any problems before they start. People don’t do business with entities; people do business with people. If we are not aligned or on the same page, it won’t work very well. I really appreciate all of the things that I see. This is a book I keep for myself. I have used it to put agreements together that I put together for people I do business with so that we can create a good set of expectations. We don’t want to have problems later. Although this book has been around for a while, people don’t seem to be as proactive as they could be. You look at your typical agreement, and it’s written in legalese. We don’t want to duck for cover. We want to work together and solve some problems. I love your approach in that way.</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> It’s interesting, Russell. Having practiced law for ten years, I saw all these legal books that their lawyers put their names in. In some ways, when I wrote <em>The Book of Agreement,</em> it was my antidote to that kind of agreement. The legal agreements I call agreements of protection. My agreements I call agreements for results. They help you get to that place you want to. Thank you. Thank you. To validate your point, this whole notion of being aligned internally, having some level of clarity, having some level of emotional intelligence, mindfulness, call it being awake, call it religion, religious people having a level of Christ consciousness, all these things are critical to being able to engage effectively with others. In some ways, having yourself out of the way a bit so that you can listen to the needs and wants of others, which is the only place you get connectivity. When I talk about listening skills, I say that listening is a skill that has you show up as a great communicator, and it’s one of the few things you can do unilaterally. You don’t need anyone else’s cooperation. All you have to do is drop your concerns and be in service to the other to find out what it is they are talking about. That is the foundational piece to create real connectivity.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, do you have a question you are noodling on here?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> No, I was thinking about what the great problem is. A lot of us internally make assumptions. When you make assumptions, the expectations build upon that, which is what leads to conflict. I have heard people define expectations as pre-planned resentment. People don’t come to the table. They sit down, they sign an agreement, they assume that the other side knows what it is they want and what those expectations are, and there is a lot of legalese without getting to the meat and potatoes of assumptions.</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> Russell, one of the mantras when I was practicing law was when you would come to a resolution of the case, the mantra was, “If everybody is unhappy, then you have a good settlement.” I just scratched my head the first time I heard that and said, “No, there has to be a better way than this.” This is the perfect transition if you want to talk about conflict for a bit. The whole notion of resolving conflict is about when I say getting to resolution, not having an agreement everybody is unhappy with. You haven’t resolved anything.</p> <p>Going back to our initial discussion, you compromised, and you ended up in a lose-lose situation to be able to move forward. You killed a relationship. You have killed what may have been an opportunity for real productivity.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Amazing. This fictitious topic of conflict in the workplace. Why don’t you give us a perspective? How do you define conflict?</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> An important distinction in this conversation initially is differences versus conflict. Differences as we all know are a good thing. This leads to diversity in opinion, better solution, innovation, creativity. Difference is different perspectives. A good thing.</p> <p>Now, conflict arises when people become committed to being right, when their egos take over, and their way or the highway, or my way is the right way, or I have the truth here. That is when they get emotionally attached. That emotional attachment is what I call conflict. Difference is a good thing. Conflict is emotional attachment.</p> <p>Where that leads to in terms of thinking about conflict, it’s never about who is going to get the corner office. It’s about the individual’s emotional attachment. If you really want to resolve the conflict, and I learned this early on doing divorce meditation, deal with the emotion first, whatever that happens to be. Give people the opportunity to vent and get that emotion out of their system. Then, whatever they were fighting about, it almost seems silly. When people have the opportunity to talk about the emotion that was hanging them up.</p> <p>Or another way of looking at that is you can think of conflict as oppositional. People are gripped in emotion. If we were all emotionally mature and evolved, when something was not working, you could just say to each other, “This isn’t working, is it?” We both go, “No, it’s not.” Where do we want to go together? Where do we want to go together in the future? As opposed to processing this conflict, let’s create a new agreement. Whatever we think we have by way of agreement is not working. Let’s create a new one prospectively for where we want to go together from this point forward. Otherwise, we keep dragging the baggage and the cost of conflict with us moment to moment, and the cash register is raining on that cost. So that’s a frame, a way to think about it.</p> <p>Yeah, operating on assumptions and crossed expectations is the greatest cause of conflict in organizations. Greatest cause of conflict. Hugh, you look like you want to say something.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I do find it pretty much in any organization. It’s more prevalent when people aren’t willing or able to confront the facts. We have spun confront to be a toxic thing when it really means with your front. What I also learned in studying the work of Murray Bowen is that you approach conflict directly and calmly and factually. If you got your agreement form, we have got the renegotiation piece in there. We don’t think we can do that. We have made a plan, so we have to work the plan. Wait a minute. Something is wrong. This renegotiation piece, it would occur to me is a part of way to move through conflict.</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> Critical piece. Just to validate this notion about confronting. Intel, which has been a pretty successful organization over the years, they actually characterize their culture as one of constructive confrontation, constructive conversation. We tackle what is off in terms of alignment. We want to be in that place of getting back to alignment. The renegotiation is that piece. As you know, people sometimes get attached to being right or their way, especially when the clarity of expectation was not set correctly at the front end with a good, solid agreement of the kind I might help facilitate or the kind that you use.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Back to the relationship piece. What I find happens, and we had a guest a couple months ago from Australia who has a brilliant tool called the Conversations game. People are able to take down a mask and talk about things they really didn’t think they would talk about. People who were enemies asked each other for their phone numbers. Part of it is disarming people by leading them into having conversations of substance rather than the ones we think we ought to have. We learn about the other person. There is this relationship building. That is what is so good about my definition of consensus: an agreement that is worked out in a group process, but is backed by relationship. If you have gone through your agreement, your tenth point is you are in agreement because you know each other by then. Speak to the relationship piece of this moving through conflict. We write the agreement; how do we keep it active instead of a piece of paper we file away?</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> Great. First of all, it’s not 100 pages. It’s probably two or three. As you see from all the agreements in the book.</p> <p>Two, in terms of the relationship piece, people do get emotional. We have different perspectives. We have different observations. We have different feelings because we are unique individual biological machines. We get emotional. Our emotions get triggered. You need to give people the context in which they have the opportunity to get those up and out of their system. In my conversational model for resolving conflict, there are two ways in which that is done. One, people get to tell their stories about the situation, which is a narrative, an open-ended question.</p> <p>Then there is a specific set of questions to move people down a little bit deeper, to make sure what is tied up on the inside actually comes out. It’s almost like there is not the truth of what the stories the people hold is, but you need to give them the opportunity to get it out and clear it a bit so then they can resume the positive relationship moving forward in the future. I saw this with couples, which is where I learned, and the emotions do not run so high in organizations. But I saw couples get out of them and given the opportunity to realize, Oh, that was my husband. That was my wife. That was my partner. That was my mate. That was my lover. How have I gotten to the point where I have created them as such a monster by the noise in my own head? They were doing the best they could. That’s what most people realize in this process. The other person was not intentionally trying to be hurtful, but they were trying to do the best they can. We all know we are living in a very fast-paced soup that the military of all places, the U.S. military, has defined as we live in a VUCA environment. It is volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. This is the soup we are trying to transact in. People get to see and realize they were doing the best that they could now, so what is our relationship going forward?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is so synergistic with what we teach, isn’t it, Russell?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I thought so. Very much so. As we move through this process, it’s taking the You statements out of what you say to people. That’s critical. This is a place, and I know that when you talk about marketing, people want to address You statements and talk about the value for the people you are serving. When it comes to conflict though, You statements can escalate it. It’s backing away from those things and really setting a frame where people want to cooperate, they want to resolve things, and they don’t want to make it personal. There is a skill, and we will probably address it in the personal skills, that for separated people from behavior or from statements. That is critical to creating a place where you got an environment or friend where you want to come to agreement.</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> Critical. We have all seen it where you have major breakdowns on a business side, and people realize, Geez, there is too much profit here. We have to make this work. I did a program a number of years ago for a nonprofit private adoption agency. It was a partnership between a county child welfare agency and this adoption agency. What the adoption agency did is they got kids who were considered unadoptable up to speed so they could be placed in permanent homes. The consequences for a kid being emancipated when they are still in foster care and don’t have permanent adoptive care are huge. I got Masters in Social Work on both sides, and it was almost like central casting. I am working in a room where I have posters of the kids all around. The bottom line was I kept trying to get them to realize, and they got it, that working together is absolutely essential because there is a larger benefit here. People realize that. To have a programmatic way of moving through the difference in conflict. My goal was to get it so that it wasn’t just an agreement on the surface, but people would have a context in which to cleanse that emotion. They would resolve that emotion. That emotion wouldn’t linger going forward. As they could actually have real alignment. The technical term I would use is there was no longer any chatter.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> As you are working through this, you referred to some skills. Stewart, what are the critical interpersonal skills that one must pay attention to and embrace?</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> This whole area of emotional intelligence, which has become a buzz word these days. Self-knowledge, having some knowledge of who you are and self-awareness. What’s going on inside of you at any moment in time. Self-regulation. Capacity to manage your own behavior and your own emotion. Self-motivation. Knowledge of what’s important to you, which is like a strategic element of emotional intelligence. Empathy. Care and concern for others. I go back to my electronic signature. People use it all the time. It’s a couplet from Longfellow, “If you knew the secret history of those you would like to punish, you would find a sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all in your hostility.” Very powerful. Standing in another’s shoes. And the skills of speaking from the I perspective or I statements, as Russell mentioned earlier. Listening skills as a critical skill. Being able to appreciate and understand that the operating system of the human biological machine over there is different than the operating system in this human biological machine. Not good or bad, it’s just the way it is. Trying to be more audience-centric in our conversation. Think about who it is we are speaking to. Otherwise, we are just talking to ourselves. So those are probably the most critical pieces.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Many leaders aren’t aware of the impact and influence they have in the culture. Self-awareness is something that I see a lot of leaders struggle with. You probably serve as a confidential advisor to leaders. We call it different things. I choose not to use the word “coach” or :consultant.” It’s around that mentoring/coaching/consulting people, and helping people discover some of these blind spots. What is your opinion on successful leaders having an advisor of some sort?</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> It’s critical because leaders are working alone. If they are at the top of the pyramid, or as Max Dupree would say, at the bottom of the pyramid, I am here to serve everybody else. But essentially, it’s in all literature that leaders are working alone. To have someone they can confide in and talk about their own insecurities, it’s a critical piece. The self-awareness is- When I am teaching, I always say my goal is to become a more audience-centric, emotionally intelligent, conscious communicator, when I am teaching communications skills. By conscious communicator, you thought through in some ways the impact of what you are saying and doing on other people.</p> <p>Another one I left out is nonverbal. The awareness of your nonverbal skills. As we all know, so much of our communication, somewhere between 60-90% is nonverbal. To be aware that people are picking up messages from you. To be mindful about the presence that you bring. It’s so important. Always having two-way communication, or as I like to say, communication happens when you establish shared meaning. Broadcasting messages is not communication. It’s broadcasting messages. There is a big difference. Communication is when you have a back and forth, at least to a shared meaning and a common understanding.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It is a lost art in some places. We are in a high-tech world where people send out data assuming that is communication. I appreciate your reframing of that. In 31 years of working with groups, the subject of communication always comes out, lack thereof. It’s like when Barry used to say is you perceive happiness, it eludes you. It’s almost the same with communication. When you focus on communication, it eludes you, when really it’s a byproduct of building relationships and being clear on our agreements, our purposes, our expectations. Within your strategy and implementation of your strategy, communication happens. You have demonstrated in this call today really good listening skills. That is top in being a conductor. We impact the culture by what we do, and the visual part is huge. One of the trainers of conductors says, “What they see is what you get.” The impact we have in that self-awareness is a huge one. I appreciate that list of skills. Good leaders are always working on those, aren’t they?</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> Always. It’s the whole notion of lifelong learning. After each interaction, you have the level of mindfulness to do a self-assessment. How did I do? How might have I been better at doing that? It’s always about creating relationships. Always. Always.</p> <p>One of the things I wanted to say in terms of the context you guys operate in, the religious and nonprofit organizations, in those institutions, it takes an additional degree of focus to some sense. Why? Because people have a different sense of self. By that I mean there is some element of—and I don’t say this in a negative way—righteousness. We are engaging and working on a good cause. We are working for something positive and of value. When it comes to interpersonal relationships, that righteousness can have a tendency to get in the way, which I am sure you have experienced over time. This is where these skills become important in those contexts.</p> <p>There is something else I wanted to say in response to what you said, Hugh. It left my mind. The thought drifted off into the universe. Maybe it will come back before we’re done.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I am very fond of people who can encapsulate things. As I am thinking through all of what you’re talking about, the leader impacts people. We’re anxious. It spreads throughout the community. Richard Rohr, author and founder of OFM, says, “Hurting people hurt people. Transformed people transform people.” It would occur to me working through the system that you have created, which is not really difficult, but is pretty profound in its simplicity and directness and the impact that it has.</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> It’s really interesting. I was just working with a group of senior scientists. I knew they would love this. This whole model I am talking about I have it drawn down to half a page schematic. Each one of the critical elements. As I like to say with so many things in this area, all of the things we are talking about are simple, but not easy. Simple to understand. This is not rocket science, but it’s not easy to do. There is the one-page-</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Cycle of Resolution. What book is that in?</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> It’s in <em>Getting to Resolution.</em> Page 248.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You can find out more about Stewart at ResolutionWorks.com. I would imagine your books are listed somewhere on your website, and possibly on Amazon as well.</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> Both of those places.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I will give you a chance to have a parting thought with people. What would you like to leave people with? Russell will close out this interview.</p> <p><strong>*Sponsor message from Wordsprint*</strong></p> <p>Stewart, what would you like to leave people with?</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> The importance of relationships. The book <em>Getting to Resolution</em> might have been called <em>Getting to Relationship.</em> That is the critical piece. Alignment, moving through differences and conflict, always back to that place of relationship. That is where productivity comes from. That is where creating value comes from. Critical piece. It only happens as a result of, Russell pointed out, being centered in yourself, having alignment within yourself, and then when you have that foundation, you can use all the tools and techniques I talked about to connect with others.</p> <p>I wanted to thank both of you for the wonderful quality of your presence in this interview. My pleasure to contribute to the community you guys are serving.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thank you. Folks, take a trip over to ResolutionWorks.com. There is lots of material here. The principles are powerful. The power is in the simplicity. It’s not easy. What separates what Stewart is doing from a lot of other things out there that you see is that it’s not just dealing with situations or agreements in and of themselves, but it’s creating a framework where we can talk to one another and continue to have open conversations together to keep things on track. We are all different. We will not agree on every little thing. If we have a process where we honor one another, the breakouts will disappear. That’s a wonderful thing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you, guys. Such wonderful material. Stewart Levine, again, a pleasure to be with you.</p> <p><strong>Stewart:</strong> My pleasure to be back in connection, Hugh. Thank you for inviting me.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Top 5 Best Presentation Skills  for Rocking the Virtual Stage</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/top-5-best-presentation-skills-for-rocking-the-virtual-stage</link>
      <description>Top 5 Best Presentation Skills for Rocking the Virtual Stage with Rich Bontrager

 Rich Bontrager should be dead at least three times, and yet he has defied the odds medically since birth, through a severe fire accident, liver failure, and transplant in 2017. “Trigger,” as he is commonly known, has enjoyed a 30-year career as a sports broadcaster, talk-show host, and now keynote speaker, despite being born with a horrible stutter. He also hosts a YOUTUBE channel equipping leaders and communicators Defy the odds, and host a weekly live TV show “How To Rock the Virtual Stage.” Follow him @KeynoteRich on Twitter.
 More about Rich at https://www.richbontrager.net
 The value and importance of learning how to present powerfully, purposely, and professionally on the virtual stage. Your message and mission are important, and how you present your message virtually is just as important. I can help you learn broadcast, media, and speaker skills that will transform how you present, raise awareness, and raise money.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/70d03c90-b329-11eb-9f0f-139eed46d8f7/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with with Rich Bontrager</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Top 5 Best Presentation Skills for Rocking the Virtual Stage with Rich Bontrager

 Rich Bontrager should be dead at least three times, and yet he has defied the odds medically since birth, through a severe fire accident, liver failure, and transplant in 2017. “Trigger,” as he is commonly known, has enjoyed a 30-year career as a sports broadcaster, talk-show host, and now keynote speaker, despite being born with a horrible stutter. He also hosts a YOUTUBE channel equipping leaders and communicators Defy the odds, and host a weekly live TV show “How To Rock the Virtual Stage.” Follow him @KeynoteRich on Twitter.
 More about Rich at https://www.richbontrager.net
 The value and importance of learning how to present powerfully, purposely, and professionally on the virtual stage. Your message and mission are important, and how you present your message virtually is just as important. I can help you learn broadcast, media, and speaker skills that will transform how you present, raise awareness, and raise money.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1> <strong>Top 5 Best Presentation Skills</strong><br> <strong>for Rocking the Virtual Stage</strong><br> <strong>with Rich Bontrager</strong>
</h1> <p><strong>Rich Bontrager</strong> should be dead at least three times, and yet he has defied the odds medically since birth, through a severe fire accident, liver failure, and transplant in 2017. “Trigger,” as he is commonly known, has enjoyed a 30-year career as a sports broadcaster, talk-show host, and now keynote speaker, despite being born with a horrible stutter. He also hosts a YOUTUBE channel equipping leaders and communicators Defy the odds, and host a weekly live TV show “How To Rock the Virtual Stage.” Follow him <strong><a href="https://twitter.com/KeynoteRich">@KeynoteRich</a></strong> on Twitter.</p> <p>More about Rich at <strong><a href="https://www.richbontrager.net/">https://www.richbontrager.net</a></strong></p> <p>The value and importance of learning how to present powerfully, purposely, and professionally on the virtual stage. Your message and mission are important, and how you present your message virtually is just as important. I can help you learn broadcast, media, and speaker skills that will transform how you present, raise awareness, and raise money.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>How is Fear Stealing from You?</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-is-fear-stealing-from-you</link>
      <description>How is Fear Stealing from You? Interview with Amanda Bar
 
 Amanda Bar, Founder &amp; CEO of RTB Capital Group works with entrepreneurs on mindset, strategy, problem-solving, and implementation to make more money and keep it. We provide access to essential tools, processes, professionals, training, and coaching that ignites your power and confidence from the inside out. How can RTB help you Raise the Bar and Overcome Fear and Doubt that is stealing from you?
 Whether in business or nonprofit, you are considered an entrepreneur. When starting and running an operation, there is a level of risk, regardless of the size or magnitude. In facing these risks, we must take action and what tends to happen is fear sets in and we battle beyond what we need to and give ourselves great reasons and excuses for it. I'd like to transform this natural progression and share a new way to approach fear and stepping outside of our comfort zones, from internal to external. In sharing, my goal is that we can bring great value and a few nuggets that will help someone raise the bar in their business and life.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/70ea7628-b329-11eb-9f0f-53c2d427643b/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Amanda Bar</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How is Fear Stealing from You? Interview with Amanda Bar
 
 Amanda Bar, Founder &amp; CEO of RTB Capital Group works with entrepreneurs on mindset, strategy, problem-solving, and implementation to make more money and keep it. We provide access to essential tools, processes, professionals, training, and coaching that ignites your power and confidence from the inside out. How can RTB help you Raise the Bar and Overcome Fear and Doubt that is stealing from you?
 Whether in business or nonprofit, you are considered an entrepreneur. When starting and running an operation, there is a level of risk, regardless of the size or magnitude. In facing these risks, we must take action and what tends to happen is fear sets in and we battle beyond what we need to and give ourselves great reasons and excuses for it. I'd like to transform this natural progression and share a new way to approach fear and stepping outside of our comfort zones, from internal to external. In sharing, my goal is that we can bring great value and a few nuggets that will help someone raise the bar in their business and life.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>How is Fear Stealing from You?<br> Interview with Amanda Bar</strong></h1> <p><a href="https://rtbcapitalgroup.com/"></a></p> <p><strong>Amanda Bar</strong>, Founder &amp; CEO of RTB Capital Group works with entrepreneurs on mindset, strategy, problem-solving, and implementation to make more money and keep it. We provide access to essential tools, processes, professionals, training, and coaching that ignites your power and confidence from the inside out. How can RTB help you Raise the Bar and Overcome Fear and Doubt that is stealing from you?</p> <p>Whether in business or nonprofit, you are considered an entrepreneur. When starting and running an operation, there is a level of risk, regardless of the size or magnitude. In facing these risks, we must take action and what tends to happen is fear sets in and we battle beyond what we need to and give ourselves great reasons and excuses for it. I'd like to transform this natural progression and share a new way to approach fear and stepping outside of our comfort zones, from internal to external. In sharing, my goal is that we can bring great value and a few nuggets that will help someone raise the bar in their business and life.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3626</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Creating Your Story: Raising Awareness and Attracting Support</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/creating-your-story-raising-awareness-and-attracting-support</link>
      <description>Creating Your Story: Raising Awareness and Attracting Support with Story Guide Lynn Sanders
 About Lynn Sanders in her words:
 For over thirty years, I’ve been in the business of making a difference for clients.
 My new company name, “Difference Makers Media” reinforces that intention.  I’ve trained with amazing professionals in marketing, coaching, and writing.  Now, I’m gratified to empower people and organizations with a full range of services:  Story Coaching, Strategic Writing, Marketing, and Media Promotion.  I also collaborate with a team of seasoned professionals who are committed to your success. 
 I’m the author of two children’s books:  “Social Justice:  How You Can Make A Difference,” and the best-seller, “Dancing With Tex:  The Remarkable Friendship To Save The Whooping Cranes.”  It was a thrill to be honored by The Illinois Conservation Foundation as their “2017 Conservation Author of the Year” for raising environmental awareness through my book. www.DancingWithTex.com
 When a video editor encountered a life-threatening error in the hospital, my colleagues and I created the nationally award-winning patient safety video, “Things You Should Know Before Entering The Hospital.”
 It’s a privilege to interview difference makers through my live streaming program, “The Difference Makers.”  I welcome new guests and encourage you to connect with me.
 Let’s make your stories great ones!
 More about Lynn Sanders at https://differencemakersmedia.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/711f96be-b329-11eb-9f0f-dfeb4a4d2ef6/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>with Story Guide Lynn Sanders</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Creating Your Story: Raising Awareness and Attracting Support with Story Guide Lynn Sanders
 About Lynn Sanders in her words:
 For over thirty years, I’ve been in the business of making a difference for clients.
 My new company name, “Difference Makers Media” reinforces that intention.  I’ve trained with amazing professionals in marketing, coaching, and writing.  Now, I’m gratified to empower people and organizations with a full range of services:  Story Coaching, Strategic Writing, Marketing, and Media Promotion.  I also collaborate with a team of seasoned professionals who are committed to your success. 
 I’m the author of two children’s books:  “Social Justice:  How You Can Make A Difference,” and the best-seller, “Dancing With Tex:  The Remarkable Friendship To Save The Whooping Cranes.”  It was a thrill to be honored by The Illinois Conservation Foundation as their “2017 Conservation Author of the Year” for raising environmental awareness through my book. www.DancingWithTex.com
 When a video editor encountered a life-threatening error in the hospital, my colleagues and I created the nationally award-winning patient safety video, “Things You Should Know Before Entering The Hospital.”
 It’s a privilege to interview difference makers through my live streaming program, “The Difference Makers.”  I welcome new guests and encourage you to connect with me.
 Let’s make your stories great ones!
 More about Lynn Sanders at https://differencemakersmedia.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1> Creating Your Story:<br> Raising Awareness and Attracting Support<br> with Story Guide Lynn Sanders</h1> <p>About Lynn Sanders in her words:</p> <p><strong>For over thirty years, I’ve been in the business of making a difference for clients.</strong></p> <p>My new company name, “Difference Makers Media” reinforces that intention.  I’ve trained with amazing professionals in marketing, coaching, and writing.  Now, I’m gratified to empower people and organizations with a full range of services:  Story Coaching, Strategic Writing, Marketing, and Media Promotion.  I also collaborate with a team of seasoned professionals who are committed to your success. </p> <p>I’m the author of two children’s books:  “Social Justice:  How You Can Make A Difference,” and the best-seller, “Dancing With Tex:  The Remarkable Friendship To Save The Whooping Cranes.”  It was a thrill to be honored by The Illinois Conservation Foundation as their “2017 Conservation Author of the Year” for raising environmental awareness through my book.<br> <a href="http://www.dancingwithtex.com/">www.DancingWithTex.com</a></p> <p>When a video editor encountered a life-threatening error in the hospital, my colleagues and I created the nationally award-winning patient safety video, <a href="https://differencemakersmedia.com/patient-safety-video/">“Things You Should Know Before Entering The Hospital.”</a></p> <p>It’s a privilege to interview difference makers through my live streaming program, “The Difference Makers.”  I welcome new guests and encourage you to connect with me.</p> <p>Let’s make your stories great ones!</p> <p>More about Lynn Sanders at <strong><a href="https://differencemakersmedia.com/">https://differencemakersmedia.com</a></strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3378</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7435554708.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Sponsorship for Non Profits with Charmine Hammond</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/sponsorship-for-non-profits-with-charmine-hammond</link>
      <description>Sponsorship for Non Profits - How collaboration, creativity, and relationships can lead to YES with Charmaine Hammond
 Charmaine Hammond has worked with hundreds of nonprofit organizations (as a facilitator, speaker, and trainer), she was an executive director of a family crisis society, has her own charity, and now in her business Raise a Dream she helps nonprofits learn how collaboration and sponsorship revenue can help them thrive, and make a bigger impact in the world.
 Like you, we're on a mission to make a big impact in the world. We’ve learned that through the power of collective influence, nonprofits are able to deepen their impact on the world. Through training, collaboration with partners, and services focused on sustainability, we help you reshape the way you operate your organization.
 Questions Addressed in this Interview:
 1) What is sponsorship and how can it help nonprofits? 2) What mistakes are nonprofits making and what could they do instead to stand out, be remembered, and get more yeses? 3) Can you share some case studies of how nonprofits have collaborated or/and secured sponsorship? 4) You said you have a 7 step model to help nonprofits, can you share what that is?
 For more information on Raise a Dream go here http://www.raiseadream.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/713dc288-b329-11eb-9f0f-77b9d9fa6ece/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>How collaboration, creativity, and relationships can lead to YES</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Sponsorship for Non Profits - How collaboration, creativity, and relationships can lead to YES with Charmaine Hammond
 Charmaine Hammond has worked with hundreds of nonprofit organizations (as a facilitator, speaker, and trainer), she was an executive director of a family crisis society, has her own charity, and now in her business Raise a Dream she helps nonprofits learn how collaboration and sponsorship revenue can help them thrive, and make a bigger impact in the world.
 Like you, we're on a mission to make a big impact in the world. We’ve learned that through the power of collective influence, nonprofits are able to deepen their impact on the world. Through training, collaboration with partners, and services focused on sustainability, we help you reshape the way you operate your organization.
 Questions Addressed in this Interview:
 1) What is sponsorship and how can it help nonprofits? 2) What mistakes are nonprofits making and what could they do instead to stand out, be remembered, and get more yeses? 3) Can you share some case studies of how nonprofits have collaborated or/and secured sponsorship? 4) You said you have a 7 step model to help nonprofits, can you share what that is?
 For more information on Raise a Dream go here http://www.raiseadream.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Sponsorship for Non Profits - How collaboration, creativity, and relationships can lead to YES<br> with Charmaine Hammond</strong></h1> <p><strong>Charmaine Hammond</strong> has worked with hundreds of nonprofit organizations (as a facilitator, speaker, and trainer), she was an executive director of a family crisis society, has her own charity, and now in her business Raise a Dream she helps nonprofits learn how collaboration and sponsorship revenue can help them thrive, and make a bigger impact in the world.</p> Like you, we're on a mission to make a big impact in the world. <p>We’ve learned that through the power of collective influence, nonprofits are able to deepen their impact on the world. Through training, collaboration with partners, and services focused on sustainability, we help you reshape the way you operate your organization.</p> <p><strong>Questions Addressed in this Interview:</strong></p> <p>1) What is sponsorship and how can it help nonprofits?<br> 2) What mistakes are nonprofits making and what could they do instead to stand out, be remembered, and get more yeses?<br> 3) Can you share some case studies of how nonprofits have collaborated or/and secured sponsorship?<br> 4) You said you have a 7 step model to help nonprofits, can you share what that is?</p> <p>For more information on Raise a Dream go here <strong><a href="http://www.raiseadream.com/">http://www.raiseadream.com</a></strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3662</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[3df27ed2-fd1a-4d08-bc0c-cd743ab52296]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3290147674.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Mastery Under Pressure with Tina Greenbaum</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/mastery-under-pressure-with-tina-greenbaum</link>
      <description>Mastery Under Pressure with Tina Greenbaum
  Building your emotional stamina through peak performance training Tina Greenbaum works with executives who want to increase their performance level in high-stakes, high-pressure situations. An Optimal Performance Specialist and Sports Psychology Consultant, Tina’s signature program, Mastery Under Pressure empowers leaders and their teams using cutting-edge technology, neuroscience, energy psychology, sports psychology, and current learning theory. In addition to her Mastery Under Pressure team program, Tina also works with CEOs and senior-level management as a confidential ‘Thera-Coach’ on a one-to-one basis. Her expertise in guiding executives through their psychological and personal issues helps her clients cope with the demands that their personal struggles place on them as they strive to be atop their sector. As she likes to say,
 “The only thing standing between you and your goals is…you.”
 More about Tina Greenbaum at https://masteryunderpressure.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/716996ba-b329-11eb-9f0f-eb762fc0527d/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Building your emotional stamina through peak performance training</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Mastery Under Pressure with Tina Greenbaum
  Building your emotional stamina through peak performance training Tina Greenbaum works with executives who want to increase their performance level in high-stakes, high-pressure situations. An Optimal Performance Specialist and Sports Psychology Consultant, Tina’s signature program, Mastery Under Pressure empowers leaders and their teams using cutting-edge technology, neuroscience, energy psychology, sports psychology, and current learning theory. In addition to her Mastery Under Pressure team program, Tina also works with CEOs and senior-level management as a confidential ‘Thera-Coach’ on a one-to-one basis. Her expertise in guiding executives through their psychological and personal issues helps her clients cope with the demands that their personal struggles place on them as they strive to be atop their sector. As she likes to say,
 “The only thing standing between you and your goals is…you.”
 More about Tina Greenbaum at https://masteryunderpressure.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1> Mastery Under Pressure with Tina Greenbaum</h1>  <em>Building your emotional stamina through peak performance training</em> <p><em><strong>Tina Greenbaum</strong> works with executives who want to increase their performance level in high-stakes, high-pressure situations. An Optimal Performance Specialist and Sports Psychology Consultant, Tina’s signature program, <strong>Mastery Under Pressure</strong> empowers leaders and their teams using cutting-edge technology, neuroscience, energy psychology, sports psychology, and current learning theory. In addition to her <strong>Mastery Under Pressure</strong> team program, Tina also works with CEOs and senior-level management as a confidential ‘Thera-Coach’ on a one-to-one basis. Her expertise in guiding executives through their psychological and personal issues helps her clients cope with the demands that their personal struggles place on them as they strive to be atop their sector. As she likes to say,</em></p> <p><em>“The only thing standing between you and your goals is…you.”</em></p> <p><em>More about Tina Greenbaum at <strong><a href="https://masteryunderpressure.com/">https://masteryunderpressure.com</a></strong></em></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3620</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[ae66219f-4ec7-43f6-8e31-51007806c7a9]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9518776416.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Tools for Supercharging Your Nonprofit with BizPlan Builder Burke Franklin</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/tools-for-supercharging-your-nonprofit-with-bizplan-builder-burke-franklin</link>
      <description>Tools for Supercharging Your Nonprofit with BizPlan Builder Burke Franklin
 Burke Franklin is the creator &amp; CEO of BusinessPowerTools.com, best known for BizPlanBuilder® software which has sold more than 2 million copies.
 “It's crucial that your innovations succeed in our world. This means that your business must be profitable and sustainable – without you losing control, your mind or your shirt!” he says.
 Burke graduated from UC Santa Barbara and has worked for a number of tech companies in Southern California and Silicon Valley.
 He says he started making real money after he launched his own company and now has 40+ years of sales, marketing, and management experience.
 Along the way, he was elected to the White House Conference on Small Business and nominated for Ernst &amp; Young’s “Entrepreneur of the Year."
 His idea of changing the world is providing the business tools you need to help you change the world.
 Burke has now taken all of his content from 30 years of successful windows apps and experience and remastered it into a seamless cloud-based collaborative online dashboard.
 Michael Gerber (E-Myth) called it, "The customizable encyclopedia of everything you need to know about your business...!"
 Burke's book, Business Black Belt, applies lessons from 37 years of personal development workshops, martial arts, flying, and real-world business success to building companies.
 Podcast highlights…
  What is a conscious business?
 Why is personal purpose important?
 What are some conscious business strategies that can impact profit?
 What are some examples of “Building a Conscious Business”
  More information at https://www.businesspowertools.com/preview/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/71865fa2-b329-11eb-9f0f-b7a7a4732e42/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Planning for Success</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Tools for Supercharging Your Nonprofit with BizPlan Builder Burke Franklin
 Burke Franklin is the creator &amp; CEO of BusinessPowerTools.com, best known for BizPlanBuilder® software which has sold more than 2 million copies.
 “It's crucial that your innovations succeed in our world. This means that your business must be profitable and sustainable – without you losing control, your mind or your shirt!” he says.
 Burke graduated from UC Santa Barbara and has worked for a number of tech companies in Southern California and Silicon Valley.
 He says he started making real money after he launched his own company and now has 40+ years of sales, marketing, and management experience.
 Along the way, he was elected to the White House Conference on Small Business and nominated for Ernst &amp; Young’s “Entrepreneur of the Year."
 His idea of changing the world is providing the business tools you need to help you change the world.
 Burke has now taken all of his content from 30 years of successful windows apps and experience and remastered it into a seamless cloud-based collaborative online dashboard.
 Michael Gerber (E-Myth) called it, "The customizable encyclopedia of everything you need to know about your business...!"
 Burke's book, Business Black Belt, applies lessons from 37 years of personal development workshops, martial arts, flying, and real-world business success to building companies.
 Podcast highlights…
  What is a conscious business?
 Why is personal purpose important?
 What are some conscious business strategies that can impact profit?
 What are some examples of “Building a Conscious Business”
  More information at https://www.businesspowertools.com/preview/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Tools for Supercharging Your Nonprofit with BizPlan Builder Burke Franklin</strong></h1> <p><strong>Burke Franklin</strong> is the creator &amp; CEO of <strong><a href="http://businesspowertools.com/">BusinessPowerTools.com</a></strong>, best known for <strong>BizPlanBuilder</strong>® software which has sold more than 2 million copies.</p> <p>“It's crucial that your innovations succeed in our world. This means that your business must be profitable and sustainable – without you losing control, your mind or your shirt!” he says.</p> <p>Burke graduated from UC Santa Barbara and has worked for a number of tech companies in Southern California and Silicon Valley.</p> <p>He says he started making real money after he launched his own company and now has 40+ years of sales, marketing, and management experience.</p> <p>Along the way, he was elected to the <em>White House Conference on Small Business</em> and nominated for Ernst &amp; Young’s <em>“Entrepreneur of the Year."</em></p> <p>His idea of changing the world is providing the business tools you need to help <em>you</em> change the world.</p> <p>Burke has now taken all of his content from 30 years of successful windows apps and experience and remastered it into a seamless cloud-based collaborative online dashboard.</p> <p>Michael Gerber (E-Myth) called it, <em>"The customizable encyclopedia of everything you need to know about your business...!"</em></p> <p>Burke's book, <em>Business Black Belt,</em> applies lessons from 37 years of personal development workshops, martial arts, flying, and real-world business success to building companies.</p> <p>Podcast highlights…</p> <ol> <li>What is a conscious business?</li> <li>Why is personal purpose important?</li> <li>What are some conscious business strategies that can impact profit?</li> <li>What are some examples of “Building a Conscious Business”</li> </ol> <p>More information at <strong><a href="https://www.businesspowertools.com/preview/">https://www.businesspowertools.com/preview/</a></strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3759</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[47b89674-95f5-44b6-9037-c366863e3623]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6017470333.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to Use Focus and New Habits to Get More Accomplished</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-to-use-focus-and-new-habits-to-get-more-accomplished</link>
      <description>How to Use Focus and New Habits to Get More Accomplished
 With Elan Marko and Blake Fly
 Elan Marko is the founder of Deep Work Sprints. A co-working world that helps Entrepreneurs accomplish goals faster. He's facilitated over 1000 Virtual Coworking experiences for entrepreneurs and has figured out how to build an online work culture that's easy, fast, focused, and fun. He's also rock climbed over 400,000 vertical feet and is currently converting a sprinter van to a tiny home on wheels with his love Caitlyn.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/71977788-b329-11eb-9f0f-334aef5758c1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>With Elan Marko and Blake Fly</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How to Use Focus and New Habits to Get More Accomplished
 With Elan Marko and Blake Fly
 Elan Marko is the founder of Deep Work Sprints. A co-working world that helps Entrepreneurs accomplish goals faster. He's facilitated over 1000 Virtual Coworking experiences for entrepreneurs and has figured out how to build an online work culture that's easy, fast, focused, and fun. He's also rock climbed over 400,000 vertical feet and is currently converting a sprinter van to a tiny home on wheels with his love Caitlyn.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>How to Use Focus and New Habits to Get More Accomplished</strong></h1> <p><strong>With Elan Marko and Blake Fly</strong></p> <p><strong>Elan Marko</strong> is the founder of Deep Work Sprints. A co-working world that helps Entrepreneurs accomplish goals faster. He's facilitated over 1000 Virtual Coworking experiences for entrepreneurs and has figured out how to build an online work culture that's easy, fast, focused, and fun. He's also rock climbed over 400,000 vertical feet and is currently converting a sprinter van to a tiny home on wheels with his love Caitlyn.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3496</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[7f54431a-5d33-49f0-8665-49d6becb61dd]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2097183757.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Engaging Digital Platforms for Nonprofits</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/engaging-digital-platforms-for-nonprofits</link>
      <description>Engaging Digital Platforms for Nonprofits with Digital Expert Spencer Brooks

 Spencer Brooks is the Founder &amp; Principal of Brooks Digital, an expert digital firm that empowers health nonprofits to improve the lives of patients. He’s helped organizations such as The diaTribe Foundation scale their digital presence from a few thousand annual visitors and subscribers to over 2.5 million visitors and 200,000 subscribers. Spencer’s superpower is helping organizations get their complex, difficult-to-use website under control so they can provide the right information to the right person at the right time.
 Spencer’s writing has been featured in publications such as TechSoup and Nonprofit Marketing Guide. He is a sought after speaker on the topics of digital metrics, the patient journey, getting inside the heads of an organization’s website visitors, and converting patients to advocates. Spencer lives in the Portland, Oregon area with his wife and 2 children.
 More about Spencer and his work at https://brooks.digital/
 Find data mentioned in the interview at https://brooks.digital/nonprofitexchange/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/71cc1e48-b329-11eb-9f0f-7b0383f1b943/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>with Digital Expert Spencer Brooks</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Engaging Digital Platforms for Nonprofits with Digital Expert Spencer Brooks

 Spencer Brooks is the Founder &amp; Principal of Brooks Digital, an expert digital firm that empowers health nonprofits to improve the lives of patients. He’s helped organizations such as The diaTribe Foundation scale their digital presence from a few thousand annual visitors and subscribers to over 2.5 million visitors and 200,000 subscribers. Spencer’s superpower is helping organizations get their complex, difficult-to-use website under control so they can provide the right information to the right person at the right time.
 Spencer’s writing has been featured in publications such as TechSoup and Nonprofit Marketing Guide. He is a sought after speaker on the topics of digital metrics, the patient journey, getting inside the heads of an organization’s website visitors, and converting patients to advocates. Spencer lives in the Portland, Oregon area with his wife and 2 children.
 More about Spencer and his work at https://brooks.digital/
 Find data mentioned in the interview at https://brooks.digital/nonprofitexchange/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>
<strong>Engaging Digital Platforms for Nonprofits</strong><br> <strong>with Digital Expert Spencer Brooks</strong>
</h1> <p><strong>Spencer Brook</strong>s is the Founder &amp; Principal of Brooks Digital, an expert digital firm that empowers health nonprofits to improve the lives of patients. He’s helped organizations such as The diaTribe Foundation scale their digital presence from a few thousand annual visitors and subscribers to over 2.5 million visitors and 200,000 subscribers. Spencer’s superpower is helping organizations get their complex, difficult-to-use website under control so they can provide the right information to the right person at the right time.</p> <p>Spencer’s writing has been featured in publications such as TechSoup and Nonprofit Marketing Guide. He is a sought after speaker on the topics of digital metrics, the patient journey, getting inside the heads of an organization’s website visitors, and converting patients to advocates. Spencer lives in the Portland, Oregon area with his wife and 2 children.</p> <p>More about Spencer and his work at <strong><a href="https://brooks.digital/">https://brooks.digital/</a></strong></p> <p>Find data mentioned in the interview at <strong><a href="https://brooks.digital/nonprofitexchange/">https://brooks.digital/nonprofitexchange/</a></strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3567</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d4ac9e57-733d-4f91-b611-173697529aaf]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6533911951.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Nonprofit and Business Collaboration: The Pathway to Community Impact</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofit-and-business-collaboration-the-pathway-to-community-impact</link>
      <description>Nonprofit and Business Collaboration: The Pathway to Community Impact with Kelli Holmes

 How Nonprofit and Business Leaders Network for Increased Effectiveness  Kelli C. Holmes, CEO, and Founder of TEAM Referral Network and TEAM Franchise Corporation has worked with thousands of businesses over the last 30 years. Her focus - to teach business professionals how to develop a successful business based on “Relationship” Marketing. She specializes in educating and supporting professionals on how to GROW their business with relationships and the right referrals for their business. Kelli believes you can do better, smarter business through Relationship Marketing.
 The motto of her organization TEAM Referral Network is from the acronym TEAM… Together Everyone Achieves More. TEAM is a professional referral organization that turns success-oriented business people into a strong team of networking professionals. TEAM has opened hundreds of chapters with thousands of members in the U.S. and currently expanding internationally. TEAM Franchise Corporation was named one of the “98 Brave new Franchises” by Entrepreneur Magazine and has been on its TOP 500 Franchises list for 6 years.
 TEAM also has an extraordinary “Community Outreach” program that benefits non-profit organizations. This program has raised many thousands of dollars for the non-profit members of TEAM.
 Kelli is the author of “Cracking the Business Networking Code” and a contributing author to the best-sellers “Savvy Women-Revving Up for Success” and “Elevate” – a TEAM collaborative book. She is also a frequent featured keynote speaker at business conferences, formally a consultant for the SBDC (Small Business Development Center), CEO Space Faculty member and has served on many Boards for children’s charities. She is a regular radio and webcast guest and has done many workshops on the topic of “Networking” and “Relationship Marketing”.
 TEAM Referral Network is based in La Verne, California, the same city in which she has been a life-long resident and has been a business owner there for over 30 years. Currently, she and her husband of 34 years reside there with daughters Riley (19) and Charlotte (18).
 If you were to ask Kelli the root of her success, she would tell you… it is from her faith in God and having a true passion for what she does.
 More about Kelli Holmes and Team Referral Network - https://teamreferralnetwork.com
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/71e041ca-b329-11eb-9f0f-a797d692df06/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Kelli Holmes CEO Team Referral Network</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Nonprofit and Business Collaboration: The Pathway to Community Impact with Kelli Holmes

 How Nonprofit and Business Leaders Network for Increased Effectiveness  Kelli C. Holmes, CEO, and Founder of TEAM Referral Network and TEAM Franchise Corporation has worked with thousands of businesses over the last 30 years. Her focus - to teach business professionals how to develop a successful business based on “Relationship” Marketing. She specializes in educating and supporting professionals on how to GROW their business with relationships and the right referrals for their business. Kelli believes you can do better, smarter business through Relationship Marketing.
 The motto of her organization TEAM Referral Network is from the acronym TEAM… Together Everyone Achieves More. TEAM is a professional referral organization that turns success-oriented business people into a strong team of networking professionals. TEAM has opened hundreds of chapters with thousands of members in the U.S. and currently expanding internationally. TEAM Franchise Corporation was named one of the “98 Brave new Franchises” by Entrepreneur Magazine and has been on its TOP 500 Franchises list for 6 years.
 TEAM also has an extraordinary “Community Outreach” program that benefits non-profit organizations. This program has raised many thousands of dollars for the non-profit members of TEAM.
 Kelli is the author of “Cracking the Business Networking Code” and a contributing author to the best-sellers “Savvy Women-Revving Up for Success” and “Elevate” – a TEAM collaborative book. She is also a frequent featured keynote speaker at business conferences, formally a consultant for the SBDC (Small Business Development Center), CEO Space Faculty member and has served on many Boards for children’s charities. She is a regular radio and webcast guest and has done many workshops on the topic of “Networking” and “Relationship Marketing”.
 TEAM Referral Network is based in La Verne, California, the same city in which she has been a life-long resident and has been a business owner there for over 30 years. Currently, she and her husband of 34 years reside there with daughters Riley (19) and Charlotte (18).
 If you were to ask Kelli the root of her success, she would tell you… it is from her faith in God and having a true passion for what she does.
 More about Kelli Holmes and Team Referral Network - https://teamreferralnetwork.com
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>
<strong>Nonprofit and Business Collaboration:<br> The Pathway to Community Impact</strong><br> <strong>with Kelli Holmes</strong>
</h1> <em><strong>How Nonprofit and Business Leaders Network<br></strong></em> <em><strong>for Increased Effectiveness</strong></em> <p><strong> Kelli C. Holmes</strong>, CEO, and Founder of TEAM Referral Network and TEAM Franchise Corporation has worked with thousands of businesses over the last 30 years. Her focus - to teach business professionals how to develop a successful business based on “Relationship” Marketing. She specializes in educating and supporting professionals on how to GROW their business with relationships and the right referrals for their business. Kelli believes you can do better, smarter business through Relationship Marketing.</p> <p>The motto of her organization TEAM Referral Network is from the acronym TEAM… Together Everyone Achieves More. TEAM is a professional referral organization that turns success-oriented business people into a strong team of networking professionals. TEAM has opened hundreds of chapters with thousands of members in the U.S. and currently expanding internationally.<br> TEAM Franchise Corporation was named one of the “98 Brave new Franchises” by Entrepreneur Magazine and has been on its TOP 500 Franchises list for 6 years.</p> <p>TEAM also has an extraordinary “Community Outreach” program that benefits non-profit organizations. This program has raised many thousands of dollars for the non-profit members of TEAM.</p> <p>Kelli is the author of “Cracking the Business Networking Code” and a contributing author to the best-sellers “Savvy Women-Revving Up for Success” and “Elevate” – a TEAM collaborative book. She is also a frequent featured keynote speaker at business conferences, formally a consultant for the SBDC (Small Business Development Center), CEO Space Faculty member and has served on many Boards for children’s charities. She is a regular radio and webcast guest and has done many workshops on the topic of “Networking” and “Relationship Marketing”.</p> <p>TEAM Referral Network is based in La Verne, California, the same city in which she has been a life-long resident and has been a business owner there for over 30 years. Currently, she and her husband of 34 years reside there with daughters Riley (19) and Charlotte (18).</p> <p>If you were to ask Kelli the root of her success, she would tell you… it is from her faith in God and having a true passion for what she does.</p> <p>More about Kelli Holmes and Team Referral Network - <strong><a href="https://teamreferralnetwork.com/">https://teamreferralnetwork.com</a></strong></p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Empower Us! From Crisis to Strategic Harmony with Dr Ira Kaufman</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/empower-us-from-crisis-to-strategic-harmony-with-dr-ira-kaufman</link>
      <description>Empower Us! From Crisis to Strategic Harmony with Dr. Ira Kaufman
 Ira Kaufman, Ph.D. is a Transformation Strategist, CEO, Social Entrepreneur, and Educator. Ira’s 45 years of management experience spans three worlds: business, nonprofit, and education. He challenges leaders, entrepreneurs, and students to reflect on their assumptions and resistances to discover new sustainable solutions and fuel purposeful action. His company, Entwine Digital, works with mid-size organizations and multinationals to design values-based Transformation strategies and train World-Class Leaders. His Transformation Academy provides a framework for managing continuous change and developing transformative business models. As a co-founder of the Global Transformation Corps, he redirects entrepreneurship to a stake- holder-centric model with sustainable impacts. Drawing upon the strengths of Rising Voices of the Future, he created the Catalyzer—a leader that transforms Love of Purpose into a Power that catalyzes the impact of organizations and businesses. At the University of Lynchburg College of Business, he designed and implemented the Transformative Leadership Lab and Transformative Leadership in the Digital Age curricula. He co-authored Digital Marketing with Purpose (now in 2nd edition).
 More about Dr. Kaufman's work at https://empowerus.world
 Dr. Kaufman's Transformation Declaration
 Transformation Declaration The New Normal has become politics without principles, business without morality, science without humanity, technology without ethics, and knowledge without character.
 We are surrounded with inequality and mistrust for our leaders and institutions. We have become tribal in our many battles for personal gain. Our governing values are compromised by money, corruption, and greed. If you are frustrated with the world as is, we challenge you to see the world as it could be and join us to transform it.
 WE PROPOSE: Strategic Harmony bridging the heart and the mind, values, and emerging technologies, generating the sustainable future that serves all.
 WE THINK US: Where ME replaces US Where TEST Values (Trust, Empathy, Sustainability, Transparency) are accountable and the gold standard Where Love augments purpose… Purpose empowers our future Where equity transcends ideas; it lives in policy While technology accelerates planetary responsibility, driving sustainable impact.
 WE THINK CATALYTIC: Where trust is the currency for transformation Where organizations thrive on happiness, authenticity, and innovation Where governance is built on humility and empathy Where economics reflects Value for all stakeholders Where Catalyzers realize The New Harmony.
 WE CALL TO ACTION: Rising Voices (Next Generation, Women, Marginalized) and human-centered leaders to radically collaborate to reinvent an inclusive and sustainable planet.
 WE EMPOWER US... on a journey to STRATEGIC HARMONY!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/71fc5ebe-b329-11eb-9f0f-f7d0e150f7ea/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Empower Us! From Crisis to Strategic Harmony with Dr. Ira Kaufman Ira Kaufman, Ph.D. is a Transformation Strategist, CEO, Social Entrepreneur, and Educator. Ira’s 45 years of management experience spans three worlds: business, nonprofit, and...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Empower Us! From Crisis to Strategic Harmony with Dr. Ira Kaufman
 Ira Kaufman, Ph.D. is a Transformation Strategist, CEO, Social Entrepreneur, and Educator. Ira’s 45 years of management experience spans three worlds: business, nonprofit, and education. He challenges leaders, entrepreneurs, and students to reflect on their assumptions and resistances to discover new sustainable solutions and fuel purposeful action. His company, Entwine Digital, works with mid-size organizations and multinationals to design values-based Transformation strategies and train World-Class Leaders. His Transformation Academy provides a framework for managing continuous change and developing transformative business models. As a co-founder of the Global Transformation Corps, he redirects entrepreneurship to a stake- holder-centric model with sustainable impacts. Drawing upon the strengths of Rising Voices of the Future, he created the Catalyzer—a leader that transforms Love of Purpose into a Power that catalyzes the impact of organizations and businesses. At the University of Lynchburg College of Business, he designed and implemented the Transformative Leadership Lab and Transformative Leadership in the Digital Age curricula. He co-authored Digital Marketing with Purpose (now in 2nd edition).
 More about Dr. Kaufman's work at https://empowerus.world
 Dr. Kaufman's Transformation Declaration
 Transformation Declaration The New Normal has become politics without principles, business without morality, science without humanity, technology without ethics, and knowledge without character.
 We are surrounded with inequality and mistrust for our leaders and institutions. We have become tribal in our many battles for personal gain. Our governing values are compromised by money, corruption, and greed. If you are frustrated with the world as is, we challenge you to see the world as it could be and join us to transform it.
 WE PROPOSE: Strategic Harmony bridging the heart and the mind, values, and emerging technologies, generating the sustainable future that serves all.
 WE THINK US: Where ME replaces US Where TEST Values (Trust, Empathy, Sustainability, Transparency) are accountable and the gold standard Where Love augments purpose… Purpose empowers our future Where equity transcends ideas; it lives in policy While technology accelerates planetary responsibility, driving sustainable impact.
 WE THINK CATALYTIC: Where trust is the currency for transformation Where organizations thrive on happiness, authenticity, and innovation Where governance is built on humility and empathy Where economics reflects Value for all stakeholders Where Catalyzers realize The New Harmony.
 WE CALL TO ACTION: Rising Voices (Next Generation, Women, Marginalized) and human-centered leaders to radically collaborate to reinvent an inclusive and sustainable planet.
 WE EMPOWER US... on a journey to STRATEGIC HARMONY!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Empower Us! From Crisis to Strategic Harmony<br> with Dr. Ira Kaufman</strong></h1> <p><strong>Ira Kaufman</strong>, Ph.D. is a Transformation Strategist, CEO, Social Entrepreneur, and Educator. Ira’s 45 years of management experience spans three worlds: business, nonprofit, and education. He challenges leaders, entrepreneurs, and students to reflect on their assumptions and resistances to discover new sustainable solutions and fuel purposeful action. <a href="https://empowerus.world/"></a>His company, Entwine Digital, works with mid-size organizations and multinationals to design values-based Transformation strategies and train World-Class Leaders. His Transformation Academy provides a framework for managing continuous change and developing transformative business models. As a co-founder of the Global Transformation Corps, he redirects entrepreneurship to a stake- holder-centric model with sustainable impacts. Drawing upon the strengths of Rising Voices of the Future, he created the Catalyzer—a leader that transforms Love of Purpose into a Power that catalyzes the impact of organizations and businesses. At the University of Lynchburg College of Business, he designed and implemented the Transformative Leadership Lab and Transformative Leadership in the Digital Age curricula. He co-authored <em>Digital Marketing with Purpose</em> (now in 2nd edition).</p> <p>More about Dr. Kaufman's work at <strong><a href="https://empowerus.world/">https://empowerus.world</a></strong></p> <p>Dr. Kaufman's Transformation Declaration</p> <em><strong>Transformation Declaration<br></strong></em> <p>The New Normal has become politics without principles, business without morality, science without humanity, technology without ethics, and knowledge without character.</p> <p>We are surrounded with inequality and mistrust for our leaders and institutions. We have become tribal in our many battles for personal gain. Our governing values are compromised by money, corruption, and greed.<br> If you are frustrated with the world as is, we challenge you to see the world as it could be and join us to transform it.</p> <p><strong>WE PROPOSE</strong>: Strategic Harmony bridging the heart and the mind, values, and emerging technologies, generating the sustainable future that serves all.</p> <p><strong>WE THINK US:</strong><br> Where ME replaces US<br> Where TEST Values (Trust, Empathy, Sustainability, Transparency) are accountable and the gold standard<br> Where Love augments purpose… Purpose empowers our future<br> Where equity transcends ideas; it lives in policy<br> While technology accelerates planetary responsibility, driving sustainable impact.</p> <p><strong>WE THINK CATALYTIC:</strong><br> Where trust is the currency for transformation<br> Where organizations thrive on happiness, authenticity, and innovation<br> Where governance is built on humility and empathy<br> Where economics reflects Value for all stakeholders<br> Where Catalyzers realize The New Harmony.</p> <p>WE CALL TO ACTION:<br> Rising Voices (Next Generation, Women, Marginalized) and human-centered leaders to radically collaborate to reinvent an inclusive and sustainable planet.</p> <p>WE EMPOWER US... on a journey to STRATEGIC HARMONY!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3650</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Working “ON” Your Business and not just “IN” Your Business with Mark Dobosz</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/working-on-your-business-and-not-just-in-your-business-with-mark-dobosz</link>
      <description>Working “ON” Your Business and not just “IN” Your Business with Mark Dobosz

 Business and Strategic Planning As a Routine Part of Your Business/Organization
 Mark Dobosz serves as Executive Director of the Western Sports Foundation. WSF provides health and wellness programs and financial assistance to western sports athletes in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, and Australia.
 Mark has spent over 35 years working in a variety of leadership roles and areas for not-for-profit organizations including development, marketing, public relations, community, and government relations operations and teaching. He has served in organizations that address community needs in the areas of education, health care, small business development, disabilities, and community development. Some of these include the SCORE Foundation, Out-of-Door Academy, the Mercy Health Care System, Easter Seals, Friends School in Detroit, and other independent schools.
 In the area of fundraising, Mark has been responsible for starting a foundation from the ground-level, multi-million-dollar campaigns, developing new fundraising programs, sponsorship programs, as well as expanding several annual giving, planned giving, and special events programs. Mark has helped raise more than $30 million for the organizations he has served.
 Mark has spoken extensively throughout his career on non-profit management, leadership and fundraising at various local, regional, and national conferences. He is a member of the Association of Fundraising Professionals, ASAE – The Center for Association Leadership, and the American Bar Association.
 He is one of the contributing authors of the book “Do Your Giving While You’re Living” by Edie Fraser and Robyn Spizman, as well as the Editor and contributing author of – Business Planning Tools for Non-Profit Organizations – First and Second Editions.
 Mark recently served as Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors of The Office Depot Foundation and has served on the boards of several professional and non-profit organizations. He is a recipient of the CASE (Council for the Advancement and Support of Education) Circle of Excellence in Fundraising Award – the Council’s highest award, as well as, a 2010 recipient of the Listen Learn and Care Award from The Office Depot Foundation for his contributions to the not-for-profit sector.
 In addition to an undergraduate degree from St. Mary’s College, Mark holds Executive Certificates in Nonprofit Leadership and Management and, Transformational Nonprofit Leadership, from the Mendoza College of Business at the University of Notre Dame.
 About the interview in Mark’s words:
 One of my favorite reminders that I have repeatedly shared with entrepreneurs over the years is to remember to spend time working ON your business and not just IN your business.
 Being a small business owner puts you square in the crosshairs of finding yourself doing everything on any given day in order to make your business run successfully. So much so, that it has the ability to become all-consuming – either out of necessity to survive or just plain unplanned success. In both cases, seeing the forest for the trees often takes a back seat to sustaining your business and the chances for long-term success can be compromised.
 So how do you know when it’s time to take a step back? What are five (5) warning signs that you may be working too much IN your business and not enough ON your business?
 1. You aren’t questioning enough anymore.
 You are just in a “move from project to project” mode and it’s all about just getting the work done and no time for anything else.
 2. You aren’t listening enough anymore.
 You stop relying on those who are working with you or for you for insights and ideas and you think you need to have all of the answers to every problem that surfaces.
 3. You think you have to control everything including the outcomes.
 You keep telling yourself that if you just do this and just do that you will get the desired results without recognizing which variables are in your control and which are not in your control.
 4. You either lose the ability to admit you were wrong, or become so attached to your honest but naive loyalty to your ideas, or your strong sense of perseverance won’t stop and becomes unrealistic. In either situation, the result is ultimately the same outcome. You lose sight of the big picture, and you escalate your commitment to following a path that is leading you in circles instead of moving you forward.
 5. You have used the phrase more than once in the past two weeks – “I just don’t have the time to do anything else!”
 Once you begin to rationalize NOT taking the time is a clear sign that you have started down a path of potential misfires and bad decisions.
 If you find that you have experienced one or more of these warning signs recently, do yourself and your business a favor and STOP. Take a half-day for yourself and get out of your own way and go to spend time away from your office and business and think about where you want your business to be in 3 months, 6 months a year. Dust off that business plan and see how close you are to the plan with your current state of affairs.
 Remember, Albert Einstein, said it best – “Insanity is best defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/721a4032-b329-11eb-9f0f-970207f568e1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Working “ON” Your Business and not just “IN” Your Business with Mark Dobosz Business and Strategic Planning As a Routine Part of Your Business/Organization Mark Dobosz serves as Executive Director of the Western Sports Foundation. WSF provides...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Working “ON” Your Business and not just “IN” Your Business with Mark Dobosz

 Business and Strategic Planning As a Routine Part of Your Business/Organization
 Mark Dobosz serves as Executive Director of the Western Sports Foundation. WSF provides health and wellness programs and financial assistance to western sports athletes in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, and Australia.
 Mark has spent over 35 years working in a variety of leadership roles and areas for not-for-profit organizations including development, marketing, public relations, community, and government relations operations and teaching. He has served in organizations that address community needs in the areas of education, health care, small business development, disabilities, and community development. Some of these include the SCORE Foundation, Out-of-Door Academy, the Mercy Health Care System, Easter Seals, Friends School in Detroit, and other independent schools.
 In the area of fundraising, Mark has been responsible for starting a foundation from the ground-level, multi-million-dollar campaigns, developing new fundraising programs, sponsorship programs, as well as expanding several annual giving, planned giving, and special events programs. Mark has helped raise more than $30 million for the organizations he has served.
 Mark has spoken extensively throughout his career on non-profit management, leadership and fundraising at various local, regional, and national conferences. He is a member of the Association of Fundraising Professionals, ASAE – The Center for Association Leadership, and the American Bar Association.
 He is one of the contributing authors of the book “Do Your Giving While You’re Living” by Edie Fraser and Robyn Spizman, as well as the Editor and contributing author of – Business Planning Tools for Non-Profit Organizations – First and Second Editions.
 Mark recently served as Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors of The Office Depot Foundation and has served on the boards of several professional and non-profit organizations. He is a recipient of the CASE (Council for the Advancement and Support of Education) Circle of Excellence in Fundraising Award – the Council’s highest award, as well as, a 2010 recipient of the Listen Learn and Care Award from The Office Depot Foundation for his contributions to the not-for-profit sector.
 In addition to an undergraduate degree from St. Mary’s College, Mark holds Executive Certificates in Nonprofit Leadership and Management and, Transformational Nonprofit Leadership, from the Mendoza College of Business at the University of Notre Dame.
 About the interview in Mark’s words:
 One of my favorite reminders that I have repeatedly shared with entrepreneurs over the years is to remember to spend time working ON your business and not just IN your business.
 Being a small business owner puts you square in the crosshairs of finding yourself doing everything on any given day in order to make your business run successfully. So much so, that it has the ability to become all-consuming – either out of necessity to survive or just plain unplanned success. In both cases, seeing the forest for the trees often takes a back seat to sustaining your business and the chances for long-term success can be compromised.
 So how do you know when it’s time to take a step back? What are five (5) warning signs that you may be working too much IN your business and not enough ON your business?
 1. You aren’t questioning enough anymore.
 You are just in a “move from project to project” mode and it’s all about just getting the work done and no time for anything else.
 2. You aren’t listening enough anymore.
 You stop relying on those who are working with you or for you for insights and ideas and you think you need to have all of the answers to every problem that surfaces.
 3. You think you have to control everything including the outcomes.
 You keep telling yourself that if you just do this and just do that you will get the desired results without recognizing which variables are in your control and which are not in your control.
 4. You either lose the ability to admit you were wrong, or become so attached to your honest but naive loyalty to your ideas, or your strong sense of perseverance won’t stop and becomes unrealistic. In either situation, the result is ultimately the same outcome. You lose sight of the big picture, and you escalate your commitment to following a path that is leading you in circles instead of moving you forward.
 5. You have used the phrase more than once in the past two weeks – “I just don’t have the time to do anything else!”
 Once you begin to rationalize NOT taking the time is a clear sign that you have started down a path of potential misfires and bad decisions.
 If you find that you have experienced one or more of these warning signs recently, do yourself and your business a favor and STOP. Take a half-day for yourself and get out of your own way and go to spend time away from your office and business and think about where you want your business to be in 3 months, 6 months a year. Dust off that business plan and see how close you are to the plan with your current state of affairs.
 Remember, Albert Einstein, said it best – “Insanity is best defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1> <strong>Working “ON” Your Business and not just “IN” Your Business with Mark Dobosz</strong>
</h1> <p><strong>Business and Strategic Planning As a Routine Part of Your Business/Organization</strong></p> <p><strong>Mark Dobosz</strong> serves as Executive Director of the Western Sports Foundation. WSF provides health and wellness programs and financial assistance to western sports athletes in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, and Australia.</p> <p>Mark has spent over 35 years working in a variety of leadership roles and areas for not-for-profit organizations including development, marketing, public relations, community, and government relations operations and teaching. He has served in organizations that address community needs in the areas of education, health care, small business development, disabilities, and community development. Some of these include the SCORE Foundation, Out-of-Door Academy, the Mercy Health Care System, Easter Seals, Friends School in Detroit, and other independent schools.</p> <p>In the area of fundraising, Mark has been responsible for starting a foundation from the ground-level, multi-million-dollar campaigns, developing new fundraising programs, sponsorship programs, as well as expanding several annual giving, planned giving, and special events programs. Mark has helped raise more than $30 million for the organizations he has served.</p> <p>Mark has spoken extensively throughout his career on non-profit management, leadership and fundraising at various local, regional, and national conferences. He is a member of the Association of Fundraising Professionals, ASAE – The Center for Association Leadership, and the American Bar Association.</p> <p>He is one of the contributing authors of the book “Do Your Giving While You’re Living” by Edie Fraser and Robyn Spizman, as well as the Editor and contributing author of – Business Planning Tools for Non-Profit Organizations – First and Second Editions.</p> <p>Mark recently served as Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors of The Office Depot Foundation and has served on the boards of several professional and non-profit organizations. He is a recipient of the CASE (Council for the Advancement and Support of Education) Circle of Excellence in Fundraising Award – the Council’s highest award, as well as, a 2010 recipient of the Listen Learn and Care Award from The Office Depot Foundation for his contributions to the not-for-profit sector.</p> <p>In addition to an undergraduate degree from St. Mary’s College, Mark holds Executive Certificates in Nonprofit Leadership and Management and, Transformational Nonprofit Leadership, from the Mendoza College of Business at the University of Notre Dame.</p> <p>About the interview in Mark’s words:</p> <p>One of my favorite reminders that I have repeatedly shared with entrepreneurs over the years is to remember to spend time working ON your business and not just IN your business.</p> <p>Being a small business owner puts you square in the crosshairs of finding yourself doing everything on any given day in order to make your business run successfully. So much so, that it has the ability to become all-consuming – either out of necessity to survive or just plain unplanned success. In both cases, seeing the forest for the trees often takes a back seat to sustaining your business and the chances for long-term success can be compromised.</p> <p>So how do you know when it’s time to take a step back? What are five (5) warning signs that you may be working too much IN your business and not enough ON your business?</p> <p>1. You aren’t questioning enough anymore.</p> <p>You are just in a “move from project to project” mode and it’s all about just getting the work done and no time for anything else.</p> <p>2. You aren’t listening enough anymore.</p> <p>You stop relying on those who are working with you or for you for insights and ideas and you think you need to have all of the answers to every problem that surfaces.</p> <p>3. You think you have to control everything including the outcomes.</p> <p>You keep telling yourself that if you just do this and just do that you will get the desired results without recognizing which variables are in your control and which are not in your control.</p> <p>4. You either lose the ability to admit you were wrong, or become so attached to your honest but naive loyalty to your ideas, or your strong sense of perseverance won’t stop and becomes unrealistic. In either situation, the result is ultimately the same outcome. You lose sight of the big picture, and you escalate your commitment to following a path that is leading you in circles instead of moving you forward.</p> <p>5. You have used the phrase more than once in the past two weeks – “I just don’t have the time to do anything else!”</p> <p>Once you begin to rationalize NOT taking the time is a clear sign that you have started down a path of potential misfires and bad decisions.</p> <p>If you find that you have experienced one or more of these warning signs recently, do yourself and your business a favor and STOP. Take a half-day for yourself and get out of your own way and go to spend time away from your office and business and think about where you want your business to be in 3 months, 6 months a year. Dust off that business plan and see how close you are to the plan with your current state of affairs.</p> <p>Remember, Albert Einstein, said it best – “<em>Insanity is best defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.</em>”</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3382</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9788298800.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Handling Difficult People: Dealing with People You Can’t Stand</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/handling-difficult-people-dealing-with-people-you-cant-stand</link>
      <description>Handling Difficult People: Dealing with People You Can’t Stand
 Information about Kit Welchlin:
  Grew up on a hog and dairy farm in southern Minnesota and began public speaking at the age of 9 in a 4-H public speaking contest.
 At age 21 he purchased his first manufacturing company and by age 26 served as C.E.O. and Chairman of the Board of 3 manufacturing companies in 3 states.
 Has a Bachelor of Science Degree in Speech Communication, Business Administration and Political Science.
 Received a Masters Degree in Speech Communication and Business Administration.
 In 1991, Kit started Welchlin Communication Strategies and Seminars On Stress, providing speeches and seminars, to private and public organizations.
 Kit taught part-time for 26 years for the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities, where he received the Teaching Excellence Award and had been repeatedly nominated as Outstanding Faculty.
 He is a Professional Member of the National Speakers Association and has earned the Certified Speaking Professional designation. In 2014, Kit was inducted into the Minnesota Speakers Association Hall of Fame.
 Recently Kit earned the Certified Virtual Presenter designation from eSpeakers.
 He has delivered more than 3,500 speeches and seminars to more than 500,000 people over the past 29 years.
  It is estimated the 20 -21% of our population can be classified as difficult people.  No matter where you go there will be at least one to deal with.
 Difficult people look for your buttons.  They don’t push your buttons; they punch them!
 Conflict Resolution and Negotiation skills dictate your level of professionalism.  Acquiring conflict resolution and negotiation skills strengthen your confidence and increase the likelihood that you will walk away from the bargaining session with satisfying outcomes.
 Learn:
  the techniques to gain cooperation
 the different types of difficult people
 the five stages in controlling your emotions and responding appropriately
 how to differentiate yourself from everyone else
   
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/72316046-b329-11eb-9f0f-3f8c764e49ea/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Kit Welchlin</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Handling Difficult People: Dealing with People You Can’t Stand
 Information about Kit Welchlin:
  Grew up on a hog and dairy farm in southern Minnesota and began public speaking at the age of 9 in a 4-H public speaking contest.
 At age 21 he purchased his first manufacturing company and by age 26 served as C.E.O. and Chairman of the Board of 3 manufacturing companies in 3 states.
 Has a Bachelor of Science Degree in Speech Communication, Business Administration and Political Science.
 Received a Masters Degree in Speech Communication and Business Administration.
 In 1991, Kit started Welchlin Communication Strategies and Seminars On Stress, providing speeches and seminars, to private and public organizations.
 Kit taught part-time for 26 years for the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities, where he received the Teaching Excellence Award and had been repeatedly nominated as Outstanding Faculty.
 He is a Professional Member of the National Speakers Association and has earned the Certified Speaking Professional designation. In 2014, Kit was inducted into the Minnesota Speakers Association Hall of Fame.
 Recently Kit earned the Certified Virtual Presenter designation from eSpeakers.
 He has delivered more than 3,500 speeches and seminars to more than 500,000 people over the past 29 years.
  It is estimated the 20 -21% of our population can be classified as difficult people.  No matter where you go there will be at least one to deal with.
 Difficult people look for your buttons.  They don’t push your buttons; they punch them!
 Conflict Resolution and Negotiation skills dictate your level of professionalism.  Acquiring conflict resolution and negotiation skills strengthen your confidence and increase the likelihood that you will walk away from the bargaining session with satisfying outcomes.
 Learn:
  the techniques to gain cooperation
 the different types of difficult people
 the five stages in controlling your emotions and responding appropriately
 how to differentiate yourself from everyone else
   
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Handling Difficult People: Dealing with People You Can’t Stand</h1> <p>Information about <strong>Kit Welchlin</strong>:</p> <ul> <li>Grew up on a hog and dairy farm in southern Minnesota and began public speaking at the age of 9 in a 4-H public speaking contest.</li> <li>At age 21 he purchased his first manufacturing company and by age 26 served as C.E.O. and Chairman of the Board of 3 manufacturing companies in 3 states.</li> <li>Has a Bachelor of Science Degree in Speech Communication, Business Administration and Political Science.</li> <li>Received a Masters Degree in Speech Communication and Business Administration.</li> <li>In 1991, Kit started Welchlin Communication Strategies and Seminars On Stress, providing speeches and seminars, to private and public organizations.</li> <li>Kit taught part-time for 26 years for the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities, where he received the Teaching Excellence Award and had been repeatedly nominated as Outstanding Faculty.</li> <li>He is a Professional Member of the National Speakers Association and has earned the Certified Speaking Professional designation. In 2014, Kit was inducted into the Minnesota Speakers Association Hall of Fame.</li> <li>Recently Kit earned the Certified Virtual Presenter designation from eSpeakers.</li> <li>He has delivered more than 3,500 speeches and seminars to more than 500,000 people over the past 29 years.</li> </ul> <p>It is estimated the 20 -21% of our population can be classified as difficult people.  No matter where you go there will be at least one to deal with.</p> <p>Difficult people look for your buttons.  They don’t push your buttons; they punch them!</p> <p>Conflict Resolution and Negotiation skills dictate your level of professionalism.  Acquiring conflict resolution and negotiation skills strengthen your confidence and increase the likelihood that you will walk away from the bargaining session with satisfying outcomes.</p> <p>Learn:</p> <ul> <li>the techniques to gain cooperation</li> <li>the different types of difficult people</li> <li>the five stages in controlling your emotions and responding appropriately</li> <li>how to differentiate yourself from everyone else</li> </ul> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3621</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[71b00af9-0a3b-4cce-8b21-d4c237606104]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9092807839.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How To Turn Social Media Marketing Into A Consistent Stream of Leads and Business Wins</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-to-turn-social-media-marketing-into-a-consistent-stream-of-leads-and-business-wins</link>
      <description>How To Turn Social Media Marketing Into A Consistent Stream of Leads and Business Wins with Social Media Specialist Tony Restell
 Tony Restell built and sold an internet business before founding a social media agency in 2012. His agency helps business leaders to turn social media into a consistent source of leads, inquiries, event bookings, and business wins. He's a guest speaker at MBA schools across Europe and works with hundreds of clients across the English-speaking world.
 His message: Social media can open doors. Whether you want to strike up relationships with corporate sponsors or raise the profile of your nonprofit with the wider public, the right strategy on social media can make this a reality, often within 90-120 days. If your non-profit struggles to demonstrate the return it's getting from social media, then the chances are you're approaching things wrong and could get far more compelling results from a change in strategy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/724483d8-b329-11eb-9f0f-4bbcbc07296e/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>with Social Media Specialist Tony Restell</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How To Turn Social Media Marketing Into A Consistent Stream of Leads and Business Wins with Social Media Specialist Tony Restell
 Tony Restell built and sold an internet business before founding a social media agency in 2012. His agency helps business leaders to turn social media into a consistent source of leads, inquiries, event bookings, and business wins. He's a guest speaker at MBA schools across Europe and works with hundreds of clients across the English-speaking world.
 His message: Social media can open doors. Whether you want to strike up relationships with corporate sponsors or raise the profile of your nonprofit with the wider public, the right strategy on social media can make this a reality, often within 90-120 days. If your non-profit struggles to demonstrate the return it's getting from social media, then the chances are you're approaching things wrong and could get far more compelling results from a change in strategy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>How To Turn Social Media Marketing Into A Consistent Stream of Leads and Business Wins<br> with Social Media Specialist Tony Restell</h1> <p><strong>Tony Restell</strong> built and sold an internet business before founding a social media agency in 2012. His agency helps business leaders to turn social media into a consistent source of leads, inquiries, event bookings, and business wins. He's a guest speaker at MBA schools across Europe and works with hundreds of clients across the English-speaking world.</p> <p>His message: Social media can open doors. Whether you want to strike up relationships with corporate sponsors or raise the profile of your nonprofit with the wider public, the right strategy on social media can make this a reality, often within 90-120 days. If your non-profit struggles to demonstrate the return it's getting from social media, then the chances are you're approaching things wrong and could get far more compelling results from a change in strategy</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3610</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[5f906183-8b02-4561-8bdf-28e1e03137b9]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9187201501.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Three Must-Know Strategies for Building a Strong Board/Executive Relationship</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/three-must-know-strategies-for-building-a-strong-boardexecutive-relationship</link>
      <description>Three Must-Know Strategies for Building a Strong Board/Executive Relationship with Dr. Mary Hiland

 Dr. Hiland shares the 5 ways we know nonprofit boards impact the nonprofits they serve.
 What 3 strategies are critical to building a strong board/executive relationship?
  
Build trust – the 3 levels of trust in working relationships and examples of how to build the board/executive relationship to the highest level
 
Executive assets – keep your board members’ informed of the assets you bring – what those are.
 
Managing expectations – get clarity about the board members’ roles vs the executive’s role and where they overlap (shared leadership).
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7263bc58-b329-11eb-9f0f-afc43fe19477/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>with Dr. Mary Hiland</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Three Must-Know Strategies for Building a Strong Board/Executive Relationship with Dr. Mary Hiland

 Dr. Hiland shares the 5 ways we know nonprofit boards impact the nonprofits they serve.
 What 3 strategies are critical to building a strong board/executive relationship?
  
Build trust – the 3 levels of trust in working relationships and examples of how to build the board/executive relationship to the highest level
 
Executive assets – keep your board members’ informed of the assets you bring – what those are.
 
Managing expectations – get clarity about the board members’ roles vs the executive’s role and where they overlap (shared leadership).
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1> <strong>Three Must-Know Strategies for Building a Strong Board/Executive Relationship</strong><br> <strong>with Dr. Mary Hiland</strong>
</h1> <p>Dr. Hiland shares the 5 ways we know nonprofit boards impact the nonprofits they serve.</p> <p>What 3 strategies are critical to building a strong board/executive relationship?</p> <ol> <li>
<strong>Build trust</strong> – the 3 levels of trust in working relationships and examples of how to build the board/executive relationship to the highest level</li> <li>
<strong>Executive assets</strong> – keep your board members’ informed of the assets you bring – what those are.</li> <li>
<strong>Managing expectations</strong> – get clarity about the board members’ roles vs the executive’s role and where they overlap (shared leadership).</li> </ol><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3638</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[59908c74-73f0-49bf-825d-2e01f7967933]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9899700949.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why The World is Our Oyster and Nonprofits are the Pear</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/why-the-world-is-our-oyster-and-nonprofits-are-the-pear</link>
      <description>Why The World is Our Oyster and Nonprofits are the Pearl with J. E. Rash
 J.E. Rash, President, and Founder Legacy International will be sharing about the ocean of service and the need to create a new tomorrow today and discuss The importance of clear values-based programs, trainings, projects, staff choice. And culturally sensitive understanding of the communication styles, needs of those you serve. Listen, Observe, Value, Engage Unify LOVE U
 J.E. Rash is a lecturer, writer, and consultant in dialogue, NGO development, conflict resolution, and education. His career includes studies in law, religion, and alternative medicine, work in professional theater and media, and the design of educational training programs for inner and outer leadership.  Entrepreneur, innovator, and visionary, Mr. Rash has founded and leads four organizations, each with a 40-year record of success.
 His flagship organization, Legacy International, (http://www.legacyintl.org), is a U.S.-based international non-governmental organization, dedicated to equipping emerging leaders with the skills to transform their values and vision into sustainable success. Utilizing cutting edge methods for professional development, Legacy international focuses on a values-based approach to capacity building, catalytic leadership, networked thinking, socially responsible entrepreneurship, diversity training, conflict prevention, and youth and women’s empowerment.
 Throughout his work, Mr. Rash seeks to build bridges of understanding and to develop practical interfaces among people of diverse backgrounds by emphasizing universal values, social responsibility, mutual respect and tolerance.  Under Mr. Rash’s direction, Legacy international has become a global leader in Helping People to Help Themselves and Others with over 10,000 alumni in 102 countries.
 Legacy International trains and mentors community leaders helping them to develop and implement practical, community-based solutions to critical issues. Community by community, program participants leave a lasting Legacy of:
  Increased and sustainable citizen participation in local problem solving
 Increased capacity in non-governmental organizations
 Increased cross-sectoral collaboration
 More constructive options and opportunities for the next generation
  In 1987, J.E. Rash received the Friends of the United Nations Environment Program 500 Award for outstanding contributions to the environment.  He has presented at the United Nations, the World Bank, the Asian Conference on Religion for Peace; Islamic Unity Conference; University of Colorado’s Golda Meir Center for Political Leadership; and International Symposia on Science and Consciousness in Olympia, Greece and Cancun, Mexico. He has addressed numerous college and academic audiences and served on Ph.D. committees at Virginia Polytechnic Institute (VPI).
 J.E. Rash is committed to creating a positive legacy for future generations who will be faced with planetary challenges and opportunities of heretofore unseen magnitude. He often quotes: “you cannot change a community until you change yourself.’ And seeks to encourage people to balance their outer life and goals with a rich and contemplative inner life and practice.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/727cabf0-b329-11eb-9f0f-3364a9b7bcbb/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with J. E. Rash</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Why The World is Our Oyster and Nonprofits are the Pearl with J. E. Rash
 J.E. Rash, President, and Founder Legacy International will be sharing about the ocean of service and the need to create a new tomorrow today and discuss The importance of clear values-based programs, trainings, projects, staff choice. And culturally sensitive understanding of the communication styles, needs of those you serve. Listen, Observe, Value, Engage Unify LOVE U
 J.E. Rash is a lecturer, writer, and consultant in dialogue, NGO development, conflict resolution, and education. His career includes studies in law, religion, and alternative medicine, work in professional theater and media, and the design of educational training programs for inner and outer leadership.  Entrepreneur, innovator, and visionary, Mr. Rash has founded and leads four organizations, each with a 40-year record of success.
 His flagship organization, Legacy International, (http://www.legacyintl.org), is a U.S.-based international non-governmental organization, dedicated to equipping emerging leaders with the skills to transform their values and vision into sustainable success. Utilizing cutting edge methods for professional development, Legacy international focuses on a values-based approach to capacity building, catalytic leadership, networked thinking, socially responsible entrepreneurship, diversity training, conflict prevention, and youth and women’s empowerment.
 Throughout his work, Mr. Rash seeks to build bridges of understanding and to develop practical interfaces among people of diverse backgrounds by emphasizing universal values, social responsibility, mutual respect and tolerance.  Under Mr. Rash’s direction, Legacy international has become a global leader in Helping People to Help Themselves and Others with over 10,000 alumni in 102 countries.
 Legacy International trains and mentors community leaders helping them to develop and implement practical, community-based solutions to critical issues. Community by community, program participants leave a lasting Legacy of:
  Increased and sustainable citizen participation in local problem solving
 Increased capacity in non-governmental organizations
 Increased cross-sectoral collaboration
 More constructive options and opportunities for the next generation
  In 1987, J.E. Rash received the Friends of the United Nations Environment Program 500 Award for outstanding contributions to the environment.  He has presented at the United Nations, the World Bank, the Asian Conference on Religion for Peace; Islamic Unity Conference; University of Colorado’s Golda Meir Center for Political Leadership; and International Symposia on Science and Consciousness in Olympia, Greece and Cancun, Mexico. He has addressed numerous college and academic audiences and served on Ph.D. committees at Virginia Polytechnic Institute (VPI).
 J.E. Rash is committed to creating a positive legacy for future generations who will be faced with planetary challenges and opportunities of heretofore unseen magnitude. He often quotes: “you cannot change a community until you change yourself.’ And seeks to encourage people to balance their outer life and goals with a rich and contemplative inner life and practice.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Why The World is Our Oyster<br> and Nonprofits are the Pearl<br> with J. E. Rash</strong></h1> <p><strong>J.E. Rash, President, and Founder Legacy International</strong> will be sharing about the ocean of service and the need to create a new tomorrow today and discuss The importance of clear values-based programs, trainings, projects, staff choice. And culturally sensitive understanding of the communication styles, needs of those you serve. Listen, Observe, Value, Engage Unify LOVE U</p> <p>J.E. Rash is a lecturer, writer, and consultant in dialogue, NGO development, conflict resolution, and education. His career includes studies in law, religion, and alternative medicine, work in professional theater and media, and the design of educational training programs for inner and outer leadership.  Entrepreneur, innovator, and visionary, Mr. Rash has founded and leads four organizations, each with a 40-year record of success.</p> <p>His flagship organization, Legacy International, (<a href="http://www.legacyintl.org/">http://www.legacyintl.org</a>), is a U.S.-based international non-governmental organization, dedicated to equipping emerging leaders with the skills to transform their values and vision into sustainable success. Utilizing cutting edge methods for professional development, Legacy international focuses on a values-based approach to capacity building, catalytic leadership, networked thinking, socially responsible entrepreneurship, diversity training, conflict prevention, and youth and women’s empowerment.</p> <p>Throughout his work, Mr. Rash seeks to build bridges of understanding and to develop practical interfaces among people of diverse backgrounds by emphasizing universal values, social responsibility, mutual respect and tolerance.  Under Mr. Rash’s direction, Legacy international has become a global leader in <em>Helping People to Help Themselves and Others</em> with over 10,000 alumni in 102 countries.</p> <p>Legacy International trains and mentors community leaders helping them to develop and implement practical, community-based solutions to critical issues. Community by community, program participants leave a lasting Legacy of:</p> <ul> <li>Increased and sustainable citizen participation in local problem solving</li> <li>Increased capacity in non-governmental organizations</li> <li>Increased cross-sectoral collaboration</li> <li>More constructive options and opportunities for the next generation</li> </ul> <p>In 1987, J.E. Rash received the Friends of the United Nations Environment Program 500 Award for outstanding contributions to the environment.  He has presented at the United Nations, the World Bank, the Asian Conference on Religion for Peace; Islamic Unity Conference; University of Colorado’s Golda Meir Center for Political Leadership; and International Symposia on Science and Consciousness in Olympia, Greece and Cancun, Mexico. He has addressed numerous college and academic audiences and served on Ph.D. committees at Virginia Polytechnic Institute (VPI).</p> <p>J.E. Rash is committed to creating a positive legacy for future generations who will be faced with planetary challenges and opportunities of heretofore unseen magnitude. He often quotes: “you cannot change a community until you change yourself.’ And seeks to encourage people to balance their outer life and goals with a rich and contemplative inner life and practice.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3591</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[ebfcac36-9973-4de5-954a-cb91a5a5e010]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8580389156.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Power of Transformational Experiences with Tony Bodoh</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-power-of-transformational-experiences-with-tony-bodoh</link>
      <description>The Power of Transformational Experiences: Donor and Recipient Experiences with Hospitality Expert Tony Bodoh
 We are moving from the Experience Economy into the Transformation Economy. People are now seeking much more than just a positive, memorable experience. They want a new self-identity. They want to be transformed. This is a significant opportunity for nonprofits to up-level how they communicate the transformational stories of those they serve. It also means that donors and volunteers are seeking to be transformed through their acts of giving. To meet this need, nonprofit leaders can apply discoveries made through customer experience research in the for-profit sector.
 Tony Bodoh is the CEO of Tony Bodoh International, a customer experience consultancy. TBI’s focus is on applying the science of human experience to deepen the customer relationships that build brands and grow businesses. In 2018, Tony was named one of the “Top Customer Service Movers and Shakers You Follow.”
 Tony is also a co-founder of 3 other businesses, including Pinstripe Entertainment which runs Pinstripe.TV and BZNS. Tony describes Pinstripe.TV as “Netflix meets Amazon Prime Video for business people.” The platform provides live-streaming and curated on-demand shows, documentaries, and courses for business leaders. BZNS is an all-business broadcast channel launching in 2020.
 Tony is a speaker, podcaster, and co-author of three #1 Best Selling books including ProphetAbility - The Revealing Story of Why Companies Succeed, Fail or Bounce Back; Leverage - How to Achieve a Lot with the Little You’ve Got; and, The Complete Experience - Unlocking the Secrets of Online Reviews that Drive Customer Loyalty. Tony lives in Nashville, Tennessee with his wife and two daughters, and spends his free time between volunteering in the community with his family and binge-watching historical documentaries.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7295b596-b329-11eb-9f0f-178af091c2ed/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Donor and Recipient Experiences</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Power of Transformational Experiences: Donor and Recipient Experiences with Hospitality Expert Tony Bodoh
 We are moving from the Experience Economy into the Transformation Economy. People are now seeking much more than just a positive, memorable experience. They want a new self-identity. They want to be transformed. This is a significant opportunity for nonprofits to up-level how they communicate the transformational stories of those they serve. It also means that donors and volunteers are seeking to be transformed through their acts of giving. To meet this need, nonprofit leaders can apply discoveries made through customer experience research in the for-profit sector.
 Tony Bodoh is the CEO of Tony Bodoh International, a customer experience consultancy. TBI’s focus is on applying the science of human experience to deepen the customer relationships that build brands and grow businesses. In 2018, Tony was named one of the “Top Customer Service Movers and Shakers You Follow.”
 Tony is also a co-founder of 3 other businesses, including Pinstripe Entertainment which runs Pinstripe.TV and BZNS. Tony describes Pinstripe.TV as “Netflix meets Amazon Prime Video for business people.” The platform provides live-streaming and curated on-demand shows, documentaries, and courses for business leaders. BZNS is an all-business broadcast channel launching in 2020.
 Tony is a speaker, podcaster, and co-author of three #1 Best Selling books including ProphetAbility - The Revealing Story of Why Companies Succeed, Fail or Bounce Back; Leverage - How to Achieve a Lot with the Little You’ve Got; and, The Complete Experience - Unlocking the Secrets of Online Reviews that Drive Customer Loyalty. Tony lives in Nashville, Tennessee with his wife and two daughters, and spends his free time between volunteering in the community with his family and binge-watching historical documentaries.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>The Power of Transformational Experiences: Donor and Recipient Experiences<br> with Hospitality Expert Tony Bodoh</strong></h1> <p>We are moving from the Experience Economy into the Transformation Economy. People are now seeking much more than just a positive, memorable experience. They want a new self-identity. They want to be transformed. This is a significant opportunity for nonprofits to up-level how they communicate the transformational stories of those they serve. It also means that donors and volunteers are seeking to be transformed through their acts of giving. To meet this need, nonprofit leaders can apply discoveries made through customer experience research in the for-profit sector.</p> <p><strong>Tony Bodoh</strong> is the CEO of Tony Bodoh International, a customer experience consultancy. TBI’s focus is on applying the science of human experience to deepen the customer relationships that build brands and grow businesses. In 2018, Tony was named one of the “Top Customer Service Movers and Shakers You Follow.”</p> <p>Tony is also a co-founder of 3 other businesses, including Pinstripe Entertainment which runs Pinstripe.TV and BZNS. Tony describes Pinstripe.TV as “Netflix meets Amazon Prime Video for business people.” The platform provides live-streaming and curated on-demand shows, documentaries, and courses for business leaders. BZNS is an all-business broadcast channel launching in 2020.</p> <p>Tony is a speaker, podcaster, and co-author of three #1 Best Selling books including ProphetAbility - The Revealing Story of Why Companies Succeed, Fail or Bounce Back; Leverage - How to Achieve a Lot with the Little You’ve Got; and, The Complete Experience - Unlocking the Secrets of Online Reviews that Drive Customer Loyalty. Tony lives in Nashville, Tennessee with his wife and two daughters, and spends his free time between volunteering in the community with his family and binge-watching historical documentaries.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Becoming a Successful Founder with Ryan Frederick</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/becoming-a-successful-founder-with-ryan-frederick</link>
      <description>Becoming a Successful Founder with Ryan Frederick
 Ryan Frederick is a Founder and product person at heart. He has founded and grown several software and service companies from inception to viability, through to sustainability. He has been instrumental in capitalization activities and has even expanded into international markets. Ryan is an active angel investor, mentor, advisor, author, and speaker. He recently released a new book, The Founder’s Manual: A Guidebook for Becoming a Successful Entrepreneur. Ryan speaks frequently about product, Founder, and startup journeys.
 The Founder’s Manual Many aspects of being a Founder, creating a product, and building a company are counter-intuitive. In The Founder’s Manual, Ryan Frederick provides insights into how to deal with them including:
  Founders have to run to the fire, not away from it.
 Scale doesn’t matter until a small number of customers love what you are doing.
 You can’t solve a problem you don’t understand at an expert level.
 Customer Product Fit is better than Product Market Fit and why.
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/72ba0130-b329-11eb-9f0f-6ff2762c7cce/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Becoming a Successful Founder with Ryan Frederick Ryan Frederick is a Founder and product person at heart. He has founded and grown several software and service companies from inception to viability, through to sustainability. He has been...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Becoming a Successful Founder with Ryan Frederick
 Ryan Frederick is a Founder and product person at heart. He has founded and grown several software and service companies from inception to viability, through to sustainability. He has been instrumental in capitalization activities and has even expanded into international markets. Ryan is an active angel investor, mentor, advisor, author, and speaker. He recently released a new book, The Founder’s Manual: A Guidebook for Becoming a Successful Entrepreneur. Ryan speaks frequently about product, Founder, and startup journeys.
 The Founder’s Manual Many aspects of being a Founder, creating a product, and building a company are counter-intuitive. In The Founder’s Manual, Ryan Frederick provides insights into how to deal with them including:
  Founders have to run to the fire, not away from it.
 Scale doesn’t matter until a small number of customers love what you are doing.
 You can’t solve a problem you don’t understand at an expert level.
 Customer Product Fit is better than Product Market Fit and why.
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Becoming a Successful Founder with Ryan Frederick</strong></p> <p><strong>Ryan Frederick</strong> is a Founder and product person at heart. He has founded and grown several software and service companies from inception to viability, through to sustainability. He has been instrumental in capitalization activities and has even expanded into international markets. Ryan is an active angel investor, mentor, advisor, author, and speaker. He recently released a new book, The Founder’s Manual: A Guidebook for Becoming a Successful Entrepreneur. Ryan speaks frequently about product, Founder, and startup journeys.</p> The Founder’s Manual <p>Many aspects of being a Founder, creating a product, and building a company are counter-intuitive. In The Founder’s Manual, Ryan Frederick provides insights into how to deal with them including:</p> <ul> <li>Founders have to run to the fire, not away from it.</li> <li>Scale doesn’t matter until a small number of customers love what you are doing.</li> <li>You can’t solve a problem you don’t understand at an expert level.</li> <li>Customer Product Fit is better than Product Market Fit and why.</li> </ul><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3500</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Philanthropy Misunderstood by Bob Hopkins</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/philanthropy-misunderstood-by-bob-hopkins</link>
      <description>Philanthropy Misunderstood by Bob Hopkins
 The word PHILANTHROPY isn’t new, but many think being a philanthropist is about money. In Bob Hopkins’ new book, he assures us it IS NOT. He and 100 of his friends define, by way of their good deeds, that philanthropy is about LOVE OF MANKIND. Philanthropy Misunderstood is a 256-page coffee- table book that will surely entertain and inform you. You won’t want to put it down. It is colorful and exciting.
 “Bob Hopkins Introduces us to 100 plus new best friends…people like you and me who give of themselves who actually LOVE others. What a joyful time Bob shares with us. Optimism and hope emerge from every page. Each person’s story sparkles. Each one makes us prouder to be fellow ‘homo-sapiens’.” Dr. Claire Gaudiani, philanthropist, author and international lecturer.
 Bob recalls his first experience with his mother when he was five years old in Garden City, Kansas as they delivered groceries to a poor family during the holidays. He remembers the pat on the back he received from someone for doing good. “Maybe it was God,” he recalled.
 For more information, go to Philanthropy Misunderstood.
  
  Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings. Welcome to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. Wow. This is going to open your mind to a whole new world. I just met Bob Hopkins recently on a recent trip to Dallas. Some of our previous guests that started Barefoot Winery said, “You have to meet Bob.” When I was in Dallas, I rang him up, and we met. They had shared his book with me called Philanthropy Misunderstood. I thought it was a nice book. When I started digging into the stories and what Bob knew about philanthropy, I said, “We have to share this with other people.” Bob, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell people a little bit about you and your passion.
 Bob Hopkins: Thank you, Hugh. I am so honored to be invited to be here with you as your guest today. I am glad to know that there are some other people in the book in your audience today. I am an older person. I have been around for a long time. Every 20 years, I ask myself, “What am I doing, and where am I going?” I have divided myself into four different segments of my life. I am on the last 18 years. I give myself another 18 years to live. I am trying to figure out what to do, so I am probably going to go to a seminar called PSI in June to find out what I’m going to do next.
 But, Hugh, I have been involved with this word “philanthropy” for the last 45-50 years. I learn more about what it means all the time. Then I became confused and realized that what I thought philanthropy was is not. Or maybe it is part of, but that’s why I had to dig into it and tell stories of 108 people who actually do philanthropic things for other people. That’s what this book is about.
 Hugh: How long have you been engaged in the nonprofit arena with leaders and different kinds of organizations?
 Bob: I came to Dallas in 1984. I had just been involved as the director of development on the National Council of Alcoholism and learned all about this word called “fundraising” and philanthropy. Found out that the two of them are together as one word and one meaning, and they are also separate things. Some people get them mixed up. They think that fundraising is about money, but so is philanthropy. I have learned that philanthropy can be about money, but largely not. Instead, it’s doing good things for others. That’s how I got involved with this. I have been in Dallas for 38 years, and I have been working in raising money and now writing a book. I did a magazine called Philanthropy in Texas for a while. Every decade, I learned a little bit more about what that word means.
 Hugh: Bob, you and I are in our mid-70s, we’ll say. We could be sitting back, chilling, and not doing anything. But you and I have a passion for being engaged. Why aren’t you sitting around? You’re teaching classes, and the stuff that you’re asking your students is really profound. You’re active with some local charities still. Why is this important to you?
 Bob: I don’t know. I do it because I don’t know what else to do. I do play tennis, and I do ride horses. Those are two of my hobbies. I do spend time doing those two things every week, so it’s not like I’m constantly thinking about philanthropy, even though I have a horse named Philanthropy. I watch the USTA, and did you know the USTA is a nonprofit organization? They wouldn’t survive if they didn’t get contributions from people. They do good for others. I guess I’m involved with philanthropy pretty much all the time, even though it’s my joy. I love doing it. I like talking about it. I like telling people about it. I like finding people who are doing different new things. I have found so many people over my 40 years that I decided to put them in a book. That’s where Philanthropy Misunderstood came from.
 Hugh: I’ve had the joy of visiting a couple. The whole family does this water project. I won’t get into it, but I want you to tell people. You called them up and said, “You have to meet Hugh.” I went over there, and it was an amazing visit with the whole family. I met the couple. I didn’t meet the kids, but I have heard about them and their involvement. How about highlighting some of the stories? Let’s talk about this one first; they will be guests on the show in June. It’s folding paper. How does that help people?
 Bob: This is a crazy story, and it’s a fabulous story. It’s been so fabulous that it’s been on Good Morning America. Neiman Marcus actually helped these girls sell these ornaments that are called origami that they make. Their church and schools make them with them. They have volunteers of hundreds of people who do nothing but help make origami, and they sell the origami for $50-$75 a piece. To date, they have raised over $2 million building water wells to actually give water around the world. 170 different water wells in 17 or 18 different countries. These girls are 15, 13, and 10 years old. They started it when they were 4, 5, and 6 because Daddy is part Japanese. He said, “We need to do some origami.” One thing led to the other. I’m not sure what the other is and how detailed you have to get in to find out what the thinking was of the parents, about involving their children in making these origami. That’s their life. It is now their life. These girls are so smart because they are in a business. The 15-year-old is the president of the foundation. It’s a cool thing.
 Hugh: I went to visit the whole house and the project. These volunteers come in to do the folding. It’s engaged people in a focus. I don’t know if the people come in and do that right now, but maybe the family can do more while the kids are out of school. There is another story in here that has a big picture, and it’s Bonnie and Michael with Barefoot Winery. They were guests a couple months ago, and they were the ones who connected us. Tell the story about how you got connected and their story in the book.
 Bob: It’s so interesting because Eric is actually the one who introduced me to Bonnie and Michael. He was the marketing director of Barefoot Wine. What Bonnie and Michael did, when they couldn’t sell the wine, because nobody wanted to buy it because there was no place to buy it, and liquor stores didn’t want to buy it because nobody was asking for it. They started giving it away to charities on the beach in beach towns, mainly starting in Florida. He would give it to them for free, and he said, “If you like it, go to your grocery stores and tell them to buy it.” Long story short, over 15 years, it became the #1 wine in America. Bonnie and Michael did it through giving wine away to charitable causes. I know that they had a marketing plan here. They said, “This is cause-related marketing,” which are words we used to use. They didn’t really know it was philanthropy because they really wanted to sell wine. But it also made them feel good, too. I have taken Bonnie and Michael on a philanthropy trip to Mexico. So I got to watch them in action. It didn’t have to do with wine; it had to do with building schools and painting houses for people in Mexico. It’s a great story. They are in the book, and they should be.
 Hugh: The book is what you would call a coffee table book. It is hardbound. It’s a $45 book. The quality of printing and the quality of the stories and an amazing layout and design. It should be $100. It’s one of these treasures. My fourth book, which you have a copy of, Transforming Power, I teach people how to do things. I got to a point where I said, “Hmm, people want to be inspired by stories.” That’s one of the premises behind this show is for people to tell their stories. There are people out there in the trenches who are struggling to make ends meet, to pull people together, to rally volunteers, to rally their boards, to rally their funders. Let’s talk a bit about this title and what’s behind it. What is the biggest misunderstanding on both sides, the funder and people seeking funding?
 Bob: It started with me. I was always told that philanthropy was about money. I started a magazine in Texas all about people who had money and gave it away. I would come into my staff and say, “I think we need to do Boone Pickens on the cover of the magazine. And the first question was, “How much money does he give away?” That was the common question. That was whether or not we were going to put him in the book on how much money they gave away. Finally, after a while, I realized, You know what? I know a lot of people who do so much more than writing a check. They’re never recognized.
 I have this incredible woman from Houston named Carolyn Farb who spends 26 hours a day helping people learn how to raise money, but also build a hospital, and do all kinds of things. She is not known to be a huge giver, even though she is a giver; therefore, her picture would not be on the front cover of anything because of money. But it would be because of the word “philanthropy.” I realized, because of Carolyn, that I was talking to the wrong people. I needed to be talking to people who were in the book. The people in the book probably give money as well, but that wasn’t what I wanted the focus on. I wanted them to tell me why they do what they do. Why do they build origami and build water wells around the world? They don’t get any money for it, and they don’t give any money. They give things. Well, they do give money because they raise money in their case.
 Bonnie and Michael, they give money, too. Instead, they gave wine. Chip Richey gives his time and effort and expertise in filmmaking. He’s made lots of films about the Indians and Oklahoma. He did things for me for my philanthropy courses. There is Jordie Turk who was a student of mine, who volunteered on his own dime to come to Dallas and video my launch party. His name is not even on the piece. But he did it. He loved it. He is happy about it. I think that’s what philanthropy does, moreso than what money does, is gives you joy. That’s what everybody says. I get so much more out of what I did than what I gave.
 Hugh: Philanthropy is both. We have to run the organization. It’s like having a car. You have to put gas in it. But there is a bigger piece to this. It’s not money alone. Sometimes, people want to give money to save their conscience. They want to be doing something, and they’re not really involved with it. So they want to buy a place. but buying a place and stepping up and working. Talk about the synergy of the two of those together.
 Bob: I’m a giver. But nobody would ever recognize me as a financial giver because I give $100 or $200 or $25 or $50 or whatever. I’m involved with a lot of organizations. I give not necessarily because I love the organization, but I love the person who is asking me. So I write a check in order to continue this relationship I have with this person as a friend or as a person who works with me.
 But when I actually take on a project and get my feet dirty and hands wet, and I go out and build something, or I paint, I come back tired, but for some reason, I give myself this secret pat on my shoulder and say, “You did good today, Bobby.” That’s what happened to me when I was five years old. My mother and I went to give groceries in a trailer park in Garden City, Kansas. We walked away, and I felt this hand on my shoulder. It was patting my shoulder, and it said, “You did good today, Bobby.” I looked around, and there was nobody there. That is the feeling I have gotten because of giving my time and efforts, as opposed to writing a check to get you off my back to say, “Go. I put my name someplace.” They go, “Oh wow, $100. Thank you so much.” Then they come back the next year and do the same thing. There is just a real difference between the people who are in the trenches and the people who aren’t.
 Hugh: I think it’s important to give at any level. You say that you won’t get recognized for $25 or $50. But if we get a lot of people who support us with their time, talent, and money—you give your time, talent, and money. There is a triage there that are all magnified by each other. If you have the synergy, if you have one person who gives $25, great. If you have 1,000 people who give $25, then you are paying salary and rent and some operating costs. Then you can rev up the engines and focus on your mission.
 I do find a lot of charities are compromised in many ways, but as you know, the story of SynerVision is we want to empower leaders to step up to the level that they can take the organization. I noticed some of your students are here from the class, and I want to talk about them as well. There is a synergy in those three. We spend time teaching leaders how to raise the bar on their performance so we know how to engage people who are philanthropic-minded. There is a whole lot of stuff there. Jeff, “Bob has given many of us the gift of learning to give, and it is life-changing.” What a quote that is.
 Talk about your students. I got to sit in on three classes last week. You’re doing this Zoom group session education, which is quite remarkable. Your gracious spirit with them, and you see what’s inside them, and you see potential that maybe some of them don’t see in themselves. You said to me you challenged them to think about writing a eulogy, but you also mentioned doing some research on a nonprofit organization. There was a need for you to have to explain what that meant. What is a nonprofit organization? Talk a little bit about the class.
 Bob: I taught at a university here. I was teaching business and professional speaking. I decided I wanted to bring in my love and passion to the course. How am I going to bring my love and passion into the course when philanthropy is not in the syllabus? I included philanthropy in the syllabus. When you talk about business, you are going to talk about nonprofit businesses. They had never heard of a nonprofit business, even though they had. They knew what the Salvation Army and the Red Cross was. They knew what the Boys and Girls Club and Boy Scouts are. But they didn’t know they were nonprofit organizations. They didn’t know there were two million of them in the United States. They didn’t know that half of the things that are positive about our country is philanthropy. I said, “Okay, let’s have you all look at a nonprofit you are connected with.” They had no idea they were even connected with one.
 Landon is a new student this semester in my class right now. You asked him a question and asked him to talk when you were in my class. He did. He has a passion. You can feel it when he talks, about the things he does or can do and wants to do to serve people in our community. What I’m doing is there is maybe a small fire underneath them already, and I’m turning up the heat. They get passionate about it, and I empower them to do something about it once they learn about the fact that they can do it. They can do something on their own. Landon is one of those. He has several physical problems, and one of them is with his eyes. He picked a nonprofit organization that had to do with sight. He loves being involved with something he can connect with and understand. We all do. We all can. I am attention-deficit. There is a nonprofit organization and a school that has to do with children teaching children about dyslexia and Attention Deficit Disorders. There is something I can do. There is something everybody can do because we all have something that we are connected with, and we just didn’t know it.
 Hugh: I was going to come in and say hello, and I stayed the whole class for two of them. We are recording this in the middle of being sequestered home. It’s a time of refreshing, renewal, revising, and thinking about how when we go back to work, how we are going to define the new normal. We are leaders. We will reset the bar. I don’t think we’re going to go back to what we did before. Most of the people in the book didn’t do things in ordinary ways; that’s why they are in the book. These stories will inspire others not just to do the same old thing that they always had observed, but to think about what they bring to the table that’s really special. What is the new opportunity? Bob, let’s dig into some more of these stories. The book is divided into sections. Talk a little bit about why that is and why that’s important.
 Bob: I had some great people working with me. Tom Dolphins from Kansas City designed the book. The book is so attractive that people want to find out what it is. It’s not just the words, but it’s the design. And Ann Vigola from Lawrence, Kansas started out as my editor. She happened to be a student of mine prior to that. Ann spent a lot of time figuring out how to organize this book because as being an attention-deficit person, I have all this information up here. I didn’t know how to organize it. It was organized starting out with topics. We did One Day at a Time because I am a recovering alcoholic, and I wanted to talk a little bit about that topic. One Day at a Time also had to do with the AIDS epidemic. I had a brother who died of AIDS, and I wanted to focus on that. Every person in here has had something to do in my life. People would say, “You didn’t do so-and-so. They are such a great person.” I said, “I know, but I didn’t work with them.” All of these people, I worked with. All the stories in here, many of them, I had something to do with.
 Chip got me involved in the Phoenix Project, or maybe I got him involved, which was helping warriors coming home from war, connecting them with their spouses on retreats with horses and massages. Chip actually put together a video about this whole thing. I was involved with that. I went to the sweat lodges with these warriors and watched them connect and relate to each other. They are all stories I have been involved with in one way or another, and that’s one story I like a lot.
 Jordie worked with me with the poorest of the poor kids in Mexico in Guanajuato, Mexico, Leon. We would go to the poorest school, and I would tell the teachers, “I want to take your kids for just an hour once a week and bring in 20 of my students. We will teach them philanthropy.” We watched children change because of a handshake. Jordie was able to volunteer his time, even though he was a student of mine, to put this fabulous piece together that is on YouTube. These are all stories we were able to capture. I wish I’d had these two men together with me for all of the stories because somebody’s contacted me and said, “We need to make a movie here with these short stories.” Some of them still have long-lasting things. One of the people in Mexico said, “Just teaching a child to do a handshake and watch her change as a person week after week after week has changed me as a person,” she said. It does. When you do philanthropy, it changes you.
 Hugh: That’s a great sound bite. Serving churches in music ministry for 40 years, I took many mission trips. We went to give them, but we came back having received a lot more than we tried to give away. There is a reciprocity to giving. You’re a giver, but you’re blessed by your giving. You’re enriched by your giving. You give stuff away, but it really impacts you. When I am with you, you’re just full of energy. You’re this most passionate energized person purposeful person. What more about the book? Was there a story here delving into their story for the book, that really moved you more than any other story?  
 Bob: Yeah. We took a vote in our little group who put this book together, Ann, Tom, and I. There is one called “Bridging the Gap.” It is written by Morgan Herm. He is a schoolteacher. He talks about a bridge that is in Pennsylvania, where he lives. He would go and meditate there. On this bridge, he noticed that somebody had put in a letter between the planks. He opened the letter, and it was a letter that a person had written about them being able to become at peace with themselves because of meditating on this bridge. He put the letter back. Then there was a collection of letters that people would put in about how this bridge had brought them peace. It helped them through their divorce, or it helped them through their domestic violence. Morgan finally built a mailbox so people could put their letters in the mailbox. They could read each other’s letters. That’s philanthropy. That bridge serves as a philanthropic metaphor or example of peace and love. That’s one of my favorites, and it’s written so well because Morgan is an English teacher and writer.
 Hugh: Each contributor wrote their own story.
 Bob: They wrote their own stories. There was a couple of them that I wrote. There was a woman named Ruth Altschuter in Dallas who died last year. I wanted her in the book. So I went to her husband and said, “Would you write this for me?” He said, “No, I can’t write anymore. I don’t write.” I said, “Let me write Ruth’s story, and you approve it.” He said okay. But most people wrote their own stories.
 One lady wrote a story that I told her should be 1,000 words. It was 5,000 words. I read it and realized I couldn’t cut anything out. It’s the history of Swiss Avenue, which is one of the oldest historic districts in the United States. She called it, “Philanthropy Built Her Neighborhood.” It’s about how the mansions and big houses on Swiss Avenue became run-down in the ‘30s, ‘40s, and ‘50s. You could buy a piece of property here for $10 or 25,000, which are now going for $2 million, back in the old days. She wanted to tell the story about how it became a fabulous neighborhood that is looked upon as one of the premier places in the United States. It ended up being 10 pages, and I left the 5,000 words. It is the longest story. It wasn’t meant to be that way, but it’s really well done, so I didn’t cut it out.
 Hugh: You said here. Is it in Dallas?
 Bob: Yes. I live in that district. I live in the Swiss Avenue historic district.
 Hugh: Wow, that’s fascinating. Landon has a question. Landon, you’re live, so if you have your mic on, do you want to talk to us?
 Landon Shepherd: My question is, let’s say I have an idea for a nonprofit I would like to start. But I don’t really know exactly how or where to start it, or who to talk to about getting started with what I want to do. What would be your advice to some of the students who may have these ideas, but don’t know how to work out these ideas?
 Hugh: That question is for your professor?
 Landon: Either one of you guys.
 Hugh: We’ll tag-team on it. Go ahead, Bob.
 Bob: He’s a student of mine, and I will definitely have a talk about that. But we have in Dallas and in Fort Worth and every major city in the United States a center for nonprofit management. The centers for nonprofit management in each of the major cities are where people can go learn about giving and learn how to start an organization, a 501(c)3, the who, what, when, where, why. They have seminars all the time. You can go to the Community Foundation of Texas. You can go to the Dallas Foundation. These are other avenues of where people are experts in this. Yes, there is a way to do that. Landon, I will tell you who to contact here in Dallas.
 Hugh: There are centers like that in every city. There is also a universal presence called SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We have a blue button at the top of our page labeled, “Join.” We have this community with all kinds of resources. Sometimes, we find how to do strategy or how to do leadership or how to do fundraising or how to do a brand or marketing. We put it in one contiguous process so you don’t have to look around. You can look at our site and see if that suits you. Combine working in person with one of these centers Bob is talking about. That would give you a leg up.
 Bob, I know half of the nonprofits started each year will close ultimately. My take on it is they haven’t done a good job of looking at the market to make sure it’s not being duplicated, and they haven’t really activated their board and set themselves up for success. What is your idea of why some of those close?
 Bob: You’re right. They usually are started by people who don’t have any information. They have a passion, which you have to have for the topic. People who have cancer, they want to start a nonprofit organization that has to do with cancer and raise money in the name of somebody. The Susan G. Komen Foundation was started by Nancy Brinker here in Dallas because her sister Susan G. Komen had breast cancer. She told her before she died, “I am going to find you a cure for this.” What Nancy did was she surrounded herself with experts who knew how to put together a nonprofit. Now, it is the best one in the world.
 I can tell you five or six right off the top of my head that didn’t last for more than a year because they didn’t have a board of directors, they didn’t know how to do their paperwork, they started raising money without knowing how to be a fundraiser. Let me tell Landon and everybody this. There is an association called the Association of Fundraising Professionals (AFP) in the United States. 35,000 professional fundraising people. I was a member of this group for most of my years as the president here in Dallas, and went to all the major conferences. There are conferences every year with AFP. There is a luncheon in most major cities every month that bring together all the people who raise money for the nonprofits in any city. There is a program with a speaker. It is a time to network, the people who have been there and done it before. That’s how you do it.
 Hugh: Building a network around you. There is a peer-to-peer network, which is great, but you want to have a network of people who are even better than you. In my case, it’s not hard to do. But hang around people who have been there, done that, and are experts.
 We have Jeffrey Fulgham watching who has a question. I want to allow you to talk. Jeffrey has been a member of that and is a certified fundraiser. Why is it important for you? You went through the certification process and studied development for so many years. Do you want to comment on the organization and why it’s so important for people to understand now?
 Jeffrey Fulgham: I have always looked at it as a cliché of the good housekeeping seal of approval. I think this gets more important every day. This needs to be a profession, and it needs to be professional, not just in fundraisers but in nonprofits. There has to be some standard. We hope it’s a standard of excellence, but there has to be some standard by which people can look and say, “Okay, this is an organization, or an individual, who is committed to certain principles, certain basic values, that transcend whatever it is that that organization is involved in.” Obviously, there are certain organizations whose values are going to be different than another one. But those values are related to the mission, not the operating strategy or the integrity of the entity or the integrity of the individuals working within it. What it allows us to do is create that standard. When someone looks at an organization, they have Guidestar to go to and the other metric organizations. But they also have a way to look and say, “Hey, this is what these organizations support. These are the values they support. This organization belongs to them and subscribes to these values. They subscribe to certain values. They set the standard.” Of course, the CFRE sets the standard as well. I think it’s important for people who are giving, but also for people who want to get involved as volunteers, who want to go work somewhere. Do you want to work for an organization who subscribes to certain values and has that level of integrity? That’s the main reason why I think it’s all important.
 Hugh: Great. Before I let you go back into your listening mode, do you have a question for our guest today about philanthropy or about his book?
 Jeffrey: You know, that’s the first time I’ve heard of this book. I’m definitely going to have to get a copy of it. I think it’s really interesting that you mentioned that philanthropy is not necessarily about money. I always tell people that fundraising is not about money; it usually ends in money, but it’s about relationships and about creating relationships that are long-lasting. Those relationships should transcend the money in that just because in a bad year, and we’re having one by the way, where people are not going to make gifts to organizations they care about because they have to take care of their families and their friends. They will give more money to their church. They will make hard decisions about who they are giving to. If that person doesn’t make a gift to my organization but they have been supporting me for 20 years, do I abandon them and ignore them because they are not giving money through our fundraising? No. Because I have a relationship with them that transcends their financial giving, or possibly their volunteerism. It becomes a different thing. Philanthropy is definitely a mindset beyond money, and I love that you are bringing that to the surface so people can understand what it’s about.
 Hugh: I’m glad you asked me where to get the book. There is a website called PhilanthropyMisunderstood.org. You can find out how to get the book there.
 Bob: Thank you, Jeffrey. I want to know more about you as well. I am a member of AFP and of CFRE as well. There are a couple of people in the book who are CFRE, Scott Staub and Alfonse Brown. They have great stories in there not about fundraising. As you say, it was about relationship-building and the volunteerism they participated in as well.
 Hugh: Not everybody wrote a story in there. There is a story about a horse. Who wrote that?
 Bob: I wrote that one. It’s my best story. I wanted Philanthropy to be on my front cover, and Philanthropy happens to be my horse. This woman by the name of Tracy Carruth, who is a big philanthropist in Dallas, breeds horses. I happen to have an Arabian horse. She breeds Arabian horses. Napatoff, who is her most beautiful world champion horse, was retiring. Before he died, or left the breeding ring, she wanted to make sure that I got an offspring from Napatoff. She gave me the semen from Napatoff to go into Sherry Rochesta, who was my Arabian. Through that, we got a beautiful horse that I named Philanthropy. I wanted to start that as my first story. My editor didn’t like it, so we put it into the back. I am there with Tracy Carruth and our horses. That’s the story.
 Hugh: The standards for everything, the quality of the writing and the photographs, the design of the book, all of these sections in the book. You start out with Circle of Influence. Jeffrey headed us that way. It’s not about money; it’s about relationship. When you and I had lunch recently, we talked about relationship. You now have a relationship with all these people, and they wanted to be in your book. Why is relationship important to our work? Relationship in our teaching at SynerVision, it’s the underpinning of leadership and ministry, and it’s the support for communications. Funding and philanthropy happens as a result of relationship. Say a little more about relationship and how it’s important.
 Bob: Debbie Mrazek, who is one of the writers, wrote a part in the book called “Your Circle of Influence.” Who are all those people who will take care of you, who will take you to the airport and lend you sugar and tell you where to get the plumber? I had my students write down 100 people they know, wheedle it down to 25, and then 15 who will be in their circle of influence. I teach networking. It’s not what you know; it’s who you know. That’s the first thing and last thing I say in my classes. My students, I say, “How many people do you know?” They didn’t know 100 people. One of them knew seven. My family members. No, I don’t want to meet anybody. No, I don’t need people.
 I said to the class, “I’m going to take students to Nepal. It will cost $1,500. How many of you can raise the money to make it happen?” I went to this girl who said she knew seven people, and she didn’t want to know any more people. She said, “I don’t know anybody. I don’t want to know anybody. I guess I’m not going to Nepal.” I said, “I guess you’re not.” We took people to Nepal because my students most of the time realize that they have a great number of people around them who care about them, but there is a methodology of how to influence people and how to cultivate people and how to get them to be your friends, and more than friends, how to be a good friend, how to help people, and actually go around hunting for things to do for people. That’s what I want my students to become. I don’t think that we get anywhere in life without others. That’s one of the key principles that I teach in my communication classes.
 Hugh: Your class that I sat in on is really about communications. You’re really promoting good thinking skills. Communication to me is based on relationship. We can send a whole bunch of emails that nobody reads. It’s not about data.
 Bob: No. I send emails, and I pick up the phone. We used to send faxes. We used to go knock on their door. We used to drive by. I think that this time right now, we’re trying to figure out how to continue life in solitude since we are told to stay home, and stay home alone. I think we’re finding this television and this computer even more important than ever since this is how we’re able to stay in touch, through this cell phone we love so much and this computer. However, I can go next door and knock on the door and take them a cake and say, “I was thinking of you and realize you may not have any desserts at your house today.” Sometimes, I’ll have my lawnmower man come out and next door, they don’t mow their lawn very much. “Go mow their lawn. I’ll pay you.” The people come home and say, “I can’t believe you had somebody mow my lawn.” It was a philanthropic idea I had, was to love mankind and do something for the person next door.
 Hugh: Bob is an inspiration. My ideas are popping. You have 100 creative ideas every six seconds. You’re prolific. In these stories, 100+ stories from people who helped change the world. We are all doing our part. It’s not one person. But one person can start a movement. My friend in Lynchburg, he was the person who founded Stop Hunger Now, which is now Rise Against Hunger. Before we had a setback with coronavirus, they were on target to package 750 million meals. Their vision is to end hunger in our lifetime. It’s not just about packaging the meals; it’s about a lot more than that. One person thought of that and founded it, and it’s now a major movement that will exist long past his lifetime, which is what he wanted. It’s a legacy. What are the legacy possibilities for any of us who say, “I want to do something for humankind and have it keep going?” Are there possibilities for all of us?
 Bob: I always say, “What are you doing for the person who just passed away in your life? What will you do for your mother? What will you do for your father?” I got involved with building schools in Nepal with Don Wilkes.
 Let me tell you about Don Lueke since he is here. Don Lueke is from Kansas City; he and I met probably 30 years ago because he taught children at his school about giving. It’s the Junior Leadership. It’s similar to my PAVE program (Philanthropy and Volunteers Education). For the last 15-20 years, he and a man by the name of Steve O’Neill, who are businesspeople in Kansas City, take time out of their week every week to teach children at the Catholic school where their children go about giving back. This has become so sophisticated that this last year, I was a part of a seminar they had at the University of Missouri in Kansas City, where all of his students, maybe 30 or 40 of them, came and gave presentations on nonprofit organizations they had helped in the community. He does similar things to me: empower young people to get involved in the community. There is a double page about him and this group he is doing it with.
 Don Wilkes in Nepal for example. What can you do to honor somebody? He said, “If you can make a contribution of a couple thousand dollars, we will put someone’s name on a classroom in a school we are building in Nepal.” I called my brother and sister and said, “For $2,000, we can put our mother’s name on a classroom in Nepal.” My brother says, “I want to see a video of what it looks like.” I sent him the video, and he called me back immediately and said, “Let’s do it.” My sister said, “Sight unseen, let’s do it. We want to honor our mother.” For $2,000, our mother’s name is on a school’s room in Nepal. I know because I went to Nepal to see it. I had to go see my mother’s name. When I got out of the car, and the children were clapping for me because I was amongst them, because I gave a simple $2,000 and put my mother’s name on the deal, gave me such joy that we decided to do it again. I put my cousin’s name and my aunt’s name in another classroom on another school they are building in Nepal. That is a way you can provide not necessarily for yourself, but for somebody else that meant a lot in this society. Everybody we run around with meant a lot in this society. They did something in their lives that changed the world.
 Hugh: Absolutely. That’s an inspiration. Are you willing to entertain questions if I open everybody’s mic?
 Bob: Absolutely.
 Eric Groover: Bob, this is Eric Groover from the University of North Texas. How are you doing, Bob?
 Bob: Hi, Eric. It’s good to see you again.
 Eric: Hugh, I just want to say thank you for hosting Bob. Bob and I are new acquaintances through some of our students at the Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science here at the University of North Texas in Denton. Just north of the DFW metroplex. Bob was actually scheduled to come speak to some students on our campus last week, and unfortunately we had to cancel that. Bob was gracious enough to bring up some of the books that we purchased for our students and faculty and staff. We spent a few minutes violating the university’s shelter-in-place order, visiting in my office for 20-30 minutes. I just wanted to say, Bob, that it’s been lovely watching you today and hearing your stories again. Just a huge thank-you to Hugh for hosting this event. He does you credit, and I’m glad for that. Thank you very much.
 Hugh: Thank you, Eric. Blessings.
 Nancy Hopkins: This is Nancy Carol Hopkins. Yes, I am Bob’s sister. I am watching from Tucson, Arizona. Obviously, Bob has been an influence in a lot of people’s lives, including mine and our younger brother. I wanted to make a comment on the volunteerism point. First of all, Bob gets asked frequently how come he stays so young and is so active at his age and has so much energy. If you look up and do some research on volunteerism, there is a lot of research that shows that volunteerism actually helps you medically, emotionally, physically, keeps you young literally. It does. There is medical research to prove that. If anybody wants to know how Bob stays so young and energetic, it has nothing to do with vitamins and pills he is taking. It has everything to do with the work that he does.
 Hugh: Very helpful, Nancy. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing that.
 Nancy: You’re welcome.
 Hugh: You don’t have to take tonic if you hang around Bob Hopkins.
 Nancy: That’s right. You don’t.
 Hugh: That’s so rich. By the way, our governor slapped a stay-at-home order on us until June 10. The exception is volunteerism. If you volunteer for a charity, you can get out and do it. That was a good thing, I thought.
 Penny Rambacker: Hi, this is Penny Rambacker. How are you doing, Bob?
 Bob: They said Penny. I was hoping it was you.
 Penny: I’d like to make another comment about the idea of having purpose. I think Bob has a purpose, as many of us philanthropists have. I have been reading a book recently that said two of the things you can do to be the happiest in life are 1) to have a purpose and to feel needed, and that keeps you young and alive, and 2) is to be grateful. Those of us that practice gratitude and appreciate what we have are oftentimes people who are giving because they have seen other people with greater needs than their own. They become grateful for all of the things they have in their life. I had a huge gratitude lesson back when I first got into this. That was when I visited the garbage dump in Guatemala City. I saw children living there. It really touched my heart, and I had to do something about it. I found my purpose, and I felt grateful for the life I have. Two good things to think about when you are doing philanthropy. Yep, that’s me and my kids.
 Hugh: What page is that on, Bob?
 Bob: Pages 48-49.
 Hugh: Love it. Great stories. Penny, where are you?
 Penny: I am in Naples, Florida. We work in Guatemala. My charity has built 57 schools in the mountains of Guatemala. We also sell handicrafts. We just sent an e-newsletter telling people to visit our store online. It’s virus-free. You can go shopping for a greater good. If you want to go shopping, we have great things at Store.MiraclesInAction.org.
 Hugh: Good for you. I have been to Guatemala, and people are very poor. They have lots of wonderful natural resources. They do wonderful clothes with all these designs that are brilliant. What are you showing, Bob?
 Bob: This is Don Lueke’s page. He is on pages 82-83.
 Hugh: Don, do you want to comment?
 Don Lueke: This is a great opportunity to showcase your work, Bob, and the work of everybody in that book. I appreciate the efforts on your part. Just want to add. We talk about having a purpose. I think that is what makes us get up every day, or at least get up quicker. I don’t know if I have a lot more to add. I’m humbled by everybody’s story in the book, so I think I am just one of many.
 Hugh: Thank you for sharing. I am humbled being part of Bob’s network.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 Bob, what is a parting thought you’d like to leave people with today?
 Bob: I am going to do another book called Philanthropy Understood. It’s going to be new people. Some of the old people we want to expand upon, too. I’d like to do something with TAMS. I think TAMS is a great program that Eric Groover has been a part of before. There are so many people that I have been thinking about. That’s what I’m doing right now, and that’s why so many people are here who are in the book because I sent them a memo telling them all that we are needing to stay together on a monthly basis.
 We did have a man pass away yesterday in the book, Charles Lowe. He has spent 45 years working with the disease called neurofibromatosis, and I worked for them for eight years. I was able to tell all of the people in the book about his passing. So many people responded who didn’t even know Charles, but did know his article in the book. I think the more we create this circle of influence around ourselves, the richer our lives are going to be. Also, the kinds of people we depend upon, I always try to find people who are smarter than you who have more things going on for them because they will lift me up instead of running around with people who will pull me down.
 My challenge to everyone is to continue these kinds of groups, and continue doing good together. That is the real fun about philanthropy and being volunteers. It’s a togetherness thing. I did go with Penny to Guatemala, and I loved the experience. She is in the book. I went with her 20 years ago. I included her in the book because that experience changed my life 20 years ago. It’s one of those many things that make up a person. It’s so much fun going back in my history, in my family. My sister is the greatest philanthropist of our family. She is doing more than me even. I think that’s the joy. I don’t even say it’s happy anymore; it’s a joy to walk out on my front porch and say, “God, take me. What is my next step? What do I have to do next?” You know what. Somebody picks me up and takes me. I think that’s the lesson I have learned more than anything: you have to be willing and tell people.
 Hugh: Bob Hopkins, you are a gift to humankind. Thank you so much for being our guest today.
 Bob: Thank you.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2020 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/72d02b5e-b329-11eb-9f0f-875cd4cd4251/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Philanthropy Misunderstood by Bob Hopkins The word PHILANTHROPY isn’t new, but many think being a philanthropist is about money. In Bob Hopkins’ new book, he assures us it IS NOT. He and 100 of his friends define, by way of their good deeds, that...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Philanthropy Misunderstood by Bob Hopkins
 The word PHILANTHROPY isn’t new, but many think being a philanthropist is about money. In Bob Hopkins’ new book, he assures us it IS NOT. He and 100 of his friends define, by way of their good deeds, that philanthropy is about LOVE OF MANKIND. Philanthropy Misunderstood is a 256-page coffee- table book that will surely entertain and inform you. You won’t want to put it down. It is colorful and exciting.
 “Bob Hopkins Introduces us to 100 plus new best friends…people like you and me who give of themselves who actually LOVE others. What a joyful time Bob shares with us. Optimism and hope emerge from every page. Each person’s story sparkles. Each one makes us prouder to be fellow ‘homo-sapiens’.” Dr. Claire Gaudiani, philanthropist, author and international lecturer.
 Bob recalls his first experience with his mother when he was five years old in Garden City, Kansas as they delivered groceries to a poor family during the holidays. He remembers the pat on the back he received from someone for doing good. “Maybe it was God,” he recalled.
 For more information, go to Philanthropy Misunderstood.
  
  Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings. Welcome to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. Wow. This is going to open your mind to a whole new world. I just met Bob Hopkins recently on a recent trip to Dallas. Some of our previous guests that started Barefoot Winery said, “You have to meet Bob.” When I was in Dallas, I rang him up, and we met. They had shared his book with me called Philanthropy Misunderstood. I thought it was a nice book. When I started digging into the stories and what Bob knew about philanthropy, I said, “We have to share this with other people.” Bob, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell people a little bit about you and your passion.
 Bob Hopkins: Thank you, Hugh. I am so honored to be invited to be here with you as your guest today. I am glad to know that there are some other people in the book in your audience today. I am an older person. I have been around for a long time. Every 20 years, I ask myself, “What am I doing, and where am I going?” I have divided myself into four different segments of my life. I am on the last 18 years. I give myself another 18 years to live. I am trying to figure out what to do, so I am probably going to go to a seminar called PSI in June to find out what I’m going to do next.
 But, Hugh, I have been involved with this word “philanthropy” for the last 45-50 years. I learn more about what it means all the time. Then I became confused and realized that what I thought philanthropy was is not. Or maybe it is part of, but that’s why I had to dig into it and tell stories of 108 people who actually do philanthropic things for other people. That’s what this book is about.
 Hugh: How long have you been engaged in the nonprofit arena with leaders and different kinds of organizations?
 Bob: I came to Dallas in 1984. I had just been involved as the director of development on the National Council of Alcoholism and learned all about this word called “fundraising” and philanthropy. Found out that the two of them are together as one word and one meaning, and they are also separate things. Some people get them mixed up. They think that fundraising is about money, but so is philanthropy. I have learned that philanthropy can be about money, but largely not. Instead, it’s doing good things for others. That’s how I got involved with this. I have been in Dallas for 38 years, and I have been working in raising money and now writing a book. I did a magazine called Philanthropy in Texas for a while. Every decade, I learned a little bit more about what that word means.
 Hugh: Bob, you and I are in our mid-70s, we’ll say. We could be sitting back, chilling, and not doing anything. But you and I have a passion for being engaged. Why aren’t you sitting around? You’re teaching classes, and the stuff that you’re asking your students is really profound. You’re active with some local charities still. Why is this important to you?
 Bob: I don’t know. I do it because I don’t know what else to do. I do play tennis, and I do ride horses. Those are two of my hobbies. I do spend time doing those two things every week, so it’s not like I’m constantly thinking about philanthropy, even though I have a horse named Philanthropy. I watch the USTA, and did you know the USTA is a nonprofit organization? They wouldn’t survive if they didn’t get contributions from people. They do good for others. I guess I’m involved with philanthropy pretty much all the time, even though it’s my joy. I love doing it. I like talking about it. I like telling people about it. I like finding people who are doing different new things. I have found so many people over my 40 years that I decided to put them in a book. That’s where Philanthropy Misunderstood came from.
 Hugh: I’ve had the joy of visiting a couple. The whole family does this water project. I won’t get into it, but I want you to tell people. You called them up and said, “You have to meet Hugh.” I went over there, and it was an amazing visit with the whole family. I met the couple. I didn’t meet the kids, but I have heard about them and their involvement. How about highlighting some of the stories? Let’s talk about this one first; they will be guests on the show in June. It’s folding paper. How does that help people?
 Bob: This is a crazy story, and it’s a fabulous story. It’s been so fabulous that it’s been on Good Morning America. Neiman Marcus actually helped these girls sell these ornaments that are called origami that they make. Their church and schools make them with them. They have volunteers of hundreds of people who do nothing but help make origami, and they sell the origami for $50-$75 a piece. To date, they have raised over $2 million building water wells to actually give water around the world. 170 different water wells in 17 or 18 different countries. These girls are 15, 13, and 10 years old. They started it when they were 4, 5, and 6 because Daddy is part Japanese. He said, “We need to do some origami.” One thing led to the other. I’m not sure what the other is and how detailed you have to get in to find out what the thinking was of the parents, about involving their children in making these origami. That’s their life. It is now their life. These girls are so smart because they are in a business. The 15-year-old is the president of the foundation. It’s a cool thing.
 Hugh: I went to visit the whole house and the project. These volunteers come in to do the folding. It’s engaged people in a focus. I don’t know if the people come in and do that right now, but maybe the family can do more while the kids are out of school. There is another story in here that has a big picture, and it’s Bonnie and Michael with Barefoot Winery. They were guests a couple months ago, and they were the ones who connected us. Tell the story about how you got connected and their story in the book.
 Bob: It’s so interesting because Eric is actually the one who introduced me to Bonnie and Michael. He was the marketing director of Barefoot Wine. What Bonnie and Michael did, when they couldn’t sell the wine, because nobody wanted to buy it because there was no place to buy it, and liquor stores didn’t want to buy it because nobody was asking for it. They started giving it away to charities on the beach in beach towns, mainly starting in Florida. He would give it to them for free, and he said, “If you like it, go to your grocery stores and tell them to buy it.” Long story short, over 15 years, it became the #1 wine in America. Bonnie and Michael did it through giving wine away to charitable causes. I know that they had a marketing plan here. They said, “This is cause-related marketing,” which are words we used to use. They didn’t really know it was philanthropy because they really wanted to sell wine. But it also made them feel good, too. I have taken Bonnie and Michael on a philanthropy trip to Mexico. So I got to watch them in action. It didn’t have to do with wine; it had to do with building schools and painting houses for people in Mexico. It’s a great story. They are in the book, and they should be.
 Hugh: The book is what you would call a coffee table book. It is hardbound. It’s a $45 book. The quality of printing and the quality of the stories and an amazing layout and design. It should be $100. It’s one of these treasures. My fourth book, which you have a copy of, Transforming Power, I teach people how to do things. I got to a point where I said, “Hmm, people want to be inspired by stories.” That’s one of the premises behind this show is for people to tell their stories. There are people out there in the trenches who are struggling to make ends meet, to pull people together, to rally volunteers, to rally their boards, to rally their funders. Let’s talk a bit about this title and what’s behind it. What is the biggest misunderstanding on both sides, the funder and people seeking funding?
 Bob: It started with me. I was always told that philanthropy was about money. I started a magazine in Texas all about people who had money and gave it away. I would come into my staff and say, “I think we need to do Boone Pickens on the cover of the magazine. And the first question was, “How much money does he give away?” That was the common question. That was whether or not we were going to put him in the book on how much money they gave away. Finally, after a while, I realized, You know what? I know a lot of people who do so much more than writing a check. They’re never recognized.
 I have this incredible woman from Houston named Carolyn Farb who spends 26 hours a day helping people learn how to raise money, but also build a hospital, and do all kinds of things. She is not known to be a huge giver, even though she is a giver; therefore, her picture would not be on the front cover of anything because of money. But it would be because of the word “philanthropy.” I realized, because of Carolyn, that I was talking to the wrong people. I needed to be talking to people who were in the book. The people in the book probably give money as well, but that wasn’t what I wanted the focus on. I wanted them to tell me why they do what they do. Why do they build origami and build water wells around the world? They don’t get any money for it, and they don’t give any money. They give things. Well, they do give money because they raise money in their case.
 Bonnie and Michael, they give money, too. Instead, they gave wine. Chip Richey gives his time and effort and expertise in filmmaking. He’s made lots of films about the Indians and Oklahoma. He did things for me for my philanthropy courses. There is Jordie Turk who was a student of mine, who volunteered on his own dime to come to Dallas and video my launch party. His name is not even on the piece. But he did it. He loved it. He is happy about it. I think that’s what philanthropy does, moreso than what money does, is gives you joy. That’s what everybody says. I get so much more out of what I did than what I gave.
 Hugh: Philanthropy is both. We have to run the organization. It’s like having a car. You have to put gas in it. But there is a bigger piece to this. It’s not money alone. Sometimes, people want to give money to save their conscience. They want to be doing something, and they’re not really involved with it. So they want to buy a place. but buying a place and stepping up and working. Talk about the synergy of the two of those together.
 Bob: I’m a giver. But nobody would ever recognize me as a financial giver because I give $100 or $200 or $25 or $50 or whatever. I’m involved with a lot of organizations. I give not necessarily because I love the organization, but I love the person who is asking me. So I write a check in order to continue this relationship I have with this person as a friend or as a person who works with me.
 But when I actually take on a project and get my feet dirty and hands wet, and I go out and build something, or I paint, I come back tired, but for some reason, I give myself this secret pat on my shoulder and say, “You did good today, Bobby.” That’s what happened to me when I was five years old. My mother and I went to give groceries in a trailer park in Garden City, Kansas. We walked away, and I felt this hand on my shoulder. It was patting my shoulder, and it said, “You did good today, Bobby.” I looked around, and there was nobody there. That is the feeling I have gotten because of giving my time and efforts, as opposed to writing a check to get you off my back to say, “Go. I put my name someplace.” They go, “Oh wow, $100. Thank you so much.” Then they come back the next year and do the same thing. There is just a real difference between the people who are in the trenches and the people who aren’t.
 Hugh: I think it’s important to give at any level. You say that you won’t get recognized for $25 or $50. But if we get a lot of people who support us with their time, talent, and money—you give your time, talent, and money. There is a triage there that are all magnified by each other. If you have the synergy, if you have one person who gives $25, great. If you have 1,000 people who give $25, then you are paying salary and rent and some operating costs. Then you can rev up the engines and focus on your mission.
 I do find a lot of charities are compromised in many ways, but as you know, the story of SynerVision is we want to empower leaders to step up to the level that they can take the organization. I noticed some of your students are here from the class, and I want to talk about them as well. There is a synergy in those three. We spend time teaching leaders how to raise the bar on their performance so we know how to engage people who are philanthropic-minded. There is a whole lot of stuff there. Jeff, “Bob has given many of us the gift of learning to give, and it is life-changing.” What a quote that is.
 Talk about your students. I got to sit in on three classes last week. You’re doing this Zoom group session education, which is quite remarkable. Your gracious spirit with them, and you see what’s inside them, and you see potential that maybe some of them don’t see in themselves. You said to me you challenged them to think about writing a eulogy, but you also mentioned doing some research on a nonprofit organization. There was a need for you to have to explain what that meant. What is a nonprofit organization? Talk a little bit about the class.
 Bob: I taught at a university here. I was teaching business and professional speaking. I decided I wanted to bring in my love and passion to the course. How am I going to bring my love and passion into the course when philanthropy is not in the syllabus? I included philanthropy in the syllabus. When you talk about business, you are going to talk about nonprofit businesses. They had never heard of a nonprofit business, even though they had. They knew what the Salvation Army and the Red Cross was. They knew what the Boys and Girls Club and Boy Scouts are. But they didn’t know they were nonprofit organizations. They didn’t know there were two million of them in the United States. They didn’t know that half of the things that are positive about our country is philanthropy. I said, “Okay, let’s have you all look at a nonprofit you are connected with.” They had no idea they were even connected with one.
 Landon is a new student this semester in my class right now. You asked him a question and asked him to talk when you were in my class. He did. He has a passion. You can feel it when he talks, about the things he does or can do and wants to do to serve people in our community. What I’m doing is there is maybe a small fire underneath them already, and I’m turning up the heat. They get passionate about it, and I empower them to do something about it once they learn about the fact that they can do it. They can do something on their own. Landon is one of those. He has several physical problems, and one of them is with his eyes. He picked a nonprofit organization that had to do with sight. He loves being involved with something he can connect with and understand. We all do. We all can. I am attention-deficit. There is a nonprofit organization and a school that has to do with children teaching children about dyslexia and Attention Deficit Disorders. There is something I can do. There is something everybody can do because we all have something that we are connected with, and we just didn’t know it.
 Hugh: I was going to come in and say hello, and I stayed the whole class for two of them. We are recording this in the middle of being sequestered home. It’s a time of refreshing, renewal, revising, and thinking about how when we go back to work, how we are going to define the new normal. We are leaders. We will reset the bar. I don’t think we’re going to go back to what we did before. Most of the people in the book didn’t do things in ordinary ways; that’s why they are in the book. These stories will inspire others not just to do the same old thing that they always had observed, but to think about what they bring to the table that’s really special. What is the new opportunity? Bob, let’s dig into some more of these stories. The book is divided into sections. Talk a little bit about why that is and why that’s important.
 Bob: I had some great people working with me. Tom Dolphins from Kansas City designed the book. The book is so attractive that people want to find out what it is. It’s not just the words, but it’s the design. And Ann Vigola from Lawrence, Kansas started out as my editor. She happened to be a student of mine prior to that. Ann spent a lot of time figuring out how to organize this book because as being an attention-deficit person, I have all this information up here. I didn’t know how to organize it. It was organized starting out with topics. We did One Day at a Time because I am a recovering alcoholic, and I wanted to talk a little bit about that topic. One Day at a Time also had to do with the AIDS epidemic. I had a brother who died of AIDS, and I wanted to focus on that. Every person in here has had something to do in my life. People would say, “You didn’t do so-and-so. They are such a great person.” I said, “I know, but I didn’t work with them.” All of these people, I worked with. All the stories in here, many of them, I had something to do with.
 Chip got me involved in the Phoenix Project, or maybe I got him involved, which was helping warriors coming home from war, connecting them with their spouses on retreats with horses and massages. Chip actually put together a video about this whole thing. I was involved with that. I went to the sweat lodges with these warriors and watched them connect and relate to each other. They are all stories I have been involved with in one way or another, and that’s one story I like a lot.
 Jordie worked with me with the poorest of the poor kids in Mexico in Guanajuato, Mexico, Leon. We would go to the poorest school, and I would tell the teachers, “I want to take your kids for just an hour once a week and bring in 20 of my students. We will teach them philanthropy.” We watched children change because of a handshake. Jordie was able to volunteer his time, even though he was a student of mine, to put this fabulous piece together that is on YouTube. These are all stories we were able to capture. I wish I’d had these two men together with me for all of the stories because somebody’s contacted me and said, “We need to make a movie here with these short stories.” Some of them still have long-lasting things. One of the people in Mexico said, “Just teaching a child to do a handshake and watch her change as a person week after week after week has changed me as a person,” she said. It does. When you do philanthropy, it changes you.
 Hugh: That’s a great sound bite. Serving churches in music ministry for 40 years, I took many mission trips. We went to give them, but we came back having received a lot more than we tried to give away. There is a reciprocity to giving. You’re a giver, but you’re blessed by your giving. You’re enriched by your giving. You give stuff away, but it really impacts you. When I am with you, you’re just full of energy. You’re this most passionate energized person purposeful person. What more about the book? Was there a story here delving into their story for the book, that really moved you more than any other story?  
 Bob: Yeah. We took a vote in our little group who put this book together, Ann, Tom, and I. There is one called “Bridging the Gap.” It is written by Morgan Herm. He is a schoolteacher. He talks about a bridge that is in Pennsylvania, where he lives. He would go and meditate there. On this bridge, he noticed that somebody had put in a letter between the planks. He opened the letter, and it was a letter that a person had written about them being able to become at peace with themselves because of meditating on this bridge. He put the letter back. Then there was a collection of letters that people would put in about how this bridge had brought them peace. It helped them through their divorce, or it helped them through their domestic violence. Morgan finally built a mailbox so people could put their letters in the mailbox. They could read each other’s letters. That’s philanthropy. That bridge serves as a philanthropic metaphor or example of peace and love. That’s one of my favorites, and it’s written so well because Morgan is an English teacher and writer.
 Hugh: Each contributor wrote their own story.
 Bob: They wrote their own stories. There was a couple of them that I wrote. There was a woman named Ruth Altschuter in Dallas who died last year. I wanted her in the book. So I went to her husband and said, “Would you write this for me?” He said, “No, I can’t write anymore. I don’t write.” I said, “Let me write Ruth’s story, and you approve it.” He said okay. But most people wrote their own stories.
 One lady wrote a story that I told her should be 1,000 words. It was 5,000 words. I read it and realized I couldn’t cut anything out. It’s the history of Swiss Avenue, which is one of the oldest historic districts in the United States. She called it, “Philanthropy Built Her Neighborhood.” It’s about how the mansions and big houses on Swiss Avenue became run-down in the ‘30s, ‘40s, and ‘50s. You could buy a piece of property here for $10 or 25,000, which are now going for $2 million, back in the old days. She wanted to tell the story about how it became a fabulous neighborhood that is looked upon as one of the premier places in the United States. It ended up being 10 pages, and I left the 5,000 words. It is the longest story. It wasn’t meant to be that way, but it’s really well done, so I didn’t cut it out.
 Hugh: You said here. Is it in Dallas?
 Bob: Yes. I live in that district. I live in the Swiss Avenue historic district.
 Hugh: Wow, that’s fascinating. Landon has a question. Landon, you’re live, so if you have your mic on, do you want to talk to us?
 Landon Shepherd: My question is, let’s say I have an idea for a nonprofit I would like to start. But I don’t really know exactly how or where to start it, or who to talk to about getting started with what I want to do. What would be your advice to some of the students who may have these ideas, but don’t know how to work out these ideas?
 Hugh: That question is for your professor?
 Landon: Either one of you guys.
 Hugh: We’ll tag-team on it. Go ahead, Bob.
 Bob: He’s a student of mine, and I will definitely have a talk about that. But we have in Dallas and in Fort Worth and every major city in the United States a center for nonprofit management. The centers for nonprofit management in each of the major cities are where people can go learn about giving and learn how to start an organization, a 501(c)3, the who, what, when, where, why. They have seminars all the time. You can go to the Community Foundation of Texas. You can go to the Dallas Foundation. These are other avenues of where people are experts in this. Yes, there is a way to do that. Landon, I will tell you who to contact here in Dallas.
 Hugh: There are centers like that in every city. There is also a universal presence called SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We have a blue button at the top of our page labeled, “Join.” We have this community with all kinds of resources. Sometimes, we find how to do strategy or how to do leadership or how to do fundraising or how to do a brand or marketing. We put it in one contiguous process so you don’t have to look around. You can look at our site and see if that suits you. Combine working in person with one of these centers Bob is talking about. That would give you a leg up.
 Bob, I know half of the nonprofits started each year will close ultimately. My take on it is they haven’t done a good job of looking at the market to make sure it’s not being duplicated, and they haven’t really activated their board and set themselves up for success. What is your idea of why some of those close?
 Bob: You’re right. They usually are started by people who don’t have any information. They have a passion, which you have to have for the topic. People who have cancer, they want to start a nonprofit organization that has to do with cancer and raise money in the name of somebody. The Susan G. Komen Foundation was started by Nancy Brinker here in Dallas because her sister Susan G. Komen had breast cancer. She told her before she died, “I am going to find you a cure for this.” What Nancy did was she surrounded herself with experts who knew how to put together a nonprofit. Now, it is the best one in the world.
 I can tell you five or six right off the top of my head that didn’t last for more than a year because they didn’t have a board of directors, they didn’t know how to do their paperwork, they started raising money without knowing how to be a fundraiser. Let me tell Landon and everybody this. There is an association called the Association of Fundraising Professionals (AFP) in the United States. 35,000 professional fundraising people. I was a member of this group for most of my years as the president here in Dallas, and went to all the major conferences. There are conferences every year with AFP. There is a luncheon in most major cities every month that bring together all the people who raise money for the nonprofits in any city. There is a program with a speaker. It is a time to network, the people who have been there and done it before. That’s how you do it.
 Hugh: Building a network around you. There is a peer-to-peer network, which is great, but you want to have a network of people who are even better than you. In my case, it’s not hard to do. But hang around people who have been there, done that, and are experts.
 We have Jeffrey Fulgham watching who has a question. I want to allow you to talk. Jeffrey has been a member of that and is a certified fundraiser. Why is it important for you? You went through the certification process and studied development for so many years. Do you want to comment on the organization and why it’s so important for people to understand now?
 Jeffrey Fulgham: I have always looked at it as a cliché of the good housekeeping seal of approval. I think this gets more important every day. This needs to be a profession, and it needs to be professional, not just in fundraisers but in nonprofits. There has to be some standard. We hope it’s a standard of excellence, but there has to be some standard by which people can look and say, “Okay, this is an organization, or an individual, who is committed to certain principles, certain basic values, that transcend whatever it is that that organization is involved in.” Obviously, there are certain organizations whose values are going to be different than another one. But those values are related to the mission, not the operating strategy or the integrity of the entity or the integrity of the individuals working within it. What it allows us to do is create that standard. When someone looks at an organization, they have Guidestar to go to and the other metric organizations. But they also have a way to look and say, “Hey, this is what these organizations support. These are the values they support. This organization belongs to them and subscribes to these values. They subscribe to certain values. They set the standard.” Of course, the CFRE sets the standard as well. I think it’s important for people who are giving, but also for people who want to get involved as volunteers, who want to go work somewhere. Do you want to work for an organization who subscribes to certain values and has that level of integrity? That’s the main reason why I think it’s all important.
 Hugh: Great. Before I let you go back into your listening mode, do you have a question for our guest today about philanthropy or about his book?
 Jeffrey: You know, that’s the first time I’ve heard of this book. I’m definitely going to have to get a copy of it. I think it’s really interesting that you mentioned that philanthropy is not necessarily about money. I always tell people that fundraising is not about money; it usually ends in money, but it’s about relationships and about creating relationships that are long-lasting. Those relationships should transcend the money in that just because in a bad year, and we’re having one by the way, where people are not going to make gifts to organizations they care about because they have to take care of their families and their friends. They will give more money to their church. They will make hard decisions about who they are giving to. If that person doesn’t make a gift to my organization but they have been supporting me for 20 years, do I abandon them and ignore them because they are not giving money through our fundraising? No. Because I have a relationship with them that transcends their financial giving, or possibly their volunteerism. It becomes a different thing. Philanthropy is definitely a mindset beyond money, and I love that you are bringing that to the surface so people can understand what it’s about.
 Hugh: I’m glad you asked me where to get the book. There is a website called PhilanthropyMisunderstood.org. You can find out how to get the book there.
 Bob: Thank you, Jeffrey. I want to know more about you as well. I am a member of AFP and of CFRE as well. There are a couple of people in the book who are CFRE, Scott Staub and Alfonse Brown. They have great stories in there not about fundraising. As you say, it was about relationship-building and the volunteerism they participated in as well.
 Hugh: Not everybody wrote a story in there. There is a story about a horse. Who wrote that?
 Bob: I wrote that one. It’s my best story. I wanted Philanthropy to be on my front cover, and Philanthropy happens to be my horse. This woman by the name of Tracy Carruth, who is a big philanthropist in Dallas, breeds horses. I happen to have an Arabian horse. She breeds Arabian horses. Napatoff, who is her most beautiful world champion horse, was retiring. Before he died, or left the breeding ring, she wanted to make sure that I got an offspring from Napatoff. She gave me the semen from Napatoff to go into Sherry Rochesta, who was my Arabian. Through that, we got a beautiful horse that I named Philanthropy. I wanted to start that as my first story. My editor didn’t like it, so we put it into the back. I am there with Tracy Carruth and our horses. That’s the story.
 Hugh: The standards for everything, the quality of the writing and the photographs, the design of the book, all of these sections in the book. You start out with Circle of Influence. Jeffrey headed us that way. It’s not about money; it’s about relationship. When you and I had lunch recently, we talked about relationship. You now have a relationship with all these people, and they wanted to be in your book. Why is relationship important to our work? Relationship in our teaching at SynerVision, it’s the underpinning of leadership and ministry, and it’s the support for communications. Funding and philanthropy happens as a result of relationship. Say a little more about relationship and how it’s important.
 Bob: Debbie Mrazek, who is one of the writers, wrote a part in the book called “Your Circle of Influence.” Who are all those people who will take care of you, who will take you to the airport and lend you sugar and tell you where to get the plumber? I had my students write down 100 people they know, wheedle it down to 25, and then 15 who will be in their circle of influence. I teach networking. It’s not what you know; it’s who you know. That’s the first thing and last thing I say in my classes. My students, I say, “How many people do you know?” They didn’t know 100 people. One of them knew seven. My family members. No, I don’t want to meet anybody. No, I don’t need people.
 I said to the class, “I’m going to take students to Nepal. It will cost $1,500. How many of you can raise the money to make it happen?” I went to this girl who said she knew seven people, and she didn’t want to know any more people. She said, “I don’t know anybody. I don’t want to know anybody. I guess I’m not going to Nepal.” I said, “I guess you’re not.” We took people to Nepal because my students most of the time realize that they have a great number of people around them who care about them, but there is a methodology of how to influence people and how to cultivate people and how to get them to be your friends, and more than friends, how to be a good friend, how to help people, and actually go around hunting for things to do for people. That’s what I want my students to become. I don’t think that we get anywhere in life without others. That’s one of the key principles that I teach in my communication classes.
 Hugh: Your class that I sat in on is really about communications. You’re really promoting good thinking skills. Communication to me is based on relationship. We can send a whole bunch of emails that nobody reads. It’s not about data.
 Bob: No. I send emails, and I pick up the phone. We used to send faxes. We used to go knock on their door. We used to drive by. I think that this time right now, we’re trying to figure out how to continue life in solitude since we are told to stay home, and stay home alone. I think we’re finding this television and this computer even more important than ever since this is how we’re able to stay in touch, through this cell phone we love so much and this computer. However, I can go next door and knock on the door and take them a cake and say, “I was thinking of you and realize you may not have any desserts at your house today.” Sometimes, I’ll have my lawnmower man come out and next door, they don’t mow their lawn very much. “Go mow their lawn. I’ll pay you.” The people come home and say, “I can’t believe you had somebody mow my lawn.” It was a philanthropic idea I had, was to love mankind and do something for the person next door.
 Hugh: Bob is an inspiration. My ideas are popping. You have 100 creative ideas every six seconds. You’re prolific. In these stories, 100+ stories from people who helped change the world. We are all doing our part. It’s not one person. But one person can start a movement. My friend in Lynchburg, he was the person who founded Stop Hunger Now, which is now Rise Against Hunger. Before we had a setback with coronavirus, they were on target to package 750 million meals. Their vision is to end hunger in our lifetime. It’s not just about packaging the meals; it’s about a lot more than that. One person thought of that and founded it, and it’s now a major movement that will exist long past his lifetime, which is what he wanted. It’s a legacy. What are the legacy possibilities for any of us who say, “I want to do something for humankind and have it keep going?” Are there possibilities for all of us?
 Bob: I always say, “What are you doing for the person who just passed away in your life? What will you do for your mother? What will you do for your father?” I got involved with building schools in Nepal with Don Wilkes.
 Let me tell you about Don Lueke since he is here. Don Lueke is from Kansas City; he and I met probably 30 years ago because he taught children at his school about giving. It’s the Junior Leadership. It’s similar to my PAVE program (Philanthropy and Volunteers Education). For the last 15-20 years, he and a man by the name of Steve O’Neill, who are businesspeople in Kansas City, take time out of their week every week to teach children at the Catholic school where their children go about giving back. This has become so sophisticated that this last year, I was a part of a seminar they had at the University of Missouri in Kansas City, where all of his students, maybe 30 or 40 of them, came and gave presentations on nonprofit organizations they had helped in the community. He does similar things to me: empower young people to get involved in the community. There is a double page about him and this group he is doing it with.
 Don Wilkes in Nepal for example. What can you do to honor somebody? He said, “If you can make a contribution of a couple thousand dollars, we will put someone’s name on a classroom in a school we are building in Nepal.” I called my brother and sister and said, “For $2,000, we can put our mother’s name on a classroom in Nepal.” My brother says, “I want to see a video of what it looks like.” I sent him the video, and he called me back immediately and said, “Let’s do it.” My sister said, “Sight unseen, let’s do it. We want to honor our mother.” For $2,000, our mother’s name is on a school’s room in Nepal. I know because I went to Nepal to see it. I had to go see my mother’s name. When I got out of the car, and the children were clapping for me because I was amongst them, because I gave a simple $2,000 and put my mother’s name on the deal, gave me such joy that we decided to do it again. I put my cousin’s name and my aunt’s name in another classroom on another school they are building in Nepal. That is a way you can provide not necessarily for yourself, but for somebody else that meant a lot in this society. Everybody we run around with meant a lot in this society. They did something in their lives that changed the world.
 Hugh: Absolutely. That’s an inspiration. Are you willing to entertain questions if I open everybody’s mic?
 Bob: Absolutely.
 Eric Groover: Bob, this is Eric Groover from the University of North Texas. How are you doing, Bob?
 Bob: Hi, Eric. It’s good to see you again.
 Eric: Hugh, I just want to say thank you for hosting Bob. Bob and I are new acquaintances through some of our students at the Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science here at the University of North Texas in Denton. Just north of the DFW metroplex. Bob was actually scheduled to come speak to some students on our campus last week, and unfortunately we had to cancel that. Bob was gracious enough to bring up some of the books that we purchased for our students and faculty and staff. We spent a few minutes violating the university’s shelter-in-place order, visiting in my office for 20-30 minutes. I just wanted to say, Bob, that it’s been lovely watching you today and hearing your stories again. Just a huge thank-you to Hugh for hosting this event. He does you credit, and I’m glad for that. Thank you very much.
 Hugh: Thank you, Eric. Blessings.
 Nancy Hopkins: This is Nancy Carol Hopkins. Yes, I am Bob’s sister. I am watching from Tucson, Arizona. Obviously, Bob has been an influence in a lot of people’s lives, including mine and our younger brother. I wanted to make a comment on the volunteerism point. First of all, Bob gets asked frequently how come he stays so young and is so active at his age and has so much energy. If you look up and do some research on volunteerism, there is a lot of research that shows that volunteerism actually helps you medically, emotionally, physically, keeps you young literally. It does. There is medical research to prove that. If anybody wants to know how Bob stays so young and energetic, it has nothing to do with vitamins and pills he is taking. It has everything to do with the work that he does.
 Hugh: Very helpful, Nancy. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing that.
 Nancy: You’re welcome.
 Hugh: You don’t have to take tonic if you hang around Bob Hopkins.
 Nancy: That’s right. You don’t.
 Hugh: That’s so rich. By the way, our governor slapped a stay-at-home order on us until June 10. The exception is volunteerism. If you volunteer for a charity, you can get out and do it. That was a good thing, I thought.
 Penny Rambacker: Hi, this is Penny Rambacker. How are you doing, Bob?
 Bob: They said Penny. I was hoping it was you.
 Penny: I’d like to make another comment about the idea of having purpose. I think Bob has a purpose, as many of us philanthropists have. I have been reading a book recently that said two of the things you can do to be the happiest in life are 1) to have a purpose and to feel needed, and that keeps you young and alive, and 2) is to be grateful. Those of us that practice gratitude and appreciate what we have are oftentimes people who are giving because they have seen other people with greater needs than their own. They become grateful for all of the things they have in their life. I had a huge gratitude lesson back when I first got into this. That was when I visited the garbage dump in Guatemala City. I saw children living there. It really touched my heart, and I had to do something about it. I found my purpose, and I felt grateful for the life I have. Two good things to think about when you are doing philanthropy. Yep, that’s me and my kids.
 Hugh: What page is that on, Bob?
 Bob: Pages 48-49.
 Hugh: Love it. Great stories. Penny, where are you?
 Penny: I am in Naples, Florida. We work in Guatemala. My charity has built 57 schools in the mountains of Guatemala. We also sell handicrafts. We just sent an e-newsletter telling people to visit our store online. It’s virus-free. You can go shopping for a greater good. If you want to go shopping, we have great things at Store.MiraclesInAction.org.
 Hugh: Good for you. I have been to Guatemala, and people are very poor. They have lots of wonderful natural resources. They do wonderful clothes with all these designs that are brilliant. What are you showing, Bob?
 Bob: This is Don Lueke’s page. He is on pages 82-83.
 Hugh: Don, do you want to comment?
 Don Lueke: This is a great opportunity to showcase your work, Bob, and the work of everybody in that book. I appreciate the efforts on your part. Just want to add. We talk about having a purpose. I think that is what makes us get up every day, or at least get up quicker. I don’t know if I have a lot more to add. I’m humbled by everybody’s story in the book, so I think I am just one of many.
 Hugh: Thank you for sharing. I am humbled being part of Bob’s network.
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 Bob, what is a parting thought you’d like to leave people with today?
 Bob: I am going to do another book called Philanthropy Understood. It’s going to be new people. Some of the old people we want to expand upon, too. I’d like to do something with TAMS. I think TAMS is a great program that Eric Groover has been a part of before. There are so many people that I have been thinking about. That’s what I’m doing right now, and that’s why so many people are here who are in the book because I sent them a memo telling them all that we are needing to stay together on a monthly basis.
 We did have a man pass away yesterday in the book, Charles Lowe. He has spent 45 years working with the disease called neurofibromatosis, and I worked for them for eight years. I was able to tell all of the people in the book about his passing. So many people responded who didn’t even know Charles, but did know his article in the book. I think the more we create this circle of influence around ourselves, the richer our lives are going to be. Also, the kinds of people we depend upon, I always try to find people who are smarter than you who have more things going on for them because they will lift me up instead of running around with people who will pull me down.
 My challenge to everyone is to continue these kinds of groups, and continue doing good together. That is the real fun about philanthropy and being volunteers. It’s a togetherness thing. I did go with Penny to Guatemala, and I loved the experience. She is in the book. I went with her 20 years ago. I included her in the book because that experience changed my life 20 years ago. It’s one of those many things that make up a person. It’s so much fun going back in my history, in my family. My sister is the greatest philanthropist of our family. She is doing more than me even. I think that’s the joy. I don’t even say it’s happy anymore; it’s a joy to walk out on my front porch and say, “God, take me. What is my next step? What do I have to do next?” You know what. Somebody picks me up and takes me. I think that’s the lesson I have learned more than anything: you have to be willing and tell people.
 Hugh: Bob Hopkins, you are a gift to humankind. Thank you so much for being our guest today.
 Bob: Thank you.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Philanthropy Misunderstood by Bob Hopkins</strong></p> <p>The word <strong>PHILANTHROPY</strong> isn’t new, but many think being a philanthropist is about money. In <strong>Bob Hopkins</strong>’ new book, he assures us it IS NOT. He and 100 of his friends define, by way of their good deeds, that philanthropy is about LOVE OF MANKIND. Philanthropy Misunderstood is a 256-page coffee- table book that will surely entertain and inform you. You won’t want to put it down. It is colorful and exciting.</p> <p>“Bob Hopkins Introduces us to 100 plus new best friends…people like you and me who give of themselves who actually LOVE others. What a joyful time Bob shares with us. Optimism and hope emerge from every page. Each person’s story sparkles. Each one makes us prouder to be fellow ‘homo-sapiens’.” Dr. Claire Gaudiani, philanthropist, author and international lecturer.</p> <p>Bob recalls his first experience with his mother when he was five years old in Garden City, Kansas as they delivered groceries to a poor family during the holidays. He remembers the pat on the back he received from someone for doing good. “Maybe it was God,” he recalled.</p> <p><a href="https://philanthropymisunderstood.org/">For more information, go to</a> <a href="https://philanthropymisunderstood.org/">Philanthropy Misunderstood.</a></p> <p> </p>  Read the Interview <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings. Welcome to this episode of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em>. Wow. This is going to open your mind to a whole new world. I just met Bob Hopkins recently on a recent trip to Dallas. Some of our previous guests that started Barefoot Winery said, “You have to meet Bob.” When I was in Dallas, I rang him up, and we met. They had shared his book with me called <em>Philanthropy Misunderstood.</em> I thought it was a nice book. When I started digging into the stories and what Bob knew about philanthropy, I said, “We have to share this with other people.” Bob, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Tell people a little bit about you and your passion.</p> <p><strong>Bob Hopkins:</strong> Thank you, Hugh. I am so honored to be invited to be here with you as your guest today. I am glad to know that there are some other people in the book in your audience today. I am an older person. I have been around for a long time. Every 20 years, I ask myself, “What am I doing, and where am I going?” I have divided myself into four different segments of my life. I am on the last 18 years. I give myself another 18 years to live. I am trying to figure out what to do, so I am probably going to go to a seminar called PSI in June to find out what I’m going to do next.</p> <p>But, Hugh, I have been involved with this word “philanthropy” for the last 45-50 years. I learn more about what it means all the time. Then I became confused and realized that what I thought philanthropy was is not. Or maybe it is part of, but that’s why I had to dig into it and tell stories of 108 people who actually do philanthropic things for other people. That’s what this book is about.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> How long have you been engaged in the nonprofit arena with leaders and different kinds of organizations?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I came to Dallas in 1984. I had just been involved as the director of development on the National Council of Alcoholism and learned all about this word called “fundraising” and philanthropy. Found out that the two of them are together as one word and one meaning, and they are also separate things. Some people get them mixed up. They think that fundraising is about money, but so is philanthropy. I have learned that philanthropy can be about money, but largely not. Instead, it’s doing good things for others. That’s how I got involved with this. I have been in Dallas for 38 years, and I have been working in raising money and now writing a book. I did a magazine called <em>Philanthropy</em> in Texas for a while. Every decade, I learned a little bit more about what that word means.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Bob, you and I are in our mid-70s, we’ll say. We could be sitting back, chilling, and not doing anything. But you and I have a passion for being engaged. Why aren’t you sitting around? You’re teaching classes, and the stuff that you’re asking your students is really profound. You’re active with some local charities still. Why is this important to you?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I don’t know. I do it because I don’t know what else to do. I do play tennis, and I do ride horses. Those are two of my hobbies. I do spend time doing those two things every week, so it’s not like I’m constantly thinking about philanthropy, even though I have a horse named Philanthropy. I watch the USTA, and did you know the USTA is a nonprofit organization? They wouldn’t survive if they didn’t get contributions from people. They do good for others. I guess I’m involved with philanthropy pretty much all the time, even though it’s my joy. I love doing it. I like talking about it. I like telling people about it. I like finding people who are doing different new things. I have found so many people over my 40 years that I decided to put them in a book. That’s where <em>Philanthropy Misunderstood</em> came from.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’ve had the joy of visiting a couple. The whole family does this water project. I won’t get into it, but I want you to tell people. You called them up and said, “You have to meet Hugh.” I went over there, and it was an amazing visit with the whole family. I met the couple. I didn’t meet the kids, but I have heard about them and their involvement. How about highlighting some of the stories? Let’s talk about this one first; they will be guests on the show in June. It’s folding paper. How does that help people?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> This is a crazy story, and it’s a fabulous story. It’s been so fabulous that it’s been on <em>Good Morning America.</em> Neiman Marcus actually helped these girls sell these ornaments that are called origami that they make. Their church and schools make them with them. They have volunteers of hundreds of people who do nothing but help make origami, and they sell the origami for $50-$75 a piece. To date, they have raised over $2 million building water wells to actually give water around the world. 170 different water wells in 17 or 18 different countries. These girls are 15, 13, and 10 years old. They started it when they were 4, 5, and 6 because Daddy is part Japanese. He said, “We need to do some origami.” One thing led to the other. I’m not sure what the other is and how detailed you have to get in to find out what the thinking was of the parents, about involving their children in making these origami. That’s their life. It is now their life. These girls are so smart because they are in a business. The 15-year-old is the president of the foundation. It’s a cool thing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I went to visit the whole house and the project. These volunteers come in to do the folding. It’s engaged people in a focus. I don’t know if the people come in and do that right now, but maybe the family can do more while the kids are out of school. There is another story in here that has a big picture, and it’s Bonnie and Michael with Barefoot Winery. They were guests a couple months ago, and they were the ones who connected us. Tell the story about how you got connected and their story in the book.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> It’s so interesting because Eric is actually the one who introduced me to Bonnie and Michael. He was the marketing director of Barefoot Wine. What Bonnie and Michael did, when they couldn’t sell the wine, because nobody wanted to buy it because there was no place to buy it, and liquor stores didn’t want to buy it because nobody was asking for it. They started giving it away to charities on the beach in beach towns, mainly starting in Florida. He would give it to them for free, and he said, “If you like it, go to your grocery stores and tell them to buy it.” Long story short, over 15 years, it became the #1 wine in America. Bonnie and Michael did it through giving wine away to charitable causes. I know that they had a marketing plan here. They said, “This is cause-related marketing,” which are words we used to use. They didn’t really know it was philanthropy because they really wanted to sell wine. But it also made them feel good, too. I have taken Bonnie and Michael on a philanthropy trip to Mexico. So I got to watch them in action. It didn’t have to do with wine; it had to do with building schools and painting houses for people in Mexico. It’s a great story. They are in the book, and they should be.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The book is what you would call a coffee table book. It is hardbound. It’s a $45 book. The quality of printing and the quality of the stories and an amazing layout and design. It should be $100. It’s one of these treasures. My fourth book, which you have a copy of, <em>Transforming Power,</em> I teach people how to do things. I got to a point where I said, “Hmm, people want to be inspired by stories.” That’s one of the premises behind this show is for people to tell their stories. There are people out there in the trenches who are struggling to make ends meet, to pull people together, to rally volunteers, to rally their boards, to rally their funders. Let’s talk a bit about this title and what’s behind it. What is the biggest misunderstanding on both sides, the funder and people seeking funding?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> It started with me. I was always told that philanthropy was about money. I started a magazine in Texas all about people who had money and gave it away. I would come into my staff and say, “I think we need to do Boone Pickens on the cover of the magazine. And the first question was, “How much money does he give away?” That was the common question. That was whether or not we were going to put him in the book on how much money they gave away. Finally, after a while, I realized, You know what? I know a lot of people who do so much more than writing a check. They’re never recognized.</p> <p>I have this incredible woman from Houston named Carolyn Farb who spends 26 hours a day helping people learn how to raise money, but also build a hospital, and do all kinds of things. She is not known to be a huge giver, even though she is a giver; therefore, her picture would not be on the front cover of anything because of money. But it would be because of the word “philanthropy.” I realized, because of Carolyn, that I was talking to the wrong people. I needed to be talking to people who were in the book. The people in the book probably give money as well, but that wasn’t what I wanted the focus on. I wanted them to tell me why they do what they do. Why do they build origami and build water wells around the world? They don’t get any money for it, and they don’t give any money. They give things. Well, they do give money because they raise money in their case.</p> <p>Bonnie and Michael, they give money, too. Instead, they gave wine. Chip Richey gives his time and effort and expertise in filmmaking. He’s made lots of films about the Indians and Oklahoma. He did things for me for my philanthropy courses. There is Jordie Turk who was a student of mine, who volunteered on his own dime to come to Dallas and video my launch party. His name is not even on the piece. But he did it. He loved it. He is happy about it. I think that’s what philanthropy does, moreso than what money does, is gives you joy. That’s what everybody says. I get so much more out of what I did than what I gave.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Philanthropy is both. We have to run the organization. It’s like having a car. You have to put gas in it. But there is a bigger piece to this. It’s not money alone. Sometimes, people want to give money to save their conscience. They want to be doing something, and they’re not really involved with it. So they want to buy a place. but buying a place and stepping up and working. Talk about the synergy of the two of those together.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I’m a giver. But nobody would ever recognize me as a financial giver because I give $100 or $200 or $25 or $50 or whatever. I’m involved with a lot of organizations. I give not necessarily because I love the organization, but I love the person who is asking me. So I write a check in order to continue this relationship I have with this person as a friend or as a person who works with me.</p> <p>But when I actually take on a project and get my feet dirty and hands wet, and I go out and build something, or I paint, I come back tired, but for some reason, I give myself this secret pat on my shoulder and say, “You did good today, Bobby.” That’s what happened to me when I was five years old. My mother and I went to give groceries in a trailer park in Garden City, Kansas. We walked away, and I felt this hand on my shoulder. It was patting my shoulder, and it said, “You did good today, Bobby.” I looked around, and there was nobody there. That is the feeling I have gotten because of giving my time and efforts, as opposed to writing a check to get you off my back to say, “Go. I put my name someplace.” They go, “Oh wow, $100. Thank you so much.” Then they come back the next year and do the same thing. There is just a real difference between the people who are in the trenches and the people who aren’t.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I think it’s important to give at any level. You say that you won’t get recognized for $25 or $50. But if we get a lot of people who support us with their time, talent, and money—you give your time, talent, and money. There is a triage there that are all magnified by each other. If you have the synergy, if you have one person who gives $25, great. If you have 1,000 people who give $25, then you are paying salary and rent and some operating costs. Then you can rev up the engines and focus on your mission.</p> <p>I do find a lot of charities are compromised in many ways, but as you know, the story of SynerVision is we want to empower leaders to step up to the level that they can take the organization. I noticed some of your students are here from the class, and I want to talk about them as well. There is a synergy in those three. We spend time teaching leaders how to raise the bar on their performance so we know how to engage people who are philanthropic-minded. There is a whole lot of stuff there. Jeff, “Bob has given many of us the gift of learning to give, and it is life-changing.” What a quote that is.</p> <p>Talk about your students. I got to sit in on three classes last week. You’re doing this Zoom group session education, which is quite remarkable. Your gracious spirit with them, and you see what’s inside them, and you see potential that maybe some of them don’t see in themselves. You said to me you challenged them to think about writing a eulogy, but you also mentioned doing some research on a nonprofit organization. There was a need for you to have to explain what that meant. What is a nonprofit organization? Talk a little bit about the class.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I taught at a university here. I was teaching business and professional speaking. I decided I wanted to bring in my love and passion to the course. How am I going to bring my love and passion into the course when philanthropy is not in the syllabus? I included philanthropy in the syllabus. When you talk about business, you are going to talk about nonprofit businesses. They had never heard of a nonprofit business, even though they had. They knew what the Salvation Army and the Red Cross was. They knew what the Boys and Girls Club and Boy Scouts are. But they didn’t know they were nonprofit organizations. They didn’t know there were two million of them in the United States. They didn’t know that half of the things that are positive about our country is philanthropy. I said, “Okay, let’s have you all look at a nonprofit you are connected with.” They had no idea they were even connected with one.</p> <p>Landon is a new student this semester in my class right now. You asked him a question and asked him to talk when you were in my class. He did. He has a passion. You can feel it when he talks, about the things he does or can do and wants to do to serve people in our community. What I’m doing is there is maybe a small fire underneath them already, and I’m turning up the heat. They get passionate about it, and I empower them to do something about it once they learn about the fact that they can do it. They can do something on their own. Landon is one of those. He has several physical problems, and one of them is with his eyes. He picked a nonprofit organization that had to do with sight. He loves being involved with something he can connect with and understand. We all do. We all can. I am attention-deficit. There is a nonprofit organization and a school that has to do with children teaching children about dyslexia and Attention Deficit Disorders. There is something I can do. There is something everybody can do because we all have something that we are connected with, and we just didn’t know it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I was going to come in and say hello, and I stayed the whole class for two of them. We are recording this in the middle of being sequestered home. It’s a time of refreshing, renewal, revising, and thinking about how when we go back to work, how we are going to define the new normal. We are leaders. We will reset the bar. I don’t think we’re going to go back to what we did before. Most of the people in the book didn’t do things in ordinary ways; that’s why they are in the book. These stories will inspire others not just to do the same old thing that they always had observed, but to think about what they bring to the table that’s really special. What is the new opportunity? Bob, let’s dig into some more of these stories. The book is divided into sections. Talk a little bit about why that is and why that’s important.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I had some great people working with me. Tom Dolphins from Kansas City designed the book. The book is so attractive that people want to find out what it is. It’s not just the words, but it’s the design. And Ann Vigola from Lawrence, Kansas started out as my editor. She happened to be a student of mine prior to that. Ann spent a lot of time figuring out how to organize this book because as being an attention-deficit person, I have all this information up here. I didn’t know how to organize it. It was organized starting out with topics. We did One Day at a Time because I am a recovering alcoholic, and I wanted to talk a little bit about that topic. One Day at a Time also had to do with the AIDS epidemic. I had a brother who died of AIDS, and I wanted to focus on that. Every person in here has had something to do in my life. People would say, “You didn’t do so-and-so. They are such a great person.” I said, “I know, but I didn’t work with them.” All of these people, I worked with. All the stories in here, many of them, I had something to do with.</p> <p>Chip got me involved in the Phoenix Project, or maybe I got him involved, which was helping warriors coming home from war, connecting them with their spouses on retreats with horses and massages. Chip actually put together a video about this whole thing. I was involved with that. I went to the sweat lodges with these warriors and watched them connect and relate to each other. They are all stories I have been involved with in one way or another, and that’s one story I like a lot.</p> <p>Jordie worked with me with the poorest of the poor kids in Mexico in Guanajuato, Mexico, Leon. We would go to the poorest school, and I would tell the teachers, “I want to take your kids for just an hour once a week and bring in 20 of my students. We will teach them philanthropy.” We watched children change because of a handshake. Jordie was able to volunteer his time, even though he was a student of mine, to put this fabulous piece together that is on YouTube. These are all stories we were able to capture. I wish I’d had these two men together with me for all of the stories because somebody’s contacted me and said, “We need to make a movie here with these short stories.” Some of them still have long-lasting things. One of the people in Mexico said, “Just teaching a child to do a handshake and watch her change as a person week after week after week has changed me as a person,” she said. It does. When you do philanthropy, it changes you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a great sound bite. Serving churches in music ministry for 40 years, I took many mission trips. We went to give them, but we came back having received a lot more than we tried to give away. There is a reciprocity to giving. You’re a giver, but you’re blessed by your giving. You’re enriched by your giving. You give stuff away, but it really impacts you. When I am with you, you’re just full of energy. You’re this most passionate energized person purposeful person. What more about the book? Was there a story here delving into their story for the book, that really moved you more than any other story? <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> Yeah. We took a vote in our little group who put this book together, Ann, Tom, and I. There is one called “Bridging the Gap.” It is written by Morgan Herm. He is a schoolteacher. He talks about a bridge that is in Pennsylvania, where he lives. He would go and meditate there. On this bridge, he noticed that somebody had put in a letter between the planks. He opened the letter, and it was a letter that a person had written about them being able to become at peace with themselves because of meditating on this bridge. He put the letter back. Then there was a collection of letters that people would put in about how this bridge had brought them peace. It helped them through their divorce, or it helped them through their domestic violence. Morgan finally built a mailbox so people could put their letters in the mailbox. They could read each other’s letters. That’s philanthropy. That bridge serves as a philanthropic metaphor or example of peace and love. That’s one of my favorites, and it’s written so well because Morgan is an English teacher and writer.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Each contributor wrote their own story.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> They wrote their own stories. There was a couple of them that I wrote. There was a woman named Ruth Altschuter in Dallas who died last year. I wanted her in the book. So I went to her husband and said, “Would you write this for me?” He said, “No, I can’t write anymore. I don’t write.” I said, “Let me write Ruth’s story, and you approve it.” He said okay. But most people wrote their own stories.</p> <p>One lady wrote a story that I told her should be 1,000 words. It was 5,000 words. I read it and realized I couldn’t cut anything out. It’s the history of Swiss Avenue, which is one of the oldest historic districts in the United States. She called it, “Philanthropy Built Her Neighborhood.” It’s about how the mansions and big houses on Swiss Avenue became run-down in the ‘30s, ‘40s, and ‘50s. You could buy a piece of property here for $10 or 25,000, which are now going for $2 million, back in the old days. She wanted to tell the story about how it became a fabulous neighborhood that is looked upon as one of the premier places in the United States. It ended up being 10 pages, and I left the 5,000 words. It is the longest story. It wasn’t meant to be that way, but it’s really well done, so I didn’t cut it out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You said here. Is it in Dallas?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> Yes. I live in that district. I live in the Swiss Avenue historic district.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow, that’s fascinating. Landon has a question. Landon, you’re live, so if you have your mic on, do you want to talk to us?</p> <p><strong>Landon Shepherd:</strong> My question is, let’s say I have an idea for a nonprofit I would like to start. But I don’t really know exactly how or where to start it, or who to talk to about getting started with what I want to do. What would be your advice to some of the students who may have these ideas, but don’t know how to work out these ideas?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That question is for your professor?</p> <p><strong>Landon:</strong> Either one of you guys.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’ll tag-team on it. Go ahead, Bob.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> He’s a student of mine, and I will definitely have a talk about that. But we have in Dallas and in Fort Worth and every major city in the United States a center for nonprofit management. The centers for nonprofit management in each of the major cities are where people can go learn about giving and learn how to start an organization, a 501(c)3, the who, what, when, where, why. They have seminars all the time. You can go to the Community Foundation of Texas. You can go to the Dallas Foundation. These are other avenues of where people are experts in this. Yes, there is a way to do that. Landon, I will tell you who to contact here in Dallas.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There are centers like that in every city. There is also a universal presence called SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We have a blue button at the top of our page labeled, “Join.” We have this community with all kinds of resources. Sometimes, we find how to do strategy or how to do leadership or how to do fundraising or how to do a brand or marketing. We put it in one contiguous process so you don’t have to look around. You can look at our site and see if that suits you. Combine working in person with one of these centers Bob is talking about. That would give you a leg up.</p> <p>Bob, I know half of the nonprofits started each year will close ultimately. My take on it is they haven’t done a good job of looking at the market to make sure it’s not being duplicated, and they haven’t really activated their board and set themselves up for success. What is your idea of why some of those close?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> You’re right. They usually are started by people who don’t have any information. They have a passion, which you have to have for the topic. People who have cancer, they want to start a nonprofit organization that has to do with cancer and raise money in the name of somebody. The Susan G. Komen Foundation was started by Nancy Brinker here in Dallas because her sister Susan G. Komen had breast cancer. She told her before she died, “I am going to find you a cure for this.” What Nancy did was she surrounded herself with experts who knew how to put together a nonprofit. Now, it is the best one in the world.</p> <p>I can tell you five or six right off the top of my head that didn’t last for more than a year because they didn’t have a board of directors, they didn’t know how to do their paperwork, they started raising money without knowing how to be a fundraiser. Let me tell Landon and everybody this. There is an association called the Association of Fundraising Professionals (AFP) in the United States. 35,000 professional fundraising people. I was a member of this group for most of my years as the president here in Dallas, and went to all the major conferences. There are conferences every year with AFP. There is a luncheon in most major cities every month that bring together all the people who raise money for the nonprofits in any city. There is a program with a speaker. It is a time to network, the people who have been there and done it before. That’s how you do it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Building a network around you. There is a peer-to-peer network, which is great, but you want to have a network of people who are even better than you. In my case, it’s not hard to do. But hang around people who have been there, done that, and are experts.</p> <p>We have Jeffrey Fulgham watching who has a question. I want to allow you to talk. Jeffrey has been a member of that and is a certified fundraiser. Why is it important for you? You went through the certification process and studied development for so many years. Do you want to comment on the organization and why it’s so important for people to understand now?</p> <p><strong>Jeffrey Fulgham:</strong> I have always looked at it as a cliché of the good housekeeping seal of approval. I think this gets more important every day. This needs to be a profession, and it needs to be professional, not just in fundraisers but in nonprofits. There has to be some standard. We hope it’s a standard of excellence, but there has to be some standard by which people can look and say, “Okay, this is an organization, or an individual, who is committed to certain principles, certain basic values, that transcend whatever it is that that organization is involved in.” Obviously, there are certain organizations whose values are going to be different than another one. But those values are related to the mission, not the operating strategy or the integrity of the entity or the integrity of the individuals working within it. What it allows us to do is create that standard. When someone looks at an organization, they have Guidestar to go to and the other metric organizations. But they also have a way to look and say, “Hey, this is what these organizations support. These are the values they support. This organization belongs to them and subscribes to these values. They subscribe to certain values. They set the standard.” Of course, the CFRE sets the standard as well. I think it’s important for people who are giving, but also for people who want to get involved as volunteers, who want to go work somewhere. Do you want to work for an organization who subscribes to certain values and has that level of integrity? That’s the main reason why I think it’s all important.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great. Before I let you go back into your listening mode, do you have a question for our guest today about philanthropy or about his book?</p> <p><strong>Jeffrey:</strong> You know, that’s the first time I’ve heard of this book. I’m definitely going to have to get a copy of it. I think it’s really interesting that you mentioned that philanthropy is not necessarily about money. I always tell people that fundraising is not about money; it usually ends in money, but it’s about relationships and about creating relationships that are long-lasting. Those relationships should transcend the money in that just because in a bad year, and we’re having one by the way, where people are not going to make gifts to organizations they care about because they have to take care of their families and their friends. They will give more money to their church. They will make hard decisions about who they are giving to. If that person doesn’t make a gift to my organization but they have been supporting me for 20 years, do I abandon them and ignore them because they are not giving money through our fundraising? No. Because I have a relationship with them that transcends their financial giving, or possibly their volunteerism. It becomes a different thing. Philanthropy is definitely a mindset beyond money, and I love that you are bringing that to the surface so people can understand what it’s about.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m glad you asked me where to get the book. There is a website called PhilanthropyMisunderstood.org. You can find out how to get the book there.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> Thank you, Jeffrey. I want to know more about you as well. I am a member of AFP and of CFRE as well. There are a couple of people in the book who are CFRE, Scott Staub and Alfonse Brown. They have great stories in there not about fundraising. As you say, it was about relationship-building and the volunteerism they participated in as well.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Not everybody wrote a story in there. There is a story about a horse. Who wrote that?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I wrote that one. It’s my best story. I wanted Philanthropy to be on my front cover, and Philanthropy happens to be my horse. This woman by the name of Tracy Carruth, who is a big philanthropist in Dallas, breeds horses. I happen to have an Arabian horse. She breeds Arabian horses. Napatoff, who is her most beautiful world champion horse, was retiring. Before he died, or left the breeding ring, she wanted to make sure that I got an offspring from Napatoff. She gave me the semen from Napatoff to go into Sherry Rochesta, who was my Arabian. Through that, we got a beautiful horse that I named Philanthropy. I wanted to start that as my first story. My editor didn’t like it, so we put it into the back. I am there with Tracy Carruth and our horses. That’s the story.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The standards for everything, the quality of the writing and the photographs, the design of the book, all of these sections in the book. You start out with Circle of Influence. Jeffrey headed us that way. It’s not about money; it’s about relationship. When you and I had lunch recently, we talked about relationship. You now have a relationship with all these people, and they wanted to be in your book. Why is relationship important to our work? Relationship in our teaching at SynerVision, it’s the underpinning of leadership and ministry, and it’s the support for communications. Funding and philanthropy happens as a result of relationship. Say a little more about relationship and how it’s important.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> Debbie Mrazek, who is one of the writers, wrote a part in the book called “Your Circle of Influence.” Who are all those people who will take care of you, who will take you to the airport and lend you sugar and tell you where to get the plumber? I had my students write down 100 people they know, wheedle it down to 25, and then 15 who will be in their circle of influence. I teach networking. It’s not what you know; it’s who you know. That’s the first thing and last thing I say in my classes. My students, I say, “How many people do you know?” They didn’t know 100 people. One of them knew seven. My family members. No, I don’t want to meet anybody. No, I don’t need people.</p> <p>I said to the class, “I’m going to take students to Nepal. It will cost $1,500. How many of you can raise the money to make it happen?” I went to this girl who said she knew seven people, and she didn’t want to know any more people. She said, “I don’t know anybody. I don’t want to know anybody. I guess I’m not going to Nepal.” I said, “I guess you’re not.” We took people to Nepal because my students most of the time realize that they have a great number of people around them who care about them, but there is a methodology of how to influence people and how to cultivate people and how to get them to be your friends, and more than friends, how to be a good friend, how to help people, and actually go around hunting for things to do for people. That’s what I want my students to become. I don’t think that we get anywhere in life without others. That’s one of the key principles that I teach in my communication classes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Your class that I sat in on is really about communications. You’re really promoting good thinking skills. Communication to me is based on relationship. We can send a whole bunch of emails that nobody reads. It’s not about data.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> No. I send emails, and I pick up the phone. We used to send faxes. We used to go knock on their door. We used to drive by. I think that this time right now, we’re trying to figure out how to continue life in solitude since we are told to stay home, and stay home alone. I think we’re finding this television and this computer even more important than ever since this is how we’re able to stay in touch, through this cell phone we love so much and this computer. However, I can go next door and knock on the door and take them a cake and say, “I was thinking of you and realize you may not have any desserts at your house today.” Sometimes, I’ll have my lawnmower man come out and next door, they don’t mow their lawn very much. “Go mow their lawn. I’ll pay you.” The people come home and say, “I can’t believe you had somebody mow my lawn.” It was a philanthropic idea I had, was to love mankind and do something for the person next door.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Bob is an inspiration. My ideas are popping. You have 100 creative ideas every six seconds. You’re prolific. In these stories, 100+ stories from people who helped change the world. We are all doing our part. It’s not one person. But one person can start a movement. My friend in Lynchburg, he was the person who founded Stop Hunger Now, which is now Rise Against Hunger. Before we had a setback with coronavirus, they were on target to package 750 million meals. Their vision is to end hunger in our lifetime. It’s not just about packaging the meals; it’s about a lot more than that. One person thought of that and founded it, and it’s now a major movement that will exist long past his lifetime, which is what he wanted. It’s a legacy. What are the legacy possibilities for any of us who say, “I want to do something for humankind and have it keep going?” Are there possibilities for all of us?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I always say, “What are you doing for the person who just passed away in your life? What will you do for your mother? What will you do for your father?” I got involved with building schools in Nepal with Don Wilkes.</p> <p>Let me tell you about Don Lueke since he is here. Don Lueke is from Kansas City; he and I met probably 30 years ago because he taught children at his school about giving. It’s the Junior Leadership. It’s similar to my PAVE program (Philanthropy and Volunteers Education). For the last 15-20 years, he and a man by the name of Steve O’Neill, who are businesspeople in Kansas City, take time out of their week every week to teach children at the Catholic school where their children go about giving back. This has become so sophisticated that this last year, I was a part of a seminar they had at the University of Missouri in Kansas City, where all of his students, maybe 30 or 40 of them, came and gave presentations on nonprofit organizations they had helped in the community. He does similar things to me: empower young people to get involved in the community. There is a double page about him and this group he is doing it with.</p> <p>Don Wilkes in Nepal for example. What can you do to honor somebody? He said, “If you can make a contribution of a couple thousand dollars, we will put someone’s name on a classroom in a school we are building in Nepal.” I called my brother and sister and said, “For $2,000, we can put our mother’s name on a classroom in Nepal.” My brother says, “I want to see a video of what it looks like.” I sent him the video, and he called me back immediately and said, “Let’s do it.” My sister said, “Sight unseen, let’s do it. We want to honor our mother.” For $2,000, our mother’s name is on a school’s room in Nepal. I know because I went to Nepal to see it. I had to go see my mother’s name. When I got out of the car, and the children were clapping for me because I was amongst them, because I gave a simple $2,000 and put my mother’s name on the deal, gave me such joy that we decided to do it again. I put my cousin’s name and my aunt’s name in another classroom on another school they are building in Nepal. That is a way you can provide not necessarily for yourself, but for somebody else that meant a lot in this society. Everybody we run around with meant a lot in this society. They did something in their lives that changed the world.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. That’s an inspiration. Are you willing to entertain questions if I open everybody’s mic?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Eric Groover:</strong> Bob, this is Eric Groover from the University of North Texas. How are you doing, Bob?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> Hi, Eric. It’s good to see you again.</p> <p><strong>Eric:</strong> Hugh, I just want to say thank you for hosting Bob. Bob and I are new acquaintances through some of our students at the Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science here at the University of North Texas in Denton. Just north of the DFW metroplex. Bob was actually scheduled to come speak to some students on our campus last week, and unfortunately we had to cancel that. Bob was gracious enough to bring up some of the books that we purchased for our students and faculty and staff. We spent a few minutes violating the university’s shelter-in-place order, visiting in my office for 20-30 minutes. I just wanted to say, Bob, that it’s been lovely watching you today and hearing your stories again. Just a huge thank-you to Hugh for hosting this event. He does you credit, and I’m glad for that. Thank you very much.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you, Eric. Blessings.</p> <p><strong>Nancy Hopkins:</strong> This is Nancy Carol Hopkins. Yes, I am Bob’s sister. I am watching from Tucson, Arizona. Obviously, Bob has been an influence in a lot of people’s lives, including mine and our younger brother. I wanted to make a comment on the volunteerism point. First of all, Bob gets asked frequently how come he stays so young and is so active at his age and has so much energy. If you look up and do some research on volunteerism, there is a lot of research that shows that volunteerism actually helps you medically, emotionally, physically, keeps you young literally. It does. There is medical research to prove that. If anybody wants to know how Bob stays so young and energetic, it has nothing to do with vitamins and pills he is taking. It has everything to do with the work that he does.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Very helpful, Nancy. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing that.</p> <p><strong>Nancy:</strong> You’re welcome.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You don’t have to take tonic if you hang around Bob Hopkins.</p> <p><strong>Nancy:</strong> That’s right. You don’t.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s so rich. By the way, our governor slapped a stay-at-home order on us until June 10. The exception is volunteerism. If you volunteer for a charity, you can get out and do it. That was a good thing, I thought.</p> <p><strong>Penny Rambacker:</strong> Hi, this is Penny Rambacker. How are you doing, Bob?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> They said Penny. I was hoping it was you.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> I’d like to make another comment about the idea of having purpose. I think Bob has a purpose, as many of us philanthropists have. I have been reading a book recently that said two of the things you can do to be the happiest in life are 1) to have a purpose and to feel needed, and that keeps you young and alive, and 2) is to be grateful. Those of us that practice gratitude and appreciate what we have are oftentimes people who are giving because they have seen other people with greater needs than their own. They become grateful for all of the things they have in their life. I had a huge gratitude lesson back when I first got into this. That was when I visited the garbage dump in Guatemala City. I saw children living there. It really touched my heart, and I had to do something about it. I found my purpose, and I felt grateful for the life I have. Two good things to think about when you are doing philanthropy. Yep, that’s me and my kids.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What page is that on, Bob?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> Pages 48-49.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. Great stories. Penny, where are you?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> I am in Naples, Florida. We work in Guatemala. My charity has built 57 schools in the mountains of Guatemala. We also sell handicrafts. We just sent an e-newsletter telling people to visit our store online. It’s virus-free. You can go shopping for a greater good. If you want to go shopping, we have great things at Store.MiraclesInAction.org.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Good for you. I have been to Guatemala, and people are very poor. They have lots of wonderful natural resources. They do wonderful clothes with all these designs that are brilliant. What are you showing, Bob?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> This is Don Lueke’s page. He is on pages 82-83.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Don, do you want to comment?</p> <p><strong>Don Lueke:</strong> This is a great opportunity to showcase your work, Bob, and the work of everybody in that book. I appreciate the efforts on your part. Just want to add. We talk about having a purpose. I think that is what makes us get up every day, or at least get up quicker. I don’t know if I have a lot more to add. I’m humbled by everybody’s story in the book, so I think I am just one of many.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you for sharing. I am humbled being part of Bob’s network.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from Wordsprint*</p> <p>Bob, what is a parting thought you’d like to leave people with today?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I am going to do another book called <em>Philanthropy Understood.</em> It’s going to be new people. Some of the old people we want to expand upon, too. I’d like to do something with TAMS. I think TAMS is a great program that Eric Groover has been a part of before. There are so many people that I have been thinking about. That’s what I’m doing right now, and that’s why so many people are here who are in the book because I sent them a memo telling them all that we are needing to stay together on a monthly basis.</p> <p>We did have a man pass away yesterday in the book, Charles Lowe. He has spent 45 years working with the disease called neurofibromatosis, and I worked for them for eight years. I was able to tell all of the people in the book about his passing. So many people responded who didn’t even know Charles, but did know his article in the book. I think the more we create this circle of influence around ourselves, the richer our lives are going to be. Also, the kinds of people we depend upon, I always try to find people who are smarter than you who have more things going on for them because they will lift me up instead of running around with people who will pull me down.</p> <p>My challenge to everyone is to continue these kinds of groups, and continue doing good together. That is the real fun about philanthropy and being volunteers. It’s a togetherness thing. I did go with Penny to Guatemala, and I loved the experience. She is in the book. I went with her 20 years ago. I included her in the book because that experience changed my life 20 years ago. It’s one of those many things that make up a person. It’s so much fun going back in my history, in my family. My sister is the greatest philanthropist of our family. She is doing more than me even. I think that’s the joy. I don’t even say it’s happy anymore; it’s a joy to walk out on my front porch and say, “God, take me. What is my next step? What do I have to do next?” You know what. Somebody picks me up and takes me. I think that’s the lesson I have learned more than anything: you have to be willing and tell people.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Bob Hopkins, you are a gift to humankind. Thank you so much for being our guest today.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> Thank you.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Shaping the Future of America with Mike Ghouse</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/shaping-the-future-of-america-with-mike-ghouse</link>
      <description>Shaping the Future of America with Mike Ghouse
 Dr. Mike Ghouse is the founder and president of the Center for Pluralism. He is a speaker, thinker, author, community consultant, pluralist, activist, newsmaker, and an interfaith wedding officiant. Mike is deeply committed to Free speech, Human Rights, and Pluralism in Religion, Politics, Societies, and the workplace. He has dedicated his life to building cohesive societies and offers pluralistic solutions to the media and the policymakers. More about him at www.TheGhousediary.com.
 Ten years from now, you will not find a place of work, worship, playground, school, restaurant, theater and other areas of public gatherings where you will not see people of different faiths, races, and ethnicities interacting, working, studying, intermingling, playing and even marrying each other.
 These interactions are bound to create conflicts and it is our duty to prevent such conflicts, so each American can live securely with his or her faith, culture, gender, race, sexual orientation, or ethnicity.
 We have already witnessed how the natives (those who have been here for several generations) feel about the new Americans. It is not a phobia, but a natural feeling of fear losing one’s way of life, and one’s world.
 A vast majority of us have heard things about others from our friends, news, social media, or our knowledge of others and we instantly form opinions about others. As responsible individuals, we must strive to strip stereotyping and build pathways to ensure the smooth functioning of our society, whether it is the workplace or our neighborhoods. We need to reassure each other, particularly the disconnected ones, that together as Americans, we are committed to safeguarding the American way of life. No American needs to worry about losing his or her way of life. Together as Americans, we uphold, protect, defend, and celebrate the values enshrined in our Constitution; a guarantor of the way of life each one of us wants to lead. Let me state this clearly, “My peace and tranquility hinges on the peace of people around me,” and “My safety is tied to the security of people around me.” It behooves me to build societies where all are secure; it guarantees my security and my tension free life.
 We are committed to building a cohesive America, an America where each one of us feels secure about our ethnicity, faith, culture, race, and other uniqueness. To accomplish that vision, we have several programs, events, and workshops to be a catalyst to bring about the results,
 The Center for Pluralism will continue to bring non-stop actions in bringing Americans together from different faiths, political affiliations, societies, and cultures and be a catalyst for a safe and secure America for each one of us, as we move through this transition.
 As we learn to respect the otherness of others and accept the God-given uniqueness of each one of us, then conflicts fade and solutions emerge.
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/72ee4f3a-b329-11eb-9f0f-db6f802f01f0/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Dr. Mike Ghouse is the founder and president of the Center for Pluralism</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Shaping the Future of America with Mike Ghouse
 Dr. Mike Ghouse is the founder and president of the Center for Pluralism. He is a speaker, thinker, author, community consultant, pluralist, activist, newsmaker, and an interfaith wedding officiant. Mike is deeply committed to Free speech, Human Rights, and Pluralism in Religion, Politics, Societies, and the workplace. He has dedicated his life to building cohesive societies and offers pluralistic solutions to the media and the policymakers. More about him at www.TheGhousediary.com.
 Ten years from now, you will not find a place of work, worship, playground, school, restaurant, theater and other areas of public gatherings where you will not see people of different faiths, races, and ethnicities interacting, working, studying, intermingling, playing and even marrying each other.
 These interactions are bound to create conflicts and it is our duty to prevent such conflicts, so each American can live securely with his or her faith, culture, gender, race, sexual orientation, or ethnicity.
 We have already witnessed how the natives (those who have been here for several generations) feel about the new Americans. It is not a phobia, but a natural feeling of fear losing one’s way of life, and one’s world.
 A vast majority of us have heard things about others from our friends, news, social media, or our knowledge of others and we instantly form opinions about others. As responsible individuals, we must strive to strip stereotyping and build pathways to ensure the smooth functioning of our society, whether it is the workplace or our neighborhoods. We need to reassure each other, particularly the disconnected ones, that together as Americans, we are committed to safeguarding the American way of life. No American needs to worry about losing his or her way of life. Together as Americans, we uphold, protect, defend, and celebrate the values enshrined in our Constitution; a guarantor of the way of life each one of us wants to lead. Let me state this clearly, “My peace and tranquility hinges on the peace of people around me,” and “My safety is tied to the security of people around me.” It behooves me to build societies where all are secure; it guarantees my security and my tension free life.
 We are committed to building a cohesive America, an America where each one of us feels secure about our ethnicity, faith, culture, race, and other uniqueness. To accomplish that vision, we have several programs, events, and workshops to be a catalyst to bring about the results,
 The Center for Pluralism will continue to bring non-stop actions in bringing Americans together from different faiths, political affiliations, societies, and cultures and be a catalyst for a safe and secure America for each one of us, as we move through this transition.
 As we learn to respect the otherness of others and accept the God-given uniqueness of each one of us, then conflicts fade and solutions emerge.
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Shaping the Future of America with Mike Ghouse</strong></h1> <p><strong>Dr. Mike Ghouse</strong> is the founder and president of the Center for Pluralism. He is a speaker, thinker, author, community consultant, pluralist, activist, newsmaker, and an interfaith wedding officiant. Mike is deeply committed to Free speech, Human Rights, and Pluralism in Religion, Politics, Societies, and the workplace. He has dedicated his life to building cohesive societies and offers pluralistic solutions to the media and the policymakers. More about him at <a href="http://www.theghousediary.com/">www.TheGhousediary.com</a>.</p> <p>Ten years from now, you will not find a place of work, worship, playground, school, restaurant, theater and other areas of public gatherings where you will not see people of different faiths, races, and ethnicities interacting, working, studying, intermingling, playing and even marrying each other.</p> <p>These interactions are bound to create conflicts and it is our duty to prevent such conflicts, so each American can live securely with his or her faith, culture, gender, race, sexual orientation, or ethnicity.</p> <p>We have already witnessed how the natives (those who have been here for several generations) feel about the new Americans. It is not a phobia, but a natural feeling of fear losing one’s way of life, and one’s world.</p> <p>A vast majority of us have heard things about others from our friends, news, social media, or our knowledge of others and we instantly form opinions about others. As responsible individuals, we must strive to strip stereotyping and build pathways to ensure the smooth functioning of our society, whether it is the workplace or our neighborhoods.<br> We need to reassure each other, particularly the disconnected ones, that together as Americans, we are committed to safeguarding the American way of life. No American needs to worry about losing his or her way of life. Together as Americans, we uphold, protect, defend, and celebrate the values enshrined in our Constitution; a guarantor of the way of life each one of us wants to lead.<br> Let me state this clearly, “My peace and tranquility hinges on the peace of people around me,” and “My safety is tied to the security of people around me.” It behooves me to build societies where all are secure; it guarantees my security and my tension free life.</p> <p>We are committed to building a cohesive America, an America where each one of us feels secure about our ethnicity, faith, culture, race, and other uniqueness. To accomplish that vision, we have several programs, events, and workshops to be a catalyst to bring about the results,</p> <p>The Center for Pluralism will continue to bring non-stop actions in bringing Americans together from different faiths, political affiliations, societies, and cultures and be a catalyst for a safe and secure America for each one of us, as we move through this transition.</p> <p>As we learn to respect the otherness of others and accept the God-given uniqueness of each one of us, then conflicts fade and solutions emerge.</p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3613</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Human Philanthropy: Giving of Yourself with Dr. Fred Pescatore</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/human-philanthropy-giving-of-yourself-with-dr-fred-pescatore</link>
      <description>Human Philanthropy: Giving of Yourself with Dr. Fred Pescatore
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2020 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7308c9dc-b329-11eb-9f0f-c7cd20809ec8/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Human Philanthropy: Giving of Yourself with Dr. Fred Pescatore</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Human Philanthropy: Giving of Yourself with Dr. Fred Pescatore
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Human Philanthropy: Giving of Yourself with Dr. Fred Pescatore</strong></h1><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3472</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Leading Teams to Online Fundraising Overnight</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/leading-teams-to-online-fundraising-overnight</link>
      <description>Leading Teams to Online Fundraising Overnight Interview with Megan Anhalt
 
 Megan Anhalt is the Chief Strategy Officer and COO of Whole Whale. She has over 10 years of experience leading purpose-driven projects to help nonprofits, foundations, and companies create social impact. As a Strategy Director and Senior Strategist for Purpose, Megan drove several campaigns to address some of the world’s biggest challenges, including supporting the rights of low wage workers, fighting Parkinson’s disease, building a better food system, and improving jobs in America today. Before joining the team at Whole Whale, Megan led digital communications for the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, managing web, Facebook, and overall digital strategy for Priscilla Chan and the Zuck himself under CZI’s philanthropic banner.
 Leaders looking to build up their digital capacity, especially in fundraising need to know the right people to bring on and train. Organizations are moving all of their work online overnight and there are different skills required. Who should you be hiring? How can you train existing people? How do we measure the success of online fundraising from the beginning? How does increased online fundraising work with existing efforts?
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2020 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/73247c90-b329-11eb-9f0f-03f2805aaca1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Megan Anhalt</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leading Teams to Online Fundraising Overnight Interview with Megan Anhalt
 
 Megan Anhalt is the Chief Strategy Officer and COO of Whole Whale. She has over 10 years of experience leading purpose-driven projects to help nonprofits, foundations, and companies create social impact. As a Strategy Director and Senior Strategist for Purpose, Megan drove several campaigns to address some of the world’s biggest challenges, including supporting the rights of low wage workers, fighting Parkinson’s disease, building a better food system, and improving jobs in America today. Before joining the team at Whole Whale, Megan led digital communications for the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, managing web, Facebook, and overall digital strategy for Priscilla Chan and the Zuck himself under CZI’s philanthropic banner.
 Leaders looking to build up their digital capacity, especially in fundraising need to know the right people to bring on and train. Organizations are moving all of their work online overnight and there are different skills required. Who should you be hiring? How can you train existing people? How do we measure the success of online fundraising from the beginning? How does increased online fundraising work with existing efforts?
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Leading Teams to Online Fundraising Overnight Interview with Megan Anhalt</strong></h1> <p><strong><a href="https://wholewhale.com/"></a></strong></p> <p><strong>Megan Anhalt</strong> is the Chief Strategy Officer and COO of Whole Whale. She has over 10 years of experience leading purpose-driven projects to help nonprofits, foundations, and companies create social impact. As a Strategy Director and Senior Strategist for Purpose, Megan drove several campaigns to address some of the world’s biggest challenges, including supporting the rights of low wage workers, fighting Parkinson’s disease, building a better food system, and improving jobs in America today. Before joining the team at Whole Whale, Megan led digital communications for the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, managing web, Facebook, and overall digital strategy for Priscilla Chan and the Zuck himself under CZI’s philanthropic banner.</p> <p>Leaders looking to build up their digital capacity, especially in fundraising need to know the right people to bring on and train. Organizations are moving all of their work online overnight and there are different skills required. Who should you be hiring? How can you train existing people? How do we measure the success of online fundraising from the beginning? How does increased online fundraising work with existing efforts?</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3537</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Shanti Project: Nonprofit Volunteer Support for The Elderly in a Time of Coronavirus</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-shanti-project-nonprofit-volunteer-support-for-the-elderly-in-a-time-of-coronavirus</link>
      <description>The Shanti Project: Nonprofit Volunteer Support for The Elderly in a Time of Coronavirus

 Charles Garfield is a psychologist, professor and lecturer, and the author of twelve books including LIFE’S LAST GIFT. He has been recognized internationally as the founder of Shanti Project, a widely acclaimed AIDS and cancer service organization (www.shanti.org). For more than forty years, he has pioneered the development of healthcare and social service-oriented volunteer organizations in a wide variety of settings. Of these efforts, Garfield says: “Shanti’s work demonstrates that health professionals and volunteers (America’s largely unrecognized workforce) can learn to be tender with people and tough on problems as they serve those who need them most.”
 A clinical professor of psychology in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of California School of Medicine at San Francisco (UCSF) for nearly four decades, and a fellow of the American Psychological Association, he is currently a research scholar at the Starr King School for the Ministry at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley. 
 Dr. Garfield has lectured widely, addressing audiences that include a Clinton White House conference, the U.S. Olympic Committee and Head Coaches of Olympic sports, and the leadership of Oklahoma City following the bombing of that city’s federal building.
 Volunteers are America’s unrecognized workforce. Without their contribution, especially in this time of COVID 19, we would simply not be able to care adequately for those who are elderly and/or infirmed. By training volunteers in peer counseling skills, they can make vital contributions to our most vulnerable neighbors during this most challenging time.
 His new book, OUR WISDOM YEARS: Growing Older with Joy, Fulfillment, and No Regrets is on sale.
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/733f3a1c-b329-11eb-9f0f-d7023f431e8a/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Founder Dr. Charles Garfield</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Shanti Project: Nonprofit Volunteer Support for The Elderly in a Time of Coronavirus

 Charles Garfield is a psychologist, professor and lecturer, and the author of twelve books including LIFE’S LAST GIFT. He has been recognized internationally as the founder of Shanti Project, a widely acclaimed AIDS and cancer service organization (www.shanti.org). For more than forty years, he has pioneered the development of healthcare and social service-oriented volunteer organizations in a wide variety of settings. Of these efforts, Garfield says: “Shanti’s work demonstrates that health professionals and volunteers (America’s largely unrecognized workforce) can learn to be tender with people and tough on problems as they serve those who need them most.”
 A clinical professor of psychology in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of California School of Medicine at San Francisco (UCSF) for nearly four decades, and a fellow of the American Psychological Association, he is currently a research scholar at the Starr King School for the Ministry at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley. 
 Dr. Garfield has lectured widely, addressing audiences that include a Clinton White House conference, the U.S. Olympic Committee and Head Coaches of Olympic sports, and the leadership of Oklahoma City following the bombing of that city’s federal building.
 Volunteers are America’s unrecognized workforce. Without their contribution, especially in this time of COVID 19, we would simply not be able to care adequately for those who are elderly and/or infirmed. By training volunteers in peer counseling skills, they can make vital contributions to our most vulnerable neighbors during this most challenging time.
 His new book, OUR WISDOM YEARS: Growing Older with Joy, Fulfillment, and No Regrets is on sale.
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1> <strong>The Shanti Project: Nonprofit Volunteer Support for The Elderly in a Time of Coronavirus</strong>
</h1> <p><strong>Charles Garfield</strong> is a psychologist, professor and lecturer, and the author of twelve books including LIFE’S LAST GIFT. He has been recognized internationally as the founder of Shanti Project, a widely acclaimed AIDS and cancer service organization (www.shanti.org). For more than forty years, he has pioneered the development of healthcare and social service-oriented volunteer organizations in a wide variety of settings. Of these efforts, Garfield says: “Shanti’s work demonstrates that health professionals and volunteers (America’s largely unrecognized workforce) can learn to be tender with people and tough on problems as they serve those who need them most.”</p> <p>A clinical professor of psychology in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of California School of Medicine at San Francisco (UCSF) for nearly four decades, and a fellow of the American Psychological Association, he is currently a research scholar at the Starr King School for the Ministry at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley. </p> <p>Dr. Garfield has lectured widely, addressing audiences that include a Clinton White House conference, the U.S. Olympic Committee and Head Coaches of Olympic sports, and the leadership of Oklahoma City following the bombing of that city’s federal building.</p> <p>Volunteers are America’s unrecognized workforce. Without their contribution, especially in this time of COVID 19, we would simply not be able to care adequately for those who are elderly and/or infirmed. By training volunteers in peer counseling skills, they can make vital contributions to our most vulnerable neighbors during this most challenging time.</p> <p>His new book, OUR WISDOM YEARS: Growing Older with Joy, Fulfillment, and No Regrets is on sale.</p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2536</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[9bb758ad-f07b-447c-a4b0-186dc4094112]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4888783283.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>SynerVision Community Update</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/synervision-community-update</link>
      <description>The SynerVision Community Update
 Hugh Ballou, Amit Banergee, and Russell Dennis share what’s happening in the SynerVision online “Community for Community Builders.” This “One-fo-a-Kind” community is exclusively for nonprofit leaders and clergy who are looking for a peer-to-peer space that’s safe, collegial, and accepting.
 For a limited time, anyone can try out this private community for just $1 for 30-days, then continue with a monthly membership for only $40/month with many, many resources and live support for addressing current issues. Click HERE for details.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/735d9d40-b329-11eb-9f0f-477de5b69697/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The SynerVision Community Update Hugh Ballou, Amit Banergee, and Russell Dennis share what’s happening in the SynerVision online “Community for Community Builders.” This “One-fo-a-Kind” community is exclusively for nonprofit leaders and...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The SynerVision Community Update
 Hugh Ballou, Amit Banergee, and Russell Dennis share what’s happening in the SynerVision online “Community for Community Builders.” This “One-fo-a-Kind” community is exclusively for nonprofit leaders and clergy who are looking for a peer-to-peer space that’s safe, collegial, and accepting.
 For a limited time, anyone can try out this private community for just $1 for 30-days, then continue with a monthly membership for only $40/month with many, many resources and live support for addressing current issues. Click HERE for details.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>The SynerVision Community Update</p> <p>Hugh Ballou, Amit Banergee, and Russell Dennis share what’s happening in the SynerVision online “<strong>Community for Community Builders</strong>.” This “One-fo-a-Kind” community is exclusively for nonprofit leaders and clergy who are looking for a peer-to-peer space that’s safe, collegial, and accepting.</p> <p>For a limited time, anyone can try out this private community for just $1 for 30-days, then continue with a monthly membership for only $40/month with many, many resources and live support for addressing current issues. Click <strong><a href="https://synervisionleadership.org/membership/">HERE</a></strong> for details.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3128</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[beae7dbb-5e06-46a9-a980-6ccf91389249]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5632151383.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Paper for Water: Gifts that Give</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/paper-for-water-gifts-that-give</link>
      <description>Paper for Water: Gifts that Give
 Paper for Water's primary mission is to bring water and the Word to the Thirsty one piece of paper at a time. The mission was born out of the desire that two little girls had to help other girls worldwide who do not get to go to school because they spend their days hauling water. Isabelle and Katherine also learned that a child dies every 15 seconds from unclean water and they wanted to make a change. KEIKI INTERNATIONAL FOUNDATION is a 501c3 Foundation which is the parent organization of Paper for Water. Paper for Water's primary function is to raise money to fund water wells world-wide. Paper for Water is committed to teaching children in developed countries about the world water crisis. Paper for Water is working to help children in developing countries gain access to clean water and sanitation. Paper for Water seeks to empower the youth in developed countries with skills in leadership, philanthropy, and entrepreneurship. It also wants to improve their understanding, compassion, empathy, and to broaden their knowledge of the world around them.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/737a0818-b329-11eb-9f0f-7f8ef620831b/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Paper for Water: Gifts that Give Paper for Water's primary mission is to bring water and the Word to the Thirsty one piece of paper at a time. The mission was born out of the desire that two little girls had to help other girls worldwide who do not...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Paper for Water: Gifts that Give
 Paper for Water's primary mission is to bring water and the Word to the Thirsty one piece of paper at a time. The mission was born out of the desire that two little girls had to help other girls worldwide who do not get to go to school because they spend their days hauling water. Isabelle and Katherine also learned that a child dies every 15 seconds from unclean water and they wanted to make a change. KEIKI INTERNATIONAL FOUNDATION is a 501c3 Foundation which is the parent organization of Paper for Water. Paper for Water's primary function is to raise money to fund water wells world-wide. Paper for Water is committed to teaching children in developed countries about the world water crisis. Paper for Water is working to help children in developing countries gain access to clean water and sanitation. Paper for Water seeks to empower the youth in developed countries with skills in leadership, philanthropy, and entrepreneurship. It also wants to improve their understanding, compassion, empathy, and to broaden their knowledge of the world around them.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Paper for Water: Gifts that Give</strong></p> <p>Paper for Water's primary mission is to bring water and the Word to the Thirsty one piece of paper at a time. The mission<br> was born out of the desire that two little girls had to help other girls worldwide who do not get to go to school because they spend their days hauling water. Isabelle and Katherine also learned that a child dies every 15 seconds from unclean water and they wanted to make a change. KEIKI INTERNATIONAL FOUNDATION is a 501c3 Foundation which is the parent organization of Paper for Water. Paper for Water's primary function is to raise money to fund water wells world-wide. Paper for Water is committed to teaching children in developed countries about the world water crisis. Paper for Water is working to help children in developing countries gain access to clean water and sanitation. Paper for Water seeks to empower the youth in developed countries with skills in leadership, philanthropy, and entrepreneurship. It also wants to improve their understanding, compassion, empathy, and to broaden their knowledge of the world around them.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3723</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[4488167a-2b10-4234-9968-3688a1b23e07]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9124196689.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Chicks and Local Charities Connecting with Jewels Muller</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/chicks-and-local-charities-connecting-with-jewels-muller</link>
      <description>Chicks and Local Charities Connecting with Jewels Muller
 Jewels Muller is a wife and a mother of twin boys. She is the Founder and CEO of Chicks Connect Mastermind Support Network. She has an amazing passion for life and supporting entrepreneurs. She has her Master’s Degree in Education, Policies, Foundation and Administration, and her undergraduate degree from the University of Oregon. She spent many years as a teacher and Administrator in the Public-School System. Jewels has spent over a decade as an Entrepreneur.
 She launched Peace of Mind Organizing Firm in 2004 where she worked with clients organizing and creating systems for productivity in their homes and offices. Her simple organizational and productivity processes and systems have assisted numerous clients to become even more efficient so that they can spend time doing the things they love. In 2006 she added coaching services through a Life Blueprint Coaching program. Speaking, writing, and supporting entrepreneurs are her passions which is evident in her coaching clientele and her ever-growing Mastermind Support Network, Chicks Connect. You can join the movement at www.ChicksConnect.com and connect with her on social media by searching Jewels Muller.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7391d3bc-b329-11eb-9f0f-cf315a6bde57/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Chicks and Local Charities Connecting with Jewels Muller Jewels Muller is a wife and a mother of twin boys. She is the Founder and CEO of Chicks Connect Mastermind Support Network. She has an amazing passion for life and supporting entrepreneurs. She...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Chicks and Local Charities Connecting with Jewels Muller
 Jewels Muller is a wife and a mother of twin boys. She is the Founder and CEO of Chicks Connect Mastermind Support Network. She has an amazing passion for life and supporting entrepreneurs. She has her Master’s Degree in Education, Policies, Foundation and Administration, and her undergraduate degree from the University of Oregon. She spent many years as a teacher and Administrator in the Public-School System. Jewels has spent over a decade as an Entrepreneur.
 She launched Peace of Mind Organizing Firm in 2004 where she worked with clients organizing and creating systems for productivity in their homes and offices. Her simple organizational and productivity processes and systems have assisted numerous clients to become even more efficient so that they can spend time doing the things they love. In 2006 she added coaching services through a Life Blueprint Coaching program. Speaking, writing, and supporting entrepreneurs are her passions which is evident in her coaching clientele and her ever-growing Mastermind Support Network, Chicks Connect. You can join the movement at www.ChicksConnect.com and connect with her on social media by searching Jewels Muller.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Chicks and Local Charities Connecting with Jewels Muller</h1> <p><strong>Jewels Muller</strong> is a wife and a mother of twin boys. She is the Founder and CEO of Chicks Connect Mastermind Support Network. She has an amazing passion for life and supporting entrepreneurs. She has her Master’s Degree in Education, Policies, Foundation and Administration, and her undergraduate degree from the University of Oregon. She spent many years as a teacher and Administrator in the Public-School System. Jewels has spent over a decade as an Entrepreneur.</p> <p>She launched Peace of Mind Organizing Firm in 2004 where she worked with clients organizing and creating systems for productivity in their homes and offices. Her simple organizational and productivity processes and systems have assisted numerous clients to become even more efficient so that they can spend time doing the things they love. In 2006 she added coaching services through a Life Blueprint Coaching program. Speaking, writing, and supporting entrepreneurs are her passions which is evident in her coaching clientele and her ever-growing Mastermind Support Network, Chicks Connect. You can join the movement at <a href="http://www.chicksconnect.com/">www.ChicksConnect.com</a> and connect with her on social media by searching Jewels Muller.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2823</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[e74d78f5-a282-4f89-bb03-0126af188858]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1928726837.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Chance to Reinvent the Workplace with Alise Cortez</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-chance-to-reinvent-the-workplace-with-alise-cortez</link>
      <description>COVID-19’s Silver Lining: The Chance to Reinvent the Workplace with Alise Cortez
 Dr. Alise Cortez is affectionately referred to as “The Anti-Undertaker” as she catalyzes the often otherwise “walking dead” to discover and grow their passion, inspiration, and purpose in life and at work. She is a Chief Purpose Officer, Management Consultant, Inspirational Speaker, Author, Radio Host, and Social Scientist based in Dallas, Texas. Having developed her expertise within the Human Capital / Organizational Excellence industry over the last 20 years, today she is focused on enabling organizations to lead from purpose and create cultures of meaning that inspire impassioned performance, meaningful engagement and fulfillment, while encouraging a devoted stay within the organization. For individuals, she also facilitates an online Catch Fire global community and various retreats to enable people hungry for a more meaningful and purposeful life to discover and create it for themselves.
 The forced reboot that has come with sheltering in place and working remotely has opened a space to reconsider everything that has been assumed about work and your staff’s relationship to it. Low levels of employee engagement has been an issue requiring leadership’s focus for decades. And yet the workplace, especially inside non profit organizations that are so often cause driven, holds such promise for fulfillment in the lives of employees. The pause in workplace “normal” ushers in the opportunity to take serious stock of operational practices that have likely evolved to a level of bureaucracy which dehumanizes the workplace, preventing employees to bring their very best. The workplace interruption that has accompanied the pandemic containment is a perfect opportunity to reevaluate traditional human capital and operational practices and redesign the workplace more optimally for increased engagement, fulfillment, and productivity.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/73a8fe34-b329-11eb-9f0f-dbedd177d768/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>COVID-19’s Silver Lining</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>COVID-19’s Silver Lining: The Chance to Reinvent the Workplace with Alise Cortez
 Dr. Alise Cortez is affectionately referred to as “The Anti-Undertaker” as she catalyzes the often otherwise “walking dead” to discover and grow their passion, inspiration, and purpose in life and at work. She is a Chief Purpose Officer, Management Consultant, Inspirational Speaker, Author, Radio Host, and Social Scientist based in Dallas, Texas. Having developed her expertise within the Human Capital / Organizational Excellence industry over the last 20 years, today she is focused on enabling organizations to lead from purpose and create cultures of meaning that inspire impassioned performance, meaningful engagement and fulfillment, while encouraging a devoted stay within the organization. For individuals, she also facilitates an online Catch Fire global community and various retreats to enable people hungry for a more meaningful and purposeful life to discover and create it for themselves.
 The forced reboot that has come with sheltering in place and working remotely has opened a space to reconsider everything that has been assumed about work and your staff’s relationship to it. Low levels of employee engagement has been an issue requiring leadership’s focus for decades. And yet the workplace, especially inside non profit organizations that are so often cause driven, holds such promise for fulfillment in the lives of employees. The pause in workplace “normal” ushers in the opportunity to take serious stock of operational practices that have likely evolved to a level of bureaucracy which dehumanizes the workplace, preventing employees to bring their very best. The workplace interruption that has accompanied the pandemic containment is a perfect opportunity to reevaluate traditional human capital and operational practices and redesign the workplace more optimally for increased engagement, fulfillment, and productivity.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>COVID-19’s Silver Lining: The Chance to Reinvent the Workplace with Alise Cortez</strong></p> <p><strong>Dr. Alise Cortez</strong> is affectionately referred to as “The Anti-Undertaker” as she catalyzes the often otherwise “walking dead” to discover and grow their passion, inspiration, and purpose in life and at work. She is a Chief Purpose Officer, Management Consultant, Inspirational Speaker, Author, Radio Host, and Social Scientist based in Dallas, Texas. Having developed her expertise within the Human Capital / Organizational Excellence industry over the last 20 years, today she is focused on enabling organizations to lead from purpose and create cultures of meaning that inspire impassioned performance, meaningful engagement and fulfillment, while encouraging a devoted stay within the organization. For individuals, she also facilitates an online Catch Fire global community and various retreats to enable people hungry for a more meaningful and purposeful life to discover and create it for themselves.</p> <p>The forced reboot that has come with sheltering in place and working remotely has opened a space to reconsider everything that has been assumed about work and your staff’s relationship to it. Low levels of employee engagement has been an issue requiring leadership’s focus for decades. And yet the workplace, especially inside non profit organizations that are so often cause driven, holds such promise for fulfillment in the lives of employees. The pause in workplace “normal” ushers in the opportunity to take serious stock of operational practices that have likely evolved to a level of bureaucracy which dehumanizes the workplace, preventing employees to bring their very best. The workplace interruption that has accompanied the pandemic containment is a perfect opportunity to reevaluate traditional human capital and operational practices and redesign the workplace more optimally for increased engagement, fulfillment, and productivity.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3332</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[0a090841-e537-48fe-b6e4-56d35607c293]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1580367999.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Video Can Rescue Your Nonprofit During COVID-19</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/video-can-rescue-your-nonprofit-during-covid-19</link>
      <description>Video Can Rescue Your Nonprofit During COVID-19
 Doug Scott is the founder and CEO of Tectonic Video, a leading video agency for nonprofits. Doug has more than 20 years of nonprofit communications experience as a filmmaker, communications director, and chief marketing officer and his team works with nonprofits across the US and around the world to create award-winning videos that drive results. His work has been featured in The New York Times, NPR, CNN and AdWeek and he is a frequent guest lecturer at Stanford University on the power of storytelling for nonprofit organizations.
 Doug will share how video communication strategies are vital to the future of nonprofits and how to create highly engaging and effective video campaigns.
 For almost a decade, the team at Tectonic has helped nonprofits create better videos.
 We chose the name “Tectonic” because we believe nonprofit communications are in the midst of a tectonic shift.  Video is the future, and nonprofits need to quickly adapt to this new reality. We’ve made hundreds of videos for dozens of nonprofits around the world. We love what we do, and we’re passionate about helping nonprofits accomplish their missions and grow. Let’s do this!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/73c37570-b329-11eb-9f0f-1b6d34457733/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Doug Scott</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Video Can Rescue Your Nonprofit During COVID-19
 Doug Scott is the founder and CEO of Tectonic Video, a leading video agency for nonprofits. Doug has more than 20 years of nonprofit communications experience as a filmmaker, communications director, and chief marketing officer and his team works with nonprofits across the US and around the world to create award-winning videos that drive results. His work has been featured in The New York Times, NPR, CNN and AdWeek and he is a frequent guest lecturer at Stanford University on the power of storytelling for nonprofit organizations.
 Doug will share how video communication strategies are vital to the future of nonprofits and how to create highly engaging and effective video campaigns.
 For almost a decade, the team at Tectonic has helped nonprofits create better videos.
 We chose the name “Tectonic” because we believe nonprofit communications are in the midst of a tectonic shift.  Video is the future, and nonprofits need to quickly adapt to this new reality. We’ve made hundreds of videos for dozens of nonprofits around the world. We love what we do, and we’re passionate about helping nonprofits accomplish their missions and grow. Let’s do this!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Video Can Rescue Your Nonprofit During COVID-19</strong></p> <p><strong>Doug Scott</strong> is the founder and CEO of Tectonic Video, a leading video agency for nonprofits. Doug has more than 20 years of nonprofit communications experience as a filmmaker, communications director, and chief marketing officer and his team works with nonprofits across the US and around the world to create award-winning videos that drive results. His work has been featured in The New York Times, NPR, CNN and AdWeek and he is a frequent guest lecturer at Stanford University on the power of storytelling for nonprofit organizations.</p> <p>Doug will share how video communication strategies are vital to the future of nonprofits and how to create highly engaging and effective video campaigns.</p> <p>For almost a decade, the team at Tectonic has helped nonprofits create better videos.</p> <p>We chose the name “Tectonic” because we believe nonprofit communications are in the midst of a tectonic shift. <a href="https://www.tectonic.video/future-of-nonprofit-communications-is-video"> Video is the future</a>, and nonprofits need to quickly adapt to this new reality. We’ve made hundreds of videos for dozens of nonprofits around the world. We love what we do, and we’re passionate about helping nonprofits accomplish their missions and grow. Let’s do this!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3558</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Become the Beacon of Light with Sharon Lechter</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/become-the-beacon-of-light-with-sharon-lechter</link>
      <description>Become the Beacon of Light with Sharon Lechter
 Don’t wait for the light at the end of the tunnel….Become the Beacon of Light Today As an entrepreneur, international speaker, best-selling author, mentor, philanthropist, licensed CPA, and a Chartered Global Management Accountant, Sharon Lechter is the premier expert for financial literacy and entrepreneurial success.
 A lifelong education advocate, in 1989, Sharon joined forces with the inventor of the first electronic ‘talking book’ and helped him expand the electronic book industry to a multi-million dollar international market.
 In 1997 Sharon co-authored the international bestseller Rich Dad Poor Dad and has released 14 other books in the Rich Dad series. Over 10 years as the co-founder and CEO, she built the empire into the world’s leading personal finance brand.
 In 2008, she was asked by the Napoleon Hill Foundation to help re-energize the powerful teachings of Napoleon Hill just as the international economy was faltering. Sharon has released three bestselling books in cooperation with the Foundation, including Think and Grow Rich-Three Feet from Gold, Outwitting the Devil, and her latest project, Think and Grow Rich for Women, released in June of 2014. She is also featured in the 2017 movie Think and Grow Rich: The Legacy and has released the book Save Wisely, Spend Happily in cooperation with the American Institute of CPAs.
 Sharon Lechter | About Story Sharon is a highly sought-after mentor and has worked with major brands like Disney and Time Warner and served two U.S. Presidents as an advisor on the topic of financial literacy. As CEO of Pay Your Family First, she has dedicated her entrepreneurial efforts to the creation and distribution of financial education books, games, curriculums, and other experiential learning projects. Everything about Sharon’s career centers around impacting others to improve their financial IQ, access untapped potential personally and in business, and create their own legacy.
 But everything changed in 2012 when Sharon’s son unexpectedly died. All of Sharon’s successes seemed to fade into the background. She kept working, but on autopilot. She stopped playing at the level she always had and just started coasting.
 Until now.
 Now, Sharon is back and playing big again, and she wants you to as well with the Play Big Movement. It’s time to shed the limitations that have stopped you in the past. It’s time to play big, master your money and time, and create maximum impact.
 Sharon lives in Paradise Valley, AZ with her husband and business partner, Michael Lechter, a powerhouse in the area of Intellectual Property, Organizational Architecture, and Publishing. Together, they love spending time with each other and especially like to get away to their dude ranch, Cherry Creek Lodge, where they can get “off the grid” (literally) and get recharged for their next big play.
 Sharon continues to be a committed philanthropist by giving back to world communities both as a benefactor and a volunteer and has been honored with numerous awards.
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/73d5d5a8-b329-11eb-9f0f-e3e19721b306/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Don’t wait for the light at the end of the tunnel</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Become the Beacon of Light with Sharon Lechter
 Don’t wait for the light at the end of the tunnel….Become the Beacon of Light Today As an entrepreneur, international speaker, best-selling author, mentor, philanthropist, licensed CPA, and a Chartered Global Management Accountant, Sharon Lechter is the premier expert for financial literacy and entrepreneurial success.
 A lifelong education advocate, in 1989, Sharon joined forces with the inventor of the first electronic ‘talking book’ and helped him expand the electronic book industry to a multi-million dollar international market.
 In 1997 Sharon co-authored the international bestseller Rich Dad Poor Dad and has released 14 other books in the Rich Dad series. Over 10 years as the co-founder and CEO, she built the empire into the world’s leading personal finance brand.
 In 2008, she was asked by the Napoleon Hill Foundation to help re-energize the powerful teachings of Napoleon Hill just as the international economy was faltering. Sharon has released three bestselling books in cooperation with the Foundation, including Think and Grow Rich-Three Feet from Gold, Outwitting the Devil, and her latest project, Think and Grow Rich for Women, released in June of 2014. She is also featured in the 2017 movie Think and Grow Rich: The Legacy and has released the book Save Wisely, Spend Happily in cooperation with the American Institute of CPAs.
 Sharon Lechter | About Story Sharon is a highly sought-after mentor and has worked with major brands like Disney and Time Warner and served two U.S. Presidents as an advisor on the topic of financial literacy. As CEO of Pay Your Family First, she has dedicated her entrepreneurial efforts to the creation and distribution of financial education books, games, curriculums, and other experiential learning projects. Everything about Sharon’s career centers around impacting others to improve their financial IQ, access untapped potential personally and in business, and create their own legacy.
 But everything changed in 2012 when Sharon’s son unexpectedly died. All of Sharon’s successes seemed to fade into the background. She kept working, but on autopilot. She stopped playing at the level she always had and just started coasting.
 Until now.
 Now, Sharon is back and playing big again, and she wants you to as well with the Play Big Movement. It’s time to shed the limitations that have stopped you in the past. It’s time to play big, master your money and time, and create maximum impact.
 Sharon lives in Paradise Valley, AZ with her husband and business partner, Michael Lechter, a powerhouse in the area of Intellectual Property, Organizational Architecture, and Publishing. Together, they love spending time with each other and especially like to get away to their dude ranch, Cherry Creek Lodge, where they can get “off the grid” (literally) and get recharged for their next big play.
 Sharon continues to be a committed philanthropist by giving back to world communities both as a benefactor and a volunteer and has been honored with numerous awards.
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Become the Beacon of Light<br> with Sharon Lechter<br></strong></h1> Don’t wait for the light at the end of the tunnel….Become the Beacon of Light Today <p>As an entrepreneur, international speaker, best-selling author, mentor, philanthropist, licensed CPA, and a Chartered Global Management Accountant, <strong>Sharon Lechter</strong> is the premier expert for financial literacy and entrepreneurial success.</p> <p>A lifelong education advocate, in 1989, Sharon joined forces with the inventor of the first electronic ‘talking book’ and helped him expand the electronic book industry to a multi-million dollar international market.</p> <p>In 1997 Sharon co-authored the international bestseller Rich Dad Poor Dad and has released 14 other books in the Rich Dad series. Over 10 years as the co-founder and CEO, she built the empire into the world’s leading personal finance brand.</p> <p>In 2008, she was asked by the Napoleon Hill Foundation to help re-energize the powerful teachings of Napoleon Hill just as the international economy was faltering. Sharon has released three bestselling books in cooperation with the Foundation, including Think and Grow Rich-Three Feet from Gold, Outwitting the Devil, and her latest project, Think and Grow Rich for Women, released in June of 2014. She is also featured in the 2017 movie Think and Grow Rich: The Legacy and has released the book Save Wisely, Spend Happily in cooperation with the American Institute of CPAs.</p> <p><strong>Sharon Lechter | About Story</strong><br> Sharon is a highly sought-after mentor and has worked with major brands like Disney and Time Warner and served two U.S. Presidents as an advisor on the topic of financial literacy. As CEO of Pay Your Family First, she has dedicated her entrepreneurial efforts to the creation and distribution of financial education books, games, curriculums, and other experiential learning projects. Everything about Sharon’s career centers around impacting others to improve their financial IQ, access untapped potential personally and in business, and create their own legacy.</p> <p>But everything changed in 2012 when Sharon’s son unexpectedly died. All of Sharon’s successes seemed to fade into the background. She kept working, but on autopilot. She stopped playing at the level she always had and just started coasting.</p> <p>Until now.</p> <p>Now, Sharon is back and playing big again, and she wants you to as well with the Play Big Movement. It’s time to shed the limitations that have stopped you in the past. It’s time to play big, master your money and time, and create maximum impact.</p> <p>Sharon lives in Paradise Valley, AZ with her husband and business partner, Michael Lechter, a powerhouse in the area of Intellectual Property, Organizational Architecture, and Publishing. Together, they love spending time with each other and especially like to get away to their dude ranch, Cherry Creek Lodge, where they can get “off the grid” (literally) and get recharged for their next big play.</p> <p>Sharon continues to be a committed philanthropist by giving back to world communities both as a benefactor and a volunteer and has been honored with numerous awards.</p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3426</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <title>Top 3 Ways Media Can Increase Visibility and Raise Support For Your Nonprofit</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/top-3-ways-media-can-increase-visibility-and-raise-support-for-your-nonprofit</link>
      <description>Top 3 Ways Media Can Increase Visibility and Raise Support For Your Nonprofit with Michelle Calloway
 Michelle Calloway is an International Speaker, Bestselling Author, and CEO of an innovative software and media solutions company called REVEALiO.
 REVEALiO helps business owners attract clients through unique, robust interactive storytelling experiences that literally make your message COME ALIVE right before their eyes!
 Michelle has been featured in Inc. Magazine, and praised by Kevin Harrington, of ABC’s Hit TV Show, Shark Tank, for providing small business owners with a unique differentiator that creates powerful organic conversions.
 She is driven by success and determined to help forward-thinking businesses gain the ultimate competitive advantage by captivating their audiences and influencing buying decisions with media storytelling and interactive branded experiences.
 Michelle is also Founder of the Tech With Heart Network, an online business community, and TV show. Her Tech With Heart Network further empowers small business owners to achieve rapid success leveraging the power of media exposure and celebrity status. The power of this network can take a new business owner with no pre-existing track record and create instant credibility in any market.
 One of the best ways for nonprofits to gain support via partners and funding is to get people to quickly understand and relate to our story. Media and publicity is a very powerful way to convey that story and get it shared across regions and countries. In this interview, I will discuss three powerful ways to use media and publicity (for free) to help your nonprofit gain more visibility and support.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/73e8b920-b329-11eb-9f0f-4ba368be90e2/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Michelle Calloway</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Top 3 Ways Media Can Increase Visibility and Raise Support For Your Nonprofit with Michelle Calloway
 Michelle Calloway is an International Speaker, Bestselling Author, and CEO of an innovative software and media solutions company called REVEALiO.
 REVEALiO helps business owners attract clients through unique, robust interactive storytelling experiences that literally make your message COME ALIVE right before their eyes!
 Michelle has been featured in Inc. Magazine, and praised by Kevin Harrington, of ABC’s Hit TV Show, Shark Tank, for providing small business owners with a unique differentiator that creates powerful organic conversions.
 She is driven by success and determined to help forward-thinking businesses gain the ultimate competitive advantage by captivating their audiences and influencing buying decisions with media storytelling and interactive branded experiences.
 Michelle is also Founder of the Tech With Heart Network, an online business community, and TV show. Her Tech With Heart Network further empowers small business owners to achieve rapid success leveraging the power of media exposure and celebrity status. The power of this network can take a new business owner with no pre-existing track record and create instant credibility in any market.
 One of the best ways for nonprofits to gain support via partners and funding is to get people to quickly understand and relate to our story. Media and publicity is a very powerful way to convey that story and get it shared across regions and countries. In this interview, I will discuss three powerful ways to use media and publicity (for free) to help your nonprofit gain more visibility and support.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Top 3 Ways Media Can Increase Visibility and Raise Support For Your Nonprofit<br> with Michelle Calloway</strong></h1> <p><strong>Michelle Calloway</strong> is an International Speaker, Bestselling Author, and CEO of an innovative software and media solutions company called REVEALiO.</p> <p>REVEALiO helps business owners attract clients through unique, robust interactive storytelling experiences that literally make your message COME ALIVE right before their eyes!</p> <p>Michelle has been featured in Inc. Magazine, and praised by Kevin Harrington, of ABC’s Hit TV Show, Shark Tank, for providing small business owners with a unique differentiator that creates powerful organic conversions.</p> <p>She is driven by success and determined to help forward-thinking businesses gain the ultimate competitive advantage by captivating their audiences and influencing buying decisions with media storytelling and interactive branded experiences.</p> <p>Michelle is also Founder of the <a href="https://techwithheartnetwork.com/">Tech With Heart Network</a>, an online business community, and TV show. Her Tech With Heart Network further empowers small business owners to achieve rapid success leveraging the power of media exposure and celebrity status. The power of this network can take a new business owner with no pre-existing track record and create instant credibility in any market.</p> <p>One of the best ways for nonprofits to gain support via partners and funding is to get people to quickly understand and relate to our story. Media and publicity is a very powerful way to convey that story and get it shared across regions and countries. In this interview, I will discuss three powerful ways to use media and publicity (for free) to help your nonprofit gain more visibility and support.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3148</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Nonprofit Fundraising in our COVID-19 World with Martin Leifeld</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofit-fundraising-in-our-covid-19-world-with-martin-leifeld</link>
      <description>Nonprofit Fundraising in our COVID-19 World with Martin Leifeld
 Martin Leifeld, author, coach, consultant, and public speaker directed the raising of over $500 million dollars during his 24 years of fundraising leadership in the St. Louis region. Martin authored the book, FIVE MINUTES FOR FUNDRAISING - A Collection of Expert Advice from Gifted Fundraisers. MartinLeifeld.com provides nearly 125 video presentations about leadership and fundraising matters.
 Martin served as vice chancellor for university advancement at UMSL for 10 years. He led a dramatic increase in fundraising, averaging $26.4 million per year. University Advancement had 140 employees and a $16 million budget focusing upon alumni engagement, community relations, fundraising, marketing and communication, university events, and St. Louis Public Radio. 
 Previously, Martin was associate vice president for university development at Saint Louis University and director of development for the Diocese of Belleville, Ill.
 Martin was named the 2018 Outstanding Fundraising Executive by the AFP St. Louis Regional Chapter. Martin was selected as the 2020 Millard S. Cohen Lifetime Achievement Award from St. Louis Public Radio (KWMU).
  
 Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings. This is Hugh Ballou. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Every week, we have a guest who has knowledge and wisdom, and experience in a topic. They have been there and done it, and they have some things to share with you. You’re sitting in the seat as clergy, nonprofit leader, or board chair. Maybe you’re a business person thinking about launching a nonprofit. This series is here to help you think out of the box, think of some new paradigms, and learn from some people who are experienced.
 Today, my guest is from St. Louis, Missouri. He is the author of this book, Five Minutes for Fundraising: A Collection of Expert Advice from Gifted Fundraisers. Martin Leifeld, welcome. Would you tell people a little bit about yourself, and why is it that you do what you do?
 Martin Leifeld: First of all, it’s an honor to be on your program today, and I appreciate your audience. I hope I can be helpful.
 I’ve been in various leadership roles for around 45 years. 25 years of those were in small and larger universities. 25 years, although they didn’t overlap exactly with the universities, I have been involved in fundraising. About two years ago, I retired after 10 years as vice chancellor for advancement at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, which is our local urban land grant university here in St. Louis. I had a wonderful run there.
 Long story short, here in the St. Louis region, which is where I spent my 25 years of fundraising, over $500 million raised, that’s a lot of money for St. Louis. It’s not about the dollars raised; it’s about the involvement, the lives changed, and the impact because of the dollars raised. Two years ago, I retired. It wasn’t my timing, to be honest with you. I had health issues. My handle in the last couple of years has been author, coach, consultant, and speaker. A little bit of everything. I think you know what I mean. I have a website, MartinLeifeld.com. There are over 120 videos there on fundraising and leadership. You were kind enough to point out the book. I have been doing podcasts, a couple dozen of them, and regular postings, particularly on LinkedIn.
 I am trying to give back. This is all about trying to give back to a profession that has been such a blessing for me, so good for me in so many respects. Certainly developed professional skills. I have grown as a person by doing this extraordinary work of fundraising.
 Hugh: We have in the audience two fundraisers who are CFRE. They’re here because they heard about you. We’ll let them ask questions later.
 Martin: I’m beginning to sweat, Hugh.
 Hugh: They’re very nice people.
 Martin: I hope so.
 Hugh: I had a funding professional last month. He said he reads a fundraising book a week. My area is transformational leadership and the conductor. The best leaders I worked with in corporate or nonprofits are the people who are always working on themselves. The famous speaker Jim Rohn always said, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.” I wrote that down and have been working on it ever since. 73, and still working.
 Martin: I’m impressed by somebody who would read a book weekly. There is a chapter in the book called, “The Three C’s of Fundraising.” The first is competence. If you want to be involved in fundraising, being somebody of impact who makes a difference, you have to develop competency. There are two ways to do that.
 One is lifelong learning. You are a student of the game, of the practice. That can include certifications and the like. You mentioned CFRE, which makes me nervous. You go to webinars like this, podcasts, so on and so forth, to remain educated and current in the field. But book-learning alone doesn’t make you an impactful person in the work of philanthropy. You have to add to that experience. In any profession, if you’re working diligently and are learning, being humble as you work your way through successes and failures, you should acquire the kind of experience that makes that study you do come to life and be most virtuous. That’s just competence.
 You have to have confidence. Confidence is not bravado. It’s not fake it until you make it. Real confidence grows alongside the development of competence.
 But to get to your point, the third C is character. What donors want is someone who is competent. They want to recognize a competent professional who is doing their work with excellence and to have that quiet confidence that comes over the course of time. But what they are really looking for is people with outstanding character, people who are virtuous and trustworthy, people who you might say they know they can do business with. They can shake hands and make something happen.
 If you don’t have all three operating, I don’t think you can be a master in any profession.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I have earmarked a few things. I want to talk to you about the correlation between leadership and fundraising. Did you just sit down and say, “I want to write a book?” What was the inspiration, and how did you connect with the people in there, who are all experienced fundraising professionals?
 Martin: You might find this story curious. Since I turned 30, every consecutive decade since, on the 9th, the 29th, the 39th, etc., I would use that year very deliberately to reflect on my life up to that point, trying to look at success and failure, places for improvement. To look at the next 10 years and try to project what I can do to have an impact. I should say every decade, I got more intense about this, too.
 Six years ago, when I was 59, I was really working through that year. I decided in that spring to take 100 days and really drill down about the future. Every day in my journal, Day 1/100, Day 15/100, I began my journal. Journaling is part of my morning ritual. Seeking ahead, you might say. Believe it or not, around day 72/73/75, I have what I call a small I, inspiration. The inspiration, as I referred, was to give back to the profession. I wanted to start there.
 I thought, Well, I had done so much mentoring and coaching and fundraising with staff and volunteers. I was very good at doing something briefly. Somebody asked a question, as you can tell, I can go on for five minutes. Five minutes, I can give a good answer that would be appreciated. Maybe I could do some brief videos. Then I thought, Well, not everyone wants to watch a video, let alone look at me for a few minutes. People prefer to read. Let me do both.
 So the genesis of the book logistically was transcribing my first year and a half of videos on these very subjects. Hugh, you may know this, and your audience may also. Seven minutes of video, especially the speed at which I talk, only translates to a few pages. I got into this and thought, I am not going to have a book. The other part of this was I never tried to give a comprehensive answer about something. It was more stuff I noodled about, experimented with, discovered that I thought was helpful.
 That is what prompted me to go out and recruit 26 others to join me as collaborators in this. It was a fun experience because maybe 60% of them I knew, some very well, but the others I went out and recruited based on word of mouth and reference. I had to establish a relationship with them, like a donor, and ask them for their assistance. I found overwhelming willingness to be supportive.
 Hugh: Wow. 26 of them here, all by name. Each chapter says, “Collaboration.” Speak a little bit about how collaboration works for you, and how it manifested itself in the book. It’s interesting how you have each section with dots and italics to stand apart, where there is a dialogue.
 Martin: What I was trying to do was say something about the particular subjects, insight and angle. I had come to realize through experience and effort and training. Then I wanted to enrich it. I tried to find people. I called them collaborators. In other words, I wanted to start with what I had to say about a particular subject and ask them to add to it. Nobody really directly contradicted me as a collaborator. But they collaborated in the sense that they took the content seriously and enhanced it with their own reflections. Many of them added stories that put the flesh on the bones of the point of the chapter. It was interesting. If I had asked people to write it, they wouldn’t have written it because they were too busy. I had somebody help me interview them. We came to it in different ways based on the needs and availability and interest of my collaborators. I tried to collaborate logistically and practically in order to have them help, but they were generous about their time.
 The thing about this word “collaboration” is the goal is a joint thing we do together. The goal is to bring the best of more than one person to bear in order to, as you talk about with synergy with your organization, to get that synergistic gain, to get that exponential gain that you can’t get with just yourself necessarily. Even if you have the authority with CFRE.
 Hugh: People introduce me sometimes as Hugh Ballou, an expert in leadership. I say, “I’m Hugh Ballou, a serious student of leadership.”
 Martin: Hear, hear.
 Hugh: The title of this episode is, “Fundraising in COVID-19.” And the post-COVID-19 world. There are some consistent things and some new thoughts. That chapter with leadership, the Three C’s, your collaborator said, “ABC: Authenticity, belief, and confidence.” You and I were talking before about how fundraising is terrifying for a lot of us. I don’t want to go. It’s like when I was a teenager calling a girl for a date. I didn’t want to get turned down, so I stood by the phone and sweat. Is that like people wanting to make a money call? What is it about trying to raise money that is so fearful?
 Martin: I don’t know. It’s all about fear. It’s the fear of the unknown. It’s the fear of being rejected. The fear of fumbling your way through it. The fear of someone being rude to you. If you will be embarrassed in front of them or embarrass them. It’s something new. I haven’t done it before. For those in religious work, it’s unseemly. I shouldn’t have to do that kind of thing as a pastor. Leave that to someone else to do. There is a lot of things.
 When I first got into major gift fundraising, in the St. Louis area, I would criss-cross southern Illinois, a larger rural area, sometimes driving an hour or an hour and a half to see someone. Talk about sweating bullets. I would rehearse half the trip, “Hugh, would you and Mary consider a gift for the education of poor elementary kids, a gift of $10,000? You could even pay that over three years.” I would say that over and over again because I couldn’t trust myself. When I first began to do it, and I fumbled, it was a long drive back, knowing I hadn’t done what I set out to do. I began to rehearse very seriously. Once I got in the home or the office, who knows what might happen? It might be something I couldn’t predict. All I had to do was say, “Hugh and Mary,” and out would come the rest because I had rehearsed it. For those of you being called upon to raise money, practice makes perfect. You can do it.
 But let me shift into something more serious. Fundraising is a privilege. Fundraising is the most honorable of work. Fundraising is a spiritual work. Fundraising is actually a vocation. I came to this once I was talking to a very wise woman about fundraising and the struggles. She said, ‘Martin, you’re in a helping profession.” A helping profession? I had never thought of it that way. I thought, Especially now, physicians, nurses, first responders, educators, oh my gosh, the young families. Two of my kids are educating kids at home. They have a manifold of appreciation of what it takes to be an educator now that they are trying to do that in their living rooms and around the kitchen table.
 But I hadn’t thought of my profession of being something that was actually about helping. That’s what it is. What we do as fundraisers are facilitators in effect. I like to refer to myself as a facilitator of philanthropy. What we do is on behalf of worthy causes. In effect, what we want to do is come alongside, almost put our arm around someone’s shoulder, and say, “Look, there is an opportunity that makes sense to you as I have gotten to know you, and through which you can demonstrate great impact on this world. Here is the idea. Would you consider it?” That kind of work is very powerful and honorable work.
 I have had the privilege, as many of your audience have had, of interacting with some people of extraordinary success, Fortune 25 executives. I have had some of those people say to me, “Martin, I could never do that job. That is too hard a job.” Some of them knew it first-hand because they were chairmen of nonprofits or board members. They were called upon to go out and do it. They knew first-hand what I was doing full-time. They respected it. We underestimate the value, the contribution we are making in this work.
 Hugh: Wow. That’s a paradigm shift. Somewhere, and it may be in this chapter, “Five Generous Fundraisers,” before we talk more about donors, let’s consider you as the fundraiser. Somewhere, you talk about the impact it has on donors to actually donate. There is a point of philanthropy that releases something in you to make that donation, to see something happen. Talk about that. That is an inspiration that we don’t think about, the impact that it has on the donor.
 Martin: First of all, it’s all about the donor. What we tend to do is focus on ourselves. In one sense, we should because we want to be professional and effective and do the job with excellence. We also want to represent our organizations with integrity, as effectively as we can. It’s all about the donor. What we’re into is a business of building lifelong relationships, not just after a transaction. We want to build and support the relationship that the donor has with the organization for their lifetime hopefully. In that relationship-building process, there are opportunities for financial exchange. What this is about is not a transaction although writing a check or giving away stock or a document with a commitment is part of it. But what it’s really about is helping people to influence the world for the better, and to demonstrate their values and what matters most to them.
 In that process of a donor taking their eyes off of themselves and looking outward, looking at, “Okay, I have been fortunate enough to have accrued these assets,” rather than being preoccupied with how I could take care of myself, I am going to give it to others or to the world to improve it. As they do that, they become greater people. Biochemically, by the way, we change. Enzymes are released. One person called it the family bonding enzyme. I used to notice that somebody would make a big gift to one of my organizations and suddenly they would be everywhere. They would be at every event, bringing friends and colleagues, talking about the organization with great enthusiasm. What’s this all about? By their making a serious commitment, a gift of greater significance, there was something that happened within their entire being. A wise man, as you know, once said, “It’s better to give than to receive.” There is something we receive as an internal, spiritual, reward by giving of ourselves generously. One of the ways we give ourselves generously, certainly in this contemporary age, is with financial resources in addition to our time and talents.
 Hugh: That’s so good. The other thing I earmarked is you wrote this chapter about the donor development cycle. There is a transaction, and there are those who never ask for the sale. I have been there many times. One higher net worth person asked me, “You didn’t ask for the sale.” It was my first conversation to get acquainted. But he was a businessman, “What do you want?” Another one, I am packing up to leave after I told him about what I was doing. He said, “Don’t you want a check?” Then he wrote me a check and handed one to me a lot bigger than I thought. That was about relationships.
 But this cycle, you go through steps, identification, qualification, and more. Talk about the process. There is a transaction, but there is a lot more to this process.
 Martin: The bottom line is this is about a relationship. In the course of a relationship, you go through seasons. In this particular cycle that we use in our fundraising business, you identify. Then qualify, which means are these people of capacity? Are these people who have an interest or potential interest in what we represent?
 Then we cultivate, which is about building a relationship and involving them in the organization. That can include charitable giving, but not a gift of greater significance. As we get to know them, we are able to think about, Okay, given what they are interested in, how does that align with what we are about as an organization? What dimensions of our organization would be something that would make sense to them, that they would desire to support?
 Then we have the conversation about asking. Some people are proponents of never asking for money. They just listen their way to a gift. I have always believed to have conversations about money, about scale, about impact, about size. That might be, with this amount, you can do this and that. Provide some options. But I always want to be working with numbers. People want to know what we would like them to do. My experience has been perhaps more often the opposite of yours. If I don’t ask, I get something smaller than what I had hoped for. I have always been one to say, “Let’s talk about money.” It’s a part of life. It’s how we carry on in this world. Most people want to get to the bottom line, “How much do you want?” They can say yes, no, maybe so. They want to make that happen, but they can’t make that happen now, or they will have to think more creatively about it. They can’t write a check.
 I have always taught our people the 80/20 rule. Listen 80% of the time. COVID-19 has brought us to a hard stop here in some respects, but when you think about the frenetic pace of life that has only gotten faster and faster during our adult years, it has reached the point of sheer lunacy. Was anyone listening to anybody? One of the reasons we are such a divided nation is we completely lost the ability to listen, and listen with respect. What I found in fundraising, and I think many professionals in other fields would say the same thing, if you want success in your life, in your business, in your endeavors, you listen. It wouldn’t be that I would listen 100% of the time. But what I found is people desperately wanted to be heard. They wanted to be listened to attentively, appreciatively, and respectfully. Honestly, when I think about to what extent I was a great fundraiser in my career, it’s because of the power of listening. I have to ask for money, too. But listening puts us in that best position to understand.
 What I would do is retain, record, and retrieve. Three R’s. Retain. Somebody had something to say during the course of the conversation. I was listening closely and thinking, That’s important.
 Record. I would get in the car, call my assistant, and tell them, “Start taking notes.” Or I’d get back to the office and start typing at my computer. I would record all the various things I thought would be insightful and helpful, not just for me, but for anyone in my organization who would have reason to engage with those people.
 This is all about preparation. When I would prepare for my next visit, I would retrieve. The thing is in work like this, we are in front of different wonderful people each day. If a month has passed, there is no guarantee I would remember what someone said was important to them a month ago. One way I would respect them is I would retain, record, and retrieve, so that when I would return to them, I could say, “Hugh, so how’s Mary Alice doing? You were talking about her facing that surgery.” Or, “Hugh, how’s that billy goat dog of yours doing? You were worried about this.” Or, “Hugh, you said you were going to be marrying off your son Charlie. How’d it go?” People know I am representing the organization, but they love the fact that I listened to them as people. I cared about them as people. Do you think when it came to talking about a gift eventually, that put me in a better position to be taken seriously? Without question.
 It seems like, Geez, this is common sense, isn’t it? We have lost a lot of common sense.
 Hugh: The problem with common sense is it’s not very common.
 *Sponsored by EZCard*
 Let’s pivot. You talked about some brilliant reframing of some old scripts we tell ourselves that minimize ourselves. I am guilty as anybody else, maybe more. That’s not my job. I teach leadership.
 We have been in an era of lockdown. We are going back to work in Virginia. Churches are a sort of meeting with very limited engagement. No children. No singing. There is a new paradigm of how the exercise classes are in the parking lot with rain all week. People are getting paychecks from unemployment. What if that money runs out? Then what? We are facing some new challenges. How does that impact fundraising going forward?
 Martin: If you look back to the great recession, some sectors did better than other sectors in terms of fundraising. In the great recession, I had just come to the University of Missouri to take a campaign that was already underway public. I was there a month, and the economic sky fell. The world was thrown in the craziness. It doesn’t exactly line up with our situation today, but there are some similarities certainly. Long story short, we decided to go ahead with our campaign. In my first year there, we raised 54% more than any other year in the history of that institution. When I hear someone say, “Boy, we can’t ask for money now. People don’t have it,” I immediately say, “That’s not necessarily true.”
 One thing I would say is this: If somebody is philanthropic, and they have less money, are they less philanthropic? I don’t think so. Philanthropy is a part of a value system. Let me ask you this about the organization you represent. Has its value proposition changed because of this pandemic? No, it hasn’t. Now, if you are a food bank, there might be more urgency, immediacy. Crises bring out people’s desire to try to do something for others, whether it’s by cutting a check or by cheering on the streets for the first responders and nurses. People want to be supportive. One way they are supportive is certainly with their philanthropic support.
 Hugh: Love it. Would you like to have some questions from our audience?
 Martin: As long as they’re all soft balls.
 Hugh: No guarantees. There’s Jeffrey Fulgham from Richmond, Virginia. He is a CFRE and has done many good things. Used to be in Lynchburg, but moved just a couple hours away. Do you have a particular observation or question for our guest today?
 Jeffrey Fulgham: I don’t really have a question, but I love what I’m hearing, Martin. The first thing when I came on (I missed the very beginning) is the part you were talking about studying, and that’s only part of the equation. You can glean all this information, but if you started moving through your presentation, you were talking about relationships, which has always been the meat of this business. It’s never more important than it is right now of letting folks know we care about them, and you hit that nail right on the head. That’s what I have been preaching to my clients and associates: how important it is to stay connected to people and let them know that this relationship is a personal relationship before a financial relationship.
 I really liked what you said about character because I think that’s the core of what we’re doing. It’s the core of leadership. If you don’t have the character, you probably shouldn’t be a fundraiser or in leadership either.
 The other thing that you mentioned about evaluating, that was so good. I didn’t start doing it early enough. I wish I had done it the way you did it. The last five years, I have taken the month of December, or January because we are so darn busy in December that we don’t have the time. I did a post-mortem on the year and on my life. How could I be better? This is great stuff. I’m glad I connected today.
 Martin: Jeffrey, pleased to meet you, and thanks for your great comments. I’m glad I’m in the ballpark with mine. One of the things, in fact, I just did a podcast on this, writing a chapter on someone’s book on morning rituals. Every morning, as part of my morning ritual, I have one page in my personal/professional planner (I call it that), and I review what matters most about my life. That is a way for me to get locked and loaded for the day, in order to go forth and have the greatest impact possible, as a professional, but as a person. What am I all about as a person? Being able to define that, have it clarified, reviewing it every day has been amazingly powerful.
 One other thing I would say around the word “authenticity” is people want to be authentic, and they want authentic people in front of them. We don’t have to be perfect in our work, but we want to be respectful, thoughtful, and do it the best way we can. Fundraisers come in all shapes, sizes, and abilities, and they understand that. But they don’t want a fake, a snake salesman. They want a human being that they can respect and look up to. That’s what they want from us.
 Jeffrey: I definitely agree with that. That authenticity and character and genuineness, people would ask me about having these relationships with people. I said, “You have to be in a genuine relationship. You can’t have a relationship where you want someone to think that it’s about the fact that you like them and want to be in a relationship, but it’s really about the money, so you are clocking it so that it looks genuine. It might work for a little while, but it won’t work for you forever. If you really want to have successful fundraising, it’s about long-term relationships with people.” I’m fortunate that I am connected to people who I am three or four organizations removed from now. I still have relationships with them, and I still talk to them, especially right now with everything going on. Staying in touch. That’s the fun part of this business. It’s the most fun.
 Martin: The relationships is the most gratifying part of the deal. It’s not about the dollars raised although that’s great, too, because it can accomplish great things. In our business, we get to meet the most wonderful people. Phenomenal people. When I think about my own personal and professional development, a lot of it was profoundly stimulated by the people I have gotten to spend time with in this work of fundraising.
 Hugh: And I have gotten to spend time with Jeffrey and Bob Hopkins. Bob, you’ve been quietly listening. Do you have a question or comment for our guest today?
 Bob Hopkins: I’m in my backyard outside. Didn’t know I had any airwaves back here. Beautiful day in Dallas by the way. I am loving listening to you. After 40 years of doing this kind of thing, you think you know it all. While I might say I do, it’s so much fun to remember some of the key aspects of the fundraising process. When you first started talking, I thought, Why doesn’t he talk about listening? Sure enough, 15 minutes later, you talked about listening. I am so grateful for that conversation. I teach speech, and I’m teaching people how to talk. But there is a chapter in my book called “Listening.” I spend about five minutes on listening because I don’t think people need to know anything about it, and I am so wrong. As you said, the 80/20 thing is so true. I have so many great stories of when I didn’t listen, and you know what? I didn’t get the gift. Or when I listened and waited and patiently took my time about receiving, that I got about six times more money than I would have gotten had I asked earlier when the person wasn’t ready.
 Martin: It’s such a great comment. Pleased to meet you. We talk about this in a lot of fields, the blending of art and science. As I said, developing competency is about education and experience. Maybe that’s the better way. This is a work you learn on the job; it’s on the job training. As we stick with it, it saddens me when I think about the turnover in the profession. If something is willing to stick with it and keep at it, as you all know, the satisfaction is phenomenal to be in this work. To become competent at it over time is immensely gratifying. Beautiful horse by the way, Bob.
 Hugh: That’s not his current one. He has one he is really proud of. That’s his passion. One day, I was having lunch with him in Dallas, and he went off on this horse thing when I asked him about his passion.
 The principle is 80/20. 80% of your results are produced by 20% of your people. 80% of your inventory only produces 20% of your profits, but 20% produces 80% of your profits. It goes with donors; it’s a repeated principle. When I wrote my first book, Moving Spirits, Building Lives, it’s about church musicians and transformational leaders. That is when I moved into leadership. It took me 40 years to write this and 30 days to put it on paper when I was leaving the profession. I determined in that book the Ballou 10/90 principle. As a music director, 10% of my job was music; 90% made that possible. I am thinking as far as a professional fundraiser, the 10% is what people see, but 90% is under the iceberg. 90% is relationship, staying in touch, that allows that 10% to happen. There is a lot that happens that is invisible to most people, but that is where the hard lifting is.
 Let’s hit real hard on this. We still have money in the economy. The fed printed more digital currency. Money didn’t go away. Some people are struggling to make ends meet, but some companies are doing really well. Google had a record-breaking quarter. Grocery stores are slammed. There are some ministries that are challenged. Some restaurants are out of business. There is still money out there and people who want to make a difference. What is the change of mindset for addressing the new normal here?
 Martin: In some ways, the mindset hasn’t changed. In other words, we have an organization worthy of support that is doing important work in this world. We are engaging with people who want to make a difference with their lives and resources to the extent that they can. They may have taken a hit financially, so they may not be able to do something right now. They may have to structure it differently. Back in the great recession, we mentioned we raised 54% more than any other prior year in the institution’s history, that wasn’t people writing a bunch of huge checks. People were writing smaller checks, making pledges over longer periods of time, putting gifts in their estates, and so on. Bundle it all together, and it would be a number that was not insignificant for them, but they couldn’t do it. Even today, a year ago, someone might give you a large number with checks over a couple of years. Now, they still want to give you that number, but it will be put together in a different kind of package.
 What we need to do is be sensitive to people. We are all talking the same talk here. We have to put the concern for the people first. There are relationships. If we treat them that way, whether they can make a gift now or later, we are building the relationship for the long term. We are doing our job with the relationship by putting them and their concerns first. We all have stories and connections, a degree or two away from us, of people who have been profoundly impacted by this. We should know it firsthand, and be sensitive as we engage with others.
 To raise major gifts, it’s typically a face-to-face, labor-intensive business. Up until very recently, there hasn’t been any face-to-face work. Difficult to have a talk with a donor ten feet apart. Tools like Zoom, even my sister who just turned 80 years old knows how to use Zoom. We can all use Zoom. People welcome Zoom calls or the equivalent. They desire that human interaction. If we get on a call like this, we just have a conversation, and we listen to them, that’s powerful.
 Hugh: whoever thought of this term “social distancing,” it’s physical distancing. We are still social. Anti-social distancing. This book is chock-full of stuff that is not rocket science. It’s a solid experience when people have been there and done it. Stuff that most of us don’t know. You have been around and done this for years; you’ve practiced this. I’m a musician. We rehearse. You have rehearsed a lot. What I am so appreciative of is you put it in a book to share with people. Why should people have this book? Where can they get it?
 Martin: Why they should get it is it’s a way of staying current in the work. If you are a beginner, it’s an insightful introduction to the work. It’s getting 27 seasoned professionals’ input, not just one’s. I call it Five Minutes for Fundraisingbecause each chapter is about a five-minute read. They are stand-alone chapters. You don’t have to read it in consecutively. You can go to what resonates or what you need right now.
 In terms of the book, if you want an autographed one, 15% off, no shipping and handling, go to MartinLeifeld.com and order it there. You can get it on Amazon as well. Like any book, it’s available on multiple channels.
 Hugh: It’s not an expensive book.
 *Sponsored by EZCard* *Message about a Youth Philanthropy Conference on 6/27*
 This has been a very helpful interview. Lots of good sound bites. What do you want to leave people with today? What is a challenge or thought as we go into the unknown?
 Martin: Every day we are going into the unknown. That was six months ago, too. It’s new every morning, as it says in the Book of Lamentations, for those of you who look at the Bible. What we’re after is helping people become greater through philanthropy. We’re doing that through putting them first, respecting who they are, helping them to demonstrate their value system to the world. Hopefully, by working with our organization as part of their way of doing so. We are privileged. It’s honorable work. It’s worth people devoting their lives to.
 Not to highlight myself, but this is powerful. When I retired two years ago, they had a party for me, which was very nice. A number of the donors were there who I had worked with for years. Unbeknownst to me, they had a video. If you go to YouTube, it’s there. This couple who were the first alumni in this young university to reach a $5 million-level gift of cumulative giving was on the video. This is what they said, and I think it pulls it together and certainly represents so much my gratitude for the work of philanthropy in my life. They said, “By teaching us about giving, Martin, you have given us a great gift. Our philanthropic involvement with the university has enhanced our lives on many levels. We owe that to you. Martin, because of your professionalism, expertise, and friendship, you made something that is truly enjoyable even more rewarding. You showed us the way to contribute in a meaningful manner, and this resulted in our receiving so much in return.”
 Hugh: What a great summary.
 Martin: Isn’t that amazing? That’s what it’s about.
 Hugh: It is amazing. You have touched people’s lives on both ends of the spectrum. Martin, thank you for sharing your wisdom and time with us today.
 Martin: Thank you.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7401c014-b329-11eb-9f0f-6fc0cbecfc1a/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Nonprofit Fundraising in our COVID-19 World with Martin Leifeld Martin Leifeld, author, coach, consultant, and public speaker directed the raising of over $500 million dollars during his 24 years of fundraising leadership in the St. Louis region....</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Nonprofit Fundraising in our COVID-19 World with Martin Leifeld
 Martin Leifeld, author, coach, consultant, and public speaker directed the raising of over $500 million dollars during his 24 years of fundraising leadership in the St. Louis region. Martin authored the book, FIVE MINUTES FOR FUNDRAISING - A Collection of Expert Advice from Gifted Fundraisers. MartinLeifeld.com provides nearly 125 video presentations about leadership and fundraising matters.
 Martin served as vice chancellor for university advancement at UMSL for 10 years. He led a dramatic increase in fundraising, averaging $26.4 million per year. University Advancement had 140 employees and a $16 million budget focusing upon alumni engagement, community relations, fundraising, marketing and communication, university events, and St. Louis Public Radio. 
 Previously, Martin was associate vice president for university development at Saint Louis University and director of development for the Diocese of Belleville, Ill.
 Martin was named the 2018 Outstanding Fundraising Executive by the AFP St. Louis Regional Chapter. Martin was selected as the 2020 Millard S. Cohen Lifetime Achievement Award from St. Louis Public Radio (KWMU).
  
 Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings. This is Hugh Ballou. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Every week, we have a guest who has knowledge and wisdom, and experience in a topic. They have been there and done it, and they have some things to share with you. You’re sitting in the seat as clergy, nonprofit leader, or board chair. Maybe you’re a business person thinking about launching a nonprofit. This series is here to help you think out of the box, think of some new paradigms, and learn from some people who are experienced.
 Today, my guest is from St. Louis, Missouri. He is the author of this book, Five Minutes for Fundraising: A Collection of Expert Advice from Gifted Fundraisers. Martin Leifeld, welcome. Would you tell people a little bit about yourself, and why is it that you do what you do?
 Martin Leifeld: First of all, it’s an honor to be on your program today, and I appreciate your audience. I hope I can be helpful.
 I’ve been in various leadership roles for around 45 years. 25 years of those were in small and larger universities. 25 years, although they didn’t overlap exactly with the universities, I have been involved in fundraising. About two years ago, I retired after 10 years as vice chancellor for advancement at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, which is our local urban land grant university here in St. Louis. I had a wonderful run there.
 Long story short, here in the St. Louis region, which is where I spent my 25 years of fundraising, over $500 million raised, that’s a lot of money for St. Louis. It’s not about the dollars raised; it’s about the involvement, the lives changed, and the impact because of the dollars raised. Two years ago, I retired. It wasn’t my timing, to be honest with you. I had health issues. My handle in the last couple of years has been author, coach, consultant, and speaker. A little bit of everything. I think you know what I mean. I have a website, MartinLeifeld.com. There are over 120 videos there on fundraising and leadership. You were kind enough to point out the book. I have been doing podcasts, a couple dozen of them, and regular postings, particularly on LinkedIn.
 I am trying to give back. This is all about trying to give back to a profession that has been such a blessing for me, so good for me in so many respects. Certainly developed professional skills. I have grown as a person by doing this extraordinary work of fundraising.
 Hugh: We have in the audience two fundraisers who are CFRE. They’re here because they heard about you. We’ll let them ask questions later.
 Martin: I’m beginning to sweat, Hugh.
 Hugh: They’re very nice people.
 Martin: I hope so.
 Hugh: I had a funding professional last month. He said he reads a fundraising book a week. My area is transformational leadership and the conductor. The best leaders I worked with in corporate or nonprofits are the people who are always working on themselves. The famous speaker Jim Rohn always said, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.” I wrote that down and have been working on it ever since. 73, and still working.
 Martin: I’m impressed by somebody who would read a book weekly. There is a chapter in the book called, “The Three C’s of Fundraising.” The first is competence. If you want to be involved in fundraising, being somebody of impact who makes a difference, you have to develop competency. There are two ways to do that.
 One is lifelong learning. You are a student of the game, of the practice. That can include certifications and the like. You mentioned CFRE, which makes me nervous. You go to webinars like this, podcasts, so on and so forth, to remain educated and current in the field. But book-learning alone doesn’t make you an impactful person in the work of philanthropy. You have to add to that experience. In any profession, if you’re working diligently and are learning, being humble as you work your way through successes and failures, you should acquire the kind of experience that makes that study you do come to life and be most virtuous. That’s just competence.
 You have to have confidence. Confidence is not bravado. It’s not fake it until you make it. Real confidence grows alongside the development of competence.
 But to get to your point, the third C is character. What donors want is someone who is competent. They want to recognize a competent professional who is doing their work with excellence and to have that quiet confidence that comes over the course of time. But what they are really looking for is people with outstanding character, people who are virtuous and trustworthy, people who you might say they know they can do business with. They can shake hands and make something happen.
 If you don’t have all three operating, I don’t think you can be a master in any profession.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I have earmarked a few things. I want to talk to you about the correlation between leadership and fundraising. Did you just sit down and say, “I want to write a book?” What was the inspiration, and how did you connect with the people in there, who are all experienced fundraising professionals?
 Martin: You might find this story curious. Since I turned 30, every consecutive decade since, on the 9th, the 29th, the 39th, etc., I would use that year very deliberately to reflect on my life up to that point, trying to look at success and failure, places for improvement. To look at the next 10 years and try to project what I can do to have an impact. I should say every decade, I got more intense about this, too.
 Six years ago, when I was 59, I was really working through that year. I decided in that spring to take 100 days and really drill down about the future. Every day in my journal, Day 1/100, Day 15/100, I began my journal. Journaling is part of my morning ritual. Seeking ahead, you might say. Believe it or not, around day 72/73/75, I have what I call a small I, inspiration. The inspiration, as I referred, was to give back to the profession. I wanted to start there.
 I thought, Well, I had done so much mentoring and coaching and fundraising with staff and volunteers. I was very good at doing something briefly. Somebody asked a question, as you can tell, I can go on for five minutes. Five minutes, I can give a good answer that would be appreciated. Maybe I could do some brief videos. Then I thought, Well, not everyone wants to watch a video, let alone look at me for a few minutes. People prefer to read. Let me do both.
 So the genesis of the book logistically was transcribing my first year and a half of videos on these very subjects. Hugh, you may know this, and your audience may also. Seven minutes of video, especially the speed at which I talk, only translates to a few pages. I got into this and thought, I am not going to have a book. The other part of this was I never tried to give a comprehensive answer about something. It was more stuff I noodled about, experimented with, discovered that I thought was helpful.
 That is what prompted me to go out and recruit 26 others to join me as collaborators in this. It was a fun experience because maybe 60% of them I knew, some very well, but the others I went out and recruited based on word of mouth and reference. I had to establish a relationship with them, like a donor, and ask them for their assistance. I found overwhelming willingness to be supportive.
 Hugh: Wow. 26 of them here, all by name. Each chapter says, “Collaboration.” Speak a little bit about how collaboration works for you, and how it manifested itself in the book. It’s interesting how you have each section with dots and italics to stand apart, where there is a dialogue.
 Martin: What I was trying to do was say something about the particular subjects, insight and angle. I had come to realize through experience and effort and training. Then I wanted to enrich it. I tried to find people. I called them collaborators. In other words, I wanted to start with what I had to say about a particular subject and ask them to add to it. Nobody really directly contradicted me as a collaborator. But they collaborated in the sense that they took the content seriously and enhanced it with their own reflections. Many of them added stories that put the flesh on the bones of the point of the chapter. It was interesting. If I had asked people to write it, they wouldn’t have written it because they were too busy. I had somebody help me interview them. We came to it in different ways based on the needs and availability and interest of my collaborators. I tried to collaborate logistically and practically in order to have them help, but they were generous about their time.
 The thing about this word “collaboration” is the goal is a joint thing we do together. The goal is to bring the best of more than one person to bear in order to, as you talk about with synergy with your organization, to get that synergistic gain, to get that exponential gain that you can’t get with just yourself necessarily. Even if you have the authority with CFRE.
 Hugh: People introduce me sometimes as Hugh Ballou, an expert in leadership. I say, “I’m Hugh Ballou, a serious student of leadership.”
 Martin: Hear, hear.
 Hugh: The title of this episode is, “Fundraising in COVID-19.” And the post-COVID-19 world. There are some consistent things and some new thoughts. That chapter with leadership, the Three C’s, your collaborator said, “ABC: Authenticity, belief, and confidence.” You and I were talking before about how fundraising is terrifying for a lot of us. I don’t want to go. It’s like when I was a teenager calling a girl for a date. I didn’t want to get turned down, so I stood by the phone and sweat. Is that like people wanting to make a money call? What is it about trying to raise money that is so fearful?
 Martin: I don’t know. It’s all about fear. It’s the fear of the unknown. It’s the fear of being rejected. The fear of fumbling your way through it. The fear of someone being rude to you. If you will be embarrassed in front of them or embarrass them. It’s something new. I haven’t done it before. For those in religious work, it’s unseemly. I shouldn’t have to do that kind of thing as a pastor. Leave that to someone else to do. There is a lot of things.
 When I first got into major gift fundraising, in the St. Louis area, I would criss-cross southern Illinois, a larger rural area, sometimes driving an hour or an hour and a half to see someone. Talk about sweating bullets. I would rehearse half the trip, “Hugh, would you and Mary consider a gift for the education of poor elementary kids, a gift of $10,000? You could even pay that over three years.” I would say that over and over again because I couldn’t trust myself. When I first began to do it, and I fumbled, it was a long drive back, knowing I hadn’t done what I set out to do. I began to rehearse very seriously. Once I got in the home or the office, who knows what might happen? It might be something I couldn’t predict. All I had to do was say, “Hugh and Mary,” and out would come the rest because I had rehearsed it. For those of you being called upon to raise money, practice makes perfect. You can do it.
 But let me shift into something more serious. Fundraising is a privilege. Fundraising is the most honorable of work. Fundraising is a spiritual work. Fundraising is actually a vocation. I came to this once I was talking to a very wise woman about fundraising and the struggles. She said, ‘Martin, you’re in a helping profession.” A helping profession? I had never thought of it that way. I thought, Especially now, physicians, nurses, first responders, educators, oh my gosh, the young families. Two of my kids are educating kids at home. They have a manifold of appreciation of what it takes to be an educator now that they are trying to do that in their living rooms and around the kitchen table.
 But I hadn’t thought of my profession of being something that was actually about helping. That’s what it is. What we do as fundraisers are facilitators in effect. I like to refer to myself as a facilitator of philanthropy. What we do is on behalf of worthy causes. In effect, what we want to do is come alongside, almost put our arm around someone’s shoulder, and say, “Look, there is an opportunity that makes sense to you as I have gotten to know you, and through which you can demonstrate great impact on this world. Here is the idea. Would you consider it?” That kind of work is very powerful and honorable work.
 I have had the privilege, as many of your audience have had, of interacting with some people of extraordinary success, Fortune 25 executives. I have had some of those people say to me, “Martin, I could never do that job. That is too hard a job.” Some of them knew it first-hand because they were chairmen of nonprofits or board members. They were called upon to go out and do it. They knew first-hand what I was doing full-time. They respected it. We underestimate the value, the contribution we are making in this work.
 Hugh: Wow. That’s a paradigm shift. Somewhere, and it may be in this chapter, “Five Generous Fundraisers,” before we talk more about donors, let’s consider you as the fundraiser. Somewhere, you talk about the impact it has on donors to actually donate. There is a point of philanthropy that releases something in you to make that donation, to see something happen. Talk about that. That is an inspiration that we don’t think about, the impact that it has on the donor.
 Martin: First of all, it’s all about the donor. What we tend to do is focus on ourselves. In one sense, we should because we want to be professional and effective and do the job with excellence. We also want to represent our organizations with integrity, as effectively as we can. It’s all about the donor. What we’re into is a business of building lifelong relationships, not just after a transaction. We want to build and support the relationship that the donor has with the organization for their lifetime hopefully. In that relationship-building process, there are opportunities for financial exchange. What this is about is not a transaction although writing a check or giving away stock or a document with a commitment is part of it. But what it’s really about is helping people to influence the world for the better, and to demonstrate their values and what matters most to them.
 In that process of a donor taking their eyes off of themselves and looking outward, looking at, “Okay, I have been fortunate enough to have accrued these assets,” rather than being preoccupied with how I could take care of myself, I am going to give it to others or to the world to improve it. As they do that, they become greater people. Biochemically, by the way, we change. Enzymes are released. One person called it the family bonding enzyme. I used to notice that somebody would make a big gift to one of my organizations and suddenly they would be everywhere. They would be at every event, bringing friends and colleagues, talking about the organization with great enthusiasm. What’s this all about? By their making a serious commitment, a gift of greater significance, there was something that happened within their entire being. A wise man, as you know, once said, “It’s better to give than to receive.” There is something we receive as an internal, spiritual, reward by giving of ourselves generously. One of the ways we give ourselves generously, certainly in this contemporary age, is with financial resources in addition to our time and talents.
 Hugh: That’s so good. The other thing I earmarked is you wrote this chapter about the donor development cycle. There is a transaction, and there are those who never ask for the sale. I have been there many times. One higher net worth person asked me, “You didn’t ask for the sale.” It was my first conversation to get acquainted. But he was a businessman, “What do you want?” Another one, I am packing up to leave after I told him about what I was doing. He said, “Don’t you want a check?” Then he wrote me a check and handed one to me a lot bigger than I thought. That was about relationships.
 But this cycle, you go through steps, identification, qualification, and more. Talk about the process. There is a transaction, but there is a lot more to this process.
 Martin: The bottom line is this is about a relationship. In the course of a relationship, you go through seasons. In this particular cycle that we use in our fundraising business, you identify. Then qualify, which means are these people of capacity? Are these people who have an interest or potential interest in what we represent?
 Then we cultivate, which is about building a relationship and involving them in the organization. That can include charitable giving, but not a gift of greater significance. As we get to know them, we are able to think about, Okay, given what they are interested in, how does that align with what we are about as an organization? What dimensions of our organization would be something that would make sense to them, that they would desire to support?
 Then we have the conversation about asking. Some people are proponents of never asking for money. They just listen their way to a gift. I have always believed to have conversations about money, about scale, about impact, about size. That might be, with this amount, you can do this and that. Provide some options. But I always want to be working with numbers. People want to know what we would like them to do. My experience has been perhaps more often the opposite of yours. If I don’t ask, I get something smaller than what I had hoped for. I have always been one to say, “Let’s talk about money.” It’s a part of life. It’s how we carry on in this world. Most people want to get to the bottom line, “How much do you want?” They can say yes, no, maybe so. They want to make that happen, but they can’t make that happen now, or they will have to think more creatively about it. They can’t write a check.
 I have always taught our people the 80/20 rule. Listen 80% of the time. COVID-19 has brought us to a hard stop here in some respects, but when you think about the frenetic pace of life that has only gotten faster and faster during our adult years, it has reached the point of sheer lunacy. Was anyone listening to anybody? One of the reasons we are such a divided nation is we completely lost the ability to listen, and listen with respect. What I found in fundraising, and I think many professionals in other fields would say the same thing, if you want success in your life, in your business, in your endeavors, you listen. It wouldn’t be that I would listen 100% of the time. But what I found is people desperately wanted to be heard. They wanted to be listened to attentively, appreciatively, and respectfully. Honestly, when I think about to what extent I was a great fundraiser in my career, it’s because of the power of listening. I have to ask for money, too. But listening puts us in that best position to understand.
 What I would do is retain, record, and retrieve. Three R’s. Retain. Somebody had something to say during the course of the conversation. I was listening closely and thinking, That’s important.
 Record. I would get in the car, call my assistant, and tell them, “Start taking notes.” Or I’d get back to the office and start typing at my computer. I would record all the various things I thought would be insightful and helpful, not just for me, but for anyone in my organization who would have reason to engage with those people.
 This is all about preparation. When I would prepare for my next visit, I would retrieve. The thing is in work like this, we are in front of different wonderful people each day. If a month has passed, there is no guarantee I would remember what someone said was important to them a month ago. One way I would respect them is I would retain, record, and retrieve, so that when I would return to them, I could say, “Hugh, so how’s Mary Alice doing? You were talking about her facing that surgery.” Or, “Hugh, how’s that billy goat dog of yours doing? You were worried about this.” Or, “Hugh, you said you were going to be marrying off your son Charlie. How’d it go?” People know I am representing the organization, but they love the fact that I listened to them as people. I cared about them as people. Do you think when it came to talking about a gift eventually, that put me in a better position to be taken seriously? Without question.
 It seems like, Geez, this is common sense, isn’t it? We have lost a lot of common sense.
 Hugh: The problem with common sense is it’s not very common.
 *Sponsored by EZCard*
 Let’s pivot. You talked about some brilliant reframing of some old scripts we tell ourselves that minimize ourselves. I am guilty as anybody else, maybe more. That’s not my job. I teach leadership.
 We have been in an era of lockdown. We are going back to work in Virginia. Churches are a sort of meeting with very limited engagement. No children. No singing. There is a new paradigm of how the exercise classes are in the parking lot with rain all week. People are getting paychecks from unemployment. What if that money runs out? Then what? We are facing some new challenges. How does that impact fundraising going forward?
 Martin: If you look back to the great recession, some sectors did better than other sectors in terms of fundraising. In the great recession, I had just come to the University of Missouri to take a campaign that was already underway public. I was there a month, and the economic sky fell. The world was thrown in the craziness. It doesn’t exactly line up with our situation today, but there are some similarities certainly. Long story short, we decided to go ahead with our campaign. In my first year there, we raised 54% more than any other year in the history of that institution. When I hear someone say, “Boy, we can’t ask for money now. People don’t have it,” I immediately say, “That’s not necessarily true.”
 One thing I would say is this: If somebody is philanthropic, and they have less money, are they less philanthropic? I don’t think so. Philanthropy is a part of a value system. Let me ask you this about the organization you represent. Has its value proposition changed because of this pandemic? No, it hasn’t. Now, if you are a food bank, there might be more urgency, immediacy. Crises bring out people’s desire to try to do something for others, whether it’s by cutting a check or by cheering on the streets for the first responders and nurses. People want to be supportive. One way they are supportive is certainly with their philanthropic support.
 Hugh: Love it. Would you like to have some questions from our audience?
 Martin: As long as they’re all soft balls.
 Hugh: No guarantees. There’s Jeffrey Fulgham from Richmond, Virginia. He is a CFRE and has done many good things. Used to be in Lynchburg, but moved just a couple hours away. Do you have a particular observation or question for our guest today?
 Jeffrey Fulgham: I don’t really have a question, but I love what I’m hearing, Martin. The first thing when I came on (I missed the very beginning) is the part you were talking about studying, and that’s only part of the equation. You can glean all this information, but if you started moving through your presentation, you were talking about relationships, which has always been the meat of this business. It’s never more important than it is right now of letting folks know we care about them, and you hit that nail right on the head. That’s what I have been preaching to my clients and associates: how important it is to stay connected to people and let them know that this relationship is a personal relationship before a financial relationship.
 I really liked what you said about character because I think that’s the core of what we’re doing. It’s the core of leadership. If you don’t have the character, you probably shouldn’t be a fundraiser or in leadership either.
 The other thing that you mentioned about evaluating, that was so good. I didn’t start doing it early enough. I wish I had done it the way you did it. The last five years, I have taken the month of December, or January because we are so darn busy in December that we don’t have the time. I did a post-mortem on the year and on my life. How could I be better? This is great stuff. I’m glad I connected today.
 Martin: Jeffrey, pleased to meet you, and thanks for your great comments. I’m glad I’m in the ballpark with mine. One of the things, in fact, I just did a podcast on this, writing a chapter on someone’s book on morning rituals. Every morning, as part of my morning ritual, I have one page in my personal/professional planner (I call it that), and I review what matters most about my life. That is a way for me to get locked and loaded for the day, in order to go forth and have the greatest impact possible, as a professional, but as a person. What am I all about as a person? Being able to define that, have it clarified, reviewing it every day has been amazingly powerful.
 One other thing I would say around the word “authenticity” is people want to be authentic, and they want authentic people in front of them. We don’t have to be perfect in our work, but we want to be respectful, thoughtful, and do it the best way we can. Fundraisers come in all shapes, sizes, and abilities, and they understand that. But they don’t want a fake, a snake salesman. They want a human being that they can respect and look up to. That’s what they want from us.
 Jeffrey: I definitely agree with that. That authenticity and character and genuineness, people would ask me about having these relationships with people. I said, “You have to be in a genuine relationship. You can’t have a relationship where you want someone to think that it’s about the fact that you like them and want to be in a relationship, but it’s really about the money, so you are clocking it so that it looks genuine. It might work for a little while, but it won’t work for you forever. If you really want to have successful fundraising, it’s about long-term relationships with people.” I’m fortunate that I am connected to people who I am three or four organizations removed from now. I still have relationships with them, and I still talk to them, especially right now with everything going on. Staying in touch. That’s the fun part of this business. It’s the most fun.
 Martin: The relationships is the most gratifying part of the deal. It’s not about the dollars raised although that’s great, too, because it can accomplish great things. In our business, we get to meet the most wonderful people. Phenomenal people. When I think about my own personal and professional development, a lot of it was profoundly stimulated by the people I have gotten to spend time with in this work of fundraising.
 Hugh: And I have gotten to spend time with Jeffrey and Bob Hopkins. Bob, you’ve been quietly listening. Do you have a question or comment for our guest today?
 Bob Hopkins: I’m in my backyard outside. Didn’t know I had any airwaves back here. Beautiful day in Dallas by the way. I am loving listening to you. After 40 years of doing this kind of thing, you think you know it all. While I might say I do, it’s so much fun to remember some of the key aspects of the fundraising process. When you first started talking, I thought, Why doesn’t he talk about listening? Sure enough, 15 minutes later, you talked about listening. I am so grateful for that conversation. I teach speech, and I’m teaching people how to talk. But there is a chapter in my book called “Listening.” I spend about five minutes on listening because I don’t think people need to know anything about it, and I am so wrong. As you said, the 80/20 thing is so true. I have so many great stories of when I didn’t listen, and you know what? I didn’t get the gift. Or when I listened and waited and patiently took my time about receiving, that I got about six times more money than I would have gotten had I asked earlier when the person wasn’t ready.
 Martin: It’s such a great comment. Pleased to meet you. We talk about this in a lot of fields, the blending of art and science. As I said, developing competency is about education and experience. Maybe that’s the better way. This is a work you learn on the job; it’s on the job training. As we stick with it, it saddens me when I think about the turnover in the profession. If something is willing to stick with it and keep at it, as you all know, the satisfaction is phenomenal to be in this work. To become competent at it over time is immensely gratifying. Beautiful horse by the way, Bob.
 Hugh: That’s not his current one. He has one he is really proud of. That’s his passion. One day, I was having lunch with him in Dallas, and he went off on this horse thing when I asked him about his passion.
 The principle is 80/20. 80% of your results are produced by 20% of your people. 80% of your inventory only produces 20% of your profits, but 20% produces 80% of your profits. It goes with donors; it’s a repeated principle. When I wrote my first book, Moving Spirits, Building Lives, it’s about church musicians and transformational leaders. That is when I moved into leadership. It took me 40 years to write this and 30 days to put it on paper when I was leaving the profession. I determined in that book the Ballou 10/90 principle. As a music director, 10% of my job was music; 90% made that possible. I am thinking as far as a professional fundraiser, the 10% is what people see, but 90% is under the iceberg. 90% is relationship, staying in touch, that allows that 10% to happen. There is a lot that happens that is invisible to most people, but that is where the hard lifting is.
 Let’s hit real hard on this. We still have money in the economy. The fed printed more digital currency. Money didn’t go away. Some people are struggling to make ends meet, but some companies are doing really well. Google had a record-breaking quarter. Grocery stores are slammed. There are some ministries that are challenged. Some restaurants are out of business. There is still money out there and people who want to make a difference. What is the change of mindset for addressing the new normal here?
 Martin: In some ways, the mindset hasn’t changed. In other words, we have an organization worthy of support that is doing important work in this world. We are engaging with people who want to make a difference with their lives and resources to the extent that they can. They may have taken a hit financially, so they may not be able to do something right now. They may have to structure it differently. Back in the great recession, we mentioned we raised 54% more than any other prior year in the institution’s history, that wasn’t people writing a bunch of huge checks. People were writing smaller checks, making pledges over longer periods of time, putting gifts in their estates, and so on. Bundle it all together, and it would be a number that was not insignificant for them, but they couldn’t do it. Even today, a year ago, someone might give you a large number with checks over a couple of years. Now, they still want to give you that number, but it will be put together in a different kind of package.
 What we need to do is be sensitive to people. We are all talking the same talk here. We have to put the concern for the people first. There are relationships. If we treat them that way, whether they can make a gift now or later, we are building the relationship for the long term. We are doing our job with the relationship by putting them and their concerns first. We all have stories and connections, a degree or two away from us, of people who have been profoundly impacted by this. We should know it firsthand, and be sensitive as we engage with others.
 To raise major gifts, it’s typically a face-to-face, labor-intensive business. Up until very recently, there hasn’t been any face-to-face work. Difficult to have a talk with a donor ten feet apart. Tools like Zoom, even my sister who just turned 80 years old knows how to use Zoom. We can all use Zoom. People welcome Zoom calls or the equivalent. They desire that human interaction. If we get on a call like this, we just have a conversation, and we listen to them, that’s powerful.
 Hugh: whoever thought of this term “social distancing,” it’s physical distancing. We are still social. Anti-social distancing. This book is chock-full of stuff that is not rocket science. It’s a solid experience when people have been there and done it. Stuff that most of us don’t know. You have been around and done this for years; you’ve practiced this. I’m a musician. We rehearse. You have rehearsed a lot. What I am so appreciative of is you put it in a book to share with people. Why should people have this book? Where can they get it?
 Martin: Why they should get it is it’s a way of staying current in the work. If you are a beginner, it’s an insightful introduction to the work. It’s getting 27 seasoned professionals’ input, not just one’s. I call it Five Minutes for Fundraisingbecause each chapter is about a five-minute read. They are stand-alone chapters. You don’t have to read it in consecutively. You can go to what resonates or what you need right now.
 In terms of the book, if you want an autographed one, 15% off, no shipping and handling, go to MartinLeifeld.com and order it there. You can get it on Amazon as well. Like any book, it’s available on multiple channels.
 Hugh: It’s not an expensive book.
 *Sponsored by EZCard* *Message about a Youth Philanthropy Conference on 6/27*
 This has been a very helpful interview. Lots of good sound bites. What do you want to leave people with today? What is a challenge or thought as we go into the unknown?
 Martin: Every day we are going into the unknown. That was six months ago, too. It’s new every morning, as it says in the Book of Lamentations, for those of you who look at the Bible. What we’re after is helping people become greater through philanthropy. We’re doing that through putting them first, respecting who they are, helping them to demonstrate their value system to the world. Hopefully, by working with our organization as part of their way of doing so. We are privileged. It’s honorable work. It’s worth people devoting their lives to.
 Not to highlight myself, but this is powerful. When I retired two years ago, they had a party for me, which was very nice. A number of the donors were there who I had worked with for years. Unbeknownst to me, they had a video. If you go to YouTube, it’s there. This couple who were the first alumni in this young university to reach a $5 million-level gift of cumulative giving was on the video. This is what they said, and I think it pulls it together and certainly represents so much my gratitude for the work of philanthropy in my life. They said, “By teaching us about giving, Martin, you have given us a great gift. Our philanthropic involvement with the university has enhanced our lives on many levels. We owe that to you. Martin, because of your professionalism, expertise, and friendship, you made something that is truly enjoyable even more rewarding. You showed us the way to contribute in a meaningful manner, and this resulted in our receiving so much in return.”
 Hugh: What a great summary.
 Martin: Isn’t that amazing? That’s what it’s about.
 Hugh: It is amazing. You have touched people’s lives on both ends of the spectrum. Martin, thank you for sharing your wisdom and time with us today.
 Martin: Thank you.
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Nonprofit Fundraising in our COVID-19 World with Martin Leifeld</strong></h1> <p><strong>Martin Leifeld</strong>, author, coach, consultant, and public speaker directed the raising of over $500 million dollars during his 24 years of fundraising leadership in the St. Louis region. Martin authored the book, FIVE MINUTES FOR FUNDRAISING - A Collection of Expert Advice from Gifted Fundraisers. MartinLeifeld.com provides nearly 125 video presentations about leadership and fundraising matters.</p> <p>Martin served as vice chancellor for university advancement at UMSL for 10 years. He led a dramatic increase in fundraising, averaging $26.4 million per year. University Advancement had 140 employees and a $16 million budget focusing upon alumni engagement, community relations, fundraising, marketing and communication, university events, and St. Louis Public Radio. <a href="http://http//www.martinleifeld.com"></a></p> <p>Previously, Martin was associate vice president for university development at Saint Louis University and director of development for the Diocese of Belleville, Ill.</p> <p>Martin was named the 2018 Outstanding Fundraising Executive by the AFP St. Louis Regional Chapter. Martin was selected as the 2020 Millard S. Cohen Lifetime Achievement Award from St. Louis Public Radio (KWMU).</p> <p> </p> Read the Interview <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings. This is Hugh Ballou. Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Every week, we have a guest who has knowledge and wisdom, and experience in a topic. They have been there and done it, and they have some things to share with you. You’re sitting in the seat as clergy, nonprofit leader, or board chair. Maybe you’re a business person thinking about launching a nonprofit. This series is here to help you think out of the box, think of some new paradigms, and learn from some people who are experienced.</p> <p>Today, my guest is from St. Louis, Missouri. He is the author of this book, <em>Five Minutes for Fundraising: A Collection of Expert Advice from Gifted Fundraisers.</em> Martin Leifeld, welcome. Would you tell people a little bit about yourself, and why is it that you do what you do?</p> <p><strong>Martin Leifeld:</strong> First of all, it’s an honor to be on your program today, and I appreciate your audience. I hope I can be helpful.</p> <p>I’ve been in various leadership roles for around 45 years. 25 years of those were in small and larger universities. 25 years, although they didn’t overlap exactly with the universities, I have been involved in fundraising. About two years ago, I retired after 10 years as vice chancellor for advancement at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, which is our local urban land grant university here in St. Louis. I had a wonderful run there.</p> <p>Long story short, here in the St. Louis region, which is where I spent my 25 years of fundraising, over $500 million raised, that’s a lot of money for St. Louis. It’s not about the dollars raised; it’s about the involvement, the lives changed, and the impact because of the dollars raised. Two years ago, I retired. It wasn’t my timing, to be honest with you. I had health issues. My handle in the last couple of years has been author, coach, consultant, and speaker. A little bit of everything. I think you know what I mean. I have a website, MartinLeifeld.com. There are over 120 videos there on fundraising and leadership. You were kind enough to point out the book. I have been doing podcasts, a couple dozen of them, and regular postings, particularly on LinkedIn.</p> <p>I am trying to give back. This is all about trying to give back to a profession that has been such a blessing for me, so good for me in so many respects. Certainly developed professional skills. I have grown as a person by doing this extraordinary work of fundraising.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have in the audience two fundraisers who are CFRE. They’re here because they heard about you. We’ll let them ask questions later.</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> I’m beginning to sweat, Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> They’re very nice people.</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> I hope so.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I had a funding professional last month. He said he reads a fundraising book a week. My area is transformational leadership and the conductor. The best leaders I worked with in corporate or nonprofits are the people who are always working on themselves. The famous speaker Jim Rohn always said, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.” I wrote that down and have been working on it ever since. 73, and still working.</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> I’m impressed by somebody who would read a book weekly. There is a chapter in the book called, “The Three C’s of Fundraising.” The first is competence. If you want to be involved in fundraising, being somebody of impact who makes a difference, you have to develop competency. There are two ways to do that.</p> <p>One is lifelong learning. You are a student of the game, of the practice. That can include certifications and the like. You mentioned CFRE, which makes me nervous. You go to webinars like this, podcasts, so on and so forth, to remain educated and current in the field. But book-learning alone doesn’t make you an impactful person in the work of philanthropy. You have to add to that experience. In any profession, if you’re working diligently and are learning, being humble as you work your way through successes and failures, you should acquire the kind of experience that makes that study you do come to life and be most virtuous. That’s just competence.</p> <p>You have to have confidence. Confidence is not bravado. It’s not fake it until you make it. Real confidence grows alongside the development of competence.</p> <p>But to get to your point, the third C is character. What donors want is someone who is competent. They want to recognize a competent professional who is doing their work with excellence and to have that quiet confidence that comes over the course of time. But what they are really looking for is people with outstanding character, people who are virtuous and trustworthy, people who you might say they know they can do business with. They can shake hands and make something happen.</p> <p>If you don’t have all three operating, I don’t think you can be a master in any profession.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. I have earmarked a few things. I want to talk to you about the correlation between leadership and fundraising. Did you just sit down and say, “I want to write a book?” What was the inspiration, and how did you connect with the people in there, who are all experienced fundraising professionals?</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> You might find this story curious. Since I turned 30, every consecutive decade since, on the 9th, the 29th, the 39th, etc., I would use that year very deliberately to reflect on my life up to that point, trying to look at success and failure, places for improvement. To look at the next 10 years and try to project what I can do to have an impact. I should say every decade, I got more intense about this, too.</p> <p>Six years ago, when I was 59, I was really working through that year. I decided in that spring to take 100 days and really drill down about the future. Every day in my journal, Day 1/100, Day 15/100, I began my journal. Journaling is part of my morning ritual. Seeking ahead, you might say. Believe it or not, around day 72/73/75, I have what I call a small I, inspiration. The inspiration, as I referred, was to give back to the profession. I wanted to start there.</p> <p>I thought, Well, I had done so much mentoring and coaching and fundraising with staff and volunteers. I was very good at doing something briefly. Somebody asked a question, as you can tell, I can go on for five minutes. Five minutes, I can give a good answer that would be appreciated. Maybe I could do some brief videos. Then I thought, Well, not everyone wants to watch a video, let alone look at me for a few minutes. People prefer to read. Let me do both.</p> <p>So the genesis of the book logistically was transcribing my first year and a half of videos on these very subjects. Hugh, you may know this, and your audience may also. Seven minutes of video, especially the speed at which I talk, only translates to a few pages. I got into this and thought, I am not going to have a book. The other part of this was I never tried to give a comprehensive answer about something. It was more stuff I noodled about, experimented with, discovered that I thought was helpful.</p> <p>That is what prompted me to go out and recruit 26 others to join me as collaborators in this. It was a fun experience because maybe 60% of them I knew, some very well, but the others I went out and recruited based on word of mouth and reference. I had to establish a relationship with them, like a donor, and ask them for their assistance. I found overwhelming willingness to be supportive.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. 26 of them here, all by name. Each chapter says, “Collaboration.” Speak a little bit about how collaboration works for you, and how it manifested itself in the book. It’s interesting how you have each section with dots and italics to stand apart, where there is a dialogue.</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> What I was trying to do was say something about the particular subjects, insight and angle. I had come to realize through experience and effort and training. Then I wanted to enrich it. I tried to find people. I called them collaborators. In other words, I wanted to start with what I had to say about a particular subject and ask them to add to it. Nobody really directly contradicted me as a collaborator. But they collaborated in the sense that they took the content seriously and enhanced it with their own reflections. Many of them added stories that put the flesh on the bones of the point of the chapter. It was interesting. If I had asked people to write it, they wouldn’t have written it because they were too busy. I had somebody help me interview them. We came to it in different ways based on the needs and availability and interest of my collaborators. I tried to collaborate logistically and practically in order to have them help, but they were generous about their time.</p> <p>The thing about this word “collaboration” is the goal is a joint thing we do together. The goal is to bring the best of more than one person to bear in order to, as you talk about with synergy with your organization, to get that synergistic gain, to get that exponential gain that you can’t get with just yourself necessarily. Even if you have the authority with CFRE.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> People introduce me sometimes as Hugh Ballou, an expert in leadership. I say, “I’m Hugh Ballou, a serious student of leadership.”</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> Hear, hear.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The title of this episode is, “Fundraising in COVID-19.” And the post-COVID-19 world. There are some consistent things and some new thoughts. That chapter with leadership, the Three C’s, your collaborator said, “ABC: Authenticity, belief, and confidence.” You and I were talking before about how fundraising is terrifying for a lot of us. I don’t want to go. It’s like when I was a teenager calling a girl for a date. I didn’t want to get turned down, so I stood by the phone and sweat. Is that like people wanting to make a money call? What is it about trying to raise money that is so fearful?</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> I don’t know. It’s all about fear. It’s the fear of the unknown. It’s the fear of being rejected. The fear of fumbling your way through it. The fear of someone being rude to you. If you will be embarrassed in front of them or embarrass them. It’s something new. I haven’t done it before. For those in religious work, it’s unseemly. I shouldn’t have to do that kind of thing as a pastor. Leave that to someone else to do. There is a lot of things.</p> <p>When I first got into major gift fundraising, in the St. Louis area, I would criss-cross southern Illinois, a larger rural area, sometimes driving an hour or an hour and a half to see someone. Talk about sweating bullets. I would rehearse half the trip, “Hugh, would you and Mary consider a gift for the education of poor elementary kids, a gift of $10,000? You could even pay that over three years.” I would say that over and over again because I couldn’t trust myself. When I first began to do it, and I fumbled, it was a long drive back, knowing I hadn’t done what I set out to do. I began to rehearse very seriously. Once I got in the home or the office, who knows what might happen? It might be something I couldn’t predict. All I had to do was say, “Hugh and Mary,” and out would come the rest because I had rehearsed it. For those of you being called upon to raise money, practice makes perfect. You can do it.</p> <p>But let me shift into something more serious. Fundraising is a privilege. Fundraising is the most honorable of work. Fundraising is a spiritual work. Fundraising is actually a vocation. I came to this once I was talking to a very wise woman about fundraising and the struggles. She said, ‘Martin, you’re in a helping profession.” A helping profession? I had never thought of it that way. I thought, Especially now, physicians, nurses, first responders, educators, oh my gosh, the young families. Two of my kids are educating kids at home. They have a manifold of appreciation of what it takes to be an educator now that they are trying to do that in their living rooms and around the kitchen table.</p> <p>But I hadn’t thought of my profession of being something that was actually about helping. That’s what it is. What we do as fundraisers are facilitators in effect. I like to refer to myself as a facilitator of philanthropy. What we do is on behalf of worthy causes. In effect, what we want to do is come alongside, almost put our arm around someone’s shoulder, and say, “Look, there is an opportunity that makes sense to you as I have gotten to know you, and through which you can demonstrate great impact on this world. Here is the idea. Would you consider it?” That kind of work is very powerful and honorable work.</p> <p>I have had the privilege, as many of your audience have had, of interacting with some people of extraordinary success, Fortune 25 executives. I have had some of those people say to me, “Martin, I could never do that job. That is too hard a job.” Some of them knew it first-hand because they were chairmen of nonprofits or board members. They were called upon to go out and do it. They knew first-hand what I was doing full-time. They respected it. We underestimate the value, the contribution we are making in this work.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. That’s a paradigm shift. Somewhere, and it may be in this chapter, “Five Generous Fundraisers,” before we talk more about donors, let’s consider you as the fundraiser. Somewhere, you talk about the impact it has on donors to actually donate. There is a point of philanthropy that releases something in you to make that donation, to see something happen. Talk about that. That is an inspiration that we don’t think about, the impact that it has on the donor.</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> First of all, it’s all about the donor. What we tend to do is focus on ourselves. In one sense, we should because we want to be professional and effective and do the job with excellence. We also want to represent our organizations with integrity, as effectively as we can. It’s all about the donor. What we’re into is a business of building lifelong relationships, not just after a transaction. We want to build and support the relationship that the donor has with the organization for their lifetime hopefully. In that relationship-building process, there are opportunities for financial exchange. What this is about is not a transaction although writing a check or giving away stock or a document with a commitment is part of it. But what it’s really about is helping people to influence the world for the better, and to demonstrate their values and what matters most to them.</p> <p>In that process of a donor taking their eyes off of themselves and looking outward, looking at, “Okay, I have been fortunate enough to have accrued these assets,” rather than being preoccupied with how I could take care of myself, I am going to give it to others or to the world to improve it. As they do that, they become greater people. Biochemically, by the way, we change. Enzymes are released. One person called it the family bonding enzyme. I used to notice that somebody would make a big gift to one of my organizations and suddenly they would be everywhere. They would be at every event, bringing friends and colleagues, talking about the organization with great enthusiasm. What’s this all about? By their making a serious commitment, a gift of greater significance, there was something that happened within their entire being. A wise man, as you know, once said, “It’s better to give than to receive.” There is something we receive as an internal, spiritual, reward by giving of ourselves generously. One of the ways we give ourselves generously, certainly in this contemporary age, is with financial resources in addition to our time and talents.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s so good. The other thing I earmarked is you wrote this chapter about the donor development cycle. There is a transaction, and there are those who never ask for the sale. I have been there many times. One higher net worth person asked me, “You didn’t ask for the sale.” It was my first conversation to get acquainted. But he was a businessman, “What do you want?” Another one, I am packing up to leave after I told him about what I was doing. He said, “Don’t you want a check?” Then he wrote me a check and handed one to me a lot bigger than I thought. That was about relationships.</p> <p>But this cycle, you go through steps, identification, qualification, and more. Talk about the process. There is a transaction, but there is a lot more to this process.</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> The bottom line is this is about a relationship. In the course of a relationship, you go through seasons. In this particular cycle that we use in our fundraising business, you identify. Then qualify, which means are these people of capacity? Are these people who have an interest or potential interest in what we represent?</p> <p>Then we cultivate, which is about building a relationship and involving them in the organization. That can include charitable giving, but not a gift of greater significance. As we get to know them, we are able to think about, Okay, given what they are interested in, how does that align with what we are about as an organization? What dimensions of our organization would be something that would make sense to them, that they would desire to support?</p> <p>Then we have the conversation about asking. Some people are proponents of never asking for money. They just listen their way to a gift. I have always believed to have conversations about money, about scale, about impact, about size. That might be, with this amount, you can do this and that. Provide some options. But I always want to be working with numbers. People want to know what we would like them to do. My experience has been perhaps more often the opposite of yours. If I don’t ask, I get something smaller than what I had hoped for. I have always been one to say, “Let’s talk about money.” It’s a part of life. It’s how we carry on in this world. Most people want to get to the bottom line, “How much do you want?” They can say yes, no, maybe so. They want to make that happen, but they can’t make that happen now, or they will have to think more creatively about it. They can’t write a check.</p> <p>I have always taught our people the 80/20 rule. Listen 80% of the time. COVID-19 has brought us to a hard stop here in some respects, but when you think about the frenetic pace of life that has only gotten faster and faster during our adult years, it has reached the point of sheer lunacy. Was anyone listening to anybody? One of the reasons we are such a divided nation is we completely lost the ability to listen, and listen with respect. What I found in fundraising, and I think many professionals in other fields would say the same thing, if you want success in your life, in your business, in your endeavors, you listen. It wouldn’t be that I would listen 100% of the time. But what I found is people desperately wanted to be heard. They wanted to be listened to attentively, appreciatively, and respectfully. Honestly, when I think about to what extent I was a great fundraiser in my career, it’s because of the power of listening. I have to ask for money, too. But listening puts us in that best position to understand.</p> <p>What I would do is retain, record, and retrieve. Three R’s. Retain. Somebody had something to say during the course of the conversation. I was listening closely and thinking, That’s important.</p> <p>Record. I would get in the car, call my assistant, and tell them, “Start taking notes.” Or I’d get back to the office and start typing at my computer. I would record all the various things I thought would be insightful and helpful, not just for me, but for anyone in my organization who would have reason to engage with those people.</p> <p>This is all about preparation. When I would prepare for my next visit, I would retrieve. The thing is in work like this, we are in front of different wonderful people each day. If a month has passed, there is no guarantee I would remember what someone said was important to them a month ago. One way I would respect them is I would retain, record, and retrieve, so that when I would return to them, I could say, “Hugh, so how’s Mary Alice doing? You were talking about her facing that surgery.” Or, “Hugh, how’s that billy goat dog of yours doing? You were worried about this.” Or, “Hugh, you said you were going to be marrying off your son Charlie. How’d it go?” People know I am representing the organization, but they love the fact that I listened to them as people. I cared about them as people. Do you think when it came to talking about a gift eventually, that put me in a better position to be taken seriously? Without question.</p> <p>It seems like, Geez, this is common sense, isn’t it? We have lost a lot of common sense.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The problem with common sense is it’s not very common.</p> <p>*Sponsored by EZCard*</p> <p>Let’s pivot. You talked about some brilliant reframing of some old scripts we tell ourselves that minimize ourselves. I am guilty as anybody else, maybe more. That’s not my job. I teach leadership.</p> <p>We have been in an era of lockdown. We are going back to work in Virginia. Churches are a sort of meeting with very limited engagement. No children. No singing. There is a new paradigm of how the exercise classes are in the parking lot with rain all week. People are getting paychecks from unemployment. What if that money runs out? Then what? We are facing some new challenges. How does that impact fundraising going forward?</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> If you look back to the great recession, some sectors did better than other sectors in terms of fundraising. In the great recession, I had just come to the University of Missouri to take a campaign that was already underway public. I was there a month, and the economic sky fell. The world was thrown in the craziness. It doesn’t exactly line up with our situation today, but there are some similarities certainly. Long story short, we decided to go ahead with our campaign. In my first year there, we raised 54% more than any other year in the history of that institution. When I hear someone say, “Boy, we can’t ask for money now. People don’t have it,” I immediately say, “That’s not necessarily true.”</p> <p>One thing I would say is this: If somebody is philanthropic, and they have less money, are they less philanthropic? I don’t think so. Philanthropy is a part of a value system. Let me ask you this about the organization you represent. Has its value proposition changed because of this pandemic? No, it hasn’t. Now, if you are a food bank, there might be more urgency, immediacy. Crises bring out people’s desire to try to do something for others, whether it’s by cutting a check or by cheering on the streets for the first responders and nurses. People want to be supportive. One way they are supportive is certainly with their philanthropic support.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. Would you like to have some questions from our audience?</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> As long as they’re all soft balls.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> No guarantees. There’s Jeffrey Fulgham from Richmond, Virginia. He is a CFRE and has done many good things. Used to be in Lynchburg, but moved just a couple hours away. Do you have a particular observation or question for our guest today?</p> <p><strong>Jeffrey Fulgham:</strong> I don’t really have a question, but I love what I’m hearing, Martin. The first thing when I came on (I missed the very beginning) is the part you were talking about studying, and that’s only part of the equation. You can glean all this information, but if you started moving through your presentation, you were talking about relationships, which has always been the meat of this business. It’s never more important than it is right now of letting folks know we care about them, and you hit that nail right on the head. That’s what I have been preaching to my clients and associates: how important it is to stay connected to people and let them know that this relationship is a personal relationship before a financial relationship.</p> <p>I really liked what you said about character because I think that’s the core of what we’re doing. It’s the core of leadership. If you don’t have the character, you probably shouldn’t be a fundraiser or in leadership either.</p> <p>The other thing that you mentioned about evaluating, that was so good. I didn’t start doing it early enough. I wish I had done it the way you did it. The last five years, I have taken the month of December, or January because we are so darn busy in December that we don’t have the time. I did a post-mortem on the year and on my life. How could I be better? This is great stuff. I’m glad I connected today.</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> Jeffrey, pleased to meet you, and thanks for your great comments. I’m glad I’m in the ballpark with mine. One of the things, in fact, I just did a podcast on this, writing a chapter on someone’s book on morning rituals. Every morning, as part of my morning ritual, I have one page in my personal/professional planner (I call it that), and I review what matters most about my life. That is a way for me to get locked and loaded for the day, in order to go forth and have the greatest impact possible, as a professional, but as a person. What am I all about as a person? Being able to define that, have it clarified, reviewing it every day has been amazingly powerful.</p> <p>One other thing I would say around the word “authenticity” is people want to be authentic, and they want authentic people in front of them. We don’t have to be perfect in our work, but we want to be respectful, thoughtful, and do it the best way we can. Fundraisers come in all shapes, sizes, and abilities, and they understand that. But they don’t want a fake, a snake salesman. They want a human being that they can respect and look up to. That’s what they want from us.</p> <p><strong>Jeffrey:</strong> I definitely agree with that. That authenticity and character and genuineness, people would ask me about having these relationships with people. I said, “You have to be in a genuine relationship. You can’t have a relationship where you want someone to think that it’s about the fact that you like them and want to be in a relationship, but it’s really about the money, so you are clocking it so that it looks genuine. It might work for a little while, but it won’t work for you forever. If you really want to have successful fundraising, it’s about long-term relationships with people.” I’m fortunate that I am connected to people who I am three or four organizations removed from now. I still have relationships with them, and I still talk to them, especially right now with everything going on. Staying in touch. That’s the fun part of this business. It’s the most fun.</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> The relationships is the most gratifying part of the deal. It’s not about the dollars raised although that’s great, too, because it can accomplish great things. In our business, we get to meet the most wonderful people. Phenomenal people. When I think about my own personal and professional development, a lot of it was profoundly stimulated by the people I have gotten to spend time with in this work of fundraising.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And I have gotten to spend time with Jeffrey and Bob Hopkins. Bob, you’ve been quietly listening. Do you have a question or comment for our guest today?</p> <p><strong>Bob Hopkins:</strong> I’m in my backyard outside. Didn’t know I had any airwaves back here. Beautiful day in Dallas by the way. I am loving listening to you. After 40 years of doing this kind of thing, you think you know it all. While I might say I do, it’s so much fun to remember some of the key aspects of the fundraising process. When you first started talking, I thought, Why doesn’t he talk about listening? Sure enough, 15 minutes later, you talked about listening. I am so grateful for that conversation. I teach speech, and I’m teaching people how to talk. But there is a chapter in my book called “Listening.” I spend about five minutes on listening because I don’t think people need to know anything about it, and I am so wrong. As you said, the 80/20 thing is so true. I have so many great stories of when I didn’t listen, and you know what? I didn’t get the gift. Or when I listened and waited and patiently took my time about receiving, that I got about six times more money than I would have gotten had I asked earlier when the person wasn’t ready.</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> It’s such a great comment. Pleased to meet you. We talk about this in a lot of fields, the blending of art and science. As I said, developing competency is about education and experience. Maybe that’s the better way. This is a work you learn on the job; it’s on the job training. As we stick with it, it saddens me when I think about the turnover in the profession. If something is willing to stick with it and keep at it, as you all know, the satisfaction is phenomenal to be in this work. To become competent at it over time is immensely gratifying. Beautiful horse by the way, Bob.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s not his current one. He has one he is really proud of. That’s his passion. One day, I was having lunch with him in Dallas, and he went off on this horse thing when I asked him about his passion.</p> <p>The principle is 80/20. 80% of your results are produced by 20% of your people. 80% of your inventory only produces 20% of your profits, but 20% produces 80% of your profits. It goes with donors; it’s a repeated principle. When I wrote my first book, <em>Moving Spirits, Building Lives,</em> it’s about church musicians and transformational leaders. That is when I moved into leadership. It took me 40 years to write this and 30 days to put it on paper when I was leaving the profession. I determined in that book the Ballou 10/90 principle. As a music director, 10% of my job was music; 90% made that possible. I am thinking as far as a professional fundraiser, the 10% is what people see, but 90% is under the iceberg. 90% is relationship, staying in touch, that allows that 10% to happen. There is a lot that happens that is invisible to most people, but that is where the hard lifting is.</p> <p>Let’s hit real hard on this. We still have money in the economy. The fed printed more digital currency. Money didn’t go away. Some people are struggling to make ends meet, but some companies are doing really well. Google had a record-breaking quarter. Grocery stores are slammed. There are some ministries that are challenged. Some restaurants are out of business. There is still money out there and people who want to make a difference. What is the change of mindset for addressing the new normal here?</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> In some ways, the mindset hasn’t changed. In other words, we have an organization worthy of support that is doing important work in this world. We are engaging with people who want to make a difference with their lives and resources to the extent that they can. They may have taken a hit financially, so they may not be able to do something right now. They may have to structure it differently. Back in the great recession, we mentioned we raised 54% more than any other prior year in the institution’s history, that wasn’t people writing a bunch of huge checks. People were writing smaller checks, making pledges over longer periods of time, putting gifts in their estates, and so on. Bundle it all together, and it would be a number that was not insignificant for them, but they couldn’t do it. Even today, a year ago, someone might give you a large number with checks over a couple of years. Now, they still want to give you that number, but it will be put together in a different kind of package.</p> <p>What we need to do is be sensitive to people. We are all talking the same talk here. We have to put the concern for the people first. There are relationships. If we treat them that way, whether they can make a gift now or later, we are building the relationship for the long term. We are doing our job with the relationship by putting them and their concerns first. We all have stories and connections, a degree or two away from us, of people who have been profoundly impacted by this. We should know it firsthand, and be sensitive as we engage with others.</p> <p>To raise major gifts, it’s typically a face-to-face, labor-intensive business. Up until very recently, there hasn’t been any face-to-face work. Difficult to have a talk with a donor ten feet apart. Tools like Zoom, even my sister who just turned 80 years old knows how to use Zoom. We can all use Zoom. People welcome Zoom calls or the equivalent. They desire that human interaction. If we get on a call like this, we just have a conversation, and we listen to them, that’s powerful.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> whoever thought of this term “social distancing,” it’s physical distancing. We are still social. Anti-social distancing. This book is chock-full of stuff that is not rocket science. It’s a solid experience when people have been there and done it. Stuff that most of us don’t know. You have been around and done this for years; you’ve practiced this. I’m a musician. We rehearse. You have rehearsed a lot. What I am so appreciative of is you put it in a book to share with people. Why should people have this book? Where can they get it?</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> Why they should get it is it’s a way of staying current in the work. If you are a beginner, it’s an insightful introduction to the work. It’s getting 27 seasoned professionals’ input, not just one’s. I call it <em>Five Minutes for Fundraising</em>because each chapter is about a five-minute read. They are stand-alone chapters. You don’t have to read it in consecutively. You can go to what resonates or what you need right now.</p> <p>In terms of the book, if you want an autographed one, 15% off, no shipping and handling, go to MartinLeifeld.com and order it there. You can get it on Amazon as well. Like any book, it’s available on multiple channels.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s not an expensive book.</p> <p>*Sponsored by EZCard* *Message about a Youth Philanthropy Conference on 6/27*</p> <p>This has been a very helpful interview. Lots of good sound bites. What do you want to leave people with today? What is a challenge or thought as we go into the unknown?</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> Every day we are going into the unknown. That was six months ago, too. It’s new every morning, as it says in the Book of Lamentations, for those of you who look at the Bible. What we’re after is helping people become greater through philanthropy. We’re doing that through putting them first, respecting who they are, helping them to demonstrate their value system to the world. Hopefully, by working with our organization as part of their way of doing so. We are privileged. It’s honorable work. It’s worth people devoting their lives to.</p> <p>Not to highlight myself, but this is powerful. When I retired two years ago, they had a party for me, which was very nice. A number of the donors were there who I had worked with for years. Unbeknownst to me, they had a video. If you go to YouTube, it’s there. This couple who were the first alumni in this young university to reach a $5 million-level gift of cumulative giving was on the video. This is what they said, and I think it pulls it together and certainly represents so much my gratitude for the work of philanthropy in my life. They said, “By teaching us about giving, Martin, you have given us a great gift. Our philanthropic involvement with the university has enhanced our lives on many levels. We owe that to you. Martin, because of your professionalism, expertise, and friendship, you made something that is truly enjoyable even more rewarding. You showed us the way to contribute in a meaningful manner, and this resulted in our receiving so much in return.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What a great summary.</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> Isn’t that amazing? That’s what it’s about.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It is amazing. You have touched people’s lives on both ends of the spectrum. Martin, thank you for sharing your wisdom and time with us today.</p> <p><strong>Martin:</strong> Thank you.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Shift Your Money Relationship with Chella Diaz</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/shift-your-money-relationship-with-chella-diaz</link>
      <description>Shift Your Money Relationship: Finding Your Money Leaks with Chella Diaz
 Chella Diaz knew at a very young age how to manage money, at 9 years old she would go to the Farmer’s market and knew the vendors that had the best product at the lowest price. She purchased her car at 17 and her first home at 23. Chella was married for 17 years and has two sons. For over 15 years, Chella has been on her spiritual journey.
 Chella has been hosting workshops to empower people to master their money skills. Her simple approach to creating a spending plan that will serve you today and for many years to come will allow you to reach your financial goals with joy and grace.
 Chella has worked with many coaches and mentors and created a program that meets each client where they are and provides them with the tools they need to unpack their emotional baggage around money.
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: It’s 2pm on the Eastern Coast time zone. We are hosting The Nonprofit Exchange yet again. Every week, it’s special. We have a guest who shares some really good stuff. We are talking about money today, but it will be different. It’s one of those things everyone talks about.
 *Sponsored by EZCard*
 My guest today is Chella Diaz. Long-time friend, but we finally connected, and I understand why she needed to be on this show and tell you things that she knows. Chella, tell people a little bit about yourself and why you’re doing this thing that you’re doing.
 Chella Diaz: It would be my pleasure. It’s an honor to be here. It’s all about timing. We have known each other for several years, and I’m glad we’re here. The timing is absolutely prefect.
 I have been good with money since I was nine. I was just one of those little interesting kids. I purchased my first car when I was 17 and my first house when I was 23. Before some of you start jumping, I have been speaking for a long time. My dad was a baker, and my mom was a housewife. Some of you may think I got lots of help. I did, but not financial. When I went to purchase my first house, I was short $1,600. My dad did lend me the money at that point in time, but up until then, it was just one of those things that made sense. I have two amazing boys, young men now.
 I spent many years in the corporate world. I was a real estate underwriter. Along with my being good with money, I got the opportunity to review over 20,000 real estate loans. I got to see this black and white stuff. This is me reviewing tax returns and seeing how the wealthy save their money and the folks that don’t have money. I saw a pattern.
 After my divorce, and after the company I worked for shut down, I knew that I didn’t want to go back to that. I knew there was something bigger I wanted to do. That was when I published my first book Money Bootcamp. My idea was to empower high school and college students. That was when my business idea began. The first business idea doesn’t always take off.
 Then I was asked to speak at various women’s groups. For me, that was when the light went on. Watching and teaching women not only how to manage money but also how to set themselves apart so they always have enough money to do what they want to do, and watching the lights go on. I do work with some men, but my main audience is women and high school students and college students.
 To me, I feel that this is my way of giving back. This is my mission. I get to have so much fun doing it. People always say, “Find something that you like, and you will never work a day in my life.” I feel very fortunate because that is what I am doing right now: having an amazing time.
 Hugh: Yeah, you gotta have fun. I am still doing what I do in my senior years and enjoying it more than ever before. There is a lot more to do and more to learn. My area is leadership and organizational development. It’s a big area. Money is another big area.
 We start out in the nonprofit world with this word “nonprofit.” We immediately set the tone that is negative. We have profitability. It’s not profit in the sense of a business where we look out for our shareholders and have this big salary for the top person. It’s a for-purpose enterprise, where we are doing charitable work, but watching money. We have this negative thing about money from the start.
 When we minimize things and we cut pennies, we are really hurting ourselves in terms of how we manage money. We’re in an era where women leaders are stepping up. This is a good time for you to talk about how women bring unique skills to the marketplace as entrepreneurs running a social enterprise or business. My wife is a clergy in the Methodist church. There are new opportunities for women to bring fresh perspectives and ideas.
 Let’s talk about how we see money. What are the biggest problems in how people think about money?
 Chella: I believe it goes back to when we are five years old, and we begin to hear, “We can’t afford it. You have to work hard for your money. Money does not grow on trees.” These are three of the most popular phrases I come across. When we think about that story we hear, how it travels and grows with us, so that we can’t afford it. Now we are here in a purpose, where we want to help people, but we are still having this, “I can’t afford it. You have to struggle for money.” That interferes with our mission and purpose. It prevents us from asking, going after, and showing up. Whether we are working on our passion project, it doesn’t matter. We tend not to show up for our business. We tend not to share. Most importantly, we do not ask for what we need.
 Hugh: In the case of nonprofits, we are sharing our vision and our mission and the impact that we’re having on people’s lives. In a way, we’re asking, but we’re inviting people to participate in that work. We start these habits. If I hear you right, we have been spoonfed these from the beginning. We were told things about leadership that don’t work, and we have been told things about money that don’t help us at all. What is the antidote to this?
 Chella: It’s going and identifying what that story was and connecting to how that is currently affecting your financial picture. It sounds simplistic, but every single one of my clients who has done this- Once you have identified and shed some light on this, then you are no longer subject to that story. It’s giving a voice.
 Hugh: Don’t give the voice to the story. It’s like we download software in our computer, but we have to learn how to use it correctly. We only use the templates.
 We have Ryad here from Algeria, part of Bob Hopkin’s class in Dallas. He has a special interest in inspiring young leaders to think about philanthropy in a new way. To be a philanthropist, we don’t need to be afraid of money. Philanthropy is not all about the money. We do make financial contributions. As we welcome new people into the Methodist church, we say to participate with your time, talent, and money. There is a triple invitation, but there is an opportunity for young people to understand.
 I had Ivan Misner on the show last week. The motto for BNI is Givers Gain. It’s a different mindset.
 How do we get an awareness of some of these negative things we have been taught? You are in who we have been taught. How do we have an awareness to gain a mindset?
 Chella: By simply beginning to write. As we are sitting here, I am a huge note-taker. As you are saying wisdoms, write down. Sit down for 10 minutes, for seven days, silent, and think about those money conversations you listened to. That will bring them up to awareness.
 Everybody has a conversation. There are a few of you out there who are not going to have it because adults do not talk about money. Go back. 10 minutes. Seven days. I would love to hear from you what your feedback is. These things, the minute you begin to give the mind a task, it will do it for you.
 But if you don’t remember, that is also very telling because that means as a little child, what stories did you make up about the fact that adults were not talking about money? That is also very powerful. You make up a story as a kid as to what that meant. I wish I was making this up.
 As an adult, it’s possible you are in a relationship, and you don’t talk about money. But you have this white elephant in the room that nobody is talking about. Not hearing a conversation is also incredibly telling. What did that little child make up as a story?
 Hugh: We know that we give energy to what we think about. If you think about debt, we are in a panic time. The media wants to scare us so that we read their newspaper or watch their show. We don’t need to buy into these narratives that have penalized us. Dan Pallotta has this keynote where he talks about the way we think about charity is dead wrong. Nonprofit is a good starting point. It’s a bad word; it’s a lie. But it’s the word we know. It’s a genre of operating. It’s a tax-exempt business.
 Part of the headline here is, “Money Leaks.” What do you mean? Do you carry it in a bucket, and it leaks out?
 Chella: I am going to make that a picture. As we go through life, and we get services, and we don’t realize that some of these, are we using them? The most traditional one would be a membership to the gym and we don’t use it. There are so many other things that we go out and purchase, and we don’t use. Those are the money leaks. Those are the ones.
 But also, how are you choosing to spend your money? This is the $100,000 question. If you are able to sit down and track your finances for 30 days, whether you go back and do it or start fresh from here moving forward, if you are able to track any time you spend over a dollar on a notepad or a Word document or an app, at the end of the four weeks, you are going to divide that list into how much you spend on wants and how much on needs. I prefer to do it every week, so it doesn’t seem like such an overwhelming task. For four weeks, how much did you spend on wants versus needs? At the end of the four weeks, you will find your money leaks.
 One of my favorite examples is a young lady was spending $750 a month for lunch. You don’t realize how much you’re spending. You go to the bank and get the money. You’re on automatic pilot. You don’t realize where the money is going. By taking the time to do this one task for four weeks, whether it’s lunch or dinner or snacks- One of my clients, $125 in snacks. He would stop at the corner store before getting to work to pick up snacks. $125 for snacks? Imagine what you could do with $125 a month extra.
 By doing this one task, you are going to find where your money leaks are. I don’t believe in giving up everything. After you find the money leaks, my lunch person, she decided to put away $500 toward a down payment of a house, but she still went out to lunch. She still had $250 to work with for lunch. You will find what other choices you can make with your money. How are you choosing to spend your money? That’s where the magic happens, folks.
 Hugh: You start buying a $5 latte every day. That adds up to a lot of money. That is a lot of money over the terms of a week, a year. You add all those wants up, not needs. You can get an app like Mint, which shows you every day where your money went. It’s free. Is something like that helpful?
 Chella: Absolutely. It’s doing the work for you. The only thing with some of those apps. If you are able to track everything, fabulous. Sometimes you may not be able to track stopping at the store and picking up flowers. When you pay with cash, that is where Mint may not be great. But it is a great start. I like Mint.
 Hugh: I try to do everything on a credit card. I don’t care what the interest rate is. A high interest rate encourages me to pay it off. To me, the interest rate, the higher the better. I can’t pay interest, so it encourages me to pay the thing off. My particular card gives me a summary by category in addition to the Mint, and it also gives me hotel points. I go to a lot of hotels I don’t pay any money for. There is a liability in a credit card where you just use credit without the cash to pay it at the end of the month. There is an accountability process here. If you are struggling to make ends meet, you have to be aware of your own spending. We go out and have drinks with friends, and we spend money. We don’t have to do all that. We can drink water and have a good time and have a wine at home. Pay for a bottle instead of one glass at a restaurant. Or give it up all together. How do you stay on track? Do you have an accountability partner idea? Maybe we encourage each other.
 Chella: Hugh just brought up a big idea. If you know anybody who has credit cards, ask them to add up three months’ worth of interest. How much did they pay in three months? When you see that, let’s say it’s $500 for three months. That is going to be $2,000 for the year. This is the game-changer. When you start thinking not only am I making the credit card company rich, but what could I be doing with $2,000 at the end of the year? Imagine what that looks like in your bank account. I find that when people do this task, they are able to go out and work maybe a little bit harder for the short term to pay off that debt, be it selling something or doing something extra so that money can flow into their account.
 The accountability is one of my favorite things to do. I still have two accountability partners. I suggest they cannot be a spouse or significant other. This is something you’re working on yourself first. Then you can come together. It’s not that you can’t tell them what you’re doing. Once upon a time, purchasing personal development courses was a weakness for me. Any time I saw it on TV or an event, any time I went to spend over $100, I needed to call my accountability partner and share that I wanted to buy this thing I could not live without. You tell each other what your goals are, what your weaknesses are, and then you call each other during that time. After I started talking about it, justifying why I needed to buy this, it was so silly. I really didn’t need it. An accountability partner helps you to stay on track on whatever financial goals you are. It helps you stay away from the shiny objects, and they are there to celebrate any time you achieve a milestone.
 Hugh: These are all good personal growth habits. I wanted you on the show because we all bring our good and bad habits into the workplace. Many of our audience has a vision for changing people’s lives through a nonprofit they founded; sometimes they run it, or they get other people to run it. We want to identify these because the personal problems become systemic problems and a problem for the organization.
 In the nonprofit world, we are required to have a board of directors, and they oversee the money part. The same issues that you just talked about do exist in organizations. I have seen organizations who are broke, but there is no discipline or system or accountability or awareness of living beyond our means. We don’t have the money coming in, but we have to do these programs because they are compelling. You have to take care of home first. How do leaders bring these shortcomings into the business? How does that hurt everybody?
 Chella: That’s why I think you have to start at home. Find your money leaks, fix them. Once you start to do that, what happens is you begin to see other opportunities, whether it’s the saving $500 a month. Other opportunities begin to present themselves. Debt creates overwhelm and stress. When you are stressed and have to think about how you make those payments, there is that “Another payment, I have to write out ten checks.” I know people don’t do that anymore. Automatic pay, whatever that is. I need to pay ten bills versus three bills. That takes stress. When you are able to get that under control at home, those skillsets will transfer to your organization.
 You are able to come up with different ideas for a fundraiser. You are able to share about your project to that person you haven’t thought about sharing. It opens up more space for you to be able to be more productive and bring in more money to your nonprofit, or what I call a passion project.
 Hugh: Your passion project. What is your passion project?
 Chella: My passion project is to do workshops for high school students and college students. It’s interesting because I hear a lot from them about how they don’t care about the money, but they want to make a difference. I say, “In order to make a difference, you need the money.”
 Hugh: Ryad, as a young person facing the life ahead, does this stimulate any questions for you, or do you want to comment on what you’re hearing?
 Ryad Benabdelkader: Yes. By the way, I like the use of the credit card. Where I live, it’s not used very much. People love cash. They never use a credit card. Starting with my family and my parents, they just use cash in Algeria. But I like the idea of the credit card because you have to think about how to use the money twice. You won’t just buy it with cash. Each time my parents are just spending, spending, spending. If it was with a credit card, it would be better, and they know where to spend the money. I love the idea of credit cards. I hope we will apply it one day.
 Hugh: You’re in Algeria.
 Ryad: Yes.
 Hugh: How do you pay for things? Physical cash or digital payments.
 Ryad: Physical cash.
 Hugh: I understand you were admitted to a college in France, so you will be going to France. How will this kind of information help you think about managing your expenses in college?
 Ryad: I love the idea of credit cards because like this, I will manage and optimize how and where to spend the money without carrying cash. I would just be buying this and this. With a credit card, I will only buy things I need with limits. Each time you see the card, you think about money.
 Hugh: Before I go to Professor Hopkins, let’s talk about philanthropy. In order to be a philanthropist, you want to manage your time because we give time and talent, but we also give money. Why do you think it’s important to manage our own finances? Why do you think it’s important to have our house in order to be a better philanthropist? I will give you some time to think about it. Bob, what kinds of questions do you have today?
 Bob Hopkins: Thank you very much. Unfortunately, I hate this topic. I hate this topic for me personally. I hate the words, “I can’t afford it.” In respect to you, I think your topic and what you tell the students is what they need because people need to manage money. I have never been able to do that unfortunately. Because of my elderly age, what you see on the horse is what I look like today. I am 50 years older than that person on that horse.
 I try to teach students to think positively instead of thinking, “I can’t have, and I don’t have.” I think that God gives us everything we need, and you just have to have a positive attitude about it. Unfortunately, I don’t manage money very well. For some reason, there always seems to be money when I need it. But I do understand, and it’s a good thing I don’t have children. I was thinking of you when you said, “What did I think of money when I was five years old?” I could always have what I needed. When I became an adult, my parents divorced, and I think one reason that happened is because of money. It’s not been one of my best topics.
 Hugh: Let me introduce you to my friend Chella. Bob is a colleague in Texas. Sandy, do you have any questions here?
 Sandy Birkenmaier: My parents didn’t have a whole lot of money when I was growing up. When I was 10, they bought their first brand new car. They had no credit whatsoever because they’d always paid cash for everything. I learned pretty early that it was important to have a credit record at least. My dad died when I was 13, and we had even less money. I never had money when I was growing up unless there was something special I needed to buy. I had to justify then why it was that I needed money. I raised my kids that you do need to establish a credit record, but you need to not be using a credit card unless you are able to pay that credit card off. I pretty much managed to do that through adulthood. There have been times where things have gotten rough, and the credit cards have stacked up, but I got them paid off as quickly as possible. I think I have a pretty good relationship with money.
 Hugh: Great. Sandy, thank you. Chella, that triggered a couple of interesting topics. Thank you for allowing me to have you comment. When you start an enterprise and apply for a credit card, they will check your personal credit. You are the founder of this and want to apply for a credit card. This is one area that is important for having your act together. Do you want to comment on that?
 Bob’s relationship with money, he’s a mover and shaker. He is an energy field. I am sure in his career with nonprofits, he has seen a challenge with money. It’s an attitude that comes from the top. Those are two areas for you to bounce off of.
 Chella: Actually, Hugh, you mentioned earlier. When it comes to money and credit, people think about it as a negative thing. But you are proof that that’s not the case. You are able to get things for free. It’s about learning how to use the system. I have a friend who got a 32-inch flat-screen TV for free. She was a business owner, and she charged a lot, and she paid a lot. She accumulated so many points. That’s the thing about credit cards. We can use them to our advantage. We can use them just like Sandy, thank you for sharing, and Bob. We are going to come back to you. But you can use these credit cards to your advantage. They don’t have to be the bad word. This is a tool you can use to get free stuff. I personally have gotten gift cards. You can give them away for gifts. It can definitely work to your advantage.
 Know that the magic is you only need three types of credit that is being reported. All you need is three lines in order to build a credit score.
 Hugh: Three lines? Three credit cards?
 Chella: It could be a credit card. A car loan. Anything that reports. It cannot be paying rent. That is not reported. Utility bills, those are not reported. Those do not count. Three, be it two credit cards, a car loan. Three of them in order to build credit. That’s it.
 Hugh: It’s all back to what you were talking about. It’s a matter of discipline or attitude and an awareness. I see a lot of people start a business or nonprofit, and they say, “We will make money and do these things.” How important is it to put a budget line item on there to mark our discipline for spending?
 Chella: I love that. I don’t like to use the b-word. The budget. If we start thinking about, “This is how I am creating a spending plan” instead. It sounds softer and not quite so rigid. But if you create a spending plan, then you have choice. You are spending this. This is how much we allocated for this and that. Create a spending plan, and stick to it. Sometimes, we want to do, and we want to serve. But if we don’t have the money coming in, it’s going to stop sooner or later. There is only so much you can do. Right now, I do know quite a few nonprofits where the money is just not coming in, and they may need to shut down.
 Hugh: It’s a challenge for the whole sector. Small businesses, churches, restaurants, nonprofits: we are challenged to how we do things. My wife and I have gone through a personal discipline of looking at expenses, and we spend a lot less than we used to. We eat really well, and we do pretty much anything we want to do, but we stay under budget every single month. Even though I have a number of credit cards, and a lot of credit lines, we primarily use one, so I don’t have to remember to pay the others. Everything comes on the 1st of the month, so there is a ritual in paying it all. 100% on-time payments, no interest charges. It’s been a good discipline that has energized us, and we have more money to support the charities we want to support. It feels good to be able to give some to other people.
 When you build your budget, let’s talk about the giving part of this. Part of philanthropy is money. Part of it is showing up. You talked about showing up earlier. It’s not just physically present, but it’s emotionally present. Where does giving come into our financial system?
 Chella: Giving should be up here with paying yourself, giving, then meeting your obligations, then down the line should be your wants. Not to deprive yourself. But I am saying if you put it in that order, I guarantee you that you will always have money for everything. It just shows up. The money always showed up for Bob.
 I agree with you. I think that God gives you all that you need. I am delighted, and I believe in thinking positive. Where I see the struggle is we want to think positive, and your students are saying that. It’s the monkey chatter behind the scenes from the money conversations we heard as children. We have that conflict. It’s about identifying it so that it’s minimized. I haven’t been able to make it go away entirely, but it is minimized, so the voice is softer and not as loud. It’s about making the voice softer.
 Hugh: That annoying voice that lies to us. A while back, we had Dr. David Gruder talking about the psychologist’s view of money shadow. Say more about how those negative scripts hurt us.
 Chella: Because we believe them, right? I’ll share mine. My dad was a baker. He definitely shared that you have to work hard for your money. He did. He worked very hard. One time, he took two jobs. One paycheck went toward a down payment for the house. After we bought the house, he quit the job. So he did work hard for his money. He was incredibly successful and bought lots of great properties. I grew up that you have to work hard with money because my dad did physical work. He was a baker.
 When I did my very first paid speaking gig, I went through it. Here I am getting paid for something I love doing and for talking. I went through that psychology. It’s about what that five-year-old identifies with, and how we carry that along with us. Which is why I think identifying it and releasing it is where the key comes in. You’re no longer subject to it.
 Hugh: You started talking about the lies we hear about money. What were those?
 Chella: You have to work hard. You have to struggle. Money does not grow on trees. And we can’t afford it. Those are the ones that keep coming up, no matter what income you’re in. We go back to whatever those adults have. The key here is that this is something- Think of it as a gift. These stories we have been told are a gift. Sometimes I think it comes from good intention. The adults want to prepare us for the future. They want to set us up for success. The stories they are giving you are a gift. Now give them back. It was a gift that you don’t have to take. It’s okay to give the gift back.
 Hugh: Wow. I was formulating another question, but I got into what you were talking about. I can’t afford it. That’s code for, “I don’t like it,” or “I don’t understand what you’re asking me.” Isn’t it?
 Chella: it is. It also could be simply that the adults didn’t understand. We go back to the adults. We go back. Even if you now look at the grocery store and see a mom and kids, if you hear the mom saying, “No, we can’t afford it,” what is that child’s interpretation of money? It’s not about the fact you said you can’t afford it, because maybe you can’t, or you don’t want to. Telling them you can’t afford it is about the interpretation the kid is walking away with.
 Hugh: You’re choosing to spend money on something else. It ceases to be a reason and becomes an excuse. There is no reason to pay for anything you want. Back to your list of wants and needs. Do you do this on a monthly basis, a weekly basis, in hindsight or forecast?
 Chella: I like the moving forward because you become more aware. We’re sure nothing slipped through the cracks. Keep track of your money for seven days. Any time you spend a dollar, you write it down. I like to divide the seven days into wants and needs. That’s it. I don’t analyze it or judge it. We just do a black and white list. You do this for four weeks. You will find some of the things that you are ready to let go from that list. What are some of the things, like my lunch person? Along with going out for lunch, she is putting $500 toward a down payment of a house, which was important to her. Once you find something you can replace it with, I take it Bob likes horses. Can we buy new toys for the horse? Does that work? Once you are able to find where the money is going and you choose something else to do with it, that is where you begin to shift and accumulate to have money for those things.
 You’re a perfect example, Hugh. You have a spending plan, but you are always able to do the things you want to do. It’s about having the choice to do what we want to do.
 Hugh: A spending plan doesn’t mean you can’t do fun things. A whole lot of things don’t cost money, or very little money. Sometimes the free things are healthier anyway.
 What I see often is, especially in early-stage organizations, we make bad decisions on spending. We put wants ahead of the needs, like hiring staff prematurely until we have enough money in the bank to pay for that person for at least a year. We get out ahead of it. We assume the product will sell. We assume the donors will donate. We will assume we will get grants. So we hire in preparation for that. That is a bad habit we bring over with our personal life. We bully our way through here. Really, we need to have a foundation of revenue becoming revenue until we can get an executive director or a funding specialist on our staff. It’s good to get someone on staff who knows how to handle money.
 So it needs to be the right choice at the right stage, and we need to have a plan that can work, and an accounting system to track it. We can’t keep it in our head. We have a lot of systems that interface with our credit cards and bank accounts. It’s automatically kept up to date for us. It’s a good era to manage that.
 We get a chunk of money. A donor writes us a large check. Whoopee. We can go to work. We can hire people and buy equipment and rent space, and we run out of money. We haven’t looked at our forecast. A budget is a spending plan, but really what’s our cash flow projection? In business, we call it a burn rate. You are spending money and not selling things enough to offset the cost of doing business.
 It’s still a burn rate in the nonprofit world. We’re not offsetting the old revenue with new revenue. We are spending the money without creating new money. There is a relationship to money that comes from our personal life, that brings in good discipline and running an organization. I am not perfect in all of this. I am not here saying I am the model; I am here to say we are all struggling and need to improve.
 Do you want to comment on any of that? Talk a little bit about that. After that piece, we have a relationship with money, but our relationships with people impact our cash as well.
 Chella: I could not have asked for a better set-up. That is why if you do the 30 days for your personal life and your business, you will know exactly what it takes to run your business on a monthly basis. When you get that $100,000 check, what if you are able to put away one to two years of monthly revenue on your business and spend the rest on projects? At least you know you’re covered for however many months. We don’t know when the next money will come in. That’s magical. You know that you at least will be able to continue to do that work for the amount of time. The more money that comes in, the better. But cover that base first.
 It’s a work in progress. Sometimes we will fall off track a little bit, and then you get back. But keeping track or finding out what it is you need on a monthly basis is magical because then you will always be prepared. It’s the ideal situation. Also, that peace of mind will come with it.
 Prematurely hiring someone. What if you are able to ask them to volunteer five hours, ten hours a week? Then you will get to know each other, see each other’s skillsets. When you are ready to hire them, they will be able to step in. It’s that intern, if you will. Then you know if they are a fit for your company. Asking for that volunteer is a great way to help you until you can get the money ready, but also find out if they are a fit for your company. If not, you will spend a lot of time and money investing in something that may not work. A volunteer is a great way to help you, and do what you want to do, which is help. You want to give back. But you don’t have to spend the money.
 Hugh: Yes. Relationships. We have mental capital, a product or service, and the work we do, and we want financial capital. But there is this relationship capital in between those.
 Chella: I want you to think about money and relationship the same way you would do a business partner, a donor, or whatever. How you’re talking to that donor is the same way you should be talking to money. If you are telling money, “I don’t have enough. You’re never enough,” if that was a partner, and this is where the money relationship shifts. If you are in a relationship, because you are, we are in a relationship with money, whether we are readily able to admit it or not. Talk to money the same way you would talk about a potential donor. How you would treat that person is the same way. Treat the donor the same way as money and treat money the same way as the donor. This is a win-win for all. There is something for the donor to contribute to your organization. Think about money. Start dating money. Get to that point where you are ready to make a commitment and get married.
 Hugh: Find your money leaks. Develop a plan. Get an accountability partner. Don’t bleed yourself dry. Don’t deprive yourself of fun things. But be responsible.
 Your analogy with the person who was spending $750 and they cut it down to $250 on lunches, they can now save money for a house. In the world of nonprofits, we want to put away money to build an endowment fund. People do give to it specifically, but we can build it in more than one way. Having an endowment fund allows you to build interest that could pay for your operations expenses if it was large enough. That is a discipline for nonprofits.
 *Sponsored by EZCard*
 Chella, this has been useful stuff. This is not just theory, but applicable information. This is what we like to do: help leaders be better leaders. What closing thought would you like to leave people with?
 Chella: I truly encourage you to do the four-week challenge. It’s just four weeks to finding your money leaks and get your money journey on track. Love to hear from you. It’s been a pleasure and an honor to be here today. Every single person who has done this, their money conversation and relationship has shifted. Highly encourage you. It’s only four weeks.  
 Hugh: Only four weeks. Your life is a downer if you don’t do it. Chella has been building her website. Chella Diaz, thank you for being our guest today on The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Chella: It’s been an honor, thank you.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2020 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/741dfc7a-b329-11eb-9f0f-3bcd4a8788d4/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Finding Your Money Leaks</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Shift Your Money Relationship: Finding Your Money Leaks with Chella Diaz
 Chella Diaz knew at a very young age how to manage money, at 9 years old she would go to the Farmer’s market and knew the vendors that had the best product at the lowest price. She purchased her car at 17 and her first home at 23. Chella was married for 17 years and has two sons. For over 15 years, Chella has been on her spiritual journey.
 Chella has been hosting workshops to empower people to master their money skills. Her simple approach to creating a spending plan that will serve you today and for many years to come will allow you to reach your financial goals with joy and grace.
 Chella has worked with many coaches and mentors and created a program that meets each client where they are and provides them with the tools they need to unpack their emotional baggage around money.
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: It’s 2pm on the Eastern Coast time zone. We are hosting The Nonprofit Exchange yet again. Every week, it’s special. We have a guest who shares some really good stuff. We are talking about money today, but it will be different. It’s one of those things everyone talks about.
 *Sponsored by EZCard*
 My guest today is Chella Diaz. Long-time friend, but we finally connected, and I understand why she needed to be on this show and tell you things that she knows. Chella, tell people a little bit about yourself and why you’re doing this thing that you’re doing.
 Chella Diaz: It would be my pleasure. It’s an honor to be here. It’s all about timing. We have known each other for several years, and I’m glad we’re here. The timing is absolutely prefect.
 I have been good with money since I was nine. I was just one of those little interesting kids. I purchased my first car when I was 17 and my first house when I was 23. Before some of you start jumping, I have been speaking for a long time. My dad was a baker, and my mom was a housewife. Some of you may think I got lots of help. I did, but not financial. When I went to purchase my first house, I was short $1,600. My dad did lend me the money at that point in time, but up until then, it was just one of those things that made sense. I have two amazing boys, young men now.
 I spent many years in the corporate world. I was a real estate underwriter. Along with my being good with money, I got the opportunity to review over 20,000 real estate loans. I got to see this black and white stuff. This is me reviewing tax returns and seeing how the wealthy save their money and the folks that don’t have money. I saw a pattern.
 After my divorce, and after the company I worked for shut down, I knew that I didn’t want to go back to that. I knew there was something bigger I wanted to do. That was when I published my first book Money Bootcamp. My idea was to empower high school and college students. That was when my business idea began. The first business idea doesn’t always take off.
 Then I was asked to speak at various women’s groups. For me, that was when the light went on. Watching and teaching women not only how to manage money but also how to set themselves apart so they always have enough money to do what they want to do, and watching the lights go on. I do work with some men, but my main audience is women and high school students and college students.
 To me, I feel that this is my way of giving back. This is my mission. I get to have so much fun doing it. People always say, “Find something that you like, and you will never work a day in my life.” I feel very fortunate because that is what I am doing right now: having an amazing time.
 Hugh: Yeah, you gotta have fun. I am still doing what I do in my senior years and enjoying it more than ever before. There is a lot more to do and more to learn. My area is leadership and organizational development. It’s a big area. Money is another big area.
 We start out in the nonprofit world with this word “nonprofit.” We immediately set the tone that is negative. We have profitability. It’s not profit in the sense of a business where we look out for our shareholders and have this big salary for the top person. It’s a for-purpose enterprise, where we are doing charitable work, but watching money. We have this negative thing about money from the start.
 When we minimize things and we cut pennies, we are really hurting ourselves in terms of how we manage money. We’re in an era where women leaders are stepping up. This is a good time for you to talk about how women bring unique skills to the marketplace as entrepreneurs running a social enterprise or business. My wife is a clergy in the Methodist church. There are new opportunities for women to bring fresh perspectives and ideas.
 Let’s talk about how we see money. What are the biggest problems in how people think about money?
 Chella: I believe it goes back to when we are five years old, and we begin to hear, “We can’t afford it. You have to work hard for your money. Money does not grow on trees.” These are three of the most popular phrases I come across. When we think about that story we hear, how it travels and grows with us, so that we can’t afford it. Now we are here in a purpose, where we want to help people, but we are still having this, “I can’t afford it. You have to struggle for money.” That interferes with our mission and purpose. It prevents us from asking, going after, and showing up. Whether we are working on our passion project, it doesn’t matter. We tend not to show up for our business. We tend not to share. Most importantly, we do not ask for what we need.
 Hugh: In the case of nonprofits, we are sharing our vision and our mission and the impact that we’re having on people’s lives. In a way, we’re asking, but we’re inviting people to participate in that work. We start these habits. If I hear you right, we have been spoonfed these from the beginning. We were told things about leadership that don’t work, and we have been told things about money that don’t help us at all. What is the antidote to this?
 Chella: It’s going and identifying what that story was and connecting to how that is currently affecting your financial picture. It sounds simplistic, but every single one of my clients who has done this- Once you have identified and shed some light on this, then you are no longer subject to that story. It’s giving a voice.
 Hugh: Don’t give the voice to the story. It’s like we download software in our computer, but we have to learn how to use it correctly. We only use the templates.
 We have Ryad here from Algeria, part of Bob Hopkin’s class in Dallas. He has a special interest in inspiring young leaders to think about philanthropy in a new way. To be a philanthropist, we don’t need to be afraid of money. Philanthropy is not all about the money. We do make financial contributions. As we welcome new people into the Methodist church, we say to participate with your time, talent, and money. There is a triple invitation, but there is an opportunity for young people to understand.
 I had Ivan Misner on the show last week. The motto for BNI is Givers Gain. It’s a different mindset.
 How do we get an awareness of some of these negative things we have been taught? You are in who we have been taught. How do we have an awareness to gain a mindset?
 Chella: By simply beginning to write. As we are sitting here, I am a huge note-taker. As you are saying wisdoms, write down. Sit down for 10 minutes, for seven days, silent, and think about those money conversations you listened to. That will bring them up to awareness.
 Everybody has a conversation. There are a few of you out there who are not going to have it because adults do not talk about money. Go back. 10 minutes. Seven days. I would love to hear from you what your feedback is. These things, the minute you begin to give the mind a task, it will do it for you.
 But if you don’t remember, that is also very telling because that means as a little child, what stories did you make up about the fact that adults were not talking about money? That is also very powerful. You make up a story as a kid as to what that meant. I wish I was making this up.
 As an adult, it’s possible you are in a relationship, and you don’t talk about money. But you have this white elephant in the room that nobody is talking about. Not hearing a conversation is also incredibly telling. What did that little child make up as a story?
 Hugh: We know that we give energy to what we think about. If you think about debt, we are in a panic time. The media wants to scare us so that we read their newspaper or watch their show. We don’t need to buy into these narratives that have penalized us. Dan Pallotta has this keynote where he talks about the way we think about charity is dead wrong. Nonprofit is a good starting point. It’s a bad word; it’s a lie. But it’s the word we know. It’s a genre of operating. It’s a tax-exempt business.
 Part of the headline here is, “Money Leaks.” What do you mean? Do you carry it in a bucket, and it leaks out?
 Chella: I am going to make that a picture. As we go through life, and we get services, and we don’t realize that some of these, are we using them? The most traditional one would be a membership to the gym and we don’t use it. There are so many other things that we go out and purchase, and we don’t use. Those are the money leaks. Those are the ones.
 But also, how are you choosing to spend your money? This is the $100,000 question. If you are able to sit down and track your finances for 30 days, whether you go back and do it or start fresh from here moving forward, if you are able to track any time you spend over a dollar on a notepad or a Word document or an app, at the end of the four weeks, you are going to divide that list into how much you spend on wants and how much on needs. I prefer to do it every week, so it doesn’t seem like such an overwhelming task. For four weeks, how much did you spend on wants versus needs? At the end of the four weeks, you will find your money leaks.
 One of my favorite examples is a young lady was spending $750 a month for lunch. You don’t realize how much you’re spending. You go to the bank and get the money. You’re on automatic pilot. You don’t realize where the money is going. By taking the time to do this one task for four weeks, whether it’s lunch or dinner or snacks- One of my clients, $125 in snacks. He would stop at the corner store before getting to work to pick up snacks. $125 for snacks? Imagine what you could do with $125 a month extra.
 By doing this one task, you are going to find where your money leaks are. I don’t believe in giving up everything. After you find the money leaks, my lunch person, she decided to put away $500 toward a down payment of a house, but she still went out to lunch. She still had $250 to work with for lunch. You will find what other choices you can make with your money. How are you choosing to spend your money? That’s where the magic happens, folks.
 Hugh: You start buying a $5 latte every day. That adds up to a lot of money. That is a lot of money over the terms of a week, a year. You add all those wants up, not needs. You can get an app like Mint, which shows you every day where your money went. It’s free. Is something like that helpful?
 Chella: Absolutely. It’s doing the work for you. The only thing with some of those apps. If you are able to track everything, fabulous. Sometimes you may not be able to track stopping at the store and picking up flowers. When you pay with cash, that is where Mint may not be great. But it is a great start. I like Mint.
 Hugh: I try to do everything on a credit card. I don’t care what the interest rate is. A high interest rate encourages me to pay it off. To me, the interest rate, the higher the better. I can’t pay interest, so it encourages me to pay the thing off. My particular card gives me a summary by category in addition to the Mint, and it also gives me hotel points. I go to a lot of hotels I don’t pay any money for. There is a liability in a credit card where you just use credit without the cash to pay it at the end of the month. There is an accountability process here. If you are struggling to make ends meet, you have to be aware of your own spending. We go out and have drinks with friends, and we spend money. We don’t have to do all that. We can drink water and have a good time and have a wine at home. Pay for a bottle instead of one glass at a restaurant. Or give it up all together. How do you stay on track? Do you have an accountability partner idea? Maybe we encourage each other.
 Chella: Hugh just brought up a big idea. If you know anybody who has credit cards, ask them to add up three months’ worth of interest. How much did they pay in three months? When you see that, let’s say it’s $500 for three months. That is going to be $2,000 for the year. This is the game-changer. When you start thinking not only am I making the credit card company rich, but what could I be doing with $2,000 at the end of the year? Imagine what that looks like in your bank account. I find that when people do this task, they are able to go out and work maybe a little bit harder for the short term to pay off that debt, be it selling something or doing something extra so that money can flow into their account.
 The accountability is one of my favorite things to do. I still have two accountability partners. I suggest they cannot be a spouse or significant other. This is something you’re working on yourself first. Then you can come together. It’s not that you can’t tell them what you’re doing. Once upon a time, purchasing personal development courses was a weakness for me. Any time I saw it on TV or an event, any time I went to spend over $100, I needed to call my accountability partner and share that I wanted to buy this thing I could not live without. You tell each other what your goals are, what your weaknesses are, and then you call each other during that time. After I started talking about it, justifying why I needed to buy this, it was so silly. I really didn’t need it. An accountability partner helps you to stay on track on whatever financial goals you are. It helps you stay away from the shiny objects, and they are there to celebrate any time you achieve a milestone.
 Hugh: These are all good personal growth habits. I wanted you on the show because we all bring our good and bad habits into the workplace. Many of our audience has a vision for changing people’s lives through a nonprofit they founded; sometimes they run it, or they get other people to run it. We want to identify these because the personal problems become systemic problems and a problem for the organization.
 In the nonprofit world, we are required to have a board of directors, and they oversee the money part. The same issues that you just talked about do exist in organizations. I have seen organizations who are broke, but there is no discipline or system or accountability or awareness of living beyond our means. We don’t have the money coming in, but we have to do these programs because they are compelling. You have to take care of home first. How do leaders bring these shortcomings into the business? How does that hurt everybody?
 Chella: That’s why I think you have to start at home. Find your money leaks, fix them. Once you start to do that, what happens is you begin to see other opportunities, whether it’s the saving $500 a month. Other opportunities begin to present themselves. Debt creates overwhelm and stress. When you are stressed and have to think about how you make those payments, there is that “Another payment, I have to write out ten checks.” I know people don’t do that anymore. Automatic pay, whatever that is. I need to pay ten bills versus three bills. That takes stress. When you are able to get that under control at home, those skillsets will transfer to your organization.
 You are able to come up with different ideas for a fundraiser. You are able to share about your project to that person you haven’t thought about sharing. It opens up more space for you to be able to be more productive and bring in more money to your nonprofit, or what I call a passion project.
 Hugh: Your passion project. What is your passion project?
 Chella: My passion project is to do workshops for high school students and college students. It’s interesting because I hear a lot from them about how they don’t care about the money, but they want to make a difference. I say, “In order to make a difference, you need the money.”
 Hugh: Ryad, as a young person facing the life ahead, does this stimulate any questions for you, or do you want to comment on what you’re hearing?
 Ryad Benabdelkader: Yes. By the way, I like the use of the credit card. Where I live, it’s not used very much. People love cash. They never use a credit card. Starting with my family and my parents, they just use cash in Algeria. But I like the idea of the credit card because you have to think about how to use the money twice. You won’t just buy it with cash. Each time my parents are just spending, spending, spending. If it was with a credit card, it would be better, and they know where to spend the money. I love the idea of credit cards. I hope we will apply it one day.
 Hugh: You’re in Algeria.
 Ryad: Yes.
 Hugh: How do you pay for things? Physical cash or digital payments.
 Ryad: Physical cash.
 Hugh: I understand you were admitted to a college in France, so you will be going to France. How will this kind of information help you think about managing your expenses in college?
 Ryad: I love the idea of credit cards because like this, I will manage and optimize how and where to spend the money without carrying cash. I would just be buying this and this. With a credit card, I will only buy things I need with limits. Each time you see the card, you think about money.
 Hugh: Before I go to Professor Hopkins, let’s talk about philanthropy. In order to be a philanthropist, you want to manage your time because we give time and talent, but we also give money. Why do you think it’s important to manage our own finances? Why do you think it’s important to have our house in order to be a better philanthropist? I will give you some time to think about it. Bob, what kinds of questions do you have today?
 Bob Hopkins: Thank you very much. Unfortunately, I hate this topic. I hate this topic for me personally. I hate the words, “I can’t afford it.” In respect to you, I think your topic and what you tell the students is what they need because people need to manage money. I have never been able to do that unfortunately. Because of my elderly age, what you see on the horse is what I look like today. I am 50 years older than that person on that horse.
 I try to teach students to think positively instead of thinking, “I can’t have, and I don’t have.” I think that God gives us everything we need, and you just have to have a positive attitude about it. Unfortunately, I don’t manage money very well. For some reason, there always seems to be money when I need it. But I do understand, and it’s a good thing I don’t have children. I was thinking of you when you said, “What did I think of money when I was five years old?” I could always have what I needed. When I became an adult, my parents divorced, and I think one reason that happened is because of money. It’s not been one of my best topics.
 Hugh: Let me introduce you to my friend Chella. Bob is a colleague in Texas. Sandy, do you have any questions here?
 Sandy Birkenmaier: My parents didn’t have a whole lot of money when I was growing up. When I was 10, they bought their first brand new car. They had no credit whatsoever because they’d always paid cash for everything. I learned pretty early that it was important to have a credit record at least. My dad died when I was 13, and we had even less money. I never had money when I was growing up unless there was something special I needed to buy. I had to justify then why it was that I needed money. I raised my kids that you do need to establish a credit record, but you need to not be using a credit card unless you are able to pay that credit card off. I pretty much managed to do that through adulthood. There have been times where things have gotten rough, and the credit cards have stacked up, but I got them paid off as quickly as possible. I think I have a pretty good relationship with money.
 Hugh: Great. Sandy, thank you. Chella, that triggered a couple of interesting topics. Thank you for allowing me to have you comment. When you start an enterprise and apply for a credit card, they will check your personal credit. You are the founder of this and want to apply for a credit card. This is one area that is important for having your act together. Do you want to comment on that?
 Bob’s relationship with money, he’s a mover and shaker. He is an energy field. I am sure in his career with nonprofits, he has seen a challenge with money. It’s an attitude that comes from the top. Those are two areas for you to bounce off of.
 Chella: Actually, Hugh, you mentioned earlier. When it comes to money and credit, people think about it as a negative thing. But you are proof that that’s not the case. You are able to get things for free. It’s about learning how to use the system. I have a friend who got a 32-inch flat-screen TV for free. She was a business owner, and she charged a lot, and she paid a lot. She accumulated so many points. That’s the thing about credit cards. We can use them to our advantage. We can use them just like Sandy, thank you for sharing, and Bob. We are going to come back to you. But you can use these credit cards to your advantage. They don’t have to be the bad word. This is a tool you can use to get free stuff. I personally have gotten gift cards. You can give them away for gifts. It can definitely work to your advantage.
 Know that the magic is you only need three types of credit that is being reported. All you need is three lines in order to build a credit score.
 Hugh: Three lines? Three credit cards?
 Chella: It could be a credit card. A car loan. Anything that reports. It cannot be paying rent. That is not reported. Utility bills, those are not reported. Those do not count. Three, be it two credit cards, a car loan. Three of them in order to build credit. That’s it.
 Hugh: It’s all back to what you were talking about. It’s a matter of discipline or attitude and an awareness. I see a lot of people start a business or nonprofit, and they say, “We will make money and do these things.” How important is it to put a budget line item on there to mark our discipline for spending?
 Chella: I love that. I don’t like to use the b-word. The budget. If we start thinking about, “This is how I am creating a spending plan” instead. It sounds softer and not quite so rigid. But if you create a spending plan, then you have choice. You are spending this. This is how much we allocated for this and that. Create a spending plan, and stick to it. Sometimes, we want to do, and we want to serve. But if we don’t have the money coming in, it’s going to stop sooner or later. There is only so much you can do. Right now, I do know quite a few nonprofits where the money is just not coming in, and they may need to shut down.
 Hugh: It’s a challenge for the whole sector. Small businesses, churches, restaurants, nonprofits: we are challenged to how we do things. My wife and I have gone through a personal discipline of looking at expenses, and we spend a lot less than we used to. We eat really well, and we do pretty much anything we want to do, but we stay under budget every single month. Even though I have a number of credit cards, and a lot of credit lines, we primarily use one, so I don’t have to remember to pay the others. Everything comes on the 1st of the month, so there is a ritual in paying it all. 100% on-time payments, no interest charges. It’s been a good discipline that has energized us, and we have more money to support the charities we want to support. It feels good to be able to give some to other people.
 When you build your budget, let’s talk about the giving part of this. Part of philanthropy is money. Part of it is showing up. You talked about showing up earlier. It’s not just physically present, but it’s emotionally present. Where does giving come into our financial system?
 Chella: Giving should be up here with paying yourself, giving, then meeting your obligations, then down the line should be your wants. Not to deprive yourself. But I am saying if you put it in that order, I guarantee you that you will always have money for everything. It just shows up. The money always showed up for Bob.
 I agree with you. I think that God gives you all that you need. I am delighted, and I believe in thinking positive. Where I see the struggle is we want to think positive, and your students are saying that. It’s the monkey chatter behind the scenes from the money conversations we heard as children. We have that conflict. It’s about identifying it so that it’s minimized. I haven’t been able to make it go away entirely, but it is minimized, so the voice is softer and not as loud. It’s about making the voice softer.
 Hugh: That annoying voice that lies to us. A while back, we had Dr. David Gruder talking about the psychologist’s view of money shadow. Say more about how those negative scripts hurt us.
 Chella: Because we believe them, right? I’ll share mine. My dad was a baker. He definitely shared that you have to work hard for your money. He did. He worked very hard. One time, he took two jobs. One paycheck went toward a down payment for the house. After we bought the house, he quit the job. So he did work hard for his money. He was incredibly successful and bought lots of great properties. I grew up that you have to work hard with money because my dad did physical work. He was a baker.
 When I did my very first paid speaking gig, I went through it. Here I am getting paid for something I love doing and for talking. I went through that psychology. It’s about what that five-year-old identifies with, and how we carry that along with us. Which is why I think identifying it and releasing it is where the key comes in. You’re no longer subject to it.
 Hugh: You started talking about the lies we hear about money. What were those?
 Chella: You have to work hard. You have to struggle. Money does not grow on trees. And we can’t afford it. Those are the ones that keep coming up, no matter what income you’re in. We go back to whatever those adults have. The key here is that this is something- Think of it as a gift. These stories we have been told are a gift. Sometimes I think it comes from good intention. The adults want to prepare us for the future. They want to set us up for success. The stories they are giving you are a gift. Now give them back. It was a gift that you don’t have to take. It’s okay to give the gift back.
 Hugh: Wow. I was formulating another question, but I got into what you were talking about. I can’t afford it. That’s code for, “I don’t like it,” or “I don’t understand what you’re asking me.” Isn’t it?
 Chella: it is. It also could be simply that the adults didn’t understand. We go back to the adults. We go back. Even if you now look at the grocery store and see a mom and kids, if you hear the mom saying, “No, we can’t afford it,” what is that child’s interpretation of money? It’s not about the fact you said you can’t afford it, because maybe you can’t, or you don’t want to. Telling them you can’t afford it is about the interpretation the kid is walking away with.
 Hugh: You’re choosing to spend money on something else. It ceases to be a reason and becomes an excuse. There is no reason to pay for anything you want. Back to your list of wants and needs. Do you do this on a monthly basis, a weekly basis, in hindsight or forecast?
 Chella: I like the moving forward because you become more aware. We’re sure nothing slipped through the cracks. Keep track of your money for seven days. Any time you spend a dollar, you write it down. I like to divide the seven days into wants and needs. That’s it. I don’t analyze it or judge it. We just do a black and white list. You do this for four weeks. You will find some of the things that you are ready to let go from that list. What are some of the things, like my lunch person? Along with going out for lunch, she is putting $500 toward a down payment of a house, which was important to her. Once you find something you can replace it with, I take it Bob likes horses. Can we buy new toys for the horse? Does that work? Once you are able to find where the money is going and you choose something else to do with it, that is where you begin to shift and accumulate to have money for those things.
 You’re a perfect example, Hugh. You have a spending plan, but you are always able to do the things you want to do. It’s about having the choice to do what we want to do.
 Hugh: A spending plan doesn’t mean you can’t do fun things. A whole lot of things don’t cost money, or very little money. Sometimes the free things are healthier anyway.
 What I see often is, especially in early-stage organizations, we make bad decisions on spending. We put wants ahead of the needs, like hiring staff prematurely until we have enough money in the bank to pay for that person for at least a year. We get out ahead of it. We assume the product will sell. We assume the donors will donate. We will assume we will get grants. So we hire in preparation for that. That is a bad habit we bring over with our personal life. We bully our way through here. Really, we need to have a foundation of revenue becoming revenue until we can get an executive director or a funding specialist on our staff. It’s good to get someone on staff who knows how to handle money.
 So it needs to be the right choice at the right stage, and we need to have a plan that can work, and an accounting system to track it. We can’t keep it in our head. We have a lot of systems that interface with our credit cards and bank accounts. It’s automatically kept up to date for us. It’s a good era to manage that.
 We get a chunk of money. A donor writes us a large check. Whoopee. We can go to work. We can hire people and buy equipment and rent space, and we run out of money. We haven’t looked at our forecast. A budget is a spending plan, but really what’s our cash flow projection? In business, we call it a burn rate. You are spending money and not selling things enough to offset the cost of doing business.
 It’s still a burn rate in the nonprofit world. We’re not offsetting the old revenue with new revenue. We are spending the money without creating new money. There is a relationship to money that comes from our personal life, that brings in good discipline and running an organization. I am not perfect in all of this. I am not here saying I am the model; I am here to say we are all struggling and need to improve.
 Do you want to comment on any of that? Talk a little bit about that. After that piece, we have a relationship with money, but our relationships with people impact our cash as well.
 Chella: I could not have asked for a better set-up. That is why if you do the 30 days for your personal life and your business, you will know exactly what it takes to run your business on a monthly basis. When you get that $100,000 check, what if you are able to put away one to two years of monthly revenue on your business and spend the rest on projects? At least you know you’re covered for however many months. We don’t know when the next money will come in. That’s magical. You know that you at least will be able to continue to do that work for the amount of time. The more money that comes in, the better. But cover that base first.
 It’s a work in progress. Sometimes we will fall off track a little bit, and then you get back. But keeping track or finding out what it is you need on a monthly basis is magical because then you will always be prepared. It’s the ideal situation. Also, that peace of mind will come with it.
 Prematurely hiring someone. What if you are able to ask them to volunteer five hours, ten hours a week? Then you will get to know each other, see each other’s skillsets. When you are ready to hire them, they will be able to step in. It’s that intern, if you will. Then you know if they are a fit for your company. Asking for that volunteer is a great way to help you until you can get the money ready, but also find out if they are a fit for your company. If not, you will spend a lot of time and money investing in something that may not work. A volunteer is a great way to help you, and do what you want to do, which is help. You want to give back. But you don’t have to spend the money.
 Hugh: Yes. Relationships. We have mental capital, a product or service, and the work we do, and we want financial capital. But there is this relationship capital in between those.
 Chella: I want you to think about money and relationship the same way you would do a business partner, a donor, or whatever. How you’re talking to that donor is the same way you should be talking to money. If you are telling money, “I don’t have enough. You’re never enough,” if that was a partner, and this is where the money relationship shifts. If you are in a relationship, because you are, we are in a relationship with money, whether we are readily able to admit it or not. Talk to money the same way you would talk about a potential donor. How you would treat that person is the same way. Treat the donor the same way as money and treat money the same way as the donor. This is a win-win for all. There is something for the donor to contribute to your organization. Think about money. Start dating money. Get to that point where you are ready to make a commitment and get married.
 Hugh: Find your money leaks. Develop a plan. Get an accountability partner. Don’t bleed yourself dry. Don’t deprive yourself of fun things. But be responsible.
 Your analogy with the person who was spending $750 and they cut it down to $250 on lunches, they can now save money for a house. In the world of nonprofits, we want to put away money to build an endowment fund. People do give to it specifically, but we can build it in more than one way. Having an endowment fund allows you to build interest that could pay for your operations expenses if it was large enough. That is a discipline for nonprofits.
 *Sponsored by EZCard*
 Chella, this has been useful stuff. This is not just theory, but applicable information. This is what we like to do: help leaders be better leaders. What closing thought would you like to leave people with?
 Chella: I truly encourage you to do the four-week challenge. It’s just four weeks to finding your money leaks and get your money journey on track. Love to hear from you. It’s been a pleasure and an honor to be here today. Every single person who has done this, their money conversation and relationship has shifted. Highly encourage you. It’s only four weeks.  
 Hugh: Only four weeks. Your life is a downer if you don’t do it. Chella has been building her website. Chella Diaz, thank you for being our guest today on The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Chella: It’s been an honor, thank you.
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Shift Your Money Relationship: Finding Your Money Leaks with Chella Diaz</strong></h1> <p><strong>Chella Diaz</strong> knew at a very young age how to manage money, at 9 years old she would go to the Farmer’s market and knew the vendors that had the best product at the lowest price. She purchased her car at 17 and her first home at 23. Chella was married for 17 years and has two sons.<br> For over 15 years, Chella has been on her spiritual journey.</p> <p>Chella has been hosting workshops to empower people to master their money skills. Her simple approach to creating a spending plan that will serve you today and for many years to come will allow you to reach your financial goals with joy and grace.</p> <p>Chella has worked with many coaches and mentors and created a program that meets each client where they are and provides them with the tools they need to unpack their emotional baggage around money.</p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> It’s 2pm on the Eastern Coast time zone. We are hosting <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em> yet again. Every week, it’s special. We have a guest who shares some really good stuff. We are talking about money today, but it will be different. It’s one of those things everyone talks about.</p> <p>*Sponsored by EZCard*</p> <p>My guest today is Chella Diaz. Long-time friend, but we finally connected, and I understand why she needed to be on this show and tell you things that she knows. Chella, tell people a little bit about yourself and why you’re doing this thing that you’re doing.</p> <p><strong>Chella Diaz:</strong> It would be my pleasure. It’s an honor to be here. It’s all about timing. We have known each other for several years, and I’m glad we’re here. The timing is absolutely prefect.</p> <p>I have been good with money since I was nine. I was just one of those little interesting kids. I purchased my first car when I was 17 and my first house when I was 23. Before some of you start jumping, I have been speaking for a long time. My dad was a baker, and my mom was a housewife. Some of you may think I got lots of help. I did, but not financial. When I went to purchase my first house, I was short $1,600. My dad did lend me the money at that point in time, but up until then, it was just one of those things that made sense. I have two amazing boys, young men now.</p> <p>I spent many years in the corporate world. I was a real estate underwriter. Along with my being good with money, I got the opportunity to review over 20,000 real estate loans. I got to see this black and white stuff. This is me reviewing tax returns and seeing how the wealthy save their money and the folks that don’t have money. I saw a pattern.</p> <p>After my divorce, and after the company I worked for shut down, I knew that I didn’t want to go back to that. I knew there was something bigger I wanted to do. That was when I published my first book <em>Money Bootcamp.</em> My idea was to empower high school and college students. That was when my business idea began. The first business idea doesn’t always take off.</p> <p>Then I was asked to speak at various women’s groups. For me, that was when the light went on. Watching and teaching women not only how to manage money but also how to set themselves apart so they always have enough money to do what they want to do, and watching the lights go on. I do work with some men, but my main audience is women and high school students and college students.</p> <p>To me, I feel that this is my way of giving back. This is my mission. I get to have so much fun doing it. People always say, “Find something that you like, and you will never work a day in my life.” I feel very fortunate because that is what I am doing right now: having an amazing time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yeah, you gotta have fun. I am still doing what I do in my senior years and enjoying it more than ever before. There is a lot more to do and more to learn. My area is leadership and organizational development. It’s a big area. Money is another big area.</p> <p>We start out in the nonprofit world with this word “nonprofit.” We immediately set the tone that is negative. We have profitability. It’s not profit in the sense of a business where we look out for our shareholders and have this big salary for the top person. It’s a for-purpose enterprise, where we are doing charitable work, but watching money. We have this negative thing about money from the start.</p> <p>When we minimize things and we cut pennies, we are really hurting ourselves in terms of how we manage money. We’re in an era where women leaders are stepping up. This is a good time for you to talk about how women bring unique skills to the marketplace as entrepreneurs running a social enterprise or business. My wife is a clergy in the Methodist church. There are new opportunities for women to bring fresh perspectives and ideas.</p> <p>Let’s talk about how we see money. What are the biggest problems in how people think about money?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> I believe it goes back to when we are five years old, and we begin to hear, “We can’t afford it. You have to work hard for your money. Money does not grow on trees.” These are three of the most popular phrases I come across. When we think about that story we hear, how it travels and grows with us, so that we can’t afford it. Now we are here in a purpose, where we want to help people, but we are still having this, “I can’t afford it. You have to struggle for money.” That interferes with our mission and purpose. It prevents us from asking, going after, and showing up. Whether we are working on our passion project, it doesn’t matter. We tend not to show up for our business. We tend not to share. Most importantly, we do not ask for what we need.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> In the case of nonprofits, we are sharing our vision and our mission and the impact that we’re having on people’s lives. In a way, we’re asking, but we’re inviting people to participate in that work. We start these habits. If I hear you right, we have been spoonfed these from the beginning. We were told things about leadership that don’t work, and we have been told things about money that don’t help us at all. What is the antidote to this?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> It’s going and identifying what that story was and connecting to how that is currently affecting your financial picture. It sounds simplistic, but every single one of my clients who has done this- Once you have identified and shed some light on this, then you are no longer subject to that story. It’s giving a voice.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Don’t give the voice to the story. It’s like we download software in our computer, but we have to learn how to use it correctly. We only use the templates.</p> <p>We have Ryad here from Algeria, part of Bob Hopkin’s class in Dallas. He has a special interest in inspiring young leaders to think about philanthropy in a new way. To be a philanthropist, we don’t need to be afraid of money. Philanthropy is not all about the money. We do make financial contributions. As we welcome new people into the Methodist church, we say to participate with your time, talent, and money. There is a triple invitation, but there is an opportunity for young people to understand.</p> <p>I had Ivan Misner on the show last week. The motto for BNI is Givers Gain. It’s a different mindset.</p> <p>How do we get an awareness of some of these negative things we have been taught? You are in who we have been taught. How do we have an awareness to gain a mindset?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> By simply beginning to write. As we are sitting here, I am a huge note-taker. As you are saying wisdoms, write down. Sit down for 10 minutes, for seven days, silent, and think about those money conversations you listened to. That will bring them up to awareness.</p> <p>Everybody has a conversation. There are a few of you out there who are not going to have it because adults do not talk about money. Go back. 10 minutes. Seven days. I would love to hear from you what your feedback is. These things, the minute you begin to give the mind a task, it will do it for you.</p> <p>But if you don’t remember, that is also very telling because that means as a little child, what stories did you make up about the fact that adults were not talking about money? That is also very powerful. You make up a story as a kid as to what that meant. I wish I was making this up.</p> <p>As an adult, it’s possible you are in a relationship, and you don’t talk about money. But you have this white elephant in the room that nobody is talking about. Not hearing a conversation is also incredibly telling. What did that little child make up as a story?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We know that we give energy to what we think about. If you think about debt, we are in a panic time. The media wants to scare us so that we read their newspaper or watch their show. We don’t need to buy into these narratives that have penalized us. Dan Pallotta has this keynote where he talks about the way we think about charity is dead wrong. Nonprofit is a good starting point. It’s a bad word; it’s a lie. But it’s the word we know. It’s a genre of operating. It’s a tax-exempt business.</p> <p>Part of the headline here is, “Money Leaks.” What do you mean? Do you carry it in a bucket, and it leaks out?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> I am going to make that a picture. As we go through life, and we get services, and we don’t realize that some of these, are we using them? The most traditional one would be a membership to the gym and we don’t use it. There are so many other things that we go out and purchase, and we don’t use. Those are the money leaks. Those are the ones.</p> <p>But also, how are you choosing to spend your money? This is the $100,000 question. If you are able to sit down and track your finances for 30 days, whether you go back and do it or start fresh from here moving forward, if you are able to track any time you spend over a dollar on a notepad or a Word document or an app, at the end of the four weeks, you are going to divide that list into how much you spend on wants and how much on needs. I prefer to do it every week, so it doesn’t seem like such an overwhelming task. For four weeks, how much did you spend on wants versus needs? At the end of the four weeks, you will find your money leaks.</p> <p>One of my favorite examples is a young lady was spending $750 a month for lunch. You don’t realize how much you’re spending. You go to the bank and get the money. You’re on automatic pilot. You don’t realize where the money is going. By taking the time to do this one task for four weeks, whether it’s lunch or dinner or snacks- One of my clients, $125 in snacks. He would stop at the corner store before getting to work to pick up snacks. $125 for snacks? Imagine what you could do with $125 a month extra.</p> <p>By doing this one task, you are going to find where your money leaks are. I don’t believe in giving up everything. After you find the money leaks, my lunch person, she decided to put away $500 toward a down payment of a house, but she still went out to lunch. She still had $250 to work with for lunch. You will find what other choices you can make with your money. How are you choosing to spend your money? That’s where the magic happens, folks.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You start buying a $5 latte every day. That adds up to a lot of money. That is a lot of money over the terms of a week, a year. You add all those wants up, not needs. You can get an app like Mint, which shows you every day where your money went. It’s free. Is something like that helpful?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> Absolutely. It’s doing the work for you. The only thing with some of those apps. If you are able to track everything, fabulous. Sometimes you may not be able to track stopping at the store and picking up flowers. When you pay with cash, that is where Mint may not be great. But it is a great start. I like Mint.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I try to do everything on a credit card. I don’t care what the interest rate is. A high interest rate encourages me to pay it off. To me, the interest rate, the higher the better. I can’t pay interest, so it encourages me to pay the thing off. My particular card gives me a summary by category in addition to the Mint, and it also gives me hotel points. I go to a lot of hotels I don’t pay any money for. There is a liability in a credit card where you just use credit without the cash to pay it at the end of the month. There is an accountability process here. If you are struggling to make ends meet, you have to be aware of your own spending. We go out and have drinks with friends, and we spend money. We don’t have to do all that. We can drink water and have a good time and have a wine at home. Pay for a bottle instead of one glass at a restaurant. Or give it up all together. How do you stay on track? Do you have an accountability partner idea? Maybe we encourage each other.</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> Hugh just brought up a big idea. If you know anybody who has credit cards, ask them to add up three months’ worth of interest. How much did they pay in three months? When you see that, let’s say it’s $500 for three months. That is going to be $2,000 for the year. This is the game-changer. When you start thinking not only am I making the credit card company rich, but what could I be doing with $2,000 at the end of the year? Imagine what that looks like in your bank account. I find that when people do this task, they are able to go out and work maybe a little bit harder for the short term to pay off that debt, be it selling something or doing something extra so that money can flow into their account.</p> <p>The accountability is one of my favorite things to do. I still have two accountability partners. I suggest they cannot be a spouse or significant other. This is something you’re working on yourself first. Then you can come together. It’s not that you can’t tell them what you’re doing. Once upon a time, purchasing personal development courses was a weakness for me. Any time I saw it on TV or an event, any time I went to spend over $100, I needed to call my accountability partner and share that I wanted to buy this thing I could not live without. You tell each other what your goals are, what your weaknesses are, and then you call each other during that time. After I started talking about it, justifying why I needed to buy this, it was so silly. I really didn’t need it. An accountability partner helps you to stay on track on whatever financial goals you are. It helps you stay away from the shiny objects, and they are there to celebrate any time you achieve a milestone.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> These are all good personal growth habits. I wanted you on the show because we all bring our good and bad habits into the workplace. Many of our audience has a vision for changing people’s lives through a nonprofit they founded; sometimes they run it, or they get other people to run it. We want to identify these because the personal problems become systemic problems and a problem for the organization.</p> <p>In the nonprofit world, we are required to have a board of directors, and they oversee the money part. The same issues that you just talked about do exist in organizations. I have seen organizations who are broke, but there is no discipline or system or accountability or awareness of living beyond our means. We don’t have the money coming in, but we have to do these programs because they are compelling. You have to take care of home first. How do leaders bring these shortcomings into the business? How does that hurt everybody?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> That’s why I think you have to start at home. Find your money leaks, fix them. Once you start to do that, what happens is you begin to see other opportunities, whether it’s the saving $500 a month. Other opportunities begin to present themselves. Debt creates overwhelm and stress. When you are stressed and have to think about how you make those payments, there is that “Another payment, I have to write out ten checks.” I know people don’t do that anymore. Automatic pay, whatever that is. I need to pay ten bills versus three bills. That takes stress. When you are able to get that under control at home, those skillsets will transfer to your organization.</p> <p>You are able to come up with different ideas for a fundraiser. You are able to share about your project to that person you haven’t thought about sharing. It opens up more space for you to be able to be more productive and bring in more money to your nonprofit, or what I call a passion project.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Your passion project. What is your passion project?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> My passion project is to do workshops for high school students and college students. It’s interesting because I hear a lot from them about how they don’t care about the money, but they want to make a difference. I say, “In order to make a difference, you need the money.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Ryad, as a young person facing the life ahead, does this stimulate any questions for you, or do you want to comment on what you’re hearing?</p> <p><strong>Ryad Benabdelkader:</strong> Yes. By the way, I like the use of the credit card. Where I live, it’s not used very much. People love cash. They never use a credit card. Starting with my family and my parents, they just use cash in Algeria. But I like the idea of the credit card because you have to think about how to use the money twice. You won’t just buy it with cash. Each time my parents are just spending, spending, spending. If it was with a credit card, it would be better, and they know where to spend the money. I love the idea of credit cards. I hope we will apply it one day.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re in Algeria.</p> <p><strong>Ryad:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> How do you pay for things? Physical cash or digital payments.</p> <p><strong>Ryad:</strong> Physical cash.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I understand you were admitted to a college in France, so you will be going to France. How will this kind of information help you think about managing your expenses in college?</p> <p><strong>Ryad:</strong> I love the idea of credit cards because like this, I will manage and optimize how and where to spend the money without carrying cash. I would just be buying this and this. With a credit card, I will only buy things I need with limits. Each time you see the card, you think about money.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Before I go to Professor Hopkins, let’s talk about philanthropy. In order to be a philanthropist, you want to manage your time because we give time and talent, but we also give money. Why do you think it’s important to manage our own finances? Why do you think it’s important to have our house in order to be a better philanthropist? I will give you some time to think about it. Bob, what kinds of questions do you have today?</p> <p><strong>Bob Hopkins:</strong> Thank you very much. Unfortunately, I hate this topic. I hate this topic for me personally. I hate the words, “I can’t afford it.” In respect to you, I think your topic and what you tell the students is what they need because people need to manage money. I have never been able to do that unfortunately. Because of my elderly age, what you see on the horse is what I look like today. I am 50 years older than that person on that horse.</p> <p>I try to teach students to think positively instead of thinking, “I can’t have, and I don’t have.” I think that God gives us everything we need, and you just have to have a positive attitude about it. Unfortunately, I don’t manage money very well. For some reason, there always seems to be money when I need it. But I do understand, and it’s a good thing I don’t have children. I was thinking of you when you said, “What did I think of money when I was five years old?” I could always have what I needed. When I became an adult, my parents divorced, and I think one reason that happened is because of money. It’s not been one of my best topics.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Let me introduce you to my friend Chella. Bob is a colleague in Texas. Sandy, do you have any questions here?</p> <p><strong>Sandy Birkenmaier:</strong> My parents didn’t have a whole lot of money when I was growing up. When I was 10, they bought their first brand new car. They had no credit whatsoever because they’d always paid cash for everything. I learned pretty early that it was important to have a credit record at least. My dad died when I was 13, and we had even less money. I never had money when I was growing up unless there was something special I needed to buy. I had to justify then why it was that I needed money. I raised my kids that you do need to establish a credit record, but you need to not be using a credit card unless you are able to pay that credit card off. I pretty much managed to do that through adulthood. There have been times where things have gotten rough, and the credit cards have stacked up, but I got them paid off as quickly as possible. I think I have a pretty good relationship with money.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great. Sandy, thank you. Chella, that triggered a couple of interesting topics. Thank you for allowing me to have you comment. When you start an enterprise and apply for a credit card, they will check your personal credit. You are the founder of this and want to apply for a credit card. This is one area that is important for having your act together. Do you want to comment on that?</p> <p>Bob’s relationship with money, he’s a mover and shaker. He is an energy field. I am sure in his career with nonprofits, he has seen a challenge with money. It’s an attitude that comes from the top. Those are two areas for you to bounce off of.</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> Actually, Hugh, you mentioned earlier. When it comes to money and credit, people think about it as a negative thing. But you are proof that that’s not the case. You are able to get things for free. It’s about learning how to use the system. I have a friend who got a 32-inch flat-screen TV for free. She was a business owner, and she charged a lot, and she paid a lot. She accumulated so many points. That’s the thing about credit cards. We can use them to our advantage. We can use them just like Sandy, thank you for sharing, and Bob. We are going to come back to you. But you can use these credit cards to your advantage. They don’t have to be the bad word. This is a tool you can use to get free stuff. I personally have gotten gift cards. You can give them away for gifts. It can definitely work to your advantage.</p> <p>Know that the magic is you only need three types of credit that is being reported. All you need is three lines in order to build a credit score.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Three lines? Three credit cards?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> It could be a credit card. A car loan. Anything that reports. It cannot be paying rent. That is not reported. Utility bills, those are not reported. Those do not count. Three, be it two credit cards, a car loan. Three of them in order to build credit. That’s it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s all back to what you were talking about. It’s a matter of discipline or attitude and an awareness. I see a lot of people start a business or nonprofit, and they say, “We will make money and do these things.” How important is it to put a budget line item on there to mark our discipline for spending?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> I love that. I don’t like to use the b-word. The budget. If we start thinking about, “This is how I am creating a spending plan” instead. It sounds softer and not quite so rigid. But if you create a spending plan, then you have choice. You are spending this. This is how much we allocated for this and that. Create a spending plan, and stick to it. Sometimes, we want to do, and we want to serve. But if we don’t have the money coming in, it’s going to stop sooner or later. There is only so much you can do. Right now, I do know quite a few nonprofits where the money is just not coming in, and they may need to shut down.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s a challenge for the whole sector. Small businesses, churches, restaurants, nonprofits: we are challenged to how we do things. My wife and I have gone through a personal discipline of looking at expenses, and we spend a lot less than we used to. We eat really well, and we do pretty much anything we want to do, but we stay under budget every single month. Even though I have a number of credit cards, and a lot of credit lines, we primarily use one, so I don’t have to remember to pay the others. Everything comes on the 1st of the month, so there is a ritual in paying it all. 100% on-time payments, no interest charges. It’s been a good discipline that has energized us, and we have more money to support the charities we want to support. It feels good to be able to give some to other people.</p> <p>When you build your budget, let’s talk about the giving part of this. Part of philanthropy is money. Part of it is showing up. You talked about showing up earlier. It’s not just physically present, but it’s emotionally present. Where does giving come into our financial system?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> Giving should be up here with paying yourself, giving, then meeting your obligations, then down the line should be your wants. Not to deprive yourself. But I am saying if you put it in that order, I guarantee you that you will always have money for everything. It just shows up. The money always showed up for Bob.</p> <p>I agree with you. I think that God gives you all that you need. I am delighted, and I believe in thinking positive. Where I see the struggle is we want to think positive, and your students are saying that. It’s the monkey chatter behind the scenes from the money conversations we heard as children. We have that conflict. It’s about identifying it so that it’s minimized. I haven’t been able to make it go away entirely, but it is minimized, so the voice is softer and not as loud. It’s about making the voice softer.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That annoying voice that lies to us. A while back, we had Dr. David Gruder talking about the psychologist’s view of money shadow. Say more about how those negative scripts hurt us.</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> Because we believe them, right? I’ll share mine. My dad was a baker. He definitely shared that you have to work hard for your money. He did. He worked very hard. One time, he took two jobs. One paycheck went toward a down payment for the house. After we bought the house, he quit the job. So he did work hard for his money. He was incredibly successful and bought lots of great properties. I grew up that you have to work hard with money because my dad did physical work. He was a baker.</p> <p>When I did my very first paid speaking gig, I went through it. Here I am getting paid for something I love doing and for talking. I went through that psychology. It’s about what that five-year-old identifies with, and how we carry that along with us. Which is why I think identifying it and releasing it is where the key comes in. You’re no longer subject to it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You started talking about the lies we hear about money. What were those?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> You have to work hard. You have to struggle. Money does not grow on trees. And we can’t afford it. Those are the ones that keep coming up, no matter what income you’re in. We go back to whatever those adults have. The key here is that this is something- Think of it as a gift. These stories we have been told are a gift. Sometimes I think it comes from good intention. The adults want to prepare us for the future. They want to set us up for success. The stories they are giving you are a gift. Now give them back. It was a gift that you don’t have to take. It’s okay to give the gift back.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. I was formulating another question, but I got into what you were talking about. I can’t afford it. That’s code for, “I don’t like it,” or “I don’t understand what you’re asking me.” Isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> it is. It also could be simply that the adults didn’t understand. We go back to the adults. We go back. Even if you now look at the grocery store and see a mom and kids, if you hear the mom saying, “No, we can’t afford it,” what is that child’s interpretation of money? It’s not about the fact you said you can’t afford it, because maybe you can’t, or you don’t want to. Telling them you can’t afford it is about the interpretation the kid is walking away with.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re choosing to spend money on something else. It ceases to be a reason and becomes an excuse. There is no reason to pay for anything you want. Back to your list of wants and needs. Do you do this on a monthly basis, a weekly basis, in hindsight or forecast?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> I like the moving forward because you become more aware. We’re sure nothing slipped through the cracks. Keep track of your money for seven days. Any time you spend a dollar, you write it down. I like to divide the seven days into wants and needs. That’s it. I don’t analyze it or judge it. We just do a black and white list. You do this for four weeks. You will find some of the things that you are ready to let go from that list. What are some of the things, like my lunch person? Along with going out for lunch, she is putting $500 toward a down payment of a house, which was important to her. Once you find something you can replace it with, I take it Bob likes horses. Can we buy new toys for the horse? Does that work? Once you are able to find where the money is going and you choose something else to do with it, that is where you begin to shift and accumulate to have money for those things.</p> <p>You’re a perfect example, Hugh. You have a spending plan, but you are always able to do the things you want to do. It’s about having the choice to do what we want to do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A spending plan doesn’t mean you can’t do fun things. A whole lot of things don’t cost money, or very little money. Sometimes the free things are healthier anyway.</p> <p>What I see often is, especially in early-stage organizations, we make bad decisions on spending. We put wants ahead of the needs, like hiring staff prematurely until we have enough money in the bank to pay for that person for at least a year. We get out ahead of it. We assume the product will sell. We assume the donors will donate. We will assume we will get grants. So we hire in preparation for that. That is a bad habit we bring over with our personal life. We bully our way through here. Really, we need to have a foundation of revenue becoming revenue until we can get an executive director or a funding specialist on our staff. It’s good to get someone on staff who knows how to handle money.</p> <p>So it needs to be the right choice at the right stage, and we need to have a plan that can work, and an accounting system to track it. We can’t keep it in our head. We have a lot of systems that interface with our credit cards and bank accounts. It’s automatically kept up to date for us. It’s a good era to manage that.</p> <p>We get a chunk of money. A donor writes us a large check. Whoopee. We can go to work. We can hire people and buy equipment and rent space, and we run out of money. We haven’t looked at our forecast. A budget is a spending plan, but really what’s our cash flow projection? In business, we call it a burn rate. You are spending money and not selling things enough to offset the cost of doing business.</p> <p>It’s still a burn rate in the nonprofit world. We’re not offsetting the old revenue with new revenue. We are spending the money without creating new money. There is a relationship to money that comes from our personal life, that brings in good discipline and running an organization. I am not perfect in all of this. I am not here saying I am the model; I am here to say we are all struggling and need to improve.</p> <p>Do you want to comment on any of that? Talk a little bit about that. After that piece, we have a relationship with money, but our relationships with people impact our cash as well.</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> I could not have asked for a better set-up. That is why if you do the 30 days for your personal life and your business, you will know exactly what it takes to run your business on a monthly basis. When you get that $100,000 check, what if you are able to put away one to two years of monthly revenue on your business and spend the rest on projects? At least you know you’re covered for however many months. We don’t know when the next money will come in. That’s magical. You know that you at least will be able to continue to do that work for the amount of time. The more money that comes in, the better. But cover that base first.</p> <p>It’s a work in progress. Sometimes we will fall off track a little bit, and then you get back. But keeping track or finding out what it is you need on a monthly basis is magical because then you will always be prepared. It’s the ideal situation. Also, that peace of mind will come with it.</p> <p>Prematurely hiring someone. What if you are able to ask them to volunteer five hours, ten hours a week? Then you will get to know each other, see each other’s skillsets. When you are ready to hire them, they will be able to step in. It’s that intern, if you will. Then you know if they are a fit for your company. Asking for that volunteer is a great way to help you until you can get the money ready, but also find out if they are a fit for your company. If not, you will spend a lot of time and money investing in something that may not work. A volunteer is a great way to help you, and do what you want to do, which is help. You want to give back. But you don’t have to spend the money.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes. Relationships. We have mental capital, a product or service, and the work we do, and we want financial capital. But there is this relationship capital in between those.</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> I want you to think about money and relationship the same way you would do a business partner, a donor, or whatever. How you’re talking to that donor is the same way you should be talking to money. If you are telling money, “I don’t have enough. You’re never enough,” if that was a partner, and this is where the money relationship shifts. If you are in a relationship, because you are, we are in a relationship with money, whether we are readily able to admit it or not. Talk to money the same way you would talk about a potential donor. How you would treat that person is the same way. Treat the donor the same way as money and treat money the same way as the donor. This is a win-win for all. There is something for the donor to contribute to your organization. Think about money. Start dating money. Get to that point where you are ready to make a commitment and get married.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Find your money leaks. Develop a plan. Get an accountability partner. Don’t bleed yourself dry. Don’t deprive yourself of fun things. But be responsible.</p> <p>Your analogy with the person who was spending $750 and they cut it down to $250 on lunches, they can now save money for a house. In the world of nonprofits, we want to put away money to build an endowment fund. People do give to it specifically, but we can build it in more than one way. Having an endowment fund allows you to build interest that could pay for your operations expenses if it was large enough. That is a discipline for nonprofits.</p> <p>*Sponsored by EZCard*</p> <p>Chella, this has been useful stuff. This is not just theory, but applicable information. This is what we like to do: help leaders be better leaders. What closing thought would you like to leave people with?</p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> I truly encourage you to do the four-week challenge. It’s just four weeks to finding your money leaks and get your money journey on track. Love to hear from you. It’s been a pleasure and an honor to be here today. Every single person who has done this, their money conversation and relationship has shifted. Highly encourage you. It’s only four weeks. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Only four weeks. Your life is a downer if you don’t do it. Chella has been building her website. Chella Diaz, thank you for being our guest today on <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em></p> <p><strong>Chella:</strong> It’s been an honor, thank you.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Don't Stop Networking,  Just Do It Differently</title>
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      <description>Don't Stop Networking, Just Do It Differently Interview with Dr. Ivan Misner
 Dr. Ivan Misner is the Founder &amp; Chief Visionary Officer of BNI, the world’s largest business networking organization.  Founded in 1985 the organization now has over 9,400 chapters throughout every populated continent of the world.  Last year alone, BNI generated almost 12.3 million referrals resulting in $16.7 billion dollars worth of business for its members.
 Dr. Misner’s Ph.D. is from the University of Southern California.  He is a New York Times Bestselling author who has written 24 books including one of his latest books – Who’s in Your Room? He is also a columnist for Entrepreneur.com and has been a university professor as well as a member of the Board of Trustees for the University of La Verne.
 Called the “Father of Modern Networking” by CNN and one of the “Top Networking Experts” by Forbes, Dr. Misner is considered to be one of the world’s leading experts on business networking and has been a keynote speaker for major corporations and associations throughout the world.  He has been featured in the L.A. Times, Wall Street Journal, and New York. Times, as well as numerous TV and radio shows including CNN, the BBC and The Today Show on NBC.
 Among his many awards, he has been named “Humanitarian of the Year” by the Red Cross and was recently the recipient of the John C. Maxwell Leadership Award.  He is also proud to be the Co-Founder of the BNI Charitable Foundation.  He and his wife, Elisabeth, are now “empty nesters” with three adult children. Oh, and in his spare time, he is also an amateur magician and a black belt in karate.
 More information at:
 www.bni.com
 www.ivanmisner.com
  
 Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings everyone. This is Hugh Ballou. Welcome back to a new episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, where we talk to leaders and get their secrets to success, what they found that’s worked, what didn’t work, what’s their wisdom. Each week is a different person from a different place with a different experience, but they have a passion for excellence.
 Today’s guest is the founder of a really neat networking group called BNI. I will let him tell you a little bit about BNI. I have been a member over the years, and I have done networking as a nonprofit leader, as a church professional, and as a business professional. I find out that networking is as misunderstood as leadership is. There are a whole lot more varieties of what people call networking, but Ivan Misner stands alone as a person who has developed a whole new system for networking. Ivan, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange today.
 Ivan Misner: Hugh, thank you very much for having me here. You’re right. I am the founder of BNI. We have now 9,500 groups in more than 70 countries around the world. But what you may not know about me is I have spent some time in the nonprofit world. My second management job was as an assistant to the president of a nonprofit transportation business in Los Angeles called Commuter Transportation Services, Inc., which was rideshare before there was Uber. It was computers bigger than this room to set up rideshares. It was funded mostly by the government and private corporations. I worked there for a while. I have been on the boards of nonprofit organizations for more than 30 years. Lot of experience in the nonprofit world.
 Hugh: You know some of the challenges that nonprofits are facing. Today, even more challenges. I like to say that, in the words of my co-publisher of our magazine and friend Jeff Magee, we suck at networking. Suck is halfway to success.
 Ivan: I like it.
 Hugh: I stole that from him, but I give him attribution. We go into a crowded room and say, “Hey, it looks like the stock market. We are trying to bid higher than the next person.” But I found my experience in BNI to be relationship-building and also the people I met there, I still know. I’m not active in that anymore. Life has taken me different places. I moved; I didn’t get out purposefully. I found it is multi-dimensional.
 Let’s go back. When did you found BNI, and why?
 Ivan: I started BNI in January of 1985. I was a management consultant. I helped companies with hiring, training, and evaluating employees. I got most of my business through referrals. I was looking for referrals. I went to a lot of networking groups, and the groups I went to were just playing mercenary. I’d go to these meetings, and I felt like I’d been slimed, and I needed to go home and get a shower. Everyone was trying to sell to me. Everyone was trying to sell. I didn’t like that. I went to these other groups that were totally social; it was happy hour and hors d’oeuvres. Nobody was doing business. I didn’t like either of those groups. I wanted the business, but I didn’t want it to be mercenary. I wanted the social, but I wanted it to be relational. What I did was merge this concept of business and relational, and the glue that would hold it together is our principal core value of Givers Gain. This idea of that if I help you, you’ll help me, and we’ll all do better.
 Hugh, I’d like to tell you that I had this vision of an international organization, but I just wanted some referrals for my consulting practice. I wanted to help my friends. One thing led to another, and it turned into two, to 10, to 20 groups. By the time it hit 20 groups, I realized, and it happened in less than a year, that I had struck a chord in the business community. We don’t teach this in colleges and universities, even in business.
 I get it. You’re a nonprofit. You feel like you aren’t prepared. But business isn’t prepared either. We don’t teach this in school. That’s when it hit me that we needed to teach this and provide a platform for businesspeople. We now have 9,500 groups in more than 70 countries.
 Hugh: 9,500 groups. We have people from a couple countries here, Algeria and Texas.
 Ivan: Texas is its own country.
 Hugh: We are in the south. We think California is another country, but we are confused about Texas.
 Ivan: I grew up in California. It is another country.
 Hugh: It will fall off in the ocean someday. What my mission is is to help nonprofit leaders think out of their box to learn some really good business principles. Sometimes, in networking, we do the inverse. We don’t want to ask anybody for anything. Or we come from a position of need. “Oh, I need this. Help us.” Tell me about the framing that nonprofit leaders, we have clergy, we have executive directors, we have board chairs, we have people in what we like to call the for-purpose, not for-profit, community. What is the mindset we need to have as we approach networking?
 Ivan: I think the first mindset, and it’s something I teach everyone and I think applies in the nonprofit world just as much as in the for-profit, is the foundation of networking is something I call the VCP process: Visibility, Credibility, Profitability. You first have to be visible. People have to know who you are and what you do. Then you move from visibility to credibility. People know who you are, what you do, and that you’re good at it. That takes a long time to go from visibility to credibility. But when you get to credibility, then you can move to profitability, where people know who you are, what you do, that you’re good at it, and they are willing to refer people to you. They are willing to bring people to you, whether it be a for-profit enterprise or a nonprofit enterprise. They are willing to refer you, support you, help you. That takes time. Networking is much more about farming than it is about hunting. It’s about cultivating relationships with other business professionals. I think this fits the nonprofit world well, but I don’t think the nonprofit world knows that. They keep thinking they’re different. The VCP process applies to both.
 Hugh: Absolutely. We have this brilliance we can offer. We feed people, we clothe people, we help people get jobs. We do all this philanthropic work. That is our mental capital. Over here, we want financial capital. There is a space in between where you do what you’re talking about. It’s relationship capital.
 Ivan: It’s social capital, yeah.
 Hugh: We build that. It’s relationship. It’s trust. It’s being social.  I don’t care if you’re an introvert or not, and it takes energy away from you. It’s still important for the leader and the board. Tell us about your board experience. Did you help them think about networking?
 Ivan: Let’s talk for a moment about, before you asked about the board, you were talking about- The gray hair, things are slipping my mind. Yeah, I have been on a number of boards. I am an emeritus member of the board of directors for the Leroy Haynes Children’s Center in the Los Angeles area. I was on their board for almost 20 years. I have been on the board of trustees for the University of La Verne. I am presently sitting on the board of directors for the Austin Boys and Girls Club. I started my own foundation, so obviously I am on the board of my own foundation. I have had a lot of work in the nonprofit world for a long time. The nonprofit world does a lot of really good work.
 Hugh: Yeah, I was talking about trust and having a conversation. It’s a process to go from what we got to offer to people writing a check.
 Ivan: Yeah. Thank you. When you have that, there are a number of things that one can- You talked about introvert and extrovert. That is the thing I wanted to touch on. A lot of people assume you have to be an extrovert to be good at networking. That’s not true. What’s really funny- This is absolutely a true story, and I wrote about this about eight years ago on my blog at IvanMisner.com. I have more than 1,000 posts, and I have been blogging there for more than 13 years.
 One day, I was talking to my wife. We weren’t quite empty nesters; our kids were in high school. They were at practice. It’s just my wife and me. It was great. This is what it was going to be like. I said something to her, “You know me, honey, I’m an extrovert.” She was like, “No, you’re not.” I said, “What do you mean I’m not? Of course I’m an extrovert. I run the world’s largest business networking organization. I can’t be an introvert.” I have been married 32 years. I don’t know if you’re married or not, but this is so husband/wife relationship. She’s like, “Okay, honey, that’s what you think. That’s fine. You can be an extrovert.” “No, it’s not what I think. I am a keynote speaker. You can’t be an introvert.” “Whatever you think.” “Why do you think I’m an introvert?” She had been reading this book and telling me the differences between them. Then she said something that hit me, “Extroverts love to go out to recharge their batteries. Introverts want to hide and get away from everybody.“ “Okay, that definitely sounds like me.”
 But I am not an introvert. So I walk into my office at home in California, and I got on the Internet and found a test to take. I was going to show her that I am not an introvert. So I take this test. True story. I take this test, and it comes back with “Congratulations, Ivan. You are an introvert who is a situational extrovert.” I looked further, and it said, “When you are talking about something that you are very knowledgeable about, when you are in your wheelhouse, when you are with close friends, you come across as an extrovert. Otherwise, you are an introvert. So go apologize to your wife.” It didn’t say that last part, but I did. I said, “Hey, I can’t believe this, but you’re right. I am an introvert.”
 Even before I discovered that, I told people introverts can be great at networking. The reason why they can be is that they’re much more likely to listen than to speak. A good networker is like a good host, an interviewer. Hugh, you’re asking me questions and letting me answer. That’s what a good networker is. A good networker asks questions and lets the person speak. Extroverts love talking. What is their favorite subject? Themselves. So people assume that an extrovert is a great networker. That’s not true. They are a great networker if they have learned to slow down and be an interviewer. Ask questions just like you are.
 Hugh: Take a note. Don’t use your personality type as an excuse.
 Ivan: That’s exactly right.
 Hugh: Sometimes, Myers-Briggs and many of those instruments, I am way over on E. When I am in a group where I am not the subject matter expert, I can flip over, and I am quiet. I am a situational introvert. That is a good term. It really is about our processing and our energy. I gain energy. I am a conductor. I finish a two-hour rehearsal, and I am raring to go. I have adrenaline. Other people have to go to bed after a social event. You’re so true. When an introvert speaks, they have thought it out, and then, boom, it comes out as a complete thought. Extroverts just blurt it out. It’s in process. Our assumption is we are going to have a conversation.
 The important thing that rose in your conversation to my attention was that we are talking to potential donors. The scenario you just described, we are networking. We want to listen to them. What are they interested in? We want to go up to the ATM, put in a card, and get some cash. Guess what? They don’t want to be an ATM. They want to find out what they’re interested in. That is a form of networking, isn’t it?
 Ivan: It is. And sometimes you find out it’s not a good fit, but you want to find people who it’s a good fit. Their values and vision on the impact that they want to make in their community is congruent, resonant with yours. Where you can find those levers that you can pull that are resonant with their goals in life, the things they want to make a difference in, then you have the right person. You have to find out. You have to learn about that individual before you can start trying to pull money out of them.
 Hugh: Yes. In the social benefit world of churches and nonprofits, we receive money because we provide value.
 Ivan: Yes. But isn’t that the same in business?
 Hugh: It’s all the same. People buy from us because we give them value. There is a trust level there. There is a monetary exchange. It’s an exchange of energy, trust. There is lots of ways to think of it. Having conversations, you’re so right. It’s 10% talking. When I studied coaching, they said, “Coaching is 90% listening. Most of the other 10% is listening.” I have had clients who solved great problems that they have given me credit for when I was a listener.
 Ivan: And asking questions as a coach.
 Hugh: Yes. Absolutely. Listening actively. We might already be nervous when approaching a donor or in front of a group or a new network of people. What is your advice to nonprofit leaders? We do have a mix of people on here. Some people have a nonprofit and a business. Some people have a church or synagogue and a business. Some people have only one or the other. What is your advice for people as they are approaching, let’s say, a new group opportunity to network with other professionals? We have some anxiety or apprehension or concern about that. What is your advice to get the right mindset as we go into an opportunity to meet new people?
 Ivan: The right mindset is about building relationships with people. It’s not as you said about transaction. It’s about the relationship. In one of my books, I wrote something you might find interesting. In a book I wrote called Truth of Delusion, where I ask questions, I say, “Is this statement true, or is it false? Is it a delusion?” One of the statements we made in the book, “You can network anywhere, any time, any place, even at a funeral.” Is that truth or delusion? Of course, the overwhelming majority say, “No, you cannot network at a funeral.”
 Here is our answer. The answer is it’s a truth. But here is the key. This is important. If you hear that answer, you have to hear this first sentence after that answer. You must always honor the event. You don’t go to a funeral passing out your business card. That’s completely inappropriate. But if networking, as I believe it is, is about building relationships with people, then there is no place that is inappropriate to build a relationship.
 Let me give you an example. I was at a church function years ago, one of those potluck things in the afternoon. Everybody brings in meals. Lot of fellowship. People are talking. I saw a business guy who I wanted to get to know. He was very successful in the area. I struck up a conversation with him. One of the questions that I suggest people ask, after you say, “Tell me about your business. Who are you? What kind of clients are you looking for?” all the normal stuff. A question I like to ask, but you can’t start with this, is, “What are some of the challenges you run into in this business?” He gave me an answer I’d never heard before.
 He said, “Business is awesome right now. My biggest challenge is I want to give back to the community. But sometimes my years are up, and some years are not up as much. I am having good years one after another, but some are incredible. I don’t want to give away all that money. But I am not big enough to create my own foundation. I don’t know how to deal with that.” I said, “Have you ever heard of a community foundation?” He said, “No. What are those?” I said, “There are a lot in Southern California. There is the world’s largest called the California Community Foundation. You can create a fund under the community foundation under your own name. John Doe Foundation. It’s part of the California Community Foundation. There are restrictions on the kinds of things you can do, but they are pretty reasonable.” Back then, it only took $10,000 to open a fund. It may be more now. He said, “Oh my goodness. I have never heard of one of those. Hang on. Here’s my card. Would you mind? Do you know anybody there?” “Yeah, I know the VP of Development.” “Would you introduce me?” “I’d love to introduce you.”
 That’s what networking is. You can network anywhere, any time, any place, even in church, if you honor the event. To me, honoring the event is about making connections with people. If you can help someone in some way, then that’s what networking is. He was in a business that wasn’t relevant to BNI. If I had wanted to call him, if I had called him next week and said, “Hey, it was great talking to you.” By the way, I introduced him to the VP, and he opened up an account like that. If I had called him a week later and asked him to get together to learn more about what he did, do you think he would have taken my call and met with me? Yeah. Why? Because I made the beginning of a relationship. We stayed connected through church. We never did business together. That’s what networking is. It’s about helping people. It comes back around to you.
 Hugh: That is a great story. Givers Gain. What is that? That summarizes BNI. How did you arrive at that? We tend to use too many words. It’s brilliant in its simplicity.
 Ivan: It’s predicated on a theory in social capital called the law of reciprocity. The law of reciprocity basically is what goes around comes around. If you put things out to the world, it will come back to you. To me, that phrase was the simplest way of explaining what could be a somewhat complex concept. The concept of giving is actually more complicated than it sounds because when you really get to it, people start asking, “When do you know that you’re giving too much and not getting anything in return? How do you ask? Do you give, give, give and never ask?” There are subtleties and complexities to the concept of Givers Gain. The bottom line is you have to give to people before you expect them to give you anything. Giving might be a referral to someone else, not selling your business, but giving them ideas, connections.
 Hugh: Law of reciprocity. Thank you, Napoleon Hill. The problem with common sense is it’s not very common.
 Ivan: It’s not commonly applied.
 Hugh: No. I’ve been doing this kind of work in the church for 40 years as a music director. People thought I was smart, so I served a 12,000-member church, so they asked me to come do board development and leadership development with them. I developed my third career out of that. I really struggle with how things have changed so dramatically. The work has gotten more and more important over those last 32 years I have been doing this work. It’s more important now than ever before in history. In this changed world, in this new normal, it’s up to us as leaders to set the bar for the new culture and the new engagement. What are your thoughts about how things have changed, and how networking is important in this new time?
 Ivan: Listen, networking has always been important. What I have done is codify it and organize it and structure it and explain it in a way that I think is useful. But it’s always been important. In terms of leadership, there are a couple of concepts that I was taught by- I did my doctoral work at USC under Dr. Warren Bennis, which was in his day the world’s leading expert on leadership. That mantle has been handed over to John C. Maxwell, who is an amazing man. I have had the opportunity to meet him on a number of occasions. Truly holds the crown of the expert on leadership today. But one of the things I learned from Warren when I studied with him was something that I think applies today and will apply 100 years from now in leadership.
 Two concepts. One is contextual intelligence. The second is adaptive capacity. Contextual intelligence. This is something I don’t hear talked about much in leadership other than Warren. You really need to understand the context of the challenge. The context and the players will determine elements of how you address a particular challenge. So you really have to understand the context of this particular problem because the same problem in a different place might not have the same context. It might not play out exactly the same.
 I will give you an example. The second thing is adaptive capacity. One must have the ability to adapt to the changing contextual intelligence that you are confronted with. We talked about these concepts, and I understood them. I saw it come out and play out in the real world at the university where I was on the board. Warren was speaking. He did an event. I invited him to speak at an event at the University of La Verne. He spoke. It was right before the new president had taken office. He sat there in front of a big audience and said, “What do you guys think of the new president? She’s amazing, isn’t she?” Everyone thought she was fantastic. She hadn’t started yet, but she had been on the campus off and on for more than a month. He said, “Is she prepared, or what?” “Yeah, she’s completely prepared.” He said, “From day one, everything will come into place.” “Yeah!” He leaned into the microphone and said, “You’re all crazy.” We were shocked. He said, “She’s prepared, yeah. But the minute she walks in, there are going to be changes to the environment that nobody predicted. And so her ability to adapt will be critical in the success in her role in this university.”
 Within 30-60 days after she came in, the university lost its preliminary or interim accreditation for the bar association’s law school. Yeah. She had nothing to do with it. She’d been there for only a month, less than two. There was an interim accreditation, and there was one more step to get to fully accredited. Lost it. Completely lost it. She had one year to regain interim accreditation, or it would be lost permanently. Well, you know that requires incredible adaptive capacity. It also requires contextual intelligence. The law school was on a track. It was doing fine. She had to understand the whole board. She had to see the entire chessboard of the university and see where things were going and what she thought was going to be okay actually wasn’t. Understanding that a lot of resources had to go to that. A lot of adapting had to take place. That was all part of the leadership process that I think is something that 100 years from now will still be just as important, no matter what the technology or situation. Understanding the context and being able to adapt are key elements of a successful leader. By the way, the university is fully accredited as a law school now.
 Hugh: Three Feet from Gold, Greg Reid writes about how we don’t give up. You’re right there. Edison said, “Most people give up just before they succeed.”
 You and I were talking a bit as we were launching the live feed. We haven’t been on airplanes in a while. One person said we’re finding out now which meetings could really be held by email instead of having to be there. I haven’t been too sad about cancelling some of my trips. It’s a whole new world of working from home. I miss the interaction and the chemistry of being present, but I am just as busy as when I was traveling, maybe more. How do we network from home? How do we work from home? We are in the business, and we need to have positive cash flow to do our work. How do we function at home, especially now?
 Ivan: First of all, I think that we will go back to meeting people in person. That’s not going to completely disappear. The genie is out of the bottle a little bit. What I foresee is some kind of hybrid where you will see a lot more done online and a lot done in person.
 As you know, with BNI, we are talking about 9,500 in-person meetings every week. We had to turn on a dime. We flipped within weeks to 9,500 online meetings. We now run online meetings. When we are out of this great pause (I like to call it that), I think there will be still some groups who may want to continue to meet online. But I think we will end up with some kind of hybrid system.
 In the meantime, while we are working at home, there are a number of things that are important to know. First of all, I started BNI out of my house. I have worked from home for most of the last 37 years. When I had the consulting business, I remember going to the city to get a business license. This was in 1983. They were like, “Where’s your office?” I said, “I work from home.” “Yeah, you can’t get a business license.” 1983, you could not get a business license. “That’s not a business.” “Yeah, I’m a consultant. I don’t need an office space.” “You can’t have a license.” I could not get a business license from the city because I was working from home. Things have changed a lot since then.
 A couple years later, by the way, you were able to get a business license. I started BNI in my home, and I have been working off and on for the last 37 years. Now my office is in Charlotte, North Carolina, but I work here in Austin, Texas. This is my home office I am talking to you from.
 There are a number of things I could recommend. I hate the phrase “social distancing.”
 Hugh: Thank you.
 Ivan: I do. We need to be more social than ever. It’s physical distancing. It’s not social distancing. I believe we need to be more social than ever. You start with that. Then some of the things I talk about in working from home is you should have a dedicated workspace. I have a nice office. I didn’t always have a separate office. Sometimes it was in the corner of the dining room or in a basement. I remember when I got kicked out of one bedroom because we were about to have a child, and I got kicked out of the second bedroom because we were going to have a second child, so I had to move out into an office. As we grew, then I had office space in my homes. I have worked from home most of the last 35 years. Have a dedicated workspace, even if it is a corner of the room. Were you going to say something?
 Hugh: No. I was just wondering how long it took you to figure out why you kept having children.
 Ivan: Yeah. I figured that out. It was planned. My wife was the most amazing woman to deal with the pregnancy. She loved being pregnant. It was quite an experience with her.
 Here’s another one. Don’t get distracted by bright, shiny objects. I keep this here by my desk because I am always talking to entrepreneurs, and they are always chasing bright, shiny objects. You want to be successful at whatever you’re doing, whether it’s for nonprofit or for-profit? Here’s an important key. Do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times. It doesn’t have to be six. It could be five or seven. Do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times. What I see businesspeople do is they constantly chase new things rather than really have a program and work it and work it and work it and work it until it becomes successful. If I have any superpower at all as a businessperson, it is that I am a dog with a bone. I am very persistent. I am good doing six things a thousand times. I think people who do that are much more likely to be successful.
 Here are a couple of other suggestions. No social media. Now, if it’s business, if it’s for your nonprofit organization, that’s fine. But no cat videos during the middle of the day. They are forbidden. Something happens to the space/time continuum when you get on Facebook, and you end up on some YouTube video an hour later. How did I get here? Stay off of social media unless it’s related to your organization.
 Right now, more than ever, micro-dose the news. Micro-dose the news. I see people who are overdosing on the news. Don’t do that. It’s so easy to do from home. Don’t do it. All you see is doom and gloom and the end of the world.
 Don’t get frozen by fear. Let fear focus you, not put you in a state of fear. Get focused by fear. Don’t get frozen by fear.
 Hugh: As a performer, I had to learn that. When you get on stage, you have all of these people staring at you. You turn around with a baton and 75 musicians and 200 singers. It’s like, Ooh. They are all looking at me.
 I have to tell you, when Berny had me speak on stage, it’s a whole lot easier than conducting. But people are staring at you, so you have to have a whole different mindset. There is believing in self that is important, no matter what we are doing here. We have our core values and our guiding principles of how we use those values. We have something worthy, but working, like Jim Rohn used to say, work on yourself harder than you work on your business. I can’t tell you how perfectly aligned everything you have talked about today is with what we teach at SynerVision. I have come to call what we are doing now anti-social distancing. I don’t know what brilliant person came up with the term, but it is physical distancing. We are more social than we have been before.
 Ivan: Yeah, I think so.
 Hugh: I have a blog on that. I am in central western Virginia in the Appalachians. It’s lovely this time of year. Ivan is in Austin, Texas. He has given us lots of bites of wisdom today. You could be listening to this during the isolation we have, semi-quarantine, whatever we call this.
 Ivan: The great pause.
 Hugh: It’s like a music, you have a GP, a grand pause. I teach my leadership principles. One of them is value the rests, which makes everything else work. There are rests in music for a purpose. It’s not absence of sound; it’s a clarity place. I am finding this is a great time for clarity. You have that shiny thing. What is it? It’s a jewel.
 Ivan: I don’t remember where I got it. As soon as I saw it, I knew I had to have it.
 Hugh: You’re under my control. Watch this. Nonprofit leaders are social entrepreneurs. We all ought to be social entrepreneurs because we have the triple bottom line: people, planet, and profit. People ask me, “Do all you entrepreneurs suffer from insanity?” I say, “Heck no. We enjoy it.” There is this certain possibility mindset that we have. We have this vision. It’s important, and the stuff you talk about leadership, I quote John Maxwell and Bennis in my writings and books and online courses.
 Working at home is the new normal, and the new normal going forward is going to be a hybrid. Many of our for-purpose social benefit communities have to be out there feeding people. I am in Lynchburg, Virginia. We have the highest per-capita poverty in Virginia, like 25%, with 28 agencies who feed people. It’s important for them to network amongst themselves, which they are not really doing. There is a space for us to learn about networking that is critical. It comes from leadership. Nothing happens without leadership. I quote John Maxwell a lot.
 There is network, a verb and a noun. Bob has a question. Let me let Bob talk. Bob Hopkins from Dallas, Texas. Why don’t you ask your question in person?
 Bob Hopkins: Okay. Hi, Ivan. Bob Hopkins here. By the way, that picture you see was 40 years ago. I am an old man like you. I have white hair.
 Ivan: I’m just glad I have hair. I don’t care that it’s white. I’m just glad I still have it.
 Bob: I have lots of it, too. Thank you. I am a college professor. I teach in Dallas. I taught at UTA for about 10 years, and now I am teaching junior colleges. I teach speech communications, and I teach networking.
 Ivan: Let me clarify my statement. It’s usually not full-time professors on these webinars. Let me clarify my statement. I only know of one university in the United States that has a core curriculum university course on business networking. That is the University of Michigan, taught by Dr. Wayne Baker. That is the only university in the United States. Do teachers talk about networking during class? I think they teach mostly the wrong stuff, not necessarily the right stuff. There are no courses on networking to speak of in the world.
 Bob: I know that. Because I think networking is so important, I couldn’t have done what I have done or be where I am without who I knew. Of course, I tell my students, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know.
 Ivan: Wait. Let me add to that. I don’t think it’s what you know or who you know. It’s how well you know each other that counts because the question is, do I know that person well enough that I could pick up the phone and call them? Would they take my call? If I asked them for a favor, would they be willing to do the favor? It’s not just knowing somebody; it’s knowing them well. That’s the key. I’m sorry. I keep interrupting you. I’ll stop.
 Bob: The rest of the story is I have them write 250 people that they know down, whittle it down to 25 who are in their circle of influence that they can rely on, and that they do know, and they consider their mentors and counselors and parents and grandparents, etc. They have to write them a letter. The letter is, “I love you so much. I want us to continue this. I want to have your back and you have mine, so I want you to know you are in my circle of influence.” What you said is true. I like what you said about how well do I know these people? That is the important thing.
 My question is: Why not? Why are we not teaching this? Why is the academia? Is it because they have never been in business and don’t know the importance of it?
 Ivan: That is my answer. Are you a full-time professor or adjunct?
 Bob: I’m adjunct.
 Ivan: So you know. I was an adjunct professor for 16 years. You know that it’s the full-time tenured professors who control the curriculum. Even the president of the university does not control it. When you are talking about business professors, it’s the full-time tenured professors who determine the classes. I really get hate mail when I say this. Most full-time tenured professors in business have never run a business.
 Bob: I know.
 Ivan: That’s why. You can get a Bachelor’s in marketing and not know how to sell. We don’t teach sales techniques. Most business professors, it’s like heaven forbid I should get my hands dirty and make a sale. They love social media. They will teach social media. They love advertising because you don’t have to get your hands dirty and sell. They don’t teach sales, closing sales, business networking. It’s because it’s taught mostly by full-time tenured professors. Wayne Baker is the only exception I have ever seen in the last 30 years in Michigan.
 Bob: The reason I am here is because Hugh and I have connected because I ran nonprofit organizations for 35 years before I started teaching college. I have only been teaching for about 10 years. The nonprofit sector is something I also teach. I have a book called Philanthropy Misunderstood. I teach my students philanthropy. I was called by my dean at one of these universities who said to me, “Bob, nonprofits are not businesses. Why are you teaching nonprofits in your classroom?”
 Hugh: Oh my. Ivan, I don’t know if you can see my screen. But this is Bob’s book. It’s a brilliant book. There are world-changing, life-changing nonprofits. He has had a long career.
 Ivan: Bob, I agree with you. I think the lessons learned in business and in nonprofits are oftentimes, at the very least, overlapping, if not the same.
 Bob: I was excited to know who you are and that you are the one who founded networking. Thank you.
 Ivan: Well, I founded BNI. Networking has been around for a long time. I organized it.
 Hugh: Bob, thank you for coming in. Let me prevail upon your secrecy there. Tell him the name of your horse before you leave.
 Bob: That horse there is not the one that I have now, but the one I have now is named Philanthropy.
 Ivan: I like it.
 Hugh: He’s all in.
 Ivan: Bob, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
 Bob: I’m in Dallas. Once this settles down and the traffic isn’t too bad, I will drive to Austin to meet you.
 Ivan: All right. You got it. Be well.
 Hugh: Bob is a peach of a guy. I went to Dallas. My wife is a clergy graduate of Perkins School of Theology. The week before the airlines quit taking us places. I had a guest who founded Barefoot Winery. They said, “You have to meet Bob,” and we have connected and have been doing amazing stuff since then.
 Ivan: That’s networking.
 Hugh: Yes. They accidentally founded a winery. They were marketing people. Great story. I have had some wonderful people in six years on this show. You’re giving us really useful, helpful nuggets. This is so good. To find out about BNI, go to BNI.com. And IvanMisner.com.
 Ivan: IvanMisner.com. I have 13 years of content up there. It’s all free. Check it out.
 Hugh: Love it. Ivan is the man. He has been such an influencer over those many years. Let’s talk about the difference between network as a verb and network as a noun.
 Ivan: How would you define it?
 Hugh: Having a network, those are people who you have done due diligence with. You know who they are. I spent 40 years in church ministry, music ministry. I never had lunch alone. I always met with somebody. I got the most useful information, and they got information because they asked me questions, “What do you do anyway? We see you an hour on Sunday. What do you do the rest of the week?” I realized the Ballou 10/90 rule. The 10% is what you see, and 90% is what you don’t see that makes that 10% possible. Networking is an activity to connect and meet people and to share and to provide value for people. A network is the people who you know. What do you think?
 Ivan: That’s a good definition. Both of them are really, if it’s done right, are about relationship-building. It’s about the relationships you create.
 Hugh: Absolutely. Leadership is based on relationship. Communication is founded in relationship. The flow of money is based on relationship.
 Ivan: Oftentimes.
 Hugh: Let’s talk about something that is not money flow. Let’s talk about boards. I am going off being the president of the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra board. I was a guest conductor. They elected me when I wasn’t looking to be president. I am going off, and they are doing this board nominating process. This is networking also. We don’t know how to make the ask for money or for people. I love it when people ask, “Would you serve on this committee or this board? It’s not a lot of work.” You know they’re lying to you. How do we come forward? You’ve been on boards. It may be hard to get the right people on the board. How do we frame the conversation when we want to invite people to consider a board position?
 Ivan: The first thing you do is you go to them with someone who knows them really well. If that’s you, that’s great. Otherwise, I think the third party testimonial is incredibly powerful, and when you have somebody who says- Let’s say Bob says to me, “Ivan, you really should be active in Hugh’s organization. Hugh has done an amazing job. He has created this organization that has done this thing. That should resonate with you because you’re interested-“ My emphasis in nonprofits tends to be children and education. I believe children represent about 20% of today’s population, but they represent 100% of the future. It’s about children and educating them. If he can make that linkage, then he has connected the two of us. Then we can have that dialogue about how I might be able to help you or you might be able to help me. The third-party endorsement process is the best way to get donors, board members, committee members. It’s easier for me to say no to somebody I don’t know, trust, or like, than it is to say no to someone I know, trust, or like.
 Hugh: Ah. Point well taken. That’s sage advice. I can see why you’ve been very successful over the years. Starting a business, growing a business, and maintaining the viability of a business are three different things, aren’t they?
 Ivan: Oh yeah. Very much so. An entrepreneur needs to figure out pretty quickly, or even in a nonprofit, when you’re in that nonprofit in whatever role, if you want to be happy with what you do, it’s very important that you work in your flame and not in your wax. Let me explain that. When you’re working in your flame, you’re excited, you’re on fire, people can hear it in the way you speak, they can see it in the way you act. When you’re working in your wax, it takes all your energy away, people can hear it in your voice, and they can see it in the way you act.
 Over time, the things that are your flame- Let me speak for myself. The things that were my flame when I started BNI are no longer my flame. Many of those things, I don’t want to do them anymore. It’s very important to learn the skillset of how to delegate effectively, how to select the right people, delegate effectively, put them in charge of that area so that you can continue to work in your flame and not in your wax. 90% of my time is in my flame. This is the fourth interview I’ve done today. I’m sort of the Colonel Sanders of BNI now. I am the spokesman for networking.
 Hugh: Love it. Tell us about your nonprofit that you founded.
 Ivan: I started the Misner Family Foundation and the BNI Foundation. Two different foundations we have created. Both focus on children and education. Misner Family Foundation is a private foundation for my family, supporting children and education. The BNI Foundation primarily supports children and education, and it’s the charitable arm of what BNI does. We do both activities to help kids locally as well as funding grants and things like that locally. BNIFoundation.org, you can find the website for it.
 Hugh: BNIFoundation.org. Think about a closing thought or a tip or challenge you’d like to give people who are listening to this. It could be years from now. We have been doing these interviews for six years, Ivan. We’ve had some incredible people.
 *Sponsor message from EZCard*
 Ivan Misner, I don’t know why you said yes to come on to my show today, but I’m glad you did. I wrote to you on LinkedIn, we had a short exchange, and you agreed. What thought or challenge or tip do you want to leave people with today?
 Ivan: We are living through challenging times. I don’t know what our future holds, but I do know we can influence it. I do know we can make a difference in it. I also know that your mindset is so incredibly important. I think hope is much more powerful than fear. Fear paralyzes us. It freezes us. When we are afraid of what the future will hold or what will happen, we just freeze. What we need to do right now more than ever is focus, not freeze. That focus can come with hope. The only other thing you need to add to it is action. You have hope, and you take action. When you do those things, you can come out of times like this, and you can make it through times like this. Be creative. Be innovative. Think about what you can do. My nonprofit, the Austin Boys &amp; Girls Club, that I am on the board of, they created something called Club on the Go, where you can come by and pick up food that they package so there is still that social distancing. Be creative. Have hope. And influence your future. That is my closing thought.
 Hugh: Ivan Misner, you are a gift to all of us. Thank you for being on The Nonprofit Exchange today.
  
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      <pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2020 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
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      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dr. Ivan Misener</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Don't Stop Networking, Just Do It Differently Interview with Dr. Ivan Misner
 Dr. Ivan Misner is the Founder &amp; Chief Visionary Officer of BNI, the world’s largest business networking organization.  Founded in 1985 the organization now has over 9,400 chapters throughout every populated continent of the world.  Last year alone, BNI generated almost 12.3 million referrals resulting in $16.7 billion dollars worth of business for its members.
 Dr. Misner’s Ph.D. is from the University of Southern California.  He is a New York Times Bestselling author who has written 24 books including one of his latest books – Who’s in Your Room? He is also a columnist for Entrepreneur.com and has been a university professor as well as a member of the Board of Trustees for the University of La Verne.
 Called the “Father of Modern Networking” by CNN and one of the “Top Networking Experts” by Forbes, Dr. Misner is considered to be one of the world’s leading experts on business networking and has been a keynote speaker for major corporations and associations throughout the world.  He has been featured in the L.A. Times, Wall Street Journal, and New York. Times, as well as numerous TV and radio shows including CNN, the BBC and The Today Show on NBC.
 Among his many awards, he has been named “Humanitarian of the Year” by the Red Cross and was recently the recipient of the John C. Maxwell Leadership Award.  He is also proud to be the Co-Founder of the BNI Charitable Foundation.  He and his wife, Elisabeth, are now “empty nesters” with three adult children. Oh, and in his spare time, he is also an amateur magician and a black belt in karate.
 More information at:
 www.bni.com
 www.ivanmisner.com
  
 Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings everyone. This is Hugh Ballou. Welcome back to a new episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, where we talk to leaders and get their secrets to success, what they found that’s worked, what didn’t work, what’s their wisdom. Each week is a different person from a different place with a different experience, but they have a passion for excellence.
 Today’s guest is the founder of a really neat networking group called BNI. I will let him tell you a little bit about BNI. I have been a member over the years, and I have done networking as a nonprofit leader, as a church professional, and as a business professional. I find out that networking is as misunderstood as leadership is. There are a whole lot more varieties of what people call networking, but Ivan Misner stands alone as a person who has developed a whole new system for networking. Ivan, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange today.
 Ivan Misner: Hugh, thank you very much for having me here. You’re right. I am the founder of BNI. We have now 9,500 groups in more than 70 countries around the world. But what you may not know about me is I have spent some time in the nonprofit world. My second management job was as an assistant to the president of a nonprofit transportation business in Los Angeles called Commuter Transportation Services, Inc., which was rideshare before there was Uber. It was computers bigger than this room to set up rideshares. It was funded mostly by the government and private corporations. I worked there for a while. I have been on the boards of nonprofit organizations for more than 30 years. Lot of experience in the nonprofit world.
 Hugh: You know some of the challenges that nonprofits are facing. Today, even more challenges. I like to say that, in the words of my co-publisher of our magazine and friend Jeff Magee, we suck at networking. Suck is halfway to success.
 Ivan: I like it.
 Hugh: I stole that from him, but I give him attribution. We go into a crowded room and say, “Hey, it looks like the stock market. We are trying to bid higher than the next person.” But I found my experience in BNI to be relationship-building and also the people I met there, I still know. I’m not active in that anymore. Life has taken me different places. I moved; I didn’t get out purposefully. I found it is multi-dimensional.
 Let’s go back. When did you found BNI, and why?
 Ivan: I started BNI in January of 1985. I was a management consultant. I helped companies with hiring, training, and evaluating employees. I got most of my business through referrals. I was looking for referrals. I went to a lot of networking groups, and the groups I went to were just playing mercenary. I’d go to these meetings, and I felt like I’d been slimed, and I needed to go home and get a shower. Everyone was trying to sell to me. Everyone was trying to sell. I didn’t like that. I went to these other groups that were totally social; it was happy hour and hors d’oeuvres. Nobody was doing business. I didn’t like either of those groups. I wanted the business, but I didn’t want it to be mercenary. I wanted the social, but I wanted it to be relational. What I did was merge this concept of business and relational, and the glue that would hold it together is our principal core value of Givers Gain. This idea of that if I help you, you’ll help me, and we’ll all do better.
 Hugh, I’d like to tell you that I had this vision of an international organization, but I just wanted some referrals for my consulting practice. I wanted to help my friends. One thing led to another, and it turned into two, to 10, to 20 groups. By the time it hit 20 groups, I realized, and it happened in less than a year, that I had struck a chord in the business community. We don’t teach this in colleges and universities, even in business.
 I get it. You’re a nonprofit. You feel like you aren’t prepared. But business isn’t prepared either. We don’t teach this in school. That’s when it hit me that we needed to teach this and provide a platform for businesspeople. We now have 9,500 groups in more than 70 countries.
 Hugh: 9,500 groups. We have people from a couple countries here, Algeria and Texas.
 Ivan: Texas is its own country.
 Hugh: We are in the south. We think California is another country, but we are confused about Texas.
 Ivan: I grew up in California. It is another country.
 Hugh: It will fall off in the ocean someday. What my mission is is to help nonprofit leaders think out of their box to learn some really good business principles. Sometimes, in networking, we do the inverse. We don’t want to ask anybody for anything. Or we come from a position of need. “Oh, I need this. Help us.” Tell me about the framing that nonprofit leaders, we have clergy, we have executive directors, we have board chairs, we have people in what we like to call the for-purpose, not for-profit, community. What is the mindset we need to have as we approach networking?
 Ivan: I think the first mindset, and it’s something I teach everyone and I think applies in the nonprofit world just as much as in the for-profit, is the foundation of networking is something I call the VCP process: Visibility, Credibility, Profitability. You first have to be visible. People have to know who you are and what you do. Then you move from visibility to credibility. People know who you are, what you do, and that you’re good at it. That takes a long time to go from visibility to credibility. But when you get to credibility, then you can move to profitability, where people know who you are, what you do, that you’re good at it, and they are willing to refer people to you. They are willing to bring people to you, whether it be a for-profit enterprise or a nonprofit enterprise. They are willing to refer you, support you, help you. That takes time. Networking is much more about farming than it is about hunting. It’s about cultivating relationships with other business professionals. I think this fits the nonprofit world well, but I don’t think the nonprofit world knows that. They keep thinking they’re different. The VCP process applies to both.
 Hugh: Absolutely. We have this brilliance we can offer. We feed people, we clothe people, we help people get jobs. We do all this philanthropic work. That is our mental capital. Over here, we want financial capital. There is a space in between where you do what you’re talking about. It’s relationship capital.
 Ivan: It’s social capital, yeah.
 Hugh: We build that. It’s relationship. It’s trust. It’s being social.  I don’t care if you’re an introvert or not, and it takes energy away from you. It’s still important for the leader and the board. Tell us about your board experience. Did you help them think about networking?
 Ivan: Let’s talk for a moment about, before you asked about the board, you were talking about- The gray hair, things are slipping my mind. Yeah, I have been on a number of boards. I am an emeritus member of the board of directors for the Leroy Haynes Children’s Center in the Los Angeles area. I was on their board for almost 20 years. I have been on the board of trustees for the University of La Verne. I am presently sitting on the board of directors for the Austin Boys and Girls Club. I started my own foundation, so obviously I am on the board of my own foundation. I have had a lot of work in the nonprofit world for a long time. The nonprofit world does a lot of really good work.
 Hugh: Yeah, I was talking about trust and having a conversation. It’s a process to go from what we got to offer to people writing a check.
 Ivan: Yeah. Thank you. When you have that, there are a number of things that one can- You talked about introvert and extrovert. That is the thing I wanted to touch on. A lot of people assume you have to be an extrovert to be good at networking. That’s not true. What’s really funny- This is absolutely a true story, and I wrote about this about eight years ago on my blog at IvanMisner.com. I have more than 1,000 posts, and I have been blogging there for more than 13 years.
 One day, I was talking to my wife. We weren’t quite empty nesters; our kids were in high school. They were at practice. It’s just my wife and me. It was great. This is what it was going to be like. I said something to her, “You know me, honey, I’m an extrovert.” She was like, “No, you’re not.” I said, “What do you mean I’m not? Of course I’m an extrovert. I run the world’s largest business networking organization. I can’t be an introvert.” I have been married 32 years. I don’t know if you’re married or not, but this is so husband/wife relationship. She’s like, “Okay, honey, that’s what you think. That’s fine. You can be an extrovert.” “No, it’s not what I think. I am a keynote speaker. You can’t be an introvert.” “Whatever you think.” “Why do you think I’m an introvert?” She had been reading this book and telling me the differences between them. Then she said something that hit me, “Extroverts love to go out to recharge their batteries. Introverts want to hide and get away from everybody.“ “Okay, that definitely sounds like me.”
 But I am not an introvert. So I walk into my office at home in California, and I got on the Internet and found a test to take. I was going to show her that I am not an introvert. So I take this test. True story. I take this test, and it comes back with “Congratulations, Ivan. You are an introvert who is a situational extrovert.” I looked further, and it said, “When you are talking about something that you are very knowledgeable about, when you are in your wheelhouse, when you are with close friends, you come across as an extrovert. Otherwise, you are an introvert. So go apologize to your wife.” It didn’t say that last part, but I did. I said, “Hey, I can’t believe this, but you’re right. I am an introvert.”
 Even before I discovered that, I told people introverts can be great at networking. The reason why they can be is that they’re much more likely to listen than to speak. A good networker is like a good host, an interviewer. Hugh, you’re asking me questions and letting me answer. That’s what a good networker is. A good networker asks questions and lets the person speak. Extroverts love talking. What is their favorite subject? Themselves. So people assume that an extrovert is a great networker. That’s not true. They are a great networker if they have learned to slow down and be an interviewer. Ask questions just like you are.
 Hugh: Take a note. Don’t use your personality type as an excuse.
 Ivan: That’s exactly right.
 Hugh: Sometimes, Myers-Briggs and many of those instruments, I am way over on E. When I am in a group where I am not the subject matter expert, I can flip over, and I am quiet. I am a situational introvert. That is a good term. It really is about our processing and our energy. I gain energy. I am a conductor. I finish a two-hour rehearsal, and I am raring to go. I have adrenaline. Other people have to go to bed after a social event. You’re so true. When an introvert speaks, they have thought it out, and then, boom, it comes out as a complete thought. Extroverts just blurt it out. It’s in process. Our assumption is we are going to have a conversation.
 The important thing that rose in your conversation to my attention was that we are talking to potential donors. The scenario you just described, we are networking. We want to listen to them. What are they interested in? We want to go up to the ATM, put in a card, and get some cash. Guess what? They don’t want to be an ATM. They want to find out what they’re interested in. That is a form of networking, isn’t it?
 Ivan: It is. And sometimes you find out it’s not a good fit, but you want to find people who it’s a good fit. Their values and vision on the impact that they want to make in their community is congruent, resonant with yours. Where you can find those levers that you can pull that are resonant with their goals in life, the things they want to make a difference in, then you have the right person. You have to find out. You have to learn about that individual before you can start trying to pull money out of them.
 Hugh: Yes. In the social benefit world of churches and nonprofits, we receive money because we provide value.
 Ivan: Yes. But isn’t that the same in business?
 Hugh: It’s all the same. People buy from us because we give them value. There is a trust level there. There is a monetary exchange. It’s an exchange of energy, trust. There is lots of ways to think of it. Having conversations, you’re so right. It’s 10% talking. When I studied coaching, they said, “Coaching is 90% listening. Most of the other 10% is listening.” I have had clients who solved great problems that they have given me credit for when I was a listener.
 Ivan: And asking questions as a coach.
 Hugh: Yes. Absolutely. Listening actively. We might already be nervous when approaching a donor or in front of a group or a new network of people. What is your advice to nonprofit leaders? We do have a mix of people on here. Some people have a nonprofit and a business. Some people have a church or synagogue and a business. Some people have only one or the other. What is your advice for people as they are approaching, let’s say, a new group opportunity to network with other professionals? We have some anxiety or apprehension or concern about that. What is your advice to get the right mindset as we go into an opportunity to meet new people?
 Ivan: The right mindset is about building relationships with people. It’s not as you said about transaction. It’s about the relationship. In one of my books, I wrote something you might find interesting. In a book I wrote called Truth of Delusion, where I ask questions, I say, “Is this statement true, or is it false? Is it a delusion?” One of the statements we made in the book, “You can network anywhere, any time, any place, even at a funeral.” Is that truth or delusion? Of course, the overwhelming majority say, “No, you cannot network at a funeral.”
 Here is our answer. The answer is it’s a truth. But here is the key. This is important. If you hear that answer, you have to hear this first sentence after that answer. You must always honor the event. You don’t go to a funeral passing out your business card. That’s completely inappropriate. But if networking, as I believe it is, is about building relationships with people, then there is no place that is inappropriate to build a relationship.
 Let me give you an example. I was at a church function years ago, one of those potluck things in the afternoon. Everybody brings in meals. Lot of fellowship. People are talking. I saw a business guy who I wanted to get to know. He was very successful in the area. I struck up a conversation with him. One of the questions that I suggest people ask, after you say, “Tell me about your business. Who are you? What kind of clients are you looking for?” all the normal stuff. A question I like to ask, but you can’t start with this, is, “What are some of the challenges you run into in this business?” He gave me an answer I’d never heard before.
 He said, “Business is awesome right now. My biggest challenge is I want to give back to the community. But sometimes my years are up, and some years are not up as much. I am having good years one after another, but some are incredible. I don’t want to give away all that money. But I am not big enough to create my own foundation. I don’t know how to deal with that.” I said, “Have you ever heard of a community foundation?” He said, “No. What are those?” I said, “There are a lot in Southern California. There is the world’s largest called the California Community Foundation. You can create a fund under the community foundation under your own name. John Doe Foundation. It’s part of the California Community Foundation. There are restrictions on the kinds of things you can do, but they are pretty reasonable.” Back then, it only took $10,000 to open a fund. It may be more now. He said, “Oh my goodness. I have never heard of one of those. Hang on. Here’s my card. Would you mind? Do you know anybody there?” “Yeah, I know the VP of Development.” “Would you introduce me?” “I’d love to introduce you.”
 That’s what networking is. You can network anywhere, any time, any place, even in church, if you honor the event. To me, honoring the event is about making connections with people. If you can help someone in some way, then that’s what networking is. He was in a business that wasn’t relevant to BNI. If I had wanted to call him, if I had called him next week and said, “Hey, it was great talking to you.” By the way, I introduced him to the VP, and he opened up an account like that. If I had called him a week later and asked him to get together to learn more about what he did, do you think he would have taken my call and met with me? Yeah. Why? Because I made the beginning of a relationship. We stayed connected through church. We never did business together. That’s what networking is. It’s about helping people. It comes back around to you.
 Hugh: That is a great story. Givers Gain. What is that? That summarizes BNI. How did you arrive at that? We tend to use too many words. It’s brilliant in its simplicity.
 Ivan: It’s predicated on a theory in social capital called the law of reciprocity. The law of reciprocity basically is what goes around comes around. If you put things out to the world, it will come back to you. To me, that phrase was the simplest way of explaining what could be a somewhat complex concept. The concept of giving is actually more complicated than it sounds because when you really get to it, people start asking, “When do you know that you’re giving too much and not getting anything in return? How do you ask? Do you give, give, give and never ask?” There are subtleties and complexities to the concept of Givers Gain. The bottom line is you have to give to people before you expect them to give you anything. Giving might be a referral to someone else, not selling your business, but giving them ideas, connections.
 Hugh: Law of reciprocity. Thank you, Napoleon Hill. The problem with common sense is it’s not very common.
 Ivan: It’s not commonly applied.
 Hugh: No. I’ve been doing this kind of work in the church for 40 years as a music director. People thought I was smart, so I served a 12,000-member church, so they asked me to come do board development and leadership development with them. I developed my third career out of that. I really struggle with how things have changed so dramatically. The work has gotten more and more important over those last 32 years I have been doing this work. It’s more important now than ever before in history. In this changed world, in this new normal, it’s up to us as leaders to set the bar for the new culture and the new engagement. What are your thoughts about how things have changed, and how networking is important in this new time?
 Ivan: Listen, networking has always been important. What I have done is codify it and organize it and structure it and explain it in a way that I think is useful. But it’s always been important. In terms of leadership, there are a couple of concepts that I was taught by- I did my doctoral work at USC under Dr. Warren Bennis, which was in his day the world’s leading expert on leadership. That mantle has been handed over to John C. Maxwell, who is an amazing man. I have had the opportunity to meet him on a number of occasions. Truly holds the crown of the expert on leadership today. But one of the things I learned from Warren when I studied with him was something that I think applies today and will apply 100 years from now in leadership.
 Two concepts. One is contextual intelligence. The second is adaptive capacity. Contextual intelligence. This is something I don’t hear talked about much in leadership other than Warren. You really need to understand the context of the challenge. The context and the players will determine elements of how you address a particular challenge. So you really have to understand the context of this particular problem because the same problem in a different place might not have the same context. It might not play out exactly the same.
 I will give you an example. The second thing is adaptive capacity. One must have the ability to adapt to the changing contextual intelligence that you are confronted with. We talked about these concepts, and I understood them. I saw it come out and play out in the real world at the university where I was on the board. Warren was speaking. He did an event. I invited him to speak at an event at the University of La Verne. He spoke. It was right before the new president had taken office. He sat there in front of a big audience and said, “What do you guys think of the new president? She’s amazing, isn’t she?” Everyone thought she was fantastic. She hadn’t started yet, but she had been on the campus off and on for more than a month. He said, “Is she prepared, or what?” “Yeah, she’s completely prepared.” He said, “From day one, everything will come into place.” “Yeah!” He leaned into the microphone and said, “You’re all crazy.” We were shocked. He said, “She’s prepared, yeah. But the minute she walks in, there are going to be changes to the environment that nobody predicted. And so her ability to adapt will be critical in the success in her role in this university.”
 Within 30-60 days after she came in, the university lost its preliminary or interim accreditation for the bar association’s law school. Yeah. She had nothing to do with it. She’d been there for only a month, less than two. There was an interim accreditation, and there was one more step to get to fully accredited. Lost it. Completely lost it. She had one year to regain interim accreditation, or it would be lost permanently. Well, you know that requires incredible adaptive capacity. It also requires contextual intelligence. The law school was on a track. It was doing fine. She had to understand the whole board. She had to see the entire chessboard of the university and see where things were going and what she thought was going to be okay actually wasn’t. Understanding that a lot of resources had to go to that. A lot of adapting had to take place. That was all part of the leadership process that I think is something that 100 years from now will still be just as important, no matter what the technology or situation. Understanding the context and being able to adapt are key elements of a successful leader. By the way, the university is fully accredited as a law school now.
 Hugh: Three Feet from Gold, Greg Reid writes about how we don’t give up. You’re right there. Edison said, “Most people give up just before they succeed.”
 You and I were talking a bit as we were launching the live feed. We haven’t been on airplanes in a while. One person said we’re finding out now which meetings could really be held by email instead of having to be there. I haven’t been too sad about cancelling some of my trips. It’s a whole new world of working from home. I miss the interaction and the chemistry of being present, but I am just as busy as when I was traveling, maybe more. How do we network from home? How do we work from home? We are in the business, and we need to have positive cash flow to do our work. How do we function at home, especially now?
 Ivan: First of all, I think that we will go back to meeting people in person. That’s not going to completely disappear. The genie is out of the bottle a little bit. What I foresee is some kind of hybrid where you will see a lot more done online and a lot done in person.
 As you know, with BNI, we are talking about 9,500 in-person meetings every week. We had to turn on a dime. We flipped within weeks to 9,500 online meetings. We now run online meetings. When we are out of this great pause (I like to call it that), I think there will be still some groups who may want to continue to meet online. But I think we will end up with some kind of hybrid system.
 In the meantime, while we are working at home, there are a number of things that are important to know. First of all, I started BNI out of my house. I have worked from home for most of the last 37 years. When I had the consulting business, I remember going to the city to get a business license. This was in 1983. They were like, “Where’s your office?” I said, “I work from home.” “Yeah, you can’t get a business license.” 1983, you could not get a business license. “That’s not a business.” “Yeah, I’m a consultant. I don’t need an office space.” “You can’t have a license.” I could not get a business license from the city because I was working from home. Things have changed a lot since then.
 A couple years later, by the way, you were able to get a business license. I started BNI in my home, and I have been working off and on for the last 37 years. Now my office is in Charlotte, North Carolina, but I work here in Austin, Texas. This is my home office I am talking to you from.
 There are a number of things I could recommend. I hate the phrase “social distancing.”
 Hugh: Thank you.
 Ivan: I do. We need to be more social than ever. It’s physical distancing. It’s not social distancing. I believe we need to be more social than ever. You start with that. Then some of the things I talk about in working from home is you should have a dedicated workspace. I have a nice office. I didn’t always have a separate office. Sometimes it was in the corner of the dining room or in a basement. I remember when I got kicked out of one bedroom because we were about to have a child, and I got kicked out of the second bedroom because we were going to have a second child, so I had to move out into an office. As we grew, then I had office space in my homes. I have worked from home most of the last 35 years. Have a dedicated workspace, even if it is a corner of the room. Were you going to say something?
 Hugh: No. I was just wondering how long it took you to figure out why you kept having children.
 Ivan: Yeah. I figured that out. It was planned. My wife was the most amazing woman to deal with the pregnancy. She loved being pregnant. It was quite an experience with her.
 Here’s another one. Don’t get distracted by bright, shiny objects. I keep this here by my desk because I am always talking to entrepreneurs, and they are always chasing bright, shiny objects. You want to be successful at whatever you’re doing, whether it’s for nonprofit or for-profit? Here’s an important key. Do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times. It doesn’t have to be six. It could be five or seven. Do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times. What I see businesspeople do is they constantly chase new things rather than really have a program and work it and work it and work it and work it until it becomes successful. If I have any superpower at all as a businessperson, it is that I am a dog with a bone. I am very persistent. I am good doing six things a thousand times. I think people who do that are much more likely to be successful.
 Here are a couple of other suggestions. No social media. Now, if it’s business, if it’s for your nonprofit organization, that’s fine. But no cat videos during the middle of the day. They are forbidden. Something happens to the space/time continuum when you get on Facebook, and you end up on some YouTube video an hour later. How did I get here? Stay off of social media unless it’s related to your organization.
 Right now, more than ever, micro-dose the news. Micro-dose the news. I see people who are overdosing on the news. Don’t do that. It’s so easy to do from home. Don’t do it. All you see is doom and gloom and the end of the world.
 Don’t get frozen by fear. Let fear focus you, not put you in a state of fear. Get focused by fear. Don’t get frozen by fear.
 Hugh: As a performer, I had to learn that. When you get on stage, you have all of these people staring at you. You turn around with a baton and 75 musicians and 200 singers. It’s like, Ooh. They are all looking at me.
 I have to tell you, when Berny had me speak on stage, it’s a whole lot easier than conducting. But people are staring at you, so you have to have a whole different mindset. There is believing in self that is important, no matter what we are doing here. We have our core values and our guiding principles of how we use those values. We have something worthy, but working, like Jim Rohn used to say, work on yourself harder than you work on your business. I can’t tell you how perfectly aligned everything you have talked about today is with what we teach at SynerVision. I have come to call what we are doing now anti-social distancing. I don’t know what brilliant person came up with the term, but it is physical distancing. We are more social than we have been before.
 Ivan: Yeah, I think so.
 Hugh: I have a blog on that. I am in central western Virginia in the Appalachians. It’s lovely this time of year. Ivan is in Austin, Texas. He has given us lots of bites of wisdom today. You could be listening to this during the isolation we have, semi-quarantine, whatever we call this.
 Ivan: The great pause.
 Hugh: It’s like a music, you have a GP, a grand pause. I teach my leadership principles. One of them is value the rests, which makes everything else work. There are rests in music for a purpose. It’s not absence of sound; it’s a clarity place. I am finding this is a great time for clarity. You have that shiny thing. What is it? It’s a jewel.
 Ivan: I don’t remember where I got it. As soon as I saw it, I knew I had to have it.
 Hugh: You’re under my control. Watch this. Nonprofit leaders are social entrepreneurs. We all ought to be social entrepreneurs because we have the triple bottom line: people, planet, and profit. People ask me, “Do all you entrepreneurs suffer from insanity?” I say, “Heck no. We enjoy it.” There is this certain possibility mindset that we have. We have this vision. It’s important, and the stuff you talk about leadership, I quote John Maxwell and Bennis in my writings and books and online courses.
 Working at home is the new normal, and the new normal going forward is going to be a hybrid. Many of our for-purpose social benefit communities have to be out there feeding people. I am in Lynchburg, Virginia. We have the highest per-capita poverty in Virginia, like 25%, with 28 agencies who feed people. It’s important for them to network amongst themselves, which they are not really doing. There is a space for us to learn about networking that is critical. It comes from leadership. Nothing happens without leadership. I quote John Maxwell a lot.
 There is network, a verb and a noun. Bob has a question. Let me let Bob talk. Bob Hopkins from Dallas, Texas. Why don’t you ask your question in person?
 Bob Hopkins: Okay. Hi, Ivan. Bob Hopkins here. By the way, that picture you see was 40 years ago. I am an old man like you. I have white hair.
 Ivan: I’m just glad I have hair. I don’t care that it’s white. I’m just glad I still have it.
 Bob: I have lots of it, too. Thank you. I am a college professor. I teach in Dallas. I taught at UTA for about 10 years, and now I am teaching junior colleges. I teach speech communications, and I teach networking.
 Ivan: Let me clarify my statement. It’s usually not full-time professors on these webinars. Let me clarify my statement. I only know of one university in the United States that has a core curriculum university course on business networking. That is the University of Michigan, taught by Dr. Wayne Baker. That is the only university in the United States. Do teachers talk about networking during class? I think they teach mostly the wrong stuff, not necessarily the right stuff. There are no courses on networking to speak of in the world.
 Bob: I know that. Because I think networking is so important, I couldn’t have done what I have done or be where I am without who I knew. Of course, I tell my students, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know.
 Ivan: Wait. Let me add to that. I don’t think it’s what you know or who you know. It’s how well you know each other that counts because the question is, do I know that person well enough that I could pick up the phone and call them? Would they take my call? If I asked them for a favor, would they be willing to do the favor? It’s not just knowing somebody; it’s knowing them well. That’s the key. I’m sorry. I keep interrupting you. I’ll stop.
 Bob: The rest of the story is I have them write 250 people that they know down, whittle it down to 25 who are in their circle of influence that they can rely on, and that they do know, and they consider their mentors and counselors and parents and grandparents, etc. They have to write them a letter. The letter is, “I love you so much. I want us to continue this. I want to have your back and you have mine, so I want you to know you are in my circle of influence.” What you said is true. I like what you said about how well do I know these people? That is the important thing.
 My question is: Why not? Why are we not teaching this? Why is the academia? Is it because they have never been in business and don’t know the importance of it?
 Ivan: That is my answer. Are you a full-time professor or adjunct?
 Bob: I’m adjunct.
 Ivan: So you know. I was an adjunct professor for 16 years. You know that it’s the full-time tenured professors who control the curriculum. Even the president of the university does not control it. When you are talking about business professors, it’s the full-time tenured professors who determine the classes. I really get hate mail when I say this. Most full-time tenured professors in business have never run a business.
 Bob: I know.
 Ivan: That’s why. You can get a Bachelor’s in marketing and not know how to sell. We don’t teach sales techniques. Most business professors, it’s like heaven forbid I should get my hands dirty and make a sale. They love social media. They will teach social media. They love advertising because you don’t have to get your hands dirty and sell. They don’t teach sales, closing sales, business networking. It’s because it’s taught mostly by full-time tenured professors. Wayne Baker is the only exception I have ever seen in the last 30 years in Michigan.
 Bob: The reason I am here is because Hugh and I have connected because I ran nonprofit organizations for 35 years before I started teaching college. I have only been teaching for about 10 years. The nonprofit sector is something I also teach. I have a book called Philanthropy Misunderstood. I teach my students philanthropy. I was called by my dean at one of these universities who said to me, “Bob, nonprofits are not businesses. Why are you teaching nonprofits in your classroom?”
 Hugh: Oh my. Ivan, I don’t know if you can see my screen. But this is Bob’s book. It’s a brilliant book. There are world-changing, life-changing nonprofits. He has had a long career.
 Ivan: Bob, I agree with you. I think the lessons learned in business and in nonprofits are oftentimes, at the very least, overlapping, if not the same.
 Bob: I was excited to know who you are and that you are the one who founded networking. Thank you.
 Ivan: Well, I founded BNI. Networking has been around for a long time. I organized it.
 Hugh: Bob, thank you for coming in. Let me prevail upon your secrecy there. Tell him the name of your horse before you leave.
 Bob: That horse there is not the one that I have now, but the one I have now is named Philanthropy.
 Ivan: I like it.
 Hugh: He’s all in.
 Ivan: Bob, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
 Bob: I’m in Dallas. Once this settles down and the traffic isn’t too bad, I will drive to Austin to meet you.
 Ivan: All right. You got it. Be well.
 Hugh: Bob is a peach of a guy. I went to Dallas. My wife is a clergy graduate of Perkins School of Theology. The week before the airlines quit taking us places. I had a guest who founded Barefoot Winery. They said, “You have to meet Bob,” and we have connected and have been doing amazing stuff since then.
 Ivan: That’s networking.
 Hugh: Yes. They accidentally founded a winery. They were marketing people. Great story. I have had some wonderful people in six years on this show. You’re giving us really useful, helpful nuggets. This is so good. To find out about BNI, go to BNI.com. And IvanMisner.com.
 Ivan: IvanMisner.com. I have 13 years of content up there. It’s all free. Check it out.
 Hugh: Love it. Ivan is the man. He has been such an influencer over those many years. Let’s talk about the difference between network as a verb and network as a noun.
 Ivan: How would you define it?
 Hugh: Having a network, those are people who you have done due diligence with. You know who they are. I spent 40 years in church ministry, music ministry. I never had lunch alone. I always met with somebody. I got the most useful information, and they got information because they asked me questions, “What do you do anyway? We see you an hour on Sunday. What do you do the rest of the week?” I realized the Ballou 10/90 rule. The 10% is what you see, and 90% is what you don’t see that makes that 10% possible. Networking is an activity to connect and meet people and to share and to provide value for people. A network is the people who you know. What do you think?
 Ivan: That’s a good definition. Both of them are really, if it’s done right, are about relationship-building. It’s about the relationships you create.
 Hugh: Absolutely. Leadership is based on relationship. Communication is founded in relationship. The flow of money is based on relationship.
 Ivan: Oftentimes.
 Hugh: Let’s talk about something that is not money flow. Let’s talk about boards. I am going off being the president of the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra board. I was a guest conductor. They elected me when I wasn’t looking to be president. I am going off, and they are doing this board nominating process. This is networking also. We don’t know how to make the ask for money or for people. I love it when people ask, “Would you serve on this committee or this board? It’s not a lot of work.” You know they’re lying to you. How do we come forward? You’ve been on boards. It may be hard to get the right people on the board. How do we frame the conversation when we want to invite people to consider a board position?
 Ivan: The first thing you do is you go to them with someone who knows them really well. If that’s you, that’s great. Otherwise, I think the third party testimonial is incredibly powerful, and when you have somebody who says- Let’s say Bob says to me, “Ivan, you really should be active in Hugh’s organization. Hugh has done an amazing job. He has created this organization that has done this thing. That should resonate with you because you’re interested-“ My emphasis in nonprofits tends to be children and education. I believe children represent about 20% of today’s population, but they represent 100% of the future. It’s about children and educating them. If he can make that linkage, then he has connected the two of us. Then we can have that dialogue about how I might be able to help you or you might be able to help me. The third-party endorsement process is the best way to get donors, board members, committee members. It’s easier for me to say no to somebody I don’t know, trust, or like, than it is to say no to someone I know, trust, or like.
 Hugh: Ah. Point well taken. That’s sage advice. I can see why you’ve been very successful over the years. Starting a business, growing a business, and maintaining the viability of a business are three different things, aren’t they?
 Ivan: Oh yeah. Very much so. An entrepreneur needs to figure out pretty quickly, or even in a nonprofit, when you’re in that nonprofit in whatever role, if you want to be happy with what you do, it’s very important that you work in your flame and not in your wax. Let me explain that. When you’re working in your flame, you’re excited, you’re on fire, people can hear it in the way you speak, they can see it in the way you act. When you’re working in your wax, it takes all your energy away, people can hear it in your voice, and they can see it in the way you act.
 Over time, the things that are your flame- Let me speak for myself. The things that were my flame when I started BNI are no longer my flame. Many of those things, I don’t want to do them anymore. It’s very important to learn the skillset of how to delegate effectively, how to select the right people, delegate effectively, put them in charge of that area so that you can continue to work in your flame and not in your wax. 90% of my time is in my flame. This is the fourth interview I’ve done today. I’m sort of the Colonel Sanders of BNI now. I am the spokesman for networking.
 Hugh: Love it. Tell us about your nonprofit that you founded.
 Ivan: I started the Misner Family Foundation and the BNI Foundation. Two different foundations we have created. Both focus on children and education. Misner Family Foundation is a private foundation for my family, supporting children and education. The BNI Foundation primarily supports children and education, and it’s the charitable arm of what BNI does. We do both activities to help kids locally as well as funding grants and things like that locally. BNIFoundation.org, you can find the website for it.
 Hugh: BNIFoundation.org. Think about a closing thought or a tip or challenge you’d like to give people who are listening to this. It could be years from now. We have been doing these interviews for six years, Ivan. We’ve had some incredible people.
 *Sponsor message from EZCard*
 Ivan Misner, I don’t know why you said yes to come on to my show today, but I’m glad you did. I wrote to you on LinkedIn, we had a short exchange, and you agreed. What thought or challenge or tip do you want to leave people with today?
 Ivan: We are living through challenging times. I don’t know what our future holds, but I do know we can influence it. I do know we can make a difference in it. I also know that your mindset is so incredibly important. I think hope is much more powerful than fear. Fear paralyzes us. It freezes us. When we are afraid of what the future will hold or what will happen, we just freeze. What we need to do right now more than ever is focus, not freeze. That focus can come with hope. The only other thing you need to add to it is action. You have hope, and you take action. When you do those things, you can come out of times like this, and you can make it through times like this. Be creative. Be innovative. Think about what you can do. My nonprofit, the Austin Boys &amp; Girls Club, that I am on the board of, they created something called Club on the Go, where you can come by and pick up food that they package so there is still that social distancing. Be creative. Have hope. And influence your future. That is my closing thought.
 Hugh: Ivan Misner, you are a gift to all of us. Thank you for being on The Nonprofit Exchange today.
  
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Don't Stop Networking, Just Do It Differently<br> Interview with Dr. Ivan Misner</strong></h1> <p><strong>Dr. Ivan Misner</strong> is the Founder &amp; Chief Visionary Officer of BNI, the world’s largest business networking organization.  Founded in 1985 the organization now has over 9,400 chapters throughout every populated continent of the world.  Last year alone, BNI generated almost 12.3 million referrals resulting in $16.7 billion dollars worth of business for its members.</p> <p>Dr. Misner’s Ph.D. is from the University of Southern California.  He is a <em>New York Times</em> Bestselling author who has written 24 books including one of his latest books – <em>Who’s in Your Room?</em> He is also a columnist for Entrepreneur.com and has been a university professor as well as a member of the Board of Trustees for the University of La Verne.</p> <p>Called the <em>“Father of Modern Networking”</em> by CNN and one of the <em>“Top Networking Experts</em>” by Forbes, Dr. Misner is considered to be one of the world’s leading experts on business networking and has been a keynote speaker for major corporations and associations throughout the world.  He has been featured in the <em>L.A. Times, Wall Street Journal,</em> and <em>New York. Times,</em> as well as numerous TV and radio shows including <em>CNN,</em> the <em>BBC</em> and <em>The Today Show</em> on <em>NBC</em>.</p> <p>Among his many awards, he has been named “<em>Humanitarian of the Year</em>” by the Red Cross and was recently the recipient of the <em>John C. Maxwell Leadership Award</em>.  He is also proud to be the Co-Founder of the BNI Charitable Foundation.  He and his wife, Elisabeth, are now “empty nesters” with three adult children. Oh, and in his spare time, he is also an amateur magician and a black belt in karate.</p> <p>More information at:</p> <p><strong><a href="https://www.bni.com/">www.bni.com</a></strong></p> <p><strong><a href="https://ivanmisner.com/">www.ivanmisner.com</a></strong></p> <p> </p> Read the Interview <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings everyone. This is Hugh Ballou. Welcome back to a new episode of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange,</em> where we talk to leaders and get their secrets to success, what they found that’s worked, what didn’t work, what’s their wisdom. Each week is a different person from a different place with a different experience, but they have a passion for excellence.</p> <p>Today’s guest is the founder of a really neat networking group called BNI. I will let him tell you a little bit about BNI. I have been a member over the years, and I have done networking as a nonprofit leader, as a church professional, and as a business professional. I find out that networking is as misunderstood as leadership is. There are a whole lot more varieties of what people call networking, but Ivan Misner stands alone as a person who has developed a whole new system for networking. Ivan, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em> today.</p> <p><strong>Ivan Misner:</strong> Hugh, thank you very much for having me here. You’re right. I am the founder of BNI. We have now 9,500 groups in more than 70 countries around the world. But what you may not know about me is I have spent some time in the nonprofit world. My second management job was as an assistant to the president of a nonprofit transportation business in Los Angeles called Commuter Transportation Services, Inc., which was rideshare before there was Uber. It was computers bigger than this room to set up rideshares. It was funded mostly by the government and private corporations. I worked there for a while. I have been on the boards of nonprofit organizations for more than 30 years. Lot of experience in the nonprofit world.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You know some of the challenges that nonprofits are facing. Today, even more challenges. I like to say that, in the words of my co-publisher of our magazine and friend Jeff Magee, we suck at networking. Suck is halfway to success.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> I like it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I stole that from him, but I give him attribution. We go into a crowded room and say, “Hey, it looks like the stock market. We are trying to bid higher than the next person.” But I found my experience in BNI to be relationship-building and also the people I met there, I still know. I’m not active in that anymore. Life has taken me different places. I moved; I didn’t get out purposefully. I found it is multi-dimensional.</p> <p>Let’s go back. When did you found BNI, and why?</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> I started BNI in January of 1985. I was a management consultant. I helped companies with hiring, training, and evaluating employees. I got most of my business through referrals. I was looking for referrals. I went to a lot of networking groups, and the groups I went to were just playing mercenary. I’d go to these meetings, and I felt like I’d been slimed, and I needed to go home and get a shower. Everyone was trying to sell to me. Everyone was trying to sell. I didn’t like that. I went to these other groups that were totally social; it was happy hour and hors d’oeuvres. Nobody was doing business. I didn’t like either of those groups. I wanted the business, but I didn’t want it to be mercenary. I wanted the social, but I wanted it to be relational. What I did was merge this concept of business and relational, and the glue that would hold it together is our principal core value of Givers Gain. This idea of that if I help you, you’ll help me, and we’ll all do better.</p> <p>Hugh, I’d like to tell you that I had this vision of an international organization, but I just wanted some referrals for my consulting practice. I wanted to help my friends. One thing led to another, and it turned into two, to 10, to 20 groups. By the time it hit 20 groups, I realized, and it happened in less than a year, that I had struck a chord in the business community. We don’t teach this in colleges and universities, even in business.</p> <p>I get it. You’re a nonprofit. You feel like you aren’t prepared. But business isn’t prepared either. We don’t teach this in school. That’s when it hit me that we needed to teach this and provide a platform for businesspeople. We now have 9,500 groups in more than 70 countries.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> 9,500 groups. We have people from a couple countries here, Algeria and Texas.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Texas is its own country.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are in the south. We think California is another country, but we are confused about Texas.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> I grew up in California. It is another country.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It will fall off in the ocean someday. What my mission is is to help nonprofit leaders think out of their box to learn some really good business principles. Sometimes, in networking, we do the inverse. We don’t want to ask anybody for anything. Or we come from a position of need. “Oh, I need this. Help us.” Tell me about the framing that nonprofit leaders, we have clergy, we have executive directors, we have board chairs, we have people in what we like to call the for-purpose, not for-profit, community. What is the mindset we need to have as we approach networking?</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> I think the first mindset, and it’s something I teach everyone and I think applies in the nonprofit world just as much as in the for-profit, is the foundation of networking is something I call the VCP process: Visibility, Credibility, Profitability. You first have to be visible. People have to know who you are and what you do. Then you move from visibility to credibility. People know who you are, what you do, and that you’re good at it. That takes a long time to go from visibility to credibility. But when you get to credibility, then you can move to profitability, where people know who you are, what you do, that you’re good at it, and they are willing to refer people to you. They are willing to bring people to you, whether it be a for-profit enterprise or a nonprofit enterprise. They are willing to refer you, support you, help you. That takes time. Networking is much more about farming than it is about hunting. It’s about cultivating relationships with other business professionals. I think this fits the nonprofit world well, but I don’t think the nonprofit world knows that. They keep thinking they’re different. The VCP process applies to both.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. We have this brilliance we can offer. We feed people, we clothe people, we help people get jobs. We do all this philanthropic work. That is our mental capital. Over here, we want financial capital. There is a space in between where you do what you’re talking about. It’s relationship capital.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> It’s social capital, yeah.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We build that. It’s relationship. It’s trust. It’s being social.  I don’t care if you’re an introvert or not, and it takes energy away from you. It’s still important for the leader and the board. Tell us about your board experience. Did you help them think about networking?</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Let’s talk for a moment about, before you asked about the board, you were talking about- The gray hair, things are slipping my mind. Yeah, I have been on a number of boards. I am an emeritus member of the board of directors for the Leroy Haynes Children’s Center in the Los Angeles area. I was on their board for almost 20 years. I have been on the board of trustees for the University of La Verne. I am presently sitting on the board of directors for the Austin Boys and Girls Club. I started my own foundation, so obviously I am on the board of my own foundation. I have had a lot of work in the nonprofit world for a long time. The nonprofit world does a lot of really good work.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yeah, I was talking about trust and having a conversation. It’s a process to go from what we got to offer to people writing a check.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Yeah. Thank you. When you have that, there are a number of things that one can- You talked about introvert and extrovert. That is the thing I wanted to touch on. A lot of people assume you have to be an extrovert to be good at networking. That’s not true. What’s really funny- This is absolutely a true story, and I wrote about this about eight years ago on my blog at IvanMisner.com. I have more than 1,000 posts, and I have been blogging there for more than 13 years.</p> <p>One day, I was talking to my wife. We weren’t quite empty nesters; our kids were in high school. They were at practice. It’s just my wife and me. It was great. This is what it was going to be like. I said something to her, “You know me, honey, I’m an extrovert.” She was like, “No, you’re not.” I said, “What do you mean I’m not? Of course I’m an extrovert. I run the world’s largest business networking organization. I can’t be an introvert.” I have been married 32 years. I don’t know if you’re married or not, but this is so husband/wife relationship. She’s like, “Okay, honey, that’s what you think. That’s fine. You can be an extrovert.” “No, it’s not what I think. I am a keynote speaker. You can’t be an introvert.” “Whatever you think.” “Why do you think I’m an introvert?” She had been reading this book and telling me the differences between them. Then she said something that hit me, “Extroverts love to go out to recharge their batteries. Introverts want to hide and get away from everybody.“ “Okay, that definitely sounds like me.”</p> <p>But I am not an introvert. So I walk into my office at home in California, and I got on the Internet and found a test to take. I was going to show her that I am not an introvert. So I take this test. True story. I take this test, and it comes back with “Congratulations, Ivan. You are an introvert who is a situational extrovert.” I looked further, and it said, “When you are talking about something that you are very knowledgeable about, when you are in your wheelhouse, when you are with close friends, you come across as an extrovert. Otherwise, you are an introvert. So go apologize to your wife.” It didn’t say that last part, but I did. I said, “Hey, I can’t believe this, but you’re right. I am an introvert.”</p> <p>Even before I discovered that, I told people introverts can be great at networking. The reason why they can be is that they’re much more likely to listen than to speak. A good networker is like a good host, an interviewer. Hugh, you’re asking me questions and letting me answer. That’s what a good networker is. A good networker asks questions and lets the person speak. Extroverts love talking. What is their favorite subject? Themselves. So people assume that an extrovert is a great networker. That’s not true. They are a great networker if they have learned to slow down and be an interviewer. Ask questions just like you are.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Take a note. Don’t use your personality type as an excuse.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> That’s exactly right.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Sometimes, Myers-Briggs and many of those instruments, I am way over on E. When I am in a group where I am not the subject matter expert, I can flip over, and I am quiet. I am a situational introvert. That is a good term. It really is about our processing and our energy. I gain energy. I am a conductor. I finish a two-hour rehearsal, and I am raring to go. I have adrenaline. Other people have to go to bed after a social event. You’re so true. When an introvert speaks, they have thought it out, and then, boom, it comes out as a complete thought. Extroverts just blurt it out. It’s in process. Our assumption is we are going to have a conversation.</p> <p>The important thing that rose in your conversation to my attention was that we are talking to potential donors. The scenario you just described, we are networking. We want to listen to them. What are they interested in? We want to go up to the ATM, put in a card, and get some cash. Guess what? They don’t want to be an ATM. They want to find out what they’re interested in. That is a form of networking, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> It is. And sometimes you find out it’s not a good fit, but you want to find people who it’s a good fit. Their values and vision on the impact that they want to make in their community is congruent, resonant with yours. Where you can find those levers that you can pull that are resonant with their goals in life, the things they want to make a difference in, then you have the right person. You have to find out. You have to learn about that individual before you can start trying to pull money out of them.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes. In the social benefit world of churches and nonprofits, we receive money because we provide value.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Yes. But isn’t that the same in business?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s all the same. People buy from us because we give them value. There is a trust level there. There is a monetary exchange. It’s an exchange of energy, trust. There is lots of ways to think of it. Having conversations, you’re so right. It’s 10% talking. When I studied coaching, they said, “Coaching is 90% listening. Most of the other 10% is listening.” I have had clients who solved great problems that they have given me credit for when I was a listener.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> And asking questions as a coach.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes. Absolutely. Listening actively. We might already be nervous when approaching a donor or in front of a group or a new network of people. What is your advice to nonprofit leaders? We do have a mix of people on here. Some people have a nonprofit and a business. Some people have a church or synagogue and a business. Some people have only one or the other. What is your advice for people as they are approaching, let’s say, a new group opportunity to network with other professionals? We have some anxiety or apprehension or concern about that. What is your advice to get the right mindset as we go into an opportunity to meet new people?</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> The right mindset is about building relationships with people. It’s not as you said about transaction. It’s about the relationship. In one of my books, I wrote something you might find interesting. In a book I wrote called <em>Truth of Delusion,</em> where I ask questions, I say, “Is this statement true, or is it false? Is it a delusion?” One of the statements we made in the book, “You can network anywhere, any time, any place, even at a funeral.” Is that truth or delusion? Of course, the overwhelming majority say, “No, you cannot network at a funeral.”</p> <p>Here is our answer. The answer is it’s a truth. But here is the key. This is important. If you hear that answer, you have to hear this first sentence after that answer. You must always honor the event. You don’t go to a funeral passing out your business card. That’s completely inappropriate. But if networking, as I believe it is, is about building relationships with people, then there is no place that is inappropriate to build a relationship.</p> <p>Let me give you an example. I was at a church function years ago, one of those potluck things in the afternoon. Everybody brings in meals. Lot of fellowship. People are talking. I saw a business guy who I wanted to get to know. He was very successful in the area. I struck up a conversation with him. One of the questions that I suggest people ask, after you say, “Tell me about your business. Who are you? What kind of clients are you looking for?” all the normal stuff. A question I like to ask, but you can’t start with this, is, “What are some of the challenges you run into in this business?” He gave me an answer I’d never heard before.</p> <p>He said, “Business is awesome right now. My biggest challenge is I want to give back to the community. But sometimes my years are up, and some years are not up as much. I am having good years one after another, but some are incredible. I don’t want to give away all that money. But I am not big enough to create my own foundation. I don’t know how to deal with that.” I said, “Have you ever heard of a community foundation?” He said, “No. What are those?” I said, “There are a lot in Southern California. There is the world’s largest called the California Community Foundation. You can create a fund under the community foundation under your own name. John Doe Foundation. It’s part of the California Community Foundation. There are restrictions on the kinds of things you can do, but they are pretty reasonable.” Back then, it only took $10,000 to open a fund. It may be more now. He said, “Oh my goodness. I have never heard of one of those. Hang on. Here’s my card. Would you mind? Do you know anybody there?” “Yeah, I know the VP of Development.” “Would you introduce me?” “I’d love to introduce you.”</p> <p>That’s what networking is. You can network anywhere, any time, any place, even in church, if you honor the event. To me, honoring the event is about making connections with people. If you can help someone in some way, then that’s what networking is. He was in a business that wasn’t relevant to BNI. If I had wanted to call him, if I had called him next week and said, “Hey, it was great talking to you.” By the way, I introduced him to the VP, and he opened up an account like that. If I had called him a week later and asked him to get together to learn more about what he did, do you think he would have taken my call and met with me? Yeah. Why? Because I made the beginning of a relationship. We stayed connected through church. We never did business together. That’s what networking is. It’s about helping people. It comes back around to you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is a great story. Givers Gain. What is that? That summarizes BNI. How did you arrive at that? We tend to use too many words. It’s brilliant in its simplicity.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> It’s predicated on a theory in social capital called the law of reciprocity. The law of reciprocity basically is what goes around comes around. If you put things out to the world, it will come back to you. To me, that phrase was the simplest way of explaining what could be a somewhat complex concept. The concept of giving is actually more complicated than it sounds because when you really get to it, people start asking, “When do you know that you’re giving too much and not getting anything in return? How do you ask? Do you give, give, give and never ask?” There are subtleties and complexities to the concept of Givers Gain. The bottom line is you have to give to people before you expect them to give you anything. Giving might be a referral to someone else, not selling your business, but giving them ideas, connections.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Law of reciprocity. Thank you, Napoleon Hill. The problem with common sense is it’s not very common.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> It’s not commonly applied.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> No. I’ve been doing this kind of work in the church for 40 years as a music director. People thought I was smart, so I served a 12,000-member church, so they asked me to come do board development and leadership development with them. I developed my third career out of that. I really struggle with how things have changed so dramatically. The work has gotten more and more important over those last 32 years I have been doing this work. It’s more important now than ever before in history. In this changed world, in this new normal, it’s up to us as leaders to set the bar for the new culture and the new engagement. What are your thoughts about how things have changed, and how networking is important in this new time?</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Listen, networking has always been important. What I have done is codify it and organize it and structure it and explain it in a way that I think is useful. But it’s always been important. In terms of leadership, there are a couple of concepts that I was taught by- I did my doctoral work at USC under Dr. Warren Bennis, which was in his day the world’s leading expert on leadership. That mantle has been handed over to John C. Maxwell, who is an amazing man. I have had the opportunity to meet him on a number of occasions. Truly holds the crown of the expert on leadership today. But one of the things I learned from Warren when I studied with him was something that I think applies today and will apply 100 years from now in leadership.</p> <p>Two concepts. One is contextual intelligence. The second is adaptive capacity. Contextual intelligence. This is something I don’t hear talked about much in leadership other than Warren. You really need to understand the context of the challenge. The context and the players will determine elements of how you address a particular challenge. So you really have to understand the context of this particular problem because the same problem in a different place might not have the same context. It might not play out exactly the same.</p> <p>I will give you an example. The second thing is adaptive capacity. One must have the ability to adapt to the changing contextual intelligence that you are confronted with. We talked about these concepts, and I understood them. I saw it come out and play out in the real world at the university where I was on the board. Warren was speaking. He did an event. I invited him to speak at an event at the University of La Verne. He spoke. It was right before the new president had taken office. He sat there in front of a big audience and said, “What do you guys think of the new president? She’s amazing, isn’t she?” Everyone thought she was fantastic. She hadn’t started yet, but she had been on the campus off and on for more than a month. He said, “Is she prepared, or what?” “Yeah, she’s completely prepared.” He said, “From day one, everything will come into place.” “Yeah!” He leaned into the microphone and said, “You’re all crazy.” We were shocked. He said, “She’s prepared, yeah. But the minute she walks in, there are going to be changes to the environment that nobody predicted. And so her ability to adapt will be critical in the success in her role in this university.”</p> <p>Within 30-60 days after she came in, the university lost its preliminary or interim accreditation for the bar association’s law school. Yeah. She had nothing to do with it. She’d been there for only a month, less than two. There was an interim accreditation, and there was one more step to get to fully accredited. Lost it. Completely lost it. She had one year to regain interim accreditation, or it would be lost permanently. Well, you know that requires incredible adaptive capacity. It also requires contextual intelligence. The law school was on a track. It was doing fine. She had to understand the whole board. She had to see the entire chessboard of the university and see where things were going and what she thought was going to be okay actually wasn’t. Understanding that a lot of resources had to go to that. A lot of adapting had to take place. That was all part of the leadership process that I think is something that 100 years from now will still be just as important, no matter what the technology or situation. Understanding the context and being able to adapt are key elements of a successful leader. By the way, the university is fully accredited as a law school now.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> <em>Three Feet from Gold,</em> Greg Reid writes about how we don’t give up. You’re right there. Edison said, “Most people give up just before they succeed.”</p> <p>You and I were talking a bit as we were launching the live feed. We haven’t been on airplanes in a while. One person said we’re finding out now which meetings could really be held by email instead of having to be there. I haven’t been too sad about cancelling some of my trips. It’s a whole new world of working from home. I miss the interaction and the chemistry of being present, but I am just as busy as when I was traveling, maybe more. How do we network from home? How do we work from home? We are in the business, and we need to have positive cash flow to do our work. How do we function at home, especially now?</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> First of all, I think that we will go back to meeting people in person. That’s not going to completely disappear. The genie is out of the bottle a little bit. What I foresee is some kind of hybrid where you will see a lot more done online and a lot done in person.</p> <p>As you know, with BNI, we are talking about 9,500 in-person meetings every week. We had to turn on a dime. We flipped within weeks to 9,500 online meetings. We now run online meetings. When we are out of this great pause (I like to call it that), I think there will be still some groups who may want to continue to meet online. But I think we will end up with some kind of hybrid system.</p> <p>In the meantime, while we are working at home, there are a number of things that are important to know. First of all, I started BNI out of my house. I have worked from home for most of the last 37 years. When I had the consulting business, I remember going to the city to get a business license. This was in 1983. They were like, “Where’s your office?” I said, “I work from home.” “Yeah, you can’t get a business license.” 1983, you could not get a business license. “That’s not a business.” “Yeah, I’m a consultant. I don’t need an office space.” “You can’t have a license.” I could not get a business license from the city because I was working from home. Things have changed a lot since then.</p> <p>A couple years later, by the way, you were able to get a business license. I started BNI in my home, and I have been working off and on for the last 37 years. Now my office is in Charlotte, North Carolina, but I work here in Austin, Texas. This is my home office I am talking to you from.</p> <p>There are a number of things I could recommend. I hate the phrase “social distancing.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> I do. We need to be more social than ever. It’s physical distancing. It’s not social distancing. I believe we need to be more social than ever. You start with that. Then some of the things I talk about in working from home is you should have a dedicated workspace. I have a nice office. I didn’t always have a separate office. Sometimes it was in the corner of the dining room or in a basement. I remember when I got kicked out of one bedroom because we were about to have a child, and I got kicked out of the second bedroom because we were going to have a second child, so I had to move out into an office. As we grew, then I had office space in my homes. I have worked from home most of the last 35 years. Have a dedicated workspace, even if it is a corner of the room. Were you going to say something?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> No. I was just wondering how long it took you to figure out why you kept having children.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Yeah. I figured that out. It was planned. My wife was the most amazing woman to deal with the pregnancy. She loved being pregnant. It was quite an experience with her.</p> <p>Here’s another one. Don’t get distracted by bright, shiny objects. I keep this here by my desk because I am always talking to entrepreneurs, and they are always chasing bright, shiny objects. You want to be successful at whatever you’re doing, whether it’s for nonprofit or for-profit? Here’s an important key. Do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times. It doesn’t have to be six. It could be five or seven. Do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times. What I see businesspeople do is they constantly chase new things rather than really have a program and work it and work it and work it and work it until it becomes successful. If I have any superpower at all as a businessperson, it is that I am a dog with a bone. I am very persistent. I am good doing six things a thousand times. I think people who do that are much more likely to be successful.</p> <p>Here are a couple of other suggestions. No social media. Now, if it’s business, if it’s for your nonprofit organization, that’s fine. But no cat videos during the middle of the day. They are forbidden. Something happens to the space/time continuum when you get on Facebook, and you end up on some YouTube video an hour later. How did I get here? Stay off of social media unless it’s related to your organization.</p> <p>Right now, more than ever, micro-dose the news. Micro-dose the news. I see people who are overdosing on the news. Don’t do that. It’s so easy to do from home. Don’t do it. All you see is doom and gloom and the end of the world.</p> <p>Don’t get frozen by fear. Let fear focus you, not put you in a state of fear. Get focused by fear. Don’t get frozen by fear.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> As a performer, I had to learn that. When you get on stage, you have all of these people staring at you. You turn around with a baton and 75 musicians and 200 singers. It’s like, Ooh. They are all looking at me.</p> <p>I have to tell you, when Berny had me speak on stage, it’s a whole lot easier than conducting. But people are staring at you, so you have to have a whole different mindset. There is believing in self that is important, no matter what we are doing here. We have our core values and our guiding principles of how we use those values. We have something worthy, but working, like Jim Rohn used to say, work on yourself harder than you work on your business. I can’t tell you how perfectly aligned everything you have talked about today is with what we teach at SynerVision. I have come to call what we are doing now anti-social distancing. I don’t know what brilliant person came up with the term, but it is physical distancing. We are more social than we have been before.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Yeah, I think so.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I have a blog on that. I am in central western Virginia in the Appalachians. It’s lovely this time of year. Ivan is in Austin, Texas. He has given us lots of bites of wisdom today. You could be listening to this during the isolation we have, semi-quarantine, whatever we call this.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> The great pause.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s like a music, you have a GP, a grand pause. I teach my leadership principles. One of them is value the rests, which makes everything else work. There are rests in music for a purpose. It’s not absence of sound; it’s a clarity place. I am finding this is a great time for clarity. You have that shiny thing. What is it? It’s a jewel.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> I don’t remember where I got it. As soon as I saw it, I knew I had to have it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re under my control. Watch this. Nonprofit leaders are social entrepreneurs. We all ought to be social entrepreneurs because we have the triple bottom line: people, planet, and profit. People ask me, “Do all you entrepreneurs suffer from insanity?” I say, “Heck no. We enjoy it.” There is this certain possibility mindset that we have. We have this vision. It’s important, and the stuff you talk about leadership, I quote John Maxwell and Bennis in my writings and books and online courses.</p> <p>Working at home is the new normal, and the new normal going forward is going to be a hybrid. Many of our for-purpose social benefit communities have to be out there feeding people. I am in Lynchburg, Virginia. We have the highest per-capita poverty in Virginia, like 25%, with 28 agencies who feed people. It’s important for them to network amongst themselves, which they are not really doing. There is a space for us to learn about networking that is critical. It comes from leadership. Nothing happens without leadership. I quote John Maxwell a lot.</p> <p>There is network, a verb and a noun. Bob has a question. Let me let Bob talk. Bob Hopkins from Dallas, Texas. Why don’t you ask your question in person?</p> <p><strong>Bob Hopkins:</strong> Okay. Hi, Ivan. Bob Hopkins here. By the way, that picture you see was 40 years ago. I am an old man like you. I have white hair.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> I’m just glad I have hair. I don’t care that it’s white. I’m just glad I still have it.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I have lots of it, too. Thank you. I am a college professor. I teach in Dallas. I taught at UTA for about 10 years, and now I am teaching junior colleges. I teach speech communications, and I teach networking.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Let me clarify my statement. It’s usually not full-time professors on these webinars. Let me clarify my statement. I only know of one university in the United States that has a core curriculum university course on business networking. That is the University of Michigan, taught by Dr. Wayne Baker. That is the only university in the United States. Do teachers talk about networking during class? I think they teach mostly the wrong stuff, not necessarily the right stuff. There are no courses on networking to speak of in the world.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I know that. Because I think networking is so important, I couldn’t have done what I have done or be where I am without who I knew. Of course, I tell my students, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Wait. Let me add to that. I don’t think it’s what you know or who you know. It’s how well you know each other that counts because the question is, do I know that person well enough that I could pick up the phone and call them? Would they take my call? If I asked them for a favor, would they be willing to do the favor? It’s not just knowing somebody; it’s knowing them well. That’s the key. I’m sorry. I keep interrupting you. I’ll stop.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> The rest of the story is I have them write 250 people that they know down, whittle it down to 25 who are in their circle of influence that they can rely on, and that they do know, and they consider their mentors and counselors and parents and grandparents, etc. They have to write them a letter. The letter is, “I love you so much. I want us to continue this. I want to have your back and you have mine, so I want you to know you are in my circle of influence.” What you said is true. I like what you said about how well do I know these people? That is the important thing.</p> <p>My question is: Why not? Why are we not teaching this? Why is the academia? Is it because they have never been in business and don’t know the importance of it?</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> That is my answer. Are you a full-time professor or adjunct?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I’m adjunct.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> So you know. I was an adjunct professor for 16 years. You know that it’s the full-time tenured professors who control the curriculum. Even the president of the university does not control it. When you are talking about business professors, it’s the full-time tenured professors who determine the classes. I really get hate mail when I say this. Most full-time tenured professors in business have never run a business.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I know.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> That’s why. You can get a Bachelor’s in marketing and not know how to sell. We don’t teach sales techniques. Most business professors, it’s like heaven forbid I should get my hands dirty and make a sale. They love social media. They will teach social media. They love advertising because you don’t have to get your hands dirty and sell. They don’t teach sales, closing sales, business networking. It’s because it’s taught mostly by full-time tenured professors. Wayne Baker is the only exception I have ever seen in the last 30 years in Michigan.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> The reason I am here is because Hugh and I have connected because I ran nonprofit organizations for 35 years before I started teaching college. I have only been teaching for about 10 years. The nonprofit sector is something I also teach. I have a book called <em>Philanthropy Misunderstood.</em> I teach my students philanthropy. I was called by my dean at one of these universities who said to me, “Bob, nonprofits are not businesses. Why are you teaching nonprofits in your classroom?”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my. Ivan, I don’t know if you can see my screen. But this is Bob’s book. It’s a brilliant book. There are world-changing, life-changing nonprofits. He has had a long career.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Bob, I agree with you. I think the lessons learned in business and in nonprofits are oftentimes, at the very least, overlapping, if not the same.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I was excited to know who you are and that you are the one who founded networking. Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Well, I founded BNI. Networking has been around for a long time. I organized it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Bob, thank you for coming in. Let me prevail upon your secrecy there. Tell him the name of your horse before you leave.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> That horse there is not the one that I have now, but the one I have now is named Philanthropy.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> I like it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> He’s all in.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Bob, thanks for sharing your knowledge.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I’m in Dallas. Once this settles down and the traffic isn’t too bad, I will drive to Austin to meet you.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> All right. You got it. Be well.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Bob is a peach of a guy. I went to Dallas. My wife is a clergy graduate of Perkins School of Theology. The week before the airlines quit taking us places. I had a guest who founded Barefoot Winery. They said, “You have to meet Bob,” and we have connected and have been doing amazing stuff since then.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> That’s networking.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes. They accidentally founded a winery. They were marketing people. Great story. I have had some wonderful people in six years on this show. You’re giving us really useful, helpful nuggets. This is so good. To find out about BNI, go to BNI.com. And IvanMisner.com.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> IvanMisner.com. I have 13 years of content up there. It’s all free. Check it out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. Ivan is the man. He has been such an influencer over those many years. Let’s talk about the difference between network as a verb and network as a noun.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> How would you define it?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Having a network, those are people who you have done due diligence with. You know who they are. I spent 40 years in church ministry, music ministry. I never had lunch alone. I always met with somebody. I got the most useful information, and they got information because they asked me questions, “What do you do anyway? We see you an hour on Sunday. What do you do the rest of the week?” I realized the Ballou 10/90 rule. The 10% is what you see, and 90% is what you don’t see that makes that 10% possible. Networking is an activity to connect and meet people and to share and to provide value for people. A network is the people who you know. What do you think?</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> That’s a good definition. Both of them are really, if it’s done right, are about relationship-building. It’s about the relationships you create.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. Leadership is based on relationship. Communication is founded in relationship. The flow of money is based on relationship.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Oftentimes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Let’s talk about something that is not money flow. Let’s talk about boards. I am going off being the president of the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra board. I was a guest conductor. They elected me when I wasn’t looking to be president. I am going off, and they are doing this board nominating process. This is networking also. We don’t know how to make the ask for money or for people. I love it when people ask, “Would you serve on this committee or this board? It’s not a lot of work.” You know they’re lying to you. How do we come forward? You’ve been on boards. It may be hard to get the right people on the board. How do we frame the conversation when we want to invite people to consider a board position?</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> The first thing you do is you go to them with someone who knows them really well. If that’s you, that’s great. Otherwise, I think the third party testimonial is incredibly powerful, and when you have somebody who says- Let’s say Bob says to me, “Ivan, you really should be active in Hugh’s organization. Hugh has done an amazing job. He has created this organization that has done this thing. That should resonate with you because you’re interested-“ My emphasis in nonprofits tends to be children and education. I believe children represent about 20% of today’s population, but they represent 100% of the future. It’s about children and educating them. If he can make that linkage, then he has connected the two of us. Then we can have that dialogue about how I might be able to help you or you might be able to help me. The third-party endorsement process is the best way to get donors, board members, committee members. It’s easier for me to say no to somebody I don’t know, trust, or like, than it is to say no to someone I know, trust, or like.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Ah. Point well taken. That’s sage advice. I can see why you’ve been very successful over the years. Starting a business, growing a business, and maintaining the viability of a business are three different things, aren’t they?</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> Oh yeah. Very much so. An entrepreneur needs to figure out pretty quickly, or even in a nonprofit, when you’re in that nonprofit in whatever role, if you want to be happy with what you do, it’s very important that you work in your flame and not in your wax. Let me explain that. When you’re working in your flame, you’re excited, you’re on fire, people can hear it in the way you speak, they can see it in the way you act. When you’re working in your wax, it takes all your energy away, people can hear it in your voice, and they can see it in the way you act.</p> <p>Over time, the things that are your flame- Let me speak for myself. The things that were my flame when I started BNI are no longer my flame. Many of those things, I don’t want to do them anymore. It’s very important to learn the skillset of how to delegate effectively, how to select the right people, delegate effectively, put them in charge of that area so that you can continue to work in your flame and not in your wax. 90% of my time is in my flame. This is the fourth interview I’ve done today. I’m sort of the Colonel Sanders of BNI now. I am the spokesman for networking.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. Tell us about your nonprofit that you founded.</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> I started the Misner Family Foundation and the BNI Foundation. Two different foundations we have created. Both focus on children and education. Misner Family Foundation is a private foundation for my family, supporting children and education. The BNI Foundation primarily supports children and education, and it’s the charitable arm of what BNI does. We do both activities to help kids locally as well as funding grants and things like that locally. BNIFoundation.org, you can find the website for it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> BNIFoundation.org. Think about a closing thought or a tip or challenge you’d like to give people who are listening to this. It could be years from now. We have been doing these interviews for six years, Ivan. We’ve had some incredible people.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from EZCard*</p> <p>Ivan Misner, I don’t know why you said yes to come on to my show today, but I’m glad you did. I wrote to you on LinkedIn, we had a short exchange, and you agreed. What thought or challenge or tip do you want to leave people with today?</p> <p><strong>Ivan:</strong> We are living through challenging times. I don’t know what our future holds, but I do know we can influence it. I do know we can make a difference in it. I also know that your mindset is so incredibly important. I think hope is much more powerful than fear. Fear paralyzes us. It freezes us. When we are afraid of what the future will hold or what will happen, we just freeze. What we need to do right now more than ever is focus, not freeze. That focus can come with hope. The only other thing you need to add to it is action. You have hope, and you take action. When you do those things, you can come out of times like this, and you can make it through times like this. Be creative. Be innovative. Think about what you can do. My nonprofit, the Austin Boys &amp; Girls Club, that I am on the board of, they created something called Club on the Go, where you can come by and pick up food that they package so there is still that social distancing. Be creative. Have hope. And influence your future. That is my closing thought.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Ivan Misner, you are a gift to all of us. Thank you for being on <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em> today.</p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Virtual Event Preview: Nonprofit Reactivation Symposium</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/virtual-event-preview-nonprofit-reactivation-symposium</link>
      <description>Organizational impact is a result of effective leadership!
     The SynerVision Leadership Nonprofit Reactivation Symposium is a one-day intensive virtual event for you to learn the skills to stand up or grow your nonprofit, recruit the right board and volunteers, create a winning strategy, and attract donors to support your mission.
 This symposium is designed to equip nonprofit leaders and clergy to break through barriers in performance for themselves, boards, staff, and volunteers; and to attract the funding to support the fulfillment of the organization's mission.
 To register for this Virtual Symposium go HERE
    
 Read the Preview Conversation Dr. Thyonne Gordon: Well, I guess we can introduce ourselves, huh? I am Dr. Thyonne Gordon. I am here in sunny Los Angeles, California. I am your story strategist. I help people with curating and creating the best story of their life, their project, their idea, their business. As Hugh continues to pull me back into the nonprofit world, I help nonprofits to curate their story of great success.
 Hugh Ballou: You’re so valuable to this sector. Let me introduce who’s here. We’re here to share with you. It’s a preview session. Thank you for being here today. Today is a special edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s thoughts, ideas, encouragement, empowerment, learning, examples to learn from. It’s people who have something to share. Everybody here has been a guest on previous episodes of the podcast. We’ll have some more people joining us. These are presenters for the Nonprofit Reactivation Symposium that will happen on May 1. I wanted the presenters to give you their story about what they’re going to share with you. Also, why did they want to show up?
 I am going to start with Dr. David Gruder. David, you’ve been with me doing this kind of stuff for a way long time, back since water. This is #27 of these live events. This one is the first one that is virtual, and it’s very different. It was the Leadership Empowerment Symposium for years. You and I started noodling on the title. Share a little bit about what we talk about and why we named this a reactivation symposium.
 Dr. David Gruder: Right. Well, first of all, it’s a pleasure to be here with you, Hugh, as always, and to be with these wonderful, esteemed colleagues who I so respect and appreciate and love. The changes that are going on in our society right now that have been brought to the forefront through the COVID-19 crisis are changes that have been under way for a while in a lower-key manner, that in a sense flew under the radar. Because of what’s been magnified through the COVID-19 crisis, we really are in the process of establishing what’s being called a new norm. Nonprofits are going to be dramatically impacted by this new norm. So what we at SynerVision Leadership Foundation are committed to doing is helping nonprofits stay ahead of that curve so that we craft the new norm together as the nonprofit world so that nonprofits can fill their proper place in the world in a more effective way in the new norm rather than be drowned out because of the craziness that is going on as the new norm emerges.
 Hugh: Craziness. Whoa. I love it. We were talking a little bit before we officially started. I had a technical glitch, and my Zoom disappeared off my computer. I am back. We were talking about being busier than ever. When somebody says, “Why do we need reactivation?” you are going to talk a little bit… Tell them about what you’re talking about.
 David: The topic I am going to be speaking on is reenvisioning leader development in the new normal. The things that have been emerging during this COVID crisis really illuminate the necessity of, I don’t want to be dramatic here too much, but pretty much an overhaul of the vision of what leadership is going to need to include that people were thinking of as optional before now. Now it’s mandatory. I am going to be covering four key areas of new norm leadership and leader development in my talk.
 Hugh: We won’t tell them exactly what that is yet.
 David: Ooh, it’s a secret. You have to show up to find out.
 Hugh: It’s a secret. Each of you have recorded a little promo that we have put out on the Internet and invited people to come. The latest one I got a few minutes ago was from Dr. Gordon. We have some California people here. David Gruder, you’re way south, Spanish-speaking San Diego. Thyonne, you’re a little north of there in Los Angeles. Talk a little bit about what you’re talking about, and why.
 Thyonne: Yes, I’m Dr. Thyonne. I will be talking about shifting your crisis story through board leadership. I’ll be speaking in regard to how boards and executive directors and organizations overall need to work together during the time of crisis more than ever. No matter what, board leaders and their executives should always be in mind step. But during a crisis, it’s really important for the board to step up and take their leadership role and do it in a more advanced way than they have in the past. I’ll be speaking about how board members can show up in that type of way.
 Hugh: We’ll be talking more about that. This is the special edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. This particular event, we have a key sponsor, EZ-Card. *Sponsor message from EZ-Card*
 We have Greg Sanders today. Greg represents the EZ-Card company. It’s his company. He founded it. But you’re not just a tech guy, are you? Just a little bit about Greg. Why are you supporting the work of SynerVision Leadership Foundation?
 Greg Sanders: I just want to say what a privilege it is first of all to be here. I understand this is a relatively informal gathering, so I did not wear a suit and tie. I agree with Dr. Gruder. This time is a time of transition. So many people are learning new technical skills, supportive technologies, to enable them to conduct business and do face-to-face meetings in this type of venue as opposed to meeting at Starbucks and going to live venues. Not just businesspeople, but their customers. If I am going to do an estimate and put a roof on your house, I am not going to come to your house anymore. I am going to ask you to hop on your phone or computer. The normal person on the street is also developing all of these online skills. So to David’s point about nonprofits, every nonprofit I’m aware of works with a skeleton crew. They are time-challenged and resource-challenged, and they probably don’t have time to think about what Dr. Gruder is going to talk about, which is how to rest and reshape and reform. They are trying to survive. Coming on Friday is so valuable.
 What we’re doing at EZ-Card is we are the supportive technology. I am not a major speaker. I will speak briefly about possibly using EZ-Card along with Zoom or other technologies which move your message forward in this particular environment. That is what EZ-Card is. I will be explaining the benefits of EZ-Card as a mobile app. When I think of a nonprofit, they have to get their message out. They have to raise money. They have to let their supporters know this is our valuable work we are doing day in and day out. Any video they can show where they are caring for children or at-risk populations, any way to get their message out there, and they can do that with EZ-Card on their phone. That is what we’ll be doing, and we are happy to support the event itself.
 If you’d like to look at it and share it with people to get there on Friday, you just text LDR, which is an abbreviation for leadership, to 64600. Two things will happen. You will get a link to your phone. You click the link, and the EZ-Card opens. It could take you to the SynerVision website. It could take you to details about Friday’s event. You can register. But it will also give Hugh and the leadership team your mobile number so they can send you text reminders about the event. Text LDR to 64600. We’d like to provide similar technology to any nonprofit if we can help you do what you do better and help you raise more money.
 Hugh: It’s an amazing tool. I know David Gruder has one. The others of you who have seen it. Sherita just saw it for the first time. Bob Hopkins out there in Big D, Dallas, Texas. You’re recording as you were wearing this ten-gallon hat. So passionate about philanthropy he even named his horse Philanthropy.
 Bob Hopkins: I did. I did, and I do.
 Hugh: It’s this kid who said to his dad, “Your ten-gallon hat won’t hold ten gallons; it only holds four quarts.” Tell us what you are going to talk about and why you want to talk about that.
 Bob: It changes every hour quite frankly. I just got off the television looking at the president of Brown University. By the way, universities are nonprofit organizations. Talking about how hundreds of thousands of colleges are going to stay afloat because they depend upon tuition, and lots of kids aren’t going back to school at this time because they don’t know what they’re going to do, and they don’t have jobs anymore. They won’t be able to afford to go. I’m sure every board of directors of every university or college in the country is madly trying to figure it out. One of the people I invited to come on Friday as a student is Alfonse Brown. He’s at a university in Florida, an African-American law university, the oldest one in the country. He has board meetings all day Friday and Saturday, trying to figure out what they are going to do in the fall. Not in the summer. We have already figured out the summer; we are doing Zoom, just like we’re doing now. What are they going to do in the fall with those huge buildings, with billions of square feet? With students, I have 22-24 students in my classroom. We cannot handle six feet apart. If every classroom doesn’t have 24-26, they will lose money. Thousands of colleges will have to close.
 Then I’m thinking about my students. My students have been introduced to the nonprofit sector in my class because I teach communications with a focus on nonprofit management. I’m thinking about them because what are they going to get out of it, and what message am I going to give them? I have a requirement that all my students come to this class on Friday. It’s half of their final. Then they have to write a critique on what they experienced, what they got out of it as 50 points, and they have to write their eulogy for the other 50 points. After this semester, they will probably want to die anyway, so their eulogy might be appropriate. I don’t know.
 I’m going to look at what you all are going to talk about, so I will try to fit in so I am not talking about the same thing. I listened to speaking about boards of directors as well as Thyonne. There are so many avenues of how to talk about boards of directors. How to get them, how to keep them, how many to get, what are their responsibilities, those kinds of things. I think, and you already messaged it to me right now, is how they will stay afloat. That’s what boards of directors are going to want to know when they come to see us when we are talking about nonprofit management and organizations. How are we going to stay afloat? What is the new normal going to be? I think that changes every day, too.
 We are supposed to in Texas open up last Friday. I went to the bank just now. There was one man in there without a mask on. I went to the president sitting in the corner and said, “Is it a requirement to wear masks now?” He said, “Yes, it is, but we’re not enforcing it. It’s a $1,000 fine, and we’re not enforcing it.” I said, “Why not? It’s a rule and a law. If I have to do it, they have to do it because I am not being protected, but they are being protected from me.” I tell you every minute I find something different. Our lives are going to change not just from the board level, but from the people who come to participate with us. All of them won’t be board members. They will be people who are not involved in the nonprofit sector as a living or in a vocation, but as maybe just a volunteer.
 Hugh: Bob and I met recently. My wife was going to Dallas for a conference at SMU. We were introduced by guests on my show who were the founders of Barefoot Winery. They accidentally founded a winery; it’s a great story. We connected. Bob, you have a book in your hand there?
 Bob: Hugh, I’m so sorry you asked. This is my book. It’s called Philanthropy Misunderstood. Is that appropriate for the time. I think it should be Management Misunderstood, Nonprofits Misunderstood, Our Planet Misunderstood. My next book will be called Philanthropy Understood. Hopefully in the next two years, we will figure that out.
 Hugh: Sherita and Thyonne will have some stories for you there. They have a massive amount of connections and nonprofits they have worked with. The new normal is you go into the bank with a mask on. It used to be when you walk into the bank with a mask on, they will be nervous. Now if you don’t have a mask on, they’re nervous. The new normal is opposite polarity.
 Bob: They are still nervous because they arrested two men and asked them to leave. Unfortunately, you people of color will understand this. These were two black men with two black masks on. The people behind the counter were uncomfortable with them and asked them to leave, not knowing if they had a billion dollars in the bank or whatever reason they were there. It didn’t matter. We have a lot of challenges coming up.
 Hugh: Sherita, on that happy note, tell folks- Bob has been a lifelong champion of nonprofits. He has been a CFRE with the fundraising professionals. He is a wee bit older than me. Finally I am in a group with one person who is my senior. My sister Sherita out there, where are you now? Arkansas?
 Sherita Herring: I am in Hattieville, Arkansas, of all names, right?
 Bob: I know Hattieville.
 Sherita: The fact that I am even here in Hattieville. When I was a young girl, do you guys remember Petticoat Junction? I used to want to live there. I loved Betty Jo, Billie Jo, Bobbie Jo, Uncle Joe. I loved the pig Arnold. Most people did not realize how much I am a country girl.
 I am telling you that story because what I am going to be talking about on Friday is there are grants that exist even now that will allow you to live your most unbelievable dreams. I am living my dream. I am sitting here on 30 acres of land that has been passed down in my family for over 100 years. It’s been almost 50 years since my great-grandfather passed away and anyone has lived here. It’s not a cliché for me. I am living my best life right now in an RV with chickens and Guinea, and he is out there spraying. That’s what I’ll be talking about. Thank you for having me on with these other experts, Hugh.
 Hugh: We have Wil Coleman. He is a great musician out there in Raleigh, North Carolina. We will hopefully have Dr. Williams here in just a minute.
 Sherita: He is coming on now.
 Hugh: We also have a presenter who is not here, Bishop Ebony Kirkland. If you go to the landing page for the symposium at NonprofitLeadership.live, I am watching my phone. People are registering. It’s exciting. We want to fill the house because there is so much important work to do. If you click on the pictures for these good-looking people, a video will pop up with an invitation as to what they are talking about in more detail and why you should come.
 This word “reactivation,” it’s a mystery word for some of us because we are working as hard as we can. It’s a new era. It’s an important era. Bob has invited students. He is in the classroom again. He’s worn a lot of hats. I gotta tell you, I have been in his class with his students. They come to our nonprofit leadership group on Thursdays. You are inspiring a new group of leaders, profound group of leaders coming up. There is a lot of untapped potential for people who might get overlooked. I remember, Bob, when I was 18, I had a chance to conduct when I was nothing but potential. Somebody like you believed in me. Somebody like you said, “Hugh, give it a go.” I was able to step up into a whole career.
 Let’s go back to David Gruder for a minute. I want to ask any of you to shout out when you can. This is such an important occasion. Bob just talked about colleges who are a specific type of nonprofit. Big universities with big budgets and a lot of foundations and history are having challenging times. Imagine a small community organization that wants to feed people, clothe people, house people. They are working on a bare strings budget. David, what’s important for our mindset? What’s important for how to equip ourselves to rethink leadership and our work?
 David: Oh my. Well, okay. Short version is that we need to shift our, what’s called in psychology, locus of control. Right now, in society, there is an external locus of control. What locus of control has to do with is how a person centers their ideas about where control lives. Right now, a lot of people are thinking that society and government and COVID-19 and external circumstances are the boss of them. That is a mindset that is a surefire recipe for victimization, powerlessness, and empty, unhelpful forms of rebellion. That has to shift into what in psychology is called an internal locus of control, where I’m the boss of the future I create. I’m the boss of my own stories that I tell myself and the emotions that I have and response to those stories and the words and actions that I say and do in response to the emotions I have about the stories I create. That is a skillset that is developable, and it is a crucial skillset, not only for leaders to embody, but for teams to be trained in how to do because without that, there will be no conscious, elevated, spiritual architecting of a new norm that is helpful to humanity rather than harmful to humanity.
 Hugh: David Gruder says things, and I say, “Gosh, I wish I would have put those words together like that.” He is a champion wordsmith. Anything else you want to share? Thyonne, I was so impressed by your short video. Of course, I was impressed by all of them, but yours is in mind because I got it most recently. It was passionate. You used to be part of a foundation that sent you out to do board capacity building. Why is it so important for us to learn ourselves as leaders, to equip ourselves as leaders to grow and engage our boards at a higher level?
 Thyonne: Thanks for the compliment on the video that you had me do at the last minute. It’s really important for us as leaders to engage and interact with our boards because our boards are what make our organizations. They hold the fiduciary responsibility for our nonprofit organizations, which means if they’re not working in step with the executives and the team at the organizational level, you absolutely could slip and fall. Your board is like your safety net. They are looking at things. Their role is to actually make sure the organization is staying afloat, is sustainable, is doing what it says it’s supposed to do, staying in line with the vision and the mission. Your board is your support system. It’s important for leaders to understand the relationship and the role they have with their board members.
 The foundation that I worked with prior was the Annenberg Foundation here in Los Angeles. We did do capacity-building by teaching board leaders how to work in alignment with the executive director. The program was called Alchemy. It was a magical program to bring together the executive director and a support person, or a champion, and the board chair. They had to come together in the program, which we would do quarterly. We came for classes and learning how to work together, how to build the capacity of the organization, and even how to fundraise. With them working hand in hand, they were able to have much higher success rates.
 It’s important for leaders to understand the importance of their board and what their board roles are. Especially with small organizations, when you start an organization, my mom is on the board, my brother is on the board, and my sister down north. They’re like, “Yeah, sure, you can put my name down.” They have no idea what it means to be responsible on a board. They don’t know anything about board governance. It’s important for leaders who want to start these nonprofits to understand your board is a serious thing. It’s not just your mom and grandma and everybody who said, “Yeah, we should do that. That sounds cool.” And you’re selling pies or chicken dinners or whatever it is to raise money. That’s great, but if you have a board who understands their fiduciary responsibility, they will say, “We can sell these chicken dinners, but we also have to expand and talk to somebody like Sherita about how we find grant funding and how we are in alignment with that and how we stay with our vision and our mission. If you’re working with saving the chickens, selling chicken dinners might not be a good idea.”
 Hugh: Absolutely.
 Thyonne: It’s important for us to know what we’re doing and that our boards know their roles.
 Hugh: I want to get Sherita on here for a minute. Sherita has some family issues, and she needs to go tend to some of those important things. She set you up for this thing that you are going to talk about. Everybody thinks there is grants, and it will be a smooth road going after them. You send in an application, and people will give you all this money. We have to learn some things as leaders, don’t we?
 Sherita: Yes. For one, grant funders are investors just like any other investor. People think that there is a magic potion or something when it comes to grants for the nonprofit arena. That’s why another time when Hugh and I worked together, and I wrote that article, “Nonprofit - The Stepchild of Business,” people treat a nonprofit like a side gig or a hobby. They don’t put much into it. They might submit one grant or two grants and don’t receive it and say, “See, everyone told me not to do this.” But they have been trying to get money for their for-profit business for 20 years and kept trying until they succeeded. They will not put much into the nonprofit arena but expect a greater return. That’s what tends to happen. When you’re going after grants, it’s a joint process with the executive or whoever they choose to work with the person that is writing the grants because even myself, I raised over $30 million. We developed over 600 organizations. But there is no way to just take it upon myself and write about my clients’ accomplishments without their assistance. I am very good at what I do, but I am only as good as the information received. People expect you to write a grant for a building, for the grant-writer to write about it without their input. The grant-writer doesn’t know their accomplishments, who they have worked with in the past as far as collaborations, their projects. It has to be a joint effort in order to make it happen.
 Yes, like you said, I lost a very dear uncle this morning. I tried to clear my calendar to be on here with you, but I got the call this morning that my uncle passed away. I am working on a couple of things.
 Before I leave, it’s also important for people. Just today or yesterday it was reported, a director of an ER committed suicide. She was in New York at a major hospital. Had contracted coronavirus herself while treating patients. Got well, went back to work, and yesterday, committed suicide.
 Organizations after every catastrophe, whether it is Katrina or the 1930s Depression, after every catastrophe, it doesn’t stop there. There is going to be an aftermath. There is cause and effect. Organizations are going to need to get prepared for depression, suicide prevention, PTSD, while also like professionals like ourselves, helping people to regain themselves after this. With every issue or problem, there is grant funding. That is why grants are there: to address problems and issues. This is why the nonprofit arena, and you hear about grants more during times like this. It’s not that it operates less. The nonprofit arena steps up more. It’s important to understand that, understand how you can stabilize your footing, and understand the process of how to go after funding in order to ride this wave. Yes, it is a negativity that is happening right now. Yes, we are losing lives. Yes, a lot of businesses are closed right now. If we understand how to ride the wave of what is happening right now in addition to knowing how to survive and move forward in it, that is what I will be talking about. I thank you for having me on, including me with these other experts.
 Wil, hi, how are you? It’s been years. Tell Pastor I said hello, and I do want to speak with you guys following on this. David Gruder, Greg, Thyonne, and Bob, I look forward to being with you on Friday. Have a very blessed day.
 Hugh: That was so profound. It’s time for some summary statements. I’d like to start with Bob Hopkins. Every time I talk to Bob, I am amazed at the depth of knowledge he has about a lot of different topics. He is living the sweet life. He could be tending his garden, but he is out there inspiring students and teaching. He has joined the SynerVision team and wants to help us take the magazine up another level and do some work with us. Blessings to you and sharing your gifts, and thank you for being a part of this presenting team. We are going to wrap up here and let everybody have a moment to say something. What would you like to add to the conversation?
 Bob: I’m anxious to read the content again of everybody and what we are going to do and where I fit in. I am going to be there for the entire time. A lot of it might be off the top of my head after I have learned what I have heard from you. I don’t want to go on a tangent that doesn’t have some relationship to what we are already talking about. I think as a time when we all speak for 20 minutes at a time, then I’m later on in the afternoon. I’m the last speaker. At least that was the schedule I saw.
 Hugh: I messed with it because we had some changes I had to make. I am going to send that out to you right after this session. You do have several times that you are going to be able to influence people and share some of your stuff. I have had to rework it. Our Bishop Kirkland in New York couldn’t be here today. She is sitting in New York talking to people about working together, collaborating. She is going to share with us Friday about that. We will get a report on how that is going in New York City.
 Bob, you could speak off the top of your head all day and not duplicate yourself. You have such a wealth of information. We are going to talk about philanthropy. His book is brilliant. He lifted it up before. Your book is 100-something stories of nonprofits and how philanthropy really works. We think we know what philanthropy is, but it really is different. How do boards connect with that? You have experience running nonprofits as well as being a resource to them. We have had to make the schedule a little fluid, but it’s not a whole lot different. I have moved you up in the day a little bit. Whenever you talk, people are going to listen. It’s like one of those big investment companies. When they talk, we all listen. Knowing that, you’re going to have great gifts to share. Don’t put yourself down. You have a lot of important stuff to share. Thank you for being part of this great presentation team.
 Bob: Thank you.
 Hugh: Greg Sanders. Why is the work of a nonprofit so important? Why are you sponsoring SynerVision?
 Greg: My mother and my father were both university teachers. My mom was in foreign languages, Spanish. My father was in music. I taught sociology for 30 years. I have a big heart for students who can’t figure out what the heck they are going to do with their lives when they are 18-22, which is an important thing I felt like I did when I was working at the university. Not just transmitting content, but helping people figure out their futures.
 I think about Dr. Gruder who is known for integrity. My feeling is that everything we do should be of service to other people. I love the nonprofit organization because they wear right on their sleeve that we are here to serve. Businesses should have that same mindset. If what you do is not improving the quality of life for other people, you should go do something else. That is what EZ-Card attempts to do. I tell people if you are going to build a house, you could do it with your bare hands, but it’s a lot better to do it with tools, even with power tools, because if you spend $1 on a power tool, it’s going to help you save hundreds of dollars in building that house. That is what we are trying to do at EZ-Card. If the technology fits and helps people to do what they have chosen to do to help other people in a more efficient manner, that is what we’re all about. I think we are right. We need to rethink the way we are doing everything, and we need to think about it in terms of helping other people.
 We are trying to make money during this period of time, but we are also caring for people. Just recently, I had one middle-aged adult talking about taking care of her 88-year-old mother right now and saying, “My mom was healthy. She went out with her friends. She went to restaurants. She had an active life. Now she is cooped up in her house and is wasting away. She is no longer actively engaging.” My advice is to maintain your normal life as best you can, even having to shelter in place. How can you maintain the routines? How can you maintain life as normal? It’s that kind of strategic thinking that nonprofit organizations have to be maintained in. You can’t do some things the way you did them before, but you can make a semblance of those activities and try to keep those healthy routines in place. I am privileged to be a part of it. We are trying to drive some traffic to what is happening on Friday from the EZ-Card side.
 Hugh: Text 64600 with LDR in the message. You will have the SynerVision card. Dr. Gordon, how would you like to close?
 Thyonne: Hugh, I hope you can keep David, Greg, Bob, and Wil because I plan on putting on my mask and kidnapping Bob from Texas. Bob, don’t pay attention. I am going to be grabbing you and bringing you to California.
 Bob: My bags are packed.
 Thyonne: I have already texted Greg’s site. I am excited about that. David, I know how I feel about you. Wil, I just met you. This is going to be an amazing symposium. I am excited to be part of it. Anyone who misses it, you are about to miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime. That is what we have to understand as nonprofit leaders and people in this space. I will speak as an African-American woman. This isn’t our first time in a crisis. We know how to get through a crisis. Nonprofits, we are used to not having a whole lot and making a lot happen. In this crisis, we are the leaders. We actually know what to do already. Our leadership style is what everybody else is trying to do. We have been doing this makeshift thing for a long time. We have such an opportunity to take this thing by the horns and make an opportunity of it.
 That is what I will talk about with the board leadership as well. When board leaders step up right now, there are all sorts of opportunities for us to come out of this thriving and leading during this crisis as well as through this crisis to help us get through it. There is so much opportunity. With the people who will be at this symposium, wow, you will get the ideas, the information. You will have the knowledge that you need to break through and make a change in your organization. I am excited. Hugh, let’s make it happen. Bob, don’t look for me, but I am coming to get you.
 Hugh: That’s awesome. You may have noticed some old white guy. Sometimes we’re clueless. Some of us know how to dress, but not me. Wil, did you say Pastor is on here? Blessings. Do you have a picture, or will you just talk to us?
 Dr. Kevin Williams: I am just going to talk to you. I don’t have a picture today.
 Hugh: Thank you for being here. All of us have crazy schedules. We have some awesome folks. You are going to talk about how Paul said be transformed by the renewal of your mind. Talk about the transformation that you are going to talk about. You will be square up at noon EST at the symposium. It’s the spot before we take a lunch break. Tell us why we need that and why you want to share that with people.
 Kevin: Right now, I think one of the greatest challenges that that could hinder any individual is to be stuck to an old way of thinking. Everything that has transpired recently has caused two waves of thought. One wave is people believing that things will go back to the way that they were, which is a very dangerous mindset. The other thought is understanding that they won’t go back to the way that they were, but also understand what is getting ready to come. Any time there is going to be advancement, either you are going to be a reactionary person or you will be an initiating individual. Thought leaders nowadays have to initiate so that we can provoke other people to initiate and not be reactionary. Usually, if you are reactionary, you are going to suffer the consequences of reacting.
 But when your mind is renewed, when Paul talks about that, he is talking about a renovation of taking out some old things, almost like renovating a house, taking out some old things and literally changing the scope of the house and the aspect of it so that it can meet your current needs. The same thing happens in the mind. If a person doesn’t transform their thinking and get out of the old stuck way of thinking, they are going to ultimately implode and damage themselves. But when an individual comes into a mind renewal, this is why symposiums like this are key and important, because what you have then is you have thought leaders who are ultimately like construction workers. What we’re doing is aiding the individual to renovate their thinking because in this renovation, people are not just going to learn about what’s new, but also learn the type of thinking they should have that has hurt them before but also is going to help them now because now we’re open to a new way of thinking. If you look at what’s happening with the United States, with the government, with the marketplace, everything is shifting. Look at stocks. Look at the different kinds of currency now, like cryptocurrency. All of these different things that are happening, our mind has to be renewed.
 The next thing is we have to make sure that we don’t fall into the hands of something that we don’t ascribe to because with all of this that is happening, by being a faith leader, I understand that God has an agenda. Even though God has a focus and a vision for all of us, so does the enemy. We have to make sure we are not operating in something that looks like it has a form of goodness, but denies the power thereof. As thought leaders, one of the things I believe that is important is that our thinking definitely has to change in order for us to be effective for this coming time and for this generation right now that is depending on us to see something for them that they cannot see for themselves.
 Hugh: Awesome. Dr. Williams, it’s been a few years, but you invited me down to work with your congregation. We did some leadership stuff. Wil and I did some music stuff. Also, the very first symposium happened in Greensboro at your church. Did you know that?
 Kevin: Wow. I knew that we did the symposium, but I didn’t know it was the first one.
 Hugh: That was a shorter one. It was an evening. You put out the word, and everybody came. I remember Bishop Willimon asked somebody why they came, and they said, “Pastor said to come.” He was quite impressed with that. This is #27. It’s changed a little bit. Of course, we can’t do it live right now, so we are doing it virtually. It’s a celebration of something we started in Greensboro at New Jerusalem Cathedral. Thank you for helping me launch this so many years ago.
 Kevin: Most definitely. I always want to be a part of things that you’re doing.
 Hugh: Blessings. You’ve been a blessing to me. Thank you for being here. You’re sharing it with your tribe. Bishop Kirkland is out here in New York City getting people to collaborate. She is doing some important work today. She will be with us on Friday. May 1. Be there. Thank you for getting in here. As we close out here, my brother David Gruder, you get the last spot. You know Dr. Williams, don’t you?
 David: Yes. We have not talked or seen each other for a number of years, but I am delighted to reconnect.
 Hugh: This has been a great conversation. What do you want to leave us with?
 David: What I want to leave you all with is a quote from a 20th century thought leader that many of you are familiar with by name at least, Buckminster Fuller. What Bucky Fuller said was, “The best way to predict the future is to invent it.” This Friday, we are going to be talking about how nonprofits get to invent their future in effective, useful ways. I am really looking forward to offering some key psychological foundations for inventing a new future.
 Hugh: And you have a book. Do you want to offer a virtual version of it? Tell us about that.
 David: Very briefly, yeah. I have been involved in one capacity or another with 24 books now. One of them is a book I was the psychology editor for called Transcendent Thought and Market Leadership. That is by Bruce Raymond Wright. I have been blessed by Bruce to be able to offer a digital copy of the book as a gift to everyone who attends the symposium on Friday.
 Hugh: We will have some other gifts, but that is a significant one. David, thank you for being here. Kevin, thank you for being here. Greg, thank you for being here. Bob, thank you for being here. Thyonne is going to capture you and take you to California. He can do a book signing there. He will do that in California. I look forward to putting a spin on nonprofit leadership in a good way and inspiring people to go out there and make a huge difference. Thank you so much for sharing today with everybody.
  
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      <pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:48:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/745e5cd4-b329-11eb-9f0f-ff51364c05eb/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Organizational impact is a result of effective leadership!     The SynerVision Leadership Nonprofit Reactivation Symposium is a one-day intensive virtual event for you to learn the skills to stand up or grow your nonprofit, recruit the right board and...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Organizational impact is a result of effective leadership!
     The SynerVision Leadership Nonprofit Reactivation Symposium is a one-day intensive virtual event for you to learn the skills to stand up or grow your nonprofit, recruit the right board and volunteers, create a winning strategy, and attract donors to support your mission.
 This symposium is designed to equip nonprofit leaders and clergy to break through barriers in performance for themselves, boards, staff, and volunteers; and to attract the funding to support the fulfillment of the organization's mission.
 To register for this Virtual Symposium go HERE
    
 Read the Preview Conversation Dr. Thyonne Gordon: Well, I guess we can introduce ourselves, huh? I am Dr. Thyonne Gordon. I am here in sunny Los Angeles, California. I am your story strategist. I help people with curating and creating the best story of their life, their project, their idea, their business. As Hugh continues to pull me back into the nonprofit world, I help nonprofits to curate their story of great success.
 Hugh Ballou: You’re so valuable to this sector. Let me introduce who’s here. We’re here to share with you. It’s a preview session. Thank you for being here today. Today is a special edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s thoughts, ideas, encouragement, empowerment, learning, examples to learn from. It’s people who have something to share. Everybody here has been a guest on previous episodes of the podcast. We’ll have some more people joining us. These are presenters for the Nonprofit Reactivation Symposium that will happen on May 1. I wanted the presenters to give you their story about what they’re going to share with you. Also, why did they want to show up?
 I am going to start with Dr. David Gruder. David, you’ve been with me doing this kind of stuff for a way long time, back since water. This is #27 of these live events. This one is the first one that is virtual, and it’s very different. It was the Leadership Empowerment Symposium for years. You and I started noodling on the title. Share a little bit about what we talk about and why we named this a reactivation symposium.
 Dr. David Gruder: Right. Well, first of all, it’s a pleasure to be here with you, Hugh, as always, and to be with these wonderful, esteemed colleagues who I so respect and appreciate and love. The changes that are going on in our society right now that have been brought to the forefront through the COVID-19 crisis are changes that have been under way for a while in a lower-key manner, that in a sense flew under the radar. Because of what’s been magnified through the COVID-19 crisis, we really are in the process of establishing what’s being called a new norm. Nonprofits are going to be dramatically impacted by this new norm. So what we at SynerVision Leadership Foundation are committed to doing is helping nonprofits stay ahead of that curve so that we craft the new norm together as the nonprofit world so that nonprofits can fill their proper place in the world in a more effective way in the new norm rather than be drowned out because of the craziness that is going on as the new norm emerges.
 Hugh: Craziness. Whoa. I love it. We were talking a little bit before we officially started. I had a technical glitch, and my Zoom disappeared off my computer. I am back. We were talking about being busier than ever. When somebody says, “Why do we need reactivation?” you are going to talk a little bit… Tell them about what you’re talking about.
 David: The topic I am going to be speaking on is reenvisioning leader development in the new normal. The things that have been emerging during this COVID crisis really illuminate the necessity of, I don’t want to be dramatic here too much, but pretty much an overhaul of the vision of what leadership is going to need to include that people were thinking of as optional before now. Now it’s mandatory. I am going to be covering four key areas of new norm leadership and leader development in my talk.
 Hugh: We won’t tell them exactly what that is yet.
 David: Ooh, it’s a secret. You have to show up to find out.
 Hugh: It’s a secret. Each of you have recorded a little promo that we have put out on the Internet and invited people to come. The latest one I got a few minutes ago was from Dr. Gordon. We have some California people here. David Gruder, you’re way south, Spanish-speaking San Diego. Thyonne, you’re a little north of there in Los Angeles. Talk a little bit about what you’re talking about, and why.
 Thyonne: Yes, I’m Dr. Thyonne. I will be talking about shifting your crisis story through board leadership. I’ll be speaking in regard to how boards and executive directors and organizations overall need to work together during the time of crisis more than ever. No matter what, board leaders and their executives should always be in mind step. But during a crisis, it’s really important for the board to step up and take their leadership role and do it in a more advanced way than they have in the past. I’ll be speaking about how board members can show up in that type of way.
 Hugh: We’ll be talking more about that. This is the special edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. This particular event, we have a key sponsor, EZ-Card. *Sponsor message from EZ-Card*
 We have Greg Sanders today. Greg represents the EZ-Card company. It’s his company. He founded it. But you’re not just a tech guy, are you? Just a little bit about Greg. Why are you supporting the work of SynerVision Leadership Foundation?
 Greg Sanders: I just want to say what a privilege it is first of all to be here. I understand this is a relatively informal gathering, so I did not wear a suit and tie. I agree with Dr. Gruder. This time is a time of transition. So many people are learning new technical skills, supportive technologies, to enable them to conduct business and do face-to-face meetings in this type of venue as opposed to meeting at Starbucks and going to live venues. Not just businesspeople, but their customers. If I am going to do an estimate and put a roof on your house, I am not going to come to your house anymore. I am going to ask you to hop on your phone or computer. The normal person on the street is also developing all of these online skills. So to David’s point about nonprofits, every nonprofit I’m aware of works with a skeleton crew. They are time-challenged and resource-challenged, and they probably don’t have time to think about what Dr. Gruder is going to talk about, which is how to rest and reshape and reform. They are trying to survive. Coming on Friday is so valuable.
 What we’re doing at EZ-Card is we are the supportive technology. I am not a major speaker. I will speak briefly about possibly using EZ-Card along with Zoom or other technologies which move your message forward in this particular environment. That is what EZ-Card is. I will be explaining the benefits of EZ-Card as a mobile app. When I think of a nonprofit, they have to get their message out. They have to raise money. They have to let their supporters know this is our valuable work we are doing day in and day out. Any video they can show where they are caring for children or at-risk populations, any way to get their message out there, and they can do that with EZ-Card on their phone. That is what we’ll be doing, and we are happy to support the event itself.
 If you’d like to look at it and share it with people to get there on Friday, you just text LDR, which is an abbreviation for leadership, to 64600. Two things will happen. You will get a link to your phone. You click the link, and the EZ-Card opens. It could take you to the SynerVision website. It could take you to details about Friday’s event. You can register. But it will also give Hugh and the leadership team your mobile number so they can send you text reminders about the event. Text LDR to 64600. We’d like to provide similar technology to any nonprofit if we can help you do what you do better and help you raise more money.
 Hugh: It’s an amazing tool. I know David Gruder has one. The others of you who have seen it. Sherita just saw it for the first time. Bob Hopkins out there in Big D, Dallas, Texas. You’re recording as you were wearing this ten-gallon hat. So passionate about philanthropy he even named his horse Philanthropy.
 Bob Hopkins: I did. I did, and I do.
 Hugh: It’s this kid who said to his dad, “Your ten-gallon hat won’t hold ten gallons; it only holds four quarts.” Tell us what you are going to talk about and why you want to talk about that.
 Bob: It changes every hour quite frankly. I just got off the television looking at the president of Brown University. By the way, universities are nonprofit organizations. Talking about how hundreds of thousands of colleges are going to stay afloat because they depend upon tuition, and lots of kids aren’t going back to school at this time because they don’t know what they’re going to do, and they don’t have jobs anymore. They won’t be able to afford to go. I’m sure every board of directors of every university or college in the country is madly trying to figure it out. One of the people I invited to come on Friday as a student is Alfonse Brown. He’s at a university in Florida, an African-American law university, the oldest one in the country. He has board meetings all day Friday and Saturday, trying to figure out what they are going to do in the fall. Not in the summer. We have already figured out the summer; we are doing Zoom, just like we’re doing now. What are they going to do in the fall with those huge buildings, with billions of square feet? With students, I have 22-24 students in my classroom. We cannot handle six feet apart. If every classroom doesn’t have 24-26, they will lose money. Thousands of colleges will have to close.
 Then I’m thinking about my students. My students have been introduced to the nonprofit sector in my class because I teach communications with a focus on nonprofit management. I’m thinking about them because what are they going to get out of it, and what message am I going to give them? I have a requirement that all my students come to this class on Friday. It’s half of their final. Then they have to write a critique on what they experienced, what they got out of it as 50 points, and they have to write their eulogy for the other 50 points. After this semester, they will probably want to die anyway, so their eulogy might be appropriate. I don’t know.
 I’m going to look at what you all are going to talk about, so I will try to fit in so I am not talking about the same thing. I listened to speaking about boards of directors as well as Thyonne. There are so many avenues of how to talk about boards of directors. How to get them, how to keep them, how many to get, what are their responsibilities, those kinds of things. I think, and you already messaged it to me right now, is how they will stay afloat. That’s what boards of directors are going to want to know when they come to see us when we are talking about nonprofit management and organizations. How are we going to stay afloat? What is the new normal going to be? I think that changes every day, too.
 We are supposed to in Texas open up last Friday. I went to the bank just now. There was one man in there without a mask on. I went to the president sitting in the corner and said, “Is it a requirement to wear masks now?” He said, “Yes, it is, but we’re not enforcing it. It’s a $1,000 fine, and we’re not enforcing it.” I said, “Why not? It’s a rule and a law. If I have to do it, they have to do it because I am not being protected, but they are being protected from me.” I tell you every minute I find something different. Our lives are going to change not just from the board level, but from the people who come to participate with us. All of them won’t be board members. They will be people who are not involved in the nonprofit sector as a living or in a vocation, but as maybe just a volunteer.
 Hugh: Bob and I met recently. My wife was going to Dallas for a conference at SMU. We were introduced by guests on my show who were the founders of Barefoot Winery. They accidentally founded a winery; it’s a great story. We connected. Bob, you have a book in your hand there?
 Bob: Hugh, I’m so sorry you asked. This is my book. It’s called Philanthropy Misunderstood. Is that appropriate for the time. I think it should be Management Misunderstood, Nonprofits Misunderstood, Our Planet Misunderstood. My next book will be called Philanthropy Understood. Hopefully in the next two years, we will figure that out.
 Hugh: Sherita and Thyonne will have some stories for you there. They have a massive amount of connections and nonprofits they have worked with. The new normal is you go into the bank with a mask on. It used to be when you walk into the bank with a mask on, they will be nervous. Now if you don’t have a mask on, they’re nervous. The new normal is opposite polarity.
 Bob: They are still nervous because they arrested two men and asked them to leave. Unfortunately, you people of color will understand this. These were two black men with two black masks on. The people behind the counter were uncomfortable with them and asked them to leave, not knowing if they had a billion dollars in the bank or whatever reason they were there. It didn’t matter. We have a lot of challenges coming up.
 Hugh: Sherita, on that happy note, tell folks- Bob has been a lifelong champion of nonprofits. He has been a CFRE with the fundraising professionals. He is a wee bit older than me. Finally I am in a group with one person who is my senior. My sister Sherita out there, where are you now? Arkansas?
 Sherita Herring: I am in Hattieville, Arkansas, of all names, right?
 Bob: I know Hattieville.
 Sherita: The fact that I am even here in Hattieville. When I was a young girl, do you guys remember Petticoat Junction? I used to want to live there. I loved Betty Jo, Billie Jo, Bobbie Jo, Uncle Joe. I loved the pig Arnold. Most people did not realize how much I am a country girl.
 I am telling you that story because what I am going to be talking about on Friday is there are grants that exist even now that will allow you to live your most unbelievable dreams. I am living my dream. I am sitting here on 30 acres of land that has been passed down in my family for over 100 years. It’s been almost 50 years since my great-grandfather passed away and anyone has lived here. It’s not a cliché for me. I am living my best life right now in an RV with chickens and Guinea, and he is out there spraying. That’s what I’ll be talking about. Thank you for having me on with these other experts, Hugh.
 Hugh: We have Wil Coleman. He is a great musician out there in Raleigh, North Carolina. We will hopefully have Dr. Williams here in just a minute.
 Sherita: He is coming on now.
 Hugh: We also have a presenter who is not here, Bishop Ebony Kirkland. If you go to the landing page for the symposium at NonprofitLeadership.live, I am watching my phone. People are registering. It’s exciting. We want to fill the house because there is so much important work to do. If you click on the pictures for these good-looking people, a video will pop up with an invitation as to what they are talking about in more detail and why you should come.
 This word “reactivation,” it’s a mystery word for some of us because we are working as hard as we can. It’s a new era. It’s an important era. Bob has invited students. He is in the classroom again. He’s worn a lot of hats. I gotta tell you, I have been in his class with his students. They come to our nonprofit leadership group on Thursdays. You are inspiring a new group of leaders, profound group of leaders coming up. There is a lot of untapped potential for people who might get overlooked. I remember, Bob, when I was 18, I had a chance to conduct when I was nothing but potential. Somebody like you believed in me. Somebody like you said, “Hugh, give it a go.” I was able to step up into a whole career.
 Let’s go back to David Gruder for a minute. I want to ask any of you to shout out when you can. This is such an important occasion. Bob just talked about colleges who are a specific type of nonprofit. Big universities with big budgets and a lot of foundations and history are having challenging times. Imagine a small community organization that wants to feed people, clothe people, house people. They are working on a bare strings budget. David, what’s important for our mindset? What’s important for how to equip ourselves to rethink leadership and our work?
 David: Oh my. Well, okay. Short version is that we need to shift our, what’s called in psychology, locus of control. Right now, in society, there is an external locus of control. What locus of control has to do with is how a person centers their ideas about where control lives. Right now, a lot of people are thinking that society and government and COVID-19 and external circumstances are the boss of them. That is a mindset that is a surefire recipe for victimization, powerlessness, and empty, unhelpful forms of rebellion. That has to shift into what in psychology is called an internal locus of control, where I’m the boss of the future I create. I’m the boss of my own stories that I tell myself and the emotions that I have and response to those stories and the words and actions that I say and do in response to the emotions I have about the stories I create. That is a skillset that is developable, and it is a crucial skillset, not only for leaders to embody, but for teams to be trained in how to do because without that, there will be no conscious, elevated, spiritual architecting of a new norm that is helpful to humanity rather than harmful to humanity.
 Hugh: David Gruder says things, and I say, “Gosh, I wish I would have put those words together like that.” He is a champion wordsmith. Anything else you want to share? Thyonne, I was so impressed by your short video. Of course, I was impressed by all of them, but yours is in mind because I got it most recently. It was passionate. You used to be part of a foundation that sent you out to do board capacity building. Why is it so important for us to learn ourselves as leaders, to equip ourselves as leaders to grow and engage our boards at a higher level?
 Thyonne: Thanks for the compliment on the video that you had me do at the last minute. It’s really important for us as leaders to engage and interact with our boards because our boards are what make our organizations. They hold the fiduciary responsibility for our nonprofit organizations, which means if they’re not working in step with the executives and the team at the organizational level, you absolutely could slip and fall. Your board is like your safety net. They are looking at things. Their role is to actually make sure the organization is staying afloat, is sustainable, is doing what it says it’s supposed to do, staying in line with the vision and the mission. Your board is your support system. It’s important for leaders to understand the relationship and the role they have with their board members.
 The foundation that I worked with prior was the Annenberg Foundation here in Los Angeles. We did do capacity-building by teaching board leaders how to work in alignment with the executive director. The program was called Alchemy. It was a magical program to bring together the executive director and a support person, or a champion, and the board chair. They had to come together in the program, which we would do quarterly. We came for classes and learning how to work together, how to build the capacity of the organization, and even how to fundraise. With them working hand in hand, they were able to have much higher success rates.
 It’s important for leaders to understand the importance of their board and what their board roles are. Especially with small organizations, when you start an organization, my mom is on the board, my brother is on the board, and my sister down north. They’re like, “Yeah, sure, you can put my name down.” They have no idea what it means to be responsible on a board. They don’t know anything about board governance. It’s important for leaders who want to start these nonprofits to understand your board is a serious thing. It’s not just your mom and grandma and everybody who said, “Yeah, we should do that. That sounds cool.” And you’re selling pies or chicken dinners or whatever it is to raise money. That’s great, but if you have a board who understands their fiduciary responsibility, they will say, “We can sell these chicken dinners, but we also have to expand and talk to somebody like Sherita about how we find grant funding and how we are in alignment with that and how we stay with our vision and our mission. If you’re working with saving the chickens, selling chicken dinners might not be a good idea.”
 Hugh: Absolutely.
 Thyonne: It’s important for us to know what we’re doing and that our boards know their roles.
 Hugh: I want to get Sherita on here for a minute. Sherita has some family issues, and she needs to go tend to some of those important things. She set you up for this thing that you are going to talk about. Everybody thinks there is grants, and it will be a smooth road going after them. You send in an application, and people will give you all this money. We have to learn some things as leaders, don’t we?
 Sherita: Yes. For one, grant funders are investors just like any other investor. People think that there is a magic potion or something when it comes to grants for the nonprofit arena. That’s why another time when Hugh and I worked together, and I wrote that article, “Nonprofit - The Stepchild of Business,” people treat a nonprofit like a side gig or a hobby. They don’t put much into it. They might submit one grant or two grants and don’t receive it and say, “See, everyone told me not to do this.” But they have been trying to get money for their for-profit business for 20 years and kept trying until they succeeded. They will not put much into the nonprofit arena but expect a greater return. That’s what tends to happen. When you’re going after grants, it’s a joint process with the executive or whoever they choose to work with the person that is writing the grants because even myself, I raised over $30 million. We developed over 600 organizations. But there is no way to just take it upon myself and write about my clients’ accomplishments without their assistance. I am very good at what I do, but I am only as good as the information received. People expect you to write a grant for a building, for the grant-writer to write about it without their input. The grant-writer doesn’t know their accomplishments, who they have worked with in the past as far as collaborations, their projects. It has to be a joint effort in order to make it happen.
 Yes, like you said, I lost a very dear uncle this morning. I tried to clear my calendar to be on here with you, but I got the call this morning that my uncle passed away. I am working on a couple of things.
 Before I leave, it’s also important for people. Just today or yesterday it was reported, a director of an ER committed suicide. She was in New York at a major hospital. Had contracted coronavirus herself while treating patients. Got well, went back to work, and yesterday, committed suicide.
 Organizations after every catastrophe, whether it is Katrina or the 1930s Depression, after every catastrophe, it doesn’t stop there. There is going to be an aftermath. There is cause and effect. Organizations are going to need to get prepared for depression, suicide prevention, PTSD, while also like professionals like ourselves, helping people to regain themselves after this. With every issue or problem, there is grant funding. That is why grants are there: to address problems and issues. This is why the nonprofit arena, and you hear about grants more during times like this. It’s not that it operates less. The nonprofit arena steps up more. It’s important to understand that, understand how you can stabilize your footing, and understand the process of how to go after funding in order to ride this wave. Yes, it is a negativity that is happening right now. Yes, we are losing lives. Yes, a lot of businesses are closed right now. If we understand how to ride the wave of what is happening right now in addition to knowing how to survive and move forward in it, that is what I will be talking about. I thank you for having me on, including me with these other experts.
 Wil, hi, how are you? It’s been years. Tell Pastor I said hello, and I do want to speak with you guys following on this. David Gruder, Greg, Thyonne, and Bob, I look forward to being with you on Friday. Have a very blessed day.
 Hugh: That was so profound. It’s time for some summary statements. I’d like to start with Bob Hopkins. Every time I talk to Bob, I am amazed at the depth of knowledge he has about a lot of different topics. He is living the sweet life. He could be tending his garden, but he is out there inspiring students and teaching. He has joined the SynerVision team and wants to help us take the magazine up another level and do some work with us. Blessings to you and sharing your gifts, and thank you for being a part of this presenting team. We are going to wrap up here and let everybody have a moment to say something. What would you like to add to the conversation?
 Bob: I’m anxious to read the content again of everybody and what we are going to do and where I fit in. I am going to be there for the entire time. A lot of it might be off the top of my head after I have learned what I have heard from you. I don’t want to go on a tangent that doesn’t have some relationship to what we are already talking about. I think as a time when we all speak for 20 minutes at a time, then I’m later on in the afternoon. I’m the last speaker. At least that was the schedule I saw.
 Hugh: I messed with it because we had some changes I had to make. I am going to send that out to you right after this session. You do have several times that you are going to be able to influence people and share some of your stuff. I have had to rework it. Our Bishop Kirkland in New York couldn’t be here today. She is sitting in New York talking to people about working together, collaborating. She is going to share with us Friday about that. We will get a report on how that is going in New York City.
 Bob, you could speak off the top of your head all day and not duplicate yourself. You have such a wealth of information. We are going to talk about philanthropy. His book is brilliant. He lifted it up before. Your book is 100-something stories of nonprofits and how philanthropy really works. We think we know what philanthropy is, but it really is different. How do boards connect with that? You have experience running nonprofits as well as being a resource to them. We have had to make the schedule a little fluid, but it’s not a whole lot different. I have moved you up in the day a little bit. Whenever you talk, people are going to listen. It’s like one of those big investment companies. When they talk, we all listen. Knowing that, you’re going to have great gifts to share. Don’t put yourself down. You have a lot of important stuff to share. Thank you for being part of this great presentation team.
 Bob: Thank you.
 Hugh: Greg Sanders. Why is the work of a nonprofit so important? Why are you sponsoring SynerVision?
 Greg: My mother and my father were both university teachers. My mom was in foreign languages, Spanish. My father was in music. I taught sociology for 30 years. I have a big heart for students who can’t figure out what the heck they are going to do with their lives when they are 18-22, which is an important thing I felt like I did when I was working at the university. Not just transmitting content, but helping people figure out their futures.
 I think about Dr. Gruder who is known for integrity. My feeling is that everything we do should be of service to other people. I love the nonprofit organization because they wear right on their sleeve that we are here to serve. Businesses should have that same mindset. If what you do is not improving the quality of life for other people, you should go do something else. That is what EZ-Card attempts to do. I tell people if you are going to build a house, you could do it with your bare hands, but it’s a lot better to do it with tools, even with power tools, because if you spend $1 on a power tool, it’s going to help you save hundreds of dollars in building that house. That is what we are trying to do at EZ-Card. If the technology fits and helps people to do what they have chosen to do to help other people in a more efficient manner, that is what we’re all about. I think we are right. We need to rethink the way we are doing everything, and we need to think about it in terms of helping other people.
 We are trying to make money during this period of time, but we are also caring for people. Just recently, I had one middle-aged adult talking about taking care of her 88-year-old mother right now and saying, “My mom was healthy. She went out with her friends. She went to restaurants. She had an active life. Now she is cooped up in her house and is wasting away. She is no longer actively engaging.” My advice is to maintain your normal life as best you can, even having to shelter in place. How can you maintain the routines? How can you maintain life as normal? It’s that kind of strategic thinking that nonprofit organizations have to be maintained in. You can’t do some things the way you did them before, but you can make a semblance of those activities and try to keep those healthy routines in place. I am privileged to be a part of it. We are trying to drive some traffic to what is happening on Friday from the EZ-Card side.
 Hugh: Text 64600 with LDR in the message. You will have the SynerVision card. Dr. Gordon, how would you like to close?
 Thyonne: Hugh, I hope you can keep David, Greg, Bob, and Wil because I plan on putting on my mask and kidnapping Bob from Texas. Bob, don’t pay attention. I am going to be grabbing you and bringing you to California.
 Bob: My bags are packed.
 Thyonne: I have already texted Greg’s site. I am excited about that. David, I know how I feel about you. Wil, I just met you. This is going to be an amazing symposium. I am excited to be part of it. Anyone who misses it, you are about to miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime. That is what we have to understand as nonprofit leaders and people in this space. I will speak as an African-American woman. This isn’t our first time in a crisis. We know how to get through a crisis. Nonprofits, we are used to not having a whole lot and making a lot happen. In this crisis, we are the leaders. We actually know what to do already. Our leadership style is what everybody else is trying to do. We have been doing this makeshift thing for a long time. We have such an opportunity to take this thing by the horns and make an opportunity of it.
 That is what I will talk about with the board leadership as well. When board leaders step up right now, there are all sorts of opportunities for us to come out of this thriving and leading during this crisis as well as through this crisis to help us get through it. There is so much opportunity. With the people who will be at this symposium, wow, you will get the ideas, the information. You will have the knowledge that you need to break through and make a change in your organization. I am excited. Hugh, let’s make it happen. Bob, don’t look for me, but I am coming to get you.
 Hugh: That’s awesome. You may have noticed some old white guy. Sometimes we’re clueless. Some of us know how to dress, but not me. Wil, did you say Pastor is on here? Blessings. Do you have a picture, or will you just talk to us?
 Dr. Kevin Williams: I am just going to talk to you. I don’t have a picture today.
 Hugh: Thank you for being here. All of us have crazy schedules. We have some awesome folks. You are going to talk about how Paul said be transformed by the renewal of your mind. Talk about the transformation that you are going to talk about. You will be square up at noon EST at the symposium. It’s the spot before we take a lunch break. Tell us why we need that and why you want to share that with people.
 Kevin: Right now, I think one of the greatest challenges that that could hinder any individual is to be stuck to an old way of thinking. Everything that has transpired recently has caused two waves of thought. One wave is people believing that things will go back to the way that they were, which is a very dangerous mindset. The other thought is understanding that they won’t go back to the way that they were, but also understand what is getting ready to come. Any time there is going to be advancement, either you are going to be a reactionary person or you will be an initiating individual. Thought leaders nowadays have to initiate so that we can provoke other people to initiate and not be reactionary. Usually, if you are reactionary, you are going to suffer the consequences of reacting.
 But when your mind is renewed, when Paul talks about that, he is talking about a renovation of taking out some old things, almost like renovating a house, taking out some old things and literally changing the scope of the house and the aspect of it so that it can meet your current needs. The same thing happens in the mind. If a person doesn’t transform their thinking and get out of the old stuck way of thinking, they are going to ultimately implode and damage themselves. But when an individual comes into a mind renewal, this is why symposiums like this are key and important, because what you have then is you have thought leaders who are ultimately like construction workers. What we’re doing is aiding the individual to renovate their thinking because in this renovation, people are not just going to learn about what’s new, but also learn the type of thinking they should have that has hurt them before but also is going to help them now because now we’re open to a new way of thinking. If you look at what’s happening with the United States, with the government, with the marketplace, everything is shifting. Look at stocks. Look at the different kinds of currency now, like cryptocurrency. All of these different things that are happening, our mind has to be renewed.
 The next thing is we have to make sure that we don’t fall into the hands of something that we don’t ascribe to because with all of this that is happening, by being a faith leader, I understand that God has an agenda. Even though God has a focus and a vision for all of us, so does the enemy. We have to make sure we are not operating in something that looks like it has a form of goodness, but denies the power thereof. As thought leaders, one of the things I believe that is important is that our thinking definitely has to change in order for us to be effective for this coming time and for this generation right now that is depending on us to see something for them that they cannot see for themselves.
 Hugh: Awesome. Dr. Williams, it’s been a few years, but you invited me down to work with your congregation. We did some leadership stuff. Wil and I did some music stuff. Also, the very first symposium happened in Greensboro at your church. Did you know that?
 Kevin: Wow. I knew that we did the symposium, but I didn’t know it was the first one.
 Hugh: That was a shorter one. It was an evening. You put out the word, and everybody came. I remember Bishop Willimon asked somebody why they came, and they said, “Pastor said to come.” He was quite impressed with that. This is #27. It’s changed a little bit. Of course, we can’t do it live right now, so we are doing it virtually. It’s a celebration of something we started in Greensboro at New Jerusalem Cathedral. Thank you for helping me launch this so many years ago.
 Kevin: Most definitely. I always want to be a part of things that you’re doing.
 Hugh: Blessings. You’ve been a blessing to me. Thank you for being here. You’re sharing it with your tribe. Bishop Kirkland is out here in New York City getting people to collaborate. She is doing some important work today. She will be with us on Friday. May 1. Be there. Thank you for getting in here. As we close out here, my brother David Gruder, you get the last spot. You know Dr. Williams, don’t you?
 David: Yes. We have not talked or seen each other for a number of years, but I am delighted to reconnect.
 Hugh: This has been a great conversation. What do you want to leave us with?
 David: What I want to leave you all with is a quote from a 20th century thought leader that many of you are familiar with by name at least, Buckminster Fuller. What Bucky Fuller said was, “The best way to predict the future is to invent it.” This Friday, we are going to be talking about how nonprofits get to invent their future in effective, useful ways. I am really looking forward to offering some key psychological foundations for inventing a new future.
 Hugh: And you have a book. Do you want to offer a virtual version of it? Tell us about that.
 David: Very briefly, yeah. I have been involved in one capacity or another with 24 books now. One of them is a book I was the psychology editor for called Transcendent Thought and Market Leadership. That is by Bruce Raymond Wright. I have been blessed by Bruce to be able to offer a digital copy of the book as a gift to everyone who attends the symposium on Friday.
 Hugh: We will have some other gifts, but that is a significant one. David, thank you for being here. Kevin, thank you for being here. Greg, thank you for being here. Bob, thank you for being here. Thyonne is going to capture you and take you to California. He can do a book signing there. He will do that in California. I look forward to putting a spin on nonprofit leadership in a good way and inspiring people to go out there and make a huge difference. Thank you so much for sharing today with everybody.
  
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        <![CDATA[  <p><strong>Organizational impact is a result of effective leadership!</strong></p>     <p>The <strong>SynerVision Leadership Nonprofit Reactivation Symposium</strong> is a one-day intensive virtual event for you to learn the skills to stand up or grow your nonprofit, recruit the right board and volunteers, create a winning strategy, and attract donors to support your mission.</p> <p>This symposium is designed to equip nonprofit leaders and clergy to break through barriers in performance for themselves, boards, staff, and volunteers; and to attract the funding to support the fulfillment of the organization's mission.</p> <p>To register for this Virtual Symposium go <strong><a href="https://synervision.kartra.com/page/VirtualSummit">HERE</a></strong></p>   <p> </p> Read the Preview Conversation <p><strong>Dr. Thyonne Gordon:</strong> Well, I guess we can introduce ourselves, huh? I am Dr. Thyonne Gordon. I am here in sunny Los Angeles, California. I am your story strategist. I help people with curating and creating the best story of their life, their project, their idea, their business. As Hugh continues to pull me back into the nonprofit world, I help nonprofits to curate their story of great success.</p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> You’re so valuable to this sector. Let me introduce who’s here. We’re here to share with you. It’s a preview session. Thank you for being here today. Today is a special edition of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> It’s thoughts, ideas, encouragement, empowerment, learning, examples to learn from. It’s people who have something to share. Everybody here has been a guest on previous episodes of the podcast. We’ll have some more people joining us. These are presenters for the Nonprofit Reactivation Symposium that will happen on May 1. I wanted the presenters to give you their story about what they’re going to share with you. Also, why did they want to show up?</p> <p>I am going to start with Dr. David Gruder. David, you’ve been with me doing this kind of stuff for a way long time, back since water. This is #27 of these live events. This one is the first one that is virtual, and it’s very different. It was the Leadership Empowerment Symposium for years. You and I started noodling on the title. Share a little bit about what we talk about and why we named this a reactivation symposium.</p> <p><strong>Dr. David Gruder:</strong> Right. Well, first of all, it’s a pleasure to be here with you, Hugh, as always, and to be with these wonderful, esteemed colleagues who I so respect and appreciate and love. The changes that are going on in our society right now that have been brought to the forefront through the COVID-19 crisis are changes that have been under way for a while in a lower-key manner, that in a sense flew under the radar. Because of what’s been magnified through the COVID-19 crisis, we really are in the process of establishing what’s being called a new norm. Nonprofits are going to be dramatically impacted by this new norm. So what we at SynerVision Leadership Foundation are committed to doing is helping nonprofits stay ahead of that curve so that we craft the new norm together as the nonprofit world so that nonprofits can fill their proper place in the world in a more effective way in the new norm rather than be drowned out because of the craziness that is going on as the new norm emerges.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Craziness. Whoa. I love it. We were talking a little bit before we officially started. I had a technical glitch, and my Zoom disappeared off my computer. I am back. We were talking about being busier than ever. When somebody says, “Why do we need reactivation?” you are going to talk a little bit… Tell them about what you’re talking about.</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> The topic I am going to be speaking on is reenvisioning leader development in the new normal. The things that have been emerging during this COVID crisis really illuminate the necessity of, I don’t want to be dramatic here too much, but pretty much an overhaul of the vision of what leadership is going to need to include that people were thinking of as optional before now. Now it’s mandatory. I am going to be covering four key areas of new norm leadership and leader development in my talk.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We won’t tell them exactly what that is yet.</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> Ooh, it’s a secret. You have to show up to find out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s a secret. Each of you have recorded a little promo that we have put out on the Internet and invited people to come. The latest one I got a few minutes ago was from Dr. Gordon. We have some California people here. David Gruder, you’re way south, Spanish-speaking San Diego. Thyonne, you’re a little north of there in Los Angeles. Talk a little bit about what you’re talking about, and why.</p> <p><strong>Thyonne:</strong> Yes, I’m Dr. Thyonne. I will be talking about shifting your crisis story through board leadership. I’ll be speaking in regard to how boards and executive directors and organizations overall need to work together during the time of crisis more than ever. No matter what, board leaders and their executives should always be in mind step. But during a crisis, it’s really important for the board to step up and take their leadership role and do it in a more advanced way than they have in the past. I’ll be speaking about how board members can show up in that type of way.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’ll be talking more about that. This is the special edition of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> This particular event, we have a key sponsor, EZ-Card. *Sponsor message from EZ-Card*</p> <p>We have Greg Sanders today. Greg represents the EZ-Card company. It’s his company. He founded it. But you’re not just a tech guy, are you? Just a little bit about Greg. Why are you supporting the work of SynerVision Leadership Foundation?</p> <p><strong>Greg Sanders:</strong> I just want to say what a privilege it is first of all to be here. I understand this is a relatively informal gathering, so I did not wear a suit and tie. I agree with Dr. Gruder. This time is a time of transition. So many people are learning new technical skills, supportive technologies, to enable them to conduct business and do face-to-face meetings in this type of venue as opposed to meeting at Starbucks and going to live venues. Not just businesspeople, but their customers. If I am going to do an estimate and put a roof on your house, I am not going to come to your house anymore. I am going to ask you to hop on your phone or computer. The normal person on the street is also developing all of these online skills. So to David’s point about nonprofits, every nonprofit I’m aware of works with a skeleton crew. They are time-challenged and resource-challenged, and they probably don’t have time to think about what Dr. Gruder is going to talk about, which is how to rest and reshape and reform. They are trying to survive. Coming on Friday is so valuable.</p> <p>What we’re doing at EZ-Card is we are the supportive technology. I am not a major speaker. I will speak briefly about possibly using EZ-Card along with Zoom or other technologies which move your message forward in this particular environment. That is what EZ-Card is. I will be explaining the benefits of EZ-Card as a mobile app. When I think of a nonprofit, they have to get their message out. They have to raise money. They have to let their supporters know this is our valuable work we are doing day in and day out. Any video they can show where they are caring for children or at-risk populations, any way to get their message out there, and they can do that with EZ-Card on their phone. That is what we’ll be doing, and we are happy to support the event itself.</p> <p>If you’d like to look at it and share it with people to get there on Friday, you just text LDR, which is an abbreviation for leadership, to 64600. Two things will happen. You will get a link to your phone. You click the link, and the EZ-Card opens. It could take you to the SynerVision website. It could take you to details about Friday’s event. You can register. But it will also give Hugh and the leadership team your mobile number so they can send you text reminders about the event. Text LDR to 64600. We’d like to provide similar technology to any nonprofit if we can help you do what you do better and help you raise more money.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s an amazing tool. I know David Gruder has one. The others of you who have seen it. Sherita just saw it for the first time. Bob Hopkins out there in Big D, Dallas, Texas. You’re recording as you were wearing this ten-gallon hat. So passionate about philanthropy he even named his horse Philanthropy.</p> <p><strong>Bob Hopkins:</strong> I did. I did, and I do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s this kid who said to his dad, “Your ten-gallon hat won’t hold ten gallons; it only holds four quarts.” Tell us what you are going to talk about and why you want to talk about that.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> It changes every hour quite frankly. I just got off the television looking at the president of Brown University. By the way, universities are nonprofit organizations. Talking about how hundreds of thousands of colleges are going to stay afloat because they depend upon tuition, and lots of kids aren’t going back to school at this time because they don’t know what they’re going to do, and they don’t have jobs anymore. They won’t be able to afford to go. I’m sure every board of directors of every university or college in the country is madly trying to figure it out. One of the people I invited to come on Friday as a student is Alfonse Brown. He’s at a university in Florida, an African-American law university, the oldest one in the country. He has board meetings all day Friday and Saturday, trying to figure out what they are going to do in the fall. Not in the summer. We have already figured out the summer; we are doing Zoom, just like we’re doing now. What are they going to do in the fall with those huge buildings, with billions of square feet? With students, I have 22-24 students in my classroom. We cannot handle six feet apart. If every classroom doesn’t have 24-26, they will lose money. Thousands of colleges will have to close.</p> <p>Then I’m thinking about my students. My students have been introduced to the nonprofit sector in my class because I teach communications with a focus on nonprofit management. I’m thinking about them because what are they going to get out of it, and what message am I going to give them? I have a requirement that all my students come to this class on Friday. It’s half of their final. Then they have to write a critique on what they experienced, what they got out of it as 50 points, and they have to write their eulogy for the other 50 points. After this semester, they will probably want to die anyway, so their eulogy might be appropriate. I don’t know.</p> <p>I’m going to look at what you all are going to talk about, so I will try to fit in so I am not talking about the same thing. I listened to speaking about boards of directors as well as Thyonne. There are so many avenues of how to talk about boards of directors. How to get them, how to keep them, how many to get, what are their responsibilities, those kinds of things. I think, and you already messaged it to me right now, is how they will stay afloat. That’s what boards of directors are going to want to know when they come to see us when we are talking about nonprofit management and organizations. How are we going to stay afloat? What is the new normal going to be? I think that changes every day, too.</p> <p>We are supposed to in Texas open up last Friday. I went to the bank just now. There was one man in there without a mask on. I went to the president sitting in the corner and said, “Is it a requirement to wear masks now?” He said, “Yes, it is, but we’re not enforcing it. It’s a $1,000 fine, and we’re not enforcing it.” I said, “Why not? It’s a rule and a law. If I have to do it, they have to do it because I am not being protected, but they are being protected from me.” I tell you every minute I find something different. Our lives are going to change not just from the board level, but from the people who come to participate with us. All of them won’t be board members. They will be people who are not involved in the nonprofit sector as a living or in a vocation, but as maybe just a volunteer.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Bob and I met recently. My wife was going to Dallas for a conference at SMU. We were introduced by guests on my show who were the founders of Barefoot Winery. They accidentally founded a winery; it’s a great story. We connected. Bob, you have a book in your hand there?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> Hugh, I’m so sorry you asked. This is my book. It’s called <em>Philanthropy Misunderstood.</em> Is that appropriate for the time. I think it should be Management Misunderstood, Nonprofits Misunderstood, Our Planet Misunderstood<em>.</em> My next book will be called <em>Philanthropy Understood.</em> Hopefully in the next two years, we will figure that out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Sherita and Thyonne will have some stories for you there. They have a massive amount of connections and nonprofits they have worked with. The new normal is you go into the bank with a mask on. It used to be when you walk into the bank with a mask on, they will be nervous. Now if you don’t have a mask on, they’re nervous. The new normal is opposite polarity.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> They are still nervous because they arrested two men and asked them to leave. Unfortunately, you people of color will understand this. These were two black men with two black masks on. The people behind the counter were uncomfortable with them and asked them to leave, not knowing if they had a billion dollars in the bank or whatever reason they were there. It didn’t matter. We have a lot of challenges coming up.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Sherita, on that happy note, tell folks- Bob has been a lifelong champion of nonprofits. He has been a CFRE with the fundraising professionals. He is a wee bit older than me. Finally I am in a group with one person who is my senior. My sister Sherita out there, where are you now? Arkansas?</p> <p><strong>Sherita Herring:</strong> I am in Hattieville, Arkansas, of all names, right?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I know Hattieville.</p> <p><strong>Sherita:</strong> The fact that I am even here in Hattieville. When I was a young girl, do you guys remember <em>Petticoat</em> <em>Junction</em>? I used to want to live there. I loved Betty Jo, Billie Jo, Bobbie Jo, Uncle Joe. I loved the pig Arnold. Most people did not realize how much I am a country girl.</p> <p>I am telling you that story because what I am going to be talking about on Friday is there are grants that exist even now that will allow you to live your most unbelievable dreams. I am living my dream. I am sitting here on 30 acres of land that has been passed down in my family for over 100 years. It’s been almost 50 years since my great-grandfather passed away and anyone has lived here. It’s not a cliché for me. I am living my best life right now in an RV with chickens and Guinea, and he is out there spraying. That’s what I’ll be talking about. Thank you for having me on with these other experts, Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have Wil Coleman. He is a great musician out there in Raleigh, North Carolina. We will hopefully have Dr. Williams here in just a minute.</p> <p><strong>Sherita:</strong> He is coming on now.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We also have a presenter who is not here, Bishop Ebony Kirkland. If you go to the landing page for the symposium at NonprofitLeadership.live, I am watching my phone. People are registering. It’s exciting. We want to fill the house because there is so much important work to do. If you click on the pictures for these good-looking people, a video will pop up with an invitation as to what they are talking about in more detail and why you should come.</p> <p>This word “reactivation,” it’s a mystery word for some of us because we are working as hard as we can. It’s a new era. It’s an important era. Bob has invited students. He is in the classroom again. He’s worn a lot of hats. I gotta tell you, I have been in his class with his students. They come to our nonprofit leadership group on Thursdays. You are inspiring a new group of leaders, profound group of leaders coming up. There is a lot of untapped potential for people who might get overlooked. I remember, Bob, when I was 18, I had a chance to conduct when I was nothing but potential. Somebody like you believed in me. Somebody like you said, “Hugh, give it a go.” I was able to step up into a whole career.</p> <p>Let’s go back to David Gruder for a minute. I want to ask any of you to shout out when you can. This is such an important occasion. Bob just talked about colleges who are a specific type of nonprofit. Big universities with big budgets and a lot of foundations and history are having challenging times. Imagine a small community organization that wants to feed people, clothe people, house people. They are working on a bare strings budget. David, what’s important for our mindset? What’s important for how to equip ourselves to rethink leadership and our work?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> Oh my. Well, okay. Short version is that we need to shift our, what’s called in psychology, locus of control. Right now, in society, there is an external locus of control. What locus of control has to do with is how a person centers their ideas about where control lives. Right now, a lot of people are thinking that society and government and COVID-19 and external circumstances are the boss of them. That is a mindset that is a surefire recipe for victimization, powerlessness, and empty, unhelpful forms of rebellion. That has to shift into what in psychology is called an internal locus of control, where I’m the boss of the future I create. I’m the boss of my own stories that I tell myself and the emotions that I have and response to those stories and the words and actions that I say and do in response to the emotions I have about the stories I create. That is a skillset that is developable, and it is a crucial skillset, not only for leaders to embody, but for teams to be trained in how to do because without that, there will be no conscious, elevated, spiritual architecting of a new norm that is helpful to humanity rather than harmful to humanity.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> David Gruder says things, and I say, “Gosh, I wish I would have put those words together like that.” He is a champion wordsmith. Anything else you want to share? Thyonne, I was so impressed by your short video. Of course, I was impressed by all of them, but yours is in mind because I got it most recently. It was passionate. You used to be part of a foundation that sent you out to do board capacity building. Why is it so important for us to learn ourselves as leaders, to equip ourselves as leaders to grow and engage our boards at a higher level?</p> <p><strong>Thyonne:</strong> Thanks for the compliment on the video that you had me do at the last minute. It’s really important for us as leaders to engage and interact with our boards because our boards are what make our organizations. They hold the fiduciary responsibility for our nonprofit organizations, which means if they’re not working in step with the executives and the team at the organizational level, you absolutely could slip and fall. Your board is like your safety net. They are looking at things. Their role is to actually make sure the organization is staying afloat, is sustainable, is doing what it says it’s supposed to do, staying in line with the vision and the mission. Your board is your support system. It’s important for leaders to understand the relationship and the role they have with their board members.</p> <p>The foundation that I worked with prior was the Annenberg Foundation here in Los Angeles. We did do capacity-building by teaching board leaders how to work in alignment with the executive director. The program was called Alchemy. It was a magical program to bring together the executive director and a support person, or a champion, and the board chair. They had to come together in the program, which we would do quarterly. We came for classes and learning how to work together, how to build the capacity of the organization, and even how to fundraise. With them working hand in hand, they were able to have much higher success rates.</p> <p>It’s important for leaders to understand the importance of their board and what their board roles are. Especially with small organizations, when you start an organization, my mom is on the board, my brother is on the board, and my sister down north. They’re like, “Yeah, sure, you can put my name down.” They have no idea what it means to be responsible on a board. They don’t know anything about board governance. It’s important for leaders who want to start these nonprofits to understand your board is a serious thing. It’s not just your mom and grandma and everybody who said, “Yeah, we should do that. That sounds cool.” And you’re selling pies or chicken dinners or whatever it is to raise money. That’s great, but if you have a board who understands their fiduciary responsibility, they will say, “We can sell these chicken dinners, but we also have to expand and talk to somebody like Sherita about how we find grant funding and how we are in alignment with that and how we stay with our vision and our mission. If you’re working with saving the chickens, selling chicken dinners might not be a good idea.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Thyonne:</strong> It’s important for us to know what we’re doing and that our boards know their roles.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want to get Sherita on here for a minute. Sherita has some family issues, and she needs to go tend to some of those important things. She set you up for this thing that you are going to talk about. Everybody thinks there is grants, and it will be a smooth road going after them. You send in an application, and people will give you all this money. We have to learn some things as leaders, don’t we?</p> <p><strong>Sherita:</strong> Yes. For one, grant funders are investors just like any other investor. People think that there is a magic potion or something when it comes to grants for the nonprofit arena. That’s why another time when Hugh and I worked together, and I wrote that article, “Nonprofit - The Stepchild of Business,” people treat a nonprofit like a side gig or a hobby. They don’t put much into it. They might submit one grant or two grants and don’t receive it and say, “See, everyone told me not to do this.” But they have been trying to get money for their for-profit business for 20 years and kept trying until they succeeded. They will not put much into the nonprofit arena but expect a greater return. That’s what tends to happen. When you’re going after grants, it’s a joint process with the executive or whoever they choose to work with the person that is writing the grants because even myself, I raised over $30 million. We developed over 600 organizations. But there is no way to just take it upon myself and write about my clients’ accomplishments without their assistance. I am very good at what I do, but I am only as good as the information received. People expect you to write a grant for a building, for the grant-writer to write about it without their input. The grant-writer doesn’t know their accomplishments, who they have worked with in the past as far as collaborations, their projects. It has to be a joint effort in order to make it happen.</p> <p>Yes, like you said, I lost a very dear uncle this morning. I tried to clear my calendar to be on here with you, but I got the call this morning that my uncle passed away. I am working on a couple of things.</p> <p>Before I leave, it’s also important for people. Just today or yesterday it was reported, a director of an ER committed suicide. She was in New York at a major hospital. Had contracted coronavirus herself while treating patients. Got well, went back to work, and yesterday, committed suicide.</p> <p>Organizations after every catastrophe, whether it is Katrina or the 1930s Depression, after every catastrophe, it doesn’t stop there. There is going to be an aftermath. There is cause and effect. Organizations are going to need to get prepared for depression, suicide prevention, PTSD, while also like professionals like ourselves, helping people to regain themselves after this. With every issue or problem, there is grant funding. That is why grants are there: to address problems and issues. This is why the nonprofit arena, and you hear about grants more during times like this. It’s not that it operates less. The nonprofit arena steps up more. It’s important to understand that, understand how you can stabilize your footing, and understand the process of how to go after funding in order to ride this wave. Yes, it is a negativity that is happening right now. Yes, we are losing lives. Yes, a lot of businesses are closed right now. If we understand how to ride the wave of what is happening right now in addition to knowing how to survive and move forward in it, that is what I will be talking about. I thank you for having me on, including me with these other experts.</p> <p>Wil, hi, how are you? It’s been years. Tell Pastor I said hello, and I do want to speak with you guys following on this. David Gruder, Greg, Thyonne, and Bob, I look forward to being with you on Friday. Have a very blessed day.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That was so profound. It’s time for some summary statements. I’d like to start with Bob Hopkins. Every time I talk to Bob, I am amazed at the depth of knowledge he has about a lot of different topics. He is living the sweet life. He could be tending his garden, but he is out there inspiring students and teaching. He has joined the SynerVision team and wants to help us take the magazine up another level and do some work with us. Blessings to you and sharing your gifts, and thank you for being a part of this presenting team. We are going to wrap up here and let everybody have a moment to say something. What would you like to add to the conversation?</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> I’m anxious to read the content again of everybody and what we are going to do and where I fit in. I am going to be there for the entire time. A lot of it might be off the top of my head after I have learned what I have heard from you. I don’t want to go on a tangent that doesn’t have some relationship to what we are already talking about. I think as a time when we all speak for 20 minutes at a time, then I’m later on in the afternoon. I’m the last speaker. At least that was the schedule I saw.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I messed with it because we had some changes I had to make. I am going to send that out to you right after this session. You do have several times that you are going to be able to influence people and share some of your stuff. I have had to rework it. Our Bishop Kirkland in New York couldn’t be here today. She is sitting in New York talking to people about working together, collaborating. She is going to share with us Friday about that. We will get a report on how that is going in New York City.</p> <p>Bob, you could speak off the top of your head all day and not duplicate yourself. You have such a wealth of information. We are going to talk about philanthropy. His book is brilliant. He lifted it up before. Your book is 100-something stories of nonprofits and how philanthropy really works. We think we know what philanthropy is, but it really is different. How do boards connect with that? You have experience running nonprofits as well as being a resource to them. We have had to make the schedule a little fluid, but it’s not a whole lot different. I have moved you up in the day a little bit. Whenever you talk, people are going to listen. It’s like one of those big investment companies. When they talk, we all listen. Knowing that, you’re going to have great gifts to share. Don’t put yourself down. You have a lot of important stuff to share. Thank you for being part of this great presentation team.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Greg Sanders. Why is the work of a nonprofit so important? Why are you sponsoring SynerVision?</p> <p><strong>Greg:</strong> My mother and my father were both university teachers. My mom was in foreign languages, Spanish. My father was in music. I taught sociology for 30 years. I have a big heart for students who can’t figure out what the heck they are going to do with their lives when they are 18-22, which is an important thing I felt like I did when I was working at the university. Not just transmitting content, but helping people figure out their futures.</p> <p>I think about Dr. Gruder who is known for integrity. My feeling is that everything we do should be of service to other people. I love the nonprofit organization because they wear right on their sleeve that we are here to serve. Businesses should have that same mindset. If what you do is not improving the quality of life for other people, you should go do something else. That is what EZ-Card attempts to do. I tell people if you are going to build a house, you could do it with your bare hands, but it’s a lot better to do it with tools, even with power tools, because if you spend $1 on a power tool, it’s going to help you save hundreds of dollars in building that house. That is what we are trying to do at EZ-Card. If the technology fits and helps people to do what they have chosen to do to help other people in a more efficient manner, that is what we’re all about. I think we are right. We need to rethink the way we are doing everything, and we need to think about it in terms of helping other people.</p> <p>We are trying to make money during this period of time, but we are also caring for people. Just recently, I had one middle-aged adult talking about taking care of her 88-year-old mother right now and saying, “My mom was healthy. She went out with her friends. She went to restaurants. She had an active life. Now she is cooped up in her house and is wasting away. She is no longer actively engaging.” My advice is to maintain your normal life as best you can, even having to shelter in place. How can you maintain the routines? How can you maintain life as normal? It’s that kind of strategic thinking that nonprofit organizations have to be maintained in. You can’t do some things the way you did them before, but you can make a semblance of those activities and try to keep those healthy routines in place. I am privileged to be a part of it. We are trying to drive some traffic to what is happening on Friday from the EZ-Card side.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Text 64600 with LDR in the message. You will have the SynerVision card. Dr. Gordon, how would you like to close?</p> <p><strong>Thyonne:</strong> Hugh, I hope you can keep David, Greg, Bob, and Wil because I plan on putting on my mask and kidnapping Bob from Texas. Bob, don’t pay attention. I am going to be grabbing you and bringing you to California.</p> <p><strong>Bob:</strong> My bags are packed.</p> <p><strong>Thyonne:</strong> I have already texted Greg’s site. I am excited about that. David, I know how I feel about you. Wil, I just met you. This is going to be an amazing symposium. I am excited to be part of it. Anyone who misses it, you are about to miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime. That is what we have to understand as nonprofit leaders and people in this space. I will speak as an African-American woman. This isn’t our first time in a crisis. We know how to get through a crisis. Nonprofits, we are used to not having a whole lot and making a lot happen. In this crisis, we are the leaders. We actually know what to do already. Our leadership style is what everybody else is trying to do. We have been doing this makeshift thing for a long time. We have such an opportunity to take this thing by the horns and make an opportunity of it.</p> <p>That is what I will talk about with the board leadership as well. When board leaders step up right now, there are all sorts of opportunities for us to come out of this thriving and leading during this crisis as well as through this crisis to help us get through it. There is so much opportunity. With the people who will be at this symposium, wow, you will get the ideas, the information. You will have the knowledge that you need to break through and make a change in your organization. I am excited. Hugh, let’s make it happen. Bob, don’t look for me, but I am coming to get you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s awesome. You may have noticed some old white guy. Sometimes we’re clueless. Some of us know how to dress, but not me. Wil, did you say Pastor is on here? Blessings. Do you have a picture, or will you just talk to us?</p> <p><strong>Dr. Kevin Williams:</strong> I am just going to talk to you. I don’t have a picture today.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you for being here. All of us have crazy schedules. We have some awesome folks. You are going to talk about how Paul said be transformed by the renewal of your mind. Talk about the transformation that you are going to talk about. You will be square up at noon EST at the symposium. It’s the spot before we take a lunch break. Tell us why we need that and why you want to share that with people.</p> <p><strong>Kevin:</strong> Right now, I think one of the greatest challenges that that could hinder any individual is to be stuck to an old way of thinking. Everything that has transpired recently has caused two waves of thought. One wave is people believing that things will go back to the way that they were, which is a very dangerous mindset. The other thought is understanding that they won’t go back to the way that they were, but also understand what is getting ready to come. Any time there is going to be advancement, either you are going to be a reactionary person or you will be an initiating individual. Thought leaders nowadays have to initiate so that we can provoke other people to initiate and not be reactionary. Usually, if you are reactionary, you are going to suffer the consequences of reacting.</p> <p>But when your mind is renewed, when Paul talks about that, he is talking about a renovation of taking out some old things, almost like renovating a house, taking out some old things and literally changing the scope of the house and the aspect of it so that it can meet your current needs. The same thing happens in the mind. If a person doesn’t transform their thinking and get out of the old stuck way of thinking, they are going to ultimately implode and damage themselves. But when an individual comes into a mind renewal, this is why symposiums like this are key and important, because what you have then is you have thought leaders who are ultimately like construction workers. What we’re doing is aiding the individual to renovate their thinking because in this renovation, people are not just going to learn about what’s new, but also learn the type of thinking they should have that has hurt them before but also is going to help them now because now we’re open to a new way of thinking. If you look at what’s happening with the United States, with the government, with the marketplace, everything is shifting. Look at stocks. Look at the different kinds of currency now, like cryptocurrency. All of these different things that are happening, our mind has to be renewed.</p> <p>The next thing is we have to make sure that we don’t fall into the hands of something that we don’t ascribe to because with all of this that is happening, by being a faith leader, I understand that God has an agenda. Even though God has a focus and a vision for all of us, so does the enemy. We have to make sure we are not operating in something that looks like it has a form of goodness, but denies the power thereof. As thought leaders, one of the things I believe that is important is that our thinking definitely has to change in order for us to be effective for this coming time and for this generation right now that is depending on us to see something for them that they cannot see for themselves.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Awesome. Dr. Williams, it’s been a few years, but you invited me down to work with your congregation. We did some leadership stuff. Wil and I did some music stuff. Also, the very first symposium happened in Greensboro at your church. Did you know that?</p> <p><strong>Kevin:</strong> Wow. I knew that we did the symposium, but I didn’t know it was the first one.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That was a shorter one. It was an evening. You put out the word, and everybody came. I remember Bishop Willimon asked somebody why they came, and they said, “Pastor said to come.” He was quite impressed with that. This is #27. It’s changed a little bit. Of course, we can’t do it live right now, so we are doing it virtually. It’s a celebration of something we started in Greensboro at New Jerusalem Cathedral. Thank you for helping me launch this so many years ago.</p> <p><strong>Kevin:</strong> Most definitely. I always want to be a part of things that you’re doing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Blessings. You’ve been a blessing to me. Thank you for being here. You’re sharing it with your tribe. Bishop Kirkland is out here in New York City getting people to collaborate. She is doing some important work today. She will be with us on Friday. May 1. Be there. Thank you for getting in here. As we close out here, my brother David Gruder, you get the last spot. You know Dr. Williams, don’t you?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> Yes. We have not talked or seen each other for a number of years, but I am delighted to reconnect.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This has been a great conversation. What do you want to leave us with?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> What I want to leave you all with is a quote from a 20th century thought leader that many of you are familiar with by name at least, Buckminster Fuller. What Bucky Fuller said was, “The best way to predict the future is to invent it.” This Friday, we are going to be talking about how nonprofits get to invent their future in effective, useful ways. I am really looking forward to offering some key psychological foundations for inventing a new future.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And you have a book. Do you want to offer a virtual version of it? Tell us about that.</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> Very briefly, yeah. I have been involved in one capacity or another with 24 books now. One of them is a book I was the psychology editor for called <em>Transcendent Thought and Market Leadership.</em> That is by Bruce Raymond Wright. I have been blessed by Bruce to be able to offer a digital copy of the book as a gift to everyone who attends the symposium on Friday.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We will have some other gifts, but that is a significant one. David, thank you for being here. Kevin, thank you for being here. Greg, thank you for being here. Bob, thank you for being here. Thyonne is going to capture you and take you to California. He can do a book signing there. He will do that in California. I look forward to putting a spin on nonprofit leadership in a good way and inspiring people to go out there and make a huge difference. Thank you so much for sharing today with everybody.</p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
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      <title>Seven Things Every Donor Wished We Knew Interview with Wayne Olson</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/seven-things-every-donor-wished-we-knew-interview-with-wayne-olson</link>
      <description>Seven Things Every Donor Wished We Knew Interview with Wayne Olson
 Wayne Olson is the Gift Planning Officer for Intermountain Healthcare in Salt Lake City Utah. Prior to that, Wayne was President of Wayne Olson Consulting LLC where he advised corporations and charities on fundraising, sales, customer service and building stronger relationships with customers and constituents. He is a leading expert on planned giving and donor relations. He is an attorney with more than 20 years’ experience in the nonprofit sector and has worked with donors on tens of millions of dollars in donations and helped countless nonprofits build effective and dynamic planned giving programs. He is a sought-after trainer, consultant and speaker on motivation, customer service and leadership. In 2014 Fundraising Success Magazine honored him by awarding Wayne “The Most Inspirational Speaker of the Year.” He is the author of four books including, The Disney Difference, How to Give a Great Speech or Presentation, Big Gifts, Small Effort, and Think Like a Donor. Later this year he will publish his latest book on nonprofit board leadership.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/747f9674-b329-11eb-9f0f-cb9ab47fc08e/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Seven Things Every Donor Wished We Knew Interview with Wayne Olson Wayne Olson is the Gift Planning Officer for Intermountain Healthcare in Salt Lake City Utah. Prior to that, Wayne was President of Wayne Olson Consulting LLC where he advised...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Seven Things Every Donor Wished We Knew Interview with Wayne Olson
 Wayne Olson is the Gift Planning Officer for Intermountain Healthcare in Salt Lake City Utah. Prior to that, Wayne was President of Wayne Olson Consulting LLC where he advised corporations and charities on fundraising, sales, customer service and building stronger relationships with customers and constituents. He is a leading expert on planned giving and donor relations. He is an attorney with more than 20 years’ experience in the nonprofit sector and has worked with donors on tens of millions of dollars in donations and helped countless nonprofits build effective and dynamic planned giving programs. He is a sought-after trainer, consultant and speaker on motivation, customer service and leadership. In 2014 Fundraising Success Magazine honored him by awarding Wayne “The Most Inspirational Speaker of the Year.” He is the author of four books including, The Disney Difference, How to Give a Great Speech or Presentation, Big Gifts, Small Effort, and Think Like a Donor. Later this year he will publish his latest book on nonprofit board leadership.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Seven Things Every Donor Wished We Knew Interview with Wayne Olson</strong></h1> <p><strong><a href="http://wayneolson.com/"></a>Wayne Olson</strong> is the Gift Planning Officer for Intermountain Healthcare in Salt Lake City Utah. Prior to that, Wayne was President of Wayne Olson Consulting LLC where he advised corporations and charities on fundraising, sales, customer service and building stronger relationships with customers and constituents. He is a leading expert on planned giving and donor relations. He is an attorney with more than 20 years’ experience in the nonprofit sector and has worked with donors on tens of millions of dollars in donations and helped countless nonprofits build effective and dynamic planned giving programs. He is a sought-after trainer, consultant and speaker on motivation, customer service and leadership. In 2014 Fundraising Success Magazine honored him by awarding Wayne “The Most Inspirational Speaker of the Year.” He is the author of four books including, The Disney Difference, How to Give a Great Speech or Presentation, Big Gifts, Small Effort, and Think Like a Donor. Later this year he will publish his latest book on nonprofit board leadership.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2350</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Leadership in Faith Communities with Kathleen Panning</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/leadership-in-faith-communities-with-kathleen-panning</link>
      <description>Leadership in Faith Communities Interview with Kathleen Panning  Knowing the God-given gifts others see in you improves communication, teamwork and furthers the mission and ministry of your congregation or nonprofit. Not knowing these gifts fuels conflict, miscommunication, impedes teamwork and so can hamper the mission of your organization.
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/749d2a72-b329-11eb-9f0f-935037505e94/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leadership in Faith Communities Interview with Kathleen Panning  Knowing the God-given gifts others see in you improves communication, teamwork and furthers the mission and ministry of your congregation or nonprofit. Not knowing these gifts fuels...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leadership in Faith Communities Interview with Kathleen Panning  Knowing the God-given gifts others see in you improves communication, teamwork and furthers the mission and ministry of your congregation or nonprofit. Not knowing these gifts fuels conflict, miscommunication, impedes teamwork and so can hamper the mission of your organization.
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[Leadership in Faith Communities Interview with Kathleen Panning  <p>Knowing the God-given gifts others see in you improves communication, teamwork and furthers the mission and ministry of your congregation or nonprofit. Not knowing these gifts fuels conflict, miscommunication, impedes teamwork and so can hamper the mission of your organization.</p> <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3583</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9693994077.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>How to Use Technology to Stay Audit Ready and Streamline Accounting</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-to-use-technology-to-stay-audit-ready-and-streamline-accounting</link>
      <description>How to Use Technology to Stay Audit Ready and Streamline Accounting Interview with CFO Expert Tosha Anderson
 Tosha Anderson is the founder of The Charity CFO, an organization offering accounting and thought leadership skills to nonprofit agencies. Tosha created The Charity CFO after realizing the need for specialized skills in non-profits with limited financial resources and increasing pressure to keep costs low despite mounting compliance and financial reporting needs. With nonprofit experience as an auditor, a CFO, a board member, a volunteer and a consultant, Tosha works with non-profits with on-going accounting needs.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/74b535b8-b329-11eb-9f0f-3fead13f4255/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with CFO Expert Tosha Anderson</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How to Use Technology to Stay Audit Ready and Streamline Accounting Interview with CFO Expert Tosha Anderson
 Tosha Anderson is the founder of The Charity CFO, an organization offering accounting and thought leadership skills to nonprofit agencies. Tosha created The Charity CFO after realizing the need for specialized skills in non-profits with limited financial resources and increasing pressure to keep costs low despite mounting compliance and financial reporting needs. With nonprofit experience as an auditor, a CFO, a board member, a volunteer and a consultant, Tosha works with non-profits with on-going accounting needs.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>How to Use Technology to Stay Audit Ready and Streamline Accounting<br> Interview with CFO Expert Tosha Anderson</strong></h1> <p><strong>Tosha Anderson</strong> is the founder of The Charity CFO, an organization offering accounting and thought leadership skills to nonprofit agencies. Tosha created The Charity CFO after realizing the need for specialized skills in non-profits with limited financial resources and increasing pressure to keep costs low despite mounting compliance and financial reporting needs. With nonprofit experience as an auditor, a CFO, a board member, a volunteer and a consultant, Tosha works with non-profits with on-going accounting needs.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3168</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1457348296.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Supercharge Your Funding Program with Smartphones</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/supercharge-your-funding-program-with-smartphones</link>
      <description>Supercharge Your Funding Program with Smartphones Interview with Dr. Greg Sanders and Adam Bricker form EZCard
 Note: EZCard.com is a sponsor of SynerVision Leadership Foundation
 SynerVision is using a new web based tool called EZCard and it's the best thing we've ever seen for connecting early with our tribe! We asked Adam and Greg to come on the show to show you a new way of promoting your nonprofit to supporters.
 Use this tool to raise funds, promote events, provide information to supporters about the work of the organization, and more.
 EZcard's mission is to elevate and empower all people and communities with affordable, digital technology, including tools for automation.  This enhances the bottom line of any business, school, or non-profit organization, and strengthens communities.  That's what we're all about!
 Here are the presenters:
 Dr. Greg Sandersis the Founder &amp; CEO of EZcard, a simple but powerful, cutting-edge technology for smart phones.  Dr. Sanders taught sociology at the university level for 30 years and is, from one perspective, a very unlikely CEO of a software company.  He is not a programmer, and while he speaks 8 languages and plays 27 instruments, he doesn’t speak “geek.”  However, six years ago he had a clear vision of how to put the power of the smart phone into the hands of ordinary people, and EZcard was born.
 Adam Brickeris a forward-thinking and innovative Fitness Philosopher. His ability to see what others miss allows for the creation of plans and strategies specifically designed to overcome obstacles that have previously prevented his clients from successfully attaining their goals.
 When a person fails to achieve successful results multiple times in multiple programs, its almost always an alignment issue between their beliefs and their desired outcomes. The biggest barricade to their success can be removed, usually very easily, once it is identified. The process to identify these hidden self-image beliefs is what Adam has brought to the fitness industry and what makes Bricker worth talking to.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2020 18:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/74cfc00e-b329-11eb-9f0f-ef9061ae9326/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dr. Greg Sanders and Adam Bricker form EZCard</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Supercharge Your Funding Program with Smartphones Interview with Dr. Greg Sanders and Adam Bricker form EZCard
 Note: EZCard.com is a sponsor of SynerVision Leadership Foundation
 SynerVision is using a new web based tool called EZCard and it's the best thing we've ever seen for connecting early with our tribe! We asked Adam and Greg to come on the show to show you a new way of promoting your nonprofit to supporters.
 Use this tool to raise funds, promote events, provide information to supporters about the work of the organization, and more.
 EZcard's mission is to elevate and empower all people and communities with affordable, digital technology, including tools for automation.  This enhances the bottom line of any business, school, or non-profit organization, and strengthens communities.  That's what we're all about!
 Here are the presenters:
 Dr. Greg Sandersis the Founder &amp; CEO of EZcard, a simple but powerful, cutting-edge technology for smart phones.  Dr. Sanders taught sociology at the university level for 30 years and is, from one perspective, a very unlikely CEO of a software company.  He is not a programmer, and while he speaks 8 languages and plays 27 instruments, he doesn’t speak “geek.”  However, six years ago he had a clear vision of how to put the power of the smart phone into the hands of ordinary people, and EZcard was born.
 Adam Brickeris a forward-thinking and innovative Fitness Philosopher. His ability to see what others miss allows for the creation of plans and strategies specifically designed to overcome obstacles that have previously prevented his clients from successfully attaining their goals.
 When a person fails to achieve successful results multiple times in multiple programs, its almost always an alignment issue between their beliefs and their desired outcomes. The biggest barricade to their success can be removed, usually very easily, once it is identified. The process to identify these hidden self-image beliefs is what Adam has brought to the fitness industry and what makes Bricker worth talking to.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Supercharge Your Funding Program with Smartphones<br> Interview with Dr. Greg Sanders and Adam Bricker form EZCard</strong></h1> <p>Note: EZCard.com is a sponsor of SynerVision Leadership Foundation</p> <p>SynerVision is using a new web based tool called EZCard and it's the best thing we've ever seen for connecting early with our tribe! We asked Adam and Greg to come on the show to show you a new way of promoting your nonprofit to supporters.</p> <p>Use this tool to raise funds, promote events, provide information to supporters about the work of the organization, and more.</p> <p>EZcard's mission is to elevate and empower all people and communities with affordable, digital technology, including tools for automation.  This enhances the bottom line of any business, school, or non-profit organization, and strengthens communities.  That's what we're all about!</p> <p>Here are the presenters:</p> <p><strong>Dr. Greg Sanders</strong>is the Founder &amp; CEO of EZcard, a simple but powerful, cutting-edge technology for smart phones.  Dr. Sanders taught sociology at the university level for 30 years and is, from one perspective, a very unlikely CEO of a software company.  He is not a programmer, and while he speaks 8 languages and plays 27 instruments, he doesn’t speak “geek.”  However, six years ago he had a clear vision of how to put the power of the smart phone into the hands of ordinary people, and EZcard was born.</p> <p><strong>Adam Bricker</strong>is a forward-thinking and innovative Fitness Philosopher. His ability to see what others miss allows for the creation of plans and strategies specifically designed to overcome obstacles that have previously prevented his clients from successfully attaining their goals.</p> <p>When a person fails to achieve successful results multiple times in multiple programs, its almost always an alignment issue between their beliefs and their desired outcomes. The biggest barricade to their success can be removed, usually very easily, once it is identified. The process to identify these hidden self-image beliefs is what Adam has brought to the fitness industry and what makes Bricker worth talking to.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3311</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>The Future of Digital Fundraising and How to Get Ahead of the Curve</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-future-of-digital-fundraising-and-how-to-get-ahead-of-the-curve</link>
      <description>The Future of Digital Fundraising and How to Get Ahead of the Curve
 Interview with Sarah Olivieri
 Sarah Olivieri is a nonprofit strategist with a passion for helping organizations thrive in the digital age. The founder of PivotGround, Sarah helps human-service nonprofits increase capacity, deliver better programming, attract more funding, and make the world a better place. She is the creator of the Impact Method™ - a
 business framework for nonprofits designed to help nonprofits thrive in the digital age. She has over 15 years of nonprofit leadership. Sarah co-founded the Open Center for Autism and was the executive director of the Helping Children of War Foundation. She is also a published author whom co-wrote Lesson Planning a la Carte: Integrated Planning for Students with Special Needs. 
 For more about Sarah's work, go to https://pivotground.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2020 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/74ede20a-b329-11eb-9f0f-3b48bde57d35/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Sarah Olivieri</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Future of Digital Fundraising and How to Get Ahead of the Curve
 Interview with Sarah Olivieri
 Sarah Olivieri is a nonprofit strategist with a passion for helping organizations thrive in the digital age. The founder of PivotGround, Sarah helps human-service nonprofits increase capacity, deliver better programming, attract more funding, and make the world a better place. She is the creator of the Impact Method™ - a
 business framework for nonprofits designed to help nonprofits thrive in the digital age. She has over 15 years of nonprofit leadership. Sarah co-founded the Open Center for Autism and was the executive director of the Helping Children of War Foundation. She is also a published author whom co-wrote Lesson Planning a la Carte: Integrated Planning for Students with Special Needs. 
 For more about Sarah's work, go to https://pivotground.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>The Future of Digital Fundraising and How to Get Ahead of the Curve</strong></h1> <h1><strong>Interview with Sarah Olivieri</strong></h1> <p><strong>Sarah Olivieri</strong> is a nonprofit strategist with a passion for helping organizations thrive in the digital age. The founder of PivotGround, Sarah helps human-service nonprofits increase capacity, deliver better programming, attract more funding, and make the world a better place. She is the creator of the Impact Method™ - a</p> <p>business framework for nonprofits designed to help nonprofits thrive in the digital age. She has over 15 years of nonprofit leadership. Sarah co-founded the Open Center for Autism and was the executive director of the Helping Children of War Foundation. She is also a published author whom co-wrote Lesson Planning a la Carte: Integrated Planning for Students with Special Needs. </p> <p>For more about Sarah's work, go to <a href="https://pivotground.com/">https://pivotground.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>2838</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Building Buzz to Attract More Energy and Funding to Your Nonprofit Organization</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/building-buzz-to-attract-more-energy-and-funding-to-your-nonprofit-organization</link>
      <description>Building Buzz to Attract More Energy and Funding to Your Nonprofit Organization
  Interview with Michael Hemphill Michael Hemphill is creator and producer of BUZZ. He is a former award-winning newspaper reporter who has spent the last 15 years devoting his time and heart to becoming an entrepreneurial nonprofit leader in his communities. To accompany BUZZ the television show, Michael has started a podcast, BUZZ: Inside the Hive, buzz4good.com/hive, that interviews marketing pros who offer tips and tools to help nonprofits. The podcast is also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/750b386e-b329-11eb-9f0f-0ba78925eaa1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Michael Hemphill</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Building Buzz to Attract More Energy and Funding to Your Nonprofit Organization
  Interview with Michael Hemphill Michael Hemphill is creator and producer of BUZZ. He is a former award-winning newspaper reporter who has spent the last 15 years devoting his time and heart to becoming an entrepreneurial nonprofit leader in his communities. To accompany BUZZ the television show, Michael has started a podcast, BUZZ: Inside the Hive, buzz4good.com/hive, that interviews marketing pros who offer tips and tools to help nonprofits. The podcast is also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Building Buzz to Attract More Energy and Funding to Your Nonprofit Organization</strong></h1>  <strong>Interview with Michael Hemphill</strong> <p><strong>Michael Hemphill</strong> is creator and producer of BUZZ. He is a former award-winning newspaper reporter who has spent the last 15 years devoting his time and heart to becoming an entrepreneurial nonprofit leader in his communities. To accompany BUZZ the television show, Michael has started a podcast, BUZZ: Inside the Hive, buzz4good.com/hive, that interviews marketing pros who offer tips and tools to help nonprofits. The podcast is also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2875</itunes:duration>
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      <title>How Speakers And Experts Can Write And Publish A Book For Social Impact</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-speakers-and-experts-can-write-and-publish-a-book-for-social-impact</link>
      <description>How Speakers And Experts Can Write And Publish A Book For Social Impact Interview with Jeremy Jones
 Jeremy C. Jones, a proud military veteran, is also a family man and entrepreneur who lives in Paradise Valley, Arizona. His accomplishments include being a four-time #1 Best-Selling Author on Amazon, hosting the popular podcast “Ideas &amp; Impact,” and founding and serving as CEO at Jones Media Publishing.
  
  
 Read the Interview
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. Welcome to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. This little interview will be packed with some ideas we hope will be useful to you. Today, we have Jeremy Jones, who comes to us from north Scottsdale, Arizona. Jeremy, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell folks a little bit about you, why you’re doing this, and your passion.
 Jeremy Jones: Absolutely. Thank you so much for the introduction. I appreciate it. A little bit about my background. I grew up in southern California and went into the military at the age of 18. I was stationed on an aircraft carrier for four years. Just to give your audience a reference of time, when I was getting ready to get out of the military was during the September 11 attack, 2001. I was a part of Operation Enduring Freedom. I was in the military during that time and shortly got out after, which was March of 2002. I moved here to Arizona, where I have been living and working of about 17 years now. Over time, I got my Bachelor of Arts degree. I started working of a company, working for myself. At the point where I had transitioned to fully working for myself, I was looking to get an edge on not only just the competition, but to set myself apart because I felt like I was really good at what I did. I authored a book and saw how it helped open up doors for me to get speaking engagements. I helped one of our clients be able to publish a book as well. That is where I developed a specialty of what we do with book publishing. Right now, I currently have that program. It’s all we do. It’s my primary business. Jones Media Publishing is the top rated book publisher for coaches, consultants, speakers, and experts to help them publish a book that can be used as a tool to get speaking engagements and new clients.
 I am so passionate about this because a book can be a tool to help an expert share their message that is impactful, share the story of the charity, nonprofit, or organization, to share the reason why they do what they do and the principles behind it, to help them reach an audience that are outside of their sphere of influence.
 Hugh: That’s really great. I published my first book in 2007. It’s called Moving Spirits, Building Lives. It’s a church musician as a transformational leader. It’s how I pivoted from being a conductor into organizational leadership. The conductor takes a bunch of singers and transforms them into a choir, transforms the choir into an ensemble, transforms people’s lives. In church work, in the orchestra, it’s the same kind of thing. I teach people how to build high-performing teams. I self-published and went to a church music conference. Nobody knew me. I had a bunch of books. There were 600 people there, and I sold 100 books. All of a sudden, people were quoting me, and I was a celebrity because I was an authority on a topic. Now, it took me 40 years to write the book, 30 days to put it on paper. So I sent myself a daily regimen and outlined it and wrote it. Miscellaneous chapters. I wrote the ones that flowed easily. The fist chapter I wrote was “Managing Time.” I wrote about it, so I have to do it. I can tell you that was a business card. The book was an open-door business card. People are really impressed that you have a book. I have had several other people quote my books in other books on the topic. That was my basic premise on transformational leadership. I have done other books and courses. It was really me putting on paper. The process was clarifying for me.
 What do you find is most helpful? We’re talking to clergy and nonprofit leaders and their teams. I do experience they have lots of stories to tell, but they don’t know how to get them out there. We think we published a book and it’s a bestseller, so we’re going to be filthy rich. That’s not exactly the purpose, is it?
 Jeremy: No, not necessarily. So we always start with the foundation. A lot of times, when someone is referred to us, they come to us for three primary reasons. One is for contribution. They have a message that is important to them; they want to get it out to as many people as possible. The second reason is to have it be a tool to get clients for their business or speaking engagements, which furthers the message about what they do. The third reason is for credibility and authority. The book serves as a purpose to position you as an authority, a specialized expert at what you do.
 Whenever someone comes to us and says, “I have a book, but I feel like I’m stuck,” which is common, we start with the main purpose of the book. What is the purpose of the book for you? The whole structure and the outline of the book can be determined to serve that purpose if we know the reason why the author is writing the book, and who they are writing it for. You’d be surprised how many people don’t think through that process. That’s what we’re very good at. That’s what we work with each of our authors on. We develop a profile of who the book is for, what we need to cover within the book. We help them structure and outline their book properly.
 I will give you an example here based on your question. We had one author who wanted to be a public speaker. Inside of her book, she didn’t mention anything about her having the ability to speak, or that she has even spoken. And she had spoken. What I recommended to her, because she was pretty far along, is within the book, rather than telling a bunch of random stories, she told a very specific story how she went to go speak somewhere, what she said impacted the people in the audience, and what happened as a result. A real quick story. Doesn’t need to be very long. Only needs to be a couple of paragraphs. Because she told that story, it illustrated the point that she is a professional speaker. It demonstrates that she speaks, and people get a positive response by her speaking. Guess what a meeting organizer wants when they want you to speak? A good response from the audience, and for the audience to do something with what they learned. They want their speaker to perform to their audience and bring value to their audience.
 There are certain things we can do with the outline based on the purpose. You asked your question about stories. Depending on the purpose, depending on the structure and outline also depends how much of those stories or what stories even to make sense to include.
 Hugh: Before people melt down and say that’s too much work, let me unpack a couple things. I found it very empowering laying it out in writing. I had cleared a month to write my first book. Those other books were written piecemeal through blog posts or other things I had put together. You have to be careful if you do it randomly so it has continuity. Having a good editor.
 The thing that occurs to me is a lot of churches and nonprofits don’t consider branding. What you’re talking about is your branding. Who are you? Who is your audience? How do you show up with that audience? What is your brand image?
 I had a brander publish a book called Twist. Her publicist contacted me and wanted an interview on my business podcast. During the interview, I had her book out. We were talking about putting a twist on your brand. I asked her, “How did you find me?” She said, “Your brand really stood out: the conductor that teaches leadership. That sets you out above everybody else.” If you’re having trouble in your charity raising money, getting volunteers, maybe your brand isn’t clear. If people aren’t coming to your church or synagogue, there may not be a clear brand image on what they can expect or who you’re marketing to. What are they going to experience when they get there? Why should they come? Any of those things, do you help people sort that out? Or do they need to come in with a brand ready? Do you help them decide who they are and how they want to show up in the world?
 Jeremy: That’s what we help each of our authors and clients with. It starts with the structure and outline of the book first. Determining what is included in all of the chapters. We do a lot of research on book titles. The title is an important component of the book because that is the first thing that potential readers or audience members at an event see. When they see you’re the author of X book, that’s a determining factor to represent who you are. If you have a book about purpose, like Purpose-Driven Life, you know that’s what the author is representing and talking about in their book. If you have a book called Family History Secrets, they are all about the secrets of their family. The title of the book does represent the message and what the author is all about. All of those things need to be considered with the end in mind. That’s why I reference quite a bit with our members, because we coach our members through the entire process, from a blank Word document to published book, is we always do what Stephen Covey said in his famous book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, is begin with the end in mind. We always look at the end in mind for the purpose and the title.
 Hugh: It sounds awfully hard. I did everything myself. I went and found a printer. Actually, I had pitched my first book. Instead of making a dollar, it cost me a dollar, and I made $13 selling the book. They said clergy wouldn’t buy it, but most people had clergy. I put music notes on my cover. My name was big on the cover. I don’t know if I would redo it. If I feel like I want to do that, I would redo another type of book.
 All of that stuff. I am looking back and thinking, I wish I’d had somebody like Jeremy Jones guide me through the process. It was difficult. I had somebody proof it who didn’t do a good job. My first printing was full of typos. That is a credibility issue.
 Jeremy: It is. What we do is we have the entire process outlined in three phases. That’s how we are basically a guide, guiding people through the process so it doesn’t ever feel overwhelming. We have divided our unique publishing process into three primary phases. Phase one is what we call the create or foundation phase. That’s everything related to who the book is for, the purpose of the book for you, getting the book structured and outlined properly in a simple and systematic way, getting the book written in a time-effective manner because we know most of our authors or members are not writing the book three hours a day. They have a certain window of time they can allot outside of their business or profession. We are sensitive to that. We realize it does take an amount of time, but we want it to be as efficient as possible for each of our members. We have some programs in order to do that to help keep the writing efficient, providing editing along the way to provide feedback and insight for the author. That’s all phase one.
 Then it goes to our team of editors to edit it properly so that the author doesn’t have to deal with any of what you just mentioned. Where we have had people come to us and say, “I tried to do this myself. It’s full of typos. I need to get it done right.” Our model is that traditional publishing house level of quality, but each of our authors retains full rights to their book. Everything I just mentioned is in phase one.
 Phase two is everything related to what we call packaging it. Packaging it as a product. Professional book cover design. The layout for the paperback book. Amazon and Kindle ebook formatting. Those are the primary three book formats.
 The third phase is the book release. When we first start our authors and they are thinking about their release, what we do is help guide them. Let’s do phase one first. Then we move to phase two, then phase three. That’s what we do is help facilitate each of those steps along the way so there is never any guesswork.
 Hugh: That’s important. My clients in launching and growing an organization, people don’t know what to do next. They do things randomly, which is not productive. It sounds like what could be a complicated process, you have streamlined what to do next. Is there a lot of I think what holds up a lot of people is they say I have to carve out time to do all this writing. I’ll do that next year. It’s the I’m going to wait until the perfect time. I will do it when… the famous excuse. Why should people wait? Can they get started? Is there a different way to put words on paper? Can they dictate them and have someone transcribe them? Are there options?
 Jeremy: There definitely are options. When we are in the writing phase, if the author wants to dictate what they have written, we have a unique process around doing that. It all starts with making sure everything is organized properly. If we have a book structure in place, if we have the outline in place, when the author is dictating something, it’s not random. What creates a high expense for editing, the editing process completely multiplies itself and becomes expensive, when the editor has to go in and restructure and rewrite the developmental edit of everything. What we recommend is to do it in bite-sized chunks. Chapter one is typically broken into about three or five subparts. If the author is going to speak their book and transcribe it, they only focus on chapter one, point one. Then chapter one, point two. Then chapter one, point three. They are only talking about this one thing for a short period of time. That can be transcribed and cleaned up because it’s focused, and it doesn’t need this entire reworking. That piece dramatically deceases the time.
 Another thing is the reason that most people take a lot of time to write their book is because they don’t have everything structured from the beginning. What a lot of our authors do is prior to them working with us, is they get an idea and are excited about turning it into a book. They get committed to it. They are on fire about it. They see the impact. They grab their laptop and start pounding away at the keyboard, writing that story and this story. It’s a bunch of stuff they are typing out. Then they get to the point where they go, “Wait a minute. Should I include this in chapter one or four? Maybe this should be later in the book and this should be earlier.” They find themselves for five hours taking this and moving it here, taking this and moving that there, and rewording it. That process is frustrating and time-consuming.
 Our unique process we have developed is to help the author develop a proper structure for a book based on industry publishing standards to get it all structured first and then fill in the gaps. The way I like to illustrate this is when you think about a sculptor that is sculpting a big heavy sculpture. If it’s big and heavy, they don’t take a giant glob of clay, plop it there, and start doing fine detail. That’s what people do with writing a book. They don’t write it immediately in fine detail. What a sculptor does is they develop a wire frame of the body of the sculpture, and then they build the mesh. The mesh represents the body of it. Then they put on the clay, which forms the fine detail. If you do the same process when writing a book, first you look at the structure, which makes up all the chapters. Then you look at the chapters, which makes up each of those components for a properly published book. But you get to the writing once that is developed. You are cutting your writing time by a fifth; you will have a fifth of the time it takes to write in my experience.
 Hugh: There is always this fear of the unknown. I’ve had people tell me that they have done a series of blog posts and written the book and build excitement as they launch the book. People have read the blog and still buy the book because it’s all in one place instead of strung out into a series of articles. That sounds like a good way to lay it out and think through it and get some real-time response. Do you have a reading on that?
 Jeremy: Sure, we’ve had authors who have done that. We’ve had authors who have done that with writing. If your style is you’re more comfortable with writing, that’s a great way to do that. Get to the exercise of writing and putting out blog posts and getting feedback. That’s a great way to start. We have had another author as well who does it through audio forums, the course of a podcast. We’ll have a chapter he wants to talk about, stories he wants to share, through the course of the podcast verbally. He is talking through the content that he wants to include in the book. That is a great exercise as well to speak out the story. Then you relisten to yourself telling the story, and you can very easily type it out, have it transcribed and cleaned up. Sure. Doing that process is a great exercise because you can get some feedback from people. See the response, the engagement, who leaves a comment. That’s a helpful way to do that.
 Hugh: One thing I notice is you talk about the title. The title makes me stop when I go in the bookstore. All these books. What first catches my attention is the title. Not only the words in the title, but how it’s laid out. Then I pick up the book, and I look for an index and the contents. If it’s just a bunch of boring copy, that’s a downer for me. I respect books that are laid out with some highlights, some images. I had mine with some little breakout highlighted paragraphs with tips throughout. I look for specific things that say to me it will be an interesting journey when I read this book. The titling is wordsmithing, but the rest of it, the cover appearance, the appearance of the title, and the book, what are the factors that encourage people- I’m talking about a physical book now. What are some of the things that make the book attractive so a person would want to pick it up and buy it?
 Jeremy: That’s a great question. The first thing is the book title. The primary title, and the subtitle. I always encourage authors to create a compelling subtitle. The primary title should basically encompass the main thing the book is about. The subtitle should give the readers some additional information to help clarify what the book is all about. That’s the first thing. The image of the book should be simple. Some of the best-selling books are simply all typography. Typography means it’s all text. The title of the book should be clear and easy to read. In most cases, no script. Real scripted fonts are a bad idea because of readability. You want it at first glance to be easily read. Then the cover has pleasing design.
 The very next thing, you imagine if you are in a bookstore, is you flip the book open. The book should have a well-written book description on the back of the book, which teases or creates curiosity for the potential reader to let them know what’s inside the book. That’s on the physical book. On the Amazon book listing, we recommend to most of our authors who want to include it is you want to tease to the potential reader what’s potentially in a variety of chapters in your book. Topic #1 would be chapter one. You would let them know what they would get out of each chapter in some bullet points. Giving those bullet points to that potential reader is giving them some insight as to what is in the book. The nice thing about Amazon as well is they have the ability if you are getting the book online to do a Look Inside and see the table of contents.
 What we find in most cases is the first line of defense is the book cover. Then it’s the back, which is the description on the back of the book or in the Amazon book listing description. Then once when they are inside the book, it’s the table of contents. That right there also lets you know you need to have a well-written table of contents that also informs the reader as to what is in the chapter. Those should also be well-written. They are almost like many titles of your book. They are titles of your chapters. That’s what I recommend.
 Hugh: I threw up a cover. This is my fourth book. It was one of the imprints for the United Methodist Publishing House, which has since closed. They did this attractive cover. It was an anthology, so I had famous people on the front and endorsements from the back from two authors of Chicken Soup. We made it to the second print. What was a mistake was the cover doesn’t have the subtitle. It was Stories of Transformation by Leaders. I didn’t realize until after I had released it that it didn’t have it there. That was a liability. To your point, it looked interesting. They had an artist do it, so I went with it. I do find that I look for what it’s really about.
 The other thing is picking the right categories. With Moving Spirits, Building Lives, it’s #2 in the transformational leadership category. I don’t know how it got there because that was mostly by accident. I tried intentionally to get this one to bestseller. Just wanted to say I did it. I didn’t make a lot of money, especially if you go through a regular publisher, you don’t get paid until you get that advance back. Speak more about the artistry of design and how, this subliminal message and attraction thing that goes on to entice them to grab it. Once they grab it, that’s half the battle, wouldn’t you say?
 Jeremy: I would say so, yeah. Grabbing their attention first, yes. Once you have their attention, then it’s the book description that takes them to the next piece. The title leads to the subtitle leads to the description leads to the table of contents, which leads them into the book. If they feel like the book would bring them value, that’s when they make the decision to buy the book. Nonfiction books, the value in most cases is something they would learn to improve their life. About 80% of the books we publish are nonfiction. The value to the reader for fiction books is entertainment. Getting them outside of their own reality and their mind to imagine this outside world as entertainment. That is the value you bring to them. A lot of fiction authors don’t consider that, but they have to market it that way when they are looking at writing their book description. How can you paint the picture of the value you will bring to this reader, which is capturing their mind and imagination?
 Hugh: I’m positioning a book as part of the overall marketing program for a nonprofit. Is that okay? It’s a marketing tool. There are lots of reasons, but for the purposes of where I’m going with this. It’s part of the awareness. It doesn’t differ for an entrepreneur running a business. Like leadership, the principles are the same.
 I’m a speaker, too. Speaking itself is not a sustainable revenue source. You get paid, and it’s gone. What we want to do is have back of the room material. You want to have books, courses, and other things you can offer people, which is a secondary flow of revenue. A lot of nonprofits have a lot of resources, their own and those of others who provide value in the space they are operating. Talk a minute about how a 501(c)3 can use a book to monetize, to bring in revenue.
 Jeremy: That is a great question. To answer your question, the way we have seen this work best, because of our model, we have a traditional publishing house level of quality. The author retains full rights, and they earn 100% of the royalties, minus the printing cost of the book. In that situation, where we’ve had two paths here, number one is the expert or influencer would write the book from their perspective, teaching something, sharing a message, and the nonprofit is mentioned within the book. The sale of the books would go to raise funds for a 501(c)3. You could sell a bundle of books to a company. When they buy books, the profit of books goes to the nonprofit. That is one way.
 Another way we have seen several of our authors do is the author runs a business themselves, or they are a speaker. But the nonprofit is the sponsor of the book. The nonprofit is mentioned on the back of the book. A portion of the proceeds go from the sale of the books toward the nonprofit. When the author is promoting the book, they can say, “A portion of the proceeds are going toward this nonprofit.” People like to contribute to causes or businesses that contribute to causes. There is a lot of joint venture opportunities that could come from that as well. The 501(c)3 could have donor lists. A list of all people who have donated. They could send a message to the donors saying, “We have partnered with this author. The proceeds are going back to our nonprofit. We think our audience would love this book. If you buy this book, proceeds go.” There are different types of things you could do within the marketing to split the proceeds or all of the proceeds because the author gets paid to speak or a back-end to the book where they are not so concerned about the profits of the book. This can be good. But they get paid on coaching clients, business services, things like that.
 Hugh: I have also said there are purpose books that teach people about particular things, how to get out of poverty, topics like that that explain to constituents. I live in Lynchburg, Virginia, where we have a high poverty rate. There are lots of initiatives about poverty. Getting them food, housing, and clothing does not raise them out of poverty. It’s the mindset. The mindset takes us to a very different place. My material is helping people reframe their thinking. I spend a lot of time reframing the thinking for nonprofit leaders. I have seen occasions where a sponsor buys the back page. It’s a helpful book for a certain segment or purpose. They give it away. But it has the sponsor message. They will buy 10,000 books. The company itself uses it for a marketing tool, and there is a mass distribution. Is that a scenario you see much? Does it really work?
 Jeremy: To a degree. I would say the most important thing is the sponsor, or the one representing, is in complete alignment with the audience or the reader and the values of the company. With your example, we publish quite a few books for health and wellness professionals or health coaches. I would never recommend they have a big soda company for obvious reasons because they can’t condone drinking soda.
 Hugh: Different brands.
 Jeremy: And the purpose of the product as well. Coca-Cola, Dr. Pepper, they are not bad companies. It’s just a drink. But it’s not ever recommended by that particular person. If a health and fitness trainer wrote a book and they wanted to have a dietary supplement be a sponsor, perfect alignment. The supplement provider could email or promote or Facebook ads, whatever they choose to do, to promote the book, and it also tells them in the book how to take the supplement, which the trainer recommends. There is consistency happening there. I always recommend looking at, in most cases, there is, there is some sort of consistency you could create, and there is a company out there that would see that as alignment for their brand.
 Hugh: It’s the principle I was trying to illuminate there. If their brand is compatible with your brand, and there is value for both brands.
 Jeremy: I’d say so.
 Hugh: It’s not magical finding someone who wants to do that.
 Jeremy: On that note, I also do recommend to not make obvious blatant advertisements on the book. When someone normally gets a book, you wouldn’t see a blatant advertisement. But marketing is something that we’re very focused on with the book. We help with the launch. We are focused on joint ventures. There are easily things you can do to give the reader more value and subtly promote the other company. Using the example of the fitness trainer. Within the book, the fitness trainer talks about using this particular protein supplement. The company is mentioned several times. The author could mention a guide that talks about 50 smoothie recipes to use this supplement with, and they download this guide with these recipes. That company is mentioned, and there is a link you can go to to order this supplement. There are things you can do to not make it an advertisement, but an added value for the reader.
 Hugh: It’s only fair. You have several books. Book Publishing on Demand, Power Authority, and Lead Flow. Those are on Amazon?
 Jeremy: Yeah.
 Hugh: You can also find them on JonesMediaPublishing.com. Then you have a podcast. AskJeremyJones.com/Podcast. What kind of things do you talk about on your podcast?
 Jeremy: The podcast is a lot of fun. We just published our 169th episode. The show is called Ideas and Impact. We interview authors, speakers, and subject matter experts about three big ideas you feel could be really impactful for people if they applied them into their lives, either on the personal side or on the business side. We have interviewed people about relationships, marriage, parenting on the personal side. On the wealth side of things, business growth, marketing, sales, things like that. And on the health side, we have talked about health and fitness, weight loss, all things. It’s similar to like a TED Talk. You go there to listen for something insightful that you can immediately put into action with your life. It’s been a lot of fun.
 Hugh: I am sorry I didn’t know about your podcast, but I do now. Is there anybody on the horizon that will be exciting?
 Jeremy: John Nemo is on the line-up. He is a LinkedIn expert. Teaches people how to optimize their LinkedIn profile. We mention John David Mann, who is the co-author of The Go-Giver and also Bob Berg, who co-authored it. We interviewed Ivan Meisner from BNI, the largest business organization in the world. That was an incredible interview as well. We’ve had a few high-level celebrity-type people. We have Hugh up and coming. That’s a given, Hugh.
 Hugh: I have been having back problems, but I had a shot today, so I’m a new man. Which new man I am. I am eager to find out more. I am going to listen to it.
 Jeremy: You can get all the episodes at AskJeremyJones.com.
 Hugh: Jeremy Jones, you are a real wealth of information. We had an author last week, Scott S. Smith, who has written 1,800 leadership articles for Investors Business Daily of all places. Leaders want to know about leaders. It was a powerful interview. I look forward to sharing some things with your audience. This has been helpful. I am reliving my journey of writing a book. I will say to people I spent 40 years in church music ministry. One time, I did a pivot and said, “I am a transformational leader.” I repositioned myself. I went from having my back to the audience as a conductor to facing the audience as a speaker. That was a physical 180-degree transformation. The book was a way for me to be clear on my message. Once I started writing, I found out I knew a whole lot of stuff that was valuable to people. We are in the third printing. To keep the price down, I bought a whole bunch. You can have a print book, but you can do it on demand. You can print a few. You can print a bunch. What are some of the options when you publish a book?
 Jeremy: We recommend to start with the print on demand option to get the process going until the author has enough established where they can hold some books on hand, which is a good idea to have some on hand. In most cases, because we run a printing and distribution facility, we can print on demand pretty quickly for our authors. We have one author just recently about a week and a half ago did an event with 200 people. She let us know, “Hey, I am doing an event with 200 people. I am going to need 200 books at this address.” We print them, package them up, ship them to her event. Within about five business days, they can be printed. We can fulfill and do that on demand. For higher quantities of books, make sure there is a good reason to have a higher quantity. You can get some price breaks. We can do that as well. Typically, what we do is start with the paperback. That’s established. The author knows their printing pricing. We can work with that as well. Then we have the e-book version. There is no hard cost there. Once we finalize the paperback and do the release, a few of our authors like to have a hardback version. We do have printing facility capabilities to do that version with a dust jacket, which looks really nice. The printing cost is a little bit higher, but we have worked it out where we can do it on fairly low quantities. We can do a couple hundred books for a reasonable cost.
 Hugh: Good to know. There is the paperback, the hardback, the e-book, and the Kindle book. What about audiobooks? Are those valuable?
 Jeremy: Those are valuable. We provide some training and resources of how to get that up and going. We don’t provide the services to do that. There is three options. Some of the authors want to speak the book themselves, which we usually recommend as the best option. But they have to have capability to go to a studio, record the audios, and have it cut properly for Amazon ACX, which is Audible’s program for audiobooks. The second option is you can hire a voice actor and pay them up front. You still retain your side of the rights, and you get the royalties from Amazon directly. The third option is you can hire a voice recording artist and split the royalties with them. That’s all built into there. You can choose the royalty option you want. We provide some resources. If the author wants to do an audiobook, we guide them on what is the best option and how it works.
 Hugh: That was the audiobook from Barefoot Winery. They were our guest a few weeks ago. They had a whole drama team that did the book. It was stunning. They didn’t spare any cost. They sold the winery. They are marketing experts who accidentally got into the winery business. I never thought about getting a drama team to produce the book. It was a story. That was powerful. They helped nonprofits raise money through their activity with the winery. The book was out there to say this is an idea for you. It’s been a bestseller for quite a while.
 Jeremy: I like that. It makes sense.
 Hugh: A lot of people do creative things. Books are not dead. I was talking to somebody the other day about how good leaders read. People at the top of their game read. There is no variance to that. They read the same books again over time and mark it with a different color marker because you will see different things when you go back. On my bookshelf, I have a lot of Kindle books, too. Somebody was telling me a physical book, you absorb better. Do you have an opinion on that, whether physical books are better than e-books?
 Jeremy: I am of the view that everybody learns differently. When some people learn something new or when they relax, they like to look at the words on a physical paper. I like to do that, too. I like to look and jot notes in the margins or write things down as I’m going. Total focus. If I have a book I want to totally focus on, I will get a paperback. I find that’s the case with most people. When you just want to take a book with you, I have a Kindle app as well on all my devices, I like to have e-books as well to have books I can reference. E-books are great for that, to have a library of books you can carry around with you everywhere. Audiobooks are popular right now. We are starting to get more involved with that, with our clients. That’s a great medium for when people are busy. A lot of business owners listen to audiobooks now. When you’re driving and commuting places, you can listen to audiobooks. You can’t read while you’re driving until we all have self-driving Teslas, which I don’t know how many years that’s out. For right now, we’re not reading while we’re driving, so audiobooks are a great option for that. I think it depends on how you consume information. I agree with you. I don’t think paperbacks, even though we have all these capabilities in different mediums, I really don’t think that they’re going anywhere.
 Hugh: I agree. *Sponsor message from Wordsprint* Jeremy Jones, what do you want to leave people with?
 Jeremy: For anyone watching or listening, if you have had a dream and a desire to write a book, we have many people say, “I just wanted to write something, to inspire people, to share a message with people.” A lot of people think that contacting a publisher too early in the process. I need to get further along. I need to write out my ideas. I need to get to some point before I explore that with anyone. I think the earlier, the better. That’s what we’re here for. On the foundational process, of making sure all the things work together to meet your objectives for a book. Some people, I say, “Hey, I think this is a great idea for a book, but not now. With where you’re at and what you’re doing, wait until you have this set up or this timing is better.” A lot of it is timing. That’s what we do. We do a free book strategy session with anyone who would like to explore the idea of a book, how it can integrate with your organization, how that could work. We’d be happy to explore that. Also, I run a free Facebook group for the podcast called Ideas and Impact. If you go to AskJeremyJones.com, there is a Facebook icon at the top. Click on that, and you can join our free group. I am happy to answer any questions you have or explore the idea with you.
 Hugh: Jeremy Jones, this has been a delight. I have published lots of books, but I have learned a lot of new stuff today.
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      <pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2020 15:23:42 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/75287ac8-b329-11eb-9f0f-0bbaed0fe10e/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Jeremy Jones</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How Speakers And Experts Can Write And Publish A Book For Social Impact Interview with Jeremy Jones
 Jeremy C. Jones, a proud military veteran, is also a family man and entrepreneur who lives in Paradise Valley, Arizona. His accomplishments include being a four-time #1 Best-Selling Author on Amazon, hosting the popular podcast “Ideas &amp; Impact,” and founding and serving as CEO at Jones Media Publishing.
  
  
 Read the Interview
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. Welcome to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. This little interview will be packed with some ideas we hope will be useful to you. Today, we have Jeremy Jones, who comes to us from north Scottsdale, Arizona. Jeremy, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell folks a little bit about you, why you’re doing this, and your passion.
 Jeremy Jones: Absolutely. Thank you so much for the introduction. I appreciate it. A little bit about my background. I grew up in southern California and went into the military at the age of 18. I was stationed on an aircraft carrier for four years. Just to give your audience a reference of time, when I was getting ready to get out of the military was during the September 11 attack, 2001. I was a part of Operation Enduring Freedom. I was in the military during that time and shortly got out after, which was March of 2002. I moved here to Arizona, where I have been living and working of about 17 years now. Over time, I got my Bachelor of Arts degree. I started working of a company, working for myself. At the point where I had transitioned to fully working for myself, I was looking to get an edge on not only just the competition, but to set myself apart because I felt like I was really good at what I did. I authored a book and saw how it helped open up doors for me to get speaking engagements. I helped one of our clients be able to publish a book as well. That is where I developed a specialty of what we do with book publishing. Right now, I currently have that program. It’s all we do. It’s my primary business. Jones Media Publishing is the top rated book publisher for coaches, consultants, speakers, and experts to help them publish a book that can be used as a tool to get speaking engagements and new clients.
 I am so passionate about this because a book can be a tool to help an expert share their message that is impactful, share the story of the charity, nonprofit, or organization, to share the reason why they do what they do and the principles behind it, to help them reach an audience that are outside of their sphere of influence.
 Hugh: That’s really great. I published my first book in 2007. It’s called Moving Spirits, Building Lives. It’s a church musician as a transformational leader. It’s how I pivoted from being a conductor into organizational leadership. The conductor takes a bunch of singers and transforms them into a choir, transforms the choir into an ensemble, transforms people’s lives. In church work, in the orchestra, it’s the same kind of thing. I teach people how to build high-performing teams. I self-published and went to a church music conference. Nobody knew me. I had a bunch of books. There were 600 people there, and I sold 100 books. All of a sudden, people were quoting me, and I was a celebrity because I was an authority on a topic. Now, it took me 40 years to write the book, 30 days to put it on paper. So I sent myself a daily regimen and outlined it and wrote it. Miscellaneous chapters. I wrote the ones that flowed easily. The fist chapter I wrote was “Managing Time.” I wrote about it, so I have to do it. I can tell you that was a business card. The book was an open-door business card. People are really impressed that you have a book. I have had several other people quote my books in other books on the topic. That was my basic premise on transformational leadership. I have done other books and courses. It was really me putting on paper. The process was clarifying for me.
 What do you find is most helpful? We’re talking to clergy and nonprofit leaders and their teams. I do experience they have lots of stories to tell, but they don’t know how to get them out there. We think we published a book and it’s a bestseller, so we’re going to be filthy rich. That’s not exactly the purpose, is it?
 Jeremy: No, not necessarily. So we always start with the foundation. A lot of times, when someone is referred to us, they come to us for three primary reasons. One is for contribution. They have a message that is important to them; they want to get it out to as many people as possible. The second reason is to have it be a tool to get clients for their business or speaking engagements, which furthers the message about what they do. The third reason is for credibility and authority. The book serves as a purpose to position you as an authority, a specialized expert at what you do.
 Whenever someone comes to us and says, “I have a book, but I feel like I’m stuck,” which is common, we start with the main purpose of the book. What is the purpose of the book for you? The whole structure and the outline of the book can be determined to serve that purpose if we know the reason why the author is writing the book, and who they are writing it for. You’d be surprised how many people don’t think through that process. That’s what we’re very good at. That’s what we work with each of our authors on. We develop a profile of who the book is for, what we need to cover within the book. We help them structure and outline their book properly.
 I will give you an example here based on your question. We had one author who wanted to be a public speaker. Inside of her book, she didn’t mention anything about her having the ability to speak, or that she has even spoken. And she had spoken. What I recommended to her, because she was pretty far along, is within the book, rather than telling a bunch of random stories, she told a very specific story how she went to go speak somewhere, what she said impacted the people in the audience, and what happened as a result. A real quick story. Doesn’t need to be very long. Only needs to be a couple of paragraphs. Because she told that story, it illustrated the point that she is a professional speaker. It demonstrates that she speaks, and people get a positive response by her speaking. Guess what a meeting organizer wants when they want you to speak? A good response from the audience, and for the audience to do something with what they learned. They want their speaker to perform to their audience and bring value to their audience.
 There are certain things we can do with the outline based on the purpose. You asked your question about stories. Depending on the purpose, depending on the structure and outline also depends how much of those stories or what stories even to make sense to include.
 Hugh: Before people melt down and say that’s too much work, let me unpack a couple things. I found it very empowering laying it out in writing. I had cleared a month to write my first book. Those other books were written piecemeal through blog posts or other things I had put together. You have to be careful if you do it randomly so it has continuity. Having a good editor.
 The thing that occurs to me is a lot of churches and nonprofits don’t consider branding. What you’re talking about is your branding. Who are you? Who is your audience? How do you show up with that audience? What is your brand image?
 I had a brander publish a book called Twist. Her publicist contacted me and wanted an interview on my business podcast. During the interview, I had her book out. We were talking about putting a twist on your brand. I asked her, “How did you find me?” She said, “Your brand really stood out: the conductor that teaches leadership. That sets you out above everybody else.” If you’re having trouble in your charity raising money, getting volunteers, maybe your brand isn’t clear. If people aren’t coming to your church or synagogue, there may not be a clear brand image on what they can expect or who you’re marketing to. What are they going to experience when they get there? Why should they come? Any of those things, do you help people sort that out? Or do they need to come in with a brand ready? Do you help them decide who they are and how they want to show up in the world?
 Jeremy: That’s what we help each of our authors and clients with. It starts with the structure and outline of the book first. Determining what is included in all of the chapters. We do a lot of research on book titles. The title is an important component of the book because that is the first thing that potential readers or audience members at an event see. When they see you’re the author of X book, that’s a determining factor to represent who you are. If you have a book about purpose, like Purpose-Driven Life, you know that’s what the author is representing and talking about in their book. If you have a book called Family History Secrets, they are all about the secrets of their family. The title of the book does represent the message and what the author is all about. All of those things need to be considered with the end in mind. That’s why I reference quite a bit with our members, because we coach our members through the entire process, from a blank Word document to published book, is we always do what Stephen Covey said in his famous book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, is begin with the end in mind. We always look at the end in mind for the purpose and the title.
 Hugh: It sounds awfully hard. I did everything myself. I went and found a printer. Actually, I had pitched my first book. Instead of making a dollar, it cost me a dollar, and I made $13 selling the book. They said clergy wouldn’t buy it, but most people had clergy. I put music notes on my cover. My name was big on the cover. I don’t know if I would redo it. If I feel like I want to do that, I would redo another type of book.
 All of that stuff. I am looking back and thinking, I wish I’d had somebody like Jeremy Jones guide me through the process. It was difficult. I had somebody proof it who didn’t do a good job. My first printing was full of typos. That is a credibility issue.
 Jeremy: It is. What we do is we have the entire process outlined in three phases. That’s how we are basically a guide, guiding people through the process so it doesn’t ever feel overwhelming. We have divided our unique publishing process into three primary phases. Phase one is what we call the create or foundation phase. That’s everything related to who the book is for, the purpose of the book for you, getting the book structured and outlined properly in a simple and systematic way, getting the book written in a time-effective manner because we know most of our authors or members are not writing the book three hours a day. They have a certain window of time they can allot outside of their business or profession. We are sensitive to that. We realize it does take an amount of time, but we want it to be as efficient as possible for each of our members. We have some programs in order to do that to help keep the writing efficient, providing editing along the way to provide feedback and insight for the author. That’s all phase one.
 Then it goes to our team of editors to edit it properly so that the author doesn’t have to deal with any of what you just mentioned. Where we have had people come to us and say, “I tried to do this myself. It’s full of typos. I need to get it done right.” Our model is that traditional publishing house level of quality, but each of our authors retains full rights to their book. Everything I just mentioned is in phase one.
 Phase two is everything related to what we call packaging it. Packaging it as a product. Professional book cover design. The layout for the paperback book. Amazon and Kindle ebook formatting. Those are the primary three book formats.
 The third phase is the book release. When we first start our authors and they are thinking about their release, what we do is help guide them. Let’s do phase one first. Then we move to phase two, then phase three. That’s what we do is help facilitate each of those steps along the way so there is never any guesswork.
 Hugh: That’s important. My clients in launching and growing an organization, people don’t know what to do next. They do things randomly, which is not productive. It sounds like what could be a complicated process, you have streamlined what to do next. Is there a lot of I think what holds up a lot of people is they say I have to carve out time to do all this writing. I’ll do that next year. It’s the I’m going to wait until the perfect time. I will do it when… the famous excuse. Why should people wait? Can they get started? Is there a different way to put words on paper? Can they dictate them and have someone transcribe them? Are there options?
 Jeremy: There definitely are options. When we are in the writing phase, if the author wants to dictate what they have written, we have a unique process around doing that. It all starts with making sure everything is organized properly. If we have a book structure in place, if we have the outline in place, when the author is dictating something, it’s not random. What creates a high expense for editing, the editing process completely multiplies itself and becomes expensive, when the editor has to go in and restructure and rewrite the developmental edit of everything. What we recommend is to do it in bite-sized chunks. Chapter one is typically broken into about three or five subparts. If the author is going to speak their book and transcribe it, they only focus on chapter one, point one. Then chapter one, point two. Then chapter one, point three. They are only talking about this one thing for a short period of time. That can be transcribed and cleaned up because it’s focused, and it doesn’t need this entire reworking. That piece dramatically deceases the time.
 Another thing is the reason that most people take a lot of time to write their book is because they don’t have everything structured from the beginning. What a lot of our authors do is prior to them working with us, is they get an idea and are excited about turning it into a book. They get committed to it. They are on fire about it. They see the impact. They grab their laptop and start pounding away at the keyboard, writing that story and this story. It’s a bunch of stuff they are typing out. Then they get to the point where they go, “Wait a minute. Should I include this in chapter one or four? Maybe this should be later in the book and this should be earlier.” They find themselves for five hours taking this and moving it here, taking this and moving that there, and rewording it. That process is frustrating and time-consuming.
 Our unique process we have developed is to help the author develop a proper structure for a book based on industry publishing standards to get it all structured first and then fill in the gaps. The way I like to illustrate this is when you think about a sculptor that is sculpting a big heavy sculpture. If it’s big and heavy, they don’t take a giant glob of clay, plop it there, and start doing fine detail. That’s what people do with writing a book. They don’t write it immediately in fine detail. What a sculptor does is they develop a wire frame of the body of the sculpture, and then they build the mesh. The mesh represents the body of it. Then they put on the clay, which forms the fine detail. If you do the same process when writing a book, first you look at the structure, which makes up all the chapters. Then you look at the chapters, which makes up each of those components for a properly published book. But you get to the writing once that is developed. You are cutting your writing time by a fifth; you will have a fifth of the time it takes to write in my experience.
 Hugh: There is always this fear of the unknown. I’ve had people tell me that they have done a series of blog posts and written the book and build excitement as they launch the book. People have read the blog and still buy the book because it’s all in one place instead of strung out into a series of articles. That sounds like a good way to lay it out and think through it and get some real-time response. Do you have a reading on that?
 Jeremy: Sure, we’ve had authors who have done that. We’ve had authors who have done that with writing. If your style is you’re more comfortable with writing, that’s a great way to do that. Get to the exercise of writing and putting out blog posts and getting feedback. That’s a great way to start. We have had another author as well who does it through audio forums, the course of a podcast. We’ll have a chapter he wants to talk about, stories he wants to share, through the course of the podcast verbally. He is talking through the content that he wants to include in the book. That is a great exercise as well to speak out the story. Then you relisten to yourself telling the story, and you can very easily type it out, have it transcribed and cleaned up. Sure. Doing that process is a great exercise because you can get some feedback from people. See the response, the engagement, who leaves a comment. That’s a helpful way to do that.
 Hugh: One thing I notice is you talk about the title. The title makes me stop when I go in the bookstore. All these books. What first catches my attention is the title. Not only the words in the title, but how it’s laid out. Then I pick up the book, and I look for an index and the contents. If it’s just a bunch of boring copy, that’s a downer for me. I respect books that are laid out with some highlights, some images. I had mine with some little breakout highlighted paragraphs with tips throughout. I look for specific things that say to me it will be an interesting journey when I read this book. The titling is wordsmithing, but the rest of it, the cover appearance, the appearance of the title, and the book, what are the factors that encourage people- I’m talking about a physical book now. What are some of the things that make the book attractive so a person would want to pick it up and buy it?
 Jeremy: That’s a great question. The first thing is the book title. The primary title, and the subtitle. I always encourage authors to create a compelling subtitle. The primary title should basically encompass the main thing the book is about. The subtitle should give the readers some additional information to help clarify what the book is all about. That’s the first thing. The image of the book should be simple. Some of the best-selling books are simply all typography. Typography means it’s all text. The title of the book should be clear and easy to read. In most cases, no script. Real scripted fonts are a bad idea because of readability. You want it at first glance to be easily read. Then the cover has pleasing design.
 The very next thing, you imagine if you are in a bookstore, is you flip the book open. The book should have a well-written book description on the back of the book, which teases or creates curiosity for the potential reader to let them know what’s inside the book. That’s on the physical book. On the Amazon book listing, we recommend to most of our authors who want to include it is you want to tease to the potential reader what’s potentially in a variety of chapters in your book. Topic #1 would be chapter one. You would let them know what they would get out of each chapter in some bullet points. Giving those bullet points to that potential reader is giving them some insight as to what is in the book. The nice thing about Amazon as well is they have the ability if you are getting the book online to do a Look Inside and see the table of contents.
 What we find in most cases is the first line of defense is the book cover. Then it’s the back, which is the description on the back of the book or in the Amazon book listing description. Then once when they are inside the book, it’s the table of contents. That right there also lets you know you need to have a well-written table of contents that also informs the reader as to what is in the chapter. Those should also be well-written. They are almost like many titles of your book. They are titles of your chapters. That’s what I recommend.
 Hugh: I threw up a cover. This is my fourth book. It was one of the imprints for the United Methodist Publishing House, which has since closed. They did this attractive cover. It was an anthology, so I had famous people on the front and endorsements from the back from two authors of Chicken Soup. We made it to the second print. What was a mistake was the cover doesn’t have the subtitle. It was Stories of Transformation by Leaders. I didn’t realize until after I had released it that it didn’t have it there. That was a liability. To your point, it looked interesting. They had an artist do it, so I went with it. I do find that I look for what it’s really about.
 The other thing is picking the right categories. With Moving Spirits, Building Lives, it’s #2 in the transformational leadership category. I don’t know how it got there because that was mostly by accident. I tried intentionally to get this one to bestseller. Just wanted to say I did it. I didn’t make a lot of money, especially if you go through a regular publisher, you don’t get paid until you get that advance back. Speak more about the artistry of design and how, this subliminal message and attraction thing that goes on to entice them to grab it. Once they grab it, that’s half the battle, wouldn’t you say?
 Jeremy: I would say so, yeah. Grabbing their attention first, yes. Once you have their attention, then it’s the book description that takes them to the next piece. The title leads to the subtitle leads to the description leads to the table of contents, which leads them into the book. If they feel like the book would bring them value, that’s when they make the decision to buy the book. Nonfiction books, the value in most cases is something they would learn to improve their life. About 80% of the books we publish are nonfiction. The value to the reader for fiction books is entertainment. Getting them outside of their own reality and their mind to imagine this outside world as entertainment. That is the value you bring to them. A lot of fiction authors don’t consider that, but they have to market it that way when they are looking at writing their book description. How can you paint the picture of the value you will bring to this reader, which is capturing their mind and imagination?
 Hugh: I’m positioning a book as part of the overall marketing program for a nonprofit. Is that okay? It’s a marketing tool. There are lots of reasons, but for the purposes of where I’m going with this. It’s part of the awareness. It doesn’t differ for an entrepreneur running a business. Like leadership, the principles are the same.
 I’m a speaker, too. Speaking itself is not a sustainable revenue source. You get paid, and it’s gone. What we want to do is have back of the room material. You want to have books, courses, and other things you can offer people, which is a secondary flow of revenue. A lot of nonprofits have a lot of resources, their own and those of others who provide value in the space they are operating. Talk a minute about how a 501(c)3 can use a book to monetize, to bring in revenue.
 Jeremy: That is a great question. To answer your question, the way we have seen this work best, because of our model, we have a traditional publishing house level of quality. The author retains full rights, and they earn 100% of the royalties, minus the printing cost of the book. In that situation, where we’ve had two paths here, number one is the expert or influencer would write the book from their perspective, teaching something, sharing a message, and the nonprofit is mentioned within the book. The sale of the books would go to raise funds for a 501(c)3. You could sell a bundle of books to a company. When they buy books, the profit of books goes to the nonprofit. That is one way.
 Another way we have seen several of our authors do is the author runs a business themselves, or they are a speaker. But the nonprofit is the sponsor of the book. The nonprofit is mentioned on the back of the book. A portion of the proceeds go from the sale of the books toward the nonprofit. When the author is promoting the book, they can say, “A portion of the proceeds are going toward this nonprofit.” People like to contribute to causes or businesses that contribute to causes. There is a lot of joint venture opportunities that could come from that as well. The 501(c)3 could have donor lists. A list of all people who have donated. They could send a message to the donors saying, “We have partnered with this author. The proceeds are going back to our nonprofit. We think our audience would love this book. If you buy this book, proceeds go.” There are different types of things you could do within the marketing to split the proceeds or all of the proceeds because the author gets paid to speak or a back-end to the book where they are not so concerned about the profits of the book. This can be good. But they get paid on coaching clients, business services, things like that.
 Hugh: I have also said there are purpose books that teach people about particular things, how to get out of poverty, topics like that that explain to constituents. I live in Lynchburg, Virginia, where we have a high poverty rate. There are lots of initiatives about poverty. Getting them food, housing, and clothing does not raise them out of poverty. It’s the mindset. The mindset takes us to a very different place. My material is helping people reframe their thinking. I spend a lot of time reframing the thinking for nonprofit leaders. I have seen occasions where a sponsor buys the back page. It’s a helpful book for a certain segment or purpose. They give it away. But it has the sponsor message. They will buy 10,000 books. The company itself uses it for a marketing tool, and there is a mass distribution. Is that a scenario you see much? Does it really work?
 Jeremy: To a degree. I would say the most important thing is the sponsor, or the one representing, is in complete alignment with the audience or the reader and the values of the company. With your example, we publish quite a few books for health and wellness professionals or health coaches. I would never recommend they have a big soda company for obvious reasons because they can’t condone drinking soda.
 Hugh: Different brands.
 Jeremy: And the purpose of the product as well. Coca-Cola, Dr. Pepper, they are not bad companies. It’s just a drink. But it’s not ever recommended by that particular person. If a health and fitness trainer wrote a book and they wanted to have a dietary supplement be a sponsor, perfect alignment. The supplement provider could email or promote or Facebook ads, whatever they choose to do, to promote the book, and it also tells them in the book how to take the supplement, which the trainer recommends. There is consistency happening there. I always recommend looking at, in most cases, there is, there is some sort of consistency you could create, and there is a company out there that would see that as alignment for their brand.
 Hugh: It’s the principle I was trying to illuminate there. If their brand is compatible with your brand, and there is value for both brands.
 Jeremy: I’d say so.
 Hugh: It’s not magical finding someone who wants to do that.
 Jeremy: On that note, I also do recommend to not make obvious blatant advertisements on the book. When someone normally gets a book, you wouldn’t see a blatant advertisement. But marketing is something that we’re very focused on with the book. We help with the launch. We are focused on joint ventures. There are easily things you can do to give the reader more value and subtly promote the other company. Using the example of the fitness trainer. Within the book, the fitness trainer talks about using this particular protein supplement. The company is mentioned several times. The author could mention a guide that talks about 50 smoothie recipes to use this supplement with, and they download this guide with these recipes. That company is mentioned, and there is a link you can go to to order this supplement. There are things you can do to not make it an advertisement, but an added value for the reader.
 Hugh: It’s only fair. You have several books. Book Publishing on Demand, Power Authority, and Lead Flow. Those are on Amazon?
 Jeremy: Yeah.
 Hugh: You can also find them on JonesMediaPublishing.com. Then you have a podcast. AskJeremyJones.com/Podcast. What kind of things do you talk about on your podcast?
 Jeremy: The podcast is a lot of fun. We just published our 169th episode. The show is called Ideas and Impact. We interview authors, speakers, and subject matter experts about three big ideas you feel could be really impactful for people if they applied them into their lives, either on the personal side or on the business side. We have interviewed people about relationships, marriage, parenting on the personal side. On the wealth side of things, business growth, marketing, sales, things like that. And on the health side, we have talked about health and fitness, weight loss, all things. It’s similar to like a TED Talk. You go there to listen for something insightful that you can immediately put into action with your life. It’s been a lot of fun.
 Hugh: I am sorry I didn’t know about your podcast, but I do now. Is there anybody on the horizon that will be exciting?
 Jeremy: John Nemo is on the line-up. He is a LinkedIn expert. Teaches people how to optimize their LinkedIn profile. We mention John David Mann, who is the co-author of The Go-Giver and also Bob Berg, who co-authored it. We interviewed Ivan Meisner from BNI, the largest business organization in the world. That was an incredible interview as well. We’ve had a few high-level celebrity-type people. We have Hugh up and coming. That’s a given, Hugh.
 Hugh: I have been having back problems, but I had a shot today, so I’m a new man. Which new man I am. I am eager to find out more. I am going to listen to it.
 Jeremy: You can get all the episodes at AskJeremyJones.com.
 Hugh: Jeremy Jones, you are a real wealth of information. We had an author last week, Scott S. Smith, who has written 1,800 leadership articles for Investors Business Daily of all places. Leaders want to know about leaders. It was a powerful interview. I look forward to sharing some things with your audience. This has been helpful. I am reliving my journey of writing a book. I will say to people I spent 40 years in church music ministry. One time, I did a pivot and said, “I am a transformational leader.” I repositioned myself. I went from having my back to the audience as a conductor to facing the audience as a speaker. That was a physical 180-degree transformation. The book was a way for me to be clear on my message. Once I started writing, I found out I knew a whole lot of stuff that was valuable to people. We are in the third printing. To keep the price down, I bought a whole bunch. You can have a print book, but you can do it on demand. You can print a few. You can print a bunch. What are some of the options when you publish a book?
 Jeremy: We recommend to start with the print on demand option to get the process going until the author has enough established where they can hold some books on hand, which is a good idea to have some on hand. In most cases, because we run a printing and distribution facility, we can print on demand pretty quickly for our authors. We have one author just recently about a week and a half ago did an event with 200 people. She let us know, “Hey, I am doing an event with 200 people. I am going to need 200 books at this address.” We print them, package them up, ship them to her event. Within about five business days, they can be printed. We can fulfill and do that on demand. For higher quantities of books, make sure there is a good reason to have a higher quantity. You can get some price breaks. We can do that as well. Typically, what we do is start with the paperback. That’s established. The author knows their printing pricing. We can work with that as well. Then we have the e-book version. There is no hard cost there. Once we finalize the paperback and do the release, a few of our authors like to have a hardback version. We do have printing facility capabilities to do that version with a dust jacket, which looks really nice. The printing cost is a little bit higher, but we have worked it out where we can do it on fairly low quantities. We can do a couple hundred books for a reasonable cost.
 Hugh: Good to know. There is the paperback, the hardback, the e-book, and the Kindle book. What about audiobooks? Are those valuable?
 Jeremy: Those are valuable. We provide some training and resources of how to get that up and going. We don’t provide the services to do that. There is three options. Some of the authors want to speak the book themselves, which we usually recommend as the best option. But they have to have capability to go to a studio, record the audios, and have it cut properly for Amazon ACX, which is Audible’s program for audiobooks. The second option is you can hire a voice actor and pay them up front. You still retain your side of the rights, and you get the royalties from Amazon directly. The third option is you can hire a voice recording artist and split the royalties with them. That’s all built into there. You can choose the royalty option you want. We provide some resources. If the author wants to do an audiobook, we guide them on what is the best option and how it works.
 Hugh: That was the audiobook from Barefoot Winery. They were our guest a few weeks ago. They had a whole drama team that did the book. It was stunning. They didn’t spare any cost. They sold the winery. They are marketing experts who accidentally got into the winery business. I never thought about getting a drama team to produce the book. It was a story. That was powerful. They helped nonprofits raise money through their activity with the winery. The book was out there to say this is an idea for you. It’s been a bestseller for quite a while.
 Jeremy: I like that. It makes sense.
 Hugh: A lot of people do creative things. Books are not dead. I was talking to somebody the other day about how good leaders read. People at the top of their game read. There is no variance to that. They read the same books again over time and mark it with a different color marker because you will see different things when you go back. On my bookshelf, I have a lot of Kindle books, too. Somebody was telling me a physical book, you absorb better. Do you have an opinion on that, whether physical books are better than e-books?
 Jeremy: I am of the view that everybody learns differently. When some people learn something new or when they relax, they like to look at the words on a physical paper. I like to do that, too. I like to look and jot notes in the margins or write things down as I’m going. Total focus. If I have a book I want to totally focus on, I will get a paperback. I find that’s the case with most people. When you just want to take a book with you, I have a Kindle app as well on all my devices, I like to have e-books as well to have books I can reference. E-books are great for that, to have a library of books you can carry around with you everywhere. Audiobooks are popular right now. We are starting to get more involved with that, with our clients. That’s a great medium for when people are busy. A lot of business owners listen to audiobooks now. When you’re driving and commuting places, you can listen to audiobooks. You can’t read while you’re driving until we all have self-driving Teslas, which I don’t know how many years that’s out. For right now, we’re not reading while we’re driving, so audiobooks are a great option for that. I think it depends on how you consume information. I agree with you. I don’t think paperbacks, even though we have all these capabilities in different mediums, I really don’t think that they’re going anywhere.
 Hugh: I agree. *Sponsor message from Wordsprint* Jeremy Jones, what do you want to leave people with?
 Jeremy: For anyone watching or listening, if you have had a dream and a desire to write a book, we have many people say, “I just wanted to write something, to inspire people, to share a message with people.” A lot of people think that contacting a publisher too early in the process. I need to get further along. I need to write out my ideas. I need to get to some point before I explore that with anyone. I think the earlier, the better. That’s what we’re here for. On the foundational process, of making sure all the things work together to meet your objectives for a book. Some people, I say, “Hey, I think this is a great idea for a book, but not now. With where you’re at and what you’re doing, wait until you have this set up or this timing is better.” A lot of it is timing. That’s what we do. We do a free book strategy session with anyone who would like to explore the idea of a book, how it can integrate with your organization, how that could work. We’d be happy to explore that. Also, I run a free Facebook group for the podcast called Ideas and Impact. If you go to AskJeremyJones.com, there is a Facebook icon at the top. Click on that, and you can join our free group. I am happy to answer any questions you have or explore the idea with you.
 Hugh: Jeremy Jones, this has been a delight. I have published lots of books, but I have learned a lot of new stuff today.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>How Speakers And Experts Can Write And Publish A Book For Social Impact Interview with Jeremy Jones</strong></p> <p><strong>Jeremy C. Jones</strong>, a proud military veteran, is also a family man and entrepreneur who lives in Paradise Valley, Arizona. His accomplishments include being a four-time #1 Best-Selling Author on Amazon, hosting the popular podcast “Ideas &amp; Impact,” and founding and serving as CEO at Jones Media Publishing.</p> <p> </p> <p> </p> <p>Read the Interview</p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. Welcome to this episode of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> This little interview will be packed with some ideas we hope will be useful to you. Today, we have Jeremy Jones, who comes to us from north Scottsdale, Arizona. Jeremy, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Tell folks a little bit about you, why you’re doing this, and your passion.</p> <p><strong>Jeremy Jones:</strong> Absolutely. Thank you so much for the introduction. I appreciate it. A little bit about my background. I grew up in southern California and went into the military at the age of 18. I was stationed on an aircraft carrier for four years. Just to give your audience a reference of time, when I was getting ready to get out of the military was during the September 11 attack, 2001. I was a part of Operation Enduring Freedom. I was in the military during that time and shortly got out after, which was March of 2002. I moved here to Arizona, where I have been living and working of about 17 years now. Over time, I got my Bachelor of Arts degree. I started working of a company, working for myself. At the point where I had transitioned to fully working for myself, I was looking to get an edge on not only just the competition, but to set myself apart because I felt like I was really good at what I did. I authored a book and saw how it helped open up doors for me to get speaking engagements. I helped one of our clients be able to publish a book as well. That is where I developed a specialty of what we do with book publishing. Right now, I currently have that program. It’s all we do. It’s my primary business. Jones Media Publishing is the top rated book publisher for coaches, consultants, speakers, and experts to help them publish a book that can be used as a tool to get speaking engagements and new clients.</p> <p>I am so passionate about this because a book can be a tool to help an expert share their message that is impactful, share the story of the charity, nonprofit, or organization, to share the reason why they do what they do and the principles behind it, to help them reach an audience that are outside of their sphere of influence.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s really great. I published my first book in 2007. It’s called <em>Moving Spirits, Building Lives.</em> It’s a church musician as a transformational leader. It’s how I pivoted from being a conductor into organizational leadership. The conductor takes a bunch of singers and transforms them into a choir, transforms the choir into an ensemble, transforms people’s lives. In church work, in the orchestra, it’s the same kind of thing. I teach people how to build high-performing teams. I self-published and went to a church music conference. Nobody knew me. I had a bunch of books. There were 600 people there, and I sold 100 books. All of a sudden, people were quoting me, and I was a celebrity because I was an authority on a topic. Now, it took me 40 years to write the book, 30 days to put it on paper. So I sent myself a daily regimen and outlined it and wrote it. Miscellaneous chapters. I wrote the ones that flowed easily. The fist chapter I wrote was “Managing Time.” I wrote about it, so I have to do it. I can tell you that was a business card. The book was an open-door business card. People are really impressed that you have a book. I have had several other people quote my books in other books on the topic. That was my basic premise on transformational leadership. I have done other books and courses. It was really me putting on paper. The process was clarifying for me.</p> <p>What do you find is most helpful? We’re talking to clergy and nonprofit leaders and their teams. I do experience they have lots of stories to tell, but they don’t know how to get them out there. We think we published a book and it’s a bestseller, so we’re going to be filthy rich. That’s not exactly the purpose, is it?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> No, not necessarily. So we always start with the foundation. A lot of times, when someone is referred to us, they come to us for three primary reasons. One is for contribution. They have a message that is important to them; they want to get it out to as many people as possible. The second reason is to have it be a tool to get clients for their business or speaking engagements, which furthers the message about what they do. The third reason is for credibility and authority. The book serves as a purpose to position you as an authority, a specialized expert at what you do.</p> <p>Whenever someone comes to us and says, “I have a book, but I feel like I’m stuck,” which is common, we start with the main purpose of the book. What is the purpose of the book for you? The whole structure and the outline of the book can be determined to serve that purpose if we know the reason why the author is writing the book, and who they are writing it for. You’d be surprised how many people don’t think through that process. That’s what we’re very good at. That’s what we work with each of our authors on. We develop a profile of who the book is for, what we need to cover within the book. We help them structure and outline their book properly.</p> <p>I will give you an example here based on your question. We had one author who wanted to be a public speaker. Inside of her book, she didn’t mention anything about her having the ability to speak, or that she has even spoken. And she had spoken. What I recommended to her, because she was pretty far along, is within the book, rather than telling a bunch of random stories, she told a very specific story how she went to go speak somewhere, what she said impacted the people in the audience, and what happened as a result. A real quick story. Doesn’t need to be very long. Only needs to be a couple of paragraphs. Because she told that story, it illustrated the point that she is a professional speaker. It demonstrates that she speaks, and people get a positive response by her speaking. Guess what a meeting organizer wants when they want you to speak? A good response from the audience, and for the audience to do something with what they learned. They want their speaker to perform to their audience and bring value to their audience.</p> <p>There are certain things we can do with the outline based on the purpose. You asked your question about stories. Depending on the purpose, depending on the structure and outline also depends how much of those stories or what stories even to make sense to include.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Before people melt down and say that’s too much work, let me unpack a couple things. I found it very empowering laying it out in writing. I had cleared a month to write my first book. Those other books were written piecemeal through blog posts or other things I had put together. You have to be careful if you do it randomly so it has continuity. Having a good editor.</p> <p>The thing that occurs to me is a lot of churches and nonprofits don’t consider branding. What you’re talking about is your branding. Who are you? Who is your audience? How do you show up with that audience? What is your brand image?</p> <p>I had a brander publish a book called <em>Twist.</em> Her publicist contacted me and wanted an interview on my business podcast. During the interview, I had her book out. We were talking about putting a twist on your brand. I asked her, “How did you find me?” She said, “Your brand really stood out: the conductor that teaches leadership. That sets you out above everybody else.” If you’re having trouble in your charity raising money, getting volunteers, maybe your brand isn’t clear. If people aren’t coming to your church or synagogue, there may not be a clear brand image on what they can expect or who you’re marketing to. What are they going to experience when they get there? Why should they come? Any of those things, do you help people sort that out? Or do they need to come in with a brand ready? Do you help them decide who they are and how they want to show up in the world?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> That’s what we help each of our authors and clients with. It starts with the structure and outline of the book first. Determining what is included in all of the chapters. We do a lot of research on book titles. The title is an important component of the book because that is the first thing that potential readers or audience members at an event see. When they see you’re the author of X book, that’s a determining factor to represent who you are. If you have a book about purpose, like <em>Purpose-Driven Life</em>, you know that’s what the author is representing and talking about in their book. If you have a book called <em>Family History Secrets,</em> they are all about the secrets of their family. The title of the book does represent the message and what the author is all about. All of those things need to be considered with the end in mind. That’s why I reference quite a bit with our members, because we coach our members through the entire process, from a blank Word document to published book, is we always do what Stephen Covey said in his famous book, <em>Seven Habits of Highly Effective People,</em> is begin with the end in mind. We always look at the end in mind for the purpose and the title.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It sounds awfully hard. I did everything myself. I went and found a printer. Actually, I had pitched my first book. Instead of making a dollar, it cost me a dollar, and I made $13 selling the book. They said clergy wouldn’t buy it, but most people had clergy. I put music notes on my cover. My name was big on the cover. I don’t know if I would redo it. If I feel like I want to do that, I would redo another type of book.</p> <p>All of that stuff. I am looking back and thinking, I wish I’d had somebody like Jeremy Jones guide me through the process. It was difficult. I had somebody proof it who didn’t do a good job. My first printing was full of typos. That is a credibility issue.</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> It is. What we do is we have the entire process outlined in three phases. That’s how we are basically a guide, guiding people through the process so it doesn’t ever feel overwhelming. We have divided our unique publishing process into three primary phases. Phase one is what we call the create or foundation phase. That’s everything related to who the book is for, the purpose of the book for you, getting the book structured and outlined properly in a simple and systematic way, getting the book written in a time-effective manner because we know most of our authors or members are not writing the book three hours a day. They have a certain window of time they can allot outside of their business or profession. We are sensitive to that. We realize it does take an amount of time, but we want it to be as efficient as possible for each of our members. We have some programs in order to do that to help keep the writing efficient, providing editing along the way to provide feedback and insight for the author. That’s all phase one.</p> <p>Then it goes to our team of editors to edit it properly so that the author doesn’t have to deal with any of what you just mentioned. Where we have had people come to us and say, “I tried to do this myself. It’s full of typos. I need to get it done right.” Our model is that traditional publishing house level of quality, but each of our authors retains full rights to their book. Everything I just mentioned is in phase one.</p> <p>Phase two is everything related to what we call packaging it. Packaging it as a product. Professional book cover design. The layout for the paperback book. Amazon and Kindle ebook formatting. Those are the primary three book formats.</p> <p>The third phase is the book release. When we first start our authors and they are thinking about their release, what we do is help guide them. Let’s do phase one first. Then we move to phase two, then phase three. That’s what we do is help facilitate each of those steps along the way so there is never any guesswork.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s important. My clients in launching and growing an organization, people don’t know what to do next. They do things randomly, which is not productive. It sounds like what could be a complicated process, you have streamlined what to do next. Is there a lot of I think what holds up a lot of people is they say I have to carve out time to do all this writing. I’ll do that next year. It’s the I’m going to wait until the perfect time. I will do it when… the famous excuse. Why should people wait? Can they get started? Is there a different way to put words on paper? Can they dictate them and have someone transcribe them? Are there options?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> There definitely are options. When we are in the writing phase, if the author wants to dictate what they have written, we have a unique process around doing that. It all starts with making sure everything is organized properly. If we have a book structure in place, if we have the outline in place, when the author is dictating something, it’s not random. What creates a high expense for editing, the editing process completely multiplies itself and becomes expensive, when the editor has to go in and restructure and rewrite the developmental edit of everything. What we recommend is to do it in bite-sized chunks. Chapter one is typically broken into about three or five subparts. If the author is going to speak their book and transcribe it, they only focus on chapter one, point one. Then chapter one, point two. Then chapter one, point three. They are only talking about this one thing for a short period of time. That can be transcribed and cleaned up because it’s focused, and it doesn’t need this entire reworking. That piece dramatically deceases the time.</p> <p>Another thing is the reason that most people take a lot of time to write their book is because they don’t have everything structured from the beginning. What a lot of our authors do is prior to them working with us, is they get an idea and are excited about turning it into a book. They get committed to it. They are on fire about it. They see the impact. They grab their laptop and start pounding away at the keyboard, writing that story and this story. It’s a bunch of stuff they are typing out. Then they get to the point where they go, “Wait a minute. Should I include this in chapter one or four? Maybe this should be later in the book and this should be earlier.” They find themselves for five hours taking this and moving it here, taking this and moving that there, and rewording it. That process is frustrating and time-consuming.</p> <p>Our unique process we have developed is to help the author develop a proper structure for a book based on industry publishing standards to get it all structured first and then fill in the gaps. The way I like to illustrate this is when you think about a sculptor that is sculpting a big heavy sculpture. If it’s big and heavy, they don’t take a giant glob of clay, plop it there, and start doing fine detail. That’s what people do with writing a book. They don’t write it immediately in fine detail. What a sculptor does is they develop a wire frame of the body of the sculpture, and then they build the mesh. The mesh represents the body of it. Then they put on the clay, which forms the fine detail. If you do the same process when writing a book, first you look at the structure, which makes up all the chapters. Then you look at the chapters, which makes up each of those components for a properly published book. But you get to the writing once that is developed. You are cutting your writing time by a fifth; you will have a fifth of the time it takes to write in my experience.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is always this fear of the unknown. I’ve had people tell me that they have done a series of blog posts and written the book and build excitement as they launch the book. People have read the blog and still buy the book because it’s all in one place instead of strung out into a series of articles. That sounds like a good way to lay it out and think through it and get some real-time response. Do you have a reading on that?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> Sure, we’ve had authors who have done that. We’ve had authors who have done that with writing. If your style is you’re more comfortable with writing, that’s a great way to do that. Get to the exercise of writing and putting out blog posts and getting feedback. That’s a great way to start. We have had another author as well who does it through audio forums, the course of a podcast. We’ll have a chapter he wants to talk about, stories he wants to share, through the course of the podcast verbally. He is talking through the content that he wants to include in the book. That is a great exercise as well to speak out the story. Then you relisten to yourself telling the story, and you can very easily type it out, have it transcribed and cleaned up. Sure. Doing that process is a great exercise because you can get some feedback from people. See the response, the engagement, who leaves a comment. That’s a helpful way to do that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> One thing I notice is you talk about the title. The title makes me stop when I go in the bookstore. All these books. What first catches my attention is the title. Not only the words in the title, but how it’s laid out. Then I pick up the book, and I look for an index and the contents. If it’s just a bunch of boring copy, that’s a downer for me. I respect books that are laid out with some highlights, some images. I had mine with some little breakout highlighted paragraphs with tips throughout. I look for specific things that say to me it will be an interesting journey when I read this book. The titling is wordsmithing, but the rest of it, the cover appearance, the appearance of the title, and the book, what are the factors that encourage people- I’m talking about a physical book now. What are some of the things that make the book attractive so a person would want to pick it up and buy it?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> That’s a great question. The first thing is the book title. The primary title, and the subtitle. I always encourage authors to create a compelling subtitle. The primary title should basically encompass the main thing the book is about. The subtitle should give the readers some additional information to help clarify what the book is all about. That’s the first thing. The image of the book should be simple. Some of the best-selling books are simply all typography. Typography means it’s all text. The title of the book should be clear and easy to read. In most cases, no script. Real scripted fonts are a bad idea because of readability. You want it at first glance to be easily read. Then the cover has pleasing design.</p> <p>The very next thing, you imagine if you are in a bookstore, is you flip the book open. The book should have a well-written book description on the back of the book, which teases or creates curiosity for the potential reader to let them know what’s inside the book. That’s on the physical book. On the Amazon book listing, we recommend to most of our authors who want to include it is you want to tease to the potential reader what’s potentially in a variety of chapters in your book. Topic #1 would be chapter one. You would let them know what they would get out of each chapter in some bullet points. Giving those bullet points to that potential reader is giving them some insight as to what is in the book. The nice thing about Amazon as well is they have the ability if you are getting the book online to do a Look Inside and see the table of contents.</p> <p>What we find in most cases is the first line of defense is the book cover. Then it’s the back, which is the description on the back of the book or in the Amazon book listing description. Then once when they are inside the book, it’s the table of contents. That right there also lets you know you need to have a well-written table of contents that also informs the reader as to what is in the chapter. Those should also be well-written. They are almost like many titles of your book. They are titles of your chapters. That’s what I recommend.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I threw up a cover. This is my fourth book. It was one of the imprints for the United Methodist Publishing House, which has since closed. They did this attractive cover. It was an anthology, so I had famous people on the front and endorsements from the back from two authors of <em>Chicken Soup.</em> We made it to the second print. What was a mistake was the cover doesn’t have the subtitle. It was <em>Stories of Transformation by Leaders.</em> I didn’t realize until after I had released it that it didn’t have it there. That was a liability. To your point, it looked interesting. They had an artist do it, so I went with it. I do find that I look for what it’s really about.</p> <p>The other thing is picking the right categories. With <em>Moving Spirits, Building Lives,</em> it’s #2 in the transformational leadership category. I don’t know how it got there because that was mostly by accident. I tried intentionally to get this one to bestseller. Just wanted to say I did it. I didn’t make a lot of money, especially if you go through a regular publisher, you don’t get paid until you get that advance back. Speak more about the artistry of design and how, this subliminal message and attraction thing that goes on to entice them to grab it. Once they grab it, that’s half the battle, wouldn’t you say?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> I would say so, yeah. Grabbing their attention first, yes. Once you have their attention, then it’s the book description that takes them to the next piece. The title leads to the subtitle leads to the description leads to the table of contents, which leads them into the book. If they feel like the book would bring them value, that’s when they make the decision to buy the book. Nonfiction books, the value in most cases is something they would learn to improve their life. About 80% of the books we publish are nonfiction. The value to the reader for fiction books is entertainment. Getting them outside of their own reality and their mind to imagine this outside world as entertainment. That is the value you bring to them. A lot of fiction authors don’t consider that, but they have to market it that way when they are looking at writing their book description. How can you paint the picture of the value you will bring to this reader, which is capturing their mind and imagination?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m positioning a book as part of the overall marketing program for a nonprofit. Is that okay? It’s a marketing tool. There are lots of reasons, but for the purposes of where I’m going with this. It’s part of the awareness. It doesn’t differ for an entrepreneur running a business. Like leadership, the principles are the same.</p> <p>I’m a speaker, too. Speaking itself is not a sustainable revenue source. You get paid, and it’s gone. What we want to do is have back of the room material. You want to have books, courses, and other things you can offer people, which is a secondary flow of revenue. A lot of nonprofits have a lot of resources, their own and those of others who provide value in the space they are operating. Talk a minute about how a 501(c)3 can use a book to monetize, to bring in revenue.</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> That is a great question. To answer your question, the way we have seen this work best, because of our model, we have a traditional publishing house level of quality. The author retains full rights, and they earn 100% of the royalties, minus the printing cost of the book. In that situation, where we’ve had two paths here, number one is the expert or influencer would write the book from their perspective, teaching something, sharing a message, and the nonprofit is mentioned within the book. The sale of the books would go to raise funds for a 501(c)3. You could sell a bundle of books to a company. When they buy books, the profit of books goes to the nonprofit. That is one way.</p> <p>Another way we have seen several of our authors do is the author runs a business themselves, or they are a speaker. But the nonprofit is the sponsor of the book. The nonprofit is mentioned on the back of the book. A portion of the proceeds go from the sale of the books toward the nonprofit. When the author is promoting the book, they can say, “A portion of the proceeds are going toward this nonprofit.” People like to contribute to causes or businesses that contribute to causes. There is a lot of joint venture opportunities that could come from that as well. The 501(c)3 could have donor lists. A list of all people who have donated. They could send a message to the donors saying, “We have partnered with this author. The proceeds are going back to our nonprofit. We think our audience would love this book. If you buy this book, proceeds go.” There are different types of things you could do within the marketing to split the proceeds or all of the proceeds because the author gets paid to speak or a back-end to the book where they are not so concerned about the profits of the book. This can be good. But they get paid on coaching clients, business services, things like that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I have also said there are purpose books that teach people about particular things, how to get out of poverty, topics like that that explain to constituents. I live in Lynchburg, Virginia, where we have a high poverty rate. There are lots of initiatives about poverty. Getting them food, housing, and clothing does not raise them out of poverty. It’s the mindset. The mindset takes us to a very different place. My material is helping people reframe their thinking. I spend a lot of time reframing the thinking for nonprofit leaders. I have seen occasions where a sponsor buys the back page. It’s a helpful book for a certain segment or purpose. They give it away. But it has the sponsor message. They will buy 10,000 books. The company itself uses it for a marketing tool, and there is a mass distribution. Is that a scenario you see much? Does it really work?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> To a degree. I would say the most important thing is the sponsor, or the one representing, is in complete alignment with the audience or the reader and the values of the company. With your example, we publish quite a few books for health and wellness professionals or health coaches. I would never recommend they have a big soda company for obvious reasons because they can’t condone drinking soda.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Different brands.</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> And the purpose of the product as well. Coca-Cola, Dr. Pepper, they are not bad companies. It’s just a drink. But it’s not ever recommended by that particular person. If a health and fitness trainer wrote a book and they wanted to have a dietary supplement be a sponsor, perfect alignment. The supplement provider could email or promote or Facebook ads, whatever they choose to do, to promote the book, and it also tells them in the book how to take the supplement, which the trainer recommends. There is consistency happening there. I always recommend looking at, in most cases, there is, there is some sort of consistency you could create, and there is a company out there that would see that as alignment for their brand.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s the principle I was trying to illuminate there. If their brand is compatible with your brand, and there is value for both brands.</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> I’d say so.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s not magical finding someone who wants to do that.</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> On that note, I also do recommend to not make obvious blatant advertisements on the book. When someone normally gets a book, you wouldn’t see a blatant advertisement. But marketing is something that we’re very focused on with the book. We help with the launch. We are focused on joint ventures. There are easily things you can do to give the reader more value and subtly promote the other company. Using the example of the fitness trainer. Within the book, the fitness trainer talks about using this particular protein supplement. The company is mentioned several times. The author could mention a guide that talks about 50 smoothie recipes to use this supplement with, and they download this guide with these recipes. That company is mentioned, and there is a link you can go to to order this supplement. There are things you can do to not make it an advertisement, but an added value for the reader.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s only fair. You have several books. <em>Book Publishing on Demand, Power Authority,</em> and <em>Lead Flow.</em> Those are on Amazon?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> Yeah.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You can also find them on JonesMediaPublishing.com. Then you have a podcast. AskJeremyJones.com/Podcast. What kind of things do you talk about on your podcast?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> The podcast is a lot of fun. We just published our 169th episode. The show is called <em>Ideas and Impact.</em> We interview authors, speakers, and subject matter experts about three big ideas you feel could be really impactful for people if they applied them into their lives, either on the personal side or on the business side. We have interviewed people about relationships, marriage, parenting on the personal side. On the wealth side of things, business growth, marketing, sales, things like that. And on the health side, we have talked about health and fitness, weight loss, all things. It’s similar to like a TED Talk. You go there to listen for something insightful that you can immediately put into action with your life. It’s been a lot of fun.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I am sorry I didn’t know about your podcast, but I do now. Is there anybody on the horizon that will be exciting?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> John Nemo is on the line-up. He is a LinkedIn expert. Teaches people how to optimize their LinkedIn profile. We mention John David Mann, who is the co-author of <em>The Go-Giver</em> and also Bob Berg, who co-authored it. We interviewed Ivan Meisner from BNI, the largest business organization in the world. That was an incredible interview as well. We’ve had a few high-level celebrity-type people. We have Hugh up and coming. That’s a given, Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I have been having back problems, but I had a shot today, so I’m a new man. Which new man I am. I am eager to find out more. I am going to listen to it.</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> You can get all the episodes at AskJeremyJones.com.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Jeremy Jones, you are a real wealth of information. We had an author last week, Scott S. Smith, who has written 1,800 leadership articles for <em>Investors Business Daily</em> of all places. Leaders want to know about leaders. It was a powerful interview. I look forward to sharing some things with your audience. This has been helpful. I am reliving my journey of writing a book. I will say to people I spent 40 years in church music ministry. One time, I did a pivot and said, “I am a transformational leader.” I repositioned myself. I went from having my back to the audience as a conductor to facing the audience as a speaker. That was a physical 180-degree transformation. The book was a way for me to be clear on my message. Once I started writing, I found out I knew a whole lot of stuff that was valuable to people. We are in the third printing. To keep the price down, I bought a whole bunch. You can have a print book, but you can do it on demand. You can print a few. You can print a bunch. What are some of the options when you publish a book?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> We recommend to start with the print on demand option to get the process going until the author has enough established where they can hold some books on hand, which is a good idea to have some on hand. In most cases, because we run a printing and distribution facility, we can print on demand pretty quickly for our authors. We have one author just recently about a week and a half ago did an event with 200 people. She let us know, “Hey, I am doing an event with 200 people. I am going to need 200 books at this address.” We print them, package them up, ship them to her event. Within about five business days, they can be printed. We can fulfill and do that on demand. For higher quantities of books, make sure there is a good reason to have a higher quantity. You can get some price breaks. We can do that as well. Typically, what we do is start with the paperback. That’s established. The author knows their printing pricing. We can work with that as well. Then we have the e-book version. There is no hard cost there. Once we finalize the paperback and do the release, a few of our authors like to have a hardback version. We do have printing facility capabilities to do that version with a dust jacket, which looks really nice. The printing cost is a little bit higher, but we have worked it out where we can do it on fairly low quantities. We can do a couple hundred books for a reasonable cost.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Good to know. There is the paperback, the hardback, the e-book, and the Kindle book. What about audiobooks? Are those valuable?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> Those are valuable. We provide some training and resources of how to get that up and going. We don’t provide the services to do that. There is three options. Some of the authors want to speak the book themselves, which we usually recommend as the best option. But they have to have capability to go to a studio, record the audios, and have it cut properly for Amazon ACX, which is Audible’s program for audiobooks. The second option is you can hire a voice actor and pay them up front. You still retain your side of the rights, and you get the royalties from Amazon directly. The third option is you can hire a voice recording artist and split the royalties with them. That’s all built into there. You can choose the royalty option you want. We provide some resources. If the author wants to do an audiobook, we guide them on what is the best option and how it works.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That was the audiobook from Barefoot Winery. They were our guest a few weeks ago. They had a whole drama team that did the book. It was stunning. They didn’t spare any cost. They sold the winery. They are marketing experts who accidentally got into the winery business. I never thought about getting a drama team to produce the book. It was a story. That was powerful. They helped nonprofits raise money through their activity with the winery. The book was out there to say this is an idea for you. It’s been a bestseller for quite a while.</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> I like that. It makes sense.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A lot of people do creative things. Books are not dead. I was talking to somebody the other day about how good leaders read. People at the top of their game read. There is no variance to that. They read the same books again over time and mark it with a different color marker because you will see different things when you go back. On my bookshelf, I have a lot of Kindle books, too. Somebody was telling me a physical book, you absorb better. Do you have an opinion on that, whether physical books are better than e-books?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> I am of the view that everybody learns differently. When some people learn something new or when they relax, they like to look at the words on a physical paper. I like to do that, too. I like to look and jot notes in the margins or write things down as I’m going. Total focus. If I have a book I want to totally focus on, I will get a paperback. I find that’s the case with most people. When you just want to take a book with you, I have a Kindle app as well on all my devices, I like to have e-books as well to have books I can reference. E-books are great for that, to have a library of books you can carry around with you everywhere. Audiobooks are popular right now. We are starting to get more involved with that, with our clients. That’s a great medium for when people are busy. A lot of business owners listen to audiobooks now. When you’re driving and commuting places, you can listen to audiobooks. You can’t read while you’re driving until we all have self-driving Teslas, which I don’t know how many years that’s out. For right now, we’re not reading while we’re driving, so audiobooks are a great option for that. I think it depends on how you consume information. I agree with you. I don’t think paperbacks, even though we have all these capabilities in different mediums, I really don’t think that they’re going anywhere.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I agree. *Sponsor message from Wordsprint* Jeremy Jones, what do you want to leave people with?</p> <p><strong>Jeremy:</strong> For anyone watching or listening, if you have had a dream and a desire to write a book, we have many people say, “I just wanted to write something, to inspire people, to share a message with people.” A lot of people think that contacting a publisher too early in the process. I need to get further along. I need to write out my ideas. I need to get to some point before I explore that with anyone. I think the earlier, the better. That’s what we’re here for. On the foundational process, of making sure all the things work together to meet your objectives for a book. Some people, I say, “Hey, I think this is a great idea for a book, but not now. With where you’re at and what you’re doing, wait until you have this set up or this timing is better.” A lot of it is timing. That’s what we do. We do a free book strategy session with anyone who would like to explore the idea of a book, how it can integrate with your organization, how that could work. We’d be happy to explore that. Also, I run a free Facebook group for the podcast called Ideas and Impact. If you go to AskJeremyJones.com, there is a Facebook icon at the top. Click on that, and you can join our free group. I am happy to answer any questions you have or explore the idea with you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Jeremy Jones, this has been a delight. I have published lots of books, but I have learned a lot of new stuff today.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Traits and Habits of Great Leaders w/Scott S Smith</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/traits-and-habits-of-great-leaders-wscott-s-smith</link>
      <description>Traits and Habits of Great Leaders:
 How the best leaders throughout history and across industries differ from the ordinary Interview with Scott S. Smith Scott Smith has had 1,800 articles and interviews published in 190 media, including Investor’s Business Daily, Entrepreneur, Success, Chief Executive, American Airlines’ American Way, United Airlines’ Hemispheres, and Los Angeles Magazine. His focus has been on the practices that distinguish great leaders from the rest and he has interviewed dozens of top CEOs, including Bill Gates, Meg Whitman, Mark Cuban, Larry Ellison, Howard Schultz, Lee Iacocca, Marilyn Carlson Nelson of the Carlson Companies, Whole Foods founder John Mackey, and Richard Branson. He has also talked with a wide variety of other high-achievers, including Stan Lee, Kathy Ireland, Bob Newhart, Dean Koontz, Gen. Barry McCaffrey, civil rights pioneer James Meredith, Kirk Douglas, Shark Tank’s Barbara Corcoran, former president of Mexico Vicente Fox, and leadership expert Frances Hesselbein. Based on his own experience as the manager of a dozen small companies and wide reading in history, he wrote Extraordinary People: Real Life Lessons on What It Takes to Achieve Success, which included in-depth analysis of the careers of people like Catherine the Great, Ray Charles Anne Rice, Jim Henson, and Simon Bolivar.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 23 Feb 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/75445d42-b329-11eb-9f0f-5f47b7e80c54/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Traits and Habits of Great Leaders: How the best leaders throughout history and across industries differ from the ordinary Interview with Scott S. Smith Scott Smith has had 1,800 articles and interviews published in 190 media, including Investor’s...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Traits and Habits of Great Leaders:
 How the best leaders throughout history and across industries differ from the ordinary Interview with Scott S. Smith Scott Smith has had 1,800 articles and interviews published in 190 media, including Investor’s Business Daily, Entrepreneur, Success, Chief Executive, American Airlines’ American Way, United Airlines’ Hemispheres, and Los Angeles Magazine. His focus has been on the practices that distinguish great leaders from the rest and he has interviewed dozens of top CEOs, including Bill Gates, Meg Whitman, Mark Cuban, Larry Ellison, Howard Schultz, Lee Iacocca, Marilyn Carlson Nelson of the Carlson Companies, Whole Foods founder John Mackey, and Richard Branson. He has also talked with a wide variety of other high-achievers, including Stan Lee, Kathy Ireland, Bob Newhart, Dean Koontz, Gen. Barry McCaffrey, civil rights pioneer James Meredith, Kirk Douglas, Shark Tank’s Barbara Corcoran, former president of Mexico Vicente Fox, and leadership expert Frances Hesselbein. Based on his own experience as the manager of a dozen small companies and wide reading in history, he wrote Extraordinary People: Real Life Lessons on What It Takes to Achieve Success, which included in-depth analysis of the careers of people like Catherine the Great, Ray Charles Anne Rice, Jim Henson, and Simon Bolivar.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Traits and Habits of Great Leaders:<br></strong></h1> <strong>How the best leaders throughout history and across industries differ from the ordinary<br> Interview with Scott S. Smith</strong> <p><strong>Scott Smith</strong> has had 1,800 articles and interviews published in 190 media, including Investor’s Business Daily, Entrepreneur, Success, Chief Executive, American Airlines’ American Way, United Airlines’ Hemispheres, and Los Angeles Magazine. His focus has been on the practices that distinguish great leaders from the rest and he has interviewed dozens of top CEOs, including Bill Gates, Meg Whitman, Mark Cuban, Larry Ellison, Howard Schultz, Lee Iacocca, Marilyn Carlson Nelson of the Carlson Companies, Whole Foods founder John Mackey, and Richard Branson. He has also talked with a wide variety of other high-achievers, including Stan Lee, Kathy Ireland, Bob Newhart, Dean Koontz, Gen. Barry McCaffrey, civil rights pioneer James Meredith, Kirk Douglas, Shark Tank’s Barbara Corcoran, former president of Mexico Vicente Fox, and leadership expert Frances Hesselbein. Based on his own experience as the manager of a dozen small companies and wide reading in history, he wrote Extraordinary People: Real Life Lessons on What It Takes to Achieve Success, which included in-depth analysis of the careers of people like Catherine the Great, Ray Charles Anne Rice, Jim Henson, and Simon Bolivar.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3647</itunes:duration>
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      <title>How to Use Support for Non-Profits to Build a Commercial Brand</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-to-use-support-for-non-profits-to-build-a-commercial-brand</link>
      <description>How to Use Support for Non-Profits to Build a Commercial Brand
 The Story of Barefoot Wine with Founders Bonnie Harvey and Michael Houlihan Michael Houlihan and Bonnie Harvey are the founders of Barefoot, America’s #1 wine brand, and co-authors of the New York Times bestseller, The Barefoot Spirit. They started with virtually no money or wine industry experience and pioneered ‘Worthy Cause Marketing’.
 They now share their innovative approach to businesses as consultants, authors, workshop leaders, speakers, and are sought-after thought leaders in entrepreneurship in both print and broadcast media. They co-author weekly blogs at www.thebarefootspirit.com &amp; www.consumerbrandbuilders.com
 Audio Book 
 www.barefootaudiobook.com
 www.thebarefootspirit.com/freechapter  (this is a free chapter for your listeners)
  
  
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 16 Feb 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/75621f3a-b329-11eb-9f0f-730c437c045d/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Story of Barefoot Wine with Founders Bonnie Harvey and Michael Houlihan</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How to Use Support for Non-Profits to Build a Commercial Brand
 The Story of Barefoot Wine with Founders Bonnie Harvey and Michael Houlihan Michael Houlihan and Bonnie Harvey are the founders of Barefoot, America’s #1 wine brand, and co-authors of the New York Times bestseller, The Barefoot Spirit. They started with virtually no money or wine industry experience and pioneered ‘Worthy Cause Marketing’.
 They now share their innovative approach to businesses as consultants, authors, workshop leaders, speakers, and are sought-after thought leaders in entrepreneurship in both print and broadcast media. They co-author weekly blogs at www.thebarefootspirit.com &amp; www.consumerbrandbuilders.com
 Audio Book 
 www.barefootaudiobook.com
 www.thebarefootspirit.com/freechapter  (this is a free chapter for your listeners)
  
  
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>How to Use Support for Non-Profits to Build a Commercial Brand</strong></h1> <strong>The Story of </strong>Barefoot Wine with Founders Bonnie Harvey and Michael Houlihan <p>Michael Houlihan and Bonnie Harvey are the founders of Barefoot, America’s #1 wine brand, and co-authors of the New York Times bestseller, The Barefoot Spirit. They started with virtually no money or wine industry experience and pioneered ‘Worthy Cause Marketing’.</p> <p>They now share their innovative approach to businesses as consultants, authors, workshop leaders, speakers, and are sought-after thought leaders in entrepreneurship in both print and broadcast media. They co-author weekly blogs at <a href="https://thebarefootspirit.com/">www.thebarefootspirit.com</a> &amp; <a href="https://consumerbrandbuilders.com/">www.consumerbrandbuilders.com</a></p> <p>Audio Book </p> <p><a href="http://www.barefootaudiobook.com/">www.barefootaudiobook.com</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.thebarefootspirit.com/freechapter">www.thebarefootspirit.com/freechapter</a>  (this is a free chapter for your listeners)</p> <p> </p> <p> </p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3555</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange Reviews of 2019</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-reviews-of-2019</link>
      <description>Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange Part 1 2020
 Hugh Ballou d Russell Dennis, co-hosts of The Nonprofit Exchange provide highlights from interviews over the past few months.
 Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership.
  
  
 Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past six months of episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 09 Feb 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/757adeee-b329-11eb-9f0f-c7bd341787d5/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh &amp; Russ look at highlights of past sessions</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange Part 1 2020
 Hugh Ballou d Russell Dennis, co-hosts of The Nonprofit Exchange provide highlights from interviews over the past few months.
 Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership.
  
  
 Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past six months of episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange<br> Part 1 2020</strong></h1> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou</strong> d <strong>Russell Dennis</strong>, co-hosts of The Nonprofit Exchange provide highlights from interviews over the past few months.</p> <p>Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership.</p> <p> </p> <p> </p> <p>Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past six months of episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Maxing Out the Mission with Robert Day</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/maxing-out-the-mission-with-robert-day</link>
      <description>Maxing Out the Mission: Leading a Cause Based Local Charity with Robert Day
 Robert Day's childhood of poverty and abuse included more than 35 homes before his unlikely graduation from high school. Today, through God’s grace, and with two Master’s Degrees in hand, Robert’s life work is dedicated to keeping children safe and families strong. Robert’s inspiring testimony, together with his unique and timely perspective, has made him a sought-after speaker for conferences, churches, civic audiences, and beyond.
 Robert is the author of two books, Worst of Mothers…Best of Moms, and Desperately Healed… My Journey to Wholeness. These tell his story of a tumultuous childhood, and the arduous process of healing as an adult. Born to a teenage mother, who was herself a ward of the state, Robert survived abject poverty, neglect, and abuse; but in the end, this is a story of God’s infinite grace and mercy, and how He uses our pasts for His purpose.
 In addition to his testimony, Robert loves to speak on issues of Child Welfare (particularly the history of the orphanage movement), Overcoming Poverty, and the process of Social and Organizational Change.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/758c08ea-b329-11eb-9f0f-7ff116e055fd/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leading a Cause Based Local Charity</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Maxing Out the Mission: Leading a Cause Based Local Charity with Robert Day
 Robert Day's childhood of poverty and abuse included more than 35 homes before his unlikely graduation from high school. Today, through God’s grace, and with two Master’s Degrees in hand, Robert’s life work is dedicated to keeping children safe and families strong. Robert’s inspiring testimony, together with his unique and timely perspective, has made him a sought-after speaker for conferences, churches, civic audiences, and beyond.
 Robert is the author of two books, Worst of Mothers…Best of Moms, and Desperately Healed… My Journey to Wholeness. These tell his story of a tumultuous childhood, and the arduous process of healing as an adult. Born to a teenage mother, who was herself a ward of the state, Robert survived abject poverty, neglect, and abuse; but in the end, this is a story of God’s infinite grace and mercy, and how He uses our pasts for His purpose.
 In addition to his testimony, Robert loves to speak on issues of Child Welfare (particularly the history of the orphanage movement), Overcoming Poverty, and the process of Social and Organizational Change.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Maxing Out the Mission:<br> Leading a Cause Based Local Charity with Robert Day</strong></h1> <p><strong>Robert Day</strong>'s childhood of poverty and abuse included more than 35 homes before his unlikely graduation from high school. Today, through God’s grace, and with two Master’s Degrees in hand, Robert’s life work is dedicated to keeping children safe and families strong. Robert’s inspiring testimony, together with his unique and timely perspective, has made him a sought-after speaker for conferences, churches, civic audiences, and beyond.</p> <p>Robert is the author of two books, <em>Worst of Mothers…Best of Moms</em>, and <em>Desperately Healed… My Journey to Wholeness</em>. These tell his story of a tumultuous childhood, and the arduous process of healing as an adult. Born to a teenage mother, who was herself a ward of the state, Robert survived abject poverty, neglect, and abuse; but in the end, this is a story of God’s infinite grace and mercy, and how He uses our pasts for His purpose.</p> <p>In addition to his testimony, Robert loves to speak on issues of Child Welfare (particularly the history of the orphanage movement), Overcoming Poverty, and the process of Social and Organizational Change.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3483</itunes:duration>
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      <title>How to Raise Major Gifts for Annual and Capital Campaigns w/Amy Eisenstein</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-to-raise-major-gifts-for-annual-and-capital-campaigns-wamy-eisenstein</link>
      <description>How to Raise Major Gifts for Annual and Capital Campaigns w/Amy Eisenstein
 Amy Eisenstein, ACFRE is the CEO and Co-Founder of the Capital Campaign Toolkit. She is also a consultant, speaker, author, and trainer with Amy Eisenstein, LLC. Her published books include: Major Gift Fundraising for Small Shops, and 50 A$ks in 50 Weeks. Amy served as president of the AFP-NJ Chapter in 2014 and 2015 and received the AFP New Jersey Consultant of the Year award in 2019. She became a CFRE in 2004 and received the ACFRE in 2013. She blogs at www.amyeisenstein.com and www.capitalcampaigntoolkit.com.
 All donors do not give equal amounts of money. Focusing on top donors will enable you to raise more money efficiently and effectively. In order to raise more money every year, leverage tools and techniques used in capital campaigns to raise major gifts for your annual fund.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 26 Jan 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/75a76720-b329-11eb-9f0f-d346b02cdb6d/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>How to Raise Major Gifts for Annual and Capital Campaigns w/Amy Eisenstein Amy Eisenstein, ACFRE is the CEO and Co-Founder of the Capital Campaign Toolkit. She is also a consultant, speaker, author, and trainer with Amy Eisenstein, LLC. Her published...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How to Raise Major Gifts for Annual and Capital Campaigns w/Amy Eisenstein
 Amy Eisenstein, ACFRE is the CEO and Co-Founder of the Capital Campaign Toolkit. She is also a consultant, speaker, author, and trainer with Amy Eisenstein, LLC. Her published books include: Major Gift Fundraising for Small Shops, and 50 A$ks in 50 Weeks. Amy served as president of the AFP-NJ Chapter in 2014 and 2015 and received the AFP New Jersey Consultant of the Year award in 2019. She became a CFRE in 2004 and received the ACFRE in 2013. She blogs at www.amyeisenstein.com and www.capitalcampaigntoolkit.com.
 All donors do not give equal amounts of money. Focusing on top donors will enable you to raise more money efficiently and effectively. In order to raise more money every year, leverage tools and techniques used in capital campaigns to raise major gifts for your annual fund.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>How to Raise Major Gifts for Annual and Capital Campaigns w/Amy Eisenstein</strong></h1> <p><strong>Amy Eisenstein</strong>, ACFRE is the CEO and Co-Founder of the Capital Campaign Toolkit. She is also a consultant, speaker, author, and trainer with Amy Eisenstein, LLC. Her published books include: Major Gift Fundraising for Small Shops, and 50 A$ks in 50 Weeks. Amy served as president of the AFP-NJ Chapter in 2014 and 2015 and received the AFP New Jersey Consultant of the Year award in 2019. She became a CFRE in 2004 and received the ACFRE in 2013. She blogs at <a href="http://www.amyeisenstein.com/">www.amyeisenstein.com</a> and <a href="http://www.capitalcampaigntoolkit.com/">www.capitalcampaigntoolkit.com</a>.</p> <p>All donors do not give equal amounts of money. Focusing on top donors will enable you to raise more money efficiently and effectively. In order to raise more money every year, leverage tools and techniques used in capital campaigns to raise major gifts for your annual fund.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3492</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Nonprofits Partnering With the Community w/Bishop Kirkland</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofits-partnering-with-the-community-wbishop-kirkland</link>
      <description>Nonprofits Partnering With the Community Interview with Bishop Ebony Kirkland
 Despite her success in the business arena, Dr. Ebony Kirkland felt drawn into the Ministry. She often cited a need to serve God in a more profound way, sharing her talents and expertise in expanding and working on behalf of “The Kingdom”. In 2003, she became founder and senior pastor of the Living God Ministries Worldwide. In the second year of her ministry she expanded an international ministry which she was able to adopt and minister to churches in Costa Rica, Panama, Guatemala, Egypt and Africa. Her innate bilingual language ability affords her to reach out and minister to Spanish communities spreading the gospel. She also uses her business skills to motivate and inspire individuals to maximize their God given talent and to work on building God’s Kingdom on Earth. Dr. Kirkland most recently has collaborated with other ministers of faith to form the Universal Clergy Coalition (UNCC) in which she serves as the current Vice President. The mission of UNCC is to collaborate and to bring forth peace and understanding among the various interfaith denominations. In addition, Bishop Kirkland has formed a Worldwide Association of Small Churches. The main goal of the association is to provide mentorship and training for small church pastors. In addition Dr. Kirkland has formed the Christian Chamber of Commerce, the Health Chamber of Commerce and Youth Chamber of Commerce. She was consecrated into the office of the Bishop by the College of Bishop of the Council of International Charismatic Bishops (CICB) to serve as the Presiding Bishop of the Church of the Living God Ministries Worldwide in November of 2009.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 19 Jan 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/75b8e572-b329-11eb-9f0f-37b6d5da2dbc/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Nonprofits Partnering With the Community Interview with Bishop Ebony Kirkland Despite her success in the business arena, Dr. Ebony Kirkland felt drawn into the Ministry. She often cited a need to serve God in a more profound way, sharing her talents...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Nonprofits Partnering With the Community Interview with Bishop Ebony Kirkland
 Despite her success in the business arena, Dr. Ebony Kirkland felt drawn into the Ministry. She often cited a need to serve God in a more profound way, sharing her talents and expertise in expanding and working on behalf of “The Kingdom”. In 2003, she became founder and senior pastor of the Living God Ministries Worldwide. In the second year of her ministry she expanded an international ministry which she was able to adopt and minister to churches in Costa Rica, Panama, Guatemala, Egypt and Africa. Her innate bilingual language ability affords her to reach out and minister to Spanish communities spreading the gospel. She also uses her business skills to motivate and inspire individuals to maximize their God given talent and to work on building God’s Kingdom on Earth. Dr. Kirkland most recently has collaborated with other ministers of faith to form the Universal Clergy Coalition (UNCC) in which she serves as the current Vice President. The mission of UNCC is to collaborate and to bring forth peace and understanding among the various interfaith denominations. In addition, Bishop Kirkland has formed a Worldwide Association of Small Churches. The main goal of the association is to provide mentorship and training for small church pastors. In addition Dr. Kirkland has formed the Christian Chamber of Commerce, the Health Chamber of Commerce and Youth Chamber of Commerce. She was consecrated into the office of the Bishop by the College of Bishop of the Council of International Charismatic Bishops (CICB) to serve as the Presiding Bishop of the Church of the Living God Ministries Worldwide in November of 2009.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>Nonprofits Partnering With the Community Interview with Bishop Ebony Kirkland</h1> <p>Despite her success in the business arena, Dr. Ebony Kirkland felt drawn into the Ministry. She often cited a need to serve God in a more profound way, sharing her talents and expertise in expanding and working on behalf of “The Kingdom”. In 2003, she became founder and senior pastor of the Living God Ministries Worldwide. In the second year of her ministry she expanded an international ministry which she was able to adopt and minister to churches in Costa Rica, Panama, Guatemala, Egypt and Africa. Her innate bilingual language ability affords her to reach out and minister to Spanish communities spreading the gospel. She also uses her business skills to motivate and inspire individuals to maximize their God given talent and to work on building God’s Kingdom on Earth. Dr. Kirkland most recently has collaborated with other ministers of faith to form the Universal Clergy Coalition (UNCC) in which she serves as the current Vice President. The mission of UNCC is to collaborate and to bring forth peace and understanding among the various interfaith denominations. In addition, Bishop Kirkland has formed a Worldwide Association of Small Churches. The main goal of the association is to provide mentorship and training for small church pastors. In addition Dr. Kirkland has formed the Christian Chamber of Commerce, the Health Chamber of Commerce and Youth Chamber of Commerce. She was consecrated into the office of the Bishop by the College of Bishop of the Council of International Charismatic Bishops (CICB) to serve as the Presiding Bishop of the Church of the Living God Ministries Worldwide in November of 2009.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Making Your Organization Attractive for Cause Marketing Collaborations</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/making-your-organization-attractive-for-cause-marketing-collaborations</link>
      <description>Making Your Organization Attractive for Cause Marketing Collaborations
 Sheryl Green is a writer, speaker, and animal rescuer. She is the author of four books including her most recent, Do Good to Do Better: The Small Business Guide to Growing your Business by Helping Nonprofits. Sheryl also serves as the Director of Communications and Cuddling for Hearts Alive Village Animal Rescue in Las Vegas.
 There's a way to position yourself so that businesses want to work with you and help you raise money.
  
  
 Read the Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Happy first of the year! It’s 2020 when we’re recording this. Russell is in Denver. I’m in central western Virginia, the commonwealth of Virginia. Sheryl is in beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada. Sheryl, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell people a little about what you’re doing and why you’re doing it.
 Sheryl Green: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited. The why I’m doing it I think is the most important to start with. In 2008, I went through a very difficult divorce and moved out to Las Vegas for a fresh start. Went through horrible divorce, horrible bankruptcy. Did not know anybody here besides my parents. Ended up in a pretty serious depression. At that point, my step-mom dragged me off the bathroom floor, where I was curled up hysterically crying, and she said, “Go do something for someone else.” And it was the best personal advice, and it turned out to be the best business advice that I’d ever gotten.
 I found my way to animal rescue. I started out doing small adoption events, and eventually I worked my way up to creating 5,000-person events. I put on a festival and started as the director of communications (and cuddling) for Hearts Alive Village Las Vegas. Even though this has been a volunteer role pretty much the entire time, and I’ve been on the board, but it started to dawn on me just how difficult the nonprofit world is. Anybody that has spent any time in there, you have spent half of your life with your hand out, begging for money and begging for help. It took a while to put that together. I started my own business with speaking and writing and things like that and realized that if a nonprofit could actually connect with a business, and even more importantly in my world, a small nonprofit could connect with a small business, we could make some real differences in our communities. That is what got me on this path.
 Hugh: Whoa. What a novel concept. I have worked with nonprofit leaders for 32 years. Russell has a whole history in various forms of working in nonprofits. It spans more years than that. I am in the saddle as the president of the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra. Doing stuff inside of an organization is different. I developed my methodology working inside of organizations. I have been working outside for so many years. It’s good to go back inside and see both sides of this. I’m pleased that all the systems we created actually work. There is a funny relationship that organizations have with businesses. Businesses don’t understand basically why it’s good for business to be active and to support nonprofits. When you first have a conversation, do you start with a nonprofit or a business?
 Sheryl: It depends on the situation. I was going to say that I start with the nonprofit, but you know what? Now I am starting to work closely with small businesses, showing them, going beyond the obvious “Yes, you should help, and we should change the world together,” going beyond that and showing them the benefits to their business of helping, getting in front of a new audience, attracting those who believe in the same things as you and really branding yourself as someone who cares about more than just money.
 Hugh: Triple bottom line.
 Sheryl: Yes.
 Hugh: People, the planet, and the profit.
 Sheryl: I like that.
 Hugh: It is. There is books behind you. Are any of those books created by you?
 Sheryl: Those books are all by me. I’ve been writing. I started out with fiction back in 2009. I have a degree in forensic psychology. I never actually got to hunt down serial killers, which is what I wanted to do. Instead, I decided to write about them. Those books have not yet seen the light of day, but they will.
 I moved into writing nonfiction probably about four years ago now. And started out with a personal development book about my own experiences. Then moved onto how can I help businesses and nonprofits improve their organizations.
 Hugh: Wow. I’m sure we can find those on Amazon. I will put them on the interview. SherylGreenSpeaks.com is your main website. I believe it’s on the page we set up for this interview.
 A little more. How does the book connect you in the world? Does the book have a functional reason? Is it just you telling your story?
 Sheryl: That’s a longer story. My journey in speaking has been circuitous. I started out not knowing what I was an expert in because in the speaking world, you’re not a speaker, you’re an expert who speaks. I realized after my divorce and the hard knocks I’ve taken that I was really good at getting kicked and getting back up stronger and being that resilient, learning how to teach resilience. I started out on that path. It took a little while to realize that wasn’t necessarily where my heart was. I moved into realizing I’d been writing content for businesses and nonprofits for a couple of years at that point, and I realized that I’m a storyteller. It started out when I wrote fiction and moved onto when I was actually writing for businesses. I realized I could teach businesses and nonprofits how to communicate what they do and how to share that story so that they can really better serve their clients and donors.
 One of the stories I wish I could tell you exactly where I came across the term “cause marketing.” I don’t remember. I suspect there were angels in a bright light. When I realized that there was actually something in place for nonprofits and businesses to work together, that became one of the stories that I recommend we tell. You’ve got your why story, which most people talk about their origin. You have success stories, and that you’re actually doing what you say you do. The cause marketing story goes beyond that for me. I like to call it selling warm fuzzies instead of widgets because for the business, it becomes less about what they actually do and what they sell and more about who they are and what they stand for. It evolved from there.
 I started studying cause marketing and learned more about it. I realized it could make a huge impact in how nonprofits and businesses operate and in the cesspool of disaster that our country is in. I’m sorry. That wasn’t positive, was it?
 Hugh: It’s realistic. You didn’t blame anybody.
 Sheryl: No, no. It’s just a mess. We won’t go into that.
 Hugh: Fascinated by going back to ancient stuff. Going back to the Bible, in Ecclesiastes, he says, “There is nothing new under the sun.” Back when they wrote those books, they are dealing with the same kind of stuff we have right now. It seems like in all these years, we could have progressed civilization.
 Sheryl: Just a lot less social media back then, so it wasn’t as painful.
 Hugh: People had a way of getting things out. There are several points of connection that come to my mind. One of our guests gave us a different word, for-profit and for-purpose. Nonprofit is a dumb word because you have to make a profit, but it does identify the segment. The business can be a donor to the nonprofit, which is philanthropy. The business can be a sponsor, which is their marketing money. The business can provide in-kind support. It could be printing, volunteers. People in the company might want to be of service. If it’s a food bank or a free clinic, they could go down and serve on a regular occasion. We have donors, sponsors, in-kind contributions. Those are very different. And then there’s making space available. Sometimes companies have meeting rooms or event spaces and planning and implementing skills. There are those kinds of connections. Are there others? Do you want to talk about those and how they benefit both sides?
 Sheryl: While I use the term “cause marketing,” I want to give this brief statement that it’s not just cause marketing. That term has been pigeonholed for the buy one/get one, the pin-ups in stores, where it’s transaction-based. While that is wonderful and definitely one of the approaches that you can take, I think there is a lot more that we can do, from the small business standpoint, in terms of standing for a cause. So that it’s not just if you buy this, I will donate, which is great, and you should do it. But there is also spreading awareness, sharing your audience with that nonprofit. Creating awareness around the cause. A lot of people don’t even know what issues are out there. I don’t know how this is even the case, but I was at a fundraising workshop a few months ago, and she said that some people don’t donate because they’re not asked.
 Hugh: That’s right.
 Sheryl: They’re clearly not on my Facebook page because I am asking for donations all the time for the rescue. Creating that collaboration, and I will not say partnership, gives you the ability to bring your customers into that world, into that cause, and gives them an easy way to support it.
 The reason I say that is because there are so many different things. You touched on a bunch of them. The easiest way to look at that is time, talent, and treasure. You can donate some of your time or your employees if there is a specific job that needs to be done, and treasure, your money, your in-kind services. You mentioned real estate, giving space. The large organizations, the large businesses, they know this. They have got this down.
 A lot of my examples will be from the animal rescue. PetSmart donates space all the time for local rescue groups to come in. It’s no skin off their back because they have the space anyway. They are getting more people into the store. They have a higher footprint in there. If you get a dog or cat in PetSmart, chances are you will buy some supplies in there. You won’t turn around and go to Petco. Again, they get that benefit, the halo effect of we’re just not about making money, we want to find those pets homes. We know that our audience, our customers care about that cause.
 It’s something that the larger businesses have known for years. I think the larger nonprofits have known for years. But when it comes to the small businesses and the small nonprofits, who I think get left out of the conversation because they don’t have that staff. It’s just a bunch of dedicated people who are giving up their weekends and spare bedroom to work for a cause.
 Hugh: There’s another channel, which I did leave out, which is board members. People in the company can serve as board members. I’m thinking as you talk about cause marketing, it’s because marketing. It’s because it provides value to humankind. Because it’s good for business. Because, because, because.
 Sheryl: That was almost the title of the book.
 Hugh: Was it? I want to toss the interview to Russell, who has some thoughtful questions. This is very helpful, Sheryl. Thank you for sharing today. Russell, what are you thinking?
 Russell Dennis: I’m thinking I love her approach. When you get a good idea, write a book. That way people know about it. It creates accountability for yourself because you publicly went out and said things. Large organizations do have a little bit more bandwidth on the marketing front. You have businesses of all sizes. Some of the larger ones may have in-depth plans. Talk a little bit about ways that small nonprofits can get on the business’s radar screen. On the flip side, talk about some ways businesses can identify some of these smaller organizations that are doing work that is In line with their corporate social responsibility programs.
 Sheryl: I think first, from the nonprofit standpoint, even the small ones, you are building a business. The small ones that survive and eventually grow larger, they understand this. The ones that are just a bunch of gung-ho people who have huge hearts and really want to change the world, they’re wonderful and amazing, but they’re going to burn out. If you don’t look at it as a business and creating a sustainable organization, you will fall flat. One of the biggest things that I’ve seen—of course there is the whole debate on overhead—a nonprofit that turns around and waves a flag proudly, saying, “We don’t pay anybody. Everything goes into our programs 100%,” it’s fantastic for the first three to six months. After that, it’s not sustainable. Thinking about it as a business is that first step.
 The second one is building that brand. Realizing just like a business, you need to be raising awareness constantly. You need to be building your social media footprint and your email list and making yourself attractive so that somebody would want to come and say, “Yeah, I want to work with you. You have 10,000 followers. You have an email list of a couple thousand people I would love to get in front of.” From the nonprofit standpoint, it’s being able to communicate what you do very clearly. What is the benefit you bring to the marketplace? Even though it’s for purpose, you’re still in a marketplace. Communicating that and raising that awareness constantly. For lack of a better term, keeping your nose clean. Keeping that reputation up. News travels fast. It really does. There are great quotes out there, none of which are coming to mind right now. A reputation can be destroyed in one Facebook post, one conversation, one argument that you have, or one bad-mouthing of another organization. Making yourself attractive is about you have to look good before you can attract someone. That sounds so bad. Building up your group, your brand.
 Being easy to work with. I talked about this in my book. We had an e-cig company that reached out to us and wanted to do some fundraising for us. I asked her what she needed. How can we help? Logos, promotion. What can we do? She said, “No, you’re fine. We’ll tell you when we have the check.” They brought the comically large check, and we did the photos and everything. She thanked me for being easy to work with.
 And it blew my mind because they want to give you money. Why are you making it difficult? If it’s a good match, do what you can, and I understand. We’re understaffed. Some are not staffed at all. Find that person who is willing to be that point of contact. Sometimes they don’t want to do what the rescue or the organization does. I don’t go into the shelters. I don’t pull animals out. I can’t do it. It hurts my heart. But I can do this. Find those people. Find the people who want to be the go-between, the media, the connection. Did that help?
 Russell: When you’re talking about getting people involved, I love time, talent, and treasure, that’s what I talk about, it’s hard to confuse it. People who give you one will generally give you the others if you ask. It’s astounding how many people don’t ask. There is something about asking, which speaks to a concept of value, I think. Value is a word that gets a different angle placed upon it by a business. What you’re doing when you’re trying to create or grow something, you’re actually providing value. When it comes to looking at a nonprofit, and you talked a little about overhead, people don’t think of the value of those types of things when it comes to a nonprofit. Businesses are rewarded by higher-end marketing geniuses coming up with campaigns and investing in making their people better so they can provide better service. There is some sort of resistance when it comes to charity work to the idea of having a nonprofit invest in these things. How do you flip that conversation around in the minds of people who write a check? As far as having the infrastructure to actually deliver value.
 Sheryl: The first thing that I do, I’m a huge fan of Dan Pallotta. His TED Talks should be mandatory watching material for every human being. In my book, and I took a smart-ass approach to it because that’s how I am, I invited business owners, and I did about three pages on this. I said, “Hey, I have this great opportunity for you. I would love for you to come work seven days a week, ten hours a day, and I’m not going to pay you. I want you to bring all of your employees with you. We’re not going to have a roof over our head. It will be cold while we’re working. But it will be okay because you will have that inner feeling that you’re changing the world. Don’t worry when your bills come, when your mortgage arrives in the mail. You just write, ‘I’m changing the world’ on it, and they will zero out your balance.” I went for about three pages. One of my beta readers stopped in the middle and didn’t like it. She got to the end and was like, “Nope, you needed every single bit of this.”
 It was about changing the mindset from both the business’s point of view and the nonprofit point of view. My founder actually waited to file the paperwork for the nonprofit because she didn’t want to spend that money on paperwork and business when she could be saving a life with it. We all have that attitude going in. You have to realize that it’s not self-sustaining. You’re not going to get far ahead. As Dan Pallotta talks about putting a marketing flyer on the laundromat wall for a bake sale, and you bring in $200, and everyone is doing a Snoopy dance, but when you actually put money into this intelligently and properly and not just throwing money around like many businesses probably do, but you actually invest in improving and in growing and in spreading that awareness. I think it’s just a mindset shift that businesses need to make, but nonprofits need to make first so they can help them.
 Russell: It definitely is when you start talking about value. If you get someone who is working for a human services agency, they can talk a great deal about how they sit in front of people and how it’s important to move people from where they are to a better place, which is what an organization is set up for. When it comes to talking about value, that is something I think that nonprofit leaders need to have- That’s the other mind shift. They have to be able to talk about that and couch that in terms that are valuable to their supporters. It’s about finding out the right language to use. There is a process for each of them to get connected with one another. It’s a little different. Talk a little bit about the process the business goes to find a good project. Same thing for the nonprofit, and where you see the most common disconnects for each one of them when trying to get connected to the right people.
 Sheryl: I want to speak about value for a second. Then I will jump to that. There is that value that you need to communicate to the community, what we do for the community. There is also the value you inherently have as an organization to communicate to the business. We have these people following us. We have this space.
 When it comes to finding that partner, the best thing I have seen is once you’ve identified what you care about, there is a couple different ways that businesses can go about this. This is what I care about as the founder or CEO because I have this history with it. There is let me find out what my employees care about. There is also what makes sense for my business, my industry. If you are a restaurant, you might want to work with a food bank. If you’re a home builder, you might want to work with someone who provides housing for less fortunate people. There is always that match-up. That can go horribly wrong. Choose wisely.
 But then when it comes to choosing the actual nonprofit, this is why reputation is so important. There are people who will go out there and look at IRS records. You can spend half your life reviewing different nonprofits and seeing what their score is. Or you can just put it out to your people and say, “Hey, we are going to be supporting a nonprofit. Which ones do you like?” I think that’s honestly for me the best way to 1) spread the word early that you will be supporting a nonprofit, even before you start, so it gets the word out and gets people excited about it. 2) It gets people involved. They now have a say in what you’re going to do. You’re way more likely to go along with something if you have a say in it. 3) Learning that reputation. Who is actually good out there? Who is doing what they say? Who is messing around and not going to be around for very long? I think that’s the best way for a business to look.
 What was the other part of that question actually?
 Russell: How should that nonprofit look? What is the disconnect? What is the most common thing they overlook in their efforts to identify the best partners in the business world to work with?
 Sheryl: From the nonprofit standpoint, your reputation as we’ve said is important before. Your reputation is important after. Collaborating with a business that has some shady practices, maybe they’re in an industry you don’t want to be associated with. We get so excited. We need the money. We need the funding. You will give us some money! Thank goodness. We don’t care who it comes from. But when you do create that collaboration, when you do work with a business, you are taking on their garbage. Let’s put that nicely. Really realizing what are those values that you want to continue upholding as an organization? What businesses fit those values, fit the industry, make sense, because the halo effect, that business is going to get something from you. You want to make sure that what you get from them isn’t just money and then damages your reputation.
 Russell: One of the toughest sentences for a business or nonprofit to digest is “No.” That word is a full sentence. I don’t think a lot of people wrap their mind around that. There are times when that is the appropriate response. When you’re talking to either a business or a nonprofit, and that word comes up when you get that match, somebody says, “No,” how do you help people look at that? How do you help them have the proper perspective on that in these situations? Sometimes people shut down when they hear that word.
 Sheryl: You have to think about it like dating. Everybody that you go out with is not the right person for you. That’s okay. It doesn’t speak badly about you. Most of the time, it doesn’t speak badly about them. It’s just not a good fit. In the nonprofit world, we are so passionate about what we do, and we care so deeply about our cause that many of us will do it for free. However, not everybody cares about your cause. It’s hard to hear, but when I was just hitting the street asking for small donations from businesses, I started out my conversations after a while with, “Hey, are you an animal lover?” I’m not going to waste the next 10 minutes and my breath in the whole spiel of why we’re amazing and saving animals if you don’t care. Figuring out is that their cause, is that something that matters to them. If not, it’s going to be okay. You have to pick yourself up and move onto the next one.
 Same with the business aspect. Realizing that nonprofits are not just crawling around begging. They are building their own brand and reputation. Depending on what you do, it might be an industry they’re not wanting to connect with. Or it could be something you’re doing. It could even be what you’re offering. That’s one of the most difficult things that we run into from the nonprofit side is businesses approach us and say, “We want to give you this.” That is awesome, but we don’t need that. They want to bring 60 people down to have a wonderful volunteer event. That’s amazing, thank you. We literally with fire code can’t have 60 people in there. So it comes down to is it a good fit culture-wise, values-wise, but is it also a good fit? Do they want what you have? Do they need what you’re offering? If not, it’s nothing against you. It’s not just a good fit. It’s all in the mindset of can you accept that and move to the next organization? If not, you have to fix things on your end.
 Hugh: You’re singing the song that Russell sings. He has this point of clarity that we never really find out by listening what people are interested in and what their passion is, whether it’s board members or donors or corporate collaborations. I’m wondering, talk about the responsibilities on both sides. We get a sponsor. Great, boom. There is some responsibility because that is marketing money. We have to be careful when we make a pitch in nonprofits. The call to action has to go to a home page. There are some requirements there. A good example I refer to a lot is Viking Cruises on public television, Sunday nights with Masterpiece Theatre. They show a sizzle for more information. That is a clear demonstration of how sponsorship works for both sides.
 Sheryl: This was something I learned on the journey of writing the book. I had no idea. I was as guilty as organizations putting out, “Hey, go buy this because we will get something out of it.” It’s actually funny. I was reading Cause Marketing for Dummies. They mentioned an attorney in Las Vegas who specialized in cause marketing. One of my best friends is an attorney. After I got over the why would you need an attorney fantasy world, I reached out and actually was connected with him within a week. We sat down, and he told me all about this responsibility, which I don’t think small nonprofits understand. You cannot act as an advertiser for these businesses unless you want to kick off an UBIT (Unrelated Business Income Task). I’m not an attorney. I’m not a tax accountant. By all means, please find someone who knows more than I do. But it is realizing that you can’t be that advertising firm for a business no matter what they’re doing for you. I like how you put that, you can’t have the call to action.
 Hugh: When you do a call to action, it kicks in that dynamic. Russell knows more about it from the IRS. There are complete guidelines. You do present the brand, and they resonate. Viking Cruises is a great example. They are in the hour where when the people who can go on cruises are on TV. They show the boats and the great stuff, people having fun. There is some clear guidelines there. It shows that this business is supporting really high-quality entertainment on television and this nonprofit. To me, there is a win-win.
 Just as we’re talking, I thought of a fifth connection. There is what is called earned income, like an Amazon Smile account, or a grocery store that gives 5% to charities when you shop. Most companies have a residual, where they take money and make a donation to the charity. There is ways you can register. That is generated income. All of these have very strict rules around them. There are lots of reasons to have conversations in business. Why don’t charities have a conversation with business about any of these topics?
 Sheryl: Honestly, I think it comes down to the perceived value of the nonprofit and their own perceived value, not thinking they have anything to offer. I go through all the different ways to do an inventory on your business and your nonprofit to see what you have to give, all of the things you mentioned and more. When you realize that value, you’re more likely to approach, to say, “Hey, we would like to work with a business. We know we can offer them” the brand, the audience, and even just saying, this is where those rules kick in, just saying, “Hey, thank you for the support to XYZ business. Check out their website and see how they’re helping us.” Putting that out there. Great, you gave us money, and moving on with your day.
 When you talk about responsibility of the nonprofit, I believe that one of the biggest responsibilities the nonprofit has is to educate the business. When you see these pin-up campaigns, the point of sale at a register, you go in, and if it’s active, the cashier is actually saying something to you, it’s like, “Would you like to support childhood cancer?” They’re dead. They’ve said it 4,000 times that day. They have no idea what the organization does. Instead of saying, “Oh, cool, you want to raise money for us? Great, go ahead. There is information on our website,” if you could take the time to, if you have a facility, give a tour. If you do not have a facility, talk to the employees and explain what it is you do, why it’s so important to the community you serve, and what their donation does so that they can have the conversation with a customer if they ask. But they can be excited about it. It’s not just Day of the Walking Dead there with zombies spouting out that same line time and time again. There is passion behind it. “You know what? If you do this, we get to help kids with cancer!” How cool is that? They have that fire in them.
 Turning it into not a partnership, but the attorney made it very clear that he can’t call it a partnership, or he pops out from somewhere and yells at you. When you collaborate with someone, you make it that true collaboration. Here’s what we do. Here’s how you get involved. Here’s why you’re important.
 Hugh: It’s a win-win situation.
 Russell It is important. It is valuable to have that common language. The point of overwhelm for both sides is, Ok, we have to come up with this type of thing. We want to save X dollars on taxes. We want to raise X dollars. Then it’s throwing something against the wall to see what sticks. How important is it for them to be focused? What kind of steps can they take to identify organizations that are a better fit so that when they start prospecting, they are actually in a better position to get a Yes because they’ve done a little bit of homework?
 Sheryl: I think one is identifying exactly what you need. If it’s $6 million, you’re either going to go to a lot of small businesses or shoot for a larger organization. If it is maybe just some donations that you need or some help, you need an accountant to come in, really identifying what it is you need before you approach anyone else. That’s a huge part.
 Respecting their guidelines. I learned this unfortunately very early. Some of the larger casinos and corporations don’t see the value in animals. They do wonderful things in the community, but they are strictly focused on human services and things that affect humans directly, like food, home issues. When I walked in there all excited to explain how animals are the best thing ever and rescuing them is amazing and how that impacts humans—anyone who has had an animal understands that—but it’s not within their guidelines. So if it is a larger organization, realizing that they might just not be focused on you. Beyond that, if they do have guidelines, checking those out. Also finding out where they have donated in the past. What do they care about? Where do they put their money? What do they expect in return? Is this a true collaboration where they are expecting marketing help? I almost want to back out of that statement. What are they expecting out of this pairing? That’s important.
 One of the other things, and this is why I focused on small businesses and small nonprofits with the book, is if you are a small nonprofit and you reach out to the largest business, the huge corporations, you’re not even on their radar. Unfortunately, they want to work with the large nonprofit. We see that even at the local level where they are the biggest nonprofit in town. They are who the businesses want to work with. Go with the small guys. If you’re a small guy, it’s okay to work with a small guy. It means more to both of you.
 I did one interview where she just kept saying, “If you want to go to the big corporation, who do you contact?” I was like, “You don’t want to do this.” Start out with a small business. Start out at the grassroots community level. You will get more attention, more help, and more funding for your time invested.
 Russell: It is. What are some things that a small nonprofit needs to look out for? On the flip side, what are some things that a business needs to look out for when they are considering doing these types of collaborations?
 Sheryl: Once you have done all of your homework, once you have researched their reputation in the community—and I can’t say that enough just how important it is to know who you’re dealing with and whether they are an amazing organization, nonprofit and for-profit organization, do other people see them that way? Unfortunately, it comes down to you can be the best organization on the planet, but if someone decided you weren’t and smeared your name, do you want to add that danger to the situation?
 Once you’ve done your homework and watched out for all those earning signs, trust your gut. It sounds trite to really rely on your emotions here. I know everybody is so numbers-focused. When you are getting into a situation, either as an individual or as an organization that you are not supposed to be getting into, when you look back on it six months, a year, six years later, you can go, “That didn’t feel right. The hair on the back of my neck was standing up.” You go that icky gut feeling, that feels professional. Look for the icky gut feeling. Pay attention. I think, and I’ve gotten into some situations like this in my business. When I look back and think about that first meeting and those first conversations, “That wasn’t good from day one.” You ignored it because you were excited about money coming your way. Do your homework, and trust your gut.
 Hugh: We tend to forget, especially in the nonprofit side, the touchpoints that are so important, not only with sponsorships, but donors. You want to update them with messages telling them what is happening. Like you talked about earlier, we are going around with our hand out all about the money. Well, it’s not. It’s about the impact of the results of our work. Everybody shares in that. Putting together a win-win, but also having somebody in the organization who is dedicated to that messaging, any of those types of connections. You want to stay in touch.
 Sheryl: I think that it’s something that a lot of organizations struggle with. Having somebody handle that, but also remembering. Saying “Thank you” is easy. Being grateful is very easy. Looking at this is how many lives were saved, these many children got shoes, and these many homeless people were fed or served. Whatever that may be, whatever that impact is, it’s not just the appreciation that keeps donors and businesses coming back to help over and over again. It’s knowing that they’ve actually made an impact. That’s a great point. I don’t even know if I addressed that in the book. It’s going in the second edition, courtesy of you.
 Hugh: Also, you want to continue to focus on the value, and you want to keep that thread going. I was touched that you said that. It seems natural. We’re winding down this thoughtful interview. You mentioned Dan Pallotta. He has some good paradigm shifts. We tend to dumb down. His TED Talk is “The Way We Think About Charity is Dead Wrong.”
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 Sheryl, what is your final thought? Is there a particular challenge or tip or thought that you would like to leave people with? Russell will close out this helpful interview.
 Sheryl: Final thought. I think that working together, there is nothing that we can’t do. Without getting into any government stuff, there are a lot of problems out there that the government is not fixing. It’s up to the nonprofits and the for-profits to get together and find a way to make this world a better place. It might sound cheesy to put it that way, but we all have that responsibility. When we lean on each other and work together to make it better for everybody, that’s better for everybody. Oh, and spay and neuter your pets.
 Russell: I think Skittles will enjoy this interview. It is important. Thank you so much, Sheryl, for coming and sharing your wisdom with us. Do Good to Do Better: A Small Business Guide to Growing Your Business by Helping Nonprofits.This book will go on our list. 2020, we are going to have lists of books that nonprofit leaders should read that we will be highlighting. This book is one of them. There are other books. Another one is Asking Rights by Tom Ralser. These are books that can help get that conversation going so that we can collaborate to do more good in the community.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 12 Jan 2020 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/75ce967e-b329-11eb-9f0f-eb8a15a52c4d/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Sheryl Green</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Making Your Organization Attractive for Cause Marketing Collaborations
 Sheryl Green is a writer, speaker, and animal rescuer. She is the author of four books including her most recent, Do Good to Do Better: The Small Business Guide to Growing your Business by Helping Nonprofits. Sheryl also serves as the Director of Communications and Cuddling for Hearts Alive Village Animal Rescue in Las Vegas.
 There's a way to position yourself so that businesses want to work with you and help you raise money.
  
  
 Read the Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Happy first of the year! It’s 2020 when we’re recording this. Russell is in Denver. I’m in central western Virginia, the commonwealth of Virginia. Sheryl is in beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada. Sheryl, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell people a little about what you’re doing and why you’re doing it.
 Sheryl Green: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited. The why I’m doing it I think is the most important to start with. In 2008, I went through a very difficult divorce and moved out to Las Vegas for a fresh start. Went through horrible divorce, horrible bankruptcy. Did not know anybody here besides my parents. Ended up in a pretty serious depression. At that point, my step-mom dragged me off the bathroom floor, where I was curled up hysterically crying, and she said, “Go do something for someone else.” And it was the best personal advice, and it turned out to be the best business advice that I’d ever gotten.
 I found my way to animal rescue. I started out doing small adoption events, and eventually I worked my way up to creating 5,000-person events. I put on a festival and started as the director of communications (and cuddling) for Hearts Alive Village Las Vegas. Even though this has been a volunteer role pretty much the entire time, and I’ve been on the board, but it started to dawn on me just how difficult the nonprofit world is. Anybody that has spent any time in there, you have spent half of your life with your hand out, begging for money and begging for help. It took a while to put that together. I started my own business with speaking and writing and things like that and realized that if a nonprofit could actually connect with a business, and even more importantly in my world, a small nonprofit could connect with a small business, we could make some real differences in our communities. That is what got me on this path.
 Hugh: Whoa. What a novel concept. I have worked with nonprofit leaders for 32 years. Russell has a whole history in various forms of working in nonprofits. It spans more years than that. I am in the saddle as the president of the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra. Doing stuff inside of an organization is different. I developed my methodology working inside of organizations. I have been working outside for so many years. It’s good to go back inside and see both sides of this. I’m pleased that all the systems we created actually work. There is a funny relationship that organizations have with businesses. Businesses don’t understand basically why it’s good for business to be active and to support nonprofits. When you first have a conversation, do you start with a nonprofit or a business?
 Sheryl: It depends on the situation. I was going to say that I start with the nonprofit, but you know what? Now I am starting to work closely with small businesses, showing them, going beyond the obvious “Yes, you should help, and we should change the world together,” going beyond that and showing them the benefits to their business of helping, getting in front of a new audience, attracting those who believe in the same things as you and really branding yourself as someone who cares about more than just money.
 Hugh: Triple bottom line.
 Sheryl: Yes.
 Hugh: People, the planet, and the profit.
 Sheryl: I like that.
 Hugh: It is. There is books behind you. Are any of those books created by you?
 Sheryl: Those books are all by me. I’ve been writing. I started out with fiction back in 2009. I have a degree in forensic psychology. I never actually got to hunt down serial killers, which is what I wanted to do. Instead, I decided to write about them. Those books have not yet seen the light of day, but they will.
 I moved into writing nonfiction probably about four years ago now. And started out with a personal development book about my own experiences. Then moved onto how can I help businesses and nonprofits improve their organizations.
 Hugh: Wow. I’m sure we can find those on Amazon. I will put them on the interview. SherylGreenSpeaks.com is your main website. I believe it’s on the page we set up for this interview.
 A little more. How does the book connect you in the world? Does the book have a functional reason? Is it just you telling your story?
 Sheryl: That’s a longer story. My journey in speaking has been circuitous. I started out not knowing what I was an expert in because in the speaking world, you’re not a speaker, you’re an expert who speaks. I realized after my divorce and the hard knocks I’ve taken that I was really good at getting kicked and getting back up stronger and being that resilient, learning how to teach resilience. I started out on that path. It took a little while to realize that wasn’t necessarily where my heart was. I moved into realizing I’d been writing content for businesses and nonprofits for a couple of years at that point, and I realized that I’m a storyteller. It started out when I wrote fiction and moved onto when I was actually writing for businesses. I realized I could teach businesses and nonprofits how to communicate what they do and how to share that story so that they can really better serve their clients and donors.
 One of the stories I wish I could tell you exactly where I came across the term “cause marketing.” I don’t remember. I suspect there were angels in a bright light. When I realized that there was actually something in place for nonprofits and businesses to work together, that became one of the stories that I recommend we tell. You’ve got your why story, which most people talk about their origin. You have success stories, and that you’re actually doing what you say you do. The cause marketing story goes beyond that for me. I like to call it selling warm fuzzies instead of widgets because for the business, it becomes less about what they actually do and what they sell and more about who they are and what they stand for. It evolved from there.
 I started studying cause marketing and learned more about it. I realized it could make a huge impact in how nonprofits and businesses operate and in the cesspool of disaster that our country is in. I’m sorry. That wasn’t positive, was it?
 Hugh: It’s realistic. You didn’t blame anybody.
 Sheryl: No, no. It’s just a mess. We won’t go into that.
 Hugh: Fascinated by going back to ancient stuff. Going back to the Bible, in Ecclesiastes, he says, “There is nothing new under the sun.” Back when they wrote those books, they are dealing with the same kind of stuff we have right now. It seems like in all these years, we could have progressed civilization.
 Sheryl: Just a lot less social media back then, so it wasn’t as painful.
 Hugh: People had a way of getting things out. There are several points of connection that come to my mind. One of our guests gave us a different word, for-profit and for-purpose. Nonprofit is a dumb word because you have to make a profit, but it does identify the segment. The business can be a donor to the nonprofit, which is philanthropy. The business can be a sponsor, which is their marketing money. The business can provide in-kind support. It could be printing, volunteers. People in the company might want to be of service. If it’s a food bank or a free clinic, they could go down and serve on a regular occasion. We have donors, sponsors, in-kind contributions. Those are very different. And then there’s making space available. Sometimes companies have meeting rooms or event spaces and planning and implementing skills. There are those kinds of connections. Are there others? Do you want to talk about those and how they benefit both sides?
 Sheryl: While I use the term “cause marketing,” I want to give this brief statement that it’s not just cause marketing. That term has been pigeonholed for the buy one/get one, the pin-ups in stores, where it’s transaction-based. While that is wonderful and definitely one of the approaches that you can take, I think there is a lot more that we can do, from the small business standpoint, in terms of standing for a cause. So that it’s not just if you buy this, I will donate, which is great, and you should do it. But there is also spreading awareness, sharing your audience with that nonprofit. Creating awareness around the cause. A lot of people don’t even know what issues are out there. I don’t know how this is even the case, but I was at a fundraising workshop a few months ago, and she said that some people don’t donate because they’re not asked.
 Hugh: That’s right.
 Sheryl: They’re clearly not on my Facebook page because I am asking for donations all the time for the rescue. Creating that collaboration, and I will not say partnership, gives you the ability to bring your customers into that world, into that cause, and gives them an easy way to support it.
 The reason I say that is because there are so many different things. You touched on a bunch of them. The easiest way to look at that is time, talent, and treasure. You can donate some of your time or your employees if there is a specific job that needs to be done, and treasure, your money, your in-kind services. You mentioned real estate, giving space. The large organizations, the large businesses, they know this. They have got this down.
 A lot of my examples will be from the animal rescue. PetSmart donates space all the time for local rescue groups to come in. It’s no skin off their back because they have the space anyway. They are getting more people into the store. They have a higher footprint in there. If you get a dog or cat in PetSmart, chances are you will buy some supplies in there. You won’t turn around and go to Petco. Again, they get that benefit, the halo effect of we’re just not about making money, we want to find those pets homes. We know that our audience, our customers care about that cause.
 It’s something that the larger businesses have known for years. I think the larger nonprofits have known for years. But when it comes to the small businesses and the small nonprofits, who I think get left out of the conversation because they don’t have that staff. It’s just a bunch of dedicated people who are giving up their weekends and spare bedroom to work for a cause.
 Hugh: There’s another channel, which I did leave out, which is board members. People in the company can serve as board members. I’m thinking as you talk about cause marketing, it’s because marketing. It’s because it provides value to humankind. Because it’s good for business. Because, because, because.
 Sheryl: That was almost the title of the book.
 Hugh: Was it? I want to toss the interview to Russell, who has some thoughtful questions. This is very helpful, Sheryl. Thank you for sharing today. Russell, what are you thinking?
 Russell Dennis: I’m thinking I love her approach. When you get a good idea, write a book. That way people know about it. It creates accountability for yourself because you publicly went out and said things. Large organizations do have a little bit more bandwidth on the marketing front. You have businesses of all sizes. Some of the larger ones may have in-depth plans. Talk a little bit about ways that small nonprofits can get on the business’s radar screen. On the flip side, talk about some ways businesses can identify some of these smaller organizations that are doing work that is In line with their corporate social responsibility programs.
 Sheryl: I think first, from the nonprofit standpoint, even the small ones, you are building a business. The small ones that survive and eventually grow larger, they understand this. The ones that are just a bunch of gung-ho people who have huge hearts and really want to change the world, they’re wonderful and amazing, but they’re going to burn out. If you don’t look at it as a business and creating a sustainable organization, you will fall flat. One of the biggest things that I’ve seen—of course there is the whole debate on overhead—a nonprofit that turns around and waves a flag proudly, saying, “We don’t pay anybody. Everything goes into our programs 100%,” it’s fantastic for the first three to six months. After that, it’s not sustainable. Thinking about it as a business is that first step.
 The second one is building that brand. Realizing just like a business, you need to be raising awareness constantly. You need to be building your social media footprint and your email list and making yourself attractive so that somebody would want to come and say, “Yeah, I want to work with you. You have 10,000 followers. You have an email list of a couple thousand people I would love to get in front of.” From the nonprofit standpoint, it’s being able to communicate what you do very clearly. What is the benefit you bring to the marketplace? Even though it’s for purpose, you’re still in a marketplace. Communicating that and raising that awareness constantly. For lack of a better term, keeping your nose clean. Keeping that reputation up. News travels fast. It really does. There are great quotes out there, none of which are coming to mind right now. A reputation can be destroyed in one Facebook post, one conversation, one argument that you have, or one bad-mouthing of another organization. Making yourself attractive is about you have to look good before you can attract someone. That sounds so bad. Building up your group, your brand.
 Being easy to work with. I talked about this in my book. We had an e-cig company that reached out to us and wanted to do some fundraising for us. I asked her what she needed. How can we help? Logos, promotion. What can we do? She said, “No, you’re fine. We’ll tell you when we have the check.” They brought the comically large check, and we did the photos and everything. She thanked me for being easy to work with.
 And it blew my mind because they want to give you money. Why are you making it difficult? If it’s a good match, do what you can, and I understand. We’re understaffed. Some are not staffed at all. Find that person who is willing to be that point of contact. Sometimes they don’t want to do what the rescue or the organization does. I don’t go into the shelters. I don’t pull animals out. I can’t do it. It hurts my heart. But I can do this. Find those people. Find the people who want to be the go-between, the media, the connection. Did that help?
 Russell: When you’re talking about getting people involved, I love time, talent, and treasure, that’s what I talk about, it’s hard to confuse it. People who give you one will generally give you the others if you ask. It’s astounding how many people don’t ask. There is something about asking, which speaks to a concept of value, I think. Value is a word that gets a different angle placed upon it by a business. What you’re doing when you’re trying to create or grow something, you’re actually providing value. When it comes to looking at a nonprofit, and you talked a little about overhead, people don’t think of the value of those types of things when it comes to a nonprofit. Businesses are rewarded by higher-end marketing geniuses coming up with campaigns and investing in making their people better so they can provide better service. There is some sort of resistance when it comes to charity work to the idea of having a nonprofit invest in these things. How do you flip that conversation around in the minds of people who write a check? As far as having the infrastructure to actually deliver value.
 Sheryl: The first thing that I do, I’m a huge fan of Dan Pallotta. His TED Talks should be mandatory watching material for every human being. In my book, and I took a smart-ass approach to it because that’s how I am, I invited business owners, and I did about three pages on this. I said, “Hey, I have this great opportunity for you. I would love for you to come work seven days a week, ten hours a day, and I’m not going to pay you. I want you to bring all of your employees with you. We’re not going to have a roof over our head. It will be cold while we’re working. But it will be okay because you will have that inner feeling that you’re changing the world. Don’t worry when your bills come, when your mortgage arrives in the mail. You just write, ‘I’m changing the world’ on it, and they will zero out your balance.” I went for about three pages. One of my beta readers stopped in the middle and didn’t like it. She got to the end and was like, “Nope, you needed every single bit of this.”
 It was about changing the mindset from both the business’s point of view and the nonprofit point of view. My founder actually waited to file the paperwork for the nonprofit because she didn’t want to spend that money on paperwork and business when she could be saving a life with it. We all have that attitude going in. You have to realize that it’s not self-sustaining. You’re not going to get far ahead. As Dan Pallotta talks about putting a marketing flyer on the laundromat wall for a bake sale, and you bring in $200, and everyone is doing a Snoopy dance, but when you actually put money into this intelligently and properly and not just throwing money around like many businesses probably do, but you actually invest in improving and in growing and in spreading that awareness. I think it’s just a mindset shift that businesses need to make, but nonprofits need to make first so they can help them.
 Russell: It definitely is when you start talking about value. If you get someone who is working for a human services agency, they can talk a great deal about how they sit in front of people and how it’s important to move people from where they are to a better place, which is what an organization is set up for. When it comes to talking about value, that is something I think that nonprofit leaders need to have- That’s the other mind shift. They have to be able to talk about that and couch that in terms that are valuable to their supporters. It’s about finding out the right language to use. There is a process for each of them to get connected with one another. It’s a little different. Talk a little bit about the process the business goes to find a good project. Same thing for the nonprofit, and where you see the most common disconnects for each one of them when trying to get connected to the right people.
 Sheryl: I want to speak about value for a second. Then I will jump to that. There is that value that you need to communicate to the community, what we do for the community. There is also the value you inherently have as an organization to communicate to the business. We have these people following us. We have this space.
 When it comes to finding that partner, the best thing I have seen is once you’ve identified what you care about, there is a couple different ways that businesses can go about this. This is what I care about as the founder or CEO because I have this history with it. There is let me find out what my employees care about. There is also what makes sense for my business, my industry. If you are a restaurant, you might want to work with a food bank. If you’re a home builder, you might want to work with someone who provides housing for less fortunate people. There is always that match-up. That can go horribly wrong. Choose wisely.
 But then when it comes to choosing the actual nonprofit, this is why reputation is so important. There are people who will go out there and look at IRS records. You can spend half your life reviewing different nonprofits and seeing what their score is. Or you can just put it out to your people and say, “Hey, we are going to be supporting a nonprofit. Which ones do you like?” I think that’s honestly for me the best way to 1) spread the word early that you will be supporting a nonprofit, even before you start, so it gets the word out and gets people excited about it. 2) It gets people involved. They now have a say in what you’re going to do. You’re way more likely to go along with something if you have a say in it. 3) Learning that reputation. Who is actually good out there? Who is doing what they say? Who is messing around and not going to be around for very long? I think that’s the best way for a business to look.
 What was the other part of that question actually?
 Russell: How should that nonprofit look? What is the disconnect? What is the most common thing they overlook in their efforts to identify the best partners in the business world to work with?
 Sheryl: From the nonprofit standpoint, your reputation as we’ve said is important before. Your reputation is important after. Collaborating with a business that has some shady practices, maybe they’re in an industry you don’t want to be associated with. We get so excited. We need the money. We need the funding. You will give us some money! Thank goodness. We don’t care who it comes from. But when you do create that collaboration, when you do work with a business, you are taking on their garbage. Let’s put that nicely. Really realizing what are those values that you want to continue upholding as an organization? What businesses fit those values, fit the industry, make sense, because the halo effect, that business is going to get something from you. You want to make sure that what you get from them isn’t just money and then damages your reputation.
 Russell: One of the toughest sentences for a business or nonprofit to digest is “No.” That word is a full sentence. I don’t think a lot of people wrap their mind around that. There are times when that is the appropriate response. When you’re talking to either a business or a nonprofit, and that word comes up when you get that match, somebody says, “No,” how do you help people look at that? How do you help them have the proper perspective on that in these situations? Sometimes people shut down when they hear that word.
 Sheryl: You have to think about it like dating. Everybody that you go out with is not the right person for you. That’s okay. It doesn’t speak badly about you. Most of the time, it doesn’t speak badly about them. It’s just not a good fit. In the nonprofit world, we are so passionate about what we do, and we care so deeply about our cause that many of us will do it for free. However, not everybody cares about your cause. It’s hard to hear, but when I was just hitting the street asking for small donations from businesses, I started out my conversations after a while with, “Hey, are you an animal lover?” I’m not going to waste the next 10 minutes and my breath in the whole spiel of why we’re amazing and saving animals if you don’t care. Figuring out is that their cause, is that something that matters to them. If not, it’s going to be okay. You have to pick yourself up and move onto the next one.
 Same with the business aspect. Realizing that nonprofits are not just crawling around begging. They are building their own brand and reputation. Depending on what you do, it might be an industry they’re not wanting to connect with. Or it could be something you’re doing. It could even be what you’re offering. That’s one of the most difficult things that we run into from the nonprofit side is businesses approach us and say, “We want to give you this.” That is awesome, but we don’t need that. They want to bring 60 people down to have a wonderful volunteer event. That’s amazing, thank you. We literally with fire code can’t have 60 people in there. So it comes down to is it a good fit culture-wise, values-wise, but is it also a good fit? Do they want what you have? Do they need what you’re offering? If not, it’s nothing against you. It’s not just a good fit. It’s all in the mindset of can you accept that and move to the next organization? If not, you have to fix things on your end.
 Hugh: You’re singing the song that Russell sings. He has this point of clarity that we never really find out by listening what people are interested in and what their passion is, whether it’s board members or donors or corporate collaborations. I’m wondering, talk about the responsibilities on both sides. We get a sponsor. Great, boom. There is some responsibility because that is marketing money. We have to be careful when we make a pitch in nonprofits. The call to action has to go to a home page. There are some requirements there. A good example I refer to a lot is Viking Cruises on public television, Sunday nights with Masterpiece Theatre. They show a sizzle for more information. That is a clear demonstration of how sponsorship works for both sides.
 Sheryl: This was something I learned on the journey of writing the book. I had no idea. I was as guilty as organizations putting out, “Hey, go buy this because we will get something out of it.” It’s actually funny. I was reading Cause Marketing for Dummies. They mentioned an attorney in Las Vegas who specialized in cause marketing. One of my best friends is an attorney. After I got over the why would you need an attorney fantasy world, I reached out and actually was connected with him within a week. We sat down, and he told me all about this responsibility, which I don’t think small nonprofits understand. You cannot act as an advertiser for these businesses unless you want to kick off an UBIT (Unrelated Business Income Task). I’m not an attorney. I’m not a tax accountant. By all means, please find someone who knows more than I do. But it is realizing that you can’t be that advertising firm for a business no matter what they’re doing for you. I like how you put that, you can’t have the call to action.
 Hugh: When you do a call to action, it kicks in that dynamic. Russell knows more about it from the IRS. There are complete guidelines. You do present the brand, and they resonate. Viking Cruises is a great example. They are in the hour where when the people who can go on cruises are on TV. They show the boats and the great stuff, people having fun. There is some clear guidelines there. It shows that this business is supporting really high-quality entertainment on television and this nonprofit. To me, there is a win-win.
 Just as we’re talking, I thought of a fifth connection. There is what is called earned income, like an Amazon Smile account, or a grocery store that gives 5% to charities when you shop. Most companies have a residual, where they take money and make a donation to the charity. There is ways you can register. That is generated income. All of these have very strict rules around them. There are lots of reasons to have conversations in business. Why don’t charities have a conversation with business about any of these topics?
 Sheryl: Honestly, I think it comes down to the perceived value of the nonprofit and their own perceived value, not thinking they have anything to offer. I go through all the different ways to do an inventory on your business and your nonprofit to see what you have to give, all of the things you mentioned and more. When you realize that value, you’re more likely to approach, to say, “Hey, we would like to work with a business. We know we can offer them” the brand, the audience, and even just saying, this is where those rules kick in, just saying, “Hey, thank you for the support to XYZ business. Check out their website and see how they’re helping us.” Putting that out there. Great, you gave us money, and moving on with your day.
 When you talk about responsibility of the nonprofit, I believe that one of the biggest responsibilities the nonprofit has is to educate the business. When you see these pin-up campaigns, the point of sale at a register, you go in, and if it’s active, the cashier is actually saying something to you, it’s like, “Would you like to support childhood cancer?” They’re dead. They’ve said it 4,000 times that day. They have no idea what the organization does. Instead of saying, “Oh, cool, you want to raise money for us? Great, go ahead. There is information on our website,” if you could take the time to, if you have a facility, give a tour. If you do not have a facility, talk to the employees and explain what it is you do, why it’s so important to the community you serve, and what their donation does so that they can have the conversation with a customer if they ask. But they can be excited about it. It’s not just Day of the Walking Dead there with zombies spouting out that same line time and time again. There is passion behind it. “You know what? If you do this, we get to help kids with cancer!” How cool is that? They have that fire in them.
 Turning it into not a partnership, but the attorney made it very clear that he can’t call it a partnership, or he pops out from somewhere and yells at you. When you collaborate with someone, you make it that true collaboration. Here’s what we do. Here’s how you get involved. Here’s why you’re important.
 Hugh: It’s a win-win situation.
 Russell It is important. It is valuable to have that common language. The point of overwhelm for both sides is, Ok, we have to come up with this type of thing. We want to save X dollars on taxes. We want to raise X dollars. Then it’s throwing something against the wall to see what sticks. How important is it for them to be focused? What kind of steps can they take to identify organizations that are a better fit so that when they start prospecting, they are actually in a better position to get a Yes because they’ve done a little bit of homework?
 Sheryl: I think one is identifying exactly what you need. If it’s $6 million, you’re either going to go to a lot of small businesses or shoot for a larger organization. If it is maybe just some donations that you need or some help, you need an accountant to come in, really identifying what it is you need before you approach anyone else. That’s a huge part.
 Respecting their guidelines. I learned this unfortunately very early. Some of the larger casinos and corporations don’t see the value in animals. They do wonderful things in the community, but they are strictly focused on human services and things that affect humans directly, like food, home issues. When I walked in there all excited to explain how animals are the best thing ever and rescuing them is amazing and how that impacts humans—anyone who has had an animal understands that—but it’s not within their guidelines. So if it is a larger organization, realizing that they might just not be focused on you. Beyond that, if they do have guidelines, checking those out. Also finding out where they have donated in the past. What do they care about? Where do they put their money? What do they expect in return? Is this a true collaboration where they are expecting marketing help? I almost want to back out of that statement. What are they expecting out of this pairing? That’s important.
 One of the other things, and this is why I focused on small businesses and small nonprofits with the book, is if you are a small nonprofit and you reach out to the largest business, the huge corporations, you’re not even on their radar. Unfortunately, they want to work with the large nonprofit. We see that even at the local level where they are the biggest nonprofit in town. They are who the businesses want to work with. Go with the small guys. If you’re a small guy, it’s okay to work with a small guy. It means more to both of you.
 I did one interview where she just kept saying, “If you want to go to the big corporation, who do you contact?” I was like, “You don’t want to do this.” Start out with a small business. Start out at the grassroots community level. You will get more attention, more help, and more funding for your time invested.
 Russell: It is. What are some things that a small nonprofit needs to look out for? On the flip side, what are some things that a business needs to look out for when they are considering doing these types of collaborations?
 Sheryl: Once you have done all of your homework, once you have researched their reputation in the community—and I can’t say that enough just how important it is to know who you’re dealing with and whether they are an amazing organization, nonprofit and for-profit organization, do other people see them that way? Unfortunately, it comes down to you can be the best organization on the planet, but if someone decided you weren’t and smeared your name, do you want to add that danger to the situation?
 Once you’ve done your homework and watched out for all those earning signs, trust your gut. It sounds trite to really rely on your emotions here. I know everybody is so numbers-focused. When you are getting into a situation, either as an individual or as an organization that you are not supposed to be getting into, when you look back on it six months, a year, six years later, you can go, “That didn’t feel right. The hair on the back of my neck was standing up.” You go that icky gut feeling, that feels professional. Look for the icky gut feeling. Pay attention. I think, and I’ve gotten into some situations like this in my business. When I look back and think about that first meeting and those first conversations, “That wasn’t good from day one.” You ignored it because you were excited about money coming your way. Do your homework, and trust your gut.
 Hugh: We tend to forget, especially in the nonprofit side, the touchpoints that are so important, not only with sponsorships, but donors. You want to update them with messages telling them what is happening. Like you talked about earlier, we are going around with our hand out all about the money. Well, it’s not. It’s about the impact of the results of our work. Everybody shares in that. Putting together a win-win, but also having somebody in the organization who is dedicated to that messaging, any of those types of connections. You want to stay in touch.
 Sheryl: I think that it’s something that a lot of organizations struggle with. Having somebody handle that, but also remembering. Saying “Thank you” is easy. Being grateful is very easy. Looking at this is how many lives were saved, these many children got shoes, and these many homeless people were fed or served. Whatever that may be, whatever that impact is, it’s not just the appreciation that keeps donors and businesses coming back to help over and over again. It’s knowing that they’ve actually made an impact. That’s a great point. I don’t even know if I addressed that in the book. It’s going in the second edition, courtesy of you.
 Hugh: Also, you want to continue to focus on the value, and you want to keep that thread going. I was touched that you said that. It seems natural. We’re winding down this thoughtful interview. You mentioned Dan Pallotta. He has some good paradigm shifts. We tend to dumb down. His TED Talk is “The Way We Think About Charity is Dead Wrong.”
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 Sheryl, what is your final thought? Is there a particular challenge or tip or thought that you would like to leave people with? Russell will close out this helpful interview.
 Sheryl: Final thought. I think that working together, there is nothing that we can’t do. Without getting into any government stuff, there are a lot of problems out there that the government is not fixing. It’s up to the nonprofits and the for-profits to get together and find a way to make this world a better place. It might sound cheesy to put it that way, but we all have that responsibility. When we lean on each other and work together to make it better for everybody, that’s better for everybody. Oh, and spay and neuter your pets.
 Russell: I think Skittles will enjoy this interview. It is important. Thank you so much, Sheryl, for coming and sharing your wisdom with us. Do Good to Do Better: A Small Business Guide to Growing Your Business by Helping Nonprofits.This book will go on our list. 2020, we are going to have lists of books that nonprofit leaders should read that we will be highlighting. This book is one of them. There are other books. Another one is Asking Rights by Tom Ralser. These are books that can help get that conversation going so that we can collaborate to do more good in the community.
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Making Your Organization Attractive for Cause Marketing Collaborations</strong></h1> <p><strong>Sheryl Green</strong> is a writer, speaker, and animal rescuer. She is the author of four books including her most recent, Do Good to Do Better: The Small Business Guide to Growing your Business by Helping Nonprofits. Sheryl also serves as the Director of Communications and Cuddling for Hearts Alive Village Animal Rescue in Las Vegas.</p> <p>There's a way to position yourself so that businesses want to work with you and help you raise money.</p> <p> </p> <p> </p> Read the Interview Transcript <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Happy first of the year! It’s 2020 when we’re recording this. Russell is in Denver. I’m in central western Virginia, the commonwealth of Virginia. Sheryl is in beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada. Sheryl, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Tell people a little about what you’re doing and why you’re doing it.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl Green:</strong> Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited. The why I’m doing it I think is the most important to start with. In 2008, I went through a very difficult divorce and moved out to Las Vegas for a fresh start. Went through horrible divorce, horrible bankruptcy. Did not know anybody here besides my parents. Ended up in a pretty serious depression. At that point, my step-mom dragged me off the bathroom floor, where I was curled up hysterically crying, and she said, “Go do something for someone else.” And it was the best personal advice, and it turned out to be the best business advice that I’d ever gotten.</p> <p>I found my way to animal rescue. I started out doing small adoption events, and eventually I worked my way up to creating 5,000-person events. I put on a festival and started as the director of communications (and cuddling) for Hearts Alive Village Las Vegas. Even though this has been a volunteer role pretty much the entire time, and I’ve been on the board, but it started to dawn on me just how difficult the nonprofit world is. Anybody that has spent any time in there, you have spent half of your life with your hand out, begging for money and begging for help. It took a while to put that together. I started my own business with speaking and writing and things like that and realized that if a nonprofit could actually connect with a business, and even more importantly in my world, a small nonprofit could connect with a small business, we could make some real differences in our communities. That is what got me on this path.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Whoa. What a novel concept. I have worked with nonprofit leaders for 32 years. Russell has a whole history in various forms of working in nonprofits. It spans more years than that. I am in the saddle as the president of the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra. Doing stuff inside of an organization is different. I developed my methodology working inside of organizations. I have been working outside for so many years. It’s good to go back inside and see both sides of this. I’m pleased that all the systems we created actually work. There is a funny relationship that organizations have with businesses. Businesses don’t understand basically why it’s good for business to be active and to support nonprofits. When you first have a conversation, do you start with a nonprofit or a business?</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> It depends on the situation. I was going to say that I start with the nonprofit, but you know what? Now I am starting to work closely with small businesses, showing them, going beyond the obvious “Yes, you should help, and we should change the world together,” going beyond that and showing them the benefits to their business of helping, getting in front of a new audience, attracting those who believe in the same things as you and really branding yourself as someone who cares about more than just money.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Triple bottom line.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> People, the planet, and the profit.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> I like that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It is. There is books behind you. Are any of those books created by you?</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> Those books are all by me. I’ve been writing. I started out with fiction back in 2009. I have a degree in forensic psychology. I never actually got to hunt down serial killers, which is what I wanted to do. Instead, I decided to write about them. Those books have not yet seen the light of day, but they will.</p> <p>I moved into writing nonfiction probably about four years ago now. And started out with a personal development book about my own experiences. Then moved onto how can I help businesses and nonprofits improve their organizations.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. I’m sure we can find those on Amazon. I will put them on the interview. SherylGreenSpeaks.com is your main website. I believe it’s on the page we set up for this interview.</p> <p>A little more. How does the book connect you in the world? Does the book have a functional reason? Is it just you telling your story?</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> That’s a longer story. My journey in speaking has been circuitous. I started out not knowing what I was an expert in because in the speaking world, you’re not a speaker, you’re an expert who speaks. I realized after my divorce and the hard knocks I’ve taken that I was really good at getting kicked and getting back up stronger and being that resilient, learning how to teach resilience. I started out on that path. It took a little while to realize that wasn’t necessarily where my heart was. I moved into realizing I’d been writing content for businesses and nonprofits for a couple of years at that point, and I realized that I’m a storyteller. It started out when I wrote fiction and moved onto when I was actually writing for businesses. I realized I could teach businesses and nonprofits how to communicate what they do and how to share that story so that they can really better serve their clients and donors.</p> <p>One of the stories I wish I could tell you exactly where I came across the term “cause marketing.” I don’t remember. I suspect there were angels in a bright light. When I realized that there was actually something in place for nonprofits and businesses to work together, that became one of the stories that I recommend we tell. You’ve got your why story, which most people talk about their origin. You have success stories, and that you’re actually doing what you say you do. The cause marketing story goes beyond that for me. I like to call it selling warm fuzzies instead of widgets because for the business, it becomes less about what they actually do and what they sell and more about who they are and what they stand for. It evolved from there.</p> <p>I started studying cause marketing and learned more about it. I realized it could make a huge impact in how nonprofits and businesses operate and in the cesspool of disaster that our country is in. I’m sorry. That wasn’t positive, was it?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s realistic. You didn’t blame anybody.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> No, no. It’s just a mess. We won’t go into that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Fascinated by going back to ancient stuff. Going back to the Bible, in Ecclesiastes, he says, “There is nothing new under the sun.” Back when they wrote those books, they are dealing with the same kind of stuff we have right now. It seems like in all these years, we could have progressed civilization.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> Just a lot less social media back then, so it wasn’t as painful.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> People had a way of getting things out. There are several points of connection that come to my mind. One of our guests gave us a different word, for-profit and for-purpose. Nonprofit is a dumb word because you have to make a profit, but it does identify the segment. The business can be a donor to the nonprofit, which is philanthropy. The business can be a sponsor, which is their marketing money. The business can provide in-kind support. It could be printing, volunteers. People in the company might want to be of service. If it’s a food bank or a free clinic, they could go down and serve on a regular occasion. We have donors, sponsors, in-kind contributions. Those are very different. And then there’s making space available. Sometimes companies have meeting rooms or event spaces and planning and implementing skills. There are those kinds of connections. Are there others? Do you want to talk about those and how they benefit both sides?</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> While I use the term “cause marketing,” I want to give this brief statement that it’s not just cause marketing. That term has been pigeonholed for the buy one/get one, the pin-ups in stores, where it’s transaction-based. While that is wonderful and definitely one of the approaches that you can take, I think there is a lot more that we can do, from the small business standpoint, in terms of standing for a cause. So that it’s not just if you buy this, I will donate, which is great, and you should do it. But there is also spreading awareness, sharing your audience with that nonprofit. Creating awareness around the cause. A lot of people don’t even know what issues are out there. I don’t know how this is even the case, but I was at a fundraising workshop a few months ago, and she said that some people don’t donate because they’re not asked.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s right.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> They’re clearly not on my Facebook page because I am asking for donations all the time for the rescue. Creating that collaboration, and I will not say partnership, gives you the ability to bring your customers into that world, into that cause, and gives them an easy way to support it.</p> <p>The reason I say that is because there are so many different things. You touched on a bunch of them. The easiest way to look at that is time, talent, and treasure. You can donate some of your time or your employees if there is a specific job that needs to be done, and treasure, your money, your in-kind services. You mentioned real estate, giving space. The large organizations, the large businesses, they know this. They have got this down.</p> <p>A lot of my examples will be from the animal rescue. PetSmart donates space all the time for local rescue groups to come in. It’s no skin off their back because they have the space anyway. They are getting more people into the store. They have a higher footprint in there. If you get a dog or cat in PetSmart, chances are you will buy some supplies in there. You won’t turn around and go to Petco. Again, they get that benefit, the halo effect of we’re just not about making money, we want to find those pets homes. We know that our audience, our customers care about that cause.</p> <p>It’s something that the larger businesses have known for years. I think the larger nonprofits have known for years. But when it comes to the small businesses and the small nonprofits, who I think get left out of the conversation because they don’t have that staff. It’s just a bunch of dedicated people who are giving up their weekends and spare bedroom to work for a cause.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There’s another channel, which I did leave out, which is board members. People in the company can serve as board members. I’m thinking as you talk about cause marketing, it’s because marketing. It’s because it provides value to humankind. Because it’s good for business. Because, because, because.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> That was almost the title of the book.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Was it? I want to toss the interview to Russell, who has some thoughtful questions. This is very helpful, Sheryl. Thank you for sharing today. Russell, what are you thinking?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> I’m thinking I love her approach. When you get a good idea, write a book. That way people know about it. It creates accountability for yourself because you publicly went out and said things. Large organizations do have a little bit more bandwidth on the marketing front. You have businesses of all sizes. Some of the larger ones may have in-depth plans. Talk a little bit about ways that small nonprofits can get on the business’s radar screen. On the flip side, talk about some ways businesses can identify some of these smaller organizations that are doing work that is In line with their corporate social responsibility programs.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> I think first, from the nonprofit standpoint, even the small ones, you are building a business. The small ones that survive and eventually grow larger, they understand this. The ones that are just a bunch of gung-ho people who have huge hearts and really want to change the world, they’re wonderful and amazing, but they’re going to burn out. If you don’t look at it as a business and creating a sustainable organization, you will fall flat. One of the biggest things that I’ve seen—of course there is the whole debate on overhead—a nonprofit that turns around and waves a flag proudly, saying, “We don’t pay anybody. Everything goes into our programs 100%,” it’s fantastic for the first three to six months. After that, it’s not sustainable. Thinking about it as a business is that first step.</p> <p>The second one is building that brand. Realizing just like a business, you need to be raising awareness constantly. You need to be building your social media footprint and your email list and making yourself attractive so that somebody would want to come and say, “Yeah, I want to work with you. You have 10,000 followers. You have an email list of a couple thousand people I would love to get in front of.” From the nonprofit standpoint, it’s being able to communicate what you do very clearly. What is the benefit you bring to the marketplace? Even though it’s for purpose, you’re still in a marketplace. Communicating that and raising that awareness constantly. For lack of a better term, keeping your nose clean. Keeping that reputation up. News travels fast. It really does. There are great quotes out there, none of which are coming to mind right now. A reputation can be destroyed in one Facebook post, one conversation, one argument that you have, or one bad-mouthing of another organization. Making yourself attractive is about you have to look good before you can attract someone. That sounds so bad. Building up your group, your brand.</p> <p>Being easy to work with. I talked about this in my book. We had an e-cig company that reached out to us and wanted to do some fundraising for us. I asked her what she needed. How can we help? Logos, promotion. What can we do? She said, “No, you’re fine. We’ll tell you when we have the check.” They brought the comically large check, and we did the photos and everything. She thanked me for being easy to work with.</p> <p>And it blew my mind because they want to give you money. Why are you making it difficult? If it’s a good match, do what you can, and I understand. We’re understaffed. Some are not staffed at all. Find that person who is willing to be that point of contact. Sometimes they don’t want to do what the rescue or the organization does. I don’t go into the shelters. I don’t pull animals out. I can’t do it. It hurts my heart. But I can do this. Find those people. Find the people who want to be the go-between, the media, the connection. Did that help?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> When you’re talking about getting people involved, I love time, talent, and treasure, that’s what I talk about, it’s hard to confuse it. People who give you one will generally give you the others if you ask. It’s astounding how many people don’t ask. There is something about asking, which speaks to a concept of value, I think. Value is a word that gets a different angle placed upon it by a business. What you’re doing when you’re trying to create or grow something, you’re actually providing value. When it comes to looking at a nonprofit, and you talked a little about overhead, people don’t think of the value of those types of things when it comes to a nonprofit. Businesses are rewarded by higher-end marketing geniuses coming up with campaigns and investing in making their people better so they can provide better service. There is some sort of resistance when it comes to charity work to the idea of having a nonprofit invest in these things. How do you flip that conversation around in the minds of people who write a check? As far as having the infrastructure to actually deliver value.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> The first thing that I do, I’m a huge fan of Dan Pallotta. His TED Talks should be mandatory watching material for every human being. In my book, and I took a smart-ass approach to it because that’s how I am, I invited business owners, and I did about three pages on this. I said, “Hey, I have this great opportunity for you. I would love for you to come work seven days a week, ten hours a day, and I’m not going to pay you. I want you to bring all of your employees with you. We’re not going to have a roof over our head. It will be cold while we’re working. But it will be okay because you will have that inner feeling that you’re changing the world. Don’t worry when your bills come, when your mortgage arrives in the mail. You just write, ‘I’m changing the world’ on it, and they will zero out your balance.” I went for about three pages. One of my beta readers stopped in the middle and didn’t like it. She got to the end and was like, “Nope, you needed every single bit of this.”</p> <p>It was about changing the mindset from both the business’s point of view and the nonprofit point of view. My founder actually waited to file the paperwork for the nonprofit because she didn’t want to spend that money on paperwork and business when she could be saving a life with it. We all have that attitude going in. You have to realize that it’s not self-sustaining. You’re not going to get far ahead. As Dan Pallotta talks about putting a marketing flyer on the laundromat wall for a bake sale, and you bring in $200, and everyone is doing a Snoopy dance, but when you actually put money into this intelligently and properly and not just throwing money around like many businesses probably do, but you actually invest in improving and in growing and in spreading that awareness. I think it’s just a mindset shift that businesses need to make, but nonprofits need to make first so they can help them.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It definitely is when you start talking about value. If you get someone who is working for a human services agency, they can talk a great deal about how they sit in front of people and how it’s important to move people from where they are to a better place, which is what an organization is set up for. When it comes to talking about value, that is something I think that nonprofit leaders need to have- That’s the other mind shift. They have to be able to talk about that and couch that in terms that are valuable to their supporters. It’s about finding out the right language to use. There is a process for each of them to get connected with one another. It’s a little different. Talk a little bit about the process the business goes to find a good project. Same thing for the nonprofit, and where you see the most common disconnects for each one of them when trying to get connected to the right people.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> I want to speak about value for a second. Then I will jump to that. There is that value that you need to communicate to the community, what we do for the community. There is also the value you inherently have as an organization to communicate to the business. We have these people following us. We have this space.</p> <p>When it comes to finding that partner, the best thing I have seen is once you’ve identified what you care about, there is a couple different ways that businesses can go about this. This is what I care about as the founder or CEO because I have this history with it. There is let me find out what my employees care about. There is also what makes sense for my business, my industry. If you are a restaurant, you might want to work with a food bank. If you’re a home builder, you might want to work with someone who provides housing for less fortunate people. There is always that match-up. That can go horribly wrong. Choose wisely.</p> <p>But then when it comes to choosing the actual nonprofit, this is why reputation is so important. There are people who will go out there and look at IRS records. You can spend half your life reviewing different nonprofits and seeing what their score is. Or you can just put it out to your people and say, “Hey, we are going to be supporting a nonprofit. Which ones do you like?” I think that’s honestly for me the best way to 1) spread the word early that you will be supporting a nonprofit, even before you start, so it gets the word out and gets people excited about it. 2) It gets people involved. They now have a say in what you’re going to do. You’re way more likely to go along with something if you have a say in it. 3) Learning that reputation. Who is actually good out there? Who is doing what they say? Who is messing around and not going to be around for very long? I think that’s the best way for a business to look.</p> <p>What was the other part of that question actually?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> How should that nonprofit look? What is the disconnect? What is the most common thing they overlook in their efforts to identify the best partners in the business world to work with?</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> From the nonprofit standpoint, your reputation as we’ve said is important before. Your reputation is important after. Collaborating with a business that has some shady practices, maybe they’re in an industry you don’t want to be associated with. We get so excited. We need the money. We need the funding. You will give us some money! Thank goodness. We don’t care who it comes from. But when you do create that collaboration, when you do work with a business, you are taking on their garbage. Let’s put that nicely. Really realizing what are those values that you want to continue upholding as an organization? What businesses fit those values, fit the industry, make sense, because the halo effect, that business is going to get something from you. You want to make sure that what you get from them isn’t just money and then damages your reputation.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One of the toughest sentences for a business or nonprofit to digest is “No.” That word is a full sentence. I don’t think a lot of people wrap their mind around that. There are times when that is the appropriate response. When you’re talking to either a business or a nonprofit, and that word comes up when you get that match, somebody says, “No,” how do you help people look at that? How do you help them have the proper perspective on that in these situations? Sometimes people shut down when they hear that word.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> You have to think about it like dating. Everybody that you go out with is not the right person for you. That’s okay. It doesn’t speak badly about you. Most of the time, it doesn’t speak badly about them. It’s just not a good fit. In the nonprofit world, we are so passionate about what we do, and we care so deeply about our cause that many of us will do it for free. However, not everybody cares about your cause. It’s hard to hear, but when I was just hitting the street asking for small donations from businesses, I started out my conversations after a while with, “Hey, are you an animal lover?” I’m not going to waste the next 10 minutes and my breath in the whole spiel of why we’re amazing and saving animals if you don’t care. Figuring out is that their cause, is that something that matters to them. If not, it’s going to be okay. You have to pick yourself up and move onto the next one.</p> <p>Same with the business aspect. Realizing that nonprofits are not just crawling around begging. They are building their own brand and reputation. Depending on what you do, it might be an industry they’re not wanting to connect with. Or it could be something you’re doing. It could even be what you’re offering. That’s one of the most difficult things that we run into from the nonprofit side is businesses approach us and say, “We want to give you this.” That is awesome, but we don’t need that. They want to bring 60 people down to have a wonderful volunteer event. That’s amazing, thank you. We literally with fire code can’t have 60 people in there. So it comes down to is it a good fit culture-wise, values-wise, but is it also a good fit? Do they want what you have? Do they need what you’re offering? If not, it’s nothing against you. It’s not just a good fit. It’s all in the mindset of can you accept that and move to the next organization? If not, you have to fix things on your end.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re singing the song that Russell sings. He has this point of clarity that we never really find out by listening what people are interested in and what their passion is, whether it’s board members or donors or corporate collaborations. I’m wondering, talk about the responsibilities on both sides. We get a sponsor. Great, boom. There is some responsibility because that is marketing money. We have to be careful when we make a pitch in nonprofits. The call to action has to go to a home page. There are some requirements there. A good example I refer to a lot is Viking Cruises on public television, Sunday nights with <em>Masterpiece Theatre</em>. They show a sizzle for more information. That is a clear demonstration of how sponsorship works for both sides.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> This was something I learned on the journey of writing the book. I had no idea. I was as guilty as organizations putting out, “Hey, go buy this because we will get something out of it.” It’s actually funny. I was reading <em>Cause Marketing for Dummies</em>. They mentioned an attorney in Las Vegas who specialized in cause marketing. One of my best friends is an attorney. After I got over the why would you need an attorney fantasy world, I reached out and actually was connected with him within a week. We sat down, and he told me all about this responsibility, which I don’t think small nonprofits understand. You cannot act as an advertiser for these businesses unless you want to kick off an UBIT (Unrelated Business Income Task). I’m not an attorney. I’m not a tax accountant. By all means, please find someone who knows more than I do. But it is realizing that you can’t be that advertising firm for a business no matter what they’re doing for you. I like how you put that, you can’t have the call to action.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When you do a call to action, it kicks in that dynamic. Russell knows more about it from the IRS. There are complete guidelines. You do present the brand, and they resonate. Viking Cruises is a great example. They are in the hour where when the people who can go on cruises are on TV. They show the boats and the great stuff, people having fun. There is some clear guidelines there. It shows that this business is supporting really high-quality entertainment on television and this nonprofit. To me, there is a win-win.</p> <p>Just as we’re talking, I thought of a fifth connection. There is what is called earned income, like an Amazon Smile account, or a grocery store that gives 5% to charities when you shop. Most companies have a residual, where they take money and make a donation to the charity. There is ways you can register. That is generated income. All of these have very strict rules around them. There are lots of reasons to have conversations in business. Why don’t charities have a conversation with business about any of these topics?</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> Honestly, I think it comes down to the perceived value of the nonprofit and their own perceived value, not thinking they have anything to offer. I go through all the different ways to do an inventory on your business and your nonprofit to see what you have to give, all of the things you mentioned and more. When you realize that value, you’re more likely to approach, to say, “Hey, we would like to work with a business. We know we can offer them” the brand, the audience, and even just saying, this is where those rules kick in, just saying, “Hey, thank you for the support to XYZ business. Check out their website and see how they’re helping us.” Putting that out there. Great, you gave us money, and moving on with your day.</p> <p>When you talk about responsibility of the nonprofit, I believe that one of the biggest responsibilities the nonprofit has is to educate the business. When you see these pin-up campaigns, the point of sale at a register, you go in, and if it’s active, the cashier is actually saying something to you, it’s like, “Would you like to support childhood cancer?” They’re dead. They’ve said it 4,000 times that day. They have no idea what the organization does. Instead of saying, “Oh, cool, you want to raise money for us? Great, go ahead. There is information on our website,” if you could take the time to, if you have a facility, give a tour. If you do not have a facility, talk to the employees and explain what it is you do, why it’s so important to the community you serve, and what their donation does so that they can have the conversation with a customer if they ask. But they can be excited about it. It’s not just Day of the Walking Dead there with zombies spouting out that same line time and time again. There is passion behind it. “You know what? If you do this, we get to help kids with cancer!” How cool is that? They have that fire in them.</p> <p>Turning it into not a partnership, but the attorney made it very clear that he can’t call it a partnership, or he pops out from somewhere and yells at you. When you collaborate with someone, you make it that true collaboration. Here’s what we do. Here’s how you get involved. Here’s why you’re important.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s a win-win situation.</p> <p><strong>Russell</strong> It is important. It is valuable to have that common language. The point of overwhelm for both sides is, Ok, we have to come up with this type of thing. We want to save X dollars on taxes. We want to raise X dollars. Then it’s throwing something against the wall to see what sticks. How important is it for them to be focused? What kind of steps can they take to identify organizations that are a better fit so that when they start prospecting, they are actually in a better position to get a Yes because they’ve done a little bit of homework?</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> I think one is identifying exactly what you need. If it’s $6 million, you’re either going to go to a lot of small businesses or shoot for a larger organization. If it is maybe just some donations that you need or some help, you need an accountant to come in, really identifying what it is you need before you approach anyone else. That’s a huge part.</p> <p>Respecting their guidelines. I learned this unfortunately very early. Some of the larger casinos and corporations don’t see the value in animals. They do wonderful things in the community, but they are strictly focused on human services and things that affect humans directly, like food, home issues. When I walked in there all excited to explain how animals are the best thing ever and rescuing them is amazing and how that impacts humans—anyone who has had an animal understands that—but it’s not within their guidelines. So if it is a larger organization, realizing that they might just not be focused on you. Beyond that, if they do have guidelines, checking those out. Also finding out where they have donated in the past. What do they care about? Where do they put their money? What do they expect in return? Is this a true collaboration where they are expecting marketing help? I almost want to back out of that statement. What are they expecting out of this pairing? That’s important.</p> <p>One of the other things, and this is why I focused on small businesses and small nonprofits with the book, is if you are a small nonprofit and you reach out to the largest business, the huge corporations, you’re not even on their radar. Unfortunately, they want to work with the large nonprofit. We see that even at the local level where they are the biggest nonprofit in town. They are who the businesses want to work with. Go with the small guys. If you’re a small guy, it’s okay to work with a small guy. It means more to both of you.</p> <p>I did one interview where she just kept saying, “If you want to go to the big corporation, who do you contact?” I was like, “You don’t want to do this.” Start out with a small business. Start out at the grassroots community level. You will get more attention, more help, and more funding for your time invested.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It is. What are some things that a small nonprofit needs to look out for? On the flip side, what are some things that a business needs to look out for when they are considering doing these types of collaborations?</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> Once you have done all of your homework, once you have researched their reputation in the community—and I can’t say that enough just how important it is to know who you’re dealing with and whether they are an amazing organization, nonprofit and for-profit organization, do other people see them that way? Unfortunately, it comes down to you can be the best organization on the planet, but if someone decided you weren’t and smeared your name, do you want to add that danger to the situation?</p> <p>Once you’ve done your homework and watched out for all those earning signs, trust your gut. It sounds trite to really rely on your emotions here. I know everybody is so numbers-focused. When you are getting into a situation, either as an individual or as an organization that you are not supposed to be getting into, when you look back on it six months, a year, six years later, you can go, “That didn’t feel right. The hair on the back of my neck was standing up.” You go that icky gut feeling, that feels professional. Look for the icky gut feeling. Pay attention. I think, and I’ve gotten into some situations like this in my business. When I look back and think about that first meeting and those first conversations, “That wasn’t good from day one.” You ignored it because you were excited about money coming your way. Do your homework, and trust your gut.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We tend to forget, especially in the nonprofit side, the touchpoints that are so important, not only with sponsorships, but donors. You want to update them with messages telling them what is happening. Like you talked about earlier, we are going around with our hand out all about the money. Well, it’s not. It’s about the impact of the results of our work. Everybody shares in that. Putting together a win-win, but also having somebody in the organization who is dedicated to that messaging, any of those types of connections. You want to stay in touch.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> I think that it’s something that a lot of organizations struggle with. Having somebody handle that, but also remembering. Saying “Thank you” is easy. Being grateful is very easy. Looking at this is how many lives were saved, these many children got shoes, and these many homeless people were fed or served. Whatever that may be, whatever that impact is, it’s not just the appreciation that keeps donors and businesses coming back to help over and over again. It’s knowing that they’ve actually made an impact. That’s a great point. I don’t even know if I addressed that in the book. It’s going in the second edition, courtesy of you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Also, you want to continue to focus on the value, and you want to keep that thread going. I was touched that you said that. It seems natural. We’re winding down this thoughtful interview. You mentioned Dan Pallotta. He has some good paradigm shifts. We tend to dumb down. His TED Talk is “The Way We Think About Charity is Dead Wrong.”</p> <p>*Sponsor message from SynerVision’s online community for community builders*</p> <p>Sheryl, what is your final thought? Is there a particular challenge or tip or thought that you would like to leave people with? Russell will close out this helpful interview.</p> <p><strong>Sheryl:</strong> Final thought. I think that working together, there is nothing that we can’t do. Without getting into any government stuff, there are a lot of problems out there that the government is not fixing. It’s up to the nonprofits and the for-profits to get together and find a way to make this world a better place. It might sound cheesy to put it that way, but we all have that responsibility. When we lean on each other and work together to make it better for everybody, that’s better for everybody. Oh, and spay and neuter your pets.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think Skittles will enjoy this interview. It is important. Thank you so much, Sheryl, for coming and sharing your wisdom with us. <em>Do Good to Do Better: A Small Business Guide to Growing Your Business by Helping Nonprofits.</em>This book will go on our list. 2020, we are going to have lists of books that nonprofit leaders should read that we will be highlighting. This book is one of them. There are other books. Another one is <em>Asking Rights</em> by Tom Ralser. These are books that can help get that conversation going so that we can collaborate to do more good in the community.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>How to Find Your Major Donors of the Future with Jay Frost</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-to-find-your-major-donors-of-the-future-with-jay-frost</link>
      <description>Jay Frost brings together people, ideas, and resources to fuel positive change in the world. He has worked with hundreds of organizations to identify and pursue billions in fundraising opportunities around the world. He has been recognized as one of America's Top 10 Fundraising Experts by Philanthropy Media, one of the Top Eight Fundraising Influencers by Elevation Media, one of the Top Thirteen Excellent Fundraising Consultants by Double the Donation, and one of the Top 100 Charity Influencers by Onalytica.
 A successful fundraising program is within the reach of any charitable organization. But it often takes a shift of perspective and One of the greatest challenges for every nonprofit is attracting individuals with the capacity to give a major gift. In "Power Prospecting,"Jay explores how to find the top wealth holders within your constituency, throughout your community, across the country and around the world. Whether you are embarking on a capital campaign or just trying to expand your private philanthropic support, this workshop will prepare you to identify people who can make your mission possible.
 More about Jay Frost at https://www.frostonfundraising.com/meet-jay
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 22 Dec 2019 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/75e241ce-b329-11eb-9f0f-bb21e52c0051/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Funding Your Nonprofit</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Jay Frost brings together people, ideas, and resources to fuel positive change in the world. He has worked with hundreds of organizations to identify and pursue billions in fundraising opportunities around the world. He has been recognized as one of America's Top 10 Fundraising Experts by Philanthropy Media, one of the Top Eight Fundraising Influencers by Elevation Media, one of the Top Thirteen Excellent Fundraising Consultants by Double the Donation, and one of the Top 100 Charity Influencers by Onalytica.
 A successful fundraising program is within the reach of any charitable organization. But it often takes a shift of perspective and One of the greatest challenges for every nonprofit is attracting individuals with the capacity to give a major gift. In "Power Prospecting,"Jay explores how to find the top wealth holders within your constituency, throughout your community, across the country and around the world. Whether you are embarking on a capital campaign or just trying to expand your private philanthropic support, this workshop will prepare you to identify people who can make your mission possible.
 More about Jay Frost at https://www.frostonfundraising.com/meet-jay
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Jay Frost</strong> brings together people, ideas, and resources to fuel positive change in the world. He has worked with hundreds of organizations to identify and pursue billions in fundraising opportunities around the world. He has been recognized as one of America's Top 10 Fundraising Experts by Philanthropy Media, one of the Top Eight Fundraising Influencers by Elevation Media, one of the Top Thirteen Excellent Fundraising Consultants by Double the Donation, and one of the Top 100 Charity Influencers by Onalytica.</p> <p>A successful fundraising program is within the reach of any charitable organization. But it often takes a shift of perspective and One of the greatest challenges for every nonprofit is attracting individuals with the capacity to give a major gift. In "Power Prospecting,"Jay explores how to find the top wealth holders within your constituency, throughout your community, across the country and around the world. Whether you are embarking on a capital campaign or just trying to expand your private philanthropic support, this workshop will prepare you to identify people who can make your mission possible.</p> <p>More about Jay Frost at <a href="https://www.frostonfundraising.com/meet-jay">https://www.frostonfundraising.com/meet-jay</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <title>Developing a Winning Brand for Your Nonprofit with Jawansa Hall</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/developing-a-winning-brand-for-your-nonprofit-with-jawansa-hall</link>
      <description>Jawansa Hall is the owner and Creative Director of Blackwater Branding in Lynchburg, Virginia.
 Blackwater Branding is an award-winning visual branding agency that designs for print, web and social mediaplatforms. We work closely with each client to create a digital experience that not only drives communication andinteraction, but also commerce and brand awareness.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 22 Dec 2019 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/75f42fd8-b329-11eb-9f0f-ebf259251577/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Jawansa Hall is the owner and Creative Director of Blackwater Branding in Lynchburg, Virginia. Blackwater Branding is an award-winning visual branding agency that designs for print, web and social mediaplatforms. We work closely with each client to...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Jawansa Hall is the owner and Creative Director of Blackwater Branding in Lynchburg, Virginia.
 Blackwater Branding is an award-winning visual branding agency that designs for print, web and social mediaplatforms. We work closely with each client to create a digital experience that not only drives communication andinteraction, but also commerce and brand awareness.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Jawansa Hall</strong> is the owner and Creative Director of Blackwater Branding in Lynchburg, Virginia.</p> <p>Blackwater Branding is an award-winning visual branding agency that designs for print, web and social mediaplatforms. We work closely with each client to create a digital experience that not only drives communication andinteraction, but also commerce and brand awareness.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3255</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <title>A Spotlight on SynerVision Leadership Foundation's Online Community for Community Builders</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/a-spotlight-on-synervision-leadership-foundations-online-community-for-community-builders</link>
      <description>A Spotlight on SynerVision Leadership Foundation's Online Community for Community Builders
 About Today's Episode:
 Today's episode is a little different. Rather than interview a nonprofit expert, founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, and host of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou shares some details about the online community for community builders. He discusses the details about all the resources and added value that nonprofit leaders get by joining this community.
  
 Read the Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. This is Hugh Ballou, founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. People don’t really know the word “SynerVision” because I made it up. I’m a musician. I’m a conductor. Conductors create community. We call this “ensemble,” whether it’s instrumental or vocal, it’s a choir or orchestra. It becomes an ensemble because we function together at a higher level. In our boards and our staff and our committees in the nonprofit world, which includes churches and synagogues, we create this higher functioning. It’s the synergy we create with a common vision. The synergy we create with a common vision is defined by SynerVision. As leaders, we are catalysts, we’re visionaries, we lead, we influence people, and we make things happen.
 For 32 years, I’ve been working with nonprofit leaders all over the place, on at least four continents and multiple countries. A lot of work in America. A lot of work with cause-based charities. People wanting to impact other people’s lives. I spent 40 years serving an organized church from 120-12,000-member churches. I’ve seen it from different perspectives and different sized organizations. I have worked exterior to multiple types of nonprofit organizations. Membership organizations, cause-based charities, and many others. We have a million and a half 501(c)3s in this country. What I do know, statistics show that half of the new nonprofits that are formed every year will close, some with money in the bank. They will close because they are not able to fulfill their mission.
 There are many reasons for this. More often than not, it’s one person with a cause, with a passion, with a fire; however, that person is unable to let that fire spread and build a sustainable legacy under that vision. We want to make sure that we’ve fully thought out the process, built a strategy, and built a team; therefore, we can be fundable and sustainable. You can create your legacy that can continue. SynerVision is the legacy I am creating that will continue the work after I’m gone.
 I want to share about the work of SynerVision. It’s for nonprofit leaders and clergy. Those of you making a difference leading an organization, one you founded, one you didn’t found, it doesn’t matter. You’re the person in charge of implementing the vision. You’re the person influencing others to make things happen. You’re the person that builds and maintains relationships so that you can lead, you can fund, and you have a communication system based on, yes, relationships.
 SynerVision is designed to provide high-quality resources for you working in the trenches, things that are going to help you get unblocked. Maybe you’re not blocked, but you’re not really hitting your stride. Maybe you have some money and have a staff, but if you got more funding, more staff, more focus, you can impact more people’s lives. It’s not about the money. The money is necessary to provide for people who do the work.
 It’s sort of like building a car. Once we build the car, we have to get the gas to make the car go. Therefore, money is an important commodity that we must have a replenishable supply because we do run out of gas. We have to refuel. In order to make that happen, there are lots of moving parts.
 My job is to equip, empower, and train nonprofit leaders to build boards, to build strategies, to build systems, to create funding, and to impact people’s lives more fully. To fully achieve the mission of the organization. Let me do a few terms, define a few terms at this point.
 In my world, as a strategist, I am a transformational leadership strategist. Transformational leadership is the culture of high performance. The leader leads the culture, sort of like a conductor leads the orchestra or a choir. We don’t play the notes. We enable other people to perform. We lead. We guide. We influence. The leader is the leader.
 In terms of strategy, we must know who we are, what we’re doing, what we stand for, who we serve. Our vision is that short statement that creates this mental picture of what we’re doing. SynerVision Leadership Foundation transforms organizations to impact people’s lives, building legacies. You doing okay, you say? Okay. Could you do better? Could you impact more people? Leaders at the top of their game impact more people. Leaders saying, “I’ve got it all. Don’t need any” are pretty dangerous. We need to stay out of people’s ways because we never learn it all. At 73, I am continuing to grow my skillset, my abilities every day. I encourage you to think about building the skillset.
 Define the terms of engagement. The vision is the concept. What are we? What defines what we do? Rise Against hunger, feeding people. Their vision is ending hunger in our lifetime. They didn’t limit it. Powerful vision. The mission statement is application. SynerVision does transform organizations and leaders, empowers them and engages them, equips leaders for service through leadership training, strategy, board development, funds resourcing. There are a lot of tools of the trade. Fundamentally, we guide you in creating your vision, your mission, your objectives, your funding strategy, your budget, and all the people parts of working an organization. We can have this piece of paper, a strategy, but without the people, it’s a piece of paper.
 Think of a conductor stepping on a podium, and they have this piece of paper in front of them with all these dots. We call that music. It’s a conductor’s score. Everything that happens is written in that piece of music. When you sit in front of your board, your staff, your committees, you have your road map. That is your strategic plan. SynerVision, we have created what we call a solution map. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there? It’s not a business plan. People can extract a business plan from this. That’s a simpler document. It’s a financial document that you give a major funder or your banker. The strategic plan, the solution map is a plan of operation. It’s an implementation document. Do this first. Do this next. Do this concurrently. Who does what and when, and how it all leads you toward manageable, quantifiable objectives.
 I’m talking about SynerVision Leadership Foundation. It’s a resource bank, specifically for those of us leading social benefit organizations, charities, religious institutions under the umbrella of nonprofit. IRS calls us a tax-exempt organization. It’s a for-purpose organization, not necessarily a for-profit organization. The flow of money is important. There are many regulations guiding how we utilize those funds, but we do have a pathway for good. We want to impact people’s lives. That’s why we exist.
 I’ve created this online resource. We’ve called it the community for community builders. If you are doing work of a charity, it’s governed, and financial guidelines are set by the board of directors. You may have founded it, but you don’t run it. The board of directors is in charge of the organization, not the day-to-day operations, but the governance. How you set policies, what do you approve, do you approve contracts, do you approve the budget. The board sets that strategy. The implementation is done by staff. That’s a clear delineation.
 Now having said that, I’ve worked within organizations that are in transition. If the board didn’t work, nothing would happen. The board must be engaged, must be active, must be donors, must be on committees, must be doing the work of the charity, guided by staff. The staff reports to the board. It’s a very good system. The executive director and the development/funding strategist are employed by the board. They serve at the pleasure of the board. They fulfill the strategy using the marketing plan, funding plan, strategic plan. They do the work of the organization and report through the president, the board chair to the board of directors. There is a clear definition of how this all works.
 We don’t have all this knowledge in our heads. We know what we know. We’re an expert at what we do. We have a passion. We have a vision for excellence. We are impacting nonprofits, empowering, engaging, raising their capacity for performance. We are connecting the dots from strategy to performance. Sounds like a conductor. We conduct the performer. We can do all the planning we need to create results because people are depending on us. We are called to a higher cause. This is the labor of our passion along with all those people who serve us as volunteers, staff, board members, committee chairs, committee members. The leader rallies that.
 This is all under the umbrella of how we build communities. We are building communities: your board, staff, volunteers, the people you serve. You are building communities of action. We turn apathy into excitement. We turn passive into active. We as leaders transform ideas into reality. We transform people’s lives by the work we do. We need support. It’s lonely work. We’re overworked. We’re underpaid. We have a lot of stress. There is a pathway forward for that. It depends on the leader constantly building their capacity to lead. Actually, the leader does less. Other people do more.
 I hear from folks who are burned out. “I have been willing to do what I ask other people to do.” Yes, that’s right. The key word is “willing.” You know how. You’re willing. However, there is somebody sitting around that board table who is very capable. If you do it, you’re robbing them of an opportunity to use their passion for good. That’s why they’re there. We must get out of the way. We create the system. We manage the system. We lead people. We don’t manage. We lead people. We inspire. We influence. That’s hard work. I don’t care what anybody says. It’s very difficult work. Actually, it’s more difficult in the nonprofit community than in the business community. It’s important work, and that’s our calling.
 I’ve created a private space to get people out of the toxic environment of today’s social media. It’s really bad. We get distracted. We find all kinds of harsh things happening there. We see things that we’re not proud of on social media. I’ve created our own community. It’s just for people like you. Just for people like you. it’s an online community for those of us building communities.
 In the South, we say none of us is as smart as all of us. That’s an important statement. We are the sum total of the people we hang around the most. Now, what happens if we hang around broke people? What if we hang around people who have failed at everything they do and have no initiative to learn from those experiences? How does that shape us? Sometimes, I’ve met people who want to hang around others that they perceive to be less qualified than themselves because it elevates them in other people’s eyes. Oh, you’re more important. You’re more successful. Turn that around. You want to be with people much more successful than yourself. In the community, you have the chance to do that. It’s a private community for those of us leading for-purpose work. It’s the SynerVision Leadership Community, a community for community builders.
 You can find it at nonprofitcommunity.org. NonprofitCommunity.org. Remember that? It’s pretty easy. NonprofitCommunity.org. It takes you to SynerVision. Blue button, “Join.” $40 a month will buy you a lot of stuff. Peace of mind. Stress reduction. It’s a network of people doing the work that can help you. You get a whole lot of goods. You can try it out for a dollar for the first month. If you like it, you can keep on.
 When you join the community for community builders, I give you a program that I sell for $97. You’re selling $100 almost. It’s the five pillars to success. It’s the five pillars in building a successful recurring income organization. We need to have all the pieces in place. You need all five of these. You can’t skip one. It cuts your ability by half if you just eliminate one. It’s the five pillars. Video, action guides. It’s a short course. It won’t take you a long time. You can do it all in one morning if you want. Download the program. Once you join, it’s free. That’s my gift to you as a joining bonus. There is also a report on building a profitable, sustainable nonprofit. It’s a read-only report. It’s not a video. Those two things will give you value. Plus you get a 50% discount—remember, you paid a dollar to get in here. You will get a 50% discount. One buckaroo to try this out for a month. Then it will go to the $40. You could go save $200-$500 on programs. Self-study programs that will make a difference.
 How about if somebody can help you find your blind spots? Those things that keep you hitting the wall. Those things that throw you off a cliff. Those things that get you stuck in the mud. You didn’t see them. They are making you stuck. Maybe you think you’re making progress. Your board and staff might think differently. You have no clue as to what’s missing. Those are blind spots. What do we know? What do we not know? What is it that we don’t know we don’t know? I don’t know it all. I hang around smart people. That’s the guide. Hang around people smarter than you. We have turned the consulting model around. It’s WayFinders. We guide the way. You know more about your work than we do. We have systems. We help you learn the systems that you can apply your knowledge to learning to running your organization that is so important to you, the world, and the people around you.
 Take off the stuff on your forehead that says, “I know all this.” No. No. We don’t know everything. We know some things. The more I learn, the less I realize that I actually know. There is so much. The best leaders I work with are constantly working on building their skills. That’s what I’ve learned. If you want to learn, make some mistakes. Those are learning opportunities. If you want to grow, hang around successful people. If you want to be the best, continue learning.
 We’re providing this community from SynerVision for you. You join. There are 400 articles about leadership. There is five years’ worth of magazines you can read: The Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine. Articles by wonderful people on many topics. When you join, you can get that magazine in your mailbox four times a year.
 You have curriculum. There is a forum on topics. As you’re in there, you’ll get to weigh in on what topics are important to you. 24/7, you have access to all of this.
 One day a week, it’s office hours. I show up. Hugh and people who are influencer members for Q&amp;As. What about this? What about that? It’s guided through the curriculum of the online program, Unbound Leader, which you get at a 50% discount. Topic-based conversations guiding your learning, helping you figure out how to apply the knowledge. Getting contacts all over the country from others who are in this learning covenant along with you. Once a week, once a month, whenever you like, you can chime in. It’s video. We see you, and you see us. Or you can just listen to others. Many times, we learn more just by listening to others ask questions that we may not have ever thought about asking. So the online community for community builders has lots of great value.
 I am encouraging you to try it out. You’re risking a dollar. There is no refund option. It’s a dollar. You will get a whole lot more value the first 30 seconds you’re there, and you continue receiving value. The more we build critical mass, the more good people who are there, the more content we share, the more we learn, the more we grow, the more we network, learning how to collaborate with others who could benefit us.
 This is The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s one of the programs we have offered for four and a half years now in the community for community builders. You will have access to interviews with wonderful leaders, with wonderful knowledge, with great ideas. Every interview has a transcript. You get to read the transcript. You get to listen. You get to watch the video. Choose the topics, find the ones you like the most. Grab it. It’s yours. There are those kinds of assets in there. And the forums and live Q&amp;As. When you talk to others in the trenches.
 The Meyer Foundation discovered that 45% of nonprofit leaders were leaving because of burnout. The #1 problem. The #2 problem: low revenue. #3: low functioning board. Those are the high ones. But the Meyer Foundation did that discovery that 45% of nonprofit leaders were leaving, done, were burned out because we don’t know how to delegate, we don’t know how to say no, we don’t know how to sequence our work so that it’s actually doable. It’s not as easy as falling off a log. There is some work to getting it there. There is hope. There is a pathway. There is a process. We have assets. You don’t need to copy everything, but there is a template. Here are ideas. Here is how it’s normally done. Take the ideas, and make it your own system.
 Remember, I’m not a consultant who tells you what to do. I’m a WayFinder who guides you on the pathway of learning your own processes, building your skills, and creating your own outcomes. There is a huge difference in self-sufficiency. That is the title of that report that you get is Self-Sufficiency. You can get the free program, mini course, five pillars of success. You have to build those pillars. A self-sustainability report on thinking through how you are going to be self-sustainable so that you’re not waking up every day trying to think of where money is coming from today. You should have two years of salary in the bank. You should have operational money in the bank. You should have money in a foundation, endowment fund that pays interest that is part of your revenue generation. Earned interest on money you have in your bank that has been donated. Those resources are in the community for community builders.
 NonprofitCommunity.org will take you there. Click on the blue button, “Join.” It’s time to quit wasting time. It’s time to make a decision. Good leaders make a decision.
 Some people listening to this will not make a decision. 97/100 people will not make a decision. They’ll say, “That’s interesting. I will figure it out myself.” You probably will. We can help you shorten that timeline, go way more directly toward the targets, the success, and the results that you want to see. It’s investing in the future. You can certainly figure it out. We are here to help you do it in a shorter time frame and with more sustainable large results. I’m inviting you to go to NonprofitCommunity.org. Hit the Join button for a dollar. Boom, you’re in. Look around. There is a place to register for the Thursdays at 3 Eastern. We will expand that to when can you meet. Is there a better time than that? Let’s get started. Time’s a-wastin’. Opportunity is whizzing by our faces because we need to learn more to be able to seize those opportunities.
 I will tell you. Standing here, speaking to you today, I have made all of the mistakes conceivable. I have learned from those mistakes, and I have created programs because of those mistakes and because of the problems I see others encountering. I have gone backwards from the negative result to what to do about it.
 I am streaming live on Facebook to catch more people. It’s TheNonprofitExchange.org. Every week, 2:00, we broadcast with some expert telling us something we wish we’d known all along, or we would have been more successful had we known it. TheNonprofitExchange.org takes you to the page where the current and the future episodes are, and four years’ worth of archives. Very valuable resources indeed.
 Today’s version of The Nonprofit Exchange is to talk about the SynerVision online community for community builders, and to let you know there is a chance to check it out for a dollar. Go in, try it. NonprofitCommunity.org. That’s where you go. We’ll see you on one of those weekly Q&amp;A sessions because even if you don’t know what to ask, there is a question in your mind. How do we formulate those questions and find the answer that is right for you? it will be different for each one of you. We need to know how to arrive at that answer, what that answer will mean for the health of the organization, and what is the pathway forward to implementing that strategy from the answer.
 This is Hugh Ballou, the founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation saying thank you for being here.
 *Sponsor message from EZCard*
 Thank you for being here. Thank you for clicking on the online community for community builders. We have resources we have created just for you. They are not way expensive. Some are free. A lot is free. Many are very low-cost. Many will impact your future because they are things that you will learn that you didn’t know before. I am going to sign off on this episode. Thank you for being here. We will see you next week on The Nonprofit Exchange.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 08 Dec 2019 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/760c1a94-b329-11eb-9f0f-b7e7a4a507e7/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>With Founder and President, Hugh Ballou</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>A Spotlight on SynerVision Leadership Foundation's Online Community for Community Builders
 About Today's Episode:
 Today's episode is a little different. Rather than interview a nonprofit expert, founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, and host of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou shares some details about the online community for community builders. He discusses the details about all the resources and added value that nonprofit leaders get by joining this community.
  
 Read the Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. This is Hugh Ballou, founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. People don’t really know the word “SynerVision” because I made it up. I’m a musician. I’m a conductor. Conductors create community. We call this “ensemble,” whether it’s instrumental or vocal, it’s a choir or orchestra. It becomes an ensemble because we function together at a higher level. In our boards and our staff and our committees in the nonprofit world, which includes churches and synagogues, we create this higher functioning. It’s the synergy we create with a common vision. The synergy we create with a common vision is defined by SynerVision. As leaders, we are catalysts, we’re visionaries, we lead, we influence people, and we make things happen.
 For 32 years, I’ve been working with nonprofit leaders all over the place, on at least four continents and multiple countries. A lot of work in America. A lot of work with cause-based charities. People wanting to impact other people’s lives. I spent 40 years serving an organized church from 120-12,000-member churches. I’ve seen it from different perspectives and different sized organizations. I have worked exterior to multiple types of nonprofit organizations. Membership organizations, cause-based charities, and many others. We have a million and a half 501(c)3s in this country. What I do know, statistics show that half of the new nonprofits that are formed every year will close, some with money in the bank. They will close because they are not able to fulfill their mission.
 There are many reasons for this. More often than not, it’s one person with a cause, with a passion, with a fire; however, that person is unable to let that fire spread and build a sustainable legacy under that vision. We want to make sure that we’ve fully thought out the process, built a strategy, and built a team; therefore, we can be fundable and sustainable. You can create your legacy that can continue. SynerVision is the legacy I am creating that will continue the work after I’m gone.
 I want to share about the work of SynerVision. It’s for nonprofit leaders and clergy. Those of you making a difference leading an organization, one you founded, one you didn’t found, it doesn’t matter. You’re the person in charge of implementing the vision. You’re the person influencing others to make things happen. You’re the person that builds and maintains relationships so that you can lead, you can fund, and you have a communication system based on, yes, relationships.
 SynerVision is designed to provide high-quality resources for you working in the trenches, things that are going to help you get unblocked. Maybe you’re not blocked, but you’re not really hitting your stride. Maybe you have some money and have a staff, but if you got more funding, more staff, more focus, you can impact more people’s lives. It’s not about the money. The money is necessary to provide for people who do the work.
 It’s sort of like building a car. Once we build the car, we have to get the gas to make the car go. Therefore, money is an important commodity that we must have a replenishable supply because we do run out of gas. We have to refuel. In order to make that happen, there are lots of moving parts.
 My job is to equip, empower, and train nonprofit leaders to build boards, to build strategies, to build systems, to create funding, and to impact people’s lives more fully. To fully achieve the mission of the organization. Let me do a few terms, define a few terms at this point.
 In my world, as a strategist, I am a transformational leadership strategist. Transformational leadership is the culture of high performance. The leader leads the culture, sort of like a conductor leads the orchestra or a choir. We don’t play the notes. We enable other people to perform. We lead. We guide. We influence. The leader is the leader.
 In terms of strategy, we must know who we are, what we’re doing, what we stand for, who we serve. Our vision is that short statement that creates this mental picture of what we’re doing. SynerVision Leadership Foundation transforms organizations to impact people’s lives, building legacies. You doing okay, you say? Okay. Could you do better? Could you impact more people? Leaders at the top of their game impact more people. Leaders saying, “I’ve got it all. Don’t need any” are pretty dangerous. We need to stay out of people’s ways because we never learn it all. At 73, I am continuing to grow my skillset, my abilities every day. I encourage you to think about building the skillset.
 Define the terms of engagement. The vision is the concept. What are we? What defines what we do? Rise Against hunger, feeding people. Their vision is ending hunger in our lifetime. They didn’t limit it. Powerful vision. The mission statement is application. SynerVision does transform organizations and leaders, empowers them and engages them, equips leaders for service through leadership training, strategy, board development, funds resourcing. There are a lot of tools of the trade. Fundamentally, we guide you in creating your vision, your mission, your objectives, your funding strategy, your budget, and all the people parts of working an organization. We can have this piece of paper, a strategy, but without the people, it’s a piece of paper.
 Think of a conductor stepping on a podium, and they have this piece of paper in front of them with all these dots. We call that music. It’s a conductor’s score. Everything that happens is written in that piece of music. When you sit in front of your board, your staff, your committees, you have your road map. That is your strategic plan. SynerVision, we have created what we call a solution map. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there? It’s not a business plan. People can extract a business plan from this. That’s a simpler document. It’s a financial document that you give a major funder or your banker. The strategic plan, the solution map is a plan of operation. It’s an implementation document. Do this first. Do this next. Do this concurrently. Who does what and when, and how it all leads you toward manageable, quantifiable objectives.
 I’m talking about SynerVision Leadership Foundation. It’s a resource bank, specifically for those of us leading social benefit organizations, charities, religious institutions under the umbrella of nonprofit. IRS calls us a tax-exempt organization. It’s a for-purpose organization, not necessarily a for-profit organization. The flow of money is important. There are many regulations guiding how we utilize those funds, but we do have a pathway for good. We want to impact people’s lives. That’s why we exist.
 I’ve created this online resource. We’ve called it the community for community builders. If you are doing work of a charity, it’s governed, and financial guidelines are set by the board of directors. You may have founded it, but you don’t run it. The board of directors is in charge of the organization, not the day-to-day operations, but the governance. How you set policies, what do you approve, do you approve contracts, do you approve the budget. The board sets that strategy. The implementation is done by staff. That’s a clear delineation.
 Now having said that, I’ve worked within organizations that are in transition. If the board didn’t work, nothing would happen. The board must be engaged, must be active, must be donors, must be on committees, must be doing the work of the charity, guided by staff. The staff reports to the board. It’s a very good system. The executive director and the development/funding strategist are employed by the board. They serve at the pleasure of the board. They fulfill the strategy using the marketing plan, funding plan, strategic plan. They do the work of the organization and report through the president, the board chair to the board of directors. There is a clear definition of how this all works.
 We don’t have all this knowledge in our heads. We know what we know. We’re an expert at what we do. We have a passion. We have a vision for excellence. We are impacting nonprofits, empowering, engaging, raising their capacity for performance. We are connecting the dots from strategy to performance. Sounds like a conductor. We conduct the performer. We can do all the planning we need to create results because people are depending on us. We are called to a higher cause. This is the labor of our passion along with all those people who serve us as volunteers, staff, board members, committee chairs, committee members. The leader rallies that.
 This is all under the umbrella of how we build communities. We are building communities: your board, staff, volunteers, the people you serve. You are building communities of action. We turn apathy into excitement. We turn passive into active. We as leaders transform ideas into reality. We transform people’s lives by the work we do. We need support. It’s lonely work. We’re overworked. We’re underpaid. We have a lot of stress. There is a pathway forward for that. It depends on the leader constantly building their capacity to lead. Actually, the leader does less. Other people do more.
 I hear from folks who are burned out. “I have been willing to do what I ask other people to do.” Yes, that’s right. The key word is “willing.” You know how. You’re willing. However, there is somebody sitting around that board table who is very capable. If you do it, you’re robbing them of an opportunity to use their passion for good. That’s why they’re there. We must get out of the way. We create the system. We manage the system. We lead people. We don’t manage. We lead people. We inspire. We influence. That’s hard work. I don’t care what anybody says. It’s very difficult work. Actually, it’s more difficult in the nonprofit community than in the business community. It’s important work, and that’s our calling.
 I’ve created a private space to get people out of the toxic environment of today’s social media. It’s really bad. We get distracted. We find all kinds of harsh things happening there. We see things that we’re not proud of on social media. I’ve created our own community. It’s just for people like you. Just for people like you. it’s an online community for those of us building communities.
 In the South, we say none of us is as smart as all of us. That’s an important statement. We are the sum total of the people we hang around the most. Now, what happens if we hang around broke people? What if we hang around people who have failed at everything they do and have no initiative to learn from those experiences? How does that shape us? Sometimes, I’ve met people who want to hang around others that they perceive to be less qualified than themselves because it elevates them in other people’s eyes. Oh, you’re more important. You’re more successful. Turn that around. You want to be with people much more successful than yourself. In the community, you have the chance to do that. It’s a private community for those of us leading for-purpose work. It’s the SynerVision Leadership Community, a community for community builders.
 You can find it at nonprofitcommunity.org. NonprofitCommunity.org. Remember that? It’s pretty easy. NonprofitCommunity.org. It takes you to SynerVision. Blue button, “Join.” $40 a month will buy you a lot of stuff. Peace of mind. Stress reduction. It’s a network of people doing the work that can help you. You get a whole lot of goods. You can try it out for a dollar for the first month. If you like it, you can keep on.
 When you join the community for community builders, I give you a program that I sell for $97. You’re selling $100 almost. It’s the five pillars to success. It’s the five pillars in building a successful recurring income organization. We need to have all the pieces in place. You need all five of these. You can’t skip one. It cuts your ability by half if you just eliminate one. It’s the five pillars. Video, action guides. It’s a short course. It won’t take you a long time. You can do it all in one morning if you want. Download the program. Once you join, it’s free. That’s my gift to you as a joining bonus. There is also a report on building a profitable, sustainable nonprofit. It’s a read-only report. It’s not a video. Those two things will give you value. Plus you get a 50% discount—remember, you paid a dollar to get in here. You will get a 50% discount. One buckaroo to try this out for a month. Then it will go to the $40. You could go save $200-$500 on programs. Self-study programs that will make a difference.
 How about if somebody can help you find your blind spots? Those things that keep you hitting the wall. Those things that throw you off a cliff. Those things that get you stuck in the mud. You didn’t see them. They are making you stuck. Maybe you think you’re making progress. Your board and staff might think differently. You have no clue as to what’s missing. Those are blind spots. What do we know? What do we not know? What is it that we don’t know we don’t know? I don’t know it all. I hang around smart people. That’s the guide. Hang around people smarter than you. We have turned the consulting model around. It’s WayFinders. We guide the way. You know more about your work than we do. We have systems. We help you learn the systems that you can apply your knowledge to learning to running your organization that is so important to you, the world, and the people around you.
 Take off the stuff on your forehead that says, “I know all this.” No. No. We don’t know everything. We know some things. The more I learn, the less I realize that I actually know. There is so much. The best leaders I work with are constantly working on building their skills. That’s what I’ve learned. If you want to learn, make some mistakes. Those are learning opportunities. If you want to grow, hang around successful people. If you want to be the best, continue learning.
 We’re providing this community from SynerVision for you. You join. There are 400 articles about leadership. There is five years’ worth of magazines you can read: The Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine. Articles by wonderful people on many topics. When you join, you can get that magazine in your mailbox four times a year.
 You have curriculum. There is a forum on topics. As you’re in there, you’ll get to weigh in on what topics are important to you. 24/7, you have access to all of this.
 One day a week, it’s office hours. I show up. Hugh and people who are influencer members for Q&amp;As. What about this? What about that? It’s guided through the curriculum of the online program, Unbound Leader, which you get at a 50% discount. Topic-based conversations guiding your learning, helping you figure out how to apply the knowledge. Getting contacts all over the country from others who are in this learning covenant along with you. Once a week, once a month, whenever you like, you can chime in. It’s video. We see you, and you see us. Or you can just listen to others. Many times, we learn more just by listening to others ask questions that we may not have ever thought about asking. So the online community for community builders has lots of great value.
 I am encouraging you to try it out. You’re risking a dollar. There is no refund option. It’s a dollar. You will get a whole lot more value the first 30 seconds you’re there, and you continue receiving value. The more we build critical mass, the more good people who are there, the more content we share, the more we learn, the more we grow, the more we network, learning how to collaborate with others who could benefit us.
 This is The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s one of the programs we have offered for four and a half years now in the community for community builders. You will have access to interviews with wonderful leaders, with wonderful knowledge, with great ideas. Every interview has a transcript. You get to read the transcript. You get to listen. You get to watch the video. Choose the topics, find the ones you like the most. Grab it. It’s yours. There are those kinds of assets in there. And the forums and live Q&amp;As. When you talk to others in the trenches.
 The Meyer Foundation discovered that 45% of nonprofit leaders were leaving because of burnout. The #1 problem. The #2 problem: low revenue. #3: low functioning board. Those are the high ones. But the Meyer Foundation did that discovery that 45% of nonprofit leaders were leaving, done, were burned out because we don’t know how to delegate, we don’t know how to say no, we don’t know how to sequence our work so that it’s actually doable. It’s not as easy as falling off a log. There is some work to getting it there. There is hope. There is a pathway. There is a process. We have assets. You don’t need to copy everything, but there is a template. Here are ideas. Here is how it’s normally done. Take the ideas, and make it your own system.
 Remember, I’m not a consultant who tells you what to do. I’m a WayFinder who guides you on the pathway of learning your own processes, building your skills, and creating your own outcomes. There is a huge difference in self-sufficiency. That is the title of that report that you get is Self-Sufficiency. You can get the free program, mini course, five pillars of success. You have to build those pillars. A self-sustainability report on thinking through how you are going to be self-sustainable so that you’re not waking up every day trying to think of where money is coming from today. You should have two years of salary in the bank. You should have operational money in the bank. You should have money in a foundation, endowment fund that pays interest that is part of your revenue generation. Earned interest on money you have in your bank that has been donated. Those resources are in the community for community builders.
 NonprofitCommunity.org will take you there. Click on the blue button, “Join.” It’s time to quit wasting time. It’s time to make a decision. Good leaders make a decision.
 Some people listening to this will not make a decision. 97/100 people will not make a decision. They’ll say, “That’s interesting. I will figure it out myself.” You probably will. We can help you shorten that timeline, go way more directly toward the targets, the success, and the results that you want to see. It’s investing in the future. You can certainly figure it out. We are here to help you do it in a shorter time frame and with more sustainable large results. I’m inviting you to go to NonprofitCommunity.org. Hit the Join button for a dollar. Boom, you’re in. Look around. There is a place to register for the Thursdays at 3 Eastern. We will expand that to when can you meet. Is there a better time than that? Let’s get started. Time’s a-wastin’. Opportunity is whizzing by our faces because we need to learn more to be able to seize those opportunities.
 I will tell you. Standing here, speaking to you today, I have made all of the mistakes conceivable. I have learned from those mistakes, and I have created programs because of those mistakes and because of the problems I see others encountering. I have gone backwards from the negative result to what to do about it.
 I am streaming live on Facebook to catch more people. It’s TheNonprofitExchange.org. Every week, 2:00, we broadcast with some expert telling us something we wish we’d known all along, or we would have been more successful had we known it. TheNonprofitExchange.org takes you to the page where the current and the future episodes are, and four years’ worth of archives. Very valuable resources indeed.
 Today’s version of The Nonprofit Exchange is to talk about the SynerVision online community for community builders, and to let you know there is a chance to check it out for a dollar. Go in, try it. NonprofitCommunity.org. That’s where you go. We’ll see you on one of those weekly Q&amp;A sessions because even if you don’t know what to ask, there is a question in your mind. How do we formulate those questions and find the answer that is right for you? it will be different for each one of you. We need to know how to arrive at that answer, what that answer will mean for the health of the organization, and what is the pathway forward to implementing that strategy from the answer.
 This is Hugh Ballou, the founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation saying thank you for being here.
 *Sponsor message from EZCard*
 Thank you for being here. Thank you for clicking on the online community for community builders. We have resources we have created just for you. They are not way expensive. Some are free. A lot is free. Many are very low-cost. Many will impact your future because they are things that you will learn that you didn’t know before. I am going to sign off on this episode. Thank you for being here. We will see you next week on The Nonprofit Exchange.
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>A Spotlight on SynerVision Leadership Foundation's Online Community for Community Builders</strong></h1> <p><strong>About Today's Episode:</strong></p> <p>Today's episode is a little different. Rather than interview a nonprofit expert, founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, and host of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange,</em> Hugh Ballou shares some details about the online community for community builders. He discusses the details about all the resources and added value that nonprofit leaders get by joining this community.</p> <p> </p> Read the Transcript <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> This is Hugh Ballou, founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. People don’t really know the word “SynerVision” because I made it up. I’m a musician. I’m a conductor. Conductors create community. We call this “ensemble,” whether it’s instrumental or vocal, it’s a choir or orchestra. It becomes an ensemble because we function together at a higher level. In our boards and our staff and our committees in the nonprofit world, which includes churches and synagogues, we create this higher functioning. It’s the synergy we create with a common vision. The synergy we create with a common vision is defined by SynerVision. As leaders, we are catalysts, we’re visionaries, we lead, we influence people, and we make things happen.</p> <p>For 32 years, I’ve been working with nonprofit leaders all over the place, on at least four continents and multiple countries. A lot of work in America. A lot of work with cause-based charities. People wanting to impact other people’s lives. I spent 40 years serving an organized church from 120-12,000-member churches. I’ve seen it from different perspectives and different sized organizations. I have worked exterior to multiple types of nonprofit organizations. Membership organizations, cause-based charities, and many others. We have a million and a half 501(c)3s in this country. What I do know, statistics show that half of the new nonprofits that are formed every year will close, some with money in the bank. They will close because they are not able to fulfill their mission.</p> <p>There are many reasons for this. More often than not, it’s one person with a cause, with a passion, with a fire; however, that person is unable to let that fire spread and build a sustainable legacy under that vision. We want to make sure that we’ve fully thought out the process, built a strategy, and built a team; therefore, we can be fundable and sustainable. You can create your legacy that can continue. SynerVision is the legacy I am creating that will continue the work after I’m gone.</p> <p>I want to share about the work of SynerVision. It’s for nonprofit leaders and clergy. Those of you making a difference leading an organization, one you founded, one you didn’t found, it doesn’t matter. You’re the person in charge of implementing the vision. You’re the person influencing others to make things happen. You’re the person that builds and maintains relationships so that you can lead, you can fund, and you have a communication system based on, yes, relationships.</p> <p>SynerVision is designed to provide high-quality resources for you working in the trenches, things that are going to help you get unblocked. Maybe you’re not blocked, but you’re not really hitting your stride. Maybe you have some money and have a staff, but if you got more funding, more staff, more focus, you can impact more people’s lives. It’s not about the money. The money is necessary to provide for people who do the work.</p> <p>It’s sort of like building a car. Once we build the car, we have to get the gas to make the car go. Therefore, money is an important commodity that we must have a replenishable supply because we do run out of gas. We have to refuel. In order to make that happen, there are lots of moving parts.</p> <p>My job is to equip, empower, and train nonprofit leaders to build boards, to build strategies, to build systems, to create funding, and to impact people’s lives more fully. To fully achieve the mission of the organization. Let me do a few terms, define a few terms at this point.</p> <p>In my world, as a strategist, I am a transformational leadership strategist. Transformational leadership is the culture of high performance. The leader leads the culture, sort of like a conductor leads the orchestra or a choir. We don’t play the notes. We enable other people to perform. We lead. We guide. We influence. The leader is the leader.</p> <p>In terms of strategy, we must know who we are, what we’re doing, what we stand for, who we serve. Our vision is that short statement that creates this mental picture of what we’re doing. SynerVision Leadership Foundation transforms organizations to impact people’s lives, building legacies. You doing okay, you say? Okay. Could you do better? Could you impact more people? Leaders at the top of their game impact more people. Leaders saying, “I’ve got it all. Don’t need any” are pretty dangerous. We need to stay out of people’s ways because we never learn it all. At 73, I am continuing to grow my skillset, my abilities every day. I encourage you to think about building the skillset.</p> <p>Define the terms of engagement. The vision is the concept. What are we? What defines what we do? Rise Against hunger, feeding people. Their vision is ending hunger in our lifetime. They didn’t limit it. Powerful vision. The mission statement is application. SynerVision does transform organizations and leaders, empowers them and engages them, equips leaders for service through leadership training, strategy, board development, funds resourcing. There are a lot of tools of the trade. Fundamentally, we guide you in creating your vision, your mission, your objectives, your funding strategy, your budget, and all the people parts of working an organization. We can have this piece of paper, a strategy, but without the people, it’s a piece of paper.</p> <p>Think of a conductor stepping on a podium, and they have this piece of paper in front of them with all these dots. We call that music. It’s a conductor’s score. Everything that happens is written in that piece of music. When you sit in front of your board, your staff, your committees, you have your road map. That is your strategic plan. SynerVision, we have created what we call a solution map. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there? It’s not a business plan. People can extract a business plan from this. That’s a simpler document. It’s a financial document that you give a major funder or your banker. The strategic plan, the solution map is a plan of operation. It’s an implementation document. Do this first. Do this next. Do this concurrently. Who does what and when, and how it all leads you toward manageable, quantifiable objectives.</p> <p>I’m talking about SynerVision Leadership Foundation. It’s a resource bank, specifically for those of us leading social benefit organizations, charities, religious institutions under the umbrella of nonprofit. IRS calls us a tax-exempt organization. It’s a for-purpose organization, not necessarily a for-profit organization. The flow of money is important. There are many regulations guiding how we utilize those funds, but we do have a pathway for good. We want to impact people’s lives. That’s why we exist.</p> <p>I’ve created this online resource. We’ve called it the community for community builders. If you are doing work of a charity, it’s governed, and financial guidelines are set by the board of directors. You may have founded it, but you don’t run it. The board of directors is in charge of the organization, not the day-to-day operations, but the governance. How you set policies, what do you approve, do you approve contracts, do you approve the budget. The board sets that strategy. The implementation is done by staff. That’s a clear delineation.</p> <p>Now having said that, I’ve worked within organizations that are in transition. If the board didn’t work, nothing would happen. The board must be engaged, must be active, must be donors, must be on committees, must be doing the work of the charity, guided by staff. The staff reports to the board. It’s a very good system. The executive director and the development/funding strategist are employed by the board. They serve at the pleasure of the board. They fulfill the strategy using the marketing plan, funding plan, strategic plan. They do the work of the organization and report through the president, the board chair to the board of directors. There is a clear definition of how this all works.</p> <p>We don’t have all this knowledge in our heads. We know what we know. We’re an expert at what we do. We have a passion. We have a vision for excellence. We are impacting nonprofits, empowering, engaging, raising their capacity for performance. We are connecting the dots from strategy to performance. Sounds like a conductor. We conduct the performer. We can do all the planning we need to create results because people are depending on us. We are called to a higher cause. This is the labor of our passion along with all those people who serve us as volunteers, staff, board members, committee chairs, committee members. The leader rallies that.</p> <p>This is all under the umbrella of how we build communities. We are building communities: your board, staff, volunteers, the people you serve. You are building communities of action. We turn apathy into excitement. We turn passive into active. We as leaders transform ideas into reality. We transform people’s lives by the work we do. We need support. It’s lonely work. We’re overworked. We’re underpaid. We have a lot of stress. There is a pathway forward for that. It depends on the leader constantly building their capacity to lead. Actually, the leader does less. Other people do more.</p> <p>I hear from folks who are burned out. “I have been willing to do what I ask other people to do.” Yes, that’s right. The key word is “willing.” You know how. You’re willing. However, there is somebody sitting around that board table who is very capable. If you do it, you’re robbing them of an opportunity to use their passion for good. That’s why they’re there. We must get out of the way. We create the system. We manage the system. We lead people. We don’t manage. We lead people. We inspire. We influence. That’s hard work. I don’t care what anybody says. It’s very difficult work. Actually, it’s more difficult in the nonprofit community than in the business community. It’s important work, and that’s our calling.</p> <p>I’ve created a private space to get people out of the toxic environment of today’s social media. It’s really bad. We get distracted. We find all kinds of harsh things happening there. We see things that we’re not proud of on social media. I’ve created our own community. It’s just for people like you. Just for people like you. it’s an online community for those of us building communities.</p> <p>In the South, we say none of us is as smart as all of us. That’s an important statement. We are the sum total of the people we hang around the most. Now, what happens if we hang around broke people? What if we hang around people who have failed at everything they do and have no initiative to learn from those experiences? How does that shape us? Sometimes, I’ve met people who want to hang around others that they perceive to be less qualified than themselves because it elevates them in other people’s eyes. Oh, you’re more important. You’re more successful. Turn that around. You want to be with people much more successful than yourself. In the community, you have the chance to do that. It’s a private community for those of us leading for-purpose work. It’s the SynerVision Leadership Community, a community for community builders.</p> <p>You can find it at nonprofitcommunity.org. NonprofitCommunity.org. Remember that? It’s pretty easy. NonprofitCommunity.org. It takes you to SynerVision. Blue button, “Join.” $40 a month will buy you a lot of stuff. Peace of mind. Stress reduction. It’s a network of people doing the work that can help you. You get a whole lot of goods. You can try it out for a dollar for the first month. If you like it, you can keep on.</p> <p>When you join the community for community builders, I give you a program that I sell for $97. You’re selling $100 almost. It’s the five pillars to success. It’s the five pillars in building a successful recurring income organization. We need to have all the pieces in place. You need all five of these. You can’t skip one. It cuts your ability by half if you just eliminate one. It’s the five pillars. Video, action guides. It’s a short course. It won’t take you a long time. You can do it all in one morning if you want. Download the program. Once you join, it’s free. That’s my gift to you as a joining bonus. There is also a report on building a profitable, sustainable nonprofit. It’s a read-only report. It’s not a video. Those two things will give you value. Plus you get a 50% discount—remember, you paid a dollar to get in here. You will get a 50% discount. One buckaroo to try this out for a month. Then it will go to the $40. You could go save $200-$500 on programs. Self-study programs that will make a difference.</p> <p>How about if somebody can help you find your blind spots? Those things that keep you hitting the wall. Those things that throw you off a cliff. Those things that get you stuck in the mud. You didn’t see them. They are making you stuck. Maybe you think you’re making progress. Your board and staff might think differently. You have no clue as to what’s missing. Those are blind spots. What do we know? What do we not know? What is it that we don’t know we don’t know? I don’t know it all. I hang around smart people. That’s the guide. Hang around people smarter than you. We have turned the consulting model around. It’s WayFinders. We guide the way. You know more about your work than we do. We have systems. We help you learn the systems that you can apply your knowledge to learning to running your organization that is so important to you, the world, and the people around you.</p> <p>Take off the stuff on your forehead that says, “I know all this.” No. No. We don’t know everything. We know some things. The more I learn, the less I realize that I actually know. There is so much. The best leaders I work with are constantly working on building their skills. That’s what I’ve learned. If you want to learn, make some mistakes. Those are learning opportunities. If you want to grow, hang around successful people. If you want to be the best, continue learning.</p> <p>We’re providing this community from SynerVision for you. You join. There are 400 articles about leadership. There is five years’ worth of magazines you can read: <em>The Nonprofit Performance 360</em> Magazine. Articles by wonderful people on many topics. When you join, you can get that magazine in your mailbox four times a year.</p> <p>You have curriculum. There is a forum on topics. As you’re in there, you’ll get to weigh in on what topics are important to you. 24/7, you have access to all of this.</p> <p>One day a week, it’s office hours. I show up. Hugh and people who are influencer members for Q&amp;As. What about this? What about that? It’s guided through the curriculum of the online program, <em>Unbound Leader,</em> which you get at a 50% discount. Topic-based conversations guiding your learning, helping you figure out how to apply the knowledge. Getting contacts all over the country from others who are in this learning covenant along with you. Once a week, once a month, whenever you like, you can chime in. It’s video. We see you, and you see us. Or you can just listen to others. Many times, we learn more just by listening to others ask questions that we may not have ever thought about asking. So the online community for community builders has lots of great value.</p> <p>I am encouraging you to try it out. You’re risking a dollar. There is no refund option. It’s a dollar. You will get a whole lot more value the first 30 seconds you’re there, and you continue receiving value. The more we build critical mass, the more good people who are there, the more content we share, the more we learn, the more we grow, the more we network, learning how to collaborate with others who could benefit us.</p> <p>This is <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> It’s one of the programs we have offered for four and a half years now in the community for community builders. You will have access to interviews with wonderful leaders, with wonderful knowledge, with great ideas. Every interview has a transcript. You get to read the transcript. You get to listen. You get to watch the video. Choose the topics, find the ones you like the most. Grab it. It’s yours. There are those kinds of assets in there. And the forums and live Q&amp;As. When you talk to others in the trenches.</p> <p>The Meyer Foundation discovered that 45% of nonprofit leaders were leaving because of burnout. The #1 problem. The #2 problem: low revenue. #3: low functioning board. Those are the high ones. But the Meyer Foundation did that discovery that 45% of nonprofit leaders were leaving, done, were burned out because we don’t know how to delegate, we don’t know how to say no, we don’t know how to sequence our work so that it’s actually doable. It’s not as easy as falling off a log. There is some work to getting it there. There is hope. There is a pathway. There is a process. We have assets. You don’t need to copy everything, but there is a template. Here are ideas. Here is how it’s normally done. Take the ideas, and make it your own system.</p> <p>Remember, I’m not a consultant who tells you what to do. I’m a WayFinder who guides you on the pathway of learning your own processes, building your skills, and creating your own outcomes. There is a huge difference in self-sufficiency. That is the title of that report that you get is Self-Sufficiency. You can get the free program, mini course, five pillars of success. You have to build those pillars. A self-sustainability report on thinking through how you are going to be self-sustainable so that you’re not waking up every day trying to think of where money is coming from today. You should have two years of salary in the bank. You should have operational money in the bank. You should have money in a foundation, endowment fund that pays interest that is part of your revenue generation. Earned interest on money you have in your bank that has been donated. Those resources are in the community for community builders.</p> <p>NonprofitCommunity.org will take you there. Click on the blue button, “Join.” It’s time to quit wasting time. It’s time to make a decision. Good leaders make a decision.</p> <p>Some people listening to this will not make a decision. 97/100 people will not make a decision. They’ll say, “That’s interesting. I will figure it out myself.” You probably will. We can help you shorten that timeline, go way more directly toward the targets, the success, and the results that you want to see. It’s investing in the future. You can certainly figure it out. We are here to help you do it in a shorter time frame and with more sustainable large results. I’m inviting you to go to NonprofitCommunity.org. Hit the Join button for a dollar. Boom, you’re in. Look around. There is a place to register for the Thursdays at 3 Eastern. We will expand that to when can you meet. Is there a better time than that? Let’s get started. Time’s a-wastin’. Opportunity is whizzing by our faces because we need to learn more to be able to seize those opportunities.</p> <p>I will tell you. Standing here, speaking to you today, I have made all of the mistakes conceivable. I have learned from those mistakes, and I have created programs because of those mistakes and because of the problems I see others encountering. I have gone backwards from the negative result to what to do about it.</p> <p>I am streaming live on Facebook to catch more people. It’s TheNonprofitExchange.org. Every week, 2:00, we broadcast with some expert telling us something we wish we’d known all along, or we would have been more successful had we known it. TheNonprofitExchange.org takes you to the page where the current and the future episodes are, and four years’ worth of archives. Very valuable resources indeed.</p> <p>Today’s version of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em> is to talk about the SynerVision online community for community builders, and to let you know there is a chance to check it out for a dollar. Go in, try it. NonprofitCommunity.org. That’s where you go. We’ll see you on one of those weekly Q&amp;A sessions because even if you don’t know what to ask, there is a question in your mind. How do we formulate those questions and find the answer that is right for you? it will be different for each one of you. We need to know how to arrive at that answer, what that answer will mean for the health of the organization, and what is the pathway forward to implementing that strategy from the answer.</p> <p>This is Hugh Ballou, the founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation saying thank you for being here.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from EZCard*</p> <p>Thank you for being here. Thank you for clicking on the online community for community builders. We have resources we have created just for you. They are not way expensive. Some are free. A lot is free. Many are very low-cost. Many will impact your future because they are things that you will learn that you didn’t know before. I am going to sign off on this episode. Thank you for being here. We will see you next week on <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Top 3 Branding Mistakes Your Profit Needs to Stop Making Now</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/top-3-branding-mistakes-your-profit-needs-to-stop-making-now</link>
      <description>      How to Put a "Twist" in Your Brand with Julie Cottineau (Archive)
 Julie Cottineau is the Founder and CEO of BrandTwist, a brand consultancy group that helps entrepreneurs and corporations build stronger, more profitable brands. Prior to launching her own business, she was the VP of Brand at Richard Branson’s Virgin Group, overseeing branding strategy for new and established Virgin companies in North America.
 About the Interview:
 Ever wonder how Richard Branson manages to shake things up every time, in so many different industries? Julie Cottineau, spent 5 years as the VP of Brand for Virgin in North America helping to grow this iconic brand. Now the best-selling author of TWIST: How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands (Panoma Press 2016), Founder &amp; CEO of BrandTwist will show you how TWIST your non profit's brand  for maximum impact.
 Fresh ideas come from looking at old problems from new perspectives.
 In this podcast, Julie will teach you how to:
  Go beyond “me-too” marketing, and get stand out
 Make the most of every brand touch-point – large and small
 Connect with target more deeply to create loyal brand ambassadors
 Walk away with tangible new ideas for your organization
  Why nonprofits should care about brand
 A unique, compelling brand can make or break even the strongest, most worthy enterprise. Once you understand the true nature of your brand, you achieve clarity and focus. You are in a much better position to serve the cause and the people you’re really passionate about. Literally, it can change a life.
 Your charity, church or synagogue needs a strong brand – one with a TWIST. The TWIST is your unique story that will help you stand out, get the attention your good work deserves and build a loyal community of followers, donors, and volunteers.
  
 Read the Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s Hugh Ballou and Russell David Dennis. Russell, how are you out there in Denver, mile high Colorado?
 Russell Dennis: The sun is shining, but you step outside and it’s very cold. I’m having Northern Maine flashbacks with these single digit temperatures here.
 Hugh: We are recording in the wintertime. People listen at all places. It might be warm in the other hemisphere, and it might be summer in the northern hemisphere when you listen to it. But the message is that we give you the techniques and strategies and information. It doesn’t have a season. It’s stuff you can use any time. This is a real important topic today, like all of them, but we tend to skip over this thing of branding. We tend to think it’s a picture, a logo. We got a brand, we got a logo. We are going to explore the different facets of branding and give you a top level view of what it looks like and what it is. One of the best people I know has this great book out called Twist. Julie Cottineau. Did I say it right, Julie?
 Julie Cottineau: Close enough.
 Hugh: I have a good memory, but it’s short. Thank you for being our guest today. Tell the people listening a little bit about you and a little bit about brand twist.
 Julie: I think I have been branding since I was eight years old. When I was a little girl growing up in Massachusetts, my parents wouldn’t let me have a pet because my brother was allergic. I went out in my garden and took a rock and put it in a Cool Whip container. I poked holes in it so it would be able to breathe. I invented the pet rock. Two years later, some guy named Gary Dahl in San Francisco invented the official pet rock because he was also fed up with regular pets. He was in a bar after work, he worked in advertising, and all his friends were leaving to feed their cats and walk their dogs. He said there has to be a pet with no hassle, so he created the official pet rock for no hassle. I created the non-allergic pet rock. Ever since then, I have been creating solutions with a twist from a different angle.
 Hugh: Twist. How did that name come about?
 Julie: That’s another story. I was working as a branding consultant for Interbrand, a large branding agency. I was traveling all over the country. I was at Newark Airport one day. I looked out of the window and saw this 747 with these golden arches on the tailspin. I stopped in my tracks and thought, That would be a really interesting airline. It would be different than all these other airlines that had the same color seats and stewardesses and the same experience. A McDonalds airline, maybe I could buy a regular economy seat and supersize it to a premium seat. I looked up again and realized that it was a mirage. It was actually the reflection of the food court sign on the window, and there happened to be a plane. You following me? It was a hallucination. But it started me thinking, if you are in the airline business and want to break through, stop worrying about your other airline competitors and twist with other brands. Find brands that you admire that are doing cool things outside of your category, and twist those lessons with your brand. That started it all.
 Hugh: We put a snazzy title for this. The top mistakes. What are some of the things that people do that you wish they wouldn’t do?
 Julie: We put the top three mistakes; it was hard to keep it to three.
 Hugh: I’ll bet.
 Julie: You can grow to four. These were mistakes nonprofits are making. The first one is what we were just talking about: not really understanding what a brand is. In fact, confusing your branding with your marketing. That is a big mistake. Your marketing is how you get your message out there, but your branding is your fundamental story. What are you about? Why should people care? All great stories, if we think about our favorite movies and books, they have a twist. They have something unexpected in the plot. The number one mistake is stop saying if I only had ten times the marketing budget, I could build my nonprofit. Well, I could throw 20 times the marketing budget at you, but if your brand isn’t in shape, your fundamental story of who you are, who you serve, and what’s different about you, then it’s a waste of money.
 Hugh: It’s a waste of money. What happens when- I guess one of the fundamental branding issues with a nonprofit is the word “nonprofit.” It really puts us in a negative twist of scarcity thinking and nonprofit, we gotta have profit to be able to run this church or synagogue or community charity. How do we start out on this journey of creating our brand? Talk about brand image, brand promise, brand identity. There is a lot of facets to this besides the logo.
 Julie: Your brand is not your logo. Your brand is fundamentally your story, and your logo and name should help reflect that.
 I think a very unique challenge of nonprofits is the second mistake. They really try to welcome everybody. People who work in the nonprofit world are attracted to it because there is this inclusive instinct. Branding is actually about choices. If you have a page of your website that tries to tell everybody about everything that you do, you will connect with no one. It’s like the twist on AT&amp;T: reach out and touch someone. It’s like reach out and touch no one.
 What I say the most important thing about branding is be clear on who you want to serve and the issues you want to promote. Be very choiceful. Narrow them down. Most nonprofit websites look like someone threw spaghetti up on the website and wanted to see what sticks. Branding is like an onion. Just tell me a little bit for me to get to know you, and then I will keep peeling the layers back to continue to get to know you. Less is more. Particularly in nonprofit branding.
 Hugh: Russell, we see lots of funky things, don’t we?
 Russell: Yeah, it gets really interesting. If your target is everyone, you’re marketing to no one. What it’s about is really having people understand what it is that you do. A confused mind always says no. From a perspective of nonprofit, what is it precisely that a brand should do for a nonprofit? What is that main benefit that they get? I don’t think people always understand the benefit in taking time to actually build a brand. What is that main benefit, and how does that really empower nonprofits?
 Julie: The main benefit is your brand promise. Getting clear on your brand promise. Getting specific on your brand promise. It’s not we want to help people, or we want to make everyone feel included, or we want to make life better. Those brand promises are not gonna stick because not that they’re not valid, but they’re just so overused. It’s like when Charlie Brown hears the teacher talk, and all he hears is “wah wah wah.” When I work with nonprofit clients, what problem are we trying to solve? Can we get really specific on that problem? Not that we want to give people shelter or help homeless people, but keep digging deeper. We want to help people feel at home. We want to help people feel that they can realize who they are in their minds versus how other people are seeing them. We keep digging. We get to one brand promise. The main thing we do with that brand promise is we don’t validate it by looking at all the other nonprofits in our space, and we don’t create it by committee, which is hard for nonprofits. Nonprofits love committees. What we try to do is say if there is a leader of the nonprofit, whether it’s the president of the board or head of marketing, they need to own the brand. Everybody else can contribute their ideas, but at some point, someone needs to make a decision and get everybody on board. Versus we need a direction that everybody can live with, but no one hates. That is the definition of weak branding, when you go to the lowest common denominator.
 Hugh: She has good sound bites here, doesn’t she, Russ?
 Russell: Brilliant. It’s quite a field. I have done some marketing myself. I started out working in market research and sold some advertising on television and in print. But that doesn’t really speak to brand. I was just fascinated by why people do some things. Describe to us what attracted you to the career of helping others build brands. How did that particular piece of marketing expertise jump out at you?
 Julie: I’ve always liked storytelling. I studied communications and creative writing. When I was little, my rockstar was Judy Bloom. I won a contest at the library to go hear her speak. To me, that was winning the Super Bowl. I was so excited by it. I’ve always been interested in storytelling. Branding is a very unique way to tell your story.
 I am in my office. I like to use all the different tools that I have. My brand is purple because it’s the twist of red and blue. I tell my story not just in words, but also in images. You will never see me on stage without some purple on. The walls of the office are purple. The cover on my book is a twist of pink and purple. Nonprofits, one of the mistakes I see them making is they use stock photography because it’s cheap, and I understand that. But they build websites. Don’t invest a lot of money in them, but build them with a lot of images. The minute they set up their nonprofit, they are saying we’re just like everybody else. There are inexpensive ways to take stock photography but frame it differently, treat it with a different color.
 We learn those lessons by looking at brands like Tiffany’s. Tiffany’s is a great brand to twist with. If someone gives you a blue Tiffany’s box, I say to my husband, it almost doesn’t matter what’s in the box. The blue is their brand. Tiffany’s robin egg blue. It sets up this expectation of an experience. I think that nonprofits should look at things like that, like owning a color. As soon as you see the red Target ad, you know right away, even if you don’t hear the name and only see a slice of the logo, you know right away it’s a Target ad.
 Hugh: It’s funny you bring that up. They are changing their colors in Lynchburg to white. I don’t know where I am. I was so into the red. The doors are still red, and people still wear the red and khaki. You were vice president of Richard Branson’s Virgin. What are some of the important things you learned from that experience? That’s powerful.
 Julie: It was an amazing experience. I think the biggest thing that I learned from Richard is not to be afraid to fail. He has an expression, “Fail harder.” Another one he has that is hopefully ok for this podcast, and is the title of one of his books is, “Screw it, let’s do it.” If you have a good idea, and it feels like it’s going to make an impact, don’t test it to death, don’t run it through 10 different committees, just try it. It might be successful, and it might not be. We know that we learn the most from the things that go wrong. It really opened me up to being more adventurous. I came home from my corporate job. I had been there five years, and I was having a great time. I said to my husband, “Screw it, let’s do it. I am going to start my own company.” He said, “I don’t think that’s what that means. We have two children to put through college.” I said, “No, that’s exactly what that means. I have an idea to create a branding consultancy and a book and a learning program, and I’m going to do it. If it’s successful, great. If it’s not, I am going to learn a lot.” That’s what I did seven years ago actually.
 Hugh: Wow, you’re still there doing it. Your book is called Twist: How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands. I remember you kindly sent me a copy to preview it. I think I did a respectable interview a couple years ago on the Orchestrating Success podcast for business leaders. This is a wholly different focus today. Really it’s not. Good branding, good leadership, good marketing is probably the same. We do have a lot of hang-ups when we are working for a nonprofit that we shouldn’t have. Where can people get your book?
 Julie: You can get it on Amazon. The easiest place.
 Hugh: And the color makes it stand out. I was amazed, Russell, that she finds a way to twist that word “twist” into pretty much every page of that book. It’s phenomenal how this plays out. Before Russ goes into another question, I want to ask you. You do board retreats. There is a tension between different perspectives and an apparent contrast. When you have this side and this side, when you start looking at the intersection, there is some real finite truth or wisdom. We have a different outcome, but we also have ownership at some level. When you do a board retreat, I would assume it’s a branding retreat, talk about the dynamics of how the board plays into the decision and how it goes from the retreat to the final decision. That is where a lot of us get stuck.
 Julie: Board retreats are interesting dynamics. The first thing I do is get everybody out of whatever the location is, whether it’s the church or synagogue, into a relaxed atmosphere where they can think differently, to use the apple. I also get them to start thinking about other brands. We don’t think about our organization as a brand, as a story, as something unique. We get bogged down into that won’t work, we tried that, I’m not sure about that. We have to remember that the people we are trying to engage, whether it’s members, donors, or volunteers, they don’t live in this box with only our brand. They live in the wider world with a wider brandscape.
 I ask the board members ahead of time, “What brands do you admire, and why?” If you admire Starbucks because it customizes your order or Nike because it motivates you or Uber because it helps you get around when you are on a business trip, why wouldn’t you bring some of those qualities to your organization? Why wouldn’t you twist some of those things? Why shouldn’t our church or synagogue or nonprofit also be customized and seamless to use and have clever impactful messaging? When I get them to think beyond their nonprofit to his larger brandscape and twist those ideas, then it breaks through. We come up in a short amount of time with solutions we hadn’t had for months and months of board meetings.
 The second part of your question is the trickier part, which is how do you move it forward? That is where I would say it shouldn’t be a democracy. The president of the board or the head of the nonprofit should get the input of everybody. If they are in a position of leadership, they have to take the leadership and say, “I have listened to everybody. This is what we’re going to do. You don’t have to agree with it 100%, but you have to understand why we’re doing it and help us tell the story to a larger group.”
 Russell: That’s an interesting perspective. There is a tricky balance to strike as far as getting by it. Obviously, you want your people to go with that. Who exactly is brand twisting for? With nonprofits, you have multiple audiences. You have multiple constituencies. You have your board, volunteers, donors, other people who fund your work, staff. How do you make that marriage work for all of those different audiences? Who is twisting specifically for? How do you do that?
 Julie: I like to work in brand development committees. I just rebranded a school system. We created a brand development committee that had the superintendent as the leader. Ultimately, she is the leader of that brand. She had to buy into it. We had two members of the board represented, not all 12, just two. We had a few practitioners represented, so some principals and teachers. We had some staff, the people, if we were going to change the website, on a daily basis, who are going to have to program it, and things like that. We had a committee of about 8 or 10 people. We worked in that committee and got through surveys and other strategic planning input from the community, parents and students. You can pull in input as data points, but don’t make your committee 30 people sitting around a table. You’re not going to get anything done. The 8-10 people worked on the branding solutions. We led them through the process. We committed as a group with the superintendent’s opinion counting the most to the one recommendation we were going to go back to the school board and make, with a lot of great rationale of how we got through the journey. It worked because we had a process. We had representation. Ultimately, we went with a recommendation and a clear rationale on that recommendation.
 Russell: When it comes to communication, eight people is about the span of control. Once you get beyond eight, the wheels start to come off the wagon.
 Julie: What we did was when we rebranded, we didn’t ask everybody, “Do you like this?” Branding is like naming your kids. You never tell anybody your intended names until the birth announcement comes out because all those opinions won’t be helpful. It’s your opinion as the parent that really counts. We named the new logo and gave it a story. We created a video that explained the change. We launched internally first so all the teachers beyond the committee got the preview first. Then we went out to the larger group. It wasn’t like the brand launch was overnight. It wasn’t just throwing up a logo and saying, “What do you think?” It was a really carefully crafted story that we told over and over for about a year until everybody understood it and got it and got behind it.
 Russell: One of the things that you mentioned in the book is that people have blinders on around branding. What is it that you mean by blinders? How do we work around these?
 Julie: It’s like a horse, if you’re trying to lead a racehorse out and put the blinders on so they can’t see anything beyond them, it keeps them going forward. But the downside of that in branding is we work in nonprofit that has to do with cancer. We spend all our time looking at nonprofits that have to do with cancer and we worry about being seen as legitimate. Because we worry about being seen as legitimate, we end up being very safe but also using the same words and images as everybody else. That is what I mean by brand blinders, is only thinking in your category.
 If you lift your head up, I mean honestly your next board meeting, have it in a Starbucks. That would be a good use of everybody’s time, or your favorite restaurant, or your favorite brand experience. Say, Look around. Why are we spending twice as much on a coup of coffee? Why is this an experience that we all come to? Why is everybody else hanging out here? What are they doing? Look how they are naming the baristas. Look how they are using the color green. Look how they are creating an atmosphere of welcome. What are the specific things that they’re doing to make us feel like this is not just a cup of coffee, but an engaging experience? How can we twist those with our nonprofit?
 Russell: What do you think are some of the more common mistakes that nonprofit leaders have? I imagine that these blinders have a lot to do with it. But what are the most common ones?
 Julie: Sticking within the category is a really common one. Another thing is taking too much input, trying to do too many things, like I mentioned. Most nonprofit websites, the front page will give you a headache because they are talking about everything. Setting a clear vision and using that as a funnel. I would say there is some overlooked brand touchpoints that nonprofits should think about. In my book, I talk about these vomit bag moments, which came from Virgin Atlantic, which was one of the brands that I looked after as part of Virgin Management. Virgin Atlantic did a very clever thing. They had these air sickness bags, which they had to provide anyway. It’s an FAA requirement. They have to be in every seat pocket for every flight over six hours, I think. Most airlines, well, what color are they for most airlines?
 Hugh: White?
 Julie: White, plain, no message. What Virgin Atlantic did was brand them. They made them red, which was the brand color, and they wrote a little story on them about how flying used to be fun, people used to get dressed up, and what happened to flying in terms of taking away all the peanuts. They twisted it back to a story about on how Virgin Atlantic, you will always feel great flying. I say to for-profit and nonprofit clients is: What are your vomit bag moments? What are the things you’re doing anyway as part of your brand experience, but you could add a twist? Whether it’s an invoice that you send, whether it’s a thank-you note, whether it’s a gift, on-hold music. If you have a phone calling as part of your nonprofit. Those are the little moments where you could add something that supports the brand and stands out.
 Hugh: When did this word “twist” come in your present thinking? How did that get so deeply embedded in your being?
 Julie: I think it was that airline experience. The McDonalds airline, I needed to look in a different way. I needed to look at things from a different angle. The more I started using it, the more people played it back to me as something that was helpful to them.
 Hugh: I like how she uses it instead of other words and twisting ideas into something that is unique. Part of what you all are talking about is back when you started this interview today, who do we serve? It’s our avatar, so to speak. Russell talked about marketing. We have to have a target. We want to attract certain people. We tend to think everyone needs us. How do you help your clients narrow down to that specific person that they want to attract?
 Julie: We create brand avatars. We look at up to three targets, and we create personas for each of them. Instead of saying, if you’re a medical nonprofit, it’s health care practitioners, we will say it’s Dr. Bob, and we will give Bob a backstory, and what keeps him up at night, and who lives in his household, creating a character in a novel. We will do that up to three times. What we’re looking for though is to turn this target into real people with real problems we can help solve.
 Hugh: When we’re talking to a specific person, we’re talking to the person who is sitting in the community nonprofit trying to figure out how to attract donors and volunteers and the next board member. Russell hit on it earlier, he says a confused mind says no. How many times have we had people ask for donations and board and all they get is excuses because all that person sees is I’m going to get sucked into this vortex?
 Russell: Endless time commitment and bottomless blank checks. People aren’t clear. The brand is important. The one question I have about brand is is a brand what you make it, is a brand forever? Are there appropriate times to look at it to see what you have is outdated or not working?
 Julie: That’s a great question. I think you do need to update your story every once in a while, or at least take a look at it. I do a lot of rebranding, if organizations merge, when there are major changes in the segment that organization serves, when there is new leadership. I think it’s a very worthwhile exercise every five years or so to check in and say, “Is that story we’re telling now relevant to the people we’re trying to serve? Is it relevant to who we are at this moment? Have we become something different?” Even if you go through one of those exercises and don’t change anything with the outwardly facing part of your brand, you will have validation that you’re telling the right story. I think that’s a really important exercise to do.
 I would say if you look at great brands in the for-profit world, like Coca-Cola for example, their core brand promise has always been about happiness. But every once in a while, they will update their advertising. “We’d like to teach the world to sing,” or “Open a Coke and a smile,” or “Happiness.” The fundamentals are there, but there is a bit of a refresh. People get excited about the refresh. People pay attention to brand refreshes or rebranding. It’s a great opportunity to get out in front of your targets and your donors and say, “Let us tell you what’s new. You might have noticed we made some changes. It’s not because we just needed cosmetic changes, but our vision is evolving. We wanted the brand to reflect that vision.”
 Hugh: We’ve talked around these terms. Let’s clarify. You’ve used the phrase “brand promise” a few times. There is a brand image, brand identity, brand promise. There are different facets. How do you segment the different parts of a brand?
 Julie: Your brand identity is everything. It’s the way you show up, the way you present yourself to the world, not just in your logo and website, but in the way your people behave, etc. I look at it as a house. The brand promise is the roof. That is the main thing you stand for. There is a diagram in my book of the roof of a house. That is what you enable. If you look at Nike, for example, they sell sneakers, but their brand promise is “Just do it.” Supporting that roof, you have three brand pillars. Those are your values. Why should I believe that you’re someone who can help me just do it? You have three pillars that support that.
 Hugh: When we’re doing strategy, we nail down the problem we’re solving. Why do we exist? What is our solution? What is our unique value proposition? What do we do that’s different from others? Is that the building block to a brand? How does that fit into the branding that you do?
 Julie: Yeah, I think your unique value proposition is your brand twist. That is your brand promise. When I do it, I like to make them succinct and easy to remember. I’m not a big believer in mission, vision, values, 10 layers of the brand. When I do it, I answer four questions. The first is “Who are we trying to serve?” and dig into that psychographic. What are we promising them? That is your brand promise or your unique value proposition. Why should they believe us? That is your brand values. Who, what, why? The last question I answer is how, how do I bring it to life? What is my website? What is my tagline? What is the way I dress? What are the cuts of people I hire? One of the biggest mistakes I see for nonprofits and for-profits is they say, “We want to update our website.” If you are creating a new nonprofit, they are creating a new website. They go right to the how, how are we going to bring this to life? But they don’t do the who, what, and why. They don’t have a strategy. They spend hours and hours on versions of websites and logos, and they waste a ton of money. They think they’ll just know it when I see it. It’s not a great way to create a brand. You have to have a strategy. Once you have a strategy, the execution is actually pretty easy.
 Hugh: That’s so common. Russ and I see that a lot. We had David Corbin on here a while back. David has a book called Brand Slaughter. We have seen that happen with another airline; we won’t mention their name, but their initials are United. That one person destroyed the brand. It’s happened a few times. But there are other companies where one person acted in a way that violated the way the company wanted to represent their value proposition and brand identity. What we do, we do values and principles. Part of that is how do we behave in the culture? How do we make decisions? Talk a minute about taking this brand promise we have and how to get people who are volunteers, board members, committee members represent that brand. We can violate that brand with our behavior, can’t we?
 Julie: Yeah. You asked me what I learned from Richard Branson. That’s the second biggest lesson besides taking chances. Your employees are the ambassadors of your brand. They bring the brand to life in their behavior. I do a lot of internal brand activation, meaning I train employees on the brand. I train them how to behave based on the brand. If our brand stands for teamwork, we actually look at all of our systems and evaluate where we are acting as a team and where we are breaking down. I had one client who was standing for teamwork, but we realized their office had an open plan with lots of cubicles. There were no nameplates. Somebody new to the team, it was taking them months to learn everybody’s name. That’s not a way to create a team. They’d see each other in the cafeteria, and they were embarrassed because they didn’t know each other’s names. Something as little as that. Definitely hiring. I use my brand values, even if I am hiring an intern. I ask them questions. Tell me a time that you twisted. Tell me about a time that you solved a problem from a different angle. Hiring, training, and rewarding on brand. Don’t keep your brand values in a notebook somewhere. People will start really paying attention to them if they know their compensation or advancement is tied to them.
 Hugh: I just remembered when I was in high school, the twist was a dance. Russell, rescue me, will you?
 Russell: Thank god for the power of good video editors and sound editors. The first couple of months, I was co-hosting. This is Hugh, and old what’s-his-name in Colorado somewhere. But it’s important for people in the organization to have all the tools. If your organization is firing on all cylinders, even the person that comes in and sweeps the floor at night can talk to you about what that organization does and how it works. We have had good discussions. The brands that stick out in our minds are large, a lot of them larger than life. A lot of small nonprofits are resource-starved. They are listening to this, thinking, this is all well and good if you have 100 grand to throw at your marketing. But if you are like us, you’re small and don’t have a lot of resources, how do we build a brand? How do we bring this about with limited resources?
 Julie: Having a strong brand is even more important if you have limited resources. If you have limited resources, you can’t afford to have things that don’t tell a really tight story. I work with a lot of small businesses and nonprofits, 1-3-people sized companies. We spend that time on the brand promise and the brand pillars because that allows you to use every tool in the toolbox to tell the same story. Branding is harder, but more important, when you’re smaller. It allows everything to work together.
 When I worked at Virgin, we actually spent way less than all of our competition on advertising. Way less. Virgin Atlantic spends way less than British Airways. But those ads would stand out, and they would create a loyal following. They would punch above their weight because they were very clear about who they were going after. The twist was very clear. What was different about the experience was very clear.
 Russell: What are some of the tools as a bare minimum that someone in the nonprofit should have to be able to talk about their organization in a compelling way? Are there one or two tools that you would say are absolutely essential? How important is it that these are simple and easy to use?
 Julie: I think your website is probably the biggest tool. For good or for bad, people come in, even if they are going to meet you in person, they will look at your website. Your brand walks in the room for you, and it sticks around after you’re gone. I think having a smaller website, one or two pages, that are just super clear and really visually engaging, is important. The same thing for business cards. As you said, a confused mind doesn’t remember anything. Keep it really simple, really streamlined. Your website, your business card, and your presentation. You can do a lot with live presentations. But talk on your elevator pitch. Have your elevator pitch be concise. Help people understand what you do in three floors, not in 35 floors. That comes from being clear on your brand and practicing it.
 I was telling Hugh at the beginning that I have done a lot of work lately with personal branding. I am teaching a class at Stanford with Tyra Banks who has built a huge personal brand as an entrepreneur and model. I think that nonprofit leaders need to embody their personal brands, and show up as their brands, whether that is wearing a color, a tie, or a pin. Don’t go around saying your nonprofit is caring or innovative and not acting that way. One reason Richard Branson has been so successful is his business brand is about shaking things up, but his personal brand is about shaking things up. He spends a lot of time- he is the most followed executive on Twitter. He tweets about business and also life. He is frustrated about things, and is finding new ways to solve old problems.
 Russell: I follow Richard Branson on LinkedIn. He has a lot of interesting things to say. A lot of people think about them. I think most of us have interesting things to say. A lot of people who may not be clear on how interesting the stuff they have to say is, or how to put it together. We talked about the people of stories. How do you work with people who are having difficulty finding their voice, what it is they stand for, what it is they want to communicate?
 Julie: The first thing I do is offer brand health checks. These are the best place to start. You wouldn’t go into your doctor and say, hey, help me fix everything. You go in once a year and say, “These are the things I feel good about. Here are some of the things I think need attention.” We offer these brand health checks through the website. What we do is spend some time asking you some questions. We look at your materials, whether it is your LinkedIn profile or your website. We will triage: What are the areas you need to look at? Maybe your brand promise is pretty good, but you are not expressing it right. Maybe your targeting is all over the place. Maybe you need to use social media in a slightly different way, or colors in a slightly different way. These brand health checks are a great place to start.
 Hugh: In your book, you talk about brand blinders. Can you say more about that?
 Julie: Sure. Those are when you are looking in your category and not outside of your category for inspiration. Taking off your brand blinders means that you are looking beyond your segment to the larger world for inspiration.
 Hugh: We want to make sure you highlight this offer. You say you work with a lot of individuals on personal branding, small businesses, and nonprofits. We have probably a mixture of all of those that follow us and listen to us and watch this. Where do they go first off for this brand checkup?
 Julie: We have two diagnostic products. One is a brand health check. That is 60 minutes. That is if you want to talk about your overall nonprofit. Go to BrandTwist.com. Get Started. Brand Health Check. If you are interested just in your personal brand, we have a personal brand plan call. That is half an hour. That is very similar, but we will ask you more personal questions. That is great for people who want help with their leadership, who are changing careers, who are job seekers. We talk a lot to recent graduates who want to get into the nonprofit or another space. That is for people who want to focus on their personal brand. But all roads lead to BrandTwist.com. We will have a special promotion for your listeners.
 Hugh: You are? Behind your head, it says Brand School. What is that?
 Julie: Brand School is our online school that we offer a few times a year for small businesses and nonprofits. It’s a 10-week program. We get you all of the consulting that a big company would get, but we do it in groups of 10-12 students at a time. More heavy lifting on your side. It becomes more affordable and also creates a community of entrepreneurs.
 Hugh: Do you have a blog or podcast or anything people can tune into to get more of Julie?
 Julie: Yeah. If you go to BrandTwist.com, we have a blog that we update all the time. I am pretty active on Twitter as well. @JCottin on Twitter. You can Google Twist. We have good branding. There is lots of information that comes up.
 Hugh: Yay. Russell, why don’t you have another question? He’s got one cooking, I’m sure.
 Russell: All those wrinkles in my forehead are just common creases. They don’t have any particular significance. For those of you who are watching this now, there is a branding twist school coming up. A semester in a couple weeks. If this is something of interest to you, look at it.
 One of the things I saw as I was looking through this website, which has a wealth of information, there were some things we didn’t talk about. Julie says there are three mission-critical reasons why you should have a twist. I’d like for her to share those if she could.
 Julie: The first is a twist will help you stand out. I think it’s really hard to stand out today in the competition.
 The second is bringing a twist to your business means you will have more fun. It’s hard work. We should be having fun and doing things differently.
 I would say the third thing is think about your personal twist. Many of us will change careers or work for different nonprofits over the course of our lives. Paying attention to your personal and professional twists will always serve you. A lot of us are serial entrepreneurs or serial nonprofit professionals. You want to build not just a reputation for your nonprofit, but also your own reputation.
 Hugh: We talked about the symphony a little bit. There is a composite here. Maybe that’s the wrong word. But you have the symphony, which needs a brand. We have 750 orchestras in this country. I bet you most of them want to play classics, so they want people to come. They complain they are not attracting millennials at all. There is a real interest in millennials for authentic historical church and culture. The orchestra has its identity, but the conductor also has an identity. That is the person that shapes the sound of the orchestra and is the figurehead for the orchestra, even though there is a huge culture. Is that a contrast or a conflict? Is there a synergy? There are lots of examples, but I tend to know a little bit about this one.
 Julie: I think there should be a synergy. I think it’s great that you have an organization that has its identity. They don’t have to be identical, but there should be a synergy between the face of the organization and the group.
 The other thing I would say is that orchestra who is looking to attract millennials, this is a great example. Take off your brand blinders. Stop looking at what other orchestras are doing. Look at brands that are attracting millennials. Twist those lessons.
 Hugh: Whoa. What do you think of that, Russ?
 Russell: I think that she is absolutely spot-on. Only Virgin Airways can be Virgin Airways. Everybody can’t be exactly the same. When you are focused on what everybody else is doing, you are probably leaving your own unique talents on the table. It helps to go through a process. We lead people through a process with our own success framework, and brand twisting will help you do that as well. It’s looking through that unique lens of what you bring to the table.
 Hugh: Our SynerVision brand is based on creating synergy through the common vision. We know who we are. We know where we’re going. We know who we want to influence. It not only builds the synergy on our team, but it’s building the synergistic interaction with our audience, our supporters.
 *Sponsor message from SynerVision’s Community for Community Builders*
 We are going to let Julie give you a final thought or challenge or tip as we close out this really helpful interview. Julie, thank you for such great information.
 Julie: My pleasure. I would say if you feel that your brand isn’t as healthy as it should be because you should build the brand that your business deserves, then I’d love to talk to anybody listening to this. You can go to BrandTwist.com and look at our brand health check or personal brand plan. If you put in the code SVLF, then you will get 15% off any of our products, and you will go to the top of the queue in getting something scheduled. I would love to check up your health and support your community however I can.
 My final thought is your brand is your business, whether your business is for-profit or nonprofit. You can’t separate the two. You can’t say, I’m working on building the business over here, and the brand over there. Strong brands are connected. Your brand is your business. Make it a priority.
 Russell: Great. If you haven’t visited this website, go check it out. BrandTwist.com. There are cool tools here. Don’t think you have to trip over half a million dollars to do something about your brand.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 25 Nov 2019 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7636d7e8-b329-11eb-9f0f-7bba856a8872/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Branding Secrets with Julie Cottineau</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>      How to Put a "Twist" in Your Brand with Julie Cottineau (Archive)
 Julie Cottineau is the Founder and CEO of BrandTwist, a brand consultancy group that helps entrepreneurs and corporations build stronger, more profitable brands. Prior to launching her own business, she was the VP of Brand at Richard Branson’s Virgin Group, overseeing branding strategy for new and established Virgin companies in North America.
 About the Interview:
 Ever wonder how Richard Branson manages to shake things up every time, in so many different industries? Julie Cottineau, spent 5 years as the VP of Brand for Virgin in North America helping to grow this iconic brand. Now the best-selling author of TWIST: How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands (Panoma Press 2016), Founder &amp; CEO of BrandTwist will show you how TWIST your non profit's brand  for maximum impact.
 Fresh ideas come from looking at old problems from new perspectives.
 In this podcast, Julie will teach you how to:
  Go beyond “me-too” marketing, and get stand out
 Make the most of every brand touch-point – large and small
 Connect with target more deeply to create loyal brand ambassadors
 Walk away with tangible new ideas for your organization
  Why nonprofits should care about brand
 A unique, compelling brand can make or break even the strongest, most worthy enterprise. Once you understand the true nature of your brand, you achieve clarity and focus. You are in a much better position to serve the cause and the people you’re really passionate about. Literally, it can change a life.
 Your charity, church or synagogue needs a strong brand – one with a TWIST. The TWIST is your unique story that will help you stand out, get the attention your good work deserves and build a loyal community of followers, donors, and volunteers.
  
 Read the Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s Hugh Ballou and Russell David Dennis. Russell, how are you out there in Denver, mile high Colorado?
 Russell Dennis: The sun is shining, but you step outside and it’s very cold. I’m having Northern Maine flashbacks with these single digit temperatures here.
 Hugh: We are recording in the wintertime. People listen at all places. It might be warm in the other hemisphere, and it might be summer in the northern hemisphere when you listen to it. But the message is that we give you the techniques and strategies and information. It doesn’t have a season. It’s stuff you can use any time. This is a real important topic today, like all of them, but we tend to skip over this thing of branding. We tend to think it’s a picture, a logo. We got a brand, we got a logo. We are going to explore the different facets of branding and give you a top level view of what it looks like and what it is. One of the best people I know has this great book out called Twist. Julie Cottineau. Did I say it right, Julie?
 Julie Cottineau: Close enough.
 Hugh: I have a good memory, but it’s short. Thank you for being our guest today. Tell the people listening a little bit about you and a little bit about brand twist.
 Julie: I think I have been branding since I was eight years old. When I was a little girl growing up in Massachusetts, my parents wouldn’t let me have a pet because my brother was allergic. I went out in my garden and took a rock and put it in a Cool Whip container. I poked holes in it so it would be able to breathe. I invented the pet rock. Two years later, some guy named Gary Dahl in San Francisco invented the official pet rock because he was also fed up with regular pets. He was in a bar after work, he worked in advertising, and all his friends were leaving to feed their cats and walk their dogs. He said there has to be a pet with no hassle, so he created the official pet rock for no hassle. I created the non-allergic pet rock. Ever since then, I have been creating solutions with a twist from a different angle.
 Hugh: Twist. How did that name come about?
 Julie: That’s another story. I was working as a branding consultant for Interbrand, a large branding agency. I was traveling all over the country. I was at Newark Airport one day. I looked out of the window and saw this 747 with these golden arches on the tailspin. I stopped in my tracks and thought, That would be a really interesting airline. It would be different than all these other airlines that had the same color seats and stewardesses and the same experience. A McDonalds airline, maybe I could buy a regular economy seat and supersize it to a premium seat. I looked up again and realized that it was a mirage. It was actually the reflection of the food court sign on the window, and there happened to be a plane. You following me? It was a hallucination. But it started me thinking, if you are in the airline business and want to break through, stop worrying about your other airline competitors and twist with other brands. Find brands that you admire that are doing cool things outside of your category, and twist those lessons with your brand. That started it all.
 Hugh: We put a snazzy title for this. The top mistakes. What are some of the things that people do that you wish they wouldn’t do?
 Julie: We put the top three mistakes; it was hard to keep it to three.
 Hugh: I’ll bet.
 Julie: You can grow to four. These were mistakes nonprofits are making. The first one is what we were just talking about: not really understanding what a brand is. In fact, confusing your branding with your marketing. That is a big mistake. Your marketing is how you get your message out there, but your branding is your fundamental story. What are you about? Why should people care? All great stories, if we think about our favorite movies and books, they have a twist. They have something unexpected in the plot. The number one mistake is stop saying if I only had ten times the marketing budget, I could build my nonprofit. Well, I could throw 20 times the marketing budget at you, but if your brand isn’t in shape, your fundamental story of who you are, who you serve, and what’s different about you, then it’s a waste of money.
 Hugh: It’s a waste of money. What happens when- I guess one of the fundamental branding issues with a nonprofit is the word “nonprofit.” It really puts us in a negative twist of scarcity thinking and nonprofit, we gotta have profit to be able to run this church or synagogue or community charity. How do we start out on this journey of creating our brand? Talk about brand image, brand promise, brand identity. There is a lot of facets to this besides the logo.
 Julie: Your brand is not your logo. Your brand is fundamentally your story, and your logo and name should help reflect that.
 I think a very unique challenge of nonprofits is the second mistake. They really try to welcome everybody. People who work in the nonprofit world are attracted to it because there is this inclusive instinct. Branding is actually about choices. If you have a page of your website that tries to tell everybody about everything that you do, you will connect with no one. It’s like the twist on AT&amp;T: reach out and touch someone. It’s like reach out and touch no one.
 What I say the most important thing about branding is be clear on who you want to serve and the issues you want to promote. Be very choiceful. Narrow them down. Most nonprofit websites look like someone threw spaghetti up on the website and wanted to see what sticks. Branding is like an onion. Just tell me a little bit for me to get to know you, and then I will keep peeling the layers back to continue to get to know you. Less is more. Particularly in nonprofit branding.
 Hugh: Russell, we see lots of funky things, don’t we?
 Russell: Yeah, it gets really interesting. If your target is everyone, you’re marketing to no one. What it’s about is really having people understand what it is that you do. A confused mind always says no. From a perspective of nonprofit, what is it precisely that a brand should do for a nonprofit? What is that main benefit that they get? I don’t think people always understand the benefit in taking time to actually build a brand. What is that main benefit, and how does that really empower nonprofits?
 Julie: The main benefit is your brand promise. Getting clear on your brand promise. Getting specific on your brand promise. It’s not we want to help people, or we want to make everyone feel included, or we want to make life better. Those brand promises are not gonna stick because not that they’re not valid, but they’re just so overused. It’s like when Charlie Brown hears the teacher talk, and all he hears is “wah wah wah.” When I work with nonprofit clients, what problem are we trying to solve? Can we get really specific on that problem? Not that we want to give people shelter or help homeless people, but keep digging deeper. We want to help people feel at home. We want to help people feel that they can realize who they are in their minds versus how other people are seeing them. We keep digging. We get to one brand promise. The main thing we do with that brand promise is we don’t validate it by looking at all the other nonprofits in our space, and we don’t create it by committee, which is hard for nonprofits. Nonprofits love committees. What we try to do is say if there is a leader of the nonprofit, whether it’s the president of the board or head of marketing, they need to own the brand. Everybody else can contribute their ideas, but at some point, someone needs to make a decision and get everybody on board. Versus we need a direction that everybody can live with, but no one hates. That is the definition of weak branding, when you go to the lowest common denominator.
 Hugh: She has good sound bites here, doesn’t she, Russ?
 Russell: Brilliant. It’s quite a field. I have done some marketing myself. I started out working in market research and sold some advertising on television and in print. But that doesn’t really speak to brand. I was just fascinated by why people do some things. Describe to us what attracted you to the career of helping others build brands. How did that particular piece of marketing expertise jump out at you?
 Julie: I’ve always liked storytelling. I studied communications and creative writing. When I was little, my rockstar was Judy Bloom. I won a contest at the library to go hear her speak. To me, that was winning the Super Bowl. I was so excited by it. I’ve always been interested in storytelling. Branding is a very unique way to tell your story.
 I am in my office. I like to use all the different tools that I have. My brand is purple because it’s the twist of red and blue. I tell my story not just in words, but also in images. You will never see me on stage without some purple on. The walls of the office are purple. The cover on my book is a twist of pink and purple. Nonprofits, one of the mistakes I see them making is they use stock photography because it’s cheap, and I understand that. But they build websites. Don’t invest a lot of money in them, but build them with a lot of images. The minute they set up their nonprofit, they are saying we’re just like everybody else. There are inexpensive ways to take stock photography but frame it differently, treat it with a different color.
 We learn those lessons by looking at brands like Tiffany’s. Tiffany’s is a great brand to twist with. If someone gives you a blue Tiffany’s box, I say to my husband, it almost doesn’t matter what’s in the box. The blue is their brand. Tiffany’s robin egg blue. It sets up this expectation of an experience. I think that nonprofits should look at things like that, like owning a color. As soon as you see the red Target ad, you know right away, even if you don’t hear the name and only see a slice of the logo, you know right away it’s a Target ad.
 Hugh: It’s funny you bring that up. They are changing their colors in Lynchburg to white. I don’t know where I am. I was so into the red. The doors are still red, and people still wear the red and khaki. You were vice president of Richard Branson’s Virgin. What are some of the important things you learned from that experience? That’s powerful.
 Julie: It was an amazing experience. I think the biggest thing that I learned from Richard is not to be afraid to fail. He has an expression, “Fail harder.” Another one he has that is hopefully ok for this podcast, and is the title of one of his books is, “Screw it, let’s do it.” If you have a good idea, and it feels like it’s going to make an impact, don’t test it to death, don’t run it through 10 different committees, just try it. It might be successful, and it might not be. We know that we learn the most from the things that go wrong. It really opened me up to being more adventurous. I came home from my corporate job. I had been there five years, and I was having a great time. I said to my husband, “Screw it, let’s do it. I am going to start my own company.” He said, “I don’t think that’s what that means. We have two children to put through college.” I said, “No, that’s exactly what that means. I have an idea to create a branding consultancy and a book and a learning program, and I’m going to do it. If it’s successful, great. If it’s not, I am going to learn a lot.” That’s what I did seven years ago actually.
 Hugh: Wow, you’re still there doing it. Your book is called Twist: How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands. I remember you kindly sent me a copy to preview it. I think I did a respectable interview a couple years ago on the Orchestrating Success podcast for business leaders. This is a wholly different focus today. Really it’s not. Good branding, good leadership, good marketing is probably the same. We do have a lot of hang-ups when we are working for a nonprofit that we shouldn’t have. Where can people get your book?
 Julie: You can get it on Amazon. The easiest place.
 Hugh: And the color makes it stand out. I was amazed, Russell, that she finds a way to twist that word “twist” into pretty much every page of that book. It’s phenomenal how this plays out. Before Russ goes into another question, I want to ask you. You do board retreats. There is a tension between different perspectives and an apparent contrast. When you have this side and this side, when you start looking at the intersection, there is some real finite truth or wisdom. We have a different outcome, but we also have ownership at some level. When you do a board retreat, I would assume it’s a branding retreat, talk about the dynamics of how the board plays into the decision and how it goes from the retreat to the final decision. That is where a lot of us get stuck.
 Julie: Board retreats are interesting dynamics. The first thing I do is get everybody out of whatever the location is, whether it’s the church or synagogue, into a relaxed atmosphere where they can think differently, to use the apple. I also get them to start thinking about other brands. We don’t think about our organization as a brand, as a story, as something unique. We get bogged down into that won’t work, we tried that, I’m not sure about that. We have to remember that the people we are trying to engage, whether it’s members, donors, or volunteers, they don’t live in this box with only our brand. They live in the wider world with a wider brandscape.
 I ask the board members ahead of time, “What brands do you admire, and why?” If you admire Starbucks because it customizes your order or Nike because it motivates you or Uber because it helps you get around when you are on a business trip, why wouldn’t you bring some of those qualities to your organization? Why wouldn’t you twist some of those things? Why shouldn’t our church or synagogue or nonprofit also be customized and seamless to use and have clever impactful messaging? When I get them to think beyond their nonprofit to his larger brandscape and twist those ideas, then it breaks through. We come up in a short amount of time with solutions we hadn’t had for months and months of board meetings.
 The second part of your question is the trickier part, which is how do you move it forward? That is where I would say it shouldn’t be a democracy. The president of the board or the head of the nonprofit should get the input of everybody. If they are in a position of leadership, they have to take the leadership and say, “I have listened to everybody. This is what we’re going to do. You don’t have to agree with it 100%, but you have to understand why we’re doing it and help us tell the story to a larger group.”
 Russell: That’s an interesting perspective. There is a tricky balance to strike as far as getting by it. Obviously, you want your people to go with that. Who exactly is brand twisting for? With nonprofits, you have multiple audiences. You have multiple constituencies. You have your board, volunteers, donors, other people who fund your work, staff. How do you make that marriage work for all of those different audiences? Who is twisting specifically for? How do you do that?
 Julie: I like to work in brand development committees. I just rebranded a school system. We created a brand development committee that had the superintendent as the leader. Ultimately, she is the leader of that brand. She had to buy into it. We had two members of the board represented, not all 12, just two. We had a few practitioners represented, so some principals and teachers. We had some staff, the people, if we were going to change the website, on a daily basis, who are going to have to program it, and things like that. We had a committee of about 8 or 10 people. We worked in that committee and got through surveys and other strategic planning input from the community, parents and students. You can pull in input as data points, but don’t make your committee 30 people sitting around a table. You’re not going to get anything done. The 8-10 people worked on the branding solutions. We led them through the process. We committed as a group with the superintendent’s opinion counting the most to the one recommendation we were going to go back to the school board and make, with a lot of great rationale of how we got through the journey. It worked because we had a process. We had representation. Ultimately, we went with a recommendation and a clear rationale on that recommendation.
 Russell: When it comes to communication, eight people is about the span of control. Once you get beyond eight, the wheels start to come off the wagon.
 Julie: What we did was when we rebranded, we didn’t ask everybody, “Do you like this?” Branding is like naming your kids. You never tell anybody your intended names until the birth announcement comes out because all those opinions won’t be helpful. It’s your opinion as the parent that really counts. We named the new logo and gave it a story. We created a video that explained the change. We launched internally first so all the teachers beyond the committee got the preview first. Then we went out to the larger group. It wasn’t like the brand launch was overnight. It wasn’t just throwing up a logo and saying, “What do you think?” It was a really carefully crafted story that we told over and over for about a year until everybody understood it and got it and got behind it.
 Russell: One of the things that you mentioned in the book is that people have blinders on around branding. What is it that you mean by blinders? How do we work around these?
 Julie: It’s like a horse, if you’re trying to lead a racehorse out and put the blinders on so they can’t see anything beyond them, it keeps them going forward. But the downside of that in branding is we work in nonprofit that has to do with cancer. We spend all our time looking at nonprofits that have to do with cancer and we worry about being seen as legitimate. Because we worry about being seen as legitimate, we end up being very safe but also using the same words and images as everybody else. That is what I mean by brand blinders, is only thinking in your category.
 If you lift your head up, I mean honestly your next board meeting, have it in a Starbucks. That would be a good use of everybody’s time, or your favorite restaurant, or your favorite brand experience. Say, Look around. Why are we spending twice as much on a coup of coffee? Why is this an experience that we all come to? Why is everybody else hanging out here? What are they doing? Look how they are naming the baristas. Look how they are using the color green. Look how they are creating an atmosphere of welcome. What are the specific things that they’re doing to make us feel like this is not just a cup of coffee, but an engaging experience? How can we twist those with our nonprofit?
 Russell: What do you think are some of the more common mistakes that nonprofit leaders have? I imagine that these blinders have a lot to do with it. But what are the most common ones?
 Julie: Sticking within the category is a really common one. Another thing is taking too much input, trying to do too many things, like I mentioned. Most nonprofit websites, the front page will give you a headache because they are talking about everything. Setting a clear vision and using that as a funnel. I would say there is some overlooked brand touchpoints that nonprofits should think about. In my book, I talk about these vomit bag moments, which came from Virgin Atlantic, which was one of the brands that I looked after as part of Virgin Management. Virgin Atlantic did a very clever thing. They had these air sickness bags, which they had to provide anyway. It’s an FAA requirement. They have to be in every seat pocket for every flight over six hours, I think. Most airlines, well, what color are they for most airlines?
 Hugh: White?
 Julie: White, plain, no message. What Virgin Atlantic did was brand them. They made them red, which was the brand color, and they wrote a little story on them about how flying used to be fun, people used to get dressed up, and what happened to flying in terms of taking away all the peanuts. They twisted it back to a story about on how Virgin Atlantic, you will always feel great flying. I say to for-profit and nonprofit clients is: What are your vomit bag moments? What are the things you’re doing anyway as part of your brand experience, but you could add a twist? Whether it’s an invoice that you send, whether it’s a thank-you note, whether it’s a gift, on-hold music. If you have a phone calling as part of your nonprofit. Those are the little moments where you could add something that supports the brand and stands out.
 Hugh: When did this word “twist” come in your present thinking? How did that get so deeply embedded in your being?
 Julie: I think it was that airline experience. The McDonalds airline, I needed to look in a different way. I needed to look at things from a different angle. The more I started using it, the more people played it back to me as something that was helpful to them.
 Hugh: I like how she uses it instead of other words and twisting ideas into something that is unique. Part of what you all are talking about is back when you started this interview today, who do we serve? It’s our avatar, so to speak. Russell talked about marketing. We have to have a target. We want to attract certain people. We tend to think everyone needs us. How do you help your clients narrow down to that specific person that they want to attract?
 Julie: We create brand avatars. We look at up to three targets, and we create personas for each of them. Instead of saying, if you’re a medical nonprofit, it’s health care practitioners, we will say it’s Dr. Bob, and we will give Bob a backstory, and what keeps him up at night, and who lives in his household, creating a character in a novel. We will do that up to three times. What we’re looking for though is to turn this target into real people with real problems we can help solve.
 Hugh: When we’re talking to a specific person, we’re talking to the person who is sitting in the community nonprofit trying to figure out how to attract donors and volunteers and the next board member. Russell hit on it earlier, he says a confused mind says no. How many times have we had people ask for donations and board and all they get is excuses because all that person sees is I’m going to get sucked into this vortex?
 Russell: Endless time commitment and bottomless blank checks. People aren’t clear. The brand is important. The one question I have about brand is is a brand what you make it, is a brand forever? Are there appropriate times to look at it to see what you have is outdated or not working?
 Julie: That’s a great question. I think you do need to update your story every once in a while, or at least take a look at it. I do a lot of rebranding, if organizations merge, when there are major changes in the segment that organization serves, when there is new leadership. I think it’s a very worthwhile exercise every five years or so to check in and say, “Is that story we’re telling now relevant to the people we’re trying to serve? Is it relevant to who we are at this moment? Have we become something different?” Even if you go through one of those exercises and don’t change anything with the outwardly facing part of your brand, you will have validation that you’re telling the right story. I think that’s a really important exercise to do.
 I would say if you look at great brands in the for-profit world, like Coca-Cola for example, their core brand promise has always been about happiness. But every once in a while, they will update their advertising. “We’d like to teach the world to sing,” or “Open a Coke and a smile,” or “Happiness.” The fundamentals are there, but there is a bit of a refresh. People get excited about the refresh. People pay attention to brand refreshes or rebranding. It’s a great opportunity to get out in front of your targets and your donors and say, “Let us tell you what’s new. You might have noticed we made some changes. It’s not because we just needed cosmetic changes, but our vision is evolving. We wanted the brand to reflect that vision.”
 Hugh: We’ve talked around these terms. Let’s clarify. You’ve used the phrase “brand promise” a few times. There is a brand image, brand identity, brand promise. There are different facets. How do you segment the different parts of a brand?
 Julie: Your brand identity is everything. It’s the way you show up, the way you present yourself to the world, not just in your logo and website, but in the way your people behave, etc. I look at it as a house. The brand promise is the roof. That is the main thing you stand for. There is a diagram in my book of the roof of a house. That is what you enable. If you look at Nike, for example, they sell sneakers, but their brand promise is “Just do it.” Supporting that roof, you have three brand pillars. Those are your values. Why should I believe that you’re someone who can help me just do it? You have three pillars that support that.
 Hugh: When we’re doing strategy, we nail down the problem we’re solving. Why do we exist? What is our solution? What is our unique value proposition? What do we do that’s different from others? Is that the building block to a brand? How does that fit into the branding that you do?
 Julie: Yeah, I think your unique value proposition is your brand twist. That is your brand promise. When I do it, I like to make them succinct and easy to remember. I’m not a big believer in mission, vision, values, 10 layers of the brand. When I do it, I answer four questions. The first is “Who are we trying to serve?” and dig into that psychographic. What are we promising them? That is your brand promise or your unique value proposition. Why should they believe us? That is your brand values. Who, what, why? The last question I answer is how, how do I bring it to life? What is my website? What is my tagline? What is the way I dress? What are the cuts of people I hire? One of the biggest mistakes I see for nonprofits and for-profits is they say, “We want to update our website.” If you are creating a new nonprofit, they are creating a new website. They go right to the how, how are we going to bring this to life? But they don’t do the who, what, and why. They don’t have a strategy. They spend hours and hours on versions of websites and logos, and they waste a ton of money. They think they’ll just know it when I see it. It’s not a great way to create a brand. You have to have a strategy. Once you have a strategy, the execution is actually pretty easy.
 Hugh: That’s so common. Russ and I see that a lot. We had David Corbin on here a while back. David has a book called Brand Slaughter. We have seen that happen with another airline; we won’t mention their name, but their initials are United. That one person destroyed the brand. It’s happened a few times. But there are other companies where one person acted in a way that violated the way the company wanted to represent their value proposition and brand identity. What we do, we do values and principles. Part of that is how do we behave in the culture? How do we make decisions? Talk a minute about taking this brand promise we have and how to get people who are volunteers, board members, committee members represent that brand. We can violate that brand with our behavior, can’t we?
 Julie: Yeah. You asked me what I learned from Richard Branson. That’s the second biggest lesson besides taking chances. Your employees are the ambassadors of your brand. They bring the brand to life in their behavior. I do a lot of internal brand activation, meaning I train employees on the brand. I train them how to behave based on the brand. If our brand stands for teamwork, we actually look at all of our systems and evaluate where we are acting as a team and where we are breaking down. I had one client who was standing for teamwork, but we realized their office had an open plan with lots of cubicles. There were no nameplates. Somebody new to the team, it was taking them months to learn everybody’s name. That’s not a way to create a team. They’d see each other in the cafeteria, and they were embarrassed because they didn’t know each other’s names. Something as little as that. Definitely hiring. I use my brand values, even if I am hiring an intern. I ask them questions. Tell me a time that you twisted. Tell me about a time that you solved a problem from a different angle. Hiring, training, and rewarding on brand. Don’t keep your brand values in a notebook somewhere. People will start really paying attention to them if they know their compensation or advancement is tied to them.
 Hugh: I just remembered when I was in high school, the twist was a dance. Russell, rescue me, will you?
 Russell: Thank god for the power of good video editors and sound editors. The first couple of months, I was co-hosting. This is Hugh, and old what’s-his-name in Colorado somewhere. But it’s important for people in the organization to have all the tools. If your organization is firing on all cylinders, even the person that comes in and sweeps the floor at night can talk to you about what that organization does and how it works. We have had good discussions. The brands that stick out in our minds are large, a lot of them larger than life. A lot of small nonprofits are resource-starved. They are listening to this, thinking, this is all well and good if you have 100 grand to throw at your marketing. But if you are like us, you’re small and don’t have a lot of resources, how do we build a brand? How do we bring this about with limited resources?
 Julie: Having a strong brand is even more important if you have limited resources. If you have limited resources, you can’t afford to have things that don’t tell a really tight story. I work with a lot of small businesses and nonprofits, 1-3-people sized companies. We spend that time on the brand promise and the brand pillars because that allows you to use every tool in the toolbox to tell the same story. Branding is harder, but more important, when you’re smaller. It allows everything to work together.
 When I worked at Virgin, we actually spent way less than all of our competition on advertising. Way less. Virgin Atlantic spends way less than British Airways. But those ads would stand out, and they would create a loyal following. They would punch above their weight because they were very clear about who they were going after. The twist was very clear. What was different about the experience was very clear.
 Russell: What are some of the tools as a bare minimum that someone in the nonprofit should have to be able to talk about their organization in a compelling way? Are there one or two tools that you would say are absolutely essential? How important is it that these are simple and easy to use?
 Julie: I think your website is probably the biggest tool. For good or for bad, people come in, even if they are going to meet you in person, they will look at your website. Your brand walks in the room for you, and it sticks around after you’re gone. I think having a smaller website, one or two pages, that are just super clear and really visually engaging, is important. The same thing for business cards. As you said, a confused mind doesn’t remember anything. Keep it really simple, really streamlined. Your website, your business card, and your presentation. You can do a lot with live presentations. But talk on your elevator pitch. Have your elevator pitch be concise. Help people understand what you do in three floors, not in 35 floors. That comes from being clear on your brand and practicing it.
 I was telling Hugh at the beginning that I have done a lot of work lately with personal branding. I am teaching a class at Stanford with Tyra Banks who has built a huge personal brand as an entrepreneur and model. I think that nonprofit leaders need to embody their personal brands, and show up as their brands, whether that is wearing a color, a tie, or a pin. Don’t go around saying your nonprofit is caring or innovative and not acting that way. One reason Richard Branson has been so successful is his business brand is about shaking things up, but his personal brand is about shaking things up. He spends a lot of time- he is the most followed executive on Twitter. He tweets about business and also life. He is frustrated about things, and is finding new ways to solve old problems.
 Russell: I follow Richard Branson on LinkedIn. He has a lot of interesting things to say. A lot of people think about them. I think most of us have interesting things to say. A lot of people who may not be clear on how interesting the stuff they have to say is, or how to put it together. We talked about the people of stories. How do you work with people who are having difficulty finding their voice, what it is they stand for, what it is they want to communicate?
 Julie: The first thing I do is offer brand health checks. These are the best place to start. You wouldn’t go into your doctor and say, hey, help me fix everything. You go in once a year and say, “These are the things I feel good about. Here are some of the things I think need attention.” We offer these brand health checks through the website. What we do is spend some time asking you some questions. We look at your materials, whether it is your LinkedIn profile or your website. We will triage: What are the areas you need to look at? Maybe your brand promise is pretty good, but you are not expressing it right. Maybe your targeting is all over the place. Maybe you need to use social media in a slightly different way, or colors in a slightly different way. These brand health checks are a great place to start.
 Hugh: In your book, you talk about brand blinders. Can you say more about that?
 Julie: Sure. Those are when you are looking in your category and not outside of your category for inspiration. Taking off your brand blinders means that you are looking beyond your segment to the larger world for inspiration.
 Hugh: We want to make sure you highlight this offer. You say you work with a lot of individuals on personal branding, small businesses, and nonprofits. We have probably a mixture of all of those that follow us and listen to us and watch this. Where do they go first off for this brand checkup?
 Julie: We have two diagnostic products. One is a brand health check. That is 60 minutes. That is if you want to talk about your overall nonprofit. Go to BrandTwist.com. Get Started. Brand Health Check. If you are interested just in your personal brand, we have a personal brand plan call. That is half an hour. That is very similar, but we will ask you more personal questions. That is great for people who want help with their leadership, who are changing careers, who are job seekers. We talk a lot to recent graduates who want to get into the nonprofit or another space. That is for people who want to focus on their personal brand. But all roads lead to BrandTwist.com. We will have a special promotion for your listeners.
 Hugh: You are? Behind your head, it says Brand School. What is that?
 Julie: Brand School is our online school that we offer a few times a year for small businesses and nonprofits. It’s a 10-week program. We get you all of the consulting that a big company would get, but we do it in groups of 10-12 students at a time. More heavy lifting on your side. It becomes more affordable and also creates a community of entrepreneurs.
 Hugh: Do you have a blog or podcast or anything people can tune into to get more of Julie?
 Julie: Yeah. If you go to BrandTwist.com, we have a blog that we update all the time. I am pretty active on Twitter as well. @JCottin on Twitter. You can Google Twist. We have good branding. There is lots of information that comes up.
 Hugh: Yay. Russell, why don’t you have another question? He’s got one cooking, I’m sure.
 Russell: All those wrinkles in my forehead are just common creases. They don’t have any particular significance. For those of you who are watching this now, there is a branding twist school coming up. A semester in a couple weeks. If this is something of interest to you, look at it.
 One of the things I saw as I was looking through this website, which has a wealth of information, there were some things we didn’t talk about. Julie says there are three mission-critical reasons why you should have a twist. I’d like for her to share those if she could.
 Julie: The first is a twist will help you stand out. I think it’s really hard to stand out today in the competition.
 The second is bringing a twist to your business means you will have more fun. It’s hard work. We should be having fun and doing things differently.
 I would say the third thing is think about your personal twist. Many of us will change careers or work for different nonprofits over the course of our lives. Paying attention to your personal and professional twists will always serve you. A lot of us are serial entrepreneurs or serial nonprofit professionals. You want to build not just a reputation for your nonprofit, but also your own reputation.
 Hugh: We talked about the symphony a little bit. There is a composite here. Maybe that’s the wrong word. But you have the symphony, which needs a brand. We have 750 orchestras in this country. I bet you most of them want to play classics, so they want people to come. They complain they are not attracting millennials at all. There is a real interest in millennials for authentic historical church and culture. The orchestra has its identity, but the conductor also has an identity. That is the person that shapes the sound of the orchestra and is the figurehead for the orchestra, even though there is a huge culture. Is that a contrast or a conflict? Is there a synergy? There are lots of examples, but I tend to know a little bit about this one.
 Julie: I think there should be a synergy. I think it’s great that you have an organization that has its identity. They don’t have to be identical, but there should be a synergy between the face of the organization and the group.
 The other thing I would say is that orchestra who is looking to attract millennials, this is a great example. Take off your brand blinders. Stop looking at what other orchestras are doing. Look at brands that are attracting millennials. Twist those lessons.
 Hugh: Whoa. What do you think of that, Russ?
 Russell: I think that she is absolutely spot-on. Only Virgin Airways can be Virgin Airways. Everybody can’t be exactly the same. When you are focused on what everybody else is doing, you are probably leaving your own unique talents on the table. It helps to go through a process. We lead people through a process with our own success framework, and brand twisting will help you do that as well. It’s looking through that unique lens of what you bring to the table.
 Hugh: Our SynerVision brand is based on creating synergy through the common vision. We know who we are. We know where we’re going. We know who we want to influence. It not only builds the synergy on our team, but it’s building the synergistic interaction with our audience, our supporters.
 *Sponsor message from SynerVision’s Community for Community Builders*
 We are going to let Julie give you a final thought or challenge or tip as we close out this really helpful interview. Julie, thank you for such great information.
 Julie: My pleasure. I would say if you feel that your brand isn’t as healthy as it should be because you should build the brand that your business deserves, then I’d love to talk to anybody listening to this. You can go to BrandTwist.com and look at our brand health check or personal brand plan. If you put in the code SVLF, then you will get 15% off any of our products, and you will go to the top of the queue in getting something scheduled. I would love to check up your health and support your community however I can.
 My final thought is your brand is your business, whether your business is for-profit or nonprofit. You can’t separate the two. You can’t say, I’m working on building the business over here, and the brand over there. Strong brands are connected. Your brand is your business. Make it a priority.
 Russell: Great. If you haven’t visited this website, go check it out. BrandTwist.com. There are cool tools here. Don’t think you have to trip over half a million dollars to do something about your brand.
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        <![CDATA[          <p><strong>How to Put a "Twist" in Your Brand with Julie Cottineau (Archive)</strong></p> <p><strong>Julie Cottineau</strong> is the Founder and CEO of BrandTwist, a brand consultancy group that helps entrepreneurs and corporations build stronger, more profitable brands. Prior to launching her own business, she was the VP of Brand at Richard Branson’s Virgin Group, overseeing branding strategy for new and established Virgin companies in North America.</p> <p><strong>About the Interview:</strong></p> <p>Ever wonder how Richard Branson manages to shake things up every time, in so many different industries? Julie Cottineau, spent 5 years as the VP of Brand for Virgin in North America helping to grow this iconic brand. Now the best-selling author of <em><a href="http://thetwistbook.com/">TWIST: How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands</a></em> (Panoma Press 2016), Founder &amp; CEO of <a href="http://brandtwist.com/">BrandTwist</a> will show you how TWIST your non profit's brand  for maximum impact.</p> <p>Fresh ideas come from looking at old problems from new perspectives.</p> <p>In this podcast, Julie will teach you how to:</p> <ul> <li>Go beyond “me-too” marketing, and get stand out</li> <li>Make the most of every brand touch-point – large and small</li> <li>Connect with target more deeply to create loyal brand ambassadors</li> <li>Walk away with tangible new ideas for your organization</li> </ul> <p><strong>Why nonprofits should care about brand</strong></p> <p>A unique, compelling brand can make or break even the strongest, most worthy enterprise. Once you understand the true nature of your brand, you achieve clarity and focus. You are in a much better position to serve the cause and the people you’re really passionate about. Literally, it can change a life.</p> <p>Your charity, church or synagogue needs a strong brand – one with a TWIST. The TWIST is your unique story that will help you stand out, get the attention your good work deserves and build a loyal community of followers, donors, and volunteers.</p> <p> </p> Read the Interview Transcript <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> It’s Hugh Ballou and Russell David Dennis. Russell, how are you out there in Denver, mile high Colorado?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> The sun is shining, but you step outside and it’s very cold. I’m having Northern Maine flashbacks with these single digit temperatures here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are recording in the wintertime. People listen at all places. It might be warm in the other hemisphere, and it might be summer in the northern hemisphere when you listen to it. But the message is that we give you the techniques and strategies and information. It doesn’t have a season. It’s stuff you can use any time. This is a real important topic today, like all of them, but we tend to skip over this thing of branding. We tend to think it’s a picture, a logo. We got a brand, we got a logo. We are going to explore the different facets of branding and give you a top level view of what it looks like and what it is. One of the best people I know has this great book out called <em>Twist.</em> Julie Cottineau. Did I say it right, Julie?</p> <p><strong>Julie Cottineau:</strong> Close enough.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I have a good memory, but it’s short. Thank you for being our guest today. Tell the people listening a little bit about you and a little bit about brand twist.</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> I think I have been branding since I was eight years old. When I was a little girl growing up in Massachusetts, my parents wouldn’t let me have a pet because my brother was allergic. I went out in my garden and took a rock and put it in a Cool Whip container. I poked holes in it so it would be able to breathe. I invented the pet rock. Two years later, some guy named Gary Dahl in San Francisco invented the official pet rock because he was also fed up with regular pets. He was in a bar after work, he worked in advertising, and all his friends were leaving to feed their cats and walk their dogs. He said there has to be a pet with no hassle, so he created the official pet rock for no hassle. I created the non-allergic pet rock. Ever since then, I have been creating solutions with a twist from a different angle.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> <em>Twist</em>. How did that name come about?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> That’s another story. I was working as a branding consultant for Interbrand, a large branding agency. I was traveling all over the country. I was at Newark Airport one day. I looked out of the window and saw this 747 with these golden arches on the tailspin. I stopped in my tracks and thought, That would be a really interesting airline. It would be different than all these other airlines that had the same color seats and stewardesses and the same experience. A McDonalds airline, maybe I could buy a regular economy seat and supersize it to a premium seat. I looked up again and realized that it was a mirage. It was actually the reflection of the food court sign on the window, and there happened to be a plane. You following me? It was a hallucination. But it started me thinking, if you are in the airline business and want to break through, stop worrying about your other airline competitors and twist with other brands. Find brands that you admire that are doing cool things outside of your category, and twist those lessons with your brand. That started it all.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We put a snazzy title for this. The top mistakes. What are some of the things that people do that you wish they wouldn’t do?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> We put the top three mistakes; it was hard to keep it to three.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’ll bet.</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> You can grow to four. These were mistakes nonprofits are making. The first one is what we were just talking about: not really understanding what a brand is. In fact, confusing your branding with your marketing. That is a big mistake. Your marketing is how you get your message out there, but your branding is your fundamental story. What are you about? Why should people care? All great stories, if we think about our favorite movies and books, they have a twist. They have something unexpected in the plot. The number one mistake is stop saying if I only had ten times the marketing budget, I could build my nonprofit. Well, I could throw 20 times the marketing budget at you, but if your brand isn’t in shape, your fundamental story of who you are, who you serve, and what’s different about you, then it’s a waste of money.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s a waste of money. What happens when- I guess one of the fundamental branding issues with a nonprofit is the word “nonprofit.” It really puts us in a negative twist of scarcity thinking and nonprofit, we gotta have profit to be able to run this church or synagogue or community charity. How do we start out on this journey of creating our brand? Talk about brand image, brand promise, brand identity. There is a lot of facets to this besides the logo.</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> Your brand is not your logo. Your brand is fundamentally your story, and your logo and name should help reflect that.</p> <p>I think a very unique challenge of nonprofits is the second mistake. They really try to welcome everybody. People who work in the nonprofit world are attracted to it because there is this inclusive instinct. Branding is actually about choices. If you have a page of your website that tries to tell everybody about everything that you do, you will connect with no one. It’s like the twist on AT&amp;T: reach out and touch someone. It’s like reach out and touch no one.</p> <p>What I say the most important thing about branding is be clear on who you want to serve and the issues you want to promote. Be very choiceful. Narrow them down. Most nonprofit websites look like someone threw spaghetti up on the website and wanted to see what sticks. Branding is like an onion. Just tell me a little bit for me to get to know you, and then I will keep peeling the layers back to continue to get to know you. Less is more. Particularly in nonprofit branding.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, we see lots of funky things, don’t we?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yeah, it gets really interesting. If your target is everyone, you’re marketing to no one. What it’s about is really having people understand what it is that you do. A confused mind always says no. From a perspective of nonprofit, what is it precisely that a brand should do for a nonprofit? What is that main benefit that they get? I don’t think people always understand the benefit in taking time to actually build a brand. What is that main benefit, and how does that really empower nonprofits?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> The main benefit is your brand promise. Getting clear on your brand promise. Getting specific on your brand promise. It’s not we want to help people, or we want to make everyone feel included, or we want to make life better. Those brand promises are not gonna stick because not that they’re not valid, but they’re just so overused. It’s like when Charlie Brown hears the teacher talk, and all he hears is “wah wah wah.” When I work with nonprofit clients, what problem are we trying to solve? Can we get really specific on that problem? Not that we want to give people shelter or help homeless people, but keep digging deeper. We want to help people feel at home. We want to help people feel that they can realize who they are in their minds versus how other people are seeing them. We keep digging. We get to one brand promise. The main thing we do with that brand promise is we don’t validate it by looking at all the other nonprofits in our space, and we don’t create it by committee, which is hard for nonprofits. Nonprofits love committees. What we try to do is say if there is a leader of the nonprofit, whether it’s the president of the board or head of marketing, they need to own the brand. Everybody else can contribute their ideas, but at some point, someone needs to make a decision and get everybody on board. Versus we need a direction that everybody can live with, but no one hates. That is the definition of weak branding, when you go to the lowest common denominator.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> She has good sound bites here, doesn’t she, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Brilliant. It’s quite a field. I have done some marketing myself. I started out working in market research and sold some advertising on television and in print. But that doesn’t really speak to brand. I was just fascinated by why people do some things. Describe to us what attracted you to the career of helping others build brands. How did that particular piece of marketing expertise jump out at you?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> I’ve always liked storytelling. I studied communications and creative writing. When I was little, my rockstar was Judy Bloom. I won a contest at the library to go hear her speak. To me, that was winning the Super Bowl. I was so excited by it. I’ve always been interested in storytelling. Branding is a very unique way to tell your story.</p> <p>I am in my office. I like to use all the different tools that I have. My brand is purple because it’s the twist of red and blue. I tell my story not just in words, but also in images. You will never see me on stage without some purple on. The walls of the office are purple. The cover on my book is a twist of pink and purple. Nonprofits, one of the mistakes I see them making is they use stock photography because it’s cheap, and I understand that. But they build websites. Don’t invest a lot of money in them, but build them with a lot of images. The minute they set up their nonprofit, they are saying we’re just like everybody else. There are inexpensive ways to take stock photography but frame it differently, treat it with a different color.</p> <p>We learn those lessons by looking at brands like Tiffany’s. Tiffany’s is a great brand to twist with. If someone gives you a blue Tiffany’s box, I say to my husband, it almost doesn’t matter what’s in the box. The blue is their brand. Tiffany’s robin egg blue. It sets up this expectation of an experience. I think that nonprofits should look at things like that, like owning a color. As soon as you see the red Target ad, you know right away, even if you don’t hear the name and only see a slice of the logo, you know right away it’s a Target ad.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s funny you bring that up. They are changing their colors in Lynchburg to white. I don’t know where I am. I was so into the red. The doors are still red, and people still wear the red and khaki. You were vice president of Richard Branson’s Virgin. What are some of the important things you learned from that experience? That’s powerful.</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> It was an amazing experience. I think the biggest thing that I learned from Richard is not to be afraid to fail. He has an expression, “Fail harder.” Another one he has that is hopefully ok for this podcast, and is the title of one of his books is, “Screw it, let’s do it.” If you have a good idea, and it feels like it’s going to make an impact, don’t test it to death, don’t run it through 10 different committees, just try it. It might be successful, and it might not be. We know that we learn the most from the things that go wrong. It really opened me up to being more adventurous. I came home from my corporate job. I had been there five years, and I was having a great time. I said to my husband, “Screw it, let’s do it. I am going to start my own company.” He said, “I don’t think that’s what that means. We have two children to put through college.” I said, “No, that’s exactly what that means. I have an idea to create a branding consultancy and a book and a learning program, and I’m going to do it. If it’s successful, great. If it’s not, I am going to learn a lot.” That’s what I did seven years ago actually.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow, you’re still there doing it. Your book is called <em>Twist: How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands.</em> I remember you kindly sent me a copy to preview it. I think I did a respectable interview a couple years ago on the <em>Orchestrating Success</em> podcast for business leaders. This is a wholly different focus today. Really it’s not. Good branding, good leadership, good marketing is probably the same. We do have a lot of hang-ups when we are working for a nonprofit that we shouldn’t have. Where can people get your book?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> You can get it on Amazon. The easiest place.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And the color makes it stand out. I was amazed, Russell, that she finds a way to twist that word “twist” into pretty much every page of that book. It’s phenomenal how this plays out. Before Russ goes into another question, I want to ask you. You do board retreats. There is a tension between different perspectives and an apparent contrast. When you have this side and this side, when you start looking at the intersection, there is some real finite truth or wisdom. We have a different outcome, but we also have ownership at some level. When you do a board retreat, I would assume it’s a branding retreat, talk about the dynamics of how the board plays into the decision and how it goes from the retreat to the final decision. That is where a lot of us get stuck.</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> Board retreats are interesting dynamics. The first thing I do is get everybody out of whatever the location is, whether it’s the church or synagogue, into a relaxed atmosphere where they can think differently, to use the apple. I also get them to start thinking about other brands. We don’t think about our organization as a brand, as a story, as something unique. We get bogged down into that won’t work, we tried that, I’m not sure about that. We have to remember that the people we are trying to engage, whether it’s members, donors, or volunteers, they don’t live in this box with only our brand. They live in the wider world with a wider brandscape.</p> <p>I ask the board members ahead of time, “What brands do you admire, and why?” If you admire Starbucks because it customizes your order or Nike because it motivates you or Uber because it helps you get around when you are on a business trip, why wouldn’t you bring some of those qualities to your organization? Why wouldn’t you twist some of those things? Why shouldn’t our church or synagogue or nonprofit also be customized and seamless to use and have clever impactful messaging? When I get them to think beyond their nonprofit to his larger brandscape and twist those ideas, then it breaks through. We come up in a short amount of time with solutions we hadn’t had for months and months of board meetings.</p> <p>The second part of your question is the trickier part, which is how do you move it forward? That is where I would say it shouldn’t be a democracy. The president of the board or the head of the nonprofit should get the input of everybody. If they are in a position of leadership, they have to take the leadership and say, “I have listened to everybody. This is what we’re going to do. You don’t have to agree with it 100%, but you have to understand why we’re doing it and help us tell the story to a larger group.”</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s an interesting perspective. There is a tricky balance to strike as far as getting by it. Obviously, you want your people to go with that. Who exactly is brand twisting for? With nonprofits, you have multiple audiences. You have multiple constituencies. You have your board, volunteers, donors, other people who fund your work, staff. How do you make that marriage work for all of those different audiences? Who is twisting specifically for? How do you do that?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> I like to work in brand development committees. I just rebranded a school system. We created a brand development committee that had the superintendent as the leader. Ultimately, she is the leader of that brand. She had to buy into it. We had two members of the board represented, not all 12, just two. We had a few practitioners represented, so some principals and teachers. We had some staff, the people, if we were going to change the website, on a daily basis, who are going to have to program it, and things like that. We had a committee of about 8 or 10 people. We worked in that committee and got through surveys and other strategic planning input from the community, parents and students. You can pull in input as data points, but don’t make your committee 30 people sitting around a table. You’re not going to get anything done. The 8-10 people worked on the branding solutions. We led them through the process. We committed as a group with the superintendent’s opinion counting the most to the one recommendation we were going to go back to the school board and make, with a lot of great rationale of how we got through the journey. It worked because we had a process. We had representation. Ultimately, we went with a recommendation and a clear rationale on that recommendation.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> When it comes to communication, eight people is about the span of control. Once you get beyond eight, the wheels start to come off the wagon.</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> What we did was when we rebranded, we didn’t ask everybody, “Do you like this?” Branding is like naming your kids. You never tell anybody your intended names until the birth announcement comes out because all those opinions won’t be helpful. It’s your opinion as the parent that really counts. We named the new logo and gave it a story. We created a video that explained the change. We launched internally first so all the teachers beyond the committee got the preview first. Then we went out to the larger group. It wasn’t like the brand launch was overnight. It wasn’t just throwing up a logo and saying, “What do you think?” It was a really carefully crafted story that we told over and over for about a year until everybody understood it and got it and got behind it.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One of the things that you mentioned in the book is that people have blinders on around branding. What is it that you mean by blinders? How do we work around these?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> It’s like a horse, if you’re trying to lead a racehorse out and put the blinders on so they can’t see anything beyond them, it keeps them going forward. But the downside of that in branding is we work in nonprofit that has to do with cancer. We spend all our time looking at nonprofits that have to do with cancer and we worry about being seen as legitimate. Because we worry about being seen as legitimate, we end up being very safe but also using the same words and images as everybody else. That is what I mean by brand blinders, is only thinking in your category.</p> <p>If you lift your head up, I mean honestly your next board meeting, have it in a Starbucks. That would be a good use of everybody’s time, or your favorite restaurant, or your favorite brand experience. Say, Look around. Why are we spending twice as much on a coup of coffee? Why is this an experience that we all come to? Why is everybody else hanging out here? What are they doing? Look how they are naming the baristas. Look how they are using the color green. Look how they are creating an atmosphere of welcome. What are the specific things that they’re doing to make us feel like this is not just a cup of coffee, but an engaging experience? How can we twist those with our nonprofit?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What do you think are some of the more common mistakes that nonprofit leaders have? I imagine that these blinders have a lot to do with it. But what are the most common ones?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> Sticking within the category is a really common one. Another thing is taking too much input, trying to do too many things, like I mentioned. Most nonprofit websites, the front page will give you a headache because they are talking about everything. Setting a clear vision and using that as a funnel. I would say there is some overlooked brand touchpoints that nonprofits should think about. In my book, I talk about these vomit bag moments, which came from Virgin Atlantic, which was one of the brands that I looked after as part of Virgin Management. Virgin Atlantic did a very clever thing. They had these air sickness bags, which they had to provide anyway. It’s an FAA requirement. They have to be in every seat pocket for every flight over six hours, I think. Most airlines, well, what color are they for most airlines?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> White?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> White, plain, no message. What Virgin Atlantic did was brand them. They made them red, which was the brand color, and they wrote a little story on them about how flying used to be fun, people used to get dressed up, and what happened to flying in terms of taking away all the peanuts. They twisted it back to a story about on how Virgin Atlantic, you will always feel great flying. I say to for-profit and nonprofit clients is: What are your vomit bag moments? What are the things you’re doing anyway as part of your brand experience, but you could add a twist? Whether it’s an invoice that you send, whether it’s a thank-you note, whether it’s a gift, on-hold music. If you have a phone calling as part of your nonprofit. Those are the little moments where you could add something that supports the brand and stands out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When did this word “twist” come in your present thinking? How did that get so deeply embedded in your being?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> I think it was that airline experience. The McDonalds airline, I needed to look in a different way. I needed to look at things from a different angle. The more I started using it, the more people played it back to me as something that was helpful to them.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I like how she uses it instead of other words and twisting ideas into something that is unique. Part of what you all are talking about is back when you started this interview today, who do we serve? It’s our avatar, so to speak. Russell talked about marketing. We have to have a target. We want to attract certain people. We tend to think everyone needs us. How do you help your clients narrow down to that specific person that they want to attract?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> We create brand avatars. We look at up to three targets, and we create personas for each of them. Instead of saying, if you’re a medical nonprofit, it’s health care practitioners, we will say it’s Dr. Bob, and we will give Bob a backstory, and what keeps him up at night, and who lives in his household, creating a character in a novel. We will do that up to three times. What we’re looking for though is to turn this target into real people with real problems we can help solve.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When we’re talking to a specific person, we’re talking to the person who is sitting in the community nonprofit trying to figure out how to attract donors and volunteers and the next board member. Russell hit on it earlier, he says a confused mind says no. How many times have we had people ask for donations and board and all they get is excuses because all that person sees is I’m going to get sucked into this vortex?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Endless time commitment and bottomless blank checks. People aren’t clear. The brand is important. The one question I have about brand is is a brand what you make it, is a brand forever? Are there appropriate times to look at it to see what you have is outdated or not working?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> That’s a great question. I think you do need to update your story every once in a while, or at least take a look at it. I do a lot of rebranding, if organizations merge, when there are major changes in the segment that organization serves, when there is new leadership. I think it’s a very worthwhile exercise every five years or so to check in and say, “Is that story we’re telling now relevant to the people we’re trying to serve? Is it relevant to who we are at this moment? Have we become something different?” Even if you go through one of those exercises and don’t change anything with the outwardly facing part of your brand, you will have validation that you’re telling the right story. I think that’s a really important exercise to do.</p> <p>I would say if you look at great brands in the for-profit world, like Coca-Cola for example, their core brand promise has always been about happiness. But every once in a while, they will update their advertising. “We’d like to teach the world to sing,” or “Open a Coke and a smile,” or “Happiness.” The fundamentals are there, but there is a bit of a refresh. People get excited about the refresh. People pay attention to brand refreshes or rebranding. It’s a great opportunity to get out in front of your targets and your donors and say, “Let us tell you what’s new. You might have noticed we made some changes. It’s not because we just needed cosmetic changes, but our vision is evolving. We wanted the brand to reflect that vision.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’ve talked around these terms. Let’s clarify. You’ve used the phrase “brand promise” a few times. There is a brand image, brand identity, brand promise. There are different facets. How do you segment the different parts of a brand?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> Your brand identity is everything. It’s the way you show up, the way you present yourself to the world, not just in your logo and website, but in the way your people behave, etc. I look at it as a house. The brand promise is the roof. That is the main thing you stand for. There is a diagram in my book of the roof of a house. That is what you enable. If you look at Nike, for example, they sell sneakers, but their brand promise is “Just do it.” Supporting that roof, you have three brand pillars. Those are your values. Why should I believe that you’re someone who can help me just do it? You have three pillars that support that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When we’re doing strategy, we nail down the problem we’re solving. Why do we exist? What is our solution? What is our unique value proposition? What do we do that’s different from others? Is that the building block to a brand? How does that fit into the branding that you do?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> Yeah, I think your unique value proposition is your brand twist. That is your brand promise. When I do it, I like to make them succinct and easy to remember. I’m not a big believer in mission, vision, values, 10 layers of the brand. When I do it, I answer four questions. The first is “Who are we trying to serve?” and dig into that psychographic. What are we promising them? That is your brand promise or your unique value proposition. Why should they believe us? That is your brand values. Who, what, why? The last question I answer is how, how do I bring it to life? What is my website? What is my tagline? What is the way I dress? What are the cuts of people I hire? One of the biggest mistakes I see for nonprofits and for-profits is they say, “We want to update our website.” If you are creating a new nonprofit, they are creating a new website. They go right to the how, how are we going to bring this to life? But they don’t do the who, what, and why. They don’t have a strategy. They spend hours and hours on versions of websites and logos, and they waste a ton of money. They think they’ll just know it when I see it. It’s not a great way to create a brand. You have to have a strategy. Once you have a strategy, the execution is actually pretty easy.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s so common. Russ and I see that a lot. We had David Corbin on here a while back. David has a book called <em>Brand Slaughter.</em> We have seen that happen with another airline; we won’t mention their name, but their initials are United. That one person destroyed the brand. It’s happened a few times. But there are other companies where one person acted in a way that violated the way the company wanted to represent their value proposition and brand identity. What we do, we do values and principles. Part of that is how do we behave in the culture? How do we make decisions? Talk a minute about taking this brand promise we have and how to get people who are volunteers, board members, committee members represent that brand. We can violate that brand with our behavior, can’t we?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> Yeah. You asked me what I learned from Richard Branson. That’s the second biggest lesson besides taking chances. Your employees are the ambassadors of your brand. They bring the brand to life in their behavior. I do a lot of internal brand activation, meaning I train employees on the brand. I train them how to behave based on the brand. If our brand stands for teamwork, we actually look at all of our systems and evaluate where we are acting as a team and where we are breaking down. I had one client who was standing for teamwork, but we realized their office had an open plan with lots of cubicles. There were no nameplates. Somebody new to the team, it was taking them months to learn everybody’s name. That’s not a way to create a team. They’d see each other in the cafeteria, and they were embarrassed because they didn’t know each other’s names. Something as little as that. Definitely hiring. I use my brand values, even if I am hiring an intern. I ask them questions. Tell me a time that you twisted. Tell me about a time that you solved a problem from a different angle. Hiring, training, and rewarding on brand. Don’t keep your brand values in a notebook somewhere. People will start really paying attention to them if they know their compensation or advancement is tied to them.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I just remembered when I was in high school, the twist was a dance. Russell, rescue me, will you?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thank god for the power of good video editors and sound editors. The first couple of months, I was co-hosting. This is Hugh, and old what’s-his-name in Colorado somewhere. But it’s important for people in the organization to have all the tools. If your organization is firing on all cylinders, even the person that comes in and sweeps the floor at night can talk to you about what that organization does and how it works. We have had good discussions. The brands that stick out in our minds are large, a lot of them larger than life. A lot of small nonprofits are resource-starved. They are listening to this, thinking, this is all well and good if you have 100 grand to throw at your marketing. But if you are like us, you’re small and don’t have a lot of resources, how do we build a brand? How do we bring this about with limited resources?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> Having a strong brand is even more important if you have limited resources. If you have limited resources, you can’t afford to have things that don’t tell a really tight story. I work with a lot of small businesses and nonprofits, 1-3-people sized companies. We spend that time on the brand promise and the brand pillars because that allows you to use every tool in the toolbox to tell the same story. Branding is harder, but more important, when you’re smaller. It allows everything to work together.</p> <p>When I worked at Virgin, we actually spent way less than all of our competition on advertising. Way less. Virgin Atlantic spends way less than British Airways. But those ads would stand out, and they would create a loyal following. They would punch above their weight because they were very clear about who they were going after. The twist was very clear. What was different about the experience was very clear.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What are some of the tools as a bare minimum that someone in the nonprofit should have to be able to talk about their organization in a compelling way? Are there one or two tools that you would say are absolutely essential? How important is it that these are simple and easy to use?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> I think your website is probably the biggest tool. For good or for bad, people come in, even if they are going to meet you in person, they will look at your website. Your brand walks in the room for you, and it sticks around after you’re gone. I think having a smaller website, one or two pages, that are just super clear and really visually engaging, is important. The same thing for business cards. As you said, a confused mind doesn’t remember anything. Keep it really simple, really streamlined. Your website, your business card, and your presentation. You can do a lot with live presentations. But talk on your elevator pitch. Have your elevator pitch be concise. Help people understand what you do in three floors, not in 35 floors. That comes from being clear on your brand and practicing it.</p> <p>I was telling Hugh at the beginning that I have done a lot of work lately with personal branding. I am teaching a class at Stanford with Tyra Banks who has built a huge personal brand as an entrepreneur and model. I think that nonprofit leaders need to embody their personal brands, and show up as their brands, whether that is wearing a color, a tie, or a pin. Don’t go around saying your nonprofit is caring or innovative and not acting that way. One reason Richard Branson has been so successful is his business brand is about shaking things up, but his personal brand is about shaking things up. He spends a lot of time- he is the most followed executive on Twitter. He tweets about business and also life. He is frustrated about things, and is finding new ways to solve old problems.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I follow Richard Branson on LinkedIn. He has a lot of interesting things to say. A lot of people think about them. I think most of us have interesting things to say. A lot of people who may not be clear on how interesting the stuff they have to say is, or how to put it together. We talked about the people of stories. How do you work with people who are having difficulty finding their voice, what it is they stand for, what it is they want to communicate?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> The first thing I do is offer brand health checks. These are the best place to start. You wouldn’t go into your doctor and say, hey, help me fix everything. You go in once a year and say, “These are the things I feel good about. Here are some of the things I think need attention.” We offer these brand health checks through the website. What we do is spend some time asking you some questions. We look at your materials, whether it is your LinkedIn profile or your website. We will triage: What are the areas you need to look at? Maybe your brand promise is pretty good, but you are not expressing it right. Maybe your targeting is all over the place. Maybe you need to use social media in a slightly different way, or colors in a slightly different way. These brand health checks are a great place to start.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> In your book, you talk about brand blinders. Can you say more about that?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> Sure. Those are when you are looking in your category and not outside of your category for inspiration. Taking off your brand blinders means that you are looking beyond your segment to the larger world for inspiration.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We want to make sure you highlight this offer. You say you work with a lot of individuals on personal branding, small businesses, and nonprofits. We have probably a mixture of all of those that follow us and listen to us and watch this. Where do they go first off for this brand checkup?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> We have two diagnostic products. One is a brand health check. That is 60 minutes. That is if you want to talk about your overall nonprofit. Go to BrandTwist.com. Get Started. Brand Health Check. If you are interested just in your personal brand, we have a personal brand plan call. That is half an hour. That is very similar, but we will ask you more personal questions. That is great for people who want help with their leadership, who are changing careers, who are job seekers. We talk a lot to recent graduates who want to get into the nonprofit or another space. That is for people who want to focus on their personal brand. But all roads lead to BrandTwist.com. We will have a special promotion for your listeners.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You are? Behind your head, it says Brand School. What is that?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> Brand School is our online school that we offer a few times a year for small businesses and nonprofits. It’s a 10-week program. We get you all of the consulting that a big company would get, but we do it in groups of 10-12 students at a time. More heavy lifting on your side. It becomes more affordable and also creates a community of entrepreneurs.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Do you have a blog or podcast or anything people can tune into to get more of Julie?</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> Yeah. If you go to BrandTwist.com, we have a blog that we update all the time. I am pretty active on Twitter as well. @JCottin on Twitter. You can Google <em>Twist.</em> We have good branding. There is lots of information that comes up.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yay. Russell, why don’t you have another question? He’s got one cooking, I’m sure.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> All those wrinkles in my forehead are just common creases. They don’t have any particular significance. For those of you who are watching this now, there is a branding twist school coming up. A semester in a couple weeks. If this is something of interest to you, look at it.</p> <p>One of the things I saw as I was looking through this website, which has a wealth of information, there were some things we didn’t talk about. Julie says there are three mission-critical reasons why you should have a twist. I’d like for her to share those if she could.</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> The first is a twist will help you stand out. I think it’s really hard to stand out today in the competition.</p> <p>The second is bringing a twist to your business means you will have more fun. It’s hard work. We should be having fun and doing things differently.</p> <p>I would say the third thing is think about your personal twist. Many of us will change careers or work for different nonprofits over the course of our lives. Paying attention to your personal and professional twists will always serve you. A lot of us are serial entrepreneurs or serial nonprofit professionals. You want to build not just a reputation for your nonprofit, but also your own reputation.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We talked about the symphony a little bit. There is a composite here. Maybe that’s the wrong word. But you have the symphony, which needs a brand. We have 750 orchestras in this country. I bet you most of them want to play classics, so they want people to come. They complain they are not attracting millennials at all. There is a real interest in millennials for authentic historical church and culture. The orchestra has its identity, but the conductor also has an identity. That is the person that shapes the sound of the orchestra and is the figurehead for the orchestra, even though there is a huge culture. Is that a contrast or a conflict? Is there a synergy? There are lots of examples, but I tend to know a little bit about this one.</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> I think there should be a synergy. I think it’s great that you have an organization that has its identity. They don’t have to be identical, but there should be a synergy between the face of the organization and the group.</p> <p>The other thing I would say is that orchestra who is looking to attract millennials, this is a great example. Take off your brand blinders. Stop looking at what other orchestras are doing. Look at brands that are attracting millennials. Twist those lessons.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Whoa. What do you think of that, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think that she is absolutely spot-on. Only Virgin Airways can be Virgin Airways. Everybody can’t be exactly the same. When you are focused on what everybody else is doing, you are probably leaving your own unique talents on the table. It helps to go through a process. We lead people through a process with our own success framework, and brand twisting will help you do that as well. It’s looking through that unique lens of what you bring to the table.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Our SynerVision brand is based on creating synergy through the common vision. We know who we are. We know where we’re going. We know who we want to influence. It not only builds the synergy on our team, but it’s building the synergistic interaction with our audience, our supporters.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from SynerVision’s Community for Community Builders*</p> <p>We are going to let Julie give you a final thought or challenge or tip as we close out this really helpful interview. Julie, thank you for such great information.</p> <p><strong>Julie:</strong> My pleasure. I would say if you feel that your brand isn’t as healthy as it should be because you should build the brand that your business deserves, then I’d love to talk to anybody listening to this. You can go to BrandTwist.com and look at our brand health check or personal brand plan. If you put in the code SVLF, then you will get 15% off any of our products, and you will go to the top of the queue in getting something scheduled. I would love to check up your health and support your community however I can.</p> <p>My final thought is your brand is your business, whether your business is for-profit or nonprofit. You can’t separate the two. You can’t say, I’m working on building the business over here, and the brand over there. Strong brands are connected. Your brand is your business. Make it a priority.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Great. If you haven’t visited this website, go check it out. BrandTwist.com. There are cool tools here. Don’t think you have to trip over half a million dollars to do something about your brand.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Leadership Challenges in Managing a Land Conservancy Nonprofit with David Perry</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/leadership-challenges-in-managing-a-land-conservancy-nonprofit-with-david-perry</link>
      <description>Leadership Challenges in Managing a Land Conservancy Nonprofit with David Perry
 DAVID PERRY, Executive Director is a Blacksburg native, has been with the Blue Ridge Land Conservancy since 2006, when he was hired as the land trust’s project manager. He became assistant director in 2011 and executive director in 2012. Dave is chairman of the City of Roanoke’s Mill Mountain Advisory Board and a member of the Roanoke Kiwanis Club.
 Dave has a master’s degree in park and resource management from Slippery Rock University and a bachelor’s degree in geography from James Madison University. Prior to coming to the land trust, he was employed with the Wicomico County Department of Recreation, Parks and Tourism in Salisbury, MD and as a district executive with the East Carolina Council of the Boy Scouts of America in Kinston, NC. He, his wife and two sons live in southwest Roanoke
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 24 Nov 2019 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7657b936-b329-11eb-9f0f-b3d089842eb1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leadership Challenges in Managing a Land Conservancy Nonprofit with David Perry DAVID PERRY, Executive Director is a Blacksburg native, has been with the Blue Ridge Land Conservancy since 2006, when he was hired as the land trust’s project...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Leadership Challenges in Managing a Land Conservancy Nonprofit with David Perry
 DAVID PERRY, Executive Director is a Blacksburg native, has been with the Blue Ridge Land Conservancy since 2006, when he was hired as the land trust’s project manager. He became assistant director in 2011 and executive director in 2012. Dave is chairman of the City of Roanoke’s Mill Mountain Advisory Board and a member of the Roanoke Kiwanis Club.
 Dave has a master’s degree in park and resource management from Slippery Rock University and a bachelor’s degree in geography from James Madison University. Prior to coming to the land trust, he was employed with the Wicomico County Department of Recreation, Parks and Tourism in Salisbury, MD and as a district executive with the East Carolina Council of the Boy Scouts of America in Kinston, NC. He, his wife and two sons live in southwest Roanoke
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Leadership Challenges in Managing a Land Conservancy Nonprofit with David Perry</strong></h1> <p><strong>DAVID PERRY,</strong> Executive Director is a Blacksburg native, has been with the Blue Ridge Land Conservancy since 2006, when he was hired as the land trust’s project manager. He became assistant director in 2011 and executive director in 2012. Dave is chairman of the City of Roanoke’s Mill Mountain Advisory Board and a member of the Roanoke Kiwanis Club.</p> <p>Dave has a master’s degree in park and resource management from Slippery Rock University and a bachelor’s degree in geography from James Madison University. Prior to coming to the land trust, he was employed with the Wicomico County Department of Recreation, Parks and Tourism in Salisbury, MD and as a district executive with the East Carolina Council of the Boy Scouts of America in Kinston, NC. He, his wife and two sons live in southwest Roanoke</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Networking with Local Nonprofits in Central Virginia</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/networking-with-local-nonprofits-in-central-virginia</link>
      <description>Networking with Local Nonprofits in Central Virginia
 Read the Transcript Hugh Ballou: This is a special edition today of The Nonprofit Exchange. I am attending a nonprofit trade show and networking event, Central Virginia Business Coalition. I’m here with Heather Alto. Heather, what’s your vision for this event today?
 Heather Alto: Basically, our vision for this event, we decided to put about a community event focused on nonprofit organizations because they don’t really have the avenue to get out and do bigger business expos due to the cost. We wanted to have a one-stop shop where people could come in and learn about the nonprofits in our area. A lot of this is about awareness, but also it’s a place where people could bring donations today, whether it’s food or coats or household items. Anything like that. This is the place to do it. A one-stop area where you can learn, volunteer, and donate.
 Hugh: We’ve just gotten acquainted. I’m going to go around and visit with some of the nonprofits here. Thank you, Heather.
 Heather: Thank you.
 Hugh: I’m going to let them tell a little bit about what they do and why they’re doing it. Here’s Tracy. Tell them who you are and what this organization is that you represent.
 Tracye Dixon: I’m Tracey Dixon. I’m executive director at Lynchburg Daily Bread. Hugh is my friend from the rotary club. My real job is a soup kitchen in downtown Lynchburg. We are looking for canned sweet potatoes, green beans, and gravy for our Thanksgiving meal. If anybody would like to help with that, we would love and appreciate it.
 Hugh: Tracey is a legend here. She’s very active. We happen to be in the city that’s got some of the highest poverty in the commonwealth of Virginia.
 Tracey: It’s true.
 Hugh: We have a lot of hungry people. She and her team and a whole lot of volunteers are very active all the time.
 Tracey: Every day. We are open every day of the year. We’ll be open on Christmas because people need to eat on Christmas, too. Grateful for your support, Hugh. Thanks for being here.
 Hugh: Blessings. We have people watching from all over, wondering what’s going on here.
 So we’re going to go to another one. Hope for today. Help and Hope. Tell us who you are and what your organization is. This is our first time we’ve met. What is this organization, and who are you?
 Sam: This is World Hope. I’m Sam.
 Sarah Johnson: I’m Sarah.
 Sam: And we are a humanitarian organization raising money to sponsor kids, get them education, clean water, clothing. We help build churches and schools, bring clean water to villages.
 Sarah: Our biggest thing that we do is child sponsorship. People can rescue a child out of poverty and get them education, clean food, and water for $35 a month. We have children in over 20 countries. 11,000 children right now.
 Hugh: How many?
 Sarah: I think it’s between 10 and 11,000 children in our programs around the world.
 Hugh: Around the world?
 Sarah: Yes.
 Hugh: We’re in central Virginia. This is Lynchburg. We are reaching out to the world. SynerVision Leadership Foundation supports charities all over the world. We support with the infrastructure of leadership development, board development, funding. I’m going around the trade show and giving you some exposure. This is a show we do every week called The Nonprofit Exchange. Thanks for sharing your ideas. Somebody somewhere will know somebody in one of your areas. Where do they find you? what’s the URL?
 Sarah: WorldHelp.net
 Hugh: WorldHelp.net. Thank you for sharing. Let’s see who else is here and what they’re doing.
 I talked to you all before. These couple charming ladies. Tell me about this charity. It’s really special. Claire Parker Foundation.
 Bethany Egland: I’m Bethany, and I’m the director of programs and family services at the Claire Parker Foundation. We support families that have children with cancer and have partnered hospitals all across the region. We’re in 15 different ones from Tennessee to Texas, which is pretty incredible. We have different programs that we provide from the beginning of the diagnosis to the end. A bunch of different programs to keep kids occupied in the hospital and to support families through the journey financially, emotionally, and even to the end, if they end up losing a child, we have support in that areas as well.
 Hugh: We have wonderful gift kits here for the children and families.
 Bethany: This is their care box they get right after diagnosis. This is our birthday box to celebrate birthdays. They get a banner, a birthday pillowcase, and a gift card to Amazon.
 Hugh: Where can they find Claire Parker on the Internet?
 Bethany: ClaireParkerFoundation.org. We’re on Facebook and Instagram.
 Hugh: I just captured somebody you may know also. Jessica Arrington. What’s the organization that you work with? What do you do there?
 Jessica Arrington: Patrick Henry Family Services. I am the volunteer coordinator. I help with all our program ministries to make sure we have the support we need and our mission and vision stay going.  
 Hugh: What do you do? Who do you do it for?
 Jessica: Volunteer coordinator for Patrick Henry Family Services. I work with all the volunteers, with every program ministry.
 Hugh: Tell us about Patrick Henry.
 Jessica: We have several program ministries such as Save Family for Children, expanded families, Vision 30, that makes sure every child is in a safe home, in a safe environment wrapped around by the community by 2030. We believe that can happen with your help, partners, agencies, churches, and families. We also have our Hat Creek Camp and our counseling services and so much more.
 Hugh: Jessica is also a friend from the local rotary. She’s been on our show before with the program Power of We.
 Jessica: Power of We Lynchburg.
 Hugh: Let’s go look at your banner for Patrick Henry. Who’s this person?
 Jessica: This is Nicolette.
 Nicolette: Nice to meet you, Facebook.
 Jessica:  She works with our girls’ and boys’ homes. We have Lisa.
 Hugh: What does Lisa do?
 Lisa: I’m the case manager for residential care.  
 Hugh: And this is Patrick Henry Family Services. They can find you online at PatrickHenry.org. Thank you.
 Here’s Billy. Billy was on The Nonprofit Exchange recently. Billy told the story about the sports outreach. They know your story. Thank you.
 Here is Humankind. Do you want to share? Tell us who you are and what Humankind is.
 Tiffany Rodriguez: I am Tiffany Rodriguez. I am in the treatment foster care. Humankind has over 20 different programs. We are community outreach. Our main office is here in Lynchburg, but we also service other areas throughout Virginia. We have anywhere from counseling, treatment, foster care, community outreach. We work with kids who have autism. There is also a daycare. This is one of our new treatment foster care case workers. This is Ashley, and we are very happy to add her to our team. We are excited to be part of this opportunity as well. Thanks so much for having us.
 Hugh: Where can people find Humankind online?
 Tiffany: If they go to Humankind.org, then you’ll be able to see all of our resources that we have. If you have any specific questions, you can always email us.
 Hugh: It’s a worthy work place. Thank you for sharing with us.
 Why don’t you tell people who you are and what is this organization that you represent?
 Sandra Bermudez: I’m Sandra Bermudez. I am representing Braley &amp; Thompson Foster Care in central Virginia. We have over nine offices in the state of Virginia. My office is in Lynchburg. We have been in business for over 30 years in Virginia for children and families. We work with children 0-17 and provide foster families. If you are interested in becoming a foster family, you can visit us at BraleyThompson.com.  
 Hugh: Love it. Thank you for being here today. Here’s one called Well of Grace. Who is this back here? Susan. What is this organization, and what does it do?
 Susan: Well of Grace helps ladies who have had breast surgery. We help with items their insurance may not pay or does not totally cover. That could be a lymphedema sleeve, whatever they need. We help them get those items.  
 Hugh: This is a lot of good people doing good work here. Where can they find Well of Grace online?
 Susan: They can find it at WellofGrace.org. They can also go through Absolute Perfection, who are the people who support our nonprofit.
 Hugh: WellofGrace.org. Thank you, Susan.
 Amazement Square. I’ve been to your organization with grandchildren. Tell them who you are.
 Jamie Shetley: Sure. I’m Jamie Shetley. I am the manager of donor and member relations of Amazement Square. We are here today talking about the 50% of work that we do that people don’t know about, which is outside of the museum. We are talking about sponsorships for school programs. We are talking about our new initiative, Amazing Children Smart Beginnings, which is sponsored with a grant from the Institute of Museum and Library Services. We are talking about our new education center. All sorts of things going on.
 Hugh: Amazement Square is in what used to be a old warehouse. One time, Lynchburg was the second wealthiest city in the country. We had a lot of tobacco and leather warehouses in town, which are now dormant. Now, there’s a bunch of new things. One of them is quite amazing. I have been there twice at least with grandchildren, which was an excuse for me to play. It’s quite an amazing thing. Sometime, Lynchburg Symphony will do something musical with you.
 Jamie: Our new education center is open now. It has a huge exhibit space. It can seat over 350 people. We have the space for it. We just want people to know this space is available.
 Hugh: Where can people find you online?
 Jamie: AmazementSquare.org.
 Hugh: Tell us who you are and what do you represent?
 Susan Campbell: I’m Susan Campbell, the executive director of the Blue Ridge Pregnancy Center. This is Julia and Julie. They’re both on staff at BRPC. We are a crisis pregnancy center. We help the woman who is in crisis and in need for options and counseling for unplanned pregnancy.
 Hugh: A lot of important work. Where can people find you online?
 Susan: BRPCFriends.org. We are located right next to Lynchburg General Hospital, one street over on Thompson Drive.
 Hugh: Thank you. There is quite a few amazing people doing amazing stuff. This is Elise. tell them who you are and what the organization is about.
 Elise Spontarelli: Elise Spontarelli with Vector Space. We are a community maker space. We have 12,000 square feet of tools: woodworking, blacksmithing, metalworking, 3D printers, laser cutters, sewing, all the tools. We do membership for adults so you can use those tools. We do safety training, and then we set you free on the tools. We do workshops to teach the tools. We do STEM education with high schoolers. Some cool projects.
 Hugh: I only found out recently about maker spaces. Describe what a maker space is. It’s quite amazing.
 Elise: Thank you. It’s a space for people to collaborate. A lot of folks have maybe a woodshop at home or some welding equipment or a 3D printer on their desk, but nobody has all of the tools together. Our members are everyone from engineers to fine artists. We have teachers and entrepreneurs and all sorts of folks with different backgrounds and different skills, coming together and learning together and teaching each other. A big part of our membership is member meet-ups and peer learning. Folks are teaching the skills they know and learning from other people new skills. We bring those together in cool ways. And teaching kids how to use these tools, too.
 Hugh: They’re super cool. It’s part craft, part art. Where can people find Vector Space online?
 Elise: Vector-Space.org. We’re also on Facebook and Instagram. If they want to come out and see us, the first Friday of every month, we do an open house from 5-8pm.
 Hugh: We’re in Lynchburg, Virginia. Every first Friday, it’s a happening place downtown with art galleries and the craft space and maker space is beyond that. Thank you for sharing.
 Elise: Thanks, Hugh.
 Hugh: That’s quite an amazing entity. Let’s find somebody who’s free. Hey, there. I’ve seen you before. But I forgot. Can you stand up and talk? She has healthy options. Everyone has sugar-loaded candy. Tell people who you are and what is it you’re doing here? What is this organization?
 Jane Massey: I am Jane Massey with the Alzheimer’s Association in Central and Western Virginia. This is Ginny Simmons. Ginny serves on our walk planning committee. The Alzheimer’s Association is a nonprofit that is trying to find a cure for Alzheimer’s. That is basically our vision: a world without Alzheimer’s Disease.
 Hugh: Say your vision.
 Jane: A world without Alzheimer’s Disease.
 Hugh: I was just working on vision statements for my nonprofit. It’s really hard. That is a picture: a world without Alzheimer’s. Here’s a lesson right here. A vision is a picture of what it looks like. You can say that without reading it.
 Jane: Yes, I can. It’s a really important vision statement. The Alzheimer’s Association, we are the largest nonprofit organization in the world providing research. We are only #3 behind the Chinese government and the U.S. government in funding research. Our goal is to fight a cure, sustainable ways to live with the disease by 2025. We have an aggressive format going on. Our goal is to do it. We currently provide international research as well as local programs and services. One of our biggest events to raise awareness and funds is our walk to end Alzheimer’s. That’s where Ginny comes in. Ginny is our logistics chair. Want to share your experience about being on the committee?
 Ginny Simpson: Sure. I have been on the committee now with the Alzheimer’s Association for probably 15+ years or so. I’ve been very involved. I don’t have a personal connection, but I professionally work with those affected with dementia and Alzheimer’s. It’s been a joy and a pleasure working and serving the community trying to find a cure for this terrible disease.
 Hugh: There are probably walks all over the country.
 Ginny: Yes, there are.
 Hugh: Where can people find out more about Alzheimer’s Association?
 Jane: Alz.org. One of the things I do want to share that a lot of people don’t realize is that the Alzheimer’s Association not only covers and manages Alzheimer’s, which is the most common form of dementia, but we cover all dementias. We have an award-winning website where you can find information about vascular dementia, Parkinson’s disease because those are forms of dementia.
 Hugh: If people don’t know if they have something, can they or their family go and find out?
 Jane: Yes, they can go to the website. One of the things, if somebody is concerned about having some forgetfulness that is affecting your daily life, the first thing we recommend is seeing a doctor. Sometimes, it’s not Alzheimer’s. It can be something as easy as an infection, or it might be some drug interactions that are not working properly. That can cause memory issues. It’s really important to get that checked out.
 Hugh: Great, thank you. Go to Alz.org. Easy. Thank you for your good work.
 Who are you? Here is their banner. Tell us who you are. What is this organization about?
 Andy Cohen: I’m Andy Cohen. I’m the executive director of Harmony Day Support. We have services for adults with disabilities all throughout the day so they can live as autonomously as we do every single day. We’re excited about the opportunity to help them grow socially, academically, athletically, spiritually, all over. We have about 9,600 individuals we serve here locally. We are in the process of implementing and adding new services daily.
 Hugh: Is this a local organization?
 Andy: Local.
 Hugh: We’re in central Virginia. You might know somebody here. It’s HarmonyDaySupport.org. Thank you.
 Tell us who you are. What is this organization? Why does it exist?
 Adam Pavao: My name is Adam Pavao. I am the executive director of foster care services at Impact Living Services. We exist to serve youth aging out of foster care and youth in foster care. We’re a relatively young nonprofit. Started in 2012 just in Lynchburg, Virginia to work with those kids aging out. Youth aging out of foster care have really bad outcomes. One in four are incarcerated before 21. One in five are homeless within a year. 71% of girls get pregnant before the age of 21. Less than 4% graduate from college.
 We have apartments and town homes we place them in. We get connected to employment and education and teach them how to be adults. We also have a foster care program where we work with teens in foster care. That population has a hard time getting placed with families. We believe kids should be with families and kids should have connections. We work with those families to train them, to provide support to them to make sure those kids and teens are in the home. We have offices in Lynchburg, Roanoke, Harrisonburg, and Richmond.
 Hugh: Those are Virginia cities. This is a nice banner they have. A little bit about what they do here. What is the URL for your website?
 Adam: It is ImpactLivingServices.org.
 Hugh: Thank you, sir.
 Allison Zuba: These are some of the best nonprofit leaders in Lynchburg.
 Hugh: Who are you?
 Allison: I’m Allison Zuba.
 Hugh: Who are you?
 Linda Bright: I’m Linda Bright, the program manager for Bedford Ride.
 Vicky Craig: I’m Vicky Craig, the public relations coordinator for the Central Virginia Alliance for Community Living, your area agency on aging.
 Hugh: Whoa, my peer group.
 Allison: I’m Allison Zuba. I’m the executive director at the Adult Care Center, the best place to spend your day in Lynchburg.
 Hugh: Adult Care Center. Do you all work together? Or I just happened to catch you together.
 Allison: We don’t get to work together a lot, but we certainly support each other’s organizations.
 Hugh: Tell us about Adult Care Center. Tell us about CVACL.
 Allison: The Adult Care Center has folks who need a little extra help and still want to live at home, but have a great place to be during the day. Folks come to us Monday through Friday, play games, have great food, and enjoy themselves immensely. Laughter is the key to the day here.
 Hugh: My wife might be calling you. Tell us about this organization.
 Linda: Bedford Ride, we are a program of the Central Virginia Alliance for Community Living. We do non-emergency medical training and transportation for Bedford residents who are unable to drive. All of our drivers are carefully vetted volunteers. We have over 90 volunteers, 20 wheelchair accessible vans, and five cars.
 Hugh: We are in central Virginia. Bedford is the next town over. Look at this. Be a Santa to a Senior.
 Vicky: Right now, at the Central Virginia Alliance for Community Living, we are doing a Be a Santa to a Senior program. That is when we provide Christmas presents for our clients and others throughout the area. We do need people to come and take our tags. This is how we provide Christmas to seniors who otherwise wouldn’t have Christmas.
 Hugh: Where can they find you online?
 Vicky: CVACL.org.
 Hugh: And where can they find Adult Care Center?
 Allison: AdultCareCenter.org.
 Linda: And Bedford Ride is BedfordRide-CVACL.org.
 Hugh: Those are places you can find these ladies.
 Do you want to talk about Meals on Wheels? People have heard of Meals on Wheels but may not know much about it. Tell people who you are and what you’re representing here.
 Janet Lomax: I’m Janet Lomax. I am representing on Meals on Wheels of greater Lynchburg.
 Hugh: People may have heard about it, but they don’t know what Meals on Wheels is about.
 Janet: Meals on Wheels delivers hot meals every day, Monday through Friday, to home-bound individuals who cannot prepare a nutritious meal for themselves or who do not have a person who can prepare nutritious meals for them. This Meals on Wheels delivers those meals for them, filling the gap for them.
 Hugh: We do have a pretty large need. We have a segment under the poverty line in Lynchburg, don’t we?
 Janet: Yes, we do.
 Hugh: Where can people find you online?
 Janet: They can to go MealsLynchburg.org.
 Hugh: Thank you for standing up and telling your story. Let’s see who I haven’t interviewed yet. Tell people who you are and what’s this organization you’re representing.
 Teresa: Thank you so much. I’m Teresa Davis. I’m the communications director at Gleaning for the World. We are located in Concord, Virginia. We focus on disaster relief and humanitarian aid locally here in Central Virginia, and nationally and internationally as well.
 Hugh: Gleaning for the World. What is it about? What do you do?
 Teresa: Our mission statement is to share the love of God at home and around the world. That’s what we’re doing. We’re sharing God’s love by meeting tangible needs to people in need.
 Hugh: Like what? Give me an instance.
 Teresa: For example, right now, we have a truck on the way to California to help the people staying in shelters because of the Kincaid wildfire. This morning, they are back at the warehouse loading a truck headed to Jordan to bring clothes and basic materials to the refugees there.
 Hugh: Wow. Where can people find you online?
 Teresa: GFTW.org.
 Hugh: Thank you for sharing your story.
 What are you doing here? Connect Networking Group. Who are you, and what is this organization?
 Elizabeth Snyder: I’m Elizabeth Snyder. I am with the Connect Lynchburg Group. I like to say we are the Angie’s List of Lynchburg because we have our businesses that we refer each other out and we do networking. The reason why we’re here today is we also do a lot of work in the community. That’s part of being a member of Connect. We do community work.
 Hugh: Love it. Where can people find you online?
 Elizabeth: We have a website. We’re on Facebook. Our web URL is LynchburgConnect.com.
 Hugh: I think I’ve made the rounds. Thank you for coming by! Tell others the story of some of these great nonprofits and what they’re doing.
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      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Nov 2019 20:13:22 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/76799506-b329-11eb-9f0f-93ff7672b626/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Power of Networking</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Networking with Local Nonprofits in Central Virginia
 Read the Transcript Hugh Ballou: This is a special edition today of The Nonprofit Exchange. I am attending a nonprofit trade show and networking event, Central Virginia Business Coalition. I’m here with Heather Alto. Heather, what’s your vision for this event today?
 Heather Alto: Basically, our vision for this event, we decided to put about a community event focused on nonprofit organizations because they don’t really have the avenue to get out and do bigger business expos due to the cost. We wanted to have a one-stop shop where people could come in and learn about the nonprofits in our area. A lot of this is about awareness, but also it’s a place where people could bring donations today, whether it’s food or coats or household items. Anything like that. This is the place to do it. A one-stop area where you can learn, volunteer, and donate.
 Hugh: We’ve just gotten acquainted. I’m going to go around and visit with some of the nonprofits here. Thank you, Heather.
 Heather: Thank you.
 Hugh: I’m going to let them tell a little bit about what they do and why they’re doing it. Here’s Tracy. Tell them who you are and what this organization is that you represent.
 Tracye Dixon: I’m Tracey Dixon. I’m executive director at Lynchburg Daily Bread. Hugh is my friend from the rotary club. My real job is a soup kitchen in downtown Lynchburg. We are looking for canned sweet potatoes, green beans, and gravy for our Thanksgiving meal. If anybody would like to help with that, we would love and appreciate it.
 Hugh: Tracey is a legend here. She’s very active. We happen to be in the city that’s got some of the highest poverty in the commonwealth of Virginia.
 Tracey: It’s true.
 Hugh: We have a lot of hungry people. She and her team and a whole lot of volunteers are very active all the time.
 Tracey: Every day. We are open every day of the year. We’ll be open on Christmas because people need to eat on Christmas, too. Grateful for your support, Hugh. Thanks for being here.
 Hugh: Blessings. We have people watching from all over, wondering what’s going on here.
 So we’re going to go to another one. Hope for today. Help and Hope. Tell us who you are and what your organization is. This is our first time we’ve met. What is this organization, and who are you?
 Sam: This is World Hope. I’m Sam.
 Sarah Johnson: I’m Sarah.
 Sam: And we are a humanitarian organization raising money to sponsor kids, get them education, clean water, clothing. We help build churches and schools, bring clean water to villages.
 Sarah: Our biggest thing that we do is child sponsorship. People can rescue a child out of poverty and get them education, clean food, and water for $35 a month. We have children in over 20 countries. 11,000 children right now.
 Hugh: How many?
 Sarah: I think it’s between 10 and 11,000 children in our programs around the world.
 Hugh: Around the world?
 Sarah: Yes.
 Hugh: We’re in central Virginia. This is Lynchburg. We are reaching out to the world. SynerVision Leadership Foundation supports charities all over the world. We support with the infrastructure of leadership development, board development, funding. I’m going around the trade show and giving you some exposure. This is a show we do every week called The Nonprofit Exchange. Thanks for sharing your ideas. Somebody somewhere will know somebody in one of your areas. Where do they find you? what’s the URL?
 Sarah: WorldHelp.net
 Hugh: WorldHelp.net. Thank you for sharing. Let’s see who else is here and what they’re doing.
 I talked to you all before. These couple charming ladies. Tell me about this charity. It’s really special. Claire Parker Foundation.
 Bethany Egland: I’m Bethany, and I’m the director of programs and family services at the Claire Parker Foundation. We support families that have children with cancer and have partnered hospitals all across the region. We’re in 15 different ones from Tennessee to Texas, which is pretty incredible. We have different programs that we provide from the beginning of the diagnosis to the end. A bunch of different programs to keep kids occupied in the hospital and to support families through the journey financially, emotionally, and even to the end, if they end up losing a child, we have support in that areas as well.
 Hugh: We have wonderful gift kits here for the children and families.
 Bethany: This is their care box they get right after diagnosis. This is our birthday box to celebrate birthdays. They get a banner, a birthday pillowcase, and a gift card to Amazon.
 Hugh: Where can they find Claire Parker on the Internet?
 Bethany: ClaireParkerFoundation.org. We’re on Facebook and Instagram.
 Hugh: I just captured somebody you may know also. Jessica Arrington. What’s the organization that you work with? What do you do there?
 Jessica Arrington: Patrick Henry Family Services. I am the volunteer coordinator. I help with all our program ministries to make sure we have the support we need and our mission and vision stay going.  
 Hugh: What do you do? Who do you do it for?
 Jessica: Volunteer coordinator for Patrick Henry Family Services. I work with all the volunteers, with every program ministry.
 Hugh: Tell us about Patrick Henry.
 Jessica: We have several program ministries such as Save Family for Children, expanded families, Vision 30, that makes sure every child is in a safe home, in a safe environment wrapped around by the community by 2030. We believe that can happen with your help, partners, agencies, churches, and families. We also have our Hat Creek Camp and our counseling services and so much more.
 Hugh: Jessica is also a friend from the local rotary. She’s been on our show before with the program Power of We.
 Jessica: Power of We Lynchburg.
 Hugh: Let’s go look at your banner for Patrick Henry. Who’s this person?
 Jessica: This is Nicolette.
 Nicolette: Nice to meet you, Facebook.
 Jessica:  She works with our girls’ and boys’ homes. We have Lisa.
 Hugh: What does Lisa do?
 Lisa: I’m the case manager for residential care.  
 Hugh: And this is Patrick Henry Family Services. They can find you online at PatrickHenry.org. Thank you.
 Here’s Billy. Billy was on The Nonprofit Exchange recently. Billy told the story about the sports outreach. They know your story. Thank you.
 Here is Humankind. Do you want to share? Tell us who you are and what Humankind is.
 Tiffany Rodriguez: I am Tiffany Rodriguez. I am in the treatment foster care. Humankind has over 20 different programs. We are community outreach. Our main office is here in Lynchburg, but we also service other areas throughout Virginia. We have anywhere from counseling, treatment, foster care, community outreach. We work with kids who have autism. There is also a daycare. This is one of our new treatment foster care case workers. This is Ashley, and we are very happy to add her to our team. We are excited to be part of this opportunity as well. Thanks so much for having us.
 Hugh: Where can people find Humankind online?
 Tiffany: If they go to Humankind.org, then you’ll be able to see all of our resources that we have. If you have any specific questions, you can always email us.
 Hugh: It’s a worthy work place. Thank you for sharing with us.
 Why don’t you tell people who you are and what is this organization that you represent?
 Sandra Bermudez: I’m Sandra Bermudez. I am representing Braley &amp; Thompson Foster Care in central Virginia. We have over nine offices in the state of Virginia. My office is in Lynchburg. We have been in business for over 30 years in Virginia for children and families. We work with children 0-17 and provide foster families. If you are interested in becoming a foster family, you can visit us at BraleyThompson.com.  
 Hugh: Love it. Thank you for being here today. Here’s one called Well of Grace. Who is this back here? Susan. What is this organization, and what does it do?
 Susan: Well of Grace helps ladies who have had breast surgery. We help with items their insurance may not pay or does not totally cover. That could be a lymphedema sleeve, whatever they need. We help them get those items.  
 Hugh: This is a lot of good people doing good work here. Where can they find Well of Grace online?
 Susan: They can find it at WellofGrace.org. They can also go through Absolute Perfection, who are the people who support our nonprofit.
 Hugh: WellofGrace.org. Thank you, Susan.
 Amazement Square. I’ve been to your organization with grandchildren. Tell them who you are.
 Jamie Shetley: Sure. I’m Jamie Shetley. I am the manager of donor and member relations of Amazement Square. We are here today talking about the 50% of work that we do that people don’t know about, which is outside of the museum. We are talking about sponsorships for school programs. We are talking about our new initiative, Amazing Children Smart Beginnings, which is sponsored with a grant from the Institute of Museum and Library Services. We are talking about our new education center. All sorts of things going on.
 Hugh: Amazement Square is in what used to be a old warehouse. One time, Lynchburg was the second wealthiest city in the country. We had a lot of tobacco and leather warehouses in town, which are now dormant. Now, there’s a bunch of new things. One of them is quite amazing. I have been there twice at least with grandchildren, which was an excuse for me to play. It’s quite an amazing thing. Sometime, Lynchburg Symphony will do something musical with you.
 Jamie: Our new education center is open now. It has a huge exhibit space. It can seat over 350 people. We have the space for it. We just want people to know this space is available.
 Hugh: Where can people find you online?
 Jamie: AmazementSquare.org.
 Hugh: Tell us who you are and what do you represent?
 Susan Campbell: I’m Susan Campbell, the executive director of the Blue Ridge Pregnancy Center. This is Julia and Julie. They’re both on staff at BRPC. We are a crisis pregnancy center. We help the woman who is in crisis and in need for options and counseling for unplanned pregnancy.
 Hugh: A lot of important work. Where can people find you online?
 Susan: BRPCFriends.org. We are located right next to Lynchburg General Hospital, one street over on Thompson Drive.
 Hugh: Thank you. There is quite a few amazing people doing amazing stuff. This is Elise. tell them who you are and what the organization is about.
 Elise Spontarelli: Elise Spontarelli with Vector Space. We are a community maker space. We have 12,000 square feet of tools: woodworking, blacksmithing, metalworking, 3D printers, laser cutters, sewing, all the tools. We do membership for adults so you can use those tools. We do safety training, and then we set you free on the tools. We do workshops to teach the tools. We do STEM education with high schoolers. Some cool projects.
 Hugh: I only found out recently about maker spaces. Describe what a maker space is. It’s quite amazing.
 Elise: Thank you. It’s a space for people to collaborate. A lot of folks have maybe a woodshop at home or some welding equipment or a 3D printer on their desk, but nobody has all of the tools together. Our members are everyone from engineers to fine artists. We have teachers and entrepreneurs and all sorts of folks with different backgrounds and different skills, coming together and learning together and teaching each other. A big part of our membership is member meet-ups and peer learning. Folks are teaching the skills they know and learning from other people new skills. We bring those together in cool ways. And teaching kids how to use these tools, too.
 Hugh: They’re super cool. It’s part craft, part art. Where can people find Vector Space online?
 Elise: Vector-Space.org. We’re also on Facebook and Instagram. If they want to come out and see us, the first Friday of every month, we do an open house from 5-8pm.
 Hugh: We’re in Lynchburg, Virginia. Every first Friday, it’s a happening place downtown with art galleries and the craft space and maker space is beyond that. Thank you for sharing.
 Elise: Thanks, Hugh.
 Hugh: That’s quite an amazing entity. Let’s find somebody who’s free. Hey, there. I’ve seen you before. But I forgot. Can you stand up and talk? She has healthy options. Everyone has sugar-loaded candy. Tell people who you are and what is it you’re doing here? What is this organization?
 Jane Massey: I am Jane Massey with the Alzheimer’s Association in Central and Western Virginia. This is Ginny Simmons. Ginny serves on our walk planning committee. The Alzheimer’s Association is a nonprofit that is trying to find a cure for Alzheimer’s. That is basically our vision: a world without Alzheimer’s Disease.
 Hugh: Say your vision.
 Jane: A world without Alzheimer’s Disease.
 Hugh: I was just working on vision statements for my nonprofit. It’s really hard. That is a picture: a world without Alzheimer’s. Here’s a lesson right here. A vision is a picture of what it looks like. You can say that without reading it.
 Jane: Yes, I can. It’s a really important vision statement. The Alzheimer’s Association, we are the largest nonprofit organization in the world providing research. We are only #3 behind the Chinese government and the U.S. government in funding research. Our goal is to fight a cure, sustainable ways to live with the disease by 2025. We have an aggressive format going on. Our goal is to do it. We currently provide international research as well as local programs and services. One of our biggest events to raise awareness and funds is our walk to end Alzheimer’s. That’s where Ginny comes in. Ginny is our logistics chair. Want to share your experience about being on the committee?
 Ginny Simpson: Sure. I have been on the committee now with the Alzheimer’s Association for probably 15+ years or so. I’ve been very involved. I don’t have a personal connection, but I professionally work with those affected with dementia and Alzheimer’s. It’s been a joy and a pleasure working and serving the community trying to find a cure for this terrible disease.
 Hugh: There are probably walks all over the country.
 Ginny: Yes, there are.
 Hugh: Where can people find out more about Alzheimer’s Association?
 Jane: Alz.org. One of the things I do want to share that a lot of people don’t realize is that the Alzheimer’s Association not only covers and manages Alzheimer’s, which is the most common form of dementia, but we cover all dementias. We have an award-winning website where you can find information about vascular dementia, Parkinson’s disease because those are forms of dementia.
 Hugh: If people don’t know if they have something, can they or their family go and find out?
 Jane: Yes, they can go to the website. One of the things, if somebody is concerned about having some forgetfulness that is affecting your daily life, the first thing we recommend is seeing a doctor. Sometimes, it’s not Alzheimer’s. It can be something as easy as an infection, or it might be some drug interactions that are not working properly. That can cause memory issues. It’s really important to get that checked out.
 Hugh: Great, thank you. Go to Alz.org. Easy. Thank you for your good work.
 Who are you? Here is their banner. Tell us who you are. What is this organization about?
 Andy Cohen: I’m Andy Cohen. I’m the executive director of Harmony Day Support. We have services for adults with disabilities all throughout the day so they can live as autonomously as we do every single day. We’re excited about the opportunity to help them grow socially, academically, athletically, spiritually, all over. We have about 9,600 individuals we serve here locally. We are in the process of implementing and adding new services daily.
 Hugh: Is this a local organization?
 Andy: Local.
 Hugh: We’re in central Virginia. You might know somebody here. It’s HarmonyDaySupport.org. Thank you.
 Tell us who you are. What is this organization? Why does it exist?
 Adam Pavao: My name is Adam Pavao. I am the executive director of foster care services at Impact Living Services. We exist to serve youth aging out of foster care and youth in foster care. We’re a relatively young nonprofit. Started in 2012 just in Lynchburg, Virginia to work with those kids aging out. Youth aging out of foster care have really bad outcomes. One in four are incarcerated before 21. One in five are homeless within a year. 71% of girls get pregnant before the age of 21. Less than 4% graduate from college.
 We have apartments and town homes we place them in. We get connected to employment and education and teach them how to be adults. We also have a foster care program where we work with teens in foster care. That population has a hard time getting placed with families. We believe kids should be with families and kids should have connections. We work with those families to train them, to provide support to them to make sure those kids and teens are in the home. We have offices in Lynchburg, Roanoke, Harrisonburg, and Richmond.
 Hugh: Those are Virginia cities. This is a nice banner they have. A little bit about what they do here. What is the URL for your website?
 Adam: It is ImpactLivingServices.org.
 Hugh: Thank you, sir.
 Allison Zuba: These are some of the best nonprofit leaders in Lynchburg.
 Hugh: Who are you?
 Allison: I’m Allison Zuba.
 Hugh: Who are you?
 Linda Bright: I’m Linda Bright, the program manager for Bedford Ride.
 Vicky Craig: I’m Vicky Craig, the public relations coordinator for the Central Virginia Alliance for Community Living, your area agency on aging.
 Hugh: Whoa, my peer group.
 Allison: I’m Allison Zuba. I’m the executive director at the Adult Care Center, the best place to spend your day in Lynchburg.
 Hugh: Adult Care Center. Do you all work together? Or I just happened to catch you together.
 Allison: We don’t get to work together a lot, but we certainly support each other’s organizations.
 Hugh: Tell us about Adult Care Center. Tell us about CVACL.
 Allison: The Adult Care Center has folks who need a little extra help and still want to live at home, but have a great place to be during the day. Folks come to us Monday through Friday, play games, have great food, and enjoy themselves immensely. Laughter is the key to the day here.
 Hugh: My wife might be calling you. Tell us about this organization.
 Linda: Bedford Ride, we are a program of the Central Virginia Alliance for Community Living. We do non-emergency medical training and transportation for Bedford residents who are unable to drive. All of our drivers are carefully vetted volunteers. We have over 90 volunteers, 20 wheelchair accessible vans, and five cars.
 Hugh: We are in central Virginia. Bedford is the next town over. Look at this. Be a Santa to a Senior.
 Vicky: Right now, at the Central Virginia Alliance for Community Living, we are doing a Be a Santa to a Senior program. That is when we provide Christmas presents for our clients and others throughout the area. We do need people to come and take our tags. This is how we provide Christmas to seniors who otherwise wouldn’t have Christmas.
 Hugh: Where can they find you online?
 Vicky: CVACL.org.
 Hugh: And where can they find Adult Care Center?
 Allison: AdultCareCenter.org.
 Linda: And Bedford Ride is BedfordRide-CVACL.org.
 Hugh: Those are places you can find these ladies.
 Do you want to talk about Meals on Wheels? People have heard of Meals on Wheels but may not know much about it. Tell people who you are and what you’re representing here.
 Janet Lomax: I’m Janet Lomax. I am representing on Meals on Wheels of greater Lynchburg.
 Hugh: People may have heard about it, but they don’t know what Meals on Wheels is about.
 Janet: Meals on Wheels delivers hot meals every day, Monday through Friday, to home-bound individuals who cannot prepare a nutritious meal for themselves or who do not have a person who can prepare nutritious meals for them. This Meals on Wheels delivers those meals for them, filling the gap for them.
 Hugh: We do have a pretty large need. We have a segment under the poverty line in Lynchburg, don’t we?
 Janet: Yes, we do.
 Hugh: Where can people find you online?
 Janet: They can to go MealsLynchburg.org.
 Hugh: Thank you for standing up and telling your story. Let’s see who I haven’t interviewed yet. Tell people who you are and what’s this organization you’re representing.
 Teresa: Thank you so much. I’m Teresa Davis. I’m the communications director at Gleaning for the World. We are located in Concord, Virginia. We focus on disaster relief and humanitarian aid locally here in Central Virginia, and nationally and internationally as well.
 Hugh: Gleaning for the World. What is it about? What do you do?
 Teresa: Our mission statement is to share the love of God at home and around the world. That’s what we’re doing. We’re sharing God’s love by meeting tangible needs to people in need.
 Hugh: Like what? Give me an instance.
 Teresa: For example, right now, we have a truck on the way to California to help the people staying in shelters because of the Kincaid wildfire. This morning, they are back at the warehouse loading a truck headed to Jordan to bring clothes and basic materials to the refugees there.
 Hugh: Wow. Where can people find you online?
 Teresa: GFTW.org.
 Hugh: Thank you for sharing your story.
 What are you doing here? Connect Networking Group. Who are you, and what is this organization?
 Elizabeth Snyder: I’m Elizabeth Snyder. I am with the Connect Lynchburg Group. I like to say we are the Angie’s List of Lynchburg because we have our businesses that we refer each other out and we do networking. The reason why we’re here today is we also do a lot of work in the community. That’s part of being a member of Connect. We do community work.
 Hugh: Love it. Where can people find you online?
 Elizabeth: We have a website. We’re on Facebook. Our web URL is LynchburgConnect.com.
 Hugh: I think I’ve made the rounds. Thank you for coming by! Tell others the story of some of these great nonprofits and what they’re doing.
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Networking with Local Nonprofits in Central Virginia</strong></h1> Read the Transcript <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> This is a special edition today of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> I am attending a nonprofit trade show and networking event, Central Virginia Business Coalition. I’m here with Heather Alto. Heather, what’s your vision for this event today?</p> <p><strong>Heather Alto:</strong> Basically, our vision for this event, we decided to put about a community event focused on nonprofit organizations because they don’t really have the avenue to get out and do bigger business expos due to the cost. We wanted to have a one-stop shop where people could come in and learn about the nonprofits in our area. A lot of this is about awareness, but also it’s a place where people could bring donations today, whether it’s food or coats or household items. Anything like that. This is the place to do it. A one-stop area where you can learn, volunteer, and donate.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’ve just gotten acquainted. I’m going to go around and visit with some of the nonprofits here. Thank you, Heather.</p> <p><strong>Heather:</strong> Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m going to let them tell a little bit about what they do and why they’re doing it. Here’s Tracy. Tell them who you are and what this organization is that you represent.</p> <p><strong>Tracye Dixon:</strong> I’m Tracey Dixon. I’m executive director at Lynchburg Daily Bread. Hugh is my friend from the rotary club. My real job is a soup kitchen in downtown Lynchburg. We are looking for canned sweet potatoes, green beans, and gravy for our Thanksgiving meal. If anybody would like to help with that, we would love and appreciate it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tracey is a legend here. She’s very active. We happen to be in the city that’s got some of the highest poverty in the commonwealth of Virginia.</p> <p><strong>Tracey:</strong> It’s true.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have a lot of hungry people. She and her team and a whole lot of volunteers are very active all the time.</p> <p><strong>Tracey:</strong> Every day. We are open every day of the year. We’ll be open on Christmas because people need to eat on Christmas, too. Grateful for your support, Hugh. Thanks for being here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Blessings. We have people watching from all over, wondering what’s going on here.</p> <p>So we’re going to go to another one. Hope for today. Help and Hope. Tell us who you are and what your organization is. This is our first time we’ve met. What is this organization, and who are you?</p> <p><strong>Sam:</strong> This is World Hope. I’m Sam.</p> <p><strong>Sarah Johnson:</strong> I’m Sarah.</p> <p><strong>Sam:</strong> And we are a humanitarian organization raising money to sponsor kids, get them education, clean water, clothing. We help build churches and schools, bring clean water to villages.</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Our biggest thing that we do is child sponsorship. People can rescue a child out of poverty and get them education, clean food, and water for $35 a month. We have children in over 20 countries. 11,000 children right now.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> How many?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I think it’s between 10 and 11,000 children in our programs around the world.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Around the world?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’re in central Virginia. This is Lynchburg. We are reaching out to the world. SynerVision Leadership Foundation supports charities all over the world. We support with the infrastructure of leadership development, board development, funding. I’m going around the trade show and giving you some exposure. This is a show we do every week called <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Thanks for sharing your ideas. Somebody somewhere will know somebody in one of your areas. Where do they find you? what’s the URL?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> WorldHelp.net</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> WorldHelp.net. Thank you for sharing. Let’s see who else is here and what they’re doing.</p> <p>I talked to you all before. These couple charming ladies. Tell me about this charity. It’s really special. Claire Parker Foundation.</p> <p><strong>Bethany Egland:</strong> I’m Bethany, and I’m the director of programs and family services at the Claire Parker Foundation. We support families that have children with cancer and have partnered hospitals all across the region. We’re in 15 different ones from Tennessee to Texas, which is pretty incredible. We have different programs that we provide from the beginning of the diagnosis to the end. A bunch of different programs to keep kids occupied in the hospital and to support families through the journey financially, emotionally, and even to the end, if they end up losing a child, we have support in that areas as well.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have wonderful gift kits here for the children and families.</p> <p><strong>Bethany:</strong> This is their care box they get right after diagnosis. This is our birthday box to celebrate birthdays. They get a banner, a birthday pillowcase, and a gift card to Amazon.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Where can they find Claire Parker on the Internet?</p> <p><strong>Bethany:</strong> ClaireParkerFoundation.org. We’re on Facebook and Instagram.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I just captured somebody you may know also. Jessica Arrington. What’s the organization that you work with? What do you do there?</p> <p><strong>Jessica Arrington:</strong> Patrick Henry Family Services. I am the volunteer coordinator. I help with all our program ministries to make sure we have the support we need and our mission and vision stay going. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What do you do? Who do you do it for?</p> <p><strong>Jessica:</strong> Volunteer coordinator for Patrick Henry Family Services. I work with all the volunteers, with every program ministry.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tell us about Patrick Henry.</p> <p><strong>Jessica:</strong> We have several program ministries such as Save Family for Children, expanded families, Vision 30, that makes sure every child is in a safe home, in a safe environment wrapped around by the community by 2030. We believe that can happen with your help, partners, agencies, churches, and families. We also have our Hat Creek Camp and our counseling services and so much more.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Jessica is also a friend from the local rotary. She’s been on our show before with the program Power of We.</p> <p><strong>Jessica:</strong> Power of We Lynchburg.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Let’s go look at your banner for Patrick Henry. Who’s this person?</p> <p><strong>Jessica:</strong> This is Nicolette.</p> <p><strong>Nicolette:</strong> Nice to meet you, Facebook.</p> <p><strong>Jessica:  </strong>She works with our girls’ and boys’ homes. We have Lisa.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What does Lisa do?</p> <p><strong>Lisa:</strong> I’m the case manager for residential care. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And this is Patrick Henry Family Services. They can find you online at PatrickHenry.org. Thank you.</p> <p>Here’s Billy. Billy was on <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em> recently. Billy told the story about the sports outreach. They know your story. Thank you.</p> <p>Here is Humankind. Do you want to share? Tell us who you are and what Humankind is.</p> <p><strong>Tiffany Rodriguez:</strong> I am Tiffany Rodriguez. I am in the treatment foster care. Humankind has over 20 different programs. We are community outreach. Our main office is here in Lynchburg, but we also service other areas throughout Virginia. We have anywhere from counseling, treatment, foster care, community outreach. We work with kids who have autism. There is also a daycare. This is one of our new treatment foster care case workers. This is Ashley, and we are very happy to add her to our team. We are excited to be part of this opportunity as well. Thanks so much for having us.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Where can people find Humankind online?</p> <p><strong>Tiffany:</strong> If they go to Humankind.org, then you’ll be able to see all of our resources that we have. If you have any specific questions, you can always email us.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s a worthy work place. Thank you for sharing with us.</p> <p>Why don’t you tell people who you are and what is this organization that you represent?</p> <p><strong>Sandra Bermudez:</strong> I’m Sandra Bermudez. I am representing Braley &amp; Thompson Foster Care in central Virginia. We have over nine offices in the state of Virginia. My office is in Lynchburg. We have been in business for over 30 years in Virginia for children and families. We work with children 0-17 and provide foster families. If you are interested in becoming a foster family, you can visit us at BraleyThompson.com. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. Thank you for being here today. Here’s one called Well of Grace. Who is this back here? Susan. What is this organization, and what does it do?</p> <p><strong>Susan:</strong> Well of Grace helps ladies who have had breast surgery. We help with items their insurance may not pay or does not totally cover. That could be a lymphedema sleeve, whatever they need. We help them get those items. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is a lot of good people doing good work here. Where can they find Well of Grace online?</p> <p><strong>Susan:</strong> They can find it at WellofGrace.org. They can also go through Absolute Perfection, who are the people who support our nonprofit.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> WellofGrace.org. Thank you, Susan.</p> <p>Amazement Square. I’ve been to your organization with grandchildren. Tell them who you are.</p> <p><strong>Jamie Shetley:</strong> Sure. I’m Jamie Shetley. I am the manager of donor and member relations of Amazement Square. We are here today talking about the 50% of work that we do that people don’t know about, which is outside of the museum. We are talking about sponsorships for school programs. We are talking about our new initiative, Amazing Children Smart Beginnings, which is sponsored with a grant from the Institute of Museum and Library Services. We are talking about our new education center. All sorts of things going on.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Amazement Square is in what used to be a old warehouse. One time, Lynchburg was the second wealthiest city in the country. We had a lot of tobacco and leather warehouses in town, which are now dormant. Now, there’s a bunch of new things. One of them is quite amazing. I have been there twice at least with grandchildren, which was an excuse for me to play. It’s quite an amazing thing. Sometime, Lynchburg Symphony will do something musical with you.</p> <p><strong>Jamie:</strong> Our new education center is open now. It has a huge exhibit space. It can seat over 350 people. We have the space for it. We just want people to know this space is available.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Where can people find you online?</p> <p><strong>Jamie:</strong> AmazementSquare.org.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tell us who you are and what do you represent?</p> <p><strong>Susan Campbell:</strong> I’m Susan Campbell, the executive director of the Blue Ridge Pregnancy Center. This is Julia and Julie. They’re both on staff at BRPC. We are a crisis pregnancy center. We help the woman who is in crisis and in need for options and counseling for unplanned pregnancy.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A lot of important work. Where can people find you online?</p> <p><strong>Susan:</strong> BRPCFriends.org. We are located right next to Lynchburg General Hospital, one street over on Thompson Drive.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you. There is quite a few amazing people doing amazing stuff. This is Elise. tell them who you are and what the organization is about.</p> <p><strong>Elise Spontarelli:</strong> Elise Spontarelli with Vector Space. We are a community maker space. We have 12,000 square feet of tools: woodworking, blacksmithing, metalworking, 3D printers, laser cutters, sewing, all the tools. We do membership for adults so you can use those tools. We do safety training, and then we set you free on the tools. We do workshops to teach the tools. We do STEM education with high schoolers. Some cool projects.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I only found out recently about maker spaces. Describe what a maker space is. It’s quite amazing.</p> <p><strong>Elise:</strong> Thank you. It’s a space for people to collaborate. A lot of folks have maybe a woodshop at home or some welding equipment or a 3D printer on their desk, but nobody has all of the tools together. Our members are everyone from engineers to fine artists. We have teachers and entrepreneurs and all sorts of folks with different backgrounds and different skills, coming together and learning together and teaching each other. A big part of our membership is member meet-ups and peer learning. Folks are teaching the skills they know and learning from other people new skills. We bring those together in cool ways. And teaching kids how to use these tools, too.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> They’re super cool. It’s part craft, part art. Where can people find Vector Space online?</p> <p><strong>Elise:</strong> Vector-Space.org. We’re also on Facebook and Instagram. If they want to come out and see us, the first Friday of every month, we do an open house from 5-8pm.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’re in Lynchburg, Virginia. Every first Friday, it’s a happening place downtown with art galleries and the craft space and maker space is beyond that. Thank you for sharing.</p> <p><strong>Elise:</strong> Thanks, Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s quite an amazing entity. Let’s find somebody who’s free. Hey, there. I’ve seen you before. But I forgot. Can you stand up and talk? She has healthy options. Everyone has sugar-loaded candy. Tell people who you are and what is it you’re doing here? What is this organization?</p> <p><strong>Jane Massey:</strong> I am Jane Massey with the Alzheimer’s Association in Central and Western Virginia. This is Ginny Simmons. Ginny serves on our walk planning committee. The Alzheimer’s Association is a nonprofit that is trying to find a cure for Alzheimer’s. That is basically our vision: a world without Alzheimer’s Disease.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Say your vision.</p> <p><strong>Jane:</strong> A world without Alzheimer’s Disease.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I was just working on vision statements for my nonprofit. It’s really hard. That is a picture: a world without Alzheimer’s. Here’s a lesson right here. A vision is a picture of what it looks like. You can say that without reading it.</p> <p><strong>Jane:</strong> Yes, I can. It’s a really important vision statement. The Alzheimer’s Association, we are the largest nonprofit organization in the world providing research. We are only #3 behind the Chinese government and the U.S. government in funding research. Our goal is to fight a cure, sustainable ways to live with the disease by 2025. We have an aggressive format going on. Our goal is to do it. We currently provide international research as well as local programs and services. One of our biggest events to raise awareness and funds is our walk to end Alzheimer’s. That’s where Ginny comes in. Ginny is our logistics chair. Want to share your experience about being on the committee?</p> <p><strong>Ginny Simpson:</strong> Sure. I have been on the committee now with the Alzheimer’s Association for probably 15+ years or so. I’ve been very involved. I don’t have a personal connection, but I professionally work with those affected with dementia and Alzheimer’s. It’s been a joy and a pleasure working and serving the community trying to find a cure for this terrible disease.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There are probably walks all over the country.</p> <p><strong>Ginny:</strong> Yes, there are.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Where can people find out more about Alzheimer’s Association?</p> <p><strong>Jane:</strong> Alz.org. One of the things I do want to share that a lot of people don’t realize is that the Alzheimer’s Association not only covers and manages Alzheimer’s, which is the most common form of dementia, but we cover all dementias. We have an award-winning website where you can find information about vascular dementia, Parkinson’s disease because those are forms of dementia.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> If people don’t know if they have something, can they or their family go and find out?</p> <p><strong>Jane:</strong> Yes, they can go to the website. One of the things, if somebody is concerned about having some forgetfulness that is affecting your daily life, the first thing we recommend is seeing a doctor. Sometimes, it’s not Alzheimer’s. It can be something as easy as an infection, or it might be some drug interactions that are not working properly. That can cause memory issues. It’s really important to get that checked out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great, thank you. Go to Alz.org. Easy. Thank you for your good work.</p> <p>Who are you? Here is their banner. Tell us who you are. What is this organization about?</p> <p><strong>Andy Cohen:</strong> I’m Andy Cohen. I’m the executive director of Harmony Day Support. We have services for adults with disabilities all throughout the day so they can live as autonomously as we do every single day. We’re excited about the opportunity to help them grow socially, academically, athletically, spiritually, all over. We have about 9,600 individuals we serve here locally. We are in the process of implementing and adding new services daily.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Is this a local organization?</p> <p><strong>Andy:</strong> Local.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’re in central Virginia. You might know somebody here. It’s HarmonyDaySupport.org. Thank you.</p> <p>Tell us who you are. What is this organization? Why does it exist?</p> <p><strong>Adam Pavao:</strong> My name is Adam Pavao. I am the executive director of foster care services at Impact Living Services. We exist to serve youth aging out of foster care and youth in foster care. We’re a relatively young nonprofit. Started in 2012 just in Lynchburg, Virginia to work with those kids aging out. Youth aging out of foster care have really bad outcomes. One in four are incarcerated before 21. One in five are homeless within a year. 71% of girls get pregnant before the age of 21. Less than 4% graduate from college.</p> <p>We have apartments and town homes we place them in. We get connected to employment and education and teach them how to be adults. We also have a foster care program where we work with teens in foster care. That population has a hard time getting placed with families. We believe kids should be with families and kids should have connections. We work with those families to train them, to provide support to them to make sure those kids and teens are in the home. We have offices in Lynchburg, Roanoke, Harrisonburg, and Richmond.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Those are Virginia cities. This is a nice banner they have. A little bit about what they do here. What is the URL for your website?</p> <p><strong>Adam:</strong> It is ImpactLivingServices.org.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you, sir.</p> <p><strong>Allison Zuba:</strong> These are some of the best nonprofit leaders in Lynchburg.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Who are you?</p> <p><strong>Allison:</strong> I’m Allison Zuba.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Who are you?</p> <p><strong>Linda Bright:</strong> I’m Linda Bright, the program manager for Bedford Ride.</p> <p><strong>Vicky Craig:</strong> I’m Vicky Craig, the public relations coordinator for the Central Virginia Alliance for Community Living, your area agency on aging.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Whoa, my peer group.</p> <p><strong>Allison:</strong> I’m Allison Zuba. I’m the executive director at the Adult Care Center, the best place to spend your day in Lynchburg.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Adult Care Center. Do you all work together? Or I just happened to catch you together.</p> <p><strong>Allison:</strong> We don’t get to work together a lot, but we certainly support each other’s organizations.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tell us about Adult Care Center. Tell us about CVACL.</p> <p><strong>Allison:</strong> The Adult Care Center has folks who need a little extra help and still want to live at home, but have a great place to be during the day. Folks come to us Monday through Friday, play games, have great food, and enjoy themselves immensely. Laughter is the key to the day here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> My wife might be calling you. Tell us about this organization.</p> <p><strong>Linda:</strong> Bedford Ride, we are a program of the Central Virginia Alliance for Community Living. We do non-emergency medical training and transportation for Bedford residents who are unable to drive. All of our drivers are carefully vetted volunteers. We have over 90 volunteers, 20 wheelchair accessible vans, and five cars.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are in central Virginia. Bedford is the next town over. Look at this. Be a Santa to a Senior.</p> <p><strong>Vicky:</strong> Right now, at the Central Virginia Alliance for Community Living, we are doing a Be a Santa to a Senior program. That is when we provide Christmas presents for our clients and others throughout the area. We do need people to come and take our tags. This is how we provide Christmas to seniors who otherwise wouldn’t have Christmas.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Where can they find you online?</p> <p><strong>Vicky:</strong> CVACL.org.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And where can they find Adult Care Center?</p> <p><strong>Allison:</strong> AdultCareCenter.org.</p> <p><strong>Linda:</strong> And Bedford Ride is BedfordRide-CVACL.org.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Those are places you can find these ladies.</p> <p>Do you want to talk about Meals on Wheels? People have heard of Meals on Wheels but may not know much about it. Tell people who you are and what you’re representing here.</p> <p><strong>Janet Lomax:</strong> I’m Janet Lomax. I am representing on Meals on Wheels of greater Lynchburg.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> People may have heard about it, but they don’t know what Meals on Wheels is about.</p> <p><strong>Janet:</strong> Meals on Wheels delivers hot meals every day, Monday through Friday, to home-bound individuals who cannot prepare a nutritious meal for themselves or who do not have a person who can prepare nutritious meals for them. This Meals on Wheels delivers those meals for them, filling the gap for them.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We do have a pretty large need. We have a segment under the poverty line in Lynchburg, don’t we?</p> <p><strong>Janet:</strong> Yes, we do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Where can people find you online?</p> <p><strong>Janet:</strong> They can to go MealsLynchburg.org.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you for standing up and telling your story. Let’s see who I haven’t interviewed yet. Tell people who you are and what’s this organization you’re representing.</p> <p><strong>Teresa:</strong> Thank you so much. I’m Teresa Davis. I’m the communications director at Gleaning for the World. We are located in Concord, Virginia. We focus on disaster relief and humanitarian aid locally here in Central Virginia, and nationally and internationally as well.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Gleaning for the World. What is it about? What do you do?</p> <p><strong>Teresa:</strong> Our mission statement is to share the love of God at home and around the world. That’s what we’re doing. We’re sharing God’s love by meeting tangible needs to people in need.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Like what? Give me an instance.</p> <p><strong>Teresa:</strong> For example, right now, we have a truck on the way to California to help the people staying in shelters because of the Kincaid wildfire. This morning, they are back at the warehouse loading a truck headed to Jordan to bring clothes and basic materials to the refugees there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. Where can people find you online?</p> <p><strong>Teresa:</strong> GFTW.org.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you for sharing your story.</p> <p>What are you doing here? Connect Networking Group. Who are you, and what is this organization?</p> <p><strong>Elizabeth Snyder:</strong> I’m Elizabeth Snyder. I am with the Connect Lynchburg Group. I like to say we are the Angie’s List of Lynchburg because we have our businesses that we refer each other out and we do networking. The reason why we’re here today is we also do a lot of work in the community. That’s part of being a member of Connect. We do community work.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. Where can people find you online?</p> <p><strong>Elizabeth:</strong> We have a website. We’re on Facebook. Our web URL is LynchburgConnect.com.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I think I’ve made the rounds. Thank you for coming by! Tell others the story of some of these great nonprofits and what they’re doing.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1993</itunes:duration>
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      <title>New Sports Commission Launches a Fresh Approach to Sports Marketing</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/new-sports-commission-launches-a-fresh-approach-to-sports-marketing</link>
      <description>Billy Russo serves as Executive Director of the Central Virginia Sports Commission (CVSC). Russo is responsible for managing the day-to-day operations &amp; financial performance of the organization while developing &amp; recruiting new business opportunities. Russo manages the marketing plan, goals, &amp; the mission and vision of the CVSC. He is the main liaison for the CVSC Board of Directors. Russo utilizes years of event management experience to develop and create world class sporting events. Russo utilizes his network of contacts and relationships in recruiting sporting events to the region.
 The Mission of central Virginia Sports: To promote the sports industry image in central Virginia; to engage public and private resources to foster economic development through sports; to build an understanding in the community of the importance of sports and the impact on quality of life; to recruit and create sports events through creative partnerships that have a positive impact on the community; and to do so with world class service while meeting all industry professional standards.
 More at https://www.centralvasports.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 03 Nov 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/76958482-b329-11eb-9f0f-33906b6dd27e/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Billy Russo</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Billy Russo serves as Executive Director of the Central Virginia Sports Commission (CVSC). Russo is responsible for managing the day-to-day operations &amp; financial performance of the organization while developing &amp; recruiting new business opportunities. Russo manages the marketing plan, goals, &amp; the mission and vision of the CVSC. He is the main liaison for the CVSC Board of Directors. Russo utilizes years of event management experience to develop and create world class sporting events. Russo utilizes his network of contacts and relationships in recruiting sporting events to the region.
 The Mission of central Virginia Sports: To promote the sports industry image in central Virginia; to engage public and private resources to foster economic development through sports; to build an understanding in the community of the importance of sports and the impact on quality of life; to recruit and create sports events through creative partnerships that have a positive impact on the community; and to do so with world class service while meeting all industry professional standards.
 More at https://www.centralvasports.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Billy Russo</strong> serves as Executive Director of the Central Virginia Sports Commission (CVSC). Russo is responsible for managing the day-to-day operations &amp; financial performance of the organization while developing &amp; recruiting new business opportunities. Russo manages the marketing plan, goals, &amp; the mission and vision of the CVSC. He is the main liaison for the CVSC Board of Directors. Russo utilizes years of event management experience to develop and create world class sporting events. Russo utilizes his network of contacts and relationships in recruiting sporting events to the region.</p> <p>The Mission of central Virginia Sports: To promote the sports industry image in central Virginia; to engage public and private resources to foster economic development through sports; to build an understanding in the community of the importance of sports and the impact on quality of life; to recruit and create sports events through creative partnerships that have a positive impact on the community; and to do so with world class service while meeting all industry professional standards.</p> <p>More at <a href="https://www.centralvasports.com/">https://www.centralvasports.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3350</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[ae179b4170dd4647bc52780224ec5c75]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4226777766.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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      <title>The Basics Of Starting A Nonprofit with Christian LeFer</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-basics-of-starting-a-nonprofit-with-christian-lefer</link>
      <description>Managing a nonprofit is a very noble move, but materializing it can be a daunting process even when you have billions of cash waiting to be used for a wonderful cause. In this episode, we learn from the knowledge bank of Christian LeFer who is the CEO and Founder of InstantNonprofit.com as he walks us through the steps of starting a nonprofit, including dealing with the IRS and lawyers. He also presents how he and his team can help anyone aiming to start a foundation or charity and presents them their 501(c)(3) package.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 27 Oct 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/76bb76ba-b329-11eb-9f0f-839e05e2b6f8/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>What You Need to Know to Start a Successful Nonprofit</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Managing a nonprofit is a very noble move, but materializing it can be a daunting process even when you have billions of cash waiting to be used for a wonderful cause. In this episode, we learn from the knowledge bank of Christian LeFer who is the CEO and Founder of InstantNonprofit.com as he walks us through the steps of starting a nonprofit, including dealing with the IRS and lawyers. He also presents how he and his team can help anyone aiming to start a foundation or charity and presents them their 501(c)(3) package.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Managing a nonprofit is a very noble move, but materializing it can be a daunting process even when you have billions of cash waiting to be used for a wonderful cause. In this episode, we learn from the knowledge bank of <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/christianlefer">Christian LeFer</a> who is the CEO and Founder of <a href="http://instantnonprofit.com/">InstantNonprofit.com</a> as he walks us through the steps of starting a nonprofit, including dealing with the IRS and lawyers. He also presents how he and his team can help anyone aiming to start a foundation or charity and presents them their 501(c)(3) package.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3392</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[20b40830585b45c9b75002a4d11a8e07]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5762606448.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange Highlights with Hosts Russ &amp; Hugh</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-highlights-with-hosts-russ-hugh</link>
      <description>Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange Part 2 2019
  
 provide highlights from interviews over the past few months.
 Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership. 
 Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past six months of episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 13 Oct 2019 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/76d95ab8-b329-11eb-9f0f-67b3ff7349f1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Review of 2019 Episodes, Part 2</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange Part 2 2019
  
 provide highlights from interviews over the past few months.
 Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership. 
 Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past six months of episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange<br> Part 2 2019</strong></h1> <p> </p> <p>provide highlights from interviews over the past few months.</p> <p>Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership. </p> <p>Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past six months of episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3626</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[52b84d85f7f54f329277c888336fafdb]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6788204922.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>Why Every Nonprofit Needs to Incorporate Business Structures NOW</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/why-every-nonprofit-needs-to-incorporate-business-structures-now</link>
      <description>Why Every Nonprofit Needs to Incorporate Business Structures NOW with Joseph Imbriano
 Joseph Imbriano is the founder and CEO of OmniKai, a transformational coaching agency that helps leaders around the world overcome crises, build sustainable organizations that shape a better tomorrow.. ​​ OmniKai helps social impact companies, non profit organization, small businesses and startups, simplify, systemize, hire the right teams, and communicate their vision so that they can turn their vision into real sustainable impact.
 Joseph has been helping leaders in crisis since 2003, working all over the work, in China, Africa, Australia, Latin America, and here in the USA.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 06 Oct 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/76f53e0e-b329-11eb-9f0f-7f42c0855e50/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Joseph Imbriano</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Why Every Nonprofit Needs to Incorporate Business Structures NOW with Joseph Imbriano
 Joseph Imbriano is the founder and CEO of OmniKai, a transformational coaching agency that helps leaders around the world overcome crises, build sustainable organizations that shape a better tomorrow.. ​​ OmniKai helps social impact companies, non profit organization, small businesses and startups, simplify, systemize, hire the right teams, and communicate their vision so that they can turn their vision into real sustainable impact.
 Joseph has been helping leaders in crisis since 2003, working all over the work, in China, Africa, Australia, Latin America, and here in the USA.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Why Every Nonprofit Needs to Incorporate Business Structures NOW with Joseph Imbriano</strong></h1> <p><strong>Joseph Imbriano</strong> is the founder and CEO of OmniKai, a transformational coaching agency that helps leaders around the<br> world overcome crises, build sustainable organizations that shape a better tomorrow..<br> ​​<br> OmniKai helps social impact companies, non profit organization, small businesses and startups, simplify, systemize, hire the right teams, and communicate their vision so that they can turn their vision into real sustainable impact.</p> <p>Joseph has been helping leaders in crisis since 2003, working all over the work, in China, Africa, Australia, Latin America, and here in the USA.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3364</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[02fc2ed427754853b59d21dff7b19a49]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9685674468.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Community Options: a Nonprofit Like No Other, with Robert Stack</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/community-options-a-nonprofit-like-no-other-with-robert-stack</link>
      <description>Community Options: a Nonprofit Like No Other, with Robert Stack
 Robert Stack is the Founder, President and Chief Executive Officer of Community Options. According to the New Jersey Business Journal’s Book of Lists for 2018, Community Options is ranked as the 3rd largest non-profit in New Jersey. He has an M.B.A. and is a graduate of the University of Dayton. Robert also attended the University in Friborg, Switzerland, University of Rome and the University of London. He also taught at Kent State University where he received the Graduate Student Teaching Award. He is an Adjunct Professor for the graduate school at Kean University. He is the author of two books: I Matter-So Does Your Cause – Starting a Nonprofit and Meaningful Day: Day Program Services Curriculum and Staff Guidebook.
 Robert has extensive international experience in entrepreneurial business development and non-profit management. He has spoken throughout the world on employment for persons with disabilities using a social entrepreneurial model. He was a keynote at the Yale Goldman-Sachs School of Management and has given the plenary session at the National Council of Negro Women USAID conference in Cairo, Egypt, and at Perspectiva in Moscow, Russia on entrepreneurial management, business development and advocacy. In 2015, Stack was the keynote speaker at the University of Oxford
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/77155d6a-b329-11eb-9f0f-a725e3673541/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Founding a New Nonprofit and Growing it Over 30 Years</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Community Options: a Nonprofit Like No Other, with Robert Stack
 Robert Stack is the Founder, President and Chief Executive Officer of Community Options. According to the New Jersey Business Journal’s Book of Lists for 2018, Community Options is ranked as the 3rd largest non-profit in New Jersey. He has an M.B.A. and is a graduate of the University of Dayton. Robert also attended the University in Friborg, Switzerland, University of Rome and the University of London. He also taught at Kent State University where he received the Graduate Student Teaching Award. He is an Adjunct Professor for the graduate school at Kean University. He is the author of two books: I Matter-So Does Your Cause – Starting a Nonprofit and Meaningful Day: Day Program Services Curriculum and Staff Guidebook.
 Robert has extensive international experience in entrepreneurial business development and non-profit management. He has spoken throughout the world on employment for persons with disabilities using a social entrepreneurial model. He was a keynote at the Yale Goldman-Sachs School of Management and has given the plenary session at the National Council of Negro Women USAID conference in Cairo, Egypt, and at Perspectiva in Moscow, Russia on entrepreneurial management, business development and advocacy. In 2015, Stack was the keynote speaker at the University of Oxford
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Community Options: a Nonprofit Like No Other, with Robert Stack</p> <p><strong>Robert Stack</strong> is the Founder, President and Chief Executive Officer of Community Options. According to the New Jersey Business Journal’s Book of Lists for 2018, Community Options is ranked as the 3rd largest non-profit in New Jersey. He has an M.B.A. and is a graduate of the University of Dayton. Robert also attended the University in Friborg, Switzerland, University of Rome and the University of London. He also taught at Kent State University where he received the Graduate Student Teaching Award. He is an Adjunct Professor for the graduate school at Kean University. He is the author of two books: I Matter-So Does Your Cause – Starting a Nonprofit and Meaningful Day: Day Program Services Curriculum and Staff Guidebook.</p> <p>Robert has extensive international experience in entrepreneurial business development and non-profit management. He has spoken throughout the world on employment for persons with disabilities using a social entrepreneurial model. He was a keynote at the Yale Goldman-Sachs School of Management and has given the plenary session at the National Council of Negro Women USAID conference in Cairo, Egypt, and at Perspectiva in Moscow, Russia on entrepreneurial management, business development and advocacy. In 2015, Stack was the keynote speaker at the University of Oxford</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Improving Donor Relations with Wordsprint CEO Bill Gilmer</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/improving-donor-relations-withwordsprint-ceo-bill-gilmer</link>
      <description>Improving Donor Relations: Getting The Right Message To The Right People With The Right RhythmInterview with Wordsprint CEO Bill Gilmer

 Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Hey, folks, it’s Hugh Ballou. Another chapter of The Nonprofit Exchange. Russell David Dennis, last week you and I were in Florida. It’s a good thing we’re not there this week.
 Russell Dennis: Yes, it’s a bit windy down there now. I’m hoping everyone is okay. It’s looking like the storm is turning off and it’s not going as far inland as they initially thought. Hopefully all of our friends and the wonderful people down at Kaiser who made us feel so welcome are okay.
 Hugh: It’s called a hurricane, but it’s really a slowcane. It’s going slowly through there. Welcome folks to this episode. We have a special guest today, Bill Gilmer. He has been on the ride with us ever since we started the magazine. I think over five years ago. Bill Gilmer, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Bill Gilmer: Thanks. Glad to be here. Unlike Russell, I am in chillier Blacksburg, Virginia. No hurricane on my horizon, I don’t think.
 Hugh: Yeah, we just are down the road in Lynchburg. Bill, we ask our guests to say a little bit about themselves. Some background. Why is it you’re doing this important work you’re doing today?
 Bill: My background, I used to be a printer. I used to run a printing company. Over the years, we discovered that most of the work we were doing was for nonprofits. Over the years, we started tracking response rates on donor relation campaigns. We have put together a system of marketing to donors, and that’s what we do every day. Help folks build relationships with their donor base.
 Hugh: You’ve been working with SynerVision five or six years ago. Let’s declare up front that Wordsprint, Bill’s company, is a sponsor of Nonprofit Performance Magazine and SynerVision’s work in general. We talk about you often on these podcasts. It’s a pleasure to have you here live and in person. This is not an infomercial for Wordsprint, but we know the value of your work.
 We talk about the 30/30/30. That’s the secret for success. Just to be clear, people can do this on their own. They don’t need you. But if they want to do it the very best way possible, you know how to do that. I want to be clear on that. Explain what this 30/30/30/10 is all about.
 Bill: What we discovered, and this is lots of data, we started tracking this back in the early 2000s. I think we’re up to 20 million touches, 15,000 campaigns. What we discovered is that there are three things that matter. It’s our three-bit marketing system. There are three things that matter when it comes to donor relations.
 The first is having the right message. The second is getting that right message to the right people. The third is getting the right message to the right people with the right rhythm. We help clients focus their message, stay consistent with their message, stay on message. We help them with the right people by helping with database cleansing, database acquisition, all kinds of demographics and predictive analytics. But most importantly, we have developed a system for staying consistent and rhythmic with your donor touches.
 We’ve observed through all our data that is where many nonprofits fail. It’s the rhythm and consistency. The right message to the right people with the right rhythm. That’s the 30/30/30.
 Hugh: What do you say to people who say, “I’ve tried mailing. It didn’t work. We tried sending out a mailing at the end of the year, and we got a little bit of money, but it doesn’t work, Bill.”
 Bill: I tell them that I tried dieting once last year, and it didn’t work either.
 Hugh: I tried working out once, and it didn’t work either.
 Bill: I tried to exercise once, and it didn’t work. It really is like diet or exercise or physical therapy. These are things that work if you implement them rhythmically. It’s not a quick fix. Rhythm doesn’t become rhythm right away. It needs a few cycles. In fact, on average, for most of our clients, it’s really in the third year of repeated rhythmic touches that the donations start to snowball, that it really begins to build. This is not a showhorse thing. This is drip marketing, if you will. But it works.
 Hugh: It works. I’ve seen it work. Dig a little deeper into the right person and the right message. I want to know more about how I can do this.
 Bill: The right message, the first pillar, is your brand. It’s who you are. It’s why you go to work every day. It’s your mission. It’s your elevator speech. What we found that nonprofits who stay on message, who stay true to themselves about who they are, are the ones more successful over time as opposed to those who try to be all things to all people or try to repackage it or try to rebrand every year. I’m not saying you can’t rebrand, but you need to do so carefully. The right message is mainly a matter of consistency and articulating it clearly. Having the right taglines, having the right logo, having the right paragraphs.
 The right people gets more complicated. It is all about relationships. We find that the nonprofits who succeed are those who create a database culture, where they take those relationships and get them into the database that everyone in the organization is empowered to update. Your best donors are the people you know. People donate to people. People donate to you because they trust you to fulfill your mission. It’s the people you know, the people you run into, the people who come to your open house. These are the best potential donors. The organizations who know how to capture that and bring them into their database so they get rhythmic touches and notifications are the ones who succeed.
 You can also acquire data. We do a lot of this. Using some fancy predictive analytics, we can acquire names of people who are more likely to donate to your cause than others. That is almost a whole topic in itself.
 Hugh: Talk a little bit about that. We constantly run across people who say, “I don’t know anybody.” If we do have people who are in nonprofits that maybe they get donations, but they don’t have a donor management program per se, or they work with a number of early stage. Talk a bit about how you acquire names legally. Is there a magic database program that I can use to connect them with?
 Bill: It’s all legal. There are about six or seven big players in this game called compilers. These are companies who do nothing but purchase, massage, and resell databases. You’ve heard of some of them. Dunne &amp; Bradstreet does this mostly with businesses. Experian. Equifax, the one that had the big data breach. InfoUSA. There are others. There are literally thousands of brokers and people who take the information from these larger players and resell it to folks like us and you.
 Demographics are available. We as a society click a lot. We are on our computers and are clicking. We go to Amazon. We read the paragraph. We look at another book. We order this. We fill out a warranty card. We subscribe to a magazine. We join a club. All of those are data transactions that are public and can be sold and resold. The hard demographics have always been there, things like the value of your home, the car you drive. That’s public information. But these compilers gather so many data points on all of us as consumers that they are able with artificial intelligence help to see patterns and build logorhythms. They know if you’ve done this and this and this, then you are more likely to support a nonprofit that focuses on children and especially disabled children. That is how detailed it can get. Or you are more likely to support a local nonprofit that works in the music arts, like an orchestra or a symphony. We call this predictive analytics. This is data that indicates the likelihood of someone supporting your cause. This has gotten way better than it even was six months ago.
 What we usually do—and Hugh, you have had some recent experience with this with one of your organizations—when we do a database acquisition like this, we then compare it to the organization’s existing donor database. If the predictive analytics have been accurate, there will be considerable overlap. Your organization had 3,000 names. We bought another 700-800. Three years ago, you’d expect 10-12 of those to be an overlap. We had a 250-name overlap in that case. Those analytics were extremely accurate. These are folks not just demographically speaking but in terms of propensity are more likely to support your cause. You still have to touch them and touch them rhythmically. That is where the rhythm thing comes in. That is where you need to establish a system of cadent touches over the course of several cycles. At the end of the second or the beginning of the third year, that is where you will start to see donations come in, and it will start to snowball over time.
 Hugh: When you are talking about clicking, we’re talking about mail in the U.S. We are not talking about email with our computer.
 Bill: I don’t think I caught the last part of your question. In terms of what we advise for donor relations, it’s a combination of mailing and emailing.
 Russell: It’s so systematic to your approach to keeping and maintaining donors. Especially small nonprofits will be overwhelmed when they start thinking about all this data, and maybe a little confused as to what a touchpoint is. Lots of folks like me get lots of mail and email from a lot of the same folks. Maybe they think, “Oh, I don’t want to be this person who is bombarding something with emails a day.” When you talk in terms of touches, there are certain things you are accomplishing with each touch. Let’s take a generic year or quarter and talk about what touchpoints there are and the methods behind them.
 Bill: Let me give you a common example of a mid-sized local nonprofit. Let’s say they have 10-12 staff. On average, our clients would have several touches. They would probably have one event every year. In the spring, they will do a luncheon where they talk about their cause and ask people for money while they are there. They might have a monthly blog. The first Monday of every month, they put something out on social media. They might have a fall appeal mailing. Here is where they write a letter. “Dear Dr. Smith, Here is what we do. Please give us money.” If they are smart, they will have that appeal mailing coupled with an auto trigger email, where the day after Dr. Smith gets the letter, he gets an automatic email that says, “Hey Dr. Smith, did you get our letter yesterday? I bet you trashed it, didn’t ya? You can still click here to support our cause.” Once in the winter and once in the summer, they will do an e-newsletter. They are sending out information two or three times a year. Information only. They are asking for money in a hard ask twice a year. In the example I gave, once with a mailer/email and once with an event. Something like that.
 We have some clients who do mailers and ask for money every month. We have others who do it once a year with a hard mailing. What we don’t have is much success with straight email solicitation. People do like the convenience of donating online, but they don’t trust it unless it has something based in the physical world, whether that’s a letter they got and threw away, then they get the mail. They will trust it a lot more because they have the mail piece. They go to an open house, and they then trust the email because they associate it with the real-life physical experience they had.
 That would be typical. A hard ask twice a year, information only two or three times, and maybe something monthly on social media.
 What we find does not work is the single big blast. So many people want to put all their eggs into one basket. We will have this big shindig and send out 200,000 invitations. It doesn’t do that well. It is better to touch 200 people rhythmically than 200,000 in a blast. Is that helpful?
 Russell: The key is to spread these over with ask, non-ask. Give them information about the programs they were talking about in the newsletter. How the dollars are impacting, how many people were served, what the shift is.
 Bill: Impact is huge.
 Russell: If we’re talking about contacting 200 people at a time, this probably means for a medium-sized nonprofit they are sending stuff out weekly to different donors.  
 Bill: Most of our clients, an average database for our clients is in the range of 2,000-10,000 donors. We often do mailings of 3,000. Sometimes we do 100,000. On average, let’s say 5,000. Most of our clients would do one or two mailings a year. A fall appeal and a spring appeal. In lieu of the spring appeal, sometimes they would do a spring event. The other touches, the social media and the e-newsletter when they are not asking are information only. That would be a balanced mix.
 Let me get to another key point. This is the magic right here. Rhythm is important. Understanding the rhythm that your clients respond to. Most of you know this. Most nonprofit organizations have a pretty good understanding of how often their donors and potential donors want to be asked. Once a year, twice a year, once a month sometimes. The organization usually knows what the rhythm should be. Rhythm is so important that you sustain it over the years that our biggest piece of advice is adjust the scale to match your budget so that you can sustain the rhythm.
 We actually help clients with spreadsheets so it says we want to mail to 20,000 people twice a year. The postage alone exceeds your budget. You can’t do that. “Let’s try it one time.” Don’t do it. Adjust that scale. If you can’t afford the postage of 20,000 appeal letters, can you do 10,000? No. 5,000? You play with that spreadsheet and settle on we can sustain 2,500 twice a year. That’s the amount you go with. You have this pool of 10,000. How do you target down to the 2,500? That’s how you do predictive analytics. Mail to the 2,500 who are most likely to donate to your cause. It’s a budget thing. You adjust your scale to match your budget so you can sustain that rhythm because if you sustain the rhythm through several cycles, it works. This is based on data of what actually works, not what makes you feel or look good, but did the donations come rolling in.
 Russell: What is the best path to help a new organization or client when they come to you? They may have some stuff they kept on Excel, but they don’t necessarily have a donor database or CRM. They looked at these things and thought they were hard to use. They know they need to get better information. Talk about that process where you help them look at the most important factors and how to organize that data and how you guide them to build that so they get effective data from what they are collecting.
 Bill: There are lots of databases out there as you know. We deal with lots of them. People are constantly asking us which one is the best. All I can honestly say is the best one is the one that someone in your organization is willing to dive into. The right operator, any of these databases can sing. They really can. Some of our biggest clients use Salesforce for their nonprofit data. There is a whole spectrum. It’s not so much which CRM system you use. It’s do you have someone and a back-up or two who know how to use it?
 If you have no money and can’t do anything, use Excel. It’s not so much what you use as how you use it. We can assist. We understand a lot of the databases. We love working with Excel in terms of immediate back-and-forth with our clients. They will export their database to a CSV or Excel file, and we will update the addresses and run through a deceased person’s filter. Make sure that list is scrubbed and clean. But we do all that from Excel.
 Russell: It’s a robust program. Microsoft itself. What trips people up more than anything else is understanding what are the most important pieces for me to collect, and then once I collect all of these, what is the best way to categorize or shift my people around or look at now I have it, how do I use it?
 Bill: This leads into something new we have been doing within the last couple of years. Let’s say you inherit a nonprofit. You come in as the new executive director. There has been some staff turnover, and you have three or four huge Excel files with all your donors. You don’t really know your donors. You have some record of who gave when, but you don’t know why the other people are in there. Are they good prospects? We can actually take that database, those Excel files, do all the usual stuff, combine, de-dupe, update the addresses, make sure they aren’t deceased. Then we do something called data append. We send that file—let’s say you have 3,000 names but you only know who 50 are—confidentially to some of these national compilers. They can run it versus their data banks and come back with demographic data filled in where you get age, education level, the value of the home, household income, gender, political persuasion, all sorts of things you can add back to that list. That can be a target. You can say, “Listen, these 300 people don’t match the profile of our donors. I don’t see why we’re mailing to them. They haven’t given to us in five years. Let’s drop them. But these 400 look really good. They match the profile. They are active in the community. Let’s keep them on our list.” We call it scoring data or modeling data. There are all kinds of things like that.
 Russell: There are so many nuances to relating to donors. They come from different backgrounds, education levels, parts of the country. They are in different age groups. When people look at this and say, “I have a lot of different people,” what is the best way for me to organize these groups? What are their touchpoints that are more effective for some groups than others? How do we go about looking at that?
 Bill: One thing I haven’t talked about yet is what channel you use. Is this a demographic that will respond to a Facebook post or a physical newsletter or an e-newsletter? You can ask them. That’s a good question. “Would you prefer to receive this?” Make some age and generation assumptions. Millennials actually like direct mail more than you think. Some older folks don’t like it as much as you think.
 The one thing we do advise people to do is do what we call a scattergraph. That’s where you sit around the table brainstorming and make a graph of your best donors in terms of age, income level, value of home, education level, geography. As you start graphing this, you will have people all over that graph. You will have young kids who donate to your cause. You have great-grandfathers. You have uneducated and educated. But there will be, the more you plot those dots on your graph, a cluster in the middle. That is your sweet spot. If you want to go after and acquire more donors, acquire more who match those demographics. Add those predictive analytics. It’s good to have a profile of who is our sweet spot donor, and how many.
 Russell: Very helpful. When you start working with an organization, what type of organization are you most effective at helping? What are some of the things that the organization can do that will help you get them results a little faster?
 Bill: That’s a great question, Russell. We find that most nonprofits are pretty good at the first 30%, the message. Nonprofits know most well why they do what they do. It’s their passion. It’s why they go to work. They usually have that part nailed down. They have that elevator speech. You can’t shut them up. They got the message.
 We find that we can help a lot with the rhythm. We can build these Excel sheets. We can send reminder notifications. “Make sure your blog is written. It’s due tomorrow.” “Your e-newsletter should launch next week.” We send reminders that keep them on track, like how a FitBit reminds you to hop up and walk around. These notifications keep you on track.
 The one that is hardest is the data. It’s relationships. We don’t know the people in their database, but they do. They know more of them than not. Say the thing in the organization could do is the best results is to go through their database with as many constituents involved as possible: your volunteers, your staff, your key donors. Break it up into small bits, and do a little bit at a time. Try to understand who your donors are. That would probably be the best.
 Leverage your board. Every board member should have a gun to their head that says, “Who do you know who might donate to your cause? Give us their names.” Leverage conversations. Your whole staff should be encouraged.
 You have a new administrative assistant who is helping you with this. She bumps into someone at the grocery store who says, “Hey Sally, I haven’t seen you in a long time. What are you doing?” “I’m working at Habitat for Humanity now. We are doing this and this.” That person says, “Wow, that sounds interesting. Tell me more.” Sally needs to know to come back and get that information in the database. That person she just bumped into in the grocery store is a better prospect than any of these purchased names we are talking about. Everyone in the organization from the board to the staff to the volunteers should realize it is their personal relationships that lead to the best database.
 Russell: It’s a warm referral that is good. One of the things that I’ve seen information on and talked to people about in having people on your team, you want to have good tools for them to use to go out and talk about your organization. If you can take a few minutes, talk about some of the tools, printed tools, the toolkits that you make the board members and volunteers and people with information on the organization, how they organize that, and the tools they have to talk about the organization in the best way.
 Bill: Funny you should ask. We just worked up some handout cards as old-fashioned as that sounds, a little bigger than a business card. The organization calls them the “Get Involved” cards. On one size is the logo and a truncated, poignant abbreviation of the mission. The back features three ways to get involved. You can go to this website and do this. You can become a volunteer and do this. You can call this number and do this. They give these cards to everyone on staff, their volunteers, and encourage them when you are in the grocery store and your old roommate comes up to talk to you, you give them one of the cards. Something as simple as that.
 Russell: It’s important to have those pieces. Is there a way you have people who have these tools, a simple system for them to keep track of how many people are coming? How do you help them document the effectiveness of these tools?
 Bill: We haven’t done a lot of that. The organizations themselves usually keep a database of how many cards did you hand out, and did you talk about it? Ideally you are getting some address/city/state/zip/phone number/email into your database from that encounter. That’s the ideal. When you bump into the old roommate in the grocery store, you ask for a business card or a text so I can keep in touch with you. “I’d like to send some information about XYZ charity.” The ones I know do this on a regular basis have weekly staff meetings and go over contacts. It’s the most important thing. You’re an ambassador for your charity. It’s those contacts. People give to people. I know you think they give to your organization because you do all this good. They give because they know and trust you to carry out that mission. It’s all about trust.
 Hugh: Underlying that is relationship building. I can’t tell you how many nonprofits out there get a check and wait until next year to ask for another check. I don’t know what the average is, but 70% of most nonprofits get the bulk of their money from donors. There is a large percentage.
 Bill: Yeah, we really do need to take care of our donors better. We recommend the pyramid where you take your database and have your top donors at the top. At some point, you draw that line where everyone above this level of giving gets the personal visit from the executive director or the personal phone call or the three phone calls a year, whatever that appropriate nurturing touch is. The ones at the bottom get a thank-you card. The top people, your key donors, need to be acknowledged, need to be thanked. They need the recognition. You can’t do that with all 3,000 names, but you can do it with the top 50. We recommend that pyramid approach.
 Hugh: It’s the old Pareto principle, the 80/20 rule. 80% of your money comes from 20% of your people. The leader is challenged to be able to spend enough time with too many people. My rule of thumb is what you said. You want to spend individual time with your 20%, but you want to stay in touch with the other 80%. Your program is a good way to do that.
 Bill: We slice and dice it even further. I’ll give you an example. They won’t mind me talking about them. It’s a local arts nonprofit that does theater and plays. They have a huge donor database. The ones at the very top get the personal visit, the handwritten note, the crème de la crème.
 The next hunk of several thousand records gets variable data printed communication. Variable data has a salutation, “Dear Sam and Jackie.” This communication flips out pictures of the last show they went to. It’s highly personalized because they have scrubbed the data that far down that they trust it and know it’s accurate. Variable data personalization works as long as it’s accurate.
 The bottom part of the pyramid gets the “Dear friend of XYZ Theater.” The bottom part of it is not personalized because they simply don’t have the resources to scrub their data all the way down and make their salutations are correct and other variable data is accurate.
 Russell: This is important as far as it’s managing your budget. You’re getting the most bang for the buck and where a lot of people don’t think they have money to spend, they may find that after going through and working with someone like you, they may be able to find where they can actually spend the same dollars and get more bang for the buck. When you’re working with an organization, sometimes they have board members or volunteers or different people participating in the process. How important is training for all of these key people? What are some of the most important things for you to cover when you’re training them?
 Bill: Let me do a tangent because something you said reminded me of something. This is back in the early 2000s, 2006/2007, right in there. We had not developed our full-blown three-bit marketing system. We were beginning to gather the data and understand that the rhythmic touching is what’s important.
 I ended up being the chair of a small nonprofit. It was a private school trying to get off the ground in the middle of nowhere, southwest Virginia. We didn’t have the money to hire my company. We were struggling. We had about 300 names of donors and potential donors. We had 10 board members. 300 names, 10 board members. What a coincidence. Here’s what we did. We wrote the letter. We took it to the board meeting and said, “Okay, Sam, you’re on the board. You’re responsible for these 30 potential people. You make copies of the letter, sneak them into church, and pay the postage. That’s why you’re on the board.” We assigned each board member 30 records from that database. As an organization, we didn’t spend any money. We leveraged our board. They each had to make a few copies and come up with 30 first-class stamps. We did that rhythmically. We did that appeal mail three times a year. By the third year, what do you know? We could afford to have someone else do all this.
 That was definitely training board members to get in the trenches. Hugh talks about this all the time. The importance of an energized and dedicated board is, I can’t say enough about it. That is so critical to have in a thriving nonprofit.
 Russell: That it is. It’s all about the people who you have, who support you, who are in your organization. Your team is your secret sauce. That’s where you grow and prosper and create more impact in the lives of others. Knowing how to reach out to them and what really resonates with them is very important. Having that system and having the tools to get them there.
 The one thing we haven’t really touched on is with donors, you have three phases. You’re acquiring them. Then at some point, as they’re sticking with you, you want them to grow, and you want them to stay. There are three pieces to that. If you would, talk a bit about some of the best ways to move them through that process. How do you acquire them? What are some key tips for that? What are some things that will help you grow them? What are some of the most important things to keep them sticking with you?
 Bill: The acquisition part we talked about a bit. The best way is those personal relationships, those personal contacts. The second best way would be doing some data acquisition. You can do it yourself; you don’t have to go through a company like mine. Google “how to acquire donors,” and plenty of places will crop up that will sell you names. That is the acquisition part.
 The rhythm means a lot here. The rhythmic touch is how you keep them and how you make them poised to grow. Usually, it’s in the second or third year that you get the first donation from a brand new contact. To do that, you need to do those rhythmic touches. This is not an overnight success thing. This is in it for the long haul. It’s rare, not unheard of, but rare for someone to move from a $50-per-cycle level to a $5,000-level without something happening. That something could be they come to an event, they hear a speaker, they get a visit from a board member, they get a visit from an executive director. To get that kind of nurturing increase takes something. It’s rare that someone would jump from $40 to $500 or $5,000 through repeated passive asks.
 I think one of the best, it doesn’t fit every nonprofit, is to have that annual luncheon where the board members are assigned to fill tables. When they invite people, they let them know, “We will do a presentation. We will ask to give you some money. You don’t have to, but there will be an ask. We’d really love to have you.” You get people in the room and have dynamic speakers. You have some of the people you serve. It depends on what kind of nonprofit you have. You do things that give people a real glimpse into how you make the world a better place. that has been known to move people from the $50 level to the $500 level or $5,000 level.
 Russell: Well-executed non-ask events are critical, too. Just to let people know, “Hey, we’re good stewards of your money.” There’s some magic about walking them around where they can see where it is people are actually out there in the trenches doing good work. Speaking to some of the things you can acquire and move these services out of the community so they get a working understanding. That growth piece, getting them and growing them, is your lifetime value of a customer for lack of a better way to put it. That takes time. To grow them, you have to keep them. What are the two most important tools?
 Bill: There are some simple things you can do. You need to thank them for their gifts. The pyramid, the top ones should get a personal visit or phone call. At the bottom, maybe it’s a handwritten thank-you note.
 More and more of our clients are doing the board pizza party, where they get their board together and some phones. Around dinnertime, they serve the board pizza, and they call the top donors. They do it around dinnertime so a lot of people don’t answer the phone. But that’s fine. You leave a message. The board member says, “Hey, Dr. Smith. I want to thank you and your wife for your $500 gift to our organization. We really appreciate it. It helps us do this, this, and this.” That donor will remember that. That donor will say, “Hey, a board member called me.” That’s a nice little thing to do, and to touch the top donors that way. The ones at the really top, the big players, probably need the thank you from the chair of the board and the executive director. You can hit a lot of those mid donors with a call from a board member. Think about the donations you make. How often do you get a phone call of thanks? Not many. Maybe I’m not donating enough.
 Russell: It’s always good. It’s just common courtesy. If you’re in a supermarket, someone holds the door. Saying thank you to people is a reflex. But somehow, it seems like from some of the statistics I’ve seen, it’s one of the more common mistakes that people make. They don’t take that time to say thank you. What are a couple other really common mistakes that people make that are just quick and easy to fix?
 Bill: Accurate data is really big. If you say “Dear Sam,” and the name isn’t Sam, that’s not good. You’ve got to be very careful with variable data and personalization. Personalization gone awry does more damage than it does good. One thing we’ve been doing more and more, the post office has gotten better with the deceased persons filter. You try to cut out saying, “Dear John and Sally” when John passed away a year ago. That’s an easy mistake to fix. Run the data through the filter. Don’t mail to dead people if at all possible. Data cleanliness is a common thing. Not thanking is the biggest thing.
 You mentioned something earlier. Every touch can’t be an ask. It really should be more information only touches than there are ask touches. The top donors should get a report at the end of the year, maybe a few months after. Not a fancy annual report, but a sheet of, “Here’s what your donation allowed us to do.” You can do these infographic looks. You can really show people what you’ve done.
 We have a client now that has this neat system. They do three newsletters a year. They have an elderly donor base. These are physical newsletters. Because newsletters are more expensive, they’ve gone to a news postcard. They send out these jumbo postcards three times a year. Short bullet point articles that show their impact. Every one of those short articles, it’s just bullet points and headlines. People don’t read anymore. There is a link to a website you can go to if you want more information. They do this three times a year. In the fourth quarter, they ask. They push out information on a 3:1 ratio with their ask. We recommend something like that. 2:1, 3:1, something like that, so people don’t think, “Good grief. XYZ charity is always asking for money.” It has to be, “Here’s the good things we’re doing.”
 Your social media should be that. Your social media personally I don’t think should ask for money. I think social media should be, “Look what we’re doing. Celebrate with us.”
 Russell: It would certainly be a place to capture your benefactors, the clients online and talk about what’s going on. Some of the sites that the work is being done on, it’s almost like the news medium. When someone hears their name mentioned on social media, you get a thousand followers. Whoa, they’re talking about me. This thing has 1,000 views and 10,000 followers. “Hey, maybe I need to send them another check. They need to get my good side next time.”
 Hugh: That’s part of the story. Telling a story, you have relationships. There are people who want to be in the picture with a big check. I don’t think we think about the amount of stories we need to be telling because we are doing a lot of good work. We don’t really tell people. In fact, social media is social. We are supposed to engage. I see all too often, “Buy this. Do that.” And there is no attempt at a relationship. That is what I’m hearing you saying. In our program, we are building relationships. We are maintaining relationships. People give to people. That is the biggest sound bite. People give to people, not to organizations.
 Bill: I agree. It’s all about relationships. It’s all about telling your story. That’s what relationships are. We as humans are people who have relationships with each other, and we tell stories to each other. It’s the way you come home to your spouse and say, “Hey honey.” We love to tell stories. I think social media is great for this. You have these snippets and tell this vignette story of something your nonprofit did or something that you did. It’s to build relationships.
 The best donor is the one that knows you. I keep coming back to this. You have a personal relationship with them. But you do it by stories. We recommend the hard ask appeal letter everyone does in the fall that it start off with just a three- to four-sentence story that is in a nutshell what you do. Then you make your ask. You take it to the next level. “There are so many kids like Johnny.” In the first paragraph, you tell Johnny’s story. Stories mean a lot.
 Russell: You have really critical points in the year. A lot happens toward the end of the year around Giving Tuesday in the back end of the year. Are there some time periods during the course of the year that you believe nonprofits are leaving money on the table? Maybe there are times to reach out that might be more effective than people pay attention to.
 Bill: That’s another great question. It’s changing. It used to be I would always tell people to do their main appeal early to mid-November because we were told the stats said the most generous week of the year is the week leading up to Thanksgiving. Everybody is starting to feel festive, but they don’t have worries about the credit card bills yet. We’ve also heard that summer is not a great time to ask because so many people are on vacation and will miss the appeal. I tell you though, people are so connected now. With tax law changes, the end of the year may not be as significant of a time as it has been. We are finding more and more of our clients are doing oddly timed appeals. It’s just starting, so they haven’t built a rhythm yet. We have clients who are doing a February appeal and a July appeal. Stay tuned. I’ll have a better answer in three years when we get some data back on that.
 I really think that if you talk with your key constituents, talk to your board and staff and key donors, you’ll know. You’ll know when the appropriate time is to do your ask and your information only.
 Remember the point about you adjust the scale to fit the budget so you can sustain the rhythm. One thing I meant to mention is it’s not just the financial budget. It’s the budget of your time. Here is another common mistake. We see it probably most often with social media. You get all excited. You say, “I’m going to write a blog every week.” I’m going to post it out on Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn. I don’t know many executive directors who have the time to write a blog every week. If you do, more power to you. Our suggestion will be, Are you really? Let’s be realistic about this. Adjust the scale to match the time budget. How much time do you have? Sustain the rhythm. We would counsel you down from once a week to the first Monday every month. If that’s too much, if you can’t stick with that, then once every month.
 Hugh: It’s the regular rhythm that we heard about earlier, too. Speaking of time, we are almost at the top of the hour. Bill, you get the last word. If you have a thought or tip or challenge to give the audience. This has been a helpful interview.
 *Sponsor message from SynerVision Leadership Foundation*
 If you want to talk about how Bill’s services look for you, go to Wordsprint.com. The regular mailing to your tribe makes a difference. Bill, Wordsprint.com is one of our main sponsors, so thank you for that. We talk about you often. You’re leaving this interview. What is your challenge or parting thought for people?
 Bill: My parting thought would be it really is all about relationships. The piece of the puzzle that you or a director or a board member or your staff could do to help your organization the most is to work on those relationships and get that relationship into a database so they can get rhythmic touches. If anyone would like to chat with me about this, we do free consultations, no cost, no obligation, at Wordsprint.com. You can send me a message. I can talk in detail about your organization and things that would work for you. Our system of getting the right message to the right people does not mean you have to use us. You can use current partners. You can do it in-house yourself. It’s the system that works. The right message to the right people with the right rhythm.
 Russell: Bill, thanks again for joining us. Thanks for all the support you give us here at SynerVision Leadership. You certainly make us look good. Folks, do yourself a favor, and have a talk with Bill and his team as to how you can grow donors, keep them, and build those relationships using the right tools by getting out there, sending the right message to the right people in the right rhythm. It needs to look good, but that is only 10%. And it will. Make sure you check out our magazine because it’s a good-looking magazine.
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      <pubDate>Tue, 10 Sep 2019 22:22:25 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/77380d92-b329-11eb-9f0f-0ff972244a41/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Getting The Right Message To The Right People With The Right Rhythm</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Improving Donor Relations: Getting The Right Message To The Right People With The Right RhythmInterview with Wordsprint CEO Bill Gilmer

 Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Hey, folks, it’s Hugh Ballou. Another chapter of The Nonprofit Exchange. Russell David Dennis, last week you and I were in Florida. It’s a good thing we’re not there this week.
 Russell Dennis: Yes, it’s a bit windy down there now. I’m hoping everyone is okay. It’s looking like the storm is turning off and it’s not going as far inland as they initially thought. Hopefully all of our friends and the wonderful people down at Kaiser who made us feel so welcome are okay.
 Hugh: It’s called a hurricane, but it’s really a slowcane. It’s going slowly through there. Welcome folks to this episode. We have a special guest today, Bill Gilmer. He has been on the ride with us ever since we started the magazine. I think over five years ago. Bill Gilmer, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Bill Gilmer: Thanks. Glad to be here. Unlike Russell, I am in chillier Blacksburg, Virginia. No hurricane on my horizon, I don’t think.
 Hugh: Yeah, we just are down the road in Lynchburg. Bill, we ask our guests to say a little bit about themselves. Some background. Why is it you’re doing this important work you’re doing today?
 Bill: My background, I used to be a printer. I used to run a printing company. Over the years, we discovered that most of the work we were doing was for nonprofits. Over the years, we started tracking response rates on donor relation campaigns. We have put together a system of marketing to donors, and that’s what we do every day. Help folks build relationships with their donor base.
 Hugh: You’ve been working with SynerVision five or six years ago. Let’s declare up front that Wordsprint, Bill’s company, is a sponsor of Nonprofit Performance Magazine and SynerVision’s work in general. We talk about you often on these podcasts. It’s a pleasure to have you here live and in person. This is not an infomercial for Wordsprint, but we know the value of your work.
 We talk about the 30/30/30. That’s the secret for success. Just to be clear, people can do this on their own. They don’t need you. But if they want to do it the very best way possible, you know how to do that. I want to be clear on that. Explain what this 30/30/30/10 is all about.
 Bill: What we discovered, and this is lots of data, we started tracking this back in the early 2000s. I think we’re up to 20 million touches, 15,000 campaigns. What we discovered is that there are three things that matter. It’s our three-bit marketing system. There are three things that matter when it comes to donor relations.
 The first is having the right message. The second is getting that right message to the right people. The third is getting the right message to the right people with the right rhythm. We help clients focus their message, stay consistent with their message, stay on message. We help them with the right people by helping with database cleansing, database acquisition, all kinds of demographics and predictive analytics. But most importantly, we have developed a system for staying consistent and rhythmic with your donor touches.
 We’ve observed through all our data that is where many nonprofits fail. It’s the rhythm and consistency. The right message to the right people with the right rhythm. That’s the 30/30/30.
 Hugh: What do you say to people who say, “I’ve tried mailing. It didn’t work. We tried sending out a mailing at the end of the year, and we got a little bit of money, but it doesn’t work, Bill.”
 Bill: I tell them that I tried dieting once last year, and it didn’t work either.
 Hugh: I tried working out once, and it didn’t work either.
 Bill: I tried to exercise once, and it didn’t work. It really is like diet or exercise or physical therapy. These are things that work if you implement them rhythmically. It’s not a quick fix. Rhythm doesn’t become rhythm right away. It needs a few cycles. In fact, on average, for most of our clients, it’s really in the third year of repeated rhythmic touches that the donations start to snowball, that it really begins to build. This is not a showhorse thing. This is drip marketing, if you will. But it works.
 Hugh: It works. I’ve seen it work. Dig a little deeper into the right person and the right message. I want to know more about how I can do this.
 Bill: The right message, the first pillar, is your brand. It’s who you are. It’s why you go to work every day. It’s your mission. It’s your elevator speech. What we found that nonprofits who stay on message, who stay true to themselves about who they are, are the ones more successful over time as opposed to those who try to be all things to all people or try to repackage it or try to rebrand every year. I’m not saying you can’t rebrand, but you need to do so carefully. The right message is mainly a matter of consistency and articulating it clearly. Having the right taglines, having the right logo, having the right paragraphs.
 The right people gets more complicated. It is all about relationships. We find that the nonprofits who succeed are those who create a database culture, where they take those relationships and get them into the database that everyone in the organization is empowered to update. Your best donors are the people you know. People donate to people. People donate to you because they trust you to fulfill your mission. It’s the people you know, the people you run into, the people who come to your open house. These are the best potential donors. The organizations who know how to capture that and bring them into their database so they get rhythmic touches and notifications are the ones who succeed.
 You can also acquire data. We do a lot of this. Using some fancy predictive analytics, we can acquire names of people who are more likely to donate to your cause than others. That is almost a whole topic in itself.
 Hugh: Talk a little bit about that. We constantly run across people who say, “I don’t know anybody.” If we do have people who are in nonprofits that maybe they get donations, but they don’t have a donor management program per se, or they work with a number of early stage. Talk a bit about how you acquire names legally. Is there a magic database program that I can use to connect them with?
 Bill: It’s all legal. There are about six or seven big players in this game called compilers. These are companies who do nothing but purchase, massage, and resell databases. You’ve heard of some of them. Dunne &amp; Bradstreet does this mostly with businesses. Experian. Equifax, the one that had the big data breach. InfoUSA. There are others. There are literally thousands of brokers and people who take the information from these larger players and resell it to folks like us and you.
 Demographics are available. We as a society click a lot. We are on our computers and are clicking. We go to Amazon. We read the paragraph. We look at another book. We order this. We fill out a warranty card. We subscribe to a magazine. We join a club. All of those are data transactions that are public and can be sold and resold. The hard demographics have always been there, things like the value of your home, the car you drive. That’s public information. But these compilers gather so many data points on all of us as consumers that they are able with artificial intelligence help to see patterns and build logorhythms. They know if you’ve done this and this and this, then you are more likely to support a nonprofit that focuses on children and especially disabled children. That is how detailed it can get. Or you are more likely to support a local nonprofit that works in the music arts, like an orchestra or a symphony. We call this predictive analytics. This is data that indicates the likelihood of someone supporting your cause. This has gotten way better than it even was six months ago.
 What we usually do—and Hugh, you have had some recent experience with this with one of your organizations—when we do a database acquisition like this, we then compare it to the organization’s existing donor database. If the predictive analytics have been accurate, there will be considerable overlap. Your organization had 3,000 names. We bought another 700-800. Three years ago, you’d expect 10-12 of those to be an overlap. We had a 250-name overlap in that case. Those analytics were extremely accurate. These are folks not just demographically speaking but in terms of propensity are more likely to support your cause. You still have to touch them and touch them rhythmically. That is where the rhythm thing comes in. That is where you need to establish a system of cadent touches over the course of several cycles. At the end of the second or the beginning of the third year, that is where you will start to see donations come in, and it will start to snowball over time.
 Hugh: When you are talking about clicking, we’re talking about mail in the U.S. We are not talking about email with our computer.
 Bill: I don’t think I caught the last part of your question. In terms of what we advise for donor relations, it’s a combination of mailing and emailing.
 Russell: It’s so systematic to your approach to keeping and maintaining donors. Especially small nonprofits will be overwhelmed when they start thinking about all this data, and maybe a little confused as to what a touchpoint is. Lots of folks like me get lots of mail and email from a lot of the same folks. Maybe they think, “Oh, I don’t want to be this person who is bombarding something with emails a day.” When you talk in terms of touches, there are certain things you are accomplishing with each touch. Let’s take a generic year or quarter and talk about what touchpoints there are and the methods behind them.
 Bill: Let me give you a common example of a mid-sized local nonprofit. Let’s say they have 10-12 staff. On average, our clients would have several touches. They would probably have one event every year. In the spring, they will do a luncheon where they talk about their cause and ask people for money while they are there. They might have a monthly blog. The first Monday of every month, they put something out on social media. They might have a fall appeal mailing. Here is where they write a letter. “Dear Dr. Smith, Here is what we do. Please give us money.” If they are smart, they will have that appeal mailing coupled with an auto trigger email, where the day after Dr. Smith gets the letter, he gets an automatic email that says, “Hey Dr. Smith, did you get our letter yesterday? I bet you trashed it, didn’t ya? You can still click here to support our cause.” Once in the winter and once in the summer, they will do an e-newsletter. They are sending out information two or three times a year. Information only. They are asking for money in a hard ask twice a year. In the example I gave, once with a mailer/email and once with an event. Something like that.
 We have some clients who do mailers and ask for money every month. We have others who do it once a year with a hard mailing. What we don’t have is much success with straight email solicitation. People do like the convenience of donating online, but they don’t trust it unless it has something based in the physical world, whether that’s a letter they got and threw away, then they get the mail. They will trust it a lot more because they have the mail piece. They go to an open house, and they then trust the email because they associate it with the real-life physical experience they had.
 That would be typical. A hard ask twice a year, information only two or three times, and maybe something monthly on social media.
 What we find does not work is the single big blast. So many people want to put all their eggs into one basket. We will have this big shindig and send out 200,000 invitations. It doesn’t do that well. It is better to touch 200 people rhythmically than 200,000 in a blast. Is that helpful?
 Russell: The key is to spread these over with ask, non-ask. Give them information about the programs they were talking about in the newsletter. How the dollars are impacting, how many people were served, what the shift is.
 Bill: Impact is huge.
 Russell: If we’re talking about contacting 200 people at a time, this probably means for a medium-sized nonprofit they are sending stuff out weekly to different donors.  
 Bill: Most of our clients, an average database for our clients is in the range of 2,000-10,000 donors. We often do mailings of 3,000. Sometimes we do 100,000. On average, let’s say 5,000. Most of our clients would do one or two mailings a year. A fall appeal and a spring appeal. In lieu of the spring appeal, sometimes they would do a spring event. The other touches, the social media and the e-newsletter when they are not asking are information only. That would be a balanced mix.
 Let me get to another key point. This is the magic right here. Rhythm is important. Understanding the rhythm that your clients respond to. Most of you know this. Most nonprofit organizations have a pretty good understanding of how often their donors and potential donors want to be asked. Once a year, twice a year, once a month sometimes. The organization usually knows what the rhythm should be. Rhythm is so important that you sustain it over the years that our biggest piece of advice is adjust the scale to match your budget so that you can sustain the rhythm.
 We actually help clients with spreadsheets so it says we want to mail to 20,000 people twice a year. The postage alone exceeds your budget. You can’t do that. “Let’s try it one time.” Don’t do it. Adjust that scale. If you can’t afford the postage of 20,000 appeal letters, can you do 10,000? No. 5,000? You play with that spreadsheet and settle on we can sustain 2,500 twice a year. That’s the amount you go with. You have this pool of 10,000. How do you target down to the 2,500? That’s how you do predictive analytics. Mail to the 2,500 who are most likely to donate to your cause. It’s a budget thing. You adjust your scale to match your budget so you can sustain that rhythm because if you sustain the rhythm through several cycles, it works. This is based on data of what actually works, not what makes you feel or look good, but did the donations come rolling in.
 Russell: What is the best path to help a new organization or client when they come to you? They may have some stuff they kept on Excel, but they don’t necessarily have a donor database or CRM. They looked at these things and thought they were hard to use. They know they need to get better information. Talk about that process where you help them look at the most important factors and how to organize that data and how you guide them to build that so they get effective data from what they are collecting.
 Bill: There are lots of databases out there as you know. We deal with lots of them. People are constantly asking us which one is the best. All I can honestly say is the best one is the one that someone in your organization is willing to dive into. The right operator, any of these databases can sing. They really can. Some of our biggest clients use Salesforce for their nonprofit data. There is a whole spectrum. It’s not so much which CRM system you use. It’s do you have someone and a back-up or two who know how to use it?
 If you have no money and can’t do anything, use Excel. It’s not so much what you use as how you use it. We can assist. We understand a lot of the databases. We love working with Excel in terms of immediate back-and-forth with our clients. They will export their database to a CSV or Excel file, and we will update the addresses and run through a deceased person’s filter. Make sure that list is scrubbed and clean. But we do all that from Excel.
 Russell: It’s a robust program. Microsoft itself. What trips people up more than anything else is understanding what are the most important pieces for me to collect, and then once I collect all of these, what is the best way to categorize or shift my people around or look at now I have it, how do I use it?
 Bill: This leads into something new we have been doing within the last couple of years. Let’s say you inherit a nonprofit. You come in as the new executive director. There has been some staff turnover, and you have three or four huge Excel files with all your donors. You don’t really know your donors. You have some record of who gave when, but you don’t know why the other people are in there. Are they good prospects? We can actually take that database, those Excel files, do all the usual stuff, combine, de-dupe, update the addresses, make sure they aren’t deceased. Then we do something called data append. We send that file—let’s say you have 3,000 names but you only know who 50 are—confidentially to some of these national compilers. They can run it versus their data banks and come back with demographic data filled in where you get age, education level, the value of the home, household income, gender, political persuasion, all sorts of things you can add back to that list. That can be a target. You can say, “Listen, these 300 people don’t match the profile of our donors. I don’t see why we’re mailing to them. They haven’t given to us in five years. Let’s drop them. But these 400 look really good. They match the profile. They are active in the community. Let’s keep them on our list.” We call it scoring data or modeling data. There are all kinds of things like that.
 Russell: There are so many nuances to relating to donors. They come from different backgrounds, education levels, parts of the country. They are in different age groups. When people look at this and say, “I have a lot of different people,” what is the best way for me to organize these groups? What are their touchpoints that are more effective for some groups than others? How do we go about looking at that?
 Bill: One thing I haven’t talked about yet is what channel you use. Is this a demographic that will respond to a Facebook post or a physical newsletter or an e-newsletter? You can ask them. That’s a good question. “Would you prefer to receive this?” Make some age and generation assumptions. Millennials actually like direct mail more than you think. Some older folks don’t like it as much as you think.
 The one thing we do advise people to do is do what we call a scattergraph. That’s where you sit around the table brainstorming and make a graph of your best donors in terms of age, income level, value of home, education level, geography. As you start graphing this, you will have people all over that graph. You will have young kids who donate to your cause. You have great-grandfathers. You have uneducated and educated. But there will be, the more you plot those dots on your graph, a cluster in the middle. That is your sweet spot. If you want to go after and acquire more donors, acquire more who match those demographics. Add those predictive analytics. It’s good to have a profile of who is our sweet spot donor, and how many.
 Russell: Very helpful. When you start working with an organization, what type of organization are you most effective at helping? What are some of the things that the organization can do that will help you get them results a little faster?
 Bill: That’s a great question, Russell. We find that most nonprofits are pretty good at the first 30%, the message. Nonprofits know most well why they do what they do. It’s their passion. It’s why they go to work. They usually have that part nailed down. They have that elevator speech. You can’t shut them up. They got the message.
 We find that we can help a lot with the rhythm. We can build these Excel sheets. We can send reminder notifications. “Make sure your blog is written. It’s due tomorrow.” “Your e-newsletter should launch next week.” We send reminders that keep them on track, like how a FitBit reminds you to hop up and walk around. These notifications keep you on track.
 The one that is hardest is the data. It’s relationships. We don’t know the people in their database, but they do. They know more of them than not. Say the thing in the organization could do is the best results is to go through their database with as many constituents involved as possible: your volunteers, your staff, your key donors. Break it up into small bits, and do a little bit at a time. Try to understand who your donors are. That would probably be the best.
 Leverage your board. Every board member should have a gun to their head that says, “Who do you know who might donate to your cause? Give us their names.” Leverage conversations. Your whole staff should be encouraged.
 You have a new administrative assistant who is helping you with this. She bumps into someone at the grocery store who says, “Hey Sally, I haven’t seen you in a long time. What are you doing?” “I’m working at Habitat for Humanity now. We are doing this and this.” That person says, “Wow, that sounds interesting. Tell me more.” Sally needs to know to come back and get that information in the database. That person she just bumped into in the grocery store is a better prospect than any of these purchased names we are talking about. Everyone in the organization from the board to the staff to the volunteers should realize it is their personal relationships that lead to the best database.
 Russell: It’s a warm referral that is good. One of the things that I’ve seen information on and talked to people about in having people on your team, you want to have good tools for them to use to go out and talk about your organization. If you can take a few minutes, talk about some of the tools, printed tools, the toolkits that you make the board members and volunteers and people with information on the organization, how they organize that, and the tools they have to talk about the organization in the best way.
 Bill: Funny you should ask. We just worked up some handout cards as old-fashioned as that sounds, a little bigger than a business card. The organization calls them the “Get Involved” cards. On one size is the logo and a truncated, poignant abbreviation of the mission. The back features three ways to get involved. You can go to this website and do this. You can become a volunteer and do this. You can call this number and do this. They give these cards to everyone on staff, their volunteers, and encourage them when you are in the grocery store and your old roommate comes up to talk to you, you give them one of the cards. Something as simple as that.
 Russell: It’s important to have those pieces. Is there a way you have people who have these tools, a simple system for them to keep track of how many people are coming? How do you help them document the effectiveness of these tools?
 Bill: We haven’t done a lot of that. The organizations themselves usually keep a database of how many cards did you hand out, and did you talk about it? Ideally you are getting some address/city/state/zip/phone number/email into your database from that encounter. That’s the ideal. When you bump into the old roommate in the grocery store, you ask for a business card or a text so I can keep in touch with you. “I’d like to send some information about XYZ charity.” The ones I know do this on a regular basis have weekly staff meetings and go over contacts. It’s the most important thing. You’re an ambassador for your charity. It’s those contacts. People give to people. I know you think they give to your organization because you do all this good. They give because they know and trust you to carry out that mission. It’s all about trust.
 Hugh: Underlying that is relationship building. I can’t tell you how many nonprofits out there get a check and wait until next year to ask for another check. I don’t know what the average is, but 70% of most nonprofits get the bulk of their money from donors. There is a large percentage.
 Bill: Yeah, we really do need to take care of our donors better. We recommend the pyramid where you take your database and have your top donors at the top. At some point, you draw that line where everyone above this level of giving gets the personal visit from the executive director or the personal phone call or the three phone calls a year, whatever that appropriate nurturing touch is. The ones at the bottom get a thank-you card. The top people, your key donors, need to be acknowledged, need to be thanked. They need the recognition. You can’t do that with all 3,000 names, but you can do it with the top 50. We recommend that pyramid approach.
 Hugh: It’s the old Pareto principle, the 80/20 rule. 80% of your money comes from 20% of your people. The leader is challenged to be able to spend enough time with too many people. My rule of thumb is what you said. You want to spend individual time with your 20%, but you want to stay in touch with the other 80%. Your program is a good way to do that.
 Bill: We slice and dice it even further. I’ll give you an example. They won’t mind me talking about them. It’s a local arts nonprofit that does theater and plays. They have a huge donor database. The ones at the very top get the personal visit, the handwritten note, the crème de la crème.
 The next hunk of several thousand records gets variable data printed communication. Variable data has a salutation, “Dear Sam and Jackie.” This communication flips out pictures of the last show they went to. It’s highly personalized because they have scrubbed the data that far down that they trust it and know it’s accurate. Variable data personalization works as long as it’s accurate.
 The bottom part of the pyramid gets the “Dear friend of XYZ Theater.” The bottom part of it is not personalized because they simply don’t have the resources to scrub their data all the way down and make their salutations are correct and other variable data is accurate.
 Russell: This is important as far as it’s managing your budget. You’re getting the most bang for the buck and where a lot of people don’t think they have money to spend, they may find that after going through and working with someone like you, they may be able to find where they can actually spend the same dollars and get more bang for the buck. When you’re working with an organization, sometimes they have board members or volunteers or different people participating in the process. How important is training for all of these key people? What are some of the most important things for you to cover when you’re training them?
 Bill: Let me do a tangent because something you said reminded me of something. This is back in the early 2000s, 2006/2007, right in there. We had not developed our full-blown three-bit marketing system. We were beginning to gather the data and understand that the rhythmic touching is what’s important.
 I ended up being the chair of a small nonprofit. It was a private school trying to get off the ground in the middle of nowhere, southwest Virginia. We didn’t have the money to hire my company. We were struggling. We had about 300 names of donors and potential donors. We had 10 board members. 300 names, 10 board members. What a coincidence. Here’s what we did. We wrote the letter. We took it to the board meeting and said, “Okay, Sam, you’re on the board. You’re responsible for these 30 potential people. You make copies of the letter, sneak them into church, and pay the postage. That’s why you’re on the board.” We assigned each board member 30 records from that database. As an organization, we didn’t spend any money. We leveraged our board. They each had to make a few copies and come up with 30 first-class stamps. We did that rhythmically. We did that appeal mail three times a year. By the third year, what do you know? We could afford to have someone else do all this.
 That was definitely training board members to get in the trenches. Hugh talks about this all the time. The importance of an energized and dedicated board is, I can’t say enough about it. That is so critical to have in a thriving nonprofit.
 Russell: That it is. It’s all about the people who you have, who support you, who are in your organization. Your team is your secret sauce. That’s where you grow and prosper and create more impact in the lives of others. Knowing how to reach out to them and what really resonates with them is very important. Having that system and having the tools to get them there.
 The one thing we haven’t really touched on is with donors, you have three phases. You’re acquiring them. Then at some point, as they’re sticking with you, you want them to grow, and you want them to stay. There are three pieces to that. If you would, talk a bit about some of the best ways to move them through that process. How do you acquire them? What are some key tips for that? What are some things that will help you grow them? What are some of the most important things to keep them sticking with you?
 Bill: The acquisition part we talked about a bit. The best way is those personal relationships, those personal contacts. The second best way would be doing some data acquisition. You can do it yourself; you don’t have to go through a company like mine. Google “how to acquire donors,” and plenty of places will crop up that will sell you names. That is the acquisition part.
 The rhythm means a lot here. The rhythmic touch is how you keep them and how you make them poised to grow. Usually, it’s in the second or third year that you get the first donation from a brand new contact. To do that, you need to do those rhythmic touches. This is not an overnight success thing. This is in it for the long haul. It’s rare, not unheard of, but rare for someone to move from a $50-per-cycle level to a $5,000-level without something happening. That something could be they come to an event, they hear a speaker, they get a visit from a board member, they get a visit from an executive director. To get that kind of nurturing increase takes something. It’s rare that someone would jump from $40 to $500 or $5,000 through repeated passive asks.
 I think one of the best, it doesn’t fit every nonprofit, is to have that annual luncheon where the board members are assigned to fill tables. When they invite people, they let them know, “We will do a presentation. We will ask to give you some money. You don’t have to, but there will be an ask. We’d really love to have you.” You get people in the room and have dynamic speakers. You have some of the people you serve. It depends on what kind of nonprofit you have. You do things that give people a real glimpse into how you make the world a better place. that has been known to move people from the $50 level to the $500 level or $5,000 level.
 Russell: Well-executed non-ask events are critical, too. Just to let people know, “Hey, we’re good stewards of your money.” There’s some magic about walking them around where they can see where it is people are actually out there in the trenches doing good work. Speaking to some of the things you can acquire and move these services out of the community so they get a working understanding. That growth piece, getting them and growing them, is your lifetime value of a customer for lack of a better way to put it. That takes time. To grow them, you have to keep them. What are the two most important tools?
 Bill: There are some simple things you can do. You need to thank them for their gifts. The pyramid, the top ones should get a personal visit or phone call. At the bottom, maybe it’s a handwritten thank-you note.
 More and more of our clients are doing the board pizza party, where they get their board together and some phones. Around dinnertime, they serve the board pizza, and they call the top donors. They do it around dinnertime so a lot of people don’t answer the phone. But that’s fine. You leave a message. The board member says, “Hey, Dr. Smith. I want to thank you and your wife for your $500 gift to our organization. We really appreciate it. It helps us do this, this, and this.” That donor will remember that. That donor will say, “Hey, a board member called me.” That’s a nice little thing to do, and to touch the top donors that way. The ones at the really top, the big players, probably need the thank you from the chair of the board and the executive director. You can hit a lot of those mid donors with a call from a board member. Think about the donations you make. How often do you get a phone call of thanks? Not many. Maybe I’m not donating enough.
 Russell: It’s always good. It’s just common courtesy. If you’re in a supermarket, someone holds the door. Saying thank you to people is a reflex. But somehow, it seems like from some of the statistics I’ve seen, it’s one of the more common mistakes that people make. They don’t take that time to say thank you. What are a couple other really common mistakes that people make that are just quick and easy to fix?
 Bill: Accurate data is really big. If you say “Dear Sam,” and the name isn’t Sam, that’s not good. You’ve got to be very careful with variable data and personalization. Personalization gone awry does more damage than it does good. One thing we’ve been doing more and more, the post office has gotten better with the deceased persons filter. You try to cut out saying, “Dear John and Sally” when John passed away a year ago. That’s an easy mistake to fix. Run the data through the filter. Don’t mail to dead people if at all possible. Data cleanliness is a common thing. Not thanking is the biggest thing.
 You mentioned something earlier. Every touch can’t be an ask. It really should be more information only touches than there are ask touches. The top donors should get a report at the end of the year, maybe a few months after. Not a fancy annual report, but a sheet of, “Here’s what your donation allowed us to do.” You can do these infographic looks. You can really show people what you’ve done.
 We have a client now that has this neat system. They do three newsletters a year. They have an elderly donor base. These are physical newsletters. Because newsletters are more expensive, they’ve gone to a news postcard. They send out these jumbo postcards three times a year. Short bullet point articles that show their impact. Every one of those short articles, it’s just bullet points and headlines. People don’t read anymore. There is a link to a website you can go to if you want more information. They do this three times a year. In the fourth quarter, they ask. They push out information on a 3:1 ratio with their ask. We recommend something like that. 2:1, 3:1, something like that, so people don’t think, “Good grief. XYZ charity is always asking for money.” It has to be, “Here’s the good things we’re doing.”
 Your social media should be that. Your social media personally I don’t think should ask for money. I think social media should be, “Look what we’re doing. Celebrate with us.”
 Russell: It would certainly be a place to capture your benefactors, the clients online and talk about what’s going on. Some of the sites that the work is being done on, it’s almost like the news medium. When someone hears their name mentioned on social media, you get a thousand followers. Whoa, they’re talking about me. This thing has 1,000 views and 10,000 followers. “Hey, maybe I need to send them another check. They need to get my good side next time.”
 Hugh: That’s part of the story. Telling a story, you have relationships. There are people who want to be in the picture with a big check. I don’t think we think about the amount of stories we need to be telling because we are doing a lot of good work. We don’t really tell people. In fact, social media is social. We are supposed to engage. I see all too often, “Buy this. Do that.” And there is no attempt at a relationship. That is what I’m hearing you saying. In our program, we are building relationships. We are maintaining relationships. People give to people. That is the biggest sound bite. People give to people, not to organizations.
 Bill: I agree. It’s all about relationships. It’s all about telling your story. That’s what relationships are. We as humans are people who have relationships with each other, and we tell stories to each other. It’s the way you come home to your spouse and say, “Hey honey.” We love to tell stories. I think social media is great for this. You have these snippets and tell this vignette story of something your nonprofit did or something that you did. It’s to build relationships.
 The best donor is the one that knows you. I keep coming back to this. You have a personal relationship with them. But you do it by stories. We recommend the hard ask appeal letter everyone does in the fall that it start off with just a three- to four-sentence story that is in a nutshell what you do. Then you make your ask. You take it to the next level. “There are so many kids like Johnny.” In the first paragraph, you tell Johnny’s story. Stories mean a lot.
 Russell: You have really critical points in the year. A lot happens toward the end of the year around Giving Tuesday in the back end of the year. Are there some time periods during the course of the year that you believe nonprofits are leaving money on the table? Maybe there are times to reach out that might be more effective than people pay attention to.
 Bill: That’s another great question. It’s changing. It used to be I would always tell people to do their main appeal early to mid-November because we were told the stats said the most generous week of the year is the week leading up to Thanksgiving. Everybody is starting to feel festive, but they don’t have worries about the credit card bills yet. We’ve also heard that summer is not a great time to ask because so many people are on vacation and will miss the appeal. I tell you though, people are so connected now. With tax law changes, the end of the year may not be as significant of a time as it has been. We are finding more and more of our clients are doing oddly timed appeals. It’s just starting, so they haven’t built a rhythm yet. We have clients who are doing a February appeal and a July appeal. Stay tuned. I’ll have a better answer in three years when we get some data back on that.
 I really think that if you talk with your key constituents, talk to your board and staff and key donors, you’ll know. You’ll know when the appropriate time is to do your ask and your information only.
 Remember the point about you adjust the scale to fit the budget so you can sustain the rhythm. One thing I meant to mention is it’s not just the financial budget. It’s the budget of your time. Here is another common mistake. We see it probably most often with social media. You get all excited. You say, “I’m going to write a blog every week.” I’m going to post it out on Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn. I don’t know many executive directors who have the time to write a blog every week. If you do, more power to you. Our suggestion will be, Are you really? Let’s be realistic about this. Adjust the scale to match the time budget. How much time do you have? Sustain the rhythm. We would counsel you down from once a week to the first Monday every month. If that’s too much, if you can’t stick with that, then once every month.
 Hugh: It’s the regular rhythm that we heard about earlier, too. Speaking of time, we are almost at the top of the hour. Bill, you get the last word. If you have a thought or tip or challenge to give the audience. This has been a helpful interview.
 *Sponsor message from SynerVision Leadership Foundation*
 If you want to talk about how Bill’s services look for you, go to Wordsprint.com. The regular mailing to your tribe makes a difference. Bill, Wordsprint.com is one of our main sponsors, so thank you for that. We talk about you often. You’re leaving this interview. What is your challenge or parting thought for people?
 Bill: My parting thought would be it really is all about relationships. The piece of the puzzle that you or a director or a board member or your staff could do to help your organization the most is to work on those relationships and get that relationship into a database so they can get rhythmic touches. If anyone would like to chat with me about this, we do free consultations, no cost, no obligation, at Wordsprint.com. You can send me a message. I can talk in detail about your organization and things that would work for you. Our system of getting the right message to the right people does not mean you have to use us. You can use current partners. You can do it in-house yourself. It’s the system that works. The right message to the right people with the right rhythm.
 Russell: Bill, thanks again for joining us. Thanks for all the support you give us here at SynerVision Leadership. You certainly make us look good. Folks, do yourself a favor, and have a talk with Bill and his team as to how you can grow donors, keep them, and build those relationships using the right tools by getting out there, sending the right message to the right people in the right rhythm. It needs to look good, but that is only 10%. And it will. Make sure you check out our magazine because it’s a good-looking magazine.
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<strong>Improving Donor Relations: Getting The Right Message To The Right People With The Right Rhythm<br></strong><strong>Interview with Wordsprint CEO Bill Gilmer</strong>
</h1> <strong>Read the Interview</strong> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Hey, folks, it’s Hugh Ballou. Another chapter of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Russell David Dennis, last week you and I were in Florida. It’s a good thing we’re not there this week.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Yes, it’s a bit windy down there now. I’m hoping everyone is okay. It’s looking like the storm is turning off and it’s not going as far inland as they initially thought. Hopefully all of our friends and the wonderful people down at Kaiser who made us feel so welcome are okay.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s called a hurricane, but it’s really a slowcane. It’s going slowly through there. Welcome folks to this episode. We have a special guest today, Bill Gilmer. He has been on the ride with us ever since we started the magazine. I think over five years ago. Bill Gilmer, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em></p> <p><strong>Bill Gilmer:</strong> Thanks. Glad to be here. Unlike Russell, I am in chillier Blacksburg, Virginia. No hurricane on my horizon, I don’t think.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yeah, we just are down the road in Lynchburg. Bill, we ask our guests to say a little bit about themselves. Some background. Why is it you’re doing this important work you’re doing today?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> My background, I used to be a printer. I used to run a printing company. Over the years, we discovered that most of the work we were doing was for nonprofits. Over the years, we started tracking response rates on donor relation campaigns. We have put together a system of marketing to donors, and that’s what we do every day. Help folks build relationships with their donor base.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’ve been working with SynerVision five or six years ago. Let’s declare up front that Wordsprint, Bill’s company, is a sponsor of <em>Nonprofit Performance Magazine</em> and SynerVision’s work in general. We talk about you often on these podcasts. It’s a pleasure to have you here live and in person. This is not an infomercial for Wordsprint, but we know the value of your work.</p> <p>We talk about the 30/30/30. That’s the secret for success. Just to be clear, people can do this on their own. They don’t need you. But if they want to do it the very best way possible, you know how to do that. I want to be clear on that. Explain what this 30/30/30/10 is all about.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> What we discovered, and this is lots of data, we started tracking this back in the early 2000s. I think we’re up to 20 million touches, 15,000 campaigns. What we discovered is that there are three things that matter. It’s our three-bit marketing system. There are three things that matter when it comes to donor relations.</p> <p>The first is having the right message. The second is getting that right message to the right people. The third is getting the right message to the right people with the right rhythm. We help clients focus their message, stay consistent with their message, stay on message. We help them with the right people by helping with database cleansing, database acquisition, all kinds of demographics and predictive analytics. But most importantly, we have developed a system for staying consistent and rhythmic with your donor touches.</p> <p>We’ve observed through all our data that is where many nonprofits fail. It’s the rhythm and consistency. The right message to the right people with the right rhythm. That’s the 30/30/30.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What do you say to people who say, “I’ve tried mailing. It didn’t work. We tried sending out a mailing at the end of the year, and we got a little bit of money, but it doesn’t work, Bill.”</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> I tell them that I tried dieting once last year, and it didn’t work either.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I tried working out once, and it didn’t work either.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> I tried to exercise once, and it didn’t work. It really is like diet or exercise or physical therapy. These are things that work if you implement them rhythmically. It’s not a quick fix. Rhythm doesn’t become rhythm right away. It needs a few cycles. In fact, on average, for most of our clients, it’s really in the third year of repeated rhythmic touches that the donations start to snowball, that it really begins to build. This is not a showhorse thing. This is drip marketing, if you will. But it works.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It works. I’ve seen it work. Dig a little deeper into the right person and the right message. I want to know more about how I can do this.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> The right message, the first pillar, is your brand. It’s who you are. It’s why you go to work every day. It’s your mission. It’s your elevator speech. What we found that nonprofits who stay on message, who stay true to themselves about who they are, are the ones more successful over time as opposed to those who try to be all things to all people or try to repackage it or try to rebrand every year. I’m not saying you can’t rebrand, but you need to do so carefully. The right message is mainly a matter of consistency and articulating it clearly. Having the right taglines, having the right logo, having the right paragraphs.</p> <p>The right people gets more complicated. It is all about relationships. We find that the nonprofits who succeed are those who create a database culture, where they take those relationships and get them into the database that everyone in the organization is empowered to update. Your best donors are the people you know. People donate to people. People donate to you because they trust you to fulfill your mission. It’s the people you know, the people you run into, the people who come to your open house. These are the best potential donors. The organizations who know how to capture that and bring them into their database so they get rhythmic touches and notifications are the ones who succeed.</p> <p>You can also acquire data. We do a lot of this. Using some fancy predictive analytics, we can acquire names of people who are more likely to donate to your cause than others. That is almost a whole topic in itself.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Talk a little bit about that. We constantly run across people who say, “I don’t know anybody.” If we do have people who are in nonprofits that maybe they get donations, but they don’t have a donor management program per se, or they work with a number of early stage. Talk a bit about how you acquire names legally. Is there a magic database program that I can use to connect them with?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> It’s all legal. There are about six or seven big players in this game called compilers. These are companies who do nothing but purchase, massage, and resell databases. You’ve heard of some of them. Dunne &amp; Bradstreet does this mostly with businesses. Experian. Equifax, the one that had the big data breach. InfoUSA. There are others. There are literally thousands of brokers and people who take the information from these larger players and resell it to folks like us and you.</p> <p>Demographics are available. We as a society click a lot. We are on our computers and are clicking. We go to Amazon. We read the paragraph. We look at another book. We order this. We fill out a warranty card. We subscribe to a magazine. We join a club. All of those are data transactions that are public and can be sold and resold. The hard demographics have always been there, things like the value of your home, the car you drive. That’s public information. But these compilers gather so many data points on all of us as consumers that they are able with artificial intelligence help to see patterns and build logorhythms. They know if you’ve done this and this and this, then you are more likely to support a nonprofit that focuses on children and especially disabled children. That is how detailed it can get. Or you are more likely to support a local nonprofit that works in the music arts, like an orchestra or a symphony. We call this predictive analytics. This is data that indicates the likelihood of someone supporting your cause. This has gotten way better than it even was six months ago.</p> <p>What we usually do—and Hugh, you have had some recent experience with this with one of your organizations—when we do a database acquisition like this, we then compare it to the organization’s existing donor database. If the predictive analytics have been accurate, there will be considerable overlap. Your organization had 3,000 names. We bought another 700-800. Three years ago, you’d expect 10-12 of those to be an overlap. We had a 250-name overlap in that case. Those analytics were extremely accurate. These are folks not just demographically speaking but in terms of propensity are more likely to support your cause. You still have to touch them and touch them rhythmically. That is where the rhythm thing comes in. That is where you need to establish a system of cadent touches over the course of several cycles. At the end of the second or the beginning of the third year, that is where you will start to see donations come in, and it will start to snowball over time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When you are talking about clicking, we’re talking about mail in the U.S. We are not talking about email with our computer.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> I don’t think I caught the last part of your question. In terms of what we advise for donor relations, it’s a combination of mailing and emailing.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s so systematic to your approach to keeping and maintaining donors. Especially small nonprofits will be overwhelmed when they start thinking about all this data, and maybe a little confused as to what a touchpoint is. Lots of folks like me get lots of mail and email from a lot of the same folks. Maybe they think, “Oh, I don’t want to be this person who is bombarding something with emails a day.” When you talk in terms of touches, there are certain things you are accomplishing with each touch. Let’s take a generic year or quarter and talk about what touchpoints there are and the methods behind them.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Let me give you a common example of a mid-sized local nonprofit. Let’s say they have 10-12 staff. On average, our clients would have several touches. They would probably have one event every year. In the spring, they will do a luncheon where they talk about their cause and ask people for money while they are there. They might have a monthly blog. The first Monday of every month, they put something out on social media. They might have a fall appeal mailing. Here is where they write a letter. “Dear Dr. Smith, Here is what we do. Please give us money.” If they are smart, they will have that appeal mailing coupled with an auto trigger email, where the day after Dr. Smith gets the letter, he gets an automatic email that says, “Hey Dr. Smith, did you get our letter yesterday? I bet you trashed it, didn’t ya? You can still click here to support our cause.” Once in the winter and once in the summer, they will do an e-newsletter. They are sending out information two or three times a year. Information only. They are asking for money in a hard ask twice a year. In the example I gave, once with a mailer/email and once with an event. Something like that.</p> <p>We have some clients who do mailers and ask for money every month. We have others who do it once a year with a hard mailing. What we don’t have is much success with straight email solicitation. People do like the convenience of donating online, but they don’t trust it unless it has something based in the physical world, whether that’s a letter they got and threw away, then they get the mail. They will trust it a lot more because they have the mail piece. They go to an open house, and they then trust the email because they associate it with the real-life physical experience they had.</p> <p>That would be typical. A hard ask twice a year, information only two or three times, and maybe something monthly on social media.</p> <p>What we find does not work is the single big blast. So many people want to put all their eggs into one basket. We will have this big shindig and send out 200,000 invitations. It doesn’t do that well. It is better to touch 200 people rhythmically than 200,000 in a blast. Is that helpful?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The key is to spread these over with ask, non-ask. Give them information about the programs they were talking about in the newsletter. How the dollars are impacting, how many people were served, what the shift is.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Impact is huge.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> If we’re talking about contacting 200 people at a time, this probably means for a medium-sized nonprofit they are sending stuff out weekly to different donors. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Most of our clients, an average database for our clients is in the range of 2,000-10,000 donors. We often do mailings of 3,000. Sometimes we do 100,000. On average, let’s say 5,000. Most of our clients would do one or two mailings a year. A fall appeal and a spring appeal. In lieu of the spring appeal, sometimes they would do a spring event. The other touches, the social media and the e-newsletter when they are not asking are information only. That would be a balanced mix.</p> <p>Let me get to another key point. This is the magic right here. Rhythm is important. Understanding the rhythm that your clients respond to. Most of you know this. Most nonprofit organizations have a pretty good understanding of how often their donors and potential donors want to be asked. Once a year, twice a year, once a month sometimes. The organization usually knows what the rhythm should be. Rhythm is so important that you sustain it over the years that our biggest piece of advice is adjust the scale to match your budget so that you can sustain the rhythm.</p> <p>We actually help clients with spreadsheets so it says we want to mail to 20,000 people twice a year. The postage alone exceeds your budget. You can’t do that. “Let’s try it one time.” Don’t do it. Adjust that scale. If you can’t afford the postage of 20,000 appeal letters, can you do 10,000? No. 5,000? You play with that spreadsheet and settle on we can sustain 2,500 twice a year. That’s the amount you go with. You have this pool of 10,000. How do you target down to the 2,500? That’s how you do predictive analytics. Mail to the 2,500 who are most likely to donate to your cause. It’s a budget thing. You adjust your scale to match your budget so you can sustain that rhythm because if you sustain the rhythm through several cycles, it works. This is based on data of what actually works, not what makes you feel or look good, but did the donations come rolling in.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What is the best path to help a new organization or client when they come to you? They may have some stuff they kept on Excel, but they don’t necessarily have a donor database or CRM. They looked at these things and thought they were hard to use. They know they need to get better information. Talk about that process where you help them look at the most important factors and how to organize that data and how you guide them to build that so they get effective data from what they are collecting.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> There are lots of databases out there as you know. We deal with lots of them. People are constantly asking us which one is the best. All I can honestly say is the best one is the one that someone in your organization is willing to dive into. The right operator, any of these databases can sing. They really can. Some of our biggest clients use Salesforce for their nonprofit data. There is a whole spectrum. It’s not so much which CRM system you use. It’s do you have someone and a back-up or two who know how to use it?</p> <p>If you have no money and can’t do anything, use Excel. It’s not so much what you use as how you use it. We can assist. We understand a lot of the databases. We love working with Excel in terms of immediate back-and-forth with our clients. They will export their database to a CSV or Excel file, and we will update the addresses and run through a deceased person’s filter. Make sure that list is scrubbed and clean. But we do all that from Excel.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s a robust program. Microsoft itself. What trips people up more than anything else is understanding what are the most important pieces for me to collect, and then once I collect all of these, what is the best way to categorize or shift my people around or look at now I have it, how do I use it?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> This leads into something new we have been doing within the last couple of years. Let’s say you inherit a nonprofit. You come in as the new executive director. There has been some staff turnover, and you have three or four huge Excel files with all your donors. You don’t really know your donors. You have some record of who gave when, but you don’t know why the other people are in there. Are they good prospects? We can actually take that database, those Excel files, do all the usual stuff, combine, de-dupe, update the addresses, make sure they aren’t deceased. Then we do something called data append. We send that file—let’s say you have 3,000 names but you only know who 50 are—confidentially to some of these national compilers. They can run it versus their data banks and come back with demographic data filled in where you get age, education level, the value of the home, household income, gender, political persuasion, all sorts of things you can add back to that list. That can be a target. You can say, “Listen, these 300 people don’t match the profile of our donors. I don’t see why we’re mailing to them. They haven’t given to us in five years. Let’s drop them. But these 400 look really good. They match the profile. They are active in the community. Let’s keep them on our list.” We call it scoring data or modeling data. There are all kinds of things like that.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There are so many nuances to relating to donors. They come from different backgrounds, education levels, parts of the country. They are in different age groups. When people look at this and say, “I have a lot of different people,” what is the best way for me to organize these groups? What are their touchpoints that are more effective for some groups than others? How do we go about looking at that?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> One thing I haven’t talked about yet is what channel you use. Is this a demographic that will respond to a Facebook post or a physical newsletter or an e-newsletter? You can ask them. That’s a good question. “Would you prefer to receive this?” Make some age and generation assumptions. Millennials actually like direct mail more than you think. Some older folks don’t like it as much as you think.</p> <p>The one thing we do advise people to do is do what we call a scattergraph. That’s where you sit around the table brainstorming and make a graph of your best donors in terms of age, income level, value of home, education level, geography. As you start graphing this, you will have people all over that graph. You will have young kids who donate to your cause. You have great-grandfathers. You have uneducated and educated. But there will be, the more you plot those dots on your graph, a cluster in the middle. That is your sweet spot. If you want to go after and acquire more donors, acquire more who match those demographics. Add those predictive analytics. It’s good to have a profile of who is our sweet spot donor, and how many.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Very helpful. When you start working with an organization, what type of organization are you most effective at helping? What are some of the things that the organization can do that will help you get them results a little faster?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> That’s a great question, Russell. We find that most nonprofits are pretty good at the first 30%, the message. Nonprofits know most well why they do what they do. It’s their passion. It’s why they go to work. They usually have that part nailed down. They have that elevator speech. You can’t shut them up. They got the message.</p> <p>We find that we can help a lot with the rhythm. We can build these Excel sheets. We can send reminder notifications. “Make sure your blog is written. It’s due tomorrow.” “Your e-newsletter should launch next week.” We send reminders that keep them on track, like how a FitBit reminds you to hop up and walk around. These notifications keep you on track.</p> <p>The one that is hardest is the data. It’s relationships. We don’t know the people in their database, but they do. They know more of them than not. Say the thing in the organization could do is the best results is to go through their database with as many constituents involved as possible: your volunteers, your staff, your key donors. Break it up into small bits, and do a little bit at a time. Try to understand who your donors are. That would probably be the best.</p> <p>Leverage your board. Every board member should have a gun to their head that says, “Who do you know who might donate to your cause? Give us their names.” Leverage conversations. Your whole staff should be encouraged.</p> <p>You have a new administrative assistant who is helping you with this. She bumps into someone at the grocery store who says, “Hey Sally, I haven’t seen you in a long time. What are you doing?” “I’m working at Habitat for Humanity now. We are doing this and this.” That person says, “Wow, that sounds interesting. Tell me more.” Sally needs to know to come back and get that information in the database. That person she just bumped into in the grocery store is a better prospect than any of these purchased names we are talking about. Everyone in the organization from the board to the staff to the volunteers should realize it is their personal relationships that lead to the best database.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s a warm referral that is good. One of the things that I’ve seen information on and talked to people about in having people on your team, you want to have good tools for them to use to go out and talk about your organization. If you can take a few minutes, talk about some of the tools, printed tools, the toolkits that you make the board members and volunteers and people with information on the organization, how they organize that, and the tools they have to talk about the organization in the best way.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Funny you should ask. We just worked up some handout cards as old-fashioned as that sounds, a little bigger than a business card. The organization calls them the “Get Involved” cards. On one size is the logo and a truncated, poignant abbreviation of the mission. The back features three ways to get involved. You can go to this website and do this. You can become a volunteer and do this. You can call this number and do this. They give these cards to everyone on staff, their volunteers, and encourage them when you are in the grocery store and your old roommate comes up to talk to you, you give them one of the cards. Something as simple as that.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s important to have those pieces. Is there a way you have people who have these tools, a simple system for them to keep track of how many people are coming? How do you help them document the effectiveness of these tools?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> We haven’t done a lot of that. The organizations themselves usually keep a database of how many cards did you hand out, and did you talk about it? Ideally you are getting some address/city/state/zip/phone number/email into your database from that encounter. That’s the ideal. When you bump into the old roommate in the grocery store, you ask for a business card or a text so I can keep in touch with you. “I’d like to send some information about XYZ charity.” The ones I know do this on a regular basis have weekly staff meetings and go over contacts. It’s the most important thing. You’re an ambassador for your charity. It’s those contacts. People give to people. I know you think they give to your organization because you do all this good. They give because they know and trust you to carry out that mission. It’s all about trust.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Underlying that is relationship building. I can’t tell you how many nonprofits out there get a check and wait until next year to ask for another check. I don’t know what the average is, but 70% of most nonprofits get the bulk of their money from donors. There is a large percentage.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Yeah, we really do need to take care of our donors better. We recommend the pyramid where you take your database and have your top donors at the top. At some point, you draw that line where everyone above this level of giving gets the personal visit from the executive director or the personal phone call or the three phone calls a year, whatever that appropriate nurturing touch is. The ones at the bottom get a thank-you card. The top people, your key donors, need to be acknowledged, need to be thanked. They need the recognition. You can’t do that with all 3,000 names, but you can do it with the top 50. We recommend that pyramid approach.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s the old Pareto principle, the 80/20 rule. 80% of your money comes from 20% of your people. The leader is challenged to be able to spend enough time with too many people. My rule of thumb is what you said. You want to spend individual time with your 20%, but you want to stay in touch with the other 80%. Your program is a good way to do that.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> We slice and dice it even further. I’ll give you an example. They won’t mind me talking about them. It’s a local arts nonprofit that does theater and plays. They have a huge donor database. The ones at the very top get the personal visit, the handwritten note, the crème de la crème.</p> <p>The next hunk of several thousand records gets variable data printed communication. Variable data has a salutation, “Dear Sam and Jackie.” This communication flips out pictures of the last show they went to. It’s highly personalized because they have scrubbed the data that far down that they trust it and know it’s accurate. Variable data personalization works as long as it’s accurate.</p> <p>The bottom part of the pyramid gets the “Dear friend of XYZ Theater.” The bottom part of it is not personalized because they simply don’t have the resources to scrub their data all the way down and make their salutations are correct and other variable data is accurate.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is important as far as it’s managing your budget. You’re getting the most bang for the buck and where a lot of people don’t think they have money to spend, they may find that after going through and working with someone like you, they may be able to find where they can actually spend the same dollars and get more bang for the buck. When you’re working with an organization, sometimes they have board members or volunteers or different people participating in the process. How important is training for all of these key people? What are some of the most important things for you to cover when you’re training them?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Let me do a tangent because something you said reminded me of something. This is back in the early 2000s, 2006/2007, right in there. We had not developed our full-blown three-bit marketing system. We were beginning to gather the data and understand that the rhythmic touching is what’s important.</p> <p>I ended up being the chair of a small nonprofit. It was a private school trying to get off the ground in the middle of nowhere, southwest Virginia. We didn’t have the money to hire my company. We were struggling. We had about 300 names of donors and potential donors. We had 10 board members. 300 names, 10 board members. What a coincidence. Here’s what we did. We wrote the letter. We took it to the board meeting and said, “Okay, Sam, you’re on the board. You’re responsible for these 30 potential people. You make copies of the letter, sneak them into church, and pay the postage. That’s why you’re on the board.” We assigned each board member 30 records from that database. As an organization, we didn’t spend any money. We leveraged our board. They each had to make a few copies and come up with 30 first-class stamps. We did that rhythmically. We did that appeal mail three times a year. By the third year, what do you know? We could afford to have someone else do all this.</p> <p>That was definitely training board members to get in the trenches. Hugh talks about this all the time. The importance of an energized and dedicated board is, I can’t say enough about it. That is so critical to have in a thriving nonprofit.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That it is. It’s all about the people who you have, who support you, who are in your organization. Your team is your secret sauce. That’s where you grow and prosper and create more impact in the lives of others. Knowing how to reach out to them and what really resonates with them is very important. Having that system and having the tools to get them there.</p> <p>The one thing we haven’t really touched on is with donors, you have three phases. You’re acquiring them. Then at some point, as they’re sticking with you, you want them to grow, and you want them to stay. There are three pieces to that. If you would, talk a bit about some of the best ways to move them through that process. How do you acquire them? What are some key tips for that? What are some things that will help you grow them? What are some of the most important things to keep them sticking with you?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> The acquisition part we talked about a bit. The best way is those personal relationships, those personal contacts. The second best way would be doing some data acquisition. You can do it yourself; you don’t have to go through a company like mine. Google “how to acquire donors,” and plenty of places will crop up that will sell you names. That is the acquisition part.</p> <p>The rhythm means a lot here. The rhythmic touch is how you keep them and how you make them poised to grow. Usually, it’s in the second or third year that you get the first donation from a brand new contact. To do that, you need to do those rhythmic touches. This is not an overnight success thing. This is in it for the long haul. It’s rare, not unheard of, but rare for someone to move from a $50-per-cycle level to a $5,000-level without something happening. That something could be they come to an event, they hear a speaker, they get a visit from a board member, they get a visit from an executive director. To get that kind of nurturing increase takes something. It’s rare that someone would jump from $40 to $500 or $5,000 through repeated passive asks.</p> <p>I think one of the best, it doesn’t fit every nonprofit, is to have that annual luncheon where the board members are assigned to fill tables. When they invite people, they let them know, “We will do a presentation. We will ask to give you some money. You don’t have to, but there will be an ask. We’d really love to have you.” You get people in the room and have dynamic speakers. You have some of the people you serve. It depends on what kind of nonprofit you have. You do things that give people a real glimpse into how you make the world a better place. that has been known to move people from the $50 level to the $500 level or $5,000 level.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Well-executed non-ask events are critical, too. Just to let people know, “Hey, we’re good stewards of your money.” There’s some magic about walking them around where they can see where it is people are actually out there in the trenches doing good work. Speaking to some of the things you can acquire and move these services out of the community so they get a working understanding. That growth piece, getting them and growing them, is your lifetime value of a customer for lack of a better way to put it. That takes time. To grow them, you have to keep them. What are the two most important tools?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> There are some simple things you can do. You need to thank them for their gifts. The pyramid, the top ones should get a personal visit or phone call. At the bottom, maybe it’s a handwritten thank-you note.</p> <p>More and more of our clients are doing the board pizza party, where they get their board together and some phones. Around dinnertime, they serve the board pizza, and they call the top donors. They do it around dinnertime so a lot of people don’t answer the phone. But that’s fine. You leave a message. The board member says, “Hey, Dr. Smith. I want to thank you and your wife for your $500 gift to our organization. We really appreciate it. It helps us do this, this, and this.” That donor will remember that. That donor will say, “Hey, a board member called me.” That’s a nice little thing to do, and to touch the top donors that way. The ones at the really top, the big players, probably need the thank you from the chair of the board and the executive director. You can hit a lot of those mid donors with a call from a board member. Think about the donations you make. How often do you get a phone call of thanks? Not many. Maybe I’m not donating enough.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s always good. It’s just common courtesy. If you’re in a supermarket, someone holds the door. Saying thank you to people is a reflex. But somehow, it seems like from some of the statistics I’ve seen, it’s one of the more common mistakes that people make. They don’t take that time to say thank you. What are a couple other really common mistakes that people make that are just quick and easy to fix?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Accurate data is really big. If you say “Dear Sam,” and the name isn’t Sam, that’s not good. You’ve got to be very careful with variable data and personalization. Personalization gone awry does more damage than it does good. One thing we’ve been doing more and more, the post office has gotten better with the deceased persons filter. You try to cut out saying, “Dear John and Sally” when John passed away a year ago. That’s an easy mistake to fix. Run the data through the filter. Don’t mail to dead people if at all possible. Data cleanliness is a common thing. Not thanking is the biggest thing.</p> <p>You mentioned something earlier. Every touch can’t be an ask. It really should be more information only touches than there are ask touches. The top donors should get a report at the end of the year, maybe a few months after. Not a fancy annual report, but a sheet of, “Here’s what your donation allowed us to do.” You can do these infographic looks. You can really show people what you’ve done.</p> <p>We have a client now that has this neat system. They do three newsletters a year. They have an elderly donor base. These are physical newsletters. Because newsletters are more expensive, they’ve gone to a news postcard. They send out these jumbo postcards three times a year. Short bullet point articles that show their impact. Every one of those short articles, it’s just bullet points and headlines. People don’t read anymore. There is a link to a website you can go to if you want more information. They do this three times a year. In the fourth quarter, they ask. They push out information on a 3:1 ratio with their ask. We recommend something like that. 2:1, 3:1, something like that, so people don’t think, “Good grief. XYZ charity is always asking for money.” It has to be, “Here’s the good things we’re doing.”</p> <p>Your social media should be that. Your social media personally I don’t think should ask for money. I think social media should be, “Look what we’re doing. Celebrate with us.”</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It would certainly be a place to capture your benefactors, the clients online and talk about what’s going on. Some of the sites that the work is being done on, it’s almost like the news medium. When someone hears their name mentioned on social media, you get a thousand followers. Whoa, they’re talking about me. This thing has 1,000 views and 10,000 followers. “Hey, maybe I need to send them another check. They need to get my good side next time.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s part of the story. Telling a story, you have relationships. There are people who want to be in the picture with a big check. I don’t think we think about the amount of stories we need to be telling because we are doing a lot of good work. We don’t really tell people. In fact, social media is social. We are supposed to engage. I see all too often, “Buy this. Do that.” And there is no attempt at a relationship. That is what I’m hearing you saying. In our program, we are building relationships. We are maintaining relationships. People give to people. That is the biggest sound bite. People give to people, not to organizations.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> I agree. It’s all about relationships. It’s all about telling your story. That’s what relationships are. We as humans are people who have relationships with each other, and we tell stories to each other. It’s the way you come home to your spouse and say, “Hey honey.” We love to tell stories. I think social media is great for this. You have these snippets and tell this vignette story of something your nonprofit did or something that you did. It’s to build relationships.</p> <p>The best donor is the one that knows you. I keep coming back to this. You have a personal relationship with them. But you do it by stories. We recommend the hard ask appeal letter everyone does in the fall that it start off with just a three- to four-sentence story that is in a nutshell what you do. Then you make your ask. You take it to the next level. “There are so many kids like Johnny.” In the first paragraph, you tell Johnny’s story. Stories mean a lot.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You have really critical points in the year. A lot happens toward the end of the year around Giving Tuesday in the back end of the year. Are there some time periods during the course of the year that you believe nonprofits are leaving money on the table? Maybe there are times to reach out that might be more effective than people pay attention to.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> That’s another great question. It’s changing. It used to be I would always tell people to do their main appeal early to mid-November because we were told the stats said the most generous week of the year is the week leading up to Thanksgiving. Everybody is starting to feel festive, but they don’t have worries about the credit card bills yet. We’ve also heard that summer is not a great time to ask because so many people are on vacation and will miss the appeal. I tell you though, people are so connected now. With tax law changes, the end of the year may not be as significant of a time as it has been. We are finding more and more of our clients are doing oddly timed appeals. It’s just starting, so they haven’t built a rhythm yet. We have clients who are doing a February appeal and a July appeal. Stay tuned. I’ll have a better answer in three years when we get some data back on that.</p> <p>I really think that if you talk with your key constituents, talk to your board and staff and key donors, you’ll know. You’ll know when the appropriate time is to do your ask and your information only.</p> <p>Remember the point about you adjust the scale to fit the budget so you can sustain the rhythm. One thing I meant to mention is it’s not just the financial budget. It’s the budget of your time. Here is another common mistake. We see it probably most often with social media. You get all excited. You say, “I’m going to write a blog every week.” I’m going to post it out on Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn. I don’t know many executive directors who have the time to write a blog every week. If you do, more power to you. Our suggestion will be, Are you really? Let’s be realistic about this. Adjust the scale to match the time budget. How much time do you have? Sustain the rhythm. We would counsel you down from once a week to the first Monday every month. If that’s too much, if you can’t stick with that, then once every month.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s the regular rhythm that we heard about earlier, too. Speaking of time, we are almost at the top of the hour. Bill, you get the last word. If you have a thought or tip or challenge to give the audience. This has been a helpful interview.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from SynerVision Leadership Foundation*</p> <p>If you want to talk about how Bill’s services look for you, go to Wordsprint.com. The regular mailing to your tribe makes a difference. Bill, Wordsprint.com is one of our main sponsors, so thank you for that. We talk about you often. You’re leaving this interview. What is your challenge or parting thought for people?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> My parting thought would be it really is all about relationships. The piece of the puzzle that you or a director or a board member or your staff could do to help your organization the most is to work on those relationships and get that relationship into a database so they can get rhythmic touches. If anyone would like to chat with me about this, we do free consultations, no cost, no obligation, at Wordsprint.com. You can send me a message. I can talk in detail about your organization and things that would work for you. Our system of getting the right message to the right people does not mean you have to use us. You can use current partners. You can do it in-house yourself. It’s the system that works. The right message to the right people with the right rhythm.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Bill, thanks again for joining us. Thanks for all the support you give us here at SynerVision Leadership. You certainly make us look good. Folks, do yourself a favor, and have a talk with Bill and his team as to how you can grow donors, keep them, and build those relationships using the right tools by getting out there, sending the right message to the right people in the right rhythm. It needs to look good, but that is only 10%. And it will. Make sure you check out our magazine because it’s a good-looking magazine.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>What are the Secrets to Scaling Your Nonprofit with Lauren Cohen</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/what-are-the-secrets-to-scaling-your-nonprofit-with-lauren-cohen</link>
      <description>What are the Secrets to Scaling Your Nonprofit with Lauren Cohen (archive)
 Global entrepreneur and #1 bestselling author Lauren A. Cohenis an attorney licensed in both the U.S. and Canada. Lauren is an expert concierge immigration and business legal advisor boasting a stellar track record of success. Lauren has first-hand knowledge of the visa process, having herself immigrated from Canada in 2001, and later becoming an American citizen in 2012.
 In 2008, Lauren started e-Council Inc. an internationally-acclaimed company focused on providing concierge strategic full-service solutions for businesses seeking capital and foreign entrepreneurs seeking access to the U.S. market. In 2017, Lauren established Find My Silver Lining, a 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to helping struggling single moms - and parents in general - to find their silver lining in a crowded world.
 Continuing in the tradition of sound strategic solutions, ScaleUPCheckUP is Lauren’s newest initiative - an online risk assessment checkup tool for growing businesses in ScaleUP mode with the overriding mission of anticipating challenges before they happen. Designed in response to the challenges faced by so many entrepreneurs that simply do not understand the critical importance of proper professional guidance, and/or are afraid that the costs of protection are too high, ScaleUPCheckUP is poised to revolutionize the professional services industry and the way in which collaborative professional services are delivered.
 For more information go to https://www.scaleupcheckup.com
 Interview Transcript NPE Lauren Cohen
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. This is Hugh Ballou. My guest today has a fascinating background and a real passion for helping leaders in any kind of organization. We are going to be specific about scale-up check-up and how it is of value to those of us leading charitable organizations. We like to say a “for-purpose” organization. We have for-profit and for-purpose. If you would kindly tell us who is Lauren Cohen, a bit about your background and what led you to doing this particular initiative today. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange, Lauren.
 Lauren Cohen: Thank you. I will speak as loudly as I appropriately can without screaming. Hugh, it’s a pleasure to be on your show and to know you. I am excited about our opportunities together.
 I am originally from Canada. I moved here in 2001 and became a citizen in 2012. I was doing immigration law outside the corporate transactional work internationally for seven years. I kept seeing these recurring themes among businesses who were seeking to raise capital and for entrepreneurs and businesses who were looking to come into the country. The recurring theme was they were really focused on sales and marketing and getting coaching and moving up the ladder and making money, but they weren’t so focused on getting a strong foundation in place. The reality is that you can’t really scale your business or often even stay in business if you don’t scale up your business.
 In response to this recurring theme, I developed this online risk assessment tool which helps companies find their missing pieces, their gaps, and fill the gaps so they can scale up successfully. It is applicable to nonprofits because nonprofits need to scale as much as for-profits. At the end of the day, we’re all about making money. It’s about where the money goes that is the main difference between a for-profit and a nonprofit. As a social entrepreneur with a social consciousness, I am very focused on helping businesses be able to scale up successfully without hitting all these roadblocks along the way. Not to say that they won’t hit any roadblocks, but the roadblocks are going to be a lot more manageable, and they will be able to respond to them more effectively because they will have the right professional team and structure in place to be able to do that.
 Hugh: Russell, this is Russell Dennis who has jumped on the call. You can tell the difference between us because I have more hair. That’s it.
 Lauren: That’s the only difference I see.
 Hugh: Russell, you guys got snow out there in Colorado, didn’t you?
 Russell Dennis: A little bit. We got a little bit out here. It wasn’t a great deal, more in the mountains, about an inch or two here in Aurora.
 Hugh: Lauren is jealous. She is in the Fort Lauderdale area, and she didn’t get any snow.
 Lauren: I think I mentioned I’m originally from Canada. I grew up in Toronto, and I definitely know snow. I have a lot of good friends living in Colorado, including in the cannabis industry and outside of the cannabis industry.
 Hugh: Lauren, tell us a little bit about- You are trained as an attorney. What kind of attorney?
 Lauren: I am. I have been a corporate and immigration concierge attorney doing international law and handling international people through advisory services for longer than I care to acknowledge. I am licensed both in Canada and the U.S. I have been working with local entrepreneurs all over the world. You name it, I have been there. Europe, Israel, South America, and Canada, and the U.S. even. Mexico. It’s been an interesting ride. I have always felt a calling to the entrepreneurial side of my psyche. As much as I love being a lawyer and that training was great, I don’t love sitting behind a desk. I love being with people and helping people and making deals happen. The M&amp;A lawyers who are on Wall Street, I am that type of mindset, but with my own clients and having a much more hands-on approach to working with clients and making sure all their moving parts are moving in the right direction. At the end of the day, there are so many different things that entrepreneurs and small business owners have to deal with in nonprofit and for-profit. They just don’t know who to trust and who not to trust. I became this trusted advisor on an ongoing basis and decided to turn it into a larger-scale opportunity to help these businesses scale and grow successfully. It’s a nice system. I am happy to share all of the steps with you. It’s a nice system that helps you get your structure in place as a blueprint to success. It’s like a business plan.
 Hugh: Great. Do you have a volume control on your computer?
 Lauren: I do, and I have it all the way up.
 Hugh: That won’t help. I will bring you up when I do the edit of this. Let’s talk about the word “assessment.” Everybody uses it. I’m not sure any of us have a definitive paragraph or sentence that we can say to describe it. What is an assessment? Why is it important? why is it important especially for nonprofit leaders?
 Lauren: Our assessment is quite different than a traditional assessment because we are assessing various foundational issues. Do you have your corporate minutes in place? Have you set up your structure properly? Do you perhaps have trademarks? A lot of these nonprofits are sitting on potential trademark or licensing opportunities that they may be overlooking. Did you put a business plan in place? Do you have an exit strategy in place? For nonprofits, an exit strategy is much different because you have to have an exit strategy for an IRS requirement. It’s a matter of looking at all the various components of getting your structure in place and making sure your structure is sound so you can scale and grow.
 What happens, you will agree with me I’m sure, is I find all too often these small business owners, these accidental entrepreneurs, came up with this idea and suddenly grew. They didn’t pay any attention. It’s like building your dream home on a sinkhole. Suddenly, the sinkhole collapses, and your whole home collapses with it. I am here to make sure that doesn’t happen. I am there to help you get your business on a solid foundation and make sure you are not building on a sinkhole before you start spending all this time, money, and effort to scale your business. At the end of the day, you can only scale so far, and it will come crashing down if you don’t have that foundation. That could be assessed.
 We are assessing your foundational infrastructure. We have a customized score report that we provide, and we have an analysis of what that score means and how you can improve your score so your foundation is stronger. We also have a quiz that I’ll share with everybody on the call. It’s a freebie, a free online quiz that helps you to see initially how committed you are and how committed your business is. Our mindset might be 100%, but our business may not be ready to match our mindset.
 Russell: A lot of people mistake assessment and evaluation. They look at it as, It’s something I have to do to get somebody off my back. It could be the government or a donor. We are doing this because we have to. They talk about some aspects of their work when you ask them how they know you’re effective, “Oh, you can’t measure this.” How much of that do you see, and how do you address that when people come at you?
 Hugh:
 Lauren: If you can tell me the answer to that, I will have the idea that will get me on the front cover of Entrepreneur Magazine, which is where I’m going. It’s challenging. What I’m dealing with, and when I go on stage, I am making broccoli great again. It’s about that. when I am building the broccoli of your business, it’s not the ice cream, it’s not the fun stuff, it’s not the dollar dollar dollar, but at the end of the day, it really is. Even for a nonprofit, helping you get your structure in place will allow you to get more donor dollars, allow you to have a stronger valuation, allow you to potentially grow your business successfully, and this adds zero’s to your bank account. My new messaging is all about show me the money. If you have a strong foundation in place, you will be able to see more money, if it comes from donors, buyers, or both. Certainly a nonprofit can offer for-profit products and services and make money. It’s about what happens to that money that separates it from a for-profit business.
 Hugh: You have a nonprofit yourself?
 Lauren: I do.
 Hugh: What’s it called?
 Lauren: It’s called Find My Silver Lining. I established it in 2017.
 Hugh: You used this assessment yourself?
 Lauren: I did.
 Hugh: When you talk about this, there is a strong element of enthusiasm and passion. Was part of the inspiration seeing so many people get stuck in the mud or walk in the wall or fall off a cliff?
 Lauren: I want to say around February of last year, I have been a part of this coaching program. I offered to review some client agreements at no charge as a gift. In doing so, I realized that there were many business owners in that program that didn’t have their ducks in a row. Many had been in business for many years. I’m not saying that that’s not possible; it’s very possible. But once you hit a certain threshold, you’re not a mom and pop anymore, so you could be a target, not just for the IRS, but for litigation, potentially bankruptcy. People see opportunities. People want to challenge you. If you have a disgruntled employee, whatever the case is. As soon as you are starting to scale, your target becomes bigger. I kept seeing this. Oh my goodness, these amazing business owners are exposing themselves to risk. There has to be a way to address that risk and provide a solution. Ultimately what I am building is a home advisor for profits and nonprofit business owners to provide a resource of certified, vetted professionals like you guys who can provide a range of services: strategic services like legal, financial, accounting, insurance, business planning, exit strategies, all high-level B2B services that they are just finding on the Internet.
 Finding these resources on the Internet is like going in the Yellow Pages. We all used them. AAA, so they would get to the front of that section. It’s the same as Google Ads. The more you pay, the higher you rank. That is where they will get the most traction. It doesn’t mean they’re the best. Does it mean they have been vetted? No. Because they are at the highest ranking, you are going to call them first. I am trying to be the antithesis of that. We won’t talk about the companies out there who are especially providing legal services that you have no idea what you’re getting. I have a client now who applied for a patent in June. They didn’t even know what a patent was. There is no guidance. There is nobody holding their hand.
 What I have been doing for so long—I wrote a book called Finding Your Silver Lining in the Business Immigration Process. Everything is about finding the silver lining. Part of the reason is because to find a silver lining through adversity, my nonprofit is for single moms and single parents to help them find their way through the clouds. It’s all about that. In everything you do, if you have somebody to count on, a support system, entrepreneurs and small business owners are often running on empty. We are running on our own. We are isolated. We are trying to have an impact. It’s very hard to have an impact without the support and trusted advisors around you, so that is what I am building.
 Hugh: You’re an attorney. You look at things differently than an ordinary person. You look at it as part of a risk assessment.
 Lauren: That’s a good way of characterizing it, yes.
 Hugh: You’ve seen people get in trouble unnecessarily.
 Lauren: Absolutely.
 Hugh: You’re looking at the holes. We’re looking at the donut; you’re looking at the hole. You see the silver lining, but you realize there are some holes. You’re talking about a corporation, be it for-profit or nonprofit, and that corporation is a liability shield. Without the right documents in place, people can sue you and come for you personally if they can pierce that corporate veil.
 Lauren: Very big deal. People don’t realize that. They think if they have a company, they’re protected, and they’re not because people can come for you personally. That is another dimension of the problem.
 Hugh: The compliance piece- recording your contracts, putting them in the corporate record book. Any agreements or expenditures. It’s about liability protection. It’s also about, you mentioned empower donors. Russell, it would occur to me we don’t always protect ourselves from audits, but it would make us audit-worthy if you had your records filed. What are you hearing here, Russ?
 Russell: For me, the first step to building a high-performance nonprofit is having that solid foundation. There are a lot of things that go in there. If you don’t have the right legal protection or the right structure, moving forward, you have to have the right structure. For nonprofits, succession planning is critical, too.
 Lauren: Big deal.
 Russell: Moreso maybe than exit planning. Everybody plans to operate in perpetuity. That doesn’t always happen. But to have a succession plan so that you know how things are going to flow, no matter who is in the building at any given time, that structure sets a nonprofit up for success. Mitigating risks. I don’t think a lot of nonprofits think about risks, but risk is there. You have natural risks. You have legal risks just like any other entity. The thing that came to mind was a question because you deal with this so much on the structural side. We talk about it in terms of strategy, but we defer to legal experts, accounting experts, experts who have that critical knowledge in their field that will keep us in compliance and keep us operating correctly. When it comes to scaling, I know a lot of times growth comes out of nowhere. You catch fire. You go viral. All of a sudden, you have all of this money and donors and people approaching you. When it comes to being prepared in this, what would you say is the biggest gap that you see nonprofits have? What is the most common mistake they make when they are that point in time?
 Hugh:
 Lauren: It’s common for both nonprofits and for-profits although nonprofits are more guilty of this. Nonprofits think that because they have this designation, they are immune from challenge, or they are litigation-proof, or something along those lines. That just isn’t true. Nobody will come after us; we are a charitable organization; we have a 501(c)3 designation. Whatever the case is. Why would they come after us? We don’t have deep pockets. Really? A lot of them have deeper pockets because of the fact that they can distribute the income to their shareholders or the dividends or whatever. As a result, there is a lot of nonprofits out there that are extraordinarily successful. United Way, Red Cross, Jewish Federation. There is a huge amount of donors, very large businesses.
 There is a colleague of mine in this coaching program who runs a nonprofit. He came to the coaching program, and he was looking to raise $2 million. That was his goal for the year. He ended up raising $20 million because he created this licensing program and sold it to other nonprofits, which is amazing. That is where there is an opportunity. It’s not just about assessing legal risk or legal vulnerability. It’s also about the opportunity that this presents to you. I was talking about trademarks, and a lot of nonprofits have access to trademarks but don’t know about them. In my report, I talk not only about risk, but also about hidden fortune. There is a lot of possible fortunes that these businessowners or executive directors might be sitting on that they could be making a great deal of money giving back to the community and making an even broader impact. I think that is where that missing link is. They don’t think about a nonprofit as a business. They think about it as a charity.
 A lot of lawyers are guilty of this, too. Lawyers and service providers. Lawyers run their business as fee for service. I have developed this professional resource success plan, which outlines all the professionals that are needed to fill all the gaps in your armor and to potentially help you to scale and grow. We talk about mindset and coaching and opportunity and where do you want to go and your exit or your business succession plan.
 You’re right. Every business needs a succession plan, whether it’s an exit or a legacy. No matter what, in order to be successful, in order for a for-profit business to be successful at due diligence or a nonprofit to be successful in their succession planning, they need that structure in place. they are just not paying attention it. They are coasting along, thinking about how much donor money they can get this year, and are they meeting your budget, and are their donors happy. This is all great stuff. But think about the potential of greater impact if you are able to get those pieces in place and make that difference. It’s like night and day.
 For both of you, once we have the opportunity to work through this with some of your client base, you can see how much of a difference it makes. They are coming out exposed, and then they are going back in and getting their hair done and makeup. Now they are ready to show themselves to the public. You are not getting too much hair done over there, Russell. It is a completely different mindset.
 I hear a lot of entrepreneurs work in their pajamas. I can barely work sweatpants even if I am working from home because that is not the mindset I want. I want to be in work mode no matter where I am. It’s important. I think it’s the same for for-profit business owners who are running a sole proprietor. They are not looking at it as a business; they are looking at it as a hobby. Until you make that transition, and look at it as a business, you’re going to stay at a certain plateau. You may scale; you may make money. But at a certain point, you’re eventually going to collapse.
 Russell: As you talk about that, one of the things that comes to mind when you talk about opportunities and other things businesses have access to, a business revenue comes to mind. Opportunities for mission-based revenue. You also have unrelated business income, as far as, it’s money that’s possibly left on the table because people don’t think about bringing a valuable service. When it comes to revenue generation and protecting your intellectual property is important, it should separately be maintained and protected. Everything should be walled off. There is another discussion. When it comes to revenue, whether it’s business-related or unrelated, when you see organizations that have one or both, what are some of the biggest pitfalls you see them fall into?
 Lauren: One of the things is that there is a limitation, but you still have to stay true. If you are a nonprofit and are providing for-profit services and products, you still have to stay true to your mission. If you start making millions of dollars and use it as a sham, so you can pass through income at a tax-free rate, or through a nonprofit to get the benefits of that, or raise money to do advertising, that is where the problems happen. The separation needs to be clean. If you start paying an executive director, suddenly they get a 100% salary increase, where is the money coming from? Where is the money going to? Are you circumventing the rule of putting the money back into the directors’ pockets? That is where the problems happen.
 There is also an issue of fiscal sponsorship, as I’m sure you’re familiar with, and renting your nonprofit to another entity. There are ways to do it that are legal and kosher, as long as you follow the rules. But if you are just using your nonprofit as a sham or as a front for what you’re really trying to accomplish or for your for-profit business, you will lose your designation. It’s as simple as that.
 Russell: It’s important to put your structure. You have to have a separate structure, especially for unrelated, but also business income, and mission-based revenue. You have to make sure the vast majority of those funds are going into your programs and operation of your nonprofit to keep from creating a tax event. Unrelated business income, you file separate returns. You pay taxes on that the way you do with others.
 What happens is people can get distracted. People who approach a nonprofit can get confused. Do you find that nonprofits that are successful with generating large amounts of mission-based revenue, or maybe a substantial amount, a good percentage of the revenue they generate, do you find that they have difficulty getting donors because they see, “Well, they are making plenty of money. I don’t need to write them a check.”?
 Lauren: It’s definitely a challenge. However, it depends on your mission and how impactful it is and how broad it is. I think that what happens with some nonprofits, and this is what should happen, is as they become more successful financially, their mission expands beyond their original intended scope, demographically or in terms of the people they are helping. There is room for that within the IRS code. As long as that happens, I don’t see it as a problem. But as soon as that is not happening, or once there is a compromise in that, it does create challenges.
 Russell: The key is to structure and make sure everything is compartmentalized and appropriately reported. It’s about the systems you have in place. In order to scale, you have to have really good strong systems. What are the ones that you think are essential for them to have first? If you had to set systems up in a specific sequence for nonprofits, what would that be?
 Lauren: Operating systems are critical for any business; I don’t care what business you are. You have to have an operating system for everything that happens from the time you answer the phone to the time you deliver the service until after that, all the way through, for the life of that relationship. You have to have a system in place for every single touchpoint with the prospective donor, with the donor, with following up with the donor, with if the donor moves. You have to have operating systems for all of your internal processes. They should be externally driven, one for your outbound touchpoints and one for your inbound stuff. How do your people work with each other? Who is responsible for your bank account? How many people are signing checks? What is the check and balance there? How does that all work? Every single thing should be documented.
 When I started this, I didn’t realize how few businesses have systems. The only systems they have are the ones they pulled offline. That is the exception, not the rule. This is true of legal documents too because everyone goes online and pulls documents from there. It’s like filling out the 1023, the IRS 501(c)3 application. Oh, this is easy. I can do this. It’s just some forms. If that were true, there wouldn’t be all these businesses doing that. It’s very complicated. Even the 1023 form should not be done on your own. You need to make sure you are following the rules, and whatever you put in there is going to be systematized within your organization. What happens if the executive director quits someday? I’m sure this has happened to your clients. Uh oh, now what?
 One of my messages is about dealing with the Uh oh, now what? You don’t want to wake up in the morning and say, What is going to happen today? I cannot imagine going to work today. Steve is doing this, and Joe is doing that, and Nina is doing this. Nobody is talking to anybody. We don’t have group meetings. Things are falling apart. The donors are frustrated. They don’t know what is going on. They are going to move their money elsewhere because they don’t know if they are getting their donation receipt. It’s a mess. One thing leads to another leads to another. I wish it was as true for the good things. The messy things have a more quick and efficient domino effect.
 Russell: This is true. We call them internal controls, what you talk about, for the IRS. How do you control who handles what? What is your record-keeping like? That gives you the scope of any audit you do. The scope is based on several things. One is the corporate records. I know you mentioned that. I’d like to ask you to speak to that. As an auditor, when I walked into a corporation, I wanted the internal control polices. The corporate minute book was the first thing I reviewed.
 Lauren: Was this on the for-profit side?
 Russell: The for-profit side, yes.
 Lauren: It’s similar. When you submit for a nonprofit designation, you submit all these bylaws, including a conflict bylaw. I can’t remember the title.
 Russell: Conflict of interest policy.
 Lauren: My brain went dead. This is so big in the nonprofit world. It’s almost like insider trading in the for-profit world. If you have created a bylaw and implemented it and approved it and ratified it, and it’s part of your corporate record-book, and you don’t adhere to it, it’s as good as throwing it against the wall to see if it sticks. This can put you in more harm than not having it in the first place. You’re purposefully going around what you implemented. That’s not cool. Your minute book depends on your state because some minute books, Delaware is strict on their minute book requirements and updates. Florida is less strict. The nonprofit requirements are different. But you need to follow your policies. Your bylaw policy said, We are going to have a board of directors meeting once a quarter. You need to have it and put it in the minute book once a quarter.
 I will tell you something that you probably don’t know, and I shouldn’t say it out loud. If there are businesses out there that want help with their minute books, we can fix them after the fact as long as it’s before the auditor comes in. You just have to get everything up to date and in place. That’s important. You can’t fudge it, but it’s okay to do it after the minute you’re supposed to do it as long as you get it done. Let’s get together. Call us, and we can get it done with you so that we can make sure you won’t have a problem if the IRS or any other entity shows up at your door. Today, they’re not coming so fast because they’re still unfortunately on shutdown.
 Russell: The greater likelihood over the few years is a state regulator will walk in your office because of the reduction, and the money has been moved out of regulation. That’s another discussion. It’s true with the 1023. There are certain things you represent that you’re going to do. What the auditors do is they look at your books and bylaws: Are you doing what you say you’re going to do? I know there are laws out there. But we go by what you say that you are going to do. That is a huge portion of what an auditor would look at as to determine if you are on track, if you are in compliance. Are you doing what you say you’re going to do? These are important to put on the table. With good systems in place, and it takes a little time to do this, the operation smooths out. Am I on track with that?
 Lauren: Hopefully. It’s just like anything. You could have paper in a book or online. Then it’s a matter of implementing and enforcing. Unfortunately, we’re all guilty of creating a policy where the consequences are not consistent. Like my child. They’re not consistent, so his behavior is not good from time to time. It’s my fault because I am not consistent in enforcing a consequence. Same with a minute book. It’s the same concept. A lot of people, just like setting up a nonprofit and using it as a sham, put thing into place to cover their you-know-whats. That’s it. It sits on the shelf. They do it to be in compliance. If they are not honoring it and adhering to it, whatever operating system or control you have, it won’t matter. You can’t suddenly say, “I can’t have a policy for it.” If you haven’t enforced it in the past three years, and the person has been doing whatever they have been doing, or their brother has been sending them money, I am far-fetched here. The reality is there is a lot of this that goes on. As more for-profit businesses set up nonprofit entities, this is an ongoing problem. I think it’s all a matter of training. If your people are not trained properly on what your policies mean, it’s only a piece of paper. You need to have the policy, create the manual, create the operating policies, create the training, train your people, get them to buy in, have them involved, and have consequences for noncompliance. It’s a range of things that need to happen. Have a third party designated to oversee that process so it doesn’t fall on the executive director.
 Hugh: Absolutely. That’s why you have board members and advisors. They really have fiduciary and governance oversight.
 Let’s go back to this assessment. It sounds painful and expensive. What’s involved? If I wanted to go through the process and take this assessment, what’s involved in doing it? What do I get from that? Does it help me figure out how to do all this? It sounds scary right now.
 Lauren: We don’t let it be scary. I am the non-scary lawyer. I have a free quiz. It’s not specifically oriented to the nonprofit world yet; we are developing one now. I’ll be happy to share it with your listeners. It’s ScaleUpCheckUpQuiz.online. You can take that quiz; it’s about 2 minutes. We can set up a quick call to discuss your needs.
 The assessment is $47. I can share a $20 coupon code that makes it $27. It’s a customized score that highlights your issues and lets you know how at risk you are. It gives you access to my calendar for a quick call.
 The assessment and a strategy session is only $197. That gives you time to go through the assessment results and talk about how they could be improved. How can you improve your score so your bottom in is better?
 Our big deliverable item. The regular price is $997. However, Hugh, you, I, and Russell can talk about a special delivery product for the nonprofit world and can get a coupon code. I don’t want to charge that much for people in the nonprofit world. It’s a blueprint that shows you everything you need to scale up your business successfully. Then we create a strategy based on your budget and priorities. If your priority is to get a business plan in place because you want to build a facility, that’s what we will focus on first. That will come out of this analysis and deep dive we do for you.
 Hugh: That sounds interesting. The quiz, anybody can take that. We try to convince those that are running a nonprofit, which is a bad word, it’s a misnomer. Those who are in a tax-exempt enterprise, a for-purpose organization, they are really, there is a high level, it’s critical that we establish sound business principles. If you have an organization, you should run it responsibly. It’s good stewardship, if nothing else.
 The quiz, we could evaluate it as a tax-exempt business. It’s ScaleUpCheckUpQuiz-
 Lauren: ScaleUpCheckUpQuiz.online.
 Hugh: That gives them the free quiz. You fill something, and you have a chance to interpret it. Then the assessment could be available through SynerVision Leadership Foundation for people who want to find out how much trouble they are in. Then there is a prescriptive; this is what you do about it.
 Lauren: Not exactly. The prescriptive is more detailed in the success plan. The assessment, if they do it with the strategy session, we will give them some ideas and tips on how to improve the score. It’s the success plan that will give you a blueprint of everything you should do to make your structure more sound so you can accomplish your goals.
 Hugh: Your basic website is ScaleUpCheckUp.com. There is everything about the products there. There is a toll-free number to contact you. You have this purple branding that is quite elegant.
 Lauren: I’ve always been into purple. My existing brand is purple. For as long as I’ve had a brand, I’ve had purple.
 Hugh: That’s on your site. People can go to ScaleUpCheckUp.com and can learn about you.
 What have we not asked you that people need to know about this whole line of risk mitigation?
 Lauren: The real question is: So what if I don’t do it? So what if I don’t get my stuff in place? What happens? How do I get caught? What’s the risk?
 There is a huge risk. As Russell knows, having been an auditor, you risk not only for the nonprofit organization losing your designation, piercing the corporate veil, which means they go beyond the business and to you personally. You can lose your own personal assets. You put your family at risk. These are serious issues that people just don’t want to deal with. They want to deal with numbers and money. Numbers and money, this will get you more numbers and money than any sale is going to ever get you. Your sale will be stopped dead in its tracks. All that time and effort on that sale will be wasted because you haven’t done what you needed to do. When you want to create a strategic partnership or synergy, for example, you and I, with SynerVision, if we have a joint venture or strategic partnership, we both want to make sure we both did certain due diligence, with the compliance checks. We have our business in place. Our licenses are kosher. Everything is right and in place. Otherwise, I don’t want to do business with you, and you don’t want to do business with me. They could have a multi-million-dollar prospect on the table.
 I had a client I was working with for a short time. They were about to enter into this multi-million-dollar deal, a very big name. Big. Big. One of the biggest. I’m trying to see Russell’s face. I think he’s smiling. I’m willing, they didn’t have their minute book records in place. For three years, they didn’t have a single document. Because this company is so big and successful, they wanted to see that all their I’s were dotted and T’s were crossed. Do you know this company would not pay me to get their records updated? It was $5,000 or something like that. It was nothing. They didn’t want to deal with it. They lost the deal. Multi-million-dollars. It was too late because they could have had it done, and they would have been at the table. This is what happens. You lose your seat at the table. You will have someone come after you and sue you, whether it’s a disgruntled employee or the IRS. You won’t have access to potential huge opportunities with your intellectual property. You are putting yourself at risk every which way and losing out on opportunities to make a fortune.
 So let’s have a conversation and see how we can help you scale your business successfully and not violate your 501(c)3 designation or your company bylaws. I think there is a lot of for-profit corporations that are purposeful. It’s all confusing, right? I try to have a purpose and make an impact, even though I have a for-profit company. There are so many ways we can create opportunity for you as a company and business owner to scale successfully. It’s silly to throw that opportunity away because of fear of the unknown.
 Hugh: Yes, it is. This is a huge inventory of important things that people don’t know to ask about. Russell, before we do our closing sequence, do you have another issue we need to bring before this lady?
 Russell: I was thinking about a point you made earlier that is worth emphasizing again. There are a lot of tools out there. People find templates and guides to build contracts and agreements with. Nothing wrong with them. The problem is people don’t have them reviewed by someone who has the knowledge necessary to make sure everything is in there to protect yourself. Just grabbing something.
 The other thing people don’t do is read the fine print in their own contract. They create something that they are going to adhere to. If they look at it with the eyes of, This will protect us from other people, they may not be protecting themselves from themselves by clarifying what they are agreeing to do.
 How common is it that you see people with these boilerplate templates? How can they get them reviewed? They definitely need to do that. Is it something that will break the bank? I think that’s what stops a lot of people from doing that.
 Lauren: Thank you for asking that question. One signature speech of mine is “7 Secret Scale-Up Success Strategies.” One of the secrets is: Don’t download a boilerplate template without getting it reviewed. There are multiple reasons to have it reviewed, some of which you addressed. Also, they could name the wrong parties. They could pull the wrong template. It could be perfect, but for another situation. They may think they need X, and they may need Y. It could be covered with legalese that no one understands, including lawyers. I wrote an agreement last week for a nonprofit for a lawyer. I was working with this lawyer. I want it to be two pages. This was a lawyer who was telling another lawyer that this agreement should be two pages. I can make it four. I’m laughing. I saw him last night and was like, “Two pages?” We are trying to condense things and make them concise because you get lost in it.
 I can’t give you a flat fee, but we do have packages that include a range of services, including reviewing up to five agreements of up to 10 pages each. We have them on monthly packages, semi-annual packages, and annual packages. You need to grab one of those. Not go to those online services, but have someone you can trust and contact and text, a live person, who can help you look at those agreements and see what’s missing or not. What’s missing is almost as bad or often worse than what’s not missing. You won’t catch everything. No lawyer will catch everything because I don’t know exactly what every single business owner wants to accomplish. But if you don’t have it reviewed, you may as well jump in the ocean without a life preserver.
 Hugh: This is helpful information, Lauren. Thank you.
 *Sponsor message from SynerVision Leadership Foundation*
 What I’m taking away from Lauren’s interview today is there are things about enterprises that we don’t even know we’re supposed to know.
 Lauren, what thought do you want to leave people with?  
 Lauren: Think about your nonprofit or for-purpose business as a business. Take it seriously. It deserves your attention. It deserves the attention of professionals. Don’t be everything to your organization. Bring in the professionals that you can trust to accomplish the goals you need. I am available to speak with any of you about how to scale up your nonprofit. I look forward to working with you, Hugh and Russell, and collaborating with you further. Don’t take the risk of losing all that you’ve built because you’re afraid to make a phone call or send an email.
 Russell: This has been an enlightening and uplifting conversation. Here at SynerVision Leadership, we have all sorts of people like Lauren that are here. Come join the community and have a chance to plug into conversations with people so you are not doing things by yourself. We are the source for all things nonprofit. If we don’t have the answers, we know people like Lauren who do.
  
  
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      <pubDate>Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/77533e8c-b329-11eb-9f0f-db807e693666/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Value of Assessments</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>What are the Secrets to Scaling Your Nonprofit with Lauren Cohen (archive)
 Global entrepreneur and #1 bestselling author Lauren A. Cohenis an attorney licensed in both the U.S. and Canada. Lauren is an expert concierge immigration and business legal advisor boasting a stellar track record of success. Lauren has first-hand knowledge of the visa process, having herself immigrated from Canada in 2001, and later becoming an American citizen in 2012.
 In 2008, Lauren started e-Council Inc. an internationally-acclaimed company focused on providing concierge strategic full-service solutions for businesses seeking capital and foreign entrepreneurs seeking access to the U.S. market. In 2017, Lauren established Find My Silver Lining, a 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to helping struggling single moms - and parents in general - to find their silver lining in a crowded world.
 Continuing in the tradition of sound strategic solutions, ScaleUPCheckUP is Lauren’s newest initiative - an online risk assessment checkup tool for growing businesses in ScaleUP mode with the overriding mission of anticipating challenges before they happen. Designed in response to the challenges faced by so many entrepreneurs that simply do not understand the critical importance of proper professional guidance, and/or are afraid that the costs of protection are too high, ScaleUPCheckUP is poised to revolutionize the professional services industry and the way in which collaborative professional services are delivered.
 For more information go to https://www.scaleupcheckup.com
 Interview Transcript NPE Lauren Cohen
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. This is Hugh Ballou. My guest today has a fascinating background and a real passion for helping leaders in any kind of organization. We are going to be specific about scale-up check-up and how it is of value to those of us leading charitable organizations. We like to say a “for-purpose” organization. We have for-profit and for-purpose. If you would kindly tell us who is Lauren Cohen, a bit about your background and what led you to doing this particular initiative today. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange, Lauren.
 Lauren Cohen: Thank you. I will speak as loudly as I appropriately can without screaming. Hugh, it’s a pleasure to be on your show and to know you. I am excited about our opportunities together.
 I am originally from Canada. I moved here in 2001 and became a citizen in 2012. I was doing immigration law outside the corporate transactional work internationally for seven years. I kept seeing these recurring themes among businesses who were seeking to raise capital and for entrepreneurs and businesses who were looking to come into the country. The recurring theme was they were really focused on sales and marketing and getting coaching and moving up the ladder and making money, but they weren’t so focused on getting a strong foundation in place. The reality is that you can’t really scale your business or often even stay in business if you don’t scale up your business.
 In response to this recurring theme, I developed this online risk assessment tool which helps companies find their missing pieces, their gaps, and fill the gaps so they can scale up successfully. It is applicable to nonprofits because nonprofits need to scale as much as for-profits. At the end of the day, we’re all about making money. It’s about where the money goes that is the main difference between a for-profit and a nonprofit. As a social entrepreneur with a social consciousness, I am very focused on helping businesses be able to scale up successfully without hitting all these roadblocks along the way. Not to say that they won’t hit any roadblocks, but the roadblocks are going to be a lot more manageable, and they will be able to respond to them more effectively because they will have the right professional team and structure in place to be able to do that.
 Hugh: Russell, this is Russell Dennis who has jumped on the call. You can tell the difference between us because I have more hair. That’s it.
 Lauren: That’s the only difference I see.
 Hugh: Russell, you guys got snow out there in Colorado, didn’t you?
 Russell Dennis: A little bit. We got a little bit out here. It wasn’t a great deal, more in the mountains, about an inch or two here in Aurora.
 Hugh: Lauren is jealous. She is in the Fort Lauderdale area, and she didn’t get any snow.
 Lauren: I think I mentioned I’m originally from Canada. I grew up in Toronto, and I definitely know snow. I have a lot of good friends living in Colorado, including in the cannabis industry and outside of the cannabis industry.
 Hugh: Lauren, tell us a little bit about- You are trained as an attorney. What kind of attorney?
 Lauren: I am. I have been a corporate and immigration concierge attorney doing international law and handling international people through advisory services for longer than I care to acknowledge. I am licensed both in Canada and the U.S. I have been working with local entrepreneurs all over the world. You name it, I have been there. Europe, Israel, South America, and Canada, and the U.S. even. Mexico. It’s been an interesting ride. I have always felt a calling to the entrepreneurial side of my psyche. As much as I love being a lawyer and that training was great, I don’t love sitting behind a desk. I love being with people and helping people and making deals happen. The M&amp;A lawyers who are on Wall Street, I am that type of mindset, but with my own clients and having a much more hands-on approach to working with clients and making sure all their moving parts are moving in the right direction. At the end of the day, there are so many different things that entrepreneurs and small business owners have to deal with in nonprofit and for-profit. They just don’t know who to trust and who not to trust. I became this trusted advisor on an ongoing basis and decided to turn it into a larger-scale opportunity to help these businesses scale and grow successfully. It’s a nice system. I am happy to share all of the steps with you. It’s a nice system that helps you get your structure in place as a blueprint to success. It’s like a business plan.
 Hugh: Great. Do you have a volume control on your computer?
 Lauren: I do, and I have it all the way up.
 Hugh: That won’t help. I will bring you up when I do the edit of this. Let’s talk about the word “assessment.” Everybody uses it. I’m not sure any of us have a definitive paragraph or sentence that we can say to describe it. What is an assessment? Why is it important? why is it important especially for nonprofit leaders?
 Lauren: Our assessment is quite different than a traditional assessment because we are assessing various foundational issues. Do you have your corporate minutes in place? Have you set up your structure properly? Do you perhaps have trademarks? A lot of these nonprofits are sitting on potential trademark or licensing opportunities that they may be overlooking. Did you put a business plan in place? Do you have an exit strategy in place? For nonprofits, an exit strategy is much different because you have to have an exit strategy for an IRS requirement. It’s a matter of looking at all the various components of getting your structure in place and making sure your structure is sound so you can scale and grow.
 What happens, you will agree with me I’m sure, is I find all too often these small business owners, these accidental entrepreneurs, came up with this idea and suddenly grew. They didn’t pay any attention. It’s like building your dream home on a sinkhole. Suddenly, the sinkhole collapses, and your whole home collapses with it. I am here to make sure that doesn’t happen. I am there to help you get your business on a solid foundation and make sure you are not building on a sinkhole before you start spending all this time, money, and effort to scale your business. At the end of the day, you can only scale so far, and it will come crashing down if you don’t have that foundation. That could be assessed.
 We are assessing your foundational infrastructure. We have a customized score report that we provide, and we have an analysis of what that score means and how you can improve your score so your foundation is stronger. We also have a quiz that I’ll share with everybody on the call. It’s a freebie, a free online quiz that helps you to see initially how committed you are and how committed your business is. Our mindset might be 100%, but our business may not be ready to match our mindset.
 Russell: A lot of people mistake assessment and evaluation. They look at it as, It’s something I have to do to get somebody off my back. It could be the government or a donor. We are doing this because we have to. They talk about some aspects of their work when you ask them how they know you’re effective, “Oh, you can’t measure this.” How much of that do you see, and how do you address that when people come at you?
 Hugh:
 Lauren: If you can tell me the answer to that, I will have the idea that will get me on the front cover of Entrepreneur Magazine, which is where I’m going. It’s challenging. What I’m dealing with, and when I go on stage, I am making broccoli great again. It’s about that. when I am building the broccoli of your business, it’s not the ice cream, it’s not the fun stuff, it’s not the dollar dollar dollar, but at the end of the day, it really is. Even for a nonprofit, helping you get your structure in place will allow you to get more donor dollars, allow you to have a stronger valuation, allow you to potentially grow your business successfully, and this adds zero’s to your bank account. My new messaging is all about show me the money. If you have a strong foundation in place, you will be able to see more money, if it comes from donors, buyers, or both. Certainly a nonprofit can offer for-profit products and services and make money. It’s about what happens to that money that separates it from a for-profit business.
 Hugh: You have a nonprofit yourself?
 Lauren: I do.
 Hugh: What’s it called?
 Lauren: It’s called Find My Silver Lining. I established it in 2017.
 Hugh: You used this assessment yourself?
 Lauren: I did.
 Hugh: When you talk about this, there is a strong element of enthusiasm and passion. Was part of the inspiration seeing so many people get stuck in the mud or walk in the wall or fall off a cliff?
 Lauren: I want to say around February of last year, I have been a part of this coaching program. I offered to review some client agreements at no charge as a gift. In doing so, I realized that there were many business owners in that program that didn’t have their ducks in a row. Many had been in business for many years. I’m not saying that that’s not possible; it’s very possible. But once you hit a certain threshold, you’re not a mom and pop anymore, so you could be a target, not just for the IRS, but for litigation, potentially bankruptcy. People see opportunities. People want to challenge you. If you have a disgruntled employee, whatever the case is. As soon as you are starting to scale, your target becomes bigger. I kept seeing this. Oh my goodness, these amazing business owners are exposing themselves to risk. There has to be a way to address that risk and provide a solution. Ultimately what I am building is a home advisor for profits and nonprofit business owners to provide a resource of certified, vetted professionals like you guys who can provide a range of services: strategic services like legal, financial, accounting, insurance, business planning, exit strategies, all high-level B2B services that they are just finding on the Internet.
 Finding these resources on the Internet is like going in the Yellow Pages. We all used them. AAA, so they would get to the front of that section. It’s the same as Google Ads. The more you pay, the higher you rank. That is where they will get the most traction. It doesn’t mean they’re the best. Does it mean they have been vetted? No. Because they are at the highest ranking, you are going to call them first. I am trying to be the antithesis of that. We won’t talk about the companies out there who are especially providing legal services that you have no idea what you’re getting. I have a client now who applied for a patent in June. They didn’t even know what a patent was. There is no guidance. There is nobody holding their hand.
 What I have been doing for so long—I wrote a book called Finding Your Silver Lining in the Business Immigration Process. Everything is about finding the silver lining. Part of the reason is because to find a silver lining through adversity, my nonprofit is for single moms and single parents to help them find their way through the clouds. It’s all about that. In everything you do, if you have somebody to count on, a support system, entrepreneurs and small business owners are often running on empty. We are running on our own. We are isolated. We are trying to have an impact. It’s very hard to have an impact without the support and trusted advisors around you, so that is what I am building.
 Hugh: You’re an attorney. You look at things differently than an ordinary person. You look at it as part of a risk assessment.
 Lauren: That’s a good way of characterizing it, yes.
 Hugh: You’ve seen people get in trouble unnecessarily.
 Lauren: Absolutely.
 Hugh: You’re looking at the holes. We’re looking at the donut; you’re looking at the hole. You see the silver lining, but you realize there are some holes. You’re talking about a corporation, be it for-profit or nonprofit, and that corporation is a liability shield. Without the right documents in place, people can sue you and come for you personally if they can pierce that corporate veil.
 Lauren: Very big deal. People don’t realize that. They think if they have a company, they’re protected, and they’re not because people can come for you personally. That is another dimension of the problem.
 Hugh: The compliance piece- recording your contracts, putting them in the corporate record book. Any agreements or expenditures. It’s about liability protection. It’s also about, you mentioned empower donors. Russell, it would occur to me we don’t always protect ourselves from audits, but it would make us audit-worthy if you had your records filed. What are you hearing here, Russ?
 Russell: For me, the first step to building a high-performance nonprofit is having that solid foundation. There are a lot of things that go in there. If you don’t have the right legal protection or the right structure, moving forward, you have to have the right structure. For nonprofits, succession planning is critical, too.
 Lauren: Big deal.
 Russell: Moreso maybe than exit planning. Everybody plans to operate in perpetuity. That doesn’t always happen. But to have a succession plan so that you know how things are going to flow, no matter who is in the building at any given time, that structure sets a nonprofit up for success. Mitigating risks. I don’t think a lot of nonprofits think about risks, but risk is there. You have natural risks. You have legal risks just like any other entity. The thing that came to mind was a question because you deal with this so much on the structural side. We talk about it in terms of strategy, but we defer to legal experts, accounting experts, experts who have that critical knowledge in their field that will keep us in compliance and keep us operating correctly. When it comes to scaling, I know a lot of times growth comes out of nowhere. You catch fire. You go viral. All of a sudden, you have all of this money and donors and people approaching you. When it comes to being prepared in this, what would you say is the biggest gap that you see nonprofits have? What is the most common mistake they make when they are that point in time?
 Hugh:
 Lauren: It’s common for both nonprofits and for-profits although nonprofits are more guilty of this. Nonprofits think that because they have this designation, they are immune from challenge, or they are litigation-proof, or something along those lines. That just isn’t true. Nobody will come after us; we are a charitable organization; we have a 501(c)3 designation. Whatever the case is. Why would they come after us? We don’t have deep pockets. Really? A lot of them have deeper pockets because of the fact that they can distribute the income to their shareholders or the dividends or whatever. As a result, there is a lot of nonprofits out there that are extraordinarily successful. United Way, Red Cross, Jewish Federation. There is a huge amount of donors, very large businesses.
 There is a colleague of mine in this coaching program who runs a nonprofit. He came to the coaching program, and he was looking to raise $2 million. That was his goal for the year. He ended up raising $20 million because he created this licensing program and sold it to other nonprofits, which is amazing. That is where there is an opportunity. It’s not just about assessing legal risk or legal vulnerability. It’s also about the opportunity that this presents to you. I was talking about trademarks, and a lot of nonprofits have access to trademarks but don’t know about them. In my report, I talk not only about risk, but also about hidden fortune. There is a lot of possible fortunes that these businessowners or executive directors might be sitting on that they could be making a great deal of money giving back to the community and making an even broader impact. I think that is where that missing link is. They don’t think about a nonprofit as a business. They think about it as a charity.
 A lot of lawyers are guilty of this, too. Lawyers and service providers. Lawyers run their business as fee for service. I have developed this professional resource success plan, which outlines all the professionals that are needed to fill all the gaps in your armor and to potentially help you to scale and grow. We talk about mindset and coaching and opportunity and where do you want to go and your exit or your business succession plan.
 You’re right. Every business needs a succession plan, whether it’s an exit or a legacy. No matter what, in order to be successful, in order for a for-profit business to be successful at due diligence or a nonprofit to be successful in their succession planning, they need that structure in place. they are just not paying attention it. They are coasting along, thinking about how much donor money they can get this year, and are they meeting your budget, and are their donors happy. This is all great stuff. But think about the potential of greater impact if you are able to get those pieces in place and make that difference. It’s like night and day.
 For both of you, once we have the opportunity to work through this with some of your client base, you can see how much of a difference it makes. They are coming out exposed, and then they are going back in and getting their hair done and makeup. Now they are ready to show themselves to the public. You are not getting too much hair done over there, Russell. It is a completely different mindset.
 I hear a lot of entrepreneurs work in their pajamas. I can barely work sweatpants even if I am working from home because that is not the mindset I want. I want to be in work mode no matter where I am. It’s important. I think it’s the same for for-profit business owners who are running a sole proprietor. They are not looking at it as a business; they are looking at it as a hobby. Until you make that transition, and look at it as a business, you’re going to stay at a certain plateau. You may scale; you may make money. But at a certain point, you’re eventually going to collapse.
 Russell: As you talk about that, one of the things that comes to mind when you talk about opportunities and other things businesses have access to, a business revenue comes to mind. Opportunities for mission-based revenue. You also have unrelated business income, as far as, it’s money that’s possibly left on the table because people don’t think about bringing a valuable service. When it comes to revenue generation and protecting your intellectual property is important, it should separately be maintained and protected. Everything should be walled off. There is another discussion. When it comes to revenue, whether it’s business-related or unrelated, when you see organizations that have one or both, what are some of the biggest pitfalls you see them fall into?
 Lauren: One of the things is that there is a limitation, but you still have to stay true. If you are a nonprofit and are providing for-profit services and products, you still have to stay true to your mission. If you start making millions of dollars and use it as a sham, so you can pass through income at a tax-free rate, or through a nonprofit to get the benefits of that, or raise money to do advertising, that is where the problems happen. The separation needs to be clean. If you start paying an executive director, suddenly they get a 100% salary increase, where is the money coming from? Where is the money going to? Are you circumventing the rule of putting the money back into the directors’ pockets? That is where the problems happen.
 There is also an issue of fiscal sponsorship, as I’m sure you’re familiar with, and renting your nonprofit to another entity. There are ways to do it that are legal and kosher, as long as you follow the rules. But if you are just using your nonprofit as a sham or as a front for what you’re really trying to accomplish or for your for-profit business, you will lose your designation. It’s as simple as that.
 Russell: It’s important to put your structure. You have to have a separate structure, especially for unrelated, but also business income, and mission-based revenue. You have to make sure the vast majority of those funds are going into your programs and operation of your nonprofit to keep from creating a tax event. Unrelated business income, you file separate returns. You pay taxes on that the way you do with others.
 What happens is people can get distracted. People who approach a nonprofit can get confused. Do you find that nonprofits that are successful with generating large amounts of mission-based revenue, or maybe a substantial amount, a good percentage of the revenue they generate, do you find that they have difficulty getting donors because they see, “Well, they are making plenty of money. I don’t need to write them a check.”?
 Lauren: It’s definitely a challenge. However, it depends on your mission and how impactful it is and how broad it is. I think that what happens with some nonprofits, and this is what should happen, is as they become more successful financially, their mission expands beyond their original intended scope, demographically or in terms of the people they are helping. There is room for that within the IRS code. As long as that happens, I don’t see it as a problem. But as soon as that is not happening, or once there is a compromise in that, it does create challenges.
 Russell: The key is to structure and make sure everything is compartmentalized and appropriately reported. It’s about the systems you have in place. In order to scale, you have to have really good strong systems. What are the ones that you think are essential for them to have first? If you had to set systems up in a specific sequence for nonprofits, what would that be?
 Lauren: Operating systems are critical for any business; I don’t care what business you are. You have to have an operating system for everything that happens from the time you answer the phone to the time you deliver the service until after that, all the way through, for the life of that relationship. You have to have a system in place for every single touchpoint with the prospective donor, with the donor, with following up with the donor, with if the donor moves. You have to have operating systems for all of your internal processes. They should be externally driven, one for your outbound touchpoints and one for your inbound stuff. How do your people work with each other? Who is responsible for your bank account? How many people are signing checks? What is the check and balance there? How does that all work? Every single thing should be documented.
 When I started this, I didn’t realize how few businesses have systems. The only systems they have are the ones they pulled offline. That is the exception, not the rule. This is true of legal documents too because everyone goes online and pulls documents from there. It’s like filling out the 1023, the IRS 501(c)3 application. Oh, this is easy. I can do this. It’s just some forms. If that were true, there wouldn’t be all these businesses doing that. It’s very complicated. Even the 1023 form should not be done on your own. You need to make sure you are following the rules, and whatever you put in there is going to be systematized within your organization. What happens if the executive director quits someday? I’m sure this has happened to your clients. Uh oh, now what?
 One of my messages is about dealing with the Uh oh, now what? You don’t want to wake up in the morning and say, What is going to happen today? I cannot imagine going to work today. Steve is doing this, and Joe is doing that, and Nina is doing this. Nobody is talking to anybody. We don’t have group meetings. Things are falling apart. The donors are frustrated. They don’t know what is going on. They are going to move their money elsewhere because they don’t know if they are getting their donation receipt. It’s a mess. One thing leads to another leads to another. I wish it was as true for the good things. The messy things have a more quick and efficient domino effect.
 Russell: This is true. We call them internal controls, what you talk about, for the IRS. How do you control who handles what? What is your record-keeping like? That gives you the scope of any audit you do. The scope is based on several things. One is the corporate records. I know you mentioned that. I’d like to ask you to speak to that. As an auditor, when I walked into a corporation, I wanted the internal control polices. The corporate minute book was the first thing I reviewed.
 Lauren: Was this on the for-profit side?
 Russell: The for-profit side, yes.
 Lauren: It’s similar. When you submit for a nonprofit designation, you submit all these bylaws, including a conflict bylaw. I can’t remember the title.
 Russell: Conflict of interest policy.
 Lauren: My brain went dead. This is so big in the nonprofit world. It’s almost like insider trading in the for-profit world. If you have created a bylaw and implemented it and approved it and ratified it, and it’s part of your corporate record-book, and you don’t adhere to it, it’s as good as throwing it against the wall to see if it sticks. This can put you in more harm than not having it in the first place. You’re purposefully going around what you implemented. That’s not cool. Your minute book depends on your state because some minute books, Delaware is strict on their minute book requirements and updates. Florida is less strict. The nonprofit requirements are different. But you need to follow your policies. Your bylaw policy said, We are going to have a board of directors meeting once a quarter. You need to have it and put it in the minute book once a quarter.
 I will tell you something that you probably don’t know, and I shouldn’t say it out loud. If there are businesses out there that want help with their minute books, we can fix them after the fact as long as it’s before the auditor comes in. You just have to get everything up to date and in place. That’s important. You can’t fudge it, but it’s okay to do it after the minute you’re supposed to do it as long as you get it done. Let’s get together. Call us, and we can get it done with you so that we can make sure you won’t have a problem if the IRS or any other entity shows up at your door. Today, they’re not coming so fast because they’re still unfortunately on shutdown.
 Russell: The greater likelihood over the few years is a state regulator will walk in your office because of the reduction, and the money has been moved out of regulation. That’s another discussion. It’s true with the 1023. There are certain things you represent that you’re going to do. What the auditors do is they look at your books and bylaws: Are you doing what you say you’re going to do? I know there are laws out there. But we go by what you say that you are going to do. That is a huge portion of what an auditor would look at as to determine if you are on track, if you are in compliance. Are you doing what you say you’re going to do? These are important to put on the table. With good systems in place, and it takes a little time to do this, the operation smooths out. Am I on track with that?
 Lauren: Hopefully. It’s just like anything. You could have paper in a book or online. Then it’s a matter of implementing and enforcing. Unfortunately, we’re all guilty of creating a policy where the consequences are not consistent. Like my child. They’re not consistent, so his behavior is not good from time to time. It’s my fault because I am not consistent in enforcing a consequence. Same with a minute book. It’s the same concept. A lot of people, just like setting up a nonprofit and using it as a sham, put thing into place to cover their you-know-whats. That’s it. It sits on the shelf. They do it to be in compliance. If they are not honoring it and adhering to it, whatever operating system or control you have, it won’t matter. You can’t suddenly say, “I can’t have a policy for it.” If you haven’t enforced it in the past three years, and the person has been doing whatever they have been doing, or their brother has been sending them money, I am far-fetched here. The reality is there is a lot of this that goes on. As more for-profit businesses set up nonprofit entities, this is an ongoing problem. I think it’s all a matter of training. If your people are not trained properly on what your policies mean, it’s only a piece of paper. You need to have the policy, create the manual, create the operating policies, create the training, train your people, get them to buy in, have them involved, and have consequences for noncompliance. It’s a range of things that need to happen. Have a third party designated to oversee that process so it doesn’t fall on the executive director.
 Hugh: Absolutely. That’s why you have board members and advisors. They really have fiduciary and governance oversight.
 Let’s go back to this assessment. It sounds painful and expensive. What’s involved? If I wanted to go through the process and take this assessment, what’s involved in doing it? What do I get from that? Does it help me figure out how to do all this? It sounds scary right now.
 Lauren: We don’t let it be scary. I am the non-scary lawyer. I have a free quiz. It’s not specifically oriented to the nonprofit world yet; we are developing one now. I’ll be happy to share it with your listeners. It’s ScaleUpCheckUpQuiz.online. You can take that quiz; it’s about 2 minutes. We can set up a quick call to discuss your needs.
 The assessment is $47. I can share a $20 coupon code that makes it $27. It’s a customized score that highlights your issues and lets you know how at risk you are. It gives you access to my calendar for a quick call.
 The assessment and a strategy session is only $197. That gives you time to go through the assessment results and talk about how they could be improved. How can you improve your score so your bottom in is better?
 Our big deliverable item. The regular price is $997. However, Hugh, you, I, and Russell can talk about a special delivery product for the nonprofit world and can get a coupon code. I don’t want to charge that much for people in the nonprofit world. It’s a blueprint that shows you everything you need to scale up your business successfully. Then we create a strategy based on your budget and priorities. If your priority is to get a business plan in place because you want to build a facility, that’s what we will focus on first. That will come out of this analysis and deep dive we do for you.
 Hugh: That sounds interesting. The quiz, anybody can take that. We try to convince those that are running a nonprofit, which is a bad word, it’s a misnomer. Those who are in a tax-exempt enterprise, a for-purpose organization, they are really, there is a high level, it’s critical that we establish sound business principles. If you have an organization, you should run it responsibly. It’s good stewardship, if nothing else.
 The quiz, we could evaluate it as a tax-exempt business. It’s ScaleUpCheckUpQuiz-
 Lauren: ScaleUpCheckUpQuiz.online.
 Hugh: That gives them the free quiz. You fill something, and you have a chance to interpret it. Then the assessment could be available through SynerVision Leadership Foundation for people who want to find out how much trouble they are in. Then there is a prescriptive; this is what you do about it.
 Lauren: Not exactly. The prescriptive is more detailed in the success plan. The assessment, if they do it with the strategy session, we will give them some ideas and tips on how to improve the score. It’s the success plan that will give you a blueprint of everything you should do to make your structure more sound so you can accomplish your goals.
 Hugh: Your basic website is ScaleUpCheckUp.com. There is everything about the products there. There is a toll-free number to contact you. You have this purple branding that is quite elegant.
 Lauren: I’ve always been into purple. My existing brand is purple. For as long as I’ve had a brand, I’ve had purple.
 Hugh: That’s on your site. People can go to ScaleUpCheckUp.com and can learn about you.
 What have we not asked you that people need to know about this whole line of risk mitigation?
 Lauren: The real question is: So what if I don’t do it? So what if I don’t get my stuff in place? What happens? How do I get caught? What’s the risk?
 There is a huge risk. As Russell knows, having been an auditor, you risk not only for the nonprofit organization losing your designation, piercing the corporate veil, which means they go beyond the business and to you personally. You can lose your own personal assets. You put your family at risk. These are serious issues that people just don’t want to deal with. They want to deal with numbers and money. Numbers and money, this will get you more numbers and money than any sale is going to ever get you. Your sale will be stopped dead in its tracks. All that time and effort on that sale will be wasted because you haven’t done what you needed to do. When you want to create a strategic partnership or synergy, for example, you and I, with SynerVision, if we have a joint venture or strategic partnership, we both want to make sure we both did certain due diligence, with the compliance checks. We have our business in place. Our licenses are kosher. Everything is right and in place. Otherwise, I don’t want to do business with you, and you don’t want to do business with me. They could have a multi-million-dollar prospect on the table.
 I had a client I was working with for a short time. They were about to enter into this multi-million-dollar deal, a very big name. Big. Big. One of the biggest. I’m trying to see Russell’s face. I think he’s smiling. I’m willing, they didn’t have their minute book records in place. For three years, they didn’t have a single document. Because this company is so big and successful, they wanted to see that all their I’s were dotted and T’s were crossed. Do you know this company would not pay me to get their records updated? It was $5,000 or something like that. It was nothing. They didn’t want to deal with it. They lost the deal. Multi-million-dollars. It was too late because they could have had it done, and they would have been at the table. This is what happens. You lose your seat at the table. You will have someone come after you and sue you, whether it’s a disgruntled employee or the IRS. You won’t have access to potential huge opportunities with your intellectual property. You are putting yourself at risk every which way and losing out on opportunities to make a fortune.
 So let’s have a conversation and see how we can help you scale your business successfully and not violate your 501(c)3 designation or your company bylaws. I think there is a lot of for-profit corporations that are purposeful. It’s all confusing, right? I try to have a purpose and make an impact, even though I have a for-profit company. There are so many ways we can create opportunity for you as a company and business owner to scale successfully. It’s silly to throw that opportunity away because of fear of the unknown.
 Hugh: Yes, it is. This is a huge inventory of important things that people don’t know to ask about. Russell, before we do our closing sequence, do you have another issue we need to bring before this lady?
 Russell: I was thinking about a point you made earlier that is worth emphasizing again. There are a lot of tools out there. People find templates and guides to build contracts and agreements with. Nothing wrong with them. The problem is people don’t have them reviewed by someone who has the knowledge necessary to make sure everything is in there to protect yourself. Just grabbing something.
 The other thing people don’t do is read the fine print in their own contract. They create something that they are going to adhere to. If they look at it with the eyes of, This will protect us from other people, they may not be protecting themselves from themselves by clarifying what they are agreeing to do.
 How common is it that you see people with these boilerplate templates? How can they get them reviewed? They definitely need to do that. Is it something that will break the bank? I think that’s what stops a lot of people from doing that.
 Lauren: Thank you for asking that question. One signature speech of mine is “7 Secret Scale-Up Success Strategies.” One of the secrets is: Don’t download a boilerplate template without getting it reviewed. There are multiple reasons to have it reviewed, some of which you addressed. Also, they could name the wrong parties. They could pull the wrong template. It could be perfect, but for another situation. They may think they need X, and they may need Y. It could be covered with legalese that no one understands, including lawyers. I wrote an agreement last week for a nonprofit for a lawyer. I was working with this lawyer. I want it to be two pages. This was a lawyer who was telling another lawyer that this agreement should be two pages. I can make it four. I’m laughing. I saw him last night and was like, “Two pages?” We are trying to condense things and make them concise because you get lost in it.
 I can’t give you a flat fee, but we do have packages that include a range of services, including reviewing up to five agreements of up to 10 pages each. We have them on monthly packages, semi-annual packages, and annual packages. You need to grab one of those. Not go to those online services, but have someone you can trust and contact and text, a live person, who can help you look at those agreements and see what’s missing or not. What’s missing is almost as bad or often worse than what’s not missing. You won’t catch everything. No lawyer will catch everything because I don’t know exactly what every single business owner wants to accomplish. But if you don’t have it reviewed, you may as well jump in the ocean without a life preserver.
 Hugh: This is helpful information, Lauren. Thank you.
 *Sponsor message from SynerVision Leadership Foundation*
 What I’m taking away from Lauren’s interview today is there are things about enterprises that we don’t even know we’re supposed to know.
 Lauren, what thought do you want to leave people with?  
 Lauren: Think about your nonprofit or for-purpose business as a business. Take it seriously. It deserves your attention. It deserves the attention of professionals. Don’t be everything to your organization. Bring in the professionals that you can trust to accomplish the goals you need. I am available to speak with any of you about how to scale up your nonprofit. I look forward to working with you, Hugh and Russell, and collaborating with you further. Don’t take the risk of losing all that you’ve built because you’re afraid to make a phone call or send an email.
 Russell: This has been an enlightening and uplifting conversation. Here at SynerVision Leadership, we have all sorts of people like Lauren that are here. Come join the community and have a chance to plug into conversations with people so you are not doing things by yourself. We are the source for all things nonprofit. If we don’t have the answers, we know people like Lauren who do.
  
  
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>What are the Secrets to Scaling Your Nonprofit with Lauren Cohen (archive)</strong></h1> <p><a href="https://www.scaleupcheckup.com/"></a>Global entrepreneur and #1 bestselling author <strong>Lauren A. Cohen</strong>is an attorney licensed in both the U.S. and Canada. Lauren is an expert concierge immigration and business legal advisor boasting a stellar track record of success. Lauren has first-hand knowledge of the visa process, having herself immigrated from Canada in 2001, and later becoming an American citizen in 2012.</p> <p>In 2008, Lauren started e-Council Inc. an internationally-acclaimed company focused on providing concierge strategic full-service solutions for businesses seeking capital and foreign entrepreneurs seeking access to the U.S. market. In 2017, Lauren established Find My Silver Lining, a 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to helping struggling single moms - and parents in general - to find their silver lining in a crowded world.</p> <p>Continuing in the tradition of sound strategic solutions, ScaleUPCheckUP is Lauren’s newest initiative - an online risk assessment checkup tool for growing businesses in ScaleUP mode with the overriding mission of anticipating challenges before they happen. Designed in response to the challenges faced by so many entrepreneurs that simply do not understand the critical importance of proper professional guidance, and/or are afraid that the costs of protection are too high, ScaleUPCheckUP is poised to revolutionize the professional services industry and the way in which collaborative professional services are delivered.</p> <p>For more information go to <a href="https://www.scaleupcheckup.com/">https://www.scaleupcheckup.com</a></p> <strong>Interview Transcript</strong> <p><strong>NPE Lauren Cohen</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> This is Hugh Ballou. My guest today has a fascinating background and a real passion for helping leaders in any kind of organization. We are going to be specific about scale-up check-up and how it is of value to those of us leading charitable organizations. We like to say a “for-purpose” organization. We have for-profit and for-purpose. If you would kindly tell us who is Lauren Cohen, a bit about your background and what led you to doing this particular initiative today. Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange,</em> Lauren.</p> <p><strong>Lauren Cohen:</strong> Thank you. I will speak as loudly as I appropriately can without screaming. Hugh, it’s a pleasure to be on your show and to know you. I am excited about our opportunities together.</p> <p>I am originally from Canada. I moved here in 2001 and became a citizen in 2012. I was doing immigration law outside the corporate transactional work internationally for seven years. I kept seeing these recurring themes among businesses who were seeking to raise capital and for entrepreneurs and businesses who were looking to come into the country. The recurring theme was they were really focused on sales and marketing and getting coaching and moving up the ladder and making money, but they weren’t so focused on getting a strong foundation in place. The reality is that you can’t really scale your business or often even stay in business if you don’t scale up your business.</p> <p>In response to this recurring theme, I developed this online risk assessment tool which helps companies find their missing pieces, their gaps, and fill the gaps so they can scale up successfully. It is applicable to nonprofits because nonprofits need to scale as much as for-profits. At the end of the day, we’re all about making money. It’s about where the money goes that is the main difference between a for-profit and a nonprofit. As a social entrepreneur with a social consciousness, I am very focused on helping businesses be able to scale up successfully without hitting all these roadblocks along the way. Not to say that they won’t hit any roadblocks, but the roadblocks are going to be a lot more manageable, and they will be able to respond to them more effectively because they will have the right professional team and structure in place to be able to do that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, this is Russell Dennis who has jumped on the call. You can tell the difference between us because I have more hair. That’s it.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> That’s the only difference I see.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, you guys got snow out there in Colorado, didn’t you?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> A little bit. We got a little bit out here. It wasn’t a great deal, more in the mountains, about an inch or two here in Aurora.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Lauren is jealous. She is in the Fort Lauderdale area, and she didn’t get any snow.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> I think I mentioned I’m originally from Canada. I grew up in Toronto, and I definitely know snow. I have a lot of good friends living in Colorado, including in the cannabis industry and outside of the cannabis industry.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Lauren, tell us a little bit about- You are trained as an attorney. What kind of attorney?</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> I am. I have been a corporate and immigration concierge attorney doing international law and handling international people through advisory services for longer than I care to acknowledge. I am licensed both in Canada and the U.S. I have been working with local entrepreneurs all over the world. You name it, I have been there. Europe, Israel, South America, and Canada, and the U.S. even. Mexico. It’s been an interesting ride. I have always felt a calling to the entrepreneurial side of my psyche. As much as I love being a lawyer and that training was great, I don’t love sitting behind a desk. I love being with people and helping people and making deals happen. The M&amp;A lawyers who are on Wall Street, I am that type of mindset, but with my own clients and having a much more hands-on approach to working with clients and making sure all their moving parts are moving in the right direction. At the end of the day, there are so many different things that entrepreneurs and small business owners have to deal with in nonprofit and for-profit. They just don’t know who to trust and who not to trust. I became this trusted advisor on an ongoing basis and decided to turn it into a larger-scale opportunity to help these businesses scale and grow successfully. It’s a nice system. I am happy to share all of the steps with you. It’s a nice system that helps you get your structure in place as a blueprint to success. It’s like a business plan.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great. Do you have a volume control on your computer?</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> I do, and I have it all the way up.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That won’t help. I will bring you up when I do the edit of this. Let’s talk about the word “assessment.” Everybody uses it. I’m not sure any of us have a definitive paragraph or sentence that we can say to describe it. What is an assessment? Why is it important? why is it important especially for nonprofit leaders?</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> Our assessment is quite different than a traditional assessment because we are assessing various foundational issues. Do you have your corporate minutes in place? Have you set up your structure properly? Do you perhaps have trademarks? A lot of these nonprofits are sitting on potential trademark or licensing opportunities that they may be overlooking. Did you put a business plan in place? Do you have an exit strategy in place? For nonprofits, an exit strategy is much different because you have to have an exit strategy for an IRS requirement. It’s a matter of looking at all the various components of getting your structure in place and making sure your structure is sound so you can scale and grow.</p> <p>What happens, you will agree with me I’m sure, is I find all too often these small business owners, these accidental entrepreneurs, came up with this idea and suddenly grew. They didn’t pay any attention. It’s like building your dream home on a sinkhole. Suddenly, the sinkhole collapses, and your whole home collapses with it. I am here to make sure that doesn’t happen. I am there to help you get your business on a solid foundation and make sure you are not building on a sinkhole before you start spending all this time, money, and effort to scale your business. At the end of the day, you can only scale so far, and it will come crashing down if you don’t have that foundation. That could be assessed.</p> <p>We are assessing your foundational infrastructure. We have a customized score report that we provide, and we have an analysis of what that score means and how you can improve your score so your foundation is stronger. We also have a quiz that I’ll share with everybody on the call. It’s a freebie, a free online quiz that helps you to see initially how committed you are and how committed your business is. Our mindset might be 100%, but our business may not be ready to match our mindset.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> A lot of people mistake assessment and evaluation. They look at it as, It’s something I have to do to get somebody off my back. It could be the government or a donor. We are doing this because we have to. They talk about some aspects of their work when you ask them how they know you’re effective, “Oh, you can’t measure this.” How much of that do you see, and how do you address that when people come at you?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong></p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> If you can tell me the answer to that, I will have the idea that will get me on the front cover of <em>Entrepreneur Magazine,</em> which is where I’m going. It’s challenging. What I’m dealing with, and when I go on stage, I am making broccoli great again. It’s about that. when I am building the broccoli of your business, it’s not the ice cream, it’s not the fun stuff, it’s not the dollar dollar dollar, but at the end of the day, it really is. Even for a nonprofit, helping you get your structure in place will allow you to get more donor dollars, allow you to have a stronger valuation, allow you to potentially grow your business successfully, and this adds zero’s to your bank account. My new messaging is all about show me the money. If you have a strong foundation in place, you will be able to see more money, if it comes from donors, buyers, or both. Certainly a nonprofit can offer for-profit products and services and make money. It’s about what happens to that money that separates it from a for-profit business.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You have a nonprofit yourself?</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> I do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What’s it called?</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> It’s called Find My Silver Lining. I established it in 2017.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You used this assessment yourself?</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> I did.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When you talk about this, there is a strong element of enthusiasm and passion. Was part of the inspiration seeing so many people get stuck in the mud or walk in the wall or fall off a cliff?</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> I want to say around February of last year, I have been a part of this coaching program. I offered to review some client agreements at no charge as a gift. In doing so, I realized that there were many business owners in that program that didn’t have their ducks in a row. Many had been in business for many years. I’m not saying that that’s not possible; it’s very possible. But once you hit a certain threshold, you’re not a mom and pop anymore, so you could be a target, not just for the IRS, but for litigation, potentially bankruptcy. People see opportunities. People want to challenge you. If you have a disgruntled employee, whatever the case is. As soon as you are starting to scale, your target becomes bigger. I kept seeing this. Oh my goodness, these amazing business owners are exposing themselves to risk. There has to be a way to address that risk and provide a solution. Ultimately what I am building is a home advisor for profits and nonprofit business owners to provide a resource of certified, vetted professionals like you guys who can provide a range of services: strategic services like legal, financial, accounting, insurance, business planning, exit strategies, all high-level B2B services that they are just finding on the Internet.</p> <p>Finding these resources on the Internet is like going in the Yellow Pages. We all used them. AAA, so they would get to the front of that section. It’s the same as Google Ads. The more you pay, the higher you rank. That is where they will get the most traction. It doesn’t mean they’re the best. Does it mean they have been vetted? No. Because they are at the highest ranking, you are going to call them first. I am trying to be the antithesis of that. We won’t talk about the companies out there who are especially providing legal services that you have no idea what you’re getting. I have a client now who applied for a patent in June. They didn’t even know what a patent was. There is no guidance. There is nobody holding their hand.</p> <p>What I have been doing for so long—I wrote a book called <em>Finding Your Silver Lining in the Business Immigration Process.</em> Everything is about finding the silver lining. Part of the reason is because to find a silver lining through adversity, my nonprofit is for single moms and single parents to help them find their way through the clouds. It’s all about that. In everything you do, if you have somebody to count on, a support system, entrepreneurs and small business owners are often running on empty. We are running on our own. We are isolated. We are trying to have an impact. It’s very hard to have an impact without the support and trusted advisors around you, so that is what I am building.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re an attorney. You look at things differently than an ordinary person. You look at it as part of a risk assessment.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> That’s a good way of characterizing it, yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’ve seen people get in trouble unnecessarily.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re looking at the holes. We’re looking at the donut; you’re looking at the hole. You see the silver lining, but you realize there are some holes. You’re talking about a corporation, be it for-profit or nonprofit, and that corporation is a liability shield. Without the right documents in place, people can sue you and come for you personally if they can pierce that corporate veil.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> Very big deal. People don’t realize that. They think if they have a company, they’re protected, and they’re not because people can come for you personally. That is another dimension of the problem.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The compliance piece- recording your contracts, putting them in the corporate record book. Any agreements or expenditures. It’s about liability protection. It’s also about, you mentioned empower donors. Russell, it would occur to me we don’t always protect ourselves from audits, but it would make us audit-worthy if you had your records filed. What are you hearing here, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> For me, the first step to building a high-performance nonprofit is having that solid foundation. There are a lot of things that go in there. If you don’t have the right legal protection or the right structure, moving forward, you have to have the right structure. For nonprofits, succession planning is critical, too.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> Big deal.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Moreso maybe than exit planning. Everybody plans to operate in perpetuity. That doesn’t always happen. But to have a succession plan so that you know how things are going to flow, no matter who is in the building at any given time, that structure sets a nonprofit up for success. Mitigating risks. I don’t think a lot of nonprofits think about risks, but risk is there. You have natural risks. You have legal risks just like any other entity. The thing that came to mind was a question because you deal with this so much on the structural side. We talk about it in terms of strategy, but we defer to legal experts, accounting experts, experts who have that critical knowledge in their field that will keep us in compliance and keep us operating correctly. When it comes to scaling, I know a lot of times growth comes out of nowhere. You catch fire. You go viral. All of a sudden, you have all of this money and donors and people approaching you. When it comes to being prepared in this, what would you say is the biggest gap that you see nonprofits have? What is the most common mistake they make when they are that point in time?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong></p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> It’s common for both nonprofits and for-profits although nonprofits are more guilty of this. Nonprofits think that because they have this designation, they are immune from challenge, or they are litigation-proof, or something along those lines. That just isn’t true. Nobody will come after us; we are a charitable organization; we have a 501(c)3 designation. Whatever the case is. Why would they come after us? We don’t have deep pockets. Really? A lot of them have deeper pockets because of the fact that they can distribute the income to their shareholders or the dividends or whatever. As a result, there is a lot of nonprofits out there that are extraordinarily successful. United Way, Red Cross, Jewish Federation. There is a huge amount of donors, very large businesses.</p> <p>There is a colleague of mine in this coaching program who runs a nonprofit. He came to the coaching program, and he was looking to raise $2 million. That was his goal for the year. He ended up raising $20 million because he created this licensing program and sold it to other nonprofits, which is amazing. That is where there is an opportunity. It’s not just about assessing legal risk or legal vulnerability. It’s also about the opportunity that this presents to you. I was talking about trademarks, and a lot of nonprofits have access to trademarks but don’t know about them. In my report, I talk not only about risk, but also about hidden fortune. There is a lot of possible fortunes that these businessowners or executive directors might be sitting on that they could be making a great deal of money giving back to the community and making an even broader impact. I think that is where that missing link is. They don’t think about a nonprofit as a business. They think about it as a charity.</p> <p>A lot of lawyers are guilty of this, too. Lawyers and service providers. Lawyers run their business as fee for service. I have developed this professional resource success plan, which outlines all the professionals that are needed to fill all the gaps in your armor and to potentially help you to scale and grow. We talk about mindset and coaching and opportunity and where do you want to go and your exit or your business succession plan.</p> <p>You’re right. Every business needs a succession plan, whether it’s an exit or a legacy. No matter what, in order to be successful, in order for a for-profit business to be successful at due diligence or a nonprofit to be successful in their succession planning, they need that structure in place. they are just not paying attention it. They are coasting along, thinking about how much donor money they can get this year, and are they meeting your budget, and are their donors happy. This is all great stuff. But think about the potential of greater impact if you are able to get those pieces in place and make that difference. It’s like night and day.</p> <p>For both of you, once we have the opportunity to work through this with some of your client base, you can see how much of a difference it makes. They are coming out exposed, and then they are going back in and getting their hair done and makeup. Now they are ready to show themselves to the public. You are not getting too much hair done over there, Russell. It is a completely different mindset.</p> <p>I hear a lot of entrepreneurs work in their pajamas. I can barely work sweatpants even if I am working from home because that is not the mindset I want. I want to be in work mode no matter where I am. It’s important. I think it’s the same for for-profit business owners who are running a sole proprietor. They are not looking at it as a business; they are looking at it as a hobby. Until you make that transition, and look at it as a business, you’re going to stay at a certain plateau. You may scale; you may make money. But at a certain point, you’re eventually going to collapse.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> As you talk about that, one of the things that comes to mind when you talk about opportunities and other things businesses have access to, a business revenue comes to mind. Opportunities for mission-based revenue. You also have unrelated business income, as far as, it’s money that’s possibly left on the table because people don’t think about bringing a valuable service. When it comes to revenue generation and protecting your intellectual property is important, it should separately be maintained and protected. Everything should be walled off. There is another discussion. When it comes to revenue, whether it’s business-related or unrelated, when you see organizations that have one or both, what are some of the biggest pitfalls you see them fall into?</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> One of the things is that there is a limitation, but you still have to stay true. If you are a nonprofit and are providing for-profit services and products, you still have to stay true to your mission. If you start making millions of dollars and use it as a sham, so you can pass through income at a tax-free rate, or through a nonprofit to get the benefits of that, or raise money to do advertising, that is where the problems happen. The separation needs to be clean. If you start paying an executive director, suddenly they get a 100% salary increase, where is the money coming from? Where is the money going to? Are you circumventing the rule of putting the money back into the directors’ pockets? That is where the problems happen.</p> <p>There is also an issue of fiscal sponsorship, as I’m sure you’re familiar with, and renting your nonprofit to another entity. There are ways to do it that are legal and kosher, as long as you follow the rules. But if you are just using your nonprofit as a sham or as a front for what you’re really trying to accomplish or for your for-profit business, you will lose your designation. It’s as simple as that.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s important to put your structure. You have to have a separate structure, especially for unrelated, but also business income, and mission-based revenue. You have to make sure the vast majority of those funds are going into your programs and operation of your nonprofit to keep from creating a tax event. Unrelated business income, you file separate returns. You pay taxes on that the way you do with others.</p> <p>What happens is people can get distracted. People who approach a nonprofit can get confused. Do you find that nonprofits that are successful with generating large amounts of mission-based revenue, or maybe a substantial amount, a good percentage of the revenue they generate, do you find that they have difficulty getting donors because they see, “Well, they are making plenty of money. I don’t need to write them a check.”?</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> It’s definitely a challenge. However, it depends on your mission and how impactful it is and how broad it is. I think that what happens with some nonprofits, and this is what should happen, is as they become more successful financially, their mission expands beyond their original intended scope, demographically or in terms of the people they are helping. There is room for that within the IRS code. As long as that happens, I don’t see it as a problem. But as soon as that is not happening, or once there is a compromise in that, it does create challenges.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The key is to structure and make sure everything is compartmentalized and appropriately reported. It’s about the systems you have in place. In order to scale, you have to have really good strong systems. What are the ones that you think are essential for them to have first? If you had to set systems up in a specific sequence for nonprofits, what would that be?</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> Operating systems are critical for any business; I don’t care what business you are. You have to have an operating system for everything that happens from the time you answer the phone to the time you deliver the service until after that, all the way through, for the life of that relationship. You have to have a system in place for every single touchpoint with the prospective donor, with the donor, with following up with the donor, with if the donor moves. You have to have operating systems for all of your internal processes. They should be externally driven, one for your outbound touchpoints and one for your inbound stuff. How do your people work with each other? Who is responsible for your bank account? How many people are signing checks? What is the check and balance there? How does that all work? Every single thing should be documented.</p> <p>When I started this, I didn’t realize how few businesses have systems. The only systems they have are the ones they pulled offline. That is the exception, not the rule. This is true of legal documents too because everyone goes online and pulls documents from there. It’s like filling out the 1023, the IRS 501(c)3 application. Oh, this is easy. I can do this. It’s just some forms. If that were true, there wouldn’t be all these businesses doing that. It’s very complicated. Even the 1023 form should not be done on your own. You need to make sure you are following the rules, and whatever you put in there is going to be systematized within your organization. What happens if the executive director quits someday? I’m sure this has happened to your clients. Uh oh, now what?</p> <p>One of my messages is about dealing with the Uh oh, now what? You don’t want to wake up in the morning and say, What is going to happen today? I cannot imagine going to work today. Steve is doing this, and Joe is doing that, and Nina is doing this. Nobody is talking to anybody. We don’t have group meetings. Things are falling apart. The donors are frustrated. They don’t know what is going on. They are going to move their money elsewhere because they don’t know if they are getting their donation receipt. It’s a mess. One thing leads to another leads to another. I wish it was as true for the good things. The messy things have a more quick and efficient domino effect.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is true. We call them internal controls, what you talk about, for the IRS. How do you control who handles what? What is your record-keeping like? That gives you the scope of any audit you do. The scope is based on several things. One is the corporate records. I know you mentioned that. I’d like to ask you to speak to that. As an auditor, when I walked into a corporation, I wanted the internal control polices. The corporate minute book was the first thing I reviewed.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> Was this on the for-profit side?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The for-profit side, yes.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> It’s similar. When you submit for a nonprofit designation, you submit all these bylaws, including a conflict bylaw. I can’t remember the title.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Conflict of interest policy.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> My brain went dead. This is so big in the nonprofit world. It’s almost like insider trading in the for-profit world. If you have created a bylaw and implemented it and approved it and ratified it, and it’s part of your corporate record-book, and you don’t adhere to it, it’s as good as throwing it against the wall to see if it sticks. This can put you in more harm than not having it in the first place. You’re purposefully going around what you implemented. That’s not cool. Your minute book depends on your state because some minute books, Delaware is strict on their minute book requirements and updates. Florida is less strict. The nonprofit requirements are different. But you need to follow your policies. Your bylaw policy said, We are going to have a board of directors meeting once a quarter. You need to have it and put it in the minute book once a quarter.</p> <p>I will tell you something that you probably don’t know, and I shouldn’t say it out loud. If there are businesses out there that want help with their minute books, we can fix them after the fact as long as it’s before the auditor comes in. You just have to get everything up to date and in place. That’s important. You can’t fudge it, but it’s okay to do it after the minute you’re supposed to do it as long as you get it done. Let’s get together. Call us, and we can get it done with you so that we can make sure you won’t have a problem if the IRS or any other entity shows up at your door. Today, they’re not coming so fast because they’re still unfortunately on shutdown.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The greater likelihood over the few years is a state regulator will walk in your office because of the reduction, and the money has been moved out of regulation. That’s another discussion. It’s true with the 1023. There are certain things you represent that you’re going to do. What the auditors do is they look at your books and bylaws: Are you doing what you say you’re going to do? I know there are laws out there. But we go by what you say that you are going to do. That is a huge portion of what an auditor would look at as to determine if you are on track, if you are in compliance. Are you doing what you say you’re going to do? These are important to put on the table. With good systems in place, and it takes a little time to do this, the operation smooths out. Am I on track with that?</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> Hopefully. It’s just like anything. You could have paper in a book or online. Then it’s a matter of implementing and enforcing. Unfortunately, we’re all guilty of creating a policy where the consequences are not consistent. Like my child. They’re not consistent, so his behavior is not good from time to time. It’s my fault because I am not consistent in enforcing a consequence. Same with a minute book. It’s the same concept. A lot of people, just like setting up a nonprofit and using it as a sham, put thing into place to cover their you-know-whats. That’s it. It sits on the shelf. They do it to be in compliance. If they are not honoring it and adhering to it, whatever operating system or control you have, it won’t matter. You can’t suddenly say, “I can’t have a policy for it.” If you haven’t enforced it in the past three years, and the person has been doing whatever they have been doing, or their brother has been sending them money, I am far-fetched here. The reality is there is a lot of this that goes on. As more for-profit businesses set up nonprofit entities, this is an ongoing problem. I think it’s all a matter of training. If your people are not trained properly on what your policies mean, it’s only a piece of paper. You need to have the policy, create the manual, create the operating policies, create the training, train your people, get them to buy in, have them involved, and have consequences for noncompliance. It’s a range of things that need to happen. Have a third party designated to oversee that process so it doesn’t fall on the executive director.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. That’s why you have board members and advisors. They really have fiduciary and governance oversight.</p> <p>Let’s go back to this assessment. It sounds painful and expensive. What’s involved? If I wanted to go through the process and take this assessment, what’s involved in doing it? What do I get from that? Does it help me figure out how to do all this? It sounds scary right now.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> We don’t let it be scary. I am the non-scary lawyer. I have a free quiz. It’s not specifically oriented to the nonprofit world yet; we are developing one now. I’ll be happy to share it with your listeners. It’s ScaleUpCheckUpQuiz.online. You can take that quiz; it’s about 2 minutes. We can set up a quick call to discuss your needs.</p> <p>The assessment is $47. I can share a $20 coupon code that makes it $27. It’s a customized score that highlights your issues and lets you know how at risk you are. It gives you access to my calendar for a quick call.</p> <p>The assessment and a strategy session is only $197. That gives you time to go through the assessment results and talk about how they could be improved. How can you improve your score so your bottom in is better?</p> <p>Our big deliverable item. The regular price is $997. However, Hugh, you, I, and Russell can talk about a special delivery product for the nonprofit world and can get a coupon code. I don’t want to charge that much for people in the nonprofit world. It’s a blueprint that shows you everything you need to scale up your business successfully. Then we create a strategy based on your budget and priorities. If your priority is to get a business plan in place because you want to build a facility, that’s what we will focus on first. That will come out of this analysis and deep dive we do for you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That sounds interesting. The quiz, anybody can take that. We try to convince those that are running a nonprofit, which is a bad word, it’s a misnomer. Those who are in a tax-exempt enterprise, a for-purpose organization, they are really, there is a high level, it’s critical that we establish sound business principles. If you have an organization, you should run it responsibly. It’s good stewardship, if nothing else.</p> <p>The quiz, we could evaluate it as a tax-exempt business. It’s ScaleUpCheckUpQuiz-</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> ScaleUpCheckUpQuiz.online.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That gives them the free quiz. You fill something, and you have a chance to interpret it. Then the assessment could be available through SynerVision Leadership Foundation for people who want to find out how much trouble they are in. Then there is a prescriptive; this is what you do about it.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> Not exactly. The prescriptive is more detailed in the success plan. The assessment, if they do it with the strategy session, we will give them some ideas and tips on how to improve the score. It’s the success plan that will give you a blueprint of everything you should do to make your structure more sound so you can accomplish your goals.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Your basic website is ScaleUpCheckUp.com. There is everything about the products there. There is a toll-free number to contact you. You have this purple branding that is quite elegant.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> I’ve always been into purple. My existing brand is purple. For as long as I’ve had a brand, I’ve had purple.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s on your site. People can go to ScaleUpCheckUp.com and can learn about you.</p> <p>What have we not asked you that people need to know about this whole line of risk mitigation?</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> The real question is: So what if I don’t do it? So what if I don’t get my stuff in place? What happens? How do I get caught? What’s the risk?</p> <p>There is a huge risk. As Russell knows, having been an auditor, you risk not only for the nonprofit organization losing your designation, piercing the corporate veil, which means they go beyond the business and to you personally. You can lose your own personal assets. You put your family at risk. These are serious issues that people just don’t want to deal with. They want to deal with numbers and money. Numbers and money, this will get you more numbers and money than any sale is going to ever get you. Your sale will be stopped dead in its tracks. All that time and effort on that sale will be wasted because you haven’t done what you needed to do. When you want to create a strategic partnership or synergy, for example, you and I, with SynerVision, if we have a joint venture or strategic partnership, we both want to make sure we both did certain due diligence, with the compliance checks. We have our business in place. Our licenses are kosher. Everything is right and in place. Otherwise, I don’t want to do business with you, and you don’t want to do business with me. They could have a multi-million-dollar prospect on the table.</p> <p>I had a client I was working with for a short time. They were about to enter into this multi-million-dollar deal, a very big name. Big. Big. One of the biggest. I’m trying to see Russell’s face. I think he’s smiling. I’m willing, they didn’t have their minute book records in place. For three years, they didn’t have a single document. Because this company is so big and successful, they wanted to see that all their I’s were dotted and T’s were crossed. Do you know this company would not pay me to get their records updated? It was $5,000 or something like that. It was nothing. They didn’t want to deal with it. They lost the deal. Multi-million-dollars. It was too late because they could have had it done, and they would have been at the table. This is what happens. You lose your seat at the table. You will have someone come after you and sue you, whether it’s a disgruntled employee or the IRS. You won’t have access to potential huge opportunities with your intellectual property. You are putting yourself at risk every which way and losing out on opportunities to make a fortune.</p> <p>So let’s have a conversation and see how we can help you scale your business successfully and not violate your 501(c)3 designation or your company bylaws. I think there is a lot of for-profit corporations that are purposeful. It’s all confusing, right? I try to have a purpose and make an impact, even though I have a for-profit company. There are so many ways we can create opportunity for you as a company and business owner to scale successfully. It’s silly to throw that opportunity away because of fear of the unknown.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes, it is. This is a huge inventory of important things that people don’t know to ask about. Russell, before we do our closing sequence, do you have another issue we need to bring before this lady?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I was thinking about a point you made earlier that is worth emphasizing again. There are a lot of tools out there. People find templates and guides to build contracts and agreements with. Nothing wrong with them. The problem is people don’t have them reviewed by someone who has the knowledge necessary to make sure everything is in there to protect yourself. Just grabbing something.</p> <p>The other thing people don’t do is read the fine print in their own contract. They create something that they are going to adhere to. If they look at it with the eyes of, This will protect us from other people, they may not be protecting themselves from themselves by clarifying what they are agreeing to do.</p> <p>How common is it that you see people with these boilerplate templates? How can they get them reviewed? They definitely need to do that. Is it something that will break the bank? I think that’s what stops a lot of people from doing that.</p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> Thank you for asking that question. One signature speech of mine is “7 Secret Scale-Up Success Strategies.” One of the secrets is: Don’t download a boilerplate template without getting it reviewed. There are multiple reasons to have it reviewed, some of which you addressed. Also, they could name the wrong parties. They could pull the wrong template. It could be perfect, but for another situation. They may think they need X, and they may need Y. It could be covered with legalese that no one understands, including lawyers. I wrote an agreement last week for a nonprofit for a lawyer. I was working with this lawyer. I want it to be two pages. This was a lawyer who was telling another lawyer that this agreement should be two pages. I can make it four. I’m laughing. I saw him last night and was like, “Two pages?” We are trying to condense things and make them concise because you get lost in it.</p> <p>I can’t give you a flat fee, but we do have packages that include a range of services, including reviewing up to five agreements of up to 10 pages each. We have them on monthly packages, semi-annual packages, and annual packages. You need to grab one of those. Not go to those online services, but have someone you can trust and contact and text, a live person, who can help you look at those agreements and see what’s missing or not. What’s missing is almost as bad or often worse than what’s not missing. You won’t catch everything. No lawyer will catch everything because I don’t know exactly what every single business owner wants to accomplish. But if you don’t have it reviewed, you may as well jump in the ocean without a life preserver.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is helpful information, Lauren. Thank you.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from SynerVision Leadership Foundation*</p> <p>What I’m taking away from Lauren’s interview today is there are things about enterprises that we don’t even know we’re supposed to know.</p> <p>Lauren, what thought do you want to leave people with?  </p> <p><strong>Lauren:</strong> Think about your nonprofit or for-purpose business as a business. Take it seriously. It deserves your attention. It deserves the attention of professionals. Don’t be everything to your organization. Bring in the professionals that you can trust to accomplish the goals you need. I am available to speak with any of you about how to scale up your nonprofit. I look forward to working with you, Hugh and Russell, and collaborating with you further. Don’t take the risk of losing all that you’ve built because you’re afraid to make a phone call or send an email.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This has been an enlightening and uplifting conversation. Here at SynerVision Leadership, we have all sorts of people like Lauren that are here. Come join the community and have a chance to plug into conversations with people so you are not doing things by yourself. We are the source for all things nonprofit. If we don’t have the answers, we know people like Lauren who do.</p> <p> </p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Leaders Achieve Great Results When They...</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/leaders-achieve-great-results-when-they</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 26 Aug 2019 18:33:48 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/777538ac-b329-11eb-9f0f-03627f7b2799/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Ivy Slater</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3243</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Nonprofit Money, You Don’t Manage it Alone with Chyla Graham</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofit-money-you-dont-manage-it-alone-with-chyla-graham</link>
      <description>Nonprofit Money, You Don’t Manage it Alone with Chyla Graham
  
 Remembering the Enron and Worldcom scandals, Chyla Graham never wants to see a nonprofit in their place. She’s adamant that financial transparency is vital to a healthy organizations and serves nonprofits so they understand what’s happening with their money, feel more confidently speaking about money, and can ask for the support they need.
 Managing the finances isn’t just the job of the finance team. It’s a team effort from the board to the staff and volunteers. How successful it is starts at the top. With an engaged treasurer who sees the mission and is willing and able to go the distance and push your organization to do better, your organization is stronger and communicates more effectively with your donors.
 For More Information go HERE
  
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 11 Aug 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/778fcfc8-b329-11eb-9f0f-af971df17858/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Nonprofit  Financial Management and Planning</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Nonprofit Money, You Don’t Manage it Alone with Chyla Graham
  
 Remembering the Enron and Worldcom scandals, Chyla Graham never wants to see a nonprofit in their place. She’s adamant that financial transparency is vital to a healthy organizations and serves nonprofits so they understand what’s happening with their money, feel more confidently speaking about money, and can ask for the support they need.
 Managing the finances isn’t just the job of the finance team. It’s a team effort from the board to the staff and volunteers. How successful it is starts at the top. With an engaged treasurer who sees the mission and is willing and able to go the distance and push your organization to do better, your organization is stronger and communicates more effectively with your donors.
 For More Information go HERE
  
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Nonprofit Money, You Don’t Manage it Alone with Chyla Graham</strong></h1> <p> </p> <p>Remembering the Enron and Worldcom scandals, <strong>Chyla Graham </strong>never wants to see a nonprofit in their place. She’s adamant that financial transparency is vital to a healthy organizations and serves nonprofits so they understand what’s happening with their money, feel more confidently speaking about money, and can ask for the support they need.</p> <p>Managing the finances isn’t just the job of the finance team. It’s a team effort from the board to the staff and volunteers. How successful it is starts at the top. With an engaged treasurer who sees the mission and is willing and able to go the distance and push your organization to do better, your organization is stronger and communicates more effectively with your donors.</p> <p>For More Information go <a href="http://www.cnrgaccountingadvisory.com/">HERE</a></p> <p> </p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3320</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Sharing Your Story can Change the World</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/sharing-your-story-can-change-the-world</link>
      <description>Sharing Your Story can Change the World: 
 How to tell your np story that will open pocketbooksInterview with Erin Loman Jeck
 Erin Loman Jeck is CEO of Transformational Speakers Agency, Executive Speaking Coach, TEDx Speaking Coach, and the Creator of Speakers Success Summit.
 This highly sought after business coach, transitioned to opening her own Speakers Agency and she is the leading authority on assisting thriving purpose-driven entrepreneurs in how to monetize their message, make an impact, influence change, and inspire action in others.
 Erin’s approach to speaking is unique and powerful, she utilizes the Psychology of Connection to illustrate how you can unlock any audience’s trust and rapport, which leaves them feeling better about themselves and are challenged to adopt your new idea or perspective. Leaders seek her out to learn how to be more powerful in their influence, especially in the C-Suite of organizations. If you are looking for a proven professional who is an impactful and influential trainer to lead your team, organization, executives to learn her techniques- look no further. Erin’s clients rave about the powerful impact she has made on them and her ability to help then find the subtle nuances that can take your influence and speaking to the next level.
 Audiences have left feeling refreshed, energized and eager to get started with their newfound strategies in their compelling communication.
 I teach NP leaders how to communicate the needs and the stories of the success in a way that is compelling and has donors opening their wallets and giving more. I teach them how to speak in the language of the donors so they really get conversions from their events, conversations, and publicity. I have sat on 5 NP boards over the past 10 years, and speak business and NP, I have been a translator many times at the board table, because I have worked as a social worker and board member- I understand both sides. Most of the time they are saying the same things, but using different language, so they think the other side doesn’t understand what they are talking about.
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 04 Aug 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
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      <itunes:subtitle>How to tell your np story that will open pocketbooks  Interview with Erin Loman Jeck</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Sharing Your Story can Change the World: 
 How to tell your np story that will open pocketbooksInterview with Erin Loman Jeck
 Erin Loman Jeck is CEO of Transformational Speakers Agency, Executive Speaking Coach, TEDx Speaking Coach, and the Creator of Speakers Success Summit.
 This highly sought after business coach, transitioned to opening her own Speakers Agency and she is the leading authority on assisting thriving purpose-driven entrepreneurs in how to monetize their message, make an impact, influence change, and inspire action in others.
 Erin’s approach to speaking is unique and powerful, she utilizes the Psychology of Connection to illustrate how you can unlock any audience’s trust and rapport, which leaves them feeling better about themselves and are challenged to adopt your new idea or perspective. Leaders seek her out to learn how to be more powerful in their influence, especially in the C-Suite of organizations. If you are looking for a proven professional who is an impactful and influential trainer to lead your team, organization, executives to learn her techniques- look no further. Erin’s clients rave about the powerful impact she has made on them and her ability to help then find the subtle nuances that can take your influence and speaking to the next level.
 Audiences have left feeling refreshed, energized and eager to get started with their newfound strategies in their compelling communication.
 I teach NP leaders how to communicate the needs and the stories of the success in a way that is compelling and has donors opening their wallets and giving more. I teach them how to speak in the language of the donors so they really get conversions from their events, conversations, and publicity. I have sat on 5 NP boards over the past 10 years, and speak business and NP, I have been a translator many times at the board table, because I have worked as a social worker and board member- I understand both sides. Most of the time they are saying the same things, but using different language, so they think the other side doesn’t understand what they are talking about.
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Sharing Your Story can Change the World: </strong></p> <p><strong>How to tell your np story that will open pocketbooks<br></strong><strong>Interview with Erin Loman Jeck</strong></p> <p>Erin Loman Jeck is CEO of Transformational Speakers Agency, Executive Speaking Coach, TEDx Speaking Coach, and the Creator of Speakers Success Summit.</p> <p>This highly sought after business coach, transitioned to opening her own Speakers Agency and she is the leading authority on assisting thriving purpose-driven entrepreneurs in how to monetize their message, make an impact, influence change, and inspire action in others.</p> <p>Erin’s approach to speaking is unique and powerful, she utilizes the Psychology of Connection to illustrate how you can unlock any audience’s trust and rapport, which leaves them feeling better about themselves and are challenged to adopt your new idea or perspective. Leaders seek her out to learn how to be more powerful in their influence, especially in the C-Suite of organizations. If you are looking for a proven professional who is an impactful and influential trainer to lead your team, organization, executives to learn her techniques- look no further. Erin’s clients rave about the powerful impact she has made on them and her ability to help then find the subtle nuances that can take your influence and speaking to the next level.</p> <p>Audiences have left feeling refreshed, energized and eager to get started with their newfound strategies in their compelling communication.</p> <p>I teach NP leaders how to communicate the needs and the stories of the success in a way that is compelling and has donors opening their wallets and giving more. I teach them how to speak in the language of the donors so they really get conversions from their events, conversations, and publicity. I have sat on 5 NP boards over the past 10 years, and speak business and NP, I have been a translator many times at the board table, because I have worked as a social worker and board member- I understand both sides. Most of the time they are saying the same things, but using different language, so they think the other side doesn’t understand what they are talking about.</p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>The Tug of War with Time: How to Gain Control Of Your Life (Archive)</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-tug-of-war-with-time-how-to-gain-control-of-your-life</link>
      <description>NPC Interview with Penny Zenker
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to the Nonprofit Chat tonight. We have a really, really, really good topic tonight. My co-host on these has been Russell David Dennis. I’m Hugh McPherson Ballou. We have a good time on these, and we introduce great things to the world by introducing great people who have great products and services. We have a long time friend of ours tonight, Penny Zenker. Russ is carrying the heavy weight tonight. I am waiting in an airport to board a plane, so I will be a passive participant in this. We are recording on the cloud. This is going to be part of our Nonprofit Exchange podcast, Penny. This nonprofit chat is something we broadcast out to folks every Tuesday at 7. Russell, would you cue up the introduction and let Penny talk a little bit about herself as well?
 Russell Dennis: Thank you, Hugh, and welcome, Penny. It’s always a pleasure to see you. It’s been a good while. Tonight, ladies and gentlemen, we have Penny Zenker. Penny is a strategic business coach and trainer. She coaches business leaders and entrepreneurs. She is the author of the best-selling book The Productivity Zone: Stop the Tug of War with Time. Penny leverages her personal experiences building up and later selling a multi-million-dollar business, as a senior executive at one of the world’s largest market research companies, and working with business leaders all over the world as a Tony Robbins business coach. Penny’s proven and practical approaches to help people get results quickly. Time is something that is just difficult to get more of. It’s the one thing we can’t get more of. Penny, tell everybody about yourself today. Good to see ya.
 Penny Zenker: Good to see you, too, Russell and Hugh. Always good to be here with you guys. Thank you for having me here. As you cued it up, where some of my experience and background is, Hugh earlier said, “How are you qualified? What makes you the time management expert or productivity expert?” Maybe it’s because I have more challenges than most people, I don’t know. No.
 As you heard in the introduction, I started my own technology business back when I was 25. Nobody knows better about time management challenges than an entrepreneur starting off in their business, wearing all the different hats and playing all the different roles. I have seen it from an entrepreneur’s perspective. Then I went to work for a big company, organized very differently. At the same time, when I left my company and I sold it, I thought, Now I am going to go work 9-5. It’s going to be so easy. I am going to take over this role. That’s not what it was at all. Instead of being the CTO of the organization, I took my boss’s job in a reorganization, and then I was responsible for multiple countries, speaking a foreign language, and reorganizing the organization. I have never experienced such a challenge, which isn’t time. At that moment, I thought it was a time management challenge. How can I do all this?
 What I’d love to briefly share is a story that shifted the way I thought about time management forever. And hopefully some of our discussion will really be around that. When I took over this position at the market research company, and I was overwhelmed and I was questioning myself if I even had the skills and what was needed to do this job because it was so much different and bigger than what I had ever had before.
 It’s when we get overwhelmed, we think we get overloaded, but we are really just overwhelmed. There is a difference between that. One has to do with mental capacity, where the other one is more of a time capacity issue or a physical capacity issue.
 I went into my boss’s office and said, “Peter, I can’t do this. I don’t think I am the right person for this position.” I shared with him what my challenges were. He sat there patiently, like a cool leader, listening. Then he said, “Listen. I hired you to make decisions. What you do with the rest of your time is up to you.”
 Think about that.
 Hugh: That is profound.
 Penny: My reaction was at first, “Easy for you to say.” But then I thought about that, and it was so simple. As you said, Hugh, it is so profound. It really made me rethink the way that I looked at everything because it’s true. It shifted my mindset from that point forward to being much more of a strategic thinker than a tactical thinker. When we are in time management, then we are tactically thinking. We need to pull ourselves away and be more strategic. Go ahead, Hugh.
 Hugh: People in leadership positions have tremendous impact. What that person said to you, “I pay you to make decisions,” that is amazing. Penny was talking about her journey of being able to think strategically. Penny, that was profound. Talk about it a bit more, and then we will get into some of the substance we want to talk about tonight.
 Penny: As I said, that was the base of me shifting my thinking around time. As I got further into that organization, I was able to work with people in various divisions of that organization. Then I went to work with Tony Robbins as a strategic business coach for his organization, and I worked with people all over the world. I really helped them to—I think you said it earlier, Russ—get out of your own way. I helped them to get out of their own way. If cash flow is the number one reason why businesses go out of business… *technical difficulties*
 As I started to work with Tony Robbins as a strategic business coach there, the goal was to help companies grow their businesses, double their business and to grow exponentially. They say that the number one reason businesses go out of business is cash flow. The number two reason has to be because of their time management. They would have the cash flow if they managed their time and thought more strategically about what they need to do.
 It doesn’t matter what culture or what country. I found myself working on the same set of skills first and foremost with people all over the world to help them to manage the way that they think around time management and where they focus and how they prioritize, to get them to think more strategically about what they are doing as opposed to tactically. Then we could implement the strategies and things like that. But it’s really about shifting the perspective around time and being more of a strategic thinker around that than a tactical thinker.
 Hugh: What is your book about? Stop the Tug of War with Time. We used that in our teaser that we sent everybody earlier.
 Penny: I saw that. I think it’s the common struggle that people feel is, “I wish I just had more time.” It’s that tug of war with time. What I did was all the people I have worked with around the world, I thought, How can I bring this to a larger number of people than just those few people I have been able to work with one on one? I really want to make a much bigger impact. The way to do that is either through written word, or a video series that I do. I also have a piece of software that goes with this.
 It really describes what I call the productivity zone. When you are in the zone, you are focused on ten core drivers that help you to think and act more strategically, like I said about the decision-making aspect. What are the aspects that go into having us be more strategic about how we show up for our time?
 There is a framework for the productivity zone. What is in the zone is these ten drivers. What is out of the zone is perfectionism and procrastination. We were talking earlier, Russ, before the show started, about how that is where resistance is. We create resistance through procrastination because mentally we are not interested, we are not clear on what we want to do, we are not motivated, and we are afraid of what is on the other side. We have all this resistance that sits outside, and that is where the stress is.
 Hugh: Stress? Stress? We don’t have stress. So, Penny, Russ has written books, I have written books. My first book, I outlined it. I started on the chapter “Getting Things Done.” It was about what you are talking about, planning, that whole space. Once I wrote it, it really helped me do the rest of the book, and it gave me this sense of accountability. Okay, well you said it, now you gotta do it. Writing the book and thinking about being productive, you have to plan it and make use of the time available. Was there a learning experience for you in going through that writing the book process?
 Penny: There were a lot of learning experiences as I’m sure you guys have had, too. Some of the things that helped me were principles I explained in the book. For instance, the number one principle is to understand how to motivate yourself and to be in the right space of motivation. When you are really motivated, everything else disappears, and you get things done. One of the things I did first was create the cover of my book, like way before it was even started. I had the cover, so I was motivated to see that it was already done; it was just filling in the pages. That really motivated me and inspired me as I saw it up on my desk and know that it was just about filling it in.
 Mine came pretty easily structured. Once you have an outline, and because I am talking about the ten drivers, it was pretty easy because each driver was then a chapter. As soon as I had that, it was clear. And how I wanted to format it. I wanted to have a few callouts. I wanted to have a summary at the end so people could have the top three takeaways of each chapter. And I wanted to have a personal story at the beginning of each chapter. Once I defined the outline and that format, it was really easy to put things in. Easier than people think, especially today with the whole dictate thing. I love that function.
 Hugh: I love Siri. I think I sleep with her. She understands me and makes my Southern into real language.
 You talked about your ten. I am asking some questions because Russ will do the heavy lifting after I go through security here at the airport. What are those ten? Can you outline those? Russ knows you and has done some research, and he has some profound questions to lay on you. We also have some questions that you and I devised a while back that are launching out there on Facebook and Twitter for people to respond to, and we will talk about those in the interview, too. What are those ten? PZ. Those are your initials.
 Penny: I know, isn’t that funny? I realized that afterwards. Productivity Zone and Penny Zenker, PZ.
 Russ: Unconscious titling going on.
 Hugh: What are those ten?
 Penny: I will go through them real quickly. Obviously there is meat below it. The key is understanding how to twist them and make them work for you in the moment. Number one is motivation. Number two is self-talk. Number three is focus. Number four is physiology or self-care. I am going to do them in blocks. Those four together make up what I call Championship Psychcology. It’s where we manage our energy. That is really the determination of what you get done in that time; it’s because how you show up for that time. Those are the four initial drivers: about how we manage our energy and psychology.
 Then we go into Winning Strategies. That is the planning, getting that outline together. It’s the process, creating systems, automating things. And then prioritization, knowing what comes first, what’s important.
 Then we get into what makes it sustainable. Now we have our psychology and approach. What do we need to do to keep this going? That would be progress. That’s the next one. Understanding measurement, what it is that we are measuring. Then lastly is being proactive in staying ahead of the curve.
 I know that is a total quick run-through, and maybe we will touch on a few more in detail. Obviously there is another resource if people want it. There is a chapter for each one of those in the book and software that goes along with that.
 Hugh: I muted myself because there was background noise. We have people joining us on Facebook and the webcast. Too bad about the technical problems before. I watched Frank Kern do a webcast for thousands of people, and they had a few snafus today. It happens.
 We are talking to Penny Zenker, author of The Productivity Zone: Stop the Tug of War with Time. I love it when people say they are going to manage time. You can’t manage time; it’s going to go by anyway. What are we managing?
 Penny: We are managing those three elements. We are managing our energy, which is what I say mostly. It’s how to show up for the time. Let’s face it: Most people know what to do, but they just don’t do it. That’s why I get into the procrastination and perfectionism; there is that resistance because there is something else going on there, and it’s all up here. That’s the biggest thing.
 Hugh: Oh my word, it’s the mental trap.
 Penny: It is.
 Hugh: We have David Gruder next week. He is going to talk more about our mind. We had a chat with him a couple months ago about the shadow inside. There is a lot of synergy to what you are talking about, and what several of our presenters are talking about. What you are presenting is a really good system, wow. We don’t sell things on this show, but if people wanted the book, where would they find it?
 Penny: It’s available on Amazon. They can get it on Amazon. Look up The Productivity Zone or Penny Zenker, and they can find it there. There is a link I can put up if anybody is interested in taking the assessment, which enables them to get a piece of software that helps them actually to rate themselves and do some self-coaching, identify their strengths and weaknesses, and set some actions around these ten core drivers, too.
 Hugh: If you will send that to us, we will put that in the notes for the Nonprofit Chat and the podcast. We’re pushing 15,000 listeners on the podcast, so somebody likes what we’re doing. We want to make sure they have access to whatever you mention, so if you mention any links, make sure we have them.
 Russell, I know you’re itching to get in here. I am going to go through security as you guys are doing the next bit, and I will see you on the other side.
 Russ: Outstanding. I am looking through this. I am now the owner of your book.
 Penny: Thank you.
 Russ: Technology is good for consuming things, not necessarily good for the checking account. The impulse. I love the idea of the issue of time. They look at it as the enemy. I have heard this saying that time is a gift, not the enemy.
 Penny: Right, that’s a good statement.
 Russ: Yes, we can get into some of the questions that we have for the week. Our first question is: What is the biggest time vampire of your life?
 Penny: Right. I want everybody to think about this question and answer it for themselves. Hopefully, for those who are joining us on Facebook, post what it is. Get really clear on what the biggest time vampire is. For me, my biggest time vampire is my kids. I love them, and of course I want to be flexible to be there. But they miss the bus, and then I have to drive them to school. Whatever I have planned is out the door. Or I have to pick them up from school because they missed the bus, or they have soccer practice. I do a lot of organization to get them to where they need to go and things like that. Things pop up all the time. Somebody is sick. I will include the dog in that. The dog has a problem, and I have to take care of that. We all have time vampires.
 What that means to me is something that we can or can’t control. There are things outside of our control that happen that take our time up. But we also have to think about which part is within our control. There is a piece of it that we can anticipate what kinds of things could come up, and we can set things in place, be proactive, so we don’t have that. In the morning, if I could make sure to wake my kids an extra 15 minutes early, then I can avoid most of the challenges of them being late, unless it is a real exception.
 I want people to take ownership of the time vampires. It’s like that person that calls and you know every time that person calls they want to talk to you for an hour. You can allow that person to be that time vampire because you don’t have an hour to give them. Or you can say, “Hey, what’s up? I only have ten minutes.” If you qualify yourself in the beginning, not in a rude way, but in a good way, “Love to talk to you. That’s why I picked up. But I only have a couple minutes.” When you do things like that, then you can help to mitigate those time vampires.
 Russ: I think that can create conflicts for people because they say, “What if something happens that is out of my control?” It’s in here. It’s part of the process; we’re talking about planning. That involves contingencies. You have to have a contingency plan. Entrepreneurs, we are eternal optimists. Everything usually takes two to three times more money, time, and effort than we planned for because we plan for everything to go well. I think that’s a pretty common trap.
 Penny: What is your vampire, Russ?
 Russ: My vampire- I suffer from what I call S to the third power. Shiny Stuff Syndrome. I have to be very careful. I do a lot of communicating online, and I find myself in social media a whole lot because I am writing, posting, responding to people. Sometimes I have writing and other projects to do, so I need to back out of that so I can prepare for my meetings with clients and other things. That can be a real vampire, whether it’s social media or email. There are apps out there you can get that will squawk at you or tell you to get out of there so you don’t get stuck in social media or other things. It’s really easy to get stuck in activities that don’t produce revenue or results.
 With the coaching, for you, I know you work with a lot of different people. What are some of the more common vampires that the people you work with talk about?
 Penny: One of them you just mentioned: social media is a big one. Different types of office distractions are what people talk about. These open office environments that they are in. Now the studies have just come out to show they really are killing our productivity. That is why people prefer to work at home because they get stuff done at home. Often, when I go in and do workshops in organizations, they won’t talk about this with each other, but in a safe space around these drivers, they are able to talk about the distractions of, “Hey, you know, my desk is closer to the kitchen area, so everybody stops to talk to me at my desk.” They don’t get stuff done. There are those common things. There is the telephone ringing. They pick up their phone because it might be a client. They are constantly binging with their emails and things like that that are interrupting them. Depending on the office environment, there are a ton of different ways that our times can be taken.
 Russ: There are times I turn the telephone off or let voicemail pick up. My phone won’t explode at my desk if I don’t pick it up. For the most critical things, I think it’s important to focus on those.
 Productivity zone, everybody’s productivity zone, is that a moving target? Is that different for everybody?
 Penny: It is. We’re not machines. We’re not going to be calculating how productive we are by widgets. It’s not like we produce ten widgets and have a productive day. We need to be able to feel in control. When we feel stressed, then you’re not in the zone. You need to have some semblance of feeling like you’re in control. I don’t like the word “balance” because what does that mean? It’s like a plane that is 90% of the time correcting all the time. It’s never really on path. Maybe it’s being in harmony. Being able to feel good about what you have accomplished and knowing you are moving forward on those things that are most important. The key thing about the zone is is that you can use any of these core drivers to get back in the zone.
 When you get distracted, you have one of those vampires, you can turn off your social media. People just don’t do that. Being more conscious of what helps you to be more productive, and then putting things in place to support you—for example, I go to a personal trainer because I know I won’t go otherwise. I want to be healthy, I want to stay fit and strong, and I know that it’s important to my energy levels and my whole productivity. So I have to force myself by paying somebody to go and work with them. That’s just the way it is. We have to put things in place so we know we’re not living and reaching the things we want to reach. If we are not able to do it for ourselves, then we need to put something else in place, some other form of accountability to help us.
 Russ: Accountability is where it’s at, for sure. I have an accountability coach that I speak with every week. That has been marvelous for me. There are other people here at my office, and we keep each other on task with different projects. Accountability is huge for helping stay productive.
 Penny: Absolutely. And that is why I created that software. Not everybody can afford a coach. I realize that. Having a coach in some instances can be outside of a person’s budget, so I wanted to have something that would give them some accountability. They could come back to the tool on a weekly basis, assess where they are, and get that accountability coaching because it is key.
 Hugh: Penny, our primary audience here are clergy or nonprofit executives and people who work on a very limited budget. That would be an important gift for them. You have been to my workshop in Philly, and Russell has been to two of them. You both presented. It’s great when you have people present who do better than you do in your own workshop. I feel really fortunate having you two guys around me.
 In that workshop, if you remember, I ask people what the topics they wanted to deal with most are. The number one in every location was leader burnout. I think that has to do with what you are talking about. It’s not really having that structure. I asked about managing time, which we don’t; we manage selves.
 Speak about how the anxiety and this stuff going unbridled, not having accountability, not having a plan, not being productive. How does that contribute to us being burned out?
 Penny: Burnout is the ultimate stress outside of the zone. It’s gotten to a point where you are not doing anything about it, and you are just going on until- it’s a stacking effect. Then it gets to the point where physically some people have adrenal issues because they really burn out in the context of mentally and physically.
 I believe that the things that are most important is for them to recognize and- Here is the challenge. Most people say they don’t have the time. They don’t have the time to invest in making sure they are not getting enough exercise and moving their body. They don’t have enough time to get enough sleep. They don’t have enough time for these different things, so they just keep going like the Energizer Bunny until they burn out. The key thing is to take a step back as soon as possible on a regular basis and say, “What’s working and what’s not working? Where must I make the time?” Again, I go to a trainer because I must make that time and because I know it is going to feed my energy and everything else. I know that my brain is like everyone else’s where I say I don’t have the time for that. I have projects I need to move forward on. These people in these nonprofits, they have a big responsibility and a big passion. Sometimes that passion can burn you out because you don’t have harmony with the rest of the areas in your life. It’s taking a step back and getting that strategic holistic look at what is going on so that they can focus their time and energy in the right places.
 One other quick thing is: A good question for those people to ask themselves: What is it costing you? Sometimes we just keep going, but if they really think about what it’s costing them, it may be costing them volunteers and people on their team because they are not able to communicate properly. They are not able to lead their team anymore when they are in that stressful state because that energy is transferred. They might be losing possible funding. They might be destroying their relationships with their family. Any of us, if we think about what it’s costing us, then it can create some greater motivation. We are one hundred times more motivated by pain than we are by pleasure. Really to connect to that and understand this is how it’s not serving them, and then it will create some action.
 Hugh: Russ, maybe you get this, too, but I hear that often. I don’t have time to write goals. I don’t have time to make a plan. Well, you have time to really upset your whole board and your staff because you are not moving in a step-forward manner, and they don’t know where to play. I would classify that as an excuse, not a reason.
 Penny: And the excuse comes from fear. I tell people all the time to write down the excuses why and where you are procrastinating. Everything around perfectionism, too. Why are you working to death? What are your excuses? I love that. Shine a light on those excuses so you can see what it really means.
 Hugh: I wouldn’t be a procrastinator if I ever got around to it.
 Russ: That brings us to that second question, which is: What do you procrastinate around? My Kryptonite is the telephone. I need more phone conversations because I talk to people one on one. When I talk to them, that is how I get to know them and see what they are doing. I can set some time to make some sales calls. I find myself doing other things, whether it is a broadcast or writing something. It’s really important. My friend Suzy Prudden says that my mind needs a telephone.
 What are some things that you procrastinated around and other things that a lot of people that you work with find themselves procrastinating around?
 Penny: Isn’t it funny how we procrastinate on the things that are most important? People find this hard to believe about me, but- I do a lot of public speaking. One of the things I procrastinate on is preparing for my speeches. I don’t mean structuring out the slides or anything like that, but the actual preparation. Recently, I did a TedX for Penn State in Erie, and that was the hardest thing for me: set aside time to practice. I kept finding other things to do instead of practicing. Then I had to go back to that accountability. I had to invite people to my house, and I had to burn the boats. I had to do things that meant I had no way out. People were coming, and I had to practice.
 I see a lot of people procrastinating on sales calls because of a fear of rejection, because they don’t see themselves as a salesperson. They will procrastinate on asking people for referrals because they feel like if a person appreciated their service, they will just give me the referral. That’s not true. People are just too busy to think about you, so you have to remind them.
 Russ: That’s true. I’m my favorite subject. I’m all I think about.
 Penny: The administrative paperwork, that is another thing to procrastinate on. Anything that requires organization. Cleaning their desk. Getting through their email. I have had CEOs tell me they have had 5,000 unread emails in their inbox. That is ridiculous. Someone else told me they had 200 voicemails. Okay.
 Hugh: I don’t think I’ll tell you how many emails I have.
 Penny: Unread?
 Hugh: Everything is in spam, and I just don’t go there.
 Penny: That’s different. If it’s spam, that’s something else. You can filter things into different places, but this was in their inbox. The first thing that you do is take everything that comes into your inbox and you filter out all that spam. Only good quality content comes to your inbox.
 Hugh: I think the wisdom is being able to set some priorities on that. Excuse me, Russ, I interrupted you.
 Russ: As far as that email inbox goes, I have to clean out the spam first and quickly so that I can scan through for the important things. Filing it, I don’t always file it, but I have to go through that inbox with the most current stuff and get it out of there. I do that at night before I go to bed sometimes because I get a lot. It’s like delete, delete, unsubscribe, unsubscribe. Even if you sign up for a free report or some valuable information, what happens is those folks email you every day.
 Penny: There are some good systems out there that help you to remove those.
 Hugh: I’d love to talk about that. We keep adding things. We add email, text, cell phone, but we don’t take anything away.
 Penny: That’s true.
 Hugh: Are we up to our third question yet?
 Russ: Yeah, we are. Penny, how do you prioritize your work? Another portion to that is how do you define what is urgent? I have trouble with that. Sometimes I have to back up, look at what is most important, and take things off the list.
 Penny: Totally. I find that is one of the biggest challenges people have. I am pretty good at that myself, but I find that a lot of people get- Look at the nature of an entrepreneur. We are born with a certain sense of urgency. It’s a gift and a curse at the same time. We have to respond quickly because that is just in our nature. A potential client calls, so we have to get back to them. It takes real discipline to be able to really define and say what is really urgent. Is it really urgent that I get back to this person or that I check my email—I forget what the latest statistic is—130 times a day? It’s ridiculous. Don’t quote me on that, but the number is a ridiculous number of how many times people check their email. It’s making planning a priority. A lot of these drivers are intertwined. I pulled them out so we can get some awareness out of them, but in setting priority, we need to understand that balance between what is important. To me, what is important is strategic. I brought that up in the very beginning. My whole mindset works around what is strategic and how we can think and act more strategically. Thank you, Peter Hoffer, for that, my mentor who taught me that. So I am always thinking, Is this going to further my most important goals? And that is how I stay. I try to do those things first. I am very clear on my list of things that needs to be done that those are the most important. It will be my multiplier in my long-term strategy. I call it having the multiplier mindset so that I know I am working on my multiplier.
 Russ: Okay.
 Penny: And then to be able to look at the things that are urgent but not as important. How do you handle those? Can you delegate some of those? Can you automate some of those? Can you be proactive so that they don’t show up any more?
 Hugh: Comment on two things. There is a book by Hummel called Tyranny of the Urgent. Do you know that book?
 Penny: I don’t know that book, but it sounds good.
 Hugh: The other one is Covey talks about the quadrants. Urgent, important, not important, not urgent. And how we segment our work. If we ignore stuff, then the not important becomes urgent, and there is the tyranny.
 Penny: Yes, yes. The Covey matrix is called the Eisenhower matrix. I like to have people use that to build awareness as to what they are doing throughout the day. If we took that matrix and they just identified at the end of the day what percentage of the day did you spend in each quadrant, it gives you some awareness. As you start to build your task list, you can look at those quadrants. Which of those things are from the important quadrant? Which of them are in the urgent quadrant? And so forth. It gives you a greater awareness.
 It’s almost like when people are asked to do a food diary because they need to have greater awareness as to what they are eating. To most people, it sounds ridiculous. I know what I am eating. If you have to write it down, it gives you a different level of clarity than just having it in your head. Oh my goodness, I only had one glass of water the whole day, and I am supposed to have had eight. Did I really have five chocolate chip cookies and that carrot cake? Oh, I thought that was yesterday. That was today. Did I really have eight cups of coffee? Oh, I did. When you have to write it down, it’s a rude awakening.
 it’s the same thing if you look and really log what you are doing with your time, it’s a rude awakening. I have had some really big Ahas in working with people and having them see that so they could clearly from that point decide what I can delegate. They could clean the situation up, but they have to recognize it fully first.
 Hugh: Absolutely. In one of John Maxwell’s books, he sits down in his thinking chair at the end of every day. He spends fifteen minutes thinking about where the time got lost and making notes as to what he can do better. There are affirmations and corrections. I suggest to clients I work with who have a similar pattern. We do what we call daily valuable deliverables, something that is a baby step that leads us to a bigger plan. It’s a daily discipline.
 I am of the opinion that we learn from ourselves. You have referred to some of these things during this interview. Writing down what you eat, we are what we eat, and we are also what we think and we are what we do. That is a good idea. Write it down and look at it. That is some of the same discipline as writing down your food. If you feel bad, it might be what you ate, but it might be how you created some stress in your stomach because you didn’t plan your day and then work in the plan. Am I rambling, or am I hearing what you’re saying?
 Penny: Absolutely. You are picking up what I am putting down. Yes.
 Russ: Writing things down is a question of accountability. Once you have it on paper, it’s real. Saying things to my accountability coach just adds to that. You know what surprises me is how much better some things sound in my head than when I am telling somebody else or writing them down.
 Penny: We can lie to ourselves when it is in our head. When we get it on paper, it’s hard to lie to ourselves. That is why I like to have people get it on paper.
 There is another exercise I have people do around distractions. The reason we are not getting to what is important is all of these excuses and distractions. I have them track their distractions and categorize them. I have a link that people could go to to download that worksheet.
 Russ: That is what I need for my Shiny Stuff Syndrome.
 Penny: Here is the thing. Most people will download the sheet—and you know you are one of them—and you won’t do anything with it. You won’t actually take the few minutes that it takes to write things down. That is why we don’t get results. We don’t have the discipline and the mental capacity to use the tools that we are given. Again, it comes back to the mental side. Why is it important? Get connected to how much more you can do. Get connected to how much more relaxed you would be if you could just remove some of these things.
 Hugh: Penny, when you do that, you find you have more free time because you really put things in order and you eliminate the things you shouldn’t be doing.
 Penny: Right? How awesome is that?
 Russ: One of the things in what you were saying I noticed about myself over the years is I would find myself learning more things. As I got overwhelmed, I picked up this tool or that tool. There is remarkable stuff out there. Next thing you know, I have all of these tools, and I am sitting there trying to think, How am I going to juggle things, manage ‘em, make ‘em work? I am overwhelmed because I have this pile of tools, and my productivity is not where I want it to be. I am getting more and more tools and more and more stressed. Am I just so wacky that I am on my own planet?
 Penny: You’re like everyone. I think you said it, Hugh. It keeps being more and more and more, and nothing is going away. It comes back to the discipline of just saying… I don’t like to use a ton of tools for the same reason. There is too much. A) We have to get away from the “I need a new tool because it will fix everything.” All it does is start us back over, and two months later, we say, “This isn’t working. I need a new tool.” All the tools work. I guarantee you, all the tools work. It doesn’t matter what tool it is. If you use it consistently, it will work. It might not be perfect, but it will work.
 Hugh: I have a tool called a pen and paper.
 Penny: I would say go through your tools and remove most of them. It reminds me of an IT group I was working with. They wanted to bring in this document management system. It was all about choosing the tools. I said, “Hold on a second. If we are going to put in a new document management system, how are we going to use it?” First, let’s think strategically how we are going to organize ourselves versus what are the bells and whistles of the system that don’t matter. That is what we need to get back to. What do we really need to run our business? What is it that we are looking to do? What are the options available? Choose one of those tools and be committed enough to it to follow it through.
 Hugh: That is real discipline. I am going to let Russell take us out here. I am going to board a plane to Florida to go to CEO Space where it is not raining today. Penny, this is awesome stuff. Russell will take us to the end.
 Russ: Thanks, Hugh. Have a good trip. Give everybody my best down there.
 Penny: Me too.
 Russ: Let them know they are in my thoughts.
 It’s important: getting down and using a tool that is going to work. I have a specific set of things that I like. I use Evernote. I do everything in Evernote. Funny enough, it was a tool you introduced me to.
 Penny: I like Evernote, too.
 Russ: I have clients that use the Microsoft suite. They use Google, and they don’t want to do anything different. That is how I got a pile of tools. That doesn’t always work. But I stick to Evernote; that is really my tool. Even if I am using their platform, I organize things with Evernote.
 Penny: Perfect. Then you have a system that works for you.
 Russ: I have what works for me. I love it. I wish I could convince everybody that I am right and they should use mine, but that is crazy. Everybody works a little differently.
 Penny: Everybody does. There are going to be different tools that are for some and other tools that are better for us.
 Russ: You mentioned it very early in the show, but I’d like to spend a little bit of time on it. Our fourth question is talking about the difference between being overwhelmed and overloaded, and how we can separate those and manage each of them.
 Penny: Like I said earlier, most people think they are overloaded. They get to this thing where I am at capacity and I can’t take on any more. I even hear myself say, “I don’t have the time.” The truth is I am not being resourceful enough to find ways to make it happen. Either the motivation isn’t high enough, or I have some kind of fear of what it is going to take away from me. So I get overwhelmed with all the things I have to think about. A lot of the times, what I am working with people around is how to get off overwhelm. Make a plan. Don’t keep everything in your head. Go back to how you prioritize things. People get stuck because everything is a priority. Then they go into overwhelm. Sound familiar? We have all been there.
 Russ: I have a mantra for myself that I came up with. This is a processor, not a storage unit.
 Penny: That’s good. I like that.
 Russ: I try to record things and organize them in a way that I can come back to them later. That is why I love Evernote. There is that emotional component. Overload is having too many things to do. With leaders, they can create that by overfunctioning or taking on too many things. How have you seen that impact some of the people you are working with, as far as having an overfunctioning leader and underfunctioning employees?
 Penny: Typically, I find that when there is an overfunctioning leader, the employees are underfunctioning. I call that the accountability effect. The leader feels nobody is accountable, and it’s really because they are in their perfectionist, micro-management mode. They are trying to do everything; therefore, the others kind of get apathy, like the leader will do it anyway. That is often what I see. The people who are taking on, who are in that perfectionist stage, meaning they can’t lose control of something, need to be overloaded. In most cases, they have teams or potential resources they could reach out to to be able to help them to delegate, but they don’t want to delegate because they do it better, or the other person doesn’t know, so it would be easier for me to do it than to teach them. Again it’s a very tactical, short-term thinking versus how much time they could free themselves up over time so they can do the more strategic work. So I find that that is where the overfunctioning gets caught up.
 There are plenty of people. I am a single mom. I am involved – I have two kids who are somewhat coming into their teenage years, very active in sports, got a lot to organize with them. I run my own business, and I am involved in other community affairs and activities. And, and, and. You want to have a relationship. Part of it is spending time in our relationship. We manage all of these things in our lives. It doesn’t have to be an overload; it’s just how we approach it. It does come back to setting the priorities.
 Not every day are you going to get to everything that you feel is urgent and needs to be done. You need to have some criteria. We didn’t talk about that in terms of prioritizing, but you need to have some criteria about what determines what pops to the top of the list. When you get clear on what that criteria is, and it depends on the circumstances of your life, those criteria could be around values. Or if you are looking for sales opportunities, you can’t go after everything. You can overload yourself if you take on too big of a region. If you strategically approach it, you are being more resourceful, changing that overload, and not creating overwhelm. Does that make sense?
 Russ: Yes, breaking things down into smaller chunks helps me. I have three to five things, no more than five. Three things that I absolutely must get done. And then stick to that. Add more of course throughout the day. But the most important three is where I would look for myself. Where do you find the most resistance to people who are in that cycle?
 Penny: You just said the top three things. It’s the excuses. People say, I have more than five. I can’t do to the top three to five things. I have ten or twenty things, and there is no way around it. What I find is that most people are in an overwhelm place. What happens in our brain when we get stressed and in that overwhelm is that our brain starts not to work effectively. We go into flight or fight or freeze mode, which means we don’t have access to our logical decision-making mode. That makes us more anxious and more in that emotional space. The most important thing is to take a step back and to get a broader perspective. That is why I talk about the ten drivers so that people can take a step back and see where they are in all of them and which one is the biggest hindrance for you right now. Maybe it’s you don’t have the time so you don’t do any planning. Then you are in urgency mode so things fall apart, or you haven’t planned accurately so you need more resources than you thought, or it takes twice as long. You know what I’m saying. It’s really getting to take a step back and to be able to see it from a logical perspective.
 Russ: I think that is critical. Get that other perspective. That is where people like you and I and Roy, my accountability coach, come in. We get to cluster things, and we get overwhelmed. Somebody can bring an outside perspective. It could be an accountability buddy. Go out and hire a coach, or get an accountability buddy. This has been a marvelous hour. We have come down to our final couple of minutes. I am really looking forward to your book. What are some closing thoughts that you want to leave our audience with for themselves and for their teams?
 Penny: As a closing thought, what I would urge people to do is understand that it’s not about time. There have been studies at the University of Pennsylvania where they studied stress and time. Basically, the outcome was the people who were given back time weren’t any less stressed or happy than the people that they actually gave more to because it’s how you show up for your time. I would say look at how you are managing your energy, how you are showing up for the time. Look at your excuses. When you say I don’t have the time or whatever your excuses are, challenge them. Is it really true? What does that mean? I did this the other day. I heard myself say that I didn’t have the time, and I looked at it and said, “Wait, that means it’s not a priority for me.” Then I need to question myself as to why it’s not a priority. If it’s not a priority, get it off my calendar all together. By challenging ourselves, you can be your own coach. I’m not saying you don’t need a coach. Everybody should have a coach because it’s better to get the outside perspective. But when possible, be your own coach and challenge yourself in those excuses so that you can really get to the root of what is holding you back.
 Russ: Thank you. That is marvelous. Priorities change, and things change. There is a time to let go of things. Penny, I thank you very much for coming.
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      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2019 18:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/77c4dda8-b329-11eb-9f0f-e7068c2cace0/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Penny Zenker</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>NPC Interview with Penny Zenker
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to the Nonprofit Chat tonight. We have a really, really, really good topic tonight. My co-host on these has been Russell David Dennis. I’m Hugh McPherson Ballou. We have a good time on these, and we introduce great things to the world by introducing great people who have great products and services. We have a long time friend of ours tonight, Penny Zenker. Russ is carrying the heavy weight tonight. I am waiting in an airport to board a plane, so I will be a passive participant in this. We are recording on the cloud. This is going to be part of our Nonprofit Exchange podcast, Penny. This nonprofit chat is something we broadcast out to folks every Tuesday at 7. Russell, would you cue up the introduction and let Penny talk a little bit about herself as well?
 Russell Dennis: Thank you, Hugh, and welcome, Penny. It’s always a pleasure to see you. It’s been a good while. Tonight, ladies and gentlemen, we have Penny Zenker. Penny is a strategic business coach and trainer. She coaches business leaders and entrepreneurs. She is the author of the best-selling book The Productivity Zone: Stop the Tug of War with Time. Penny leverages her personal experiences building up and later selling a multi-million-dollar business, as a senior executive at one of the world’s largest market research companies, and working with business leaders all over the world as a Tony Robbins business coach. Penny’s proven and practical approaches to help people get results quickly. Time is something that is just difficult to get more of. It’s the one thing we can’t get more of. Penny, tell everybody about yourself today. Good to see ya.
 Penny Zenker: Good to see you, too, Russell and Hugh. Always good to be here with you guys. Thank you for having me here. As you cued it up, where some of my experience and background is, Hugh earlier said, “How are you qualified? What makes you the time management expert or productivity expert?” Maybe it’s because I have more challenges than most people, I don’t know. No.
 As you heard in the introduction, I started my own technology business back when I was 25. Nobody knows better about time management challenges than an entrepreneur starting off in their business, wearing all the different hats and playing all the different roles. I have seen it from an entrepreneur’s perspective. Then I went to work for a big company, organized very differently. At the same time, when I left my company and I sold it, I thought, Now I am going to go work 9-5. It’s going to be so easy. I am going to take over this role. That’s not what it was at all. Instead of being the CTO of the organization, I took my boss’s job in a reorganization, and then I was responsible for multiple countries, speaking a foreign language, and reorganizing the organization. I have never experienced such a challenge, which isn’t time. At that moment, I thought it was a time management challenge. How can I do all this?
 What I’d love to briefly share is a story that shifted the way I thought about time management forever. And hopefully some of our discussion will really be around that. When I took over this position at the market research company, and I was overwhelmed and I was questioning myself if I even had the skills and what was needed to do this job because it was so much different and bigger than what I had ever had before.
 It’s when we get overwhelmed, we think we get overloaded, but we are really just overwhelmed. There is a difference between that. One has to do with mental capacity, where the other one is more of a time capacity issue or a physical capacity issue.
 I went into my boss’s office and said, “Peter, I can’t do this. I don’t think I am the right person for this position.” I shared with him what my challenges were. He sat there patiently, like a cool leader, listening. Then he said, “Listen. I hired you to make decisions. What you do with the rest of your time is up to you.”
 Think about that.
 Hugh: That is profound.
 Penny: My reaction was at first, “Easy for you to say.” But then I thought about that, and it was so simple. As you said, Hugh, it is so profound. It really made me rethink the way that I looked at everything because it’s true. It shifted my mindset from that point forward to being much more of a strategic thinker than a tactical thinker. When we are in time management, then we are tactically thinking. We need to pull ourselves away and be more strategic. Go ahead, Hugh.
 Hugh: People in leadership positions have tremendous impact. What that person said to you, “I pay you to make decisions,” that is amazing. Penny was talking about her journey of being able to think strategically. Penny, that was profound. Talk about it a bit more, and then we will get into some of the substance we want to talk about tonight.
 Penny: As I said, that was the base of me shifting my thinking around time. As I got further into that organization, I was able to work with people in various divisions of that organization. Then I went to work with Tony Robbins as a strategic business coach for his organization, and I worked with people all over the world. I really helped them to—I think you said it earlier, Russ—get out of your own way. I helped them to get out of their own way. If cash flow is the number one reason why businesses go out of business… *technical difficulties*
 As I started to work with Tony Robbins as a strategic business coach there, the goal was to help companies grow their businesses, double their business and to grow exponentially. They say that the number one reason businesses go out of business is cash flow. The number two reason has to be because of their time management. They would have the cash flow if they managed their time and thought more strategically about what they need to do.
 It doesn’t matter what culture or what country. I found myself working on the same set of skills first and foremost with people all over the world to help them to manage the way that they think around time management and where they focus and how they prioritize, to get them to think more strategically about what they are doing as opposed to tactically. Then we could implement the strategies and things like that. But it’s really about shifting the perspective around time and being more of a strategic thinker around that than a tactical thinker.
 Hugh: What is your book about? Stop the Tug of War with Time. We used that in our teaser that we sent everybody earlier.
 Penny: I saw that. I think it’s the common struggle that people feel is, “I wish I just had more time.” It’s that tug of war with time. What I did was all the people I have worked with around the world, I thought, How can I bring this to a larger number of people than just those few people I have been able to work with one on one? I really want to make a much bigger impact. The way to do that is either through written word, or a video series that I do. I also have a piece of software that goes with this.
 It really describes what I call the productivity zone. When you are in the zone, you are focused on ten core drivers that help you to think and act more strategically, like I said about the decision-making aspect. What are the aspects that go into having us be more strategic about how we show up for our time?
 There is a framework for the productivity zone. What is in the zone is these ten drivers. What is out of the zone is perfectionism and procrastination. We were talking earlier, Russ, before the show started, about how that is where resistance is. We create resistance through procrastination because mentally we are not interested, we are not clear on what we want to do, we are not motivated, and we are afraid of what is on the other side. We have all this resistance that sits outside, and that is where the stress is.
 Hugh: Stress? Stress? We don’t have stress. So, Penny, Russ has written books, I have written books. My first book, I outlined it. I started on the chapter “Getting Things Done.” It was about what you are talking about, planning, that whole space. Once I wrote it, it really helped me do the rest of the book, and it gave me this sense of accountability. Okay, well you said it, now you gotta do it. Writing the book and thinking about being productive, you have to plan it and make use of the time available. Was there a learning experience for you in going through that writing the book process?
 Penny: There were a lot of learning experiences as I’m sure you guys have had, too. Some of the things that helped me were principles I explained in the book. For instance, the number one principle is to understand how to motivate yourself and to be in the right space of motivation. When you are really motivated, everything else disappears, and you get things done. One of the things I did first was create the cover of my book, like way before it was even started. I had the cover, so I was motivated to see that it was already done; it was just filling in the pages. That really motivated me and inspired me as I saw it up on my desk and know that it was just about filling it in.
 Mine came pretty easily structured. Once you have an outline, and because I am talking about the ten drivers, it was pretty easy because each driver was then a chapter. As soon as I had that, it was clear. And how I wanted to format it. I wanted to have a few callouts. I wanted to have a summary at the end so people could have the top three takeaways of each chapter. And I wanted to have a personal story at the beginning of each chapter. Once I defined the outline and that format, it was really easy to put things in. Easier than people think, especially today with the whole dictate thing. I love that function.
 Hugh: I love Siri. I think I sleep with her. She understands me and makes my Southern into real language.
 You talked about your ten. I am asking some questions because Russ will do the heavy lifting after I go through security here at the airport. What are those ten? Can you outline those? Russ knows you and has done some research, and he has some profound questions to lay on you. We also have some questions that you and I devised a while back that are launching out there on Facebook and Twitter for people to respond to, and we will talk about those in the interview, too. What are those ten? PZ. Those are your initials.
 Penny: I know, isn’t that funny? I realized that afterwards. Productivity Zone and Penny Zenker, PZ.
 Russ: Unconscious titling going on.
 Hugh: What are those ten?
 Penny: I will go through them real quickly. Obviously there is meat below it. The key is understanding how to twist them and make them work for you in the moment. Number one is motivation. Number two is self-talk. Number three is focus. Number four is physiology or self-care. I am going to do them in blocks. Those four together make up what I call Championship Psychcology. It’s where we manage our energy. That is really the determination of what you get done in that time; it’s because how you show up for that time. Those are the four initial drivers: about how we manage our energy and psychology.
 Then we go into Winning Strategies. That is the planning, getting that outline together. It’s the process, creating systems, automating things. And then prioritization, knowing what comes first, what’s important.
 Then we get into what makes it sustainable. Now we have our psychology and approach. What do we need to do to keep this going? That would be progress. That’s the next one. Understanding measurement, what it is that we are measuring. Then lastly is being proactive in staying ahead of the curve.
 I know that is a total quick run-through, and maybe we will touch on a few more in detail. Obviously there is another resource if people want it. There is a chapter for each one of those in the book and software that goes along with that.
 Hugh: I muted myself because there was background noise. We have people joining us on Facebook and the webcast. Too bad about the technical problems before. I watched Frank Kern do a webcast for thousands of people, and they had a few snafus today. It happens.
 We are talking to Penny Zenker, author of The Productivity Zone: Stop the Tug of War with Time. I love it when people say they are going to manage time. You can’t manage time; it’s going to go by anyway. What are we managing?
 Penny: We are managing those three elements. We are managing our energy, which is what I say mostly. It’s how to show up for the time. Let’s face it: Most people know what to do, but they just don’t do it. That’s why I get into the procrastination and perfectionism; there is that resistance because there is something else going on there, and it’s all up here. That’s the biggest thing.
 Hugh: Oh my word, it’s the mental trap.
 Penny: It is.
 Hugh: We have David Gruder next week. He is going to talk more about our mind. We had a chat with him a couple months ago about the shadow inside. There is a lot of synergy to what you are talking about, and what several of our presenters are talking about. What you are presenting is a really good system, wow. We don’t sell things on this show, but if people wanted the book, where would they find it?
 Penny: It’s available on Amazon. They can get it on Amazon. Look up The Productivity Zone or Penny Zenker, and they can find it there. There is a link I can put up if anybody is interested in taking the assessment, which enables them to get a piece of software that helps them actually to rate themselves and do some self-coaching, identify their strengths and weaknesses, and set some actions around these ten core drivers, too.
 Hugh: If you will send that to us, we will put that in the notes for the Nonprofit Chat and the podcast. We’re pushing 15,000 listeners on the podcast, so somebody likes what we’re doing. We want to make sure they have access to whatever you mention, so if you mention any links, make sure we have them.
 Russell, I know you’re itching to get in here. I am going to go through security as you guys are doing the next bit, and I will see you on the other side.
 Russ: Outstanding. I am looking through this. I am now the owner of your book.
 Penny: Thank you.
 Russ: Technology is good for consuming things, not necessarily good for the checking account. The impulse. I love the idea of the issue of time. They look at it as the enemy. I have heard this saying that time is a gift, not the enemy.
 Penny: Right, that’s a good statement.
 Russ: Yes, we can get into some of the questions that we have for the week. Our first question is: What is the biggest time vampire of your life?
 Penny: Right. I want everybody to think about this question and answer it for themselves. Hopefully, for those who are joining us on Facebook, post what it is. Get really clear on what the biggest time vampire is. For me, my biggest time vampire is my kids. I love them, and of course I want to be flexible to be there. But they miss the bus, and then I have to drive them to school. Whatever I have planned is out the door. Or I have to pick them up from school because they missed the bus, or they have soccer practice. I do a lot of organization to get them to where they need to go and things like that. Things pop up all the time. Somebody is sick. I will include the dog in that. The dog has a problem, and I have to take care of that. We all have time vampires.
 What that means to me is something that we can or can’t control. There are things outside of our control that happen that take our time up. But we also have to think about which part is within our control. There is a piece of it that we can anticipate what kinds of things could come up, and we can set things in place, be proactive, so we don’t have that. In the morning, if I could make sure to wake my kids an extra 15 minutes early, then I can avoid most of the challenges of them being late, unless it is a real exception.
 I want people to take ownership of the time vampires. It’s like that person that calls and you know every time that person calls they want to talk to you for an hour. You can allow that person to be that time vampire because you don’t have an hour to give them. Or you can say, “Hey, what’s up? I only have ten minutes.” If you qualify yourself in the beginning, not in a rude way, but in a good way, “Love to talk to you. That’s why I picked up. But I only have a couple minutes.” When you do things like that, then you can help to mitigate those time vampires.
 Russ: I think that can create conflicts for people because they say, “What if something happens that is out of my control?” It’s in here. It’s part of the process; we’re talking about planning. That involves contingencies. You have to have a contingency plan. Entrepreneurs, we are eternal optimists. Everything usually takes two to three times more money, time, and effort than we planned for because we plan for everything to go well. I think that’s a pretty common trap.
 Penny: What is your vampire, Russ?
 Russ: My vampire- I suffer from what I call S to the third power. Shiny Stuff Syndrome. I have to be very careful. I do a lot of communicating online, and I find myself in social media a whole lot because I am writing, posting, responding to people. Sometimes I have writing and other projects to do, so I need to back out of that so I can prepare for my meetings with clients and other things. That can be a real vampire, whether it’s social media or email. There are apps out there you can get that will squawk at you or tell you to get out of there so you don’t get stuck in social media or other things. It’s really easy to get stuck in activities that don’t produce revenue or results.
 With the coaching, for you, I know you work with a lot of different people. What are some of the more common vampires that the people you work with talk about?
 Penny: One of them you just mentioned: social media is a big one. Different types of office distractions are what people talk about. These open office environments that they are in. Now the studies have just come out to show they really are killing our productivity. That is why people prefer to work at home because they get stuff done at home. Often, when I go in and do workshops in organizations, they won’t talk about this with each other, but in a safe space around these drivers, they are able to talk about the distractions of, “Hey, you know, my desk is closer to the kitchen area, so everybody stops to talk to me at my desk.” They don’t get stuff done. There are those common things. There is the telephone ringing. They pick up their phone because it might be a client. They are constantly binging with their emails and things like that that are interrupting them. Depending on the office environment, there are a ton of different ways that our times can be taken.
 Russ: There are times I turn the telephone off or let voicemail pick up. My phone won’t explode at my desk if I don’t pick it up. For the most critical things, I think it’s important to focus on those.
 Productivity zone, everybody’s productivity zone, is that a moving target? Is that different for everybody?
 Penny: It is. We’re not machines. We’re not going to be calculating how productive we are by widgets. It’s not like we produce ten widgets and have a productive day. We need to be able to feel in control. When we feel stressed, then you’re not in the zone. You need to have some semblance of feeling like you’re in control. I don’t like the word “balance” because what does that mean? It’s like a plane that is 90% of the time correcting all the time. It’s never really on path. Maybe it’s being in harmony. Being able to feel good about what you have accomplished and knowing you are moving forward on those things that are most important. The key thing about the zone is is that you can use any of these core drivers to get back in the zone.
 When you get distracted, you have one of those vampires, you can turn off your social media. People just don’t do that. Being more conscious of what helps you to be more productive, and then putting things in place to support you—for example, I go to a personal trainer because I know I won’t go otherwise. I want to be healthy, I want to stay fit and strong, and I know that it’s important to my energy levels and my whole productivity. So I have to force myself by paying somebody to go and work with them. That’s just the way it is. We have to put things in place so we know we’re not living and reaching the things we want to reach. If we are not able to do it for ourselves, then we need to put something else in place, some other form of accountability to help us.
 Russ: Accountability is where it’s at, for sure. I have an accountability coach that I speak with every week. That has been marvelous for me. There are other people here at my office, and we keep each other on task with different projects. Accountability is huge for helping stay productive.
 Penny: Absolutely. And that is why I created that software. Not everybody can afford a coach. I realize that. Having a coach in some instances can be outside of a person’s budget, so I wanted to have something that would give them some accountability. They could come back to the tool on a weekly basis, assess where they are, and get that accountability coaching because it is key.
 Hugh: Penny, our primary audience here are clergy or nonprofit executives and people who work on a very limited budget. That would be an important gift for them. You have been to my workshop in Philly, and Russell has been to two of them. You both presented. It’s great when you have people present who do better than you do in your own workshop. I feel really fortunate having you two guys around me.
 In that workshop, if you remember, I ask people what the topics they wanted to deal with most are. The number one in every location was leader burnout. I think that has to do with what you are talking about. It’s not really having that structure. I asked about managing time, which we don’t; we manage selves.
 Speak about how the anxiety and this stuff going unbridled, not having accountability, not having a plan, not being productive. How does that contribute to us being burned out?
 Penny: Burnout is the ultimate stress outside of the zone. It’s gotten to a point where you are not doing anything about it, and you are just going on until- it’s a stacking effect. Then it gets to the point where physically some people have adrenal issues because they really burn out in the context of mentally and physically.
 I believe that the things that are most important is for them to recognize and- Here is the challenge. Most people say they don’t have the time. They don’t have the time to invest in making sure they are not getting enough exercise and moving their body. They don’t have enough time to get enough sleep. They don’t have enough time for these different things, so they just keep going like the Energizer Bunny until they burn out. The key thing is to take a step back as soon as possible on a regular basis and say, “What’s working and what’s not working? Where must I make the time?” Again, I go to a trainer because I must make that time and because I know it is going to feed my energy and everything else. I know that my brain is like everyone else’s where I say I don’t have the time for that. I have projects I need to move forward on. These people in these nonprofits, they have a big responsibility and a big passion. Sometimes that passion can burn you out because you don’t have harmony with the rest of the areas in your life. It’s taking a step back and getting that strategic holistic look at what is going on so that they can focus their time and energy in the right places.
 One other quick thing is: A good question for those people to ask themselves: What is it costing you? Sometimes we just keep going, but if they really think about what it’s costing them, it may be costing them volunteers and people on their team because they are not able to communicate properly. They are not able to lead their team anymore when they are in that stressful state because that energy is transferred. They might be losing possible funding. They might be destroying their relationships with their family. Any of us, if we think about what it’s costing us, then it can create some greater motivation. We are one hundred times more motivated by pain than we are by pleasure. Really to connect to that and understand this is how it’s not serving them, and then it will create some action.
 Hugh: Russ, maybe you get this, too, but I hear that often. I don’t have time to write goals. I don’t have time to make a plan. Well, you have time to really upset your whole board and your staff because you are not moving in a step-forward manner, and they don’t know where to play. I would classify that as an excuse, not a reason.
 Penny: And the excuse comes from fear. I tell people all the time to write down the excuses why and where you are procrastinating. Everything around perfectionism, too. Why are you working to death? What are your excuses? I love that. Shine a light on those excuses so you can see what it really means.
 Hugh: I wouldn’t be a procrastinator if I ever got around to it.
 Russ: That brings us to that second question, which is: What do you procrastinate around? My Kryptonite is the telephone. I need more phone conversations because I talk to people one on one. When I talk to them, that is how I get to know them and see what they are doing. I can set some time to make some sales calls. I find myself doing other things, whether it is a broadcast or writing something. It’s really important. My friend Suzy Prudden says that my mind needs a telephone.
 What are some things that you procrastinated around and other things that a lot of people that you work with find themselves procrastinating around?
 Penny: Isn’t it funny how we procrastinate on the things that are most important? People find this hard to believe about me, but- I do a lot of public speaking. One of the things I procrastinate on is preparing for my speeches. I don’t mean structuring out the slides or anything like that, but the actual preparation. Recently, I did a TedX for Penn State in Erie, and that was the hardest thing for me: set aside time to practice. I kept finding other things to do instead of practicing. Then I had to go back to that accountability. I had to invite people to my house, and I had to burn the boats. I had to do things that meant I had no way out. People were coming, and I had to practice.
 I see a lot of people procrastinating on sales calls because of a fear of rejection, because they don’t see themselves as a salesperson. They will procrastinate on asking people for referrals because they feel like if a person appreciated their service, they will just give me the referral. That’s not true. People are just too busy to think about you, so you have to remind them.
 Russ: That’s true. I’m my favorite subject. I’m all I think about.
 Penny: The administrative paperwork, that is another thing to procrastinate on. Anything that requires organization. Cleaning their desk. Getting through their email. I have had CEOs tell me they have had 5,000 unread emails in their inbox. That is ridiculous. Someone else told me they had 200 voicemails. Okay.
 Hugh: I don’t think I’ll tell you how many emails I have.
 Penny: Unread?
 Hugh: Everything is in spam, and I just don’t go there.
 Penny: That’s different. If it’s spam, that’s something else. You can filter things into different places, but this was in their inbox. The first thing that you do is take everything that comes into your inbox and you filter out all that spam. Only good quality content comes to your inbox.
 Hugh: I think the wisdom is being able to set some priorities on that. Excuse me, Russ, I interrupted you.
 Russ: As far as that email inbox goes, I have to clean out the spam first and quickly so that I can scan through for the important things. Filing it, I don’t always file it, but I have to go through that inbox with the most current stuff and get it out of there. I do that at night before I go to bed sometimes because I get a lot. It’s like delete, delete, unsubscribe, unsubscribe. Even if you sign up for a free report or some valuable information, what happens is those folks email you every day.
 Penny: There are some good systems out there that help you to remove those.
 Hugh: I’d love to talk about that. We keep adding things. We add email, text, cell phone, but we don’t take anything away.
 Penny: That’s true.
 Hugh: Are we up to our third question yet?
 Russ: Yeah, we are. Penny, how do you prioritize your work? Another portion to that is how do you define what is urgent? I have trouble with that. Sometimes I have to back up, look at what is most important, and take things off the list.
 Penny: Totally. I find that is one of the biggest challenges people have. I am pretty good at that myself, but I find that a lot of people get- Look at the nature of an entrepreneur. We are born with a certain sense of urgency. It’s a gift and a curse at the same time. We have to respond quickly because that is just in our nature. A potential client calls, so we have to get back to them. It takes real discipline to be able to really define and say what is really urgent. Is it really urgent that I get back to this person or that I check my email—I forget what the latest statistic is—130 times a day? It’s ridiculous. Don’t quote me on that, but the number is a ridiculous number of how many times people check their email. It’s making planning a priority. A lot of these drivers are intertwined. I pulled them out so we can get some awareness out of them, but in setting priority, we need to understand that balance between what is important. To me, what is important is strategic. I brought that up in the very beginning. My whole mindset works around what is strategic and how we can think and act more strategically. Thank you, Peter Hoffer, for that, my mentor who taught me that. So I am always thinking, Is this going to further my most important goals? And that is how I stay. I try to do those things first. I am very clear on my list of things that needs to be done that those are the most important. It will be my multiplier in my long-term strategy. I call it having the multiplier mindset so that I know I am working on my multiplier.
 Russ: Okay.
 Penny: And then to be able to look at the things that are urgent but not as important. How do you handle those? Can you delegate some of those? Can you automate some of those? Can you be proactive so that they don’t show up any more?
 Hugh: Comment on two things. There is a book by Hummel called Tyranny of the Urgent. Do you know that book?
 Penny: I don’t know that book, but it sounds good.
 Hugh: The other one is Covey talks about the quadrants. Urgent, important, not important, not urgent. And how we segment our work. If we ignore stuff, then the not important becomes urgent, and there is the tyranny.
 Penny: Yes, yes. The Covey matrix is called the Eisenhower matrix. I like to have people use that to build awareness as to what they are doing throughout the day. If we took that matrix and they just identified at the end of the day what percentage of the day did you spend in each quadrant, it gives you some awareness. As you start to build your task list, you can look at those quadrants. Which of those things are from the important quadrant? Which of them are in the urgent quadrant? And so forth. It gives you a greater awareness.
 It’s almost like when people are asked to do a food diary because they need to have greater awareness as to what they are eating. To most people, it sounds ridiculous. I know what I am eating. If you have to write it down, it gives you a different level of clarity than just having it in your head. Oh my goodness, I only had one glass of water the whole day, and I am supposed to have had eight. Did I really have five chocolate chip cookies and that carrot cake? Oh, I thought that was yesterday. That was today. Did I really have eight cups of coffee? Oh, I did. When you have to write it down, it’s a rude awakening.
 it’s the same thing if you look and really log what you are doing with your time, it’s a rude awakening. I have had some really big Ahas in working with people and having them see that so they could clearly from that point decide what I can delegate. They could clean the situation up, but they have to recognize it fully first.
 Hugh: Absolutely. In one of John Maxwell’s books, he sits down in his thinking chair at the end of every day. He spends fifteen minutes thinking about where the time got lost and making notes as to what he can do better. There are affirmations and corrections. I suggest to clients I work with who have a similar pattern. We do what we call daily valuable deliverables, something that is a baby step that leads us to a bigger plan. It’s a daily discipline.
 I am of the opinion that we learn from ourselves. You have referred to some of these things during this interview. Writing down what you eat, we are what we eat, and we are also what we think and we are what we do. That is a good idea. Write it down and look at it. That is some of the same discipline as writing down your food. If you feel bad, it might be what you ate, but it might be how you created some stress in your stomach because you didn’t plan your day and then work in the plan. Am I rambling, or am I hearing what you’re saying?
 Penny: Absolutely. You are picking up what I am putting down. Yes.
 Russ: Writing things down is a question of accountability. Once you have it on paper, it’s real. Saying things to my accountability coach just adds to that. You know what surprises me is how much better some things sound in my head than when I am telling somebody else or writing them down.
 Penny: We can lie to ourselves when it is in our head. When we get it on paper, it’s hard to lie to ourselves. That is why I like to have people get it on paper.
 There is another exercise I have people do around distractions. The reason we are not getting to what is important is all of these excuses and distractions. I have them track their distractions and categorize them. I have a link that people could go to to download that worksheet.
 Russ: That is what I need for my Shiny Stuff Syndrome.
 Penny: Here is the thing. Most people will download the sheet—and you know you are one of them—and you won’t do anything with it. You won’t actually take the few minutes that it takes to write things down. That is why we don’t get results. We don’t have the discipline and the mental capacity to use the tools that we are given. Again, it comes back to the mental side. Why is it important? Get connected to how much more you can do. Get connected to how much more relaxed you would be if you could just remove some of these things.
 Hugh: Penny, when you do that, you find you have more free time because you really put things in order and you eliminate the things you shouldn’t be doing.
 Penny: Right? How awesome is that?
 Russ: One of the things in what you were saying I noticed about myself over the years is I would find myself learning more things. As I got overwhelmed, I picked up this tool or that tool. There is remarkable stuff out there. Next thing you know, I have all of these tools, and I am sitting there trying to think, How am I going to juggle things, manage ‘em, make ‘em work? I am overwhelmed because I have this pile of tools, and my productivity is not where I want it to be. I am getting more and more tools and more and more stressed. Am I just so wacky that I am on my own planet?
 Penny: You’re like everyone. I think you said it, Hugh. It keeps being more and more and more, and nothing is going away. It comes back to the discipline of just saying… I don’t like to use a ton of tools for the same reason. There is too much. A) We have to get away from the “I need a new tool because it will fix everything.” All it does is start us back over, and two months later, we say, “This isn’t working. I need a new tool.” All the tools work. I guarantee you, all the tools work. It doesn’t matter what tool it is. If you use it consistently, it will work. It might not be perfect, but it will work.
 Hugh: I have a tool called a pen and paper.
 Penny: I would say go through your tools and remove most of them. It reminds me of an IT group I was working with. They wanted to bring in this document management system. It was all about choosing the tools. I said, “Hold on a second. If we are going to put in a new document management system, how are we going to use it?” First, let’s think strategically how we are going to organize ourselves versus what are the bells and whistles of the system that don’t matter. That is what we need to get back to. What do we really need to run our business? What is it that we are looking to do? What are the options available? Choose one of those tools and be committed enough to it to follow it through.
 Hugh: That is real discipline. I am going to let Russell take us out here. I am going to board a plane to Florida to go to CEO Space where it is not raining today. Penny, this is awesome stuff. Russell will take us to the end.
 Russ: Thanks, Hugh. Have a good trip. Give everybody my best down there.
 Penny: Me too.
 Russ: Let them know they are in my thoughts.
 It’s important: getting down and using a tool that is going to work. I have a specific set of things that I like. I use Evernote. I do everything in Evernote. Funny enough, it was a tool you introduced me to.
 Penny: I like Evernote, too.
 Russ: I have clients that use the Microsoft suite. They use Google, and they don’t want to do anything different. That is how I got a pile of tools. That doesn’t always work. But I stick to Evernote; that is really my tool. Even if I am using their platform, I organize things with Evernote.
 Penny: Perfect. Then you have a system that works for you.
 Russ: I have what works for me. I love it. I wish I could convince everybody that I am right and they should use mine, but that is crazy. Everybody works a little differently.
 Penny: Everybody does. There are going to be different tools that are for some and other tools that are better for us.
 Russ: You mentioned it very early in the show, but I’d like to spend a little bit of time on it. Our fourth question is talking about the difference between being overwhelmed and overloaded, and how we can separate those and manage each of them.
 Penny: Like I said earlier, most people think they are overloaded. They get to this thing where I am at capacity and I can’t take on any more. I even hear myself say, “I don’t have the time.” The truth is I am not being resourceful enough to find ways to make it happen. Either the motivation isn’t high enough, or I have some kind of fear of what it is going to take away from me. So I get overwhelmed with all the things I have to think about. A lot of the times, what I am working with people around is how to get off overwhelm. Make a plan. Don’t keep everything in your head. Go back to how you prioritize things. People get stuck because everything is a priority. Then they go into overwhelm. Sound familiar? We have all been there.
 Russ: I have a mantra for myself that I came up with. This is a processor, not a storage unit.
 Penny: That’s good. I like that.
 Russ: I try to record things and organize them in a way that I can come back to them later. That is why I love Evernote. There is that emotional component. Overload is having too many things to do. With leaders, they can create that by overfunctioning or taking on too many things. How have you seen that impact some of the people you are working with, as far as having an overfunctioning leader and underfunctioning employees?
 Penny: Typically, I find that when there is an overfunctioning leader, the employees are underfunctioning. I call that the accountability effect. The leader feels nobody is accountable, and it’s really because they are in their perfectionist, micro-management mode. They are trying to do everything; therefore, the others kind of get apathy, like the leader will do it anyway. That is often what I see. The people who are taking on, who are in that perfectionist stage, meaning they can’t lose control of something, need to be overloaded. In most cases, they have teams or potential resources they could reach out to to be able to help them to delegate, but they don’t want to delegate because they do it better, or the other person doesn’t know, so it would be easier for me to do it than to teach them. Again it’s a very tactical, short-term thinking versus how much time they could free themselves up over time so they can do the more strategic work. So I find that that is where the overfunctioning gets caught up.
 There are plenty of people. I am a single mom. I am involved – I have two kids who are somewhat coming into their teenage years, very active in sports, got a lot to organize with them. I run my own business, and I am involved in other community affairs and activities. And, and, and. You want to have a relationship. Part of it is spending time in our relationship. We manage all of these things in our lives. It doesn’t have to be an overload; it’s just how we approach it. It does come back to setting the priorities.
 Not every day are you going to get to everything that you feel is urgent and needs to be done. You need to have some criteria. We didn’t talk about that in terms of prioritizing, but you need to have some criteria about what determines what pops to the top of the list. When you get clear on what that criteria is, and it depends on the circumstances of your life, those criteria could be around values. Or if you are looking for sales opportunities, you can’t go after everything. You can overload yourself if you take on too big of a region. If you strategically approach it, you are being more resourceful, changing that overload, and not creating overwhelm. Does that make sense?
 Russ: Yes, breaking things down into smaller chunks helps me. I have three to five things, no more than five. Three things that I absolutely must get done. And then stick to that. Add more of course throughout the day. But the most important three is where I would look for myself. Where do you find the most resistance to people who are in that cycle?
 Penny: You just said the top three things. It’s the excuses. People say, I have more than five. I can’t do to the top three to five things. I have ten or twenty things, and there is no way around it. What I find is that most people are in an overwhelm place. What happens in our brain when we get stressed and in that overwhelm is that our brain starts not to work effectively. We go into flight or fight or freeze mode, which means we don’t have access to our logical decision-making mode. That makes us more anxious and more in that emotional space. The most important thing is to take a step back and to get a broader perspective. That is why I talk about the ten drivers so that people can take a step back and see where they are in all of them and which one is the biggest hindrance for you right now. Maybe it’s you don’t have the time so you don’t do any planning. Then you are in urgency mode so things fall apart, or you haven’t planned accurately so you need more resources than you thought, or it takes twice as long. You know what I’m saying. It’s really getting to take a step back and to be able to see it from a logical perspective.
 Russ: I think that is critical. Get that other perspective. That is where people like you and I and Roy, my accountability coach, come in. We get to cluster things, and we get overwhelmed. Somebody can bring an outside perspective. It could be an accountability buddy. Go out and hire a coach, or get an accountability buddy. This has been a marvelous hour. We have come down to our final couple of minutes. I am really looking forward to your book. What are some closing thoughts that you want to leave our audience with for themselves and for their teams?
 Penny: As a closing thought, what I would urge people to do is understand that it’s not about time. There have been studies at the University of Pennsylvania where they studied stress and time. Basically, the outcome was the people who were given back time weren’t any less stressed or happy than the people that they actually gave more to because it’s how you show up for your time. I would say look at how you are managing your energy, how you are showing up for the time. Look at your excuses. When you say I don’t have the time or whatever your excuses are, challenge them. Is it really true? What does that mean? I did this the other day. I heard myself say that I didn’t have the time, and I looked at it and said, “Wait, that means it’s not a priority for me.” Then I need to question myself as to why it’s not a priority. If it’s not a priority, get it off my calendar all together. By challenging ourselves, you can be your own coach. I’m not saying you don’t need a coach. Everybody should have a coach because it’s better to get the outside perspective. But when possible, be your own coach and challenge yourself in those excuses so that you can really get to the root of what is holding you back.
 Russ: Thank you. That is marvelous. Priorities change, and things change. There is a time to let go of things. Penny, I thank you very much for coming.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>NPC Interview with Penny Zenker</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to the Nonprofit Chat tonight. We have a really, really, really good topic tonight. My co-host on these has been Russell David Dennis. I’m Hugh McPherson Ballou. We have a good time on these, and we introduce great things to the world by introducing great people who have great products and services. We have a long time friend of ours tonight, Penny Zenker. Russ is carrying the heavy weight tonight. I am waiting in an airport to board a plane, so I will be a passive participant in this. We are recording on the cloud. This is going to be part of our Nonprofit Exchange podcast, Penny. This nonprofit chat is something we broadcast out to folks every Tuesday at 7. Russell, would you cue up the introduction and let Penny talk a little bit about herself as well?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Thank you, Hugh, and welcome, Penny. It’s always a pleasure to see you. It’s been a good while. Tonight, ladies and gentlemen, we have Penny Zenker. Penny is a strategic business coach and trainer. She coaches business leaders and entrepreneurs. She is the author of the best-selling book <em>The Productivity Zone: Stop the Tug of War with Time.</em> Penny leverages her personal experiences building up and later selling a multi-million-dollar business, as a senior executive at one of the world’s largest market research companies, and working with business leaders all over the world as a Tony Robbins business coach. Penny’s proven and practical approaches to help people get results quickly. Time is something that is just difficult to get more of. It’s the one thing we can’t get more of. Penny, tell everybody about yourself today. Good to see ya.</p> <p><strong>Penny Zenker:</strong> Good to see you, too, Russell and Hugh. Always good to be here with you guys. Thank you for having me here. As you cued it up, where some of my experience and background is, Hugh earlier said, “How are you qualified? What makes you the time management expert or productivity expert?” Maybe it’s because I have more challenges than most people, I don’t know. No.</p> <p>As you heard in the introduction, I started my own technology business back when I was 25. Nobody knows better about time management challenges than an entrepreneur starting off in their business, wearing all the different hats and playing all the different roles. I have seen it from an entrepreneur’s perspective. Then I went to work for a big company, organized very differently. At the same time, when I left my company and I sold it, I thought, Now I am going to go work 9-5. It’s going to be so easy. I am going to take over this role. That’s not what it was at all. Instead of being the CTO of the organization, I took my boss’s job in a reorganization, and then I was responsible for multiple countries, speaking a foreign language, and reorganizing the organization. I have never experienced such a challenge, which isn’t time. At that moment, I thought it was a time management challenge. How can I do all this?</p> <p>What I’d love to briefly share is a story that shifted the way I thought about time management forever. And hopefully some of our discussion will really be around that. When I took over this position at the market research company, and I was overwhelmed and I was questioning myself if I even had the skills and what was needed to do this job because it was so much different and bigger than what I had ever had before.</p> <p>It’s when we get overwhelmed, we think we get overloaded, but we are really just overwhelmed. There is a difference between that. One has to do with mental capacity, where the other one is more of a time capacity issue or a physical capacity issue.</p> <p>I went into my boss’s office and said, “Peter, I can’t do this. I don’t think I am the right person for this position.” I shared with him what my challenges were. He sat there patiently, like a cool leader, listening. Then he said, “Listen. I hired you to make decisions. What you do with the rest of your time is up to you.”</p> <p>Think about that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is profound.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> My reaction was at first, “Easy for you to say.” But then I thought about that, and it was so simple. As you said, Hugh, it is so profound. It really made me rethink the way that I looked at everything because it’s true. It shifted my mindset from that point forward to being much more of a strategic thinker than a tactical thinker. When we are in time management, then we are tactically thinking. We need to pull ourselves away and be more strategic. Go ahead, Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> People in leadership positions have tremendous impact. What that person said to you, “I pay you to make decisions,” that is amazing. Penny was talking about her journey of being able to think strategically. Penny, that was profound. Talk about it a bit more, and then we will get into some of the substance we want to talk about tonight.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> As I said, that was the base of me shifting my thinking around time. As I got further into that organization, I was able to work with people in various divisions of that organization. Then I went to work with Tony Robbins as a strategic business coach for his organization, and I worked with people all over the world. I really helped them to—I think you said it earlier, Russ—get out of your own way. I helped them to get out of their own way. If cash flow is the number one reason why businesses go out of business… *technical difficulties*</p> <p>As I started to work with Tony Robbins as a strategic business coach there, the goal was to help companies grow their businesses, double their business and to grow exponentially. They say that the number one reason businesses go out of business is cash flow. The number two reason has to be because of their time management. They would have the cash flow if they managed their time and thought more strategically about what they need to do.</p> <p>It doesn’t matter what culture or what country. I found myself working on the same set of skills first and foremost with people all over the world to help them to manage the way that they think around time management and where they focus and how they prioritize, to get them to think more strategically about what they are doing as opposed to tactically. Then we could implement the strategies and things like that. But it’s really about shifting the perspective around time and being more of a strategic thinker around that than a tactical thinker.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What is your book about? <em>Stop the Tug of War with Time.</em> We used that in our teaser that we sent everybody earlier.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> I saw that. I think it’s the common struggle that people feel is, “I wish I just had more time.” It’s that tug of war with time. What I did was all the people I have worked with around the world, I thought, How can I bring this to a larger number of people than just those few people I have been able to work with one on one? I really want to make a much bigger impact. The way to do that is either through written word, or a video series that I do. I also have a piece of software that goes with this.</p> <p>It really describes what I call the productivity zone. When you are in the zone, you are focused on ten core drivers that help you to think and act more strategically, like I said about the decision-making aspect. What are the aspects that go into having us be more strategic about how we show up for our time?</p> <p>There is a framework for the productivity zone. What is in the zone is these ten drivers. What is out of the zone is perfectionism and procrastination. We were talking earlier, Russ, before the show started, about how that is where resistance is. We create resistance through procrastination because mentally we are not interested, we are not clear on what we want to do, we are not motivated, and we are afraid of what is on the other side. We have all this resistance that sits outside, and that is where the stress is.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Stress? Stress? We don’t have stress. So, Penny, Russ has written books, I have written books. My first book, I outlined it. I started on the chapter “Getting Things Done.” It was about what you are talking about, planning, that whole space. Once I wrote it, it really helped me do the rest of the book, and it gave me this sense of accountability. Okay, well you said it, now you gotta do it. Writing the book and thinking about being productive, you have to plan it and make use of the time available. Was there a learning experience for you in going through that writing the book process?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> There were a lot of learning experiences as I’m sure you guys have had, too. Some of the things that helped me were principles I explained in the book. For instance, the number one principle is to understand how to motivate yourself and to be in the right space of motivation. When you are really motivated, everything else disappears, and you get things done. One of the things I did first was create the cover of my book, like way before it was even started. I had the cover, so I was motivated to see that it was already done; it was just filling in the pages. That really motivated me and inspired me as I saw it up on my desk and know that it was just about filling it in.</p> <p>Mine came pretty easily structured. Once you have an outline, and because I am talking about the ten drivers, it was pretty easy because each driver was then a chapter. As soon as I had that, it was clear. And how I wanted to format it. I wanted to have a few callouts. I wanted to have a summary at the end so people could have the top three takeaways of each chapter. And I wanted to have a personal story at the beginning of each chapter. Once I defined the outline and that format, it was really easy to put things in. Easier than people think, especially today with the whole dictate thing. I love that function.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I love Siri. I think I sleep with her. She understands me and makes my Southern into real language.</p> <p>You talked about your ten. I am asking some questions because Russ will do the heavy lifting after I go through security here at the airport. What are those ten? Can you outline those? Russ knows you and has done some research, and he has some profound questions to lay on you. We also have some questions that you and I devised a while back that are launching out there on Facebook and Twitter for people to respond to, and we will talk about those in the interview, too. What are those ten? PZ. Those are your initials.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> I know, isn’t that funny? I realized that afterwards. Productivity Zone and Penny Zenker, PZ.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Unconscious titling going on.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What are those ten?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> I will go through them real quickly. Obviously there is meat below it. The key is understanding how to twist them and make them work for you in the moment. Number one is motivation. Number two is self-talk. Number three is focus. Number four is physiology or self-care. I am going to do them in blocks. Those four together make up what I call Championship Psychcology. It’s where we manage our energy. That is really the determination of what you get done in that time; it’s because how you show up for that time. Those are the four initial drivers: about how we manage our energy and psychology.</p> <p>Then we go into Winning Strategies. That is the planning, getting that outline together. It’s the process, creating systems, automating things. And then prioritization, knowing what comes first, what’s important.</p> <p>Then we get into what makes it sustainable. Now we have our psychology and approach. What do we need to do to keep this going? That would be progress. That’s the next one. Understanding measurement, what it is that we are measuring. Then lastly is being proactive in staying ahead of the curve.</p> <p>I know that is a total quick run-through, and maybe we will touch on a few more in detail. Obviously there is another resource if people want it. There is a chapter for each one of those in the book and software that goes along with that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I muted myself because there was background noise. We have people joining us on Facebook and the webcast. Too bad about the technical problems before. I watched Frank Kern do a webcast for thousands of people, and they had a few snafus today. It happens.</p> <p>We are talking to Penny Zenker, author of <em>The Productivity Zone: Stop the Tug of War with Time.</em> I love it when people say they are going to manage time. You can’t manage time; it’s going to go by anyway. What are we managing?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> We are managing those three elements. We are managing our energy, which is what I say mostly. It’s how to show up for the time. Let’s face it: Most people know what to do, but they just don’t do it. That’s why I get into the procrastination and perfectionism; there is that resistance because there is something else going on there, and it’s all up here. That’s the biggest thing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my word, it’s the mental trap.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> It is.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have David Gruder next week. He is going to talk more about our mind. We had a chat with him a couple months ago about the shadow inside. There is a lot of synergy to what you are talking about, and what several of our presenters are talking about. What you are presenting is a really good system, wow. We don’t sell things on this show, but if people wanted the book, where would they find it?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> It’s available on Amazon. They can get it on Amazon. Look up <em>The Productivity Zone</em> or Penny Zenker, and they can find it there. There is a link I can put up if anybody is interested in taking the assessment, which enables them to get a piece of software that helps them actually to rate themselves and do some self-coaching, identify their strengths and weaknesses, and set some actions around these ten core drivers, too.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> If you will send that to us, we will put that in the notes for the Nonprofit Chat and the podcast. We’re pushing 15,000 listeners on the podcast, so somebody likes what we’re doing. We want to make sure they have access to whatever you mention, so if you mention any links, make sure we have them.</p> <p>Russell, I know you’re itching to get in here. I am going to go through security as you guys are doing the next bit, and I will see you on the other side.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Outstanding. I am looking through this. I am now the owner of your book.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Technology is good for consuming things, not necessarily good for the checking account. The impulse. I love the idea of the issue of time. They look at it as the enemy. I have heard this saying that time is a gift, not the enemy.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Right, that’s a good statement.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Yes, we can get into some of the questions that we have for the week. Our first question is: What is the biggest time vampire of your life?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Right. I want everybody to think about this question and answer it for themselves. Hopefully, for those who are joining us on Facebook, post what it is. Get really clear on what the biggest time vampire is. For me, my biggest time vampire is my kids. I love them, and of course I want to be flexible to be there. But they miss the bus, and then I have to drive them to school. Whatever I have planned is out the door. Or I have to pick them up from school because they missed the bus, or they have soccer practice. I do a lot of organization to get them to where they need to go and things like that. Things pop up all the time. Somebody is sick. I will include the dog in that. The dog has a problem, and I have to take care of that. We all have time vampires.</p> <p>What that means to me is something that we can or can’t control. There are things outside of our control that happen that take our time up. But we also have to think about which part is within our control. There is a piece of it that we can anticipate what kinds of things could come up, and we can set things in place, be proactive, so we don’t have that. In the morning, if I could make sure to wake my kids an extra 15 minutes early, then I can avoid most of the challenges of them being late, unless it is a real exception.</p> <p>I want people to take ownership of the time vampires. It’s like that person that calls and you know every time that person calls they want to talk to you for an hour. You can allow that person to be that time vampire because you don’t have an hour to give them. Or you can say, “Hey, what’s up? I only have ten minutes.” If you qualify yourself in the beginning, not in a rude way, but in a good way, “Love to talk to you. That’s why I picked up. But I only have a couple minutes.” When you do things like that, then you can help to mitigate those time vampires.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> I think that can create conflicts for people because they say, “What if something happens that is out of my control?” It’s in here. It’s part of the process; we’re talking about planning. That involves contingencies. You have to have a contingency plan. Entrepreneurs, we are eternal optimists. Everything usually takes two to three times more money, time, and effort than we planned for because we plan for everything to go well. I think that’s a pretty common trap.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> What is your vampire, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> My vampire- I suffer from what I call S to the third power. Shiny Stuff Syndrome. I have to be very careful. I do a lot of communicating online, and I find myself in social media a whole lot because I am writing, posting, responding to people. Sometimes I have writing and other projects to do, so I need to back out of that so I can prepare for my meetings with clients and other things. That can be a real vampire, whether it’s social media or email. There are apps out there you can get that will squawk at you or tell you to get out of there so you don’t get stuck in social media or other things. It’s really easy to get stuck in activities that don’t produce revenue or results.</p> <p>With the coaching, for you, I know you work with a lot of different people. What are some of the more common vampires that the people you work with talk about?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> One of them you just mentioned: social media is a big one. Different types of office distractions are what people talk about. These open office environments that they are in. Now the studies have just come out to show they really are killing our productivity. That is why people prefer to work at home because they get stuff done at home. Often, when I go in and do workshops in organizations, they won’t talk about this with each other, but in a safe space around these drivers, they are able to talk about the distractions of, “Hey, you know, my desk is closer to the kitchen area, so everybody stops to talk to me at my desk.” They don’t get stuff done. There are those common things. There is the telephone ringing. They pick up their phone because it might be a client. They are constantly binging with their emails and things like that that are interrupting them. Depending on the office environment, there are a ton of different ways that our times can be taken.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> There are times I turn the telephone off or let voicemail pick up. My phone won’t explode at my desk if I don’t pick it up. For the most critical things, I think it’s important to focus on those.</p> <p>Productivity zone, everybody’s productivity zone, is that a moving target? Is that different for everybody?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> It is. We’re not machines. We’re not going to be calculating how productive we are by widgets. It’s not like we produce ten widgets and have a productive day. We need to be able to feel in control. When we feel stressed, then you’re not in the zone. You need to have some semblance of feeling like you’re in control. I don’t like the word “balance” because what does that mean? It’s like a plane that is 90% of the time correcting all the time. It’s never really on path. Maybe it’s being in harmony. Being able to feel good about what you have accomplished and knowing you are moving forward on those things that are most important. The key thing about the zone is is that you can use any of these core drivers to get back in the zone.</p> <p>When you get distracted, you have one of those vampires, you can turn off your social media. People just don’t do that. Being more conscious of what helps you to be more productive, and then putting things in place to support you—for example, I go to a personal trainer because I know I won’t go otherwise. I want to be healthy, I want to stay fit and strong, and I know that it’s important to my energy levels and my whole productivity. So I have to force myself by paying somebody to go and work with them. That’s just the way it is. We have to put things in place so we know we’re not living and reaching the things we want to reach. If we are not able to do it for ourselves, then we need to put something else in place, some other form of accountability to help us.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Accountability is where it’s at, for sure. I have an accountability coach that I speak with every week. That has been marvelous for me. There are other people here at my office, and we keep each other on task with different projects. Accountability is huge for helping stay productive.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Absolutely. And that is why I created that software. Not everybody can afford a coach. I realize that. Having a coach in some instances can be outside of a person’s budget, so I wanted to have something that would give them some accountability. They could come back to the tool on a weekly basis, assess where they are, and get that accountability coaching because it is key.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Penny, our primary audience here are clergy or nonprofit executives and people who work on a very limited budget. That would be an important gift for them. You have been to my workshop in Philly, and Russell has been to two of them. You both presented. It’s great when you have people present who do better than you do in your own workshop. I feel really fortunate having you two guys around me.</p> <p>In that workshop, if you remember, I ask people what the topics they wanted to deal with most are. The number one in every location was leader burnout. I think that has to do with what you are talking about. It’s not really having that structure. I asked about managing time, which we don’t; we manage selves.</p> <p>Speak about how the anxiety and this stuff going unbridled, not having accountability, not having a plan, not being productive. How does that contribute to us being burned out?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Burnout is the ultimate stress outside of the zone. It’s gotten to a point where you are not doing anything about it, and you are just going on until- it’s a stacking effect. Then it gets to the point where physically some people have adrenal issues because they really burn out in the context of mentally and physically.</p> <p>I believe that the things that are most important is for them to recognize and- Here is the challenge. Most people say they don’t have the time. They don’t have the time to invest in making sure they are not getting enough exercise and moving their body. They don’t have enough time to get enough sleep. They don’t have enough time for these different things, so they just keep going like the Energizer Bunny until they burn out. The key thing is to take a step back as soon as possible on a regular basis and say, “What’s working and what’s not working? Where must I make the time?” Again, I go to a trainer because I must make that time and because I know it is going to feed my energy and everything else. I know that my brain is like everyone else’s where I say I don’t have the time for that. I have projects I need to move forward on. These people in these nonprofits, they have a big responsibility and a big passion. Sometimes that passion can burn you out because you don’t have harmony with the rest of the areas in your life. It’s taking a step back and getting that strategic holistic look at what is going on so that they can focus their time and energy in the right places.</p> <p>One other quick thing is: A good question for those people to ask themselves: What is it costing you? Sometimes we just keep going, but if they really think about what it’s costing them, it may be costing them volunteers and people on their team because they are not able to communicate properly. They are not able to lead their team anymore when they are in that stressful state because that energy is transferred. They might be losing possible funding. They might be destroying their relationships with their family. Any of us, if we think about what it’s costing us, then it can create some greater motivation. We are one hundred times more motivated by pain than we are by pleasure. Really to connect to that and understand this is how it’s not serving them, and then it will create some action.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, maybe you get this, too, but I hear that often. I don’t have time to write goals. I don’t have time to make a plan. Well, you have time to really upset your whole board and your staff because you are not moving in a step-forward manner, and they don’t know where to play. I would classify that as an excuse, not a reason.</p> <p><strong>Penny: A</strong>nd the excuse comes from fear. I tell people all the time to write down the excuses why and where you are procrastinating. Everything around perfectionism, too. Why are you working to death? What are your excuses? I love that. Shine a light on those excuses so you can see what it really means.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I wouldn’t be a procrastinator if I ever got around to it.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> That brings us to that second question, which is: What do you procrastinate around? My Kryptonite is the telephone. I need more phone conversations because I talk to people one on one. When I talk to them, that is how I get to know them and see what they are doing. I can set some time to make some sales calls. I find myself doing other things, whether it is a broadcast or writing something. It’s really important. My friend Suzy Prudden says that my mind needs a telephone.</p> <p>What are some things that you procrastinated around and other things that a lot of people that you work with find themselves procrastinating around?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Isn’t it funny how we procrastinate on the things that are most important? People find this hard to believe about me, but- I do a lot of public speaking. One of the things I procrastinate on is preparing for my speeches. I don’t mean structuring out the slides or anything like that, but the actual preparation. Recently, I did a TedX for Penn State in Erie, and that was the hardest thing for me: set aside time to practice. I kept finding other things to do instead of practicing. Then I had to go back to that accountability. I had to invite people to my house, and I had to burn the boats. I had to do things that meant I had no way out. People were coming, and I had to practice.</p> <p>I see a lot of people procrastinating on sales calls because of a fear of rejection, because they don’t see themselves as a salesperson. They will procrastinate on asking people for referrals because they feel like if a person appreciated their service, they will just give me the referral. That’s not true. People are just too busy to think about you, so you have to remind them.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> That’s true. I’m my favorite subject. I’m all I think about.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> The administrative paperwork, that is another thing to procrastinate on. Anything that requires organization. Cleaning their desk. Getting through their email. I have had CEOs tell me they have had 5,000 unread emails in their inbox. That is ridiculous. Someone else told me they had 200 voicemails. Okay.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I don’t think I’ll tell you how many emails I have.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Unread?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Everything is in spam, and I just don’t go there.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> That’s different. If it’s spam, that’s something else. You can filter things into different places, but this was in their inbox. The first thing that you do is take everything that comes into your inbox and you filter out all that spam. Only good quality content comes to your inbox.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I think the wisdom is being able to set some priorities on that. Excuse me, Russ, I interrupted you.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> As far as that email inbox goes, I have to clean out the spam first and quickly so that I can scan through for the important things. Filing it, I don’t always file it, but I have to go through that inbox with the most current stuff and get it out of there. I do that at night before I go to bed sometimes because I get a lot. It’s like delete, delete, unsubscribe, unsubscribe. Even if you sign up for a free report or some valuable information, what happens is those folks email you every day.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> There are some good systems out there that help you to remove those.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’d love to talk about that. We keep adding things. We add email, text, cell phone, but we don’t take anything away.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> That’s true.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Are we up to our third question yet?</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Yeah, we are. Penny, how do you prioritize your work? Another portion to that is how do you define what is urgent? I have trouble with that. Sometimes I have to back up, look at what is most important, and take things off the list.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Totally. I find that is one of the biggest challenges people have. I am pretty good at that myself, but I find that a lot of people get- Look at the nature of an entrepreneur. We are born with a certain sense of urgency. It’s a gift and a curse at the same time. We have to respond quickly because that is just in our nature. A potential client calls, so we have to get back to them. It takes real discipline to be able to really define and say what is really urgent. Is it really urgent that I get back to this person or that I check my email—I forget what the latest statistic is—130 times a day? It’s ridiculous. Don’t quote me on that, but the number is a ridiculous number of how many times people check their email. It’s making planning a priority. A lot of these drivers are intertwined. I pulled them out so we can get some awareness out of them, but in setting priority, we need to understand that balance between what is important. To me, what is important is strategic. I brought that up in the very beginning. My whole mindset works around what is strategic and how we can think and act more strategically. Thank you, Peter Hoffer, for that, my mentor who taught me that. So I am always thinking, Is this going to further my most important goals? And that is how I stay. I try to do those things first. I am very clear on my list of things that needs to be done that those are the most important. It will be my multiplier in my long-term strategy. I call it having the multiplier mindset so that I know I am working on my multiplier.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Okay.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> And then to be able to look at the things that are urgent but not as important. How do you handle those? Can you delegate some of those? Can you automate some of those? Can you be proactive so that they don’t show up any more?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Comment on two things. There is a book by Hummel called <em>Tyranny of the Urgent.</em> Do you know that book?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> I don’t know that book, but it sounds good.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The other one is Covey talks about the quadrants. Urgent, important, not important, not urgent. And how we segment our work. If we ignore stuff, then the not important becomes urgent, and there is the tyranny.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Yes, yes. The Covey matrix is called the Eisenhower matrix. I like to have people use that to build awareness as to what they are doing throughout the day. If we took that matrix and they just identified at the end of the day what percentage of the day did you spend in each quadrant, it gives you some awareness. As you start to build your task list, you can look at those quadrants. Which of those things are from the important quadrant? Which of them are in the urgent quadrant? And so forth. It gives you a greater awareness.</p> <p>It’s almost like when people are asked to do a food diary because they need to have greater awareness as to what they are eating. To most people, it sounds ridiculous. I know what I am eating. If you have to write it down, it gives you a different level of clarity than just having it in your head. Oh my goodness, I only had one glass of water the whole day, and I am supposed to have had eight. Did I really have five chocolate chip cookies and that carrot cake? Oh, I thought that was yesterday. That was today. Did I really have eight cups of coffee? Oh, I did. When you have to write it down, it’s a rude awakening.</p> <p>it’s the same thing if you look and really log what you are doing with your time, it’s a rude awakening. I have had some really big Ahas in working with people and having them see that so they could clearly from that point decide what I can delegate. They could clean the situation up, but they have to recognize it fully first.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. In one of John Maxwell’s books, he sits down in his thinking chair at the end of every day. He spends fifteen minutes thinking about where the time got lost and making notes as to what he can do better. There are affirmations and corrections. I suggest to clients I work with who have a similar pattern. We do what we call daily valuable deliverables, something that is a baby step that leads us to a bigger plan. It’s a daily discipline.</p> <p>I am of the opinion that we learn from ourselves. You have referred to some of these things during this interview. Writing down what you eat, we are what we eat, and we are also what we think and we are what we do. That is a good idea. Write it down and look at it. That is some of the same discipline as writing down your food. If you feel bad, it might be what you ate, but it might be how you created some stress in your stomach because you didn’t plan your day and then work in the plan. Am I rambling, or am I hearing what you’re saying?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Absolutely. You are picking up what I am putting down. Yes.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Writing things down is a question of accountability. Once you have it on paper, it’s real. Saying things to my accountability coach just adds to that. You know what surprises me is how much better some things sound in my head than when I am telling somebody else or writing them down.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> We can lie to ourselves when it is in our head. When we get it on paper, it’s hard to lie to ourselves. That is why I like to have people get it on paper.</p> <p>There is another exercise I have people do around distractions. The reason we are not getting to what is important is all of these excuses and distractions. I have them track their distractions and categorize them. I have a link that people could go to to download that worksheet.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> That is what I need for my Shiny Stuff Syndrome.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Here is the thing. Most people will download the sheet—and you know you are one of them—and you won’t do anything with it. You won’t actually take the few minutes that it takes to write things down. That is why we don’t get results. We don’t have the discipline and the mental capacity to use the tools that we are given. Again, it comes back to the mental side. Why is it important? Get connected to how much more you can do. Get connected to how much more relaxed you would be if you could just remove some of these things.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Penny, when you do that, you find you have more free time because you really put things in order and you eliminate the things you shouldn’t be doing.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Right? How awesome is that?</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> One of the things in what you were saying I noticed about myself over the years is I would find myself learning more things. As I got overwhelmed, I picked up this tool or that tool. There is remarkable stuff out there. Next thing you know, I have all of these tools, and I am sitting there trying to think, How am I going to juggle things, manage ‘em, make ‘em work? I am overwhelmed because I have this pile of tools, and my productivity is not where I want it to be. I am getting more and more tools and more and more stressed. Am I just so wacky that I am on my own planet?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> You’re like everyone. I think you said it, Hugh. It keeps being more and more and more, and nothing is going away. It comes back to the discipline of just saying… I don’t like to use a ton of tools for the same reason. There is too much. A) We have to get away from the “I need a new tool because it will fix everything.” All it does is start us back over, and two months later, we say, “This isn’t working. I need a new tool.” All the tools work. I guarantee you, all the tools work. It doesn’t matter what tool it is. If you use it consistently, it will work. It might not be perfect, but it will work.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I have a tool called a pen and paper.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> I would say go through your tools and remove most of them. It reminds me of an IT group I was working with. They wanted to bring in this document management system. It was all about choosing the tools. I said, “Hold on a second. If we are going to put in a new document management system, how are we going to use it?” First, let’s think strategically how we are going to organize ourselves versus what are the bells and whistles of the system that don’t matter. That is what we need to get back to. What do we really need to run our business? What is it that we are looking to do? What are the options available? Choose one of those tools and be committed enough to it to follow it through.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is real discipline. I am going to let Russell take us out here. I am going to board a plane to Florida to go to CEO Space where it is not raining today. Penny, this is awesome stuff. Russell will take us to the end.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Thanks, Hugh. Have a good trip. Give everybody my best down there.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Me too.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Let them know they are in my thoughts.</p> <p>It’s important: getting down and using a tool that is going to work. I have a specific set of things that I like. I use Evernote. I do everything in Evernote. Funny enough, it was a tool you introduced me to.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> I like Evernote, too.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> I have clients that use the Microsoft suite. They use Google, and they don’t want to do anything different. That is how I got a pile of tools. That doesn’t always work. But I stick to Evernote; that is really my tool. Even if I am using their platform, I organize things with Evernote.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Perfect. Then you have a system that works for you.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> I have what works for me. I love it. I wish I could convince everybody that I am right and they should use mine, but that is crazy. Everybody works a little differently.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Everybody does. There are going to be different tools that are for some and other tools that are better for us.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> You mentioned it very early in the show, but I’d like to spend a little bit of time on it. Our fourth question is talking about the difference between being overwhelmed and overloaded, and how we can separate those and manage each of them.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Like I said earlier, most people think they are overloaded. They get to this thing where I am at capacity and I can’t take on any more. I even hear myself say, “I don’t have the time.” The truth is I am not being resourceful enough to find ways to make it happen. Either the motivation isn’t high enough, or I have some kind of fear of what it is going to take away from me. So I get overwhelmed with all the things I have to think about. A lot of the times, what I am working with people around is how to get off overwhelm. Make a plan. Don’t keep everything in your head. Go back to how you prioritize things. People get stuck because everything is a priority. Then they go into overwhelm. Sound familiar? We have all been there.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> I have a mantra for myself that I came up with. This is a processor, not a storage unit.</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> That’s good. I like that.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> I try to record things and organize them in a way that I can come back to them later. That is why I love Evernote. There is that emotional component. Overload is having too many things to do. With leaders, they can create that by overfunctioning or taking on too many things. How have you seen that impact some of the people you are working with, as far as having an overfunctioning leader and underfunctioning employees?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> Typically, I find that when there is an overfunctioning leader, the employees are underfunctioning. I call that the accountability effect. The leader feels nobody is accountable, and it’s really because they are in their perfectionist, micro-management mode. They are trying to do everything; therefore, the others kind of get apathy, like the leader will do it anyway. That is often what I see. The people who are taking on, who are in that perfectionist stage, meaning they can’t lose control of something, need to be overloaded. In most cases, they have teams or potential resources they could reach out to to be able to help them to delegate, but they don’t want to delegate because they do it better, or the other person doesn’t know, so it would be easier for me to do it than to teach them. Again it’s a very tactical, short-term thinking versus how much time they could free themselves up over time so they can do the more strategic work. So I find that that is where the overfunctioning gets caught up.</p> <p>There are plenty of people. I am a single mom. I am involved – I have two kids who are somewhat coming into their teenage years, very active in sports, got a lot to organize with them. I run my own business, and I am involved in other community affairs and activities. And, and, and. You want to have a relationship. Part of it is spending time in our relationship. We manage all of these things in our lives. It doesn’t have to be an overload; it’s just how we approach it. It does come back to setting the priorities.</p> <p>Not every day are you going to get to everything that you feel is urgent and needs to be done. You need to have some criteria. We didn’t talk about that in terms of prioritizing, but you need to have some criteria about what determines what pops to the top of the list. When you get clear on what that criteria is, and it depends on the circumstances of your life, those criteria could be around values. Or if you are looking for sales opportunities, you can’t go after everything. You can overload yourself if you take on too big of a region. If you strategically approach it, you are being more resourceful, changing that overload, and not creating overwhelm. Does that make sense?</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Yes, breaking things down into smaller chunks helps me. I have three to five things, no more than five. Three things that I absolutely must get done. And then stick to that. Add more of course throughout the day. But the most important three is where I would look for myself. Where do you find the most resistance to people who are in that cycle?</p> <p><strong>Penny: Y</strong>ou just said the top three things. It’s the excuses. People say, I have more than five. I can’t do to the top three to five things. I have ten or twenty things, and there is no way around it. What I find is that most people are in an overwhelm place. What happens in our brain when we get stressed and in that overwhelm is that our brain starts not to work effectively. We go into flight or fight or freeze mode, which means we don’t have access to our logical decision-making mode. That makes us more anxious and more in that emotional space. The most important thing is to take a step back and to get a broader perspective. That is why I talk about the ten drivers so that people can take a step back and see where they are in all of them and which one is the biggest hindrance for you right now. Maybe it’s you don’t have the time so you don’t do any planning. Then you are in urgency mode so things fall apart, or you haven’t planned accurately so you need more resources than you thought, or it takes twice as long. You know what I’m saying. It’s really getting to take a step back and to be able to see it from a logical perspective.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> I think that is critical. Get that other perspective. That is where people like you and I and Roy, my accountability coach, come in. We get to cluster things, and we get overwhelmed. Somebody can bring an outside perspective. It could be an accountability buddy. Go out and hire a coach, or get an accountability buddy. This has been a marvelous hour. We have come down to our final couple of minutes. I am really looking forward to your book. What are some closing thoughts that you want to leave our audience with for themselves and for their teams?</p> <p><strong>Penny:</strong> As a closing thought, what I would urge people to do is understand that it’s not about time. There have been studies at the University of Pennsylvania where they studied stress and time. Basically, the outcome was the people who were given back time weren’t any less stressed or happy than the people that they actually gave more to because it’s how you show up for your time. I would say look at how you are managing your energy, how you are showing up for the time. Look at your excuses. When you say I don’t have the time or whatever your excuses are, challenge them. Is it really true? What does that mean? I did this the other day. I heard myself say that I didn’t have the time, and I looked at it and said, “Wait, that means it’s not a priority for me.” Then I need to question myself as to why it’s not a priority. If it’s not a priority, get it off my calendar all together. By challenging ourselves, you can be your own coach. I’m not saying you don’t need a coach. Everybody should have a coach because it’s better to get the outside perspective. But when possible, be your own coach and challenge yourself in those excuses so that you can really get to the root of what is holding you back.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Thank you. That is marvelous. Priorities change, and things change. There is a time to let go of things. Penny, I thank you very much for coming.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Nonprofit Leadership Book Reviews by Hugh and Russ</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofit-leadership-book-reviews-by-hugh-and-russ</link>
      <description>The Nonprofit Exchange Book Reviews
 Watch the Episode [embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kcnaut1Sb4[/embed]
 Read the Episode Hugh Ballou: Greetings, we’re back with The Nonprofit Exchange. This time, Russell and I have been wrestling with this for a while. We have had so many great guests that it’s hard for us to find a spot to do this. We wanted to, at least once or twice a year, highlight some great books. Some are from our guests, and some are not. We have six books for you today. The top five, and a bonus book. Greetings, Russell. I will say hi first.
 Russell Dennis: Greetings. Welcome, all of our friends out there on Facebook and everywhere. Thank you for joining us. It’s a great day. I am just moved by all the birthday messages that have come in for me today.
 Hugh: Today?
 Russell: Today is the day. I wanted to give a shout-out to all the people—business associates, family, friends. Thank you very much. It’s been a great journey, but it’s better because of you. And all the people who join us every week to support The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Hugh: Congratulations. We’ll try not to embarrass you today. So you have three books, and I have three books. We will share a bit about each book in a brief synopsis. It’s not meant to be a thorough book review. It’s Hugh and Russ lifting out reasons why you should read this book. While we are queuing up, we are talking about leaders reading. Do you want to say more about that?
 Russell: That is part of a growing organization and transformational leaders always evolve. They set the table so that people who are in the organizations can evolve. Personal development is one of the reasons that people might volunteer with you or serve on your board because you’re either growing or going backward. Some would go as far as to say you’re either growing or dying. It’s important to increase that knowledge base. What I’ve discovered as I grow is that I don’t know more every day, but that’s perfectly all right. We want to bring you these resources. We’d like to make it a regular segment. Many of our guests have come on with books. We want to talk to them. Oprah Winfrey did it well with her book club. Maybe some of these people we can bring back to talk about their books because there is so much fascinating literature out there. We have six pretty good picks to talk about today, don’t we, Hugh?
 Hugh: We do. The other part about leaders read is I listen to a lot of podcasts. Our friend Ken Courtright has one called Grow Your Business Today. He says he reads a book with a highlighter. When he goes back and reads it again, he uses a different color highlighter. He highlights different things because he is ready to learn the next thing. I find that to be so very true. There are a lot of challenges. We will highlight six. Maybe in a few months, depending on comments from our listeners, we will highlight a few more. Let’s list the books to get our listeners’ interests up. What are your three? Then I will share my three.
 Russell: I have three great ones. The first one is Asking Rights by Tom Ralser. He wrote a book before that called Return on Investment for Nonprofits. The second book is The Guide to Proposal Writing from The Foundation Center. It is a classic. It is a staple. It is the book on writing grants. There are a lot out there, but this one is pretty powerful. And because everyone loves numbers so much, I have a wonderful book by Mark Mullen called The Nonprofit Budget Builder Toolkit. Everyone just loves those numbers so much.
 Hugh: That is awesome. Mine are more generic. We teach nonprofit leaders to install really good business practices in their organization. The first one is Twist by Julie Cottineau, who we had as a guest a while back. That’s about who we are, our identity, and our promise to people. It’s good for nonprofits to think about that. I don’t guess many do that I have ever known.
 The second one is a good book by my leadership coach who has been our guest, Roberta Gilbert. The whole leadership methodology by psychiatrist Murray Bowen, M.D. It’s called Extraordinary Relationships. It’s the anchor for us knowing ourselves.
 The third one, and I live in Virginia, and up the road from me is where Napoleon Hill grew up. The Napoleon Hill Foundation. A couple years ago, we had Don Green, who is the executive director of the Napoleon Hill Foundation. I don’t know about you Russell, but I find over and over again that nonprofit leaders have not heard of the work of Napoleon Hill, who interviewed 500 of the top leaders in the world and created this methodology. Those are the three. Which one do you want to start with? Pick one of those awesome books.
 Russell: I am going to jump right into Asking Rights by Tom Ralsin. One of the questions that people should answer in that: Why should I give you money? It was posed to him early in his career. It’s that view of how do you view the people that fund you? Tom’s premise is that what you really have are investors. I know a lot of people think of donors. Donors are investors. They are partnering with you to make an impact. When you look at monies that people contribute to you, or talent—there is time, talent, and treasure—when people contribute one of these three things or a combination of them, they are making an investment in you and betting on your team. What can you do? You have different groups of investors. Donors are just one type of investor. You have different funders. It could be pure investors or people funding you through grants or sponsors or memberships. Those are people who invest in you.
 When it comes to funding a nonprofit, what matters is not what the nonprofit themselves thinks. It’s what it is that people are getting. What do the people who are writing the checks think about what it is that you’re doing? They’re investing in you. What are people who are getting the services think? It’s not about us. We always have to have an eye toward whether we are making a profit. I know profit sounds like a dirty word, but Tom talks of it as a return on investment. That’s what people who are banking on us are looking at. They are looking at the return. They contribute to help us keep our doors open as nonprofits.
 This book is about more how to successfully fund a nonprofit. He is talking about a lot of different areas. He is talking about sustainable funding. It’s important to capture the ideas of what value means to the different audiences that you have. From this perspective, it’s about the people who invest in you. How do you sustain that? What are different funding pathways? What are you open to in terms of learning, in terms of growing, and thinking about what’s important to the people who are writing these checks? Look at the view from the other side of the desk. It doesn’t matter if it’s a corporation or a foundation. Everyone has their motivations. It’s looking at that to figure out what’s important.
 He spent a lot of time doing this. When he wrote ROI for Nonprofits, he looked at a lot of these areas. But from the point he wrote that book to the point he wrote this one, he made some other discoveries along the way in terms of what makes people fundraising-ready. He had criteria. He is a nonprofit consultant who helps people raise more money. He has a 20-question list of criteria he uses to determine if an organization is ready. If they can’t check off on all 20 areas, he won’t take their money. He will talk about which areas need to be shored up and go back to doing that. This book talks about those 20 areas, which are important to fundraisers and establishing that value that you bring. This is a very good book to read. I think when we sit down, we look at the value that we give people who are constituents of ours as a nonprofit. You have the people who directly get the benefits; you have those who write the checks to pay for them. That could be corporations, foundations, government entities, social entrepreneurs, donors. Each of these different groups have a different set of values or perspectives on what’s important. What he is talking about here is understanding that and not changing who you are, but explaining in your own language how you are bringing value and incorporating what matters to them. It’s not necessarily about us if we are doing services for people.
 This is a very good book. Take a few hours to read. This is one you get the highlighter for. There are lots of things to think about and consider. And periodically go back to it and look at some of these things to remind yourself what are some of the questions we should be asking. Are we going to the people that make sense? If someone says, “What gives you the right to ask us for money?” if you have the building blocks in place, it will be pretty clear. This book gives you loads of building blocks.
 Hugh: Russell is the funding guru. He asks the questions that other people don’t ask. Some of what your methodology is is coming out through what you have picked out of this book. What do potential funders want to see? You take it to the board. What do board members want to get out of this? That is important.
 Share with us some of your disciplines for reading books. You have an extensive library. When I talk to you, you often quote books, even in these interviews. What is your discipline? Do you read every day, or a certain time a week?
 Russell: I don’t know if you remember back when our auto industry started having hiccups. They were talking about the concept of just-in-time learning. I found all sorts of fascinating stuff on interest areas. I get a number of services. I’m always looking at books because it’s really important to be open to learning on the fly. Increasing my knowledge base on nonprofits has always been important. New developments take place. Thinking shifts. I continue to collect books. I have library cards in two counties. Public libraries are the best investment running for our tax dollars. I am always on the lookout for new articles, new information, new books. A cross-pollination of ideas across different publications and books. I have run across great TED Talks. There is so much out there. The world is our oyster now thanks to technology, which is aggravating when it doesn’t work, but a thing of beauty when it does. I am constantly learning.
 Readers lead, and I have my nose in a book. I can highlight on a computer. I read with pens and highlighters. A lot of notes in the margins of my hard copies. Some of them are a little dog-eared. I like to read a lot of books on learning. Those are some I can highlight, too.
 As we go along and we are building a resource area, we’d love to hear about what some of you folks out there who tune in are reading. All of you in the community, what are you reading? What do you want to know more about? We’re always open to that, and finding new resources. That is what the community is all about. Sharing that knowledge base and all those wonderful resources that are all out there. Now there is so much information flying at us from all directions. Where do we start? People don’t need new information. They need somebody to help us carve out the most important pieces and assemble it in a way that will help them get to where they need to go. That is one thing I pride myself on being able to do: a possibility engineer.
 Hugh: The possibility engineer. The podcast is supported by sponsors. The sponsor today is SynerVision’s online community for community builders. *Sponsor message*
 We have interviewed Julie Cottineau. Her book is Twist. She is a branding specialist. She was in charge of North American branding for Virgin Airlines and a number of other big deals. Now she does her own brand. Her book is available on Amazon. The full name is Twist: How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands. She has this color theme that goes throughout it. Twist is mentioned on about every page of her book. Lots of color throughout.
 I asked her what are the top three branding mistakes that people make? She said it’s hard to keep it to three. She said the mistakes that nonprofits are making. We talked about not really understanding what a brand is. Confusing your brand with your marketing. That’s a big mistake. Your marketing is how you get your message out there, and your branding is your fundamental story. What are you about? Why should people care? If we think about our favorite movies and books, they have a twist. She develops this concept in the book. I couldn’t put it down when I got it. You could build my nonprofit twist. That’s what you want to do.
 If I only had 10 times the budget, people say. That’s a big mistake. Stop saying that. I could throw 20 times the marketing budget at you, but if your brand isn’t in shape, your fundamental story of who you are, who you serve, and what is different about you, then it’s a waste of money.
 She goes on to say that your brand is not your logo. Your brand is your fundamental story. So many nonprofits will show me this logo as their brand. That is a representation of your brand. Your brand is represented by your logo. That is one way. But most importantly, your brand is your brand promise. Julie has what she calls Brand School. People go through her school, which is a live event, where you do the nuts and bolts of branding.
 On her website, BrandTwist.com, she has the Nike logo. It’s not about sneakers. It’s about their story. On the interview on the podcast, we talk about her points about branding. It’s really a course on branding. When you go to her website, she offers you an evaluation of her brand. It’s called BrandTwist.com. She will do an evaluation. But the book, it helped me understand all that stuff I was doing wrong, Russell. I have a good logo, but that’s not my brand.
 The other part of brand we work with is the culture and leadership. Everyone on your board, everyone in your organization, represents your brand. We have heard of airlines dragging people off seats. That one event by one person did enormous brand damage, as our guest David Corbin said. That was brand slaughter. Next time, we will review his book. It’s out there, makes you think about it seriously. Brand slaughter is when people misbehave or act out of brand promise. They have damaged your brand.
 I recommend Twist. Russell, back to you.
 Russell: She said that twist is your most important tool. There is a lot in there. The questionnaire is brilliant. That is a great book to look at.
 The second book I was looking at was The Foundation Center’s Guide to Proposal Writing. It’s a staple for anybody that writes grants. They wrote the book on that. They are probably the best source bar none for information on foundations and corporate programs that are out there and what they are doing. They talk you through some strategies for working on your proposal and some activities outside of the proposal itself, things that you need to consider while you are putting these proposals together. The meat and potatoes of what they offer, and there are loads of examples of successful proposals that have been submitted, where they show you these particular areas of the proposal they are talking about.
 For grants, you want to make sure you have all of the parts. You want to have your credible programs. There are elements to show you are ready for funding that they address. You have the correct structures in place; you are clear on your mission, vision, and values. They roll into the various parts of the proposal, one being the executive summary. The executive summary is the highlight reel for your proposal. It’s the piece that you would want to write last because it really drills down into what it is that you’re doing, so you want to be clear on that. But it has different pieces in it. What you are looking at in the executive summary, you want to highlight the whole enchilada. What is the problem you are solving? Then describe your solution. How much you need, your organization’s key assets and people. You write this last. That is the first piece.
 The statement of need comes next. It should be short and persuasive. As short and persuasive as you can make it without taking anything away from what you are trying to do. You provide information that supports your cause, your business case, any relevant information like business stats. You collect the best sources of information in that statement of need. What will help you make that case? What information are you gathering? Are you focused on numerical and quantitative stuff, or are you focused on qualitative? For building that need statement, find the most authoritative and recent sources of information you can find so that it adds strength to your proposal.
 The project description will be the longest piece of it. It is your approach to what you are going to do. What you keep in the project description is your objectives. What are the measurable targets you are trying to reach? What are the methods you are going to use to get there? What do you need in terms of staffing and administration? The next piece is evaluation. How do you know what you’re doing is successful? Are you getting the work done? Finally, you address the sustainability piece. Is this going to be an ongoing project, or how are we going to be able to keep this project rolling after the funding piece is gone?
 The next piece is the evaluation. That really gets an area all to itself because this is where measures are important. The view that a lot of people take on the evaluation piece of the puzzle is that we have to check these boxes just to make the funder happy. It’s a necessary evil. But the proper view in my estimation is to think of it as a way to figure out what is working, what is not working, how we can get better at what we do, what’s going on out there, what have we learned based on research that has been done, and can we create our own measures? If you don’t create your own, other people will create them for you. In being unique and doing something unique, the measures that you have in mind may not fit exactly.
 The other thing to keep in mind is can my people use them? Can we employ them in the field? Will they be useful in the field for people who are delivering services? That is a good place to collect information, if it makes sense.
 The key is it all depends on the funder. When you read a request for a proposal—this is the funding agency’s description of what they want to accomplish with their investments—they set some standards and criteria. You want to see if it’s in alignment with what you do. You determine a level and type of valuation that is needed. You determine whether the evaluation is on the project you create. Maybe you create a product or program that moves people to a different place. Or maybe it’s a process. You have to decide if you are evaluating a program, process ,or both. Then there is quantitative data, numerical-based data. We have qualitative data that may be based on people through third-party evaluations or questionnaires. There should be linear when you talk about evaluation from start of the project to end of the project. The evaluation should take place all the way through. When you start off, you should have a vision for where you want people to go. The professional term is the theory of change. What is going to happen when people take advantage of this program we are offering? Where is it going to move them to? It’s a question of funder preferences. You can do this evaluation in-house, or maybe you bring a third party on. A lot of things make sense.
 They also talk about the budget. Of course, your budget ought to be aligned with your objectives. It should be reasonable based on the work you do. There are a lot of expenses. You want to measure those expenses, whether they are new costs or ongoing costs, whether they are direct or indirect. What revenue sources do you have? Here, they talk more about other things because the proposal is to get revenue. When you make a budget, you want to think about revenue. Not only will you be addressing the budget for the project, but most of the time, when you write a proposal, they want to see the budget for the entire organization so they can see how your project fits in with the overall budget. Are they going to be the only people contributing money? How does the money that you’re requesting fit in with the rest of your projects and programs and overall strategy? It’s all about tying the strategy pieces together. That is critical.
 This is probably the only book you will ever need. Me being me, I read all sorts of things on this. But you would be hard-pressed to find a book better than this one that explains to you the process of writing grants.
 Hugh: Awesome. That is your sweet spot, your area of expertise, and experience. I teach transformational leadership, as I’m sure you do. There are two fundamental methodologies that we rally around at SynerVision. Transformational leadership is the culture of an orchestra or choir. It functions at a higher level. In order for that to happen, the leader must function up. The orchestra is a reflection of the conductor. The board and the organization we lead is a reflection of our leadership as a leader. Oftentimes, leaders complain about their boards not functioning in the matter they would expect them to, or how the board functions itself to function. I typically ask what is your role in that? People look at me like I’m crazy. No, you look in the mirror. If the conductor doesn’t get the sound they want, they start looking at themselves. What they see is what I get. They respond to me as a conductor.
 To be an effective transformational leader, there are other books we can review by authors who are long dead, so we can’t interview them. We will talk about Bowen systems. My coach is Roberta Gilbert. She has a number of books on Bowen systems. She is a psychiatrist and has written books about Bowen methodologies. It’s called Bowen Family Systems, and there is a Bowen Institute at Georgetown University. It’s a methodology still unfolding. People write papers and study it. Transformational leadership is dependent on the leader stepping up. Bowen systems is how leaders step up. Those systems are compatible. After 12 years, I still work with Roberta as my personal coach. I continue to read her books over and over. My wife and I have been through this together, and we share things and learn from each other. We learn from experiences. Learning something and living with it for a period of time has maximum impact.
 I would say if you are leading a church or nonprofit, you can’t do it without this book, without this methodology. You cannot be the leader you were created to be without knowing yourself. It’s studying ourselves from our family of origin. In the book, she talks about Bowen’s heritage, what led him from family therapy to this leadership research. She talks about herself and her journey and her work as a colleague of Murray Bowen. Now she is a purist. She teaches exact Bowen theory. There are other people who have rewritten it for their purposes in their books. That’s okay. I have rewritten transformational leadership in my books as a conductor. Ultimately, leaders transform cultures, transform themes. It begins with self-transformation. Extraordinary leadership helps you understand yourself.
 When I first started this, I had written my books, defined my methodology. Everything is working well. Why do I need to study something else? My wife said, “I’m going.” I guess I better go. Just find out what it’s about. It took me a whole year to wrap my head around this. I am a slow learner, but I was too blind with what I was already doing. All of a sudden, it dawned on me that I would be a better leader if I would embrace this. I would be able to transform myself in a more appropriate and direct way. This is more permanent. Over time, we continue to learn.
 In her book, she talks about the eight concepts of Bowen systems. She starts out with triangles, the basic building block of human relationships of three people. They are neither bad nor good; they’re neutral. If anxiety is present, it goes around the triangle. If there is a power play, one person takes a power position in the triangle. When you start seeing things out of balance, look at where the triangles are, and the overlapping triangles.
 The second one is differentiation of self. Who are we? Have we defined our principles for decision-making? Our principles define how we’re going to make decisions. If I am in the face of conflict, I stay calm and approach the conflict open and directly. Stick to the facts. Before this, I avoided conflict, and it got worse. Basic self is adhering to our fundamental guiding principles. Pseudo-self is when we make a decision to please somebody, which is not a good choice. They are never pleased. It tends to irritate them and everybody else when you cave into what other people are pushing you to do. Differentiation of self is how we are not fused with our spouse, our best friend, our parents, our dead parents. We cease to be an individual. Fusion is how we act in a matter that we think the other person wants us to act, and we can’t break out of that.
 There is the multi-generational transmission process. I am the son of a CPA who is the son of a CPA. I broke the thread. It’s very linear: good/bad, left/right. Mom was not linear. What am I? I am a mixture of both. Rigid structure, got to be creative without breaking the rules. Multi-general transmission process. What happens at the graveyard in the little town my mom was in when I was born. The McPhersons, which is my middle name. I heard the stories of multiple generations, and I learned about myself. It’s not bad or good. Just learning about self. There is the family generation process. There is a number of principles, concepts that Bowen identifies. He teaches the concepts.
 The last one is societal degeneration. We are seeing that one play out. He didn’t finish writing that one.
 Sibling position. I am the oldest brother of brothers. He didn’t start this, but he did more research on how we know ourselves based on our family of origins. There is the family generation process, and there is the differentiation of self, which is basically what it’s all about. Who are we? How do we show up? We really show up like we did in our family of origin. So does everybody else. This helps us understand people. We don’t correct other people. We don’t type them. We don’t categorize them. We try to understand them, and we observe behaviors. That helps us observe without getting it on you.
 A couple of Bowen quotes: “That which is created in a relationship can be fixed in a relationship.”
 “You have inherited a lifetime of tribulation. Everybody has inherited it. Take it over. Take the most of it. When you have decided that you know the right way, do the best you can with it.” I said the basic overfunctioning. I meet leaders that say here are the goals, here is how you get there, go to work. They tell people what to do. That is a form of overfunctioning. Never do what someone else can do for themselves. Oh, I always ought to be willing to do stuff that I ask other people to do. The key word is “willing.” Every time you do something, you rob a volunteer of an opportunity to do something they want to do. Back to Russell’s premise earlier. Find out what people want. Let them do it.
 This is the antithesis of Freud. If you see a Freud therapist, he/she says, “How does that make you feel?” Bowen says, “It’s okay to have empathy, but get out of it quickly.” Feeling decisions are faulty decisions. Thinking decisions are well-grounded, principle-based decisions. The goal is to rise up out of the emotional together to find what gathers us all.
 We need to calm down, be in control of ourselves, and be calm and present. He says, “In the history of calming down, has anyone ever calmed down by being told to calm down?” There is a lot of little gems. She quotes Bowen in every chapter.
 I have given you some concepts and some quotes. I think it is an essential book for leaders who want to step up their game and become a much better leader. Russell, what do you think of that?
 Russell: That is an essential part. I went through the transformational leadership program on my journey to becoming a WayFinder. I had never heard of Murray Bowen. When I read this book, it was an eye-opener. The idea that all of these inputs from the family and positioning, it was completely foreign to me. I had no idea. These are things that were driving behavior under the surface. Transformational leadership is an area, a course in itself.
 There are five types of behaviors and standards that transformational leaders set as attributes. They are charismatic in their behaviors; inspirational; intellectually stimulating, they love to teach and help people grow; considerate of individuals; and are real. Very authentic. Authenticity is that fifth piece. This is something that would be great for you to read. It will help you up your leadership game. Leading with influence. Leaders are influencers. They don’t necessarily do everything, but they make sure that things get done.
 Hugh: What is your next book?
 Russell: Knowing as I said before how much people love numbers, the next book is The Nonprofit Budget Builder Toolkit by Mark Mullen. He wrote this book a few years ago. It talks about how to build the budget. What are some of the things you need to consider? It’s not just about expenses. You have revenues. You have different types of budgets. It can be confusing to put together a budget for a nonprofit. A lot of people don’t always understand what their costs are. This book will help walk you through the purpose of a budget, a great overview. Talk about the types of budgets.
 You can have a traditional or a zero-base budget. Zero-base will come from not having any history. They talk about the different categories of funding. You have discretionary, non-discretionary. You have restricted incomes, and others that are unrestricted. Every year, you will be looking at the process of budgeting. If you have a rolling budget, which is tied to your goals and your objectives, it helps build accountability. You’re not just looking at the other things you are evaluating, but money comes into play, too. It shows people what they are getting for their investment.
 Sometimes, in a perfect world, you do the budget, and it stays the same. But sometimes things happen. So you have to revise it on the ground. The key is to have a process for working the budget. This book is very good at giving you a process for doing that. It will also talk about some of the work you need to do up front. If you have a good accountant. A lot of things are driven out of your chart of accounts. Your chart of accounts defines everything that comes in and goes out. Your chart of accounts is where you do this.
 They talk about general accounts. The types of accounts. Asset, liability, income, equity, and expense. There is a little bit of accounting around it. They talk about accounting methods and advantages and disadvantages of them. If you have an accountant on staff, that’s great. But there are full-charge bookkeepers from CPAs to others that you can engage. Fractional CFOs. There are other ways to help you measure. It’s important to keep track of everything.
 What is recommended in here is what we call a rolling budget. You have a projection for what you will have come in and the timing. Then there is what actually comes in and goes out. By building this history of what you project and what actually comes in and goes out, you start getting better. You start recognizing what can drive costs and revenue. You can start to assess your program performance. It’s all about how you do it. There are a number of different types of revenue that go in to a nonprofit. Your programs, you have a block of programs. Some are profitable, and others are not. They talk about how to classify them. That’s important. You have an operational budget, which is your forecast for your services and your operating expenses, your fundraising budget, and your budget statement of financial activities. Then you have the financial budget, which has your cash flow, debt service, investments, and budgeted statement of financial position, your balance sheet. These are the working pieces.
 This is a really good product because it explains briefly but in good detail what all of these items are, and how they fit into what you’re doing. It also talks to you about how to create budgets for specific things. I built some of the models out of here into a fundraising course I put together. Having a good budget process is important. Having people on your board and on staff that understand budgeting is good.
 One of the items in here that people may have issue with is an operating reserve fund. It’s a cash reserve. The common term for it is surplus. It’s having money left over at the end of the year. This is a no-brainer for people that are running businesses. Nonprofit circles don’t think about that. The business term for it is profit. It’s great to have that. You need that rainy day fund. You want to try to work that in because things can shift, particularly if you are dealing with government funding. Even with corporate funding, the economy can change. You want to be prepared for any shifts that might take place and have some revenue to operate in in any unforseen circumstances. One that we have seen a lot is over the last couple of years is weather. You have a weather event that throws everything in your community off. How are you going to be able to reopen your doors? Having a surplus is important.
 What about long-term things? You may need to replace furniture equipment, vehicles. All of these things wear out. You want to have a capital budget for any large purchases that you’re going to make, or repairs to your building. Getting equipment. You never know what sort of things you’re going to need. This particular publication walks you through all of that. You prepare a master budget and program budgets. Everything needs to be tied into your strategic plan, so you have operating and financial budgets.
 This is a wonderful book because there are a lot of graphics in it. You have charts. Show, don’t tell. You can see the flow. All of the information is easy to understand. If you have a financial professional accountant to help you through this process, that is even better. Your budget should be tied to all of your activities.
 Hugh: Wise words indeed. I find lots of deficits. We have a perfect amount of time for the last book. Here is the bonus book. We did interview Don Green at the Napoleon Hill Center. He is published some of Napoleon Hill’s unpublished writings. There are quite a few of them. You and I have been at CEO Space where leadership guru Bob Proctor carries the book out and reads it every day. It’s staying in tune with the philosophy. Jim Rohn said you have to have three books in the library: Think and Grow Rich, As a Man Thinketh, and The Bible. Collections of wisdom.
 Napoleon Hill is Think and Grow Rich. It’s a collection of his philosophies of achievement, his laws of success. He lists the attributes of wealth, and money is the last one. I think there are 13 attributes because he said it’s the least important. We put down money. We think of it as not necessary in the nonprofit world because of the word “nonprofit.” It’s like trying to run a car with no gas. My analogy is the money is the gas for the car. We’re not getting rich. We’re building assets that are the backbone of our stability and our legacy. We’re doing something that will last after we’re gone.
 You read chapter two with the attributes for success: have a definite purpose; do something good that brings value to humankind; keep a positive mental attitude; and surround yourself with successful people. I find there are many people in the work of charities who have never heard of Napoleon Hill and his writings. He did a radio show for many years, and there is a book called Napoleon Hill on the Air that has recently been released. But you can get it on Audible, the audio recordings of him doing things. It is a transcription of his interviews. He is talking about the laws of success and giving him examples. The interviewer asked him pointed questions.
 Think and Grow Rich is chock-full of things. He met Andrew Carnegie, who gave him lessons of introduction to all of his successful friends like Ford, Wanamaker, Woolworth, five presidents, JP Morgan. There were lots and lots of people that Napoleon went in and interviewed. He developed these laws of success.
 He has some quotes throughout the book that are so important. “Great achievement is usually born of great sacrifice. Never a result of selfishness.”
 “Desire is the starting point of all achievement. Not a hope, not a wish, but a keen, pulsating desire which transcends everything.”
 We worry about failing. He said, “Every adversity, every failure, every heartache carries with it the seed of an equal or greater benefit.”
 As you were talking about strategy, “First comes thought. Then the organization of that thought into ideas and plans. Then the transformation of those plans into the reality. The beginning as you observe is in your imagination.” Sometimes that is where we stop.
 Here is the famous one, “What the mind of a person can conceive and believe, it can achieve.” It all starts with a belief system. That’s where it starts. That is one percent inspiration, 99% perspiration. We leverage with other people.
 I find people start out and don’t have a team around them. That is so key. Definite purpose, very clear plan, like you said. Bring something that is valuable to the world. Have a positive mental attitude. Failure is not an option. Surround yourself with people better than you. What my friend Russell Dennis says is if you’re the best person on the team, you better run because you are not going anywhere.
 Russell, you’ve given some great insights. These are great books. We’ll list the books on the webpage. We encourage people to read them. There are a few pennies that benefit SynerVision if you buy on our portal through our Amazon Affiliate Program. Russell, thank you for pulling these books up and sharing some great wisdom today.
 Russell: Yes, it’s been fun. We’ve been kicking this around. I’m glad we got it done. We’d love to hear more about what you’re reading, what’s important to you, what you’ve learned from these books. Think and Grow Rich is where the concept of the mastermind came from, by surrounding yourself with people that are very wise. If I’m the smartest guy in the room, I run and get into another room. I am in the wrong room. Thank you for joining us.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
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      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
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      <itunes:subtitle>The Nonprofit Exchange Book Reviews Watch the Episode [embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kcnaut1Sb4[/embed] Read the Episode Hugh Ballou: Greetings, we’re back with The Nonprofit Exchange. This time, Russell and I have been wrestling with...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Nonprofit Exchange Book Reviews
 Watch the Episode [embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kcnaut1Sb4[/embed]
 Read the Episode Hugh Ballou: Greetings, we’re back with The Nonprofit Exchange. This time, Russell and I have been wrestling with this for a while. We have had so many great guests that it’s hard for us to find a spot to do this. We wanted to, at least once or twice a year, highlight some great books. Some are from our guests, and some are not. We have six books for you today. The top five, and a bonus book. Greetings, Russell. I will say hi first.
 Russell Dennis: Greetings. Welcome, all of our friends out there on Facebook and everywhere. Thank you for joining us. It’s a great day. I am just moved by all the birthday messages that have come in for me today.
 Hugh: Today?
 Russell: Today is the day. I wanted to give a shout-out to all the people—business associates, family, friends. Thank you very much. It’s been a great journey, but it’s better because of you. And all the people who join us every week to support The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Hugh: Congratulations. We’ll try not to embarrass you today. So you have three books, and I have three books. We will share a bit about each book in a brief synopsis. It’s not meant to be a thorough book review. It’s Hugh and Russ lifting out reasons why you should read this book. While we are queuing up, we are talking about leaders reading. Do you want to say more about that?
 Russell: That is part of a growing organization and transformational leaders always evolve. They set the table so that people who are in the organizations can evolve. Personal development is one of the reasons that people might volunteer with you or serve on your board because you’re either growing or going backward. Some would go as far as to say you’re either growing or dying. It’s important to increase that knowledge base. What I’ve discovered as I grow is that I don’t know more every day, but that’s perfectly all right. We want to bring you these resources. We’d like to make it a regular segment. Many of our guests have come on with books. We want to talk to them. Oprah Winfrey did it well with her book club. Maybe some of these people we can bring back to talk about their books because there is so much fascinating literature out there. We have six pretty good picks to talk about today, don’t we, Hugh?
 Hugh: We do. The other part about leaders read is I listen to a lot of podcasts. Our friend Ken Courtright has one called Grow Your Business Today. He says he reads a book with a highlighter. When he goes back and reads it again, he uses a different color highlighter. He highlights different things because he is ready to learn the next thing. I find that to be so very true. There are a lot of challenges. We will highlight six. Maybe in a few months, depending on comments from our listeners, we will highlight a few more. Let’s list the books to get our listeners’ interests up. What are your three? Then I will share my three.
 Russell: I have three great ones. The first one is Asking Rights by Tom Ralser. He wrote a book before that called Return on Investment for Nonprofits. The second book is The Guide to Proposal Writing from The Foundation Center. It is a classic. It is a staple. It is the book on writing grants. There are a lot out there, but this one is pretty powerful. And because everyone loves numbers so much, I have a wonderful book by Mark Mullen called The Nonprofit Budget Builder Toolkit. Everyone just loves those numbers so much.
 Hugh: That is awesome. Mine are more generic. We teach nonprofit leaders to install really good business practices in their organization. The first one is Twist by Julie Cottineau, who we had as a guest a while back. That’s about who we are, our identity, and our promise to people. It’s good for nonprofits to think about that. I don’t guess many do that I have ever known.
 The second one is a good book by my leadership coach who has been our guest, Roberta Gilbert. The whole leadership methodology by psychiatrist Murray Bowen, M.D. It’s called Extraordinary Relationships. It’s the anchor for us knowing ourselves.
 The third one, and I live in Virginia, and up the road from me is where Napoleon Hill grew up. The Napoleon Hill Foundation. A couple years ago, we had Don Green, who is the executive director of the Napoleon Hill Foundation. I don’t know about you Russell, but I find over and over again that nonprofit leaders have not heard of the work of Napoleon Hill, who interviewed 500 of the top leaders in the world and created this methodology. Those are the three. Which one do you want to start with? Pick one of those awesome books.
 Russell: I am going to jump right into Asking Rights by Tom Ralsin. One of the questions that people should answer in that: Why should I give you money? It was posed to him early in his career. It’s that view of how do you view the people that fund you? Tom’s premise is that what you really have are investors. I know a lot of people think of donors. Donors are investors. They are partnering with you to make an impact. When you look at monies that people contribute to you, or talent—there is time, talent, and treasure—when people contribute one of these three things or a combination of them, they are making an investment in you and betting on your team. What can you do? You have different groups of investors. Donors are just one type of investor. You have different funders. It could be pure investors or people funding you through grants or sponsors or memberships. Those are people who invest in you.
 When it comes to funding a nonprofit, what matters is not what the nonprofit themselves thinks. It’s what it is that people are getting. What do the people who are writing the checks think about what it is that you’re doing? They’re investing in you. What are people who are getting the services think? It’s not about us. We always have to have an eye toward whether we are making a profit. I know profit sounds like a dirty word, but Tom talks of it as a return on investment. That’s what people who are banking on us are looking at. They are looking at the return. They contribute to help us keep our doors open as nonprofits.
 This book is about more how to successfully fund a nonprofit. He is talking about a lot of different areas. He is talking about sustainable funding. It’s important to capture the ideas of what value means to the different audiences that you have. From this perspective, it’s about the people who invest in you. How do you sustain that? What are different funding pathways? What are you open to in terms of learning, in terms of growing, and thinking about what’s important to the people who are writing these checks? Look at the view from the other side of the desk. It doesn’t matter if it’s a corporation or a foundation. Everyone has their motivations. It’s looking at that to figure out what’s important.
 He spent a lot of time doing this. When he wrote ROI for Nonprofits, he looked at a lot of these areas. But from the point he wrote that book to the point he wrote this one, he made some other discoveries along the way in terms of what makes people fundraising-ready. He had criteria. He is a nonprofit consultant who helps people raise more money. He has a 20-question list of criteria he uses to determine if an organization is ready. If they can’t check off on all 20 areas, he won’t take their money. He will talk about which areas need to be shored up and go back to doing that. This book talks about those 20 areas, which are important to fundraisers and establishing that value that you bring. This is a very good book to read. I think when we sit down, we look at the value that we give people who are constituents of ours as a nonprofit. You have the people who directly get the benefits; you have those who write the checks to pay for them. That could be corporations, foundations, government entities, social entrepreneurs, donors. Each of these different groups have a different set of values or perspectives on what’s important. What he is talking about here is understanding that and not changing who you are, but explaining in your own language how you are bringing value and incorporating what matters to them. It’s not necessarily about us if we are doing services for people.
 This is a very good book. Take a few hours to read. This is one you get the highlighter for. There are lots of things to think about and consider. And periodically go back to it and look at some of these things to remind yourself what are some of the questions we should be asking. Are we going to the people that make sense? If someone says, “What gives you the right to ask us for money?” if you have the building blocks in place, it will be pretty clear. This book gives you loads of building blocks.
 Hugh: Russell is the funding guru. He asks the questions that other people don’t ask. Some of what your methodology is is coming out through what you have picked out of this book. What do potential funders want to see? You take it to the board. What do board members want to get out of this? That is important.
 Share with us some of your disciplines for reading books. You have an extensive library. When I talk to you, you often quote books, even in these interviews. What is your discipline? Do you read every day, or a certain time a week?
 Russell: I don’t know if you remember back when our auto industry started having hiccups. They were talking about the concept of just-in-time learning. I found all sorts of fascinating stuff on interest areas. I get a number of services. I’m always looking at books because it’s really important to be open to learning on the fly. Increasing my knowledge base on nonprofits has always been important. New developments take place. Thinking shifts. I continue to collect books. I have library cards in two counties. Public libraries are the best investment running for our tax dollars. I am always on the lookout for new articles, new information, new books. A cross-pollination of ideas across different publications and books. I have run across great TED Talks. There is so much out there. The world is our oyster now thanks to technology, which is aggravating when it doesn’t work, but a thing of beauty when it does. I am constantly learning.
 Readers lead, and I have my nose in a book. I can highlight on a computer. I read with pens and highlighters. A lot of notes in the margins of my hard copies. Some of them are a little dog-eared. I like to read a lot of books on learning. Those are some I can highlight, too.
 As we go along and we are building a resource area, we’d love to hear about what some of you folks out there who tune in are reading. All of you in the community, what are you reading? What do you want to know more about? We’re always open to that, and finding new resources. That is what the community is all about. Sharing that knowledge base and all those wonderful resources that are all out there. Now there is so much information flying at us from all directions. Where do we start? People don’t need new information. They need somebody to help us carve out the most important pieces and assemble it in a way that will help them get to where they need to go. That is one thing I pride myself on being able to do: a possibility engineer.
 Hugh: The possibility engineer. The podcast is supported by sponsors. The sponsor today is SynerVision’s online community for community builders. *Sponsor message*
 We have interviewed Julie Cottineau. Her book is Twist. She is a branding specialist. She was in charge of North American branding for Virgin Airlines and a number of other big deals. Now she does her own brand. Her book is available on Amazon. The full name is Twist: How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands. She has this color theme that goes throughout it. Twist is mentioned on about every page of her book. Lots of color throughout.
 I asked her what are the top three branding mistakes that people make? She said it’s hard to keep it to three. She said the mistakes that nonprofits are making. We talked about not really understanding what a brand is. Confusing your brand with your marketing. That’s a big mistake. Your marketing is how you get your message out there, and your branding is your fundamental story. What are you about? Why should people care? If we think about our favorite movies and books, they have a twist. She develops this concept in the book. I couldn’t put it down when I got it. You could build my nonprofit twist. That’s what you want to do.
 If I only had 10 times the budget, people say. That’s a big mistake. Stop saying that. I could throw 20 times the marketing budget at you, but if your brand isn’t in shape, your fundamental story of who you are, who you serve, and what is different about you, then it’s a waste of money.
 She goes on to say that your brand is not your logo. Your brand is your fundamental story. So many nonprofits will show me this logo as their brand. That is a representation of your brand. Your brand is represented by your logo. That is one way. But most importantly, your brand is your brand promise. Julie has what she calls Brand School. People go through her school, which is a live event, where you do the nuts and bolts of branding.
 On her website, BrandTwist.com, she has the Nike logo. It’s not about sneakers. It’s about their story. On the interview on the podcast, we talk about her points about branding. It’s really a course on branding. When you go to her website, she offers you an evaluation of her brand. It’s called BrandTwist.com. She will do an evaluation. But the book, it helped me understand all that stuff I was doing wrong, Russell. I have a good logo, but that’s not my brand.
 The other part of brand we work with is the culture and leadership. Everyone on your board, everyone in your organization, represents your brand. We have heard of airlines dragging people off seats. That one event by one person did enormous brand damage, as our guest David Corbin said. That was brand slaughter. Next time, we will review his book. It’s out there, makes you think about it seriously. Brand slaughter is when people misbehave or act out of brand promise. They have damaged your brand.
 I recommend Twist. Russell, back to you.
 Russell: She said that twist is your most important tool. There is a lot in there. The questionnaire is brilliant. That is a great book to look at.
 The second book I was looking at was The Foundation Center’s Guide to Proposal Writing. It’s a staple for anybody that writes grants. They wrote the book on that. They are probably the best source bar none for information on foundations and corporate programs that are out there and what they are doing. They talk you through some strategies for working on your proposal and some activities outside of the proposal itself, things that you need to consider while you are putting these proposals together. The meat and potatoes of what they offer, and there are loads of examples of successful proposals that have been submitted, where they show you these particular areas of the proposal they are talking about.
 For grants, you want to make sure you have all of the parts. You want to have your credible programs. There are elements to show you are ready for funding that they address. You have the correct structures in place; you are clear on your mission, vision, and values. They roll into the various parts of the proposal, one being the executive summary. The executive summary is the highlight reel for your proposal. It’s the piece that you would want to write last because it really drills down into what it is that you’re doing, so you want to be clear on that. But it has different pieces in it. What you are looking at in the executive summary, you want to highlight the whole enchilada. What is the problem you are solving? Then describe your solution. How much you need, your organization’s key assets and people. You write this last. That is the first piece.
 The statement of need comes next. It should be short and persuasive. As short and persuasive as you can make it without taking anything away from what you are trying to do. You provide information that supports your cause, your business case, any relevant information like business stats. You collect the best sources of information in that statement of need. What will help you make that case? What information are you gathering? Are you focused on numerical and quantitative stuff, or are you focused on qualitative? For building that need statement, find the most authoritative and recent sources of information you can find so that it adds strength to your proposal.
 The project description will be the longest piece of it. It is your approach to what you are going to do. What you keep in the project description is your objectives. What are the measurable targets you are trying to reach? What are the methods you are going to use to get there? What do you need in terms of staffing and administration? The next piece is evaluation. How do you know what you’re doing is successful? Are you getting the work done? Finally, you address the sustainability piece. Is this going to be an ongoing project, or how are we going to be able to keep this project rolling after the funding piece is gone?
 The next piece is the evaluation. That really gets an area all to itself because this is where measures are important. The view that a lot of people take on the evaluation piece of the puzzle is that we have to check these boxes just to make the funder happy. It’s a necessary evil. But the proper view in my estimation is to think of it as a way to figure out what is working, what is not working, how we can get better at what we do, what’s going on out there, what have we learned based on research that has been done, and can we create our own measures? If you don’t create your own, other people will create them for you. In being unique and doing something unique, the measures that you have in mind may not fit exactly.
 The other thing to keep in mind is can my people use them? Can we employ them in the field? Will they be useful in the field for people who are delivering services? That is a good place to collect information, if it makes sense.
 The key is it all depends on the funder. When you read a request for a proposal—this is the funding agency’s description of what they want to accomplish with their investments—they set some standards and criteria. You want to see if it’s in alignment with what you do. You determine a level and type of valuation that is needed. You determine whether the evaluation is on the project you create. Maybe you create a product or program that moves people to a different place. Or maybe it’s a process. You have to decide if you are evaluating a program, process ,or both. Then there is quantitative data, numerical-based data. We have qualitative data that may be based on people through third-party evaluations or questionnaires. There should be linear when you talk about evaluation from start of the project to end of the project. The evaluation should take place all the way through. When you start off, you should have a vision for where you want people to go. The professional term is the theory of change. What is going to happen when people take advantage of this program we are offering? Where is it going to move them to? It’s a question of funder preferences. You can do this evaluation in-house, or maybe you bring a third party on. A lot of things make sense.
 They also talk about the budget. Of course, your budget ought to be aligned with your objectives. It should be reasonable based on the work you do. There are a lot of expenses. You want to measure those expenses, whether they are new costs or ongoing costs, whether they are direct or indirect. What revenue sources do you have? Here, they talk more about other things because the proposal is to get revenue. When you make a budget, you want to think about revenue. Not only will you be addressing the budget for the project, but most of the time, when you write a proposal, they want to see the budget for the entire organization so they can see how your project fits in with the overall budget. Are they going to be the only people contributing money? How does the money that you’re requesting fit in with the rest of your projects and programs and overall strategy? It’s all about tying the strategy pieces together. That is critical.
 This is probably the only book you will ever need. Me being me, I read all sorts of things on this. But you would be hard-pressed to find a book better than this one that explains to you the process of writing grants.
 Hugh: Awesome. That is your sweet spot, your area of expertise, and experience. I teach transformational leadership, as I’m sure you do. There are two fundamental methodologies that we rally around at SynerVision. Transformational leadership is the culture of an orchestra or choir. It functions at a higher level. In order for that to happen, the leader must function up. The orchestra is a reflection of the conductor. The board and the organization we lead is a reflection of our leadership as a leader. Oftentimes, leaders complain about their boards not functioning in the matter they would expect them to, or how the board functions itself to function. I typically ask what is your role in that? People look at me like I’m crazy. No, you look in the mirror. If the conductor doesn’t get the sound they want, they start looking at themselves. What they see is what I get. They respond to me as a conductor.
 To be an effective transformational leader, there are other books we can review by authors who are long dead, so we can’t interview them. We will talk about Bowen systems. My coach is Roberta Gilbert. She has a number of books on Bowen systems. She is a psychiatrist and has written books about Bowen methodologies. It’s called Bowen Family Systems, and there is a Bowen Institute at Georgetown University. It’s a methodology still unfolding. People write papers and study it. Transformational leadership is dependent on the leader stepping up. Bowen systems is how leaders step up. Those systems are compatible. After 12 years, I still work with Roberta as my personal coach. I continue to read her books over and over. My wife and I have been through this together, and we share things and learn from each other. We learn from experiences. Learning something and living with it for a period of time has maximum impact.
 I would say if you are leading a church or nonprofit, you can’t do it without this book, without this methodology. You cannot be the leader you were created to be without knowing yourself. It’s studying ourselves from our family of origin. In the book, she talks about Bowen’s heritage, what led him from family therapy to this leadership research. She talks about herself and her journey and her work as a colleague of Murray Bowen. Now she is a purist. She teaches exact Bowen theory. There are other people who have rewritten it for their purposes in their books. That’s okay. I have rewritten transformational leadership in my books as a conductor. Ultimately, leaders transform cultures, transform themes. It begins with self-transformation. Extraordinary leadership helps you understand yourself.
 When I first started this, I had written my books, defined my methodology. Everything is working well. Why do I need to study something else? My wife said, “I’m going.” I guess I better go. Just find out what it’s about. It took me a whole year to wrap my head around this. I am a slow learner, but I was too blind with what I was already doing. All of a sudden, it dawned on me that I would be a better leader if I would embrace this. I would be able to transform myself in a more appropriate and direct way. This is more permanent. Over time, we continue to learn.
 In her book, she talks about the eight concepts of Bowen systems. She starts out with triangles, the basic building block of human relationships of three people. They are neither bad nor good; they’re neutral. If anxiety is present, it goes around the triangle. If there is a power play, one person takes a power position in the triangle. When you start seeing things out of balance, look at where the triangles are, and the overlapping triangles.
 The second one is differentiation of self. Who are we? Have we defined our principles for decision-making? Our principles define how we’re going to make decisions. If I am in the face of conflict, I stay calm and approach the conflict open and directly. Stick to the facts. Before this, I avoided conflict, and it got worse. Basic self is adhering to our fundamental guiding principles. Pseudo-self is when we make a decision to please somebody, which is not a good choice. They are never pleased. It tends to irritate them and everybody else when you cave into what other people are pushing you to do. Differentiation of self is how we are not fused with our spouse, our best friend, our parents, our dead parents. We cease to be an individual. Fusion is how we act in a matter that we think the other person wants us to act, and we can’t break out of that.
 There is the multi-generational transmission process. I am the son of a CPA who is the son of a CPA. I broke the thread. It’s very linear: good/bad, left/right. Mom was not linear. What am I? I am a mixture of both. Rigid structure, got to be creative without breaking the rules. Multi-general transmission process. What happens at the graveyard in the little town my mom was in when I was born. The McPhersons, which is my middle name. I heard the stories of multiple generations, and I learned about myself. It’s not bad or good. Just learning about self. There is the family generation process. There is a number of principles, concepts that Bowen identifies. He teaches the concepts.
 The last one is societal degeneration. We are seeing that one play out. He didn’t finish writing that one.
 Sibling position. I am the oldest brother of brothers. He didn’t start this, but he did more research on how we know ourselves based on our family of origins. There is the family generation process, and there is the differentiation of self, which is basically what it’s all about. Who are we? How do we show up? We really show up like we did in our family of origin. So does everybody else. This helps us understand people. We don’t correct other people. We don’t type them. We don’t categorize them. We try to understand them, and we observe behaviors. That helps us observe without getting it on you.
 A couple of Bowen quotes: “That which is created in a relationship can be fixed in a relationship.”
 “You have inherited a lifetime of tribulation. Everybody has inherited it. Take it over. Take the most of it. When you have decided that you know the right way, do the best you can with it.” I said the basic overfunctioning. I meet leaders that say here are the goals, here is how you get there, go to work. They tell people what to do. That is a form of overfunctioning. Never do what someone else can do for themselves. Oh, I always ought to be willing to do stuff that I ask other people to do. The key word is “willing.” Every time you do something, you rob a volunteer of an opportunity to do something they want to do. Back to Russell’s premise earlier. Find out what people want. Let them do it.
 This is the antithesis of Freud. If you see a Freud therapist, he/she says, “How does that make you feel?” Bowen says, “It’s okay to have empathy, but get out of it quickly.” Feeling decisions are faulty decisions. Thinking decisions are well-grounded, principle-based decisions. The goal is to rise up out of the emotional together to find what gathers us all.
 We need to calm down, be in control of ourselves, and be calm and present. He says, “In the history of calming down, has anyone ever calmed down by being told to calm down?” There is a lot of little gems. She quotes Bowen in every chapter.
 I have given you some concepts and some quotes. I think it is an essential book for leaders who want to step up their game and become a much better leader. Russell, what do you think of that?
 Russell: That is an essential part. I went through the transformational leadership program on my journey to becoming a WayFinder. I had never heard of Murray Bowen. When I read this book, it was an eye-opener. The idea that all of these inputs from the family and positioning, it was completely foreign to me. I had no idea. These are things that were driving behavior under the surface. Transformational leadership is an area, a course in itself.
 There are five types of behaviors and standards that transformational leaders set as attributes. They are charismatic in their behaviors; inspirational; intellectually stimulating, they love to teach and help people grow; considerate of individuals; and are real. Very authentic. Authenticity is that fifth piece. This is something that would be great for you to read. It will help you up your leadership game. Leading with influence. Leaders are influencers. They don’t necessarily do everything, but they make sure that things get done.
 Hugh: What is your next book?
 Russell: Knowing as I said before how much people love numbers, the next book is The Nonprofit Budget Builder Toolkit by Mark Mullen. He wrote this book a few years ago. It talks about how to build the budget. What are some of the things you need to consider? It’s not just about expenses. You have revenues. You have different types of budgets. It can be confusing to put together a budget for a nonprofit. A lot of people don’t always understand what their costs are. This book will help walk you through the purpose of a budget, a great overview. Talk about the types of budgets.
 You can have a traditional or a zero-base budget. Zero-base will come from not having any history. They talk about the different categories of funding. You have discretionary, non-discretionary. You have restricted incomes, and others that are unrestricted. Every year, you will be looking at the process of budgeting. If you have a rolling budget, which is tied to your goals and your objectives, it helps build accountability. You’re not just looking at the other things you are evaluating, but money comes into play, too. It shows people what they are getting for their investment.
 Sometimes, in a perfect world, you do the budget, and it stays the same. But sometimes things happen. So you have to revise it on the ground. The key is to have a process for working the budget. This book is very good at giving you a process for doing that. It will also talk about some of the work you need to do up front. If you have a good accountant. A lot of things are driven out of your chart of accounts. Your chart of accounts defines everything that comes in and goes out. Your chart of accounts is where you do this.
 They talk about general accounts. The types of accounts. Asset, liability, income, equity, and expense. There is a little bit of accounting around it. They talk about accounting methods and advantages and disadvantages of them. If you have an accountant on staff, that’s great. But there are full-charge bookkeepers from CPAs to others that you can engage. Fractional CFOs. There are other ways to help you measure. It’s important to keep track of everything.
 What is recommended in here is what we call a rolling budget. You have a projection for what you will have come in and the timing. Then there is what actually comes in and goes out. By building this history of what you project and what actually comes in and goes out, you start getting better. You start recognizing what can drive costs and revenue. You can start to assess your program performance. It’s all about how you do it. There are a number of different types of revenue that go in to a nonprofit. Your programs, you have a block of programs. Some are profitable, and others are not. They talk about how to classify them. That’s important. You have an operational budget, which is your forecast for your services and your operating expenses, your fundraising budget, and your budget statement of financial activities. Then you have the financial budget, which has your cash flow, debt service, investments, and budgeted statement of financial position, your balance sheet. These are the working pieces.
 This is a really good product because it explains briefly but in good detail what all of these items are, and how they fit into what you’re doing. It also talks to you about how to create budgets for specific things. I built some of the models out of here into a fundraising course I put together. Having a good budget process is important. Having people on your board and on staff that understand budgeting is good.
 One of the items in here that people may have issue with is an operating reserve fund. It’s a cash reserve. The common term for it is surplus. It’s having money left over at the end of the year. This is a no-brainer for people that are running businesses. Nonprofit circles don’t think about that. The business term for it is profit. It’s great to have that. You need that rainy day fund. You want to try to work that in because things can shift, particularly if you are dealing with government funding. Even with corporate funding, the economy can change. You want to be prepared for any shifts that might take place and have some revenue to operate in in any unforseen circumstances. One that we have seen a lot is over the last couple of years is weather. You have a weather event that throws everything in your community off. How are you going to be able to reopen your doors? Having a surplus is important.
 What about long-term things? You may need to replace furniture equipment, vehicles. All of these things wear out. You want to have a capital budget for any large purchases that you’re going to make, or repairs to your building. Getting equipment. You never know what sort of things you’re going to need. This particular publication walks you through all of that. You prepare a master budget and program budgets. Everything needs to be tied into your strategic plan, so you have operating and financial budgets.
 This is a wonderful book because there are a lot of graphics in it. You have charts. Show, don’t tell. You can see the flow. All of the information is easy to understand. If you have a financial professional accountant to help you through this process, that is even better. Your budget should be tied to all of your activities.
 Hugh: Wise words indeed. I find lots of deficits. We have a perfect amount of time for the last book. Here is the bonus book. We did interview Don Green at the Napoleon Hill Center. He is published some of Napoleon Hill’s unpublished writings. There are quite a few of them. You and I have been at CEO Space where leadership guru Bob Proctor carries the book out and reads it every day. It’s staying in tune with the philosophy. Jim Rohn said you have to have three books in the library: Think and Grow Rich, As a Man Thinketh, and The Bible. Collections of wisdom.
 Napoleon Hill is Think and Grow Rich. It’s a collection of his philosophies of achievement, his laws of success. He lists the attributes of wealth, and money is the last one. I think there are 13 attributes because he said it’s the least important. We put down money. We think of it as not necessary in the nonprofit world because of the word “nonprofit.” It’s like trying to run a car with no gas. My analogy is the money is the gas for the car. We’re not getting rich. We’re building assets that are the backbone of our stability and our legacy. We’re doing something that will last after we’re gone.
 You read chapter two with the attributes for success: have a definite purpose; do something good that brings value to humankind; keep a positive mental attitude; and surround yourself with successful people. I find there are many people in the work of charities who have never heard of Napoleon Hill and his writings. He did a radio show for many years, and there is a book called Napoleon Hill on the Air that has recently been released. But you can get it on Audible, the audio recordings of him doing things. It is a transcription of his interviews. He is talking about the laws of success and giving him examples. The interviewer asked him pointed questions.
 Think and Grow Rich is chock-full of things. He met Andrew Carnegie, who gave him lessons of introduction to all of his successful friends like Ford, Wanamaker, Woolworth, five presidents, JP Morgan. There were lots and lots of people that Napoleon went in and interviewed. He developed these laws of success.
 He has some quotes throughout the book that are so important. “Great achievement is usually born of great sacrifice. Never a result of selfishness.”
 “Desire is the starting point of all achievement. Not a hope, not a wish, but a keen, pulsating desire which transcends everything.”
 We worry about failing. He said, “Every adversity, every failure, every heartache carries with it the seed of an equal or greater benefit.”
 As you were talking about strategy, “First comes thought. Then the organization of that thought into ideas and plans. Then the transformation of those plans into the reality. The beginning as you observe is in your imagination.” Sometimes that is where we stop.
 Here is the famous one, “What the mind of a person can conceive and believe, it can achieve.” It all starts with a belief system. That’s where it starts. That is one percent inspiration, 99% perspiration. We leverage with other people.
 I find people start out and don’t have a team around them. That is so key. Definite purpose, very clear plan, like you said. Bring something that is valuable to the world. Have a positive mental attitude. Failure is not an option. Surround yourself with people better than you. What my friend Russell Dennis says is if you’re the best person on the team, you better run because you are not going anywhere.
 Russell, you’ve given some great insights. These are great books. We’ll list the books on the webpage. We encourage people to read them. There are a few pennies that benefit SynerVision if you buy on our portal through our Amazon Affiliate Program. Russell, thank you for pulling these books up and sharing some great wisdom today.
 Russell: Yes, it’s been fun. We’ve been kicking this around. I’m glad we got it done. We’d love to hear more about what you’re reading, what’s important to you, what you’ve learned from these books. Think and Grow Rich is where the concept of the mastermind came from, by surrounding yourself with people that are very wise. If I’m the smartest guy in the room, I run and get into another room. I am in the wrong room. Thank you for joining us.
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong><em>The Nonprofit Exchange </em>Book Reviews</strong></h1> <strong>Watch the Episode</strong> <p>[embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kcnaut1Sb4[/embed]</p> Read the Episode <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, we’re back with <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> This time, Russell and I have been wrestling with this for a while. We have had so many great guests that it’s hard for us to find a spot to do this. We wanted to, at least once or twice a year, highlight some great books. Some are from our guests, and some are not. We have six books for you today. The top five, and a bonus book. Greetings, Russell. I will say hi first.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Greetings. Welcome, all of our friends out there on Facebook and everywhere. Thank you for joining us. It’s a great day. I am just moved by all the birthday messages that have come in for me today.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Today?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Today is the day. I wanted to give a shout-out to all the people—business associates, family, friends. Thank you very much. It’s been a great journey, but it’s better because of you. And all the people who join us every week to support <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Congratulations. We’ll try not to embarrass you today. So you have three books, and I have three books. We will share a bit about each book in a brief synopsis. It’s not meant to be a thorough book review. It’s Hugh and Russ lifting out reasons why you should read this book. While we are queuing up, we are talking about leaders reading. Do you want to say more about that?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is part of a growing organization and transformational leaders always evolve. They set the table so that people who are in the organizations can evolve. Personal development is one of the reasons that people might volunteer with you or serve on your board because you’re either growing or going backward. Some would go as far as to say you’re either growing or dying. It’s important to increase that knowledge base. What I’ve discovered as I grow is that I don’t know more every day, but that’s perfectly all right. We want to bring you these resources. We’d like to make it a regular segment. Many of our guests have come on with books. We want to talk to them. Oprah Winfrey did it well with her book club. Maybe some of these people we can bring back to talk about their books because there is so much fascinating literature out there. We have six pretty good picks to talk about today, don’t we, Hugh?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We do. The other part about leaders read is I listen to a lot of podcasts. Our friend Ken Courtright has one called <em>Grow Your Business Today</em>. He says he reads a book with a highlighter. When he goes back and reads it again, he uses a different color highlighter. He highlights different things because he is ready to learn the next thing. I find that to be so very true. There are a lot of challenges. We will highlight six. Maybe in a few months, depending on comments from our listeners, we will highlight a few more. Let’s list the books to get our listeners’ interests up. What are your three? Then I will share my three.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I have three great ones. The first one is <em>Asking Rights</em> by Tom Ralser. He wrote a book before that called <em>Return on Investment for Nonprofits.</em> The second book is <em>The Guide to Proposal Writing</em> from The Foundation Center. It is a classic. It is a staple. It is the book on writing grants. There are a lot out there, but this one is pretty powerful. And because everyone loves numbers so much, I have a wonderful book by Mark Mullen called <em>The Nonprofit Budget Builder Toolkit.</em> Everyone just loves those numbers so much.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is awesome. Mine are more generic. We teach nonprofit leaders to install really good business practices in their organization. The first one is <em>Twist</em> by Julie Cottineau, who we had as a guest a while back. That’s about who we are, our identity, and our promise to people. It’s good for nonprofits to think about that. I don’t guess many do that I have ever known.</p> <p>The second one is a good book by my leadership coach who has been our guest, Roberta Gilbert. The whole leadership methodolog<em>y</em> by psychiatrist Murray Bowen, M.D. It’s called <em>Extraordinary Relationships.</em> It’s the anchor for us knowing ourselves.</p> <p>The third one, and I live in Virginia, and up the road from me is where Napoleon Hill grew up. The Napoleon Hill Foundation. A couple years ago, we had Don Green, who is the executive director of the Napoleon Hill Foundation. I don’t know about you Russell, but I find over and over again that nonprofit leaders have not heard of the work of Napoleon Hill, who interviewed 500 of the top leaders in the world and created this methodology. Those are the three. Which one do you want to start with? Pick one of those awesome books.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I am going to jump right into <em>Asking Rights</em> by Tom Ralsin. One of the questions that people should answer in that: Why should I give you money? It was posed to him early in his career. It’s that view of how do you view the people that fund you? Tom’s premise is that what you really have are investors. I know a lot of people think of donors. Donors are investors. They are partnering with you to make an impact. When you look at monies that people contribute to you, or talent—there is time, talent, and treasure—when people contribute one of these three things or a combination of them, they are making an investment in you and betting on your team. What can you do? You have different groups of investors. Donors are just one type of investor. You have different funders. It could be pure investors or people funding you through grants or sponsors or memberships. Those are people who invest in you.</p> <p>When it comes to funding a nonprofit, what matters is not what the nonprofit themselves thinks. It’s what it is that people are getting. What do the people who are writing the checks think about what it is that you’re doing? They’re investing in you. What are people who are getting the services think? It’s not about us. We always have to have an eye toward whether we are making a profit. I know profit sounds like a dirty word, but Tom talks of it as a return on investment. That’s what people who are banking on us are looking at. They are looking at the return. They contribute to help us keep our doors open as nonprofits.</p> <p>This book is about more how to successfully fund a nonprofit. He is talking about a lot of different areas. He is talking about sustainable funding. It’s important to capture the ideas of what value means to the different audiences that you have. From this perspective, it’s about the people who invest in you. How do you sustain that? What are different funding pathways? What are you open to in terms of learning, in terms of growing, and thinking about what’s important to the people who are writing these checks? Look at the view from the other side of the desk. It doesn’t matter if it’s a corporation or a foundation. Everyone has their motivations. It’s looking at that to figure out what’s important.</p> <p>He spent a lot of time doing this. When he wrote <em>ROI for Nonprofits,</em> he looked at a lot of these areas. But from the point he wrote that book to the point he wrote this one, he made some other discoveries along the way in terms of what makes people fundraising-ready. He had criteria. He is a nonprofit consultant who helps people raise more money. He has a 20-question list of criteria he uses to determine if an organization is ready. If they can’t check off on all 20 areas, he won’t take their money. He will talk about which areas need to be shored up and go back to doing that. This book talks about those 20 areas, which are important to fundraisers and establishing that value that you bring. This is a very good book to read. I think when we sit down, we look at the value that we give people who are constituents of ours as a nonprofit. You have the people who directly get the benefits; you have those who write the checks to pay for them. That could be corporations, foundations, government entities, social entrepreneurs, donors. Each of these different groups have a different set of values or perspectives on what’s important. What he is talking about here is understanding that and not changing who you are, but explaining in your own language how you are bringing value and incorporating what matters to them. It’s not necessarily about us if we are doing services for people.</p> <p>This is a very good book. Take a few hours to read. This is one you get the highlighter for. There are lots of things to think about and consider. And periodically go back to it and look at some of these things to remind yourself what are some of the questions we should be asking. Are we going to the people that make sense? If someone says, “What gives you the right to ask us for money?” if you have the building blocks in place, it will be pretty clear. This book gives you loads of building blocks.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell is the funding guru. He asks the questions that other people don’t ask. Some of what your methodology is is coming out through what you have picked out of this book. What do potential funders want to see? You take it to the board. What do board members want to get out of this? That is important.</p> <p>Share with us some of your disciplines for reading books. You have an extensive library. When I talk to you, you often quote books, even in these interviews. What is your discipline? Do you read every day, or a certain time a week?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I don’t know if you remember back when our auto industry started having hiccups. They were talking about the concept of just-in-time learning. I found all sorts of fascinating stuff on interest areas. I get a number of services. I’m always looking at books because it’s really important to be open to learning on the fly. Increasing my knowledge base on nonprofits has always been important. New developments take place. Thinking shifts. I continue to collect books. I have library cards in two counties. Public libraries are the best investment running for our tax dollars. I am always on the lookout for new articles, new information, new books. A cross-pollination of ideas across different publications and books. I have run across great TED Talks. There is so much out there. The world is our oyster now thanks to technology, which is aggravating when it doesn’t work, but a thing of beauty when it does. I am constantly learning.</p> <p>Readers lead, and I have my nose in a book. I can highlight on a computer. I read with pens and highlighters. A lot of notes in the margins of my hard copies. Some of them are a little dog-eared. I like to read a lot of books on learning. Those are some I can highlight, too.</p> <p>As we go along and we are building a resource area, we’d love to hear about what some of you folks out there who tune in are reading. All of you in the community, what are you reading? What do you want to know more about? We’re always open to that, and finding new resources. That is what the community is all about. Sharing that knowledge base and all those wonderful resources that are all out there. Now there is so much information flying at us from all directions. Where do we start? People don’t need new information. They need somebody to help us carve out the most important pieces and assemble it in a way that will help them get to where they need to go. That is one thing I pride myself on being able to do: a possibility engineer.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The possibility engineer. The podcast is supported by sponsors. The sponsor today is SynerVision’s online community for community builders. *Sponsor message*</p> <p>We have interviewed Julie Cottineau. Her book is <em>Twist.</em> She is a branding specialist. She was in charge of North American branding for Virgin Airlines and a number of other big deals. Now she does her own brand. Her book is available on Amazon. The full name is <em>Twist: How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands.</em> She has this color theme that goes throughout it. Twist is mentioned on about every page of her book. Lots of color throughout.</p> <p>I asked her what are the top three branding mistakes that people make? She said it’s hard to keep it to three. She said the mistakes that nonprofits are making. We talked about not really understanding what a brand is. Confusing your brand with your marketing. That’s a big mistake. Your marketing is how you get your message out there, and your branding is your fundamental story. What are you about? Why should people care? If we think about our favorite movies and books, they have a twist. She develops this concept in the book. I couldn’t put it down when I got it. You could build my nonprofit twist. That’s what you want to do.</p> <p>If I only had 10 times the budget, people say. That’s a big mistake. Stop saying that. I could throw 20 times the marketing budget at you, but if your brand isn’t in shape, your fundamental story of who you are, who you serve, and what is different about you, then it’s a waste of money.</p> <p>She goes on to say that your brand is not your logo. Your brand is your fundamental story. So many nonprofits will show me this logo as their brand. That is a representation of your brand. Your brand is represented by your logo. That is one way. But most importantly, your brand is your brand promise. Julie has what she calls Brand School. People go through her school, which is a live event, where you do the nuts and bolts of branding.</p> <p>On her website, BrandTwist.com, she has the Nike logo. It’s not about sneakers. It’s about their story. On the interview on the podcast, we talk about her points about branding. It’s really a course on branding. When you go to her website, she offers you an evaluation of her brand. It’s called BrandTwist.com. She will do an evaluation. But the book, it helped me understand all that stuff I was doing wrong, Russell. I have a good logo, but that’s not my brand.</p> <p>The other part of brand we work with is the culture and leadership. Everyone on your board, everyone in your organization, represents your brand. We have heard of airlines dragging people off seats. That one event by one person did enormous brand damage, as our guest David Corbin said. That was brand slaughter. Next time, we will review his book. It’s out there, makes you think about it seriously. Brand slaughter is when people misbehave or act out of brand promise. They have damaged your brand.</p> <p>I recommend <em>Twist.</em> Russell, back to you.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> She said that twist is your most important tool. There is a lot in there. The questionnaire is brilliant. That is a great book to look at.</p> <p>The second book I was looking at was The Foundation Center’<em>s Guide to Proposal Writing.</em> It’s a staple for anybody that writes grants. They wrote the book on that. They are probably the best source bar none for information on foundations and corporate programs that are out there and what they are doing. They talk you through some strategies for working on your proposal and some activities outside of the proposal itself, things that you need to consider while you are putting these proposals together. The meat and potatoes of what they offer, and there are loads of examples of successful proposals that have been submitted, where they show you these particular areas of the proposal they are talking about.</p> <p>For grants, you want to make sure you have all of the parts. You want to have your credible programs. There are elements to show you are ready for funding that they address. You have the correct structures in place; you are clear on your mission, vision, and values. They roll into the various parts of the proposal, one being the executive summary. The executive summary is the highlight reel for your proposal. It’s the piece that you would want to write last because it really drills down into what it is that you’re doing, so you want to be clear on that. But it has different pieces in it. What you are looking at in the executive summary, you want to highlight the whole enchilada. What is the problem you are solving? Then describe your solution. How much you need, your organization’s key assets and people. You write this last. That is the first piece.</p> <p>The statement of need comes next. It should be short and persuasive. As short and persuasive as you can make it without taking anything away from what you are trying to do. You provide information that supports your cause, your business case, any relevant information like business stats. You collect the best sources of information in that statement of need. What will help you make that case? What information are you gathering? Are you focused on numerical and quantitative stuff, or are you focused on qualitative? For building that need statement, find the most authoritative and recent sources of information you can find so that it adds strength to your proposal.</p> <p>The project description will be the longest piece of it. It is your approach to what you are going to do. What you keep in the project description is your objectives. What are the measurable targets you are trying to reach? What are the methods you are going to use to get there? What do you need in terms of staffing and administration? The next piece is evaluation. How do you know what you’re doing is successful? Are you getting the work done? Finally, you address the sustainability piece. Is this going to be an ongoing project, or how are we going to be able to keep this project rolling after the funding piece is gone?</p> <p>The next piece is the evaluation. That really gets an area all to itself because this is where measures are important. The view that a lot of people take on the evaluation piece of the puzzle is that we have to check these boxes just to make the funder happy. It’s a necessary evil. But the proper view in my estimation is to think of it as a way to figure out what is working, what is not working, how we can get better at what we do, what’s going on out there, what have we learned based on research that has been done, and can we create our own measures? If you don’t create your own, other people will create them for you. In being unique and doing something unique, the measures that you have in mind may not fit exactly.</p> <p>The other thing to keep in mind is can my people use them? Can we employ them in the field? Will they be useful in the field for people who are delivering services? That is a good place to collect information, if it makes sense.</p> <p>The key is it all depends on the funder. When you read a request for a proposal—this is the funding agency’s description of what they want to accomplish with their investments—they set some standards and criteria. You want to see if it’s in alignment with what you do. You determine a level and type of valuation that is needed. You determine whether the evaluation is on the project you create. Maybe you create a product or program that moves people to a different place. Or maybe it’s a process. You have to decide if you are evaluating a program, process ,or both. Then there is quantitative data, numerical-based data. We have qualitative data that may be based on people through third-party evaluations or questionnaires. There should be linear when you talk about evaluation from start of the project to end of the project. The evaluation should take place all the way through. When you start off, you should have a vision for where you want people to go. The professional term is the theory of change. What is going to happen when people take advantage of this program we are offering? Where is it going to move them to? It’s a question of funder preferences. You can do this evaluation in-house, or maybe you bring a third party on. A lot of things make sense.</p> <p>They also talk about the budget. Of course, your budget ought to be aligned with your objectives. It should be reasonable based on the work you do. There are a lot of expenses. You want to measure those expenses, whether they are new costs or ongoing costs, whether they are direct or indirect. What revenue sources do you have? Here, they talk more about other things because the proposal is to get revenue. When you make a budget, you want to think about revenue. Not only will you be addressing the budget for the project, but most of the time, when you write a proposal, they want to see the budget for the entire organization so they can see how your project fits in with the overall budget. Are they going to be the only people contributing money? How does the money that you’re requesting fit in with the rest of your projects and programs and overall strategy? It’s all about tying the strategy pieces together. That is critical.</p> <p>This is probably the only book you will ever need. Me being me, I read all sorts of things on this. But you would be hard-pressed to find a book better than this one that explains to you the process of writing grants.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Awesome. That is your sweet spot, your area of expertise, and experience. I teach transformational leadership, as I’m sure you do. There are two fundamental methodologies that we rally around at SynerVision. Transformational leadership is the culture of an orchestra or choir. It functions at a higher level. In order for that to happen, the leader must function up. The orchestra is a reflection of the conductor. The board and the organization we lead is a reflection of our leadership as a leader. Oftentimes, leaders complain about their boards not functioning in the matter they would expect them to, or how the board functions itself to function. I typically ask what is your role in that? People look at me like I’m crazy. No, you look in the mirror. If the conductor doesn’t get the sound they want, they start looking at themselves. What they see is what I get. They respond to me as a conductor.</p> <p>To be an effective transformational leader, there are other books we can review by authors who are long dead, so we can’t interview them. We will talk about Bowen systems. My coach is Roberta Gilbert. She has a number of books on Bowen systems. She is a psychiatrist and has written books about Bowen methodologies. It’s called Bowen Family Systems, and there is a Bowen Institute at Georgetown University. It’s a methodology still unfolding. People write papers and study it. Transformational leadership is dependent on the leader stepping up. Bowen systems is how leaders step up. Those systems are compatible. After 12 years, I still work with Roberta as my personal coach. I continue to read her books over and over. My wife and I have been through this together, and we share things and learn from each other. We learn from experiences. Learning something and living with it for a period of time has maximum impact.</p> <p>I would say if you are leading a church or nonprofit, you can’t do it without this book, without this methodology. You cannot be the leader you were created to be without knowing yourself. It’s studying ourselves from our family of origin. In the book, she talks about Bowen’s heritage, what led him from family therapy to this leadership research. She talks about herself and her journey and her work as a colleague of Murray Bowen. Now she is a purist. She teaches exact Bowen theory. There are other people who have rewritten it for their purposes in their books. That’s okay. I have rewritten transformational leadership in my books as a conductor. Ultimately, leaders transform cultures, transform themes. It begins with self-transformation. Extraordinary leadership helps you understand yourself.</p> <p>When I first started this, I had written my books, defined my methodology. Everything is working well. Why do I need to study something else? My wife said, “I’m going.” I guess I better go. Just find out what it’s about. It took me a whole year to wrap my head around this. I am a slow learner, but I was too blind with what I was already doing. All of a sudden, it dawned on me that I would be a better leader if I would embrace this. I would be able to transform myself in a more appropriate and direct way. This is more permanent. Over time, we continue to learn.</p> <p>In her book, she talks about the eight concepts of Bowen systems. She starts out with triangles, the basic building block of human relationships of three people. They are neither bad nor good; they’re neutral. If anxiety is present, it goes around the triangle. If there is a power play, one person takes a power position in the triangle. When you start seeing things out of balance, look at where the triangles are, and the overlapping triangles.</p> <p>The second one is differentiation of self. Who are we? Have we defined our principles for decision-making? Our principles define how we’re going to make decisions. If I am in the face of conflict, I stay calm and approach the conflict open and directly. Stick to the facts. Before this, I avoided conflict, and it got worse. Basic self is adhering to our fundamental guiding principles. Pseudo-self is when we make a decision to please somebody, which is not a good choice. They are never pleased. It tends to irritate them and everybody else when you cave into what other people are pushing you to do. Differentiation of self is how we are not fused with our spouse, our best friend, our parents, our dead parents. We cease to be an individual. Fusion is how we act in a matter that we think the other person wants us to act, and we can’t break out of that.</p> <p>There is the multi-generational transmission process. I am the son of a CPA who is the son of a CPA. I broke the thread. It’s very linear: good/bad, left/right. Mom was not linear. What am I? I am a mixture of both. Rigid structure, got to be creative without breaking the rules. Multi-general transmission process. What happens at the graveyard in the little town my mom was in when I was born. The McPhersons, which is my middle name. I heard the stories of multiple generations, and I learned about myself. It’s not bad or good. Just learning about self. There is the family generation process. There is a number of principles, concepts that Bowen identifies. He teaches the concepts.</p> <p>The last one is societal degeneration. We are seeing that one play out. He didn’t finish writing that one.</p> <p>Sibling position. I am the oldest brother of brothers. He didn’t start this, but he did more research on how we know ourselves based on our family of origins. There is the family generation process, and there is the differentiation of self, which is basically what it’s all about. Who are we? How do we show up? We really show up like we did in our family of origin. So does everybody else. This helps us understand people. We don’t correct other people. We don’t type them. We don’t categorize them. We try to understand them, and we observe behaviors. That helps us observe without getting it on you.</p> <p>A couple of Bowen quotes: “That which is created in a relationship can be fixed in a relationship.”</p> <p>“You have inherited a lifetime of tribulation. Everybody has inherited it. Take it over. Take the most of it. When you have decided that you know the right way, do the best you can with it.” I said the basic overfunctioning. I meet leaders that say here are the goals, here is how you get there, go to work. They tell people what to do. That is a form of overfunctioning. Never do what someone else can do for themselves. Oh, I always ought to be willing to do stuff that I ask other people to do. The key word is “willing.” Every time you do something, you rob a volunteer of an opportunity to do something they want to do. Back to Russell’s premise earlier. Find out what people want. Let them do it.</p> <p>This is the antithesis of Freud. If you see a Freud therapist, he/she says, “How does that make you feel?” Bowen says, “It’s okay to have empathy, but get out of it quickly.” Feeling decisions are faulty decisions. Thinking decisions are well-grounded, principle-based decisions. The goal is to rise up out of the emotional together to find what gathers us all.</p> <p>We need to calm down, be in control of ourselves, and be calm and present. He says, “In the history of calming down, has anyone ever calmed down by being told to calm down?” There is a lot of little gems. She quotes Bowen in every chapter.</p> <p>I have given you some concepts and some quotes. I think it is an essential book for leaders who want to step up their game and become a much better leader. Russell, what do you think of that?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is an essential part. I went through the transformational leadership program on my journey to becoming a WayFinder. I had never heard of Murray Bowen. When I read this book, it was an eye-opener. The idea that all of these inputs from the family and positioning, it was completely foreign to me. I had no idea. These are things that were driving behavior under the surface. Transformational leadership is an area, a course in itself.</p> <p>There are five types of behaviors and standards that transformational leaders set as attributes. They are charismatic in their behaviors; inspirational; intellectually stimulating, they love to teach and help people grow; considerate of individuals; and are real. Very authentic. Authenticity is that fifth piece. This is something that would be great for you to read. It will help you up your leadership game. Leading with influence. Leaders are influencers. They don’t necessarily do everything, but they make sure that things get done.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What is your next book?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Knowing as I said before how much people love numbers, the next book is <em>The Nonprofit Budget Builder Toolkit</em> by Mark Mullen. He wrote this book a few years ago. It talks about how to build the budget. What are some of the things you need to consider? It’s not just about expenses. You have revenues. You have different types of budgets. It can be confusing to put together a budget for a nonprofit. A lot of people don’t always understand what their costs are. This book will help walk you through the purpose of a budget, a great overview. Talk about the types of budgets.</p> <p>You can have a traditional or a zero-base budget. Zero-base will come from not having any history. They talk about the different categories of funding. You have discretionary, non-discretionary. You have restricted incomes, and others that are unrestricted. Every year, you will be looking at the process of budgeting. If you have a rolling budget, which is tied to your goals and your objectives, it helps build accountability. You’re not just looking at the other things you are evaluating, but money comes into play, too. It shows people what they are getting for their investment.</p> <p>Sometimes, in a perfect world, you do the budget, and it stays the same. But sometimes things happen. So you have to revise it on the ground. The key is to have a process for working the budget. This book is very good at giving you a process for doing that. It will also talk about some of the work you need to do up front. If you have a good accountant. A lot of things are driven out of your chart of accounts. Your chart of accounts defines everything that comes in and goes out. Your chart of accounts is where you do this.</p> <p>They talk about general accounts. The types of accounts. Asset, liability, income, equity, and expense. There is a little bit of accounting around it. They talk about accounting methods and advantages and disadvantages of them. If you have an accountant on staff, that’s great. But there are full-charge bookkeepers from CPAs to others that you can engage. Fractional CFOs. There are other ways to help you measure. It’s important to keep track of everything.</p> <p>What is recommended in here is what we call a rolling budget. You have a projection for what you will have come in and the timing. Then there is what actually comes in and goes out. By building this history of what you project and what actually comes in and goes out, you start getting better. You start recognizing what can drive costs and revenue. You can start to assess your program performance. It’s all about how you do it. There are a number of different types of revenue that go in to a nonprofit. Your programs, you have a block of programs. Some are profitable, and others are not. They talk about how to classify them. That’s important. You have an operational budget, which is your forecast for your services and your operating expenses, your fundraising budget, and your budget statement of financial activities. Then you have the financial budget, which has your cash flow, debt service, investments, and budgeted statement of financial position, your balance sheet. These are the working pieces.</p> <p>This is a really good product because it explains briefly but in good detail what all of these items are, and how they fit into what you’re doing. It also talks to you about how to create budgets for specific things. I built some of the models out of here into a fundraising course I put together. Having a good budget process is important. Having people on your board and on staff that understand budgeting is good.</p> <p>One of the items in here that people may have issue with is an operating reserve fund. It’s a cash reserve. The common term for it is surplus. It’s having money left over at the end of the year. This is a no-brainer for people that are running businesses. Nonprofit circles don’t think about that. The business term for it is profit. It’s great to have that. You need that rainy day fund. You want to try to work that in because things can shift, particularly if you are dealing with government funding. Even with corporate funding, the economy can change. You want to be prepared for any shifts that might take place and have some revenue to operate in in any unforseen circumstances. One that we have seen a lot is over the last couple of years is weather. You have a weather event that throws everything in your community off. How are you going to be able to reopen your doors? Having a surplus is important.</p> <p>What about long-term things? You may need to replace furniture equipment, vehicles. All of these things wear out. You want to have a capital budget for any large purchases that you’re going to make, or repairs to your building. Getting equipment. You never know what sort of things you’re going to need. This particular publication walks you through all of that. You prepare a master budget and program budgets. Everything needs to be tied into your strategic plan, so you have operating and financial budgets.</p> <p>This is a wonderful book because there are a lot of graphics in it. You have charts. Show, don’t tell. You can see the flow. All of the information is easy to understand. If you have a financial professional accountant to help you through this process, that is even better. Your budget should be tied to all of your activities.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wise words indeed. I find lots of deficits. We have a perfect amount of time for the last book. Here is the bonus book. We did interview Don Green at the Napoleon Hill Center. He is published some of Napoleon Hill’s unpublished writings. There are quite a few of them. You and I have been at CEO Space where leadership guru Bob Proctor carries the book out and reads it every day. It’s staying in tune with the philosophy. Jim Rohn said you have to have three books in the library: <em>Think and Grow Rich, As a Man Thinketh,</em> and The Bible. Collections of wisdom.</p> <p>Napoleon Hill is <em>Think and Grow Rich.</em> It’s a collection of his philosophies of achievement, his laws of success. He lists the attributes of wealth, and money is the last one. I think there are 13 attributes because he said it’s the least important. We put down money. We think of it as not necessary in the nonprofit world because of the word “nonprofit.” It’s like trying to run a car with no gas. My analogy is the money is the gas for the car. We’re not getting rich. We’re building assets that are the backbone of our stability and our legacy. We’re doing something that will last after we’re gone.</p> <p>You read chapter two with the attributes for success: have a definite purpose; do something good that brings value to humankind; keep a positive mental attitude; and surround yourself with successful people. I find there are many people in the work of charities who have never heard of Napoleon Hill and his writings. He did a radio show for many years, and there is a book called <em>Napoleon Hill on the Air</em> that has recently been released. But you can get it on Audible, the audio recordings of him doing things. It is a transcription of his interviews. He is talking about the laws of success and giving him examples. The interviewer asked him pointed questions.</p> <p><em>Think and Grow Rich</em> is chock-full of things. He met Andrew Carnegie, who gave him lessons of introduction to all of his successful friends like Ford, Wanamaker, Woolworth, five presidents, JP Morgan. There were lots and lots of people that Napoleon went in and interviewed. He developed these laws of success.</p> <p>He has some quotes throughout the book that are so important. “Great achievement is usually born of great sacrifice. Never a result of selfishness.”</p> <p>“Desire is the starting point of all achievement. Not a hope, not a wish, but a keen, pulsating desire which transcends everything.”</p> <p>We worry about failing. He said, “Every adversity, every failure, every heartache carries with it the seed of an equal or greater benefit.”</p> <p>As you were talking about strategy, “First comes thought. Then the organization of that thought into ideas and plans. Then the transformation of those plans into the reality. The beginning as you observe is in your imagination.” Sometimes that is where we stop.</p> <p>Here is the famous one, “What the mind of a person can conceive and believe, it can achieve.” It all starts with a belief system. That’s where it starts. That is one percent inspiration, 99% perspiration. We leverage with other people.</p> <p>I find people start out and don’t have a team around them. That is so key. Definite purpose, very clear plan, like you said. Bring something that is valuable to the world. Have a positive mental attitude. Failure is not an option. Surround yourself with people better than you. What my friend Russell Dennis says is if you’re the best person on the team, you better run because you are not going anywhere.</p> <p>Russell, you’ve given some great insights. These are great books. We’ll list the books on the webpage. We encourage people to read them. There are a few pennies that benefit SynerVision if you buy on our portal through our Amazon Affiliate Program. Russell, thank you for pulling these books up and sharing some great wisdom today.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yes, it’s been fun. We’ve been kicking this around. I’m glad we got it done. We’d love to hear more about what you’re reading, what’s important to you, what you’ve learned from these books. <em>Think and Grow Rich</em> is where the concept of the mastermind came from, by surrounding yourself with people that are very wise. If I’m the smartest guy in the room, I run and get into another room. I am in the wrong room. Thank you for joining us.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Community Groups Can Be Accountable w/Suzanne Smith</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/community-groups-can-be-accountable-wsuzanne-smith</link>
      <description>Community Groups Can Be Accountable
 Why community organizations struggle with accounting and what we can do about it Interview with Suzanne Smith Suzanne Smith has lived and worked abroad for over 20 years. Her focus is on training and capacity building. She began as a Peace Corps Volunteer in Niger, working at a rural clinic and focusing on child survival. She went on to work in Bangladesh and then Mozambique, where she managed a microcredit program. She then turned her focus to working with community groups, village health workers and nurses, to strengthen outreach and organizational capacity in the midst of the HIV/AIDS pandemic.
 Suzanne has worked in Afghanistan, where she helped design and then implemented a life and work skills training for female high school teachers as part of USAID’s PROMOTE.
 She likes to distill complicated processes to their essence and create systems that are simple and easy to understand. Her trainings are accessible, fun, engaging, and most importantly she makes sure people leave feeling good about themselves and confident in their ability to learn new things
 Suzanne founded Accountable Partners to make sure community based organizations have the systems, skills and support they need to account for donor funds accurately and transparently, to the last dollar spent.
 Oftentimes small partners simply do not know how to fulfill a donor’s accounting requirements. More and more, International Donors and NGOs are partnering with small community organizations to achieve their development goals. While programs are being funded and progress is being made, too often these small partners fail to satisfy their donor’s accounting requirements – requirements that are necessary to a fulfill donor’s fiduciary responsibility. Without clear and accurate financial reports from their partners, donors hesitate to disburse the larger funds necessary to scale up activities, and sometimes small partners may lose their funding entirely. Accountable Partners developed a simplified accounting system specifically for small community organizations. We then created The Accountable Partners Academy so we could teach it. The Academy provides NGO/donor field staff with the knowledge, skills, and tools they need to train their small partners in simplified accounting. We know that simple is transparent, simple is accessible and simple is sustainable. The result of our Academy is accurate and transparent financial reports from small partners to their donors.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 14 Jul 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/780074d0-b329-11eb-9f0f-0382fcf375f7/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Why community organizations struggle with accounting and what we can do about it</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Community Groups Can Be Accountable
 Why community organizations struggle with accounting and what we can do about it Interview with Suzanne Smith Suzanne Smith has lived and worked abroad for over 20 years. Her focus is on training and capacity building. She began as a Peace Corps Volunteer in Niger, working at a rural clinic and focusing on child survival. She went on to work in Bangladesh and then Mozambique, where she managed a microcredit program. She then turned her focus to working with community groups, village health workers and nurses, to strengthen outreach and organizational capacity in the midst of the HIV/AIDS pandemic.
 Suzanne has worked in Afghanistan, where she helped design and then implemented a life and work skills training for female high school teachers as part of USAID’s PROMOTE.
 She likes to distill complicated processes to their essence and create systems that are simple and easy to understand. Her trainings are accessible, fun, engaging, and most importantly she makes sure people leave feeling good about themselves and confident in their ability to learn new things
 Suzanne founded Accountable Partners to make sure community based organizations have the systems, skills and support they need to account for donor funds accurately and transparently, to the last dollar spent.
 Oftentimes small partners simply do not know how to fulfill a donor’s accounting requirements. More and more, International Donors and NGOs are partnering with small community organizations to achieve their development goals. While programs are being funded and progress is being made, too often these small partners fail to satisfy their donor’s accounting requirements – requirements that are necessary to a fulfill donor’s fiduciary responsibility. Without clear and accurate financial reports from their partners, donors hesitate to disburse the larger funds necessary to scale up activities, and sometimes small partners may lose their funding entirely. Accountable Partners developed a simplified accounting system specifically for small community organizations. We then created The Accountable Partners Academy so we could teach it. The Academy provides NGO/donor field staff with the knowledge, skills, and tools they need to train their small partners in simplified accounting. We know that simple is transparent, simple is accessible and simple is sustainable. The result of our Academy is accurate and transparent financial reports from small partners to their donors.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Community Groups Can Be Accountable</strong></h1> <strong><em>Why community organizations struggle with accounting and what we can do about it Interview with Suzanne Smit</em>h</strong> <p><a href="http://accountablepartners.com/"></a>Suzanne Smith has lived and worked abroad for over 20 years. Her focus is on training and capacity building. She began as a Peace Corps Volunteer in Niger, working at a rural clinic and focusing on child survival. She went on to work in Bangladesh and then Mozambique, where she managed a microcredit program. She then turned her focus to working with community groups, village health workers and nurses, to strengthen outreach and organizational capacity in the midst of the HIV/AIDS pandemic.</p> <p>Suzanne has worked in Afghanistan, where she helped design and then implemented a life and work skills training for female high school teachers as part of USAID’s PROMOTE.</p> <p>She likes to distill complicated processes to their essence and create systems that are simple and easy to understand. Her trainings are accessible, fun, engaging, and most importantly she makes sure people leave feeling good about themselves and confident in their ability to learn new things</p> <p>Suzanne founded Accountable Partners to make sure community based organizations have the systems, skills and support they need to account for donor funds accurately and transparently, to the last dollar spent.</p> <p>Oftentimes small partners simply do not know how to fulfill a donor’s accounting requirements. More and more, International Donors and NGOs are partnering with small community organizations to achieve their development goals. While programs are being funded and progress is being made, too often these small partners fail to satisfy their donor’s accounting requirements – requirements that are necessary to a fulfill donor’s fiduciary responsibility. Without clear and accurate financial reports from their partners, donors hesitate to disburse the larger funds necessary to scale up activities, and sometimes small partners may lose their funding entirely. Accountable Partners developed a simplified accounting system specifically for small community organizations. We then created The Accountable Partners Academy so we could teach it. The Academy provides NGO/donor field staff with the knowledge, skills, and tools they need to train their small partners in simplified accounting. We know that simple is transparent, simple is accessible and simple is sustainable. The result of our Academy is accurate and transparent financial reports from small partners to their donors.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>The Less You Work the More You Make with Jarrod Haning</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-less-you-work-the-more-you-make-with-jarrod-haning</link>
      <description>The Less You Work the More You Make with Jarrod Haning
 As an award-winning speaker, Jarrod Haningtrains companies in the psychology of music. When you know how music creates inspiration in you, then you know how to create inspiration in other people. By revealing the subconscious mechanism that drives our emotional response to music and language, Jarrod is able to give his audiences some very unique tools for increasing their income and influence.
 My clients normally double their income in the first year by PURPOSELY working less hours. I know that sounds like snake oil, but we use a Nobel Nominated map to make it happen.
 Using a to-do list reduces your productivity.
 Being focused on getting things done reduces your income (or in the case of non-profit, dramatically reduces your fund raising power)
 It's crucial that you understand why it's true that the less you do the more you make. If you care about your mission, if you want to reach more people and make a bigger difference then we HAVE to get you in the mindset of highly effective leaders.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 07 Jul 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7821f61e-b329-11eb-9f0f-f751daf37a01/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Less You Work the More You Make with Jarrod Haning As an award-winning speaker, Jarrod Haningtrains companies in the psychology of music. When you know how music creates inspiration in you, then you know how to create inspiration in other people....</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Less You Work the More You Make with Jarrod Haning
 As an award-winning speaker, Jarrod Haningtrains companies in the psychology of music. When you know how music creates inspiration in you, then you know how to create inspiration in other people. By revealing the subconscious mechanism that drives our emotional response to music and language, Jarrod is able to give his audiences some very unique tools for increasing their income and influence.
 My clients normally double their income in the first year by PURPOSELY working less hours. I know that sounds like snake oil, but we use a Nobel Nominated map to make it happen.
 Using a to-do list reduces your productivity.
 Being focused on getting things done reduces your income (or in the case of non-profit, dramatically reduces your fund raising power)
 It's crucial that you understand why it's true that the less you do the more you make. If you care about your mission, if you want to reach more people and make a bigger difference then we HAVE to get you in the mindset of highly effective leaders.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>The Less You Work the More You Make with Jarrod Haning</h1> <p>As an award-winning speaker, <strong>Jarrod Haning</strong>trains companies in the psychology of music. When you know how music creates inspiration in you, then you know how to create inspiration in other people. By revealing the subconscious mechanism that drives our emotional response to music and language, Jarrod is able to give his audiences some very unique tools for increasing their income and influence.</p> <p>My clients normally double their income in the first year by PURPOSELY working less hours. I know that sounds like snake oil, but we use a Nobel Nominated map to make it happen.</p> <p>Using a to-do list reduces your productivity.</p> <p>Being focused on getting things done reduces your income (or in the case of non-profit, dramatically reduces your fund raising power)</p> <p>It's crucial that you understand why it's true that the less you do the more you make. If you care about your mission, if you want to reach more people and make a bigger difference then we HAVE to get you in the mindset of highly effective leaders.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3223</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The 5 Top Secrets of Unstoppable Leaders with Rocio Perez</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-5-top-secrets-of-unstoppable-leaders-with-rocio-perez</link>
      <description>Rocio Perez is an executive leader with more than 20 years of experience providing relevant insight to leaders around the world. She has delivered hundreds of inspiring and life-changing leadership trainings, keynotes and presentations to people around the world. Rocío helps leaders gain confidence, presence and step into their personal power, pave their own way, discover and eliminate their blind spots, spark self-awareness and maximize their overall impact.
 More…
  
 Read the Interview Hugh Ballou:  Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Russell, our guest today is somebody that you connected us with. How are you doing today, Russ?
 Russell Dennis: I’m fine. It’s beautiful out here in Denver, Colorado, where my guest is. She is just a remarkable woman who is a master around leadership. She has a very interesting journey that everybody should know about. Her book really describes her in general. She has a book called Unstoppable. That describes Rocio Perez, who will tell us about who she is. Welcome. It’s always good to see ya.
 Rocio: Russell, always a wonderful pleasure. Hugh, thank you for the invitation to be on your show today. I’m very excited. I’ll tell you a little bit about who I am, and then we’ll go back to what made me who I am. I am an international leadership expert and have worked with individuals all the way from Denver to Singapore and Korea. I love helping people create an extraordinary vision in their life. I love helping them get unstuck. All of us get stuck in one way or another in our careers. My goal is always to allow people to see how amazing they are so that they can have an extraordinary life. That has been one of the most exciting things I have done.
 I have been working with people since I was 17 years old. It’s been a long time. It’s been an extraordinary journey over 24 years watching people. By 19, I was guiding 160-200 people at a time and taking them from where they were at in their goals and their dreams to be educated in their careers to where they’re at today. I have seen remarkable things all over the world. That’s been very thrilling to watch people open up their businesses, thriving businesses, and lead their team members into extraordinary amounts of success. Yet it did not start there. That’s where my journey to Unstoppable comes through.
 I started off growing up in extreme circumstances as a child. By the time I was 12, given those circumstances, I looked at different things in life. I left home. I ran away from home at the age of 12. I’m sure there are a lot of people who wonder. I hear all the time, “How did you do that?” I had a vision. I had a dream. Ever since I was a little girl, I wanted to inspire people. I would run around with my uncle Sergio and say, “Some day, I’m going to grow up and become a teacher so I can inspire people.” Whether I was born with that or I picked it up somewhere, I don’t know. What I do know is that drew me closer and closer to him.
 By the time I was 14, I ran away. I was pregnant at 14 and a mom by 15. And at that age, I was also knocking on the university doors to let me in so I could fulfill that dream. With my 6th grade education, showing up there, they’re like, “Who are you? What are you doing here?” One of the things I can tell you is I was relentless at knowing I wanted to go to school. The only answer I could hear, I could accept was, “Yes, this is when you start.”
 That led me on an extraordinary journey at the age of 17 starting college. The track was difficult, guys. It was very difficult. It was an eight-hour track on a daily basis. Getting up at three o’clock in the morning so I could start my trek at four am to be at class by eight am was definitely something that unstoppable leaders are made of. I look back at that part of my life and think how amazing was that. I didn’t think about that. This is what needs to be done. That’s it.
 I’m happy to say that along the way from the age of 19 forward, I have led thousands and thousands of people. I became a serial entrepreneur. I did what seems to be impossible in the eyes of many individuals who were saying, “That’s not possible. How can a person with your background make it?” I have been in homes of very important global leaders, in front of ambassadors of countries, presented to members of Parliament. I have done extraordinary things. It was all based on the belief of what made me unstoppable and what made the people I have guided throughout the years unstoppable today. My son is 28 years old, which sometimes I can’t even believe. I have a four-year-old grandson named Emilio who continues to inspire me and helps me move forward as I continue to build businesses and help them get unstuck in greater levels of success and help them move forward in everything they’re doing, making an impact on this world.
 Hugh: What a story. What a story. Show us that book again. You just happen to have it handy.
 Rocio: I do. This book is all over the world. It made international bestseller in less than 12 hours from the moment that the book was launched. One of the things I can tell you, Hugh, is it’s been an answer to what a lot of people were asking: “Rocio, what can I do to help myself?” As I was getting off stages, whether it was Ph. Ds or MDs or 123s or ABCs, whatever it was. Whoever was getting off the stage wanted to get an answer. Besides coaching one on one or group coaching, here is another opportunity. This book has brought a lot of hope, a lot of transformation to people. It’s been exciting to hear people who have had up to 33 businesses saying, “Because of this book and what I got out of it, I am doing business differently moving forward.” That has been touching, humbling, inspirational.
 Hugh: Tell us how you came up with that title, Unstoppable.
 Rocio: It’s what I’ve always done. That’s my domain. I am unstoppable by nature, unstoppable by desire, unstoppable. I was sitting here as I was writing a memoir. The next version of my memoir, which will be released next year. What can I do? Besides answering the call. What is that message that we all have inside of all of us? In my experience, it was the fact that working with so many people all over the world, the one thing they sometimes couldn’t see, because I have been there and done that, I know what it’s like not to see my own greatness in front of others. Sometimes they couldn’t see it. They couldn’t see their unstoppable nature. They couldn’t see all of the amazing things they have done, how they have borrowed from the past. We were all meant to be unstoppable. Nine out of ten people are unstoppable and don’t know it. For me, it’s just to turn back that mirror and say, “Have you seen yourself?” The moment they see themselves, we go through a subtle process. When they see themselves fully, they become unstoppable. They own their unstoppable nature.
 Hugh: That is a compelling title. The rest of the title, and I found that on Facebook. What is the rest of the title?
 Rocio: Seven Steps to Becoming a More Intentional Leader.
 Hugh: I found it on Amazon, I meant. A more intentional leader. Do you want to highlight those seven steps?
 Rocio: Most definitely. I’ll talk about the first three steps that are really important. Let’s understand ourselves. Let’s understand how our mind works. That is the first and most important thing. Knowing that our subconscious mind is there to preserve and protect our life. I don’t have to speak about how many times our heart is going to beat. There is an intelligence inside all of us. When we understand that, and we understand that we are all meant for greatness, we are all destined for greatness, we can go ahead and hijack our own success, even in those moments we don’t think we’re unstoppable.
 The steps that are very important after knowing that is what is it that I must be aware of? Fostering that awareness and that capacity to change that we all have. We can all transform no matter where we start from. Knowing if this little girl who would run around barefoot thinking of only a dream would be possible, then it’s possible for all of us. It’s possible for one; it’s possible for all. I have proved it thousands and thousands of times over and over again.
 Having that incisive discovery and accelerating my insight. How do I work with the people who already know that I can continue to learn? Who I am today is not who I must be in order for me to have what I want to have or be where I want to be.
 The next step, which is the third step, is I must know where I am going. Just like I knew where I was going. I wanted to become that teacher. I held that road map. No matter who came along, whether Ann or Billy or Dave or whomever was there, I held my own map and said, “This is where I’m going.” Whoever didn’t pay attention, it didn’t matter. I just moved on to the next person and said, “This is where I’m going.” Sounds like you have a question right there, Hugh.
 Hugh: No, I’m just resonating- I was practicing my R. I’m Southern. This is fascinating. Go ahead. I am going to have Russell jump in on the next question. These are really important steps. What I was also thinking, there is a lot of resonance with what we teach at SynerVision.
 Rocio: Beautiful. In that, too, is speeding up my personal evolution. They all go hand in hand. How do I accelerate? How do I become more aware of what’s going on? Today, more than any other time in history, three things to me are super important.
 One is my auto leadership. How am I going to be leading myself? I hold the map. I take it wherever I go. Who is the most important person in our lives? We are. We know where we’re going. We are the ones who are going to make that commitment and move forward.
 Two is being that intentional leader. How do I get there? It’s about going through it over and over again, necessarily that I have to be intentional about everything I do. I have a level 10 goal. I can’t give it 9.99 because that doesn’t get me through the finish line. What is going to bring me to the finish line? Understanding sometimes that intention is being in positive places.
 Let me leave you with a picture here that was painted very vividly in my mind. You can get through the finish line of a marathon running with 100 people than with three people on your back. When you think about that intentionality, am I in a place that supported me? If I’m not, how do I create that for myself? Nothing happens to us; it only happens through us. Where do I go? How do I do this? How did that happen for me?
 The third step is being that aware leader. What am I aware of? What is happening in my life? How am I creating my reality? What is it I have created over and over again? We can think about a thought. The only thing that distinguishes us from a horse or a puppy or whatever that may be is the fact that we have the ability to be able to think and think very vividly and create that. Whatever it is we can think about, we can think and bring it to fruition. That is important to know because if our thoughts are positive, fantastic. High five. If our thoughts are negative, what is the impact of those negative thoughts on what will happen in our lives? We are thinking negative. We don’t know about negative. We are wondering why we are getting negative results. It’s about thinking about hey, we have anywhere from 55,000-75,000 thoughts a day. Whether those thoughts are negative or positive depends on what we are into that moment, that day.
 That very next step for me is creating that road map. I know where I’m going. Those three things are important. Now I know where I’m going. I can get there because I can look at that map and know what does it look like every step of the way, and being comfortable with adjusting that. Sometimes we get caught up in it has to be this way, yet it may not. Maybe somebody comes in and short-tracks your entire learning right there. It takes you from Point A to Point Z immediately. Yet if we were to be married to the way things are supposed to be, it’s not going to happen. It may be a long journey, or it may not even happen. If it does, you may not be happy with the process because we put so much effort into it.
 It’s fascinating to see that. I have seen it over and over again. For instance, when I work with clients, individuals come to me and say, “I want to make more money.” Before they came to me, they had already jumped out of their business, or they took a leap of faith and didn’t have a parachute. That is destructive to see. You must have something that you know whether you’re very centered or grounded. Whether it’s the finances that support you through the process, or it’s just the belief and the action that will take you to your success.
 The next one is taking that massive action. I have been relentless in taking action my entire life. Getting on a bus, waking up at three o’clock in the morning after I went to sleep at midnight, it’s not something that normal people do. As I hear it from my friends, I like to say that I’m fab-normal because I’m willing to do whatever it takes. That relentlessness and resourcefulness.
 Something came up right here. Even the word “resentful.” To understand the impact of the words in our world. When a person holds onto feelings, those feelings actually have an impact in our world. What does that impact in our world? That can be detrimental. If I’m holding onto resentment, it’s like drinking poison and expecting somebody else to get hurt in the process, which is one of the worst things that anybody could ever do. To me, it’s blessing that person. I hope that person has an extraordinary time. Yes, it may have cost me time, energy, resources, whatever it may be. I just bless that person and hope that person is in a better place. I truly do. I can move forward.
 The very last part of it is understanding I must come back and evaluate my process. What does that look like? Does it look like I am tweaking it? Am I testing, tracking what my progress is along the way and making adjustments? I have been caught up in certain parts of my life. Things are going rough, and things happen. We have a setback. What does that look like to be aware that that also has an impact in the way we are thinking and living life?
 Russell: All critical stuff for any leader who wants to move forward. These are a lot of things we discuss with people at SynerVision in moving forward. We all have challenges. There are a lot of challenges. You have overcome some great ones. Most people I talk to have overcome some great challenges and don’t always recognize the magnitude of what they have come through. That’s important.
 Nonprofit leaders are people with a big vision. They want to change the world. Some of them have a lot of these attributes, and the mindset is critical, as you have talked about. What are some of the ways that you have seen leaders you have worked with- If there were what you call three greatest hits for the ways that leaders get in their own way, what would those be?
 Rocio: I would say the mindset is probably one of the biggest things in that. That is one of the biggest things that inspired me about our previous conversations and this one as well is looking at how am I getting in the way? Sometimes we hear things we intake from other people. That’s why I shared earlier that we must be intentional about who we’re around. If people are not supporting my vision, then I must look for a group that supports my vision. No matter the way we think about it, we start intaking it. It’s like somebody coming in and throwing garbage on our bed. Would we like that? They throw it little by little by little. Sure enough in time, that bed will be filthy. We are not going to know where to start. Number one is to find a place that supports you in your vision.
 The other thing is to believe in the fact that there are good people in this world who are willing to help. Here you are, Russell and Hugh. The fact that you’re here to guide individuals, you know the way, you can lead the way, and short-track people’s success. You can go even faster. You can go the fast track or the slow track. What do you want? That’s what I ask my clients, too. What would you like to do? I can take you on any journey. What journey do you want to be on? Do you want to be on the jet that will give you immediate success, or do you want to be on the horse? That’s up to you. I will take you whatever way. I am here to be of service.
 Know to stay focused on the vision. What is the vision? The vision you came into this nonprofit organization with, the reason why you set it up, who you are going to help will help you to continue to get up every morning and to know that’s what you’re moving toward. Focus on the feeling of what it is you are looking to accomplish, whether that is an individual, a city, a country, the world, whatever it is that is important to you. Focus on the feeling of what it would be like. That is one of the things we don’t focus on enough. We are focused on things are going haywire as opposed to that will feel amazing, that will get me up every single morning. There are mornings I get up, “I am here to serve. I am here to serve the people who are ready to be served.” In that, that inspires me to get up, to get on the stage, to show up every single time whether there is one person in that audience who hears that message, or 100 people who hear it. It’s about showing up and having that belief that gives us the confidence that the more we do it, the easier it becomes.
 Russell: That’s what possibility engineering is about. That’s why I am one. There is always a way around something. We can find it with the right support. Becoming what Hugh calls a transformational leader is intentional. It’s deliberate. It’s no accident. Do all people have a capacity to be good leaders? Or is it something you have to be born with?
 Rocio: For me, we are all leaders. We are all meant to be leaders. We are leaders of our own life. Let’s be honest. The morning we wake up, we are the CEO of our own company, the financial officer. We are leading ourselves. All of a sudden, somebody put this title up here when in reality it’s there for all of us. We are all leaders in our own way in our own lives.
 Stepping into leadership to lead others is also when we take some of those fundamentals into life, let’s say that for leadership, I am a mom. Which I am. Looking at that, how do I guide a team? How would I guide them? Do I treat them with empathy and compassion? Do I listen and ask, “Hey Russell, is everything okay? I see the project is not completed on time. Is everything okay? Anything going on with you?” Whether I can help you fix that problem, it also gives you an opportunity to say, I don’t need to hide, because we hide. Whether we realize it or not, because we have been taught not to bring our home selves into work, which also has a huge impact. We can have many conversations. That piece alone, when we are siloing ourselves, here is who I am at work, here is who I am in real life. No, here is who I am as a complete and whole being. Yes, we are all capable of being those extraordinary leaders. Let’s bring some fundamentals. How would we treat our children? Do we want to treat them with empathy and compassion, love, connection? Are there any throwaway people? Not really. Are there any throwaway kids? No, no. In reality, have I found something that connects and inspires them to continue to move forward in the direction of their dreams and their vision?
 Russell: That sounds like some of the ways a nonprofit leader can lead with a vision. What are the three most important things that a leader can do, especially in the nonprofit sphere, to help make his/her team unstoppable?
 Rocio: Encourage self-care. Mindfulness is so important. All of the years I have been around nonprofits simultaneously in 24 years, I have seen the impact of an individual, the burnout. Their heart is in the right place. They want to make an impact on the world. Sometimes, as leaders, we are not consciously aware that they’re running themselves ragged. That is because we have already run ourselves ragged that we are not connected to that. We are numb to the fact they are doing that. Encouraging self-care is important.
 Check in with people. Connect with them. Get to know them. Ask them questions about their lives. Really get to know them. That is big in my world is to get to know people. Sit down for coffee. Get to know what their vision is. One thing is to know them. How am I going to get to where I want to be? More than a decade ago, I read a book about leadership, and I always thought how I would be the day I became a leader in my organization. What would that look like? I would listen to people. Get to know who you are. This is for me now. I want to get to know who you are. What’s important to you? What would success look like? What do you not have right now that you would have that would light your world up, make it worthwhile? When I know that, I can help that person, as they are helping me to get to my vision, get to their vision.
 This is not a one-way street. Just because somebody is getting paid does that mean they are disregarded. The fact is they are giving you the most precious thing they have, which is time. You can get anything from anyone. That time that person is giving you cannot be replaced by anybody. We have a certain bucket of hours. We don’t know when our time is called. That is why it makes it so special. Get to know people. Form those relationships. Take time to form those relationships, not just inside your organization, but outside your organization. A lot of people walk around and say, “Marketing is only one person’s responsibility,” when marketing is a way of communication for all of us.
 Hugh: Russell, we got to the halfway point here. We titled our interview “The Five Top Secrets of Unstoppable Leaders.” You shared your seven steps to becoming an intentional leader. I am curious. Are you curious? Let’s see what those five top secrets are.
 Rocio: Number one is getting to know myself. Every intentional leader gets to know who they are. They get to know what limits them, what drives them, what excites them, what blocks them. That is so important. First and foremost, get to know yourself. As you get to know yourself, you can get to know others and come from a place of empathy and compassion, and in some cases, ruthless compassion. Get to know yourself. That way, you can get to know others.
 Hijack your mind. If you can hijack your mind, intentional leaders hijack their mind. They take their learning into their own hands. They are constantly learning from people.
 Hugh: That’s #2?
 Rocio: #2. Continuous learning. Hijacking your mind, and learning from anybody you can learn. There is not just one way of doing things. That is learning more about you. How does that work for you?
 The next step is showing up from intention with everything that I do. If you look at those three things of leadership that are close to me, the intentionality. If I know I am working with Russell, and I know Russell wants to send his kids to college, Princeton and Yale specifically, how can I help him every day to show up with intention in everything that I do for him? It’s not just me; it’s him.
 Show up from a place of authenticity, with those values that are so important, connection, vulnerability. What a concept. When people know me as an individual- Let me share one thing on that. I used to speak from a stage. You can give me any topic I’m familiar with, and I did an extraordinary job. When I tell you, when I started to share about me and my journey and where I had been, people would follow me. That was so different because it took something from me to be so vulnerable. I thought that that vulnerability was something that wasn’t supposed to be shown. The moment you show up from a place of authenticity, vulnerability, connection, story, there is a relatedness within others that you can connect with.
 Showing up with energy, extraordinary energy. Nobody talks about energy. We see leaders from the stage talking and expressing, yet their expressions don’t match what they want us to see from the audience. That is key. It’s very different. I can come in and tell my son, “Son, I really love you,” or I can lean in, “Son, I really love you.” Same intonation. My body speaks louder than words. When we can show up from that place, “It is fantastic to get to know you. It is fantastic to get to be here with you,” that is a different story. When we can look somebody in the eye and ground that person because they have lived whatever is going on in that day, that is what leaders really do. They focus on that individual and pay attention to what that person is going through because they are the most important person in front of them in that moment, just like you are, and each person that I stood in front of before is the most important person in the moment because we all are.
 Russell: That’s critical. Those are great attributes for people to have to become unstoppable. I had thought of an acronym for hijack. I remember writing a piece quite some time ago. I have to gout and find that. Those are characteristics of extraordinary leaders, too.
 When you go into your typical workplace, and it doesn’t seem to matter which type, there are some challenges you have in nonprofit workplaces that you might not have in others. What is missing in the workplace when it comes to leadership? What are some of the things that are missing? How is that impacting the effectiveness of both nonprofit and profit-making entities?
 Rocio: The most important thing that is missing is our humanity, the fact that we are not seeing each other as human beings, that we are more concerned about the work, that we are not thinking about our impact. We work in silos, and we work not just in a silo, but we think that our work only impacts us. In reality, our work impacts everybody in the organization.
 When I start thinking from a place of how this impacts the other individual- Let’s take the engineering world. Engineers, I have the extraordinary ability to be able to make them dance. Presidents of associations don’t even know what happened the moment they walk in a room. Why are they connected? Why are they dancing? Why are they engaged? Allow me to share.
 It’s that humanity, connecting from the heart, connecting with individuals, and also understanding their world. What’s going on in their world? We talk about how sometimes we hoard information. In that hoarding of information, we are withholding from our project and everybody. How we do anything is how we do everything. Everything we do has an impact on what we do and how we show up in the world. Emotions.
 When we talk about passive-aggressive, we know that 66% of individuals don’t like their jobs. People have been chasing money. They went into careers because they thought they were going to make money, not because that’s what they felt made them happy. I chased money. I know what that looks like. I know what that feels like. That’s a lonely world. I have also come in from a place of I wanted to inspire. The more I drifted away from that, the more miserable I was. The more I walked into it, I was happier. How can this be? Do I get paid for this? I love that fact. That’s where the happiness comes from.
 When we know that 28% of individuals are passive-aggressive, what does that look like? What are the implications? When we talk about an apple spoiling the bunch, that will happen. When we know that more than 89% of individuals who volunteer, and this is what’s missing. We are not doing something that is outside of ourselves, contributing to others. When we know that that happens as a leader, I can support my people more. There are so many things. Those are the most important things.
 One other thing I feel is important is emotions in the workplace. They are real. They will make or break your business, whether we understand them or not. People are running around passive-aggressive. I have spoken inside of businesses and spoken with CEOs of companies, and in between. The thing that I see the most common is our feelings that are getting impacted. Anger, resentment, rage, shame. We don’t feel good enough. We don’t feel worthy enough to be where we’re at. Wherever we may be, those emotions have an impact. If we are running around withholding in our world, it won’t work.
 Hugh: There are a lot of stuff packed into this narrative you just gave us. You are expanding on something you said early on. How you had influence on others. Leaders are influencers. You mentioned that early and whizzed by a strong sound bite about how we do anything is how we do everything. That is so true. You worked that through your narrative. A lot of good stuff.
 There is a lot of resonance in what we teach. Some of the key points of resonance is we teach that leadership is founded in relationship. You’re talking about the aspects of that. Communication is likewise. We call this passive-aggressive triangling. People are taking an odd position in a triangle against another person. You have this power position of a triangle. What is lacking is relationship. You pull those people together and expose that toxic passive-aggressive stuff. There is no way to deal with it without pulling a triangle together and exposing it to light. Fungus dies in the light. We just got to get it out. There are those unhealthy systems.
 Russell, she is giving us a lot. We have time for a couple more questions. A whole lot of content packed into this. I bet Russell has another great question up his sleeve.
 Russell: One of the things that we haven’t covered yet is Rocio does work with a nonprofit called GlobalMinded. That is all about diversity and inclusion. We are almost due for a panel on that. I have read studies. I know that the Denver Foundation did a lot of work just a few years ago to help cultivate diversity and inclusion in nonprofits. How important is that to leadership? What does that look like from your perspective?
 Rocio: It’s so important from a leadership perspective. Diversity and diversity of thought. Two important things. It’s so important to include individuals. I have walked into rooms where people have had this problem for a very long time. For instance, I came in to deliver a presentation. It was a team of basketball youth. They couldn’t get through. Some were doubting themselves. They didn’t know what was happening. Because of my experiences in the world, I was able to walk in there. They have been working on this for nine months. I was able to walk in there and in 15 minutes help them shift. In 15 minutes, they were in tears because they were so excited. They were excited about new possibilities and opportunities. In 20 minutes, some people turned around and said, “We are going to church tomorrow just because of what we have seen.”
 To be able to take other individuals’ experiences, when we invite those experiences to the table, regardless of the fact- I love background. I’d love to hire somebody from prison. I’d love to hire somebody who has had these life experiences because they know certain things that we’re missing. I’d love to see- I heard that. I heard a lady who was hiring a number of individuals who were from prison. Why? She sat down and asked them, when she got past the idea this person was from prison, “Let’s talk about marketing. How did you market?” “I never did.” “How did you sell drugs or do whatever?” This person started saying, “I studied my market. I did this and that.” When you can start taking those gifts, to me they are gifts, from every person, and encourage them. I work on a global scale.
 One of the most fascinating things and saddening things is so many people sit around a table and confess to me, “You know what, Rocio? I just don’t say anything because I don’t feel my voice counts there. I don’t feel I have anything to say.” Wow, there is so much for you to say and contribute. I want to hear you. I want to hear your voice. In some cases, people show up and say, “I don’t know if I should ask for this, or maybe I sound too arrogant for wanting this.” Arrogant? We should all have what we want out of life. A leader should help individuals tap into what’s possible, not where this person wants to go. If we see there is much greater potential, take them to that potential.
 That’s been the reason why the people I have worked with have had so much success. I have taken cohorts of people who have had 100% graduation from our programs. 100%. Unheard of. How did that happen? That happened because I saw their potential, and I led them to their potential. You don’t want to scare people. You don’t want to get them into freak-out zone. You want to get them into possibility and building those blocks overnight. I hope that answered your question.
 Russell: Part of our methodology as we go in and do live events, we bring people in, we put low-tech tools into their hands. Give them markers and sticky pads, things to write on, because one of the things that happens in a group dynamic is you get certain people who take over. The extroverts take over. Your people are your best assets. You’re leaving brain power on the table when you have two or three voices out of a group of 20 who are dominating the discussion. It’s leveraging that with people being your most important asset and taking time to develop them, give them ways to develop. That is something a lot of nonprofits don’t do. They don’t feel like they have the resources.
 You hit on a point earlier when you talked about taking time to sit and talk with people. That costs you nothing but a few minutes. You have some coffee and get to know people. That’s a powerful thing: to get that buy-in and make sure every voice at the table is heard. Bring in new ideas. The idea of being teachable, being flexible, and there are so many things.
 Today’s workplace, we have people from 18-80 everywhere. It’s a different type of future that we’re looking at as far as the work force goes and the way people approach things. How do we prepare for a workplace of the future from the perspective of being a leader so we can grow and develop them?
 Rocio: I love the question. I love the question. As a matter of fact, I presented on the national level about this specifically. In preparation for the future of the gig economy, which we’re in, and looking at how we transform the world, for me, is to really encourage that connection individual to individual. Encourage individual stories. Encourage the authenticity and vulnerability. Understand the distinctions between being vulnerable and feeling vulnerable. Understand those distinctions. Being vulnerable is I get to share myself with you, what’s important to me, what’s near and dear to my heart versus feeling vulnerable, which is feeling attacked by someone. That throws me into survival mode. Encourage people to connect with each other.
 Truly listen. I heard you talking about listening to individuals. That is so important. Find a way. Learn about listening. What we have been doing, and I can almost guarantee you that there are very few people in the world like you guys who actually hear what people are saying. That is what makes extraordinary leaders. We are looking at 2-3% of people in the world who are extraordinary leaders. They have the ability to be able to listen because we feed back into that individual not only what they heard, also what’s possible and that world of possibility.
 You’re looking at many other themes of encouraging self-leadership. I am not here to do it for you. Even when I work with clients, I am not here to give them the magic solution. I am here to help them rediscover what’s already in them. I am not here to teach them anything. That is fascinating from what other individuals are doing. It’s perfect. It works out for them and their client. For us, what makes it sustainable is clients work with us for one year. That’s the max. That’s it. I have shared every tool and resource and helped you reflect through a process. Reflecting helps people. Figure out how to best coach each individual. Understanding their personalities. Those are the key things that are important for me.
 Hugh: Awesome. When you are talking about listening, when I teach leadership, I come from the perspective of a musical conductor. Listening is essential for us. It’s not a fine-tuned skill for most leaders I meet. Listening happens with your ears and your eyes. There are subtle things people communicate in various ways. There are lots of ways we communicate when we never say a word. There is the listening that makes us aware of what’s going on around us. This has been good stuff packed into a short interview.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 Rocio, as you are wrapping up this great stuff, what is a thought or challenge you’d like to leave with us, especially the people working in the hardest place in the world, which is the clergy or nonprofit leaders, working in this space with volunteers? What would you like to leave them with today?
 Rocio: Lead them with your vision. Get to know yourself. I will repeat that one. Get to know yourself; that way, you can get to know others. Through that, lead them with your vision. Authentically connect. Get to know their vision and how your visions connect together. Being very intentional about what you’re doing. Invest in yourself. Invest in your mind. Invest in your people. Your people are your greatest assets. I love the fact that you get to help individuals from all over the world. You gentlemen help so many people through this. One of the most impactful things I have heard is my impact is your impact. When we can see that in another, when we can help them achieve that goal we are working on together, we know our impact is even greater. We did an assessment earlier this year. Just to know I by myself in a company with others, I could go so far, yet to go even further, to make that global impact, has to take a lot of individuals who are committed and who can see that vision. Because of that, we were able to reach 1.5 million in months. That would have taken years to achieve. Yet that achievement was it was because it was all of us.
 I make the invitation for those who want to come and join and connect with us. We have unstoppables. Www.SevenStepsToUnstoppableBook.com. We have a free webinar for individuals. You can come on board and send me a quick email. Whoever signs up and purchases the book through that can get a free one-hour webinar and go through that process. When you get more knowledge and get more understanding, you shift into wisdom. That is important. We can talk about this like you gentlemen do so beautifully. It comes from the heart. It’s there for you. It becomes a part of who you are. Leadership is who I am.
 Russell: Rocio, thank you so much for sharing your time with us and connecting with our audience. Thank you, folks who are watching and listening for all that you do to make the world a better place.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:03:05 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/78383596-b329-11eb-9f0f-4b2c81c0b4ff/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Nonprofit Leadership</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Rocio Perez is an executive leader with more than 20 years of experience providing relevant insight to leaders around the world. She has delivered hundreds of inspiring and life-changing leadership trainings, keynotes and presentations to people around the world. Rocío helps leaders gain confidence, presence and step into their personal power, pave their own way, discover and eliminate their blind spots, spark self-awareness and maximize their overall impact.
 More…
  
 Read the Interview Hugh Ballou:  Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Russell, our guest today is somebody that you connected us with. How are you doing today, Russ?
 Russell Dennis: I’m fine. It’s beautiful out here in Denver, Colorado, where my guest is. She is just a remarkable woman who is a master around leadership. She has a very interesting journey that everybody should know about. Her book really describes her in general. She has a book called Unstoppable. That describes Rocio Perez, who will tell us about who she is. Welcome. It’s always good to see ya.
 Rocio: Russell, always a wonderful pleasure. Hugh, thank you for the invitation to be on your show today. I’m very excited. I’ll tell you a little bit about who I am, and then we’ll go back to what made me who I am. I am an international leadership expert and have worked with individuals all the way from Denver to Singapore and Korea. I love helping people create an extraordinary vision in their life. I love helping them get unstuck. All of us get stuck in one way or another in our careers. My goal is always to allow people to see how amazing they are so that they can have an extraordinary life. That has been one of the most exciting things I have done.
 I have been working with people since I was 17 years old. It’s been a long time. It’s been an extraordinary journey over 24 years watching people. By 19, I was guiding 160-200 people at a time and taking them from where they were at in their goals and their dreams to be educated in their careers to where they’re at today. I have seen remarkable things all over the world. That’s been very thrilling to watch people open up their businesses, thriving businesses, and lead their team members into extraordinary amounts of success. Yet it did not start there. That’s where my journey to Unstoppable comes through.
 I started off growing up in extreme circumstances as a child. By the time I was 12, given those circumstances, I looked at different things in life. I left home. I ran away from home at the age of 12. I’m sure there are a lot of people who wonder. I hear all the time, “How did you do that?” I had a vision. I had a dream. Ever since I was a little girl, I wanted to inspire people. I would run around with my uncle Sergio and say, “Some day, I’m going to grow up and become a teacher so I can inspire people.” Whether I was born with that or I picked it up somewhere, I don’t know. What I do know is that drew me closer and closer to him.
 By the time I was 14, I ran away. I was pregnant at 14 and a mom by 15. And at that age, I was also knocking on the university doors to let me in so I could fulfill that dream. With my 6th grade education, showing up there, they’re like, “Who are you? What are you doing here?” One of the things I can tell you is I was relentless at knowing I wanted to go to school. The only answer I could hear, I could accept was, “Yes, this is when you start.”
 That led me on an extraordinary journey at the age of 17 starting college. The track was difficult, guys. It was very difficult. It was an eight-hour track on a daily basis. Getting up at three o’clock in the morning so I could start my trek at four am to be at class by eight am was definitely something that unstoppable leaders are made of. I look back at that part of my life and think how amazing was that. I didn’t think about that. This is what needs to be done. That’s it.
 I’m happy to say that along the way from the age of 19 forward, I have led thousands and thousands of people. I became a serial entrepreneur. I did what seems to be impossible in the eyes of many individuals who were saying, “That’s not possible. How can a person with your background make it?” I have been in homes of very important global leaders, in front of ambassadors of countries, presented to members of Parliament. I have done extraordinary things. It was all based on the belief of what made me unstoppable and what made the people I have guided throughout the years unstoppable today. My son is 28 years old, which sometimes I can’t even believe. I have a four-year-old grandson named Emilio who continues to inspire me and helps me move forward as I continue to build businesses and help them get unstuck in greater levels of success and help them move forward in everything they’re doing, making an impact on this world.
 Hugh: What a story. What a story. Show us that book again. You just happen to have it handy.
 Rocio: I do. This book is all over the world. It made international bestseller in less than 12 hours from the moment that the book was launched. One of the things I can tell you, Hugh, is it’s been an answer to what a lot of people were asking: “Rocio, what can I do to help myself?” As I was getting off stages, whether it was Ph. Ds or MDs or 123s or ABCs, whatever it was. Whoever was getting off the stage wanted to get an answer. Besides coaching one on one or group coaching, here is another opportunity. This book has brought a lot of hope, a lot of transformation to people. It’s been exciting to hear people who have had up to 33 businesses saying, “Because of this book and what I got out of it, I am doing business differently moving forward.” That has been touching, humbling, inspirational.
 Hugh: Tell us how you came up with that title, Unstoppable.
 Rocio: It’s what I’ve always done. That’s my domain. I am unstoppable by nature, unstoppable by desire, unstoppable. I was sitting here as I was writing a memoir. The next version of my memoir, which will be released next year. What can I do? Besides answering the call. What is that message that we all have inside of all of us? In my experience, it was the fact that working with so many people all over the world, the one thing they sometimes couldn’t see, because I have been there and done that, I know what it’s like not to see my own greatness in front of others. Sometimes they couldn’t see it. They couldn’t see their unstoppable nature. They couldn’t see all of the amazing things they have done, how they have borrowed from the past. We were all meant to be unstoppable. Nine out of ten people are unstoppable and don’t know it. For me, it’s just to turn back that mirror and say, “Have you seen yourself?” The moment they see themselves, we go through a subtle process. When they see themselves fully, they become unstoppable. They own their unstoppable nature.
 Hugh: That is a compelling title. The rest of the title, and I found that on Facebook. What is the rest of the title?
 Rocio: Seven Steps to Becoming a More Intentional Leader.
 Hugh: I found it on Amazon, I meant. A more intentional leader. Do you want to highlight those seven steps?
 Rocio: Most definitely. I’ll talk about the first three steps that are really important. Let’s understand ourselves. Let’s understand how our mind works. That is the first and most important thing. Knowing that our subconscious mind is there to preserve and protect our life. I don’t have to speak about how many times our heart is going to beat. There is an intelligence inside all of us. When we understand that, and we understand that we are all meant for greatness, we are all destined for greatness, we can go ahead and hijack our own success, even in those moments we don’t think we’re unstoppable.
 The steps that are very important after knowing that is what is it that I must be aware of? Fostering that awareness and that capacity to change that we all have. We can all transform no matter where we start from. Knowing if this little girl who would run around barefoot thinking of only a dream would be possible, then it’s possible for all of us. It’s possible for one; it’s possible for all. I have proved it thousands and thousands of times over and over again.
 Having that incisive discovery and accelerating my insight. How do I work with the people who already know that I can continue to learn? Who I am today is not who I must be in order for me to have what I want to have or be where I want to be.
 The next step, which is the third step, is I must know where I am going. Just like I knew where I was going. I wanted to become that teacher. I held that road map. No matter who came along, whether Ann or Billy or Dave or whomever was there, I held my own map and said, “This is where I’m going.” Whoever didn’t pay attention, it didn’t matter. I just moved on to the next person and said, “This is where I’m going.” Sounds like you have a question right there, Hugh.
 Hugh: No, I’m just resonating- I was practicing my R. I’m Southern. This is fascinating. Go ahead. I am going to have Russell jump in on the next question. These are really important steps. What I was also thinking, there is a lot of resonance with what we teach at SynerVision.
 Rocio: Beautiful. In that, too, is speeding up my personal evolution. They all go hand in hand. How do I accelerate? How do I become more aware of what’s going on? Today, more than any other time in history, three things to me are super important.
 One is my auto leadership. How am I going to be leading myself? I hold the map. I take it wherever I go. Who is the most important person in our lives? We are. We know where we’re going. We are the ones who are going to make that commitment and move forward.
 Two is being that intentional leader. How do I get there? It’s about going through it over and over again, necessarily that I have to be intentional about everything I do. I have a level 10 goal. I can’t give it 9.99 because that doesn’t get me through the finish line. What is going to bring me to the finish line? Understanding sometimes that intention is being in positive places.
 Let me leave you with a picture here that was painted very vividly in my mind. You can get through the finish line of a marathon running with 100 people than with three people on your back. When you think about that intentionality, am I in a place that supported me? If I’m not, how do I create that for myself? Nothing happens to us; it only happens through us. Where do I go? How do I do this? How did that happen for me?
 The third step is being that aware leader. What am I aware of? What is happening in my life? How am I creating my reality? What is it I have created over and over again? We can think about a thought. The only thing that distinguishes us from a horse or a puppy or whatever that may be is the fact that we have the ability to be able to think and think very vividly and create that. Whatever it is we can think about, we can think and bring it to fruition. That is important to know because if our thoughts are positive, fantastic. High five. If our thoughts are negative, what is the impact of those negative thoughts on what will happen in our lives? We are thinking negative. We don’t know about negative. We are wondering why we are getting negative results. It’s about thinking about hey, we have anywhere from 55,000-75,000 thoughts a day. Whether those thoughts are negative or positive depends on what we are into that moment, that day.
 That very next step for me is creating that road map. I know where I’m going. Those three things are important. Now I know where I’m going. I can get there because I can look at that map and know what does it look like every step of the way, and being comfortable with adjusting that. Sometimes we get caught up in it has to be this way, yet it may not. Maybe somebody comes in and short-tracks your entire learning right there. It takes you from Point A to Point Z immediately. Yet if we were to be married to the way things are supposed to be, it’s not going to happen. It may be a long journey, or it may not even happen. If it does, you may not be happy with the process because we put so much effort into it.
 It’s fascinating to see that. I have seen it over and over again. For instance, when I work with clients, individuals come to me and say, “I want to make more money.” Before they came to me, they had already jumped out of their business, or they took a leap of faith and didn’t have a parachute. That is destructive to see. You must have something that you know whether you’re very centered or grounded. Whether it’s the finances that support you through the process, or it’s just the belief and the action that will take you to your success.
 The next one is taking that massive action. I have been relentless in taking action my entire life. Getting on a bus, waking up at three o’clock in the morning after I went to sleep at midnight, it’s not something that normal people do. As I hear it from my friends, I like to say that I’m fab-normal because I’m willing to do whatever it takes. That relentlessness and resourcefulness.
 Something came up right here. Even the word “resentful.” To understand the impact of the words in our world. When a person holds onto feelings, those feelings actually have an impact in our world. What does that impact in our world? That can be detrimental. If I’m holding onto resentment, it’s like drinking poison and expecting somebody else to get hurt in the process, which is one of the worst things that anybody could ever do. To me, it’s blessing that person. I hope that person has an extraordinary time. Yes, it may have cost me time, energy, resources, whatever it may be. I just bless that person and hope that person is in a better place. I truly do. I can move forward.
 The very last part of it is understanding I must come back and evaluate my process. What does that look like? Does it look like I am tweaking it? Am I testing, tracking what my progress is along the way and making adjustments? I have been caught up in certain parts of my life. Things are going rough, and things happen. We have a setback. What does that look like to be aware that that also has an impact in the way we are thinking and living life?
 Russell: All critical stuff for any leader who wants to move forward. These are a lot of things we discuss with people at SynerVision in moving forward. We all have challenges. There are a lot of challenges. You have overcome some great ones. Most people I talk to have overcome some great challenges and don’t always recognize the magnitude of what they have come through. That’s important.
 Nonprofit leaders are people with a big vision. They want to change the world. Some of them have a lot of these attributes, and the mindset is critical, as you have talked about. What are some of the ways that you have seen leaders you have worked with- If there were what you call three greatest hits for the ways that leaders get in their own way, what would those be?
 Rocio: I would say the mindset is probably one of the biggest things in that. That is one of the biggest things that inspired me about our previous conversations and this one as well is looking at how am I getting in the way? Sometimes we hear things we intake from other people. That’s why I shared earlier that we must be intentional about who we’re around. If people are not supporting my vision, then I must look for a group that supports my vision. No matter the way we think about it, we start intaking it. It’s like somebody coming in and throwing garbage on our bed. Would we like that? They throw it little by little by little. Sure enough in time, that bed will be filthy. We are not going to know where to start. Number one is to find a place that supports you in your vision.
 The other thing is to believe in the fact that there are good people in this world who are willing to help. Here you are, Russell and Hugh. The fact that you’re here to guide individuals, you know the way, you can lead the way, and short-track people’s success. You can go even faster. You can go the fast track or the slow track. What do you want? That’s what I ask my clients, too. What would you like to do? I can take you on any journey. What journey do you want to be on? Do you want to be on the jet that will give you immediate success, or do you want to be on the horse? That’s up to you. I will take you whatever way. I am here to be of service.
 Know to stay focused on the vision. What is the vision? The vision you came into this nonprofit organization with, the reason why you set it up, who you are going to help will help you to continue to get up every morning and to know that’s what you’re moving toward. Focus on the feeling of what it is you are looking to accomplish, whether that is an individual, a city, a country, the world, whatever it is that is important to you. Focus on the feeling of what it would be like. That is one of the things we don’t focus on enough. We are focused on things are going haywire as opposed to that will feel amazing, that will get me up every single morning. There are mornings I get up, “I am here to serve. I am here to serve the people who are ready to be served.” In that, that inspires me to get up, to get on the stage, to show up every single time whether there is one person in that audience who hears that message, or 100 people who hear it. It’s about showing up and having that belief that gives us the confidence that the more we do it, the easier it becomes.
 Russell: That’s what possibility engineering is about. That’s why I am one. There is always a way around something. We can find it with the right support. Becoming what Hugh calls a transformational leader is intentional. It’s deliberate. It’s no accident. Do all people have a capacity to be good leaders? Or is it something you have to be born with?
 Rocio: For me, we are all leaders. We are all meant to be leaders. We are leaders of our own life. Let’s be honest. The morning we wake up, we are the CEO of our own company, the financial officer. We are leading ourselves. All of a sudden, somebody put this title up here when in reality it’s there for all of us. We are all leaders in our own way in our own lives.
 Stepping into leadership to lead others is also when we take some of those fundamentals into life, let’s say that for leadership, I am a mom. Which I am. Looking at that, how do I guide a team? How would I guide them? Do I treat them with empathy and compassion? Do I listen and ask, “Hey Russell, is everything okay? I see the project is not completed on time. Is everything okay? Anything going on with you?” Whether I can help you fix that problem, it also gives you an opportunity to say, I don’t need to hide, because we hide. Whether we realize it or not, because we have been taught not to bring our home selves into work, which also has a huge impact. We can have many conversations. That piece alone, when we are siloing ourselves, here is who I am at work, here is who I am in real life. No, here is who I am as a complete and whole being. Yes, we are all capable of being those extraordinary leaders. Let’s bring some fundamentals. How would we treat our children? Do we want to treat them with empathy and compassion, love, connection? Are there any throwaway people? Not really. Are there any throwaway kids? No, no. In reality, have I found something that connects and inspires them to continue to move forward in the direction of their dreams and their vision?
 Russell: That sounds like some of the ways a nonprofit leader can lead with a vision. What are the three most important things that a leader can do, especially in the nonprofit sphere, to help make his/her team unstoppable?
 Rocio: Encourage self-care. Mindfulness is so important. All of the years I have been around nonprofits simultaneously in 24 years, I have seen the impact of an individual, the burnout. Their heart is in the right place. They want to make an impact on the world. Sometimes, as leaders, we are not consciously aware that they’re running themselves ragged. That is because we have already run ourselves ragged that we are not connected to that. We are numb to the fact they are doing that. Encouraging self-care is important.
 Check in with people. Connect with them. Get to know them. Ask them questions about their lives. Really get to know them. That is big in my world is to get to know people. Sit down for coffee. Get to know what their vision is. One thing is to know them. How am I going to get to where I want to be? More than a decade ago, I read a book about leadership, and I always thought how I would be the day I became a leader in my organization. What would that look like? I would listen to people. Get to know who you are. This is for me now. I want to get to know who you are. What’s important to you? What would success look like? What do you not have right now that you would have that would light your world up, make it worthwhile? When I know that, I can help that person, as they are helping me to get to my vision, get to their vision.
 This is not a one-way street. Just because somebody is getting paid does that mean they are disregarded. The fact is they are giving you the most precious thing they have, which is time. You can get anything from anyone. That time that person is giving you cannot be replaced by anybody. We have a certain bucket of hours. We don’t know when our time is called. That is why it makes it so special. Get to know people. Form those relationships. Take time to form those relationships, not just inside your organization, but outside your organization. A lot of people walk around and say, “Marketing is only one person’s responsibility,” when marketing is a way of communication for all of us.
 Hugh: Russell, we got to the halfway point here. We titled our interview “The Five Top Secrets of Unstoppable Leaders.” You shared your seven steps to becoming an intentional leader. I am curious. Are you curious? Let’s see what those five top secrets are.
 Rocio: Number one is getting to know myself. Every intentional leader gets to know who they are. They get to know what limits them, what drives them, what excites them, what blocks them. That is so important. First and foremost, get to know yourself. As you get to know yourself, you can get to know others and come from a place of empathy and compassion, and in some cases, ruthless compassion. Get to know yourself. That way, you can get to know others.
 Hijack your mind. If you can hijack your mind, intentional leaders hijack their mind. They take their learning into their own hands. They are constantly learning from people.
 Hugh: That’s #2?
 Rocio: #2. Continuous learning. Hijacking your mind, and learning from anybody you can learn. There is not just one way of doing things. That is learning more about you. How does that work for you?
 The next step is showing up from intention with everything that I do. If you look at those three things of leadership that are close to me, the intentionality. If I know I am working with Russell, and I know Russell wants to send his kids to college, Princeton and Yale specifically, how can I help him every day to show up with intention in everything that I do for him? It’s not just me; it’s him.
 Show up from a place of authenticity, with those values that are so important, connection, vulnerability. What a concept. When people know me as an individual- Let me share one thing on that. I used to speak from a stage. You can give me any topic I’m familiar with, and I did an extraordinary job. When I tell you, when I started to share about me and my journey and where I had been, people would follow me. That was so different because it took something from me to be so vulnerable. I thought that that vulnerability was something that wasn’t supposed to be shown. The moment you show up from a place of authenticity, vulnerability, connection, story, there is a relatedness within others that you can connect with.
 Showing up with energy, extraordinary energy. Nobody talks about energy. We see leaders from the stage talking and expressing, yet their expressions don’t match what they want us to see from the audience. That is key. It’s very different. I can come in and tell my son, “Son, I really love you,” or I can lean in, “Son, I really love you.” Same intonation. My body speaks louder than words. When we can show up from that place, “It is fantastic to get to know you. It is fantastic to get to be here with you,” that is a different story. When we can look somebody in the eye and ground that person because they have lived whatever is going on in that day, that is what leaders really do. They focus on that individual and pay attention to what that person is going through because they are the most important person in front of them in that moment, just like you are, and each person that I stood in front of before is the most important person in the moment because we all are.
 Russell: That’s critical. Those are great attributes for people to have to become unstoppable. I had thought of an acronym for hijack. I remember writing a piece quite some time ago. I have to gout and find that. Those are characteristics of extraordinary leaders, too.
 When you go into your typical workplace, and it doesn’t seem to matter which type, there are some challenges you have in nonprofit workplaces that you might not have in others. What is missing in the workplace when it comes to leadership? What are some of the things that are missing? How is that impacting the effectiveness of both nonprofit and profit-making entities?
 Rocio: The most important thing that is missing is our humanity, the fact that we are not seeing each other as human beings, that we are more concerned about the work, that we are not thinking about our impact. We work in silos, and we work not just in a silo, but we think that our work only impacts us. In reality, our work impacts everybody in the organization.
 When I start thinking from a place of how this impacts the other individual- Let’s take the engineering world. Engineers, I have the extraordinary ability to be able to make them dance. Presidents of associations don’t even know what happened the moment they walk in a room. Why are they connected? Why are they dancing? Why are they engaged? Allow me to share.
 It’s that humanity, connecting from the heart, connecting with individuals, and also understanding their world. What’s going on in their world? We talk about how sometimes we hoard information. In that hoarding of information, we are withholding from our project and everybody. How we do anything is how we do everything. Everything we do has an impact on what we do and how we show up in the world. Emotions.
 When we talk about passive-aggressive, we know that 66% of individuals don’t like their jobs. People have been chasing money. They went into careers because they thought they were going to make money, not because that’s what they felt made them happy. I chased money. I know what that looks like. I know what that feels like. That’s a lonely world. I have also come in from a place of I wanted to inspire. The more I drifted away from that, the more miserable I was. The more I walked into it, I was happier. How can this be? Do I get paid for this? I love that fact. That’s where the happiness comes from.
 When we know that 28% of individuals are passive-aggressive, what does that look like? What are the implications? When we talk about an apple spoiling the bunch, that will happen. When we know that more than 89% of individuals who volunteer, and this is what’s missing. We are not doing something that is outside of ourselves, contributing to others. When we know that that happens as a leader, I can support my people more. There are so many things. Those are the most important things.
 One other thing I feel is important is emotions in the workplace. They are real. They will make or break your business, whether we understand them or not. People are running around passive-aggressive. I have spoken inside of businesses and spoken with CEOs of companies, and in between. The thing that I see the most common is our feelings that are getting impacted. Anger, resentment, rage, shame. We don’t feel good enough. We don’t feel worthy enough to be where we’re at. Wherever we may be, those emotions have an impact. If we are running around withholding in our world, it won’t work.
 Hugh: There are a lot of stuff packed into this narrative you just gave us. You are expanding on something you said early on. How you had influence on others. Leaders are influencers. You mentioned that early and whizzed by a strong sound bite about how we do anything is how we do everything. That is so true. You worked that through your narrative. A lot of good stuff.
 There is a lot of resonance in what we teach. Some of the key points of resonance is we teach that leadership is founded in relationship. You’re talking about the aspects of that. Communication is likewise. We call this passive-aggressive triangling. People are taking an odd position in a triangle against another person. You have this power position of a triangle. What is lacking is relationship. You pull those people together and expose that toxic passive-aggressive stuff. There is no way to deal with it without pulling a triangle together and exposing it to light. Fungus dies in the light. We just got to get it out. There are those unhealthy systems.
 Russell, she is giving us a lot. We have time for a couple more questions. A whole lot of content packed into this. I bet Russell has another great question up his sleeve.
 Russell: One of the things that we haven’t covered yet is Rocio does work with a nonprofit called GlobalMinded. That is all about diversity and inclusion. We are almost due for a panel on that. I have read studies. I know that the Denver Foundation did a lot of work just a few years ago to help cultivate diversity and inclusion in nonprofits. How important is that to leadership? What does that look like from your perspective?
 Rocio: It’s so important from a leadership perspective. Diversity and diversity of thought. Two important things. It’s so important to include individuals. I have walked into rooms where people have had this problem for a very long time. For instance, I came in to deliver a presentation. It was a team of basketball youth. They couldn’t get through. Some were doubting themselves. They didn’t know what was happening. Because of my experiences in the world, I was able to walk in there. They have been working on this for nine months. I was able to walk in there and in 15 minutes help them shift. In 15 minutes, they were in tears because they were so excited. They were excited about new possibilities and opportunities. In 20 minutes, some people turned around and said, “We are going to church tomorrow just because of what we have seen.”
 To be able to take other individuals’ experiences, when we invite those experiences to the table, regardless of the fact- I love background. I’d love to hire somebody from prison. I’d love to hire somebody who has had these life experiences because they know certain things that we’re missing. I’d love to see- I heard that. I heard a lady who was hiring a number of individuals who were from prison. Why? She sat down and asked them, when she got past the idea this person was from prison, “Let’s talk about marketing. How did you market?” “I never did.” “How did you sell drugs or do whatever?” This person started saying, “I studied my market. I did this and that.” When you can start taking those gifts, to me they are gifts, from every person, and encourage them. I work on a global scale.
 One of the most fascinating things and saddening things is so many people sit around a table and confess to me, “You know what, Rocio? I just don’t say anything because I don’t feel my voice counts there. I don’t feel I have anything to say.” Wow, there is so much for you to say and contribute. I want to hear you. I want to hear your voice. In some cases, people show up and say, “I don’t know if I should ask for this, or maybe I sound too arrogant for wanting this.” Arrogant? We should all have what we want out of life. A leader should help individuals tap into what’s possible, not where this person wants to go. If we see there is much greater potential, take them to that potential.
 That’s been the reason why the people I have worked with have had so much success. I have taken cohorts of people who have had 100% graduation from our programs. 100%. Unheard of. How did that happen? That happened because I saw their potential, and I led them to their potential. You don’t want to scare people. You don’t want to get them into freak-out zone. You want to get them into possibility and building those blocks overnight. I hope that answered your question.
 Russell: Part of our methodology as we go in and do live events, we bring people in, we put low-tech tools into their hands. Give them markers and sticky pads, things to write on, because one of the things that happens in a group dynamic is you get certain people who take over. The extroverts take over. Your people are your best assets. You’re leaving brain power on the table when you have two or three voices out of a group of 20 who are dominating the discussion. It’s leveraging that with people being your most important asset and taking time to develop them, give them ways to develop. That is something a lot of nonprofits don’t do. They don’t feel like they have the resources.
 You hit on a point earlier when you talked about taking time to sit and talk with people. That costs you nothing but a few minutes. You have some coffee and get to know people. That’s a powerful thing: to get that buy-in and make sure every voice at the table is heard. Bring in new ideas. The idea of being teachable, being flexible, and there are so many things.
 Today’s workplace, we have people from 18-80 everywhere. It’s a different type of future that we’re looking at as far as the work force goes and the way people approach things. How do we prepare for a workplace of the future from the perspective of being a leader so we can grow and develop them?
 Rocio: I love the question. I love the question. As a matter of fact, I presented on the national level about this specifically. In preparation for the future of the gig economy, which we’re in, and looking at how we transform the world, for me, is to really encourage that connection individual to individual. Encourage individual stories. Encourage the authenticity and vulnerability. Understand the distinctions between being vulnerable and feeling vulnerable. Understand those distinctions. Being vulnerable is I get to share myself with you, what’s important to me, what’s near and dear to my heart versus feeling vulnerable, which is feeling attacked by someone. That throws me into survival mode. Encourage people to connect with each other.
 Truly listen. I heard you talking about listening to individuals. That is so important. Find a way. Learn about listening. What we have been doing, and I can almost guarantee you that there are very few people in the world like you guys who actually hear what people are saying. That is what makes extraordinary leaders. We are looking at 2-3% of people in the world who are extraordinary leaders. They have the ability to be able to listen because we feed back into that individual not only what they heard, also what’s possible and that world of possibility.
 You’re looking at many other themes of encouraging self-leadership. I am not here to do it for you. Even when I work with clients, I am not here to give them the magic solution. I am here to help them rediscover what’s already in them. I am not here to teach them anything. That is fascinating from what other individuals are doing. It’s perfect. It works out for them and their client. For us, what makes it sustainable is clients work with us for one year. That’s the max. That’s it. I have shared every tool and resource and helped you reflect through a process. Reflecting helps people. Figure out how to best coach each individual. Understanding their personalities. Those are the key things that are important for me.
 Hugh: Awesome. When you are talking about listening, when I teach leadership, I come from the perspective of a musical conductor. Listening is essential for us. It’s not a fine-tuned skill for most leaders I meet. Listening happens with your ears and your eyes. There are subtle things people communicate in various ways. There are lots of ways we communicate when we never say a word. There is the listening that makes us aware of what’s going on around us. This has been good stuff packed into a short interview.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 Rocio, as you are wrapping up this great stuff, what is a thought or challenge you’d like to leave with us, especially the people working in the hardest place in the world, which is the clergy or nonprofit leaders, working in this space with volunteers? What would you like to leave them with today?
 Rocio: Lead them with your vision. Get to know yourself. I will repeat that one. Get to know yourself; that way, you can get to know others. Through that, lead them with your vision. Authentically connect. Get to know their vision and how your visions connect together. Being very intentional about what you’re doing. Invest in yourself. Invest in your mind. Invest in your people. Your people are your greatest assets. I love the fact that you get to help individuals from all over the world. You gentlemen help so many people through this. One of the most impactful things I have heard is my impact is your impact. When we can see that in another, when we can help them achieve that goal we are working on together, we know our impact is even greater. We did an assessment earlier this year. Just to know I by myself in a company with others, I could go so far, yet to go even further, to make that global impact, has to take a lot of individuals who are committed and who can see that vision. Because of that, we were able to reach 1.5 million in months. That would have taken years to achieve. Yet that achievement was it was because it was all of us.
 I make the invitation for those who want to come and join and connect with us. We have unstoppables. Www.SevenStepsToUnstoppableBook.com. We have a free webinar for individuals. You can come on board and send me a quick email. Whoever signs up and purchases the book through that can get a free one-hour webinar and go through that process. When you get more knowledge and get more understanding, you shift into wisdom. That is important. We can talk about this like you gentlemen do so beautifully. It comes from the heart. It’s there for you. It becomes a part of who you are. Leadership is who I am.
 Russell: Rocio, thank you so much for sharing your time with us and connecting with our audience. Thank you, folks who are watching and listening for all that you do to make the world a better place.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Rocio Perez</strong> is an executive leader with more than 20 years of experience providing relevant insight to leaders around the world. She has delivered hundreds of inspiring and life-changing leadership trainings, keynotes and presentations to people around the world. Rocío helps leaders gain confidence, presence and step into their personal power, pave their own way, discover and eliminate their blind spots, spark self-awareness and maximize their overall impact.</p> <p><a href="http://www.inventivaconsulting.com/">More…</a></p> <p> </p> Read the Interview <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:  </strong>Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Russell, our guest today is somebody that you connected us with. How are you doing today, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> I’m fine. It’s beautiful out here in Denver, Colorado, where my guest is. She is just a remarkable woman who is a master around leadership. She has a very interesting journey that everybody should know about. Her book really describes her in general. She has a book called <em>Unstoppable.</em> That describes Rocio Perez, who will tell us about who she is. Welcome. It’s always good to see ya.</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> Russell, always a wonderful pleasure. Hugh, thank you for the invitation to be on your show today. I’m very excited. I’ll tell you a little bit about who I am, and then we’ll go back to what made me who I am. I am an international leadership expert and have worked with individuals all the way from Denver to Singapore and Korea. I love helping people create an extraordinary vision in their life. I love helping them get unstuck. All of us get stuck in one way or another in our careers. My goal is always to allow people to see how amazing they are so that they can have an extraordinary life. That has been one of the most exciting things I have done.</p> <p>I have been working with people since I was 17 years old. It’s been a long time. It’s been an extraordinary journey over 24 years watching people. By 19, I was guiding 160-200 people at a time and taking them from where they were at in their goals and their dreams to be educated in their careers to where they’re at today. I have seen remarkable things all over the world. That’s been very thrilling to watch people open up their businesses, thriving businesses, and lead their team members into extraordinary amounts of success. Yet it did not start there. That’s where my journey to <em>Unstoppable</em> comes through.</p> <p>I started off growing up in extreme circumstances as a child. By the time I was 12, given those circumstances, I looked at different things in life. I left home. I ran away from home at the age of 12. I’m sure there are a lot of people who wonder. I hear all the time, “How did you do that?” I had a vision. I had a dream. Ever since I was a little girl, I wanted to inspire people. I would run around with my uncle Sergio and say, “Some day, I’m going to grow up and become a teacher so I can inspire people.” Whether I was born with that or I picked it up somewhere, I don’t know. What I do know is that drew me closer and closer to him.</p> <p>By the time I was 14, I ran away. I was pregnant at 14 and a mom by 15. And at that age, I was also knocking on the university doors to let me in so I could fulfill that dream. With my 6th grade education, showing up there, they’re like, “Who are you? What are you doing here?” One of the things I can tell you is I was relentless at knowing I wanted to go to school. The only answer I could hear, I could accept was, “Yes, this is when you start.”</p> <p>That led me on an extraordinary journey at the age of 17 starting college. The track was difficult, guys. It was very difficult. It was an eight-hour track on a daily basis. Getting up at three o’clock in the morning so I could start my trek at four am to be at class by eight am was definitely something that unstoppable leaders are made of. I look back at that part of my life and think how amazing was that. I didn’t think about that. This is what needs to be done. That’s it.</p> <p>I’m happy to say that along the way from the age of 19 forward, I have led thousands and thousands of people. I became a serial entrepreneur. I did what seems to be impossible in the eyes of many individuals who were saying, “That’s not possible. How can a person with your background make it?” I have been in homes of very important global leaders, in front of ambassadors of countries, presented to members of Parliament. I have done extraordinary things. It was all based on the belief of what made me unstoppable and what made the people I have guided throughout the years unstoppable today. My son is 28 years old, which sometimes I can’t even believe. I have a four-year-old grandson named Emilio who continues to inspire me and helps me move forward as I continue to build businesses and help them get unstuck in greater levels of success and help them move forward in everything they’re doing, making an impact on this world.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What a story. What a story. Show us that book again. You just happen to have it handy.</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> I do. This book is all over the world. It made international bestseller in less than 12 hours from the moment that the book was launched. One of the things I can tell you, Hugh, is it’s been an answer to what a lot of people were asking: “Rocio, what can I do to help myself?” As I was getting off stages, whether it was Ph. Ds or MDs or 123s or ABCs, whatever it was. Whoever was getting off the stage wanted to get an answer. Besides coaching one on one or group coaching, here is another opportunity. This book has brought a lot of hope, a lot of transformation to people. It’s been exciting to hear people who have had up to 33 businesses saying, “Because of this book and what I got out of it, I am doing business differently moving forward.” That has been touching, humbling, inspirational.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tell us how you came up with that title, <em>Unstoppable.</em></p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> It’s what I’ve always done. That’s my domain. I am unstoppable by nature, unstoppable by desire, unstoppable. I was sitting here as I was writing a memoir. The next version of my memoir, which will be released next year. What can I do? Besides answering the call. What is that message that we all have inside of all of us? In my experience, it was the fact that working with so many people all over the world, the one thing they sometimes couldn’t see, because I have been there and done that, I know what it’s like not to see my own greatness in front of others. Sometimes they couldn’t see it. They couldn’t see their unstoppable nature. They couldn’t see all of the amazing things they have done, how they have borrowed from the past. We were all meant to be unstoppable. Nine out of ten people are unstoppable and don’t know it. For me, it’s just to turn back that mirror and say, “Have you seen yourself?” The moment they see themselves, we go through a subtle process. When they see themselves fully, they become unstoppable. They own their unstoppable nature.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is a compelling title. The rest of the title, and I found that on Facebook. What is the rest of the title?</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> <em>Seven Steps to Becoming a More Intentional Leader.</em></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I found it on Amazon, I meant. A more intentional leader. Do you want to highlight those seven steps?</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> Most definitely. I’ll talk about the first three steps that are really important. Let’s understand ourselves. Let’s understand how our mind works. That is the first and most important thing. Knowing that our subconscious mind is there to preserve and protect our life. I don’t have to speak about how many times our heart is going to beat. There is an intelligence inside all of us. When we understand that, and we understand that we are all meant for greatness, we are all destined for greatness, we can go ahead and hijack our own success, even in those moments we don’t think we’re unstoppable.</p> <p>The steps that are very important after knowing that is what is it that I must be aware of? Fostering that awareness and that capacity to change that we all have. We can all transform no matter where we start from. Knowing if this little girl who would run around barefoot thinking of only a dream would be possible, then it’s possible for all of us. It’s possible for one; it’s possible for all. I have proved it thousands and thousands of times over and over again.</p> <p>Having that incisive discovery and accelerating my insight. How do I work with the people who already know that I can continue to learn? Who I am today is not who I must be in order for me to have what I want to have or be where I want to be.</p> <p>The next step, which is the third step, is I must know where I am going. Just like I knew where I was going. I wanted to become that teacher. I held that road map. No matter who came along, whether Ann or Billy or Dave or whomever was there, I held my own map and said, “This is where I’m going.” Whoever didn’t pay attention, it didn’t matter. I just moved on to the next person and said, “This is where I’m going.” Sounds like you have a question right there, Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> No, I’m just resonating- I was practicing my R. I’m Southern. This is fascinating. Go ahead. I am going to have Russell jump in on the next question. These are really important steps. What I was also thinking, there is a lot of resonance with what we teach at SynerVision.</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> Beautiful. In that, too, is speeding up my personal evolution. They all go hand in hand. How do I accelerate? How do I become more aware of what’s going on? Today, more than any other time in history, three things to me are super important.</p> <p>One is my auto leadership. How am I going to be leading myself? I hold the map. I take it wherever I go. Who is the most important person in our lives? We are. We know where we’re going. We are the ones who are going to make that commitment and move forward.</p> <p>Two is being that intentional leader. How do I get there? It’s about going through it over and over again, necessarily that I have to be intentional about everything I do. I have a level 10 goal. I can’t give it 9.99 because that doesn’t get me through the finish line. What is going to bring me to the finish line? Understanding sometimes that intention is being in positive places.</p> <p>Let me leave you with a picture here that was painted very vividly in my mind. You can get through the finish line of a marathon running with 100 people than with three people on your back. When you think about that intentionality, am I in a place that supported me? If I’m not, how do I create that for myself? Nothing happens to us; it only happens through us. Where do I go? How do I do this? How did that happen for me?</p> <p>The third step is being that aware leader. What am I aware of? What is happening in my life? How am I creating my reality? What is it I have created over and over again? We can think about a thought. The only thing that distinguishes us from a horse or a puppy or whatever that may be is the fact that we have the ability to be able to think and think very vividly and create that. Whatever it is we can think about, we can think and bring it to fruition. That is important to know because if our thoughts are positive, fantastic. High five. If our thoughts are negative, what is the impact of those negative thoughts on what will happen in our lives? We are thinking negative. We don’t know about negative. We are wondering why we are getting negative results. It’s about thinking about hey, we have anywhere from 55,000-75,000 thoughts a day. Whether those thoughts are negative or positive depends on what we are into that moment, that day.</p> <p>That very next step for me is creating that road map. I know where I’m going. Those three things are important. Now I know where I’m going. I can get there because I can look at that map and know what does it look like every step of the way, and being comfortable with adjusting that. Sometimes we get caught up in it has to be this way, yet it may not. Maybe somebody comes in and short-tracks your entire learning right there. It takes you from Point A to Point Z immediately. Yet if we were to be married to the way things are supposed to be, it’s not going to happen. It may be a long journey, or it may not even happen. If it does, you may not be happy with the process because we put so much effort into it.</p> <p>It’s fascinating to see that. I have seen it over and over again. For instance, when I work with clients, individuals come to me and say, “I want to make more money.” Before they came to me, they had already jumped out of their business, or they took a leap of faith and didn’t have a parachute. That is destructive to see. You must have something that you know whether you’re very centered or grounded. Whether it’s the finances that support you through the process, or it’s just the belief and the action that will take you to your success.</p> <p>The next one is taking that massive action. I have been relentless in taking action my entire life. Getting on a bus, waking up at three o’clock in the morning after I went to sleep at midnight, it’s not something that normal people do. As I hear it from my friends, I like to say that I’m fab-normal because I’m willing to do whatever it takes. That relentlessness and resourcefulness.</p> <p>Something came up right here. Even the word “resentful.” To understand the impact of the words in our world. When a person holds onto feelings, those feelings actually have an impact in our world. What does that impact in our world? That can be detrimental. If I’m holding onto resentment, it’s like drinking poison and expecting somebody else to get hurt in the process, which is one of the worst things that anybody could ever do. To me, it’s blessing that person. I hope that person has an extraordinary time. Yes, it may have cost me time, energy, resources, whatever it may be. I just bless that person and hope that person is in a better place. I truly do. I can move forward.</p> <p>The very last part of it is understanding I must come back and evaluate my process. What does that look like? Does it look like I am tweaking it? Am I testing, tracking what my progress is along the way and making adjustments? I have been caught up in certain parts of my life. Things are going rough, and things happen. We have a setback. What does that look like to be aware that that also has an impact in the way we are thinking and living life?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> All critical stuff for any leader who wants to move forward. These are a lot of things we discuss with people at SynerVision in moving forward. We all have challenges. There are a lot of challenges. You have overcome some great ones. Most people I talk to have overcome some great challenges and don’t always recognize the magnitude of what they have come through. That’s important.</p> <p>Nonprofit leaders are people with a big vision. They want to change the world. Some of them have a lot of these attributes, and the mindset is critical, as you have talked about. What are some of the ways that you have seen leaders you have worked with- If there were what you call three greatest hits for the ways that leaders get in their own way, what would those be?</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> I would say the mindset is probably one of the biggest things in that. That is one of the biggest things that inspired me about our previous conversations and this one as well is looking at how am I getting in the way? Sometimes we hear things we intake from other people. That’s why I shared earlier that we must be intentional about who we’re around. If people are not supporting my vision, then I must look for a group that supports my vision. No matter the way we think about it, we start intaking it. It’s like somebody coming in and throwing garbage on our bed. Would we like that? They throw it little by little by little. Sure enough in time, that bed will be filthy. We are not going to know where to start. Number one is to find a place that supports you in your vision.</p> <p>The other thing is to believe in the fact that there are good people in this world who are willing to help. Here you are, Russell and Hugh. The fact that you’re here to guide individuals, you know the way, you can lead the way, and short-track people’s success. You can go even faster. You can go the fast track or the slow track. What do you want? That’s what I ask my clients, too. What would you like to do? I can take you on any journey. What journey do you want to be on? Do you want to be on the jet that will give you immediate success, or do you want to be on the horse? That’s up to you. I will take you whatever way. I am here to be of service.</p> <p>Know to stay focused on the vision. What is the vision? The vision you came into this nonprofit organization with, the reason why you set it up, who you are going to help will help you to continue to get up every morning and to know that’s what you’re moving toward. Focus on the feeling of what it is you are looking to accomplish, whether that is an individual, a city, a country, the world, whatever it is that is important to you. Focus on the feeling of what it would be like. That is one of the things we don’t focus on enough. We are focused on things are going haywire as opposed to that will feel amazing, that will get me up every single morning. There are mornings I get up, “I am here to serve. I am here to serve the people who are ready to be served.” In that, that inspires me to get up, to get on the stage, to show up every single time whether there is one person in that audience who hears that message, or 100 people who hear it. It’s about showing up and having that belief that gives us the confidence that the more we do it, the easier it becomes.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s what possibility engineering is about. That’s why I am one. There is always a way around something. We can find it with the right support. Becoming what Hugh calls a transformational leader is intentional. It’s deliberate. It’s no accident. Do all people have a capacity to be good leaders? Or is it something you have to be born with?</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> For me, we are all leaders. We are all meant to be leaders. We are leaders of our own life. Let’s be honest. The morning we wake up, we are the CEO of our own company, the financial officer. We are leading ourselves. All of a sudden, somebody put this title up here when in reality it’s there for all of us. We are all leaders in our own way in our own lives.</p> <p>Stepping into leadership to lead others is also when we take some of those fundamentals into life, let’s say that for leadership, I am a mom. Which I am. Looking at that, how do I guide a team? How would I guide them? Do I treat them with empathy and compassion? Do I listen and ask, “Hey Russell, is everything okay? I see the project is not completed on time. Is everything okay? Anything going on with you?” Whether I can help you fix that problem, it also gives you an opportunity to say, I don’t need to hide, because we hide. Whether we realize it or not, because we have been taught not to bring our home selves into work, which also has a huge impact. We can have many conversations. That piece alone, when we are siloing ourselves, here is who I am at work, here is who I am in real life. No, here is who I am as a complete and whole being. Yes, we are all capable of being those extraordinary leaders. Let’s bring some fundamentals. How would we treat our children? Do we want to treat them with empathy and compassion, love, connection? Are there any throwaway people? Not really. Are there any throwaway kids? No, no. In reality, have I found something that connects and inspires them to continue to move forward in the direction of their dreams and their vision?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That sounds like some of the ways a nonprofit leader can lead with a vision. What are the three most important things that a leader can do, especially in the nonprofit sphere, to help make his/her team unstoppable?</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> Encourage self-care. Mindfulness is so important. All of the years I have been around nonprofits simultaneously in 24 years, I have seen the impact of an individual, the burnout. Their heart is in the right place. They want to make an impact on the world. Sometimes, as leaders, we are not consciously aware that they’re running themselves ragged. That is because we have already run ourselves ragged that we are not connected to that. We are numb to the fact they are doing that. Encouraging self-care is important.</p> <p>Check in with people. Connect with them. Get to know them. Ask them questions about their lives. Really get to know them. That is big in my world is to get to know people. Sit down for coffee. Get to know what their vision is. One thing is to know them. How am I going to get to where I want to be? More than a decade ago, I read a book about leadership, and I always thought how I would be the day I became a leader in my organization. What would that look like? I would listen to people. Get to know who you are. This is for me now. I want to get to know who you are. What’s important to you? What would success look like? What do you not have right now that you would have that would light your world up, make it worthwhile? When I know that, I can help that person, as they are helping me to get to my vision, get to their vision.</p> <p>This is not a one-way street. Just because somebody is getting paid does that mean they are disregarded. The fact is they are giving you the most precious thing they have, which is time. You can get anything from anyone. That time that person is giving you cannot be replaced by anybody. We have a certain bucket of hours. We don’t know when our time is called. That is why it makes it so special. Get to know people. Form those relationships. Take time to form those relationships, not just inside your organization, but outside your organization. A lot of people walk around and say, “Marketing is only one person’s responsibility,” when marketing is a way of communication for all of us.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, we got to the halfway point here. We titled our interview “The Five Top Secrets of Unstoppable Leaders.” You shared your seven steps to becoming an intentional leader. I am curious. Are you curious? Let’s see what those five top secrets are.</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> Number one is getting to know myself. Every intentional leader gets to know who they are. They get to know what limits them, what drives them, what excites them, what blocks them. That is so important. First and foremost, get to know yourself. As you get to know yourself, you can get to know others and come from a place of empathy and compassion, and in some cases, ruthless compassion. Get to know yourself. That way, you can get to know others.</p> <p>Hijack your mind. If you can hijack your mind, intentional leaders hijack their mind. They take their learning into their own hands. They are constantly learning from people.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s #2?</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> #2. Continuous learning. Hijacking your mind, and learning from anybody you can learn. There is not just one way of doing things. That is learning more about you. How does that work for you?</p> <p>The next step is showing up from intention with everything that I do. If you look at those three things of leadership that are close to me, the intentionality. If I know I am working with Russell, and I know Russell wants to send his kids to college, Princeton and Yale specifically, how can I help him every day to show up with intention in everything that I do for him? It’s not just me; it’s him.</p> <p>Show up from a place of authenticity, with those values that are so important, connection, vulnerability. What a concept. When people know me as an individual- Let me share one thing on that. I used to speak from a stage. You can give me any topic I’m familiar with, and I did an extraordinary job. When I tell you, when I started to share about me and my journey and where I had been, people would follow me. That was so different because it took something from me to be so vulnerable. I thought that that vulnerability was something that wasn’t supposed to be shown. The moment you show up from a place of authenticity, vulnerability, connection, story, there is a relatedness within others that you can connect with.</p> <p>Showing up with energy, extraordinary energy. Nobody talks about energy. We see leaders from the stage talking and expressing, yet their expressions don’t match what they want us to see from the audience. That is key. It’s very different. I can come in and tell my son, “Son, I really love you,” or I can lean in, “Son, I really love you.” Same intonation. My body speaks louder than words. When we can show up from that place, “It is fantastic to get to know you. It is fantastic to get to be here with you,” that is a different story. When we can look somebody in the eye and ground that person because they have lived whatever is going on in that day, that is what leaders really do. They focus on that individual and pay attention to what that person is going through because they are the most important person in front of them in that moment, just like you are, and each person that I stood in front of before is the most important person in the moment because we all are.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s critical. Those are great attributes for people to have to become unstoppable. I had thought of an acronym for hijack. I remember writing a piece quite some time ago. I have to gout and find that. Those are characteristics of extraordinary leaders, too.</p> <p>When you go into your typical workplace, and it doesn’t seem to matter which type, there are some challenges you have in nonprofit workplaces that you might not have in others. What is missing in the workplace when it comes to leadership? What are some of the things that are missing? How is that impacting the effectiveness of both nonprofit and profit-making entities?</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> The most important thing that is missing is our humanity, the fact that we are not seeing each other as human beings, that we are more concerned about the work, that we are not thinking about our impact. We work in silos, and we work not just in a silo, but we think that our work only impacts us. In reality, our work impacts everybody in the organization.</p> <p>When I start thinking from a place of how this impacts the other individual- Let’s take the engineering world. Engineers, I have the extraordinary ability to be able to make them dance. Presidents of associations don’t even know what happened the moment they walk in a room. Why are they connected? Why are they dancing? Why are they engaged? Allow me to share.</p> <p>It’s that humanity, connecting from the heart, connecting with individuals, and also understanding their world. What’s going on in their world? We talk about how sometimes we hoard information. In that hoarding of information, we are withholding from our project and everybody. How we do anything is how we do everything. Everything we do has an impact on what we do and how we show up in the world. Emotions.</p> <p>When we talk about passive-aggressive, we know that 66% of individuals don’t like their jobs. People have been chasing money. They went into careers because they thought they were going to make money, not because that’s what they felt made them happy. I chased money. I know what that looks like. I know what that feels like. That’s a lonely world. I have also come in from a place of I wanted to inspire. The more I drifted away from that, the more miserable I was. The more I walked into it, I was happier. How can this be? Do I get paid for this? I love that fact. That’s where the happiness comes from.</p> <p>When we know that 28% of individuals are passive-aggressive, what does that look like? What are the implications? When we talk about an apple spoiling the bunch, that will happen. When we know that more than 89% of individuals who volunteer, and this is what’s missing. We are not doing something that is outside of ourselves, contributing to others. When we know that that happens as a leader, I can support my people more. There are so many things. Those are the most important things.</p> <p>One other thing I feel is important is emotions in the workplace. They are real. They will make or break your business, whether we understand them or not. People are running around passive-aggressive. I have spoken inside of businesses and spoken with CEOs of companies, and in between. The thing that I see the most common is our feelings that are getting impacted. Anger, resentment, rage, shame. We don’t feel good enough. We don’t feel worthy enough to be where we’re at. Wherever we may be, those emotions have an impact. If we are running around withholding in our world, it won’t work.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There are a lot of stuff packed into this narrative you just gave us. You are expanding on something you said early on. How you had influence on others. Leaders are influencers. You mentioned that early and whizzed by a strong sound bite about how we do anything is how we do everything. That is so true. You worked that through your narrative. A lot of good stuff.</p> <p>There is a lot of resonance in what we teach. Some of the key points of resonance is we teach that leadership is founded in relationship. You’re talking about the aspects of that. Communication is likewise. We call this passive-aggressive triangling. People are taking an odd position in a triangle against another person. You have this power position of a triangle. What is lacking is relationship. You pull those people together and expose that toxic passive-aggressive stuff. There is no way to deal with it without pulling a triangle together and exposing it to light. Fungus dies in the light. We just got to get it out. There are those unhealthy systems.</p> <p>Russell, she is giving us a lot. We have time for a couple more questions. A whole lot of content packed into this. I bet Russell has another great question up his sleeve.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One of the things that we haven’t covered yet is Rocio does work with a nonprofit called GlobalMinded. That is all about diversity and inclusion. We are almost due for a panel on that. I have read studies. I know that the Denver Foundation did a lot of work just a few years ago to help cultivate diversity and inclusion in nonprofits. How important is that to leadership? What does that look like from your perspective?</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> It’s so important from a leadership perspective. Diversity and diversity of thought. Two important things. It’s so important to include individuals. I have walked into rooms where people have had this problem for a very long time. For instance, I came in to deliver a presentation. It was a team of basketball youth. They couldn’t get through. Some were doubting themselves. They didn’t know what was happening. Because of my experiences in the world, I was able to walk in there. They have been working on this for nine months. I was able to walk in there and in 15 minutes help them shift. In 15 minutes, they were in tears because they were so excited. They were excited about new possibilities and opportunities. In 20 minutes, some people turned around and said, “We are going to church tomorrow just because of what we have seen.”</p> <p>To be able to take other individuals’ experiences, when we invite those experiences to the table, regardless of the fact- I love background. I’d love to hire somebody from prison. I’d love to hire somebody who has had these life experiences because they know certain things that we’re missing. I’d love to see- I heard that. I heard a lady who was hiring a number of individuals who were from prison. Why? She sat down and asked them, when she got past the idea this person was from prison, “Let’s talk about marketing. How did you market?” “I never did.” “How did you sell drugs or do whatever?” This person started saying, “I studied my market. I did this and that.” When you can start taking those gifts, to me they are gifts, from every person, and encourage them. I work on a global scale.</p> <p>One of the most fascinating things and saddening things is so many people sit around a table and confess to me, “You know what, Rocio? I just don’t say anything because I don’t feel my voice counts there. I don’t feel I have anything to say.” Wow, there is so much for you to say and contribute. I want to hear you. I want to hear your voice. In some cases, people show up and say, “I don’t know if I should ask for this, or maybe I sound too arrogant for wanting this.” Arrogant? We should all have what we want out of life. A leader should help individuals tap into what’s possible, not where this person wants to go. If we see there is much greater potential, take them to that potential.</p> <p>That’s been the reason why the people I have worked with have had so much success. I have taken cohorts of people who have had 100% graduation from our programs. 100%. Unheard of. How did that happen? That happened because I saw their potential, and I led them to their potential. You don’t want to scare people. You don’t want to get them into freak-out zone. You want to get them into possibility and building those blocks overnight. I hope that answered your question.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Part of our methodology as we go in and do live events, we bring people in, we put low-tech tools into their hands. Give them markers and sticky pads, things to write on, because one of the things that happens in a group dynamic is you get certain people who take over. The extroverts take over. Your people are your best assets. You’re leaving brain power on the table when you have two or three voices out of a group of 20 who are dominating the discussion. It’s leveraging that with people being your most important asset and taking time to develop them, give them ways to develop. That is something a lot of nonprofits don’t do. They don’t feel like they have the resources.</p> <p>You hit on a point earlier when you talked about taking time to sit and talk with people. That costs you nothing but a few minutes. You have some coffee and get to know people. That’s a powerful thing: to get that buy-in and make sure every voice at the table is heard. Bring in new ideas. The idea of being teachable, being flexible, and there are so many things.</p> <p>Today’s workplace, we have people from 18-80 everywhere. It’s a different type of future that we’re looking at as far as the work force goes and the way people approach things. How do we prepare for a workplace of the future from the perspective of being a leader so we can grow and develop them?</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> I love the question. I love the question. As a matter of fact, I presented on the national level about this specifically. In preparation for the future of the gig economy, which we’re in, and looking at how we transform the world, for me, is to really encourage that connection individual to individual. Encourage individual stories. Encourage the authenticity and vulnerability. Understand the distinctions between being vulnerable and feeling vulnerable. Understand those distinctions. Being vulnerable is I get to share myself with you, what’s important to me, what’s near and dear to my heart versus feeling vulnerable, which is feeling attacked by someone. That throws me into survival mode. Encourage people to connect with each other.</p> <p>Truly listen. I heard you talking about listening to individuals. That is so important. Find a way. Learn about listening. What we have been doing, and I can almost guarantee you that there are very few people in the world like you guys who actually hear what people are saying. That is what makes extraordinary leaders. We are looking at 2-3% of people in the world who are extraordinary leaders. They have the ability to be able to listen because we feed back into that individual not only what they heard, also what’s possible and that world of possibility.</p> <p>You’re looking at many other themes of encouraging self-leadership. I am not here to do it for you. Even when I work with clients, I am not here to give them the magic solution. I am here to help them rediscover what’s already in them. I am not here to teach them anything. That is fascinating from what other individuals are doing. It’s perfect. It works out for them and their client. For us, what makes it sustainable is clients work with us for one year. That’s the max. That’s it. I have shared every tool and resource and helped you reflect through a process. Reflecting helps people. Figure out how to best coach each individual. Understanding their personalities. Those are the key things that are important for me.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Awesome. When you are talking about listening, when I teach leadership, I come from the perspective of a musical conductor. Listening is essential for us. It’s not a fine-tuned skill for most leaders I meet. Listening happens with your ears and your eyes. There are subtle things people communicate in various ways. There are lots of ways we communicate when we never say a word. There is the listening that makes us aware of what’s going on around us. This has been good stuff packed into a short interview.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from Wordsprint*</p> <p>Rocio, as you are wrapping up this great stuff, what is a thought or challenge you’d like to leave with us, especially the people working in the hardest place in the world, which is the clergy or nonprofit leaders, working in this space with volunteers? What would you like to leave them with today?</p> <p><strong>Rocio:</strong> Lead them with your vision. Get to know yourself. I will repeat that one. Get to know yourself; that way, you can get to know others. Through that, lead them with your vision. Authentically connect. Get to know their vision and how your visions connect together. Being very intentional about what you’re doing. Invest in yourself. Invest in your mind. Invest in your people. Your people are your greatest assets. I love the fact that you get to help individuals from all over the world. You gentlemen help so many people through this. One of the most impactful things I have heard is my impact is your impact. When we can see that in another, when we can help them achieve that goal we are working on together, we know our impact is even greater. We did an assessment earlier this year. Just to know I by myself in a company with others, I could go so far, yet to go even further, to make that global impact, has to take a lot of individuals who are committed and who can see that vision. Because of that, we were able to reach 1.5 million in months. That would have taken years to achieve. Yet that achievement was it was because it was all of us.</p> <p>I make the invitation for those who want to come and join and connect with us. We have unstoppables. Www.SevenStepsToUnstoppableBook.com. We have a free webinar for individuals. You can come on board and send me a quick email. Whoever signs up and purchases the book through that can get a free one-hour webinar and go through that process. When you get more knowledge and get more understanding, you shift into wisdom. That is important. We can talk about this like you gentlemen do so beautifully. It comes from the heart. It’s there for you. It becomes a part of who you are. Leadership is who I am.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Rocio, thank you so much for sharing your time with us and connecting with our audience. Thank you, folks who are watching and listening for all that you do to make the world a better place.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange Highlights with Russ and Hugh</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-highlights-with-russ-and-hugh</link>
      <description>Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange
 [caption id="attachment_258" align="alignleft" width="150"]Hugh Ballou
 Hugh Ballouand Russell Dennis, co-hosts of The Nonprofit Exchange provide highlights from interviews over the past few months.
 Russell Dennis
  
 Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership.
 Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past 6-months episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 23 Jun 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/785b0bd4-b329-11eb-9f0f-b73398a30d18/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Review of the First Half of 2019</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange
 [caption id="attachment_258" align="alignleft" width="150"]Hugh Ballou
 Hugh Ballouand Russell Dennis, co-hosts of The Nonprofit Exchange provide highlights from interviews over the past few months.
 Russell Dennis
  
 Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership.
 Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past 6-months episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange</strong></h1> <p>[caption id="attachment_258" align="alignleft" width="150"]<a href="https://hughballou.com/"><br></a><strong>Hugh Ballou</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou</strong>and <strong>Russell Dennis</strong>, co-hosts of The Nonprofit Exchange provide highlights from interviews over the past few months.</p> <p><a><br></a><strong>Russell Dennis</strong></p> <p> </p> <p>Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership.</p> <p>Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past 6-months episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Tips to Becoming an Exceptional Board Member w/Jeb Banner</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/tips-to-becoming-an-exceptional-board-member-wjeb-banner</link>
      <description>Tips to Becoming an Exceptional Board Member with Jeb Banner
 As the CEO and a Founder of Boardable, Jeb Banner is passionate about community nonprofits, entrepreneurship, and more. He also founded SmallBox, a creative agency for mission-driven organizations, and is co-founder of The Speak Easy and founder of Musical Family Tree, both 501(c)(3) nonprofits.
  
 Interview Transcript
 Jeb Banner: More and more. I was running another business at the time, which worked mostly with nonprofits called SmallBox, a creative agency here in Indy. As we raised some money and as the business turned off, I shifted from SmallBox to Boardable in the course of 2017. I went full-time in 2018. My wife actually took over the agency and runs that now. We are all in the same building in Indianapolis here in the old library. We still get to work together, but different floors.
 Hugh Ballou: Awesome. Jeb, we write a plan, set some goals, and we give it to the board. It’s all a done deal. The board embraces it. What is your experience with boards?
 Jeb: Boards are busy. Boards are over-committed. Board members are often serving on multiple boards. They are spread thin. This is one of the challenges we want to solve in the product, eventually building out a talent marketplace on Boardable’s platform to give boards access to a wider pool of talent. This is a real challenge. These great people who serve on boards often get called to serve on other boards. When they show up, they’re often reading the material at the Stop sign, on the drive in, in the parking lot, during the meeting. They’re not always prepared. Board members, as much as they really want to give everything they can, they don’t really have the time to do it because they’re spread so thin. Nonprofits struggle to hold board members accountable because they don’t feel comfortable asking them to follow through in a way they should sometimes, or really do the role they need to do in the organization because they’re volunteers. It’s hard to make demands of a volunteer. A lot of what we’re trying to do is build into the product ways for those board members to be nudged toward the right behaviors.
 Hugh: Well, this is fascinating. Russell, you worked with a nonprofit Indian reservation for many years. Are you hearing some things jump out about boards that you’d like to probe?
 Russell Dennis: Communication is probably the biggest challenge that board leaders and boards have. We had the challenge up there where I was working of geography working against us. Our board members were scattered over an area that was about the size of Rhode Island and Connecticut combined in a county called Aroostook. Our council members, the government body, or board if you will, would travel from long distances, 60-65 miles some of them, to attend the meeting. We had bi-weekly meetings. In northern Maine, weather is an issue. Being able to communicate is pretty tough. There is more technology available for that. There is challenges in conducting board meetings and staying in touch. Yes, I agree that getting things done can be tough. It can be pretty tricky.
 A lot of times, when folks like you, entrepreneurs and consultants, people have problems that drive them bananas, that keep them awake. What were some of the key things that were driving you crazy that you thought you had to fix, that motivated you and inspired you to develop a platform to help board members operate an organization more smoothly?
 Jeb: I think the #1 thing is communication. What you just said there is true. Keeping up that communication between meetings. Doing it in a way that meets people where they are. Everybody has their own style. Some people like to text, some like to email, and some like phone calls. You have people at different technology levels, too. The boards I was running had less of that challenge. Boards I sit on now, that is one of the challenges they have.
 The #1 headache I experienced as a board chair was centralizing everything. So much was going into my inbox, like the bylaws would be attached to an email from two years ago. Where was the bylaws? There is no central repository. If somebody rolled off the board, their inbox rolled off the board with them. All that communication, all those documents they may have been working on just vanishes. That is a real problem with boards. There is no continuity if you are using those kinds of tools. They are not built for that. They are built for immediacy. That centralization was pain point #1.
 After that comes the communication pain point. Having a place where everything flows. If you start a discussion in Boardable, it goes into their inbox and phones. It responds, and it goes back in. It’s always back in the system. That is a real headache.
 The third thing we thought about was it has to be super easy to use. It has to be simple. If you give a board member a tool they can’t use, if they can’t log in, if they can’t make sense of it, it’s worthless. It can do all the things in the world, but it’s worthless. As we have gotten into it further, we think about it a lot more around engagement. We have different dimensions of engagement we think about as well. We can chat about that later.
 The initial problems were centralization, communication, and simplification.
 Hugh: Boardable.com. That’s quite an impressive site. We have a couple folks I want to shout out to. Don Ward, who is in Orlando, Florida. He is the president of the CEO clubs in central Florida. Has groups that talk about leadership, business development, and nonprofits. He said, “Board members need to be trained. They think their input and power is far more than it was ever supposed to be. What if…” How would you respond to that, Jeb?
 Jeb: I think setting and managing expectations with a board member, and that is part of that training, around what their role and responsibility is on the board. Different boards have different levels of responsibility to the organization. Some boards really do have a high level. Fiduciary responsibility in most cases. There are real consequences to their decisions. They often don’t understand that. They don’t understand they are playing with fire, if you will. This is not a practice. Other boards are more advisory, where they are just giving input. Defining that role, and saying to the board member, “Hey, this is what we expect of you. This is your lane.” And being clear about that up front through board training, onboarding, mentorship—giving them a mentor to work with on the board—is a missed opportunity. Based on our research, two thirds to three fourths fail to do any onboarding or training. Then you have a board member that doesn’t know what is expected of them, so they run wild. I agree with that comment. I think board members, not maliciously, they don’t just know their role, so they do what they think they need to do.
 Hugh: You’re so right. Without clear expectations, leaders are actually setting up conflict. People don’t know where to- They can’t color inside the lines because they don’t know where the lines are.
 Jeb: That’s right. I think a lot of times, leaders are timid about this. They are uncomfortable having that conversation. They are uncomfortable telling that powerful donor that has joined the board, “Don’t do this.” They have trouble giving them those lines because they are writing checks in some cases, or they are influential. They struggle with that accountability and that clarity.
 Hugh: That’s a big deal. I hear leaders say, “I can’t correct them because they are volunteers. They’re giving their time.” I served megachurches for 40 years. I had plenty of opportunities to fire volunteers. Sometimes they were happy about it. Most of the time, they were happy about it because they knew it wasn’t a good fit. Actually, I got to a place where we eliminated the word “volunteer” because a lot of the language, like “nonprofit,” which is a lie, and “volunteer,” which is dumbing down, some of the language we use actually contributes to the lower functioning. In the church, we created members of the ministry. It was a leadership position. In my symphony, I am the president of the symphony here, we are on the road to creating a servant leader model, where people have a track, and they lead in the model here. There is a whole lot of things that we set up that we unintentionally set up problems. Talk about this- There is a fear of conflict. People want to step away from it, which fosters it. Making course corrections doesn’t mean you have to tell people they are wrong. Talk about that interaction. That is a big deal, I think.
 Jeb: I often think- Are you familiar with Patrick Lencioni, the author?
 Hugh: Five Dysfunctions…
 Jeb: Five Dysfunctions of a Team. You look at that pyramid. You have to have that trust in order to have conflict, which gets into commitment, which leads to accountability to reinforce it, which outputs results. To have that alignment there, you have to start with trust. Making sure that board member is part- Trust is being part of a team, feeling like they are safe to step up. They can talk about their concerns. They feel they are in a safe space to speak their mind. It’s very hard to engender that without some of that teambuilding work that you need to do with boards. There is some socialization to that. I use a design thinking framework when I work with boards to do small group activities to push conversations and connections so that people feel like they know each other and there is a foundation of trust so they can start to move in that conflict. Conflict is critical. You need to have conflict on a board. Healthy, productive conflict. Not political drama-based conflict, but real conflict where people really care about things.
 Hugh: it’s a sign of energy, isn’t it?
 Jeb: It’s a sign of life. If you don’t have it, you have a problem. If everybody is sitting there going, “Yeah, yeah, yeah,” you have a dysfunctional board. It may not look like it, but it’s dysfunctional.
 Hugh: The only place I have seen where there is no conflict is a cemetery.
 Jeb: There is conflict in the earth between the body and the ground, I’ll tell you that much.
 Hugh: Oh man. Another watching on Facebook is Don Green, who is in Wise, Virginia. Don Green is the executive director of a nonprofit called The Napoleon Hill Foundation. Don is sending his thank you because this is useful information.
 Russell, do you want to weigh in on this leader making course corrections? I think this is a bigger topic than most people realize.
 Russell: Running a nonprofit or an organization is just like flying a plane. When you get into a plane, your pilot takes off, and they are flying along. They are off course the vast majority of the time. They spend the whole time course-correcting. You know where you’re leaving from, and you know where you’re going, but you make a lot of adjustments along the way. Running an organization is a lot like that. That is the thing.
 I had somebody say to me one time. I was attending a church many years ago back home. These guys are all nice. One of the deacons said, “If you like everybody you’ve met here, you haven’t been to enough services.” There is going to be that conflict from time to time. It’s important to be able to come back together at the end of that day and agree on the common goal. How you get there could be an interesting dynamic. If everybody was the same, people would get bored and walk away. That dynamic tension is what makes the work exciting.
 Jeb: Absolutely.
 Hugh: You don’t want a bunch of yes people, do you?
 Russell: No, it would be very dull.
 Hugh: Also, we create a culture that is the opposite, where people are afraid of standing out and saying their mind. The real meeting happens in the parking lot. “So yeah, I knew what was going on in there, but here is what I think.” Triangling going on.
 Jeb, let’s forecast. What does a really great board look like? We were talking about the exceptional board member. Either the board as a whole or a board member. Tell us what that looks like from your perspective.
 Jeb: I think there are a few dimensions to this. You have the composition of the board itself. The board should be somewhat reflective, not entirely one-to-one of the people it’s serving, but somewhat reflective so there is an empathetic connection to the service being provided. Then I think there should be diversity of age, race, gender. It needs to bring in different perspectives. I don’t have an exact formula for that, but a healthy board has a level of diversity there.
 Getting into the roles of the board. You look at that. We need someone who has a legal background, depending on the organization, a finance background, a marketing background. It’s important to have that composition as well.
 Then you look at the actual activity of the board. That’s where I think about engagement. I think about seven dimensions of engagement.
 Preparation for a board meeting. Are they preparing? Are they reading the materials?
 Are they showing up to the meetings?
 Are they following through on what they said they would do?
 Are they volunteering, getting involved in the organization so they feel the impact of the work?
 Are they advocating on behalf of the organization?
 Are they fundraising? Helping raise money.
 Are they donating? Writing the checks.
 Looking across those seven dimensions, and then looking at those other areas, I think that then you need leadership. That is the last ingredient. To make sure you have that foundation of safety and trust for conflict, which leads to a healthy dialogue and the ability of that board to really, truly govern the organization.
 Russell: Our friend Dr. David Gruder develops a lot of tools around that for people to talk to one another. There are some other resources out there like Difficult Conversations by Douglas Stone and Bruce Patten. It’s important to be able to do that. What it boils down to is being genuine and authentic. You’re communicating in respectable ways. What are some of the tools you have provided to help board members do that in organizations you work with?
 Jeb: I’m familiar with Crucial Conversations. Is that a similar framework to what you’re talking about?
 Russell: Yes, they are different.
 Jeb: Crucial Conversations is wonderful training. I have done that a couple times. I think that’s great training. It’s a little extensive for a full board to go through. In my experience, I have a background in design thinking. It’s a framework that people-centered. It’s empathy-based. It’s all about starting with the problem. Trying to create a consensus around what the problem is, not what the solution is. There is a lot of different exercises that come from that, different ways that you can facilitate whole and small group exercises. You can do research.
 There is a whole toolkit that my previous company SmallBox used in our work with nonprofits and boards. For instance, organizational values, which is a part of what the board needs to do. They need to be a part of that values conversation. Mission, vision, those conversations as well. Then you get into strategic planning. There are tools around that from the design thinking background that are helpful for that.
 Working with the United Way board here in town, we recently redesigned their entire board governance approach. It started with working in small groups to bring in ideas and socialize ideas with the larger board to then refine those, and take those back to leadership, and put them into a plan. I follow that approach, which is more organic. I do think there is good tools out there. My background and training is more in that design thinking framework, which is more custom to the situation.
 Russell: Custom solution is different. Everyone is different. Everyone on the board is different. What are some challenges in making a board run efficiently that you’ve seen across various types of organizations, some of the universal ones?
 Jeb: Meetings. Time management. Managing the agenda, managing the conversations, making sure that people are staying on topic. You don’t have people grandstanding. Every board has someone who loves to hear themselves talk. There have been times where it’s been me. I love to hear myself talk. But having the chair or the executive director, it’s best when it’s the chair, be an active facilitator and have some facilitation training, so they learn how to bring in others, make sure everyone has that safe space to be heard. I think that’s critical in a productive board experience. Everything about the board is that meeting. Like you said, the parking lot conversations, that starts to happen a lot when the dysfunction of that meeting deepens. All of that stuff ripples out. You have phone calls and emails. It cascades when that meeting is ineffective.
 Hugh: I’m a conductor. Especially the better they are, every ensemble rehearses for every performance. We don’t rehearse. Some of the stuff you’re talking about is how we get better at what we do. In a sense, rehearsals, I’d like to share with you sometime later. Meetings are the #1 killer of teams. I have a whole piece that says the agenda is the killer of productivity. Agendas don’t use agendas for rehearsals; we use deliverables. We can accomplish. Goals for the session. We focus on outcomes. That is a reframing. I see everything as a rehearsal. I’m sorry.
 Jeb: Sure, I can relate to that.
 Hugh: There are so many things you’ve hit on that are big-deal things that we have to be selective here. I want to go back to this board governance. Russell, he threw a zinger in there that had fire in the name. Did you hear that? About governance and board members.
 Jeb: Playing with fire.
 Russell: Playing with fire, yeah.
 Hugh: Expand on that a little bit. Not having ONC insurance, DNC insurance, Arizona missions not having-
 Russell: Directors and offices liability insurance policies. It’s critical to protect yourself and to keep the structures separate. Compliance is a big deal when it comes to running these organizations. There is a lot of documentation that is required. Have you found that boards warm up to the challenge of keeping all of that in order?
 Jeb: Absolutely. I just recently joined a board. A week later, the board resigned, not because I joined the board, but because of issues in the organization. I was the last board member standing. This was an experience. Part of it was because the insurance had not been taken care of. There were other issues and lapse that were not being brought to the board’s attention. It was a two-way street. The leadership in the organization wasn’t doing its job, but neither was the board. The board needs to push to get clarity on those things. Part of why that happened is they did push. It was a bit of a mess.
 I found myself moving into a chair role when I expected to be a board member, and having to help the organization, and still now, get back up on its feet. It’s been a crash course in a lot of the things we’re talking about. When I’m talking about playing with fire, I am speaking from experience. That’s fire.
 You’re talking about vehicle insurance and transporting kids. You have to think about that stuff. The board is on the hook. The buck stops with the board. The board is the boss. I don’t think board members really get that when they sign up. I don’t think they really get that. I think they would take their jobs more seriously if they understood the consequences of not doing their jobs. I think that’s a real failure in leadership because they’re too timid about that conversation.
 Russell: That baptism by fire when I worked with the Micmac nation is the same baptism by fire you’re talking about. In terms of documentation, there are so many things that have to be kept in one place. Does your platform help with that? Does it help to deal with governing documents and creating a space where people can collaborate and have these conversations? That is another common problem. I have my favorite tools I use to work with. I have different clients who like different tools, some of which I’m not crazy about. It’s about getting things done, so I have learned to use a number of different things. That’s not always conducive to good communication and keeping things working. Talk about if you could address the importance of organizing all of your compliance documents and processes.
 Jeb: That is what Boardable does. Thanks for the pitch there. The problem that we see with a lot of boards is that nothing is one place. When a new board member rolls on, they’re forwarding them emails. The mess grows and expands. Having all documents, everything that you’re doing in one place so that no matter what, you’ve got it right here on the app. You have your directory, your documents. You can call someone from here. You have your groups, agendas, minutes, and voting, everything you need in one place, your notifications, tasks, follow-up items. And you integrate with all those other tools. That is the key here. You have to integrate with Google Docs and Dropbox and Microsoft and calendars and emails because people won’t stop using those tools. They shouldn’t. They work. We have to meet them where they are. A lot of what we focus on is accepting the board experience as it is and coming alongside and bringing value and augmenting what they’re doing.
 Hugh: What you don’t know is the guy who comes knocking at the door from the IRS was Russell. He knows about compliance. He wants to see your corporate record book. I find many, if any, executives who understand what the function of the record book is and what should be in there. Is that part of your program as well?
 Jeb: Yes, it automatically organizes all those documents into folders. You can lock and control them depending on committee access. All those meetings are automatically archived historically. Who was in attendance? Who wasn’t? You create a report that shows everything that happened. When the IRS does knock at the door, you can show them exactly what you did, how you voted. There is the agenda from that meeting, whatever you need to show them. Fortunately, I have not been audited yet. Hopefully that doesn’t happen here soon. But when Russell does knock at my door, I’m confident at least with the organizations I’m involved with and our customers they’ll be ready.
 Hugh: You’re audit-ready.
 Jeb: I hope so. I’ll ask my CFO and see if he has the answers.
 Hugh: Russell is on a good track here with compliance. I do think most are blind to this. That’s why you got us on here. This sounds like valuable stuff, doesn’t it, Russ?
 Russell: It is. As far as having processes, a lot of the problems revolve around people using a different language in addition the tools they think differently. There are certain things that have to be in place. if you can create a way where people have that common understanding and can access stuff. Brendan Burchard talks about creating different products, courses, approaching consulting, and he talks about tools. One of the things he says is if it’s not easy to access, understand, and use, people aren’t going to bother with it. Meetings get complicated. A tool like that, Hugh’s publication on conducting a successful meeting, because it really breaks things down and makes it manageable.
 Jeb: Absolutely. If you can’t use the tool, if you can’t log in, if it’s frustrating or confusing, give it 10, 15, maybe 30 seconds, and at that point, you are going back to what you know. This is where things get hard. The organization often caters to the board. They want the board to be taken care of. If the board says this isn’t working for me, whatever it is, they will print out the packet. They will do whatever they need to do to help the board. It’s good and bad. It’s good to take care of your board. The board needs that information. I think it’s also good sometimes that organization needs to push the board more than they do. Too often, they cater and capitulate to the board instead of pushing the board to do best practices in terms of how they want to communicate. They have to give them tools that are easy to use. That is super critical.
 Hugh: Jeb, let’s take a case study. Is that okay? A real, live situation. I am the president of the board, the board chair, of the Lynchburg Symphony. We have 24 board members. A third rotate each year. It’s a three-year gig. We have a moving and family situation, so we have 10 new members coming in. A week and a half from now, we are doing our strategy, some people would call it a retreat, but we are going to charge. We are not retreating. It’s a work session, which is different from a board meeting. We have a planning session. I have highly skilled board members that are committee chairs of development, finance, events, and concert programs. We are mapping the future. Our proprietary strategy is called a solution map. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there? it’s the basic rubric of a strategic plan, but more nonprofit-friendly.
 We are doing our planning session. I already met with all the chairs and the new conductor. We are starting a new era with a new conductor. I am succeeding a president who put a lot of systems in place. I am inheriting a sound board and a sound organization, financially and structurally, and we are moving it up. What do you think is the most important things that I should do with incoming board members as we strategize on our work and integrating our work together as we plan for the next five years, and specifically the next year?
 Jeb: I think that the onboarding piece is critical. We talked about that earlier. Making sure they know what is expected of them and what their role is. I think that’s important. Assigning them a board mentor is important as well if that is something you can do. That can give them navigational help on a peer level. The third thing is getting them a committee assignment as soon as possible. They need to feel like they have a role on the board. The board meeting, they will feel they are observers for a while. They may ask some questions, but they may not feel they have a really defined role. That onboarding, setting roles and responsibilities, getting them a mentor, getting them on a committee are three initial things you can do that will increase their engagement and make them feel like they are a part of something. That is the initial phase.
 Hugh: Russell, I did all of those.
 Jeb: Good job!
 Russell: Yes, you did. Building a board book. When people go through our leadership symposium, it’s a board book. It lays out a big-picture overview of some things you do. He has other materials he’s built that could actually take leaders through a reflective process. Having what we call a board book has the information that people need. Setting up some training around that and having them go through that, as well as having a mentor, is great. As you are bringing somebody on board, you want to find out what lights their fire. What is something they just can’t wait to get out of bed to do? They are going to have some ownership around that. They will have ideas around that. Good leaders build better leaders. You set the parameters for success, and you turn them loose and let them run with it.
 Jeb: That’s a great point. Tapping into what they’re passionate about is critical. That is often a conversation before they join the board, but it can be an ongoing conversation of what is the why. What is the why here? There has to be some alignment between their why and the organization’s why. If that is missing, they’re not going to be engaged. There will be misalignment. That leads to dysfunction, which can be challenging.
 Hugh: I like that word, “dysfunction.”
 Russell: Especially if they are effective and highly visible, everyone accepts Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny is running after them to get them on their board of directors. That’s fine if they have the bandwidth to do it. What I have seen on occasion is they are not clear with what they want to do or accomplish. They’re not sure what they want from the board members. Typically, they find people who they love and adore, who they’re good friends with, who support them. They don’t always take that inventory of exactly what they need, and can’t always define that commitment. What are some of the things you have seen? How have you been able to address those types of issues?
 Jeb: In terms of aligning their commitment?
 Russell: And crafting a set of expectations.
 Jeb: To be honest, I haven’t done that as much as I should have. The previous time, I was chairing two nonprofits I co-founded, and they were like start-ups. It was a bootstraps situation, where the founders became the board members. We added from there. With the board I am rejuvenating right now, we are in triage mode. We are trying to get up and running.
 With the larger board I serve on, the United Way board, they are much more intentional about this experience. It’s been good to watch from that perspective. I have a financial commitment to the board I’m making, which is important. A lot of boards have that. The more mature and functional board, which this one certainly is, they know what they’re doing, they’re intentional. They have a full-time administrator working with the board. There are clear commitments. I sign things every year. They talk about it a lot. They have one-on-one sessions with me every year to talk about my giving, where I’m going with my life. How is United Way going to be a part of that? I have seen that be effective.
 I see it more with my customers, but I am speaking from my own experience. I have been more on the start-up side of boards. When a board is starting up, the start-up phase is different. You have the start-up, the growth, and the cruise. The cruise control one is where United Way is. It’s healthy, big, knows what it’s doing. Different dynamics, different needs. It changes as the board changes.
 Russell: A lot of tools we put together here at SynerVision address organizations at different stages. What I love about the model Hugh has created is it’s perfect for somebody who is starting. If you can structure everything right, which isn’t always the case, you’re going to have fewer problems later.
 Hugh: Thank you for highlighting that. What I see, Jeb, is we do the people part of this. What’s missing is all the stuff you highlighted. The plethora of emails that is a cancer. I remember when we didn’t have email, when we didn’t have the Internet, we didn’t have cell phones or texting. We keep adding things, but we never take anything away. People are just bombarded. Sometimes they don’t read anything.
 You’ve covered so many important topics here. Russell, you never saw this happen, but I have seen this happen. Board members come unprepared to a meeting.
 Russell: That happens?
 Jeb: I’ve never seen that happen.
 Russell: When did that start?
 Jeb: Shocking.
 Hugh: They’re busy people. They leave a board meeting and get sucked into the vortex of life. The next thing they know, there is another meeting coming up at 6:00. What was I supposed to do? It’s the engagement piece that keeps people tuned in between meetings. One of my missions in meetings is we teach people that we don’t work at meetings, we work in between meetings. We check in. it’s an accountability system. A planning session is different. A regular board meeting, we report on what we’ve done, and we define what we’re going to do and look for those points of collaboration and collision that we want to work on. Speak about those topics.
 Jeb: You’re totally right. It’s the in-between that is so important. Board members think of their board services as simply the meeting. Here I am, I’m in the meeting. There are some boards where that is truly their role. That goes back to defining roles and responsibilities. If all they are doing is being advisory, or simply sitting there to listen and decide, that is one thing. A healthy board has projects and activities running in between meetings. To do that, there is a lot of management. You have to set that expectation up front of what kind of hours you are committing a month when you join this board. Very few boards have that conversation. They talk about the board meetings. They talk maybe about committees. Talking about the hours you will commit and spend. This is two or three hours a week, we expect you to come in for a meeting, etc. We redesigned the committees at United Way, and it has been a fascinating experience. We are moving more toward work groups. More ad hoc. Is this getting you excited?
 Hugh: Oh yeah. There is the old adage that committees are a place where good ideas go to die.
 Jeb: I respect that committees are still the primary vehicle for a lot of organizations and our customers. I think there are healthy committees. The idea of being more ad hoc subject matter experts that come together as needed around a problem to solve that problem. Those are being formed as needed. During board meetings, between board meetings. They are reporting back. You have a platform, whether it’s Boardable or something else, where they are able to collaborate, share content documents. That creates visibility to others in the organization so that work is not entirely happening in a silo. That makes the work more effective. It multiplies that work. That move is a good one. It gives people something to do. I hate sitting in a committee meeting and feeling like I have nothing to do with what’s being talked about. I want to feel like I have some skin in the game.
 Hugh: Absolutely. Russell, this is music to our ears, isn’t it?
 Russell: This is great stuff. Solution sessions are great because you got to get in there, got to get it done. You don’t have time to goof around. Having people with the right information. Understanding the roles and how everybody fits is communication. That is where things slip through the cracks, when somebody says, “I thought you were going to take care of that.” “Didn’t we agree you would?” You end up in this back and forth. You definitely want to stay out of that. You want to stay out of finger-pointing as well. What you’re doing is too important. Finger-pointing solves no problems. It keeps you away from course-correcting.
 Hugh: I love it. My meetings always end with an action plan. Who is going to do it? What is the action? To do what? Who is the champion? What is the deadline? It ends up with a communication board. What is the specific message somebody that is not here needs to know? Who was going to tell them? We don’t think of those things. We sit around and talk about things to do. Everyone assumes the facilitator will do them.
 Man, it’s been a lot of very helpful content here. What are board ambassadors? I want to ask you two questions. What are board ambassadors? There are groups, governance and financial oversight, which is your board of directors. The symphony has an advisory council. They are just what you said. We ask their advice. And we have advisors at large, people we call from time to time to give us advice. Those are the three sets of people we have connected. But the board of directors is fitting in to the role you are talking about, the group that is responsible for this organization. Are there other entities, besides committees or work groups or project teams, you find are helpful?
 Jeb: You have YP boards. They are good to create a feeder system for the main board. Young professional boards. They are that group of younger people in their career, in their 20s often, who are rising in their careers. We see that happening more and more with nonprofits. They have YP boards. They can pick from their boards as you see leadership emerge. I like that system. You see who shows up. You see who gets things done. That also gets that age diversity issue, which I think is a real problem with boards. A lot of boards struggle to get those younger board members. It’s two things. The younger board members don’t have awareness around the opportunity, and I think they are intimidated by it as well. The YP board is a good piece for that.
 Board ambassadors. That could be more on the emeritus side. Folks who have been on the board for a while, who are no longer in an active role but are still really important connectors in the community, and you want to keep them involved. That is one way to think about it. Perhaps you have a different thought on that term. I’m curious what you’re thinking.
 Hugh: I love that. That’s a vacuum in my thinking. We do see a lot of old white guys. We see way too much of that. I have changed the symphony board so far. The 11 days I’m in, it’s already a different board. I had a good board to build on, so I’m not saying it was bad before. We are adding some of those elements of diversity.
 Russell, we have about three minutes for a short question before we go into our sponsor message and give Jeb his last word.
 Russell: We’re talking about bringing youth in. I like the idea of what I call reverse mentoring, where there is this knowledge exchange between generations. I went to a United Veterans Committee Colorado meeting this morning. Lots of gray hair. Yes, the brown guys get gray hair, too. This whole notion of diversity, I had a marvelous week last week helping Carol Carter with GlobalMinded at Be the Solution conference here in Denver. The whole event was about diversity and inclusion. If people don’t feel like they are a part of something, they won’t participate. That is a serious topic. We have covered that. It might be time for us to do another diversity and inclusion panel, Hugh. That is very important.
 I am curious as to, and you have been on several boards, what has the composition of your board looked like? What did you need to do to help that along, or make any adjustments to make sure you had the bandwidth of ideas and energy?
 Jeb: Each board has been unique in this aspect. The Speakeasy was founded by a bunch of white guys. We had to be intentional about diversifying the member base. People who were members of the co-working space, along with the board. Not in a check the box way, but in a legitimate, how do we get real perspectives into this? How do we get women into this? I am proud of where the board is now. It’s had three female executive directors in a row. It’s had a diverse board consistently.
 In terms of the board I’m working with now, it’s diverse as well. There is a lot of opportunity to improve here. It’s tricky because I think that there aren’t natural pathways for people in different demographics to explore board service. I think this is a real challenge, especially in certain populations in Indianapolis. There is no awareness around it whatsoever. We have a three-phase road map: board management, which is the logistical side of it; board engagement, which gets into all the things we talked about in terms of nudging behavior to people saying what they said they will do; and board talent, really trying to give a tool to boards to get that talent, a matrix to see what diversity they have now, what skills they have now. And a marketplace for them to connect with people. We market that marketplace to populations that don’t currently think of board service. That is where we are taking the product.
 This speaks to my desire to create more opportunity for others. I feel like this system is rigged. There is an opportunity to use technology and marketing and content to bring others into it. A board role can be transformative in the life of a person. It can broaden their network and connections. It can open doors that wouldn’t have been opened. It can lead to careers and opportunities that were not available to them before that role. To bring more of those roles to people of different backgrounds, not just of my background, but all kinds of backgrounds. I am a privileged person. I grew up with parents who volunteered with nonprofits. This is the culture I came from. It’s what I know. To give this experience to others is where we see the company going.
 Hugh: Thank you on behalf of nonprofits for doing this. This work is so important. We will be having more conversations. Russell, I can smell some cross-support here, maybe more conversations about our alignment. We have things and you have things that would be better together.
 *Sponsored by Wordsprint*
 Jeb, give us the top traits of an effective board member. What thought do you want to leave us with? Then Russell will close us out.
 Jeb: The seven things I discussed earlier: 1) A board member is prepared for meetings. 2) They are showing up. 3) They are following through. 4) They’re volunteering in the organization. 5) They’re advocating on behalf of the organization. That ambassador piece. 6) They’re helping with fundraising. 7) They’re donating, writing a check themselves. Those are the seven dimensions that we look at to measure in our product.
 What was the other question?
 Hugh: What tip do you have for people?
 Jeb: I think my #1 tip to board leaders is if you are not comfortable having hard conversations, whether it’s the difficult or crucial conversations, take some time to do some training. Learn how to have those conversations in a way that is productive. I believe the difference between a good and a great organization is a lot of hard conversations. That skillset is important to build as a leader.
 Russell: Jeb Banner, it’s been a remarkable hour. Thank you so much for coming to share your wisdom with us.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 16 Jun 2019 22:55:38 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/78970ddc-b329-11eb-9f0f-7315aa4a5645/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Founder of Boardable Shares Insights on Engaging Board Members</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Tips to Becoming an Exceptional Board Member with Jeb Banner
 As the CEO and a Founder of Boardable, Jeb Banner is passionate about community nonprofits, entrepreneurship, and more. He also founded SmallBox, a creative agency for mission-driven organizations, and is co-founder of The Speak Easy and founder of Musical Family Tree, both 501(c)(3) nonprofits.
  
 Interview Transcript
 Jeb Banner: More and more. I was running another business at the time, which worked mostly with nonprofits called SmallBox, a creative agency here in Indy. As we raised some money and as the business turned off, I shifted from SmallBox to Boardable in the course of 2017. I went full-time in 2018. My wife actually took over the agency and runs that now. We are all in the same building in Indianapolis here in the old library. We still get to work together, but different floors.
 Hugh Ballou: Awesome. Jeb, we write a plan, set some goals, and we give it to the board. It’s all a done deal. The board embraces it. What is your experience with boards?
 Jeb: Boards are busy. Boards are over-committed. Board members are often serving on multiple boards. They are spread thin. This is one of the challenges we want to solve in the product, eventually building out a talent marketplace on Boardable’s platform to give boards access to a wider pool of talent. This is a real challenge. These great people who serve on boards often get called to serve on other boards. When they show up, they’re often reading the material at the Stop sign, on the drive in, in the parking lot, during the meeting. They’re not always prepared. Board members, as much as they really want to give everything they can, they don’t really have the time to do it because they’re spread so thin. Nonprofits struggle to hold board members accountable because they don’t feel comfortable asking them to follow through in a way they should sometimes, or really do the role they need to do in the organization because they’re volunteers. It’s hard to make demands of a volunteer. A lot of what we’re trying to do is build into the product ways for those board members to be nudged toward the right behaviors.
 Hugh: Well, this is fascinating. Russell, you worked with a nonprofit Indian reservation for many years. Are you hearing some things jump out about boards that you’d like to probe?
 Russell Dennis: Communication is probably the biggest challenge that board leaders and boards have. We had the challenge up there where I was working of geography working against us. Our board members were scattered over an area that was about the size of Rhode Island and Connecticut combined in a county called Aroostook. Our council members, the government body, or board if you will, would travel from long distances, 60-65 miles some of them, to attend the meeting. We had bi-weekly meetings. In northern Maine, weather is an issue. Being able to communicate is pretty tough. There is more technology available for that. There is challenges in conducting board meetings and staying in touch. Yes, I agree that getting things done can be tough. It can be pretty tricky.
 A lot of times, when folks like you, entrepreneurs and consultants, people have problems that drive them bananas, that keep them awake. What were some of the key things that were driving you crazy that you thought you had to fix, that motivated you and inspired you to develop a platform to help board members operate an organization more smoothly?
 Jeb: I think the #1 thing is communication. What you just said there is true. Keeping up that communication between meetings. Doing it in a way that meets people where they are. Everybody has their own style. Some people like to text, some like to email, and some like phone calls. You have people at different technology levels, too. The boards I was running had less of that challenge. Boards I sit on now, that is one of the challenges they have.
 The #1 headache I experienced as a board chair was centralizing everything. So much was going into my inbox, like the bylaws would be attached to an email from two years ago. Where was the bylaws? There is no central repository. If somebody rolled off the board, their inbox rolled off the board with them. All that communication, all those documents they may have been working on just vanishes. That is a real problem with boards. There is no continuity if you are using those kinds of tools. They are not built for that. They are built for immediacy. That centralization was pain point #1.
 After that comes the communication pain point. Having a place where everything flows. If you start a discussion in Boardable, it goes into their inbox and phones. It responds, and it goes back in. It’s always back in the system. That is a real headache.
 The third thing we thought about was it has to be super easy to use. It has to be simple. If you give a board member a tool they can’t use, if they can’t log in, if they can’t make sense of it, it’s worthless. It can do all the things in the world, but it’s worthless. As we have gotten into it further, we think about it a lot more around engagement. We have different dimensions of engagement we think about as well. We can chat about that later.
 The initial problems were centralization, communication, and simplification.
 Hugh: Boardable.com. That’s quite an impressive site. We have a couple folks I want to shout out to. Don Ward, who is in Orlando, Florida. He is the president of the CEO clubs in central Florida. Has groups that talk about leadership, business development, and nonprofits. He said, “Board members need to be trained. They think their input and power is far more than it was ever supposed to be. What if…” How would you respond to that, Jeb?
 Jeb: I think setting and managing expectations with a board member, and that is part of that training, around what their role and responsibility is on the board. Different boards have different levels of responsibility to the organization. Some boards really do have a high level. Fiduciary responsibility in most cases. There are real consequences to their decisions. They often don’t understand that. They don’t understand they are playing with fire, if you will. This is not a practice. Other boards are more advisory, where they are just giving input. Defining that role, and saying to the board member, “Hey, this is what we expect of you. This is your lane.” And being clear about that up front through board training, onboarding, mentorship—giving them a mentor to work with on the board—is a missed opportunity. Based on our research, two thirds to three fourths fail to do any onboarding or training. Then you have a board member that doesn’t know what is expected of them, so they run wild. I agree with that comment. I think board members, not maliciously, they don’t just know their role, so they do what they think they need to do.
 Hugh: You’re so right. Without clear expectations, leaders are actually setting up conflict. People don’t know where to- They can’t color inside the lines because they don’t know where the lines are.
 Jeb: That’s right. I think a lot of times, leaders are timid about this. They are uncomfortable having that conversation. They are uncomfortable telling that powerful donor that has joined the board, “Don’t do this.” They have trouble giving them those lines because they are writing checks in some cases, or they are influential. They struggle with that accountability and that clarity.
 Hugh: That’s a big deal. I hear leaders say, “I can’t correct them because they are volunteers. They’re giving their time.” I served megachurches for 40 years. I had plenty of opportunities to fire volunteers. Sometimes they were happy about it. Most of the time, they were happy about it because they knew it wasn’t a good fit. Actually, I got to a place where we eliminated the word “volunteer” because a lot of the language, like “nonprofit,” which is a lie, and “volunteer,” which is dumbing down, some of the language we use actually contributes to the lower functioning. In the church, we created members of the ministry. It was a leadership position. In my symphony, I am the president of the symphony here, we are on the road to creating a servant leader model, where people have a track, and they lead in the model here. There is a whole lot of things that we set up that we unintentionally set up problems. Talk about this- There is a fear of conflict. People want to step away from it, which fosters it. Making course corrections doesn’t mean you have to tell people they are wrong. Talk about that interaction. That is a big deal, I think.
 Jeb: I often think- Are you familiar with Patrick Lencioni, the author?
 Hugh: Five Dysfunctions…
 Jeb: Five Dysfunctions of a Team. You look at that pyramid. You have to have that trust in order to have conflict, which gets into commitment, which leads to accountability to reinforce it, which outputs results. To have that alignment there, you have to start with trust. Making sure that board member is part- Trust is being part of a team, feeling like they are safe to step up. They can talk about their concerns. They feel they are in a safe space to speak their mind. It’s very hard to engender that without some of that teambuilding work that you need to do with boards. There is some socialization to that. I use a design thinking framework when I work with boards to do small group activities to push conversations and connections so that people feel like they know each other and there is a foundation of trust so they can start to move in that conflict. Conflict is critical. You need to have conflict on a board. Healthy, productive conflict. Not political drama-based conflict, but real conflict where people really care about things.
 Hugh: it’s a sign of energy, isn’t it?
 Jeb: It’s a sign of life. If you don’t have it, you have a problem. If everybody is sitting there going, “Yeah, yeah, yeah,” you have a dysfunctional board. It may not look like it, but it’s dysfunctional.
 Hugh: The only place I have seen where there is no conflict is a cemetery.
 Jeb: There is conflict in the earth between the body and the ground, I’ll tell you that much.
 Hugh: Oh man. Another watching on Facebook is Don Green, who is in Wise, Virginia. Don Green is the executive director of a nonprofit called The Napoleon Hill Foundation. Don is sending his thank you because this is useful information.
 Russell, do you want to weigh in on this leader making course corrections? I think this is a bigger topic than most people realize.
 Russell: Running a nonprofit or an organization is just like flying a plane. When you get into a plane, your pilot takes off, and they are flying along. They are off course the vast majority of the time. They spend the whole time course-correcting. You know where you’re leaving from, and you know where you’re going, but you make a lot of adjustments along the way. Running an organization is a lot like that. That is the thing.
 I had somebody say to me one time. I was attending a church many years ago back home. These guys are all nice. One of the deacons said, “If you like everybody you’ve met here, you haven’t been to enough services.” There is going to be that conflict from time to time. It’s important to be able to come back together at the end of that day and agree on the common goal. How you get there could be an interesting dynamic. If everybody was the same, people would get bored and walk away. That dynamic tension is what makes the work exciting.
 Jeb: Absolutely.
 Hugh: You don’t want a bunch of yes people, do you?
 Russell: No, it would be very dull.
 Hugh: Also, we create a culture that is the opposite, where people are afraid of standing out and saying their mind. The real meeting happens in the parking lot. “So yeah, I knew what was going on in there, but here is what I think.” Triangling going on.
 Jeb, let’s forecast. What does a really great board look like? We were talking about the exceptional board member. Either the board as a whole or a board member. Tell us what that looks like from your perspective.
 Jeb: I think there are a few dimensions to this. You have the composition of the board itself. The board should be somewhat reflective, not entirely one-to-one of the people it’s serving, but somewhat reflective so there is an empathetic connection to the service being provided. Then I think there should be diversity of age, race, gender. It needs to bring in different perspectives. I don’t have an exact formula for that, but a healthy board has a level of diversity there.
 Getting into the roles of the board. You look at that. We need someone who has a legal background, depending on the organization, a finance background, a marketing background. It’s important to have that composition as well.
 Then you look at the actual activity of the board. That’s where I think about engagement. I think about seven dimensions of engagement.
 Preparation for a board meeting. Are they preparing? Are they reading the materials?
 Are they showing up to the meetings?
 Are they following through on what they said they would do?
 Are they volunteering, getting involved in the organization so they feel the impact of the work?
 Are they advocating on behalf of the organization?
 Are they fundraising? Helping raise money.
 Are they donating? Writing the checks.
 Looking across those seven dimensions, and then looking at those other areas, I think that then you need leadership. That is the last ingredient. To make sure you have that foundation of safety and trust for conflict, which leads to a healthy dialogue and the ability of that board to really, truly govern the organization.
 Russell: Our friend Dr. David Gruder develops a lot of tools around that for people to talk to one another. There are some other resources out there like Difficult Conversations by Douglas Stone and Bruce Patten. It’s important to be able to do that. What it boils down to is being genuine and authentic. You’re communicating in respectable ways. What are some of the tools you have provided to help board members do that in organizations you work with?
 Jeb: I’m familiar with Crucial Conversations. Is that a similar framework to what you’re talking about?
 Russell: Yes, they are different.
 Jeb: Crucial Conversations is wonderful training. I have done that a couple times. I think that’s great training. It’s a little extensive for a full board to go through. In my experience, I have a background in design thinking. It’s a framework that people-centered. It’s empathy-based. It’s all about starting with the problem. Trying to create a consensus around what the problem is, not what the solution is. There is a lot of different exercises that come from that, different ways that you can facilitate whole and small group exercises. You can do research.
 There is a whole toolkit that my previous company SmallBox used in our work with nonprofits and boards. For instance, organizational values, which is a part of what the board needs to do. They need to be a part of that values conversation. Mission, vision, those conversations as well. Then you get into strategic planning. There are tools around that from the design thinking background that are helpful for that.
 Working with the United Way board here in town, we recently redesigned their entire board governance approach. It started with working in small groups to bring in ideas and socialize ideas with the larger board to then refine those, and take those back to leadership, and put them into a plan. I follow that approach, which is more organic. I do think there is good tools out there. My background and training is more in that design thinking framework, which is more custom to the situation.
 Russell: Custom solution is different. Everyone is different. Everyone on the board is different. What are some challenges in making a board run efficiently that you’ve seen across various types of organizations, some of the universal ones?
 Jeb: Meetings. Time management. Managing the agenda, managing the conversations, making sure that people are staying on topic. You don’t have people grandstanding. Every board has someone who loves to hear themselves talk. There have been times where it’s been me. I love to hear myself talk. But having the chair or the executive director, it’s best when it’s the chair, be an active facilitator and have some facilitation training, so they learn how to bring in others, make sure everyone has that safe space to be heard. I think that’s critical in a productive board experience. Everything about the board is that meeting. Like you said, the parking lot conversations, that starts to happen a lot when the dysfunction of that meeting deepens. All of that stuff ripples out. You have phone calls and emails. It cascades when that meeting is ineffective.
 Hugh: I’m a conductor. Especially the better they are, every ensemble rehearses for every performance. We don’t rehearse. Some of the stuff you’re talking about is how we get better at what we do. In a sense, rehearsals, I’d like to share with you sometime later. Meetings are the #1 killer of teams. I have a whole piece that says the agenda is the killer of productivity. Agendas don’t use agendas for rehearsals; we use deliverables. We can accomplish. Goals for the session. We focus on outcomes. That is a reframing. I see everything as a rehearsal. I’m sorry.
 Jeb: Sure, I can relate to that.
 Hugh: There are so many things you’ve hit on that are big-deal things that we have to be selective here. I want to go back to this board governance. Russell, he threw a zinger in there that had fire in the name. Did you hear that? About governance and board members.
 Jeb: Playing with fire.
 Russell: Playing with fire, yeah.
 Hugh: Expand on that a little bit. Not having ONC insurance, DNC insurance, Arizona missions not having-
 Russell: Directors and offices liability insurance policies. It’s critical to protect yourself and to keep the structures separate. Compliance is a big deal when it comes to running these organizations. There is a lot of documentation that is required. Have you found that boards warm up to the challenge of keeping all of that in order?
 Jeb: Absolutely. I just recently joined a board. A week later, the board resigned, not because I joined the board, but because of issues in the organization. I was the last board member standing. This was an experience. Part of it was because the insurance had not been taken care of. There were other issues and lapse that were not being brought to the board’s attention. It was a two-way street. The leadership in the organization wasn’t doing its job, but neither was the board. The board needs to push to get clarity on those things. Part of why that happened is they did push. It was a bit of a mess.
 I found myself moving into a chair role when I expected to be a board member, and having to help the organization, and still now, get back up on its feet. It’s been a crash course in a lot of the things we’re talking about. When I’m talking about playing with fire, I am speaking from experience. That’s fire.
 You’re talking about vehicle insurance and transporting kids. You have to think about that stuff. The board is on the hook. The buck stops with the board. The board is the boss. I don’t think board members really get that when they sign up. I don’t think they really get that. I think they would take their jobs more seriously if they understood the consequences of not doing their jobs. I think that’s a real failure in leadership because they’re too timid about that conversation.
 Russell: That baptism by fire when I worked with the Micmac nation is the same baptism by fire you’re talking about. In terms of documentation, there are so many things that have to be kept in one place. Does your platform help with that? Does it help to deal with governing documents and creating a space where people can collaborate and have these conversations? That is another common problem. I have my favorite tools I use to work with. I have different clients who like different tools, some of which I’m not crazy about. It’s about getting things done, so I have learned to use a number of different things. That’s not always conducive to good communication and keeping things working. Talk about if you could address the importance of organizing all of your compliance documents and processes.
 Jeb: That is what Boardable does. Thanks for the pitch there. The problem that we see with a lot of boards is that nothing is one place. When a new board member rolls on, they’re forwarding them emails. The mess grows and expands. Having all documents, everything that you’re doing in one place so that no matter what, you’ve got it right here on the app. You have your directory, your documents. You can call someone from here. You have your groups, agendas, minutes, and voting, everything you need in one place, your notifications, tasks, follow-up items. And you integrate with all those other tools. That is the key here. You have to integrate with Google Docs and Dropbox and Microsoft and calendars and emails because people won’t stop using those tools. They shouldn’t. They work. We have to meet them where they are. A lot of what we focus on is accepting the board experience as it is and coming alongside and bringing value and augmenting what they’re doing.
 Hugh: What you don’t know is the guy who comes knocking at the door from the IRS was Russell. He knows about compliance. He wants to see your corporate record book. I find many, if any, executives who understand what the function of the record book is and what should be in there. Is that part of your program as well?
 Jeb: Yes, it automatically organizes all those documents into folders. You can lock and control them depending on committee access. All those meetings are automatically archived historically. Who was in attendance? Who wasn’t? You create a report that shows everything that happened. When the IRS does knock at the door, you can show them exactly what you did, how you voted. There is the agenda from that meeting, whatever you need to show them. Fortunately, I have not been audited yet. Hopefully that doesn’t happen here soon. But when Russell does knock at my door, I’m confident at least with the organizations I’m involved with and our customers they’ll be ready.
 Hugh: You’re audit-ready.
 Jeb: I hope so. I’ll ask my CFO and see if he has the answers.
 Hugh: Russell is on a good track here with compliance. I do think most are blind to this. That’s why you got us on here. This sounds like valuable stuff, doesn’t it, Russ?
 Russell: It is. As far as having processes, a lot of the problems revolve around people using a different language in addition the tools they think differently. There are certain things that have to be in place. if you can create a way where people have that common understanding and can access stuff. Brendan Burchard talks about creating different products, courses, approaching consulting, and he talks about tools. One of the things he says is if it’s not easy to access, understand, and use, people aren’t going to bother with it. Meetings get complicated. A tool like that, Hugh’s publication on conducting a successful meeting, because it really breaks things down and makes it manageable.
 Jeb: Absolutely. If you can’t use the tool, if you can’t log in, if it’s frustrating or confusing, give it 10, 15, maybe 30 seconds, and at that point, you are going back to what you know. This is where things get hard. The organization often caters to the board. They want the board to be taken care of. If the board says this isn’t working for me, whatever it is, they will print out the packet. They will do whatever they need to do to help the board. It’s good and bad. It’s good to take care of your board. The board needs that information. I think it’s also good sometimes that organization needs to push the board more than they do. Too often, they cater and capitulate to the board instead of pushing the board to do best practices in terms of how they want to communicate. They have to give them tools that are easy to use. That is super critical.
 Hugh: Jeb, let’s take a case study. Is that okay? A real, live situation. I am the president of the board, the board chair, of the Lynchburg Symphony. We have 24 board members. A third rotate each year. It’s a three-year gig. We have a moving and family situation, so we have 10 new members coming in. A week and a half from now, we are doing our strategy, some people would call it a retreat, but we are going to charge. We are not retreating. It’s a work session, which is different from a board meeting. We have a planning session. I have highly skilled board members that are committee chairs of development, finance, events, and concert programs. We are mapping the future. Our proprietary strategy is called a solution map. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there? it’s the basic rubric of a strategic plan, but more nonprofit-friendly.
 We are doing our planning session. I already met with all the chairs and the new conductor. We are starting a new era with a new conductor. I am succeeding a president who put a lot of systems in place. I am inheriting a sound board and a sound organization, financially and structurally, and we are moving it up. What do you think is the most important things that I should do with incoming board members as we strategize on our work and integrating our work together as we plan for the next five years, and specifically the next year?
 Jeb: I think that the onboarding piece is critical. We talked about that earlier. Making sure they know what is expected of them and what their role is. I think that’s important. Assigning them a board mentor is important as well if that is something you can do. That can give them navigational help on a peer level. The third thing is getting them a committee assignment as soon as possible. They need to feel like they have a role on the board. The board meeting, they will feel they are observers for a while. They may ask some questions, but they may not feel they have a really defined role. That onboarding, setting roles and responsibilities, getting them a mentor, getting them on a committee are three initial things you can do that will increase their engagement and make them feel like they are a part of something. That is the initial phase.
 Hugh: Russell, I did all of those.
 Jeb: Good job!
 Russell: Yes, you did. Building a board book. When people go through our leadership symposium, it’s a board book. It lays out a big-picture overview of some things you do. He has other materials he’s built that could actually take leaders through a reflective process. Having what we call a board book has the information that people need. Setting up some training around that and having them go through that, as well as having a mentor, is great. As you are bringing somebody on board, you want to find out what lights their fire. What is something they just can’t wait to get out of bed to do? They are going to have some ownership around that. They will have ideas around that. Good leaders build better leaders. You set the parameters for success, and you turn them loose and let them run with it.
 Jeb: That’s a great point. Tapping into what they’re passionate about is critical. That is often a conversation before they join the board, but it can be an ongoing conversation of what is the why. What is the why here? There has to be some alignment between their why and the organization’s why. If that is missing, they’re not going to be engaged. There will be misalignment. That leads to dysfunction, which can be challenging.
 Hugh: I like that word, “dysfunction.”
 Russell: Especially if they are effective and highly visible, everyone accepts Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny is running after them to get them on their board of directors. That’s fine if they have the bandwidth to do it. What I have seen on occasion is they are not clear with what they want to do or accomplish. They’re not sure what they want from the board members. Typically, they find people who they love and adore, who they’re good friends with, who support them. They don’t always take that inventory of exactly what they need, and can’t always define that commitment. What are some of the things you have seen? How have you been able to address those types of issues?
 Jeb: In terms of aligning their commitment?
 Russell: And crafting a set of expectations.
 Jeb: To be honest, I haven’t done that as much as I should have. The previous time, I was chairing two nonprofits I co-founded, and they were like start-ups. It was a bootstraps situation, where the founders became the board members. We added from there. With the board I am rejuvenating right now, we are in triage mode. We are trying to get up and running.
 With the larger board I serve on, the United Way board, they are much more intentional about this experience. It’s been good to watch from that perspective. I have a financial commitment to the board I’m making, which is important. A lot of boards have that. The more mature and functional board, which this one certainly is, they know what they’re doing, they’re intentional. They have a full-time administrator working with the board. There are clear commitments. I sign things every year. They talk about it a lot. They have one-on-one sessions with me every year to talk about my giving, where I’m going with my life. How is United Way going to be a part of that? I have seen that be effective.
 I see it more with my customers, but I am speaking from my own experience. I have been more on the start-up side of boards. When a board is starting up, the start-up phase is different. You have the start-up, the growth, and the cruise. The cruise control one is where United Way is. It’s healthy, big, knows what it’s doing. Different dynamics, different needs. It changes as the board changes.
 Russell: A lot of tools we put together here at SynerVision address organizations at different stages. What I love about the model Hugh has created is it’s perfect for somebody who is starting. If you can structure everything right, which isn’t always the case, you’re going to have fewer problems later.
 Hugh: Thank you for highlighting that. What I see, Jeb, is we do the people part of this. What’s missing is all the stuff you highlighted. The plethora of emails that is a cancer. I remember when we didn’t have email, when we didn’t have the Internet, we didn’t have cell phones or texting. We keep adding things, but we never take anything away. People are just bombarded. Sometimes they don’t read anything.
 You’ve covered so many important topics here. Russell, you never saw this happen, but I have seen this happen. Board members come unprepared to a meeting.
 Russell: That happens?
 Jeb: I’ve never seen that happen.
 Russell: When did that start?
 Jeb: Shocking.
 Hugh: They’re busy people. They leave a board meeting and get sucked into the vortex of life. The next thing they know, there is another meeting coming up at 6:00. What was I supposed to do? It’s the engagement piece that keeps people tuned in between meetings. One of my missions in meetings is we teach people that we don’t work at meetings, we work in between meetings. We check in. it’s an accountability system. A planning session is different. A regular board meeting, we report on what we’ve done, and we define what we’re going to do and look for those points of collaboration and collision that we want to work on. Speak about those topics.
 Jeb: You’re totally right. It’s the in-between that is so important. Board members think of their board services as simply the meeting. Here I am, I’m in the meeting. There are some boards where that is truly their role. That goes back to defining roles and responsibilities. If all they are doing is being advisory, or simply sitting there to listen and decide, that is one thing. A healthy board has projects and activities running in between meetings. To do that, there is a lot of management. You have to set that expectation up front of what kind of hours you are committing a month when you join this board. Very few boards have that conversation. They talk about the board meetings. They talk maybe about committees. Talking about the hours you will commit and spend. This is two or three hours a week, we expect you to come in for a meeting, etc. We redesigned the committees at United Way, and it has been a fascinating experience. We are moving more toward work groups. More ad hoc. Is this getting you excited?
 Hugh: Oh yeah. There is the old adage that committees are a place where good ideas go to die.
 Jeb: I respect that committees are still the primary vehicle for a lot of organizations and our customers. I think there are healthy committees. The idea of being more ad hoc subject matter experts that come together as needed around a problem to solve that problem. Those are being formed as needed. During board meetings, between board meetings. They are reporting back. You have a platform, whether it’s Boardable or something else, where they are able to collaborate, share content documents. That creates visibility to others in the organization so that work is not entirely happening in a silo. That makes the work more effective. It multiplies that work. That move is a good one. It gives people something to do. I hate sitting in a committee meeting and feeling like I have nothing to do with what’s being talked about. I want to feel like I have some skin in the game.
 Hugh: Absolutely. Russell, this is music to our ears, isn’t it?
 Russell: This is great stuff. Solution sessions are great because you got to get in there, got to get it done. You don’t have time to goof around. Having people with the right information. Understanding the roles and how everybody fits is communication. That is where things slip through the cracks, when somebody says, “I thought you were going to take care of that.” “Didn’t we agree you would?” You end up in this back and forth. You definitely want to stay out of that. You want to stay out of finger-pointing as well. What you’re doing is too important. Finger-pointing solves no problems. It keeps you away from course-correcting.
 Hugh: I love it. My meetings always end with an action plan. Who is going to do it? What is the action? To do what? Who is the champion? What is the deadline? It ends up with a communication board. What is the specific message somebody that is not here needs to know? Who was going to tell them? We don’t think of those things. We sit around and talk about things to do. Everyone assumes the facilitator will do them.
 Man, it’s been a lot of very helpful content here. What are board ambassadors? I want to ask you two questions. What are board ambassadors? There are groups, governance and financial oversight, which is your board of directors. The symphony has an advisory council. They are just what you said. We ask their advice. And we have advisors at large, people we call from time to time to give us advice. Those are the three sets of people we have connected. But the board of directors is fitting in to the role you are talking about, the group that is responsible for this organization. Are there other entities, besides committees or work groups or project teams, you find are helpful?
 Jeb: You have YP boards. They are good to create a feeder system for the main board. Young professional boards. They are that group of younger people in their career, in their 20s often, who are rising in their careers. We see that happening more and more with nonprofits. They have YP boards. They can pick from their boards as you see leadership emerge. I like that system. You see who shows up. You see who gets things done. That also gets that age diversity issue, which I think is a real problem with boards. A lot of boards struggle to get those younger board members. It’s two things. The younger board members don’t have awareness around the opportunity, and I think they are intimidated by it as well. The YP board is a good piece for that.
 Board ambassadors. That could be more on the emeritus side. Folks who have been on the board for a while, who are no longer in an active role but are still really important connectors in the community, and you want to keep them involved. That is one way to think about it. Perhaps you have a different thought on that term. I’m curious what you’re thinking.
 Hugh: I love that. That’s a vacuum in my thinking. We do see a lot of old white guys. We see way too much of that. I have changed the symphony board so far. The 11 days I’m in, it’s already a different board. I had a good board to build on, so I’m not saying it was bad before. We are adding some of those elements of diversity.
 Russell, we have about three minutes for a short question before we go into our sponsor message and give Jeb his last word.
 Russell: We’re talking about bringing youth in. I like the idea of what I call reverse mentoring, where there is this knowledge exchange between generations. I went to a United Veterans Committee Colorado meeting this morning. Lots of gray hair. Yes, the brown guys get gray hair, too. This whole notion of diversity, I had a marvelous week last week helping Carol Carter with GlobalMinded at Be the Solution conference here in Denver. The whole event was about diversity and inclusion. If people don’t feel like they are a part of something, they won’t participate. That is a serious topic. We have covered that. It might be time for us to do another diversity and inclusion panel, Hugh. That is very important.
 I am curious as to, and you have been on several boards, what has the composition of your board looked like? What did you need to do to help that along, or make any adjustments to make sure you had the bandwidth of ideas and energy?
 Jeb: Each board has been unique in this aspect. The Speakeasy was founded by a bunch of white guys. We had to be intentional about diversifying the member base. People who were members of the co-working space, along with the board. Not in a check the box way, but in a legitimate, how do we get real perspectives into this? How do we get women into this? I am proud of where the board is now. It’s had three female executive directors in a row. It’s had a diverse board consistently.
 In terms of the board I’m working with now, it’s diverse as well. There is a lot of opportunity to improve here. It’s tricky because I think that there aren’t natural pathways for people in different demographics to explore board service. I think this is a real challenge, especially in certain populations in Indianapolis. There is no awareness around it whatsoever. We have a three-phase road map: board management, which is the logistical side of it; board engagement, which gets into all the things we talked about in terms of nudging behavior to people saying what they said they will do; and board talent, really trying to give a tool to boards to get that talent, a matrix to see what diversity they have now, what skills they have now. And a marketplace for them to connect with people. We market that marketplace to populations that don’t currently think of board service. That is where we are taking the product.
 This speaks to my desire to create more opportunity for others. I feel like this system is rigged. There is an opportunity to use technology and marketing and content to bring others into it. A board role can be transformative in the life of a person. It can broaden their network and connections. It can open doors that wouldn’t have been opened. It can lead to careers and opportunities that were not available to them before that role. To bring more of those roles to people of different backgrounds, not just of my background, but all kinds of backgrounds. I am a privileged person. I grew up with parents who volunteered with nonprofits. This is the culture I came from. It’s what I know. To give this experience to others is where we see the company going.
 Hugh: Thank you on behalf of nonprofits for doing this. This work is so important. We will be having more conversations. Russell, I can smell some cross-support here, maybe more conversations about our alignment. We have things and you have things that would be better together.
 *Sponsored by Wordsprint*
 Jeb, give us the top traits of an effective board member. What thought do you want to leave us with? Then Russell will close us out.
 Jeb: The seven things I discussed earlier: 1) A board member is prepared for meetings. 2) They are showing up. 3) They are following through. 4) They’re volunteering in the organization. 5) They’re advocating on behalf of the organization. That ambassador piece. 6) They’re helping with fundraising. 7) They’re donating, writing a check themselves. Those are the seven dimensions that we look at to measure in our product.
 What was the other question?
 Hugh: What tip do you have for people?
 Jeb: I think my #1 tip to board leaders is if you are not comfortable having hard conversations, whether it’s the difficult or crucial conversations, take some time to do some training. Learn how to have those conversations in a way that is productive. I believe the difference between a good and a great organization is a lot of hard conversations. That skillset is important to build as a leader.
 Russell: Jeb Banner, it’s been a remarkable hour. Thank you so much for coming to share your wisdom with us.
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Tips to Becoming an Exceptional Board Member with Jeb Banner</strong></h1> <p>As the CEO and a Founder of Boardable, <strong>Jeb Banner</strong> is passionate about community nonprofits, entrepreneurship, and more. He also founded SmallBox, a creative agency for mission-driven organizations, and is co-founder of The Speak Easy and founder of Musical Family Tree, both 501(c)(3) nonprofits.</p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Jeb Banner:</strong> More and more. I was running another business at the time, which worked mostly with nonprofits called SmallBox, a creative agency here in Indy. As we raised some money and as the business turned off, I shifted from SmallBox to Boardable in the course of 2017. I went full-time in 2018. My wife actually took over the agency and runs that now. We are all in the same building in Indianapolis here in the old library. We still get to work together, but different floors.</p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Awesome. Jeb, we write a plan, set some goals, and we give it to the board. It’s all a done deal. The board embraces it. What is your experience with boards?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> Boards are busy. Boards are over-committed. Board members are often serving on multiple boards. They are spread thin. This is one of the challenges we want to solve in the product, eventually building out a talent marketplace on Boardable’s platform to give boards access to a wider pool of talent. This is a real challenge. These great people who serve on boards often get called to serve on other boards. When they show up, they’re often reading the material at the Stop sign, on the drive in, in the parking lot, during the meeting. They’re not always prepared. Board members, as much as they really want to give everything they can, they don’t really have the time to do it because they’re spread so thin. Nonprofits struggle to hold board members accountable because they don’t feel comfortable asking them to follow through in a way they should sometimes, or really do the role they need to do in the organization because they’re volunteers. It’s hard to make demands of a volunteer. A lot of what we’re trying to do is build into the product ways for those board members to be nudged toward the right behaviors.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Well, this is fascinating. Russell, you worked with a nonprofit Indian reservation for many years. Are you hearing some things jump out about boards that you’d like to probe?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Communication is probably the biggest challenge that board leaders and boards have. We had the challenge up there where I was working of geography working against us. Our board members were scattered over an area that was about the size of Rhode Island and Connecticut combined in a county called Aroostook. Our council members, the government body, or board if you will, would travel from long distances, 60-65 miles some of them, to attend the meeting. We had bi-weekly meetings. In northern Maine, weather is an issue. Being able to communicate is pretty tough. There is more technology available for that. There is challenges in conducting board meetings and staying in touch. Yes, I agree that getting things done can be tough. It can be pretty tricky.</p> <p>A lot of times, when folks like you, entrepreneurs and consultants, people have problems that drive them bananas, that keep them awake. What were some of the key things that were driving you crazy that you thought you had to fix, that motivated you and inspired you to develop a platform to help board members operate an organization more smoothly?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> I think the #1 thing is communication. What you just said there is true. Keeping up that communication between meetings. Doing it in a way that meets people where they are. Everybody has their own style. Some people like to text, some like to email, and some like phone calls. You have people at different technology levels, too. The boards I was running had less of that challenge. Boards I sit on now, that is one of the challenges they have.</p> <p>The #1 headache I experienced as a board chair was centralizing everything. So much was going into my inbox, like the bylaws would be attached to an email from two years ago. Where was the bylaws? There is no central repository. If somebody rolled off the board, their inbox rolled off the board with them. All that communication, all those documents they may have been working on just vanishes. That is a real problem with boards. There is no continuity if you are using those kinds of tools. They are not built for that. They are built for immediacy. That centralization was pain point #1.</p> <p>After that comes the communication pain point. Having a place where everything flows. If you start a discussion in Boardable, it goes into their inbox and phones. It responds, and it goes back in. It’s always back in the system. That is a real headache.</p> <p>The third thing we thought about was it has to be super easy to use. It has to be simple. If you give a board member a tool they can’t use, if they can’t log in, if they can’t make sense of it, it’s worthless. It can do all the things in the world, but it’s worthless. As we have gotten into it further, we think about it a lot more around engagement. We have different dimensions of engagement we think about as well. We can chat about that later.</p> <p>The initial problems were centralization, communication, and simplification.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Boardable.com. That’s quite an impressive site. We have a couple folks I want to shout out to. Don Ward, who is in Orlando, Florida. He is the president of the CEO clubs in central Florida. Has groups that talk about leadership, business development, and nonprofits. He said, “Board members need to be trained. They think their input and power is far more than it was ever supposed to be. What if…” How would you respond to that, Jeb?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> I think setting and managing expectations with a board member, and that is part of that training, around what their role and responsibility is on the board. Different boards have different levels of responsibility to the organization. Some boards really do have a high level. Fiduciary responsibility in most cases. There are real consequences to their decisions. They often don’t understand that. They don’t understand they are playing with fire, if you will. This is not a practice. Other boards are more advisory, where they are just giving input. Defining that role, and saying to the board member, “Hey, this is what we expect of you. This is your lane.” And being clear about that up front through board training, onboarding, mentorship—giving them a mentor to work with on the board—is a missed opportunity. Based on our research, two thirds to three fourths fail to do any onboarding or training. Then you have a board member that doesn’t know what is expected of them, so they run wild. I agree with that comment. I think board members, not maliciously, they don’t just know their role, so they do what they think they need to do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re so right. Without clear expectations, leaders are actually setting up conflict. People don’t know where to- They can’t color inside the lines because they don’t know where the lines are.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> That’s right. I think a lot of times, leaders are timid about this. They are uncomfortable having that conversation. They are uncomfortable telling that powerful donor that has joined the board, “Don’t do this.” They have trouble giving them those lines because they are writing checks in some cases, or they are influential. They struggle with that accountability and that clarity.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a big deal. I hear leaders say, “I can’t correct them because they are volunteers. They’re giving their time.” I served megachurches for 40 years. I had plenty of opportunities to fire volunteers. Sometimes they were happy about it. Most of the time, they were happy about it because they knew it wasn’t a good fit. Actually, I got to a place where we eliminated the word “volunteer” because a lot of the language, like “nonprofit,” which is a lie, and “volunteer,” which is dumbing down, some of the language we use actually contributes to the lower functioning. In the church, we created members of the ministry. It was a leadership position. In my symphony, I am the president of the symphony here, we are on the road to creating a servant leader model, where people have a track, and they lead in the model here. There is a whole lot of things that we set up that we unintentionally set up problems. Talk about this- There is a fear of conflict. People want to step away from it, which fosters it. Making course corrections doesn’t mean you have to tell people they are wrong. Talk about that interaction. That is a big deal, I think.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> I often think- Are you familiar with Patrick Lencioni, the author?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Five Dysfunctions…</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> <em>Five Dysfunctions of a Team.</em> You look at that pyramid. You have to have that trust in order to have conflict, which gets into commitment, which leads to accountability to reinforce it, which outputs results. To have that alignment there, you have to start with trust. Making sure that board member is part- Trust is being part of a team, feeling like they are safe to step up. They can talk about their concerns. They feel they are in a safe space to speak their mind. It’s very hard to engender that without some of that teambuilding work that you need to do with boards. There is some socialization to that. I use a design thinking framework when I work with boards to do small group activities to push conversations and connections so that people feel like they know each other and there is a foundation of trust so they can start to move in that conflict. Conflict is critical. You need to have conflict on a board. Healthy, productive conflict. Not political drama-based conflict, but real conflict where people really care about things.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> it’s a sign of energy, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> It’s a sign of life. If you don’t have it, you have a problem. If everybody is sitting there going, “Yeah, yeah, yeah,” you have a dysfunctional board. It may not look like it, but it’s dysfunctional.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The only place I have seen where there is no conflict is a cemetery.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> There is conflict in the earth between the body and the ground, I’ll tell you that much.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh man. Another watching on Facebook is Don Green, who is in Wise, Virginia. Don Green is the executive director of a nonprofit called The Napoleon Hill Foundation. Don is sending his thank you because this is useful information.</p> <p>Russell, do you want to weigh in on this leader making course corrections? I think this is a bigger topic than most people realize.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Running a nonprofit or an organization is just like flying a plane. When you get into a plane, your pilot takes off, and they are flying along. They are off course the vast majority of the time. They spend the whole time course-correcting. You know where you’re leaving from, and you know where you’re going, but you make a lot of adjustments along the way. Running an organization is a lot like that. That is the thing.</p> <p>I had somebody say to me one time. I was attending a church many years ago back home. These guys are all nice. One of the deacons said, “If you like everybody you’ve met here, you haven’t been to enough services.” There is going to be that conflict from time to time. It’s important to be able to come back together at the end of that day and agree on the common goal. How you get there could be an interesting dynamic. If everybody was the same, people would get bored and walk away. That dynamic tension is what makes the work exciting.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You don’t want a bunch of yes people, do you?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> No, it would be very dull.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Also, we create a culture that is the opposite, where people are afraid of standing out and saying their mind. The real meeting happens in the parking lot. “So yeah, I knew what was going on in there, but here is what I think.” Triangling going on.</p> <p>Jeb, let’s forecast. What does a really great board look like? We were talking about the exceptional board member. Either the board as a whole or a board member. Tell us what that looks like from your perspective.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> I think there are a few dimensions to this. You have the composition of the board itself. The board should be somewhat reflective, not entirely one-to-one of the people it’s serving, but somewhat reflective so there is an empathetic connection to the service being provided. Then I think there should be diversity of age, race, gender. It needs to bring in different perspectives. I don’t have an exact formula for that, but a healthy board has a level of diversity there.</p> <p>Getting into the roles of the board. You look at that. We need someone who has a legal background, depending on the organization, a finance background, a marketing background. It’s important to have that composition as well.</p> <p>Then you look at the actual activity of the board. That’s where I think about engagement. I think about seven dimensions of engagement.</p> <p>Preparation for a board meeting. Are they preparing? Are they reading the materials?</p> <p>Are they showing up to the meetings?</p> <p>Are they following through on what they said they would do?</p> <p>Are they volunteering, getting involved in the organization so they feel the impact of the work?</p> <p>Are they advocating on behalf of the organization?</p> <p>Are they fundraising? Helping raise money.</p> <p>Are they donating? Writing the checks.</p> <p>Looking across those seven dimensions, and then looking at those other areas, I think that then you need leadership. That is the last ingredient. To make sure you have that foundation of safety and trust for conflict, which leads to a healthy dialogue and the ability of that board to really, truly govern the organization.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Our friend Dr. David Gruder develops a lot of tools around that for people to talk to one another. There are some other resources out there like <em>Difficult Conversations</em> by Douglas Stone and Bruce Patten. It’s important to be able to do that. What it boils down to is being genuine and authentic. You’re communicating in respectable ways. What are some of the tools you have provided to help board members do that in organizations you work with?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> I’m familiar with <em>Crucial Conversations.</em> Is that a similar framework to what you’re talking about?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yes, they are different.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> <em>Crucial Conversations</em> is wonderful training. I have done that a couple times. I think that’s great training. It’s a little extensive for a full board to go through. In my experience, I have a background in design thinking. It’s a framework that people-centered. It’s empathy-based. It’s all about starting with the problem. Trying to create a consensus around what the problem is, not what the solution is. There is a lot of different exercises that come from that, different ways that you can facilitate whole and small group exercises. You can do research.</p> <p>There is a whole toolkit that my previous company SmallBox used in our work with nonprofits and boards. For instance, organizational values, which is a part of what the board needs to do. They need to be a part of that values conversation. Mission, vision, those conversations as well. Then you get into strategic planning. There are tools around that from the design thinking background that are helpful for that.</p> <p>Working with the United Way board here in town, we recently redesigned their entire board governance approach. It started with working in small groups to bring in ideas and socialize ideas with the larger board to then refine those, and take those back to leadership, and put them into a plan. I follow that approach, which is more organic. I do think there is good tools out there. My background and training is more in that design thinking framework, which is more custom to the situation.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Custom solution is different. Everyone is different. Everyone on the board is different. What are some challenges in making a board run efficiently that you’ve seen across various types of organizations, some of the universal ones?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> Meetings. Time management. Managing the agenda, managing the conversations, making sure that people are staying on topic. You don’t have people grandstanding. Every board has someone who loves to hear themselves talk. There have been times where it’s been me. I love to hear myself talk. But having the chair or the executive director, it’s best when it’s the chair, be an active facilitator and have some facilitation training, so they learn how to bring in others, make sure everyone has that safe space to be heard. I think that’s critical in a productive board experience. Everything about the board is that meeting. Like you said, the parking lot conversations, that starts to happen a lot when the dysfunction of that meeting deepens. All of that stuff ripples out. You have phone calls and emails. It cascades when that meeting is ineffective.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m a conductor. Especially the better they are, every ensemble rehearses for every performance. We don’t rehearse. Some of the stuff you’re talking about is how we get better at what we do. In a sense, rehearsals, I’d like to share with you sometime later. Meetings are the #1 killer of teams. I have a whole piece that says the agenda is the killer of productivity. Agendas don’t use agendas for rehearsals; we use deliverables. We can accomplish. Goals for the session. We focus on outcomes. That is a reframing. I see everything as a rehearsal. I’m sorry.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> Sure, I can relate to that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There are so many things you’ve hit on that are big-deal things that we have to be selective here. I want to go back to this board governance. Russell, he threw a zinger in there that had fire in the name. Did you hear that? About governance and board members.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> Playing with fire.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Playing with fire, yeah.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Expand on that a little bit. Not having ONC insurance, DNC insurance, Arizona missions not having-</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Directors and offices liability insurance policies. It’s critical to protect yourself and to keep the structures separate. Compliance is a big deal when it comes to running these organizations. There is a lot of documentation that is required. Have you found that boards warm up to the challenge of keeping all of that in order?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> Absolutely. I just recently joined a board. A week later, the board resigned, not because I joined the board, but because of issues in the organization. I was the last board member standing. This was an experience. Part of it was because the insurance had not been taken care of. There were other issues and lapse that were not being brought to the board’s attention. It was a two-way street. The leadership in the organization wasn’t doing its job, but neither was the board. The board needs to push to get clarity on those things. Part of why that happened is they did push. It was a bit of a mess.</p> <p>I found myself moving into a chair role when I expected to be a board member, and having to help the organization, and still now, get back up on its feet. It’s been a crash course in a lot of the things we’re talking about. When I’m talking about playing with fire, I am speaking from experience. That’s fire.</p> <p>You’re talking about vehicle insurance and transporting kids. You have to think about that stuff. The board is on the hook. The buck stops with the board. The board is the boss. I don’t think board members really get that when they sign up. I don’t think they really get that. I think they would take their jobs more seriously if they understood the consequences of not doing their jobs. I think that’s a real failure in leadership because they’re too timid about that conversation.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That baptism by fire when I worked with the Micmac nation is the same baptism by fire you’re talking about. In terms of documentation, there are so many things that have to be kept in one place. Does your platform help with that? Does it help to deal with governing documents and creating a space where people can collaborate and have these conversations? That is another common problem. I have my favorite tools I use to work with. I have different clients who like different tools, some of which I’m not crazy about. It’s about getting things done, so I have learned to use a number of different things. That’s not always conducive to good communication and keeping things working. Talk about if you could address the importance of organizing all of your compliance documents and processes.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> That is what Boardable does. Thanks for the pitch there. The problem that we see with a lot of boards is that nothing is one place. When a new board member rolls on, they’re forwarding them emails. The mess grows and expands. Having all documents, everything that you’re doing in one place so that no matter what, you’ve got it right here on the app. You have your directory, your documents. You can call someone from here. You have your groups, agendas, minutes, and voting, everything you need in one place, your notifications, tasks, follow-up items. And you integrate with all those other tools. That is the key here. You have to integrate with Google Docs and Dropbox and Microsoft and calendars and emails because people won’t stop using those tools. They shouldn’t. They work. We have to meet them where they are. A lot of what we focus on is accepting the board experience as it is and coming alongside and bringing value and augmenting what they’re doing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What you don’t know is the guy who comes knocking at the door from the IRS was Russell. He knows about compliance. He wants to see your corporate record book. I find many, if any, executives who understand what the function of the record book is and what should be in there. Is that part of your program as well?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> Yes, it automatically organizes all those documents into folders. You can lock and control them depending on committee access. All those meetings are automatically archived historically. Who was in attendance? Who wasn’t? You create a report that shows everything that happened. When the IRS does knock at the door, you can show them exactly what you did, how you voted. There is the agenda from that meeting, whatever you need to show them. Fortunately, I have not been audited yet. Hopefully that doesn’t happen here soon. But when Russell does knock at my door, I’m confident at least with the organizations I’m involved with and our customers they’ll be ready.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re audit-ready.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> I hope so. I’ll ask my CFO and see if he has the answers.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell is on a good track here with compliance. I do think most are blind to this. That’s why you got us on here. This sounds like valuable stuff, doesn’t it, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It is. As far as having processes, a lot of the problems revolve around people using a different language in addition the tools they think differently. There are certain things that have to be in place. if you can create a way where people have that common understanding and can access stuff. Brendan Burchard talks about creating different products, courses, approaching consulting, and he talks about tools. One of the things he says is if it’s not easy to access, understand, and use, people aren’t going to bother with it. Meetings get complicated. A tool like that, Hugh’s publication on conducting a successful meeting, because it really breaks things down and makes it manageable.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> Absolutely. If you can’t use the tool, if you can’t log in, if it’s frustrating or confusing, give it 10, 15, maybe 30 seconds, and at that point, you are going back to what you know. This is where things get hard. The organization often caters to the board. They want the board to be taken care of. If the board says this isn’t working for me, whatever it is, they will print out the packet. They will do whatever they need to do to help the board. It’s good and bad. It’s good to take care of your board. The board needs that information. I think it’s also good sometimes that organization needs to push the board more than they do. Too often, they cater and capitulate to the board instead of pushing the board to do best practices in terms of how they want to communicate. They have to give them tools that are easy to use. That is super critical.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Jeb, let’s take a case study. Is that okay? A real, live situation. I am the president of the board, the board chair, of the Lynchburg Symphony. We have 24 board members. A third rotate each year. It’s a three-year gig. We have a moving and family situation, so we have 10 new members coming in. A week and a half from now, we are doing our strategy, some people would call it a retreat, but we are going to charge. We are not retreating. It’s a work session, which is different from a board meeting. We have a planning session. I have highly skilled board members that are committee chairs of development, finance, events, and concert programs. We are mapping the future. Our proprietary strategy is called a solution map. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there? it’s the basic rubric of a strategic plan, but more nonprofit-friendly.</p> <p>We are doing our planning session. I already met with all the chairs and the new conductor. We are starting a new era with a new conductor. I am succeeding a president who put a lot of systems in place. I am inheriting a sound board and a sound organization, financially and structurally, and we are moving it up. What do you think is the most important things that I should do with incoming board members as we strategize on our work and integrating our work together as we plan for the next five years, and specifically the next year?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> I think that the onboarding piece is critical. We talked about that earlier. Making sure they know what is expected of them and what their role is. I think that’s important. Assigning them a board mentor is important as well if that is something you can do. That can give them navigational help on a peer level. The third thing is getting them a committee assignment as soon as possible. They need to feel like they have a role on the board. The board meeting, they will feel they are observers for a while. They may ask some questions, but they may not feel they have a really defined role. That onboarding, setting roles and responsibilities, getting them a mentor, getting them on a committee are three initial things you can do that will increase their engagement and make them feel like they are a part of something. That is the initial phase.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, I did all of those.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> Good job!</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yes, you did. Building a board book. When people go through our leadership symposium, it’s a board book. It lays out a big-picture overview of some things you do. He has other materials he’s built that could actually take leaders through a reflective process. Having what we call a board book has the information that people need. Setting up some training around that and having them go through that, as well as having a mentor, is great. As you are bringing somebody on board, you want to find out what lights their fire. What is something they just can’t wait to get out of bed to do? They are going to have some ownership around that. They will have ideas around that. Good leaders build better leaders. You set the parameters for success, and you turn them loose and let them run with it.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> That’s a great point. Tapping into what they’re passionate about is critical. That is often a conversation before they join the board, but it can be an ongoing conversation of what is the why. What is the why here? There has to be some alignment between their why and the organization’s why. If that is missing, they’re not going to be engaged. There will be misalignment. That leads to dysfunction, which can be challenging.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I like that word, “dysfunction.”</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Especially if they are effective and highly visible, everyone accepts Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny is running after them to get them on their board of directors. That’s fine if they have the bandwidth to do it. What I have seen on occasion is they are not clear with what they want to do or accomplish. They’re not sure what they want from the board members. Typically, they find people who they love and adore, who they’re good friends with, who support them. They don’t always take that inventory of exactly what they need, and can’t always define that commitment. What are some of the things you have seen? How have you been able to address those types of issues?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> In terms of aligning their commitment?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> And crafting a set of expectations.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> To be honest, I haven’t done that as much as I should have. The previous time, I was chairing two nonprofits I co-founded, and they were like start-ups. It was a bootstraps situation, where the founders became the board members. We added from there. With the board I am rejuvenating right now, we are in triage mode. We are trying to get up and running.</p> <p>With the larger board I serve on, the United Way board, they are much more intentional about this experience. It’s been good to watch from that perspective. I have a financial commitment to the board I’m making, which is important. A lot of boards have that. The more mature and functional board, which this one certainly is, they know what they’re doing, they’re intentional. They have a full-time administrator working with the board. There are clear commitments. I sign things every year. They talk about it a lot. They have one-on-one sessions with me every year to talk about my giving, where I’m going with my life. How is United Way going to be a part of that? I have seen that be effective.</p> <p>I see it more with my customers, but I am speaking from my own experience. I have been more on the start-up side of boards. When a board is starting up, the start-up phase is different. You have the start-up, the growth, and the cruise. The cruise control one is where United Way is. It’s healthy, big, knows what it’s doing. Different dynamics, different needs. It changes as the board changes.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> A lot of tools we put together here at SynerVision address organizations at different stages. What I love about the model Hugh has created is it’s perfect for somebody who is starting. If you can structure everything right, which isn’t always the case, you’re going to have fewer problems later.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you for highlighting that. What I see, Jeb, is we do the people part of this. What’s missing is all the stuff you highlighted. The plethora of emails that is a cancer. I remember when we didn’t have email, when we didn’t have the Internet, we didn’t have cell phones or texting. We keep adding things, but we never take anything away. People are just bombarded. Sometimes they don’t read anything.</p> <p>You’ve covered so many important topics here. Russell, you never saw this happen, but I have seen this happen. Board members come unprepared to a meeting.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That happens?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> I’ve never seen that happen.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> When did that start?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> Shocking.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> They’re busy people. They leave a board meeting and get sucked into the vortex of life. The next thing they know, there is another meeting coming up at 6:00. What was I supposed to do? It’s the engagement piece that keeps people tuned in between meetings. One of my missions in meetings is we teach people that we don’t work at meetings, we work in between meetings. We check in. it’s an accountability system. A planning session is different. A regular board meeting, we report on what we’ve done, and we define what we’re going to do and look for those points of collaboration and collision that we want to work on. Speak about those topics.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> You’re totally right. It’s the in-between that is so important. Board members think of their board services as simply the meeting. Here I am, I’m in the meeting. There are some boards where that is truly their role. That goes back to defining roles and responsibilities. If all they are doing is being advisory, or simply sitting there to listen and decide, that is one thing. A healthy board has projects and activities running in between meetings. To do that, there is a lot of management. You have to set that expectation up front of what kind of hours you are committing a month when you join this board. Very few boards have that conversation. They talk about the board meetings. They talk maybe about committees. Talking about the hours you will commit and spend. This is two or three hours a week, we expect you to come in for a meeting, etc. We redesigned the committees at United Way, and it has been a fascinating experience. We are moving more toward work groups. More ad hoc. Is this getting you excited?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh yeah. There is the old adage that committees are a place where good ideas go to die.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> I respect that committees are still the primary vehicle for a lot of organizations and our customers. I think there are healthy committees. The idea of being more ad hoc subject matter experts that come together as needed around a problem to solve that problem. Those are being formed as needed. During board meetings, between board meetings. They are reporting back. You have a platform, whether it’s Boardable or something else, where they are able to collaborate, share content documents. That creates visibility to others in the organization so that work is not entirely happening in a silo. That makes the work more effective. It multiplies that work. That move is a good one. It gives people something to do. I hate sitting in a committee meeting and feeling like I have nothing to do with what’s being talked about. I want to feel like I have some skin in the game.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. Russell, this is music to our ears, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is great stuff. Solution sessions are great because you got to get in there, got to get it done. You don’t have time to goof around. Having people with the right information. Understanding the roles and how everybody fits is communication. That is where things slip through the cracks, when somebody says, “I thought you were going to take care of that.” “Didn’t we agree you would?” You end up in this back and forth. You definitely want to stay out of that. You want to stay out of finger-pointing as well. What you’re doing is too important. Finger-pointing solves no problems. It keeps you away from course-correcting.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I love it. My meetings always end with an action plan. Who is going to do it? What is the action? To do what? Who is the champion? What is the deadline? It ends up with a communication board. What is the specific message somebody that is not here needs to know? Who was going to tell them? We don’t think of those things. We sit around and talk about things to do. Everyone assumes the facilitator will do them.</p> <p>Man, it’s been a lot of very helpful content here. What are board ambassadors? I want to ask you two questions. What are board ambassadors? There are groups, governance and financial oversight, which is your board of directors. The symphony has an advisory council. They are just what you said. We ask their advice. And we have advisors at large, people we call from time to time to give us advice. Those are the three sets of people we have connected. But the board of directors is fitting in to the role you are talking about, the group that is responsible for this organization. Are there other entities, besides committees or work groups or project teams, you find are helpful?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> You have YP boards. They are good to create a feeder system for the main board. Young professional boards. They are that group of younger people in their career, in their 20s often, who are rising in their careers. We see that happening more and more with nonprofits. They have YP boards. They can pick from their boards as you see leadership emerge. I like that system. You see who shows up. You see who gets things done. That also gets that age diversity issue, which I think is a real problem with boards. A lot of boards struggle to get those younger board members. It’s two things. The younger board members don’t have awareness around the opportunity, and I think they are intimidated by it as well. The YP board is a good piece for that.</p> <p>Board ambassadors. That could be more on the emeritus side. Folks who have been on the board for a while, who are no longer in an active role but are still really important connectors in the community, and you want to keep them involved. That is one way to think about it. Perhaps you have a different thought on that term. I’m curious what you’re thinking.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I love that. That’s a vacuum in my thinking. We do see a lot of old white guys. We see way too much of that. I have changed the symphony board so far. The 11 days I’m in, it’s already a different board. I had a good board to build on, so I’m not saying it was bad before. We are adding some of those elements of diversity.</p> <p>Russell, we have about three minutes for a short question before we go into our sponsor message and give Jeb his last word.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> We’re talking about bringing youth in. I like the idea of what I call reverse mentoring, where there is this knowledge exchange between generations. I went to a United Veterans Committee Colorado meeting this morning. Lots of gray hair. Yes, the brown guys get gray hair, too. This whole notion of diversity, I had a marvelous week last week helping Carol Carter with GlobalMinded at Be the Solution conference here in Denver. The whole event was about diversity and inclusion. If people don’t feel like they are a part of something, they won’t participate. That is a serious topic. We have covered that. It might be time for us to do another diversity and inclusion panel, Hugh. That is very important.</p> <p>I am curious as to, and you have been on several boards, what has the composition of your board looked like? What did you need to do to help that along, or make any adjustments to make sure you had the bandwidth of ideas and energy?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> Each board has been unique in this aspect. The Speakeasy was founded by a bunch of white guys. We had to be intentional about diversifying the member base. People who were members of the co-working space, along with the board. Not in a check the box way, but in a legitimate, how do we get real perspectives into this? How do we get women into this? I am proud of where the board is now. It’s had three female executive directors in a row. It’s had a diverse board consistently.</p> <p>In terms of the board I’m working with now, it’s diverse as well. There is a lot of opportunity to improve here. It’s tricky because I think that there aren’t natural pathways for people in different demographics to explore board service. I think this is a real challenge, especially in certain populations in Indianapolis. There is no awareness around it whatsoever. We have a three-phase road map: board management, which is the logistical side of it; board engagement, which gets into all the things we talked about in terms of nudging behavior to people saying what they said they will do; and board talent, really trying to give a tool to boards to get that talent, a matrix to see what diversity they have now, what skills they have now. And a marketplace for them to connect with people. We market that marketplace to populations that don’t currently think of board service. That is where we are taking the product.</p> <p>This speaks to my desire to create more opportunity for others. I feel like this system is rigged. There is an opportunity to use technology and marketing and content to bring others into it. A board role can be transformative in the life of a person. It can broaden their network and connections. It can open doors that wouldn’t have been opened. It can lead to careers and opportunities that were not available to them before that role. To bring more of those roles to people of different backgrounds, not just of my background, but all kinds of backgrounds. I am a privileged person. I grew up with parents who volunteered with nonprofits. This is the culture I came from. It’s what I know. To give this experience to others is where we see the company going.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you on behalf of nonprofits for doing this. This work is so important. We will be having more conversations. Russell, I can smell some cross-support here, maybe more conversations about our alignment. We have things and you have things that would be better together.</p> <p>*Sponsored by Wordsprint*</p> <p>Jeb, give us the top traits of an effective board member. What thought do you want to leave us with? Then Russell will close us out.</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> The seven things I discussed earlier: 1) A board member is prepared for meetings. 2) They are showing up. 3) They are following through. 4) They’re volunteering in the organization. 5) They’re advocating on behalf of the organization. That ambassador piece. 6) They’re helping with fundraising. 7) They’re donating, writing a check themselves. Those are the seven dimensions that we look at to measure in our product.</p> <p>What was the other question?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What tip do you have for people?</p> <p><strong>Jeb:</strong> I think my #1 tip to board leaders is if you are not comfortable having hard conversations, whether it’s the difficult or crucial conversations, take some time to do some training. Learn how to have those conversations in a way that is productive. I believe the difference between a good and a great organization is a lot of hard conversations. That skillset is important to build as a leader.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Jeb Banner, it’s been a remarkable hour. Thank you so much for coming to share your wisdom with us.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>The 45 Minute Business Breakthrough</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-45-minute-business-breakthrough</link>
      <description>The 45 Minute Business Breakthrough Creating More Income with John Gies
 After more than two decades in corporate, John Gies heard a potential client say that $400,000 tax free was not worth his time. John knew then that he wanted to work where he could make a difference. Over the next several years he gained his Coach Certification, He has taught and coached organizations around the country and he now works with small business owners and non-profit organizations to help them create the income they need to thrive.
 John's personal live vision is a world where people are inspired to leverage their power and influence to contribute to a more sustainable and positive workplace.
  
 Read the Interview [Due to a video issue, the beginning of interview is lost. Transcript begins when video was restored.]
 John Gies: A communication coach, that transitioned from- I see your face. Was there a question there?  
 Hugh Ballou: No, I love that story. Go ahead. I’m excited about that.
 John: When I left, what I wanted to do is I tried to look at other companies or other industries. The roads seemed to be closed. I said, What do I like doing? I love speaking in front of an audience. I love training and mentoring my teams. I love facilitating that conversation around the table where we’ve got different interests, maybe sales, operations, and technology trying to create a common vision, and trying to get to that with all those different points of view. I said, Why don’t I become a coach and a trainer?
 I went to work with a company. I got a chance to do some teaching and coaching across North America and Europe around sales, sales training, presentation skills, negotiation skills. Hugh, I hate to sound stereotypical, but stereotypes do exist. The Brits were almost on time, the Germans were early all the time, the French and the Italians showed up when they wanted to show up. It was an interesting experience. The Americans unfortunately were the ones who said, “We’re doing great. We don’t need any help.” It was an interesting experience for me.
 Hugh: That’s a stereotype, but it’s sad, isn’t it?
 John: It is. Yet it sounds something about us, right? Stereotypes are stereotypes in some cases. His name is going to escape me. Someone once said, “If you hear a cliché, look to the truth in the cliché. There is probably something in there that led to the cliché.”
 Hugh: Isn’t that why they are clichés?
 John: Right. While I was working with them, when they had lots of clients, I was busy. When they didn’t have clients, I wasn’t busy, so I decided to embark on my own. Today, I work with organizations with what I call a wholehearted approach to business. It’s not a name that you often think of when you think about business. But wholehearted is three pillars. There is the profit/revenue/money. I used to work with a nonprofit healthcare executive, who I will call Sister Mary. She said, “People come to me all the time and ask why we don’t provide this for free.” Her response was, “If there is no money, there’s no mission.” It’s really making sure that we have the money to fulfill our mission.
 Then there is leadership. Self leadership starts. If we can’t manage ourselves, we can’t manage other people.
 Hey, Russell.
 Russell Dennis: Greetings.
 John: Then it’s the impact we have. Same impact we have on our people, our clientele, our community, the environment, the whole thing. That’s three pillars.
 Hugh: Russell, there is some background noise, so I muted you. You will have to unmute yourself when you come on. He is putting on his headset.
 John, I want to get those three points. Those went by fast. Let’s capture those bullet points.
 John: There is profit. Whether we are in a nonprofit, a small business, or a big business, we can’t fulfill our mission without money. People rely upon us to be here in the long haul. It’s not just a dream to serve. We have to create the sustainability for our future.
 There is leadership. Leadership starts with self-leadership before we can lead others. I can share with you what I mean about that. When I think of one place that leadership is the weakest, it tends to be ourselves.
 The third pillar is impact. What impact are we having on our clients, customers, employees, communities, and stakeholders?
 I was really influenced by a book called Firms of Endearment. It’s a good-to-great comparison of stakeholder organizations versus shareholder organizations. Stakeholders are employees, vendors, the community, the environment, and shareholders. They outperform the S&amp;P by 16X. They outperform the good-to-great companies by a factor of 10X. This lasted even through the Great Recession we just went through. For me, it’s how we take care of all the people in our organizations instead of just focusing on one limited subset of our stakeholders.
 Hugh: Absolutely. We teach those very same things. But it’s good to have you on here because people don’t listen to us. We’re so much in sync with that. John Maxwell in his 21 irrefutable laws of leadership has the law of the lid. You hit the ceiling of the lid, and your organization can’t progress any further than your ability to lead. That is true over and over. Our boards, our teams, our cultures are a reflection of our leadership.
 You may or may not know I am a musical conductor. What they see is what I get. What I practice in real life as a conductor works in the board room, works with the staff, works with the volunteers. It really doesn’t matter where we’re leading; the concepts are the same.
 Russell is coming in from a remote location. He was trying to find a connection last we spoke. Russell is the one who connected with you and suggested you be our guest today. I have looked over your website. It’s good stuff with some nice design. I am impressed with what you do. Thanks to Russell for finding you and finding the synergy.
 One thing you said was about the mindset. Thinking about the profit, leadership, and impact, and the stakeholders. [Audio issue]
 Clergy, people like that. Maybe even major donors. If you want to get money, you want to make sure you demonstrate impact. We want to see a difference. [Video freeze]
 Did I lose you? I’m here. Talk about that a minute, and where that fits into your thinking, how people misperceive profit, how people misperceive leadership. Can you hear me? I think he’s frozen. Maybe, we’re having a technical issue today, folks. So maybe we’ll get back together. John, he showed up over there. We seem to be having some technical issues. John, your video dropped out. There you are. Russell? Same neck of the woods as him. Is there an internet outage out there?
 Russell: I am downtown preparing for the GlobalMindED event. We have leaders here, global-minded. It’s a nonprofit that provides services to help first-generation college students connect with employers. Very big event coming up here. Starting tomorrow. It will be running through Friday. That’s where I’m at. Helping with that, looking to set up interviews with leaders and coverage of the event so we have things to talk about.
 Hopefully, John is back with us. He has done a lot of work. He started out with healthcare organizations and started seeing some leadership challenges around that. He has done a lot of work and worked with a lot of organizations here in the Denver area to deal with some of the bottlenecks you experience with leadership. When those bottlenecks are prevalent, you can run into issues with funding. He wrote a book about that. That is one thing I want to ask him about later and have folks get access to that. It’s a very good book.
 Hugh: We did a teaser about the book. We haven’t told anybody about it yet. John, before the technology devil came in here and ate up your feed, I was talking about the misconception of the word “profit” with nonprofits, and how boards have gotten into a negative groove. Do you want to talk about that a minute? Then I will hand it over to Russell, who is the one with the real tough questions.
 John: Great. Yeah. If I understand you, the question is profit versus nonprofit? It’s interesting. Russell did this for a long time. There really is no difference. If there is no money, there is no mission. We have to generate enough profit, retained earnings, income, whatever you want to call it, so we can redistribute it. I often encounter both in the corporate world from healthcare providers who were nonprofit, and nonprofits I have volunteered with over the years, that money is not the big thing. It’s all about service. It’s all about serving the customer, the patients, our clientele. If you can’t keep the lights on, you can’t deliver any service. I feel like I’m rambling a bit. This is where my wholeheartedness comes from.
 If you look at the way businesses are being structured today, more and more of them are being structured to deliver a different kind of value than just the bottom line. There are benefit corporations. There are LLCs that are for-profits embedded within nonprofits. There is a whole host of ways we can use our work, I have air quotes up there, to do good in the world. I think it was Kahlil Gibran who said, “Work is love made visible.” Regardless of what we’re doing, we should be able to bring love into the world, or wholeheartedness, even at a profit.
 Hugh: We generate income because we generate value. Russell has helpful observations and questions. I’m going to park for a minute and let him participate. Thank you, Russ for being here. I know it was a challenge getting on today.
 Russell: Thanks. It’s good to be here. I know John is an amazing person. I am glad I met you. One of the things that you and I talked about over coffee was the notion of value, and how that is being redefined today. Folks that are running businesses to make a profit often talk in terms of value. It seems to be a word that nonprofit leaders haven’t wrapped their arms around yet. Even if they do, some of the team may not be aware of what exactly is value. How do you ramp up those discussions when you are talking to nonprofit organizations in terms of speaking to value and what that means to the different audiences they serve?
 John: What a great question. Nonprofits deliver such value. Whether it’s providing a roof over our heads, food and shelter. They look and say, “That’s what we are giving to our clientele, people who need that value.” They’re also delivering value to the donors and people who are fundraisers. I met with a young man who moved here from D.C. His whole background is in philanthropy.
 If I’m a donor, the example I was thinking through on this is do you remember Sally Struthers and the Feed the Children campaign from years ago? She would come on TV and see all these images of hungry children. We would make a donation. We got a letter from that child. We are in relationship to that child. Now there is this warm, fuzzy feeling of, I, as a donor, am getting real value from that donation in my heart.
 What happens for a lot of us today is we don’t think about how we’re delivering value to all of our stakeholders, be they fundraisers, donors, clientele, you have different kinds of value to each one of them. For a donor, one of the big questions donors all have is, “If I give you money, will it go to the end user, or will it go to administrative costs?” There are a whole host of people who are doing valuations and rankings around that. How can I pluck John’s heartstring? How can I pluck Russell’s heartstrings?
 A friend of mine had a daughter who came into the world with a lot of physical challenges. In Children’s Hospital for years. Her mom was in and out. If I deliver a message to her that talks about children and supporting people while they are waiting for a child to come out of the hospital, that is delivering value to me because it sings and resonates with me. Does that make sense?
 Russell: That’s the trick. That’s the challenge a lot of for-purpose enterprises (as we prefer to call them, a term given to us by one of our guests). That is the challenge. You have multiple audiences. Value is not only something that has to be quantified in material terms. It’s different for every audience. The way that we relate to each other is through stories. People are discovering that. The big question is what is your story? Different people have different metrics, depending on their perspective. How important is it to have ways to measure what is valuable? How do you help nonprofits navigate that when they have these multiple audiences? How do you help them navigate figuring out what the message is for each audience?
 John: Really good question. When I share measurements, I think to my friend Annette, who is a good evaluator, who does research to quantify numbers and cents. When you think about a sentence or a paragraph or a story, how do you measure the ROI? What is the equation? Actually, there is a lady by the name of Nancy Duarte, who has mapped a really good storyteller. She took Martin Luther King’s “I Had a Dream” speech, and mapped the structure of the speech with its peaks and valleys to lead to the enrollment of the audience in his message.
 To answer your question, sometimes the impact is emotion. Even though we are driven by our spreadsheets in business, those are only to back up the emotional decisions we have already made. Working with a nonprofit, when we think about the donor, we have to think about what emotions we touch on. If I am talking to a philanthropist or a fund, like The Knight Foundation, what is the emotion or feeling I want them to feel about what they’re going to do for us? When I am trying to pull people off the streets as clients into my organization, how do I want them to feel? What I find most of us do is we run, run, run. And we don’t stop to think about the value. It’s not always what we think it is. What I counsel my clients on is it’s not putting food in someone’s hands. It’s answering a question about the concern of who is giving them the food.
 I’ll give you an example. Most painting contractors think they are hired to paint the house. They will tell the consumer, “We do great painting.” The reality is, the consumer is thinking, I’d like to have my house painted, but how do I know that painter will be on time, done on time, and won’t leave a mess? We have to answer the questions behind the question to call those, whether it’s a donor, a fundraiser, the clientele, or the public because the public can be very strong advocates for our for-purpose organizations.
 Great word choice by the way. I’m bouncing a bit, but that changes the whole framework of how you think about the organization. There is the nonprofit and the for-purpose. There is a withdrawal and an engagement. Good choice of words there.
 Russell: I’d like to go back to the statement of people looking at how you spend the money. I think we have seen some perception problems with the structure of an organization. A lot of people want to write checks for programs, but they don’t necessarily want to pay the nonprofit’s rent. You have to have a structure to deliver a program. But if you are running the organization delivering the programs, you have to be efficient. You have to be good stewards of the resources entrusted to you. Talk about some of the things you do when working with organizations of any stature to navigate that.
 John: When you say stewardship, are you talking about attracting money? Are you talking about managing expenses?
 Russell: Taking care of the money entrusted to you. Making the best use of it and maximizing value with it. Taking good care of it.
 John: A great question. Years and years ago, this will surprise you. I ran into a nonprofit collection agency. This was an organization embedded within another organization. Their money was to support the organization they were embedded in. For them, they could have really good expenses and really nice cars and really great lifestyles, but a lot of that wasn’t coming back to what was originally meant for.
 I contrast that with the man who I was telling you about earlier who sits on the board of a nonprofit. Someone came in and said, “We are getting ready to do our new benefits. We want to have a nine-month maternity leave. We want to have 35 days of PTO.” He said, “Wait a minute. How can we do that? That is stealing from our organization and our constituents.”
 The easy answer for you is the mindset. What are we really here to do? Are we here to serve, or are we here to take? My experience is the more we deliver into the world, the more we give, the more we receive in return without having to strive for that.
 The way I work with most of my customers is to help them attract the stakeholders they need. What prompted our conversation was this book, The 45 Minute Business Breakthrough. What that is about is to get leads. How do I get people who are interested in coming to my organization, whether it’s a client or a donor? We will often think, They will find us. It’s not who you know; it’s who knows you. We have to craft a message that resonates with those people.
 Hugh: John, hold that book up again. Remember my age and mental condition. Tell us about the book, John.
 John: It’s called The 45 Minute Business Breakthrough. It’s how to find revenue for your business in 45 minutes.
 Hugh: 45 minutes?
 John: Yes.
 Hugh: What takes so long? That’s pretty fast. That got my attention.
 John: It’s simple. Think about the real estate agent who tells you, “I sell real estate, commercial and residential, up and down the range.” Here in Denver, there are 20,000 real estate agents. Contrast that to the one who says, “I help millennials find the loft of their dreams in downtown Denver.” Even though I am not a millennial, I am far past the millennial stage, I will remember that message. When I hear someone say they are looking for a loft, I can make the hook.
 If you ask yourself, What would that do for my business? You can find money really fast. When you talk about how do I make an offer that is so compelling that I can come into relationship with you? Maybe it’s I sign up for your newsletter. I hear stories about the organization how you are changing lives. When it comes time to write a check, I am more likely to write a check.
 There is an organization I do some work with here called Goodwill to Work. I get to work with high school students as they are preparing to enter the work force: mock interviews, reviewing portfolios, reviewing resumes. It gives me great faith in the future of ourselves. When they come looking for money, I am more open to that because I am invested in that.
 It’s helping the business owner, to answer your question, look at the five areas that drive 80% of their growth. It’s leads, how to turn leads into customers, how to create an offer that gives more value so they are willing to spend more money with me, and quit discounting. You have to sell more of the product to get the same.
 Hugh: There is a correlation here. We talk about selling to churches. Churches say, “We don’t sell.” Then what is evangelism? I talk to generic nonprofits about business models. No, we are a nonprofit. People are supposed to give everything. That does not mean you can beat up your employees. That is why the burnout rate is about 50% with executive directors. You are moving into the mindset. It’s a social entrepreneurial mindset.
 You talked about businesses having a triple bottom line. I think nonprofits should have multiple bottom lines. One of them should be retained earnings. Russell, why don’t you weigh in on this? You used to work for an agency who had three letters. It’s about where the money goes. We need another number for profit, and we need another way to look at accounting so overhead is really clear. Overhead goes to the people we serve. The words for profit are uncomfortable.
 Russell: When people in our circles call it “surplus,” but the bottom line is you have to bring in more than you push out. If you bring in more than you push out, you become what is known as sustainable. Operating with a surplus is important because you have to be prepared for all types of contingencies. There are things that happen. Mother Nature, for example. You have fires, floods, hurricanes, different events that impact different businesses that impact the nonprofits on the ground as well. It’s important to operate at that surplus. When it comes to overhead, which is everything that isn’t directly poured into the services, people think of that in terms of costs versus an investment. If it’s an investment, you get a good return on that. That means the management is taking care of the assets. They are providing superior service. They are effective and efficient at keeping costs under control. But you still have that structure there so you can go out and create more impact, as it were. The impact is in the eyes and ears of the beholders. I know John has heard this multiple times.
 John, you deal with it in for-profits and nonprofits when it comes to talking about impact. What is your experience with that word? Do you find that it is overused or misused? How do you help people frame that in a way that is balanced?
 John: I play with the word “balance.” If there is a balance, we are going to disrupt it. It’s more how do we create harmony around it? Impact is in the eyes of the beholder. Again, it’s about- I find this with myself often. I get up, sit down at my desk, and start working. When I get done, I have done a lot, and think about what impact I actually have. The first step is to slow down. As Stephen Covey said, “What is the end in mind?” What impact do I want to have?
 One client recently, the impact she wanted to have was more visibility in her organization. If that’s what I want to have, if that’s my end in mind, how do I have to make you feel to get that visibility? Now that I know those two questions, I can ask myself, “Who do I have to be to bring it?”
 In terms of messaging, what do I want them to experience? A great example. I had a customer the other day tell me. We often think about painting as putting a coating on the wall. For this company, it is a customer experience. The experience that you and I as a homeowner experience for you painting.
 In the case of the Rocky Mountain Microfinance Institute, what impact do they have on their small business owners as they compete in a 12-week boot camp for a microloan? The answer is they get 95% of their loans are repaid. Those companies are still in business years later. Every time I go, there is someone who would not have gotten a job in the corporate world who has created a successful business because they went through a 12-week boot camp to learn basic kinds of things. The impact is how are they feeling? What are the net results? It’s all of that. Does that answer your question?
 Russell: That does, yes. For anybody who is out there making a difference, there are all these measures. How people measure things is critical. It’s getting out there, being of service, and doing that better than others efficiently and effectively as you possibly can. There are a lot of tools that leaders need to have in order to drive value, in order to grow as an organization. What are the most basic tools that you give your clients when you start working with them initially? Are there some key basics that are missing in the large quantity? Or some things that leaders overlook? In that sense, what are some of the things that you find nonprofit leaders overlook more frequently than not?  
 John: Great question. I think there are two big opportunities, whatever your work is. The first one is really getting clear and planting your flag on who you serve. Being clear that we are in this to serve children, sick children, healthy children, starving children, whatever the service is. And then nobody else. We all think we can serve everybody. We want to serve all sorts of people. Until we plant the flag and say this is who we serve, how we serve, and why we serve, we are noise. Russell, you know this because you’re in Denver. There are 11,000 nonprofits in the Denver/Boulder community. Many of them are duplicating services. It’s noise in the marketplace. How do they stand out? Planting the flag, being clear, and saying, “I am for the 10% that this resonates with.” Because then they will find us. We will get some of the other people who will be in that outer circle who will be attracted to us. We have to call our tribe to us. From the business standpoint, that is the biggest thing. I get this. I want to serve everybody, too. We have to get clear on who we serve, how we serve, and why we serve.
 Russell: The idea of niching down and picking a category is frightening for both business owners and nonprofit leaders. I know I’ve had movement within my own business of who do you serve, will there be scarcity. I think scarcity thinking is terrible for the mindset of an entrepreneur regardless of the tax status of the organization he/she runs. How do you have that conversation with people who may be apprehensive about the idea of niching down and being more focused and targeted?
 John: It’s history. It’s experience. I’m working with a company right now. They have been doing Groupons to call in their clientele. I finally got him to stop that because what he would get is people coming in looking for the discount all the time, but they weren’t coming back to purchase more. He recognized that is not the clientele he wants to serve. He wants to serve the people who really care about what he delivers. When he gets one of them, they don’t question his cost. They know he can trust him, he will deliver the service, and they will walk away with value.
 You have to ask people to step out on faith and try it. I have yet to have someone who tries it fail at it. I just had this conversation with a lady at a digital marketing firm this morning. She said, “Sometimes I just have to have faith. I don’t have to worry about this deal or that donor or that foundation. I have to have faith that if I serve, I will be rewarded. It took me until I was in my forties to realize that my middle name is Faith. Faith plays a role in all of this.”
 Hugh: It does. John, you talked earlier about going to the bottom for the price. We tend to race to the bottom because we think we have to have the lowest price to attract people. There is a similar model with nonprofits. We have this money shadow. We don’t want to talk about money, and we don’t want to ask for money. It’s reframing the whole conversation about what you said earlier about value. What we’re talking about is value. Money is an exchange. We have to pay the rent. We have to pay the salaries of those good people we employ. Talk about this thing with money. Do you see what I’m talking about? Is there a similarity with entrepreneurs looking at everyone else and pricing themselves under it? That’s not a good way to do it. Nonprofits are asking for too little money.
 John: I lost your audio there. It’s a good question. What I find- I grew up in sales. I’m afraid to ask for more because I was afraid I was going to hear no. As a nonprofit, if I’m asking for donations, I don’t want to hear no. Nobody wants to hear no because they are afraid of being outcast. I wrote this on a blog post not too recently. I came to a realization. I was on my way to a meeting with someone to give a presentation, and I had this voice in my head say, “Who are you? Who do you think you are?” I was in the presentation watching the audience, and I saw a couple of people on their phones. “Oh my God. They’re not paying attention to me. I’ve lost them.” I got some of the highest marks I’ve ever had for a delivery. I have come to the conclusion that I want to have that voice say, “Who are you? This is not your comfort zone.” on my shoulder because I know I’m doing the work that will deliver value to my organization.
 I think to get to your question of how we get past that fear of asking for money or undervaluing ourselves, we step out of our comfort zone and realize the value that we bring. I have yet to have an experience where I have said, “I can step into this, even though I don’t know where it’s going to go.” that hasn’t delivered value. All too often, we think if we don’t know exactly how it’s going to happen, we don’t want to step into it because we are afraid it might go wrong.
 Russell: Life begins outside of the comfort zone.
 John: It really does. I was teaching a class one time. It was very dependent on a certain program running just the right way. About 20% of the class got an update from Microsoft that eliminated that functionality. What am I going to do? We’ll get to it. We’ll talk about it. Stay away from me. Get feedback from my tech team. Keep teaching. It was some of the highest reviews I’d ever gotten. They’ve asked me back several times. I want to create something going wrong in the presentation just so that there is that kind of result.
 When we get out of our comfort zone and into that place where it’s not working exactly right, we become more present. We become more focused on what we want to deliver to our audience, whether it’s one or many.
 One of the things I wanted to come back to, you asked me earlier about one of the biggest things that for-purpose or for-profits or anybody struggles with. I shared with you that niching idea.
 The other piece is more personal. It’s self-accountability. We talked earlier about self-leadership. Many of us are more than willing to hold anybody accountable for what they are supposed to do. We have meetings around it. We have metrics to race for it. But the thing that we’re not accountable to is our own self. The #1 appointment we break on our calendar is the one we set with ourselves. I might sit down and say, I need to plan my budget for next quarter. But if the phone rings, I will pick up the phone instead of working on that budget. Or I might decide I want to lose ten pounds. I will quit eating French fries and start running. But then it snows. When we don’t hold ourselves accountable, we can’t hold other people accountable. When we start breaking promises to ourselves, we start disbelieving ourselves when we say we can get something done. So part of it is keeping promises to ourselves.
 Russell: It’s interesting that people make commitments to others they won’t make to themselves. I think that is a human nature thing. That plays into what’s best. There are a number of people who talk about self-care and taking care of yourself. One of the things about leader burnout is people drive themselves far too much and don’t necessarily take care of themselves. When you come across executives you’re working with, a lot of times they are burned out, what is the first thing you tell them as far as taking care of themselves? How do you go about finding out if that’s the problem they do have?  
 John: It’s about creating psychological safety. We can do this in our own organizations and families. We want to create safety so that people can be and bring their whole self into the conversation. I am a child of the ‘80s. Greed is good. We have to put up a front. If you remember the shoulder pads from back then, we literally put our armor on. But the reality is when we can bring our whole self into a conversation, we don’t have to carry the stress of trying to be someone we’re not. The first part is bringing psychological safety. People will begin to open up and tell us what is really wrong in our lives.
 I tell people when they are working with me, “There is a lot to do, but you have to schedule two hours a week for you to sit back and think about, “What do I want to do this week? What happened last week? What did I get done? Celebrate! What did I not get done? What will I do to move that forward?” All too often, we run from task to task to task to task. We don’t slow down to shift our state to move into the next meeting. I work with a lot of people who have nine meetings a day. That’s incredible. When do you get your work done? I see three.
 Hugh: We’re coming to the last minutes of our interview. I want to give you a few minutes to talk about one of the most important topics: communication. In 32 years of working with organizations, there has never been an organization who brought it up as one of the top topics. In a quick overview, I want you to talk about why that is significant in the work that you do. Then I will have a sponsor message before giving it back to you for a closing thought. Then Russell will end this interview. John, there are a lot of good sound bites, I must say. John, what is missing in communication? What do we need to do to make it better?
 John: There are four things we need for effective communication. One is clarity. If we are not clear with our message, I ran across this the other night. It’s from Yo-Yo Ma. If we don’t have clarity of message, we are just noise. What happens all too often is I tell you I’m looking for a dog. You will tell me, “You should get a Labrador.” Russell will tell me that I need a terrier. Someone else will tell me a shepherd. I am allergic to most dogs, and my wife doesn’t want anything over 20 pounds. If I had been clear in what I was looking for, you would be clear in your response. Slowing down to get clear.
 Two is respect. Every organization you and I work with has respect in their manual, their mission statement, or their vision statement. Yet 94% of the workforce reports having uncivil behavior in the last year. 54% in the last month. This comes from Harvard Business Review. What does disrespect look like? It might not be holding the door open. It might be perceived disrespect. But what we have to think about how do we create psychological safety? Even if you are a high performer, if you are not treating people right, we need to help you move to a place where your humor is appreciated.
 Candor. Everyone wants more candor. If I were to show you my slide, there would be a burning plane behind me because NASA did research that said commercial airline pilots in a simulator that gave them a crisis, there were three outcomes. One, the captain took control of the plane and crashed it. Two, the captain said, “Crew, I need some help.” Everyone contributed, shared information, and worked together. The plane landed safely. The third one was the interesting one. The captain said, “Help me!” The crew said, “You got this.” They crashed almost as often as the first one. Why? Because the captain created an environment where candor was not appreciated. What happens in our organizations if we are not open to candor? What are we not learning about?
 The last piece is attention. What are we focused on? How many times have you told your child, “Don’t spill the milk?” What happened?
 Hugh: Spill the milk.
 John: When we tell people, “Stop complaining. Stop smoking. Stop fighting.” they don’t hear stop. The brain doesn’t hear stop. Let’s focus on what we want. Those four things are what we need for good communication.
 Hugh: Don’t be late to the meeting. Those four are clarity of message-
 John: Clarity, respect, candor, attention.
 Hugh: John, a lot of good sound bites. You are so well-read. I love this thing about the clarity of the dog. A guy goes up to an intersection in Denver to a guy with a dog and says, “Does your dog bite?” The guy says, “No.” He reaches down to pet the dog, and the dog takes a big chunk out of his arm. He said to the guy, “I thought you said your dog doesn’t bite.” The guy says, “That’s not my dog.” It’s an old joke, but it’s a good example of what you’re talking about. We are assuming that’s his dog because it’s standing next to him.
 We talk about how leaders set up problems. Then we make them worse. This candor and autocratic leadership is not what we do. Thank you for this.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 Before Russell closes out this really helpful interview, what thought do you want to leave with people today?
 John: I thought in preparation for this. I talked to a couple of colleagues who are active in the nonprofit community. What they shared with me is one of the big stressors for nonprofits is resiliency. They are overstressed, under-resourced, struggling against how do we deliver value to our constituents? I thought what would be helpful to them is to acknowledge the stress is there. Leaders paper over the stress or frustration. Until we admit there is something there, we can’t deal with it. If we don’t admit it, our team is looking to us and thinking there is something you’re not telling us. So acknowledge it.
 Have a little bit of grace. We are all doing the best we can. Everybody is doing something for their own reasons. Let’s get clear about what’s going on.
 Be accountable to yourself and to others. When everybody is doing what they are supposed to do, and I don’t have to pick up after you and you don’t have to pick up after me, there is less stress in the organization.
 Clarity of values, beliefs, and behaviors. Making sure we all agree what we want to do to serve our organization and our constituents.
 Appreciation of ourselves and others. We go from day to day to day, from win to win to win, and we don’t stop and celebrate. Celebrate the things you have done well.
 This has been a lot of fun.
 Russell: Thank you very much, John. I appreciate that. It’s been an enlightening conversation. Always remember that honesty without compassion is brutality. How we talk to each other and work with each other is critical inside so we can serve the audiences we can serve.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 09 Jun 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/78b3235a-b329-11eb-9f0f-676d50c3c273/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Creating More Income with John Gies</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The 45 Minute Business Breakthrough Creating More Income with John Gies
 After more than two decades in corporate, John Gies heard a potential client say that $400,000 tax free was not worth his time. John knew then that he wanted to work where he could make a difference. Over the next several years he gained his Coach Certification, He has taught and coached organizations around the country and he now works with small business owners and non-profit organizations to help them create the income they need to thrive.
 John's personal live vision is a world where people are inspired to leverage their power and influence to contribute to a more sustainable and positive workplace.
  
 Read the Interview [Due to a video issue, the beginning of interview is lost. Transcript begins when video was restored.]
 John Gies: A communication coach, that transitioned from- I see your face. Was there a question there?  
 Hugh Ballou: No, I love that story. Go ahead. I’m excited about that.
 John: When I left, what I wanted to do is I tried to look at other companies or other industries. The roads seemed to be closed. I said, What do I like doing? I love speaking in front of an audience. I love training and mentoring my teams. I love facilitating that conversation around the table where we’ve got different interests, maybe sales, operations, and technology trying to create a common vision, and trying to get to that with all those different points of view. I said, Why don’t I become a coach and a trainer?
 I went to work with a company. I got a chance to do some teaching and coaching across North America and Europe around sales, sales training, presentation skills, negotiation skills. Hugh, I hate to sound stereotypical, but stereotypes do exist. The Brits were almost on time, the Germans were early all the time, the French and the Italians showed up when they wanted to show up. It was an interesting experience. The Americans unfortunately were the ones who said, “We’re doing great. We don’t need any help.” It was an interesting experience for me.
 Hugh: That’s a stereotype, but it’s sad, isn’t it?
 John: It is. Yet it sounds something about us, right? Stereotypes are stereotypes in some cases. His name is going to escape me. Someone once said, “If you hear a cliché, look to the truth in the cliché. There is probably something in there that led to the cliché.”
 Hugh: Isn’t that why they are clichés?
 John: Right. While I was working with them, when they had lots of clients, I was busy. When they didn’t have clients, I wasn’t busy, so I decided to embark on my own. Today, I work with organizations with what I call a wholehearted approach to business. It’s not a name that you often think of when you think about business. But wholehearted is three pillars. There is the profit/revenue/money. I used to work with a nonprofit healthcare executive, who I will call Sister Mary. She said, “People come to me all the time and ask why we don’t provide this for free.” Her response was, “If there is no money, there’s no mission.” It’s really making sure that we have the money to fulfill our mission.
 Then there is leadership. Self leadership starts. If we can’t manage ourselves, we can’t manage other people.
 Hey, Russell.
 Russell Dennis: Greetings.
 John: Then it’s the impact we have. Same impact we have on our people, our clientele, our community, the environment, the whole thing. That’s three pillars.
 Hugh: Russell, there is some background noise, so I muted you. You will have to unmute yourself when you come on. He is putting on his headset.
 John, I want to get those three points. Those went by fast. Let’s capture those bullet points.
 John: There is profit. Whether we are in a nonprofit, a small business, or a big business, we can’t fulfill our mission without money. People rely upon us to be here in the long haul. It’s not just a dream to serve. We have to create the sustainability for our future.
 There is leadership. Leadership starts with self-leadership before we can lead others. I can share with you what I mean about that. When I think of one place that leadership is the weakest, it tends to be ourselves.
 The third pillar is impact. What impact are we having on our clients, customers, employees, communities, and stakeholders?
 I was really influenced by a book called Firms of Endearment. It’s a good-to-great comparison of stakeholder organizations versus shareholder organizations. Stakeholders are employees, vendors, the community, the environment, and shareholders. They outperform the S&amp;P by 16X. They outperform the good-to-great companies by a factor of 10X. This lasted even through the Great Recession we just went through. For me, it’s how we take care of all the people in our organizations instead of just focusing on one limited subset of our stakeholders.
 Hugh: Absolutely. We teach those very same things. But it’s good to have you on here because people don’t listen to us. We’re so much in sync with that. John Maxwell in his 21 irrefutable laws of leadership has the law of the lid. You hit the ceiling of the lid, and your organization can’t progress any further than your ability to lead. That is true over and over. Our boards, our teams, our cultures are a reflection of our leadership.
 You may or may not know I am a musical conductor. What they see is what I get. What I practice in real life as a conductor works in the board room, works with the staff, works with the volunteers. It really doesn’t matter where we’re leading; the concepts are the same.
 Russell is coming in from a remote location. He was trying to find a connection last we spoke. Russell is the one who connected with you and suggested you be our guest today. I have looked over your website. It’s good stuff with some nice design. I am impressed with what you do. Thanks to Russell for finding you and finding the synergy.
 One thing you said was about the mindset. Thinking about the profit, leadership, and impact, and the stakeholders. [Audio issue]
 Clergy, people like that. Maybe even major donors. If you want to get money, you want to make sure you demonstrate impact. We want to see a difference. [Video freeze]
 Did I lose you? I’m here. Talk about that a minute, and where that fits into your thinking, how people misperceive profit, how people misperceive leadership. Can you hear me? I think he’s frozen. Maybe, we’re having a technical issue today, folks. So maybe we’ll get back together. John, he showed up over there. We seem to be having some technical issues. John, your video dropped out. There you are. Russell? Same neck of the woods as him. Is there an internet outage out there?
 Russell: I am downtown preparing for the GlobalMindED event. We have leaders here, global-minded. It’s a nonprofit that provides services to help first-generation college students connect with employers. Very big event coming up here. Starting tomorrow. It will be running through Friday. That’s where I’m at. Helping with that, looking to set up interviews with leaders and coverage of the event so we have things to talk about.
 Hopefully, John is back with us. He has done a lot of work. He started out with healthcare organizations and started seeing some leadership challenges around that. He has done a lot of work and worked with a lot of organizations here in the Denver area to deal with some of the bottlenecks you experience with leadership. When those bottlenecks are prevalent, you can run into issues with funding. He wrote a book about that. That is one thing I want to ask him about later and have folks get access to that. It’s a very good book.
 Hugh: We did a teaser about the book. We haven’t told anybody about it yet. John, before the technology devil came in here and ate up your feed, I was talking about the misconception of the word “profit” with nonprofits, and how boards have gotten into a negative groove. Do you want to talk about that a minute? Then I will hand it over to Russell, who is the one with the real tough questions.
 John: Great. Yeah. If I understand you, the question is profit versus nonprofit? It’s interesting. Russell did this for a long time. There really is no difference. If there is no money, there is no mission. We have to generate enough profit, retained earnings, income, whatever you want to call it, so we can redistribute it. I often encounter both in the corporate world from healthcare providers who were nonprofit, and nonprofits I have volunteered with over the years, that money is not the big thing. It’s all about service. It’s all about serving the customer, the patients, our clientele. If you can’t keep the lights on, you can’t deliver any service. I feel like I’m rambling a bit. This is where my wholeheartedness comes from.
 If you look at the way businesses are being structured today, more and more of them are being structured to deliver a different kind of value than just the bottom line. There are benefit corporations. There are LLCs that are for-profits embedded within nonprofits. There is a whole host of ways we can use our work, I have air quotes up there, to do good in the world. I think it was Kahlil Gibran who said, “Work is love made visible.” Regardless of what we’re doing, we should be able to bring love into the world, or wholeheartedness, even at a profit.
 Hugh: We generate income because we generate value. Russell has helpful observations and questions. I’m going to park for a minute and let him participate. Thank you, Russ for being here. I know it was a challenge getting on today.
 Russell: Thanks. It’s good to be here. I know John is an amazing person. I am glad I met you. One of the things that you and I talked about over coffee was the notion of value, and how that is being redefined today. Folks that are running businesses to make a profit often talk in terms of value. It seems to be a word that nonprofit leaders haven’t wrapped their arms around yet. Even if they do, some of the team may not be aware of what exactly is value. How do you ramp up those discussions when you are talking to nonprofit organizations in terms of speaking to value and what that means to the different audiences they serve?
 John: What a great question. Nonprofits deliver such value. Whether it’s providing a roof over our heads, food and shelter. They look and say, “That’s what we are giving to our clientele, people who need that value.” They’re also delivering value to the donors and people who are fundraisers. I met with a young man who moved here from D.C. His whole background is in philanthropy.
 If I’m a donor, the example I was thinking through on this is do you remember Sally Struthers and the Feed the Children campaign from years ago? She would come on TV and see all these images of hungry children. We would make a donation. We got a letter from that child. We are in relationship to that child. Now there is this warm, fuzzy feeling of, I, as a donor, am getting real value from that donation in my heart.
 What happens for a lot of us today is we don’t think about how we’re delivering value to all of our stakeholders, be they fundraisers, donors, clientele, you have different kinds of value to each one of them. For a donor, one of the big questions donors all have is, “If I give you money, will it go to the end user, or will it go to administrative costs?” There are a whole host of people who are doing valuations and rankings around that. How can I pluck John’s heartstring? How can I pluck Russell’s heartstrings?
 A friend of mine had a daughter who came into the world with a lot of physical challenges. In Children’s Hospital for years. Her mom was in and out. If I deliver a message to her that talks about children and supporting people while they are waiting for a child to come out of the hospital, that is delivering value to me because it sings and resonates with me. Does that make sense?
 Russell: That’s the trick. That’s the challenge a lot of for-purpose enterprises (as we prefer to call them, a term given to us by one of our guests). That is the challenge. You have multiple audiences. Value is not only something that has to be quantified in material terms. It’s different for every audience. The way that we relate to each other is through stories. People are discovering that. The big question is what is your story? Different people have different metrics, depending on their perspective. How important is it to have ways to measure what is valuable? How do you help nonprofits navigate that when they have these multiple audiences? How do you help them navigate figuring out what the message is for each audience?
 John: Really good question. When I share measurements, I think to my friend Annette, who is a good evaluator, who does research to quantify numbers and cents. When you think about a sentence or a paragraph or a story, how do you measure the ROI? What is the equation? Actually, there is a lady by the name of Nancy Duarte, who has mapped a really good storyteller. She took Martin Luther King’s “I Had a Dream” speech, and mapped the structure of the speech with its peaks and valleys to lead to the enrollment of the audience in his message.
 To answer your question, sometimes the impact is emotion. Even though we are driven by our spreadsheets in business, those are only to back up the emotional decisions we have already made. Working with a nonprofit, when we think about the donor, we have to think about what emotions we touch on. If I am talking to a philanthropist or a fund, like The Knight Foundation, what is the emotion or feeling I want them to feel about what they’re going to do for us? When I am trying to pull people off the streets as clients into my organization, how do I want them to feel? What I find most of us do is we run, run, run. And we don’t stop to think about the value. It’s not always what we think it is. What I counsel my clients on is it’s not putting food in someone’s hands. It’s answering a question about the concern of who is giving them the food.
 I’ll give you an example. Most painting contractors think they are hired to paint the house. They will tell the consumer, “We do great painting.” The reality is, the consumer is thinking, I’d like to have my house painted, but how do I know that painter will be on time, done on time, and won’t leave a mess? We have to answer the questions behind the question to call those, whether it’s a donor, a fundraiser, the clientele, or the public because the public can be very strong advocates for our for-purpose organizations.
 Great word choice by the way. I’m bouncing a bit, but that changes the whole framework of how you think about the organization. There is the nonprofit and the for-purpose. There is a withdrawal and an engagement. Good choice of words there.
 Russell: I’d like to go back to the statement of people looking at how you spend the money. I think we have seen some perception problems with the structure of an organization. A lot of people want to write checks for programs, but they don’t necessarily want to pay the nonprofit’s rent. You have to have a structure to deliver a program. But if you are running the organization delivering the programs, you have to be efficient. You have to be good stewards of the resources entrusted to you. Talk about some of the things you do when working with organizations of any stature to navigate that.
 John: When you say stewardship, are you talking about attracting money? Are you talking about managing expenses?
 Russell: Taking care of the money entrusted to you. Making the best use of it and maximizing value with it. Taking good care of it.
 John: A great question. Years and years ago, this will surprise you. I ran into a nonprofit collection agency. This was an organization embedded within another organization. Their money was to support the organization they were embedded in. For them, they could have really good expenses and really nice cars and really great lifestyles, but a lot of that wasn’t coming back to what was originally meant for.
 I contrast that with the man who I was telling you about earlier who sits on the board of a nonprofit. Someone came in and said, “We are getting ready to do our new benefits. We want to have a nine-month maternity leave. We want to have 35 days of PTO.” He said, “Wait a minute. How can we do that? That is stealing from our organization and our constituents.”
 The easy answer for you is the mindset. What are we really here to do? Are we here to serve, or are we here to take? My experience is the more we deliver into the world, the more we give, the more we receive in return without having to strive for that.
 The way I work with most of my customers is to help them attract the stakeholders they need. What prompted our conversation was this book, The 45 Minute Business Breakthrough. What that is about is to get leads. How do I get people who are interested in coming to my organization, whether it’s a client or a donor? We will often think, They will find us. It’s not who you know; it’s who knows you. We have to craft a message that resonates with those people.
 Hugh: John, hold that book up again. Remember my age and mental condition. Tell us about the book, John.
 John: It’s called The 45 Minute Business Breakthrough. It’s how to find revenue for your business in 45 minutes.
 Hugh: 45 minutes?
 John: Yes.
 Hugh: What takes so long? That’s pretty fast. That got my attention.
 John: It’s simple. Think about the real estate agent who tells you, “I sell real estate, commercial and residential, up and down the range.” Here in Denver, there are 20,000 real estate agents. Contrast that to the one who says, “I help millennials find the loft of their dreams in downtown Denver.” Even though I am not a millennial, I am far past the millennial stage, I will remember that message. When I hear someone say they are looking for a loft, I can make the hook.
 If you ask yourself, What would that do for my business? You can find money really fast. When you talk about how do I make an offer that is so compelling that I can come into relationship with you? Maybe it’s I sign up for your newsletter. I hear stories about the organization how you are changing lives. When it comes time to write a check, I am more likely to write a check.
 There is an organization I do some work with here called Goodwill to Work. I get to work with high school students as they are preparing to enter the work force: mock interviews, reviewing portfolios, reviewing resumes. It gives me great faith in the future of ourselves. When they come looking for money, I am more open to that because I am invested in that.
 It’s helping the business owner, to answer your question, look at the five areas that drive 80% of their growth. It’s leads, how to turn leads into customers, how to create an offer that gives more value so they are willing to spend more money with me, and quit discounting. You have to sell more of the product to get the same.
 Hugh: There is a correlation here. We talk about selling to churches. Churches say, “We don’t sell.” Then what is evangelism? I talk to generic nonprofits about business models. No, we are a nonprofit. People are supposed to give everything. That does not mean you can beat up your employees. That is why the burnout rate is about 50% with executive directors. You are moving into the mindset. It’s a social entrepreneurial mindset.
 You talked about businesses having a triple bottom line. I think nonprofits should have multiple bottom lines. One of them should be retained earnings. Russell, why don’t you weigh in on this? You used to work for an agency who had three letters. It’s about where the money goes. We need another number for profit, and we need another way to look at accounting so overhead is really clear. Overhead goes to the people we serve. The words for profit are uncomfortable.
 Russell: When people in our circles call it “surplus,” but the bottom line is you have to bring in more than you push out. If you bring in more than you push out, you become what is known as sustainable. Operating with a surplus is important because you have to be prepared for all types of contingencies. There are things that happen. Mother Nature, for example. You have fires, floods, hurricanes, different events that impact different businesses that impact the nonprofits on the ground as well. It’s important to operate at that surplus. When it comes to overhead, which is everything that isn’t directly poured into the services, people think of that in terms of costs versus an investment. If it’s an investment, you get a good return on that. That means the management is taking care of the assets. They are providing superior service. They are effective and efficient at keeping costs under control. But you still have that structure there so you can go out and create more impact, as it were. The impact is in the eyes and ears of the beholders. I know John has heard this multiple times.
 John, you deal with it in for-profits and nonprofits when it comes to talking about impact. What is your experience with that word? Do you find that it is overused or misused? How do you help people frame that in a way that is balanced?
 John: I play with the word “balance.” If there is a balance, we are going to disrupt it. It’s more how do we create harmony around it? Impact is in the eyes of the beholder. Again, it’s about- I find this with myself often. I get up, sit down at my desk, and start working. When I get done, I have done a lot, and think about what impact I actually have. The first step is to slow down. As Stephen Covey said, “What is the end in mind?” What impact do I want to have?
 One client recently, the impact she wanted to have was more visibility in her organization. If that’s what I want to have, if that’s my end in mind, how do I have to make you feel to get that visibility? Now that I know those two questions, I can ask myself, “Who do I have to be to bring it?”
 In terms of messaging, what do I want them to experience? A great example. I had a customer the other day tell me. We often think about painting as putting a coating on the wall. For this company, it is a customer experience. The experience that you and I as a homeowner experience for you painting.
 In the case of the Rocky Mountain Microfinance Institute, what impact do they have on their small business owners as they compete in a 12-week boot camp for a microloan? The answer is they get 95% of their loans are repaid. Those companies are still in business years later. Every time I go, there is someone who would not have gotten a job in the corporate world who has created a successful business because they went through a 12-week boot camp to learn basic kinds of things. The impact is how are they feeling? What are the net results? It’s all of that. Does that answer your question?
 Russell: That does, yes. For anybody who is out there making a difference, there are all these measures. How people measure things is critical. It’s getting out there, being of service, and doing that better than others efficiently and effectively as you possibly can. There are a lot of tools that leaders need to have in order to drive value, in order to grow as an organization. What are the most basic tools that you give your clients when you start working with them initially? Are there some key basics that are missing in the large quantity? Or some things that leaders overlook? In that sense, what are some of the things that you find nonprofit leaders overlook more frequently than not?  
 John: Great question. I think there are two big opportunities, whatever your work is. The first one is really getting clear and planting your flag on who you serve. Being clear that we are in this to serve children, sick children, healthy children, starving children, whatever the service is. And then nobody else. We all think we can serve everybody. We want to serve all sorts of people. Until we plant the flag and say this is who we serve, how we serve, and why we serve, we are noise. Russell, you know this because you’re in Denver. There are 11,000 nonprofits in the Denver/Boulder community. Many of them are duplicating services. It’s noise in the marketplace. How do they stand out? Planting the flag, being clear, and saying, “I am for the 10% that this resonates with.” Because then they will find us. We will get some of the other people who will be in that outer circle who will be attracted to us. We have to call our tribe to us. From the business standpoint, that is the biggest thing. I get this. I want to serve everybody, too. We have to get clear on who we serve, how we serve, and why we serve.
 Russell: The idea of niching down and picking a category is frightening for both business owners and nonprofit leaders. I know I’ve had movement within my own business of who do you serve, will there be scarcity. I think scarcity thinking is terrible for the mindset of an entrepreneur regardless of the tax status of the organization he/she runs. How do you have that conversation with people who may be apprehensive about the idea of niching down and being more focused and targeted?
 John: It’s history. It’s experience. I’m working with a company right now. They have been doing Groupons to call in their clientele. I finally got him to stop that because what he would get is people coming in looking for the discount all the time, but they weren’t coming back to purchase more. He recognized that is not the clientele he wants to serve. He wants to serve the people who really care about what he delivers. When he gets one of them, they don’t question his cost. They know he can trust him, he will deliver the service, and they will walk away with value.
 You have to ask people to step out on faith and try it. I have yet to have someone who tries it fail at it. I just had this conversation with a lady at a digital marketing firm this morning. She said, “Sometimes I just have to have faith. I don’t have to worry about this deal or that donor or that foundation. I have to have faith that if I serve, I will be rewarded. It took me until I was in my forties to realize that my middle name is Faith. Faith plays a role in all of this.”
 Hugh: It does. John, you talked earlier about going to the bottom for the price. We tend to race to the bottom because we think we have to have the lowest price to attract people. There is a similar model with nonprofits. We have this money shadow. We don’t want to talk about money, and we don’t want to ask for money. It’s reframing the whole conversation about what you said earlier about value. What we’re talking about is value. Money is an exchange. We have to pay the rent. We have to pay the salaries of those good people we employ. Talk about this thing with money. Do you see what I’m talking about? Is there a similarity with entrepreneurs looking at everyone else and pricing themselves under it? That’s not a good way to do it. Nonprofits are asking for too little money.
 John: I lost your audio there. It’s a good question. What I find- I grew up in sales. I’m afraid to ask for more because I was afraid I was going to hear no. As a nonprofit, if I’m asking for donations, I don’t want to hear no. Nobody wants to hear no because they are afraid of being outcast. I wrote this on a blog post not too recently. I came to a realization. I was on my way to a meeting with someone to give a presentation, and I had this voice in my head say, “Who are you? Who do you think you are?” I was in the presentation watching the audience, and I saw a couple of people on their phones. “Oh my God. They’re not paying attention to me. I’ve lost them.” I got some of the highest marks I’ve ever had for a delivery. I have come to the conclusion that I want to have that voice say, “Who are you? This is not your comfort zone.” on my shoulder because I know I’m doing the work that will deliver value to my organization.
 I think to get to your question of how we get past that fear of asking for money or undervaluing ourselves, we step out of our comfort zone and realize the value that we bring. I have yet to have an experience where I have said, “I can step into this, even though I don’t know where it’s going to go.” that hasn’t delivered value. All too often, we think if we don’t know exactly how it’s going to happen, we don’t want to step into it because we are afraid it might go wrong.
 Russell: Life begins outside of the comfort zone.
 John: It really does. I was teaching a class one time. It was very dependent on a certain program running just the right way. About 20% of the class got an update from Microsoft that eliminated that functionality. What am I going to do? We’ll get to it. We’ll talk about it. Stay away from me. Get feedback from my tech team. Keep teaching. It was some of the highest reviews I’d ever gotten. They’ve asked me back several times. I want to create something going wrong in the presentation just so that there is that kind of result.
 When we get out of our comfort zone and into that place where it’s not working exactly right, we become more present. We become more focused on what we want to deliver to our audience, whether it’s one or many.
 One of the things I wanted to come back to, you asked me earlier about one of the biggest things that for-purpose or for-profits or anybody struggles with. I shared with you that niching idea.
 The other piece is more personal. It’s self-accountability. We talked earlier about self-leadership. Many of us are more than willing to hold anybody accountable for what they are supposed to do. We have meetings around it. We have metrics to race for it. But the thing that we’re not accountable to is our own self. The #1 appointment we break on our calendar is the one we set with ourselves. I might sit down and say, I need to plan my budget for next quarter. But if the phone rings, I will pick up the phone instead of working on that budget. Or I might decide I want to lose ten pounds. I will quit eating French fries and start running. But then it snows. When we don’t hold ourselves accountable, we can’t hold other people accountable. When we start breaking promises to ourselves, we start disbelieving ourselves when we say we can get something done. So part of it is keeping promises to ourselves.
 Russell: It’s interesting that people make commitments to others they won’t make to themselves. I think that is a human nature thing. That plays into what’s best. There are a number of people who talk about self-care and taking care of yourself. One of the things about leader burnout is people drive themselves far too much and don’t necessarily take care of themselves. When you come across executives you’re working with, a lot of times they are burned out, what is the first thing you tell them as far as taking care of themselves? How do you go about finding out if that’s the problem they do have?  
 John: It’s about creating psychological safety. We can do this in our own organizations and families. We want to create safety so that people can be and bring their whole self into the conversation. I am a child of the ‘80s. Greed is good. We have to put up a front. If you remember the shoulder pads from back then, we literally put our armor on. But the reality is when we can bring our whole self into a conversation, we don’t have to carry the stress of trying to be someone we’re not. The first part is bringing psychological safety. People will begin to open up and tell us what is really wrong in our lives.
 I tell people when they are working with me, “There is a lot to do, but you have to schedule two hours a week for you to sit back and think about, “What do I want to do this week? What happened last week? What did I get done? Celebrate! What did I not get done? What will I do to move that forward?” All too often, we run from task to task to task to task. We don’t slow down to shift our state to move into the next meeting. I work with a lot of people who have nine meetings a day. That’s incredible. When do you get your work done? I see three.
 Hugh: We’re coming to the last minutes of our interview. I want to give you a few minutes to talk about one of the most important topics: communication. In 32 years of working with organizations, there has never been an organization who brought it up as one of the top topics. In a quick overview, I want you to talk about why that is significant in the work that you do. Then I will have a sponsor message before giving it back to you for a closing thought. Then Russell will end this interview. John, there are a lot of good sound bites, I must say. John, what is missing in communication? What do we need to do to make it better?
 John: There are four things we need for effective communication. One is clarity. If we are not clear with our message, I ran across this the other night. It’s from Yo-Yo Ma. If we don’t have clarity of message, we are just noise. What happens all too often is I tell you I’m looking for a dog. You will tell me, “You should get a Labrador.” Russell will tell me that I need a terrier. Someone else will tell me a shepherd. I am allergic to most dogs, and my wife doesn’t want anything over 20 pounds. If I had been clear in what I was looking for, you would be clear in your response. Slowing down to get clear.
 Two is respect. Every organization you and I work with has respect in their manual, their mission statement, or their vision statement. Yet 94% of the workforce reports having uncivil behavior in the last year. 54% in the last month. This comes from Harvard Business Review. What does disrespect look like? It might not be holding the door open. It might be perceived disrespect. But what we have to think about how do we create psychological safety? Even if you are a high performer, if you are not treating people right, we need to help you move to a place where your humor is appreciated.
 Candor. Everyone wants more candor. If I were to show you my slide, there would be a burning plane behind me because NASA did research that said commercial airline pilots in a simulator that gave them a crisis, there were three outcomes. One, the captain took control of the plane and crashed it. Two, the captain said, “Crew, I need some help.” Everyone contributed, shared information, and worked together. The plane landed safely. The third one was the interesting one. The captain said, “Help me!” The crew said, “You got this.” They crashed almost as often as the first one. Why? Because the captain created an environment where candor was not appreciated. What happens in our organizations if we are not open to candor? What are we not learning about?
 The last piece is attention. What are we focused on? How many times have you told your child, “Don’t spill the milk?” What happened?
 Hugh: Spill the milk.
 John: When we tell people, “Stop complaining. Stop smoking. Stop fighting.” they don’t hear stop. The brain doesn’t hear stop. Let’s focus on what we want. Those four things are what we need for good communication.
 Hugh: Don’t be late to the meeting. Those four are clarity of message-
 John: Clarity, respect, candor, attention.
 Hugh: John, a lot of good sound bites. You are so well-read. I love this thing about the clarity of the dog. A guy goes up to an intersection in Denver to a guy with a dog and says, “Does your dog bite?” The guy says, “No.” He reaches down to pet the dog, and the dog takes a big chunk out of his arm. He said to the guy, “I thought you said your dog doesn’t bite.” The guy says, “That’s not my dog.” It’s an old joke, but it’s a good example of what you’re talking about. We are assuming that’s his dog because it’s standing next to him.
 We talk about how leaders set up problems. Then we make them worse. This candor and autocratic leadership is not what we do. Thank you for this.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 Before Russell closes out this really helpful interview, what thought do you want to leave with people today?
 John: I thought in preparation for this. I talked to a couple of colleagues who are active in the nonprofit community. What they shared with me is one of the big stressors for nonprofits is resiliency. They are overstressed, under-resourced, struggling against how do we deliver value to our constituents? I thought what would be helpful to them is to acknowledge the stress is there. Leaders paper over the stress or frustration. Until we admit there is something there, we can’t deal with it. If we don’t admit it, our team is looking to us and thinking there is something you’re not telling us. So acknowledge it.
 Have a little bit of grace. We are all doing the best we can. Everybody is doing something for their own reasons. Let’s get clear about what’s going on.
 Be accountable to yourself and to others. When everybody is doing what they are supposed to do, and I don’t have to pick up after you and you don’t have to pick up after me, there is less stress in the organization.
 Clarity of values, beliefs, and behaviors. Making sure we all agree what we want to do to serve our organization and our constituents.
 Appreciation of ourselves and others. We go from day to day to day, from win to win to win, and we don’t stop and celebrate. Celebrate the things you have done well.
 This has been a lot of fun.
 Russell: Thank you very much, John. I appreciate that. It’s been an enlightening conversation. Always remember that honesty without compassion is brutality. How we talk to each other and work with each other is critical inside so we can serve the audiences we can serve.
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>The 45 Minute Business Breakthrough Creating More Income<br> with John Gies</strong></h1> <p>After more than two decades in corporate, <strong>John Gies </strong>heard a potential client say that $400,000 tax free was not worth his time. John knew then that he wanted to work where he could make a difference. Over the next several years he gained his Coach Certification, He has taught and coached organizations around the country and he now works with small business owners and non-profit organizations to help them create the income they need to thrive.</p> <p>John's personal live vision is a world where people are inspired to leverage their power and influence to contribute to a more sustainable and positive workplace.</p> <p> </p> Read the Interview <p><strong>[Due to a video issue, the beginning of interview is lost. Transcript begins when video was restored.]</strong></p> <p><strong>John Gies:</strong> A communication coach, that transitioned from- I see your face. Was there a question there? <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> No, I love that story. Go ahead. I’m excited about that.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> When I left, what I wanted to do is I tried to look at other companies or other industries. The roads seemed to be closed. I said, What do I like doing? I love speaking in front of an audience. I love training and mentoring my teams. I love facilitating that conversation around the table where we’ve got different interests, maybe sales, operations, and technology trying to create a common vision, and trying to get to that with all those different points of view. I said, Why don’t I become a coach and a trainer?</p> <p>I went to work with a company. I got a chance to do some teaching and coaching across North America and Europe around sales, sales training, presentation skills, negotiation skills. Hugh, I hate to sound stereotypical, but stereotypes do exist. The Brits were almost on time, the Germans were early all the time, the French and the Italians showed up when they wanted to show up. It was an interesting experience. The Americans unfortunately were the ones who said, “We’re doing great. We don’t need any help.” It was an interesting experience for me.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a stereotype, but it’s sad, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> It is. Yet it sounds something about us, right? Stereotypes are stereotypes in some cases. His name is going to escape me. Someone once said, “If you hear a cliché, look to the truth in the cliché. There is probably something in there that led to the cliché.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Isn’t that why they are clichés?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> Right. While I was working with them, when they had lots of clients, I was busy. When they didn’t have clients, I wasn’t busy, so I decided to embark on my own. Today, I work with organizations with what I call a wholehearted approach to business. It’s not a name that you often think of when you think about business. But wholehearted is three pillars. There is the profit/revenue/money. I used to work with a nonprofit healthcare executive, who I will call Sister Mary. She said, “People come to me all the time and ask why we don’t provide this for free.” Her response was, “If there is no money, there’s no mission.” It’s really making sure that we have the money to fulfill our mission.</p> <p>Then there is leadership. Self leadership starts. If we can’t manage ourselves, we can’t manage other people.</p> <p>Hey, Russell.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Greetings.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> Then it’s the impact we have. Same impact we have on our people, our clientele, our community, the environment, the whole thing. That’s three pillars.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, there is some background noise, so I muted you. You will have to unmute yourself when you come on. He is putting on his headset.</p> <p>John, I want to get those three points. Those went by fast. Let’s capture those bullet points.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> There is profit. Whether we are in a nonprofit, a small business, or a big business, we can’t fulfill our mission without money. People rely upon us to be here in the long haul. It’s not just a dream to serve. We have to create the sustainability for our future.</p> <p>There is leadership. Leadership starts with self-leadership before we can lead others. I can share with you what I mean about that. When I think of one place that leadership is the weakest, it tends to be ourselves.</p> <p>The third pillar is impact. What impact are we having on our clients, customers, employees, communities, and stakeholders?</p> <p>I was really influenced by a book called <em>Firms of Endearment.</em> It’s a good-to-great comparison of stakeholder organizations versus shareholder organizations. Stakeholders are employees, vendors, the community, the environment, and shareholders. They outperform the S&amp;P by 16X. They outperform the good-to-great companies by a factor of 10X. This lasted even through the Great Recession we just went through. For me, it’s how we take care of all the people in our organizations instead of just focusing on one limited subset of our stakeholders.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. We teach those very same things. But it’s good to have you on here because people don’t listen to us. We’re so much in sync with that. John Maxwell in his 21 irrefutable laws of leadership has the law of the lid. You hit the ceiling of the lid, and your organization can’t progress any further than your ability to lead. That is true over and over. Our boards, our teams, our cultures are a reflection of our leadership.</p> <p>You may or may not know I am a musical conductor. What they see is what I get. What I practice in real life as a conductor works in the board room, works with the staff, works with the volunteers. It really doesn’t matter where we’re leading; the concepts are the same.</p> <p>Russell is coming in from a remote location. He was trying to find a connection last we spoke. Russell is the one who connected with you and suggested you be our guest today. I have looked over your website. It’s good stuff with some nice design. I am impressed with what you do. Thanks to Russell for finding you and finding the synergy.</p> <p>One thing you said was about the mindset. Thinking about the profit, leadership, and impact, and the stakeholders. [Audio issue]</p> <p>Clergy, people like that. Maybe even major donors. If you want to get money, you want to make sure you demonstrate impact. We want to see a difference. [Video freeze]</p> <p>Did I lose you? I’m here. Talk about that a minute, and where that fits into your thinking, how people misperceive profit, how people misperceive leadership. Can you hear me? I think he’s frozen. Maybe, we’re having a technical issue today, folks. So maybe we’ll get back together. John, he showed up over there. We seem to be having some technical issues. John, your video dropped out. There you are. Russell? Same neck of the woods as him. Is there an internet outage out there?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I am downtown preparing for the GlobalMindED event. We have leaders here, global-minded. It’s a nonprofit that provides services to help first-generation college students connect with employers. Very big event coming up here. Starting tomorrow. It will be running through Friday. That’s where I’m at. Helping with that, looking to set up interviews with leaders and coverage of the event so we have things to talk about.</p> <p>Hopefully, John is back with us. He has done a lot of work. He started out with healthcare organizations and started seeing some leadership challenges around that. He has done a lot of work and worked with a lot of organizations here in the Denver area to deal with some of the bottlenecks you experience with leadership. When those bottlenecks are prevalent, you can run into issues with funding. He wrote a book about that. That is one thing I want to ask him about later and have folks get access to that. It’s a very good book.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We did a teaser about the book. We haven’t told anybody about it yet. John, before the technology devil came in here and ate up your feed, I was talking about the misconception of the word “profit” with nonprofits, and how boards have gotten into a negative groove. Do you want to talk about that a minute? Then I will hand it over to Russell, who is the one with the real tough questions.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> Great. Yeah. If I understand you, the question is profit versus nonprofit? It’s interesting. Russell did this for a long time. There really is no difference. If there is no money, there is no mission. We have to generate enough profit, retained earnings, income, whatever you want to call it, so we can redistribute it. I often encounter both in the corporate world from healthcare providers who were nonprofit, and nonprofits I have volunteered with over the years, that money is not the big thing. It’s all about service. It’s all about serving the customer, the patients, our clientele. If you can’t keep the lights on, you can’t deliver any service. I feel like I’m rambling a bit. This is where my wholeheartedness comes from.</p> <p>If you look at the way businesses are being structured today, more and more of them are being structured to deliver a different kind of value than just the bottom line. There are benefit corporations. There are LLCs that are for-profits embedded within nonprofits. There is a whole host of ways we can use our work, I have air quotes up there, to do good in the world. I think it was Kahlil Gibran who said, “Work is love made visible.” Regardless of what we’re doing, we should be able to bring love into the world, or wholeheartedness, even at a profit.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We generate income because we generate value. Russell has helpful observations and questions. I’m going to park for a minute and let him participate. Thank you, Russ for being here. I know it was a challenge getting on today.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thanks. It’s good to be here. I know John is an amazing person. I am glad I met you. One of the things that you and I talked about over coffee was the notion of value, and how that is being redefined today. Folks that are running businesses to make a profit often talk in terms of value. It seems to be a word that nonprofit leaders haven’t wrapped their arms around yet. Even if they do, some of the team may not be aware of what exactly is value. How do you ramp up those discussions when you are talking to nonprofit organizations in terms of speaking to value and what that means to the different audiences they serve?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> What a great question. Nonprofits deliver such value. Whether it’s providing a roof over our heads, food and shelter. They look and say, “That’s what we are giving to our clientele, people who need that value.” They’re also delivering value to the donors and people who are fundraisers. I met with a young man who moved here from D.C. His whole background is in philanthropy.</p> <p>If I’m a donor, the example I was thinking through on this is do you remember Sally Struthers and the Feed the Children campaign from years ago? She would come on TV and see all these images of hungry children. We would make a donation. We got a letter from that child. We are in relationship to that child. Now there is this warm, fuzzy feeling of, I, as a donor, am getting real value from that donation in my heart.</p> <p>What happens for a lot of us today is we don’t think about how we’re delivering value to all of our stakeholders, be they fundraisers, donors, clientele, you have different kinds of value to each one of them. For a donor, one of the big questions donors all have is, “If I give you money, will it go to the end user, or will it go to administrative costs?” There are a whole host of people who are doing valuations and rankings around that. How can I pluck John’s heartstring? How can I pluck Russell’s heartstrings?</p> <p>A friend of mine had a daughter who came into the world with a lot of physical challenges. In Children’s Hospital for years. Her mom was in and out. If I deliver a message to her that talks about children and supporting people while they are waiting for a child to come out of the hospital, that is delivering value to me because it sings and resonates with me. Does that make sense?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s the trick. That’s the challenge a lot of for-purpose enterprises (as we prefer to call them, a term given to us by one of our guests). That is the challenge. You have multiple audiences. Value is not only something that has to be quantified in material terms. It’s different for every audience. The way that we relate to each other is through stories. People are discovering that. The big question is what is your story? Different people have different metrics, depending on their perspective. How important is it to have ways to measure what is valuable? How do you help nonprofits navigate that when they have these multiple audiences? How do you help them navigate figuring out what the message is for each audience?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> Really good question. When I share measurements, I think to my friend Annette, who is a good evaluator, who does research to quantify numbers and cents. When you think about a sentence or a paragraph or a story, how do you measure the ROI? What is the equation? Actually, there is a lady by the name of Nancy Duarte, who has mapped a really good storyteller. She took Martin Luther King’s “I Had a Dream” speech, and mapped the structure of the speech with its peaks and valleys to lead to the enrollment of the audience in his message.</p> <p>To answer your question, sometimes the impact is emotion. Even though we are driven by our spreadsheets in business, those are only to back up the emotional decisions we have already made. Working with a nonprofit, when we think about the donor, we have to think about what emotions we touch on. If I am talking to a philanthropist or a fund, like The Knight Foundation, what is the emotion or feeling I want them to feel about what they’re going to do for us? When I am trying to pull people off the streets as clients into my organization, how do I want them to feel? What I find most of us do is we run, run, run. And we don’t stop to think about the value. It’s not always what we think it is. What I counsel my clients on is it’s not putting food in someone’s hands. It’s answering a question about the concern of who is giving them the food.</p> <p>I’ll give you an example. Most painting contractors think they are hired to paint the house. They will tell the consumer, “We do great painting.” The reality is, the consumer is thinking, I’d like to have my house painted, but how do I know that painter will be on time, done on time, and won’t leave a mess? We have to answer the questions behind the question to call those, whether it’s a donor, a fundraiser, the clientele, or the public because the public can be very strong advocates for our for-purpose organizations.</p> <p>Great word choice by the way. I’m bouncing a bit, but that changes the whole framework of how you think about the organization. There is the nonprofit and the for-purpose. There is a withdrawal and an engagement. Good choice of words there.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I’d like to go back to the statement of people looking at how you spend the money. I think we have seen some perception problems with the structure of an organization. A lot of people want to write checks for programs, but they don’t necessarily want to pay the nonprofit’s rent. You have to have a structure to deliver a program. But if you are running the organization delivering the programs, you have to be efficient. You have to be good stewards of the resources entrusted to you. Talk about some of the things you do when working with organizations of any stature to navigate that.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> When you say stewardship, are you talking about attracting money? Are you talking about managing expenses?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Taking care of the money entrusted to you. Making the best use of it and maximizing value with it. Taking good care of it.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> A great question. Years and years ago, this will surprise you. I ran into a nonprofit collection agency. This was an organization embedded within another organization. Their money was to support the organization they were embedded in. For them, they could have really good expenses and really nice cars and really great lifestyles, but a lot of that wasn’t coming back to what was originally meant for.</p> <p>I contrast that with the man who I was telling you about earlier who sits on the board of a nonprofit. Someone came in and said, “We are getting ready to do our new benefits. We want to have a nine-month maternity leave. We want to have 35 days of PTO.” He said, “Wait a minute. How can we do that? That is stealing from our organization and our constituents.”</p> <p>The easy answer for you is the mindset. What are we really here to do? Are we here to serve, or are we here to take? My experience is the more we deliver into the world, the more we give, the more we receive in return without having to strive for that.</p> <p>The way I work with most of my customers is to help them attract the stakeholders they need. What prompted our conversation was this book, <em>The 45 Minute Business Breakthrough.</em> What that is about is to get leads. How do I get people who are interested in coming to my organization, whether it’s a client or a donor? We will often think, They will find us. It’s not who you know; it’s who knows you. We have to craft a message that resonates with those people.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> John, hold that book up again. Remember my age and mental condition. Tell us about the book, John.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> It’s called <em>The 45 Minute Business Breakthrough.</em> It’s how to find revenue for your business in 45 minutes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> 45 minutes?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What takes so long? That’s pretty fast. That got my attention.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> It’s simple. Think about the real estate agent who tells you, “I sell real estate, commercial and residential, up and down the range.” Here in Denver, there are 20,000 real estate agents. Contrast that to the one who says, “I help millennials find the loft of their dreams in downtown Denver.” Even though I am not a millennial, I am far past the millennial stage, I will remember that message. When I hear someone say they are looking for a loft, I can make the hook.</p> <p>If you ask yourself, What would that do for my business? You can find money really fast. When you talk about how do I make an offer that is so compelling that I can come into relationship with you? Maybe it’s I sign up for your newsletter. I hear stories about the organization how you are changing lives. When it comes time to write a check, I am more likely to write a check.</p> <p>There is an organization I do some work with here called Goodwill to Work. I get to work with high school students as they are preparing to enter the work force: mock interviews, reviewing portfolios, reviewing resumes. It gives me great faith in the future of ourselves. When they come looking for money, I am more open to that because I am invested in that.</p> <p>It’s helping the business owner, to answer your question, look at the five areas that drive 80% of their growth. It’s leads, how to turn leads into customers, how to create an offer that gives more value so they are willing to spend more money with me, and quit discounting. You have to sell more of the product to get the same.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a correlation here. We talk about selling to churches. Churches say, “We don’t sell.” Then what is evangelism? I talk to generic nonprofits about business models. No, we are a nonprofit. People are supposed to give everything. That does not mean you can beat up your employees. That is why the burnout rate is about 50% with executive directors. You are moving into the mindset. It’s a social entrepreneurial mindset.</p> <p>You talked about businesses having a triple bottom line. I think nonprofits should have multiple bottom lines. One of them should be retained earnings. Russell, why don’t you weigh in on this? You used to work for an agency who had three letters. It’s about where the money goes. We need another number for profit, and we need another way to look at accounting so overhead is really clear. Overhead goes to the people we serve. The words for profit are uncomfortable.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> When people in our circles call it “surplus,” but the bottom line is you have to bring in more than you push out. If you bring in more than you push out, you become what is known as sustainable. Operating with a surplus is important because you have to be prepared for all types of contingencies. There are things that happen. Mother Nature, for example. You have fires, floods, hurricanes, different events that impact different businesses that impact the nonprofits on the ground as well. It’s important to operate at that surplus. When it comes to overhead, which is everything that isn’t directly poured into the services, people think of that in terms of costs versus an investment. If it’s an investment, you get a good return on that. That means the management is taking care of the assets. They are providing superior service. They are effective and efficient at keeping costs under control. But you still have that structure there so you can go out and create more impact, as it were. The impact is in the eyes and ears of the beholders. I know John has heard this multiple times.</p> <p>John, you deal with it in for-profits and nonprofits when it comes to talking about impact. What is your experience with that word? Do you find that it is overused or misused? How do you help people frame that in a way that is balanced?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> I play with the word “balance.” If there is a balance, we are going to disrupt it. It’s more how do we create harmony around it? Impact is in the eyes of the beholder. Again, it’s about- I find this with myself often. I get up, sit down at my desk, and start working. When I get done, I have done a lot, and think about what impact I actually have. The first step is to slow down. As Stephen Covey said, “What is the end in mind?” What impact do I want to have?</p> <p>One client recently, the impact she wanted to have was more visibility in her organization. If that’s what I want to have, if that’s my end in mind, how do I have to make you feel to get that visibility? Now that I know those two questions, I can ask myself, “Who do I have to be to bring it?”</p> <p>In terms of messaging, what do I want them to experience? A great example. I had a customer the other day tell me. We often think about painting as putting a coating on the wall. For this company, it is a customer experience. The experience that you and I as a homeowner experience for you painting.</p> <p>In the case of the Rocky Mountain Microfinance Institute, what impact do they have on their small business owners as they compete in a 12-week boot camp for a microloan? The answer is they get 95% of their loans are repaid. Those companies are still in business years later. Every time I go, there is someone who would not have gotten a job in the corporate world who has created a successful business because they went through a 12-week boot camp to learn basic kinds of things. The impact is how are they feeling? What are the net results? It’s all of that. Does that answer your question?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That does, yes. For anybody who is out there making a difference, there are all these measures. How people measure things is critical. It’s getting out there, being of service, and doing that better than others efficiently and effectively as you possibly can. There are a lot of tools that leaders need to have in order to drive value, in order to grow as an organization. What are the most basic tools that you give your clients when you start working with them initially? Are there some key basics that are missing in the large quantity? Or some things that leaders overlook? In that sense, what are some of the things that you find nonprofit leaders overlook more frequently than not? <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>John:</strong> Great question. I think there are two big opportunities, whatever your work is. The first one is really getting clear and planting your flag on who you serve. Being clear that we are in this to serve children, sick children, healthy children, starving children, whatever the service is. And then nobody else. We all think we can serve everybody. We want to serve all sorts of people. Until we plant the flag and say this is who we serve, how we serve, and why we serve, we are noise. Russell, you know this because you’re in Denver. There are 11,000 nonprofits in the Denver/Boulder community. Many of them are duplicating services. It’s noise in the marketplace. How do they stand out? Planting the flag, being clear, and saying, “I am for the 10% that this resonates with.” Because then they will find us. We will get some of the other people who will be in that outer circle who will be attracted to us. We have to call our tribe to us. From the business standpoint, that is the biggest thing. I get this. I want to serve everybody, too. We have to get clear on who we serve, how we serve, and why we serve.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The idea of niching down and picking a category is frightening for both business owners and nonprofit leaders. I know I’ve had movement within my own business of who do you serve, will there be scarcity. I think scarcity thinking is terrible for the mindset of an entrepreneur regardless of the tax status of the organization he/she runs. How do you have that conversation with people who may be apprehensive about the idea of niching down and being more focused and targeted?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> It’s history. It’s experience. I’m working with a company right now. They have been doing Groupons to call in their clientele. I finally got him to stop that because what he would get is people coming in looking for the discount all the time, but they weren’t coming back to purchase more. He recognized that is not the clientele he wants to serve. He wants to serve the people who really care about what he delivers. When he gets one of them, they don’t question his cost. They know he can trust him, he will deliver the service, and they will walk away with value.</p> <p>You have to ask people to step out on faith and try it. I have yet to have someone who tries it fail at it. I just had this conversation with a lady at a digital marketing firm this morning. She said, “Sometimes I just have to have faith. I don’t have to worry about this deal or that donor or that foundation. I have to have faith that if I serve, I will be rewarded. It took me until I was in my forties to realize that my middle name is Faith. Faith plays a role in all of this.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It does. John, you talked earlier about going to the bottom for the price. We tend to race to the bottom because we think we have to have the lowest price to attract people. There is a similar model with nonprofits. We have this money shadow. We don’t want to talk about money, and we don’t want to ask for money. It’s reframing the whole conversation about what you said earlier about value. What we’re talking about is value. Money is an exchange. We have to pay the rent. We have to pay the salaries of those good people we employ. Talk about this thing with money. Do you see what I’m talking about? Is there a similarity with entrepreneurs looking at everyone else and pricing themselves under it? That’s not a good way to do it. Nonprofits are asking for too little money.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> I lost your audio there. It’s a good question. What I find- I grew up in sales. I’m afraid to ask for more because I was afraid I was going to hear no. As a nonprofit, if I’m asking for donations, I don’t want to hear no. Nobody wants to hear no because they are afraid of being outcast. I wrote this on a blog post not too recently. I came to a realization. I was on my way to a meeting with someone to give a presentation, and I had this voice in my head say, “Who are you? Who do you think you are?” I was in the presentation watching the audience, and I saw a couple of people on their phones. “Oh my God. They’re not paying attention to me. I’ve lost them.” I got some of the highest marks I’ve ever had for a delivery. I have come to the conclusion that I want to have that voice say, “Who are you? This is not your comfort zone.” on my shoulder because I know I’m doing the work that will deliver value to my organization.</p> <p>I think to get to your question of how we get past that fear of asking for money or undervaluing ourselves, we step out of our comfort zone and realize the value that we bring. I have yet to have an experience where I have said, “I can step into this, even though I don’t know where it’s going to go.” that hasn’t delivered value. All too often, we think if we don’t know exactly how it’s going to happen, we don’t want to step into it because we are afraid it might go wrong.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Life begins outside of the comfort zone.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> It really does. I was teaching a class one time. It was very dependent on a certain program running just the right way. About 20% of the class got an update from Microsoft that eliminated that functionality. What am I going to do? We’ll get to it. We’ll talk about it. Stay away from me. Get feedback from my tech team. Keep teaching. It was some of the highest reviews I’d ever gotten. They’ve asked me back several times. I want to create something going wrong in the presentation just so that there is that kind of result.</p> <p>When we get out of our comfort zone and into that place where it’s not working exactly right, we become more present. We become more focused on what we want to deliver to our audience, whether it’s one or many.</p> <p>One of the things I wanted to come back to, you asked me earlier about one of the biggest things that for-purpose or for-profits or anybody struggles with. I shared with you that niching idea.</p> <p>The other piece is more personal. It’s self-accountability. We talked earlier about self-leadership. Many of us are more than willing to hold anybody accountable for what they are supposed to do. We have meetings around it. We have metrics to race for it. But the thing that we’re not accountable to is our own self. The #1 appointment we break on our calendar is the one we set with ourselves. I might sit down and say, I need to plan my budget for next quarter. But if the phone rings, I will pick up the phone instead of working on that budget. Or I might decide I want to lose ten pounds. I will quit eating French fries and start running. But then it snows. When we don’t hold ourselves accountable, we can’t hold other people accountable. When we start breaking promises to ourselves, we start disbelieving ourselves when we say we can get something done. So part of it is keeping promises to ourselves.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s interesting that people make commitments to others they won’t make to themselves. I think that is a human nature thing. That plays into what’s best. There are a number of people who talk about self-care and taking care of yourself. One of the things about leader burnout is people drive themselves far too much and don’t necessarily take care of themselves. When you come across executives you’re working with, a lot of times they are burned out, what is the first thing you tell them as far as taking care of themselves? How do you go about finding out if that’s the problem they do have? <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>John:</strong> It’s about creating psychological safety. We can do this in our own organizations and families. We want to create safety so that people can be and bring their whole self into the conversation. I am a child of the ‘80s. Greed is good. We have to put up a front. If you remember the shoulder pads from back then, we literally put our armor on. But the reality is when we can bring our whole self into a conversation, we don’t have to carry the stress of trying to be someone we’re not. The first part is bringing psychological safety. People will begin to open up and tell us what is really wrong in our lives.</p> <p>I tell people when they are working with me, “There is a lot to do, but you have to schedule two hours a week for you to sit back and think about, “What do I want to do this week? What happened last week? What did I get done? Celebrate! What did I not get done? What will I do to move that forward?” All too often, we run from task to task to task to task. We don’t slow down to shift our state to move into the next meeting. I work with a lot of people who have nine meetings a day. That’s incredible. When do you get your work done? I see three.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’re coming to the last minutes of our interview. I want to give you a few minutes to talk about one of the most important topics: communication. In 32 years of working with organizations, there has never been an organization who brought it up as one of the top topics. In a quick overview, I want you to talk about why that is significant in the work that you do. Then I will have a sponsor message before giving it back to you for a closing thought. Then Russell will end this interview. John, there are a lot of good sound bites, I must say. John, what is missing in communication? What do we need to do to make it better?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> There are four things we need for effective communication. One is clarity. If we are not clear with our message, I ran across this the other night. It’s from Yo-Yo Ma. If we don’t have clarity of message, we are just noise. What happens all too often is I tell you I’m looking for a dog. You will tell me, “You should get a Labrador.” Russell will tell me that I need a terrier. Someone else will tell me a shepherd. I am allergic to most dogs, and my wife doesn’t want anything over 20 pounds. If I had been clear in what I was looking for, you would be clear in your response. Slowing down to get clear.</p> <p>Two is respect. Every organization you and I work with has respect in their manual, their mission statement, or their vision statement. Yet 94% of the workforce reports having uncivil behavior in the last year. 54% in the last month. This comes from <em>Harvard Business Review.</em> What does disrespect look like? It might not be holding the door open. It might be perceived disrespect. But what we have to think about how do we create psychological safety? Even if you are a high performer, if you are not treating people right, we need to help you move to a place where your humor is appreciated.</p> <p>Candor. Everyone wants more candor. If I were to show you my slide, there would be a burning plane behind me because NASA did research that said commercial airline pilots in a simulator that gave them a crisis, there were three outcomes. One, the captain took control of the plane and crashed it. Two, the captain said, “Crew, I need some help.” Everyone contributed, shared information, and worked together. The plane landed safely. The third one was the interesting one. The captain said, “Help me!” The crew said, “You got this.” They crashed almost as often as the first one. Why? Because the captain created an environment where candor was not appreciated. What happens in our organizations if we are not open to candor? What are we not learning about?</p> <p>The last piece is attention. What are we focused on? How many times have you told your child, “Don’t spill the milk?” What happened?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Spill the milk.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> When we tell people, “Stop complaining. Stop smoking. Stop fighting.” they don’t hear stop. The brain doesn’t hear stop. Let’s focus on what we want. Those four things are what we need for good communication.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Don’t be late to the meeting. Those four are clarity of message-</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> Clarity, respect, candor, attention.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> John, a lot of good sound bites. You are so well-read. I love this thing about the clarity of the dog. A guy goes up to an intersection in Denver to a guy with a dog and says, “Does your dog bite?” The guy says, “No.” He reaches down to pet the dog, and the dog takes a big chunk out of his arm. He said to the guy, “I thought you said your dog doesn’t bite.” The guy says, “That’s not my dog.” It’s an old joke, but it’s a good example of what you’re talking about. We are assuming that’s his dog because it’s standing next to him.</p> <p>We talk about how leaders set up problems. Then we make them worse. This candor and autocratic leadership is not what we do. Thank you for this.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from Wordsprint*</p> <p>Before Russell closes out this really helpful interview, what thought do you want to leave with people today?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> I thought in preparation for this. I talked to a couple of colleagues who are active in the nonprofit community. What they shared with me is one of the big stressors for nonprofits is resiliency. They are overstressed, under-resourced, struggling against how do we deliver value to our constituents? I thought what would be helpful to them is to acknowledge the stress is there. Leaders paper over the stress or frustration. Until we admit there is something there, we can’t deal with it. If we don’t admit it, our team is looking to us and thinking there is something you’re not telling us. So acknowledge it.</p> <p>Have a little bit of grace. We are all doing the best we can. Everybody is doing something for their own reasons. Let’s get clear about what’s going on.</p> <p>Be accountable to yourself and to others. When everybody is doing what they are supposed to do, and I don’t have to pick up after you and you don’t have to pick up after me, there is less stress in the organization.</p> <p>Clarity of values, beliefs, and behaviors. Making sure we all agree what we want to do to serve our organization and our constituents.</p> <p>Appreciation of ourselves and others. We go from day to day to day, from win to win to win, and we don’t stop and celebrate. Celebrate the things you have done well.</p> <p>This has been a lot of fun.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thank you very much, John. I appreciate that. It’s been an enlightening conversation. Always remember that honesty without compassion is brutality. How we talk to each other and work with each other is critical inside so we can serve the audiences we can serve.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Why horses are perfect PTSD co-therapists…</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/why-horses-are-perfect-ptsd-co-therapists</link>
      <description>Why horses are perfect PTSD co-therapists......Join together in advocating for effective trauma therapy with Michele Fisher

 Michele Fisher is a Univ. of Michigan educated ( early childhood development) and 16-year CASA volunteer advocating in court and in life for traumatized children in our foster care system. Ms. Fisher has made it her mission in life to connect changemakers with effective mental health offerings, to compromised populations. The impact of this groundbreaking work speaks to otherwise unattainable joy and functionality in the lives of traumatized Americans. The unconventional, yet proven effective, use of the horse as an active participant in the therapeutic process make this modality an unusual yet compelling area for exploration.
    
 Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Hi, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis again for this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. We have interviews with thought leaders every week. Russell, this is somebody you found today. How are you today, Russell?
 Russell Dennis: Greetings, salutations from sunny Aurora, Colorado, not far from Boulder, where our guest is today. My friend Michele Fisher, who runs a nonprofit that supports people through equine therapy. She is unique in that she raises money for herself, and she funds other projects. We’re going to find out a lot about her secrets and how she is able to juggle both hats and wear both hats and what she looks for, and to talk about how equine therapy is helping veterans and children all over Colorado.
 Hugh: Let’s jump into this. Michele, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell people a little bit about yourself.
 Michele Fisher: Thank you, Hugh. Thank you so much, Russ. I am a graduate of the University of Michigan, and my degree is in early childhood development. I am a teacher and have been a teacher and lover of education from the get-go. I decided at a very early age that I wanted to try to help children in a different way, not just through traditional education means by being a teacher. I became a CASA worker. It’s an acronym for Court Appointed Special Advocate. We are volunteers that are trained to work with foster children who have been abused and/or neglected. We help them in life. We actually become life coaches and advocates in court and in their family life for them. This showed me how there were many more opportunities to help not only one child at a time or one classroom at a time, but entire families and entire communities that were compromised or otherwise had survived some sort of trauma.
 When I lived in Lake Tahoe, I became certified in what was then called the NAHRA program, the North American Handicapped Riders’ Association. Today, it’s called PATH. It’s a particular version or modality of equine therapy that primarily addresses the needs of humans on the autism spectrum and also people who have cerebral palsy.
 As I married my two new loves, my equine therapy and my CASA work and education work with children, I realized that if there was enough money available for veterans that have PTSD and children who have been traumatized, we would be able to have a permanent impact upon the mental health in our society. As I became more and more involved in the mental health arena through my CASA work and also through the equine therapy work, I was struck and dumbfounded by how remarkably effective working with the horses was with people who were frankly quite emotionally ravaged and even physically ravaged in their lives.
 This became almost an obsession with me to find out why this connection was so different from other forms of traditional modalities and therapies when we are trying to help victims of trauma of all sorts try to live normal lives. I say “normal” knowing there is nothing normal. Joy-filled lives, trying to live lives with fulfillment and with absence of emotional and mental pain.
 I started to volunteer as a horse handler at various equine therapy barns around my area in Boulder, Longmont, Lafayette, Lewisville, Colorado. I learned there is an entire tribe of incredibly skilled, passionate, knowledgeable people who are doing this work, not only here in Colorado, which happens to be a hotbed of equine therapy, I’ve learned, but also all over the country and in eastern Europe as well. I started The Healing Hoof in order to raise money for people who couldn’t afford equine therapy in order to get the benefit of it.
 In that, I’ve also learned how to find the vibe of my tribe, which I think is a really important learning for executive directors and other individuals involved in nonprofit work. Whether you are awarding grants, receiving grants, or doing some mix of both, or whether you are not even involved in the grant world, but maybe you are accepting donations or sponsorships, no matter what means you are using to generate energy and create a new life for your nonprofit, I think it’s incredibly important to make sure that you find the right people. That is what I mean by find the vibe of your tribe.
 I’ll tell you a short story, an anecdote. I was a director of business development for a nonprofit in Lakewood for a while before I immersed myself fully into my own nonprofit. During that time, one of the very large mega oil producers in Weld County approached us and asked if they could partner with us in order to gain positive PR. Their philosophy was that because many folks in Colorado are opposed to fracking, and they work here and have to work with us—gee, did I just say something about my political opinions?—they have a hard time really getting community buy-in to what they’re doing. What they came to us for was to spend a lot of money in several communities on the I-25 corridor in the heart of Weld County, where the bulk of their operations exist, to build things like rec centers or community places where the community could come, and they would name it after themselves so that the community could see them as a more friendly player. At that company, we thought that was a great idea, and they were willing to pay us a great amount of money to do it.
 Fast forward to now marketing this nonprofit. I am speaking to all thought leaders in the nonprofit sector. As a marketer and a business development person, my mind went to, Wow, how many veterans and kids could I help with their checkbook? Maybe I should approach them to become a sponsor. I did my research, and I looked at the websites, and I dug deeper and deeper into their fiscal plans and all of the information I could garner from each of seven or eight of the larger to mid-size operators. What I found was that they are not my tribe. The reason they’re not my tribe is because of who they really are intrinsically and the way that they choose to present themselves to the community. I’m not saying this is true for all of the operators, but these large ones I did research on. What I found was deception. What I found was that they promised to show certain things or reveal certain things they really didn’t. Even though I probably could’ve gone down that path and gotten significant sponsorship dollars for my foundation, I decided not to because in the end, the only real support that we will get for our individual passions and for our work that we’re doing is from the people who are authentically attached to it passionately and in their hearts and souls, not just as a job each day.
 I tell that story because I think that as businesspeople and as responsible executive directors and volunteers and different kinds of people that work to make this world better on many different planes, sometimes we get lost in trying to raise money and making that the goal because it is paramount not only to our success but to our survival. Of course, we must keep our eye on that ball. But I ask for us today to open some space to consider being a little bit more selective and taking a long-term view in exchange for a shorter-term relationship that may end up working out for the short run, may get you some bad press or not. In the end, if it’s not really part of your vision and your mission and your heart, then I don’t believe it’s worth pursuing, even if it glitters a lot.
 Hugh: Michele, how long have you been doing The Healing Hoof foundation?  
 Michele: We started in 2013. We have really just begun to become vibrant and active. Life got in the way a little bit with me between then and now, which prevented me from really going full force into this. Now, I am able to do that. We’re having our first event this summer, August 11 in Longmont. We are going to have a really fun event with a very well-known a capella rock band called Face Vocal Band, which will be our headline entertainment there. We are looking to make a splash into the Denver market with lots of great grant funding and lots of opportunity for veterans and kids and people who need to address issues relative to their trauma.
 Hugh: Russell, you’ve been carefully paying attention. I’m sure you have some questions for Michele.
 Russell: We met fairly recently, and we have been working together to move things forward. The ability to build relationships that help you raise money and fund projects takes a bit of juggling. What I wanted to ask Michele is what are three things that you look for in collaborative partners, whether you are getting them to write you a check or you are writing them a check?
 Michele: The first thing I look for is authenticity. Are they really who they purport to be? Are they really doing the work they say they’re doing? Are they passionate? Are they involved? Are they engaged? That is the most important thing: their dedication from inside to the work that they’re doing.
 Then I look for their wherewithal. Are they emotionally balanced? Are they able to carry forward this work? Are they able to do the work they set out to do and accomplish their goals? Are they well balanced and able to be a leader?
 The third thing would be for whom are they the sphere of influence? When I start to gather my tribe of those I want to help and those I would like to help me help them, I want to make sure that we have the same spirit of moving money. I’m dedicated to moving the money that I receive so that it can work. Whereas I appreciate people who make a lot of money and have a lot of resources. If they are not willing to move these resources and allow them to be a part of the commerce of healing and making our world better, then they are not a good partner for me. And they need to smile.
 Russell: You don’t smile very much.
 Michele: Not much.
 Russell: With that said, looking for these things in the collaborative partners, there are things that you do that make you successful. What would you say are the three key ingredients to your success, both before and after you started this project and this journey?
 Michele: #1, I am willing to say no. That is a difficult thing, especially for those of us in this world who have inherently large hearts and say yes too often around the table and then cry on the way home trying to figure out how to fulfill that promise. I think the ability to draw boundaries when it’s appropriate, to say no to the opportunities that are not good for everyone, and to recognize what is really a win-win for all of the people and animals involved.
 For example, one of our strong tenements is to fund barns and equine therapists who take excellent care of their horses, who don’t overuse the land, who try to use organic products and not a lot of chemicals. It’s not just the mental health of the child or the adult that we’re concerned about. We want to make sure that our horses are happy and healthy. They are co-therapists. They are important to us. They are sentient beings who we respect a great deal. That is part of what is very important to us, too. That does set us apart. There are some people who will do some equine therapy. Just come and pet my horse. Get on my horse and ride. There is a certain kind of therapy or equine experience associated with that, but we are pretty picky about who we fund. We fund therapists that are licensed and have experience. Depending on what you come to us with, what your maladies are, whether they’re physical, emotional, mental, or some combination will depend on which barns we might recommend for you or what type of equine therapy we suggest might be the most impactful for your particular issues you’re dealing with or way of life or concerns or experiences. Everything is individual.
 Russell: That is one of the hallmarks of effective collaboration when people come to you. Having that network of people and being willing to share the wealth so to speak. I know people who do certain types of therapies for certain types of people. We’re well aware of both strategy and collaboration here at SynerVision.
 One of the things that Beth Cantor, who is an expert at nonprofit social media, she wrote a book called The Healthy, Happy Nonprofit. She talks about the importance of taking care of yourself, which you emphasized here. How important is it for nonprofit leaders to take care of themselves in order to be effective at actually serving others? What would you say are the three most important things a nonprofit leader could do to take care of themselves so they are effective at helping other people?
 Michele: Russ, it’s not only important, it’s critical. One cannot be effective if they are not well cared for. There is a reason that the flight attendants tell us to put the oxygen masks on ourselves first. If we are not fully present, and our cup isn’t full, then we are not able to give to others fully, authentically, and give everything they truly need.
 I believe in two-hour massages. Not one-hour massages. After one hour, I’m just getting relaxed, and the Jello is just setting. Two-hour massages. Yes, it will cost a little more money, but it will go a lot further. Massages.
 Happiness. To do what really brings you joy, whether it’s dancing or singing or drinking a cup of coffee at six o’clock in the morning and watching the sun rise or climbing up on my horses at midnight when I can’t sleep or breathing or yoga or taking a walk or a bath or having a good argument or discussion or reading a book or knitting or sports. Whatever it is. Find out, like my good friend Cody Qualls from Face Vocal Band says, “What’s your jam?” Get your jam on. Your jam. I think that’s a really important thing to know about ourselves, and to give us permission to indulge in.
 If you have children, if you are involved in your work or extracurricular activities, or taking care of parents, we all need to fill ourselves up. There are some schools of thought that will have us believe that is a selfish act, or that it is not giving to take care of yourself first. We all have to negotiate that particular conversation and value amongst ourselves and the people we engage with. But there is nothing wrong with meeting your own needs. Eating healthy, great food. I have had people say to me, “I can’t afford to eat organic,” and they have the latest version of the newest iPhone. It depends on what you value. If you value your longevity, if you value what you have to give, you will be able to give it for a long time and to give much more quality in terms of your knowledge, wisdom, offering, service, or products if you take care of yourself. That is one thing. Get massages.
 Engage with people. Find your own personal tribe. Laugh with people. Cry with people. Engage. For me, this might not be for everyone, engage with animals. That to me is a big part of my own personal well-being. I know it’s not for everybody. But if you are a meow or a bark or a neigh, go do your neigh neigh. Find your neigh neigh. It might not be a horse.
 Russell: I can’t be of service to others unless I’m at my best. You are by trade a teacher from the University of Michigan. As a lifelong fan of the Ohio State Buckeyes, I never thought in a thousand years I would meet a Michigan Wolverine I like as much as I like you. We just connected and clicked on so many levels.
 You started your career. You have been working very closely for a long time with children. You chose to serve children. As a Court Appointed Special Advocate in three counties, you still are serving children at a high level. Talk a little bit about the therapy work that you’ve done with children and why horses are perfect for helping children through any challenges they have.
 Michele: Why children? Because children are our future. Children are our hope. Children represent the continuity of our very being and species. They are so magically delightful that when they honor me by allowing me to pick them up or care for them or laugh with them, it just touches my heart deeply. I find them to be so varied and open. They teach me so much. I learn so much from kids that adults are just kind of a little bit jaded or dead sometimes. It keeps me alive. It keeps me willing to be a little different and think of things in a different way.
 It also allows me to see the world literally from a different point of view. When you look at the world from a three-year-old’s view, and you are looking at mostly table legs or humans’ knees, it’s a very different way of looking at the world, and it gives me compassion for needing to work harder to look into people’s eyes and to be able to meet them on a deep level. Children allow me to do that and foster that for me. I think they bring life and honesty and joyfulness to most situations. That is what draws me to children. It makes me feel so great when I am still in touch with an 18-year-old child who I got as a CASA child when she was 18 months old out of a horrific situation, and today she is a pediatrician.
 Russell: That sense of possibility is impossible among children. They’re small. Talk a little bit about how being a Court Appointed Special Advocate played into you starting your own foundation. What we are talking about with PTSD is trauma at the highest level.
 Michele: So when I first became a CASA member, a lot of people would respond to the news by saying, “Oh my God, how could you do that work? I could never do that work. I love children so much, and I’m so sensitive to them.” I’m here to tell you that I can do the work because I love children so much. It hurts me to see what people do to children. Every single time, it breaks my heart. Even after 18 years—she’s not a pediatrician yet, she’s in school—after 18 years, I still cry. I still feel very deeply, but never in court, never in front of them. It gives me power, it empowers me because if a child can stand up and put one foot in front of the other after what they’ve experienced with so little resources and so little support, then who am I, this privileged white woman, to say that I can’t go out and raise money and help people and do what I know I can do? I find that strength in those cases. I find my wherewithal. I find that I can take on a tougher family. I can take on a gang member. I can work with these people. I’m not afraid anymore.
 What they have taught me is how to grit my teeth and get what I want. It was a message that my father taught me that they are reinforcing that has been valuable. Even when it looks like there is nothing, I don’t know if you know who David Pelzer is. A Boy Named It was the book he wrote; he was the spokesperson for CASA, as are Dr. Phil and his wife, Robin. But what they show us is how the human spirit knows no bounds and that if we will just reach out a little bit and give just a finger up, a hand up, an arm up, whatever we can afford to spread around, what blooms is so much greater than the small seed that we once planted. Now many of these children are leading productive, contributatory lives in society. I’m not going to say it; it would not be deserving to say just because of me. But I did play a role in their self-confidence, in bringing them hope, that there is an adult who will listen, and in learning to use resources. That keeps my engine going. There are plenty more children and people who are suffering that I can help through using my education, experience, mind, resources, and wherewithal to bring awareness to what they need. There are people who will help. We just have to ask the right people.
 Russell: This work is taking place with small children, with teenagers. Some have been in gangs, but they have experienced all of this trauma. City kids. Connectedness is important as far as reaching children. I’m sure a lot of our nonprofit leaders who watch here work with youth and children. Equine therapy is a unique, out-of-the-box, fairly new way of approaching working with these kids. Horses are very large animals.  
 Michele: Most of them.
 Russell: The sight of a horse, even for an adult, you look up and see this huge animal, they have experienced all of this trauma, and there is probably some fear going on around that. How do you ease the children and these young people you work with- Same thing could be with veterans that you work with. When people have experienced this trauma, there is a fear factor going on. How do you bridge that and let these folks know you’re safe here so that they can ease into actually building the relationship with the animal?
 Michele: Great question. I use the principles of an author by the name of Gavin de Becker. He protects one of the presidents. I don’t know if it’s the current president or Obama. He is also an author. He wrote the book The Gift of Fear. The principle is that fear is useful. Fear exists in us for a reason. It is to be paid attention to, not to be overridden, ignored, or otherwise bulldozed through.
 Your question is so wonderful. Why horses? How do we mitigate fear? Horses help us to mitigate fear. Not only by virtue of their size and maybe other people’s experiences or what people have heard about horses, they not only induce fear, but they also help us to bring our fears out and put them on the table. For example, no matter who the herd of horses that I pick, if I bring a client that has a boundaries problem, one of those horses is going to get up into her face and make that client deal with her boundaries. They know. They just know that what you’re feeling inside.
 Why fear? We use the fear as a therapeutic form to become aware of, to understand that these are feelings to name what that really is that you’re feeling, and to be able to talk about it and why. Where else in your life do you feel fear? How is this like other fearful situations? How is it different? There is a plethora of conversations that then ensue because we use trained therapists who not only take advantage of these situations, but they foster the discussion. They’re talented and skillful enough to recognize when a person is feeling fearful or trepidation, and move in and relieve it and talk about it, so that processing occurs. Once processing occurs, then healing can start to live there. You can plant a seed of healing.
 Horses are remarkable beings. They are extremely intuitive. That old adage: horses know you’re afraid, so pretend you’re not. The first half is true, and the second half just doesn’t work. If you’re afraid, the horse knows you’re afraid, so you might as well just stand there and say, “I’m scared,” or “Hey, it’s okay, buddy.” If you walk in with a lot of bravado and pretend you know what’s going on and go into the horse’s space, he/she will let you know. They won’t hurt you. But they will somehow recognize who you are and find a way to let you know that’s not okay. As we get managed in our behavior by the herd, there are lots of opportunities for us to talk about our own personal herds. Who are our relationships? We let our clients watch the herd interact. There they are in their families. Every single one of them can find their mother, father, boyfriend, little brother, someone to bring up issues that are yet not dealt with and still wreaking havoc with their joy.
 Horses do that. They have a very large nervous system. Just being around them will calm you. Some people just want to stand near them. Some people just take chairs and go in the stalls and breathe with them or listen to them eat. It’s very relaxing.
 There is a whole gamut of why horses work for certain people. The theme is that they do. Not every horse wants to be a therapy horse by the way. You can’t just pull over by the side of the road, jump into a corral, and make yourself feel better. It may work. But not every horse wants to engage. Not every horse wants to engage with people who are triggered, or triggered easily, or on medication, or going through withdrawal, or having some of the human experiences that we do. Bu the ones that are are all there. Often, they’ve had professional lives being competitive horses, hunters, jumpers, Western, reining horses, English, equitation on the flat. Many of them were very successful. They don’t have anything to prove. Now they’re like we are. They are in the time of their life when they are settled and ready to give back.
 Russell: Just looking out, there hasn’t been a lot of data collection on equine therapy and studies on how that helps people. You and I went to see some folks at the United Veterans’ Committee of Colorado. When you introduced yourself, people gravitated to you right away because the first words out of their mouths were, “This works.” Talk about some of what people who are exposed to this and who take on equine therapy, talk about some of the benefits and results you have been able to give people.
 Michele: Sure, thank you. One of the things that really stands out in my mind is their ability to cope. They have a toolbox now that they didn’t have before. I’m not saying it’s the only toolbox they have. It is one that they will always have and one that works every time. Because of that, they are more grounded. They are happier. They are easier to get along with. The children represent less behavior problems in school. They get along with their parents, foster parents, stepsiblings, and siblings much better than they used to. They are able to be more proactive in their own lives. They found a way to not just blow up. They have found coping mechanisms. They found the ability to recognize when they are having trouble. The ability to recognize and having a toolbox are two things that can really change people’s lives. Those are the kinds of things that we impart into their world, into their ability, their resources to be able to go to.
 Russell: One of the things, going back to our meeting with the veterans here in Colorado at UVC, that they spoke to, was the epidemic of veteran suicides. This has become a national issue. Although there has been a lot of awareness over the last four or five years certainly, the mental health profession has not really been able to make a significant dent in it. As a matter of fact, the first time I started hearing statistics seven or eight years ago, there were 18-20 veterans a day committing suicide. That is up to about 23 a day now. I know a lot of mental health resources have been put into that. A lot of people are doing work toward it. But we haven’t made a dent in it.
 With equine therapy being new, people might say, “I’ve tried some other things.” What would you talk to them about as far as: Are you a candidate? Are you someone who would benefit from equine therapy? Who does equine therapy help? Who is predisposed to getting better results? How would you handle that type of conversation? What are some of the things you would say to those folks who may be on the fence about trying it?  
 Michele: I would say jump over that fence and come on over. I don’t know if you know this, but I have a personal story with suicide. My husband committed suicide in 1999. My personal experience with it is part of what motivates me to really be involved with the veterans. The fact that I see it escalating and not decreasing is even more motivation to do it quickly and in a large way and to try and get involved from a legislative perspective and try to get equine therapy involved and try to get these men and women into groups that are where they belong and where the rubber meets the road in terms of what they’re dealing with and how we can help them to have less of it. I’m not saying we’re the panacea, but it is the best kind of therapy that I’ve ever been exposed to in terms of impact and the amount of joy that it allows people to feel in their lives for a longer period of time and in a deeper, meaningful, lasting way.
 Yes, suicide prevention is something that is very much part of our work. We take it very seriously. We have some people in our network who are specialists. Not only are they veterans, but they are also equine specialists. We feel like we’re a really good resource for the veterans. We really want to make an impact and help to reduce that number down to nothing, or at least single digits, in the next year or two if we can.
 Hugh: It’s an alarming number. I’ve seen it escalate. When we started out, I thought maybe she had a green screen image like me, but it kept moving. The horse that is grazing is right in the picture. This is from the ranch.
 I’m wondering, you’re really articulate. You’re really focused. You’re passionate about what you’re doing. What do you do for self-care as a leader? It’s not a straight line developing an organization. You’ve been through some life trauma yourself. How do you keep yourself not only on the cutting edge of what you’re doing, but balanced—you’ve set some boundaries as you mentioned—and growing as a leader? How do you care for yourself?
 Michele: I like to do workshops. I like to look for leaders who I admire and whom I would like to adopt some of their means of work. I go to different places and do workshops and educate myself. I further myself mentally and spiritually. I take time to expand, not only in terms of mental health and how we can help veterans and children, but also where I need to grow. I do therapy for myself. I invest in relationships and get a lot of feedback from people and take their advice. I actually ask people what areas need to be improved.
 As far as leadership, I like to go away with people. I like to go on things that are kind of like retreats or weekends and just focus on, or even have a lunch or spend time with other thought leaders in a relaxing atmosphere to really just share ideas and not pursue the agenda so that we can expand ourselves and be more elastic instead of just doing our work every single day. That is expected of us. How can we get bigger? How can we have new ideas and see things in different ways? I like to be involved with people in all different kinds of ways.
 Hugh: That’s a great answer. What do you think, Russell? That is a balanced approach to staying centered as a leader.
 Russell: A podcaster James Altucher, whose books I’ve been reading, talks about that. He talks about improving 1% a day. I don’t remember where he got that, but he said improving 1% a day helps him to get better. One of the things he does is write down 10 ideas every day. He says it’s the ideas that move people. Ideas move things forward. He writes down ideas. Not all 10 of them may be good. But getting into the practice of doing that helps you expand, helps you grow and shift into who you are.
 We’re big fans here at SynerVision of learning. We’re building toolkits all the time for people to come into the community and take advantage of. Leaders are readers. That might be a green screen, but Hugh reads a lot of books. He’s written some. Soon, we’re going to be talking about some of the books that are out there that we’ve read that some of our guests have written, and talk about some of the lessons we learned from them and some things we can apply to put to work for ourselves.
 Along that line, talk to us about some things that you’ve written and read that have been helpful to you on your journey in making a difference in the lives of other people.
 Michele: I think my go-to resource is the book by Dr. Charles Whitfield on boundaries. He might not even be with us anymore. He was in his 90s a while ago. It is a go-to place for me because no matter what walk of life you choose, and no matter what kind of people you surround yourself with, it’s important to be able to recognize what their boundaries are in order to maintain respectful relationships and boundaries that go deep and get intimate. It also talks from a psychological point of view why we need to be able to understand what our own personal boundaries are because it gives us room for our own mental health and our space to be able to stay emotionally fluid and healthy and available to be able to function and contribute as a human on the planet instead of taking away. I’m not saying people who are needy are taking away. I’m saying people who impose upon others and strip us of our dignity and our respective selves. That is one of the most important books I really like.
 Another great book is by the daughter of either H or R Block. Her name escapes me right now. Prince Charming Isn’t Coming. It’s a lovely book. I see you’re chuckling. It’s true. By the way, Prince Charming isn’t coming. I love that book because it really reinforces that we are responsible for ourselves, and that we can take responsibility no matter what our learnings previously or understandings have been. We can move on at whatever age to know who we are and to take care of our own needs. I love that message in that book.
 Another one would be Judith Durek, Circle of Stones. You could read this book in an hour. It’s a book about what your life would have been like if you had been offered all of the support from your tribe that you needed at every step of the way. If you were in the sweat lodge with all of your tribe members, and your elders were teaching you about how it is to be a man or a woman, instead of the kind of life that you led, what would that be like for you? It’s a wonderful springboard into what if. It allows us to fantasize about what we still could be. I really love that. She presents it in an easy-to-read, lightly anecdotal format.
 I think those would be the three go-to places.
 Another author I must talk about is Andrew Sam Newman. You must listen to his TED Talk. He writes children’s books. They are the best children’s books I’ve ever read. I majored in kiddie lit. I read a lot of children’s books. The reason they’re so good and so meaningful is because of the values that they impart and because of the way they set up reading time and the way they foster intimacy and create joy and love around reading. He writes just the greatest books. Whether you have children or not, you must familiarize yourself with him. He has a delightful soul.
 Hugh: You have a little sparkle in your eye when you talk about that. Michele, as we wrap up this good interview, lots of useful information, we like for people to tell their own stories because it’s encouragement for those who are starting out or for those who are stuck. You can make a pathway if you are determined to do it, but if you have a strategy and a team around you and a clear way of talking about your vision and why you should support it. We will give you a chance to share a closing thought, tip, or challenge. We have great leaders, but they need help to get them to where they need to be with it. You get to have the last word. Russell closes us out and says sayonara at the end.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 We close out this interview with you giving the last word to people. What thought do you want to leave people with?
 Michele: There are two things I would like to ask. First, I would like to say thank you for all of the work that you’re doing. The two things I’d like to ask are these. Today. I’d like to ask you to do two things today. 1) Ask for something you have previously been afraid to ask for. 2) Spontaneously help someone.
 I want to thank you so much for listening today. I want to let you know we appreciate all of the work you’re doing. Hope to see you August 11 in Lafayette. We’re at TheHealingHoof.org.
 Russell: Thank you, Michele. This has been a really great interview. It’s a pleasure working with you. I’m looking forward to continuing and making that impact here on the front range with the wonderful program you have. A lot of people out there.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 02 Jun 2019 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/78fb3f64-b329-11eb-9f0f-1f838b94a137/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Join together in advocating for effective trauma therapy with Michele Fisher</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Why horses are perfect PTSD co-therapists......Join together in advocating for effective trauma therapy with Michele Fisher

 Michele Fisher is a Univ. of Michigan educated ( early childhood development) and 16-year CASA volunteer advocating in court and in life for traumatized children in our foster care system. Ms. Fisher has made it her mission in life to connect changemakers with effective mental health offerings, to compromised populations. The impact of this groundbreaking work speaks to otherwise unattainable joy and functionality in the lives of traumatized Americans. The unconventional, yet proven effective, use of the horse as an active participant in the therapeutic process make this modality an unusual yet compelling area for exploration.
    
 Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Hi, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis again for this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. We have interviews with thought leaders every week. Russell, this is somebody you found today. How are you today, Russell?
 Russell Dennis: Greetings, salutations from sunny Aurora, Colorado, not far from Boulder, where our guest is today. My friend Michele Fisher, who runs a nonprofit that supports people through equine therapy. She is unique in that she raises money for herself, and she funds other projects. We’re going to find out a lot about her secrets and how she is able to juggle both hats and wear both hats and what she looks for, and to talk about how equine therapy is helping veterans and children all over Colorado.
 Hugh: Let’s jump into this. Michele, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell people a little bit about yourself.
 Michele Fisher: Thank you, Hugh. Thank you so much, Russ. I am a graduate of the University of Michigan, and my degree is in early childhood development. I am a teacher and have been a teacher and lover of education from the get-go. I decided at a very early age that I wanted to try to help children in a different way, not just through traditional education means by being a teacher. I became a CASA worker. It’s an acronym for Court Appointed Special Advocate. We are volunteers that are trained to work with foster children who have been abused and/or neglected. We help them in life. We actually become life coaches and advocates in court and in their family life for them. This showed me how there were many more opportunities to help not only one child at a time or one classroom at a time, but entire families and entire communities that were compromised or otherwise had survived some sort of trauma.
 When I lived in Lake Tahoe, I became certified in what was then called the NAHRA program, the North American Handicapped Riders’ Association. Today, it’s called PATH. It’s a particular version or modality of equine therapy that primarily addresses the needs of humans on the autism spectrum and also people who have cerebral palsy.
 As I married my two new loves, my equine therapy and my CASA work and education work with children, I realized that if there was enough money available for veterans that have PTSD and children who have been traumatized, we would be able to have a permanent impact upon the mental health in our society. As I became more and more involved in the mental health arena through my CASA work and also through the equine therapy work, I was struck and dumbfounded by how remarkably effective working with the horses was with people who were frankly quite emotionally ravaged and even physically ravaged in their lives.
 This became almost an obsession with me to find out why this connection was so different from other forms of traditional modalities and therapies when we are trying to help victims of trauma of all sorts try to live normal lives. I say “normal” knowing there is nothing normal. Joy-filled lives, trying to live lives with fulfillment and with absence of emotional and mental pain.
 I started to volunteer as a horse handler at various equine therapy barns around my area in Boulder, Longmont, Lafayette, Lewisville, Colorado. I learned there is an entire tribe of incredibly skilled, passionate, knowledgeable people who are doing this work, not only here in Colorado, which happens to be a hotbed of equine therapy, I’ve learned, but also all over the country and in eastern Europe as well. I started The Healing Hoof in order to raise money for people who couldn’t afford equine therapy in order to get the benefit of it.
 In that, I’ve also learned how to find the vibe of my tribe, which I think is a really important learning for executive directors and other individuals involved in nonprofit work. Whether you are awarding grants, receiving grants, or doing some mix of both, or whether you are not even involved in the grant world, but maybe you are accepting donations or sponsorships, no matter what means you are using to generate energy and create a new life for your nonprofit, I think it’s incredibly important to make sure that you find the right people. That is what I mean by find the vibe of your tribe.
 I’ll tell you a short story, an anecdote. I was a director of business development for a nonprofit in Lakewood for a while before I immersed myself fully into my own nonprofit. During that time, one of the very large mega oil producers in Weld County approached us and asked if they could partner with us in order to gain positive PR. Their philosophy was that because many folks in Colorado are opposed to fracking, and they work here and have to work with us—gee, did I just say something about my political opinions?—they have a hard time really getting community buy-in to what they’re doing. What they came to us for was to spend a lot of money in several communities on the I-25 corridor in the heart of Weld County, where the bulk of their operations exist, to build things like rec centers or community places where the community could come, and they would name it after themselves so that the community could see them as a more friendly player. At that company, we thought that was a great idea, and they were willing to pay us a great amount of money to do it.
 Fast forward to now marketing this nonprofit. I am speaking to all thought leaders in the nonprofit sector. As a marketer and a business development person, my mind went to, Wow, how many veterans and kids could I help with their checkbook? Maybe I should approach them to become a sponsor. I did my research, and I looked at the websites, and I dug deeper and deeper into their fiscal plans and all of the information I could garner from each of seven or eight of the larger to mid-size operators. What I found was that they are not my tribe. The reason they’re not my tribe is because of who they really are intrinsically and the way that they choose to present themselves to the community. I’m not saying this is true for all of the operators, but these large ones I did research on. What I found was deception. What I found was that they promised to show certain things or reveal certain things they really didn’t. Even though I probably could’ve gone down that path and gotten significant sponsorship dollars for my foundation, I decided not to because in the end, the only real support that we will get for our individual passions and for our work that we’re doing is from the people who are authentically attached to it passionately and in their hearts and souls, not just as a job each day.
 I tell that story because I think that as businesspeople and as responsible executive directors and volunteers and different kinds of people that work to make this world better on many different planes, sometimes we get lost in trying to raise money and making that the goal because it is paramount not only to our success but to our survival. Of course, we must keep our eye on that ball. But I ask for us today to open some space to consider being a little bit more selective and taking a long-term view in exchange for a shorter-term relationship that may end up working out for the short run, may get you some bad press or not. In the end, if it’s not really part of your vision and your mission and your heart, then I don’t believe it’s worth pursuing, even if it glitters a lot.
 Hugh: Michele, how long have you been doing The Healing Hoof foundation?  
 Michele: We started in 2013. We have really just begun to become vibrant and active. Life got in the way a little bit with me between then and now, which prevented me from really going full force into this. Now, I am able to do that. We’re having our first event this summer, August 11 in Longmont. We are going to have a really fun event with a very well-known a capella rock band called Face Vocal Band, which will be our headline entertainment there. We are looking to make a splash into the Denver market with lots of great grant funding and lots of opportunity for veterans and kids and people who need to address issues relative to their trauma.
 Hugh: Russell, you’ve been carefully paying attention. I’m sure you have some questions for Michele.
 Russell: We met fairly recently, and we have been working together to move things forward. The ability to build relationships that help you raise money and fund projects takes a bit of juggling. What I wanted to ask Michele is what are three things that you look for in collaborative partners, whether you are getting them to write you a check or you are writing them a check?
 Michele: The first thing I look for is authenticity. Are they really who they purport to be? Are they really doing the work they say they’re doing? Are they passionate? Are they involved? Are they engaged? That is the most important thing: their dedication from inside to the work that they’re doing.
 Then I look for their wherewithal. Are they emotionally balanced? Are they able to carry forward this work? Are they able to do the work they set out to do and accomplish their goals? Are they well balanced and able to be a leader?
 The third thing would be for whom are they the sphere of influence? When I start to gather my tribe of those I want to help and those I would like to help me help them, I want to make sure that we have the same spirit of moving money. I’m dedicated to moving the money that I receive so that it can work. Whereas I appreciate people who make a lot of money and have a lot of resources. If they are not willing to move these resources and allow them to be a part of the commerce of healing and making our world better, then they are not a good partner for me. And they need to smile.
 Russell: You don’t smile very much.
 Michele: Not much.
 Russell: With that said, looking for these things in the collaborative partners, there are things that you do that make you successful. What would you say are the three key ingredients to your success, both before and after you started this project and this journey?
 Michele: #1, I am willing to say no. That is a difficult thing, especially for those of us in this world who have inherently large hearts and say yes too often around the table and then cry on the way home trying to figure out how to fulfill that promise. I think the ability to draw boundaries when it’s appropriate, to say no to the opportunities that are not good for everyone, and to recognize what is really a win-win for all of the people and animals involved.
 For example, one of our strong tenements is to fund barns and equine therapists who take excellent care of their horses, who don’t overuse the land, who try to use organic products and not a lot of chemicals. It’s not just the mental health of the child or the adult that we’re concerned about. We want to make sure that our horses are happy and healthy. They are co-therapists. They are important to us. They are sentient beings who we respect a great deal. That is part of what is very important to us, too. That does set us apart. There are some people who will do some equine therapy. Just come and pet my horse. Get on my horse and ride. There is a certain kind of therapy or equine experience associated with that, but we are pretty picky about who we fund. We fund therapists that are licensed and have experience. Depending on what you come to us with, what your maladies are, whether they’re physical, emotional, mental, or some combination will depend on which barns we might recommend for you or what type of equine therapy we suggest might be the most impactful for your particular issues you’re dealing with or way of life or concerns or experiences. Everything is individual.
 Russell: That is one of the hallmarks of effective collaboration when people come to you. Having that network of people and being willing to share the wealth so to speak. I know people who do certain types of therapies for certain types of people. We’re well aware of both strategy and collaboration here at SynerVision.
 One of the things that Beth Cantor, who is an expert at nonprofit social media, she wrote a book called The Healthy, Happy Nonprofit. She talks about the importance of taking care of yourself, which you emphasized here. How important is it for nonprofit leaders to take care of themselves in order to be effective at actually serving others? What would you say are the three most important things a nonprofit leader could do to take care of themselves so they are effective at helping other people?
 Michele: Russ, it’s not only important, it’s critical. One cannot be effective if they are not well cared for. There is a reason that the flight attendants tell us to put the oxygen masks on ourselves first. If we are not fully present, and our cup isn’t full, then we are not able to give to others fully, authentically, and give everything they truly need.
 I believe in two-hour massages. Not one-hour massages. After one hour, I’m just getting relaxed, and the Jello is just setting. Two-hour massages. Yes, it will cost a little more money, but it will go a lot further. Massages.
 Happiness. To do what really brings you joy, whether it’s dancing or singing or drinking a cup of coffee at six o’clock in the morning and watching the sun rise or climbing up on my horses at midnight when I can’t sleep or breathing or yoga or taking a walk or a bath or having a good argument or discussion or reading a book or knitting or sports. Whatever it is. Find out, like my good friend Cody Qualls from Face Vocal Band says, “What’s your jam?” Get your jam on. Your jam. I think that’s a really important thing to know about ourselves, and to give us permission to indulge in.
 If you have children, if you are involved in your work or extracurricular activities, or taking care of parents, we all need to fill ourselves up. There are some schools of thought that will have us believe that is a selfish act, or that it is not giving to take care of yourself first. We all have to negotiate that particular conversation and value amongst ourselves and the people we engage with. But there is nothing wrong with meeting your own needs. Eating healthy, great food. I have had people say to me, “I can’t afford to eat organic,” and they have the latest version of the newest iPhone. It depends on what you value. If you value your longevity, if you value what you have to give, you will be able to give it for a long time and to give much more quality in terms of your knowledge, wisdom, offering, service, or products if you take care of yourself. That is one thing. Get massages.
 Engage with people. Find your own personal tribe. Laugh with people. Cry with people. Engage. For me, this might not be for everyone, engage with animals. That to me is a big part of my own personal well-being. I know it’s not for everybody. But if you are a meow or a bark or a neigh, go do your neigh neigh. Find your neigh neigh. It might not be a horse.
 Russell: I can’t be of service to others unless I’m at my best. You are by trade a teacher from the University of Michigan. As a lifelong fan of the Ohio State Buckeyes, I never thought in a thousand years I would meet a Michigan Wolverine I like as much as I like you. We just connected and clicked on so many levels.
 You started your career. You have been working very closely for a long time with children. You chose to serve children. As a Court Appointed Special Advocate in three counties, you still are serving children at a high level. Talk a little bit about the therapy work that you’ve done with children and why horses are perfect for helping children through any challenges they have.
 Michele: Why children? Because children are our future. Children are our hope. Children represent the continuity of our very being and species. They are so magically delightful that when they honor me by allowing me to pick them up or care for them or laugh with them, it just touches my heart deeply. I find them to be so varied and open. They teach me so much. I learn so much from kids that adults are just kind of a little bit jaded or dead sometimes. It keeps me alive. It keeps me willing to be a little different and think of things in a different way.
 It also allows me to see the world literally from a different point of view. When you look at the world from a three-year-old’s view, and you are looking at mostly table legs or humans’ knees, it’s a very different way of looking at the world, and it gives me compassion for needing to work harder to look into people’s eyes and to be able to meet them on a deep level. Children allow me to do that and foster that for me. I think they bring life and honesty and joyfulness to most situations. That is what draws me to children. It makes me feel so great when I am still in touch with an 18-year-old child who I got as a CASA child when she was 18 months old out of a horrific situation, and today she is a pediatrician.
 Russell: That sense of possibility is impossible among children. They’re small. Talk a little bit about how being a Court Appointed Special Advocate played into you starting your own foundation. What we are talking about with PTSD is trauma at the highest level.
 Michele: So when I first became a CASA member, a lot of people would respond to the news by saying, “Oh my God, how could you do that work? I could never do that work. I love children so much, and I’m so sensitive to them.” I’m here to tell you that I can do the work because I love children so much. It hurts me to see what people do to children. Every single time, it breaks my heart. Even after 18 years—she’s not a pediatrician yet, she’s in school—after 18 years, I still cry. I still feel very deeply, but never in court, never in front of them. It gives me power, it empowers me because if a child can stand up and put one foot in front of the other after what they’ve experienced with so little resources and so little support, then who am I, this privileged white woman, to say that I can’t go out and raise money and help people and do what I know I can do? I find that strength in those cases. I find my wherewithal. I find that I can take on a tougher family. I can take on a gang member. I can work with these people. I’m not afraid anymore.
 What they have taught me is how to grit my teeth and get what I want. It was a message that my father taught me that they are reinforcing that has been valuable. Even when it looks like there is nothing, I don’t know if you know who David Pelzer is. A Boy Named It was the book he wrote; he was the spokesperson for CASA, as are Dr. Phil and his wife, Robin. But what they show us is how the human spirit knows no bounds and that if we will just reach out a little bit and give just a finger up, a hand up, an arm up, whatever we can afford to spread around, what blooms is so much greater than the small seed that we once planted. Now many of these children are leading productive, contributatory lives in society. I’m not going to say it; it would not be deserving to say just because of me. But I did play a role in their self-confidence, in bringing them hope, that there is an adult who will listen, and in learning to use resources. That keeps my engine going. There are plenty more children and people who are suffering that I can help through using my education, experience, mind, resources, and wherewithal to bring awareness to what they need. There are people who will help. We just have to ask the right people.
 Russell: This work is taking place with small children, with teenagers. Some have been in gangs, but they have experienced all of this trauma. City kids. Connectedness is important as far as reaching children. I’m sure a lot of our nonprofit leaders who watch here work with youth and children. Equine therapy is a unique, out-of-the-box, fairly new way of approaching working with these kids. Horses are very large animals.  
 Michele: Most of them.
 Russell: The sight of a horse, even for an adult, you look up and see this huge animal, they have experienced all of this trauma, and there is probably some fear going on around that. How do you ease the children and these young people you work with- Same thing could be with veterans that you work with. When people have experienced this trauma, there is a fear factor going on. How do you bridge that and let these folks know you’re safe here so that they can ease into actually building the relationship with the animal?
 Michele: Great question. I use the principles of an author by the name of Gavin de Becker. He protects one of the presidents. I don’t know if it’s the current president or Obama. He is also an author. He wrote the book The Gift of Fear. The principle is that fear is useful. Fear exists in us for a reason. It is to be paid attention to, not to be overridden, ignored, or otherwise bulldozed through.
 Your question is so wonderful. Why horses? How do we mitigate fear? Horses help us to mitigate fear. Not only by virtue of their size and maybe other people’s experiences or what people have heard about horses, they not only induce fear, but they also help us to bring our fears out and put them on the table. For example, no matter who the herd of horses that I pick, if I bring a client that has a boundaries problem, one of those horses is going to get up into her face and make that client deal with her boundaries. They know. They just know that what you’re feeling inside.
 Why fear? We use the fear as a therapeutic form to become aware of, to understand that these are feelings to name what that really is that you’re feeling, and to be able to talk about it and why. Where else in your life do you feel fear? How is this like other fearful situations? How is it different? There is a plethora of conversations that then ensue because we use trained therapists who not only take advantage of these situations, but they foster the discussion. They’re talented and skillful enough to recognize when a person is feeling fearful or trepidation, and move in and relieve it and talk about it, so that processing occurs. Once processing occurs, then healing can start to live there. You can plant a seed of healing.
 Horses are remarkable beings. They are extremely intuitive. That old adage: horses know you’re afraid, so pretend you’re not. The first half is true, and the second half just doesn’t work. If you’re afraid, the horse knows you’re afraid, so you might as well just stand there and say, “I’m scared,” or “Hey, it’s okay, buddy.” If you walk in with a lot of bravado and pretend you know what’s going on and go into the horse’s space, he/she will let you know. They won’t hurt you. But they will somehow recognize who you are and find a way to let you know that’s not okay. As we get managed in our behavior by the herd, there are lots of opportunities for us to talk about our own personal herds. Who are our relationships? We let our clients watch the herd interact. There they are in their families. Every single one of them can find their mother, father, boyfriend, little brother, someone to bring up issues that are yet not dealt with and still wreaking havoc with their joy.
 Horses do that. They have a very large nervous system. Just being around them will calm you. Some people just want to stand near them. Some people just take chairs and go in the stalls and breathe with them or listen to them eat. It’s very relaxing.
 There is a whole gamut of why horses work for certain people. The theme is that they do. Not every horse wants to be a therapy horse by the way. You can’t just pull over by the side of the road, jump into a corral, and make yourself feel better. It may work. But not every horse wants to engage. Not every horse wants to engage with people who are triggered, or triggered easily, or on medication, or going through withdrawal, or having some of the human experiences that we do. Bu the ones that are are all there. Often, they’ve had professional lives being competitive horses, hunters, jumpers, Western, reining horses, English, equitation on the flat. Many of them were very successful. They don’t have anything to prove. Now they’re like we are. They are in the time of their life when they are settled and ready to give back.
 Russell: Just looking out, there hasn’t been a lot of data collection on equine therapy and studies on how that helps people. You and I went to see some folks at the United Veterans’ Committee of Colorado. When you introduced yourself, people gravitated to you right away because the first words out of their mouths were, “This works.” Talk about some of what people who are exposed to this and who take on equine therapy, talk about some of the benefits and results you have been able to give people.
 Michele: Sure, thank you. One of the things that really stands out in my mind is their ability to cope. They have a toolbox now that they didn’t have before. I’m not saying it’s the only toolbox they have. It is one that they will always have and one that works every time. Because of that, they are more grounded. They are happier. They are easier to get along with. The children represent less behavior problems in school. They get along with their parents, foster parents, stepsiblings, and siblings much better than they used to. They are able to be more proactive in their own lives. They found a way to not just blow up. They have found coping mechanisms. They found the ability to recognize when they are having trouble. The ability to recognize and having a toolbox are two things that can really change people’s lives. Those are the kinds of things that we impart into their world, into their ability, their resources to be able to go to.
 Russell: One of the things, going back to our meeting with the veterans here in Colorado at UVC, that they spoke to, was the epidemic of veteran suicides. This has become a national issue. Although there has been a lot of awareness over the last four or five years certainly, the mental health profession has not really been able to make a significant dent in it. As a matter of fact, the first time I started hearing statistics seven or eight years ago, there were 18-20 veterans a day committing suicide. That is up to about 23 a day now. I know a lot of mental health resources have been put into that. A lot of people are doing work toward it. But we haven’t made a dent in it.
 With equine therapy being new, people might say, “I’ve tried some other things.” What would you talk to them about as far as: Are you a candidate? Are you someone who would benefit from equine therapy? Who does equine therapy help? Who is predisposed to getting better results? How would you handle that type of conversation? What are some of the things you would say to those folks who may be on the fence about trying it?  
 Michele: I would say jump over that fence and come on over. I don’t know if you know this, but I have a personal story with suicide. My husband committed suicide in 1999. My personal experience with it is part of what motivates me to really be involved with the veterans. The fact that I see it escalating and not decreasing is even more motivation to do it quickly and in a large way and to try and get involved from a legislative perspective and try to get equine therapy involved and try to get these men and women into groups that are where they belong and where the rubber meets the road in terms of what they’re dealing with and how we can help them to have less of it. I’m not saying we’re the panacea, but it is the best kind of therapy that I’ve ever been exposed to in terms of impact and the amount of joy that it allows people to feel in their lives for a longer period of time and in a deeper, meaningful, lasting way.
 Yes, suicide prevention is something that is very much part of our work. We take it very seriously. We have some people in our network who are specialists. Not only are they veterans, but they are also equine specialists. We feel like we’re a really good resource for the veterans. We really want to make an impact and help to reduce that number down to nothing, or at least single digits, in the next year or two if we can.
 Hugh: It’s an alarming number. I’ve seen it escalate. When we started out, I thought maybe she had a green screen image like me, but it kept moving. The horse that is grazing is right in the picture. This is from the ranch.
 I’m wondering, you’re really articulate. You’re really focused. You’re passionate about what you’re doing. What do you do for self-care as a leader? It’s not a straight line developing an organization. You’ve been through some life trauma yourself. How do you keep yourself not only on the cutting edge of what you’re doing, but balanced—you’ve set some boundaries as you mentioned—and growing as a leader? How do you care for yourself?
 Michele: I like to do workshops. I like to look for leaders who I admire and whom I would like to adopt some of their means of work. I go to different places and do workshops and educate myself. I further myself mentally and spiritually. I take time to expand, not only in terms of mental health and how we can help veterans and children, but also where I need to grow. I do therapy for myself. I invest in relationships and get a lot of feedback from people and take their advice. I actually ask people what areas need to be improved.
 As far as leadership, I like to go away with people. I like to go on things that are kind of like retreats or weekends and just focus on, or even have a lunch or spend time with other thought leaders in a relaxing atmosphere to really just share ideas and not pursue the agenda so that we can expand ourselves and be more elastic instead of just doing our work every single day. That is expected of us. How can we get bigger? How can we have new ideas and see things in different ways? I like to be involved with people in all different kinds of ways.
 Hugh: That’s a great answer. What do you think, Russell? That is a balanced approach to staying centered as a leader.
 Russell: A podcaster James Altucher, whose books I’ve been reading, talks about that. He talks about improving 1% a day. I don’t remember where he got that, but he said improving 1% a day helps him to get better. One of the things he does is write down 10 ideas every day. He says it’s the ideas that move people. Ideas move things forward. He writes down ideas. Not all 10 of them may be good. But getting into the practice of doing that helps you expand, helps you grow and shift into who you are.
 We’re big fans here at SynerVision of learning. We’re building toolkits all the time for people to come into the community and take advantage of. Leaders are readers. That might be a green screen, but Hugh reads a lot of books. He’s written some. Soon, we’re going to be talking about some of the books that are out there that we’ve read that some of our guests have written, and talk about some of the lessons we learned from them and some things we can apply to put to work for ourselves.
 Along that line, talk to us about some things that you’ve written and read that have been helpful to you on your journey in making a difference in the lives of other people.
 Michele: I think my go-to resource is the book by Dr. Charles Whitfield on boundaries. He might not even be with us anymore. He was in his 90s a while ago. It is a go-to place for me because no matter what walk of life you choose, and no matter what kind of people you surround yourself with, it’s important to be able to recognize what their boundaries are in order to maintain respectful relationships and boundaries that go deep and get intimate. It also talks from a psychological point of view why we need to be able to understand what our own personal boundaries are because it gives us room for our own mental health and our space to be able to stay emotionally fluid and healthy and available to be able to function and contribute as a human on the planet instead of taking away. I’m not saying people who are needy are taking away. I’m saying people who impose upon others and strip us of our dignity and our respective selves. That is one of the most important books I really like.
 Another great book is by the daughter of either H or R Block. Her name escapes me right now. Prince Charming Isn’t Coming. It’s a lovely book. I see you’re chuckling. It’s true. By the way, Prince Charming isn’t coming. I love that book because it really reinforces that we are responsible for ourselves, and that we can take responsibility no matter what our learnings previously or understandings have been. We can move on at whatever age to know who we are and to take care of our own needs. I love that message in that book.
 Another one would be Judith Durek, Circle of Stones. You could read this book in an hour. It’s a book about what your life would have been like if you had been offered all of the support from your tribe that you needed at every step of the way. If you were in the sweat lodge with all of your tribe members, and your elders were teaching you about how it is to be a man or a woman, instead of the kind of life that you led, what would that be like for you? It’s a wonderful springboard into what if. It allows us to fantasize about what we still could be. I really love that. She presents it in an easy-to-read, lightly anecdotal format.
 I think those would be the three go-to places.
 Another author I must talk about is Andrew Sam Newman. You must listen to his TED Talk. He writes children’s books. They are the best children’s books I’ve ever read. I majored in kiddie lit. I read a lot of children’s books. The reason they’re so good and so meaningful is because of the values that they impart and because of the way they set up reading time and the way they foster intimacy and create joy and love around reading. He writes just the greatest books. Whether you have children or not, you must familiarize yourself with him. He has a delightful soul.
 Hugh: You have a little sparkle in your eye when you talk about that. Michele, as we wrap up this good interview, lots of useful information, we like for people to tell their own stories because it’s encouragement for those who are starting out or for those who are stuck. You can make a pathway if you are determined to do it, but if you have a strategy and a team around you and a clear way of talking about your vision and why you should support it. We will give you a chance to share a closing thought, tip, or challenge. We have great leaders, but they need help to get them to where they need to be with it. You get to have the last word. Russell closes us out and says sayonara at the end.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 We close out this interview with you giving the last word to people. What thought do you want to leave people with?
 Michele: There are two things I would like to ask. First, I would like to say thank you for all of the work that you’re doing. The two things I’d like to ask are these. Today. I’d like to ask you to do two things today. 1) Ask for something you have previously been afraid to ask for. 2) Spontaneously help someone.
 I want to thank you so much for listening today. I want to let you know we appreciate all of the work you’re doing. Hope to see you August 11 in Lafayette. We’re at TheHealingHoof.org.
 Russell: Thank you, Michele. This has been a really great interview. It’s a pleasure working with you. I’m looking forward to continuing and making that impact here on the front range with the wonderful program you have. A lot of people out there.
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<strong>Why horses are perfect PTSD co-therapists......Join together in advocating for effective trauma therapy</strong><br> <strong>with Michele Fisher</strong>
</h1> <p><strong><a href="https://healinghoof.org/"></a>Michele Fishe</strong>r is a Univ. of Michigan educated ( early childhood development) and 16-year CASA volunteer advocating in court and in life for traumatized children in our foster care system. Ms. Fisher has made it her mission in life to connect changemakers with effective mental health offerings, to compromised populations. The impact of this groundbreaking work speaks to otherwise unattainable joy and functionality in the lives of traumatized Americans. The unconventional, yet proven effective, use of the horse as an active participant in the therapeutic process make this modality an unusual yet compelling area for exploration.</p>   <p> </p> Read the Interview <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Hi, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis again for this edition of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> We have interviews with thought leaders every week. Russell, this is somebody you found today. How are you today, Russell?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Greetings, salutations from sunny Aurora, Colorado, not far from Boulder, where our guest is today. My friend Michele Fisher, who runs a nonprofit that supports people through equine therapy. She is unique in that she raises money for herself, and she funds other projects. We’re going to find out a lot about her secrets and how she is able to juggle both hats and wear both hats and what she looks for, and to talk about how equine therapy is helping veterans and children all over Colorado.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Let’s jump into this. Michele, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Tell people a little bit about yourself.</p> <p><strong>Michele Fisher:</strong> Thank you, Hugh. Thank you so much, Russ. I am a graduate of the University of Michigan, and my degree is in early childhood development. I am a teacher and have been a teacher and lover of education from the get-go. I decided at a very early age that I wanted to try to help children in a different way, not just through traditional education means by being a teacher. I became a CASA worker. It’s an acronym for Court Appointed Special Advocate. We are volunteers that are trained to work with foster children who have been abused and/or neglected. We help them in life. We actually become life coaches and advocates in court and in their family life for them. This showed me how there were many more opportunities to help not only one child at a time or one classroom at a time, but entire families and entire communities that were compromised or otherwise had survived some sort of trauma.</p> <p>When I lived in Lake Tahoe, I became certified in what was then called the NAHRA program, the North American Handicapped Riders’ Association. Today, it’s called PATH. It’s a particular version or modality of equine therapy that primarily addresses the needs of humans on the autism spectrum and also people who have cerebral palsy.</p> <p>As I married my two new loves, my equine therapy and my CASA work and education work with children, I realized that if there was enough money available for veterans that have PTSD and children who have been traumatized, we would be able to have a permanent impact upon the mental health in our society. As I became more and more involved in the mental health arena through my CASA work and also through the equine therapy work, I was struck and dumbfounded by how remarkably effective working with the horses was with people who were frankly quite emotionally ravaged and even physically ravaged in their lives.</p> <p>This became almost an obsession with me to find out why this connection was so different from other forms of traditional modalities and therapies when we are trying to help victims of trauma of all sorts try to live normal lives. I say “normal” knowing there is nothing normal. Joy-filled lives, trying to live lives with fulfillment and with absence of emotional and mental pain.</p> <p>I started to volunteer as a horse handler at various equine therapy barns around my area in Boulder, Longmont, Lafayette, Lewisville, Colorado. I learned there is an entire tribe of incredibly skilled, passionate, knowledgeable people who are doing this work, not only here in Colorado, which happens to be a hotbed of equine therapy, I’ve learned, but also all over the country and in eastern Europe as well. I started The Healing Hoof in order to raise money for people who couldn’t afford equine therapy in order to get the benefit of it.</p> <p>In that, I’ve also learned how to find the vibe of my tribe, which I think is a really important learning for executive directors and other individuals involved in nonprofit work. Whether you are awarding grants, receiving grants, or doing some mix of both, or whether you are not even involved in the grant world, but maybe you are accepting donations or sponsorships, no matter what means you are using to generate energy and create a new life for your nonprofit, I think it’s incredibly important to make sure that you find the right people. That is what I mean by find the vibe of your tribe.</p> <p>I’ll tell you a short story, an anecdote. I was a director of business development for a nonprofit in Lakewood for a while before I immersed myself fully into my own nonprofit. During that time, one of the very large mega oil producers in Weld County approached us and asked if they could partner with us in order to gain positive PR. Their philosophy was that because many folks in Colorado are opposed to fracking, and they work here and have to work with us—gee, did I just say something about my political opinions?—they have a hard time really getting community buy-in to what they’re doing. What they came to us for was to spend a lot of money in several communities on the I-25 corridor in the heart of Weld County, where the bulk of their operations exist, to build things like rec centers or community places where the community could come, and they would name it after themselves so that the community could see them as a more friendly player. At that company, we thought that was a great idea, and they were willing to pay us a great amount of money to do it.</p> <p>Fast forward to now marketing this nonprofit. I am speaking to all thought leaders in the nonprofit sector. As a marketer and a business development person, my mind went to, Wow, how many veterans and kids could I help with their checkbook? Maybe I should approach them to become a sponsor. I did my research, and I looked at the websites, and I dug deeper and deeper into their fiscal plans and all of the information I could garner from each of seven or eight of the larger to mid-size operators. What I found was that they are not my tribe. The reason they’re not my tribe is because of who they really are intrinsically and the way that they choose to present themselves to the community. I’m not saying this is true for all of the operators, but these large ones I did research on. What I found was deception. What I found was that they promised to show certain things or reveal certain things they really didn’t. Even though I probably could’ve gone down that path and gotten significant sponsorship dollars for my foundation, I decided not to because in the end, the only real support that we will get for our individual passions and for our work that we’re doing is from the people who are authentically attached to it passionately and in their hearts and souls, not just as a job each day.</p> <p>I tell that story because I think that as businesspeople and as responsible executive directors and volunteers and different kinds of people that work to make this world better on many different planes, sometimes we get lost in trying to raise money and making that the goal because it is paramount not only to our success but to our survival. Of course, we must keep our eye on that ball. But I ask for us today to open some space to consider being a little bit more selective and taking a long-term view in exchange for a shorter-term relationship that may end up working out for the short run, may get you some bad press or not. In the end, if it’s not really part of your vision and your mission and your heart, then I don’t believe it’s worth pursuing, even if it glitters a lot.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Michele, how long have you been doing The Healing Hoof foundation? <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> We started in 2013. We have really just begun to become vibrant and active. Life got in the way a little bit with me between then and now, which prevented me from really going full force into this. Now, I am able to do that. We’re having our first event this summer, August 11 in Longmont. We are going to have a really fun event with a very well-known a capella rock band called Face Vocal Band, which will be our headline entertainment there. We are looking to make a splash into the Denver market with lots of great grant funding and lots of opportunity for veterans and kids and people who need to address issues relative to their trauma.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, you’ve been carefully paying attention. I’m sure you have some questions for Michele.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> We met fairly recently, and we have been working together to move things forward. The ability to build relationships that help you raise money and fund projects takes a bit of juggling. What I wanted to ask Michele is what are three things that you look for in collaborative partners, whether you are getting them to write you a check or you are writing them a check?</p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> The first thing I look for is authenticity. Are they really who they purport to be? Are they really doing the work they say they’re doing? Are they passionate? Are they involved? Are they engaged? That is the most important thing: their dedication from inside to the work that they’re doing.</p> <p>Then I look for their wherewithal. Are they emotionally balanced? Are they able to carry forward this work? Are they able to do the work they set out to do and accomplish their goals? Are they well balanced and able to be a leader?</p> <p>The third thing would be for whom are they the sphere of influence? When I start to gather my tribe of those I want to help and those I would like to help me help them, I want to make sure that we have the same spirit of moving money. I’m dedicated to moving the money that I receive so that it can work. Whereas I appreciate people who make a lot of money and have a lot of resources. If they are not willing to move these resources and allow them to be a part of the commerce of healing and making our world better, then they are not a good partner for me. And they need to smile.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You don’t smile very much.</p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> Not much.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> With that said, looking for these things in the collaborative partners, there are things that you do that make you successful. What would you say are the three key ingredients to your success, both before and after you started this project and this journey?</p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> #1, I am willing to say no. That is a difficult thing, especially for those of us in this world who have inherently large hearts and say yes too often around the table and then cry on the way home trying to figure out how to fulfill that promise. I think the ability to draw boundaries when it’s appropriate, to say no to the opportunities that are not good for everyone, and to recognize what is really a win-win for all of the people and animals involved.</p> <p>For example, one of our strong tenements is to fund barns and equine therapists who take excellent care of their horses, who don’t overuse the land, who try to use organic products and not a lot of chemicals. It’s not just the mental health of the child or the adult that we’re concerned about. We want to make sure that our horses are happy and healthy. They are co-therapists. They are important to us. They are sentient beings who we respect a great deal. That is part of what is very important to us, too. That does set us apart. There are some people who will do some equine therapy. Just come and pet my horse. Get on my horse and ride. There is a certain kind of therapy or equine experience associated with that, but we are pretty picky about who we fund. We fund therapists that are licensed and have experience. Depending on what you come to us with, what your maladies are, whether they’re physical, emotional, mental, or some combination will depend on which barns we might recommend for you or what type of equine therapy we suggest might be the most impactful for your particular issues you’re dealing with or way of life or concerns or experiences. Everything is individual.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is one of the hallmarks of effective collaboration when people come to you. Having that network of people and being willing to share the wealth so to speak. I know people who do certain types of therapies for certain types of people. We’re well aware of both strategy and collaboration here at SynerVision.</p> <p>One of the things that Beth Cantor, who is an expert at nonprofit social media, she wrote a book called <em>The Healthy, Happy Nonprofit.</em> She talks about the importance of taking care of yourself, which you emphasized here. How important is it for nonprofit leaders to take care of themselves in order to be effective at actually serving others? What would you say are the three most important things a nonprofit leader could do to take care of themselves so they are effective at helping other people?</p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> Russ, it’s not only important, it’s critical. One cannot be effective if they are not well cared for. There is a reason that the flight attendants tell us to put the oxygen masks on ourselves first. If we are not fully present, and our cup isn’t full, then we are not able to give to others fully, authentically, and give everything they truly need.</p> <p>I believe in two-hour massages. Not one-hour massages. After one hour, I’m just getting relaxed, and the Jello is just setting. Two-hour massages. Yes, it will cost a little more money, but it will go a lot further. Massages.</p> <p>Happiness. To do what really brings you joy, whether it’s dancing or singing or drinking a cup of coffee at six o’clock in the morning and watching the sun rise or climbing up on my horses at midnight when I can’t sleep or breathing or yoga or taking a walk or a bath or having a good argument or discussion or reading a book or knitting or sports. Whatever it is. Find out, like my good friend Cody Qualls from Face Vocal Band says, “What’s your jam?” Get your jam on. Your jam. I think that’s a really important thing to know about ourselves, and to give us permission to indulge in.</p> <p>If you have children, if you are involved in your work or extracurricular activities, or taking care of parents, we all need to fill ourselves up. There are some schools of thought that will have us believe that is a selfish act, or that it is not giving to take care of yourself first. We all have to negotiate that particular conversation and value amongst ourselves and the people we engage with. But there is nothing wrong with meeting your own needs. Eating healthy, great food. I have had people say to me, “I can’t afford to eat organic,” and they have the latest version of the newest iPhone. It depends on what you value. If you value your longevity, if you value what you have to give, you will be able to give it for a long time and to give much more quality in terms of your knowledge, wisdom, offering, service, or products if you take care of yourself. That is one thing. Get massages.</p> <p>Engage with people. Find your own personal tribe. Laugh with people. Cry with people. Engage. For me, this might not be for everyone, engage with animals. That to me is a big part of my own personal well-being. I know it’s not for everybody. But if you are a meow or a bark or a neigh, go do your neigh neigh. Find your neigh neigh. It might not be a horse.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I can’t be of service to others unless I’m at my best. You are by trade a teacher from the University of Michigan. As a lifelong fan of the Ohio State Buckeyes, I never thought in a thousand years I would meet a Michigan Wolverine I like as much as I like you. We just connected and clicked on so many levels.</p> <p>You started your career. You have been working very closely for a long time with children. You chose to serve children. As a Court Appointed Special Advocate in three counties, you still are serving children at a high level. Talk a little bit about the therapy work that you’ve done with children and why horses are perfect for helping children through any challenges they have.</p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> Why children? Because children are our future. Children are our hope. Children represent the continuity of our very being and species. They are so magically delightful that when they honor me by allowing me to pick them up or care for them or laugh with them, it just touches my heart deeply. I find them to be so varied and open. They teach me so much. I learn so much from kids that adults are just kind of a little bit jaded or dead sometimes. It keeps me alive. It keeps me willing to be a little different and think of things in a different way.</p> <p>It also allows me to see the world literally from a different point of view. When you look at the world from a three-year-old’s view, and you are looking at mostly table legs or humans’ knees, it’s a very different way of looking at the world, and it gives me compassion for needing to work harder to look into people’s eyes and to be able to meet them on a deep level. Children allow me to do that and foster that for me. I think they bring life and honesty and joyfulness to most situations. That is what draws me to children. It makes me feel so great when I am still in touch with an 18-year-old child who I got as a CASA child when she was 18 months old out of a horrific situation, and today she is a pediatrician.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That sense of possibility is impossible among children. They’re small. Talk a little bit about how being a Court Appointed Special Advocate played into you starting your own foundation. What we are talking about with PTSD is trauma at the highest level.</p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> So when I first became a CASA member, a lot of people would respond to the news by saying, “Oh my God, how could you do that work? I could never do that work. I love children so much, and I’m so sensitive to them.” I’m here to tell you that I can do the work because I love children so much. It hurts me to see what people do to children. Every single time, it breaks my heart. Even after 18 years—she’s not a pediatrician yet, she’s in school—after 18 years, I still cry. I still feel very deeply, but never in court, never in front of them. It gives me power, it empowers me because if a child can stand up and put one foot in front of the other after what they’ve experienced with so little resources and so little support, then who am I, this privileged white woman, to say that I can’t go out and raise money and help people and do what I know I can do? I find that strength in those cases. I find my wherewithal. I find that I can take on a tougher family. I can take on a gang member. I can work with these people. I’m not afraid anymore.</p> <p>What they have taught me is how to grit my teeth and get what I want. It was a message that my father taught me that they are reinforcing that has been valuable. Even when it looks like there is nothing, I don’t know if you know who David Pelzer is. <em>A Boy Named It</em> was the book he wrote; he was the spokesperson for CASA, as are Dr. Phil and his wife, Robin. But what they show us is how the human spirit knows no bounds and that if we will just reach out a little bit and give just a finger up, a hand up, an arm up, whatever we can afford to spread around, what blooms is so much greater than the small seed that we once planted. Now many of these children are leading productive, contributatory lives in society. I’m not going to say it; it would not be deserving to say just because of me. But I did play a role in their self-confidence, in bringing them hope, that there is an adult who will listen, and in learning to use resources. That keeps my engine going. There are plenty more children and people who are suffering that I can help through using my education, experience, mind, resources, and wherewithal to bring awareness to what they need. There are people who will help. We just have to ask the right people.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This work is taking place with small children, with teenagers. Some have been in gangs, but they have experienced all of this trauma. City kids. Connectedness is important as far as reaching children. I’m sure a lot of our nonprofit leaders who watch here work with youth and children. Equine therapy is a unique, out-of-the-box, fairly new way of approaching working with these kids. Horses are very large animals. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> Most of them.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The sight of a horse, even for an adult, you look up and see this huge animal, they have experienced all of this trauma, and there is probably some fear going on around that. How do you ease the children and these young people you work with- Same thing could be with veterans that you work with. When people have experienced this trauma, there is a fear factor going on. How do you bridge that and let these folks know you’re safe here so that they can ease into actually building the relationship with the animal?</p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> Great question. I use the principles of an author by the name of Gavin de Becker. He protects one of the presidents. I don’t know if it’s the current president or Obama. He is also an author. He wrote the book <em>The Gift of Fear.</em> The principle is that fear is useful. Fear exists in us for a reason. It is to be paid attention to, not to be overridden, ignored, or otherwise bulldozed through.</p> <p>Your question is so wonderful. Why horses? How do we mitigate fear? Horses help us to mitigate fear. Not only by virtue of their size and maybe other people’s experiences or what people have heard about horses, they not only induce fear, but they also help us to bring our fears out and put them on the table. For example, no matter who the herd of horses that I pick, if I bring a client that has a boundaries problem, one of those horses is going to get up into her face and make that client deal with her boundaries. They know. They just know that what you’re feeling inside.</p> <p>Why fear? We use the fear as a therapeutic form to become aware of, to understand that these are feelings to name what that really is that you’re feeling, and to be able to talk about it and why. Where else in your life do you feel fear? How is this like other fearful situations? How is it different? There is a plethora of conversations that then ensue because we use trained therapists who not only take advantage of these situations, but they foster the discussion. They’re talented and skillful enough to recognize when a person is feeling fearful or trepidation, and move in and relieve it and talk about it, so that processing occurs. Once processing occurs, then healing can start to live there. You can plant a seed of healing.</p> <p>Horses are remarkable beings. They are extremely intuitive. That old adage: horses know you’re afraid, so pretend you’re not. The first half is true, and the second half just doesn’t work. If you’re afraid, the horse knows you’re afraid, so you might as well just stand there and say, “I’m scared,” or “Hey, it’s okay, buddy.” If you walk in with a lot of bravado and pretend you know what’s going on and go into the horse’s space, he/she will let you know. They won’t hurt you. But they will somehow recognize who you are and find a way to let you know that’s not okay. As we get managed in our behavior by the herd, there are lots of opportunities for us to talk about our own personal herds. Who are our relationships? We let our clients watch the herd interact. There they are in their families. Every single one of them can find their mother, father, boyfriend, little brother, someone to bring up issues that are yet not dealt with and still wreaking havoc with their joy.</p> <p>Horses do that. They have a very large nervous system. Just being around them will calm you. Some people just want to stand near them. Some people just take chairs and go in the stalls and breathe with them or listen to them eat. It’s very relaxing.</p> <p>There is a whole gamut of why horses work for certain people. The theme is that they do. Not every horse wants to be a therapy horse by the way. You can’t just pull over by the side of the road, jump into a corral, and make yourself feel better. It may work. But not every horse wants to engage. Not every horse wants to engage with people who are triggered, or triggered easily, or on medication, or going through withdrawal, or having some of the human experiences that we do. Bu the ones that are are all there. Often, they’ve had professional lives being competitive horses, hunters, jumpers, Western, reining horses, English, equitation on the flat. Many of them were very successful. They don’t have anything to prove. Now they’re like we are. They are in the time of their life when they are settled and ready to give back.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Just looking out, there hasn’t been a lot of data collection on equine therapy and studies on how that helps people. You and I went to see some folks at the United Veterans’ Committee of Colorado. When you introduced yourself, people gravitated to you right away because the first words out of their mouths were, “This works.” Talk about some of what people who are exposed to this and who take on equine therapy, talk about some of the benefits and results you have been able to give people.</p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> Sure, thank you. One of the things that really stands out in my mind is their ability to cope. They have a toolbox now that they didn’t have before. I’m not saying it’s the only toolbox they have. It is one that they will always have and one that works every time. Because of that, they are more grounded. They are happier. They are easier to get along with. The children represent less behavior problems in school. They get along with their parents, foster parents, stepsiblings, and siblings much better than they used to. They are able to be more proactive in their own lives. They found a way to not just blow up. They have found coping mechanisms. They found the ability to recognize when they are having trouble. The ability to recognize and having a toolbox are two things that can really change people’s lives. Those are the kinds of things that we impart into their world, into their ability, their resources to be able to go to.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One of the things, going back to our meeting with the veterans here in Colorado at UVC, that they spoke to, was the epidemic of veteran suicides. This has become a national issue. Although there has been a lot of awareness over the last four or five years certainly, the mental health profession has not really been able to make a significant dent in it. As a matter of fact, the first time I started hearing statistics seven or eight years ago, there were 18-20 veterans a day committing suicide. That is up to about 23 a day now. I know a lot of mental health resources have been put into that. A lot of people are doing work toward it. But we haven’t made a dent in it.</p> <p>With equine therapy being new, people might say, “I’ve tried some other things.” What would you talk to them about as far as: Are you a candidate? Are you someone who would benefit from equine therapy? Who does equine therapy help? Who is predisposed to getting better results? How would you handle that type of conversation? What are some of the things you would say to those folks who may be on the fence about trying it? <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> I would say jump over that fence and come on over. I don’t know if you know this, but I have a personal story with suicide. My husband committed suicide in 1999. My personal experience with it is part of what motivates me to really be involved with the veterans. The fact that I see it escalating and not decreasing is even more motivation to do it quickly and in a large way and to try and get involved from a legislative perspective and try to get equine therapy involved and try to get these men and women into groups that are where they belong and where the rubber meets the road in terms of what they’re dealing with and how we can help them to have less of it. I’m not saying we’re the panacea, but it is the best kind of therapy that I’ve ever been exposed to in terms of impact and the amount of joy that it allows people to feel in their lives for a longer period of time and in a deeper, meaningful, lasting way.</p> <p>Yes, suicide prevention is something that is very much part of our work. We take it very seriously. We have some people in our network who are specialists. Not only are they veterans, but they are also equine specialists. We feel like we’re a really good resource for the veterans. We really want to make an impact and help to reduce that number down to nothing, or at least single digits, in the next year or two if we can.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s an alarming number. I’ve seen it escalate. When we started out, I thought maybe she had a green screen image like me, but it kept moving. The horse that is grazing is right in the picture. This is from the ranch.</p> <p>I’m wondering, you’re really articulate. You’re really focused. You’re passionate about what you’re doing. What do you do for self-care as a leader? It’s not a straight line developing an organization. You’ve been through some life trauma yourself. How do you keep yourself not only on the cutting edge of what you’re doing, but balanced—you’ve set some boundaries as you mentioned—and growing as a leader? How do you care for yourself?</p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> I like to do workshops. I like to look for leaders who I admire and whom I would like to adopt some of their means of work. I go to different places and do workshops and educate myself. I further myself mentally and spiritually. I take time to expand, not only in terms of mental health and how we can help veterans and children, but also where I need to grow. I do therapy for myself. I invest in relationships and get a lot of feedback from people and take their advice. I actually ask people what areas need to be improved.</p> <p>As far as leadership, I like to go away with people. I like to go on things that are kind of like retreats or weekends and just focus on, or even have a lunch or spend time with other thought leaders in a relaxing atmosphere to really just share ideas and not pursue the agenda so that we can expand ourselves and be more elastic instead of just doing our work every single day. That is expected of us. How can we get bigger? How can we have new ideas and see things in different ways? I like to be involved with people in all different kinds of ways.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a great answer. What do you think, Russell? That is a balanced approach to staying centered as a leader.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> A podcaster James Altucher, whose books I’ve been reading, talks about that. He talks about improving 1% a day. I don’t remember where he got that, but he said improving 1% a day helps him to get better. One of the things he does is write down 10 ideas every day. He says it’s the ideas that move people. Ideas move things forward. He writes down ideas. Not all 10 of them may be good. But getting into the practice of doing that helps you expand, helps you grow and shift into who you are.</p> <p>We’re big fans here at SynerVision of learning. We’re building toolkits all the time for people to come into the community and take advantage of. Leaders are readers. That might be a green screen, but Hugh reads a lot of books. He’s written some. Soon, we’re going to be talking about some of the books that are out there that we’ve read that some of our guests have written, and talk about some of the lessons we learned from them and some things we can apply to put to work for ourselves.</p> <p>Along that line, talk to us about some things that you’ve written and read that have been helpful to you on your journey in making a difference in the lives of other people.</p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> I think my go-to resource is the book by Dr. Charles Whitfield on boundaries. He might not even be with us anymore. He was in his 90s a while ago. It is a go-to place for me because no matter what walk of life you choose, and no matter what kind of people you surround yourself with, it’s important to be able to recognize what their boundaries are in order to maintain respectful relationships and boundaries that go deep and get intimate. It also talks from a psychological point of view why we need to be able to understand what our own personal boundaries are because it gives us room for our own mental health and our space to be able to stay emotionally fluid and healthy and available to be able to function and contribute as a human on the planet instead of taking away. I’m not saying people who are needy are taking away. I’m saying people who impose upon others and strip us of our dignity and our respective selves. That is one of the most important books I really like.</p> <p>Another great book is by the daughter of either H or R Block. Her name escapes me right now. <em>Prince Charming Isn’t Coming.</em> It’s a lovely book. I see you’re chuckling. It’s true. By the way, Prince Charming isn’t coming. I love that book because it really reinforces that we are responsible for ourselves, and that we can take responsibility no matter what our learnings previously or understandings have been. We can move on at whatever age to know who we are and to take care of our own needs. I love that message in that book.</p> <p>Another one would be Judith Durek, <em>Circle of Stones.</em> You could read this book in an hour. It’s a book about what your life would have been like if you had been offered all of the support from your tribe that you needed at every step of the way. If you were in the sweat lodge with all of your tribe members, and your elders were teaching you about how it is to be a man or a woman, instead of the kind of life that you led, what would that be like for you? It’s a wonderful springboard into what if. It allows us to fantasize about what we still could be. I really love that. She presents it in an easy-to-read, lightly anecdotal format.</p> <p>I think those would be the three go-to places.</p> <p>Another author I must talk about is Andrew Sam Newman. You must listen to his TED Talk. He writes children’s books. They are the best children’s books I’ve ever read. I majored in kiddie lit. I read a lot of children’s books. The reason they’re so good and so meaningful is because of the values that they impart and because of the way they set up reading time and the way they foster intimacy and create joy and love around reading. He writes just the greatest books. Whether you have children or not, you must familiarize yourself with him. He has a delightful soul.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You have a little sparkle in your eye when you talk about that. Michele, as we wrap up this good interview, lots of useful information, we like for people to tell their own stories because it’s encouragement for those who are starting out or for those who are stuck. You can make a pathway if you are determined to do it, but if you have a strategy and a team around you and a clear way of talking about your vision and why you should support it. We will give you a chance to share a closing thought, tip, or challenge. We have great leaders, but they need help to get them to where they need to be with it. You get to have the last word. Russell closes us out and says sayonara at the end.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from Wordsprint*</p> <p>We close out this interview with you giving the last word to people. What thought do you want to leave people with?</p> <p><strong>Michele:</strong> There are two things I would like to ask. First, I would like to say thank you for all of the work that you’re doing. The two things I’d like to ask are these. Today. I’d like to ask you to do two things today. 1) Ask for something you have previously been afraid to ask for. 2) Spontaneously help someone.</p> <p>I want to thank you so much for listening today. I want to let you know we appreciate all of the work you’re doing. Hope to see you August 11 in Lafayette. We’re at TheHealingHoof.org.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thank you, Michele. This has been a really great interview. It’s a pleasure working with you. I’m looking forward to continuing and making that impact here on the front range with the wonderful program you have. A lot of people out there.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3403</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Sustainability - Will the Path You Are On Lead You There?</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/sustainability-will-the-path-you-are-on-lead-you-there</link>
      <description>Sustainability - Will the Path You Are On Lead You There? Interview with John Sebesta
 John Sebestahas experience working in the government, private sector, and non-profits, which provides a diverse perspective with which John views and analyzes the world. The foundation of his career took place in the private sector, where he has extensive experience in financial and business strategy. He previously served as the business manager for international programs at Lockheed Martin, leading the proposal, negotiation and management of more than $500M in contracts. Seeking a change of pace, John and his wife Claire then moved to Guatemala to focus on using business as a tool for positive change, and transitioned to consulting with social entrepreneurs in Guatemala. This opened the door to an opportunity for John to serve as a co-founder and head of Business Development &amp; Strategy for a social enterprise startup in Puerto Rico. Currently, as founder of Business Stewardship Partners, LLC, John provides business leadership to purpose-driven leaders of non-profits and social enterprises. He holds a Bachelor's of Finance from NMSU and an MBA from Southern Methodist University.
 This interview is about the following: How we steward the resources entrusted to us and our organizations will ultimately determine the impact that we are able to create. An unhealthy perspective toward money often hinders non-profits from achieving the very impact they aspire to. Recognizing the important role that money plays in enabling your success, and critically thinking through how to optimize the inflows and outflows to further the mission of your organization, will ultimately lead to a more effective and sustainable organization.
 We must ensure that the entire structure, from governance to funding sources to expenses, drives the organization to stay aligned to the mission, instead of slowly enabling mission creep. The world is changing rapidly around us, providing both threats and opportunities to innovate, improve relevancy and improve the sustainability of our organizations.
 Learn more about John and Stewardship Partners at https://stewardpartner.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 26 May 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/791f8bc6-b329-11eb-9f0f-4f2cf0317105/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with John Sebesta</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Sustainability - Will the Path You Are On Lead You There? Interview with John Sebesta
 John Sebestahas experience working in the government, private sector, and non-profits, which provides a diverse perspective with which John views and analyzes the world. The foundation of his career took place in the private sector, where he has extensive experience in financial and business strategy. He previously served as the business manager for international programs at Lockheed Martin, leading the proposal, negotiation and management of more than $500M in contracts. Seeking a change of pace, John and his wife Claire then moved to Guatemala to focus on using business as a tool for positive change, and transitioned to consulting with social entrepreneurs in Guatemala. This opened the door to an opportunity for John to serve as a co-founder and head of Business Development &amp; Strategy for a social enterprise startup in Puerto Rico. Currently, as founder of Business Stewardship Partners, LLC, John provides business leadership to purpose-driven leaders of non-profits and social enterprises. He holds a Bachelor's of Finance from NMSU and an MBA from Southern Methodist University.
 This interview is about the following: How we steward the resources entrusted to us and our organizations will ultimately determine the impact that we are able to create. An unhealthy perspective toward money often hinders non-profits from achieving the very impact they aspire to. Recognizing the important role that money plays in enabling your success, and critically thinking through how to optimize the inflows and outflows to further the mission of your organization, will ultimately lead to a more effective and sustainable organization.
 We must ensure that the entire structure, from governance to funding sources to expenses, drives the organization to stay aligned to the mission, instead of slowly enabling mission creep. The world is changing rapidly around us, providing both threats and opportunities to innovate, improve relevancy and improve the sustainability of our organizations.
 Learn more about John and Stewardship Partners at https://stewardpartner.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Sustainability - Will the Path You Are On Lead You There?<br> Interview with John Sebesta</strong></h1> <p><strong>John Sebesta</strong>has experience working in the government, private sector, and non-profits, which provides a diverse perspective with which John views and analyzes the world. The foundation of his career took place in the private sector, where he has extensive experience in financial and business strategy. He previously served as the business manager for international programs at Lockheed Martin, leading the proposal, negotiation and management of more than $500M in contracts. Seeking a change of pace, John and his wife Claire then moved to Guatemala to focus on using business as a tool for positive change, and transitioned to consulting with social entrepreneurs in Guatemala. This opened the door to an opportunity for John to serve as a co-founder and head of Business Development &amp; Strategy for a social enterprise startup in Puerto Rico. Currently, as founder of Business Stewardship Partners, LLC, John provides business leadership to purpose-driven leaders of non-profits and social enterprises. He holds a Bachelor's of Finance from NMSU and an MBA from Southern Methodist University.</p> <p>This interview is about the following:<br> How we steward the resources entrusted to us and our organizations will ultimately determine the impact that we are able to create. An unhealthy perspective toward money often hinders non-profits from achieving the very impact they aspire to. Recognizing the important role that money plays in enabling your success, and critically thinking through how to optimize the inflows and outflows to further the mission of your organization, will ultimately lead to a more effective and sustainable organization.</p> <p>We must ensure that the entire structure, from governance to funding sources to expenses, drives the organization to stay aligned to the mission, instead of slowly enabling mission creep. The world is changing rapidly around us, providing both threats and opportunities to innovate, improve relevancy and improve the sustainability of our organizations.</p> <p>Learn more about John and Stewardship Partners at <a href="https://stewardpartner.com/">https://stewardpartner.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3604</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Marketing Laws of the Golden Triangle</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/marketing-laws-of-the-golden-triangle</link>
      <description>David Dunworth is a certified Magnetic Marketing Advisor serving Nonprofits, and Clinicians through attraction marketing and automation to grow capacity and sustainability to fulfill their mission. Nonprofits he’s worked with in the past are Michigan Cancer Foundation, Leukemia Society of America, Michigan Bach Festival, Detroit International Wine Auction benefiting the Institute of Music and Dance, and many others.
 Donors get inundated with appeals daily, yet only a few receive attention. Focusing your attention on existing marketing messages is more effective and less expensive than constantly chasing new ones.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7943a948-b329-11eb-9f0f-071c9e0838ef/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>How to Connect with Your Message with David Dunworth</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>David Dunworth is a certified Magnetic Marketing Advisor serving Nonprofits, and Clinicians through attraction marketing and automation to grow capacity and sustainability to fulfill their mission. Nonprofits he’s worked with in the past are Michigan Cancer Foundation, Leukemia Society of America, Michigan Bach Festival, Detroit International Wine Auction benefiting the Institute of Music and Dance, and many others.
 Donors get inundated with appeals daily, yet only a few receive attention. Focusing your attention on existing marketing messages is more effective and less expensive than constantly chasing new ones.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>David Dunworth </strong>is a certified Magnetic Marketing Advisor serving Nonprofits, and Clinicians through attraction marketing and automation to grow capacity and sustainability to fulfill their mission.<br> Nonprofits he’s worked with in the past are Michigan Cancer Foundation, Leukemia Society of America, Michigan Bach Festival, Detroit International Wine Auction benefiting the Institute of Music and Dance, and many others.</p> <p>Donors get inundated with appeals daily, yet only a few receive attention. Focusing your attention on existing marketing messages is more effective and less expensive than constantly chasing new ones.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3447</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[6dd77149ad034789be204539a85a99d2]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5619376286.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>How to Get Over the Problem of Asking for Donations (Archive)</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-to-get-over-the-problem-of-asking-for-donations</link>
      <description>We all need money to run the nonprofit that we lead, however many of us are timid when it comes to asking donors for funding. Clay will help to shift that paradigm in today's interview. He will teach the skills he shares with top business executives on closing sales so that we, as nonprofit leaders can approach donors with confidence.
 
 Clay Neves, is Owner of Personal Sales Dynamics, a consulting and coaching firm that empowers small business owners to attract, engage, convert and retain the variety of business relationships their businesses need to survive and thrive.  He has over 33 years of sales management, VP of Sales, and Chamber of Commerce Executive experience, working with Fortune 500 companies and small businesses alike, Clay  has consistently multiplied sales results using the variety of prosperity relationships.  In fact, he increased sales for one multi-million dollar post-secondary vocational training school by almost 900% in just 3.5 years, resulting in an Inc. 500 award for that company.  He conducts monthly networking clinics for several Chambers of Commerce. He also serves as Club President for CEO Space International Utah Chapter.  He is a master wordsmith in business and personal life, and is a student of language and words and an avid writer of prose and poetry.  His book, A Wealth of Friends, 7 Essential Relationships Your Business Needs to Survive and Thrive is schedule for release the end of May.  He lives in the Salt Lake City area with his wife of 32 years.
 More about Clay Neves at http://personalsalesdynamics.com
  
 Here's the Transcript for the Interview
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. We are going to talk about a delicate subject today. It’s money. I hear money come up a lot. People want to raise money for their enterprise but are bound up with the words or the fear of asking for money or the fear of rejection, or maybe we don’t think we should be asking for money because we positioned it wrong in our brains.
 Russell, we’re back together again. It’s Tuesday at 2, and we are broadcasting live. How are you?
 Russell Dennis: It’s a beautiful day out here in Denver. All is well. Yes, this is a great subject because the reality with money is that everybody has a relationship with it. Your personal relationship could impact your work, so we’ll talk about that today.
 Hugh: I met this gentleman recently. I watched his program on one of the learning platforms, and it’s a really well-done program. We had a chat just a couple weeks ago at CEO Space, and I got to know Clay. We spoke last week and learned more. I said, “Why don’t you come on and talk about this topic to nonprofit leaders?” We hit the wall when it comes to having the conversation about money.
 Let’s introduce Clay Neves. Clay is our guest today. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Clay Neves: It’s good to be here.
 Hugh: Tell people a little bit about yourself and your background and why you’re doing this.
 Clay: I started out in sales at the ripe old age of 12. My mom bought me a suit, thought it might be good for me to learn how to sell. She bought me How to Win Friends and Influence People. I read it. She taught me four things on how to contact people. It’s probably the most important sales training I’ve had in my entire life. Basically, eye to eye contact, then smile, then shake, then, “Hello, my name is Clay. What’s yours?” then ask them a question. Keep asking them questions about themselves. People love to talk about themselves. Go forth and sell these greeting cards. And I did.
 I had various sales jobs. When I was about 27, because I was finishing up my college work a little older, I got a job as a business to business telemarketer selling long-distance calling plans. Only the old people remember that. Long-distance numbers, we had to dial in the number and then connect to it, and then we could dial the number we wanted to dial, and then we had to put in another code. It was ridiculous. Anyway, I was amazing at that.
 About a week in, because it was a big project and they had to hire about anybody who could breathe, they promoted me to supervisor. I had ten, anywhere from about 18-23-year-old, women, most had no sales experience whatsoever. They had a handset to. Call on, and I had a monitoring phone with a handset. This started naturally, but it became systematized that as I was listening to their call, they would miss these opportunities that they would think were objections. I’d go over and whisper in their ear what to say, and it would turn the conversation around. I’d only have to do that a few times before they got the feel for it themselves. The timing of answering an objection, what to say, how to say it, to use the analogy of a tennis game, to keep the tennis ball going back over the net. All you need to do is hit the ball one more time over the net than they do, and you get the sale, right?
 Anyway, we were the top team every week. I ended up managing that entire program including instituting a statistical quality control program where we could statistically score the presentations. As I listened to hundreds and thousands of these calls, I built up over time an instinct in terms of what keeps the conversation going and what shuts down the conversation. With each script accordingly, put it back on the floor, listen and test and measure statistically again. This is program after program. I opened a call center for the company. I ran that for the company. It wasn’t very much longer before I was managing these five outbound, mostly business to business call centers. I picked that up.
 I have done a lot of inside sales, but I have also done key account selling to major corporations like Citibank and AT&amp;T. I had a great set of clients that I managed on the east coast as a business account executive for a national company, as well as experience as a chamber of commerce president. That gave me some insight into the nonprofit world. The way that they were selling memberships and donations was terrible. I think a lot of that will apply. We may talk about that and how it applies to a nonprofit.
 We focus on that word “nonprofit” to the exclusion of the word that follows it. Nonprofit business. Right? Sales is still a very important part of any nonprofit business, at least that’s what I see.
 Hugh: Oh, yes.  
 Clay: I also was hired by a company to take their seminar marketing channel. We took that from about 300,000 to about 3.5 million in about three years. We also earned an Inc. 500 award along the way. That was an amazing experience.
 But these principles of sales growth I think are universal. 33 years of sales management experience, there is not a lot of sales situations I haven’t seen. There is not a lot of sales problems I haven’t coached salespeople through. There is not a lot of deals gone sideways. You see patterns. There is a handful of things that you can correct as you start to categorize them and understand what’s at the heart of the problem. That’s a little bit about my background. Been heavy into networking and building business by building these relationships and partnerships and leveraging relationships I already have to bring new sales relationships. Been doing that very well. Of course, as a chamber of commerce president, that was my stock and trade. That’s why I’m here.
 Hugh: Love it. Let me reframe what you just said. We, meaning Russ and I and those of us at SynerVision Leadership Foundation, spend a lot of effort working with people to understand why this so-called nonprofit (by the way, that is the only organization that I know of that constantly defines itself by what it’s not), we describe ourselves by what it’s not, but really, we are a tax-exempt business. There are strict rules about what happens with that money flow. We have hit on a crucial point. We need to install good, sound business principles into this charity we run.
 I think we all melt down when we are raising equity money or a business, trying to pitch a new product. It’s not our thing, we think. What’s the biggest challenge with people selling- We are selling an event we are doing, we are selling a sponsorship, we are selling donors or grant-makers on why they should fund an initiative. What do you find is the biggest hang-up with anybody, but most especially those running this tax-exempt charity we were talking about?
 Clay: The biggest thing I see in nonprofits is we are so utterly convinced that our donors, our sponsors are the ones that are doing us the favor, that the value is only flowing one way. In a sense, it’s not selling, it’s more begging. It feels like that sometimes, you know? But if you go from the assumption that doggone it, this sponsorship has value, you start to look at it from the aspect that what I have to offer solves a problem, not only for the people my charity serves, but for my sponsors. What is that problem that sponsors have that make them pay money for a sponsorship? Well, the best way to do that is ask your best sponsors. What are they getting out of this? Why do they spend the money? What problem does it solve for them?
 When I first took over the chamber of commerce, we had a sales guy that would go out and basically shame people into joining the chamber of commerce because the chamber of commerce did so much good in advocating business interests within this city. They should be part of that. You can see why membership was lacking. I turned it around and said, “Why would a business owner pay money to become a member of the chamber of commerce? What are we doing for them?” The question was turned around. Not why aren’t you a member of the chamber that does so much good for businesses in general, but the question then became: What are you trying to accomplish in the Murray City area? Tell me what you are trying to get to here. Who do you need to connect with? What do you need to put out there? What constituencies do you want to be more exposed to? What do you want to accomplish here? We talk about their business objectives. In that, we found several ways that chamber membership could help them meet their objectives, could solve problems. We had to begin the discussion in terms of what do they want their business to be, what are their goals and objectives?
 Once you speak to your biggest donors and sponsors, you will find the problems that you solve for them. Then as you approach potential sponsors and potential donors, the questions that you ask evolve around those potential problems. You can ask them in what I call “Have you ever” form. “Have you ever wanted to be more connected in the community? Have you ever thought that it’s not just about making money, but it’s about giving money away so that you can save money on taxes, too? Just talk about it from their interest rather than the interest of the nonprofit first.
 Now, that being said, what nonprofits offer is also a huge psychological and emotional value exchange. People want to give back. We want to talk about how they feel about that and what some of their objectives are. What criteria do they have in terms of giving and sponsoring? What availability do they have as far as time and money? These kinds of questions are coming in and exploring a little bit where they are.
 I spent two years on an LDS mission in Japan. Basically, what I was doing there was trying to persuade people about an anthropomorphic god to a culture that believes in a very mystical, pantheistic concept of God. I had to start from where they were. I had to start from their understanding of the word we used for God. A word that might not have had the same meaning to me that it had to them. I had to start with their meaning. We have to come at them from their interest, from their language, just like in any sales situation. But we should not be coming at it from the aspect that we have nothing to offer them, that there is nothing they get out of this sponsorship, and they are just doing it out of the kindness of their heart, and that’s it. We are doing as much of a favor for them as they are for us. That is why it is a value for value exchange.
 Does that make sense, or am I just rambling here? I never know. My wife says, “All right, Clay, we get it.”
 Hugh: I am going to go to Russell. Russell comes up with this topic often. Not only in raising money, he is an expert at creating value propositions and attracting money, but also in recruiting board members. Russ, talk a little bit about the conversation is like in finding out what they are looking for.
 Russell: I am glad there is people out there that embrace that dreaded “v” word. When you get in nonprofit circles, it’s a word that nobody utters. I went to an event put on by a chamber of commerce where they actually had nonprofits pitch what they were doing. At the first annual event we had zero out of 12 nonprofits mention the word “value.” Value is what you bring to the table. Values are what drives you, what is at the root of everything you do. It’s very important to look at values as well as value. That by the way, I have four steps to building a high-performance nonprofit. Step four is clearly communicating the value you bring. You have to do that in language that resonates with the person you are talking to. It could be a board member, a volunteer, an advisor, people getting your services. Value is in the ear of the beholder. You are talking to them about how you solve their problem, and everybody has a different thing they are interested in. It’s finding that.
 Part of that is being clear about who you are. Communicating that in terms that are meaningful to them so that they see you as somebody that can help them. You are offering a partnership. We are partnering and collaborating to solve this problem. It’s not a hat and hand process. Nobody gets any training on any of this. We are all selling. We are solving problems, but somehow this notion of selling makes us feel like used car salespeople, not that they are unethical.
 I know a couple of folks here. There is a young lady by the name of Lisa Malick, a good friend of mine, his wife. I know a young salesman here in the Denver area, a six-figure salesman, Aaron Cabot, my godson. He and Lisa could sell shoes to a man or woman with no feet. It all seems like it’s a mystical, magical skill, but it sounds like it’s something, too, that could be taught. I think our relationship with money has an impact on how we approach sales. What has been your experience with that kind of dynamic? How does that impact you?
 Clay: I said it a little differently, but it’s music to my ears when you said value is in the ear of the beholder. I teach that value only exists in one place, and that is behind the eyes and between the ears of the perspective relationship that you are trying to form. And only there is the value of what we’re offering found. It has nothing to do with the price of what we’re offering, other than the fact that the value had better be greater than the price or you’re going nowhere.
 How do you establish value? Are we conversant in the language of the donor or the sponsor who are often coming at it from a “business” decision? The good news is there is no such thing as a business decision. Every decision a businessperson makes is for personal reasons. They may couch it in a business decision, but if a decision is made, it’s for a personal reason. Either they think it will help their situation, help them look good, or help them look better to whomever it is they need to look better to. It may be something that’s important to them intrinsically, a value they have that this will really help and they have established a certain level of contribution or donorship that they either can or want to put toward that value to be seen as a good person, or to have exposure, whatever their motive. Their motive might not always be altruistic. It may be flat “I need a tax exemption, a tax deduction, and if I can make myself look good and get exposure in the community at the same time, well, heck, why not?” We need to know what that is.
 It comes down to asking the right questions in the right sequence so that it’s absolutely not a presentation, but a conversation. I try to teach my clients we don’t have sales presentations; we have sales conversations. We ask questions conversationally. We don’t get into survey mode. We don’t get into interrogation mode. It’s a conversation. There are conditioned responses that we have. As we get into conversations, questions are one of the strongest conditioned responses. We’re asked a question; we just have a conditioned response we need to answer. If we understand the question, if we know the answer to the question, and if the question is easy enough, we will answer it without thinking. In building questioning sequences, we make it so easy for them to answer the questions that they do it without really thinking. We can get to their true thinking that way. Does that make sense?
 Hugh: Can you give us an example of one of those sequences?
 Clay: Here is a typical sales question, and we may put it into multiple- We come into the office, and we sit down with the person, and we say something to this effect, “We are here to save the whales. We think whales are really, really important to our ecology and the health of the planet. We need your help, so how much would you like to give today?” That is our sales question. Either that, or we get into it, and it’s such a complex question. What do you think is the best reason to give for altruistic reasons or tax savings? What is it that you have done in the past? We ask about five or six questions before we let them answer it and they are so confused about what we want to know so they don’t answer.
 But if we go in with a more natural conversation, or even personal style, like if we would if we met somebody at a cocktail party or a birthday party for a cousin or a family reunion or a new cousin-in-law. What do we do? We introduce ourselves, and then we ask them something very easy about themselves, “What do you do, John?” “Oh, really, how long have you been there?” We build question on question on the answer they gave us. We go down that path a little way, asking subsequent questions that clarify the answers they gave us to the original question until we understand that. Then we can change the subject with another question. We might ask the first few questions about what they do. Then we might ask, “Where are you from?” Then we ask a couple of questions about their answer to that. “Oh, I’m from Boise, Idaho.” “Oh really, Boise? Were you born there then?” “No, I was born in Salt Lake City.” “How did you get to Boise?” We might ask a couple of questions that way. As we are doing this little dance of reflective questions and getting the responses, we are so accustomed to giving when we are first introduced to somebody. We are building a foundation of common ground, of trust. We can then escalate those questions incrementally until we can get into some really serious questions that they feel okay answering for us.
 For example, “John, have you ever been a donor before? Have you ever sponsored some charity before? How did that work out for you? Was it a good experience? If not, why? What went wrong, do you think? Do you have any value or intention of looking at sponsoring or donating to nonprofits in the future? If so, what criteria might you use? What causes are important to you? What ones do you tend to align yourself with or align themselves to your values? Which ones are you most interested in?” We start to build a profile of how he gives. “When you give, what was the reason beyond the fact that you wanted to contribute to a worthy cause? What else did you feel you got out of that? Or that you wanted to get out of that?” If we have done our homework and spoken to our best donors and to our best sponsors, and we see a pattern as we talk to ten or twenty of them as to these deep-seated reasons they give, the ones that go beyond their true altruism, we can be ready for a really meaningful discussion. For example, we can ask questions when we get their trust about their tax situation. “What does your tax situation look like this year, John? Are you concerned? Has it been a great year for you and you have a lot more profitability? Do you want to get something out of that other than just giving it to the IRS this year? Tell me about your tax philosophy this year. What’s going on with your business?” We get them to talk about these reasons that we are aware of because we have done our homework talking with our best donors, the ones we want to duplicate, and we can then craft our conversation around the value that our best donors receive so that donors and sponsors like them will be attracted by them. It will be their language. It will be familiar to them. Does that make sense?
 Hugh: I love it. There are a couple of things that are underneath what you’re talking about. One of the most common problems that Russell and I see when we interact with these organizations, either clergy or nonprofit executive directors, is burn-out. We are talking to these people now, these executive directors or clergy, and we are telling them this is what they need to do. There is another piece of this. We burned out because we over-function. We are doing things that could be delegated. We can blame the board for making us do things or not do things. It’s our fault because we are doing things for them that they should be doing.
 This is a two-prong question. What advice do you have for these leaders that are listening to this? What can they do to then teach their stakeholders, which would include board members, staff, others, to make presentations and be part of that?
 What does it say on your shirt? I know you have a good program that people can walk through and learn. We are not here to sell stuff, but it’s an awesome program that I think would get people a good leg up on us. So tell people what’s on your shirt and how people can find that. This is a very tricky topic that we all get stuck in.
 Clay: You mean my spaghetti stain right there? Just kidding.
 Hugh: Right there on your shirt.
 Clay: That’s my logo: Personal Sales Dynamics. I call it Personal Sales Dynamics because my mission is to put the personal back in sales. When we form relationships on a personal level, we almost always do it better than we do when we are doing it on a business level. It’s natural to us. Somehow we get it right. We are able to make friends. We don’t feel unnatural about it like we are pushing ourselves on somebody. If you are selling like you are pushing yourself on people, you are not selling the most effective way. Just like when I met my wife, I didn’t go up to her and say, “Hey, what are you doing next Friday night? I have a chapel set aside in Las Vegas.” I asked her to dance. Then, would you like another dance? Would you like to go to lunch? Would you like to get ice cream? Would you like to go to dinner? Then she invites me over to her place for dinner. Then we keep going out. Pretty soon, we fall in love. Then I reach a point where I want to trust her with everything I am and everything I have, and 32 years later we are still happily married. But I didn’t get there overnight.
 The best business relationships are built incrementally, too. We can speed that up. We can make it more effective. We can systematize it so that we can get there the most sure and quick way we can. But we don’t want to cross the line of putting too much out there, much more than they want, at any given stage so that we push them away. Does that make sense? Sales isn’t about pushing; it’s about sucking. I mean that by creating a vacuum if they are interested in what you are saying, they will be sucked into it.
 Hugh: That’s not what I mean when I say I suck at sales.
 Clay: In the way I am talking about it, that’s a good thing. I have seen people that suck at sales the other way, too. It’s usually because they are pushing, not sucking. It’s not being a milquetoast by the way. It’s not asserting yourself into the conversation. It’s doing it in such a way that you’re inviting them to self-qualify. In other words, there is a lot of talk in sales about how you have to be good at qualifying your potential clients. No, I am terrible at it. I have never going to be as good as qualifying potential customers as they are in qualifying themselves. I just have to give them the opportunities to do that. What opportunities can you give them at a little level to see how interested they are?
 It’s one of the reasons that a lot of my business is based on free stuff at the beginning. Would you like four chapters of my book for free? I know that if they don’t take that, if they are not interested in four chapters of my book for free, I’m wasting my time talking to them about buying a whole book, or engaging in me for a 13-week 1:1 coaching regimen. If they qualify for that, ah, okay, I follow up after they have read it, “Have you read it?” “No, I haven’t.” “Oh, okay, I thought that was interesting to you.” “Oh, it is. I have just been busy.” “Do you still intend to read it?” “Sure.” “Let me call you next week and see what you think. That would be helpful if you could give me some feedback. Do you think you could do that? If I called you next week.” “Sure.” I call them back in another week and they still haven’t read it. What am I learning? They haven’t continued to self-qualify. I found the extent of their interest.
 But if after the first week I call them and they go, “That was awesome. I want the whole book.” “That’s great, here is a link to order it. You might also be interested in some of my online training. Let me hook you up on a couple free videos and see how those work out for you. Sound good?” “Oh great. I can’t wait to get the link.” He gets the book and the link, and I follow up in another couple of weeks. He goes, “When can I get some more videos? That was awesome.” But if he says, “I’m sorry. I’ve been so busy. I haven’t had the chance to do that.” I call two weeks later and same thing. What does that tell me? When I do a free seminar, what does it tell me when somebody hasn’t given me their money but they have given me their time? That says a lot. They have self-qualified.
 What can we put into our recruitment process for donors, for board members, for whatever? Give them an opportunity, an invitation. If they are interested at all, they will step toward you. Then what is the next step? What is the next step of invitation? If you have asked the right questions that heighten and help them understand they are interested, this is a value to them. they will keep stepping forward. Sometimes we just ask far too much too soon. That I think is one of the biggest downfalls in selling is that lack of sensitivity of what they are ready to commit to.
 When I take on a partner, they want to go big and get excited about taking it to Vegas, I’m like, “Look, why don’t we try one client back and forth and see how that works and see how we like working with each other? I would propose our next step be I’ll refer a client to you and you work with them, you refer one of yours to me and I’ll work with them. After we’re done, let’s reconvene and see how that worked out. I would really love to expand this. I want to make sure we understand the best ways to work together. Don’t you think the best way to do that is to start with the first step?” I don’t like to say something small. I like to work it out on a small scale before we expand it. Think big, start small, test, test, test, test, validate, duplicate, accelerate.
 Hugh: Another way of saying that is you can do one in a row.
 Russell, what’s cooking in that brain of yours? What are you hearing? Do you have a question for our guest?
 Russell: This is all great stuff. Relationships are what it’s all about, and everything is personal. It’s a courtship. This is one thing that is pretty commonly overlooked, like in the grant space for example. There are a lot of private foundations out there, and a lot of people will go out there cold and send a proposal to a private foundation. The better path is to pick up the phone and ask for a few minutes with one of the program officers after you have looked through their material and done some homework to see, Okay, let’s look at what they funded last year, what they say their priorities are because when you ask that program officer for that 10 or 15 minutes, you want to find out what’s not on the requirements page. Dig a little deeper and ask them some questions. You might even have a project in mind as you are asking the questions. You mention that program, “Does this sound like it would fit with your priorities?” If they say yes, “Oh, would it be okay for me to send a proposal?” Even though they are open, you are asking. What you are doing is checking where what it is you want to do fits with their priorities. It’s really all about finding their priorities, and that takes some time and patience. But it’s well worth the effort because finding out what a good project looks like for these folks will save you a lot of time and aggravation, and it will save them a lot of time and aggravation. That time could be put to a better purpose.
 For relationships, there are some essential relationships that a business would need. What are some essential relationships that a nonprofit would need?
 Clay: Is that a question?
 Russell: Yes, sir.
 Clay: I think the relationships are very much the same. We just have different names for them with the nonprofit. We have customers and clients. Depending on the nonprofit, they may term those different ways. In some nonprofits, the people being served are sometimes called clients. I am on the board of a nonprofit that works with people getting out of incarceration, particularly for drug-related offenses. We get them jobs, and they actually pay a lot of their way. We call them clients. But we also have donors and sponsors, which a business would call customers or clients. They are the ones that give the money in, right? We have vendors. We have people we buy stuff from, much like a business because we are a business. We need partners. We need referral partners, affiliate partners. We need financial partners, just like a business does. Banks, credit unions, financial institutions, as well as investors, which could be something different than donor in the nonprofit world. But the relationships all revolve around four things, which are the cornerstones of all relationships, whether you are in business or personal relationships, nonprofit or for-profit.
 First, there has to be a common ground of mutual interest. Something has got to be important to both people, both parties. They share that value. They share that interest.
 Second comes mutual trust. Without that trust, there is nothing. One of the best ways of teaching people they can trust you is this instinct that you need to build in terms of how much of you they want to take at any given time. We trust those boundaries. They feel they can trust us with those boundaries. As the relationship grows, they relax those boundaries or expand those boundaries, and the relationships grows. Interest, trust.
 Third is mutual respect. For the relationship to continue to grow, there has got to be that respect for each other, which goes beyond just liking each other or having something in common. You admire the other person to a certain extent.
 Lastly, a value for value exchange. If I am not giving value in a relationship, and the other person is, two things will happen. One of two things, or maybe both sequentially. Either they will cut back the value they are giving to me, or the priority of giving me value, or they will stop giving me value altogether and the relationship will either go dormant, or if it is so egregiously uneven and so adamantly by one party I’m not going to participate in giving you value but I expect value from you, that may be damaged irreparably. We have relationships all the time where we like the person, but events have separated us a little bit. We meet them a year or two down the road, and it’s like no time has gone by. That flame restarts immediately if those other three things were there: the respect, the trust, and the common interest. If we still have that common interest, it can be renovated very quickly.
 Those are the things that really are at the foundation. Are we building a long-term relationship? For example, I do this in my book and on my tapes, I talk about the difference between what I call a finite relationship and an infinite relationship. I got this from a book by a man named James Carse,Finite and Infinite Games: Life is Play and Possibility. In that, he talks about how we play two kinds of games. Finite games are those games which we play to bring to an end with a winner and a loser. But the whole purpose is to end the game once we start playing.
 Infinite games are different. They are engaged in, and the whole purpose of the game is, to continue play. As long as people continue to play, all players are winning. Instead of playing within a set of boundaries like a finite game, we continually negotiate the boundaries to keep the game going. Does that make sense?
 A lot of people in sales attack sales as a finite game. “I’m starting this, Oh, good, we are in the process, then I want to close this and shut it down, and I win. I got your money!” I remember a sales manager told me, “Sales is war!” I don’t know, but I don’t like that model. I don’t like scorched earth. I want relationships that are going to pay me forever because I am providing value. What I am providing is much less of value to me than it is to them. What they are giving me is of much more value to me than it is to them. Then we are both winning. And it continues. That is the best way to do games.
 Hugh: Let me interject in here. Joyce White Nelson says on here, “Conversational sales builds rapport. Then we are able to come back later.” You are talking about that.
 Clay, I want to get back to this leadership piece. We are an influencer as a leader. We are sitting in the influence seat with our stakeholders. I know I have seen one of your digital programs, which is quite good. I don’t remember how I got there or what platform it was on, but I am thinking the stuff you are talking about, the leaders that are listening to this can then be empowered to- Actually, we are selling the concept to our board members that they need to get off their parking lot and do something. There is a sales piece to convince them what they are supposed to be doing anyway. It means we have to sell them the concept, sell volunteers on the concept. There is still the same principle of value exchange here. You have some tools for those people to share, and then they can help educate those people around them. It’s not only the leader that does this. In fact, we are the leader, not the doer.
 Clay: Exactly. If you want to define leadership, I like to define it this way. Leadership is getting all the right things done through other people. Good leaders get things done through other people. They don’t talk about getting it done; they don’t think about getting it done; they don’t circumlocute around getting it done; they get it done. But it gets done through other people. They have that capacity to make it of such value to the person they are delegating to and the belief that it is such a meaningful thing to the person they are delegating to that they can’t help but do it. That is leadership. Whenever we are trying to get somebody to get something done, we are leading. Guess what? That is also selling. Selling is leadership. I am trying to motivate another person to make a commitment and do something, whether that is write me a check, or whether that is let’s schedule a common webinar, or whether that is will you be on our board? Whatever it is you are asking them to do is the sale. I don’t like to have sales presentations. I like to have sales conversations. I don’t like to close sales. I like to commence relationships where we get things done.
 Hugh: Awesome. You sound like you are on a soapbox there, but I am going to Amen all of that.
 Clay, as we round out this really helpful interview, what do you want to leave people with?
 Clay: A couple of things. Number one, the biggest reason salespeople fail—I have 33 years of sales management, I found this to be true—they simply do not contact enough people. If I can do anything for success in nonprofit or profit, you have got to totally change your paradigm for how many people it takes to meet your donation and sponsorship goals. You just simply must contact more people. I call this exposure is everything. Get out there, press the flesh, go to networking events, and meet people.
 Secondly, fortune is in the follow-up. Now, you don’t need to follow up face-to-face. That takes too much time sometimes. But that is what you have systems for. It’s a one-to-many channel follow-up that takes no more time to send ten out than a million. Or you know, relatively speaking. That one-to-many channel of keeping in touch with people highly leverages your ability to do so. Invite them in those messages, in your newsletters, in those letters that you send to keep top-of-mind awareness. Invite them to take a step in. That is follow-up. What dictates when they are ready to buy? It’s not what we say. They don’t even determine the timing of it. Most of the time, it is some event in their life that takes place that determines that. We have got to be top-of-mind when that happens so that they think of us and come in.
 The third is work with the willing. The ones that step forward to you look for that next step. Everybody you’re selling to should not go, you should not part with them without having clearly defined our next step. “John, what is our next step?” This kind of language is so critical. If he says, “Let’s get together,” “Okay, as long as we are here, what time next week would be good to get together?” And you commit it. Sales as in leadership is nothing more than getting commitment from the other person.
 Hugh: Clay Neves. You’re good at what you do. It’s called Personal Sales Dynamics.com. Thank you so much for sharing such a wealth of practical information today.
 Russell, good to have you here today.
 Russell: Clay, thanks a million. It’s keeping that conversation going so that we always know what that is, what those folks want needs to get done. When we are in constant communication, we know what it is.
 Hugh: Two brilliant guys. Thanks for being here today.
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      <pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2019 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/79671b76-b329-11eb-9f0f-3790faa784c6/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Clay Neves</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>We all need money to run the nonprofit that we lead, however many of us are timid when it comes to asking donors for funding. Clay will help to shift that paradigm in today's interview. He will teach the skills he shares with top business executives on closing sales so that we, as nonprofit leaders can approach donors with confidence.
 
 Clay Neves, is Owner of Personal Sales Dynamics, a consulting and coaching firm that empowers small business owners to attract, engage, convert and retain the variety of business relationships their businesses need to survive and thrive.  He has over 33 years of sales management, VP of Sales, and Chamber of Commerce Executive experience, working with Fortune 500 companies and small businesses alike, Clay  has consistently multiplied sales results using the variety of prosperity relationships.  In fact, he increased sales for one multi-million dollar post-secondary vocational training school by almost 900% in just 3.5 years, resulting in an Inc. 500 award for that company.  He conducts monthly networking clinics for several Chambers of Commerce. He also serves as Club President for CEO Space International Utah Chapter.  He is a master wordsmith in business and personal life, and is a student of language and words and an avid writer of prose and poetry.  His book, A Wealth of Friends, 7 Essential Relationships Your Business Needs to Survive and Thrive is schedule for release the end of May.  He lives in the Salt Lake City area with his wife of 32 years.
 More about Clay Neves at http://personalsalesdynamics.com
  
 Here's the Transcript for the Interview
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. We are going to talk about a delicate subject today. It’s money. I hear money come up a lot. People want to raise money for their enterprise but are bound up with the words or the fear of asking for money or the fear of rejection, or maybe we don’t think we should be asking for money because we positioned it wrong in our brains.
 Russell, we’re back together again. It’s Tuesday at 2, and we are broadcasting live. How are you?
 Russell Dennis: It’s a beautiful day out here in Denver. All is well. Yes, this is a great subject because the reality with money is that everybody has a relationship with it. Your personal relationship could impact your work, so we’ll talk about that today.
 Hugh: I met this gentleman recently. I watched his program on one of the learning platforms, and it’s a really well-done program. We had a chat just a couple weeks ago at CEO Space, and I got to know Clay. We spoke last week and learned more. I said, “Why don’t you come on and talk about this topic to nonprofit leaders?” We hit the wall when it comes to having the conversation about money.
 Let’s introduce Clay Neves. Clay is our guest today. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Clay Neves: It’s good to be here.
 Hugh: Tell people a little bit about yourself and your background and why you’re doing this.
 Clay: I started out in sales at the ripe old age of 12. My mom bought me a suit, thought it might be good for me to learn how to sell. She bought me How to Win Friends and Influence People. I read it. She taught me four things on how to contact people. It’s probably the most important sales training I’ve had in my entire life. Basically, eye to eye contact, then smile, then shake, then, “Hello, my name is Clay. What’s yours?” then ask them a question. Keep asking them questions about themselves. People love to talk about themselves. Go forth and sell these greeting cards. And I did.
 I had various sales jobs. When I was about 27, because I was finishing up my college work a little older, I got a job as a business to business telemarketer selling long-distance calling plans. Only the old people remember that. Long-distance numbers, we had to dial in the number and then connect to it, and then we could dial the number we wanted to dial, and then we had to put in another code. It was ridiculous. Anyway, I was amazing at that.
 About a week in, because it was a big project and they had to hire about anybody who could breathe, they promoted me to supervisor. I had ten, anywhere from about 18-23-year-old, women, most had no sales experience whatsoever. They had a handset to. Call on, and I had a monitoring phone with a handset. This started naturally, but it became systematized that as I was listening to their call, they would miss these opportunities that they would think were objections. I’d go over and whisper in their ear what to say, and it would turn the conversation around. I’d only have to do that a few times before they got the feel for it themselves. The timing of answering an objection, what to say, how to say it, to use the analogy of a tennis game, to keep the tennis ball going back over the net. All you need to do is hit the ball one more time over the net than they do, and you get the sale, right?
 Anyway, we were the top team every week. I ended up managing that entire program including instituting a statistical quality control program where we could statistically score the presentations. As I listened to hundreds and thousands of these calls, I built up over time an instinct in terms of what keeps the conversation going and what shuts down the conversation. With each script accordingly, put it back on the floor, listen and test and measure statistically again. This is program after program. I opened a call center for the company. I ran that for the company. It wasn’t very much longer before I was managing these five outbound, mostly business to business call centers. I picked that up.
 I have done a lot of inside sales, but I have also done key account selling to major corporations like Citibank and AT&amp;T. I had a great set of clients that I managed on the east coast as a business account executive for a national company, as well as experience as a chamber of commerce president. That gave me some insight into the nonprofit world. The way that they were selling memberships and donations was terrible. I think a lot of that will apply. We may talk about that and how it applies to a nonprofit.
 We focus on that word “nonprofit” to the exclusion of the word that follows it. Nonprofit business. Right? Sales is still a very important part of any nonprofit business, at least that’s what I see.
 Hugh: Oh, yes.  
 Clay: I also was hired by a company to take their seminar marketing channel. We took that from about 300,000 to about 3.5 million in about three years. We also earned an Inc. 500 award along the way. That was an amazing experience.
 But these principles of sales growth I think are universal. 33 years of sales management experience, there is not a lot of sales situations I haven’t seen. There is not a lot of sales problems I haven’t coached salespeople through. There is not a lot of deals gone sideways. You see patterns. There is a handful of things that you can correct as you start to categorize them and understand what’s at the heart of the problem. That’s a little bit about my background. Been heavy into networking and building business by building these relationships and partnerships and leveraging relationships I already have to bring new sales relationships. Been doing that very well. Of course, as a chamber of commerce president, that was my stock and trade. That’s why I’m here.
 Hugh: Love it. Let me reframe what you just said. We, meaning Russ and I and those of us at SynerVision Leadership Foundation, spend a lot of effort working with people to understand why this so-called nonprofit (by the way, that is the only organization that I know of that constantly defines itself by what it’s not), we describe ourselves by what it’s not, but really, we are a tax-exempt business. There are strict rules about what happens with that money flow. We have hit on a crucial point. We need to install good, sound business principles into this charity we run.
 I think we all melt down when we are raising equity money or a business, trying to pitch a new product. It’s not our thing, we think. What’s the biggest challenge with people selling- We are selling an event we are doing, we are selling a sponsorship, we are selling donors or grant-makers on why they should fund an initiative. What do you find is the biggest hang-up with anybody, but most especially those running this tax-exempt charity we were talking about?
 Clay: The biggest thing I see in nonprofits is we are so utterly convinced that our donors, our sponsors are the ones that are doing us the favor, that the value is only flowing one way. In a sense, it’s not selling, it’s more begging. It feels like that sometimes, you know? But if you go from the assumption that doggone it, this sponsorship has value, you start to look at it from the aspect that what I have to offer solves a problem, not only for the people my charity serves, but for my sponsors. What is that problem that sponsors have that make them pay money for a sponsorship? Well, the best way to do that is ask your best sponsors. What are they getting out of this? Why do they spend the money? What problem does it solve for them?
 When I first took over the chamber of commerce, we had a sales guy that would go out and basically shame people into joining the chamber of commerce because the chamber of commerce did so much good in advocating business interests within this city. They should be part of that. You can see why membership was lacking. I turned it around and said, “Why would a business owner pay money to become a member of the chamber of commerce? What are we doing for them?” The question was turned around. Not why aren’t you a member of the chamber that does so much good for businesses in general, but the question then became: What are you trying to accomplish in the Murray City area? Tell me what you are trying to get to here. Who do you need to connect with? What do you need to put out there? What constituencies do you want to be more exposed to? What do you want to accomplish here? We talk about their business objectives. In that, we found several ways that chamber membership could help them meet their objectives, could solve problems. We had to begin the discussion in terms of what do they want their business to be, what are their goals and objectives?
 Once you speak to your biggest donors and sponsors, you will find the problems that you solve for them. Then as you approach potential sponsors and potential donors, the questions that you ask evolve around those potential problems. You can ask them in what I call “Have you ever” form. “Have you ever wanted to be more connected in the community? Have you ever thought that it’s not just about making money, but it’s about giving money away so that you can save money on taxes, too? Just talk about it from their interest rather than the interest of the nonprofit first.
 Now, that being said, what nonprofits offer is also a huge psychological and emotional value exchange. People want to give back. We want to talk about how they feel about that and what some of their objectives are. What criteria do they have in terms of giving and sponsoring? What availability do they have as far as time and money? These kinds of questions are coming in and exploring a little bit where they are.
 I spent two years on an LDS mission in Japan. Basically, what I was doing there was trying to persuade people about an anthropomorphic god to a culture that believes in a very mystical, pantheistic concept of God. I had to start from where they were. I had to start from their understanding of the word we used for God. A word that might not have had the same meaning to me that it had to them. I had to start with their meaning. We have to come at them from their interest, from their language, just like in any sales situation. But we should not be coming at it from the aspect that we have nothing to offer them, that there is nothing they get out of this sponsorship, and they are just doing it out of the kindness of their heart, and that’s it. We are doing as much of a favor for them as they are for us. That is why it is a value for value exchange.
 Does that make sense, or am I just rambling here? I never know. My wife says, “All right, Clay, we get it.”
 Hugh: I am going to go to Russell. Russell comes up with this topic often. Not only in raising money, he is an expert at creating value propositions and attracting money, but also in recruiting board members. Russ, talk a little bit about the conversation is like in finding out what they are looking for.
 Russell: I am glad there is people out there that embrace that dreaded “v” word. When you get in nonprofit circles, it’s a word that nobody utters. I went to an event put on by a chamber of commerce where they actually had nonprofits pitch what they were doing. At the first annual event we had zero out of 12 nonprofits mention the word “value.” Value is what you bring to the table. Values are what drives you, what is at the root of everything you do. It’s very important to look at values as well as value. That by the way, I have four steps to building a high-performance nonprofit. Step four is clearly communicating the value you bring. You have to do that in language that resonates with the person you are talking to. It could be a board member, a volunteer, an advisor, people getting your services. Value is in the ear of the beholder. You are talking to them about how you solve their problem, and everybody has a different thing they are interested in. It’s finding that.
 Part of that is being clear about who you are. Communicating that in terms that are meaningful to them so that they see you as somebody that can help them. You are offering a partnership. We are partnering and collaborating to solve this problem. It’s not a hat and hand process. Nobody gets any training on any of this. We are all selling. We are solving problems, but somehow this notion of selling makes us feel like used car salespeople, not that they are unethical.
 I know a couple of folks here. There is a young lady by the name of Lisa Malick, a good friend of mine, his wife. I know a young salesman here in the Denver area, a six-figure salesman, Aaron Cabot, my godson. He and Lisa could sell shoes to a man or woman with no feet. It all seems like it’s a mystical, magical skill, but it sounds like it’s something, too, that could be taught. I think our relationship with money has an impact on how we approach sales. What has been your experience with that kind of dynamic? How does that impact you?
 Clay: I said it a little differently, but it’s music to my ears when you said value is in the ear of the beholder. I teach that value only exists in one place, and that is behind the eyes and between the ears of the perspective relationship that you are trying to form. And only there is the value of what we’re offering found. It has nothing to do with the price of what we’re offering, other than the fact that the value had better be greater than the price or you’re going nowhere.
 How do you establish value? Are we conversant in the language of the donor or the sponsor who are often coming at it from a “business” decision? The good news is there is no such thing as a business decision. Every decision a businessperson makes is for personal reasons. They may couch it in a business decision, but if a decision is made, it’s for a personal reason. Either they think it will help their situation, help them look good, or help them look better to whomever it is they need to look better to. It may be something that’s important to them intrinsically, a value they have that this will really help and they have established a certain level of contribution or donorship that they either can or want to put toward that value to be seen as a good person, or to have exposure, whatever their motive. Their motive might not always be altruistic. It may be flat “I need a tax exemption, a tax deduction, and if I can make myself look good and get exposure in the community at the same time, well, heck, why not?” We need to know what that is.
 It comes down to asking the right questions in the right sequence so that it’s absolutely not a presentation, but a conversation. I try to teach my clients we don’t have sales presentations; we have sales conversations. We ask questions conversationally. We don’t get into survey mode. We don’t get into interrogation mode. It’s a conversation. There are conditioned responses that we have. As we get into conversations, questions are one of the strongest conditioned responses. We’re asked a question; we just have a conditioned response we need to answer. If we understand the question, if we know the answer to the question, and if the question is easy enough, we will answer it without thinking. In building questioning sequences, we make it so easy for them to answer the questions that they do it without really thinking. We can get to their true thinking that way. Does that make sense?
 Hugh: Can you give us an example of one of those sequences?
 Clay: Here is a typical sales question, and we may put it into multiple- We come into the office, and we sit down with the person, and we say something to this effect, “We are here to save the whales. We think whales are really, really important to our ecology and the health of the planet. We need your help, so how much would you like to give today?” That is our sales question. Either that, or we get into it, and it’s such a complex question. What do you think is the best reason to give for altruistic reasons or tax savings? What is it that you have done in the past? We ask about five or six questions before we let them answer it and they are so confused about what we want to know so they don’t answer.
 But if we go in with a more natural conversation, or even personal style, like if we would if we met somebody at a cocktail party or a birthday party for a cousin or a family reunion or a new cousin-in-law. What do we do? We introduce ourselves, and then we ask them something very easy about themselves, “What do you do, John?” “Oh, really, how long have you been there?” We build question on question on the answer they gave us. We go down that path a little way, asking subsequent questions that clarify the answers they gave us to the original question until we understand that. Then we can change the subject with another question. We might ask the first few questions about what they do. Then we might ask, “Where are you from?” Then we ask a couple of questions about their answer to that. “Oh, I’m from Boise, Idaho.” “Oh really, Boise? Were you born there then?” “No, I was born in Salt Lake City.” “How did you get to Boise?” We might ask a couple of questions that way. As we are doing this little dance of reflective questions and getting the responses, we are so accustomed to giving when we are first introduced to somebody. We are building a foundation of common ground, of trust. We can then escalate those questions incrementally until we can get into some really serious questions that they feel okay answering for us.
 For example, “John, have you ever been a donor before? Have you ever sponsored some charity before? How did that work out for you? Was it a good experience? If not, why? What went wrong, do you think? Do you have any value or intention of looking at sponsoring or donating to nonprofits in the future? If so, what criteria might you use? What causes are important to you? What ones do you tend to align yourself with or align themselves to your values? Which ones are you most interested in?” We start to build a profile of how he gives. “When you give, what was the reason beyond the fact that you wanted to contribute to a worthy cause? What else did you feel you got out of that? Or that you wanted to get out of that?” If we have done our homework and spoken to our best donors and to our best sponsors, and we see a pattern as we talk to ten or twenty of them as to these deep-seated reasons they give, the ones that go beyond their true altruism, we can be ready for a really meaningful discussion. For example, we can ask questions when we get their trust about their tax situation. “What does your tax situation look like this year, John? Are you concerned? Has it been a great year for you and you have a lot more profitability? Do you want to get something out of that other than just giving it to the IRS this year? Tell me about your tax philosophy this year. What’s going on with your business?” We get them to talk about these reasons that we are aware of because we have done our homework talking with our best donors, the ones we want to duplicate, and we can then craft our conversation around the value that our best donors receive so that donors and sponsors like them will be attracted by them. It will be their language. It will be familiar to them. Does that make sense?
 Hugh: I love it. There are a couple of things that are underneath what you’re talking about. One of the most common problems that Russell and I see when we interact with these organizations, either clergy or nonprofit executive directors, is burn-out. We are talking to these people now, these executive directors or clergy, and we are telling them this is what they need to do. There is another piece of this. We burned out because we over-function. We are doing things that could be delegated. We can blame the board for making us do things or not do things. It’s our fault because we are doing things for them that they should be doing.
 This is a two-prong question. What advice do you have for these leaders that are listening to this? What can they do to then teach their stakeholders, which would include board members, staff, others, to make presentations and be part of that?
 What does it say on your shirt? I know you have a good program that people can walk through and learn. We are not here to sell stuff, but it’s an awesome program that I think would get people a good leg up on us. So tell people what’s on your shirt and how people can find that. This is a very tricky topic that we all get stuck in.
 Clay: You mean my spaghetti stain right there? Just kidding.
 Hugh: Right there on your shirt.
 Clay: That’s my logo: Personal Sales Dynamics. I call it Personal Sales Dynamics because my mission is to put the personal back in sales. When we form relationships on a personal level, we almost always do it better than we do when we are doing it on a business level. It’s natural to us. Somehow we get it right. We are able to make friends. We don’t feel unnatural about it like we are pushing ourselves on somebody. If you are selling like you are pushing yourself on people, you are not selling the most effective way. Just like when I met my wife, I didn’t go up to her and say, “Hey, what are you doing next Friday night? I have a chapel set aside in Las Vegas.” I asked her to dance. Then, would you like another dance? Would you like to go to lunch? Would you like to get ice cream? Would you like to go to dinner? Then she invites me over to her place for dinner. Then we keep going out. Pretty soon, we fall in love. Then I reach a point where I want to trust her with everything I am and everything I have, and 32 years later we are still happily married. But I didn’t get there overnight.
 The best business relationships are built incrementally, too. We can speed that up. We can make it more effective. We can systematize it so that we can get there the most sure and quick way we can. But we don’t want to cross the line of putting too much out there, much more than they want, at any given stage so that we push them away. Does that make sense? Sales isn’t about pushing; it’s about sucking. I mean that by creating a vacuum if they are interested in what you are saying, they will be sucked into it.
 Hugh: That’s not what I mean when I say I suck at sales.
 Clay: In the way I am talking about it, that’s a good thing. I have seen people that suck at sales the other way, too. It’s usually because they are pushing, not sucking. It’s not being a milquetoast by the way. It’s not asserting yourself into the conversation. It’s doing it in such a way that you’re inviting them to self-qualify. In other words, there is a lot of talk in sales about how you have to be good at qualifying your potential clients. No, I am terrible at it. I have never going to be as good as qualifying potential customers as they are in qualifying themselves. I just have to give them the opportunities to do that. What opportunities can you give them at a little level to see how interested they are?
 It’s one of the reasons that a lot of my business is based on free stuff at the beginning. Would you like four chapters of my book for free? I know that if they don’t take that, if they are not interested in four chapters of my book for free, I’m wasting my time talking to them about buying a whole book, or engaging in me for a 13-week 1:1 coaching regimen. If they qualify for that, ah, okay, I follow up after they have read it, “Have you read it?” “No, I haven’t.” “Oh, okay, I thought that was interesting to you.” “Oh, it is. I have just been busy.” “Do you still intend to read it?” “Sure.” “Let me call you next week and see what you think. That would be helpful if you could give me some feedback. Do you think you could do that? If I called you next week.” “Sure.” I call them back in another week and they still haven’t read it. What am I learning? They haven’t continued to self-qualify. I found the extent of their interest.
 But if after the first week I call them and they go, “That was awesome. I want the whole book.” “That’s great, here is a link to order it. You might also be interested in some of my online training. Let me hook you up on a couple free videos and see how those work out for you. Sound good?” “Oh great. I can’t wait to get the link.” He gets the book and the link, and I follow up in another couple of weeks. He goes, “When can I get some more videos? That was awesome.” But if he says, “I’m sorry. I’ve been so busy. I haven’t had the chance to do that.” I call two weeks later and same thing. What does that tell me? When I do a free seminar, what does it tell me when somebody hasn’t given me their money but they have given me their time? That says a lot. They have self-qualified.
 What can we put into our recruitment process for donors, for board members, for whatever? Give them an opportunity, an invitation. If they are interested at all, they will step toward you. Then what is the next step? What is the next step of invitation? If you have asked the right questions that heighten and help them understand they are interested, this is a value to them. they will keep stepping forward. Sometimes we just ask far too much too soon. That I think is one of the biggest downfalls in selling is that lack of sensitivity of what they are ready to commit to.
 When I take on a partner, they want to go big and get excited about taking it to Vegas, I’m like, “Look, why don’t we try one client back and forth and see how that works and see how we like working with each other? I would propose our next step be I’ll refer a client to you and you work with them, you refer one of yours to me and I’ll work with them. After we’re done, let’s reconvene and see how that worked out. I would really love to expand this. I want to make sure we understand the best ways to work together. Don’t you think the best way to do that is to start with the first step?” I don’t like to say something small. I like to work it out on a small scale before we expand it. Think big, start small, test, test, test, test, validate, duplicate, accelerate.
 Hugh: Another way of saying that is you can do one in a row.
 Russell, what’s cooking in that brain of yours? What are you hearing? Do you have a question for our guest?
 Russell: This is all great stuff. Relationships are what it’s all about, and everything is personal. It’s a courtship. This is one thing that is pretty commonly overlooked, like in the grant space for example. There are a lot of private foundations out there, and a lot of people will go out there cold and send a proposal to a private foundation. The better path is to pick up the phone and ask for a few minutes with one of the program officers after you have looked through their material and done some homework to see, Okay, let’s look at what they funded last year, what they say their priorities are because when you ask that program officer for that 10 or 15 minutes, you want to find out what’s not on the requirements page. Dig a little deeper and ask them some questions. You might even have a project in mind as you are asking the questions. You mention that program, “Does this sound like it would fit with your priorities?” If they say yes, “Oh, would it be okay for me to send a proposal?” Even though they are open, you are asking. What you are doing is checking where what it is you want to do fits with their priorities. It’s really all about finding their priorities, and that takes some time and patience. But it’s well worth the effort because finding out what a good project looks like for these folks will save you a lot of time and aggravation, and it will save them a lot of time and aggravation. That time could be put to a better purpose.
 For relationships, there are some essential relationships that a business would need. What are some essential relationships that a nonprofit would need?
 Clay: Is that a question?
 Russell: Yes, sir.
 Clay: I think the relationships are very much the same. We just have different names for them with the nonprofit. We have customers and clients. Depending on the nonprofit, they may term those different ways. In some nonprofits, the people being served are sometimes called clients. I am on the board of a nonprofit that works with people getting out of incarceration, particularly for drug-related offenses. We get them jobs, and they actually pay a lot of their way. We call them clients. But we also have donors and sponsors, which a business would call customers or clients. They are the ones that give the money in, right? We have vendors. We have people we buy stuff from, much like a business because we are a business. We need partners. We need referral partners, affiliate partners. We need financial partners, just like a business does. Banks, credit unions, financial institutions, as well as investors, which could be something different than donor in the nonprofit world. But the relationships all revolve around four things, which are the cornerstones of all relationships, whether you are in business or personal relationships, nonprofit or for-profit.
 First, there has to be a common ground of mutual interest. Something has got to be important to both people, both parties. They share that value. They share that interest.
 Second comes mutual trust. Without that trust, there is nothing. One of the best ways of teaching people they can trust you is this instinct that you need to build in terms of how much of you they want to take at any given time. We trust those boundaries. They feel they can trust us with those boundaries. As the relationship grows, they relax those boundaries or expand those boundaries, and the relationships grows. Interest, trust.
 Third is mutual respect. For the relationship to continue to grow, there has got to be that respect for each other, which goes beyond just liking each other or having something in common. You admire the other person to a certain extent.
 Lastly, a value for value exchange. If I am not giving value in a relationship, and the other person is, two things will happen. One of two things, or maybe both sequentially. Either they will cut back the value they are giving to me, or the priority of giving me value, or they will stop giving me value altogether and the relationship will either go dormant, or if it is so egregiously uneven and so adamantly by one party I’m not going to participate in giving you value but I expect value from you, that may be damaged irreparably. We have relationships all the time where we like the person, but events have separated us a little bit. We meet them a year or two down the road, and it’s like no time has gone by. That flame restarts immediately if those other three things were there: the respect, the trust, and the common interest. If we still have that common interest, it can be renovated very quickly.
 Those are the things that really are at the foundation. Are we building a long-term relationship? For example, I do this in my book and on my tapes, I talk about the difference between what I call a finite relationship and an infinite relationship. I got this from a book by a man named James Carse,Finite and Infinite Games: Life is Play and Possibility. In that, he talks about how we play two kinds of games. Finite games are those games which we play to bring to an end with a winner and a loser. But the whole purpose is to end the game once we start playing.
 Infinite games are different. They are engaged in, and the whole purpose of the game is, to continue play. As long as people continue to play, all players are winning. Instead of playing within a set of boundaries like a finite game, we continually negotiate the boundaries to keep the game going. Does that make sense?
 A lot of people in sales attack sales as a finite game. “I’m starting this, Oh, good, we are in the process, then I want to close this and shut it down, and I win. I got your money!” I remember a sales manager told me, “Sales is war!” I don’t know, but I don’t like that model. I don’t like scorched earth. I want relationships that are going to pay me forever because I am providing value. What I am providing is much less of value to me than it is to them. What they are giving me is of much more value to me than it is to them. Then we are both winning. And it continues. That is the best way to do games.
 Hugh: Let me interject in here. Joyce White Nelson says on here, “Conversational sales builds rapport. Then we are able to come back later.” You are talking about that.
 Clay, I want to get back to this leadership piece. We are an influencer as a leader. We are sitting in the influence seat with our stakeholders. I know I have seen one of your digital programs, which is quite good. I don’t remember how I got there or what platform it was on, but I am thinking the stuff you are talking about, the leaders that are listening to this can then be empowered to- Actually, we are selling the concept to our board members that they need to get off their parking lot and do something. There is a sales piece to convince them what they are supposed to be doing anyway. It means we have to sell them the concept, sell volunteers on the concept. There is still the same principle of value exchange here. You have some tools for those people to share, and then they can help educate those people around them. It’s not only the leader that does this. In fact, we are the leader, not the doer.
 Clay: Exactly. If you want to define leadership, I like to define it this way. Leadership is getting all the right things done through other people. Good leaders get things done through other people. They don’t talk about getting it done; they don’t think about getting it done; they don’t circumlocute around getting it done; they get it done. But it gets done through other people. They have that capacity to make it of such value to the person they are delegating to and the belief that it is such a meaningful thing to the person they are delegating to that they can’t help but do it. That is leadership. Whenever we are trying to get somebody to get something done, we are leading. Guess what? That is also selling. Selling is leadership. I am trying to motivate another person to make a commitment and do something, whether that is write me a check, or whether that is let’s schedule a common webinar, or whether that is will you be on our board? Whatever it is you are asking them to do is the sale. I don’t like to have sales presentations. I like to have sales conversations. I don’t like to close sales. I like to commence relationships where we get things done.
 Hugh: Awesome. You sound like you are on a soapbox there, but I am going to Amen all of that.
 Clay, as we round out this really helpful interview, what do you want to leave people with?
 Clay: A couple of things. Number one, the biggest reason salespeople fail—I have 33 years of sales management, I found this to be true—they simply do not contact enough people. If I can do anything for success in nonprofit or profit, you have got to totally change your paradigm for how many people it takes to meet your donation and sponsorship goals. You just simply must contact more people. I call this exposure is everything. Get out there, press the flesh, go to networking events, and meet people.
 Secondly, fortune is in the follow-up. Now, you don’t need to follow up face-to-face. That takes too much time sometimes. But that is what you have systems for. It’s a one-to-many channel follow-up that takes no more time to send ten out than a million. Or you know, relatively speaking. That one-to-many channel of keeping in touch with people highly leverages your ability to do so. Invite them in those messages, in your newsletters, in those letters that you send to keep top-of-mind awareness. Invite them to take a step in. That is follow-up. What dictates when they are ready to buy? It’s not what we say. They don’t even determine the timing of it. Most of the time, it is some event in their life that takes place that determines that. We have got to be top-of-mind when that happens so that they think of us and come in.
 The third is work with the willing. The ones that step forward to you look for that next step. Everybody you’re selling to should not go, you should not part with them without having clearly defined our next step. “John, what is our next step?” This kind of language is so critical. If he says, “Let’s get together,” “Okay, as long as we are here, what time next week would be good to get together?” And you commit it. Sales as in leadership is nothing more than getting commitment from the other person.
 Hugh: Clay Neves. You’re good at what you do. It’s called Personal Sales Dynamics.com. Thank you so much for sharing such a wealth of practical information today.
 Russell, good to have you here today.
 Russell: Clay, thanks a million. It’s keeping that conversation going so that we always know what that is, what those folks want needs to get done. When we are in constant communication, we know what it is.
 Hugh: Two brilliant guys. Thanks for being here today.
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        <![CDATA[<p>We all need money to run the nonprofit that we lead, however many of us are timid when it comes to asking donors for funding. Clay will help to shift that paradigm in today's interview. He will teach the skills he shares with top business executives on closing sales so that we, as nonprofit leaders can approach donors with confidence.</p> <p><a href="http://personalsalesdynamics.com/"></a></p> <p><strong>Clay Neves</strong>, is Owner of Personal Sales Dynamics, a consulting and coaching firm that empowers small business owners to attract, engage, convert and retain the variety of business relationships their businesses need to survive and thrive.  He has over 33 years of sales management, VP of Sales, and Chamber of Commerce Executive experience, working with Fortune 500 companies and small businesses alike, Clay  has consistently multiplied sales results using the variety of prosperity relationships.  In fact, he increased sales for one multi-million dollar post-secondary vocational training school by almost 900% in just 3.5 years, resulting in an Inc. 500 award for that company.  He conducts monthly networking clinics for several Chambers of Commerce. He also serves as Club President for CEO Space International Utah Chapter.  He is a master wordsmith in business and personal life, and is a student of language and words and an avid writer of prose and poetry.  His book, A Wealth of Friends, 7 Essential Relationships Your Business Needs to Survive and Thrive is schedule for release the end of May.  He lives in the Salt Lake City area with his wife of 32 years.</p> <p>More about Clay Neves at <a href="http://personalsalesdynamics.com/">http://personalsalesdynamics.com</a></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Here's the Transcript for the Interview</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> We are going to talk about a delicate subject today. It’s money. I hear money come up a lot. People want to raise money for their enterprise but are bound up with the words or the fear of asking for money or the fear of rejection, or maybe we don’t think we should be asking for money because we positioned it wrong in our brains.</p> <p>Russell, we’re back together again. It’s Tuesday at 2, and we are broadcasting live. How are you?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> It’s a beautiful day out here in Denver. All is well. Yes, this is a great subject because the reality with money is that everybody has a relationship with it. Your personal relationship could impact your work, so we’ll talk about that today.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I met this gentleman recently. I watched his program on one of the learning platforms, and it’s a really well-done program. We had a chat just a couple weeks ago at CEO Space, and I got to know Clay. We spoke last week and learned more. I said, “Why don’t you come on and talk about this topic to nonprofit leaders?” We hit the wall when it comes to having the conversation about money.</p> <p>Let’s introduce Clay Neves. Clay is our guest today. Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em></p> <p><strong>Clay Neves:</strong> It’s good to be here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tell people a little bit about yourself and your background and why you’re doing this.</p> <p><strong>Clay:</strong> I started out in sales at the ripe old age of 12. My mom bought me a suit, thought it might be good for me to learn how to sell. She bought me <em>How to Win Friends and Influence People.</em> I read it. She taught me four things on how to contact people. It’s probably the most important sales training I’ve had in my entire life. Basically, eye to eye contact, then smile, then shake, then, “Hello, my name is Clay. What’s yours?” then ask them a question. Keep asking them questions about themselves. People love to talk about themselves. Go forth and sell these greeting cards. And I did.</p> <p>I had various sales jobs. When I was about 27, because I was finishing up my college work a little older, I got a job as a business to business telemarketer selling long-distance calling plans. Only the old people remember that. Long-distance numbers, we had to dial in the number and then connect to it, and then we could dial the number we wanted to dial, and then we had to put in another code. It was ridiculous. Anyway, I was amazing at that.</p> <p>About a week in, because it was a big project and they had to hire about anybody who could breathe, they promoted me to supervisor. I had ten, anywhere from about 18-23-year-old, women, most had no sales experience whatsoever. They had a handset to. Call on, and I had a monitoring phone with a handset. This started naturally, but it became systematized that as I was listening to their call, they would miss these opportunities that they would think were objections. I’d go over and whisper in their ear what to say, and it would turn the conversation around. I’d only have to do that a few times before they got the feel for it themselves. The timing of answering an objection, what to say, how to say it, to use the analogy of a tennis game, to keep the tennis ball going back over the net. All you need to do is hit the ball one more time over the net than they do, and you get the sale, right?</p> <p>Anyway, we were the top team every week. I ended up managing that entire program including instituting a statistical quality control program where we could statistically score the presentations. As I listened to hundreds and thousands of these calls, I built up over time an instinct in terms of what keeps the conversation going and what shuts down the conversation. With each script accordingly, put it back on the floor, listen and test and measure statistically again. This is program after program. I opened a call center for the company. I ran that for the company. It wasn’t very much longer before I was managing these five outbound, mostly business to business call centers. I picked that up.</p> <p>I have done a lot of inside sales, but I have also done key account selling to major corporations like Citibank and AT&amp;T. I had a great set of clients that I managed on the east coast as a business account executive for a national company, as well as experience as a chamber of commerce president. That gave me some insight into the nonprofit world. The way that they were selling memberships and donations was terrible. I think a lot of that will apply. We may talk about that and how it applies to a nonprofit.</p> <p>We focus on that word “nonprofit” to the exclusion of the word that follows it. Nonprofit business. Right? Sales is still a very important part of any nonprofit business, at least that’s what I see.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh, yes. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Clay:</strong> I also was hired by a company to take their seminar marketing channel. We took that from about 300,000 to about 3.5 million in about three years. We also earned an Inc. 500 award along the way. That was an amazing experience.</p> <p>But these principles of sales growth I think are universal. 33 years of sales management experience, there is not a lot of sales situations I haven’t seen. There is not a lot of sales problems I haven’t coached salespeople through. There is not a lot of deals gone sideways. You see patterns. There is a handful of things that you can correct as you start to categorize them and understand what’s at the heart of the problem. That’s a little bit about my background. Been heavy into networking and building business by building these relationships and partnerships and leveraging relationships I already have to bring new sales relationships. Been doing that very well. Of course, as a chamber of commerce president, that was my stock and trade. That’s why I’m here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. Let me reframe what you just said. We, meaning Russ and I and those of us at SynerVision Leadership Foundation, spend a lot of effort working with people to understand why this so-called nonprofit (by the way, that is the only organization that I know of that constantly defines itself by what it’s not), we describe ourselves by what it’s not, but really, we are a tax-exempt business. There are strict rules about what happens with that money flow. We have hit on a crucial point. We need to install good, sound business principles into this charity we run.</p> <p>I think we all melt down when we are raising equity money or a business, trying to pitch a new product. It’s not our thing, we think. What’s the biggest challenge with people selling- We are selling an event we are doing, we are selling a sponsorship, we are selling donors or grant-makers on why they should fund an initiative. What do you find is the biggest hang-up with anybody, but most especially those running this tax-exempt charity we were talking about?</p> <p><strong>Clay:</strong> The biggest thing I see in nonprofits is we are so utterly convinced that our donors, our sponsors are the ones that are doing us the favor, that the value is only flowing one way. In a sense, it’s not selling, it’s more begging. It feels like that sometimes, you know? But if you go from the assumption that doggone it, this sponsorship has value, you start to look at it from the aspect that what I have to offer solves a problem, not only for the people my charity serves, but for my sponsors. What is that problem that sponsors have that make them pay money for a sponsorship? Well, the best way to do that is ask your best sponsors. What are they getting out of this? Why do they spend the money? What problem does it solve for them?</p> <p>When I first took over the chamber of commerce, we had a sales guy that would go out and basically shame people into joining the chamber of commerce because the chamber of commerce did so much good in advocating business interests within this city. They should be part of that. You can see why membership was lacking. I turned it around and said, “Why would a business owner pay money to become a member of the chamber of commerce? What are we doing for them?” The question was turned around. Not why aren’t you a member of the chamber that does so much good for businesses in general, but the question then became: What are you trying to accomplish in the Murray City area? Tell me what you are trying to get to here. Who do you need to connect with? What do you need to put out there? What constituencies do you want to be more exposed to? What do you want to accomplish here? We talk about their business objectives. In that, we found several ways that chamber membership could help them meet their objectives, could solve problems. We had to begin the discussion in terms of what do they want their business to be, what are their goals and objectives?</p> <p>Once you speak to your biggest donors and sponsors, you will find the problems that you solve for them. Then as you approach potential sponsors and potential donors, the questions that you ask evolve around those potential problems. You can ask them in what I call “Have you ever” form. “Have you ever wanted to be more connected in the community? Have you ever thought that it’s not just about making money, but it’s about giving money away so that you can save money on taxes, too? Just talk about it from their interest rather than the interest of the nonprofit first.</p> <p>Now, that being said, what nonprofits offer is also a huge psychological and emotional value exchange. People want to give back. We want to talk about how they feel about that and what some of their objectives are. What criteria do they have in terms of giving and sponsoring? What availability do they have as far as time and money? These kinds of questions are coming in and exploring a little bit where they are.</p> <p>I spent two years on an LDS mission in Japan. Basically, what I was doing there was trying to persuade people about an anthropomorphic god to a culture that believes in a very mystical, pantheistic concept of God. I had to start from where they were. I had to start from their understanding of the word we used for God. A word that might not have had the same meaning to me that it had to them. I had to start with their meaning. We have to come at them from their interest, from their language, just like in any sales situation. But we should not be coming at it from the aspect that we have nothing to offer them, that there is nothing they get out of this sponsorship, and they are just doing it out of the kindness of their heart, and that’s it. We are doing as much of a favor for them as they are for us. That is why it is a value for value exchange.</p> <p>Does that make sense, or am I just rambling here? I never know. My wife says, “All right, Clay, we get it.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I am going to go to Russell. Russell comes up with this topic often. Not only in raising money, he is an expert at creating value propositions and attracting money, but also in recruiting board members. Russ, talk a little bit about the conversation is like in finding out what they are looking for.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I am glad there is people out there that embrace that dreaded “v” word. When you get in nonprofit circles, it’s a word that nobody utters. I went to an event put on by a chamber of commerce where they actually had nonprofits pitch what they were doing. At the first annual event we had zero out of 12 nonprofits mention the word “value.” Value is what you bring to the table. Values are what drives you, what is at the root of everything you do. It’s very important to look at values as well as value. That by the way, I have four steps to building a high-performance nonprofit. Step four is clearly communicating the value you bring. You have to do that in language that resonates with the person you are talking to. It could be a board member, a volunteer, an advisor, people getting your services. Value is in the ear of the beholder. You are talking to them about how you solve their problem, and everybody has a different thing they are interested in. It’s finding that.</p> <p>Part of that is being clear about who you are. Communicating that in terms that are meaningful to them so that they see you as somebody that can help them. You are offering a partnership. We are partnering and collaborating to solve this problem. It’s not a hat and hand process. Nobody gets any training on any of this. We are all selling. We are solving problems, but somehow this notion of selling makes us feel like used car salespeople, not that they are unethical.</p> <p>I know a couple of folks here. There is a young lady by the name of Lisa Malick, a good friend of mine, his wife. I know a young salesman here in the Denver area, a six-figure salesman, Aaron Cabot, my godson. He and Lisa could sell shoes to a man or woman with no feet. It all seems like it’s a mystical, magical skill, but it sounds like it’s something, too, that could be taught. I think our relationship with money has an impact on how we approach sales. What has been your experience with that kind of dynamic? How does that impact you?</p> <p><strong>Clay:</strong> I said it a little differently, but it’s music to my ears when you said value is in the ear of the beholder. I teach that value only exists in one place, and that is behind the eyes and between the ears of the perspective relationship that you are trying to form. And only there is the value of what we’re offering found. It has nothing to do with the price of what we’re offering, other than the fact that the value had better be greater than the price or you’re going nowhere.</p> <p>How do you establish value? Are we conversant in the language of the donor or the sponsor who are often coming at it from a “business” decision? The good news is there is no such thing as a business decision. Every decision a businessperson makes is for personal reasons. They may couch it in a business decision, but if a decision is made, it’s for a personal reason. Either they think it will help their situation, help them look good, or help them look better to whomever it is they need to look better to. It may be something that’s important to them intrinsically, a value they have that this will really help and they have established a certain level of contribution or donorship that they either can or want to put toward that value to be seen as a good person, or to have exposure, whatever their motive. Their motive might not always be altruistic. It may be flat “I need a tax exemption, a tax deduction, and if I can make myself look good and get exposure in the community at the same time, well, heck, why not?” We need to know what that is.</p> <p>It comes down to asking the right questions in the right sequence so that it’s absolutely not a presentation, but a conversation. I try to teach my clients we don’t have sales presentations; we have sales conversations. We ask questions conversationally. We don’t get into survey mode. We don’t get into interrogation mode. It’s a conversation. There are conditioned responses that we have. As we get into conversations, questions are one of the strongest conditioned responses. We’re asked a question; we just have a conditioned response we need to answer. If we understand the question, if we know the answer to the question, and if the question is easy enough, we will answer it without thinking. In building questioning sequences, we make it so easy for them to answer the questions that they do it without really thinking. We can get to their true thinking that way. Does that make sense?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Can you give us an example of one of those sequences?</p> <p><strong>Clay:</strong> Here is a typical sales question, and we may put it into multiple- We come into the office, and we sit down with the person, and we say something to this effect, “We are here to save the whales. We think whales are really, really important to our ecology and the health of the planet. We need your help, so how much would you like to give today?” That is our sales question. Either that, or we get into it, and it’s such a complex question. What do you think is the best reason to give for altruistic reasons or tax savings? What is it that you have done in the past? We ask about five or six questions before we let them answer it and they are so confused about what we want to know so they don’t answer.</p> <p>But if we go in with a more natural conversation, or even personal style, like if we would if we met somebody at a cocktail party or a birthday party for a cousin or a family reunion or a new cousin-in-law. What do we do? We introduce ourselves, and then we ask them something very easy about themselves, “What do you do, John?” “Oh, really, how long have you been there?” We build question on question on the answer they gave us. We go down that path a little way, asking subsequent questions that clarify the answers they gave us to the original question until we understand that. Then we can change the subject with another question. We might ask the first few questions about what they do. Then we might ask, “Where are you from?” Then we ask a couple of questions about their answer to that. “Oh, I’m from Boise, Idaho.” “Oh really, Boise? Were you born there then?” “No, I was born in Salt Lake City.” “How did you get to Boise?” We might ask a couple of questions that way. As we are doing this little dance of reflective questions and getting the responses, we are so accustomed to giving when we are first introduced to somebody. We are building a foundation of common ground, of trust. We can then escalate those questions incrementally until we can get into some really serious questions that they feel okay answering for us.</p> <p>For example, “John, have you ever been a donor before? Have you ever sponsored some charity before? How did that work out for you? Was it a good experience? If not, why? What went wrong, do you think? Do you have any value or intention of looking at sponsoring or donating to nonprofits in the future? If so, what criteria might you use? What causes are important to you? What ones do you tend to align yourself with or align themselves to your values? Which ones are you most interested in?” We start to build a profile of how he gives. “When you give, what was the reason beyond the fact that you wanted to contribute to a worthy cause? What else did you feel you got out of that? Or that you wanted to get out of that?” If we have done our homework and spoken to our best donors and to our best sponsors, and we see a pattern as we talk to ten or twenty of them as to these deep-seated reasons they give, the ones that go beyond their true altruism, we can be ready for a really meaningful discussion. For example, we can ask questions when we get their trust about their tax situation. “What does your tax situation look like this year, John? Are you concerned? Has it been a great year for you and you have a lot more profitability? Do you want to get something out of that other than just giving it to the IRS this year? Tell me about your tax philosophy this year. What’s going on with your business?” We get them to talk about these reasons that we are aware of because we have done our homework talking with our best donors, the ones we want to duplicate, and we can then craft our conversation around the value that our best donors receive so that donors and sponsors like them will be attracted by them. It will be their language. It will be familiar to them. Does that make sense?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I love it. There are a couple of things that are underneath what you’re talking about. One of the most common problems that Russell and I see when we interact with these organizations, either clergy or nonprofit executive directors, is burn-out. We are talking to these people now, these executive directors or clergy, and we are telling them this is what they need to do. There is another piece of this. We burned out because we over-function. We are doing things that could be delegated. We can blame the board for making us do things or not do things. It’s our fault because we are doing things for them that they should be doing.</p> <p>This is a two-prong question. What advice do you have for these leaders that are listening to this? What can they do to then teach their stakeholders, which would include board members, staff, others, to make presentations and be part of that?</p> <p>What does it say on your shirt? I know you have a good program that people can walk through and learn. We are not here to sell stuff, but it’s an awesome program that I think would get people a good leg up on us. So tell people what’s on your shirt and how people can find that. This is a very tricky topic that we all get stuck in.</p> <p><strong>Clay:</strong> You mean my spaghetti stain right there? Just kidding.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Right there on your shirt.</p> <p><strong>Clay:</strong> That’s my logo: Personal Sales Dynamics. I call it Personal Sales Dynamics because my mission is to put the personal back in sales. When we form relationships on a personal level, we almost always do it better than we do when we are doing it on a business level. It’s natural to us. Somehow we get it right. We are able to make friends. We don’t feel unnatural about it like we are pushing ourselves on somebody. If you are selling like you are pushing yourself on people, you are not selling the most effective way. Just like when I met my wife, I didn’t go up to her and say, “Hey, what are you doing next Friday night? I have a chapel set aside in Las Vegas.” I asked her to dance. Then, would you like another dance? Would you like to go to lunch? Would you like to get ice cream? Would you like to go to dinner? Then she invites me over to her place for dinner. Then we keep going out. Pretty soon, we fall in love. Then I reach a point where I want to trust her with everything I am and everything I have, and 32 years later we are still happily married. But I didn’t get there overnight.</p> <p>The best business relationships are built incrementally, too. We can speed that up. We can make it more effective. We can systematize it so that we can get there the most sure and quick way we can. But we don’t want to cross the line of putting too much out there, much more than they want, at any given stage so that we push them away. Does that make sense? Sales isn’t about pushing; it’s about sucking. I mean that by creating a vacuum if they are interested in what you are saying, they will be sucked into it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s not what I mean when I say I suck at sales.</p> <p><strong>Clay:</strong> In the way I am talking about it, that’s a good thing. I have seen people that suck at sales the other way, too. It’s usually because they are pushing, not sucking. It’s not being a milquetoast by the way. It’s not asserting yourself into the conversation. It’s doing it in such a way that you’re inviting them to self-qualify. In other words, there is a lot of talk in sales about how you have to be good at qualifying your potential clients. No, I am terrible at it. I have never going to be as good as qualifying potential customers as they are in qualifying themselves. I just have to give them the opportunities to do that. What opportunities can you give them at a little level to see how interested they are?</p> <p>It’s one of the reasons that a lot of my business is based on free stuff at the beginning. Would you like four chapters of my book for free? I know that if they don’t take that, if they are not interested in four chapters of my book for free, I’m wasting my time talking to them about buying a whole book, or engaging in me for a 13-week 1:1 coaching regimen. If they qualify for that, ah, okay, I follow up after they have read it, “Have you read it?” “No, I haven’t.” “Oh, okay, I thought that was interesting to you.” “Oh, it is. I have just been busy.” “Do you still intend to read it?” “Sure.” “Let me call you next week and see what you think. That would be helpful if you could give me some feedback. Do you think you could do that? If I called you next week.” “Sure.” I call them back in another week and they still haven’t read it. What am I learning? They haven’t continued to self-qualify. I found the extent of their interest.</p> <p>But if after the first week I call them and they go, “That was awesome. I want the whole book.” “That’s great, here is a link to order it. You might also be interested in some of my online training. Let me hook you up on a couple free videos and see how those work out for you. Sound good?” “Oh great. I can’t wait to get the link.” He gets the book and the link, and I follow up in another couple of weeks. He goes, “When can I get some more videos? That was awesome.” But if he says, “I’m sorry. I’ve been so busy. I haven’t had the chance to do that.” I call two weeks later and same thing. What does that tell me? When I do a free seminar, what does it tell me when somebody hasn’t given me their money but they have given me their time? That says a lot. They have self-qualified.</p> <p>What can we put into our recruitment process for donors, for board members, for whatever? Give them an opportunity, an invitation. If they are interested at all, they will step toward you. Then what is the next step? What is the next step of invitation? If you have asked the right questions that heighten and help them understand they are interested, this is a value to them. they will keep stepping forward. Sometimes we just ask far too much too soon. That I think is one of the biggest downfalls in selling is that lack of sensitivity of what they are ready to commit to.</p> <p>When I take on a partner, they want to go big and get excited about taking it to Vegas, I’m like, “Look, why don’t we try one client back and forth and see how that works and see how we like working with each other? I would propose our next step be I’ll refer a client to you and you work with them, you refer one of yours to me and I’ll work with them. After we’re done, let’s reconvene and see how that worked out. I would really love to expand this. I want to make sure we understand the best ways to work together. Don’t you think the best way to do that is to start with the first step?” I don’t like to say something small. I like to work it out on a small scale before we expand it. Think big, start small, test, test, test, test, validate, duplicate, accelerate.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Another way of saying that is you can do one in a row.</p> <p>Russell, what’s cooking in that brain of yours? What are you hearing? Do you have a question for our guest?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is all great stuff. Relationships are what it’s all about, and everything is personal. It’s a courtship. This is one thing that is pretty commonly overlooked, like in the grant space for example. There are a lot of private foundations out there, and a lot of people will go out there cold and send a proposal to a private foundation. The better path is to pick up the phone and ask for a few minutes with one of the program officers after you have looked through their material and done some homework to see, Okay, let’s look at what they funded last year, what they say their priorities are because when you ask that program officer for that 10 or 15 minutes, you want to find out what’s not on the requirements page. Dig a little deeper and ask them some questions. You might even have a project in mind as you are asking the questions. You mention that program, “Does this sound like it would fit with your priorities?” If they say yes, “Oh, would it be okay for me to send a proposal?” Even though they are open, you are asking. What you are doing is checking where what it is you want to do fits with their priorities. It’s really all about finding their priorities, and that takes some time and patience. But it’s well worth the effort because finding out what a good project looks like for these folks will save you a lot of time and aggravation, and it will save them a lot of time and aggravation. That time could be put to a better purpose.</p> <p>For relationships, there are some essential relationships that a business would need. What are some essential relationships that a nonprofit would need?</p> <p><strong>Clay:</strong> Is that a question?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yes, sir.</p> <p><strong>Clay:</strong> I think the relationships are very much the same. We just have different names for them with the nonprofit. We have customers and clients. Depending on the nonprofit, they may term those different ways. In some nonprofits, the people being served are sometimes called clients. I am on the board of a nonprofit that works with people getting out of incarceration, particularly for drug-related offenses. We get them jobs, and they actually pay a lot of their way. We call them clients. But we also have donors and sponsors, which a business would call customers or clients. They are the ones that give the money in, right? We have vendors. We have people we buy stuff from, much like a business because we are a business. We need partners. We need referral partners, affiliate partners. We need financial partners, just like a business does. Banks, credit unions, financial institutions, as well as investors, which could be something different than donor in the nonprofit world. But the relationships all revolve around four things, which are the cornerstones of all relationships, whether you are in business or personal relationships, nonprofit or for-profit.</p> <p>First, there has to be a common ground of mutual interest. Something has got to be important to both people, both parties. They share that value. They share that interest.</p> <p>Second comes mutual trust. Without that trust, there is nothing. One of the best ways of teaching people they can trust you is this instinct that you need to build in terms of how much of you they want to take at any given time. We trust those boundaries. They feel they can trust us with those boundaries. As the relationship grows, they relax those boundaries or expand those boundaries, and the relationships grows. Interest, trust.</p> <p>Third is mutual respect. For the relationship to continue to grow, there has got to be that respect for each other, which goes beyond just liking each other or having something in common. You admire the other person to a certain extent.</p> <p>Lastly, a value for value exchange. If I am not giving value in a relationship, and the other person is, two things will happen. One of two things, or maybe both sequentially. Either they will cut back the value they are giving to me, or the priority of giving me value, or they will stop giving me value altogether and the relationship will either go dormant, or if it is so egregiously uneven and so adamantly by one party I’m not going to participate in giving you value but I expect value from you, that may be damaged irreparably. We have relationships all the time where we like the person, but events have separated us a little bit. We meet them a year or two down the road, and it’s like no time has gone by. That flame restarts immediately if those other three things were there: the respect, the trust, and the common interest. If we still have that common interest, it can be renovated very quickly.</p> <p>Those are the things that really are at the foundation. Are we building a long-term relationship? For example, I do this in my book and on my tapes, I talk about the difference between what I call a finite relationship and an infinite relationship. I got this from a book by a man named James Carse,<em>Finite and Infinite Games: Life is Play and Possibility.</em> In that, he talks about how we play two kinds of games. Finite games are those games which we play to bring to an end with a winner and a loser. But the whole purpose is to end the game once we start playing.</p> <p>Infinite games are different. They are engaged in, and the whole purpose of the game is, to continue play. As long as people continue to play, all players are winning. Instead of playing within a set of boundaries like a finite game, we continually negotiate the boundaries to keep the game going. Does that make sense?</p> <p>A lot of people in sales attack sales as a finite game. “I’m starting this, Oh, good, we are in the process, then I want to close this and shut it down, and I win. I got your money!” I remember a sales manager told me, “Sales is war!” I don’t know, but I don’t like that model. I don’t like scorched earth. I want relationships that are going to pay me forever because I am providing value. What I am providing is much less of value to me than it is to them. What they are giving me is of much more value to me than it is to them. Then we are both winning. And it continues. That is the best way to do games.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Let me interject in here. Joyce White Nelson says on here, “Conversational sales builds rapport. Then we are able to come back later.” You are talking about that.</p> <p>Clay, I want to get back to this leadership piece. We are an influencer as a leader. We are sitting in the influence seat with our stakeholders. I know I have seen one of your digital programs, which is quite good. I don’t remember how I got there or what platform it was on, but I am thinking the stuff you are talking about, the leaders that are listening to this can then be empowered to- Actually, we are selling the concept to our board members that they need to get off their parking lot and do something. There is a sales piece to convince them what they are supposed to be doing anyway. It means we have to sell them the concept, sell volunteers on the concept. There is still the same principle of value exchange here. You have some tools for those people to share, and then they can help educate those people around them. It’s not only the leader that does this. In fact, we are the leader, not the doer.</p> <p><strong>Clay:</strong> Exactly. If you want to define leadership, I like to define it this way. Leadership is getting all the right things done through other people. Good leaders get things done through other people. They don’t talk about getting it done; they don’t think about getting it done; they don’t circumlocute around getting it done; they get it done. But it gets done through other people. They have that capacity to make it of such value to the person they are delegating to and the belief that it is such a meaningful thing to the person they are delegating to that they can’t help but do it. That is leadership. Whenever we are trying to get somebody to get something done, we are leading. Guess what? That is also selling. Selling is leadership. I am trying to motivate another person to make a commitment and do something, whether that is write me a check, or whether that is let’s schedule a common webinar, or whether that is will you be on our board? Whatever it is you are asking them to do is the sale. I don’t like to have sales presentations. I like to have sales conversations. I don’t like to close sales. I like to commence relationships where we get things done.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Awesome. You sound like you are on a soapbox there, but I am going to Amen all of that.</p> <p>Clay, as we round out this really helpful interview, what do you want to leave people with?</p> <p><strong>Clay:</strong> A couple of things. Number one, the biggest reason salespeople fail—I have 33 years of sales management, I found this to be true—they simply do not contact enough people. If I can do anything for success in nonprofit or profit, you have got to totally change your paradigm for how many people it takes to meet your donation and sponsorship goals. You just simply must contact more people. I call this exposure is everything. Get out there, press the flesh, go to networking events, and meet people.</p> <p>Secondly, fortune is in the follow-up. Now, you don’t need to follow up face-to-face. That takes too much time sometimes. But that is what you have systems for. It’s a one-to-many channel follow-up that takes no more time to send ten out than a million. Or you know, relatively speaking. That one-to-many channel of keeping in touch with people highly leverages your ability to do so. Invite them in those messages, in your newsletters, in those letters that you send to keep top-of-mind awareness. Invite them to take a step in. That is follow-up. What dictates when they are ready to buy? It’s not what we say. They don’t even determine the timing of it. Most of the time, it is some event in their life that takes place that determines that. We have got to be top-of-mind when that happens so that they think of us and come in.</p> <p>The third is work with the willing. The ones that step forward to you look for that next step. Everybody you’re selling to should not go, you should not part with them without having clearly defined our next step. “John, what is our next step?” This kind of language is so critical. If he says, “Let’s get together,” “Okay, as long as we are here, what time next week would be good to get together?” And you commit it. Sales as in leadership is nothing more than getting commitment from the other person.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Clay Neves. You’re good at what you do. It’s called Personal Sales Dynamics.com. Thank you so much for sharing such a wealth of practical information today.</p> <p>Russell, good to have you here today.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Clay, thanks a million. It’s keeping that conversation going so that we always know what that is, what those folks want needs to get done. When we are in constant communication, we know what it is.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Two brilliant guys. Thanks for being here today.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Wine and Community for Nonprofits with Ross Halleck</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/wine-and-community-for-nonprofits-with-ross-halleck</link>
      <description>Wine and Community:How Wine Events Build Community and Income with Ross Halleck

 [caption id="attachment_2166" align="alignleft" width="313"]Ross Halleck, Founder of Halleck Vineyard[/caption]
 Ross Halleck, Principal and Founder of Halleck Vineyard is a man of many talents and a colorful history. After traveling halfway around the world with a backpack, in his early 20s, he settled in Western Kenya to teach secondary school in a small village on Lake Victoria.
 Returning to the US, he completed school at UC Santa Cruz in marketing communication and founded a branding agency in 1980 at the birth of Silicon Valley.
 In pursuit of mutual passions, Ross focused his creativity on both high technology and wine with offices in Silicon Valley and Sonoma County.
 In 1992, Ross planted a Pinot Noir vineyard on the Sonoma Coast. His first 2001 vintage was judged the #1 Pinot Noir in the US.
 This launched Halleck Vineyard, which focuses on four varietals: Pinot Noir, Sauvignon Blanc, Dry Gewurztraminer, and it’s newest, a Dry White Zinfandel..
 Between 2016 -2018 alone, Halleck Vineyard earned over 50 medals in 10 national and international competitions.  Most were Gold. Every wine earned a Gold Medal in multiple events.  Halleck Vineyard wines have been featured in multiple wine publications, including the Wine Spectator.
 In 2019, Halleck Vineyard was judged #1 Pinot Noir in North America in the San Francisco Chronicle Wine Competition. This is the largest, oldest and most respected in the country. 7200 wines competed. Further, Halleck Vineyard was awarded not one, but two Best Of Class Awards, for two the two top price categories of Pinot Noir. They were also awarded a Double Gold and Silver in the same year. No other winery in the 40 year history of this competition has achieved this.
 The spirit behind Halleck Vineyard is “Building Community Through Wine.” They accomplish this by:
  Welcome people to their home for private tastings.
 Sharing experiences around the world.
  Supporting philanthropic endeavors that touch their hearts.
  In 2017, Ross Halleck began a partnership with Josh Groban and his Find Your Light Foundation to support education in the arts in the public schools in the United States. Their first vintage, a Halleck Vineyard 2014, Find Your Light, Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir sold out in four months. The 2015 vintage was released at the Find Your Light Foundation Gala in May, 2018. To date, Halleck Vineyard has assisted in raising approximately $200K for the Find Your Light Foundation.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 06 May 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7980cb02-b329-11eb-9f0f-cbcf03dde12d/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>How Wine Events Build Community and Income</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Wine and Community:How Wine Events Build Community and Income with Ross Halleck

 [caption id="attachment_2166" align="alignleft" width="313"]Ross Halleck, Founder of Halleck Vineyard[/caption]
 Ross Halleck, Principal and Founder of Halleck Vineyard is a man of many talents and a colorful history. After traveling halfway around the world with a backpack, in his early 20s, he settled in Western Kenya to teach secondary school in a small village on Lake Victoria.
 Returning to the US, he completed school at UC Santa Cruz in marketing communication and founded a branding agency in 1980 at the birth of Silicon Valley.
 In pursuit of mutual passions, Ross focused his creativity on both high technology and wine with offices in Silicon Valley and Sonoma County.
 In 1992, Ross planted a Pinot Noir vineyard on the Sonoma Coast. His first 2001 vintage was judged the #1 Pinot Noir in the US.
 This launched Halleck Vineyard, which focuses on four varietals: Pinot Noir, Sauvignon Blanc, Dry Gewurztraminer, and it’s newest, a Dry White Zinfandel..
 Between 2016 -2018 alone, Halleck Vineyard earned over 50 medals in 10 national and international competitions.  Most were Gold. Every wine earned a Gold Medal in multiple events.  Halleck Vineyard wines have been featured in multiple wine publications, including the Wine Spectator.
 In 2019, Halleck Vineyard was judged #1 Pinot Noir in North America in the San Francisco Chronicle Wine Competition. This is the largest, oldest and most respected in the country. 7200 wines competed. Further, Halleck Vineyard was awarded not one, but two Best Of Class Awards, for two the two top price categories of Pinot Noir. They were also awarded a Double Gold and Silver in the same year. No other winery in the 40 year history of this competition has achieved this.
 The spirit behind Halleck Vineyard is “Building Community Through Wine.” They accomplish this by:
  Welcome people to their home for private tastings.
 Sharing experiences around the world.
  Supporting philanthropic endeavors that touch their hearts.
  In 2017, Ross Halleck began a partnership with Josh Groban and his Find Your Light Foundation to support education in the arts in the public schools in the United States. Their first vintage, a Halleck Vineyard 2014, Find Your Light, Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir sold out in four months. The 2015 vintage was released at the Find Your Light Foundation Gala in May, 2018. To date, Halleck Vineyard has assisted in raising approximately $200K for the Find Your Light Foundation.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>
<strong>Wine and Community:<br></strong><strong>How Wine Events Build Community and Income<br> with Ross Halleck</strong>
</h1> <p>[caption id="attachment_2166" align="alignleft" width="313"]<strong>Ross Halleck, Founder of Halleck Vineyard</strong>[/caption]</p> <p><strong>Ross Halleck</strong>, Principal and Founder of Halleck Vineyard is a man of many talents and a colorful history. After traveling halfway around the world with a backpack, in his early 20s, he settled in Western Kenya to teach secondary school in a small village on Lake Victoria.</p> <p>Returning to the US, he completed school at UC Santa Cruz in marketing communication and founded a branding agency in 1980 at the birth of Silicon Valley.</p> <p>In pursuit of mutual passions, Ross focused his creativity on both high technology and wine with offices in Silicon Valley and Sonoma County.</p> <p>In 1992, Ross planted a Pinot Noir vineyard on the Sonoma Coast. His first 2001 vintage was judged the #1 Pinot Noir in the US.</p> <p>This launched Halleck Vineyard, which focuses on four varietals: Pinot Noir, Sauvignon Blanc, Dry Gewurztraminer, and it’s newest, a Dry White Zinfandel..</p> <p>Between 2016 -2018 alone, Halleck Vineyard earned over 50 medals in 10 national and international competitions.  Most were Gold. Every wine earned a Gold Medal in multiple events.  Halleck Vineyard wines have been featured in multiple wine publications, including the Wine Spectator.</p> <p>In 2019, Halleck Vineyard was judged #1 Pinot Noir in North America in the San Francisco Chronicle Wine Competition. This is the largest, oldest and most respected in the country. 7200 wines competed. Further, Halleck Vineyard was awarded not one, but two Best Of Class Awards, for two the two top price categories of Pinot Noir. They were also awarded a Double Gold and Silver in the same year. No other winery in the 40 year history of this competition has achieved this.</p> <p>The spirit behind Halleck Vineyard is “Building Community Through Wine.” They accomplish this by:</p> <ol> <li>Welcome people to their home for private tastings.</li> <li>Sharing experiences around the world.</li> <li> Supporting philanthropic endeavors that touch their hearts.</li> </ol> <p>In 2017, Ross Halleck began a partnership with Josh Groban and his Find Your Light Foundation to support education in the arts in the public schools in the United States. Their first vintage, a Halleck Vineyard 2014, Find Your Light, Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir sold out in four months. The 2015 vintage was released at the Find Your Light Foundation Gala in May, 2018. To date, Halleck Vineyard has assisted in raising approximately $200K for the Find Your Light Foundation.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Google AdWords Grant Help with Hank Robinson</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/google-adwords-grant-help-with-hank-robinson</link>
      <description>While attending college in Gainesville, Florida Hank Robinson created and internet marketing software solution. This software provided Environmental Consulting firms with a bidding platform for government proposals. The business grew to cover the entire Southeastern United States and later sold.
 While working for an Internet start-up in Tampa, he created tracking and reporting software for internet advertisers and Google Ads advertisers. This tracking software led to establishing – Internet Media Buyers in 2002.
 Internet Media Buyers is a digital ad firm that offers tracking software solutions for local and medium-sized businesses. Internet Media Buyers tracking and reporting software is especially useful when combined with Google AdWords and Google Analytics. Internet Media Buyers grew along with the success of the Google search engine.
 Internet Media Buyers became known as the tracking solution to maximize the results of Google Advertising with a client base of hundreds of monthly Google AdWords accounts.
 Recently sold Internet Media Buyers to focus more on non-profits. Sunray Marketing offers internet based marketing solutions to non-profits.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/79941388-b329-11eb-9f0f-5787b110f39a/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>How to Build and Convert Traffic</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>While attending college in Gainesville, Florida Hank Robinson created and internet marketing software solution. This software provided Environmental Consulting firms with a bidding platform for government proposals. The business grew to cover the entire Southeastern United States and later sold.
 While working for an Internet start-up in Tampa, he created tracking and reporting software for internet advertisers and Google Ads advertisers. This tracking software led to establishing – Internet Media Buyers in 2002.
 Internet Media Buyers is a digital ad firm that offers tracking software solutions for local and medium-sized businesses. Internet Media Buyers tracking and reporting software is especially useful when combined with Google AdWords and Google Analytics. Internet Media Buyers grew along with the success of the Google search engine.
 Internet Media Buyers became known as the tracking solution to maximize the results of Google Advertising with a client base of hundreds of monthly Google AdWords accounts.
 Recently sold Internet Media Buyers to focus more on non-profits. Sunray Marketing offers internet based marketing solutions to non-profits.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>While attending college in Gainesville, Florida <strong>Hank Robinson</strong> created and internet marketing software solution. This software provided Environmental Consulting firms with a bidding platform for government proposals. The business grew to cover the entire Southeastern United States and later sold.</p> <p>While working for an Internet start-up in Tampa, he created tracking and reporting software for internet advertisers and Google Ads advertisers. This tracking software led to establishing – Internet Media Buyers in 2002.</p> <p>Internet Media Buyers is a digital ad firm that offers tracking software solutions for local and medium-sized businesses. Internet Media Buyers tracking and reporting software is especially useful when combined with Google AdWords and Google Analytics. Internet Media Buyers grew along with the success of the Google search engine.</p> <p>Internet Media Buyers became known as the tracking solution to maximize the results of Google Advertising with a client base of hundreds of monthly Google AdWords accounts.</p> <p>Recently sold Internet Media Buyers to focus more on non-profits. Sunray Marketing offers internet based marketing solutions to non-profits.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3172</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <title>Developing Relationships For Winning Partnerships with Barbara Jaynes</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/developing-relationships-for-winning-partnerships-with-barbara-jaynes</link>
      <description>Developing Relationships For Winning Partnerships with Barbara Jaynes
 Barbara Jaynesis the founder of Positively-Funded. A Business Development firm focused on making nonprofits THRIVE. Barbara came to the nonprofit sector after having spent over fifteen years in large scale commercial real estate development. Bringing with her savvy negotiation skills and durable relationship development between the private and public sectors. Positively-Funded assists nonprofits with creating authentic community allies. Engaging for profit partners in nonprofit missions to increase their revenue, decrease employee turnover and create sustainable resilient communities. Barbara focuses on winning relationships for the long-term.
 More about Jayne http://www.positively-funded.com 
 The Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, folks. It’s Hugh Ballou in central western Virginia, where today the flowers are coming out, the sun is shining, it’s absolutely a gorgeous day. These are the old mountains in the Appalachians. You got all the young, pointy mountains out there in Denver, Russell.
 Russell Dennis: We haven’t filed them down yet. We have a lot of them, too.
 Hugh: You have a lot of them. We have a good guest that you actually talked to and got her on board today. It’s an important topic people don’t talk about globally, or even around the corner in their own communities. There is a lot more we can do. Barbara Jaynes, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Barbara Jaynes: Hello, Hugh. Hello, Russ. Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.
 Hugh: Tell our listeners a little bit about Barbara, your history, and why you’re doing what you’re doing now.
 Barbara: I’d love to, Hugh. Thank you. In 2006, my family and I moved to Superior, Colorado right outside Boulder. Before that, I lived in Cleveland and did inner city redevelopment. I worked in some of the toughest neighborhoods in the country and did urban renewal. I did some hospitals, large scale, ground up shopping centers and grocery stores. I loved what I did. It was my vocation. When I came to Denver, it wasn’t as old, and people weren’t as interested in my vocation and developing strong communities.  So I decided to go to the nonprofit sector and take my vocation and business skills there.
 I went to one of the most well-known nonprofits in Denver. I would bring them these incredible partners. They didn’t know how to develop the relationships. They just wanted the check. You can’t do that. Target doesn’t want you to burn through a gallon of milk one time; they want you to do it 1,000 times. Nonprofits need to start thinking like businesses. I realized that. They needed to learn how to develop these relationships and know they are a value add. That’s how Positively Funded was founded.
 Hugh: Positively Funded. That’s your business and website?
 Barbara: It is. Positively-Funded.com.
 Hugh: What’s that about?
 Barbara: I wanted nonprofits to think of a positive way to fund themselves. What I do is beneficial to both parties. It’s not about give me, give me, give me. It’s about going out and developing relationships that work. In the business sector you find your community allies and ask, “What is it that you need? Are you having a hard time engaging millennials? Are you having a hard time keeping employees? Do you need a better market profile? Do you need sales increased?” You work with the nonprofit to benefit yourself to help your business grow and benefit the nonprofit at the same time.
 Hugh: Russell, did you hear that? There is a synergy between for-profit and for-purpose businesses. What did you hear in that, Russ?
 Russell: It’s all about collaboration. We had a great discussion on that. I have been wanting to get Barbara on the show for a while. We just started having discussions. There are people I am meeting all over the place right here in town that Barbara and I will be talking with soon. It never ceases to amaze me how when you are vibrating at a certain frequency, people start to turn up. I had a good friend who did therapy for veterans who is recently retired. Just ran into her this morning. We were having coffee. She said, “What can I do?” That is somebody Barbara needs to meet and other people around here need to meet. We can get a lot more done together. The traditional models of each thing don’t seem to fit. I am starting to see people who are creating hybrid businesses, socially responsible businesses. They are taking their for-purpose enterprises in new directions and looking at mission-based revenue. It’s all exciting. It starts with partnerships and being able to talk to each other.
 Barbara and I met for lunch one day. She is so easy to talk to. It could be that we are vibrating on the same frequency. It could be a mild form of group psychosis. Either way, the results will be the same if we collaborate. Barb’s masterful at putting these partnerships together. She is from my hometown. It’s not surprising.
 Hugh: It’s the thin air there that helps inspire you, I’m sure. Russ, we preach the song of working together, of collaborating. The town where I live, Lynchburg, the University of Lynchburg, is launching a center for nonprofit leadership around the theme of collaboration. We have lots of nonprofits that distribute food to hungry people, and some who provide meals in addition to that. There is no overarching umbrella of how they can work together. If somebody is hungry on a Friday night, none of them are available for food. If someone is bound at home and can’t use transportation, there is no way they can get to this food bank. We are putting together an umbrella organization for people to know that other ones exist, and where can we have a meaningful conversation?
 Barbara, let’s start from the beginning. We have these different entities. From where I sit, I’ve been in history longer than you guys, today it’s more important for the work of our nonprofits, whatever we call ourselves, our work is more important today because the world is so splintered and fragmented and toxic. We do the substantive work of doing good. But really, it works better if we work together. Where is the starting point? Suppose the scenario I have just outlined. There are a bunch of medical facilities that are free clinics. How do you start this conversation? How do you paint this paradigm of benefit? How do you take people who are interested and make them allies?
 Barbara: Hugh, the scenario that you put out is very common. One nonprofit does this, and another one does that. The nonprofits need to come together and collaborate as well. They need to look at where are the gaps that we need to fill in. We both do amazing things. No one nonprofit can be everything to the world. You might take a scenario and take those gaps and go out and find a community partner. Say, “We have this need. Here is what it is. We are not serving-” Take your example on a Friday night. While we both have food, we’re not available to serve them. We don’t have the infrastructure. We don’t have the bodies to do it ourselves. How could we work with you to help solve this problem? Ask for the mentorship from those companies.
 When you work with a company, it’s so important that you are working from bottom to top, top to bottom, hitting everyone. So go to their development people, their operations people, their finance people in the C-suite and say that you need mentorship in these areas. We have this problem. Help us solve it. Go to their new employees. Say, we could use some volunteers. The company you work for is amazing because they are helping to support the community and feed those who are hungry. We need your support as well. Talk about employee retention and the mental health benefits from volunteering. And engaging millennials. Millennials don’t just want what’s in the envelope at the end of the week. They want a purpose and a reason to be there. You the nonprofit can help give them that purpose.  
 Hugh: Connecting those dots is essential. There is this fear factor where we have our group of volunteers, and we don’t want people to take them. We have our group of donors. Volunteers commonly work with several organizations, and donors donate to a bunch of organizations. Speak to this fear of having these conversations. How do we get people to the table to even explore the potential?
 Barbara: That is so true. When it comes down to donors and volunteers and corporate champions, suddenly everyone turns into 12-year-old mean girls. You have to stop that mindset. You cannot come from the mindset of scarcity. You have to come from the mindset of, I am a value added. Don’t you want volunteers and donors who are passionate about what you’re doing? If they’re not passionate about you, they’re not really your volunteers or donors. They might just be there for the day. Don’t you want someone for the long haul to create an authentic long-term relationship with them? Shouldn’t you find the right people for your mission that have the passion for it who are truly going to become your partners?
 Hugh: Russ is thinking on that one. He is bubbling up.
 Russell: You have to get the right people on the bus. That involves speaking to them in a way that resonates with them. It’s finding that spot where you connect, and they get that. One of the things we were thinking about is running an organization, when do you come to the realization that you need allies in the community?
 Barbara: I’ll tell you my life philosophy, which is how I raised my girls. The strongest trees have the most branches. I gave my girls a lot of branches. We don’t have family here in Colorado. We moved to the other coast away from everyone. I gave them branches at church. We have branches in the neighborhood. They have branches at school. They had branches at sports. They had a lot of strength because they had a lot of different people in their lives to help nurture them because it does take your village.
 You should look at your nonprofit the same way. Do you have enough branches? Are you a strong four-legged stool? Do you have grants? Do you have community allies? Do you have individual donors? Do you have a fundraising program? You can’t just rely on one leg to be a strong stool. You need a little bit of everything. If you think about how you diversify your personal financial portfolio, we’re all told to do that, do that with your nonprofit funding. Is your portfolio diversified? Do you have four strong legs to hold you up? Or are you one grant away from closing your door? If you don’t have those four strong legs, go out and make partners. Go out and find community allies. Bring the for-profit sector in to you and share your passion and your story.
 Russell: What does that process look like? People realize they need partners, but how do I start figuring out which ones I need and how to go about getting them?
 Barbara: That’s a great question. For a lot of people, that is a conversation stopper. They’re like, I know I need partners, but I don’t know what to do. Then someone comes to your door and needs help, and it ends right there. You have to take some time out to focus on yourself and care for yourself and nurture your own nonprofit before you go the way of blockbustering by the dinosaurs. Look at your board and tell them, “We have this winning partnership idea that we want to collaborate with the for-profit sector for. Can I look at your LinkedIn contacts and see there might be someone there who you could introduce me to?” I am making it perfectly clear that I am not calling that person to ask for a check. I am looking for a true, authentic business partnership where I can increase their brand and community power, and they can help support us.” That is one starter right there.
 Russell: That is going right through the table and doing something for them first. Where can we add value? That is what a partnership is all about. It’s not one-sided. It’s about people bringing value. A lot of nonprofits have trouble looking at things that way when they are speaking with donors or potential donors. It’s not a hat in hand kind of thing. We can together provide a value that is going to make a change in our community. If we can do that, then we will be able to make some impact. In terms of allies or partners, what qualities do we look for in a good ally, and what do we do to make ourselves good allies for people we want to partner with?
 Barbara: One of the things I always coach nonprofits on is look at the mission statement. Look at the values of the company. What they’re doing right now, before you approach them. We really seem to have similar thought processes here and similar value traits. That would be someone I can approach. Look at their press releases. What are they growing? What are they talking about? When you do reach out to them, you can say, I read that press release and heard this, and this. That really aligns with what we’re doing, too. Maybe we can help each other get where we want to be.
 Russell: You can do that. The difference isn’t necessarily- if you have two or three organizations, you multiply your resources exponentially instead of sequentially.
 Barbara: Absolutely. That’s important. When you go out and start this, my philosophy where I found, whether I was doing real estate development or nonprofit business development, is the 30/10/3 rule. I am going to call 30 people. 10 of them want to talk to me. 3 want to say yes, I like that, let’s talk some more.
 Hugh: That’s a great ratio. 30/10/3. Talk to 30. 10-
 Barbara: Call 30. 10 will want to talk to you. I hear about this. 3 of them want to bite into it and say, “This is a good idea. I can see where this is helpful to me and helpful to you. Let’s talk.”
 Hugh: That’s an important routine.
 Russell: Talk to ten for every one you want to secure. That works for any customer base: donors, volunteers, potential board members. I love the idea of making sure that you check that alignment. People like to talk with people who have done some homework and know a little bit about their organization or them as a person. You start asking questions about them. LinkedIn is a good platform. Everybody’s favorite subject is them. They’re their own favorite subject. It’s finding a way to lift them up, and not blowing smoke. People can tell if you’re just blowing smoke. If there is an authentic connection, leveraging that and talking about that.
 Hugh: This is what we call ROR, Return on Relationship. That 30/10/3 rule is ongoing. I hear people say, “I talked to an organization about it, and it didn’t work.” I talked to an organization. I say, “I tried working out one day last year, and it didn’t work either.” Underneath what I’m hearing you say, there is a continuity. You have to stick with it. There is persistence. Speak to that. We think we’re bothering people. No, we’re not. We’re giving them an opportunity. Help reverse that paradigm, would you?
 Barbara: You need to have tenacity, just like a business would. I want this. I know I’m making a difference. I know my product is helping the community. You need to have the tenacity, the passion to go out with that and know you’re not bothering people. You don’t know what problems that business has. You have something to offer to help them with those problems. Do people know your brand? Do you need brand recognition? Do you need a new platform? Are you struggling in the hiring process? You can put a letter from us in your New Hire packet so when people interview with you, you’re right there to talk about it. In your follow-up emails, we are right there to say how amazing you are in a video. We’re your partnership in everything from sales to hiring. We don’t know who we know who might want your products in their stores. Truly embed yourself in that culture. Make it a give-give.
 Hugh: Russell, do you have your head around what Barbara Jaynes does? Can you explain it for people who are listening to her for the first time?
 Russell: What she does is bring people together from multiple sectors to solve social problems and put good systems in place and help people have conversations. The conversation that we rarely have, when you’re talking with people in nonprofits, is about value, the dreaded V word. That’s what we’re all bringing to the table. It’s helping people understand that they bring value, and to quantify that in terms that makes sense to other people. She helps in bringing business systems. Thinking of your organization as a business, as a producer of value, and approaching it from that place so that you’re out there offering everybody you come in contact with something of value, whether they are donors, providing pro bono work, a socially responsible business looking to support a cause, or a nonprofit looking to get support. It boils down to a couple of things: money and people. If you are short on either, at some point, you’re going to fold.
 Hugh: Barbara, how did he do?
 Barbara: He did great. He is true. I am called the connector. That’s important because I connect for winning relationships. He is right about the value add. I like to play the game, “Bigger and Better” in business. Did you ever play the game as a kid where you start off with a paper clip and go door to door? I have a paper clip – what will you trade me that is bigger and better? Then you go to the next door with what they give you and trade for something else.
 I do the same thing, with my nonprofits and business partnerships. I had a nonprofit I was meeting with and said, “A church came and built our fence a couple weeks ago.” “How did you thank them? How did you follow up?” We are going to send them a letter. “No, no, no. They have parishioners. You go and ask their pastor, ‘We want to thank your congregation in person. Could we have five minutes to stand up after your announcements and personally thank them and let them know what building this fence meant to us and talk about your charity?’” You have a captive audience of 300 or more people. Don’t walk away from that. That’s not a thank-you letter. Go get them.
 Hugh: Whoa. Did you hear that? Maybe we should do that.
 Russell: We have to work on this. When we do get you here to town, we will take you to McDonalds. Then we will swap that from Morton’s or something like that. That is too far. The idea is now firmly planted. It’s like toothpaste. It’s not going back in once it comes out.
 Hugh: You know who your friends are, don’t you? Russell, I heard her talk about installing or teaching business principles to nonprofits. I’m not sure that all businesses have those skills either. They think they do. They have some cash flow that masks their ignorance. That’s what Russ and I spend our life doing: helping nonprofit organizations think in terms of cash flow and budgeting and marketing and all the things businesses need. I find sometimes that even businesses that donate or buy sponsorships for nonprofits don’t know how to get the benefit of that sponsorship. They donate, but they don’t know how to say, “What’s this money going to create? What difference will it make?” They don’t know how to ask that. When they make a business decision to use marketing money to sponsor an event, they don’t know how to get a return on that investment. Is that part of what you help both sides explore?
 Barbara: It absolutely is, Hugh. It’s so important because I teach this to both sides. You need to say, for every $10 we bring in, we provide a box of groceries to a family that will feed them for a week. What nonprofits do with money is magical. For every $20 we can take care of 10 new dogs in our shelter. When you quantify it like that, it lets the business know, Oh, I am donating $5,000. It translates to 500 dogs. This is what I can do.
 On the nonprofit side, you should always be talking numbers. Numbers ring true with millennials and with businesses. When you say to someone, “This is what $50 can do,” I didn’t know you could do that with $50. I would have donated $500; I didn’t realize I would have upped my ante. Let them know from the beginning, if you’re doing an event, this is how much we want to raise. This is what it breaks down into. For every $20 increment, this is what it will change.
 Same on the business side. Let people know, Hey, this is what we did last year for nonprofits. Here is the impact for each one of them.
 Hugh: There is a lot in the ask. I served a church in Atlanta of 12,000. The preacher raised $18 million for the next phase of the building program, to double the size of the facility. He did that in 14 lunches. I was sitting in his office one day, and he had the cash before they dug any dirt. He is reading the newspaper where one of the people he had talked to had given $4 million for a building at one of the local universities. He called that guy up and said, “I’m sorry I asked you for such a small amount.”
 Russell: When you hit that sweet spot, we underestimate ourselves. It’s important to set those expectations. What is it that you want? I think the way to do that would be approaching a foundation or corporation is to look at it that you want to try to get, but find out what they want. Barbara is good at helping them find that because they don’t always know what they want to get. She sits with them and works with them and asks them what they want to try to do. You can’t get goodwill out of a Madison Avenue magazine spread. It comes with being connected with people, making a difference. If everyone is clear on the common goals, you can set some measures. With donors, it’s important to keep in touch with them. After they have written a check, let them know what the money is doing. The money should be quantified not just numerically, but in terms of story, in terms of people who are getting your services. How far those dollars are going. Thanking them. Highlighting some of them. This is what your support is making possible. They hear from you much more frequently than when you need money. if the only time they hear from you is when it’s time to write a check, they will run for the hills.
 Barbara: You are so right. That is not the thing to do. It shouldn’t be, I’ve gotten my check. Life is beautiful. Make that relationship true. Ask them, Can we do a quarterly updated video for your staff? Every quarter, let’s update them and let them know the impact and what is going on. You want to triple their Roladex, and they want to keep your employees. You want to embed yourself into the culture to support them and support your nonprofit. You do a video that goes out in an email link to every employee, thank them, let them know what you have done with their money. It’s amazing we have these wonderful programs, and we are able to serve so many more people. Last month, we had 50 people come in with this problem. We have to figure out how to solve this. Will you roll up your sleeves and help me solve it? You engage them beyond money. Sweat equity, mentorship, be there for me.
 I want to hit on something Russ said before about knowing who your audience is. I firmly believe you don’t just go out and throw stuff against the wall to see what sticks. So many people will say, “You’re a big company. Write me a check.” You have to have a reason. Start with a why. I really researched you. I know what you do. We have the same vibe. We’re good for each other. Let’s talk about this.
 Russell: A lot of that goes into the psychology of their branding. You have Nike that says, Just do it. If your message resonates with something along those lines, you get an idea of you look at who is in their commercials. Who are the people they are trying to reach, attract? How many of those people are in your tribe? They want that exposure, that goodwill. It’s important to look at that to see how we align with them. Just as importantly, to use language that resonates with them to start a conversation.
 I think the conversation starts with trying to find the right person. That may not always be somebody with a sponsorship label. It may be somebody in marketing, or have another title. They have different pockets of money. Only a certain number of dollars are earmarked for sponsorship. They could support you elsewhere. It’s having that conversation and asking them questions with what you have in mind, and bouncing something off of them. It’s trying to dig up information that’s not in their literature to get a feel for the person and start building that relationship. After you have an idea of where they’re going in that particular point in time, then you tell them about your project. After you have gathered enough information, you ask if it’s okay to send a proposal. But these folks are busy. You want to get a 15-mintue interview. Nothing will annoy them more than asking questions that are on their website that they spent money to make. Doing that homework is important. That is what Barbara is masterful at helping you do.
 Barbara: They have to know that you know who they are. They have to know why. Why have you called me? You need to have a good answer.
 I went to a meeting with one of my clients. The owner of the company across the table said, “Why did you call on us?” I could tell them exactly why. You belong to this association, and this technology association aligns with what this charity does. He’s like, Thank you. You know who we are. We walked out with a check. It made the difference in the world. To take that time, to know who you’re talking to, and why you’re talking to them.
 Russell: You don’t always expect to walk out with a check on the first visit, but if that’s the end result, be open to receiving that.
 Barbara: My client was very happy. It really opened their eyes to the way that I do my things. I relaly want my clients to learn from my playbook and to be able to run with it and do it on their own. I don’t want to be there permanently from them. As your community needs change, you will be able to go out and meet those needs.
 Russell:We get back to this discussion on value. A lot of businesses quantify that by their products and services. How can a nonprofit do that? A lot of people will sit there and actually have a limited view of what’s valuable to other people? What are some things they can do to demonstrate value?
 Barbara: Know your data. Know who you’re helping and how many people you’re serving. When you are meeting with that person, you have your numbers and alignment. When you ask that company what they need, do you need us to write a thank you letter that you can send to your vendors to let them know what a community ally you are and support you are? Do you need us to do a video to your vendors to let them know what you’re doing? It triples the Rolodex for the nonprofit and puts new eyes on them as well as help the business. Do you need us to do a video for your customers so when they purchase something and get the receipt, I am there to thank them personally and let them know how important you are in the community? They are not getting a pair of shoes; they are getting someone who makes a difference in the world. That’s who they’re buying from. Tell us what you need.
 Russell: You mentioned vendors, and I don’t know that people think that. Part of the value of your board of directors is the relationships they have. I don’t know if people think in terms of we don’t have a relationship with XYZ, but we have people on our board who have relationships with W company who is a vendor of XYZ. Do you frequently find that is a good way to approach an organization?
 Barbara: It is. Using vendors is important. They want that winning relationship with their internal customers. It creates even greater synergy. It gives the company that you want to ally with a better story that they can tell to their vendors. We are not buying copy paper from just anybody; we are buying copy paper from the company that does this. You have their community story, and you have their back. Make sure you are wearing each other’s jerseys.
 Russell: What do you think of that, Hugh? Are you ready to go out and buy a Cleveland Browns jersey and a Denver Broncos jersey just in case it all goes sideways for the Redskins?
 Hugh: I gather those are football teams. I am not much of a football fan. I am a NASCAR guy. I am in the South.
 This is intriguing. Let’s talk about your organization, Positively-Funded. How did you come to that name?
 Barbara: I wanted to change the way that nonprofits thought about funding. Not to think that you have to go out with your tail tucked between your legs and grovel and I gotta go out and beg because the lights are getting turned off. No. You have a value add. You have something positive to give to the business world beyond the community that you provide services for. Get out there and be positive with it. I have something to offer. I want to be your partner. I want to make your business thrive so that my community thrives also.  
 Hugh: It’s a win-win proposition. I heard Russ say earlier in the conversation about finding out what other people want. It’s something that he introduces to a conversation on finding board members or donors. It would occur to me the same thing would happen here. Find out what the business is interested in. You had done your homework, so you walked out with a check. You had studied what that company was about. I can’t tell you how many times that doesn’t happen with companies I know. They misspell the person’s name in a pitch. That is not a good start. How did you get the name for this company? How did you think of that name?
 Barbara: It’s what I just came up with. I wanted to make a difference in the way and change the mindset of how nonprofits felt they needed to be funded. You don’t need to beg. This is a positive thing. You are offering something positive to those financially investing in you, sweat equity investing in you, pro bono. You have something great to offer.
 Hugh: Let’s do a summary here. What are the top three to five mistakes that nonprofits make when they approach a company for some sort of connection, partnership, funding? What is the remedy to those mistakes?
 Barbara: I think the very first thing is do your homework. Study who you’re going after, and know why you’re going after them. Don’t go in cold.
 Hugh: The mistake is they don’t know what the company does, or who the person is. They have not honored that person at all.
 Barbara: When you talked about when you’re sending out a letter and misspelling the name, I advise to never blindly send out a letter. Do not do that. I research my companies. Call them first. Have a conversation. Then send a follow-up email. Thank them for their time. If you leave a voicemail, send an email. I left you a message this morning, and I want you to know why I left that message.
 Hugh: When you call a company, who do you ask for?
 Barbara: It depends on what the nonprofit really needs. You typically look at who is doing their community investments? Most companies have a community investment team. They have an employee engagement team. You ask for those things. Those types of departments.
 Hugh: The first mistake is know your enemy. You need to know your prospect. The problem is they don’t know who they are, know about them, know the personality. The remedy is study who they are and get educated before you even make the first call.
 Barbara: Absolutely. That is your very first thing. Know your audience.
 Hugh: Give us a few more. What is a mistake nonprofits make?
 Barbara: The other thing is going in for the kill, and I just want the check. No. Develop the relationship. You don’t just want that check. You need more than that check. You need partners. You need support. You need a strong four-legged stool. Ask for it. I need mentorship. Your CFO, I need help with my books. I need to understand how to financially run better. Give me mentorship. I need from your operations department. We are going to replace our roof in three years. I don’t know the first thing about getting a roofing contractor. I need to start saving for that now. I need to know what to look for. What is my best roof to have in the long term? Ask for the help. Ask for the right people. Go bottom to top. Go for their C-suite. Go for their board. Know those people. Research them. Know that you need more than just a check. You need sweat equity and volunteering, too.
 Hugh: Not knowing your prospects. Get to know them. Go in there thinking it’s one and done. Not working on long-term relationship. What’s another?
 Barbara: Not doing your follow-up and diligence. Not keeping that relationship fire stoked. Not staying in touch and saying, What can we offer you? I see that one of your goals is that you want to hire 10 new people. How can I help you with that? Do you want a letter from us saying how amazing you are that goes into your interview packets? Do you want a video for a thank you? How can we help? Do you want an opportunity, so on that person’s first day of work, I know a person who does this, every employee’s first day of work, they don’t show up at the company. This is our charity. You will go there and stock the shelves of this food back and spend the day with them. Tomorrow, you show up here.
 Hugh: That is great. That’s three really good ones. Do you want to float another one? Or is that good?
 Barbara: I really think it’s important that you have your number ducks in a row. Know your numbers. Know your numbers internally. Know how they work. Know your company’s numbers. I want to know what your turnover rate has been since we have started this partnership. I want to know your brand recognition. I want to know about your sales. I want to know about your customer satisfaction. I want to know that we have impacted you in return.
 Hugh: This is also reciprocal. When you are asking for money, you want to ask for a specific amount. There are some people who say, “I want $20-30,000.” That’s not specific. There is a $10,000 spread; it doesn’t sound like you’re careful with my money. It’s their money until they give it to you.
 Russell: Specificity is important. The universe will hear $20,000 if you say $20-30. $20,000 will show up. That’s what you put out there. That’s what you want. It helps to be specific. It sounds like all of these things, as far as looking for ways to be of service, can help build the long-term relationship with a business or between a business and nonprofit. What are some other things? What are the most important things, say for the business to do, or for the nonprofit to do? Maybe two or three things that are important for each of them to do to make sure that you can build and maintain a long-term relationship.
 Barbara: I think the very first thing in your follow-up plan is have a regular communication strategy. We’re going to talk. Whatever department is your go-to person, have a standing monthly conversation. Update each other. This is how things are going on our side, and here is your impact. Great. This is how things are going on our side, and here is your impact. Keep that communication going.
 Offer to spend time with their employees. Do a lunch and learn quarterly. Talk about how what seniors need. Here are the latest stats in America for seniors. Here is their food scarcity, transportation problems. Let us come in and talk about our wisdom in our sector, and how you can overcome these things, and how we work together.
 Hugh: Brilliant.
 Barbara: Invite us to come to your association. Whatever your trade association is, bring us along. Let us be your dog and pony show. We’re there for you.
 Hugh: That’s also part of top of mind marketing. They don’t forget you because you’re there, and you are always looking to add value to the other. There are business leaders who see nonprofit as their duty. I wrote my check, and I’m done. Rather than looking for the win-win, which takes time. I like your set of questions. Do you work just in Colorado? She has a superior attitude, Russell. I don’t know why. Just in Superior. Do you work all over?
 Barbara: I go beyond Superior, Colorado. Boulder County is my home, that’s for sure. I have worked with international nonprofits. I have worked with national nonprofits. I have worked with statewide nonprofits. I work with little babies with a staff of four. Everyone starts somewhere. Everyone can create winning partnerships, no matter what your size is.
 Hugh: Is there a place on your website where people can ping you and have a conversation with you to explore possibilities?
 Barbara: Absolutely. My phone number is on there. My email. There is a Contact form you can fill out. Whatever medium is your comfort zone, be it phone or email.
 Hugh: This is good stuff. I’m a conductor by trade. Musical conductor. Not railroad conductor. The composer/conductor Ralph Long Williams from Britain is known to have said, “Music did not reveal all of its secrets to just one person.” We can say that about funding, partnerships, leadership. It’s good. We have gotten some wisdom from a lot of people over the four years. Thank you for your time today.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 The messages you have shared today are close to our heart. We wish people in every community would have some wisdom to share.
 Barbara, I am going to throw it to you for a closing tip or challenge.
 Barbara: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. This is wonderful to be able to share the good news of you have something to offer. Go out and be positive in your funding. Don’t tuck your tail between your legs. I’d like to challenge nonprofits to look at your stool. How many legs do you have? How strong are they? Go find your community allies. Look beyond your traditional scope. What can I do? What do I have to offer? How can I collaborate? How can I be a good community collaborator, not only with the for-profit sector, but with other nonprofits? There is strength in numbers. Go out and be positively funded.
 Russell: Thanks always, Barbara. I am looking forward to having lunch with you later this week. That is the beauty of the bonus I get, Hugh. Barbara is in my backyard, and we are going to talk to people here and do what we can to come together and make some impact.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 21 Apr 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/79b11352-b329-11eb-9f0f-a3522791226e/image/TheNPExchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Creating winning relationships between businesses and nonprofits</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Developing Relationships For Winning Partnerships with Barbara Jaynes
 Barbara Jaynesis the founder of Positively-Funded. A Business Development firm focused on making nonprofits THRIVE. Barbara came to the nonprofit sector after having spent over fifteen years in large scale commercial real estate development. Bringing with her savvy negotiation skills and durable relationship development between the private and public sectors. Positively-Funded assists nonprofits with creating authentic community allies. Engaging for profit partners in nonprofit missions to increase their revenue, decrease employee turnover and create sustainable resilient communities. Barbara focuses on winning relationships for the long-term.
 More about Jayne http://www.positively-funded.com 
 The Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, folks. It’s Hugh Ballou in central western Virginia, where today the flowers are coming out, the sun is shining, it’s absolutely a gorgeous day. These are the old mountains in the Appalachians. You got all the young, pointy mountains out there in Denver, Russell.
 Russell Dennis: We haven’t filed them down yet. We have a lot of them, too.
 Hugh: You have a lot of them. We have a good guest that you actually talked to and got her on board today. It’s an important topic people don’t talk about globally, or even around the corner in their own communities. There is a lot more we can do. Barbara Jaynes, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Barbara Jaynes: Hello, Hugh. Hello, Russ. Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.
 Hugh: Tell our listeners a little bit about Barbara, your history, and why you’re doing what you’re doing now.
 Barbara: I’d love to, Hugh. Thank you. In 2006, my family and I moved to Superior, Colorado right outside Boulder. Before that, I lived in Cleveland and did inner city redevelopment. I worked in some of the toughest neighborhoods in the country and did urban renewal. I did some hospitals, large scale, ground up shopping centers and grocery stores. I loved what I did. It was my vocation. When I came to Denver, it wasn’t as old, and people weren’t as interested in my vocation and developing strong communities.  So I decided to go to the nonprofit sector and take my vocation and business skills there.
 I went to one of the most well-known nonprofits in Denver. I would bring them these incredible partners. They didn’t know how to develop the relationships. They just wanted the check. You can’t do that. Target doesn’t want you to burn through a gallon of milk one time; they want you to do it 1,000 times. Nonprofits need to start thinking like businesses. I realized that. They needed to learn how to develop these relationships and know they are a value add. That’s how Positively Funded was founded.
 Hugh: Positively Funded. That’s your business and website?
 Barbara: It is. Positively-Funded.com.
 Hugh: What’s that about?
 Barbara: I wanted nonprofits to think of a positive way to fund themselves. What I do is beneficial to both parties. It’s not about give me, give me, give me. It’s about going out and developing relationships that work. In the business sector you find your community allies and ask, “What is it that you need? Are you having a hard time engaging millennials? Are you having a hard time keeping employees? Do you need a better market profile? Do you need sales increased?” You work with the nonprofit to benefit yourself to help your business grow and benefit the nonprofit at the same time.
 Hugh: Russell, did you hear that? There is a synergy between for-profit and for-purpose businesses. What did you hear in that, Russ?
 Russell: It’s all about collaboration. We had a great discussion on that. I have been wanting to get Barbara on the show for a while. We just started having discussions. There are people I am meeting all over the place right here in town that Barbara and I will be talking with soon. It never ceases to amaze me how when you are vibrating at a certain frequency, people start to turn up. I had a good friend who did therapy for veterans who is recently retired. Just ran into her this morning. We were having coffee. She said, “What can I do?” That is somebody Barbara needs to meet and other people around here need to meet. We can get a lot more done together. The traditional models of each thing don’t seem to fit. I am starting to see people who are creating hybrid businesses, socially responsible businesses. They are taking their for-purpose enterprises in new directions and looking at mission-based revenue. It’s all exciting. It starts with partnerships and being able to talk to each other.
 Barbara and I met for lunch one day. She is so easy to talk to. It could be that we are vibrating on the same frequency. It could be a mild form of group psychosis. Either way, the results will be the same if we collaborate. Barb’s masterful at putting these partnerships together. She is from my hometown. It’s not surprising.
 Hugh: It’s the thin air there that helps inspire you, I’m sure. Russ, we preach the song of working together, of collaborating. The town where I live, Lynchburg, the University of Lynchburg, is launching a center for nonprofit leadership around the theme of collaboration. We have lots of nonprofits that distribute food to hungry people, and some who provide meals in addition to that. There is no overarching umbrella of how they can work together. If somebody is hungry on a Friday night, none of them are available for food. If someone is bound at home and can’t use transportation, there is no way they can get to this food bank. We are putting together an umbrella organization for people to know that other ones exist, and where can we have a meaningful conversation?
 Barbara, let’s start from the beginning. We have these different entities. From where I sit, I’ve been in history longer than you guys, today it’s more important for the work of our nonprofits, whatever we call ourselves, our work is more important today because the world is so splintered and fragmented and toxic. We do the substantive work of doing good. But really, it works better if we work together. Where is the starting point? Suppose the scenario I have just outlined. There are a bunch of medical facilities that are free clinics. How do you start this conversation? How do you paint this paradigm of benefit? How do you take people who are interested and make them allies?
 Barbara: Hugh, the scenario that you put out is very common. One nonprofit does this, and another one does that. The nonprofits need to come together and collaborate as well. They need to look at where are the gaps that we need to fill in. We both do amazing things. No one nonprofit can be everything to the world. You might take a scenario and take those gaps and go out and find a community partner. Say, “We have this need. Here is what it is. We are not serving-” Take your example on a Friday night. While we both have food, we’re not available to serve them. We don’t have the infrastructure. We don’t have the bodies to do it ourselves. How could we work with you to help solve this problem? Ask for the mentorship from those companies.
 When you work with a company, it’s so important that you are working from bottom to top, top to bottom, hitting everyone. So go to their development people, their operations people, their finance people in the C-suite and say that you need mentorship in these areas. We have this problem. Help us solve it. Go to their new employees. Say, we could use some volunteers. The company you work for is amazing because they are helping to support the community and feed those who are hungry. We need your support as well. Talk about employee retention and the mental health benefits from volunteering. And engaging millennials. Millennials don’t just want what’s in the envelope at the end of the week. They want a purpose and a reason to be there. You the nonprofit can help give them that purpose.  
 Hugh: Connecting those dots is essential. There is this fear factor where we have our group of volunteers, and we don’t want people to take them. We have our group of donors. Volunteers commonly work with several organizations, and donors donate to a bunch of organizations. Speak to this fear of having these conversations. How do we get people to the table to even explore the potential?
 Barbara: That is so true. When it comes down to donors and volunteers and corporate champions, suddenly everyone turns into 12-year-old mean girls. You have to stop that mindset. You cannot come from the mindset of scarcity. You have to come from the mindset of, I am a value added. Don’t you want volunteers and donors who are passionate about what you’re doing? If they’re not passionate about you, they’re not really your volunteers or donors. They might just be there for the day. Don’t you want someone for the long haul to create an authentic long-term relationship with them? Shouldn’t you find the right people for your mission that have the passion for it who are truly going to become your partners?
 Hugh: Russ is thinking on that one. He is bubbling up.
 Russell: You have to get the right people on the bus. That involves speaking to them in a way that resonates with them. It’s finding that spot where you connect, and they get that. One of the things we were thinking about is running an organization, when do you come to the realization that you need allies in the community?
 Barbara: I’ll tell you my life philosophy, which is how I raised my girls. The strongest trees have the most branches. I gave my girls a lot of branches. We don’t have family here in Colorado. We moved to the other coast away from everyone. I gave them branches at church. We have branches in the neighborhood. They have branches at school. They had branches at sports. They had a lot of strength because they had a lot of different people in their lives to help nurture them because it does take your village.
 You should look at your nonprofit the same way. Do you have enough branches? Are you a strong four-legged stool? Do you have grants? Do you have community allies? Do you have individual donors? Do you have a fundraising program? You can’t just rely on one leg to be a strong stool. You need a little bit of everything. If you think about how you diversify your personal financial portfolio, we’re all told to do that, do that with your nonprofit funding. Is your portfolio diversified? Do you have four strong legs to hold you up? Or are you one grant away from closing your door? If you don’t have those four strong legs, go out and make partners. Go out and find community allies. Bring the for-profit sector in to you and share your passion and your story.
 Russell: What does that process look like? People realize they need partners, but how do I start figuring out which ones I need and how to go about getting them?
 Barbara: That’s a great question. For a lot of people, that is a conversation stopper. They’re like, I know I need partners, but I don’t know what to do. Then someone comes to your door and needs help, and it ends right there. You have to take some time out to focus on yourself and care for yourself and nurture your own nonprofit before you go the way of blockbustering by the dinosaurs. Look at your board and tell them, “We have this winning partnership idea that we want to collaborate with the for-profit sector for. Can I look at your LinkedIn contacts and see there might be someone there who you could introduce me to?” I am making it perfectly clear that I am not calling that person to ask for a check. I am looking for a true, authentic business partnership where I can increase their brand and community power, and they can help support us.” That is one starter right there.
 Russell: That is going right through the table and doing something for them first. Where can we add value? That is what a partnership is all about. It’s not one-sided. It’s about people bringing value. A lot of nonprofits have trouble looking at things that way when they are speaking with donors or potential donors. It’s not a hat in hand kind of thing. We can together provide a value that is going to make a change in our community. If we can do that, then we will be able to make some impact. In terms of allies or partners, what qualities do we look for in a good ally, and what do we do to make ourselves good allies for people we want to partner with?
 Barbara: One of the things I always coach nonprofits on is look at the mission statement. Look at the values of the company. What they’re doing right now, before you approach them. We really seem to have similar thought processes here and similar value traits. That would be someone I can approach. Look at their press releases. What are they growing? What are they talking about? When you do reach out to them, you can say, I read that press release and heard this, and this. That really aligns with what we’re doing, too. Maybe we can help each other get where we want to be.
 Russell: You can do that. The difference isn’t necessarily- if you have two or three organizations, you multiply your resources exponentially instead of sequentially.
 Barbara: Absolutely. That’s important. When you go out and start this, my philosophy where I found, whether I was doing real estate development or nonprofit business development, is the 30/10/3 rule. I am going to call 30 people. 10 of them want to talk to me. 3 want to say yes, I like that, let’s talk some more.
 Hugh: That’s a great ratio. 30/10/3. Talk to 30. 10-
 Barbara: Call 30. 10 will want to talk to you. I hear about this. 3 of them want to bite into it and say, “This is a good idea. I can see where this is helpful to me and helpful to you. Let’s talk.”
 Hugh: That’s an important routine.
 Russell: Talk to ten for every one you want to secure. That works for any customer base: donors, volunteers, potential board members. I love the idea of making sure that you check that alignment. People like to talk with people who have done some homework and know a little bit about their organization or them as a person. You start asking questions about them. LinkedIn is a good platform. Everybody’s favorite subject is them. They’re their own favorite subject. It’s finding a way to lift them up, and not blowing smoke. People can tell if you’re just blowing smoke. If there is an authentic connection, leveraging that and talking about that.
 Hugh: This is what we call ROR, Return on Relationship. That 30/10/3 rule is ongoing. I hear people say, “I talked to an organization about it, and it didn’t work.” I talked to an organization. I say, “I tried working out one day last year, and it didn’t work either.” Underneath what I’m hearing you say, there is a continuity. You have to stick with it. There is persistence. Speak to that. We think we’re bothering people. No, we’re not. We’re giving them an opportunity. Help reverse that paradigm, would you?
 Barbara: You need to have tenacity, just like a business would. I want this. I know I’m making a difference. I know my product is helping the community. You need to have the tenacity, the passion to go out with that and know you’re not bothering people. You don’t know what problems that business has. You have something to offer to help them with those problems. Do people know your brand? Do you need brand recognition? Do you need a new platform? Are you struggling in the hiring process? You can put a letter from us in your New Hire packet so when people interview with you, you’re right there to talk about it. In your follow-up emails, we are right there to say how amazing you are in a video. We’re your partnership in everything from sales to hiring. We don’t know who we know who might want your products in their stores. Truly embed yourself in that culture. Make it a give-give.
 Hugh: Russell, do you have your head around what Barbara Jaynes does? Can you explain it for people who are listening to her for the first time?
 Russell: What she does is bring people together from multiple sectors to solve social problems and put good systems in place and help people have conversations. The conversation that we rarely have, when you’re talking with people in nonprofits, is about value, the dreaded V word. That’s what we’re all bringing to the table. It’s helping people understand that they bring value, and to quantify that in terms that makes sense to other people. She helps in bringing business systems. Thinking of your organization as a business, as a producer of value, and approaching it from that place so that you’re out there offering everybody you come in contact with something of value, whether they are donors, providing pro bono work, a socially responsible business looking to support a cause, or a nonprofit looking to get support. It boils down to a couple of things: money and people. If you are short on either, at some point, you’re going to fold.
 Hugh: Barbara, how did he do?
 Barbara: He did great. He is true. I am called the connector. That’s important because I connect for winning relationships. He is right about the value add. I like to play the game, “Bigger and Better” in business. Did you ever play the game as a kid where you start off with a paper clip and go door to door? I have a paper clip – what will you trade me that is bigger and better? Then you go to the next door with what they give you and trade for something else.
 I do the same thing, with my nonprofits and business partnerships. I had a nonprofit I was meeting with and said, “A church came and built our fence a couple weeks ago.” “How did you thank them? How did you follow up?” We are going to send them a letter. “No, no, no. They have parishioners. You go and ask their pastor, ‘We want to thank your congregation in person. Could we have five minutes to stand up after your announcements and personally thank them and let them know what building this fence meant to us and talk about your charity?’” You have a captive audience of 300 or more people. Don’t walk away from that. That’s not a thank-you letter. Go get them.
 Hugh: Whoa. Did you hear that? Maybe we should do that.
 Russell: We have to work on this. When we do get you here to town, we will take you to McDonalds. Then we will swap that from Morton’s or something like that. That is too far. The idea is now firmly planted. It’s like toothpaste. It’s not going back in once it comes out.
 Hugh: You know who your friends are, don’t you? Russell, I heard her talk about installing or teaching business principles to nonprofits. I’m not sure that all businesses have those skills either. They think they do. They have some cash flow that masks their ignorance. That’s what Russ and I spend our life doing: helping nonprofit organizations think in terms of cash flow and budgeting and marketing and all the things businesses need. I find sometimes that even businesses that donate or buy sponsorships for nonprofits don’t know how to get the benefit of that sponsorship. They donate, but they don’t know how to say, “What’s this money going to create? What difference will it make?” They don’t know how to ask that. When they make a business decision to use marketing money to sponsor an event, they don’t know how to get a return on that investment. Is that part of what you help both sides explore?
 Barbara: It absolutely is, Hugh. It’s so important because I teach this to both sides. You need to say, for every $10 we bring in, we provide a box of groceries to a family that will feed them for a week. What nonprofits do with money is magical. For every $20 we can take care of 10 new dogs in our shelter. When you quantify it like that, it lets the business know, Oh, I am donating $5,000. It translates to 500 dogs. This is what I can do.
 On the nonprofit side, you should always be talking numbers. Numbers ring true with millennials and with businesses. When you say to someone, “This is what $50 can do,” I didn’t know you could do that with $50. I would have donated $500; I didn’t realize I would have upped my ante. Let them know from the beginning, if you’re doing an event, this is how much we want to raise. This is what it breaks down into. For every $20 increment, this is what it will change.
 Same on the business side. Let people know, Hey, this is what we did last year for nonprofits. Here is the impact for each one of them.
 Hugh: There is a lot in the ask. I served a church in Atlanta of 12,000. The preacher raised $18 million for the next phase of the building program, to double the size of the facility. He did that in 14 lunches. I was sitting in his office one day, and he had the cash before they dug any dirt. He is reading the newspaper where one of the people he had talked to had given $4 million for a building at one of the local universities. He called that guy up and said, “I’m sorry I asked you for such a small amount.”
 Russell: When you hit that sweet spot, we underestimate ourselves. It’s important to set those expectations. What is it that you want? I think the way to do that would be approaching a foundation or corporation is to look at it that you want to try to get, but find out what they want. Barbara is good at helping them find that because they don’t always know what they want to get. She sits with them and works with them and asks them what they want to try to do. You can’t get goodwill out of a Madison Avenue magazine spread. It comes with being connected with people, making a difference. If everyone is clear on the common goals, you can set some measures. With donors, it’s important to keep in touch with them. After they have written a check, let them know what the money is doing. The money should be quantified not just numerically, but in terms of story, in terms of people who are getting your services. How far those dollars are going. Thanking them. Highlighting some of them. This is what your support is making possible. They hear from you much more frequently than when you need money. if the only time they hear from you is when it’s time to write a check, they will run for the hills.
 Barbara: You are so right. That is not the thing to do. It shouldn’t be, I’ve gotten my check. Life is beautiful. Make that relationship true. Ask them, Can we do a quarterly updated video for your staff? Every quarter, let’s update them and let them know the impact and what is going on. You want to triple their Roladex, and they want to keep your employees. You want to embed yourself into the culture to support them and support your nonprofit. You do a video that goes out in an email link to every employee, thank them, let them know what you have done with their money. It’s amazing we have these wonderful programs, and we are able to serve so many more people. Last month, we had 50 people come in with this problem. We have to figure out how to solve this. Will you roll up your sleeves and help me solve it? You engage them beyond money. Sweat equity, mentorship, be there for me.
 I want to hit on something Russ said before about knowing who your audience is. I firmly believe you don’t just go out and throw stuff against the wall to see what sticks. So many people will say, “You’re a big company. Write me a check.” You have to have a reason. Start with a why. I really researched you. I know what you do. We have the same vibe. We’re good for each other. Let’s talk about this.
 Russell: A lot of that goes into the psychology of their branding. You have Nike that says, Just do it. If your message resonates with something along those lines, you get an idea of you look at who is in their commercials. Who are the people they are trying to reach, attract? How many of those people are in your tribe? They want that exposure, that goodwill. It’s important to look at that to see how we align with them. Just as importantly, to use language that resonates with them to start a conversation.
 I think the conversation starts with trying to find the right person. That may not always be somebody with a sponsorship label. It may be somebody in marketing, or have another title. They have different pockets of money. Only a certain number of dollars are earmarked for sponsorship. They could support you elsewhere. It’s having that conversation and asking them questions with what you have in mind, and bouncing something off of them. It’s trying to dig up information that’s not in their literature to get a feel for the person and start building that relationship. After you have an idea of where they’re going in that particular point in time, then you tell them about your project. After you have gathered enough information, you ask if it’s okay to send a proposal. But these folks are busy. You want to get a 15-mintue interview. Nothing will annoy them more than asking questions that are on their website that they spent money to make. Doing that homework is important. That is what Barbara is masterful at helping you do.
 Barbara: They have to know that you know who they are. They have to know why. Why have you called me? You need to have a good answer.
 I went to a meeting with one of my clients. The owner of the company across the table said, “Why did you call on us?” I could tell them exactly why. You belong to this association, and this technology association aligns with what this charity does. He’s like, Thank you. You know who we are. We walked out with a check. It made the difference in the world. To take that time, to know who you’re talking to, and why you’re talking to them.
 Russell: You don’t always expect to walk out with a check on the first visit, but if that’s the end result, be open to receiving that.
 Barbara: My client was very happy. It really opened their eyes to the way that I do my things. I relaly want my clients to learn from my playbook and to be able to run with it and do it on their own. I don’t want to be there permanently from them. As your community needs change, you will be able to go out and meet those needs.
 Russell:We get back to this discussion on value. A lot of businesses quantify that by their products and services. How can a nonprofit do that? A lot of people will sit there and actually have a limited view of what’s valuable to other people? What are some things they can do to demonstrate value?
 Barbara: Know your data. Know who you’re helping and how many people you’re serving. When you are meeting with that person, you have your numbers and alignment. When you ask that company what they need, do you need us to write a thank you letter that you can send to your vendors to let them know what a community ally you are and support you are? Do you need us to do a video to your vendors to let them know what you’re doing? It triples the Rolodex for the nonprofit and puts new eyes on them as well as help the business. Do you need us to do a video for your customers so when they purchase something and get the receipt, I am there to thank them personally and let them know how important you are in the community? They are not getting a pair of shoes; they are getting someone who makes a difference in the world. That’s who they’re buying from. Tell us what you need.
 Russell: You mentioned vendors, and I don’t know that people think that. Part of the value of your board of directors is the relationships they have. I don’t know if people think in terms of we don’t have a relationship with XYZ, but we have people on our board who have relationships with W company who is a vendor of XYZ. Do you frequently find that is a good way to approach an organization?
 Barbara: It is. Using vendors is important. They want that winning relationship with their internal customers. It creates even greater synergy. It gives the company that you want to ally with a better story that they can tell to their vendors. We are not buying copy paper from just anybody; we are buying copy paper from the company that does this. You have their community story, and you have their back. Make sure you are wearing each other’s jerseys.
 Russell: What do you think of that, Hugh? Are you ready to go out and buy a Cleveland Browns jersey and a Denver Broncos jersey just in case it all goes sideways for the Redskins?
 Hugh: I gather those are football teams. I am not much of a football fan. I am a NASCAR guy. I am in the South.
 This is intriguing. Let’s talk about your organization, Positively-Funded. How did you come to that name?
 Barbara: I wanted to change the way that nonprofits thought about funding. Not to think that you have to go out with your tail tucked between your legs and grovel and I gotta go out and beg because the lights are getting turned off. No. You have a value add. You have something positive to give to the business world beyond the community that you provide services for. Get out there and be positive with it. I have something to offer. I want to be your partner. I want to make your business thrive so that my community thrives also.  
 Hugh: It’s a win-win proposition. I heard Russ say earlier in the conversation about finding out what other people want. It’s something that he introduces to a conversation on finding board members or donors. It would occur to me the same thing would happen here. Find out what the business is interested in. You had done your homework, so you walked out with a check. You had studied what that company was about. I can’t tell you how many times that doesn’t happen with companies I know. They misspell the person’s name in a pitch. That is not a good start. How did you get the name for this company? How did you think of that name?
 Barbara: It’s what I just came up with. I wanted to make a difference in the way and change the mindset of how nonprofits felt they needed to be funded. You don’t need to beg. This is a positive thing. You are offering something positive to those financially investing in you, sweat equity investing in you, pro bono. You have something great to offer.
 Hugh: Let’s do a summary here. What are the top three to five mistakes that nonprofits make when they approach a company for some sort of connection, partnership, funding? What is the remedy to those mistakes?
 Barbara: I think the very first thing is do your homework. Study who you’re going after, and know why you’re going after them. Don’t go in cold.
 Hugh: The mistake is they don’t know what the company does, or who the person is. They have not honored that person at all.
 Barbara: When you talked about when you’re sending out a letter and misspelling the name, I advise to never blindly send out a letter. Do not do that. I research my companies. Call them first. Have a conversation. Then send a follow-up email. Thank them for their time. If you leave a voicemail, send an email. I left you a message this morning, and I want you to know why I left that message.
 Hugh: When you call a company, who do you ask for?
 Barbara: It depends on what the nonprofit really needs. You typically look at who is doing their community investments? Most companies have a community investment team. They have an employee engagement team. You ask for those things. Those types of departments.
 Hugh: The first mistake is know your enemy. You need to know your prospect. The problem is they don’t know who they are, know about them, know the personality. The remedy is study who they are and get educated before you even make the first call.
 Barbara: Absolutely. That is your very first thing. Know your audience.
 Hugh: Give us a few more. What is a mistake nonprofits make?
 Barbara: The other thing is going in for the kill, and I just want the check. No. Develop the relationship. You don’t just want that check. You need more than that check. You need partners. You need support. You need a strong four-legged stool. Ask for it. I need mentorship. Your CFO, I need help with my books. I need to understand how to financially run better. Give me mentorship. I need from your operations department. We are going to replace our roof in three years. I don’t know the first thing about getting a roofing contractor. I need to start saving for that now. I need to know what to look for. What is my best roof to have in the long term? Ask for the help. Ask for the right people. Go bottom to top. Go for their C-suite. Go for their board. Know those people. Research them. Know that you need more than just a check. You need sweat equity and volunteering, too.
 Hugh: Not knowing your prospects. Get to know them. Go in there thinking it’s one and done. Not working on long-term relationship. What’s another?
 Barbara: Not doing your follow-up and diligence. Not keeping that relationship fire stoked. Not staying in touch and saying, What can we offer you? I see that one of your goals is that you want to hire 10 new people. How can I help you with that? Do you want a letter from us saying how amazing you are that goes into your interview packets? Do you want a video for a thank you? How can we help? Do you want an opportunity, so on that person’s first day of work, I know a person who does this, every employee’s first day of work, they don’t show up at the company. This is our charity. You will go there and stock the shelves of this food back and spend the day with them. Tomorrow, you show up here.
 Hugh: That is great. That’s three really good ones. Do you want to float another one? Or is that good?
 Barbara: I really think it’s important that you have your number ducks in a row. Know your numbers. Know your numbers internally. Know how they work. Know your company’s numbers. I want to know what your turnover rate has been since we have started this partnership. I want to know your brand recognition. I want to know about your sales. I want to know about your customer satisfaction. I want to know that we have impacted you in return.
 Hugh: This is also reciprocal. When you are asking for money, you want to ask for a specific amount. There are some people who say, “I want $20-30,000.” That’s not specific. There is a $10,000 spread; it doesn’t sound like you’re careful with my money. It’s their money until they give it to you.
 Russell: Specificity is important. The universe will hear $20,000 if you say $20-30. $20,000 will show up. That’s what you put out there. That’s what you want. It helps to be specific. It sounds like all of these things, as far as looking for ways to be of service, can help build the long-term relationship with a business or between a business and nonprofit. What are some other things? What are the most important things, say for the business to do, or for the nonprofit to do? Maybe two or three things that are important for each of them to do to make sure that you can build and maintain a long-term relationship.
 Barbara: I think the very first thing in your follow-up plan is have a regular communication strategy. We’re going to talk. Whatever department is your go-to person, have a standing monthly conversation. Update each other. This is how things are going on our side, and here is your impact. Great. This is how things are going on our side, and here is your impact. Keep that communication going.
 Offer to spend time with their employees. Do a lunch and learn quarterly. Talk about how what seniors need. Here are the latest stats in America for seniors. Here is their food scarcity, transportation problems. Let us come in and talk about our wisdom in our sector, and how you can overcome these things, and how we work together.
 Hugh: Brilliant.
 Barbara: Invite us to come to your association. Whatever your trade association is, bring us along. Let us be your dog and pony show. We’re there for you.
 Hugh: That’s also part of top of mind marketing. They don’t forget you because you’re there, and you are always looking to add value to the other. There are business leaders who see nonprofit as their duty. I wrote my check, and I’m done. Rather than looking for the win-win, which takes time. I like your set of questions. Do you work just in Colorado? She has a superior attitude, Russell. I don’t know why. Just in Superior. Do you work all over?
 Barbara: I go beyond Superior, Colorado. Boulder County is my home, that’s for sure. I have worked with international nonprofits. I have worked with national nonprofits. I have worked with statewide nonprofits. I work with little babies with a staff of four. Everyone starts somewhere. Everyone can create winning partnerships, no matter what your size is.
 Hugh: Is there a place on your website where people can ping you and have a conversation with you to explore possibilities?
 Barbara: Absolutely. My phone number is on there. My email. There is a Contact form you can fill out. Whatever medium is your comfort zone, be it phone or email.
 Hugh: This is good stuff. I’m a conductor by trade. Musical conductor. Not railroad conductor. The composer/conductor Ralph Long Williams from Britain is known to have said, “Music did not reveal all of its secrets to just one person.” We can say that about funding, partnerships, leadership. It’s good. We have gotten some wisdom from a lot of people over the four years. Thank you for your time today.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 The messages you have shared today are close to our heart. We wish people in every community would have some wisdom to share.
 Barbara, I am going to throw it to you for a closing tip or challenge.
 Barbara: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. This is wonderful to be able to share the good news of you have something to offer. Go out and be positive in your funding. Don’t tuck your tail between your legs. I’d like to challenge nonprofits to look at your stool. How many legs do you have? How strong are they? Go find your community allies. Look beyond your traditional scope. What can I do? What do I have to offer? How can I collaborate? How can I be a good community collaborator, not only with the for-profit sector, but with other nonprofits? There is strength in numbers. Go out and be positively funded.
 Russell: Thanks always, Barbara. I am looking forward to having lunch with you later this week. That is the beauty of the bonus I get, Hugh. Barbara is in my backyard, and we are going to talk to people here and do what we can to come together and make some impact.
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Developing Relationships For Winning Partnerships with Barbara Jaynes</strong></h1> <p><strong>Barbara Jaynes</strong>is the founder of Positively-Funded. A Business Development firm focused on making nonprofits THRIVE. Barbara came to the nonprofit sector after having spent over fifteen years in large scale commercial real estate development. Bringing with her savvy negotiation skills and durable relationship development between the private and public sectors. Positively-Funded assists nonprofits with creating authentic community allies. Engaging for profit partners in nonprofit missions to increase their revenue, decrease employee turnover and create sustainable resilient communities. Barbara focuses on winning relationships for the long-term.</p> <p>More about Jayne <a href="http://www.positively-funded.com/">http://www.positively-funded.com</a> </p> <p><strong>The Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, folks. It’s Hugh Ballou in central western Virginia, where today the flowers are coming out, the sun is shining, it’s absolutely a gorgeous day. These are the old mountains in the Appalachians. You got all the young, pointy mountains out there in Denver, Russell.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> We haven’t filed them down yet. We have a lot of them, too.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You have a lot of them. We have a good guest that you actually talked to and got her on board today. It’s an important topic people don’t talk about globally, or even around the corner in their own communities. There is a lot more we can do. Barbara Jaynes, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em></p> <p><strong>Barbara Jaynes:</strong> Hello, Hugh. Hello, Russ. Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tell our listeners a little bit about Barbara, your history, and why you’re doing what you’re doing now.</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> I’d love to, Hugh. Thank you. In 2006, my family and I moved to Superior, Colorado right outside Boulder. Before that, I lived in Cleveland and did inner city redevelopment. I worked in some of the toughest neighborhoods in the country and did urban renewal. I did some hospitals, large scale, ground up shopping centers and grocery stores. I loved what I did. It was my vocation. When I came to Denver, it wasn’t as old, and people weren’t as interested in my vocation and developing strong communities.  So I decided to go to the nonprofit sector and take my vocation and business skills there.</p> <p>I went to one of the most well-known nonprofits in Denver. I would bring them these incredible partners. They didn’t know how to develop the relationships. They just wanted the check. You can’t do that. Target doesn’t want you to burn through a gallon of milk one time; they want you to do it 1,000 times. Nonprofits need to start thinking like businesses. I realized that. They needed to learn how to develop these relationships and know they are a value add. That’s how Positively Funded was founded.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Positively Funded. That’s your business and website?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> It is. Positively-Funded.com.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What’s that about?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> I wanted nonprofits to think of a positive way to fund themselves. What I do is beneficial to both parties. It’s not about give me, give me, give me. It’s about going out and developing relationships that work. In the business sector you find your community allies and ask, “What is it that you need? Are you having a hard time engaging millennials? Are you having a hard time keeping employees? Do you need a better market profile? Do you need sales increased?” You work with the nonprofit to benefit yourself to help your business grow and benefit the nonprofit at the same time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, did you hear that? There is a synergy between for-profit and for-purpose businesses. What did you hear in that, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s all about collaboration. We had a great discussion on that. I have been wanting to get Barbara on the show for a while. We just started having discussions. There are people I am meeting all over the place right here in town that Barbara and I will be talking with soon. It never ceases to amaze me how when you are vibrating at a certain frequency, people start to turn up. I had a good friend who did therapy for veterans who is recently retired. Just ran into her this morning. We were having coffee. She said, “What can I do?” That is somebody Barbara needs to meet and other people around here need to meet. We can get a lot more done together. The traditional models of each thing don’t seem to fit. I am starting to see people who are creating hybrid businesses, socially responsible businesses. They are taking their for-purpose enterprises in new directions and looking at mission-based revenue. It’s all exciting. It starts with partnerships and being able to talk to each other.</p> <p>Barbara and I met for lunch one day. She is so easy to talk to. It could be that we are vibrating on the same frequency. It could be a mild form of group psychosis. Either way, the results will be the same if we collaborate. Barb’s masterful at putting these partnerships together. She is from my hometown. It’s not surprising.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s the thin air there that helps inspire you, I’m sure. Russ, we preach the song of working together, of collaborating. The town where I live, Lynchburg, the University of Lynchburg, is launching a center for nonprofit leadership around the theme of collaboration. We have lots of nonprofits that distribute food to hungry people, and some who provide meals in addition to that. There is no overarching umbrella of how they can work together. If somebody is hungry on a Friday night, none of them are available for food. If someone is bound at home and can’t use transportation, there is no way they can get to this food bank. We are putting together an umbrella organization for people to know that other ones exist, and where can we have a meaningful conversation?</p> <p>Barbara, let’s start from the beginning. We have these different entities. From where I sit, I’ve been in history longer than you guys, today it’s more important for the work of our nonprofits, whatever we call ourselves, our work is more important today because the world is so splintered and fragmented and toxic. We do the substantive work of doing good. But really, it works better if we work together. Where is the starting point? Suppose the scenario I have just outlined. There are a bunch of medical facilities that are free clinics. How do you start this conversation? How do you paint this paradigm of benefit? How do you take people who are interested and make them allies?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> Hugh, the scenario that you put out is very common. One nonprofit does this, and another one does that. The nonprofits need to come together and collaborate as well. They need to look at where are the gaps that we need to fill in. We both do amazing things. No one nonprofit can be everything to the world. You might take a scenario and take those gaps and go out and find a community partner. Say, “We have this need. Here is what it is. We are not serving-” Take your example on a Friday night. While we both have food, we’re not available to serve them. We don’t have the infrastructure. We don’t have the bodies to do it ourselves. How could we work with you to help solve this problem? Ask for the mentorship from those companies.</p> <p>When you work with a company, it’s so important that you are working from bottom to top, top to bottom, hitting everyone. So go to their development people, their operations people, their finance people in the C-suite and say that you need mentorship in these areas. We have this problem. Help us solve it. Go to their new employees. Say, we could use some volunteers. The company you work for is amazing because they are helping to support the community and feed those who are hungry. We need your support as well. Talk about employee retention and the mental health benefits from volunteering. And engaging millennials. Millennials don’t just want what’s in the envelope at the end of the week. They want a purpose and a reason to be there. You the nonprofit can help give them that purpose. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Connecting those dots is essential. There is this fear factor where we have our group of volunteers, and we don’t want people to take them. We have our group of donors. Volunteers commonly work with several organizations, and donors donate to a bunch of organizations. Speak to this fear of having these conversations. How do we get people to the table to even explore the potential?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> That is so true. When it comes down to donors and volunteers and corporate champions, suddenly everyone turns into 12-year-old mean girls. You have to stop that mindset. You cannot come from the mindset of scarcity. You have to come from the mindset of, I am a value added. Don’t you want volunteers and donors who are passionate about what you’re doing? If they’re not passionate about you, they’re not really your volunteers or donors. They might just be there for the day. Don’t you want someone for the long haul to create an authentic long-term relationship with them? Shouldn’t you find the right people for your mission that have the passion for it who are truly going to become your partners?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ is thinking on that one. He is bubbling up.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You have to get the right people on the bus. That involves speaking to them in a way that resonates with them. It’s finding that spot where you connect, and they get that. One of the things we were thinking about is running an organization, when do you come to the realization that you need allies in the community?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> I’ll tell you my life philosophy, which is how I raised my girls. The strongest trees have the most branches. I gave my girls a lot of branches. We don’t have family here in Colorado. We moved to the other coast away from everyone. I gave them branches at church. We have branches in the neighborhood. They have branches at school. They had branches at sports. They had a lot of strength because they had a lot of different people in their lives to help nurture them because it does take your village.</p> <p>You should look at your nonprofit the same way. Do you have enough branches? Are you a strong four-legged stool? Do you have grants? Do you have community allies? Do you have individual donors? Do you have a fundraising program? You can’t just rely on one leg to be a strong stool. You need a little bit of everything. If you think about how you diversify your personal financial portfolio, we’re all told to do that, do that with your nonprofit funding. Is your portfolio diversified? Do you have four strong legs to hold you up? Or are you one grant away from closing your door? If you don’t have those four strong legs, go out and make partners. Go out and find community allies. Bring the for-profit sector in to you and share your passion and your story.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What does that process look like? People realize they need partners, but how do I start figuring out which ones I need and how to go about getting them?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> That’s a great question. For a lot of people, that is a conversation stopper. They’re like, I know I need partners, but I don’t know what to do. Then someone comes to your door and needs help, and it ends right there. You have to take some time out to focus on yourself and care for yourself and nurture your own nonprofit before you go the way of blockbustering by the dinosaurs. Look at your board and tell them, “We have this winning partnership idea that we want to collaborate with the for-profit sector for. Can I look at your LinkedIn contacts and see there might be someone there who you could introduce me to?” I am making it perfectly clear that I am not calling that person to ask for a check. I am looking for a true, authentic business partnership where I can increase their brand and community power, and they can help support us.” That is one starter right there.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is going right through the table and doing something for them first. Where can we add value? That is what a partnership is all about. It’s not one-sided. It’s about people bringing value. A lot of nonprofits have trouble looking at things that way when they are speaking with donors or potential donors. It’s not a hat in hand kind of thing. We can together provide a value that is going to make a change in our community. If we can do that, then we will be able to make some impact. In terms of allies or partners, what qualities do we look for in a good ally, and what do we do to make ourselves good allies for people we want to partner with?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> One of the things I always coach nonprofits on is look at the mission statement. Look at the values of the company. What they’re doing right now, before you approach them. We really seem to have similar thought processes here and similar value traits. That would be someone I can approach. Look at their press releases. What are they growing? What are they talking about? When you do reach out to them, you can say, I read that press release and heard this, and this. That really aligns with what we’re doing, too. Maybe we can help each other get where we want to be.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You can do that. The difference isn’t necessarily- if you have two or three organizations, you multiply your resources exponentially instead of sequentially.</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> Absolutely. That’s important. When you go out and start this, my philosophy where I found, whether I was doing real estate development or nonprofit business development, is the 30/10/3 rule. I am going to call 30 people. 10 of them want to talk to me. 3 want to say yes, I like that, let’s talk some more.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a great ratio. 30/10/3. Talk to 30. 10-</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> Call 30. 10 will want to talk to you. I hear about this. 3 of them want to bite into it and say, “This is a good idea. I can see where this is helpful to me and helpful to you. Let’s talk.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s an important routine.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Talk to ten for every one you want to secure. That works for any customer base: donors, volunteers, potential board members. I love the idea of making sure that you check that alignment. People like to talk with people who have done some homework and know a little bit about their organization or them as a person. You start asking questions about them. LinkedIn is a good platform. Everybody’s favorite subject is them. They’re their own favorite subject. It’s finding a way to lift them up, and not blowing smoke. People can tell if you’re just blowing smoke. If there is an authentic connection, leveraging that and talking about that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is what we call ROR, Return on Relationship. That 30/10/3 rule is ongoing. I hear people say, “I talked to an organization about it, and it didn’t work.” I talked to an organization. I say, “I tried working out one day last year, and it didn’t work either.” Underneath what I’m hearing you say, there is a continuity. You have to stick with it. There is persistence. Speak to that. We think we’re bothering people. No, we’re not. We’re giving them an opportunity. Help reverse that paradigm, would you?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> You need to have tenacity, just like a business would. I want this. I know I’m making a difference. I know my product is helping the community. You need to have the tenacity, the passion to go out with that and know you’re not bothering people. You don’t know what problems that business has. You have something to offer to help them with those problems. Do people know your brand? Do you need brand recognition? Do you need a new platform? Are you struggling in the hiring process? You can put a letter from us in your New Hire packet so when people interview with you, you’re right there to talk about it. In your follow-up emails, we are right there to say how amazing you are in a video. We’re your partnership in everything from sales to hiring. We don’t know who we know who might want your products in their stores. Truly embed yourself in that culture. Make it a give-give.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, do you have your head around what Barbara Jaynes does? Can you explain it for people who are listening to her for the first time?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What she does is bring people together from multiple sectors to solve social problems and put good systems in place and help people have conversations. The conversation that we rarely have, when you’re talking with people in nonprofits, is about value, the dreaded V word. That’s what we’re all bringing to the table. It’s helping people understand that they bring value, and to quantify that in terms that makes sense to other people. She helps in bringing business systems. Thinking of your organization as a business, as a producer of value, and approaching it from that place so that you’re out there offering everybody you come in contact with something of value, whether they are donors, providing pro bono work, a socially responsible business looking to support a cause, or a nonprofit looking to get support. It boils down to a couple of things: money and people. If you are short on either, at some point, you’re going to fold.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Barbara, how did he do?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> He did great. He is true. I am called the connector. That’s important because I connect for winning relationships. He is right about the value add. I like to play the game, “Bigger and Better” in business. Did you ever play the game as a kid where you start off with a paper clip and go door to door? I have a paper clip – what will you trade me that is bigger and better? Then you go to the next door with what they give you and trade for something else.</p> <p>I do the same thing, with my nonprofits and business partnerships. I had a nonprofit I was meeting with and said, “A church came and built our fence a couple weeks ago.” “How did you thank them? How did you follow up?” We are going to send them a letter. “No, no, no. They have parishioners. You go and ask their pastor, ‘We want to thank your congregation in person. Could we have five minutes to stand up after your announcements and personally thank them and let them know what building this fence meant to us and talk about your charity?’” You have a captive audience of 300 or more people. Don’t walk away from that. That’s not a thank-you letter. Go get them.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Whoa. Did you hear that? Maybe we should do that.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> We have to work on this. When we do get you here to town, we will take you to McDonalds. Then we will swap that from Morton’s or something like that. That is too far. The idea is now firmly planted. It’s like toothpaste. It’s not going back in once it comes out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh</strong>: You know who your friends are, don’t you? Russell, I heard her talk about installing or teaching business principles to nonprofits. I’m not sure that all businesses have those skills either. They think they do. They have some cash flow that masks their ignorance. That’s what Russ and I spend our life doing: helping nonprofit organizations think in terms of cash flow and budgeting and marketing and all the things businesses need. I find sometimes that even businesses that donate or buy sponsorships for nonprofits don’t know how to get the benefit of that sponsorship. They donate, but they don’t know how to say, “What’s this money going to create? What difference will it make?” They don’t know how to ask that. When they make a business decision to use marketing money to sponsor an event, they don’t know how to get a return on that investment. Is that part of what you help both sides explore?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> It absolutely is, Hugh. It’s so important because I teach this to both sides. You need to say, for every $10 we bring in, we provide a box of groceries to a family that will feed them for a week. What nonprofits do with money is magical. For every $20 we can take care of 10 new dogs in our shelter. When you quantify it like that, it lets the business know, Oh, I am donating $5,000. It translates to 500 dogs. This is what I can do.</p> <p>On the nonprofit side, you should always be talking numbers. Numbers ring true with millennials and with businesses. When you say to someone, “This is what $50 can do,” I didn’t know you could do that with $50. I would have donated $500; I didn’t realize I would have upped my ante. Let them know from the beginning, if you’re doing an event, this is how much we want to raise. This is what it breaks down into. For every $20 increment, this is what it will change.</p> <p>Same on the business side. Let people know, Hey, this is what we did last year for nonprofits. Here is the impact for each one of them.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a lot in the ask. I served a church in Atlanta of 12,000. The preacher raised $18 million for the next phase of the building program, to double the size of the facility. He did that in 14 lunches. I was sitting in his office one day, and he had the cash before they dug any dirt. He is reading the newspaper where one of the people he had talked to had given $4 million for a building at one of the local universities. He called that guy up and said, “I’m sorry I asked you for such a small amount.”</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> When you hit that sweet spot, we underestimate ourselves. It’s important to set those expectations. What is it that you want? I think the way to do that would be approaching a foundation or corporation is to look at it that you want to try to get, but find out what they want. Barbara is good at helping them find that because they don’t always know what they want to get. She sits with them and works with them and asks them what they want to try to do. You can’t get goodwill out of a Madison Avenue magazine spread. It comes with being connected with people, making a difference. If everyone is clear on the common goals, you can set some measures. With donors, it’s important to keep in touch with them. After they have written a check, let them know what the money is doing. The money should be quantified not just numerically, but in terms of story, in terms of people who are getting your services. How far those dollars are going. Thanking them. Highlighting some of them. This is what your support is making possible. They hear from you much more frequently than when you need money. if the only time they hear from you is when it’s time to write a check, they will run for the hills.</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> You are so right. That is not the thing to do. It shouldn’t be, I’ve gotten my check. Life is beautiful. Make that relationship true. Ask them, Can we do a quarterly updated video for your staff? Every quarter, let’s update them and let them know the impact and what is going on. You want to triple their Roladex, and they want to keep your employees. You want to embed yourself into the culture to support them and support your nonprofit. You do a video that goes out in an email link to every employee, thank them, let them know what you have done with their money. It’s amazing we have these wonderful programs, and we are able to serve so many more people. Last month, we had 50 people come in with this problem. We have to figure out how to solve this. Will you roll up your sleeves and help me solve it? You engage them beyond money. Sweat equity, mentorship, be there for me.</p> <p>I want to hit on something Russ said before about knowing who your audience is. I firmly believe you don’t just go out and throw stuff against the wall to see what sticks. So many people will say, “You’re a big company. Write me a check.” You have to have a reason. Start with a why. I really researched you. I know what you do. We have the same vibe. We’re good for each other. Let’s talk about this.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> A lot of that goes into the psychology of their branding. You have Nike that says, Just do it. If your message resonates with something along those lines, you get an idea of you look at who is in their commercials. Who are the people they are trying to reach, attract? How many of those people are in your tribe? They want that exposure, that goodwill. It’s important to look at that to see how we align with them. Just as importantly, to use language that resonates with them to start a conversation.</p> <p>I think the conversation starts with trying to find the right person. That may not always be somebody with a sponsorship label. It may be somebody in marketing, or have another title. They have different pockets of money. Only a certain number of dollars are earmarked for sponsorship. They could support you elsewhere. It’s having that conversation and asking them questions with what you have in mind, and bouncing something off of them. It’s trying to dig up information that’s not in their literature to get a feel for the person and start building that relationship. After you have an idea of where they’re going in that particular point in time, then you tell them about your project. After you have gathered enough information, you ask if it’s okay to send a proposal. But these folks are busy. You want to get a 15-mintue interview. Nothing will annoy them more than asking questions that are on their website that they spent money to make. Doing that homework is important. That is what Barbara is masterful at helping you do.</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> They have to know that you know who they are. They have to know why. Why have you called me? You need to have a good answer.</p> <p>I went to a meeting with one of my clients. The owner of the company across the table said, “Why did you call on us?” I could tell them exactly why. You belong to this association, and this technology association aligns with what this charity does. He’s like, Thank you. You know who we are. We walked out with a check. It made the difference in the world. To take that time, to know who you’re talking to, and why you’re talking to them.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You don’t always expect to walk out with a check on the first visit, but if that’s the end result, be open to receiving that.</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> My client was very happy. It really opened their eyes to the way that I do my things. I relaly want my clients to learn from my playbook and to be able to run with it and do it on their own. I don’t want to be there permanently from them. As your community needs change, you will be able to go out and meet those needs.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>We get back to this discussion on value. A lot of businesses quantify that by their products and services. How can a nonprofit do that? A lot of people will sit there and actually have a limited view of what’s valuable to other people? What are some things they can do to demonstrate value?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> Know your data. Know who you’re helping and how many people you’re serving. When you are meeting with that person, you have your numbers and alignment. When you ask that company what they need, do you need us to write a thank you letter that you can send to your vendors to let them know what a community ally you are and support you are? Do you need us to do a video to your vendors to let them know what you’re doing? It triples the Rolodex for the nonprofit and puts new eyes on them as well as help the business. Do you need us to do a video for your customers so when they purchase something and get the receipt, I am there to thank them personally and let them know how important you are in the community? They are not getting a pair of shoes; they are getting someone who makes a difference in the world. That’s who they’re buying from. Tell us what you need.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You mentioned vendors, and I don’t know that people think that. Part of the value of your board of directors is the relationships they have. I don’t know if people think in terms of we don’t have a relationship with XYZ, but we have people on our board who have relationships with W company who is a vendor of XYZ. Do you frequently find that is a good way to approach an organization?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> It is. Using vendors is important. They want that winning relationship with their internal customers. It creates even greater synergy. It gives the company that you want to ally with a better story that they can tell to their vendors. We are not buying copy paper from just anybody; we are buying copy paper from the company that does this. You have their community story, and you have their back. Make sure you are wearing each other’s jerseys.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What do you think of that, Hugh? Are you ready to go out and buy a Cleveland Browns jersey and a Denver Broncos jersey just in case it all goes sideways for the Redskins?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I gather those are football teams. I am not much of a football fan. I am a NASCAR guy. I am in the South.</p> <p>This is intriguing. Let’s talk about your organization, Positively-Funded. How did you come to that name?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> I wanted to change the way that nonprofits thought about funding. Not to think that you have to go out with your tail tucked between your legs and grovel and I gotta go out and beg because the lights are getting turned off. No. You have a value add. You have something positive to give to the business world beyond the community that you provide services for. Get out there and be positive with it. I have something to offer. I want to be your partner. I want to make your business thrive so that my community thrives also. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s a win-win proposition. I heard Russ say earlier in the conversation about finding out what other people want. It’s something that he introduces to a conversation on finding board members or donors. It would occur to me the same thing would happen here. Find out what the business is interested in. You had done your homework, so you walked out with a check. You had studied what that company was about. I can’t tell you how many times that doesn’t happen with companies I know. They misspell the person’s name in a pitch. That is not a good start. How did you get the name for this company? How did you think of that name?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> It’s what I just came up with. I wanted to make a difference in the way and change the mindset of how nonprofits felt they needed to be funded. You don’t need to beg. This is a positive thing. You are offering something positive to those financially investing in you, sweat equity investing in you, pro bono. You have something great to offer.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Let’s do a summary here. What are the top three to five mistakes that nonprofits make when they approach a company for some sort of connection, partnership, funding? What is the remedy to those mistakes?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> I think the very first thing is do your homework. Study who you’re going after, and know why you’re going after them. Don’t go in cold.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The mistake is they don’t know what the company does, or who the person is. They have not honored that person at all.</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> When you talked about when you’re sending out a letter and misspelling the name, I advise to never blindly send out a letter. Do not do that. I research my companies. Call them first. Have a conversation. Then send a follow-up email. Thank them for their time. If you leave a voicemail, send an email. I left you a message this morning, and I want you to know why I left that message.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When you call a company, who do you ask for?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> It depends on what the nonprofit really needs. You typically look at who is doing their community investments? Most companies have a community investment team. They have an employee engagement team. You ask for those things. Those types of departments.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The first mistake is know your enemy. You need to know your prospect. The problem is they don’t know who they are, know about them, know the personality. The remedy is study who they are and get educated before you even make the first call.</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> Absolutely. That is your very first thing. Know your audience.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Give us a few more. What is a mistake nonprofits make?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> The other thing is going in for the kill, and I just want the check. No. Develop the relationship. You don’t just want that check. You need more than that check. You need partners. You need support. You need a strong four-legged stool. Ask for it. I need mentorship. Your CFO, I need help with my books. I need to understand how to financially run better. Give me mentorship. I need from your operations department. We are going to replace our roof in three years. I don’t know the first thing about getting a roofing contractor. I need to start saving for that now. I need to know what to look for. What is my best roof to have in the long term? Ask for the help. Ask for the right people. Go bottom to top. Go for their C-suite. Go for their board. Know those people. Research them. Know that you need more than just a check. You need sweat equity and volunteering, too.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Not knowing your prospects. Get to know them. Go in there thinking it’s one and done. Not working on long-term relationship. What’s another?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> Not doing your follow-up and diligence. Not keeping that relationship fire stoked. Not staying in touch and saying, What can we offer you? I see that one of your goals is that you want to hire 10 new people. How can I help you with that? Do you want a letter from us saying how amazing you are that goes into your interview packets? Do you want a video for a thank you? How can we help? Do you want an opportunity, so on that person’s first day of work, I know a person who does this, every employee’s first day of work, they don’t show up at the company. This is our charity. You will go there and stock the shelves of this food back and spend the day with them. Tomorrow, you show up here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is great. That’s three really good ones. Do you want to float another one? Or is that good?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> I really think it’s important that you have your number ducks in a row. Know your numbers. Know your numbers internally. Know how they work. Know your company’s numbers. I want to know what your turnover rate has been since we have started this partnership. I want to know your brand recognition. I want to know about your sales. I want to know about your customer satisfaction. I want to know that we have impacted you in return.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is also reciprocal. When you are asking for money, you want to ask for a specific amount. There are some people who say, “I want $20-30,000.” That’s not specific. There is a $10,000 spread; it doesn’t sound like you’re careful with my money. It’s their money until they give it to you.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Specificity is important. The universe will hear $20,000 if you say $20-30. $20,000 will show up. That’s what you put out there. That’s what you want. It helps to be specific. It sounds like all of these things, as far as looking for ways to be of service, can help build the long-term relationship with a business or between a business and nonprofit. What are some other things? What are the most important things, say for the business to do, or for the nonprofit to do? Maybe two or three things that are important for each of them to do to make sure that you can build and maintain a long-term relationship.</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> I think the very first thing in your follow-up plan is have a regular communication strategy. We’re going to talk. Whatever department is your go-to person, have a standing monthly conversation. Update each other. This is how things are going on our side, and here is your impact. Great. This is how things are going on our side, and here is your impact. Keep that communication going.</p> <p>Offer to spend time with their employees. Do a lunch and learn quarterly. Talk about how what seniors need. Here are the latest stats in America for seniors. Here is their food scarcity, transportation problems. Let us come in and talk about our wisdom in our sector, and how you can overcome these things, and how we work together.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Brilliant.</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> Invite us to come to your association. Whatever your trade association is, bring us along. Let us be your dog and pony show. We’re there for you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s also part of top of mind marketing. They don’t forget you because you’re there, and you are always looking to add value to the other. There are business leaders who see nonprofit as their duty. I wrote my check, and I’m done. Rather than looking for the win-win, which takes time. I like your set of questions. Do you work just in Colorado? She has a superior attitude, Russell. I don’t know why. Just in Superior. Do you work all over?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> I go beyond Superior, Colorado. Boulder County is my home, that’s for sure. I have worked with international nonprofits. I have worked with national nonprofits. I have worked with statewide nonprofits. I work with little babies with a staff of four. Everyone starts somewhere. Everyone can create winning partnerships, no matter what your size is.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Is there a place on your website where people can ping you and have a conversation with you to explore possibilities?</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> Absolutely. My phone number is on there. My email. There is a Contact form you can fill out. Whatever medium is your comfort zone, be it phone or email.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is good stuff. I’m a conductor by trade. Musical conductor. Not railroad conductor. The composer/conductor Ralph Long Williams from Britain is known to have said, “Music did not reveal all of its secrets to just one person.” We can say that about funding, partnerships, leadership. It’s good. We have gotten some wisdom from a lot of people over the four years. Thank you for your time today.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from Wordsprint*</p> <p>The messages you have shared today are close to our heart. We wish people in every community would have some wisdom to share.</p> <p>Barbara, I am going to throw it to you for a closing tip or challenge.</p> <p><strong>Barbara:</strong> Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. This is wonderful to be able to share the good news of you have something to offer. Go out and be positive in your funding. Don’t tuck your tail between your legs. I’d like to challenge nonprofits to look at your stool. How many legs do you have? How strong are they? Go find your community allies. Look beyond your traditional scope. What can I do? What do I have to offer? How can I collaborate? How can I be a good community collaborator, not only with the for-profit sector, but with other nonprofits? There is strength in numbers. Go out and be positively funded.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thanks always, Barbara. I am looking forward to having lunch with you later this week. That is the beauty of the bonus I get, Hugh. Barbara is in my backyard, and we are going to talk to people here and do what we can to come together and make some impact.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>How Fundraising Really Works:How to Secure the Best Talent </title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-fundraising-really-workshow-to-secure-the-best-talent</link>
      <description>How Fundraising Really Works: How to Secure the Best Talent Interview With Jason Lewis
 Jason Lewisis a CFRE &amp; AFP Master Trainer who provides the sector with an often needed contrarian voice, willing to question deeply ingrained beliefs and assumptions of how effective fundraising really works. Whether writing or speaking, Jason challenges the prevailing wisdom about effective fundraising practices, hiring decisions, and donor behavior. Jason’s first book, The War for Fundraising Talent, is an honest yet hopeful critique of professional fundraising, intended especially for small shops that find it difficult to consistently achieve their fundraising goals.
 Jason is the host of The Fundraising Talent Podcast. Every week, Jason and his guest have an honest conversation about what it means to be a fundraising professional. The podcast provides listeners with a better understanding of what it means to be in one of the sector’s critically important yet least understood roles.
 Jason is the creator of The Fundraising Toolbox, introduced in the conclusion ofThe War for Fundraising Talent, which consists of four planning models designed to ensure that nonprofit organizations can align their board, professional staff and volunteers around a shared understanding of how effective fundraising really works.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 07 Apr 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/79c85f30-b329-11eb-9f0f-630c20d93db0/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview With Jason Lewis</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How Fundraising Really Works: How to Secure the Best Talent Interview With Jason Lewis
 Jason Lewisis a CFRE &amp; AFP Master Trainer who provides the sector with an often needed contrarian voice, willing to question deeply ingrained beliefs and assumptions of how effective fundraising really works. Whether writing or speaking, Jason challenges the prevailing wisdom about effective fundraising practices, hiring decisions, and donor behavior. Jason’s first book, The War for Fundraising Talent, is an honest yet hopeful critique of professional fundraising, intended especially for small shops that find it difficult to consistently achieve their fundraising goals.
 Jason is the host of The Fundraising Talent Podcast. Every week, Jason and his guest have an honest conversation about what it means to be a fundraising professional. The podcast provides listeners with a better understanding of what it means to be in one of the sector’s critically important yet least understood roles.
 Jason is the creator of The Fundraising Toolbox, introduced in the conclusion ofThe War for Fundraising Talent, which consists of four planning models designed to ensure that nonprofit organizations can align their board, professional staff and volunteers around a shared understanding of how effective fundraising really works.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1>How Fundraising Really Works:<br> How to Secure the Best Talent Interview With Jason Lewis</h1> <p><strong>Jason Lewis</strong>is a CFRE &amp; AFP Master Trainer who provides the sector with an often needed contrarian voice, willing to question deeply ingrained beliefs and assumptions of how effective fundraising really works. Whether writing or speaking, Jason challenges the prevailing wisdom about effective fundraising practices, hiring decisions, and donor behavior. Jason’s first book, The War for Fundraising Talent, is an honest yet hopeful critique of professional fundraising, intended especially for small shops that find it difficult to consistently achieve their fundraising goals.</p> <p>Jason is the host of <em>The Fundraising Talent Podcast</em>. Every week, Jason and his guest have an honest conversation about what it means to be a fundraising professional. The podcast provides listeners with a better understanding of what it means to be in one of the sector’s critically important yet least understood roles.</p> <p>Jason is the creator of <em>The Fundraising Toolbox</em>, introduced in the conclusion of<em>The War for Fundraising Talent</em>, which consists of four planning models designed to ensure that nonprofit organizations can align their board, professional staff and volunteers around a shared understanding of how effective fundraising really works.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3629</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Challenges of Leading a Nonprofit Association: Panel of Experts</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-challenges-of-leading-a-nonprofit-association-panel-of-experts</link>
      <description>The Challenges of Leading a Nonprofit Association:
   David Bone, FUMMWA 
  Jim Rindelaub, ALCM 
  Kelly Abraham, PAM 
  FUMMWA
   David L. Bone has served since 1991 as the Executive Director of The Fellowship of United Methodists in Music and Worship Arts. In this position, he manages the program and financial affairs of The Fellowship. David is also the co-author of “The United Methodist Music and Worship Planner” and “Prepare! A Weekly Worship Planbook.” David was on the worship planning teams for the 2012 and 2016 General Conferences of The UMC.
   David holds Master of Music degrees in Sacred Music and Choral Conducting from Southern Methodist University. David is a regular clinician at local and national events in the areas of music, worship, and choral conducting.      The Fellowship of United Methodists in Music and Worship Artsexists to assist worship leaders in creating meaningful worship experiences that bring people into deeper relationships with God and each other. Founded in 1955 as the National Fellowship of Methodist Musicians, The Fellowship has grown to include worship artists, clergy, and laity involved in all aspects of worship from a variety of denominations and experiences.     ACLM
   Jim Rindelaubis a lifelong Lutheran with church music degrees from St. Olaf College and Westminster Choir College. He has served as the organist/music director at Saint Mark's Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jacksonville, FL, Grace Lutheran Church in Phillipsburg, NJ, Faith Evangelical Lutheran Church in Glen Ellyn, IL, First United Lutheran Church in Dallas, TX and currently Ascension Lutheran Church in Indian Harbour Beach, FL. He was the founding director of Jacksonville's Community Bach Vespers Chorus and Chamber Orchestra. Jim has served on the Association of Lutheran Church Musicians National Board as Region II president and was the organization's 2003 National Conference Chair held in San Diego. He has served in various offices for local American Guild of Organists and Choristers Guild Chapters. As a deacon in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Jim chaired synodical worship committees in Florida and Illinois. Jim served as the Choristers Guild executive director from 2004 - 2017.             The Association of Lutheran Church Musicians: Music is a vital expression of Lutheran worship. The church’s song takes many forms and is expressed in many ways. By sharing the knowledge, experience and passion that honor our heritage and inspire our future, ALCM nurtures and equips those who lead music in worship. ALCM offers practical education programs and diverse resources through conferences, publications and fellowship to serve musicians of all types – from paid professionals to volunteers. By connecting servant leaders to one another and by cultivating their musical gifts, ALCM supports worshipping communities in the proclamation of the gospel.
     PAM
   Kelly Abraham serves the Presbyterian Association of Musicians (PAM) from its headquarters in Louisville, Kentucky. Before joining PAM, she was the Director of Youth &amp; Families at First Presbyterian Church in Lexington, Kentucky. And a lifetime before that, she spent her days in fiscal administration at the University of Missouri-Columbia.  She is a graduate of University of Puget Sound (accounting &amp; business) and University of Missouri - Columbia (MBA).  She loves youth, music, collaborative worship planning, strong liturgy and the synergy that comes with working with people not like her. She is married to Kirk and the mother of two teenage girls.    The Presbyterian Association of Musiciansprovides resources, conferences, publications and a vast network of members who are engaged in worship, music, and the arts worldwide. Becoming a member of PAM gives you instant access to these valuable benefits which will improve your worship planning for any size church in any location with information addressing new and old issues facing all denominations.
 ​Choir directors, worship musicians, organists, Christian educators, artists, clergy, and lay people will find PAM to be a valuable resource for creative worship planning. PAM is not just for Presbyterians. Other denominations find our resources, conferences, and publications helpful in their service to God.
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 31 Mar 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/79e48994-b329-11eb-9f0f-8b49239fedaa/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Association Executive Directors Share there Work</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Challenges of Leading a Nonprofit Association:
   David Bone, FUMMWA 
  Jim Rindelaub, ALCM 
  Kelly Abraham, PAM 
  FUMMWA
   David L. Bone has served since 1991 as the Executive Director of The Fellowship of United Methodists in Music and Worship Arts. In this position, he manages the program and financial affairs of The Fellowship. David is also the co-author of “The United Methodist Music and Worship Planner” and “Prepare! A Weekly Worship Planbook.” David was on the worship planning teams for the 2012 and 2016 General Conferences of The UMC.
   David holds Master of Music degrees in Sacred Music and Choral Conducting from Southern Methodist University. David is a regular clinician at local and national events in the areas of music, worship, and choral conducting.      The Fellowship of United Methodists in Music and Worship Artsexists to assist worship leaders in creating meaningful worship experiences that bring people into deeper relationships with God and each other. Founded in 1955 as the National Fellowship of Methodist Musicians, The Fellowship has grown to include worship artists, clergy, and laity involved in all aspects of worship from a variety of denominations and experiences.     ACLM
   Jim Rindelaubis a lifelong Lutheran with church music degrees from St. Olaf College and Westminster Choir College. He has served as the organist/music director at Saint Mark's Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jacksonville, FL, Grace Lutheran Church in Phillipsburg, NJ, Faith Evangelical Lutheran Church in Glen Ellyn, IL, First United Lutheran Church in Dallas, TX and currently Ascension Lutheran Church in Indian Harbour Beach, FL. He was the founding director of Jacksonville's Community Bach Vespers Chorus and Chamber Orchestra. Jim has served on the Association of Lutheran Church Musicians National Board as Region II president and was the organization's 2003 National Conference Chair held in San Diego. He has served in various offices for local American Guild of Organists and Choristers Guild Chapters. As a deacon in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Jim chaired synodical worship committees in Florida and Illinois. Jim served as the Choristers Guild executive director from 2004 - 2017.             The Association of Lutheran Church Musicians: Music is a vital expression of Lutheran worship. The church’s song takes many forms and is expressed in many ways. By sharing the knowledge, experience and passion that honor our heritage and inspire our future, ALCM nurtures and equips those who lead music in worship. ALCM offers practical education programs and diverse resources through conferences, publications and fellowship to serve musicians of all types – from paid professionals to volunteers. By connecting servant leaders to one another and by cultivating their musical gifts, ALCM supports worshipping communities in the proclamation of the gospel.
     PAM
   Kelly Abraham serves the Presbyterian Association of Musicians (PAM) from its headquarters in Louisville, Kentucky. Before joining PAM, she was the Director of Youth &amp; Families at First Presbyterian Church in Lexington, Kentucky. And a lifetime before that, she spent her days in fiscal administration at the University of Missouri-Columbia.  She is a graduate of University of Puget Sound (accounting &amp; business) and University of Missouri - Columbia (MBA).  She loves youth, music, collaborative worship planning, strong liturgy and the synergy that comes with working with people not like her. She is married to Kirk and the mother of two teenage girls.    The Presbyterian Association of Musiciansprovides resources, conferences, publications and a vast network of members who are engaged in worship, music, and the arts worldwide. Becoming a member of PAM gives you instant access to these valuable benefits which will improve your worship planning for any size church in any location with information addressing new and old issues facing all denominations.
 ​Choir directors, worship musicians, organists, Christian educators, artists, clergy, and lay people will find PAM to be a valuable resource for creative worship planning. PAM is not just for Presbyterians. Other denominations find our resources, conferences, and publications helpful in their service to God.
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>The Challenges of Leading a Nonprofit Association:</strong></h1> <ul> <li> <strong>David Bone, FUMMWA</strong> </li> <li> <strong>Jim Rindelaub, ALCM</strong> </li> <li> <strong>Kelly Abraham, PAM</strong> </li> </ul> <h1><strong>FUMMWA</strong></h1> <strong><a href="https://www.umfellowship.org/"></a></strong>  <p><strong>David L. Bone </strong>has served since 1991 as the Executive Director of The Fellowship of United Methodists in Music and Worship Arts. In this position, he manages the program and financial affairs of The Fellowship. David is also the co-author of “The United Methodist Music and Worship Planner” and “Prepare! A Weekly Worship Planbook.” David was on the worship planning teams for the 2012 and 2016 General Conferences of The UMC.</p>   David holds Master of Music degrees in Sacred Music and Choral Conducting from Southern Methodist University. David is a regular clinician at local and national events in the areas of music, worship, and choral conducting.      <strong><em>The Fellowship of United Methodists in Music and Worship Arts</em></strong>exists to assist worship <a></a>leaders in creating meaningful worship experiences that bring people into deeper relationships with God and each other. Founded in 1955 as the National Fellowship of Methodist Musicians, The Fellowship has grown to include worship artists, clergy, and laity involved in all aspects of worship from a variety of denominations and experiences.     <h1><strong>ACLM</strong></h1>   <strong><a href="https://alcm.org/"></a>Jim Rindelaub</strong>is a lifelong Lutheran with church music degrees from St. Olaf College and Westminster Choir College. He has served as the organist/music director at Saint Mark's Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jacksonville, FL, Grace Lutheran Church in Phillipsburg, NJ, Faith Evangelical Lutheran Church in Glen Ellyn, IL, First United Lutheran Church in Dallas, TX and currently Ascension Lutheran Church in Indian Harbour Beach, FL. He was the founding director of Jacksonville's Community Bach Vespers Chorus and Chamber Orchestra. Jim has served on the Association of Lutheran Church Musicians National Board as Region II president and was the organization's 2003 National Conference Chair held in San Diego. He has served in various offices for local American Guild of Organists and Choristers Guild Chapters. As a deacon in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Jim chaired synodical worship committees in Florida and Illinois. Jim served as the Choristers Guild executive director from 2004 - 2017.<a href="https://alcm.org/"></a><strong><br></strong>             <p><strong>The Association of Lutheran Church Musicians:</strong> Music is a vital expression of Lutheran worship. The church’s song takes many forms and is expressed in many ways. By sharing the knowledge,<br> experience and passion that honor our heritage and inspire our future, ALCM nurtures and equips those who lead music in worship. ALCM offers practical education programs and diverse resources through conferences, publications and fellowship to serve musicians of all types – from paid professionals to volunteers. By connecting servant leaders to one another and by cultivating their musical gifts, ALCM supports worshipping communities in the proclamation of the gospel.</p>     <h1><strong>PAM</strong></h1>   <strong><a href="https://www.presbymusic.org/"></a>Kelly Abraham </strong>serves the Presbyterian Association of Musicians (PAM) from its headquarters in Louisville, Kentucky. Before joining PAM, she was the Director of Youth &amp; Families at First Presbyterian Church in Lexington, Kentucky. And a lifetime before that, she spent her days in fiscal administration at the University of Missouri-Columbia.  She is a graduate of University of Puget Sound (accounting &amp; business) and University of Missouri - Columbia (MBA).  She loves youth, music, collaborative worship planning, strong liturgy and the synergy that comes with working with people not like her. She is married to Kirk and the mother of two teenage girls.    <p><strong>The Presbyterian Association of Musicians</strong>provides resources, conferences, publications and a vast network of members who are engaged in worship, music, and the arts worldwide. Becoming a <a href="https://www.presbymusic.org/"></a>member of PAM gives you instant access to these valuable benefits which will improve your worship planning for any size church in any location with information addressing new and old issues facing all denominations.</p> <p>​Choir directors, worship musicians, organists, Christian educators, artists, clergy, and lay people will find PAM to be a valuable resource for creative worship planning. PAM is not just for Presbyterians. Other denominations find our resources, conferences, and publications helpful in their service to God.</p> <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Getting the Most Value from Interns with Marc Propst</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/getting-the-most-value-from-interns-with-marc-propst</link>
      <description>How to Get Maximum Value with Intern Engagements
 Marc Propst is a Senior at the University of Lynchburg (Lynchburg, VA), graduating with a Bachelor’s in Political Science. In the short time frame that Marc has been a college student, he has had many different internship experiences with Non-Profits from different industries. Marc is currently the project management intern at the Lynchburg Regional Business Alliance, a 5-star accredited Chamber of Commerce &amp; Economic Development Center. Marc is also the Deputy Executive Director and Executive Council Member of the Non-Profit, Spectrum Arts Society. Marc is also a co-founder of the Office of Equity &amp; Inclusion at the University of Lynchburg. The Office is aimed at providing Diversity &amp; Inclusion efforts for the University. Creating this office helps to foster community and an inclusive environment allows for all members of the University, from students to alumni &amp; friends. A life goal that Marc has is to be President of the United States, to help even more people.
 College students are the future of the workforce, whether it will be in the For-Profit area or Non-Profit area. These students could be in charge of your organization. Help them to connect with others in the community, bring them to events, expose them to amazing opportunities that the world has to offer. You can help shape our future to become better leaders, thinkers, and advocates. Take the time to invest in the future because you were one of us too.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 24 Mar 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/79fb3824-b329-11eb-9f0f-4b77ca629f52/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>How to Empower Interns in Nonprofits</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>How to Get Maximum Value with Intern Engagements
 Marc Propst is a Senior at the University of Lynchburg (Lynchburg, VA), graduating with a Bachelor’s in Political Science. In the short time frame that Marc has been a college student, he has had many different internship experiences with Non-Profits from different industries. Marc is currently the project management intern at the Lynchburg Regional Business Alliance, a 5-star accredited Chamber of Commerce &amp; Economic Development Center. Marc is also the Deputy Executive Director and Executive Council Member of the Non-Profit, Spectrum Arts Society. Marc is also a co-founder of the Office of Equity &amp; Inclusion at the University of Lynchburg. The Office is aimed at providing Diversity &amp; Inclusion efforts for the University. Creating this office helps to foster community and an inclusive environment allows for all members of the University, from students to alumni &amp; friends. A life goal that Marc has is to be President of the United States, to help even more people.
 College students are the future of the workforce, whether it will be in the For-Profit area or Non-Profit area. These students could be in charge of your organization. Help them to connect with others in the community, bring them to events, expose them to amazing opportunities that the world has to offer. You can help shape our future to become better leaders, thinkers, and advocates. Take the time to invest in the future because you were one of us too.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>How to Get Maximum Value with Intern Engagements</strong></h1> <p><strong>Marc Propst</strong> is a Senior at the University of Lynchburg (Lynchburg, VA), graduating with a Bachelor’s in Political Science. In the short time frame that Marc has been a college student, he has had many different internship experiences with Non-Profits from different industries. Marc is currently the project management intern at the Lynchburg Regional Business Alliance, a 5-star accredited Chamber of Commerce &amp; Economic Development Center. Marc is also the Deputy Executive Director and Executive Council Member of the Non-Profit, Spectrum Arts Society. Marc is also a co-founder of the Office of Equity &amp; Inclusion at the University of Lynchburg. The Office is aimed at providing Diversity &amp; Inclusion efforts for the University. Creating this office helps to foster community and an inclusive environment allows for all members of the University, from students to alumni &amp; friends. A life goal that Marc has is to be President of the United States, to help even more people.<strong><br></strong></p> <p>College students are the future of the workforce, whether it will be in the For-Profit area or Non-Profit area. These students could be in charge of your organization. Help them to connect with others in the community, bring them to events, expose them to amazing opportunities that the world has to offer. You can help shape our future to become better leaders, thinkers, and advocates. Take the time to invest in the future because you were one of us too.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3582</itunes:duration>
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      <title>How Evaluation Helps Nonprofits Thrive with Dr. Annette Shtivelband</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-evaluation-helps-nonprofits-thrive-with-dr-annette-shtivelband</link>
      <description>Dr. Annette Shtivelband is Founder and Principal Consultant of Research Evaluation Consulting. For more than a decade, Dr. Shtivelband has worked with dozens of organizations as a researcher, evaluator, and consultant. She works with her clients to systematically, strategically, and thoroughly measure their impact. She excels in program evaluation, scale development and validation, training, and strategies that promote positive organizational change. 
 Evaluation is a powerful tool for nonprofit organizations. In fact, I believe that evaluation is the “secret sauce” that differentiates organizations that thrive versus those that only survive. Nonprofits that are able to utilize and leverage evaluation will have more successful and sustainable organizations.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 17 Mar 2019 04:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7a152356-b329-11eb-9f0f-e76e429926d0/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Using Evaluations to Measure Impact</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Dr. Annette Shtivelband is Founder and Principal Consultant of Research Evaluation Consulting. For more than a decade, Dr. Shtivelband has worked with dozens of organizations as a researcher, evaluator, and consultant. She works with her clients to systematically, strategically, and thoroughly measure their impact. She excels in program evaluation, scale development and validation, training, and strategies that promote positive organizational change. 
 Evaluation is a powerful tool for nonprofit organizations. In fact, I believe that evaluation is the “secret sauce” that differentiates organizations that thrive versus those that only survive. Nonprofits that are able to utilize and leverage evaluation will have more successful and sustainable organizations.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Dr. Annette Shtivelband</strong> is Founder and Principal Consultant of Research Evaluation Consulting. For more than a decade, Dr. Shtivelband has worked with dozens of organizations as a researcher, evaluator, and consultant. She works with her clients to systematically, strategically, and thoroughly measure their impact. She excels in program evaluation, scale development and validation, training, and strategies that promote positive organizational change. </p> <p>Evaluation is a powerful tool for nonprofit organizations. In fact, I believe that evaluation is the “secret sauce” that differentiates organizations that thrive versus those that only survive. Nonprofits that are able to utilize and leverage evaluation will have more successful and sustainable organizations.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Are Websites Dead?Pip Patton Shares Ways to Engage New Supporters</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/are-websites-deadpip-patten-shares-ways-to-engage-new-supporters-0</link>
      <description>Are Websites Dead? Pipp Patton Shares Ways to Engage New Supporters
 
 Pipp I Patton is the co-founder of Search Intelligence LLC a digital marketing agency based in Tampa Florida. They specialize in SEO, sales funnels, and Facebook marketing. Pipp in a former life was a yellow pages rep back when your yellow pages directory was the search engine of choice.
 Pipp is a recovering golf addict, loves to travel and enjoys finding new and interesting restaurants with his fiancé.
 Pipp says, "Nonprofits should be using all the current sales and marketing technology to build their brand and maximize their revenue production."
 More about Pipp HERE
 Email Pipp HERE
 Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to another episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s Hugh Ballou and my colleague, Russell David Dennis. How are you today, Russell?
 Russell Dennis: Greetings, everyone, and welcome. We are doing great in the Denver, Colorado area.
 Hugh: Russell, you and I have been doing this for a while. Overall, The Nonprofit Exchange started four years ago. We have hundreds of episodes from really good people. Our guest today was here once before talking about a different topic. We are talking about a related topic. I thought it was so important that we should invite him back and dig a little deeper into his intellect. Us old guys, we have earned the right to talk about more than one thing because we have been around the block a few times. Let’s welcome back Pipp Patton. He is from the central Florida area, in Orlando. Pipp, welcome.  
 Pipp Patton: Thank you. Appreciate it. I am in Tampa technically. That qualifies as central Florida.
 Hugh: I know where Tampa is; I used to live in St. Pete.
 Pipp: I know you did. A little on my background. I currently have a digital marketing agency, which I’ve had here in Tampa, co-founded with a partner about eight years ago. In a former life, I was a Yellow Pages rep. I sold them back when the Yellow Page directory was the search engine of choice. That has now changed. What was interesting about that was it gave me a lot of insight to a lot of types of businesses. Since then, my focus has been helping local businesses primarily market themselves, which is what I enjoy doing. I found the people who own local businesses are folks I enjoy working with and getting to know and helping succeed. It is rewarding for me and for them.
 When we spoke a while back, we talked about Google grants, which are available to the nonprofit sector. Google Ads availability, which Google will provide. We will visit that again at some point.
 Today, I think we are going to talk about the idea of websites are dead.
 Hugh: We are. That was our teaser headline. It’s about more than just one thing though. Where did you get this expertise from?
 Pipp: After being in Yellow Pages and working with local businesses for 14 years, I got out of that and really spent a couple of years taking care of my mom who needed some attention at that time. In the process, I was interested in technology. Google was starting to raise up and become well known. I remember having to wait early on to get a Gmail address because when they first started Gmail, you couldn’t just get one. You had to get on a waiting list because they were rolling them out slowly to make sure things would work. I remember waiting for that.
 I began to learn more about websites and marketing online and how that could help local businesses. As I talked to local businesses that I knew, they were confused about having a website or not. How am I going to market myself? Yellow Pages doesn’t have attention anymore. TV and radio have become fragmented. It’s all about in today’s world where are people’s attention. Where is their attention focused? Can I get my message in front of them? Today, people’s attentions are on their phones. This little device has changed the world. As powerful as this device is right now, within the next 10 years, it will become vastly more powerful and important, especially from a marketing standpoint.
 Hugh: You gave us a couple of topics. Are websites dead? But your overall thought was how do we create a sales funnel? We are talking about a nonprofit, Pipp. Why do we need a sales funnel for a nonprofit?
 Pipp: One thing in particular that it can be used for is in the fundraising arena. I have seen a lot of nonprofits and regular businesses that will spend money on advertising, Google Ads and other things. They will send traffic to the homepage of the website. But it doesn’t actually focus a visitor’s attention any one place. People get distracted very easily today. When you land on the home page of somebody’s website, there are 42 things you can click on: drop-down menus and social media links. In a lot of cases, people have wasted their advertising dollars just sending a visitor to the homepage of their website. If they are trying to get them to make a donation, if they are running a charity golf event for someone to sign up, if they want them to join a newsletter, if they want to announce an upcoming event, maybe it’s a holiday coming up. Maybe they are starting to promote some Easter activities. When you are going to direct people for a particular purpose, where they will land needs to speak solely to that purpose. Mostly it doesn’t. That’s why I say the website is dead. A website is really just a brochure as opposed to what we’d like to call a landing page where you can direct somebody’s attention for the purpose of getting them there.
 Hugh: You’re bringing them in from a noisy world, and you create more noise, so they don’t know where to go. I will give you an acronym that I learned from Tom Antheon, who teaches speakers how to build businesses: HITS is how idiots define success. You don’t care how idiots track success. It’s not how many hits you got; it’s how many conversions you have.
 Websites. I will agree with you. I see a lot of dead websites. I have heard this from clients I’ve had, who had a large team and produce big web experiences for state parks, for government, for universities. There wasn’t just a pretty thing up there. Tom had also talked about web designers being propellerheads. We create something that is pretty, but no engagement factor. You hit on a big one in that websites are in fact dead because we don’t know how to engage people with this experience. Let me throw that back in your arena. Any comments?
 Pipp: Absolutely. That is the case. That is what we are finding today. Let’s say a church has a large email list, and they want to do an email promotion for a particular purpose. They have to send that traffic to a particular place if they want to get the results they would like to have. A website itself is not going to make that happen. It needs a landing page. A landing page can be part of that website, or it will be a mini website, what I call a sales funnel. If you direct someone there, then you have the ability to extract the result you’re looking for. When they get there, they only have a couple options: follow through and do what you’re asking them to do, or click away and go somewhere else.
 As an example, outside in the regular for-profit sector, there are a lot of companies, large and small, who spend huge amounts of companies on ads online, Google in particular. All of them spending significant dollars, five figures a month or more, are sending that traffic to specific landing pages. If an attorney is advertising for an auto accident, he wants to send that traffic to a specific page that talks about that topic and gives some of his testimonials that speaks to his credibility. They have options. One is to call him or to send him a message asking for his consultation.
 In the e-commerce world, I have a funnel that I created for Christian Family Life recently. All it is designed to do is to get people who are interested in finding out more about their small group study for marriage ministry called Two Becoming One.
 I recently did a funnel for a jeweler. Jewelers are people who don’t take advantage of digital media at all. One of the benefits of that is they can choose to buy something, and in the order process, you have the ability to get them to buy something extra.
 The same can be applied to the nonprofit sector. If someone agrees to make a donation, then in the checkout process, there may be other things you can offer them that they would like to participate in that would generate more revenue for the nonprofit and doesn’t require any extra work of the person who is making the purchase or the donation. We have a mechanism called a one-click upsell. Let’s say you go to a page and say, “Yes, I want to buy this item.” You’re selling a T-shirt. You want to buy a T-shirt. You put in your credit card information and are ready to check out, and at the bottom of the page, it says, “By the way, would you also like a hat that matches? They are normally $25, but you can have one for $15.” All they have to do is check Yes, and boom, they don’t have to go back and put their credit card information in again. It’s a powerful thing. When people have already made the decision to spend some money or make a donation, in many cases, you can offer some other things that will entice them to spend more money or make further donations for a different purpose while they are in that mindset.
 Hugh: It requires knowing what you want. I think building out what Russ and I do is help people build out their strategy so they know all the things they want to accomplish. Someone like you can help them pull it off. We have this big gap between desire and implementation. Part of implementation is on your side. I am going to ask you another question and let the smart guy ask some.
 We’re talking today about websites being dead, but they don’t have to be dead. They are an active, organic engagement tool. We’re talking right now about the funding piece. We just say, “Oh, make a donation.” We don’t create the language or make it a simple process. As they are checking out, you can upsell them. The other option is, “Here are some committees. Here’s a place you can volunteer.” They are investing in the outcomes of the organization, but they can also invest with their time. Maybe there is a way to share this stuff with other people while they have the site open.
 I’m sure you have lots of tricks up your sleeve, but I heard you say at the beginning of this that when people get there, we drive traffic. That’s one factor. But what do people do when they get there? What is the most important thing you can say to people thinking about updating or beginning to build a web experience for a nonprofit or church or public service organization? What’s the advice you’d give them as they are starting up?
 Pipp: As they are starting up, I believe every business needs a website. Websites are dead for a certain purpose. Everyone should have one as a general information point. As far as a start-up nonprofit, yes, I believe they should have a website that when someone lands there, they can quickly understand what that nonprofit is about. What is their purpose? What is their mission? What are they trying to accomplish in the world?
 Russell: There is a lot to that. With the website being dead, one of the things that confuses people and leads to them being stuck is the availability of so many tools. You spoke to the landing page, which is for a special purpose. What are some of the other tools in addition to the website that are effective for nonprofits? Why do these work well together?
 Pipp: One thing right now is we are probably at a point where it’s easier to build a brand online than it ever has been before. With that, that involves making a commitment to social media. I had a meeting with a young lady yesterday who used to be a Tony Robbins coach, and she is launching a coaching business of her own. She needs to be doing a Facebook Live every day. Take that video, whatever that is. It could be 5-20 minutes. Download that video, and put it up on YouTube. Then go through that video, and find nuggets of wisdom. 60-second clips. Post those on Instagram. We will take that video and separate the video and audio. Put the audio on a podcast. If we go a step further, she can take the audio transcribed and create a blog post. Parts of the video can also be posted on LinkedIn. Now you have the ability to put out media on a daily basis to a whole bunch of channels. Why is that important?
 That’s important because, like I held up the phone before, it’s a battle, if you will, to get people’s attention. You don’t know where everybody’s attention is. Mine might be on Facebook. Yours might be on LinkedIn. Hugh might be on Instagram. Some people spend a lot of time on YouTube. Some folks like to read. Reading is still a thing that people do, I think, especially if they are over 40.
 Russell: Hugh happens to be surrounded by Yellow Page guys. I sold Yellow Page ads during college. Once again, he’s out on the fringes, but that’s ok.
 Hugh: My worst nightmare.
 Russell: There are so many things here that we can use. What we are all about here is strategy. With all of these tools available, and you just mentioned one way that someone can take one single piece of content and spread it across six platforms. Do you find confusion out there about how to use these platforms? What is the best way to approach a social media strategy? You want to have a brand. Don’t different people show up in these multiple places?
 Pipp: They do. You want to know who your audience is. Ideally, as you guys know, if you are building a strategy, you want to create an avatar. Who is that person you’re speaking to? You want to do the best you can with that. As far as social media strategy goes, I work mostly in the for-profit sector, I tell people to put out your best content. Put out your best stuff. Most people don’t want to do it themselves. They will find someone to do it for them. The more you give your best information, the more you establish yourself as the expert, and you become branded and create content that people want to share.
 What’s interesting about Facebook is when you start doing this, you may not have anybody watching your Facebook Live. But the more you do it, the first time you do it, you get one person. The next time, it’s two or three. As that number begins to grow slowly, Facebook realizes there are people staying on listening to this for 5-10 minutes. We will start showing it to more people. Facebook knows more about all of us than we would like anyway. They will share it with who they determine to be like-minded people with the folks who are watching. It takes time to do it, but it doesn’t take dollars to do that.
 One great thing about doing this social media strategy is if you are doing video content, you will find over time that more posts will get more engagement than others. If you find a post with a higher level of engagement, you can download that video and use it in a paid advertising strategy because you know the content has good engagement already, so it will do better if you put money behind it than if you were just starting to spend money on a campaign not really knowing if you had engaging ads or not. It can help you in that regard as well.
 Russell: It makes sense. That’s part of being effective: staying on track and tracking everything you do. We encourage people to do that. What would you say is the best approach to building a brand, given that there are so many options?
 Pipp: Just what I said. I would set up a Facebook page around their brand. I would be getting on there doing regular content, if not daily, 3-4 times a week. Doesn’t have to just be them themselves. It could be an interview like we are doing here. This is a podcast that is live-streamed to Facebook, but it could just be someone doing a 1:1 interview on Facebook with someone within their niche that they felt like their audience would be interested in what that person has to say. I would just start there.
 The other means of taking that content and putting it other places is it may initially be challenging for some folks. With a little bit of instruction, it’s not that tough to figure out. I know a couple people who would disagree with me, but overall, if you’re dedicated to building your brand and you know where you’re going, you’ll figure it out.
 Hugh: It’s ok for people to disagree with you because you’re not responsible for their low functioning.
 Just to play in to what you’re saying, to show it’s practical, we are streaming live on Facebook. We are recording on my computer, which I will edit and put the music and brand on it. I will relaunch the video on YouTube. We put it on LinkedIn and Facebook. In the next couple of days, it will have several hundred views. In a few days, it will launch on the audio podcast. We will take what you say, every word you say, and transcribe it. That goes into the podcast and the web page. By the way, the livestream of the Facebook is streaming on your page on the website. We have publicized that on our 250,000 contacts on social media. They can just watch you on our website. We are repurposing live right now. Before I go to sleep tonight, it will be on YouTube and all over. People will be ringing your phone wondering who is this guy?
 We provide value to people every week when we do these things. What I do find, Pipp, is when I show up in a group of leaders, people know who I am because I’m out there on the live stream. I’m out there on social media. People don’t always agree with what I say, but I subscribe to, “Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.” We stir things up a little bit.
 This is so helpful. If people don’t know how to do all these things, we will put into the window your website address and your email address. Pipp@SI-5.com
 Pipp: Search Intelligence. That’s my company.
 Hugh: I know Russ is anxious to dig deeper on some questions. I’m going to throw it back to Russell.
 Russell: This is all fascinating. People look at social media. There are so many platforms and choices out there. What would you say to a nonprofit leader who says, “We don’t need all of that. We only need one. We’ll just do Facebook.” What would you say to a nonprofit leader who says that?
 Pipp: I would say that’s a good start, but it depends on- My attitude is this. I’ll hold up the phone to him/her as well and say, “This is what holds most people’s attention today.” Everybody whose attention is here is not on Facebook. Some of them are watching YouTube videos. Some are on their Twitter feed. Some are on LinkedIn. Some listen to podcasts when they are driving around doing things. A few people go to websites and read stuff still. I would say, “Yes, you want to be on Facebook.” It’s important. and you want video on Facebook because video holds people’s attention. But you are handcuffing yourself if you are just sticking with one platform. If you will put the work to doing that one platform, it isn’t a whole lot more work to get that content on other platforms. Ideally, someone on their own could get this done in an hour a day once you get used to doing it and get a system going. Before that, it will take longer. It will be burdensome until you fine-tune it for yourself.
 Russell: Multiple platforms. For nonprofits, and I know you work with different businesses, are there some that are better than others, if they have limited bandwidth as far as the amount of time or people they have to sit and work this system and set it up? Is there an order of priority that works better for nonprofits?
 Pipp: Facebook and Instagram are huge, of course. I think for a lot of people, LinkedIn hasn’t really been utilized to the extent that it could be. But if you are going to do the Facebook content, it’s just not a lot of extra work to take some of that content, clips or still shots, and get them on Instagram. You can take that same video and post it on LinkedIn. On LInkedIn, you will put that on your personal profile, not the business profile. People don’t look at the business side.
 Russell: Some platforms are more visual like a Pinterest or Instagram. Those are visual. How important is it to play to all of the senses that people have in making your message stick and reach more people?
 Pipp: You want to mix it up. Part of the advice I give people is if you have your avatar, what is the age bracket? If you are dealing with 40 and under, you need to focus your attention more on Instagram. If it’s 35 and up, then maybe Facebook. There is a saying out there now that the millennials aren’t on Facebook. I don’t believe that’s true. I think they’re there as well, even though Instagram may have their primary focus. Pinterest, I don’t do much with it. I think for certain niches, specifically e-commerce, it can be good. I think it’s good for jewelers and the wedding industry. It’s visually oriented, even more than Instagram is visually oriented. You have to play with different ones and see which posts you do get the most engagement.
 The other thing you can do on Instagram in particular is search hashtags. If you know what your hashtags are, search those. Find out what the top performing posts are on that platform. Use those to help yourself model the posts you do. I have a young man I know who is proficient on Instagram. He is 21 years old. Normally, he is on there in T-shirts and jeans and flip-flops. He was looking at a competitor and saw he had done one dressed up in a suit and tie. The post got huge engagement. He went out and got a suit and tie and did a post. It did better than anything else he’d been doing. You can learn from what other people do. You can’t copy, but you can model that success to gain more success for yourself. Does that help answer that a little bit?
 Russell: It does. The hashtag gives people things to search through. The thing I’m seeing more and more of is video. Talk about the importance of video. I know for nonprofits, it’s about telling a story in an engaging way. Why is it really important for them to use video? Are there some things that would be more effective where video is concerned?
 Pipp: Video is important because it will hold people’s attention longer. The one most important thing is the sound needs to be really good. People, even if the visual part is good, if the sound is poor, people won’t stick around and listen.
 Another trick with Facebook: Most people who watch videos on Facebook on their mobile device do so with the sound off. 70%. It’s a good idea to make the effort to close caption the video so you can get your message across even when they don’t have the sound on. That’s an extra step, more work, but certainly can be well worth it.
 Videos need to be real. If they are too slickly produced, you will lose people. I know a story that I’m fond of telling is I have a friend who has an online business. She lives in the Northeast. She is a mom with four kids. She is busy. She had been trying to get this video post out for a week. It was always something going on. The dog was sick, or one of the kids was sick. Finally she had to get it done. She didn’t have time to do her hair or put on her makeup. She had her sick son sitting on her lap. She turned on her webcam and microphone. That post got more engagement than anything she’d ever done because it was real. People could relate to that.
 In any arena, you need to have content that people can relate to. A video is too slick, and everybody thinks they can’t do it or it’s too well produced. You can have some of that, but it’s nice to have the stuff that is real and you pull out your iPhone or mobile phone and shoot some video. That can be really engaging and very effective.
 Russell: It looks like that red carpet footage from Hugh from Sunday night will have to stay in the vault.
 All of this material that we put together and all of the ways we bring this information together is to tell a story that is relatable to people. Back to the whole topic of a sales funnel. We want people to become more and more engaged so you attract more at the top and bring them in. Talk about some of the things that nonprofits would use a funnel for. Some of it is to engage donors. What are other uses for a sales funnel? What messaging would go into that?
 Pipp: The messaging could be what they are trying to promote at the time, whether it’s raising funds or attracting volunteers or promoting an event. The best way to do a sales funnel is put one together that is a single one focused on that one topic. It’s all about the strategy. What are you trying to accomplish?
 The other thing that is important on these funnels is the social proof. Social proof is everything in today’s social media world. When you’re pulling out your video and are having an event, you want to get some comments from other people that are not necessarily a part of the organization, but they are fans of the organization or the people who come to the church or support the charity or volunteer for the charity or are recipients of the charity’s good works. All of that, as much as you can, needs to be captured. Pictures, video. That needs to be a part of that sales funnel so when you direct traffic there, the people can see this evidence that says, “I’m here for a particular reason.” You see an overwhelming amount of social proof saying, “These guys do some good work. Here’s the evidence.” It makes it easy for people to say yes and take the next step.
 Russell: That’s powerful. Have your friends recommend you. That is the best thing you can get out there. People who are talking about why they support that nonprofit. More people that your audience can relate to.
 Pipp: Absolutely. That is so important. As I mentioned, I am doing some work for CFL for a marriage ministry. Our whole focus of attention right now is gathering social proof for people who have been through this marriage ministry and the positive results they received. We are gathering that before making our next big marketing push. It’s weird to say marketing in the nonprofit context, but it is marketing.
 Russell: If nobody knows what good work you’re doing, they can’t support you.
 Pipp: That’s right.
 Hugh: We have an aversion to some principles. We have an aversion in nonprofits and churches (which are nonprofits) that we don’t want to sell. What is evangelism? We don’t want to market. What is evangelism? People don’t give. Have we told them what’s going on? Have we told them about the impact of our work? Interviewing people, and getting third party testimonials, is excellent.
 However, we have to give them a format to talk in. They will talk about fluff unless we say talk about what you needed, talk about the impact, and talk about the results you saw. Say a little bit about how when we do get people to talk about us and we post this-
 We started out talking about our websites, but we have talked about a web presence. Your website is your credibility piece. This is what we do; this is what we’re about. Your website is not just on the one platform. A church is not only behind the four walls. There are other pieces of marketing. Russell is spot-on. How do you connect with people?
 Pipp: I think one of the best ways to make sure that you’re not getting fluff is you have to ask questions, specific questions. If you’re gathering a video interview or if you are walking around an event with your mobile phone, ask people questions. Get their answers. Then you’re not just going to get, “This is great. I’m happy to be here.” “What have you seen today that made the biggest impact on you?” Or, “Have you thought about a friend who you really want to know about this?” Or, if you are talking to someone who has been the recipient of the good works of that organization, ask them, “How has this impacted your life? How has this helped you at home? How has this helped you with your children?” You get some specifics in there, and not just fluff, as you said.
 Hugh: It’s not that we’re programming them. We’re helping them focus on what’s important. I’m going to let Russ have another go at you. Russ, what else do you have on your heart that you want to ask him to talk about?
 Russell: One thing we talk about at the Colorado Speakers Academy is messaging, trying to find out what you want people to know, feel, and do as a result of the message. What would be the advice that you would give to nonprofit leaders specifically to hone in on accomplishing those three things? Are there certain best practices that serve a nonprofit more so than it would serve a commercial entity?
 Pipp: I think they are largely the same. Anybody who is leading a nonprofit is already in most cases someone who is comfortable speaking. They are having to get up in front of people and speak. It’s getting comfortable turning that webcam on and talking to a Facebook audience when you are not seeing a person right in front of you. Interviews can be helpful because then at least you have another person to speak to. Focusing on the message that you want. The other thing that is effective is telling stories. It’s important to get your message told in a story format because people love listening to stories. But they don’t like being lectured to. If you can get your message across in a compelling story, you will be more effective.
 Russell: That was one takeaway from my mastermind. We have a group here that meets. Somebody will share a challenge. We had one of our members looking at updating some of our material on social media. She had written something very carefully, and it was slick and polished. When the question was posed, why is she doing this, her authentic self came out. She talked for about 45 seconds. One of the members said, “Why didn’t you write that down?” It was smooth. She was just seamless. She was into it. It came out very well.
 Do you find that people feel like they have to polish stuff up because maybe they are uncomfortable being on camera? Even if they are the only person in that room, it’s like speaker anxiety where they are afraid to talk into a camera. How do you address that?
 Pipp: What I tell people is the same thing I tell myself because I am not comfortable doing it either. We have to do it. Whether it takes you 10 times or 20 times or 30 times, once you do it enough, you will find your voice, and you will get a good understanding of how you need to present that information and the kinds of stores you’re good at telling. With the Speakers Bureau, if they have never done speaking but always wanted to, they will be bad when they start. Practice gets you better. I used to play competitive golf. If you have ever played any golf, you know that the first time you pick up a club, the first thing you do is totally wrong. You learn those fundamentals, and then you practice. The nice thing about social media is that people are intimidated by and large. If they see somebody looking not so polished or stumbling over their words a bit, they’re okay with that. That’s real. Real can be compelling. You can draw an audience by being an authentic person. I could do that.
 Russell: I don’t think they will mistake Hugh and me for Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon. But I think we hold our own here. Get a message out to folks that resonates with them. That’s what we hope to do. Finding other people that are doing some of this type of stuff might be helpful. Do you recommend helping people get a support system? Talk to somebody who has done this before. How about some of the volunteers in the organization? Do you find that when you work with nonprofits, some of them have volunteers on board who are savvy with this stuff who can interface with someone like you to bring the image to life for a nonprofit?
 Pipp: In this arena, I can’t say I have worked with enough of them to have that experience. I am working real solidly more with one right now. They do have some volunteers who are helpful in this arena. It still largely falls to the head of the organization. Most nonprofits don’t have big staffs. There is not a lot of people. Even if there are volunteers, they don’t have enough time. It’s learning how to put it together into a system that you can create for yourself. Once you get it down, you can do a Facebook Live video and parse it out to the different platforms inside an hour, if you have done it before and know what you’re doing. It just takes some time to learn those steps, like everything.
 Hugh: Speaking of an hour, we can multiply ourselves if we can learn how to lead a whole team. Pipp has opened up a topic that is really important. We think we will just get some kid to put up a nice looking website. We haven’t developed an integrative program. Pipp, part of what we don’t do is define who we are and identify our brand value, our brand image, our brand promise. We need to identify who we are. What we have at SynerVision is a whole integrative process. You are doing things differently with web presence and social media presence and letting people integrate with us and engage people. It’s critical in the nonprofit space.
 *Sponsor message from SynerVision Leadership’s forum*
 What tip or thought or challenge do you want to leave people with, Pipp?
 Pipp: I would challenge everyone to get out there on social media and do a Facebook Live. Start there. Get comfortable with that. Then you can figure out a way to parse that material out. Take the video and put it on YouTube and Instagram and LinkedIn, etc. Hugh, if it’s okay, can I make an offer to your audience?
 Hugh: Yes.
 Pipp: I will offer to create a sales funnel for three nonprofits for no charge. The first three that contact me as a result of this interview. Contact me via email at Pipp@SI-5.com. I will put together a funnel for them for no charge.
 Hugh: I don’t think Russ and I can take the first two. That wouldn’t be fair. That’s generous. Thank you so much for being here. Russ will close us out today.
 Russell: Thank you very much, Pipp. It’s been very enlightening. As always, an hour flies by here.  
  
  
  
  
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      <pubDate>Sun, 03 Mar 2019 20:23:01 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7a38d166-b329-11eb-9f0f-0bfb65433ce9/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Why Every Nonprofit  and Business Should Have a Sales Funnel</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Are Websites Dead? Pipp Patton Shares Ways to Engage New Supporters
 
 Pipp I Patton is the co-founder of Search Intelligence LLC a digital marketing agency based in Tampa Florida. They specialize in SEO, sales funnels, and Facebook marketing. Pipp in a former life was a yellow pages rep back when your yellow pages directory was the search engine of choice.
 Pipp is a recovering golf addict, loves to travel and enjoys finding new and interesting restaurants with his fiancé.
 Pipp says, "Nonprofits should be using all the current sales and marketing technology to build their brand and maximize their revenue production."
 More about Pipp HERE
 Email Pipp HERE
 Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to another episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s Hugh Ballou and my colleague, Russell David Dennis. How are you today, Russell?
 Russell Dennis: Greetings, everyone, and welcome. We are doing great in the Denver, Colorado area.
 Hugh: Russell, you and I have been doing this for a while. Overall, The Nonprofit Exchange started four years ago. We have hundreds of episodes from really good people. Our guest today was here once before talking about a different topic. We are talking about a related topic. I thought it was so important that we should invite him back and dig a little deeper into his intellect. Us old guys, we have earned the right to talk about more than one thing because we have been around the block a few times. Let’s welcome back Pipp Patton. He is from the central Florida area, in Orlando. Pipp, welcome.  
 Pipp Patton: Thank you. Appreciate it. I am in Tampa technically. That qualifies as central Florida.
 Hugh: I know where Tampa is; I used to live in St. Pete.
 Pipp: I know you did. A little on my background. I currently have a digital marketing agency, which I’ve had here in Tampa, co-founded with a partner about eight years ago. In a former life, I was a Yellow Pages rep. I sold them back when the Yellow Page directory was the search engine of choice. That has now changed. What was interesting about that was it gave me a lot of insight to a lot of types of businesses. Since then, my focus has been helping local businesses primarily market themselves, which is what I enjoy doing. I found the people who own local businesses are folks I enjoy working with and getting to know and helping succeed. It is rewarding for me and for them.
 When we spoke a while back, we talked about Google grants, which are available to the nonprofit sector. Google Ads availability, which Google will provide. We will visit that again at some point.
 Today, I think we are going to talk about the idea of websites are dead.
 Hugh: We are. That was our teaser headline. It’s about more than just one thing though. Where did you get this expertise from?
 Pipp: After being in Yellow Pages and working with local businesses for 14 years, I got out of that and really spent a couple of years taking care of my mom who needed some attention at that time. In the process, I was interested in technology. Google was starting to raise up and become well known. I remember having to wait early on to get a Gmail address because when they first started Gmail, you couldn’t just get one. You had to get on a waiting list because they were rolling them out slowly to make sure things would work. I remember waiting for that.
 I began to learn more about websites and marketing online and how that could help local businesses. As I talked to local businesses that I knew, they were confused about having a website or not. How am I going to market myself? Yellow Pages doesn’t have attention anymore. TV and radio have become fragmented. It’s all about in today’s world where are people’s attention. Where is their attention focused? Can I get my message in front of them? Today, people’s attentions are on their phones. This little device has changed the world. As powerful as this device is right now, within the next 10 years, it will become vastly more powerful and important, especially from a marketing standpoint.
 Hugh: You gave us a couple of topics. Are websites dead? But your overall thought was how do we create a sales funnel? We are talking about a nonprofit, Pipp. Why do we need a sales funnel for a nonprofit?
 Pipp: One thing in particular that it can be used for is in the fundraising arena. I have seen a lot of nonprofits and regular businesses that will spend money on advertising, Google Ads and other things. They will send traffic to the homepage of the website. But it doesn’t actually focus a visitor’s attention any one place. People get distracted very easily today. When you land on the home page of somebody’s website, there are 42 things you can click on: drop-down menus and social media links. In a lot of cases, people have wasted their advertising dollars just sending a visitor to the homepage of their website. If they are trying to get them to make a donation, if they are running a charity golf event for someone to sign up, if they want them to join a newsletter, if they want to announce an upcoming event, maybe it’s a holiday coming up. Maybe they are starting to promote some Easter activities. When you are going to direct people for a particular purpose, where they will land needs to speak solely to that purpose. Mostly it doesn’t. That’s why I say the website is dead. A website is really just a brochure as opposed to what we’d like to call a landing page where you can direct somebody’s attention for the purpose of getting them there.
 Hugh: You’re bringing them in from a noisy world, and you create more noise, so they don’t know where to go. I will give you an acronym that I learned from Tom Antheon, who teaches speakers how to build businesses: HITS is how idiots define success. You don’t care how idiots track success. It’s not how many hits you got; it’s how many conversions you have.
 Websites. I will agree with you. I see a lot of dead websites. I have heard this from clients I’ve had, who had a large team and produce big web experiences for state parks, for government, for universities. There wasn’t just a pretty thing up there. Tom had also talked about web designers being propellerheads. We create something that is pretty, but no engagement factor. You hit on a big one in that websites are in fact dead because we don’t know how to engage people with this experience. Let me throw that back in your arena. Any comments?
 Pipp: Absolutely. That is the case. That is what we are finding today. Let’s say a church has a large email list, and they want to do an email promotion for a particular purpose. They have to send that traffic to a particular place if they want to get the results they would like to have. A website itself is not going to make that happen. It needs a landing page. A landing page can be part of that website, or it will be a mini website, what I call a sales funnel. If you direct someone there, then you have the ability to extract the result you’re looking for. When they get there, they only have a couple options: follow through and do what you’re asking them to do, or click away and go somewhere else.
 As an example, outside in the regular for-profit sector, there are a lot of companies, large and small, who spend huge amounts of companies on ads online, Google in particular. All of them spending significant dollars, five figures a month or more, are sending that traffic to specific landing pages. If an attorney is advertising for an auto accident, he wants to send that traffic to a specific page that talks about that topic and gives some of his testimonials that speaks to his credibility. They have options. One is to call him or to send him a message asking for his consultation.
 In the e-commerce world, I have a funnel that I created for Christian Family Life recently. All it is designed to do is to get people who are interested in finding out more about their small group study for marriage ministry called Two Becoming One.
 I recently did a funnel for a jeweler. Jewelers are people who don’t take advantage of digital media at all. One of the benefits of that is they can choose to buy something, and in the order process, you have the ability to get them to buy something extra.
 The same can be applied to the nonprofit sector. If someone agrees to make a donation, then in the checkout process, there may be other things you can offer them that they would like to participate in that would generate more revenue for the nonprofit and doesn’t require any extra work of the person who is making the purchase or the donation. We have a mechanism called a one-click upsell. Let’s say you go to a page and say, “Yes, I want to buy this item.” You’re selling a T-shirt. You want to buy a T-shirt. You put in your credit card information and are ready to check out, and at the bottom of the page, it says, “By the way, would you also like a hat that matches? They are normally $25, but you can have one for $15.” All they have to do is check Yes, and boom, they don’t have to go back and put their credit card information in again. It’s a powerful thing. When people have already made the decision to spend some money or make a donation, in many cases, you can offer some other things that will entice them to spend more money or make further donations for a different purpose while they are in that mindset.
 Hugh: It requires knowing what you want. I think building out what Russ and I do is help people build out their strategy so they know all the things they want to accomplish. Someone like you can help them pull it off. We have this big gap between desire and implementation. Part of implementation is on your side. I am going to ask you another question and let the smart guy ask some.
 We’re talking today about websites being dead, but they don’t have to be dead. They are an active, organic engagement tool. We’re talking right now about the funding piece. We just say, “Oh, make a donation.” We don’t create the language or make it a simple process. As they are checking out, you can upsell them. The other option is, “Here are some committees. Here’s a place you can volunteer.” They are investing in the outcomes of the organization, but they can also invest with their time. Maybe there is a way to share this stuff with other people while they have the site open.
 I’m sure you have lots of tricks up your sleeve, but I heard you say at the beginning of this that when people get there, we drive traffic. That’s one factor. But what do people do when they get there? What is the most important thing you can say to people thinking about updating or beginning to build a web experience for a nonprofit or church or public service organization? What’s the advice you’d give them as they are starting up?
 Pipp: As they are starting up, I believe every business needs a website. Websites are dead for a certain purpose. Everyone should have one as a general information point. As far as a start-up nonprofit, yes, I believe they should have a website that when someone lands there, they can quickly understand what that nonprofit is about. What is their purpose? What is their mission? What are they trying to accomplish in the world?
 Russell: There is a lot to that. With the website being dead, one of the things that confuses people and leads to them being stuck is the availability of so many tools. You spoke to the landing page, which is for a special purpose. What are some of the other tools in addition to the website that are effective for nonprofits? Why do these work well together?
 Pipp: One thing right now is we are probably at a point where it’s easier to build a brand online than it ever has been before. With that, that involves making a commitment to social media. I had a meeting with a young lady yesterday who used to be a Tony Robbins coach, and she is launching a coaching business of her own. She needs to be doing a Facebook Live every day. Take that video, whatever that is. It could be 5-20 minutes. Download that video, and put it up on YouTube. Then go through that video, and find nuggets of wisdom. 60-second clips. Post those on Instagram. We will take that video and separate the video and audio. Put the audio on a podcast. If we go a step further, she can take the audio transcribed and create a blog post. Parts of the video can also be posted on LinkedIn. Now you have the ability to put out media on a daily basis to a whole bunch of channels. Why is that important?
 That’s important because, like I held up the phone before, it’s a battle, if you will, to get people’s attention. You don’t know where everybody’s attention is. Mine might be on Facebook. Yours might be on LinkedIn. Hugh might be on Instagram. Some people spend a lot of time on YouTube. Some folks like to read. Reading is still a thing that people do, I think, especially if they are over 40.
 Russell: Hugh happens to be surrounded by Yellow Page guys. I sold Yellow Page ads during college. Once again, he’s out on the fringes, but that’s ok.
 Hugh: My worst nightmare.
 Russell: There are so many things here that we can use. What we are all about here is strategy. With all of these tools available, and you just mentioned one way that someone can take one single piece of content and spread it across six platforms. Do you find confusion out there about how to use these platforms? What is the best way to approach a social media strategy? You want to have a brand. Don’t different people show up in these multiple places?
 Pipp: They do. You want to know who your audience is. Ideally, as you guys know, if you are building a strategy, you want to create an avatar. Who is that person you’re speaking to? You want to do the best you can with that. As far as social media strategy goes, I work mostly in the for-profit sector, I tell people to put out your best content. Put out your best stuff. Most people don’t want to do it themselves. They will find someone to do it for them. The more you give your best information, the more you establish yourself as the expert, and you become branded and create content that people want to share.
 What’s interesting about Facebook is when you start doing this, you may not have anybody watching your Facebook Live. But the more you do it, the first time you do it, you get one person. The next time, it’s two or three. As that number begins to grow slowly, Facebook realizes there are people staying on listening to this for 5-10 minutes. We will start showing it to more people. Facebook knows more about all of us than we would like anyway. They will share it with who they determine to be like-minded people with the folks who are watching. It takes time to do it, but it doesn’t take dollars to do that.
 One great thing about doing this social media strategy is if you are doing video content, you will find over time that more posts will get more engagement than others. If you find a post with a higher level of engagement, you can download that video and use it in a paid advertising strategy because you know the content has good engagement already, so it will do better if you put money behind it than if you were just starting to spend money on a campaign not really knowing if you had engaging ads or not. It can help you in that regard as well.
 Russell: It makes sense. That’s part of being effective: staying on track and tracking everything you do. We encourage people to do that. What would you say is the best approach to building a brand, given that there are so many options?
 Pipp: Just what I said. I would set up a Facebook page around their brand. I would be getting on there doing regular content, if not daily, 3-4 times a week. Doesn’t have to just be them themselves. It could be an interview like we are doing here. This is a podcast that is live-streamed to Facebook, but it could just be someone doing a 1:1 interview on Facebook with someone within their niche that they felt like their audience would be interested in what that person has to say. I would just start there.
 The other means of taking that content and putting it other places is it may initially be challenging for some folks. With a little bit of instruction, it’s not that tough to figure out. I know a couple people who would disagree with me, but overall, if you’re dedicated to building your brand and you know where you’re going, you’ll figure it out.
 Hugh: It’s ok for people to disagree with you because you’re not responsible for their low functioning.
 Just to play in to what you’re saying, to show it’s practical, we are streaming live on Facebook. We are recording on my computer, which I will edit and put the music and brand on it. I will relaunch the video on YouTube. We put it on LinkedIn and Facebook. In the next couple of days, it will have several hundred views. In a few days, it will launch on the audio podcast. We will take what you say, every word you say, and transcribe it. That goes into the podcast and the web page. By the way, the livestream of the Facebook is streaming on your page on the website. We have publicized that on our 250,000 contacts on social media. They can just watch you on our website. We are repurposing live right now. Before I go to sleep tonight, it will be on YouTube and all over. People will be ringing your phone wondering who is this guy?
 We provide value to people every week when we do these things. What I do find, Pipp, is when I show up in a group of leaders, people know who I am because I’m out there on the live stream. I’m out there on social media. People don’t always agree with what I say, but I subscribe to, “Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.” We stir things up a little bit.
 This is so helpful. If people don’t know how to do all these things, we will put into the window your website address and your email address. Pipp@SI-5.com
 Pipp: Search Intelligence. That’s my company.
 Hugh: I know Russ is anxious to dig deeper on some questions. I’m going to throw it back to Russell.
 Russell: This is all fascinating. People look at social media. There are so many platforms and choices out there. What would you say to a nonprofit leader who says, “We don’t need all of that. We only need one. We’ll just do Facebook.” What would you say to a nonprofit leader who says that?
 Pipp: I would say that’s a good start, but it depends on- My attitude is this. I’ll hold up the phone to him/her as well and say, “This is what holds most people’s attention today.” Everybody whose attention is here is not on Facebook. Some of them are watching YouTube videos. Some are on their Twitter feed. Some are on LinkedIn. Some listen to podcasts when they are driving around doing things. A few people go to websites and read stuff still. I would say, “Yes, you want to be on Facebook.” It’s important. and you want video on Facebook because video holds people’s attention. But you are handcuffing yourself if you are just sticking with one platform. If you will put the work to doing that one platform, it isn’t a whole lot more work to get that content on other platforms. Ideally, someone on their own could get this done in an hour a day once you get used to doing it and get a system going. Before that, it will take longer. It will be burdensome until you fine-tune it for yourself.
 Russell: Multiple platforms. For nonprofits, and I know you work with different businesses, are there some that are better than others, if they have limited bandwidth as far as the amount of time or people they have to sit and work this system and set it up? Is there an order of priority that works better for nonprofits?
 Pipp: Facebook and Instagram are huge, of course. I think for a lot of people, LinkedIn hasn’t really been utilized to the extent that it could be. But if you are going to do the Facebook content, it’s just not a lot of extra work to take some of that content, clips or still shots, and get them on Instagram. You can take that same video and post it on LinkedIn. On LInkedIn, you will put that on your personal profile, not the business profile. People don’t look at the business side.
 Russell: Some platforms are more visual like a Pinterest or Instagram. Those are visual. How important is it to play to all of the senses that people have in making your message stick and reach more people?
 Pipp: You want to mix it up. Part of the advice I give people is if you have your avatar, what is the age bracket? If you are dealing with 40 and under, you need to focus your attention more on Instagram. If it’s 35 and up, then maybe Facebook. There is a saying out there now that the millennials aren’t on Facebook. I don’t believe that’s true. I think they’re there as well, even though Instagram may have their primary focus. Pinterest, I don’t do much with it. I think for certain niches, specifically e-commerce, it can be good. I think it’s good for jewelers and the wedding industry. It’s visually oriented, even more than Instagram is visually oriented. You have to play with different ones and see which posts you do get the most engagement.
 The other thing you can do on Instagram in particular is search hashtags. If you know what your hashtags are, search those. Find out what the top performing posts are on that platform. Use those to help yourself model the posts you do. I have a young man I know who is proficient on Instagram. He is 21 years old. Normally, he is on there in T-shirts and jeans and flip-flops. He was looking at a competitor and saw he had done one dressed up in a suit and tie. The post got huge engagement. He went out and got a suit and tie and did a post. It did better than anything else he’d been doing. You can learn from what other people do. You can’t copy, but you can model that success to gain more success for yourself. Does that help answer that a little bit?
 Russell: It does. The hashtag gives people things to search through. The thing I’m seeing more and more of is video. Talk about the importance of video. I know for nonprofits, it’s about telling a story in an engaging way. Why is it really important for them to use video? Are there some things that would be more effective where video is concerned?
 Pipp: Video is important because it will hold people’s attention longer. The one most important thing is the sound needs to be really good. People, even if the visual part is good, if the sound is poor, people won’t stick around and listen.
 Another trick with Facebook: Most people who watch videos on Facebook on their mobile device do so with the sound off. 70%. It’s a good idea to make the effort to close caption the video so you can get your message across even when they don’t have the sound on. That’s an extra step, more work, but certainly can be well worth it.
 Videos need to be real. If they are too slickly produced, you will lose people. I know a story that I’m fond of telling is I have a friend who has an online business. She lives in the Northeast. She is a mom with four kids. She is busy. She had been trying to get this video post out for a week. It was always something going on. The dog was sick, or one of the kids was sick. Finally she had to get it done. She didn’t have time to do her hair or put on her makeup. She had her sick son sitting on her lap. She turned on her webcam and microphone. That post got more engagement than anything she’d ever done because it was real. People could relate to that.
 In any arena, you need to have content that people can relate to. A video is too slick, and everybody thinks they can’t do it or it’s too well produced. You can have some of that, but it’s nice to have the stuff that is real and you pull out your iPhone or mobile phone and shoot some video. That can be really engaging and very effective.
 Russell: It looks like that red carpet footage from Hugh from Sunday night will have to stay in the vault.
 All of this material that we put together and all of the ways we bring this information together is to tell a story that is relatable to people. Back to the whole topic of a sales funnel. We want people to become more and more engaged so you attract more at the top and bring them in. Talk about some of the things that nonprofits would use a funnel for. Some of it is to engage donors. What are other uses for a sales funnel? What messaging would go into that?
 Pipp: The messaging could be what they are trying to promote at the time, whether it’s raising funds or attracting volunteers or promoting an event. The best way to do a sales funnel is put one together that is a single one focused on that one topic. It’s all about the strategy. What are you trying to accomplish?
 The other thing that is important on these funnels is the social proof. Social proof is everything in today’s social media world. When you’re pulling out your video and are having an event, you want to get some comments from other people that are not necessarily a part of the organization, but they are fans of the organization or the people who come to the church or support the charity or volunteer for the charity or are recipients of the charity’s good works. All of that, as much as you can, needs to be captured. Pictures, video. That needs to be a part of that sales funnel so when you direct traffic there, the people can see this evidence that says, “I’m here for a particular reason.” You see an overwhelming amount of social proof saying, “These guys do some good work. Here’s the evidence.” It makes it easy for people to say yes and take the next step.
 Russell: That’s powerful. Have your friends recommend you. That is the best thing you can get out there. People who are talking about why they support that nonprofit. More people that your audience can relate to.
 Pipp: Absolutely. That is so important. As I mentioned, I am doing some work for CFL for a marriage ministry. Our whole focus of attention right now is gathering social proof for people who have been through this marriage ministry and the positive results they received. We are gathering that before making our next big marketing push. It’s weird to say marketing in the nonprofit context, but it is marketing.
 Russell: If nobody knows what good work you’re doing, they can’t support you.
 Pipp: That’s right.
 Hugh: We have an aversion to some principles. We have an aversion in nonprofits and churches (which are nonprofits) that we don’t want to sell. What is evangelism? We don’t want to market. What is evangelism? People don’t give. Have we told them what’s going on? Have we told them about the impact of our work? Interviewing people, and getting third party testimonials, is excellent.
 However, we have to give them a format to talk in. They will talk about fluff unless we say talk about what you needed, talk about the impact, and talk about the results you saw. Say a little bit about how when we do get people to talk about us and we post this-
 We started out talking about our websites, but we have talked about a web presence. Your website is your credibility piece. This is what we do; this is what we’re about. Your website is not just on the one platform. A church is not only behind the four walls. There are other pieces of marketing. Russell is spot-on. How do you connect with people?
 Pipp: I think one of the best ways to make sure that you’re not getting fluff is you have to ask questions, specific questions. If you’re gathering a video interview or if you are walking around an event with your mobile phone, ask people questions. Get their answers. Then you’re not just going to get, “This is great. I’m happy to be here.” “What have you seen today that made the biggest impact on you?” Or, “Have you thought about a friend who you really want to know about this?” Or, if you are talking to someone who has been the recipient of the good works of that organization, ask them, “How has this impacted your life? How has this helped you at home? How has this helped you with your children?” You get some specifics in there, and not just fluff, as you said.
 Hugh: It’s not that we’re programming them. We’re helping them focus on what’s important. I’m going to let Russ have another go at you. Russ, what else do you have on your heart that you want to ask him to talk about?
 Russell: One thing we talk about at the Colorado Speakers Academy is messaging, trying to find out what you want people to know, feel, and do as a result of the message. What would be the advice that you would give to nonprofit leaders specifically to hone in on accomplishing those three things? Are there certain best practices that serve a nonprofit more so than it would serve a commercial entity?
 Pipp: I think they are largely the same. Anybody who is leading a nonprofit is already in most cases someone who is comfortable speaking. They are having to get up in front of people and speak. It’s getting comfortable turning that webcam on and talking to a Facebook audience when you are not seeing a person right in front of you. Interviews can be helpful because then at least you have another person to speak to. Focusing on the message that you want. The other thing that is effective is telling stories. It’s important to get your message told in a story format because people love listening to stories. But they don’t like being lectured to. If you can get your message across in a compelling story, you will be more effective.
 Russell: That was one takeaway from my mastermind. We have a group here that meets. Somebody will share a challenge. We had one of our members looking at updating some of our material on social media. She had written something very carefully, and it was slick and polished. When the question was posed, why is she doing this, her authentic self came out. She talked for about 45 seconds. One of the members said, “Why didn’t you write that down?” It was smooth. She was just seamless. She was into it. It came out very well.
 Do you find that people feel like they have to polish stuff up because maybe they are uncomfortable being on camera? Even if they are the only person in that room, it’s like speaker anxiety where they are afraid to talk into a camera. How do you address that?
 Pipp: What I tell people is the same thing I tell myself because I am not comfortable doing it either. We have to do it. Whether it takes you 10 times or 20 times or 30 times, once you do it enough, you will find your voice, and you will get a good understanding of how you need to present that information and the kinds of stores you’re good at telling. With the Speakers Bureau, if they have never done speaking but always wanted to, they will be bad when they start. Practice gets you better. I used to play competitive golf. If you have ever played any golf, you know that the first time you pick up a club, the first thing you do is totally wrong. You learn those fundamentals, and then you practice. The nice thing about social media is that people are intimidated by and large. If they see somebody looking not so polished or stumbling over their words a bit, they’re okay with that. That’s real. Real can be compelling. You can draw an audience by being an authentic person. I could do that.
 Russell: I don’t think they will mistake Hugh and me for Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon. But I think we hold our own here. Get a message out to folks that resonates with them. That’s what we hope to do. Finding other people that are doing some of this type of stuff might be helpful. Do you recommend helping people get a support system? Talk to somebody who has done this before. How about some of the volunteers in the organization? Do you find that when you work with nonprofits, some of them have volunteers on board who are savvy with this stuff who can interface with someone like you to bring the image to life for a nonprofit?
 Pipp: In this arena, I can’t say I have worked with enough of them to have that experience. I am working real solidly more with one right now. They do have some volunteers who are helpful in this arena. It still largely falls to the head of the organization. Most nonprofits don’t have big staffs. There is not a lot of people. Even if there are volunteers, they don’t have enough time. It’s learning how to put it together into a system that you can create for yourself. Once you get it down, you can do a Facebook Live video and parse it out to the different platforms inside an hour, if you have done it before and know what you’re doing. It just takes some time to learn those steps, like everything.
 Hugh: Speaking of an hour, we can multiply ourselves if we can learn how to lead a whole team. Pipp has opened up a topic that is really important. We think we will just get some kid to put up a nice looking website. We haven’t developed an integrative program. Pipp, part of what we don’t do is define who we are and identify our brand value, our brand image, our brand promise. We need to identify who we are. What we have at SynerVision is a whole integrative process. You are doing things differently with web presence and social media presence and letting people integrate with us and engage people. It’s critical in the nonprofit space.
 *Sponsor message from SynerVision Leadership’s forum*
 What tip or thought or challenge do you want to leave people with, Pipp?
 Pipp: I would challenge everyone to get out there on social media and do a Facebook Live. Start there. Get comfortable with that. Then you can figure out a way to parse that material out. Take the video and put it on YouTube and Instagram and LinkedIn, etc. Hugh, if it’s okay, can I make an offer to your audience?
 Hugh: Yes.
 Pipp: I will offer to create a sales funnel for three nonprofits for no charge. The first three that contact me as a result of this interview. Contact me via email at Pipp@SI-5.com. I will put together a funnel for them for no charge.
 Hugh: I don’t think Russ and I can take the first two. That wouldn’t be fair. That’s generous. Thank you so much for being here. Russ will close us out today.
 Russell: Thank you very much, Pipp. It’s been very enlightening. As always, an hour flies by here.  
  
  
  
  
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Are Websites Dead?<br> Pipp Patton Shares Ways to Engage New Supporters</strong></h1> <p><strong><a href="https://www.si-5.com/"></a></strong></p> <p><strong>Pipp I Patton </strong>is the co-founder of Search Intelligence LLC a digital marketing agency based in Tampa Florida. They specialize in SEO, sales funnels, and Facebook marketing. Pipp in a former life was a yellow pages rep back when your yellow pages directory was the search engine of choice.</p> <p>Pipp is a recovering golf addict, loves to travel and enjoys finding new and interesting restaurants with his fiancé.</p> <p>Pipp says, "Nonprofits should be using all the current sales and marketing technology to build their brand and maximize their revenue production."</p> <p>More about Pipp <a href="https://www.si-5.com/">HERE</a></p> <p>Email Pipp <a>HERE</a></p> <strong>Interview Transcript</strong> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to another episode of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> It’s Hugh Ballou and my colleague, Russell David Dennis. How are you today, Russell?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Greetings, everyone, and welcome. We are doing great in the Denver, Colorado area.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, you and I have been doing this for a while. Overall, <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em> started four years ago. We have hundreds of episodes from really good people. Our guest today was here once before talking about a different topic. We are talking about a related topic. I thought it was so important that we should invite him back and dig a little deeper into his intellect. Us old guys, we have earned the right to talk about more than one thing because we have been around the block a few times. Let’s welcome back Pipp Patton. He is from the central Florida area, in Orlando. Pipp, welcome. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Pipp Patton:</strong> Thank you. Appreciate it. I am in Tampa technically. That qualifies as central Florida.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I know where Tampa is; I used to live in St. Pete.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> I know you did. A little on my background. I currently have a digital marketing agency, which I’ve had here in Tampa, co-founded with a partner about eight years ago. In a former life, I was a Yellow Pages rep. I sold them back when the Yellow Page directory was the search engine of choice. That has now changed. What was interesting about that was it gave me a lot of insight to a lot of types of businesses. Since then, my focus has been helping local businesses primarily market themselves, which is what I enjoy doing. I found the people who own local businesses are folks I enjoy working with and getting to know and helping succeed. It is rewarding for me and for them.</p> <p>When we spoke a while back, we talked about Google grants, which are available to the nonprofit sector. Google Ads availability, which Google will provide. We will visit that again at some point.</p> <p>Today, I think we are going to talk about the idea of websites are dead.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are. That was our teaser headline. It’s about more than just one thing though. Where did you get this expertise from?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> After being in Yellow Pages and working with local businesses for 14 years, I got out of that and really spent a couple of years taking care of my mom who needed some attention at that time. In the process, I was interested in technology. Google was starting to raise up and become well known. I remember having to wait early on to get a Gmail address because when they first started Gmail, you couldn’t just get one. You had to get on a waiting list because they were rolling them out slowly to make sure things would work. I remember waiting for that.</p> <p>I began to learn more about websites and marketing online and how that could help local businesses. As I talked to local businesses that I knew, they were confused about having a website or not. How am I going to market myself? Yellow Pages doesn’t have attention anymore. TV and radio have become fragmented. It’s all about in today’s world where are people’s attention. Where is their attention focused? Can I get my message in front of them? Today, people’s attentions are on their phones. This little device has changed the world. As powerful as this device is right now, within the next 10 years, it will become vastly more powerful and important, especially from a marketing standpoint.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You gave us a couple of topics. Are websites dead? But your overall thought was how do we create a sales funnel? We are talking about a nonprofit, Pipp. Why do we need a sales funnel for a nonprofit?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> One thing in particular that it can be used for is in the fundraising arena. I have seen a lot of nonprofits and regular businesses that will spend money on advertising, Google Ads and other things. They will send traffic to the homepage of the website. But it doesn’t actually focus a visitor’s attention any one place. People get distracted very easily today. When you land on the home page of somebody’s website, there are 42 things you can click on: drop-down menus and social media links. In a lot of cases, people have wasted their advertising dollars just sending a visitor to the homepage of their website. If they are trying to get them to make a donation, if they are running a charity golf event for someone to sign up, if they want them to join a newsletter, if they want to announce an upcoming event, maybe it’s a holiday coming up. Maybe they are starting to promote some Easter activities. When you are going to direct people for a particular purpose, where they will land needs to speak solely to that purpose. Mostly it doesn’t. That’s why I say the website is dead. A website is really just a brochure as opposed to what we’d like to call a landing page where you can direct somebody’s attention for the purpose of getting them there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re bringing them in from a noisy world, and you create more noise, so they don’t know where to go. I will give you an acronym that I learned from Tom Antheon, who teaches speakers how to build businesses: HITS is how idiots define success. You don’t care how idiots track success. It’s not how many hits you got; it’s how many conversions you have.</p> <p>Websites. I will agree with you. I see a lot of dead websites. I have heard this from clients I’ve had, who had a large team and produce big web experiences for state parks, for government, for universities. There wasn’t just a pretty thing up there. Tom had also talked about web designers being propellerheads. We create something that is pretty, but no engagement factor. You hit on a big one in that websites are in fact dead because we don’t know how to engage people with this experience. Let me throw that back in your arena. Any comments?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Absolutely. That is the case. That is what we are finding today. Let’s say a church has a large email list, and they want to do an email promotion for a particular purpose. They have to send that traffic to a particular place if they want to get the results they would like to have. A website itself is not going to make that happen. It needs a landing page. A landing page can be part of that website, or it will be a mini website, what I call a sales funnel. If you direct someone there, then you have the ability to extract the result you’re looking for. When they get there, they only have a couple options: follow through and do what you’re asking them to do, or click away and go somewhere else.</p> <p>As an example, outside in the regular for-profit sector, there are a lot of companies, large and small, who spend huge amounts of companies on ads online, Google in particular. All of them spending significant dollars, five figures a month or more, are sending that traffic to specific landing pages. If an attorney is advertising for an auto accident, he wants to send that traffic to a specific page that talks about that topic and gives some of his testimonials that speaks to his credibility. They have options. One is to call him or to send him a message asking for his consultation.</p> <p>In the e-commerce world, I have a funnel that I created for Christian Family Life recently. All it is designed to do is to get people who are interested in finding out more about their small group study for marriage ministry called Two Becoming One.</p> <p>I recently did a funnel for a jeweler. Jewelers are people who don’t take advantage of digital media at all. One of the benefits of that is they can choose to buy something, and in the order process, you have the ability to get them to buy something extra.</p> <p>The same can be applied to the nonprofit sector. If someone agrees to make a donation, then in the checkout process, there may be other things you can offer them that they would like to participate in that would generate more revenue for the nonprofit and doesn’t require any extra work of the person who is making the purchase or the donation. We have a mechanism called a one-click upsell. Let’s say you go to a page and say, “Yes, I want to buy this item.” You’re selling a T-shirt. You want to buy a T-shirt. You put in your credit card information and are ready to check out, and at the bottom of the page, it says, “By the way, would you also like a hat that matches? They are normally $25, but you can have one for $15.” All they have to do is check Yes, and boom, they don’t have to go back and put their credit card information in again. It’s a powerful thing. When people have already made the decision to spend some money or make a donation, in many cases, you can offer some other things that will entice them to spend more money or make further donations for a different purpose while they are in that mindset.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It requires knowing what you want. I think building out what Russ and I do is help people build out their strategy so they know all the things they want to accomplish. Someone like you can help them pull it off. We have this big gap between desire and implementation. Part of implementation is on your side. I am going to ask you another question and let the smart guy ask some.</p> <p>We’re talking today about websites being dead, but they don’t have to be dead. They are an active, organic engagement tool. We’re talking right now about the funding piece. We just say, “Oh, make a donation.” We don’t create the language or make it a simple process. As they are checking out, you can upsell them. The other option is, “Here are some committees. Here’s a place you can volunteer.” They are investing in the outcomes of the organization, but they can also invest with their time. Maybe there is a way to share this stuff with other people while they have the site open.</p> <p>I’m sure you have lots of tricks up your sleeve, but I heard you say at the beginning of this that when people get there, we drive traffic. That’s one factor. But what do people do when they get there? What is the most important thing you can say to people thinking about updating or beginning to build a web experience for a nonprofit or church or public service organization? What’s the advice you’d give them as they are starting up?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> As they are starting up, I believe every business needs a website. Websites are dead for a certain purpose. Everyone should have one as a general information point. As far as a start-up nonprofit, yes, I believe they should have a website that when someone lands there, they can quickly understand what that nonprofit is about. What is their purpose? What is their mission? What are they trying to accomplish in the world?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There is a lot to that. With the website being dead, one of the things that confuses people and leads to them being stuck is the availability of so many tools. You spoke to the landing page, which is for a special purpose. What are some of the other tools in addition to the website that are effective for nonprofits? Why do these work well together?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> One thing right now is we are probably at a point where it’s easier to build a brand online than it ever has been before. With that, that involves making a commitment to social media. I had a meeting with a young lady yesterday who used to be a Tony Robbins coach, and she is launching a coaching business of her own. She needs to be doing a Facebook Live every day. Take that video, whatever that is. It could be 5-20 minutes. Download that video, and put it up on YouTube. Then go through that video, and find nuggets of wisdom. 60-second clips. Post those on Instagram. We will take that video and separate the video and audio. Put the audio on a podcast. If we go a step further, she can take the audio transcribed and create a blog post. Parts of the video can also be posted on LinkedIn. Now you have the ability to put out media on a daily basis to a whole bunch of channels. Why is that important?</p> <p>That’s important because, like I held up the phone before, it’s a battle, if you will, to get people’s attention. You don’t know where everybody’s attention is. Mine might be on Facebook. Yours might be on LinkedIn. Hugh might be on Instagram. Some people spend a lot of time on YouTube. Some folks like to read. Reading is still a thing that people do, I think, especially if they are over 40.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Hugh happens to be surrounded by Yellow Page guys. I sold Yellow Page ads during college. Once again, he’s out on the fringes, but that’s ok.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> My worst nightmare.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There are so many things here that we can use. What we are all about here is strategy. With all of these tools available, and you just mentioned one way that someone can take one single piece of content and spread it across six platforms. Do you find confusion out there about how to use these platforms? What is the best way to approach a social media strategy? You want to have a brand. Don’t different people show up in these multiple places?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> They do. You want to know who your audience is. Ideally, as you guys know, if you are building a strategy, you want to create an avatar. Who is that person you’re speaking to? You want to do the best you can with that. As far as social media strategy goes, I work mostly in the for-profit sector, I tell people to put out your best content. Put out your best stuff. Most people don’t want to do it themselves. They will find someone to do it for them. The more you give your best information, the more you establish yourself as the expert, and you become branded and create content that people want to share.</p> <p>What’s interesting about Facebook is when you start doing this, you may not have anybody watching your Facebook Live. But the more you do it, the first time you do it, you get one person. The next time, it’s two or three. As that number begins to grow slowly, Facebook realizes there are people staying on listening to this for 5-10 minutes. We will start showing it to more people. Facebook knows more about all of us than we would like anyway. They will share it with who they determine to be like-minded people with the folks who are watching. It takes time to do it, but it doesn’t take dollars to do that.</p> <p>One great thing about doing this social media strategy is if you are doing video content, you will find over time that more posts will get more engagement than others. If you find a post with a higher level of engagement, you can download that video and use it in a paid advertising strategy because you know the content has good engagement already, so it will do better if you put money behind it than if you were just starting to spend money on a campaign not really knowing if you had engaging ads or not. It can help you in that regard as well.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It makes sense. That’s part of being effective: staying on track and tracking everything you do. We encourage people to do that. What would you say is the best approach to building a brand, given that there are so many options?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Just what I said. I would set up a Facebook page around their brand. I would be getting on there doing regular content, if not daily, 3-4 times a week. Doesn’t have to just be them themselves. It could be an interview like we are doing here. This is a podcast that is live-streamed to Facebook, but it could just be someone doing a 1:1 interview on Facebook with someone within their niche that they felt like their audience would be interested in what that person has to say. I would just start there.</p> <p>The other means of taking that content and putting it other places is it may initially be challenging for some folks. With a little bit of instruction, it’s not that tough to figure out. I know a couple people who would disagree with me, but overall, if you’re dedicated to building your brand and you know where you’re going, you’ll figure it out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s ok for people to disagree with you because you’re not responsible for their low functioning.</p> <p>Just to play in to what you’re saying, to show it’s practical, we are streaming live on Facebook. We are recording on my computer, which I will edit and put the music and brand on it. I will relaunch the video on YouTube. We put it on LinkedIn and Facebook. In the next couple of days, it will have several hundred views. In a few days, it will launch on the audio podcast. We will take what you say, every word you say, and transcribe it. That goes into the podcast and the web page. By the way, the livestream of the Facebook is streaming on your page on the website. We have publicized that on our 250,000 contacts on social media. They can just watch you on our website. We are repurposing live right now. Before I go to sleep tonight, it will be on YouTube and all over. People will be ringing your phone wondering who is this guy?</p> <p>We provide value to people every week when we do these things. What I do find, Pipp, is when I show up in a group of leaders, people know who I am because I’m out there on the live stream. I’m out there on social media. People don’t always agree with what I say, but I subscribe to, “Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.” We stir things up a little bit.</p> <p>This is so helpful. If people don’t know how to do all these things, we will put into the window your website address and your email address. <a>Pipp@SI-5.com</a></p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Search Intelligence. That’s my company.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I know Russ is anxious to dig deeper on some questions. I’m going to throw it back to Russell.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is all fascinating. People look at social media. There are so many platforms and choices out there. What would you say to a nonprofit leader who says, “We don’t need all of that. We only need one. We’ll just do Facebook.” What would you say to a nonprofit leader who says that?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> I would say that’s a good start, but it depends on- My attitude is this. I’ll hold up the phone to him/her as well and say, “This is what holds most people’s attention today.” Everybody whose attention is here is not on Facebook. Some of them are watching YouTube videos. Some are on their Twitter feed. Some are on LinkedIn. Some listen to podcasts when they are driving around doing things. A few people go to websites and read stuff still. I would say, “Yes, you want to be on Facebook.” It’s important. and you want video on Facebook because video holds people’s attention. But you are handcuffing yourself if you are just sticking with one platform. If you will put the work to doing that one platform, it isn’t a whole lot more work to get that content on other platforms. Ideally, someone on their own could get this done in an hour a day once you get used to doing it and get a system going. Before that, it will take longer. It will be burdensome until you fine-tune it for yourself.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Multiple platforms. For nonprofits, and I know you work with different businesses, are there some that are better than others, if they have limited bandwidth as far as the amount of time or people they have to sit and work this system and set it up? Is there an order of priority that works better for nonprofits?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Facebook and Instagram are huge, of course. I think for a lot of people, LinkedIn hasn’t really been utilized to the extent that it could be. But if you are going to do the Facebook content, it’s just not a lot of extra work to take some of that content, clips or still shots, and get them on Instagram. You can take that same video and post it on LinkedIn. On LInkedIn, you will put that on your personal profile, not the business profile. People don’t look at the business side.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Some platforms are more visual like a Pinterest or Instagram. Those are visual. How important is it to play to all of the senses that people have in making your message stick and reach more people?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> You want to mix it up. Part of the advice I give people is if you have your avatar, what is the age bracket? If you are dealing with 40 and under, you need to focus your attention more on Instagram. If it’s 35 and up, then maybe Facebook. There is a saying out there now that the millennials aren’t on Facebook. I don’t believe that’s true. I think they’re there as well, even though Instagram may have their primary focus. Pinterest, I don’t do much with it. I think for certain niches, specifically e-commerce, it can be good. I think it’s good for jewelers and the wedding industry. It’s visually oriented, even more than Instagram is visually oriented. You have to play with different ones and see which posts you do get the most engagement.</p> <p>The other thing you can do on Instagram in particular is search hashtags. If you know what your hashtags are, search those. Find out what the top performing posts are on that platform. Use those to help yourself model the posts you do. I have a young man I know who is proficient on Instagram. He is 21 years old. Normally, he is on there in T-shirts and jeans and flip-flops. He was looking at a competitor and saw he had done one dressed up in a suit and tie. The post got huge engagement. He went out and got a suit and tie and did a post. It did better than anything else he’d been doing. You can learn from what other people do. You can’t copy, but you can model that success to gain more success for yourself. Does that help answer that a little bit?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It does. The hashtag gives people things to search through. The thing I’m seeing more and more of is video. Talk about the importance of video. I know for nonprofits, it’s about telling a story in an engaging way. Why is it really important for them to use video? Are there some things that would be more effective where video is concerned?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Video is important because it will hold people’s attention longer. The one most important thing is the sound needs to be really good. People, even if the visual part is good, if the sound is poor, people won’t stick around and listen.</p> <p>Another trick with Facebook: Most people who watch videos on Facebook on their mobile device do so with the sound off. 70%. It’s a good idea to make the effort to close caption the video so you can get your message across even when they don’t have the sound on. That’s an extra step, more work, but certainly can be well worth it.</p> <p>Videos need to be real. If they are too slickly produced, you will lose people. I know a story that I’m fond of telling is I have a friend who has an online business. She lives in the Northeast. She is a mom with four kids. She is busy. She had been trying to get this video post out for a week. It was always something going on. The dog was sick, or one of the kids was sick. Finally she had to get it done. She didn’t have time to do her hair or put on her makeup. She had her sick son sitting on her lap. She turned on her webcam and microphone. That post got more engagement than anything she’d ever done because it was real. People could relate to that.</p> <p>In any arena, you need to have content that people can relate to. A video is too slick, and everybody thinks they can’t do it or it’s too well produced. You can have some of that, but it’s nice to have the stuff that is real and you pull out your iPhone or mobile phone and shoot some video. That can be really engaging and very effective.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It looks like that red carpet footage from Hugh from Sunday night will have to stay in the vault.</p> <p>All of this material that we put together and all of the ways we bring this information together is to tell a story that is relatable to people. Back to the whole topic of a sales funnel. We want people to become more and more engaged so you attract more at the top and bring them in. Talk about some of the things that nonprofits would use a funnel for. Some of it is to engage donors. What are other uses for a sales funnel? What messaging would go into that?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> The messaging could be what they are trying to promote at the time, whether it’s raising funds or attracting volunteers or promoting an event. The best way to do a sales funnel is put one together that is a single one focused on that one topic. It’s all about the strategy. What are you trying to accomplish?</p> <p>The other thing that is important on these funnels is the social proof. Social proof is everything in today’s social media world. When you’re pulling out your video and are having an event, you want to get some comments from other people that are not necessarily a part of the organization, but they are fans of the organization or the people who come to the church or support the charity or volunteer for the charity or are recipients of the charity’s good works. All of that, as much as you can, needs to be captured. Pictures, video. That needs to be a part of that sales funnel so when you direct traffic there, the people can see this evidence that says, “I’m here for a particular reason.” You see an overwhelming amount of social proof saying, “These guys do some good work. Here’s the evidence.” It makes it easy for people to say yes and take the next step.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s powerful. Have your friends recommend you. That is the best thing you can get out there. People who are talking about why they support that nonprofit. More people that your audience can relate to.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Absolutely. That is so important. As I mentioned, I am doing some work for CFL for a marriage ministry. Our whole focus of attention right now is gathering social proof for people who have been through this marriage ministry and the positive results they received. We are gathering that before making our next big marketing push. It’s weird to say marketing in the nonprofit context, but it is marketing.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> If nobody knows what good work you’re doing, they can’t support you.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> That’s right.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have an aversion to some principles. We have an aversion in nonprofits and churches (which are nonprofits) that we don’t want to sell. What is evangelism? We don’t want to market. What is evangelism? People don’t give. Have we told them what’s going on? Have we told them about the impact of our work? Interviewing people, and getting third party testimonials, is excellent.</p> <p>However, we have to give them a format to talk in. They will talk about fluff unless we say talk about what you needed, talk about the impact, and talk about the results you saw. Say a little bit about how when we do get people to talk about us and we post this-</p> <p>We started out talking about our websites, but we have talked about a web presence. Your website is your credibility piece. This is what we do; this is what we’re about. Your website is not just on the one platform. A church is not only behind the four walls. There are other pieces of marketing. Russell is spot-on. How do you connect with people?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> I think one of the best ways to make sure that you’re not getting fluff is you have to ask questions, specific questions. If you’re gathering a video interview or if you are walking around an event with your mobile phone, ask people questions. Get their answers. Then you’re not just going to get, “This is great. I’m happy to be here.” “What have you seen today that made the biggest impact on you?” Or, “Have you thought about a friend who you really want to know about this?” Or, if you are talking to someone who has been the recipient of the good works of that organization, ask them, “How has this impacted your life? How has this helped you at home? How has this helped you with your children?” You get some specifics in there, and not just fluff, as you said.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s not that we’re programming them. We’re helping them focus on what’s important. I’m going to let Russ have another go at you. Russ, what else do you have on your heart that you want to ask him to talk about?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One thing we talk about at the Colorado Speakers Academy is messaging, trying to find out what you want people to know, feel, and do as a result of the message. What would be the advice that you would give to nonprofit leaders specifically to hone in on accomplishing those three things? Are there certain best practices that serve a nonprofit more so than it would serve a commercial entity?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> I think they are largely the same. Anybody who is leading a nonprofit is already in most cases someone who is comfortable speaking. They are having to get up in front of people and speak. It’s getting comfortable turning that webcam on and talking to a Facebook audience when you are not seeing a person right in front of you. Interviews can be helpful because then at least you have another person to speak to. Focusing on the message that you want. The other thing that is effective is telling stories. It’s important to get your message told in a story format because people love listening to stories. But they don’t like being lectured to. If you can get your message across in a compelling story, you will be more effective.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That was one takeaway from my mastermind. We have a group here that meets. Somebody will share a challenge. We had one of our members looking at updating some of our material on social media. She had written something very carefully, and it was slick and polished. When the question was posed, why is she doing this, her authentic self came out. She talked for about 45 seconds. One of the members said, “Why didn’t you write that down?” It was smooth. She was just seamless. She was into it. It came out very well.</p> <p>Do you find that people feel like they have to polish stuff up because maybe they are uncomfortable being on camera? Even if they are the only person in that room, it’s like speaker anxiety where they are afraid to talk into a camera. How do you address that?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> What I tell people is the same thing I tell myself because I am not comfortable doing it either. We have to do it. Whether it takes you 10 times or 20 times or 30 times, once you do it enough, you will find your voice, and you will get a good understanding of how you need to present that information and the kinds of stores you’re good at telling. With the Speakers Bureau, if they have never done speaking but always wanted to, they will be bad when they start. Practice gets you better. I used to play competitive golf. If you have ever played any golf, you know that the first time you pick up a club, the first thing you do is totally wrong. You learn those fundamentals, and then you practice. The nice thing about social media is that people are intimidated by and large. If they see somebody looking not so polished or stumbling over their words a bit, they’re okay with that. That’s real. Real can be compelling. You can draw an audience by being an authentic person. I could do that.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I don’t think they will mistake Hugh and me for Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon. But I think we hold our own here. Get a message out to folks that resonates with them. That’s what we hope to do. Finding other people that are doing some of this type of stuff might be helpful. Do you recommend helping people get a support system? Talk to somebody who has done this before. How about some of the volunteers in the organization? Do you find that when you work with nonprofits, some of them have volunteers on board who are savvy with this stuff who can interface with someone like you to bring the image to life for a nonprofit?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> In this arena, I can’t say I have worked with enough of them to have that experience. I am working real solidly more with one right now. They do have some volunteers who are helpful in this arena. It still largely falls to the head of the organization. Most nonprofits don’t have big staffs. There is not a lot of people. Even if there are volunteers, they don’t have enough time. It’s learning how to put it together into a system that you can create for yourself. Once you get it down, you can do a Facebook Live video and parse it out to the different platforms inside an hour, if you have done it before and know what you’re doing. It just takes some time to learn those steps, like everything.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Speaking of an hour, we can multiply ourselves if we can learn how to lead a whole team. Pipp has opened up a topic that is really important. We think we will just get some kid to put up a nice looking website. We haven’t developed an integrative program. Pipp, part of what we don’t do is define who we are and identify our brand value, our brand image, our brand promise. We need to identify who we are. What we have at SynerVision is a whole integrative process. You are doing things differently with web presence and social media presence and letting people integrate with us and engage people. It’s critical in the nonprofit space.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from SynerVision Leadership’s forum*</p> <p>What tip or thought or challenge do you want to leave people with, Pipp?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> I would challenge everyone to get out there on social media and do a Facebook Live. Start there. Get comfortable with that. Then you can figure out a way to parse that material out. Take the video and put it on YouTube and Instagram and LinkedIn, etc. Hugh, if it’s okay, can I make an offer to your audience?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> I will offer to create a sales funnel for three nonprofits for no charge. The first three that contact me as a result of this interview. Contact me via email at Pipp@SI-5.com. I will put together a funnel for them for no charge.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I don’t think Russ and I can take the first two. That wouldn’t be fair. That’s generous. Thank you so much for being here. Russ will close us out today.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thank you very much, Pipp. It’s been very enlightening. As always, an hour flies by here. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p> </p> <p> </p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>A Sustainable Not-For-Profit Financial Model with Steve Merager</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/a-sustainable-not-for-profit-financial-model-with-steve-merager</link>
      <description>Steve Meragerhas twenty-eight years in the financial services industry and now provides sophisticated services to small- and medium-sized businesses as a fractional CFO.
 Steve has managed the budget of a nine billion dollar bond project, was the lead financial manager of the pilot program for what is now the country's largest student loan program, regularly helps businesses with their pre-IPO requirements, finds profit opportunities for clients and helps organizations find solid ground for their work.
 Steve believes that true clarity for a business leader happens when a company's books tell the same story in numbers that the leadership tells in words. If there is a divergence between the two, all of the reporting that would otherwise provide guidance instead creates confusion.
 Greater profits and peace of mind are available and Merager Financial Solutions is the trusted resource to make that happen.
 For more information about Steve Here https://www.meragerfinancialsolutions.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2019 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7a55a48a-b329-11eb-9f0f-6fabc7bba72e/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>A Not-for-Profit Financial System</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Steve Meragerhas twenty-eight years in the financial services industry and now provides sophisticated services to small- and medium-sized businesses as a fractional CFO.
 Steve has managed the budget of a nine billion dollar bond project, was the lead financial manager of the pilot program for what is now the country's largest student loan program, regularly helps businesses with their pre-IPO requirements, finds profit opportunities for clients and helps organizations find solid ground for their work.
 Steve believes that true clarity for a business leader happens when a company's books tell the same story in numbers that the leadership tells in words. If there is a divergence between the two, all of the reporting that would otherwise provide guidance instead creates confusion.
 Greater profits and peace of mind are available and Merager Financial Solutions is the trusted resource to make that happen.
 For more information about Steve Here https://www.meragerfinancialsolutions.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Steve Merager</strong>has twenty-eight years in the financial services industry and now provides sophisticated services to small- and medium-sized businesses as a fractional CFO.</p> <p>Steve has managed the budget of a nine billion dollar bond project, was the lead financial manager of the pilot program for what is now the country's largest student loan program, regularly helps businesses with their pre-IPO requirements, finds profit opportunities for clients and helps organizations find solid ground for their work.</p> <p>Steve believes that true clarity for a business leader happens when a company's books tell the same story in numbers that the leadership tells in words. If there is a divergence between the two, all of the reporting that would otherwise provide guidance instead creates confusion.</p> <p>Greater profits and peace of mind are available and Merager Financial Solutions is the trusted resource to make that happen.</p> <p>For more information about Steve Here <a href="https://www.meragerfinancialsolutions.com/">https://www.meragerfinancialsolutions.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3532</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Growing Early Stage Organizations with Bud Michael</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/growing-early-stage-organizations-with-bud-michael</link>
      <description>Bud Michael has 40 years experience for industry leading hardware, software and services companies. He has held executive level sales and marketing positions with large, industry-leading product companies including Intel, Tandem Computer, Sequent Computers and KANA Software, and has successfully contributed marketing, sales and general business leadership to mid-sized software and services companies. Bud has been CEO at four privately funded technology and data services companies where he led the scaling of these businesses, selling two of these companies for substantial return to the shareholders. Bud is currently a management consultant with Renaissance Management Services, a consulting firm he founded in 2006.
 Bud is on the Board of Directors for Rockliffe, a leader in enterprise collaboration solutions for mid-tier companies, IRT Software, a leading provider of incident management software for public safety organizations and SunTechDrive, a provider of power electronics for the energy industry. Bud is an advisor to Innosphere a 501c3 nonprofit incubator formed to accelerate the development and success of high-impact scientific and technology Startup and Scaleup companies in Colorado. He is also an Independent Consultant for NAVIX, the leading services provider helping business owners achieve their goals for their business exit. Bud is author of “Favorite One-Liners for Business,” a business leadership book published in 2010.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2019 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7a8b0724-b329-11eb-9f0f-8fc59c0773c8/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Bud Michael has 40 years experience for industry leading hardware, software and services companies. He has held executive level sales and marketing positions with large, industry-leading product companies including Intel, Tandem Computer, Sequent...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Bud Michael has 40 years experience for industry leading hardware, software and services companies. He has held executive level sales and marketing positions with large, industry-leading product companies including Intel, Tandem Computer, Sequent Computers and KANA Software, and has successfully contributed marketing, sales and general business leadership to mid-sized software and services companies. Bud has been CEO at four privately funded technology and data services companies where he led the scaling of these businesses, selling two of these companies for substantial return to the shareholders. Bud is currently a management consultant with Renaissance Management Services, a consulting firm he founded in 2006.
 Bud is on the Board of Directors for Rockliffe, a leader in enterprise collaboration solutions for mid-tier companies, IRT Software, a leading provider of incident management software for public safety organizations and SunTechDrive, a provider of power electronics for the energy industry. Bud is an advisor to Innosphere a 501c3 nonprofit incubator formed to accelerate the development and success of high-impact scientific and technology Startup and Scaleup companies in Colorado. He is also an Independent Consultant for NAVIX, the leading services provider helping business owners achieve their goals for their business exit. Bud is author of “Favorite One-Liners for Business,” a business leadership book published in 2010.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Bud Michael </strong>has 40 years experience for industry leading hardware, software and services companies. He has held executive level sales and marketing positions with large, industry-leading product companies including Intel, Tandem Computer, Sequent Computers and KANA Software, and has successfully contributed marketing, sales and general business leadership to mid-sized software and services companies. Bud has been CEO at four privately funded technology and data services companies where he led the scaling of these businesses, selling two of these companies for substantial return to the shareholders. Bud is currently a management consultant with Renaissance Management Services, a consulting firm he founded in 2006.</p> <p>Bud is on the Board of Directors for Rockliffe, a leader in enterprise collaboration solutions for mid-tier companies, IRT Software, a leading provider of incident management software for public safety organizations and SunTechDrive, a provider of power electronics for the energy industry. Bud is an advisor to Innosphere a 501c3 nonprofit incubator formed to accelerate the development and success of high-impact scientific and technology Startup and Scaleup companies in Colorado. He is also an Independent Consultant for NAVIX, the leading services provider helping business owners achieve their goals for their business exit. Bud is author of “Favorite One-Liners for Business,” a business leadership book published in 2010.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2924</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Producing Successful Funding Events with Lauren Towers</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/producing-successful-funding-events-with-lauren-towers</link>
      <description>LAURIEN TOWERS began her diversified career of over 30 years as one of the producers of LIVE AID, immediately followed by several other live global telecasts. Laurien has produced and directed multi-cultural events internationally including with Eastern Bloc nations, concerts, animation, film, and theatre. Her expertise includes strategic planning, creative development, and production of special events, benefits, concerts, live global telecasts, animation, documentaries and film festivals.
 Ms. Towers has extensive experience in Special Events Production &amp; Management. She has worked internationally with government agencies, non-profit organizations, private companies, performers and media worldwide to create and establish joint business ventures and entertainment co-productions. Laurien has organized, produced, directed and managed the logistics, travel and promotional details for business conferences, benefits, concerts, live global telecasts,theatrical, film and video productions. Additionally, she has managed and represented international musical acts for charitable events and commercial concert venues in the U.S.
 Dedicated to promoting cross-cultural understanding and cooperation, Laurien has been involved with the development and production of positive, innovative projects that focus on children, humanitarian, and environmental issues. She has served as Executive Director for Medicine for Humanity, an international non-profit organization dedicated to improving women’s health worldwide, and consults with other non-profit organizations to develop creative projects and mutually beneficial alliances with local venues and businesses for fundraising events.
 Interview Transcript
 NPE Laurien Towers
 Hugh Ballou: Hey friends, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Russ, we got another good guest today, thanks to you. You reached out and talked to Laurien. Russ, how are you today?
 Russell Dennis: It’s a fine day here in Aurora, Colorado, right by Denver. We’ve got Laurien Towers. Brilliant lady who has done a lot of events. She is here to share her wisdom with us about how to run an event for your nonprofit. Some of the things that will enhance your success.
 Hugh: With that lead-in, Laurien, welcome.
 Laurien Towers: Thank you, Hugh and Russ. I am honored and privileged to be here with you. I love what you guys are doing. I’ve watched diligently the past few months. I’ve been an event producer for what feels like my whole life, over 30 years. I have worked on huge events, live global satellite shows. I began with Live Aid. I was in the former Soviet Union for a number of live telecasts and concerts. I did a film project with them. I have worked in the Caribbean. I don’t just do large events. I work with smaller nonprofits. I just came up to Washington to work with one and do an annual one. I have worked with churches and kids’ groups and Save the Whales. I am well-versed and love doing events for causes to help them raise money, awareness, and make a difference and expand the great work they all do.
 Hugh: Thank you. We have some specific questions we want to ask you. Before we get into that, I want you to give us some perspective. Why should people have events? Then what is an example of an event that went wrong?
 Laurien: How long do you have?
 Hugh: I want to get into the questions, so give us a summary.
 Laurien: I prefer to focus on the ones that work. In any case, why people do events. The first obvious one is they want to raise money for their cause, organization, church. How can we have a big party and have people come support us? That is not the only reason. Sometimes it is a new organization, or you moved to a new location, so you do it to invite the community into my home to see what I do and what I’m passionate about and hopefully inspire them to be excited about what you care about doing, as I am. A lot of it is about awareness and outreach, expanding your base, whether it’s just community relationships, and your support base, donors, long-term, to help you do what you love doing.
 Russell: What are some things people need to look at? I want to have a fundraising event. What are some things people need to look at before they make a decision to try to do an event?
 Laurien: For me, it always starts with a strategic plan. Where are you? Looking at reality, where you are right now, what resources do you have? I don’t mean just financial. Do you have a staff that is 100% dedicated to what they have to do every day? Do they have a huge workload so they can’t take on another thing? Or do you have volunteers? Do you have someone specific to do events? That is a key piece. When you get into the event, the event takes on a life of its own. I don’t care if it’s a bake sale or Live Aid. They are a living entity. You look at the resources you have, your team. Identify your strengths. What do you need? Is it easily accessible to you to do it? Sometimes people start off with wanting to do a huge event to make a difference. Then you look at it and go, “I can only do a bake sale.” Start with where you are. I believe in stepping stones.
 Russell: There are a lot of parts to unpack. Getting back to what Hugh asked, talk about some of the things you have seen happen where some of the key parts were missing. Events that went off the rails.
 Laurien: I think the first thing is you are not clearly defining your goals and not really identifying who is going to take on which role to make it happen. Getting ahead of yourself. Not following step by step. We are going to have this festival. Where are you now? Where are you going to have it? You have to consider weather, the location, all the things that can go wrong. If you are doing a live event, something will go awry. You will have to watch the football game on Sunday. You have to be prepared to do that. That is the key piece, the one I see over and over again, people jump in and don’t have a clue. They start promoting it before they have all the pieces in place. Then they have to backtrack. It’s taking time. A lot of it is you don’t have enough lead time either. Oh, we can do that next month. No, you really need a significant amount of lead time to prepare properly.
 Russell: Are there specific rules of thumb in general people want to look at from a time perspective as to how far ahead we need to look at this for an event?
 Laurien: My key always is to do a minimum lead time of 4-6 months. You’re asking for extra problems and challenges to show up if you do it any sooner than that.
 Also, it depends on your location. Weather is a factor. Both you and I and Hugh, last month, couldn’t do things outdoors. If you planned it, it was probably going to be postponed.
 Other events happening in your area. Pay attention. There are calendars everywhere. If you want to do an event, but there are 10 others happening in that period of time, they will take your audience who would come and support you.
 Russell:What types of things go into looking at who the audience is and who you want to bring in to your event?
 Laurien: It’s about what your focused on. I heard you the other day talking about the homeless community. People who care about the cause. That’s where you want to go. Who do you want to identify? Who would you like to get engaged with your organization, who is not already aware of it? Sponsors. Your legislators. The mayor. Congresspeople. Reach to the audience that you know. You want them to come help support you. But you want to broaden your community. The reason you’re doing an event is to broaden your outreach in all areas, including funding. The more people you have on board, the more people you have access to.
 Russell: Everything costs money. It requires some thinking about what sort of expenses you will have and revenues. There is the dreaded B-word. Budget.
 Laurien: Everyone loves to talk to me initially because I love to brainstorm and create. That’s the fun part. Then I say “budget.” They go, No, no, we don’t have a budget. Well, you have to have one, even if you get absolutely everything donated, which I successfully did last year for an event here. We were not out of pocket for everything we needed. Everything came through to support the funding goal. However, that is not always the case. So you do have to create a budget. If you’re going to need it for your event, it should have a cost line item, even if you know someone is going to get it for you.
 Russell: What are some of the line items you should include in your budget? I know there are an awful lot.
 Laurien: First would be where the event is being held. If it’s in your own living room, that’s not a cost. Usually there is a venue cost. There is sometimes staffing costs. There is food. Catering. If you want to have beverages, even if it’s a conference and you are going to serve coffee. My goodness. I am going through all the items off the top of my head. Your promotions. Your printing. How are you going to get the message out there? Social media is popular. There are a lot of people who will attend who don’t do that. Again, know your demographics. If it’s a youthful audience, social media is great. Email is great. But there are times where you want flyers and posters.
 Russell: Are there some common line items you see people miss repeatedly when putting a budget together? What are items people overlook?
 Laurien: I would say people most often overlook are the obvious ones. If you’re going to have a silent auction, you have to have pencils and pens and paper for people to sign up. They get left at the office. I have seen that happen over and over again. The other things you don’t take into account are decorations. You want to offer a giveaway, and you didn’t plan time to get pens with your name on it so you can give something away to the people that are attending as a thank-you. I have seen ridiculous things. You are having a bake sale, and there is no water or juice or coffee. You forget the silverware. You have the plates and napkins and decorations, but no plasticware. As many events and items as you can think of, people leave them off.
 Hugh: Laurien, people think about booking a room. It will be an evening event from 7-9. They don’t think about how long it will take to set up and clean up. It’s part of what an event planner says. How long will it take you to set up? What time do people arrive? It needs to be set up by 6. It will take you two hours, so you need to be there by 4. Then people have to break down. I didn’t have a tear-down crew. Some of those things cost money. You can book a room for two hours, but six hours is a different cost.
 Laurien: Correct. A two-hour event is half a day because that’s how long you need the venue.
 Hugh: Russ asked this earlier, and I wanted to probe into: If we are planning an event, SynerVision is planning an event in May. It’s February, so we’re good. March is one month. April is two months. May is three months. We have 90 days to put it together. How do you determine how much time you need to promote an event and pull the details together? Is there a magic formula? Or do you have a paradigm?
 Laurien: I touched on this before. 3 months is respectable. You probably already have an idea in your mind of what this is, and you have done it prior to starting as of today. You want to line up your speakers and get everybody in place ahead of time. You’re getting a sense of what you need to do. I missed the last part of your question because of my cat attacking me. Sorry.
 Hugh: What we’re doing as leaders, we think about the event. I’m trying to think about why we would want a person like you to help us. Part of what I’m thinking about is to challenge me on my budget assumptions, challenge me on my timeline the day of the event, challenge my timeline on lead time, and challenge me for thinking through my goals for the event. I might think it’s just to raise money. You might say, Hugh, but part of it is to let people know more about the results of what you’re doing and engage them. You need volunteers.
 Laurien: Exactly. Those are all the components. You’re right. Someone wants to raise money as their goal. No, you want more. You want people to get excited so you gain a support base. You do need volunteers. Unless you have a huge budget and can pay for everything, you need volunteers. You need to plan set-up and break-down time, those extra things that need to happen during the event. You want to let people know at the event why they are supporting you. What are the great things you’re doing? What are the wonderful things you plan to do with this money you raise? It’s a return on investment for the nonprofit, not just dollar signs for the investor. It’s about the impact that you have on the lives and the community or the cause that you are making a difference in a positive way for. You want people to go away feeling like, I understand why Hugh is so excited about his organization. It has a bigger vision I wasn’t aware of before.
 Hugh: Also, we’re putting together the articles for our next magazine. It’s all around brand. Brand is not your logo; that’s a picture. Brand is what you stand for. Every event you do represents your brand. I have attended a few local nonprofit events. Dinners that are also a pitch for money. Here is what we’re doing, here is what we’re doing next. Or a luncheon. One of them had trouble with technology. The videos didn’t play. The mic didn’t work for the presenter. The luncheon was an hour. I had to leave at an hour and a half, and the speaker wasn’t done. There were variables like that. What is the start time and the end time? Have you thought about production? What will each element take? Have you scheduled a rehearsal on-site to check technology? You have offered an event checklist of five bullet points. There are lots of things like that that I would assume a person like you would help us think about these little things, that when you add them up, they help you represent yourself as a better brand.
 Laurien: The checklist I gave is very brief. The first five key things you need to look at. There is so much more that goes into an event. If there is a concert, you have to have a sound check. If you are doing a performance, you have rehearsals. We had two rehearsals at the venue. We had to book it for that. We tested our video and audio. The piano, the musicians, all those pieces. Those are the things. The talent is going, I am going to sing. That’s great, but the behind the scenes is what makes it happen. The audience has to hear it, so it’s not a disaster, but a great experience. Yes, obviously someone needs to be there to say, “As a speaker, you were supposed to have 10 minutes, and you have just gone into 20. We are way over.” The guy with the hook. Get him off stage. Gently prod him and move it along because we have an audience we will lose, especially if it’s a business at a conference. These guys are busy, and we don’t have time to expand what you thought was going to be an hour meeting.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I wedged my way in here. Russ was on a roll here.
 Laurien: I appreciate it. This is good. Thank you for doing that.
 Hugh: This checklist is a good basic guide.
 Laurien: I’d be happy to talk to people. When people do email, as they go through my website, there is a way to indicate your question, and I will get back to you.
 Russell: We have a new community here where we do Q&amp;As. It’s a great place to join. You can ask your questions about anything nonprofit-related.
 One thing we talked about was volunteers. What are some of the things you find are attractive to people to entice them to volunteer? What are some of the motivations that you’ve seen with people who volunteered to staff different charity events?
 Laurien: Usually the volunteers are already supportive of your cause. They are passionate about it. Sometimes they are students, and they don’t have time or money to be involved in a bigger way, so it gives them the opportunity to be involved. Get to a concert, and they are helping to promote it so they don’t have to buy a ticket and still see it and participate. I believe in feeding them and supporting them and saying thank you. Be grateful to everybody, including sponsors. Show your appreciation. The volunteers I have always come away saying, “Wow, I think I got so much more out of it than I gave.” That makes it rewarding for them. Some of them have found out I want to go into this field because they had that experience.
 Russell: Who in the organization should take point on this? Some organizations are large and have access to a lot of people. Who should be your point person inside of a nonprofit to take on this challenge?
 Laurien: I think the person that is the most comfortable being well-organized and can see the big picture. You have to be able to see the big picture in order to backtrack to where you are and what steps need to be taken. I really recommend that one person is their main focus. Making this event. That is their priority. All the pieces, identifying one other support person that can help do the details and the follow-through. There are so many pieces. You want registration. Who will respond? What if someone needs a refund on a ticket? There are minute details, and you need to know and have team members who meet weekly or daily to say, “Okay, where is the checklist? Who is responsible for this? Did you do it?” I have been at events. We are in the office, and our pens were across town. We had to go across the street and buy a new set because we had silent auctions and people had nothing to write with. Minor details. Who is responsible? Whose job was that to be responsible for it? It’s important.
 Russell: What are some of the things the board can do to help support that person? If that’s their one job, and the event is big, that’s a big job. How can the board support that person and set the table to help that person succeed?
 Laurien: If you have a board, the board is supposed to be supporting the executive director to do the job and help you obtain sponsorships. They can help you find the volunteers. They can be the ones who help you take on a role and support what you need to handle. If you need catering and creators and presenters of more information about the organization, they will help. The board has to be engaged. You guys need to follow the integrity and overall vision of what your organization is about. If they are not on board, it’s like pushing a boulder up the mountain.
 Russell: That’s quite an analogy. We have a lot of mountains up here. It’s hard enough getting to the top of them without pushing anything.
 Laurien: A team effort is important. Board, volunteers, staff.
 Russell: What kind of special functions would certain staff members in a nonprofit take? Are there certain tasks for events that specific staff members in an organization would be suited to tackle?
 Laurien: I want someone who can handle a database. As you are getting inquiries, you want to capture those email addresses. Ticket sales. We used recently Brown Paper Tickets, which helped a lot. A lot of people didn’t go online to do that; they were at the door. Data is a big deal because you want to continue to build your database for events. Answering the phones. Taking registrations. Following up with your catering needs. Someone who will be responsible and capable of insurances in place. Liability insurance, you may need. Getting all the details the venue needs you to have. Talent, speakers, those kinds of things. Make sure their needs are met. I have done concerts, so you have to have a green room for your talent, and make sure the crew has their necessities. If you have audio/visual and tech people, you want them to help you with documenting your event, even if it’s just a photographer. That is another way for future promotion. Your website development. Who is handling your website?
 Russell: Lots of moving parts for sure. One of the keys to being successful as a nonprofit is for people to know about what it is that you’re doing. Are there some common pitfalls that nonprofits have when they are looking at marketing an event? What things should be included in marketing? That is a broad term.  
 Laurien: It’s a broad term. You want to get the information out about who, what, when, and how. Who are you? Why would people want to come to your event? Not just because of the event, but why they would want to support you. What makes you unique? I have a calendar of events in front of me; why should I go to yours? Get your information out. We touched on social media earlier. It’s a big deal now. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram are all important. Email is a personal touch. If you have contacts, call them, send them an email of specifics. Sometimes a private invitation to a pre-event or something to make it important to them is good.
 Not only what you have done, but also what your goals are. Why did you get inspired about getting involved with this cause? You want to have other people have that experience, to get ignited, to want to be involved with you and support what you’re doing. Also awareness. We have had kids go door to door to hand out flyers and posters and get them in storefronts. Sponsorship is another category, but you have a lot to offer sponsors to help you as well.
 Hugh: Can we explore that a bit? It’s convincing sponsors. That is not a donation. That is a marketing thing. Sponsors want to be in front of your audience. Do you help people think about the messages they need to communicate to sponsors, or why it’s good for their business brand to be associated with your nonprofit?
 Laurien: I do that all the time. In fact, on the last event I did, I was fully sponsored. All of our costs were covered by in-kind sponsorships. In-kind sponsorship is easier to obtain normally. Nonprofits actually get the cash donation. You should package a sponsorship package up front when you do your strategic planning. Look at what you have to offer. People think they don’t. Yes, you do. You have a venue. You have signage. You can put the banner up for the sponsor. You have an information table at your event that gives the sponsor ability to be in front of your audience to give their message. How are they tied in with you? Why are they supporting you? Let them have access to your audience to address them about why they are sponsoring you and why they care about you. There are a lot of things you can do. You have a website; give them presence there. Promote them. Let people know what they’re doing. There is a lot to offer a sponsor. Printer sponsors are my favorite because you need printers. If I can get a printing company to be excited about what we’re doing and get our information out there, I have someone to help me do my banners, program, flyers, and posters.
 Russell: All sorts of things could probably be sponsored. What are some of the common mistakes that you see nonprofits make when approaching sponsors? What are some common misconceptions that people have about what sponsorship is and what isn’t?
 Laurien: They go in not saying the things they can offer the sponsors, not doing enough research to see what it is that would entice the sponsor to be involved. What is the sponsor looking for? Think about that. Not what you’re asking them to offer you and pay for, but what you can do for them to expand what you’re doing. It’s like a reverse view of how to approach someone. I do that with who you’re inviting to the event. What are they going to gain from being out of your event? Whether it’s the purchaser of the ticket, attendee, or a sponsor, look at what you can be of service and what you can be offering to them, and not just what they can give to you. That’s a mistake.
 Russell: What are some good examples of the type of value that a nonprofit could put on the table to entice a sponsor to come in that meets what they’re looking for?
 Laurien: The value could be your demographic. Who are you inviting to your event? Is it 200 people or 1,000? Are they the audience that the sponsor wants to be in front of? Are they the ones who are going to help expand the sponsor’s business? They’re local clientele. The local supermarket may be able to provide you some of the items you need for your green room or your catering, and they want those constituents to see them and see that they’re there for them. Come to our establishment versus someone else’s. Banks also. If you have a bank, people don’t understand who they can go to. If you have an insurance company, do you have a bank? Doctors. Massage therapists. Anything you frequent is a potential sponsor if they can be excited about what you’re doing. If nothing else, if you’re going to have a silent auction, that is who you will go to. Get them to contribute an item to your silent auction, and they get promotion and are donating it. They are getting their product out, and you are getting some support that helps you with your fundraising.
 Russell: Every sponsor is going to have a different motivation based on their business. Are there some good rules of thumb in general that a nonprofit can use when approaching a potential sponsor? What would you say are some things they should consider before approaching a potential sponsor?
 Laurien: I have done that recently. I walk in and let them know what the organization is, what we’re doing, why it’s important. We would love your support in this way. Sometimes I think instead of you telling the sponsor what you want from them, it’s like getting in a conversation. How do they see themselves being able to support you and participate? Sometimes it’s writing a check. I didn’t expect it, but I got a check. I thought it was something else, but I got a check because that’s what they wanted to do. I was pleasantly surprised. Others were a part of the chamber of commerce there. We had an event a couple months ago. I put out a senior discount deal. I said something about the organization who buys a block of 10 tickets will get the senior discount. I had five sign up right away. I had the tickets sold, the sponsors, and put their names on a banner we were already printing. It was creative, and it was a pleasant surprise. It was fun. Everyone had a good time. I think those are the things. You approach them, they are excited. I found that people want to support, but sometimes they just don’t know how. If you give them options. I walked into one years ago and was asking for a silent auction item. They came back and donated toys for Santa to give away. I had no clue that was going to happen. They had them left over and needed to get rid of them. It was a blessing all the way around. Be open to being creative, and let those things come.
 Russell: It almost sounds like for some folks, making an ask can be a scary proposition. It almost sounds like, Hey, take a chance because you never know what sort of underlying motivation they may have. You may be pleasantly surprised at the result.
 Laurien: I have been quite frequently. When you have an event, a lot of people fail to do the ask. You need to have someone. If you are not the one comfortable to do the ask, find someone who is, and give them executive power.
 Russell: Is there any one specific person that businesses and potential sponsors are more responsive to when that ask is given? A certain staff member or board member that they respond to more than others.
 Laurien: I think it comes down to personality about the person who is asking and how passionate they are about the cause and how much they believe in it. If they have been touched personally themselves and have a personal story about the organization, the personal stories or testimonials are the ones that trigger the greatest response in people giving. I was the director for Medicine for Humanity for years. The difference that people’s lives were changed. We had one of them who came from Uganda to speak about how their life was touched by this organization. That absolutely caused no dry eyes. Those are the stories. Maybe they physically don’t do the ask, but they are telling their story, and someone says, “This is how we make a difference. This is how we need your help to do so.”
 Russell: As a percentage of the time that you spend presenting your program or organization, is there a good mix of people who have benefited from the work you do? How much time is devoted to them? Where do you put them in your program, if you’re running one?
 Laurien: I’m not quite clear about this question.
 Russell: As you have an event, you have a program, usually the way you make presentations on some of the work you’re doing. The people you’re serving, how much time do you allocate in that program to have people give a testimonial in front of the audience?
 Laurien: It depends on your program. You don’t want to take too much talking head time. You want it to be effective. Depending on the length of time, I know Hugh knows this, get the people who are the key people who will be the most powerful. Take that time. Intersperse them if you want to have more than one so they are not back to back. I would not do more than 10-15% of your time to devote to that. You want to have a good time. Even if it’s a conference, get the information, what did they come there for? This is the added piece. You spice it up.
 Russell: I imagine with limited time, if you are putting a program together, is there a specific time in a typical program that would be the best part of the program for placement of these people to talk about the impact of the organization in their lives?
 Laurien: Probably halfway through. I would do the entertainment. Get them excited. If you have entertainment. If you have video presentations about your organization. Follow it with someone who can speak to what you just showed. Entertainment is wonderful. Singers, performers, dancers. Right after that, they have had the fun, maybe a silent auction, they had a break. Then come back and remember why we’re here. You want a flow. You want it to reach a peak and continue, not completely go down until the finale, where you get people together. End it with something entertaining and fun. That’s how I try to do it.
 Russell: I imagine that’s tough to do especially if you don’t have any experience doing that. That would require an expert who has a lot of cycles through that type of thing.
 Laurien: It is entertainment. No matter what it is, you need to capture the audience in some way. Whether they are there for a serious business conference or a luncheon or a cocktail party or just coffee, it’s community. It’s not a party, but it is. It’s embracing people to come together as a community to get them excited. If one person sees someone getting excited, that’s infectious.
 Russell: You mentioned videos. There are a lot of different things that can be done to mark an event and an organization. Is there an ideal mix as to what type of marketing materials that you produce?
 Laurien: It depends on the organization and your message. If you do have a quality video presentation, put it on your website. Offer it elsewhere. Do it on Facebook. Your LinkedIn. Places where people know what you’re doing. If there is local TV advertising and you have a budget for that, or a radio spot, get it out there to the broader audience. It does depend on the level and the quality. I hesitate because I have been a producer in TV. If it’s not a good quality, I would hesitate to put it out there. That’s just me. I would encourage someone to get quality documentation of your event. Video or great photographers so that you give your best presentation.
 Hugh: That is one thing that people need you for. They don’t think about those things after it’s over. I owned a photo business at one time. After it’s over, I’m as guilty as anybody, people ask me, “Did you take pictures?” I went, “Duh, no.” I am so busy doing what I do. We want to be Superman. I want to present. I want to run the event. I want to get all the people there. I want to manage the whole event. Really, I just need to be present and present when people do the recording. You can use those recordings and fundraising to promote other events. One important thing I see is when people come together, and you develop this new sense of community. It’s what I call a new architecture of engagement, as people come together and are doing something together.
 On your event checklist, there are five items. #1 is define the goals. What do you want to accomplish here? That is so important. Why do the event? Oftentimes, I see organizations do an event with a lot of volunteers and board members, and they only bring in a dribble of money. That may not be your only goal. There might be a series of events that leads to larger funding. So one is define your goals/objectives.
 #2 is identify your team. It’s important to have people tasked with specific things. Not just assume they will do it.
 #3 is create an event proposal. Everything you will do, put it there.
 #4 is create an event budget. That’s the B word. Where is the money coming from? Maybe people say, “We can’t afford that.” Don’t stop there. Think about who you know that could help you fund it. You don’t need to take it out of your regular funding; you could have special funding. You’re right. It’s in your strategy, your overall plan. You want to put this in there with enough money to do your job.
 #5 is set a date and book the venue. You don’t want to have it all line up and find out you can’t get the venue.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 Back to you, Laurien. What do you want to leave people with today?
 Laurien: I heard you say something earlier when people say, “I can’t afford that.” Think outside the box. Have fun with it. Be creative. We go back to the strategic plan. What do you want to do? Why do you want to do this event? If you can’t do it, then what can you do right now to propel what you’re ultimately wanting to do? Find the people. If you don’t have it, you have boards and staff. Say, “This is what I’d like to do.” Even your friends. You have no clue who whom you know will know. That space might be available. Don’t give up. Don’t be discouraged. Everyone can make a difference. You can get the word out about what you’re doing and increase your outreach and awareness, which will ultimately increase your donor base.
 Russell: Thank you. Lots to think about. Lots to unpack. Grab a copy of that checklist. Get in touch with Laurien for a deeper dive. There is always more than meets the eye to these kinds of things.
  
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      <pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2019 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7aacfb86-b329-11eb-9f0f-b7e41412f15f/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>How to Build and Conduct the Best Events Loyal to Your Brand</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>LAURIEN TOWERS began her diversified career of over 30 years as one of the producers of LIVE AID, immediately followed by several other live global telecasts. Laurien has produced and directed multi-cultural events internationally including with Eastern Bloc nations, concerts, animation, film, and theatre. Her expertise includes strategic planning, creative development, and production of special events, benefits, concerts, live global telecasts, animation, documentaries and film festivals.
 Ms. Towers has extensive experience in Special Events Production &amp; Management. She has worked internationally with government agencies, non-profit organizations, private companies, performers and media worldwide to create and establish joint business ventures and entertainment co-productions. Laurien has organized, produced, directed and managed the logistics, travel and promotional details for business conferences, benefits, concerts, live global telecasts,theatrical, film and video productions. Additionally, she has managed and represented international musical acts for charitable events and commercial concert venues in the U.S.
 Dedicated to promoting cross-cultural understanding and cooperation, Laurien has been involved with the development and production of positive, innovative projects that focus on children, humanitarian, and environmental issues. She has served as Executive Director for Medicine for Humanity, an international non-profit organization dedicated to improving women’s health worldwide, and consults with other non-profit organizations to develop creative projects and mutually beneficial alliances with local venues and businesses for fundraising events.
 Interview Transcript
 NPE Laurien Towers
 Hugh Ballou: Hey friends, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Russ, we got another good guest today, thanks to you. You reached out and talked to Laurien. Russ, how are you today?
 Russell Dennis: It’s a fine day here in Aurora, Colorado, right by Denver. We’ve got Laurien Towers. Brilliant lady who has done a lot of events. She is here to share her wisdom with us about how to run an event for your nonprofit. Some of the things that will enhance your success.
 Hugh: With that lead-in, Laurien, welcome.
 Laurien Towers: Thank you, Hugh and Russ. I am honored and privileged to be here with you. I love what you guys are doing. I’ve watched diligently the past few months. I’ve been an event producer for what feels like my whole life, over 30 years. I have worked on huge events, live global satellite shows. I began with Live Aid. I was in the former Soviet Union for a number of live telecasts and concerts. I did a film project with them. I have worked in the Caribbean. I don’t just do large events. I work with smaller nonprofits. I just came up to Washington to work with one and do an annual one. I have worked with churches and kids’ groups and Save the Whales. I am well-versed and love doing events for causes to help them raise money, awareness, and make a difference and expand the great work they all do.
 Hugh: Thank you. We have some specific questions we want to ask you. Before we get into that, I want you to give us some perspective. Why should people have events? Then what is an example of an event that went wrong?
 Laurien: How long do you have?
 Hugh: I want to get into the questions, so give us a summary.
 Laurien: I prefer to focus on the ones that work. In any case, why people do events. The first obvious one is they want to raise money for their cause, organization, church. How can we have a big party and have people come support us? That is not the only reason. Sometimes it is a new organization, or you moved to a new location, so you do it to invite the community into my home to see what I do and what I’m passionate about and hopefully inspire them to be excited about what you care about doing, as I am. A lot of it is about awareness and outreach, expanding your base, whether it’s just community relationships, and your support base, donors, long-term, to help you do what you love doing.
 Russell: What are some things people need to look at? I want to have a fundraising event. What are some things people need to look at before they make a decision to try to do an event?
 Laurien: For me, it always starts with a strategic plan. Where are you? Looking at reality, where you are right now, what resources do you have? I don’t mean just financial. Do you have a staff that is 100% dedicated to what they have to do every day? Do they have a huge workload so they can’t take on another thing? Or do you have volunteers? Do you have someone specific to do events? That is a key piece. When you get into the event, the event takes on a life of its own. I don’t care if it’s a bake sale or Live Aid. They are a living entity. You look at the resources you have, your team. Identify your strengths. What do you need? Is it easily accessible to you to do it? Sometimes people start off with wanting to do a huge event to make a difference. Then you look at it and go, “I can only do a bake sale.” Start with where you are. I believe in stepping stones.
 Russell: There are a lot of parts to unpack. Getting back to what Hugh asked, talk about some of the things you have seen happen where some of the key parts were missing. Events that went off the rails.
 Laurien: I think the first thing is you are not clearly defining your goals and not really identifying who is going to take on which role to make it happen. Getting ahead of yourself. Not following step by step. We are going to have this festival. Where are you now? Where are you going to have it? You have to consider weather, the location, all the things that can go wrong. If you are doing a live event, something will go awry. You will have to watch the football game on Sunday. You have to be prepared to do that. That is the key piece, the one I see over and over again, people jump in and don’t have a clue. They start promoting it before they have all the pieces in place. Then they have to backtrack. It’s taking time. A lot of it is you don’t have enough lead time either. Oh, we can do that next month. No, you really need a significant amount of lead time to prepare properly.
 Russell: Are there specific rules of thumb in general people want to look at from a time perspective as to how far ahead we need to look at this for an event?
 Laurien: My key always is to do a minimum lead time of 4-6 months. You’re asking for extra problems and challenges to show up if you do it any sooner than that.
 Also, it depends on your location. Weather is a factor. Both you and I and Hugh, last month, couldn’t do things outdoors. If you planned it, it was probably going to be postponed.
 Other events happening in your area. Pay attention. There are calendars everywhere. If you want to do an event, but there are 10 others happening in that period of time, they will take your audience who would come and support you.
 Russell:What types of things go into looking at who the audience is and who you want to bring in to your event?
 Laurien: It’s about what your focused on. I heard you the other day talking about the homeless community. People who care about the cause. That’s where you want to go. Who do you want to identify? Who would you like to get engaged with your organization, who is not already aware of it? Sponsors. Your legislators. The mayor. Congresspeople. Reach to the audience that you know. You want them to come help support you. But you want to broaden your community. The reason you’re doing an event is to broaden your outreach in all areas, including funding. The more people you have on board, the more people you have access to.
 Russell: Everything costs money. It requires some thinking about what sort of expenses you will have and revenues. There is the dreaded B-word. Budget.
 Laurien: Everyone loves to talk to me initially because I love to brainstorm and create. That’s the fun part. Then I say “budget.” They go, No, no, we don’t have a budget. Well, you have to have one, even if you get absolutely everything donated, which I successfully did last year for an event here. We were not out of pocket for everything we needed. Everything came through to support the funding goal. However, that is not always the case. So you do have to create a budget. If you’re going to need it for your event, it should have a cost line item, even if you know someone is going to get it for you.
 Russell: What are some of the line items you should include in your budget? I know there are an awful lot.
 Laurien: First would be where the event is being held. If it’s in your own living room, that’s not a cost. Usually there is a venue cost. There is sometimes staffing costs. There is food. Catering. If you want to have beverages, even if it’s a conference and you are going to serve coffee. My goodness. I am going through all the items off the top of my head. Your promotions. Your printing. How are you going to get the message out there? Social media is popular. There are a lot of people who will attend who don’t do that. Again, know your demographics. If it’s a youthful audience, social media is great. Email is great. But there are times where you want flyers and posters.
 Russell: Are there some common line items you see people miss repeatedly when putting a budget together? What are items people overlook?
 Laurien: I would say people most often overlook are the obvious ones. If you’re going to have a silent auction, you have to have pencils and pens and paper for people to sign up. They get left at the office. I have seen that happen over and over again. The other things you don’t take into account are decorations. You want to offer a giveaway, and you didn’t plan time to get pens with your name on it so you can give something away to the people that are attending as a thank-you. I have seen ridiculous things. You are having a bake sale, and there is no water or juice or coffee. You forget the silverware. You have the plates and napkins and decorations, but no plasticware. As many events and items as you can think of, people leave them off.
 Hugh: Laurien, people think about booking a room. It will be an evening event from 7-9. They don’t think about how long it will take to set up and clean up. It’s part of what an event planner says. How long will it take you to set up? What time do people arrive? It needs to be set up by 6. It will take you two hours, so you need to be there by 4. Then people have to break down. I didn’t have a tear-down crew. Some of those things cost money. You can book a room for two hours, but six hours is a different cost.
 Laurien: Correct. A two-hour event is half a day because that’s how long you need the venue.
 Hugh: Russ asked this earlier, and I wanted to probe into: If we are planning an event, SynerVision is planning an event in May. It’s February, so we’re good. March is one month. April is two months. May is three months. We have 90 days to put it together. How do you determine how much time you need to promote an event and pull the details together? Is there a magic formula? Or do you have a paradigm?
 Laurien: I touched on this before. 3 months is respectable. You probably already have an idea in your mind of what this is, and you have done it prior to starting as of today. You want to line up your speakers and get everybody in place ahead of time. You’re getting a sense of what you need to do. I missed the last part of your question because of my cat attacking me. Sorry.
 Hugh: What we’re doing as leaders, we think about the event. I’m trying to think about why we would want a person like you to help us. Part of what I’m thinking about is to challenge me on my budget assumptions, challenge me on my timeline the day of the event, challenge my timeline on lead time, and challenge me for thinking through my goals for the event. I might think it’s just to raise money. You might say, Hugh, but part of it is to let people know more about the results of what you’re doing and engage them. You need volunteers.
 Laurien: Exactly. Those are all the components. You’re right. Someone wants to raise money as their goal. No, you want more. You want people to get excited so you gain a support base. You do need volunteers. Unless you have a huge budget and can pay for everything, you need volunteers. You need to plan set-up and break-down time, those extra things that need to happen during the event. You want to let people know at the event why they are supporting you. What are the great things you’re doing? What are the wonderful things you plan to do with this money you raise? It’s a return on investment for the nonprofit, not just dollar signs for the investor. It’s about the impact that you have on the lives and the community or the cause that you are making a difference in a positive way for. You want people to go away feeling like, I understand why Hugh is so excited about his organization. It has a bigger vision I wasn’t aware of before.
 Hugh: Also, we’re putting together the articles for our next magazine. It’s all around brand. Brand is not your logo; that’s a picture. Brand is what you stand for. Every event you do represents your brand. I have attended a few local nonprofit events. Dinners that are also a pitch for money. Here is what we’re doing, here is what we’re doing next. Or a luncheon. One of them had trouble with technology. The videos didn’t play. The mic didn’t work for the presenter. The luncheon was an hour. I had to leave at an hour and a half, and the speaker wasn’t done. There were variables like that. What is the start time and the end time? Have you thought about production? What will each element take? Have you scheduled a rehearsal on-site to check technology? You have offered an event checklist of five bullet points. There are lots of things like that that I would assume a person like you would help us think about these little things, that when you add them up, they help you represent yourself as a better brand.
 Laurien: The checklist I gave is very brief. The first five key things you need to look at. There is so much more that goes into an event. If there is a concert, you have to have a sound check. If you are doing a performance, you have rehearsals. We had two rehearsals at the venue. We had to book it for that. We tested our video and audio. The piano, the musicians, all those pieces. Those are the things. The talent is going, I am going to sing. That’s great, but the behind the scenes is what makes it happen. The audience has to hear it, so it’s not a disaster, but a great experience. Yes, obviously someone needs to be there to say, “As a speaker, you were supposed to have 10 minutes, and you have just gone into 20. We are way over.” The guy with the hook. Get him off stage. Gently prod him and move it along because we have an audience we will lose, especially if it’s a business at a conference. These guys are busy, and we don’t have time to expand what you thought was going to be an hour meeting.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I wedged my way in here. Russ was on a roll here.
 Laurien: I appreciate it. This is good. Thank you for doing that.
 Hugh: This checklist is a good basic guide.
 Laurien: I’d be happy to talk to people. When people do email, as they go through my website, there is a way to indicate your question, and I will get back to you.
 Russell: We have a new community here where we do Q&amp;As. It’s a great place to join. You can ask your questions about anything nonprofit-related.
 One thing we talked about was volunteers. What are some of the things you find are attractive to people to entice them to volunteer? What are some of the motivations that you’ve seen with people who volunteered to staff different charity events?
 Laurien: Usually the volunteers are already supportive of your cause. They are passionate about it. Sometimes they are students, and they don’t have time or money to be involved in a bigger way, so it gives them the opportunity to be involved. Get to a concert, and they are helping to promote it so they don’t have to buy a ticket and still see it and participate. I believe in feeding them and supporting them and saying thank you. Be grateful to everybody, including sponsors. Show your appreciation. The volunteers I have always come away saying, “Wow, I think I got so much more out of it than I gave.” That makes it rewarding for them. Some of them have found out I want to go into this field because they had that experience.
 Russell: Who in the organization should take point on this? Some organizations are large and have access to a lot of people. Who should be your point person inside of a nonprofit to take on this challenge?
 Laurien: I think the person that is the most comfortable being well-organized and can see the big picture. You have to be able to see the big picture in order to backtrack to where you are and what steps need to be taken. I really recommend that one person is their main focus. Making this event. That is their priority. All the pieces, identifying one other support person that can help do the details and the follow-through. There are so many pieces. You want registration. Who will respond? What if someone needs a refund on a ticket? There are minute details, and you need to know and have team members who meet weekly or daily to say, “Okay, where is the checklist? Who is responsible for this? Did you do it?” I have been at events. We are in the office, and our pens were across town. We had to go across the street and buy a new set because we had silent auctions and people had nothing to write with. Minor details. Who is responsible? Whose job was that to be responsible for it? It’s important.
 Russell: What are some of the things the board can do to help support that person? If that’s their one job, and the event is big, that’s a big job. How can the board support that person and set the table to help that person succeed?
 Laurien: If you have a board, the board is supposed to be supporting the executive director to do the job and help you obtain sponsorships. They can help you find the volunteers. They can be the ones who help you take on a role and support what you need to handle. If you need catering and creators and presenters of more information about the organization, they will help. The board has to be engaged. You guys need to follow the integrity and overall vision of what your organization is about. If they are not on board, it’s like pushing a boulder up the mountain.
 Russell: That’s quite an analogy. We have a lot of mountains up here. It’s hard enough getting to the top of them without pushing anything.
 Laurien: A team effort is important. Board, volunteers, staff.
 Russell: What kind of special functions would certain staff members in a nonprofit take? Are there certain tasks for events that specific staff members in an organization would be suited to tackle?
 Laurien: I want someone who can handle a database. As you are getting inquiries, you want to capture those email addresses. Ticket sales. We used recently Brown Paper Tickets, which helped a lot. A lot of people didn’t go online to do that; they were at the door. Data is a big deal because you want to continue to build your database for events. Answering the phones. Taking registrations. Following up with your catering needs. Someone who will be responsible and capable of insurances in place. Liability insurance, you may need. Getting all the details the venue needs you to have. Talent, speakers, those kinds of things. Make sure their needs are met. I have done concerts, so you have to have a green room for your talent, and make sure the crew has their necessities. If you have audio/visual and tech people, you want them to help you with documenting your event, even if it’s just a photographer. That is another way for future promotion. Your website development. Who is handling your website?
 Russell: Lots of moving parts for sure. One of the keys to being successful as a nonprofit is for people to know about what it is that you’re doing. Are there some common pitfalls that nonprofits have when they are looking at marketing an event? What things should be included in marketing? That is a broad term.  
 Laurien: It’s a broad term. You want to get the information out about who, what, when, and how. Who are you? Why would people want to come to your event? Not just because of the event, but why they would want to support you. What makes you unique? I have a calendar of events in front of me; why should I go to yours? Get your information out. We touched on social media earlier. It’s a big deal now. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram are all important. Email is a personal touch. If you have contacts, call them, send them an email of specifics. Sometimes a private invitation to a pre-event or something to make it important to them is good.
 Not only what you have done, but also what your goals are. Why did you get inspired about getting involved with this cause? You want to have other people have that experience, to get ignited, to want to be involved with you and support what you’re doing. Also awareness. We have had kids go door to door to hand out flyers and posters and get them in storefronts. Sponsorship is another category, but you have a lot to offer sponsors to help you as well.
 Hugh: Can we explore that a bit? It’s convincing sponsors. That is not a donation. That is a marketing thing. Sponsors want to be in front of your audience. Do you help people think about the messages they need to communicate to sponsors, or why it’s good for their business brand to be associated with your nonprofit?
 Laurien: I do that all the time. In fact, on the last event I did, I was fully sponsored. All of our costs were covered by in-kind sponsorships. In-kind sponsorship is easier to obtain normally. Nonprofits actually get the cash donation. You should package a sponsorship package up front when you do your strategic planning. Look at what you have to offer. People think they don’t. Yes, you do. You have a venue. You have signage. You can put the banner up for the sponsor. You have an information table at your event that gives the sponsor ability to be in front of your audience to give their message. How are they tied in with you? Why are they supporting you? Let them have access to your audience to address them about why they are sponsoring you and why they care about you. There are a lot of things you can do. You have a website; give them presence there. Promote them. Let people know what they’re doing. There is a lot to offer a sponsor. Printer sponsors are my favorite because you need printers. If I can get a printing company to be excited about what we’re doing and get our information out there, I have someone to help me do my banners, program, flyers, and posters.
 Russell: All sorts of things could probably be sponsored. What are some of the common mistakes that you see nonprofits make when approaching sponsors? What are some common misconceptions that people have about what sponsorship is and what isn’t?
 Laurien: They go in not saying the things they can offer the sponsors, not doing enough research to see what it is that would entice the sponsor to be involved. What is the sponsor looking for? Think about that. Not what you’re asking them to offer you and pay for, but what you can do for them to expand what you’re doing. It’s like a reverse view of how to approach someone. I do that with who you’re inviting to the event. What are they going to gain from being out of your event? Whether it’s the purchaser of the ticket, attendee, or a sponsor, look at what you can be of service and what you can be offering to them, and not just what they can give to you. That’s a mistake.
 Russell: What are some good examples of the type of value that a nonprofit could put on the table to entice a sponsor to come in that meets what they’re looking for?
 Laurien: The value could be your demographic. Who are you inviting to your event? Is it 200 people or 1,000? Are they the audience that the sponsor wants to be in front of? Are they the ones who are going to help expand the sponsor’s business? They’re local clientele. The local supermarket may be able to provide you some of the items you need for your green room or your catering, and they want those constituents to see them and see that they’re there for them. Come to our establishment versus someone else’s. Banks also. If you have a bank, people don’t understand who they can go to. If you have an insurance company, do you have a bank? Doctors. Massage therapists. Anything you frequent is a potential sponsor if they can be excited about what you’re doing. If nothing else, if you’re going to have a silent auction, that is who you will go to. Get them to contribute an item to your silent auction, and they get promotion and are donating it. They are getting their product out, and you are getting some support that helps you with your fundraising.
 Russell: Every sponsor is going to have a different motivation based on their business. Are there some good rules of thumb in general that a nonprofit can use when approaching a potential sponsor? What would you say are some things they should consider before approaching a potential sponsor?
 Laurien: I have done that recently. I walk in and let them know what the organization is, what we’re doing, why it’s important. We would love your support in this way. Sometimes I think instead of you telling the sponsor what you want from them, it’s like getting in a conversation. How do they see themselves being able to support you and participate? Sometimes it’s writing a check. I didn’t expect it, but I got a check. I thought it was something else, but I got a check because that’s what they wanted to do. I was pleasantly surprised. Others were a part of the chamber of commerce there. We had an event a couple months ago. I put out a senior discount deal. I said something about the organization who buys a block of 10 tickets will get the senior discount. I had five sign up right away. I had the tickets sold, the sponsors, and put their names on a banner we were already printing. It was creative, and it was a pleasant surprise. It was fun. Everyone had a good time. I think those are the things. You approach them, they are excited. I found that people want to support, but sometimes they just don’t know how. If you give them options. I walked into one years ago and was asking for a silent auction item. They came back and donated toys for Santa to give away. I had no clue that was going to happen. They had them left over and needed to get rid of them. It was a blessing all the way around. Be open to being creative, and let those things come.
 Russell: It almost sounds like for some folks, making an ask can be a scary proposition. It almost sounds like, Hey, take a chance because you never know what sort of underlying motivation they may have. You may be pleasantly surprised at the result.
 Laurien: I have been quite frequently. When you have an event, a lot of people fail to do the ask. You need to have someone. If you are not the one comfortable to do the ask, find someone who is, and give them executive power.
 Russell: Is there any one specific person that businesses and potential sponsors are more responsive to when that ask is given? A certain staff member or board member that they respond to more than others.
 Laurien: I think it comes down to personality about the person who is asking and how passionate they are about the cause and how much they believe in it. If they have been touched personally themselves and have a personal story about the organization, the personal stories or testimonials are the ones that trigger the greatest response in people giving. I was the director for Medicine for Humanity for years. The difference that people’s lives were changed. We had one of them who came from Uganda to speak about how their life was touched by this organization. That absolutely caused no dry eyes. Those are the stories. Maybe they physically don’t do the ask, but they are telling their story, and someone says, “This is how we make a difference. This is how we need your help to do so.”
 Russell: As a percentage of the time that you spend presenting your program or organization, is there a good mix of people who have benefited from the work you do? How much time is devoted to them? Where do you put them in your program, if you’re running one?
 Laurien: I’m not quite clear about this question.
 Russell: As you have an event, you have a program, usually the way you make presentations on some of the work you’re doing. The people you’re serving, how much time do you allocate in that program to have people give a testimonial in front of the audience?
 Laurien: It depends on your program. You don’t want to take too much talking head time. You want it to be effective. Depending on the length of time, I know Hugh knows this, get the people who are the key people who will be the most powerful. Take that time. Intersperse them if you want to have more than one so they are not back to back. I would not do more than 10-15% of your time to devote to that. You want to have a good time. Even if it’s a conference, get the information, what did they come there for? This is the added piece. You spice it up.
 Russell: I imagine with limited time, if you are putting a program together, is there a specific time in a typical program that would be the best part of the program for placement of these people to talk about the impact of the organization in their lives?
 Laurien: Probably halfway through. I would do the entertainment. Get them excited. If you have entertainment. If you have video presentations about your organization. Follow it with someone who can speak to what you just showed. Entertainment is wonderful. Singers, performers, dancers. Right after that, they have had the fun, maybe a silent auction, they had a break. Then come back and remember why we’re here. You want a flow. You want it to reach a peak and continue, not completely go down until the finale, where you get people together. End it with something entertaining and fun. That’s how I try to do it.
 Russell: I imagine that’s tough to do especially if you don’t have any experience doing that. That would require an expert who has a lot of cycles through that type of thing.
 Laurien: It is entertainment. No matter what it is, you need to capture the audience in some way. Whether they are there for a serious business conference or a luncheon or a cocktail party or just coffee, it’s community. It’s not a party, but it is. It’s embracing people to come together as a community to get them excited. If one person sees someone getting excited, that’s infectious.
 Russell: You mentioned videos. There are a lot of different things that can be done to mark an event and an organization. Is there an ideal mix as to what type of marketing materials that you produce?
 Laurien: It depends on the organization and your message. If you do have a quality video presentation, put it on your website. Offer it elsewhere. Do it on Facebook. Your LinkedIn. Places where people know what you’re doing. If there is local TV advertising and you have a budget for that, or a radio spot, get it out there to the broader audience. It does depend on the level and the quality. I hesitate because I have been a producer in TV. If it’s not a good quality, I would hesitate to put it out there. That’s just me. I would encourage someone to get quality documentation of your event. Video or great photographers so that you give your best presentation.
 Hugh: That is one thing that people need you for. They don’t think about those things after it’s over. I owned a photo business at one time. After it’s over, I’m as guilty as anybody, people ask me, “Did you take pictures?” I went, “Duh, no.” I am so busy doing what I do. We want to be Superman. I want to present. I want to run the event. I want to get all the people there. I want to manage the whole event. Really, I just need to be present and present when people do the recording. You can use those recordings and fundraising to promote other events. One important thing I see is when people come together, and you develop this new sense of community. It’s what I call a new architecture of engagement, as people come together and are doing something together.
 On your event checklist, there are five items. #1 is define the goals. What do you want to accomplish here? That is so important. Why do the event? Oftentimes, I see organizations do an event with a lot of volunteers and board members, and they only bring in a dribble of money. That may not be your only goal. There might be a series of events that leads to larger funding. So one is define your goals/objectives.
 #2 is identify your team. It’s important to have people tasked with specific things. Not just assume they will do it.
 #3 is create an event proposal. Everything you will do, put it there.
 #4 is create an event budget. That’s the B word. Where is the money coming from? Maybe people say, “We can’t afford that.” Don’t stop there. Think about who you know that could help you fund it. You don’t need to take it out of your regular funding; you could have special funding. You’re right. It’s in your strategy, your overall plan. You want to put this in there with enough money to do your job.
 #5 is set a date and book the venue. You don’t want to have it all line up and find out you can’t get the venue.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 Back to you, Laurien. What do you want to leave people with today?
 Laurien: I heard you say something earlier when people say, “I can’t afford that.” Think outside the box. Have fun with it. Be creative. We go back to the strategic plan. What do you want to do? Why do you want to do this event? If you can’t do it, then what can you do right now to propel what you’re ultimately wanting to do? Find the people. If you don’t have it, you have boards and staff. Say, “This is what I’d like to do.” Even your friends. You have no clue who whom you know will know. That space might be available. Don’t give up. Don’t be discouraged. Everyone can make a difference. You can get the word out about what you’re doing and increase your outreach and awareness, which will ultimately increase your donor base.
 Russell: Thank you. Lots to think about. Lots to unpack. Grab a copy of that checklist. Get in touch with Laurien for a deeper dive. There is always more than meets the eye to these kinds of things.
  
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>LAURIEN TOWERS</strong> began her diversified career of over 30 years as one of the producers of LIVE AID, immediately followed by several other live global telecasts. Laurien has produced and directed multi-cultural events internationally including with Eastern Bloc nations, concerts, animation, film, and theatre. Her expertise includes strategic planning, creative development, and production of special events, benefits, concerts, live global telecasts, animation, documentaries and film festivals.</p> <p>Ms. Towers has extensive experience in Special Events Production &amp; Management. She has worked internationally with government agencies, non-profit organizations, private companies, performers and media worldwide to create and establish joint business ventures and entertainment co-productions. Laurien has organized, produced, directed and managed the logistics, travel and promotional details for business conferences, benefits, concerts, live global telecasts,theatrical, film and video productions. Additionally, she has managed and represented international musical acts for charitable events and commercial concert venues in the U.S.</p> <p>Dedicated to promoting cross-cultural understanding and cooperation, Laurien has been involved with the development and production of positive, innovative projects that focus on children, humanitarian, and environmental issues. She has served as Executive Director for Medicine for Humanity, an international non-profit organization dedicated to improving<br> women’s health worldwide, and consults with other non-profit organizations to develop creative projects and mutually beneficial alliances with local venues and businesses for fundraising events.</p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>NPE Laurien Towers</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Hey friends, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Russ, we got another good guest today, thanks to you. You reached out and talked to Laurien. Russ, how are you today?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> It’s a fine day here in Aurora, Colorado, right by Denver. We’ve got Laurien Towers. Brilliant lady who has done a lot of events. She is here to share her wisdom with us about how to run an event for your nonprofit. Some of the things that will enhance your success.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> With that lead-in, Laurien, welcome.</p> <p><strong>Laurien Towers:</strong> Thank you, Hugh and Russ. I am honored and privileged to be here with you. I love what you guys are doing. I’ve watched diligently the past few months. I’ve been an event producer for what feels like my whole life, over 30 years. I have worked on huge events, live global satellite shows. I began with Live Aid. I was in the former Soviet Union for a number of live telecasts and concerts. I did a film project with them. I have worked in the Caribbean. I don’t just do large events. I work with smaller nonprofits. I just came up to Washington to work with one and do an annual one. I have worked with churches and kids’ groups and Save the Whales. I am well-versed and love doing events for causes to help them raise money, awareness, and make a difference and expand the great work they all do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you. We have some specific questions we want to ask you. Before we get into that, I want you to give us some perspective. Why should people have events? Then what is an example of an event that went wrong?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> How long do you have?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want to get into the questions, so give us a summary.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I prefer to focus on the ones that work. In any case, why people do events. The first obvious one is they want to raise money for their cause, organization, church. How can we have a big party and have people come support us? That is not the only reason. Sometimes it is a new organization, or you moved to a new location, so you do it to invite the community into my home to see what I do and what I’m passionate about and hopefully inspire them to be excited about what you care about doing, as I am. A lot of it is about awareness and outreach, expanding your base, whether it’s just community relationships, and your support base, donors, long-term, to help you do what you love doing.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What are some things people need to look at? I want to have a fundraising event. What are some things people need to look at before they make a decision to try to do an event?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> For me, it always starts with a strategic plan. Where are you? Looking at reality, where you are right now, what resources do you have? I don’t mean just financial. Do you have a staff that is 100% dedicated to what they have to do every day? Do they have a huge workload so they can’t take on another thing? Or do you have volunteers? Do you have someone specific to do events? That is a key piece. When you get into the event, the event takes on a life of its own. I don’t care if it’s a bake sale or Live Aid. They are a living entity. You look at the resources you have, your team. Identify your strengths. What do you need? Is it easily accessible to you to do it? Sometimes people start off with wanting to do a huge event to make a difference. Then you look at it and go, “I can only do a bake sale.” Start with where you are. I believe in stepping stones.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There are a lot of parts to unpack. Getting back to what Hugh asked, talk about some of the things you have seen happen where some of the key parts were missing. Events that went off the rails.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I think the first thing is you are not clearly defining your goals and not really identifying who is going to take on which role to make it happen. Getting ahead of yourself. Not following step by step. We are going to have this festival. Where are you now? Where are you going to have it? You have to consider weather, the location, all the things that can go wrong. If you are doing a live event, something will go awry. You will have to watch the football game on Sunday. You have to be prepared to do that. That is the key piece, the one I see over and over again, people jump in and don’t have a clue. They start promoting it before they have all the pieces in place. Then they have to backtrack. It’s taking time. A lot of it is you don’t have enough lead time either. Oh, we can do that next month. No, you really need a significant amount of lead time to prepare properly.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Are there specific rules of thumb in general people want to look at from a time perspective as to how far ahead we need to look at this for an event?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> My key always is to do a minimum lead time of 4-6 months. You’re asking for extra problems and challenges to show up if you do it any sooner than that.</p> <p>Also, it depends on your location. Weather is a factor. Both you and I and Hugh, last month, couldn’t do things outdoors. If you planned it, it was probably going to be postponed.</p> <p>Other events happening in your area. Pay attention. There are calendars everywhere. If you want to do an event, but there are 10 others happening in that period of time, they will take your audience who would come and support you.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>What types of things go into looking at who the audience is and who you want to bring in to your event?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> It’s about what your focused on. I heard you the other day talking about the homeless community. People who care about the cause. That’s where you want to go. Who do you want to identify? Who would you like to get engaged with your organization, who is not already aware of it? Sponsors. Your legislators. The mayor. Congresspeople. Reach to the audience that you know. You want them to come help support you. But you want to broaden your community. The reason you’re doing an event is to broaden your outreach in all areas, including funding. The more people you have on board, the more people you have access to.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Everything costs money. It requires some thinking about what sort of expenses you will have and revenues. There is the dreaded B-word. Budget.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> Everyone loves to talk to me initially because I love to brainstorm and create. That’s the fun part. Then I say “budget.” They go, No, no, we don’t have a budget. Well, you have to have one, even if you get absolutely everything donated, which I successfully did last year for an event here. We were not out of pocket for everything we needed. Everything came through to support the funding goal. However, that is not always the case. So you do have to create a budget. If you’re going to need it for your event, it should have a cost line item, even if you know someone is going to get it for you.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What are some of the line items you should include in your budget? I know there are an awful lot.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> First would be where the event is being held. If it’s in your own living room, that’s not a cost. Usually there is a venue cost. There is sometimes staffing costs. There is food. Catering. If you want to have beverages, even if it’s a conference and you are going to serve coffee. My goodness. I am going through all the items off the top of my head. Your promotions. Your printing. How are you going to get the message out there? Social media is popular. There are a lot of people who will attend who don’t do that. Again, know your demographics. If it’s a youthful audience, social media is great. Email is great. But there are times where you want flyers and posters.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Are there some common line items you see people miss repeatedly when putting a budget together? What are items people overlook?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I would say people most often overlook are the obvious ones. If you’re going to have a silent auction, you have to have pencils and pens and paper for people to sign up. They get left at the office. I have seen that happen over and over again. The other things you don’t take into account are decorations. You want to offer a giveaway, and you didn’t plan time to get pens with your name on it so you can give something away to the people that are attending as a thank-you. I have seen ridiculous things. You are having a bake sale, and there is no water or juice or coffee. You forget the silverware. You have the plates and napkins and decorations, but no plasticware. As many events and items as you can think of, people leave them off.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Laurien, people think about booking a room. It will be an evening event from 7-9. They don’t think about how long it will take to set up and clean up. It’s part of what an event planner says. How long will it take you to set up? What time do people arrive? It needs to be set up by 6. It will take you two hours, so you need to be there by 4. Then people have to break down. I didn’t have a tear-down crew. Some of those things cost money. You can book a room for two hours, but six hours is a different cost.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> Correct. A two-hour event is half a day because that’s how long you need the venue.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ asked this earlier, and I wanted to probe into: If we are planning an event, SynerVision is planning an event in May. It’s February, so we’re good. March is one month. April is two months. May is three months. We have 90 days to put it together. How do you determine how much time you need to promote an event and pull the details together? Is there a magic formula? Or do you have a paradigm?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I touched on this before. 3 months is respectable. You probably already have an idea in your mind of what this is, and you have done it prior to starting as of today. You want to line up your speakers and get everybody in place ahead of time. You’re getting a sense of what you need to do. I missed the last part of your question because of my cat attacking me. Sorry.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What we’re doing as leaders, we think about the event. I’m trying to think about why we would want a person like you to help us. Part of what I’m thinking about is to challenge me on my budget assumptions, challenge me on my timeline the day of the event, challenge my timeline on lead time, and challenge me for thinking through my goals for the event. I might think it’s just to raise money. You might say, Hugh, but part of it is to let people know more about the results of what you’re doing and engage them. You need volunteers.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> Exactly. Those are all the components. You’re right. Someone wants to raise money as their goal. No, you want more. You want people to get excited so you gain a support base. You do need volunteers. Unless you have a huge budget and can pay for everything, you need volunteers. You need to plan set-up and break-down time, those extra things that need to happen during the event. You want to let people know at the event why they are supporting you. What are the great things you’re doing? What are the wonderful things you plan to do with this money you raise? It’s a return on investment for the nonprofit, not just dollar signs for the investor. It’s about the impact that you have on the lives and the community or the cause that you are making a difference in a positive way for. You want people to go away feeling like, I understand why Hugh is so excited about his organization. It has a bigger vision I wasn’t aware of before.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Also, we’re putting together the articles for our next magazine. It’s all around brand. Brand is not your logo; that’s a picture. Brand is what you stand for. Every event you do represents your brand. I have attended a few local nonprofit events. Dinners that are also a pitch for money. Here is what we’re doing, here is what we’re doing next. Or a luncheon. One of them had trouble with technology. The videos didn’t play. The mic didn’t work for the presenter. The luncheon was an hour. I had to leave at an hour and a half, and the speaker wasn’t done. There were variables like that. What is the start time and the end time? Have you thought about production? What will each element take? Have you scheduled a rehearsal on-site to check technology? You have offered an event checklist of five bullet points. There are lots of things like that that I would assume a person like you would help us think about these little things, that when you add them up, they help you represent yourself as a better brand.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> The checklist I gave is very brief. The first five key things you need to look at. There is so much more that goes into an event. If there is a concert, you have to have a sound check. If you are doing a performance, you have rehearsals. We had two rehearsals at the venue. We had to book it for that. We tested our video and audio. The piano, the musicians, all those pieces. Those are the things. The talent is going, I am going to sing. That’s great, but the behind the scenes is what makes it happen. The audience has to hear it, so it’s not a disaster, but a great experience. Yes, obviously someone needs to be there to say, “As a speaker, you were supposed to have 10 minutes, and you have just gone into 20. We are way over.” The guy with the hook. Get him off stage. Gently prod him and move it along because we have an audience we will lose, especially if it’s a business at a conference. These guys are busy, and we don’t have time to expand what you thought was going to be an hour meeting.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. I wedged my way in here. Russ was on a roll here.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I appreciate it. This is good. Thank you for doing that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This checklist is a good basic guide.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I’d be happy to talk to people. When people do email, as they go through my website, there is a way to indicate your question, and I will get back to you.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> We have a new community here where we do Q&amp;As. It’s a great place to join. You can ask your questions about anything nonprofit-related.</p> <p>One thing we talked about was volunteers. What are some of the things you find are attractive to people to entice them to volunteer? What are some of the motivations that you’ve seen with people who volunteered to staff different charity events?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> Usually the volunteers are already supportive of your cause. They are passionate about it. Sometimes they are students, and they don’t have time or money to be involved in a bigger way, so it gives them the opportunity to be involved. Get to a concert, and they are helping to promote it so they don’t have to buy a ticket and still see it and participate. I believe in feeding them and supporting them and saying thank you. Be grateful to everybody, including sponsors. Show your appreciation. The volunteers I have always come away saying, “Wow, I think I got so much more out of it than I gave.” That makes it rewarding for them. Some of them have found out I want to go into this field because they had that experience.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Who in the organization should take point on this? Some organizations are large and have access to a lot of people. Who should be your point person inside of a nonprofit to take on this challenge?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I think the person that is the most comfortable being well-organized and can see the big picture. You have to be able to see the big picture in order to backtrack to where you are and what steps need to be taken. I really recommend that one person is their main focus. Making this event. That is their priority. All the pieces, identifying one other support person that can help do the details and the follow-through. There are so many pieces. You want registration. Who will respond? What if someone needs a refund on a ticket? There are minute details, and you need to know and have team members who meet weekly or daily to say, “Okay, where is the checklist? Who is responsible for this? Did you do it?” I have been at events. We are in the office, and our pens were across town. We had to go across the street and buy a new set because we had silent auctions and people had nothing to write with. Minor details. Who is responsible? Whose job was that to be responsible for it? It’s important.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What are some of the things the board can do to help support that person? If that’s their one job, and the event is big, that’s a big job. How can the board support that person and set the table to help that person succeed?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> If you have a board, the board is supposed to be supporting the executive director to do the job and help you obtain sponsorships. They can help you find the volunteers. They can be the ones who help you take on a role and support what you need to handle. If you need catering and creators and presenters of more information about the organization, they will help. The board has to be engaged. You guys need to follow the integrity and overall vision of what your organization is about. If they are not on board, it’s like pushing a boulder up the mountain.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s quite an analogy. We have a lot of mountains up here. It’s hard enough getting to the top of them without pushing anything.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> A team effort is important. Board, volunteers, staff.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What kind of special functions would certain staff members in a nonprofit take? Are there certain tasks for events that specific staff members in an organization would be suited to tackle?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I want someone who can handle a database. As you are getting inquiries, you want to capture those email addresses. Ticket sales. We used recently Brown Paper Tickets, which helped a lot. A lot of people didn’t go online to do that; they were at the door. Data is a big deal because you want to continue to build your database for events. Answering the phones. Taking registrations. Following up with your catering needs. Someone who will be responsible and capable of insurances in place. Liability insurance, you may need. Getting all the details the venue needs you to have. Talent, speakers, those kinds of things. Make sure their needs are met. I have done concerts, so you have to have a green room for your talent, and make sure the crew has their necessities. If you have audio/visual and tech people, you want them to help you with documenting your event, even if it’s just a photographer. That is another way for future promotion. Your website development. Who is handling your website?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Lots of moving parts for sure. One of the keys to being successful as a nonprofit is for people to know about what it is that you’re doing. Are there some common pitfalls that nonprofits have when they are looking at marketing an event? What things should be included in marketing? That is a broad term. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> It’s a broad term. You want to get the information out about who, what, when, and how. Who are you? Why would people want to come to your event? Not just because of the event, but why they would want to support you. What makes you unique? I have a calendar of events in front of me; why should I go to yours? Get your information out. We touched on social media earlier. It’s a big deal now. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram are all important. Email is a personal touch. If you have contacts, call them, send them an email of specifics. Sometimes a private invitation to a pre-event or something to make it important to them is good.</p> <p>Not only what you have done, but also what your goals are. Why did you get inspired about getting involved with this cause? You want to have other people have that experience, to get ignited, to want to be involved with you and support what you’re doing. Also awareness. We have had kids go door to door to hand out flyers and posters and get them in storefronts. Sponsorship is another category, but you have a lot to offer sponsors to help you as well.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Can we explore that a bit? It’s convincing sponsors. That is not a donation. That is a marketing thing. Sponsors want to be in front of your audience. Do you help people think about the messages they need to communicate to sponsors, or why it’s good for their business brand to be associated with your nonprofit?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I do that all the time. In fact, on the last event I did, I was fully sponsored. All of our costs were covered by in-kind sponsorships. In-kind sponsorship is easier to obtain normally. Nonprofits actually get the cash donation. You should package a sponsorship package up front when you do your strategic planning. Look at what you have to offer. People think they don’t. Yes, you do. You have a venue. You have signage. You can put the banner up for the sponsor. You have an information table at your event that gives the sponsor ability to be in front of your audience to give their message. How are they tied in with you? Why are they supporting you? Let them have access to your audience to address them about why they are sponsoring you and why they care about you. There are a lot of things you can do. You have a website; give them presence there. Promote them. Let people know what they’re doing. There is a lot to offer a sponsor. Printer sponsors are my favorite because you need printers. If I can get a printing company to be excited about what we’re doing and get our information out there, I have someone to help me do my banners, program, flyers, and posters.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> All sorts of things could probably be sponsored. What are some of the common mistakes that you see nonprofits make when approaching sponsors? What are some common misconceptions that people have about what sponsorship is and what isn’t?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> They go in not saying the things they can offer the sponsors, not doing enough research to see what it is that would entice the sponsor to be involved. What is the sponsor looking for? Think about that. Not what you’re asking them to offer you and pay for, but what you can do for them to expand what you’re doing. It’s like a reverse view of how to approach someone. I do that with who you’re inviting to the event. What are they going to gain from being out of your event? Whether it’s the purchaser of the ticket, attendee, or a sponsor, look at what you can be of service and what you can be offering to them, and not just what they can give to you. That’s a mistake.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What are some good examples of the type of value that a nonprofit could put on the table to entice a sponsor to come in that meets what they’re looking for?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> The value could be your demographic. Who are you inviting to your event? Is it 200 people or 1,000? Are they the audience that the sponsor wants to be in front of? Are they the ones who are going to help expand the sponsor’s business? They’re local clientele. The local supermarket may be able to provide you some of the items you need for your green room or your catering, and they want those constituents to see them and see that they’re there for them. Come to our establishment versus someone else’s. Banks also. If you have a bank, people don’t understand who they can go to. If you have an insurance company, do you have a bank? Doctors. Massage therapists. Anything you frequent is a potential sponsor if they can be excited about what you’re doing. If nothing else, if you’re going to have a silent auction, that is who you will go to. Get them to contribute an item to your silent auction, and they get promotion and are donating it. They are getting their product out, and you are getting some support that helps you with your fundraising.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Every sponsor is going to have a different motivation based on their business. Are there some good rules of thumb in general that a nonprofit can use when approaching a potential sponsor? What would you say are some things they should consider before approaching a potential sponsor?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I have done that recently. I walk in and let them know what the organization is, what we’re doing, why it’s important. We would love your support in this way. Sometimes I think instead of you telling the sponsor what you want from them, it’s like getting in a conversation. How do they see themselves being able to support you and participate? Sometimes it’s writing a check. I didn’t expect it, but I got a check. I thought it was something else, but I got a check because that’s what they wanted to do. I was pleasantly surprised. Others were a part of the chamber of commerce there. We had an event a couple months ago. I put out a senior discount deal. I said something about the organization who buys a block of 10 tickets will get the senior discount. I had five sign up right away. I had the tickets sold, the sponsors, and put their names on a banner we were already printing. It was creative, and it was a pleasant surprise. It was fun. Everyone had a good time. I think those are the things. You approach them, they are excited. I found that people want to support, but sometimes they just don’t know how. If you give them options. I walked into one years ago and was asking for a silent auction item. They came back and donated toys for Santa to give away. I had no clue that was going to happen. They had them left over and needed to get rid of them. It was a blessing all the way around. Be open to being creative, and let those things come.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It almost sounds like for some folks, making an ask can be a scary proposition. It almost sounds like, Hey, take a chance because you never know what sort of underlying motivation they may have. You may be pleasantly surprised at the result.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I have been quite frequently. When you have an event, a lot of people fail to do the ask. You need to have someone. If you are not the one comfortable to do the ask, find someone who is, and give them executive power.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Is there any one specific person that businesses and potential sponsors are more responsive to when that ask is given? A certain staff member or board member that they respond to more than others.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I think it comes down to personality about the person who is asking and how passionate they are about the cause and how much they believe in it. If they have been touched personally themselves and have a personal story about the organization, the personal stories or testimonials are the ones that trigger the greatest response in people giving. I was the director for Medicine for Humanity for years. The difference that people’s lives were changed. We had one of them who came from Uganda to speak about how their life was touched by this organization. That absolutely caused no dry eyes. Those are the stories. Maybe they physically don’t do the ask, but they are telling their story, and someone says, “This is how we make a difference. This is how we need your help to do so.”</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> As a percentage of the time that you spend presenting your program or organization, is there a good mix of people who have benefited from the work you do? How much time is devoted to them? Where do you put them in your program, if you’re running one?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I’m not quite clear about this question.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> As you have an event, you have a program, usually the way you make presentations on some of the work you’re doing. The people you’re serving, how much time do you allocate in that program to have people give a testimonial in front of the audience?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> It depends on your program. You don’t want to take too much talking head time. You want it to be effective. Depending on the length of time, I know Hugh knows this, get the people who are the key people who will be the most powerful. Take that time. Intersperse them if you want to have more than one so they are not back to back. I would not do more than 10-15% of your time to devote to that. You want to have a good time. Even if it’s a conference, get the information, what did they come there for? This is the added piece. You spice it up.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I imagine with limited time, if you are putting a program together, is there a specific time in a typical program that would be the best part of the program for placement of these people to talk about the impact of the organization in their lives?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> Probably halfway through. I would do the entertainment. Get them excited. If you have entertainment. If you have video presentations about your organization. Follow it with someone who can speak to what you just showed. Entertainment is wonderful. Singers, performers, dancers. Right after that, they have had the fun, maybe a silent auction, they had a break. Then come back and remember why we’re here. You want a flow. You want it to reach a peak and continue, not completely go down until the finale, where you get people together. End it with something entertaining and fun. That’s how I try to do it.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I imagine that’s tough to do especially if you don’t have any experience doing that. That would require an expert who has a lot of cycles through that type of thing.</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> It is entertainment. No matter what it is, you need to capture the audience in some way. Whether they are there for a serious business conference or a luncheon or a cocktail party or just coffee, it’s community. It’s not a party, but it is. It’s embracing people to come together as a community to get them excited. If one person sees someone getting excited, that’s infectious.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You mentioned videos. There are a lot of different things that can be done to mark an event and an organization. Is there an ideal mix as to what type of marketing materials that you produce?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> It depends on the organization and your message. If you do have a quality video presentation, put it on your website. Offer it elsewhere. Do it on Facebook. Your LinkedIn. Places where people know what you’re doing. If there is local TV advertising and you have a budget for that, or a radio spot, get it out there to the broader audience. It does depend on the level and the quality. I hesitate because I have been a producer in TV. If it’s not a good quality, I would hesitate to put it out there. That’s just me. I would encourage someone to get quality documentation of your event. Video or great photographers so that you give your best presentation.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is one thing that people need you for. They don’t think about those things after it’s over. I owned a photo business at one time. After it’s over, I’m as guilty as anybody, people ask me, “Did you take pictures?” I went, “Duh, no.” I am so busy doing what I do. We want to be Superman. I want to present. I want to run the event. I want to get all the people there. I want to manage the whole event. Really, I just need to be present and present when people do the recording. You can use those recordings and fundraising to promote other events. One important thing I see is when people come together, and you develop this new sense of community. It’s what I call a new architecture of engagement, as people come together and are doing something together.</p> <p>On your event checklist, there are five items. #1 is define the goals. What do you want to accomplish here? That is so important. Why do the event? Oftentimes, I see organizations do an event with a lot of volunteers and board members, and they only bring in a dribble of money. That may not be your only goal. There might be a series of events that leads to larger funding. So one is define your goals/objectives.</p> <p>#2 is identify your team. It’s important to have people tasked with specific things. Not just assume they will do it.</p> <p>#3 is create an event proposal. Everything you will do, put it there.</p> <p>#4 is create an event budget. That’s the B word. Where is the money coming from? Maybe people say, “We can’t afford that.” Don’t stop there. Think about who you know that could help you fund it. You don’t need to take it out of your regular funding; you could have special funding. You’re right. It’s in your strategy, your overall plan. You want to put this in there with enough money to do your job.</p> <p>#5 is set a date and book the venue. You don’t want to have it all line up and find out you can’t get the venue.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from Wordsprint*</p> <p>Back to you, Laurien. What do you want to leave people with today?</p> <p><strong>Laurien:</strong> I heard you say something earlier when people say, “I can’t afford that.” Think outside the box. Have fun with it. Be creative. We go back to the strategic plan. What do you want to do? Why do you want to do this event? If you can’t do it, then what can you do right now to propel what you’re ultimately wanting to do? Find the people. If you don’t have it, you have boards and staff. Say, “This is what I’d like to do.” Even your friends. You have no clue who whom you know will know. That space might be available. Don’t give up. Don’t be discouraged. Everyone can make a difference. You can get the word out about what you’re doing and increase your outreach and awareness, which will ultimately increase your donor base.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thank you. Lots to think about. Lots to unpack. Grab a copy of that checklist. Get in touch with Laurien for a deeper dive. There is always more than meets the eye to these kinds of things.</p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>How a Nonprofit Founder Launches a Vision with Mary Putman</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-a-nonprofit-founder-launches-a-vision-with-mary-putman</link>
      <description>Making Homelessness History: Listening to the Voices of Lived Experience
 After over 30 years in the hospitality and business world, Mary Putman found her place in the world of Social Justice in 2011. At that time, Mary offered her services to the Colorado Coalition for the Homeless to create, open, operate and develop the program for a Social Enterprise, Pizza Fusion. The full service restaurant offered transitional employment and job and life skills training for individuals who have experienced homelessness. This role challenged Mary to utilize every aspect of her experience, intuition, creativity, intelligence, humility, energy and heart; a process she welcomed and carries forward today. The Pizza Fusion closed after 4 years but the human centered work continues as Mary founded The Reciprocity Collective in 2016. The Reciprocity Collective is an organization dedicated to providing bridges between the business community and the nonprofit world to build dynamic partnerships to guide individuals experiencing homelessness and poverty forward; in employment, in community, and all aspects of realizing their full potential of healthy and enriched lives.
 About the Reciprocity Collective: WE need to shift our focus back to be more constituent centric, allowing the voices of those that we serve to guide the work that we do. Connect to that and to each other doing work in the community to build effective partnerships that do not compete for folks to call our “clients” but to collaborate to best serve them.  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2019 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7ace5fce-b329-11eb-9f0f-83e43bda3bd3/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Innovative Approaches to finding Solutions to Poverty and Homelessness</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Making Homelessness History: Listening to the Voices of Lived Experience
 After over 30 years in the hospitality and business world, Mary Putman found her place in the world of Social Justice in 2011. At that time, Mary offered her services to the Colorado Coalition for the Homeless to create, open, operate and develop the program for a Social Enterprise, Pizza Fusion. The full service restaurant offered transitional employment and job and life skills training for individuals who have experienced homelessness. This role challenged Mary to utilize every aspect of her experience, intuition, creativity, intelligence, humility, energy and heart; a process she welcomed and carries forward today. The Pizza Fusion closed after 4 years but the human centered work continues as Mary founded The Reciprocity Collective in 2016. The Reciprocity Collective is an organization dedicated to providing bridges between the business community and the nonprofit world to build dynamic partnerships to guide individuals experiencing homelessness and poverty forward; in employment, in community, and all aspects of realizing their full potential of healthy and enriched lives.
 About the Reciprocity Collective: WE need to shift our focus back to be more constituent centric, allowing the voices of those that we serve to guide the work that we do. Connect to that and to each other doing work in the community to build effective partnerships that do not compete for folks to call our “clients” but to collaborate to best serve them.  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Making Homelessness History:<br> Listening to the Voices of Lived Experience</strong></h1> <p>After over 30 years in the hospitality and business world, <strong>Mary Putman</strong> found her place in the world of Social Justice in 2011. At that time, Mary offered her services to the Colorado Coalition for the Homeless to create, open, operate and develop the program for a Social Enterprise, Pizza Fusion. The full service restaurant offered transitional employment and job and life skills training for individuals who have experienced homelessness. This role challenged Mary to utilize every aspect of her experience, intuition, creativity, intelligence, humility, energy and heart; a process she welcomed and carries forward today. The Pizza Fusion closed after 4 years but the human centered work continues as Mary founded The Reciprocity Collective in 2016. The <strong>Reciprocity Collective</strong> is an organization dedicated to providing bridges between the business community and the nonprofit world to build dynamic partnerships to guide individuals experiencing homelessness and poverty forward; in employment, in community, and all aspects of realizing their full potential of healthy and enriched lives.</p> <p>About the <a href="https://thereciprocitycollective.org/"><strong>Reciprocity Collective</strong></a>: WE need to shift our focus back to be more constituent centric, allowing the voices of those that we serve to guide the work that we do. Connect to that and to each other doing work in the community to build effective partnerships that do not compete for folks to call our “clients” but to collaborate to best serve them.<br>  </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3071</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Are Websites Dead? Pip Patten Shares Ways to Engage New Supporters</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/are-websites-dead-pip-patten-shares-ways-to-engage-new-supporters</link>
      <description>Pipp I Pattonis the co-founder of Search Intelligence LLC a digital marketing agency based in Tampa Florida. They specialize in SEO, sales funnels, and Facebook marketing. Pipp in a former life was a yellow pages rep back when your yellow pages directory was the search engine of choice.
 Pipp is a recovering golf addict, loves to travel and enjoys finding new and interesting restaurants with his fiancé.
 Pip says, "Nonprofits should be using all the current sales and marketing technology to build their brand and maximize their revenue production."
 More about Pip HERE
 Email Pip HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2019 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7adffcc0-b329-11eb-9f0f-c34929a8cbe8/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Why Every Nonprofit  and Business Should Have a Sales Funnel</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Pipp I Pattonis the co-founder of Search Intelligence LLC a digital marketing agency based in Tampa Florida. They specialize in SEO, sales funnels, and Facebook marketing. Pipp in a former life was a yellow pages rep back when your yellow pages directory was the search engine of choice.
 Pipp is a recovering golf addict, loves to travel and enjoys finding new and interesting restaurants with his fiancé.
 Pip says, "Nonprofits should be using all the current sales and marketing technology to build their brand and maximize their revenue production."
 More about Pip HERE
 Email Pip HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Pipp I Patton</strong>is the co-founder of Search Intelligence LLC a digital marketing agency based in Tampa Florida. They specialize in SEO, sales funnels, and Facebook marketing. Pipp in a former life was a yellow pages rep back when your yellow pages directory was the search engine of choice.</p> <p>Pipp is a recovering golf addict, loves to travel and enjoys finding new and interesting restaurants with his fiancé.</p> <p>Pip says, "Nonprofits should be using all the current sales and marketing technology to build their brand and maximize their revenue production."</p> <p>More about Pip <a href="https://www.si-5.com/">HERE</a></p> <p>Email Pip <a>HERE</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Telling Your Nonprofit's Story with Dawn Gluskin (Archive)</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-with-dawn-gluskin</link>
      <description>Telling Your Nonprofit's Story with Dawn Gluskin
 Dawn Gluskinhas spent the past 12 years in the electronic distribution field. In 2008, she became Founder and CEO of SolTec Electronics, an independent distributor and procurement partner to OEM and EMS companies for hard-to-find and obsolete electronic components. A true entrepreneur story, she started SolTec by herself, working from her home office (when her first born daughter was just 6 months old) and quickly grew the company from $0 into a multimillion dollar revenue generating firm. As one of the pioneers in the movement to detect counterfeit components and clean up the supply chain, combined with a strong social media presence, SolTec achieved much notoriety in the industry during their 6 years in business.
 She has brought her accounts &amp; expertise over to North Shore Components, an industry-leader in the counterfeit detection &amp; avoidance movement with an ISO/IEC 17025 certified on-site test facility, OEM excess inventory in house, and AS6081, AS9120, and CCAP-101 certifications.
 Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: I met Dawn at Shannon’s Business Acceleration Summit. Dawn is also a presenter at CEO Space. She’s gone from zero to 97 in about three seconds. Her sweet spot, Dawn, tell us a little bit about your background and why do you do this? What is it that you do? Tell us a little bit about that and why.
 Dawn Gluskin: Sure. Thank you. Yes, I’m Dawn Gluskin, and my company is called Blissed Communications. I help entrepreneurs and nonprofits and leaders tell their stories that need to be heard in the world. I do this because it’s a really brilliant, powerful form of marketing. If you want to connect with the heart of your people, if you want to move people, if you want to impact people, you have to be a good storyteller. You have to be open and vulnerable. That is where all the connection and the magic happens. I teach this. I also work with people one on one to help them write their signature stories or website copy. All that good stuff. I also help them through their mindset and get to the heart of who they are. Sometimes, why people don’t tell their story is because either they don’t think they have a good one, they’re not interesting enough, nobody cares, or they’re scared to tell it, people are going to judge me, all that stuff as well.
 You, Hugh, asked how this got to be my message and my mission. That is actually a great story. I always knew I would be a writer when I grew up until the world convinced me I would never make any money doing that. So I went to school for business instead. That is what got me started in sales and marketing. I have been doing that in some capacity for the last 20 years. My journey took me accidentally into the fabulous ultra-sexy world of selling electronic components. I did that for 15 years. I was selling semiconductors to Fortune 500 companies. Made a lot of good money doing that. Started my own business. Went from zero to $3 million in revenue in our first two years. I always tell everyone I had five great years in that business. We were open for seven. Long, painful story short, ended up having to shut that business down. We lost a lot of money and couldn’t keep the doors open anymore. We had some government regulations come down that affected our bottom line. I went from zero to $3 million back to zero again. I carried a lot of shame around that. What’s next? I had to go back and work for one of my old competitors while I tried to get my life together. I realized two things. I was the same person who still achieved all of this stuff in the first place. Sometimes we have a failure happen, and we think all the good stuff we’ve ever done has been wiped out. I never wanted to sell electronic components when I grew up anyway. I wanted to write and to help people.
 So what ended up happening is I decided to write a blog post for The Huffington Postcalled “The Power of Owning Your Story.” The premise was either you own your story, or it owns you. What it owns you looks like is carrying around shame. I don’t want them to find this out about me because they will judge me, they won’t like me, they won’t want to hire me. I came out, I told my story, and two things happened. That weight, heaviness was lifted. The antidote to shame is vulnerability. It was no longer a burden. The other thing was people were reading it and thanking me for being vulnerable, “You inspired me to share my story. Can I hire you? I want you to help me write my story.” That’s how my new company was born.
 I realized there is a big need for that in the marketplace. People want to see more vulnerability, more authenticity. Stories are powerful. It is a way to make instant connection. I signed a five-figure contract from a blog post, which is unheard of typically. There are many meetings and things that have to take place to gain that level of trust. But stories connect that deeply. Here we are now. I am doing what I love, so that universal 2x4 over the head when I lost my business was actually a blessing in disguise. That is where I am now, and I love helping others tell their story. Everyone has their own version of that, their own signature story, that helps them connect.
 Hugh: That is a powerful reframing. We let those situations define us, and those are really learning opportunities, aren’t they?
 Dawn: Yeah. Yeah, everything is happening for us instead of to us. If you can take that on in your life, that simple statement, it’s really powerful. What’s the gift in this, I always ask. What is the gift? Why is this happening? What is the blessing here?
 Hugh: You said you didn’t want to sell electronic components when you grew up. That is one of the differences between men and women. Men never grow up. We define ourselves in funny ways, don’t we? I think you’re being transparent and being vulnerable with that story can in itself inspire a lot of people. You help people market by defining their language, building their story, building that whole image, that verbal image, to attract their market.
 Dawn: Yes. When people put themselves out there, whether it’s on their website, their copy, their message, their emails, their social media, a lot of times people- How do I say this? They don’t put their whole heart forward, their whole selves forward. What you end up seeing is some very boring, bland copy that doesn’t tell the story. It doesn’t give the readers any- Why do they care? They are afraid to come out and be who they are, or they don’t have the right words to say it. It’s all in their head. It makes perfect sense in here, and they try to put it out there, and it’s just not connecting. It’s not easy to do, especially when it’s your own story. You have lived your life for X amount of years, however long you have been on this Earth. There is a lot that has happened. How do I take that and put it into this, something that will make sense in my business? That is a challenge for people. But when you get that right, it really opens up everything.
 Hugh: Why do people feel like they can’t talk about their story? Why do they feel insecure about being able to share a story? Is it that they think they are putting too much attention on themselves? Why don’t people embrace this?
 Dawn: There are a few different things. One is putting attention on themselves. When it comes to sharing the highlights and big achievements and accomplishments, a lot of people are humble, so they don’t want to come across as bragging. They just feel uncomfortable about bragging themselves up. That is one thing that happens.
 Another thing is people put themselves in a box. There is a rulebook about what you are allowed to say, what you are supposed to say. Maybe a coach or a consultant, they have had some training about ten things of what not to do. We have all these rules in our life that become ingrained, so there is a lot of confusion around business and personal. Some people, the old school teaching is you keep them separate. They are two different things, and you don’t overlap them.
 There is a new paradigm in business where it all overlaps a little more, especially with social media. There is so much transparency going on. There is so much visibility. If you have a corporation and you have an oopsy-daisy, you can’t sweep that thing under the rug. You have to own it. You have to say how you learned, how you are going to be better because of it. That is a new way of doing business. People are used to doing business the old way, “Nobody cares about me. It’s just about the business,” but it’s all intertwined. Especially with the millennials coming up, they are all about transparency, all about, “Who am I spending my money with? Can I trust you? Are you going to do what you say you’ll do?” What better way to gain trust than by being open and by sharing your story?
 Hugh: There is your story, and there is also the story of the value of the work that your charity is doing. We are talking to clergy, nonprofit leaders, community leaders, organization chairs, association chairs. We are talking about people who- In my experience, organizations are not really good about sharing their story about the impact that their work has. There is various kinds of stories that I’m thinking about. When you are raising money, you are talking about the value of what you’re doing and the programs you’re doing and why it’s important. But it’s also important to describe the impact of what we’re doing.
 Dawn Gluskin is an expert because of her experience in life, in telling, in helping people tell a story. What I’m hearing, and I’m not sure you’ve used these words, but I’m hearing you talk about how to create a compelling story that has impact on the listener. In a nonprofit world, we are talking about the impact that we have on people’s lives. Speak to that a little bit, would you?
 Dawn: That is a brilliant distinction. The story always has to be about a person. It could be about the movement. It could be about what’s possible in the future. I’ll give an example. You and I were together at a summit, the Business Acceleration Summit, this past week. They had a dinner where they always invite a nonprofit. The nonprofit they invited to this particular awards ceremony was the Children’s Hunger Project. Their mission is they collect and pack food and they give it out to the teachers for children for their schools to take home on the weekends. During the week, they get free lunch. On the weekends, they go home and are hungry all weekend. They started this program to make sure they have food on the weekends and during the summer so they are always fed.
 An example of what happens sometimes is a nonprofit might talk about the features of what they do. The features of what they do would be we collect food, we package it, we give it to teachers, and they pass it out. They are telling you the how of what happens. Inside of that, you might be like, “Okay, that’s a worthy cause. I want to get involved.” But if you want to bring it to the next level, you bring in the story part of it. You bring in what’s possible.
 They did a brilliant job of this. They showed a video at the dinner that was really good. They interviewed one of the teachers. What they said was they have 3,000 children who qualify for this program and who need food over the weekends, but they only currently have enough money and products to feed 1,500. They give the food to the teachers, and the teachers have to dish it out and decide who gets a meal this weekend. One of the teachers was talking about how heartbreaking it is and how one of the students came up to her and was crying when he found out he wasn’t going to get a package to take home that weekend. He was like, “But I need it. I’m not going to have any food all weekend.” She was in tears, and the whole room is in tears. It goes from collecting food and passing it out, to this is a real person. He is going home without food. Can you imagine going a whole weekend without food? That is the power of how you can show your people, connect with their heart of what you are really doing.
 Hugh: That is powerful. I do remember that. They are raising money, but they are not raising enough money. In a place like that, they need to be able to accelerate their level of impact to donors. I am thinking there is a number of places that stories could be important.
 I am going to toss it to my co-host Russell David Dennis. He is the good-looking one on the other side here. Russell, in Aurora, they put Denver on the map, Aurora, Colorado. Russell, you worked inside of a nonprofit for 11 years, I happen to know. You were the person that helped them source funding. As you’re hearing her talk about stories, it would occur to me that there is more than one place that we need to develop stories. What are some of the things that come to mind for you?
 Russell Dennis: The trouble with stories are they are kinda a double-edged sword because Dawn talked about mistakes. I’ve had challenges. Who hasn’t? But we get stuck in the stories of a bad experience, and we drag that around. We can tell ourselves these stories that stick with us even though they are no longer true. If we are stuck in the wrong story, we give off the wrong vibration.
 Here’s the thing. We are telling stories. Nonprofits, you are telling a story, whether that is consciously or unconsciously. What comes off unconsciously a lot of times is scarcity. We don’t want to sound like we don’t have any humility. We don’t want to brag. The fact is that nonprofit leaders of these organizations that are serving people are bringing all kinds of value out there. You’re not showing up with your hat in your hand. All of these catastrophes can turn into superpowers when you put them into perspective. When you talk about these catastrophes and they don’t have any power over you, people relate to you. Whoa, okay. It’s some Superman figure that is worth a billion dollars. That is not their experience. They can’t imagine being in that place. Where does that level of consciousness connect? Heroes are people who others can relate with. They can relate with, Hey, they’ve been down, they may be experiencing some of that right where they are at this moment. They are down, they are struggling, they are having a hard time. But you come back. Ordinary people overcome extraordinarily bad circumstances to become heroes. People fit into that story. They want to be a part of that. They want to relate to that. That’s how you make that connection, that emotional connection. Vulnerability is a part of that. Vulnerability, transparency, authenticity, they want to know that you’re real. People who can relate to you are gonna support you.
 It took a while to work its way back around, but relationships. Everything is based on relationships. Where there is any type- To be successful in any area of your life, you have to build good relationships. Where nonprofits are concerned, they tell a story of scarcity. They tell a story of hard times. They pull on the heartstrings. Yes, there is need out there, but when you go out there and your narrative is about, “You know what? We gotta have this money because I don’t want to lay these three people off in the back office. They’re really nice people,” what you’re doing is talking about what you need. The narrative needs to be on, “Hey, these are the people we’re serving. We are bringing massive value here. Here is how we are making a difference in the lives of people who started at Point A. We move them to Point B with your help. But to move them to Point C, we want to partner with you to do this.” What does partnering mean? It could mean writing a check, it could mean serving on a board, it could mean volunteering. It could mean any number of things. But you have to determine what that is and talk to people in a way that resonates with them. Find out what matters to them, and explain how you’re solving a problem for them or bringing them value. It’s not about you; it’s about all of these people that you’re serving and the people paying for those services. I gotta take in some air and get off my soapbox because my coffee’s getting cold.
 Hugh: Those are good points. Dawn, do you want to respond to that?
 Dawn: Yeah, I think you made a lot of good points there. First, when you talked about sharing your story, some people, the double-edged sword, you say, there is the story that we have that’s in our head that is controlling us, the narrative of our life, the story of “I’m not good enough. I’ve only done this.” You’re right. It does put off a negative energy. We really have to heal our stories. That’s what I talked about in my blog: the power of owning your story. You either own it, or it owns you. When you just accept all of the things that have happened, they are just things that have happened. This happened in my life. If you go back in your life and you look backwards, you can almost see how it’s all meant to happen and how one thing leads to another. You get stronger. You get smarter. How can I leverage this? How can I turn my pain into passion, my mess into my message? When you do share your story, you want to come from a place of inspiration, of where you have done the healing. We are not telling stories like, “I want my sympathy. Feel sorry for me.” Telling our sob stories. Okay, why isn’t the money pouring in? It doesn’t quite work like that. But you can tell your failures or your mistakes or the things that have happened. This is how I healed from it. This is how I learned from it. People feel empowered from that. People feel your heart. This is why I called this “Connecting to the Heart” because that’s what stories do. We see ourselves in each other’s stories.
 Russell: Dawn, what do you find is the toughest part of bringing somebody from that place where the story is not serving them to- You meet them, and it’s like, Wow, you are doing some crazy good stuff here. But you are having the conversation, and somehow they are just missing the incredible power that they have. How do you go about shifting them from that place where they might be stuck in that story to recognizing how remarkable they are and how they can actually communicate that in a way that resonates with other people?
 Dawn: I would usually do mindset work. Mindset in being that we all have beliefs running in the background, these programs that we have picked up on since we were children from our parents, our family, our teachers, the TV, advertisements. We get all these beliefs about ourselves. For women, with all the advertising about if you lose ten pounds, everyone is going to love you. You will be amazing. That program, because I’m not good enough, I’m not pretty enough, I’m not thin enough, everyone has their version of these programs that you have picked up. It’s really about reprogramming your own brain like reprogramming a computer. You have to put in good data. You have to rewrite it. I recommend journaling as a really good way. All of the things you want. I am powerful. I am enough. I am beautiful. Rewriting things until you believe it. Just every day, revisiting. When that voice comes up, not giving it power. The voice in your head is not who you are. You can just say, “The voice says I’m not good enough, but the truth is I am more than enough. I am a child of God. I am pure love,” whatever it is. You just rewrite them. Moment by moment, when you hear that negative thought coming up, you recreate it with a new thought. That works powerfully. It takes some time and commitment, but you can rewire your brain. Good stuff.
 Hugh: How do you help people who are stuck? Russell and I deal with people every day who get stuck in a place. Your title “Own your story or it owns you.” That is a really good synopsis of how we all get there sometimes. What you did is have a conscious action to say, “No, that is not going to define me because what’s inside me defines me.” Not everybody has that ability to do that. When you find someone who has a compelling story but they need to have that kind of breakthrough, how do you help them find that?
 Dawn: I can talk about this now, how I lost a $3 million dollar company like it’s what I had for breakfast. I had a banana and a green juice, and I lost a $3 million dollar company. It’s easy to say now. But to be clear, at the time, it was incredibly painful. I lost all my money. I was in debt. I had to go work for a competitor, which is the biggest piece of humble pie you could possibly eat just so I could pay my bills. I had gone from being inThe New York Times and on the cover of all these local magazines, a hero, to nothing. I felt like I lost a piece of my identity. I was broken. I did a lot of the suffering and the “Why me?” and “What did I do to deserve this?” and “Nobody is ever going to want to work with me.” I had peaked. I was 35 at the time. This is it. This is the best I’m going to get, and it’s now just downhill from here. That was all going on in my head just to be clear. It went on for a while. It took several months for me to get out of it.
 But what I did was I called in my support, my people, my angels, and had people reflect to me. “No, Dawn, you’re still an amazing human being. You’re still the person who created a $3 million dollar company at age 30.” They just reminded me who I was. Everyone needs that person or those people in their lives to be a mirror and to pick you up when you’re down and remind you of who you are. I think that’s important. I just did the work. To me, it’s journaling and meditation, taking care of my body physically, doing all that work. Sometimes we do get in a rut. And that’s okay. But don’t just stay there. Pull yourself out. Remember who you are, remember why you’re here on Earth and what you’re here to do and create. So that’s what I did.
 Hugh: Wow. My dear, that is wisdom that is far past your years, your chronological years. That is very rare. A couple old guys here.
 Dawn: There is an old soul in this body.
 Hugh: I see that. But you’re actually accessing it and using it and using it to influence other people. We are at the halfway point in our- We can talk all day on this stuff. I try to keep it under an hour.
 Let’s go back to the marketing piece. We have talked around it. I like to go back. Nonprofits, which is a stupid word, we are talking about instead for for-profit companies, for-purpose companies, social capital companies, charities.
 Dawn: I like that.
 Hugh: We are a tax-exempt company. We must embrace business principles. One of them is marketing. There is this whole anti-business thinking that goes on because we start with this nonprofit thing, which we dumb down. We think scarcity when really there is abundance out there everywhere. It’s there. It’s there for us to utilize because it’s not about us. It’s about the vision. It’s about the good we’re doing. I do find that there is a lot of people that are having trouble making that transition. They are living in this scarcity mindset. Let’s go back to talking about the importance of marketing and the importance of having this language piece down.
 Dawn: Marketing is the vehicle that you are using to get your message out there. It’s how you go from the purpose, the passion that’s in your heart, and expressing it in a way that lands with the hearts of the people that you want to move and inspire and get on board. Like I was saying earlier, the #1 mistake I see people make—it happens in nonprofits and small businesses, too—is where people talk about the features instead of the benefits. The features is we are going to take your money and buy this, and this, and this with it. This is what we do. It’s important information. I’m not saying people don’t need to know that, but what moves people is the benefits. How is your donation of time or money going to help us change the world together? How are we going to impact these lives together?
 Using specific examples, the little boy who goes hungry every weekend when he doesn’t get his box of food, that will inspire someone to open up their wallet and pay and donate or give up some of their time on the weekend and help package those boxes. Your marketing message really needs to be about painting the picture of tomorrow, a better tomorrow, a better future. How are we going to make this planet better? You have to empower the donator, empower the person you’re talking to, and reach their heart. Say you make a difference. By you opening up your wallet or by you donating this time, this is the effect it will have. We will feed 10 kids this weekend who would normally be starving until Monday morning. You will make a difference in their lives. You have to bring it home for them, make it real. That is what storytelling does.
 There is a saying that data tells and story sells. The reason story sells is because stories go to the heart. It paints a picture, you can see it in your mind. It’s almost like you are taking that money and its’ going straight to the little boy. Otherwise it’s like I give the money to you, and hopefully you’ll do right with it. You have to show them, show them your heart, show them what’s possible. That’s powerful marketing. It’s truthful marketing, too. There is no gimmick. It’s just speaking truth.
 Hugh: Do you work with people in a done-for-you work style, or do you teach people how to do it, or both?
 Dawn: I do both. I have digital programs that will teach you how. I actually have a free offering on my website that is called Brand Story Mastery. It walks you through the steps of telling your powerful brand story. You can go to BlissedCommunications.com and download that for free. Then I have other levels. I also have one on one. A lot of times, people ask me to write stuff for them. I don’t like writing; it’s so hard. Can you do that for me? We do that as well.
 Hugh: I have heard testimonies about the work that you have done for people at the conference where we were last week. Shannon was talking about how powerful your story was to help get the message across. Because it was a good story, it was picked up by more media. That is the other piece. We don’t really know how to do things. What Russell and I try to do is we try to convince leaders, no matter where they are, to hire someone who is better than them who can get the job done. It’s hard getting over the hump of we are spending money we don’t have. No, you’re investing in a process to generate more capital. So speak to that. The story, we have talked around that, too. The impact of that story. As I am thinking back over specific situations, I have worked with charities who have hundreds of stories. They have not written up a one of them.
 Dawn: They are sitting on a gold mine.
 Hugh: They are. It’s BlissedCommunications.com. I am guessing your blog is there, too.
 Dawn: Yes.
 Hugh: They go there, and they can get the whole thing. There is a problem here that we’re addressing. There is a system missing. Yes, it’s a marketing system, but it’s also- We’re sharing the impact of our work with people who could make a difference. We are creating a legacy in doing this work. We would like this legacy to go on- I’m a founder of a nonprofit. I’d like it to go on past my lifetime. It’s to everybody’s benefit that we tell the story. Let’s talk about systemically. The program that you have for free, could a nonprofit leader, if they wanted to get some board members or some volunteers to be the primary writers, is that a head start for them to get their head around the way they can write and what they could write about?
 Dawn: Yes, absolutely. I really try to simplify the process. You don’t have to be a writer. You don’t have to be a good writer to do this process. I call it the Three C’s of Storytelling. The first C is Clarity. The second C is Creativity. The third C is Connecting, connecting the dots. With clarity, you want to know exactly who you are talking to. Who is your ideal client? I say that when working with business, but who is your ideal volunteer or donor? Who are they? What gets them excited? What are they passionate about? What keeps them up at night? You really want to know who you are talking to because that makes all the difference. When you write copy, you want it to be like when the person is reading it, they are like, “How did you get in my head?” That’s how you know you have done the right copy.
 Another mistake that I talk about that I see happens a lot is people are too generic, too vanilla, whatever you want to call it because they want to talk to everybody. We don’t want to exclude everybody. I don’t want to just talk to moms and business owners; I want everybody to be my customer or to be a part of this. For some companies ,that might be true. But usually it’s not. Usually you want to hone in on who is the most powerful, impactful person to connect with your organization. That is who you are talking to. Naturally, you will pick out some other people outside of that. What happens when you are talking to everybody, you are talking to nobody. Nobody is so moved, wondering how you got in your head and are reading their mind or is so moved. You want to inspire people that way. You won’t be for everyone, and that’s okay. Being really clear about who that person is.
 Being clear on why. What is your why? Why do you care so much about this? Nonprofit leaders especially. It’s grueling work trying to get up and running. It takes a lot of time, money, and effort. You don’t always see the results right away, so why would anyone want to do that? Because you want to better the world. You want to better humanity. Expressing that is super important.
 Also being clear on why you. Why do you do it differently? Why are you the one to lead this movement, lead the charge? You want to express that, too. So being clear on what I call all the foundational pieces of messaging.
 Once you have that clarity piece, then you can move to the creative piece. The creative piece is, “Okay, what stories can you tell?” Whether it’s your own personal story of why you started the nonprofit, whether it’s the stories of the lives you have affected, the before and the after, the person who was living on the street, worked with you, and now has a house and a job, whatever it is, that creativity. Compiling a list of stories.
 Then connecting the dots. Putting it all together. What stories can I tell that make sense that connect with this audience and move this mission?
 There is some finesse. I walk everyone through it. That’s really it. That’s how you simplify it. The biggest piece that people miss the mark on is the clarity piece. Who are you talking to? Why you? What do you do differently? If you can nail that part of it, the rest falls into place.
 Russell: Dawn, if that was easy, everybody would be doing it. They need to have- I needed guidance for that type of stuff for myself in shaping my business, reshaping it. I am still doing some reshaping because there are things I need to do. A lot of times we don’t know what we don’t know. With nonprofit leaders, people look at several bottom lines. What are the outcomes that people are having, that ultimate impact? What are you spending? The majority of that work is not gonna fit neatly on an income statement. It just doesn’t.
 Storytelling can become a big piece of how you measure what’s going on. The best people to have tell stories are the ones who are getting the services. I start it here, I was working with this foundation. After a couple of years, I am in this different place. That is really powerful. That movement, this is the thing you’re not going to get looking at a report. Real human beings. This work that Hugh mentioned that I did was with a Native American tribe. You get people that walk in and they might walk in for one thing. Having gotten to know the families, it’s almost like I know where all the bones are buried. There is not a number in front of me; there is a person who I have gotten to know personally. You understand that. That connection is powerful in making sure that your donors and other supporters understand that.
 What’s important to them? Tell that story. I’m not everybody’s flavor. I know other people, and there are other people who are a better fit. This is where collaboration can be very important. in terms of collaborating or building collaborations, you probably run into people that you work with, who you told stories, and crossed your mind that, “These guys are doing the same thing that these other folks across town are doing. Maybe there is some synergy.” Have you found yourself in some situations like that? What things come to mind when you think of those types of situations?
 Dawn: Oh yeah. I am big on collaboration. That is what they teach at the Business Acceleration Summit and where Hugh is right now at CEO Space. It’s all about collaboration. We are really moving as the human species away from the competitive model into the collaborative model. It’s one earth. It’s one human species. There is really no competition anyway. We are all here to cause something, whether you are in a for-profit business or running a social business, as Hugh calls it. We all have a reason, a purpose, a passion. You can always connect with other people to help bring that mission further, when you take the ego out of it. What’s best for humanity? What’s best for the bottom line? Whether you are a for-profit or a nonprofit, you have payroll, so you have to make sure it’s the best for the bottom line. We are better together. When the synergy is right, it’s good to collaborate. That happens all the time. I love connecting people. You need to meet so-and-so. It might be a great fit. I love to see projects take off from introductions like that. I love collaborating with others, too. I do storytelling, so I have partnerships with people who do visual branding. They do logos and websites and things of that nature, and I do the brand messaging. That’s a good fit. We pass clients to each other. But any nonprofit who Is listening to this, there might be potential in that. If you think outside of the box, instead of trying to do it all yourself, how can you collaborate and be better together and make both missions go further? It’s a great way to look at the world. Opportunities pop up when you ask for it. One of my daily prayers is, “Please guide me to the people, places, and things who will help me grow into my best self and help me be of service.” People just keep popping up in my world. Like Hugh and many other wonderful people. It’s beautiful.
 Russell: I got myself mixed up with Hugh. Next thing, I’m all mixed up with Shannon. There is a cast of characters in there. Haven’t been the same since.
 Dawn: Like attracts like. We are all in the same game.
 Hugh: So intense, Russell. You gotta really count your blessings.
 Russell: My blessings are coming at a rate of speed that I gotta get my calculator out.
 Dawn: That’s a good problem to have.
 Russell: When you drop the abacus and pick up the calculator, then you know you are moving in the right direction.
 Dawn: You’re doing something right, yes.
 Hugh: That’s too much for my age and mental condition, Russ.
 Russell: You know what I have to say. Reminding people how long you have been around. Most of the people watching this broadcast probably won’t know-
 Dawn: I know what an abacus is. They still use them at my daughter’s Montessori school. They have an abacus in her classroom.
 Russell: There is a fantastic school. That is a wonderful model. In fact, I have a friend here who is looking at creating a Montessori school that is different than anything. The education system is another rant for another program.
 Dawn: Montessori is a great model. Love it.
 Hugh: There is a lot of themes that we have touched on here. We are coming into the last part of our interview. There is a place where people can step up their performance level here. It’s for a number of reasons. It’s not just for funding. You have already pointed that out. We want board members. We want volunteers. We want to get press for what we do. I mourn at the good amount of work that charities are doing and they are not publicizing it. Part of our job, Russell, is to help people create the space so they feel like they have time to do it and/or be able to delegate it out. That is the bottom line. Find somebody in the organization that manages publicity/PR/communications. Maybe we need a corporate storyteller inside of our organization.
 Russell, we got another couple of questions before we round out this really interesting interview. What are you thinking? What do you want to ask her to share with us at this point?
 Russell: Well, I think that it’s really powerful to tell stories. When you create a culture of storytelling, I’ll just ask Dawn if that makes any sense. How do you create a culture of storytelling so that you get other people talking about it? That is where the juice is. That is where the power is. This is what makes businesses want to get involved because your work is so good that other people are recommending you and telling stories. How do you create that kind of a culture so that people just step into it? “Oh, this is just how we roll.”
 Dawn: Just a real simple answer that is actually super powerful. Just ask. I think sometimes we forget to just ask. Whether it’s for testimonials or share your experience, we just think, Well, if they wanted to share, they would. I don’t want to bother them. If they want to share, they’ll do it. That is not always the case. People have good hearts and good intentions, but they are busy. They have a lot of stuff going on. But if you express how much it means to you, “It would mean a lot to our organization. We helped you. We supported you. We helped you get from A to B. if you could just share a piece of your story, if you could put a testimonial on our website,” whatever it is, “that would mean so much. You doing that, we are going to be able to help so many other people.” That simple ask is really powerful. People will do it if you ask them. That’s the easy answer.
 If you want to get a little fancier, you could build some sort of incentive around it. Contests. You can have people on Instagram post a picture or do hashtags and run contests where people have prizes and there are sponsors. You can get fancier with it and get buzz going that way. But the simple answer is to just ask. Tell people, “Hey, if you do this, just by you sharing your story, you will help 10 other people or 100 other people.” There is a lot of power in asking. Don’t dismiss that because it sounds too easy. It really is that easy.
 Russell: Speaking of Instagram, now that you have brought it up... [holds up iPad]
 Dawn: What is that?
 Russell: I have shamelessly quoted you on Instagram. “Own your story or it will own you.”
 Dawn: You’re quick. That was good. You have skills. He is creating memes while we are talking. What is your Instagram? I have to make sure I am following.
 Hugh: Dawn?
 Dawn: Yes, sir?
 Hugh: We are having some technical issues on my side. The Wi-Fi drops out every now and then. You’re saying to ask people. I find people need a template, some sort of format. We are writing our story, are there suggested- There is a piece of music. There is a form. You have your theme, your variations, come back to your theme. In a piece of art, you see the form. Is there a form piece for your story? You also ask for testimonies. Do you need to give people guidelines? We want them to talk about results. That is not normal for people to think that way.
 Dawn: That’s a great question. This is what I do. I try to make it as easy as possible for people. Maybe they wrote an email praising our work together. Maybe inside a conversation, they said something to me, “Since working with you, I doubled my income.” When people say stuff like that to you, write it down, or ask on the spot, “Wow, that’s amazing. Do you mind if I use that as a testimonial? Say I’ll write it for you and send it to you, and all you have to do is approve it, and we will put it on the website,” or whatever it is. Maybe you can go back in your emails, and you might have stories from people for the last year or two years or six months. You can start pulling those out and follow up, “You shared this amazing story with us. Do you mind if we share it with our people? Do you mind sharing it publicly?” You can help them in that way.
 If you are looking for a template, some simple questions to ask are, “What was life before we started working together? What were you suffering with? What were you struggling with?” “What was it like working together?” “What is life like now?” That is the simplest format. Before, during, after. Before we got together, my life was hopeless. I was living on the streets, blah, blah, blah. Now all my dreams are coming true. That simple template so people can see the before and the after, that’s as easy as it gets. If you can do the work for people, email it to them, get their approval. That is the easiest way.
 Russell: That is popular with quotes for books as well.
 Dawn: Make it easy for people. People want to help you, but sometimes you have to make it easy for them if you want to get the most help.
 Hugh: Are you hearing me?
 Dawn: Yes.
 Hugh: We gotta let you have a last word in this interview. You have given us tons of perspective-changing, useful information on how to proceed. I want to ask you- BlissedCommunications.com is your website. We are going to let you have the last word and give people a final thought, a tip, a challenge.
 Dawn, this has been really informative for me. Russell, I don’t know about you, but when I hear guests like this giving us best practices, I go back to myself and think about, Here is a place I need to upgrade. What about you?
 Russell: It’s always about upgrading. It’s always about learning. I always have things I am talking to people. You have heard me say before, and I have been doing a lot more purposeful networking and getting mixed in with people in the city. I have met a lot of people over the last month. I am often fond of saying, When I am in a room and I look around, it occurs to me that if I’m the smartest guy in the room, I run like hell and find another room. There is just so much genius out there. Everybody is unique and have their own unique gifts. I can learn so much. The more that I learn, the more that I have to share. We circulate this. By obeying the law of circulation, we are giving and receiving, we are growing and expanding. That is really the way to go. Everybody’s done a story, but how do you tell it? Having somebody that can help you shape that story, that is your mojo. That is your mojo because you start telling it, you get good with it, and it just becomes like gold.
 Dawn: Yeah. My final words and advice for people: stay visible. If you’re the best kept secret, all the heart in the world, people can’t help you. Get your message out there daily. Whether you use social media or email, or you could be saying to use snail mail, it is making a comeback. The emails get so clogged up. Writing blogs and articles, get yourself out there, do videos, podcasts. Be visible. Keep talking until you are tired of hearing your own voice. People will connect with your message.
 If you want a challenge, a challenge would be one of two things. Share your personal story of why you started your nonprofit. What makes you mad in the world so much so that you had to start a nonprofit to solve this problem? Talk about that. Let your passion and emotion come out in that. People will connect with that.
 Another idea is to tell the story of someone whose life you affected, the before and after, and what it’s like. Let the emotion flow. Share it with your people. They will love you for it. If you need help with all of that, you can definitely reach out to me, and I’d be happy to support you. I am Dawn Gluskin. I am the only one. Blissed Communications is my website. Let’s connect. Thank you.
 Hugh: That’s a great invitation. Thank you for the value that you brought to our listeners. Thank you for being here today.
 Dawn: My pleasure. Thank you, guys.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2019 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7af51ed4-b329-11eb-9f0f-dfe3882d6187/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle> The Nonprofit Exchange</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Telling Your Nonprofit's Story with Dawn Gluskin
 Dawn Gluskinhas spent the past 12 years in the electronic distribution field. In 2008, she became Founder and CEO of SolTec Electronics, an independent distributor and procurement partner to OEM and EMS companies for hard-to-find and obsolete electronic components. A true entrepreneur story, she started SolTec by herself, working from her home office (when her first born daughter was just 6 months old) and quickly grew the company from $0 into a multimillion dollar revenue generating firm. As one of the pioneers in the movement to detect counterfeit components and clean up the supply chain, combined with a strong social media presence, SolTec achieved much notoriety in the industry during their 6 years in business.
 She has brought her accounts &amp; expertise over to North Shore Components, an industry-leader in the counterfeit detection &amp; avoidance movement with an ISO/IEC 17025 certified on-site test facility, OEM excess inventory in house, and AS6081, AS9120, and CCAP-101 certifications.
 Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: I met Dawn at Shannon’s Business Acceleration Summit. Dawn is also a presenter at CEO Space. She’s gone from zero to 97 in about three seconds. Her sweet spot, Dawn, tell us a little bit about your background and why do you do this? What is it that you do? Tell us a little bit about that and why.
 Dawn Gluskin: Sure. Thank you. Yes, I’m Dawn Gluskin, and my company is called Blissed Communications. I help entrepreneurs and nonprofits and leaders tell their stories that need to be heard in the world. I do this because it’s a really brilliant, powerful form of marketing. If you want to connect with the heart of your people, if you want to move people, if you want to impact people, you have to be a good storyteller. You have to be open and vulnerable. That is where all the connection and the magic happens. I teach this. I also work with people one on one to help them write their signature stories or website copy. All that good stuff. I also help them through their mindset and get to the heart of who they are. Sometimes, why people don’t tell their story is because either they don’t think they have a good one, they’re not interesting enough, nobody cares, or they’re scared to tell it, people are going to judge me, all that stuff as well.
 You, Hugh, asked how this got to be my message and my mission. That is actually a great story. I always knew I would be a writer when I grew up until the world convinced me I would never make any money doing that. So I went to school for business instead. That is what got me started in sales and marketing. I have been doing that in some capacity for the last 20 years. My journey took me accidentally into the fabulous ultra-sexy world of selling electronic components. I did that for 15 years. I was selling semiconductors to Fortune 500 companies. Made a lot of good money doing that. Started my own business. Went from zero to $3 million in revenue in our first two years. I always tell everyone I had five great years in that business. We were open for seven. Long, painful story short, ended up having to shut that business down. We lost a lot of money and couldn’t keep the doors open anymore. We had some government regulations come down that affected our bottom line. I went from zero to $3 million back to zero again. I carried a lot of shame around that. What’s next? I had to go back and work for one of my old competitors while I tried to get my life together. I realized two things. I was the same person who still achieved all of this stuff in the first place. Sometimes we have a failure happen, and we think all the good stuff we’ve ever done has been wiped out. I never wanted to sell electronic components when I grew up anyway. I wanted to write and to help people.
 So what ended up happening is I decided to write a blog post for The Huffington Postcalled “The Power of Owning Your Story.” The premise was either you own your story, or it owns you. What it owns you looks like is carrying around shame. I don’t want them to find this out about me because they will judge me, they won’t like me, they won’t want to hire me. I came out, I told my story, and two things happened. That weight, heaviness was lifted. The antidote to shame is vulnerability. It was no longer a burden. The other thing was people were reading it and thanking me for being vulnerable, “You inspired me to share my story. Can I hire you? I want you to help me write my story.” That’s how my new company was born.
 I realized there is a big need for that in the marketplace. People want to see more vulnerability, more authenticity. Stories are powerful. It is a way to make instant connection. I signed a five-figure contract from a blog post, which is unheard of typically. There are many meetings and things that have to take place to gain that level of trust. But stories connect that deeply. Here we are now. I am doing what I love, so that universal 2x4 over the head when I lost my business was actually a blessing in disguise. That is where I am now, and I love helping others tell their story. Everyone has their own version of that, their own signature story, that helps them connect.
 Hugh: That is a powerful reframing. We let those situations define us, and those are really learning opportunities, aren’t they?
 Dawn: Yeah. Yeah, everything is happening for us instead of to us. If you can take that on in your life, that simple statement, it’s really powerful. What’s the gift in this, I always ask. What is the gift? Why is this happening? What is the blessing here?
 Hugh: You said you didn’t want to sell electronic components when you grew up. That is one of the differences between men and women. Men never grow up. We define ourselves in funny ways, don’t we? I think you’re being transparent and being vulnerable with that story can in itself inspire a lot of people. You help people market by defining their language, building their story, building that whole image, that verbal image, to attract their market.
 Dawn: Yes. When people put themselves out there, whether it’s on their website, their copy, their message, their emails, their social media, a lot of times people- How do I say this? They don’t put their whole heart forward, their whole selves forward. What you end up seeing is some very boring, bland copy that doesn’t tell the story. It doesn’t give the readers any- Why do they care? They are afraid to come out and be who they are, or they don’t have the right words to say it. It’s all in their head. It makes perfect sense in here, and they try to put it out there, and it’s just not connecting. It’s not easy to do, especially when it’s your own story. You have lived your life for X amount of years, however long you have been on this Earth. There is a lot that has happened. How do I take that and put it into this, something that will make sense in my business? That is a challenge for people. But when you get that right, it really opens up everything.
 Hugh: Why do people feel like they can’t talk about their story? Why do they feel insecure about being able to share a story? Is it that they think they are putting too much attention on themselves? Why don’t people embrace this?
 Dawn: There are a few different things. One is putting attention on themselves. When it comes to sharing the highlights and big achievements and accomplishments, a lot of people are humble, so they don’t want to come across as bragging. They just feel uncomfortable about bragging themselves up. That is one thing that happens.
 Another thing is people put themselves in a box. There is a rulebook about what you are allowed to say, what you are supposed to say. Maybe a coach or a consultant, they have had some training about ten things of what not to do. We have all these rules in our life that become ingrained, so there is a lot of confusion around business and personal. Some people, the old school teaching is you keep them separate. They are two different things, and you don’t overlap them.
 There is a new paradigm in business where it all overlaps a little more, especially with social media. There is so much transparency going on. There is so much visibility. If you have a corporation and you have an oopsy-daisy, you can’t sweep that thing under the rug. You have to own it. You have to say how you learned, how you are going to be better because of it. That is a new way of doing business. People are used to doing business the old way, “Nobody cares about me. It’s just about the business,” but it’s all intertwined. Especially with the millennials coming up, they are all about transparency, all about, “Who am I spending my money with? Can I trust you? Are you going to do what you say you’ll do?” What better way to gain trust than by being open and by sharing your story?
 Hugh: There is your story, and there is also the story of the value of the work that your charity is doing. We are talking to clergy, nonprofit leaders, community leaders, organization chairs, association chairs. We are talking about people who- In my experience, organizations are not really good about sharing their story about the impact that their work has. There is various kinds of stories that I’m thinking about. When you are raising money, you are talking about the value of what you’re doing and the programs you’re doing and why it’s important. But it’s also important to describe the impact of what we’re doing.
 Dawn Gluskin is an expert because of her experience in life, in telling, in helping people tell a story. What I’m hearing, and I’m not sure you’ve used these words, but I’m hearing you talk about how to create a compelling story that has impact on the listener. In a nonprofit world, we are talking about the impact that we have on people’s lives. Speak to that a little bit, would you?
 Dawn: That is a brilliant distinction. The story always has to be about a person. It could be about the movement. It could be about what’s possible in the future. I’ll give an example. You and I were together at a summit, the Business Acceleration Summit, this past week. They had a dinner where they always invite a nonprofit. The nonprofit they invited to this particular awards ceremony was the Children’s Hunger Project. Their mission is they collect and pack food and they give it out to the teachers for children for their schools to take home on the weekends. During the week, they get free lunch. On the weekends, they go home and are hungry all weekend. They started this program to make sure they have food on the weekends and during the summer so they are always fed.
 An example of what happens sometimes is a nonprofit might talk about the features of what they do. The features of what they do would be we collect food, we package it, we give it to teachers, and they pass it out. They are telling you the how of what happens. Inside of that, you might be like, “Okay, that’s a worthy cause. I want to get involved.” But if you want to bring it to the next level, you bring in the story part of it. You bring in what’s possible.
 They did a brilliant job of this. They showed a video at the dinner that was really good. They interviewed one of the teachers. What they said was they have 3,000 children who qualify for this program and who need food over the weekends, but they only currently have enough money and products to feed 1,500. They give the food to the teachers, and the teachers have to dish it out and decide who gets a meal this weekend. One of the teachers was talking about how heartbreaking it is and how one of the students came up to her and was crying when he found out he wasn’t going to get a package to take home that weekend. He was like, “But I need it. I’m not going to have any food all weekend.” She was in tears, and the whole room is in tears. It goes from collecting food and passing it out, to this is a real person. He is going home without food. Can you imagine going a whole weekend without food? That is the power of how you can show your people, connect with their heart of what you are really doing.
 Hugh: That is powerful. I do remember that. They are raising money, but they are not raising enough money. In a place like that, they need to be able to accelerate their level of impact to donors. I am thinking there is a number of places that stories could be important.
 I am going to toss it to my co-host Russell David Dennis. He is the good-looking one on the other side here. Russell, in Aurora, they put Denver on the map, Aurora, Colorado. Russell, you worked inside of a nonprofit for 11 years, I happen to know. You were the person that helped them source funding. As you’re hearing her talk about stories, it would occur to me that there is more than one place that we need to develop stories. What are some of the things that come to mind for you?
 Russell Dennis: The trouble with stories are they are kinda a double-edged sword because Dawn talked about mistakes. I’ve had challenges. Who hasn’t? But we get stuck in the stories of a bad experience, and we drag that around. We can tell ourselves these stories that stick with us even though they are no longer true. If we are stuck in the wrong story, we give off the wrong vibration.
 Here’s the thing. We are telling stories. Nonprofits, you are telling a story, whether that is consciously or unconsciously. What comes off unconsciously a lot of times is scarcity. We don’t want to sound like we don’t have any humility. We don’t want to brag. The fact is that nonprofit leaders of these organizations that are serving people are bringing all kinds of value out there. You’re not showing up with your hat in your hand. All of these catastrophes can turn into superpowers when you put them into perspective. When you talk about these catastrophes and they don’t have any power over you, people relate to you. Whoa, okay. It’s some Superman figure that is worth a billion dollars. That is not their experience. They can’t imagine being in that place. Where does that level of consciousness connect? Heroes are people who others can relate with. They can relate with, Hey, they’ve been down, they may be experiencing some of that right where they are at this moment. They are down, they are struggling, they are having a hard time. But you come back. Ordinary people overcome extraordinarily bad circumstances to become heroes. People fit into that story. They want to be a part of that. They want to relate to that. That’s how you make that connection, that emotional connection. Vulnerability is a part of that. Vulnerability, transparency, authenticity, they want to know that you’re real. People who can relate to you are gonna support you.
 It took a while to work its way back around, but relationships. Everything is based on relationships. Where there is any type- To be successful in any area of your life, you have to build good relationships. Where nonprofits are concerned, they tell a story of scarcity. They tell a story of hard times. They pull on the heartstrings. Yes, there is need out there, but when you go out there and your narrative is about, “You know what? We gotta have this money because I don’t want to lay these three people off in the back office. They’re really nice people,” what you’re doing is talking about what you need. The narrative needs to be on, “Hey, these are the people we’re serving. We are bringing massive value here. Here is how we are making a difference in the lives of people who started at Point A. We move them to Point B with your help. But to move them to Point C, we want to partner with you to do this.” What does partnering mean? It could mean writing a check, it could mean serving on a board, it could mean volunteering. It could mean any number of things. But you have to determine what that is and talk to people in a way that resonates with them. Find out what matters to them, and explain how you’re solving a problem for them or bringing them value. It’s not about you; it’s about all of these people that you’re serving and the people paying for those services. I gotta take in some air and get off my soapbox because my coffee’s getting cold.
 Hugh: Those are good points. Dawn, do you want to respond to that?
 Dawn: Yeah, I think you made a lot of good points there. First, when you talked about sharing your story, some people, the double-edged sword, you say, there is the story that we have that’s in our head that is controlling us, the narrative of our life, the story of “I’m not good enough. I’ve only done this.” You’re right. It does put off a negative energy. We really have to heal our stories. That’s what I talked about in my blog: the power of owning your story. You either own it, or it owns you. When you just accept all of the things that have happened, they are just things that have happened. This happened in my life. If you go back in your life and you look backwards, you can almost see how it’s all meant to happen and how one thing leads to another. You get stronger. You get smarter. How can I leverage this? How can I turn my pain into passion, my mess into my message? When you do share your story, you want to come from a place of inspiration, of where you have done the healing. We are not telling stories like, “I want my sympathy. Feel sorry for me.” Telling our sob stories. Okay, why isn’t the money pouring in? It doesn’t quite work like that. But you can tell your failures or your mistakes or the things that have happened. This is how I healed from it. This is how I learned from it. People feel empowered from that. People feel your heart. This is why I called this “Connecting to the Heart” because that’s what stories do. We see ourselves in each other’s stories.
 Russell: Dawn, what do you find is the toughest part of bringing somebody from that place where the story is not serving them to- You meet them, and it’s like, Wow, you are doing some crazy good stuff here. But you are having the conversation, and somehow they are just missing the incredible power that they have. How do you go about shifting them from that place where they might be stuck in that story to recognizing how remarkable they are and how they can actually communicate that in a way that resonates with other people?
 Dawn: I would usually do mindset work. Mindset in being that we all have beliefs running in the background, these programs that we have picked up on since we were children from our parents, our family, our teachers, the TV, advertisements. We get all these beliefs about ourselves. For women, with all the advertising about if you lose ten pounds, everyone is going to love you. You will be amazing. That program, because I’m not good enough, I’m not pretty enough, I’m not thin enough, everyone has their version of these programs that you have picked up. It’s really about reprogramming your own brain like reprogramming a computer. You have to put in good data. You have to rewrite it. I recommend journaling as a really good way. All of the things you want. I am powerful. I am enough. I am beautiful. Rewriting things until you believe it. Just every day, revisiting. When that voice comes up, not giving it power. The voice in your head is not who you are. You can just say, “The voice says I’m not good enough, but the truth is I am more than enough. I am a child of God. I am pure love,” whatever it is. You just rewrite them. Moment by moment, when you hear that negative thought coming up, you recreate it with a new thought. That works powerfully. It takes some time and commitment, but you can rewire your brain. Good stuff.
 Hugh: How do you help people who are stuck? Russell and I deal with people every day who get stuck in a place. Your title “Own your story or it owns you.” That is a really good synopsis of how we all get there sometimes. What you did is have a conscious action to say, “No, that is not going to define me because what’s inside me defines me.” Not everybody has that ability to do that. When you find someone who has a compelling story but they need to have that kind of breakthrough, how do you help them find that?
 Dawn: I can talk about this now, how I lost a $3 million dollar company like it’s what I had for breakfast. I had a banana and a green juice, and I lost a $3 million dollar company. It’s easy to say now. But to be clear, at the time, it was incredibly painful. I lost all my money. I was in debt. I had to go work for a competitor, which is the biggest piece of humble pie you could possibly eat just so I could pay my bills. I had gone from being inThe New York Times and on the cover of all these local magazines, a hero, to nothing. I felt like I lost a piece of my identity. I was broken. I did a lot of the suffering and the “Why me?” and “What did I do to deserve this?” and “Nobody is ever going to want to work with me.” I had peaked. I was 35 at the time. This is it. This is the best I’m going to get, and it’s now just downhill from here. That was all going on in my head just to be clear. It went on for a while. It took several months for me to get out of it.
 But what I did was I called in my support, my people, my angels, and had people reflect to me. “No, Dawn, you’re still an amazing human being. You’re still the person who created a $3 million dollar company at age 30.” They just reminded me who I was. Everyone needs that person or those people in their lives to be a mirror and to pick you up when you’re down and remind you of who you are. I think that’s important. I just did the work. To me, it’s journaling and meditation, taking care of my body physically, doing all that work. Sometimes we do get in a rut. And that’s okay. But don’t just stay there. Pull yourself out. Remember who you are, remember why you’re here on Earth and what you’re here to do and create. So that’s what I did.
 Hugh: Wow. My dear, that is wisdom that is far past your years, your chronological years. That is very rare. A couple old guys here.
 Dawn: There is an old soul in this body.
 Hugh: I see that. But you’re actually accessing it and using it and using it to influence other people. We are at the halfway point in our- We can talk all day on this stuff. I try to keep it under an hour.
 Let’s go back to the marketing piece. We have talked around it. I like to go back. Nonprofits, which is a stupid word, we are talking about instead for for-profit companies, for-purpose companies, social capital companies, charities.
 Dawn: I like that.
 Hugh: We are a tax-exempt company. We must embrace business principles. One of them is marketing. There is this whole anti-business thinking that goes on because we start with this nonprofit thing, which we dumb down. We think scarcity when really there is abundance out there everywhere. It’s there. It’s there for us to utilize because it’s not about us. It’s about the vision. It’s about the good we’re doing. I do find that there is a lot of people that are having trouble making that transition. They are living in this scarcity mindset. Let’s go back to talking about the importance of marketing and the importance of having this language piece down.
 Dawn: Marketing is the vehicle that you are using to get your message out there. It’s how you go from the purpose, the passion that’s in your heart, and expressing it in a way that lands with the hearts of the people that you want to move and inspire and get on board. Like I was saying earlier, the #1 mistake I see people make—it happens in nonprofits and small businesses, too—is where people talk about the features instead of the benefits. The features is we are going to take your money and buy this, and this, and this with it. This is what we do. It’s important information. I’m not saying people don’t need to know that, but what moves people is the benefits. How is your donation of time or money going to help us change the world together? How are we going to impact these lives together?
 Using specific examples, the little boy who goes hungry every weekend when he doesn’t get his box of food, that will inspire someone to open up their wallet and pay and donate or give up some of their time on the weekend and help package those boxes. Your marketing message really needs to be about painting the picture of tomorrow, a better tomorrow, a better future. How are we going to make this planet better? You have to empower the donator, empower the person you’re talking to, and reach their heart. Say you make a difference. By you opening up your wallet or by you donating this time, this is the effect it will have. We will feed 10 kids this weekend who would normally be starving until Monday morning. You will make a difference in their lives. You have to bring it home for them, make it real. That is what storytelling does.
 There is a saying that data tells and story sells. The reason story sells is because stories go to the heart. It paints a picture, you can see it in your mind. It’s almost like you are taking that money and its’ going straight to the little boy. Otherwise it’s like I give the money to you, and hopefully you’ll do right with it. You have to show them, show them your heart, show them what’s possible. That’s powerful marketing. It’s truthful marketing, too. There is no gimmick. It’s just speaking truth.
 Hugh: Do you work with people in a done-for-you work style, or do you teach people how to do it, or both?
 Dawn: I do both. I have digital programs that will teach you how. I actually have a free offering on my website that is called Brand Story Mastery. It walks you through the steps of telling your powerful brand story. You can go to BlissedCommunications.com and download that for free. Then I have other levels. I also have one on one. A lot of times, people ask me to write stuff for them. I don’t like writing; it’s so hard. Can you do that for me? We do that as well.
 Hugh: I have heard testimonies about the work that you have done for people at the conference where we were last week. Shannon was talking about how powerful your story was to help get the message across. Because it was a good story, it was picked up by more media. That is the other piece. We don’t really know how to do things. What Russell and I try to do is we try to convince leaders, no matter where they are, to hire someone who is better than them who can get the job done. It’s hard getting over the hump of we are spending money we don’t have. No, you’re investing in a process to generate more capital. So speak to that. The story, we have talked around that, too. The impact of that story. As I am thinking back over specific situations, I have worked with charities who have hundreds of stories. They have not written up a one of them.
 Dawn: They are sitting on a gold mine.
 Hugh: They are. It’s BlissedCommunications.com. I am guessing your blog is there, too.
 Dawn: Yes.
 Hugh: They go there, and they can get the whole thing. There is a problem here that we’re addressing. There is a system missing. Yes, it’s a marketing system, but it’s also- We’re sharing the impact of our work with people who could make a difference. We are creating a legacy in doing this work. We would like this legacy to go on- I’m a founder of a nonprofit. I’d like it to go on past my lifetime. It’s to everybody’s benefit that we tell the story. Let’s talk about systemically. The program that you have for free, could a nonprofit leader, if they wanted to get some board members or some volunteers to be the primary writers, is that a head start for them to get their head around the way they can write and what they could write about?
 Dawn: Yes, absolutely. I really try to simplify the process. You don’t have to be a writer. You don’t have to be a good writer to do this process. I call it the Three C’s of Storytelling. The first C is Clarity. The second C is Creativity. The third C is Connecting, connecting the dots. With clarity, you want to know exactly who you are talking to. Who is your ideal client? I say that when working with business, but who is your ideal volunteer or donor? Who are they? What gets them excited? What are they passionate about? What keeps them up at night? You really want to know who you are talking to because that makes all the difference. When you write copy, you want it to be like when the person is reading it, they are like, “How did you get in my head?” That’s how you know you have done the right copy.
 Another mistake that I talk about that I see happens a lot is people are too generic, too vanilla, whatever you want to call it because they want to talk to everybody. We don’t want to exclude everybody. I don’t want to just talk to moms and business owners; I want everybody to be my customer or to be a part of this. For some companies ,that might be true. But usually it’s not. Usually you want to hone in on who is the most powerful, impactful person to connect with your organization. That is who you are talking to. Naturally, you will pick out some other people outside of that. What happens when you are talking to everybody, you are talking to nobody. Nobody is so moved, wondering how you got in your head and are reading their mind or is so moved. You want to inspire people that way. You won’t be for everyone, and that’s okay. Being really clear about who that person is.
 Being clear on why. What is your why? Why do you care so much about this? Nonprofit leaders especially. It’s grueling work trying to get up and running. It takes a lot of time, money, and effort. You don’t always see the results right away, so why would anyone want to do that? Because you want to better the world. You want to better humanity. Expressing that is super important.
 Also being clear on why you. Why do you do it differently? Why are you the one to lead this movement, lead the charge? You want to express that, too. So being clear on what I call all the foundational pieces of messaging.
 Once you have that clarity piece, then you can move to the creative piece. The creative piece is, “Okay, what stories can you tell?” Whether it’s your own personal story of why you started the nonprofit, whether it’s the stories of the lives you have affected, the before and the after, the person who was living on the street, worked with you, and now has a house and a job, whatever it is, that creativity. Compiling a list of stories.
 Then connecting the dots. Putting it all together. What stories can I tell that make sense that connect with this audience and move this mission?
 There is some finesse. I walk everyone through it. That’s really it. That’s how you simplify it. The biggest piece that people miss the mark on is the clarity piece. Who are you talking to? Why you? What do you do differently? If you can nail that part of it, the rest falls into place.
 Russell: Dawn, if that was easy, everybody would be doing it. They need to have- I needed guidance for that type of stuff for myself in shaping my business, reshaping it. I am still doing some reshaping because there are things I need to do. A lot of times we don’t know what we don’t know. With nonprofit leaders, people look at several bottom lines. What are the outcomes that people are having, that ultimate impact? What are you spending? The majority of that work is not gonna fit neatly on an income statement. It just doesn’t.
 Storytelling can become a big piece of how you measure what’s going on. The best people to have tell stories are the ones who are getting the services. I start it here, I was working with this foundation. After a couple of years, I am in this different place. That is really powerful. That movement, this is the thing you’re not going to get looking at a report. Real human beings. This work that Hugh mentioned that I did was with a Native American tribe. You get people that walk in and they might walk in for one thing. Having gotten to know the families, it’s almost like I know where all the bones are buried. There is not a number in front of me; there is a person who I have gotten to know personally. You understand that. That connection is powerful in making sure that your donors and other supporters understand that.
 What’s important to them? Tell that story. I’m not everybody’s flavor. I know other people, and there are other people who are a better fit. This is where collaboration can be very important. in terms of collaborating or building collaborations, you probably run into people that you work with, who you told stories, and crossed your mind that, “These guys are doing the same thing that these other folks across town are doing. Maybe there is some synergy.” Have you found yourself in some situations like that? What things come to mind when you think of those types of situations?
 Dawn: Oh yeah. I am big on collaboration. That is what they teach at the Business Acceleration Summit and where Hugh is right now at CEO Space. It’s all about collaboration. We are really moving as the human species away from the competitive model into the collaborative model. It’s one earth. It’s one human species. There is really no competition anyway. We are all here to cause something, whether you are in a for-profit business or running a social business, as Hugh calls it. We all have a reason, a purpose, a passion. You can always connect with other people to help bring that mission further, when you take the ego out of it. What’s best for humanity? What’s best for the bottom line? Whether you are a for-profit or a nonprofit, you have payroll, so you have to make sure it’s the best for the bottom line. We are better together. When the synergy is right, it’s good to collaborate. That happens all the time. I love connecting people. You need to meet so-and-so. It might be a great fit. I love to see projects take off from introductions like that. I love collaborating with others, too. I do storytelling, so I have partnerships with people who do visual branding. They do logos and websites and things of that nature, and I do the brand messaging. That’s a good fit. We pass clients to each other. But any nonprofit who Is listening to this, there might be potential in that. If you think outside of the box, instead of trying to do it all yourself, how can you collaborate and be better together and make both missions go further? It’s a great way to look at the world. Opportunities pop up when you ask for it. One of my daily prayers is, “Please guide me to the people, places, and things who will help me grow into my best self and help me be of service.” People just keep popping up in my world. Like Hugh and many other wonderful people. It’s beautiful.
 Russell: I got myself mixed up with Hugh. Next thing, I’m all mixed up with Shannon. There is a cast of characters in there. Haven’t been the same since.
 Dawn: Like attracts like. We are all in the same game.
 Hugh: So intense, Russell. You gotta really count your blessings.
 Russell: My blessings are coming at a rate of speed that I gotta get my calculator out.
 Dawn: That’s a good problem to have.
 Russell: When you drop the abacus and pick up the calculator, then you know you are moving in the right direction.
 Dawn: You’re doing something right, yes.
 Hugh: That’s too much for my age and mental condition, Russ.
 Russell: You know what I have to say. Reminding people how long you have been around. Most of the people watching this broadcast probably won’t know-
 Dawn: I know what an abacus is. They still use them at my daughter’s Montessori school. They have an abacus in her classroom.
 Russell: There is a fantastic school. That is a wonderful model. In fact, I have a friend here who is looking at creating a Montessori school that is different than anything. The education system is another rant for another program.
 Dawn: Montessori is a great model. Love it.
 Hugh: There is a lot of themes that we have touched on here. We are coming into the last part of our interview. There is a place where people can step up their performance level here. It’s for a number of reasons. It’s not just for funding. You have already pointed that out. We want board members. We want volunteers. We want to get press for what we do. I mourn at the good amount of work that charities are doing and they are not publicizing it. Part of our job, Russell, is to help people create the space so they feel like they have time to do it and/or be able to delegate it out. That is the bottom line. Find somebody in the organization that manages publicity/PR/communications. Maybe we need a corporate storyteller inside of our organization.
 Russell, we got another couple of questions before we round out this really interesting interview. What are you thinking? What do you want to ask her to share with us at this point?
 Russell: Well, I think that it’s really powerful to tell stories. When you create a culture of storytelling, I’ll just ask Dawn if that makes any sense. How do you create a culture of storytelling so that you get other people talking about it? That is where the juice is. That is where the power is. This is what makes businesses want to get involved because your work is so good that other people are recommending you and telling stories. How do you create that kind of a culture so that people just step into it? “Oh, this is just how we roll.”
 Dawn: Just a real simple answer that is actually super powerful. Just ask. I think sometimes we forget to just ask. Whether it’s for testimonials or share your experience, we just think, Well, if they wanted to share, they would. I don’t want to bother them. If they want to share, they’ll do it. That is not always the case. People have good hearts and good intentions, but they are busy. They have a lot of stuff going on. But if you express how much it means to you, “It would mean a lot to our organization. We helped you. We supported you. We helped you get from A to B. if you could just share a piece of your story, if you could put a testimonial on our website,” whatever it is, “that would mean so much. You doing that, we are going to be able to help so many other people.” That simple ask is really powerful. People will do it if you ask them. That’s the easy answer.
 If you want to get a little fancier, you could build some sort of incentive around it. Contests. You can have people on Instagram post a picture or do hashtags and run contests where people have prizes and there are sponsors. You can get fancier with it and get buzz going that way. But the simple answer is to just ask. Tell people, “Hey, if you do this, just by you sharing your story, you will help 10 other people or 100 other people.” There is a lot of power in asking. Don’t dismiss that because it sounds too easy. It really is that easy.
 Russell: Speaking of Instagram, now that you have brought it up... [holds up iPad]
 Dawn: What is that?
 Russell: I have shamelessly quoted you on Instagram. “Own your story or it will own you.”
 Dawn: You’re quick. That was good. You have skills. He is creating memes while we are talking. What is your Instagram? I have to make sure I am following.
 Hugh: Dawn?
 Dawn: Yes, sir?
 Hugh: We are having some technical issues on my side. The Wi-Fi drops out every now and then. You’re saying to ask people. I find people need a template, some sort of format. We are writing our story, are there suggested- There is a piece of music. There is a form. You have your theme, your variations, come back to your theme. In a piece of art, you see the form. Is there a form piece for your story? You also ask for testimonies. Do you need to give people guidelines? We want them to talk about results. That is not normal for people to think that way.
 Dawn: That’s a great question. This is what I do. I try to make it as easy as possible for people. Maybe they wrote an email praising our work together. Maybe inside a conversation, they said something to me, “Since working with you, I doubled my income.” When people say stuff like that to you, write it down, or ask on the spot, “Wow, that’s amazing. Do you mind if I use that as a testimonial? Say I’ll write it for you and send it to you, and all you have to do is approve it, and we will put it on the website,” or whatever it is. Maybe you can go back in your emails, and you might have stories from people for the last year or two years or six months. You can start pulling those out and follow up, “You shared this amazing story with us. Do you mind if we share it with our people? Do you mind sharing it publicly?” You can help them in that way.
 If you are looking for a template, some simple questions to ask are, “What was life before we started working together? What were you suffering with? What were you struggling with?” “What was it like working together?” “What is life like now?” That is the simplest format. Before, during, after. Before we got together, my life was hopeless. I was living on the streets, blah, blah, blah. Now all my dreams are coming true. That simple template so people can see the before and the after, that’s as easy as it gets. If you can do the work for people, email it to them, get their approval. That is the easiest way.
 Russell: That is popular with quotes for books as well.
 Dawn: Make it easy for people. People want to help you, but sometimes you have to make it easy for them if you want to get the most help.
 Hugh: Are you hearing me?
 Dawn: Yes.
 Hugh: We gotta let you have a last word in this interview. You have given us tons of perspective-changing, useful information on how to proceed. I want to ask you- BlissedCommunications.com is your website. We are going to let you have the last word and give people a final thought, a tip, a challenge.
 Dawn, this has been really informative for me. Russell, I don’t know about you, but when I hear guests like this giving us best practices, I go back to myself and think about, Here is a place I need to upgrade. What about you?
 Russell: It’s always about upgrading. It’s always about learning. I always have things I am talking to people. You have heard me say before, and I have been doing a lot more purposeful networking and getting mixed in with people in the city. I have met a lot of people over the last month. I am often fond of saying, When I am in a room and I look around, it occurs to me that if I’m the smartest guy in the room, I run like hell and find another room. There is just so much genius out there. Everybody is unique and have their own unique gifts. I can learn so much. The more that I learn, the more that I have to share. We circulate this. By obeying the law of circulation, we are giving and receiving, we are growing and expanding. That is really the way to go. Everybody’s done a story, but how do you tell it? Having somebody that can help you shape that story, that is your mojo. That is your mojo because you start telling it, you get good with it, and it just becomes like gold.
 Dawn: Yeah. My final words and advice for people: stay visible. If you’re the best kept secret, all the heart in the world, people can’t help you. Get your message out there daily. Whether you use social media or email, or you could be saying to use snail mail, it is making a comeback. The emails get so clogged up. Writing blogs and articles, get yourself out there, do videos, podcasts. Be visible. Keep talking until you are tired of hearing your own voice. People will connect with your message.
 If you want a challenge, a challenge would be one of two things. Share your personal story of why you started your nonprofit. What makes you mad in the world so much so that you had to start a nonprofit to solve this problem? Talk about that. Let your passion and emotion come out in that. People will connect with that.
 Another idea is to tell the story of someone whose life you affected, the before and after, and what it’s like. Let the emotion flow. Share it with your people. They will love you for it. If you need help with all of that, you can definitely reach out to me, and I’d be happy to support you. I am Dawn Gluskin. I am the only one. Blissed Communications is my website. Let’s connect. Thank you.
 Hugh: That’s a great invitation. Thank you for the value that you brought to our listeners. Thank you for being here today.
 Dawn: My pleasure. Thank you, guys.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Telling Your Nonprofit's Story<br> with Dawn Gluskin</strong></p> <p><strong>Dawn Gluskin</strong>has spent the past 12 years in the electronic distribution field. In 2008, she became Founder and CEO of SolTec Electronics, an independent distributor and procurement partner to OEM and EMS companies for hard-to-find and obsolete electronic components. A true entrepreneur story, she started SolTec by herself, working from her home office (when her first born daughter was just 6 months old) and quickly grew the company from $0 into a multimillion dollar revenue generating firm. As one of the pioneers in the movement to detect counterfeit components and clean up the supply chain, combined with a strong social media presence, SolTec achieved much notoriety in the industry during their 6 years in business.</p> <p>She has brought her accounts &amp; expertise over to North Shore Components, an industry-leader in the counterfeit detection &amp; avoidance movement with an ISO/IEC 17025 certified on-site test facility, OEM excess inventory in house, and AS6081, AS9120, and CCAP-101 certifications.</p> Read the Interview <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> I met Dawn at Shannon’s Business Acceleration Summit. Dawn is also a presenter at CEO Space. She’s gone from zero to 97 in about three seconds. Her sweet spot, Dawn, tell us a little bit about your background and why do you do this? What is it that you do? Tell us a little bit about that and why.</p> <p><strong>Dawn Gluskin:</strong> Sure. Thank you. Yes, I’m Dawn Gluskin, and my company is called Blissed Communications. I help entrepreneurs and nonprofits and leaders tell their stories that need to be heard in the world. I do this because it’s a really brilliant, powerful form of marketing. If you want to connect with the heart of your people, if you want to move people, if you want to impact people, you have to be a good storyteller. You have to be open and vulnerable. That is where all the connection and the magic happens. I teach this. I also work with people one on one to help them write their signature stories or website copy. All that good stuff. I also help them through their mindset and get to the heart of who they are. Sometimes, why people don’t tell their story is because either they don’t think they have a good one, they’re not interesting enough, nobody cares, or they’re scared to tell it, people are going to judge me, all that stuff as well.</p> <p>You, Hugh, asked how this got to be my message and my mission. That is actually a great story. I always knew I would be a writer when I grew up until the world convinced me I would never make any money doing that. So I went to school for business instead. That is what got me started in sales and marketing. I have been doing that in some capacity for the last 20 years. My journey took me accidentally into the fabulous ultra-sexy world of selling electronic components. I did that for 15 years. I was selling semiconductors to Fortune 500 companies. Made a lot of good money doing that. Started my own business. Went from zero to $3 million in revenue in our first two years. I always tell everyone I had five great years in that business. We were open for seven. Long, painful story short, ended up having to shut that business down. We lost a lot of money and couldn’t keep the doors open anymore. We had some government regulations come down that affected our bottom line. I went from zero to $3 million back to zero again. I carried a lot of shame around that. What’s next? I had to go back and work for one of my old competitors while I tried to get my life together. I realized two things. I was the same person who still achieved all of this stuff in the first place. Sometimes we have a failure happen, and we think all the good stuff we’ve ever done has been wiped out. I never wanted to sell electronic components when I grew up anyway. I wanted to write and to help people.</p> <p>So what ended up happening is I decided to write a blog post for <em>The Huffington Post</em>called “The Power of Owning Your Story.” The premise was either you own your story, or it owns you. What it owns you looks like is carrying around shame. I don’t want them to find this out about me because they will judge me, they won’t like me, they won’t want to hire me. I came out, I told my story, and two things happened. That weight, heaviness was lifted. The antidote to shame is vulnerability. It was no longer a burden. The other thing was people were reading it and thanking me for being vulnerable, “You inspired me to share my story. Can I hire you? I want you to help me write my story.” That’s how my new company was born.</p> <p>I realized there is a big need for that in the marketplace. People want to see more vulnerability, more authenticity. Stories are powerful. It is a way to make instant connection. I signed a five-figure contract from a blog post, which is unheard of typically. There are many meetings and things that have to take place to gain that level of trust. But stories connect that deeply. Here we are now. I am doing what I love, so that universal 2x4 over the head when I lost my business was actually a blessing in disguise. That is where I am now, and I love helping others tell their story. Everyone has their own version of that, their own signature story, that helps them connect.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is a powerful reframing. We let those situations define us, and those are really learning opportunities, aren’t they?</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Yeah. Yeah, everything is happening for us instead of to us. If you can take that on in your life, that simple statement, it’s really powerful. What’s the gift in this, I always ask. What is the gift? Why is this happening? What is the blessing here?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You said you didn’t want to sell electronic components when you grew up. That is one of the differences between men and women. Men never grow up. We define ourselves in funny ways, don’t we? I think you’re being transparent and being vulnerable with that story can in itself inspire a lot of people. You help people market by defining their language, building their story, building that whole image, that verbal image, to attract their market.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Yes. When people put themselves out there, whether it’s on their website, their copy, their message, their emails, their social media, a lot of times people- How do I say this? They don’t put their whole heart forward, their whole selves forward. What you end up seeing is some very boring, bland copy that doesn’t tell the story. It doesn’t give the readers any- Why do they care? They are afraid to come out and be who they are, or they don’t have the right words to say it. It’s all in their head. It makes perfect sense in here, and they try to put it out there, and it’s just not connecting. It’s not easy to do, especially when it’s your own story. You have lived your life for X amount of years, however long you have been on this Earth. There is a lot that has happened. How do I take that and put it into this, something that will make sense in my business? That is a challenge for people. But when you get that right, it really opens up everything.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Why do people feel like they can’t talk about their story? Why do they feel insecure about being able to share a story? Is it that they think they are putting too much attention on themselves? Why don’t people embrace this?</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> There are a few different things. One is putting attention on themselves. When it comes to sharing the highlights and big achievements and accomplishments, a lot of people are humble, so they don’t want to come across as bragging. They just feel uncomfortable about bragging themselves up. That is one thing that happens.</p> <p>Another thing is people put themselves in a box. There is a rulebook about what you are allowed to say, what you are supposed to say. Maybe a coach or a consultant, they have had some training about ten things of what not to do. We have all these rules in our life that become ingrained, so there is a lot of confusion around business and personal. Some people, the old school teaching is you keep them separate. They are two different things, and you don’t overlap them.</p> <p>There is a new paradigm in business where it all overlaps a little more, especially with social media. There is so much transparency going on. There is so much visibility. If you have a corporation and you have an oopsy-daisy, you can’t sweep that thing under the rug. You have to own it. You have to say how you learned, how you are going to be better because of it. That is a new way of doing business. People are used to doing business the old way, “Nobody cares about me. It’s just about the business,” but it’s all intertwined. Especially with the millennials coming up, they are all about transparency, all about, “Who am I spending my money with? Can I trust you? Are you going to do what you say you’ll do?” What better way to gain trust than by being open and by sharing your story?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is your story, and there is also the story of the value of the work that your charity is doing. We are talking to clergy, nonprofit leaders, community leaders, organization chairs, association chairs. We are talking about people who- In my experience, organizations are not really good about sharing their story about the impact that their work has. There is various kinds of stories that I’m thinking about. When you are raising money, you are talking about the value of what you’re doing and the programs you’re doing and why it’s important. But it’s also important to describe the impact of what we’re doing.</p> <p>Dawn Gluskin is an expert because of her experience in life, in telling, in helping people tell a story. What I’m hearing, and I’m not sure you’ve used these words, but I’m hearing you talk about how to create a compelling story that has impact on the listener. In a nonprofit world, we are talking about the impact that we have on people’s lives. Speak to that a little bit, would you?</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> That is a brilliant distinction. The story always has to be about a person. It could be about the movement. It could be about what’s possible in the future. I’ll give an example. You and I were together at a summit, the Business Acceleration Summit, this past week. They had a dinner where they always invite a nonprofit. The nonprofit they invited to this particular awards ceremony was the Children’s Hunger Project. Their mission is they collect and pack food and they give it out to the teachers for children for their schools to take home on the weekends. During the week, they get free lunch. On the weekends, they go home and are hungry all weekend. They started this program to make sure they have food on the weekends and during the summer so they are always fed.</p> <p>An example of what happens sometimes is a nonprofit might talk about the features of what they do. The features of what they do would be we collect food, we package it, we give it to teachers, and they pass it out. They are telling you the how of what happens. Inside of that, you might be like, “Okay, that’s a worthy cause. I want to get involved.” But if you want to bring it to the next level, you bring in the story part of it. You bring in what’s possible.</p> <p>They did a brilliant job of this. They showed a video at the dinner that was really good. They interviewed one of the teachers. What they said was they have 3,000 children who qualify for this program and who need food over the weekends, but they only currently have enough money and products to feed 1,500. They give the food to the teachers, and the teachers have to dish it out and decide who gets a meal this weekend. One of the teachers was talking about how heartbreaking it is and how one of the students came up to her and was crying when he found out he wasn’t going to get a package to take home that weekend. He was like, “But I need it. I’m not going to have any food all weekend.” She was in tears, and the whole room is in tears. It goes from collecting food and passing it out, to this is a real person. He is going home without food. Can you imagine going a whole weekend without food? That is the power of how you can show your people, connect with their heart of what you are really doing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is powerful. I do remember that. They are raising money, but they are not raising enough money. In a place like that, they need to be able to accelerate their level of impact to donors. I am thinking there is a number of places that stories could be important.</p> <p>I am going to toss it to my co-host Russell David Dennis. He is the good-looking one on the other side here. Russell, in Aurora, they put Denver on the map, Aurora, Colorado. Russell, you worked inside of a nonprofit for 11 years, I happen to know. You were the person that helped them source funding. As you’re hearing her talk about stories, it would occur to me that there is more than one place that we need to develop stories. What are some of the things that come to mind for you?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> The trouble with stories are they are kinda a double-edged sword because Dawn talked about mistakes. I’ve had challenges. Who hasn’t? But we get stuck in the stories of a bad experience, and we drag that around. We can tell ourselves these stories that stick with us even though they are no longer true. If we are stuck in the wrong story, we give off the wrong vibration.</p> <p>Here’s the thing. We are telling stories. Nonprofits, you are telling a story, whether that is consciously or unconsciously. What comes off unconsciously a lot of times is scarcity. We don’t want to sound like we don’t have any humility. We don’t want to brag. The fact is that nonprofit leaders of these organizations that are serving people are bringing all kinds of value out there. You’re not showing up with your hat in your hand. All of these catastrophes can turn into superpowers when you put them into perspective. When you talk about these catastrophes and they don’t have any power over you, people relate to you. Whoa, okay. It’s some Superman figure that is worth a billion dollars. That is not their experience. They can’t imagine being in that place. Where does that level of consciousness connect? Heroes are people who others can relate with. They can relate with, Hey, they’ve been down, they may be experiencing some of that right where they are at this moment. They are down, they are struggling, they are having a hard time. But you come back. Ordinary people overcome extraordinarily bad circumstances to become heroes. People fit into that story. They want to be a part of that. They want to relate to that. That’s how you make that connection, that emotional connection. Vulnerability is a part of that. Vulnerability, transparency, authenticity, they want to know that you’re real. People who can relate to you are gonna support you.</p> <p>It took a while to work its way back around, but relationships. Everything is based on relationships. Where there is any type- To be successful in any area of your life, you have to build good relationships. Where nonprofits are concerned, they tell a story of scarcity. They tell a story of hard times. They pull on the heartstrings. Yes, there is need out there, but when you go out there and your narrative is about, “You know what? We gotta have this money because I don’t want to lay these three people off in the back office. They’re really nice people,” what you’re doing is talking about what you need. The narrative needs to be on, “Hey, these are the people we’re serving. We are bringing massive value here. Here is how we are making a difference in the lives of people who started at Point A. We move them to Point B with your help. But to move them to Point C, we want to partner with you to do this.” What does partnering mean? It could mean writing a check, it could mean serving on a board, it could mean volunteering. It could mean any number of things. But you have to determine what that is and talk to people in a way that resonates with them. Find out what matters to them, and explain how you’re solving a problem for them or bringing them value. It’s not about you; it’s about all of these people that you’re serving and the people paying for those services. I gotta take in some air and get off my soapbox because my coffee’s getting cold.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Those are good points. Dawn, do you want to respond to that?</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Yeah, I think you made a lot of good points there. First, when you talked about sharing your story, some people, the double-edged sword, you say, there is the story that we have that’s in our head that is controlling us, the narrative of our life, the story of “I’m not good enough. I’ve only done this.” You’re right. It does put off a negative energy. We really have to heal our stories. That’s what I talked about in my blog: the power of owning your story. You either own it, or it owns you. When you just accept all of the things that have happened, they are just things that have happened. This happened in my life. If you go back in your life and you look backwards, you can almost see how it’s all meant to happen and how one thing leads to another. You get stronger. You get smarter. How can I leverage this? How can I turn my pain into passion, my mess into my message? When you do share your story, you want to come from a place of inspiration, of where you have done the healing. We are not telling stories like, “I want my sympathy. Feel sorry for me.” Telling our sob stories. Okay, why isn’t the money pouring in? It doesn’t quite work like that. But you can tell your failures or your mistakes or the things that have happened. This is how I healed from it. This is how I learned from it. People feel empowered from that. People feel your heart. This is why I called this “Connecting to the Heart” because that’s what stories do. We see ourselves in each other’s stories.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Dawn, what do you find is the toughest part of bringing somebody from that place where the story is not serving them to- You meet them, and it’s like, Wow, you are doing some crazy good stuff here. But you are having the conversation, and somehow they are just missing the incredible power that they have. How do you go about shifting them from that place where they might be stuck in that story to recognizing how remarkable they are and how they can actually communicate that in a way that resonates with other people?</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> I would usually do mindset work. Mindset in being that we all have beliefs running in the background, these programs that we have picked up on since we were children from our parents, our family, our teachers, the TV, advertisements. We get all these beliefs about ourselves. For women, with all the advertising about if you lose ten pounds, everyone is going to love you. You will be amazing. That program, because I’m not good enough, I’m not pretty enough, I’m not thin enough, everyone has their version of these programs that you have picked up. It’s really about reprogramming your own brain like reprogramming a computer. You have to put in good data. You have to rewrite it. I recommend journaling as a really good way. All of the things you want. I am powerful. I am enough. I am beautiful. Rewriting things until you believe it. Just every day, revisiting. When that voice comes up, not giving it power. The voice in your head is not who you are. You can just say, “The voice says I’m not good enough, but the truth is I am more than enough. I am a child of God. I am pure love,” whatever it is. You just rewrite them. Moment by moment, when you hear that negative thought coming up, you recreate it with a new thought. That works powerfully. It takes some time and commitment, but you can rewire your brain. Good stuff.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> How do you help people who are stuck? Russell and I deal with people every day who get stuck in a place. Your title “Own your story or it owns you.” That is a really good synopsis of how we all get there sometimes. What you did is have a conscious action to say, “No, that is not going to define me because what’s inside me defines me.” Not everybody has that ability to do that. When you find someone who has a compelling story but they need to have that kind of breakthrough, how do you help them find that?</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> I can talk about this now, how I lost a $3 million dollar company like it’s what I had for breakfast. I had a banana and a green juice, and I lost a $3 million dollar company. It’s easy to say now. But to be clear, at the time, it was incredibly painful. I lost all my money. I was in debt. I had to go work for a competitor, which is the biggest piece of humble pie you could possibly eat just so I could pay my bills. I had gone from being in<em>The New York Times</em> and on the cover of all these local magazines, a hero, to nothing. I felt like I lost a piece of my identity. I was broken. I did a lot of the suffering and the “Why me?” and “What did I do to deserve this?” and “Nobody is ever going to want to work with me.” I had peaked. I was 35 at the time. This is it. This is the best I’m going to get, and it’s now just downhill from here. That was all going on in my head just to be clear. It went on for a while. It took several months for me to get out of it.</p> <p>But what I did was I called in my support, my people, my angels, and had people reflect to me. “No, Dawn, you’re still an amazing human being. You’re still the person who created a $3 million dollar company at age 30.” They just reminded me who I was. Everyone needs that person or those people in their lives to be a mirror and to pick you up when you’re down and remind you of who you are. I think that’s important. I just did the work. To me, it’s journaling and meditation, taking care of my body physically, doing all that work. Sometimes we do get in a rut. And that’s okay. But don’t just stay there. Pull yourself out. Remember who you are, remember why you’re here on Earth and what you’re here to do and create. So that’s what I did.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. My dear, that is wisdom that is far past your years, your chronological years. That is very rare. A couple old guys here.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> There is an old soul in this body.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I see that. But you’re actually accessing it and using it and using it to influence other people. We are at the halfway point in our- We can talk all day on this stuff. I try to keep it under an hour.</p> <p>Let’s go back to the marketing piece. We have talked around it. I like to go back. Nonprofits, which is a stupid word, we are talking about instead for for-profit companies, for-purpose companies, social capital companies, charities.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> I like that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are a tax-exempt company. We must embrace business principles. One of them is marketing. There is this whole anti-business thinking that goes on because we start with this nonprofit thing, which we dumb down. We think scarcity when really there is abundance out there everywhere. It’s there. It’s there for us to utilize because it’s not about us. It’s about the vision. It’s about the good we’re doing. I do find that there is a lot of people that are having trouble making that transition. They are living in this scarcity mindset. Let’s go back to talking about the importance of marketing and the importance of having this language piece down.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Marketing is the vehicle that you are using to get your message out there. It’s how you go from the purpose, the passion that’s in your heart, and expressing it in a way that lands with the hearts of the people that you want to move and inspire and get on board. Like I was saying earlier, the #1 mistake I see people make—it happens in nonprofits and small businesses, too—is where people talk about the features instead of the benefits. The features is we are going to take your money and buy this, and this, and this with it. This is what we do. It’s important information. I’m not saying people don’t need to know that, but what moves people is the benefits. How is your donation of time or money going to help us change the world together? How are we going to impact these lives together?</p> <p>Using specific examples, the little boy who goes hungry every weekend when he doesn’t get his box of food, that will inspire someone to open up their wallet and pay and donate or give up some of their time on the weekend and help package those boxes. Your marketing message really needs to be about painting the picture of tomorrow, a better tomorrow, a better future. How are we going to make this planet better? You have to empower the donator, empower the person you’re talking to, and reach their heart. Say you make a difference. By you opening up your wallet or by you donating this time, this is the effect it will have. We will feed 10 kids this weekend who would normally be starving until Monday morning. You will make a difference in their lives. You have to bring it home for them, make it real. That is what storytelling does.</p> <p>There is a saying that data tells and story sells. The reason story sells is because stories go to the heart. It paints a picture, you can see it in your mind. It’s almost like you are taking that money and its’ going straight to the little boy. Otherwise it’s like I give the money to you, and hopefully you’ll do right with it. You have to show them, show them your heart, show them what’s possible. That’s powerful marketing. It’s truthful marketing, too. There is no gimmick. It’s just speaking truth.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Do you work with people in a done-for-you work style, or do you teach people how to do it, or both?</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> I do both. I have digital programs that will teach you how. I actually have a free offering on my website that is called Brand Story Mastery. It walks you through the steps of telling your powerful brand story. You can go to BlissedCommunications.com and download that for free. Then I have other levels. I also have one on one. A lot of times, people ask me to write stuff for them. I don’t like writing; it’s so hard. Can you do that for me? We do that as well.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I have heard testimonies about the work that you have done for people at the conference where we were last week. Shannon was talking about how powerful your story was to help get the message across. Because it was a good story, it was picked up by more media. That is the other piece. We don’t really know how to do things. What Russell and I try to do is we try to convince leaders, no matter where they are, to hire someone who is better than them who can get the job done. It’s hard getting over the hump of we are spending money we don’t have. No, you’re investing in a process to generate more capital. So speak to that. The story, we have talked around that, too. The impact of that story. As I am thinking back over specific situations, I have worked with charities who have hundreds of stories. They have not written up a one of them.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> They are sitting on a gold mine.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> They are. It’s BlissedCommunications.com. I am guessing your blog is there, too.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> They go there, and they can get the whole thing. There is a problem here that we’re addressing. There is a system missing. Yes, it’s a marketing system, but it’s also- We’re sharing the impact of our work with people who could make a difference. We are creating a legacy in doing this work. We would like this legacy to go on- I’m a founder of a nonprofit. I’d like it to go on past my lifetime. It’s to everybody’s benefit that we tell the story. Let’s talk about systemically. The program that you have for free, could a nonprofit leader, if they wanted to get some board members or some volunteers to be the primary writers, is that a head start for them to get their head around the way they can write and what they could write about?</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Yes, absolutely. I really try to simplify the process. You don’t have to be a writer. You don’t have to be a good writer to do this process. I call it the Three C’s of Storytelling. The first C is Clarity. The second C is Creativity. The third C is Connecting, connecting the dots. With clarity, you want to know exactly who you are talking to. Who is your ideal client? I say that when working with business, but who is your ideal volunteer or donor? Who are they? What gets them excited? What are they passionate about? What keeps them up at night? You really want to know who you are talking to because that makes all the difference. When you write copy, you want it to be like when the person is reading it, they are like, “How did you get in my head?” That’s how you know you have done the right copy.</p> <p>Another mistake that I talk about that I see happens a lot is people are too generic, too vanilla, whatever you want to call it because they want to talk to everybody. We don’t want to exclude everybody. I don’t want to just talk to moms and business owners; I want everybody to be my customer or to be a part of this. For some companies ,that might be true. But usually it’s not. Usually you want to hone in on who is the most powerful, impactful person to connect with your organization. That is who you are talking to. Naturally, you will pick out some other people outside of that. What happens when you are talking to everybody, you are talking to nobody. Nobody is so moved, wondering how you got in your head and are reading their mind or is so moved. You want to inspire people that way. You won’t be for everyone, and that’s okay. Being really clear about who that person is.</p> <p>Being clear on why. What is your why? Why do you care so much about this? Nonprofit leaders especially. It’s grueling work trying to get up and running. It takes a lot of time, money, and effort. You don’t always see the results right away, so why would anyone want to do that? Because you want to better the world. You want to better humanity. Expressing that is super important.</p> <p>Also being clear on why you. Why do you do it differently? Why are you the one to lead this movement, lead the charge? You want to express that, too. So being clear on what I call all the foundational pieces of messaging.</p> <p>Once you have that clarity piece, then you can move to the creative piece. The creative piece is, “Okay, what stories can you tell?” Whether it’s your own personal story of why you started the nonprofit, whether it’s the stories of the lives you have affected, the before and the after, the person who was living on the street, worked with you, and now has a house and a job, whatever it is, that creativity. Compiling a list of stories.</p> <p>Then connecting the dots. Putting it all together. What stories can I tell that make sense that connect with this audience and move this mission?</p> <p>There is some finesse. I walk everyone through it. That’s really it. That’s how you simplify it. The biggest piece that people miss the mark on is the clarity piece. Who are you talking to? Why you? What do you do differently? If you can nail that part of it, the rest falls into place.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Dawn, if that was easy, everybody would be doing it. They need to have- I needed guidance for that type of stuff for myself in shaping my business, reshaping it. I am still doing some reshaping because there are things I need to do. A lot of times we don’t know what we don’t know. With nonprofit leaders, people look at several bottom lines. What are the outcomes that people are having, that ultimate impact? What are you spending? The majority of that work is not gonna fit neatly on an income statement. It just doesn’t.</p> <p>Storytelling can become a big piece of how you measure what’s going on. The best people to have tell stories are the ones who are getting the services. I start it here, I was working with this foundation. After a couple of years, I am in this different place. That is really powerful. That movement, this is the thing you’re not going to get looking at a report. Real human beings. This work that Hugh mentioned that I did was with a Native American tribe. You get people that walk in and they might walk in for one thing. Having gotten to know the families, it’s almost like I know where all the bones are buried. There is not a number in front of me; there is a person who I have gotten to know personally. You understand that. That connection is powerful in making sure that your donors and other supporters understand that.</p> <p>What’s important to them? Tell that story. I’m not everybody’s flavor. I know other people, and there are other people who are a better fit. This is where collaboration can be very important. in terms of collaborating or building collaborations, you probably run into people that you work with, who you told stories, and crossed your mind that, “These guys are doing the same thing that these other folks across town are doing. Maybe there is some synergy.” Have you found yourself in some situations like that? What things come to mind when you think of those types of situations?</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Oh yeah. I am big on collaboration. That is what they teach at the Business Acceleration Summit and where Hugh is right now at CEO Space. It’s all about collaboration. We are really moving as the human species away from the competitive model into the collaborative model. It’s one earth. It’s one human species. There is really no competition anyway. We are all here to cause something, whether you are in a for-profit business or running a social business, as Hugh calls it. We all have a reason, a purpose, a passion. You can always connect with other people to help bring that mission further, when you take the ego out of it. What’s best for humanity? What’s best for the bottom line? Whether you are a for-profit or a nonprofit, you have payroll, so you have to make sure it’s the best for the bottom line. We are better together. When the synergy is right, it’s good to collaborate. That happens all the time. I love connecting people. You need to meet so-and-so. It might be a great fit. I love to see projects take off from introductions like that. I love collaborating with others, too. I do storytelling, so I have partnerships with people who do visual branding. They do logos and websites and things of that nature, and I do the brand messaging. That’s a good fit. We pass clients to each other. But any nonprofit who Is listening to this, there might be potential in that. If you think outside of the box, instead of trying to do it all yourself, how can you collaborate and be better together and make both missions go further? It’s a great way to look at the world. Opportunities pop up when you ask for it. One of my daily prayers is, “Please guide me to the people, places, and things who will help me grow into my best self and help me be of service.” People just keep popping up in my world. Like Hugh and many other wonderful people. It’s beautiful.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I got myself mixed up with Hugh. Next thing, I’m all mixed up with Shannon. There is a cast of characters in there. Haven’t been the same since.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Like attracts like. We are all in the same game.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> So intense, Russell. You gotta really count your blessings.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> My blessings are coming at a rate of speed that I gotta get my calculator out.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> That’s a good problem to have.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> When you drop the abacus and pick up the calculator, then you know you are moving in the right direction.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> You’re doing something right, yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s too much for my age and mental condition, Russ.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You know what I have to say. Reminding people how long you have been around. Most of the people watching this broadcast probably won’t know-</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> I know what an abacus is. They still use them at my daughter’s Montessori school. They have an abacus in her classroom.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There is a fantastic school. That is a wonderful model. In fact, I have a friend here who is looking at creating a Montessori school that is different than anything. The education system is another rant for another program.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Montessori is a great model. Love it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a lot of themes that we have touched on here. We are coming into the last part of our interview. There is a place where people can step up their performance level here. It’s for a number of reasons. It’s not just for funding. You have already pointed that out. We want board members. We want volunteers. We want to get press for what we do. I mourn at the good amount of work that charities are doing and they are not publicizing it. Part of our job, Russell, is to help people create the space so they feel like they have time to do it and/or be able to delegate it out. That is the bottom line. Find somebody in the organization that manages publicity/PR/communications. Maybe we need a corporate storyteller inside of our organization.</p> <p>Russell, we got another couple of questions before we round out this really interesting interview. What are you thinking? What do you want to ask her to share with us at this point?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Well, I think that it’s really powerful to tell stories. When you create a culture of storytelling, I’ll just ask Dawn if that makes any sense. How do you create a culture of storytelling so that you get other people talking about it? That is where the juice is. That is where the power is. This is what makes businesses want to get involved because your work is so good that other people are recommending you and telling stories. How do you create that kind of a culture so that people just step into it? “Oh, this is just how we roll.”</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Just a real simple answer that is actually super powerful. Just ask. I think sometimes we forget to just ask. Whether it’s for testimonials or share your experience, we just think, Well, if they wanted to share, they would. I don’t want to bother them. If they want to share, they’ll do it. That is not always the case. People have good hearts and good intentions, but they are busy. They have a lot of stuff going on. But if you express how much it means to you, “It would mean a lot to our organization. We helped you. We supported you. We helped you get from A to B. if you could just share a piece of your story, if you could put a testimonial on our website,” whatever it is, “that would mean so much. You doing that, we are going to be able to help so many other people.” That simple ask is really powerful. People will do it if you ask them. That’s the easy answer.</p> <p>If you want to get a little fancier, you could build some sort of incentive around it. Contests. You can have people on Instagram post a picture or do hashtags and run contests where people have prizes and there are sponsors. You can get fancier with it and get buzz going that way. But the simple answer is to just ask. Tell people, “Hey, if you do this, just by you sharing your story, you will help 10 other people or 100 other people.” There is a lot of power in asking. Don’t dismiss that because it sounds too easy. It really is that easy.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Speaking of Instagram, now that you have brought it up... [holds up iPad]</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> What is that?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I have shamelessly quoted you on Instagram. “Own your story or it will own you.”</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> You’re quick. That was good. You have skills. He is creating memes while we are talking. What is your Instagram? I have to make sure I am following.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Dawn?</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Yes, sir?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are having some technical issues on my side. The Wi-Fi drops out every now and then. You’re saying to ask people. I find people need a template, some sort of format. We are writing our story, are there suggested- There is a piece of music. There is a form. You have your theme, your variations, come back to your theme. In a piece of art, you see the form. Is there a form piece for your story? You also ask for testimonies. Do you need to give people guidelines? We want them to talk about results. That is not normal for people to think that way.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> That’s a great question. This is what I do. I try to make it as easy as possible for people. Maybe they wrote an email praising our work together. Maybe inside a conversation, they said something to me, “Since working with you, I doubled my income.” When people say stuff like that to you, write it down, or ask on the spot, “Wow, that’s amazing. Do you mind if I use that as a testimonial? Say I’ll write it for you and send it to you, and all you have to do is approve it, and we will put it on the website,” or whatever it is. Maybe you can go back in your emails, and you might have stories from people for the last year or two years or six months. You can start pulling those out and follow up, “You shared this amazing story with us. Do you mind if we share it with our people? Do you mind sharing it publicly?” You can help them in that way.</p> <p>If you are looking for a template, some simple questions to ask are, “What was life before we started working together? What were you suffering with? What were you struggling with?” “What was it like working together?” “What is life like now?” That is the simplest format. Before, during, after. Before we got together, my life was hopeless. I was living on the streets, blah, blah, blah. Now all my dreams are coming true. That simple template so people can see the before and the after, that’s as easy as it gets. If you can do the work for people, email it to them, get their approval. That is the easiest way.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is popular with quotes for books as well.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Make it easy for people. People want to help you, but sometimes you have to make it easy for them if you want to get the most help.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Are you hearing me?</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We gotta let you have a last word in this interview. You have given us tons of perspective-changing, useful information on how to proceed. I want to ask you- BlissedCommunications.com is your website. We are going to let you have the last word and give people a final thought, a tip, a challenge.</p> <p>Dawn, this has been really informative for me. Russell, I don’t know about you, but when I hear guests like this giving us best practices, I go back to myself and think about, Here is a place I need to upgrade. What about you?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s always about upgrading. It’s always about learning. I always have things I am talking to people. You have heard me say before, and I have been doing a lot more purposeful networking and getting mixed in with people in the city. I have met a lot of people over the last month. I am often fond of saying, When I am in a room and I look around, it occurs to me that if I’m the smartest guy in the room, I run like hell and find another room. There is just so much genius out there. Everybody is unique and have their own unique gifts. I can learn so much. The more that I learn, the more that I have to share. We circulate this. By obeying the law of circulation, we are giving and receiving, we are growing and expanding. That is really the way to go. Everybody’s done a story, but how do you tell it? Having somebody that can help you shape that story, that is your mojo. That is your mojo because you start telling it, you get good with it, and it just becomes like gold.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> Yeah. My final words and advice for people: stay visible. If you’re the best kept secret, all the heart in the world, people can’t help you. Get your message out there daily. Whether you use social media or email, or you could be saying to use snail mail, it is making a comeback. The emails get so clogged up. Writing blogs and articles, get yourself out there, do videos, podcasts. Be visible. Keep talking until you are tired of hearing your own voice. People will connect with your message.</p> <p>If you want a challenge, a challenge would be one of two things. Share your personal story of why you started your nonprofit. What makes you mad in the world so much so that you had to start a nonprofit to solve this problem? Talk about that. Let your passion and emotion come out in that. People will connect with that.</p> <p>Another idea is to tell the story of someone whose life you affected, the before and after, and what it’s like. Let the emotion flow. Share it with your people. They will love you for it. If you need help with all of that, you can definitely reach out to me, and I’d be happy to support you. I am Dawn Gluskin. I am the only one. Blissed Communications is my website. Let’s connect. Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a great invitation. Thank you for the value that you brought to our listeners. Thank you for being here today.</p> <p><strong>Dawn:</strong> My pleasure. Thank you, guys.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Bringing Meditation Into Schools, Companies, and Large Organizations</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/bringing-meditation-into-schools-companies-and-large-organizations</link>
      <description>Ellie Shojais an award-winning Writer, Producer, and Motivational Speaker. She is the founder of Peace Unleashed, a personal transformation company that focuses on helping individuals and groups level up holistically. The Peace Unleashed philosophy is rooted in the understanding that teams are more efficient and companies more productive when individual members attain a level of internal peace and groundedness that remains unshaken by life events.
 There is a reason many high-profile individuals and thought leaders of our time from every industry are advocating meditation. It's not an accident that many companies from Apple and Google to the FBI are encouraging their employees to participate in meditation.
 The benefits we receive by meditating even for a few minutes per day are many and result in surprising side effects such as improved communication skills, increased productivity, the ability to make connections more easily and solve problems more efficiently, improved sleep, and even the ability to replace old habits with new ones with more ease.
 There is no doubt that the simple act of meditation can literally change a person's life for the better, yet most people don't meditate. The greatest objections we receive about meditation include statements such as, "My brain is not made for that," "I can't stop my thoughts," and "I don't have time to sit and do nothing."
 The fact is that meditation does not require a quieting of the mind though it can result in that, and it is also far from a passive activity. Meditation is the simple and active observation of the mind. Once we become aware of the the fact that we are thinking our thoughts, our thoughts stop thinking us. And in that lies our true power as a human being. When we retrain ourselves to recognize that we are thinking, we then can identify which thoughts are not serving us and replace them with thoughts that do serve our greater good.
 This is what meditation does. It is a focusing of the mind and a training of the mind, so that we can live actively rather than reactively.
 Links:
 Website: peaceunleashed.com Unleash Your Peace Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/unleash-your-peace/id1414183580?mt=2     Peace Unleashed Blog https://peaceunleashed.com/blog/ Peace Unleashed Instagram  https://www.instagram.com/peaceunleashed/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2019 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7b12b3ea-b329-11eb-9f0f-a3a6f2b215ef/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Ellie Shoja Shares Here Secrets to Success</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Ellie Shojais an award-winning Writer, Producer, and Motivational Speaker. She is the founder of Peace Unleashed, a personal transformation company that focuses on helping individuals and groups level up holistically. The Peace Unleashed philosophy is rooted in the understanding that teams are more efficient and companies more productive when individual members attain a level of internal peace and groundedness that remains unshaken by life events.
 There is a reason many high-profile individuals and thought leaders of our time from every industry are advocating meditation. It's not an accident that many companies from Apple and Google to the FBI are encouraging their employees to participate in meditation.
 The benefits we receive by meditating even for a few minutes per day are many and result in surprising side effects such as improved communication skills, increased productivity, the ability to make connections more easily and solve problems more efficiently, improved sleep, and even the ability to replace old habits with new ones with more ease.
 There is no doubt that the simple act of meditation can literally change a person's life for the better, yet most people don't meditate. The greatest objections we receive about meditation include statements such as, "My brain is not made for that," "I can't stop my thoughts," and "I don't have time to sit and do nothing."
 The fact is that meditation does not require a quieting of the mind though it can result in that, and it is also far from a passive activity. Meditation is the simple and active observation of the mind. Once we become aware of the the fact that we are thinking our thoughts, our thoughts stop thinking us. And in that lies our true power as a human being. When we retrain ourselves to recognize that we are thinking, we then can identify which thoughts are not serving us and replace them with thoughts that do serve our greater good.
 This is what meditation does. It is a focusing of the mind and a training of the mind, so that we can live actively rather than reactively.
 Links:
 Website: peaceunleashed.com Unleash Your Peace Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/unleash-your-peace/id1414183580?mt=2     Peace Unleashed Blog https://peaceunleashed.com/blog/ Peace Unleashed Instagram  https://www.instagram.com/peaceunleashed/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Ellie Shoja</strong>is an award-winning Writer, Producer, and Motivational Speaker. She is the founder of Peace Unleashed, a personal transformation company that focuses on helping individuals and groups level up holistically. The Peace Unleashed philosophy is rooted in the understanding that teams are more efficient and companies more productive when individual members attain a level of internal peace and groundedness that remains unshaken by life events.</p> <p>There is a reason many high-profile individuals and thought leaders of our time from every industry are advocating meditation. It's not an accident that many companies from Apple and Google to the FBI are encouraging their employees to participate in meditation.</p> <p>The benefits we receive by meditating even for a few minutes per day are many and result in surprising side effects such as improved communication skills, increased productivity, the ability to make connections more easily and solve problems more efficiently, improved sleep, and even the ability to replace old habits with new ones with more ease.</p> <p>There is no doubt that the simple act of meditation can literally change a person's life for the better, yet most people don't meditate. The greatest objections we receive about meditation include statements such as, "My brain is not made for that," "I can't stop my thoughts," and "I don't have time to sit and do nothing."</p> <p>The fact is that meditation does not require a quieting of the mind though it can result in that, and it is also far from a passive activity. Meditation is the simple and active observation of the mind. Once we become aware of the the fact that we are thinking our thoughts, our thoughts stop thinking us. And in that lies our true power as a human being. When we retrain ourselves to recognize that we are thinking, we then can identify which thoughts are not serving us and replace them with thoughts that do serve our greater good.</p> <p>This is what meditation does. It is a focusing of the mind and a training of the mind, so that we can live actively rather than reactively.</p> <p><strong>Links:</strong></p> <p>Website: peaceunleashed.com Unleash Your Peace Podcast <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/unleash-your-peace/id1414183580?mt=2">https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/unleash-your-peace/id1414183580?mt=2   </a><br>  Peace Unleashed Blog <a href="https://peaceunleashed.com/blog/">https://peaceunleashed.com/blog/</a><br> Peace Unleashed Instagram  <a href="https://www.instagram.com/peaceunleashed/">https://www.instagram.com/peaceunleashed/</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3157</itunes:duration>
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      <title>What is missing for Nonprofits to attract Millenials and GenZ generation?</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/what-is-missing-for-nonprofits-to-attract-millenials-and-genz-generation</link>
      <description>Why Millenials and GenZ are disconnected with nonprofits today?
 Pradeep Kandimalla, Founder and Chief Executive of SAHAVE™ is so passionate about social change he has dedicated his life to serving others. Spending twenty years in the nonprofit world and witnessing their struggles to fulfill their missions spurred him to build The Platform for Social Change to bring about social change worldwide. Not only does SAHAVE keep him hopping, his beautiful daughters keep him busy as well. Oh, and mom has high expectations for him too.  Ever since watching “Schindlers List,” a significant impact has been made on his career and inspired a mission to work towards a greater good around worldwide. He has been working on and refining the concept of SAHAVE since 2015 and now it is time to make this disruptive technology that is going to shift how nonprofit and communities can come together to provide service, available to the future world. 
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s another Tuesday with Hugh and Russell. As you expect, we have a guest who has profound knowledge for you. A great vision. He is a modest man, but he has a big heart and a big vision. Russell David Dennis, from Denver, around Denver, you’re not actually in Denver. You’re in those big old Rocky Mountains. How are you, sir?
 Russell Dennis: Hey, I’m out here in Aurora, a stone’s throw from Denver, Colorado. Today, our guest is a man who has come up with a way to help us engage with one another better. Pradeep Kandimalla, welcome, and thank you for joining us. He is the founder of Sahave. Pradeep, tell us a little bit about yourself.  
 Pradeep Kandimalla: Thank you. It was a great introduction. It’s been a year that I met Hugh. Learning every time I meet him. Thank you. I’m an electronics engineer with a background of technology. As part of my project for my Bachelor’s, I did an affordable electronic device, a PC. I did a Masters in Business Administration, specialized in operations management from the University of Central Oklahoma, mainly focusing on sciences, how applications can be tailored to usage and businesses around us. That was my focus. For the last 25 years, I was working in the packing industry, implementing enterprise planning operations systems for public sector, private sector, nonprofit sector, multi-million-dollar projects, managing different levels of themes from technology to operations. That is my background.
 Russell: What people don’t know about is that you have a real love for social change. You have managed to marry your passion for technology with your passion for social change to make a big difference. You created something called Sahave. It is a place for people to come together and connect and make a difference. Tell me about Sahave, what it is and why you started it.
 Pradeep: The meaning of it. Saha in Sanskrit means “community coming together for service.” English word – we. I mixed these two words together. I had a dream ever since I watched Schindler’s List. When I saw Oscar Schindler save lives during World War II by doing business- in my view, he is the first social entrepreneur making an impact in community during a crisis. That is how I view that movie. It made a significant impact on me. Ever since that day, it was my intention to use my skills to build something for the benefit of community. Out of that desire and passion that I have been working with nonprofits at ground level who serve communities. They suffer a lot with technology. There is no one to help them. I have noticed that, and I have tried to provide solutions in many ways in my volunteering space for them. I couldn’t get them what I think as an operational head, it’s not everything. That’s how I started Sahave as a social enterprise, actively developing a benefit corporation. It’s a nonprofit, a benefit corporation, what I am developing Sahave as. It’s been two years now. We officially started in January 2017. That was a journey since then. It’s been two years in creating this social enterprise.
 Russell: You said something that’s really important. I don’t know how many of us that work in the nonprofit field think about this, but this saves lives. The work that nonprofits do, it’s life-saving in a lot of instances. That is no small thing. This platform that you created with a space to connect hearts and minds, I will be telling you folks how to get connected, it’s something that we have seen that’s so marvelous that we want to get that out there to everybody so you have a chance to use it.
 In particular, this platform helps us to engage with millennials and Gen Z folks. There are a lot of differences in the way that boomers like Hugh and myself think about nonprofits and the way that millennials and Gen Z, younger people, think about nonprofits and think about making a difference. What is your experience, Pradeep, with engaging with millennials and Gen Zs? How has that been?
 Pradeep: That’s a nice question. My focus with Sahave is to get the service model built in within our next generation, to be part of charities. As part of it, Sahave’s mission is two-fold. One is to mobilize a social movement to change lives and enable that social movement with a cloud-based global platform for communities to thrive. These are the two things coming together. The movement is first, and enabling that movement with support is very important with millennials and Gen Zs.
 If you think of empathy as a big thing that is required for charity or any kind of service, before millennials, empathy was naturally built into humans in previous generations because we have faced hunger. We know what hunger is. We have seen different cycles in our lives. World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War. Name any war. We have seen the Iran War, Iraq War, different cycles in our lives. We built that empathy naturally. Today, if you look at charity organizations, 90% of them are run by people older than 40-50. That natural empathy in them has created those charity organizations that support our communities at the local level that governments cannot do through social services. We definitely need to try and spread these charities even for our future generations. We need to have the next generation leadership come on board, continue our legacy of services that people today are doing in the community. That is key. We need to make an impact on millennials and Gen Zs and teach them in their way how to provide service and build an empathy in them. They still have empathy, but their nature of empathy triggers a different way than ours. Before millennials, it was a natural empathy; there is no trigger required. Millennials are more socially inclined, but empathy needs some kind of trigger in every moment. That is what this two-fold mission of Sahave is intended to build: to create a movement with a system that enables it together.
 Russell: Where is it that some of us in the older generation, as time has passed we sort of lost our ability to connect, to pass on that empathy? Are there some language differences or some thought differences that have hindered our ability to pass that on and make that connection?
 Pradeep: I wouldn’t put it that way. We did pass on that connection. They still have empathy. But the trigger points are different. Their thinking mindset. For everything, they look at real time. The impact has to be transparent to them in what they are creating. It wasn’t a need for us before. If we just know somewhere in the world something is happening, we know naturally, “Sorry, man, let’s do something,” even though we aren’t expecting that transparency. With millennials and Gen Zs, they do have this empathy, but the empathy requires a different kind of trigger. Transparency is key for them. Without transparency, they don’t feel the impact of the creator. They don’t see a next time to do the same service. For us, it was totally different. We just do the service. Forget about transparency and accountability, what we have handed over to somebody else.
 Russell: What are some of the ways that Sahave helps us to do that?
 Pradeep: Very good question. Sahave is a platform that we are building. It is a technology that is pending right now. Couple of principles I would say there. My intention to create Sahave is to provide cutting-edge technology at low cost for nonprofit organizations for operations, to focus their mission, to maximize their impact with their donor base. Luckily, today’s technology has provided that advantage because the new way to develop an enterprise application is disruptive right now. Think about transportation services right now. It has disrupted the way technology has enabled us. These apps are connecting individual to individual for low cost. Very efficiently providing the services. Sahave is a service platform enabling individuals. People come together to help each other save lives with that disruptive technology and innovation we have built. Just building a technology is not good enough. With my experience and seven years of research and working with millennials to understand their need to be part of some movement. That is why our first part of the mission is creating a movement that enables the heart to do service, and then give them support to strengthen their movement with technology, which brings us transparency and is low cost for nonprofits to operate this platform.
 Russell: It’s not always easy to bring the mind and technology together like that. You’ve been at this for a while. What has kept you motivated to bring this movement together with technology over such a long period of time?
 Pradeep: It’s 25 years. Oskar Schindler has made a significant impact on me. The way he created a for-profit business manufacturing with cheap labor during World War II- cheap labor was Jews in camps. He created that selling to Germans. Doing that, he saved lives. He learned that. Initially, when he started the business, he didn’t know that. When he went through the process, he learned he was saving lives. Bringing bribes to the German army to get cheap labor on board, he was thinking he was making profit. He never counted how much bribes he was giving out. He lost all his fortune. In 1945, after World War II ended, he saved about 200 lives. He said, “I wish I would have made more money to save more lives.” He lost all his fortune. He was a rich person at that time.
 What he said at the end, I wish I had more money to save more lives, has created in my mindset every impact has to be multiplied. It’s not like every charity is suffering with donations. It’s just like if you think as an individual, charities are living paycheck to paycheck on a monthly basis from donors. If they don’t have a paycheck that month, their services are dying. We need to create a platform that enables nonprofits to fight against the social issues that are ever growing for us: poverty, hunger. Name any social issue that is growing. Charities are only doing a miniscule part of it today. My goal is to minimize that and strengthen nonprofits as part of this platform. That is the reason we are creating it as a benefit corporation, which is to give back while creating an impact in our platform. This enables nonprofits to sustain even longer.
 Russell: It’s about sustainability. What we are talking about is social profit. It can’t always be measured in terms of dollars. It’s measured in other terms, but shifts in humans lives. I commend you for that. Nonprofit is a term that can be misunderstood. I think people have the misconception that nonprofit means you don’t make any money or have any extra money. A good friend of ours points out that nonprofit is a tax status, not a business strategy. Making a difference is what it’s all about. I think that nonprofits and philanthropy is there because they are just certain things your ordinary profit-making enterprises and the government aren’t set up to do. It’s that place where everything is married together so that it can actually go out and make a difference. I find that our problems are so complex now that it takes all hands on deck. Social benefit organizations are that fourth thing: the nonprofits were the third sector for a while. It’s that fourth piece that has come in to fill the gaps.
 In your journey, as you were putting it together, tell us a little bit about how you came to the decision to create a benefit corporation, how you came to the conclusion that this was the right structure to use in order to make this difference.
 Pradeep: Excellent. One of the major problems with nonprofits today is they are faced with local rules and regulations. Every country and state is different. Having a global nonprofit organization, even Red Cross is not a global entity. If you look at American Red Cross, it is a separate entity from Indian Red Cross. They have to be defined in their jurisdictions and play according to the rules and regulations of that separate entity. That is the first challenge I was thinking about when I created Sahave. I can’t be global. This should be global. My vision is to connect people to save lives. It doesn’t matter. We are a global community, a global economy, globally connected on platforms. We know Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, Google. It’s all global. Humans are connected well. Sahave should also be a movement globally making an impact and connecting. With that intention, I created this as a for-profit.
 I had to make stakeholders of Sahave to be aligned with our mission and vision. Every for-profit organization has a for-profit motive for stakeholders. Keeping the mission and vision as they come on board is very important for me. I don’t want them to be deviating from our mission and vision in the eyes of making profit. People first, and then profit following. That was my intention in creating benefit corporation. I have been studying this for the last three years. I was lucky enough to get a partner like Kings Council and Cross Foundation who knows how to set up a benefit corporation. I was looking for somebody to develop it, keeping this mode of people first and profit next. If I have that as part of the DNA, it’s a success for me. That was the intention.
 Russell: That is the power of the form and why I think it’s taken hold. Social profit is about people as well as materials and money to solve problems. This is disruptive. I think of Airbnb. I think of Uber. Now we have Sahave, here in place to help make a difference and help us connect with one another in ways we weren’t able to, and providing us an opportunity to be more global in our approach to things. That is something.
 Hugh: Hey Russ, let’s spell that to make sure people get to the right website. Sahave. Thank you. There is a lot of information on that website. Sahave.org.
 Russell: It’s a great place to go. We want to help bring this to people, help people find this, enroll in it, use it. That is the best way to get a feel for it. It’s just a wonderful platform for people to come together.
 Prior to your building this platform, what is it that is missing for your typical nonprofit to attract millennials and Gen Z workers or supporters?
 Pradeep: As you mentioned, without money, there is no operations. That is a big issue with millennials. They should see the money there. What you mentioned about charity organizations as a third sector today, they don’t see that money. That was a primary factor for them: getting attracted to other for-profit organizations. With what we have created on this platform is we created our own currency, which is called Kindness Currency. It’s our trademark. There is a way somebody can exchange kindness within them with some other person right next to them and earn Kindness. It all goes back to karma. What you give is what you get back. Here, with Kindness currency, you are measuring your own social impact in the community. The person, every individual, millennials are looking for that feeling in them. How do I measure my kindness that I have done and the impact I created? With that intention is why we have created Kindness Currency, which gives them an opportunity to exchange kindness with anybody, neighbor helping neighbor. That neighbor doesn’t have to help that neighbor back. They can help others. It’s a pass-on method. It allows them to build that kind of social impact without using money, using your time that you’re giving to kindness. For example, in yoga, you don’t calculate time. The life of a person is in terms of number of breaths. You could take in one second three breaths, and then you could take one breath. A person has the number of breaths defined when they are born. Kindness should connect to that because that is what is directly connecting the time in your life with materialistic life, what we are doing today. As a platform, Sahave is getting you back as a human within you doing service to each other.
 Russell: That has been a challenge for nonprofits to try to measure that impact. Social profit is a term that the author David Grant came up with when he wrote a book about it. Hugh talks about what we call return on life. I call it return on influence, return on impact to stay in the ROI frame. There are a lot of nonprofits that have difficulty framing that and showing that impact. It looks like Sahave is a vehicle for helping us to measure impact beyond dollars and cents, which is the biggest challenge for nonprofits. Am I on track? What do you think of that?
 Pradeep: You are perfectly on track. Humanity coming out of heart is perfect for Sahave because that is how you can create charity in community. That is the movement. Sahave is creating within every individual to have that kind of feeling at every moment making it real time for them. It’s key for the next generation.
 Russell: Our primary problem I would surmise has been communication. What would you say are the most common barriers to communication between the generations?
 Pradeep: Communication is a big thing. As long as we have existed as humans, we have had this problem. Every generation thinks differently. It’s tough to put ourselves into their mindset. When we have defined our own lifestyle in certain ways and never previous generations, the majority of them, they don’t focus on changing themselves looking in the future. I’m saying just the majority of them, not everyone. There is still a population of that generation knowing what’s important to learn. That transformation is always happening between industrial revolutions from generation one to two, two to three, three to four. We have made certain changes in our community. From ground level to government level. It’s a continuous learning process. My feeling when it comes to communications. That gap will happen only when someone can peek into others’ hearts with their view.
 Russell: It’s a question of being open to a different point of view. What are some ways that we could do that today? There are a lot of different nonprofit leaders listening to this. Some are older. They’re my age and Hugh’s age. What are two or three things that you would tell a baby boomer that she/he could do that would help shift them in the direction of being more effective at communicating and connecting with millennials?
 Pradeep: I’m in your shoes, Russell, when I started this journey. I identified this problem. I started going to interacting with them. What does their mindset look like? They are more gamers. We know that. But at the same time, if you get involved with them and play a game, you will learn their behavior in that game. They are naturally connected to that game. Our generation, we just see it as a thing. We never connect ourselves to that, but they do. They even change their mindset based on that. They think everything else outside is the same. Getting them to their natural instinct is difficult. If we can tap into their mindset and understand why they are not doing that, and if they intend to do something, for example a charity or a donation, a dollar donation to homeless-
 We just did this interesting project with millennials in Chicago. We picked a homeless woman. Our goal was to raise $100 only from millennials and Gen Zs on that day. We went to ask millennials for $1 or $2, not much. What experience would we get from them? What is their mindset? They came forward and gave us a lot of information about “I will give you a dollar, but I don’t know how you’re going to use it. I don’t trust you. I know you will give this to a homeless shelter, but I don’t know how they use this dollar. I need that transparency. How do I get it?” We learned that. We failed in that project the first day.
 We went back again the next day. How do we provide the transparency to them? We approached them and enrolled them on this Google form. We collected $1 from each of them. We provided a complete transparency of every donation that is being collected and how we have utilized the dollar, delivered it to the homeless shelter. The homeless shelter was kind enough to give information about how they are using that to buy food for them. We provided every moment information to them. Information has flowed to them. At the end, after that project was completed, we went back to ask for feedback. “Wow, I see my dollar how it has been utilized in this transparency.” The platforms, not a lot of millennials are on those crowdfunding platforms today because transparency is lacking. That is how we learn about them with this project.
 Russell: That’s good. Are there ways nonprofits can bridge the gap between their expectations and the expectations of the millennials/Gen Z supporters and prospects? Building trust sounds like the crux of it. Are there some other ways that they can function to move closer, to bridge that gap?  
 Pradeep: The biggest thing I am thinking is we have to have the leadership transformation in charities. We need them to come on board and continue the service. How do we do that is a big question mark still for me. I’m still learning about that. A couple of things I observe about them today is they are more looking at for-profit money-making organizations as they carry a cross as part of their growth. They don’t see that in nonprofits today. To utilize their skills, marketing requires a different kind of technical skill today. It’s not the same anymore as it used to be. It requires a mix of technical skills and the different mindset to run a successful marketing campaign today. Traditionally, marketing has been non-technical. That gives you an example of what skills we are looking at as individuals. What is their growth? How will their careers build if what they are doing is important to them? How do we address that as nonprofits? I don’t know.
 Russell: Every favorite radio station is WIIFM, What’s In It For Me? That can be shifted to What’s In It From Me? Part of what Sahave does is it creates a way to really engage people. To engage people, you have to give them what they want. It’s that simple, whatever type of business or organization. Give people what they want. It’s finding out how to do that. I think one of the big differences today versus my youth is that the days going down the career path and starting with a job and working for 40 years and going off into the sunset to retire are over. There are multiple career changes. People want to expand. I’m seeing people who want to expand. Be more, do more, do work that matters. You can’t do that sitting in one place. What type of experience can you deliver to those people, whether they are your donors, whether they serve on your board, whether they are your staff or employees? They are there because what nonprofits need from people is time, talent, and treasure. If somebody loves what you’re doing enough to give you one, they will probably give you the other two if it’s in their means. It’s having that conversation and making that connection. Maybe we’re falling down on that.
 What do you see are the biggest benefits of finding ways to bridge those gaps in where we are now and where we could go?
 Pradeep: Career paths are critical. As an individual with a technology background, I see artificial intelligence is going to play a bigger role in our community, not as technology. I’m talking about a community level. It’s going to play a bigger role by 2030. It disrupts the way we live today. How we are living today is not going to be the same in 2030. We need an alternative for humans to connect to each other in that environment. This is just a theory. What kind of technology, artificial intelligence will disrupt in our community? We don’t know. We just know what is coming. How it will impact how we are living, we don’t know. We can just speculate. It could be worse. It could be better. For example, unemployment will grow definitely. What will the growth rate be in 2030? A lot of information is happening. A lot of low-cost methods of implementing technology are coming out. Which is going to disrupt the way so far we have been living within a community where we are making wealthy social profits and for-profit segments. We are living in that at every moment today.
 What is in it for me in terms of money is a priority today. That nature when a community changes from that demand for money goes down and there is no demand. Our essential things to live are food, shelter, and clothes. That is all. It comes down to those three things. When you can’t make money, how will you get those three things? We can’t imagine today in this environment. To put ourselves in 2030 and what we will face and how we will train and educate our future generations to be ready for that, I don’t see that happening today. Preparing ourselves with technology, making changes in our communities. We are not putting them in the right path for the future. That will be a big challenge. Especially with the mindset, what is in it for me in terms of benefits of money only has a significant impact on charities.
 Russell: This is what I love about this platform. In looking around, there are places where people have meetings of the mind. There is a magnificent blog area. There is a place for people to come together and have conversations and connect. This is the way to move forward. It’s about collaboration, connection, getting out of the old thought paradigm and working in a silo and becoming part of a community. It’s about community. If we can find a way to make it global, that will solve our problems. The nature of hunger, the nature of homelessness, the nature of disease, these things that are persistent as such that it takes all of us working together to try to make a big difference.
 Pradeep: Exactly. That is the collaboration strategy on Sahave. That is the reason I want it to be a global platform. Collaborative platform. This integrates kindness without conversion into dollars. There is an exchange of kindness happening here, which has an economic impact for charities and for communities. It really depends on how this Kindness Currency will transform in the next 12 years by 2030. My intention for introducing kindness as an exchange within charity arena will bring us back into what we are as humans and our necessities at the bottom level. That was my intention of introducing kindness currency.
 Russell: It’s important to have us. That is where that struggle has been to measure what matters. It’s all about making things better for all of humanity. This is why nonprofits are here. We’re here to make a difference and impact the community and help us bring people together. That’s what it’s all about. Having a place and a method to come together and talk about it is what Sahave provides on a global scale. I am very excited about it. Sahave.org. Go there and sign up.
 Pradeep: Thank you. Sahave. You can also contact me directly at Pradeep@sahave.org. That is my email address. If you have any questions about how to use this platform for nonprofit organizations and also for individuals. I am always there to-
 Hugh: Pradeep, thank you for this information today, and Russell for such a great interview. We have given out the website, Sahave.org. We want people to go there and join. There is more to be gained by working together than trying to work in silos. I think it’s primarily people don’t have the experience, the knowledge, or the tools to be able to move into the collaborative space in a substantial way. Russell’s wisdom and the conversations we have had with people is to find out what other people are interested in and what they want. Russell, I have learned a lot from you. Pradeep, I want to learn how to roll my r’s. You bring forth a sense of calm as you’re talking. You’re all in on this venture. SynerVision is helping you launch and supporting this platform because we know it will bring some energy to all the nonprofits that are struggling in this area of connecting communications.
 *Sponsor message from WordSprint*
 Pradeep, what do you want to leave people with before Russell closes out this really great interview?
 Pradeep: I want to mention our relationship with SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We can provide some grants through our relationship to nonprofits who are interested in working with Sahave and building this platform and using this and providing some feedback to us. Very nice questions, Russell on how we bridge this gap between millennials; as you have heard me, I am not 100%. There are always gaps. As you grow, you learn more gaps, then you fill them in. I am looking for nonprofit organizations out there who would like to work with me in building this Sahave platform in our relationship with SynerVision Leadership Foundation to provide some grants to use our platform and build it to close that gap somewhat, which is our critical need in this time.
 Hugh: Thank you for that. We are accepting donations to support you. We are giving away a few scholarships for people to get in there and try that. It’s good for you and your team to be involved. Reach out to us after you register. pradeep@sahave.org, he will respond to you. Pradeep, thank you for being a guest today on The Nonprofit Exchange. This is an important product you’re producing.
 Pradeep: Thank you very much, Hugh. Thank you for your time, Russell.
 Russell: Thank you. As always, thank you to those folks who join us and support us regularly. We look forward to seeing you again. Don’t forget the name, Sahave.org. You will be seeing a lot more of them and a lot more of us. Thanks as always.
 Thank you for making 2018 a spectacular year for SynerVision. I’m looking forward to 2019, where we can go out there and make a difference in the lives of people. As Pradeep so eloquently put it, in a way that I don’t always remember and I don’t always think about, our work is saving lives out there. Thank you, stick with it, and we will be here in 2019.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2018 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7b29e06a-b329-11eb-9f0f-6fe07d0a8a9b/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Why Millenials and GenZ are disconnected with nonprofits today?</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Why Millenials and GenZ are disconnected with nonprofits today?
 Pradeep Kandimalla, Founder and Chief Executive of SAHAVE™ is so passionate about social change he has dedicated his life to serving others. Spending twenty years in the nonprofit world and witnessing their struggles to fulfill their missions spurred him to build The Platform for Social Change to bring about social change worldwide. Not only does SAHAVE keep him hopping, his beautiful daughters keep him busy as well. Oh, and mom has high expectations for him too.  Ever since watching “Schindlers List,” a significant impact has been made on his career and inspired a mission to work towards a greater good around worldwide. He has been working on and refining the concept of SAHAVE since 2015 and now it is time to make this disruptive technology that is going to shift how nonprofit and communities can come together to provide service, available to the future world. 
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s another Tuesday with Hugh and Russell. As you expect, we have a guest who has profound knowledge for you. A great vision. He is a modest man, but he has a big heart and a big vision. Russell David Dennis, from Denver, around Denver, you’re not actually in Denver. You’re in those big old Rocky Mountains. How are you, sir?
 Russell Dennis: Hey, I’m out here in Aurora, a stone’s throw from Denver, Colorado. Today, our guest is a man who has come up with a way to help us engage with one another better. Pradeep Kandimalla, welcome, and thank you for joining us. He is the founder of Sahave. Pradeep, tell us a little bit about yourself.  
 Pradeep Kandimalla: Thank you. It was a great introduction. It’s been a year that I met Hugh. Learning every time I meet him. Thank you. I’m an electronics engineer with a background of technology. As part of my project for my Bachelor’s, I did an affordable electronic device, a PC. I did a Masters in Business Administration, specialized in operations management from the University of Central Oklahoma, mainly focusing on sciences, how applications can be tailored to usage and businesses around us. That was my focus. For the last 25 years, I was working in the packing industry, implementing enterprise planning operations systems for public sector, private sector, nonprofit sector, multi-million-dollar projects, managing different levels of themes from technology to operations. That is my background.
 Russell: What people don’t know about is that you have a real love for social change. You have managed to marry your passion for technology with your passion for social change to make a big difference. You created something called Sahave. It is a place for people to come together and connect and make a difference. Tell me about Sahave, what it is and why you started it.
 Pradeep: The meaning of it. Saha in Sanskrit means “community coming together for service.” English word – we. I mixed these two words together. I had a dream ever since I watched Schindler’s List. When I saw Oscar Schindler save lives during World War II by doing business- in my view, he is the first social entrepreneur making an impact in community during a crisis. That is how I view that movie. It made a significant impact on me. Ever since that day, it was my intention to use my skills to build something for the benefit of community. Out of that desire and passion that I have been working with nonprofits at ground level who serve communities. They suffer a lot with technology. There is no one to help them. I have noticed that, and I have tried to provide solutions in many ways in my volunteering space for them. I couldn’t get them what I think as an operational head, it’s not everything. That’s how I started Sahave as a social enterprise, actively developing a benefit corporation. It’s a nonprofit, a benefit corporation, what I am developing Sahave as. It’s been two years now. We officially started in January 2017. That was a journey since then. It’s been two years in creating this social enterprise.
 Russell: You said something that’s really important. I don’t know how many of us that work in the nonprofit field think about this, but this saves lives. The work that nonprofits do, it’s life-saving in a lot of instances. That is no small thing. This platform that you created with a space to connect hearts and minds, I will be telling you folks how to get connected, it’s something that we have seen that’s so marvelous that we want to get that out there to everybody so you have a chance to use it.
 In particular, this platform helps us to engage with millennials and Gen Z folks. There are a lot of differences in the way that boomers like Hugh and myself think about nonprofits and the way that millennials and Gen Z, younger people, think about nonprofits and think about making a difference. What is your experience, Pradeep, with engaging with millennials and Gen Zs? How has that been?
 Pradeep: That’s a nice question. My focus with Sahave is to get the service model built in within our next generation, to be part of charities. As part of it, Sahave’s mission is two-fold. One is to mobilize a social movement to change lives and enable that social movement with a cloud-based global platform for communities to thrive. These are the two things coming together. The movement is first, and enabling that movement with support is very important with millennials and Gen Zs.
 If you think of empathy as a big thing that is required for charity or any kind of service, before millennials, empathy was naturally built into humans in previous generations because we have faced hunger. We know what hunger is. We have seen different cycles in our lives. World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War. Name any war. We have seen the Iran War, Iraq War, different cycles in our lives. We built that empathy naturally. Today, if you look at charity organizations, 90% of them are run by people older than 40-50. That natural empathy in them has created those charity organizations that support our communities at the local level that governments cannot do through social services. We definitely need to try and spread these charities even for our future generations. We need to have the next generation leadership come on board, continue our legacy of services that people today are doing in the community. That is key. We need to make an impact on millennials and Gen Zs and teach them in their way how to provide service and build an empathy in them. They still have empathy, but their nature of empathy triggers a different way than ours. Before millennials, it was a natural empathy; there is no trigger required. Millennials are more socially inclined, but empathy needs some kind of trigger in every moment. That is what this two-fold mission of Sahave is intended to build: to create a movement with a system that enables it together.
 Russell: Where is it that some of us in the older generation, as time has passed we sort of lost our ability to connect, to pass on that empathy? Are there some language differences or some thought differences that have hindered our ability to pass that on and make that connection?
 Pradeep: I wouldn’t put it that way. We did pass on that connection. They still have empathy. But the trigger points are different. Their thinking mindset. For everything, they look at real time. The impact has to be transparent to them in what they are creating. It wasn’t a need for us before. If we just know somewhere in the world something is happening, we know naturally, “Sorry, man, let’s do something,” even though we aren’t expecting that transparency. With millennials and Gen Zs, they do have this empathy, but the empathy requires a different kind of trigger. Transparency is key for them. Without transparency, they don’t feel the impact of the creator. They don’t see a next time to do the same service. For us, it was totally different. We just do the service. Forget about transparency and accountability, what we have handed over to somebody else.
 Russell: What are some of the ways that Sahave helps us to do that?
 Pradeep: Very good question. Sahave is a platform that we are building. It is a technology that is pending right now. Couple of principles I would say there. My intention to create Sahave is to provide cutting-edge technology at low cost for nonprofit organizations for operations, to focus their mission, to maximize their impact with their donor base. Luckily, today’s technology has provided that advantage because the new way to develop an enterprise application is disruptive right now. Think about transportation services right now. It has disrupted the way technology has enabled us. These apps are connecting individual to individual for low cost. Very efficiently providing the services. Sahave is a service platform enabling individuals. People come together to help each other save lives with that disruptive technology and innovation we have built. Just building a technology is not good enough. With my experience and seven years of research and working with millennials to understand their need to be part of some movement. That is why our first part of the mission is creating a movement that enables the heart to do service, and then give them support to strengthen their movement with technology, which brings us transparency and is low cost for nonprofits to operate this platform.
 Russell: It’s not always easy to bring the mind and technology together like that. You’ve been at this for a while. What has kept you motivated to bring this movement together with technology over such a long period of time?
 Pradeep: It’s 25 years. Oskar Schindler has made a significant impact on me. The way he created a for-profit business manufacturing with cheap labor during World War II- cheap labor was Jews in camps. He created that selling to Germans. Doing that, he saved lives. He learned that. Initially, when he started the business, he didn’t know that. When he went through the process, he learned he was saving lives. Bringing bribes to the German army to get cheap labor on board, he was thinking he was making profit. He never counted how much bribes he was giving out. He lost all his fortune. In 1945, after World War II ended, he saved about 200 lives. He said, “I wish I would have made more money to save more lives.” He lost all his fortune. He was a rich person at that time.
 What he said at the end, I wish I had more money to save more lives, has created in my mindset every impact has to be multiplied. It’s not like every charity is suffering with donations. It’s just like if you think as an individual, charities are living paycheck to paycheck on a monthly basis from donors. If they don’t have a paycheck that month, their services are dying. We need to create a platform that enables nonprofits to fight against the social issues that are ever growing for us: poverty, hunger. Name any social issue that is growing. Charities are only doing a miniscule part of it today. My goal is to minimize that and strengthen nonprofits as part of this platform. That is the reason we are creating it as a benefit corporation, which is to give back while creating an impact in our platform. This enables nonprofits to sustain even longer.
 Russell: It’s about sustainability. What we are talking about is social profit. It can’t always be measured in terms of dollars. It’s measured in other terms, but shifts in humans lives. I commend you for that. Nonprofit is a term that can be misunderstood. I think people have the misconception that nonprofit means you don’t make any money or have any extra money. A good friend of ours points out that nonprofit is a tax status, not a business strategy. Making a difference is what it’s all about. I think that nonprofits and philanthropy is there because they are just certain things your ordinary profit-making enterprises and the government aren’t set up to do. It’s that place where everything is married together so that it can actually go out and make a difference. I find that our problems are so complex now that it takes all hands on deck. Social benefit organizations are that fourth thing: the nonprofits were the third sector for a while. It’s that fourth piece that has come in to fill the gaps.
 In your journey, as you were putting it together, tell us a little bit about how you came to the decision to create a benefit corporation, how you came to the conclusion that this was the right structure to use in order to make this difference.
 Pradeep: Excellent. One of the major problems with nonprofits today is they are faced with local rules and regulations. Every country and state is different. Having a global nonprofit organization, even Red Cross is not a global entity. If you look at American Red Cross, it is a separate entity from Indian Red Cross. They have to be defined in their jurisdictions and play according to the rules and regulations of that separate entity. That is the first challenge I was thinking about when I created Sahave. I can’t be global. This should be global. My vision is to connect people to save lives. It doesn’t matter. We are a global community, a global economy, globally connected on platforms. We know Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, Google. It’s all global. Humans are connected well. Sahave should also be a movement globally making an impact and connecting. With that intention, I created this as a for-profit.
 I had to make stakeholders of Sahave to be aligned with our mission and vision. Every for-profit organization has a for-profit motive for stakeholders. Keeping the mission and vision as they come on board is very important for me. I don’t want them to be deviating from our mission and vision in the eyes of making profit. People first, and then profit following. That was my intention in creating benefit corporation. I have been studying this for the last three years. I was lucky enough to get a partner like Kings Council and Cross Foundation who knows how to set up a benefit corporation. I was looking for somebody to develop it, keeping this mode of people first and profit next. If I have that as part of the DNA, it’s a success for me. That was the intention.
 Russell: That is the power of the form and why I think it’s taken hold. Social profit is about people as well as materials and money to solve problems. This is disruptive. I think of Airbnb. I think of Uber. Now we have Sahave, here in place to help make a difference and help us connect with one another in ways we weren’t able to, and providing us an opportunity to be more global in our approach to things. That is something.
 Hugh: Hey Russ, let’s spell that to make sure people get to the right website. Sahave. Thank you. There is a lot of information on that website. Sahave.org.
 Russell: It’s a great place to go. We want to help bring this to people, help people find this, enroll in it, use it. That is the best way to get a feel for it. It’s just a wonderful platform for people to come together.
 Prior to your building this platform, what is it that is missing for your typical nonprofit to attract millennials and Gen Z workers or supporters?
 Pradeep: As you mentioned, without money, there is no operations. That is a big issue with millennials. They should see the money there. What you mentioned about charity organizations as a third sector today, they don’t see that money. That was a primary factor for them: getting attracted to other for-profit organizations. With what we have created on this platform is we created our own currency, which is called Kindness Currency. It’s our trademark. There is a way somebody can exchange kindness within them with some other person right next to them and earn Kindness. It all goes back to karma. What you give is what you get back. Here, with Kindness currency, you are measuring your own social impact in the community. The person, every individual, millennials are looking for that feeling in them. How do I measure my kindness that I have done and the impact I created? With that intention is why we have created Kindness Currency, which gives them an opportunity to exchange kindness with anybody, neighbor helping neighbor. That neighbor doesn’t have to help that neighbor back. They can help others. It’s a pass-on method. It allows them to build that kind of social impact without using money, using your time that you’re giving to kindness. For example, in yoga, you don’t calculate time. The life of a person is in terms of number of breaths. You could take in one second three breaths, and then you could take one breath. A person has the number of breaths defined when they are born. Kindness should connect to that because that is what is directly connecting the time in your life with materialistic life, what we are doing today. As a platform, Sahave is getting you back as a human within you doing service to each other.
 Russell: That has been a challenge for nonprofits to try to measure that impact. Social profit is a term that the author David Grant came up with when he wrote a book about it. Hugh talks about what we call return on life. I call it return on influence, return on impact to stay in the ROI frame. There are a lot of nonprofits that have difficulty framing that and showing that impact. It looks like Sahave is a vehicle for helping us to measure impact beyond dollars and cents, which is the biggest challenge for nonprofits. Am I on track? What do you think of that?
 Pradeep: You are perfectly on track. Humanity coming out of heart is perfect for Sahave because that is how you can create charity in community. That is the movement. Sahave is creating within every individual to have that kind of feeling at every moment making it real time for them. It’s key for the next generation.
 Russell: Our primary problem I would surmise has been communication. What would you say are the most common barriers to communication between the generations?
 Pradeep: Communication is a big thing. As long as we have existed as humans, we have had this problem. Every generation thinks differently. It’s tough to put ourselves into their mindset. When we have defined our own lifestyle in certain ways and never previous generations, the majority of them, they don’t focus on changing themselves looking in the future. I’m saying just the majority of them, not everyone. There is still a population of that generation knowing what’s important to learn. That transformation is always happening between industrial revolutions from generation one to two, two to three, three to four. We have made certain changes in our community. From ground level to government level. It’s a continuous learning process. My feeling when it comes to communications. That gap will happen only when someone can peek into others’ hearts with their view.
 Russell: It’s a question of being open to a different point of view. What are some ways that we could do that today? There are a lot of different nonprofit leaders listening to this. Some are older. They’re my age and Hugh’s age. What are two or three things that you would tell a baby boomer that she/he could do that would help shift them in the direction of being more effective at communicating and connecting with millennials?
 Pradeep: I’m in your shoes, Russell, when I started this journey. I identified this problem. I started going to interacting with them. What does their mindset look like? They are more gamers. We know that. But at the same time, if you get involved with them and play a game, you will learn their behavior in that game. They are naturally connected to that game. Our generation, we just see it as a thing. We never connect ourselves to that, but they do. They even change their mindset based on that. They think everything else outside is the same. Getting them to their natural instinct is difficult. If we can tap into their mindset and understand why they are not doing that, and if they intend to do something, for example a charity or a donation, a dollar donation to homeless-
 We just did this interesting project with millennials in Chicago. We picked a homeless woman. Our goal was to raise $100 only from millennials and Gen Zs on that day. We went to ask millennials for $1 or $2, not much. What experience would we get from them? What is their mindset? They came forward and gave us a lot of information about “I will give you a dollar, but I don’t know how you’re going to use it. I don’t trust you. I know you will give this to a homeless shelter, but I don’t know how they use this dollar. I need that transparency. How do I get it?” We learned that. We failed in that project the first day.
 We went back again the next day. How do we provide the transparency to them? We approached them and enrolled them on this Google form. We collected $1 from each of them. We provided a complete transparency of every donation that is being collected and how we have utilized the dollar, delivered it to the homeless shelter. The homeless shelter was kind enough to give information about how they are using that to buy food for them. We provided every moment information to them. Information has flowed to them. At the end, after that project was completed, we went back to ask for feedback. “Wow, I see my dollar how it has been utilized in this transparency.” The platforms, not a lot of millennials are on those crowdfunding platforms today because transparency is lacking. That is how we learn about them with this project.
 Russell: That’s good. Are there ways nonprofits can bridge the gap between their expectations and the expectations of the millennials/Gen Z supporters and prospects? Building trust sounds like the crux of it. Are there some other ways that they can function to move closer, to bridge that gap?  
 Pradeep: The biggest thing I am thinking is we have to have the leadership transformation in charities. We need them to come on board and continue the service. How do we do that is a big question mark still for me. I’m still learning about that. A couple of things I observe about them today is they are more looking at for-profit money-making organizations as they carry a cross as part of their growth. They don’t see that in nonprofits today. To utilize their skills, marketing requires a different kind of technical skill today. It’s not the same anymore as it used to be. It requires a mix of technical skills and the different mindset to run a successful marketing campaign today. Traditionally, marketing has been non-technical. That gives you an example of what skills we are looking at as individuals. What is their growth? How will their careers build if what they are doing is important to them? How do we address that as nonprofits? I don’t know.
 Russell: Every favorite radio station is WIIFM, What’s In It For Me? That can be shifted to What’s In It From Me? Part of what Sahave does is it creates a way to really engage people. To engage people, you have to give them what they want. It’s that simple, whatever type of business or organization. Give people what they want. It’s finding out how to do that. I think one of the big differences today versus my youth is that the days going down the career path and starting with a job and working for 40 years and going off into the sunset to retire are over. There are multiple career changes. People want to expand. I’m seeing people who want to expand. Be more, do more, do work that matters. You can’t do that sitting in one place. What type of experience can you deliver to those people, whether they are your donors, whether they serve on your board, whether they are your staff or employees? They are there because what nonprofits need from people is time, talent, and treasure. If somebody loves what you’re doing enough to give you one, they will probably give you the other two if it’s in their means. It’s having that conversation and making that connection. Maybe we’re falling down on that.
 What do you see are the biggest benefits of finding ways to bridge those gaps in where we are now and where we could go?
 Pradeep: Career paths are critical. As an individual with a technology background, I see artificial intelligence is going to play a bigger role in our community, not as technology. I’m talking about a community level. It’s going to play a bigger role by 2030. It disrupts the way we live today. How we are living today is not going to be the same in 2030. We need an alternative for humans to connect to each other in that environment. This is just a theory. What kind of technology, artificial intelligence will disrupt in our community? We don’t know. We just know what is coming. How it will impact how we are living, we don’t know. We can just speculate. It could be worse. It could be better. For example, unemployment will grow definitely. What will the growth rate be in 2030? A lot of information is happening. A lot of low-cost methods of implementing technology are coming out. Which is going to disrupt the way so far we have been living within a community where we are making wealthy social profits and for-profit segments. We are living in that at every moment today.
 What is in it for me in terms of money is a priority today. That nature when a community changes from that demand for money goes down and there is no demand. Our essential things to live are food, shelter, and clothes. That is all. It comes down to those three things. When you can’t make money, how will you get those three things? We can’t imagine today in this environment. To put ourselves in 2030 and what we will face and how we will train and educate our future generations to be ready for that, I don’t see that happening today. Preparing ourselves with technology, making changes in our communities. We are not putting them in the right path for the future. That will be a big challenge. Especially with the mindset, what is in it for me in terms of benefits of money only has a significant impact on charities.
 Russell: This is what I love about this platform. In looking around, there are places where people have meetings of the mind. There is a magnificent blog area. There is a place for people to come together and have conversations and connect. This is the way to move forward. It’s about collaboration, connection, getting out of the old thought paradigm and working in a silo and becoming part of a community. It’s about community. If we can find a way to make it global, that will solve our problems. The nature of hunger, the nature of homelessness, the nature of disease, these things that are persistent as such that it takes all of us working together to try to make a big difference.
 Pradeep: Exactly. That is the collaboration strategy on Sahave. That is the reason I want it to be a global platform. Collaborative platform. This integrates kindness without conversion into dollars. There is an exchange of kindness happening here, which has an economic impact for charities and for communities. It really depends on how this Kindness Currency will transform in the next 12 years by 2030. My intention for introducing kindness as an exchange within charity arena will bring us back into what we are as humans and our necessities at the bottom level. That was my intention of introducing kindness currency.
 Russell: It’s important to have us. That is where that struggle has been to measure what matters. It’s all about making things better for all of humanity. This is why nonprofits are here. We’re here to make a difference and impact the community and help us bring people together. That’s what it’s all about. Having a place and a method to come together and talk about it is what Sahave provides on a global scale. I am very excited about it. Sahave.org. Go there and sign up.
 Pradeep: Thank you. Sahave. You can also contact me directly at Pradeep@sahave.org. That is my email address. If you have any questions about how to use this platform for nonprofit organizations and also for individuals. I am always there to-
 Hugh: Pradeep, thank you for this information today, and Russell for such a great interview. We have given out the website, Sahave.org. We want people to go there and join. There is more to be gained by working together than trying to work in silos. I think it’s primarily people don’t have the experience, the knowledge, or the tools to be able to move into the collaborative space in a substantial way. Russell’s wisdom and the conversations we have had with people is to find out what other people are interested in and what they want. Russell, I have learned a lot from you. Pradeep, I want to learn how to roll my r’s. You bring forth a sense of calm as you’re talking. You’re all in on this venture. SynerVision is helping you launch and supporting this platform because we know it will bring some energy to all the nonprofits that are struggling in this area of connecting communications.
 *Sponsor message from WordSprint*
 Pradeep, what do you want to leave people with before Russell closes out this really great interview?
 Pradeep: I want to mention our relationship with SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We can provide some grants through our relationship to nonprofits who are interested in working with Sahave and building this platform and using this and providing some feedback to us. Very nice questions, Russell on how we bridge this gap between millennials; as you have heard me, I am not 100%. There are always gaps. As you grow, you learn more gaps, then you fill them in. I am looking for nonprofit organizations out there who would like to work with me in building this Sahave platform in our relationship with SynerVision Leadership Foundation to provide some grants to use our platform and build it to close that gap somewhat, which is our critical need in this time.
 Hugh: Thank you for that. We are accepting donations to support you. We are giving away a few scholarships for people to get in there and try that. It’s good for you and your team to be involved. Reach out to us after you register. pradeep@sahave.org, he will respond to you. Pradeep, thank you for being a guest today on The Nonprofit Exchange. This is an important product you’re producing.
 Pradeep: Thank you very much, Hugh. Thank you for your time, Russell.
 Russell: Thank you. As always, thank you to those folks who join us and support us regularly. We look forward to seeing you again. Don’t forget the name, Sahave.org. You will be seeing a lot more of them and a lot more of us. Thanks as always.
 Thank you for making 2018 a spectacular year for SynerVision. I’m looking forward to 2019, where we can go out there and make a difference in the lives of people. As Pradeep so eloquently put it, in a way that I don’t always remember and I don’t always think about, our work is saving lives out there. Thank you, stick with it, and we will be here in 2019.
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Why Millenials and GenZ are disconnected with nonprofits today?</strong></h1> <p><strong>Pradeep Kandimalla</strong>, Founder and Chief Executive of SAHAVE™ is so passionate about social change he has dedicated his life to serving others. Spending twenty years in the nonprofit world and witnessing their struggles to fulfill their missions spurred him to build The Platform for Social Change to bring about social change worldwide. Not only does SAHAVE keep him hopping, his beautiful daughters keep him busy as well. Oh, and mom has high expectations for him too.<br> <br> Ever since watching “Schindlers List,” a significant impact has been made on his career and inspired a mission to work towards a greater good around worldwide. He has been working on and refining the concept of SAHAVE since 2015 and now it is time to make this disruptive technology that is going to shift how nonprofit and communities can come together to provide service, available to the future world.<br> <br></p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> It’s another Tuesday with Hugh and Russell. As you expect, we have a guest who has profound knowledge for you. A great vision. He is a modest man, but he has a big heart and a big vision. Russell David Dennis, from Denver, around Denver, you’re not actually in Denver. You’re in those big old Rocky Mountains. How are you, sir?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Hey, I’m out here in Aurora, a stone’s throw from Denver, Colorado. Today, our guest is a man who has come up with a way to help us engage with one another better. Pradeep Kandimalla, welcome, and thank you for joining us. He is the founder of Sahave. Pradeep, tell us a little bit about yourself. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Pradeep Kandimalla:</strong> Thank you. It was a great introduction. It’s been a year that I met Hugh. Learning every time I meet him. Thank you. I’m an electronics engineer with a background of technology. As part of my project for my Bachelor’s, I did an affordable electronic device, a PC. I did a Masters in Business Administration, specialized in operations management from the University of Central Oklahoma, mainly focusing on sciences, how applications can be tailored to usage and businesses around us. That was my focus. For the last 25 years, I was working in the packing industry, implementing enterprise planning operations systems for public sector, private sector, nonprofit sector, multi-million-dollar projects, managing different levels of themes from technology to operations. That is my background.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What people don’t know about is that you have a real love for social change. You have managed to marry your passion for technology with your passion for social change to make a big difference. You created something called Sahave. It is a place for people to come together and connect and make a difference. Tell me about Sahave, what it is and why you started it.</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> The meaning of it. Saha in Sanskrit means “community coming together for service.” English word – we. I mixed these two words together. I had a dream ever since I watched <em>Schindler’s List.</em> When I saw Oscar Schindler save lives during World War II by doing business- in my view, he is the first social entrepreneur making an impact in community during a crisis. That is how I view that movie. It made a significant impact on me. Ever since that day, it was my intention to use my skills to build something for the benefit of community. Out of that desire and passion that I have been working with nonprofits at ground level who serve communities. They suffer a lot with technology. There is no one to help them. I have noticed that, and I have tried to provide solutions in many ways in my volunteering space for them. I couldn’t get them what I think as an operational head, it’s not everything. That’s how I started Sahave as a social enterprise, actively developing a benefit corporation. It’s a nonprofit, a benefit corporation, what I am developing Sahave as. It’s been two years now. We officially started in January 2017. That was a journey since then. It’s been two years in creating this social enterprise.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You said something that’s really important. I don’t know how many of us that work in the nonprofit field think about this, but this saves lives. The work that nonprofits do, it’s life-saving in a lot of instances. That is no small thing. This platform that you created with a space to connect hearts and minds, I will be telling you folks how to get connected, it’s something that we have seen that’s so marvelous that we want to get that out there to everybody so you have a chance to use it.</p> <p>In particular, this platform helps us to engage with millennials and Gen Z folks. There are a lot of differences in the way that boomers like Hugh and myself think about nonprofits and the way that millennials and Gen Z, younger people, think about nonprofits and think about making a difference. What is your experience, Pradeep, with engaging with millennials and Gen Zs? How has that been?</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> That’s a nice question. My focus with Sahave is to get the service model built in within our next generation, to be part of charities. As part of it, Sahave’s mission is two-fold. One is to mobilize a social movement to change lives and enable that social movement with a cloud-based global platform for communities to thrive. These are the two things coming together. The movement is first, and enabling that movement with support is very important with millennials and Gen Zs.</p> <p>If you think of empathy as a big thing that is required for charity or any kind of service, before millennials, empathy was naturally built into humans in previous generations because we have faced hunger. We know what hunger is. We have seen different cycles in our lives. World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War. Name any war. We have seen the Iran War, Iraq War, different cycles in our lives. We built that empathy naturally. Today, if you look at charity organizations, 90% of them are run by people older than 40-50. That natural empathy in them has created those charity organizations that support our communities at the local level that governments cannot do through social services. We definitely need to try and spread these charities even for our future generations. We need to have the next generation leadership come on board, continue our legacy of services that people today are doing in the community. That is key. We need to make an impact on millennials and Gen Zs and teach them in their way how to provide service and build an empathy in them. They still have empathy, but their nature of empathy triggers a different way than ours. Before millennials, it was a natural empathy; there is no trigger required. Millennials are more socially inclined, but empathy needs some kind of trigger in every moment. That is what this two-fold mission of Sahave is intended to build: to create a movement with a system that enables it together.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Where is it that some of us in the older generation, as time has passed we sort of lost our ability to connect, to pass on that empathy? Are there some language differences or some thought differences that have hindered our ability to pass that on and make that connection?</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> I wouldn’t put it that way. We did pass on that connection. They still have empathy. But the trigger points are different. Their thinking mindset. For everything, they look at real time. The impact has to be transparent to them in what they are creating. It wasn’t a need for us before. If we just know somewhere in the world something is happening, we know naturally, “Sorry, man, let’s do something,” even though we aren’t expecting that transparency. With millennials and Gen Zs, they do have this empathy, but the empathy requires a different kind of trigger. Transparency is key for them. Without transparency, they don’t feel the impact of the creator. They don’t see a next time to do the same service. For us, it was totally different. We just do the service. Forget about transparency and accountability, what we have handed over to somebody else.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What are some of the ways that Sahave helps us to do that?</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> Very good question. Sahave is a platform that we are building. It is a technology that is pending right now. Couple of principles I would say there. My intention to create Sahave is to provide cutting-edge technology at low cost for nonprofit organizations for operations, to focus their mission, to maximize their impact with their donor base. Luckily, today’s technology has provided that advantage because the new way to develop an enterprise application is disruptive right now. Think about transportation services right now. It has disrupted the way technology has enabled us. These apps are connecting individual to individual for low cost. Very efficiently providing the services. Sahave is a service platform enabling individuals. People come together to help each other save lives with that disruptive technology and innovation we have built. Just building a technology is not good enough. With my experience and seven years of research and working with millennials to understand their need to be part of some movement. That is why our first part of the mission is creating a movement that enables the heart to do service, and then give them support to strengthen their movement with technology, which brings us transparency and is low cost for nonprofits to operate this platform.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s not always easy to bring the mind and technology together like that. You’ve been at this for a while. What has kept you motivated to bring this movement together with technology over such a long period of time?</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> It’s 25 years. Oskar Schindler has made a significant impact on me. The way he created a for-profit business manufacturing with cheap labor during World War II- cheap labor was Jews in camps. He created that selling to Germans. Doing that, he saved lives. He learned that. Initially, when he started the business, he didn’t know that. When he went through the process, he learned he was saving lives. Bringing bribes to the German army to get cheap labor on board, he was thinking he was making profit. He never counted how much bribes he was giving out. He lost all his fortune. In 1945, after World War II ended, he saved about 200 lives. He said, “I wish I would have made more money to save more lives.” He lost all his fortune. He was a rich person at that time.</p> <p>What he said at the end, I wish I had more money to save more lives, has created in my mindset every impact has to be multiplied. It’s not like every charity is suffering with donations. It’s just like if you think as an individual, charities are living paycheck to paycheck on a monthly basis from donors. If they don’t have a paycheck that month, their services are dying. We need to create a platform that enables nonprofits to fight against the social issues that are ever growing for us: poverty, hunger. Name any social issue that is growing. Charities are only doing a miniscule part of it today. My goal is to minimize that and strengthen nonprofits as part of this platform. That is the reason we are creating it as a benefit corporation, which is to give back while creating an impact in our platform. This enables nonprofits to sustain even longer.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s about sustainability. What we are talking about is social profit. It can’t always be measured in terms of dollars. It’s measured in other terms, but shifts in humans lives. I commend you for that. Nonprofit is a term that can be misunderstood. I think people have the misconception that nonprofit means you don’t make any money or have any extra money. A good friend of ours points out that nonprofit is a tax status, not a business strategy. Making a difference is what it’s all about. I think that nonprofits and philanthropy is there because they are just certain things your ordinary profit-making enterprises and the government aren’t set up to do. It’s that place where everything is married together so that it can actually go out and make a difference. I find that our problems are so complex now that it takes all hands on deck. Social benefit organizations are that fourth thing: the nonprofits were the third sector for a while. It’s that fourth piece that has come in to fill the gaps.</p> <p>In your journey, as you were putting it together, tell us a little bit about how you came to the decision to create a benefit corporation, how you came to the conclusion that this was the right structure to use in order to make this difference.</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> Excellent. One of the major problems with nonprofits today is they are faced with local rules and regulations. Every country and state is different. Having a global nonprofit organization, even Red Cross is not a global entity. If you look at American Red Cross, it is a separate entity from Indian Red Cross. They have to be defined in their jurisdictions and play according to the rules and regulations of that separate entity. That is the first challenge I was thinking about when I created Sahave. I can’t be global. This should be global. My vision is to connect people to save lives. It doesn’t matter. We are a global community, a global economy, globally connected on platforms. We know Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, Google. It’s all global. Humans are connected well. Sahave should also be a movement globally making an impact and connecting. With that intention, I created this as a for-profit.</p> <p>I had to make stakeholders of Sahave to be aligned with our mission and vision. Every for-profit organization has a for-profit motive for stakeholders. Keeping the mission and vision as they come on board is very important for me. I don’t want them to be deviating from our mission and vision in the eyes of making profit. People first, and then profit following. That was my intention in creating benefit corporation. I have been studying this for the last three years. I was lucky enough to get a partner like Kings Council and Cross Foundation who knows how to set up a benefit corporation. I was looking for somebody to develop it, keeping this mode of people first and profit next. If I have that as part of the DNA, it’s a success for me. That was the intention.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is the power of the form and why I think it’s taken hold. Social profit is about people as well as materials and money to solve problems. This is disruptive. I think of Airbnb. I think of Uber. Now we have Sahave, here in place to help make a difference and help us connect with one another in ways we weren’t able to, and providing us an opportunity to be more global in our approach to things. That is something.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Hey Russ, let’s spell that to make sure people get to the right website. Sahave. Thank you. There is a lot of information on that website. Sahave.org.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s a great place to go. We want to help bring this to people, help people find this, enroll in it, use it. That is the best way to get a feel for it. It’s just a wonderful platform for people to come together.</p> <p>Prior to your building this platform, what is it that is missing for your typical nonprofit to attract millennials and Gen Z workers or supporters?</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> As you mentioned, without money, there is no operations. That is a big issue with millennials. They should see the money there. What you mentioned about charity organizations as a third sector today, they don’t see that money. That was a primary factor for them: getting attracted to other for-profit organizations. With what we have created on this platform is we created our own currency, which is called Kindness Currency. It’s our trademark. There is a way somebody can exchange kindness within them with some other person right next to them and earn Kindness. It all goes back to karma. What you give is what you get back. Here, with Kindness currency, you are measuring your own social impact in the community. The person, every individual, millennials are looking for that feeling in them. How do I measure my kindness that I have done and the impact I created? With that intention is why we have created Kindness Currency, which gives them an opportunity to exchange kindness with anybody, neighbor helping neighbor. That neighbor doesn’t have to help that neighbor back. They can help others. It’s a pass-on method. It allows them to build that kind of social impact without using money, using your time that you’re giving to kindness. For example, in yoga, you don’t calculate time. The life of a person is in terms of number of breaths. You could take in one second three breaths, and then you could take one breath. A person has the number of breaths defined when they are born. Kindness should connect to that because that is what is directly connecting the time in your life with materialistic life, what we are doing today. As a platform, Sahave is getting you back as a human within you doing service to each other.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That has been a challenge for nonprofits to try to measure that impact. Social profit is a term that the author David Grant came up with when he wrote a book about it. Hugh talks about what we call return on life. I call it return on influence, return on impact to stay in the ROI frame. There are a lot of nonprofits that have difficulty framing that and showing that impact. It looks like Sahave is a vehicle for helping us to measure impact beyond dollars and cents, which is the biggest challenge for nonprofits. Am I on track? What do you think of that?</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> You are perfectly on track. Humanity coming out of heart is perfect for Sahave because that is how you can create charity in community. That is the movement. Sahave is creating within every individual to have that kind of feeling at every moment making it real time for them. It’s key for the next generation.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Our primary problem I would surmise has been communication. What would you say are the most common barriers to communication between the generations?</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> Communication is a big thing. As long as we have existed as humans, we have had this problem. Every generation thinks differently. It’s tough to put ourselves into their mindset. When we have defined our own lifestyle in certain ways and never previous generations, the majority of them, they don’t focus on changing themselves looking in the future. I’m saying just the majority of them, not everyone. There is still a population of that generation knowing what’s important to learn. That transformation is always happening between industrial revolutions from generation one to two, two to three, three to four. We have made certain changes in our community. From ground level to government level. It’s a continuous learning process. My feeling when it comes to communications. That gap will happen only when someone can peek into others’ hearts with their view.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s a question of being open to a different point of view. What are some ways that we could do that today? There are a lot of different nonprofit leaders listening to this. Some are older. They’re my age and Hugh’s age. What are two or three things that you would tell a baby boomer that she/he could do that would help shift them in the direction of being more effective at communicating and connecting with millennials?</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> I’m in your shoes, Russell, when I started this journey. I identified this problem. I started going to interacting with them. What does their mindset look like? They are more gamers. We know that. But at the same time, if you get involved with them and play a game, you will learn their behavior in that game. They are naturally connected to that game. Our generation, we just see it as a thing. We never connect ourselves to that, but they do. They even change their mindset based on that. They think everything else outside is the same. Getting them to their natural instinct is difficult. If we can tap into their mindset and understand why they are not doing that, and if they intend to do something, for example a charity or a donation, a dollar donation to homeless-</p> <p>We just did this interesting project with millennials in Chicago. We picked a homeless woman. Our goal was to raise $100 only from millennials and Gen Zs on that day. We went to ask millennials for $1 or $2, not much. What experience would we get from them? What is their mindset? They came forward and gave us a lot of information about “I will give you a dollar, but I don’t know how you’re going to use it. I don’t trust you. I know you will give this to a homeless shelter, but I don’t know how they use this dollar. I need that transparency. How do I get it?” We learned that. We failed in that project the first day.</p> <p>We went back again the next day. How do we provide the transparency to them? We approached them and enrolled them on this Google form. We collected $1 from each of them. We provided a complete transparency of every donation that is being collected and how we have utilized the dollar, delivered it to the homeless shelter. The homeless shelter was kind enough to give information about how they are using that to buy food for them. We provided every moment information to them. Information has flowed to them. At the end, after that project was completed, we went back to ask for feedback. “Wow, I see my dollar how it has been utilized in this transparency.” The platforms, not a lot of millennials are on those crowdfunding platforms today because transparency is lacking. That is how we learn about them with this project.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s good. Are there ways nonprofits can bridge the gap between their expectations and the expectations of the millennials/Gen Z supporters and prospects? Building trust sounds like the crux of it. Are there some other ways that they can function to move closer, to bridge that gap? <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> The biggest thing I am thinking is we have to have the leadership transformation in charities. We need them to come on board and continue the service. How do we do that is a big question mark still for me. I’m still learning about that. A couple of things I observe about them today is they are more looking at for-profit money-making organizations as they carry a cross as part of their growth. They don’t see that in nonprofits today. To utilize their skills, marketing requires a different kind of technical skill today. It’s not the same anymore as it used to be. It requires a mix of technical skills and the different mindset to run a successful marketing campaign today. Traditionally, marketing has been non-technical. That gives you an example of what skills we are looking at as individuals. What is their growth? How will their careers build if what they are doing is important to them? How do we address that as nonprofits? I don’t know.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Every favorite radio station is WIIFM, What’s In It For Me? That can be shifted to What’s In It From Me? Part of what Sahave does is it creates a way to really engage people. To engage people, you have to give them what they want. It’s that simple, whatever type of business or organization. Give people what they want. It’s finding out how to do that. I think one of the big differences today versus my youth is that the days going down the career path and starting with a job and working for 40 years and going off into the sunset to retire are over. There are multiple career changes. People want to expand. I’m seeing people who want to expand. Be more, do more, do work that matters. You can’t do that sitting in one place. What type of experience can you deliver to those people, whether they are your donors, whether they serve on your board, whether they are your staff or employees? They are there because what nonprofits need from people is time, talent, and treasure. If somebody loves what you’re doing enough to give you one, they will probably give you the other two if it’s in their means. It’s having that conversation and making that connection. Maybe we’re falling down on that.</p> <p>What do you see are the biggest benefits of finding ways to bridge those gaps in where we are now and where we could go?</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> Career paths are critical. As an individual with a technology background, I see artificial intelligence is going to play a bigger role in our community, not as technology. I’m talking about a community level. It’s going to play a bigger role by 2030. It disrupts the way we live today. How we are living today is not going to be the same in 2030. We need an alternative for humans to connect to each other in that environment. This is just a theory. What kind of technology, artificial intelligence will disrupt in our community? We don’t know. We just know what is coming. How it will impact how we are living, we don’t know. We can just speculate. It could be worse. It could be better. For example, unemployment will grow definitely. What will the growth rate be in 2030? A lot of information is happening. A lot of low-cost methods of implementing technology are coming out. Which is going to disrupt the way so far we have been living within a community where we are making wealthy social profits and for-profit segments. We are living in that at every moment today.</p> <p>What is in it for me in terms of money is a priority today. That nature when a community changes from that demand for money goes down and there is no demand. Our essential things to live are food, shelter, and clothes. That is all. It comes down to those three things. When you can’t make money, how will you get those three things? We can’t imagine today in this environment. To put ourselves in 2030 and what we will face and how we will train and educate our future generations to be ready for that, I don’t see that happening today. Preparing ourselves with technology, making changes in our communities. We are not putting them in the right path for the future. That will be a big challenge. Especially with the mindset, what is in it for me in terms of benefits of money only has a significant impact on charities.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is what I love about this platform. In looking around, there are places where people have meetings of the mind. There is a magnificent blog area. There is a place for people to come together and have conversations and connect. This is the way to move forward. It’s about collaboration, connection, getting out of the old thought paradigm and working in a silo and becoming part of a community. It’s about community. If we can find a way to make it global, that will solve our problems. The nature of hunger, the nature of homelessness, the nature of disease, these things that are persistent as such that it takes all of us working together to try to make a big difference.</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> Exactly. That is the collaboration strategy on Sahave. That is the reason I want it to be a global platform. Collaborative platform. This integrates kindness without conversion into dollars. There is an exchange of kindness happening here, which has an economic impact for charities and for communities. It really depends on how this Kindness Currency will transform in the next 12 years by 2030. My intention for introducing kindness as an exchange within charity arena will bring us back into what we are as humans and our necessities at the bottom level. That was my intention of introducing kindness currency.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s important to have us. That is where that struggle has been to measure what matters. It’s all about making things better for all of humanity. This is why nonprofits are here. We’re here to make a difference and impact the community and help us bring people together. That’s what it’s all about. Having a place and a method to come together and talk about it is what Sahave provides on a global scale. I am very excited about it. Sahave.org. Go there and sign up.</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> Thank you. Sahave. You can also contact me directly at Pradeep@sahave.org. That is my email address. If you have any questions about how to use this platform for nonprofit organizations and also for individuals. I am always there to-</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Pradeep, thank you for this information today, and Russell for such a great interview. We have given out the website, Sahave.org. We want people to go there and join. There is more to be gained by working together than trying to work in silos. I think it’s primarily people don’t have the experience, the knowledge, or the tools to be able to move into the collaborative space in a substantial way. Russell’s wisdom and the conversations we have had with people is to find out what other people are interested in and what they want. Russell, I have learned a lot from you. Pradeep, I want to learn how to roll my r’s. You bring forth a sense of calm as you’re talking. You’re all in on this venture. SynerVision is helping you launch and supporting this platform because we know it will bring some energy to all the nonprofits that are struggling in this area of connecting communications.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from WordSprint*</p> <p>Pradeep, what do you want to leave people with before Russell closes out this really great interview?</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> I want to mention our relationship with SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We can provide some grants through our relationship to nonprofits who are interested in working with Sahave and building this platform and using this and providing some feedback to us. Very nice questions, Russell on how we bridge this gap between millennials; as you have heard me, I am not 100%. There are always gaps. As you grow, you learn more gaps, then you fill them in. I am looking for nonprofit organizations out there who would like to work with me in building this Sahave platform in our relationship with SynerVision Leadership Foundation to provide some grants to use our platform and build it to close that gap somewhat, which is our critical need in this time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you for that. We are accepting donations to support you. We are giving away a few scholarships for people to get in there and try that. It’s good for you and your team to be involved. Reach out to us after you register. pradeep@sahave.org, he will respond to you. Pradeep, thank you for being a guest today on <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> This is an important product you’re producing.</p> <p><strong>Pradeep:</strong> Thank you very much, Hugh. Thank you for your time, Russell.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thank you. As always, thank you to those folks who join us and support us regularly. We look forward to seeing you again. Don’t forget the name, Sahave.org. You will be seeing a lot more of them and a lot more of us. Thanks as always.</p> <p>Thank you for making 2018 a spectacular year for SynerVision. I’m looking forward to 2019, where we can go out there and make a difference in the lives of people. As Pradeep so eloquently put it, in a way that I don’t always remember and I don’t always think about, our work is saving lives out there. Thank you, stick with it, and we will be here in 2019.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Review of the New SynerVision Online Community</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/review-of-the-new-synervision-online-community</link>
      <description>Join and Shape Your Online Community for Community Builders A Preview with Russ and Hugh
 Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis preview features and opportunities for leaders in the newly
  Hugh Ballou
   Russell Dennis
  launched SynerVision Leadership Community for Community Builders.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2018 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
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      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
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      <itunes:subtitle>Russell and Hugh share the benefits of joining a community of peers</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Join and Shape Your Online Community for Community Builders A Preview with Russ and Hugh
 Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis preview features and opportunities for leaders in the newly
  Hugh Ballou
   Russell Dennis
  launched SynerVision Leadership Community for Community Builders.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Join and Shape Your Online<br> Community for Community Builders<br> A Preview with Russ and Hugh</strong></h1> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis</strong> preview features and opportunities for leaders in the newly</p>  <p>Hugh Ballou</p>   <p>Russell Dennis</p>  <p>launched SynerVision Leadership Community for Community Builders.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>A Nonprofit Is a Business Just Like Any Business with Alan Harrison</title>
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      <description>A Nonprofit is a Businesswith Alan Harrison
 [caption id="attachment_1275" align="alignleft" width="200"]     Alan Harrison, CDCF[/caption]
 Alan Harrisonis a nonprofit executive with over 25 years of for-profit and nonprofit experience in a diverse set of roles. Born in Pennsylvania, Harrison holds a B.S. degree in Biology from Geneva College and an M.S. degree in Biology (specializing in Ecology) from Lehigh University.
 There is a pervading view that nonprofits are somehow less serious than for-profits. I have run across this several times in many situations. Some people think that somehow the money just rolls in and work is a big party every day. There is also a view that everyone works for a pittance and you couldn’t really support yourself or a family working for a nonprofit. These views could not be further from the truth.
 After many years of experience in nonprofit I have learned that a nonprofit is a business, just a different kind of business. For-profit businesses make goods or services in pursuit of money for shareholders or owners. This is the “profit” piece. Nonprofit businesses also make goods or services. The difference is that the nonprofit business is not in it to make money for an owner or shareholder, they are there to make good of some sort for a group of people that will benefit from the good or service. In simplified terms I like to think of nonprofits as business that make good not money.
 Nonprofits businesses are not a party. Everyone who works at a nonprofit goes to work every day and works just like anyone else. If you do your job you keep it and succeed, if you don’t do it you get disciplined and eventually lose it. Nonprofit businesses have all the same functions as for-profit businesses. There are finance, HR and IT people. Someone cleans the offices and takes out the trash. Any function you can associate with a for-profit business is there with a nonprofit business. It may look a little different, but it is there. The fundraisers are analogous to the sales people in a for-profit business.
 Read the Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. It’s kind of an interesting day here in central western Virginia. We’re expecting some snow tonight and a storm on the weekend. How is it in the Rocky Mountain high of Colorado?
 Russell Dennis: Well, it’s actually sunny today. It’s a bit chilly, but it’s very sunny. We’re just going through a typical Colorado winter. I don’t worry about it. If I don’t like it, it will be different in five or ten minutes.
 Hugh: It may make people feel cool because they might be listening to this podcast in the heat of summer. Think about how cool it is. I got a little hair standing up here. Russell, you don’t have that problem. You can’t see him on the podcast, but he’s a smart man – he doesn’t waste any energy growing hair.
 Russell: I haven’t had a bad hair day in a long time.
 Hugh: I’m thinking you haven’t had a bad day. It’s always a good day with Russell David Dennis. We have a person who is in the space of philosophy and practice that we are, Russell. It’s Alan Harrison. We met on LinkedIn and had some conversations. He said he’d like to share his wisdom with nonprofit leaders. Alan, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Alan Harrison: Thank you, Hugh, and thank you, Russell for having me here. I’m very excited to be here and looking forward to today.
 Hugh: Tell people a little bit about who Alan Harrison is.
 Alan: I’ve been in the nonprofit space for over 15 years now. Before that, I was in the for-profit space for almost that long. I spent a lot of time in the water treatment industry. I have a Masters degree in biology. Toward the end of that part of my career, I wanted to make a change and moved into the nonprofit space. I moved from technology into operations. Most of my nonprofit career has been spent in administration, HR. I have been vice president of administration. I have been CEO of a small nonprofit, running things from an administrative and financial standpoint as opposed to technology. That was a big change for me, but I have never looked back. I enjoy it and really love the nonprofit space.
 Hugh: We are talking about good sound business principles today. You’ve come from the business world. We use the funny terms “for-profit” and “nonprofit.” Right there is where we set up a false premise with the word “nonprofit.” We have had guests who talk about it being a social benefit or a tax-exempt charity. One guest gave us the title “for-purpose” organization.
 You and I spoke a little bit last week. You’re very passionate about the principles that you teach and bring to this tax-exempt world of charities that are really cause-based. We’re working to improve people’s lives. The bottom line is ROL, Return on Life, the impact that we have in people’s lives. Let’s start from why do you think it’s important that these kinds of organizations, which we will use the word “nonprofit” because that is the sector we’re talking to—we’re talking to clergy, leaders of associations that are tax-exempt like a chamber of commerce, or cause-based community nonprofits, all over. Why is it important for us as leaders in this sector to understand business principles?
 Alan: The first point that I would make is that a nonprofit is a business. I like the term “not for profit” because we can make a profit. There is nothing wrong with making money. Certainly we raise money. Nonprofits offer goods and services, and they charge for those things. There is nothing wrong with that. The difference is that they take that profit not to make money; they take that profit to make good. There is a principle they are trying to advance, whether that is feeding people who are hungry, trying to make people healthy, global health, or just the health clinic in your local community. It doesn’t matter. They are taking that money, whether it’s a profit or a donation, and using it to make good in that community. The reason we need to keep business principles in mind is because it is a business. All the things that a business does, a nonprofit does. We have finance people, and administrators. We sign contracts. We have buildings we need to upkeep. We have employees. We have HR departments. Everything that a business does, a nonprofit has to do as well. You might say they don’t have sales, but they really do. Fundraisers are analogous to sales. Every function you find in a business or a nonprofit you would find in the opposite organization.
 Hugh: We set ourselves up for failure when we minimize those things you just talked about. We expect it’s going to happen. Even at the detriment, we say we can’t make a profit, or we can’t charge too much money for that, or we have to dumb down. What are some of the scripts people tell themselves and others that make some of those things you talked about difficult?
 Alan: First off, when you talk to people about a nonprofit, they think somehow the money just comes. One of the biggest errors I see people make in politics and the nonprofit world is they assume that if they do good or the right thing, somebody will support that. That’s not the case anymore. There was a time a lot of years ago where you could go to a donor and say, “Hey, I’m doing really great work. You need to support what I’m doing.” The donor would say, “You are doing good work. I do want to support what you’re doing.” It’s not that way anymore. We’re well past that. We are in a time where it’s an exchange of value. Just like if I buy a pair of pants from a clothier near me, I want to give him money. That is the value he gets; the value I get is a nice pair of pants. It’s no different for a nonprofit. If I am going to a donor, I need to explain to them the value proposition: what they are getting for the dollars they are giving to me. It may be marketing. It may be publicity. It may be something that encourages their employees because employees are interested in social enterprises and organizations that make a difference. Whatever that value proposition is, I need to go to my donors with. A lot of people don’t realize that. They think if they are doing a good thing, they will give me money. The great nonprofits, the ones that are really successful, understand that.
 Hugh: Those in business build a strategy. At least, some of them do. At SynerVision, we consider the strategy to be central. As you know, I’m a musical conductor. If we don’t have a musical score, nobody knows what to play. We go into our space with all our volunteers and board members and staff and say, “Go,” and they don’t know where to go. There is a lack of understanding where they can be engaged and what they are supposed to do. Part of that is understanding what our brand is and what our unique value proposition is. You just spoke about value propositions when you are making a presentation. I don’t think we’re very good at either defining it or expressing it. What do you say about how we get there?
 Alan: You mentioned brand, which is important for a nonprofit. As a nonprofit, you have your reputation and your brand. People need to be crystal clear on what that brand is. When you think of a good nonprofit, the Nature Conservancys, and the CAREs, and the American Cancer Society, people know what those organizations are about. They know exactly what the American Cancer Society is. They know exactly what CARE does. They understand that brand identity. Those organizations understand their brand identity is what is out there. It’s no different than Google. People know Google’s brand identity and Microsoft’s brand identity. It’s the same kind of an idea. It needs to be marketed the same way as those organizations would.
 One thing I always recommend to a nonprofit is get your values. Know what your values are. Understand what they are. Put them first and foremost on your webpage. If you go to the really successful organizations, one of the first things you will see on their webpages is what their values are. Lead with those values. Lead with that brand. Lead with that understanding. That is what a lot of nonprofits don’t do. They don’t have a 30-second elevator speech where they can distill their brand down into a few short sentences that make people go, “Oh, I’ll get that.” That will allow you to understand whether you can connect with that person. Some people won’t be interested in what your mission is, and that’s fine. But it will allow you to connect with those who are interested in your mission and find out who those people are pretty quickly into the conversation. You don’t want to spend six months or a year cultivating a donor who really isn’t interested in your mission. You want someone who will be clued into what you’re doing.
 Hugh: Russell, that’s one of the messages you bring up very often with board members and donors. Find out what they’re interested in. Do you want to chime in and come up with another question for him?
 Russell: Everyone has a different motivation. When you’re talking about value, which is a word that is rarely used in nonprofit circles, the value is in the mind of the supporter. You’re going to be talking to multiple audiences. You have a message for volunteers. You have a message for donors. You have a message for people in the community.
 Really what we’re talking about is profit. With nonprofits, there is a profit. There is a social profit. There is a monetary profit. The discussion that Alan started with values, that is very important because when you look at where it is that you see yourself fitting, where you want people to go as a result of being exposed to your services and products, what is it that you ultimately want them to have? What is the experience they’re going to get? You almost have to set the table for your own measures in a sense by explaining where people start and where they end up. That is something that you measure. Everything doesn’t fit in a pivot table. There is a place for where Berny calls the dolphin story and the results. People want results. Donors are very sophisticated now. Are you delivering results? What do those results look like? As a business, it’s really important to run a business like a business. It’s about good stewardship. Alan is kind of like me. You had a different career, and then you transitioned into this career. What would you say was the biggest surprise when you got when you moved out of your old career into the nonprofit space? What was the one thing that was the biggest shock to you?
 Alan: I think for me, when I moved from the for-profit to the nonprofit world, I remember I was moving into the Nature Conservancy. Someone there called my old boss and said, “Can Alan do this job?” He said, “Of course he can. It’s an NGO.” That’s what surprised me. I have never been anywhere where people work harder or where people were more talented than the nonprofits I work in. People have this view that it’s kind of a party or money somehow comes rolling in or we don’t really work; we just lay around all day. That to me was the biggest surprise.
 When I went to the CDC Foundation, it was during the ebola crisis in Africa. I have never seen people more dedicated, work harder, more talented, than anywhere I have been in my life. This idea that people aren’t working or people don’t work hard really was a surprise to me. I was taken aback. I have become a nonprofit evangelist when I talk to people. We have analogous to sales. We have finance. We have HR. We have IT. Every function you can think of, people are working hard. You have to do your job just like anywhere else. If you don’t do your job, you lose your job. There is this view that somehow it’s not serious.
 Hugh: What Russell and I do as a resource for leadership and strategy and performance, it’s harder in this sector. I served inside the church for 40 years. There is a really good case of dumbing down and not having the standards you’re talking about. It’s the same as any other generic nonprofit, except churches think people will walk in the door. We have lost in the mainline denominations our relevance. I still believe in it. I’m a critic of it to help it. But it’s the mindset that we develop that is a scarcity mindset. With scarcity thinking, the mindset ought to be abundance. God has given you abundance, but you have to be a good steward of it.
 The piece that Russell brought in, one of our colleagues, Berny Dohrmann, runs a business growth conference for 25 years. It attracts entrepreneurs. They come in from the business side and the nonprofit side. There are characteristics that are the same. The dolphin thing he was referring to is “Here is my sweet little dolphin,” but there is no substance to your ask. You just are petting your dolphin, and you want everyone else to pet it.
 The point you’re making is there is a quantifiable value you bring. Instead of talking about ROI, we talk about ROl, Return on Impact. It’s really bottom line impact. We take your values. We have to be clear on what we value. As we do strategy, we take core values to another level. People write these words that they don’t understand. We develop guiding principles. How do you make decisions based on these concepts? Being a principle-based organization, what we’re now teaching nonprofits is how to develop your strategy and develop the principles. You will take that strategy and integrate it into performance, which is as you probably have experienced is a big gap. We have a lot of well-intended, passionate, dedicated people who are low on the performance scale. Really, these people want to do more. In many circumstances, they work harder here than they do in their day jobs.
 Do you want to come back at us with some other thoughts?
 Alan: I would agree that people work hard in nonprofits. Some of the people I have talked to who transitioned from for-profits to nonprofits are saying they work harder now than they ever did in the for-profit world. You have to wear a lot of hats. Money is scarce. There is a lot of challenges.
 Another challenge for nonprofits you touched on is the impact and measuring the impact. Donors want to hear about impact. That can be a challenge for nonprofit. In a for-profit, you can look at your balance sheet and your P&amp;L sheet for the quarter. You can say you sold 27,000 widgets. I made this kind of gross margin and net profit. It’s fairly simple. But for a nonprofit, if you are a single cause nonprofit, you feed hungry families for example, or you feed homeless people, you have one number to work with. But a lot of nonprofits do multiple things. It becomes extremely challenging to measure impact. I have been in nonprofits that had up to 80 or 100 active projects. How do you measure impact across 100 active projects? That becomes difficult. You start to focus on ones that are most important or most impactful. There is no question that you don’t just have a number. We did 27% this year. Our gross margin is 12%. That is not how a nonprofit works. When you look at your impact, you have to break it down by project, by population you serve, by the areas you serve. It’s a huge challenge for a nonprofit.
 Russell: I think the place people have to begin at is- I was looking at a book, The Social Profit Handbook by David Grant. A lot of times, when we think of having programs evaluated or people coming in and assessing, we look at it like other people assessing us. The model that we teach at SynerVision and where people bring to is look at how can we do what we’re doing better once we decide what it is that we’re doing. If we don’t make a decision or try to measure what we’re doing, other people will do that for us. The purpose of evaluation is not to get a grade to give a better check. The purpose of evaluating and benchmarking is to get better at what you’re doing, deliver more impact, and find new ways to collect that information so people can understand that value. It’s having the people you’re working with talk about how being affiliated with your organization has made a difference. There is a lot that goes into storytelling. It captures that information that won’t fit neatly on the pivot table that helps us connect with people emotionally that helps define some of that impact. That ROI is return on impact, or return on influence, these types of things. The thought pattern that people have around nonprofits really needs to change. You addressed that very well, Alan: how people seem to think it’s quick and easy. There are a lot of people who are reluctant to write a check because they say, “I’m not interested in paying your rent. I want to make sure every dollar I give you goes into the program.” If you don’t have an infrastructure to deliver it, you don’t have a program. How do we create a shift in that focus with people? What are some things you’ve done to help shift that thinking around?
 Alan: I think your point about overhead is important. No one goes to Google and says, “You shouldn’t have a finance department. Those should be all volunteers. You shouldn’t have an IT department. Those all should be volunteers.” You know what you get with volunteers. You have very dedicated people who have little time, and they can’t necessarily put in the time you need them to put in. Just like any other business, you have to pay for what you need.
 Imagine a large nonprofit depending on a volunteer CFO. It will be a mess. Or a volunteer IT department. It will be a mess. You have to have a well-oiled, well-run organization. You’re competing in the same talent pool. There is a subset of people who want to be in nonprofit. They love the nonprofit, they love the mission, and I honestly believe the employees who stick around in nonprofits are the ones who love the mission. You’re still competing for the same talent pool. If I need to hire a CFO, that CFO could go to another organization or for-profit. The idea that we shouldn’t be paying for overhead, or whatever that number is, doesn’t make a lot of sense.
 The finances need to be transparent. They need to be reasonable. You shouldn’t be spending 90% on overhead obviously. But you have to have enough of a spending to hire people who have families and car payments and house payments and those kinds of things. I think we need to have honest conversations with the foundations, the corporations, and the other donors who seem to have this mindset that this should all be for free. It’s not. They want a good product. They want excellent services to the population that we serve, or the cause that we serve, so they have to understand that comes with a cost. You have to have good people to have a good product. You have to have good people to offer a good service. You have to pay those people so they can live; they have to send their kids to school and pay their car payments.
 Russell: The flip side of that is there are some nonprofits who think, “Hey, we’re doing worthy work. Why aren’t people coming? Why won’t they write us a check?” There is that other piece where from the side of the nonprofit, they don’t always understand what people are looking for, what motivates them to support a cause. How do you have that conversation with nonprofit leaders to get them to understand the sort of things that will motivate people to lend that support?
 Alan: You touched on it when you talked about value. It’s an exchange of value. There is some value that that donor has to be getting from the nonprofit, whether it’s a demonstration to their employee base that they are making a difference in the world and they are a socially conscious organization, whether it’s a marketing campaign that they can build around the work they’re doing with an organization, whether it’s something that makes them feel good. It doesn’t matter what that value is. What you have to do as a nonprofit is understand what value they’re interested in and determine if you can supply that value. If you can’t supply that value a particular donor is looking for, stop talking to that donor. You’re wasting your time, and you’re wasting their time. Find a different donor that would be interested in the value you offer.
 If I sell suits and somebody is not looking for a suit, I probably don’t need to talk to that person, and they probably don’t need to talk to me. It’s the same thing.
 Russell: Is there a point where you say a lot of nonprofit leaders hanging on beyond where they probably should simply say ‘Next”? Is it a common problem for nonprofit leaders to continue to try to implement strategies to attract donors that they might just not be the right fit for?
 Alan: I think it’s harder for a nonprofit leader to say that. As nonprofit leaders, we care so much about what we do. We care so much about our cause that it’s hard to imagine someone else wouldn’t care about that.
 It’s hard to see maybe that someone doesn’t care about that. We’ll keep pushing a value that maybe that other person isn’t interested in. But there is somebody who is interested. Your time is better spent finding that person who is interested.
 Hugh: It’s a good match. People have a philanthropic side. They want to volunteer. But really, they don’t want to volunteer for everything. We sometimes talk people into volunteering when they really don’t want to. Then they don’t perform. We blame them when it’s really our fault. We have a vision of what they ought to be interested in instead of having a conversation. That also goes with putting people on boards and putting them in slots, like a treasurer, secretary, communications. We put people in the wrong place.
 Going back to what you were saying about the misconceptions, I am not sure if you have seen the TED talk by Dan Pallotta, “The Way We Think About Charity is Dead Wrong.” Have you seen that video?
 Alan: I haven’t.
 Hugh: Look it up. It’s the stuff you guys were talking about. We think we can’t spend money on marketing. We think we can’t take risks. We lose a few hundred dollars, and people will go insane. Disney has a $200 million flop on a movie or more than that today; that’s just the cost of doing business.
 The other one is this overhead thing. It’s a fallacy. You’re paying people. We can’t pay decent salaries. You’re going to give up this big corporate job and work for less money, and we expect you to do the job of three people for a third of the pay. There are some really unreasonable expectations we have. Those are the biggest myths, which are totally wrong in my book. What do you think?
 Alan: I agree. I have seen people on boards that clearly weren’t interested. They don’t do anything. Six months later, they resign. It doesn’t make sense. You have to understand what drives that person. You have to take the time. The myth that you can’t spend money or take risks, one of my favorite quotes is from Samuel Johnson, who was one of the Founding Fathers of the country. He said, “If all danger must be removed, then nothing will ever be accomplished.” The idea is that if you reduce the risk to zero, you won’t accomplish anything. That is an absolute fallacy that we can’t have any risk in a nonprofit organization. All risks have to be considered. They have to be logical. You have to have reasons behind them. When things fail, you have to learn from them. I had a boss years ago who said, “Fail faster.” I thought that was crazy until I realized what he was saying was there is going to be failures in life. Accept them when you get to them, move past them, and get on to something else. Things are going to fail. You will try a program that won’t work. You will try to serve a new population that doesn’t work. You have to accept that risk you took in trying to serve that new population isn’t working and get on to something where you really can have an impact.
 Hugh: Underneath of what you were talking about, this conversation of embracing good, sound operational principles, they are the same for a for-profit or a not-for-profit organization. But there are some subtle differences that actually we have a lot more regulations in the nonprofit arena. We have to be careful with how money is used. Especially if there is designated gifts. If people give us money for a certain thing. There is a public persona.
 You mentioned American Cancer Society, which is a curious organization to me. We are talking about overhead. But they raise tons of money. Only 12% goes to research. That is a classic example of exorbitant salaries and overbenefiting the employees. Every little goes to the end result. However, people look past that somehow and there is a lot of money donated to that organization. There is a persona, a marketing piece that is evidently very strong.
 But on the other side, we feel defeated because other organizations are taking all the money. Last time I checked, money is a renewable resource. Part of our thinking, it’s fundamentally, where I’m headed with this, sorry to ramble, underneath this is leadership. Nothing happens without leadership. The organization is the reflection of the leader. There are organizations that do a very good job like American Cancer Society of presenting themselves in marketing, but there are other organizations who probably have 10% overhead and make a lot of impact, but they are vastly compromised by their lack of effective board and lack of revenue. What do you think of leadership as being an anchor for what we’re talking about?
 Alan: There is no question that you need a leader who understands that all of these things are important. If you have a leader in a nonprofit who only focuses on providing the service or whatever good the nonprofit is doing and doesn’t get out there and talk about the organization and market the organization, recognize how important branding and marketing is, you are not going to go very far.
 Another item that you touched on is accountability. It’s holding people accountable. A lot of people in nonprofits think we need to be nice. I would argue that we do need to be nice and treat people with dignity. But treating people with dignity and being nice to them does not mean not holding them accountable. Accountability is a big piece in nonprofits that can be a challenge because everybody wants to be nice. Sometimes you have to say this person isn’t working out, this project isn’t working out, this department isn’t working out, and make a change. You can do that in a kind way. You can do that in a way that preserves people’s dignity. But if you just let it slide, like I have seen happen, then you get mediocrity. Every organization is as strong as its weakest link. Every chain is as strong as its weakest link. It breathes down the whole organization. I would argue that leaders need to be focused on that accountability that sometimes is an issue in the nonprofit world.
 Hugh: We cause some of those problems. We put the wrong person in the wrong place, and then we are nice to them. They’re trying. They are bringing down your culture. They are representing your brand in a negative way. It’s damage control at that point.
 Alan: The brand has to come first. The mission has to come first. Everything that you do in the nonprofit has to be focused toward advancing the mission and advancing the brand. You always as a leader need to be asking yourself the question: Does this advance the mission in the best way? Does this advance the brand in the best way? I think a good leader can recognize, this isn’t working. We need to make a change. We brought this person on our board who isn’t interested. I need to have a conversation with that person. It takes some assertiveness and guts, but the leader has to be willing to make those kinds of changes and have those kinds of conversations in an organization. For some reason, they are more timid in nonprofit organizations than people are typically in for-profit organizations because it’s perceived as not being nice.
 Hugh: It’s being honest though. We want to be honest with people.
 Alan: That’s right.
 Hugh: Russell, it’s back to you.
 Russell: I think that honesty goes a long way, but honesty without compassion is brutality. It’s all in how you go about putting things out there. As we look at this environment today, there is the realization that business principles are so critical to being effective stewards of things that are entrusted to nonprofits. I think there is a whole lot of confusion, but there are still some very subtle and distinct differences between the nonprofit or social profit and the purely profit entity. What do you see as the most important distinctions to make between the for-profit and the social profit entity?
 Alan: It’s obvious that in the for-profit world, you are in it for the profit. You are trying to enrich shareholders. You are trying to enrich management. You are trying to have quarterly profits that increase every quarter. Anybody in the for-profit world is familiar with that. I have been there. We can’t forget what our mission is in a nonprofit. That ‘s the difference.
 You talked about having compassion. The nonprofit world is about manifesting that compassion in the larger world. That is really what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to take that compassion we have and manifest it in the larger world. I would argue that while we can learn from the for-profit, the for-profit can also learn from us. That compassion for employees, for the larger world, that goes a long way. I always use the word “dignity.” I think we need to treat people in a way that preserves their dignity, in a way that doesn’t threaten their dignity as a person. I think that the for-profit world would learn from a lot in some places. I would never say that all for-profits don’t treat people with dignity. But it’s much more common in that world. I think they would learn a lot from what nonprofits do in terms of treating people with compassion and dignity.
 Russell: Where do you think that you see more of a collaborative type of leadership? Another question I would ask is do you see some pathways to create more collaboration in both worlds? We are in a society today where people are really getting locked into their differences. I think we are suffering from it. How can collaboration as a way of life in both types of entities help us with our larger conversations with how we approach each other as people?
 Alan: I think nonprofits and for-profits should be collaborating with each other. One thing I like about the millennial generation is they really want to make a difference in the world. They have a lot of passion for recognizing what is wrong with the world, and wanting to make a difference. That becomes important just to have a work force in the for-profit world. As nonprofits, we can bring them opportunities to engage their employees in causes that are important to them, whether that is environmental things, whether it’s feeding the homeless, those sorts of things. We can give them direct volunteer opportunities. UPS has a goal to have 20 million hours of nonprofit volunteer time with their employees. Nonprofits need to step up and talk to all the organizations out there about the kind of opportunities we can offer them to engage their employees. In those kinds of volunteer efforts. Those things go a long way for both organizations. The nonprofit gets exposure and marketing. People come away saying, “Wow, this is great. I got to do this or do that.” The for-profit gets an engaged work force that says, “I work for a great company. They let me take a day off and go plant trees for this tree planting organization, or go feed people in the soup kitchen that didn’t have anything to eat that day.” I think those kinds of collaborations, which happen but probably don’t happen nearly as much as they should.
 Russell: If you get somebody that comes out of university, it was a little bit different when the three of us attended, but now you are looking at a situation where somebody comes out, particularly if they have done any graduate work, they have this massive debt that they have to deal with. You have career opportunities and private enterprise that are driven by stock prices. How would you make a case to get somebody who is very talented to choose a career in the social profit field knowing they are leaving all of these other things on the table, and they have this debt? How do you make a case that it’s really worthwhile to go into the nonprofit sector?
 Hugh: One thing I noticed with people who are coming out of university now is they don’t expect to work for the same company for 25 or 30 or 40 years and retire from that company. A lot of people in the millennial generation go into a job knowing I want to be here for two or three years. I want this to be a resume-builder. I want this to be a skill-builder. I want this to be an opportunity. Then I am going off to the next thing. I think as nonprofits, we have to accept that, not try to change it, not try to talk people into working somewhere for 30 years, but go into talking to them about what this opportunity is. This is an opportunity to build your resume, this is an opportunity to wear a lot of hats and gain a bunch of skills, this is an opportunity to be exposed to donors, some of whom are people you may want to work for someday. If we go into it with the idea that we understand what these people want, we understand what this particular market or employee wants, and offer them that, then you’re going to get more people saying, “I could go there for three years. That would be awesome to work with these big companies who are their donors and have volunteers. Then I can go onto the next thing.” I think accepting that approach of how they want to live their lives, they will be more interested in talking to us.
 Hugh: There is a lot of comments in this interview about money. I find the common perception is nonprofit leaders say, “If we just had the money, we could do more.” I come back with, “Can we see your strategy?” “I don’t have one.” “How do you define the board’s engagement on a scale of 1-10?” I get a 4.5. That’s the reason you don’t have money. If you had money, you probably wouldn’t get the results you want. Do you experience that as a definition of what is missing? Do you have a different take on what they need to do to earn it or attract it?
 Alan: I certainly agree with you that money is not the be all end all. An organization needs to be in a position to effectively use any money they get. If you have a board that is engaged at a 4, you’re right. I serve on a board, and it’s an extremely engaged board. The organization is doing very well financially. That is because the board is engaged, and the organization recognizes they need to do marketing and branding, and they need to measure impact, and they need to do all of the things that are important. It comes back to those principles. You have to be willing to accept things just won’t come rolling in. You will have to work for it. You will have to understand your audience. Pick the right audience. Execute. And demonstrate you have executed. It’s no different than a for-profit business in that way. There are a lot of differences about what we do and what we’re trying to accomplish. In terms of execution, there are a lot of similarities there.
 Hugh: Sometimes people get excited when I talk about team execution. They think they are going to shoot people.
 Alan: Let’s hope not. That’s not a good nonprofit.
 Hugh: We do it to ourselves. We bring in people because we have a perception they ought to be doing something rather than what Russell’s vestige is, is find out what they are interested in first. I talked about ROL, return on life. We have a mission. That is our intellectual property. We’re doing this. This is the value we bring. We want to get the money. We have this middle capital. This value capital. We want money capital, financial capital. But in the middle is relationship capital. We don’t invest in that. Part of what businesses do is they are really, the ones who are successful, building relationships with their customers. In our customers in the nonprofit world are our supporters, stakeholders, donors, board members, volunteers. We don’t do a good job of nurturing them, do we?
 Alan: No. Some organizations do a very good job of that, but others, again, don’t take the time, like you said, to really understand what they are. You need to meet people where they are, not where you want them to be. You need to be willing to invest the time and effort in really understanding what people are looking for. Then you have to ask yourself the honest question of whether you can give them that. If you can’t, you walk away. It’s not the right fit. I think that because we love what we do so much, we project our love for what we’re doing onto other people. That is a little bit of a pitfall for people in nonprofits.
 Hugh: It’s common, isn’t it? That’s a common scenario, isn’t it?
 Alan: Yeah, it’s very common. I don’t think it’s any different than any other world. People tend to project their own loves and desires and interests on other people. But when you are running a business, it’s dangerous, and it can be devastating.
 Hugh: I want to get one more thing on the table here before I go to the sponsor message. Russell and I serve leaders as an advisor. We don’t customarily use the word “consultant” or “coach” because there is so much gray around what that means. 90% of those people who say they are consultants give us a bad name. We have gone from consulting to insulting to advising. We have a paradigm in SynerVision that is a WayFinder. We partner and have some strategies to guide the process. But our job is to help leaders step up their own game. I find that the people struggling are the ones who want to figure it out for themselves. I find by and large the successful leaders have someone like one of us as an advisor, whatever they call them. Why do you think people are reluctant to pay for somebody to help them learn, help them be accountable, give them a process, connect them in different ways? Why do you think there is a reluctance for people to do that?
 Alan: I think there is a little bit of a stigma attached to having a coach. There is some view that if we have to get this guy a coach, there must be something wrong. He’s not doing his job. He’s not performing. My view is that one of the greatest gifts that an organization can offer an employee is coaching, to help them get better on what they do, to help them understand how to get through the challenges they are facing. I think that’s a huge gift an organization can offer an employee, whether it’s a senior executive or a manager, to help them get better at their job. That is a stigma of we had to get this guy a coach, or we had to get this woman a coach, she must not be doing a good job. People will look down at that. I think we have to be very clear that coaching is a positive. Support is a positive. None of us are an island. None of us can completely be effective at everything on our own. Everything has strengths and weaknesses, things they will be good at and not. Giving someone support is a greatest gift an organization can give an employee.
 Hugh: That’s a great answer. Russell, what do you think?
 Russell: I think having a trusted advisor is getting somebody that is outside of the scope of what you’re doing and not so attached to it that they may have blind spots. I have discovered that for me. When I work with other people, they have what I call a superpower. We can’t always define our superpowers. They are things that each of us do that are so easy for us that we tend to minimize it or blow it off. Or we may not even recognize it. When you talk to people around you and they say, “Oh, you did something,” and they will point out something you did. Having a system in place where you recognize everybody’s superpowers and you recognize one another’s superpowers is very important. Everybody’s working to their strengths that way. It’s honoring that. It’s honoring what you’re good at and having an outside perspective is how you can pull that genius that is right there in house. I find that when I’m working with organizations, they don’t know how much they don’t know. On the flip side of that, they don’t know how much they already know. Having somebody to help them channel all of that genius is valuable. They will get more out of it. Taking that time over the long haul to really get better at what you do and to define what you do and to find the right people to collaborate with, to serve, to have pay for their services, taking that time is critical. If you don’t take that time, you are serving the wrong people or reaching for the wrong people, you burn a lot of energy.
 Hugh: Alan, we have laid a lot of themes on the table today for people. You obviously have a lot of wisdom to share, a lot more than we can cover in this limited time. You have a lot of experience. You’re taking some time off for family. You will go for your next venture next year. I’m curious to say where you end up. Whomever gets you will be lucky because you bring a whole lot of value and wisdom to their organization.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 As we close out this really helpful podcast, Alan, what tip or thought do you want to leave with people before Russell closes us out?
 Alan: I think to boil everything down into a 15-second piece is that if you use business principles in a nonprofit and don’t forget the compassion and the mission, you will be successful. You will maximize your chance for success. I hope people can take that away and cogitate on that a bit and apply that to what they do in the nonprofit world.
 Russell: Alan Harrison, it has been a joy to sit and speak with you. What is the best way for people to reach you?
 Alan: If they find me on LinkedIn and try to send me a connection request, I think that’s probably the best way. I’m active on there. I would certainly love to make some new connections there. I want to thank both of you for today. This has been fun and stimulating for me. I always get my best ideas in conversation with other people who understand the subject. This was rewarding for me, and I hope it was rewarding for others as well.
 Russell: This is definitely rewarding work for us. That’s why we do it. If you can’t have any fun at it, why do it?
  
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      <pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2018 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7b57ec76-b329-11eb-9f0f-53d264b7ef2d/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>A Nonprofit is a Businesswith Alan Harrison [caption id="attachment_1275" align="alignleft" width="200"]     Alan Harrison, CDCF[/caption] Alan Harrisonis a nonprofit executive with over 25 years of for-profit and nonprofit experience...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>A Nonprofit is a Businesswith Alan Harrison
 [caption id="attachment_1275" align="alignleft" width="200"]     Alan Harrison, CDCF[/caption]
 Alan Harrisonis a nonprofit executive with over 25 years of for-profit and nonprofit experience in a diverse set of roles. Born in Pennsylvania, Harrison holds a B.S. degree in Biology from Geneva College and an M.S. degree in Biology (specializing in Ecology) from Lehigh University.
 There is a pervading view that nonprofits are somehow less serious than for-profits. I have run across this several times in many situations. Some people think that somehow the money just rolls in and work is a big party every day. There is also a view that everyone works for a pittance and you couldn’t really support yourself or a family working for a nonprofit. These views could not be further from the truth.
 After many years of experience in nonprofit I have learned that a nonprofit is a business, just a different kind of business. For-profit businesses make goods or services in pursuit of money for shareholders or owners. This is the “profit” piece. Nonprofit businesses also make goods or services. The difference is that the nonprofit business is not in it to make money for an owner or shareholder, they are there to make good of some sort for a group of people that will benefit from the good or service. In simplified terms I like to think of nonprofits as business that make good not money.
 Nonprofits businesses are not a party. Everyone who works at a nonprofit goes to work every day and works just like anyone else. If you do your job you keep it and succeed, if you don’t do it you get disciplined and eventually lose it. Nonprofit businesses have all the same functions as for-profit businesses. There are finance, HR and IT people. Someone cleans the offices and takes out the trash. Any function you can associate with a for-profit business is there with a nonprofit business. It may look a little different, but it is there. The fundraisers are analogous to the sales people in a for-profit business.
 Read the Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. It’s kind of an interesting day here in central western Virginia. We’re expecting some snow tonight and a storm on the weekend. How is it in the Rocky Mountain high of Colorado?
 Russell Dennis: Well, it’s actually sunny today. It’s a bit chilly, but it’s very sunny. We’re just going through a typical Colorado winter. I don’t worry about it. If I don’t like it, it will be different in five or ten minutes.
 Hugh: It may make people feel cool because they might be listening to this podcast in the heat of summer. Think about how cool it is. I got a little hair standing up here. Russell, you don’t have that problem. You can’t see him on the podcast, but he’s a smart man – he doesn’t waste any energy growing hair.
 Russell: I haven’t had a bad hair day in a long time.
 Hugh: I’m thinking you haven’t had a bad day. It’s always a good day with Russell David Dennis. We have a person who is in the space of philosophy and practice that we are, Russell. It’s Alan Harrison. We met on LinkedIn and had some conversations. He said he’d like to share his wisdom with nonprofit leaders. Alan, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Alan Harrison: Thank you, Hugh, and thank you, Russell for having me here. I’m very excited to be here and looking forward to today.
 Hugh: Tell people a little bit about who Alan Harrison is.
 Alan: I’ve been in the nonprofit space for over 15 years now. Before that, I was in the for-profit space for almost that long. I spent a lot of time in the water treatment industry. I have a Masters degree in biology. Toward the end of that part of my career, I wanted to make a change and moved into the nonprofit space. I moved from technology into operations. Most of my nonprofit career has been spent in administration, HR. I have been vice president of administration. I have been CEO of a small nonprofit, running things from an administrative and financial standpoint as opposed to technology. That was a big change for me, but I have never looked back. I enjoy it and really love the nonprofit space.
 Hugh: We are talking about good sound business principles today. You’ve come from the business world. We use the funny terms “for-profit” and “nonprofit.” Right there is where we set up a false premise with the word “nonprofit.” We have had guests who talk about it being a social benefit or a tax-exempt charity. One guest gave us the title “for-purpose” organization.
 You and I spoke a little bit last week. You’re very passionate about the principles that you teach and bring to this tax-exempt world of charities that are really cause-based. We’re working to improve people’s lives. The bottom line is ROL, Return on Life, the impact that we have in people’s lives. Let’s start from why do you think it’s important that these kinds of organizations, which we will use the word “nonprofit” because that is the sector we’re talking to—we’re talking to clergy, leaders of associations that are tax-exempt like a chamber of commerce, or cause-based community nonprofits, all over. Why is it important for us as leaders in this sector to understand business principles?
 Alan: The first point that I would make is that a nonprofit is a business. I like the term “not for profit” because we can make a profit. There is nothing wrong with making money. Certainly we raise money. Nonprofits offer goods and services, and they charge for those things. There is nothing wrong with that. The difference is that they take that profit not to make money; they take that profit to make good. There is a principle they are trying to advance, whether that is feeding people who are hungry, trying to make people healthy, global health, or just the health clinic in your local community. It doesn’t matter. They are taking that money, whether it’s a profit or a donation, and using it to make good in that community. The reason we need to keep business principles in mind is because it is a business. All the things that a business does, a nonprofit does. We have finance people, and administrators. We sign contracts. We have buildings we need to upkeep. We have employees. We have HR departments. Everything that a business does, a nonprofit has to do as well. You might say they don’t have sales, but they really do. Fundraisers are analogous to sales. Every function you find in a business or a nonprofit you would find in the opposite organization.
 Hugh: We set ourselves up for failure when we minimize those things you just talked about. We expect it’s going to happen. Even at the detriment, we say we can’t make a profit, or we can’t charge too much money for that, or we have to dumb down. What are some of the scripts people tell themselves and others that make some of those things you talked about difficult?
 Alan: First off, when you talk to people about a nonprofit, they think somehow the money just comes. One of the biggest errors I see people make in politics and the nonprofit world is they assume that if they do good or the right thing, somebody will support that. That’s not the case anymore. There was a time a lot of years ago where you could go to a donor and say, “Hey, I’m doing really great work. You need to support what I’m doing.” The donor would say, “You are doing good work. I do want to support what you’re doing.” It’s not that way anymore. We’re well past that. We are in a time where it’s an exchange of value. Just like if I buy a pair of pants from a clothier near me, I want to give him money. That is the value he gets; the value I get is a nice pair of pants. It’s no different for a nonprofit. If I am going to a donor, I need to explain to them the value proposition: what they are getting for the dollars they are giving to me. It may be marketing. It may be publicity. It may be something that encourages their employees because employees are interested in social enterprises and organizations that make a difference. Whatever that value proposition is, I need to go to my donors with. A lot of people don’t realize that. They think if they are doing a good thing, they will give me money. The great nonprofits, the ones that are really successful, understand that.
 Hugh: Those in business build a strategy. At least, some of them do. At SynerVision, we consider the strategy to be central. As you know, I’m a musical conductor. If we don’t have a musical score, nobody knows what to play. We go into our space with all our volunteers and board members and staff and say, “Go,” and they don’t know where to go. There is a lack of understanding where they can be engaged and what they are supposed to do. Part of that is understanding what our brand is and what our unique value proposition is. You just spoke about value propositions when you are making a presentation. I don’t think we’re very good at either defining it or expressing it. What do you say about how we get there?
 Alan: You mentioned brand, which is important for a nonprofit. As a nonprofit, you have your reputation and your brand. People need to be crystal clear on what that brand is. When you think of a good nonprofit, the Nature Conservancys, and the CAREs, and the American Cancer Society, people know what those organizations are about. They know exactly what the American Cancer Society is. They know exactly what CARE does. They understand that brand identity. Those organizations understand their brand identity is what is out there. It’s no different than Google. People know Google’s brand identity and Microsoft’s brand identity. It’s the same kind of an idea. It needs to be marketed the same way as those organizations would.
 One thing I always recommend to a nonprofit is get your values. Know what your values are. Understand what they are. Put them first and foremost on your webpage. If you go to the really successful organizations, one of the first things you will see on their webpages is what their values are. Lead with those values. Lead with that brand. Lead with that understanding. That is what a lot of nonprofits don’t do. They don’t have a 30-second elevator speech where they can distill their brand down into a few short sentences that make people go, “Oh, I’ll get that.” That will allow you to understand whether you can connect with that person. Some people won’t be interested in what your mission is, and that’s fine. But it will allow you to connect with those who are interested in your mission and find out who those people are pretty quickly into the conversation. You don’t want to spend six months or a year cultivating a donor who really isn’t interested in your mission. You want someone who will be clued into what you’re doing.
 Hugh: Russell, that’s one of the messages you bring up very often with board members and donors. Find out what they’re interested in. Do you want to chime in and come up with another question for him?
 Russell: Everyone has a different motivation. When you’re talking about value, which is a word that is rarely used in nonprofit circles, the value is in the mind of the supporter. You’re going to be talking to multiple audiences. You have a message for volunteers. You have a message for donors. You have a message for people in the community.
 Really what we’re talking about is profit. With nonprofits, there is a profit. There is a social profit. There is a monetary profit. The discussion that Alan started with values, that is very important because when you look at where it is that you see yourself fitting, where you want people to go as a result of being exposed to your services and products, what is it that you ultimately want them to have? What is the experience they’re going to get? You almost have to set the table for your own measures in a sense by explaining where people start and where they end up. That is something that you measure. Everything doesn’t fit in a pivot table. There is a place for where Berny calls the dolphin story and the results. People want results. Donors are very sophisticated now. Are you delivering results? What do those results look like? As a business, it’s really important to run a business like a business. It’s about good stewardship. Alan is kind of like me. You had a different career, and then you transitioned into this career. What would you say was the biggest surprise when you got when you moved out of your old career into the nonprofit space? What was the one thing that was the biggest shock to you?
 Alan: I think for me, when I moved from the for-profit to the nonprofit world, I remember I was moving into the Nature Conservancy. Someone there called my old boss and said, “Can Alan do this job?” He said, “Of course he can. It’s an NGO.” That’s what surprised me. I have never been anywhere where people work harder or where people were more talented than the nonprofits I work in. People have this view that it’s kind of a party or money somehow comes rolling in or we don’t really work; we just lay around all day. That to me was the biggest surprise.
 When I went to the CDC Foundation, it was during the ebola crisis in Africa. I have never seen people more dedicated, work harder, more talented, than anywhere I have been in my life. This idea that people aren’t working or people don’t work hard really was a surprise to me. I was taken aback. I have become a nonprofit evangelist when I talk to people. We have analogous to sales. We have finance. We have HR. We have IT. Every function you can think of, people are working hard. You have to do your job just like anywhere else. If you don’t do your job, you lose your job. There is this view that somehow it’s not serious.
 Hugh: What Russell and I do as a resource for leadership and strategy and performance, it’s harder in this sector. I served inside the church for 40 years. There is a really good case of dumbing down and not having the standards you’re talking about. It’s the same as any other generic nonprofit, except churches think people will walk in the door. We have lost in the mainline denominations our relevance. I still believe in it. I’m a critic of it to help it. But it’s the mindset that we develop that is a scarcity mindset. With scarcity thinking, the mindset ought to be abundance. God has given you abundance, but you have to be a good steward of it.
 The piece that Russell brought in, one of our colleagues, Berny Dohrmann, runs a business growth conference for 25 years. It attracts entrepreneurs. They come in from the business side and the nonprofit side. There are characteristics that are the same. The dolphin thing he was referring to is “Here is my sweet little dolphin,” but there is no substance to your ask. You just are petting your dolphin, and you want everyone else to pet it.
 The point you’re making is there is a quantifiable value you bring. Instead of talking about ROI, we talk about ROl, Return on Impact. It’s really bottom line impact. We take your values. We have to be clear on what we value. As we do strategy, we take core values to another level. People write these words that they don’t understand. We develop guiding principles. How do you make decisions based on these concepts? Being a principle-based organization, what we’re now teaching nonprofits is how to develop your strategy and develop the principles. You will take that strategy and integrate it into performance, which is as you probably have experienced is a big gap. We have a lot of well-intended, passionate, dedicated people who are low on the performance scale. Really, these people want to do more. In many circumstances, they work harder here than they do in their day jobs.
 Do you want to come back at us with some other thoughts?
 Alan: I would agree that people work hard in nonprofits. Some of the people I have talked to who transitioned from for-profits to nonprofits are saying they work harder now than they ever did in the for-profit world. You have to wear a lot of hats. Money is scarce. There is a lot of challenges.
 Another challenge for nonprofits you touched on is the impact and measuring the impact. Donors want to hear about impact. That can be a challenge for nonprofit. In a for-profit, you can look at your balance sheet and your P&amp;L sheet for the quarter. You can say you sold 27,000 widgets. I made this kind of gross margin and net profit. It’s fairly simple. But for a nonprofit, if you are a single cause nonprofit, you feed hungry families for example, or you feed homeless people, you have one number to work with. But a lot of nonprofits do multiple things. It becomes extremely challenging to measure impact. I have been in nonprofits that had up to 80 or 100 active projects. How do you measure impact across 100 active projects? That becomes difficult. You start to focus on ones that are most important or most impactful. There is no question that you don’t just have a number. We did 27% this year. Our gross margin is 12%. That is not how a nonprofit works. When you look at your impact, you have to break it down by project, by population you serve, by the areas you serve. It’s a huge challenge for a nonprofit.
 Russell: I think the place people have to begin at is- I was looking at a book, The Social Profit Handbook by David Grant. A lot of times, when we think of having programs evaluated or people coming in and assessing, we look at it like other people assessing us. The model that we teach at SynerVision and where people bring to is look at how can we do what we’re doing better once we decide what it is that we’re doing. If we don’t make a decision or try to measure what we’re doing, other people will do that for us. The purpose of evaluation is not to get a grade to give a better check. The purpose of evaluating and benchmarking is to get better at what you’re doing, deliver more impact, and find new ways to collect that information so people can understand that value. It’s having the people you’re working with talk about how being affiliated with your organization has made a difference. There is a lot that goes into storytelling. It captures that information that won’t fit neatly on the pivot table that helps us connect with people emotionally that helps define some of that impact. That ROI is return on impact, or return on influence, these types of things. The thought pattern that people have around nonprofits really needs to change. You addressed that very well, Alan: how people seem to think it’s quick and easy. There are a lot of people who are reluctant to write a check because they say, “I’m not interested in paying your rent. I want to make sure every dollar I give you goes into the program.” If you don’t have an infrastructure to deliver it, you don’t have a program. How do we create a shift in that focus with people? What are some things you’ve done to help shift that thinking around?
 Alan: I think your point about overhead is important. No one goes to Google and says, “You shouldn’t have a finance department. Those should be all volunteers. You shouldn’t have an IT department. Those all should be volunteers.” You know what you get with volunteers. You have very dedicated people who have little time, and they can’t necessarily put in the time you need them to put in. Just like any other business, you have to pay for what you need.
 Imagine a large nonprofit depending on a volunteer CFO. It will be a mess. Or a volunteer IT department. It will be a mess. You have to have a well-oiled, well-run organization. You’re competing in the same talent pool. There is a subset of people who want to be in nonprofit. They love the nonprofit, they love the mission, and I honestly believe the employees who stick around in nonprofits are the ones who love the mission. You’re still competing for the same talent pool. If I need to hire a CFO, that CFO could go to another organization or for-profit. The idea that we shouldn’t be paying for overhead, or whatever that number is, doesn’t make a lot of sense.
 The finances need to be transparent. They need to be reasonable. You shouldn’t be spending 90% on overhead obviously. But you have to have enough of a spending to hire people who have families and car payments and house payments and those kinds of things. I think we need to have honest conversations with the foundations, the corporations, and the other donors who seem to have this mindset that this should all be for free. It’s not. They want a good product. They want excellent services to the population that we serve, or the cause that we serve, so they have to understand that comes with a cost. You have to have good people to have a good product. You have to have good people to offer a good service. You have to pay those people so they can live; they have to send their kids to school and pay their car payments.
 Russell: The flip side of that is there are some nonprofits who think, “Hey, we’re doing worthy work. Why aren’t people coming? Why won’t they write us a check?” There is that other piece where from the side of the nonprofit, they don’t always understand what people are looking for, what motivates them to support a cause. How do you have that conversation with nonprofit leaders to get them to understand the sort of things that will motivate people to lend that support?
 Alan: You touched on it when you talked about value. It’s an exchange of value. There is some value that that donor has to be getting from the nonprofit, whether it’s a demonstration to their employee base that they are making a difference in the world and they are a socially conscious organization, whether it’s a marketing campaign that they can build around the work they’re doing with an organization, whether it’s something that makes them feel good. It doesn’t matter what that value is. What you have to do as a nonprofit is understand what value they’re interested in and determine if you can supply that value. If you can’t supply that value a particular donor is looking for, stop talking to that donor. You’re wasting your time, and you’re wasting their time. Find a different donor that would be interested in the value you offer.
 If I sell suits and somebody is not looking for a suit, I probably don’t need to talk to that person, and they probably don’t need to talk to me. It’s the same thing.
 Russell: Is there a point where you say a lot of nonprofit leaders hanging on beyond where they probably should simply say ‘Next”? Is it a common problem for nonprofit leaders to continue to try to implement strategies to attract donors that they might just not be the right fit for?
 Alan: I think it’s harder for a nonprofit leader to say that. As nonprofit leaders, we care so much about what we do. We care so much about our cause that it’s hard to imagine someone else wouldn’t care about that.
 It’s hard to see maybe that someone doesn’t care about that. We’ll keep pushing a value that maybe that other person isn’t interested in. But there is somebody who is interested. Your time is better spent finding that person who is interested.
 Hugh: It’s a good match. People have a philanthropic side. They want to volunteer. But really, they don’t want to volunteer for everything. We sometimes talk people into volunteering when they really don’t want to. Then they don’t perform. We blame them when it’s really our fault. We have a vision of what they ought to be interested in instead of having a conversation. That also goes with putting people on boards and putting them in slots, like a treasurer, secretary, communications. We put people in the wrong place.
 Going back to what you were saying about the misconceptions, I am not sure if you have seen the TED talk by Dan Pallotta, “The Way We Think About Charity is Dead Wrong.” Have you seen that video?
 Alan: I haven’t.
 Hugh: Look it up. It’s the stuff you guys were talking about. We think we can’t spend money on marketing. We think we can’t take risks. We lose a few hundred dollars, and people will go insane. Disney has a $200 million flop on a movie or more than that today; that’s just the cost of doing business.
 The other one is this overhead thing. It’s a fallacy. You’re paying people. We can’t pay decent salaries. You’re going to give up this big corporate job and work for less money, and we expect you to do the job of three people for a third of the pay. There are some really unreasonable expectations we have. Those are the biggest myths, which are totally wrong in my book. What do you think?
 Alan: I agree. I have seen people on boards that clearly weren’t interested. They don’t do anything. Six months later, they resign. It doesn’t make sense. You have to understand what drives that person. You have to take the time. The myth that you can’t spend money or take risks, one of my favorite quotes is from Samuel Johnson, who was one of the Founding Fathers of the country. He said, “If all danger must be removed, then nothing will ever be accomplished.” The idea is that if you reduce the risk to zero, you won’t accomplish anything. That is an absolute fallacy that we can’t have any risk in a nonprofit organization. All risks have to be considered. They have to be logical. You have to have reasons behind them. When things fail, you have to learn from them. I had a boss years ago who said, “Fail faster.” I thought that was crazy until I realized what he was saying was there is going to be failures in life. Accept them when you get to them, move past them, and get on to something else. Things are going to fail. You will try a program that won’t work. You will try to serve a new population that doesn’t work. You have to accept that risk you took in trying to serve that new population isn’t working and get on to something where you really can have an impact.
 Hugh: Underneath of what you were talking about, this conversation of embracing good, sound operational principles, they are the same for a for-profit or a not-for-profit organization. But there are some subtle differences that actually we have a lot more regulations in the nonprofit arena. We have to be careful with how money is used. Especially if there is designated gifts. If people give us money for a certain thing. There is a public persona.
 You mentioned American Cancer Society, which is a curious organization to me. We are talking about overhead. But they raise tons of money. Only 12% goes to research. That is a classic example of exorbitant salaries and overbenefiting the employees. Every little goes to the end result. However, people look past that somehow and there is a lot of money donated to that organization. There is a persona, a marketing piece that is evidently very strong.
 But on the other side, we feel defeated because other organizations are taking all the money. Last time I checked, money is a renewable resource. Part of our thinking, it’s fundamentally, where I’m headed with this, sorry to ramble, underneath this is leadership. Nothing happens without leadership. The organization is the reflection of the leader. There are organizations that do a very good job like American Cancer Society of presenting themselves in marketing, but there are other organizations who probably have 10% overhead and make a lot of impact, but they are vastly compromised by their lack of effective board and lack of revenue. What do you think of leadership as being an anchor for what we’re talking about?
 Alan: There is no question that you need a leader who understands that all of these things are important. If you have a leader in a nonprofit who only focuses on providing the service or whatever good the nonprofit is doing and doesn’t get out there and talk about the organization and market the organization, recognize how important branding and marketing is, you are not going to go very far.
 Another item that you touched on is accountability. It’s holding people accountable. A lot of people in nonprofits think we need to be nice. I would argue that we do need to be nice and treat people with dignity. But treating people with dignity and being nice to them does not mean not holding them accountable. Accountability is a big piece in nonprofits that can be a challenge because everybody wants to be nice. Sometimes you have to say this person isn’t working out, this project isn’t working out, this department isn’t working out, and make a change. You can do that in a kind way. You can do that in a way that preserves people’s dignity. But if you just let it slide, like I have seen happen, then you get mediocrity. Every organization is as strong as its weakest link. Every chain is as strong as its weakest link. It breathes down the whole organization. I would argue that leaders need to be focused on that accountability that sometimes is an issue in the nonprofit world.
 Hugh: We cause some of those problems. We put the wrong person in the wrong place, and then we are nice to them. They’re trying. They are bringing down your culture. They are representing your brand in a negative way. It’s damage control at that point.
 Alan: The brand has to come first. The mission has to come first. Everything that you do in the nonprofit has to be focused toward advancing the mission and advancing the brand. You always as a leader need to be asking yourself the question: Does this advance the mission in the best way? Does this advance the brand in the best way? I think a good leader can recognize, this isn’t working. We need to make a change. We brought this person on our board who isn’t interested. I need to have a conversation with that person. It takes some assertiveness and guts, but the leader has to be willing to make those kinds of changes and have those kinds of conversations in an organization. For some reason, they are more timid in nonprofit organizations than people are typically in for-profit organizations because it’s perceived as not being nice.
 Hugh: It’s being honest though. We want to be honest with people.
 Alan: That’s right.
 Hugh: Russell, it’s back to you.
 Russell: I think that honesty goes a long way, but honesty without compassion is brutality. It’s all in how you go about putting things out there. As we look at this environment today, there is the realization that business principles are so critical to being effective stewards of things that are entrusted to nonprofits. I think there is a whole lot of confusion, but there are still some very subtle and distinct differences between the nonprofit or social profit and the purely profit entity. What do you see as the most important distinctions to make between the for-profit and the social profit entity?
 Alan: It’s obvious that in the for-profit world, you are in it for the profit. You are trying to enrich shareholders. You are trying to enrich management. You are trying to have quarterly profits that increase every quarter. Anybody in the for-profit world is familiar with that. I have been there. We can’t forget what our mission is in a nonprofit. That ‘s the difference.
 You talked about having compassion. The nonprofit world is about manifesting that compassion in the larger world. That is really what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to take that compassion we have and manifest it in the larger world. I would argue that while we can learn from the for-profit, the for-profit can also learn from us. That compassion for employees, for the larger world, that goes a long way. I always use the word “dignity.” I think we need to treat people in a way that preserves their dignity, in a way that doesn’t threaten their dignity as a person. I think that the for-profit world would learn from a lot in some places. I would never say that all for-profits don’t treat people with dignity. But it’s much more common in that world. I think they would learn a lot from what nonprofits do in terms of treating people with compassion and dignity.
 Russell: Where do you think that you see more of a collaborative type of leadership? Another question I would ask is do you see some pathways to create more collaboration in both worlds? We are in a society today where people are really getting locked into their differences. I think we are suffering from it. How can collaboration as a way of life in both types of entities help us with our larger conversations with how we approach each other as people?
 Alan: I think nonprofits and for-profits should be collaborating with each other. One thing I like about the millennial generation is they really want to make a difference in the world. They have a lot of passion for recognizing what is wrong with the world, and wanting to make a difference. That becomes important just to have a work force in the for-profit world. As nonprofits, we can bring them opportunities to engage their employees in causes that are important to them, whether that is environmental things, whether it’s feeding the homeless, those sorts of things. We can give them direct volunteer opportunities. UPS has a goal to have 20 million hours of nonprofit volunteer time with their employees. Nonprofits need to step up and talk to all the organizations out there about the kind of opportunities we can offer them to engage their employees. In those kinds of volunteer efforts. Those things go a long way for both organizations. The nonprofit gets exposure and marketing. People come away saying, “Wow, this is great. I got to do this or do that.” The for-profit gets an engaged work force that says, “I work for a great company. They let me take a day off and go plant trees for this tree planting organization, or go feed people in the soup kitchen that didn’t have anything to eat that day.” I think those kinds of collaborations, which happen but probably don’t happen nearly as much as they should.
 Russell: If you get somebody that comes out of university, it was a little bit different when the three of us attended, but now you are looking at a situation where somebody comes out, particularly if they have done any graduate work, they have this massive debt that they have to deal with. You have career opportunities and private enterprise that are driven by stock prices. How would you make a case to get somebody who is very talented to choose a career in the social profit field knowing they are leaving all of these other things on the table, and they have this debt? How do you make a case that it’s really worthwhile to go into the nonprofit sector?
 Hugh: One thing I noticed with people who are coming out of university now is they don’t expect to work for the same company for 25 or 30 or 40 years and retire from that company. A lot of people in the millennial generation go into a job knowing I want to be here for two or three years. I want this to be a resume-builder. I want this to be a skill-builder. I want this to be an opportunity. Then I am going off to the next thing. I think as nonprofits, we have to accept that, not try to change it, not try to talk people into working somewhere for 30 years, but go into talking to them about what this opportunity is. This is an opportunity to build your resume, this is an opportunity to wear a lot of hats and gain a bunch of skills, this is an opportunity to be exposed to donors, some of whom are people you may want to work for someday. If we go into it with the idea that we understand what these people want, we understand what this particular market or employee wants, and offer them that, then you’re going to get more people saying, “I could go there for three years. That would be awesome to work with these big companies who are their donors and have volunteers. Then I can go onto the next thing.” I think accepting that approach of how they want to live their lives, they will be more interested in talking to us.
 Hugh: There is a lot of comments in this interview about money. I find the common perception is nonprofit leaders say, “If we just had the money, we could do more.” I come back with, “Can we see your strategy?” “I don’t have one.” “How do you define the board’s engagement on a scale of 1-10?” I get a 4.5. That’s the reason you don’t have money. If you had money, you probably wouldn’t get the results you want. Do you experience that as a definition of what is missing? Do you have a different take on what they need to do to earn it or attract it?
 Alan: I certainly agree with you that money is not the be all end all. An organization needs to be in a position to effectively use any money they get. If you have a board that is engaged at a 4, you’re right. I serve on a board, and it’s an extremely engaged board. The organization is doing very well financially. That is because the board is engaged, and the organization recognizes they need to do marketing and branding, and they need to measure impact, and they need to do all of the things that are important. It comes back to those principles. You have to be willing to accept things just won’t come rolling in. You will have to work for it. You will have to understand your audience. Pick the right audience. Execute. And demonstrate you have executed. It’s no different than a for-profit business in that way. There are a lot of differences about what we do and what we’re trying to accomplish. In terms of execution, there are a lot of similarities there.
 Hugh: Sometimes people get excited when I talk about team execution. They think they are going to shoot people.
 Alan: Let’s hope not. That’s not a good nonprofit.
 Hugh: We do it to ourselves. We bring in people because we have a perception they ought to be doing something rather than what Russell’s vestige is, is find out what they are interested in first. I talked about ROL, return on life. We have a mission. That is our intellectual property. We’re doing this. This is the value we bring. We want to get the money. We have this middle capital. This value capital. We want money capital, financial capital. But in the middle is relationship capital. We don’t invest in that. Part of what businesses do is they are really, the ones who are successful, building relationships with their customers. In our customers in the nonprofit world are our supporters, stakeholders, donors, board members, volunteers. We don’t do a good job of nurturing them, do we?
 Alan: No. Some organizations do a very good job of that, but others, again, don’t take the time, like you said, to really understand what they are. You need to meet people where they are, not where you want them to be. You need to be willing to invest the time and effort in really understanding what people are looking for. Then you have to ask yourself the honest question of whether you can give them that. If you can’t, you walk away. It’s not the right fit. I think that because we love what we do so much, we project our love for what we’re doing onto other people. That is a little bit of a pitfall for people in nonprofits.
 Hugh: It’s common, isn’t it? That’s a common scenario, isn’t it?
 Alan: Yeah, it’s very common. I don’t think it’s any different than any other world. People tend to project their own loves and desires and interests on other people. But when you are running a business, it’s dangerous, and it can be devastating.
 Hugh: I want to get one more thing on the table here before I go to the sponsor message. Russell and I serve leaders as an advisor. We don’t customarily use the word “consultant” or “coach” because there is so much gray around what that means. 90% of those people who say they are consultants give us a bad name. We have gone from consulting to insulting to advising. We have a paradigm in SynerVision that is a WayFinder. We partner and have some strategies to guide the process. But our job is to help leaders step up their own game. I find that the people struggling are the ones who want to figure it out for themselves. I find by and large the successful leaders have someone like one of us as an advisor, whatever they call them. Why do you think people are reluctant to pay for somebody to help them learn, help them be accountable, give them a process, connect them in different ways? Why do you think there is a reluctance for people to do that?
 Alan: I think there is a little bit of a stigma attached to having a coach. There is some view that if we have to get this guy a coach, there must be something wrong. He’s not doing his job. He’s not performing. My view is that one of the greatest gifts that an organization can offer an employee is coaching, to help them get better on what they do, to help them understand how to get through the challenges they are facing. I think that’s a huge gift an organization can offer an employee, whether it’s a senior executive or a manager, to help them get better at their job. That is a stigma of we had to get this guy a coach, or we had to get this woman a coach, she must not be doing a good job. People will look down at that. I think we have to be very clear that coaching is a positive. Support is a positive. None of us are an island. None of us can completely be effective at everything on our own. Everything has strengths and weaknesses, things they will be good at and not. Giving someone support is a greatest gift an organization can give an employee.
 Hugh: That’s a great answer. Russell, what do you think?
 Russell: I think having a trusted advisor is getting somebody that is outside of the scope of what you’re doing and not so attached to it that they may have blind spots. I have discovered that for me. When I work with other people, they have what I call a superpower. We can’t always define our superpowers. They are things that each of us do that are so easy for us that we tend to minimize it or blow it off. Or we may not even recognize it. When you talk to people around you and they say, “Oh, you did something,” and they will point out something you did. Having a system in place where you recognize everybody’s superpowers and you recognize one another’s superpowers is very important. Everybody’s working to their strengths that way. It’s honoring that. It’s honoring what you’re good at and having an outside perspective is how you can pull that genius that is right there in house. I find that when I’m working with organizations, they don’t know how much they don’t know. On the flip side of that, they don’t know how much they already know. Having somebody to help them channel all of that genius is valuable. They will get more out of it. Taking that time over the long haul to really get better at what you do and to define what you do and to find the right people to collaborate with, to serve, to have pay for their services, taking that time is critical. If you don’t take that time, you are serving the wrong people or reaching for the wrong people, you burn a lot of energy.
 Hugh: Alan, we have laid a lot of themes on the table today for people. You obviously have a lot of wisdom to share, a lot more than we can cover in this limited time. You have a lot of experience. You’re taking some time off for family. You will go for your next venture next year. I’m curious to say where you end up. Whomever gets you will be lucky because you bring a whole lot of value and wisdom to their organization.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 As we close out this really helpful podcast, Alan, what tip or thought do you want to leave with people before Russell closes us out?
 Alan: I think to boil everything down into a 15-second piece is that if you use business principles in a nonprofit and don’t forget the compassion and the mission, you will be successful. You will maximize your chance for success. I hope people can take that away and cogitate on that a bit and apply that to what they do in the nonprofit world.
 Russell: Alan Harrison, it has been a joy to sit and speak with you. What is the best way for people to reach you?
 Alan: If they find me on LinkedIn and try to send me a connection request, I think that’s probably the best way. I’m active on there. I would certainly love to make some new connections there. I want to thank both of you for today. This has been fun and stimulating for me. I always get my best ideas in conversation with other people who understand the subject. This was rewarding for me, and I hope it was rewarding for others as well.
 Russell: This is definitely rewarding work for us. That’s why we do it. If you can’t have any fun at it, why do it?
  
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<strong>A Nonprofit is a Business<br></strong>with Alan Harrison</h1> <p>[caption id="attachment_1275" align="alignleft" width="200"]<strong>     Alan Harrison, CDCF</strong>[/caption]</p> <p><strong>Alan Harrison</strong>is a nonprofit executive with over 25 years of for-profit and nonprofit experience in a diverse set of roles. Born in Pennsylvania, Harrison holds a B.S. degree in Biology from Geneva College and an M.S. degree in Biology (specializing in Ecology) from Lehigh University.</p> <p>There is a pervading view that nonprofits are somehow less serious than for-profits. I have run across this several times in many situations. Some people think that somehow the money just rolls in and work is a big party every day. There is also a view that everyone works for a pittance and you couldn’t really support yourself or a family working for a nonprofit. These views could not be further from the truth.</p> <p>After many years of experience in nonprofit I have learned that a nonprofit is a business, just a different kind of business. For-profit businesses make goods or services in pursuit of money for shareholders or owners. This is the “profit” piece. Nonprofit businesses also make goods or services. The difference is that the nonprofit business is not in it to make money for an owner or shareholder, they are there to make good of some sort for a group of people that will benefit from the good or service. In simplified terms I like to think of nonprofits as business that make good not money.</p> <p>Nonprofits businesses are not a party. Everyone who works at a nonprofit goes to work every day and works just like anyone else. If you do your job you keep it and succeed, if you don’t do it you get disciplined and eventually lose it. Nonprofit businesses have all the same functions as for-profit businesses. There are finance, HR and IT people. Someone cleans the offices and takes out the trash. Any function you can associate with a for-profit business is there with a nonprofit business. It may look a little different, but it is there. The fundraisers are analogous to the sales people in a for-profit business.</p> <strong>Read the Interview Transcript</strong> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> It’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. It’s kind of an interesting day here in central western Virginia. We’re expecting some snow tonight and a storm on the weekend. How is it in the Rocky Mountain high of Colorado?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Well, it’s actually sunny today. It’s a bit chilly, but it’s very sunny. We’re just going through a typical Colorado winter. I don’t worry about it. If I don’t like it, it will be different in five or ten minutes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It may make people feel cool because they might be listening to this podcast in the heat of summer. Think about how cool it is. I got a little hair standing up here. Russell, you don’t have that problem. You can’t see him on the podcast, but he’s a smart man – he doesn’t waste any energy growing hair.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I haven’t had a bad hair day in a long time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m thinking you haven’t had a bad day. It’s always a good day with Russell David Dennis. We have a person who is in the space of philosophy and practice that we are, Russell. It’s Alan Harrison. We met on LinkedIn and had some conversations. He said he’d like to share his wisdom with nonprofit leaders. Alan, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em></p> <p><strong>Alan Harrison:</strong> Thank you, Hugh, and thank you, Russell for having me here. I’m very excited to be here and looking forward to today.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tell people a little bit about who Alan Harrison is.</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> I’ve been in the nonprofit space for over 15 years now. Before that, I was in the for-profit space for almost that long. I spent a lot of time in the water treatment industry. I have a Masters degree in biology. Toward the end of that part of my career, I wanted to make a change and moved into the nonprofit space. I moved from technology into operations. Most of my nonprofit career has been spent in administration, HR. I have been vice president of administration. I have been CEO of a small nonprofit, running things from an administrative and financial standpoint as opposed to technology. That was a big change for me, but I have never looked back. I enjoy it and really love the nonprofit space.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are talking about good sound business principles today. You’ve come from the business world. We use the funny terms “for-profit” and “nonprofit.” Right there is where we set up a false premise with the word “nonprofit.” We have had guests who talk about it being a social benefit or a tax-exempt charity. One guest gave us the title “for-purpose” organization.</p> <p>You and I spoke a little bit last week. You’re very passionate about the principles that you teach and bring to this tax-exempt world of charities that are really cause-based. We’re working to improve people’s lives. The bottom line is ROL, Return on Life, the impact that we have in people’s lives. Let’s start from why do you think it’s important that these kinds of organizations, which we will use the word “nonprofit” because that is the sector we’re talking to—we’re talking to clergy, leaders of associations that are tax-exempt like a chamber of commerce, or cause-based community nonprofits, all over. Why is it important for us as leaders in this sector to understand business principles?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> The first point that I would make is that a nonprofit is a business. I like the term “not for profit” because we can make a profit. There is nothing wrong with making money. Certainly we raise money. Nonprofits offer goods and services, and they charge for those things. There is nothing wrong with that. The difference is that they take that profit not to make money; they take that profit to make good. There is a principle they are trying to advance, whether that is feeding people who are hungry, trying to make people healthy, global health, or just the health clinic in your local community. It doesn’t matter. They are taking that money, whether it’s a profit or a donation, and using it to make good in that community. The reason we need to keep business principles in mind is because it is a business. All the things that a business does, a nonprofit does. We have finance people, and administrators. We sign contracts. We have buildings we need to upkeep. We have employees. We have HR departments. Everything that a business does, a nonprofit has to do as well. You might say they don’t have sales, but they really do. Fundraisers are analogous to sales. Every function you find in a business or a nonprofit you would find in the opposite organization.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We set ourselves up for failure when we minimize those things you just talked about. We expect it’s going to happen. Even at the detriment, we say we can’t make a profit, or we can’t charge too much money for that, or we have to dumb down. What are some of the scripts people tell themselves and others that make some of those things you talked about difficult?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> First off, when you talk to people about a nonprofit, they think somehow the money just comes. One of the biggest errors I see people make in politics and the nonprofit world is they assume that if they do good or the right thing, somebody will support that. That’s not the case anymore. There was a time a lot of years ago where you could go to a donor and say, “Hey, I’m doing really great work. You need to support what I’m doing.” The donor would say,<br> “You are doing good work. I do want to support what you’re doing.” It’s not that way anymore. We’re well past that. We are in a time where it’s an exchange of value. Just like if I buy a pair of pants from a clothier near me, I want to give him money. That is the value he gets; the value I get is a nice pair of pants. It’s no different for a nonprofit. If I am going to a donor, I need to explain to them the value proposition: what they are getting for the dollars they are giving to me. It may be marketing. It may be publicity. It may be something that encourages their employees because employees are interested in social enterprises and organizations that make a difference. Whatever that value proposition is, I need to go to my donors with. A lot of people don’t realize that. They think if they are doing a good thing, they will give me money. The great nonprofits, the ones that are really successful, understand that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Those in business build a strategy. At least, some of them do. At SynerVision, we consider the strategy to be central. As you know, I’m a musical conductor. If we don’t have a musical score, nobody knows what to play. We go into our space with all our volunteers and board members and staff and say, “Go,” and they don’t know where to go. There is a lack of understanding where they can be engaged and what they are supposed to do. Part of that is understanding what our brand is and what our unique value proposition is. You just spoke about value propositions when you are making a presentation. I don’t think we’re very good at either defining it or expressing it. What do you say about how we get there?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> You mentioned brand, which is important for a nonprofit. As a nonprofit, you have your reputation and your brand. People need to be crystal clear on what that brand is. When you think of a good nonprofit, the Nature Conservancys, and the CAREs, and the American Cancer Society, people know what those organizations are about. They know exactly what the American Cancer Society is. They know exactly what CARE does. They understand that brand identity. Those organizations understand their brand identity is what is out there. It’s no different than Google. People know Google’s brand identity and Microsoft’s brand identity. It’s the same kind of an idea. It needs to be marketed the same way as those organizations would.</p> <p>One thing I always recommend to a nonprofit is get your values. Know what your values are. Understand what they are. Put them first and foremost on your webpage. If you go to the really successful organizations, one of the first things you will see on their webpages is what their values are. Lead with those values. Lead with that brand. Lead with that understanding. That is what a lot of nonprofits don’t do. They don’t have a 30-second elevator speech where they can distill their brand down into a few short sentences that make people go, “Oh, I’ll get that.” That will allow you to understand whether you can connect with that person. Some people won’t be interested in what your mission is, and that’s fine. But it will allow you to connect with those who are interested in your mission and find out who those people are pretty quickly into the conversation. You don’t want to spend six months or a year cultivating a donor who really isn’t interested in your mission. You want someone who will be clued into what you’re doing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, that’s one of the messages you bring up very often with board members and donors. Find out what they’re interested in. Do you want to chime in and come up with another question for him?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Everyone has a different motivation. When you’re talking about value, which is a word that is rarely used in nonprofit circles, the value is in the mind of the supporter. You’re going to be talking to multiple audiences. You have a message for volunteers. You have a message for donors. You have a message for people in the community.</p> <p>Really what we’re talking about is profit. With nonprofits, there is a profit. There is a social profit. There is a monetary profit. The discussion that Alan started with values, that is very important because when you look at where it is that you see yourself fitting, where you want people to go as a result of being exposed to your services and products, what is it that you ultimately want them to have? What is the experience they’re going to get? You almost have to set the table for your own measures in a sense by explaining where people start and where they end up. That is something that you measure. Everything doesn’t fit in a pivot table. There is a place for where Berny calls the dolphin story and the results. People want results. Donors are very sophisticated now. Are you delivering results? What do those results look like? As a business, it’s really important to run a business like a business. It’s about good stewardship. Alan is kind of like me. You had a different career, and then you transitioned into this career. What would you say was the biggest surprise when you got when you moved out of your old career into the nonprofit space? What was the one thing that was the biggest shock to you?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> I think for me, when I moved from the for-profit to the nonprofit world, I remember I was moving into the Nature Conservancy. Someone there called my old boss and said, “Can Alan do this job?” He said, “Of course he can. It’s an NGO.” That’s what surprised me. I have never been anywhere where people work harder or where people were more talented than the nonprofits I work in. People have this view that it’s kind of a party or money somehow comes rolling in or we don’t really work; we just lay around all day. That to me was the biggest surprise.</p> <p>When I went to the CDC Foundation, it was during the ebola crisis in Africa. I have never seen people more dedicated, work harder, more talented, than anywhere I have been in my life. This idea that people aren’t working or people don’t work hard really was a surprise to me. I was taken aback. I have become a nonprofit evangelist when I talk to people. We have analogous to sales. We have finance. We have HR. We have IT. Every function you can think of, people are working hard. You have to do your job just like anywhere else. If you don’t do your job, you lose your job. There is this view that somehow it’s not serious.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What Russell and I do as a resource for leadership and strategy and performance, it’s harder in this sector. I served inside the church for 40 years. There is a really good case of dumbing down and not having the standards you’re talking about. It’s the same as any other generic nonprofit, except churches think people will walk in the door. We have lost in the mainline denominations our relevance. I still believe in it. I’m a critic of it to help it. But it’s the mindset that we develop that is a scarcity mindset. With scarcity thinking, the mindset ought to be abundance. God has given you abundance, but you have to be a good steward of it.</p> <p>The piece that Russell brought in, one of our colleagues, Berny Dohrmann, runs a business growth conference for 25 years. It attracts entrepreneurs. They come in from the business side and the nonprofit side. There are characteristics that are the same. The dolphin thing he was referring to is “Here is my sweet little dolphin,” but there is no substance to your ask. You just are petting your dolphin, and you want everyone else to pet it.</p> <p>The point you’re making is there is a quantifiable value you bring. Instead of talking about ROI, we talk about ROl, Return on Impact. It’s really bottom line impact. We take your values. We have to be clear on what we value. As we do strategy, we take core values to another level. People write these words that they don’t understand. We develop guiding principles. How do you make decisions based on these concepts? Being a principle-based organization, what we’re now teaching nonprofits is how to develop your strategy and develop the principles. You will take that strategy and integrate it into performance, which is as you probably have experienced is a big gap. We have a lot of well-intended, passionate, dedicated people who are low on the performance scale. Really, these people want to do more. In many circumstances, they work harder here than they do in their day jobs.</p> <p>Do you want to come back at us with some other thoughts?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> I would agree that people work hard in nonprofits. Some of the people I have talked to who transitioned from for-profits to nonprofits are saying they work harder now than they ever did in the for-profit world. You have to wear a lot of hats. Money is scarce. There is a lot of challenges.</p> <p>Another challenge for nonprofits you touched on is the impact and measuring the impact. Donors want to hear about impact. That can be a challenge for nonprofit. In a for-profit, you can look at your balance sheet and your P&amp;L sheet for the quarter. You can say you sold 27,000 widgets. I made this kind of gross margin and net profit. It’s fairly simple. But for a nonprofit, if you are a single cause nonprofit, you feed hungry families for example, or you feed homeless people, you have one number to work with. But a lot of nonprofits do multiple things. It becomes extremely challenging to measure impact. I have been in nonprofits that had up to 80 or 100 active projects. How do you measure impact across 100 active projects? That becomes difficult. You start to focus on ones that are most important or most impactful. There is no question that you don’t just have a number. We did 27% this year. Our gross margin is 12%. That is not how a nonprofit works. When you look at your impact, you have to break it down by project, by population you serve, by the areas you serve. It’s a huge challenge for a nonprofit.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think the place people have to begin at is- I was looking at a book, <em>The Social Profit Handbook</em> by David Grant. A lot of times, when we think of having programs evaluated or people coming in and assessing, we look at it like other people assessing us. The model that we teach at SynerVision and where people bring to is look at how can we do what we’re doing better once we decide what it is that we’re doing. If we don’t make a decision or try to measure what we’re doing, other people will do that for us. The purpose of evaluation is not to get a grade to give a better check. The purpose of evaluating and benchmarking is to get better at what you’re doing, deliver more impact, and find new ways to collect that information so people can understand that value. It’s having the people you’re working with talk about how being affiliated with your organization has made a difference. There is a lot that goes into storytelling. It captures that information that won’t fit neatly on the pivot table that helps us connect with people emotionally that helps define some of that impact. That ROI is return on impact, or return on influence, these types of things. The thought pattern that people have around nonprofits really needs to change. You addressed that very well, Alan: how people seem to think it’s quick and easy. There are a lot of people who are reluctant to write a check because they say, “I’m not interested in paying your rent. I want to make sure every dollar I give you goes into the program.” If you don’t have an infrastructure to deliver it, you don’t have a program. How do we create a shift in that focus with people? What are some things you’ve done to help shift that thinking around?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> I think your point about overhead is important. No one goes to Google and says, “You shouldn’t have a finance department. Those should be all volunteers. You shouldn’t have an IT department. Those all should be volunteers.” You know what you get with volunteers. You have very dedicated people who have little time, and they can’t necessarily put in the time you need them to put in. Just like any other business, you have to pay for what you need.</p> <p>Imagine a large nonprofit depending on a volunteer CFO. It will be a mess. Or a volunteer IT department. It will be a mess. You have to have a well-oiled, well-run organization. You’re competing in the same talent pool. There is a subset of people who want to be in nonprofit. They love the nonprofit, they love the mission, and I honestly believe the employees who stick around in nonprofits are the ones who love the mission. You’re still competing for the same talent pool. If I need to hire a CFO, that CFO could go to another organization or for-profit. The idea that we shouldn’t be paying for overhead, or whatever that number is, doesn’t make a lot of sense.</p> <p>The finances need to be transparent. They need to be reasonable. You shouldn’t be spending 90% on overhead obviously. But you have to have enough of a spending to hire people who have families and car payments and house payments and those kinds of things. I think we need to have honest conversations with the foundations, the corporations, and the other donors who seem to have this mindset that this should all be for free. It’s not. They want a good product. They want excellent services to the population that we serve, or the cause that we serve, so they have to understand that comes with a cost. You have to have good people to have a good product. You have to have good people to offer a good service. You have to pay those people so they can live; they have to send their kids to school and pay their car payments.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The flip side of that is there are some nonprofits who think, “Hey, we’re doing worthy work. Why aren’t people coming? Why won’t they write us a check?” There is that other piece where from the side of the nonprofit, they don’t always understand what people are looking for, what motivates them to support a cause. How do you have that conversation with nonprofit leaders to get them to understand the sort of things that will motivate people to lend that support?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> You touched on it when you talked about value. It’s an exchange of value. There is some value that that donor has to be getting from the nonprofit, whether it’s a demonstration to their employee base that they are making a difference in the world and they are a socially conscious organization, whether it’s a marketing campaign that they can build around the work they’re doing with an organization, whether it’s something that makes them feel good. It doesn’t matter what that value is. What you have to do as a nonprofit is understand what value they’re interested in and determine if you can supply that value. If you can’t supply that value a particular donor is looking for, stop talking to that donor. You’re wasting your time, and you’re wasting their time. Find a different donor that would be interested in the value you offer.</p> <p>If I sell suits and somebody is not looking for a suit, I probably don’t need to talk to that person, and they probably don’t need to talk to me. It’s the same thing.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Is there a point where you say a lot of nonprofit leaders hanging on beyond where they probably should simply say ‘Next”? Is it a common problem for nonprofit leaders to continue to try to implement strategies to attract donors that they might just not be the right fit for?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> I think it’s harder for a nonprofit leader to say that. As nonprofit leaders, we care so much about what we do. We care so much about our cause that it’s hard to imagine someone else wouldn’t care about that.</p> <p>It’s hard to see maybe that someone doesn’t care about that. We’ll keep pushing a value that maybe that other person isn’t interested in. But there is somebody who is interested. Your time is better spent finding that person who is interested.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s a good match. People have a philanthropic side. They want to volunteer. But really, they don’t want to volunteer for everything. We sometimes talk people into volunteering when they really don’t want to. Then they don’t perform. We blame them when it’s really our fault. We have a vision of what they ought to be interested in instead of having a conversation. That also goes with putting people on boards and putting them in slots, like a treasurer, secretary, communications. We put people in the wrong place.</p> <p>Going back to what you were saying about the misconceptions, I am not sure if you have seen the TED talk by Dan Pallotta, “The Way We Think About Charity is Dead Wrong.” Have you seen that video?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> I haven’t.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Look it up. It’s the stuff you guys were talking about. We think we can’t spend money on marketing. We think we can’t take risks. We lose a few hundred dollars, and people will go insane. Disney has a $200 million flop on a movie or more than that today; that’s just the cost of doing business.</p> <p>The other one is this overhead thing. It’s a fallacy. You’re paying people. We can’t pay decent salaries. You’re going to give up this big corporate job and work for less money, and we expect you to do the job of three people for a third of the pay. There are some really unreasonable expectations we have. Those are the biggest myths, which are totally wrong in my book. What do you think?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> I agree. I have seen people on boards that clearly weren’t interested. They don’t do anything. Six months later, they resign. It doesn’t make sense. You have to understand what drives that person. You have to take the time. The myth that you can’t spend money or take risks, one of my favorite quotes is from Samuel Johnson, who was one of the Founding Fathers of the country. He said, “If all danger must be removed, then nothing will ever be accomplished.” The idea is that if you reduce the risk to zero, you won’t accomplish anything. That is an absolute fallacy that we can’t have any risk in a nonprofit organization. All risks have to be considered. They have to be logical. You have to have reasons behind them. When things fail, you have to learn from them. I had a boss years ago who said, “Fail faster.” I thought that was crazy until I realized what he was saying was there is going to be failures in life. Accept them when you get to them, move past them, and get on to something else. Things are going to fail. You will try a program that won’t work. You will try to serve a new population that doesn’t work. You have to accept that risk you took in trying to serve that new population isn’t working and get on to something where you really can have an impact.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Underneath of what you were talking about, this conversation of embracing good, sound operational principles, they are the same for a for-profit or a not-for-profit organization. But there are some subtle differences that actually we have a lot more regulations in the nonprofit arena. We have to be careful with how money is used. Especially if there is designated gifts. If people give us money for a certain thing. There is a public persona.</p> <p>You mentioned American Cancer Society, which is a curious organization to me. We are talking about overhead. But they raise tons of money. Only 12% goes to research. That is a classic example of exorbitant salaries and overbenefiting the employees. Every little goes to the end result. However, people look past that somehow and there is a lot of money donated to that organization. There is a persona, a marketing piece that is evidently very strong.</p> <p>But on the other side, we feel defeated because other organizations are taking all the money. Last time I checked, money is a renewable resource. Part of our thinking, it’s fundamentally, where I’m headed with this, sorry to ramble, underneath this is leadership. Nothing happens without leadership. The organization is the reflection of the leader. There are organizations that do a very good job like American Cancer Society of presenting themselves in marketing, but there are other organizations who probably have 10% overhead and make a lot of impact, but they are vastly compromised by their lack of effective board and lack of revenue. What do you think of leadership as being an anchor for what we’re talking about?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> There is no question that you need a leader who understands that all of these things are important. If you have a leader in a nonprofit who only focuses on providing the service or whatever good the nonprofit is doing and doesn’t get out there and talk about the organization and market the organization, recognize how important branding and marketing is, you are not going to go very far.</p> <p>Another item that you touched on is accountability. It’s holding people accountable. A lot of people in nonprofits think we need to be nice. I would argue that we do need to be nice and treat people with dignity. But treating people with dignity and being nice to them does not mean not holding them accountable. Accountability is a big piece in nonprofits that can be a challenge because everybody wants to be nice. Sometimes you have to say this person isn’t working out, this project isn’t working out, this department isn’t working out, and make a change. You can do that in a kind way. You can do that in a way that preserves people’s dignity. But if you just let it slide, like I have seen happen, then you get mediocrity. Every organization is as strong as its weakest link. Every chain is as strong as its weakest link. It breathes down the whole organization. I would argue that leaders need to be focused on that accountability that sometimes is an issue in the nonprofit world.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We cause some of those problems. We put the wrong person in the wrong place, and then we are nice to them. They’re trying. They are bringing down your culture. They are representing your brand in a negative way. It’s damage control at that point.</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> The brand has to come first. The mission has to come first. Everything that you do in the nonprofit has to be focused toward advancing the mission and advancing the brand. You always as a leader need to be asking yourself the question: Does this advance the mission in the best way? Does this advance the brand in the best way? I think a good leader can recognize, this isn’t working. We need to make a change. We brought this person on our board who isn’t interested. I need to have a conversation with that person. It takes some assertiveness and guts, but the leader has to be willing to make those kinds of changes and have those kinds of conversations in an organization. For some reason, they are more timid in nonprofit organizations than people are typically in for-profit organizations because it’s perceived as not being nice.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s being honest though. We want to be honest with people.</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> That’s right.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, it’s back to you.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think that honesty goes a long way, but honesty without compassion is brutality. It’s all in how you go about putting things out there. As we look at this environment today, there is the realization that business principles are so critical to being effective stewards of things that are entrusted to nonprofits. I think there is a whole lot of confusion, but there are still some very subtle and distinct differences between the nonprofit or social profit and the purely profit entity. What do you see as the most important distinctions to make between the for-profit and the social profit entity?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> It’s obvious that in the for-profit world, you are in it for the profit. You are trying to enrich shareholders. You are trying to enrich management. You are trying to have quarterly profits that increase every quarter. Anybody in the for-profit world is familiar with that. I have been there. We can’t forget what our mission is in a nonprofit. That ‘s the difference.</p> <p>You talked about having compassion. The nonprofit world is about manifesting that compassion in the larger world. That is really what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to take that compassion we have and manifest it in the larger world. I would argue that while we can learn from the for-profit, the for-profit can also learn from us. That compassion for employees, for the larger world, that goes a long way. I always use the word “dignity.” I think we need to treat people in a way that preserves their dignity, in a way that doesn’t threaten their dignity as a person. I think that the for-profit world would learn from a lot in some places. I would never say that all for-profits don’t treat people with dignity. But it’s much more common in that world. I think they would learn a lot from what nonprofits do in terms of treating people with compassion and dignity.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Where do you think that you see more of a collaborative type of leadership? Another question I would ask is do you see some pathways to create more collaboration in both worlds? We are in a society today where people are really getting locked into their differences. I think we are suffering from it. How can collaboration as a way of life in both types of entities help us with our larger conversations with how we approach each other as people?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> I think nonprofits and for-profits should be collaborating with each other. One thing I like about the millennial generation is they really want to make a difference in the world. They have a lot of passion for recognizing what is wrong with the world, and wanting to make a difference. That becomes important just to have a work force in the for-profit world. As nonprofits, we can bring them opportunities to engage their employees in causes that are important to them, whether that is environmental things, whether it’s feeding the homeless, those sorts of things. We can give them direct volunteer opportunities. UPS has a goal to have 20 million hours of nonprofit volunteer time with their employees. Nonprofits need to step up and talk to all the organizations out there about the kind of opportunities we can offer them to engage their employees. In those kinds of volunteer efforts. Those things go a long way for both organizations. The nonprofit gets exposure and marketing. People come away saying, “Wow, this is great. I got to do this or do that.” The for-profit gets an engaged work force that says, “I work for a great company. They let me take a day off and go plant trees for this tree planting organization, or go feed people in the soup kitchen that didn’t have anything to eat that day.” I think those kinds of collaborations, which happen but probably don’t happen nearly as much as they should.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> If you get somebody that comes out of university, it was a little bit different when the three of us attended, but now you are looking at a situation where somebody comes out, particularly if they have done any graduate work, they have this massive debt that they have to deal with. You have career opportunities and private enterprise that are driven by stock prices. How would you make a case to get somebody who is very talented to choose a career in the social profit field knowing they are leaving all of these other things on the table, and they have this debt? How do you make a case that it’s really worthwhile to go into the nonprofit sector?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> One thing I noticed with people who are coming out of university now is they don’t expect to work for the same company for 25 or 30 or 40 years and retire from that company. A lot of people in the millennial generation go into a job knowing I want to be here for two or three years. I want this to be a resume-builder. I want this to be a skill-builder. I want this to be an opportunity. Then I am going off to the next thing. I think as nonprofits, we have to accept that, not try to change it, not try to talk people into working somewhere for 30 years, but go into talking to them about what this opportunity is. This is an opportunity to build your resume, this is an opportunity to wear a lot of hats and gain a bunch of skills, this is an opportunity to be exposed to donors, some of whom are people you may want to work for someday. If we go into it with the idea that we understand what these people want, we understand what this particular market or employee wants, and offer them that, then you’re going to get more people saying, “I could go there for three years. That would be awesome to work with these big companies who are their donors and have volunteers. Then I can go onto the next thing.” I think accepting that approach of how they want to live their lives, they will be more interested in talking to us.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a lot of comments in this interview about money. I find the common perception is nonprofit leaders say, “If we just had the money, we could do more.” I come back with, “Can we see your strategy?” “I don’t have one.” “How do you define the board’s engagement on a scale of 1-10?” I get a 4.5. That’s the reason you don’t have money. If you had money, you probably wouldn’t get the results you want. Do you experience that as a definition of what is missing? Do you have a different take on what they need to do to earn it or attract it?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> I certainly agree with you that money is not the be all end all. An organization needs to be in a position to effectively use any money they get. If you have a board that is engaged at a 4, you’re right. I serve on a board, and it’s an extremely engaged board. The organization is doing very well financially. That is because the board is engaged, and the organization recognizes they need to do marketing and branding, and they need to measure impact, and they need to do all of the things that are important. It comes back to those principles. You have to be willing to accept things just won’t come rolling in. You will have to work for it. You will have to understand your audience. Pick the right audience. Execute. And demonstrate you have executed. It’s no different than a for-profit business in that way. There are a lot of differences about what we do and what we’re trying to accomplish. In terms of execution, there are a lot of similarities there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Sometimes people get excited when I talk about team execution. They think they are going to shoot people.</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> Let’s hope not. That’s not a good nonprofit.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We do it to ourselves. We bring in people because we have a perception they ought to be doing something rather than what Russell’s vestige is, is find out what they are interested in first. I talked about ROL, return on life. We have a mission. That is our intellectual property. We’re doing this. This is the value we bring. We want to get the money. We have this middle capital. This value capital. We want money capital, financial capital. But in the middle is relationship capital. We don’t invest in that. Part of what businesses do is they are really, the ones who are successful, building relationships with their customers. In our customers in the nonprofit world are our supporters, stakeholders, donors, board members, volunteers. We don’t do a good job of nurturing them, do we?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> No. Some organizations do a very good job of that, but others, again, don’t take the time, like you said, to really understand what they are. You need to meet people where they are, not where you want them to be. You need to be willing to invest the time and effort in really understanding what people are looking for. Then you have to ask yourself the honest question of whether you can give them that. If you can’t, you walk away. It’s not the right fit. I think that because we love what we do so much, we project our love for what we’re doing onto other people. That is a little bit of a pitfall for people in nonprofits.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s common, isn’t it? That’s a common scenario, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> Yeah, it’s very common. I don’t think it’s any different than any other world. People tend to project their own loves and desires and interests on other people. But when you are running a business, it’s dangerous, and it can be devastating.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want to get one more thing on the table here before I go to the sponsor message. Russell and I serve leaders as an advisor. We don’t customarily use the word “consultant” or “coach” because there is so much gray around what that means. 90% of those people who say they are consultants give us a bad name. We have gone from consulting to insulting to advising. We have a paradigm in SynerVision that is a WayFinder. We partner and have some strategies to guide the process. But our job is to help leaders step up their own game. I find that the people struggling are the ones who want to figure it out for themselves. I find by and large the successful leaders have someone like one of us as an advisor, whatever they call them. Why do you think people are reluctant to pay for somebody to help them learn, help them be accountable, give them a process, connect them in different ways? Why do you think there is a reluctance for people to do that?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> I think there is a little bit of a stigma attached to having a coach. There is some view that if we have to get this guy a coach, there must be something wrong. He’s not doing his job. He’s not performing. My view is that one of the greatest gifts that an organization can offer an employee is coaching, to help them get better on what they do, to help them understand how to get through the challenges they are facing. I think that’s a huge gift an organization can offer an employee, whether it’s a senior executive or a manager, to help them get better at their job. That is a stigma of we had to get this guy a coach, or we had to get this woman a coach, she must not be doing a good job. People will look down at that. I think we have to be very clear that coaching is a positive. Support is a positive. None of us are an island. None of us can completely be effective at everything on our own. Everything has strengths and weaknesses, things they will be good at and not. Giving someone support is a greatest gift an organization can give an employee.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a great answer. Russell, what do you think?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think having a trusted advisor is getting somebody that is outside of the scope of what you’re doing and not so attached to it that they may have blind spots. I have discovered that for me. When I work with other people, they have what I call a superpower. We can’t always define our superpowers. They are things that each of us do that are so easy for us that we tend to minimize it or blow it off. Or we may not even recognize it. When you talk to people around you and they say, “Oh, you did something,” and they will point out something you did. Having a system in place where you recognize everybody’s superpowers and you recognize one another’s superpowers is very important. Everybody’s working to their strengths that way. It’s honoring that. It’s honoring what you’re good at and having an outside perspective is how you can pull that genius that is right there in house. I find that when I’m working with organizations, they don’t know how much they don’t know. On the flip side of that, they don’t know how much they already know. Having somebody to help them channel all of that genius is valuable. They will get more out of it. Taking that time over the long haul to really get better at what you do and to define what you do and to find the right people to collaborate with, to serve, to have pay for their services, taking that time is critical. If you don’t take that time, you are serving the wrong people or reaching for the wrong people, you burn a lot of energy.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Alan, we have laid a lot of themes on the table today for people. You obviously have a lot of wisdom to share, a lot more than we can cover in this limited time. You have a lot of experience. You’re taking some time off for family. You will go for your next venture next year. I’m curious to say where you end up. Whomever gets you will be lucky because you bring a whole lot of value and wisdom to their organization.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from Wordsprint*</p> <p>As we close out this really helpful podcast, Alan, what tip or thought do you want to leave with people before Russell closes us out?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> I think to boil everything down into a 15-second piece is that if you use business principles in a nonprofit and don’t forget the compassion and the mission, you will be successful. You will maximize your chance for success. I hope people can take that away and cogitate on that a bit and apply that to what they do in the nonprofit world.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Alan Harrison, it has been a joy to sit and speak with you. What is the best way for people to reach you?</p> <p><strong>Alan:</strong> If they find me on LinkedIn and try to send me a connection request, I think that’s probably the best way. I’m active on there. I would certainly love to make some new connections there. I want to thank both of you for today. This has been fun and stimulating for me. I always get my best ideas in conversation with other people who understand the subject. This was rewarding for me, and I hope it was rewarding for others as well.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is definitely rewarding work for us. That’s why we do it. If you can’t have any fun at it, why do it?</p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>A New Vision of Collaboration from United Way of Central Virginia</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/a-new-vision-of-collaboration-from-united-way-of-central-virginia</link>
      <description>Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Hey there, it’s Hugh Ballou. We’re back. This is a bonus session of The Nonprofit Exchange. We are recording a series of interviews about partnerships and collaborations. Recording some thought leaders in the place where SynerVision is located in Lynchburg, Virginia. It’s central western Virginia, about halfway up in the commonwealth on the side almost in West Virginia.
 Bill Varner: Almost.
 Hugh: Almost. And my guest today is a new friend. I have only been here a year, and we met shortly after. People kept saying, “You need to meet Bill Varner.” Give us a little background, Bill, on who you are. You came from corporate America to run a nonprofit.
 Bill: I did. The last 30 years, I have spent in health services and hospital administration. The last 17 of those were with Centra as their vice president for strategic planning, marketing, business development, communications, and PR. All of that has been in new business development, evaluating communities and determining what their needs are and putting plans and processes in place to meet those needs. One thing that’s interesting about the health system environment is while there is often one single plan for the organization, there are numerous subcomponents to the organization, too. You might have a focus on cardiovascular services, a focus on women’s and children’s services. There can be strategic plans at each of those levels as well, but they all have to work together toward one single ambition. I have the responsibility for that. I did that for the last 17 years at Centra, headquartered in Lynchburg, and covered all the geographies that organization covers.
 About a year and a half ago, the opportunity presented itself to run United Way. They were looking for a different skill mix for their incoming executive director, no longer just someone who was comfortable with raising funds, but someone who could say this is an organization that needs to adapt to the future and the current state. What type of skills and experience do we want in the role? Bottom line, they were looking for somebody with more of a strategic planning/vision-setting, tracking incomes type of person. That not only fit very well in my wheelhouse, but I was also very interested in doing something that actually put me a little bit closer to the people that benefited from the work we do. Centra is a great organization, but I am obviously not a physician or nurse or clinician. More and more in my life, I found that I really wanted to be closer to those who were having an impact in the community and to see who we serve. United Way is an ideal fit for me.
 Hugh: In my world of empowering organizations and leaders, the centrality of it is starting with your vision, mission, and strategy. Being a musical conductor, we have to have the chart in front of us so we know what we have to do. It’s a really important foundation for any organization. Coming from corporate America into this philanthropic work for a for-purpose organization—we like to call them that because nonprofit is such a crazy word. When you and I first met, give me an idea. Let’s talk about how many other organizations you support.
 Bill: We support 26 agencies, 38 programs in those agencies. We actually fund those programs. Several of our agencies have more than one program. 26 organizations, 38 programs.
 Hugh: What makes your work different than Community Foundation?
 Bill: Community Foundation and we overlap in some respects. Much of what the Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation does focuses on social needs and community needs. They have a broader focus in that they may have benefactors that have funded foundations within their structure who have a very dedicated focus outside social services. We are strictly focused on social services. But we recognize that because we have a shared purpose in the community, we talk. That’s a monthly get-together we have. We have included the Centra Foundation. There may be others we want to include in that. We are all to some degree doing the same thing. Let’s at least make sure we’re coordinated. If we are asking agencies and other nonprofits to collaborate and coordinate, we need to hold ourselves to the same standard. So let’s get together and talk. Not sure exactly what is going to come from it. We don’t have a hard deadline as to when we will have certain deliverables, but we are starting to see that there will be opportunities for us to communicate and make sure we are all rowing in the same direction around certain needs in the community.
 I may be getting off your question a little bit, but that’s why we recognized early on we needed a single direction. I started to talk about this idea of why don’t we do a single community needs assessment? In the past, each nonprofit we support in various times in their planning cycle would do a needs assessment. They each didn’t necessarily coordinate with one another. I thought if we could do one needs assessment for the community, not only would we save the time and effort of having everybody do it separately, but we could all participate in that one process, get input into it, and see the same results. We would then ideally be all rowing in the same direction. Here are the three or four biggest issues in the community. Let’s make sure we exert most of our time, resources, and effort on those areas. We have the data and feedback to support those are priority areas. We are doing much more than if somebody comes and asks for a grant, we fund them. We’re really looking strategically at if this is addressing a community need. Bill at the Community Foundation and I are trying to stay very coordinated in that effort.
 Hugh: At the heart of collaborations and partnerships, there is defining the need and defining the vision and your philosophy of how you will proceed. How has the work of part of the conversation has been with the city, with the arts center, and with a group called Unity in the Community who are purposefully pulling people together and having projects they can work on together. The theatre is opening up, and there is a whole program centered around the arts. Unity in the Community is centered around religious and service programs. You sit around that table. Thinking about partnerships and/or collaborations, they are slightly different, you can collaborate without being in a partnership, how has your work specifically and your work through United Way created a catalyst or been a facilitator of those things?
 Bill: Let me answer that by going one step back. I think it’s important to understand a place like Lynchburg in central Virginia. One thing I have noticed here, and I have been here 17 years, and I have been in positions myself where we needed help for health issues or other things. This is a community that steps up. This community does not sit around. You just gave an example of your request for people to participate in a choir, and 100 people are there. You don’t know if they’re all singers, but there is a lot of interest. This is a community when it sees a need, it does not hesitate to rally a group together and try to address that need.
 Now there is good and bad with that. The good is that you have people who are there who are ready to go, symbolically speaking, they are not thinking all the same. What you also get is multiple efforts that may be duplicated with an existing effort or somehow are running counter to an existing effort. But at the very least, you have multiple organizations who have not yet communicated with one another, who may not even know the other exists. Now you have two different organizational structures. You may have two actual nonprofits who are registered, who have to create a board and have an executive director. They each go into their own direction and suddenly you have fragmentation. I will say a lot of what makes this a unique and wonderful community to live, that good heart that is willing to step up and engage, the unintended consequence of that is there is often too many people who have not yet coordinated. We are replete with organizations who are fragmented and could benefit from coordinating.
 We have identified that as an issue in our strategic plan. We feel like we have a role in being a catalyst to bring those organizations together. One, because we work with multiple organizations, we may be the first place to see that you are doing the same thing as this organization is doing. Why don’t we get you together and talk? Our funding could go a lot further if we could support a consolidated and coordinated effort than it would if we were trying to support two separate organizations. By those way, those two organizations, and in some cases it is six, seven, eight organizations who overlap, are each out in the community asking for funding. My experience with donors is by the third time a person comes and asks for money for the same need, they suddenly realize this isn’t coordinated. I won’t give my money to this. I think there is a benefit that can come to those who do coordinate in that the ability to “sell themselves” to a donor and to sell their potential impact to a donor is greatly heightened.
 We are in a unique spot to see maybe for the first time where there are points of fragmentation. It’s not always just a duplication or a fragmentation. There are some cases where the work of one organization could feed the work of another organization. Two places should be working together because they are taking care of people at different points in their life. Make sure they are doing a hand-off from one organization to the next. We feel like because we are in that unique spot that sees a lot of this, and we are in the position to be able to fund, and we track outcomes, that is an important role for us. Not just as a fundraiser to give money to those organizations, but to help those organizations operate more efficiently between one another. We are also doing some things to help them operate more efficiently within each organization.
 Hugh: That’s promising.
 Bill: We are in the very early stages of that. I don’t want to oversell accomplishments on that. We are starting to recognize where those overlaps are and are trying to bring groups together and see some of the challenges in that. It’s tough for groups, at the end of the day, if you are going to coordinate and collaborate, what you are also going to do is compromise. It means that if I am going to coordinate with another organization, I have to go in with the spirit of compromise, and I have to go in it saying there is a purpose we are coming together for that supersedes my personal self-interest in this. It may in fact require me to give something away for the greater good of the community. I think as long as we are willing to do that and take self-interest and self-preservation out of the equation, I think we will do good things. As long as self-interest, self-preservation, egos, turfism stay in the discussion, it will be hard to move the needle. But I think the purpose of focusing on the community is a much more noble cause than the purpose of focusing on organization and organizational growth. We just need to be all prepared and recognize we will have to compromise.
 Hugh: I remember reading a story about one of the larger foundations in southern California in the LA area telling their organizations they funded. They pulled them all together and said, “We are not going to fund you anymore unless you work on collaborative efforts. We’re leaving the room. You come back to us with a collaboration, and then we will revisit the conversation.” There was a funder stepping up and setting a boundary. We are not duplicating funding anymore.
 Part of what came to my mind as you were describing that situation was that we create an unintended consequence of leadership: a competitive situation. We have a need, so we will service that need. There is too much of when we didn’t adequately do our research about what was available. In business, we look at our competition. What is our unique value proposition? Is it being served?
 A lot of people come to me when they want to start a nonprofit. I say why don’t you work under another one as a project? Do it for a year, and see if there is really a need for this. Then you don’t have to go through all that paperwork.
 Bill: That’s music to my ears. That’s exactly what we are asking organizations to do. Before you start a nonprofit, pump the brakes. Let’s take a look and see if there is somebody else out there not necessarily doing the same thing, but addressing the same need. If there is, talk to them first. It’s much more exciting to get your own organization started and create your own logo and website. That stuff is sexy and exciting, and people get caught up in that. You need to let that go. If my real purpose is to serve the community, not just create an organization, let me find out if there is a moving train I can hop onto now, somebody else who is already doing this.
 In fact, we had an example of that this last year. An organization came to us and wanted to start a new nonprofit. We think you are more appropriately aligned with an existing organization. Long story short, they are now a program under that organization. At least for now, that makes the most sense for them. Now they don’t have to go find a separate board. They have not created costly infrastructure. They will share the overheads of the other organization. If anything, that helps spread that organization’s overhead out, so that’s a win-win.
 We’ll say we have stopped short. We do recognize that as a funder, we have some leverage to say we will withhold some funding until you collaborate. We have stopped short of saying we will not fund you. In our view, that is punishing the wrong person. We’re not punishing the organization; we are punishing the people who benefit from that organization. I’m not going to tell for example if there are two backpack programs in the community that provide food to kids on Friday and they are not collaborating, I am not going to say I am cutting your funding until you collaborate because I am not hurting those organizations, I am taking food out of the mouths of the kids on Friday. While it feels like an important knob to turn, to me, it’s being a little reckless with money as a motivator. It’s not targeted enough to actually motivate the right people. It just hurts the community. But we have said our funding is going to put strong preference on those organizations that collaborate.
 Hugh: That’s true of a lot of private foundations that do fund nonprofit projects. They look favorably at collaborations and partnerships.
 Going into ways- I want to talk about two things. Going into these joint venture things, what are the deficits? People don’t think about writing agreements for certain things. I want to talk about that. And then what are the resources that you and your organization bring to foster those conversations?
 Bill: It’s interesting. I will talk a little bit out of both sides of my mouth. One, I will say I think those organizations who come together to collaborate should not set too high of an expectation early on. I think it’s okay to say, “Let’s get in a room and talk and see where things go.” If we put a lofty expectation in there meeting one, we may scare each other off, and we may not really know what we’re trying to do yet. Don’t set super high expectations right out of the gate. Don’t be too rigid with saying we have to have an outcome by December.
 However, at some point, you have to switch the conversation from the stream of consciousness rambling, which some of these can be, which can be ultimately beneficial. At some point, you have to get people on a map. We have talked now for a few meetings; what are some of the things we think we share?
 Hugh: It’s kind of like dating, isn’t it? I didn’t ask my wife to marry me on the first date. Did some relationship-
 Bill: That might have been a little presumptuous.
 Hugh: A little.
 Bill: It’s very much like that. Once you know a little bit more about each other, you can say is there something more here? Is there a common purpose that we share? Is there a common goal that we should work on? If so, let’s articulate that as clearly as possible. Maybe that’s just one goal. If so, we make part of our work to focus on that goal, and let’s keep having this open conversation about other areas you might benefit from or other people you want to bring to the table. But I think ultimately, if work is to get done and accomplishments are to be made and we are going to have positive, sustainable impact on the community, you have to get a plan together.
 You have to have the basic rudiments that a lot of people think are NBA 101, so people don’t do them. They think they have to hold this in their head. You have to have a vision statement that is meaningful, clear, concise, and not have vague language, not be marketing fluff. You need to have a meaningful vision statement. Then you have to talk about the strategy that will get you there. That strategy has to be goals, objectives, tactics, 90-day plans, 30-day plans, who is accountable for it, when is it going to be done, and how do we measure whether or not it was done. If you have that line of sight between that vision and what you need to have done Monday morning, that is a recipe for doing good things. I do think those early collaborative efforts need to be loose on the front end, but gradually get more focused as topics bubble out of those areas.
 I am in several of those meetings right now. A couple of them, we are in those early stages where we are just talking. We leave the room. The type A in you leaves the room says, “We did a lot of talking, but I don’t know what we accomplished.” The more patient side of you should say, “We have done a lot of talking, but we have not talked before. That’s good. That’s progress. No real hard outcome just yet, but we will get there. Maybe the next meeting or the meeting after that, we will plant a stake in the ground and say that we all want to do this. We all focus on food, clothing, and shelter. Let’s pin that up on the wall and say what can we do differently together to do this?”
 That can be scary to organizations because that does ultimately mean you are going to somebody in the room, probably everybody in the room will have to compromise a bit. You just need to know that going in. If you are going in saying, “I am not doing anything that is going to take something away from me or that causes me to lose influence or control over a certain area of my life,” if you go in there with that attitude, you might as well not be in the room. You have to go in saying, “This is not about me. This is about the community.” If there are points along the road here where I may be doing something that affects something we are measuring at United Way, maybe I need to let it go. If it’s better for the community, if what I lose is more than made up for by what the community gains, I should let it go.
 I will give you a good example. We run a backpack program right now. We fund several backpack programs, but we run a couple different schools out of the United Way. We get revenue for that. That revenue is included in our total pledges that we report at the end of the year. Ultimately, all those backpack programs need to coordinate and consolidate a little bit better. That probably will mean our backpack program could move to a more centralized program somewhere that might be able to do it more efficiently and effectively than us. If I move that backpack program out, that is probably the right thing to do to get it in a more efficient program. But I have also taken X thousands of dollars worth of revenue that had been associated with that program outside of my organization. Somebody looking at our dollars might say you just went from $100 to $75. You’re losing ground. Not really. I know where that program went. I know it’s doing better where it is now. It made more sense for it to be operated there. If I am collecting $25 less than I used to collect, that’s okay. That’s not a failure. In fact, that’s evidence we collaborated on something. If my only interest is in growing our revenue, I would never do that. That’s why you have to let that interest go. There is room for all of us. At some point, organizations may need to consolidate and think about shared purposes. Right now, we are in the earlier coordination and cooperation stage.
 Hugh: One of the things I am clearly hearing is that you’re a catalyst for people to think differently.
 Bill: We are trying to be, and trying to facilitate conversations like that. and help them see that we are doing this, too. We are not some expert coming in and saying that we want you to do this and it’s going to be hard on you and easy for us. We are holding ourselves to that same standard. We can be the voice of experience and say, “Here is what we had to learn about ourselves and our behavior in order to do this effectively.” We want to share our experience with you and see if you could see there is a different way to think about things that might be more advantageous for the community.
 Hugh: You’re the champion of fostering new thinking, but you’re also bringing some skills, history, tools, and leadership to this. You re bringing business expertise into tax-exempt business models, which a lot of nonprofits don’t think of themselves that way. We have to generate revenue. Otherwise, we will go under. The unintended consequences are people want to go too fast, so you are encouraging people to take a deep breath.
 Bill: Before starting a new organization out of the ground.
 Hugh: Or even two organizations- we spoke of one before we went live, which we won’t talk about here. We have two coming together who have had some history who had not talked about the philosophies and processes and values moving forward. They got to get to work. There is a self-imposed urgency sometimes. Are we in the long haul compromising our work by going too fast?
 Bill: Absolutely.
 Hugh: There is something we could do now. Part of what United Way brings to the table in the community, you are not only working in Lynchburg, Virginia, but you are working in central Virginia.
 Bill: Amherst, Bedford, Campbell, and Lynchburg.
 Hugh: That’s pretty much the footprint of the greater area.
 Bill: That is, yep.
 Hugh: With the impact having more than just funding the programs. You’re a funding agency; however, you’re fostering this creative thinking about how to work together and how to go to the top a step at a time.
 Bill: We’re doing that not only around collaborative efforts, but we are also trying to establish a program that we are casually referring to now as beyond funding. Many people know us as a organization that does work to improve the community through fundraising that supports nonprofits. In the course of visiting all these nonprofits over the past year and getting familiar with how they operate, it’s become clear to me, and I’m sure you feel the same way, that they don’t have the marketing department and a finance department and a social media department and an HR department. In many cases, they have an executive director who might be a volunteer, certainly I daresay most are overworked and underpaid. They are in it because their heart is in it and they want to do the right thing. Our money we give them each year is important.
 They have ample needs beyond that. We survey our membership at the end of last year and asked, “Other than the money, what else could we be helping you with?” About 20 things that we thought they might answer to give them some prompts. We left it open-ended, too. We heard a lot of things. Most said we need help with grant writing, marketing, social media. Many said we need help with board development and board selection or coaching or performance reviews or my building. Our organization can help with some of those things directly. We have someone who writes grants. My background is strategic planning and business development, communications.
 Aside from our having to fulfill every one of those needs, what we want to do is serve as a broker between those organizations who have their needs and people in the community who can help you address those needs. Right now, one of our agencies who we had a meeting with last week, they need help with their finances. We connected them with somebody from a local employer who says they think they can help them out. We’re in the middle. We brokered the relationship. We will stay in touch with it and see if this organization can improve its financial situation. There are several who want grant writing help; we can probably provide that directly for them. We are trying to break the mold of us just being an annual check-writer. You all need help in various areas. Don’t be shy asking for help. Tell us, and we will work to get through it.
 Hugh: That’s great. That’s a great model. People who are listening and reading the article are looking for ideas. How do we up our game? This will live on in its form as a podcast. As we do a wrap here, parts of this article are some of the other entities in the city, in the arts community and the church community. How do you interface with any of those in your work? Do you?
 Bill: In some cases, we are taking a sit back and wait and see posture. In many cases, we are directly at the table. Some of these efforts have just gotten started. We have United Way, Centra Foundation, Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation, and that is one group. We have another group that Nat Marshall has pulled together that is us, Salvation Army, Goodwill, Interfaith Outreach, and a couple others. We are in those very early stages of just talking. Poverty to Progress has its combined effort with Bridges out of Poverty. We are in some of the sub-committees of that. We are not sure exactly what our bigger role in that could be, but we probably need to spend some time with the leaders in that effort, Treney and Hugh, to understand what is a better place for us to plug in. Is there some place we can be more effective in that? Given that is one of our big focus areas—we focus on health, education, income, and basic human needs—under income, poverty is one of the biggest issues that we could possibly talk about addressing. We have things that we’re doing right now that are not yet looped into the Poverty to Progress initiative. We have more to do to build lines of communication there. Again, that is another one we are sitting back and waiting to see where is the best place for us to plug in. It’s broken down into eight or nine groups now. We think we need to try to figure out how to take these lofty conversations and turn those into actionable plans. That is where that effort is now and we may have a role there.
 Hugh: It’s a shame there’s only one door. You have covered a lot of turf.
 Bill: You’re the only person who has said that.
 Hugh: I’m getting tired thinking about it. There are a lot of sub-conversations in there. As we close this out, what thoughts would you share with other leaders who want to move into a partnership or collaborative relationship with their community? What thoughts would you have for them to go forward with?
 Bill: I’ll take a step back on that question, too. One thing I learned early on when I got into this role, and a certain experience in my life from my past made this role very compelling to me, made me be in a position to help people. As I have met executive directors in all the organizations that we support and other organizations, they tend to have a story. They have some reason they are in that type of work. Nobody gets into nonprofit work because of the glory, fame, and riches; you get into it because you care about it. That to me makes this an incredibly exciting sector to work in. The people that you work with are invigorated because they genuinely care. When you get caught up in operating an organization, you can turn down the light on that part of your brain and your heart and get obsessed with what you have to do today.
 My thought is when you go into a collaborative effort, remember what brought you there. What brought you there is you wanted to help people, not that you wanted to build an organization. If you can keep the light shining on that, the collaboration falls naturally behind. You have to be willing to let some personal interest go so that the benefit accrues to the community, not necessarily to you or your organization.
 Hugh: Bill Varner, visionary leader for United Way in central Virginia. Thank you for sharing your wisdom today.
 Bill: Thank you for your time.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2018 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7b7ac354-b329-11eb-9f0f-7b94e4de407d/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Hey there, it’s Hugh Ballou. We’re back. This is a bonus session of The Nonprofit Exchange. We are recording a series of interviews about partnerships and collaborations. Recording some thought leaders in the...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Hey there, it’s Hugh Ballou. We’re back. This is a bonus session of The Nonprofit Exchange. We are recording a series of interviews about partnerships and collaborations. Recording some thought leaders in the place where SynerVision is located in Lynchburg, Virginia. It’s central western Virginia, about halfway up in the commonwealth on the side almost in West Virginia.
 Bill Varner: Almost.
 Hugh: Almost. And my guest today is a new friend. I have only been here a year, and we met shortly after. People kept saying, “You need to meet Bill Varner.” Give us a little background, Bill, on who you are. You came from corporate America to run a nonprofit.
 Bill: I did. The last 30 years, I have spent in health services and hospital administration. The last 17 of those were with Centra as their vice president for strategic planning, marketing, business development, communications, and PR. All of that has been in new business development, evaluating communities and determining what their needs are and putting plans and processes in place to meet those needs. One thing that’s interesting about the health system environment is while there is often one single plan for the organization, there are numerous subcomponents to the organization, too. You might have a focus on cardiovascular services, a focus on women’s and children’s services. There can be strategic plans at each of those levels as well, but they all have to work together toward one single ambition. I have the responsibility for that. I did that for the last 17 years at Centra, headquartered in Lynchburg, and covered all the geographies that organization covers.
 About a year and a half ago, the opportunity presented itself to run United Way. They were looking for a different skill mix for their incoming executive director, no longer just someone who was comfortable with raising funds, but someone who could say this is an organization that needs to adapt to the future and the current state. What type of skills and experience do we want in the role? Bottom line, they were looking for somebody with more of a strategic planning/vision-setting, tracking incomes type of person. That not only fit very well in my wheelhouse, but I was also very interested in doing something that actually put me a little bit closer to the people that benefited from the work we do. Centra is a great organization, but I am obviously not a physician or nurse or clinician. More and more in my life, I found that I really wanted to be closer to those who were having an impact in the community and to see who we serve. United Way is an ideal fit for me.
 Hugh: In my world of empowering organizations and leaders, the centrality of it is starting with your vision, mission, and strategy. Being a musical conductor, we have to have the chart in front of us so we know what we have to do. It’s a really important foundation for any organization. Coming from corporate America into this philanthropic work for a for-purpose organization—we like to call them that because nonprofit is such a crazy word. When you and I first met, give me an idea. Let’s talk about how many other organizations you support.
 Bill: We support 26 agencies, 38 programs in those agencies. We actually fund those programs. Several of our agencies have more than one program. 26 organizations, 38 programs.
 Hugh: What makes your work different than Community Foundation?
 Bill: Community Foundation and we overlap in some respects. Much of what the Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation does focuses on social needs and community needs. They have a broader focus in that they may have benefactors that have funded foundations within their structure who have a very dedicated focus outside social services. We are strictly focused on social services. But we recognize that because we have a shared purpose in the community, we talk. That’s a monthly get-together we have. We have included the Centra Foundation. There may be others we want to include in that. We are all to some degree doing the same thing. Let’s at least make sure we’re coordinated. If we are asking agencies and other nonprofits to collaborate and coordinate, we need to hold ourselves to the same standard. So let’s get together and talk. Not sure exactly what is going to come from it. We don’t have a hard deadline as to when we will have certain deliverables, but we are starting to see that there will be opportunities for us to communicate and make sure we are all rowing in the same direction around certain needs in the community.
 I may be getting off your question a little bit, but that’s why we recognized early on we needed a single direction. I started to talk about this idea of why don’t we do a single community needs assessment? In the past, each nonprofit we support in various times in their planning cycle would do a needs assessment. They each didn’t necessarily coordinate with one another. I thought if we could do one needs assessment for the community, not only would we save the time and effort of having everybody do it separately, but we could all participate in that one process, get input into it, and see the same results. We would then ideally be all rowing in the same direction. Here are the three or four biggest issues in the community. Let’s make sure we exert most of our time, resources, and effort on those areas. We have the data and feedback to support those are priority areas. We are doing much more than if somebody comes and asks for a grant, we fund them. We’re really looking strategically at if this is addressing a community need. Bill at the Community Foundation and I are trying to stay very coordinated in that effort.
 Hugh: At the heart of collaborations and partnerships, there is defining the need and defining the vision and your philosophy of how you will proceed. How has the work of part of the conversation has been with the city, with the arts center, and with a group called Unity in the Community who are purposefully pulling people together and having projects they can work on together. The theatre is opening up, and there is a whole program centered around the arts. Unity in the Community is centered around religious and service programs. You sit around that table. Thinking about partnerships and/or collaborations, they are slightly different, you can collaborate without being in a partnership, how has your work specifically and your work through United Way created a catalyst or been a facilitator of those things?
 Bill: Let me answer that by going one step back. I think it’s important to understand a place like Lynchburg in central Virginia. One thing I have noticed here, and I have been here 17 years, and I have been in positions myself where we needed help for health issues or other things. This is a community that steps up. This community does not sit around. You just gave an example of your request for people to participate in a choir, and 100 people are there. You don’t know if they’re all singers, but there is a lot of interest. This is a community when it sees a need, it does not hesitate to rally a group together and try to address that need.
 Now there is good and bad with that. The good is that you have people who are there who are ready to go, symbolically speaking, they are not thinking all the same. What you also get is multiple efforts that may be duplicated with an existing effort or somehow are running counter to an existing effort. But at the very least, you have multiple organizations who have not yet communicated with one another, who may not even know the other exists. Now you have two different organizational structures. You may have two actual nonprofits who are registered, who have to create a board and have an executive director. They each go into their own direction and suddenly you have fragmentation. I will say a lot of what makes this a unique and wonderful community to live, that good heart that is willing to step up and engage, the unintended consequence of that is there is often too many people who have not yet coordinated. We are replete with organizations who are fragmented and could benefit from coordinating.
 We have identified that as an issue in our strategic plan. We feel like we have a role in being a catalyst to bring those organizations together. One, because we work with multiple organizations, we may be the first place to see that you are doing the same thing as this organization is doing. Why don’t we get you together and talk? Our funding could go a lot further if we could support a consolidated and coordinated effort than it would if we were trying to support two separate organizations. By those way, those two organizations, and in some cases it is six, seven, eight organizations who overlap, are each out in the community asking for funding. My experience with donors is by the third time a person comes and asks for money for the same need, they suddenly realize this isn’t coordinated. I won’t give my money to this. I think there is a benefit that can come to those who do coordinate in that the ability to “sell themselves” to a donor and to sell their potential impact to a donor is greatly heightened.
 We are in a unique spot to see maybe for the first time where there are points of fragmentation. It’s not always just a duplication or a fragmentation. There are some cases where the work of one organization could feed the work of another organization. Two places should be working together because they are taking care of people at different points in their life. Make sure they are doing a hand-off from one organization to the next. We feel like because we are in that unique spot that sees a lot of this, and we are in the position to be able to fund, and we track outcomes, that is an important role for us. Not just as a fundraiser to give money to those organizations, but to help those organizations operate more efficiently between one another. We are also doing some things to help them operate more efficiently within each organization.
 Hugh: That’s promising.
 Bill: We are in the very early stages of that. I don’t want to oversell accomplishments on that. We are starting to recognize where those overlaps are and are trying to bring groups together and see some of the challenges in that. It’s tough for groups, at the end of the day, if you are going to coordinate and collaborate, what you are also going to do is compromise. It means that if I am going to coordinate with another organization, I have to go in with the spirit of compromise, and I have to go in it saying there is a purpose we are coming together for that supersedes my personal self-interest in this. It may in fact require me to give something away for the greater good of the community. I think as long as we are willing to do that and take self-interest and self-preservation out of the equation, I think we will do good things. As long as self-interest, self-preservation, egos, turfism stay in the discussion, it will be hard to move the needle. But I think the purpose of focusing on the community is a much more noble cause than the purpose of focusing on organization and organizational growth. We just need to be all prepared and recognize we will have to compromise.
 Hugh: I remember reading a story about one of the larger foundations in southern California in the LA area telling their organizations they funded. They pulled them all together and said, “We are not going to fund you anymore unless you work on collaborative efforts. We’re leaving the room. You come back to us with a collaboration, and then we will revisit the conversation.” There was a funder stepping up and setting a boundary. We are not duplicating funding anymore.
 Part of what came to my mind as you were describing that situation was that we create an unintended consequence of leadership: a competitive situation. We have a need, so we will service that need. There is too much of when we didn’t adequately do our research about what was available. In business, we look at our competition. What is our unique value proposition? Is it being served?
 A lot of people come to me when they want to start a nonprofit. I say why don’t you work under another one as a project? Do it for a year, and see if there is really a need for this. Then you don’t have to go through all that paperwork.
 Bill: That’s music to my ears. That’s exactly what we are asking organizations to do. Before you start a nonprofit, pump the brakes. Let’s take a look and see if there is somebody else out there not necessarily doing the same thing, but addressing the same need. If there is, talk to them first. It’s much more exciting to get your own organization started and create your own logo and website. That stuff is sexy and exciting, and people get caught up in that. You need to let that go. If my real purpose is to serve the community, not just create an organization, let me find out if there is a moving train I can hop onto now, somebody else who is already doing this.
 In fact, we had an example of that this last year. An organization came to us and wanted to start a new nonprofit. We think you are more appropriately aligned with an existing organization. Long story short, they are now a program under that organization. At least for now, that makes the most sense for them. Now they don’t have to go find a separate board. They have not created costly infrastructure. They will share the overheads of the other organization. If anything, that helps spread that organization’s overhead out, so that’s a win-win.
 We’ll say we have stopped short. We do recognize that as a funder, we have some leverage to say we will withhold some funding until you collaborate. We have stopped short of saying we will not fund you. In our view, that is punishing the wrong person. We’re not punishing the organization; we are punishing the people who benefit from that organization. I’m not going to tell for example if there are two backpack programs in the community that provide food to kids on Friday and they are not collaborating, I am not going to say I am cutting your funding until you collaborate because I am not hurting those organizations, I am taking food out of the mouths of the kids on Friday. While it feels like an important knob to turn, to me, it’s being a little reckless with money as a motivator. It’s not targeted enough to actually motivate the right people. It just hurts the community. But we have said our funding is going to put strong preference on those organizations that collaborate.
 Hugh: That’s true of a lot of private foundations that do fund nonprofit projects. They look favorably at collaborations and partnerships.
 Going into ways- I want to talk about two things. Going into these joint venture things, what are the deficits? People don’t think about writing agreements for certain things. I want to talk about that. And then what are the resources that you and your organization bring to foster those conversations?
 Bill: It’s interesting. I will talk a little bit out of both sides of my mouth. One, I will say I think those organizations who come together to collaborate should not set too high of an expectation early on. I think it’s okay to say, “Let’s get in a room and talk and see where things go.” If we put a lofty expectation in there meeting one, we may scare each other off, and we may not really know what we’re trying to do yet. Don’t set super high expectations right out of the gate. Don’t be too rigid with saying we have to have an outcome by December.
 However, at some point, you have to switch the conversation from the stream of consciousness rambling, which some of these can be, which can be ultimately beneficial. At some point, you have to get people on a map. We have talked now for a few meetings; what are some of the things we think we share?
 Hugh: It’s kind of like dating, isn’t it? I didn’t ask my wife to marry me on the first date. Did some relationship-
 Bill: That might have been a little presumptuous.
 Hugh: A little.
 Bill: It’s very much like that. Once you know a little bit more about each other, you can say is there something more here? Is there a common purpose that we share? Is there a common goal that we should work on? If so, let’s articulate that as clearly as possible. Maybe that’s just one goal. If so, we make part of our work to focus on that goal, and let’s keep having this open conversation about other areas you might benefit from or other people you want to bring to the table. But I think ultimately, if work is to get done and accomplishments are to be made and we are going to have positive, sustainable impact on the community, you have to get a plan together.
 You have to have the basic rudiments that a lot of people think are NBA 101, so people don’t do them. They think they have to hold this in their head. You have to have a vision statement that is meaningful, clear, concise, and not have vague language, not be marketing fluff. You need to have a meaningful vision statement. Then you have to talk about the strategy that will get you there. That strategy has to be goals, objectives, tactics, 90-day plans, 30-day plans, who is accountable for it, when is it going to be done, and how do we measure whether or not it was done. If you have that line of sight between that vision and what you need to have done Monday morning, that is a recipe for doing good things. I do think those early collaborative efforts need to be loose on the front end, but gradually get more focused as topics bubble out of those areas.
 I am in several of those meetings right now. A couple of them, we are in those early stages where we are just talking. We leave the room. The type A in you leaves the room says, “We did a lot of talking, but I don’t know what we accomplished.” The more patient side of you should say, “We have done a lot of talking, but we have not talked before. That’s good. That’s progress. No real hard outcome just yet, but we will get there. Maybe the next meeting or the meeting after that, we will plant a stake in the ground and say that we all want to do this. We all focus on food, clothing, and shelter. Let’s pin that up on the wall and say what can we do differently together to do this?”
 That can be scary to organizations because that does ultimately mean you are going to somebody in the room, probably everybody in the room will have to compromise a bit. You just need to know that going in. If you are going in saying, “I am not doing anything that is going to take something away from me or that causes me to lose influence or control over a certain area of my life,” if you go in there with that attitude, you might as well not be in the room. You have to go in saying, “This is not about me. This is about the community.” If there are points along the road here where I may be doing something that affects something we are measuring at United Way, maybe I need to let it go. If it’s better for the community, if what I lose is more than made up for by what the community gains, I should let it go.
 I will give you a good example. We run a backpack program right now. We fund several backpack programs, but we run a couple different schools out of the United Way. We get revenue for that. That revenue is included in our total pledges that we report at the end of the year. Ultimately, all those backpack programs need to coordinate and consolidate a little bit better. That probably will mean our backpack program could move to a more centralized program somewhere that might be able to do it more efficiently and effectively than us. If I move that backpack program out, that is probably the right thing to do to get it in a more efficient program. But I have also taken X thousands of dollars worth of revenue that had been associated with that program outside of my organization. Somebody looking at our dollars might say you just went from $100 to $75. You’re losing ground. Not really. I know where that program went. I know it’s doing better where it is now. It made more sense for it to be operated there. If I am collecting $25 less than I used to collect, that’s okay. That’s not a failure. In fact, that’s evidence we collaborated on something. If my only interest is in growing our revenue, I would never do that. That’s why you have to let that interest go. There is room for all of us. At some point, organizations may need to consolidate and think about shared purposes. Right now, we are in the earlier coordination and cooperation stage.
 Hugh: One of the things I am clearly hearing is that you’re a catalyst for people to think differently.
 Bill: We are trying to be, and trying to facilitate conversations like that. and help them see that we are doing this, too. We are not some expert coming in and saying that we want you to do this and it’s going to be hard on you and easy for us. We are holding ourselves to that same standard. We can be the voice of experience and say, “Here is what we had to learn about ourselves and our behavior in order to do this effectively.” We want to share our experience with you and see if you could see there is a different way to think about things that might be more advantageous for the community.
 Hugh: You’re the champion of fostering new thinking, but you’re also bringing some skills, history, tools, and leadership to this. You re bringing business expertise into tax-exempt business models, which a lot of nonprofits don’t think of themselves that way. We have to generate revenue. Otherwise, we will go under. The unintended consequences are people want to go too fast, so you are encouraging people to take a deep breath.
 Bill: Before starting a new organization out of the ground.
 Hugh: Or even two organizations- we spoke of one before we went live, which we won’t talk about here. We have two coming together who have had some history who had not talked about the philosophies and processes and values moving forward. They got to get to work. There is a self-imposed urgency sometimes. Are we in the long haul compromising our work by going too fast?
 Bill: Absolutely.
 Hugh: There is something we could do now. Part of what United Way brings to the table in the community, you are not only working in Lynchburg, Virginia, but you are working in central Virginia.
 Bill: Amherst, Bedford, Campbell, and Lynchburg.
 Hugh: That’s pretty much the footprint of the greater area.
 Bill: That is, yep.
 Hugh: With the impact having more than just funding the programs. You’re a funding agency; however, you’re fostering this creative thinking about how to work together and how to go to the top a step at a time.
 Bill: We’re doing that not only around collaborative efforts, but we are also trying to establish a program that we are casually referring to now as beyond funding. Many people know us as a organization that does work to improve the community through fundraising that supports nonprofits. In the course of visiting all these nonprofits over the past year and getting familiar with how they operate, it’s become clear to me, and I’m sure you feel the same way, that they don’t have the marketing department and a finance department and a social media department and an HR department. In many cases, they have an executive director who might be a volunteer, certainly I daresay most are overworked and underpaid. They are in it because their heart is in it and they want to do the right thing. Our money we give them each year is important.
 They have ample needs beyond that. We survey our membership at the end of last year and asked, “Other than the money, what else could we be helping you with?” About 20 things that we thought they might answer to give them some prompts. We left it open-ended, too. We heard a lot of things. Most said we need help with grant writing, marketing, social media. Many said we need help with board development and board selection or coaching or performance reviews or my building. Our organization can help with some of those things directly. We have someone who writes grants. My background is strategic planning and business development, communications.
 Aside from our having to fulfill every one of those needs, what we want to do is serve as a broker between those organizations who have their needs and people in the community who can help you address those needs. Right now, one of our agencies who we had a meeting with last week, they need help with their finances. We connected them with somebody from a local employer who says they think they can help them out. We’re in the middle. We brokered the relationship. We will stay in touch with it and see if this organization can improve its financial situation. There are several who want grant writing help; we can probably provide that directly for them. We are trying to break the mold of us just being an annual check-writer. You all need help in various areas. Don’t be shy asking for help. Tell us, and we will work to get through it.
 Hugh: That’s great. That’s a great model. People who are listening and reading the article are looking for ideas. How do we up our game? This will live on in its form as a podcast. As we do a wrap here, parts of this article are some of the other entities in the city, in the arts community and the church community. How do you interface with any of those in your work? Do you?
 Bill: In some cases, we are taking a sit back and wait and see posture. In many cases, we are directly at the table. Some of these efforts have just gotten started. We have United Way, Centra Foundation, Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation, and that is one group. We have another group that Nat Marshall has pulled together that is us, Salvation Army, Goodwill, Interfaith Outreach, and a couple others. We are in those very early stages of just talking. Poverty to Progress has its combined effort with Bridges out of Poverty. We are in some of the sub-committees of that. We are not sure exactly what our bigger role in that could be, but we probably need to spend some time with the leaders in that effort, Treney and Hugh, to understand what is a better place for us to plug in. Is there some place we can be more effective in that? Given that is one of our big focus areas—we focus on health, education, income, and basic human needs—under income, poverty is one of the biggest issues that we could possibly talk about addressing. We have things that we’re doing right now that are not yet looped into the Poverty to Progress initiative. We have more to do to build lines of communication there. Again, that is another one we are sitting back and waiting to see where is the best place for us to plug in. It’s broken down into eight or nine groups now. We think we need to try to figure out how to take these lofty conversations and turn those into actionable plans. That is where that effort is now and we may have a role there.
 Hugh: It’s a shame there’s only one door. You have covered a lot of turf.
 Bill: You’re the only person who has said that.
 Hugh: I’m getting tired thinking about it. There are a lot of sub-conversations in there. As we close this out, what thoughts would you share with other leaders who want to move into a partnership or collaborative relationship with their community? What thoughts would you have for them to go forward with?
 Bill: I’ll take a step back on that question, too. One thing I learned early on when I got into this role, and a certain experience in my life from my past made this role very compelling to me, made me be in a position to help people. As I have met executive directors in all the organizations that we support and other organizations, they tend to have a story. They have some reason they are in that type of work. Nobody gets into nonprofit work because of the glory, fame, and riches; you get into it because you care about it. That to me makes this an incredibly exciting sector to work in. The people that you work with are invigorated because they genuinely care. When you get caught up in operating an organization, you can turn down the light on that part of your brain and your heart and get obsessed with what you have to do today.
 My thought is when you go into a collaborative effort, remember what brought you there. What brought you there is you wanted to help people, not that you wanted to build an organization. If you can keep the light shining on that, the collaboration falls naturally behind. You have to be willing to let some personal interest go so that the benefit accrues to the community, not necessarily to you or your organization.
 Hugh: Bill Varner, visionary leader for United Way in central Virginia. Thank you for sharing your wisdom today.
 Bill: Thank you for your time.
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        <![CDATA[<strong>Interview Transcript</strong> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Hey there, it’s Hugh Ballou. We’re back. This is a bonus session of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> We are recording a series of interviews about partnerships and collaborations. Recording some thought leaders in the place where SynerVision is located in Lynchburg, Virginia. It’s central western Virginia, about halfway up in the commonwealth on the side almost in West Virginia.</p> <p><strong>Bill Varner:</strong> Almost.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Almost. And my guest today is a new friend. I have only been here a year, and we met shortly after. People kept saying, “You need to meet Bill Varner.” Give us a little background, Bill, on who you are. You came from corporate America to run a nonprofit.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> I did. The last 30 years, I have spent in health services and hospital administration. The last 17 of those were with Centra as their vice president for strategic planning, marketing, business development, communications, and PR. All of that has been in new business development, evaluating communities and determining what their needs are and putting plans and processes in place to meet those needs. One thing that’s interesting about the health system environment is while there is often one single plan for the organization, there are numerous subcomponents to the organization, too. You might have a focus on cardiovascular services, a focus on women’s and children’s services. There can be strategic plans at each of those levels as well, but they all have to work together toward one single ambition. I have the responsibility for that. I did that for the last 17 years at Centra, headquartered in Lynchburg, and covered all the geographies that organization covers.</p> <p>About a year and a half ago, the opportunity presented itself to run United Way. They were looking for a different skill mix for their incoming executive director, no longer just someone who was comfortable with raising funds, but someone who could say this is an organization that needs to adapt to the future and the current state. What type of skills and experience do we want in the role? Bottom line, they were looking for somebody with more of a strategic planning/vision-setting, tracking incomes type of person. That not only fit very well in my wheelhouse, but I was also very interested in doing something that actually put me a little bit closer to the people that benefited from the work we do. Centra is a great organization, but I am obviously not a physician or nurse or clinician. More and more in my life, I found that I really wanted to be closer to those who were having an impact in the community and to see who we serve. United Way is an ideal fit for me.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> In my world of empowering organizations and leaders, the centrality of it is starting with your vision, mission, and strategy. Being a musical conductor, we have to have the chart in front of us so we know what we have to do. It’s a really important foundation for any organization. Coming from corporate America into this philanthropic work for a for-purpose organization—we like to call them that because nonprofit is such a crazy word. When you and I first met, give me an idea. Let’s talk about how many other organizations you support.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> We support 26 agencies, 38 programs in those agencies. We actually fund those programs. Several of our agencies have more than one program. 26 organizations, 38 programs.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What makes your work different than Community Foundation?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Community Foundation and we overlap in some respects. Much of what the Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation does focuses on social needs and community needs. They have a broader focus in that they may have benefactors that have funded foundations within their structure who have a very dedicated focus outside social services. We are strictly focused on social services. But we recognize that because we have a shared purpose in the community, we talk. That’s a monthly get-together we have. We have included the Centra Foundation. There may be others we want to include in that. We are all to some degree doing the same thing. Let’s at least make sure we’re coordinated. If we are asking agencies and other nonprofits to collaborate and coordinate, we need to hold ourselves to the same standard. So let’s get together and talk. Not sure exactly what is going to come from it. We don’t have a hard deadline as to when we will have certain deliverables, but we are starting to see that there will be opportunities for us to communicate and make sure we are all rowing in the same direction around certain needs in the community.</p> <p>I may be getting off your question a little bit, but that’s why we recognized early on we needed a single direction. I started to talk about this idea of why don’t we do a single community needs assessment? In the past, each nonprofit we support in various times in their planning cycle would do a needs assessment. They each didn’t necessarily coordinate with one another. I thought if we could do one needs assessment for the community, not only would we save the time and effort of having everybody do it separately, but we could all participate in that one process, get input into it, and see the same results. We would then ideally be all rowing in the same direction. Here are the three or four biggest issues in the community. Let’s make sure we exert most of our time, resources, and effort on those areas. We have the data and feedback to support those are priority areas. We are doing much more than if somebody comes and asks for a grant, we fund them. We’re really looking strategically at if this is addressing a community need. Bill at the Community Foundation and I are trying to stay very coordinated in that effort.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> At the heart of collaborations and partnerships, there is defining the need and defining the vision and your philosophy of how you will proceed. How has the work of part of the conversation has been with the city, with the arts center, and with a group called Unity in the Community who are purposefully pulling people together and having projects they can work on together. The theatre is opening up, and there is a whole program centered around the arts. Unity in the Community is centered around religious and service programs. You sit around that table. Thinking about partnerships and/or collaborations, they are slightly different, you can collaborate without being in a partnership, how has your work specifically and your work through United Way created a catalyst or been a facilitator of those things?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Let me answer that by going one step back. I think it’s important to understand a place like Lynchburg in central Virginia. One thing I have noticed here, and I have been here 17 years, and I have been in positions myself where we needed help for health issues or other things. This is a community that steps up. This community does not sit around. You just gave an example of your request for people to participate in a choir, and 100 people are there. You don’t know if they’re all singers, but there is a lot of interest. This is a community when it sees a need, it does not hesitate to rally a group together and try to address that need.</p> <p>Now there is good and bad with that. The good is that you have people who are there who are ready to go, symbolically speaking, they are not thinking all the same. What you also get is multiple efforts that may be duplicated with an existing effort or somehow are running counter to an existing effort. But at the very least, you have multiple organizations who have not yet communicated with one another, who may not even know the other exists. Now you have two different organizational structures. You may have two actual nonprofits who are registered, who have to create a board and have an executive director. They each go into their own direction and suddenly you have fragmentation. I will say a lot of what makes this a unique and wonderful community to live, that good heart that is willing to step up and engage, the unintended consequence of that is there is often too many people who have not yet coordinated. We are replete with organizations who are fragmented and could benefit from coordinating.</p> <p>We have identified that as an issue in our strategic plan. We feel like we have a role in being a catalyst to bring those organizations together. One, because we work with multiple organizations, we may be the first place to see that you are doing the same thing as this organization is doing. Why don’t we get you together and talk? Our funding could go a lot further if we could support a consolidated and coordinated effort than it would if we were trying to support two separate organizations. By those way, those two organizations, and in some cases it is six, seven, eight organizations who overlap, are each out in the community asking for funding. My experience with donors is by the third time a person comes and asks for money for the same need, they suddenly realize this isn’t coordinated. I won’t give my money to this. I think there is a benefit that can come to those who do coordinate in that the ability to “sell themselves” to a donor and to sell their potential impact to a donor is greatly heightened.</p> <p>We are in a unique spot to see maybe for the first time where there are points of fragmentation. It’s not always just a duplication or a fragmentation. There are some cases where the work of one organization could feed the work of another organization. Two places should be working together because they are taking care of people at different points in their life. Make sure they are doing a hand-off from one organization to the next. We feel like because we are in that unique spot that sees a lot of this, and we are in the position to be able to fund, and we track outcomes, that is an important role for us. Not just as a fundraiser to give money to those organizations, but to help those organizations operate more efficiently between one another. We are also doing some things to help them operate more efficiently within each organization.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s promising.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> We are in the very early stages of that. I don’t want to oversell accomplishments on that. We are starting to recognize where those overlaps are and are trying to bring groups together and see some of the challenges in that. It’s tough for groups, at the end of the day, if you are going to coordinate and collaborate, what you are also going to do is compromise. It means that if I am going to coordinate with another organization, I have to go in with the spirit of compromise, and I have to go in it saying there is a purpose we are coming together for that supersedes my personal self-interest in this. It may in fact require me to give something away for the greater good of the community. I think as long as we are willing to do that and take self-interest and self-preservation out of the equation, I think we will do good things. As long as self-interest, self-preservation, egos, turfism stay in the discussion, it will be hard to move the needle. But I think the purpose of focusing on the community is a much more noble cause than the purpose of focusing on organization and organizational growth. We just need to be all prepared and recognize we will have to compromise.</p> <p><strong>Hugh</strong>: I remember reading a story about one of the larger foundations in southern California in the LA area telling their organizations they funded. They pulled them all together and said, “We are not going to fund you anymore unless you work on collaborative efforts. We’re leaving the room. You come back to us with a collaboration, and then we will revisit the conversation.” There was a funder stepping up and setting a boundary. We are not duplicating funding anymore.</p> <p>Part of what came to my mind as you were describing that situation was that we create an unintended consequence of leadership: a competitive situation. We have a need, so we will service that need. There is too much of when we didn’t adequately do our research about what was available. In business, we look at our competition. What is our unique value proposition? Is it being served?</p> <p>A lot of people come to me when they want to start a nonprofit. I say why don’t you work under another one as a project? Do it for a year, and see if there is really a need for this. Then you don’t have to go through all that paperwork.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> That’s music to my ears. That’s exactly what we are asking organizations to do. Before you start a nonprofit, pump the brakes. Let’s take a look and see if there is somebody else out there not necessarily doing the same thing, but addressing the same need. If there is, talk to them first. It’s much more exciting to get your own organization started and create your own logo and website. That stuff is sexy and exciting, and people get caught up in that. You need to let that go. If my real purpose is to serve the community, not just create an organization, let me find out if there is a moving train I can hop onto now, somebody else who is already doing this.</p> <p>In fact, we had an example of that this last year. An organization came to us and wanted to start a new nonprofit. We think you are more appropriately aligned with an existing organization. Long story short, they are now a program under that organization. At least for now, that makes the most sense for them. Now they don’t have to go find a separate board. They have not created costly infrastructure. They will share the overheads of the other organization. If anything, that helps spread that organization’s overhead out, so that’s a win-win.</p> <p>We’ll say we have stopped short. We do recognize that as a funder, we have some leverage to say we will withhold some funding until you collaborate. We have stopped short of saying we will not fund you. In our view, that is punishing the wrong person. We’re not punishing the organization; we are punishing the people who benefit from that organization. I’m not going to tell for example if there are two backpack programs in the community that provide food to kids on Friday and they are not collaborating, I am not going to say I am cutting your funding until you collaborate because I am not hurting those organizations, I am taking food out of the mouths of the kids on Friday. While it feels like an important knob to turn, to me, it’s being a little reckless with money as a motivator. It’s not targeted enough to actually motivate the right people. It just hurts the community. But we have said our funding is going to put strong preference on those organizations that collaborate.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s true of a lot of private foundations that do fund nonprofit projects. They look favorably at collaborations and partnerships.</p> <p>Going into ways- I want to talk about two things. Going into these joint venture things, what are the deficits? People don’t think about writing agreements for certain things. I want to talk about that. And then what are the resources that you and your organization bring to foster those conversations?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> It’s interesting. I will talk a little bit out of both sides of my mouth. One, I will say I think those organizations who come together to collaborate should not set too high of an expectation early on. I think it’s okay to say, “Let’s get in a room and talk and see where things go.” If we put a lofty expectation in there meeting one, we may scare each other off, and we may not really know what we’re trying to do yet. Don’t set super high expectations right out of the gate. Don’t be too rigid with saying we have to have an outcome by December.</p> <p>However, at some point, you have to switch the conversation from the stream of consciousness rambling, which some of these can be, which can be ultimately beneficial. At some point, you have to get people on a map. We have talked now for a few meetings; what are some of the things we think we share?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s kind of like dating, isn’t it? I didn’t ask my wife to marry me on the first date. Did some relationship-</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> That might have been a little presumptuous.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A little.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> It’s very much like that. Once you know a little bit more about each other, you can say is there something more here? Is there a common purpose that we share? Is there a common goal that we should work on? If so, let’s articulate that as clearly as possible. Maybe that’s just one goal. If so, we make part of our work to focus on that goal, and let’s keep having this open conversation about other areas you might benefit from or other people you want to bring to the table. But I think ultimately, if work is to get done and accomplishments are to be made and we are going to have positive, sustainable impact on the community, you have to get a plan together.</p> <p>You have to have the basic rudiments that a lot of people think are NBA 101, so people don’t do them. They think they have to hold this in their head. You have to have a vision statement that is meaningful, clear, concise, and not have vague language, not be marketing fluff. You need to have a meaningful vision statement. Then you have to talk about the strategy that will get you there. That strategy has to be goals, objectives, tactics, 90-day plans, 30-day plans, who is accountable for it, when is it going to be done, and how do we measure whether or not it was done. If you have that line of sight between that vision and what you need to have done Monday morning, that is a recipe for doing good things. I do think those early collaborative efforts need to be loose on the front end, but gradually get more focused as topics bubble out of those areas.</p> <p>I am in several of those meetings right now. A couple of them, we are in those early stages where we are just talking. We leave the room. The type A in you leaves the room says, “We did a lot of talking, but I don’t know what we accomplished.” The more patient side of you should say, “We have done a lot of talking, but we have not talked before. That’s good. That’s progress. No real hard outcome just yet, but we will get there. Maybe the next meeting or the meeting after that, we will plant a stake in the ground and say that we all want to do this. We all focus on food, clothing, and shelter. Let’s pin that up on the wall and say what can we do differently together to do this?”</p> <p>That can be scary to organizations because that does ultimately mean you are going to somebody in the room, probably everybody in the room will have to compromise a bit. You just need to know that going in. If you are going in saying, “I am not doing anything that is going to take something away from me or that causes me to lose influence or control over a certain area of my life,” if you go in there with that attitude, you might as well not be in the room. You have to go in saying, “This is not about me. This is about the community.” If there are points along the road here where I may be doing something that affects something we are measuring at United Way, maybe I need to let it go. If it’s better for the community, if what I lose is more than made up for by what the community gains, I should let it go.</p> <p>I will give you a good example. We run a backpack program right now. We fund several backpack programs, but we run a couple different schools out of the United Way. We get revenue for that. That revenue is included in our total pledges that we report at the end of the year. Ultimately, all those backpack programs need to coordinate and consolidate a little bit better. That probably will mean our backpack program could move to a more centralized program somewhere that might be able to do it more efficiently and effectively than us. If I move that backpack program out, that is probably the right thing to do to get it in a more efficient program. But I have also taken X thousands of dollars worth of revenue that had been associated with that program outside of my organization. Somebody looking at our dollars might say you just went from $100 to $75. You’re losing ground. Not really. I know where that program went. I know it’s doing better where it is now. It made more sense for it to be operated there. If I am collecting $25 less than I used to collect, that’s okay. That’s not a failure. In fact, that’s evidence we collaborated on something. If my only interest is in growing our revenue, I would never do that. That’s why you have to let that interest go. There is room for all of us. At some point, organizations may need to consolidate and think about shared purposes. Right now, we are in the earlier coordination and cooperation stage.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> One of the things I am clearly hearing is that you’re a catalyst for people to think differently.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> We are trying to be, and trying to facilitate conversations like that. and help them see that we are doing this, too. We are not some expert coming in and saying that we want you to do this and it’s going to be hard on you and easy for us. We are holding ourselves to that same standard. We can be the voice of experience and say, “Here is what we had to learn about ourselves and our behavior in order to do this effectively.” We want to share our experience with you and see if you could see there is a different way to think about things that might be more advantageous for the community.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re the champion of fostering new thinking, but you’re also bringing some skills, history, tools, and leadership to this. You re bringing business expertise into tax-exempt business models, which a lot of nonprofits don’t think of themselves that way. We have to generate revenue. Otherwise, we will go under. The unintended consequences are people want to go too fast, so you are encouraging people to take a deep breath.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Before starting a new organization out of the ground.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Or even two organizations- we spoke of one before we went live, which we won’t talk about here. We have two coming together who have had some history who had not talked about the philosophies and processes and values moving forward. They got to get to work. There is a self-imposed urgency sometimes. Are we in the long haul compromising our work by going too fast?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is something we could do now. Part of what United Way brings to the table in the community, you are not only working in Lynchburg, Virginia, but you are working in central Virginia.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Amherst, Bedford, Campbell, and Lynchburg.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s pretty much the footprint of the greater area.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> That is, yep.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> With the impact having more than just funding the programs. You’re a funding agency; however, you’re fostering this creative thinking about how to work together and how to go to the top a step at a time.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> We’re doing that not only around collaborative efforts, but we are also trying to establish a program that we are casually referring to now as beyond funding. Many people know us as a organization that does work to improve the community through fundraising that supports nonprofits. In the course of visiting all these nonprofits over the past year and getting familiar with how they operate, it’s become clear to me, and I’m sure you feel the same way, that they don’t have the marketing department and a finance department and a social media department and an HR department. In many cases, they have an executive director who might be a volunteer, certainly I daresay most are overworked and underpaid. They are in it because their heart is in it and they want to do the right thing. Our money we give them each year is important.</p> <p>They have ample needs beyond that. We survey our membership at the end of last year and asked, “Other than the money, what else could we be helping you with?” About 20 things that we thought they might answer to give them some prompts. We left it open-ended, too. We heard a lot of things. Most said we need help with grant writing, marketing, social media. Many said we need help with board development and board selection or coaching or performance reviews or my building. Our organization can help with some of those things directly. We have someone who writes grants. My background is strategic planning and business development, communications.</p> <p>Aside from our having to fulfill every one of those needs, what we want to do is serve as a broker between those organizations who have their needs and people in the community who can help you address those needs. Right now, one of our agencies who we had a meeting with last week, they need help with their finances. We connected them with somebody from a local employer who says they think they can help them out. We’re in the middle. We brokered the relationship. We will stay in touch with it and see if this organization can improve its financial situation. There are several who want grant writing help; we can probably provide that directly for them. We are trying to break the mold of us just being an annual check-writer. You all need help in various areas. Don’t be shy asking for help. Tell us, and we will work to get through it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s great. That’s a great model. People who are listening and reading the article are looking for ideas. How do we up our game? This will live on in its form as a podcast. As we do a wrap here, parts of this article are some of the other entities in the city, in the arts community and the church community. How do you interface with any of those in your work? Do you?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> In some cases, we are taking a sit back and wait and see posture. In many cases, we are directly at the table. Some of these efforts have just gotten started. We have United Way, Centra Foundation, Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation, and that is one group. We have another group that Nat Marshall has pulled together that is us, Salvation Army, Goodwill, Interfaith Outreach, and a couple others. We are in those very early stages of just talking. Poverty to Progress has its combined effort with Bridges out of Poverty. We are in some of the sub-committees of that. We are not sure exactly what our bigger role in that could be, but we probably need to spend some time with the leaders in that effort, Treney and Hugh, to understand what is a better place for us to plug in. Is there some place we can be more effective in that? Given that is one of our big focus areas—we focus on health, education, income, and basic human needs—under income, poverty is one of the biggest issues that we could possibly talk about addressing. We have things that we’re doing right now that are not yet looped into the Poverty to Progress initiative. We have more to do to build lines of communication there. Again, that is another one we are sitting back and waiting to see where is the best place for us to plug in. It’s broken down into eight or nine groups now. We think we need to try to figure out how to take these lofty conversations and turn those into actionable plans. That is where that effort is now and we may have a role there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s a shame there’s only one door. You have covered a lot of turf.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> You’re the only person who has said that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m getting tired thinking about it. There are a lot of sub-conversations in there. As we close this out, what thoughts would you share with other leaders who want to move into a partnership or collaborative relationship with their community? What thoughts would you have for them to go forward with?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> I’ll take a step back on that question, too. One thing I learned early on when I got into this role, and a certain experience in my life from my past made this role very compelling to me, made me be in a position to help people. As I have met executive directors in all the organizations that we support and other organizations, they tend to have a story. They have some reason they are in that type of work. Nobody gets into nonprofit work because of the glory, fame, and riches; you get into it because you care about it. That to me makes this an incredibly exciting sector to work in. The people that you work with are invigorated because they genuinely care. When you get caught up in operating an organization, you can turn down the light on that part of your brain and your heart and get obsessed with what you have to do today.</p> <p>My thought is when you go into a collaborative effort, remember what brought you there. What brought you there is you wanted to help people, not that you wanted to build an organization. If you can keep the light shining on that, the collaboration falls naturally behind. You have to be willing to let some personal interest go so that the benefit accrues to the community, not necessarily to you or your organization.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Bill Varner, visionary leader for United Way in central Virginia. Thank you for sharing your wisdom today.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Thank you for your time.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title> Lynchburg Mayor Treney Tweety on Partnerships</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/-lynchburg-mayor-treney-tweety-on-partnerships</link>
      <description>Hugh Ballou: This is Hugh Ballou, and I have the honor today. I am in Lynchburg, Virginia where I live. I have the honor of speaking to a native.
 Treney Tweedy: Yes, I am a native Lynchburger.
 Hugh: Burger. Treney, it’s a mouthful for me. Mayor Treney Tweedy. Hugh Ballou has its own challenge.
 Treney: Well, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me as your guest. We’re talking.
 Hugh: This is part of what we call The Nonprofit Exchange. We talk to people in social benefit work. They might be in government work, education, running a community for-purpose organization. We like reframing nonprofit to for-purpose. This is a live interview, but we are also recording and transcribing, preparing for the next issue of Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine, which is going to be about partnerships and collaborations. I moved to Lynchburg 13 months ago. It’s been a very welcoming community. I noticed unlike a lot of places, people do work together in some communities, but here there is a whole community spirit of let’s attack the issues that are holding us back. Back in history, before the Civil War, Lynchburg was one of the wealthiest cities in the country.
 Treney: We were. We do understand our place in history. A lot of that was because of industry, because of being located by the river, and the tobacco industry, and many areas of utilization of the river alongside the city. Families and businesses grew along with it.
 Hugh: Lynchburg comes from John Lynch.
 Treney: Yes, who ran the ferry. The businesses back then utilized him. He helped develop Lynchburg. I know people don’t understand that. They often don’t get where Lynchburg comes from. It does come from the founder John Lynch.
 Hugh: It’s a great story. A lot of great stories here. Our story today is about how leaders in this city, and it’s a right-sized city. Not too big. We have 80-something thousand?
 Treney: It’s about 80,00 residents. We are in a region of 250,000. Lynchburg is the anchor city with surrounding localities. We are a city of 80,000 strong. Numbers are going up. We are a city we feel is compassionate and caring and innovative in how we think and work together. It wasn’t difficult to say we have a problem. Previous leaders before myself looked as issues, tackled things as they came along. There have always been community dialogues around issues. It wasn’t unusual for us to look at our current issue, which was our poverty rate, a high poverty rate we have among families and children living in poverty, and say, “We are just big enough to have the problem, but small enough to do something about it.”
 So that started the conversation amongst the previous Mayor Joan Foster. When we were on the campaign trail, the poverty numbers came up. When we were talking about education and work force, the actual percentage rates, when they hit you in the face, that almost a quarter of the population lives under the poverty threshold, we think of ourselves as being that formerly wealthy city, a city of opportunity, a city where you have a church on every hill. We also have restaurants. We love to eat. We love economic development. We have a thriving downtown. So what’s going on that we still have a quarter of our residents living under that poverty threshold? Of that 24%, 9% of those are children who are living in that.
 Once you get the numbers, you understand where we are, many cities, we drive by poverty every day. Do we actually have the wherewithal or the gumption to say we are going to do something about this? We have a lot of faith leaders, faith communities, faith houses. We think we have a strong education system. We know we have a thriving economic system here and development. It’s not getting to everyone. Everyone is not seeing that opportunity. That is when the city manager, the previous mayor, Joan Foster and I sat down and just said, we are going to commit to talking about poverty every two weeks during our meetings. We are going to look at how to develop our plan of talking to nonprofits and organizations. Where is the first step? We went looking for plans. We didn’t really see the canned program, and this is what you are going to do to fix your problem. It had to be locally thought out and locally grown. The communication conversation, we knew we had to make it solely for Lynchburg and build it around Lynchburg.
 Hugh: That’s wonderful. I have attended two meetings recently. One was Mayor Joan’s last meeting. There were reports from some grants that the city had given two different constituents, and how they were working and working together was quite impressive. A few weeks ago, there was one with faith leaders in the community and how they are sharing things together. It’s another level of remarkable.
 You break the politician mold. One of the definitions of a politician is someone makes half the population mad at them.
 Treney: I can believe that.
 Hugh: I don’t know if that’s the standard definition, but it’s my definition. I experience a lot of synergy, a word which we are both fond of. As a conductor, ensemble is we synergize together. I see synergy in a broader sense. The spirit of what people are doing. It’s fair to say- we are recording this in October 2018. We are not at perfection. It’s a work in process.
 Let’s jump to the future as you and your colleagues have done work on this. What do you all see in the future? Have you looked at a future vision?
 Treney: Yes, it continues with the cooperation and the collaboration. We realized early on that government can’t do it all. We had to partner with nonprofits. While everyone has always partnered together in programming and events, this is how we move our community into its best future. That is shifting the idea of organizations that have been doing great work. Someone said, I can’t take credit for this, that we manage poverty well. How do we move people out of it? How do we affect that mindset and shift that thinking for families and individuals? We need the collective community—the nonprofit leaders, the volunteers, the education institutions—to help work with all of that, to shift the mindset. We have what I say, you always want or need more resources. We already have dollars coming into our city. How are they being utilized? How are they connecting to the issue at hand for us? A lot of organizations are serving the same people. When you actually look at the individual households and the families, they are the same folks who are maybe walking through different service buildings, different types of needs at different times. Prices that are coming into play.
 One catalyst for this work was our health care system. Centra system. Centra health care realized early on that they were serving a small number of families in the emergency room. It was costing a huge amount. About 1,100 people were costing them about $17 million in ER. It still wasn’t meeting our need of the crisis of that family or individual. They began to look at how we can spread out the medical services or the opportunities for people to have that better relationship with a health care provider that gives them ongoing assistance and management. They developed mobile medical clinics. They researched the specific street of life they are coming from. What are their health care needs on that street? That really began the conversation in part probably of people looking at our neighborhoods, our streets, our families, our homes. Tying the census track data to it. We know where folks in their households are. To be able not to affect that somehow with all the data available, all the technology. Centra created the mobile medical units that went around to each neighborhood and brought medical care to folks who couldn’t access it. Maybe a transportation system. What is a ten-minute car ride to get to a doctor appointment for you or I? It might have taken them an hour and a half to get on a bus and transfer. That just limits the mobility of folks to take their children and themselves.
 All of that is what began the greater conversation of the types of committees we needed in addressing the poverty issue. Child care. When somebody goes to work, do they have child care? Transportation system. How does our bus system get people to their necessary appointments, but also to a job that is on the outer part of the community? Not closer in downtown, but further out. How does that spoken wheel type of thing work? Do we have routes for people who are on the outskirts of the city? Or are they spending two hours to get around within a five-mile radius? What is that?
 We created those committees through the Poverty to Progress initiative to galvanize the community, to say, “These are what we think we need to do in reducing the challenges and the barriers.” Identified those. Asked the community, whoever wanted to, college students, seniors, youth, whichever neighborhoods you came from, work on a committee. Talk about the challenges. If we had resources, how would you apply them? The community identified the greatest challenges and how to begin to work on them. People change. That is a year of asking people to commit to need.
 What I am very pleased with is that city council also agreed that this is a challenge for our city. A unanimous vote, which happens, but maybe not all the time in a council setting. The unanimous vote came that we are 1) going to apply a position to work as the glue for this work, the connector, the liaison between city government, the nonprofits, and the citizens. They committed to half an individual salary that works in the city manager’s office. They also committed to grant funds, up to $5,000 each, up to $25,000 to have as what I call putting skin in the game. If someone has an idea to help our communities, whether it is individual research or some other funding source, we wanted them to be able to have the opportunity to apply for up to a $5,000 grant and then leverage that with either another nonprofit or another grant or other work that is going on to make actionable goals actually become reality. Each committee developed two actionable goals they would work on during the year with some funding tied to it. We have seen some great partnerships happen out of that.
 The biggest part of the work was breaking down the silos. Silos are a terrible word sometime. Getting people to talk to each other, sometimes entities that are responsible for federal dollars, state dollars, never really talk. Everyone needs their own system of data collection, their own outcomes. We are all still in one city. If you are responsible for human services work or social services work, and the city is appropriating funding, maybe there is another agency that is responsible for poverty reduction with federal dollars. If we never force the conversation, and everyone to come to the table to say what are the hand-offs, how come we are all serving the same families, how can we serve them differently. You may do this very well and have less funding. We have some money here that can be used, but we have never been able to do this work. It’s getting people to come to the table and getting them to talk. They may not have the plan laid out, so you have to come to the table ready knowing there is not one answer already there. We are working toward the answers. Every day that we have conversation, every day that we create the expectation that this is for the benefit of our community. I said it in several meetings, if you set the tone that we want this to be operating in the spirit of excellence. Whatever ideas, whatever resources, we want to put our best feet forward. We want folks to have stellar service and opportunities. Then we have to build it in that way.
 We can’t do things mediocrely. I feel like sometimes in the history over time, it was easier to be mediocre. We get to a certain level, and then it’s too hard. We work a grant, and then the funds are dried up, so the work goes away. But people still suffer. If you leave work half undone or you are not able to complete it or continue it, then you leave a neighborhood, folks who are sometimes left behind. There has not been a focus that has been on that neighborhood. Our students coming out of environments that are not healthy maybe for them. What do we do to make that better, improve? It’s all connected.
 Hugh: I mentioned a large portion of your work as mayor. I like to help clients do all kinds of things all over the world in reframing leadership as influence rather than authority. You can lead from your mayor position of authority, but from my experience, you are an influencer. You probably spend a lot of your time connecting and building relationships. You can pick something to delegate to. Who would do that? That person stepped up. Many leaders think delegation is a sign of weakness. You validated yourself a few times. You know delegation is a strength of leadership. You also understand we can meet some common goals when we come to our table. Besides being an influencer, you’re an encourager. I think sometimes people don’t think of that.
 Treney: We all have skills and talents. I recognize where I am weak in certain areas. I have learned over time. I have worked for private and public organizations. I have worked for superintendents, worked for the public school division here. I have seen the importance of building a great team and having a deep match. It’s great to have people that you know. They can get in and build a vision. They understand why we’re doing something. We trust people to be able to do their job and say, “This outcome is a reflection of all of us. It’s not just me.”
 As a politician, and that is what I appreciated about the previous mayor when she put me aside her as vice mayor. She had led dialogues on race and racism and healthy initiatives in our city. As far as being an organizer and understanding how to pull people together, I watched her do it over my first couple of years here. Coming into a political leadership if you will, I had the benefit of having worked for the public school division, sitting in on every school board meeting for eight, nine years, sitting in on joint city council and school board retreats. I was the public information officer, so I watched how leadership engaged and interacted and talked to staff and built their teams over the years with various city managers and school superintendents. Building a team of folks who understand their roles and allowing them to carry it out toward that mission or that vision just worked better.
 When you respect people for what they bring to the table, their background, their experience, they are invested, and they know they are part of a group doing some great work. You have to have the flexibility to have that freedom within yourself to say, It’s okay to let go a little bit. You watch and come back and are available to talk to folks about questions, concerns. How is this shaping up? Are we seeing the outcome? Are you seeing what’s expected? If not, what do we need to do? We are sometimes afraid to tweak the work. It’s important because there is no perfect solution out the gate. That is one thing about Poverty to Progress. Media stories will say, This didn’t go right. Where is the right and wrong? We are working toward something. We are local. We are home growing this if you will. We can go back and reset. We can reevaluate.
 That’s what we do with this process, with the Poverty to Progress. We merged with another group that was doing similar work from the regulation/policy side. It wasn’t about who started first. But they were a regional focus. We were Lynchburg-centric. We were really focused on Lynchburg. Once it became that they were pretty primarily working with Lynchburg residents and policy/regulation, another locality started looking at its own county to see what they could do for themselves because they were rural and we were city. We have merged the groups now, created a collaborative leadership team that is getting ready to meet. She has become a citizen volunteer now. I tell her if I leave, if other council members leave, that doesn’t mean the work should stop. How do you build that group of people, that process, whoever is in the seat, this work will still be a focus because it is part of our economic development, our eco-environment. We have to have successful families and individuals. We can’t leave a block or two- Our multi-million dollar development downtown, and you go three blocks over, and the average income is less than $20,000. I am throwing out a number. It’s just not good for the whole of the city.
 Hugh: We are close to the economic dividing line. Working with the churches on Court St is the dividing line. They are aware of that. There is a lot of stuff in there, a lot of information that represents very effective leadership. It’s effective. It gets traction. You have developed a system, so it’s not personality-centric. So many times, somebody builds a system around their personality. When they go, it crumbles. There is a lot of wisdom in that. There is a master plan for the city of Lynchburg. There are phases of that. As we moved in here August a year ago, streets were being paved.
 Treney: We still have work going on.
 Hugh: Even in that time, there has been remarkable progress. A bunch of unused buildings are now loft apartments. We have millennials and businesspeople and ordinary citizens and retired people moving downtown. We have a lot of restaurants in walking distance.
 Treney: We do. I wish I could say it was during my era of leadership. Previous councils and administrations built a plan and created that vision out in about 2001 or so. With that adoption came the development of downtown. Downtown was a ghost town. They decided to do something. A few developers were early pioneers. They came in, bought a building, and moved in. A few here and there. Council came on board with developing the master plan. What you are seeing today is the results of that plan and administrative teams sticking to that plan, making right decisions along the way, whether it was code enforcement or infrastructure decisions on staffing and how to work with new developers coming into town. We have approximately about 800 new residents downtown living in the lofts. With that, we put people into an area wherever it is, it is going to bring commercial development and businesses. Folks who live down there have needs. They want different opportunities. I was reading an email today from our Downtown Lynchburg Association. They are energetic and creating vibes of putting in pocket parks. When you go to the larger cities, you may be able to eat downtown at a little park for lunch with benches. People are really taking hold of what has happened and saying, “We can do this. We can take this public space and turn it into a park.”
 With the development of business is coming our arts community. While we have new hotels downtown that have been renovated from hotels of the ‘50s that went through transition and became housing and its own Section 8 housing, or housing for college students, developers came in and renovated wonderfully older hotels so that creates new business, new folks staying. Also, our arts academy has been renovated. It will open in December. Historically for the city that is important because originally when the academy was in its heyday, persons of color could not go in, or they had to go through the separate entrance with the separate ticket taker, sit way up in the top. December will be the first show where we have all of our community able to walk through the front doors of the newly renovated academy downtown.
 We are excited about our new residents, lofters living downtown. The businesses that come behind it. We have global businesses that have our corporate headquarters here. They have understood the investment of staying here with us and putting their main offices downtown. We have an entire city that is developing. For a city of our size, we have six colleges or universities that are located within our city. We embrace Sweet Briar, which is a college that is in another locality about 15 minutes away. With so much education, with global companies and various industries that are here with us, we know we have all the tools to make Lynchburg an even greater city in our future.
 How does it all connect? How does it all interact and engage? How do our citizens become beneficiaries of all of that great building and development? You have to sit down with key leaders, education leaders, faith leaders. We meet with college presidents. We have a great volunteer base of college students and rec departments. How do we all make it work to create that great city that people benefit from? That’s that future vision: it’s not just in my head, but someone that everyone embraces in order to put it in their future plan.
 Hugh: I work with business leaders as well as education and some government. We fail to think about the business model for what we’re doing. We think we don’t have a business model in government or nonprofit or church when we really do. We tend to gravitate toward the bad name businesses as greed. We are looking at the triple bottom line businesses who are social entrepreneurs who are creating goodwill for everyone. I see that you have that mindset.
 As a leader, from where you sit, I want to piggyback on what you said in passing about you wish you could claim that progress. This is the relay in the Olympics. The first runner hands off the baton. This is your leg. You can get behind or ahead. You’re part of this journey. You’ve been handed a really good baton and are in the lead. We are also not competing against other cities. We are shining our own light. There is nothing that compares to Lynchburg. We are our own shining light. Some people get in this “I have to be as good as them” mindset, or they want to copy others. When you said there wasn’t a model, that’s good because no model would fit here. There is unique challenges. One is called Hill City.
 Treney: And there is a reason. How do you utilize that? It’s great exercise. We have super steep hills for anyone who’d like to come. We have a great quality of life. It’s affordable to live here. Young families can start buying a home here. They are not using all of their discretionary income on housing. We have those opportunities, walking by the James River or going kayaking or keeping our faces sunned with great parks and trails here. When people decide to move here and they bring with them new ideas and new insights from their experiences, new directors and folks who take key positions, spreading information and communication about how people can become involved, how they can help with projects downtown or in other parts of our city. Just the energy of working with businesses. When businesses locate, what I hear repeatedly over and over is they want their employees to have a great quality of life. The education system matters. The quality of life of the community, which are all of that, the parks and trails and entertainment and green spaces. All of that matters. When you keep it focused, for me, this hand-off of the baton is about the economic environment, how we integrate our neighborhoods and our folks who are living under the poverty threshold. How do we integrate them into that economic opportunity? How do we shift folks’ language and thinking about their everyday spending habits and wanting to spend more or wanting to be part of home ownership? What does all of this mean? That is why I think it’s important for us to work together, to create an education opportunity as well as folks becoming involved. You have to try to get people to cast the vision for themselves. Businesses need a work force. We have to make sure our citizens are trained with the credentials and skills that entry level jobs are requiring these days. Businesses can pick up and go anywhere with a good environment. Other people have rivers. Other people have parks. What makes us unique is that work force system that we create. Giving people the soft skills, the training and credentials in the industry sectors that are important to Lynchburg and are thriving here, matching them with jobs. We want people to have jobs and careers that pay them well in order for them to be contributors of the tax base, of our residences and neighborhoods through home ownership, and just a part of that American dream. It’s not a dream. It can be reality. It is reality. We feel like with all of this work, we are creating pathways for people.
 A great wise person once said in a class that I took, I can’t take credit for this, but we talk about the prison pipelines. When you are in a pipe, it’s hard to get out. You have one end or the other. The pipe is solid. If you create pathways for people, they are able to get on or off. They are able to take a detour. There is a way on. That is why in meetings we have, for me personally, I always talk about creating career pathways and life pathways, different options. The way you and I enter that highway of life may not be the same in our careers, but if you at least shine the light on this as the direction, how you get there is several ways. It will be a great benefit to you as an individual or to your family or children.
 Telling our story. Cities and localities don’t tell their stories well about what their city looks like. We do marketing and branding campaigns. What does it mean to be a Lynchburger? How do you feel when you walk down Main Street and you can talk to your neighbor or someone else while you are running up Monument Terrace? It’s an engagement of being in a city of 80,000. We are just big enough, but just small enough. I can pick up the phone and call our faith leaders. I can call our business CEOs and presidents. We can have Town &amp; Gown meetings and invite them to the table. They are talking to us about their challenges, and we are able to lay our challenges and successes out there, too. Each layer of leadership in this city, everyone is willing to sit down at the table.
 Hugh: That’s a key component. I don’t see the leaders who make it about them. It’s about us. It’s about the community. It’s about the impact we have on humanity. Even the churches who are very different, I told you a story before we started about four unlikely churches working together, building some platforms for people to connect. Anything we haven’t touched on? I think we have covered a lot of stuff.
 Treney: We have. Hopefully I haven’t bored you too much.
 Hugh: I live here. You just gave away the secret of how good Lynchburg is. We have a lot of history here. I live across the street from the site of the Battle of Lynchburg. There is the Sandusky house. One of Thomas Jefferson’s homes is here. We have Monument Terrace. Those steps are the equivalent of eight floors.
 Treney: They are. Everybody uses it often every day every week. But also, it means a lot to our veteran community. We have a strong veteran community here. I served in the Navy for a couple years. I enjoyed my time there, which taught me discipline and collaboration. That is where I started my public relations work. It has continued from my early years as a young adult. Our veteran community here has met at the foot of Monument Terrace every Friday for over 350 weeks or so. It has been incredible. I think the last time I was there was at 52 weeks, several weeks had gone by. But it was at the start of the war. They were at war. To show support of the troops, to show that home was still praying for you and still connecting and still caring about you, they began to meet every Friday at 12 until 1. If you go out there.
 Hugh: They’re there now.
 Treney: They were there. They group up at the end right at 1. It’s one hour. That community at the base of Monument Terrace, which is a recognition of all the previous wars and the persons who lost their lives, that type of every Friday for years just meeting to support and show respect is this community. They come from the other localities. It’s not just Lynchburg resident folks. It is veterans from Korea and Vietnam and folks who come home and know. That is the community that- We reference the faith leaders, but we also have a strong veteran community. We are not located near an active duty base like Norfolk or the Pentagon or the Virginia. But we have a lot of veterans that just support several efforts. They come together and create that idea that we all care. We all collaborate. We all work together. That is an example. I just wanted to share with folks the commitment that individuals and organizations in our community have. We respect that and the work they do. Everyone has something to contribute.
 Hugh: There is an anchor when you say that we respect.
 As we are wrapping up this really good interview, any particular thought, challenge, or tip that you would like to leave with leaders? We mostly have nonprofit leaders, but we have all kinds of people who listen and read.
 Treney: Be open to new experiences. Be open to working with new people. Everyone has a voice or background or experience or story that you can either glean something from or contribute toward the work you do. You may be able to share your story or narrative with other people. When we do that and we open ourselves for learning and connecting with others, or the respect factor or listening, you will see great things happen. You really will.
 Hugh: Very good words. Treney Tweedy, thank you so much for sharing.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7b94ec0c-b329-11eb-9f0f-d3b0570b6454/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leading in Community in New Paradigms for Collaboration</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Hugh Ballou: This is Hugh Ballou, and I have the honor today. I am in Lynchburg, Virginia where I live. I have the honor of speaking to a native.
 Treney Tweedy: Yes, I am a native Lynchburger.
 Hugh: Burger. Treney, it’s a mouthful for me. Mayor Treney Tweedy. Hugh Ballou has its own challenge.
 Treney: Well, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me as your guest. We’re talking.
 Hugh: This is part of what we call The Nonprofit Exchange. We talk to people in social benefit work. They might be in government work, education, running a community for-purpose organization. We like reframing nonprofit to for-purpose. This is a live interview, but we are also recording and transcribing, preparing for the next issue of Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine, which is going to be about partnerships and collaborations. I moved to Lynchburg 13 months ago. It’s been a very welcoming community. I noticed unlike a lot of places, people do work together in some communities, but here there is a whole community spirit of let’s attack the issues that are holding us back. Back in history, before the Civil War, Lynchburg was one of the wealthiest cities in the country.
 Treney: We were. We do understand our place in history. A lot of that was because of industry, because of being located by the river, and the tobacco industry, and many areas of utilization of the river alongside the city. Families and businesses grew along with it.
 Hugh: Lynchburg comes from John Lynch.
 Treney: Yes, who ran the ferry. The businesses back then utilized him. He helped develop Lynchburg. I know people don’t understand that. They often don’t get where Lynchburg comes from. It does come from the founder John Lynch.
 Hugh: It’s a great story. A lot of great stories here. Our story today is about how leaders in this city, and it’s a right-sized city. Not too big. We have 80-something thousand?
 Treney: It’s about 80,00 residents. We are in a region of 250,000. Lynchburg is the anchor city with surrounding localities. We are a city of 80,000 strong. Numbers are going up. We are a city we feel is compassionate and caring and innovative in how we think and work together. It wasn’t difficult to say we have a problem. Previous leaders before myself looked as issues, tackled things as they came along. There have always been community dialogues around issues. It wasn’t unusual for us to look at our current issue, which was our poverty rate, a high poverty rate we have among families and children living in poverty, and say, “We are just big enough to have the problem, but small enough to do something about it.”
 So that started the conversation amongst the previous Mayor Joan Foster. When we were on the campaign trail, the poverty numbers came up. When we were talking about education and work force, the actual percentage rates, when they hit you in the face, that almost a quarter of the population lives under the poverty threshold, we think of ourselves as being that formerly wealthy city, a city of opportunity, a city where you have a church on every hill. We also have restaurants. We love to eat. We love economic development. We have a thriving downtown. So what’s going on that we still have a quarter of our residents living under that poverty threshold? Of that 24%, 9% of those are children who are living in that.
 Once you get the numbers, you understand where we are, many cities, we drive by poverty every day. Do we actually have the wherewithal or the gumption to say we are going to do something about this? We have a lot of faith leaders, faith communities, faith houses. We think we have a strong education system. We know we have a thriving economic system here and development. It’s not getting to everyone. Everyone is not seeing that opportunity. That is when the city manager, the previous mayor, Joan Foster and I sat down and just said, we are going to commit to talking about poverty every two weeks during our meetings. We are going to look at how to develop our plan of talking to nonprofits and organizations. Where is the first step? We went looking for plans. We didn’t really see the canned program, and this is what you are going to do to fix your problem. It had to be locally thought out and locally grown. The communication conversation, we knew we had to make it solely for Lynchburg and build it around Lynchburg.
 Hugh: That’s wonderful. I have attended two meetings recently. One was Mayor Joan’s last meeting. There were reports from some grants that the city had given two different constituents, and how they were working and working together was quite impressive. A few weeks ago, there was one with faith leaders in the community and how they are sharing things together. It’s another level of remarkable.
 You break the politician mold. One of the definitions of a politician is someone makes half the population mad at them.
 Treney: I can believe that.
 Hugh: I don’t know if that’s the standard definition, but it’s my definition. I experience a lot of synergy, a word which we are both fond of. As a conductor, ensemble is we synergize together. I see synergy in a broader sense. The spirit of what people are doing. It’s fair to say- we are recording this in October 2018. We are not at perfection. It’s a work in process.
 Let’s jump to the future as you and your colleagues have done work on this. What do you all see in the future? Have you looked at a future vision?
 Treney: Yes, it continues with the cooperation and the collaboration. We realized early on that government can’t do it all. We had to partner with nonprofits. While everyone has always partnered together in programming and events, this is how we move our community into its best future. That is shifting the idea of organizations that have been doing great work. Someone said, I can’t take credit for this, that we manage poverty well. How do we move people out of it? How do we affect that mindset and shift that thinking for families and individuals? We need the collective community—the nonprofit leaders, the volunteers, the education institutions—to help work with all of that, to shift the mindset. We have what I say, you always want or need more resources. We already have dollars coming into our city. How are they being utilized? How are they connecting to the issue at hand for us? A lot of organizations are serving the same people. When you actually look at the individual households and the families, they are the same folks who are maybe walking through different service buildings, different types of needs at different times. Prices that are coming into play.
 One catalyst for this work was our health care system. Centra system. Centra health care realized early on that they were serving a small number of families in the emergency room. It was costing a huge amount. About 1,100 people were costing them about $17 million in ER. It still wasn’t meeting our need of the crisis of that family or individual. They began to look at how we can spread out the medical services or the opportunities for people to have that better relationship with a health care provider that gives them ongoing assistance and management. They developed mobile medical clinics. They researched the specific street of life they are coming from. What are their health care needs on that street? That really began the conversation in part probably of people looking at our neighborhoods, our streets, our families, our homes. Tying the census track data to it. We know where folks in their households are. To be able not to affect that somehow with all the data available, all the technology. Centra created the mobile medical units that went around to each neighborhood and brought medical care to folks who couldn’t access it. Maybe a transportation system. What is a ten-minute car ride to get to a doctor appointment for you or I? It might have taken them an hour and a half to get on a bus and transfer. That just limits the mobility of folks to take their children and themselves.
 All of that is what began the greater conversation of the types of committees we needed in addressing the poverty issue. Child care. When somebody goes to work, do they have child care? Transportation system. How does our bus system get people to their necessary appointments, but also to a job that is on the outer part of the community? Not closer in downtown, but further out. How does that spoken wheel type of thing work? Do we have routes for people who are on the outskirts of the city? Or are they spending two hours to get around within a five-mile radius? What is that?
 We created those committees through the Poverty to Progress initiative to galvanize the community, to say, “These are what we think we need to do in reducing the challenges and the barriers.” Identified those. Asked the community, whoever wanted to, college students, seniors, youth, whichever neighborhoods you came from, work on a committee. Talk about the challenges. If we had resources, how would you apply them? The community identified the greatest challenges and how to begin to work on them. People change. That is a year of asking people to commit to need.
 What I am very pleased with is that city council also agreed that this is a challenge for our city. A unanimous vote, which happens, but maybe not all the time in a council setting. The unanimous vote came that we are 1) going to apply a position to work as the glue for this work, the connector, the liaison between city government, the nonprofits, and the citizens. They committed to half an individual salary that works in the city manager’s office. They also committed to grant funds, up to $5,000 each, up to $25,000 to have as what I call putting skin in the game. If someone has an idea to help our communities, whether it is individual research or some other funding source, we wanted them to be able to have the opportunity to apply for up to a $5,000 grant and then leverage that with either another nonprofit or another grant or other work that is going on to make actionable goals actually become reality. Each committee developed two actionable goals they would work on during the year with some funding tied to it. We have seen some great partnerships happen out of that.
 The biggest part of the work was breaking down the silos. Silos are a terrible word sometime. Getting people to talk to each other, sometimes entities that are responsible for federal dollars, state dollars, never really talk. Everyone needs their own system of data collection, their own outcomes. We are all still in one city. If you are responsible for human services work or social services work, and the city is appropriating funding, maybe there is another agency that is responsible for poverty reduction with federal dollars. If we never force the conversation, and everyone to come to the table to say what are the hand-offs, how come we are all serving the same families, how can we serve them differently. You may do this very well and have less funding. We have some money here that can be used, but we have never been able to do this work. It’s getting people to come to the table and getting them to talk. They may not have the plan laid out, so you have to come to the table ready knowing there is not one answer already there. We are working toward the answers. Every day that we have conversation, every day that we create the expectation that this is for the benefit of our community. I said it in several meetings, if you set the tone that we want this to be operating in the spirit of excellence. Whatever ideas, whatever resources, we want to put our best feet forward. We want folks to have stellar service and opportunities. Then we have to build it in that way.
 We can’t do things mediocrely. I feel like sometimes in the history over time, it was easier to be mediocre. We get to a certain level, and then it’s too hard. We work a grant, and then the funds are dried up, so the work goes away. But people still suffer. If you leave work half undone or you are not able to complete it or continue it, then you leave a neighborhood, folks who are sometimes left behind. There has not been a focus that has been on that neighborhood. Our students coming out of environments that are not healthy maybe for them. What do we do to make that better, improve? It’s all connected.
 Hugh: I mentioned a large portion of your work as mayor. I like to help clients do all kinds of things all over the world in reframing leadership as influence rather than authority. You can lead from your mayor position of authority, but from my experience, you are an influencer. You probably spend a lot of your time connecting and building relationships. You can pick something to delegate to. Who would do that? That person stepped up. Many leaders think delegation is a sign of weakness. You validated yourself a few times. You know delegation is a strength of leadership. You also understand we can meet some common goals when we come to our table. Besides being an influencer, you’re an encourager. I think sometimes people don’t think of that.
 Treney: We all have skills and talents. I recognize where I am weak in certain areas. I have learned over time. I have worked for private and public organizations. I have worked for superintendents, worked for the public school division here. I have seen the importance of building a great team and having a deep match. It’s great to have people that you know. They can get in and build a vision. They understand why we’re doing something. We trust people to be able to do their job and say, “This outcome is a reflection of all of us. It’s not just me.”
 As a politician, and that is what I appreciated about the previous mayor when she put me aside her as vice mayor. She had led dialogues on race and racism and healthy initiatives in our city. As far as being an organizer and understanding how to pull people together, I watched her do it over my first couple of years here. Coming into a political leadership if you will, I had the benefit of having worked for the public school division, sitting in on every school board meeting for eight, nine years, sitting in on joint city council and school board retreats. I was the public information officer, so I watched how leadership engaged and interacted and talked to staff and built their teams over the years with various city managers and school superintendents. Building a team of folks who understand their roles and allowing them to carry it out toward that mission or that vision just worked better.
 When you respect people for what they bring to the table, their background, their experience, they are invested, and they know they are part of a group doing some great work. You have to have the flexibility to have that freedom within yourself to say, It’s okay to let go a little bit. You watch and come back and are available to talk to folks about questions, concerns. How is this shaping up? Are we seeing the outcome? Are you seeing what’s expected? If not, what do we need to do? We are sometimes afraid to tweak the work. It’s important because there is no perfect solution out the gate. That is one thing about Poverty to Progress. Media stories will say, This didn’t go right. Where is the right and wrong? We are working toward something. We are local. We are home growing this if you will. We can go back and reset. We can reevaluate.
 That’s what we do with this process, with the Poverty to Progress. We merged with another group that was doing similar work from the regulation/policy side. It wasn’t about who started first. But they were a regional focus. We were Lynchburg-centric. We were really focused on Lynchburg. Once it became that they were pretty primarily working with Lynchburg residents and policy/regulation, another locality started looking at its own county to see what they could do for themselves because they were rural and we were city. We have merged the groups now, created a collaborative leadership team that is getting ready to meet. She has become a citizen volunteer now. I tell her if I leave, if other council members leave, that doesn’t mean the work should stop. How do you build that group of people, that process, whoever is in the seat, this work will still be a focus because it is part of our economic development, our eco-environment. We have to have successful families and individuals. We can’t leave a block or two- Our multi-million dollar development downtown, and you go three blocks over, and the average income is less than $20,000. I am throwing out a number. It’s just not good for the whole of the city.
 Hugh: We are close to the economic dividing line. Working with the churches on Court St is the dividing line. They are aware of that. There is a lot of stuff in there, a lot of information that represents very effective leadership. It’s effective. It gets traction. You have developed a system, so it’s not personality-centric. So many times, somebody builds a system around their personality. When they go, it crumbles. There is a lot of wisdom in that. There is a master plan for the city of Lynchburg. There are phases of that. As we moved in here August a year ago, streets were being paved.
 Treney: We still have work going on.
 Hugh: Even in that time, there has been remarkable progress. A bunch of unused buildings are now loft apartments. We have millennials and businesspeople and ordinary citizens and retired people moving downtown. We have a lot of restaurants in walking distance.
 Treney: We do. I wish I could say it was during my era of leadership. Previous councils and administrations built a plan and created that vision out in about 2001 or so. With that adoption came the development of downtown. Downtown was a ghost town. They decided to do something. A few developers were early pioneers. They came in, bought a building, and moved in. A few here and there. Council came on board with developing the master plan. What you are seeing today is the results of that plan and administrative teams sticking to that plan, making right decisions along the way, whether it was code enforcement or infrastructure decisions on staffing and how to work with new developers coming into town. We have approximately about 800 new residents downtown living in the lofts. With that, we put people into an area wherever it is, it is going to bring commercial development and businesses. Folks who live down there have needs. They want different opportunities. I was reading an email today from our Downtown Lynchburg Association. They are energetic and creating vibes of putting in pocket parks. When you go to the larger cities, you may be able to eat downtown at a little park for lunch with benches. People are really taking hold of what has happened and saying, “We can do this. We can take this public space and turn it into a park.”
 With the development of business is coming our arts community. While we have new hotels downtown that have been renovated from hotels of the ‘50s that went through transition and became housing and its own Section 8 housing, or housing for college students, developers came in and renovated wonderfully older hotels so that creates new business, new folks staying. Also, our arts academy has been renovated. It will open in December. Historically for the city that is important because originally when the academy was in its heyday, persons of color could not go in, or they had to go through the separate entrance with the separate ticket taker, sit way up in the top. December will be the first show where we have all of our community able to walk through the front doors of the newly renovated academy downtown.
 We are excited about our new residents, lofters living downtown. The businesses that come behind it. We have global businesses that have our corporate headquarters here. They have understood the investment of staying here with us and putting their main offices downtown. We have an entire city that is developing. For a city of our size, we have six colleges or universities that are located within our city. We embrace Sweet Briar, which is a college that is in another locality about 15 minutes away. With so much education, with global companies and various industries that are here with us, we know we have all the tools to make Lynchburg an even greater city in our future.
 How does it all connect? How does it all interact and engage? How do our citizens become beneficiaries of all of that great building and development? You have to sit down with key leaders, education leaders, faith leaders. We meet with college presidents. We have a great volunteer base of college students and rec departments. How do we all make it work to create that great city that people benefit from? That’s that future vision: it’s not just in my head, but someone that everyone embraces in order to put it in their future plan.
 Hugh: I work with business leaders as well as education and some government. We fail to think about the business model for what we’re doing. We think we don’t have a business model in government or nonprofit or church when we really do. We tend to gravitate toward the bad name businesses as greed. We are looking at the triple bottom line businesses who are social entrepreneurs who are creating goodwill for everyone. I see that you have that mindset.
 As a leader, from where you sit, I want to piggyback on what you said in passing about you wish you could claim that progress. This is the relay in the Olympics. The first runner hands off the baton. This is your leg. You can get behind or ahead. You’re part of this journey. You’ve been handed a really good baton and are in the lead. We are also not competing against other cities. We are shining our own light. There is nothing that compares to Lynchburg. We are our own shining light. Some people get in this “I have to be as good as them” mindset, or they want to copy others. When you said there wasn’t a model, that’s good because no model would fit here. There is unique challenges. One is called Hill City.
 Treney: And there is a reason. How do you utilize that? It’s great exercise. We have super steep hills for anyone who’d like to come. We have a great quality of life. It’s affordable to live here. Young families can start buying a home here. They are not using all of their discretionary income on housing. We have those opportunities, walking by the James River or going kayaking or keeping our faces sunned with great parks and trails here. When people decide to move here and they bring with them new ideas and new insights from their experiences, new directors and folks who take key positions, spreading information and communication about how people can become involved, how they can help with projects downtown or in other parts of our city. Just the energy of working with businesses. When businesses locate, what I hear repeatedly over and over is they want their employees to have a great quality of life. The education system matters. The quality of life of the community, which are all of that, the parks and trails and entertainment and green spaces. All of that matters. When you keep it focused, for me, this hand-off of the baton is about the economic environment, how we integrate our neighborhoods and our folks who are living under the poverty threshold. How do we integrate them into that economic opportunity? How do we shift folks’ language and thinking about their everyday spending habits and wanting to spend more or wanting to be part of home ownership? What does all of this mean? That is why I think it’s important for us to work together, to create an education opportunity as well as folks becoming involved. You have to try to get people to cast the vision for themselves. Businesses need a work force. We have to make sure our citizens are trained with the credentials and skills that entry level jobs are requiring these days. Businesses can pick up and go anywhere with a good environment. Other people have rivers. Other people have parks. What makes us unique is that work force system that we create. Giving people the soft skills, the training and credentials in the industry sectors that are important to Lynchburg and are thriving here, matching them with jobs. We want people to have jobs and careers that pay them well in order for them to be contributors of the tax base, of our residences and neighborhoods through home ownership, and just a part of that American dream. It’s not a dream. It can be reality. It is reality. We feel like with all of this work, we are creating pathways for people.
 A great wise person once said in a class that I took, I can’t take credit for this, but we talk about the prison pipelines. When you are in a pipe, it’s hard to get out. You have one end or the other. The pipe is solid. If you create pathways for people, they are able to get on or off. They are able to take a detour. There is a way on. That is why in meetings we have, for me personally, I always talk about creating career pathways and life pathways, different options. The way you and I enter that highway of life may not be the same in our careers, but if you at least shine the light on this as the direction, how you get there is several ways. It will be a great benefit to you as an individual or to your family or children.
 Telling our story. Cities and localities don’t tell their stories well about what their city looks like. We do marketing and branding campaigns. What does it mean to be a Lynchburger? How do you feel when you walk down Main Street and you can talk to your neighbor or someone else while you are running up Monument Terrace? It’s an engagement of being in a city of 80,000. We are just big enough, but just small enough. I can pick up the phone and call our faith leaders. I can call our business CEOs and presidents. We can have Town &amp; Gown meetings and invite them to the table. They are talking to us about their challenges, and we are able to lay our challenges and successes out there, too. Each layer of leadership in this city, everyone is willing to sit down at the table.
 Hugh: That’s a key component. I don’t see the leaders who make it about them. It’s about us. It’s about the community. It’s about the impact we have on humanity. Even the churches who are very different, I told you a story before we started about four unlikely churches working together, building some platforms for people to connect. Anything we haven’t touched on? I think we have covered a lot of stuff.
 Treney: We have. Hopefully I haven’t bored you too much.
 Hugh: I live here. You just gave away the secret of how good Lynchburg is. We have a lot of history here. I live across the street from the site of the Battle of Lynchburg. There is the Sandusky house. One of Thomas Jefferson’s homes is here. We have Monument Terrace. Those steps are the equivalent of eight floors.
 Treney: They are. Everybody uses it often every day every week. But also, it means a lot to our veteran community. We have a strong veteran community here. I served in the Navy for a couple years. I enjoyed my time there, which taught me discipline and collaboration. That is where I started my public relations work. It has continued from my early years as a young adult. Our veteran community here has met at the foot of Monument Terrace every Friday for over 350 weeks or so. It has been incredible. I think the last time I was there was at 52 weeks, several weeks had gone by. But it was at the start of the war. They were at war. To show support of the troops, to show that home was still praying for you and still connecting and still caring about you, they began to meet every Friday at 12 until 1. If you go out there.
 Hugh: They’re there now.
 Treney: They were there. They group up at the end right at 1. It’s one hour. That community at the base of Monument Terrace, which is a recognition of all the previous wars and the persons who lost their lives, that type of every Friday for years just meeting to support and show respect is this community. They come from the other localities. It’s not just Lynchburg resident folks. It is veterans from Korea and Vietnam and folks who come home and know. That is the community that- We reference the faith leaders, but we also have a strong veteran community. We are not located near an active duty base like Norfolk or the Pentagon or the Virginia. But we have a lot of veterans that just support several efforts. They come together and create that idea that we all care. We all collaborate. We all work together. That is an example. I just wanted to share with folks the commitment that individuals and organizations in our community have. We respect that and the work they do. Everyone has something to contribute.
 Hugh: There is an anchor when you say that we respect.
 As we are wrapping up this really good interview, any particular thought, challenge, or tip that you would like to leave with leaders? We mostly have nonprofit leaders, but we have all kinds of people who listen and read.
 Treney: Be open to new experiences. Be open to working with new people. Everyone has a voice or background or experience or story that you can either glean something from or contribute toward the work you do. You may be able to share your story or narrative with other people. When we do that and we open ourselves for learning and connecting with others, or the respect factor or listening, you will see great things happen. You really will.
 Hugh: Very good words. Treney Tweedy, thank you so much for sharing.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Hugh Ballou</strong>: This is Hugh Ballou, and I have the honor today. I am in Lynchburg, Virginia where I live. I have the honor of speaking to a native.</p> <p><strong>Treney Tweedy:</strong> Yes, I am a native Lynchburger.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Burger. Treney, it’s a mouthful for me. Mayor Treney Tweedy. Hugh Ballou has its own challenge.</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> Well, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me as your guest. We’re talking.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is part of what we call <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> We talk to people in social benefit work. They might be in government work, education, running a community for-purpose organization. We like reframing nonprofit to for-purpose. This is a live interview, but we are also recording and transcribing, preparing for the next issue of <em>Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine,</em> which is going to be about partnerships and collaborations. I moved to Lynchburg 13 months ago. It’s been a very welcoming community. I noticed unlike a lot of places, people do work together in some communities, but here there is a whole community spirit of let’s attack the issues that are holding us back. Back in history, before the Civil War, Lynchburg was one of the wealthiest cities in the country.</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> We were. We do understand our place in history. A lot of that was because of industry, because of being located by the river, and the tobacco industry, and many areas of utilization of the river alongside the city. Families and businesses grew along with it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Lynchburg comes from John Lynch.</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> Yes, who ran the ferry. The businesses back then utilized him. He helped develop Lynchburg. I know people don’t understand that. They often don’t get where Lynchburg comes from. It does come from the founder John Lynch.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s a great story. A lot of great stories here. Our story today is about how leaders in this city, and it’s a right-sized city. Not too big. We have 80-something thousand?</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> It’s about 80,00 residents. We are in a region of 250,000. Lynchburg is the anchor city with surrounding localities. We are a city of 80,000 strong. Numbers are going up. We are a city we feel is compassionate and caring and innovative in how we think and work together. It wasn’t difficult to say we have a problem. Previous leaders before myself looked as issues, tackled things as they came along. There have always been community dialogues around issues. It wasn’t unusual for us to look at our current issue, which was our poverty rate, a high poverty rate we have among families and children living in poverty, and say, “We are just big enough to have the problem, but small enough to do something about it.”</p> <p>So that started the conversation amongst the previous Mayor Joan Foster. When we were on the campaign trail, the poverty numbers came up. When we were talking about education and work force, the actual percentage rates, when they hit you in the face, that almost a quarter of the population lives under the poverty threshold, we think of ourselves as being that formerly wealthy city, a city of opportunity, a city where you have a church on every hill. We also have restaurants. We love to eat. We love economic development. We have a thriving downtown. So what’s going on that we still have a quarter of our residents living under that poverty threshold? Of that 24%, 9% of those are children who are living in that.</p> <p>Once you get the numbers, you understand where we are, many cities, we drive by poverty every day. Do we actually have the wherewithal or the gumption to say we are going to do something about this? We have a lot of faith leaders, faith communities, faith houses. We think we have a strong education system. We know we have a thriving economic system here and development. It’s not getting to everyone. Everyone is not seeing that opportunity. That is when the city manager, the previous mayor, Joan Foster and I sat down and just said, we are going to commit to talking about poverty every two weeks during our meetings. We are going to look at how to develop our plan of talking to nonprofits and organizations. Where is the first step? We went looking for plans. We didn’t really see the canned program, and this is what you are going to do to fix your problem. It had to be locally thought out and locally grown. The communication conversation, we knew we had to make it solely for Lynchburg and build it around Lynchburg.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s wonderful. I have attended two meetings recently. One was Mayor Joan’s last meeting. There were reports from some grants that the city had given two different constituents, and how they were working and working together was quite impressive. A few weeks ago, there was one with faith leaders in the community and how they are sharing things together. It’s another level of remarkable.</p> <p>You break the politician mold. One of the definitions of a politician is someone makes half the population mad at them.</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> I can believe that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I don’t know if that’s the standard definition, but it’s my definition. I experience a lot of synergy, a word which we are both fond of. As a conductor, ensemble is we synergize together. I see synergy in a broader sense. The spirit of what people are doing. It’s fair to say- we are recording this in October 2018. We are not at perfection. It’s a work in process.</p> <p>Let’s jump to the future as you and your colleagues have done work on this. What do you all see in the future? Have you looked at a future vision?</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> Yes, it continues with the cooperation and the collaboration. We realized early on that government can’t do it all. We had to partner with nonprofits. While everyone has always partnered together in programming and events, this is how we move our community into its best future. That is shifting the idea of organizations that have been doing great work. Someone said, I can’t take credit for this, that we manage poverty well. How do we move people out of it? How do we affect that mindset and shift that thinking for families and individuals? We need the collective community—the nonprofit leaders, the volunteers, the education institutions—to help work with all of that, to shift the mindset. We have what I say, you always want or need more resources. We already have dollars coming into our city. How are they being utilized? How are they connecting to the issue at hand for us? A lot of organizations are serving the same people. When you actually look at the individual households and the families, they are the same folks who are maybe walking through different service buildings, different types of needs at different times. Prices that are coming into play.</p> <p>One catalyst for this work was our health care system. Centra system. Centra health care realized early on that they were serving a small number of families in the emergency room. It was costing a huge amount. About 1,100 people were costing them about $17 million in ER. It still wasn’t meeting our need of the crisis of that family or individual. They began to look at how we can spread out the medical services or the opportunities for people to have that better relationship with a health care provider that gives them ongoing assistance and management. They developed mobile medical clinics. They researched the specific street of life they are coming from. What are their health care needs on that street? That really began the conversation in part probably of people looking at our neighborhoods, our streets, our families, our homes. Tying the census track data to it. We know where folks in their households are. To be able not to affect that somehow with all the data available, all the technology. Centra created the mobile medical units that went around to each neighborhood and brought medical care to folks who couldn’t access it. Maybe a transportation system. What is a ten-minute car ride to get to a doctor appointment for you or I? It might have taken them an hour and a half to get on a bus and transfer. That just limits the mobility of folks to take their children and themselves.</p> <p>All of that is what began the greater conversation of the types of committees we needed in addressing the poverty issue. Child care. When somebody goes to work, do they have child care? Transportation system. How does our bus system get people to their necessary appointments, but also to a job that is on the outer part of the community? Not closer in downtown, but further out. How does that spoken wheel type of thing work? Do we have routes for people who are on the outskirts of the city? Or are they spending two hours to get around within a five-mile radius? What is that?</p> <p>We created those committees through the Poverty to Progress initiative to galvanize the community, to say, “These are what we think we need to do in reducing the challenges and the barriers.” Identified those. Asked the community, whoever wanted to, college students, seniors, youth, whichever neighborhoods you came from, work on a committee. Talk about the challenges. If we had resources, how would you apply them? The community identified the greatest challenges and how to begin to work on them. People change. That is a year of asking people to commit to need.</p> <p>What I am very pleased with is that city council also agreed that this is a challenge for our city. A unanimous vote, which happens, but maybe not all the time in a council setting. The unanimous vote came that we are 1) going to apply a position to work as the glue for this work, the connector, the liaison between city government, the nonprofits, and the citizens. They committed to half an individual salary that works in the city manager’s office. They also committed to grant funds, up to $5,000 each, up to $25,000 to have as what I call putting skin in the game. If someone has an idea to help our communities, whether it is individual research or some other funding source, we wanted them to be able to have the opportunity to apply for up to a $5,000 grant and then leverage that with either another nonprofit or another grant or other work that is going on to make actionable goals actually become reality. Each committee developed two actionable goals they would work on during the year with some funding tied to it. We have seen some great partnerships happen out of that.</p> <p>The biggest part of the work was breaking down the silos. Silos are a terrible word sometime. Getting people to talk to each other, sometimes entities that are responsible for federal dollars, state dollars, never really talk. Everyone needs their own system of data collection, their own outcomes. We are all still in one city. If you are responsible for human services work or social services work, and the city is appropriating funding, maybe there is another agency that is responsible for poverty reduction with federal dollars. If we never force the conversation, and everyone to come to the table to say what are the hand-offs, how come we are all serving the same families, how can we serve them differently. You may do this very well and have less funding. We have some money here that can be used, but we have never been able to do this work. It’s getting people to come to the table and getting them to talk. They may not have the plan laid out, so you have to come to the table ready knowing there is not one answer already there. We are working toward the answers. Every day that we have conversation, every day that we create the expectation that this is for the benefit of our community. I said it in several meetings, if you set the tone that we want this to be operating in the spirit of excellence. Whatever ideas, whatever resources, we want to put our best feet forward. We want folks to have stellar service and opportunities. Then we have to build it in that way.</p> <p>We can’t do things mediocrely. I feel like sometimes in the history over time, it was easier to be mediocre. We get to a certain level, and then it’s too hard. We work a grant, and then the funds are dried up, so the work goes away. But people still suffer. If you leave work half undone or you are not able to complete it or continue it, then you leave a neighborhood, folks who are sometimes left behind. There has not been a focus that has been on that neighborhood. Our students coming out of environments that are not healthy maybe for them. What do we do to make that better, improve? It’s all connected.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I mentioned a large portion of your work as mayor. I like to help clients do all kinds of things all over the world in reframing leadership as influence rather than authority. You can lead from your mayor position of authority, but from my experience, you are an influencer. You probably spend a lot of your time connecting and building relationships. You can pick something to delegate to. Who would do that? That person stepped up. Many leaders think delegation is a sign of weakness. You validated yourself a few times. You know delegation is a strength of leadership. You also understand we can meet some common goals when we come to our table. Besides being an influencer, you’re an encourager. I think sometimes people don’t think of that.</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> We all have skills and talents. I recognize where I am weak in certain areas. I have learned over time. I have worked for private and public organizations. I have worked for superintendents, worked for the public school division here. I have seen the importance of building a great team and having a deep match. It’s great to have people that you know. They can get in and build a vision. They understand why we’re doing something. We trust people to be able to do their job and say, “This outcome is a reflection of all of us. It’s not just me.”</p> <p>As a politician, and that is what I appreciated about the previous mayor when she put me aside her as vice mayor. She had led dialogues on race and racism and healthy initiatives in our city. As far as being an organizer and understanding how to pull people together, I watched her do it over my first couple of years here. Coming into a political leadership if you will, I had the benefit of having worked for the public school division, sitting in on every school board meeting for eight, nine years, sitting in on joint city council and school board retreats. I was the public information officer, so I watched how leadership engaged and interacted and talked to staff and built their teams over the years with various city managers and school superintendents. Building a team of folks who understand their roles and allowing them to carry it out toward that mission or that vision just worked better.</p> <p>When you respect people for what they bring to the table, their background, their experience, they are invested, and they know they are part of a group doing some great work. You have to have the flexibility to have that freedom within yourself to say, It’s okay to let go a little bit. You watch and come back and are available to talk to folks about questions, concerns. How is this shaping up? Are we seeing the outcome? Are you seeing what’s expected? If not, what do we need to do? We are sometimes afraid to tweak the work. It’s important because there is no perfect solution out the gate. That is one thing about Poverty to Progress. Media stories will say, This didn’t go right. Where is the right and wrong? We are working toward something. We are local. We are home growing this if you will. We can go back and reset. We can reevaluate.</p> <p>That’s what we do with this process, with the Poverty to Progress. We merged with another group that was doing similar work from the regulation/policy side. It wasn’t about who started first. But they were a regional focus. We were Lynchburg-centric. We were really focused on Lynchburg. Once it became that they were pretty primarily working with Lynchburg residents and policy/regulation, another locality started looking at its own county to see what they could do for themselves because they were rural and we were city. We have merged the groups now, created a collaborative leadership team that is getting ready to meet. She has become a citizen volunteer now. I tell her if I leave, if other council members leave, that doesn’t mean the work should stop. How do you build that group of people, that process, whoever is in the seat, this work will still be a focus because it is part of our economic development, our eco-environment. We have to have successful families and individuals. We can’t leave a block or two- Our multi-million dollar development downtown, and you go three blocks over, and the average income is less than $20,000. I am throwing out a number. It’s just not good for the whole of the city.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are close to the economic dividing line. Working with the churches on Court St is the dividing line. They are aware of that. There is a lot of stuff in there, a lot of information that represents very effective leadership. It’s effective. It gets traction. You have developed a system, so it’s not personality-centric. So many times, somebody builds a system around their personality. When they go, it crumbles. There is a lot of wisdom in that. There is a master plan for the city of Lynchburg. There are phases of that. As we moved in here August a year ago, streets were being paved.</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> We still have work going on.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Even in that time, there has been remarkable progress. A bunch of unused buildings are now loft apartments. We have millennials and businesspeople and ordinary citizens and retired people moving downtown. We have a lot of restaurants in walking distance.</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> We do. I wish I could say it was during my era of leadership. Previous councils and administrations built a plan and created that vision out in about 2001 or so. With that adoption came the development of downtown. Downtown was a ghost town. They decided to do something. A few developers were early pioneers. They came in, bought a building, and moved in. A few here and there. Council came on board with developing the master plan. What you are seeing today is the results of that plan and administrative teams sticking to that plan, making right decisions along the way, whether it was code enforcement or infrastructure decisions on staffing and how to work with new developers coming into town. We have approximately about 800 new residents downtown living in the lofts. With that, we put people into an area wherever it is, it is going to bring commercial development and businesses. Folks who live down there have needs. They want different opportunities. I was reading an email today from our Downtown Lynchburg Association. They are energetic and creating vibes of putting in pocket parks. When you go to the larger cities, you may be able to eat downtown at a little park for lunch with benches. People are really taking hold of what has happened and saying, “We can do this. We can take this public space and turn it into a park.”</p> <p>With the development of business is coming our arts community. While we have new hotels downtown that have been renovated from hotels of the ‘50s that went through transition and became housing and its own Section 8 housing, or housing for college students, developers came in and renovated wonderfully older hotels so that creates new business, new folks staying. Also, our arts academy has been renovated. It will open in December. Historically for the city that is important because originally when the academy was in its heyday, persons of color could not go in, or they had to go through the separate entrance with the separate ticket taker, sit way up in the top. December will be the first show where we have all of our community able to walk through the front doors of the newly renovated academy downtown.</p> <p>We are excited about our new residents, lofters living downtown. The businesses that come behind it. We have global businesses that have our corporate headquarters here. They have understood the investment of staying here with us and putting their main offices downtown. We have an entire city that is developing. For a city of our size, we have six colleges or universities that are located within our city. We embrace Sweet Briar, which is a college that is in another locality about 15 minutes away. With so much education, with global companies and various industries that are here with us, we know we have all the tools to make Lynchburg an even greater city in our future.</p> <p>How does it all connect? How does it all interact and engage? How do our citizens become beneficiaries of all of that great building and development? You have to sit down with key leaders, education leaders, faith leaders. We meet with college presidents. We have a great volunteer base of college students and rec departments. How do we all make it work to create that great city that people benefit from? That’s that future vision: it’s not just in my head, but someone that everyone embraces in order to put it in their future plan.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I work with business leaders as well as education and some government. We fail to think about the business model for what we’re doing. We think we don’t have a business model in government or nonprofit or church when we really do. We tend to gravitate toward the bad name businesses as greed. We are looking at the triple bottom line businesses who are social entrepreneurs who are creating goodwill for everyone. I see that you have that mindset.</p> <p>As a leader, from where you sit, I want to piggyback on what you said in passing about you wish you could claim that progress. This is the relay in the Olympics. The first runner hands off the baton. This is your leg. You can get behind or ahead. You’re part of this journey. You’ve been handed a really good baton and are in the lead. We are also not competing against other cities. We are shining our own light. There is nothing that compares to Lynchburg. We are our own shining light. Some people get in this “I have to be as good as them” mindset, or they want to copy others. When you said there wasn’t a model, that’s good because no model would fit here. There is unique challenges. One is called Hill City.</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> And there is a reason. How do you utilize that? It’s great exercise. We have super steep hills for anyone who’d like to come. We have a great quality of life. It’s affordable to live here. Young families can start buying a home here. They are not using all of their discretionary income on housing. We have those opportunities, walking by the James River or going kayaking or keeping our faces sunned with great parks and trails here. When people decide to move here and they bring with them new ideas and new insights from their experiences, new directors and folks who take key positions, spreading information and communication about how people can become involved, how they can help with projects downtown or in other parts of our city. Just the energy of working with businesses. When businesses locate, what I hear repeatedly over and over is they want their employees to have a great quality of life. The education system matters. The quality of life of the community, which are all of that, the parks and trails and entertainment and green spaces. All of that matters. When you keep it focused, for me, this hand-off of the baton is about the economic environment, how we integrate our neighborhoods and our folks who are living under the poverty threshold. How do we integrate them into that economic opportunity? How do we shift folks’ language and thinking about their everyday spending habits and wanting to spend more or wanting to be part of home ownership? What does all of this mean? That is why I think it’s important for us to work together, to create an education opportunity as well as folks becoming involved. You have to try to get people to cast the vision for themselves. Businesses need a work force. We have to make sure our citizens are trained with the credentials and skills that entry level jobs are requiring these days. Businesses can pick up and go anywhere with a good environment. Other people have rivers. Other people have parks. What makes us unique is that work force system that we create. Giving people the soft skills, the training and credentials in the industry sectors that are important to Lynchburg and are thriving here, matching them with jobs. We want people to have jobs and careers that pay them well in order for them to be contributors of the tax base, of our residences and neighborhoods through home ownership, and just a part of that American dream. It’s not a dream. It can be reality. It is reality. We feel like with all of this work, we are creating pathways for people.</p> <p>A great wise person once said in a class that I took, I can’t take credit for this, but we talk about the prison pipelines. When you are in a pipe, it’s hard to get out. You have one end or the other. The pipe is solid. If you create pathways for people, they are able to get on or off. They are able to take a detour. There is a way on. That is why in meetings we have, for me personally, I always talk about creating career pathways and life pathways, different options. The way you and I enter that highway of life may not be the same in our careers, but if you at least shine the light on this as the direction, how you get there is several ways. It will be a great benefit to you as an individual or to your family or children.</p> <p>Telling our story. Cities and localities don’t tell their stories well about what their city looks like. We do marketing and branding campaigns. What does it mean to be a Lynchburger? How do you feel when you walk down Main Street and you can talk to your neighbor or someone else while you are running up Monument Terrace? It’s an engagement of being in a city of 80,000. We are just big enough, but just small enough. I can pick up the phone and call our faith leaders. I can call our business CEOs and presidents. We can have Town &amp; Gown meetings and invite them to the table. They are talking to us about their challenges, and we are able to lay our challenges and successes out there, too. Each layer of leadership in this city, everyone is willing to sit down at the table.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a key component. I don’t see the leaders who make it about them. It’s about us. It’s about the community. It’s about the impact we have on humanity. Even the churches who are very different, I told you a story before we started about four unlikely churches working together, building some platforms for people to connect. Anything we haven’t touched on? I think we have covered a lot of stuff.</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> We have. Hopefully I haven’t bored you too much.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I live here. You just gave away the secret of how good Lynchburg is. We have a lot of history here. I live across the street from the site of the Battle of Lynchburg. There is the Sandusky house. One of Thomas Jefferson’s homes is here. We have Monument Terrace. Those steps are the equivalent of eight floors.</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> They are. Everybody uses it often every day every week. But also, it means a lot to our veteran community. We have a strong veteran community here. I served in the Navy for a couple years. I enjoyed my time there, which taught me discipline and collaboration. That is where I started my public relations work. It has continued from my early years as a young adult. Our veteran community here has met at the foot of Monument Terrace every Friday for over 350 weeks or so. It has been incredible. I think the last time I was there was at 52 weeks, several weeks had gone by. But it was at the start of the war. They were at war. To show support of the troops, to show that home was still praying for you and still connecting and still caring about you, they began to meet every Friday at 12 until 1. If you go out there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> They’re there now.</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> They were there. They group up at the end right at 1. It’s one hour. That community at the base of Monument Terrace, which is a recognition of all the previous wars and the persons who lost their lives, that type of every Friday for years just meeting to support and show respect is this community. They come from the other localities. It’s not just Lynchburg resident folks. It is veterans from Korea and Vietnam and folks who come home and know. That is the community that- We reference the faith leaders, but we also have a strong veteran community. We are not located near an active duty base like Norfolk or the Pentagon or the Virginia. But we have a lot of veterans that just support several efforts. They come together and create that idea that we all care. We all collaborate. We all work together. That is an example. I just wanted to share with folks the commitment that individuals and organizations in our community have. We respect that and the work they do. Everyone has something to contribute.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is an anchor when you say that we respect.</p> <p>As we are wrapping up this really good interview, any particular thought, challenge, or tip that you would like to leave with leaders? We mostly have nonprofit leaders, but we have all kinds of people who listen and read.</p> <p><strong>Treney:</strong> Be open to new experiences. Be open to working with new people. Everyone has a voice or background or experience or story that you can either glean something from or contribute toward the work you do. You may be able to share your story or narrative with other people. When we do that and we open ourselves for learning and connecting with others, or the respect factor or listening, you will see great things happen. You really will.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Very good words. Treney Tweedy, thank you so much for sharing.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Collaboration to Restore a Historic Performance Venue in Lynchburg, VA</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/collaboration-to-restore-a-historic-performance-venue-in-lynchburg-va</link>
      <description>Geoffrey Kershner is the Executive Director at the Academy Center of the Arts (Lynchburg, VA) and the founder of the Endstation Theatre Company in residence at Randolph College. He is the winner of the 2015 Vice Mayor’s Young Adult Award of Excellence (City of Lynchburg) and was named a 2016 “Top 20 under 40” by Lynchburg Business Magazine. Under his leadership, Endstation was the winner of the 2012 Rising Star Award (Virginians for the Arts), the 2014 Cultural Organization Award (James River Council for the Arts and Humanities), and the 2014 Good Works Award (Downtown Lynchburg Association).
 In his time at the Academy Center of the Arts, the organization increased need based scholarships for arts programming by 124%, increased the overall operating budget by 110%, and completed a capital campaign for a 30 million dollar historic theatre restoration project (the theatre is scheduled open this December). Geoffrey has served on Virginia Commission for the Arts (Area 2, state wide) grant review panels, was a member of the National Arts Strategies’ 2014-2015 Chief Executive Cohort, and completed the Arts and Culture Strategy course through the University of Pennsylvania and National Arts Strategies in 2017. He served as a faculty member at Florida State University, Daytona State College, and Lynchburg College. He earned his BFA from the University of the Arts in Philadelphia, PA and his MFA from Florida State University.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2018 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7bae9b52-b329-11eb-9f0f-2b31dd688594/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Story of Restoring the Historic Academy Center of the Arts with Geoff Kershner</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Geoffrey Kershner is the Executive Director at the Academy Center of the Arts (Lynchburg, VA) and the founder of the Endstation Theatre Company in residence at Randolph College. He is the winner of the 2015 Vice Mayor’s Young Adult Award of Excellence (City of Lynchburg) and was named a 2016 “Top 20 under 40” by Lynchburg Business Magazine. Under his leadership, Endstation was the winner of the 2012 Rising Star Award (Virginians for the Arts), the 2014 Cultural Organization Award (James River Council for the Arts and Humanities), and the 2014 Good Works Award (Downtown Lynchburg Association).
 In his time at the Academy Center of the Arts, the organization increased need based scholarships for arts programming by 124%, increased the overall operating budget by 110%, and completed a capital campaign for a 30 million dollar historic theatre restoration project (the theatre is scheduled open this December). Geoffrey has served on Virginia Commission for the Arts (Area 2, state wide) grant review panels, was a member of the National Arts Strategies’ 2014-2015 Chief Executive Cohort, and completed the Arts and Culture Strategy course through the University of Pennsylvania and National Arts Strategies in 2017. He served as a faculty member at Florida State University, Daytona State College, and Lynchburg College. He earned his BFA from the University of the Arts in Philadelphia, PA and his MFA from Florida State University.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Geoffrey Kershne</strong>r is the Executive Director at the Academy Center of the Arts (Lynchburg, VA) and the founder of the Endstation Theatre Company in residence at Randolph College. He is the winner of the 2015 Vice Mayor’s Young Adult Award of Excellence (City of Lynchburg) and was named a 2016 “Top 20 under 40” by Lynchburg Business Magazine. Under his leadership, Endstation was the winner of the 2012 Rising Star Award (Virginians for the Arts), the 2014 Cultural Organization Award (James River Council for the Arts and Humanities), and the 2014 Good Works Award (Downtown Lynchburg Association).<a href="https://academycenter.org/"></a></p> <p>In his time at the Academy Center of the Arts, the organization increased need based scholarships for arts programming by 124%, increased the overall operating budget by 110%, and completed a capital campaign for a 30 million dollar historic theatre restoration project (the theatre is scheduled open this December). Geoffrey has served on Virginia Commission for the Arts (Area 2, state wide) grant review panels, was a member of the National Arts Strategies’ 2014-2015 Chief Executive Cohort, and completed the Arts and Culture Strategy course through the University of Pennsylvania and National Arts Strategies in 2017. He served as a faculty member at Florida State University, Daytona State College, and Lynchburg College. He earned his BFA from the University of the Arts in Philadelphia, PA and his MFA from Florida State University.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3654</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[8441d66338914127b70741fd70382de7]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3206363295.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>Getting the Grant Awards You Deserve with Beverly Burgess, the Grant Guru</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/getting-the-grant-awards-you-deserve-with-beverly-burgess-the-grant-guru</link>
      <description>Beverly D. Burgess – Grant Writer, Grant Teacher, and “The Grant Guru”
 Former State of Florida Executive Administrator, Department of Labor, Employment, and Training, State of Florida Grant Writer and Federal Grant Writer, Bureau of Apprenticeship
 Former State of Florida Partnerships with NASA, Lockheed, Martin Marietta, Bureau of Apprenticeship, State of Florida CO-Programs Developer, Bureau of Apprenticeship, State of Florida Students Recording Certification Specialist, Bureau of Apprenticeship
 Beverly D. Burgess brings over forty-two years to the table, in the grant writing arena. She worked for the State of Florida, Department of Labor, Employment, and Training, Bureau of Apprenticeship Division, for over twelve years. 
 Ms Burgess also trained as an expert corporate grant writer by the State of Florida, Department of Labor, Employment, and Training, Bureau of Apprenticeship, she has built relationships and partnerships with many world’s corporate CEO’s their companies.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7bc86046-b329-11eb-9f0f-3fddbca86bd4/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Getting Your Organization Grant Worthy</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Beverly D. Burgess – Grant Writer, Grant Teacher, and “The Grant Guru”
 Former State of Florida Executive Administrator, Department of Labor, Employment, and Training, State of Florida Grant Writer and Federal Grant Writer, Bureau of Apprenticeship
 Former State of Florida Partnerships with NASA, Lockheed, Martin Marietta, Bureau of Apprenticeship, State of Florida CO-Programs Developer, Bureau of Apprenticeship, State of Florida Students Recording Certification Specialist, Bureau of Apprenticeship
 Beverly D. Burgess brings over forty-two years to the table, in the grant writing arena. She worked for the State of Florida, Department of Labor, Employment, and Training, Bureau of Apprenticeship Division, for over twelve years. 
 Ms Burgess also trained as an expert corporate grant writer by the State of Florida, Department of Labor, Employment, and Training, Bureau of Apprenticeship, she has built relationships and partnerships with many world’s corporate CEO’s their companies.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Beverly D. Burgess</strong> – Grant Writer, Grant Teacher, and “The Grant Guru”</p> <p>Former State of Florida Executive Administrator, Department of Labor, Employment, and Training, State of Florida Grant Writer and Federal Grant Writer, Bureau of Apprenticeship</p> <p>Former State of Florida Partnerships with NASA, Lockheed, Martin Marietta, Bureau of Apprenticeship, State of Florida CO-Programs Developer, Bureau of Apprenticeship, State of Florida Students Recording Certification Specialist, Bureau of Apprenticeship</p> <p>Beverly D. Burgess brings over forty-two years to the table, in the grant writing arena. She worked for the State of Florida, Department of Labor, Employment, and Training, Bureau of Apprenticeship Division, for over twelve years. </p> <p>Ms Burgess also trained as an expert corporate grant writer by the State of Florida, Department of Labor, Employment, and Training, Bureau of Apprenticeship, she has built relationships and partnerships with many world’s corporate CEO’s their companies.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3660</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[310e281625434cc2904d6deb8b3a1b48]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5097361246.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>Getting and Keeping High Level Sponsors with Andrew Felix</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/getting-and-keeping-high-level-sponsors-with-andrew-felix</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:55:04 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7bec5d3e-b329-11eb-9f0f-df9c15baa40f/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Creating the Relationship Around Value</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3650</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[6af8cc79d48144a18020aa391cd918bc]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3669920218.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>Nonprofits Need to Make a Profit, Too with Steve Breitman</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofits-need-to-make-a-profit-too-with-steve-breitman</link>
      <description>Successful nonprofits understand that in order to create a stable, sustainable organization capable of filling its missions for years to come, that it must earn a profit.  Nonprofits are businesses just like for profits.  One major difference is that a portion of a nonprofits profits are reinvested into achieving its mission.  That mission is about making the world a better place.  Successful nonprofits are nimble and think entrepreneurially.
 Steve Breitman is a CFO with a CEO perspective.  His hands-on work in operations sets him apart from traditional accountants.  He understands how business “really” works.  Steve can tell you not just what the bottom line is, but why and show you how to use the information to grow your business.
 Steve trained as a CPA and has 28+ years of accounting, financial and operational management experience.  He graduated from the University of Texas at Austin, Magna Cum Laude, with a BBA in Accounting.  Steve’s career path led him to work in public accounting and to hold a variety of management positions including CFO, Regional Controller, Corporate Director of Management Reporting, Executive Director and Regional Manager.  He had management responsibility for 6 business sites with 175 employees and $20 million in revenue as well as reporting responsibility for 25 business sites with $120 million in revenue.
 Steve gives back to the community by volunteering his time.  In the recent past he served as a Board Member of the Better Business Bureau and was on the Finance Committee of the Better Business Bureau Foundation.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7c0ae538-b329-11eb-9f0f-dbcedc55940a/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Focusing on the Key Financial Indicators for Success</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Successful nonprofits understand that in order to create a stable, sustainable organization capable of filling its missions for years to come, that it must earn a profit.  Nonprofits are businesses just like for profits.  One major difference is that a portion of a nonprofits profits are reinvested into achieving its mission.  That mission is about making the world a better place.  Successful nonprofits are nimble and think entrepreneurially.
 Steve Breitman is a CFO with a CEO perspective.  His hands-on work in operations sets him apart from traditional accountants.  He understands how business “really” works.  Steve can tell you not just what the bottom line is, but why and show you how to use the information to grow your business.
 Steve trained as a CPA and has 28+ years of accounting, financial and operational management experience.  He graduated from the University of Texas at Austin, Magna Cum Laude, with a BBA in Accounting.  Steve’s career path led him to work in public accounting and to hold a variety of management positions including CFO, Regional Controller, Corporate Director of Management Reporting, Executive Director and Regional Manager.  He had management responsibility for 6 business sites with 175 employees and $20 million in revenue as well as reporting responsibility for 25 business sites with $120 million in revenue.
 Steve gives back to the community by volunteering his time.  In the recent past he served as a Board Member of the Better Business Bureau and was on the Finance Committee of the Better Business Bureau Foundation.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Successful nonprofits understand that in order to create a stable, sustainable organization capable of filling its missions for years to come, that it must earn a profit.  Nonprofits are businesses just like for profits.  One major difference is that a portion of a nonprofits profits are reinvested into achieving its mission.  That mission is about making the world a better place.  Successful nonprofits are nimble and think entrepreneurially.</p> <p><strong>Steve Breitman</strong> is a CFO with a CEO perspective.  His hands-on work in operations sets him apart from traditional accountants.  He understands how business “really” works.  Steve can tell you not just what the bottom line is, but why and show you how to use the information to grow your business.</p> <p>Steve trained as a CPA and has 28+ years of accounting, financial and operational management experience.  He graduated from the University of Texas at Austin, Magna Cum Laude, with a BBA in Accounting.  Steve’s career path led him to work in public accounting and to hold a variety of management positions including CFO, Regional Controller, Corporate Director of Management Reporting, Executive Director and Regional Manager.  He had management responsibility for 6 business sites with 175 employees and $20 million in revenue as well as reporting responsibility for 25 business sites with $120 million in revenue.</p> <p>Steve gives back to the community by volunteering his time.  In the recent past he served as a Board <a href="http://www.mindfulbusinessinc.com/"></a>Member of the Better Business Bureau and was on the Finance Committee of the Better Business Bureau Foundation.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3172</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[b0cd84d6f9b4400aadded3d63e50331f]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3428397787.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange Episode Reviews with Russ and Hugh</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-episode-reviews-with-russ-and-hugh</link>
      <description>The Nonprofit Exchange Episode Reviews with Russ and Hugh
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7c23cf9e-b329-11eb-9f0f-0302937bf766/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Look Back at the Key Learning Moments from the Past Months</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Nonprofit Exchange Episode Reviews with Russ and Hugh
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>The Nonprofit Exchange Episode Reviews with Russ and Hugh</strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3700</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[c15b0b34384a4a9ab31c7928ff658742]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN1232397950.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>Stepping On and Off the Field of Hope and Transformation with Wendy Adams</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/stepping-on-and-off-the-field-of-hope-and-transformation-with-wendy-adams</link>
      <description>Stepping On and Off the Field of Hope and Transformation with Wendy Adams
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings to The Nonprofit Exchange listeners. We talk about the important themes that we as leaders step up to the plate as influencers in our arena as community leaders, as religious leaders, as leaders in organizations, no matter where we are. We do influence other people in the organization. My guest today is actually a neighbor in Lynchburg. Her name is Wendy Adams. Wendy, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Wendy Adams: Hugh, I appreciate the opportunity, especially coming off a holiday weekend, to share.
 Hugh: Oh yes. Getting back to work on the Tuesday after Labor Day. It seems like a Monday. Wendy, you are in the sports area, but you really are in the storytelling sweet spot. I am not going to try to describe what you do, but I am going to ask you to tell a snapshot of who this mysterious person called Wendy Adams is. What is it that you’re doing right now? Give us who you are and what you’re doing. I also want to know why you’re doing this.
 Wendy: Great questions, Hugh. Again, I appreciate the opportunity to share. I am in the industry of storytelling. My official title is Chief Relationship Officer. I am reminded constantly by my family that I thought I was a chief for a really long time, and now I actually have the title. Really what that comes down to is I work with Sports Outreach. We are a ministry of 30 years. November will be our 30thbirthday. We have used sports as the common language. We serve in four other countries outside the United States, and we don’t all speak the same language, but we all know what to do with a ball or how to perform on a field or on a chess board. Really what it comes down to is if we can open up conversation, then we can be able to influence. We can be an influence, and we can share where we are getting our influence from. As a Christian organization, Sports Outreach has the ability to meet both practical and spiritual needs.
 My journey really began with a bout of disobedience. When I get asked, “How did you get to where you are, Wendy?” it’s not a mystery. I am an open book. I was walking one particular path that I was clear the Lord had put me on. In 2007, He said, “I have something different for you. I want you to use those skills, those abilities in a different way.” I quickly answered, “Thanks for sharing. I love what I’m doing. I’m going to keep going.” As 2009, working as a business owner in the area of special events in Tampa, Florida at that time, things came to a screeching halt. Just as He said, He had something different. I decided to take the long route. It not only brought me to a geographical location, but He literally took the skillset of being an influencer and being a connector of people, and He turned it in a way very different, very meaningful, but not what I saw coming. That brought me into the area of what we would officially call fundraising. What it really is is relationship-building: connecting those who have a need with those who have been called to meet that need and having them meet through the story. One telling, the other listening, and how they can connect. That is really what I do: building the bridge in that. In this case, we use the bridge of sports.
 Hugh: As you probably know, I use team analogies with the orchestra, but you could use team analogies with any sports team. What we do together has a lot more profound impact if we function together as an ensemble, a musical ensemble, a drama ensemble. My sport is NASCAR. Wouldn’t have guessed that, I’m sure.
 Wendy: Not at all.
 Hugh: These guys jump over the wall. In 14.2 seconds, every tenth of a second is critical, they put in four new tires, fill the tank, clean the windshield, and they are back over the wall. They have to do it with utmost precision. They rehearse that. There is lots of different cultures of team performance. I guess you know I served mega-churches as 40 years as music director. Did you know that?
 Wendy: I did.
 Hugh: My church in Atlanta had something like 85 basketball teams and 100 softball teams. We had quite an extensive sports ministry. I understand a little bit about what you do. That wasn’t my area. How do we come together and build those really important relationships? But I also understand you have hit on a couple critical points in the first couple of minutes of this interview. Creating relationships, telling a story, and connecting people with the value of impact. You didn’t say it that way, but I heard it that way.
 Let’s unpack these. Your title is not a typical title. What is your title?
 Wendy: Chief Relationship Officer.
 Hugh: You’re under that umbrella that many call development.
 Wendy: Correct.
 Hugh: Which is a funny word.
 Wendy: It is. What are we developing?
 Hugh: Yeah. I have worked with nonprofits of all kinds for 31 years. I am changing that position to be Funding Strategist. It’s how we create all the strategies and relationships that are the underlying factor. The world I live in, underneath leadership, is relationships. Underneath funding is relationship. Underneath communication is relationship. You are probably one of the most important people in this organization as far as putting all this together.
 Start out with this. Talk about the storytelling part for a minute. How did you get good at telling stories? What is so important about how you put it together and how you deliver it?
 Wendy: I have to say the first piece to that is telling the story is actually being a good listener, which I’ll be honest, is not my natural default. Listening is an active activity, an opportunity. When I sit across the table from one who has either given to the organization or wants to know more about the organization, I really have to do less talking and more listening to be able to hear where they are. That is how you become a good storyteller is because you have to make sure you are telling the right story, what they are actually asking. If I am doing all the talking, that’s not going to happen. That’s really key in what I do. It’s something I have to be intentional in, which goes back when we talk about building relationships. It’s very intentional, not by happenstance.
 Hugh: You are getting these highlights that are so on target. I know so many people in charity work – I substitute different words. We are not in a for-profit business; we are in a for-purpose business. I hate the word “nonprofit” because it makes us think in scarcity terms.
 Wendy: And you’re in abundance.
 Hugh: Yes! It’s there. God has given us abundance, and we turn away from it instead of accepting it. There is a lot of good things we can use that for.
 What you triggered with that last thing you said, a lot of people have the script, and they give the same script to every single person without regard to what you just said. What is that person looking to do? What difference do they want to make? What are their interests? As you approach people, what are some of the things that you do to get to know that person?
 Wendy: I start with asking a lot of the same questions you have asked me. Who are you? What has brought you to the place for us to sit down and have this conversation? Tell me about your family, your background, your passions. Then you sit back and listen. Usually, in that first meeting and interaction, you may very scarcely actually speak about the organization you are serving because the whole point is to recognize where they are and how they connect with us. That is going to take time. Like any other relationship, it’s going to take time to understand those points and have them be comfortable enough to share. That first meeting is really just getting to know them, and it’s asking those probing questions. A lot of what we don’t do in the traditional networking world. I really enjoy, and it feeds me because I really get to learn. I get to interact and learn more about people. I say most often I love people. I don’t always like people. I am not always liked. But I love the interaction of people. We talk about people-watching. I love to people-listen, get to know them more, and see how we do inter-connect. I couldn’t do what I do all by myself, no matter how much I feel like I have a skillset for it. It takes all of us. To be put in a setting where I get to fill myself up with learning more about others, how they connect, how they click, what they are passionate about, really pushes me to be a better version of myself.
 Hugh: Whoa. You keep rolling out these sound bites. You can’t do it by yourself. Build relationship. It’s not about the organization; it’s about them. Here’s one that just zinged past and I am bringing it back. You said in the first meeting. It’s not one and done. Talk about that, would you?
 Wendy: Oh no. Hugh, how many times have you and I crossed paths and spent time? It’s not one and done. I don’t go into it thinking one and done. This is for longevity. They’re looking to leave legacy. They want to make sure that beyond themselves, who they are is left behind and others will know. That takes time. That’s not going to happen in one interaction. When I think of any of the relationships, we can all think back to high school. Maybe it was a great experience, maybe it wasn’t. When you think about the opportunities to engage with the people you knew at that point in time, how long did it take to establish a relationship that you could still engage with that person today? We are not high school students anymore, well past that. You cannot think about it as a one and done. You go into it knowing you want more. You go into it recognizing the next time we cross paths, I will be looking forward to learning what’s happened since that time to where we are. It’s that expectation that comes across in conversations that I think draws people in to say, “I want to tell you more.”
 Hugh: The other one you talked about is before you can be a good storyteller, you have to be a good listener. How am I doing on that listening so far?
 Wendy: You’re doing great. You actually do a fantastic job with that. You know why I know that, Hugh? When we have conversations, the next time we engage, there is usually some sound bite you bring back to the table from our last engagement. That is active listening, to hold onto those nuggets.
 Hugh: Active listening. It’s active, empathetic listening. It’s caring about the person. There is a quote I can’t chase down the origin of, “Listening is so close to loving you can hardly tell the difference.” Isn’t that rich? We need more love. We have people fighting over things. We need more love.
 We are in a place where charities in this world are more important than ever before in history. We are doing a lot more important stuff. It’s important for us as professionals in that space to continue working on yourself. You said that somewhere along the way. You’re always working on yourself. Jim Rohn, the motivational speaker who used to speak a lot in front of multi-level companies, but he did a lot of generic presentations, was known to say just about every time, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.”
 Wendy: It’s a great point.
 Hugh: You and I knew each other from the Lynchburg Business Alliance. I hear you present at the first Friday gathering, and Lynchburg Business Alliance is a great organization. It’s like a chamber of commerce on steroids.
 Wendy: Great analogy.
 Hugh: You step out. I talk, and I feel stupid. You step up, and it’s brilliant. Let’s talk about you’re making a presentation. I see people making presentations that don’t make eye contact, they don’t work on their language, they don’t face the person and look engaged, and they talk all the time and don’t listen. What I have noticed about you is A) you are a top notch presenter. You are a speaker, and you have lots of poise. But you have lots of skill. Did you get coaching on presentation skills? How did you get where you are with your delivery? Your articulation is wonderful. Your physical presence, your demeanor, you’re there, you’re engaged with people. Your pacing is very good. It’s so easy to follow. Those aren’t skills you normally drop in and go with. Did you have some learning to get where you are now?
 Wendy: I don’t hear myself that way. It’s great to know that’s what’s coming across. It goes back to that intentionality. No formal training. I’ll be very honest with you. I can’t wait to share this recording with my mother. In fourth grade, the big thing was, “She is a great student, Mrs. Adams, if we could just get her to stop talking.” So now I’m using the power for good.
 I have just been talking for a very long time. I do like to be heard. We do. We as humans do like to be heard. What makes it pleasant for someone to listen? A big part of it is recognizing your audience. If there is a time frame, we have 30 seconds. 30 seconds is 30 seconds. What can I do in that 30 seconds to convey a message that will be pleasing and attractive to my audience?
 Back to that intentionality and thinking it through. We are talking to people at 8:15 in the morning. Have they all had their coffee? What is going to draw them in and engage them for that 30 seconds and get that message across? Leaving them wanting a little bit more. When that time comes for further dialogue, we have something to springboard off of.
 Clarity in our speech. People need to be able to understand. If they can’t understand, they’re checked out. We’re busy. There is so much coming past us on a moment by moment basis that if you bog them down with so much, and all these words, and they can’t figure out what you’re trying to say, what you’re trying to convey, what you want them to hear, they’re done. We’re busy. It’s taking those things. I hone in on everything I do to be intentional. Whether that’s in my personal or professional life because time is precious. It is the most precious commodity we have. Can’t get more of it. So let’s use it to the fullest. Those are the things that roll through my mind as we pass that circle and I see my time coming, “How can I use this most precious commodity with these people who have given me their time?”
 Hugh: That would be generally true of anybody you are speaking to on behalf of the organization, I guess.
 Wendy: Most definitely. There is no doubt. There is so much. We are one of how many organizations. We know that it used to be on average that those that give to a nonprofit who want to do more and beyond themselves, they were having at least seven to ten opportunities coming through to them on a weekly basis. That number has exponentially grown at this point in time. As we get toward the end of the year, that steps up even further because of those who want to jump into the game and get their message out there. Going back to that active listening. Do I know this person well enough that I can speak into what speaks to them? If I haven’t had that opportunity yet, let me at least know that I am engaging and not wasting their time. If there is something that speaks there, they come back and say, “I do want to know more.” So yes, in every conversation, that is the whole point I walk in with.
 Hugh: That is such a key point. You keep hitting all the high spots. Let’s unpack that one. You said you want to leave them wanting to know more. I teach at a business growth conference that happens in the Tampa Bay area where you are from. I have been presenting at 12 years. There are meal tables, and they get to sit with faculty and present a pitch. I have been at 900 of those meal tables over the last 12 years. 4-8 people at a time giving their pitch. Universally, there is too much data. That is the hardest thing to cure. We are so enthusiastic, and we want people to be as enthusiastic as we are. There is so much to know. How do you get to what is the essential message you want to give people? How do you stage it so you get their interest? They are not looking for places to put their money typically. They are giving you the time because you have the relationship. How do you go through this sorting process of coming up with what the essential message is for the first and second time?
 Wendy: What it comes down to is learning as much as I can, if it’s an individual, about the individual. Most cases, someone is being introduced to me through someone else. How much can that person who is doing the introduction tell me about who I am going to be sharing with and having that opportunity to sit down and have a meal with? Going in with that knowledge.
 Again, I have to be super intentional about this because I am a talker. My natural inclination is to tell you everything. I am excited. But I walk in there recognizing that I will never be able to tell you all of it, and I need you to experience it. The best way for you to experience it is when you come back to me and want to ask questions and know more. I have to leave you that cliffhanger. It’s like writing that drama series. You want them to come back next week. How do I give you just enough of the information, being respectful of your time, knowing what I know about you, but leaving enough of a question mark, not I don’t know what you talked about, but I want to know more. It is setting the time before any meeting, any interaction to think through and putting that together. It is orchestrated to a point, and letting them take the lead in bringing that about.
 Hugh: How did you get here? You said your teacher said you talked a lot. How did you get from where that was to where you are today?
 Wendy: Lots of trial and error. It wasn’t something that was overnight. It was recognizing that work does not have to be and is not intended to be a four-letter word. It is something you can actually enjoy and have passion about. Your passion and your career can come into a marriage that is harmonious. That does not mean that we live in a happily ever after, and you wake up every Monday morning and say, “I just can’t wait to.” That doesn’t mean that’s the case, but it does mean there is a recognition, there is a purpose behind what I am doing. I am able to live in that purpose and perform in that purpose and engage in that purpose on a daily basis. That is what brings me the joy. Happiness is not the end goal. That’s circumstantial. Circumstances don’t always bring about the outcome that I want. Happy is not where I want to reside; joy is where I need to reside.
 It’s been through a process. The business I had for almost 12 years in Tampa Bay, I did well at a point in time. I realized one of my dreams, which was to manage a major sporting event, which was the Super Bowl in 2009. At the end of that very year, my highest high, I experienced my lowest low, when the economy took such a tank that it took my small business and pushed me into bankruptcy. Something that was one of the most difficult things in my life to walk through. This is who I had identified myself to be. My faith has really been the catapult to, through the highs and lows, keep me grounded as to not getting caught up in the day-to-day circumstances, but recognizing it is a journey.
 That is what took me from that fourth grader who just wouldn’t stop talking. It has been honed and manipulated on that potter’s wheel to a point where I recognize the strengths in it and the weaknesses and being intentional about honing both of those. Allowing the weaknesses to be decreased and those strengths to be increased. It’s in my power, but with my hands surrendered open. No secret. The secret is open to all of us to be able to do those very same things because that was the intention of our Creator for us. That is where I find most of my joy: knowing I Have laid myself in His hands. He is the one who is doing it; I get to experience the joy through it.
 Hugh: It is a true joy. There are a couple things there about perseverance. Getting a no. it’s hard not to take that personally. Keeping the faith when you get no’s. There is a process. I want to ask you about the steps and the process. But first, are you familiar with Napoleon Hill and his writing?
 Wendy:I am not.
 Hugh: Napoleon Hill met Andrew Carnegie. You know that name?
 Wendy: Yes.
 Hugh: Andrew Carnegie said, “If you work for me for 20 years, I will introduce you to the most successful people in America.” It was the 1930s, so they were all male and that competitive capitalist of Rockefellers and Wanamakers and Carnegie himself and Ford presidents. 500 people he interviewed. Came up with this law of success. A lot of it is what you just articulated. God has given us natural laws. We either work with them or not if you want to be successful. What you are presenting ought to be intuitive, but they are logical laws of how things work. The laws of nature, the laws of human relationships. When we don’t have a sensitivity to how those work, then we don’t get the results we think we should.
 What he distilled out of those, he wrote lots of documents, but what he distilled were four major pieces. All those people had definiteness of purpose. You talk about purpose. They were very clear on their purpose. They were also very clear they brought value to people in what they were doing. Think of Thomas Edison, the most prolific inventor he ever heard of. He was so intent on inventing things to help people. They also gathered in a group that he determined to be a mastermind group, and they helped each other out. There was this community of people they work with. The last one was this thing about intention. There was no admission of failure. He said every failure there is a seed of a future success. Failure in my language is a rehearsal for success. It is a learning opportunity. Those are very similar to what you said. Napoleon Hill wrote a lot of things. People mistakenly think it’s about greed and money when really it’s about creating this position that you can influence people to create value that brings everyone benefits. I didn’t know if you knew about those writings. They are often misplaced and miscued to be greed when really it’s about what you just said. The way I have read it over the last 30 years.
 Any response to that?
 Wendy: You hit two great points that are pivotal for me in my day to day. Professionally and personally. One is the idea and the concept of community. The fact of how important it is. We weren’t designed to be these lone soldiers. I know that our culture says, I don’t need, I can do all by myself, self-made, things of that nature. But we really are, not to just use terminology that has been thrown around, better together because that is how we were designed to be. I recognize whether I am talking about my core team I work with within our headquarter staff here in Lynchburg, whether I am talking about our staff that is all the way around the world, or our community of supporters. It is because of all of us working in harmony, community, having that unity, having that common purpose, keeping that common language in front of us that really makes us better. No matter how much I may be in the position of garnering funds down to this basic core of being a fundraiser, truly, if I don’t have intentional communication and unity with my operations staff, communications staff, finance, it’s not going to work. I am not going to be the best I can be, and they won’t either.
 Making sure, because that audience is just as important, thinking of my board. They are coming from different aspects. Those are volunteers. We think of board members and how much influence they have. They are volunteers, volunteering their time. One of the main things that you said that sparked with me that is an underlying current is keeping that community in the forefront of anything that we are doing.
 Hugh: But your board of directors is your mastermind group, if we would like them to be.
 Wendy: Yes.
 Hugh: How do you interface with the board?
 Wendy: I try to be as personal with them as I am with those who I sit shoulder to shoulder with within the office. Again, trying to get to know them, making no assumptions that because they have been a board member for 25 years, that they actually understand all of what is going on in the organization and the direction we are going in. it is so easy to get caught up in how we have done it. Sports Outreach is 30 years old. I started with them last June. This is the first time this organization has really been in a place of having formalized development, formalized fundraising, relationship cultivation. It’s been friend-raising to this point in time. Someone may know this snapshot about this organization, and may not realize they are part of an organization that is really reaching a much broader scope. That includes our board. It’s spending time and being intentional and picking up that phone, beyond an email, and saying, “I need 30 minutes of your time for me to tell you who the organization can best serve you. What are your passions beyond sitting at that board table?” We have a very active board, a very engaged board, but there are definitely those who are founding board members and who are a little stuck a couple years back, if not a decade or so back, to where the organization is, simply because someone hasn’t had that intentional conversation and allowed them to share where they are.
 Hugh: That never happens in any other board, you know.
 Wendy: I am glad to know we’re not alone.
 Hugh: I would say you are in really good company. It’s part of human nature. It’s people like you who inspire people to think out of the old box. Interfacing with the board is key for your position, isn’t it?
 Wendy: It is. If I don’t have board support or understanding, they are introducing me to, when we go back to how I get those initial meetings or who am I sitting and talking to, what are those relationships that need to be cultivated, my board is key in opening those doors. If I don’t know them well enough and in turn they don’t know me well enough, they are not going to open those doors up. They will continue to come and sit around the table. We will sign some documents twice a year and move on. If that’s not the case when you sit down and have that one on one conversation with a board member outside of the round table and say, “How is the organization speaking to you? Where do you see our strengths?” opening that door to say, “Where are areas we need work?” Again, people want to be heard. The relationships that are built there are crucial. Recognizing that, especially as one who is coming in brand new to not only a position, but for all intents and purposes, I wasn’t replacing anyone. We were building. I need those to come around me to help build us together. I have received a lot of appreciation for that approach. I would not be one to be listed as traditional. I am outside of the box. We talk about the elephant in the room because he’s not going away even if we don’t talk about him. That’s how we get up and over and on to that next level. It makes some uncomfortable. No doubt. But we don’t just leave it there. That's where the difference is. You can open up a can and let it fly. It goes back to that intentionality of needing to deal with something, so let’s do this together.
 Hugh: I’m pointing out to listeners that the elephant in the room was a “he.”
 Wendy: Yeah, I recognize that’s what I said.
 Hugh: I wasn’t going to let that slide by. It’s probably more true than not.
 There are boards that think when they have a person like you, they don’t have any work to do. What are the different components of your work? I’m thinking there is a teaching component, a team component, a prep component. What are some of the components that relate specifically with the board?
 Wendy: You hit on a lot of them. The number one is teaching. They don’t take anything for granted that they just know. There is that idea of we know that this needs to happen. Why does it not just in our organization, but in my previous organization as well. The area of cultivating relationships, we know is important, and it’s people give to people, not to organizations. If we know it’s important to be able to have that groundwork, why does it most times come across as an afterthought to put someone in that role? It’s not because of the dollars and cents that go along with the role that I have, truly and honestly, especially when you are working in the area of as you said, we don’t like to use the term analogy “nonprofit,” but we do recognize that those dollars are crucial. How they come in and how they are being used and the impact we are making and the responsibility that we have with those dollars. Where the rub usually comes in or what makes people uncomfortable is what someone in my role brings to the table to say that we have to do. A lot of that is we have to do this together. It isn’t you get to come in twice a year and speak through a couple of agenda points and move on. There is an expectation that we are going to engage together. We are going to sit down together and meet with us. You won’t give me a list of names and say go. You’re going to share with me relationships that you have established, and we will do that together to a certain point because without you. I am just another person on the other end of the phone. It is that education component that I feel is most crucial with a board, especially an established board.
 Then there is the thinking outside of the box. We will only get what we have always gotten if we always do what we have always done. We have to do it differently if we want different outcomes. You want to have a board that is established and not feel they are flighty and all over the place. There is that danger of becoming complacent unintentionally if you just let it lie. There is that pushing component. I don’t know what the best terminology for that is. We do have to stay on the cutting edge. We do have to continue to see what are our constituency saying to us? Listen through their giving or their non-giving. Or they literally are speaking to us. They are writing back on- are we listening, or are we continuing to communicate what we want and we have always done a newsletter every month so we will keep going. Maybe we need to do a quarterly. Maybe we need a new format. Maybe we need more pictures. Maybe it is too wordy. If these are the things they are saying.
 Those two components, just within my first year, are the things I have spent most of my time with the board in presenting and showing credence to. Listening to them and giving pushback. Thankfully I have to say I have a board who has accepted that really well, even when we don’t all agree. But they have given me the opportunity to share, to listen. I don’t have all of the answers. But I have been in this industry for a while. The big thing is I have been who I am for 43 years. I recognize that really spending time with those who are like-minded and they want to share, spending time listening to what they are sharing and acting upon it, has the greatest impact.
 Hugh: This listening goes all the way around. It’s not just your donors. It’s your board members as well. I experience you as very direct in asking for what you need. That’s one reason I see that board members don’t perform on any level because they haven’t been asked to do so. Let’s ask them to do it, but let’s give them the skills and the documents. They need a one-sheet, or they will talk from a slide deck or the verbiage to open the door for you to come if there is a high-net-worth donor who wants to talk to the person in your seat.
 There is also a factor of what psychologists call money shadow. People don’t feel comfortable talking about money so they actually repel it. I find a lot of people say, “I am going to give you a name. Would you connect with us?” I don’t want to talk about money. There is something negative in talking about money. Do you know what I’m talking about?
 Wendy: I do. I have heard it enough times from constituency, from our supporters who have said- Just last year, I was waiting to be asked. I needed someone to explain. I wanted someone to understand. Just waiting for the ask. We sit in conferences and hear these things and read blogs that say it, but I have actually experienced it. Waiting for the ask. To share that with a board member that this sphere that we have of they don’t want to be asked. It’s just the opposite.
 The other piece to it is the education of. It’s not going in haphazardly. We have a need, and we want you to meet the need here. Back to that intentional conversation. Where is their heart? What is their passion? We serve in a lot of different areas. Through this area of sports ministry, we are touching lives from child sponsorship to feeding programs to education to church planting. There is so much that outpours off the field we are serving that there is bound to be an area where we have to listen, and then you can make that presentation. Oh, they are selling a house. They are sending children off to college. Where are they? That will give you an opportunity to have an ask that is intentional. Again, they want that. I tell board members, and I tell other colleagues, and I have to remind myself of this: It is truly not an ask for dollars and cents – it is an invitation to make impact. That’s what it is. Everybody likes to be invited. Everybody likes to be invited. I want in on that party. That’s the way I walk into a conversation. If I feel like I’m coming after your wallet, then I don’t want to do that. Who wants that? We are going to clench that wallet or that purse so tightly because now you are trying to rob me. But if you are inviting me, I am ready to be a part of that. That is a mindset that has to be one that doesn’t just- cute little phrase to say. No I have to live that out. When I believe that, that’s why it is easy to go in and say, “Here’s an invitation, Mr. Walmart.”
 Hugh: Those are really good words. So many good sound bites in this. There is a front end story telling before you meet the donor. There is also a back end after they have donated. We fail miserably here telling them what has happened with their money, telling them the story. You come up on the anniversary. Then when you ask for another donation, it’s a whole different ball game. How do you navigate that?
 Wendy: The first thing after they have donated is make sure you don’t muddy the waters and you thank the supporter. We can’t mix all of these things together. There really is an opportunity to thank the donor for what they have done. Thank that supporter for how they have come alongside you, how they have deepened the relationship to accomplish that impact. They want to be appreciated. You want to be appreciated. I want to be appreciated. It’s built into our DNA. Making sure we don’t gloss over that with just a receipt letter saying we received these dollars, but actually saying thank you for the impact you have made. Thanking them. You’re right. If the next time they hear from us is the next time there is an invitation to give, and they don’t know what that last has actually done, I am quite convinced you will get another gift. It’s not going to be the gift that we could have gotten if we had actually shown, if they had become connected with the people on the other end of that gift and not just gotten stuck on the dollar and decimal.
 Those are the steps that come along the way is making sure they have that engagement piece and they know they can picture that coming across. Making it real to them. We have the opportunity within our organization to put our supporters on the field where they are serving and interact. That’s not for everyone. I recognize that. Whether it may be stage of life or financial component, just not a desire to travel internationally. But they still want to know. They still want to experience. That as a storyteller is a good portion of my job is making that as real for them through video, through photo, through my story from being on the ground myself. I just returned from El Salvador in July. I have been thoroughly excited, pulling my pictures together, throwing up on the slideshows as if I wanted to share with my family. This is what I was able to experience. Look at what we are doing. We collectively. Not Sports Outreach headquarters, Wendy Adams, chief relationship officer. What we are collectively doing and able to make impact and who we are touching. Families that are. Children that were getting drawn into gang violence and now have an option because there was no option before. That brings people to a point of wow, that’s happening? I am a part of that? Not only do I want to remain a part of that, but I also want to deepen that and share with others. All of a sudden, I have just extended my development team.
 Hugh: I am going to give you a chance to leave people with a parting thought. Before we do that, talk about the start from where you finished. What are some steps and a process to find, engage, present, secure the donation, and follow up? Can you give me some of the timeline steps in that timeline?
 Wendy: Yeah. I can try to do that in a concise manner here. Making sure that you’re comfortable, I am comfortable enough with my message, that I know who we are. Who am I? Who is Sports Outreach? What are we doing? What are we accomplishing? What is our mission so I can articulate that in a way that makes sense? When I have that opportunity to share, it’s being intentional with the time and with the person who I am with. Knowing about them, sharing that. That first meeting and getting to know them, make sure there is a follow-up. You immediately thank them for that time. That was the first gift they gave: the time to sit and listen and share. Following up with a thank-you there. We can’t out-thank. There is no over-thanking. You can’t. When it comes to a point of making that invitation to give, making sure that that is something that is connected to the supporter’s perspective, or established but you want them to go deeper. That is not something out of the clear blue just because the organization needs it.
 From that point, then we make sure we thank them for that gift. Again, going back to that thanking. Then taking those steps to make sure there is an intentionality of impact storytelling along the way. A blog comes through. They may not be an Internet person. That may not be the way. If they are like my mother, she will check every ten days. Print it off. Write a handwritten note, and throw it in that snail mail box so they can see this is the difference that we are making together. I can’t say thank you enough. Inviting them to share it with others. Don’t leave it out there as just well, they are going to do that. Invite them to do that. Remind them how important it is to get the word out that we celebrate this with others. At any opportunity to take them to another level and for each person, you have to have your notes because for each person, that next level is something different. Make sure we do have an intentional plan along the way of how we are going to continue to deepen our relationship.
 I know those are the steps that work. Honestly, if we think about it, and you said this before, those are the basics of human interaction. We could take the fundraising portion off the table. That is how we deepen the relationships one on one personally. Making sure those are touchpoints along the way. It won’t happen without that intentionality.
 Hugh: Wow, that’s a lot of really good information.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 Wendy, you and I both know email has gotten pretty toxic. I took the weekend off, and after five days, I have 5,000 emails. I haven’t even started on them. If there is a crucial message in there, I am likely to miss it. That is a practical application.
 Wendy, I want to give you a chance to have a final word. What closing thought or challenge or idea would you like to leave with people today?
 Wendy: I definitely want to be able to say we have been called, our community of nonprofit nonprofessionals to again do this work better together. We may recognize that we represent several organizations. But we are talking to a lot of the same people who have a lot of the same passion which we discussed earlier about leaving a legacy beyond themselves, beyond just what’s happening today. I think instead of really jockeying for position, I know here locally there are organizations and associations that bring us together as professionals in this area to learn from one another, to do exactly what we have done here today in sharing and recognizing that I don’t have all the answers and neither do you, but as we come together, that community that we were talking about, we can actually make deeper and further impact in our world and our time that we are living in now and for the future that is coming. My charge is recognizing that everything we are learning now and engaging around and doing in our present circumstance isn’t just for today. How can we build one another up to make this world a much better place for the time we are here? That is what I have learned significantly over the last seven years and really tried to have as that common line throughout my day-to-day as I am interacting and engaging with my clients and reminding each other of that.
 That is my parting word. Remember, work is not a four-letter word. Passion in everything that we do. Enjoy it. Enjoy it and embrace it. It’s something that we need to be intentional about reminding each other about. Today is my day. Tomorrow I might be in the depth of those 5,000 emails, and I will need that reminder. Let’s be that reminder for one another.
 Hugh: Absolutely. Wendy Adams, Sports Outreach. Your wisdom far exceeds your years on this planet. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with our friends that listen to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Wendy: Thanks, Hugh.
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      <pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7c3d92da-b329-11eb-9f0f-33d506367825/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Using Sports to Build Relationships</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Stepping On and Off the Field of Hope and Transformation with Wendy Adams
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings to The Nonprofit Exchange listeners. We talk about the important themes that we as leaders step up to the plate as influencers in our arena as community leaders, as religious leaders, as leaders in organizations, no matter where we are. We do influence other people in the organization. My guest today is actually a neighbor in Lynchburg. Her name is Wendy Adams. Wendy, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Wendy Adams: Hugh, I appreciate the opportunity, especially coming off a holiday weekend, to share.
 Hugh: Oh yes. Getting back to work on the Tuesday after Labor Day. It seems like a Monday. Wendy, you are in the sports area, but you really are in the storytelling sweet spot. I am not going to try to describe what you do, but I am going to ask you to tell a snapshot of who this mysterious person called Wendy Adams is. What is it that you’re doing right now? Give us who you are and what you’re doing. I also want to know why you’re doing this.
 Wendy: Great questions, Hugh. Again, I appreciate the opportunity to share. I am in the industry of storytelling. My official title is Chief Relationship Officer. I am reminded constantly by my family that I thought I was a chief for a really long time, and now I actually have the title. Really what that comes down to is I work with Sports Outreach. We are a ministry of 30 years. November will be our 30thbirthday. We have used sports as the common language. We serve in four other countries outside the United States, and we don’t all speak the same language, but we all know what to do with a ball or how to perform on a field or on a chess board. Really what it comes down to is if we can open up conversation, then we can be able to influence. We can be an influence, and we can share where we are getting our influence from. As a Christian organization, Sports Outreach has the ability to meet both practical and spiritual needs.
 My journey really began with a bout of disobedience. When I get asked, “How did you get to where you are, Wendy?” it’s not a mystery. I am an open book. I was walking one particular path that I was clear the Lord had put me on. In 2007, He said, “I have something different for you. I want you to use those skills, those abilities in a different way.” I quickly answered, “Thanks for sharing. I love what I’m doing. I’m going to keep going.” As 2009, working as a business owner in the area of special events in Tampa, Florida at that time, things came to a screeching halt. Just as He said, He had something different. I decided to take the long route. It not only brought me to a geographical location, but He literally took the skillset of being an influencer and being a connector of people, and He turned it in a way very different, very meaningful, but not what I saw coming. That brought me into the area of what we would officially call fundraising. What it really is is relationship-building: connecting those who have a need with those who have been called to meet that need and having them meet through the story. One telling, the other listening, and how they can connect. That is really what I do: building the bridge in that. In this case, we use the bridge of sports.
 Hugh: As you probably know, I use team analogies with the orchestra, but you could use team analogies with any sports team. What we do together has a lot more profound impact if we function together as an ensemble, a musical ensemble, a drama ensemble. My sport is NASCAR. Wouldn’t have guessed that, I’m sure.
 Wendy: Not at all.
 Hugh: These guys jump over the wall. In 14.2 seconds, every tenth of a second is critical, they put in four new tires, fill the tank, clean the windshield, and they are back over the wall. They have to do it with utmost precision. They rehearse that. There is lots of different cultures of team performance. I guess you know I served mega-churches as 40 years as music director. Did you know that?
 Wendy: I did.
 Hugh: My church in Atlanta had something like 85 basketball teams and 100 softball teams. We had quite an extensive sports ministry. I understand a little bit about what you do. That wasn’t my area. How do we come together and build those really important relationships? But I also understand you have hit on a couple critical points in the first couple of minutes of this interview. Creating relationships, telling a story, and connecting people with the value of impact. You didn’t say it that way, but I heard it that way.
 Let’s unpack these. Your title is not a typical title. What is your title?
 Wendy: Chief Relationship Officer.
 Hugh: You’re under that umbrella that many call development.
 Wendy: Correct.
 Hugh: Which is a funny word.
 Wendy: It is. What are we developing?
 Hugh: Yeah. I have worked with nonprofits of all kinds for 31 years. I am changing that position to be Funding Strategist. It’s how we create all the strategies and relationships that are the underlying factor. The world I live in, underneath leadership, is relationships. Underneath funding is relationship. Underneath communication is relationship. You are probably one of the most important people in this organization as far as putting all this together.
 Start out with this. Talk about the storytelling part for a minute. How did you get good at telling stories? What is so important about how you put it together and how you deliver it?
 Wendy: I have to say the first piece to that is telling the story is actually being a good listener, which I’ll be honest, is not my natural default. Listening is an active activity, an opportunity. When I sit across the table from one who has either given to the organization or wants to know more about the organization, I really have to do less talking and more listening to be able to hear where they are. That is how you become a good storyteller is because you have to make sure you are telling the right story, what they are actually asking. If I am doing all the talking, that’s not going to happen. That’s really key in what I do. It’s something I have to be intentional in, which goes back when we talk about building relationships. It’s very intentional, not by happenstance.
 Hugh: You are getting these highlights that are so on target. I know so many people in charity work – I substitute different words. We are not in a for-profit business; we are in a for-purpose business. I hate the word “nonprofit” because it makes us think in scarcity terms.
 Wendy: And you’re in abundance.
 Hugh: Yes! It’s there. God has given us abundance, and we turn away from it instead of accepting it. There is a lot of good things we can use that for.
 What you triggered with that last thing you said, a lot of people have the script, and they give the same script to every single person without regard to what you just said. What is that person looking to do? What difference do they want to make? What are their interests? As you approach people, what are some of the things that you do to get to know that person?
 Wendy: I start with asking a lot of the same questions you have asked me. Who are you? What has brought you to the place for us to sit down and have this conversation? Tell me about your family, your background, your passions. Then you sit back and listen. Usually, in that first meeting and interaction, you may very scarcely actually speak about the organization you are serving because the whole point is to recognize where they are and how they connect with us. That is going to take time. Like any other relationship, it’s going to take time to understand those points and have them be comfortable enough to share. That first meeting is really just getting to know them, and it’s asking those probing questions. A lot of what we don’t do in the traditional networking world. I really enjoy, and it feeds me because I really get to learn. I get to interact and learn more about people. I say most often I love people. I don’t always like people. I am not always liked. But I love the interaction of people. We talk about people-watching. I love to people-listen, get to know them more, and see how we do inter-connect. I couldn’t do what I do all by myself, no matter how much I feel like I have a skillset for it. It takes all of us. To be put in a setting where I get to fill myself up with learning more about others, how they connect, how they click, what they are passionate about, really pushes me to be a better version of myself.
 Hugh: Whoa. You keep rolling out these sound bites. You can’t do it by yourself. Build relationship. It’s not about the organization; it’s about them. Here’s one that just zinged past and I am bringing it back. You said in the first meeting. It’s not one and done. Talk about that, would you?
 Wendy: Oh no. Hugh, how many times have you and I crossed paths and spent time? It’s not one and done. I don’t go into it thinking one and done. This is for longevity. They’re looking to leave legacy. They want to make sure that beyond themselves, who they are is left behind and others will know. That takes time. That’s not going to happen in one interaction. When I think of any of the relationships, we can all think back to high school. Maybe it was a great experience, maybe it wasn’t. When you think about the opportunities to engage with the people you knew at that point in time, how long did it take to establish a relationship that you could still engage with that person today? We are not high school students anymore, well past that. You cannot think about it as a one and done. You go into it knowing you want more. You go into it recognizing the next time we cross paths, I will be looking forward to learning what’s happened since that time to where we are. It’s that expectation that comes across in conversations that I think draws people in to say, “I want to tell you more.”
 Hugh: The other one you talked about is before you can be a good storyteller, you have to be a good listener. How am I doing on that listening so far?
 Wendy: You’re doing great. You actually do a fantastic job with that. You know why I know that, Hugh? When we have conversations, the next time we engage, there is usually some sound bite you bring back to the table from our last engagement. That is active listening, to hold onto those nuggets.
 Hugh: Active listening. It’s active, empathetic listening. It’s caring about the person. There is a quote I can’t chase down the origin of, “Listening is so close to loving you can hardly tell the difference.” Isn’t that rich? We need more love. We have people fighting over things. We need more love.
 We are in a place where charities in this world are more important than ever before in history. We are doing a lot more important stuff. It’s important for us as professionals in that space to continue working on yourself. You said that somewhere along the way. You’re always working on yourself. Jim Rohn, the motivational speaker who used to speak a lot in front of multi-level companies, but he did a lot of generic presentations, was known to say just about every time, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.”
 Wendy: It’s a great point.
 Hugh: You and I knew each other from the Lynchburg Business Alliance. I hear you present at the first Friday gathering, and Lynchburg Business Alliance is a great organization. It’s like a chamber of commerce on steroids.
 Wendy: Great analogy.
 Hugh: You step out. I talk, and I feel stupid. You step up, and it’s brilliant. Let’s talk about you’re making a presentation. I see people making presentations that don’t make eye contact, they don’t work on their language, they don’t face the person and look engaged, and they talk all the time and don’t listen. What I have noticed about you is A) you are a top notch presenter. You are a speaker, and you have lots of poise. But you have lots of skill. Did you get coaching on presentation skills? How did you get where you are with your delivery? Your articulation is wonderful. Your physical presence, your demeanor, you’re there, you’re engaged with people. Your pacing is very good. It’s so easy to follow. Those aren’t skills you normally drop in and go with. Did you have some learning to get where you are now?
 Wendy: I don’t hear myself that way. It’s great to know that’s what’s coming across. It goes back to that intentionality. No formal training. I’ll be very honest with you. I can’t wait to share this recording with my mother. In fourth grade, the big thing was, “She is a great student, Mrs. Adams, if we could just get her to stop talking.” So now I’m using the power for good.
 I have just been talking for a very long time. I do like to be heard. We do. We as humans do like to be heard. What makes it pleasant for someone to listen? A big part of it is recognizing your audience. If there is a time frame, we have 30 seconds. 30 seconds is 30 seconds. What can I do in that 30 seconds to convey a message that will be pleasing and attractive to my audience?
 Back to that intentionality and thinking it through. We are talking to people at 8:15 in the morning. Have they all had their coffee? What is going to draw them in and engage them for that 30 seconds and get that message across? Leaving them wanting a little bit more. When that time comes for further dialogue, we have something to springboard off of.
 Clarity in our speech. People need to be able to understand. If they can’t understand, they’re checked out. We’re busy. There is so much coming past us on a moment by moment basis that if you bog them down with so much, and all these words, and they can’t figure out what you’re trying to say, what you’re trying to convey, what you want them to hear, they’re done. We’re busy. It’s taking those things. I hone in on everything I do to be intentional. Whether that’s in my personal or professional life because time is precious. It is the most precious commodity we have. Can’t get more of it. So let’s use it to the fullest. Those are the things that roll through my mind as we pass that circle and I see my time coming, “How can I use this most precious commodity with these people who have given me their time?”
 Hugh: That would be generally true of anybody you are speaking to on behalf of the organization, I guess.
 Wendy: Most definitely. There is no doubt. There is so much. We are one of how many organizations. We know that it used to be on average that those that give to a nonprofit who want to do more and beyond themselves, they were having at least seven to ten opportunities coming through to them on a weekly basis. That number has exponentially grown at this point in time. As we get toward the end of the year, that steps up even further because of those who want to jump into the game and get their message out there. Going back to that active listening. Do I know this person well enough that I can speak into what speaks to them? If I haven’t had that opportunity yet, let me at least know that I am engaging and not wasting their time. If there is something that speaks there, they come back and say, “I do want to know more.” So yes, in every conversation, that is the whole point I walk in with.
 Hugh: That is such a key point. You keep hitting all the high spots. Let’s unpack that one. You said you want to leave them wanting to know more. I teach at a business growth conference that happens in the Tampa Bay area where you are from. I have been presenting at 12 years. There are meal tables, and they get to sit with faculty and present a pitch. I have been at 900 of those meal tables over the last 12 years. 4-8 people at a time giving their pitch. Universally, there is too much data. That is the hardest thing to cure. We are so enthusiastic, and we want people to be as enthusiastic as we are. There is so much to know. How do you get to what is the essential message you want to give people? How do you stage it so you get their interest? They are not looking for places to put their money typically. They are giving you the time because you have the relationship. How do you go through this sorting process of coming up with what the essential message is for the first and second time?
 Wendy: What it comes down to is learning as much as I can, if it’s an individual, about the individual. Most cases, someone is being introduced to me through someone else. How much can that person who is doing the introduction tell me about who I am going to be sharing with and having that opportunity to sit down and have a meal with? Going in with that knowledge.
 Again, I have to be super intentional about this because I am a talker. My natural inclination is to tell you everything. I am excited. But I walk in there recognizing that I will never be able to tell you all of it, and I need you to experience it. The best way for you to experience it is when you come back to me and want to ask questions and know more. I have to leave you that cliffhanger. It’s like writing that drama series. You want them to come back next week. How do I give you just enough of the information, being respectful of your time, knowing what I know about you, but leaving enough of a question mark, not I don’t know what you talked about, but I want to know more. It is setting the time before any meeting, any interaction to think through and putting that together. It is orchestrated to a point, and letting them take the lead in bringing that about.
 Hugh: How did you get here? You said your teacher said you talked a lot. How did you get from where that was to where you are today?
 Wendy: Lots of trial and error. It wasn’t something that was overnight. It was recognizing that work does not have to be and is not intended to be a four-letter word. It is something you can actually enjoy and have passion about. Your passion and your career can come into a marriage that is harmonious. That does not mean that we live in a happily ever after, and you wake up every Monday morning and say, “I just can’t wait to.” That doesn’t mean that’s the case, but it does mean there is a recognition, there is a purpose behind what I am doing. I am able to live in that purpose and perform in that purpose and engage in that purpose on a daily basis. That is what brings me the joy. Happiness is not the end goal. That’s circumstantial. Circumstances don’t always bring about the outcome that I want. Happy is not where I want to reside; joy is where I need to reside.
 It’s been through a process. The business I had for almost 12 years in Tampa Bay, I did well at a point in time. I realized one of my dreams, which was to manage a major sporting event, which was the Super Bowl in 2009. At the end of that very year, my highest high, I experienced my lowest low, when the economy took such a tank that it took my small business and pushed me into bankruptcy. Something that was one of the most difficult things in my life to walk through. This is who I had identified myself to be. My faith has really been the catapult to, through the highs and lows, keep me grounded as to not getting caught up in the day-to-day circumstances, but recognizing it is a journey.
 That is what took me from that fourth grader who just wouldn’t stop talking. It has been honed and manipulated on that potter’s wheel to a point where I recognize the strengths in it and the weaknesses and being intentional about honing both of those. Allowing the weaknesses to be decreased and those strengths to be increased. It’s in my power, but with my hands surrendered open. No secret. The secret is open to all of us to be able to do those very same things because that was the intention of our Creator for us. That is where I find most of my joy: knowing I Have laid myself in His hands. He is the one who is doing it; I get to experience the joy through it.
 Hugh: It is a true joy. There are a couple things there about perseverance. Getting a no. it’s hard not to take that personally. Keeping the faith when you get no’s. There is a process. I want to ask you about the steps and the process. But first, are you familiar with Napoleon Hill and his writing?
 Wendy:I am not.
 Hugh: Napoleon Hill met Andrew Carnegie. You know that name?
 Wendy: Yes.
 Hugh: Andrew Carnegie said, “If you work for me for 20 years, I will introduce you to the most successful people in America.” It was the 1930s, so they were all male and that competitive capitalist of Rockefellers and Wanamakers and Carnegie himself and Ford presidents. 500 people he interviewed. Came up with this law of success. A lot of it is what you just articulated. God has given us natural laws. We either work with them or not if you want to be successful. What you are presenting ought to be intuitive, but they are logical laws of how things work. The laws of nature, the laws of human relationships. When we don’t have a sensitivity to how those work, then we don’t get the results we think we should.
 What he distilled out of those, he wrote lots of documents, but what he distilled were four major pieces. All those people had definiteness of purpose. You talk about purpose. They were very clear on their purpose. They were also very clear they brought value to people in what they were doing. Think of Thomas Edison, the most prolific inventor he ever heard of. He was so intent on inventing things to help people. They also gathered in a group that he determined to be a mastermind group, and they helped each other out. There was this community of people they work with. The last one was this thing about intention. There was no admission of failure. He said every failure there is a seed of a future success. Failure in my language is a rehearsal for success. It is a learning opportunity. Those are very similar to what you said. Napoleon Hill wrote a lot of things. People mistakenly think it’s about greed and money when really it’s about creating this position that you can influence people to create value that brings everyone benefits. I didn’t know if you knew about those writings. They are often misplaced and miscued to be greed when really it’s about what you just said. The way I have read it over the last 30 years.
 Any response to that?
 Wendy: You hit two great points that are pivotal for me in my day to day. Professionally and personally. One is the idea and the concept of community. The fact of how important it is. We weren’t designed to be these lone soldiers. I know that our culture says, I don’t need, I can do all by myself, self-made, things of that nature. But we really are, not to just use terminology that has been thrown around, better together because that is how we were designed to be. I recognize whether I am talking about my core team I work with within our headquarter staff here in Lynchburg, whether I am talking about our staff that is all the way around the world, or our community of supporters. It is because of all of us working in harmony, community, having that unity, having that common purpose, keeping that common language in front of us that really makes us better. No matter how much I may be in the position of garnering funds down to this basic core of being a fundraiser, truly, if I don’t have intentional communication and unity with my operations staff, communications staff, finance, it’s not going to work. I am not going to be the best I can be, and they won’t either.
 Making sure, because that audience is just as important, thinking of my board. They are coming from different aspects. Those are volunteers. We think of board members and how much influence they have. They are volunteers, volunteering their time. One of the main things that you said that sparked with me that is an underlying current is keeping that community in the forefront of anything that we are doing.
 Hugh: But your board of directors is your mastermind group, if we would like them to be.
 Wendy: Yes.
 Hugh: How do you interface with the board?
 Wendy: I try to be as personal with them as I am with those who I sit shoulder to shoulder with within the office. Again, trying to get to know them, making no assumptions that because they have been a board member for 25 years, that they actually understand all of what is going on in the organization and the direction we are going in. it is so easy to get caught up in how we have done it. Sports Outreach is 30 years old. I started with them last June. This is the first time this organization has really been in a place of having formalized development, formalized fundraising, relationship cultivation. It’s been friend-raising to this point in time. Someone may know this snapshot about this organization, and may not realize they are part of an organization that is really reaching a much broader scope. That includes our board. It’s spending time and being intentional and picking up that phone, beyond an email, and saying, “I need 30 minutes of your time for me to tell you who the organization can best serve you. What are your passions beyond sitting at that board table?” We have a very active board, a very engaged board, but there are definitely those who are founding board members and who are a little stuck a couple years back, if not a decade or so back, to where the organization is, simply because someone hasn’t had that intentional conversation and allowed them to share where they are.
 Hugh: That never happens in any other board, you know.
 Wendy: I am glad to know we’re not alone.
 Hugh: I would say you are in really good company. It’s part of human nature. It’s people like you who inspire people to think out of the old box. Interfacing with the board is key for your position, isn’t it?
 Wendy: It is. If I don’t have board support or understanding, they are introducing me to, when we go back to how I get those initial meetings or who am I sitting and talking to, what are those relationships that need to be cultivated, my board is key in opening those doors. If I don’t know them well enough and in turn they don’t know me well enough, they are not going to open those doors up. They will continue to come and sit around the table. We will sign some documents twice a year and move on. If that’s not the case when you sit down and have that one on one conversation with a board member outside of the round table and say, “How is the organization speaking to you? Where do you see our strengths?” opening that door to say, “Where are areas we need work?” Again, people want to be heard. The relationships that are built there are crucial. Recognizing that, especially as one who is coming in brand new to not only a position, but for all intents and purposes, I wasn’t replacing anyone. We were building. I need those to come around me to help build us together. I have received a lot of appreciation for that approach. I would not be one to be listed as traditional. I am outside of the box. We talk about the elephant in the room because he’s not going away even if we don’t talk about him. That’s how we get up and over and on to that next level. It makes some uncomfortable. No doubt. But we don’t just leave it there. That's where the difference is. You can open up a can and let it fly. It goes back to that intentionality of needing to deal with something, so let’s do this together.
 Hugh: I’m pointing out to listeners that the elephant in the room was a “he.”
 Wendy: Yeah, I recognize that’s what I said.
 Hugh: I wasn’t going to let that slide by. It’s probably more true than not.
 There are boards that think when they have a person like you, they don’t have any work to do. What are the different components of your work? I’m thinking there is a teaching component, a team component, a prep component. What are some of the components that relate specifically with the board?
 Wendy: You hit on a lot of them. The number one is teaching. They don’t take anything for granted that they just know. There is that idea of we know that this needs to happen. Why does it not just in our organization, but in my previous organization as well. The area of cultivating relationships, we know is important, and it’s people give to people, not to organizations. If we know it’s important to be able to have that groundwork, why does it most times come across as an afterthought to put someone in that role? It’s not because of the dollars and cents that go along with the role that I have, truly and honestly, especially when you are working in the area of as you said, we don’t like to use the term analogy “nonprofit,” but we do recognize that those dollars are crucial. How they come in and how they are being used and the impact we are making and the responsibility that we have with those dollars. Where the rub usually comes in or what makes people uncomfortable is what someone in my role brings to the table to say that we have to do. A lot of that is we have to do this together. It isn’t you get to come in twice a year and speak through a couple of agenda points and move on. There is an expectation that we are going to engage together. We are going to sit down together and meet with us. You won’t give me a list of names and say go. You’re going to share with me relationships that you have established, and we will do that together to a certain point because without you. I am just another person on the other end of the phone. It is that education component that I feel is most crucial with a board, especially an established board.
 Then there is the thinking outside of the box. We will only get what we have always gotten if we always do what we have always done. We have to do it differently if we want different outcomes. You want to have a board that is established and not feel they are flighty and all over the place. There is that danger of becoming complacent unintentionally if you just let it lie. There is that pushing component. I don’t know what the best terminology for that is. We do have to stay on the cutting edge. We do have to continue to see what are our constituency saying to us? Listen through their giving or their non-giving. Or they literally are speaking to us. They are writing back on- are we listening, or are we continuing to communicate what we want and we have always done a newsletter every month so we will keep going. Maybe we need to do a quarterly. Maybe we need a new format. Maybe we need more pictures. Maybe it is too wordy. If these are the things they are saying.
 Those two components, just within my first year, are the things I have spent most of my time with the board in presenting and showing credence to. Listening to them and giving pushback. Thankfully I have to say I have a board who has accepted that really well, even when we don’t all agree. But they have given me the opportunity to share, to listen. I don’t have all of the answers. But I have been in this industry for a while. The big thing is I have been who I am for 43 years. I recognize that really spending time with those who are like-minded and they want to share, spending time listening to what they are sharing and acting upon it, has the greatest impact.
 Hugh: This listening goes all the way around. It’s not just your donors. It’s your board members as well. I experience you as very direct in asking for what you need. That’s one reason I see that board members don’t perform on any level because they haven’t been asked to do so. Let’s ask them to do it, but let’s give them the skills and the documents. They need a one-sheet, or they will talk from a slide deck or the verbiage to open the door for you to come if there is a high-net-worth donor who wants to talk to the person in your seat.
 There is also a factor of what psychologists call money shadow. People don’t feel comfortable talking about money so they actually repel it. I find a lot of people say, “I am going to give you a name. Would you connect with us?” I don’t want to talk about money. There is something negative in talking about money. Do you know what I’m talking about?
 Wendy: I do. I have heard it enough times from constituency, from our supporters who have said- Just last year, I was waiting to be asked. I needed someone to explain. I wanted someone to understand. Just waiting for the ask. We sit in conferences and hear these things and read blogs that say it, but I have actually experienced it. Waiting for the ask. To share that with a board member that this sphere that we have of they don’t want to be asked. It’s just the opposite.
 The other piece to it is the education of. It’s not going in haphazardly. We have a need, and we want you to meet the need here. Back to that intentional conversation. Where is their heart? What is their passion? We serve in a lot of different areas. Through this area of sports ministry, we are touching lives from child sponsorship to feeding programs to education to church planting. There is so much that outpours off the field we are serving that there is bound to be an area where we have to listen, and then you can make that presentation. Oh, they are selling a house. They are sending children off to college. Where are they? That will give you an opportunity to have an ask that is intentional. Again, they want that. I tell board members, and I tell other colleagues, and I have to remind myself of this: It is truly not an ask for dollars and cents – it is an invitation to make impact. That’s what it is. Everybody likes to be invited. Everybody likes to be invited. I want in on that party. That’s the way I walk into a conversation. If I feel like I’m coming after your wallet, then I don’t want to do that. Who wants that? We are going to clench that wallet or that purse so tightly because now you are trying to rob me. But if you are inviting me, I am ready to be a part of that. That is a mindset that has to be one that doesn’t just- cute little phrase to say. No I have to live that out. When I believe that, that’s why it is easy to go in and say, “Here’s an invitation, Mr. Walmart.”
 Hugh: Those are really good words. So many good sound bites in this. There is a front end story telling before you meet the donor. There is also a back end after they have donated. We fail miserably here telling them what has happened with their money, telling them the story. You come up on the anniversary. Then when you ask for another donation, it’s a whole different ball game. How do you navigate that?
 Wendy: The first thing after they have donated is make sure you don’t muddy the waters and you thank the supporter. We can’t mix all of these things together. There really is an opportunity to thank the donor for what they have done. Thank that supporter for how they have come alongside you, how they have deepened the relationship to accomplish that impact. They want to be appreciated. You want to be appreciated. I want to be appreciated. It’s built into our DNA. Making sure we don’t gloss over that with just a receipt letter saying we received these dollars, but actually saying thank you for the impact you have made. Thanking them. You’re right. If the next time they hear from us is the next time there is an invitation to give, and they don’t know what that last has actually done, I am quite convinced you will get another gift. It’s not going to be the gift that we could have gotten if we had actually shown, if they had become connected with the people on the other end of that gift and not just gotten stuck on the dollar and decimal.
 Those are the steps that come along the way is making sure they have that engagement piece and they know they can picture that coming across. Making it real to them. We have the opportunity within our organization to put our supporters on the field where they are serving and interact. That’s not for everyone. I recognize that. Whether it may be stage of life or financial component, just not a desire to travel internationally. But they still want to know. They still want to experience. That as a storyteller is a good portion of my job is making that as real for them through video, through photo, through my story from being on the ground myself. I just returned from El Salvador in July. I have been thoroughly excited, pulling my pictures together, throwing up on the slideshows as if I wanted to share with my family. This is what I was able to experience. Look at what we are doing. We collectively. Not Sports Outreach headquarters, Wendy Adams, chief relationship officer. What we are collectively doing and able to make impact and who we are touching. Families that are. Children that were getting drawn into gang violence and now have an option because there was no option before. That brings people to a point of wow, that’s happening? I am a part of that? Not only do I want to remain a part of that, but I also want to deepen that and share with others. All of a sudden, I have just extended my development team.
 Hugh: I am going to give you a chance to leave people with a parting thought. Before we do that, talk about the start from where you finished. What are some steps and a process to find, engage, present, secure the donation, and follow up? Can you give me some of the timeline steps in that timeline?
 Wendy: Yeah. I can try to do that in a concise manner here. Making sure that you’re comfortable, I am comfortable enough with my message, that I know who we are. Who am I? Who is Sports Outreach? What are we doing? What are we accomplishing? What is our mission so I can articulate that in a way that makes sense? When I have that opportunity to share, it’s being intentional with the time and with the person who I am with. Knowing about them, sharing that. That first meeting and getting to know them, make sure there is a follow-up. You immediately thank them for that time. That was the first gift they gave: the time to sit and listen and share. Following up with a thank-you there. We can’t out-thank. There is no over-thanking. You can’t. When it comes to a point of making that invitation to give, making sure that that is something that is connected to the supporter’s perspective, or established but you want them to go deeper. That is not something out of the clear blue just because the organization needs it.
 From that point, then we make sure we thank them for that gift. Again, going back to that thanking. Then taking those steps to make sure there is an intentionality of impact storytelling along the way. A blog comes through. They may not be an Internet person. That may not be the way. If they are like my mother, she will check every ten days. Print it off. Write a handwritten note, and throw it in that snail mail box so they can see this is the difference that we are making together. I can’t say thank you enough. Inviting them to share it with others. Don’t leave it out there as just well, they are going to do that. Invite them to do that. Remind them how important it is to get the word out that we celebrate this with others. At any opportunity to take them to another level and for each person, you have to have your notes because for each person, that next level is something different. Make sure we do have an intentional plan along the way of how we are going to continue to deepen our relationship.
 I know those are the steps that work. Honestly, if we think about it, and you said this before, those are the basics of human interaction. We could take the fundraising portion off the table. That is how we deepen the relationships one on one personally. Making sure those are touchpoints along the way. It won’t happen without that intentionality.
 Hugh: Wow, that’s a lot of really good information.
 *Sponsor message from Wordsprint*
 Wendy, you and I both know email has gotten pretty toxic. I took the weekend off, and after five days, I have 5,000 emails. I haven’t even started on them. If there is a crucial message in there, I am likely to miss it. That is a practical application.
 Wendy, I want to give you a chance to have a final word. What closing thought or challenge or idea would you like to leave with people today?
 Wendy: I definitely want to be able to say we have been called, our community of nonprofit nonprofessionals to again do this work better together. We may recognize that we represent several organizations. But we are talking to a lot of the same people who have a lot of the same passion which we discussed earlier about leaving a legacy beyond themselves, beyond just what’s happening today. I think instead of really jockeying for position, I know here locally there are organizations and associations that bring us together as professionals in this area to learn from one another, to do exactly what we have done here today in sharing and recognizing that I don’t have all the answers and neither do you, but as we come together, that community that we were talking about, we can actually make deeper and further impact in our world and our time that we are living in now and for the future that is coming. My charge is recognizing that everything we are learning now and engaging around and doing in our present circumstance isn’t just for today. How can we build one another up to make this world a much better place for the time we are here? That is what I have learned significantly over the last seven years and really tried to have as that common line throughout my day-to-day as I am interacting and engaging with my clients and reminding each other of that.
 That is my parting word. Remember, work is not a four-letter word. Passion in everything that we do. Enjoy it. Enjoy it and embrace it. It’s something that we need to be intentional about reminding each other about. Today is my day. Tomorrow I might be in the depth of those 5,000 emails, and I will need that reminder. Let’s be that reminder for one another.
 Hugh: Absolutely. Wendy Adams, Sports Outreach. Your wisdom far exceeds your years on this planet. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with our friends that listen to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Wendy: Thanks, Hugh.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Stepping On and Off the Field of Hope and Transformation with Wendy Adams</strong></p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em> listeners. We talk about the important themes that we as leaders step up to the plate as influencers in our arena as community leaders, as religious leaders, as leaders in organizations, no matter where we are. We do influence other people in the organization. My guest today is actually a neighbor in Lynchburg. Her name is Wendy Adams. Wendy, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em></p> <p><strong>Wendy Adams:</strong> Hugh, I appreciate the opportunity, especially coming off a holiday weekend, to share.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh yes. Getting back to work on the Tuesday after Labor Day. It seems like a Monday. Wendy, you are in the sports area, but you really are in the storytelling sweet spot. I am not going to try to describe what you do, but I am going to ask you to tell a snapshot of who this mysterious person called Wendy Adams is. What is it that you’re doing right now? Give us who you are and what you’re doing. I also want to know why you’re doing this.</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Great questions, Hugh. Again, I appreciate the opportunity to share. I am in the industry of storytelling. My official title is Chief Relationship Officer. I am reminded constantly by my family that I thought I was a chief for a really long time, and now I actually have the title. Really what that comes down to is I work with Sports Outreach. We are a ministry of 30 years. November will be our 30thbirthday. We have used sports as the common language. We serve in four other countries outside the United States, and we don’t all speak the same language, but we all know what to do with a ball or how to perform on a field or on a chess board. Really what it comes down to is if we can open up conversation, then we can be able to influence. We can be an influence, and we can share where we are getting our influence from. As a Christian organization, Sports Outreach has the ability to meet both practical and spiritual needs.</p> <p>My journey really began with a bout of disobedience. When I get asked, “How did you get to where you are, Wendy?” it’s not a mystery. I am an open book. I was walking one particular path that I was clear the Lord had put me on. In 2007, He said, “I have something different for you. I want you to use those skills, those abilities in a different way.” I quickly answered, “Thanks for sharing. I love what I’m doing. I’m going to keep going.” As 2009, working as a business owner in the area of special events in Tampa, Florida at that time, things came to a screeching halt. Just as He said, He had something different. I decided to take the long route. It not only brought me to a geographical location, but He literally took the skillset of being an influencer and being a connector of people, and He turned it in a way very different, very meaningful, but not what I saw coming. That brought me into the area of what we would officially call fundraising. What it really is is relationship-building: connecting those who have a need with those who have been called to meet that need and having them meet through the story. One telling, the other listening, and how they can connect. That is really what I do: building the bridge in that. In this case, we use the bridge of sports.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> As you probably know, I use team analogies with the orchestra, but you could use team analogies with any sports team. What we do together has a lot more profound impact if we function together as an ensemble, a musical ensemble, a drama ensemble. My sport is NASCAR. Wouldn’t have guessed that, I’m sure.</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Not at all.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> These guys jump over the wall. In 14.2 seconds, every tenth of a second is critical, they put in four new tires, fill the tank, clean the windshield, and they are back over the wall. They have to do it with utmost precision. They rehearse that. There is lots of different cultures of team performance. I guess you know I served mega-churches as 40 years as music director. Did you know that?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> I did.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> My church in Atlanta had something like 85 basketball teams and 100 softball teams. We had quite an extensive sports ministry. I understand a little bit about what you do. That wasn’t my area. How do we come together and build those really important relationships? But I also understand you have hit on a couple critical points in the first couple of minutes of this interview. Creating relationships, telling a story, and connecting people with the value of impact. You didn’t say it that way, but I heard it that way.</p> <p>Let’s unpack these. Your title is not a typical title. What is your title?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Chief Relationship Officer.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re under that umbrella that many call development.</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Correct.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Which is a funny word.</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> It is. What are we developing?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yeah. I have worked with nonprofits of all kinds for 31 years. I am changing that position to be Funding Strategist. It’s how we create all the strategies and relationships that are the underlying factor. The world I live in, underneath leadership, is relationships. Underneath funding is relationship. Underneath communication is relationship. You are probably one of the most important people in this organization as far as putting all this together.</p> <p>Start out with this. Talk about the storytelling part for a minute. How did you get good at telling stories? What is so important about how you put it together and how you deliver it?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> I have to say the first piece to that is telling the story is actually being a good listener, which I’ll be honest, is not my natural default. Listening is an active activity, an opportunity. When I sit across the table from one who has either given to the organization or wants to know more about the organization, I really have to do less talking and more listening to be able to hear where they are. That is how you become a good storyteller is because you have to make sure you are telling the right story, what they are actually asking. If I am doing all the talking, that’s not going to happen. That’s really key in what I do. It’s something I have to be intentional in, which goes back when we talk about building relationships. It’s very intentional, not by happenstance.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You are getting these highlights that are so on target. I know so many people in charity work – I substitute different words. We are not in a for-profit business; we are in a for-purpose business. I hate the word “nonprofit” because it makes us think in scarcity terms.</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> And you’re in abundance.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes! It’s there. God has given us abundance, and we turn away from it instead of accepting it. There is a lot of good things we can use that for.</p> <p>What you triggered with that last thing you said, a lot of people have the script, and they give the same script to every single person without regard to what you just said. What is that person looking to do? What difference do they want to make? What are their interests? As you approach people, what are some of the things that you do to get to know that person?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> I start with asking a lot of the same questions you have asked me. Who are you? What has brought you to the place for us to sit down and have this conversation? Tell me about your family, your background, your passions. Then you sit back and listen. Usually, in that first meeting and interaction, you may very scarcely actually speak about the organization you are serving because the whole point is to recognize where they are and how they connect with us. That is going to take time. Like any other relationship, it’s going to take time to understand those points and have them be comfortable enough to share. That first meeting is really just getting to know them, and it’s asking those probing questions. A lot of what we don’t do in the traditional networking world. I really enjoy, and it feeds me because I really get to learn. I get to interact and learn more about people. I say most often I love people. I don’t always like people. I am not always liked. But I love the interaction of people. We talk about people-watching. I love to people-listen, get to know them more, and see how we do inter-connect. I couldn’t do what I do all by myself, no matter how much I feel like I have a skillset for it. It takes all of us. To be put in a setting where I get to fill myself up with learning more about others, how they connect, how they click, what they are passionate about, really pushes me to be a better version of myself.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Whoa. You keep rolling out these sound bites. You can’t do it by yourself. Build relationship. It’s not about the organization; it’s about them. Here’s one that just zinged past and I am bringing it back. You said in the first meeting. It’s not one and done. Talk about that, would you?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Oh no. Hugh, how many times have you and I crossed paths and spent time? It’s not one and done. I don’t go into it thinking one and done. This is for longevity. They’re looking to leave legacy. They want to make sure that beyond themselves, who they are is left behind and others will know. That takes time. That’s not going to happen in one interaction. When I think of any of the relationships, we can all think back to high school. Maybe it was a great experience, maybe it wasn’t. When you think about the opportunities to engage with the people you knew at that point in time, how long did it take to establish a relationship that you could still engage with that person today? We are not high school students anymore, well past that. You cannot think about it as a one and done. You go into it knowing you want more. You go into it recognizing the next time we cross paths, I will be looking forward to learning what’s happened since that time to where we are. It’s that expectation that comes across in conversations that I think draws people in to say, “I want to tell you more.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The other one you talked about is before you can be a good storyteller, you have to be a good listener. How am I doing on that listening so far?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> You’re doing great. You actually do a fantastic job with that. You know why I know that, Hugh? When we have conversations, the next time we engage, there is usually some sound bite you bring back to the table from our last engagement. That is active listening, to hold onto those nuggets.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Active listening. It’s active, empathetic listening. It’s caring about the person. There is a quote I can’t chase down the origin of, “Listening is so close to loving you can hardly tell the difference.” Isn’t that rich? We need more love. We have people fighting over things. We need more love.</p> <p>We are in a place where charities in this world are more important than ever before in history. We are doing a lot more important stuff. It’s important for us as professionals in that space to continue working on yourself. You said that somewhere along the way. You’re always working on yourself. Jim Rohn, the motivational speaker who used to speak a lot in front of multi-level companies, but he did a lot of generic presentations, was known to say just about every time, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.”</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> It’s a great point.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You and I knew each other from the Lynchburg Business Alliance. I hear you present at the first Friday gathering, and Lynchburg Business Alliance is a great organization. It’s like a chamber of commerce on steroids.</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Great analogy.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You step out. I talk, and I feel stupid. You step up, and it’s brilliant. Let’s talk about you’re making a presentation. I see people making presentations that don’t make eye contact, they don’t work on their language, they don’t face the person and look engaged, and they talk all the time and don’t listen. What I have noticed about you is A) you are a top notch presenter. You are a speaker, and you have lots of poise. But you have lots of skill. Did you get coaching on presentation skills? How did you get where you are with your delivery? Your articulation is wonderful. Your physical presence, your demeanor, you’re there, you’re engaged with people. Your pacing is very good. It’s so easy to follow. Those aren’t skills you normally drop in and go with. Did you have some learning to get where you are now?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> I don’t hear myself that way. It’s great to know that’s what’s coming across. It goes back to that intentionality. No formal training. I’ll be very honest with you. I can’t wait to share this recording with my mother. In fourth grade, the big thing was, “She is a great student, Mrs. Adams, if we could just get her to stop talking.” So now I’m using the power for good.</p> <p>I have just been talking for a very long time. I do like to be heard. We do. We as humans do like to be heard. What makes it pleasant for someone to listen? A big part of it is recognizing your audience. If there is a time frame, we have 30 seconds. 30 seconds is 30 seconds. What can I do in that 30 seconds to convey a message that will be pleasing and attractive to my audience?</p> <p>Back to that intentionality and thinking it through. We are talking to people at 8:15 in the morning. Have they all had their coffee? What is going to draw them in and engage them for that 30 seconds and get that message across? Leaving them wanting a little bit more. When that time comes for further dialogue, we have something to springboard off of.</p> <p>Clarity in our speech. People need to be able to understand. If they can’t understand, they’re checked out. We’re busy. There is so much coming past us on a moment by moment basis that if you bog them down with so much, and all these words, and they can’t figure out what you’re trying to say, what you’re trying to convey, what you want them to hear, they’re done. We’re busy. It’s taking those things. I hone in on everything I do to be intentional. Whether that’s in my personal or professional life because time is precious. It is the most precious commodity we have. Can’t get more of it. So let’s use it to the fullest. Those are the things that roll through my mind as we pass that circle and I see my time coming, “How can I use this most precious commodity with these people who have given me their time?”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That would be generally true of anybody you are speaking to on behalf of the organization, I guess.</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Most definitely. There is no doubt. There is so much. We are one of how many organizations. We know that it used to be on average that those that give to a nonprofit who want to do more and beyond themselves, they were having at least seven to ten opportunities coming through to them on a weekly basis. That number has exponentially grown at this point in time. As we get toward the end of the year, that steps up even further because of those who want to jump into the game and get their message out there. Going back to that active listening. Do I know this person well enough that I can speak into what speaks to them? If I haven’t had that opportunity yet, let me at least know that I am engaging and not wasting their time. If there is something that speaks there, they come back and say, “I do want to know more.” So yes, in every conversation, that is the whole point I walk in with.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is such a key point. You keep hitting all the high spots. Let’s unpack that one. You said you want to leave them wanting to know more. I teach at a business growth conference that happens in the Tampa Bay area where you are from. I have been presenting at 12 years. There are meal tables, and they get to sit with faculty and present a pitch. I have been at 900 of those meal tables over the last 12 years. 4-8 people at a time giving their pitch. Universally, there is too much data. That is the hardest thing to cure. We are so enthusiastic, and we want people to be as enthusiastic as we are. There is so much to know. How do you get to what is the essential message you want to give people? How do you stage it so you get their interest? They are not looking for places to put their money typically. They are giving you the time because you have the relationship. How do you go through this sorting process of coming up with what the essential message is for the first and second time?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> What it comes down to is learning as much as I can, if it’s an individual, about the individual. Most cases, someone is being introduced to me through someone else. How much can that person who is doing the introduction tell me about who I am going to be sharing with and having that opportunity to sit down and have a meal with? Going in with that knowledge.</p> <p>Again, I have to be super intentional about this because I am a talker. My natural inclination is to tell you everything. I am excited. But I walk in there recognizing that I will never be able to tell you all of it, and I need you to experience it. The best way for you to experience it is when you come back to me and want to ask questions and know more. I have to leave you that cliffhanger. It’s like writing that drama series. You want them to come back next week. How do I give you just enough of the information, being respectful of your time, knowing what I know about you, but leaving enough of a question mark, not I don’t know what you talked about, but I want to know more. It is setting the time before any meeting, any interaction to think through and putting that together. It is orchestrated to a point, and letting them take the lead in bringing that about.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> How did you get here? You said your teacher said you talked a lot. How did you get from where that was to where you are today?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Lots of trial and error. It wasn’t something that was overnight. It was recognizing that work does not have to be and is not intended to be a four-letter word. It is something you can actually enjoy and have passion about. Your passion and your career can come into a marriage that is harmonious. That does not mean that we live in a happily ever after, and you wake up every Monday morning and say, “I just can’t wait to.” That doesn’t mean that’s the case, but it does mean there is a recognition, there is a purpose behind what I am doing. I am able to live in that purpose and perform in that purpose and engage in that purpose on a daily basis. That is what brings me the joy. Happiness is not the end goal. That’s circumstantial. Circumstances don’t always bring about the outcome that I want. Happy is not where I want to reside; joy is where I need to reside.</p> <p>It’s been through a process. The business I had for almost 12 years in Tampa Bay, I did well at a point in time. I realized one of my dreams, which was to manage a major sporting event, which was the Super Bowl in 2009. At the end of that very year, my highest high, I experienced my lowest low, when the economy took such a tank that it took my small business and pushed me into bankruptcy. Something that was one of the most difficult things in my life to walk through. This is who I had identified myself to be. My faith has really been the catapult to, through the highs and lows, keep me grounded as to not getting caught up in the day-to-day circumstances, but recognizing it is a journey.</p> <p>That is what took me from that fourth grader who just wouldn’t stop talking. It has been honed and manipulated on that potter’s wheel to a point where I recognize the strengths in it and the weaknesses and being intentional about honing both of those. Allowing the weaknesses to be decreased and those strengths to be increased. It’s in my power, but with my hands surrendered open. No secret. The secret is open to all of us to be able to do those very same things because that was the intention of our Creator for us. That is where I find most of my joy: knowing I Have laid myself in His hands. He is the one who is doing it; I get to experience the joy through it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It is a true joy. There are a couple things there about perseverance. Getting a no. it’s hard not to take that personally. Keeping the faith when you get no’s. There is a process. I want to ask you about the steps and the process. But first, are you familiar with Napoleon Hill and his writing?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong>I am not.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Napoleon Hill met Andrew Carnegie. You know that name?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Andrew Carnegie said, “If you work for me for 20 years, I will introduce you to the most successful people in America.” It was the 1930s, so they were all male and that competitive capitalist of Rockefellers and Wanamakers and Carnegie himself and Ford presidents. 500 people he interviewed. Came up with this law of success. A lot of it is what you just articulated. God has given us natural laws. We either work with them or not if you want to be successful. What you are presenting ought to be intuitive, but they are logical laws of how things work. The laws of nature, the laws of human relationships. When we don’t have a sensitivity to how those work, then we don’t get the results we think we should.</p> <p>What he distilled out of those, he wrote lots of documents, but what he distilled were four major pieces. All those people had definiteness of purpose. You talk about purpose. They were very clear on their purpose. They were also very clear they brought value to people in what they were doing. Think of Thomas Edison, the most prolific inventor he ever heard of. He was so intent on inventing things to help people. They also gathered in a group that he determined to be a mastermind group, and they helped each other out. There was this community of people they work with. The last one was this thing about intention. There was no admission of failure. He said every failure there is a seed of a future success. Failure in my language is a rehearsal for success. It is a learning opportunity. Those are very similar to what you said. Napoleon Hill wrote a lot of things. People mistakenly think it’s about greed and money when really it’s about creating this position that you can influence people to create value that brings everyone benefits. I didn’t know if you knew about those writings. They are often misplaced and miscued to be greed when really it’s about what you just said. The way I have read it over the last 30 years.</p> <p>Any response to that?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> You hit two great points that are pivotal for me in my day to day. Professionally and personally. One is the idea and the concept of community. The fact of how important it is. We weren’t designed to be these lone soldiers. I know that our culture says, I don’t need, I can do all by myself, self-made, things of that nature. But we really are, not to just use terminology that has been thrown around, better together because that is how we were designed to be. I recognize whether I am talking about my core team I work with within our headquarter staff here in Lynchburg, whether I am talking about our staff that is all the way around the world, or our community of supporters. It is because of all of us working in harmony, community, having that unity, having that common purpose, keeping that common language in front of us that really makes us better. No matter how much I may be in the position of garnering funds down to this basic core of being a fundraiser, truly, if I don’t have intentional communication and unity with my operations staff, communications staff, finance, it’s not going to work. I am not going to be the best I can be, and they won’t either.</p> <p>Making sure, because that audience is just as important, thinking of my board. They are coming from different aspects. Those are volunteers. We think of board members and how much influence they have. They are volunteers, volunteering their time. One of the main things that you said that sparked with me that is an underlying current is keeping that community in the forefront of anything that we are doing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> But your board of directors is your mastermind group, if we would like them to be.</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> How do you interface with the board?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> I try to be as personal with them as I am with those who I sit shoulder to shoulder with within the office. Again, trying to get to know them, making no assumptions that because they have been a board member for 25 years, that they actually understand all of what is going on in the organization and the direction we are going in. it is so easy to get caught up in how we have done it. Sports Outreach is 30 years old. I started with them last June. This is the first time this organization has really been in a place of having formalized development, formalized fundraising, relationship cultivation. It’s been friend-raising to this point in time. Someone may know this snapshot about this organization, and may not realize they are part of an organization that is really reaching a much broader scope. That includes our board. It’s spending time and being intentional and picking up that phone, beyond an email, and saying, “I need 30 minutes of your time for me to tell you who the organization can best serve you. What are your passions beyond sitting at that board table?” We have a very active board, a very engaged board, but there are definitely those who are founding board members and who are a little stuck a couple years back, if not a decade or so back, to where the organization is, simply because someone hasn’t had that intentional conversation and allowed them to share where they are.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That never happens in any other board, you know.</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> I am glad to know we’re not alone.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I would say you are in really good company. It’s part of human nature. It’s people like you who inspire people to think out of the old box. Interfacing with the board is key for your position, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> It is. If I don’t have board support or understanding, they are introducing me to, when we go back to how I get those initial meetings or who am I sitting and talking to, what are those relationships that need to be cultivated, my board is key in opening those doors. If I don’t know them well enough and in turn they don’t know me well enough, they are not going to open those doors up. They will continue to come and sit around the table. We will sign some documents twice a year and move on. If that’s not the case when you sit down and have that one on one conversation with a board member outside of the round table and say, “How is the organization speaking to you? Where do you see our strengths?” opening that door to say, “Where are areas we need work?” Again, people want to be heard. The relationships that are built there are crucial. Recognizing that, especially as one who is coming in brand new to not only a position, but for all intents and purposes, I wasn’t replacing anyone. We were building. I need those to come around me to help build us together. I have received a lot of appreciation for that approach. I would not be one to be listed as traditional. I am outside of the box. We talk about the elephant in the room because he’s not going away even if we don’t talk about him. That’s how we get up and over and on to that next level. It makes some uncomfortable. No doubt. But we don’t just leave it there. That's where the difference is. You can open up a can and let it fly. It goes back to that intentionality of needing to deal with something, so let’s do this together.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m pointing out to listeners that the elephant in the room was a “he.”</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Yeah, I recognize that’s what I said.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I wasn’t going to let that slide by. It’s probably more true than not.</p> <p>There are boards that think when they have a person like you, they don’t have any work to do. What are the different components of your work? I’m thinking there is a teaching component, a team component, a prep component. What are some of the components that relate specifically with the board?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> You hit on a lot of them. The number one is teaching. They don’t take anything for granted that they just know. There is that idea of we know that this needs to happen. Why does it not just in our organization, but in my previous organization as well. The area of cultivating relationships, we know is important, and it’s people give to people, not to organizations. If we know it’s important to be able to have that groundwork, why does it most times come across as an afterthought to put someone in that role? It’s not because of the dollars and cents that go along with the role that I have, truly and honestly, especially when you are working in the area of as you said, we don’t like to use the term analogy “nonprofit,” but we do recognize that those dollars are crucial. How they come in and how they are being used and the impact we are making and the responsibility that we have with those dollars. Where the rub usually comes in or what makes people uncomfortable is what someone in my role brings to the table to say that we have to do. A lot of that is we have to do this together. It isn’t you get to come in twice a year and speak through a couple of agenda points and move on. There is an expectation that we are going to engage together. We are going to sit down together and meet with us. You won’t give me a list of names and say go. You’re going to share with me relationships that you have established, and we will do that together to a certain point because without you. I am just another person on the other end of the phone. It is that education component that I feel is most crucial with a board, especially an established board.</p> <p>Then there is the thinking outside of the box. We will only get what we have always gotten if we always do what we have always done. We have to do it differently if we want different outcomes. You want to have a board that is established and not feel they are flighty and all over the place. There is that danger of becoming complacent unintentionally if you just let it lie. There is that pushing component. I don’t know what the best terminology for that is. We do have to stay on the cutting edge. We do have to continue to see what are our constituency saying to us? Listen through their giving or their non-giving. Or they literally are speaking to us. They are writing back on- are we listening, or are we continuing to communicate what we want and we have always done a newsletter every month so we will keep going. Maybe we need to do a quarterly. Maybe we need a new format. Maybe we need more pictures. Maybe it is too wordy. If these are the things they are saying.</p> <p>Those two components, just within my first year, are the things I have spent most of my time with the board in presenting and showing credence to. Listening to them and giving pushback. Thankfully I have to say I have a board who has accepted that really well, even when we don’t all agree. But they have given me the opportunity to share, to listen. I don’t have all of the answers. But I have been in this industry for a while. The big thing is I have been who I am for 43 years. I recognize that really spending time with those who are like-minded and they want to share, spending time listening to what they are sharing and acting upon it, has the greatest impact.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This listening goes all the way around. It’s not just your donors. It’s your board members as well. I experience you as very direct in asking for what you need. That’s one reason I see that board members don’t perform on any level because they haven’t been asked to do so. Let’s ask them to do it, but let’s give them the skills and the documents. They need a one-sheet, or they will talk from a slide deck or the verbiage to open the door for you to come if there is a high-net-worth donor who wants to talk to the person in your seat.</p> <p>There is also a factor of what psychologists call money shadow. People don’t feel comfortable talking about money so they actually repel it. I find a lot of people say, “I am going to give you a name. Would you connect with us?” I don’t want to talk about money. There is something negative in talking about money. Do you know what I’m talking about?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> I do. I have heard it enough times from constituency, from our supporters who have said- Just last year, I was waiting to be asked. I needed someone to explain. I wanted someone to understand. Just waiting for the ask. We sit in conferences and hear these things and read blogs that say it, but I have actually experienced it. Waiting for the ask. To share that with a board member that this sphere that we have of they don’t want to be asked. It’s just the opposite.</p> <p>The other piece to it is the education of. It’s not going in haphazardly. We have a need, and we want you to meet the need here. Back to that intentional conversation. Where is their heart? What is their passion? We serve in a lot of different areas. Through this area of sports ministry, we are touching lives from child sponsorship to feeding programs to education to church planting. There is so much that outpours off the field we are serving that there is bound to be an area where we have to listen, and then you can make that presentation. Oh, they are selling a house. They are sending children off to college. Where are they? That will give you an opportunity to have an ask that is intentional. Again, they want that. I tell board members, and I tell other colleagues, and I have to remind myself of this: It is truly not an ask for dollars and cents – it is an invitation to make impact. That’s what it is. Everybody likes to be invited. Everybody likes to be invited. I want in on that party. That’s the way I walk into a conversation. If I feel like I’m coming after your wallet, then I don’t want to do that. Who wants that? We are going to clench that wallet or that purse so tightly because now you are trying to rob me. But if you are inviting me, I am ready to be a part of that. That is a mindset that has to be one that doesn’t just- cute little phrase to say. No I have to live that out. When I believe that, that’s why it is easy to go in and say, “Here’s an invitation, Mr. Walmart.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Those are really good words. So many good sound bites in this. There is a front end story telling before you meet the donor. There is also a back end after they have donated. We fail miserably here telling them what has happened with their money, telling them the story. You come up on the anniversary. Then when you ask for another donation, it’s a whole different ball game. How do you navigate that?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> The first thing after they have donated is make sure you don’t muddy the waters and you thank the supporter. We can’t mix all of these things together. There really is an opportunity to thank the donor for what they have done. Thank that supporter for how they have come alongside you, how they have deepened the relationship to accomplish that impact. They want to be appreciated. You want to be appreciated. I want to be appreciated. It’s built into our DNA. Making sure we don’t gloss over that with just a receipt letter saying we received these dollars, but actually saying thank you for the impact you have made. Thanking them. You’re right. If the next time they hear from us is the next time there is an invitation to give, and they don’t know what that last has actually done, I am quite convinced you will get another gift. It’s not going to be the gift that we could have gotten if we had actually shown, if they had become connected with the people on the other end of that gift and not just gotten stuck on the dollar and decimal.</p> <p>Those are the steps that come along the way is making sure they have that engagement piece and they know they can picture that coming across. Making it real to them. We have the opportunity within our organization to put our supporters on the field where they are serving and interact. That’s not for everyone. I recognize that. Whether it may be stage of life or financial component, just not a desire to travel internationally. But they still want to know. They still want to experience. That as a storyteller is a good portion of my job is making that as real for them through video, through photo, through my story from being on the ground myself. I just returned from El Salvador in July. I have been thoroughly excited, pulling my pictures together, throwing up on the slideshows as if I wanted to share with my family. This is what I was able to experience. Look at what we are doing. We collectively. Not Sports Outreach headquarters, Wendy Adams, chief relationship officer. What we are collectively doing and able to make impact and who we are touching. Families that are. Children that were getting drawn into gang violence and now have an option because there was no option before. That brings people to a point of wow, that’s happening? I am a part of that? Not only do I want to remain a part of that, but I also want to deepen that and share with others. All of a sudden, I have just extended my development team.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I am going to give you a chance to leave people with a parting thought. Before we do that, talk about the start from where you finished. What are some steps and a process to find, engage, present, secure the donation, and follow up? Can you give me some of the timeline steps in that timeline?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Yeah. I can try to do that in a concise manner here. Making sure that you’re comfortable, I am comfortable enough with my message, that I know who we are. Who am I? Who is Sports Outreach? What are we doing? What are we accomplishing? What is our mission so I can articulate that in a way that makes sense? When I have that opportunity to share, it’s being intentional with the time and with the person who I am with. Knowing about them, sharing that. That first meeting and getting to know them, make sure there is a follow-up. You immediately thank them for that time. That was the first gift they gave: the time to sit and listen and share. Following up with a thank-you there. We can’t out-thank. There is no over-thanking. You can’t. When it comes to a point of making that invitation to give, making sure that that is something that is connected to the supporter’s perspective, or established but you want them to go deeper. That is not something out of the clear blue just because the organization needs it.</p> <p>From that point, then we make sure we thank them for that gift. Again, going back to that thanking. Then taking those steps to make sure there is an intentionality of impact storytelling along the way. A blog comes through. They may not be an Internet person. That may not be the way. If they are like my mother, she will check every ten days. Print it off. Write a handwritten note, and throw it in that snail mail box so they can see this is the difference that we are making together. I can’t say thank you enough. Inviting them to share it with others. Don’t leave it out there as just well, they are going to do that. Invite them to do that. Remind them how important it is to get the word out that we celebrate this with others. At any opportunity to take them to another level and for each person, you have to have your notes because for each person, that next level is something different. Make sure we do have an intentional plan along the way of how we are going to continue to deepen our relationship.</p> <p>I know those are the steps that work. Honestly, if we think about it, and you said this before, those are the basics of human interaction. We could take the fundraising portion off the table. That is how we deepen the relationships one on one personally. Making sure those are touchpoints along the way. It won’t happen without that intentionality.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow, that’s a lot of really good information.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from Wordsprint*</p> <p>Wendy, you and I both know email has gotten pretty toxic. I took the weekend off, and after five days, I have 5,000 emails. I haven’t even started on them. If there is a crucial message in there, I am likely to miss it. That is a practical application.</p> <p>Wendy, I want to give you a chance to have a final word. What closing thought or challenge or idea would you like to leave with people today?</p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> I definitely want to be able to say we have been called, our community of nonprofit nonprofessionals to again do this work better together. We may recognize that we represent several organizations. But we are talking to a lot of the same people who have a lot of the same passion which we discussed earlier about leaving a legacy beyond themselves, beyond just what’s happening today. I think instead of really jockeying for position, I know here locally there are organizations and associations that bring us together as professionals in this area to learn from one another, to do exactly what we have done here today in sharing and recognizing that I don’t have all the answers and neither do you, but as we come together, that community that we were talking about, we can actually make deeper and further impact in our world and our time that we are living in now and for the future that is coming. My charge is recognizing that everything we are learning now and engaging around and doing in our present circumstance isn’t just for today. How can we build one another up to make this world a much better place for the time we are here? That is what I have learned significantly over the last seven years and really tried to have as that common line throughout my day-to-day as I am interacting and engaging with my clients and reminding each other of that.</p> <p>That is my parting word. Remember, work is not a four-letter word. Passion in everything that we do. Enjoy it. Enjoy it and embrace it. It’s something that we need to be intentional about reminding each other about. Today is my day. Tomorrow I might be in the depth of those 5,000 emails, and I will need that reminder. Let’s be that reminder for one another.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. Wendy Adams, Sports Outreach. Your wisdom far exceeds your years on this planet. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with our friends that listen to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em></p> <p><strong>Wendy:</strong> Thanks, Hugh.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>A New Approach to Decision Making for Nonprofits with Jim Dygert</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/a-new-approach-to-decision-making-for-nonprofits-with-jim-dygert</link>
      <description>A New Approach to Decision Making for Nonprofits with Jim Dygert
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. Russell, good day to you, sir.
 Russell Dennis: Happy Tuesday, the last Tuesday of August. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. We have a brilliant financial mind here today in the form of young Jim Dygert. He is going to talk to us about money, something some of us get a little uncomfortable with, but we always have to keep in mind.
 Hugh: Oh, Jim Dygert. Tell us about yourself please.
 Jim Dygert: Good day. I began a journey after college with a little operation called the U.S. Treasury Department. I scored very high in some adaptation skills that I had, which allowed me to move into what they call a systems analyst. As a systems analyst, I am looking for not only the repeated process steps inside of an organization or an activity, but I am also looking for the aberrations that are caused when things don’t work right. With that, I was advanced to be an examiner for the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which is a division of the U.S. Treasury. They’re charged with establishing the solvency and liquidity of our entire national banking system. When I was doing my work there, we were doing the things that ultimately are now considered stress test. The ability for a financial institution tor any organization to behave according to its mandate, its vision, and its mission, and its purpose such that it becomes sustainable. I learned the term “sustainability” long before it was applied to the green world of sustainable businesses beyond economics. I learned it from the standpoint of what we call triple bottom line and the ability for an operation to not only create cash flow in those organizations that do create cash flow, or to serve and store the cash flow so that it might be provided to it in the world efforts and the arena of, say, nonprofits, where there may be a grant or sponsors or contributors that are allowing those funds to be available to pursue a particular goal and vision or mission.
 In that process of learning systems dynamics and systems analysis and procedural process steps and mapping of flow of work force behaviors, ultimately in the last 15 or 20 years, the industry that’s applied to, I wanna say consulting, but not really, the work I do is not really consulting. It does give consul, and it does give a procedural step. We actually have built a non-technology-based, non-IT-based, non-software-based procedural process steps for risk mitigation. In effect, the decision-making skills that any organization needs to go through, whomever is stewarding the direction of that organization, needs to have a tool set for discerning and determining what are the best decisions to make. Now there is a lot of prior work we all say that we stand on the shoulders of giants who came before us. There is a lot of prior work in this industry. But no one has taken the position that we have, that we create what we call a mirror and complement to the chart of activities or the chart of accounts that is associated with financial statements. I think you’ll agree, and your audience is probably familiar with, financial statements.
 Whether it’s a personal solopreneur that needs to have a financial statement and does have one, or an enterprise or organization, whether they are for profit or whether they are not for profit, those financial statements are often the story that is told of the history of that organization’s activities. To be able to read that story is much like reading a language. Understanding the nuances of how those outcomes came to exist is the story which we dive into. We give the real practical, actionable, practitionable events that allows the decision-maker, again, whether it’s a solopreneur or all the way through to a larger organization. We have worked with very large organizations with more than 2,000 employees.
 The process works because it does what we would call- it goes beyond business process management. Some people may have heard of things like Adjul or Balanced Score Card or Sig Sigma or a whole arena of disciplines that approach and help to describe the inter-working relationships that go on inside of an organization because an organization is a living, breathing entity. It goes and lives in essence beyond the work force. It creates it. Hopefully it does. Whether it’s a proprietor who built something and some day steps away, because they have sold it or it grew up, we have worked with employee stock option programs where employees have purchased the operations that were created by an original founder. We have worked on mergers and acquisitions where a company is going to be absorbed by someone else or merges, and there is a cultural clash that goes on between them. Oftentimes, cultural clashes are merely an outcome of not sufficient information and not sufficient communications. There is a whole arena of work in that environment. We encapsulate that. We encapsulate financial literacy and mastery of financial statements, and we encapsulate this entire process of organizational behavior and created a mirror and complement to the chart of accounts that mirrors and complements what we call a chart of activities. When we do that, we get a true line of sight between the behavior inside the organization and the financial outcomes it produces. From there, we can create performance and projections.
 Hugh: Russell, what is that spark in your interest? You work in the financial area. What kind of interest does that spark by you?
 Russell: One of the keys to being able to make money in nonprofits is to tie a story to it. Money tells a story. As you said, it has a language of its own, and people can tie- I like that statement: chart of activities. It’s COA. In painting a picture for people that support you, it’s important to be able to talk about how what they’re contributing is making a difference or an impact in the lives of other people. Being able to follow that activity is important. As we teach here at SynerVision, the money should be tied to the plans. All of those numbers mean something. All of it has a place, as all of your activities have a place and should have a place. Unpack that a little bit for us. People will sit there and look at a chart of accounts and think of a budget. What is a good example of an account that becomes activity? If you were to take a certain set of items off of that chart of activities and relate it to a chart of accounts, what would those things be, and what kind of story would they tell?
 Jim: Sure, that is exactly what the process begins to do. We actually map those, and we end up with a value creation map. The value creation map is indicative of the collection of activities. It is not just usually a single person or a single node that ends up impacting the financial direction of the organization. Either the past, or if we intend to change its future. We are actually looking at that collection of things that may drive the results we are looking for. For instance, we may have in a nonprofit as you say the source of funds coming from an outside environment. We don’t have to have operational activities to drive source of funds the way a product or service company does. But we still have an activity that might be needed to raise funds or to maintain funds or to continuously create an additional flow of funds. That behavior activity, as a group of things that are done, end up being the driving factors that will of course show up instead of income like a for-profit company, it will show up in the direct revenue sourcing.
 Russell: This sounds like an interesting hybrid between a spreadsheet and a value proposition map, for example.
 Jim: Exactly. You’re capturing the concept of what this is. The process is rather definitive. We define the exact ways in which things are done in order to solicit and create the organizational alignment because as we all know, whether it’s a for-profit or nonprofit organization, if we don’t have alignment of vision, purpose, and mission, we don’t have the right contribution of human energy in order to get the things accomplished we need to, whether it’s run a particular campaign or do a particular event or maintain the back office in some way. We go through a process that first aligns people.
 Secondly, through that alignment process, there is a dissection or depiction by the individual parties of what are the value creation activities inside the organization that create a thrilled and delighted customer? We can use the term analogy “customer” in any vernacular we like. Who is our customer in this? Who is our customer in that? When we go through that process, we are looking for the hand-ups and hand-offs of the things that are going on, the action steps, the behaviors and activities that then can be mapped and charted and now because of that grouping and analysis work, we can find out what impact it has. If it’s on traditional financial statements or a nonprofit’s financial statement, now we can begin to tie that together. We have actually redefined what is called a KPI.
 People have heard of that: key performance indicator. When the KPIs were first identified and created, they had a very significant and purposeful meaning. Over the years, KPIs have slipped a little bit. The integrity of what a KPI is has been lost and is a minutiae almost inside of so many other disciplines. Sometimes today in a manufacturing world, a KPI company might be how many widgets we produce today, this week, or this month, or this quarter. Or how many cartons did we ship off the loading dock. Those are certainly performance indicators, but they are not what we call keyperformance indicators, and they are not master measures of what kinds of things are being done inside the organization. When I say how things are being done, not just what is being done.
 When we apply the process steps to which we derive key performance indicators, first of all, we are looking for an operational data point, something that we can demonstrably describe in an operational statement, and how is that measured against a financial data point, and that data point may show up in the financial statements. Once we have those two, now we are looking for discernment as to whether it’s historic activities are in line with where we want to take the direction of the organization, or they may not be, and what changes do we need to make in order to impact the future growth of the organization?
 There are some similarities in for-profits and nonprofits. Not always. But in some for-profit businesses, they have a board of directors. The board of directors may be implementing operational directives that the chief executive officer or a hired president may need to have as a mandate to move forward to directionalize the growth of that organization. It’s coming from the board. Similarly, nonprofits may have an operating manager or an ED or a managing director that is stewarding the direction of the organization, but they may also have a board that has some mandates to what the outcomes we are looking for are. As the decision-maker and the go-to process person, the president or the managing director, they have to make decisions regularly on what is the direction that the organization is going in. Is it consistent with the mandate? And it changes.
 Hugh: Russell opened up a good topic. I’m sorry, I thought that was a period, it was a comma. He opened up this fascinating topic, this channel. You have delved into the data. It is almost like a three-dimensional way of looking at a static document. I find that there is remarkable similarities in entrepreneurs, whether they are working for a for-profit or for-purpose enterprise. Virtually, the board of directors has financial oversight responsibility. Financial oversight and governance are the two big ones. Russell’s area of work is high-performance nonprofits that generate money. My work overlaps with that. Our work overlaps each other. It’s how we generate the culture of high performance.
 Jim, what occurs to me as you are explaining this, is the similarity is the people running the organization don’t really understand the numbers and what they mean. There is a fundamental lack of understanding of the balance sheet and the P&amp;L budget and they don’t really know what a cash flow projection could be used for. They also don't realize the metrics you are putting on the plate. You are measuring what we do, how we do it, but we also need to measure the results of what we are doing. That is the real meat. Speak in that direction a little bit. You are creating a whole new picture. We named this interview – I took the liberties in saying it’s “a new systems approach of financial decision-making for nonprofits.” What you are opening up is a whole new paradigm of how we, the governance of this organization, make effective financial decisions.
 Jim: Correct. Because it’s not just financial decisions. We have non-financial outcomes as well. That may be job satisfaction, enjoyment in what we do, the contribution of time and talent, besides the treasure people may be giving to a nonprofit or a for-purpose business activity. We are looking at that holistic approach from an operations- how does the grease move between the wheels? If we called the money the cash flow, the grease that moves between the wheels, how does it get there? Where does it go? How is it used? What decisions processes do we have to go through in order to implement change and/or growth and/or strategies that we wouldn’t otherwise be able to project forward without the understanding of how much grease there is, where it comes from, and where is it best used? Because this is a decision process tool to help discern the activities inside the organization that will drive the organization to where its intended destination is.
 A lot of budget process steps are analysis work to discern how much did we do last year, what is our deviation differences between the few years before and where we want to go? We set goals as dreams, as visions, as desires. We begin to move there. We don’t have the tools to stay on track. We don’t want that train to jump the track. We have to lay down the track in a way that is consistent with the activities of the past and consistent with our intended outcomes and set the mile posts and the signs on the track ahead to ensure that it stays on the track. If it starts to get off the track, which happens, how do we know it’s getting off the track before we derail it? Long before we have derailed it so that we can make sure we are staying on track and staying focused with our vision and purpose.
 You had it right, Hugh. This is like a three-dimensional view of a single-dimension financial statement. When a business operator looks at their financial statements, oftentimes, the individual who is running that organization or that entity has a little depth into it, has a second level view into it. But until that second-level view can be catalyzed and articulated to the other members of the organization, such that the other members have full unanimity and an understanding of what is happening inside the organization with the value creation activities that create a thrilled and delighted customer, all those things that begin to manifest and create the organization as an entity, that is your second level of depth.
 Your third level of depth is once that takes place, we need a loop back system. We need a way in which those activities are not only understood, but they are inculcated into a system in a way in which those behavior traits begin to manifest by everyone inside the organization. The deeper we take it through a work force environment, the more sustainable results that we can end up achieving. Believe me, the beauty of this is it’s not particularly hard or difficult. It’s not tech, and it’s not software. These are process activities that can take a very limited amount of time when we implement them in the strategy we have created.
 Hugh: Tag on that a minute that was a direction I was hoping to go. As you explained it, I am melting down here. This looks like it’s really hard. For Russell, it’s a piece of cake. For me, it sounds hard. Can you give- This is one thing you can implement without breaking a sweat.
 Jim: I will use an example where a chief financial officer or president of a company, a for-purpose organization, has a viewpoint of the operational activities of that endeavor. We begin to do a process map and let them unpack that tacit amount, that information we have in their head. How do we do this? How do we operate? When that is done, we usually go to the next key performer inside the organization. In a for-profit, sometimes that is a controller or a CPA or the CFO. We get their alignment. We get their vision of it. Once we get unanimity between the two, then we can begin to move that out into the next realm of responsibilities: senior teams, the core teams of a for-purpose organization.
 As that begins to become a real map, a real value creation activity map, now we begin to tie those things into, in their case, their financial statement, whatever that financial statement is. The system, we have used it for early-stage start-up organizations that are less than three years in operations, and it does have tremendous value, and we can get alignment. The best use of what we have accomplished is in larger organizations that have been established for a period of time and have a lot of working modules. There is a theory of domains that say in an ordered and in an unordered states. Ordered states are things like simple and complementary. Unordered are things like chaos and complex. We work in that world of simple and complexity. Because of that, every organization has intended activities. Therefore, we have a loop. Once we know there is intended activities, we have a loop. When we have a loop, we can define the elements that support that loop.
 If I can bring it back down to that working relationship for you to understand, Hugh, it is simply diagnosing the activities inside the organization. Looking for systems that are created. Some of the best activity that we have applied this to is there is a thing called the theory of constraints. If you constrain a volume of water and constrict it, you are going to reduce the amount of flow the water has. You may increase the speed, but potentially you are restricting that. When we applied this process using the theory of constraints, we are applying it to the aberrations in the system. Remember I said something about my background as a systems analyst of aberrations in systems. That is what we look for.
 When we apply it to an organization, we are looking for those things that just don’t connect well, the things we call disconnects and strengths and problematic areas. The things that keep people staying up late at night, those little worrisome areas that say, “I wish I could fix this.” This process begins to unpack and peel back the activities that create the process which are the intended outcomes. We define those unintended outcomes that are the consequences. Then we can reapply the same process to discern what are the intended outcomes we want and giving us the gauge point that behavior statement, data point, on top of a financial data point. Now we can begin to monitor and make sure the activities are what carry forward.
 We are a big believer in organizations should run under what we call non-directive leadership. We have gone through the development stage in organizations where directive leadership is command control, rank and file, orderly activities. I am not saying that’s being replaced. There is still a lot of need for the process steps that that has been built on. But in today’s environment, to become nimble and to be able to adept itself as a living entity in an environment that is also changing, the better you can encapsulate your living environment and ensure you are in command and control of that environment, means you can be nimble. Command and control in that sense means that you have diversified some authority and moved that authority down through the rank and file so that decisions can be made by people who have the responsibilities and then need the authority to make those decisions.
 We look at non-directive leadership in that the hierarchy of work force, be it up through managers and presidents, is all about red light, green light, or yellow light projects. The projects are being brought from the lower level and brought in as saying we believe this is a better way to accomplish what we intend to accomplish. Here is how we propose to change what we have happening to improve that process. Senior personnel will either then red light the process because it is not acceptable for whatever reasons, yellow light it with exceptions being like “I’ll green light it once you have these answers. We have to look at the system elsewhere and see where we have some aberrations that might take place,” or green light it, “You did a great job. We don’t see anywhere wrong with this. We have checked, and we believe you have a solution to a problem and this is the way to mitigate it. Our blessings. Implement this process.”
 Hugh: Russell, you are contemplating some of these themes. What is brewing in that good-looking shiny head of yours?
 Russell: A lot of people are jealous of my naturally curly hair, but we will save that for another episode.
 What I am thinking, because that is the third piece of building what I call a high-performance nonprofit, is staying on track. Having good tools to measure is critical. I am going to ask you about how you get around some of this overwhelm because as you talked about, these things can look overwhelming, especially to somebody who is in a small nonprofit. What I look to do, and I remember meeting a young man by the name of Brendan Brouchard who talked about creating tools. His theory was that they should be easy to access, understand, and use. I have some things that are not necessarily scientific, but it gives nonprofit leaders ways to measure things, just like a profile of a donor or a customer, very basic things. I find that with tools, if the tools kind of flow into the work that people are already doing, it becomes easier for them to actually access them and use them. I think there is a bit of resistance. I know you are working with larger systems. I can’t imagine how much you see.
 What I was going to ask you was because a lot of people, their eyes will glaze over. How do you break down this need in a way that people sort of get it and convince them that it’s really in their best interest to use it? There is that human resistance to things that look like they will take more effort than the benefits produced. How do you work around that? What are some good ways to talk to people, especially nonprofit leaders about the importance of this and some things they can do that don’t look so large and overwhelming?
 Jim: Good point. Here’s as simple as it can be. When we look at an organization, any kind, no matter its size or purpose, there are four major activities. We get all caught up in all kinds of strategy sessions, but there are four activities. There is sourcing and discerning who our client is, whatever that client is, for-purpose or for-profit. There is servicing and ensuring that that client, prospect, customer is cared for. There is research and development. Then there is back office.
 Our proposition in the way we have designed and created this simply follows those four arenas. When you look at your whole existence, and you discern yourself in those environments, now, yes, we can get into all kinds of permutations and chart of accounts and 300 line items and financial statements that come off as reams of data because it is a big organization. If we really step back and look at it and say what we are doing here, why are we doing this, what are those elements or arenas that say if we could encapsulate and roll up all those charts of accounts into categorical arenas, those are the four arenas we would find.
 It is possible to have other minor arenas. But our contention is that is not the focus and motivation of what the organization was intended to accomplish. It may have grown into some of those other arenas along the way. They can be carved out or pushed away or sold. Maybe they developed so deeply that it was a great idea, and it’s time for it to carve out or to break away and become its own existence. We’d have to nurture it and support it along the way. But when we look at those, at the aberrations and not the real content, we now are putting them in the right perspective, and we can stay focused on the right content in the right context so that we can actually create operational behavior. Intended organizational, operational behavior for intended outcomes.
 Russell: This is all very exciting stuff. Because you can get lost in the weeds with software and tools and what’s out there. When you are working with people, what would you say is the primary deliverable they get that they can take and use to, once this system is built, keep themselves on track?
 Jim: Perfect. Well asked. If we hold onto those four arenas, and you simply look at each of those arenas and give yourself four or five activities in each of those arenas that constitute the major activities of that arena, what are the most dominant things that go on in that arena? Whether it’s sourcing or profiling or understanding what our client perspective is, or whether it’s the supporting and product and service delivery, or whether it’s R&amp;D, or back office, if we looked at five or six major activities inside that organization, they will be able to map out for themselves. This could be a six-person organization. It doesn’t have to be 6,000. This can be a very small or ongoing activity. Once they begin to find that, now you are really fine-tuning who is doing the things. How many hats does somebody have to wear to get these done in a small organization? When we get into bigger ones, we are just carving them out and breaking them down deeper.
 We look at the chunk-it-up to the top. Look at it from that 10,000-foot view and simply understand the mechanics of what is going on. When you get those mechanics down, you can actually create a map. We call that the value creation map. Those are the four or six things in each arena that are done to make a thrilled and delighted customer.
 Russell: That is brilliant. At what point do they have a number of items in those four arenas, is an organization in danger of losing its effectiveness? Is there an optimum number of activities under each area? I’m certain probably that there are certain things that are most important to each one. What would you say an optimum number is in terms of the effective span of control and efficiency?
 Jim: I don’t know there is an absolute way to discern that because different things do different things. For us to look at things, whether it is a 6,000-employee organization or 60, we still maintain there is probably an optimum number to define for yourself. A master measure of defining, this is what we call, that leads to the KPI, that master measure is the pinnacle of activities, whether it encompasses several thousand people or just a few people underneath it. We do look for an optimum. When we build a chart of activities, we are looking for just 20-22 activities. That’s it. That constitute well over 98% of the activities inside the organization.
 Russell: I was just thinking about those KPIs. They are different for everybody, for every industry. Those KPIs, with a nonprofit, your donor, your funding sources, there are a lot of other people that help define what those are. The people that get your services. A lot of definition and customization.
 Jim: We also believe a KPI is something that expires over time. When we build a KPI, we are building the data point for the problem, the theory of constraints. We are building a data point over a financial outcome point. We are looking to improve that KPI to the point where the problem has been negated. It’s not a problem anymore. It’s gone away. Or another problem becomes more prevalent and more important. We rotate KPIs over time in having a history base of what those KPI measures are and maintaining an index of those. Now we have assessment tools of what we have done over time and what the process steps of the organization have been. It literally builds the generic environment that allows the organization to thrive and survive over time and be nimble moving into its future.
 Hugh: For some people who aren’t familiar with KPIs, give us an example of what some typical KPIs might be. As a group, we are looking at a staff, board, committees, volunteers in a for-purpose enterprise. As we look at the KPIs and the measurability of our processes and outcomes, it would seem that would be a way to engage the culture in a performance standard they have not otherwise envisioned.
 Jim: Sure. Let’s use something that has typically been done, and is probably done regularly still, in a for-purpose organization. Let’s say they do something called a fundraiser. They are doing an activity. I don’t care if it’s a 5k run or a pie-eating contest. They have done this before. They know what they are likely to redo again this next season. They are planning for it. In their planning steps, they begin to find out how many people do we have to do this, how many people do we have to do that, how many things do we have to do. The KPI in that activity would be something more along the lines of do we have the punch list created for what we need to accomplish? Surprisingly enough, that simple activity is usually where most of our consult ends up being and mentoring being when someone is failing at an activity. Are you doing the basic block and tackling? If we can now say we need to have an overall planning strategy that constitutes the punch list necessary that defines all the activities before we go in and assign activities, we need to make sure we have a reconcilable document effectively that says now we know how many we are going to assign for this and for that. Now we have a better predictability of the results happening the way we had intended. Now we can define that against the outcome which is how much did we accrue that day or weekend or five-day event?
 That seems rudimentary. But it does give you an idea that we are looking at a facts of activities. Not the who, not necessarily the what, but about the how. Are we defining the how clearly enough that we can answer it so that we can provide the who that ends up coming out to be the what? In a for-profit business, it could be as simple, and in a for-purpose business, let’s say we are not having good success in driving traffic to our website, and we don’t have a good conversion rate. People are not hitting our landing page; it’s not doing well. Do we have an overall master plan that includes the process steps associated with all the right things necessary to make that work? Or did we just venture into it with a hope, a wish, a dream, a desire to have this outcome? It might sound like tediousness, but we are not talking about the actual things that need to be done. We are talking about defining what needs to be done. Once you define what needs to be done, now you can have the measurement tool to say are we doing that?
 Hugh: Let’s connect the dots. What Russ and I are good at is creating the strategy and a strategic plan, what we call in SynerVision a solution map. It’s fundamentally the same. Where do you want to be, and how are you going to get there? Subsets of that, we have milestones that have price tags on them. We have to generate funding for those. We have a marketing channel – we have to let people know what we are doing so they will fund us. The people who attend our events, the people we want on our board or committees, know what we are doing.
 We are coming to the last ten minutes here. Give a short answer here, and then we will have a wrap and you will get the final tip before we cut loose this interview today. How do we connect all those different parts?
 Jim: How do we connect them? That was the question.
 Hugh: Your tool providing, is it a way to take what we think we want to do on paper, what we actually want to do, and integrating it. Does your process help us connect those dots?
 Jim: Yeah. In that we are looking at the actual activities that are being performed today. A little bit of what you were describing was a proactive going-to-do thing. Did I garner that a little bit when you said if you looked at the strategy, we want this to happen so we have to budget for it? We are applying it in the realm of is that activity working now? Because if it is, that is how we are applying our systematic approach. If it’s not working now, that becomes hypothetical. It only allows us to accept the framework, but we don’t have the loopback in the financial outcomes yet. In our environment, for what we are doing, we have to have the loop back. It’s a quad-loop activity instead of a dual loop or a triple loop. By the time we get done, we have to have that connectability between operations and the outcomes.
 Hugh: That’s missing often, isn’t it?
 Jim: If it’s an ongoing organization, it’s there. If it is an early-stage start-up or brand new or doesn’t have enough history to it, it is extremely difficult to tie this together. We can do theory, and we can get people to understand. They can adapt the process steps that allows for the alignment to take place. That vision forward, that alignment that goes on. That’s good. But in order to create the line of sight reconcilement to the financial statements, if there is none that exists, or it’s too early stage, we don’t have that history yet.
 Russell: That’s why I built that four steps to performing a high-performance nonprofit course because you have to start somewhere. You have to begin where you are. By having some tools that you can take and start tracking certain things, you can build that history. It’s important to build that history. If you are talking about a start-up and you have probably come across some that are looking at raising large amounts of money, it’s critical to have that system in place, I would think.
 Jim: It’s about the source and use of funds. If we go back to that value map, and we go back to 20-22 activities within those four arenas, anybody can do that. Start-ups can do it. Early-stage developments can do it. Ongoing activities that haven’t had a huge history yet, anybody can do that. When you step back and look at and get real about if this is what we are doing here, now that you can begin to do that, you will channel the activities, that precious time, and that precious talent that is wanting to support that idea, concept, or project that is being launched, now can devote their attentions to the right things and minimize those things that might be important but are not critical. Now we can spend energy and time in the right things.
 Hugh: Russell, I bet you’re thinking what I'm thinking is that these things are highlighting some of the things that donors want to know about.
 Russell: When somebody comes to you, somebody may be listening here, and we hope people get listening here get value out of it. That’s why we do this work. It’s very important. When somebody approaches you and says, Okay, well, I think I understand in theory why I need this. Where do I start? Where is it that you tell them to start? Or you begin the process so that they can move in the direction of implementing this system.
 Jim: Again, working from the inside out, we start with the chief steward of the organization. Whoever is the responsible party for making the focused decisions of what to do here. We interview them and have them unpack that story that is that chart of activities, those 20-22 activities inside those four areas. Once we unpack that, we begin to hone it a bit. More importantly, since we are not really ever talking to people who are solopreneurs, someone who has a few people around them, we begin to go to the next responsible party. Without the answers provided by the first, we allow them to do the process maps themselves. Then we begin to get the alignment. When we get the alignment, now we begin to say where is our energy and time? As that system begins to manifest out into larger circles, from that alignment process, once we have alignment, we can begin to make measure. Depending on what we are measuring against, whether it’s the history of the story and the financials or whether it’s what our intended outcomes are, now we can at least begin to apply it.
 Hugh: A lot of good intentions. This backs it out with some tracking. I think this is an energy field where people understand what’s going on, and it begins to build the collaborative energy in the organization.
 Your website is Management Operating Systems, MOSUpgrade.com. Spell out the word “upgrade.” People can find out more there and contact you at that site.
 *Sponsor message from Rock Paper Simple and SynerVision Leadership*
 Jim, what do you want to leave people with today?
 Jim: Because of the nature of your questions, I know you wanted me to simplify this. I believe we have. I may not have explained it quite that well, from the standpoint of it’s very, a professional can do things that look so simple. When we take a look at your organizational activities, we really do look at the complexity of every organization, but we simplify it.
 If I can leave one message behind, it is that this ain’t so hard. This ain’t so hard. As I said, we built it on the shoulders of giants. There is a lot of research and data behind this that proves the process and theory. We have some practical demonstrations of outcomes that have worked for some good-sized organizations.
 MOSUpgrade, which is Management Operating Systems, Upgrade.com. You can find me there listed as one of the team members. We do have an organization to implement this with some specialized talents.
 Directly, people can contact me easily on JimDygert@zoho.com. Love to be able to walk some people through this. Our real challenge is to find people who have a real desire to impact and are having some difficulty making that happen.
 Hugh: Russell, let’s say goodbye.
 Russell: Jim, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you very much. It’s always important to measure what you’re doing. It’s not rocket science. Contact Jim. Go to SynerVisionLeadership.org or RussellDennis.com, and there are tools for you to do all of these things. Many thanks again.
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      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7c5e5cb8-b329-11eb-9f0f-739a9fa3f2c1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>There's More to Decisions than Normally Expected</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>A New Approach to Decision Making for Nonprofits with Jim Dygert
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. Russell, good day to you, sir.
 Russell Dennis: Happy Tuesday, the last Tuesday of August. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. We have a brilliant financial mind here today in the form of young Jim Dygert. He is going to talk to us about money, something some of us get a little uncomfortable with, but we always have to keep in mind.
 Hugh: Oh, Jim Dygert. Tell us about yourself please.
 Jim Dygert: Good day. I began a journey after college with a little operation called the U.S. Treasury Department. I scored very high in some adaptation skills that I had, which allowed me to move into what they call a systems analyst. As a systems analyst, I am looking for not only the repeated process steps inside of an organization or an activity, but I am also looking for the aberrations that are caused when things don’t work right. With that, I was advanced to be an examiner for the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which is a division of the U.S. Treasury. They’re charged with establishing the solvency and liquidity of our entire national banking system. When I was doing my work there, we were doing the things that ultimately are now considered stress test. The ability for a financial institution tor any organization to behave according to its mandate, its vision, and its mission, and its purpose such that it becomes sustainable. I learned the term “sustainability” long before it was applied to the green world of sustainable businesses beyond economics. I learned it from the standpoint of what we call triple bottom line and the ability for an operation to not only create cash flow in those organizations that do create cash flow, or to serve and store the cash flow so that it might be provided to it in the world efforts and the arena of, say, nonprofits, where there may be a grant or sponsors or contributors that are allowing those funds to be available to pursue a particular goal and vision or mission.
 In that process of learning systems dynamics and systems analysis and procedural process steps and mapping of flow of work force behaviors, ultimately in the last 15 or 20 years, the industry that’s applied to, I wanna say consulting, but not really, the work I do is not really consulting. It does give consul, and it does give a procedural step. We actually have built a non-technology-based, non-IT-based, non-software-based procedural process steps for risk mitigation. In effect, the decision-making skills that any organization needs to go through, whomever is stewarding the direction of that organization, needs to have a tool set for discerning and determining what are the best decisions to make. Now there is a lot of prior work we all say that we stand on the shoulders of giants who came before us. There is a lot of prior work in this industry. But no one has taken the position that we have, that we create what we call a mirror and complement to the chart of activities or the chart of accounts that is associated with financial statements. I think you’ll agree, and your audience is probably familiar with, financial statements.
 Whether it’s a personal solopreneur that needs to have a financial statement and does have one, or an enterprise or organization, whether they are for profit or whether they are not for profit, those financial statements are often the story that is told of the history of that organization’s activities. To be able to read that story is much like reading a language. Understanding the nuances of how those outcomes came to exist is the story which we dive into. We give the real practical, actionable, practitionable events that allows the decision-maker, again, whether it’s a solopreneur or all the way through to a larger organization. We have worked with very large organizations with more than 2,000 employees.
 The process works because it does what we would call- it goes beyond business process management. Some people may have heard of things like Adjul or Balanced Score Card or Sig Sigma or a whole arena of disciplines that approach and help to describe the inter-working relationships that go on inside of an organization because an organization is a living, breathing entity. It goes and lives in essence beyond the work force. It creates it. Hopefully it does. Whether it’s a proprietor who built something and some day steps away, because they have sold it or it grew up, we have worked with employee stock option programs where employees have purchased the operations that were created by an original founder. We have worked on mergers and acquisitions where a company is going to be absorbed by someone else or merges, and there is a cultural clash that goes on between them. Oftentimes, cultural clashes are merely an outcome of not sufficient information and not sufficient communications. There is a whole arena of work in that environment. We encapsulate that. We encapsulate financial literacy and mastery of financial statements, and we encapsulate this entire process of organizational behavior and created a mirror and complement to the chart of accounts that mirrors and complements what we call a chart of activities. When we do that, we get a true line of sight between the behavior inside the organization and the financial outcomes it produces. From there, we can create performance and projections.
 Hugh: Russell, what is that spark in your interest? You work in the financial area. What kind of interest does that spark by you?
 Russell: One of the keys to being able to make money in nonprofits is to tie a story to it. Money tells a story. As you said, it has a language of its own, and people can tie- I like that statement: chart of activities. It’s COA. In painting a picture for people that support you, it’s important to be able to talk about how what they’re contributing is making a difference or an impact in the lives of other people. Being able to follow that activity is important. As we teach here at SynerVision, the money should be tied to the plans. All of those numbers mean something. All of it has a place, as all of your activities have a place and should have a place. Unpack that a little bit for us. People will sit there and look at a chart of accounts and think of a budget. What is a good example of an account that becomes activity? If you were to take a certain set of items off of that chart of activities and relate it to a chart of accounts, what would those things be, and what kind of story would they tell?
 Jim: Sure, that is exactly what the process begins to do. We actually map those, and we end up with a value creation map. The value creation map is indicative of the collection of activities. It is not just usually a single person or a single node that ends up impacting the financial direction of the organization. Either the past, or if we intend to change its future. We are actually looking at that collection of things that may drive the results we are looking for. For instance, we may have in a nonprofit as you say the source of funds coming from an outside environment. We don’t have to have operational activities to drive source of funds the way a product or service company does. But we still have an activity that might be needed to raise funds or to maintain funds or to continuously create an additional flow of funds. That behavior activity, as a group of things that are done, end up being the driving factors that will of course show up instead of income like a for-profit company, it will show up in the direct revenue sourcing.
 Russell: This sounds like an interesting hybrid between a spreadsheet and a value proposition map, for example.
 Jim: Exactly. You’re capturing the concept of what this is. The process is rather definitive. We define the exact ways in which things are done in order to solicit and create the organizational alignment because as we all know, whether it’s a for-profit or nonprofit organization, if we don’t have alignment of vision, purpose, and mission, we don’t have the right contribution of human energy in order to get the things accomplished we need to, whether it’s run a particular campaign or do a particular event or maintain the back office in some way. We go through a process that first aligns people.
 Secondly, through that alignment process, there is a dissection or depiction by the individual parties of what are the value creation activities inside the organization that create a thrilled and delighted customer? We can use the term analogy “customer” in any vernacular we like. Who is our customer in this? Who is our customer in that? When we go through that process, we are looking for the hand-ups and hand-offs of the things that are going on, the action steps, the behaviors and activities that then can be mapped and charted and now because of that grouping and analysis work, we can find out what impact it has. If it’s on traditional financial statements or a nonprofit’s financial statement, now we can begin to tie that together. We have actually redefined what is called a KPI.
 People have heard of that: key performance indicator. When the KPIs were first identified and created, they had a very significant and purposeful meaning. Over the years, KPIs have slipped a little bit. The integrity of what a KPI is has been lost and is a minutiae almost inside of so many other disciplines. Sometimes today in a manufacturing world, a KPI company might be how many widgets we produce today, this week, or this month, or this quarter. Or how many cartons did we ship off the loading dock. Those are certainly performance indicators, but they are not what we call keyperformance indicators, and they are not master measures of what kinds of things are being done inside the organization. When I say how things are being done, not just what is being done.
 When we apply the process steps to which we derive key performance indicators, first of all, we are looking for an operational data point, something that we can demonstrably describe in an operational statement, and how is that measured against a financial data point, and that data point may show up in the financial statements. Once we have those two, now we are looking for discernment as to whether it’s historic activities are in line with where we want to take the direction of the organization, or they may not be, and what changes do we need to make in order to impact the future growth of the organization?
 There are some similarities in for-profits and nonprofits. Not always. But in some for-profit businesses, they have a board of directors. The board of directors may be implementing operational directives that the chief executive officer or a hired president may need to have as a mandate to move forward to directionalize the growth of that organization. It’s coming from the board. Similarly, nonprofits may have an operating manager or an ED or a managing director that is stewarding the direction of the organization, but they may also have a board that has some mandates to what the outcomes we are looking for are. As the decision-maker and the go-to process person, the president or the managing director, they have to make decisions regularly on what is the direction that the organization is going in. Is it consistent with the mandate? And it changes.
 Hugh: Russell opened up a good topic. I’m sorry, I thought that was a period, it was a comma. He opened up this fascinating topic, this channel. You have delved into the data. It is almost like a three-dimensional way of looking at a static document. I find that there is remarkable similarities in entrepreneurs, whether they are working for a for-profit or for-purpose enterprise. Virtually, the board of directors has financial oversight responsibility. Financial oversight and governance are the two big ones. Russell’s area of work is high-performance nonprofits that generate money. My work overlaps with that. Our work overlaps each other. It’s how we generate the culture of high performance.
 Jim, what occurs to me as you are explaining this, is the similarity is the people running the organization don’t really understand the numbers and what they mean. There is a fundamental lack of understanding of the balance sheet and the P&amp;L budget and they don’t really know what a cash flow projection could be used for. They also don't realize the metrics you are putting on the plate. You are measuring what we do, how we do it, but we also need to measure the results of what we are doing. That is the real meat. Speak in that direction a little bit. You are creating a whole new picture. We named this interview – I took the liberties in saying it’s “a new systems approach of financial decision-making for nonprofits.” What you are opening up is a whole new paradigm of how we, the governance of this organization, make effective financial decisions.
 Jim: Correct. Because it’s not just financial decisions. We have non-financial outcomes as well. That may be job satisfaction, enjoyment in what we do, the contribution of time and talent, besides the treasure people may be giving to a nonprofit or a for-purpose business activity. We are looking at that holistic approach from an operations- how does the grease move between the wheels? If we called the money the cash flow, the grease that moves between the wheels, how does it get there? Where does it go? How is it used? What decisions processes do we have to go through in order to implement change and/or growth and/or strategies that we wouldn’t otherwise be able to project forward without the understanding of how much grease there is, where it comes from, and where is it best used? Because this is a decision process tool to help discern the activities inside the organization that will drive the organization to where its intended destination is.
 A lot of budget process steps are analysis work to discern how much did we do last year, what is our deviation differences between the few years before and where we want to go? We set goals as dreams, as visions, as desires. We begin to move there. We don’t have the tools to stay on track. We don’t want that train to jump the track. We have to lay down the track in a way that is consistent with the activities of the past and consistent with our intended outcomes and set the mile posts and the signs on the track ahead to ensure that it stays on the track. If it starts to get off the track, which happens, how do we know it’s getting off the track before we derail it? Long before we have derailed it so that we can make sure we are staying on track and staying focused with our vision and purpose.
 You had it right, Hugh. This is like a three-dimensional view of a single-dimension financial statement. When a business operator looks at their financial statements, oftentimes, the individual who is running that organization or that entity has a little depth into it, has a second level view into it. But until that second-level view can be catalyzed and articulated to the other members of the organization, such that the other members have full unanimity and an understanding of what is happening inside the organization with the value creation activities that create a thrilled and delighted customer, all those things that begin to manifest and create the organization as an entity, that is your second level of depth.
 Your third level of depth is once that takes place, we need a loop back system. We need a way in which those activities are not only understood, but they are inculcated into a system in a way in which those behavior traits begin to manifest by everyone inside the organization. The deeper we take it through a work force environment, the more sustainable results that we can end up achieving. Believe me, the beauty of this is it’s not particularly hard or difficult. It’s not tech, and it’s not software. These are process activities that can take a very limited amount of time when we implement them in the strategy we have created.
 Hugh: Tag on that a minute that was a direction I was hoping to go. As you explained it, I am melting down here. This looks like it’s really hard. For Russell, it’s a piece of cake. For me, it sounds hard. Can you give- This is one thing you can implement without breaking a sweat.
 Jim: I will use an example where a chief financial officer or president of a company, a for-purpose organization, has a viewpoint of the operational activities of that endeavor. We begin to do a process map and let them unpack that tacit amount, that information we have in their head. How do we do this? How do we operate? When that is done, we usually go to the next key performer inside the organization. In a for-profit, sometimes that is a controller or a CPA or the CFO. We get their alignment. We get their vision of it. Once we get unanimity between the two, then we can begin to move that out into the next realm of responsibilities: senior teams, the core teams of a for-purpose organization.
 As that begins to become a real map, a real value creation activity map, now we begin to tie those things into, in their case, their financial statement, whatever that financial statement is. The system, we have used it for early-stage start-up organizations that are less than three years in operations, and it does have tremendous value, and we can get alignment. The best use of what we have accomplished is in larger organizations that have been established for a period of time and have a lot of working modules. There is a theory of domains that say in an ordered and in an unordered states. Ordered states are things like simple and complementary. Unordered are things like chaos and complex. We work in that world of simple and complexity. Because of that, every organization has intended activities. Therefore, we have a loop. Once we know there is intended activities, we have a loop. When we have a loop, we can define the elements that support that loop.
 If I can bring it back down to that working relationship for you to understand, Hugh, it is simply diagnosing the activities inside the organization. Looking for systems that are created. Some of the best activity that we have applied this to is there is a thing called the theory of constraints. If you constrain a volume of water and constrict it, you are going to reduce the amount of flow the water has. You may increase the speed, but potentially you are restricting that. When we applied this process using the theory of constraints, we are applying it to the aberrations in the system. Remember I said something about my background as a systems analyst of aberrations in systems. That is what we look for.
 When we apply it to an organization, we are looking for those things that just don’t connect well, the things we call disconnects and strengths and problematic areas. The things that keep people staying up late at night, those little worrisome areas that say, “I wish I could fix this.” This process begins to unpack and peel back the activities that create the process which are the intended outcomes. We define those unintended outcomes that are the consequences. Then we can reapply the same process to discern what are the intended outcomes we want and giving us the gauge point that behavior statement, data point, on top of a financial data point. Now we can begin to monitor and make sure the activities are what carry forward.
 We are a big believer in organizations should run under what we call non-directive leadership. We have gone through the development stage in organizations where directive leadership is command control, rank and file, orderly activities. I am not saying that’s being replaced. There is still a lot of need for the process steps that that has been built on. But in today’s environment, to become nimble and to be able to adept itself as a living entity in an environment that is also changing, the better you can encapsulate your living environment and ensure you are in command and control of that environment, means you can be nimble. Command and control in that sense means that you have diversified some authority and moved that authority down through the rank and file so that decisions can be made by people who have the responsibilities and then need the authority to make those decisions.
 We look at non-directive leadership in that the hierarchy of work force, be it up through managers and presidents, is all about red light, green light, or yellow light projects. The projects are being brought from the lower level and brought in as saying we believe this is a better way to accomplish what we intend to accomplish. Here is how we propose to change what we have happening to improve that process. Senior personnel will either then red light the process because it is not acceptable for whatever reasons, yellow light it with exceptions being like “I’ll green light it once you have these answers. We have to look at the system elsewhere and see where we have some aberrations that might take place,” or green light it, “You did a great job. We don’t see anywhere wrong with this. We have checked, and we believe you have a solution to a problem and this is the way to mitigate it. Our blessings. Implement this process.”
 Hugh: Russell, you are contemplating some of these themes. What is brewing in that good-looking shiny head of yours?
 Russell: A lot of people are jealous of my naturally curly hair, but we will save that for another episode.
 What I am thinking, because that is the third piece of building what I call a high-performance nonprofit, is staying on track. Having good tools to measure is critical. I am going to ask you about how you get around some of this overwhelm because as you talked about, these things can look overwhelming, especially to somebody who is in a small nonprofit. What I look to do, and I remember meeting a young man by the name of Brendan Brouchard who talked about creating tools. His theory was that they should be easy to access, understand, and use. I have some things that are not necessarily scientific, but it gives nonprofit leaders ways to measure things, just like a profile of a donor or a customer, very basic things. I find that with tools, if the tools kind of flow into the work that people are already doing, it becomes easier for them to actually access them and use them. I think there is a bit of resistance. I know you are working with larger systems. I can’t imagine how much you see.
 What I was going to ask you was because a lot of people, their eyes will glaze over. How do you break down this need in a way that people sort of get it and convince them that it’s really in their best interest to use it? There is that human resistance to things that look like they will take more effort than the benefits produced. How do you work around that? What are some good ways to talk to people, especially nonprofit leaders about the importance of this and some things they can do that don’t look so large and overwhelming?
 Jim: Good point. Here’s as simple as it can be. When we look at an organization, any kind, no matter its size or purpose, there are four major activities. We get all caught up in all kinds of strategy sessions, but there are four activities. There is sourcing and discerning who our client is, whatever that client is, for-purpose or for-profit. There is servicing and ensuring that that client, prospect, customer is cared for. There is research and development. Then there is back office.
 Our proposition in the way we have designed and created this simply follows those four arenas. When you look at your whole existence, and you discern yourself in those environments, now, yes, we can get into all kinds of permutations and chart of accounts and 300 line items and financial statements that come off as reams of data because it is a big organization. If we really step back and look at it and say what we are doing here, why are we doing this, what are those elements or arenas that say if we could encapsulate and roll up all those charts of accounts into categorical arenas, those are the four arenas we would find.
 It is possible to have other minor arenas. But our contention is that is not the focus and motivation of what the organization was intended to accomplish. It may have grown into some of those other arenas along the way. They can be carved out or pushed away or sold. Maybe they developed so deeply that it was a great idea, and it’s time for it to carve out or to break away and become its own existence. We’d have to nurture it and support it along the way. But when we look at those, at the aberrations and not the real content, we now are putting them in the right perspective, and we can stay focused on the right content in the right context so that we can actually create operational behavior. Intended organizational, operational behavior for intended outcomes.
 Russell: This is all very exciting stuff. Because you can get lost in the weeds with software and tools and what’s out there. When you are working with people, what would you say is the primary deliverable they get that they can take and use to, once this system is built, keep themselves on track?
 Jim: Perfect. Well asked. If we hold onto those four arenas, and you simply look at each of those arenas and give yourself four or five activities in each of those arenas that constitute the major activities of that arena, what are the most dominant things that go on in that arena? Whether it’s sourcing or profiling or understanding what our client perspective is, or whether it’s the supporting and product and service delivery, or whether it’s R&amp;D, or back office, if we looked at five or six major activities inside that organization, they will be able to map out for themselves. This could be a six-person organization. It doesn’t have to be 6,000. This can be a very small or ongoing activity. Once they begin to find that, now you are really fine-tuning who is doing the things. How many hats does somebody have to wear to get these done in a small organization? When we get into bigger ones, we are just carving them out and breaking them down deeper.
 We look at the chunk-it-up to the top. Look at it from that 10,000-foot view and simply understand the mechanics of what is going on. When you get those mechanics down, you can actually create a map. We call that the value creation map. Those are the four or six things in each arena that are done to make a thrilled and delighted customer.
 Russell: That is brilliant. At what point do they have a number of items in those four arenas, is an organization in danger of losing its effectiveness? Is there an optimum number of activities under each area? I’m certain probably that there are certain things that are most important to each one. What would you say an optimum number is in terms of the effective span of control and efficiency?
 Jim: I don’t know there is an absolute way to discern that because different things do different things. For us to look at things, whether it is a 6,000-employee organization or 60, we still maintain there is probably an optimum number to define for yourself. A master measure of defining, this is what we call, that leads to the KPI, that master measure is the pinnacle of activities, whether it encompasses several thousand people or just a few people underneath it. We do look for an optimum. When we build a chart of activities, we are looking for just 20-22 activities. That’s it. That constitute well over 98% of the activities inside the organization.
 Russell: I was just thinking about those KPIs. They are different for everybody, for every industry. Those KPIs, with a nonprofit, your donor, your funding sources, there are a lot of other people that help define what those are. The people that get your services. A lot of definition and customization.
 Jim: We also believe a KPI is something that expires over time. When we build a KPI, we are building the data point for the problem, the theory of constraints. We are building a data point over a financial outcome point. We are looking to improve that KPI to the point where the problem has been negated. It’s not a problem anymore. It’s gone away. Or another problem becomes more prevalent and more important. We rotate KPIs over time in having a history base of what those KPI measures are and maintaining an index of those. Now we have assessment tools of what we have done over time and what the process steps of the organization have been. It literally builds the generic environment that allows the organization to thrive and survive over time and be nimble moving into its future.
 Hugh: For some people who aren’t familiar with KPIs, give us an example of what some typical KPIs might be. As a group, we are looking at a staff, board, committees, volunteers in a for-purpose enterprise. As we look at the KPIs and the measurability of our processes and outcomes, it would seem that would be a way to engage the culture in a performance standard they have not otherwise envisioned.
 Jim: Sure. Let’s use something that has typically been done, and is probably done regularly still, in a for-purpose organization. Let’s say they do something called a fundraiser. They are doing an activity. I don’t care if it’s a 5k run or a pie-eating contest. They have done this before. They know what they are likely to redo again this next season. They are planning for it. In their planning steps, they begin to find out how many people do we have to do this, how many people do we have to do that, how many things do we have to do. The KPI in that activity would be something more along the lines of do we have the punch list created for what we need to accomplish? Surprisingly enough, that simple activity is usually where most of our consult ends up being and mentoring being when someone is failing at an activity. Are you doing the basic block and tackling? If we can now say we need to have an overall planning strategy that constitutes the punch list necessary that defines all the activities before we go in and assign activities, we need to make sure we have a reconcilable document effectively that says now we know how many we are going to assign for this and for that. Now we have a better predictability of the results happening the way we had intended. Now we can define that against the outcome which is how much did we accrue that day or weekend or five-day event?
 That seems rudimentary. But it does give you an idea that we are looking at a facts of activities. Not the who, not necessarily the what, but about the how. Are we defining the how clearly enough that we can answer it so that we can provide the who that ends up coming out to be the what? In a for-profit business, it could be as simple, and in a for-purpose business, let’s say we are not having good success in driving traffic to our website, and we don’t have a good conversion rate. People are not hitting our landing page; it’s not doing well. Do we have an overall master plan that includes the process steps associated with all the right things necessary to make that work? Or did we just venture into it with a hope, a wish, a dream, a desire to have this outcome? It might sound like tediousness, but we are not talking about the actual things that need to be done. We are talking about defining what needs to be done. Once you define what needs to be done, now you can have the measurement tool to say are we doing that?
 Hugh: Let’s connect the dots. What Russ and I are good at is creating the strategy and a strategic plan, what we call in SynerVision a solution map. It’s fundamentally the same. Where do you want to be, and how are you going to get there? Subsets of that, we have milestones that have price tags on them. We have to generate funding for those. We have a marketing channel – we have to let people know what we are doing so they will fund us. The people who attend our events, the people we want on our board or committees, know what we are doing.
 We are coming to the last ten minutes here. Give a short answer here, and then we will have a wrap and you will get the final tip before we cut loose this interview today. How do we connect all those different parts?
 Jim: How do we connect them? That was the question.
 Hugh: Your tool providing, is it a way to take what we think we want to do on paper, what we actually want to do, and integrating it. Does your process help us connect those dots?
 Jim: Yeah. In that we are looking at the actual activities that are being performed today. A little bit of what you were describing was a proactive going-to-do thing. Did I garner that a little bit when you said if you looked at the strategy, we want this to happen so we have to budget for it? We are applying it in the realm of is that activity working now? Because if it is, that is how we are applying our systematic approach. If it’s not working now, that becomes hypothetical. It only allows us to accept the framework, but we don’t have the loopback in the financial outcomes yet. In our environment, for what we are doing, we have to have the loop back. It’s a quad-loop activity instead of a dual loop or a triple loop. By the time we get done, we have to have that connectability between operations and the outcomes.
 Hugh: That’s missing often, isn’t it?
 Jim: If it’s an ongoing organization, it’s there. If it is an early-stage start-up or brand new or doesn’t have enough history to it, it is extremely difficult to tie this together. We can do theory, and we can get people to understand. They can adapt the process steps that allows for the alignment to take place. That vision forward, that alignment that goes on. That’s good. But in order to create the line of sight reconcilement to the financial statements, if there is none that exists, or it’s too early stage, we don’t have that history yet.
 Russell: That’s why I built that four steps to performing a high-performance nonprofit course because you have to start somewhere. You have to begin where you are. By having some tools that you can take and start tracking certain things, you can build that history. It’s important to build that history. If you are talking about a start-up and you have probably come across some that are looking at raising large amounts of money, it’s critical to have that system in place, I would think.
 Jim: It’s about the source and use of funds. If we go back to that value map, and we go back to 20-22 activities within those four arenas, anybody can do that. Start-ups can do it. Early-stage developments can do it. Ongoing activities that haven’t had a huge history yet, anybody can do that. When you step back and look at and get real about if this is what we are doing here, now that you can begin to do that, you will channel the activities, that precious time, and that precious talent that is wanting to support that idea, concept, or project that is being launched, now can devote their attentions to the right things and minimize those things that might be important but are not critical. Now we can spend energy and time in the right things.
 Hugh: Russell, I bet you’re thinking what I'm thinking is that these things are highlighting some of the things that donors want to know about.
 Russell: When somebody comes to you, somebody may be listening here, and we hope people get listening here get value out of it. That’s why we do this work. It’s very important. When somebody approaches you and says, Okay, well, I think I understand in theory why I need this. Where do I start? Where is it that you tell them to start? Or you begin the process so that they can move in the direction of implementing this system.
 Jim: Again, working from the inside out, we start with the chief steward of the organization. Whoever is the responsible party for making the focused decisions of what to do here. We interview them and have them unpack that story that is that chart of activities, those 20-22 activities inside those four areas. Once we unpack that, we begin to hone it a bit. More importantly, since we are not really ever talking to people who are solopreneurs, someone who has a few people around them, we begin to go to the next responsible party. Without the answers provided by the first, we allow them to do the process maps themselves. Then we begin to get the alignment. When we get the alignment, now we begin to say where is our energy and time? As that system begins to manifest out into larger circles, from that alignment process, once we have alignment, we can begin to make measure. Depending on what we are measuring against, whether it’s the history of the story and the financials or whether it’s what our intended outcomes are, now we can at least begin to apply it.
 Hugh: A lot of good intentions. This backs it out with some tracking. I think this is an energy field where people understand what’s going on, and it begins to build the collaborative energy in the organization.
 Your website is Management Operating Systems, MOSUpgrade.com. Spell out the word “upgrade.” People can find out more there and contact you at that site.
 *Sponsor message from Rock Paper Simple and SynerVision Leadership*
 Jim, what do you want to leave people with today?
 Jim: Because of the nature of your questions, I know you wanted me to simplify this. I believe we have. I may not have explained it quite that well, from the standpoint of it’s very, a professional can do things that look so simple. When we take a look at your organizational activities, we really do look at the complexity of every organization, but we simplify it.
 If I can leave one message behind, it is that this ain’t so hard. This ain’t so hard. As I said, we built it on the shoulders of giants. There is a lot of research and data behind this that proves the process and theory. We have some practical demonstrations of outcomes that have worked for some good-sized organizations.
 MOSUpgrade, which is Management Operating Systems, Upgrade.com. You can find me there listed as one of the team members. We do have an organization to implement this with some specialized talents.
 Directly, people can contact me easily on JimDygert@zoho.com. Love to be able to walk some people through this. Our real challenge is to find people who have a real desire to impact and are having some difficulty making that happen.
 Hugh: Russell, let’s say goodbye.
 Russell: Jim, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you very much. It’s always important to measure what you’re doing. It’s not rocket science. Contact Jim. Go to SynerVisionLeadership.org or RussellDennis.com, and there are tools for you to do all of these things. Many thanks again.
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        <![CDATA[<h1>A New Approach to Decision Making for Nonprofits with Jim Dygert</h1> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. Russell, good day to you, sir.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Happy Tuesday, the last Tuesday of August. Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> We have a brilliant financial mind here today in the form of young Jim Dygert. He is going to talk to us about money, something some of us get a little uncomfortable with, but we always have to keep in mind.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh, Jim Dygert. Tell us about yourself please.</p> <p><strong>Jim Dygert:</strong> Good day. I began a journey after college with a little operation called the U.S. Treasury Department. I scored very high in some adaptation skills that I had, which allowed me to move into what they call a systems analyst. As a systems analyst, I am looking for not only the repeated process steps inside of an organization or an activity, but I am also looking for the aberrations that are caused when things don’t work right. With that, I was advanced to be an examiner for the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which is a division of the U.S. Treasury. They’re charged with establishing the solvency and liquidity of our entire national banking system. When I was doing my work there, we were doing the things that ultimately are now considered stress test. The ability for a financial institution tor any organization to behave according to its mandate, its vision, and its mission, and its purpose such that it becomes sustainable<strong>.</strong> I learned the term “sustainability” long before it was applied to the green world of sustainable businesses beyond economics. I learned it from the standpoint of what we call triple bottom line and the ability for an operation to not only create cash flow in those organizations that do create cash flow, or to serve and store the cash flow so that it might be provided to it in the world efforts and the arena of, say, nonprofits, where there may be a grant or sponsors or contributors that are allowing those funds to be available to pursue a particular goal and vision or mission.</p> <p>In that process of learning systems dynamics and systems analysis and procedural process steps and mapping of flow of work force behaviors, ultimately in the last 15 or 20 years, the industry that’s applied to, I wanna say consulting, but not really, the work I do is not really consulting. It does give consul, and it does give a procedural step. We actually have built a non-technology-based, non-IT-based, non-software-based procedural process steps for risk mitigation. In effect, the decision-making skills that any organization needs to go through, whomever is stewarding the direction of that organization, needs to have a tool set for discerning and determining what are the best decisions to make. Now there is a lot of prior work we all say that we stand on the shoulders of giants who came before us. There is a lot of prior work in this industry. But no one has taken the position that we have, that we create what we call a mirror and complement to the chart of activities or the chart of accounts that is associated with financial statements. I think you’ll agree, and your audience is probably familiar with, financial statements.</p> <p>Whether it’s a personal solopreneur that needs to have a financial statement and does have one, or an enterprise or organization, whether they are for profit or whether they are not for profit, those financial statements are often the story that is told of the history of that organization’s activities. To be able to read that story is much like reading a language. Understanding the nuances of how those outcomes came to exist is the story which we dive into. We give the real practical, actionable, practitionable events that allows the decision-maker, again, whether it’s a solopreneur or all the way through to a larger organization. We have worked with very large organizations with more than 2,000 employees.</p> <p>The process works because it does what we would call- it goes beyond business process management. Some people may have heard of things like Adjul or Balanced Score Card or Sig Sigma or a whole arena of disciplines that approach and help to describe the inter-working relationships that go on inside of an organization because an organization is a living, breathing entity. It goes and lives in essence beyond the work force. It creates it. Hopefully it does. Whether it’s a proprietor who built something and some day steps away, because they have sold it or it grew up, we have worked with employee stock option programs where employees have purchased the operations that were created by an original founder. We have worked on mergers and acquisitions where a company is going to be absorbed by someone else or merges, and there is a cultural clash that goes on between them. Oftentimes, cultural clashes are merely an outcome of not sufficient information and not sufficient communications. There is a whole arena of work in that environment. We encapsulate that. We encapsulate financial literacy and mastery of financial statements, and we encapsulate this entire process of organizational behavior and created a mirror and complement to the chart of accounts that mirrors and complements what we call a chart of activities. When we do that, we get a true line of sight between the behavior inside the organization and the financial outcomes it produces. From there, we can create performance and projections.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, what is that spark in your interest? You work in the financial area. What kind of interest does that spark by you?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One of the keys to being able to make money in nonprofits is to tie a story to it. Money tells a story. As you said, it has a language of its own, and people can tie- I like that statement: chart of activities. It’s COA. In painting a picture for people that support you, it’s important to be able to talk about how what they’re contributing is making a difference or an impact in the lives of other people. Being able to follow that activity is important. As we teach here at SynerVision, the money should be tied to the plans. All of those numbers mean something. All of it has a place, as all of your activities have a place and should have a place. Unpack that a little bit for us. People will sit there and look at a chart of accounts and think of a budget. What is a good example of an account that becomes activity? If you were to take a certain set of items off of that chart of activities and relate it to a chart of accounts, what would those things be, and what kind of story would they tell?</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> Sure, that is exactly what the process begins to do. We actually map those, and we end up with a value creation map. The value creation map is indicative of the collection of activities. It is not just usually a single person or a single node that ends up impacting the financial direction of the organization. Either the past, or if we intend to change its future. We are actually looking at that collection of things that may drive the results we are looking for. For instance, we may have in a nonprofit as you say the source of funds coming from an outside environment. We don’t have to have operational activities to drive source of funds the way a product or service company does. But we still have an activity that might be needed to raise funds or to maintain funds or to continuously create an additional flow of funds. That behavior activity, as a group of things that are done, end up being the driving factors that will of course show up instead of income like a for-profit company, it will show up in the direct revenue sourcing.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This sounds like an interesting hybrid between a spreadsheet and a value proposition map, for example.</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> Exactly. You’re capturing the concept of what this is. The process is rather definitive. We define the exact ways in which things are done in order to solicit and create the organizational alignment because as we all know, whether it’s a for-profit or nonprofit organization, if we don’t have alignment of vision, purpose, and mission, we don’t have the right contribution of human energy in order to get the things accomplished we need to, whether it’s run a particular campaign or do a particular event or maintain the back office in some way. We go through a process that first aligns people.</p> <p>Secondly, through that alignment process, there is a dissection or depiction by the individual parties of what are the value creation activities inside the organization that create a thrilled and delighted customer? We can use the term analogy “customer” in any vernacular we like. Who is our customer in this? Who is our customer in that? When we go through that process, we are looking for the hand-ups and hand-offs of the things that are going on, the action steps, the behaviors and activities that then can be mapped and charted and now because of that grouping and analysis work, we can find out what impact it has. If it’s on traditional financial statements or a nonprofit’s financial statement, now we can begin to tie that together. We have actually redefined what is called a KPI.</p> <p>People have heard of that: key performance indicator. When the KPIs were first identified and created, they had a very significant and purposeful meaning. Over the years, KPIs have slipped a little bit. The integrity of what a KPI is has been lost and is a minutiae almost inside of so many other disciplines. Sometimes today in a manufacturing world, a KPI company might be how many widgets we produce today, this week, or this month, or this quarter. Or how many cartons did we ship off the loading dock. Those are certainly performance indicators, but they are not what we call <em>key</em>performance indicators, and they are not master measures of what kinds of things are being done inside the organization. When I say how things are being done, not just what is being done.</p> <p>When we apply the process steps to which we derive key performance indicators, first of all, we are looking for an operational data point, something that we can demonstrably describe in an operational statement, and how is that measured against a financial data point, and that data point may show up in the financial statements. Once we have those two, now we are looking for discernment as to whether it’s historic activities are in line with where we want to take the direction of the organization, or they may not be, and what changes do we need to make in order to impact the future growth of the organization?</p> <p>There are some similarities in for-profits and nonprofits. Not always. But in some for-profit businesses, they have a board of directors. The board of directors may be implementing operational directives that the chief executive officer or a hired president may need to have as a mandate to move forward to directionalize the growth of that organization. It’s coming from the board. Similarly, nonprofits may have an operating manager or an ED or a managing director that is stewarding the direction of the organization, but they may also have a board that has some mandates to what the outcomes we are looking for are. As the decision-maker and the go-to process person, the president or the managing director, they have to make decisions regularly on what is the direction that the organization is going in. Is it consistent with the mandate? And it changes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell opened up a good topic. I’m sorry, I thought that was a period, it was a comma. He opened up this fascinating topic, this channel. You have delved into the data. It is almost like a three-dimensional way of looking at a static document. I find that there is remarkable similarities in entrepreneurs, whether they are working for a for-profit or for-purpose enterprise. Virtually, the board of directors has financial oversight responsibility. Financial oversight and governance are the two big ones. Russell’s area of work is high-performance nonprofits that generate money. My work overlaps with that. Our work overlaps each other. It’s how we generate the culture of high performance.</p> <p>Jim, what occurs to me as you are explaining this, is the similarity is the people running the organization don’t really understand the numbers and what they mean. There is a fundamental lack of understanding of the balance sheet and the P&amp;L budget and they don’t really know what a cash flow projection could be used for. They also don't realize the metrics you are putting on the plate. You are measuring what we do, how we do it, but we also need to measure the results of what we are doing. That is the real meat. Speak in that direction a little bit. You are creating a whole new picture. We named this interview – I took the liberties in saying it’s “a new systems approach of financial decision-making for nonprofits.” What you are opening up is a whole new paradigm of how we, the governance of this organization, make effective financial decisions.</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> Correct. Because it’s not just financial decisions. We have non-financial outcomes as well. That may be job satisfaction, enjoyment in what we do, the contribution of time and talent, besides the treasure people may be giving to a nonprofit or a for-purpose business activity. We are looking at that holistic approach from an operations- how does the grease move between the wheels? If we called the money the cash flow, the grease that moves between the wheels, how does it get there? Where does it go? How is it used? What decisions processes do we have to go through in order to implement change and/or growth and/or strategies that we wouldn’t otherwise be able to project forward without the understanding of how much grease there is, where it comes from, and where is it best used? Because this is a decision process tool to help discern the activities inside the organization that will drive the organization to where its intended destination is.</p> <p>A lot of budget process steps are analysis work to discern how much did we do last year, what is our deviation differences between the few years before and where we want to go? We set goals as dreams, as visions, as desires. We begin to move there. We don’t have the tools to stay on track. We don’t want that train to jump the track. We have to lay down the track in a way that is consistent with the activities of the past and consistent with our intended outcomes and set the mile posts and the signs on the track ahead to ensure that it stays on the track. If it starts to get off the track, which happens, how do we know it’s getting off the track before we derail it? Long before we have derailed it so that we can make sure we are staying on track and staying focused with our vision and purpose.</p> <p>You had it right, Hugh. This is like a three-dimensional view of a single-dimension financial statement. When a business operator looks at their financial statements, oftentimes, the individual who is running that organization or that entity has a little depth into it, has a second level view into it. But until that second-level view can be catalyzed and articulated to the other members of the organization, such that the other members have full unanimity and an understanding of what is happening inside the organization with the value creation activities that create a thrilled and delighted customer, all those things that begin to manifest and create the organization as an entity, that is your second level of depth.</p> <p>Your third level of depth is once that takes place, we need a loop back system. We need a way in which those activities are not only understood, but they are inculcated into a system in a way in which those behavior traits begin to manifest by everyone inside the organization. The deeper we take it through a work force environment, the more sustainable results that we can end up achieving. Believe me, the beauty of this is it’s not particularly hard or difficult. It’s not tech, and it’s not software. These are process activities that can take a very limited amount of time when we implement them in the strategy we have created.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tag on that a minute that was a direction I was hoping to go. As you explained it, I am melting down here. This looks like it’s really hard. For Russell, it’s a piece of cake. For me, it sounds hard. Can you give- This is one thing you can implement without breaking a sweat.</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> I will use an example where a chief financial officer or president of a company, a for-purpose organization, has a viewpoint of the operational activities of that endeavor. We begin to do a process map and let them unpack that tacit amount, that information we have in their head. How do we do this? How do we operate? When that is done, we usually go to the next key performer inside the organization. In a for-profit, sometimes that is a controller or a CPA or the CFO. We get their alignment. We get their vision of it. Once we get unanimity between the two, then we can begin to move that out into the next realm of responsibilities: senior teams, the core teams of a for-purpose organization.</p> <p>As that begins to become a real map, a real value creation activity map, now we begin to tie those things into, in their case, their financial statement, whatever that financial statement is. The system, we have used it for early-stage start-up organizations that are less than three years in operations, and it does have tremendous value, and we can get alignment. The best use of what we have accomplished is in larger organizations that have been established for a period of time and have a lot of working modules. There is a theory of domains that say in an ordered and in an unordered states. Ordered states are things like simple and complementary. Unordered are things like chaos and complex. We work in that world of simple and complexity. Because of that, every organization has intended activities. Therefore, we have a loop. Once we know there is intended activities, we have a loop. When we have a loop, we can define the elements that support that loop.</p> <p>If I can bring it back down to that working relationship for you to understand, Hugh, it is simply diagnosing the activities inside the organization. Looking for systems that are created. Some of the best activity that we have applied this to is there is a thing called the theory of constraints. If you constrain a volume of water and constrict it, you are going to reduce the amount of flow the water has. You may increase the speed, but potentially you are restricting that. When we applied this process using the theory of constraints, we are applying it to the aberrations in the system. Remember I said something about my background as a systems analyst of aberrations in systems. That is what we look for.</p> <p>When we apply it to an organization, we are looking for those things that just don’t connect well, the things we call disconnects and strengths and problematic areas. The things that keep people staying up late at night, those little worrisome areas that say, “I wish I could fix this.” This process begins to unpack and peel back the activities that create the process which are the intended outcomes. We define those unintended outcomes that are the consequences. Then we can reapply the same process to discern what are the intended outcomes we want and giving us the gauge point that behavior statement, data point, on top of a financial data point. Now we can begin to monitor and make sure the activities are what carry forward.</p> <p>We are a big believer in organizations should run under what we call non-directive leadership. We have gone through the development stage in organizations where directive leadership is command control, rank and file, orderly activities. I am not saying that’s being replaced. There is still a lot of need for the process steps that that has been built on. But in today’s environment, to become nimble and to be able to adept itself as a living entity in an environment that is also changing, the better you can encapsulate your living environment and ensure you are in command and control of that environment, means you can be nimble. Command and control in that sense means that you have diversified some authority and moved that authority down through the rank and file so that decisions can be made by people who have the responsibilities and then need the authority to make those decisions.</p> <p>We look at non-directive leadership in that the hierarchy of work force, be it up through managers and presidents, is all about red light, green light, or yellow light projects. The projects are being brought from the lower level and brought in as saying we believe this is a better way to accomplish what we intend to accomplish. Here is how we propose to change what we have happening to improve that process. Senior personnel will either then red light the process because it is not acceptable for whatever reasons, yellow light it with exceptions being like “I’ll green light it once you have these answers. We have to look at the system elsewhere and see where we have some aberrations that might take place,” or green light it, “You did a great job. We don’t see anywhere wrong with this. We have checked, and we believe you have a solution to a problem and this is the way to mitigate it. Our blessings. Implement this process.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, you are contemplating some of these themes. What is brewing in that good-looking shiny head of yours?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> A lot of people are jealous of my naturally curly hair, but we will save that for another episode.</p> <p>What I am thinking, because that is the third piece of building what I call a high-performance nonprofit, is staying on track. Having good tools to measure is critical. I am going to ask you about how you get around some of this overwhelm because as you talked about, these things can look overwhelming, especially to somebody who is in a small nonprofit. What I look to do, and I remember meeting a young man by the name of Brendan Brouchard who talked about creating tools. His theory was that they should be easy to access, understand, and use. I have some things that are not necessarily scientific, but it gives nonprofit leaders ways to measure things, just like a profile of a donor or a customer, very basic things. I find that with tools, if the tools kind of flow into the work that people are already doing, it becomes easier for them to actually access them and use them. I think there is a bit of resistance. I know you are working with larger systems. I can’t imagine how much you see.</p> <p>What I was going to ask you was because a lot of people, their eyes will glaze over. How do you break down this need in a way that people sort of get it and convince them that it’s really in their best interest to use it? There is that human resistance to things that look like they will take more effort than the benefits produced. How do you work around that? What are some good ways to talk to people, especially nonprofit leaders about the importance of this and some things they can do that don’t look so large and overwhelming?</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> Good point. Here’s as simple as it can be. When we look at an organization, any kind, no matter its size or purpose, there are four major activities. We get all caught up in all kinds of strategy sessions, but there are four activities. There is sourcing and discerning who our client is, whatever that client is, for-purpose or for-profit. There is servicing and ensuring that that client, prospect, customer is cared for. There is research and development. Then there is back office.</p> <p>Our proposition in the way we have designed and created this simply follows those four arenas. When you look at your whole existence, and you discern yourself in those environments, now, yes, we can get into all kinds of permutations and chart of accounts and 300 line items and financial statements that come off as reams of data because it is a big organization. If we really step back and look at it and say what we are doing here, why are we doing this, what are those elements or arenas that say if we could encapsulate and roll up all those charts of accounts into categorical arenas, those are the four arenas we would find.</p> <p>It is possible to have other minor arenas. But our contention is that is not the focus and motivation of what the organization was intended to accomplish. It may have grown into some of those other arenas along the way. They can be carved out or pushed away or sold. Maybe they developed so deeply that it was a great idea, and it’s time for it to carve out or to break away and become its own existence. We’d have to nurture it and support it along the way. But when we look at those, at the aberrations and not the real content, we now are putting them in the right perspective, and we can stay focused on the right content in the right context so that we can actually create operational behavior. Intended organizational, operational behavior for intended outcomes.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is all very exciting stuff. Because you can get lost in the weeds with software and tools and what’s out there. When you are working with people, what would you say is the primary deliverable they get that they can take and use to, once this system is built, keep themselves on track?</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> Perfect. Well asked. If we hold onto those four arenas, and you simply look at each of those arenas and give yourself four or five activities in each of those arenas that constitute the major activities of that arena, what are the most dominant things that go on in that arena? Whether it’s sourcing or profiling or understanding what our client perspective is, or whether it’s the supporting and product and service delivery, or whether it’s R&amp;D, or back office, if we looked at five or six major activities inside that organization, they will be able to map out for themselves. This could be a six-person organization. It doesn’t have to be 6,000. This can be a very small or ongoing activity. Once they begin to find that, now you are really fine-tuning who is doing the things. How many hats does somebody have to wear to get these done in a small organization? When we get into bigger ones, we are just carving them out and breaking them down deeper.</p> <p>We look at the chunk-it-up to the top. Look at it from that 10,000-foot view and simply understand the mechanics of what is going on. When you get those mechanics down, you can actually create a map. We call that the value creation map. Those are the four or six things in each arena that are done to make a thrilled and delighted customer.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is brilliant. At what point do they have a number of items in those four arenas, is an organization in danger of losing its effectiveness? Is there an optimum number of activities under each area? I’m certain probably that there are certain things that are most important to each one. What would you say an optimum number is in terms of the effective span of control and efficiency?</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> I don’t know there is an absolute way to discern that because different things do different things. For us to look at things, whether it is a 6,000-employee organization or 60, we still maintain there is probably an optimum number to define for yourself. A master measure of defining, this is what we call, that leads to the KPI, that master measure is the pinnacle of activities, whether it encompasses several thousand people or just a few people underneath it. We do look for an optimum. When we build a chart of activities, we are looking for just 20-22 activities. That’s it. That constitute well over 98% of the activities inside the organization.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I was just thinking about those KPIs. They are different for everybody, for every industry. Those KPIs, with a nonprofit, your donor, your funding sources, there are a lot of other people that help define what those are. The people that get your services. A lot of definition and customization.</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> We also believe a KPI is something that expires over time. When we build a KPI, we are building the data point for the problem, the theory of constraints. We are building a data point over a financial outcome point. We are looking to improve that KPI to the point where the problem has been negated. It’s not a problem anymore. It’s gone away. Or another problem becomes more prevalent and more important. We rotate KPIs over time in having a history base of what those KPI measures are and maintaining an index of those. Now we have assessment tools of what we have done over time and what the process steps of the organization have been. It literally builds the generic environment that allows the organization to thrive and survive over time and be nimble moving into its future.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> For some people who aren’t familiar with KPIs, give us an example of what some typical KPIs might be. As a group, we are looking at a staff, board, committees, volunteers in a for-purpose enterprise. As we look at the KPIs and the measurability of our processes and outcomes, it would seem that would be a way to engage the culture in a performance standard they have not otherwise envisioned.</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> Sure. Let’s use something that has typically been done, and is probably done regularly still, in a for-purpose organization. Let’s say they do something called a fundraiser. They are doing an activity. I don’t care if it’s a 5k run or a pie-eating contest. They have done this before. They know what they are likely to redo again this next season. They are planning for it. In their planning steps, they begin to find out how many people do we have to do this, how many people do we have to do that, how many things do we have to do. The KPI in that activity would be something more along the lines of do we have the punch list created for what we need to accomplish? Surprisingly enough, that simple activity is usually where most of our consult ends up being and mentoring being when someone is failing at an activity. Are you doing the basic block and tackling? If we can now say we need to have an overall planning strategy that constitutes the punch list necessary that defines all the activities before we go in and assign activities, we need to make sure we have a reconcilable document effectively that says now we know how many we are going to assign for this and for that. Now we have a better predictability of the results happening the way we had intended. Now we can define that against the outcome which is how much did we accrue that day or weekend or five-day event?</p> <p>That seems rudimentary. But it does give you an idea that we are looking at a facts of activities. Not the who, not necessarily the what, but about the how. Are we defining the how clearly enough that we can answer it so that we can provide the who that ends up coming out to be the what? In a for-profit business, it could be as simple, and in a for-purpose business, let’s say we are not having good success in driving traffic to our website, and we don’t have a good conversion rate. People are not hitting our landing page; it’s not doing well. Do we have an overall master plan that includes the process steps associated with all the right things necessary to make that work? Or did we just venture into it with a hope, a wish, a dream, a desire to have this outcome? It might sound like tediousness, but we are not talking about the actual things that need to be done. We are talking about defining what needs to be done. Once you define what needs to be done, now you can have the measurement tool to say are we doing that?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Let’s connect the dots. What Russ and I are good at is creating the strategy and a strategic plan, what we call in SynerVision a solution map. It’s fundamentally the same. Where do you want to be, and how are you going to get there? Subsets of that, we have milestones that have price tags on them. We have to generate funding for those. We have a marketing channel – we have to let people know what we are doing so they will fund us. The people who attend our events, the people we want on our board or committees, know what we are doing.</p> <p>We are coming to the last ten minutes here. Give a short answer here, and then we will have a wrap and you will get the final tip before we cut loose this interview today. How do we connect all those different parts?</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> How do we connect them? That was the question.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Your tool providing, is it a way to take what we think we want to do on paper, what we actually want to do, and integrating it. Does your process help us connect those dots?</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> Yeah. In that we are looking at the actual activities that are being performed today. A little bit of what you were describing was a proactive going-to-do thing. Did I garner that a little bit when you said if you looked at the strategy, we want this to happen so we have to budget for it? We are applying it in the realm of is that activity working now? Because if it is, that is how we are applying our systematic approach. If it’s not working now, that becomes hypothetical. It only allows us to accept the framework, but we don’t have the loopback in the financial outcomes yet. In our environment, for what we are doing, we have to have the loop back. It’s a quad-loop activity instead of a dual loop or a triple loop. By the time we get done, we have to have that connectability between operations and the outcomes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s missing often, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> If it’s an ongoing organization, it’s there. If it is an early-stage start-up or brand new or doesn’t have enough history to it, it is extremely difficult to tie this together. We can do theory, and we can get people to understand. They can adapt the process steps that allows for the alignment to take place. That vision forward, that alignment that goes on. That’s good. But in order to create the line of sight reconcilement to the financial statements, if there is none that exists, or it’s too early stage, we don’t have that history yet.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s why I built that four steps to performing a high-performance nonprofit course because you have to start somewhere. You have to begin where you are. By having some tools that you can take and start tracking certain things, you can build that history. It’s important to build that history. If you are talking about a start-up and you have probably come across some that are looking at raising large amounts of money, it’s critical to have that system in place, I would think.</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> It’s about the source and use of funds. If we go back to that value map, and we go back to 20-22 activities within those four arenas, anybody can do that. Start-ups can do it. Early-stage developments can do it. Ongoing activities that haven’t had a huge history yet, anybody can do that. When you step back and look at and get real about if this is what we are doing here, now that you can begin to do that, you will channel the activities, that precious time, and that precious talent that is wanting to support that idea, concept, or project that is being launched, now can devote their attentions to the right things and minimize those things that might be important but are not critical. Now we can spend energy and time in the right things.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, I bet you’re thinking what I'm thinking is that these things are highlighting some of the things that donors want to know about.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> When somebody comes to you, somebody may be listening here, and we hope people get listening here get value out of it. That’s why we do this work. It’s very important. When somebody approaches you and says, Okay, well, I think I understand in theory why I need this. Where do I start? Where is it that you tell them to start? Or you begin the process so that they can move in the direction of implementing this system.</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> Again, working from the inside out, we start with the chief steward of the organization. Whoever is the responsible party for making the focused decisions of what to do here. We interview them and have them unpack that story that is that chart of activities, those 20-22 activities inside those four areas. Once we unpack that, we begin to hone it a bit. More importantly, since we are not really ever talking to people who are solopreneurs, someone who has a few people around them, we begin to go to the next responsible party. Without the answers provided by the first, we allow them to do the process maps themselves. Then we begin to get the alignment. When we get the alignment, now we begin to say where is our energy and time? As that system begins to manifest out into larger circles, from that alignment process, once we have alignment, we can begin to make measure. Depending on what we are measuring against, whether it’s the history of the story and the financials or whether it’s what our intended outcomes are, now we can at least begin to apply it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A lot of good intentions. This backs it out with some tracking. I think this is an energy field where people understand what’s going on, and it begins to build the collaborative energy in the organization.</p> <p>Your website is Management Operating Systems, MOSUpgrade.com. Spell out the word “upgrade.” People can find out more there and contact you at that site.</p> <p>*Sponsor message from Rock Paper Simple and SynerVision Leadership*</p> <p>Jim, what do you want to leave people with today?</p> <p><strong>Jim:</strong> Because of the nature of your questions, I know you wanted me to simplify this. I believe we have. I may not have explained it quite that well, from the standpoint of it’s very, a professional can do things that look so simple. When we take a look at your organizational activities, we really do look at the complexity of every organization, but we simplify it.</p> <p>If I can leave one message behind, it is that this ain’t so hard. This ain’t so hard. As I said, we built it on the shoulders of giants. There is a lot of research and data behind this that proves the process and theory. We have some practical demonstrations of outcomes that have worked for some good-sized organizations.</p> <p>MOSUpgrade, which is Management Operating Systems, Upgrade.com. You can find me there listed as one of the team members. We do have an organization to implement this with some specialized talents.</p> <p>Directly, people can contact me easily on JimDygert@zoho.com. Love to be able to walk some people through this. Our real challenge is to find people who have a real desire to impact and are having some difficulty making that happen.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, let’s say goodbye.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Jim, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you very much. It’s always important to measure what you’re doing. It’s not rocket science. Contact Jim. Go to SynerVisionLeadership.org or RussellDennis.com, and there are tools for you to do all of these things. Many thanks again.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>It’s A Whole New Day! Leadership Challenges Faced by Today’s Church Leaders</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/its-a-whole-new-day-leadership-challenges-faced-by-todays-church-leaders</link>
      <description>Jim Chandler began coaching and consulting in 2016 after nearly 30 years of experience as a pastor and church planter in the Virginia Conference of The United Methodist Church. He also served on the staff as a campus pastor and leader of the stewardship system at The Journey Church in New York City — a dynamic multi-site church known for its effective church ministry and small groups systems.
 Jim brings a positive and encouraging approach, believing that God is at work in churches of all shapes and sizes, and knowing from experience that small changes can make a big difference.
 Jim did his undergraduate work at the University of North Carolina, double-majoring in Economics and Political Science. Following graduation, he operated small businesses and his work eventually led him to Northern Virginia. It was there, in 1987, that he finally answered a call he had felt and resisted for years: to enter pastoral ministry. Jim received his MDiv degree from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC.
 Jim currently serves as the Coordinator for New Church Development for the Alexandria District of The United Methodist Church in Northern Virginia (DC Metro area) and as a consultant for church vitality for the Charlottesville District of The United Methodist Church.
 Jim and his wife, Lynda, celebrated 30 years of marriage in June of 2016. They have two grown daughters, Whitney and Hannah, and a lovable rescued dog, Tabasco. Jim enjoys reading, sports, and traveling with his wife on their Harley-Davidson motorcycle.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7c832b74-b329-11eb-9f0f-b3d95ce14bd4/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Nonprofit Exchange with Coach/Consultant Jim Chandler</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Jim Chandler began coaching and consulting in 2016 after nearly 30 years of experience as a pastor and church planter in the Virginia Conference of The United Methodist Church. He also served on the staff as a campus pastor and leader of the stewardship system at The Journey Church in New York City — a dynamic multi-site church known for its effective church ministry and small groups systems.
 Jim brings a positive and encouraging approach, believing that God is at work in churches of all shapes and sizes, and knowing from experience that small changes can make a big difference.
 Jim did his undergraduate work at the University of North Carolina, double-majoring in Economics and Political Science. Following graduation, he operated small businesses and his work eventually led him to Northern Virginia. It was there, in 1987, that he finally answered a call he had felt and resisted for years: to enter pastoral ministry. Jim received his MDiv degree from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC.
 Jim currently serves as the Coordinator for New Church Development for the Alexandria District of The United Methodist Church in Northern Virginia (DC Metro area) and as a consultant for church vitality for the Charlottesville District of The United Methodist Church.
 Jim and his wife, Lynda, celebrated 30 years of marriage in June of 2016. They have two grown daughters, Whitney and Hannah, and a lovable rescued dog, Tabasco. Jim enjoys reading, sports, and traveling with his wife on their Harley-Davidson motorcycle.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Jim Chandler</strong> began coaching and consulting in 2016 after nearly 30 years of experience as a pastor and church planter in the Virginia Conference of The United Methodist Church. He also served on the staff as a campus pastor and leader of the stewardship system at The Journey Church in New York City — a dynamic multi-site church known for its effective church ministry and small groups systems.</p> <p>Jim brings a positive and encouraging approach, believing that God is at work in churches of all shapes and sizes, and knowing from experience that small changes can make a big difference.</p> <p>Jim did his undergraduate work at the University of North Carolina, double-majoring in Economics and Political Science. Following graduation, he operated small businesses and his work eventually led him to Northern Virginia. It was there, in 1987, that he finally answered a call he had felt and resisted for years: to enter pastoral ministry. Jim received his MDiv degree from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC.</p> <p>Jim currently serves as the Coordinator for New Church Development for the Alexandria District of The United Methodist Church in Northern Virginia (DC Metro area) and as a consultant for church vitality for the Charlottesville District of The United Methodist Church.</p> <p>Jim and his wife, Lynda, celebrated 30 years of marriage in June of 2016. They have two grown daughters, Whitney and Hannah, and a lovable rescued dog, Tabasco. Jim enjoys reading, sports, and traveling with his wife on their Harley-Davidson motorcycle.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3732</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Connecting Branding with Marketing for Market Domination with Daniel Ruke</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/connecting-branding-with-marketing-for-market-domination-with-daniel-ruke</link>
      <description>Daniel Ruke: We go so far back, and we know each other so well. You actually know my real name because you said my real name. Daniel’s my real name. Ruke is my last name. As a guy who loves branding, there is a lot of Daniels out there, but there is no Rukes. I attach my identity to my last name. If you’re confused, that’s why because he knows me more than most people.
 I’m an artist privately trained since the third grade. I had a gift. I had really cool parents who supported that gift, and they said this kid has somethin’. They put money out there and invested in me to hone those skills. I graduated as an illustrator from the top illustration school in the United States at that time, Ringling School of Art and Design in Sarasota, Florida. I jumped right out and created my own business. My passion really is I love to wow people. I love creating imagery that evokes emotions, that gains reactions in a storytelling setting. That is what I do today. I do that for my full-service agency, Blink. I actually teach and show up people, I love my fun brand. It’s World Dominating Brand. I think it’s very important that we can design our own world. We have the power to do that and define what that world is and dominate it in a great, positive way. That is a little bit about me.
 I have been married 22 years. I have four beautiful children. I love to play. I am very- I feel I’m very successful because I play. I get to do my dreams for a living, and I love helping others, especially those who want to have huge impact in the nonprofit world. There is a mission behind everybody, there is a story behind everybody’s efforts, there is a heart and desire that is burning in their bones. That fire they want to get out there in the world. Showing up here today to give some of the tools that we use from a marketing and advertising perspective and from a world dominating perspective, I'm excited to share that with you to empower you and your audience to be awesome and effective in an amazing way.
 Russell: Daniel, it’s great to see you. Really it is about a dream. When people step into a space where they want to make a positive difference in the lives of other people, the sky’s the limit. We are facing some huge problems out in society today. It takes big fakers, big dreamers. A lot of times in the grind of serving people, which so many nonprofits do every day, they often lose sight of that dream. That’s a terrible thing to have happen. One of the problems that I’ve seen is I see people doing phenomenal work out there but nobody knows about it. What do you think would be at the root of that?
 Ruke: There’s a mentality of scarcity. There’s a mentality of not worthiness. There’s a mentality of insignificance. When I’m dealing with a leader who’s having that trouble, the trouble is really in their head. It’s what they feel internally. I like to bring them back to the passion of why they are doing what they are doing. They started this mission for a reason. They wanted to change something for a reason. They saw a problem and a solution. It wasn’t just from a business opportunity. It’s more from the heart space, where they want to be effective to solve a problem. When you start doing that, a lot of self-doubt comes into play. What you are trying to cure and solve is so big, how can you do it? That leads to that mentality.
 Then of course trying to get people to rally behind you, to support you in doing that. While a lot of people will support your endeavor, I like that, that’s a good idea, and we encourage you, you have to jump through that like and love perspective and create them as brand partners or donors or supporters, whatever your nonprofit is made up of. That is a hard part. I’ll tell you some of it is because you are doing this out of the goodness of your heart, it’s sometimes hard to ask for the money. There is a guilt. You don’t want to be needy. You don’t want to beg. What I do, I hope that answer is why mentally some people are there.
 What I love to do is I focus on their brand, their branding or brand culture, especially internally. Behind the scenes, they see the mountain here. That’s all they see. They think that you see that mountain with them. You don’t. That’s the mountain they created that they are trying to solve. You are looking at them and watching them take their steps up. When I say you, that’s the outside world. Articulating those steps is very vital in building that connection. When I say “succeeding and growing up in front of your audience,” we don’t always see the great things we’re doing. We only see what’s ahead of us. We’re only problem-solving. We’re empathizing with our cause. Sometimes we get mythically caught up in the cause and become so empathetic that we are sympathetic and we have the similar mentality that infects us, which is not necessarily good. You always have to be that knight in shining armor. While you feel like your steps might be insignificant, they’re not. When you really look at what you’re trying to reach, that jump, that leap, that bridge to get where you want to go is always big. You don’t always know how. That is where that insignificance comes into play and adequacy comes into play.
 What I love to do, and I honestly think this is a good way to do this, is start a journal. Create a journal. Write down what your hopes and desires are for your cause, the recipients of your cause. Then write down some of the case study points of wins. Write down what you’re trying to achieve and what happened. Out of that, you will identify little stories of success. What’s going to help you is if you write that and review it every week, month, or quarter, you will realize that you made a big difference in Sally’s life. But we were so close we didn’t see it. That journal will help you do that. Wow, we helped this family get to the next level! Those are big wins sometimes, but you really don’t see the small steps. What you start doing is look and reflect on those steps. Look at those wins. It takes a lot of little wins. We are always waiting for the big win. Once we get here, then we will show up with our marketing now, then we will show up on social media, then we will start doing announcements, then we will start doing a newsletter when we have these big bragging rights and we put that goal so high. It’s here above the camera. You’re not going to reach it, and no one is going to hear it. You have to talk about the little steps and tell the little stories along the way.
 Of course, in today’s world, with social media and everything that we have, there is no reason why you can’t do it. There is nothing stopping you from doing it except yourself. I can preach, baby. Welcome to the church of Ruke.
 Russell: The mindset is where it’s at.
 Ruke: It is.
 Russell: As far s the organization goes and what we teach at SynerVision is to start from the beginning and build that system. It starts with that dream. You have that dream. You reverse-engineer everything essentially. It’s finding out, bringing the right people on the box, as Jim Collins says in From Good to Great. You don’t have to do everything. The leader gets into the trap where he/she feels like they have to do everything. Here’s the thing that complicates getting the message out there because you want to attract board members, you want to attract volunteers, you want to have donors, you want people that actually use your services. There are so many different people that you have to talk to. The challenge I see folks having is getting the right people on the bus. There is a different message for each type of person. Trying to reach these people is something that a lot of these leaders could use some assistance with. It is about people. It is about stories. People give to people. This is very important. In order for that nonprofit to be effective, they need to reach all of those multiple audiences with the message that resonates with each audience.
 You have been successful. You have done lots of different types of enterprises. You can look at different types of nonprofits. I happen to be on the board of trustees for the church that I attend. While you have certain activities that are church-related, my church does work with homeless programs, with food banks, and a few other agencies in the area. When it comes to messaging and reaching out to these multiple audiences, how would you do it in a scenario with an organization such as a church that works with multiple nonprofits?
 Ruke: You’re getting me to preach here. Let me get up on my pedestal. The challenge with the church specifically is it’s the balance. You’re not really a church. You’re not really a business. Church is sometimes too much of a church, or it’s sometimes too much of a business, and they’re neither. It’s difficult to walk the fine line. When you talk about rallying people behind you, we have to be able to say no. A lot of times we stumble is because we are taking all the Yeses in. You have to be able to say no.
 The opposite side of that is we put so much criteria in front of them to vet them that we actually squash the fire in their bones. That is where a lot of nonprofits actually fail. As you bring people on, you’re building that brand culture. You need to understand what that brand culture stands for and it’s not you. You started it. It’s your vision. But it’s not your organization, right? It’s the donors’. It’s the receivers’ organization. Once you build a brand culture, understand how you are there to serve and to contribute. Now you are always talking about that. It’s never about you and me. You are able to say, “Here’s our brand. Here’s what I stand for. How do you fit into it?” Now all you have to judge is the commitment.
 Here’s the hard part. When they want to do something on their own, oh, you get all scared. It’s your baby. It’s not your organization. You started it. You’re the visionary. But it’s the brand that matters. What you actually get to have a conversation with that person that has all the fire in their bones they want to do stuff. You want to judge if they are committed. That is a proper way to vet them. How much time? What can you do? How much money? What kind of effort? Great. To make sure they will be there. They will finish what they start. Generally, it’s us as leaders of those organizations that get in the way that don’t allow them to finish.
 What your conversation is, how does that fit within the brand. That can be missions. That can be what your goals are. How does that fit within the brand? As long as it’s doing that, you can give them the freedom to go out there, trust their brand is being represented properly. Getting clear on that is important.
 Russell: It is about the brand. The first step to building a high-performance nonprofit is to have a solid foundation. This is where that branding piece comes in because we look at the core values that drive what the leadership team thinks. Who are the people you serve? Who needs you? It’s not about you. The greater mission is where that focus is. You have to determine what are we about? Who do we serve? What is the problem we solve? Why do we do it in a way that nobody else can? That is what it becomes about. That becomes the engine. When you mentioned leaders, I see that leaders have a tough time. You know the ones that have the biggest struggle are the ones that start it, especially after it starts to take off. There is a really good book called The Founder’s Dilemma [by Noam Wasserman] This is something that happens not just in business. To a lot of people, branding is a business term. That’s not necessarily what branding is. Branding isn’t peculiar to business. It’s really who you are and what you’re about. Why do so many people miss the boat on branding? Why do you think that is so misunderstood?
 Ruke: That’s right out there with the word “marketing.” The definition of branding is the activity of marketing. It’s confusing because you have a brand. Most people think that’s a logo. That’s a piece of it. We are building a brand. That’s kind of a company. That’s a piece of it. In my opinion, it really isn’t. The brand is again the exercise of marketing. How you show up. It’s an experience. When you nail down what your internal branding is, what your brand culture is, it’s a set of missions, experiences that you’re trying to achieve, that you stand for. The external branding is the activity of marketing. Once you understand that, I am going to answer your question, that conversation shifts always toward that. You as the founder can release a lot of that control because it’s now about the brand, not about me and my ideas. People who have the most trouble are the smartest people, are the most caring people because they care so much. You have to understand, identify what that brand is, what that stands for, what that experience is doing. Then you can focus on that, and it takes you out of the equation quite frankly.
 But people get confused on branding because it’s an ethereal thing. It’s an emotion. A lot of that emotion is memories and promises of what that experience is. Since it’s ethereal, it’s hard to pinpoint. There are steps to identifying branding: just like what you said, what do we stand for? What are our goals? What is the logo? What are our colors? How is that spread to the world? How is that communicated to the world? How do we look at it internally? In brand words, what do we stand for?
 I have an exercise that helps you discover what your brand words are. It takes all this big concept to three little words. I will tell you mine right now: creative, empowering, and entertaining. Every company that I own, every company that I start has to fit into those three things. If not, it will be out of sequence with me. I hope you see I’m creative. Empowering, I am giving you a lesson right now. Entertaining, I hope I’m making you laugh. So everything I do fits in that. It takes our brand and the essence of that brand and simplifies it. Sometimes that is the best help they can get. What are those three words? You can always go how does that communication fit within creative, empowering, and entertaining? It can fit maybe two, but not one. Your CFO. Don’t want creative. You don’t need every bit of it. If you really do your communications, you can always look at it and say, “That’s a great idea. How does it fit into those words?” If it doesn’t speak to all three, it’s not a good fit. Get rid of it. Or if it’s a communication, and you’re going to show up on Facebook, can we show up in a creative, empowering, and entertaining way? You guys are great at that. If you can, it’s great, that’s a great initiative. If you remember those three words and hone those three words in and own them, you can always point to that and challenge and judge everything you’re doing from what you wear, what you say, what medium you use, what kind of newsletters you put out there, what Facebook Lives you put out there. It really helps you stay on track.
 And people can take the ethereal thing and judge themselves to see what they are doing. We rely so heavily upon them.
 Russell: That’s great. It’s all about who we are. Boiling it down, in the book, why should I choose you, they boil it down to seven words that drive why you do your business. Doesn’t necessarily show up on the slogan. The idea you’re talking about is just the same. The definition of why you do what you do, and it directs everything you do. Some people are really good. They get this part down. Oh, great. Now we know what it’s about. Now, who are some of the people we want to reach? How do we find out who we want to reach? Well, I gotta recruit some more board members. I gotta find some volunteers. How do I find out where they are, and how do I get to them? Then what do I say when I get there?
 Ruke: Yeah. That comes down to choosing the right people. I like to look at board members, and the reason why you bring board members is they are giving money or they are a point of credibility that allow you to get money. This is for nonprofits. That’s why they’re there. If they just want to give and they are not going to do that, they are more volunteers. Again, what I love to do is talk about the mission and the brand. This is what we stand for. This is how we’re applying ourselves to the world. Of course, this is what our goal is. This is what the cause is behind it. You have to see if they resonate with that and have the same passion. They have to have the same passion. What level of commitment are they willing to give? You might have a lot of people who want to commit a lot, but they aren’t in sync with that, so you have to say no, or vice versa.
 Ho w to communicate that. Here’s the truth. If you go back to the first part of our conversation about the little stories of success, and you start talking about them, first of all, you the leader, whomever the voice is, the communicator, the marketing director, the founder, once you connect back to why you’re doing what you’re doing and focus in on those brand words, to get really centered, then look at those little successes. Forget about the big monster. It’s that cloud that hangs over you. Forget about that. Just the little successes right now. You start sharing those successes with your world. You will attract the right people, especially if you show up within your three brand words. My perspective. If you show up in an entertaining way, if you show up in an empowering way, if you show up in a creative way, you will attract people who are attracted to that. If you articulate what you are trying to do, they will walk beside you. But they also want to see success. The reason why those little stories. I am going to tell you how you apply some of those to help with the marketing part.
 When you start articulating those stories of success, they see their investment of time, money, and energy grow. They are seeing tangibility to the efforts that they are doing. That is so important. Those little stories of success can show up with Facebook Lives. Hey, we’re here helping the kids today. Thank you donors because you have been able to put backpacks. We’re going back to school, right? We were able to give 50 backpacks to this grade school. You guys did it. Thank you. That’s a huge success. People feel good about that. It could be a newsletter. It could be your Facebook pictures and posts.
 I focus on Facebook. I will tell you some tactics here as we get into this. I focus on that because it is the easiest, most successful media we have. It is the most visited website out there, so you might as well. Almost everybody is on there. I would also say there are other platforms, but make sure your audience is there. You want to reach the people you want to reach. There is definitely other platforms like Snapchat and Instagram. Depends who your supporters really are. Quite frankly, you might have a platform where you speak to your supporters. Some of us are older, so that’s Facebook, but your recipients of your supports might be on Snapchat. You might want to separate the way you communicate. Here’s showing how we support. Here’s our actual support. But that might be a deeper dive.
 Russell: Success leaves some clues. The important thing is really to be aware of where the people that you want to reach are at. Having a leadership that is committed to doing that is really important. Everybody you talk to may fall into a different category. You want three things from people. All three would be lovely: time, talent, and treasure. If you can get them all, beautiful. But everybody can serve in some capacity. What is important to some may not be important to others. There is an extra level of commitment that you need out of your board members. They have to be committed. Once you figure out what it is that you stand for and what that thing is that drives everything you do, it boils down to making sure everybody is singing off the same sheet of music. The guy who is sweeping the floor should be able to tell you the mission with as much skill as your executive director because everybody’s enthusiastic about it. Everybody has a way to serve in a way that matches their desires. It’s matching all of those desires.
 When it comes to tactics, it’s really about getting into these different places. Stories matter. You got the CFO type that you mentioned before. They are all about the numbers. But when you translate the dollars you raise to the number of backpacks you purchase and the number of laptops that the school is going to have that the children have access to, you’re not only showing the impact with the dollars, but you’re impacting lives. That is the double bottom line that nonprofits- You are providing value out there. It’s important to talk about the difference you make and that you’re providing value. You don’t need to show up with a hat in hand. You are there to partner with people to make a real difference in your community. There are a lot of tools out there to do that and ways to talk about doing that. That is your wheelhouse. It’s painting a picture for people so that they understand how what they do matters. Every time we contact people, we don’t have to ask for something. We can tell them how what they have already done has made so much difference. Hey, you can do more. The more that you do, the more people that we help. It’s really getting in there and not being afraid to look at things like marketing because we have to create success systems as leaders. We have to give people tools to talk with, tools to go out and reach out to other people with, and make it personal because everything, whether your tax status is profit-making or nonprofit, it’s all about relationships. People work with others that they know, like, and trust.
 Ruke: I agree. Let me share with you some tactics on how to do that. Is that cool?
 Russell: That’s outstanding. I would like to see that.
 Ruke: Ready to learn some cool stuff? First of all, I want to say this. If I go through this, you can ask me questions. I will tell you to go to WorldDominatorsUnite.com. That is our group. We can let you in. I will rattle some stuff off. You will probably go, I have to take notes. I want to give that to you because your mission is very important. What you have in your mind and your ideas and what you are trying to do is absolutely correct. I want you to be able to have the great impact you were born for.
 That said, one of these is we might sometimes have a problem asking for support. We don’t want to constantly ask for money. Especially in the digital world, one thing we love to do is, “Hey, here are a couple ways to support us.” This is what we are trying to do. Here is how you can participate. One easy way is to like our fan page. That’s it. Right. That is small. Then you can build. Maybe volunteer, or donate. When you’re asking for support, it’s not always give me money. Like our fan page. Share what we’re doing. That’s awesome. What that does is that triggers people to go, Oh, I’m involved now. I’m invested. I do like your fan page. By the way, let me back this up. I am talking about your Facebook fan page, your business page. That said, or whatever social media you’re talking about. Join us here. Support us by liking us and subscribing. That’s huge because now you can build a relationship you’re talking about. When you make that request, there are three ways to support us: this, this, and this. You should always get a yes. If you don’t, they don’t resonate, so don’t waste your time. That allows you to grow in to the bigger question of donate. If you already have that relationship, you have built that cold relationship to a warm relationship to a hot relationship, then you can make that big request. Let it sit there.
 Here are some technology tactics I would do. The reason why you want to like, and I am going to go through a journey. This will be a customer journey. The reason why you want them to like the Facebook fan page business page is so that you can retarget them. Now you are going what does that mean? That is talking about running ads. I will get to that last. Running ads on Facebook. That is what you want to do. A lot of people go, I want to see my likes. I want them high because it makes you feel good. I am not saying from vanity. It’s not that. The reason why you specifically want that is because you want to be able to retarget them. Get some likes. Then run ads that are just about how awesome the mission is. No request. It’s only a brand awareness. What you’re doing is saying, “Like us, love us.” What you can do within Facebook specifically, and it’s a deep dive, and we are doing this training so I am welcome to do it. It’s free training. WorldDominatorsUnite.com. Happy to show you some of these techniques.
 What you are going to do is when you place an ad, and it could be a video of you talking about your mission, what you’re doing, some cool things, some stories, and you can spend dollars on that and get it out to the world. When you do that, there is data points that you can check off that are people who are highly likely to support other nonprofits. People who are interested in X, Y, and Z. Now you are specifically targeting people that have not only habits that might give to you, but also have interest. If you come out there with your story first, these stories of successes, you are creating brand awareness. As you have done that, you then can follow that up, so you have this brand awareness stuff, with the same group because they have liked your page. You can now follow up with requests for support. Support us. Then they hit that button, Yes, I want to support you. They can come to a landing page that has several ways to support us, and one can be donating.
 The key to that is get people to like your business page/fan page on Facebook. Then run ads talking about how awesome the mission is. No requests. They’re just top of mind. A third would be here is a specific request to support us. That support is three different ways. They might have already liked it. Who cares? It looks like they have helped you. Volunteer, support us, give us money.
 Russell: That’s what it’s all about.
 Ruke: And that’s automated.
 Russell: It’s making it easy. What you just illustrated is how making it easy for people to act actually increases that support. Make sure you visit WorldDominatorsUnited. Getting out there, making it easy to support you is really important. it’s like non-ask events when you do things live. But it’s all about building that relationship. That’s one way to do it. Tell us more, Daniel.
 Ruke: Here’s another secret sauce. These are my little ninja tricks. Understand if you set what I did, it’s not complicated. Some people might think they have clarity now, and others aren’t sure. It’s not complicated. But once you understand that cycle of we are going to market our brand to the world, then we will retarget them with asks of support, all you have to show up with is your story. Now that’s working, all you show up with is, Here’s a small win. Here’s another small win. Here’s another small win. Or maybe your thoughts. I was reflecting with someone who we’re helping, and it meant a lot to him, so thank you. We have the small ones. Again, don’t get caught in the mindset of, I have to share big wins. It’s the small ones that matter. We’re usually too hard on ourselves.
 Here’s another ninja trick. I know you, my friend. I know that we go to places together, right? We network in places. Most nonprofits have somewhere where you’re networking. Here’s what I would do. This is real ninja stuff. Are you ready? I do this. It’s so much fun. I’ll tell you inside of some things we have done because of this.
 I would look for a place for you to network.
 Russell: Okay.
 *Technical difficulties*
 Ruke: You missed my ninja trick!
 Russell: Now you have to go to WorldDominatorsUnited and sign up to find out what the trick is.
 Ruke: No, this is important. Where’d I leave you, baby?
 Russell: I’m not exactly sure. It got stuck there.
 Ruke: It did? Here we go. I’ll kinda start the technique over again. I saw your face freeze, and I wasn’t sure. You go to a networking event. They meet weekly, monthly, or quarterly. This technique really doesn’t work anything more than that. You go there. You collect business cards. Then you come home, and either you do this yourself, have a virtual assistant or assistant take those business cards in, and invite them to like your page. Some you will have to friend, which is cool. By the way, what you said, Russell, those who give, you give to people you know you like. They gotta be your friends. Does that make sense? There is a reason for that relationship. What you do is invite them to like your page. Now what you do then, imagine this, Russell. You go to a networking group. Say you meet 30 people. Now you may have 30 people who like your page. That doesn’t matter. Now you run ads a week before going to the event. It’s just brand awareness. Hey, look at my page. This is a great win. We helped this family out. Thank you for this support. No request. It’s just that.
 Here’s what happens. All those people who liked the page are now giving all these ads. You can spend $100 on this. It doesn’t have to be exorbitant because you are only trying to reach a handful of people. You’re not trying to reach the masses at this point. What happens is when you show up, the buzz that you create is tremendous. You are going to have people walk up to you and say, “I see you all over Facebook. I see all the great stuff you’re doing.” “I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Have you ever thought of supporting? Do you want to help? You seem excited about this.” See how that works.
 That’s how you can use social media online in an offline networking situation. You constantly do that. Every time you show up, you have your campaigns going, and then you have these people who see you. They get to know you more. What happens is their confidence in you and love and support for your endeavor goes up, and their barriers go down. That is when you can start making real requests. People will come to you and say, “How can I support you?”
 When I started speaking, here’s proof of this, Russell. When I started speaking, I did this. There’s a networking group that you and I both love tremendously called CEO Space International. When I had the great honor of being asked to talk, I did this. I showed up, and everybody knew who I was. Why? Because I was targeting you.
 Russell: Yeah. You seize control of Facebook. This is something that Daniel started several years ago to become more effective and to find ways to use this effectively. What a lot of agencies do, they look at everything as a cause. If nobody knows about what you’re doing, you’re not going to reach anybody. You have to invest on the front end more in the way of time is what you’ll have to invest. But you’ll have to, in order to stay top of mind and get out there, and I’ll be talking a little bit about that with one of our sponsors. It’s being top of mind, getting out there. Sometimes a nonprofit doesn’t have the resources, but these techniques that you have just learned are something you can start doing today.
 Let’s look at an organization and say either one of two things is taking place. Maybe they got a little bit to invest, but they don’t have the skills or the knowledge to do it. Or they have gone out and thrown some money at Facebook ads. I have spent quite a bit. I don’t seem to be getting any traction. With those techniques, there is a logical sequence that you follow and you got loads of followers. What would be a logical sequence you would have somebody in that instance follow to ramp that up?
 Ruke: 80% of your business is going to come from existing business and people you know. That is what I call warm and hot traffic, leads. What a lot of people come in the mindset of is that 20% is cold. That is the most expensive. You are going to spend 80% of your dollars getting that 20%, but you can see over time how that grows a business. There is not a silver bullet. A lot of people go, “I want to spend a couple hundred bucks and get brand new people in.” I showed you a scenario that doesn’t work. I am also saying that you want to use those tools and techniques to support your existing endeavors. We don’t want to throw everything away and start all new, unless you are trying to go big fast and you have the wherewithal to do so.
 By asking people first to like your page and invite them on Facebook to do so, don’t go around giving them a card and saying to like your page. No one is going to do that. I am talking you go on it, and you type it out, and you invite them. Once you have done that, now you can spend very low dollars because you are only reaching a handful of people. That supports your existing endeavors. Does that make sense? That is one key to step into there.
 As you want to grow, you don’t want to sit there and be stuck at a computer all day. There are automated systems for this. If you are talking about the smaller end, you have HootSuite, Sprowt Social, which helps you with social media stuff and getting it out there on platforms. You can level that up with automated marketing stuff called AutoPilotHQ.com, which I love. It helps build out customer journeys. Once someone comes in and opts in, they get an email or a text or whatever. Let that relationship work itself. One of the higher ends is HubSpot, which creates all your marketing and all your emails and your ads and all that fun stuff. You can go deep real fast.
 But the little steps are be clear on your mission and what you are trying to do. I will tell you some of the stuff I like to do is education. I challenge nonprofits not just to sit there and tell their opinion and tell why they are doing it, but also offer some education on how what they are doing can make every person better by X, Y, and Z. That is one thing we do.
 I’ll pull it right now. You have received this before. When we show up, this is our World Domination package. In it are these cheat sheets. That is what you were talking about. These things are obviously taking time to build out, but these are our handouts. We talk about it costing money. This is not inexpensive. When I talk, everybody in my talk gets a whole packet like this around the subject matter that they can implement. Creating some cheat sheet. All you have to do is talk about those cheat sheets, those white papers. There are a lot of words. The secret formula for how to accomplish something. Whatever the education platform. It might be a video series to help your audience. As you do that, a lot of people who are now recipients of your nonprofit could become donors on small levels because they felt it, they felt effective, they felt like they had gotten use out of it. The big deep dive to solve their problems. You are educating them to what I call symptoms.
 I am pulling up a random one. How to Create Lead Generation. It’s what we talked about. Build out a persona. What you want to give to them for free. And a landing page. It tells you how to do it.
 But when you have that kind of information, you could give it out to people. Yes, it takes time and money to do that. But when it is received, they get to know you. They become affected in a positive way of the intellectual property, the systems and processes, your knowledge, you’re preaching your teaching, and they become fans. Now the next conversation is you want to support this so others can have it. That is when you get them in. Some of these people might not have a lot of money, so you can support Facebook and like us on your social platforms, or donate $20. It’s easy. It’s not hard to accomplish that. Actually grows your fan base with great value. Does that make sense?
 Russell: That’s what it’s all about. The word “value” is not used often in these circuits. Bringing value to people you serve, how they define it depends on how they relate to you. Those are parts of the stories you want to weave into the fabric of who you are and the difference you are making. What is the value? People will tell you what is valuable to them. You overdeliver and underpromise on that value. You demonstrate that impact. Those tools, I’ve sat through one of the early sessions you did when you first developed that system. It’s better now than it ever was. It’s remarkable. If you sit and take time to go through that and put a system together and find ways to give people value, and that’s talking about what you do and what’s important to them, using a system a lot like this one. It’s perfect. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel. World Dominators Unite. They will walk you through those tools. This is where we put in the time. This is a great project.
 If you’re looking at attracting support. One of the best kept secrets is pro bono. I don’t think a lot of nonprofits leverage pro bono talent. The reason that people will do pro bono work for your nonprofit varies as to whether it’s a professional firm or students. If you can find an intern and teach them the system he just showed you, they can go in there, and it would give them a project of substance. It would lay out a plan that would help you reach specific types of people. You can use this system whether you’re looking to find donors, board members. It will help you gather the information and put together the things that are important because what you’re doing as a nonprofit leader is something that everybody tries to do on one level or another.
 My friend Danna Olivo for example talks a lot about creating an experience for donors. How do you get them to stay with you? You have to stay connected to them. These are the things that Daniel is talking about: staying connected to people so that they stay with you. Some of the statistics I have seen, Daniel, are that most people keep 55-60% of their donors. You are losing upwards of 40% of their donors annually. What are some of the ways that you think they can eliminate that, using these tools and getting more people?
 Ruke: A lot of it is because they have- It’s twofold. One is what you were speaking to, is that they don’t know where you are with the story. They are not seeing the little wins. If you are not expressing that, they don’t feel like they are walking the journey with you. If they are supporting you, they want to walk that journey with you. If you allow them to keep up with you by communicating with what you’re up to and you get in front of them and use technology to do so, it makes your life easy, and all you have to do is show up as the cheerleader and ambassador that you are. That’s great. That helps.
 The other part of that is the reason why they fall off is sometimes we actually choose too big of a goal. They go, Wow. I don’t know how. You know how sometimes when you are looking at what you are trying to achieve, and you feel insignificant to obtain that, they do, too. How is my support, my contribution, even if it’s $20, how is that going to solve that? They don’t see it. Sometimes you’re not expressing the little steps and little milestones and little goals along the way either so that you clearly tell them what the effect of their support is actually having and accomplishing for the company. That is how you keep them connected.
 Russell: How many people do you see- I know that some organizations use Facebook Live. Have you come across any where you see a nonprofit doing the Live where they thank a donor by name as they have money rolling in?
 Ruke: Yeah. I’m going to go way extreme on you, baby. All right. Twitch TV. What is that? Twitch TV is the YouTube channel for video gamers. While they are branching out, it was solely video games. What they did is created “Letsplays.” That’s a geeky word of Let’s Play Along. It’s letsplays. If you have ever seen a video where the video game is being played, and in the corner, we have our heads in the corner, on my screen I am over here, that’s letsplay. You see the person playing the video game in the corner, and you see the video game they are playing. What that person is doing is playing the video game, but they are actually entertainment value. They are making jokes or talking to the audience.
 By the way, Russ, there is young people who make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year playing video games and what they do is what you just said. They are playing and saying thanks for supporting me, Russ. A lot of people give just to hear their names being shouted out. Playing into the vanity of that.
 You can do that with Facebook Live. Now Facebook Live has features that are experimental where you can actually buy stars. You know how we give hearts and thumbs up. You can give a star. But a star costs you money, real dollars. If it happens, give me a lot of stars. On their gaming platform, they are now doing that. They started rolling that out.
 Russell: it’s really thinking about these things in terms of an investment in time. People that support you, remember the three T’s, time, talent, and treasure. Anybody that is engaged in what you’re doing can help you on some level. The more supporters you have, the easier it will be. More hands makes the work lighter. That’s the way it goes.
 Let’s talk about the people who look at this and say, Well, you know, this all sounds very good, but I’m technologically challenged. It sounds like it’s going to take forever. I don’t know how easy this is. There may be folks with some genuine fears around trying to do some of this stuff. How would you address them, and how would you encourage them to move forward? What sort of suggestions do you have to help them do that?
 Ruke: I am going to come up with a smart alecky answer. Do I have your permission?
 Russell: Go for it.
 Ruke: I listen to a lot of different things. You know a little bit about me. I don’t always talk about this. But one of the people I love listening to is Joel Osteen.
 Russell: Okay.
 Ruke: The message that I was listening to- I listen to a lot of talk radio because I can listen and talk. I can get in my zone and produce my- I can’t listen and talk. I can’t do that. I tell my wife that, but she will just tell you that I can talk. I can work and listen. It doesn’t require any hands.
 If you want it bad enough, you will get over it.  Do you want it bad enough? Do you really want to solve that problem? Do you really want to have the impact on the world that you want to have? If you want it bad enough, you will put the work in. You won’t use that excuse. You’ll learn. What really helps you get there is being very on fire and clear on what your mission is. What you’re doing and why. Constantly having that in mind. Constantly being mindful of that. As you’re doing this, learning Facebook. You know what the impact is going to be. I’m hoping today I bridge for those because I try to keep it- I can get real geeky. I am trying to keep it simple because we are talking about complex things that aren’t that hard for some people, and for others, there are challenges. I am trying to bridge the gap of if I do this, here are some benefits that will happen.
 For very small steps, doing Facebook Live can be challenging for people. If you are watching this, you have some affinity for it, which is awesome. This is the easiest form of getting out there. Show up and tell the stories. If that doesn’t work, you could do that at your local rotary club or different churches. Talk about those stories, the mission, and events. If that’s too much, do it with your networking group. Start telling those little stories of what you’re doing. Instead of talking about what you’re up to, meaning from a brand perspective, what are you trying to cure, that’s important, but for framing. Stop talking about that. Start talking about the little impacts you’re having on your audience. Now people can relate to that. If you can have those conversations in a networking group one on one, from the stages at little events, or big stages, or this virtual stage, if you can talk about the impact you’re having, now people can meet you where you are. If you change that focus, you will be more effective. The conversation of support becomes natural.
 You can get more technological. I do want to backtrack on something. You said, “I will always start with this scarcity mentality.” You said there are people who will tithe their time for you. You used a different word, but it’s the same thing. I challenge you to pay for it. If it’s that important, it should be a line item on your budget because if you do the marketing correctly, and that’s what marketing is. If you do your marketing at all, you’re a step forward to getting more exposure and more results. If you do it correctly, if you listen to what I said and apply what I told you today, you will be doing it correctly, and you will have great results. That’s important. I would actually invest in those things because sometimes what we do is this is where we hit the mentality.
 I’m technically challenged, so I don’t want to look under the hood. I don’t want to have that conversation. Then you have a gap in your understanding. If you are a true leader, a true CEO, a true person that is marching down to solve the world, you owe it to yourself, you have an obligation to close that gap. Not that you have to run your social media every day. That’s not what you’re talking about. But your understanding of it. That’s one thing I train people on. From a CEO level, this is what you need to know as a leader. Not that you need to know all the buttons to hit. That’s okay. But to understand the effectiveness of it, and where your mind needs to be, and more importantly, your voice. You got me preaching again.
 But what happens is I don’t know it, so it’s out of sight, out of mind. And also, I don’t understand it. Here’s a challenge. I don’t know how to get someone to do it, so I am going to find someone to do it for free. Because you don’t value it. Now you have someone working on your behalf, volunteer-wise, tithing their time, because we are pushing it off to someone. But if you’re actually investing in it and hiring someone to do it for you, that’s a better tactic because you will come close because you are paying for it. You will come closer with your gap because it’s their job to help walk you through some of that stuff.
 That’s where that pitfall is. I don’t know anything about it. Do you know something about it? Will you help me do it? You see that delivery there. The relationship is already set off wrong because you are not getting up to speed on it, you are not closing that gap, so that is why a lot of people fail in that area. Those who understand marketing understand the value of it and understand spending a dollar on it, and they are getting the good quality stuff.
 Russell: They key word that you used in that is “investment.” It’s not a cost. A lot of nonprofit leaders look at stuff as a cost. This is an investment of your relationships that are invaluable.
 Speaking of valuable relationships, *sponsor message for Wordsprint*
 Thanks to our sponsors, we get to have people like Daniel Ruke here. WorldDominatorsUnite.com. This is a place to go to get that basic training. He’s got remarkable tools there. Daniel, it’s been a real pleasure.
 Ruke: Can I add one more thing?
 Russell: I wanted to get your closing thoughts that you wanted to leave people with. What’s the biggest takeaway they should have?
 Ruke: I gotta add something. I know the time right now. When you said “investment,” here is a misnomer I want people to understand. I am using my stuff as an example again. When I talk from stage, I hand this stuff out. These are for people who aren’t doing business with me. This is the kind of stuff we create and hand out. We have spent up to $25 per person in a seat. That is my cost. Not getting there, not travel, not the hours to pay me and my team that it takes to make these things and create these unique things. It’s the largest investment that I make.
 Here is what you need to understand. When you are out there getting cold traffic to warm them up, that is the biggest expense you are going to have by far. When you talk about investment, a lot of people go, “Hey, no one bought off of this yet.” You have to build the relationship. It takes time. When you look at the ROI on this stuff, how does it get to the big stuff, too? Once you get the big traction, the big donors, the big numbers, that is where you can trickle it down and say it cost you nothing. It was well paid for and profitable. That is where a lot of people look at these little steps like the free giveaways and go, “How is that going to make us money?” It’s not going to make you money immediately. It’s on the path, on the journey.
 What I’d like to leave you with is that it is a journey. You started out, and you’re doing what you’re doing because you have fire in your bones. I hope it’s still there. If it’s not, go center yourself, think of three words that inspire you to do this because the world needs what you’re doing. You are important. What you are trying to cure, solve, support, and help needs you. If you do not invest in you, with your money and your time, with your platforms, with your marketing, with your organization, if you don’t ask for the money, the support, yep, support liking, but if you don’t ask for the money, you won’t have the impact that you want. That’s a shame, and that’s sad.
 I would say that you are doing the right thing. Keep at it. Take the words. Listen to this a couple times. Apply. If you really want it, you’ll do it. Those who get it done want it the most.
 Russell: Daniel Ruke, you’re a wizard. It’s always a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time and preserving it at such a high level.
 WorldDominatorsUnite.com is where you can get all these tools. ROI, it’s not just return on investment, but for you folks, it’s return on influence, return on impact. You can do that with the right tools.
 Thank you again for joining us on The Nonprofit Exchange. This is Russ Dennis signing off until next week.
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      <pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:18:48 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7ca1559a-b329-11eb-9f0f-dfae340d7c91/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Daniel Ruke Shares His Wisdom On Clarifying Your Nonprofit Brand</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Daniel Ruke: We go so far back, and we know each other so well. You actually know my real name because you said my real name. Daniel’s my real name. Ruke is my last name. As a guy who loves branding, there is a lot of Daniels out there, but there is no Rukes. I attach my identity to my last name. If you’re confused, that’s why because he knows me more than most people.
 I’m an artist privately trained since the third grade. I had a gift. I had really cool parents who supported that gift, and they said this kid has somethin’. They put money out there and invested in me to hone those skills. I graduated as an illustrator from the top illustration school in the United States at that time, Ringling School of Art and Design in Sarasota, Florida. I jumped right out and created my own business. My passion really is I love to wow people. I love creating imagery that evokes emotions, that gains reactions in a storytelling setting. That is what I do today. I do that for my full-service agency, Blink. I actually teach and show up people, I love my fun brand. It’s World Dominating Brand. I think it’s very important that we can design our own world. We have the power to do that and define what that world is and dominate it in a great, positive way. That is a little bit about me.
 I have been married 22 years. I have four beautiful children. I love to play. I am very- I feel I’m very successful because I play. I get to do my dreams for a living, and I love helping others, especially those who want to have huge impact in the nonprofit world. There is a mission behind everybody, there is a story behind everybody’s efforts, there is a heart and desire that is burning in their bones. That fire they want to get out there in the world. Showing up here today to give some of the tools that we use from a marketing and advertising perspective and from a world dominating perspective, I'm excited to share that with you to empower you and your audience to be awesome and effective in an amazing way.
 Russell: Daniel, it’s great to see you. Really it is about a dream. When people step into a space where they want to make a positive difference in the lives of other people, the sky’s the limit. We are facing some huge problems out in society today. It takes big fakers, big dreamers. A lot of times in the grind of serving people, which so many nonprofits do every day, they often lose sight of that dream. That’s a terrible thing to have happen. One of the problems that I’ve seen is I see people doing phenomenal work out there but nobody knows about it. What do you think would be at the root of that?
 Ruke: There’s a mentality of scarcity. There’s a mentality of not worthiness. There’s a mentality of insignificance. When I’m dealing with a leader who’s having that trouble, the trouble is really in their head. It’s what they feel internally. I like to bring them back to the passion of why they are doing what they are doing. They started this mission for a reason. They wanted to change something for a reason. They saw a problem and a solution. It wasn’t just from a business opportunity. It’s more from the heart space, where they want to be effective to solve a problem. When you start doing that, a lot of self-doubt comes into play. What you are trying to cure and solve is so big, how can you do it? That leads to that mentality.
 Then of course trying to get people to rally behind you, to support you in doing that. While a lot of people will support your endeavor, I like that, that’s a good idea, and we encourage you, you have to jump through that like and love perspective and create them as brand partners or donors or supporters, whatever your nonprofit is made up of. That is a hard part. I’ll tell you some of it is because you are doing this out of the goodness of your heart, it’s sometimes hard to ask for the money. There is a guilt. You don’t want to be needy. You don’t want to beg. What I do, I hope that answer is why mentally some people are there.
 What I love to do is I focus on their brand, their branding or brand culture, especially internally. Behind the scenes, they see the mountain here. That’s all they see. They think that you see that mountain with them. You don’t. That’s the mountain they created that they are trying to solve. You are looking at them and watching them take their steps up. When I say you, that’s the outside world. Articulating those steps is very vital in building that connection. When I say “succeeding and growing up in front of your audience,” we don’t always see the great things we’re doing. We only see what’s ahead of us. We’re only problem-solving. We’re empathizing with our cause. Sometimes we get mythically caught up in the cause and become so empathetic that we are sympathetic and we have the similar mentality that infects us, which is not necessarily good. You always have to be that knight in shining armor. While you feel like your steps might be insignificant, they’re not. When you really look at what you’re trying to reach, that jump, that leap, that bridge to get where you want to go is always big. You don’t always know how. That is where that insignificance comes into play and adequacy comes into play.
 What I love to do, and I honestly think this is a good way to do this, is start a journal. Create a journal. Write down what your hopes and desires are for your cause, the recipients of your cause. Then write down some of the case study points of wins. Write down what you’re trying to achieve and what happened. Out of that, you will identify little stories of success. What’s going to help you is if you write that and review it every week, month, or quarter, you will realize that you made a big difference in Sally’s life. But we were so close we didn’t see it. That journal will help you do that. Wow, we helped this family get to the next level! Those are big wins sometimes, but you really don’t see the small steps. What you start doing is look and reflect on those steps. Look at those wins. It takes a lot of little wins. We are always waiting for the big win. Once we get here, then we will show up with our marketing now, then we will show up on social media, then we will start doing announcements, then we will start doing a newsletter when we have these big bragging rights and we put that goal so high. It’s here above the camera. You’re not going to reach it, and no one is going to hear it. You have to talk about the little steps and tell the little stories along the way.
 Of course, in today’s world, with social media and everything that we have, there is no reason why you can’t do it. There is nothing stopping you from doing it except yourself. I can preach, baby. Welcome to the church of Ruke.
 Russell: The mindset is where it’s at.
 Ruke: It is.
 Russell: As far s the organization goes and what we teach at SynerVision is to start from the beginning and build that system. It starts with that dream. You have that dream. You reverse-engineer everything essentially. It’s finding out, bringing the right people on the box, as Jim Collins says in From Good to Great. You don’t have to do everything. The leader gets into the trap where he/she feels like they have to do everything. Here’s the thing that complicates getting the message out there because you want to attract board members, you want to attract volunteers, you want to have donors, you want people that actually use your services. There are so many different people that you have to talk to. The challenge I see folks having is getting the right people on the bus. There is a different message for each type of person. Trying to reach these people is something that a lot of these leaders could use some assistance with. It is about people. It is about stories. People give to people. This is very important. In order for that nonprofit to be effective, they need to reach all of those multiple audiences with the message that resonates with each audience.
 You have been successful. You have done lots of different types of enterprises. You can look at different types of nonprofits. I happen to be on the board of trustees for the church that I attend. While you have certain activities that are church-related, my church does work with homeless programs, with food banks, and a few other agencies in the area. When it comes to messaging and reaching out to these multiple audiences, how would you do it in a scenario with an organization such as a church that works with multiple nonprofits?
 Ruke: You’re getting me to preach here. Let me get up on my pedestal. The challenge with the church specifically is it’s the balance. You’re not really a church. You’re not really a business. Church is sometimes too much of a church, or it’s sometimes too much of a business, and they’re neither. It’s difficult to walk the fine line. When you talk about rallying people behind you, we have to be able to say no. A lot of times we stumble is because we are taking all the Yeses in. You have to be able to say no.
 The opposite side of that is we put so much criteria in front of them to vet them that we actually squash the fire in their bones. That is where a lot of nonprofits actually fail. As you bring people on, you’re building that brand culture. You need to understand what that brand culture stands for and it’s not you. You started it. It’s your vision. But it’s not your organization, right? It’s the donors’. It’s the receivers’ organization. Once you build a brand culture, understand how you are there to serve and to contribute. Now you are always talking about that. It’s never about you and me. You are able to say, “Here’s our brand. Here’s what I stand for. How do you fit into it?” Now all you have to judge is the commitment.
 Here’s the hard part. When they want to do something on their own, oh, you get all scared. It’s your baby. It’s not your organization. You started it. You’re the visionary. But it’s the brand that matters. What you actually get to have a conversation with that person that has all the fire in their bones they want to do stuff. You want to judge if they are committed. That is a proper way to vet them. How much time? What can you do? How much money? What kind of effort? Great. To make sure they will be there. They will finish what they start. Generally, it’s us as leaders of those organizations that get in the way that don’t allow them to finish.
 What your conversation is, how does that fit within the brand. That can be missions. That can be what your goals are. How does that fit within the brand? As long as it’s doing that, you can give them the freedom to go out there, trust their brand is being represented properly. Getting clear on that is important.
 Russell: It is about the brand. The first step to building a high-performance nonprofit is to have a solid foundation. This is where that branding piece comes in because we look at the core values that drive what the leadership team thinks. Who are the people you serve? Who needs you? It’s not about you. The greater mission is where that focus is. You have to determine what are we about? Who do we serve? What is the problem we solve? Why do we do it in a way that nobody else can? That is what it becomes about. That becomes the engine. When you mentioned leaders, I see that leaders have a tough time. You know the ones that have the biggest struggle are the ones that start it, especially after it starts to take off. There is a really good book called The Founder’s Dilemma [by Noam Wasserman] This is something that happens not just in business. To a lot of people, branding is a business term. That’s not necessarily what branding is. Branding isn’t peculiar to business. It’s really who you are and what you’re about. Why do so many people miss the boat on branding? Why do you think that is so misunderstood?
 Ruke: That’s right out there with the word “marketing.” The definition of branding is the activity of marketing. It’s confusing because you have a brand. Most people think that’s a logo. That’s a piece of it. We are building a brand. That’s kind of a company. That’s a piece of it. In my opinion, it really isn’t. The brand is again the exercise of marketing. How you show up. It’s an experience. When you nail down what your internal branding is, what your brand culture is, it’s a set of missions, experiences that you’re trying to achieve, that you stand for. The external branding is the activity of marketing. Once you understand that, I am going to answer your question, that conversation shifts always toward that. You as the founder can release a lot of that control because it’s now about the brand, not about me and my ideas. People who have the most trouble are the smartest people, are the most caring people because they care so much. You have to understand, identify what that brand is, what that stands for, what that experience is doing. Then you can focus on that, and it takes you out of the equation quite frankly.
 But people get confused on branding because it’s an ethereal thing. It’s an emotion. A lot of that emotion is memories and promises of what that experience is. Since it’s ethereal, it’s hard to pinpoint. There are steps to identifying branding: just like what you said, what do we stand for? What are our goals? What is the logo? What are our colors? How is that spread to the world? How is that communicated to the world? How do we look at it internally? In brand words, what do we stand for?
 I have an exercise that helps you discover what your brand words are. It takes all this big concept to three little words. I will tell you mine right now: creative, empowering, and entertaining. Every company that I own, every company that I start has to fit into those three things. If not, it will be out of sequence with me. I hope you see I’m creative. Empowering, I am giving you a lesson right now. Entertaining, I hope I’m making you laugh. So everything I do fits in that. It takes our brand and the essence of that brand and simplifies it. Sometimes that is the best help they can get. What are those three words? You can always go how does that communication fit within creative, empowering, and entertaining? It can fit maybe two, but not one. Your CFO. Don’t want creative. You don’t need every bit of it. If you really do your communications, you can always look at it and say, “That’s a great idea. How does it fit into those words?” If it doesn’t speak to all three, it’s not a good fit. Get rid of it. Or if it’s a communication, and you’re going to show up on Facebook, can we show up in a creative, empowering, and entertaining way? You guys are great at that. If you can, it’s great, that’s a great initiative. If you remember those three words and hone those three words in and own them, you can always point to that and challenge and judge everything you’re doing from what you wear, what you say, what medium you use, what kind of newsletters you put out there, what Facebook Lives you put out there. It really helps you stay on track.
 And people can take the ethereal thing and judge themselves to see what they are doing. We rely so heavily upon them.
 Russell: That’s great. It’s all about who we are. Boiling it down, in the book, why should I choose you, they boil it down to seven words that drive why you do your business. Doesn’t necessarily show up on the slogan. The idea you’re talking about is just the same. The definition of why you do what you do, and it directs everything you do. Some people are really good. They get this part down. Oh, great. Now we know what it’s about. Now, who are some of the people we want to reach? How do we find out who we want to reach? Well, I gotta recruit some more board members. I gotta find some volunteers. How do I find out where they are, and how do I get to them? Then what do I say when I get there?
 Ruke: Yeah. That comes down to choosing the right people. I like to look at board members, and the reason why you bring board members is they are giving money or they are a point of credibility that allow you to get money. This is for nonprofits. That’s why they’re there. If they just want to give and they are not going to do that, they are more volunteers. Again, what I love to do is talk about the mission and the brand. This is what we stand for. This is how we’re applying ourselves to the world. Of course, this is what our goal is. This is what the cause is behind it. You have to see if they resonate with that and have the same passion. They have to have the same passion. What level of commitment are they willing to give? You might have a lot of people who want to commit a lot, but they aren’t in sync with that, so you have to say no, or vice versa.
 Ho w to communicate that. Here’s the truth. If you go back to the first part of our conversation about the little stories of success, and you start talking about them, first of all, you the leader, whomever the voice is, the communicator, the marketing director, the founder, once you connect back to why you’re doing what you’re doing and focus in on those brand words, to get really centered, then look at those little successes. Forget about the big monster. It’s that cloud that hangs over you. Forget about that. Just the little successes right now. You start sharing those successes with your world. You will attract the right people, especially if you show up within your three brand words. My perspective. If you show up in an entertaining way, if you show up in an empowering way, if you show up in a creative way, you will attract people who are attracted to that. If you articulate what you are trying to do, they will walk beside you. But they also want to see success. The reason why those little stories. I am going to tell you how you apply some of those to help with the marketing part.
 When you start articulating those stories of success, they see their investment of time, money, and energy grow. They are seeing tangibility to the efforts that they are doing. That is so important. Those little stories of success can show up with Facebook Lives. Hey, we’re here helping the kids today. Thank you donors because you have been able to put backpacks. We’re going back to school, right? We were able to give 50 backpacks to this grade school. You guys did it. Thank you. That’s a huge success. People feel good about that. It could be a newsletter. It could be your Facebook pictures and posts.
 I focus on Facebook. I will tell you some tactics here as we get into this. I focus on that because it is the easiest, most successful media we have. It is the most visited website out there, so you might as well. Almost everybody is on there. I would also say there are other platforms, but make sure your audience is there. You want to reach the people you want to reach. There is definitely other platforms like Snapchat and Instagram. Depends who your supporters really are. Quite frankly, you might have a platform where you speak to your supporters. Some of us are older, so that’s Facebook, but your recipients of your supports might be on Snapchat. You might want to separate the way you communicate. Here’s showing how we support. Here’s our actual support. But that might be a deeper dive.
 Russell: Success leaves some clues. The important thing is really to be aware of where the people that you want to reach are at. Having a leadership that is committed to doing that is really important. Everybody you talk to may fall into a different category. You want three things from people. All three would be lovely: time, talent, and treasure. If you can get them all, beautiful. But everybody can serve in some capacity. What is important to some may not be important to others. There is an extra level of commitment that you need out of your board members. They have to be committed. Once you figure out what it is that you stand for and what that thing is that drives everything you do, it boils down to making sure everybody is singing off the same sheet of music. The guy who is sweeping the floor should be able to tell you the mission with as much skill as your executive director because everybody’s enthusiastic about it. Everybody has a way to serve in a way that matches their desires. It’s matching all of those desires.
 When it comes to tactics, it’s really about getting into these different places. Stories matter. You got the CFO type that you mentioned before. They are all about the numbers. But when you translate the dollars you raise to the number of backpacks you purchase and the number of laptops that the school is going to have that the children have access to, you’re not only showing the impact with the dollars, but you’re impacting lives. That is the double bottom line that nonprofits- You are providing value out there. It’s important to talk about the difference you make and that you’re providing value. You don’t need to show up with a hat in hand. You are there to partner with people to make a real difference in your community. There are a lot of tools out there to do that and ways to talk about doing that. That is your wheelhouse. It’s painting a picture for people so that they understand how what they do matters. Every time we contact people, we don’t have to ask for something. We can tell them how what they have already done has made so much difference. Hey, you can do more. The more that you do, the more people that we help. It’s really getting in there and not being afraid to look at things like marketing because we have to create success systems as leaders. We have to give people tools to talk with, tools to go out and reach out to other people with, and make it personal because everything, whether your tax status is profit-making or nonprofit, it’s all about relationships. People work with others that they know, like, and trust.
 Ruke: I agree. Let me share with you some tactics on how to do that. Is that cool?
 Russell: That’s outstanding. I would like to see that.
 Ruke: Ready to learn some cool stuff? First of all, I want to say this. If I go through this, you can ask me questions. I will tell you to go to WorldDominatorsUnite.com. That is our group. We can let you in. I will rattle some stuff off. You will probably go, I have to take notes. I want to give that to you because your mission is very important. What you have in your mind and your ideas and what you are trying to do is absolutely correct. I want you to be able to have the great impact you were born for.
 That said, one of these is we might sometimes have a problem asking for support. We don’t want to constantly ask for money. Especially in the digital world, one thing we love to do is, “Hey, here are a couple ways to support us.” This is what we are trying to do. Here is how you can participate. One easy way is to like our fan page. That’s it. Right. That is small. Then you can build. Maybe volunteer, or donate. When you’re asking for support, it’s not always give me money. Like our fan page. Share what we’re doing. That’s awesome. What that does is that triggers people to go, Oh, I’m involved now. I’m invested. I do like your fan page. By the way, let me back this up. I am talking about your Facebook fan page, your business page. That said, or whatever social media you’re talking about. Join us here. Support us by liking us and subscribing. That’s huge because now you can build a relationship you’re talking about. When you make that request, there are three ways to support us: this, this, and this. You should always get a yes. If you don’t, they don’t resonate, so don’t waste your time. That allows you to grow in to the bigger question of donate. If you already have that relationship, you have built that cold relationship to a warm relationship to a hot relationship, then you can make that big request. Let it sit there.
 Here are some technology tactics I would do. The reason why you want to like, and I am going to go through a journey. This will be a customer journey. The reason why you want them to like the Facebook fan page business page is so that you can retarget them. Now you are going what does that mean? That is talking about running ads. I will get to that last. Running ads on Facebook. That is what you want to do. A lot of people go, I want to see my likes. I want them high because it makes you feel good. I am not saying from vanity. It’s not that. The reason why you specifically want that is because you want to be able to retarget them. Get some likes. Then run ads that are just about how awesome the mission is. No request. It’s only a brand awareness. What you’re doing is saying, “Like us, love us.” What you can do within Facebook specifically, and it’s a deep dive, and we are doing this training so I am welcome to do it. It’s free training. WorldDominatorsUnite.com. Happy to show you some of these techniques.
 What you are going to do is when you place an ad, and it could be a video of you talking about your mission, what you’re doing, some cool things, some stories, and you can spend dollars on that and get it out to the world. When you do that, there is data points that you can check off that are people who are highly likely to support other nonprofits. People who are interested in X, Y, and Z. Now you are specifically targeting people that have not only habits that might give to you, but also have interest. If you come out there with your story first, these stories of successes, you are creating brand awareness. As you have done that, you then can follow that up, so you have this brand awareness stuff, with the same group because they have liked your page. You can now follow up with requests for support. Support us. Then they hit that button, Yes, I want to support you. They can come to a landing page that has several ways to support us, and one can be donating.
 The key to that is get people to like your business page/fan page on Facebook. Then run ads talking about how awesome the mission is. No requests. They’re just top of mind. A third would be here is a specific request to support us. That support is three different ways. They might have already liked it. Who cares? It looks like they have helped you. Volunteer, support us, give us money.
 Russell: That’s what it’s all about.
 Ruke: And that’s automated.
 Russell: It’s making it easy. What you just illustrated is how making it easy for people to act actually increases that support. Make sure you visit WorldDominatorsUnited. Getting out there, making it easy to support you is really important. it’s like non-ask events when you do things live. But it’s all about building that relationship. That’s one way to do it. Tell us more, Daniel.
 Ruke: Here’s another secret sauce. These are my little ninja tricks. Understand if you set what I did, it’s not complicated. Some people might think they have clarity now, and others aren’t sure. It’s not complicated. But once you understand that cycle of we are going to market our brand to the world, then we will retarget them with asks of support, all you have to show up with is your story. Now that’s working, all you show up with is, Here’s a small win. Here’s another small win. Here’s another small win. Or maybe your thoughts. I was reflecting with someone who we’re helping, and it meant a lot to him, so thank you. We have the small ones. Again, don’t get caught in the mindset of, I have to share big wins. It’s the small ones that matter. We’re usually too hard on ourselves.
 Here’s another ninja trick. I know you, my friend. I know that we go to places together, right? We network in places. Most nonprofits have somewhere where you’re networking. Here’s what I would do. This is real ninja stuff. Are you ready? I do this. It’s so much fun. I’ll tell you inside of some things we have done because of this.
 I would look for a place for you to network.
 Russell: Okay.
 *Technical difficulties*
 Ruke: You missed my ninja trick!
 Russell: Now you have to go to WorldDominatorsUnited and sign up to find out what the trick is.
 Ruke: No, this is important. Where’d I leave you, baby?
 Russell: I’m not exactly sure. It got stuck there.
 Ruke: It did? Here we go. I’ll kinda start the technique over again. I saw your face freeze, and I wasn’t sure. You go to a networking event. They meet weekly, monthly, or quarterly. This technique really doesn’t work anything more than that. You go there. You collect business cards. Then you come home, and either you do this yourself, have a virtual assistant or assistant take those business cards in, and invite them to like your page. Some you will have to friend, which is cool. By the way, what you said, Russell, those who give, you give to people you know you like. They gotta be your friends. Does that make sense? There is a reason for that relationship. What you do is invite them to like your page. Now what you do then, imagine this, Russell. You go to a networking group. Say you meet 30 people. Now you may have 30 people who like your page. That doesn’t matter. Now you run ads a week before going to the event. It’s just brand awareness. Hey, look at my page. This is a great win. We helped this family out. Thank you for this support. No request. It’s just that.
 Here’s what happens. All those people who liked the page are now giving all these ads. You can spend $100 on this. It doesn’t have to be exorbitant because you are only trying to reach a handful of people. You’re not trying to reach the masses at this point. What happens is when you show up, the buzz that you create is tremendous. You are going to have people walk up to you and say, “I see you all over Facebook. I see all the great stuff you’re doing.” “I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Have you ever thought of supporting? Do you want to help? You seem excited about this.” See how that works.
 That’s how you can use social media online in an offline networking situation. You constantly do that. Every time you show up, you have your campaigns going, and then you have these people who see you. They get to know you more. What happens is their confidence in you and love and support for your endeavor goes up, and their barriers go down. That is when you can start making real requests. People will come to you and say, “How can I support you?”
 When I started speaking, here’s proof of this, Russell. When I started speaking, I did this. There’s a networking group that you and I both love tremendously called CEO Space International. When I had the great honor of being asked to talk, I did this. I showed up, and everybody knew who I was. Why? Because I was targeting you.
 Russell: Yeah. You seize control of Facebook. This is something that Daniel started several years ago to become more effective and to find ways to use this effectively. What a lot of agencies do, they look at everything as a cause. If nobody knows about what you’re doing, you’re not going to reach anybody. You have to invest on the front end more in the way of time is what you’ll have to invest. But you’ll have to, in order to stay top of mind and get out there, and I’ll be talking a little bit about that with one of our sponsors. It’s being top of mind, getting out there. Sometimes a nonprofit doesn’t have the resources, but these techniques that you have just learned are something you can start doing today.
 Let’s look at an organization and say either one of two things is taking place. Maybe they got a little bit to invest, but they don’t have the skills or the knowledge to do it. Or they have gone out and thrown some money at Facebook ads. I have spent quite a bit. I don’t seem to be getting any traction. With those techniques, there is a logical sequence that you follow and you got loads of followers. What would be a logical sequence you would have somebody in that instance follow to ramp that up?
 Ruke: 80% of your business is going to come from existing business and people you know. That is what I call warm and hot traffic, leads. What a lot of people come in the mindset of is that 20% is cold. That is the most expensive. You are going to spend 80% of your dollars getting that 20%, but you can see over time how that grows a business. There is not a silver bullet. A lot of people go, “I want to spend a couple hundred bucks and get brand new people in.” I showed you a scenario that doesn’t work. I am also saying that you want to use those tools and techniques to support your existing endeavors. We don’t want to throw everything away and start all new, unless you are trying to go big fast and you have the wherewithal to do so.
 By asking people first to like your page and invite them on Facebook to do so, don’t go around giving them a card and saying to like your page. No one is going to do that. I am talking you go on it, and you type it out, and you invite them. Once you have done that, now you can spend very low dollars because you are only reaching a handful of people. That supports your existing endeavors. Does that make sense? That is one key to step into there.
 As you want to grow, you don’t want to sit there and be stuck at a computer all day. There are automated systems for this. If you are talking about the smaller end, you have HootSuite, Sprowt Social, which helps you with social media stuff and getting it out there on platforms. You can level that up with automated marketing stuff called AutoPilotHQ.com, which I love. It helps build out customer journeys. Once someone comes in and opts in, they get an email or a text or whatever. Let that relationship work itself. One of the higher ends is HubSpot, which creates all your marketing and all your emails and your ads and all that fun stuff. You can go deep real fast.
 But the little steps are be clear on your mission and what you are trying to do. I will tell you some of the stuff I like to do is education. I challenge nonprofits not just to sit there and tell their opinion and tell why they are doing it, but also offer some education on how what they are doing can make every person better by X, Y, and Z. That is one thing we do.
 I’ll pull it right now. You have received this before. When we show up, this is our World Domination package. In it are these cheat sheets. That is what you were talking about. These things are obviously taking time to build out, but these are our handouts. We talk about it costing money. This is not inexpensive. When I talk, everybody in my talk gets a whole packet like this around the subject matter that they can implement. Creating some cheat sheet. All you have to do is talk about those cheat sheets, those white papers. There are a lot of words. The secret formula for how to accomplish something. Whatever the education platform. It might be a video series to help your audience. As you do that, a lot of people who are now recipients of your nonprofit could become donors on small levels because they felt it, they felt effective, they felt like they had gotten use out of it. The big deep dive to solve their problems. You are educating them to what I call symptoms.
 I am pulling up a random one. How to Create Lead Generation. It’s what we talked about. Build out a persona. What you want to give to them for free. And a landing page. It tells you how to do it.
 But when you have that kind of information, you could give it out to people. Yes, it takes time and money to do that. But when it is received, they get to know you. They become affected in a positive way of the intellectual property, the systems and processes, your knowledge, you’re preaching your teaching, and they become fans. Now the next conversation is you want to support this so others can have it. That is when you get them in. Some of these people might not have a lot of money, so you can support Facebook and like us on your social platforms, or donate $20. It’s easy. It’s not hard to accomplish that. Actually grows your fan base with great value. Does that make sense?
 Russell: That’s what it’s all about. The word “value” is not used often in these circuits. Bringing value to people you serve, how they define it depends on how they relate to you. Those are parts of the stories you want to weave into the fabric of who you are and the difference you are making. What is the value? People will tell you what is valuable to them. You overdeliver and underpromise on that value. You demonstrate that impact. Those tools, I’ve sat through one of the early sessions you did when you first developed that system. It’s better now than it ever was. It’s remarkable. If you sit and take time to go through that and put a system together and find ways to give people value, and that’s talking about what you do and what’s important to them, using a system a lot like this one. It’s perfect. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel. World Dominators Unite. They will walk you through those tools. This is where we put in the time. This is a great project.
 If you’re looking at attracting support. One of the best kept secrets is pro bono. I don’t think a lot of nonprofits leverage pro bono talent. The reason that people will do pro bono work for your nonprofit varies as to whether it’s a professional firm or students. If you can find an intern and teach them the system he just showed you, they can go in there, and it would give them a project of substance. It would lay out a plan that would help you reach specific types of people. You can use this system whether you’re looking to find donors, board members. It will help you gather the information and put together the things that are important because what you’re doing as a nonprofit leader is something that everybody tries to do on one level or another.
 My friend Danna Olivo for example talks a lot about creating an experience for donors. How do you get them to stay with you? You have to stay connected to them. These are the things that Daniel is talking about: staying connected to people so that they stay with you. Some of the statistics I have seen, Daniel, are that most people keep 55-60% of their donors. You are losing upwards of 40% of their donors annually. What are some of the ways that you think they can eliminate that, using these tools and getting more people?
 Ruke: A lot of it is because they have- It’s twofold. One is what you were speaking to, is that they don’t know where you are with the story. They are not seeing the little wins. If you are not expressing that, they don’t feel like they are walking the journey with you. If they are supporting you, they want to walk that journey with you. If you allow them to keep up with you by communicating with what you’re up to and you get in front of them and use technology to do so, it makes your life easy, and all you have to do is show up as the cheerleader and ambassador that you are. That’s great. That helps.
 The other part of that is the reason why they fall off is sometimes we actually choose too big of a goal. They go, Wow. I don’t know how. You know how sometimes when you are looking at what you are trying to achieve, and you feel insignificant to obtain that, they do, too. How is my support, my contribution, even if it’s $20, how is that going to solve that? They don’t see it. Sometimes you’re not expressing the little steps and little milestones and little goals along the way either so that you clearly tell them what the effect of their support is actually having and accomplishing for the company. That is how you keep them connected.
 Russell: How many people do you see- I know that some organizations use Facebook Live. Have you come across any where you see a nonprofit doing the Live where they thank a donor by name as they have money rolling in?
 Ruke: Yeah. I’m going to go way extreme on you, baby. All right. Twitch TV. What is that? Twitch TV is the YouTube channel for video gamers. While they are branching out, it was solely video games. What they did is created “Letsplays.” That’s a geeky word of Let’s Play Along. It’s letsplays. If you have ever seen a video where the video game is being played, and in the corner, we have our heads in the corner, on my screen I am over here, that’s letsplay. You see the person playing the video game in the corner, and you see the video game they are playing. What that person is doing is playing the video game, but they are actually entertainment value. They are making jokes or talking to the audience.
 By the way, Russ, there is young people who make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year playing video games and what they do is what you just said. They are playing and saying thanks for supporting me, Russ. A lot of people give just to hear their names being shouted out. Playing into the vanity of that.
 You can do that with Facebook Live. Now Facebook Live has features that are experimental where you can actually buy stars. You know how we give hearts and thumbs up. You can give a star. But a star costs you money, real dollars. If it happens, give me a lot of stars. On their gaming platform, they are now doing that. They started rolling that out.
 Russell: it’s really thinking about these things in terms of an investment in time. People that support you, remember the three T’s, time, talent, and treasure. Anybody that is engaged in what you’re doing can help you on some level. The more supporters you have, the easier it will be. More hands makes the work lighter. That’s the way it goes.
 Let’s talk about the people who look at this and say, Well, you know, this all sounds very good, but I’m technologically challenged. It sounds like it’s going to take forever. I don’t know how easy this is. There may be folks with some genuine fears around trying to do some of this stuff. How would you address them, and how would you encourage them to move forward? What sort of suggestions do you have to help them do that?
 Ruke: I am going to come up with a smart alecky answer. Do I have your permission?
 Russell: Go for it.
 Ruke: I listen to a lot of different things. You know a little bit about me. I don’t always talk about this. But one of the people I love listening to is Joel Osteen.
 Russell: Okay.
 Ruke: The message that I was listening to- I listen to a lot of talk radio because I can listen and talk. I can get in my zone and produce my- I can’t listen and talk. I can’t do that. I tell my wife that, but she will just tell you that I can talk. I can work and listen. It doesn’t require any hands.
 If you want it bad enough, you will get over it.  Do you want it bad enough? Do you really want to solve that problem? Do you really want to have the impact on the world that you want to have? If you want it bad enough, you will put the work in. You won’t use that excuse. You’ll learn. What really helps you get there is being very on fire and clear on what your mission is. What you’re doing and why. Constantly having that in mind. Constantly being mindful of that. As you’re doing this, learning Facebook. You know what the impact is going to be. I’m hoping today I bridge for those because I try to keep it- I can get real geeky. I am trying to keep it simple because we are talking about complex things that aren’t that hard for some people, and for others, there are challenges. I am trying to bridge the gap of if I do this, here are some benefits that will happen.
 For very small steps, doing Facebook Live can be challenging for people. If you are watching this, you have some affinity for it, which is awesome. This is the easiest form of getting out there. Show up and tell the stories. If that doesn’t work, you could do that at your local rotary club or different churches. Talk about those stories, the mission, and events. If that’s too much, do it with your networking group. Start telling those little stories of what you’re doing. Instead of talking about what you’re up to, meaning from a brand perspective, what are you trying to cure, that’s important, but for framing. Stop talking about that. Start talking about the little impacts you’re having on your audience. Now people can relate to that. If you can have those conversations in a networking group one on one, from the stages at little events, or big stages, or this virtual stage, if you can talk about the impact you’re having, now people can meet you where you are. If you change that focus, you will be more effective. The conversation of support becomes natural.
 You can get more technological. I do want to backtrack on something. You said, “I will always start with this scarcity mentality.” You said there are people who will tithe their time for you. You used a different word, but it’s the same thing. I challenge you to pay for it. If it’s that important, it should be a line item on your budget because if you do the marketing correctly, and that’s what marketing is. If you do your marketing at all, you’re a step forward to getting more exposure and more results. If you do it correctly, if you listen to what I said and apply what I told you today, you will be doing it correctly, and you will have great results. That’s important. I would actually invest in those things because sometimes what we do is this is where we hit the mentality.
 I’m technically challenged, so I don’t want to look under the hood. I don’t want to have that conversation. Then you have a gap in your understanding. If you are a true leader, a true CEO, a true person that is marching down to solve the world, you owe it to yourself, you have an obligation to close that gap. Not that you have to run your social media every day. That’s not what you’re talking about. But your understanding of it. That’s one thing I train people on. From a CEO level, this is what you need to know as a leader. Not that you need to know all the buttons to hit. That’s okay. But to understand the effectiveness of it, and where your mind needs to be, and more importantly, your voice. You got me preaching again.
 But what happens is I don’t know it, so it’s out of sight, out of mind. And also, I don’t understand it. Here’s a challenge. I don’t know how to get someone to do it, so I am going to find someone to do it for free. Because you don’t value it. Now you have someone working on your behalf, volunteer-wise, tithing their time, because we are pushing it off to someone. But if you’re actually investing in it and hiring someone to do it for you, that’s a better tactic because you will come close because you are paying for it. You will come closer with your gap because it’s their job to help walk you through some of that stuff.
 That’s where that pitfall is. I don’t know anything about it. Do you know something about it? Will you help me do it? You see that delivery there. The relationship is already set off wrong because you are not getting up to speed on it, you are not closing that gap, so that is why a lot of people fail in that area. Those who understand marketing understand the value of it and understand spending a dollar on it, and they are getting the good quality stuff.
 Russell: They key word that you used in that is “investment.” It’s not a cost. A lot of nonprofit leaders look at stuff as a cost. This is an investment of your relationships that are invaluable.
 Speaking of valuable relationships, *sponsor message for Wordsprint*
 Thanks to our sponsors, we get to have people like Daniel Ruke here. WorldDominatorsUnite.com. This is a place to go to get that basic training. He’s got remarkable tools there. Daniel, it’s been a real pleasure.
 Ruke: Can I add one more thing?
 Russell: I wanted to get your closing thoughts that you wanted to leave people with. What’s the biggest takeaway they should have?
 Ruke: I gotta add something. I know the time right now. When you said “investment,” here is a misnomer I want people to understand. I am using my stuff as an example again. When I talk from stage, I hand this stuff out. These are for people who aren’t doing business with me. This is the kind of stuff we create and hand out. We have spent up to $25 per person in a seat. That is my cost. Not getting there, not travel, not the hours to pay me and my team that it takes to make these things and create these unique things. It’s the largest investment that I make.
 Here is what you need to understand. When you are out there getting cold traffic to warm them up, that is the biggest expense you are going to have by far. When you talk about investment, a lot of people go, “Hey, no one bought off of this yet.” You have to build the relationship. It takes time. When you look at the ROI on this stuff, how does it get to the big stuff, too? Once you get the big traction, the big donors, the big numbers, that is where you can trickle it down and say it cost you nothing. It was well paid for and profitable. That is where a lot of people look at these little steps like the free giveaways and go, “How is that going to make us money?” It’s not going to make you money immediately. It’s on the path, on the journey.
 What I’d like to leave you with is that it is a journey. You started out, and you’re doing what you’re doing because you have fire in your bones. I hope it’s still there. If it’s not, go center yourself, think of three words that inspire you to do this because the world needs what you’re doing. You are important. What you are trying to cure, solve, support, and help needs you. If you do not invest in you, with your money and your time, with your platforms, with your marketing, with your organization, if you don’t ask for the money, the support, yep, support liking, but if you don’t ask for the money, you won’t have the impact that you want. That’s a shame, and that’s sad.
 I would say that you are doing the right thing. Keep at it. Take the words. Listen to this a couple times. Apply. If you really want it, you’ll do it. Those who get it done want it the most.
 Russell: Daniel Ruke, you’re a wizard. It’s always a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time and preserving it at such a high level.
 WorldDominatorsUnite.com is where you can get all these tools. ROI, it’s not just return on investment, but for you folks, it’s return on influence, return on impact. You can do that with the right tools.
 Thank you again for joining us on The Nonprofit Exchange. This is Russ Dennis signing off until next week.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Daniel Ruke:</strong> We go so far back, and we know each other so well. You actually know my real name because you said my real name. Daniel’s my real name. Ruke is my last name. As a guy who loves branding, there is a lot of Daniels out there, but there is no Rukes. I attach my identity to my last name. If you’re confused, that’s why because he knows me more than most people.</p> <p>I’m an artist privately trained since the third grade. I had a gift. I had really cool parents who supported that gift, and they said this kid has somethin’. They put money out there and invested in me to hone those skills. I graduated as an illustrator from the top illustration school in the United States at that time, Ringling School of Art and Design in Sarasota, Florida. I jumped right out and created my own business. My passion really is I love to wow people. I love creating imagery that evokes emotions, that gains reactions in a storytelling setting. That is what I do today. I do that for my full-service agency, Blink. I actually teach and show up people, I love my fun brand. It’s World Dominating Brand. I think it’s very important that we can design our own world. We have the power to do that and define what that world is and dominate it in a great, positive way. That is a little bit about me.</p> <p>I have been married 22 years. I have four beautiful children. I love to play. I am very- I feel I’m very successful because I play. I get to do my dreams for a living, and I love helping others, especially those who want to have huge impact in the nonprofit world. There is a mission behind everybody, there is a story behind everybody’s efforts, there is a heart and desire that is burning in their bones. That fire they want to get out there in the world. Showing up here today to give some of the tools that we use from a marketing and advertising perspective and from a world dominating perspective, I'm excited to share that with you to empower you and your audience to be awesome and effective in an amazing way.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Daniel, it’s great to see you. Really it is about a dream. When people step into a space where they want to make a positive difference in the lives of other people, the sky’s the limit. We are facing some huge problems out in society today. It takes big fakers, big dreamers. A lot of times in the grind of serving people, which so many nonprofits do every day, they often lose sight of that dream. That’s a terrible thing to have happen. One of the problems that I’ve seen is I see people doing phenomenal work out there but nobody knows about it. What do you think would be at the root of that?</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> There’s a mentality of scarcity. There’s a mentality of not worthiness. There’s a mentality of insignificance. When I’m dealing with a leader who’s having that trouble, the trouble is really in their head. It’s what they feel internally. I like to bring them back to the passion of why they are doing what they are doing. They started this mission for a reason. They wanted to change something for a reason. They saw a problem and a solution. It wasn’t just from a business opportunity. It’s more from the heart space, where they want to be effective to solve a problem. When you start doing that, a lot of self-doubt comes into play. What you are trying to cure and solve is so big, how can you do it? That leads to that mentality.</p> <p>Then of course trying to get people to rally behind you, to support you in doing that. While a lot of people will support your endeavor, I like that, that’s a good idea, and we encourage you, you have to jump through that like and love perspective and create them as brand partners or donors or supporters, whatever your nonprofit is made up of. That is a hard part. I’ll tell you some of it is because you are doing this out of the goodness of your heart, it’s sometimes hard to ask for the money. There is a guilt. You don’t want to be needy. You don’t want to beg. What I do, I hope that answer is why mentally some people are there.</p> <p>What I love to do is I focus on their brand, their branding or brand culture, especially internally. Behind the scenes, they see the mountain here. That’s all they see. They think that you see that mountain with them. You don’t. That’s the mountain they created that they are trying to solve. You are looking at them and watching them take their steps up. When I say you, that’s the outside world. Articulating those steps is very vital in building that connection. When I say “succeeding and growing up in front of your audience,” we don’t always see the great things we’re doing. We only see what’s ahead of us. We’re only problem-solving. We’re empathizing with our cause. Sometimes we get mythically caught up in the cause and become so empathetic that we are sympathetic and we have the similar mentality that infects us, which is not necessarily good. You always have to be that knight in shining armor. While you feel like your steps might be insignificant, they’re not. When you really look at what you’re trying to reach, that jump, that leap, that bridge to get where you want to go is always big. You don’t always know how. That is where that insignificance comes into play and adequacy comes into play.</p> <p>What I love to do, and I honestly think this is a good way to do this, is start a journal. Create a journal. Write down what your hopes and desires are for your cause, the recipients of your cause. Then write down some of the case study points of wins. Write down what you’re trying to achieve and what happened. Out of that, you will identify little stories of success. What’s going to help you is if you write that and review it every week, month, or quarter, you will realize that you made a big difference in Sally’s life. But we were so close we didn’t see it. That journal will help you do that. Wow, we helped this family get to the next level! Those are big wins sometimes, but you really don’t see the small steps. What you start doing is look and reflect on those steps. Look at those wins. It takes a lot of little wins. We are always waiting for the big win. Once we get here, then we will show up with our marketing now, then we will show up on social media, then we will start doing announcements, then we will start doing a newsletter when we have these big bragging rights and we put that goal so high. It’s here above the camera. You’re not going to reach it, and no one is going to hear it. You have to talk about the little steps and tell the little stories along the way.</p> <p>Of course, in today’s world, with social media and everything that we have, there is no reason why you can’t do it. There is nothing stopping you from doing it except yourself. I can preach, baby. Welcome to the church of Ruke.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The mindset is where it’s at.</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> It is.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> As far s the organization goes and what we teach at SynerVision is to start from the beginning and build that system. It starts with that dream. You have that dream. You reverse-engineer everything essentially. It’s finding out, bringing the right people on the box, as Jim Collins says in <em>From Good to Great.</em> You don’t have to do everything. The leader gets into the trap where he/she feels like they have to do everything. Here’s the thing that complicates getting the message out there because you want to attract board members, you want to attract volunteers, you want to have donors, you want people that actually use your services. There are so many different people that you have to talk to. The challenge I see folks having is getting the right people on the bus. There is a different message for each type of person. Trying to reach these people is something that a lot of these leaders could use some assistance with. It is about people. It is about stories. People give to people. This is very important. In order for that nonprofit to be effective, they need to reach all of those multiple audiences with the message that resonates with each audience.</p> <p>You have been successful. You have done lots of different types of enterprises. You can look at different types of nonprofits. I happen to be on the board of trustees for the church that I attend. While you have certain activities that are church-related, my church does work with homeless programs, with food banks, and a few other agencies in the area. When it comes to messaging and reaching out to these multiple audiences, how would you do it in a scenario with an organization such as a church that works with multiple nonprofits?</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> You’re getting me to preach here. Let me get up on my pedestal. The challenge with the church specifically is it’s the balance. You’re not really a church. You’re not really a business. Church is sometimes too much of a church, or it’s sometimes too much of a business, and they’re neither. It’s difficult to walk the fine line. When you talk about rallying people behind you, we have to be able to say no. A lot of times we stumble is because we are taking all the Yeses in. You have to be able to say no.</p> <p>The opposite side of that is we put so much criteria in front of them to vet them that we actually squash the fire in their bones. That is where a lot of nonprofits actually fail. As you bring people on, you’re building that brand culture. You need to understand what that brand culture stands for and it’s not you. You started it. It’s your vision. But it’s not your organization, right? It’s the donors’. It’s the receivers’ organization. Once you build a brand culture, understand how you are there to serve and to contribute. Now you are always talking about that. It’s never about you and me. You are able to say, “Here’s our brand. Here’s what I stand for. How do you fit into it?” Now all you have to judge is the commitment.</p> <p>Here’s the hard part. When they want to do something on their own, oh, you get all scared. It’s your baby. It’s not your organization. You started it. You’re the visionary. But it’s the brand that matters. What you actually get to have a conversation with that person that has all the fire in their bones they want to do stuff. You want to judge if they are committed. That is a proper way to vet them. How much time? What can you do? How much money? What kind of effort? Great. To make sure they will be there. They will finish what they start. Generally, it’s us as leaders of those organizations that get in the way that don’t allow them to finish.</p> <p>What your conversation is, how does that fit within the brand. That can be missions. That can be what your goals are. How does that fit within the brand? As long as it’s doing that, you can give them the freedom to go out there, trust their brand is being represented properly. Getting clear on that is important.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It is about the brand. The first step to building a high-performance nonprofit is to have a solid foundation. This is where that branding piece comes in because we look at the core values that drive what the leadership team thinks. Who are the people you serve? Who needs you? It’s not about you. The greater mission is where that focus is. You have to determine what are we about? Who do we serve? What is the problem we solve? Why do we do it in a way that nobody else can? That is what it becomes about. That becomes the engine. When you mentioned leaders, I see that leaders have a tough time. You know the ones that have the biggest struggle are the ones that start it, especially after it starts to take off. There is a really good book called <em>The Founder’s Dilemma</em> [by Noam Wasserman] This is something that happens not just in business. To a lot of people, branding is a business term. That’s not necessarily what branding is. Branding isn’t peculiar to business. It’s really who you are and what you’re about. Why do so many people miss the boat on branding? Why do you think that is so misunderstood?</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> That’s right out there with the word “marketing.” The definition of branding is the activity of marketing. It’s confusing because you have a brand. Most people think that’s a logo. That’s a piece of it. We are building a brand. That’s kind of a company. That’s a piece of it. In my opinion, it really isn’t. The brand is again the exercise of marketing. How you show up. It’s an experience. When you nail down what your internal branding is, what your brand culture is, it’s a set of missions, experiences that you’re trying to achieve, that you stand for. The external branding is the activity of marketing. Once you understand that, I am going to answer your question, that conversation shifts always toward that. You as the founder can release a lot of that control because it’s now about the brand, not about me and my ideas. People who have the most trouble are the smartest people, are the most caring people because they care so much. You have to understand, identify what that brand is, what that stands for, what that experience is doing. Then you can focus on that, and it takes you out of the equation quite frankly.</p> <p>But people get confused on branding because it’s an ethereal thing. It’s an emotion. A lot of that emotion is memories and promises of what that experience is. Since it’s ethereal, it’s hard to pinpoint. There are steps to identifying branding: just like what you said, what do we stand for? What are our goals? What is the logo? What are our colors? How is that spread to the world? How is that communicated to the world? How do we look at it internally? In brand words, what do we stand for?</p> <p>I have an exercise that helps you discover what your brand words are. It takes all this big concept to three little words. I will tell you mine right now: creative, empowering, and entertaining. Every company that I own, every company that I start has to fit into those three things. If not, it will be out of sequence with me. I hope you see I’m creative. Empowering, I am giving you a lesson right now. Entertaining, I hope I’m making you laugh. So everything I do fits in that. It takes our brand and the essence of that brand and simplifies it. Sometimes that is the best help they can get. What are those three words? You can always go how does that communication fit within creative, empowering, and entertaining? It can fit maybe two, but not one. Your CFO. Don’t want creative. You don’t need every bit of it. If you really do your communications, you can always look at it and say, “That’s a great idea. How does it fit into those words?” If it doesn’t speak to all three, it’s not a good fit. Get rid of it. Or if it’s a communication, and you’re going to show up on Facebook, can we show up in a creative, empowering, and entertaining way? You guys are great at that. If you can, it’s great, that’s a great initiative. If you remember those three words and hone those three words in and own them, you can always point to that and challenge and judge everything you’re doing from what you wear, what you say, what medium you use, what kind of newsletters you put out there, what Facebook Lives you put out there. It really helps you stay on track.</p> <p>And people can take the ethereal thing and judge themselves to see what they are doing. We rely so heavily upon them.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s great. It’s all about who we are. Boiling it down, in the book, why should I choose you, they boil it down to seven words that drive why you do your business. Doesn’t necessarily show up on the slogan. The idea you’re talking about is just the same. The definition of why you do what you do, and it directs everything you do. Some people are really good. They get this part down. Oh, great. Now we know what it’s about. Now, who are some of the people we want to reach? How do we find out who we want to reach? Well, I gotta recruit some more board members. I gotta find some volunteers. How do I find out where they are, and how do I get to them? Then what do I say when I get there?</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> Yeah. That comes down to choosing the right people. I like to look at board members, and the reason why you bring board members is they are giving money or they are a point of credibility that allow you to get money. This is for nonprofits. That’s why they’re there. If they just want to give and they are not going to do that, they are more volunteers. Again, what I love to do is talk about the mission and the brand. This is what we stand for. This is how we’re applying ourselves to the world. Of course, this is what our goal is. This is what the cause is behind it. You have to see if they resonate with that and have the same passion. They have to have the same passion. What level of commitment are they willing to give? You might have a lot of people who want to commit a lot, but they aren’t in sync with that, so you have to say no, or vice versa.</p> <p>Ho w to communicate that. Here’s the truth. If you go back to the first part of our conversation about the little stories of success, and you start talking about them, first of all, you the leader, whomever the voice is, the communicator, the marketing director, the founder, once you connect back to why you’re doing what you’re doing and focus in on those brand words, to get really centered, then look at those little successes. Forget about the big monster. It’s that cloud that hangs over you. Forget about that. Just the little successes right now. You start sharing those successes with your world. You will attract the right people, especially if you show up within your three brand words. My perspective. If you show up in an entertaining way, if you show up in an empowering way, if you show up in a creative way, you will attract people who are attracted to that. If you articulate what you are trying to do, they will walk beside you. But they also want to see success. The reason why those little stories. I am going to tell you how you apply some of those to help with the marketing part.</p> <p>When you start articulating those stories of success, they see their investment of time, money, and energy grow. They are seeing tangibility to the efforts that they are doing. That is so important. Those little stories of success can show up with Facebook Lives. Hey, we’re here helping the kids today. Thank you donors because you have been able to put backpacks. We’re going back to school, right? We were able to give 50 backpacks to this grade school. You guys did it. Thank you. That’s a huge success. People feel good about that. It could be a newsletter. It could be your Facebook pictures and posts.</p> <p>I focus on Facebook. I will tell you some tactics here as we get into this. I focus on that because it is the easiest, most successful media we have. It is the most visited website out there, so you might as well. Almost everybody is on there. I would also say there are other platforms, but make sure your audience is there. You want to reach the people you want to reach. There is definitely other platforms like Snapchat and Instagram. Depends who your supporters really are. Quite frankly, you might have a platform where you speak to your supporters. Some of us are older, so that’s Facebook, but your recipients of your supports might be on Snapchat. You might want to separate the way you communicate. Here’s showing how we support. Here’s our actual support. But that might be a deeper dive.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Success leaves some clues. The important thing is really to be aware of where the people that you want to reach are at. Having a leadership that is committed to doing that is really important. Everybody you talk to may fall into a different category. You want three things from people. All three would be lovely: time, talent, and treasure. If you can get them all, beautiful. But everybody can serve in some capacity. What is important to some may not be important to others. There is an extra level of commitment that you need out of your board members. They have to be committed. Once you figure out what it is that you stand for and what that thing is that drives everything you do, it boils down to making sure everybody is singing off the same sheet of music. The guy who is sweeping the floor should be able to tell you the mission with as much skill as your executive director because everybody’s enthusiastic about it. Everybody has a way to serve in a way that matches their desires. It’s matching all of those desires.</p> <p>When it comes to tactics, it’s really about getting into these different places. Stories matter. You got the CFO type that you mentioned before. They are all about the numbers. But when you translate the dollars you raise to the number of backpacks you purchase and the number of laptops that the school is going to have that the children have access to, you’re not only showing the impact with the dollars, but you’re impacting lives. That is the double bottom line that nonprofits- You are providing value out there. It’s important to talk about the difference you make and that you’re providing value. You don’t need to show up with a hat in hand. You are there to partner with people to make a real difference in your community. There are a lot of tools out there to do that and ways to talk about doing that. That is your wheelhouse. It’s painting a picture for people so that they understand how what they do matters. Every time we contact people, we don’t have to ask for something. We can tell them how what they have already done has made so much difference. Hey, you can do more. The more that you do, the more people that we help. It’s really getting in there and not being afraid to look at things like marketing because we have to create success systems as leaders. We have to give people tools to talk with, tools to go out and reach out to other people with, and make it personal because everything, whether your tax status is profit-making or nonprofit, it’s all about relationships. People work with others that they know, like, and trust.</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> I agree. Let me share with you some tactics on how to do that. Is that cool?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s outstanding. I would like to see that.</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> Ready to learn some cool stuff? First of all, I want to say this. If I go through this, you can ask me questions. I will tell you to go to WorldDominatorsUnite.com. That is our group. We can let you in. I will rattle some stuff off. You will probably go, I have to take notes. I want to give that to you because your mission is very important. What you have in your mind and your ideas and what you are trying to do is absolutely correct. I want you to be able to have the great impact you were born for.</p> <p>That said, one of these is we might sometimes have a problem asking for support. We don’t want to constantly ask for money. Especially in the digital world, one thing we love to do is, “Hey, here are a couple ways to support us.” This is what we are trying to do. Here is how you can participate. One easy way is to like our fan page. That’s it. Right. That is small. Then you can build. Maybe volunteer, or donate. When you’re asking for support, it’s not always give me money. Like our fan page. Share what we’re doing. That’s awesome. What that does is that triggers people to go, Oh, I’m involved now. I’m invested. I do like your fan page. By the way, let me back this up. I am talking about your Facebook fan page, your business page. That said, or whatever social media you’re talking about. Join us here. Support us by liking us and subscribing. That’s huge because now you can build a relationship you’re talking about. When you make that request, there are three ways to support us: this, this, and this. You should always get a yes. If you don’t, they don’t resonate, so don’t waste your time. That allows you to grow in to the bigger question of donate. If you already have that relationship, you have built that cold relationship to a warm relationship to a hot relationship, then you can make that big request. Let it sit there.</p> <p>Here are some technology tactics I would do. The reason why you want to like, and I am going to go through a journey. This will be a customer journey. The reason why you want them to like the Facebook fan page business page is so that you can retarget them. Now you are going what does that mean? That is talking about running ads. I will get to that last. Running ads on Facebook. That is what you want to do. A lot of people go, I want to see my likes. I want them high because it makes you feel good. I am not saying from vanity. It’s not that. The reason why you specifically want that is because you want to be able to retarget them. Get some likes. Then run ads that are just about how awesome the mission is. No request. It’s only a brand awareness. What you’re doing is saying, “Like us, love us.” What you can do within Facebook specifically, and it’s a deep dive, and we are doing this training so I am welcome to do it. It’s free training. WorldDominatorsUnite.com. Happy to show you some of these techniques.</p> <p>What you are going to do is when you place an ad, and it could be a video of you talking about your mission, what you’re doing, some cool things, some stories, and you can spend dollars on that and get it out to the world. When you do that, there is data points that you can check off that are people who are highly likely to support other nonprofits. People who are interested in X, Y, and Z. Now you are specifically targeting people that have not only habits that might give to you, but also have interest. If you come out there with your story first, these stories of successes, you are creating brand awareness. As you have done that, you then can follow that up, so you have this brand awareness stuff, with the same group because they have liked your page. You can now follow up with requests for support. Support us. Then they hit that button, Yes, I want to support you. They can come to a landing page that has several ways to support us, and one can be donating.</p> <p>The key to that is get people to like your business page/fan page on Facebook. Then run ads talking about how awesome the mission is. No requests. They’re just top of mind. A third would be here is a specific request to support us. That support is three different ways. They might have already liked it. Who cares? It looks like they have helped you. Volunteer, support us, give us money.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s what it’s all about.</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> And that’s automated.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s making it easy. What you just illustrated is how making it easy for people to act actually increases that support. Make sure you visit WorldDominatorsUnited. Getting out there, making it easy to support you is really important. it’s like non-ask events when you do things live. But it’s all about building that relationship. That’s one way to do it. Tell us more, Daniel.</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> Here’s another secret sauce. These are my little ninja tricks. Understand if you set what I did, it’s not complicated. Some people might think they have clarity now, and others aren’t sure. It’s not complicated. But once you understand that cycle of we are going to market our brand to the world, then we will retarget them with asks of support, all you have to show up with is your story. Now that’s working, all you show up with is, Here’s a small win. Here’s another small win. Here’s another small win. Or maybe your thoughts. I was reflecting with someone who we’re helping, and it meant a lot to him, so thank you. We have the small ones. Again, don’t get caught in the mindset of, I have to share big wins. It’s the small ones that matter. We’re usually too hard on ourselves.</p> <p>Here’s another ninja trick. I know you, my friend. I know that we go to places together, right? We network in places. Most nonprofits have somewhere where you’re networking. Here’s what I would do. This is real ninja stuff. Are you ready? I do this. It’s so much fun. I’ll tell you inside of some things we have done because of this.</p> <p>I would look for a place for you to network.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Okay.</p> <p>*Technical difficulties*</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> You missed my ninja trick!</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Now you have to go to WorldDominatorsUnited and sign up to find out what the trick is.</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> No, this is important. Where’d I leave you, baby?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I’m not exactly sure. It got stuck there.</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> It did? Here we go. I’ll kinda start the technique over again. I saw your face freeze, and I wasn’t sure. You go to a networking event. They meet weekly, monthly, or quarterly. This technique really doesn’t work anything more than that. You go there. You collect business cards. Then you come home, and either you do this yourself, have a virtual assistant or assistant take those business cards in, and invite them to like your page. Some you will have to friend, which is cool. By the way, what you said, Russell, those who give, you give to people you know you like. They gotta be your friends. Does that make sense? There is a reason for that relationship. What you do is invite them to like your page. Now what you do then, imagine this, Russell. You go to a networking group. Say you meet 30 people. Now you may have 30 people who like your page. That doesn’t matter. Now you run ads a week before going to the event. It’s just brand awareness. Hey, look at my page. This is a great win. We helped this family out. Thank you for this support. No request. It’s just that.</p> <p>Here’s what happens. All those people who liked the page are now giving all these ads. You can spend $100 on this. It doesn’t have to be exorbitant because you are only trying to reach a handful of people. You’re not trying to reach the masses at this point. What happens is when you show up, the buzz that you create is tremendous. You are going to have people walk up to you and say, “I see you all over Facebook. I see all the great stuff you’re doing.” “I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Have you ever thought of supporting? Do you want to help? You seem excited about this.” See how that works.</p> <p>That’s how you can use social media online in an offline networking situation. You constantly do that. Every time you show up, you have your campaigns going, and then you have these people who see you. They get to know you more. What happens is their confidence in you and love and support for your endeavor goes up, and their barriers go down. That is when you can start making real requests. People will come to you and say, “How can I support you?”</p> <p>When I started speaking, here’s proof of this, Russell. When I started speaking, I did this. There’s a networking group that you and I both love tremendously called CEO Space International. When I had the great honor of being asked to talk, I did this. I showed up, and everybody knew who I was. Why? Because I was targeting you.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yeah. You seize control of Facebook. This is something that Daniel started several years ago to become more effective and to find ways to use this effectively. What a lot of agencies do, they look at everything as a cause. If nobody knows about what you’re doing, you’re not going to reach anybody. You have to invest on the front end more in the way of time is what you’ll have to invest. But you’ll have to, in order to stay top of mind and get out there, and I’ll be talking a little bit about that with one of our sponsors. It’s being top of mind, getting out there. Sometimes a nonprofit doesn’t have the resources, but these techniques that you have just learned are something you can start doing today.</p> <p>Let’s look at an organization and say either one of two things is taking place. Maybe they got a little bit to invest, but they don’t have the skills or the knowledge to do it. Or they have gone out and thrown some money at Facebook ads. I have spent quite a bit. I don’t seem to be getting any traction. With those techniques, there is a logical sequence that you follow and you got loads of followers. What would be a logical sequence you would have somebody in that instance follow to ramp that up?</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> 80% of your business is going to come from existing business and people you know. That is what I call warm and hot traffic, leads. What a lot of people come in the mindset of is that 20% is cold. That is the most expensive. You are going to spend 80% of your dollars getting that 20%, but you can see over time how that grows a business. There is not a silver bullet. A lot of people go, “I want to spend a couple hundred bucks and get brand new people in.” I showed you a scenario that doesn’t work. I am also saying that you want to use those tools and techniques to support your existing endeavors. We don’t want to throw everything away and start all new, unless you are trying to go big fast and you have the wherewithal to do so.</p> <p>By asking people first to like your page and invite them on Facebook to do so, don’t go around giving them a card and saying to like your page. No one is going to do that. I am talking you go on it, and you type it out, and you invite them. Once you have done that, now you can spend very low dollars because you are only reaching a handful of people. That supports your existing endeavors. Does that make sense? That is one key to step into there.</p> <p>As you want to grow, you don’t want to sit there and be stuck at a computer all day. There are automated systems for this. If you are talking about the smaller end, you have HootSuite, Sprowt Social, which helps you with social media stuff and getting it out there on platforms. You can level that up with automated marketing stuff called AutoPilotHQ.com, which I love. It helps build out customer journeys. Once someone comes in and opts in, they get an email or a text or whatever. Let that relationship work itself. One of the higher ends is HubSpot, which creates all your marketing and all your emails and your ads and all that fun stuff. You can go deep real fast.</p> <p>But the little steps are be clear on your mission and what you are trying to do. I will tell you some of the stuff I like to do is education. I challenge nonprofits not just to sit there and tell their opinion and tell why they are doing it, but also offer some education on how what they are doing can make every person better by X, Y, and Z. That is one thing we do.</p> <p>I’ll pull it right now. You have received this before. When we show up, this is our World Domination package. In it are these cheat sheets. That is what you were talking about. These things are obviously taking time to build out, but these are our handouts. We talk about it costing money. This is not inexpensive. When I talk, everybody in my talk gets a whole packet like this around the subject matter that they can implement. Creating some cheat sheet. All you have to do is talk about those cheat sheets, those white papers. There are a lot of words. The secret formula for how to accomplish something. Whatever the education platform. It might be a video series to help your audience. As you do that, a lot of people who are now recipients of your nonprofit could become donors on small levels because they felt it, they felt effective, they felt like they had gotten use out of it. The big deep dive to solve their problems. You are educating them to what I call symptoms.</p> <p>I am pulling up a random one. How to Create Lead Generation. It’s what we talked about. Build out a persona. What you want to give to them for free. And a landing page. It tells you how to do it.</p> <p>But when you have that kind of information, you could give it out to people. Yes, it takes time and money to do that. But when it is received, they get to know you. They become affected in a positive way of the intellectual property, the systems and processes, your knowledge, you’re preaching your teaching, and they become fans. Now the next conversation is you want to support this so others can have it. That is when you get them in. Some of these people might not have a lot of money, so you can support Facebook and like us on your social platforms, or donate $20. It’s easy. It’s not hard to accomplish that. Actually grows your fan base with great value. Does that make sense?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s what it’s all about. The word “value” is not used often in these circuits. Bringing value to people you serve, how they define it depends on how they relate to you. Those are parts of the stories you want to weave into the fabric of who you are and the difference you are making. What is the value? People will tell you what is valuable to them. You overdeliver and underpromise on that value. You demonstrate that impact. Those tools, I’ve sat through one of the early sessions you did when you first developed that system. It’s better now than it ever was. It’s remarkable. If you sit and take time to go through that and put a system together and find ways to give people value, and that’s talking about what you do and what’s important to them, using a system a lot like this one. It’s perfect. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel. World Dominators Unite. They will walk you through those tools. This is where we put in the time. This is a great project.</p> <p>If you’re looking at attracting support. One of the best kept secrets is pro bono. I don’t think a lot of nonprofits leverage pro bono talent. The reason that people will do pro bono work for your nonprofit varies as to whether it’s a professional firm or students. If you can find an intern and teach them the system he just showed you, they can go in there, and it would give them a project of substance. It would lay out a plan that would help you reach specific types of people. You can use this system whether you’re looking to find donors, board members. It will help you gather the information and put together the things that are important because what you’re doing as a nonprofit leader is something that everybody tries to do on one level or another.</p> <p>My friend Danna Olivo for example talks a lot about creating an experience for donors. How do you get them to stay with you? You have to stay connected to them. These are the things that Daniel is talking about: staying connected to people so that they stay with you. Some of the statistics I have seen, Daniel, are that most people keep 55-60% of their donors. You are losing upwards of 40% of their donors annually. What are some of the ways that you think they can eliminate that, using these tools and getting more people?</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> A lot of it is because they have- It’s twofold. One is what you were speaking to, is that they don’t know where you are with the story. They are not seeing the little wins. If you are not expressing that, they don’t feel like they are walking the journey with you. If they are supporting you, they want to walk that journey with you. If you allow them to keep up with you by communicating with what you’re up to and you get in front of them and use technology to do so, it makes your life easy, and all you have to do is show up as the cheerleader and ambassador that you are. That’s great. That helps.</p> <p>The other part of that is the reason why they fall off is sometimes we actually choose too big of a goal. They go, Wow. I don’t know how. You know how sometimes when you are looking at what you are trying to achieve, and you feel insignificant to obtain that, they do, too. How is my support, my contribution, even if it’s $20, how is that going to solve that? They don’t see it. Sometimes you’re not expressing the little steps and little milestones and little goals along the way either so that you clearly tell them what the effect of their support is actually having and accomplishing for the company. That is how you keep them connected.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> How many people do you see- I know that some organizations use Facebook Live. Have you come across any where you see a nonprofit doing the Live where they thank a donor by name as they have money rolling in?</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> Yeah. I’m going to go way extreme on you, baby. All right. Twitch TV. What is that? Twitch TV is the YouTube channel for video gamers. While they are branching out, it was solely video games. What they did is created “Letsplays.” That’s a geeky word of Let’s Play Along. It’s letsplays. If you have ever seen a video where the video game is being played, and in the corner, we have our heads in the corner, on my screen I am over here, that’s letsplay. You see the person playing the video game in the corner, and you see the video game they are playing. What that person is doing is playing the video game, but they are actually entertainment value. They are making jokes or talking to the audience.</p> <p>By the way, Russ, there is young people who make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year playing video games and what they do is what you just said. They are playing and saying thanks for supporting me, Russ. A lot of people give just to hear their names being shouted out. Playing into the vanity of that.</p> <p>You can do that with Facebook Live. Now Facebook Live has features that are experimental where you can actually buy stars. You know how we give hearts and thumbs up. You can give a star. But a star costs you money, real dollars. If it happens, give me a lot of stars. On their gaming platform, they are now doing that. They started rolling that out.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> it’s really thinking about these things in terms of an investment in time. People that support you, remember the three T’s, time, talent, and treasure. Anybody that is engaged in what you’re doing can help you on some level. The more supporters you have, the easier it will be. More hands makes the work lighter. That’s the way it goes.</p> <p>Let’s talk about the people who look at this and say, Well, you know, this all sounds very good, but I’m technologically challenged. It sounds like it’s going to take forever. I don’t know how easy this is. There may be folks with some genuine fears around trying to do some of this stuff. How would you address them, and how would you encourage them to move forward? What sort of suggestions do you have to help them do that?</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> I am going to come up with a smart alecky answer. Do I have your permission?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Go for it.</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> I listen to a lot of different things. You know a little bit about me. I don’t always talk about this. But one of the people I love listening to is Joel Osteen.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Okay.</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> The message that I was listening to- I listen to a lot of talk radio because I can listen and talk. I can get in my zone and produce my- I can’t listen and talk. I can’t do that. I tell my wife that, but she will just tell you that I can talk. I can work and listen. It doesn’t require any hands.</p> <p>If you want it bad enough, you will get over it.  Do you want it bad enough? Do you really want to solve that problem? Do you really want to have the impact on the world that you want to have? If you want it bad enough, you will put the work in. You won’t use that excuse. You’ll learn. What really helps you get there is being very on fire and clear on what your mission is. What you’re doing and why. Constantly having that in mind. Constantly being mindful of that. As you’re doing this, learning Facebook. You know what the impact is going to be. I’m hoping today I bridge for those because I try to keep it- I can get real geeky. I am trying to keep it simple because we are talking about complex things that aren’t that hard for some people, and for others, there are challenges. I am trying to bridge the gap of if I do this, here are some benefits that will happen.</p> <p>For very small steps, doing Facebook Live can be challenging for people. If you are watching this, you have some affinity for it, which is awesome. This is the easiest form of getting out there. Show up and tell the stories. If that doesn’t work, you could do that at your local rotary club or different churches. Talk about those stories, the mission, and events. If that’s too much, do it with your networking group. Start telling those little stories of what you’re doing. Instead of talking about what you’re up to, meaning from a brand perspective, what are you trying to cure, that’s important, but for framing. Stop talking about that. Start talking about the little impacts you’re having on your audience. Now people can relate to that. If you can have those conversations in a networking group one on one, from the stages at little events, or big stages, or this virtual stage, if you can talk about the impact you’re having, now people can meet you where you are. If you change that focus, you will be more effective. The conversation of support becomes natural.</p> <p>You can get more technological. I do want to backtrack on something. You said, “I will always start with this scarcity mentality.” You said there are people who will tithe their time for you. You used a different word, but it’s the same thing. I challenge you to pay for it. If it’s that important, it should be a line item on your budget because if you do the marketing correctly, and that’s what marketing is. If you do your marketing at all, you’re a step forward to getting more exposure and more results. If you do it correctly, if you listen to what I said and apply what I told you today, you will be doing it correctly, and you will have great results. That’s important. I would actually invest in those things because sometimes what we do is this is where we hit the mentality.</p> <p>I’m technically challenged, so I don’t want to look under the hood. I don’t want to have that conversation. Then you have a gap in your understanding. If you are a true leader, a true CEO, a true person that is marching down to solve the world, you owe it to yourself, you have an obligation to close that gap. Not that you have to run your social media every day. That’s not what you’re talking about. But your understanding of it. That’s one thing I train people on. From a CEO level, this is what you need to know as a leader. Not that you need to know all the buttons to hit. That’s okay. But to understand the effectiveness of it, and where your mind needs to be, and more importantly, your voice. You got me preaching again.</p> <p>But what happens is I don’t know it, so it’s out of sight, out of mind. And also, I don’t understand it. Here’s a challenge. I don’t know how to get someone to do it, so I am going to find someone to do it for free. Because you don’t value it. Now you have someone working on your behalf, volunteer-wise, tithing their time, because we are pushing it off to someone. But if you’re actually investing in it and hiring someone to do it for you, that’s a better tactic because you will come close because you are paying for it. You will come closer with your gap because it’s their job to help walk you through some of that stuff.</p> <p>That’s where that pitfall is. I don’t know anything about it. Do you know something about it? Will you help me do it? You see that delivery there. The relationship is already set off wrong because you are not getting up to speed on it, you are not closing that gap, so that is why a lot of people fail in that area. Those who understand marketing understand the value of it and understand spending a dollar on it, and they are getting the good quality stuff.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> They key word that you used in that is “investment.” It’s not a cost. A lot of nonprofit leaders look at stuff as a cost. This is an investment of your relationships that are invaluable.</p> <p>Speaking of valuable relationships, *sponsor message for Wordsprint*</p> <p>Thanks to our sponsors, we get to have people like Daniel Ruke here. WorldDominatorsUnite.com. This is a place to go to get that basic training. He’s got remarkable tools there. Daniel, it’s been a real pleasure.</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> Can I add one more thing?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I wanted to get your closing thoughts that you wanted to leave people with. What’s the biggest takeaway they should have?</p> <p><strong>Ruke:</strong> I gotta add something. I know the time right now. When you said “investment,” here is a misnomer I want people to understand. I am using my stuff as an example again. When I talk from stage, I hand this stuff out. These are for people who aren’t doing business with me. This is the kind of stuff we create and hand out. We have spent up to $25 per person in a seat. That is my cost. Not getting there, not travel, not the hours to pay me and my team that it takes to make these things and create these unique things. It’s the largest investment that I make.</p> <p>Here is what you need to understand. When you are out there getting cold traffic to warm them up, that is the biggest expense you are going to have by far. When you talk about investment, a lot of people go, “Hey, no one bought off of this yet.” You have to build the relationship. It takes time. When you look at the ROI on this stuff, how does it get to the big stuff, too? Once you get the big traction, the big donors, the big numbers, that is where you can trickle it down and say it cost you nothing. It was well paid for and profitable. That is where a lot of people look at these little steps like the free giveaways and go, “How is that going to make us money?” It’s not going to make you money immediately. It’s on the path, on the journey.</p> <p>What I’d like to leave you with is that it is a journey. You started out, and you’re doing what you’re doing because you have fire in your bones. I hope it’s still there. If it’s not, go center yourself, think of three words that inspire you to do this because the world needs what you’re doing. You are important. What you are trying to cure, solve, support, and help needs you. If you do not invest in you, with your money and your time, with your platforms, with your marketing, with your organization, if you don’t ask for the money, the support, yep, support liking, but if you don’t ask for the money, you won’t have the impact that you want. That’s a shame, and that’s sad.</p> <p>I would say that you are doing the right thing. Keep at it. Take the words. Listen to this a couple times. Apply. If you really want it, you’ll do it. Those who get it done want it the most.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Daniel Ruke, you’re a wizard. It’s always a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time and preserving it at such a high level.</p> <p>WorldDominatorsUnite.com is where you can get all these tools. ROI, it’s not just return on investment, but for you folks, it’s return on influence, return on impact. You can do that with the right tools.</p> <p>Thank you again for joining us on <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> This is Russ Dennis signing off until next week.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>How Community Building and Assessment Marketing Help You Build Relationships (Archive)</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-community-building-and-assessment-marketing-help-you-build-relationships</link>
      <description>At Super Brand Publishing, we are experts at helping you become the world authority you always knew you could be. You know it. We know it. And this is how the rest of the world catches up.
 Confidence, passion, and a strong vision of her potential have all contributed to Juliet Clark's incredible success as a woman entrepreneur.
 Juliet Clark founded Winsome Media Group in November 2009. Within 90 days of opening her coaching and publishing company, she had filled her coaching schedule and established herself as an expert helping people build their digital footprint to sell more books, products, and services.
 Juliet's ability to help other fast track their success has made her extraordinarily successful. She assists her clients in all facets of publishing, and book and business marketing.
 Juliet is passionate about helping authors achieve their dreams. In addition to personal coaching, Juliet is also known as a motivational speaker and teacher through her Author Success Academy and the Entrepreneur Success Academy. She also is the host of a podcast called Ask Juliet, which answers author's questions and features successful authors and speakers who have effectively build platforms.
 Specialities: Professional speaker, motivational speaker, business webinars, author business bootcamps
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings to this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. Each week, we review techniques, strategies, skills, and culture development. We review all those things that are missing in the organizations that we lead. We bring in people who are successful in business, and they share their business strategies, their business skills, their framework for what they do. They have a specific area of expertise. Russell and I co-host this each week, and we encourage leaders in charities, all kinds, to install sound business principles into the organizations that they lead. Russell, welcome.
 Russell Dennis: Happy Tuesday. Welcome again, everybody. It’s good to be here. Thank you, Juliet, for joining this. It’s a beautiful sunny day in Denver, Colorado, and we are finally north of 30 degrees.
 Hugh: I am in Virginia, the south central part of Virginia, and it is in the mid-60s. It is top down weather from the convertible. Our guest today, as you already let out of the bag, is Juliet Clark. Juliet, where are you coming in from?
 Juliet Clark: I am coming in from Draper, Utah, where we actually broke 30 today as well. It’s sunny. The snow is thawing. But more snow tomorrow from what I hear.
 Hugh: Your company is Super Brand Publishing. There is also this Winsome Media group. I will let you talk about your background. Basically, what is the background that has given you the expertise to talk about what you are going to talk about today? The title of what we are talking about is How Community Building and Assessment Marketing Helped You Build Relationships. At the bottom of leadership, at the bottom of communication, at the bottom of attracting funding would be relationship. Juliet, welcome, and tell us a little bit about yourself.
 Juliet: Well, thank you for having me on, Russell and Hugh. I actually started out in the traditional publishing world and went on to advertising. I worked on the Nissan account, and then I moved on to Mattel to work on some of their products. Around 2008, I decided to write my first book, and I thought it would be a no-brainer getting it published. Self-publishing was brand new, and I went out and took my fiction novel, which—by the way I will tell you guys a little secret—I was going through a divorce. I wrote a mystery novel, and I killed my ex-husband. I was very anxious to get that published because it was either that or wear felony orange for the rest of my life. I am blonde, so not my color.
 To move on from there, I published my first book. I found a lot of inadequacies in the self-publishing world, things that I thought were super unethical. I created my own publishing company, so that is where my expertise began. By my third book, I had built my own platform and sold over 25,000 copies of that one. I was out of family members to kill, so that sold a lot more than my previous novels.
 I moved on from there. After that happened, my friends came and wanted me to help build their platforms. The company just morphed throughout the years. We were noticing entrepreneurs were writing books. When they brought them to us, we got a sense right away that this was not going to be the breakthrough product that their writing coaches had told them it would be. It was probably going to be another in a long line of failed products because they didn’t have a platform. That is where we are today.
 We have Winsome Media Group, where we focus primarily on building platforms for companies, coaches, authors, speakers, small businesses. Super Brand Publishing, where if you are really serious about that book needs to be a bestseller, we go back and we build ROI on those failed products and services that you have in the past and position that book as the icing on the cake instead of the main event. We are a fix-it crew that goes back and fixes all that other stuff that wasn’t done correctly and starts bringing ROI into your business.
 If I had to sum it up, I would say we are a marketing company disguised as a publishing company for the most part.
 Hugh: That’s key. To wrap around the relevance for the charities, it’s that we don’t know how to build this engagement model that you are talking about that is so important, building relationships. Before I go further, would you describe what you mean by “platform?”
 Juliet: A platform is where you build your audience, your fan base. In the fiction world, it was a little bit harder because you had characters you had to build that around. In the nonfiction world, it is building those people who are engaged in your business. I think there is a big gap out there between the digital world and the old networking ways that we used to work. There are people who are my age, probably 45 and older—not that I’m 45, but I will just pretend I’m down there— that they are really experts at being able to build relationships one on one. That is what we grew up with. But they don’t know how to bring in that digital space that they need. We teach them how to build relationships online because you can’t sell online unless you have relationships built. People don’t know you, like you, and trust you. Then we have this other group out there who are the younger generation, who are really invested in that digital platform, but they are not really great at building one on one relationships the way our generation is. We bring all of that together. We combine that personal and that digital to actually build relationships with people before you sell to them online.
 Hugh: That is amazing. I have 250,0000 in various platforms, following on mostly Twitter. I am driving a large fast-growing platform on LinkedIn. But Facebook is my least favorite. That is your most favorite. All in all, social media is in fact social. I am amazed at how many people don’t treat it. Hey, I’m George, buy my stuff. It’s really disappointing to get those things all the time. I would say 95% of what I get is a very awkward approach. It’s like me inviting a girl out and saying, “Let’s kiss first.”
 Juliet: Exactly.
 Hugh: Wait a minute. Why should I kiss you? There is this building a trusted relationship before people even want to consider anything that you’ve got. Let’s talk about the two pillars that were in the title. One is building a community. Talk about the context of what that means and why that’s important. The other piece is the assessment piece. Can you talk about those? Describe them, and talk about why they’re important.
 Juliet: Absolutely. Community building has recently become even more important than it was in the past. It used to be that you opened your business or your book page on Facebook. Because social media, and this is very important, social media is not yours, it belongs to the person who owns the platform. For Facebook, I may have several pages or communities, but they don’t belong to me. They belong to Mark Zuckerberg. At the end of the day, that’s his monetization platform. Now all of a sudden, business pages have become obsolete because he wants to monetize. That’s capitalism. So he has lowered visibility on those pages down to about 4-7% of the content that you produce people actually see. Inside of a community, which is a group on Facebook, people see 100% of what’s in there. 100% of what you post to 100% of the people who are in that community.
 Where the assessment marketing comes in is that once you have a community, and this is the old thinking of it, is that you build this community, you draw people in with Facebook ads, you put people in to that group, and then you find out what they want afterwards. The way that we do it is completely different because we use the assessment marketing to make sure we have our ideal client, our target market in that group. That’s how we use the assessment. Finding out where their skill levels are at, what kind of content do they need that will be valuable to them and create value to them. What skill level are they at? We use microcommitments within those. Are we speaking to beginners? Are we speaking to seasoned experts who would like to bump up where they are at in the world? We use that assessment marketing to create the engagement within the group. What questions do we ask them? How do we keep this going? What kind of content do they need to begin building trust with me? That is where we like to use those two together to make sure that we have not just a big group of people in there because that is all about ego, but the right people in there that we actually can serve.
 Hugh: Be careful of that ego thing. You have three males on the line here.
 Juliet: I don’t get a flavor that you’re really egocentric men.
 Hugh: Okay, thank you. Let’s frame this in a couple subsections. We are talking to charities who don’t commonly publish a book. Let’s rethink that. They really don’t tell their story, so there is another track that maybe they haven’t thought of and they can even get a sponsor to put their name on it and pay for the whole thing. There is that track. There is also the track of building the platform so that we have people in community, which is people together with a common philosophy, a common passion, things like that so that community is where people relate to and talk to each other. The most important thing I believe in online community isn’t content; it’s relationship. Would you agree or disagree?
 Juliet: I think that’s the most important thing, but content plays a big part of that. In order to be able to show people your expertise, you need to be able to communicate value to them. That is where the content really comes in. I like to liken it to when you have a book. There is that concept that most writers don’t get, which is show, not tell. A community does the same thing through content. You are showing people that you are really an expert at what you do. You re showing them value instead of them saying, “Me over here, I’m a great guru. Buy from me.” You are laying out the trust factor there. People are getting to know you. You are giving them actionable tips so that they see that you really know what you’re doing and you are creating that value for them. When they are ready, the assessment marketing can drive them easily into a strategy session or more nurturing. It’s a nurturing sequence.
 I like to liken it to dating, sort of like you did. If I go out on a date with you and you say on the first date, “Juliet, would you marry me?” It is icky. Not that I feel icky with you, but you get it. I’m like looking around to see where the bathroom is and where that is positioned to the back door so I can call a cab and sneak out of there because it was too much, too soon, and it feels really icky. That is what all of this is about. I’m showing you that I have value and nurturing you.
 Hugh: Let’s bring this back. These are really sound business principles for marketing. This is an area that charities are blind to: marketing and creating relationships and people who buy are donors. People who buy are sponsors. People who buy are grant makers. People who buy are board members who donate but they give their time. People who buy are volunteers. We take it for granted that people just want to show up because we have a passion. Being able to communicate a message, build a relationship, and show people why it’s important, I think it’s a missing skillset. What do you think about that repositioning of what you said?
 Juliet: I think it absolutely is as well. A lot of people don’t do it because it’s time-consuming. It takes a lot to communicate, to sit down and write something up, or do a video. I think it’s definitely something that’s missing. The more that you can communicate with that crowd, the donor crowd, when you can show them a video, when you can speak to what the needs are, the better you are able to bring those people in because just you and me having a conversation, you may be passionate about it, but I will forget about that passion ten minutes later.
 Hugh: The passion needs to be internalized with whomever you are talking to.
 Juliet: It needs to be presented in a way they will remember. For some people, that is visual. For some people, that is reading about it, but yes, something they can go back and digest later as well.
 You mentioned a book. I actually did a really great book Blue Laguna for a nonprofit called Blue Laguna. They sell that book, and it’s something that you take home and put on your coffee table. People joined. We sold the book out because people were so enthralled by yes, I need to have that passion for cleaning up the ocean. Look at these beautiful animals. Things like that where people have a real takeaway and get a real sense of how far you are willing to go with your passion.
 Hugh: I just know so many charities that have such good stories and they never tell them, except in little circles. This idea of why don’t we do a book, and I’m sure you have ways to help people take the ideas and put them on paper.
 I am going to call on my colleague in the pink shirt. He says he has the perfect head; I think I have hair. We have to debate that. I think it takes a real man to wear pink, don’t you, Juliet?
 Juliet: I love it when men wear pink.
 Hugh: We are of course recording this for the podcast so people can’t see us. They can only imagine what Russell looks like wearing pink. Russell, you in a number of these sessions have made a really good point about when we are approaching board members or donors or sponsors to find out what they are interested in. What kind of thread do you see in that coming from what Juliet is talking about and building the community, building a platform, and engaging people in a meaningful conversation?
 Russell: It’s just like any verbal language. Everybody has their language. You pointed out those five personas that are actually customers of ours. In the material I have put together for people, I have a customer profile that has turned up in both of my courses. You have to have a separate one for each group that you are talking to. We have technology that we are beholden to. You need the technology, but the old relationship building process and skills are still relevant and important. You have to take time to nurture these relationships on one hand, and on the other hand, you have to be where all the people you want to reach are. That puts you in the space where you have to do a little bit of everything. And that is what building the community is about.
 I talked with Rick Feeney, another publisher, at one point about having a nonprofit write a book because it is something for them to tell their story with. But Juliet has actually worked with some nonprofits. When you approach a nonprofit or you talk with an organization, what is the biggest hurdle that you have seen charities have to overcome to embrace this idea of building a community?
 Juliet: That’s a great question. A lot of times, it’s the organization within the nonprofit. There is a lot of who is going to run this? We are spread so thin. Do we really have time to do the assessment? Do we have the avenue? Do I feel comfortable? Who is going to go out there and ask somebody to do platformbuilding.com or whatever yours is and see how this serves you, see where you’re at with this? There is a lot of resistance behind who is going to do it, mostly. When it comes to the book, it’s we don’t have money. We don’t have money to invest in something like this. Or even marketing. They don’t have money to invest in marketing. It’s usually one or two people who are really passionate about it, and they are out there trying to spend all their time raising money, and the administrative isn’t there to facilitate this. Would you guys agree?
 Hugh: It’s part of what we encourage people to move away- Even though we call this The Nonprofit Exchange, it’s a channel that people understand, but we try to encourage people inside the organizations. Russell used the word “charity.” It’s a tax-exempt charity, a social capital organization. We mistakenly go into this nonprofit as a philosophy and not a tax classification. There is a resetting of your thinking. A lot of organizations think they can’t afford it when in fact they should afford it because it will make a huge difference in their outcomes.
 Also, I do think there is a channel here if they came up with a really good proposal for what they are doing, why it’s important, what the impact is going to be. I think they can find somebody to fund it for them. They think about we can only fund it out of our budget instead of tapping into the people who are passionate about the mission and asking one of them to fund it or a combination of them funding it or do a crowdfunding campaign around the initiative.
 Guys, David has joined us. David Dunworth. Are you in Florida today, sir?
 David Dunworth: Yeah, I’m in Florida. I had to go to Chicago for a couple of days.
 Hugh: You came back to thaw out. You and Russell, you are following this really neat thread. Coming from ostensive marketing background and knowing charities, what question do you have for Juliet?
 David: I literally don’t have any questions, but the comment on the book authorship is something that I have been talking with a couple of nonprofit people that I am presently working with that I think is one of the best vehicles to tell their story and unify their message, which not only works internally, but also externally. Like you said, Juliet, the coffee table book or whatever you want to call it, it’s the world’s greatest business card. I think that is an idea that really needs to propel itself forward. A great way to do things.
 Juliet: I didn’t mention there, one of the things we did inside the book as well was we had QR codes in there. You could actually take your phone and click on it and go to video, which I think was super powerful as well. The author of the book had Go Pro video out in the middle of a plot of orcas he was paddle boarding in. Blue whales and things like that. They were astounding. That was a huge part of bringing people in. His group has over, I think last time I checked, a million people at his business page over on Facebook because people grasp into what he was talking about with the ocean ecology.
 Hugh: It’s fascinating to try to go backwards to figure out what makes something go viral like that and catch on in a big way.
 Juliet, you spoke about you don’t really own the community in Facebook. Why would you do Facebook rather than setting up your own independent community?
 Juliet: Here is what we do with it. We really encourage that through the assessment marketing, before someone can get the results, they have to give you an email address so they can get them. One of the things that we do very well from past experience is we transition as soon as we can people from Facebook into our email list. Ultimately, our email list is that tool that no one can take away from us. I would imagine for charities, it’s a huge way to build relationships with the donors as well. Look what we’re doing. See how we’re doing it. That’s one of the first things that we work on with the assessment: being able to have people get it, take it before they come into the group, and it’s a criterion to get into the Facebook community. We are immediately transitioning people so that we can contact them in the event something does happen and Facebook goes away. All of that came from a really bad experience one of my friends had over on MySpace where she had an online newsletter that got over 300,000 hits a month, and she was making money from sponsorships. When MySpace went away, she didn’t have a list. She lost all those people. That is part of what we do with the Facebook community. Have that group of people there, but we also work very hard to get them into our list as well.
 Hugh: When you are reaching out and creating relationship with people, why Facebook instead of LinkedIn or Twitter?
 Juliet: I never thought Twitter was a great relationship building tool. I stay away from it. For me, it’s content curation instead of putting your own out there. It’s so wild. It’s a little like being on reality TV some days. I stay away from Twitter.
 LinkedIn is primarily used- If you look at the statistics, people jump on, they stay on for a few minutes, they look at what they need to look at, and they get off. Facebook is some place where people go to relax. They are clicking around, they stay on it a lot longer, it’s easier to build relationships and friendships over there than it is on those other platforms.
 Hugh: I find that people- Sorry?
 Juliet: More social.
 Hugh: It is. Social media. I find that people on Facebook are my B2B contacts and they are serious about the conversations and are not looking at other things. They are looking for something meaningful. The most important relationships I have are people I met on Twitter, the highest-level thought leaders, the editor of our magazine for example. I met him on Twitter. He has a Ph. D in organizational leadership. We have been working together for years. We met on Twitter. He said, “I will come visit you.” We ultimately met in person. I have gotten a lot of traction on Twitter. You’re right. It can be like reality TV. Right now, it’s exploding.
 There is this weird thing going on in Facebook and Twitter especially that they are censoring things and deleting accounts. One day, I will wake up with 100 Twitter followers gone. It jumps around radically. I can just only figure that there weren’t 100 people who got up and hated me one day. 100 people lost their accounts. I can see censors. I don’t know anybody who has lost a Facebook account, but I have read things about Facebook doing similar things. To your point of making sure that you have something you own where you have those relationships like an email list.
 Russell, you’re moving around like you have a really good- Russell asks the hard questions. What’s brewing in that mind?
 Russell: I was just thinking maybe if I could put some tweets out there to convince people that I am stable in my following.
 Juliet: Are you unstable?
 Russell: All those communities have a different audience and a different purpose. I just jumped out there initially because I thought, Well, I need to try to be everywhere and understand what these different platforms offer. I try to post stuff in all of them. As far as engagement goes, I probably have a little bit more interactivity on LinkedIn just for myself. What Juliet is talking about is really important to understand where your tribe is because the people that you’re trying to attract, if you have a diverse group age-wise, they will be all over the place. You may need to spend more time using one platform more than the other, but the key is in your donor database. Those names and the information that you collect. How strong a case do you have to make to get people to actually endeavor to build the list because the money is in the list? If they can build a donor database. How many people do you run across that don’t actually have a list? Is it difficult to make a case for them to do that?
 Juliet: That’s a great question. We actually put polls inside of our community because we have a platform-building community. I do want to mention in order to get into our community, you have to fill out an assessment and some questions because we don’t take everyone. You have to be our ideal client. That is such a huge point because if you have a huge mishmash of people who aren’t interested, you destroy the energy of your group.
 Getting people to build a list is very difficult. They don’t, especially for book people because making a bestseller list has become so difficult. You can’t just have a bunch of sales on Amazon now. You need them over several platforms, which means you need to be talking to those people in your list before presale and finding out where they read. It’s really hard to communicate that to people, that that list is where all their money is at. If I send something out to my list, I know what percentage will open, and I pretty much can guess what percentage will purchase from there. If you just have a group of 1,300 people on Facebook and you have a small list, chances are they are not going to buy there. But if you have a large list, you can start looking at those analytics and find out how much you can actually bring in. It’s super important. We do a list purge every year. We are about to get ready to do it now. We say, “Hey, if you’re not interested anymore, please unsubscribe yourself. If we don’t hear from you, we will unsubscribe you in 30 days.” We like to keep it super clean and make sure it’s our ideal client. But it’s difficult to communicate that to people.
 Russell: One of the things that happens to people, I have an email inbox. I have several accounts. It’s almost out of control. You go and get information, and there are some people that email you to buy things you already purchased. That might be the experience of somebody. Are you running into people that say, “I don’t want to be that person that relentlessly emails three times a day all day every day?” Is that a barrier to getting people to accept the idea of building a list?
 Juliet: It is in some sense. We let people know when they opt in that we send out a piece of content a week. Unless we are running a campaign, we usually don’t overemail our list. Once a week is enough to say, “Hi, I’m here, I’m providing value” without being obnoxious. With what we teach, we don’t constantly hammer for sales. We are building trust and bringing in people through the assessments and talking to them one on one, which is the best way to build a relationship.
 Hugh: That’s amazing.
 Russell: We should talk a little bit about the assessment process. I think I’ve seen some platforms that talk about creating assessments, but what are some of the things that you typically want to put in there? How do you actually talk to people about how to tailor those, how to use them? How do you use them yourself? I know that you talked about making sure you only had the right people in the community. What is the process for crafting the types of questions that are going to make sure you have the right people?
 Juliet: For us, first of all, we use the Smart Biz Quiz. I think it’s the best tool out there. It does collect the email, and it gives you a lot of information. It also has a commitment section, which puts together an auto-responder. It has its own auto-responder with it.
 The process we usually go through is what are the things you need to know most about your consumer? For you, you have five different consumers. You would have to go off in different directions with five different assessments.
 For platform building, first we want to find out if they know who their audience is. We go through that with them. On a scale of 1-10, we ask a couple questions. What we find out a lot of times is they don’t even know who their ideal client is. That may be something you guys need as well.
 Then we jump into what are your social media skills? Several questions. We usually try to keep it to three to four minutes’ worth of questions because we don’t want people to go away because they are bogged down.
 From social media, we go into list building.
 Then our last section is usually about building a funnel because we want to know if you have a funnel built or if you are starting from scratch. It’s basically what do you need to know about your consumer, and what is it your consumer needs to know about themselves? When you are looking at that- I love Jane Deuber who created this system. She positions it best because she talks about taking the view off of you and putting it on them. Let’s take the spotlight off me and put it on you and see where you are really at with all this.
 The last part of it is the commitment section. There you put your three biggest objections. On a scale of 1-10, you ask people for me it’s time, money, and do I want to fix the problem? We ask those questions, and then based on those answers, the auto-responder will put out an appropriate offer. On a 1-30 scale in the commitment level, if you come in between 20 and 30, we want to talk to you. We offer you a free strategy session. If you come in between 10 and 20, we have a medium range; we offer you an application. If you fill out that application, we want to talk to you. If you can’t be bothered, you go back in the nurture pile. With a 0-10, we give you something free. You’re probably not willing to fix the problem or invest in yourself, time or money-wise. That is what we look at because we want to be talking to people who are ready to purchase today. We are delegating our time, and we are keeping tabs on where people are at in the process.
 Hugh: Russell, how do you see that applying to getting donors, getting board members, getting volunteers?
 Russell: That is a great system. I have never heard anything. As you can see, I was writing furiously. That is brilliant. That is why I asked how you actually go about it. That makes perfect sense because right now, it is a numbers game. You are better off spending time around the people who are more engaged than trying to convince people and make a case. There is already a tribe out there. Get to the tribe. Get to the people who are ready. They come glass in hand and say, “I want my portion of the Kool-Aid.” That is where they are plugged in. Other people you can bring along. Because of the constraints on resources, nonprofit leaders just don’t have that kind of time to chase people who may or may not have an affinity. I think that is really great. I am going to check out this Smart Biz Quiz tool. I looked at another one, and to be honest, I haven’t gone back because they take something that is simple and make it a process. The important thing is to ask the best questions. It’s not the people who have all the answers; the questions need to change. Asking the best questions that positions you to be more helpful.
 Hugh: Juliet, are you familiar with a book by Ryan Levesque called Ask?
 Juliet: Yes, I am. A lot of this is right out of this. What’s interesting is before his book came out, I was already working with Jane Deuber’s tool because she created it before that book came out, I believe. What she does is brilliant with it. You’re always going to have those looky-loos, but you don’t want to spend time with them. I think this process really helps with that.
 Hugh: Looky-loos. She is not talking about- Russell is still writing. She is not talking about good-looking dudes like us.
 I am coming up with a paradigm shift here. We chase people. We beg them to come on board. We tell them there is not much work, and they know we’re lying. Turning the tables on this, we are looking for a few skilled volunteers. We are looking for a few committed board members. Russell, we deal with this low-performing culture. Charity leaders are reluctant to ask people to do things when the data shows that the more you ask of people, the more they are going to do. They find a reason to do it, and it’s connecting to their passion. Russell, am I making sense? Is there a paradigm shift here? As we are saying we are building a board here, here is an assessment, we want to check to make sure it’s a good fit. What are you thinking about that?
 Russell: When people write you a check, or even more importantly they have agreed to roll up their sleeves and spend some time with you, you have them. They are committed to what you’re doing. Asking a little bit more of them honors their commitment. If they have time constraints, they will be hesitant. It makes sense to ask these people who are already supporting you to help ramp up those efforts. Who do you know? Who else do you know that could come in and contribute time, talent, or treasure?
 Hugh: That’s right. We have people show up. We haven’t really segmented them. These are the tactical people. Here is the visionary people. Here are the introverts. Here are the extroverts. Here are the people who like to do phone follow-up work. Here are the people who hate to make phone calls.
 Sitting down in Clearwater, Florida, David, anything coming to your mind about how this assessment can help pre-qualify volunteers, board members, advisors, people like that?
 David: That is one of the primary methods. Through Juliet’s assignment process, you are funneling into the basins for where your clients want to be. The people who are responding into that survey, you are being able to automatically segment them through that sophistication.
 I listened to a podcast a couple weeks ago, and it was a marketing expert who was talking about how he restaffed his disc jockey wedding music business to the point where he utilized automation to hire people. He did precisely what Juliet has just described. He took them through a series of assessments and exercises first of all to see if they can follow directions. It’d be surprising how many people will read the email and respond when the email says, “Just send me the highlights of your career,” and somebody sends you the full resume. Things like that.
 I see the value in that assessment filter system to utilize a process for the nonprofit from board members to volunteers. Those board members who are- Every organization has them. I sat on several boards, and a lot of people would talk to me about how to get on a board. I want to get on a board. Those are the people that you really want to stay away from because they are looking more or less for something to hang on the far end of their name as opposed to somebody who wants to share their passion and their gifts and their time with the mission that the organization is based on. I think that filter system sounds great.
 Hugh: Juliet, we have used the word “funnel” a few times. There may be people who are listening who don’t understand that. It sounds like we pour them into a drain. How are you meaning put them into a funnel?
 Juliet: Depends on which bucket they went into. Some we might pour down the drain. When I talk about a funnel, I mean actually having a marketing campaign set up. I use the funneling assessment and the community as the head of my funnel. People who come into there, then we get them into our list. We also have campaigns that are behind that. It’s bringing them from social media into our world into social media into our list and then being able to sell them. You are taking this big crowd. It doesn’t look like this on the inside. It looks more like a spider web when you do it right.
 Let’s say you speak in front of a room and you invite people to come over and take your assessment. There will be a certain number of people who will actually do that. The rest will go away. From that assessment, you will invite people into your community. There are going to be people who took that assessment who may not want to be a part of your community. Then you get people inside who transition to the list. Not all of those people are going to go. You are narrowing down from a bigger group who a little interest, more interest, a lot of interest, we’re in. That is what you are really doing with all that, giving them baby steps and opportunities to come in. If they take them, great. If they don’t, let’s get it down to people who want the opportunity.
 Hugh: Ryan Levesque says in his book that people don’t like to do surveys, but they like to give their opinion. What have you found?
 Juliet: The way our system is set up, you’re not really giving an opinion. I bet if you did this for something like politics, everybody has an opinion. I think he’s right in that sense. But here’s the thing that entices them to take the assessment. When you position it in a way to find out where your skill level is really at, people are curious about that. I wonder if I am as good as I think I am. I wonder if I am as bad as I think I am. That is where the curiosity is getting in and finding out more about let’s look at you instead of let’s look at me. When you are down the line and selling something, it makes it much easier to sell whatever you’re selling when their defenses are down. If I have to go into a strategy session and say, “Your social media isn’t up to par,” your social media may not be up to par, but your immediate reaction is, “No, it’s not.” That wall goes up, and it makes it more difficult for me to close. When you are able to come into a webinar or a strategy session or a selling situation and you already know that you need the help, you’re much more open to the suggestion. You are much more open to me telling you that this is where you’re at and this is where your vision is and now let’s fill that gap. In a lot of ways, it has to be that curiosity about where they are as an individual on the topic.
 Hugh: There is a lot of nuances to this. I’ve ignored the primary piece that you were talking about, which is thinking how we engage people as volunteers, board members, servant leaders in the organization. There is one of the eight streams of revenue that we teach people how to create is earned income. It is selling things that are related to what you’re doing: books, events, doing trainings. There are business streams of earned income that are relevant to what the charity is doing. Utilizing a lot of these and then the idea of telling your story in a book, maybe even having an anthology where you have your tribe write a chapter or tell the story so that you have an anthology, which ups the investment of people investing in the books so they want to share it. Thinking about creating revenue streams by there is lots of books we can sell or programs we can sell. We could even sign on for affiliate programs. We teach charities to think about signing up at Walmart and getting a number so when people buy, they give your number, and Walmart takes a percentage and donates it to your charities. Grocery stores have the cards they use to donate to charities.
 We talked about how we interview people for meaningful volunteer work. Going back to creating the funnel, where can people go to learn about what you do and how you teach? Do you have webinars or self-studies? Or is it only working with Juliet?
 Juliet: We have seen a shift in the marketplace lately where people aren’t dying to work on self-studies anymore. Most of our programs are either one on one or group programs. The group program, I work one on one with you and build your first assessment, your community, and the editorial within it. Go to winsomemediagroup.com. There are a couple programs over there. The one where we build the community and the assessment is JulietClark.com/rdsm. You can find out more about that program. And we have a group over on Facebook, a platform building group. It’s Facebook.com/groups/platformbuilders.
 Hugh: Michael Hyatt has a book called Platform.
 Juliet: He does.
 Hugh: Any similarities in what he teaches and what you’re teaching?
 Juliet: I think if I had done the book back when he did, yes, there would be. But I think there has been so much change that has occurred since he wrote the first book. I’d love to see him come out with an updated version. I think there has been a shift in the marketplace that that book is very basic now. Our consumer has gotten much more savvy. I would love to see him write a more updated book in that sense. He’s got the basics.
 Hugh: Using that, he created quite a substantial tribe and a large footprint.
 We are on the final stretch of our interview. I‘m going to give Russell and David a chance to ask another question, and then I will do a wrap with Juliet. David? Russell? Who wants to go first?
 David: Russell is first.
 Russell: There is lots there. For those who were wondering what we’re talking about, I have not read the book yet, but I came across this, and I have forgotten that I downloaded it. It has remarkable charts on there. But I am going to go back and take it a step further because this is a wonderful valuable product that he just added and didn’t charge any money for. There is lots of information out there. But people don’t need more information. They need somebody to help them make more sense of it. Juliet, I am going to go to your community and sign in and learn a little bit more about how you employ these tools. It’s one thing to read it and another thing to see somebody actually take it and apply it. Remarkable stuff. I love this. You can never learn too much. It’s important.
 The last question I have on getting nonprofits or anybody on that matter, because you probably deal with small businesses and other people, too: What are the three most common objections you have to somebody embarking on the process?
 Juliet: Oh, that’s so easy. Time. I don’t have time to fix the problem. Platform building does take time. I don’t care what you see out there. Six figures in six months. 100,000 in 90 days. It’s a process. You don’t build a relationship in five minutes, and you don’t build a platform in five minutes. It is truly an integral process that takes I would say at least a good six months to a year when you build it organically.
 The second is money. There are a lot of books out there that tell people how to do it, but the biggest problem I see is that people are reading books. By the time they read the books, the information is outdated, and they are now bringing outdated platform pieces together and integrate them.
 The third is, I don’t need to do it; I will be discovered. A lot of people think that it’s as easy as I am going to put my stuff out there and some influencer will discover me and I will be on my way. That is about as likely as the next supermodel being found at age 12 in a store in Milwaukee.
 Hugh: That’s so real. As you know, entrepreneurs and most charities think because they have something worthy, people will beat a pathway to their door, and money will follow in their pockets, which is so far from true. There are ditches filled with people who didn’t make it. They fell off the road.
 David, in Clearwater.
 David: I don’t have any questions. I am sitting here aghast and amazed at the process. Like Russell, I am heading over to your spot to see just how bad I am.
 Juliet: How good you are. Position it nicely. Position it positively.
 David: I am trying to pick up on something you said earlier in the day. Yeah, you’re right. I am looking forward to finding out more about the process. Thank you.
 Juliet: Cool, thank you.
 Hugh: Juliet, what would you like to leave people with?
 Juliet: Start building your community the minute you have the idea. Whether it’s a book, a product, a service, validate it there before you spend a whole lot of money finding out that it’s not valid, that it doesn’t have a market, that it doesn’t have the purpose you think. Take all of that feedback that that community gives you, and figure out a way to make it all work if it’s a viable product. Don’t do it the other way around.
 Hugh: Juliet Clark, thank you very much. This has been priceless information today.
 Juliet: Thank you for having me.
 Hugh: Absolutely.
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      <pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7cbc1e98-b329-11eb-9f0f-8f0a1e4799d2/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Book Expert, Juliet Clark</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>At Super Brand Publishing, we are experts at helping you become the world authority you always knew you could be. You know it. We know it. And this is how the rest of the world catches up.
 Confidence, passion, and a strong vision of her potential have all contributed to Juliet Clark's incredible success as a woman entrepreneur.
 Juliet Clark founded Winsome Media Group in November 2009. Within 90 days of opening her coaching and publishing company, she had filled her coaching schedule and established herself as an expert helping people build their digital footprint to sell more books, products, and services.
 Juliet's ability to help other fast track their success has made her extraordinarily successful. She assists her clients in all facets of publishing, and book and business marketing.
 Juliet is passionate about helping authors achieve their dreams. In addition to personal coaching, Juliet is also known as a motivational speaker and teacher through her Author Success Academy and the Entrepreneur Success Academy. She also is the host of a podcast called Ask Juliet, which answers author's questions and features successful authors and speakers who have effectively build platforms.
 Specialities: Professional speaker, motivational speaker, business webinars, author business bootcamps
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings to this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. Each week, we review techniques, strategies, skills, and culture development. We review all those things that are missing in the organizations that we lead. We bring in people who are successful in business, and they share their business strategies, their business skills, their framework for what they do. They have a specific area of expertise. Russell and I co-host this each week, and we encourage leaders in charities, all kinds, to install sound business principles into the organizations that they lead. Russell, welcome.
 Russell Dennis: Happy Tuesday. Welcome again, everybody. It’s good to be here. Thank you, Juliet, for joining this. It’s a beautiful sunny day in Denver, Colorado, and we are finally north of 30 degrees.
 Hugh: I am in Virginia, the south central part of Virginia, and it is in the mid-60s. It is top down weather from the convertible. Our guest today, as you already let out of the bag, is Juliet Clark. Juliet, where are you coming in from?
 Juliet Clark: I am coming in from Draper, Utah, where we actually broke 30 today as well. It’s sunny. The snow is thawing. But more snow tomorrow from what I hear.
 Hugh: Your company is Super Brand Publishing. There is also this Winsome Media group. I will let you talk about your background. Basically, what is the background that has given you the expertise to talk about what you are going to talk about today? The title of what we are talking about is How Community Building and Assessment Marketing Helped You Build Relationships. At the bottom of leadership, at the bottom of communication, at the bottom of attracting funding would be relationship. Juliet, welcome, and tell us a little bit about yourself.
 Juliet: Well, thank you for having me on, Russell and Hugh. I actually started out in the traditional publishing world and went on to advertising. I worked on the Nissan account, and then I moved on to Mattel to work on some of their products. Around 2008, I decided to write my first book, and I thought it would be a no-brainer getting it published. Self-publishing was brand new, and I went out and took my fiction novel, which—by the way I will tell you guys a little secret—I was going through a divorce. I wrote a mystery novel, and I killed my ex-husband. I was very anxious to get that published because it was either that or wear felony orange for the rest of my life. I am blonde, so not my color.
 To move on from there, I published my first book. I found a lot of inadequacies in the self-publishing world, things that I thought were super unethical. I created my own publishing company, so that is where my expertise began. By my third book, I had built my own platform and sold over 25,000 copies of that one. I was out of family members to kill, so that sold a lot more than my previous novels.
 I moved on from there. After that happened, my friends came and wanted me to help build their platforms. The company just morphed throughout the years. We were noticing entrepreneurs were writing books. When they brought them to us, we got a sense right away that this was not going to be the breakthrough product that their writing coaches had told them it would be. It was probably going to be another in a long line of failed products because they didn’t have a platform. That is where we are today.
 We have Winsome Media Group, where we focus primarily on building platforms for companies, coaches, authors, speakers, small businesses. Super Brand Publishing, where if you are really serious about that book needs to be a bestseller, we go back and we build ROI on those failed products and services that you have in the past and position that book as the icing on the cake instead of the main event. We are a fix-it crew that goes back and fixes all that other stuff that wasn’t done correctly and starts bringing ROI into your business.
 If I had to sum it up, I would say we are a marketing company disguised as a publishing company for the most part.
 Hugh: That’s key. To wrap around the relevance for the charities, it’s that we don’t know how to build this engagement model that you are talking about that is so important, building relationships. Before I go further, would you describe what you mean by “platform?”
 Juliet: A platform is where you build your audience, your fan base. In the fiction world, it was a little bit harder because you had characters you had to build that around. In the nonfiction world, it is building those people who are engaged in your business. I think there is a big gap out there between the digital world and the old networking ways that we used to work. There are people who are my age, probably 45 and older—not that I’m 45, but I will just pretend I’m down there— that they are really experts at being able to build relationships one on one. That is what we grew up with. But they don’t know how to bring in that digital space that they need. We teach them how to build relationships online because you can’t sell online unless you have relationships built. People don’t know you, like you, and trust you. Then we have this other group out there who are the younger generation, who are really invested in that digital platform, but they are not really great at building one on one relationships the way our generation is. We bring all of that together. We combine that personal and that digital to actually build relationships with people before you sell to them online.
 Hugh: That is amazing. I have 250,0000 in various platforms, following on mostly Twitter. I am driving a large fast-growing platform on LinkedIn. But Facebook is my least favorite. That is your most favorite. All in all, social media is in fact social. I am amazed at how many people don’t treat it. Hey, I’m George, buy my stuff. It’s really disappointing to get those things all the time. I would say 95% of what I get is a very awkward approach. It’s like me inviting a girl out and saying, “Let’s kiss first.”
 Juliet: Exactly.
 Hugh: Wait a minute. Why should I kiss you? There is this building a trusted relationship before people even want to consider anything that you’ve got. Let’s talk about the two pillars that were in the title. One is building a community. Talk about the context of what that means and why that’s important. The other piece is the assessment piece. Can you talk about those? Describe them, and talk about why they’re important.
 Juliet: Absolutely. Community building has recently become even more important than it was in the past. It used to be that you opened your business or your book page on Facebook. Because social media, and this is very important, social media is not yours, it belongs to the person who owns the platform. For Facebook, I may have several pages or communities, but they don’t belong to me. They belong to Mark Zuckerberg. At the end of the day, that’s his monetization platform. Now all of a sudden, business pages have become obsolete because he wants to monetize. That’s capitalism. So he has lowered visibility on those pages down to about 4-7% of the content that you produce people actually see. Inside of a community, which is a group on Facebook, people see 100% of what’s in there. 100% of what you post to 100% of the people who are in that community.
 Where the assessment marketing comes in is that once you have a community, and this is the old thinking of it, is that you build this community, you draw people in with Facebook ads, you put people in to that group, and then you find out what they want afterwards. The way that we do it is completely different because we use the assessment marketing to make sure we have our ideal client, our target market in that group. That’s how we use the assessment. Finding out where their skill levels are at, what kind of content do they need that will be valuable to them and create value to them. What skill level are they at? We use microcommitments within those. Are we speaking to beginners? Are we speaking to seasoned experts who would like to bump up where they are at in the world? We use that assessment marketing to create the engagement within the group. What questions do we ask them? How do we keep this going? What kind of content do they need to begin building trust with me? That is where we like to use those two together to make sure that we have not just a big group of people in there because that is all about ego, but the right people in there that we actually can serve.
 Hugh: Be careful of that ego thing. You have three males on the line here.
 Juliet: I don’t get a flavor that you’re really egocentric men.
 Hugh: Okay, thank you. Let’s frame this in a couple subsections. We are talking to charities who don’t commonly publish a book. Let’s rethink that. They really don’t tell their story, so there is another track that maybe they haven’t thought of and they can even get a sponsor to put their name on it and pay for the whole thing. There is that track. There is also the track of building the platform so that we have people in community, which is people together with a common philosophy, a common passion, things like that so that community is where people relate to and talk to each other. The most important thing I believe in online community isn’t content; it’s relationship. Would you agree or disagree?
 Juliet: I think that’s the most important thing, but content plays a big part of that. In order to be able to show people your expertise, you need to be able to communicate value to them. That is where the content really comes in. I like to liken it to when you have a book. There is that concept that most writers don’t get, which is show, not tell. A community does the same thing through content. You are showing people that you are really an expert at what you do. You re showing them value instead of them saying, “Me over here, I’m a great guru. Buy from me.” You are laying out the trust factor there. People are getting to know you. You are giving them actionable tips so that they see that you really know what you’re doing and you are creating that value for them. When they are ready, the assessment marketing can drive them easily into a strategy session or more nurturing. It’s a nurturing sequence.
 I like to liken it to dating, sort of like you did. If I go out on a date with you and you say on the first date, “Juliet, would you marry me?” It is icky. Not that I feel icky with you, but you get it. I’m like looking around to see where the bathroom is and where that is positioned to the back door so I can call a cab and sneak out of there because it was too much, too soon, and it feels really icky. That is what all of this is about. I’m showing you that I have value and nurturing you.
 Hugh: Let’s bring this back. These are really sound business principles for marketing. This is an area that charities are blind to: marketing and creating relationships and people who buy are donors. People who buy are sponsors. People who buy are grant makers. People who buy are board members who donate but they give their time. People who buy are volunteers. We take it for granted that people just want to show up because we have a passion. Being able to communicate a message, build a relationship, and show people why it’s important, I think it’s a missing skillset. What do you think about that repositioning of what you said?
 Juliet: I think it absolutely is as well. A lot of people don’t do it because it’s time-consuming. It takes a lot to communicate, to sit down and write something up, or do a video. I think it’s definitely something that’s missing. The more that you can communicate with that crowd, the donor crowd, when you can show them a video, when you can speak to what the needs are, the better you are able to bring those people in because just you and me having a conversation, you may be passionate about it, but I will forget about that passion ten minutes later.
 Hugh: The passion needs to be internalized with whomever you are talking to.
 Juliet: It needs to be presented in a way they will remember. For some people, that is visual. For some people, that is reading about it, but yes, something they can go back and digest later as well.
 You mentioned a book. I actually did a really great book Blue Laguna for a nonprofit called Blue Laguna. They sell that book, and it’s something that you take home and put on your coffee table. People joined. We sold the book out because people were so enthralled by yes, I need to have that passion for cleaning up the ocean. Look at these beautiful animals. Things like that where people have a real takeaway and get a real sense of how far you are willing to go with your passion.
 Hugh: I just know so many charities that have such good stories and they never tell them, except in little circles. This idea of why don’t we do a book, and I’m sure you have ways to help people take the ideas and put them on paper.
 I am going to call on my colleague in the pink shirt. He says he has the perfect head; I think I have hair. We have to debate that. I think it takes a real man to wear pink, don’t you, Juliet?
 Juliet: I love it when men wear pink.
 Hugh: We are of course recording this for the podcast so people can’t see us. They can only imagine what Russell looks like wearing pink. Russell, you in a number of these sessions have made a really good point about when we are approaching board members or donors or sponsors to find out what they are interested in. What kind of thread do you see in that coming from what Juliet is talking about and building the community, building a platform, and engaging people in a meaningful conversation?
 Russell: It’s just like any verbal language. Everybody has their language. You pointed out those five personas that are actually customers of ours. In the material I have put together for people, I have a customer profile that has turned up in both of my courses. You have to have a separate one for each group that you are talking to. We have technology that we are beholden to. You need the technology, but the old relationship building process and skills are still relevant and important. You have to take time to nurture these relationships on one hand, and on the other hand, you have to be where all the people you want to reach are. That puts you in the space where you have to do a little bit of everything. And that is what building the community is about.
 I talked with Rick Feeney, another publisher, at one point about having a nonprofit write a book because it is something for them to tell their story with. But Juliet has actually worked with some nonprofits. When you approach a nonprofit or you talk with an organization, what is the biggest hurdle that you have seen charities have to overcome to embrace this idea of building a community?
 Juliet: That’s a great question. A lot of times, it’s the organization within the nonprofit. There is a lot of who is going to run this? We are spread so thin. Do we really have time to do the assessment? Do we have the avenue? Do I feel comfortable? Who is going to go out there and ask somebody to do platformbuilding.com or whatever yours is and see how this serves you, see where you’re at with this? There is a lot of resistance behind who is going to do it, mostly. When it comes to the book, it’s we don’t have money. We don’t have money to invest in something like this. Or even marketing. They don’t have money to invest in marketing. It’s usually one or two people who are really passionate about it, and they are out there trying to spend all their time raising money, and the administrative isn’t there to facilitate this. Would you guys agree?
 Hugh: It’s part of what we encourage people to move away- Even though we call this The Nonprofit Exchange, it’s a channel that people understand, but we try to encourage people inside the organizations. Russell used the word “charity.” It’s a tax-exempt charity, a social capital organization. We mistakenly go into this nonprofit as a philosophy and not a tax classification. There is a resetting of your thinking. A lot of organizations think they can’t afford it when in fact they should afford it because it will make a huge difference in their outcomes.
 Also, I do think there is a channel here if they came up with a really good proposal for what they are doing, why it’s important, what the impact is going to be. I think they can find somebody to fund it for them. They think about we can only fund it out of our budget instead of tapping into the people who are passionate about the mission and asking one of them to fund it or a combination of them funding it or do a crowdfunding campaign around the initiative.
 Guys, David has joined us. David Dunworth. Are you in Florida today, sir?
 David Dunworth: Yeah, I’m in Florida. I had to go to Chicago for a couple of days.
 Hugh: You came back to thaw out. You and Russell, you are following this really neat thread. Coming from ostensive marketing background and knowing charities, what question do you have for Juliet?
 David: I literally don’t have any questions, but the comment on the book authorship is something that I have been talking with a couple of nonprofit people that I am presently working with that I think is one of the best vehicles to tell their story and unify their message, which not only works internally, but also externally. Like you said, Juliet, the coffee table book or whatever you want to call it, it’s the world’s greatest business card. I think that is an idea that really needs to propel itself forward. A great way to do things.
 Juliet: I didn’t mention there, one of the things we did inside the book as well was we had QR codes in there. You could actually take your phone and click on it and go to video, which I think was super powerful as well. The author of the book had Go Pro video out in the middle of a plot of orcas he was paddle boarding in. Blue whales and things like that. They were astounding. That was a huge part of bringing people in. His group has over, I think last time I checked, a million people at his business page over on Facebook because people grasp into what he was talking about with the ocean ecology.
 Hugh: It’s fascinating to try to go backwards to figure out what makes something go viral like that and catch on in a big way.
 Juliet, you spoke about you don’t really own the community in Facebook. Why would you do Facebook rather than setting up your own independent community?
 Juliet: Here is what we do with it. We really encourage that through the assessment marketing, before someone can get the results, they have to give you an email address so they can get them. One of the things that we do very well from past experience is we transition as soon as we can people from Facebook into our email list. Ultimately, our email list is that tool that no one can take away from us. I would imagine for charities, it’s a huge way to build relationships with the donors as well. Look what we’re doing. See how we’re doing it. That’s one of the first things that we work on with the assessment: being able to have people get it, take it before they come into the group, and it’s a criterion to get into the Facebook community. We are immediately transitioning people so that we can contact them in the event something does happen and Facebook goes away. All of that came from a really bad experience one of my friends had over on MySpace where she had an online newsletter that got over 300,000 hits a month, and she was making money from sponsorships. When MySpace went away, she didn’t have a list. She lost all those people. That is part of what we do with the Facebook community. Have that group of people there, but we also work very hard to get them into our list as well.
 Hugh: When you are reaching out and creating relationship with people, why Facebook instead of LinkedIn or Twitter?
 Juliet: I never thought Twitter was a great relationship building tool. I stay away from it. For me, it’s content curation instead of putting your own out there. It’s so wild. It’s a little like being on reality TV some days. I stay away from Twitter.
 LinkedIn is primarily used- If you look at the statistics, people jump on, they stay on for a few minutes, they look at what they need to look at, and they get off. Facebook is some place where people go to relax. They are clicking around, they stay on it a lot longer, it’s easier to build relationships and friendships over there than it is on those other platforms.
 Hugh: I find that people- Sorry?
 Juliet: More social.
 Hugh: It is. Social media. I find that people on Facebook are my B2B contacts and they are serious about the conversations and are not looking at other things. They are looking for something meaningful. The most important relationships I have are people I met on Twitter, the highest-level thought leaders, the editor of our magazine for example. I met him on Twitter. He has a Ph. D in organizational leadership. We have been working together for years. We met on Twitter. He said, “I will come visit you.” We ultimately met in person. I have gotten a lot of traction on Twitter. You’re right. It can be like reality TV. Right now, it’s exploding.
 There is this weird thing going on in Facebook and Twitter especially that they are censoring things and deleting accounts. One day, I will wake up with 100 Twitter followers gone. It jumps around radically. I can just only figure that there weren’t 100 people who got up and hated me one day. 100 people lost their accounts. I can see censors. I don’t know anybody who has lost a Facebook account, but I have read things about Facebook doing similar things. To your point of making sure that you have something you own where you have those relationships like an email list.
 Russell, you’re moving around like you have a really good- Russell asks the hard questions. What’s brewing in that mind?
 Russell: I was just thinking maybe if I could put some tweets out there to convince people that I am stable in my following.
 Juliet: Are you unstable?
 Russell: All those communities have a different audience and a different purpose. I just jumped out there initially because I thought, Well, I need to try to be everywhere and understand what these different platforms offer. I try to post stuff in all of them. As far as engagement goes, I probably have a little bit more interactivity on LinkedIn just for myself. What Juliet is talking about is really important to understand where your tribe is because the people that you’re trying to attract, if you have a diverse group age-wise, they will be all over the place. You may need to spend more time using one platform more than the other, but the key is in your donor database. Those names and the information that you collect. How strong a case do you have to make to get people to actually endeavor to build the list because the money is in the list? If they can build a donor database. How many people do you run across that don’t actually have a list? Is it difficult to make a case for them to do that?
 Juliet: That’s a great question. We actually put polls inside of our community because we have a platform-building community. I do want to mention in order to get into our community, you have to fill out an assessment and some questions because we don’t take everyone. You have to be our ideal client. That is such a huge point because if you have a huge mishmash of people who aren’t interested, you destroy the energy of your group.
 Getting people to build a list is very difficult. They don’t, especially for book people because making a bestseller list has become so difficult. You can’t just have a bunch of sales on Amazon now. You need them over several platforms, which means you need to be talking to those people in your list before presale and finding out where they read. It’s really hard to communicate that to people, that that list is where all their money is at. If I send something out to my list, I know what percentage will open, and I pretty much can guess what percentage will purchase from there. If you just have a group of 1,300 people on Facebook and you have a small list, chances are they are not going to buy there. But if you have a large list, you can start looking at those analytics and find out how much you can actually bring in. It’s super important. We do a list purge every year. We are about to get ready to do it now. We say, “Hey, if you’re not interested anymore, please unsubscribe yourself. If we don’t hear from you, we will unsubscribe you in 30 days.” We like to keep it super clean and make sure it’s our ideal client. But it’s difficult to communicate that to people.
 Russell: One of the things that happens to people, I have an email inbox. I have several accounts. It’s almost out of control. You go and get information, and there are some people that email you to buy things you already purchased. That might be the experience of somebody. Are you running into people that say, “I don’t want to be that person that relentlessly emails three times a day all day every day?” Is that a barrier to getting people to accept the idea of building a list?
 Juliet: It is in some sense. We let people know when they opt in that we send out a piece of content a week. Unless we are running a campaign, we usually don’t overemail our list. Once a week is enough to say, “Hi, I’m here, I’m providing value” without being obnoxious. With what we teach, we don’t constantly hammer for sales. We are building trust and bringing in people through the assessments and talking to them one on one, which is the best way to build a relationship.
 Hugh: That’s amazing.
 Russell: We should talk a little bit about the assessment process. I think I’ve seen some platforms that talk about creating assessments, but what are some of the things that you typically want to put in there? How do you actually talk to people about how to tailor those, how to use them? How do you use them yourself? I know that you talked about making sure you only had the right people in the community. What is the process for crafting the types of questions that are going to make sure you have the right people?
 Juliet: For us, first of all, we use the Smart Biz Quiz. I think it’s the best tool out there. It does collect the email, and it gives you a lot of information. It also has a commitment section, which puts together an auto-responder. It has its own auto-responder with it.
 The process we usually go through is what are the things you need to know most about your consumer? For you, you have five different consumers. You would have to go off in different directions with five different assessments.
 For platform building, first we want to find out if they know who their audience is. We go through that with them. On a scale of 1-10, we ask a couple questions. What we find out a lot of times is they don’t even know who their ideal client is. That may be something you guys need as well.
 Then we jump into what are your social media skills? Several questions. We usually try to keep it to three to four minutes’ worth of questions because we don’t want people to go away because they are bogged down.
 From social media, we go into list building.
 Then our last section is usually about building a funnel because we want to know if you have a funnel built or if you are starting from scratch. It’s basically what do you need to know about your consumer, and what is it your consumer needs to know about themselves? When you are looking at that- I love Jane Deuber who created this system. She positions it best because she talks about taking the view off of you and putting it on them. Let’s take the spotlight off me and put it on you and see where you are really at with all this.
 The last part of it is the commitment section. There you put your three biggest objections. On a scale of 1-10, you ask people for me it’s time, money, and do I want to fix the problem? We ask those questions, and then based on those answers, the auto-responder will put out an appropriate offer. On a 1-30 scale in the commitment level, if you come in between 20 and 30, we want to talk to you. We offer you a free strategy session. If you come in between 10 and 20, we have a medium range; we offer you an application. If you fill out that application, we want to talk to you. If you can’t be bothered, you go back in the nurture pile. With a 0-10, we give you something free. You’re probably not willing to fix the problem or invest in yourself, time or money-wise. That is what we look at because we want to be talking to people who are ready to purchase today. We are delegating our time, and we are keeping tabs on where people are at in the process.
 Hugh: Russell, how do you see that applying to getting donors, getting board members, getting volunteers?
 Russell: That is a great system. I have never heard anything. As you can see, I was writing furiously. That is brilliant. That is why I asked how you actually go about it. That makes perfect sense because right now, it is a numbers game. You are better off spending time around the people who are more engaged than trying to convince people and make a case. There is already a tribe out there. Get to the tribe. Get to the people who are ready. They come glass in hand and say, “I want my portion of the Kool-Aid.” That is where they are plugged in. Other people you can bring along. Because of the constraints on resources, nonprofit leaders just don’t have that kind of time to chase people who may or may not have an affinity. I think that is really great. I am going to check out this Smart Biz Quiz tool. I looked at another one, and to be honest, I haven’t gone back because they take something that is simple and make it a process. The important thing is to ask the best questions. It’s not the people who have all the answers; the questions need to change. Asking the best questions that positions you to be more helpful.
 Hugh: Juliet, are you familiar with a book by Ryan Levesque called Ask?
 Juliet: Yes, I am. A lot of this is right out of this. What’s interesting is before his book came out, I was already working with Jane Deuber’s tool because she created it before that book came out, I believe. What she does is brilliant with it. You’re always going to have those looky-loos, but you don’t want to spend time with them. I think this process really helps with that.
 Hugh: Looky-loos. She is not talking about- Russell is still writing. She is not talking about good-looking dudes like us.
 I am coming up with a paradigm shift here. We chase people. We beg them to come on board. We tell them there is not much work, and they know we’re lying. Turning the tables on this, we are looking for a few skilled volunteers. We are looking for a few committed board members. Russell, we deal with this low-performing culture. Charity leaders are reluctant to ask people to do things when the data shows that the more you ask of people, the more they are going to do. They find a reason to do it, and it’s connecting to their passion. Russell, am I making sense? Is there a paradigm shift here? As we are saying we are building a board here, here is an assessment, we want to check to make sure it’s a good fit. What are you thinking about that?
 Russell: When people write you a check, or even more importantly they have agreed to roll up their sleeves and spend some time with you, you have them. They are committed to what you’re doing. Asking a little bit more of them honors their commitment. If they have time constraints, they will be hesitant. It makes sense to ask these people who are already supporting you to help ramp up those efforts. Who do you know? Who else do you know that could come in and contribute time, talent, or treasure?
 Hugh: That’s right. We have people show up. We haven’t really segmented them. These are the tactical people. Here is the visionary people. Here are the introverts. Here are the extroverts. Here are the people who like to do phone follow-up work. Here are the people who hate to make phone calls.
 Sitting down in Clearwater, Florida, David, anything coming to your mind about how this assessment can help pre-qualify volunteers, board members, advisors, people like that?
 David: That is one of the primary methods. Through Juliet’s assignment process, you are funneling into the basins for where your clients want to be. The people who are responding into that survey, you are being able to automatically segment them through that sophistication.
 I listened to a podcast a couple weeks ago, and it was a marketing expert who was talking about how he restaffed his disc jockey wedding music business to the point where he utilized automation to hire people. He did precisely what Juliet has just described. He took them through a series of assessments and exercises first of all to see if they can follow directions. It’d be surprising how many people will read the email and respond when the email says, “Just send me the highlights of your career,” and somebody sends you the full resume. Things like that.
 I see the value in that assessment filter system to utilize a process for the nonprofit from board members to volunteers. Those board members who are- Every organization has them. I sat on several boards, and a lot of people would talk to me about how to get on a board. I want to get on a board. Those are the people that you really want to stay away from because they are looking more or less for something to hang on the far end of their name as opposed to somebody who wants to share their passion and their gifts and their time with the mission that the organization is based on. I think that filter system sounds great.
 Hugh: Juliet, we have used the word “funnel” a few times. There may be people who are listening who don’t understand that. It sounds like we pour them into a drain. How are you meaning put them into a funnel?
 Juliet: Depends on which bucket they went into. Some we might pour down the drain. When I talk about a funnel, I mean actually having a marketing campaign set up. I use the funneling assessment and the community as the head of my funnel. People who come into there, then we get them into our list. We also have campaigns that are behind that. It’s bringing them from social media into our world into social media into our list and then being able to sell them. You are taking this big crowd. It doesn’t look like this on the inside. It looks more like a spider web when you do it right.
 Let’s say you speak in front of a room and you invite people to come over and take your assessment. There will be a certain number of people who will actually do that. The rest will go away. From that assessment, you will invite people into your community. There are going to be people who took that assessment who may not want to be a part of your community. Then you get people inside who transition to the list. Not all of those people are going to go. You are narrowing down from a bigger group who a little interest, more interest, a lot of interest, we’re in. That is what you are really doing with all that, giving them baby steps and opportunities to come in. If they take them, great. If they don’t, let’s get it down to people who want the opportunity.
 Hugh: Ryan Levesque says in his book that people don’t like to do surveys, but they like to give their opinion. What have you found?
 Juliet: The way our system is set up, you’re not really giving an opinion. I bet if you did this for something like politics, everybody has an opinion. I think he’s right in that sense. But here’s the thing that entices them to take the assessment. When you position it in a way to find out where your skill level is really at, people are curious about that. I wonder if I am as good as I think I am. I wonder if I am as bad as I think I am. That is where the curiosity is getting in and finding out more about let’s look at you instead of let’s look at me. When you are down the line and selling something, it makes it much easier to sell whatever you’re selling when their defenses are down. If I have to go into a strategy session and say, “Your social media isn’t up to par,” your social media may not be up to par, but your immediate reaction is, “No, it’s not.” That wall goes up, and it makes it more difficult for me to close. When you are able to come into a webinar or a strategy session or a selling situation and you already know that you need the help, you’re much more open to the suggestion. You are much more open to me telling you that this is where you’re at and this is where your vision is and now let’s fill that gap. In a lot of ways, it has to be that curiosity about where they are as an individual on the topic.
 Hugh: There is a lot of nuances to this. I’ve ignored the primary piece that you were talking about, which is thinking how we engage people as volunteers, board members, servant leaders in the organization. There is one of the eight streams of revenue that we teach people how to create is earned income. It is selling things that are related to what you’re doing: books, events, doing trainings. There are business streams of earned income that are relevant to what the charity is doing. Utilizing a lot of these and then the idea of telling your story in a book, maybe even having an anthology where you have your tribe write a chapter or tell the story so that you have an anthology, which ups the investment of people investing in the books so they want to share it. Thinking about creating revenue streams by there is lots of books we can sell or programs we can sell. We could even sign on for affiliate programs. We teach charities to think about signing up at Walmart and getting a number so when people buy, they give your number, and Walmart takes a percentage and donates it to your charities. Grocery stores have the cards they use to donate to charities.
 We talked about how we interview people for meaningful volunteer work. Going back to creating the funnel, where can people go to learn about what you do and how you teach? Do you have webinars or self-studies? Or is it only working with Juliet?
 Juliet: We have seen a shift in the marketplace lately where people aren’t dying to work on self-studies anymore. Most of our programs are either one on one or group programs. The group program, I work one on one with you and build your first assessment, your community, and the editorial within it. Go to winsomemediagroup.com. There are a couple programs over there. The one where we build the community and the assessment is JulietClark.com/rdsm. You can find out more about that program. And we have a group over on Facebook, a platform building group. It’s Facebook.com/groups/platformbuilders.
 Hugh: Michael Hyatt has a book called Platform.
 Juliet: He does.
 Hugh: Any similarities in what he teaches and what you’re teaching?
 Juliet: I think if I had done the book back when he did, yes, there would be. But I think there has been so much change that has occurred since he wrote the first book. I’d love to see him come out with an updated version. I think there has been a shift in the marketplace that that book is very basic now. Our consumer has gotten much more savvy. I would love to see him write a more updated book in that sense. He’s got the basics.
 Hugh: Using that, he created quite a substantial tribe and a large footprint.
 We are on the final stretch of our interview. I‘m going to give Russell and David a chance to ask another question, and then I will do a wrap with Juliet. David? Russell? Who wants to go first?
 David: Russell is first.
 Russell: There is lots there. For those who were wondering what we’re talking about, I have not read the book yet, but I came across this, and I have forgotten that I downloaded it. It has remarkable charts on there. But I am going to go back and take it a step further because this is a wonderful valuable product that he just added and didn’t charge any money for. There is lots of information out there. But people don’t need more information. They need somebody to help them make more sense of it. Juliet, I am going to go to your community and sign in and learn a little bit more about how you employ these tools. It’s one thing to read it and another thing to see somebody actually take it and apply it. Remarkable stuff. I love this. You can never learn too much. It’s important.
 The last question I have on getting nonprofits or anybody on that matter, because you probably deal with small businesses and other people, too: What are the three most common objections you have to somebody embarking on the process?
 Juliet: Oh, that’s so easy. Time. I don’t have time to fix the problem. Platform building does take time. I don’t care what you see out there. Six figures in six months. 100,000 in 90 days. It’s a process. You don’t build a relationship in five minutes, and you don’t build a platform in five minutes. It is truly an integral process that takes I would say at least a good six months to a year when you build it organically.
 The second is money. There are a lot of books out there that tell people how to do it, but the biggest problem I see is that people are reading books. By the time they read the books, the information is outdated, and they are now bringing outdated platform pieces together and integrate them.
 The third is, I don’t need to do it; I will be discovered. A lot of people think that it’s as easy as I am going to put my stuff out there and some influencer will discover me and I will be on my way. That is about as likely as the next supermodel being found at age 12 in a store in Milwaukee.
 Hugh: That’s so real. As you know, entrepreneurs and most charities think because they have something worthy, people will beat a pathway to their door, and money will follow in their pockets, which is so far from true. There are ditches filled with people who didn’t make it. They fell off the road.
 David, in Clearwater.
 David: I don’t have any questions. I am sitting here aghast and amazed at the process. Like Russell, I am heading over to your spot to see just how bad I am.
 Juliet: How good you are. Position it nicely. Position it positively.
 David: I am trying to pick up on something you said earlier in the day. Yeah, you’re right. I am looking forward to finding out more about the process. Thank you.
 Juliet: Cool, thank you.
 Hugh: Juliet, what would you like to leave people with?
 Juliet: Start building your community the minute you have the idea. Whether it’s a book, a product, a service, validate it there before you spend a whole lot of money finding out that it’s not valid, that it doesn’t have a market, that it doesn’t have the purpose you think. Take all of that feedback that that community gives you, and figure out a way to make it all work if it’s a viable product. Don’t do it the other way around.
 Hugh: Juliet Clark, thank you very much. This has been priceless information today.
 Juliet: Thank you for having me.
 Hugh: Absolutely.
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        <![CDATA[<p>At Super Brand Publishing, we are experts at helping you become the world authority you always knew you could be. You know it. We know it. And this is how the rest of the world catches up.</p> <p>Confidence, passion, and a strong vision of her potential have all contributed to Juliet Clark's incredible success as a woman entrepreneur.</p> <p><strong>Juliet Clark</strong> founded Winsome Media Group in November 2009. Within 90 days of opening her coaching and publishing company, she had filled her coaching schedule and established herself as an expert helping people build their digital footprint to sell more books, products, and services.</p> <p>Juliet's ability to help other fast track their success has made her extraordinarily successful. She assists her clients in all facets of publishing, and book and business marketing.</p> <p>Juliet is passionate about helping authors achieve their dreams. In addition to personal coaching, Juliet is also known as a motivational speaker and teacher through her Author Success Academy and the Entrepreneur Success Academy. She also is the host of a podcast called Ask Juliet, which answers author's questions and features successful authors and speakers who have effectively build platforms.</p> <p>Specialities: Professional speaker, motivational speaker, business webinars, author business bootcamps</p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings to this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. Each week, we review techniques, strategies, skills, and culture development. We review all those things that are missing in the organizations that we lead. We bring in people who are successful in business, and they share their business strategies, their business skills, their framework for what they do. They have a specific area of expertise. Russell and I co-host this each week, and we encourage leaders in charities, all kinds, to install sound business principles into the organizations that they lead. Russell, welcome.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Happy Tuesday. Welcome again, everybody. It’s good to be here. Thank you, Juliet, for joining this. It’s a beautiful sunny day in Denver, Colorado, and we are finally north of 30 degrees.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I am in Virginia, the south central part of Virginia, and it is in the mid-60s. It is top down weather from the convertible. Our guest today, as you already let out of the bag, is Juliet Clark. Juliet, where are you coming in from?</p> <p><strong>Juliet Clark:</strong> I am coming in from Draper, Utah, where we actually broke 30 today as well. It’s sunny. The snow is thawing. But more snow tomorrow from what I hear.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Your company is Super Brand Publishing. There is also this Winsome Media group. I will let you talk about your background. Basically, what is the background that has given you the expertise to talk about what you are going to talk about today? The title of what we are talking about is How Community Building and Assessment Marketing Helped You Build Relationships. At the bottom of leadership, at the bottom of communication, at the bottom of attracting funding would be relationship. Juliet, welcome, and tell us a little bit about yourself.</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> Well, thank you for having me on, Russell and Hugh. I actually started out in the traditional publishing world and went on to advertising. I worked on the Nissan account, and then I moved on to Mattel to work on some of their products. Around 2008, I decided to write my first book, and I thought it would be a no-brainer getting it published. Self-publishing was brand new, and I went out and took my fiction novel, which—by the way I will tell you guys a little secret—I was going through a divorce. I wrote a mystery novel, and I killed my ex-husband. I was very anxious to get that published because it was either that or wear felony orange for the rest of my life. I am blonde, so not my color.</p> <p>To move on from there, I published my first book. I found a lot of inadequacies in the self-publishing world, things that I thought were super unethical. I created my own publishing company, so that is where my expertise began. By my third book, I had built my own platform and sold over 25,000 copies of that one. I was out of family members to kill, so that sold a lot more than my previous novels.</p> <p>I moved on from there. After that happened, my friends came and wanted me to help build their platforms. The company just morphed throughout the years. We were noticing entrepreneurs were writing books. When they brought them to us, we got a sense right away that this was not going to be the breakthrough product that their writing coaches had told them it would be. It was probably going to be another in a long line of failed products because they didn’t have a platform. That is where we are today.</p> <p>We have Winsome Media Group, where we focus primarily on building platforms for companies, coaches, authors, speakers, small businesses. Super Brand Publishing, where if you are really serious about that book needs to be a bestseller, we go back and we build ROI on those failed products and services that you have in the past and position that book as the icing on the cake instead of the main event. We are a fix-it crew that goes back and fixes all that other stuff that wasn’t done correctly and starts bringing ROI into your business.</p> <p>If I had to sum it up, I would say we are a marketing company disguised as a publishing company for the most part.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s key. To wrap around the relevance for the charities, it’s that we don’t know how to build this engagement model that you are talking about that is so important, building relationships. Before I go further, would you describe what you mean by “platform?”</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> A platform is where you build your audience, your fan base. In the fiction world, it was a little bit harder because you had characters you had to build that around. In the nonfiction world, it is building those people who are engaged in your business. I think there is a big gap out there between the digital world and the old networking ways that we used to work. There are people who are my age, probably 45 and older—not that I’m 45, but I will just pretend I’m down there— that they are really experts at being able to build relationships one on one. That is what we grew up with. But they don’t know how to bring in that digital space that they need. We teach them how to build relationships online because you can’t sell online unless you have relationships built. People don’t know you, like you, and trust you. Then we have this other group out there who are the younger generation, who are really invested in that digital platform, but they are not really great at building one on one relationships the way our generation is. We bring all of that together. We combine that personal and that digital to actually build relationships with people before you sell to them online.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is amazing. I have 250,0000 in various platforms, following on mostly Twitter. I am driving a large fast-growing platform on LinkedIn. But Facebook is my least favorite. That is your most favorite. All in all, social media is in fact social. I am amazed at how many people don’t treat it. Hey, I’m George, buy my stuff. It’s really disappointing to get those things all the time. I would say 95% of what I get is a very awkward approach. It’s like me inviting a girl out and saying, “Let’s kiss first.”</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> Exactly.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wait a minute. Why should I kiss you? There is this building a trusted relationship before people even want to consider anything that you’ve got. Let’s talk about the two pillars that were in the title. One is building a community. Talk about the context of what that means and why that’s important. The other piece is the assessment piece. Can you talk about those? Describe them, and talk about why they’re important.</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> Absolutely. Community building has recently become even more important than it was in the past. It used to be that you opened your business or your book page on Facebook. Because social media, and this is very important, social media is not yours, it belongs to the person who owns the platform. For Facebook, I may have several pages or communities, but they don’t belong to me. They belong to Mark Zuckerberg. At the end of the day, that’s his monetization platform. Now all of a sudden, business pages have become obsolete because he wants to monetize. That’s capitalism. So he has lowered visibility on those pages down to about 4-7% of the content that you produce people actually see. Inside of a community, which is a group on Facebook, people see 100% of what’s in there. 100% of what you post to 100% of the people who are in that community.</p> <p>Where the assessment marketing comes in is that once you have a community, and this is the old thinking of it, is that you build this community, you draw people in with Facebook ads, you put people in to that group, and then you find out what they want afterwards. The way that we do it is completely different because we use the assessment marketing to make sure we have our ideal client, our target market in that group. That’s how we use the assessment. Finding out where their skill levels are at, what kind of content do they need that will be valuable to them and create value to them. What skill level are they at? We use microcommitments within those. Are we speaking to beginners? Are we speaking to seasoned experts who would like to bump up where they are at in the world? We use that assessment marketing to create the engagement within the group. What questions do we ask them? How do we keep this going? What kind of content do they need to begin building trust with me? That is where we like to use those two together to make sure that we have not just a big group of people in there because that is all about ego, but the right people in there that we actually can serve.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Be careful of that ego thing. You have three males on the line here.</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> I don’t get a flavor that you’re really egocentric men.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Okay, thank you. Let’s frame this in a couple subsections. We are talking to charities who don’t commonly publish a book. Let’s rethink that. They really don’t tell their story, so there is another track that maybe they haven’t thought of and they can even get a sponsor to put their name on it and pay for the whole thing. There is that track. There is also the track of building the platform so that we have people in community, which is people together with a common philosophy, a common passion, things like that so that community is where people relate to and talk to each other. The most important thing I believe in online community isn’t content; it’s relationship. Would you agree or disagree?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> I think that’s the most important thing, but content plays a big part of that. In order to be able to show people your expertise, you need to be able to communicate value to them. That is where the content really comes in. I like to liken it to when you have a book. There is that concept that most writers don’t get, which is show, not tell. A community does the same thing through content. You are showing people that you are really an expert at what you do. You re showing them value instead of them saying, “Me over here, I’m a great guru. Buy from me.” You are laying out the trust factor there. People are getting to know you. You are giving them actionable tips so that they see that you really know what you’re doing and you are creating that value for them. When they are ready, the assessment marketing can drive them easily into a strategy session or more nurturing. It’s a nurturing sequence.</p> <p>I like to liken it to dating, sort of like you did. If I go out on a date with you and you say on the first date, “Juliet, would you marry me?” It is icky. Not that I feel icky with you, but you get it. I’m like looking around to see where the bathroom is and where that is positioned to the back door so I can call a cab and sneak out of there because it was too much, too soon, and it feels really icky. That is what all of this is about. I’m showing you that I have value and nurturing you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Let’s bring this back. These are really sound business principles for marketing. This is an area that charities are blind to: marketing and creating relationships and people who buy are donors. People who buy are sponsors. People who buy are grant makers. People who buy are board members who donate but they give their time. People who buy are volunteers. We take it for granted that people just want to show up because we have a passion. Being able to communicate a message, build a relationship, and show people why it’s important, I think it’s a missing skillset. What do you think about that repositioning of what you said?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> I think it absolutely is as well. A lot of people don’t do it because it’s time-consuming. It takes a lot to communicate, to sit down and write something up, or do a video. I think it’s definitely something that’s missing. The more that you can communicate with that crowd, the donor crowd, when you can show them a video, when you can speak to what the needs are, the better you are able to bring those people in because just you and me having a conversation, you may be passionate about it, but I will forget about that passion ten minutes later.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The passion needs to be internalized with whomever you are talking to.</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> It needs to be presented in a way they will remember. For some people, that is visual. For some people, that is reading about it, but yes, something they can go back and digest later as well.</p> <p>You mentioned a book. I actually did a really great book <em>Blue Laguna</em> for a nonprofit called Blue Laguna. They sell that book, and it’s something that you take home and put on your coffee table. People joined. We sold the book out because people were so enthralled by yes, I need to have that passion for cleaning up the ocean. Look at these beautiful animals. Things like that where people have a real takeaway and get a real sense of how far you are willing to go with your passion.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I just know so many charities that have such good stories and they never tell them, except in little circles. This idea of why don’t we do a book, and I’m sure you have ways to help people take the ideas and put them on paper.</p> <p>I am going to call on my colleague in the pink shirt. He says he has the perfect head; I think I have hair. We have to debate that. I think it takes a real man to wear pink, don’t you, Juliet?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> I love it when men wear pink.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are of course recording this for the podcast so people can’t see us. They can only imagine what Russell looks like wearing pink. Russell, you in a number of these sessions have made a really good point about when we are approaching board members or donors or sponsors to find out what they are interested in. What kind of thread do you see in that coming from what Juliet is talking about and building the community, building a platform, and engaging people in a meaningful conversation?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s just like any verbal language. Everybody has their language. You pointed out those five personas that are actually customers of ours. In the material I have put together for people, I have a customer profile that has turned up in both of my courses. You have to have a separate one for each group that you are talking to. We have technology that we are beholden to. You need the technology, but the old relationship building process and skills are still relevant and important. You have to take time to nurture these relationships on one hand, and on the other hand, you have to be where all the people you want to reach are. That puts you in the space where you have to do a little bit of everything. And that is what building the community is about.</p> <p>I talked with Rick Feeney, another publisher, at one point about having a nonprofit write a book because it is something for them to tell their story with. But Juliet has actually worked with some nonprofits. When you approach a nonprofit or you talk with an organization, what is the biggest hurdle that you have seen charities have to overcome to embrace this idea of building a community?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> That’s a great question. A lot of times, it’s the organization within the nonprofit. There is a lot of who is going to run this? We are spread so thin. Do we really have time to do the assessment? Do we have the avenue? Do I feel comfortable? Who is going to go out there and ask somebody to do platformbuilding.com or whatever yours is and see how this serves you, see where you’re at with this? There is a lot of resistance behind who is going to do it, mostly. When it comes to the book, it’s we don’t have money. We don’t have money to invest in something like this. Or even marketing. They don’t have money to invest in marketing. It’s usually one or two people who are really passionate about it, and they are out there trying to spend all their time raising money, and the administrative isn’t there to facilitate this. Would you guys agree?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s part of what we encourage people to move away- Even though we call this The Nonprofit Exchange, it’s a channel that people understand, but we try to encourage people inside the organizations. Russell used the word “charity.” It’s a tax-exempt charity, a social capital organization. We mistakenly go into this nonprofit as a philosophy and not a tax classification. There is a resetting of your thinking. A lot of organizations think they can’t afford it when in fact they should afford it because it will make a huge difference in their outcomes.</p> <p>Also, I do think there is a channel here if they came up with a really good proposal for what they are doing, why it’s important, what the impact is going to be. I think they can find somebody to fund it for them. They think about we can only fund it out of our budget instead of tapping into the people who are passionate about the mission and asking one of them to fund it or a combination of them funding it or do a crowdfunding campaign around the initiative.</p> <p>Guys, David has joined us. David Dunworth. Are you in Florida today, sir?</p> <p><strong>David Dunworth:</strong> Yeah, I’m in Florida. I had to go to Chicago for a couple of days.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You came back to thaw out. You and Russell, you are following this really neat thread. Coming from ostensive marketing background and knowing charities, what question do you have for Juliet?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> I literally don’t have any questions, but the comment on the book authorship is something that I have been talking with a couple of nonprofit people that I am presently working with that I think is one of the best vehicles to tell their story and unify their message, which not only works internally, but also externally. Like you said, Juliet, the coffee table book or whatever you want to call it, it’s the world’s greatest business card. I think that is an idea that really needs to propel itself forward. A great way to do things.</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> I didn’t mention there, one of the things we did inside the book as well was we had QR codes in there. You could actually take your phone and click on it and go to video, which I think was super powerful as well. The author of the book had Go Pro video out in the middle of a plot of orcas he was paddle boarding in. Blue whales and things like that. They were astounding. That was a huge part of bringing people in. His group has over, I think last time I checked, a million people at his business page over on Facebook because people grasp into what he was talking about with the ocean ecology.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s fascinating to try to go backwards to figure out what makes something go viral like that and catch on in a big way.</p> <p>Juliet, you spoke about you don’t really own the community in Facebook. Why would you do Facebook rather than setting up your own independent community?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> Here is what we do with it. We really encourage that through the assessment marketing, before someone can get the results, they have to give you an email address so they can get them. One of the things that we do very well from past experience is we transition as soon as we can people from Facebook into our email list. Ultimately, our email list is that tool that no one can take away from us. I would imagine for charities, it’s a huge way to build relationships with the donors as well. Look what we’re doing. See how we’re doing it. That’s one of the first things that we work on with the assessment: being able to have people get it, take it before they come into the group, and it’s a criterion to get into the Facebook community. We are immediately transitioning people so that we can contact them in the event something does happen and Facebook goes away. All of that came from a really bad experience one of my friends had over on MySpace where she had an online newsletter that got over 300,000 hits a month, and she was making money from sponsorships. When MySpace went away, she didn’t have a list. She lost all those people. That is part of what we do with the Facebook community. Have that group of people there, but we also work very hard to get them into our list as well.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When you are reaching out and creating relationship with people, why Facebook instead of LinkedIn or Twitter?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> I never thought Twitter was a great relationship building tool. I stay away from it. For me, it’s content curation instead of putting your own out there. It’s so wild. It’s a little like being on reality TV some days. I stay away from Twitter.</p> <p>LinkedIn is primarily used- If you look at the statistics, people jump on, they stay on for a few minutes, they look at what they need to look at, and they get off. Facebook is some place where people go to relax. They are clicking around, they stay on it a lot longer, it’s easier to build relationships and friendships over there than it is on those other platforms.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I find that people- Sorry?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> More social.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It is. Social media. I find that people on Facebook are my B2B contacts and they are serious about the conversations and are not looking at other things. They are looking for something meaningful. The most important relationships I have are people I met on Twitter, the highest-level thought leaders, the editor of our magazine for example. I met him on Twitter. He has a Ph. D in organizational leadership. We have been working together for years. We met on Twitter. He said, “I will come visit you.” We ultimately met in person. I have gotten a lot of traction on Twitter. You’re right. It can be like reality TV. Right now, it’s exploding.</p> <p>There is this weird thing going on in Facebook and Twitter especially that they are censoring things and deleting accounts. One day, I will wake up with 100 Twitter followers gone. It jumps around radically. I can just only figure that there weren’t 100 people who got up and hated me one day. 100 people lost their accounts. I can see censors. I don’t know anybody who has lost a Facebook account, but I have read things about Facebook doing similar things. To your point of making sure that you have something you own where you have those relationships like an email list.</p> <p>Russell, you’re moving around like you have a really good- Russell asks the hard questions. What’s brewing in that mind?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I was just thinking maybe if I could put some tweets out there to convince people that I am stable in my following.</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> Are you unstable?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> All those communities have a different audience and a different purpose. I just jumped out there initially because I thought, Well, I need to try to be everywhere and understand what these different platforms offer. I try to post stuff in all of them. As far as engagement goes, I probably have a little bit more interactivity on LinkedIn just for myself. What Juliet is talking about is really important to understand where your tribe is because the people that you’re trying to attract, if you have a diverse group age-wise, they will be all over the place. You may need to spend more time using one platform more than the other, but the key is in your donor database. Those names and the information that you collect. How strong a case do you have to make to get people to actually endeavor to build the list because the money is in the list? If they can build a donor database. How many people do you run across that don’t actually have a list? Is it difficult to make a case for them to do that?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> That’s a great question. We actually put polls inside of our community because we have a platform-building community. I do want to mention in order to get into our community, you have to fill out an assessment and some questions because we don’t take everyone. You have to be our ideal client. That is such a huge point because if you have a huge mishmash of people who aren’t interested, you destroy the energy of your group.</p> <p>Getting people to build a list is very difficult. They don’t, especially for book people because making a bestseller list has become so difficult. You can’t just have a bunch of sales on Amazon now. You need them over several platforms, which means you need to be talking to those people in your list before presale and finding out where they read. It’s really hard to communicate that to people, that that list is where all their money is at. If I send something out to my list, I know what percentage will open, and I pretty much can guess what percentage will purchase from there. If you just have a group of 1,300 people on Facebook and you have a small list, chances are they are not going to buy there. But if you have a large list, you can start looking at those analytics and find out how much you can actually bring in. It’s super important. We do a list purge every year. We are about to get ready to do it now. We say, “Hey, if you’re not interested anymore, please unsubscribe yourself. If we don’t hear from you, we will unsubscribe you in 30 days.” We like to keep it super clean and make sure it’s our ideal client. But it’s difficult to communicate that to people.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One of the things that happens to people, I have an email inbox. I have several accounts. It’s almost out of control. You go and get information, and there are some people that email you to buy things you already purchased. That might be the experience of somebody. Are you running into people that say, “I don’t want to be that person that relentlessly emails three times a day all day every day?” Is that a barrier to getting people to accept the idea of building a list?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> It is in some sense. We let people know when they opt in that we send out a piece of content a week. Unless we are running a campaign, we usually don’t overemail our list. Once a week is enough to say, “Hi, I’m here, I’m providing value” without being obnoxious. With what we teach, we don’t constantly hammer for sales. We are building trust and bringing in people through the assessments and talking to them one on one, which is the best way to build a relationship.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s amazing.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> We should talk a little bit about the assessment process. I think I’ve seen some platforms that talk about creating assessments, but what are some of the things that you typically want to put in there? How do you actually talk to people about how to tailor those, how to use them? How do you use them yourself? I know that you talked about making sure you only had the right people in the community. What is the process for crafting the types of questions that are going to make sure you have the right people?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> For us, first of all, we use the Smart Biz Quiz. I think it’s the best tool out there. It does collect the email, and it gives you a lot of information. It also has a commitment section, which puts together an auto-responder. It has its own auto-responder with it.</p> <p>The process we usually go through is what are the things you need to know most about your consumer? For you, you have five different consumers. You would have to go off in different directions with five different assessments.</p> <p>For platform building, first we want to find out if they know who their audience is. We go through that with them. On a scale of 1-10, we ask a couple questions. What we find out a lot of times is they don’t even know who their ideal client is. That may be something you guys need as well.</p> <p>Then we jump into what are your social media skills? Several questions. We usually try to keep it to three to four minutes’ worth of questions because we don’t want people to go away because they are bogged down.</p> <p>From social media, we go into list building.</p> <p>Then our last section is usually about building a funnel because we want to know if you have a funnel built or if you are starting from scratch. It’s basically what do you need to know about your consumer, and what is it your consumer needs to know about themselves? When you are looking at that- I love Jane Deuber who created this system. She positions it best because she talks about taking the view off of you and putting it on them. Let’s take the spotlight off me and put it on you and see where you are really at with all this.</p> <p>The last part of it is the commitment section. There you put your three biggest objections. On a scale of 1-10, you ask people for me it’s time, money, and do I want to fix the problem? We ask those questions, and then based on those answers, the auto-responder will put out an appropriate offer. On a 1-30 scale in the commitment level, if you come in between 20 and 30, we want to talk to you. We offer you a free strategy session. If you come in between 10 and 20, we have a medium range; we offer you an application. If you fill out that application, we want to talk to you. If you can’t be bothered, you go back in the nurture pile. With a 0-10, we give you something free. You’re probably not willing to fix the problem or invest in yourself, time or money-wise. That is what we look at because we want to be talking to people who are ready to purchase today. We are delegating our time, and we are keeping tabs on where people are at in the process.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, how do you see that applying to getting donors, getting board members, getting volunteers?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is a great system. I have never heard anything. As you can see, I was writing furiously. That is brilliant. That is why I asked how you actually go about it. That makes perfect sense because right now, it is a numbers game. You are better off spending time around the people who are more engaged than trying to convince people and make a case. There is already a tribe out there. Get to the tribe. Get to the people who are ready. They come glass in hand and say, “I want my portion of the Kool-Aid.” That is where they are plugged in. Other people you can bring along. Because of the constraints on resources, nonprofit leaders just don’t have that kind of time to chase people who may or may not have an affinity. I think that is really great. I am going to check out this Smart Biz Quiz tool. I looked at another one, and to be honest, I haven’t gone back because they take something that is simple and make it a process. The important thing is to ask the best questions. It’s not the people who have all the answers; the questions need to change. Asking the best questions that positions you to be more helpful.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Juliet, are you familiar with a book by Ryan Levesque called <em>Ask?</em></p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> Yes, I am. A lot of this is right out of this. What’s interesting is before his book came out, I was already working with Jane Deuber’s tool because she created it before that book came out, I believe. What she does is brilliant with it. You’re always going to have those looky-loos, but you don’t want to spend time with them. I think this process really helps with that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Looky-loos. She is not talking about- Russell is still writing. She is not talking about good-looking dudes like us.</p> <p>I am coming up with a paradigm shift here. We chase people. We beg them to come on board. We tell them there is not much work, and they know we’re lying. Turning the tables on this, we are looking for a few skilled volunteers. We are looking for a few committed board members. Russell, we deal with this low-performing culture. Charity leaders are reluctant to ask people to do things when the data shows that the more you ask of people, the more they are going to do. They find a reason to do it, and it’s connecting to their passion. Russell, am I making sense? Is there a paradigm shift here? As we are saying we are building a board here, here is an assessment, we want to check to make sure it’s a good fit. What are you thinking about that?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> When people write you a check, or even more importantly they have agreed to roll up their sleeves and spend some time with you, you have them. They are committed to what you’re doing. Asking a little bit more of them honors their commitment. If they have time constraints, they will be hesitant. It makes sense to ask these people who are already supporting you to help ramp up those efforts. Who do you know? Who else do you know that could come in and contribute time, talent, or treasure?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s right. We have people show up. We haven’t really segmented them. These are the tactical people. Here is the visionary people. Here are the introverts. Here are the extroverts. Here are the people who like to do phone follow-up work. Here are the people who hate to make phone calls.</p> <p>Sitting down in Clearwater, Florida, David, anything coming to your mind about how this assessment can help pre-qualify volunteers, board members, advisors, people like that?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> That is one of the primary methods. Through Juliet’s assignment process, you are funneling into the basins for where your clients want to be. The people who are responding into that survey, you are being able to automatically segment them through that sophistication.</p> <p>I listened to a podcast a couple weeks ago, and it was a marketing expert who was talking about how he restaffed his disc jockey wedding music business to the point where he utilized automation to hire people. He did precisely what Juliet has just described. He took them through a series of assessments and exercises first of all to see if they can follow directions. It’d be surprising how many people will read the email and respond when the email says, “Just send me the highlights of your career,” and somebody sends you the full resume. Things like that.</p> <p>I see the value in that assessment filter system to utilize a process for the nonprofit from board members to volunteers. Those board members who are- Every organization has them. I sat on several boards, and a lot of people would talk to me about how to get on a board. I want to get on a board. Those are the people that you really want to stay away from because they are looking more or less for something to hang on the far end of their name as opposed to somebody who wants to share their passion and their gifts and their time with the mission that the organization is based on. I think that filter system sounds great.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Juliet, we have used the word “funnel” a few times. There may be people who are listening who don’t understand that. It sounds like we pour them into a drain. How are you meaning put them into a funnel?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> Depends on which bucket they went into. Some we might pour down the drain. When I talk about a funnel, I mean actually having a marketing campaign set up. I use the funneling assessment and the community as the head of my funnel. People who come into there, then we get them into our list. We also have campaigns that are behind that. It’s bringing them from social media into our world into social media into our list and then being able to sell them. You are taking this big crowd. It doesn’t look like this on the inside. It looks more like a spider web when you do it right.</p> <p>Let’s say you speak in front of a room and you invite people to come over and take your assessment. There will be a certain number of people who will actually do that. The rest will go away. From that assessment, you will invite people into your community. There are going to be people who took that assessment who may not want to be a part of your community. Then you get people inside who transition to the list. Not all of those people are going to go. You are narrowing down from a bigger group who a little interest, more interest, a lot of interest, we’re in. That is what you are really doing with all that, giving them baby steps and opportunities to come in. If they take them, great. If they don’t, let’s get it down to people who want the opportunity.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Ryan Levesque says in his book that people don’t like to do surveys, but they like to give their opinion. What have you found?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> The way our system is set up, you’re not really giving an opinion. I bet if you did this for something like politics, everybody has an opinion. I think he’s right in that sense. But here’s the thing that entices them to take the assessment. When you position it in a way to find out where your skill level is really at, people are curious about that. I wonder if I am as good as I think I am. I wonder if I am as bad as I think I am. That is where the curiosity is getting in and finding out more about let’s look at you instead of let’s look at me. When you are down the line and selling something, it makes it much easier to sell whatever you’re selling when their defenses are down. If I have to go into a strategy session and say, “Your social media isn’t up to par,” your social media may not be up to par, but your immediate reaction is, “No, it’s not.” That wall goes up, and it makes it more difficult for me to close. When you are able to come into a webinar or a strategy session or a selling situation and you already know that you need the help, you’re much more open to the suggestion. You are much more open to me telling you that this is where you’re at and this is where your vision is and now let’s fill that gap. In a lot of ways, it has to be that curiosity about where they are as an individual on the topic.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a lot of nuances to this. I’ve ignored the primary piece that you were talking about, which is thinking how we engage people as volunteers, board members, servant leaders in the organization. There is one of the eight streams of revenue that we teach people how to create is earned income. It is selling things that are related to what you’re doing: books, events, doing trainings. There are business streams of earned income that are relevant to what the charity is doing. Utilizing a lot of these and then the idea of telling your story in a book, maybe even having an anthology where you have your tribe write a chapter or tell the story so that you have an anthology, which ups the investment of people investing in the books so they want to share it. Thinking about creating revenue streams by there is lots of books we can sell or programs we can sell. We could even sign on for affiliate programs. We teach charities to think about signing up at Walmart and getting a number so when people buy, they give your number, and Walmart takes a percentage and donates it to your charities. Grocery stores have the cards they use to donate to charities.</p> <p>We talked about how we interview people for meaningful volunteer work. Going back to creating the funnel, where can people go to learn about what you do and how you teach? Do you have webinars or self-studies? Or is it only working with Juliet?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> We have seen a shift in the marketplace lately where people aren’t dying to work on self-studies anymore. Most of our programs are either one on one or group programs. The group program, I work one on one with you and build your first assessment, your community, and the editorial within it. Go to winsomemediagroup.com. There are a couple programs over there. The one where we build the community and the assessment is JulietClark.com/rdsm. You can find out more about that program. And we have a group over on Facebook, a platform building group. It’s Facebook.com/groups/platformbuilders.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Michael Hyatt has a book called <em>Platform.</em></p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> He does.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Any similarities in what he teaches and what you’re teaching?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> I think if I had done the book back when he did, yes, there would be. But I think there has been so much change that has occurred since he wrote the first book. I’d love to see him come out with an updated version. I think there has been a shift in the marketplace that that book is very basic now. Our consumer has gotten much more savvy. I would love to see him write a more updated book in that sense. He’s got the basics.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Using that, he created quite a substantial tribe and a large footprint.</p> <p>We are on the final stretch of our interview. I‘m going to give Russell and David a chance to ask another question, and then I will do a wrap with Juliet. David? Russell? Who wants to go first?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> Russell is first.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There is lots there. For those who were wondering what we’re talking about, I have not read the book yet, but I came across this, and I have forgotten that I downloaded it. It has remarkable charts on there. But I am going to go back and take it a step further because this is a wonderful valuable product that he just added and didn’t charge any money for. There is lots of information out there. But people don’t need more information. They need somebody to help them make more sense of it. Juliet, I am going to go to your community and sign in and learn a little bit more about how you employ these tools. It’s one thing to read it and another thing to see somebody actually take it and apply it. Remarkable stuff. I love this. You can never learn too much. It’s important.</p> <p>The last question I have on getting nonprofits or anybody on that matter, because you probably deal with small businesses and other people, too: What are the three most common objections you have to somebody embarking on the process?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> Oh, that’s so easy. Time. I don’t have time to fix the problem. Platform building does take time. I don’t care what you see out there. Six figures in six months. 100,000 in 90 days. It’s a process. You don’t build a relationship in five minutes, and you don’t build a platform in five minutes. It is truly an integral process that takes I would say at least a good six months to a year when you build it organically.</p> <p>The second is money. There are a lot of books out there that tell people how to do it, but the biggest problem I see is that people are reading books. By the time they read the books, the information is outdated, and they are now bringing outdated platform pieces together and integrate them.</p> <p>The third is, I don’t need to do it; I will be discovered. A lot of people think that it’s as easy as I am going to put my stuff out there and some influencer will discover me and I will be on my way. That is about as likely as the next supermodel being found at age 12 in a store in Milwaukee.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s so real. As you know, entrepreneurs and most charities think because they have something worthy, people will beat a pathway to their door, and money will follow in their pockets, which is so far from true. There are ditches filled with people who didn’t make it. They fell off the road.</p> <p>David, in Clearwater.</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> I don’t have any questions. I am sitting here aghast and amazed at the process. Like Russell, I am heading over to your spot to see just how bad I am.</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> How good you are. Position it nicely. Position it positively.</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> I am trying to pick up on something you said earlier in the day. Yeah, you’re right. I am looking forward to finding out more about the process. Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> Cool, thank you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Juliet, what would you like to leave people with?</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> Start building your community the minute you have the idea. Whether it’s a book, a product, a service, validate it there before you spend a whole lot of money finding out that it’s not valid, that it doesn’t have a market, that it doesn’t have the purpose you think. Take all of that feedback that that community gives you, and figure out a way to make it all work if it’s a viable product. Don’t do it the other way around.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Juliet Clark, thank you very much. This has been priceless information today.</p> <p><strong>Juliet:</strong> Thank you for having me.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Conversations with Barry Auchettl</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/conversations-with-barry-auchettl</link>
      <description>Barry Auchettl (ock-er-tell) is a world leader in communications from the Gold Coast, Australia. Barry is the creator of Conversations: an inspirational game, which transforms ordinary talk into meaningful connections. Having a Masters of Education, he is also trained facilitator of The Virtues Project and The Blue Wren project for the prevention of domestic violence.  He is currently working towards being a Non-Violent Communication facilitator. Barry is an author, international keynote speaker and runs a six month Life Vision Mentoring program, that specializes in clearing sabotages and creating authentic communication. He is also the founder of Eye Power vision improvement services.
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis again for The Nonprofit Exchange. As usual, we have a very intriguing guest on this episode. Barry Auchettl from just south of Brisbane, Australia. It’s called the Gold Coast, Barry.
 Barry Auchettl: It’s called the Gold Coast here.
 Hugh: Oh yeah. Russell is in Denver, and we are having a good time. We are having to accommodate the time because our normal time for Barry would be in the middle of the night. He likes us, but he doesn’t like us that well. We are accommodating. Barry, I put a little dangler out there about Barry Auchettl. We are talking about Conversations today. We will leave that hanging for a minute. Tell people who Barry is.
 Barry: Hi, Hugh. Hi, Russell. Great to meet you guys again. My background is quite varied. I have a varied background. I started off as an accountant for Pricewaterhouse. I worked through the lines of there for a few years and recognized that accounting really wasn’t my thing. It gave me a great background into business and how businesses work. I decided then I was going to go teaching. I had a calling to teach. Ended up teaching for about 15 years. My areas of expertise were accounting, computers, and religious education, of all things. I have a theology degree as well. I have a business degree, a theology degree, and a Masters in Education. It keeps me busy. About 1997, it actually happened, I left teaching in ’97 to start up my own business called Eye Power, which has now been operating for 21 years. Eye Power is about improving people’s physical eyesight, but it also looks at people’s vision of life and how the two are connected. That’s really what I have been working with in a whole variety of fashions since ’97.
 Hugh: Now Conversations is the topic of this interview. Conversations is technically a game, but it’s a game with a purpose. What was the inspiration for developing it? It’s pretty intricate and complex. It’s easy to play, but you can tell there is a lot of psychology, philosophy, thought underneath the principles here. What was your inspiration for creating this tool?
 Barry: It’s really a communication tool for connecting people. That’s what it is, and transforming relationships. The origin of this game is fascinating. As much as I have a teaching background and I was helping groups, by that stage, I was helping and supporting adults. I was recognizing that people weren’t communicating properly. But I had no intention. This was way back in 2001. All I did was I went to bed one night really frustrated because my work wasn’t taking off like I wanted it to. When you are a start-up business sand things are really slow, I was frustrated one night. I went, “What is going on here?” I went to sleep that night, and I literally had a dream about the Conversations game that night. I had all these things I had to get done. In the next three days, I put together the Conversations game. I don’t know how, but all the other things got done as well. I don’t remember doing anything else. I just remember working on doing the very basics of the Conversations game. Within two weeks, Neale Donald Walsch, whose Conversations with Godand founders of Humanity’s Team, a nonprofit organization, played the game and really endorsed it. He said this is fantastic. You have to get this out there.
 Hugh: You need to bring it to America. We’re not talking to each other.
 Barry: Look, I have been really lucky. I have had the fortune of going around the world. By and large, people are the same. One thing I have found around the world is when we take out our politics and religions, underneath all of that, we are wanting to connect to each other and be kind and look after our families and have a good life. It’s almost a basic process. What I found that the game does, and I have played it with people, I have had ten countries play at once on Zoom, it was a fascinating experience to see that we are all- This experience we are all one. We are all having the same issues, concepts, desires, wishes.
 Hugh: It’s fascinating, isn’t it. Give us a couple of examples of here is what was going on, people were not connecting. They did the game. On the other end, what happened?
 Barry: One of the very early ones that came to mind is the first birthday of Conversations, and I decided to have an open house and invite people around. I had one person walk in. She was from a fundamental, strict religious background. She was making sure that there was nothing spooky going on because it would affect her religious beliefs. I said have a seat, have a cuppa, you’ll be all right. I eased her into it. The next person who walked in, I said, “Welcome to the game. Would you like a cup of tea before we start?” She literally looked up to the sky and said, “Yes, my angels told me I could have a cup of tea.”
 Hugh: Oh wow.
 Barry: Wow, this is going to be an interesting game. It was almost two extremes in terms of beliefs that you could get, you know. This is way back. This was back in the mid-2000s, the one-year release when I printed the game in 2005, so it was 2006. I was thinking, Oh my goodness, what is going to happen here? How are these people going to get on? What happened is a miracle, I believe is a miracle. I have played this game around a thousand times. The miracle was not only did they have an argument, because I could see their different viewpoints, but somehow the game drew out of them what was similar, so much so that not only did they not have an argument, but they also exchanged phone numbers and became friends. That showed to me the potential then of what could happen with the game.
 Hugh: Oh my word. I guess people need to come to the game with an open mind and a willingness to talk.
 Barry: That’s right, and just be open. The game is designed in a way that people talk as deep as they are comfortable with. The idea is slightly bend people’s comfort zones, not push them out of their comfort zone. Let’s extend ourselves and see how it goes. A good example is I received two emails once. One was from a grandfather, and one was from his granddaughter. They both sent me a letter to thank me because they had their first ever real conversation with each other. They talked to each other with their family, and the traditional roles, especially as a grandparent, and I guess they talked to each other as two human beings having a conversation.
 Hugh: Barry, that’s the big gap in all of our systems. We are talking to leaders that are running religious institutions, membership organizations, cause-based charities, community foundations. We are talking to people who have a very tight network of people gathered around a particular philosophy. That doesn’t mean they talk to each other. The church in America, the mainline denominations, there is a little bit of revitalization energy going on, but we have lost a lot of members. Part of it is this whole thing is we come and we sit, we don’t interact, and we go home. We don’t talk to each other in meaningful ways. Can we play a little bit of this game with you and Russell?
 Barry: The game normally goes between one and two hours, but we can do a ten-minute demo, which will give you guys and everyone listening a feel of what this is about. Russell hasn’t played it, and I can see he is intrigued already, aren’t you, Russell?
 Hugh: He is intrigued. Russ, you’re ready? You wanting to do this?
 Russell Dennis: I’m ready to rock and roll.
 Barry: Okay. The game itself as an outline, the game itself has three cycles. It has an Aspect cycle, which is an aspect of life. That might be career or health or something like that. Then we look at a Life cycle, which they call the Drama card. That was the easy part for me to do. Then we have the Inspiration cycle, which is to step out of that. That’s really what the game is all about: that whole inspiration of how to move forward. The purpose of the game-
 Just before we play here, I want to take up your point about communication. I believe real authentic communication is a two-way process. One is we need to be able to speak and feel safe speaking. Authentically speak, and know that we won’t be criticized. Part of this game is when someone speaks, no one comments on them. They get to speak without anyone saying that was a good answer or a bad answer or “Why don’t you do this?” or try to fix someone. There is no fixing allowed in this game. In actual fact, we only use “I” statements. That’s part of the game. We only use “I” statements. There is no “You need to do this.” It’s for me, I might choose to meditate more, or something. That’s the first part.
 The second part of the game, and it’s really important, and I used to call it active listening, about really listening to each other. I have shifted that in the last six months because I have done some work with nonviolent communication and empathic communication. I really believe now it’s about empathic listening. It’s not just listening to the words; it’s listening to what is behind the words. When we can really do that and tune in and get a feel for what the person is about and have some empathy for the person and have some empathy for yourself, you can then relate what is being said to yourself. That part, the game creates that.
 The final part that I can’t create but the game somehow magically does is to create an openness and a connection with all those who play. Because somehow by having people have a physical card in their game gives them position to open up. It just seems to do that. When we do that, we recognize we are similar.
 That is a real introduction. I am going to start the game with us.
 Hugh: Drumroll please.
 Barry: Okay. So we are going to get through each cycle and keep it really short. Our answers are down to a minute to allow a ten-minute idea we suggested. The first part of the cycle is we choose an aspect. Hugh, because you have played before, I am going to choose an aspect for you. These are so-called random. I don’t believe in random. The aspect I have for you is “Fame and Glory.”
 Hugh: Fame and glory.
 Barry: I will give you one of the doc points. And the doc point here is “See yourself as equal to others.”
 Hugh: Okay.
 Barry: I want you to comment on what fame and glory means for you, in context of nonprofit organizations.
 Hugh: In seeing myself as equal to others. Was that the other part?
 Barry: Yes. That was the point that came up for you, yes.
 Hugh: Part of how I perceive that is that I like the statement “Nobody is perfect, but parts of me are excellent.” There is parts of me that are really good. I focus on those. I just take it in stride. Other people value it and say, “Ooh, that’s really good.” It’s part of who I am. It’s my way of giving to other people. Fame and glory for me is just focusing on what I do really well and maximizing that gift, that space that I give to others.
 Barry: Okay, thank you. Everyone playing can relate to that. I am nodding, and I can see Russell nodding as well. I’m sure this will also relate to all the people listening. It’s interesting how this game, it’s for one person but can expand to everyone. That’s the amazing part.
 Russell, I have a card for you. Your card is “Rest and Relaxation.” And the doc point, there are four doc points with each of these cards to help people with their answer. I am going to give you one of them. The one I want you to comment on is “Allow the soul time to recuperate.”
 Russell: Rest and relaxation. I am a firm believer that for me, it’s important to raise my level of consciousness, whatever I am facing. That is what fuels me and gives me energy to go out and try to make a difference in the world. In order to give, I believe we live in a reciprocal universe. I have to recharge my batteries from time to time so that I am able to serve at a high level and give to other people. For me, what’s restful and relaxing is my meditation practice that I do daily. It’s a chance for me to shut down, notice what’s going on within me, and look at my day. Just not attach myself to anything, whether it’s good or bad. But just to notice where I’m at. And harvest a supreme gratitude so that I can continue to serve and recharge. Part of that rest and relaxation is turning the squirrel cage off and sensing that connection to the universe.
 Barry: That’s wonderful. Thanks, Russell. Thanks for coming out and sharing that with us. First game. You jumped into it. That’s awesome. I am amazed at how close the answers can be as we get these.
 I am going to choose mine to round the first cycle off. The card I have is “Humor.” That’s a good one here. I am going to read the very first point, “It’s only a game.” I think it’s a really good one for me. Sometimes I can take myself so seriously. Playing this Conversations game, it’s a very serious game. We are going to go deep, and we better not smile because it’s serious. I think it’s really important for me always to remember to bring humor. When I educate people, when I do my training, I do a six-month mentoring training around the world, I have to use humor as part of that because otherwise I get bored. I think it’s a great way. When people laugh, we learn. I have a big belief that we can go deep and laugh at the same time. It’s not a choice.
 Really interesting three cards. We have “Fame and Glory, “ “Rest and Relaxation,” and “Humor” coming up for the three of us. Really interesting combinations.
 That’s the first cycle. People go around. If we have time at the end, which we won’t do today, we can look at where the connections are between each of those aspects. It’s quite interesting in itself
 Hugh: How many people can do this at one time?
 Barry: The game has sixteen aspects. I normally run small groups between two and 32 people because 32, you pair people up and do things like that. I have actually played with 300 people at a conference, where they had me play with the entire audience. It is possible to play the game with large groups. You just do it differently. It’s part of the facilitation process I’ve done with this, and with an educational background, I have been able to create a variety of ways of playing the game. It was used in a 300-seat auditorium in New Zealand, and that got me to be the entertainment at halftime to connect people.
 Hugh: Sweet.
 Barry: Let’s continue. We will go into our Life cycle. We usually call this the Drama cycle. Each would get a turn by the way if it’s a small group. If it’s a large group, we obviously couldn’t. We are going to choose one card as an example. Russell, you are choosing the card for us. All you need to do is I will read the card out, then you say what does it mean for you, and what does it mean in terms of your aspect? I will get you to invite only one of us to speak. One of the things you will learn in this game is you don’t always have to speak about everything all the time. For some people, that’s a good learning process. Oh, I don’t have to say something. I will let you choose whether Hugh talks about fame and glory with this card or if I talk about humor from that viewpoint. But what I want you to do is say what this card means to you and what it means in terms of rest and relaxation. That’s what you need to do at this point. You don’t have to agree with the card; you can disagree. These aren’t stone tablets; you can disagree with them. The card says, “I find it difficult to love myself.”
 Russell: What that means to me is that person doesn’t really recognize how exceptional they are. Hugh, what does that card mean to you?
 Hugh: I don’t have difficulty with that. My standards are pretty low. I accept myself. I criticize myself heavily, but judging my performance and loving myself, I have been able to think of in different ways. Part of fame and glory, and Barry, I get to conduct an orchestra this season, and that is very public, and in my community, that is part of fame and glory. I am up there, and when you are in front of everybody, they will judge you. I have gotten to a place where I do what I do, and celebrate it because I know somebody will like it. That means being comfortable in loving myself. It’s a journey of saying, I am going to let go of the flaws and love myself just how I am. That is part of personal empowerment for me.
 Barry: Awesome, thank you. Russell, since it was your card, did you want to make any other comments before we move on?
 Russell: I think that’s an interesting card. A lot of people may or may not choose to look at that. It’s something that’s important to look at as far as rules surrounding how we set living for ourselves. I love this. This is really deep. The way to solve things is to look within myself and start there.
 Barry: One thing we will do in a game is I would probably call you in a real game to say “I” statements than “we.” For me, this means… It’s a key concept in this game to keep coming back to self. The rest of us go, “Oh yeah, I can relate to that as well.” My own personal journey, I am a little bit stubborn. When anyone tells me what to do, I tend to do the opposite.
 Russell:People don’t want to be told what’s wrong.
 Barry: Like we said, we all need to meditate. Oh yeah, sure. When you say, “I meditate every day,” I can relate to that, or maybe I need to do that, whatever it is. It gives people permission to come on board without the request or the demand to come on board. That’s an important process.
 We are going to keep this fairly quick and move to the Inspiration cycle. Russell, I will start with you again. Inspiration is about maybe one sentence about this, let’s keep this fairly short. This is moving it up toward a higher level. The Life card shows a drama aspect, and this takes us to another place. Your card says, “What would happen if everyone did this?”
 Russell: I believe that if everybody did this that there would be an increase in the level of collective consciousness for all the people who participate.
 Barry: Awesome, thank you. My card says, “Give to another whatever you choose to have for yourself.” It’s really interesting because I have been doing a mentoring program. As I support other people in stepping up, and it is about raising their consciousness as well, I work in raising consciousness and frequency as I am helping them to raise their consciousness and frequency, mine increases as well. It comes back to me. I think that’s a great card for me.
 Hugh, your card is, interesting one, “Affirmations work better when they are about something that is already true for you.”
 Hugh: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. At 72 years old, I’m finding that anything I do, there’s still room for growth. Working on the skills I have my top skills makes them better. The ones that are down the ladder a little bit, I do not need to mess with those. I want to focus on affirming who I am and what I do. Focusing what I am makes it better, and that my top skills, it makes them continue to grow.
 Barry: Awesome, thank you. That is a quick version. That was about 15 minutes. We could have discussed that further with each other, particularly cycle two. That gives us a feel of what this is about. Before we continue the interview, I want to complete the game properly. Hugh, could you say what you personally got out of the game, in one sentence, for yourself? What did you find out about yourself from this game?
 Hugh: Absolutely. It made me think about myself in ways that I would not normally do. I felt a little vulnerable, but it felt safe.
 Barry: Great, thank you. Russell?
 Russell: I love this game. I think it’s wonderful. The thing I notice is I happen to be very careful because of the circles I run around in. I run into a lot of like-minded people. My language in general is inclusive. But I have to be very careful to come from the place of talking from within my own experience so that I’m not putting anybody on the spot but being more inviting for them to relate in the way that is comfortable for them.
 Barry: Thank you. That’s a wonderful insight. For me, I have played this game over a thousand times, and I don’t get bored. I always learn something about myself. This is a workshop in a box. You get to play a workshop every time. The key for me is what was my inspiration card was, as a reminder that I am of service to others. That comes back to me. I am recognizing my life is amazing at the moment. I am probably the happiest I’ve ever been in my life, and I am serving people more than I ever have. The two are hand in hand, so that’s pretty cool.
 That’s the nutshell of the game. Congratulations, Russell, on completing your first demo. Hugh, you have played this a number of times now.
 Hugh: It’s always different, Barry. It seems to always be different for me. You go to a museum, and you se a great work of art. It’s different every time I look at it. There is more depth to it.
 Barry: It’s true for me. I do get bored pretty easily in life. I have done a whole lot of different things. This is something I do not know a game that I play where I was bored because you always are learning. I can play a whole game and just listen to people talk. You go, Wow. It’s fascinating to not to have to be the speaker and let people talk about what is happening and how it relates to me. I can relate to both of what you said, Hugh and Russell, in terms of my own life.
 Hugh: I’m sorry, Russ. Go ahead.
 Russell: The one aspect of this is it never gets old because every time you sit down with it, you’re in a different place. I think the dynamics of solving very real human problems requires me, there I go again, lesson learned, to look at where I’m at and to constantly evaluate how I can do that and how I communicate with other people. It’s all dynamic.
 Barry: Where I started with that was with my own family. That was the first place I played the game. It really connected my own family. I can remember my children were already teenagers at the time. The older boys were quite talented in all sorts of things, even as teenagers, they are setting up international businesses. That entrepreneurial skill. My daughter said, “How can I be like you guys?” or something like that. After the game, they turned to her and said how amazing they thought she was and the life she has ahead of her and her talents and gifts. It opened up on a heart base to each other. My daughter is now having an engagement party here in Australia next month, and my two boys are flying in from America and England just to be at her engagement party, just to support her. It’s really connected them together for life.
 Hugh: What I have experienced that is different than normal interactions is that being a musician, I have worked on my listening ability my whole life. We need to be very intentional about listening. Your pivot from active listening to empathetic listening, I believe I heard the word, is there is a willingness to understand the intent behind this. It’s a whole different paradigm. Where has that been very helpful in the games where people have been at odds? Where has that perspective been helpful?
 Barry: I think it’s helpful when we recognize that we have different language. Sometimes we can get caught up on the words. I know for corporate in some organizations, one of the aspects is “unconditional love.” Sometimes I have a corporate edition, which calls it “unconditional acceptance.” I recognize that sometimes it’s just our language that holds us back in the words that we use. If we can go behind the words and get a feeling for what is going on, we are not going to get caught in the language. When we use words, especially words that can have a charge, when we talk about love or God or universe or spirit, people have different ways of expressing that. Just allowing and accepting of that that ultimately we are referring to the same thing. The energy behind it is what’s important.
 Hugh: Nonprofits and religious institutions attract people around a cause. We have passion to the cause. It doesn’t mean that we know how to interact around how we work together. I think there is a big gap. We spend time texting, and we spend time on the cell phone, and emailing, and doing things on our computer, and posting on social media. We are not really having a conversation where we are listening and where we are using I statements. This takes us out of all those routines and has a face-to-face relationship. I see in nonprofits, there is a lot of important work for us to do. Government shouldn’t be doing some of the stuff they are trying to do. Nonprofits can come in and have a neutral place and do some healing and some philanthropic work that we are cut out to do. That would necessitate us being, I call it a new architecture of engagement. How do we show up as this fine-tuned music ensemble? We are in there working together. There is a special place for nonprofits in this communication area. How do you see it playing there?
 Barry: Can I make a comment about that? I actually used to work for a project called Living for Harmony in Australia. It was about bringing all the different cultures together and recognizing how we can get on together than being separate. That was a project about bringing people from the straight tribes to politicians together and being open together and trying to be honest with each other. The game is part of that process of connecting people, of having a deeper conversation. It’s been played in church groups, in nonprofit groups, in corporations, in schools, in universities. It’s whenever we need to have a greater conversation, and I believe especially wen we are talking about nonprofits. A lot of people in nonprofits come in and volunteer their time because there is a higher purpose to why they are doing it. In return, sometimes, all they want to do is be heard. They want to have a voice and hear that what you’re doing matters and is important to us. We’re hearing you, we’re listening to you, and you are important.
 Hugh: Russell, what are you thinking there?
 Russell: I think that is critical: being able to get support for the mission in nonprofits because you have so many different audiences that you are talking to. Some of them are internal. Your staff, your board, your volunteers/servant leaders, as we like to call them. There is the community you work in. The various people who support you, whether it’s through corporate sponsorship or grant people or individual donors. It’s important to talk to people in terms that are meaningful to them without losing who you are. Having the good conversation is critical to that. It’s difficult to find that language where it works for everyone so that there is no misunderstanding. It’s what it’s all about. That’s how you bring people into the fold, or the way that I feel you bring people into the fold is that you connect with them at a deep level so that you are working toward the same things. You have that deep understanding. And it’s the ability to put what needs to be done ahead of my own individual goals for the greater good. It’s important to have good conversations around how you do that.
 Barry: Definitely. Well spoken.
 Hugh: The whole shift in paradigm, Barry, it takes us out of feeling like we have to have the answer to something to the place where we are exploring what the answers could be. One of the religious writers I read is Richard Rohr. He is very eloquent in talking about non-dual thinking. We want it to be good or bad, left or right, up or down, debit or credit. There is a third way, a different way, multiple different ways. Instead of being dualistic, let’s talk about the other options. Part of this, do you experience when people are playing the game, that there are times of silence, where there is some profound things going on without words?
 Barry: It’s interesting because the realization. I will give you two examples of this. Part of the game, when we say don’t interrupt people, is to allow people an opportunity to sit with the card they pull for a while. Sometimes it can have a profound effect. Part of the magic of the game is not only do they get a card, but in the game, we seem to get the exact cards that we need on the day. It seems to happen that way. We have had two cases.
 One case I remember, a guy got “Personal Growth and Spirituality.” It was a group of about 20 people. He threw the card on the ground and said, “I don’t want to play.” It was really good because nobody in the group reacted. They just looked at me, like what are you going to do. I said, “It’s your choice. We won’t force you to do anything here. Do what you feel comfortable with.” But he said, “I want to stay.” I said, “All right.” I thought about it. It was a choice: What are you going to do? You can stay. It felt like he needed to stay. He stayed.
 We got about halfway through, and we had a break. We started playing the second half of the game, and I said, “Any questions?” He put his hand up and said, “Barry, can I play again?” And I said, “Sure. Your card is on the ground, exactly where you left it. You can go pick it up.” Spoken like a true teacher. He went and picked the card up, and I said, “Who wants to go next?” His hand went straight back up again, and he wanted to go next. He pulled a card, and what came up was that he had a rebirth in his spiritual life and walked away from it. This night was the time that he came back to it. He recognized that he couldn’t run away from it anymore. It was an amazing process. It was in the silence of no one trying to fix him and allowing him to make that choice to return to the game, to return to his own spiritual life that created a change in him. That was quite remarkable.
 Since I did get humor, I had another one. A lady got “Food.” She almost walked out. She got food. “I shouldn’t get food. I should have gotten personal growth and spirituality or unconditional love. I got food. I should have gotten something more important than that. I don’t want to play.” I said, “Look, that’s fine.” Why do people keep asking permission? She got up to leave. She got to the door. At the door, she turned around and looked at the group. The light bulb moment. She said, “Maybe it’s because I had an operation on my stomach last month.” The entire group started laughing, like the connection was so strong. It made her laugh to recognize that’s what was important to her. Of all the aspects, food has the biggest charge for people because how we relate to food or how we don’t relate to food and use it as an emotional crutch and all sorts of things.
 Those scenarios show me the power is what’s behind the game more than what I do or even more than what the game does. It’s almost like its own energy that runs with it.
 Hugh: There is a shift for me. We are in a high performance culture, no matter where you live. We are expected to do things. We can shift from being human doings to human beings and live in the moment. Be in touch with parts of us that we haven’t been in touch with in a while.
 Barry: Totally. My greatest gift, and I am grateful, is the fact I get to do this all the time. I get to open up and see and witness people opening up. The two biggest groups I get to witness is one, the person who is really quiet and doesn’t say anything. We normally get a card and say, “I don’t normally speak, and I don’t know what to say. If I had to say something, it would be this wisdom.” Then the other one is the person, you might know those people as well, are the ones who talk all the time. They come up to me at the end and say, “It was great that I didn’t have to have an answer for everything. I learned that I can actually be quiet,” because part of their thinking process is they have to have an answer for everything that is said.
 Hugh: Isn’t that funny? We have imposed that on ourselves. We have to fill every minute with talking, and we have to have answers for everything. I keep seeing celebrities being interviewed, and the interviewer wants to trick them and ask these hard questions. They stumble with their answers. I think, Why do you try to answer? Just say next question. I am not answering that. Oh my
 Russell: I have been trying for myself to operate out of the philosophy that there is no accident in the design that I have two ears and only one mouth. My best bet is to try to at minimum use a proportional.
 Hugh: Funny. If people wanted to find out about this Conversations game, what is the URL they can go to?
 Barry: The easiest one is ConversationstheGame.com, and .au, for Australia. It’s ConversationstheGame.com.au.
 Hugh: Conversations is the name of the game. ConversationstheGame.com.
 Barry: dot com dot au.
 Hugh: Oh, dot com dot au. Gotta have them both.
 Barry: Both. Dot com because it’s relating to my business, and dot au because it’s Australia.
 Hugh: Whoa. Put that in the notes so people can go there. We like to keep these interviews under an hour. I think we have given people a huge amount of value today. It’s a physical game. Is there a virtual version of this game?
 Barry: One thing we are looking at, and I went to CEO space. Part of what I’m looking at is to create an online version. I do play online with people like we did here. My goal is to create an online version to connect people around the world so that people can start creating relationships and building friendships and building connections with people around the world. A number of things coming up:
 One is that the Conversations online is a project. If you go to the website, there is some information on that, if people are interested or interested in being a part of it.
 The other one is the Conversations documentaries, where we video full games and allow people to express who they really are. One of the things I recognize is that sometimes when people have been doing a lot of media, they almost have a script for answers, and you don’t get to know the person behind the script. I think people would be really interested to know who some of the celebrities are behind the scripts. Some of these people would be more than open to say, “We have had to work through this ourselves.” Some new thought leaders would say, “We just didn’t get here. We had to come from somewhere. We have had to work through this process.” The documentaries will be there to support that. We will start those in Australia as early as this year. But there is information on both of those on the website.
 There is information for people who want to be facilitators of the game. You can get a game and play it with your family and friends. If you want to play it with larger groups, there are processes I do to help people with that. I am really here to help you in whatever way, for your organization, whatever that is, to get that moving and to get your people talking to each other, to get the people they work with talking to each other, getting their families talking to each other.
 *Sponsor message about Rock Paper Simple*
 Hugh: Russell, before I give it to Barry for his final thought, what would you like to say to Barry or to us?
 Russell: Barry, thank you for the work you have done to create this. I am pretty excited about it. It is something I want to look into. In my conversations with people, the one thing I want to highlight is they have all sorts of brilliance already. I’d love to have people tap into that brilliance because they have a lot of their own answers. I ask a lot of questions. This is a remarkable tool that can help enhance that process. Thank you very much for the work you are doing. I look forward to interacting with you more in the future.
 Barry: Same here, Russell. It’s been great to meet you. My wish for the game. I am going to put my biggest wish here for the game. I know when I created the game, the dream was actually more than the game. Part of the dream, there was a grassroots approach to get the game out there. It wasn’t a Mattel toy you buy in the shop. It is people supporting people supporting people. My wish is that this game is in every family, every family gets the opportunity to play it. Every church has it in the church to help its congregations. Every nonprofit organization has it to support their volunteers and the work they do. I want every corporation to have a game so that we create a new way of doing business with each other. I want schools to have it so that kids know they are safe and can talk to each other as well. That is my real wish.
 I know I can’t do that alone. I know it has to be a grassroots. If there are people out there who want to be part of this and help with that process, we already have 100 facilitators around the world. We haven’t built up America yet. There is an opportunity there to look at that. If people want to support that process in making a difference in the way that we talk to each other. I want to thank you, Russell and Hugh, for the opportunity today to show people just how amazing this game is because I really feel I am a custodian for this game. It came through a dream. I feel that sense of responsibility to nurture it and get it out there to the world.
 Hugh: Barry, you are an inspiration. Thank you so much for sharing with the nonprofit community on The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Barry: Thanks, Hugh.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7ce3d7da-b329-11eb-9f0f-8b54d988b7e5/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Closing Gaps in Communications</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Barry Auchettl (ock-er-tell) is a world leader in communications from the Gold Coast, Australia. Barry is the creator of Conversations: an inspirational game, which transforms ordinary talk into meaningful connections. Having a Masters of Education, he is also trained facilitator of The Virtues Project and The Blue Wren project for the prevention of domestic violence.  He is currently working towards being a Non-Violent Communication facilitator. Barry is an author, international keynote speaker and runs a six month Life Vision Mentoring program, that specializes in clearing sabotages and creating authentic communication. He is also the founder of Eye Power vision improvement services.
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis again for The Nonprofit Exchange. As usual, we have a very intriguing guest on this episode. Barry Auchettl from just south of Brisbane, Australia. It’s called the Gold Coast, Barry.
 Barry Auchettl: It’s called the Gold Coast here.
 Hugh: Oh yeah. Russell is in Denver, and we are having a good time. We are having to accommodate the time because our normal time for Barry would be in the middle of the night. He likes us, but he doesn’t like us that well. We are accommodating. Barry, I put a little dangler out there about Barry Auchettl. We are talking about Conversations today. We will leave that hanging for a minute. Tell people who Barry is.
 Barry: Hi, Hugh. Hi, Russell. Great to meet you guys again. My background is quite varied. I have a varied background. I started off as an accountant for Pricewaterhouse. I worked through the lines of there for a few years and recognized that accounting really wasn’t my thing. It gave me a great background into business and how businesses work. I decided then I was going to go teaching. I had a calling to teach. Ended up teaching for about 15 years. My areas of expertise were accounting, computers, and religious education, of all things. I have a theology degree as well. I have a business degree, a theology degree, and a Masters in Education. It keeps me busy. About 1997, it actually happened, I left teaching in ’97 to start up my own business called Eye Power, which has now been operating for 21 years. Eye Power is about improving people’s physical eyesight, but it also looks at people’s vision of life and how the two are connected. That’s really what I have been working with in a whole variety of fashions since ’97.
 Hugh: Now Conversations is the topic of this interview. Conversations is technically a game, but it’s a game with a purpose. What was the inspiration for developing it? It’s pretty intricate and complex. It’s easy to play, but you can tell there is a lot of psychology, philosophy, thought underneath the principles here. What was your inspiration for creating this tool?
 Barry: It’s really a communication tool for connecting people. That’s what it is, and transforming relationships. The origin of this game is fascinating. As much as I have a teaching background and I was helping groups, by that stage, I was helping and supporting adults. I was recognizing that people weren’t communicating properly. But I had no intention. This was way back in 2001. All I did was I went to bed one night really frustrated because my work wasn’t taking off like I wanted it to. When you are a start-up business sand things are really slow, I was frustrated one night. I went, “What is going on here?” I went to sleep that night, and I literally had a dream about the Conversations game that night. I had all these things I had to get done. In the next three days, I put together the Conversations game. I don’t know how, but all the other things got done as well. I don’t remember doing anything else. I just remember working on doing the very basics of the Conversations game. Within two weeks, Neale Donald Walsch, whose Conversations with Godand founders of Humanity’s Team, a nonprofit organization, played the game and really endorsed it. He said this is fantastic. You have to get this out there.
 Hugh: You need to bring it to America. We’re not talking to each other.
 Barry: Look, I have been really lucky. I have had the fortune of going around the world. By and large, people are the same. One thing I have found around the world is when we take out our politics and religions, underneath all of that, we are wanting to connect to each other and be kind and look after our families and have a good life. It’s almost a basic process. What I found that the game does, and I have played it with people, I have had ten countries play at once on Zoom, it was a fascinating experience to see that we are all- This experience we are all one. We are all having the same issues, concepts, desires, wishes.
 Hugh: It’s fascinating, isn’t it. Give us a couple of examples of here is what was going on, people were not connecting. They did the game. On the other end, what happened?
 Barry: One of the very early ones that came to mind is the first birthday of Conversations, and I decided to have an open house and invite people around. I had one person walk in. She was from a fundamental, strict religious background. She was making sure that there was nothing spooky going on because it would affect her religious beliefs. I said have a seat, have a cuppa, you’ll be all right. I eased her into it. The next person who walked in, I said, “Welcome to the game. Would you like a cup of tea before we start?” She literally looked up to the sky and said, “Yes, my angels told me I could have a cup of tea.”
 Hugh: Oh wow.
 Barry: Wow, this is going to be an interesting game. It was almost two extremes in terms of beliefs that you could get, you know. This is way back. This was back in the mid-2000s, the one-year release when I printed the game in 2005, so it was 2006. I was thinking, Oh my goodness, what is going to happen here? How are these people going to get on? What happened is a miracle, I believe is a miracle. I have played this game around a thousand times. The miracle was not only did they have an argument, because I could see their different viewpoints, but somehow the game drew out of them what was similar, so much so that not only did they not have an argument, but they also exchanged phone numbers and became friends. That showed to me the potential then of what could happen with the game.
 Hugh: Oh my word. I guess people need to come to the game with an open mind and a willingness to talk.
 Barry: That’s right, and just be open. The game is designed in a way that people talk as deep as they are comfortable with. The idea is slightly bend people’s comfort zones, not push them out of their comfort zone. Let’s extend ourselves and see how it goes. A good example is I received two emails once. One was from a grandfather, and one was from his granddaughter. They both sent me a letter to thank me because they had their first ever real conversation with each other. They talked to each other with their family, and the traditional roles, especially as a grandparent, and I guess they talked to each other as two human beings having a conversation.
 Hugh: Barry, that’s the big gap in all of our systems. We are talking to leaders that are running religious institutions, membership organizations, cause-based charities, community foundations. We are talking to people who have a very tight network of people gathered around a particular philosophy. That doesn’t mean they talk to each other. The church in America, the mainline denominations, there is a little bit of revitalization energy going on, but we have lost a lot of members. Part of it is this whole thing is we come and we sit, we don’t interact, and we go home. We don’t talk to each other in meaningful ways. Can we play a little bit of this game with you and Russell?
 Barry: The game normally goes between one and two hours, but we can do a ten-minute demo, which will give you guys and everyone listening a feel of what this is about. Russell hasn’t played it, and I can see he is intrigued already, aren’t you, Russell?
 Hugh: He is intrigued. Russ, you’re ready? You wanting to do this?
 Russell Dennis: I’m ready to rock and roll.
 Barry: Okay. The game itself as an outline, the game itself has three cycles. It has an Aspect cycle, which is an aspect of life. That might be career or health or something like that. Then we look at a Life cycle, which they call the Drama card. That was the easy part for me to do. Then we have the Inspiration cycle, which is to step out of that. That’s really what the game is all about: that whole inspiration of how to move forward. The purpose of the game-
 Just before we play here, I want to take up your point about communication. I believe real authentic communication is a two-way process. One is we need to be able to speak and feel safe speaking. Authentically speak, and know that we won’t be criticized. Part of this game is when someone speaks, no one comments on them. They get to speak without anyone saying that was a good answer or a bad answer or “Why don’t you do this?” or try to fix someone. There is no fixing allowed in this game. In actual fact, we only use “I” statements. That’s part of the game. We only use “I” statements. There is no “You need to do this.” It’s for me, I might choose to meditate more, or something. That’s the first part.
 The second part of the game, and it’s really important, and I used to call it active listening, about really listening to each other. I have shifted that in the last six months because I have done some work with nonviolent communication and empathic communication. I really believe now it’s about empathic listening. It’s not just listening to the words; it’s listening to what is behind the words. When we can really do that and tune in and get a feel for what the person is about and have some empathy for the person and have some empathy for yourself, you can then relate what is being said to yourself. That part, the game creates that.
 The final part that I can’t create but the game somehow magically does is to create an openness and a connection with all those who play. Because somehow by having people have a physical card in their game gives them position to open up. It just seems to do that. When we do that, we recognize we are similar.
 That is a real introduction. I am going to start the game with us.
 Hugh: Drumroll please.
 Barry: Okay. So we are going to get through each cycle and keep it really short. Our answers are down to a minute to allow a ten-minute idea we suggested. The first part of the cycle is we choose an aspect. Hugh, because you have played before, I am going to choose an aspect for you. These are so-called random. I don’t believe in random. The aspect I have for you is “Fame and Glory.”
 Hugh: Fame and glory.
 Barry: I will give you one of the doc points. And the doc point here is “See yourself as equal to others.”
 Hugh: Okay.
 Barry: I want you to comment on what fame and glory means for you, in context of nonprofit organizations.
 Hugh: In seeing myself as equal to others. Was that the other part?
 Barry: Yes. That was the point that came up for you, yes.
 Hugh: Part of how I perceive that is that I like the statement “Nobody is perfect, but parts of me are excellent.” There is parts of me that are really good. I focus on those. I just take it in stride. Other people value it and say, “Ooh, that’s really good.” It’s part of who I am. It’s my way of giving to other people. Fame and glory for me is just focusing on what I do really well and maximizing that gift, that space that I give to others.
 Barry: Okay, thank you. Everyone playing can relate to that. I am nodding, and I can see Russell nodding as well. I’m sure this will also relate to all the people listening. It’s interesting how this game, it’s for one person but can expand to everyone. That’s the amazing part.
 Russell, I have a card for you. Your card is “Rest and Relaxation.” And the doc point, there are four doc points with each of these cards to help people with their answer. I am going to give you one of them. The one I want you to comment on is “Allow the soul time to recuperate.”
 Russell: Rest and relaxation. I am a firm believer that for me, it’s important to raise my level of consciousness, whatever I am facing. That is what fuels me and gives me energy to go out and try to make a difference in the world. In order to give, I believe we live in a reciprocal universe. I have to recharge my batteries from time to time so that I am able to serve at a high level and give to other people. For me, what’s restful and relaxing is my meditation practice that I do daily. It’s a chance for me to shut down, notice what’s going on within me, and look at my day. Just not attach myself to anything, whether it’s good or bad. But just to notice where I’m at. And harvest a supreme gratitude so that I can continue to serve and recharge. Part of that rest and relaxation is turning the squirrel cage off and sensing that connection to the universe.
 Barry: That’s wonderful. Thanks, Russell. Thanks for coming out and sharing that with us. First game. You jumped into it. That’s awesome. I am amazed at how close the answers can be as we get these.
 I am going to choose mine to round the first cycle off. The card I have is “Humor.” That’s a good one here. I am going to read the very first point, “It’s only a game.” I think it’s a really good one for me. Sometimes I can take myself so seriously. Playing this Conversations game, it’s a very serious game. We are going to go deep, and we better not smile because it’s serious. I think it’s really important for me always to remember to bring humor. When I educate people, when I do my training, I do a six-month mentoring training around the world, I have to use humor as part of that because otherwise I get bored. I think it’s a great way. When people laugh, we learn. I have a big belief that we can go deep and laugh at the same time. It’s not a choice.
 Really interesting three cards. We have “Fame and Glory, “ “Rest and Relaxation,” and “Humor” coming up for the three of us. Really interesting combinations.
 That’s the first cycle. People go around. If we have time at the end, which we won’t do today, we can look at where the connections are between each of those aspects. It’s quite interesting in itself
 Hugh: How many people can do this at one time?
 Barry: The game has sixteen aspects. I normally run small groups between two and 32 people because 32, you pair people up and do things like that. I have actually played with 300 people at a conference, where they had me play with the entire audience. It is possible to play the game with large groups. You just do it differently. It’s part of the facilitation process I’ve done with this, and with an educational background, I have been able to create a variety of ways of playing the game. It was used in a 300-seat auditorium in New Zealand, and that got me to be the entertainment at halftime to connect people.
 Hugh: Sweet.
 Barry: Let’s continue. We will go into our Life cycle. We usually call this the Drama cycle. Each would get a turn by the way if it’s a small group. If it’s a large group, we obviously couldn’t. We are going to choose one card as an example. Russell, you are choosing the card for us. All you need to do is I will read the card out, then you say what does it mean for you, and what does it mean in terms of your aspect? I will get you to invite only one of us to speak. One of the things you will learn in this game is you don’t always have to speak about everything all the time. For some people, that’s a good learning process. Oh, I don’t have to say something. I will let you choose whether Hugh talks about fame and glory with this card or if I talk about humor from that viewpoint. But what I want you to do is say what this card means to you and what it means in terms of rest and relaxation. That’s what you need to do at this point. You don’t have to agree with the card; you can disagree. These aren’t stone tablets; you can disagree with them. The card says, “I find it difficult to love myself.”
 Russell: What that means to me is that person doesn’t really recognize how exceptional they are. Hugh, what does that card mean to you?
 Hugh: I don’t have difficulty with that. My standards are pretty low. I accept myself. I criticize myself heavily, but judging my performance and loving myself, I have been able to think of in different ways. Part of fame and glory, and Barry, I get to conduct an orchestra this season, and that is very public, and in my community, that is part of fame and glory. I am up there, and when you are in front of everybody, they will judge you. I have gotten to a place where I do what I do, and celebrate it because I know somebody will like it. That means being comfortable in loving myself. It’s a journey of saying, I am going to let go of the flaws and love myself just how I am. That is part of personal empowerment for me.
 Barry: Awesome, thank you. Russell, since it was your card, did you want to make any other comments before we move on?
 Russell: I think that’s an interesting card. A lot of people may or may not choose to look at that. It’s something that’s important to look at as far as rules surrounding how we set living for ourselves. I love this. This is really deep. The way to solve things is to look within myself and start there.
 Barry: One thing we will do in a game is I would probably call you in a real game to say “I” statements than “we.” For me, this means… It’s a key concept in this game to keep coming back to self. The rest of us go, “Oh yeah, I can relate to that as well.” My own personal journey, I am a little bit stubborn. When anyone tells me what to do, I tend to do the opposite.
 Russell:People don’t want to be told what’s wrong.
 Barry: Like we said, we all need to meditate. Oh yeah, sure. When you say, “I meditate every day,” I can relate to that, or maybe I need to do that, whatever it is. It gives people permission to come on board without the request or the demand to come on board. That’s an important process.
 We are going to keep this fairly quick and move to the Inspiration cycle. Russell, I will start with you again. Inspiration is about maybe one sentence about this, let’s keep this fairly short. This is moving it up toward a higher level. The Life card shows a drama aspect, and this takes us to another place. Your card says, “What would happen if everyone did this?”
 Russell: I believe that if everybody did this that there would be an increase in the level of collective consciousness for all the people who participate.
 Barry: Awesome, thank you. My card says, “Give to another whatever you choose to have for yourself.” It’s really interesting because I have been doing a mentoring program. As I support other people in stepping up, and it is about raising their consciousness as well, I work in raising consciousness and frequency as I am helping them to raise their consciousness and frequency, mine increases as well. It comes back to me. I think that’s a great card for me.
 Hugh, your card is, interesting one, “Affirmations work better when they are about something that is already true for you.”
 Hugh: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. At 72 years old, I’m finding that anything I do, there’s still room for growth. Working on the skills I have my top skills makes them better. The ones that are down the ladder a little bit, I do not need to mess with those. I want to focus on affirming who I am and what I do. Focusing what I am makes it better, and that my top skills, it makes them continue to grow.
 Barry: Awesome, thank you. That is a quick version. That was about 15 minutes. We could have discussed that further with each other, particularly cycle two. That gives us a feel of what this is about. Before we continue the interview, I want to complete the game properly. Hugh, could you say what you personally got out of the game, in one sentence, for yourself? What did you find out about yourself from this game?
 Hugh: Absolutely. It made me think about myself in ways that I would not normally do. I felt a little vulnerable, but it felt safe.
 Barry: Great, thank you. Russell?
 Russell: I love this game. I think it’s wonderful. The thing I notice is I happen to be very careful because of the circles I run around in. I run into a lot of like-minded people. My language in general is inclusive. But I have to be very careful to come from the place of talking from within my own experience so that I’m not putting anybody on the spot but being more inviting for them to relate in the way that is comfortable for them.
 Barry: Thank you. That’s a wonderful insight. For me, I have played this game over a thousand times, and I don’t get bored. I always learn something about myself. This is a workshop in a box. You get to play a workshop every time. The key for me is what was my inspiration card was, as a reminder that I am of service to others. That comes back to me. I am recognizing my life is amazing at the moment. I am probably the happiest I’ve ever been in my life, and I am serving people more than I ever have. The two are hand in hand, so that’s pretty cool.
 That’s the nutshell of the game. Congratulations, Russell, on completing your first demo. Hugh, you have played this a number of times now.
 Hugh: It’s always different, Barry. It seems to always be different for me. You go to a museum, and you se a great work of art. It’s different every time I look at it. There is more depth to it.
 Barry: It’s true for me. I do get bored pretty easily in life. I have done a whole lot of different things. This is something I do not know a game that I play where I was bored because you always are learning. I can play a whole game and just listen to people talk. You go, Wow. It’s fascinating to not to have to be the speaker and let people talk about what is happening and how it relates to me. I can relate to both of what you said, Hugh and Russell, in terms of my own life.
 Hugh: I’m sorry, Russ. Go ahead.
 Russell: The one aspect of this is it never gets old because every time you sit down with it, you’re in a different place. I think the dynamics of solving very real human problems requires me, there I go again, lesson learned, to look at where I’m at and to constantly evaluate how I can do that and how I communicate with other people. It’s all dynamic.
 Barry: Where I started with that was with my own family. That was the first place I played the game. It really connected my own family. I can remember my children were already teenagers at the time. The older boys were quite talented in all sorts of things, even as teenagers, they are setting up international businesses. That entrepreneurial skill. My daughter said, “How can I be like you guys?” or something like that. After the game, they turned to her and said how amazing they thought she was and the life she has ahead of her and her talents and gifts. It opened up on a heart base to each other. My daughter is now having an engagement party here in Australia next month, and my two boys are flying in from America and England just to be at her engagement party, just to support her. It’s really connected them together for life.
 Hugh: What I have experienced that is different than normal interactions is that being a musician, I have worked on my listening ability my whole life. We need to be very intentional about listening. Your pivot from active listening to empathetic listening, I believe I heard the word, is there is a willingness to understand the intent behind this. It’s a whole different paradigm. Where has that been very helpful in the games where people have been at odds? Where has that perspective been helpful?
 Barry: I think it’s helpful when we recognize that we have different language. Sometimes we can get caught up on the words. I know for corporate in some organizations, one of the aspects is “unconditional love.” Sometimes I have a corporate edition, which calls it “unconditional acceptance.” I recognize that sometimes it’s just our language that holds us back in the words that we use. If we can go behind the words and get a feeling for what is going on, we are not going to get caught in the language. When we use words, especially words that can have a charge, when we talk about love or God or universe or spirit, people have different ways of expressing that. Just allowing and accepting of that that ultimately we are referring to the same thing. The energy behind it is what’s important.
 Hugh: Nonprofits and religious institutions attract people around a cause. We have passion to the cause. It doesn’t mean that we know how to interact around how we work together. I think there is a big gap. We spend time texting, and we spend time on the cell phone, and emailing, and doing things on our computer, and posting on social media. We are not really having a conversation where we are listening and where we are using I statements. This takes us out of all those routines and has a face-to-face relationship. I see in nonprofits, there is a lot of important work for us to do. Government shouldn’t be doing some of the stuff they are trying to do. Nonprofits can come in and have a neutral place and do some healing and some philanthropic work that we are cut out to do. That would necessitate us being, I call it a new architecture of engagement. How do we show up as this fine-tuned music ensemble? We are in there working together. There is a special place for nonprofits in this communication area. How do you see it playing there?
 Barry: Can I make a comment about that? I actually used to work for a project called Living for Harmony in Australia. It was about bringing all the different cultures together and recognizing how we can get on together than being separate. That was a project about bringing people from the straight tribes to politicians together and being open together and trying to be honest with each other. The game is part of that process of connecting people, of having a deeper conversation. It’s been played in church groups, in nonprofit groups, in corporations, in schools, in universities. It’s whenever we need to have a greater conversation, and I believe especially wen we are talking about nonprofits. A lot of people in nonprofits come in and volunteer their time because there is a higher purpose to why they are doing it. In return, sometimes, all they want to do is be heard. They want to have a voice and hear that what you’re doing matters and is important to us. We’re hearing you, we’re listening to you, and you are important.
 Hugh: Russell, what are you thinking there?
 Russell: I think that is critical: being able to get support for the mission in nonprofits because you have so many different audiences that you are talking to. Some of them are internal. Your staff, your board, your volunteers/servant leaders, as we like to call them. There is the community you work in. The various people who support you, whether it’s through corporate sponsorship or grant people or individual donors. It’s important to talk to people in terms that are meaningful to them without losing who you are. Having the good conversation is critical to that. It’s difficult to find that language where it works for everyone so that there is no misunderstanding. It’s what it’s all about. That’s how you bring people into the fold, or the way that I feel you bring people into the fold is that you connect with them at a deep level so that you are working toward the same things. You have that deep understanding. And it’s the ability to put what needs to be done ahead of my own individual goals for the greater good. It’s important to have good conversations around how you do that.
 Barry: Definitely. Well spoken.
 Hugh: The whole shift in paradigm, Barry, it takes us out of feeling like we have to have the answer to something to the place where we are exploring what the answers could be. One of the religious writers I read is Richard Rohr. He is very eloquent in talking about non-dual thinking. We want it to be good or bad, left or right, up or down, debit or credit. There is a third way, a different way, multiple different ways. Instead of being dualistic, let’s talk about the other options. Part of this, do you experience when people are playing the game, that there are times of silence, where there is some profound things going on without words?
 Barry: It’s interesting because the realization. I will give you two examples of this. Part of the game, when we say don’t interrupt people, is to allow people an opportunity to sit with the card they pull for a while. Sometimes it can have a profound effect. Part of the magic of the game is not only do they get a card, but in the game, we seem to get the exact cards that we need on the day. It seems to happen that way. We have had two cases.
 One case I remember, a guy got “Personal Growth and Spirituality.” It was a group of about 20 people. He threw the card on the ground and said, “I don’t want to play.” It was really good because nobody in the group reacted. They just looked at me, like what are you going to do. I said, “It’s your choice. We won’t force you to do anything here. Do what you feel comfortable with.” But he said, “I want to stay.” I said, “All right.” I thought about it. It was a choice: What are you going to do? You can stay. It felt like he needed to stay. He stayed.
 We got about halfway through, and we had a break. We started playing the second half of the game, and I said, “Any questions?” He put his hand up and said, “Barry, can I play again?” And I said, “Sure. Your card is on the ground, exactly where you left it. You can go pick it up.” Spoken like a true teacher. He went and picked the card up, and I said, “Who wants to go next?” His hand went straight back up again, and he wanted to go next. He pulled a card, and what came up was that he had a rebirth in his spiritual life and walked away from it. This night was the time that he came back to it. He recognized that he couldn’t run away from it anymore. It was an amazing process. It was in the silence of no one trying to fix him and allowing him to make that choice to return to the game, to return to his own spiritual life that created a change in him. That was quite remarkable.
 Since I did get humor, I had another one. A lady got “Food.” She almost walked out. She got food. “I shouldn’t get food. I should have gotten personal growth and spirituality or unconditional love. I got food. I should have gotten something more important than that. I don’t want to play.” I said, “Look, that’s fine.” Why do people keep asking permission? She got up to leave. She got to the door. At the door, she turned around and looked at the group. The light bulb moment. She said, “Maybe it’s because I had an operation on my stomach last month.” The entire group started laughing, like the connection was so strong. It made her laugh to recognize that’s what was important to her. Of all the aspects, food has the biggest charge for people because how we relate to food or how we don’t relate to food and use it as an emotional crutch and all sorts of things.
 Those scenarios show me the power is what’s behind the game more than what I do or even more than what the game does. It’s almost like its own energy that runs with it.
 Hugh: There is a shift for me. We are in a high performance culture, no matter where you live. We are expected to do things. We can shift from being human doings to human beings and live in the moment. Be in touch with parts of us that we haven’t been in touch with in a while.
 Barry: Totally. My greatest gift, and I am grateful, is the fact I get to do this all the time. I get to open up and see and witness people opening up. The two biggest groups I get to witness is one, the person who is really quiet and doesn’t say anything. We normally get a card and say, “I don’t normally speak, and I don’t know what to say. If I had to say something, it would be this wisdom.” Then the other one is the person, you might know those people as well, are the ones who talk all the time. They come up to me at the end and say, “It was great that I didn’t have to have an answer for everything. I learned that I can actually be quiet,” because part of their thinking process is they have to have an answer for everything that is said.
 Hugh: Isn’t that funny? We have imposed that on ourselves. We have to fill every minute with talking, and we have to have answers for everything. I keep seeing celebrities being interviewed, and the interviewer wants to trick them and ask these hard questions. They stumble with their answers. I think, Why do you try to answer? Just say next question. I am not answering that. Oh my
 Russell: I have been trying for myself to operate out of the philosophy that there is no accident in the design that I have two ears and only one mouth. My best bet is to try to at minimum use a proportional.
 Hugh: Funny. If people wanted to find out about this Conversations game, what is the URL they can go to?
 Barry: The easiest one is ConversationstheGame.com, and .au, for Australia. It’s ConversationstheGame.com.au.
 Hugh: Conversations is the name of the game. ConversationstheGame.com.
 Barry: dot com dot au.
 Hugh: Oh, dot com dot au. Gotta have them both.
 Barry: Both. Dot com because it’s relating to my business, and dot au because it’s Australia.
 Hugh: Whoa. Put that in the notes so people can go there. We like to keep these interviews under an hour. I think we have given people a huge amount of value today. It’s a physical game. Is there a virtual version of this game?
 Barry: One thing we are looking at, and I went to CEO space. Part of what I’m looking at is to create an online version. I do play online with people like we did here. My goal is to create an online version to connect people around the world so that people can start creating relationships and building friendships and building connections with people around the world. A number of things coming up:
 One is that the Conversations online is a project. If you go to the website, there is some information on that, if people are interested or interested in being a part of it.
 The other one is the Conversations documentaries, where we video full games and allow people to express who they really are. One of the things I recognize is that sometimes when people have been doing a lot of media, they almost have a script for answers, and you don’t get to know the person behind the script. I think people would be really interested to know who some of the celebrities are behind the scripts. Some of these people would be more than open to say, “We have had to work through this ourselves.” Some new thought leaders would say, “We just didn’t get here. We had to come from somewhere. We have had to work through this process.” The documentaries will be there to support that. We will start those in Australia as early as this year. But there is information on both of those on the website.
 There is information for people who want to be facilitators of the game. You can get a game and play it with your family and friends. If you want to play it with larger groups, there are processes I do to help people with that. I am really here to help you in whatever way, for your organization, whatever that is, to get that moving and to get your people talking to each other, to get the people they work with talking to each other, getting their families talking to each other.
 *Sponsor message about Rock Paper Simple*
 Hugh: Russell, before I give it to Barry for his final thought, what would you like to say to Barry or to us?
 Russell: Barry, thank you for the work you have done to create this. I am pretty excited about it. It is something I want to look into. In my conversations with people, the one thing I want to highlight is they have all sorts of brilliance already. I’d love to have people tap into that brilliance because they have a lot of their own answers. I ask a lot of questions. This is a remarkable tool that can help enhance that process. Thank you very much for the work you are doing. I look forward to interacting with you more in the future.
 Barry: Same here, Russell. It’s been great to meet you. My wish for the game. I am going to put my biggest wish here for the game. I know when I created the game, the dream was actually more than the game. Part of the dream, there was a grassroots approach to get the game out there. It wasn’t a Mattel toy you buy in the shop. It is people supporting people supporting people. My wish is that this game is in every family, every family gets the opportunity to play it. Every church has it in the church to help its congregations. Every nonprofit organization has it to support their volunteers and the work they do. I want every corporation to have a game so that we create a new way of doing business with each other. I want schools to have it so that kids know they are safe and can talk to each other as well. That is my real wish.
 I know I can’t do that alone. I know it has to be a grassroots. If there are people out there who want to be part of this and help with that process, we already have 100 facilitators around the world. We haven’t built up America yet. There is an opportunity there to look at that. If people want to support that process in making a difference in the way that we talk to each other. I want to thank you, Russell and Hugh, for the opportunity today to show people just how amazing this game is because I really feel I am a custodian for this game. It came through a dream. I feel that sense of responsibility to nurture it and get it out there to the world.
 Hugh: Barry, you are an inspiration. Thank you so much for sharing with the nonprofit community on The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Barry: Thanks, Hugh.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Barry Auchettl</strong> (ock-er-tell) is a world leader in communications from the Gold Coast, Australia. Barry is the creator of <em>Conversations: an inspirational game</em>, which transforms ordinary talk into meaningful connections. Having a Masters of Education, he is also trained facilitator of The Virtues Project and The Blue Wren project for the prevention of domestic violence.  He is currently working towards being a Non-Violent Communication facilitator. Barry is an author, international keynote speaker and runs a six month Life Vision Mentoring program, that specializes in clearing sabotages and creating authentic communication. He is also the founder of Eye Power vision improvement services.</p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis again for <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> As usual, we have a very intriguing guest on this episode. Barry Auchettl from just south of Brisbane, Australia. It’s called the Gold Coast, Barry.</p> <p><strong>Barry Auchettl:</strong> It’s called the Gold Coast here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh yeah. Russell is in Denver, and we are having a good time. We are having to accommodate the time because our normal time for Barry would be in the middle of the night. He likes us, but he doesn’t like us that well. We are accommodating. Barry, I put a little dangler out there about Barry Auchettl. We are talking about Conversations today. We will leave that hanging for a minute. Tell people who Barry is.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Hi, Hugh. Hi, Russell. Great to meet you guys again. My background is quite varied. I have a varied background. I started off as an accountant for Pricewaterhouse. I worked through the lines of there for a few years and recognized that accounting really wasn’t my thing. It gave me a great background into business and how businesses work. I decided then I was going to go teaching. I had a calling to teach. Ended up teaching for about 15 years. My areas of expertise were accounting, computers, and religious education, of all things. I have a theology degree as well. I have a business degree, a theology degree, and a Masters in Education. It keeps me busy. About 1997, it actually happened, I left teaching in ’97 to start up my own business called Eye Power, which has now been operating for 21 years. Eye Power is about improving people’s physical eyesight, but it also looks at people’s vision of life and how the two are connected. That’s really what I have been working with in a whole variety of fashions since ’97.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Now Conversations is the topic of this interview. Conversations is technically a game, but it’s a game with a purpose. What was the inspiration for developing it? It’s pretty intricate and complex. It’s easy to play, but you can tell there is a lot of psychology, philosophy, thought underneath the principles here. What was your inspiration for creating this tool?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> It’s really a communication tool for connecting people. That’s what it is, and transforming relationships. The origin of this game is fascinating. As much as I have a teaching background and I was helping groups, by that stage, I was helping and supporting adults. I was recognizing that people weren’t communicating properly. But I had no intention. This was way back in 2001. All I did was I went to bed one night really frustrated because my work wasn’t taking off like I wanted it to. When you are a start-up business sand things are really slow, I was frustrated one night. I went, “What is going on here?” I went to sleep that night, and I literally had a dream about the Conversations game that night. I had all these things I had to get done. In the next three days, I put together the Conversations game. I don’t know how, but all the other things got done as well. I don’t remember doing anything else. I just remember working on doing the very basics of the Conversations game. Within two weeks, Neale Donald Walsch, whose <em>Conversations with God</em>and founders of Humanity’s Team, a nonprofit organization, played the game and really endorsed it. He said this is fantastic. You have to get this out there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You need to bring it to America. We’re not talking to each other.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Look, I have been really lucky. I have had the fortune of going around the world. By and large, people are the same. One thing I have found around the world is when we take out our politics and religions, underneath all of that, we are wanting to connect to each other and be kind and look after our families and have a good life. It’s almost a basic process. What I found that the game does, and I have played it with people, I have had ten countries play at once on Zoom, it was a fascinating experience to see that we are all- This experience we are all one. We are all having the same issues, concepts, desires, wishes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s fascinating, isn’t it. Give us a couple of examples of here is what was going on, people were not connecting. They did the game. On the other end, what happened?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> One of the very early ones that came to mind is the first birthday of Conversations, and I decided to have an open house and invite people around. I had one person walk in. She was from a fundamental, strict religious background. She was making sure that there was nothing spooky going on because it would affect her religious beliefs. I said have a seat, have a cuppa, you’ll be all right. I eased her into it. The next person who walked in, I said, “Welcome to the game. Would you like a cup of tea before we start?” She literally looked up to the sky and said, “Yes, my angels told me I could have a cup of tea.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh wow.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Wow, this is going to be an interesting game. It was almost two extremes in terms of beliefs that you could get, you know. This is way back. This was back in the mid-2000s, the one-year release when I printed the game in 2005, so it was 2006. I was thinking, Oh my goodness, what is going to happen here? How are these people going to get on? What happened is a miracle, I believe is a miracle. I have played this game around a thousand times. The miracle was not only did they have an argument, because I could see their different viewpoints, but somehow the game drew out of them what was similar, so much so that not only did they not have an argument, but they also exchanged phone numbers and became friends. That showed to me the potential then of what could happen with the game.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my word. I guess people need to come to the game with an open mind and a willingness to talk.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> That’s right, and just be open. The game is designed in a way that people talk as deep as they are comfortable with. The idea is slightly bend people’s comfort zones, not push them out of their comfort zone. Let’s extend ourselves and see how it goes. A good example is I received two emails once. One was from a grandfather, and one was from his granddaughter. They both sent me a letter to thank me because they had their first ever real conversation with each other. They talked to each other with their family, and the traditional roles, especially as a grandparent, and I guess they talked to each other as two human beings having a conversation.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Barry, that’s the big gap in all of our systems. We are talking to leaders that are running religious institutions, membership organizations, cause-based charities, community foundations. We are talking to people who have a very tight network of people gathered around a particular philosophy. That doesn’t mean they talk to each other. The church in America, the mainline denominations, there is a little bit of revitalization energy going on, but we have lost a lot of members. Part of it is this whole thing is we come and we sit, we don’t interact, and we go home. We don’t talk to each other in meaningful ways. Can we play a little bit of this game with you and Russell?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> The game normally goes between one and two hours, but we can do a ten-minute demo, which will give you guys and everyone listening a feel of what this is about. Russell hasn’t played it, and I can see he is intrigued already, aren’t you, Russell?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> He is intrigued. Russ, you’re ready? You wanting to do this?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> I’m ready to rock and roll.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Okay. The game itself as an outline, the game itself has three cycles. It has an Aspect cycle, which is an aspect of life. That might be career or health or something like that. Then we look at a Life cycle, which they call the Drama card. That was the easy part for me to do. Then we have the Inspiration cycle, which is to step out of that. That’s really what the game is all about: that whole inspiration of how to move forward. The purpose of the game-</p> <p>Just before we play here, I want to take up your point about communication. I believe real authentic communication is a two-way process. One is we need to be able to speak and feel safe speaking. Authentically speak, and know that we won’t be criticized. Part of this game is when someone speaks, no one comments on them. They get to speak without anyone saying that was a good answer or a bad answer or “Why don’t you do this?” or try to fix someone. There is no fixing allowed in this game. In actual fact, we only use “I” statements. That’s part of the game. We only use “I” statements. There is no “You need to do this.” It’s for me, I might choose to meditate more, or something. That’s the first part.</p> <p>The second part of the game, and it’s really important, and I used to call it active listening, about really listening to each other. I have shifted that in the last six months because I have done some work with nonviolent communication and empathic communication. I really believe now it’s about empathic listening. It’s not just listening to the words; it’s listening to what is behind the words. When we can really do that and tune in and get a feel for what the person is about and have some empathy for the person and have some empathy for yourself, you can then relate what is being said to yourself. That part, the game creates that.</p> <p>The final part that I can’t create but the game somehow magically does is to create an openness and a connection with all those who play. Because somehow by having people have a physical card in their game gives them position to open up. It just seems to do that. When we do that, we recognize we are similar.</p> <p>That is a real introduction. I am going to start the game with us.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Drumroll please.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Okay. So we are going to get through each cycle and keep it really short. Our answers are down to a minute to allow a ten-minute idea we suggested. The first part of the cycle is we choose an aspect. Hugh, because you have played before, I am going to choose an aspect for you. These are so-called random. I don’t believe in random. The aspect I have for you is “Fame and Glory.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Fame and glory.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> I will give you one of the doc points. And the doc point here is “See yourself as equal to others.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Okay.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> I want you to comment on what fame and glory means for you, in context of nonprofit organizations.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> In seeing myself as equal to others. Was that the other part?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Yes. That was the point that came up for you, yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Part of how I perceive that is that I like the statement “Nobody is perfect, but parts of me are excellent.” There is parts of me that are really good. I focus on those. I just take it in stride. Other people value it and say, “Ooh, that’s really good.” It’s part of who I am. It’s my way of giving to other people. Fame and glory for me is just focusing on what I do really well and maximizing that gift, that space that I give to others.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Okay, thank you. Everyone playing can relate to that. I am nodding, and I can see Russell nodding as well. I’m sure this will also relate to all the people listening. It’s interesting how this game, it’s for one person but can expand to everyone. That’s the amazing part.</p> <p>Russell, I have a card for you. Your card is “Rest and Relaxation.” And the doc point, there are four doc points with each of these cards to help people with their answer. I am going to give you one of them. The one I want you to comment on is “Allow the soul time to recuperate.”</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Rest and relaxation. I am a firm believer that for me, it’s important to raise my level of consciousness, whatever I am facing. That is what fuels me and gives me energy to go out and try to make a difference in the world. In order to give, I believe we live in a reciprocal universe. I have to recharge my batteries from time to time so that I am able to serve at a high level and give to other people. For me, what’s restful and relaxing is my meditation practice that I do daily. It’s a chance for me to shut down, notice what’s going on within me, and look at my day. Just not attach myself to anything, whether it’s good or bad. But just to notice where I’m at. And harvest a supreme gratitude so that I can continue to serve and recharge. Part of that rest and relaxation is turning the squirrel cage off and sensing that connection to the universe.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> That’s wonderful. Thanks, Russell. Thanks for coming out and sharing that with us. First game. You jumped into it. That’s awesome. I am amazed at how close the answers can be as we get these.</p> <p>I am going to choose mine to round the first cycle off. The card I have is “Humor.” That’s a good one here. I am going to read the very first point, “It’s only a game.” I think it’s a really good one for me. Sometimes I can take myself so seriously. Playing this Conversations game, it’s a very serious game. We are going to go deep, and we better not smile because it’s serious. I think it’s really important for me always to remember to bring humor. When I educate people, when I do my training, I do a six-month mentoring training around the world, I have to use humor as part of that because otherwise I get bored. I think it’s a great way. When people laugh, we learn. I have a big belief that we can go deep and laugh at the same time. It’s not a choice.</p> <p>Really interesting three cards. We have “Fame and Glory, “ “Rest and Relaxation,” and “Humor” coming up for the three of us. Really interesting combinations.</p> <p>That’s the first cycle. People go around. If we have time at the end, which we won’t do today, we can look at where the connections are between each of those aspects. It’s quite interesting in itself</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> How many people can do this at one time?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> The game has sixteen aspects. I normally run small groups between two and 32 people because 32, you pair people up and do things like that. I have actually played with 300 people at a conference, where they had me play with the entire audience. It is possible to play the game with large groups. You just do it differently. It’s part of the facilitation process I’ve done with this, and with an educational background, I have been able to create a variety of ways of playing the game. It was used in a 300-seat auditorium in New Zealand, and that got me to be the entertainment at halftime to connect people.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Sweet.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Let’s continue. We will go into our Life cycle. We usually call this the Drama cycle. Each would get a turn by the way if it’s a small group. If it’s a large group, we obviously couldn’t. We are going to choose one card as an example. Russell, you are choosing the card for us. All you need to do is I will read the card out, then you say what does it mean for you, and what does it mean in terms of your aspect? I will get you to invite only one of us to speak. One of the things you will learn in this game is you don’t always have to speak about everything all the time. For some people, that’s a good learning process. Oh, I don’t have to say something. I will let you choose whether Hugh talks about fame and glory with this card or if I talk about humor from that viewpoint. But what I want you to do is say what this card means to you and what it means in terms of rest and relaxation. That’s what you need to do at this point. You don’t have to agree with the card; you can disagree. These aren’t stone tablets; you can disagree with them. The card says, “I find it difficult to love myself.”</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What that means to me is that person doesn’t really recognize how exceptional they are. Hugh, what does that card mean to you?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I don’t have difficulty with that. My standards are pretty low. I accept myself. I criticize myself heavily, but judging my performance and loving myself, I have been able to think of in different ways. Part of fame and glory, and Barry, I get to conduct an orchestra this season, and that is very public, and in my community, that is part of fame and glory. I am up there, and when you are in front of everybody, they will judge you. I have gotten to a place where I do what I do, and celebrate it because I know somebody will like it. That means being comfortable in loving myself. It’s a journey of saying, I am going to let go of the flaws and love myself just how I am. That is part of personal empowerment for me.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Awesome, thank you. Russell, since it was your card, did you want to make any other comments before we move on?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think that’s an interesting card. A lot of people may or may not choose to look at that. It’s something that’s important to look at as far as rules surrounding how we set living for ourselves. I love this. This is really deep. The way to solve things is to look within myself and start there.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> One thing we will do in a game is I would probably call you in a real game to say “I” statements than “we.” For me, this means… It’s a key concept in this game to keep coming back to self. The rest of us go, “Oh yeah, I can relate to that as well.” My own personal journey, I am a little bit stubborn. When anyone tells me what to do, I tend to do the opposite.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>People don’t want to be told what’s wrong.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Like we said, we all need to meditate. Oh yeah, sure. When you say, “I meditate every day,” I can relate to that, or maybe I need to do that, whatever it is. It gives people permission to come on board without the request or the demand to come on board. That’s an important process.</p> <p>We are going to keep this fairly quick and move to the Inspiration cycle. Russell, I will start with you again. Inspiration is about maybe one sentence about this, let’s keep this fairly short. This is moving it up toward a higher level. The Life card shows a drama aspect, and this takes us to another place. Your card says, “What would happen if everyone did this?”</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I believe that if everybody did this that there would be an increase in the level of collective consciousness for all the people who participate.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Awesome, thank you. My card says, “Give to another whatever you choose to have for yourself.” It’s really interesting because I have been doing a mentoring program. As I support other people in stepping up, and it is about raising their consciousness as well, I work in raising consciousness and frequency as I am helping them to raise their consciousness and frequency, mine increases as well. It comes back to me. I think that’s a great card for me.</p> <p>Hugh, your card is, interesting one, “Affirmations work better when they are about something that is already true for you.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. At 72 years old, I’m finding that anything I do, there’s still room for growth. Working on the skills I have my top skills makes them better. The ones that are down the ladder a little bit, I do not need to mess with those. I want to focus on affirming who I am and what I do. Focusing what I am makes it better, and that my top skills, it makes them continue to grow.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Awesome, thank you. That is a quick version. That was about 15 minutes. We could have discussed that further with each other, particularly cycle two. That gives us a feel of what this is about. Before we continue the interview, I want to complete the game properly. Hugh, could you say what you personally got out of the game, in one sentence, for yourself? What did you find out about yourself from this game?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. It made me think about myself in ways that I would not normally do. I felt a little vulnerable, but it felt safe.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Great, thank you. Russell?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I love this game. I think it’s wonderful. The thing I notice is I happen to be very careful because of the circles I run around in. I run into a lot of like-minded people. My language in general is inclusive. But I have to be very careful to come from the place of talking from within my own experience so that I’m not putting anybody on the spot but being more inviting for them to relate in the way that is comfortable for them.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Thank you. That’s a wonderful insight. For me, I have played this game over a thousand times, and I don’t get bored. I always learn something about myself. This is a workshop in a box. You get to play a workshop every time. The key for me is what was my inspiration card was, as a reminder that I am of service to others. That comes back to me. I am recognizing my life is amazing at the moment. I am probably the happiest I’ve ever been in my life, and I am serving people more than I ever have. The two are hand in hand, so that’s pretty cool.</p> <p>That’s the nutshell of the game. Congratulations, Russell, on completing your first demo. Hugh, you have played this a number of times now.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s always different, Barry. It seems to always be different for me. You go to a museum, and you se a great work of art. It’s different every time I look at it. There is more depth to it.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> It’s true for me. I do get bored pretty easily in life. I have done a whole lot of different things. This is something I do not know a game that I play where I was bored because you always are learning. I can play a whole game and just listen to people talk. You go, Wow. It’s fascinating to not to have to be the speaker and let people talk about what is happening and how it relates to me. I can relate to both of what you said, Hugh and Russell, in terms of my own life.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m sorry, Russ. Go ahead.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The one aspect of this is it never gets old because every time you sit down with it, you’re in a different place. I think the dynamics of solving very real human problems requires me, there I go again, lesson learned, to look at where I’m at and to constantly evaluate how I can do that and how I communicate with other people. It’s all dynamic.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Where I started with that was with my own family. That was the first place I played the game. It really connected my own family. I can remember my children were already teenagers at the time. The older boys were quite talented in all sorts of things, even as teenagers, they are setting up international businesses. That entrepreneurial skill. My daughter said, “How can I be like you guys?” or something like that. After the game, they turned to her and said how amazing they thought she was and the life she has ahead of her and her talents and gifts. It opened up on a heart base to each other. My daughter is now having an engagement party here in Australia next month, and my two boys are flying in from America and England just to be at her engagement party, just to support her. It’s really connected them together for life.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What I have experienced that is different than normal interactions is that being a musician, I have worked on my listening ability my whole life. We need to be very intentional about listening. Your pivot from active listening to empathetic listening, I believe I heard the word, is there is a willingness to understand the intent behind this. It’s a whole different paradigm. Where has that been very helpful in the games where people have been at odds? Where has that perspective been helpful?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> I think it’s helpful when we recognize that we have different language. Sometimes we can get caught up on the words. I know for corporate in some organizations, one of the aspects is “unconditional love.” Sometimes I have a corporate edition, which calls it “unconditional acceptance.” I recognize that sometimes it’s just our language that holds us back in the words that we use. If we can go behind the words and get a feeling for what is going on, we are not going to get caught in the language. When we use words, especially words that can have a charge, when we talk about love or God or universe or spirit, people have different ways of expressing that. Just allowing and accepting of that that ultimately we are referring to the same thing. The energy behind it is what’s important.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Nonprofits and religious institutions attract people around a cause. We have passion to the cause. It doesn’t mean that we know how to interact around how we work together. I think there is a big gap. We spend time texting, and we spend time on the cell phone, and emailing, and doing things on our computer, and posting on social media. We are not really having a conversation where we are listening and where we are using I statements. This takes us out of all those routines and has a face-to-face relationship. I see in nonprofits, there is a lot of important work for us to do. Government shouldn’t be doing some of the stuff they are trying to do. Nonprofits can come in and have a neutral place and do some healing and some philanthropic work that we are cut out to do. That would necessitate us being, I call it a new architecture of engagement. How do we show up as this fine-tuned music ensemble? We are in there working together. There is a special place for nonprofits in this communication area. How do you see it playing there?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Can I make a comment about that? I actually used to work for a project called Living for Harmony in Australia. It was about bringing all the different cultures together and recognizing how we can get on together than being separate. That was a project about bringing people from the straight tribes to politicians together and being open together and trying to be honest with each other. The game is part of that process of connecting people, of having a deeper conversation. It’s been played in church groups, in nonprofit groups, in corporations, in schools, in universities. It’s whenever we need to have a greater conversation, and I believe especially wen we are talking about nonprofits. A lot of people in nonprofits come in and volunteer their time because there is a higher purpose to why they are doing it. In return, sometimes, all they want to do is be heard. They want to have a voice and hear that what you’re doing matters and is important to us. We’re hearing you, we’re listening to you, and you are important.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, what are you thinking there?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think that is critical: being able to get support for the mission in nonprofits because you have so many different audiences that you are talking to. Some of them are internal. Your staff, your board, your volunteers/servant leaders, as we like to call them. There is the community you work in. The various people who support you, whether it’s through corporate sponsorship or grant people or individual donors. It’s important to talk to people in terms that are meaningful to them without losing who you are. Having the good conversation is critical to that. It’s difficult to find that language where it works for everyone so that there is no misunderstanding. It’s what it’s all about. That’s how you bring people into the fold, or the way that I feel you bring people into the fold is that you connect with them at a deep level so that you are working toward the same things. You have that deep understanding. And it’s the ability to put what needs to be done ahead of my own individual goals for the greater good. It’s important to have good conversations around how you do that.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Definitely. Well spoken.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The whole shift in paradigm, Barry, it takes us out of feeling like we have to have the answer to something to the place where we are exploring what the answers could be. One of the religious writers I read is Richard Rohr. He is very eloquent in talking about non-dual thinking. We want it to be good or bad, left or right, up or down, debit or credit. There is a third way, a different way, multiple different ways. Instead of being dualistic, let’s talk about the other options. Part of this, do you experience when people are playing the game, that there are times of silence, where there is some profound things going on without words?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> It’s interesting because the realization. I will give you two examples of this. Part of the game, when we say don’t interrupt people, is to allow people an opportunity to sit with the card they pull for a while. Sometimes it can have a profound effect. Part of the magic of the game is not only do they get a card, but in the game, we seem to get the exact cards that we need on the day. It seems to happen that way. We have had two cases.</p> <p>One case I remember, a guy got “Personal Growth and Spirituality.” It was a group of about 20 people. He threw the card on the ground and said, “I don’t want to play.” It was really good because nobody in the group reacted. They just looked at me, like what are you going to do. I said, “It’s your choice. We won’t force you to do anything here. Do what you feel comfortable with.” But he said, “I want to stay.” I said, “All right.” I thought about it. It was a choice: What are you going to do? You can stay. It felt like he needed to stay. He stayed.</p> <p>We got about halfway through, and we had a break. We started playing the second half of the game, and I said, “Any questions?” He put his hand up and said, “Barry, can I play again?” And I said, “Sure. Your card is on the ground, exactly where you left it. You can go pick it up.” Spoken like a true teacher. He went and picked the card up, and I said, “Who wants to go next?” His hand went straight back up again, and he wanted to go next. He pulled a card, and what came up was that he had a rebirth in his spiritual life and walked away from it. This night was the time that he came back to it. He recognized that he couldn’t run away from it anymore. It was an amazing process. It was in the silence of no one trying to fix him and allowing him to make that choice to return to the game, to return to his own spiritual life that created a change in him. That was quite remarkable.</p> <p>Since I did get humor, I had another one. A lady got “Food.” She almost walked out. She got food. “I shouldn’t get food. I should have gotten personal growth and spirituality or unconditional love. I got food. I should have gotten something more important than that. I don’t want to play.” I said, “Look, that’s fine.” Why do people keep asking permission? She got up to leave. She got to the door. At the door, she turned around and looked at the group. The light bulb moment. She said, “Maybe it’s because I had an operation on my stomach last month.” The entire group started laughing, like the connection was so strong. It made her laugh to recognize that’s what was important to her. Of all the aspects, food has the biggest charge for people because how we relate to food or how we don’t relate to food and use it as an emotional crutch and all sorts of things.</p> <p>Those scenarios show me the power is what’s behind the game more than what I do or even more than what the game does. It’s almost like its own energy that runs with it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a shift for me. We are in a high performance culture, no matter where you live. We are expected to do things. We can shift from being human doings to human beings and live in the moment. Be in touch with parts of us that we haven’t been in touch with in a while.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Totally. My greatest gift, and I am grateful, is the fact I get to do this all the time. I get to open up and see and witness people opening up. The two biggest groups I get to witness is one, the person who is really quiet and doesn’t say anything. We normally get a card and say, “I don’t normally speak, and I don’t know what to say. If I had to say something, it would be this wisdom.” Then the other one is the person, you might know those people as well, are the ones who talk all the time. They come up to me at the end and say, “It was great that I didn’t have to have an answer for everything. I learned that I can actually be quiet,” because part of their thinking process is they have to have an answer for everything that is said.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Isn’t that funny? We have imposed that on ourselves. We have to fill every minute with talking, and we have to have answers for everything. I keep seeing celebrities being interviewed, and the interviewer wants to trick them and ask these hard questions. They stumble with their answers. I think, Why do you try to answer? Just say next question. I am not answering that. Oh my</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I have been trying for myself to operate out of the philosophy that there is no accident in the design that I have two ears and only one mouth. My best bet is to try to at minimum use a proportional.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Funny. If people wanted to find out about this Conversations game, what is the URL they can go to?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> The easiest one is ConversationstheGame.com, and .au, for Australia. It’s ConversationstheGame.com.au.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Conversations is the name of the game. ConversationstheGame.com.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> dot com dot au.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh, dot com dot au. Gotta have them both.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Both. Dot com because it’s relating to my business, and dot au because it’s Australia.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Whoa. Put that in the notes so people can go there. We like to keep these interviews under an hour. I think we have given people a huge amount of value today. It’s a physical game. Is there a virtual version of this game?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> One thing we are looking at, and I went to CEO space. Part of what I’m looking at is to create an online version. I do play online with people like we did here. My goal is to create an online version to connect people around the world so that people can start creating relationships and building friendships and building connections with people around the world. A number of things coming up:</p> <p>One is that the Conversations online is a project. If you go to the website, there is some information on that, if people are interested or interested in being a part of it.</p> <p>The other one is the Conversations documentaries, where we video full games and allow people to express who they really are. One of the things I recognize is that sometimes when people have been doing a lot of media, they almost have a script for answers, and you don’t get to know the person behind the script. I think people would be really interested to know who some of the celebrities are behind the scripts. Some of these people would be more than open to say, “We have had to work through this ourselves.” Some new thought leaders would say, “We just didn’t get here. We had to come from somewhere. We have had to work through this process.” The documentaries will be there to support that. We will start those in Australia as early as this year. But there is information on both of those on the website.</p> <p>There is information for people who want to be facilitators of the game. You can get a game and play it with your family and friends. If you want to play it with larger groups, there are processes I do to help people with that. I am really here to help you in whatever way, for your organization, whatever that is, to get that moving and to get your people talking to each other, to get the people they work with talking to each other, getting their families talking to each other.</p> <p><strong>*Sponsor message about Rock Paper Simple*</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, before I give it to Barry for his final thought, what would you like to say to Barry or to us?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Barry, thank you for the work you have done to create this. I am pretty excited about it. It is something I want to look into. In my conversations with people, the one thing I want to highlight is they have all sorts of brilliance already. I’d love to have people tap into that brilliance because they have a lot of their own answers. I ask a lot of questions. This is a remarkable tool that can help enhance that process. Thank you very much for the work you are doing. I look forward to interacting with you more in the future.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Same here, Russell. It’s been great to meet you. My wish for the game. I am going to put my biggest wish here for the game. I know when I created the game, the dream was actually more than the game. Part of the dream, there was a grassroots approach to get the game out there. It wasn’t a Mattel toy you buy in the shop. It is people supporting people supporting people. My wish is that this game is in every family, every family gets the opportunity to play it. Every church has it in the church to help its congregations. Every nonprofit organization has it to support their volunteers and the work they do. I want every corporation to have a game so that we create a new way of doing business with each other. I want schools to have it so that kids know they are safe and can talk to each other as well. That is my real wish.</p> <p>I know I can’t do that alone. I know it has to be a grassroots. If there are people out there who want to be part of this and help with that process, we already have 100 facilitators around the world. We haven’t built up America yet. There is an opportunity there to look at that. If people want to support that process in making a difference in the way that we talk to each other. I want to thank you, Russell and Hugh, for the opportunity today to show people just how amazing this game is because I really feel I am a custodian for this game. It came through a dream. I feel that sense of responsibility to nurture it and get it out there to the world.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Barry, you are an inspiration. Thank you so much for sharing with the nonprofit community on <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em></p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Thanks, Hugh.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Purposeful Decision Making and Effective Problem Solving  with Jess Dewell</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/purposeful-decision-making-and-effective-problem-solving-with-jess-dewell</link>
      <description>Staying in business can be difficult at times. Critical skills that are required to build a business exist and grow year after year. All business owners, at one time or another, find themselves struggling to keep clients (retention), to keep up with what customers want from the company (experience), and to add people (increase products).
 Over the last 20 years, Jess Dewell has worked on many of these problems with companies and clients. When there is a chasm to cross, she points it out and cultivates the team to figure out how to build a way across.
  Professional and thoughtful, she brings to the table.
 Transcript of the Interview
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. We are into the fourth year of this now, Russ. Russ, I know we’re on an audio podcast, but I don’t see your smiling face. All I see is a picture. One of your better pictures.
 Russell Dennis: Well, I’ll fix that. I should be live.
 Hugh: There you are. I’m traveling today. I’m at a hotel in Orlando. We have a live audience here. We are going to be watching with bated breath, and we will come in with a few questions. We do have a little background noise, so I’m going to mute myself. It’s probably a popular notion with some people, so we will mute our end so it will be quieter. Russ has got some really good questions for what I think is going to be an amazing interview today with- Jess, you know me, so I am just getting acquainted with you. I am going to pay attention.
 Jess Dewell: It’s great how that happened. You meet somebody, and they tell you all about you and how you think, yet you have never met them before because of the personality and the ways that we get to communicate. I totally understand being in that place.
 Hugh: Love it. Tell us about yourself and how come you do what you do. Then Russell will take it on and ask you some really interesting questions.
 Jess: That sounds great. I am Jess Dewell. I founded Red Direction 14 years ago. It started out as something slightly different than what it became. It became building frameworks for resilience. What came up on the radio show that I host, which was live streamed right before we are live streaming here, we were talking about bounciness. The more struggle we face, the more that we fall down, the more risks we are willing to take, we get bouncier. I love the concept of that and how that fits into businesses. Businesses can get that concept of bounciness. Pick ourselves up together, and go forward together. The last seven years have really been dialed into what we do for organizations that are growing and changing. They are in these critical points of development, and their leadership got them so far, their skills got them so far, and now it’s time to infuse them with more. Turn them upside down. Look at them in different ways to maximize the work flow, learning, and experience that already exists to go forward with grace and determination and whatever words you use to describe your companies. That is what we do over here at Red Direction.
 Russell: It’s all about establishing the great culture. There are a lot of things that go into culture. For our audience, what does culture mean to you in the sense that applies to organizations?
 Jess: You could look it up on the Internet and get the definition that Google or whatever your search engine is will tell you. I define culture as how we work together, and the strength with which we are able to work together and its effectiveness.
 Russell: Yeah. What are some elements of culture that make organizations successful?
 Jess: What makes an organization successful? I am getting cues that your volume, Russ, is not as high as our audience would like. Since I got that message, I am going to pass it on to you right here. Will you repeat the question?
 Russell: What are some of the elements that go into culture that make an organization successful?
 Jess: Are you ready for this? Are you really ready for this, Russ?
 Russell: Bring it on.
 Jess: People, people, people. There might be a few more p’s, and we will just replace them with people and people and people. It’s the culture. It’s what do we look at, how do we react, and preferably, how do we respond, and of course, how are the other people that we are surrounding ourselves with doing those things? And an awareness of the fact that we play off of each other.
 Russell: Because you work with a lot of organizations of all types, what do you find are the biggest disconnects in organizations that have problems culturally?
 Jess: Are you ready?
 Russell: I am ready.
 Jess: People, people, people, people, people. So really, it’s we think we are doing one thing, and we are being perceived as something different. There is a break in our communication. We think somebody is doing something, but we never actually asked the clarifying question. Even some people go, “I have a dumb question.” You know what? The dumb question that goes unasked just leads to bigger misunderstandings, so might as well ask that and get rid of the qualifier at the same time. “I have a question. Did I understand this right?” We are thinking of culture, and we are thinking of how to work together as a team. We all have different reasons for being in the roles that we are at. A wise man once told me, “The people who work here choose with their own two feet every single day to come to work for us.” I thought that was really a fabulous thing, and understanding that everybody has a different reason for being here, to work together. Yes, we have all agreed to this goal; however, if we haven’t created some sort of an awareness of how all of us fit into that end goal, we end up getting bumps and scratches and slowdowns and stalls and U-turns also.
 Russell: Let’s look at the term “rules.” My good friend Dr. Hal Dibner talked with me the last time I saw him, we were actually talking about rules and how to move people to action. There are a lot of internal rules that each of us has that shapes the way we approach things and the way that we live. I think these rules can become internalized in the culture with an organization. What are some rules that you have seen that have become part of the culture of organizations that have hindered their progress?
 Jess: I call those “elephants in the room.” The big elephants in the room. One of the things that Red Directions’ programs are really good at is finding the elephants in the room, pointing them out, setting up a little station, and inviting them to break them. Just being aware of what elephants are in the room. Another phrase might be “unwritten agreements.” We have done it this way. It’s worked all right, so this is the way that we do it. Whether that’s the case, or we are avoiding something, the elephants in the room, either way, when left unexplored, it can cause so many big problems. I have been a part of a company that has imploded because of that. I have also seen companies really unfortunately breed distrust and really feel fear around, “Am I actually safe in my role?” because of the unwritten agreements and insecurities and unknowns they cause. All that gets in the way of decision-making, which really when we are in business, is the ultimate goal: make decisions, nonprofit or otherwise, move toward an objective, make decisions, move toward an objective. Hit those goals and those signposts along the way.
 Russell: I think that the way people view their work really impacts the culture. When organizations get stuck, in my experience, a lot of people don’t really like to be told what’s wrong. At what point do you find that organizations have hit a place where they are willing to have those conversations? How much does it generally take in your experience for somebody to reach that point?
 Jess: It really varies. I have witnessed some other outlying symptoms if you will. If we were to look at symptoms that you are on your way down that rollercoaster, and you’re not sure if there is an up at the other side, is that everybody is tired. Everybody is behind. They are unable to keep up with the things that they have going on, with the commitments that they have made, and it becomes a drag. Those are the types of things that allow us to miss other cues. We are turned off from actually using our external perception, and it’s only stuck inside here. It can manifest other ways, too, besides the “I’m stuck,” “I’m overwhelmed,” or “I can’t meet my deadlines.” People leave. I’m burned out. People leave. “This is not what I thought it was going to be.” People leave, and then they are talking about their experience. They don’t talk about their experience until they leave. Nobody inside knew because there was a gap between each of the people, and there was “seemingly” to have a connection, but it was actually missing or had been broken.
 Russell: A lot of our work focuses around leaders and how leaders interact and work with people and a common problem is leaders that overfunction.
 Jess: Yes.
 Russell: They take on a lot of things rather than train people. They find that it’s “quicker” just to do it myself than explain how to do it. Sometimes there is a fear of letting go of some control, not trusting people to do it. But if you bring people on to your team, you hire people because of the skills, knowledge, and abilities that will serve you, they have talent, and letting people actually do what it is that they do is a little difficult for leaders. That can get grounded in the culture. That creates burnout because you have a few high performers who are not being built to be better leaders, and they are just trying to do things instead of spreading them out, delegating, and building. The leadership skills of other people. We see that in nonprofits. Are you seeing that with-
 Jess: In every organization. Every organization is susceptible to that. It’s interesting because yes, we hire for skills, knowledge, and ability. Most of the time, in most processes for bringing people on, what is left out, or what doesn’t have enough focus in that interview and onboarding process is what we mean when we say whatever we value. If service to a specific group, serving an underrepresented group in some way, if somebody comes on and they have the skills, the knowledge, and the ability, but they are only using this as a stepping stone, and they are exactly what you want for the job, part of the conversation becomes, “We know this is just a stepping stone on your path. Are you able to buy in? What do you like? What are we disconnected on what you’re doing while you’re here? Do you understand with where you’re going how this actually helps you get there?” You know what? A lot of people don’t want to face the fact that they are hiring someone who is going to leave. However, if we bring it up in the conversation, and we are talking about this, and it’s part of what we believe in, we know- We know we’re not going to do what we’re doing forever. We know we haven’t done what we’re doing forever. We have all had different experiences in the past. So why not just put that on the table? Then it’s never a surprise. Then it’s your performance reviews, your check-ins we’re having along the way, the conversations we are having before, after, and during meetings can still revolve around what are we doing in this organization? What is our mission? What is each of our parts in that while we are here? That type of collaboration is what is going to make somebody want to stay, but also it will prepare them to get them to where they want to go. As leaders, as employers, anybody with staff, it is our job to embrace and to love and get that person where they want to go because maybe this is the place, maybe it’s not, but we can do really well for them, for us, for our community, for our donors, for the people that we serve because of that small thing: having that type of conversation up front.
 Hugh: Hey, Russell. We are having trouble hearing you.
 Russell: It’s all about growth. That better? It’s all about growth. If you have a conversation about values, it’s important for both individuals and the organization to understand what it is that people want to get out of a relationship that you have. This is how you attract people, whether they are working for you, volunteering for you, coming to work as a staff member, coming to serve on your board. It’s having congruent values that will drive the day. The idea of growth is something that is fundamental to everything. To get better at what you do, you increase that level of support that you get. Culturally, with nonprofits, one of the things aside from the fact that you have some leaders that may overfunction, maybe they haven’t thought through all of their processes or systems or how they can actually get better at creating an experience because they are more effective and efficient at delivering their programs. Talk a little bit about your experience around that and some of the things that you would help people work around that.
 Jess: I wouldn’t say work around, I would say work with and strengthen. The reason is that we all have a strength. When we can put a stake in the ground and say, “This is what I stand for,” wherever I work, whoever I work with, I know what I stand for in general. That allows me to have a guidepost when I show up in an organization and when I am working with other people. If other people are floundering around and are not sure, we put on that lens. What is important to me? What is my purpose here? What is my purpose in this situation? Maybe not my life purpose, but in this situation. How can I bridge that gap to move things forward? Those are the types of skills that we develop, programs that we create. The biggest reason for that is experience. Until we do it, we don’t know if we are good at it. Until we do it, we don’t know how to apply our personal strengths to the work that we’re doing. When we find our strength and can focus everything through that, it becomes easier as managers, as directors, to find the strengths in others and be curious and be willing to try a few things here to be curious with others to find their strengths as well. Maybe it’s a strength. A lot of people know that they can stay behind an idea. In a nonprofit, I come to work for a nonprofit, I volunteer at a nonprofit, I give money to a nonprofit because I care about the idea they are working on. When it comes to actually doing the infrastructure, taking the action to make all that possible-
 You mentioned your values, how do we bring all of our skills together to get something done? But also you talked about processes and systems. Processes and systems are great on paper. As soon as you add people to them, you add what they are thinking in that moment, what their past was, what their dreams are, and what is on their mind right now in that situation. It may not be those things that are most important to working on an organization to develop it. Processes and systems are really impacted by all of the things that we care about, all of the things that we face. I am all about efficient systems, efficient processes. However, when we stop, when we weave what we care about, how we do our work together here at this organization, allows us to then be able to have a deeper conversation, a quicker conversation, which improves efficiency in a whole different way than just pushing the levers of a process.
 Hugh: How about a question from Florida?
 Danna Olivo: Yeah, Jess.
 Jess: Bring it.
 Danna: Bring it on. It’s funny that we’re talking about this today because- My name is Danna Olivo, and I am a business strategist. I work with early-stage micro-companies and medium companies. I work on those processes, the systems, and things like that. But one of the things that was really fascinating to me was you were talking about communication styles and hiring and things like that, talking about skills and values. One of the things that a lot of companies don’t take into consideration when hiring are the behavioral and cultural characteristics that are inbred in the people they are looking to hire and making sure that those cultural characteristics match the organization. Therefore, in order to do that, what we have done is we are trying to make a concerted effort to try and match those cultures to the behavioral characteristics to get a better understanding of their fit within the organization.
 Jess: May I ask you a question?
 Danna: Yes.
 Jess: When you’re thinking about that, that means an organization really has to know.
 Danna: The whole thing just dropped.
 Jess: That means an organization has to really know where they stand. They understand that what they’re doing is already working. Do you find that a company is going to need some other help and some other work actually figuring out where they stand as an organization versus just being able to put this on top of what already exists?
 Danna: Yes, I do find that part of the whole process is we have to make sure that they have those working systems and methodologies in place. Part of that process involves bringing the team on that will work with them in order to do that. If they aren’t centered around the same cultural values that the company has set in place, you are going to end up with a divided approach to these systems and methodologies. Does that make sense?
 Jess: It makes complete sense. In fact, sometimes, in an existing organization that is going back, they are going, “We are having this problem hiring the right people. We are having this problem keeping the people we want who have the skills in our roles.” When we get to that, it’s interesting because people are always like, it’s the people. It’s the talent we are facing. They forget to look inward. Those would be the things where I’d be like, How strapped are ya? Because you might be better off having somebody do some temp work just for a short period of time, stop to take a step back, and evaluate some other things. Those are the elephants. You’re talking about the elephants in the room right there, Danna, and being able to recognize what we are willing to incorporate right now for where we are. One of the things that I hear in the work that you and I do, people want me to come in, and they think I can change everything. The answer is no, I can’t change anything. I can only facilitate and create a program to educate to allow that change to occur within an organization.
 The other thing that people think, in all organizations, both profit and nonprofit, I get a lot of work done from people who have just done a rebrand, thinking that rebranding will actually solve the problems that we are unclear about what we stand for. You probably are unclear about what you stand for, but the way you look and describe yourself doesn’t matter. It’s a Band-Aid, isn’t it?
 Danna: I love the fact that you’re talking about this because we are all about education. What I teach my people is you can’t operate in a vacuum. You don’t have all the answers. You have to surround yourself with that team that will be able to help you reach those goals. You have to surround yourself with those people who will be able to say, “You’re off base.”
 Jess: I keep pointing with two different colored pens because these are the notes that I take. Anybody listening is going to be like, “What is she talking about?” I have two pens to take notes on every conversation that I have because there are things I want in one color and other things in another color. All of my notes have been written on before by a third color. If I hold up pens at you, it just means I’m excited. Yes!
 Nonetheless, I hear what you’re saying. You’re right. It is about education. You said something that made me think about a program that we have. We talk about ThinkTime. This is a combination of words, think and time, that might be heard in the same sentence, that are squished together with no spaces. ThinkTime. This is something that we do at Red Direction. We have a process. How do I, as the steward of this mission that we’re on, whether it’s an entire organization, whether it’s a business unit, whether it’s my particular role, how do I in the stewardship of my position have time to actually allow all the chatter to get out? Because all that chatter has to get out to have new creative thoughts. More importantly, ThinkTime, a lot of people are like great. I like a whole day; however, I don’t use a whole day. I use a half day to get started. I use four hours, once a week for four hours, closing everything out. This is how that system typically goes. I am going to give you all the steps. You guys can play with this as much as you want.
 That is first, put it in a calendar, and guard it fiercely. Four hours, one time a week. The first month, the first four, maybe the first eight, you are going to think they are useless. They will feel useless. All you will want to do is catch up on email. All you want to do is clear up the clutter on your desk. All you want to do is return those phone calls. All you want to do is write out a report that needed to happen or think about reports. It takes some time. But after about eight to ten sessions of four hours, all of a sudden, you sit down. I remember this so clearly the first time I did this. This is going to work; this is so great! You sit down, and it’s like, Okay, I actually see the Red Direction vision. I actually see the actions that we’re taking right now. I can just experience what that looks like and have an idea of what problems we’re facing right now, where we’re doing really well, and then what are the things that we could be doing better or different? When we have that space outside of our ThinkTime is when we go, Let’s break it down into a problem. Do I have a problem here? What’s that problem? Let’s go through those four steps of problem-solving. Then we can go bright. When we get to the options, we get to make a decision. Being confident in a decision comes from not running around rapid, not thinking or knowing we are never going to have all the answers no matter how much information you know about it, but we spent the time upfront to decide what the decision was, what the problem is we are going to solve. We are evaluating the path, not just a solution, but the path to betterment, the path to what we want next.
 The more we get to do that, that’s the second piece, the more we get to practice those steps, the more confident we become in our decisions, and we can make them quicker. We can evaluate and get rid of options that don’t work right now.
 Tell me this, Danna, and whomever is sitting next to you, and Russ. When you are sitting here and looking at all these problems you’re looking at all these things that are going on. I can choose any one of them. I don’t know what this means; you have too many options. Does that happen to you? Occasionally, sometimes, all the time.
 Danna: Oh yes, even as a strategist, I find that I have to take a step back and decide, Okay, which one do I need to focus on right now? First of all. Secondly, what is the fastest way to come into a solution? By taking that step back sometimes and evaluating what is my talent, what is it, my talent that can help me come up with that solution? If I can’t find the talent within me to provide a solution, then I have a resource of people around me who I reach out to. I am not afraid to bring them in. You can’t operate in a vacuum. You said this. Our capacity as an entrepreneur only extends so far.
 Jess: That’s right.
 Danna: This happens to me. Jose Belen here, has a new nonprofit that he is starting called Mission Zero. Great nonprofit. We happen to be meeting Hugh here so we can get some tips and learn and stuff like that. Do you have any questions for her?
 Jose Belen: No. Actually, this has been very informative. We have been around for about six months. Mission Zero is an organization dedicated to helping veteran suicide. That was part of the initial invasion into Iraq in 2003. Since I was honorably discharged in 2005, I have been fighting PTSD and suicidal thoughts. Every 80 minutes, there is a veteran somewhere in America committing suicide. We are dedicated to making a difference. So Mission Zero hopefully one day will stop veteran suicides. We appreciate any support and like-minded individuals. Thank you.
 Danna: So they took the advice that you are giving. They have been surrounding themselves with the people who can help them get this off the ground rather than trying to do it all themselves.
 Hugh: Jess, you probably know more about me than I know about you, but I’m quite amazed at the synchronicity of what you are talking about. I will give it back to Russell. I hijacked his questioning here. But it’s the synchronicity of what you are talking about and what we teach at SynerVision. This whole culture piece is core to transformational leadership and how we empower leaders. Thank you for such a passion around this. Love it. So, Russell, remember the old age and mental condition? I will give it back to you.
 Russell: Almost escaped without that. He loves that one. That is his trademark thing. I don’t know why. It’s not true. He likes it. He entertains himself with that story. He’s going to find out as he gets to spend more time with you and learn more about you how remarkable you are. We haven’t known each other very long, but I love what you’re doing. What you’re talking about is creating safe spaces and collaboration. Collaboration is something that I think people are slowly starting to get. It’s a really important piece of everything that we do. It’s about people. I just had a mastermind this morning with other business leaders who were talking to me about helping me and my business. It doesn’t matter how many people you meet. A lot of times, there is that little piece of us that resists. Talk to us a little bit about how you help businesspeople, nonprofit leaders, some of the tools that you use to help them face that inner resistance. That is the one thing an organization, it’s all about people. We have this built-in resistance. Part of it is to change and some other things. Talk a little bit how you equip people to deal with that resistance and what they should look for.
 Jess: Such a loaded question. There are like 212 ways—that is when water boils—we could start this conversation. I think ultimately the point is that water will boil. If we resist long enough, we have no choice, just like water in a pan on a stove. It doesn’t matter how long you leave it there. It will eventually reach 212 degrees and boil. I feel like when, so tools.
 Let’s talk about tools. A lot of the tools that we teach are soft skills. The reason we teach soft skills is because I can come up with a process just like all of the other processes out there. Some would be good, and some would not be as good as the other ones out there. We all work differently. When we all work differently, and we are thinking about how we do what we do, we don’t give ourselves grace. We resist what our own strength is and how we work.
 We are going to go back and use me as an example. There were five people in my family, three kids and two adults. Every Sunday, we would sit at the dining room table after dinner and we would look at the whole next week. If it wasn’t on the calendar, it did not happen. It was the time to ask questions, get permission, do all of this stuff. I grew up with this time management concept. I grew up with this concept of, Okay, we know who the decision-maker is, the person who can drive. If it doesn’t fit in their calendar, it can’t work, so I have to make a really good case that my stuff is more important than my sister’s.
 This happens in business. This same thing happens in business. We get together, whether we are using time management skills or not, it comes down to how persuasive are we, how passionate are we? Can we clearly communicate the beginning, middle, and end of an idea to move it forward? Some people use time. I am really good at time and time blocking, and ThinkTime is a part of that. I am also really adept, and the programs we teach around soft skills are also around time management because we can only scale so much. We can only scale so much with one person. Each person can only scale so much. The whole purpose of being in an organization is to be able to understand what is my purpose, how do I leverage my time? What is their purpose, and how do we leverage their time? Have a good time doing it. Enjoy being together. You mentioned the word “ collaboration.” I think collaboration fits in a lot of different ways here. We are talking about- By the way, everybody who thinks collaboration- I am going to stop what I was going to say and talk about collaboration.
 I have a bad taste in my mouth when somebody says collaboration because I remember when, and we can all do this, I remember a time I was on a collaborative cross-functional team, and I did all the work. Now you know- You’re a driver. You’re going to do what it takes. Right? So we have to let that go. Those of us who feel that way, and other people are like, Ooh, collaboration. I give ideas, give ideas, give ideas, and I don’t have to do anything. Let me just be an idea machine. Well, that only works to a point, too. Then there are the people who will take different kinds of action and throw in what some of us would call kinks in the wheel, but they are trying to make it better. They are poking holes in it. Can we get this to a point where we are seamless, we have something that can stick that we all agree on? Those people are really necessary, too. When we embrace not everybody does well, not everybody thinks well, not everybody wants to be the devil’s advocate, then we get to go, “Hey, we need everybody.” We can do this in a different way. We can have a conversation. Collaboration starts with a conversation. What are we doing? What can our parts be? How can we move this forward together?
 Hugh: Jess, you have opened up a lot of topics.
 Jess: I know, right?
 Hugh: You’re in here because Russell invited you. I have to work hard so I can keep up with him. He’s a smart dude. What I’m going to throw out here is I’d like to take a couple of these themes and come back around and dig into some of these themes a little deeper. You have a whole lot of stuff to unpack here. We are coming to the top of the hour for this particular show. I want to talk about the sponsor moment here that makes it possible and give you a chance to wrap people’s heads around some of the major themes you want to leave us with. Then we will let Russell close us out. Does that sound good to you guys? Russ has been really diligent in helping us pull this together today with a whole lot of technical issues.
 *Sponsor message for Rock Paper Simple*
 Jess, how would you like to wrap this up and leave folks with? What is a profound thought you want to leave people with before Russ closes out this great session?
 Jess: All right, we just upped the ante. The most profound thought you want to leave us with, Hugh. There is no low bars here. Everybody, I have listened to a few of these in preparation for this conversation. Of course, I know Hugh, and I know Russ. There is no going back; there is only forward. I think that that’s really a key piece of what culture and what we’re talking about when we are talking about these elements of culture is that we are always moving forward. We can embrace it. We can resist it. Either way, it’s coming. We can make it more fun. We can make it more effective, and we can serve more people when we get out of our own way and we recognize our own self and how we can show up and invite others to continue to join our party.
 Russell: Great stuff. In conversation with what’s happening with anything that I touch has to start in the mirror. That is the X factor. That is the one thing I can actually do something about. The willingness to actually look at where we are as individuals energetically makes a big difference. We can find some compassion for ourselves in there and in other people and put ourselves in their shoes and say, “How can we create an experience? How can we get to the larger point? What are the things we need to put on the shelf to make this thing work the way it is built to work?” That is really where it starts.
 Jess, as always, it’s been a pleasure. Danna, Hugh, all of our friends down at CEO Space, the July forum, wonderful organization. Being a part of that has changed my life. I have a contact in veteran suicide that is actually somebody that has been in Texas shining the spotlight on it. His primary thing is to get their stories captured. We will cycle back around and talk about that again.
 In the meantime, I’d like to thank all of our listeners out there every week who join us here at The Nonprofit Exchange. We got a really good guest next week. He is going to be talking about conversations. He has an incredible tool that can help us look at the way we have conversations on a personal and professional level. You don’t want to miss this because he has got a brilliant tool called Conversations. Join us next week for that. Hugh.
 Hugh: Thank you, Russ. Thank you, Jess. It’s been a great session. Thank you so much.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7cfbe442-b329-11eb-9f0f-97b5f7e8a84d/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Staying in business can be difficult at times. Critical skills that are required to build a business exist and grow year after year. All business owners, at one time or another, find themselves struggling to keep clients (retention), to keep up with...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Staying in business can be difficult at times. Critical skills that are required to build a business exist and grow year after year. All business owners, at one time or another, find themselves struggling to keep clients (retention), to keep up with what customers want from the company (experience), and to add people (increase products).
 Over the last 20 years, Jess Dewell has worked on many of these problems with companies and clients. When there is a chasm to cross, she points it out and cultivates the team to figure out how to build a way across.
  Professional and thoughtful, she brings to the table.
 Transcript of the Interview
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. We are into the fourth year of this now, Russ. Russ, I know we’re on an audio podcast, but I don’t see your smiling face. All I see is a picture. One of your better pictures.
 Russell Dennis: Well, I’ll fix that. I should be live.
 Hugh: There you are. I’m traveling today. I’m at a hotel in Orlando. We have a live audience here. We are going to be watching with bated breath, and we will come in with a few questions. We do have a little background noise, so I’m going to mute myself. It’s probably a popular notion with some people, so we will mute our end so it will be quieter. Russ has got some really good questions for what I think is going to be an amazing interview today with- Jess, you know me, so I am just getting acquainted with you. I am going to pay attention.
 Jess Dewell: It’s great how that happened. You meet somebody, and they tell you all about you and how you think, yet you have never met them before because of the personality and the ways that we get to communicate. I totally understand being in that place.
 Hugh: Love it. Tell us about yourself and how come you do what you do. Then Russell will take it on and ask you some really interesting questions.
 Jess: That sounds great. I am Jess Dewell. I founded Red Direction 14 years ago. It started out as something slightly different than what it became. It became building frameworks for resilience. What came up on the radio show that I host, which was live streamed right before we are live streaming here, we were talking about bounciness. The more struggle we face, the more that we fall down, the more risks we are willing to take, we get bouncier. I love the concept of that and how that fits into businesses. Businesses can get that concept of bounciness. Pick ourselves up together, and go forward together. The last seven years have really been dialed into what we do for organizations that are growing and changing. They are in these critical points of development, and their leadership got them so far, their skills got them so far, and now it’s time to infuse them with more. Turn them upside down. Look at them in different ways to maximize the work flow, learning, and experience that already exists to go forward with grace and determination and whatever words you use to describe your companies. That is what we do over here at Red Direction.
 Russell: It’s all about establishing the great culture. There are a lot of things that go into culture. For our audience, what does culture mean to you in the sense that applies to organizations?
 Jess: You could look it up on the Internet and get the definition that Google or whatever your search engine is will tell you. I define culture as how we work together, and the strength with which we are able to work together and its effectiveness.
 Russell: Yeah. What are some elements of culture that make organizations successful?
 Jess: What makes an organization successful? I am getting cues that your volume, Russ, is not as high as our audience would like. Since I got that message, I am going to pass it on to you right here. Will you repeat the question?
 Russell: What are some of the elements that go into culture that make an organization successful?
 Jess: Are you ready for this? Are you really ready for this, Russ?
 Russell: Bring it on.
 Jess: People, people, people. There might be a few more p’s, and we will just replace them with people and people and people. It’s the culture. It’s what do we look at, how do we react, and preferably, how do we respond, and of course, how are the other people that we are surrounding ourselves with doing those things? And an awareness of the fact that we play off of each other.
 Russell: Because you work with a lot of organizations of all types, what do you find are the biggest disconnects in organizations that have problems culturally?
 Jess: Are you ready?
 Russell: I am ready.
 Jess: People, people, people, people, people. So really, it’s we think we are doing one thing, and we are being perceived as something different. There is a break in our communication. We think somebody is doing something, but we never actually asked the clarifying question. Even some people go, “I have a dumb question.” You know what? The dumb question that goes unasked just leads to bigger misunderstandings, so might as well ask that and get rid of the qualifier at the same time. “I have a question. Did I understand this right?” We are thinking of culture, and we are thinking of how to work together as a team. We all have different reasons for being in the roles that we are at. A wise man once told me, “The people who work here choose with their own two feet every single day to come to work for us.” I thought that was really a fabulous thing, and understanding that everybody has a different reason for being here, to work together. Yes, we have all agreed to this goal; however, if we haven’t created some sort of an awareness of how all of us fit into that end goal, we end up getting bumps and scratches and slowdowns and stalls and U-turns also.
 Russell: Let’s look at the term “rules.” My good friend Dr. Hal Dibner talked with me the last time I saw him, we were actually talking about rules and how to move people to action. There are a lot of internal rules that each of us has that shapes the way we approach things and the way that we live. I think these rules can become internalized in the culture with an organization. What are some rules that you have seen that have become part of the culture of organizations that have hindered their progress?
 Jess: I call those “elephants in the room.” The big elephants in the room. One of the things that Red Directions’ programs are really good at is finding the elephants in the room, pointing them out, setting up a little station, and inviting them to break them. Just being aware of what elephants are in the room. Another phrase might be “unwritten agreements.” We have done it this way. It’s worked all right, so this is the way that we do it. Whether that’s the case, or we are avoiding something, the elephants in the room, either way, when left unexplored, it can cause so many big problems. I have been a part of a company that has imploded because of that. I have also seen companies really unfortunately breed distrust and really feel fear around, “Am I actually safe in my role?” because of the unwritten agreements and insecurities and unknowns they cause. All that gets in the way of decision-making, which really when we are in business, is the ultimate goal: make decisions, nonprofit or otherwise, move toward an objective, make decisions, move toward an objective. Hit those goals and those signposts along the way.
 Russell: I think that the way people view their work really impacts the culture. When organizations get stuck, in my experience, a lot of people don’t really like to be told what’s wrong. At what point do you find that organizations have hit a place where they are willing to have those conversations? How much does it generally take in your experience for somebody to reach that point?
 Jess: It really varies. I have witnessed some other outlying symptoms if you will. If we were to look at symptoms that you are on your way down that rollercoaster, and you’re not sure if there is an up at the other side, is that everybody is tired. Everybody is behind. They are unable to keep up with the things that they have going on, with the commitments that they have made, and it becomes a drag. Those are the types of things that allow us to miss other cues. We are turned off from actually using our external perception, and it’s only stuck inside here. It can manifest other ways, too, besides the “I’m stuck,” “I’m overwhelmed,” or “I can’t meet my deadlines.” People leave. I’m burned out. People leave. “This is not what I thought it was going to be.” People leave, and then they are talking about their experience. They don’t talk about their experience until they leave. Nobody inside knew because there was a gap between each of the people, and there was “seemingly” to have a connection, but it was actually missing or had been broken.
 Russell: A lot of our work focuses around leaders and how leaders interact and work with people and a common problem is leaders that overfunction.
 Jess: Yes.
 Russell: They take on a lot of things rather than train people. They find that it’s “quicker” just to do it myself than explain how to do it. Sometimes there is a fear of letting go of some control, not trusting people to do it. But if you bring people on to your team, you hire people because of the skills, knowledge, and abilities that will serve you, they have talent, and letting people actually do what it is that they do is a little difficult for leaders. That can get grounded in the culture. That creates burnout because you have a few high performers who are not being built to be better leaders, and they are just trying to do things instead of spreading them out, delegating, and building. The leadership skills of other people. We see that in nonprofits. Are you seeing that with-
 Jess: In every organization. Every organization is susceptible to that. It’s interesting because yes, we hire for skills, knowledge, and ability. Most of the time, in most processes for bringing people on, what is left out, or what doesn’t have enough focus in that interview and onboarding process is what we mean when we say whatever we value. If service to a specific group, serving an underrepresented group in some way, if somebody comes on and they have the skills, the knowledge, and the ability, but they are only using this as a stepping stone, and they are exactly what you want for the job, part of the conversation becomes, “We know this is just a stepping stone on your path. Are you able to buy in? What do you like? What are we disconnected on what you’re doing while you’re here? Do you understand with where you’re going how this actually helps you get there?” You know what? A lot of people don’t want to face the fact that they are hiring someone who is going to leave. However, if we bring it up in the conversation, and we are talking about this, and it’s part of what we believe in, we know- We know we’re not going to do what we’re doing forever. We know we haven’t done what we’re doing forever. We have all had different experiences in the past. So why not just put that on the table? Then it’s never a surprise. Then it’s your performance reviews, your check-ins we’re having along the way, the conversations we are having before, after, and during meetings can still revolve around what are we doing in this organization? What is our mission? What is each of our parts in that while we are here? That type of collaboration is what is going to make somebody want to stay, but also it will prepare them to get them to where they want to go. As leaders, as employers, anybody with staff, it is our job to embrace and to love and get that person where they want to go because maybe this is the place, maybe it’s not, but we can do really well for them, for us, for our community, for our donors, for the people that we serve because of that small thing: having that type of conversation up front.
 Hugh: Hey, Russell. We are having trouble hearing you.
 Russell: It’s all about growth. That better? It’s all about growth. If you have a conversation about values, it’s important for both individuals and the organization to understand what it is that people want to get out of a relationship that you have. This is how you attract people, whether they are working for you, volunteering for you, coming to work as a staff member, coming to serve on your board. It’s having congruent values that will drive the day. The idea of growth is something that is fundamental to everything. To get better at what you do, you increase that level of support that you get. Culturally, with nonprofits, one of the things aside from the fact that you have some leaders that may overfunction, maybe they haven’t thought through all of their processes or systems or how they can actually get better at creating an experience because they are more effective and efficient at delivering their programs. Talk a little bit about your experience around that and some of the things that you would help people work around that.
 Jess: I wouldn’t say work around, I would say work with and strengthen. The reason is that we all have a strength. When we can put a stake in the ground and say, “This is what I stand for,” wherever I work, whoever I work with, I know what I stand for in general. That allows me to have a guidepost when I show up in an organization and when I am working with other people. If other people are floundering around and are not sure, we put on that lens. What is important to me? What is my purpose here? What is my purpose in this situation? Maybe not my life purpose, but in this situation. How can I bridge that gap to move things forward? Those are the types of skills that we develop, programs that we create. The biggest reason for that is experience. Until we do it, we don’t know if we are good at it. Until we do it, we don’t know how to apply our personal strengths to the work that we’re doing. When we find our strength and can focus everything through that, it becomes easier as managers, as directors, to find the strengths in others and be curious and be willing to try a few things here to be curious with others to find their strengths as well. Maybe it’s a strength. A lot of people know that they can stay behind an idea. In a nonprofit, I come to work for a nonprofit, I volunteer at a nonprofit, I give money to a nonprofit because I care about the idea they are working on. When it comes to actually doing the infrastructure, taking the action to make all that possible-
 You mentioned your values, how do we bring all of our skills together to get something done? But also you talked about processes and systems. Processes and systems are great on paper. As soon as you add people to them, you add what they are thinking in that moment, what their past was, what their dreams are, and what is on their mind right now in that situation. It may not be those things that are most important to working on an organization to develop it. Processes and systems are really impacted by all of the things that we care about, all of the things that we face. I am all about efficient systems, efficient processes. However, when we stop, when we weave what we care about, how we do our work together here at this organization, allows us to then be able to have a deeper conversation, a quicker conversation, which improves efficiency in a whole different way than just pushing the levers of a process.
 Hugh: How about a question from Florida?
 Danna Olivo: Yeah, Jess.
 Jess: Bring it.
 Danna: Bring it on. It’s funny that we’re talking about this today because- My name is Danna Olivo, and I am a business strategist. I work with early-stage micro-companies and medium companies. I work on those processes, the systems, and things like that. But one of the things that was really fascinating to me was you were talking about communication styles and hiring and things like that, talking about skills and values. One of the things that a lot of companies don’t take into consideration when hiring are the behavioral and cultural characteristics that are inbred in the people they are looking to hire and making sure that those cultural characteristics match the organization. Therefore, in order to do that, what we have done is we are trying to make a concerted effort to try and match those cultures to the behavioral characteristics to get a better understanding of their fit within the organization.
 Jess: May I ask you a question?
 Danna: Yes.
 Jess: When you’re thinking about that, that means an organization really has to know.
 Danna: The whole thing just dropped.
 Jess: That means an organization has to really know where they stand. They understand that what they’re doing is already working. Do you find that a company is going to need some other help and some other work actually figuring out where they stand as an organization versus just being able to put this on top of what already exists?
 Danna: Yes, I do find that part of the whole process is we have to make sure that they have those working systems and methodologies in place. Part of that process involves bringing the team on that will work with them in order to do that. If they aren’t centered around the same cultural values that the company has set in place, you are going to end up with a divided approach to these systems and methodologies. Does that make sense?
 Jess: It makes complete sense. In fact, sometimes, in an existing organization that is going back, they are going, “We are having this problem hiring the right people. We are having this problem keeping the people we want who have the skills in our roles.” When we get to that, it’s interesting because people are always like, it’s the people. It’s the talent we are facing. They forget to look inward. Those would be the things where I’d be like, How strapped are ya? Because you might be better off having somebody do some temp work just for a short period of time, stop to take a step back, and evaluate some other things. Those are the elephants. You’re talking about the elephants in the room right there, Danna, and being able to recognize what we are willing to incorporate right now for where we are. One of the things that I hear in the work that you and I do, people want me to come in, and they think I can change everything. The answer is no, I can’t change anything. I can only facilitate and create a program to educate to allow that change to occur within an organization.
 The other thing that people think, in all organizations, both profit and nonprofit, I get a lot of work done from people who have just done a rebrand, thinking that rebranding will actually solve the problems that we are unclear about what we stand for. You probably are unclear about what you stand for, but the way you look and describe yourself doesn’t matter. It’s a Band-Aid, isn’t it?
 Danna: I love the fact that you’re talking about this because we are all about education. What I teach my people is you can’t operate in a vacuum. You don’t have all the answers. You have to surround yourself with that team that will be able to help you reach those goals. You have to surround yourself with those people who will be able to say, “You’re off base.”
 Jess: I keep pointing with two different colored pens because these are the notes that I take. Anybody listening is going to be like, “What is she talking about?” I have two pens to take notes on every conversation that I have because there are things I want in one color and other things in another color. All of my notes have been written on before by a third color. If I hold up pens at you, it just means I’m excited. Yes!
 Nonetheless, I hear what you’re saying. You’re right. It is about education. You said something that made me think about a program that we have. We talk about ThinkTime. This is a combination of words, think and time, that might be heard in the same sentence, that are squished together with no spaces. ThinkTime. This is something that we do at Red Direction. We have a process. How do I, as the steward of this mission that we’re on, whether it’s an entire organization, whether it’s a business unit, whether it’s my particular role, how do I in the stewardship of my position have time to actually allow all the chatter to get out? Because all that chatter has to get out to have new creative thoughts. More importantly, ThinkTime, a lot of people are like great. I like a whole day; however, I don’t use a whole day. I use a half day to get started. I use four hours, once a week for four hours, closing everything out. This is how that system typically goes. I am going to give you all the steps. You guys can play with this as much as you want.
 That is first, put it in a calendar, and guard it fiercely. Four hours, one time a week. The first month, the first four, maybe the first eight, you are going to think they are useless. They will feel useless. All you will want to do is catch up on email. All you want to do is clear up the clutter on your desk. All you want to do is return those phone calls. All you want to do is write out a report that needed to happen or think about reports. It takes some time. But after about eight to ten sessions of four hours, all of a sudden, you sit down. I remember this so clearly the first time I did this. This is going to work; this is so great! You sit down, and it’s like, Okay, I actually see the Red Direction vision. I actually see the actions that we’re taking right now. I can just experience what that looks like and have an idea of what problems we’re facing right now, where we’re doing really well, and then what are the things that we could be doing better or different? When we have that space outside of our ThinkTime is when we go, Let’s break it down into a problem. Do I have a problem here? What’s that problem? Let’s go through those four steps of problem-solving. Then we can go bright. When we get to the options, we get to make a decision. Being confident in a decision comes from not running around rapid, not thinking or knowing we are never going to have all the answers no matter how much information you know about it, but we spent the time upfront to decide what the decision was, what the problem is we are going to solve. We are evaluating the path, not just a solution, but the path to betterment, the path to what we want next.
 The more we get to do that, that’s the second piece, the more we get to practice those steps, the more confident we become in our decisions, and we can make them quicker. We can evaluate and get rid of options that don’t work right now.
 Tell me this, Danna, and whomever is sitting next to you, and Russ. When you are sitting here and looking at all these problems you’re looking at all these things that are going on. I can choose any one of them. I don’t know what this means; you have too many options. Does that happen to you? Occasionally, sometimes, all the time.
 Danna: Oh yes, even as a strategist, I find that I have to take a step back and decide, Okay, which one do I need to focus on right now? First of all. Secondly, what is the fastest way to come into a solution? By taking that step back sometimes and evaluating what is my talent, what is it, my talent that can help me come up with that solution? If I can’t find the talent within me to provide a solution, then I have a resource of people around me who I reach out to. I am not afraid to bring them in. You can’t operate in a vacuum. You said this. Our capacity as an entrepreneur only extends so far.
 Jess: That’s right.
 Danna: This happens to me. Jose Belen here, has a new nonprofit that he is starting called Mission Zero. Great nonprofit. We happen to be meeting Hugh here so we can get some tips and learn and stuff like that. Do you have any questions for her?
 Jose Belen: No. Actually, this has been very informative. We have been around for about six months. Mission Zero is an organization dedicated to helping veteran suicide. That was part of the initial invasion into Iraq in 2003. Since I was honorably discharged in 2005, I have been fighting PTSD and suicidal thoughts. Every 80 minutes, there is a veteran somewhere in America committing suicide. We are dedicated to making a difference. So Mission Zero hopefully one day will stop veteran suicides. We appreciate any support and like-minded individuals. Thank you.
 Danna: So they took the advice that you are giving. They have been surrounding themselves with the people who can help them get this off the ground rather than trying to do it all themselves.
 Hugh: Jess, you probably know more about me than I know about you, but I’m quite amazed at the synchronicity of what you are talking about. I will give it back to Russell. I hijacked his questioning here. But it’s the synchronicity of what you are talking about and what we teach at SynerVision. This whole culture piece is core to transformational leadership and how we empower leaders. Thank you for such a passion around this. Love it. So, Russell, remember the old age and mental condition? I will give it back to you.
 Russell: Almost escaped without that. He loves that one. That is his trademark thing. I don’t know why. It’s not true. He likes it. He entertains himself with that story. He’s going to find out as he gets to spend more time with you and learn more about you how remarkable you are. We haven’t known each other very long, but I love what you’re doing. What you’re talking about is creating safe spaces and collaboration. Collaboration is something that I think people are slowly starting to get. It’s a really important piece of everything that we do. It’s about people. I just had a mastermind this morning with other business leaders who were talking to me about helping me and my business. It doesn’t matter how many people you meet. A lot of times, there is that little piece of us that resists. Talk to us a little bit about how you help businesspeople, nonprofit leaders, some of the tools that you use to help them face that inner resistance. That is the one thing an organization, it’s all about people. We have this built-in resistance. Part of it is to change and some other things. Talk a little bit how you equip people to deal with that resistance and what they should look for.
 Jess: Such a loaded question. There are like 212 ways—that is when water boils—we could start this conversation. I think ultimately the point is that water will boil. If we resist long enough, we have no choice, just like water in a pan on a stove. It doesn’t matter how long you leave it there. It will eventually reach 212 degrees and boil. I feel like when, so tools.
 Let’s talk about tools. A lot of the tools that we teach are soft skills. The reason we teach soft skills is because I can come up with a process just like all of the other processes out there. Some would be good, and some would not be as good as the other ones out there. We all work differently. When we all work differently, and we are thinking about how we do what we do, we don’t give ourselves grace. We resist what our own strength is and how we work.
 We are going to go back and use me as an example. There were five people in my family, three kids and two adults. Every Sunday, we would sit at the dining room table after dinner and we would look at the whole next week. If it wasn’t on the calendar, it did not happen. It was the time to ask questions, get permission, do all of this stuff. I grew up with this time management concept. I grew up with this concept of, Okay, we know who the decision-maker is, the person who can drive. If it doesn’t fit in their calendar, it can’t work, so I have to make a really good case that my stuff is more important than my sister’s.
 This happens in business. This same thing happens in business. We get together, whether we are using time management skills or not, it comes down to how persuasive are we, how passionate are we? Can we clearly communicate the beginning, middle, and end of an idea to move it forward? Some people use time. I am really good at time and time blocking, and ThinkTime is a part of that. I am also really adept, and the programs we teach around soft skills are also around time management because we can only scale so much. We can only scale so much with one person. Each person can only scale so much. The whole purpose of being in an organization is to be able to understand what is my purpose, how do I leverage my time? What is their purpose, and how do we leverage their time? Have a good time doing it. Enjoy being together. You mentioned the word “ collaboration.” I think collaboration fits in a lot of different ways here. We are talking about- By the way, everybody who thinks collaboration- I am going to stop what I was going to say and talk about collaboration.
 I have a bad taste in my mouth when somebody says collaboration because I remember when, and we can all do this, I remember a time I was on a collaborative cross-functional team, and I did all the work. Now you know- You’re a driver. You’re going to do what it takes. Right? So we have to let that go. Those of us who feel that way, and other people are like, Ooh, collaboration. I give ideas, give ideas, give ideas, and I don’t have to do anything. Let me just be an idea machine. Well, that only works to a point, too. Then there are the people who will take different kinds of action and throw in what some of us would call kinks in the wheel, but they are trying to make it better. They are poking holes in it. Can we get this to a point where we are seamless, we have something that can stick that we all agree on? Those people are really necessary, too. When we embrace not everybody does well, not everybody thinks well, not everybody wants to be the devil’s advocate, then we get to go, “Hey, we need everybody.” We can do this in a different way. We can have a conversation. Collaboration starts with a conversation. What are we doing? What can our parts be? How can we move this forward together?
 Hugh: Jess, you have opened up a lot of topics.
 Jess: I know, right?
 Hugh: You’re in here because Russell invited you. I have to work hard so I can keep up with him. He’s a smart dude. What I’m going to throw out here is I’d like to take a couple of these themes and come back around and dig into some of these themes a little deeper. You have a whole lot of stuff to unpack here. We are coming to the top of the hour for this particular show. I want to talk about the sponsor moment here that makes it possible and give you a chance to wrap people’s heads around some of the major themes you want to leave us with. Then we will let Russell close us out. Does that sound good to you guys? Russ has been really diligent in helping us pull this together today with a whole lot of technical issues.
 *Sponsor message for Rock Paper Simple*
 Jess, how would you like to wrap this up and leave folks with? What is a profound thought you want to leave people with before Russ closes out this great session?
 Jess: All right, we just upped the ante. The most profound thought you want to leave us with, Hugh. There is no low bars here. Everybody, I have listened to a few of these in preparation for this conversation. Of course, I know Hugh, and I know Russ. There is no going back; there is only forward. I think that that’s really a key piece of what culture and what we’re talking about when we are talking about these elements of culture is that we are always moving forward. We can embrace it. We can resist it. Either way, it’s coming. We can make it more fun. We can make it more effective, and we can serve more people when we get out of our own way and we recognize our own self and how we can show up and invite others to continue to join our party.
 Russell: Great stuff. In conversation with what’s happening with anything that I touch has to start in the mirror. That is the X factor. That is the one thing I can actually do something about. The willingness to actually look at where we are as individuals energetically makes a big difference. We can find some compassion for ourselves in there and in other people and put ourselves in their shoes and say, “How can we create an experience? How can we get to the larger point? What are the things we need to put on the shelf to make this thing work the way it is built to work?” That is really where it starts.
 Jess, as always, it’s been a pleasure. Danna, Hugh, all of our friends down at CEO Space, the July forum, wonderful organization. Being a part of that has changed my life. I have a contact in veteran suicide that is actually somebody that has been in Texas shining the spotlight on it. His primary thing is to get their stories captured. We will cycle back around and talk about that again.
 In the meantime, I’d like to thank all of our listeners out there every week who join us here at The Nonprofit Exchange. We got a really good guest next week. He is going to be talking about conversations. He has an incredible tool that can help us look at the way we have conversations on a personal and professional level. You don’t want to miss this because he has got a brilliant tool called Conversations. Join us next week for that. Hugh.
 Hugh: Thank you, Russ. Thank you, Jess. It’s been a great session. Thank you so much.
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        <![CDATA[ <p>Staying in business can be difficult at times. Critical skills that are required to build a business exist and grow year after year. All business owners, at one time or another, find themselves struggling to keep clients (retention), to keep up with what customers want from the company (experience), and to add people (increase products).</p> <p>Over the last 20 years, Jess Dewell has worked on many of these problems with companies and clients. When there is a chasm to cross, she points it out and cultivates the team to figure out how to build a way across.</p>  <p>Professional and thoughtful, she brings to the table.</p> <p><strong>Transcript of the Interview</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings. Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> We are into the fourth year of this now, Russ. Russ, I know we’re on an audio podcast, but I don’t see your smiling face. All I see is a picture. One of your better pictures.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Well, I’ll fix that. I should be live.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There you are. I’m traveling today. I’m at a hotel in Orlando. We have a live audience here. We are going to be watching with bated breath, and we will come in with a few questions. We do have a little background noise, so I’m going to mute myself. It’s probably a popular notion with some people, so we will mute our end so it will be quieter. Russ has got some really good questions for what I think is going to be an amazing interview today with- Jess, you know me, so I am just getting acquainted with you. I am going to pay attention.</p> <p><strong>Jess Dewell:</strong> It’s great how that happened. You meet somebody, and they tell you all about you and how you think, yet you have never met them before because of the personality and the ways that we get to communicate. I totally understand being in that place.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. Tell us about yourself and how come you do what you do. Then Russell will take it on and ask you some really interesting questions.</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> That sounds great. I am Jess Dewell. I founded Red Direction 14 years ago. It started out as something slightly different than what it became. It became building frameworks for resilience. What came up on the radio show that I host, which was live streamed right before we are live streaming here, we were talking about bounciness. The more struggle we face, the more that we fall down, the more risks we are willing to take, we get bouncier. I love the concept of that and how that fits into businesses. Businesses can get that concept of bounciness. Pick ourselves up together, and go forward together. The last seven years have really been dialed into what we do for organizations that are growing and changing. They are in these critical points of development, and their leadership got them so far, their skills got them so far, and now it’s time to infuse them with more. Turn them upside down. Look at them in different ways to maximize the work flow, learning, and experience that already exists to go forward with grace and determination and whatever words you use to describe your companies. That is what we do over here at Red Direction.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s all about establishing the great culture. There are a lot of things that go into culture. For our audience, what does culture mean to you in the sense that applies to organizations?</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> You could look it up on the Internet and get the definition that Google or whatever your search engine is will tell you. I define culture as how we work together, and the strength with which we are able to work together and its effectiveness.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yeah. What are some elements of culture that make organizations successful?</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> What makes an organization successful? I am getting cues that your volume, Russ, is not as high as our audience would like. Since I got that message, I am going to pass it on to you right here. Will you repeat the question?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What are some of the elements that go into culture that make an organization successful?</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> Are you ready for this? Are you really ready for this, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Bring it on.</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> People, people, people. There might be a few more p’s, and we will just replace them with people and people and people. It’s the culture. It’s what do we look at, how do we react, and preferably, how do we respond, and of course, how are the other people that we are surrounding ourselves with doing those things? And an awareness of the fact that we play off of each other.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Because you work with a lot of organizations of all types, what do you find are the biggest disconnects in organizations that have problems culturally?</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> Are you ready?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I am ready.</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> People, people, people, people, people. So really, it’s we think we are doing one thing, and we are being perceived as something different. There is a break in our communication. We think somebody is doing something, but we never actually asked the clarifying question. Even some people go, “I have a dumb question.” You know what? The dumb question that goes unasked just leads to bigger misunderstandings, so might as well ask that and get rid of the qualifier at the same time. “I have a question. Did I understand this right?” We are thinking of culture, and we are thinking of how to work together as a team. We all have different reasons for being in the roles that we are at. A wise man once told me, “The people who work here choose with their own two feet every single day to come to work for us.” I thought that was really a fabulous thing, and understanding that everybody has a different reason for being here, to work together. Yes, we have all agreed to this goal; however, if we haven’t created some sort of an awareness of how all of us fit into that end goal, we end up getting bumps and scratches and slowdowns and stalls and U-turns also.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Let’s look at the term “rules.” My good friend Dr. Hal Dibner talked with me the last time I saw him, we were actually talking about rules and how to move people to action. There are a lot of internal rules that each of us has that shapes the way we approach things and the way that we live. I think these rules can become internalized in the culture with an organization. What are some rules that you have seen that have become part of the culture of organizations that have hindered their progress?</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> I call those “elephants in the room.” The big elephants in the room. One of the things that Red Directions’ programs are really good at is finding the elephants in the room, pointing them out, setting up a little station, and inviting them to break them. Just being aware of what elephants are in the room. Another phrase might be “unwritten agreements.” We have done it this way. It’s worked all right, so this is the way that we do it. Whether that’s the case, or we are avoiding something, the elephants in the room, either way, when left unexplored, it can cause so many big problems. I have been a part of a company that has imploded because of that. I have also seen companies really unfortunately breed distrust and really feel fear around, “Am I actually safe in my role?” because of the unwritten agreements and insecurities and unknowns they cause. All that gets in the way of decision-making, which really when we are in business, is the ultimate goal: make decisions, nonprofit or otherwise, move toward an objective, make decisions, move toward an objective. Hit those goals and those signposts along the way.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think that the way people view their work really impacts the culture. When organizations get stuck, in my experience, a lot of people don’t really like to be told what’s wrong. At what point do you find that organizations have hit a place where they are willing to have those conversations? How much does it generally take in your experience for somebody to reach that point?</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> It really varies. I have witnessed some other outlying symptoms if you will. If we were to look at symptoms that you are on your way down that rollercoaster, and you’re not sure if there is an up at the other side, is that everybody is tired. Everybody is behind. They are unable to keep up with the things that they have going on, with the commitments that they have made, and it becomes a drag. Those are the types of things that allow us to miss other cues. We are turned off from actually using our external perception, and it’s only stuck inside here. It can manifest other ways, too, besides the “I’m stuck,” “I’m overwhelmed,” or “I can’t meet my deadlines.” People leave. I’m burned out. People leave. “This is not what I thought it was going to be.” People leave, and then they are talking about their experience. They don’t talk about their experience until they leave. Nobody inside knew because there was a gap between each of the people, and there was “seemingly” to have a connection, but it was actually missing or had been broken.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> A lot of our work focuses around leaders and how leaders interact and work with people and a common problem is leaders that overfunction.</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> They take on a lot of things rather than train people. They find that it’s “quicker” just to do it myself than explain how to do it. Sometimes there is a fear of letting go of some control, not trusting people to do it. But if you bring people on to your team, you hire people because of the skills, knowledge, and abilities that will serve you, they have talent, and letting people actually do what it is that they do is a little difficult for leaders. That can get grounded in the culture. That creates burnout because you have a few high performers who are not being built to be better leaders, and they are just trying to do things instead of spreading them out, delegating, and building. The leadership skills of other people. We see that in nonprofits. Are you seeing that with-</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> In every organization. Every organization is susceptible to that. It’s interesting because yes, we hire for skills, knowledge, and ability. Most of the time, in most processes for bringing people on, what is left out, or what doesn’t have enough focus in that interview and onboarding process is what we mean when we say whatever we value. If service to a specific group, serving an underrepresented group in some way, if somebody comes on and they have the skills, the knowledge, and the ability, but they are only using this as a stepping stone, and they are exactly what you want for the job, part of the conversation becomes, “We know this is just a stepping stone on your path. Are you able to buy in? What do you like? What are we disconnected on what you’re doing while you’re here? Do you understand with where you’re going how this actually helps you get there?” You know what? A lot of people don’t want to face the fact that they are hiring someone who is going to leave. However, if we bring it up in the conversation, and we are talking about this, and it’s part of what we believe in, we know- We know we’re not going to do what we’re doing forever. We know we haven’t done what we’re doing forever. We have all had different experiences in the past. So why not just put that on the table? Then it’s never a surprise. Then it’s your performance reviews, your check-ins we’re having along the way, the conversations we are having before, after, and during meetings can still revolve around what are we doing in this organization? What is our mission? What is each of our parts in that while we are here? That type of collaboration is what is going to make somebody want to stay, but also it will prepare them to get them to where they want to go. As leaders, as employers, anybody with staff, it is our job to embrace and to love and get that person where they want to go because maybe this is the place, maybe it’s not, but we can do really well for them, for us, for our community, for our donors, for the people that we serve because of that small thing: having that type of conversation up front.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Hey, Russell. We are having trouble hearing you.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s all about growth. That better? It’s all about growth. If you have a conversation about values, it’s important for both individuals and the organization to understand what it is that people want to get out of a relationship that you have. This is how you attract people, whether they are working for you, volunteering for you, coming to work as a staff member, coming to serve on your board. It’s having congruent values that will drive the day. The idea of growth is something that is fundamental to everything. To get better at what you do, you increase that level of support that you get. Culturally, with nonprofits, one of the things aside from the fact that you have some leaders that may overfunction, maybe they haven’t thought through all of their processes or systems or how they can actually get better at creating an experience because they are more effective and efficient at delivering their programs. Talk a little bit about your experience around that and some of the things that you would help people work around that.</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> I wouldn’t say work around, I would say work with and strengthen. The reason is that we all have a strength. When we can put a stake in the ground and say, “This is what I stand for,” wherever I work, whoever I work with, I know what I stand for in general. That allows me to have a guidepost when I show up in an organization and when I am working with other people. If other people are floundering around and are not sure, we put on that lens. What is important to me? What is my purpose here? What is my purpose in this situation? Maybe not my life purpose, but in this situation. How can I bridge that gap to move things forward? Those are the types of skills that we develop, programs that we create. The biggest reason for that is experience. Until we do it, we don’t know if we are good at it. Until we do it, we don’t know how to apply our personal strengths to the work that we’re doing. When we find our strength and can focus everything through that, it becomes easier as managers, as directors, to find the strengths in others and be curious and be willing to try a few things here to be curious with others to find their strengths as well. Maybe it’s a strength. A lot of people know that they can stay behind an idea. In a nonprofit, I come to work for a nonprofit, I volunteer at a nonprofit, I give money to a nonprofit because I care about the idea they are working on. When it comes to actually doing the infrastructure, taking the action to make all that possible-</p> <p>You mentioned your values, how do we bring all of our skills together to get something done? But also you talked about processes and systems. Processes and systems are great on paper. As soon as you add people to them, you add what they are thinking in that moment, what their past was, what their dreams are, and what is on their mind right now in that situation. It may not be those things that are most important to working on an organization to develop it. Processes and systems are really impacted by all of the things that we care about, all of the things that we face. I am all about efficient systems, efficient processes. However, when we stop, when we weave what we care about, how we do our work together here at this organization, allows us to then be able to have a deeper conversation, a quicker conversation, which improves efficiency in a whole different way than just pushing the levers of a process.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> How about a question from Florida?</p> <p><strong>Danna Olivo:</strong> Yeah, Jess.</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> Bring it.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Bring it on. It’s funny that we’re talking about this today because- My name is Danna Olivo, and I am a business strategist. I work with early-stage micro-companies and medium companies. I work on those processes, the systems, and things like that. But one of the things that was really fascinating to me was you were talking about communication styles and hiring and things like that, talking about skills and values. One of the things that a lot of companies don’t take into consideration when hiring are the behavioral and cultural characteristics that are inbred in the people they are looking to hire and making sure that those cultural characteristics match the organization. Therefore, in order to do that, what we have done is we are trying to make a concerted effort to try and match those cultures to the behavioral characteristics to get a better understanding of their fit within the organization.</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> May I ask you a question?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> When you’re thinking about that, that means an organization really has to know.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> The whole thing just dropped.</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> That means an organization has to really know where they stand. They understand that what they’re doing is already working. Do you find that a company is going to need some other help and some other work actually figuring out where they stand as an organization versus just being able to put this on top of what already exists?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Yes, I do find that part of the whole process is we have to make sure that they have those working systems and methodologies in place. Part of that process involves bringing the team on that will work with them in order to do that. If they aren’t centered around the same cultural values that the company has set in place, you are going to end up with a divided approach to these systems and methodologies. Does that make sense?</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> It makes complete sense. In fact, sometimes, in an existing organization that is going back, they are going, “We are having this problem hiring the right people. We are having this problem keeping the people we want who have the skills in our roles.” When we get to that, it’s interesting because people are always like, it’s the people. It’s the talent we are facing. They forget to look inward. Those would be the things where I’d be like, How strapped are ya? Because you might be better off having somebody do some temp work just for a short period of time, stop to take a step back, and evaluate some other things. Those are the elephants. You’re talking about the elephants in the room right there, Danna, and being able to recognize what we are willing to incorporate right now for where we are. One of the things that I hear in the work that you and I do, people want me to come in, and they think I can change everything. The answer is no, I can’t change anything. I can only facilitate and create a program to educate to allow that change to occur within an organization.</p> <p>The other thing that people think, in all organizations, both profit and nonprofit, I get a lot of work done from people who have just done a rebrand, thinking that rebranding will actually solve the problems that we are unclear about what we stand for. You probably are unclear about what you stand for, but the way you look and describe yourself doesn’t matter. It’s a Band-Aid, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> I love the fact that you’re talking about this because we are all about education. What I teach my people is you can’t operate in a vacuum. You don’t have all the answers. You have to surround yourself with that team that will be able to help you reach those goals. You have to surround yourself with those people who will be able to say, “You’re off base.”</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> I keep pointing with two different colored pens because these are the notes that I take. Anybody listening is going to be like, “What is she talking about?” I have two pens to take notes on every conversation that I have because there are things I want in one color and other things in another color. All of my notes have been written on before by a third color. If I hold up pens at you, it just means I’m excited. Yes!</p> <p>Nonetheless, I hear what you’re saying. You’re right. It is about education. You said something that made me think about a program that we have. We talk about ThinkTime. This is a combination of words, think and time, that might be heard in the same sentence, that are squished together with no spaces. ThinkTime. This is something that we do at Red Direction. We have a process. How do I, as the steward of this mission that we’re on, whether it’s an entire organization, whether it’s a business unit, whether it’s my particular role, how do I in the stewardship of my position have time to actually allow all the chatter to get out? Because all that chatter has to get out to have new creative thoughts. More importantly, ThinkTime, a lot of people are like great. I like a whole day; however, I don’t use a whole day. I use a half day to get started. I use four hours, once a week for four hours, closing everything out. This is how that system typically goes. I am going to give you all the steps. You guys can play with this as much as you want.</p> <p>That is first, put it in a calendar, and guard it fiercely. Four hours, one time a week. The first month, the first four, maybe the first eight, you are going to think they are useless. They will feel useless. All you will want to do is catch up on email. All you want to do is clear up the clutter on your desk. All you want to do is return those phone calls. All you want to do is write out a report that needed to happen or think about reports. It takes some time. But after about eight to ten sessions of four hours, all of a sudden, you sit down. I remember this so clearly the first time I did this. This is going to work; this is so great! You sit down, and it’s like, Okay, I actually see the Red Direction vision. I actually see the actions that we’re taking right now. I can just experience what that looks like and have an idea of what problems we’re facing right now, where we’re doing really well, and then what are the things that we could be doing better or different? When we have that space outside of our ThinkTime is when we go, Let’s break it down into a problem. Do I have a problem here? What’s that problem? Let’s go through those four steps of problem-solving. Then we can go bright. When we get to the options, we get to make a decision. Being confident in a decision comes from not running around rapid, not thinking or knowing we are never going to have all the answers no matter how much information you know about it, but we spent the time upfront to decide what the decision was, what the problem is we are going to solve. We are evaluating the path, not just a solution, but the path to betterment, the path to what we want next.</p> <p>The more we get to do that, that’s the second piece, the more we get to practice those steps, the more confident we become in our decisions, and we can make them quicker. We can evaluate and get rid of options that don’t work right now.</p> <p>Tell me this, Danna, and whomever is sitting next to you, and Russ. When you are sitting here and looking at all these problems you’re looking at all these things that are going on. I can choose any one of them. I don’t know what this means; you have too many options. Does that happen to you? Occasionally, sometimes, all the time.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Oh yes, even as a strategist, I find that I have to take a step back and decide, Okay, which one do I need to focus on right now? First of all. Secondly, what is the fastest way to come into a solution? By taking that step back sometimes and evaluating what is my talent, what is it, my talent that can help me come up with that solution? If I can’t find the talent within me to provide a solution, then I have a resource of people around me who I reach out to. I am not afraid to bring them in. You can’t operate in a vacuum. You said this. Our capacity as an entrepreneur only extends so far.</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> That’s right.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> This happens to me. Jose Belen here, has a new nonprofit that he is starting called Mission Zero. Great nonprofit. We happen to be meeting Hugh here so we can get some tips and learn and stuff like that. Do you have any questions for her?</p> <p><strong>Jose Belen:</strong> No. Actually, this has been very informative. We have been around for about six months. Mission Zero is an organization dedicated to helping veteran suicide. That was part of the initial invasion into Iraq in 2003. Since I was honorably discharged in 2005, I have been fighting PTSD and suicidal thoughts. Every 80 minutes, there is a veteran somewhere in America committing suicide. We are dedicated to making a difference. So Mission Zero hopefully one day will stop veteran suicides. We appreciate any support and like-minded individuals. Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> So they took the advice that you are giving. They have been surrounding themselves with the people who can help them get this off the ground rather than trying to do it all themselves.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Jess, you probably know more about me than I know about you, but I’m quite amazed at the synchronicity of what you are talking about. I will give it back to Russell. I hijacked his questioning here. But it’s the synchronicity of what you are talking about and what we teach at SynerVision. This whole culture piece is core to transformational leadership and how we empower leaders. Thank you for such a passion around this. Love it. So, Russell, remember the old age and mental condition? I will give it back to you.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Almost escaped without that. He loves that one. That is his trademark thing. I don’t know why. It’s not true. He likes it. He entertains himself with that story. He’s going to find out as he gets to spend more time with you and learn more about you how remarkable you are. We haven’t known each other very long, but I love what you’re doing. What you’re talking about is creating safe spaces and collaboration. Collaboration is something that I think people are slowly starting to get. It’s a really important piece of everything that we do. It’s about people. I just had a mastermind this morning with other business leaders who were talking to me about helping me and my business. It doesn’t matter how many people you meet. A lot of times, there is that little piece of us that resists. Talk to us a little bit about how you help businesspeople, nonprofit leaders, some of the tools that you use to help them face that inner resistance. That is the one thing an organization, it’s all about people. We have this built-in resistance. Part of it is to change and some other things. Talk a little bit how you equip people to deal with that resistance and what they should look for.</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> Such a loaded question. There are like 212 ways—that is when water boils—we could start this conversation. I think ultimately the point is that water will boil. If we resist long enough, we have no choice, just like water in a pan on a stove. It doesn’t matter how long you leave it there. It will eventually reach 212 degrees and boil. I feel like when, so tools.</p> <p>Let’s talk about tools. A lot of the tools that we teach are soft skills. The reason we teach soft skills is because I can come up with a process just like all of the other processes out there. Some would be good, and some would not be as good as the other ones out there. We all work differently. When we all work differently, and we are thinking about how we do what we do, we don’t give ourselves grace. We resist what our own strength is and how we work.</p> <p>We are going to go back and use me as an example. There were five people in my family, three kids and two adults. Every Sunday, we would sit at the dining room table after dinner and we would look at the whole next week. If it wasn’t on the calendar, it did not happen. It was the time to ask questions, get permission, do all of this stuff. I grew up with this time management concept. I grew up with this concept of, Okay, we know who the decision-maker is, the person who can drive. If it doesn’t fit in their calendar, it can’t work, so I have to make a really good case that my stuff is more important than my sister’s.</p> <p>This happens in business. This same thing happens in business. We get together, whether we are using time management skills or not, it comes down to how persuasive are we, how passionate are we? Can we clearly communicate the beginning, middle, and end of an idea to move it forward? Some people use time. I am really good at time and time blocking, and ThinkTime is a part of that. I am also really adept, and the programs we teach around soft skills are also around time management because we can only scale so much. We can only scale so much with one person. Each person can only scale so much. The whole purpose of being in an organization is to be able to understand what is my purpose, how do I leverage my time? What is their purpose, and how do we leverage their time? Have a good time doing it. Enjoy being together. You mentioned the word “ collaboration.” I think collaboration fits in a lot of different ways here. We are talking about- By the way, everybody who thinks collaboration- I am going to stop what I was going to say and talk about collaboration.</p> <p>I have a bad taste in my mouth when somebody says collaboration because I remember when, and we can all do this, I remember a time I was on a collaborative cross-functional team, and I did all the work. Now you know- You’re a driver. You’re going to do what it takes. Right? So we have to let that go. Those of us who feel that way, and other people are like, Ooh, collaboration. I give ideas, give ideas, give ideas, and I don’t have to do anything. Let me just be an idea machine. Well, that only works to a point, too. Then there are the people who will take different kinds of action and throw in what some of us would call kinks in the wheel, but they are trying to make it better. They are poking holes in it. Can we get this to a point where we are seamless, we have something that can stick that we all agree on? Those people are really necessary, too. When we embrace not everybody does well, not everybody thinks well, not everybody wants to be the devil’s advocate, then we get to go, “Hey, we need everybody.” We can do this in a different way. We can have a conversation. Collaboration starts with a conversation. What are we doing? What can our parts be? How can we move this forward together?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Jess, you have opened up a lot of topics.</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> I know, right?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re in here because Russell invited you. I have to work hard so I can keep up with him. He’s a smart dude. What I’m going to throw out here is I’d like to take a couple of these themes and come back around and dig into some of these themes a little deeper. You have a whole lot of stuff to unpack here. We are coming to the top of the hour for this particular show. I want to talk about the sponsor moment here that makes it possible and give you a chance to wrap people’s heads around some of the major themes you want to leave us with. Then we will let Russell close us out. Does that sound good to you guys? Russ has been really diligent in helping us pull this together today with a whole lot of technical issues.</p> <p>*Sponsor message for Rock Paper Simple*</p> <p>Jess, how would you like to wrap this up and leave folks with? What is a profound thought you want to leave people with before Russ closes out this great session?</p> <p><strong>Jess:</strong> All right, we just upped the ante. The most profound thought you want to leave us with, Hugh. There is no low bars here. Everybody, I have listened to a few of these in preparation for this conversation. Of course, I know Hugh, and I know Russ. There is no going back; there is only forward. I think that that’s really a key piece of what culture and what we’re talking about when we are talking about these elements of culture is that we are always moving forward. We can embrace it. We can resist it. Either way, it’s coming. We can make it more fun. We can make it more effective, and we can serve more people when we get out of our own way and we recognize our own self and how we can show up and invite others to continue to join our party.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Great stuff. In conversation with what’s happening with anything that I touch has to start in the mirror. That is the X factor. That is the one thing I can actually do something about. The willingness to actually look at where we are as individuals energetically makes a big difference. We can find some compassion for ourselves in there and in other people and put ourselves in their shoes and say, “How can we create an experience? How can we get to the larger point? What are the things we need to put on the shelf to make this thing work the way it is built to work?” That is really where it starts.</p> <p>Jess, as always, it’s been a pleasure. Danna, Hugh, all of our friends down at CEO Space, the July forum, wonderful organization. Being a part of that has changed my life. I have a contact in veteran suicide that is actually somebody that has been in Texas shining the spotlight on it. His primary thing is to get their stories captured. We will cycle back around and talk about that again.</p> <p>In the meantime, I’d like to thank all of our listeners out there every week who join us here at <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> We got a really good guest next week. He is going to be talking about conversations. He has an incredible tool that can help us look at the way we have conversations on a personal and professional level. You don’t want to miss this because he has got a brilliant tool called Conversations. Join us next week for that. Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you, Russ. Thank you, Jess. It’s been a great session. Thank you so much.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Using An Effective Integrated Marketing Communication Mix In Nonprofit Organizations</title>
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      <description>Using An Effective Integrated Marketing Communication Mix In Nonprofit Organizations
 Clark Greer is the founder of Clark Greer Communications, LLC, a consulting firm that focuses on assisting nonprofit organizations with marketing communications and public relations. He holds a Master’s Degree in Broadcast Journalism from the University of Southern California, and a doctorate in Communication Studies from Bowling Green State University. Clark’s full-time job for the past 20 years has been as a communication professor specializing in public relations, strategic communication, TV news, and communication research. In addition, he and research colleagues have published nearly 20 studies in academic journals, and have presented more than two dozen papers at research conferences.
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, everyone. Welcome to this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. Today, we’re talking about that topic we call marketing. Marketing is, the older I get, the more complex it gets, but the more important it gets. It’s an area that we do not regard with enough importance, those of us that run nonprofit organizations. Russell, how are you doing today?
 Russell Dennis: Beautiful day out here in Denver, Colorado. Partly cloudy. There is lots of activity taking place out here. We have folks that have been talking to me who are running nonprofits and are struggling to get the word out on what they’re doing. It’s hard to get support if nobody knows what you’re doing. I’m glad that Clark is here to share with us some ways to increase that visibility. That’s what it’s all about, isn’t it, Clark?
 Clark Greer: Yeah, that’s right. That sounds nice. We’re out here in Virginia. I wish I was in a little bit of a cooler spot right now.
 Hugh: We were out on the parkway night before last, and it was in the mid-50s. It was luscious. Clark, we like to impose upon our guests to define who they are. Tell a little bit about yourself. You have this organization that you run to do marketing specifically targeted to nonprofits. You and I, however, met in one of those nonprofits where you serve on the board. You and I met there, and we started conversations which led to this interview. Talk about yourself and what has led you to this place to do this very specific thing that you do for nonprofits.
 Clark: This is like the digest size of this instead of a full version. I actually started out in radio when I was in high school. It clicked with me to do communication and spend several years on radio, doing radio news. Ended up ultimately picking up a graduate degree in broadcast journalism from a big university on the west coast. Ended up working in corporate communications, advertising, public relations, marketing communication, organizational communication, different types of organizations, both for-profit and nonprofit. About 20 years ago, I started teaching higher education. That is my full-time gig is teaching in a university. I have always liked to do things for organizations. When my wife and I moved to this area, I said, “Should I work at the orchestra, symphony orchestra that does anything marketing or organizational comm.” We went to a couple of concerts, made some connections, and that’s where I am today.
 Hugh: Love it. It took me only a couple of conversations to determine that you had a very unique perspective on marketing. What is the name of your organization?
 Clark: Something that is not real creative, but it’s Clark Greer Communications. It was easy to come up with it. Then I could put my name out there, and it’s easy to remember that. For me, as I get older, remembering the name of the company is a lot easier.
 Hugh: You’re a professor. You teach communications.
 Clark: I do. I have taught for about 20 years in three different institutions in the country. I taught interactive media when the web was just getting going back in the ‘90s. I have taught public relations and strategic communication, and television news. A little bit of everything.
 Hugh: We are going to explore this in the interview at some point. I had a pivot in my understanding of how you construct campaigns to let people know about the organization. We are specifically focused on the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra at the moment. When I moved here, people said, “Oh, we have an orchestra?” There was a big gap in awareness, even though the orchestra has paid for ads and they have a Facebook page and all of the things we customarily do. There is a large portion of the community that didn’t know about it. You were interviewing me about strategy. I had just recently done the first planning session for the board of the symphony. You interviewed me, and you said, “I want to give value to others in our newsletter and publicity.” Speak to that element a minute. We will unpack that throughout the interview because that is a unique perspective.
 Clark: I think the temptation is in market communication or PR or whatever we are doing is to make connections with our constituents and followers. In the case of the symphony or other performance organizations, it will be people attending or donating. Organizations have different types of needs. One temptation is we are going to advertise it, and we are going to say, “Here we are, come to whatever, or donate.” If it’s a nonprofit that does construction in a community for building, it’s “Come and see us.” I think what’s really important is to help the organization be relevant to the people they are trying to reach. That is what we are trying to do in different ways. A lot of it is promotion because we are trying to have everybody in this area know who the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra is. That is a big chore because it isn’t just the community, but there is surrounding communities. A lot of things we have to deal with. We are trying to give value back to people, so instead of just saying, “Come to our concerts,” it’s “How can we serve you as a community and an organization? What are the things you need that we can help you get better at?”
 Hugh: That is such a different perspective. Here is a mistake I see commonly in social media. “Buy my stuff. Get my program. Let me coach you.” They are pushing their stuff rather than saying how I can provide value, how I can give you value. What is it you need? Having a conversation. One of the points that Russell commonly brings up is when we are interviewing people as donors or board members, find out what their passion is, find out what they want to do. When you said, “I want to create articles like this about strategy,” we teach people why it’s important. I would say that 90% of nonprofits I talk to have no strategic plan. What is your number, Russell?
 Russell: It may be higher than that, as frightening as that seems, because about 82% of these organizations eventually go under. It’s a system. It’s who do you know, what are you bringing to people. It’s about the cause we are working toward. That is the place where people get disconnected. Where are people at? You have to meet the people who you want to support you where they are so your messages have to be placed in the right places as well. If you’re not conversing with people where they are, or talking to them about what matters, you become part of the greater chorus of noise that is out there.
 Hugh: There are some obstacles here. There are so many messages people get every day. Clark, we now have a strategy that we are working on, and we will be doing the first level of clarity at the board meeting in a couple weeks. That gives you a foundational document to then work from to do some messaging. Strategy is important for your work as well, isn’t it?
 Clark: Yeah. Let me just take 60 seconds, and I can talk about where we have come in the last year with the symphony. That might help provide some context for people listening or watching right now. We did a survey of who the people were, the characteristics of the people who were attending the concerts. Using the symphony’s mail list, we did a mail-out survey. They filled these things out. We did some number crunching. It gave us a better idea of perspective. We had to understand where they were coming from. More recently, you have jumped in with being able to look at the overall strategy. Where is the organization heading? Then paralleling that, and I know you and I have had conversations, and it has helped to be on the board to get some other input, but to look at it from a communications standpoint, everything is parallel. What I am trying to do from a communication perspective really needs to tightly fit with what’s happening as far as the organization, direction, financial attendance, programming, goes into what a performance organization does.
 Hugh: There are people who think that symphonies are dead. I’m finding there is a real resurgence in people coming back to church, people coming back to arts events, people wanting to find meaning in their lives. There is a service aspect to the performing organization, isn’t there?
 Clark: Yeah. When I was doing some initial research, I wanted to see what the tone was- For the classical arts is what people think of as symphony. It doesn’t have to be. There are small to large orchestras in the country who are doing pops and mixtures and interactive things. It’s just staying relevant. I am not sure if that is necessarily the reason why because you still have age segments that you deal with. It tends to be an older population, which I guess I’m now part of. You always think about, I'm still 28 years old. That is the case. My wife and I love music. She is involved with the symphony also. We go to symphonies. We lived in a city in another part of the country several years ago, where we had season tickets. We would look around and say, “We do see some young people, but it’s people bringing their grandkids.” You have to think long-term about how you can morph into something that doesn’t sacrifice your principles as an organization. I think music, classical music and what orchestras do, is as much education as it is entertaining people. How do you stay relevant in those things is what’s important. Bringing in younger people. I’m not talking about kids necessarily, but a middle-aged population who would really become interested in the orchestras for different types of reasons.
 Hugh: There is interest there. I went to dinner with some people I didn’t know and sat at the end of the table with people I just met. One is a filmmaker out at Liberty in the cinema department who came from the BBC. High-level filmmaker. The other side of me was a young photographer, friend of our former board member and photographer Michael. His wife was a school musician teacher. She said, “Oh, we would love to have more interaction with the symphony. We would love for the kids to know more about it because they are eager for that kind of connection.” That is part of what we are putting into place with the strategy for the symphony is how we go back to the fundamental programs that people think we can’t afford to do anymore, but we really can’t afford not to do them anymore.
 Clark: Exactly. If you look at one of the things that I have dealt with in teaching my students and when I work with organizations or individuals even sometimes, like you said, I typically deal with nonprofits, is what is the primary age segment that you really feel like this is the group we want to work with? You look at the fringe areas. If you have people who are 45-55, there are some characteristics like longevity in an area and ability to sponsor or donate or interest in the arts and find out where they are coming from. They also have children. One thing the Lynchburg Symphony does, and they have been doing this for a while, through some very generous funding of some foundations, is to do music in the schools. I think what you can do is you are not necessarily ignoring other age groups, older or younger. What you are doing is you have a core group and find ways of branching out to them through family members and those types of things.
 Hugh: Underlying this marketing thing, there is your expertise of teaching communications. Russell and I work with nonprofits and have done so for a number of years. I don’t know about you, but in 31 years, there has never been a circumstance where communication as a problem hasn’t come up. People think communication is an “it.” It’s an announcement in the church bulletin. It’s a flyer. Really, communication is the backbone of your plan. You have to communicate, but you have a system to communicate. What I see happen over and over again when I do strategies with boards is what I call a new architecture of engagement. People develop a new kind of relationship. Let me test this piece with you. My take on communication is the foundation is in relationship, then you can transfer information. Otherwise, information doesn’t transfer from one person to another. Talk about communication as the overarching thing of marketing and all of what we are doing here.
 Clark: Is that going to me or Russell?
 Hugh: You. He will give you questions later.
 Clark: Communication is really important, not just because I work in it. Obviously I am a  little biased. I think communication is important. When I worked in corporate years ago, I would look around, not necessarily the organizations I worked at, but I would get information and I subscribe to newsletters. I would see in the news where an organization or company would cut back its public relations or its community relations or whatever because they thought that was expendable and they didn’t need it. The problem is people have to know you are there all the time. In advertising, it’s top of mind awareness. When you go to the grocery store, you see things all the time. There are companies you see advertising, and you say, “Wow, they have been around for decades. They are stable from an economic standpoint. Why do they advertise?” It’s because there is always competition. Even in what we are doing in nonprofits is you have a lot of things that are competing for donor dollars, for sponsorship, for organizations that have foundations. You have to show yourself as vital and relevant in that community. We are dealing with things on a different level. It comes down to the sustainability of the organization.
 Hugh: There are a lot of tidbits in what you just said. Russell, what are you hearing here? Russell gives the real hard questions. I know you are formulating some stuff for him to comment on. I just demonstrated poor communication when he didn’t know the question was for him. Russell, what are you taking in there? You have some sound bites you want to play back.
 Russell: Communication starts with how you talk to each other in the boardroom. That kind of spreads. It fans out from there as a nonprofit organization. It’s really easy to get stuck in the room and forget that the message has to fan out. There is a slightly different language you use for potential board members or advisors than you use for volunteers or donors or everybody has their different language for the same message. Communication takes a lot of work in that regard.
 The one thing that was bouncing around through my mind as we were unpacking that, I was thinking about both of you starting to work with the Lynchburg Symphony and starting to put the strategy and pieces together. What’s one thing you found out that was most surprising about- What did you learn that they were not doing that everybody missed?
 Clark: It’s hard to say one thing. I guess my goal is when I look at this, and I think Hugh just alluded to it a few minutes ago, is you show up and say, “You have a symphony here in this town?” One of my goals is I want everybody to know the symphony is here. That takes the place of- We call it integrated marketing communication. I will structure it briefly. Years ago, you have advertising, public relations, marketing, communication. They operated in silos. The last few years, it has come together under IMC. Because a company may sell a product, and at the same time they have to do public relations. What is your attitude toward that? What are you saying? The same thing would be true for nonprofits like the symphony. You have to approach people on different levels multiple times.
 We use a mix of traditional media. We do things like direct mail. We do a lot of things digitally. We are doing more with social media. We do a lot on Facebook. We are doing some more things with other types of social media that I think will help. It is a building process. You can’t do everything all at once, and it has to be strategic. I don’t just want to jump and try something. The things we are doing today for communicating is over the next year, here is what we are going to do, and here is how we are going to do it. I have a big plan of the major things that usually revolve around concerts, but they can’t just do that. You can’t do a concert and people forget about you. We find ways of encouraging people to stay connected. We are doing some interesting things.
 Something is coming out this week. I am a little off the wall sometimes about ideas. I try to do something that is fun. We found that we were doing some testimonial videos of community leaders. We had one that had over 2,000 views. People love to look at videos. We know that from research. You can see what the status of an organization is when they do social media. Even webisodes and things like that. People love video. We are going to do something that is a little bit different. One of the things that we noticed because you were talking about where do you start, what are some of the things that are gaps. One of the things is we can have followers. We don’t do poorly on followers. We want to increase that of course. But we want interaction and engagement, where instead of people just looking at something, we want people to look at it repeatedly and tell their friends to connect with us. That is how it spreads out, exactly what you were talking about.
 Hugh: A lot of themes came out there. Contrast the difference between marketing and PR.
 Clark: It depends how you look at marketing. Pure marketing, a lot of it is business. It deals with pricing, product distribution, product development based on what a particular area needs. The idea of a market is usually where a company is, or it could be a fast food place or anybody selling something, the area in which they sell those products or provide those services. Then you have market trends, which are broader. A lot of it is the business side of it. How much do things cost over time? What are people using? They are product/service-based. Marketing people who are watching this may say, “That’s not purely it.” It gives us that idea.
 Public relations is trying to develop relationships with your constituents. It could be customers. It could be attendees. It could be donors, like Russell was talking about. It could be volunteers doing things. Russell hit the nail right on the head. You have the central message, but you communicate it in different ways to different avenues to those different constituents. That is exactly what it is. For public relations, you want to have things that are ongoing relationships where people rely on you to provide them with things in the community.
 An orchestra is more than a concert. What are we doing? I guess I can talk about it. We are now getting it out. We are going to be starting an instrument program. We are hoping that people in the community will donate instruments that have been in the closet or attic for years that either they or their kid played. You know there are some kids in our community who would love to get involved in music. We are just at the beginning phases this month to do some information. Next month, we will do the campaign in conjunction with National Back to School Month. We try to find some themes we can wrap our promotions around. That is one thing that will be coming up that our community will be hearing about here in the next few weeks.
 Hugh: We got a new logo for the symphony. They think that’s the brand, like most organizations. That is the image. Underneath that is the statement of the brand image. Who are we? It’s that brand promise. What is it that you get? That is an important part of your marketing, isn’t it?
 Clark: Sure. When people see the logo, they will think things of it. In fact, when I teach these things about image development and maintenance, I will put up images on the screen and ask them what they think of this. I always put a variety of things. I know what their response is going to be because I read the news, and I know what people’s attitudes are to certain organizations and companies. I put those up and say, “What do you think?” I say, “Okay, here’s the thing. That’s the logo. It represents the brand. What is behind it? Who is it? What are their products like? What is the quality? What kind of services do you get?” Those are the marketing tangibles and intangibles, like your attitudes. When you see a logo, and you attach everything to it, you have to make sure you are maintaining the identity of what stands behind it. That is where your public relations come in. When people see it, do they have a good opinion or bad opinion? What do they think? If they look at something and say, “Wow, that’s a wonderful organization,” good. Now what that does is that tells people this is what this brand is all about. That is just an identity piece, but it does represent what that organization stands for.
 Hugh: To have all of the stakeholders understand that because all of your team members are parts of your brand. They represent your brand.
 Clark: They do.
 Hugh: We have seen major companies, airlines in particular, that one of their employees is guilty of brand slaughter. You drag somebody off an airplane. That is big damage to the brand.
 Clark: We use those as examples when we talk about crisis communication. Here is how this happened. How do you deal with it? How many of you would like to be the public relations director for this company? Nobody wants to do it. Here’s the thing. With crisis, organizations at some point will hopefully have problems and not a crisis. If it’s a crisis, you are talking a whole different thing. There are different situations people get into. Crisis is a whole different ball game. What happens if you have good relationships with your constituents, if something comes up, or when it comes up, is that if you already have a positive image and relationship with your constituents, it’s much easier to go in, if the organization handles things the way they should and say, “This is an issue. We will fix it right now.” In history, we have seen good and bad examples of that. That is why companies and organizations have to think broadly of an employee representing the company.
 I tell students that. When you do an internship from this institution, when you are out there, you are not just doing an internship, or when you get a job because the person who hired you knows where you went to school, you realize you represent them. When you do an internship someplace, you have to think about, “I’m not just here doing a job for me.” They’re not really in the auspices of the institution. Or if it’s an organization, somebody who is doing fundraising or development, maybe the relationship is different than an employee, but still, people know you are attached to that organization. How you handle yourself and respond to situations is crucial.
 Hugh: What it opens up for me is we think of marketing only as external. I’m thinking that we have a lot of nonprofits where the board isn’t as engaged as they want to be, as the leader wants them to be. Plus we are not fully in tune with those rubrics you were talking about. What do we stand for? What is our brand promise? How do we make decisions? How do we come together and represent the organization and community? There is a piece internally.
 Russell, you and I have worked with a number of organizations. In your 11 years for the reservation, you have multiple chiefs. Was there reidentifying of some of these anchor brand identity pieces with a new leader? How did you adjust to that? How did the people inside get informed of what that was?
 Russell: The tribal council meetings were open to everyone. Different groups on tribal council and different chiefs have different priorities. The key for me was to be, and I learned a lot, familiar with the overall culture and the history and to keep my eye on the things that were most important for the people in the community to provide them the best service I could possibly give them. There were key needs that people had as far as services, whether that was utility services, education, housing. I had to keep my eye on the big things. Provide affordable housing, make sure people had access to education and health care through our health clinics, make sure our facilities for cultural purposes were in good shape. It’s really keeping a focus on what the people in the community need.
 This is the challenge that leadership is up against. It’s about the people that you serve. This is how I was able to keep my wits about me in the face of a lot of changing political climates. It’s really important to have that DNA so that you know what the most important things are. There is just really- If you can do that, you can keep your eye on the prize. I think something  that a lot of organizations overlook, even in the face of that, people will look at your message, you do the best you can to be clear about who you are, but people are going to make decisions on your brand. They may interpret what you’re doing completely differently. People will brand you if you don’t brand yourself. People will brand you. It’s inevitable that people form their own opinions.
 One of the things I was also thinking about as we have been unpacking this is putting the message out there and being consistent and being true to yourself. I was curious as to some of the things that you guys put in place as you built the strategy that were not there before to make sure that the messaging is clear across all of the platforms you deliver. Clear and consistent.
 Hugh: Clark has seen the strategy. He wasn’t there that day. He had a poor excuse. I think he was in Europe.
 Clark: I had to go 6,000 miles away to avoid a meeting.
 Russell: He is checking out the other symphonies.
 Hugh: Your point is as usual on target, Russ. We don’t know who we are. We can’t communicate who we are because we haven’t drilled our values. We started talking about guiding principles. How do we make good decisions in this container? We also drilled down on why we exist. We think sometimes the arts are expendable. It’s a leisure activity. But really, if you look- When somebody wants to move into a community for a corporate job or a teaching job, they ask about the arts. Is there a symphony? Are there these arts groups? It’s a backbone of the community in many ways. It’s an essential part of a healthy life.
 Clark, what you’ve read from what we have developed so far, it’s in the process of getting tweaked in the next couple weeks, do you want to respond to some of what Russ was talking about? What are your ideas about taking what we have created so far and helping us with that and then taking it forward and communicating externally? I think communicating internally. We need to remember who we are internally.
 Clark: Employee communication or organizational communication. There are different entities of that. Sometimes it’s employees, and sometimes it’s volunteers. There are different relationships between people who are involved inside. One of the things that is important is to make sure that everybody inside, as you were saying, understands what the message is. One thing we will be developing, and I do this on vacation, so don’t tell my wife I did thinking, she says that you’re not supposed to think on vacation.
 Russell: She doesn’t know about this broadcast.
 Hugh: It’s our secret.
 Clark: Don’t tell my wife that I actually thought. It’s good because when I’m home, I’m doing stuff. The day to day work. When I’m on vacation, I can clear my mind and think a little bit. One thing I wrote down, and I keep notes on my Smartphone, I moved from taking notes on paper to jotting notes on my phone, that way it doesn’t get lost, I hope. One thing I said is, “What is the message?” We have to have a central message. I think that will come out of that. The thing about strategic planning and a strategic communication plan with that and a marketing plan, they don’t happen instantly because- The other thing is they can’t happen too fast. Some of the things we do with communication, I need to think about doing next week. A lot of times, we get in a hurry, and we want to be intentional. We want to know where we are headed and why. As we work over the next year, it evolves into something that we know exactly what it is. Having a center of communication was top on my list. What are we trying to say? Who are we trying to reach? What is the core message that we have? Who are our constituents we want to reach and their characteristics? Now we can mold that communication plan around who those people are.
 Hugh: One of my principles I teach organizations I work with is at the end of the meeting, I use storyboards. I have two storyboards up. One is an action plan. What are the tangible actions we are going to do? Who is the champion? When are they going to do it? We tend to talk about all of these great things, but we never assign it to a person or give them a deadline. That makes sure it gets traction.
 The other board is a communication board. We have come up with 90 minutes of some important work. Don’t you think somebody needs to know something? It’s a specific message. We take that for granted. We just think it will go to the world. When we start thinking about what the specific messages are, who needs to know, and who will tell them, it’s a whole different ball game. It’s amazing to me how many people don’t think they need to do that.
 One project, I was working with a law firm, and they had dismissed a partner. I said, “Let’s do this communication board.” They said, “Nah, everybody will know.” I said, “Humor me.” They hadn’t told his secretary. They hadn’t told the bar association. They hadn’t told the magazine subscriptions and all those periodicals. They started drilling down. There was a lot of people that needed to know something. We had to assign somebody to do that. We don’t think about communication as a process, as a connection, do we?
 Clark: No, that’s exactly right. I think companies that do well, I haven’t worked for a lot of companies, but I have worked for a number over the years. I’ll give you an example of the positive side of what you were talking about.
 I worked for a big hospital on the West Coast many years ago in their PR department. They were very good about informing employees. They wanted to make sure everybody knew all the time what was going on. They would do every quarter an 11” x 17” and another panel of that with pictures and captions to the department so that everybody could see what everybody was doing. And everybody loves pictures. This is all pre-digital, so everything had to be in print. Along with the paychecks is once a month, there was a stuffer, 8.5” x 11” double sided, with little snippets of information going on in other places of the facility. It was a big place. I always felt I was well-informed. You were informed on capital development. Every year, they did an annual report. I helped with some videos when I was there. They would show the videos in small group settings, and there would be an administrator who would do a Q&amp;A. They had different levels and layers of information that people constantly felt they were being communicated with. The department I worked in produced some amazing stuff. I think it’s because we had the freedom to do it, the support to do it, and we all felt we were a part of an organization even though it was huge because they did such a good job communicating.
 Companies today that we see that are really successful, they are the ones who do interesting things with employees. Some of the tech companies that have been on the news over the past ten years, people feel comfortable, they know each other. It’s when those things don’t happen where organizations can get in trouble. You have to start with your employees or volunteers, etc.
 Hugh: Absolutely. That is part of the culture creation.
 Clark: Yes, it is.
 Hugh: I am going to give you back some stuff in case you are grading my understanding. Integrated Marketing Communications, that is the umbrella for all of this.
 Clark: Yes. It’s everything. It includes everything that years ago would have been separate. It has marketing communication, advertising, public relations, anything that a communication functions. Because it has the word ‘marketing” in it, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s traditional business marketing. Although it could include that. Somebody goes out and buys a car. You want to make sure they’re happy. You want to make sure they come back in two years to buy another car or tell their friends. Everything is connected. Now we are not dealing with traditional print and broadcast media like we were doing or direct mail although we still might do those things. The world is changing. We have 24/7 through social media and websites and digital content. You have to do different things. That is what is tying it together. Digital has brought those different fields together.
 Hugh: It really has.  We see people do things poorly. Speak to that side of it a minute. The biggest mistakes people make in their communications and integrated marketing, including social media. What are the biggest negatives that you see out there?
 Clark: You and I have talked about this. I think I might have actually included it in the article I wrote for your magazine. One thing is assuming just because you put it out there, people are going to see it. One issue that organizations need to do is find ways of driving people to the social media. You can have some really creative, nice things. Maybe people will share it. It’s like having a great website and nobody knows you exist. Sometimes it’s traditional media, and it’s using different ways. In advertising, radio and television. We would call it cross-promoting. A local TV station runs an ad in a newspaper, or they may run a preview thing on a radio station. That has changed a bit because of digital. Basically, it’s finding different ways to communicate with your constituents so they know you’re there. That’s a big problem. The first solution is we can do a social media site. Great, how are people going to find out about that? Hadn’t thought about that. That is part of the problem: trying to get people to do it. You have to be consistent about posting. I’ll post today, and then whenever. People forget about you. It has to be constant. If you are going to make a commitment to social media, it’s a big job to do that. Anything digital, like websites, Oh, I did my website. When did you last update it? Two years ago. Okay. That’s not going to work. If you’re committing to digital communication, that’s one of the biggest problems is realizing now you have committed yourself to a lot of time and energy to come up with things that are fresh and interesting for your followers.
 Hugh: We want to track our success in seeing how many followers we have. That’s like how many hits we have on a website. He said, “Hits is an acronym. It’s how idiots treat success.” You don’t want hits; you want conversions. You want people to do something.
 Clark: Yeah, what are people doing with that?
 Hugh: We want people to enjoy the symphony. We want them to enrich their lives. They do that by attending concerts. There are other ways. We are expanding our volunteer pool. I say “our.” I am not part of the board, but I can declare here publicly that I am inside because I have been invited to be a guest conductor this year. Russell, I don’t know if I shared that with you, but I get to do the Christmas gig in the newly renovated Academy Theatre, which was a vaudeville theatre in the old days. Here’s an interesting fact. It will be the first time in history that we know of that the theater will be integrated. It hasn’t played to an audience since the time it was segregated. We have the first concert in there during that opening week. It’s a multiple pleasure.
 Of all this stuff we have unearthed, do you have one of those reflections or a good question for Clark before we go to our closing segment here?
 Russell: This is all exciting stuff. As a symphony, the opportunity there is to bring the next generation into music because this is something that is being taken out of the education system through funding or other things. I commend the symphony for doing that. Donating instruments, keeping people interested, bringing them into the fold to keep that next generation, to keep adding fuel to the fire as it were because there is a lot there. I feel it’s important to get people the tools they need once you put the strategy together so that everybody is singing off of the same sheet of music. If the symphony can’t appreciate singing off the same sheet of music, who can? Everybody has the same things to work with. For the different types of media, they all have to work together. Different audiences are in different places. Your younger people may be on various social media platforms. It’s getting an understanding of which mediums are going to work best. Instagram is starting to explode. That’s why Facebook acquired it. Just to have people see different pieces of music and those types of things will probably pique their interest and teach them things about classical music. Here in Denver, we have the Denver Performing Arts Center, and we have the Colorado Symphony and theatres where plays are conducted. That integration and partnership among different people, the opera house is down there, really helps. That collaboration and cooperation is a good thing as well.
 It’s a constant thing to create the type of communication that is going to get the message out to people. That’s important. Traditional media is not dead. There are a lot of things with broadcast, with radio, everything is working together. It’s figuring out where the people you want to reach are and getting to them. I know you’re early in the process, but what are some of the tools that you guys have created up to this point that your staff can use to get the message out about the symphony?
 Clark: We are trying to use both traditional and digital. Some types of media, especially for a small market and small organizations, are a little harder. Television and radio, because of the cost. We are increasing our media relations, and we have had some really good response from local media of helping to talk about things we are doing. It’s finding interesting things that maybe they don’t know that much about. Part of that, like you’re talking about, traditional media is not dead, it’s just organizations have to inform and educate the media. They are one of your publics. Letting them know here is what is coming up.
 One of the things we just implemented on the website a month and a half ago is I added a newsroom. The newsroom will have, right now we have just a few things up there, but it will have articles from the newsletter that will be posted throughout the month. We will take our major articles. It will have all of our press releases. What we want to do is create from a media relations side the idea that media can go there, and they will see what is happening and connect with it. We are getting more into Twitter. People use Twitter a lot for media and news sourcing. We are trying to build those types of things so we can be a resource for the local print and broadcast media.
 Hugh: This Integrated Marketing Communications that you’re educating us on today, how will you communicate the importance of what we’re doing to the board, for instance?
 Clark: I think organization, I like to do big picture. I can do the little things. I really enjoy that. I’ve had a great time, this little thing with the tuba is coming out here this week, and I hope you like it.
 Hugh: I think it’s a great idea. Before we stop, I want you to talk more about that. It’s a brilliant idea.  
 Clark: It will be up on Facebook here in the next day. So what I like to do is I like to look at the big picture. That’s why you and I talk frequently, or communicate about direction. That’s important. I have to get a sense of where we are headed and what the organization wants to do. I won’t go into an organization and say, “Hey, these are all my ideas.” That’s not how things work, especially today. Things have changed a lot. You have a lot of collaboration between organizations and companies and their agencies, their consulting firms. It’s about the organization. What I’m trying to do is serving you with my background and things I think are going to work better. What I try to do is look at the big picture. What are the things we absolutely need to do?
 This year, we know we have five upcoming concerts, I believe. We are doing five concerts over the year. I look at that and I say, “All right, there are certain things that need to be done.” We will always do media relations. We always do direct mail. We do social media. In between that is other little things we are going to be doing, like we talked about the instrument donation. I’d like to see us have more relationships with other local nonprofits and organizations. We are looking at one aspect of that. Had some conversations with an organization who has a lot of social media followers. It’s a great organization. You and I talked about sharing resources and doing things when we visited a few weeks ago. I think that helps everybody, especially in a small market. It really makes for a unified community. Essentially, even though we are doing different types of things, we are all here to service this town and to find the best ways we can of making this place better. That’s really what we are all about. Sometimes you can partner up with people and do those things, or at least do things in cooperative ways, maybe not official partnerships, but do things that help each other to help the community.
 Hugh: Absolutely. We are a social benefit organization. Nonprofit is a dumb word. Talk about the tuba just a minute before-
 Clark: Okay. I like to periodically come up with some wild ideas. I got a tuba. I have had this tuba for three years. I played tuba for about 35 years. I have played in orchestras. Nothing official. There are people who are far better equipped than me. I am not a degreed professional as it relates to that, but I do enjoy playing. I have played in community bands and things. I really enjoy it. I have this tuba. My wife named it. She is a harpist. My wife is the harpist for the Lynchburg Symphony. She has a couple harps. She has named her harps. She finds out that every harpist names their harps. She named my tuba. I said, “Let’s have some fun for social media” because we want to increase engagement. We found out over the last year that people love to watch videos. Most of them are storytelling videos. I made a little video to promote the new newsletter that is coming out this week. I did a promo, and 400 people have watched it. Oh, wonderful. People love videos. You read all the data on this stuff. Even things that don’t really have a message more than “Come and look at this.”
 We personified my tuba, so he has his own episodes. His name is Merlin. What we are going to do this month is each week, because it takes so long to produce these things, they are a minute and a half, but it took me four days to produce these segments. We shot stuff. It takes an hour and a half to do these things. I have a very good friend who is an old radio guy, he is not as old as I am, but he has been in radio a long time. He teaches in that area. I said, “Would you do a voice for me?” He did the voice of Merlin. It sounds great. This month, each week, we have something that acquaints people who follow us with who Merlin is. Next month, we are going to take Merlin to different places in the area and shoot a picture of him in a setting. We are going to ask people where they think Merlin is today. We can do these things three or four times a week. We are going to start engagement next week. One thing Merlin likes to do is listen to music, anything that has to do with tubas. One thing, next week, we are going to ask people, “Merlin needs some new stuff for his mp3 player. What songs would you recommend that Merlin would listen to?” I don’t know what kind of a response we will get; I hope people will respond to these things. I’m doing something that is a little different. Hopefully it’s fun. I think we could cross the line where this is goofy, but I think it has produced pretty well. It’s an interesting thing. It needs to have a disclaimer at the end. It will be real fun.
 Hugh: It’s inter-generational. It will involve the board, too.
 Clark: What we are trying to do is we are trying to branch out and we are going to ask the board to communicate it when it’s posted, to invite friends to listen, to invite other people to do these things. It’s not just a one-off post. It’s a “Tell your friends about Merlin. He’s coming back next week for another webisode.” he will not be on all the time. It takes too long to shoot these sequences and edit them, but he will show up probably around Halloween and Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and whenever else to make an appearance.
 Hugh: You heard about Merlin right here, folks. Merlin the Tuba. We have two minutes left.
 *Sponsorship message for Wordsprint*
 What do you want to leave people with? A thought or a challenge or some perspective.
 Clark: My voice is giving. That’s what happens in the summer. I go four months without talking. I can’t do it. I think one thing is knowing who your target audience is. When I say “target,” that’s usually about a ten-year range. It will get you in the ballpark. You need to know who your people are, how they think, what they think of your organization, and then give them things that help them. Don’t just promote yourself. It’s part of it. But do things that help them, help the community. I think it’s understanding what’s in the minds of your constituents is the best place to start.
 Hugh: Well, Dr. Clark Greer, wonderful tidbits, wonderful, useful information. Russell, thank you for your faithful attendance and helpful perspectives and good questions. Thank you.
 Clark: Thanks for having me.
 Russell: It’s always a pleasure. It’s about creating an experience for everybody that is involved with you. That is what Clark is doing with the symphony. That’s the thing to remember with marketing. We are creating an experience for all the people we are serving.
 Hugh: Thanks, Clark.
 Clark: Thanks for having me.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7d21e750-b329-11eb-9f0f-e79babea58dd/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Communications and Marketing Expert, Dr. Clark Greer</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Using An Effective Integrated Marketing Communication Mix In Nonprofit Organizations
 Clark Greer is the founder of Clark Greer Communications, LLC, a consulting firm that focuses on assisting nonprofit organizations with marketing communications and public relations. He holds a Master’s Degree in Broadcast Journalism from the University of Southern California, and a doctorate in Communication Studies from Bowling Green State University. Clark’s full-time job for the past 20 years has been as a communication professor specializing in public relations, strategic communication, TV news, and communication research. In addition, he and research colleagues have published nearly 20 studies in academic journals, and have presented more than two dozen papers at research conferences.
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, everyone. Welcome to this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. Today, we’re talking about that topic we call marketing. Marketing is, the older I get, the more complex it gets, but the more important it gets. It’s an area that we do not regard with enough importance, those of us that run nonprofit organizations. Russell, how are you doing today?
 Russell Dennis: Beautiful day out here in Denver, Colorado. Partly cloudy. There is lots of activity taking place out here. We have folks that have been talking to me who are running nonprofits and are struggling to get the word out on what they’re doing. It’s hard to get support if nobody knows what you’re doing. I’m glad that Clark is here to share with us some ways to increase that visibility. That’s what it’s all about, isn’t it, Clark?
 Clark Greer: Yeah, that’s right. That sounds nice. We’re out here in Virginia. I wish I was in a little bit of a cooler spot right now.
 Hugh: We were out on the parkway night before last, and it was in the mid-50s. It was luscious. Clark, we like to impose upon our guests to define who they are. Tell a little bit about yourself. You have this organization that you run to do marketing specifically targeted to nonprofits. You and I, however, met in one of those nonprofits where you serve on the board. You and I met there, and we started conversations which led to this interview. Talk about yourself and what has led you to this place to do this very specific thing that you do for nonprofits.
 Clark: This is like the digest size of this instead of a full version. I actually started out in radio when I was in high school. It clicked with me to do communication and spend several years on radio, doing radio news. Ended up ultimately picking up a graduate degree in broadcast journalism from a big university on the west coast. Ended up working in corporate communications, advertising, public relations, marketing communication, organizational communication, different types of organizations, both for-profit and nonprofit. About 20 years ago, I started teaching higher education. That is my full-time gig is teaching in a university. I have always liked to do things for organizations. When my wife and I moved to this area, I said, “Should I work at the orchestra, symphony orchestra that does anything marketing or organizational comm.” We went to a couple of concerts, made some connections, and that’s where I am today.
 Hugh: Love it. It took me only a couple of conversations to determine that you had a very unique perspective on marketing. What is the name of your organization?
 Clark: Something that is not real creative, but it’s Clark Greer Communications. It was easy to come up with it. Then I could put my name out there, and it’s easy to remember that. For me, as I get older, remembering the name of the company is a lot easier.
 Hugh: You’re a professor. You teach communications.
 Clark: I do. I have taught for about 20 years in three different institutions in the country. I taught interactive media when the web was just getting going back in the ‘90s. I have taught public relations and strategic communication, and television news. A little bit of everything.
 Hugh: We are going to explore this in the interview at some point. I had a pivot in my understanding of how you construct campaigns to let people know about the organization. We are specifically focused on the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra at the moment. When I moved here, people said, “Oh, we have an orchestra?” There was a big gap in awareness, even though the orchestra has paid for ads and they have a Facebook page and all of the things we customarily do. There is a large portion of the community that didn’t know about it. You were interviewing me about strategy. I had just recently done the first planning session for the board of the symphony. You interviewed me, and you said, “I want to give value to others in our newsletter and publicity.” Speak to that element a minute. We will unpack that throughout the interview because that is a unique perspective.
 Clark: I think the temptation is in market communication or PR or whatever we are doing is to make connections with our constituents and followers. In the case of the symphony or other performance organizations, it will be people attending or donating. Organizations have different types of needs. One temptation is we are going to advertise it, and we are going to say, “Here we are, come to whatever, or donate.” If it’s a nonprofit that does construction in a community for building, it’s “Come and see us.” I think what’s really important is to help the organization be relevant to the people they are trying to reach. That is what we are trying to do in different ways. A lot of it is promotion because we are trying to have everybody in this area know who the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra is. That is a big chore because it isn’t just the community, but there is surrounding communities. A lot of things we have to deal with. We are trying to give value back to people, so instead of just saying, “Come to our concerts,” it’s “How can we serve you as a community and an organization? What are the things you need that we can help you get better at?”
 Hugh: That is such a different perspective. Here is a mistake I see commonly in social media. “Buy my stuff. Get my program. Let me coach you.” They are pushing their stuff rather than saying how I can provide value, how I can give you value. What is it you need? Having a conversation. One of the points that Russell commonly brings up is when we are interviewing people as donors or board members, find out what their passion is, find out what they want to do. When you said, “I want to create articles like this about strategy,” we teach people why it’s important. I would say that 90% of nonprofits I talk to have no strategic plan. What is your number, Russell?
 Russell: It may be higher than that, as frightening as that seems, because about 82% of these organizations eventually go under. It’s a system. It’s who do you know, what are you bringing to people. It’s about the cause we are working toward. That is the place where people get disconnected. Where are people at? You have to meet the people who you want to support you where they are so your messages have to be placed in the right places as well. If you’re not conversing with people where they are, or talking to them about what matters, you become part of the greater chorus of noise that is out there.
 Hugh: There are some obstacles here. There are so many messages people get every day. Clark, we now have a strategy that we are working on, and we will be doing the first level of clarity at the board meeting in a couple weeks. That gives you a foundational document to then work from to do some messaging. Strategy is important for your work as well, isn’t it?
 Clark: Yeah. Let me just take 60 seconds, and I can talk about where we have come in the last year with the symphony. That might help provide some context for people listening or watching right now. We did a survey of who the people were, the characteristics of the people who were attending the concerts. Using the symphony’s mail list, we did a mail-out survey. They filled these things out. We did some number crunching. It gave us a better idea of perspective. We had to understand where they were coming from. More recently, you have jumped in with being able to look at the overall strategy. Where is the organization heading? Then paralleling that, and I know you and I have had conversations, and it has helped to be on the board to get some other input, but to look at it from a communications standpoint, everything is parallel. What I am trying to do from a communication perspective really needs to tightly fit with what’s happening as far as the organization, direction, financial attendance, programming, goes into what a performance organization does.
 Hugh: There are people who think that symphonies are dead. I’m finding there is a real resurgence in people coming back to church, people coming back to arts events, people wanting to find meaning in their lives. There is a service aspect to the performing organization, isn’t there?
 Clark: Yeah. When I was doing some initial research, I wanted to see what the tone was- For the classical arts is what people think of as symphony. It doesn’t have to be. There are small to large orchestras in the country who are doing pops and mixtures and interactive things. It’s just staying relevant. I am not sure if that is necessarily the reason why because you still have age segments that you deal with. It tends to be an older population, which I guess I’m now part of. You always think about, I'm still 28 years old. That is the case. My wife and I love music. She is involved with the symphony also. We go to symphonies. We lived in a city in another part of the country several years ago, where we had season tickets. We would look around and say, “We do see some young people, but it’s people bringing their grandkids.” You have to think long-term about how you can morph into something that doesn’t sacrifice your principles as an organization. I think music, classical music and what orchestras do, is as much education as it is entertaining people. How do you stay relevant in those things is what’s important. Bringing in younger people. I’m not talking about kids necessarily, but a middle-aged population who would really become interested in the orchestras for different types of reasons.
 Hugh: There is interest there. I went to dinner with some people I didn’t know and sat at the end of the table with people I just met. One is a filmmaker out at Liberty in the cinema department who came from the BBC. High-level filmmaker. The other side of me was a young photographer, friend of our former board member and photographer Michael. His wife was a school musician teacher. She said, “Oh, we would love to have more interaction with the symphony. We would love for the kids to know more about it because they are eager for that kind of connection.” That is part of what we are putting into place with the strategy for the symphony is how we go back to the fundamental programs that people think we can’t afford to do anymore, but we really can’t afford not to do them anymore.
 Clark: Exactly. If you look at one of the things that I have dealt with in teaching my students and when I work with organizations or individuals even sometimes, like you said, I typically deal with nonprofits, is what is the primary age segment that you really feel like this is the group we want to work with? You look at the fringe areas. If you have people who are 45-55, there are some characteristics like longevity in an area and ability to sponsor or donate or interest in the arts and find out where they are coming from. They also have children. One thing the Lynchburg Symphony does, and they have been doing this for a while, through some very generous funding of some foundations, is to do music in the schools. I think what you can do is you are not necessarily ignoring other age groups, older or younger. What you are doing is you have a core group and find ways of branching out to them through family members and those types of things.
 Hugh: Underlying this marketing thing, there is your expertise of teaching communications. Russell and I work with nonprofits and have done so for a number of years. I don’t know about you, but in 31 years, there has never been a circumstance where communication as a problem hasn’t come up. People think communication is an “it.” It’s an announcement in the church bulletin. It’s a flyer. Really, communication is the backbone of your plan. You have to communicate, but you have a system to communicate. What I see happen over and over again when I do strategies with boards is what I call a new architecture of engagement. People develop a new kind of relationship. Let me test this piece with you. My take on communication is the foundation is in relationship, then you can transfer information. Otherwise, information doesn’t transfer from one person to another. Talk about communication as the overarching thing of marketing and all of what we are doing here.
 Clark: Is that going to me or Russell?
 Hugh: You. He will give you questions later.
 Clark: Communication is really important, not just because I work in it. Obviously I am a  little biased. I think communication is important. When I worked in corporate years ago, I would look around, not necessarily the organizations I worked at, but I would get information and I subscribe to newsletters. I would see in the news where an organization or company would cut back its public relations or its community relations or whatever because they thought that was expendable and they didn’t need it. The problem is people have to know you are there all the time. In advertising, it’s top of mind awareness. When you go to the grocery store, you see things all the time. There are companies you see advertising, and you say, “Wow, they have been around for decades. They are stable from an economic standpoint. Why do they advertise?” It’s because there is always competition. Even in what we are doing in nonprofits is you have a lot of things that are competing for donor dollars, for sponsorship, for organizations that have foundations. You have to show yourself as vital and relevant in that community. We are dealing with things on a different level. It comes down to the sustainability of the organization.
 Hugh: There are a lot of tidbits in what you just said. Russell, what are you hearing here? Russell gives the real hard questions. I know you are formulating some stuff for him to comment on. I just demonstrated poor communication when he didn’t know the question was for him. Russell, what are you taking in there? You have some sound bites you want to play back.
 Russell: Communication starts with how you talk to each other in the boardroom. That kind of spreads. It fans out from there as a nonprofit organization. It’s really easy to get stuck in the room and forget that the message has to fan out. There is a slightly different language you use for potential board members or advisors than you use for volunteers or donors or everybody has their different language for the same message. Communication takes a lot of work in that regard.
 The one thing that was bouncing around through my mind as we were unpacking that, I was thinking about both of you starting to work with the Lynchburg Symphony and starting to put the strategy and pieces together. What’s one thing you found out that was most surprising about- What did you learn that they were not doing that everybody missed?
 Clark: It’s hard to say one thing. I guess my goal is when I look at this, and I think Hugh just alluded to it a few minutes ago, is you show up and say, “You have a symphony here in this town?” One of my goals is I want everybody to know the symphony is here. That takes the place of- We call it integrated marketing communication. I will structure it briefly. Years ago, you have advertising, public relations, marketing, communication. They operated in silos. The last few years, it has come together under IMC. Because a company may sell a product, and at the same time they have to do public relations. What is your attitude toward that? What are you saying? The same thing would be true for nonprofits like the symphony. You have to approach people on different levels multiple times.
 We use a mix of traditional media. We do things like direct mail. We do a lot of things digitally. We are doing more with social media. We do a lot on Facebook. We are doing some more things with other types of social media that I think will help. It is a building process. You can’t do everything all at once, and it has to be strategic. I don’t just want to jump and try something. The things we are doing today for communicating is over the next year, here is what we are going to do, and here is how we are going to do it. I have a big plan of the major things that usually revolve around concerts, but they can’t just do that. You can’t do a concert and people forget about you. We find ways of encouraging people to stay connected. We are doing some interesting things.
 Something is coming out this week. I am a little off the wall sometimes about ideas. I try to do something that is fun. We found that we were doing some testimonial videos of community leaders. We had one that had over 2,000 views. People love to look at videos. We know that from research. You can see what the status of an organization is when they do social media. Even webisodes and things like that. People love video. We are going to do something that is a little bit different. One of the things that we noticed because you were talking about where do you start, what are some of the things that are gaps. One of the things is we can have followers. We don’t do poorly on followers. We want to increase that of course. But we want interaction and engagement, where instead of people just looking at something, we want people to look at it repeatedly and tell their friends to connect with us. That is how it spreads out, exactly what you were talking about.
 Hugh: A lot of themes came out there. Contrast the difference between marketing and PR.
 Clark: It depends how you look at marketing. Pure marketing, a lot of it is business. It deals with pricing, product distribution, product development based on what a particular area needs. The idea of a market is usually where a company is, or it could be a fast food place or anybody selling something, the area in which they sell those products or provide those services. Then you have market trends, which are broader. A lot of it is the business side of it. How much do things cost over time? What are people using? They are product/service-based. Marketing people who are watching this may say, “That’s not purely it.” It gives us that idea.
 Public relations is trying to develop relationships with your constituents. It could be customers. It could be attendees. It could be donors, like Russell was talking about. It could be volunteers doing things. Russell hit the nail right on the head. You have the central message, but you communicate it in different ways to different avenues to those different constituents. That is exactly what it is. For public relations, you want to have things that are ongoing relationships where people rely on you to provide them with things in the community.
 An orchestra is more than a concert. What are we doing? I guess I can talk about it. We are now getting it out. We are going to be starting an instrument program. We are hoping that people in the community will donate instruments that have been in the closet or attic for years that either they or their kid played. You know there are some kids in our community who would love to get involved in music. We are just at the beginning phases this month to do some information. Next month, we will do the campaign in conjunction with National Back to School Month. We try to find some themes we can wrap our promotions around. That is one thing that will be coming up that our community will be hearing about here in the next few weeks.
 Hugh: We got a new logo for the symphony. They think that’s the brand, like most organizations. That is the image. Underneath that is the statement of the brand image. Who are we? It’s that brand promise. What is it that you get? That is an important part of your marketing, isn’t it?
 Clark: Sure. When people see the logo, they will think things of it. In fact, when I teach these things about image development and maintenance, I will put up images on the screen and ask them what they think of this. I always put a variety of things. I know what their response is going to be because I read the news, and I know what people’s attitudes are to certain organizations and companies. I put those up and say, “What do you think?” I say, “Okay, here’s the thing. That’s the logo. It represents the brand. What is behind it? Who is it? What are their products like? What is the quality? What kind of services do you get?” Those are the marketing tangibles and intangibles, like your attitudes. When you see a logo, and you attach everything to it, you have to make sure you are maintaining the identity of what stands behind it. That is where your public relations come in. When people see it, do they have a good opinion or bad opinion? What do they think? If they look at something and say, “Wow, that’s a wonderful organization,” good. Now what that does is that tells people this is what this brand is all about. That is just an identity piece, but it does represent what that organization stands for.
 Hugh: To have all of the stakeholders understand that because all of your team members are parts of your brand. They represent your brand.
 Clark: They do.
 Hugh: We have seen major companies, airlines in particular, that one of their employees is guilty of brand slaughter. You drag somebody off an airplane. That is big damage to the brand.
 Clark: We use those as examples when we talk about crisis communication. Here is how this happened. How do you deal with it? How many of you would like to be the public relations director for this company? Nobody wants to do it. Here’s the thing. With crisis, organizations at some point will hopefully have problems and not a crisis. If it’s a crisis, you are talking a whole different thing. There are different situations people get into. Crisis is a whole different ball game. What happens if you have good relationships with your constituents, if something comes up, or when it comes up, is that if you already have a positive image and relationship with your constituents, it’s much easier to go in, if the organization handles things the way they should and say, “This is an issue. We will fix it right now.” In history, we have seen good and bad examples of that. That is why companies and organizations have to think broadly of an employee representing the company.
 I tell students that. When you do an internship from this institution, when you are out there, you are not just doing an internship, or when you get a job because the person who hired you knows where you went to school, you realize you represent them. When you do an internship someplace, you have to think about, “I’m not just here doing a job for me.” They’re not really in the auspices of the institution. Or if it’s an organization, somebody who is doing fundraising or development, maybe the relationship is different than an employee, but still, people know you are attached to that organization. How you handle yourself and respond to situations is crucial.
 Hugh: What it opens up for me is we think of marketing only as external. I’m thinking that we have a lot of nonprofits where the board isn’t as engaged as they want to be, as the leader wants them to be. Plus we are not fully in tune with those rubrics you were talking about. What do we stand for? What is our brand promise? How do we make decisions? How do we come together and represent the organization and community? There is a piece internally.
 Russell, you and I have worked with a number of organizations. In your 11 years for the reservation, you have multiple chiefs. Was there reidentifying of some of these anchor brand identity pieces with a new leader? How did you adjust to that? How did the people inside get informed of what that was?
 Russell: The tribal council meetings were open to everyone. Different groups on tribal council and different chiefs have different priorities. The key for me was to be, and I learned a lot, familiar with the overall culture and the history and to keep my eye on the things that were most important for the people in the community to provide them the best service I could possibly give them. There were key needs that people had as far as services, whether that was utility services, education, housing. I had to keep my eye on the big things. Provide affordable housing, make sure people had access to education and health care through our health clinics, make sure our facilities for cultural purposes were in good shape. It’s really keeping a focus on what the people in the community need.
 This is the challenge that leadership is up against. It’s about the people that you serve. This is how I was able to keep my wits about me in the face of a lot of changing political climates. It’s really important to have that DNA so that you know what the most important things are. There is just really- If you can do that, you can keep your eye on the prize. I think something  that a lot of organizations overlook, even in the face of that, people will look at your message, you do the best you can to be clear about who you are, but people are going to make decisions on your brand. They may interpret what you’re doing completely differently. People will brand you if you don’t brand yourself. People will brand you. It’s inevitable that people form their own opinions.
 One of the things I was also thinking about as we have been unpacking this is putting the message out there and being consistent and being true to yourself. I was curious as to some of the things that you guys put in place as you built the strategy that were not there before to make sure that the messaging is clear across all of the platforms you deliver. Clear and consistent.
 Hugh: Clark has seen the strategy. He wasn’t there that day. He had a poor excuse. I think he was in Europe.
 Clark: I had to go 6,000 miles away to avoid a meeting.
 Russell: He is checking out the other symphonies.
 Hugh: Your point is as usual on target, Russ. We don’t know who we are. We can’t communicate who we are because we haven’t drilled our values. We started talking about guiding principles. How do we make good decisions in this container? We also drilled down on why we exist. We think sometimes the arts are expendable. It’s a leisure activity. But really, if you look- When somebody wants to move into a community for a corporate job or a teaching job, they ask about the arts. Is there a symphony? Are there these arts groups? It’s a backbone of the community in many ways. It’s an essential part of a healthy life.
 Clark, what you’ve read from what we have developed so far, it’s in the process of getting tweaked in the next couple weeks, do you want to respond to some of what Russ was talking about? What are your ideas about taking what we have created so far and helping us with that and then taking it forward and communicating externally? I think communicating internally. We need to remember who we are internally.
 Clark: Employee communication or organizational communication. There are different entities of that. Sometimes it’s employees, and sometimes it’s volunteers. There are different relationships between people who are involved inside. One of the things that is important is to make sure that everybody inside, as you were saying, understands what the message is. One thing we will be developing, and I do this on vacation, so don’t tell my wife I did thinking, she says that you’re not supposed to think on vacation.
 Russell: She doesn’t know about this broadcast.
 Hugh: It’s our secret.
 Clark: Don’t tell my wife that I actually thought. It’s good because when I’m home, I’m doing stuff. The day to day work. When I’m on vacation, I can clear my mind and think a little bit. One thing I wrote down, and I keep notes on my Smartphone, I moved from taking notes on paper to jotting notes on my phone, that way it doesn’t get lost, I hope. One thing I said is, “What is the message?” We have to have a central message. I think that will come out of that. The thing about strategic planning and a strategic communication plan with that and a marketing plan, they don’t happen instantly because- The other thing is they can’t happen too fast. Some of the things we do with communication, I need to think about doing next week. A lot of times, we get in a hurry, and we want to be intentional. We want to know where we are headed and why. As we work over the next year, it evolves into something that we know exactly what it is. Having a center of communication was top on my list. What are we trying to say? Who are we trying to reach? What is the core message that we have? Who are our constituents we want to reach and their characteristics? Now we can mold that communication plan around who those people are.
 Hugh: One of my principles I teach organizations I work with is at the end of the meeting, I use storyboards. I have two storyboards up. One is an action plan. What are the tangible actions we are going to do? Who is the champion? When are they going to do it? We tend to talk about all of these great things, but we never assign it to a person or give them a deadline. That makes sure it gets traction.
 The other board is a communication board. We have come up with 90 minutes of some important work. Don’t you think somebody needs to know something? It’s a specific message. We take that for granted. We just think it will go to the world. When we start thinking about what the specific messages are, who needs to know, and who will tell them, it’s a whole different ball game. It’s amazing to me how many people don’t think they need to do that.
 One project, I was working with a law firm, and they had dismissed a partner. I said, “Let’s do this communication board.” They said, “Nah, everybody will know.” I said, “Humor me.” They hadn’t told his secretary. They hadn’t told the bar association. They hadn’t told the magazine subscriptions and all those periodicals. They started drilling down. There was a lot of people that needed to know something. We had to assign somebody to do that. We don’t think about communication as a process, as a connection, do we?
 Clark: No, that’s exactly right. I think companies that do well, I haven’t worked for a lot of companies, but I have worked for a number over the years. I’ll give you an example of the positive side of what you were talking about.
 I worked for a big hospital on the West Coast many years ago in their PR department. They were very good about informing employees. They wanted to make sure everybody knew all the time what was going on. They would do every quarter an 11” x 17” and another panel of that with pictures and captions to the department so that everybody could see what everybody was doing. And everybody loves pictures. This is all pre-digital, so everything had to be in print. Along with the paychecks is once a month, there was a stuffer, 8.5” x 11” double sided, with little snippets of information going on in other places of the facility. It was a big place. I always felt I was well-informed. You were informed on capital development. Every year, they did an annual report. I helped with some videos when I was there. They would show the videos in small group settings, and there would be an administrator who would do a Q&amp;A. They had different levels and layers of information that people constantly felt they were being communicated with. The department I worked in produced some amazing stuff. I think it’s because we had the freedom to do it, the support to do it, and we all felt we were a part of an organization even though it was huge because they did such a good job communicating.
 Companies today that we see that are really successful, they are the ones who do interesting things with employees. Some of the tech companies that have been on the news over the past ten years, people feel comfortable, they know each other. It’s when those things don’t happen where organizations can get in trouble. You have to start with your employees or volunteers, etc.
 Hugh: Absolutely. That is part of the culture creation.
 Clark: Yes, it is.
 Hugh: I am going to give you back some stuff in case you are grading my understanding. Integrated Marketing Communications, that is the umbrella for all of this.
 Clark: Yes. It’s everything. It includes everything that years ago would have been separate. It has marketing communication, advertising, public relations, anything that a communication functions. Because it has the word ‘marketing” in it, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s traditional business marketing. Although it could include that. Somebody goes out and buys a car. You want to make sure they’re happy. You want to make sure they come back in two years to buy another car or tell their friends. Everything is connected. Now we are not dealing with traditional print and broadcast media like we were doing or direct mail although we still might do those things. The world is changing. We have 24/7 through social media and websites and digital content. You have to do different things. That is what is tying it together. Digital has brought those different fields together.
 Hugh: It really has.  We see people do things poorly. Speak to that side of it a minute. The biggest mistakes people make in their communications and integrated marketing, including social media. What are the biggest negatives that you see out there?
 Clark: You and I have talked about this. I think I might have actually included it in the article I wrote for your magazine. One thing is assuming just because you put it out there, people are going to see it. One issue that organizations need to do is find ways of driving people to the social media. You can have some really creative, nice things. Maybe people will share it. It’s like having a great website and nobody knows you exist. Sometimes it’s traditional media, and it’s using different ways. In advertising, radio and television. We would call it cross-promoting. A local TV station runs an ad in a newspaper, or they may run a preview thing on a radio station. That has changed a bit because of digital. Basically, it’s finding different ways to communicate with your constituents so they know you’re there. That’s a big problem. The first solution is we can do a social media site. Great, how are people going to find out about that? Hadn’t thought about that. That is part of the problem: trying to get people to do it. You have to be consistent about posting. I’ll post today, and then whenever. People forget about you. It has to be constant. If you are going to make a commitment to social media, it’s a big job to do that. Anything digital, like websites, Oh, I did my website. When did you last update it? Two years ago. Okay. That’s not going to work. If you’re committing to digital communication, that’s one of the biggest problems is realizing now you have committed yourself to a lot of time and energy to come up with things that are fresh and interesting for your followers.
 Hugh: We want to track our success in seeing how many followers we have. That’s like how many hits we have on a website. He said, “Hits is an acronym. It’s how idiots treat success.” You don’t want hits; you want conversions. You want people to do something.
 Clark: Yeah, what are people doing with that?
 Hugh: We want people to enjoy the symphony. We want them to enrich their lives. They do that by attending concerts. There are other ways. We are expanding our volunteer pool. I say “our.” I am not part of the board, but I can declare here publicly that I am inside because I have been invited to be a guest conductor this year. Russell, I don’t know if I shared that with you, but I get to do the Christmas gig in the newly renovated Academy Theatre, which was a vaudeville theatre in the old days. Here’s an interesting fact. It will be the first time in history that we know of that the theater will be integrated. It hasn’t played to an audience since the time it was segregated. We have the first concert in there during that opening week. It’s a multiple pleasure.
 Of all this stuff we have unearthed, do you have one of those reflections or a good question for Clark before we go to our closing segment here?
 Russell: This is all exciting stuff. As a symphony, the opportunity there is to bring the next generation into music because this is something that is being taken out of the education system through funding or other things. I commend the symphony for doing that. Donating instruments, keeping people interested, bringing them into the fold to keep that next generation, to keep adding fuel to the fire as it were because there is a lot there. I feel it’s important to get people the tools they need once you put the strategy together so that everybody is singing off of the same sheet of music. If the symphony can’t appreciate singing off the same sheet of music, who can? Everybody has the same things to work with. For the different types of media, they all have to work together. Different audiences are in different places. Your younger people may be on various social media platforms. It’s getting an understanding of which mediums are going to work best. Instagram is starting to explode. That’s why Facebook acquired it. Just to have people see different pieces of music and those types of things will probably pique their interest and teach them things about classical music. Here in Denver, we have the Denver Performing Arts Center, and we have the Colorado Symphony and theatres where plays are conducted. That integration and partnership among different people, the opera house is down there, really helps. That collaboration and cooperation is a good thing as well.
 It’s a constant thing to create the type of communication that is going to get the message out to people. That’s important. Traditional media is not dead. There are a lot of things with broadcast, with radio, everything is working together. It’s figuring out where the people you want to reach are and getting to them. I know you’re early in the process, but what are some of the tools that you guys have created up to this point that your staff can use to get the message out about the symphony?
 Clark: We are trying to use both traditional and digital. Some types of media, especially for a small market and small organizations, are a little harder. Television and radio, because of the cost. We are increasing our media relations, and we have had some really good response from local media of helping to talk about things we are doing. It’s finding interesting things that maybe they don’t know that much about. Part of that, like you’re talking about, traditional media is not dead, it’s just organizations have to inform and educate the media. They are one of your publics. Letting them know here is what is coming up.
 One of the things we just implemented on the website a month and a half ago is I added a newsroom. The newsroom will have, right now we have just a few things up there, but it will have articles from the newsletter that will be posted throughout the month. We will take our major articles. It will have all of our press releases. What we want to do is create from a media relations side the idea that media can go there, and they will see what is happening and connect with it. We are getting more into Twitter. People use Twitter a lot for media and news sourcing. We are trying to build those types of things so we can be a resource for the local print and broadcast media.
 Hugh: This Integrated Marketing Communications that you’re educating us on today, how will you communicate the importance of what we’re doing to the board, for instance?
 Clark: I think organization, I like to do big picture. I can do the little things. I really enjoy that. I’ve had a great time, this little thing with the tuba is coming out here this week, and I hope you like it.
 Hugh: I think it’s a great idea. Before we stop, I want you to talk more about that. It’s a brilliant idea.  
 Clark: It will be up on Facebook here in the next day. So what I like to do is I like to look at the big picture. That’s why you and I talk frequently, or communicate about direction. That’s important. I have to get a sense of where we are headed and what the organization wants to do. I won’t go into an organization and say, “Hey, these are all my ideas.” That’s not how things work, especially today. Things have changed a lot. You have a lot of collaboration between organizations and companies and their agencies, their consulting firms. It’s about the organization. What I’m trying to do is serving you with my background and things I think are going to work better. What I try to do is look at the big picture. What are the things we absolutely need to do?
 This year, we know we have five upcoming concerts, I believe. We are doing five concerts over the year. I look at that and I say, “All right, there are certain things that need to be done.” We will always do media relations. We always do direct mail. We do social media. In between that is other little things we are going to be doing, like we talked about the instrument donation. I’d like to see us have more relationships with other local nonprofits and organizations. We are looking at one aspect of that. Had some conversations with an organization who has a lot of social media followers. It’s a great organization. You and I talked about sharing resources and doing things when we visited a few weeks ago. I think that helps everybody, especially in a small market. It really makes for a unified community. Essentially, even though we are doing different types of things, we are all here to service this town and to find the best ways we can of making this place better. That’s really what we are all about. Sometimes you can partner up with people and do those things, or at least do things in cooperative ways, maybe not official partnerships, but do things that help each other to help the community.
 Hugh: Absolutely. We are a social benefit organization. Nonprofit is a dumb word. Talk about the tuba just a minute before-
 Clark: Okay. I like to periodically come up with some wild ideas. I got a tuba. I have had this tuba for three years. I played tuba for about 35 years. I have played in orchestras. Nothing official. There are people who are far better equipped than me. I am not a degreed professional as it relates to that, but I do enjoy playing. I have played in community bands and things. I really enjoy it. I have this tuba. My wife named it. She is a harpist. My wife is the harpist for the Lynchburg Symphony. She has a couple harps. She has named her harps. She finds out that every harpist names their harps. She named my tuba. I said, “Let’s have some fun for social media” because we want to increase engagement. We found out over the last year that people love to watch videos. Most of them are storytelling videos. I made a little video to promote the new newsletter that is coming out this week. I did a promo, and 400 people have watched it. Oh, wonderful. People love videos. You read all the data on this stuff. Even things that don’t really have a message more than “Come and look at this.”
 We personified my tuba, so he has his own episodes. His name is Merlin. What we are going to do this month is each week, because it takes so long to produce these things, they are a minute and a half, but it took me four days to produce these segments. We shot stuff. It takes an hour and a half to do these things. I have a very good friend who is an old radio guy, he is not as old as I am, but he has been in radio a long time. He teaches in that area. I said, “Would you do a voice for me?” He did the voice of Merlin. It sounds great. This month, each week, we have something that acquaints people who follow us with who Merlin is. Next month, we are going to take Merlin to different places in the area and shoot a picture of him in a setting. We are going to ask people where they think Merlin is today. We can do these things three or four times a week. We are going to start engagement next week. One thing Merlin likes to do is listen to music, anything that has to do with tubas. One thing, next week, we are going to ask people, “Merlin needs some new stuff for his mp3 player. What songs would you recommend that Merlin would listen to?” I don’t know what kind of a response we will get; I hope people will respond to these things. I’m doing something that is a little different. Hopefully it’s fun. I think we could cross the line where this is goofy, but I think it has produced pretty well. It’s an interesting thing. It needs to have a disclaimer at the end. It will be real fun.
 Hugh: It’s inter-generational. It will involve the board, too.
 Clark: What we are trying to do is we are trying to branch out and we are going to ask the board to communicate it when it’s posted, to invite friends to listen, to invite other people to do these things. It’s not just a one-off post. It’s a “Tell your friends about Merlin. He’s coming back next week for another webisode.” he will not be on all the time. It takes too long to shoot these sequences and edit them, but he will show up probably around Halloween and Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and whenever else to make an appearance.
 Hugh: You heard about Merlin right here, folks. Merlin the Tuba. We have two minutes left.
 *Sponsorship message for Wordsprint*
 What do you want to leave people with? A thought or a challenge or some perspective.
 Clark: My voice is giving. That’s what happens in the summer. I go four months without talking. I can’t do it. I think one thing is knowing who your target audience is. When I say “target,” that’s usually about a ten-year range. It will get you in the ballpark. You need to know who your people are, how they think, what they think of your organization, and then give them things that help them. Don’t just promote yourself. It’s part of it. But do things that help them, help the community. I think it’s understanding what’s in the minds of your constituents is the best place to start.
 Hugh: Well, Dr. Clark Greer, wonderful tidbits, wonderful, useful information. Russell, thank you for your faithful attendance and helpful perspectives and good questions. Thank you.
 Clark: Thanks for having me.
 Russell: It’s always a pleasure. It’s about creating an experience for everybody that is involved with you. That is what Clark is doing with the symphony. That’s the thing to remember with marketing. We are creating an experience for all the people we are serving.
 Hugh: Thanks, Clark.
 Clark: Thanks for having me.
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        <![CDATA[<h1>Using An Effective Integrated Marketing Communication Mix In Nonprofit Organizations</h1> <p><strong>Clark Greer</strong> is the founder of Clark Greer Communications, LLC, a consulting firm that focuses on assisting nonprofit organizations with marketing communications and public relations. He holds a Master’s Degree in Broadcast Journalism from the University of Southern California, and a doctorate in Communication Studies from Bowling Green State University. Clark’s full-time job for the past 20 years has been as a communication professor specializing in public relations, strategic communication, TV news, and communication research. In addition, he and research colleagues have published nearly 20 studies in academic journals, and have presented more than two dozen papers at research conferences.</p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, everyone. Welcome to this edition of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Today, we’re talking about that topic we call marketing. Marketing is, the older I get, the more complex it gets, but the more important it gets. It’s an area that we do not regard with enough importance, those of us that run nonprofit organizations. Russell, how are you doing today?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Beautiful day out here in Denver, Colorado. Partly cloudy. There is lots of activity taking place out here. We have folks that have been talking to me who are running nonprofits and are struggling to get the word out on what they’re doing. It’s hard to get support if nobody knows what you’re doing. I’m glad that Clark is here to share with us some ways to increase that visibility. That’s what it’s all about, isn’t it, Clark?</p> <p><strong>Clark Greer:</strong> Yeah, that’s right. That sounds nice. We’re out here in Virginia. I wish I was in a little bit of a cooler spot right now.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We were out on the parkway night before last, and it was in the mid-50s. It was luscious. Clark, we like to impose upon our guests to define who they are. Tell a little bit about yourself. You have this organization that you run to do marketing specifically targeted to nonprofits. You and I, however, met in one of those nonprofits where you serve on the board. You and I met there, and we started conversations which led to this interview. Talk about yourself and what has led you to this place to do this very specific thing that you do for nonprofits.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> This is like the digest size of this instead of a full version. I actually started out in radio when I was in high school. It clicked with me to do communication and spend several years on radio, doing radio news. Ended up ultimately picking up a graduate degree in broadcast journalism from a big university on the west coast. Ended up working in corporate communications, advertising, public relations, marketing communication, organizational communication, different types of organizations, both for-profit and nonprofit. About 20 years ago, I started teaching higher education. That is my full-time gig is teaching in a university. I have always liked to do things for organizations. When my wife and I moved to this area, I said, “Should I work at the orchestra, symphony orchestra that does anything marketing or organizational comm.” We went to a couple of concerts, made some connections, and that’s where I am today.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. It took me only a couple of conversations to determine that you had a very unique perspective on marketing. What is the name of your organization?</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Something that is not real creative, but it’s Clark Greer Communications. It was easy to come up with it. Then I could put my name out there, and it’s easy to remember that. For me, as I get older, remembering the name of the company is a lot easier.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re a professor. You teach communications.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> I do. I have taught for about 20 years in three different institutions in the country. I taught interactive media when the web was just getting going back in the ‘90s. I have taught public relations and strategic communication, and television news. A little bit of everything.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are going to explore this in the interview at some point. I had a pivot in my understanding of how you construct campaigns to let people know about the organization. We are specifically focused on the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra at the moment. When I moved here, people said, “Oh, we have an orchestra?” There was a big gap in awareness, even though the orchestra has paid for ads and they have a Facebook page and all of the things we customarily do. There is a large portion of the community that didn’t know about it. You were interviewing me about strategy. I had just recently done the first planning session for the board of the symphony. You interviewed me, and you said, “I want to give value to others in our newsletter and publicity.” Speak to that element a minute. We will unpack that throughout the interview because that is a unique perspective.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> I think the temptation is in market communication or PR or whatever we are doing is to make connections with our constituents and followers. In the case of the symphony or other performance organizations, it will be people attending or donating. Organizations have different types of needs. One temptation is we are going to advertise it, and we are going to say, “Here we are, come to whatever, or donate.” If it’s a nonprofit that does construction in a community for building, it’s “Come and see us.” I think what’s really important is to help the organization be relevant to the people they are trying to reach. That is what we are trying to do in different ways. A lot of it is promotion because we are trying to have everybody in this area know who the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra is. That is a big chore because it isn’t just the community, but there is surrounding communities. A lot of things we have to deal with. We are trying to give value back to people, so instead of just saying, “Come to our concerts,” it’s “How can we serve you as a community and an organization? What are the things you need that we can help you get better at?”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is such a different perspective. Here is a mistake I see commonly in social media. “Buy my stuff. Get my program. Let me coach you.” They are pushing their stuff rather than saying how I can provide value, how I can give you value. What is it you need? Having a conversation. One of the points that Russell commonly brings up is when we are interviewing people as donors or board members, find out what their passion is, find out what they want to do. When you said, “I want to create articles like this about strategy,” we teach people why it’s important. I would say that 90% of nonprofits I talk to have no strategic plan. What is your number, Russell?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It may be higher than that, as frightening as that seems, because about 82% of these organizations eventually go under. It’s a system. It’s who do you know, what are you bringing to people. It’s about the cause we are working toward. That is the place where people get disconnected. Where are people at? You have to meet the people who you want to support you where they are so your messages have to be placed in the right places as well. If you’re not conversing with people where they are, or talking to them about what matters, you become part of the greater chorus of noise that is out there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There are some obstacles here. There are so many messages people get every day. Clark, we now have a strategy that we are working on, and we will be doing the first level of clarity at the board meeting in a couple weeks. That gives you a foundational document to then work from to do some messaging. Strategy is important for your work as well, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Yeah. Let me just take 60 seconds, and I can talk about where we have come in the last year with the symphony. That might help provide some context for people listening or watching right now. We did a survey of who the people were, the characteristics of the people who were attending the concerts. Using the symphony’s mail list, we did a mail-out survey. They filled these things out. We did some number crunching. It gave us a better idea of perspective. We had to understand where they were coming from. More recently, you have jumped in with being able to look at the overall strategy. Where is the organization heading? Then paralleling that, and I know you and I have had conversations, and it has helped to be on the board to get some other input, but to look at it from a communications standpoint, everything is parallel. What I am trying to do from a communication perspective really needs to tightly fit with what’s happening as far as the organization, direction, financial attendance, programming, goes into what a performance organization does.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There are people who think that symphonies are dead. I’m finding there is a real resurgence in people coming back to church, people coming back to arts events, people wanting to find meaning in their lives. There is a service aspect to the performing organization, isn’t there?</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Yeah. When I was doing some initial research, I wanted to see what the tone was- For the classical arts is what people think of as symphony. It doesn’t have to be. There are small to large orchestras in the country who are doing pops and mixtures and interactive things. It’s just staying relevant. I am not sure if that is necessarily the reason why because you still have age segments that you deal with. It tends to be an older population, which I guess I’m now part of. You always think about, I'm still 28 years old. That is the case. My wife and I love music. She is involved with the symphony also. We go to symphonies. We lived in a city in another part of the country several years ago, where we had season tickets. We would look around and say, “We do see some young people, but it’s people bringing their grandkids.” You have to think long-term about how you can morph into something that doesn’t sacrifice your principles as an organization. I think music, classical music and what orchestras do, is as much education as it is entertaining people. How do you stay relevant in those things is what’s important. Bringing in younger people. I’m not talking about kids necessarily, but a middle-aged population who would really become interested in the orchestras for different types of reasons.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is interest there. I went to dinner with some people I didn’t know and sat at the end of the table with people I just met. One is a filmmaker out at Liberty in the cinema department who came from the BBC. High-level filmmaker. The other side of me was a young photographer, friend of our former board member and photographer Michael. His wife was a school musician teacher. She said, “Oh, we would love to have more interaction with the symphony. We would love for the kids to know more about it because they are eager for that kind of connection.” That is part of what we are putting into place with the strategy for the symphony is how we go back to the fundamental programs that people think we can’t afford to do anymore, but we really can’t afford not to do them anymore.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Exactly. If you look at one of the things that I have dealt with in teaching my students and when I work with organizations or individuals even sometimes, like you said, I typically deal with nonprofits, is what is the primary age segment that you really feel like this is the group we want to work with? You look at the fringe areas. If you have people who are 45-55, there are some characteristics like longevity in an area and ability to sponsor or donate or interest in the arts and find out where they are coming from. They also have children. One thing the Lynchburg Symphony does, and they have been doing this for a while, through some very generous funding of some foundations, is to do music in the schools. I think what you can do is you are not necessarily ignoring other age groups, older or younger. What you are doing is you have a core group and find ways of branching out to them through family members and those types of things.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Underlying this marketing thing, there is your expertise of teaching communications. Russell and I work with nonprofits and have done so for a number of years. I don’t know about you, but in 31 years, there has never been a circumstance where communication as a problem hasn’t come up. People think communication is an “it.” It’s an announcement in the church bulletin. It’s a flyer. Really, communication is the backbone of your plan. You have to communicate, but you have a system to communicate. What I see happen over and over again when I do strategies with boards is what I call a new architecture of engagement. People develop a new kind of relationship. Let me test this piece with you. My take on communication is the foundation is in relationship, then you can transfer information. Otherwise, information doesn’t transfer from one person to another. Talk about communication as the overarching thing of marketing and all of what we are doing here.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Is that going to me or Russell?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You. He will give you questions later.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Communication is really important, not just because I work in it. Obviously I am a  little biased. I think communication is important. When I worked in corporate years ago, I would look around, not necessarily the organizations I worked at, but I would get information and I subscribe to newsletters. I would see in the news where an organization or company would cut back its public relations or its community relations or whatever because they thought that was expendable and they didn’t need it. The problem is people have to know you are there all the time. In advertising, it’s top of mind awareness. When you go to the grocery store, you see things all the time. There are companies you see advertising, and you say, “Wow, they have been around for decades. They are stable from an economic standpoint. Why do they advertise?” It’s because there is always competition. Even in what we are doing in nonprofits is you have a lot of things that are competing for donor dollars, for sponsorship, for organizations that have foundations. You have to show yourself as vital and relevant in that community. We are dealing with things on a different level. It comes down to the sustainability of the organization.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There are a lot of tidbits in what you just said. Russell, what are you hearing here? Russell gives the real hard questions. I know you are formulating some stuff for him to comment on. I just demonstrated poor communication when he didn’t know the question was for him. Russell, what are you taking in there? You have some sound bites you want to play back.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Communication starts with how you talk to each other in the boardroom. That kind of spreads. It fans out from there as a nonprofit organization. It’s really easy to get stuck in the room and forget that the message has to fan out. There is a slightly different language you use for potential board members or advisors than you use for volunteers or donors or everybody has their different language for the same message. Communication takes a lot of work in that regard.</p> <p>The one thing that was bouncing around through my mind as we were unpacking that, I was thinking about both of you starting to work with the Lynchburg Symphony and starting to put the strategy and pieces together. What’s one thing you found out that was most surprising about- What did you learn that they were not doing that everybody missed?</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> It’s hard to say one thing. I guess my goal is when I look at this, and I think Hugh just alluded to it a few minutes ago, is you show up and say, “You have a symphony here in this town?” One of my goals is I want everybody to know the symphony is here. That takes the place of- We call it integrated marketing communication. I will structure it briefly. Years ago, you have advertising, public relations, marketing, communication. They operated in silos. The last few years, it has come together under IMC. Because a company may sell a product, and at the same time they have to do public relations. What is your attitude toward that? What are you saying? The same thing would be true for nonprofits like the symphony. You have to approach people on different levels multiple times.</p> <p>We use a mix of traditional media. We do things like direct mail. We do a lot of things digitally. We are doing more with social media. We do a lot on Facebook. We are doing some more things with other types of social media that I think will help. It is a building process. You can’t do everything all at once, and it has to be strategic. I don’t just want to jump and try something. The things we are doing today for communicating is over the next year, here is what we are going to do, and here is how we are going to do it. I have a big plan of the major things that usually revolve around concerts, but they can’t just do that. You can’t do a concert and people forget about you. We find ways of encouraging people to stay connected. We are doing some interesting things.</p> <p>Something is coming out this week. I am a little off the wall sometimes about ideas. I try to do something that is fun. We found that we were doing some testimonial videos of community leaders. We had one that had over 2,000 views. People love to look at videos. We know that from research. You can see what the status of an organization is when they do social media. Even webisodes and things like that. People love video. We are going to do something that is a little bit different. One of the things that we noticed because you were talking about where do you start, what are some of the things that are gaps. One of the things is we can have followers. We don’t do poorly on followers. We want to increase that of course. But we want interaction and engagement, where instead of people just looking at something, we want people to look at it repeatedly and tell their friends to connect with us. That is how it spreads out, exactly what you were talking about.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A lot of themes came out there. Contrast the difference between marketing and PR.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> It depends how you look at marketing. Pure marketing, a lot of it is business. It deals with pricing, product distribution, product development based on what a particular area needs. The idea of a market is usually where a company is, or it could be a fast food place or anybody selling something, the area in which they sell those products or provide those services. Then you have market trends, which are broader. A lot of it is the business side of it. How much do things cost over time? What are people using? They are product/service-based. Marketing people who are watching this may say, “That’s not purely it.” It gives us that idea.</p> <p>Public relations is trying to develop relationships with your constituents. It could be customers. It could be attendees. It could be donors, like Russell was talking about. It could be volunteers doing things. Russell hit the nail right on the head. You have the central message, but you communicate it in different ways to different avenues to those different constituents. That is exactly what it is. For public relations, you want to have things that are ongoing relationships where people rely on you to provide them with things in the community.</p> <p>An orchestra is more than a concert. What are we doing? I guess I can talk about it. We are now getting it out. We are going to be starting an instrument program. We are hoping that people in the community will donate instruments that have been in the closet or attic for years that either they or their kid played. You know there are some kids in our community who would love to get involved in music. We are just at the beginning phases this month to do some information. Next month, we will do the campaign in conjunction with National Back to School Month. We try to find some themes we can wrap our promotions around. That is one thing that will be coming up that our community will be hearing about here in the next few weeks.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We got a new logo for the symphony. They think that’s the brand, like most organizations. That is the image. Underneath that is the statement of the brand image. Who are we? It’s that brand promise. What is it that you get? That is an important part of your marketing, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Sure. When people see the logo, they will think things of it. In fact, when I teach these things about image development and maintenance, I will put up images on the screen and ask them what they think of this. I always put a variety of things. I know what their response is going to be because I read the news, and I know what people’s attitudes are to certain organizations and companies. I put those up and say, “What do you think?” I say, “Okay, here’s the thing. That’s the logo. It represents the brand. What is behind it? Who is it? What are their products like? What is the quality? What kind of services do you get?” Those are the marketing tangibles and intangibles, like your attitudes. When you see a logo, and you attach everything to it, you have to make sure you are maintaining the identity of what stands behind it. That is where your public relations come in. When people see it, do they have a good opinion or bad opinion? What do they think? If they look at something and say, “Wow, that’s a wonderful organization,” good. Now what that does is that tells people this is what this brand is all about. That is just an identity piece, but it does represent what that organization stands for.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> To have all of the stakeholders understand that because all of your team members are parts of your brand. They represent your brand.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> They do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have seen major companies, airlines in particular, that one of their employees is guilty of brand slaughter. You drag somebody off an airplane. That is big damage to the brand.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> We use those as examples when we talk about crisis communication. Here is how this happened. How do you deal with it? How many of you would like to be the public relations director for this company? Nobody wants to do it. Here’s the thing. With crisis, organizations at some point will hopefully have problems and not a crisis. If it’s a crisis, you are talking a whole different thing. There are different situations people get into. Crisis is a whole different ball game. What happens if you have good relationships with your constituents, if something comes up, or when it comes up, is that if you already have a positive image and relationship with your constituents, it’s much easier to go in, if the organization handles things the way they should and say, “This is an issue. We will fix it right now.” In history, we have seen good and bad examples of that. That is why companies and organizations have to think broadly of an employee representing the company.</p> <p>I tell students that. When you do an internship from this institution, when you are out there, you are not just doing an internship, or when you get a job because the person who hired you knows where you went to school, you realize you represent them. When you do an internship someplace, you have to think about, “I’m not just here doing a job for me.” They’re not really in the auspices of the institution. Or if it’s an organization, somebody who is doing fundraising or development, maybe the relationship is different than an employee, but still, people know you are attached to that organization. How you handle yourself and respond to situations is crucial.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What it opens up for me is we think of marketing only as external. I’m thinking that we have a lot of nonprofits where the board isn’t as engaged as they want to be, as the leader wants them to be. Plus we are not fully in tune with those rubrics you were talking about. What do we stand for? What is our brand promise? How do we make decisions? How do we come together and represent the organization and community? There is a piece internally.</p> <p>Russell, you and I have worked with a number of organizations. In your 11 years for the reservation, you have multiple chiefs. Was there reidentifying of some of these anchor brand identity pieces with a new leader? How did you adjust to that? How did the people inside get informed of what that was?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The tribal council meetings were open to everyone. Different groups on tribal council and different chiefs have different priorities. The key for me was to be, and I learned a lot, familiar with the overall culture and the history and to keep my eye on the things that were most important for the people in the community to provide them the best service I could possibly give them. There were key needs that people had as far as services, whether that was utility services, education, housing. I had to keep my eye on the big things. Provide affordable housing, make sure people had access to education and health care through our health clinics, make sure our facilities for cultural purposes were in good shape. It’s really keeping a focus on what the people in the community need.</p> <p>This is the challenge that leadership is up against. It’s about the people that you serve. This is how I was able to keep my wits about me in the face of a lot of changing political climates. It’s really important to have that DNA so that you know what the most important things are. There is just really- If you can do that, you can keep your eye on the prize. I think something  that a lot of organizations overlook, even in the face of that, people will look at your message, you do the best you can to be clear about who you are, but people are going to make decisions on your brand. They may interpret what you’re doing completely differently. People will brand you if you don’t brand yourself. People will brand you. It’s inevitable that people form their own opinions.</p> <p>One of the things I was also thinking about as we have been unpacking this is putting the message out there and being consistent and being true to yourself. I was curious as to some of the things that you guys put in place as you built the strategy that were not there before to make sure that the messaging is clear across all of the platforms you deliver. Clear and consistent.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Clark has seen the strategy. He wasn’t there that day. He had a poor excuse. I think he was in Europe.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> I had to go 6,000 miles away to avoid a meeting.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> He is checking out the other symphonies.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Your point is as usual on target, Russ. We don’t know who we are. We can’t communicate who we are because we haven’t drilled our values. We started talking about guiding principles. How do we make good decisions in this container? We also drilled down on why we exist. We think sometimes the arts are expendable. It’s a leisure activity. But really, if you look- When somebody wants to move into a community for a corporate job or a teaching job, they ask about the arts. Is there a symphony? Are there these arts groups? It’s a backbone of the community in many ways. It’s an essential part of a healthy life.</p> <p>Clark, what you’ve read from what we have developed so far, it’s in the process of getting tweaked in the next couple weeks, do you want to respond to some of what Russ was talking about? What are your ideas about taking what we have created so far and helping us with that and then taking it forward and communicating externally? I think communicating internally. We need to remember who we are internally.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Employee communication or organizational communication. There are different entities of that. Sometimes it’s employees, and sometimes it’s volunteers. There are different relationships between people who are involved inside. One of the things that is important is to make sure that everybody inside, as you were saying, understands what the message is. One thing we will be developing, and I do this on vacation, so don’t tell my wife I did thinking, she says that you’re not supposed to think on vacation.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> She doesn’t know about this broadcast.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s our secret.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Don’t tell my wife that I actually thought. It’s good because when I’m home, I’m doing stuff. The day to day work. When I’m on vacation, I can clear my mind and think a little bit. One thing I wrote down, and I keep notes on my Smartphone, I moved from taking notes on paper to jotting notes on my phone, that way it doesn’t get lost, I hope. One thing I said is, “What is the message?” We have to have a central message. I think that will come out of that. The thing about strategic planning and a strategic communication plan with that and a marketing plan, they don’t happen instantly because- The other thing is they can’t happen too fast. Some of the things we do with communication, I need to think about doing next week. A lot of times, we get in a hurry, and we want to be intentional. We want to know where we are headed and why. As we work over the next year, it evolves into something that we know exactly what it is. Having a center of communication was top on my list. What are we trying to say? Who are we trying to reach? What is the core message that we have? Who are our constituents we want to reach and their characteristics? Now we can mold that communication plan around who those people are.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> One of my principles I teach organizations I work with is at the end of the meeting, I use storyboards. I have two storyboards up. One is an action plan. What are the tangible actions we are going to do? Who is the champion? When are they going to do it? We tend to talk about all of these great things, but we never assign it to a person or give them a deadline. That makes sure it gets traction.</p> <p>The other board is a communication board. We have come up with 90 minutes of some important work. Don’t you think somebody needs to know something? It’s a specific message. We take that for granted. We just think it will go to the world. When we start thinking about what the specific messages are, who needs to know, and who will tell them, it’s a whole different ball game. It’s amazing to me how many people don’t think they need to do that.</p> <p>One project, I was working with a law firm, and they had dismissed a partner. I said, “Let’s do this communication board.” They said, “Nah, everybody will know.” I said, “Humor me.” They hadn’t told his secretary. They hadn’t told the bar association. They hadn’t told the magazine subscriptions and all those periodicals. They started drilling down. There was a lot of people that needed to know something. We had to assign somebody to do that. We don’t think about communication as a process, as a connection, do we?</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> No, that’s exactly right. I think companies that do well, I haven’t worked for a lot of companies, but I have worked for a number over the years. I’ll give you an example of the positive side of what you were talking about.</p> <p>I worked for a big hospital on the West Coast many years ago in their PR department. They were very good about informing employees. They wanted to make sure everybody knew all the time what was going on. They would do every quarter an 11” x 17” and another panel of that with pictures and captions to the department so that everybody could see what everybody was doing. And everybody loves pictures. This is all pre-digital, so everything had to be in print. Along with the paychecks is once a month, there was a stuffer, 8.5” x 11” double sided, with little snippets of information going on in other places of the facility. It was a big place. I always felt I was well-informed. You were informed on capital development. Every year, they did an annual report. I helped with some videos when I was there. They would show the videos in small group settings, and there would be an administrator who would do a Q&amp;A. They had different levels and layers of information that people constantly felt they were being communicated with. The department I worked in produced some amazing stuff. I think it’s because we had the freedom to do it, the support to do it, and we all felt we were a part of an organization even though it was huge because they did such a good job communicating.</p> <p>Companies today that we see that are really successful, they are the ones who do interesting things with employees. Some of the tech companies that have been on the news over the past ten years, people feel comfortable, they know each other. It’s when those things don’t happen where organizations can get in trouble. You have to start with your employees or volunteers, etc.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. That is part of the culture creation.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Yes, it is.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I am going to give you back some stuff in case you are grading my understanding. Integrated Marketing Communications, that is the umbrella for all of this.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Yes. It’s everything. It includes everything that years ago would have been separate. It has marketing communication, advertising, public relations, anything that a communication functions. Because it has the word ‘marketing” in it, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s traditional business marketing. Although it could include that. Somebody goes out and buys a car. You want to make sure they’re happy. You want to make sure they come back in two years to buy another car or tell their friends. Everything is connected. Now we are not dealing with traditional print and broadcast media like we were doing or direct mail although we still might do those things. The world is changing. We have 24/7 through social media and websites and digital content. You have to do different things. That is what is tying it together. Digital has brought those different fields together.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It really has.  We see people do things poorly. Speak to that side of it a minute. The biggest mistakes people make in their communications and integrated marketing, including social media. What are the biggest negatives that you see out there?</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> You and I have talked about this. I think I might have actually included it in the article I wrote for your magazine. One thing is assuming just because you put it out there, people are going to see it. One issue that organizations need to do is find ways of driving people to the social media. You can have some really creative, nice things. Maybe people will share it. It’s like having a great website and nobody knows you exist. Sometimes it’s traditional media, and it’s using different ways. In advertising, radio and television. We would call it cross-promoting. A local TV station runs an ad in a newspaper, or they may run a preview thing on a radio station. That has changed a bit because of digital. Basically, it’s finding different ways to communicate with your constituents so they know you’re there. That’s a big problem. The first solution is we can do a social media site. Great, how are people going to find out about that? Hadn’t thought about that. That is part of the problem: trying to get people to do it. You have to be consistent about posting. I’ll post today, and then whenever. People forget about you. It has to be constant. If you are going to make a commitment to social media, it’s a big job to do that. Anything digital, like websites, Oh, I did my website. When did you last update it? Two years ago. Okay. That’s not going to work. If you’re committing to digital communication, that’s one of the biggest problems is realizing now you have committed yourself to a lot of time and energy to come up with things that are fresh and interesting for your followers.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We want to track our success in seeing how many followers we have. That’s like how many hits we have on a website. He said, “Hits is an acronym. It’s how idiots treat success.” You don’t want hits; you want conversions. You want people to do something.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Yeah, what are people doing with that?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We want people to enjoy the symphony. We want them to enrich their lives. They do that by attending concerts. There are other ways. We are expanding our volunteer pool. I say “our.” I am not part of the board, but I can declare here publicly that I am inside because I have been invited to be a guest conductor this year. Russell, I don’t know if I shared that with you, but I get to do the Christmas gig in the newly renovated Academy Theatre, which was a vaudeville theatre in the old days. Here’s an interesting fact. It will be the first time in history that we know of that the theater will be integrated. It hasn’t played to an audience since the time it was segregated. We have the first concert in there during that opening week. It’s a multiple pleasure.</p> <p>Of all this stuff we have unearthed, do you have one of those reflections or a good question for Clark before we go to our closing segment here?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is all exciting stuff. As a symphony, the opportunity there is to bring the next generation into music because this is something that is being taken out of the education system through funding or other things. I commend the symphony for doing that. Donating instruments, keeping people interested, bringing them into the fold to keep that next generation, to keep adding fuel to the fire as it were because there is a lot there. I feel it’s important to get people the tools they need once you put the strategy together so that everybody is singing off of the same sheet of music. If the symphony can’t appreciate singing off the same sheet of music, who can? Everybody has the same things to work with. For the different types of media, they all have to work together. Different audiences are in different places. Your younger people may be on various social media platforms. It’s getting an understanding of which mediums are going to work best. Instagram is starting to explode. That’s why Facebook acquired it. Just to have people see different pieces of music and those types of things will probably pique their interest and teach them things about classical music. Here in Denver, we have the Denver Performing Arts Center, and we have the Colorado Symphony and theatres where plays are conducted. That integration and partnership among different people, the opera house is down there, really helps. That collaboration and cooperation is a good thing as well.</p> <p>It’s a constant thing to create the type of communication that is going to get the message out to people. That’s important. Traditional media is not dead. There are a lot of things with broadcast, with radio, everything is working together. It’s figuring out where the people you want to reach are and getting to them. I know you’re early in the process, but what are some of the tools that you guys have created up to this point that your staff can use to get the message out about the symphony?</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> We are trying to use both traditional and digital. Some types of media, especially for a small market and small organizations, are a little harder. Television and radio, because of the cost. We are increasing our media relations, and we have had some really good response from local media of helping to talk about things we are doing. It’s finding interesting things that maybe they don’t know that much about. Part of that, like you’re talking about, traditional media is not dead, it’s just organizations have to inform and educate the media. They are one of your publics. Letting them know here is what is coming up.</p> <p>One of the things we just implemented on the website a month and a half ago is I added a newsroom. The newsroom will have, right now we have just a few things up there, but it will have articles from the newsletter that will be posted throughout the month. We will take our major articles. It will have all of our press releases. What we want to do is create from a media relations side the idea that media can go there, and they will see what is happening and connect with it. We are getting more into Twitter. People use Twitter a lot for media and news sourcing. We are trying to build those types of things so we can be a resource for the local print and broadcast media.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This Integrated Marketing Communications that you’re educating us on today, how will you communicate the importance of what we’re doing to the board, for instance?</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> I think organization, I like to do big picture. I can do the little things. I really enjoy that. I’ve had a great time, this little thing with the tuba is coming out here this week, and I hope you like it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I think it’s a great idea. Before we stop, I want you to talk more about that. It’s a brilliant idea. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> It will be up on Facebook here in the next day. So what I like to do is I like to look at the big picture. That’s why you and I talk frequently, or communicate about direction. That’s important. I have to get a sense of where we are headed and what the organization wants to do. I won’t go into an organization and say, “Hey, these are all my ideas.” That’s not how things work, especially today. Things have changed a lot. You have a lot of collaboration between organizations and companies and their agencies, their consulting firms. It’s about the organization. What I’m trying to do is serving you with my background and things I think are going to work better. What I try to do is look at the big picture. What are the things we absolutely need to do?</p> <p>This year, we know we have five upcoming concerts, I believe. We are doing five concerts over the year. I look at that and I say, “All right, there are certain things that need to be done.” We will always do media relations. We always do direct mail. We do social media. In between that is other little things we are going to be doing, like we talked about the instrument donation. I’d like to see us have more relationships with other local nonprofits and organizations. We are looking at one aspect of that. Had some conversations with an organization who has a lot of social media followers. It’s a great organization. You and I talked about sharing resources and doing things when we visited a few weeks ago. I think that helps everybody, especially in a small market. It really makes for a unified community. Essentially, even though we are doing different types of things, we are all here to service this town and to find the best ways we can of making this place better. That’s really what we are all about. Sometimes you can partner up with people and do those things, or at least do things in cooperative ways, maybe not official partnerships, but do things that help each other to help the community.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. We are a social benefit organization. Nonprofit is a dumb word. Talk about the tuba just a minute before-</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Okay. I like to periodically come up with some wild ideas. I got a tuba. I have had this tuba for three years. I played tuba for about 35 years. I have played in orchestras. Nothing official. There are people who are far better equipped than me. I am not a degreed professional as it relates to that, but I do enjoy playing. I have played in community bands and things. I really enjoy it. I have this tuba. My wife named it. She is a harpist. My wife is the harpist for the Lynchburg Symphony. She has a couple harps. She has named her harps. She finds out that every harpist names their harps. She named my tuba. I said, “Let’s have some fun for social media” because we want to increase engagement. We found out over the last year that people love to watch videos. Most of them are storytelling videos. I made a little video to promote the new newsletter that is coming out this week. I did a promo, and 400 people have watched it. Oh, wonderful. People love videos. You read all the data on this stuff. Even things that don’t really have a message more than “Come and look at this.”</p> <p>We personified my tuba, so he has his own episodes. His name is Merlin. What we are going to do this month is each week, because it takes so long to produce these things, they are a minute and a half, but it took me four days to produce these segments. We shot stuff. It takes an hour and a half to do these things. I have a very good friend who is an old radio guy, he is not as old as I am, but he has been in radio a long time. He teaches in that area. I said, “Would you do a voice for me?” He did the voice of Merlin. It sounds great. This month, each week, we have something that acquaints people who follow us with who Merlin is. Next month, we are going to take Merlin to different places in the area and shoot a picture of him in a setting. We are going to ask people where they think Merlin is today. We can do these things three or four times a week. We are going to start engagement next week. One thing Merlin likes to do is listen to music, anything that has to do with tubas. One thing, next week, we are going to ask people, “Merlin needs some new stuff for his mp3 player. What songs would you recommend that Merlin would listen to?” I don’t know what kind of a response we will get; I hope people will respond to these things. I’m doing something that is a little different. Hopefully it’s fun. I think we could cross the line where this is goofy, but I think it has produced pretty well. It’s an interesting thing. It needs to have a disclaimer at the end. It will be real fun.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s inter-generational. It will involve the board, too.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> What we are trying to do is we are trying to branch out and we are going to ask the board to communicate it when it’s posted, to invite friends to listen, to invite other people to do these things. It’s not just a one-off post. It’s a “Tell your friends about Merlin. He’s coming back next week for another webisode.” he will not be on all the time. It takes too long to shoot these sequences and edit them, but he will show up probably around Halloween and Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and whenever else to make an appearance.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You heard about Merlin right here, folks. Merlin the Tuba. We have two minutes left.</p> <p>*Sponsorship message for Wordsprint*</p> <p>What do you want to leave people with? A thought or a challenge or some perspective.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> My voice is giving. That’s what happens in the summer. I go four months without talking. I can’t do it. I think one thing is knowing who your target audience is. When I say “target,” that’s usually about a ten-year range. It will get you in the ballpark. You need to know who your people are, how they think, what they think of your organization, and then give them things that help them. Don’t just promote yourself. It’s part of it. But do things that help them, help the community. I think it’s understanding what’s in the minds of your constituents is the best place to start.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Well, Dr. Clark Greer, wonderful tidbits, wonderful, useful information. Russell, thank you for your faithful attendance and helpful perspectives and good questions. Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Thanks for having me.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s always a pleasure. It’s about creating an experience for everybody that is involved with you. That is what Clark is doing with the symphony. That’s the thing to remember with marketing. We are creating an experience for all the people we are serving.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thanks, Clark.</p> <p><strong>Clark:</strong> Thanks for having me.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Sarah Quarantotto: The Story of Miriam's House</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/sarah-quarantotto-the-story-of-miriams-house</link>
      <description>Sarah Quarantotto: The Story of Miriam's House - Ending the Cycle of Homelessness
 Sarah Quarantotto joined Miriam’s House in 2010, after working for a number of years in the Lynchburg area with local social service and mental health agencies.  She has immensely appreciated the opportunity to lead an organization with such a rich history of empowering families and individuals made vulnerable by homelessness.  She has a Bachelor of Science in Psychology and a Master of Social Work from Virginia Commonwealth University.  When not working to end homelessness, Sarah is spending time with her husband, Jeremiah, and their two children exploring the outdoors and beauty of Central Virginia.
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to today’s Nonprofit Exchange. Today we are going to tell a story of a very successful nonprofit, and it happens to be in the city where I live, Lynchburg, Virginia. Russell, how is it out in Denver today?
 Russell Dennis: Nice and toasty. Beautiful blue skies. It’s been clouding over very quickly in the afternoons. We are approaching three figures out here. It’s been good because my tan will start to pop.
 Hugh: We are in the mountains of western central Virginia, and it is a lovely day. Overcast and threatening to rain. We have the old mountains here, the ones that have been rained on and smoothed off. You have those young mountains. We have been on an adventure interviewing some really interesting people. I just met Sarah Quarantotto. Did I say that right?
 Sarah Quarantotto: Yeah. Yep.
 Hugh: Just met Sarah last week at my rotary meeting, where she was presenting. I was really impressed with the story about this nonprofit she is the executive director for. I asked her to come on and tell the story from the leader standpoint. Where was the organization? Where is it now? Sarah, tell us a little bit about yourself and what your passion was for wanting to do this job.
 Sarah: My name is Sarah Quarantotto, and I am the executive director of Miriam’s House. I have been a social worker here in central Virginia for about 15 years. After finishing my Master’s in Social Work, I came to work at Miriam’s House as the Clinical Director. I really had the opportunity to be on the front lines working with homeless individuals. Two years after that, I was offered the Executive Director job, which I was really honored to accept.
 Hugh: Tell us about why you accepted it.
 Sarah: When you are working in an organization with such an incredible impact, the leadership really matters. When there was a change in leadership and an opportunity to become that leader, I thought it was a really great opportunity to continue the good work of Miriam’s House, but also to grow and expand that work. I was really happy to be able to have that opportunity.
 Hugh: Our audience for this podcast and this video is typically people like you, people sitting in the chair of leading an organization. It might be a ministry. It might be a community-based charity, a membership-based charity, a cause-based charity. They are all kinds of different operations. The anchor to it is leaders make things happen.
 I am going to ask you a couple of questions. You have a background in social work and you are doing leadership. Those are different skillsets. Before you do the question, talk about the impact. You mentioned the impact on the homeless. Where was this organization when you started? Where is it now? You gave some statistics last week in your presentation that were really important.
 Sarah: Miriam’s House, when I first came here, we operated a transitional housing program. For 20 years, we had a program on site that provided housing for 11 households at a time. The great thing about homeless response nationally is that the concept of programs responding to homelessness have expanded beyond facilities, beyond four walls of a facility, and really into the community. By looking at different models of intervention, we have been able to grow astronomically. Back in 2008, pre-recession, we served 33 individuals. This year, we are slated to serve over 300. That is a 900% increase. That meant we had to think outside the box and think about new ways and accept best practices that were happening in other communities, even though they had not occurred here in Lynchburg.
 Hugh: You spoke of different levels of service. What do those look like? What is the impact? You also spoke about how people don’t return to homelessness. Talk about the impact and the different levels, will you?
 Sarah: Yeah. I think back in the ‘90s and early 2000s, the homeless response provided through Miriam’s House and many organizations was a one-size-fits-all approach. Every person or household that became homeless was given the same level of support and resources. What we have realized is that that is really unnecessary. Everyone’s story is different. Their circumstances are different. Instead of doing a one-size-fits-all approach, we triage our resources. We have intensive services that do occur on-site here to minimal or soft-touch resources, where someone just needs assistance with connecting with a landlord that has reasonable rents and being that liaison between that homeless household and that landlord to get them back into housing. It is the gamut of homeless response that we can do: everything from providing long-term housing with long-term case management to a short-term intervention.
 Hugh: The impact of the work. You said many of the statistics. 96% and 100%. I was really paying attention. Russell, I hope you are impressed. People that are placed and people that don’t return to homeless situations.
 Sarah: Yeah, that’s great. So last year, 96% of the households we served moved out of homelessness and into safe, affordable housing in the community. That’s great. That’s our ultimate measure of success. We want to end people’s homeless episode in a way that you do that is to get them back into housing. We are concerned about long-term success. We don’t want folks to return to homelessness a year or two years after housing. We also track that data. Last year, we had 100% success in no household recidivating over a span of two years’ prior. That was really exciting because it means what we are doing is successful in the short-term of ending someone’s homelessness and in the long-term in that they are not returning to homelessness. That is really exciting.
 Hugh: There is a process piece of finding a house and getting into it. There is an emotional piece that helps people have an attitude of self-sufficiency. How do you work with people in that realm, helping them learn what they need to learn to be able to stay where they are?
 Sarah: Our approach is really about empowerment. Rather than having punitive services where we are having our case managers tell people what it is they need to do, we really meet with them to identify what it is they want to accomplish or how perhaps their homeless episode was impacted by something previous that we can mitigate by an intervention. For example, if someone was homeless because they had untreated depression and were unable to go to work because of that depression, which then led to them losing their apartment and having to go to a homeless shelter, we can work with that individual to identify that, get them into treatment, see a therapist or get on medication so that homeless episode can be prevented in the future. Working with each household to identify what it is that you need to be stably housed and not return to homelessness.
 We have flexible resources. We have a once-a-month after-care support group that meets where households can come back and receive peer support about anything from tenant rights and responsibilities to a resource in the community, back-to-school supplies or something like that. That is a great resource to help people stay connected.
 We also offer ongoing case management. In their home at the beginning, as soon as they first move into housing, because that is a fragile time, so working with them in the home to make sure they have what they need, furniture and clothing, that they understand their new community, that they have the bus routes. Long-term, that might be a phone call here and there, touching base and seeing how they are doing. Tailoring that response to allow households to recognize they are not alone, there is a resource out there, we really want them to be successful in the long term. That success is outlined by them and their own goals. We are here to support them in that.
 Hugh: People can find you at MiriamsHouseProgram.org. Give us some of the statistics. Your cost per client served has gone down dramatically over the years. Your successful rate of people who have stayed in a home. Give us some of those numbers. Those are incredible. The impact you are having on people’s lives.
 Sarah: Pre-recession, back in 2008, we were serving a homeless person at a cost of about $16,000 per person. Now, that is almost down to $2,000. That is really because we tailor the response appropriately. Certainly more expensive responses, longer-term supports are there for those who have had high barriers to housing, who have long episodes of homelessness. For those who really need a soft touch, that’s what we provide, which means we have more funds available to serve more households. Our growth, and the fact that we expanded so significantly, is not because our budget has increased tremendously; it’s because we are being a lot smarter with our resources that we have, recognizing that not every household needs an intensive resource.
 Hugh: Love it. Russ is going to have some good questions. He is taking this in. I want to move us. We have established how successful Miriam’s House in the work that you are doing in the city in Virginia that has the highest poverty rate in the whole commonwealth. 24.5% in Lynchburg. The work you are doing is one of many charities that is reaching out to help people regain power in their lives and help them have a better future. I was so impressed with your report, how you gave it and the work you are doing. You just do it. You don’t toot your horn or something. You just do it. I was quite impressed. You have a degree in social work.
 Sarah: That’s right.
 Hugh: And you’re leading an organization. Those are two different skillsets. When you first came to work, you were the social worker, I’m guessing. Now, that is still a skillset you have; however, putting on the leader mantle is a different skillset. Talk about that journey. How did you equip yourself for this leadership position that you’re in?
 Sarah: The great thing about social work as a discipline is that there is an understanding of a micro track, which is clinical in nature and talking more directly working with service individuals, but there is a macro track. Many individuals really think that social work is more about micro, one-on-one individual track. But actually there is this great macro track that talks about and educates on organizational change and system change and advocacy and capacity-building for different systems or models of care and community wealth-building or changing. The great thing about social work is that both of those aspects are part of the education. I had some great experience or some education in that macro piece, which is about making significant impacts. Even things such as data, which has become more important in the social work realm and social services organizations and human services organizations, to measure outcomes. Back in the day, it was sort of, I am going to do this intervention because it feels right to me. I like it. It seems like a good approach.
 And now, that’s flipped to what does the data show? Is this effective? Is this working? What are your actual outcomes? That has been appealing to me in that I was able to work individually with people and see an individual outcome. Someone who was no longer sleeping on the street, was able to have an apartment, was able to get a job. That’s really cool. In a leadership position, I am able to see how that translates into a big picture. I can see we have a 63% reduction in family homelessness in our community over the course of a year. That’s incredible. Even though that results in individual families who I may no longer know, I know that that makes a difference. Going from a direct service position to more of a leadership position, I am able to bring those personal experiences into leadership to know that the work we do to improve big-picture design and implementation means that more and more families and more homeless households are being impacted. I still have those images of those individuals and families in my head even though I am no longer working directly with them in their home or in a shelter.
 Hugh: That’s an effective model. You know how it works because you worked there. Supervising that and empowering that, you have first-hand knowledge of that space. That’s good. What were your challenges in coming up to speed and letting go of doing and empowering others to do? What were your challenges in that?
 Sarah: I think there is the piece of having to let go of some of that first-hand experience or interaction with clients. There is a part of having to trust the people who are now in those positions to continue that great work. That involves not only are we an organization dedicated to empowering our clients, but we also want to be dedicated to empowering our employees. A lot of that means I trust them to do the work they have set out to do. Supporting them, training them, but ultimately believing they are going to continue that mission of ending homelessness in the framework we have created at Miriam’s House, which is one of empowerment and support for our clients.
 Hugh: That’s awesome. I am going to shut up for a minute and let my co-host- He has been over here thinking of questions for you. He comes from a position of having been inside of a nonprofit doing funds development, and now he supports nonprofit leaders all over the place, like I do. Russell, do you have some questions for our guest today?
 Russell: I’d like to welcome you and thank you for coming in and sharing your experience with us. It’s very critical to give people in a stable place because then you can start to solve the other problems they have. The formula that you’re working by is perfect for what needs to be done. Homelessness is a tough issue. I have found myself in a coalition. I am in several coalitions that focus on homelessness here. Our biggest challenge is affordable housing.
 To get back to the work you are doing, having been on the ground, effective leaders or transformational leaders, as Hugh defines them, are people who know all of their audiences, and that includes the people they serve. Transformational leaders build good leaders around them. When everybody understands how what they do fits into the big picture, and they see those results, they get a broader understanding of what they are doing, and it works better. Just looking at the work you do and how you approach serving people and the people that you partner with, the collaboration piece is something you didn’t address that I love about what you’re doing. It’s an all-hands-on-deck kind of thing when you are dealing with something like homelessness. It’s not the dirty old guy in a raincoat you’re talking about. We’re talking about families here. It’s very important to do that. I know that homelessness, as it is measured all over the place, greatly understates what is there.
 Another thing about what you’re doing is that you are doing it right. You’re probably not serving as many people. Nonprofit leaders by and large do not have enough money and do not serve enough people for where they want to see people go in the community, in the direction they wanted to go in. But it is the effectiveness and efficiency with which you serve the people that you have. There are real stories behind the numbers that jump out so that people see that impact. That is remarkable. I commend you for that. It’s great. Being able to make that shift form social worker to leader of the organization is difficult because a lot of people that are in that field have a lot of difficulty talking about the value they bring. It is about value. You’re working in partnerships to transition people from where they are.
 In thinking about this, when you were asked to be the leader of this organization, what are the things you were doing- I know you probably did this as they interviewed you. What were the things that you were doing that they thought made you right to take leadership of the organization?
 Sarah: Taking the mission of the organization, which is of course to end homelessness, and expanding it beyond what the organization had always done. Leading the programs and making recommendations for new ways to still fulfill that mission of ending homelessness, but not being so tied to a certain program type in order to do that, I think the board recognized that, especially after the recession, when nonprofits either had the same resources or fewer resources, they realized that was something they wanted to embrace, which was exciting to me. Nobody wants to be the leader of an organization that is stagnant and stays the same and is not interested in adapting or growing. That was mutually exciting for the board and myself to recognize that we wanted to take Miriam’s House in a different and better way, but still further that mission of ending homelessness and not leaving that behind.
 Russell: It’s keeping your eye on the prize. That involves having what I call some tough conversations in the boardroom. Think of a time when you had a really tough conversation in the boardroom that really kicked you up to a new level. Are there some points where you had to have some tough conversations about a new approach or a specific program that was difficult, but once you had that conversation and navigated that, it took you to another level?
 Sarah: Back in the ‘90s, when Miriam’s House was formed, we served homeless families, but we defined those families as single moms with children. What we have done over the last several years is I have had to talk with the board about changing that family definition to include any household with children under the age of 18, whether that’s a grandma raising a grandchild, a single dad raising his two children, or two moms with their children. I think that was tough. A lot of individuals were really tied to the fact that Miriam’s House supported single moms that were homeless. Having to educate them that families sometimes look different. As an organization, we don’t want any child to be homeless, regardless of their family composition. Changing that definition of family to include any household with children was a big step for our board and for our organization because now, it allows us to serve every homeless family in our community as opposed to being narrow in our definition.
 Russell: One thing I have discovered in joining these coalitions here in Colorado in the Denver metro area is there is a segment of the population that have been coined as “housing unstable.” These are people who are working full-time, not necessarily eligible for services. Some may be on the verge or a paycheck away from homelessness. Others are couch surfing. They are working full-time or a combination of jobs to constitute full-time. They still don’t have enough resources to provide themselves with stable housing. We also have a segment of kids who are in the high schools who are homeless. They couch surf and come to school. Are you finding you have those populations in Lynchburg? If there are a significant number of them, what are the steps you have taken at Miriam’s House to help them?
 Sarah: As a community, we have noticed a growing trend of youth homelessness. That is what you mentioned. That is the unaccompanied, 18-24, many of them have aged out of foster care or an institution setting, and don’t have that family support to make that next step into adulthood. Next month, we are going to be expanding one of our programs, Community First, which is a rapid re-housing program for families, and we are also going to be serving unaccompanied youth with that program. That is what happened. We noticed that trend. There is a growing population. There is not an organization in Lynchburg that targets homeless youth, and so we are going to become that, which I think is really exciting. It’s a vulnerable population with some different challenges than the homeless families we are serving, but certainly real needs. We are excited to be serving that population in a few days.
 Russell: That’s wonderful that you came up with the resources and vision to do that. We are experiencing a lot of trouble. Our real estate market in the Denver metro area and throughout Colorado have hopped rent prices very high. We just had our very last homeless shelter that was in Jefferson County close down two weeks ago. There are no homeless shelters in Jefferson County, which has about 655,000 people. The shelter model is what we leaned on before, but it doesn’t really lend itself to long-term solutions. It’s basic Maslow. When people are worried about how to keep dry and eat, they can’t be concerned with higher pursuits. What is your feeling about affordable housing in Lynchburg? How are you incorporating that into your approach? Do you think the shelter model is dead?
 Sarah: That is two different things. What you are mentioning is the housing-first model. It stemmed in the last 10 years from the recession and recognizing we don’t have enough shelters or facilities to address homelessness. Those facilities often had poor outcomes. There was a lot of revolving door and people not necessarily ending their homelessness through going to a shelter, but prolonging it. There is a place for a brief short-term shelter, a crisis-oriented shelter that is short-term, I’ve lost my house and I need to go somewhere for a couple days. What we do here in Lynchburg and what many communities around the country are doing is then quickly working with that household to find housing, whether that’s affordable housing in the community, subsidized housing, or assistance through rapid re-housing. There certainly is a place for shelter, but I don’t think that place is a 30/60/90-day stay without an intervention. What our community does is we have set benchmarks. After two days of staying in a homeless shelter, a case manager needs to be meeting with that household, working on a housing plan, figuring out if they are going to need additional resources or do they just need support to get back into housing?
 That goes into your next point about affordable housing. If we want to get people out of shelter quickly, the way to do that is by having an affordable housing stock. Many of these individuals are still going to be poor. They either are already working and working a low-wage job, or we are helping them get employment, but that employment is probably not going to be the median income for our community or for any community. Affordable housing continues to be a problem for our community and many others, not just the quantity of affordable housing, but the quality, too. One of the biggest issues for our community is the condensed areas of affordable housing. When you have that only located in low-income neighborhoods, it does not provide opportunities for households to get out of poverty and to better themselves. As a community, I am part of a housing collaborative working to increase affordable housing, not just the quantity, but also the location of that housing, recognizing that having affordable housing in mixed-income neighborhoods will provide much more opportunity for those formerly homeless households than if they were going right from a shelter back into a poor neighborhood.
 Russell: There are all sorts of auxiliary issues like access to transportation. Of course, our transit district is at best a light rail. I am a light rail rider, but it’s not for my livelihood. It’s for my convenience. The people in the poorer neighborhoods do not have good access to that light rail. When you talk about condensing people in an affordable project, there has been a number of them built in various areas of the city where people who came in. We had men and women from the Second Chance Center, who are people who experienced incarceration, trying to recreate their lives. They secured funds to build something. There is a big community meeting, not in my neighborhood.
 One of the things that Close to Home is doing is reaching out to people to talk about homelessness and what it looks like because there is the old guy with the bottle of wine and the paper bag type of image who is just a wino, man under the bridge. That is the image people have about homelessness. A lot of homeless people look like you and I. You would never know in a thousand years that they are homeless. Trying to talk with people about that. Talk about some of the ways you folks have tried to explain what homelessness is and educate the community in order to get more support for what you’re doing.
 Sarah: I think a lot of that is creating that empathy. It’s allowing individuals who don’t interact with people experiencing homelessness to understand some stories or some faces. We did a photograph exhibit several years ago, “Faces of Homelessness.” It was very simple. It was showing the faces of the men, women, and children in our community experiencing homelessness. They were not the faces that community members expected. You’re right. It’s not the grizzly old man who has been on the streets for 30 years. Certainly, there are a handful of individuals like that, but by and large, it’s the five-year-old kid whose mom was a victim of domestic violence, and they had to flee their home. Or it was the 50-year-old woman who has worked a low-wage job her entire life and was laid off because the company moved, so she became homeless. Creating that empathy through photos and stories is an important piece of what we do. We have a large community luncheon every year with almost 500 attendees, and having a client speaker at that is always the most popular part of the event, better than the raffles.
 Being able to see someone face-to-face who has experienced homelessness, to realize they are just like you or I, but they had a crisis occur, whether that crisis was a house fire or domestic violence or the loss of a job, that crisis hit, they did not have the resources to sustain that, and they became homeless. Recognizing that it’s not always as easy as saying it’s someone’s fault, that they drank too much, or they were too lazy to go to work, understanding that’s not what causes homelessness. Crises can occur to any household. If the household does not have the resources to weather that storm, they will become homeless. Having those different events and opportunities to share that story really creates that empathy.
 The incredible thing is that the Lynchburg community is so supportive of the work we do. Our expansion and being able to add new populations and being able to continue our work is because they have that empathy and they understand that this is their community. They do not want people sleeping outdoors or on park benches. That is inhumane.
 Hugh: I am going to weigh in because you mentioned the stereotypical old guy.
 Russell: Hmm, wonder where that comes from.
 Hugh: I don’t know where that comes from. Sarah, this is remarkable. I am just realizing I don’t see a whole lot of people on park benches walking the streets in Lynchburg. Some cities, it’s just very much in your face. You mentioned there were nine programs that did similar work. Talk about collaborations. How do you work in conjunction with any kind of disciplines, any agencies in working with this demographic?
 Sarah: We have a great community collaboration among homeless response providers, not only jus those direct service providers, our homeless prevention, our homeless diversion, shelters, DV shelters, organizations like us that do those next step services. We have those at the table. We also have our auxiliary services: our social services, our mental health providers, our recovery providers, probation and parole, police offers, our school systems. We recognize we need everyone at the table informing policy, informing decisions. The great thing is that having all those different voices allows us to make sure there are no gaps in services, that we are serving every population. We have providers that are working specifically with veterans experiencing homelessness. We target families. Now we are going to be the youth provider. We have other organizations who work with individuals who are chronically homeless.
 Recognizing that not one organization needs to do it all. Instead, we need to build upon which organization is really great at this work, and let’s support them in that instead of duplicating or trying to compete. That is what we do as a homeless response system. We recognize what the gaps are, what we are doing really well, and also what do we no longer need. Maybe we no longer need this many shelter beds because we are doing a really good job at diverting or preventing people from becoming homeless. Let’s instead dedicate more resources to that so that way we can do a better job of preventing homelessness rather than just treating it. Those conversations can really happen when you have everyone at the table, so that has been really neat.
 Hugh: Preventing. Go ahead, Russell.
 Russell: Prevention work more than a pound a cure. Next time you’re out, Hugh, we can do a tour. I can show you where a lot of homeless people are. They are starting to appear in the burbs, away from Denver. They’re everywhere. Those conversations or those collaborations are magic because everybody works in their wheelhouse. But there is always more. In looking at the measures that you’re thinking about as far as prevention, if there was one thing that as a group these agencies could do that would be the most important thing for them to do as far as prevention, what would that one action be that you would have them take?
 Sarah: Create more affordable housing. We talked about it earlier. That’s the piece. Not only in preventing homelessness at the front end, but also in ending homelessness when someone becomes homeless. By and large, no one wants to become homeless. People are becoming homeless because they don’t have affordable housing. If somebody is already paying more than 50% of their income toward rent and they lose that job, there is no way they have a savings account to pay that next month’s rent when they were already paying more than their means. Having more affordable housing really would be the key in preventing many incidences of homelessness.
 Russell: That sounds either like like-mindedness or group psychosis. That’s what a lot of people are thinking in these parts. We have a real challenge with affordable housing because there is development going on everywhere. There is people making tons of money. There are moves being made by various city governments to clear away some areas to do some rezoning to allow for mixed-use commercial and affordable housing with land prices and housing prices going up. It’s a real challenge for us here. I hope it’s not as big there. The bigger the challenge, the bigger the mission. Your people are willing to cooperate. I just found out about agencies I didn’t even know about. There is a spirit and collaboration a lot of people are looking at because this is huge. There are people from all sides of town that are starting to look at this and say, “Ooh, we are in over our heads.” There is a lot more willingness to collaborate. I guess that is what Henry Kissinger meant when he said “The absence of alternatives clears the mind marvelously.”
 Sarah: Yep, sure.
 Hugh: Sarah, going forward, I’m sure as a leader, you have a vision for what this organization should look like in five years. Have you developed that in conjunction or have a process to think about that with your board?
 Sarah: Yeah. We do some great strategic thinking every few years. Three years with our board, to lay that vision, to say where we have come, where are we going. That has happened. Our growth has not just happened by accident. It has been strategic. What do we do really well? First, that was family homelessness. We improved that program until now we can serve every family experiencing homelessness. Then it was recognizing what was next. There is this youth homeless population that is not being served, so now we are going to grow that program. I think that will really continue. It is recognizing the dynamic changes of homelessness and what it is we can do to make a difference. If in five years from now, all of a sudden we see a spike in a different population experiencing homelessness, then we will address that population. We are remaining true to our mission of ending homelessness, but recognizing that might look different as circumstances change, as our community shifts or changes, or different populations become homeless. Or there is new interventions. The biggest thing for me is to remain flexible. Recognizing that in all that we do, we need to be working to end homelessness. That will look different, and we will be serving different people five years form now than we are serving right now.
 Hugh: As a side note, SynerVision gives away ten visioning or board evaluation sessions a year for local nonprofits. We can extend that to Denver if you wanted to, Russ. We meet with boards. It’s helpful to have somebody who is not inside to help boards think about what possibilities there are. You come backwards and think about how to get there.
 If you have a vision for the future, what are the biggest challenges in going forward with all of the things going on in our world today? What is the biggest challenges that Miriam’s House faces to achieve those goals?
 Sarah: There is difficulty in predicting things like the availability of federal and state funding for homeless response is a concern. Of course, a portion of our funding is through federal homeless response grants and state homeless response grants. That is for many of our partners across the country. The instability of that funding is a concern. Continued funding for things like subsidized housing and affordable housing development. That will be huge in the next several years, seeing the direction of the Department of Housing and Urban Development in creating more affordable housing in communities. Those big policy decisions are difficult to predict. They shape how communities address homelessness.
 Hugh: In your seat of leader, how do you continue to work on yourself, your skills, your abilities to grow this organization?
 Sarah: I think taking advantage of others in similar roles across the state and the country in forming those connections and those collaborations. Even just having open conversations about challenges they are experiencing, things they had to overcome. I am certainly not one to recreate the wheel. When we have added a new program or serve a new population, I have reached out to others who are doing good work and have asked for help, input, and advice. That has served me well and allows me to not to have to recreate the wheel or learn from mistakes, but rather to really hone in on what has worked for others. I think that has been and will continue to be helpful tool.
 Hugh: We are coming to the last minutes of our conversation. We try not to go over an hour even though we get intrigued by the good work of the people we interview. I think many people are going to find this inspiring, hearing your story. Some people learn by tactical, how to do this, how to do that. Other people learn from stories. Some people learn from both. This has been a good sharing time to inspire people. I want to ask a question, and then I will do my sponsor promotion, and then come back to you for a final thought as we close out the interview about what would you share with other people that you think they ought to know about leadership and building an organization. What is a challenge, a tip, or a charge for people who are listening to this podcast?
 You talk about the groups that you get together with, like the veterans, the groups that have something in common. Do you also work with groups that aren’t doing the same thing? Do you work with Food for Families or some of those other charities that work with these people in different ways? If so, how do you build these collaborations?
 Sarah: Yeah. Miriam’s House is not only a direct service provider, but we are also the lead agency for homeless response in central Virginia. Part of that role is building those connections and building those collaborations and recognizing that we need everyone at the table, not just the homeless response providers, but those other organizations and entities. That is people like landlords who may have housing that we can advocate to become more affordable, or we can advocate for those landlords to offer housing to individuals with barriers, like eviction. That collaboration is one on one with meaningful individuals and entities and encouraging them to become a part of the solution to homelessness. It’s also a larger thing. When there is a recognition of good work being done, people want to join that. Over the last several years, the homeless response system, of which Miriam’s House is a part of, has received some great recognition that we are making some good progress, we have done some good work, and so people, organizations, businesses want to be a part of that.
 Hugh: It takes good leadership. Because of your demeanor and your willingness to talk and share, you attract similar people to you who would want to do that kind of work. You’re not in this protective secret operation. You’re doing something that is going to attract like-minded people. You can’t say that for every segment of charities in any community, not even Lynchburg. There are some segments that aren’t collaborating.
 We are headed toward opening a center at the University of Lynchburg. SynerVision is a partner in that project, along with Central Virginia something for Excellence and Nonprofit. We are going to build a center. It’s partly helping equip leaders with skills for board and funding, but also a place to come and broaden the scope of collaborations. I’m thinking you ought to be in that conversation to help us think about how that would work because there are a lot of charities that don’t have this level of synergy that we want to help bring together, and also have a listing for everybody of who does what. There is not a global listing resource that is up to date so any agency knows how to refer to people. Just a heads up, we’d love to have you in that conversation sometime soon.
 Sarah: Great. I would love to be part of that.
 *Sponsor message about Wordsprint*
 Hugh: You spoke about grants, Sarah, but I’m sure donors are a significant part of your funding as well and could be even more.
 Sarah: That’s true. I think that’s one thing that a lot of organizations have increased their efforts to because we don’t have a lot of control over state and federal grants, but we can certainly build relationships with our community donors.
 Hugh: This has been very helpful and informative. I appreciate your time today. As we leave this session, what thought or challenge would you like to share with other leaders out there who haven’t quite gotten to the place that you have? Or who have gotten to a good place and want to make sure they stay current with their skills.
 Sarah: Staying connected to the history of an organization and staying connected to the mission and the beauty that happened before, but also not being so tied to that history that there is an unwillingness to change and to grow. What has been great about my experience at Miriam’s House is that ability to honor the past while also really looking forward to the future and honoring that past by changing for the future.
 Hugh: Russell, do you want to give us a wrap as we are leaving here?
 Russell: Thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us here about an important matter. It’s really about partnerships. I think the private sector becomes a bigger part of that as we go along because when you talk about land and real estate, you’re talking about real money and profit. It’s important to get those people who resonate with your message on board to understand that this is impacting people they may know. Thank you for the brilliant work you’re doing. I’d love to talk to you again about a book I’m working on, profiling high-performance nonprofits because I think you’d fit there.
 I thank all of our friends everywhere for watching and listening. Sandy will want you to submit something to our magazine, and we’d love an article on this.  Not many people know much about homelessness, so it’s important they get a chance to learn more about that. Thank you to Sandy who always keeps us on track. We love it. Sandy is definitely looking forward to having an article. She will get that information to you on how to submit and what we look for. I look forward to seeing you soon.
 As always, you know Hugh and I have a lot of fun. This is the fun part of the job: meeting people like you and finding out what stuff you’re doing. It helps us recharge our batteries. We are in the transformation business. It’s about people. It’s about transforming lives. There is a bigger picture here. We need a lot of enlightened leaders like you to bring it to life for other people and to help us move on and create that legacy so no one is left behind.
 Hugh: Thank you, Russell.
 Russell: Not bad for a bald guy.
 Hugh: Not bad. Thank you, Russell. Thank you, Sarah.
 Sarah: Thank you.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7d407b34-b329-11eb-9f0f-9b37e89000a8/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Ending the Cycle of Homelessness</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Sarah Quarantotto: The Story of Miriam's House - Ending the Cycle of Homelessness
 Sarah Quarantotto joined Miriam’s House in 2010, after working for a number of years in the Lynchburg area with local social service and mental health agencies.  She has immensely appreciated the opportunity to lead an organization with such a rich history of empowering families and individuals made vulnerable by homelessness.  She has a Bachelor of Science in Psychology and a Master of Social Work from Virginia Commonwealth University.  When not working to end homelessness, Sarah is spending time with her husband, Jeremiah, and their two children exploring the outdoors and beauty of Central Virginia.
 Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to today’s Nonprofit Exchange. Today we are going to tell a story of a very successful nonprofit, and it happens to be in the city where I live, Lynchburg, Virginia. Russell, how is it out in Denver today?
 Russell Dennis: Nice and toasty. Beautiful blue skies. It’s been clouding over very quickly in the afternoons. We are approaching three figures out here. It’s been good because my tan will start to pop.
 Hugh: We are in the mountains of western central Virginia, and it is a lovely day. Overcast and threatening to rain. We have the old mountains here, the ones that have been rained on and smoothed off. You have those young mountains. We have been on an adventure interviewing some really interesting people. I just met Sarah Quarantotto. Did I say that right?
 Sarah Quarantotto: Yeah. Yep.
 Hugh: Just met Sarah last week at my rotary meeting, where she was presenting. I was really impressed with the story about this nonprofit she is the executive director for. I asked her to come on and tell the story from the leader standpoint. Where was the organization? Where is it now? Sarah, tell us a little bit about yourself and what your passion was for wanting to do this job.
 Sarah: My name is Sarah Quarantotto, and I am the executive director of Miriam’s House. I have been a social worker here in central Virginia for about 15 years. After finishing my Master’s in Social Work, I came to work at Miriam’s House as the Clinical Director. I really had the opportunity to be on the front lines working with homeless individuals. Two years after that, I was offered the Executive Director job, which I was really honored to accept.
 Hugh: Tell us about why you accepted it.
 Sarah: When you are working in an organization with such an incredible impact, the leadership really matters. When there was a change in leadership and an opportunity to become that leader, I thought it was a really great opportunity to continue the good work of Miriam’s House, but also to grow and expand that work. I was really happy to be able to have that opportunity.
 Hugh: Our audience for this podcast and this video is typically people like you, people sitting in the chair of leading an organization. It might be a ministry. It might be a community-based charity, a membership-based charity, a cause-based charity. They are all kinds of different operations. The anchor to it is leaders make things happen.
 I am going to ask you a couple of questions. You have a background in social work and you are doing leadership. Those are different skillsets. Before you do the question, talk about the impact. You mentioned the impact on the homeless. Where was this organization when you started? Where is it now? You gave some statistics last week in your presentation that were really important.
 Sarah: Miriam’s House, when I first came here, we operated a transitional housing program. For 20 years, we had a program on site that provided housing for 11 households at a time. The great thing about homeless response nationally is that the concept of programs responding to homelessness have expanded beyond facilities, beyond four walls of a facility, and really into the community. By looking at different models of intervention, we have been able to grow astronomically. Back in 2008, pre-recession, we served 33 individuals. This year, we are slated to serve over 300. That is a 900% increase. That meant we had to think outside the box and think about new ways and accept best practices that were happening in other communities, even though they had not occurred here in Lynchburg.
 Hugh: You spoke of different levels of service. What do those look like? What is the impact? You also spoke about how people don’t return to homelessness. Talk about the impact and the different levels, will you?
 Sarah: Yeah. I think back in the ‘90s and early 2000s, the homeless response provided through Miriam’s House and many organizations was a one-size-fits-all approach. Every person or household that became homeless was given the same level of support and resources. What we have realized is that that is really unnecessary. Everyone’s story is different. Their circumstances are different. Instead of doing a one-size-fits-all approach, we triage our resources. We have intensive services that do occur on-site here to minimal or soft-touch resources, where someone just needs assistance with connecting with a landlord that has reasonable rents and being that liaison between that homeless household and that landlord to get them back into housing. It is the gamut of homeless response that we can do: everything from providing long-term housing with long-term case management to a short-term intervention.
 Hugh: The impact of the work. You said many of the statistics. 96% and 100%. I was really paying attention. Russell, I hope you are impressed. People that are placed and people that don’t return to homeless situations.
 Sarah: Yeah, that’s great. So last year, 96% of the households we served moved out of homelessness and into safe, affordable housing in the community. That’s great. That’s our ultimate measure of success. We want to end people’s homeless episode in a way that you do that is to get them back into housing. We are concerned about long-term success. We don’t want folks to return to homelessness a year or two years after housing. We also track that data. Last year, we had 100% success in no household recidivating over a span of two years’ prior. That was really exciting because it means what we are doing is successful in the short-term of ending someone’s homelessness and in the long-term in that they are not returning to homelessness. That is really exciting.
 Hugh: There is a process piece of finding a house and getting into it. There is an emotional piece that helps people have an attitude of self-sufficiency. How do you work with people in that realm, helping them learn what they need to learn to be able to stay where they are?
 Sarah: Our approach is really about empowerment. Rather than having punitive services where we are having our case managers tell people what it is they need to do, we really meet with them to identify what it is they want to accomplish or how perhaps their homeless episode was impacted by something previous that we can mitigate by an intervention. For example, if someone was homeless because they had untreated depression and were unable to go to work because of that depression, which then led to them losing their apartment and having to go to a homeless shelter, we can work with that individual to identify that, get them into treatment, see a therapist or get on medication so that homeless episode can be prevented in the future. Working with each household to identify what it is that you need to be stably housed and not return to homelessness.
 We have flexible resources. We have a once-a-month after-care support group that meets where households can come back and receive peer support about anything from tenant rights and responsibilities to a resource in the community, back-to-school supplies or something like that. That is a great resource to help people stay connected.
 We also offer ongoing case management. In their home at the beginning, as soon as they first move into housing, because that is a fragile time, so working with them in the home to make sure they have what they need, furniture and clothing, that they understand their new community, that they have the bus routes. Long-term, that might be a phone call here and there, touching base and seeing how they are doing. Tailoring that response to allow households to recognize they are not alone, there is a resource out there, we really want them to be successful in the long term. That success is outlined by them and their own goals. We are here to support them in that.
 Hugh: People can find you at MiriamsHouseProgram.org. Give us some of the statistics. Your cost per client served has gone down dramatically over the years. Your successful rate of people who have stayed in a home. Give us some of those numbers. Those are incredible. The impact you are having on people’s lives.
 Sarah: Pre-recession, back in 2008, we were serving a homeless person at a cost of about $16,000 per person. Now, that is almost down to $2,000. That is really because we tailor the response appropriately. Certainly more expensive responses, longer-term supports are there for those who have had high barriers to housing, who have long episodes of homelessness. For those who really need a soft touch, that’s what we provide, which means we have more funds available to serve more households. Our growth, and the fact that we expanded so significantly, is not because our budget has increased tremendously; it’s because we are being a lot smarter with our resources that we have, recognizing that not every household needs an intensive resource.
 Hugh: Love it. Russ is going to have some good questions. He is taking this in. I want to move us. We have established how successful Miriam’s House in the work that you are doing in the city in Virginia that has the highest poverty rate in the whole commonwealth. 24.5% in Lynchburg. The work you are doing is one of many charities that is reaching out to help people regain power in their lives and help them have a better future. I was so impressed with your report, how you gave it and the work you are doing. You just do it. You don’t toot your horn or something. You just do it. I was quite impressed. You have a degree in social work.
 Sarah: That’s right.
 Hugh: And you’re leading an organization. Those are two different skillsets. When you first came to work, you were the social worker, I’m guessing. Now, that is still a skillset you have; however, putting on the leader mantle is a different skillset. Talk about that journey. How did you equip yourself for this leadership position that you’re in?
 Sarah: The great thing about social work as a discipline is that there is an understanding of a micro track, which is clinical in nature and talking more directly working with service individuals, but there is a macro track. Many individuals really think that social work is more about micro, one-on-one individual track. But actually there is this great macro track that talks about and educates on organizational change and system change and advocacy and capacity-building for different systems or models of care and community wealth-building or changing. The great thing about social work is that both of those aspects are part of the education. I had some great experience or some education in that macro piece, which is about making significant impacts. Even things such as data, which has become more important in the social work realm and social services organizations and human services organizations, to measure outcomes. Back in the day, it was sort of, I am going to do this intervention because it feels right to me. I like it. It seems like a good approach.
 And now, that’s flipped to what does the data show? Is this effective? Is this working? What are your actual outcomes? That has been appealing to me in that I was able to work individually with people and see an individual outcome. Someone who was no longer sleeping on the street, was able to have an apartment, was able to get a job. That’s really cool. In a leadership position, I am able to see how that translates into a big picture. I can see we have a 63% reduction in family homelessness in our community over the course of a year. That’s incredible. Even though that results in individual families who I may no longer know, I know that that makes a difference. Going from a direct service position to more of a leadership position, I am able to bring those personal experiences into leadership to know that the work we do to improve big-picture design and implementation means that more and more families and more homeless households are being impacted. I still have those images of those individuals and families in my head even though I am no longer working directly with them in their home or in a shelter.
 Hugh: That’s an effective model. You know how it works because you worked there. Supervising that and empowering that, you have first-hand knowledge of that space. That’s good. What were your challenges in coming up to speed and letting go of doing and empowering others to do? What were your challenges in that?
 Sarah: I think there is the piece of having to let go of some of that first-hand experience or interaction with clients. There is a part of having to trust the people who are now in those positions to continue that great work. That involves not only are we an organization dedicated to empowering our clients, but we also want to be dedicated to empowering our employees. A lot of that means I trust them to do the work they have set out to do. Supporting them, training them, but ultimately believing they are going to continue that mission of ending homelessness in the framework we have created at Miriam’s House, which is one of empowerment and support for our clients.
 Hugh: That’s awesome. I am going to shut up for a minute and let my co-host- He has been over here thinking of questions for you. He comes from a position of having been inside of a nonprofit doing funds development, and now he supports nonprofit leaders all over the place, like I do. Russell, do you have some questions for our guest today?
 Russell: I’d like to welcome you and thank you for coming in and sharing your experience with us. It’s very critical to give people in a stable place because then you can start to solve the other problems they have. The formula that you’re working by is perfect for what needs to be done. Homelessness is a tough issue. I have found myself in a coalition. I am in several coalitions that focus on homelessness here. Our biggest challenge is affordable housing.
 To get back to the work you are doing, having been on the ground, effective leaders or transformational leaders, as Hugh defines them, are people who know all of their audiences, and that includes the people they serve. Transformational leaders build good leaders around them. When everybody understands how what they do fits into the big picture, and they see those results, they get a broader understanding of what they are doing, and it works better. Just looking at the work you do and how you approach serving people and the people that you partner with, the collaboration piece is something you didn’t address that I love about what you’re doing. It’s an all-hands-on-deck kind of thing when you are dealing with something like homelessness. It’s not the dirty old guy in a raincoat you’re talking about. We’re talking about families here. It’s very important to do that. I know that homelessness, as it is measured all over the place, greatly understates what is there.
 Another thing about what you’re doing is that you are doing it right. You’re probably not serving as many people. Nonprofit leaders by and large do not have enough money and do not serve enough people for where they want to see people go in the community, in the direction they wanted to go in. But it is the effectiveness and efficiency with which you serve the people that you have. There are real stories behind the numbers that jump out so that people see that impact. That is remarkable. I commend you for that. It’s great. Being able to make that shift form social worker to leader of the organization is difficult because a lot of people that are in that field have a lot of difficulty talking about the value they bring. It is about value. You’re working in partnerships to transition people from where they are.
 In thinking about this, when you were asked to be the leader of this organization, what are the things you were doing- I know you probably did this as they interviewed you. What were the things that you were doing that they thought made you right to take leadership of the organization?
 Sarah: Taking the mission of the organization, which is of course to end homelessness, and expanding it beyond what the organization had always done. Leading the programs and making recommendations for new ways to still fulfill that mission of ending homelessness, but not being so tied to a certain program type in order to do that, I think the board recognized that, especially after the recession, when nonprofits either had the same resources or fewer resources, they realized that was something they wanted to embrace, which was exciting to me. Nobody wants to be the leader of an organization that is stagnant and stays the same and is not interested in adapting or growing. That was mutually exciting for the board and myself to recognize that we wanted to take Miriam’s House in a different and better way, but still further that mission of ending homelessness and not leaving that behind.
 Russell: It’s keeping your eye on the prize. That involves having what I call some tough conversations in the boardroom. Think of a time when you had a really tough conversation in the boardroom that really kicked you up to a new level. Are there some points where you had to have some tough conversations about a new approach or a specific program that was difficult, but once you had that conversation and navigated that, it took you to another level?
 Sarah: Back in the ‘90s, when Miriam’s House was formed, we served homeless families, but we defined those families as single moms with children. What we have done over the last several years is I have had to talk with the board about changing that family definition to include any household with children under the age of 18, whether that’s a grandma raising a grandchild, a single dad raising his two children, or two moms with their children. I think that was tough. A lot of individuals were really tied to the fact that Miriam’s House supported single moms that were homeless. Having to educate them that families sometimes look different. As an organization, we don’t want any child to be homeless, regardless of their family composition. Changing that definition of family to include any household with children was a big step for our board and for our organization because now, it allows us to serve every homeless family in our community as opposed to being narrow in our definition.
 Russell: One thing I have discovered in joining these coalitions here in Colorado in the Denver metro area is there is a segment of the population that have been coined as “housing unstable.” These are people who are working full-time, not necessarily eligible for services. Some may be on the verge or a paycheck away from homelessness. Others are couch surfing. They are working full-time or a combination of jobs to constitute full-time. They still don’t have enough resources to provide themselves with stable housing. We also have a segment of kids who are in the high schools who are homeless. They couch surf and come to school. Are you finding you have those populations in Lynchburg? If there are a significant number of them, what are the steps you have taken at Miriam’s House to help them?
 Sarah: As a community, we have noticed a growing trend of youth homelessness. That is what you mentioned. That is the unaccompanied, 18-24, many of them have aged out of foster care or an institution setting, and don’t have that family support to make that next step into adulthood. Next month, we are going to be expanding one of our programs, Community First, which is a rapid re-housing program for families, and we are also going to be serving unaccompanied youth with that program. That is what happened. We noticed that trend. There is a growing population. There is not an organization in Lynchburg that targets homeless youth, and so we are going to become that, which I think is really exciting. It’s a vulnerable population with some different challenges than the homeless families we are serving, but certainly real needs. We are excited to be serving that population in a few days.
 Russell: That’s wonderful that you came up with the resources and vision to do that. We are experiencing a lot of trouble. Our real estate market in the Denver metro area and throughout Colorado have hopped rent prices very high. We just had our very last homeless shelter that was in Jefferson County close down two weeks ago. There are no homeless shelters in Jefferson County, which has about 655,000 people. The shelter model is what we leaned on before, but it doesn’t really lend itself to long-term solutions. It’s basic Maslow. When people are worried about how to keep dry and eat, they can’t be concerned with higher pursuits. What is your feeling about affordable housing in Lynchburg? How are you incorporating that into your approach? Do you think the shelter model is dead?
 Sarah: That is two different things. What you are mentioning is the housing-first model. It stemmed in the last 10 years from the recession and recognizing we don’t have enough shelters or facilities to address homelessness. Those facilities often had poor outcomes. There was a lot of revolving door and people not necessarily ending their homelessness through going to a shelter, but prolonging it. There is a place for a brief short-term shelter, a crisis-oriented shelter that is short-term, I’ve lost my house and I need to go somewhere for a couple days. What we do here in Lynchburg and what many communities around the country are doing is then quickly working with that household to find housing, whether that’s affordable housing in the community, subsidized housing, or assistance through rapid re-housing. There certainly is a place for shelter, but I don’t think that place is a 30/60/90-day stay without an intervention. What our community does is we have set benchmarks. After two days of staying in a homeless shelter, a case manager needs to be meeting with that household, working on a housing plan, figuring out if they are going to need additional resources or do they just need support to get back into housing?
 That goes into your next point about affordable housing. If we want to get people out of shelter quickly, the way to do that is by having an affordable housing stock. Many of these individuals are still going to be poor. They either are already working and working a low-wage job, or we are helping them get employment, but that employment is probably not going to be the median income for our community or for any community. Affordable housing continues to be a problem for our community and many others, not just the quantity of affordable housing, but the quality, too. One of the biggest issues for our community is the condensed areas of affordable housing. When you have that only located in low-income neighborhoods, it does not provide opportunities for households to get out of poverty and to better themselves. As a community, I am part of a housing collaborative working to increase affordable housing, not just the quantity, but also the location of that housing, recognizing that having affordable housing in mixed-income neighborhoods will provide much more opportunity for those formerly homeless households than if they were going right from a shelter back into a poor neighborhood.
 Russell: There are all sorts of auxiliary issues like access to transportation. Of course, our transit district is at best a light rail. I am a light rail rider, but it’s not for my livelihood. It’s for my convenience. The people in the poorer neighborhoods do not have good access to that light rail. When you talk about condensing people in an affordable project, there has been a number of them built in various areas of the city where people who came in. We had men and women from the Second Chance Center, who are people who experienced incarceration, trying to recreate their lives. They secured funds to build something. There is a big community meeting, not in my neighborhood.
 One of the things that Close to Home is doing is reaching out to people to talk about homelessness and what it looks like because there is the old guy with the bottle of wine and the paper bag type of image who is just a wino, man under the bridge. That is the image people have about homelessness. A lot of homeless people look like you and I. You would never know in a thousand years that they are homeless. Trying to talk with people about that. Talk about some of the ways you folks have tried to explain what homelessness is and educate the community in order to get more support for what you’re doing.
 Sarah: I think a lot of that is creating that empathy. It’s allowing individuals who don’t interact with people experiencing homelessness to understand some stories or some faces. We did a photograph exhibit several years ago, “Faces of Homelessness.” It was very simple. It was showing the faces of the men, women, and children in our community experiencing homelessness. They were not the faces that community members expected. You’re right. It’s not the grizzly old man who has been on the streets for 30 years. Certainly, there are a handful of individuals like that, but by and large, it’s the five-year-old kid whose mom was a victim of domestic violence, and they had to flee their home. Or it was the 50-year-old woman who has worked a low-wage job her entire life and was laid off because the company moved, so she became homeless. Creating that empathy through photos and stories is an important piece of what we do. We have a large community luncheon every year with almost 500 attendees, and having a client speaker at that is always the most popular part of the event, better than the raffles.
 Being able to see someone face-to-face who has experienced homelessness, to realize they are just like you or I, but they had a crisis occur, whether that crisis was a house fire or domestic violence or the loss of a job, that crisis hit, they did not have the resources to sustain that, and they became homeless. Recognizing that it’s not always as easy as saying it’s someone’s fault, that they drank too much, or they were too lazy to go to work, understanding that’s not what causes homelessness. Crises can occur to any household. If the household does not have the resources to weather that storm, they will become homeless. Having those different events and opportunities to share that story really creates that empathy.
 The incredible thing is that the Lynchburg community is so supportive of the work we do. Our expansion and being able to add new populations and being able to continue our work is because they have that empathy and they understand that this is their community. They do not want people sleeping outdoors or on park benches. That is inhumane.
 Hugh: I am going to weigh in because you mentioned the stereotypical old guy.
 Russell: Hmm, wonder where that comes from.
 Hugh: I don’t know where that comes from. Sarah, this is remarkable. I am just realizing I don’t see a whole lot of people on park benches walking the streets in Lynchburg. Some cities, it’s just very much in your face. You mentioned there were nine programs that did similar work. Talk about collaborations. How do you work in conjunction with any kind of disciplines, any agencies in working with this demographic?
 Sarah: We have a great community collaboration among homeless response providers, not only jus those direct service providers, our homeless prevention, our homeless diversion, shelters, DV shelters, organizations like us that do those next step services. We have those at the table. We also have our auxiliary services: our social services, our mental health providers, our recovery providers, probation and parole, police offers, our school systems. We recognize we need everyone at the table informing policy, informing decisions. The great thing is that having all those different voices allows us to make sure there are no gaps in services, that we are serving every population. We have providers that are working specifically with veterans experiencing homelessness. We target families. Now we are going to be the youth provider. We have other organizations who work with individuals who are chronically homeless.
 Recognizing that not one organization needs to do it all. Instead, we need to build upon which organization is really great at this work, and let’s support them in that instead of duplicating or trying to compete. That is what we do as a homeless response system. We recognize what the gaps are, what we are doing really well, and also what do we no longer need. Maybe we no longer need this many shelter beds because we are doing a really good job at diverting or preventing people from becoming homeless. Let’s instead dedicate more resources to that so that way we can do a better job of preventing homelessness rather than just treating it. Those conversations can really happen when you have everyone at the table, so that has been really neat.
 Hugh: Preventing. Go ahead, Russell.
 Russell: Prevention work more than a pound a cure. Next time you’re out, Hugh, we can do a tour. I can show you where a lot of homeless people are. They are starting to appear in the burbs, away from Denver. They’re everywhere. Those conversations or those collaborations are magic because everybody works in their wheelhouse. But there is always more. In looking at the measures that you’re thinking about as far as prevention, if there was one thing that as a group these agencies could do that would be the most important thing for them to do as far as prevention, what would that one action be that you would have them take?
 Sarah: Create more affordable housing. We talked about it earlier. That’s the piece. Not only in preventing homelessness at the front end, but also in ending homelessness when someone becomes homeless. By and large, no one wants to become homeless. People are becoming homeless because they don’t have affordable housing. If somebody is already paying more than 50% of their income toward rent and they lose that job, there is no way they have a savings account to pay that next month’s rent when they were already paying more than their means. Having more affordable housing really would be the key in preventing many incidences of homelessness.
 Russell: That sounds either like like-mindedness or group psychosis. That’s what a lot of people are thinking in these parts. We have a real challenge with affordable housing because there is development going on everywhere. There is people making tons of money. There are moves being made by various city governments to clear away some areas to do some rezoning to allow for mixed-use commercial and affordable housing with land prices and housing prices going up. It’s a real challenge for us here. I hope it’s not as big there. The bigger the challenge, the bigger the mission. Your people are willing to cooperate. I just found out about agencies I didn’t even know about. There is a spirit and collaboration a lot of people are looking at because this is huge. There are people from all sides of town that are starting to look at this and say, “Ooh, we are in over our heads.” There is a lot more willingness to collaborate. I guess that is what Henry Kissinger meant when he said “The absence of alternatives clears the mind marvelously.”
 Sarah: Yep, sure.
 Hugh: Sarah, going forward, I’m sure as a leader, you have a vision for what this organization should look like in five years. Have you developed that in conjunction or have a process to think about that with your board?
 Sarah: Yeah. We do some great strategic thinking every few years. Three years with our board, to lay that vision, to say where we have come, where are we going. That has happened. Our growth has not just happened by accident. It has been strategic. What do we do really well? First, that was family homelessness. We improved that program until now we can serve every family experiencing homelessness. Then it was recognizing what was next. There is this youth homeless population that is not being served, so now we are going to grow that program. I think that will really continue. It is recognizing the dynamic changes of homelessness and what it is we can do to make a difference. If in five years from now, all of a sudden we see a spike in a different population experiencing homelessness, then we will address that population. We are remaining true to our mission of ending homelessness, but recognizing that might look different as circumstances change, as our community shifts or changes, or different populations become homeless. Or there is new interventions. The biggest thing for me is to remain flexible. Recognizing that in all that we do, we need to be working to end homelessness. That will look different, and we will be serving different people five years form now than we are serving right now.
 Hugh: As a side note, SynerVision gives away ten visioning or board evaluation sessions a year for local nonprofits. We can extend that to Denver if you wanted to, Russ. We meet with boards. It’s helpful to have somebody who is not inside to help boards think about what possibilities there are. You come backwards and think about how to get there.
 If you have a vision for the future, what are the biggest challenges in going forward with all of the things going on in our world today? What is the biggest challenges that Miriam’s House faces to achieve those goals?
 Sarah: There is difficulty in predicting things like the availability of federal and state funding for homeless response is a concern. Of course, a portion of our funding is through federal homeless response grants and state homeless response grants. That is for many of our partners across the country. The instability of that funding is a concern. Continued funding for things like subsidized housing and affordable housing development. That will be huge in the next several years, seeing the direction of the Department of Housing and Urban Development in creating more affordable housing in communities. Those big policy decisions are difficult to predict. They shape how communities address homelessness.
 Hugh: In your seat of leader, how do you continue to work on yourself, your skills, your abilities to grow this organization?
 Sarah: I think taking advantage of others in similar roles across the state and the country in forming those connections and those collaborations. Even just having open conversations about challenges they are experiencing, things they had to overcome. I am certainly not one to recreate the wheel. When we have added a new program or serve a new population, I have reached out to others who are doing good work and have asked for help, input, and advice. That has served me well and allows me to not to have to recreate the wheel or learn from mistakes, but rather to really hone in on what has worked for others. I think that has been and will continue to be helpful tool.
 Hugh: We are coming to the last minutes of our conversation. We try not to go over an hour even though we get intrigued by the good work of the people we interview. I think many people are going to find this inspiring, hearing your story. Some people learn by tactical, how to do this, how to do that. Other people learn from stories. Some people learn from both. This has been a good sharing time to inspire people. I want to ask a question, and then I will do my sponsor promotion, and then come back to you for a final thought as we close out the interview about what would you share with other people that you think they ought to know about leadership and building an organization. What is a challenge, a tip, or a charge for people who are listening to this podcast?
 You talk about the groups that you get together with, like the veterans, the groups that have something in common. Do you also work with groups that aren’t doing the same thing? Do you work with Food for Families or some of those other charities that work with these people in different ways? If so, how do you build these collaborations?
 Sarah: Yeah. Miriam’s House is not only a direct service provider, but we are also the lead agency for homeless response in central Virginia. Part of that role is building those connections and building those collaborations and recognizing that we need everyone at the table, not just the homeless response providers, but those other organizations and entities. That is people like landlords who may have housing that we can advocate to become more affordable, or we can advocate for those landlords to offer housing to individuals with barriers, like eviction. That collaboration is one on one with meaningful individuals and entities and encouraging them to become a part of the solution to homelessness. It’s also a larger thing. When there is a recognition of good work being done, people want to join that. Over the last several years, the homeless response system, of which Miriam’s House is a part of, has received some great recognition that we are making some good progress, we have done some good work, and so people, organizations, businesses want to be a part of that.
 Hugh: It takes good leadership. Because of your demeanor and your willingness to talk and share, you attract similar people to you who would want to do that kind of work. You’re not in this protective secret operation. You’re doing something that is going to attract like-minded people. You can’t say that for every segment of charities in any community, not even Lynchburg. There are some segments that aren’t collaborating.
 We are headed toward opening a center at the University of Lynchburg. SynerVision is a partner in that project, along with Central Virginia something for Excellence and Nonprofit. We are going to build a center. It’s partly helping equip leaders with skills for board and funding, but also a place to come and broaden the scope of collaborations. I’m thinking you ought to be in that conversation to help us think about how that would work because there are a lot of charities that don’t have this level of synergy that we want to help bring together, and also have a listing for everybody of who does what. There is not a global listing resource that is up to date so any agency knows how to refer to people. Just a heads up, we’d love to have you in that conversation sometime soon.
 Sarah: Great. I would love to be part of that.
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 Hugh: You spoke about grants, Sarah, but I’m sure donors are a significant part of your funding as well and could be even more.
 Sarah: That’s true. I think that’s one thing that a lot of organizations have increased their efforts to because we don’t have a lot of control over state and federal grants, but we can certainly build relationships with our community donors.
 Hugh: This has been very helpful and informative. I appreciate your time today. As we leave this session, what thought or challenge would you like to share with other leaders out there who haven’t quite gotten to the place that you have? Or who have gotten to a good place and want to make sure they stay current with their skills.
 Sarah: Staying connected to the history of an organization and staying connected to the mission and the beauty that happened before, but also not being so tied to that history that there is an unwillingness to change and to grow. What has been great about my experience at Miriam’s House is that ability to honor the past while also really looking forward to the future and honoring that past by changing for the future.
 Hugh: Russell, do you want to give us a wrap as we are leaving here?
 Russell: Thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us here about an important matter. It’s really about partnerships. I think the private sector becomes a bigger part of that as we go along because when you talk about land and real estate, you’re talking about real money and profit. It’s important to get those people who resonate with your message on board to understand that this is impacting people they may know. Thank you for the brilliant work you’re doing. I’d love to talk to you again about a book I’m working on, profiling high-performance nonprofits because I think you’d fit there.
 I thank all of our friends everywhere for watching and listening. Sandy will want you to submit something to our magazine, and we’d love an article on this.  Not many people know much about homelessness, so it’s important they get a chance to learn more about that. Thank you to Sandy who always keeps us on track. We love it. Sandy is definitely looking forward to having an article. She will get that information to you on how to submit and what we look for. I look forward to seeing you soon.
 As always, you know Hugh and I have a lot of fun. This is the fun part of the job: meeting people like you and finding out what stuff you’re doing. It helps us recharge our batteries. We are in the transformation business. It’s about people. It’s about transforming lives. There is a bigger picture here. We need a lot of enlightened leaders like you to bring it to life for other people and to help us move on and create that legacy so no one is left behind.
 Hugh: Thank you, Russell.
 Russell: Not bad for a bald guy.
 Hugh: Not bad. Thank you, Russell. Thank you, Sarah.
 Sarah: Thank you.
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Sarah Quarantotto: The Story of Miriam's House - Ending the Cycle of Homelessness</strong></h1> <p><strong>Sarah Quarantotto </strong>joined Miriam’s House in 2010, after working for a number of years in the Lynchburg area with local social service and mental health agencies.  She has immensely appreciated the opportunity to lead an organization with such a rich history of empowering families and individuals made vulnerable by homelessness.  She has a Bachelor of Science in Psychology and a Master of Social Work from Virginia Commonwealth University.  When not working to end homelessness, Sarah is spending time with her husband, Jeremiah, and their two children exploring the outdoors and beauty of Central Virginia.</p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to today’s <em>Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Today we are going to tell a story of a very successful nonprofit, and it happens to be in the city where I live, Lynchburg, Virginia. Russell, how is it out in Denver today?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Nice and toasty. Beautiful blue skies. It’s been clouding over very quickly in the afternoons. We are approaching three figures out here. It’s been good because my tan will start to pop.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are in the mountains of western central Virginia, and it is a lovely day. Overcast and threatening to rain. We have the old mountains here, the ones that have been rained on and smoothed off. You have those young mountains. We have been on an adventure interviewing some really interesting people. I just met Sarah Quarantotto. Did I say that right?</p> <p><strong>Sarah Quarantotto:</strong> Yeah. Yep.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Just met Sarah last week at my rotary meeting, where she was presenting. I was really impressed with the story about this nonprofit she is the executive director for. I asked her to come on and tell the story from the leader standpoint. Where was the organization? Where is it now? Sarah, tell us a little bit about yourself and what your passion was for wanting to do this job.</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> My name is Sarah Quarantotto, and I am the executive director of Miriam’s House. I have been a social worker here in central Virginia for about 15 years. After finishing my Master’s in Social Work, I came to work at Miriam’s House as the Clinical Director. I really had the opportunity to be on the front lines working with homeless individuals. Two years after that, I was offered the Executive Director job, which I was really honored to accept.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tell us about why you accepted it.</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> When you are working in an organization with such an incredible impact, the leadership really matters. When there was a change in leadership and an opportunity to become that leader, I thought it was a really great opportunity to continue the good work of Miriam’s House, but also to grow and expand that work. I was really happy to be able to have that opportunity.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Our audience for this podcast and this video is typically people like you, people sitting in the chair of leading an organization. It might be a ministry. It might be a community-based charity, a membership-based charity, a cause-based charity. They are all kinds of different operations. The anchor to it is leaders make things happen.</p> <p>I am going to ask you a couple of questions. You have a background in social work and you are doing leadership. Those are different skillsets. Before you do the question, talk about the impact. You mentioned the impact on the homeless. Where was this organization when you started? Where is it now? You gave some statistics last week in your presentation that were really important.</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Miriam’s House, when I first came here, we operated a transitional housing program. For 20 years, we had a program on site that provided housing for 11 households at a time. The great thing about homeless response nationally is that the concept of programs responding to homelessness have expanded beyond facilities, beyond four walls of a facility, and really into the community. By looking at different models of intervention, we have been able to grow astronomically. Back in 2008, pre-recession, we served 33 individuals. This year, we are slated to serve over 300. That is a 900% increase. That meant we had to think outside the box and think about new ways and accept best practices that were happening in other communities, even though they had not occurred here in Lynchburg.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You spoke of different levels of service. What do those look like? What is the impact? You also spoke about how people don’t return to homelessness. Talk about the impact and the different levels, will you?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah. I think back in the ‘90s and early 2000s, the homeless response provided through Miriam’s House and many organizations was a one-size-fits-all approach. Every person or household that became homeless was given the same level of support and resources. What we have realized is that that is really unnecessary. Everyone’s story is different. Their circumstances are different. Instead of doing a one-size-fits-all approach, we triage our resources. We have intensive services that do occur on-site here to minimal or soft-touch resources, where someone just needs assistance with connecting with a landlord that has reasonable rents and being that liaison between that homeless household and that landlord to get them back into housing. It is the gamut of homeless response that we can do: everything from providing long-term housing with long-term case management to a short-term intervention.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The impact of the work. You said many of the statistics. 96% and 100%. I was really paying attention. Russell, I hope you are impressed. People that are placed and people that don’t return to homeless situations.</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah, that’s great. So last year, 96% of the households we served moved out of homelessness and into safe, affordable housing in the community. That’s great. That’s our ultimate measure of success. We want to end people’s homeless episode in a way that you do that is to get them back into housing. We are concerned about long-term success. We don’t want folks to return to homelessness a year or two years after housing. We also track that data. Last year, we had 100% success in no household recidivating over a span of two years’ prior. That was really exciting because it means what we are doing is successful in the short-term of ending someone’s homelessness and in the long-term in that they are not returning to homelessness. That is really exciting.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a process piece of finding a house and getting into it. There is an emotional piece that helps people have an attitude of self-sufficiency. How do you work with people in that realm, helping them learn what they need to learn to be able to stay where they are?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Our approach is really about empowerment. Rather than having punitive services where we are having our case managers tell people what it is they need to do, we really meet with them to identify what it is they want to accomplish or how perhaps their homeless episode was impacted by something previous that we can mitigate by an intervention. For example, if someone was homeless because they had untreated depression and were unable to go to work because of that depression, which then led to them losing their apartment and having to go to a homeless shelter, we can work with that individual to identify that, get them into treatment, see a therapist or get on medication so that homeless episode can be prevented in the future. Working with each household to identify what it is that you need to be stably housed and not return to homelessness.</p> <p>We have flexible resources. We have a once-a-month after-care support group that meets where households can come back and receive peer support about anything from tenant rights and responsibilities to a resource in the community, back-to-school supplies or something like that. That is a great resource to help people stay connected.</p> <p>We also offer ongoing case management. In their home at the beginning, as soon as they first move into housing, because that is a fragile time, so working with them in the home to make sure they have what they need, furniture and clothing, that they understand their new community, that they have the bus routes. Long-term, that might be a phone call here and there, touching base and seeing how they are doing. Tailoring that response to allow households to recognize they are not alone, there is a resource out there, we really want them to be successful in the long term. That success is outlined by them and their own goals. We are here to support them in that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> People can find you at MiriamsHouseProgram.org. Give us some of the statistics. Your cost per client served has gone down dramatically over the years. Your successful rate of people who have stayed in a home. Give us some of those numbers. Those are incredible. The impact you are having on people’s lives.</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Pre-recession, back in 2008, we were serving a homeless person at a cost of about $16,000 per person. Now, that is almost down to $2,000. That is really because we tailor the response appropriately. Certainly more expensive responses, longer-term supports are there for those who have had high barriers to housing, who have long episodes of homelessness. For those who really need a soft touch, that’s what we provide, which means we have more funds available to serve more households. Our growth, and the fact that we expanded so significantly, is not because our budget has increased tremendously; it’s because we are being a lot smarter with our resources that we have, recognizing that not every household needs an intensive resource.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. Russ is going to have some good questions. He is taking this in. I want to move us. We have established how successful Miriam’s House in the work that you are doing in the city in Virginia that has the highest poverty rate in the whole commonwealth. 24.5% in Lynchburg. The work you are doing is one of many charities that is reaching out to help people regain power in their lives and help them have a better future. I was so impressed with your report, how you gave it and the work you are doing. You just do it. You don’t toot your horn or something. You just do it. I was quite impressed. You have a degree in social work.</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> That’s right.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And you’re leading an organization. Those are two different skillsets. When you first came to work, you were the social worker, I’m guessing. Now, that is still a skillset you have; however, putting on the leader mantle is a different skillset. Talk about that journey. How did you equip yourself for this leadership position that you’re in?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> The great thing about social work as a discipline is that there is an understanding of a micro track, which is clinical in nature and talking more directly working with service individuals, but there is a macro track. Many individuals really think that social work is more about micro, one-on-one individual track. But actually there is this great macro track that talks about and educates on organizational change and system change and advocacy and capacity-building for different systems or models of care and community wealth-building or changing. The great thing about social work is that both of those aspects are part of the education. I had some great experience or some education in that macro piece, which is about making significant impacts. Even things such as data, which has become more important in the social work realm and social services organizations and human services organizations, to measure outcomes. Back in the day, it was sort of, I am going to do this intervention because it feels right to me. I like it. It seems like a good approach.</p> <p>And now, that’s flipped to what does the data show? Is this effective? Is this working? What are your actual outcomes? That has been appealing to me in that I was able to work individually with people and see an individual outcome. Someone who was no longer sleeping on the street, was able to have an apartment, was able to get a job. That’s really cool. In a leadership position, I am able to see how that translates into a big picture. I can see we have a 63% reduction in family homelessness in our community over the course of a year. That’s incredible. Even though that results in individual families who I may no longer know, I know that that makes a difference. Going from a direct service position to more of a leadership position, I am able to bring those personal experiences into leadership to know that the work we do to improve big-picture design and implementation means that more and more families and more homeless households are being impacted. I still have those images of those individuals and families in my head even though I am no longer working directly with them in their home or in a shelter.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s an effective model. You know how it works because you worked there. Supervising that and empowering that, you have first-hand knowledge of that space. That’s good. What were your challenges in coming up to speed and letting go of doing and empowering others to do? What were your challenges in that?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I think there is the piece of having to let go of some of that first-hand experience or interaction with clients. There is a part of having to trust the people who are now in those positions to continue that great work. That involves not only are we an organization dedicated to empowering our clients, but we also want to be dedicated to empowering our employees. A lot of that means I trust them to do the work they have set out to do. Supporting them, training them, but ultimately believing they are going to continue that mission of ending homelessness in the framework we have created at Miriam’s House, which is one of empowerment and support for our clients.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s awesome. I am going to shut up for a minute and let my co-host- He has been over here thinking of questions for you. He comes from a position of having been inside of a nonprofit doing funds development, and now he supports nonprofit leaders all over the place, like I do. Russell, do you have some questions for our guest today?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I’d like to welcome you and thank you for coming in and sharing your experience with us. It’s very critical to give people in a stable place because then you can start to solve the other problems they have. The formula that you’re working by is perfect for what needs to be done. Homelessness is a tough issue. I have found myself in a coalition. I am in several coalitions that focus on homelessness here. Our biggest challenge is affordable housing.</p> <p>To get back to the work you are doing, having been on the ground, effective leaders or transformational leaders, as Hugh defines them, are people who know all of their audiences, and that includes the people they serve. Transformational leaders build good leaders around them. When everybody understands how what they do fits into the big picture, and they see those results, they get a broader understanding of what they are doing, and it works better. Just looking at the work you do and how you approach serving people and the people that you partner with, the collaboration piece is something you didn’t address that I love about what you’re doing. It’s an all-hands-on-deck kind of thing when you are dealing with something like homelessness. It’s not the dirty old guy in a raincoat you’re talking about. We’re talking about families here. It’s very important to do that. I know that homelessness, as it is measured all over the place, greatly understates what is there.</p> <p>Another thing about what you’re doing is that you are doing it right. You’re probably not serving as many people. Nonprofit leaders by and large do not have enough money and do not serve enough people for where they want to see people go in the community, in the direction they wanted to go in. But it is the effectiveness and efficiency with which you serve the people that you have. There are real stories behind the numbers that jump out so that people see that impact. That is remarkable. I commend you for that. It’s great. Being able to make that shift form social worker to leader of the organization is difficult because a lot of people that are in that field have a lot of difficulty talking about the value they bring. It is about value. You’re working in partnerships to transition people from where they are.</p> <p>In thinking about this, when you were asked to be the leader of this organization, what are the things you were doing- I know you probably did this as they interviewed you. What were the things that you were doing that they thought made you right to take leadership of the organization?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Taking the mission of the organization, which is of course to end homelessness, and expanding it beyond what the organization had always done. Leading the programs and making recommendations for new ways to still fulfill that mission of ending homelessness, but not being so tied to a certain program type in order to do that, I think the board recognized that, especially after the recession, when nonprofits either had the same resources or fewer resources, they realized that was something they wanted to embrace, which was exciting to me. Nobody wants to be the leader of an organization that is stagnant and stays the same and is not interested in adapting or growing. That was mutually exciting for the board and myself to recognize that we wanted to take Miriam’s House in a different and better way, but still further that mission of ending homelessness and not leaving that behind.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s keeping your eye on the prize. That involves having what I call some tough conversations in the boardroom. Think of a time when you had a really tough conversation in the boardroom that really kicked you up to a new level. Are there some points where you had to have some tough conversations about a new approach or a specific program that was difficult, but once you had that conversation and navigated that, it took you to another level?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Back in the ‘90s, when Miriam’s House was formed, we served homeless families, but we defined those families as single moms with children. What we have done over the last several years is I have had to talk with the board about changing that family definition to include any household with children under the age of 18, whether that’s a grandma raising a grandchild, a single dad raising his two children, or two moms with their children. I think that was tough. A lot of individuals were really tied to the fact that Miriam’s House supported single moms that were homeless. Having to educate them that families sometimes look different. As an organization, we don’t want any child to be homeless, regardless of their family composition. Changing that definition of family to include any household with children was a big step for our board and for our organization because now, it allows us to serve every homeless family in our community as opposed to being narrow in our definition.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One thing I have discovered in joining these coalitions here in Colorado in the Denver metro area is there is a segment of the population that have been coined as “housing unstable.” These are people who are working full-time, not necessarily eligible for services. Some may be on the verge or a paycheck away from homelessness. Others are couch surfing. They are working full-time or a combination of jobs to constitute full-time. They still don’t have enough resources to provide themselves with stable housing. We also have a segment of kids who are in the high schools who are homeless. They couch surf and come to school. Are you finding you have those populations in Lynchburg? If there are a significant number of them, what are the steps you have taken at Miriam’s House to help them?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> As a community, we have noticed a growing trend of youth homelessness. That is what you mentioned. That is the unaccompanied, 18-24, many of them have aged out of foster care or an institution setting, and don’t have that family support to make that next step into adulthood. Next month, we are going to be expanding one of our programs, Community First, which is a rapid re-housing program for families, and we are also going to be serving unaccompanied youth with that program. That is what happened. We noticed that trend. There is a growing population. There is not an organization in Lynchburg that targets homeless youth, and so we are going to become that, which I think is really exciting. It’s a vulnerable population with some different challenges than the homeless families we are serving, but certainly real needs. We are excited to be serving that population in a few days.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s wonderful that you came up with the resources and vision to do that. We are experiencing a lot of trouble. Our real estate market in the Denver metro area and throughout Colorado have hopped rent prices very high. We just had our very last homeless shelter that was in Jefferson County close down two weeks ago. There are no homeless shelters in Jefferson County, which has about 655,000 people. The shelter model is what we leaned on before, but it doesn’t really lend itself to long-term solutions. It’s basic Maslow. When people are worried about how to keep dry and eat, they can’t be concerned with higher pursuits. What is your feeling about affordable housing in Lynchburg? How are you incorporating that into your approach? Do you think the shelter model is dead?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> That is two different things. What you are mentioning is the housing-first model. It stemmed in the last 10 years from the recession and recognizing we don’t have enough shelters or facilities to address homelessness. Those facilities often had poor outcomes. There was a lot of revolving door and people not necessarily ending their homelessness through going to a shelter, but prolonging it. There is a place for a brief short-term shelter, a crisis-oriented shelter that is short-term, I’ve lost my house and I need to go somewhere for a couple days. What we do here in Lynchburg and what many communities around the country are doing is then quickly working with that household to find housing, whether that’s affordable housing in the community, subsidized housing, or assistance through rapid re-housing. There certainly is a place for shelter, but I don’t think that place is a 30/60/90-day stay without an intervention. What our community does is we have set benchmarks. After two days of staying in a homeless shelter, a case manager needs to be meeting with that household, working on a housing plan, figuring out if they are going to need additional resources or do they just need support to get back into housing?</p> <p>That goes into your next point about affordable housing. If we want to get people out of shelter quickly, the way to do that is by having an affordable housing stock. Many of these individuals are still going to be poor. They either are already working and working a low-wage job, or we are helping them get employment, but that employment is probably not going to be the median income for our community or for any community. Affordable housing continues to be a problem for our community and many others, not just the quantity of affordable housing, but the quality, too. One of the biggest issues for our community is the condensed areas of affordable housing. When you have that only located in low-income neighborhoods, it does not provide opportunities for households to get out of poverty and to better themselves. As a community, I am part of a housing collaborative working to increase affordable housing, not just the quantity, but also the location of that housing, recognizing that having affordable housing in mixed-income neighborhoods will provide much more opportunity for those formerly homeless households than if they were going right from a shelter back into a poor neighborhood.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There are all sorts of auxiliary issues like access to transportation. Of course, our transit district is at best a light rail. I am a light rail rider, but it’s not for my livelihood. It’s for my convenience. The people in the poorer neighborhoods do not have good access to that light rail. When you talk about condensing people in an affordable project, there has been a number of them built in various areas of the city where people who came in. We had men and women from the Second Chance Center, who are people who experienced incarceration, trying to recreate their lives. They secured funds to build something. There is a big community meeting, not in my neighborhood.</p> <p>One of the things that Close to Home is doing is reaching out to people to talk about homelessness and what it looks like because there is the old guy with the bottle of wine and the paper bag type of image who is just a wino, man under the bridge. That is the image people have about homelessness. A lot of homeless people look like you and I. You would never know in a thousand years that they are homeless. Trying to talk with people about that. Talk about some of the ways you folks have tried to explain what homelessness is and educate the community in order to get more support for what you’re doing.</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I think a lot of that is creating that empathy. It’s allowing individuals who don’t interact with people experiencing homelessness to understand some stories or some faces. We did a photograph exhibit several years ago, “Faces of Homelessness.” It was very simple. It was showing the faces of the men, women, and children in our community experiencing homelessness. They were not the faces that community members expected. You’re right. It’s not the grizzly old man who has been on the streets for 30 years. Certainly, there are a handful of individuals like that, but by and large, it’s the five-year-old kid whose mom was a victim of domestic violence, and they had to flee their home. Or it was the 50-year-old woman who has worked a low-wage job her entire life and was laid off because the company moved, so she became homeless. Creating that empathy through photos and stories is an important piece of what we do. We have a large community luncheon every year with almost 500 attendees, and having a client speaker at that is always the most popular part of the event, better than the raffles.</p> <p>Being able to see someone face-to-face who has experienced homelessness, to realize they are just like you or I, but they had a crisis occur, whether that crisis was a house fire or domestic violence or the loss of a job, that crisis hit, they did not have the resources to sustain that, and they became homeless. Recognizing that it’s not always as easy as saying it’s someone’s fault, that they drank too much, or they were too lazy to go to work, understanding that’s not what causes homelessness. Crises can occur to any household. If the household does not have the resources to weather that storm, they will become homeless. Having those different events and opportunities to share that story really creates that empathy.</p> <p>The incredible thing is that the Lynchburg community is so supportive of the work we do. Our expansion and being able to add new populations and being able to continue our work is because they have that empathy and they understand that this is their community. They do not want people sleeping outdoors or on park benches. That is inhumane.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I am going to weigh in because you mentioned the stereotypical old guy.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Hmm, wonder where that comes from.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I don’t know where that comes from. Sarah, this is remarkable. I am just realizing I don’t see a whole lot of people on park benches walking the streets in Lynchburg. Some cities, it’s just very much in your face. You mentioned there were nine programs that did similar work. Talk about collaborations. How do you work in conjunction with any kind of disciplines, any agencies in working with this demographic?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> We have a great community collaboration among homeless response providers, not only jus those direct service providers, our homeless prevention, our homeless diversion, shelters, DV shelters, organizations like us that do those next step services. We have those at the table. We also have our auxiliary services: our social services, our mental health providers, our recovery providers, probation and parole, police offers, our school systems. We recognize we need everyone at the table informing policy, informing decisions. The great thing is that having all those different voices allows us to make sure there are no gaps in services, that we are serving every population. We have providers that are working specifically with veterans experiencing homelessness. We target families. Now we are going to be the youth provider. We have other organizations who work with individuals who are chronically homeless.</p> <p>Recognizing that not one organization needs to do it all. Instead, we need to build upon which organization is really great at this work, and let’s support them in that instead of duplicating or trying to compete. That is what we do as a homeless response system. We recognize what the gaps are, what we are doing really well, and also what do we no longer need. Maybe we no longer need this many shelter beds because we are doing a really good job at diverting or preventing people from becoming homeless. Let’s instead dedicate more resources to that so that way we can do a better job of preventing homelessness rather than just treating it. Those conversations can really happen when you have everyone at the table, so that has been really neat.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Preventing. Go ahead, Russell.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Prevention work more than a pound a cure. Next time you’re out, Hugh, we can do a tour. I can show you where a lot of homeless people are. They are starting to appear in the burbs, away from Denver. They’re everywhere. Those conversations or those collaborations are magic because everybody works in their wheelhouse. But there is always more. In looking at the measures that you’re thinking about as far as prevention, if there was one thing that as a group these agencies could do that would be the most important thing for them to do as far as prevention, what would that one action be that you would have them take?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Create more affordable housing. We talked about it earlier. That’s the piece. Not only in preventing homelessness at the front end, but also in ending homelessness when someone becomes homeless. By and large, no one wants to become homeless. People are becoming homeless because they don’t have affordable housing. If somebody is already paying more than 50% of their income toward rent and they lose that job, there is no way they have a savings account to pay that next month’s rent when they were already paying more than their means. Having more affordable housing really would be the key in preventing many incidences of homelessness.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That sounds either like like-mindedness or group psychosis. That’s what a lot of people are thinking in these parts. We have a real challenge with affordable housing because there is development going on everywhere. There is people making tons of money. There are moves being made by various city governments to clear away some areas to do some rezoning to allow for mixed-use commercial and affordable housing with land prices and housing prices going up. It’s a real challenge for us here. I hope it’s not as big there. The bigger the challenge, the bigger the mission. Your people are willing to cooperate. I just found out about agencies I didn’t even know about. There is a spirit and collaboration a lot of people are looking at because this is huge. There are people from all sides of town that are starting to look at this and say, “Ooh, we are in over our heads.” There is a lot more willingness to collaborate. I guess that is what Henry Kissinger meant when he said “The absence of alternatives clears the mind marvelously.”</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yep, sure.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Sarah, going forward, I’m sure as a leader, you have a vision for what this organization should look like in five years. Have you developed that in conjunction or have a process to think about that with your board?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah. We do some great strategic thinking every few years. Three years with our board, to lay that vision, to say where we have come, where are we going. That has happened. Our growth has not just happened by accident. It has been strategic. What do we do really well? First, that was family homelessness. We improved that program until now we can serve every family experiencing homelessness. Then it was recognizing what was next. There is this youth homeless population that is not being served, so now we are going to grow that program. I think that will really continue. It is recognizing the dynamic changes of homelessness and what it is we can do to make a difference. If in five years from now, all of a sudden we see a spike in a different population experiencing homelessness, then we will address that population. We are remaining true to our mission of ending homelessness, but recognizing that might look different as circumstances change, as our community shifts or changes, or different populations become homeless. Or there is new interventions. The biggest thing for me is to remain flexible. Recognizing that in all that we do, we need to be working to end homelessness. That will look different, and we will be serving different people five years form now than we are serving right now.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> As a side note, SynerVision gives away ten visioning or board evaluation sessions a year for local nonprofits. We can extend that to Denver if you wanted to, Russ. We meet with boards. It’s helpful to have somebody who is not inside to help boards think about what possibilities there are. You come backwards and think about how to get there.</p> <p>If you have a vision for the future, what are the biggest challenges in going forward with all of the things going on in our world today? What is the biggest challenges that Miriam’s House faces to achieve those goals?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> There is difficulty in predicting things like the availability of federal and state funding for homeless response is a concern. Of course, a portion of our funding is through federal homeless response grants and state homeless response grants. That is for many of our partners across the country. The instability of that funding is a concern. Continued funding for things like subsidized housing and affordable housing development. That will be huge in the next several years, seeing the direction of the Department of Housing and Urban Development in creating more affordable housing in communities. Those big policy decisions are difficult to predict. They shape how communities address homelessness.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> In your seat of leader, how do you continue to work on yourself, your skills, your abilities to grow this organization?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I think taking advantage of others in similar roles across the state and the country in forming those connections and those collaborations. Even just having open conversations about challenges they are experiencing, things they had to overcome. I am certainly not one to recreate the wheel. When we have added a new program or serve a new population, I have reached out to others who are doing good work and have asked for help, input, and advice. That has served me well and allows me to not to have to recreate the wheel or learn from mistakes, but rather to really hone in on what has worked for others. I think that has been and will continue to be helpful tool.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are coming to the last minutes of our conversation. We try not to go over an hour even though we get intrigued by the good work of the people we interview. I think many people are going to find this inspiring, hearing your story. Some people learn by tactical, how to do this, how to do that. Other people learn from stories. Some people learn from both. This has been a good sharing time to inspire people. I want to ask a question, and then I will do my sponsor promotion, and then come back to you for a final thought as we close out the interview about what would you share with other people that you think they ought to know about leadership and building an organization. What is a challenge, a tip, or a charge for people who are listening to this podcast?</p> <p>You talk about the groups that you get together with, like the veterans, the groups that have something in common. Do you also work with groups that aren’t doing the same thing? Do you work with Food for Families or some of those other charities that work with these people in different ways? If so, how do you build these collaborations?</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah. Miriam’s House is not only a direct service provider, but we are also the lead agency for homeless response in central Virginia. Part of that role is building those connections and building those collaborations and recognizing that we need everyone at the table, not just the homeless response providers, but those other organizations and entities. That is people like landlords who may have housing that we can advocate to become more affordable, or we can advocate for those landlords to offer housing to individuals with barriers, like eviction. That collaboration is one on one with meaningful individuals and entities and encouraging them to become a part of the solution to homelessness. It’s also a larger thing. When there is a recognition of good work being done, people want to join that. Over the last several years, the homeless response system, of which Miriam’s House is a part of, has received some great recognition that we are making some good progress, we have done some good work, and so people, organizations, businesses want to be a part of that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It takes good leadership. Because of your demeanor and your willingness to talk and share, you attract similar people to you who would want to do that kind of work. You’re not in this protective secret operation. You’re doing something that is going to attract like-minded people. You can’t say that for every segment of charities in any community, not even Lynchburg. There are some segments that aren’t collaborating.</p> <p>We are headed toward opening a center at the University of Lynchburg. SynerVision is a partner in that project, along with Central Virginia something for Excellence and Nonprofit. We are going to build a center. It’s partly helping equip leaders with skills for board and funding, but also a place to come and broaden the scope of collaborations. I’m thinking you ought to be in that conversation to help us think about how that would work because there are a lot of charities that don’t have this level of synergy that we want to help bring together, and also have a listing for everybody of who does what. There is not a global listing resource that is up to date so any agency knows how to refer to people. Just a heads up, we’d love to have you in that conversation sometime soon.</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Great. I would love to be part of that.</p> <p>*Sponsor message about Wordsprint*</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You spoke about grants, Sarah, but I’m sure donors are a significant part of your funding as well and could be even more.</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> That’s true. I think that’s one thing that a lot of organizations have increased their efforts to because we don’t have a lot of control over state and federal grants, but we can certainly build relationships with our community donors.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This has been very helpful and informative. I appreciate your time today. As we leave this session, what thought or challenge would you like to share with other leaders out there who haven’t quite gotten to the place that you have? Or who have gotten to a good place and want to make sure they stay current with their skills.</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Staying connected to the history of an organization and staying connected to the mission and the beauty that happened before, but also not being so tied to that history that there is an unwillingness to change and to grow. What has been great about my experience at Miriam’s House is that ability to honor the past while also really looking forward to the future and honoring that past by changing for the future.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, do you want to give us a wrap as we are leaving here?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us here about an important matter. It’s really about partnerships. I think the private sector becomes a bigger part of that as we go along because when you talk about land and real estate, you’re talking about real money and profit. It’s important to get those people who resonate with your message on board to understand that this is impacting people they may know. Thank you for the brilliant work you’re doing. I’d love to talk to you again about a book I’m working on, profiling high-performance nonprofits because I think you’d fit there.</p> <p>I thank all of our friends everywhere for watching and listening. Sandy will want you to submit something to our magazine, and we’d love an article on this.  Not many people know much about homelessness, so it’s important they get a chance to learn more about that. Thank you to Sandy who always keeps us on track. We love it. Sandy is definitely looking forward to having an article. She will get that information to you on how to submit and what we look for. I look forward to seeing you soon.</p> <p>As always, you know Hugh and I have a lot of fun. This is the fun part of the job: meeting people like you and finding out what stuff you’re doing. It helps us recharge our batteries. We are in the transformation business. It’s about people. It’s about transforming lives. There is a bigger picture here. We need a lot of enlightened leaders like you to bring it to life for other people and to help us move on and create that legacy so no one is left behind.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you, Russell.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Not bad for a bald guy.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Not bad. Thank you, Russell. Thank you, Sarah.</p> <p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Thank you.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Bill Bodine: Keys to Grant Application Success</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/bill-bodine-keys-to-grant-application-success</link>
      <description>Bill Bodine is a graduate of the soon to be University of Lynchburg with both undergraduate and graduate degrees there.  Much of his career was spent in healthcare, but he is now the President and CEO of the Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation, which was formed in 1972 and last year provided grants to local nonprofits and scholarships totaling just under $1.7 million.
  
 The Interview Transcript
  
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. This is Hugh Ballou. My guest today is a dear friend of mine who I have known for less than a year because I have been in Lynchburg, Virginia for less than a year. He was one of the first people I met at a rotary breakfast. Bill Bodine. He runs an organization that is now known as the Lynchburg Community Foundation. Bill Bodine, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Bill Bodine: Glad to be here. Appreciate it.
 Hugh:And there are people who are watching it on video and listening to the podcast. I like to start out these sessions by asking my guest to tell us about themselves, your journey. How did you end up doing this really important work that you do?
 Bill:Mostly luck, Hugh. I’m originally from New Jersey. I ended up in Lynchburg via Lynchburg College, which in two weeks will be the University of Lynchburg. I didn’t necessarily intend to stay, but I got a job working in health care right out of college. The longer I was here, the more I liked it. I have been a resident of Lynchburg now for about 40 years. I know I don’t look nearly that old.
 Hugh:You don’t.
 Bill:It’s true. It’s true. As far as getting into fundraising, I spent most of my career in health care. I was really looking for something that I could be more excited about and feel like I was making a real difference and helping the community. I have served on several boards. It was important to me to find something that was more service-oriented. I luckily saw that at the time, the Greater Lynchburg Community Trust was looking for a president and CEO because my predecessor was retiring. I went after the job and three years ago, they gave it to me. I have loved that. It’s been a little bit of a circuitous journey, but I finally figured out what I want to be when I grow up.
 Hugh:Oh, I don’t think men ever grow up.
 Bill:I don’t know if I ever will, but at least I figured out what I want to be. It’s been really enjoyable.
 Hugh:And you and I both drive convertibles.
 Bill:We do. We do. I have a little Miata that I try not to get in trouble with. Not driving it today because it’s too darn hot with the top down.
 Hugh:It’s 97 in Lynchburg.
 Bill:I know it’s crazy. Next time it cools down, I’ll be in it.
 Hugh:Probably had the remarks about, “Oh, it’s a mid-life crisis.”
 Bill:That would be true if I was in midlife.
 Hugh:It’s too late.
 Bill:A late-life crisis. More accurately. I have always enjoyed driving cars, and it’s a fun car to drive. I know your Mustang is a lot of fun.
 Hugh:It is fun. It’s fun to go slow.
 Bill:It’s fun. I’m not in a hurry. I just enjoy the journey.
 Hugh:It takes getting some age on. Also, the wisdom of leadership is impacted by our journey and our age. You came into this leadership position, I don’t think by dumb luck. I think people looked at you and said, “Oh, this guy can do it.” From what I’ve heard from people, you have stepped up to that plate.
 Bill:I feel like things are going well. I think the things that I bring to it are I really enjoy people. I enjoy talking with people. I have a passion for the mission of the organization. If you have that, you are more than halfway toward doing what you really need to do. I have a great story to tell, and I enjoy telling it. People are willing to listen. That’s been nice.
 Hugh:What does leadership mean? You lead an organization that leads and supports leaders of organizations. There is no real membership.
 Bill:There is no membership. My leadership stems from the fact that we touched 175 nonprofit organizations last year alone in terms of providing grant money. I get to interact with a lot of other leaders. I try to help them fine-tune their grant application process. I also try to pay attention to what the needs of the community are. How can we work together, and how can we best serve others? The leadership part of it comes from being in a chair that touches a lot of other leaders in terms of the grants and trying to make this a better community in any way we can. That’s just a byproduct of the job, but I enjoy that, too.
 Hugh:I picked up something. You just revealed our topic today: grants, and how to do a better job of applying for grants. You slipped in something there, and I’m going to pull it out. You work with people so they do a better job. People just don’t know how to apply for grants mostly.
 Bill:It’s all over the board, Hugh. Some people are really good at it and have a lot of experience doing it. Quite honestly, some of the smaller nonprofits that we work with, that’s not what people are trained to do or have done or have a lot of time to do. A lot of the smaller nonprofits are making things work with as few staff as they can and as little resources as they can. What I’ve found is that it’s helpful to work with people and speak with them about fine-tuning their grant. What I want to do is give them the best opportunity for success. Our foundation is not there to hold onto money. Our foundation is there to give that money away according to our donors’ wishes. The better job I can do helping people access those funds means I do a better job for our donors. That’s really what it’s about.
 Hugh:That’s amazing. I don’t think everybody understands that. This is a good point to make. I posted on the web page some of the questions we’re going to address that came from you because you know what you’re talking about.
 Bill:Maybe. Depends on who you ask.
 Hugh:Part of my career I served megachurches. I was in the interview process in the five biggest megachurches at the same time. Nobody knew what questions to ask. That was amazing. I pretty much had to provide my own questions.
 Bill:It helps things go smoother if we have an idea of what we’re going to talk about.
 Hugh:Or to get to the bottom line. What is it we need to know about this? Let’s start at the top. If I’m going to make a grant request- I run a 501(c)3. It’s a foundation. I give away services. I don’t give away money. I help people leverage what they have and attract money. Part of my work could conceivably be preparing people to do this process. What I tell my nonprofits is that funders are gonna look at the impact of your work, what results it will create. I want to check my accuracy. If we give you this money, what results will it produce? They will also look at your team. Can they really implement it? Are those the factors that are high?
 Bill: Those are the big deal. That is the real meat and potatoes of it. You could actually go back to a baseline. One of the first things I would tell people is if you are going to apply for a grant, make sure you review what exactly the grantor is looking for in terms of information. It surprises me occasionally how many applications we get that are incomplete because people have not thoroughly read what it is we are asking for. We get grant applications that come in without a list of the board of directors, which is one of the things we ask for. I would encourage people at the very baseline of it to read very carefully what the requirements are for the grant application, and make sure you include all that information. That seems basic and elementary, but it surprises me how many of them we get that are not fully completed. First and foremost, make sure you understand what that grantor is looking for and what their requirements are in applying for them. Make sure it’s complete because it’s a little bit like when you write your resume, make sure you spell things correctly. First impressions are important. That is maybe the first step.
 But you’re absolutely right. We like to know first of all what do you want the money for, and how is that going to help my community be a better place? How is that going to satisfy the wishes of the donors who have given us the money in the first place? First and foremost, I am bound by their wishes and their desires. My responsibility is to use the money that our donors have provided as wisely as possible and as closely to their various intents as possible.
 Hugh: I want to introduce you to somebody who got stuck on the viewer side of this, who is my co-host. He has been AWOL here. Russell David Dennis is joining us in this podcast from Denver, Colorado. I thought you were maybe having technical difficulty today. Russell showed up a year and a half ago and was very consistent with this. Russell is one of our WayFinders. It is our antidote to a consultant. It’s a WayFinder. We guide you; we don’t tell you what to do. We help you define what you’re going to do. Russell has been through the whole methodology of SynerVision, and he is now one of our bonafide WayFinders. I made him co-host. He outshines me many times. I like to say I pale in comparison. I’ve used that line. Russell, welcome. You’re muted.
 Russell Dennis: Greetings. I had to turn to my tablet. My computer has been loading updates all morning, and it doesn’t seem to want to finish.
 Hugh: Welcome to the party. I already warned him that my co-host has the zingers of the questions. He is braced for ya. I’m getting chats from across the screen. Russell, we’re talking about grants today and what makes a good grant request. So far, Bill has validated our premise that we need to have worthy goals in terms of what difference we are going to make, and people on board to do that. Bill, people maybe do read the requirements. You think they just forget? Or they weren’t careful? I guess you go back to people and resubmit.
 Bill: We do. We review all the applications. Before we put them in front of our distribution committee, we review them for completeness and accuracy. We try to track down questions we know they might ask. But yeah, it’s hard to know the reasons, Hugh, why people don’t always include everything. Sometimes they don’t have the information, and sometimes they forget, and sometimes they are just flustered by the process and don’t think it through well enough. Whatever the reasons, again, what we want to do is help people be as successful as possible. I just throw that out there as step one. Make sure you read the requirements and do your best to fulfill them. If you have a question or problem, call us, or call whomever you are applying to and ask for their help.
 Hugh: Are there community foundations in every area in the country?
 Bill: Just about. When the Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation was formed in 1972, there were probably about 30 community foundations nationally. We know from the Council of Foundations in Washington that in 1975, there were only 50. So we were formed in ‘72. There are now over 850. So they are all over the place now. A community foundation is a little different from family foundations or corporate foundations. Often family foundations and corporate foundations have more specific purposes. Ours is probably more general. We have more general purposes than a lot of other foundations. We cover the waterfront. As I mentioned before, we gave grants to 175 nonprofits in Lynchburg and the four surrounding counties last year alone. We will support basic human needs, the arts, historic preservation, the environment, all kinds of things. Most foundations you’ll find have a little bit narrower focus. That’s true for hospital foundations, the United Way for example. All of them do fantastic work. But our reach is a little broader. For some people, that fills in.
 Hugh: It fills in some gaps I would imagine.
 Bill: Yeah, it does. We have a flexibility that appeals to people. The other thing is community foundations are intended to be forever. We are perpetual. The appeal we have for people is that you can set up a fund, name it after your grandmother or whomever you want, and it will be here long after you’re gone and probably after your children are gone. It leaves a legacy. That is one of the appeals to community foundations.
 Hugh: I found more and more people who are interested in the legacy component. They are the instigator. They start this thing. But they are not going to be around forever. We want to have impact that goes on after our lifetime. There is a value. When they get money and enough money that they put it under management, you assist with that.
 Bill: Our purpose is to grow the fund and to distribute monies annually or more often than that sometimes from that fund, but continue to grow it so it continues to expand and lasts as long as the world lasts is the idea. People like that.
 Hugh: I’m hearing some fundamental principles. One, which we talked around, is pick up the phone and call. I don’t think people do that who are applying for grants. Maybe not all foundations are equally as successful as yours.
 Bill:Well, I don’t know about that. I haven’t worked at other foundations. I’ve talked to some colleagues. I think we are all generally here for the same purpose, which is to help people out and help the community be as seamless as possible. I really love it when someone calls me and says, “Hey, can I talk to you about this grant? I’ve been thinking about this proposal. Can you help me fine-tune it a little bit?” I do a lot of that.
 Hugh:Part of our due diligence, and Russell worked 11 years on an Indian reservation and he did grants, he comes up with another experience. Part of our job is to do our due diligence to learn about the grantor. What is the purpose of the grant? What requirements are there? Will what we want funded match up with what you want to fund? And spell the name right.
 Bill:Sure. We get applications that are for things we can’t do. If an organization is renting a building, and they come to us and ask for renovations to that building, that is something we really won’t do because we don’t pay for renovations to a building that is not owned by the organization. We only provide money to nonprofits, and we don’t want to improve a building for a landlord. We want to help that organization. I try to guide people not to do those kinds of things. We typically don’t like to pay operating costs such as salaries. We need to hire a new person and we need this for a salary. We’d rather not do that. We’d rather put our donors’ money toward programs, resources that go directly to help people, and that sort of thing. That is part of the guidance I try to provide. I don’t want people to waste their time or our time with an application that I know is just not going to perform.
 Hugh:One of the deficits we see often is that there is an organization trying to fly by tradition and history by the seat of their pants without a strategy.
 By the way, Russell, he is a fellow musician. He is an actor/musician. He has been a professional production for the past couple of weeks, so he far exceeds my capabilities.
 We need a map. What do you sing when? When do you go off stage? When do you go on stage? When do the trumpets play? The way we think is there is a core map for where we’re going and how we’re going to get there and what kind of impact we’re going to have. That gives us substance for our thinking.
 When people are looking at funding, if there is a deficit in leadership or lack of strategy, are those pieces what we might call capacity-building? Are there capacity-building grants for them to up their game so to speak?
 Bill:There are. There certainly are. For example, let’s say somebody needs new computer equipment. We have helped people with that before, but only if we understand what they are going to use that computer equipment for. If you apply for a grant saying, “I need new computers,” that’s great, and we can assume a certain number of things. What I’d really like to see is “We need these computers because we are putting them in front of school-age children to make them more familiar with technology. It will impact 80 kids.” That kind of detail is very helpful. If it’s capacity-building, that’s great, but what are you building that capacity for? What’s your plan? Anything like that is more helpful than not having that information.
 Hugh:Russell, you’re here and smiling. I’m sure you have some reflections or additional questions for Bill Bodine. You sat on the other side approaching grantors. This stuff, I’m sure, rings true for you, does it not?
 Russell:Yes, it does. One of the biggest mistakes people make is to contort what they’re doing into the requirements of a funding source they are not familiar with. To back up further than that, the number one reason grant proposals are turned down is because they don’t follow instructions. If you do that with a government grant, I have sat on grant panels for three years, if they don’t follow the instructions, we don’t even read it. It goes on the pile. I have seen some bad proposals. It may be a really good one, but because they didn’t follow the instructions… There is a strategy to this. The first piece of that is making sure you’re talking to the right source. You get these applications that don’t fit what you’re doing because people will sit and do a shotgun/M50 machine gun approach where they apply to 150 foundations and see what sticks.
 Bill:Like a one-size-fits-all kind of thing. That’s not good.
 Russell:And it doesn’t work. There is a strategy and a process. I have mind-mapped that a bit. I need to build a course on that. I have a couple of courses, but that’s one I need to build. I’m working on one for donors, too, at the moment. There is a strategy and there is a process. Everybody that sends you a grant proposal should be calling you on the phone and talking to you just to get clear because the guidelines are out there, the instructions are out there, the requirements are out there, but when you take a few minutes to call, ask about some things. Please do your homework, folks. You don’t want to ask people information that is already on the website. What you really want to do is get a feel of what is going on between the lines. Are there some things within this broad category that are really important to the foundation right now? What sort of things have they funded recently? Talk a little bit about your project. I’m thinking about does this fit in what is important to you? If not, what would be more of a fit? Would it be all right if I send you a proposal based on what you’re thinking?
 Hugh:Can I slate that data point for just a second? What he outlined was an exploratory conversation. What does that look like from what you sit? Sorry to interrupt you, Russell. I just wanted to capture that. To me, that was a notable sound bite.
 Bill:Russell and I are definitely on the same page here in terms of making sure you follow the instructions. But also what he said is really important about knowing what the grantor is and what resonates with them.
 The other piece is: What is a reasonable amount to ask for? All these foundations have different amounts they are comfortable providing. With our foundation, we gave away $1.7 million last year alone, but it went to 175 different nonprofits. That includes scholarship money for high school students going to college. The amount of money that we have is not as huge as many community foundations might be, and it gets spread out over a large number of agencies. If someone asks us for $100,000 today, that is not something we can really do without taking away from our other responsibilities. I like to sort of give people an idea of what is a reasonable amount to ask for and what we can do. That tends to be helpful, I think. That is another piece.
 Russell:That is knowing what your source is all about. Community foundations, which is a donor-advised fund because people have purposes, is it always is in the guidelines. You will see a range of funding that is awarded. That breaks things down into pieces, put them in sequence. What can you accomplish with that? It’s understanding how much you have and how much you need. Here is the thing that I want to stress to any nonprofits out there who are listening. It’s every bit as difficult, if not more, to get this money into the hands of people who will make good use of it than it is to apply for it and get it. Community foundations, a lot of family foundations are running lean. They don’t have all the people and tools that they have to try to give technical support to these nonprofits. What a community foundation does is work with smaller organizations. Finding good projects is really difficult. You have to put yourself in their shoes and understand that it’s not just difficult for you to get the money, it’s difficult for them to find projects to invest in and make sure that money is making the impact it’s intended.
 Bill:That’s right, Russell. The biggest sense of responsibility I have is to remember that it’s not my money. This was money provided to us by donors, individuals, corporations, and families who have a dream. They really have a desire to do something important with that money. I always have to remember that I need to find things that are worthy of those desires and that I am fulfilling that responsibility. If I don’t, I am not only letting those people down, but I am also possibly ruining potential contributions to the foundation to continue that purpose. That is a real responsibility that I feel strongly about.
 Hugh:While Russell is formulating his difficult question… As you’re looking at projects, is there any value for looking at collaboration coming to you, like two, three, or four different entities coming to you and saying they are going to do something together?
 Bill:Very highly. Again, getting back to that core value of trying to do the most good for the community we possibly can with our ultimately limited resources, any time we can encourage collaboration- One of the things we are in a good position to do in my spot is look for gaps in services and look for overlap. There is a lot of both quite frankly. So trying to get some of the smaller nonprofits to talk to each other, it might be the people providing food or shelter or furniture, or even arts organizations. How can we encourage collaboration with the ultimate purpose being how we can get our dollars to work as efficiently as possible and to do the most good they can do. Yeah, Hugh, that’s a vital point. You hit on something really important. We have to try to encourage collaboration. We just started to scratch that surface.
 Hugh:Maybe there is a place SynerVision could play in facilitating some conversation.
 Bill:I think so.
 Hugh:We have to get Russell over here from Denver.
 Bill:If I lived in Denver, I’m not sure I’d ever leave. Maybe we can get Russell to come because Lynchburg is great, too.
 Russell:I’m happy to come out there and see what’s happening now. I have some friends out in Virginia Beach. I have excuses to come over and poke around and have some fun.
 The challenge that you talked about of getting people to collaborate, this scarcity thinking that I’m not going to share my resources with anyone, is trying to get people to break out of that way of thinking. I think even something as simple as saying we encourage collaboration on projects that involve collaboration between a number of entities that are different from what is out there will be given extra special consideration so that maybe triggers something in people’s minds to say let’s talk to other people. There seems to be a lot of resistance to that. I don’t know why. More hands makes the work lighter.
 Bill:I think you’re right. I think we need to get at the sources of those feelings. Some people may have a control issue. I need to control this so I can make sure it goes in the direction I want it to go in. Or some of it is just not knowing who the other leaders out there are. If we can identify those reasons, then we can appeal to those people based on whatever their sensitivity is. Maybe we can provide assurances and say, “If we combine with this other group and they provide a service, you can still run that. You can still be in charge of that. Let’s say if we can’t strengthen your organization by getting some help from over here,” or whatever your trigger is. If we can identify those, then we may have a chance to approach it properly with a chance for success.
 Hugh:You could apply for one of the grants at SynerVision. You could say, “Hey, we want to fund this project. We are going to ask for SynerVision to group you together and come up with a plan to present this to us.” It would be the work that we do, facilitating people collaborating. 
 Bill:And the carat for them is these funds are available in terms of the grant. You have to figure out- Just like with donors. What is their hot button? What appeals to them? When you hit resistance from people who maybe are not willing to collaborate, maybe they are in that overused term of being in their own silos—that is the buzz phrase for the year—but whatever it is, and we can figure out what that is and address that, then we maybe have a chance to hook up some of these collaborations.
 Hugh:It’s an exploratory conversation first. Get some knowledge. Part of what I see, and I think you have, too, is people don’t understand how to collaborate or how to get it started. We think consensus and collaboration are the same as- What’s the other side? Compromise. A lose-lose. A consensus is a win-win. A collaboration is how we do consensus. We come together with a common purpose and a common mind. Actually, we can make the dollars go further because we are making lighter work for everybody.
 Bill:Sometimes it’s just that people are paddling as hard as they can and they don’t feel they have time. Who wants to go to another meeting unless you’re sure it will be extremely beneficial? Some of it is just battling that. Whatever it is, we ought to be able to figure it out and address it.
 Hugh:I think it’s a new way of effectiveness here. Our initials, people in business invest money for ROI. In nonprofits, people invest money for ROL, return on life. How we get there is ROR, return on relationship. What you’re talking about is let’s develop a relationship with the funder to know that we’re in sync. We were both smiling when you were talking about the intent of the donor. We ask people why they want to serve on the board and what they want done with their money. We don’t really go there because we don’t think about it. So really, how do we understand the intent of the donor?
 Russell, you had some time. Come back to Bill here with a goodly framed question. Couldn’t get that out.
 Russell:That is why I left the IRS. People started thinking I was this horrible, scary guy, and that’s just not true. Hugh is trying to turn me into this evil quizmaster that will send the guest running for the exit. That’s not the truth.
 You talked about getting the money into programs. I think that a lot of this scarcity thinking is really centered around the fact that for some nonprofits, because they don’t have diverse funding, they’re worried about how to keep the lights on and pay the bills that eats up a lot of our resources. How much of that do you think is a factor in people not collaborating?
 Bill:It’s hard to quantify it. That’s a good question. It is a factor. I think we can safely say it’s a big factor. What percentage? I would have a hard time putting my fingers on that. That’s part of the job is trying to make sure you’re helping people take care of those basic needs so that they feel more available or open to diving deeper into this stuff. I don’t really know if that answers your question, but I think you have identified a big factor. How to quantify that, I’m not sure. In different organizations, it varies widely, I would guess.
 Russell:That falls in line with the airline safety theory of putting your own mask on first. People really feel they would actually be taking something away from themselves to collaborate when in fact they might find some extra resources for their programs. This is the motivation for trying to find other ways. We live and die by the grant. We did have some private donors and other sources. When I was working for the tribe, we spent a whole lot of time focusing on grants as opposed to any other sources of revenue. We did try to start some businesses. There is a lot of snake oil out there. You have to keep your eyes open. That diversity of funding is important, and building relationships with donors is critical. That funding usually has more flexibility on the bottom end. When we start getting into the top end of the donors, they are usually a little bit more focused with what they want to see happen with that money. It’s trying to get other sources of revenue in the door. Grants are not intended to keep you operating. They are for special purposes: to build them, test them until you can make them sustainable. That’s another mistake folks make with grants.
 Bill:The other comment I would make on that is you are exactly right. The other thing is grants, we tell people that you can’t put us in your budget for next year and assume you will get a grant every year. We have two grant cycles a year. We evaluate those separately every cycle. You can’t count on that grant income. If you’re good at it, you may have a good track record. You really have to develop other resources for funds that are steadier than that. I guess you found that with your Native American work.
 Hugh:When you review people, they have to submit financials or something. Do you look for alternate sources of funding?
 Bill:Yes, we do. It’s one way you judge the strength of the organization. Do they have other sources of funds? I don’t really want people who depend solely on us for their annual budget. There are some smaller agencies that probably truth be known they are very dependent on us. It’s a stronger application if they can show us other sources of funds or have programs that generate funds. That helps the application.
 Hugh:There is a lot of data here that I think is helpful to any grant application. Understand what the grantor wants to achieve. Know about them. Follow the directions. Be very clear on the impact of what the money is going to provide.
 Here is another topic. We don’t think about the administrative. I imagine a $5,000 grant would have fewer administrative requirements than a $500,000 grant or a $5 million grant. So there is some reporting back of how the money was utilized. How important is that?
 Bill:It’s really important. Quite honestly, there is not really much difference for us because our grants generally run from a couple thousand to $25,000. We don’t do half-a-million dollar grants. The administrative requirements are essentially the same for all the grants we provide. We feel it’s our responsibility to our donors that first of all, the money was used for the purpose that was stated, and also that the impact that was expected was achieved or nearly achieved as well as could be done. We require written documentation of all that within a year from receiving the grant so that we can have a record of that and show the money was used for what our donors and we intended it to be used for and what the agency said it was going to be used for. That’s a big deal to us. I know there are foundations that struggle with that sort of validation. They will go back later and find out there have been some discrepancies, or that the money wasn’t used for what it said it was going to be used for. Whether you get $1,000 from us or $25,000 from us, you have to jump through the same hoops.
 Russell:If you are going to have a high-performance organization, you should track everything you do. This is strategy as we lay it out. You’re tracking everything you’re doing. This should not really be a stretch to reach out to your funding sources and say this is what you did. You built the framework, you built the strategy, you’re tracking what you’re doing, and you’re getting it out there. Sometimes, things don’t go well. People don’t want to be transparent. I went to my mastermind network that I have out here. I put some stuff on the table. I got a lot of suggestions that were helpful. Some of the stuff was very basic, but it’s the transparency. Now these folks can help me more than they were ever able to if I hadn’t done this. The transparency supported me. Sometimes things don’t go as well as they’re planned, but we need to be in constant contact and transparent so that we can right the ship and get it back on track. A lot of foundations don’t have the resources to track because you guys have to review everything you get back to make sure that project is on track. If you’re effective, you’re doing that. In structuring these programs, getting back the strategy piece and building things out, you will want to create systems that capture all the information you need, but they’re easy to understand, access, and use by the people who are running the programs. If the evaluation tools are too hard, people will not use anything that is hard to implement. It has to be simple. It has to flow in line with their work. As these programs run, they are easy to track. It doesn’t become a stretch at the end of the quarter, at the end of year to scramble and finish these reports. Been there, done that. That’s how I know. If you got these things as part of your process, you can just roll this stuff out because you are tracking it all the time.
 Hugh:Part of what he referred to is we teach people when you have a strategy, you have milestones. This is your success. You’ve reached this. Then a milestone, you have a budget over here. When you pay a dollar, you achieve a milestone, so there is a redundancy in the budget. We find a lot of organizations don’t really have any way to track things because they don’t have a system in place. It’s the Covey principle, as you were talking, Russell, of begin with the end in mind. You’re going to have to do a report, so let’s think backwards. What do we need to create now so it’s not a big deal? The question to you is: Do you have pamphlets or educational materials or trainings for people to master these skills they may not have?
 Bill:The answer to that is no, we really don’t. That is not something we have seen in our role up to now. What we have tried to do is as Russell was saying make it as easy for people as possible. Three years ago, we required paper copies of all applications, ten copies, so you’d get a stack of paper a foot tall from this little agency. Not only that, but all the trees we were killing. We have brought the process online on our website. While you’re there, you can look at all the grants we made last year, who we granted to, how much, and for what purpose. We tried to make that as simple as possible and with as few clicks as possible.
 To your point, Hugh, I think maybe that’s one of the next steps. I really see organizations like yours being at the forefront of helping people gain the tools they need to be successful. I don’t know that with the staff I have, which is me, another full-time person, and a two-day-a-week accountant, that we could provide a lot of these resources. But there are good people out here like yourself who can do that. We’d certainly be interested in helping out.
 Hugh:Sure. We might have something we could provide for you. Russell, that was a good point you opened up there. What else are you stirring up in that no-hair head of yours?
 Bill:It’s a good one. I’m not going to make any comments about hair. I’m right behind ya.
 Hugh:Oh, he has hair!
 Russell:I’m going to have to take a razor to it because when it comes in, it’s pretty gray. I promised myself after I recovered from chemotherapy six years ago, no formula. I’m going to remind myself that I’m on blessed time, I got a few extra days, and I’m going to wear it proudly.
 That is part of the piece. A lot of nonprofits don’t have the budget and development. That’s something community foundations- Denver Foundation will provide technical support to grantees who they have granted funds to before. You spread too thin in terms of resources to do that. Partnerships between entities like SynerVision and my company and community foundations makes sense to go in and talk to people and help them get the training they need. Doing that for a community foundation, you touch a lot of entities because I don’t know how many organizations you have, but the Denver Foundation probably has somewhere between 200-300 organizations who are grantees and members. That is a common size. To be able to talk to people about these things and to help them and to provide that sort of technical assistance that you haven’t been able to provide is still good stewardship. It’s about good stewardship and protecting those investments. That is something that benefits grantees and the foundation. It’s really about going out and making that impact and supporting one another. Maybe something like a mastermind group from time to time. Some of our community foundations have put on a training event. But a mastermind, I just left a mastermind for my business. Is that something you have thought about with some of the folks you work with? Creating a mastermind group.
 Bill:That’s something that Hugh and I have had conversations about. That’s not something I have really envisioned our foundation doing. But I think in collaboration with people like you guys and maybe others, that’s something we could work toward. I think it’s a great idea.
 Hugh:Having a conversation with people about the gaps – they will discover something. We will discover what they think they need versus what they really need. The problem with blind spots is you can’t see them. It’s like your hair, Russell. I am glad it’s coming in gray because you have earned every one of them. Are there any pitfalls that we have not identified in this conversation for people who are applying?
 Bill:I think we have touched on the ones that I can really think of. Make sure you ask for the right kind of things. Make sure you ask for the right amount of money based on what you have been able to find out about the foundation or whomever you are applying to. Make sure your application is complete and according to the requirements specified by the grantor. We have touched on all those things. Those are the key things, Hugh.
 The other thing I would mention is follow-up. The grant process doesn’t end when you get that phone call or that letter that says, “Congratulations, you have been granted such-and-such money,” or the phone call that you might get- It’s a good idea to make sure that you thank the organization, that you show a level of gratitude. We all like to feel like it’s appreciated. That can only help. Particularly, in a community like ours, where most of these organizations will apply regularly, what you want is to be looked upon favorably as someone who has been A) a good steward of that money and B) appreciated getting it in the first place, and that we develop a relationship where we know who you are, what you’re doing, and why you’re a good outfit and good people doing good work.
 Hugh:That’s a fundamental principle. I’m so surprised people don’t honor it.
 Bill:Some people are really good at it, but not everybody. The ones who are good at it might be in the minority. But that’s an important piece. We all like to be thanked and to have it known that what was done is appreciated and that you take it seriously. I would just encourage the grantees to make sure they do that.
 Hugh:Attitude or gratitude. I’m thinking back over the in-kind grants I’ve done. In my symposium, you had a board meeting…
 Bill:I know. How lame can you get?
 Hugh:People applied for a grant for that even though it was $40, and they got it. They were very grateful. But there were some small community leaders who didn’t have any money who I granted. And only one of them said thank you. One. One.
 Bill:It is a bit of a lost art.
 Hugh:It is. Like conversation. We are going to give you the last word here. We try to keep it under an hour. This has been very helpful information. 
 Bill, this is great. He came over to my house so we could hang out and do this. One day, he’ll have a camera on his computer.
 Bill:I just wanted to come over and check out your house.
 Hugh:Do you like it so far?
 Bill:It’s great.
 Hugh:So Bill, what do you want to leave people with? What’s a challenge or a tip or a thought you want to leave people with as we are ending this really good interview?
 Bill:Always remember the work you’re doing is critically important. On the days when it feels like things are piling up and you feel varied, you are making a difference. I get to jump out of bed every morning and think, Wow, what can happen that will help the community be a better place to live? That’s incredibly motivating. Don’t lose sight of it. That’s what we’re here for. Yeah, it’s about fundraising, it’s about giving grants, but it’s really not. What we’re here for is to improve our communities and give people a sense that their money is going to help their fellow man and help their community. The vast majority don’t give money to foundations for tax purposes and things like that. It’s about philanthropy. We’re helping people feel good, and we should feel good about that.
 Hugh:Most people don’t give money because of donations. It’s because they want to make a difference.
 Bill:It’s not for taxes. It’s because it makes them feel good. They do it with their heart.
 Hugh:I see you smiling, Russell. Thank you again for being here, my friend.
 Russell:Always a pleasure. If you don’t tell people what difference their dollars are making, they will put them somewhere else. You stay in touch no matter what the results is. Bill, thanks a million. Hugh, thanks for making it through a broadcast without the magic phrase.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7d5d644c-b329-11eb-9f0f-bf90141e7540/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Learning the Process to Apply for and Receive Grants</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Bill Bodine is a graduate of the soon to be University of Lynchburg with both undergraduate and graduate degrees there.  Much of his career was spent in healthcare, but he is now the President and CEO of the Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation, which was formed in 1972 and last year provided grants to local nonprofits and scholarships totaling just under $1.7 million.
  
 The Interview Transcript
  
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. This is Hugh Ballou. My guest today is a dear friend of mine who I have known for less than a year because I have been in Lynchburg, Virginia for less than a year. He was one of the first people I met at a rotary breakfast. Bill Bodine. He runs an organization that is now known as the Lynchburg Community Foundation. Bill Bodine, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Bill Bodine: Glad to be here. Appreciate it.
 Hugh:And there are people who are watching it on video and listening to the podcast. I like to start out these sessions by asking my guest to tell us about themselves, your journey. How did you end up doing this really important work that you do?
 Bill:Mostly luck, Hugh. I’m originally from New Jersey. I ended up in Lynchburg via Lynchburg College, which in two weeks will be the University of Lynchburg. I didn’t necessarily intend to stay, but I got a job working in health care right out of college. The longer I was here, the more I liked it. I have been a resident of Lynchburg now for about 40 years. I know I don’t look nearly that old.
 Hugh:You don’t.
 Bill:It’s true. It’s true. As far as getting into fundraising, I spent most of my career in health care. I was really looking for something that I could be more excited about and feel like I was making a real difference and helping the community. I have served on several boards. It was important to me to find something that was more service-oriented. I luckily saw that at the time, the Greater Lynchburg Community Trust was looking for a president and CEO because my predecessor was retiring. I went after the job and three years ago, they gave it to me. I have loved that. It’s been a little bit of a circuitous journey, but I finally figured out what I want to be when I grow up.
 Hugh:Oh, I don’t think men ever grow up.
 Bill:I don’t know if I ever will, but at least I figured out what I want to be. It’s been really enjoyable.
 Hugh:And you and I both drive convertibles.
 Bill:We do. We do. I have a little Miata that I try not to get in trouble with. Not driving it today because it’s too darn hot with the top down.
 Hugh:It’s 97 in Lynchburg.
 Bill:I know it’s crazy. Next time it cools down, I’ll be in it.
 Hugh:Probably had the remarks about, “Oh, it’s a mid-life crisis.”
 Bill:That would be true if I was in midlife.
 Hugh:It’s too late.
 Bill:A late-life crisis. More accurately. I have always enjoyed driving cars, and it’s a fun car to drive. I know your Mustang is a lot of fun.
 Hugh:It is fun. It’s fun to go slow.
 Bill:It’s fun. I’m not in a hurry. I just enjoy the journey.
 Hugh:It takes getting some age on. Also, the wisdom of leadership is impacted by our journey and our age. You came into this leadership position, I don’t think by dumb luck. I think people looked at you and said, “Oh, this guy can do it.” From what I’ve heard from people, you have stepped up to that plate.
 Bill:I feel like things are going well. I think the things that I bring to it are I really enjoy people. I enjoy talking with people. I have a passion for the mission of the organization. If you have that, you are more than halfway toward doing what you really need to do. I have a great story to tell, and I enjoy telling it. People are willing to listen. That’s been nice.
 Hugh:What does leadership mean? You lead an organization that leads and supports leaders of organizations. There is no real membership.
 Bill:There is no membership. My leadership stems from the fact that we touched 175 nonprofit organizations last year alone in terms of providing grant money. I get to interact with a lot of other leaders. I try to help them fine-tune their grant application process. I also try to pay attention to what the needs of the community are. How can we work together, and how can we best serve others? The leadership part of it comes from being in a chair that touches a lot of other leaders in terms of the grants and trying to make this a better community in any way we can. That’s just a byproduct of the job, but I enjoy that, too.
 Hugh:I picked up something. You just revealed our topic today: grants, and how to do a better job of applying for grants. You slipped in something there, and I’m going to pull it out. You work with people so they do a better job. People just don’t know how to apply for grants mostly.
 Bill:It’s all over the board, Hugh. Some people are really good at it and have a lot of experience doing it. Quite honestly, some of the smaller nonprofits that we work with, that’s not what people are trained to do or have done or have a lot of time to do. A lot of the smaller nonprofits are making things work with as few staff as they can and as little resources as they can. What I’ve found is that it’s helpful to work with people and speak with them about fine-tuning their grant. What I want to do is give them the best opportunity for success. Our foundation is not there to hold onto money. Our foundation is there to give that money away according to our donors’ wishes. The better job I can do helping people access those funds means I do a better job for our donors. That’s really what it’s about.
 Hugh:That’s amazing. I don’t think everybody understands that. This is a good point to make. I posted on the web page some of the questions we’re going to address that came from you because you know what you’re talking about.
 Bill:Maybe. Depends on who you ask.
 Hugh:Part of my career I served megachurches. I was in the interview process in the five biggest megachurches at the same time. Nobody knew what questions to ask. That was amazing. I pretty much had to provide my own questions.
 Bill:It helps things go smoother if we have an idea of what we’re going to talk about.
 Hugh:Or to get to the bottom line. What is it we need to know about this? Let’s start at the top. If I’m going to make a grant request- I run a 501(c)3. It’s a foundation. I give away services. I don’t give away money. I help people leverage what they have and attract money. Part of my work could conceivably be preparing people to do this process. What I tell my nonprofits is that funders are gonna look at the impact of your work, what results it will create. I want to check my accuracy. If we give you this money, what results will it produce? They will also look at your team. Can they really implement it? Are those the factors that are high?
 Bill: Those are the big deal. That is the real meat and potatoes of it. You could actually go back to a baseline. One of the first things I would tell people is if you are going to apply for a grant, make sure you review what exactly the grantor is looking for in terms of information. It surprises me occasionally how many applications we get that are incomplete because people have not thoroughly read what it is we are asking for. We get grant applications that come in without a list of the board of directors, which is one of the things we ask for. I would encourage people at the very baseline of it to read very carefully what the requirements are for the grant application, and make sure you include all that information. That seems basic and elementary, but it surprises me how many of them we get that are not fully completed. First and foremost, make sure you understand what that grantor is looking for and what their requirements are in applying for them. Make sure it’s complete because it’s a little bit like when you write your resume, make sure you spell things correctly. First impressions are important. That is maybe the first step.
 But you’re absolutely right. We like to know first of all what do you want the money for, and how is that going to help my community be a better place? How is that going to satisfy the wishes of the donors who have given us the money in the first place? First and foremost, I am bound by their wishes and their desires. My responsibility is to use the money that our donors have provided as wisely as possible and as closely to their various intents as possible.
 Hugh: I want to introduce you to somebody who got stuck on the viewer side of this, who is my co-host. He has been AWOL here. Russell David Dennis is joining us in this podcast from Denver, Colorado. I thought you were maybe having technical difficulty today. Russell showed up a year and a half ago and was very consistent with this. Russell is one of our WayFinders. It is our antidote to a consultant. It’s a WayFinder. We guide you; we don’t tell you what to do. We help you define what you’re going to do. Russell has been through the whole methodology of SynerVision, and he is now one of our bonafide WayFinders. I made him co-host. He outshines me many times. I like to say I pale in comparison. I’ve used that line. Russell, welcome. You’re muted.
 Russell Dennis: Greetings. I had to turn to my tablet. My computer has been loading updates all morning, and it doesn’t seem to want to finish.
 Hugh: Welcome to the party. I already warned him that my co-host has the zingers of the questions. He is braced for ya. I’m getting chats from across the screen. Russell, we’re talking about grants today and what makes a good grant request. So far, Bill has validated our premise that we need to have worthy goals in terms of what difference we are going to make, and people on board to do that. Bill, people maybe do read the requirements. You think they just forget? Or they weren’t careful? I guess you go back to people and resubmit.
 Bill: We do. We review all the applications. Before we put them in front of our distribution committee, we review them for completeness and accuracy. We try to track down questions we know they might ask. But yeah, it’s hard to know the reasons, Hugh, why people don’t always include everything. Sometimes they don’t have the information, and sometimes they forget, and sometimes they are just flustered by the process and don’t think it through well enough. Whatever the reasons, again, what we want to do is help people be as successful as possible. I just throw that out there as step one. Make sure you read the requirements and do your best to fulfill them. If you have a question or problem, call us, or call whomever you are applying to and ask for their help.
 Hugh: Are there community foundations in every area in the country?
 Bill: Just about. When the Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation was formed in 1972, there were probably about 30 community foundations nationally. We know from the Council of Foundations in Washington that in 1975, there were only 50. So we were formed in ‘72. There are now over 850. So they are all over the place now. A community foundation is a little different from family foundations or corporate foundations. Often family foundations and corporate foundations have more specific purposes. Ours is probably more general. We have more general purposes than a lot of other foundations. We cover the waterfront. As I mentioned before, we gave grants to 175 nonprofits in Lynchburg and the four surrounding counties last year alone. We will support basic human needs, the arts, historic preservation, the environment, all kinds of things. Most foundations you’ll find have a little bit narrower focus. That’s true for hospital foundations, the United Way for example. All of them do fantastic work. But our reach is a little broader. For some people, that fills in.
 Hugh: It fills in some gaps I would imagine.
 Bill: Yeah, it does. We have a flexibility that appeals to people. The other thing is community foundations are intended to be forever. We are perpetual. The appeal we have for people is that you can set up a fund, name it after your grandmother or whomever you want, and it will be here long after you’re gone and probably after your children are gone. It leaves a legacy. That is one of the appeals to community foundations.
 Hugh: I found more and more people who are interested in the legacy component. They are the instigator. They start this thing. But they are not going to be around forever. We want to have impact that goes on after our lifetime. There is a value. When they get money and enough money that they put it under management, you assist with that.
 Bill: Our purpose is to grow the fund and to distribute monies annually or more often than that sometimes from that fund, but continue to grow it so it continues to expand and lasts as long as the world lasts is the idea. People like that.
 Hugh: I’m hearing some fundamental principles. One, which we talked around, is pick up the phone and call. I don’t think people do that who are applying for grants. Maybe not all foundations are equally as successful as yours.
 Bill:Well, I don’t know about that. I haven’t worked at other foundations. I’ve talked to some colleagues. I think we are all generally here for the same purpose, which is to help people out and help the community be as seamless as possible. I really love it when someone calls me and says, “Hey, can I talk to you about this grant? I’ve been thinking about this proposal. Can you help me fine-tune it a little bit?” I do a lot of that.
 Hugh:Part of our due diligence, and Russell worked 11 years on an Indian reservation and he did grants, he comes up with another experience. Part of our job is to do our due diligence to learn about the grantor. What is the purpose of the grant? What requirements are there? Will what we want funded match up with what you want to fund? And spell the name right.
 Bill:Sure. We get applications that are for things we can’t do. If an organization is renting a building, and they come to us and ask for renovations to that building, that is something we really won’t do because we don’t pay for renovations to a building that is not owned by the organization. We only provide money to nonprofits, and we don’t want to improve a building for a landlord. We want to help that organization. I try to guide people not to do those kinds of things. We typically don’t like to pay operating costs such as salaries. We need to hire a new person and we need this for a salary. We’d rather not do that. We’d rather put our donors’ money toward programs, resources that go directly to help people, and that sort of thing. That is part of the guidance I try to provide. I don’t want people to waste their time or our time with an application that I know is just not going to perform.
 Hugh:One of the deficits we see often is that there is an organization trying to fly by tradition and history by the seat of their pants without a strategy.
 By the way, Russell, he is a fellow musician. He is an actor/musician. He has been a professional production for the past couple of weeks, so he far exceeds my capabilities.
 We need a map. What do you sing when? When do you go off stage? When do you go on stage? When do the trumpets play? The way we think is there is a core map for where we’re going and how we’re going to get there and what kind of impact we’re going to have. That gives us substance for our thinking.
 When people are looking at funding, if there is a deficit in leadership or lack of strategy, are those pieces what we might call capacity-building? Are there capacity-building grants for them to up their game so to speak?
 Bill:There are. There certainly are. For example, let’s say somebody needs new computer equipment. We have helped people with that before, but only if we understand what they are going to use that computer equipment for. If you apply for a grant saying, “I need new computers,” that’s great, and we can assume a certain number of things. What I’d really like to see is “We need these computers because we are putting them in front of school-age children to make them more familiar with technology. It will impact 80 kids.” That kind of detail is very helpful. If it’s capacity-building, that’s great, but what are you building that capacity for? What’s your plan? Anything like that is more helpful than not having that information.
 Hugh:Russell, you’re here and smiling. I’m sure you have some reflections or additional questions for Bill Bodine. You sat on the other side approaching grantors. This stuff, I’m sure, rings true for you, does it not?
 Russell:Yes, it does. One of the biggest mistakes people make is to contort what they’re doing into the requirements of a funding source they are not familiar with. To back up further than that, the number one reason grant proposals are turned down is because they don’t follow instructions. If you do that with a government grant, I have sat on grant panels for three years, if they don’t follow the instructions, we don’t even read it. It goes on the pile. I have seen some bad proposals. It may be a really good one, but because they didn’t follow the instructions… There is a strategy to this. The first piece of that is making sure you’re talking to the right source. You get these applications that don’t fit what you’re doing because people will sit and do a shotgun/M50 machine gun approach where they apply to 150 foundations and see what sticks.
 Bill:Like a one-size-fits-all kind of thing. That’s not good.
 Russell:And it doesn’t work. There is a strategy and a process. I have mind-mapped that a bit. I need to build a course on that. I have a couple of courses, but that’s one I need to build. I’m working on one for donors, too, at the moment. There is a strategy and there is a process. Everybody that sends you a grant proposal should be calling you on the phone and talking to you just to get clear because the guidelines are out there, the instructions are out there, the requirements are out there, but when you take a few minutes to call, ask about some things. Please do your homework, folks. You don’t want to ask people information that is already on the website. What you really want to do is get a feel of what is going on between the lines. Are there some things within this broad category that are really important to the foundation right now? What sort of things have they funded recently? Talk a little bit about your project. I’m thinking about does this fit in what is important to you? If not, what would be more of a fit? Would it be all right if I send you a proposal based on what you’re thinking?
 Hugh:Can I slate that data point for just a second? What he outlined was an exploratory conversation. What does that look like from what you sit? Sorry to interrupt you, Russell. I just wanted to capture that. To me, that was a notable sound bite.
 Bill:Russell and I are definitely on the same page here in terms of making sure you follow the instructions. But also what he said is really important about knowing what the grantor is and what resonates with them.
 The other piece is: What is a reasonable amount to ask for? All these foundations have different amounts they are comfortable providing. With our foundation, we gave away $1.7 million last year alone, but it went to 175 different nonprofits. That includes scholarship money for high school students going to college. The amount of money that we have is not as huge as many community foundations might be, and it gets spread out over a large number of agencies. If someone asks us for $100,000 today, that is not something we can really do without taking away from our other responsibilities. I like to sort of give people an idea of what is a reasonable amount to ask for and what we can do. That tends to be helpful, I think. That is another piece.
 Russell:That is knowing what your source is all about. Community foundations, which is a donor-advised fund because people have purposes, is it always is in the guidelines. You will see a range of funding that is awarded. That breaks things down into pieces, put them in sequence. What can you accomplish with that? It’s understanding how much you have and how much you need. Here is the thing that I want to stress to any nonprofits out there who are listening. It’s every bit as difficult, if not more, to get this money into the hands of people who will make good use of it than it is to apply for it and get it. Community foundations, a lot of family foundations are running lean. They don’t have all the people and tools that they have to try to give technical support to these nonprofits. What a community foundation does is work with smaller organizations. Finding good projects is really difficult. You have to put yourself in their shoes and understand that it’s not just difficult for you to get the money, it’s difficult for them to find projects to invest in and make sure that money is making the impact it’s intended.
 Bill:That’s right, Russell. The biggest sense of responsibility I have is to remember that it’s not my money. This was money provided to us by donors, individuals, corporations, and families who have a dream. They really have a desire to do something important with that money. I always have to remember that I need to find things that are worthy of those desires and that I am fulfilling that responsibility. If I don’t, I am not only letting those people down, but I am also possibly ruining potential contributions to the foundation to continue that purpose. That is a real responsibility that I feel strongly about.
 Hugh:While Russell is formulating his difficult question… As you’re looking at projects, is there any value for looking at collaboration coming to you, like two, three, or four different entities coming to you and saying they are going to do something together?
 Bill:Very highly. Again, getting back to that core value of trying to do the most good for the community we possibly can with our ultimately limited resources, any time we can encourage collaboration- One of the things we are in a good position to do in my spot is look for gaps in services and look for overlap. There is a lot of both quite frankly. So trying to get some of the smaller nonprofits to talk to each other, it might be the people providing food or shelter or furniture, or even arts organizations. How can we encourage collaboration with the ultimate purpose being how we can get our dollars to work as efficiently as possible and to do the most good they can do. Yeah, Hugh, that’s a vital point. You hit on something really important. We have to try to encourage collaboration. We just started to scratch that surface.
 Hugh:Maybe there is a place SynerVision could play in facilitating some conversation.
 Bill:I think so.
 Hugh:We have to get Russell over here from Denver.
 Bill:If I lived in Denver, I’m not sure I’d ever leave. Maybe we can get Russell to come because Lynchburg is great, too.
 Russell:I’m happy to come out there and see what’s happening now. I have some friends out in Virginia Beach. I have excuses to come over and poke around and have some fun.
 The challenge that you talked about of getting people to collaborate, this scarcity thinking that I’m not going to share my resources with anyone, is trying to get people to break out of that way of thinking. I think even something as simple as saying we encourage collaboration on projects that involve collaboration between a number of entities that are different from what is out there will be given extra special consideration so that maybe triggers something in people’s minds to say let’s talk to other people. There seems to be a lot of resistance to that. I don’t know why. More hands makes the work lighter.
 Bill:I think you’re right. I think we need to get at the sources of those feelings. Some people may have a control issue. I need to control this so I can make sure it goes in the direction I want it to go in. Or some of it is just not knowing who the other leaders out there are. If we can identify those reasons, then we can appeal to those people based on whatever their sensitivity is. Maybe we can provide assurances and say, “If we combine with this other group and they provide a service, you can still run that. You can still be in charge of that. Let’s say if we can’t strengthen your organization by getting some help from over here,” or whatever your trigger is. If we can identify those, then we may have a chance to approach it properly with a chance for success.
 Hugh:You could apply for one of the grants at SynerVision. You could say, “Hey, we want to fund this project. We are going to ask for SynerVision to group you together and come up with a plan to present this to us.” It would be the work that we do, facilitating people collaborating. 
 Bill:And the carat for them is these funds are available in terms of the grant. You have to figure out- Just like with donors. What is their hot button? What appeals to them? When you hit resistance from people who maybe are not willing to collaborate, maybe they are in that overused term of being in their own silos—that is the buzz phrase for the year—but whatever it is, and we can figure out what that is and address that, then we maybe have a chance to hook up some of these collaborations.
 Hugh:It’s an exploratory conversation first. Get some knowledge. Part of what I see, and I think you have, too, is people don’t understand how to collaborate or how to get it started. We think consensus and collaboration are the same as- What’s the other side? Compromise. A lose-lose. A consensus is a win-win. A collaboration is how we do consensus. We come together with a common purpose and a common mind. Actually, we can make the dollars go further because we are making lighter work for everybody.
 Bill:Sometimes it’s just that people are paddling as hard as they can and they don’t feel they have time. Who wants to go to another meeting unless you’re sure it will be extremely beneficial? Some of it is just battling that. Whatever it is, we ought to be able to figure it out and address it.
 Hugh:I think it’s a new way of effectiveness here. Our initials, people in business invest money for ROI. In nonprofits, people invest money for ROL, return on life. How we get there is ROR, return on relationship. What you’re talking about is let’s develop a relationship with the funder to know that we’re in sync. We were both smiling when you were talking about the intent of the donor. We ask people why they want to serve on the board and what they want done with their money. We don’t really go there because we don’t think about it. So really, how do we understand the intent of the donor?
 Russell, you had some time. Come back to Bill here with a goodly framed question. Couldn’t get that out.
 Russell:That is why I left the IRS. People started thinking I was this horrible, scary guy, and that’s just not true. Hugh is trying to turn me into this evil quizmaster that will send the guest running for the exit. That’s not the truth.
 You talked about getting the money into programs. I think that a lot of this scarcity thinking is really centered around the fact that for some nonprofits, because they don’t have diverse funding, they’re worried about how to keep the lights on and pay the bills that eats up a lot of our resources. How much of that do you think is a factor in people not collaborating?
 Bill:It’s hard to quantify it. That’s a good question. It is a factor. I think we can safely say it’s a big factor. What percentage? I would have a hard time putting my fingers on that. That’s part of the job is trying to make sure you’re helping people take care of those basic needs so that they feel more available or open to diving deeper into this stuff. I don’t really know if that answers your question, but I think you have identified a big factor. How to quantify that, I’m not sure. In different organizations, it varies widely, I would guess.
 Russell:That falls in line with the airline safety theory of putting your own mask on first. People really feel they would actually be taking something away from themselves to collaborate when in fact they might find some extra resources for their programs. This is the motivation for trying to find other ways. We live and die by the grant. We did have some private donors and other sources. When I was working for the tribe, we spent a whole lot of time focusing on grants as opposed to any other sources of revenue. We did try to start some businesses. There is a lot of snake oil out there. You have to keep your eyes open. That diversity of funding is important, and building relationships with donors is critical. That funding usually has more flexibility on the bottom end. When we start getting into the top end of the donors, they are usually a little bit more focused with what they want to see happen with that money. It’s trying to get other sources of revenue in the door. Grants are not intended to keep you operating. They are for special purposes: to build them, test them until you can make them sustainable. That’s another mistake folks make with grants.
 Bill:The other comment I would make on that is you are exactly right. The other thing is grants, we tell people that you can’t put us in your budget for next year and assume you will get a grant every year. We have two grant cycles a year. We evaluate those separately every cycle. You can’t count on that grant income. If you’re good at it, you may have a good track record. You really have to develop other resources for funds that are steadier than that. I guess you found that with your Native American work.
 Hugh:When you review people, they have to submit financials or something. Do you look for alternate sources of funding?
 Bill:Yes, we do. It’s one way you judge the strength of the organization. Do they have other sources of funds? I don’t really want people who depend solely on us for their annual budget. There are some smaller agencies that probably truth be known they are very dependent on us. It’s a stronger application if they can show us other sources of funds or have programs that generate funds. That helps the application.
 Hugh:There is a lot of data here that I think is helpful to any grant application. Understand what the grantor wants to achieve. Know about them. Follow the directions. Be very clear on the impact of what the money is going to provide.
 Here is another topic. We don’t think about the administrative. I imagine a $5,000 grant would have fewer administrative requirements than a $500,000 grant or a $5 million grant. So there is some reporting back of how the money was utilized. How important is that?
 Bill:It’s really important. Quite honestly, there is not really much difference for us because our grants generally run from a couple thousand to $25,000. We don’t do half-a-million dollar grants. The administrative requirements are essentially the same for all the grants we provide. We feel it’s our responsibility to our donors that first of all, the money was used for the purpose that was stated, and also that the impact that was expected was achieved or nearly achieved as well as could be done. We require written documentation of all that within a year from receiving the grant so that we can have a record of that and show the money was used for what our donors and we intended it to be used for and what the agency said it was going to be used for. That’s a big deal to us. I know there are foundations that struggle with that sort of validation. They will go back later and find out there have been some discrepancies, or that the money wasn’t used for what it said it was going to be used for. Whether you get $1,000 from us or $25,000 from us, you have to jump through the same hoops.
 Russell:If you are going to have a high-performance organization, you should track everything you do. This is strategy as we lay it out. You’re tracking everything you’re doing. This should not really be a stretch to reach out to your funding sources and say this is what you did. You built the framework, you built the strategy, you’re tracking what you’re doing, and you’re getting it out there. Sometimes, things don’t go well. People don’t want to be transparent. I went to my mastermind network that I have out here. I put some stuff on the table. I got a lot of suggestions that were helpful. Some of the stuff was very basic, but it’s the transparency. Now these folks can help me more than they were ever able to if I hadn’t done this. The transparency supported me. Sometimes things don’t go as well as they’re planned, but we need to be in constant contact and transparent so that we can right the ship and get it back on track. A lot of foundations don’t have the resources to track because you guys have to review everything you get back to make sure that project is on track. If you’re effective, you’re doing that. In structuring these programs, getting back the strategy piece and building things out, you will want to create systems that capture all the information you need, but they’re easy to understand, access, and use by the people who are running the programs. If the evaluation tools are too hard, people will not use anything that is hard to implement. It has to be simple. It has to flow in line with their work. As these programs run, they are easy to track. It doesn’t become a stretch at the end of the quarter, at the end of year to scramble and finish these reports. Been there, done that. That’s how I know. If you got these things as part of your process, you can just roll this stuff out because you are tracking it all the time.
 Hugh:Part of what he referred to is we teach people when you have a strategy, you have milestones. This is your success. You’ve reached this. Then a milestone, you have a budget over here. When you pay a dollar, you achieve a milestone, so there is a redundancy in the budget. We find a lot of organizations don’t really have any way to track things because they don’t have a system in place. It’s the Covey principle, as you were talking, Russell, of begin with the end in mind. You’re going to have to do a report, so let’s think backwards. What do we need to create now so it’s not a big deal? The question to you is: Do you have pamphlets or educational materials or trainings for people to master these skills they may not have?
 Bill:The answer to that is no, we really don’t. That is not something we have seen in our role up to now. What we have tried to do is as Russell was saying make it as easy for people as possible. Three years ago, we required paper copies of all applications, ten copies, so you’d get a stack of paper a foot tall from this little agency. Not only that, but all the trees we were killing. We have brought the process online on our website. While you’re there, you can look at all the grants we made last year, who we granted to, how much, and for what purpose. We tried to make that as simple as possible and with as few clicks as possible.
 To your point, Hugh, I think maybe that’s one of the next steps. I really see organizations like yours being at the forefront of helping people gain the tools they need to be successful. I don’t know that with the staff I have, which is me, another full-time person, and a two-day-a-week accountant, that we could provide a lot of these resources. But there are good people out here like yourself who can do that. We’d certainly be interested in helping out.
 Hugh:Sure. We might have something we could provide for you. Russell, that was a good point you opened up there. What else are you stirring up in that no-hair head of yours?
 Bill:It’s a good one. I’m not going to make any comments about hair. I’m right behind ya.
 Hugh:Oh, he has hair!
 Russell:I’m going to have to take a razor to it because when it comes in, it’s pretty gray. I promised myself after I recovered from chemotherapy six years ago, no formula. I’m going to remind myself that I’m on blessed time, I got a few extra days, and I’m going to wear it proudly.
 That is part of the piece. A lot of nonprofits don’t have the budget and development. That’s something community foundations- Denver Foundation will provide technical support to grantees who they have granted funds to before. You spread too thin in terms of resources to do that. Partnerships between entities like SynerVision and my company and community foundations makes sense to go in and talk to people and help them get the training they need. Doing that for a community foundation, you touch a lot of entities because I don’t know how many organizations you have, but the Denver Foundation probably has somewhere between 200-300 organizations who are grantees and members. That is a common size. To be able to talk to people about these things and to help them and to provide that sort of technical assistance that you haven’t been able to provide is still good stewardship. It’s about good stewardship and protecting those investments. That is something that benefits grantees and the foundation. It’s really about going out and making that impact and supporting one another. Maybe something like a mastermind group from time to time. Some of our community foundations have put on a training event. But a mastermind, I just left a mastermind for my business. Is that something you have thought about with some of the folks you work with? Creating a mastermind group.
 Bill:That’s something that Hugh and I have had conversations about. That’s not something I have really envisioned our foundation doing. But I think in collaboration with people like you guys and maybe others, that’s something we could work toward. I think it’s a great idea.
 Hugh:Having a conversation with people about the gaps – they will discover something. We will discover what they think they need versus what they really need. The problem with blind spots is you can’t see them. It’s like your hair, Russell. I am glad it’s coming in gray because you have earned every one of them. Are there any pitfalls that we have not identified in this conversation for people who are applying?
 Bill:I think we have touched on the ones that I can really think of. Make sure you ask for the right kind of things. Make sure you ask for the right amount of money based on what you have been able to find out about the foundation or whomever you are applying to. Make sure your application is complete and according to the requirements specified by the grantor. We have touched on all those things. Those are the key things, Hugh.
 The other thing I would mention is follow-up. The grant process doesn’t end when you get that phone call or that letter that says, “Congratulations, you have been granted such-and-such money,” or the phone call that you might get- It’s a good idea to make sure that you thank the organization, that you show a level of gratitude. We all like to feel like it’s appreciated. That can only help. Particularly, in a community like ours, where most of these organizations will apply regularly, what you want is to be looked upon favorably as someone who has been A) a good steward of that money and B) appreciated getting it in the first place, and that we develop a relationship where we know who you are, what you’re doing, and why you’re a good outfit and good people doing good work.
 Hugh:That’s a fundamental principle. I’m so surprised people don’t honor it.
 Bill:Some people are really good at it, but not everybody. The ones who are good at it might be in the minority. But that’s an important piece. We all like to be thanked and to have it known that what was done is appreciated and that you take it seriously. I would just encourage the grantees to make sure they do that.
 Hugh:Attitude or gratitude. I’m thinking back over the in-kind grants I’ve done. In my symposium, you had a board meeting…
 Bill:I know. How lame can you get?
 Hugh:People applied for a grant for that even though it was $40, and they got it. They were very grateful. But there were some small community leaders who didn’t have any money who I granted. And only one of them said thank you. One. One.
 Bill:It is a bit of a lost art.
 Hugh:It is. Like conversation. We are going to give you the last word here. We try to keep it under an hour. This has been very helpful information. 
 Bill, this is great. He came over to my house so we could hang out and do this. One day, he’ll have a camera on his computer.
 Bill:I just wanted to come over and check out your house.
 Hugh:Do you like it so far?
 Bill:It’s great.
 Hugh:So Bill, what do you want to leave people with? What’s a challenge or a tip or a thought you want to leave people with as we are ending this really good interview?
 Bill:Always remember the work you’re doing is critically important. On the days when it feels like things are piling up and you feel varied, you are making a difference. I get to jump out of bed every morning and think, Wow, what can happen that will help the community be a better place to live? That’s incredibly motivating. Don’t lose sight of it. That’s what we’re here for. Yeah, it’s about fundraising, it’s about giving grants, but it’s really not. What we’re here for is to improve our communities and give people a sense that their money is going to help their fellow man and help their community. The vast majority don’t give money to foundations for tax purposes and things like that. It’s about philanthropy. We’re helping people feel good, and we should feel good about that.
 Hugh:Most people don’t give money because of donations. It’s because they want to make a difference.
 Bill:It’s not for taxes. It’s because it makes them feel good. They do it with their heart.
 Hugh:I see you smiling, Russell. Thank you again for being here, my friend.
 Russell:Always a pleasure. If you don’t tell people what difference their dollars are making, they will put them somewhere else. You stay in touch no matter what the results is. Bill, thanks a million. Hugh, thanks for making it through a broadcast without the magic phrase.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Bill Bodine </strong>is a graduate of the soon to be University of Lynchburg with both undergraduate and graduate degrees there.  Much of his career was spent in healthcare, but he is now the President and CEO of the Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation, which was formed in 1972 and last year provided grants to local nonprofits and scholarships totaling just under $1.7 million.</p> <p> </p> <p><strong>The Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em>. This is Hugh Ballou. My guest today is a dear friend of mine who I have known for less than a year because I have been in Lynchburg, Virginia for less than a year. He was one of the first people I met at a rotary breakfast. Bill Bodine. He runs an organization that is now known as the Lynchburg Community Foundation. Bill Bodine, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em>.</p> <p><strong>Bill Bodine:</strong> Glad to be here. Appreciate it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>And there are people who are watching it on video and listening to the podcast. I like to start out these sessions by asking my guest to tell us about themselves, your journey. How did you end up doing this really important work that you do?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>Mostly luck, Hugh. I’m originally from New Jersey. I ended up in Lynchburg via Lynchburg College, which in two weeks will be the University of Lynchburg. I didn’t necessarily intend to stay, but I got a job working in health care right out of college. The longer I was here, the more I liked it. I have been a resident of Lynchburg now for about 40 years. I know I don’t look nearly that old.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>You don’t.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>It’s true. It’s true. As far as getting into fundraising, I spent most of my career in health care. I was really looking for something that I could be more excited about and feel like I was making a real difference and helping the community. I have served on several boards. It was important to me to find something that was more service-oriented. I luckily saw that at the time, the Greater Lynchburg Community Trust was looking for a president and CEO because my predecessor was retiring. I went after the job and three years ago, they gave it to me. I have loved that. It’s been a little bit of a circuitous journey, but I finally figured out what I want to be when I grow up.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Oh, I don’t think men ever grow up.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>I don’t know if I ever will, but at least I figured out what I want to be. It’s been really enjoyable.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>And you and I both drive convertibles.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>We do. We do. I have a little Miata that I try not to get in trouble with. Not driving it today because it’s too darn hot with the top down.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>It’s 97 in Lynchburg.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>I know it’s crazy. Next time it cools down, I’ll be in it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Probably had the remarks about, “Oh, it’s a mid-life crisis.”</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>That would be true if I was in midlife.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>It’s too late.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>A late-life crisis. More accurately. I have always enjoyed driving cars, and it’s a fun car to drive. I know your Mustang is a lot of fun.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>It is fun. It’s fun to go slow.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>It’s fun. I’m not in a hurry. I just enjoy the journey.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>It takes getting some age on. Also, the wisdom of leadership is impacted by our journey and our age. You came into this leadership position, I don’t think by dumb luck. I think people looked at you and said, “Oh, this guy can do it.” From what I’ve heard from people, you have stepped up to that plate.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>I feel like things are going well. I think the things that I bring to it are I really enjoy people. I enjoy talking with people. I have a passion for the mission of the organization. If you have that, you are more than halfway toward doing what you really need to do. I have a great story to tell, and I enjoy telling it. People are willing to listen. That’s been nice.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>What does leadership mean? You lead an organization that leads and supports leaders of organizations. There is no real membership.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>There is no membership. My leadership stems from the fact that we touched 175 nonprofit organizations last year alone in terms of providing grant money. I get to interact with a lot of other leaders. I try to help them fine-tune their grant application process. I also try to pay attention to what the needs of the community are. How can we work together, and how can we best serve others? The leadership part of it comes from being in a chair that touches a lot of other leaders in terms of the grants and trying to make this a better community in any way we can. That’s just a byproduct of the job, but I enjoy that, too.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>I picked up something. You just revealed our topic today: grants, and how to do a better job of applying for grants. You slipped in something there, and I’m going to pull it out. You work with people so they do a better job. People just don’t know how to apply for grants mostly.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>It’s all over the board, Hugh. Some people are really good at it and have a lot of experience doing it. Quite honestly, some of the smaller nonprofits that we work with, that’s not what people are trained to do or have done or have a lot of time to do. A lot of the smaller nonprofits are making things work with as few staff as they can and as little resources as they can. What I’ve found is that it’s helpful to work with people and speak with them about fine-tuning their grant. What I want to do is give them the best opportunity for success. Our foundation is not there to hold onto money. Our foundation is there to give that money away according to our donors’ wishes. The better job I can do helping people access those funds means I do a better job for our donors. That’s really what it’s about.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>That’s amazing. I don’t think everybody understands that. This is a good point to make. I posted on the web page some of the questions we’re going to address that came from you because you know what you’re talking about.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>Maybe. Depends on who you ask.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Part of my career I served megachurches. I was in the interview process in the five biggest megachurches at the same time. Nobody knew what questions to ask. That was amazing. I pretty much had to provide my own questions.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>It helps things go smoother if we have an idea of what we’re going to talk about.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Or to get to the bottom line. What is it we need to know about this? Let’s start at the top. If I’m going to make a grant request- I run a 501(c)3. It’s a foundation. I give away services. I don’t give away money. I help people leverage what they have and attract money. Part of my work could conceivably be preparing people to do this process. What I tell my nonprofits is that funders are gonna look at the impact of your work, what results it will create. I want to check my accuracy. If we give you this money, what results will it produce? They will also look at your team. Can they really implement it? Are those the factors that are high?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Those are the big deal. That is the real meat and potatoes of it. You could actually go back to a baseline. One of the first things I would tell people is if you are going to apply for a grant, make sure you review what exactly the grantor is looking for in terms of information. It surprises me occasionally how many applications we get that are incomplete because people have not thoroughly read what it is we are asking for. We get grant applications that come in without a list of the board of directors, which is one of the things we ask for. I would encourage people at the very baseline of it to read very carefully what the requirements are for the grant application, and make sure you include all that information. That seems basic and elementary, but it surprises me how many of them we get that are not fully completed. First and foremost, make sure you understand what that grantor is looking for and what their requirements are in applying for them. Make sure it’s complete because it’s a little bit like when you write your resume, make sure you spell things correctly. First impressions are important. That is maybe the first step.</p> <p>But you’re absolutely right. We like to know first of all what do you want the money for, and how is that going to help my community be a better place? How is that going to satisfy the wishes of the donors who have given us the money in the first place? First and foremost, I am bound by their wishes and their desires. My responsibility is to use the money that our donors have provided as wisely as possible and as closely to their various intents as possible.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want to introduce you to somebody who got stuck on the viewer side of this, who is my co-host. He has been AWOL here. Russell David Dennis is joining us in this podcast from Denver, Colorado. I thought you were maybe having technical difficulty today. Russell showed up a year and a half ago and was very consistent with this. Russell is one of our WayFinders. It is our antidote to a consultant. It’s a WayFinder. We guide you; we don’t tell you what to do. We help you define what you’re going to do. Russell has been through the whole methodology of SynerVision, and he is now one of our bonafide WayFinders. I made him co-host. He outshines me many times. I like to say I pale in comparison. I’ve used that line. Russell, welcome. You’re muted.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Greetings. I had to turn to my tablet. My computer has been loading updates all morning, and it doesn’t seem to want to finish.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Welcome to the party. I already warned him that my co-host has the zingers of the questions. He is braced for ya. I’m getting chats from across the screen. Russell, we’re talking about grants today and what makes a good grant request. So far, Bill has validated our premise that we need to have worthy goals in terms of what difference we are going to make, and people on board to do that. Bill, people maybe do read the requirements. You think they just forget? Or they weren’t careful? I guess you go back to people and resubmit.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> We do. We review all the applications. Before we put them in front of our distribution committee, we review them for completeness and accuracy. We try to track down questions we know they might ask. But yeah, it’s hard to know the reasons, Hugh, why people don’t always include everything. Sometimes they don’t have the information, and sometimes they forget, and sometimes they are just flustered by the process and don’t think it through well enough. Whatever the reasons, again, what we want to do is help people be as successful as possible. I just throw that out there as step one. Make sure you read the requirements and do your best to fulfill them. If you have a question or problem, call us, or call whomever you are applying to and ask for their help.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Are there community foundations in every area in the country?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Just about. When the Greater Lynchburg Community Foundation was formed in 1972, there were probably about 30 community foundations nationally. We know from the Council of Foundations in Washington that in 1975, there were only 50. So we were formed in ‘72. There are now over 850. So they are all over the place now. A community foundation is a little different from family foundations or corporate foundations. Often family foundations and corporate foundations have more specific purposes. Ours is probably more general. We have more general purposes than a lot of other foundations. We cover the waterfront. As I mentioned before, we gave grants to 175 nonprofits in Lynchburg and the four surrounding counties last year alone. We will support basic human needs, the arts, historic preservation, the environment, all kinds of things. Most foundations you’ll find have a little bit narrower focus. That’s true for hospital foundations, the United Way for example. All of them do fantastic work. But our reach is a little broader. For some people, that fills in.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It fills in some gaps I would imagine.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Yeah, it does. We have a flexibility that appeals to people. The other thing is community foundations are intended to be forever. We are perpetual. The appeal we have for people is that you can set up a fund, name it after your grandmother or whomever you want, and it will be here long after you’re gone and probably after your children are gone. It leaves a legacy. That is one of the appeals to community foundations.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I found more and more people who are interested in the legacy component. They are the instigator. They start this thing. But they are not going to be around forever. We want to have impact that goes on after our lifetime. There is a value. When they get money and enough money that they put it under management, you assist with that.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong> Our purpose is to grow the fund and to distribute monies annually or more often than that sometimes from that fund, but continue to grow it so it continues to expand and lasts as long as the world lasts is the idea. People like that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m hearing some fundamental principles. One, which we talked around, is pick up the phone and call. I don’t think people do that who are applying for grants. Maybe not all foundations are equally as successful as yours.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>Well, I don’t know about that. I haven’t worked at other foundations. I’ve talked to some colleagues. I think we are all generally here for the same purpose, which is to help people out and help the community be as seamless as possible. I really love it when someone calls me and says, “Hey, can I talk to you about this grant? I’ve been thinking about this proposal. Can you help me fine-tune it a little bit?” I do a lot of that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Part of our due diligence, and Russell worked 11 years on an Indian reservation and he did grants, he comes up with another experience. Part of our job is to do our due diligence to learn about the grantor. What is the purpose of the grant? What requirements are there? Will what we want funded match up with what you want to fund? And spell the name right.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>Sure. We get applications that are for things we can’t do. If an organization is renting a building, and they come to us and ask for renovations to that building, that is something we really won’t do because we don’t pay for renovations to a building that is not owned by the organization. We only provide money to nonprofits, and we don’t want to improve a building for a landlord. We want to help that organization. I try to guide people not to do those kinds of things. We typically don’t like to pay operating costs such as salaries. We need to hire a new person and we need this for a salary. We’d rather not do that. We’d rather put our donors’ money toward programs, resources that go directly to help people, and that sort of thing. That is part of the guidance I try to provide. I don’t want people to waste their time or our time with an application that I know is just not going to perform.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>One of the deficits we see often is that there is an organization trying to fly by tradition and history by the seat of their pants without a strategy.</p> <p>By the way, Russell, he is a fellow musician. He is an actor/musician. He has been a professional production for the past couple of weeks, so he far exceeds my capabilities.</p> <p>We need a map. What do you sing when? When do you go off stage? When do you go on stage? When do the trumpets play? The way we think is there is a core map for where we’re going and how we’re going to get there and what kind of impact we’re going to have. That gives us substance for our thinking.</p> <p>When people are looking at funding, if there is a deficit in leadership or lack of strategy, are those pieces what we might call capacity-building? Are there capacity-building grants for them to up their game so to speak?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>There are. There certainly are. For example, let’s say somebody needs new computer equipment. We have helped people with that before, but only if we understand what they are going to use that computer equipment for. If you apply for a grant saying, “I need new computers,” that’s great, and we can assume a certain number of things. What I’d really like to see is “We need these computers because we are putting them in front of school-age children to make them more familiar with technology. It will impact 80 kids.” That kind of detail is very helpful. If it’s capacity-building, that’s great, but what are you building that capacity for? What’s your plan? Anything like that is more helpful than not having that information.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Russell, you’re here and smiling. I’m sure you have some reflections or additional questions for Bill Bodine. You sat on the other side approaching grantors. This stuff, I’m sure, rings true for you, does it not?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>Yes, it does. One of the biggest mistakes people make is to contort what they’re doing into the requirements of a funding source they are not familiar with. To back up further than that, the number one reason grant proposals are turned down is because they don’t follow instructions. If you do that with a government grant, I have sat on grant panels for three years, if they don’t follow the instructions, we don’t even read it. It goes on the pile. I have seen some bad proposals. It may be a really good one, but because they didn’t follow the instructions… There is a strategy to this. The first piece of that is making sure you’re talking to the right source. You get these applications that don’t fit what you’re doing because people will sit and do a shotgun/M50 machine gun approach where they apply to 150 foundations and see what sticks.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>Like a one-size-fits-all kind of thing. That’s not good.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>And it doesn’t work. There is a strategy and a process. I have mind-mapped that a bit. I need to build a course on that. I have a couple of courses, but that’s one I need to build. I’m working on one for donors, too, at the moment. There is a strategy and there is a process. Everybody that sends you a grant proposal should be calling you on the phone and talking to you just to get clear because the guidelines are out there, the instructions are out there, the requirements are out there, but when you take a few minutes to call, ask about some things. Please do your homework, folks. You don’t want to ask people information that is already on the website. What you really want to do is get a feel of what is going on between the lines. Are there some things within this broad category that are really important to the foundation right now? What sort of things have they funded recently? Talk a little bit about your project. I’m thinking about does this fit in what is important to you? If not, what would be more of a fit? Would it be all right if I send you a proposal based on what you’re thinking?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Can I slate that data point for just a second? What he outlined was an exploratory conversation. What does that look like from what you sit? Sorry to interrupt you, Russell. I just wanted to capture that. To me, that was a notable sound bite.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>Russell and I are definitely on the same page here in terms of making sure you follow the instructions. But also what he said is really important about knowing what the grantor is and what resonates with them.</p> <p>The other piece is: What is a reasonable amount to ask for? All these foundations have different amounts they are comfortable providing. With our foundation, we gave away $1.7 million last year alone, but it went to 175 different nonprofits. That includes scholarship money for high school students going to college. The amount of money that we have is not as huge as many community foundations might be, and it gets spread out over a large number of agencies. If someone asks us for $100,000 today, that is not something we can really do without taking away from our other responsibilities. I like to sort of give people an idea of what is a reasonable amount to ask for and what we can do. That tends to be helpful, I think. That is another piece.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>That is knowing what your source is all about. Community foundations, which is a donor-advised fund because people have purposes, is it always is in the guidelines. You will see a range of funding that is awarded. That breaks things down into pieces, put them in sequence. What can you accomplish with that? It’s understanding how much you have and how much you need. Here is the thing that I want to stress to any nonprofits out there who are listening. It’s every bit as difficult, if not more, to get this money into the hands of people who will make good use of it than it is to apply for it and get it. Community foundations, a lot of family foundations are running lean. They don’t have all the people and tools that they have to try to give technical support to these nonprofits. What a community foundation does is work with smaller organizations. Finding good projects is really difficult. You have to put yourself in their shoes and understand that it’s not just difficult for you to get the money, it’s difficult for them to find projects to invest in and make sure that money is making the impact it’s intended.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>That’s right, Russell. The biggest sense of responsibility I have is to remember that it’s not my money. This was money provided to us by donors, individuals, corporations, and families who have a dream. They really have a desire to do something important with that money. I always have to remember that I need to find things that are worthy of those desires and that I am fulfilling that responsibility. If I don’t, I am not only letting those people down, but I am also possibly ruining potential contributions to the foundation to continue that purpose. That is a real responsibility that I feel strongly about.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>While Russell is formulating his difficult question… As you’re looking at projects, is there any value for looking at collaboration coming to you, like two, three, or four different entities coming to you and saying they are going to do something together?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>Very highly. Again, getting back to that core value of trying to do the most good for the community we possibly can with our ultimately limited resources, any time we can encourage collaboration- One of the things we are in a good position to do in my spot is look for gaps in services and look for overlap. There is a lot of both quite frankly. So trying to get some of the smaller nonprofits to talk to each other, it might be the people providing food or shelter or furniture, or even arts organizations. How can we encourage collaboration with the ultimate purpose being how we can get our dollars to work as efficiently as possible and to do the most good they can do. Yeah, Hugh, that’s a vital point. You hit on something really important. We have to try to encourage collaboration. We just started to scratch that surface.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Maybe there is a place SynerVision could play in facilitating some conversation.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>I think so.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>We have to get Russell over here from Denver.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>If I lived in Denver, I’m not sure I’d ever leave. Maybe we can get Russell to come because Lynchburg is great, too.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>I’m happy to come out there and see what’s happening now. I have some friends out in Virginia Beach. I have excuses to come over and poke around and have some fun.</p> <p>The challenge that you talked about of getting people to collaborate, this scarcity thinking that I’m not going to share my resources with anyone, is trying to get people to break out of that way of thinking. I think even something as simple as saying we encourage collaboration on projects that involve collaboration between a number of entities that are different from what is out there will be given extra special consideration so that maybe triggers something in people’s minds to say let’s talk to other people. There seems to be a lot of resistance to that. I don’t know why. More hands makes the work lighter.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>I think you’re right. I think we need to get at the sources of those feelings. Some people may have a control issue. I need to control this so I can make sure it goes in the direction I want it to go in. Or some of it is just not knowing who the other leaders out there are. If we can identify those reasons, then we can appeal to those people based on whatever their sensitivity is. Maybe we can provide assurances and say, “If we combine with this other group and they provide a service, you can still run that. You can still be in charge of that. Let’s say if we can’t strengthen your organization by getting some help from over here,” or whatever your trigger is. If we can identify those, then we may have a chance to approach it properly with a chance for success.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>You could apply for one of the grants at SynerVision. You could say, “Hey, we want to fund this project. We are going to ask for SynerVision to group you together and come up with a plan to present this to us.” It would be the work that we do, facilitating people collaborating. </p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>And the carat for them is these funds are available in terms of the grant. You have to figure out- Just like with donors. What is their hot button? What appeals to them? When you hit resistance from people who maybe are not willing to collaborate, maybe they are in that overused term of being in their own silos—that is the buzz phrase for the year—but whatever it is, and we can figure out what that is and address that, then we maybe have a chance to hook up some of these collaborations.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>It’s an exploratory conversation first. Get some knowledge. Part of what I see, and I think you have, too, is people don’t understand how to collaborate or how to get it started. We think consensus and collaboration are the same as- What’s the other side? Compromise. A lose-lose. A consensus is a win-win. A collaboration is how we do consensus. We come together with a common purpose and a common mind. Actually, we can make the dollars go further because we are making lighter work for everybody.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>Sometimes it’s just that people are paddling as hard as they can and they don’t feel they have time. Who wants to go to another meeting unless you’re sure it will be extremely beneficial? Some of it is just battling that. Whatever it is, we ought to be able to figure it out and address it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>I think it’s a new way of effectiveness here. Our initials, people in business invest money for ROI. In nonprofits, people invest money for ROL, return on life. How we get there is ROR, return on relationship. What you’re talking about is let’s develop a relationship with the funder to know that we’re in sync. We were both smiling when you were talking about the intent of the donor. We ask people why they want to serve on the board and what they want done with their money. We don’t really go there because we don’t think about it. So really, how do we understand the intent of the donor?</p> <p>Russell, you had some time. Come back to Bill here with a goodly framed question. Couldn’t get that out.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>That is why I left the IRS. People started thinking I was this horrible, scary guy, and that’s just not true. Hugh is trying to turn me into this evil quizmaster that will send the guest running for the exit. That’s not the truth.</p> <p>You talked about getting the money into programs. I think that a lot of this scarcity thinking is really centered around the fact that for some nonprofits, because they don’t have diverse funding, they’re worried about how to keep the lights on and pay the bills that eats up a lot of our resources. How much of that do you think is a factor in people not collaborating?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>It’s hard to quantify it. That’s a good question. It is a factor. I think we can safely say it’s a big factor. What percentage? I would have a hard time putting my fingers on that. That’s part of the job is trying to make sure you’re helping people take care of those basic needs so that they feel more available or open to diving deeper into this stuff. I don’t really know if that answers your question, but I think you have identified a big factor. How to quantify that, I’m not sure. In different organizations, it varies widely, I would guess.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>That falls in line with the airline safety theory of putting your own mask on first. People really feel they would actually be taking something away from themselves to collaborate when in fact they might find some extra resources for their programs. This is the motivation for trying to find other ways. We live and die by the grant. We did have some private donors and other sources. When I was working for the tribe, we spent a whole lot of time focusing on grants as opposed to any other sources of revenue. We did try to start some businesses. There is a lot of snake oil out there. You have to keep your eyes open. That diversity of funding is important, and building relationships with donors is critical. That funding usually has more flexibility on the bottom end. When we start getting into the top end of the donors, they are usually a little bit more focused with what they want to see happen with that money. It’s trying to get other sources of revenue in the door. Grants are not intended to keep you operating. They are for special purposes: to build them, test them until you can make them sustainable. That’s another mistake folks make with grants.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>The other comment I would make on that is you are exactly right. The other thing is grants, we tell people that you can’t put us in your budget for next year and assume you will get a grant every year. We have two grant cycles a year. We evaluate those separately every cycle. You can’t count on that grant income. If you’re good at it, you may have a good track record. You really have to develop other resources for funds that are steadier than that. I guess you found that with your Native American work.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>When you review people, they have to submit financials or something. Do you look for alternate sources of funding?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>Yes, we do. It’s one way you judge the strength of the organization. Do they have other sources of funds? I don’t really want people who depend solely on us for their annual budget. There are some smaller agencies that probably truth be known they are very dependent on us. It’s a stronger application if they can show us other sources of funds or have programs that generate funds. That helps the application.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>There is a lot of data here that I think is helpful to any grant application. Understand what the grantor wants to achieve. Know about them. Follow the directions. Be very clear on the impact of what the money is going to provide.</p> <p>Here is another topic. We don’t think about the administrative. I imagine a $5,000 grant would have fewer administrative requirements than a $500,000 grant or a $5 million grant. So there is some reporting back of how the money was utilized. How important is that?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>It’s really important. Quite honestly, there is not really much difference for us because our grants generally run from a couple thousand to $25,000. We don’t do half-a-million dollar grants. The administrative requirements are essentially the same for all the grants we provide. We feel it’s our responsibility to our donors that first of all, the money was used for the purpose that was stated, and also that the impact that was expected was achieved or nearly achieved as well as could be done. We require written documentation of all that within a year from receiving the grant so that we can have a record of that and show the money was used for what our donors and we intended it to be used for and what the agency said it was going to be used for. That’s a big deal to us. I know there are foundations that struggle with that sort of validation. They will go back later and find out there have been some discrepancies, or that the money wasn’t used for what it said it was going to be used for. Whether you get $1,000 from us or $25,000 from us, you have to jump through the same hoops.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>If you are going to have a high-performance organization, you should track everything you do. This is strategy as we lay it out. You’re tracking everything you’re doing. This should not really be a stretch to reach out to your funding sources and say this is what you did. You built the framework, you built the strategy, you’re tracking what you’re doing, and you’re getting it out there. Sometimes, things don’t go well. People don’t want to be transparent. I went to my mastermind network that I have out here. I put some stuff on the table. I got a lot of suggestions that were helpful. Some of the stuff was very basic, but it’s the transparency. Now these folks can help me more than they were ever able to if I hadn’t done this. The transparency supported me. Sometimes things don’t go as well as they’re planned, but we need to be in constant contact and transparent so that we can right the ship and get it back on track. A lot of foundations don’t have the resources to track because you guys have to review everything you get back to make sure that project is on track. If you’re effective, you’re doing that. In structuring these programs, getting back the strategy piece and building things out, you will want to create systems that capture all the information you need, but they’re easy to understand, access, and use by the people who are running the programs. If the evaluation tools are too hard, people will not use anything that is hard to implement. It has to be simple. It has to flow in line with their work. As these programs run, they are easy to track. It doesn’t become a stretch at the end of the quarter, at the end of year to scramble and finish these reports. Been there, done that. That’s how I know. If you got these things as part of your process, you can just roll this stuff out because you are tracking it all the time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Part of what he referred to is we teach people when you have a strategy, you have milestones. This is your success. You’ve reached this. Then a milestone, you have a budget over here. When you pay a dollar, you achieve a milestone, so there is a redundancy in the budget. We find a lot of organizations don’t really have any way to track things because they don’t have a system in place. It’s the Covey principle, as you were talking, Russell, of begin with the end in mind. You’re going to have to do a report, so let’s think backwards. What do we need to create now so it’s not a big deal? The question to you is: Do you have pamphlets or educational materials or trainings for people to master these skills they may not have?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>The answer to that is no, we really don’t. That is not something we have seen in our role up to now. What we have tried to do is as Russell was saying make it as easy for people as possible. Three years ago, we required paper copies of all applications, ten copies, so you’d get a stack of paper a foot tall from this little agency. Not only that, but all the trees we were killing. We have brought the process online on our website. While you’re there, you can look at all the grants we made last year, who we granted to, how much, and for what purpose. We tried to make that as simple as possible and with as few clicks as possible.</p> <p>To your point, Hugh, I think maybe that’s one of the next steps. I really see organizations like yours being at the forefront of helping people gain the tools they need to be successful. I don’t know that with the staff I have, which is me, another full-time person, and a two-day-a-week accountant, that we could provide a lot of these resources. But there are good people out here like yourself who can do that. We’d certainly be interested in helping out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Sure. We might have something we could provide for you. Russell, that was a good point you opened up there. What else are you stirring up in that no-hair head of yours?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>It’s a good one. I’m not going to make any comments about hair. I’m right behind ya.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Oh, he has hair!</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>I’m going to have to take a razor to it because when it comes in, it’s pretty gray. I promised myself after I recovered from chemotherapy six years ago, no formula. I’m going to remind myself that I’m on blessed time, I got a few extra days, and I’m going to wear it proudly.</p> <p>That is part of the piece. A lot of nonprofits don’t have the budget and development. That’s something community foundations- Denver Foundation will provide technical support to grantees who they have granted funds to before. You spread too thin in terms of resources to do that. Partnerships between entities like SynerVision and my company and community foundations makes sense to go in and talk to people and help them get the training they need. Doing that for a community foundation, you touch a lot of entities because I don’t know how many organizations you have, but the Denver Foundation probably has somewhere between 200-300 organizations who are grantees and members. That is a common size. To be able to talk to people about these things and to help them and to provide that sort of technical assistance that you haven’t been able to provide is still good stewardship. It’s about good stewardship and protecting those investments. That is something that benefits grantees and the foundation. It’s really about going out and making that impact and supporting one another. Maybe something like a mastermind group from time to time. Some of our community foundations have put on a training event. But a mastermind, I just left a mastermind for my business. Is that something you have thought about with some of the folks you work with? Creating a mastermind group.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>That’s something that Hugh and I have had conversations about. That’s not something I have really envisioned our foundation doing. But I think in collaboration with people like you guys and maybe others, that’s something we could work toward. I think it’s a great idea.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Having a conversation with people about the gaps – they will discover something. We will discover what they think they need versus what they really need. The problem with blind spots is you can’t see them. It’s like your hair, Russell. I am glad it’s coming in gray because you have earned every one of them. Are there any pitfalls that we have not identified in this conversation for people who are applying?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>I think we have touched on the ones that I can really think of. Make sure you ask for the right kind of things. Make sure you ask for the right amount of money based on what you have been able to find out about the foundation or whomever you are applying to. Make sure your application is complete and according to the requirements specified by the grantor. We have touched on all those things. Those are the key things, Hugh.</p> <p>The other thing I would mention is follow-up. The grant process doesn’t end when you get that phone call or that letter that says, “Congratulations, you have been granted such-and-such money,” or the phone call that you might get- It’s a good idea to make sure that you thank the organization, that you show a level of gratitude. We all like to feel like it’s appreciated. That can only help. Particularly, in a community like ours, where most of these organizations will apply regularly, what you want is to be looked upon favorably as someone who has been A) a good steward of that money and B) appreciated getting it in the first place, and that we develop a relationship where we know who you are, what you’re doing, and why you’re a good outfit and good people doing good work.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>That’s a fundamental principle. I’m so surprised people don’t honor it.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>Some people are really good at it, but not everybody. The ones who are good at it might be in the minority. But that’s an important piece. We all like to be thanked and to have it known that what was done is appreciated and that you take it seriously. I would just encourage the grantees to make sure they do that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Attitude or gratitude. I’m thinking back over the in-kind grants I’ve done. In my symposium, you had a board meeting…</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>I know. How lame can you get?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>People applied for a grant for that even though it was $40, and they got it. They were very grateful. But there were some small community leaders who didn’t have any money who I granted. And only one of them said thank you. One. One.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>It is a bit of a lost art.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>It is. Like conversation. We are going to give you the last word here. We try to keep it under an hour. This has been very helpful information. </p> <p>Bill, this is great. He came over to my house so we could hang out and do this. One day, he’ll have a camera on his computer.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>I just wanted to come over and check out your house.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Do you like it so far?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>It’s great.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>So Bill, what do you want to leave people with? What’s a challenge or a tip or a thought you want to leave people with as we are ending this really good interview?</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>Always remember the work you’re doing is critically important. On the days when it feels like things are piling up and you feel varied, you are making a difference. I get to jump out of bed every morning and think, Wow, what can happen that will help the community be a better place to live? That’s incredibly motivating. Don’t lose sight of it. That’s what we’re here for. Yeah, it’s about fundraising, it’s about giving grants, but it’s really not. What we’re here for is to improve our communities and give people a sense that their money is going to help their fellow man and help their community. The vast majority don’t give money to foundations for tax purposes and things like that. It’s about philanthropy. We’re helping people feel good, and we should feel good about that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>Most people don’t give money because of donations. It’s because they want to make a difference.</p> <p><strong>Bill:</strong>It’s not for taxes. It’s because it makes them feel good. They do it with their heart.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>I see you smiling, Russell. Thank you again for being here, my friend.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>Always a pleasure. If you don’t tell people what difference their dollars are making, they will put them somewhere else. You stay in touch no matter what the results is. Bill, thanks a million. Hugh, thanks for making it through a broadcast without the magic phrase.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Cracking the Focus Code with James Burgess</title>
      <description>Cracking the Focus Code to Prevent Chaos
James is Author, Speaker, Business Planning Strategist and Business Management Consultant, providing real and permanent solutions to business planning challenges through programs creating radical focus and accountability
 
Transcript of the Interview with James Burgess
Hugh Ballou: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell David Dennis. Russell, how are you today?
Russell Dennis:Greetings and salutations. It’s a beautiful day here out in the mountain west.
Hugh: And in Virginia, it’s lovely. Our guest is from the Toronto, Canada area. Lovely place. I just love Toronto. It’s like a clean New York City. It’s got all of the great stuff, and it’s clean. It’s got great people there. I love going north of the border. Russell, why don’t you tell people who our guest is and what his sweet spot is? He is going to introduce himself.
Russell: Greetings. Today, we have a real treat. We have imported some brilliance from our neighbors to the north up in Canada. We have James Burgess, founder of Focus 31. He is a master business strategist who works with small companies, from start-ups to under $25 million in revenue, who tries to help them get out of their own way by focusing on the right things, creating the right systems. He has done all sorts of work with both businesses, profit-making businesses, not-for-profit entities and is well known throughout the Canada. Many associations he has made presentations to. James, welcome. Why don’t you tell our friends on Facebook a little bit about yourself?
James: Thank you, gentlemen. It is absolutely delightful to be with you this afternoon or this morning, depending on how far west your audience reaches. I would like to start before I introduce myself to dispel rumors that Canadians all live in igloos. It is equally gorgeous without the thin air that Denver has. It is about 77 degrees, clear, blue skies, and we are headed probably for about 82 by the weekend. Yes, I live in a house as you can see by the walls behind me. I say that all in fun. But every time I get to educate on what Canada is all about, I take the opportunity.
It’s a pleasure to meet all of your listeners, virtually of course. My name is James Burgess. I am a speaker. I am the author of the international best-selling book Chaos: How Business Leaders Can Master the Power of Focus. I’ll give everyone an opportunity to get a free copy of this book at the end of the podcast, so stay on. I am the founder of Focus 31, a business that sells a service that no business owner wants, and yet we do it extremely successfully. Every business owner I sit down with or passes the table where my book is sitting says, “Yep, this is me. My business is in chaos, and I need focus.” Whenever they say “focus,” I know what they also need to be saying is I need accountability. That is entirely what Focus 31 does. I act, or my team acts as virtual CEOs for small businesses, as you indicated, from start-up to up to $25 million in revenue. In the past, we have worked often with not-for-profits to get them understanding just what it is they want to do, where they want to get to, how they are going to get there, and hold their feet to the fire, not in Tony Robbins’ way, but holding their feet to the fire to ensure they in fact act and implement their game plan that will get them to that new platform of success.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2018 05:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:subtitle></itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Cracking the Focus Code to Prevent Chaos
James is Author, Speaker, Business Planning Strategist and Business Management Consultant, providing real and permanent solutions to business planning challenges through programs creating radical focus and accountability
 
Transcript of the Interview with James Burgess
Hugh Ballou: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell David Dennis. Russell, how are you today?
Russell Dennis:Greetings and salutations. It’s a beautiful day here out in the mountain west.
Hugh: And in Virginia, it’s lovely. Our guest is from the Toronto, Canada area. Lovely place. I just love Toronto. It’s like a clean New York City. It’s got all of the great stuff, and it’s clean. It’s got great people there. I love going north of the border. Russell, why don’t you tell people who our guest is and what his sweet spot is? He is going to introduce himself.
Russell: Greetings. Today, we have a real treat. We have imported some brilliance from our neighbors to the north up in Canada. We have James Burgess, founder of Focus 31. He is a master business strategist who works with small companies, from start-ups to under $25 million in revenue, who tries to help them get out of their own way by focusing on the right things, creating the right systems. He has done all sorts of work with both businesses, profit-making businesses, not-for-profit entities and is well known throughout the Canada. Many associations he has made presentations to. James, welcome. Why don’t you tell our friends on Facebook a little bit about yourself?
James: Thank you, gentlemen. It is absolutely delightful to be with you this afternoon or this morning, depending on how far west your audience reaches. I would like to start before I introduce myself to dispel rumors that Canadians all live in igloos. It is equally gorgeous without the thin air that Denver has. It is about 77 degrees, clear, blue skies, and we are headed probably for about 82 by the weekend. Yes, I live in a house as you can see by the walls behind me. I say that all in fun. But every time I get to educate on what Canada is all about, I take the opportunity.
It’s a pleasure to meet all of your listeners, virtually of course. My name is James Burgess. I am a speaker. I am the author of the international best-selling book Chaos: How Business Leaders Can Master the Power of Focus. I’ll give everyone an opportunity to get a free copy of this book at the end of the podcast, so stay on. I am the founder of Focus 31, a business that sells a service that no business owner wants, and yet we do it extremely successfully. Every business owner I sit down with or passes the table where my book is sitting says, “Yep, this is me. My business is in chaos, and I need focus.” Whenever they say “focus,” I know what they also need to be saying is I need accountability. That is entirely what Focus 31 does. I act, or my team acts as virtual CEOs for small businesses, as you indicated, from start-up to up to $25 million in revenue. In the past, we have worked often with not-for-profits to get them understanding just what it is they want to do, where they want to get to, how they are going to get there, and hold their feet to the fire, not in Tony Robbins’ way, but holding their feet to the fire to ensure they in fact act and implement their game plan that will get them to that new platform of success.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Cracking the Focus Code to Prevent Chaos</strong></h1><p><strong>James is Author,</strong> Speaker, Business Planning Strategist and Business Management Consultant, providing real and permanent solutions to business planning challenges through programs creating radical focus and accountability</p><p> </p><p><strong>Transcript of the Interview with James Burgess</strong></p><p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell David Dennis. Russell, how are you today?</p><p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong>Greetings and salutations. It’s a beautiful day here out in the mountain west.</p><p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And in Virginia, it’s lovely. Our guest is from the Toronto, Canada area. Lovely place. I just love Toronto. It’s like a clean New York City. It’s got all of the great stuff, and it’s clean. It’s got great people there. I love going north of the border. Russell, why don’t you tell people who our guest is and what his sweet spot is? He is going to introduce himself.</p><p><strong>Russell:</strong> Greetings. Today, we have a real treat. We have imported some brilliance from our neighbors to the north up in Canada. We have James Burgess, founder of Focus 31. He is a master business strategist who works with small companies, from start-ups to under $25 million in revenue, who tries to help them get out of their own way by focusing on the right things, creating the right systems. He has done all sorts of work with both businesses, profit-making businesses, not-for-profit entities and is well known throughout the Canada. Many associations he has made presentations to. James, welcome. Why don’t you tell our friends on Facebook a little bit about yourself?</p><p><strong>James:</strong> Thank you, gentlemen. It is absolutely delightful to be with you this afternoon or this morning, depending on how far west your audience reaches. I would like to start before I introduce myself to dispel rumors that Canadians all live in igloos. It is equally gorgeous without the thin air that Denver has. It is about 77 degrees, clear, blue skies, and we are headed probably for about 82 by the weekend. Yes, I live in a house as you can see by the walls behind me. I say that all in fun. But every time I get to educate on what Canada is all about, I take the opportunity.</p><p>It’s a pleasure to meet all of your listeners, virtually of course. My name is James Burgess. I am a speaker. I am the author of the international best-selling book <em>Chaos: How Business Leaders Can Master the Power of Focus.</em> I’ll give everyone an opportunity to get a free copy of this book at the end of the podcast, so stay on. I am the founder of Focus 31, a business that sells a service that no business owner wants, and yet we do it extremely successfully. Every business owner I sit down with or passes the table where my book is sitting says, “Yep, this is me. My business is in chaos, and I need focus.” Whenever they say “focus,” I know what they also need to be saying is I need accountability. That is entirely what Focus 31 does. I act, or my team acts as virtual CEOs for small businesses, as you indicated, from start-up to up to $25 million in revenue. In the past, we have worked often with not-for-profits to get them understanding just what it is they want to do, where they want to get to, how they are going to get there, and hold their feet to the fire, not in Tony Robbins’ way, but holding their feet to the fire to ensure they in fact act and implement their game plan that will get them to that new platform of success.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Joe Homs on Collaboration and Authenticity </title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/collaboration-and-authenticity</link>
      <description>Collaboration and Authenticity in Nonprofit t Leadership
 Transcript of the Interview with Joe Homs
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings. Welcome to this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. This guest today is a connection through the co-host, Russell David Dennis. And Russell, you met this guy a few years ago, right?
 Russell Dennis: A few years ago, yes. They were doing an interesting project that helped you expand your mind. Since that time, he has gone light years ahead of that. Don’t let that youthful appearance that you’re about to see fool you. This man is loaded. He’s got lots of learning, brings lots of experience to the table. He’s doing things to help people be more authentic, and he is all about collaboration. That’s our language. I’ve got a bio here that’s just to brag him up, but I’ll let him tell you about himself. Go for it, young Joe Homes.
 Joe Homes:  All right. So hi, everybody. My name is Joe. Last name is Homes. And, I’m now a partner at a company called Your Charisma Coach. And we teach people how to charismatically influence people to just kind of be a force for good in the world, to really connect and to share your own humanity with someone else and really to just again be a force for good in the world. We teach people through seminars, products, things like that.
 For myself, I came up a backwards way in industry, in jobs or whatever. My first job was at a venture capital firm, which most people don’t start out with; they usually are successful entrepreneurs or something like that, and then they take all their money and invest there. I started there and was just the jack of all trades and worked my way up. I eventually became the entrepreneur in residence role. I got exposed to a lot of different companies, a lot of different industries, a lot of different things. Then I went to college, so I started doing that job when I was like 17. It was ridiculous. Then went to college, finished out that fund, and became a management consultant. Traveled around the world, did all kinds of stuff there. My job essentially ever since has been going into organizations, and make people act quickly, get in contact with them, know them, sometimes better than they know themselves, and help them fix problems and collaborate and do that kind of thing.
 I met some friends a few years ago, and we were at a seminar together. All of us are doing our own different things. These other two gentlemen are very successful in their own right. We all decided to come together and create something amazing. I just joined this company as a new partner. We are just so happy to basically connect the world because we see, at least I see the world going in a couple of different ways. One is where technology, software is eating the world. That was my old world. I have a degree in computer science. Software is doing amazing, cool technological things.
 The other way that the world I see is going is we are in a connection economy. We are in that place where you reach out on Facebook: Who is the best plumber in my neighborhood? You reach out to a connection that you met years ago, like I reached out to you Russell because I saw something go by on LinkedIn. I haven’t spoken to him in a while; let me see how I can connect. I ended up being here on your podcast. This is great, of course, but it’s just a wonderful thing where you can just go up and connect with people.
 We saw those two things happening, where technology and psychology are diverging. We wanted to bring them back together and give people a chance to connect with their fellow human beings and show people how to do that. Charisma is a skill. It’s something you can learn. It’s something you can always get better at. It’s an interesting thing. I hope that suffices to say who I am and what I do.
 Russell: It does to a degree, but man, there is so much more there that is phenomenal. You talk about the word “charisma.” A lot of people think that charisma, they look at a figure that is out there, that everybody knows, somebody like a Les Brown or a Dave Austin or a Dan Car? That is full of energy, high profile, extroverted, but that’s not who everybody is. When it comes to nonprofits or for-purpose businesses, that is what they really are, relationships are everything. I think we went through a period in our society of extreme narcissism, and now people are starting to understand that no matter what you do, relationships are at the center of that. A lot of people probably feel like they’re in the dark. You either have all of this juice and charisma. You’re either open or you’re not. That is not necessarily the case because everybody’s a little bit different.
 My first question is: Is there a natural tendency for people to step away from their authentic selves in order to try to make an impression on others?
 Joe: Absolutely. And you’re correct that not everybody is Oprah. I would posit that you don’t need to be. We already have Oprah. She is great at being Oprah. I personally am not Oprah. I don’t want to be. My business partner is completely different from me. Russ, you’re different. Hugh, you’re different. We are all different. That’s what makes us that much more valuable. There is definitely a natural tendency for people to step away from their own greatness. They look at those very charismatic people who are out there showing the world who they really are. The natural tendency for people to step away sadly happens to most of us in the Western world for various reasons, social circles telling us we’re not good enough, the media giving us unrealistic expectations of who we should be or what life should be like. You’ve got to realize that most people are afraid to express who they are. That natural tendency is definitely there, but I look at people who eventually get to a point in their lives. It’s usually someone who is a little older, and they realize basically no one else cares, so why should they? You look at someone who is old enough, experienced enough, and they just don’t care anymore. They’re truly who they are. They’re themselves. They just go, “You know what? I’m just gonna be me.” Those people are the most interesting people to meet, to talk to, to work with because they’re just being themselves. I’d say that yes, there is a natural tendency to step away from being their authentic selves, mostly because there is fear there. If there is, it’s hard for you to be silent with another person, if it’s hard for you to go out there and express yourself, if you’re constantly having to say, “I’m going to fake it until I make it,” an authentic person doesn’t have to fake it. They’re going to say, “This is me.” Look to reducing that fear for yourself to help yourself there.
 Russell: I prefer “Act as if,” to “Fake it ‘til you make it” because you’re not putting up a façade or trying to be something you’re not. I think that throws people out of their greatness because really the further we move away from our authentic selves, the less greatness we have. You work with business leaders from Fortune 100 companies. You work with nonprofit leaders. You work with government entities, a little bit of everybody. People interact. It’s all about relationships. How might the idea that people think they have to put up a certain impression, how could that hamper them in their role as a nonprofit leader or business leader or government leader?
 Joe: The important word there is “leader.” In business, in life, in government, in for-purpose businesses or nonprofits, however you want to call it, you’re there to lead for a change. If you’re going to step away from your greatness, that is going to hamper your ability to actually lead. An invisible magnet sit sin between people. It’s called trust. We have huge sections of our brain that are dedicated, hard-wired to figure out congruency, trusting people. As human beings, we have to evolve over many thousands of years to learn: Is this person taking advantage? Is this person contributing to the group? We’re very good at sensing any incongruence. When you have an incongruence, you don’t trust that person. If you don’t trust that person- Think about it. If you didn’t trust someone, could you really be influenced by them? If someone is holding a gun to your head, you can’t really trust them. They might influence you in that moment to get what they want done, right? But if the external threat is removed, you don’t trust that person. You can’t rely on their word. You can’t rely on them to say what they’re going to do. If I say, “I’m going to take this left turn, and I go right,” that erodes some trust. Sure, there are different things in life where you say you’re going to do one thing and circumstances make you have to do another. That’s fine. Again, if you’re the kind of person who says, “You know what? I promised you this; this happened. Here is how I’m going to make it right,” an apology makes all the difference. We make mistakes. We all screw up somehow in our lives. It’s the way we get back into trusting relationships with the people around us that really matters.
 If you are going to step away from being your authentic self, people will see an incongruence. They may not necessarily know what it is. They may not be able to put their finger on it, but they will say, “I don’t know. I don’t know about that person. I don’t know if I can trust them.” So it will hamper your ability to be a leader in the world, to get the change that you’re looking for in the world. If you’re not going to be your authentic self, whomever that is- There are people out there who are, as far as I would be concerned, super weird. I’m not just gonna connect with that person. But they are totally authentic. And their audience is massive and exploding because the people who love them are there with them. The people who don’t, mostly it’s just like, “I don’t care. I won’t pay attention.” Being authentic creates trust. It creates relationship. If you step away from that, you’re only hurting yourself and your cause.
 Russell: I think one of the important qualities that leaders in nonprofits recognize is this need to influence people. You have to influence people to serve on your board. You have to influence people to give to your cause. You have to influence people to use your services. Probably a lot like other businesses, this notion of influence makes people very uncomfortable. One of the troubles that I have seen leaders have in all types of organizations is this need to be a Superman or a Superwoman, where the buck stops here and they get it all done. How much of that have you run into? What are some of the problems you’ve seen that people have created for themselves as far as being able to build good collaborative connections that serve both parties?
 Joe: This is a multi-part question. In terms of people being a little bit worried about influencing and leadership, the right kind of leadership that you want is the kind where you go first, where you’re the one out ahead, forging the path, doing the thing that you, creating the world that you want to see. If you’re doing that the right way, people will follow you. The very definition of being a leader. If you are having to convince someone and cajole someone and force someone into a position, you’re not really leading. You’re forcing. And the idea of force versus influence is an important distinction. I could force lots of things to happen in my company, in my relationships, in my life. But force requires constant attention. It requires you to always be there forcing the issue. Eventually, force tends to backfire. The idea of physics: If you are pushing on something, whatever force you have, an action has an equal and opposite reaction. You want to be leading someone. You want to be pulling them along rather than pushing them along. That’s first. That’s what true influence and authenticity is about. You’re saying, “Look, this is the world that I’m creating. Do you want to help me create it? Let’s go! However you want to join is going to be up to you, of course.”
 The second part of: How do people go wrong? How do they get trapped in this? They will have several complexes. One is that savior complex of, “I’m the one who has to do this.” They feel that if they are not the one to do it, they somehow won’t get credit. They won’t feel good at the end of the day. But you look at massive organizations that tends to have to be a way—human beings, we set this up—is what business doesn’t have one or two leaders at the top? Do they get all the work done in these massive organizations? Absolutely not. What they’ve done and their real contribution is systems, to delegate, to make this kind of thing happen.
 Stories that I hear where people do well by themselves in this is companies like Toyota. Massive corporations. They didn’t use to be as massive as they are now ,but still pretty big. They’re making cars for the American market. Long story short, any worker at Toyota could just stop the line. They had a little pull chain. You pull it like this, and this entire lane of cars, hundreds of cars in a row on the assembly line, just stops. Everyone rushes over and realizes there is a problem here that they have to fix. We have to fix it for good, not just fix it today. If someone collapses, that’s obviously not good. But that is a system you have to put in place. Why did that person collapse? The idea of the five Why’s comes out there. You’re asking Why? five times in a row. You get to the root cause of the issue there. You can read about that kind of stuff.
 The other stories I remember of this guy I know is named Derek Sivers. He had a company called CD Baby for a long time. He sold it in an interesting way. He created a nonprofit that pays him while he is living. When he is gone, it is going to go toward music education. Very interesting  guy. If you ever need to look him up, I believe it’s Sivers.org. Really cool guy. What he did when he realized he was the bottleneck of his company is he did the same thing. He would get a question from one of his employees. He would stop and say we would create a system that solves this problem for the company. I never want to have to deal with this again. For the first few weeks, it was hell. I don’t want to have to do this. He took the initiative. He led, and then he showed his team, “This is the way that I think. This is where the idea of culture comes in. Let me show you how I think about this kind of thing. Then you guys get to go and do this.” Eventually he said, “You guys come up with your own systems and your own things.” Eventually, he was able to exit the company because he had created this massive set of systems that let the company run and become its own organization and make its own way.
 Russell: And that is the work that SynerVision does. We teach people-
 Joe: Absolutely.
 Russell: How to implement systems that serve them and move them forward. Through creation of systems, co-creation of systems, everything comes together. In order to make an impression on people, good leaders need charisma. We talked about charisma. Marcus on Facebook asks, “What is your favorite book on charisma?”
 Joe: Ooh. Marcus, it’s funny, is one of my partners. He is trolling me a bit. Let’s see.
 Russell: He wants to make sure you are not sleeping in the board meeting.
 Joe: One of my favorite books on charisma is a book. I’m going to have to look up the name here. Give me a second. One of my favorite books is, there is a book called The Way of the Superior Man. I like this book because it’s got a few really good insights in it. For me, I read this book about once a year just because I find it so interesting. Don’t let the title scare you away if you’re a woman. In fact, if you’re a woman, you should read this because it’ll help you understand the men in your life to a greater extent than I think a lot of self-help and development stuff might show you otherwise.
 We talked earlier about being authentic is one of the best ways of being charismatic. Without that authenticity, people aren’t going to trust you. They’re going to wonder are you for real? This book at least for me broke down what it’s like to be a man in modern society, what you need to know, and helped me figure out. I remember there is a chapter in the book that says, Pretend your father is gone, that he’s dead, that he has no more influence on you. What are you going to do now? I had to sit with that one for a while because my dad is one of my heroes. He is an important figure in my life. We also go about life in different ways. When I read that chapter, I remember going like, “You know, I’m going to choose this path for my life rather than another one.” It’s an important book, I think, that people may not consider to be a leadership and influence book, but it helps you to discover yourself a bit more, especially as a man, but also again as a woman to understand yourself, too. We also have masculine and feminine parts of ourselves. Identities that we play into. Really good book. I would recommend that one to people.
 Hugh: Can I punctuate that, Russ? Joe, what generation are you in? Russell and I, we’re both boomers, aren’t we?
 Russell: Yep. We are crusty. We have been around for a long time. I plan to be around for a lot longer.
 Hugh: Crusty. So which generation are you in, Joe?
 Joe: I believe it’s X. And maybe on the cusp of millennial.
 Hugh: Russell and I are champions of transformational leadership. You’re anchored in your authenticity. You model, you practice what you preach. You model what you want to see. As a musical conductor, that comes back to me instantly. Your culture is what they see in you. Authenticity is a real key. When you talk about millennials, that is a key factor. It’s a key factor, I think, more than any other generation. They don’t want to put up with the BS they have seen us boomers create. We are on our way out of some corporate jobs and church jobs and nonprofit jobs. They come in with a whole different sense. There is a similar set of values. When you’re looking at this community of collaborative thinking, how does this authenticity-? That is a really interesting book. I am hearing you talk about reading it again. I want to probe that authenticity as far as generations, how does that affect collaborations? As you read the book, tell me if you see different things every time you look at it.
 Joe: I’ll answer the last question first. I see different things out of it every time I read it because I am a different person every time I read it. That is not the only book I read. My viewpoints change. My life changes. My circumstances change. I had a son a few years ago. When I- before having him and after having him, my life drastically changed in terms of the things I was doing, the businesses I had, and all kinds of stuff. But some of my risk tolerances changed for instance, like I used to go skydiving and motorcycle riding. You name an extreme or dangerous sport. I was there. Kite surfing. You name it. After I had my son, I said, “You know what? I’m going to hold off on that for a while.” I know there are people who would agree with that. I know there are people who would disagree. A bunch of the people I used to do things with were like, “What? Just because you have a kid, that doesn’t change.” But honestly it changed for me. What’s most important to me is going to be less important perhaps to someone else. To me, some of my most important values are family and freedom. I like to spend time with my family. I like to be the man around the house that’s fixing my house. I fix stuff around here all the time. My life changed, and so in reading that book again, I got the one chapter I talked about, imagine your father is dead, I imagined myself as being dead and what I would want my son to know. I wrote some stuff down in a letter. It’s in a fireproof safe or whatever. If I was ever gone prematurely, my son could get hopefully some of my wisdom passed along to him in some way. The book doesn’t change, but I change enough that I notice different things in the book. It makes all the difference. That’s why I read it about once a year.
 In terms of your other question, authenticity between generations, I don’t think people are less authentic or more authentic between these generations. I think that technology has made certain things a bit more magnified than they were in the past. You look at stuff like: We’re on Facebook live right now. Potentially thousands of people could be seeing this at the moment, whereas right now we are talking as this is a personal conversation between us three. These kinds of things have changed the social dynamics of where we’re at generationally but also just as human beings. Normally, this would just be between us, and we’d get a good impression of each other. Maybe we’d learn some things, and we’d go off to our separate activities. Now this is recorded. People can watch this over and over. Hundreds of people are watching this outside of just us three. We have a different take. Human beings, when we know we are being recorded, when we know someone else can listen to this later, we edit our speech. We do these things commonly.
 I have gotten to the point in my life where it’s like this is me. This is who I am. I’m going to express myself in the best way that I know how. Like I said, I’m not Oprah, nor do I want to be. I’m Joe. Nice to meet you. If one of my business partners Marcus was on here, he’d be joking with you guys a bit more. He’s the more funny guy of our little group, and we love him for it. Marcus exudes this charisma in his own special way. Another partner of mine, Johnny, he’s the hard-charging, intense guy that if you ever want something done, ask Johnny because he will just get it done until it’s done. I am more the reserved type, but it works for all of us.
 If there is much of a generational gap, it’s just because people have different values. They have different ideas of what they think life should be like, how they should conduct themselves. If you just look at the other person and look at what they care about the most, what they value, you’ll find you have a lot more in connection than you think. You guys have probably seen the movie The Breakfast Club for instance. There is the stoner kid. There is the outcast. There is the jock. There is the whatever. Ostensibly, we all went through that kind of high school experience. Many of these groups don’t really come together. All of these kids had detention on the weekend. It sucks. They’re there, but they’re all different. What they come to realize of course is that they’re all very similar. They all have the same struggles in life. They all have hard things going on. They all realize they can support each other. It’s a great movie, a great metaphor for how I think different social groups and generations can come together and realize we are all human beings. We are all here to live our lives. We are all here to connect with people. We are all here to collaborate, communicate, do all those good things. When you realize that powerful things can happen.
 Russell: These are the types of tools I use working with people. These are the tools we use with SynerVision: try to look at how all these different pieces and parts put together. The strength comes in the variety and diversity across different areas of knowledge, different skills, different personalities. The more you have, to find that common ground is phenomenal. This is what collaboration is about. I think a lot of people are afraid to look at collaborating because they feel that there is a piece of something that they’re going to lose out on if they collaborate with other people. It’s a scarcity mindset. Have you found that in business in general? I know we find it in nonprofits. What are some of the things you do to help people get comfortable with that and back up and understand how the differences that people have aren’t as scary as they think they are?
 Joe: Yeah. You’re totally right. The differences that people have are actually their strengths. An example I use when I talk about collaboration is when I was running a team in Atlanta, great city if you’re ever there or want to go there, it’s awesome—I was working for this really large corporation. Being a management consultant, I am staying in a hotel all week and living out of a suitcase. The hotel gives these little soaps and shampoos. I don’t have a lot of hair. It’s not long. I only need very little.
 Russell: It could be worse.
 Joe: It could be worse, right? But hey, I don’t need a lot of shampoo. I definitely don’t need all the lotion they give you. It’s hot and humid down there. I’m good. I would often just look at these and leave them in the room or throw them away. One day, I went, “There’s got to be something I can do with these.” I set up a box. I had about 40 employees working for me at the time. I set up this box in our team room. 40 people in their hotel rooms at the end of the week would throw their extra shampoos and conditioners and the hotel stuff that the hotel was going to throw away anyway because they can’t really use this stuff. They put this all in a box. I went and took this box once it was full, it was just 100 pounds of stuff, I took it down to a local shelter and said, “Hey, this is for you guys.” They’re like, “Whoa, what’s this?” They got very excited because people need this hygiene stuff. “It’s here for you. Take it.”
 That could have been the end of it. But I decided to- At Your Charisma Coach, we say, “Find your edge.” I went, “You know, this isn’t enough. I gotta go one step further.” What I did was I said, “I am going to come next time with another box of this. Would you mind when I do this if I called up a news producer here in Atlanta, and we’ll do a little news segment on your work here? I don’t want this to be about me. I want this to be about you. But that will use what I’m doing as the in because it’s news-worthy to do this.” They said, “Yeah, absolutely.” In the next month or so, I got enough of these bottles again and called up a news producer and said, “I am going to go down to this thing. I am donating 100 pounds of shampoo, conditioner, all that stuff. I think it would be interesting if you talked to these people, interviewed them, talked about why this was important to them, how it is going to help, and everything else.” The news producer said, “Absolutely, this is great. I’ll meet you down there.”
 I met them down there, and I had the nonprofit do a quick interview about why this helps, what we were doing. I got on screen for a few minutes, not even a few minutes, like 30 seconds, and said, “Hi, I am a local guy doing this. I think it’s important to support our local communities.” That kind of stuff. Through that news story, a ton of the hotels around have consultants there. They all started their own programs to be able to do this. It got to the point where this particular organization couldn’t handle any more of the donations, so they started sending them out to other organizations in the city. The word got back to my corporate headquarters. They started doing this in every other city that they were in. This consulting company was all around the world. Around the world, people unlocked this potential.
 What’s the key takeaway there? I looked at this as abundant thinking. I have this resource. I’m not using it. Maybe someone else can. The news media needs a story for the day. Great. I helped them create a story. That story helped influence a ton of people to say, “I could do that, too,” and they started doing that. Everyone in the community got to raise up. I couldn’t have done that on my own. I couldn’t be buying thousands of dollars of shampoo and donating it. Sure, I could do that. That would be where it stops. Instead of forcing myself to do that or forcing my employees to do that, I said, “Guys, I’m going to do this first If you want to join me, great. Then I will have other people get involved with their unique skills, gifts, abilities, and talents. We are all going to collaborate together.”
 When I look at companies and they say, “I don’t know how to communicate or collaborate. They’ll take my clients or my customers away,” I’d say, “Look to find someone who you can partner with. Look for someone to collaborate with who can do something you can’t.” You guys together, one’s chocolate, one’s peanut butter, together, you’re even better. Why not look at life that way where it’s a positive sum game? The more that you put in and collaborate with people, the more you will get out than you would individually.
 Russell: Abundant thinking. That sounds like a quality that leaders should have, especially nonprofit leaders. How do you help them tap into the notion of abundant thinking? Put that into practice.
 Joe: Oh boy. That would take perhaps a little while longer than we have here, but I’ll give the short answer. When you are collaborating with people, one of the best ways to do that is to listen to them, to find out what they actually need and want. When I want to collaborate more with people, individuals or businesses, for instance, a friend of mine was looking for a job. She has a decent one already. She just didn’t like where she’s at. She feels she is stagnating there; she wants to grow. I took it upon myself without her asking- A couple friends of mine are looking to hire in the same kind of role she is in. I sent them a message that said, “Hey, you need to reach out to this person because this person is great. They can do really good work. They are kind of looking for a move, but they don’t know where to go yet. Can you reach out to them for 10 minutes and talk to them?” Fast forward a week later. I get this call, like, “I just got this offer from apparently a friend of yours? What did you do?” We say this at Your Charisma Coach as well. We try to put rabbits in hats. The other phrase is we put treasure in a chest. She didn’t ask me to do this. I didn’t have to do this. I look for opportunities to say, “How can I serve this person? How can I make it so that they’ll get to shine in their own lives?” In a five-minute, ten-minute call from me to a couple of friends of mine, I got her a great job. She loves where she’s at. My friends as well who had the company are ecstatic because they have someone who wasn’t really even on the market. They didn’t even know they were looking for her. They got a great fit. That was my gift essentially to all of them. I looked at it as like, Could I have gotten a fee for doing that? I recruited her. Sure. But the best way to collaborate with people is that you just give to them. You don’t have a need to collaborate with them.
 I don’t really want to collaborate with people. I’m not going to say, “Will you please collaborate with me?” It’s more like I am out there doing cool stuff in the world. I want to make it so people are knocking down my door to collaborate with me. Do something interesting.
 Going back, be authentic. Be the organization, the person that you are in life, in the world, and people then kind of show up. At Your Charisma Coach, we have people emailing us, “How can I work for you? How can we intern for you? I will do unpaid work. I don’t care what it is. I just want to be around you and absorb whatever it is that you have and maybe some of it will rub off on me.” We don’t actually go out and look for most of these things. People show up because we are being who we are. That is so interesting to people. It’s so, for lack of a better word, charismatic to people that they will want to collaborate with you. If you are having trouble collaborating with someone, look to yourself, be someone who you would want to collaborate with, and you’ll find people starting to come out of the woodwork. Then all it takes is a dose of creativity.
 The example I gave before is, I had something that was going to waste. I guarantee you there is waste in your organization in some other way that it’s something you’re doing, or something like this, a conversation between high-level business people that would normally just be between them, record it, send it to an audience. Some people will like that. Other people won’t. That’s okay. But you will find people who resonate with those kinds of things you’re doing. They will want to contribute and collaborate. There will always be people who want to compete and tear things down. I don’t really pay attention to them. I look for the people who want to create more in life, to make something better in the world. I go, “You’re doing that. Great.”
 There is a charity in the UK. It’s called The Loneliness Project. We are looking to do some collaborations with them as well. We’re not going to be like, “Please collaborate with us.” We are going, “Hey, we’re helping people be more charismatic. Your message and our message are closely aligned. If you’d like to work with us, great. If you wouldn’t, great. We will still support you anyway. We hope to send some people and some attention your way.” We’re there to give. We’re there to give all the time. We are not looking to force anyone into some interaction with us, but just to have fun.
 Hugh: Joe, speaking of drilling down on nonprofits, charities, for-purpose organizations, there is not really experience and knowledge on collaboration. We’re duplicating efforts with multiple charities in the community. They are competing for donor dollars. What do you think is the bridge to help similar charities that are even local or around the country, what is the barrier that charities, leaders in nonprofits need to consider to break through to- Russell and I see collaboration as opening up a vault to a lot more success. What is the biggest barrier, and what is the antidote to that?
 Joe: The biggest barrier to collaboration? I’d say the biggest barrier to collaboration is value misalignment. If you value one thing and I value another, then it’s gonna be difficult for us to collaborate. I would say don’t partner with those kinds of people. Don’t collaborate with them. You just won’t have a good time. You could make it work. You could force things to happen. But again, that is force versus influence. But if you both want the same thing, if you both have the same kind of mission, then it’s easy for you to say, “You know what? There is more than enough donor dollars to go around.” Believe me, there is. There is so much cash available in the world; it’s just finding it and creating it in some cases that becomes the interesting challenge.
 Hugh: Sometimes the people who have the closest alignment, the most similar values, the most overlapping missions, see each other as competitors. Besides if they are aligned, what are some more barriers to thinking collaboratively from a leadership standpoint?
 Joe:  That scarcity mindset of there is so many donor dollars to go around. That is just a belief. It’s not true. I haven’t seen that to be true in my experience. That is one of the biggest things that stops people from collaborating. They think that they do that. I think also another example is that many people don’t have examples of how to do this. They don’t know. It just doesn’t occur to them that it might be possible to collaborate with another organization that maybe has a very similar mission or a very different one. They just don’t do it. It’s like saying, “Well, I didn’t consider that I could use my car to drive to the store, but I drive to work every day.” It’s the same stuff. You’re just going to a different kind of destination. With organizations, often I tell them, “You can look outside of the nonprofit sphere for people you can connect with and collaborate with if that is where you want to start.”
 One way that is really great is something that I’ve done in the past with nonprofits and with larger corporations. This is a model that comes from a guy named Brendan Brouchard. What he does is similar to my hotel story where if you’re some kind of a business or creator or someone that has a product or service that a nonprofit would be interested in, or if you’re the nonprofit and you’re interested in someone’s services- Let’s say Tony Robbins has some special seminar that you’d love all your people to attend, but Tony Robbins’ stuff is high-end, it’s expensive, so maybe you don’t have the money to pay for that out of donations, or maybe your donors wouldn’t like that. So what can you do? Add a third party. Let’s say the Red Cross. Or scale this up and down to the size of your organization and who you can access. Let’s use some well-known examples. If you’re the Red Cross and you say, “I want to send 10,000 people to a Tony Robbins event,” great. How do we pay for this? How do we get this done? Tony needs to make some money to put this on at the very least. We need to get people excited and invited. But let’s add in a third party. Let’s call up Coca-Cola who really cares about people being able to buy Coca-Cola around the world. They have millions and millions of advertising budget for instance. Bigger corporations like Coca-Cola literally have entire teams whose job it is to help put funds in the right place to nonprofits. If you don’t know that, go research it. It’s pretty interesting. What a nonprofit or company who wants to offer this service can do is go out to the nonprofit or vice versa and say, “Can we use your name?” If Tony Robbins said, “Can I use your name, Red Cross, to go to Coca-Cola and say, ‘I want to put on this cool event.’”
 I did this for a local charity in LA. We created an event where we got a bunch of local businesses around LA to bring a lot of their employees and to donate some money to an event. This event was teaching charisma, soft skills, those kinds of things to the particular people who were 18-25-year-olds. They are called the transition age youth. They have aged out of foster care. They are technically adults. After 18 and up until 25 is this age range. They are in a very vulnerable age when you come from a disadvantaged home, life. These people are looking for jobs. They are looking to get out there in the work force. They are good kids. They want to do things right. What we did is we said, “We are going to bring these kids. They are going to come for free.” These businesses around LA, we said, “Please either sponsor the event, and we will put in a small advertisement in a flyer, or pay for a ticket and have your people come. It’s still useful, great information for your employees, for your leaders to get in on.”
 Fast forward to the event. We had what amounted to a training event. At this training event, everyone got to learn greater skills on how to communicate better, how to collaborate better, how to connect with their fellow human beings. These kids got to learn a ton of stuff they wouldn’t have learned otherwise. These companies got access to young, fresh employees who are great people. They wouldn’t have known about each other otherwise. We put them together in a mentoring relationship during this weekend. The more seasoned employees got to sponsor and mentor a younger kid. Everyone really loved it. It’s now an event that runs every year and has continually grown. We took this spirit of collaboration. We said, “This nonprofit can ask for donors. That’s great. This company can try to advertise to these people. That’s great. I as a businessperson can try and get into these groups and maybe partner with them. That’s great. But all three of us together can do so much more.” Once this started going, they now understand this model, so they have taken it out. I know one of their executives left the organization and is now at another one, doing the same thing in another city. These ideas, these means start to spread out into the world.
 If you are looking to collaborate, look beyond just your local experience. Go out into the world and say, “Who has what I want?” Your problem I guarantee you is someone else’s solution. You’ll be able to find someone who wants to contribute to you in a meaningful way.
 Hugh: Russell, this last seven minutes has been a capsule of possibilities. I don’t know what you’re thinking, but I’m thinking we need to get on the phone with Joe Homes and see if there is a collaboration with SynerVision that we can pop out of a bubble and put some of these things to work.
 Joe: I’ll show you how.
 Hugh: Joe, I have to be the hard nose guy here. We have come up to the end of our interview. We try to keep these under an hour. It is fascinating. We could talk to you all day. Russell, thank you for inviting him here.
 I think we are going to try to get you to write for Nonprofit Performance Magazine. I think there’s a story brewin’. What do you think, Russell?
 Russell: Oh yes. He’s done a lot with that. We talked at some length a little while back when I bounced the idea to him about the podcast. We talked about a number of different projects and the power of collaboration. The time has come for that. It’s really time for all of us to point our thinking in that direction. The business networks I’m in do that. The organizations I’ve been working with do the same thing.
 Hugh: For those listening, go to info@synervisionleadership.org. Send us an email if you are interested in having a conversation. Our new website will be up soon. SynerVisionLeadership.org is up now just as a placeholder. But we have a lot more in our community for community builders.
 Before Russell closes us out, Joe, what would you like to leave our listeners with?
 Joe: Given that we are talking about community and leadership, a lot of leaders and organizations think they have to be really impressive to make an impression out there, to get donor dollars. I would say if you are going down the impression route, you’re going to run into most likely the fact that it’s going to be inauthentic in some way. People are going to lose the congruence that you have. Instead, look to express yourself in the world. Don’t worry about what other people think. Don’t worry about how you’re going to be judged. Just be you. Be that person in the senior living home that is like, “I don’t even care. I am just going to show you what I’ve got. This is me. Take it or leave it.” Think about all the most interesting people you know from celebrities like Oprah to even just the guy next door that you think is fascinating. Every one of them does not care what you think about them. They’re just out there expressing themselves. I would say if you are going to be a leader in your organization, go first. Express yourself. Be who you really are. I know that is the best worst advice ever. Just be yourself, right? The reason people say that is because you are enough. You are everything you need. Express that in the world, and look to be the most relaxed, easy person in any conversation you’re in. You will be more charismatic than you think. If I can leave you guys with that, that is what I would leave you with.
 Russell: Great stuff. It’s been an absolute pleasure to talk with you. I am looking forward to talking with you some more because I have some tools we want to provide to these nonprofit leaders out here. Thank you out there, all of you, who got out of bed this morning with the thought of how you can do something to make other people’s lives better. What and why are you doing your job today? How is none of your business. Trust. Trust and move forward. Pick up the tools, and you’ll have it.
 This is Russell Dennis signing off. Joe Homes, thanking him again. My good-looking colleague, Hugh Ballou. There was a point in time where he was jealous of my naturally curly hair. Once he got over that, he decided he’d like to have me hang out with him and be here with all of you great folks every week. Keep doing what you’re doing. The world is becoming a better place every day, every day that you’re out here, swinging and going out here and doing a service and being you. This is Russ Dennis signing off. We will see you right here next week.
  
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      <pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2018 22:38:49 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7d98dcca-b329-11eb-9f0f-0ff683c13a08/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Joe Homs </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Collaboration and Authenticity in Nonprofit t Leadership
 Transcript of the Interview with Joe Homs
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings. Welcome to this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. This guest today is a connection through the co-host, Russell David Dennis. And Russell, you met this guy a few years ago, right?
 Russell Dennis: A few years ago, yes. They were doing an interesting project that helped you expand your mind. Since that time, he has gone light years ahead of that. Don’t let that youthful appearance that you’re about to see fool you. This man is loaded. He’s got lots of learning, brings lots of experience to the table. He’s doing things to help people be more authentic, and he is all about collaboration. That’s our language. I’ve got a bio here that’s just to brag him up, but I’ll let him tell you about himself. Go for it, young Joe Homes.
 Joe Homes:  All right. So hi, everybody. My name is Joe. Last name is Homes. And, I’m now a partner at a company called Your Charisma Coach. And we teach people how to charismatically influence people to just kind of be a force for good in the world, to really connect and to share your own humanity with someone else and really to just again be a force for good in the world. We teach people through seminars, products, things like that.
 For myself, I came up a backwards way in industry, in jobs or whatever. My first job was at a venture capital firm, which most people don’t start out with; they usually are successful entrepreneurs or something like that, and then they take all their money and invest there. I started there and was just the jack of all trades and worked my way up. I eventually became the entrepreneur in residence role. I got exposed to a lot of different companies, a lot of different industries, a lot of different things. Then I went to college, so I started doing that job when I was like 17. It was ridiculous. Then went to college, finished out that fund, and became a management consultant. Traveled around the world, did all kinds of stuff there. My job essentially ever since has been going into organizations, and make people act quickly, get in contact with them, know them, sometimes better than they know themselves, and help them fix problems and collaborate and do that kind of thing.
 I met some friends a few years ago, and we were at a seminar together. All of us are doing our own different things. These other two gentlemen are very successful in their own right. We all decided to come together and create something amazing. I just joined this company as a new partner. We are just so happy to basically connect the world because we see, at least I see the world going in a couple of different ways. One is where technology, software is eating the world. That was my old world. I have a degree in computer science. Software is doing amazing, cool technological things.
 The other way that the world I see is going is we are in a connection economy. We are in that place where you reach out on Facebook: Who is the best plumber in my neighborhood? You reach out to a connection that you met years ago, like I reached out to you Russell because I saw something go by on LinkedIn. I haven’t spoken to him in a while; let me see how I can connect. I ended up being here on your podcast. This is great, of course, but it’s just a wonderful thing where you can just go up and connect with people.
 We saw those two things happening, where technology and psychology are diverging. We wanted to bring them back together and give people a chance to connect with their fellow human beings and show people how to do that. Charisma is a skill. It’s something you can learn. It’s something you can always get better at. It’s an interesting thing. I hope that suffices to say who I am and what I do.
 Russell: It does to a degree, but man, there is so much more there that is phenomenal. You talk about the word “charisma.” A lot of people think that charisma, they look at a figure that is out there, that everybody knows, somebody like a Les Brown or a Dave Austin or a Dan Car? That is full of energy, high profile, extroverted, but that’s not who everybody is. When it comes to nonprofits or for-purpose businesses, that is what they really are, relationships are everything. I think we went through a period in our society of extreme narcissism, and now people are starting to understand that no matter what you do, relationships are at the center of that. A lot of people probably feel like they’re in the dark. You either have all of this juice and charisma. You’re either open or you’re not. That is not necessarily the case because everybody’s a little bit different.
 My first question is: Is there a natural tendency for people to step away from their authentic selves in order to try to make an impression on others?
 Joe: Absolutely. And you’re correct that not everybody is Oprah. I would posit that you don’t need to be. We already have Oprah. She is great at being Oprah. I personally am not Oprah. I don’t want to be. My business partner is completely different from me. Russ, you’re different. Hugh, you’re different. We are all different. That’s what makes us that much more valuable. There is definitely a natural tendency for people to step away from their own greatness. They look at those very charismatic people who are out there showing the world who they really are. The natural tendency for people to step away sadly happens to most of us in the Western world for various reasons, social circles telling us we’re not good enough, the media giving us unrealistic expectations of who we should be or what life should be like. You’ve got to realize that most people are afraid to express who they are. That natural tendency is definitely there, but I look at people who eventually get to a point in their lives. It’s usually someone who is a little older, and they realize basically no one else cares, so why should they? You look at someone who is old enough, experienced enough, and they just don’t care anymore. They’re truly who they are. They’re themselves. They just go, “You know what? I’m just gonna be me.” Those people are the most interesting people to meet, to talk to, to work with because they’re just being themselves. I’d say that yes, there is a natural tendency to step away from being their authentic selves, mostly because there is fear there. If there is, it’s hard for you to be silent with another person, if it’s hard for you to go out there and express yourself, if you’re constantly having to say, “I’m going to fake it until I make it,” an authentic person doesn’t have to fake it. They’re going to say, “This is me.” Look to reducing that fear for yourself to help yourself there.
 Russell: I prefer “Act as if,” to “Fake it ‘til you make it” because you’re not putting up a façade or trying to be something you’re not. I think that throws people out of their greatness because really the further we move away from our authentic selves, the less greatness we have. You work with business leaders from Fortune 100 companies. You work with nonprofit leaders. You work with government entities, a little bit of everybody. People interact. It’s all about relationships. How might the idea that people think they have to put up a certain impression, how could that hamper them in their role as a nonprofit leader or business leader or government leader?
 Joe: The important word there is “leader.” In business, in life, in government, in for-purpose businesses or nonprofits, however you want to call it, you’re there to lead for a change. If you’re going to step away from your greatness, that is going to hamper your ability to actually lead. An invisible magnet sit sin between people. It’s called trust. We have huge sections of our brain that are dedicated, hard-wired to figure out congruency, trusting people. As human beings, we have to evolve over many thousands of years to learn: Is this person taking advantage? Is this person contributing to the group? We’re very good at sensing any incongruence. When you have an incongruence, you don’t trust that person. If you don’t trust that person- Think about it. If you didn’t trust someone, could you really be influenced by them? If someone is holding a gun to your head, you can’t really trust them. They might influence you in that moment to get what they want done, right? But if the external threat is removed, you don’t trust that person. You can’t rely on their word. You can’t rely on them to say what they’re going to do. If I say, “I’m going to take this left turn, and I go right,” that erodes some trust. Sure, there are different things in life where you say you’re going to do one thing and circumstances make you have to do another. That’s fine. Again, if you’re the kind of person who says, “You know what? I promised you this; this happened. Here is how I’m going to make it right,” an apology makes all the difference. We make mistakes. We all screw up somehow in our lives. It’s the way we get back into trusting relationships with the people around us that really matters.
 If you are going to step away from being your authentic self, people will see an incongruence. They may not necessarily know what it is. They may not be able to put their finger on it, but they will say, “I don’t know. I don’t know about that person. I don’t know if I can trust them.” So it will hamper your ability to be a leader in the world, to get the change that you’re looking for in the world. If you’re not going to be your authentic self, whomever that is- There are people out there who are, as far as I would be concerned, super weird. I’m not just gonna connect with that person. But they are totally authentic. And their audience is massive and exploding because the people who love them are there with them. The people who don’t, mostly it’s just like, “I don’t care. I won’t pay attention.” Being authentic creates trust. It creates relationship. If you step away from that, you’re only hurting yourself and your cause.
 Russell: I think one of the important qualities that leaders in nonprofits recognize is this need to influence people. You have to influence people to serve on your board. You have to influence people to give to your cause. You have to influence people to use your services. Probably a lot like other businesses, this notion of influence makes people very uncomfortable. One of the troubles that I have seen leaders have in all types of organizations is this need to be a Superman or a Superwoman, where the buck stops here and they get it all done. How much of that have you run into? What are some of the problems you’ve seen that people have created for themselves as far as being able to build good collaborative connections that serve both parties?
 Joe: This is a multi-part question. In terms of people being a little bit worried about influencing and leadership, the right kind of leadership that you want is the kind where you go first, where you’re the one out ahead, forging the path, doing the thing that you, creating the world that you want to see. If you’re doing that the right way, people will follow you. The very definition of being a leader. If you are having to convince someone and cajole someone and force someone into a position, you’re not really leading. You’re forcing. And the idea of force versus influence is an important distinction. I could force lots of things to happen in my company, in my relationships, in my life. But force requires constant attention. It requires you to always be there forcing the issue. Eventually, force tends to backfire. The idea of physics: If you are pushing on something, whatever force you have, an action has an equal and opposite reaction. You want to be leading someone. You want to be pulling them along rather than pushing them along. That’s first. That’s what true influence and authenticity is about. You’re saying, “Look, this is the world that I’m creating. Do you want to help me create it? Let’s go! However you want to join is going to be up to you, of course.”
 The second part of: How do people go wrong? How do they get trapped in this? They will have several complexes. One is that savior complex of, “I’m the one who has to do this.” They feel that if they are not the one to do it, they somehow won’t get credit. They won’t feel good at the end of the day. But you look at massive organizations that tends to have to be a way—human beings, we set this up—is what business doesn’t have one or two leaders at the top? Do they get all the work done in these massive organizations? Absolutely not. What they’ve done and their real contribution is systems, to delegate, to make this kind of thing happen.
 Stories that I hear where people do well by themselves in this is companies like Toyota. Massive corporations. They didn’t use to be as massive as they are now ,but still pretty big. They’re making cars for the American market. Long story short, any worker at Toyota could just stop the line. They had a little pull chain. You pull it like this, and this entire lane of cars, hundreds of cars in a row on the assembly line, just stops. Everyone rushes over and realizes there is a problem here that they have to fix. We have to fix it for good, not just fix it today. If someone collapses, that’s obviously not good. But that is a system you have to put in place. Why did that person collapse? The idea of the five Why’s comes out there. You’re asking Why? five times in a row. You get to the root cause of the issue there. You can read about that kind of stuff.
 The other stories I remember of this guy I know is named Derek Sivers. He had a company called CD Baby for a long time. He sold it in an interesting way. He created a nonprofit that pays him while he is living. When he is gone, it is going to go toward music education. Very interesting  guy. If you ever need to look him up, I believe it’s Sivers.org. Really cool guy. What he did when he realized he was the bottleneck of his company is he did the same thing. He would get a question from one of his employees. He would stop and say we would create a system that solves this problem for the company. I never want to have to deal with this again. For the first few weeks, it was hell. I don’t want to have to do this. He took the initiative. He led, and then he showed his team, “This is the way that I think. This is where the idea of culture comes in. Let me show you how I think about this kind of thing. Then you guys get to go and do this.” Eventually he said, “You guys come up with your own systems and your own things.” Eventually, he was able to exit the company because he had created this massive set of systems that let the company run and become its own organization and make its own way.
 Russell: And that is the work that SynerVision does. We teach people-
 Joe: Absolutely.
 Russell: How to implement systems that serve them and move them forward. Through creation of systems, co-creation of systems, everything comes together. In order to make an impression on people, good leaders need charisma. We talked about charisma. Marcus on Facebook asks, “What is your favorite book on charisma?”
 Joe: Ooh. Marcus, it’s funny, is one of my partners. He is trolling me a bit. Let’s see.
 Russell: He wants to make sure you are not sleeping in the board meeting.
 Joe: One of my favorite books on charisma is a book. I’m going to have to look up the name here. Give me a second. One of my favorite books is, there is a book called The Way of the Superior Man. I like this book because it’s got a few really good insights in it. For me, I read this book about once a year just because I find it so interesting. Don’t let the title scare you away if you’re a woman. In fact, if you’re a woman, you should read this because it’ll help you understand the men in your life to a greater extent than I think a lot of self-help and development stuff might show you otherwise.
 We talked earlier about being authentic is one of the best ways of being charismatic. Without that authenticity, people aren’t going to trust you. They’re going to wonder are you for real? This book at least for me broke down what it’s like to be a man in modern society, what you need to know, and helped me figure out. I remember there is a chapter in the book that says, Pretend your father is gone, that he’s dead, that he has no more influence on you. What are you going to do now? I had to sit with that one for a while because my dad is one of my heroes. He is an important figure in my life. We also go about life in different ways. When I read that chapter, I remember going like, “You know, I’m going to choose this path for my life rather than another one.” It’s an important book, I think, that people may not consider to be a leadership and influence book, but it helps you to discover yourself a bit more, especially as a man, but also again as a woman to understand yourself, too. We also have masculine and feminine parts of ourselves. Identities that we play into. Really good book. I would recommend that one to people.
 Hugh: Can I punctuate that, Russ? Joe, what generation are you in? Russell and I, we’re both boomers, aren’t we?
 Russell: Yep. We are crusty. We have been around for a long time. I plan to be around for a lot longer.
 Hugh: Crusty. So which generation are you in, Joe?
 Joe: I believe it’s X. And maybe on the cusp of millennial.
 Hugh: Russell and I are champions of transformational leadership. You’re anchored in your authenticity. You model, you practice what you preach. You model what you want to see. As a musical conductor, that comes back to me instantly. Your culture is what they see in you. Authenticity is a real key. When you talk about millennials, that is a key factor. It’s a key factor, I think, more than any other generation. They don’t want to put up with the BS they have seen us boomers create. We are on our way out of some corporate jobs and church jobs and nonprofit jobs. They come in with a whole different sense. There is a similar set of values. When you’re looking at this community of collaborative thinking, how does this authenticity-? That is a really interesting book. I am hearing you talk about reading it again. I want to probe that authenticity as far as generations, how does that affect collaborations? As you read the book, tell me if you see different things every time you look at it.
 Joe: I’ll answer the last question first. I see different things out of it every time I read it because I am a different person every time I read it. That is not the only book I read. My viewpoints change. My life changes. My circumstances change. I had a son a few years ago. When I- before having him and after having him, my life drastically changed in terms of the things I was doing, the businesses I had, and all kinds of stuff. But some of my risk tolerances changed for instance, like I used to go skydiving and motorcycle riding. You name an extreme or dangerous sport. I was there. Kite surfing. You name it. After I had my son, I said, “You know what? I’m going to hold off on that for a while.” I know there are people who would agree with that. I know there are people who would disagree. A bunch of the people I used to do things with were like, “What? Just because you have a kid, that doesn’t change.” But honestly it changed for me. What’s most important to me is going to be less important perhaps to someone else. To me, some of my most important values are family and freedom. I like to spend time with my family. I like to be the man around the house that’s fixing my house. I fix stuff around here all the time. My life changed, and so in reading that book again, I got the one chapter I talked about, imagine your father is dead, I imagined myself as being dead and what I would want my son to know. I wrote some stuff down in a letter. It’s in a fireproof safe or whatever. If I was ever gone prematurely, my son could get hopefully some of my wisdom passed along to him in some way. The book doesn’t change, but I change enough that I notice different things in the book. It makes all the difference. That’s why I read it about once a year.
 In terms of your other question, authenticity between generations, I don’t think people are less authentic or more authentic between these generations. I think that technology has made certain things a bit more magnified than they were in the past. You look at stuff like: We’re on Facebook live right now. Potentially thousands of people could be seeing this at the moment, whereas right now we are talking as this is a personal conversation between us three. These kinds of things have changed the social dynamics of where we’re at generationally but also just as human beings. Normally, this would just be between us, and we’d get a good impression of each other. Maybe we’d learn some things, and we’d go off to our separate activities. Now this is recorded. People can watch this over and over. Hundreds of people are watching this outside of just us three. We have a different take. Human beings, when we know we are being recorded, when we know someone else can listen to this later, we edit our speech. We do these things commonly.
 I have gotten to the point in my life where it’s like this is me. This is who I am. I’m going to express myself in the best way that I know how. Like I said, I’m not Oprah, nor do I want to be. I’m Joe. Nice to meet you. If one of my business partners Marcus was on here, he’d be joking with you guys a bit more. He’s the more funny guy of our little group, and we love him for it. Marcus exudes this charisma in his own special way. Another partner of mine, Johnny, he’s the hard-charging, intense guy that if you ever want something done, ask Johnny because he will just get it done until it’s done. I am more the reserved type, but it works for all of us.
 If there is much of a generational gap, it’s just because people have different values. They have different ideas of what they think life should be like, how they should conduct themselves. If you just look at the other person and look at what they care about the most, what they value, you’ll find you have a lot more in connection than you think. You guys have probably seen the movie The Breakfast Club for instance. There is the stoner kid. There is the outcast. There is the jock. There is the whatever. Ostensibly, we all went through that kind of high school experience. Many of these groups don’t really come together. All of these kids had detention on the weekend. It sucks. They’re there, but they’re all different. What they come to realize of course is that they’re all very similar. They all have the same struggles in life. They all have hard things going on. They all realize they can support each other. It’s a great movie, a great metaphor for how I think different social groups and generations can come together and realize we are all human beings. We are all here to live our lives. We are all here to connect with people. We are all here to collaborate, communicate, do all those good things. When you realize that powerful things can happen.
 Russell: These are the types of tools I use working with people. These are the tools we use with SynerVision: try to look at how all these different pieces and parts put together. The strength comes in the variety and diversity across different areas of knowledge, different skills, different personalities. The more you have, to find that common ground is phenomenal. This is what collaboration is about. I think a lot of people are afraid to look at collaborating because they feel that there is a piece of something that they’re going to lose out on if they collaborate with other people. It’s a scarcity mindset. Have you found that in business in general? I know we find it in nonprofits. What are some of the things you do to help people get comfortable with that and back up and understand how the differences that people have aren’t as scary as they think they are?
 Joe: Yeah. You’re totally right. The differences that people have are actually their strengths. An example I use when I talk about collaboration is when I was running a team in Atlanta, great city if you’re ever there or want to go there, it’s awesome—I was working for this really large corporation. Being a management consultant, I am staying in a hotel all week and living out of a suitcase. The hotel gives these little soaps and shampoos. I don’t have a lot of hair. It’s not long. I only need very little.
 Russell: It could be worse.
 Joe: It could be worse, right? But hey, I don’t need a lot of shampoo. I definitely don’t need all the lotion they give you. It’s hot and humid down there. I’m good. I would often just look at these and leave them in the room or throw them away. One day, I went, “There’s got to be something I can do with these.” I set up a box. I had about 40 employees working for me at the time. I set up this box in our team room. 40 people in their hotel rooms at the end of the week would throw their extra shampoos and conditioners and the hotel stuff that the hotel was going to throw away anyway because they can’t really use this stuff. They put this all in a box. I went and took this box once it was full, it was just 100 pounds of stuff, I took it down to a local shelter and said, “Hey, this is for you guys.” They’re like, “Whoa, what’s this?” They got very excited because people need this hygiene stuff. “It’s here for you. Take it.”
 That could have been the end of it. But I decided to- At Your Charisma Coach, we say, “Find your edge.” I went, “You know, this isn’t enough. I gotta go one step further.” What I did was I said, “I am going to come next time with another box of this. Would you mind when I do this if I called up a news producer here in Atlanta, and we’ll do a little news segment on your work here? I don’t want this to be about me. I want this to be about you. But that will use what I’m doing as the in because it’s news-worthy to do this.” They said, “Yeah, absolutely.” In the next month or so, I got enough of these bottles again and called up a news producer and said, “I am going to go down to this thing. I am donating 100 pounds of shampoo, conditioner, all that stuff. I think it would be interesting if you talked to these people, interviewed them, talked about why this was important to them, how it is going to help, and everything else.” The news producer said, “Absolutely, this is great. I’ll meet you down there.”
 I met them down there, and I had the nonprofit do a quick interview about why this helps, what we were doing. I got on screen for a few minutes, not even a few minutes, like 30 seconds, and said, “Hi, I am a local guy doing this. I think it’s important to support our local communities.” That kind of stuff. Through that news story, a ton of the hotels around have consultants there. They all started their own programs to be able to do this. It got to the point where this particular organization couldn’t handle any more of the donations, so they started sending them out to other organizations in the city. The word got back to my corporate headquarters. They started doing this in every other city that they were in. This consulting company was all around the world. Around the world, people unlocked this potential.
 What’s the key takeaway there? I looked at this as abundant thinking. I have this resource. I’m not using it. Maybe someone else can. The news media needs a story for the day. Great. I helped them create a story. That story helped influence a ton of people to say, “I could do that, too,” and they started doing that. Everyone in the community got to raise up. I couldn’t have done that on my own. I couldn’t be buying thousands of dollars of shampoo and donating it. Sure, I could do that. That would be where it stops. Instead of forcing myself to do that or forcing my employees to do that, I said, “Guys, I’m going to do this first If you want to join me, great. Then I will have other people get involved with their unique skills, gifts, abilities, and talents. We are all going to collaborate together.”
 When I look at companies and they say, “I don’t know how to communicate or collaborate. They’ll take my clients or my customers away,” I’d say, “Look to find someone who you can partner with. Look for someone to collaborate with who can do something you can’t.” You guys together, one’s chocolate, one’s peanut butter, together, you’re even better. Why not look at life that way where it’s a positive sum game? The more that you put in and collaborate with people, the more you will get out than you would individually.
 Russell: Abundant thinking. That sounds like a quality that leaders should have, especially nonprofit leaders. How do you help them tap into the notion of abundant thinking? Put that into practice.
 Joe: Oh boy. That would take perhaps a little while longer than we have here, but I’ll give the short answer. When you are collaborating with people, one of the best ways to do that is to listen to them, to find out what they actually need and want. When I want to collaborate more with people, individuals or businesses, for instance, a friend of mine was looking for a job. She has a decent one already. She just didn’t like where she’s at. She feels she is stagnating there; she wants to grow. I took it upon myself without her asking- A couple friends of mine are looking to hire in the same kind of role she is in. I sent them a message that said, “Hey, you need to reach out to this person because this person is great. They can do really good work. They are kind of looking for a move, but they don’t know where to go yet. Can you reach out to them for 10 minutes and talk to them?” Fast forward a week later. I get this call, like, “I just got this offer from apparently a friend of yours? What did you do?” We say this at Your Charisma Coach as well. We try to put rabbits in hats. The other phrase is we put treasure in a chest. She didn’t ask me to do this. I didn’t have to do this. I look for opportunities to say, “How can I serve this person? How can I make it so that they’ll get to shine in their own lives?” In a five-minute, ten-minute call from me to a couple of friends of mine, I got her a great job. She loves where she’s at. My friends as well who had the company are ecstatic because they have someone who wasn’t really even on the market. They didn’t even know they were looking for her. They got a great fit. That was my gift essentially to all of them. I looked at it as like, Could I have gotten a fee for doing that? I recruited her. Sure. But the best way to collaborate with people is that you just give to them. You don’t have a need to collaborate with them.
 I don’t really want to collaborate with people. I’m not going to say, “Will you please collaborate with me?” It’s more like I am out there doing cool stuff in the world. I want to make it so people are knocking down my door to collaborate with me. Do something interesting.
 Going back, be authentic. Be the organization, the person that you are in life, in the world, and people then kind of show up. At Your Charisma Coach, we have people emailing us, “How can I work for you? How can we intern for you? I will do unpaid work. I don’t care what it is. I just want to be around you and absorb whatever it is that you have and maybe some of it will rub off on me.” We don’t actually go out and look for most of these things. People show up because we are being who we are. That is so interesting to people. It’s so, for lack of a better word, charismatic to people that they will want to collaborate with you. If you are having trouble collaborating with someone, look to yourself, be someone who you would want to collaborate with, and you’ll find people starting to come out of the woodwork. Then all it takes is a dose of creativity.
 The example I gave before is, I had something that was going to waste. I guarantee you there is waste in your organization in some other way that it’s something you’re doing, or something like this, a conversation between high-level business people that would normally just be between them, record it, send it to an audience. Some people will like that. Other people won’t. That’s okay. But you will find people who resonate with those kinds of things you’re doing. They will want to contribute and collaborate. There will always be people who want to compete and tear things down. I don’t really pay attention to them. I look for the people who want to create more in life, to make something better in the world. I go, “You’re doing that. Great.”
 There is a charity in the UK. It’s called The Loneliness Project. We are looking to do some collaborations with them as well. We’re not going to be like, “Please collaborate with us.” We are going, “Hey, we’re helping people be more charismatic. Your message and our message are closely aligned. If you’d like to work with us, great. If you wouldn’t, great. We will still support you anyway. We hope to send some people and some attention your way.” We’re there to give. We’re there to give all the time. We are not looking to force anyone into some interaction with us, but just to have fun.
 Hugh: Joe, speaking of drilling down on nonprofits, charities, for-purpose organizations, there is not really experience and knowledge on collaboration. We’re duplicating efforts with multiple charities in the community. They are competing for donor dollars. What do you think is the bridge to help similar charities that are even local or around the country, what is the barrier that charities, leaders in nonprofits need to consider to break through to- Russell and I see collaboration as opening up a vault to a lot more success. What is the biggest barrier, and what is the antidote to that?
 Joe: The biggest barrier to collaboration? I’d say the biggest barrier to collaboration is value misalignment. If you value one thing and I value another, then it’s gonna be difficult for us to collaborate. I would say don’t partner with those kinds of people. Don’t collaborate with them. You just won’t have a good time. You could make it work. You could force things to happen. But again, that is force versus influence. But if you both want the same thing, if you both have the same kind of mission, then it’s easy for you to say, “You know what? There is more than enough donor dollars to go around.” Believe me, there is. There is so much cash available in the world; it’s just finding it and creating it in some cases that becomes the interesting challenge.
 Hugh: Sometimes the people who have the closest alignment, the most similar values, the most overlapping missions, see each other as competitors. Besides if they are aligned, what are some more barriers to thinking collaboratively from a leadership standpoint?
 Joe:  That scarcity mindset of there is so many donor dollars to go around. That is just a belief. It’s not true. I haven’t seen that to be true in my experience. That is one of the biggest things that stops people from collaborating. They think that they do that. I think also another example is that many people don’t have examples of how to do this. They don’t know. It just doesn’t occur to them that it might be possible to collaborate with another organization that maybe has a very similar mission or a very different one. They just don’t do it. It’s like saying, “Well, I didn’t consider that I could use my car to drive to the store, but I drive to work every day.” It’s the same stuff. You’re just going to a different kind of destination. With organizations, often I tell them, “You can look outside of the nonprofit sphere for people you can connect with and collaborate with if that is where you want to start.”
 One way that is really great is something that I’ve done in the past with nonprofits and with larger corporations. This is a model that comes from a guy named Brendan Brouchard. What he does is similar to my hotel story where if you’re some kind of a business or creator or someone that has a product or service that a nonprofit would be interested in, or if you’re the nonprofit and you’re interested in someone’s services- Let’s say Tony Robbins has some special seminar that you’d love all your people to attend, but Tony Robbins’ stuff is high-end, it’s expensive, so maybe you don’t have the money to pay for that out of donations, or maybe your donors wouldn’t like that. So what can you do? Add a third party. Let’s say the Red Cross. Or scale this up and down to the size of your organization and who you can access. Let’s use some well-known examples. If you’re the Red Cross and you say, “I want to send 10,000 people to a Tony Robbins event,” great. How do we pay for this? How do we get this done? Tony needs to make some money to put this on at the very least. We need to get people excited and invited. But let’s add in a third party. Let’s call up Coca-Cola who really cares about people being able to buy Coca-Cola around the world. They have millions and millions of advertising budget for instance. Bigger corporations like Coca-Cola literally have entire teams whose job it is to help put funds in the right place to nonprofits. If you don’t know that, go research it. It’s pretty interesting. What a nonprofit or company who wants to offer this service can do is go out to the nonprofit or vice versa and say, “Can we use your name?” If Tony Robbins said, “Can I use your name, Red Cross, to go to Coca-Cola and say, ‘I want to put on this cool event.’”
 I did this for a local charity in LA. We created an event where we got a bunch of local businesses around LA to bring a lot of their employees and to donate some money to an event. This event was teaching charisma, soft skills, those kinds of things to the particular people who were 18-25-year-olds. They are called the transition age youth. They have aged out of foster care. They are technically adults. After 18 and up until 25 is this age range. They are in a very vulnerable age when you come from a disadvantaged home, life. These people are looking for jobs. They are looking to get out there in the work force. They are good kids. They want to do things right. What we did is we said, “We are going to bring these kids. They are going to come for free.” These businesses around LA, we said, “Please either sponsor the event, and we will put in a small advertisement in a flyer, or pay for a ticket and have your people come. It’s still useful, great information for your employees, for your leaders to get in on.”
 Fast forward to the event. We had what amounted to a training event. At this training event, everyone got to learn greater skills on how to communicate better, how to collaborate better, how to connect with their fellow human beings. These kids got to learn a ton of stuff they wouldn’t have learned otherwise. These companies got access to young, fresh employees who are great people. They wouldn’t have known about each other otherwise. We put them together in a mentoring relationship during this weekend. The more seasoned employees got to sponsor and mentor a younger kid. Everyone really loved it. It’s now an event that runs every year and has continually grown. We took this spirit of collaboration. We said, “This nonprofit can ask for donors. That’s great. This company can try to advertise to these people. That’s great. I as a businessperson can try and get into these groups and maybe partner with them. That’s great. But all three of us together can do so much more.” Once this started going, they now understand this model, so they have taken it out. I know one of their executives left the organization and is now at another one, doing the same thing in another city. These ideas, these means start to spread out into the world.
 If you are looking to collaborate, look beyond just your local experience. Go out into the world and say, “Who has what I want?” Your problem I guarantee you is someone else’s solution. You’ll be able to find someone who wants to contribute to you in a meaningful way.
 Hugh: Russell, this last seven minutes has been a capsule of possibilities. I don’t know what you’re thinking, but I’m thinking we need to get on the phone with Joe Homes and see if there is a collaboration with SynerVision that we can pop out of a bubble and put some of these things to work.
 Joe: I’ll show you how.
 Hugh: Joe, I have to be the hard nose guy here. We have come up to the end of our interview. We try to keep these under an hour. It is fascinating. We could talk to you all day. Russell, thank you for inviting him here.
 I think we are going to try to get you to write for Nonprofit Performance Magazine. I think there’s a story brewin’. What do you think, Russell?
 Russell: Oh yes. He’s done a lot with that. We talked at some length a little while back when I bounced the idea to him about the podcast. We talked about a number of different projects and the power of collaboration. The time has come for that. It’s really time for all of us to point our thinking in that direction. The business networks I’m in do that. The organizations I’ve been working with do the same thing.
 Hugh: For those listening, go to info@synervisionleadership.org. Send us an email if you are interested in having a conversation. Our new website will be up soon. SynerVisionLeadership.org is up now just as a placeholder. But we have a lot more in our community for community builders.
 Before Russell closes us out, Joe, what would you like to leave our listeners with?
 Joe: Given that we are talking about community and leadership, a lot of leaders and organizations think they have to be really impressive to make an impression out there, to get donor dollars. I would say if you are going down the impression route, you’re going to run into most likely the fact that it’s going to be inauthentic in some way. People are going to lose the congruence that you have. Instead, look to express yourself in the world. Don’t worry about what other people think. Don’t worry about how you’re going to be judged. Just be you. Be that person in the senior living home that is like, “I don’t even care. I am just going to show you what I’ve got. This is me. Take it or leave it.” Think about all the most interesting people you know from celebrities like Oprah to even just the guy next door that you think is fascinating. Every one of them does not care what you think about them. They’re just out there expressing themselves. I would say if you are going to be a leader in your organization, go first. Express yourself. Be who you really are. I know that is the best worst advice ever. Just be yourself, right? The reason people say that is because you are enough. You are everything you need. Express that in the world, and look to be the most relaxed, easy person in any conversation you’re in. You will be more charismatic than you think. If I can leave you guys with that, that is what I would leave you with.
 Russell: Great stuff. It’s been an absolute pleasure to talk with you. I am looking forward to talking with you some more because I have some tools we want to provide to these nonprofit leaders out here. Thank you out there, all of you, who got out of bed this morning with the thought of how you can do something to make other people’s lives better. What and why are you doing your job today? How is none of your business. Trust. Trust and move forward. Pick up the tools, and you’ll have it.
 This is Russell Dennis signing off. Joe Homes, thanking him again. My good-looking colleague, Hugh Ballou. There was a point in time where he was jealous of my naturally curly hair. Once he got over that, he decided he’d like to have me hang out with him and be here with all of you great folks every week. Keep doing what you’re doing. The world is becoming a better place every day, every day that you’re out here, swinging and going out here and doing a service and being you. This is Russ Dennis signing off. We will see you right here next week.
  
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        <![CDATA[<p>Collaboration and Authenticity in Nonprofit t Leadership</p> <p><strong>Transcript of the Interview with Joe Homs</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings. Welcome to this edition of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> This guest today is a connection through the co-host, Russell David Dennis. And Russell, you met this guy a few years ago, right?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> A few years ago, yes. They were doing an interesting project that helped you expand your mind. Since that time, he has gone light years ahead of that. Don’t let that youthful appearance that you’re about to see fool you. This man is loaded. He’s got lots of learning, brings lots of experience to the table. He’s doing things to help people be more authentic, and he is all about collaboration. That’s our language. I’ve got a bio here that’s just to brag him up, but I’ll let him tell you about himself. Go for it, young Joe Homes.</p> <p><strong>Joe Homes:</strong>  All right. So hi, everybody. My name is Joe. Last name is Homes. And, I’m now a partner at a company called Your Charisma Coach. And we teach people how to charismatically influence people to just kind of be a force for good in the world, to really connect and to share your own humanity with someone else and really to just again be a force for good in the world. We teach people through seminars, products, things like that.</p> <p>For myself, I came up a backwards way in industry, in jobs or whatever. My first job was at a venture capital firm, which most people don’t start out with; they usually are successful entrepreneurs or something like that, and then they take all their money and invest there. I started there and was just the jack of all trades and worked my way up. I eventually became the entrepreneur in residence role. I got exposed to a lot of different companies, a lot of different industries, a lot of different things. Then I went to college, so I started doing that job when I was like 17. It was ridiculous. Then went to college, finished out that fund, and became a management consultant. Traveled around the world, did all kinds of stuff there. My job essentially ever since has been going into organizations, and make people act quickly, get in contact with them, know them, sometimes better than they know themselves, and help them fix problems and collaborate and do that kind of thing.</p> <p>I met some friends a few years ago, and we were at a seminar together. All of us are doing our own different things. These other two gentlemen are very successful in their own right. We all decided to come together and create something amazing. I just joined this company as a new partner. We are just so happy to basically connect the world because we see, at least I see the world going in a couple of different ways. One is where technology, software is eating the world. That was my old world. I have a degree in computer science. Software is doing amazing, cool technological things.</p> <p>The other way that the world I see is going is we are in a connection economy. We are in that place where you reach out on Facebook: Who is the best plumber in my neighborhood? You reach out to a connection that you met years ago, like I reached out to you Russell because I saw something go by on LinkedIn. I haven’t spoken to him in a while; let me see how I can connect. I ended up being here on your podcast. This is great, of course, but it’s just a wonderful thing where you can just go up and connect with people.</p> <p>We saw those two things happening, where technology and psychology are diverging. We wanted to bring them back together and give people a chance to connect with their fellow human beings and show people how to do that. Charisma is a skill. It’s something you can learn. It’s something you can always get better at. It’s an interesting thing. I hope that suffices to say who I am and what I do.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It does to a degree, but man, there is so much more there that is phenomenal. You talk about the word “charisma.” A lot of people think that charisma, they look at a figure that is out there, that everybody knows, somebody like a Les Brown or a Dave Austin or a Dan Car? That is full of energy, high profile, extroverted, but that’s not who everybody is. When it comes to nonprofits or for-purpose businesses, that is what they really are, relationships are everything. I think we went through a period in our society of extreme narcissism, and now people are starting to understand that no matter what you do, relationships are at the center of that. A lot of people probably feel like they’re in the dark. You either have all of this juice and charisma. You’re either open or you’re not. That is not necessarily the case because everybody’s a little bit different.</p> <p>My first question is: Is there a natural tendency for people to step away from their authentic selves in order to try to make an impression on others?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Absolutely. And you’re correct that not everybody is Oprah. I would posit that you don’t need to be. We already have Oprah. She is great at being Oprah. I personally am not Oprah. I don’t want to be. My business partner is completely different from me. Russ, you’re different. Hugh, you’re different. We are all different. That’s what makes us that much more valuable. There is definitely a natural tendency for people to step away from their own greatness. They look at those very charismatic people who are out there showing the world who they really are. The natural tendency for people to step away sadly happens to most of us in the Western world for various reasons, social circles telling us we’re not good enough, the media giving us unrealistic expectations of who we should be or what life should be like. You’ve got to realize that most people are afraid to express who they are. That natural tendency is definitely there, but I look at people who eventually get to a point in their lives. It’s usually someone who is a little older, and they realize basically no one else cares, so why should they? You look at someone who is old enough, experienced enough, and they just don’t care anymore. They’re truly who they are. They’re themselves. They just go, “You know what? I’m just gonna be me.” Those people are the most interesting people to meet, to talk to, to work with because they’re just being themselves. I’d say that yes, there is a natural tendency to step away from being their authentic selves, mostly because there is fear there. If there is, it’s hard for you to be silent with another person, if it’s hard for you to go out there and express yourself, if you’re constantly having to say, “I’m going to fake it until I make it,” an authentic person doesn’t have to fake it. They’re going to say, “This is me.” Look to reducing that fear for yourself to help yourself there.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I prefer “Act as if,” to “Fake it ‘til you make it” because you’re not putting up a façade or trying to be something you’re not. I think that throws people out of their greatness because really the further we move away from our authentic selves, the less greatness we have. You work with business leaders from Fortune 100 companies. You work with nonprofit leaders. You work with government entities, a little bit of everybody. People interact. It’s all about relationships. How might the idea that people think they have to put up a certain impression, how could that hamper them in their role as a nonprofit leader or business leader or government leader?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> The important word there is “leader.” In business, in life, in government, in for-purpose businesses or nonprofits, however you want to call it, you’re there to lead for a change. If you’re going to step away from your greatness, that is going to hamper your ability to actually lead. An invisible magnet sit sin between people. It’s called trust. We have huge sections of our brain that are dedicated, hard-wired to figure out congruency, trusting people. As human beings, we have to evolve over many thousands of years to learn: Is this person taking advantage? Is this person contributing to the group? We’re very good at sensing any incongruence. When you have an incongruence, you don’t trust that person. If you don’t trust that person- Think about it. If you didn’t trust someone, could you really be influenced by them? If someone is holding a gun to your head, you can’t really trust them. They might influence you in that moment to get what they want done, right? But if the external threat is removed, you don’t trust that person. You can’t rely on their word. You can’t rely on them to say what they’re going to do. If I say, “I’m going to take this left turn, and I go right,” that erodes some trust. Sure, there are different things in life where you say you’re going to do one thing and circumstances make you have to do another. That’s fine. Again, if you’re the kind of person who says, “You know what? I promised you this; this happened. Here is how I’m going to make it right,” an apology makes all the difference. We make mistakes. We all screw up somehow in our lives. It’s the way we get back into trusting relationships with the people around us that really matters.</p> <p>If you are going to step away from being your authentic self, people will see an incongruence. They may not necessarily know what it is. They may not be able to put their finger on it, but they will say, “I don’t know. I don’t know about that person. I don’t know if I can trust them.” So it will hamper your ability to be a leader in the world, to get the change that you’re looking for in the world. If you’re not going to be your authentic self, whomever that is- There are people out there who are, as far as I would be concerned, super weird. I’m not just gonna connect with that person. But they are totally authentic. And their audience is massive and exploding because the people who love them are there with them. The people who don’t, mostly it’s just like, “I don’t care. I won’t pay attention.” Being authentic creates trust. It creates relationship. If you step away from that, you’re only hurting yourself and your cause.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think one of the important qualities that leaders in nonprofits recognize is this need to influence people. You have to influence people to serve on your board. You have to influence people to give to your cause. You have to influence people to use your services. Probably a lot like other businesses, this notion of influence makes people very uncomfortable. One of the troubles that I have seen leaders have in all types of organizations is this need to be a Superman or a Superwoman, where the buck stops here and they get it all done. How much of that have you run into? What are some of the problems you’ve seen that people have created for themselves as far as being able to build good collaborative connections that serve both parties?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> This is a multi-part question. In terms of people being a little bit worried about influencing and leadership, the right kind of leadership that you want is the kind where you go first, where you’re the one out ahead, forging the path, doing the thing that you, creating the world that you want to see. If you’re doing that the right way, people will follow you. The very definition of being a leader. If you are having to convince someone and cajole someone and force someone into a position, you’re not really leading. You’re forcing. And the idea of force versus influence is an important distinction. I could force lots of things to happen in my company, in my relationships, in my life. But force requires constant attention. It requires you to always be there forcing the issue. Eventually, force tends to backfire. The idea of physics: If you are pushing on something, whatever force you have, an action has an equal and opposite reaction. You want to be leading someone. You want to be pulling them along rather than pushing them along. That’s first. That’s what true influence and authenticity is about. You’re saying, “Look, this is the world that I’m creating. Do you want to help me create it? Let’s go! However you want to join is going to be up to you, of course.”</p> <p>The second part of: How do people go wrong? How do they get trapped in this? They will have several complexes. One is that savior complex of, “I’m the one who has to do this.” They feel that if they are not the one to do it, they somehow won’t get credit. They won’t feel good at the end of the day. But you look at massive organizations that tends to have to be a way—human beings, we set this up—is what business doesn’t have one or two leaders at the top? Do they get all the work done in these massive organizations? Absolutely not. What they’ve done and their real contribution is systems, to delegate, to make this kind of thing happen.</p> <p>Stories that I hear where people do well by themselves in this is companies like Toyota. Massive corporations. They didn’t use to be as massive as they are now ,but still pretty big. They’re making cars for the American market. Long story short, any worker at Toyota could just stop the line. They had a little pull chain. You pull it like this, and this entire lane of cars, hundreds of cars in a row on the assembly line, just stops. Everyone rushes over and realizes there is a problem here that they have to fix. We have to fix it for good, not just fix it today. If someone collapses, that’s obviously not good. But that is a system you have to put in place. Why did that person collapse? The idea of the five Why’s comes out there. You’re asking Why? five times in a row. You get to the root cause of the issue there. You can read about that kind of stuff.</p> <p>The other stories I remember of this guy I know is named Derek Sivers. He had a company called CD Baby for a long time. He sold it in an interesting way. He created a nonprofit that pays him while he is living. When he is gone, it is going to go toward music education. Very interesting  guy. If you ever need to look him up, I believe it’s Sivers.org. Really cool guy. What he did when he realized he was the bottleneck of his company is he did the same thing. He would get a question from one of his employees. He would stop and say we would create a system that solves this problem for the company. I never want to have to deal with this again. For the first few weeks, it was hell. I don’t want to have to do this. He took the initiative. He led, and then he showed his team, “This is the way that I think. This is where the idea of culture comes in. Let me show you how I think about this kind of thing. Then you guys get to go and do this.” Eventually he said, “You guys come up with your own systems and your own things.” Eventually, he was able to exit the company because he had created this massive set of systems that let the company run and become its own organization and make its own way.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> And that is the work that SynerVision does. We teach people-</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> How to implement systems that serve them and move them forward. Through creation of systems, co-creation of systems, everything comes together. In order to make an impression on people, good leaders need charisma. We talked about charisma. Marcus on Facebook asks, “What is your favorite book on charisma?”</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Ooh. Marcus, it’s funny, is one of my partners. He is trolling me a bit. Let’s see.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> He wants to make sure you are not sleeping in the board meeting.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> One of my favorite books on charisma is a book. I’m going to have to look up the name here. Give me a second. One of my favorite books is, there is a book called <em>The Way of the Superior Man.</em> I like this book because it’s got a few really good insights in it. For me, I read this book about once a year just because I find it so interesting. Don’t let the title scare you away if you’re a woman. In fact, if you’re a woman, you should read this because it’ll help you understand the men in your life to a greater extent than I think a lot of self-help and development stuff might show you otherwise.</p> <p>We talked earlier about being authentic is one of the best ways of being charismatic. Without that authenticity, people aren’t going to trust you. They’re going to wonder are you for real? This book at least for me broke down what it’s like to be a man in modern society, what you need to know, and helped me figure out. I remember there is a chapter in the book that says, Pretend your father is gone, that he’s dead, that he has no more influence on you. What are you going to do now? I had to sit with that one for a while because my dad is one of my heroes. He is an important figure in my life. We also go about life in different ways. When I read that chapter, I remember going like, “You know, I’m going to choose this path for my life rather than another one.” It’s an important book, I think, that people may not consider to be a leadership and influence book, but it helps you to discover yourself a bit more, especially as a man, but also again as a woman to understand yourself, too. We also have masculine and feminine parts of ourselves. Identities that we play into. Really good book. I would recommend that one to people.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Can I punctuate that, Russ? Joe, what generation are you in? Russell and I, we’re both boomers, aren’t we?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yep. We are crusty. We have been around for a long time. I plan to be around for a lot longer.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Crusty. So which generation are you in, Joe?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I believe it’s X. And maybe on the cusp of millennial.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell and I are champions of transformational leadership. You’re anchored in your authenticity. You model, you practice what you preach. You model what you want to see. As a musical conductor, that comes back to me instantly. Your culture is what they see in you. Authenticity is a real key. When you talk about millennials, that is a key factor. It’s a key factor, I think, more than any other generation. They don’t want to put up with the BS they have seen us boomers create. We are on our way out of some corporate jobs and church jobs and nonprofit jobs. They come in with a whole different sense. There is a similar set of values. When you’re looking at this community of collaborative thinking, how does this authenticity-? That is a really interesting book. I am hearing you talk about reading it again. I want to probe that authenticity as far as generations, how does that affect collaborations? As you read the book, tell me if you see different things every time you look at it.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I’ll answer the last question first. I see different things out of it every time I read it because I am a different person every time I read it. That is not the only book I read. My viewpoints change. My life changes. My circumstances change. I had a son a few years ago. When I- before having him and after having him, my life drastically changed in terms of the things I was doing, the businesses I had, and all kinds of stuff. But some of my risk tolerances changed for instance, like I used to go skydiving and motorcycle riding. You name an extreme or dangerous sport. I was there. Kite surfing. You name it. After I had my son, I said, “You know what? I’m going to hold off on that for a while.” I know there are people who would agree with that. I know there are people who would disagree. A bunch of the people I used to do things with were like, “What? Just because you have a kid, that doesn’t change.” But honestly it changed for me. What’s most important to me is going to be less important perhaps to someone else. To me, some of my most important values are family and freedom. I like to spend time with my family. I like to be the man around the house that’s fixing my house. I fix stuff around here all the time. My life changed, and so in reading that book again, I got the one chapter I talked about, imagine your father is dead, I imagined myself as being dead and what I would want my son to know. I wrote some stuff down in a letter. It’s in a fireproof safe or whatever. If I was ever gone prematurely, my son could get hopefully some of my wisdom passed along to him in some way. The book doesn’t change, but I change enough that I notice different things in the book. It makes all the difference. That’s why I read it about once a year.</p> <p>In terms of your other question, authenticity between generations, I don’t think people are less authentic or more authentic between these generations. I think that technology has made certain things a bit more magnified than they were in the past. You look at stuff like: We’re on Facebook live right now. Potentially thousands of people could be seeing this at the moment, whereas right now we are talking as this is a personal conversation between us three. These kinds of things have changed the social dynamics of where we’re at generationally but also just as human beings. Normally, this would just be between us, and we’d get a good impression of each other. Maybe we’d learn some things, and we’d go off to our separate activities. Now this is recorded. People can watch this over and over. Hundreds of people are watching this outside of just us three. We have a different take. Human beings, when we know we are being recorded, when we know someone else can listen to this later, we edit our speech. We do these things commonly.</p> <p>I have gotten to the point in my life where it’s like this is me. This is who I am. I’m going to express myself in the best way that I know how. Like I said, I’m not Oprah, nor do I want to be. I’m Joe. Nice to meet you. If one of my business partners Marcus was on here, he’d be joking with you guys a bit more. He’s the more funny guy of our little group, and we love him for it. Marcus exudes this charisma in his own special way. Another partner of mine, Johnny, he’s the hard-charging, intense guy that if you ever want something done, ask Johnny because he will just get it done until it’s done. I am more the reserved type, but it works for all of us.</p> <p>If there is much of a generational gap, it’s just because people have different values. They have different ideas of what they think life should be like, how they should conduct themselves. If you just look at the other person and look at what they care about the most, what they value, you’ll find you have a lot more in connection than you think. You guys have probably seen the movie <em>The Breakfast Club</em> for instance. There is the stoner kid. There is the outcast. There is the jock. There is the whatever. Ostensibly, we all went through that kind of high school experience. Many of these groups don’t really come together. All of these kids had detention on the weekend. It sucks. They’re there, but they’re all different. What they come to realize of course is that they’re all very similar. They all have the same struggles in life. They all have hard things going on. They all realize they can support each other. It’s a great movie, a great metaphor for how I think different social groups and generations can come together and realize we are all human beings. We are all here to live our lives. We are all here to connect with people. We are all here to collaborate, communicate, do all those good things. When you realize that powerful things can happen.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> These are the types of tools I use working with people. These are the tools we use with SynerVision: try to look at how all these different pieces and parts put together. The strength comes in the variety and diversity across different areas of knowledge, different skills, different personalities. The more you have, to find that common ground is phenomenal. This is what collaboration is about. I think a lot of people are afraid to look at collaborating because they feel that there is a piece of something that they’re going to lose out on if they collaborate with other people. It’s a scarcity mindset. Have you found that in business in general? I know we find it in nonprofits. What are some of the things you do to help people get comfortable with that and back up and understand how the differences that people have aren’t as scary as they think they are?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Yeah. You’re totally right. The differences that people have are actually their strengths. An example I use when I talk about collaboration is when I was running a team in Atlanta, great city if you’re ever there or want to go there, it’s awesome—I was working for this really large corporation. Being a management consultant, I am staying in a hotel all week and living out of a suitcase. The hotel gives these little soaps and shampoos. I don’t have a lot of hair. It’s not long. I only need very little.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It could be worse.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> It could be worse, right? But hey, I don’t need a lot of shampoo. I definitely don’t need all the lotion they give you. It’s hot and humid down there. I’m good. I would often just look at these and leave them in the room or throw them away. One day, I went, “There’s got to be something I can do with these.” I set up a box. I had about 40 employees working for me at the time. I set up this box in our team room. 40 people in their hotel rooms at the end of the week would throw their extra shampoos and conditioners and the hotel stuff that the hotel was going to throw away anyway because they can’t really use this stuff. They put this all in a box. I went and took this box once it was full, it was just 100 pounds of stuff, I took it down to a local shelter and said, “Hey, this is for you guys.” They’re like, “Whoa, what’s this?” They got very excited because people need this hygiene stuff. “It’s here for you. Take it.”</p> <p>That could have been the end of it. But I decided to- At Your Charisma Coach, we say, “Find your edge.” I went, “You know, this isn’t enough. I gotta go one step further.” What I did was I said, “I am going to come next time with another box of this. Would you mind when I do this if I called up a news producer here in Atlanta, and we’ll do a little news segment on your work here? I don’t want this to be about me. I want this to be about you. But that will use what I’m doing as the in because it’s news-worthy to do this.” They said, “Yeah, absolutely.” In the next month or so, I got enough of these bottles again and called up a news producer and said, “I am going to go down to this thing. I am donating 100 pounds of shampoo, conditioner, all that stuff. I think it would be interesting if you talked to these people, interviewed them, talked about why this was important to them, how it is going to help, and everything else.” The news producer said, “Absolutely, this is great. I’ll meet you down there.”</p> <p>I met them down there, and I had the nonprofit do a quick interview about why this helps, what we were doing. I got on screen for a few minutes, not even a few minutes, like 30 seconds, and said, “Hi, I am a local guy doing this. I think it’s important to support our local communities.” That kind of stuff. Through that news story, a ton of the hotels around have consultants there. They all started their own programs to be able to do this. It got to the point where this particular organization couldn’t handle any more of the donations, so they started sending them out to other organizations in the city. The word got back to my corporate headquarters. They started doing this in every other city that they were in. This consulting company was all around the world. Around the world, people unlocked this potential.</p> <p>What’s the key takeaway there? I looked at this as abundant thinking. I have this resource. I’m not using it. Maybe someone else can. The news media needs a story for the day. Great. I helped them create a story. That story helped influence a ton of people to say, “I could do that, too,” and they started doing that. Everyone in the community got to raise up. I couldn’t have done that on my own. I couldn’t be buying thousands of dollars of shampoo and donating it. Sure, I could do that. That would be where it stops. Instead of forcing myself to do that or forcing my employees to do that, I said, “Guys, I’m going to do this first If you want to join me, great. Then I will have other people get involved with their unique skills, gifts, abilities, and talents. We are all going to collaborate together.”</p> <p>When I look at companies and they say, “I don’t know how to communicate or collaborate. They’ll take my clients or my customers away,” I’d say, “Look to find someone who you can partner with. Look for someone to collaborate with who can do something you can’t.” You guys together, one’s chocolate, one’s peanut butter, together, you’re even better. Why not look at life that way where it’s a positive sum game? The more that you put in and collaborate with people, the more you will get out than you would individually.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Abundant thinking. That sounds like a quality that leaders should have, especially nonprofit leaders. How do you help them tap into the notion of abundant thinking? Put that into practice.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Oh boy. That would take perhaps a little while longer than we have here, but I’ll give the short answer. When you are collaborating with people, one of the best ways to do that is to listen to them, to find out what they actually need and want. When I want to collaborate more with people, individuals or businesses, for instance, a friend of mine was looking for a job. She has a decent one already. She just didn’t like where she’s at. She feels she is stagnating there; she wants to grow. I took it upon myself without her asking- A couple friends of mine are looking to hire in the same kind of role she is in. I sent them a message that said, “Hey, you need to reach out to this person because this person is great. They can do really good work. They are kind of looking for a move, but they don’t know where to go yet. Can you reach out to them for 10 minutes and talk to them?” Fast forward a week later. I get this call, like, “I just got this offer from apparently a friend of yours? What did you do?” We say this at Your Charisma Coach as well. We try to put rabbits in hats. The other phrase is we put treasure in a chest. She didn’t ask me to do this. I didn’t have to do this. I look for opportunities to say, “How can I serve this person? How can I make it so that they’ll get to shine in their own lives?” In a five-minute, ten-minute call from me to a couple of friends of mine, I got her a great job. She loves where she’s at. My friends as well who had the company are ecstatic because they have someone who wasn’t really even on the market. They didn’t even know they were looking for her. They got a great fit. That was my gift essentially to all of them. I looked at it as like, Could I have gotten a fee for doing that? I recruited her. Sure. But the best way to collaborate with people is that you just give to them. You don’t have a need to collaborate with them.</p> <p>I don’t really want to collaborate with people. I’m not going to say, “Will you please collaborate with me?” It’s more like I am out there doing cool stuff in the world. I want to make it so people are knocking down my door to collaborate with me. Do something interesting.</p> <p>Going back, be authentic. Be the organization, the person that you are in life, in the world, and people then kind of show up. At Your Charisma Coach, we have people emailing us, “How can I work for you? How can we intern for you? I will do unpaid work. I don’t care what it is. I just want to be around you and absorb whatever it is that you have and maybe some of it will rub off on me.” We don’t actually go out and look for most of these things. People show up because we are being who we are. That is so interesting to people. It’s so, for lack of a better word, charismatic to people that they will want to collaborate with you. If you are having trouble collaborating with someone, look to yourself, be someone who you would want to collaborate with, and you’ll find people starting to come out of the woodwork. Then all it takes is a dose of creativity.</p> <p>The example I gave before is, I had something that was going to waste. I guarantee you there is waste in your organization in some other way that it’s something you’re doing, or something like this, a conversation between high-level business people that would normally just be between them, record it, send it to an audience. Some people will like that. Other people won’t. That’s okay. But you will find people who resonate with those kinds of things you’re doing. They will want to contribute and collaborate. There will always be people who want to compete and tear things down. I don’t really pay attention to them. I look for the people who want to create more in life, to make something better in the world. I go, “You’re doing that. Great.”</p> <p>There is a charity in the UK. It’s called The Loneliness Project. We are looking to do some collaborations with them as well. We’re not going to be like, “Please collaborate with us.” We are going, “Hey, we’re helping people be more charismatic. Your message and our message are closely aligned. If you’d like to work with us, great. If you wouldn’t, great. We will still support you anyway. We hope to send some people and some attention your way.” We’re there to give. We’re there to give all the time. We are not looking to force anyone into some interaction with us, but just to have fun.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Joe, speaking of drilling down on nonprofits, charities, for-purpose organizations, there is not really experience and knowledge on collaboration. We’re duplicating efforts with multiple charities in the community. They are competing for donor dollars. What do you think is the bridge to help similar charities that are even local or around the country, what is the barrier that charities, leaders in nonprofits need to consider to break through to- Russell and I see collaboration as opening up a vault to a lot more success. What is the biggest barrier, and what is the antidote to that?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> The biggest barrier to collaboration? I’d say the biggest barrier to collaboration is value misalignment. If you value one thing and I value another, then it’s gonna be difficult for us to collaborate. I would say don’t partner with those kinds of people. Don’t collaborate with them. You just won’t have a good time. You could make it work. You could force things to happen. But again, that is force versus influence. But if you both want the same thing, if you both have the same kind of mission, then it’s easy for you to say, “You know what? There is more than enough donor dollars to go around.” Believe me, there is. There is so much cash available in the world; it’s just finding it and creating it in some cases that becomes the interesting challenge.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Sometimes the people who have the closest alignment, the most similar values, the most overlapping missions, see each other as competitors. Besides if they are aligned, what are some more barriers to thinking collaboratively from a leadership standpoint?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong>  That scarcity mindset of there is so many donor dollars to go around. That is just a belief. It’s not true. I haven’t seen that to be true in my experience. That is one of the biggest things that stops people from collaborating. They think that they do that. I think also another example is that many people don’t have examples of how to do this. They don’t know. It just doesn’t occur to them that it might be possible to collaborate with another organization that maybe has a very similar mission or a very different one. They just don’t do it. It’s like saying, “Well, I didn’t consider that I could use my car to drive to the store, but I drive to work every day.” It’s the same stuff. You’re just going to a different kind of destination. With organizations, often I tell them, “You can look outside of the nonprofit sphere for people you can connect with and collaborate with if that is where you want to start.”</p> <p>One way that is really great is something that I’ve done in the past with nonprofits and with larger corporations. This is a model that comes from a guy named Brendan Brouchard. What he does is similar to my hotel story where if you’re some kind of a business or creator or someone that has a product or service that a nonprofit would be interested in, or if you’re the nonprofit and you’re interested in someone’s services- Let’s say Tony Robbins has some special seminar that you’d love all your people to attend, but Tony Robbins’ stuff is high-end, it’s expensive, so maybe you don’t have the money to pay for that out of donations, or maybe your donors wouldn’t like that. So what can you do? Add a third party. Let’s say the Red Cross. Or scale this up and down to the size of your organization and who you can access. Let’s use some well-known examples. If you’re the Red Cross and you say, “I want to send 10,000 people to a Tony Robbins event,” great. How do we pay for this? How do we get this done? Tony needs to make some money to put this on at the very least. We need to get people excited and invited. But let’s add in a third party. Let’s call up Coca-Cola who really cares about people being able to buy Coca-Cola around the world. They have millions and millions of advertising budget for instance. Bigger corporations like Coca-Cola literally have entire teams whose job it is to help put funds in the right place to nonprofits. If you don’t know that, go research it. It’s pretty interesting. What a nonprofit or company who wants to offer this service can do is go out to the nonprofit or vice versa and say, “Can we use your name?” If Tony Robbins said, “Can I use your name, Red Cross, to go to Coca-Cola and say, ‘I want to put on this cool event.’”</p> <p>I did this for a local charity in LA. We created an event where we got a bunch of local businesses around LA to bring a lot of their employees and to donate some money to an event. This event was teaching charisma, soft skills, those kinds of things to the particular people who were 18-25-year-olds. They are called the transition age youth. They have aged out of foster care. They are technically adults. After 18 and up until 25 is this age range. They are in a very vulnerable age when you come from a disadvantaged home, life. These people are looking for jobs. They are looking to get out there in the work force. They are good kids. They want to do things right. What we did is we said, “We are going to bring these kids. They are going to come for free.” These businesses around LA, we said, “Please either sponsor the event, and we will put in a small advertisement in a flyer, or pay for a ticket and have your people come. It’s still useful, great information for your employees, for your leaders to get in on.”</p> <p>Fast forward to the event. We had what amounted to a training event. At this training event, everyone got to learn greater skills on how to communicate better, how to collaborate better, how to connect with their fellow human beings. These kids got to learn a ton of stuff they wouldn’t have learned otherwise. These companies got access to young, fresh employees who are great people. They wouldn’t have known about each other otherwise. We put them together in a mentoring relationship during this weekend. The more seasoned employees got to sponsor and mentor a younger kid. Everyone really loved it. It’s now an event that runs every year and has continually grown. We took this spirit of collaboration. We said, “This nonprofit can ask for donors. That’s great. This company can try to advertise to these people. That’s great. I as a businessperson can try and get into these groups and maybe partner with them. That’s great. But all three of us together can do so much more.” Once this started going, they now understand this model, so they have taken it out. I know one of their executives left the organization and is now at another one, doing the same thing in another city. These ideas, these means start to spread out into the world.</p> <p>If you are looking to collaborate, look beyond just your local experience. Go out into the world and say, “Who has what I want?” Your problem I guarantee you is someone else’s solution. You’ll be able to find someone who wants to contribute to you in a meaningful way.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, this last seven minutes has been a capsule of possibilities. I don’t know what you’re thinking, but I’m thinking we need to get on the phone with Joe Homes and see if there is a collaboration with SynerVision that we can pop out of a bubble and put some of these things to work.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I’ll show you how.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Joe, I have to be the hard nose guy here. We have come up to the end of our interview. We try to keep these under an hour. It is fascinating. We could talk to you all day. Russell, thank you for inviting him here.</p> <p>I think we are going to try to get you to write for <em>Nonprofit Performance Magazine.</em> I think there’s a story brewin’. What do you think, Russell?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Oh yes. He’s done a lot with that. We talked at some length a little while back when I bounced the idea to him about the podcast. We talked about a number of different projects and the power of collaboration. The time has come for that. It’s really time for all of us to point our thinking in that direction. The business networks I’m in do that. The organizations I’ve been working with do the same thing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> For those listening, go to info@synervisionleadership.org. Send us an email if you are interested in having a conversation. Our new website will be up soon. SynerVisionLeadership.org is up now just as a placeholder. But we have a lot more in our community for community builders.</p> <p>Before Russell closes us out, Joe, what would you like to leave our listeners with?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Given that we are talking about community and leadership, a lot of leaders and organizations think they have to be really impressive to make an impression out there, to get donor dollars. I would say if you are going down the impression route, you’re going to run into most likely the fact that it’s going to be inauthentic in some way. People are going to lose the congruence that you have. Instead, look to express yourself in the world. Don’t worry about what other people think. Don’t worry about how you’re going to be judged. Just be you. Be that person in the senior living home that is like, “I don’t even care. I am just going to show you what I’ve got. This is me. Take it or leave it.” Think about all the most interesting people you know from celebrities like Oprah to even just the guy next door that you think is fascinating. Every one of them does not care what you think about them. They’re just out there expressing themselves. I would say if you are going to be a leader in your organization, go first. Express yourself. Be who you really are. I know that is the best worst advice ever. Just be yourself, right? The reason people say that is because you are enough. You are everything you need. Express that in the world, and look to be the most relaxed, easy person in any conversation you’re in. You will be more charismatic than you think. If I can leave you guys with that, that is what I would leave you with.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Great stuff. It’s been an absolute pleasure to talk with you. I am looking forward to talking with you some more because I have some tools we want to provide to these nonprofit leaders out here. Thank you out there, all of you, who got out of bed this morning with the thought of how you can do something to make other people’s lives better. What and why are you doing your job today? How is none of your business. Trust. Trust and move forward. Pick up the tools, and you’ll have it.</p> <p>This is Russell Dennis signing off. Joe Homes, thanking him again. My good-looking colleague, Hugh Ballou. There was a point in time where he was jealous of my naturally curly hair. Once he got over that, he decided he’d like to have me hang out with him and be here with all of you great folks every week. Keep doing what you’re doing. The world is becoming a better place every day, every day that you’re out here, swinging and going out here and doing a service and being you. This is Russ Dennis signing off. We will see you right here next week.</p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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 Transcript of Interview with Scot McCarthy
 Hugh Ballou: It’s Hugh Ballou. It’s another great version of The Nonprofit Exchange. We are four years into this, Russell. What do you think of that?
 Russell Dennis: I think the next six we are going to blow the lid off of this thing.
 Hugh: You blow the lid off every week.
 Russell: And grow and grow and grow.
 Hugh: We have a mild-mannered man here in Lynchburg. He has got a lot under the hood. He’s got a little hair there. He hasn’t quite reached your perfect head status yet. Scot McCarthy is a man I met at the business alliance here. We have some mutual friends here. He has referred me to folks, and I’ve referred him to folks. I’ve determined that he has some really unique expertise that is applicable for these nonprofits that we’re talking to. We try to give them really good sound business principles because we are actually operating a tax-exempt business with a lot of rules for the IRS. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange, Scot.
 Scot McCarthy: Thank you. Good to be here.
 Hugh: Tell us a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your background, and what is it that you say that you do.
 Scot: My son doesn’t believe me, but years ago I had a full head of hair. He looks at this today and says, “No, that’s my future.” It’s kind of funny. I found a couple pictures of myself in high school where he is today. I had a nice, big, thick head of hair just like he has today, and it was sad that I kind of saw the soul sucked right out of his body. I’m trying to help my son recover.
 But in the meantime, what I have been doing with my life is working in the corporate world, the nonprofit world, and everywhere in between for the last 20 years or so on organizational development and organizational effectiveness roles.  I have a lot of time with individual teams and leadership development programs. I find that there is a nice translation between what we try to do in the for-profit world with our human resources to deliver for our customers and in reality we do the same thing in the nonprofit world. In fact, what I’ve found is that it’s even more important on the human development side in the nonprofit world because we tend not to have a whole lot of headcount to work with to get the job done for our customers and our client base.
 I’ve had a great career about 20-25 years in organizational development work. I have had my own company, Stylewise Partners, for the last three years, and I work with for-profit and nonprofit organizations.
 Hugh: You work regionally, or you work nationally?
 Scot: I work nationally. I do a lot of work for Stylewise Partners regionally, but because I have had such a fortunate network with General Electric and GE Capital and a number of different organizations over my career, I get called by other companies out of Richmond, out of Boston, out of Colorado, and other locations to come help them with organizational development work as well. My work takes me domestically, and in the past, internationally as well.
 Hugh: Awesome. And you and I have similar work, but you do it a little differently in a different segment. We have a passion for enabling and empowering and encouraging nonprofit leaders. One of our guests a few weeks ago, Romal Tune, said we have a for-profit business, but this one is a for-purpose business. I really liked it.
 What are we going to talk about today?
 Scot: Today, what I thought we’d touch on is seeing the fact that nonprofits have to really get the most out of their human resources, I wanted to talk a little bit about engagement. How do you help folks in what can sometimes be a stressful or resource-restricted environment to still come in with their passion on fire and get the most out of everybody on a daily basis in the nonprofit world? I think employee engagement is the topic that is on my mind today.
 Hugh: We have purposeful organizations, and it’s important to have purposeful people do purposeful work. That is a good continuity piece. HR. Talk a little bit about HR. A lot of charities don’t even think about it. You said HR, didn’t you?
 Scot: Yeah.  
 Hugh: I heard that. By the way, Russ, we’re having a coffee. Some of my freshly roasted espresso beans with a little latte. If we could, we would share it with you, but we can’t.
 Russell: Just don’t have too much of it. I don’t want you guys to look like a pair of operators before the broadcast ends.
 Hugh: That’s it. We want to keep it lively. Talk about HR. Do you work with HR directors in for-profits and for-purpose organizations?
 Scot: Yes, absolutely. In fact, my career was, I kind of think of HR as two legs of a stool or two pieces of the pie. There is the policies and procedures and regulatory side of human resources, and what we can and can’t do, and where we need to make sure that we remain compliant. Then there is the human development side of HR. That’s really where I focused in my career. Honestly, I just never found my passion around the policies and procedures and that side of HR. Absolutely critically important. I think that’s something that nonprofits really can take advantage of HR leaders in their communities where they can gain that expertise. I have worked for HR leaders in nonprofit health care and in for-profit financial services that were absolutely phenomenal, and both offered their services continually to nonprofits in the area to help make sure that they were taking care of all the crossing of the T’s and the dotting of the I’s.
 Hugh: That is so important. Russell, in your experience working with a number of nonprofits, is there a gap in competency in this area of human resources?
 Russell: Talking to people to really find out what they need is important. It begins with finding out what’s in it for them, whether you’re asking a volunteer or someone on your board or bringing them in to work: What are your motivations? You don’t always have a lot of money to work with, so you will have to find some of those other motivations, whether it’s building your personal network or getting some visibility through something they create or through some growth opportunities. Are they students? Are they padding their resumes? Are they seniors looking for a way to make a difference? It really boils down to effective relationships and having people connect with you on that level.  
 Hugh: And you mentioned the two sides of HR. I see this more and more. Sometimes they are dividing the work. There is a person that does culture. It’s personal growth. How do we nurture this culture development? That is my passion. The other side, you have the legal compliance piece, to keep you out of trouble, which is important. Those two really need to work together because we can do culture creation, which empowers the compliance piece. If people function at a higher level, not only are they more fulfilled personally, but their work is more efficient, more effective.
 Scot: Absolutely. A lot of times, I really enjoy helping organizations, especially nonprofits, focus on what are the behaviors that make up that culture? What is our mission and vision? What are we here to do to deliver in the marketplace and in the community? What are the key behaviors that we need from our people to deliver on that mission and vision? Where I see that tie coming in is that when people are not displaying the right behavior, the right motives, the right purpose, that’s when we get into trouble with the compliance issues. That’s when people are bending the rules a little bit too far and going to the point of breaking them versus remaining compliant and again crossing all our T’s and dotting all our I’s.
 Hugh: In talking about behaviors, there are tools that we can take instruments that we can do, like DISC or Myers-Briggs or some of those tools. Do you use some of those tools? What is the benefit in using any of those instruments?
 Scot: Absolutely. I am a strong believer from an internal perspective on Myers-Briggs, what my own personal preference is for how I integrate with the world and how I interact with the world. From a visible behavior perspective, I think Insights is a tremendous tool. I think DISC is a tremendous tool. I use DISC all the time from an individual coaching perspective, from a leadership coaching perspective, but then as an organizational culture and team development perspective as well. I think it’s important. We have to, especially in a nonprofit, where the teams are typically smaller, and we need to be more flexible in how we work with each other during the day to be able to understand why Scot approaches a certain task or certain responsibility differently than Hugh does differently than Russell does. Not to necessarily say I am right, you are wrong, or you are right and I am wrong. But just know that this is how Hugh approaches things, this is the strength he has, this is the benefit of his thought process that he can bring to the organization. How do we get the best out of Russell? How do we get the best out of Scot? How do we get the best out of Sally and Jane and really come together to be a strong cohesive team?
 Hugh: It’s good when you go through that as a staff together. I did Myers-Briggs several iterations with different church staffs. I remember one in Florida where we had been away for a three-day retreat. Part of one of the days was Myers-Briggs and the understanding of what it means and how introverts and extroverts relate to each other. I go in the choir and get them on the edge of their seats and say, “Guess what? I found out something about myself!” “Okay, what?” “I’m an extrovert!” They went, “Boo, hiss. We know that.”
 Scot: That was easily read, I can imagine.
 Hugh: I’m like way over. The bar was over. ENFJ. Yeah, you could figure that one out.
 Scot: Get stuff done.
 Hugh: Make a decision. But I also, the liabilities of that, J’s make a decision without enough information. P’s, Perceiving, need more information, but they wait too long, so having the relationship, which is the foundation of leadership, I think, having the relationship of those two balance each other out. Does DISC offer different kinds of elements than Myers-Briggs? I think a lot of people know Myers-Briggs or know about it.
 Scot: Yeah, DISC is another acronym. We don’t need another acronym in life, but here it is. D is around Dominance, or how do I overcome obstacles to get things done? It’s about challenging the status quo. It’s about gathering information from different pieces, making a quick decision, and moving forward.
 I is around Influence or relationships. I is the human side of things. I’s come into the office on Monday morning and check in with everybody, saying, “How is the weekend? How did the kids do on their sports teams? Did you go to church? Did you like that song that we did?” It’s all around the interactions. Meanwhile, the D’s are going, “Get to work. Come on. Let’s go.”
 The S is around Steadiness, which is around the piece of, “Do I enjoy a nice steady pace in my life?” like opening up a box to put up a ceiling fan in the house. A high steadiness person would open up the box carefully and take the inventory, go step one, step two, step three, step four, and eventually put up a ceiling fan. A non-steadiness person would rip the box open and just start putting stuff together. It’s neither here nor there in terms of what’s right and what’s wrong; it’s just how you go about life. Steadiness is around the pace of life. I happen to be a higher steadiness person. If my wife, who I love dearly, comes to me on a Saturday morning and says, “Can you get this done today?” it will get me crazy because I already have my Saturday scheduled out. Sometimes, S’s have trouble with priorities because if I have my list of 10 things I am doing on that Saturday, if the kitchen is on fire and the wife asks me to put the fire out, it is #11 on my list. I have already got my top 10.
 Hugh: Funny.
 Scot: That’s a little bit about high steadiness. C is around Conscientiousness. How do we handle rules and procedures set by others? Do we follow the rules? Or is it more of a Pirates of the Caribbean thing where the rules are just guidelines?
 So that’s a little bit about DISC. It’s very visible. The thing I like about DISC is you can see if someone is a rule-follower or a rule-breaker. You can see if someone has a preference for a step one, step two, step three approach to the world or if they like to fight fires. I have a friend of mine who is an emergency, ED, doctor in the hospital. Step one, step two, step three kind of applies, but he loves not knowing what is coming in the door next. If he was put into a cubicle and said to balance these T sheets with debits and credits, it would drive him crazy. All of that comes into play in the world of nonprofit in terms of how well leaders know their people and what their people are best at and how you can best utilize those resources that you have on your team.
 DISC is a very effective tool to be able not only to have your team know each other better, understand each other better, come together as a team, but for the leader to have that information to go, “Ah, Hugh is the guy who will make sure that we are doing things with quality and accuracy. Jane is the one who is going to push us to make that decision when we have enough data and push us forward. So-and-so is the people person. They will be great in marketing these new events we have coming up.” It’s a tool that you can use to really maximize the effectiveness of your team.
 Hugh: In its best sense. There is a weakness side, too. I got a couple of follow-up questions. It helps you discover yourself and your own style. Being authentic as a leader is part of what Russ and I teach. It’s also important to know that when you are talking to your donors. You said across the desk, bottom line person, get to the point, or do you sit at the corner of your desk, talk about family? Can you tell about a person? You’re not going to tell them to take a profile and then proceed from the DISC profile. Can you get to know them before you present so you know where they fit?
 Scot: Yeah, I think so. In some of my DISC presentations, I have a slide that gets to that in terms of: If people are focusing on When, When is it going to be done? When do we have to have this? The decisions that are being made. That tends to be someone who focuses on the D or the Dominance. It’s time-oriented. We need to do this, make this decision, and move on.
 If they tend to focus on Who, Who needs to be involved? Who do we need to communicate with? Who do we need to gain information from? Might be dealing with someone that is a Higher I or Influencer.
 If they talk about process a lot, like what happens first? What happens next? What happens next? What happens next? That tends to be high steadiness because they are so process-oriented.
 If they are focusing on the rules and regulations and they are trying to always focus on delivering with quality and accuracy, that tends to be highly Conscientious. You can almost pick up DISC characteristics and preferences based on what people tend to focus on and what they are asking us about.
 Hugh: We need to know what people are presenting to and how they receive information and how we are going to relate to them.
 There is also a negative side. I’ve seen people with Myers-Briggs and DISC try to cover up their weaknesses by saying, “This is my profile, so get over it.” They use it as an excuse because they really haven’t developed the relationships and accountabilities with people or gotten to know the usage of it well. Do you want to speak to that side? How do we prevent that from being a problem?
 Scot: I think that’s really important. I think the other learning that we need to bring in there is maybe a little bit from Goleman in terms of emotional intelligence and social intelligence. We can always capitalize on our strengths, and I do encourage people to do that. Recognize that a high D brain brings certain characteristics and certain benefits to the party. No matter what our style is, no matter our blend of Myers-Briggs or DISC or any other assessment, we are going to have things that enable us to be successful. We are going to have characteristics that are potential barriers. To say, “Well, this is here I am. Tough. Deal with it,” we are cutting ourselves short in terms of our potential effectiveness.
 I always go after the concept of flexing my style. Just like you’re saying, if I am dealing with a donor, they are a high D. They just want the bare bones; what’s my money going to go to? What is the benefit of me donating to this cause? When am I going to start seeing the benefits? Then I want to make sure I flex my style. Even if I’m not a high D, I am going to flex my style to that person so I can live in their world and talk their language for a little bit. If I am working with a high I, and I just go in with the facts and figures, I am going to seem very cold to that donor. I am going to need to relate to their stories and talk about the human benefits and the human stories behind this. I think you’re selling, anyone that says, “Well, this is my style, and that’s all there is to it,” they are selling themselves short. They can be much more effective if they capitalize on their strengths but also learn to flex toward the style of others to foster that relationship. That is where the social intelligence comes into play. My emotional intelligence, I can manage and understand my own emotions, but to be able to work effectively with you or with others, I have to understand where you’re coming from, what’s important to you, and how can I deliver some of that for you so that you can then in turn help me deliver what I want to deliver?
 Hugh: I’m going to throw it to Russ because he is good at this flex. He has to flex every week at 2:00 when I show up. He has to accommodate my age and mental condition very often.
 Scot: Oh, look at him.
 Hugh: He thought he was going to get by without me pulling that card.
 Russell: We’re not even halfway through the broadcast, and we have fallen onto that again. You know, we’re going to get that. Flexibility is really the key. When you’re building relationships, you develop a little bit of a compass for that sort of thing over time. The conversations we have really in the nonprofit world is about what’s important to the person we’re talking to. We can kind of get a gauge and a feel for that. It’s really going with the flow because you’re relating to each person individually. There is no good one-size-fits-all formula for dealing with people, even when we have a lot of wonderful stuff that we talked about.
 Another thing we haven’t really talked about is the Strengths Finder. There was another inventory I found called an IPIP. It was really interesting. I have to look for that. That was a battery that took about a half hour. Told me a lot of things about whether I was altruistic, and it had about eight or ten other areas measuring emotionally and mentally. These are ways to learn about yourself. One thing I did for myself was to actually email and send letters to some people who know me really well to find out what they thought I did well and where I could use a little bit of help. Other people are a lot more, that get used to dealing with us, they can find our superpowers and our kryptonite and lay it out. Sometimes we are blind to that stuff. We don’t even know what we know, and we don’t know what we don’t know. Of course, if I just had a blanket age/mental condition or something like that, that’s not going to work with new people. The people who have known you for a while are just going to go, “Oh no, not again.”
 Hugh: That’s an excuse. As you’re bringing that up, Russ, I’m thinking there is a comradery/collaboration/encouragement that sometimes happens around people’s learning styles. I hope you got some affirmations from the people you emailed, I’m sure you did, about your skills and your talents and your presence in the world. You got some good things, I’m sure.
 Russell: Well, yeah, but there were a couple that were watching this show. They said for the age that you are, your mental condition ought to be a little better. I won’t say which people said that. This other battery I was talking about, I just had that in front of me. It’s called an IPIP Ennionarrative. I found this. It was developed by a gentleman at Penn State University. The areas it measures are Extroversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, Neuroticism (meaning are you neurotic), and Openness. It’s really interesting. It’s worth taking a little bit of time. It can be a little wordy. I had to go through it and pull some stuff out of the summary. It’s really good.  
 Hugh: Seems like a song.
 Russell: I will grab the URL and drop it in there.
 Hugh: Do you have a question brewing for our guest today?
 Russell: I do. One of the things I was thinking about was when you walk into a business and you are starting to talk to people about things that matter to them, why is it important to find out what people want to get better at? Is that a currency you’re finding that is left on the table? People walk in, and they walk away because they don’t think there’s any chance for them to grow.
 Scot: Give me a little bit more on that, Russ. In terms of, are you thinking about organizational growth? Are you thinking about personal growth?
 Russell: I’m thinking about personal growth because you can’t always write a bigger check. People may or may not say out loud that what they want to do is gain more of a skillset. What sort of questions do you ask to gauge whether or not that something that is really important to them?  
 Scot: I tend to do as much homework up front as I can in terms of learning the person’s organization and even learning about the person themselves. Websites like LinkedIn and others are very useful to do some homework ahead of time. But then when we’re meeting, especially for the first time, there was a great book, and I don’t know if I have it with me today or not. There is a great coaching book that I found has a very strong reference. I’ll have to grab the title for you. It is something along the lines of Say Less, Ask More Questions, and Change the Way You Lead the Rest of Your Life. I might have it in my briefcase off to the side here because I was just using it with a client.
 The approach in that book is really just spending some time with someone and finding out what’s going on in their life right now. Is it content- or project-specific? Is it people issues, people challenges, human interactions? Or is it any type of a pattern within their organization? So what’s really happening in their world that they would like to see some more success around? Coaching them along the lines of, “All right, so what have we tried so far? What’s keeping you up at night about this particular topic?” Start to get them to think about those challenges that they’re having and addressing them in a safe environment. Hugh, you do a lot of coaching. To me, the real kicker is creating a safe environment for people to feel vulnerable with you a little bit or safe enough to feel vulnerable to say, “This particular aspect of my nonprofit or my working with the board or this one board member I’m having an issue with,” just getting them comfortable enough to share that with you so that you can ask them some more questions or get them thinking about a more productive approach. What have you found there?
 Hugh: Absolutely. As you’re talking, it’s not only that I coach the leader, but I coach the leader on coaching. I don’t know who said this, but they said that coaching is 90% listening, and the other 10% is mostly listening. I find that leaders primarily don’t know the skills they need to lead. They think it’s push to do this, and the conductor knows it’s pull. Here’s where it’s going. You want to hold that up.
 Scot: Can I share this?
 Hugh: We’ll put it in the podcast notes.
 Scot: One of the most useful coaching resources. I have kind of outlined this book. I share it with different classes that I go to. It’s The Coaching Habit: Say Less, Ask More &amp; Change the Way You Lead Forever by Michael Stanier. Really useful. Just like seven or eight core questions that you help the other person think about. I have actually used this with nonprofit leaders. I have used it with team leaders. I have actually used it with my kids, getting them to think about an issue that is challenging them, whether it is around an academic subject, a relationship with someone in school.
 Hugh: It’s really universal principles.
 Scot: It absolutely is. The first question, here is my little outline of the book itself. The first question it gets you to think about: Hugh, in relationship to this topic we’re talking about, what’s on your mind? It starts out as broad as that. From there, you figure out if it’s a content issue, a people issue, a pattern issue. From there, take them down the coaching path.
 Hugh: Start easy. How many sleeves in the shirt? Build a confidence and rapport. Underneath leadership is relationship. You build trust and relationship before you can really impact anybody. Actually you said you use this with your corporate leaders and profit leaders. It’s probably more difficult in the nonprofit arena. How we do anything is how we do everything. I have found in the coaching clinic I have developed over the years with my corporate leaders—I do it with my teams who have teams under them—then we have a debriefing, and they’ll say, “I worked these listening things with my clients, and they liked it.” They were able to provide more data when I listened than when I talked. One guy said, “Oh, my wife really liked this when I tried it at home.” Leadership is multi-faceted, but the top of leadership skills and the top of under-utilized leadership skills is listening. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a good reason. Russ, you’re a man with an extensive library. Is that a book you’re aware of?
 Russell: That’s a great book. I have it on Kindle with Audible. I forgot about that. It’s in my library. Kindle has been very bad for my checking account. I compile stuff much faster than I read it. I read that book maybe about a year or a year and a half ago. I have it on Audible. It’s something I need to revisit.
 This was the thing I was thinking. The best leaders are lifelong learners. They always got a book in their hand. They find a way to do things. They use tools like Blinkist.com, which is a service of book summaries. They have Blinks that are 12-16 minutes long, where they summarize a book and give you all of the points. You can download the points that you get in a Word document on your Kindle.
 The point is really it’s this continuous learning. Some people have an interest in that. Those are people you really want to look for. They may not have all the knowledge you want them to have, but if you can find one of these people that just has that addiction, passion, whatever you want to call it for learning and improving themselves, that’s really what I have considered to be the third step to building a high-performance nonprofit. Staying on track, measuring everything you do, continuous improvement. What better way for an organization to improve than to have your people improve? As they do more, you become more.
 Scot: Russell, do you find that’s even more important in the nonprofit world from a hiring perspective? Maybe finding those folks that are the lifelong learners that thrive on picking up new skills and new knowledge and applying it to their nonprofit world versus coming in with X number of years of pertinent experience.
 Russell: The way that I view it, and it really doesn’t matter what sort of organization you’re running, is it’s great to have people that have a high level of skill and a lot of knowledge. But you get somebody that comes in and tells me, “Well, I know everything you need to know. I’m going to be checking to make sure my wallet is still in my pocket.”
 Hugh: That reminds me.
 Russell: Hugh would never do that. He will admit to knowing a thing or two about a thing or two like me, but this everything, no. The people to help you get the results dig that talent out of you because my business model is you are more than meets the eye. I use that in my relation to other people because they got a lot of juice already there. They’re already working with a certain audience, and it’s kind of like they know what they’re trying to get at. Sometimes we have to get the ideas out of people. I’ve got a great guy, Darrell Stern, who I did a Stern Storming session with. He says, “You got a lot of content, but this is a mess. We got to pull all of this together.” He is helping me do that.
 Hugh: He can help you clean that up.
 Russell: The genius is all there; it’s just pulling it all together and asking the right questions.
 Hugh: Notice he said learnin’. That’s Southern, Russ. You had a comment here.
 Scot: What you’re saying just totally aligns with how I think about engagement, as we started our conversation today. Especially in the nonprofit world, there are three ways or three avenues to really let people flourish, like you’re saying. If we can find the right people that we can unlock their potential in a nonprofit leadership role, it’s about making sure that we find the people that their heart, or their emotion, is aligned with the mission and the vision of the nonprofit that we’re working in. Do they get juiced up and jazzed up about doing this work in this nonprofit field? I’m working with a young lady now that did fantastic marketing efforts for a chapter of a nonprofit that is a national nonprofit, very large. She just made a move recently within the last year to a small nonprofit in town that has to do with the arts. You can tell just by looking at her face and talking to her that she is so jazzed up. She loved her old job, but she is so jazzed up about working for this arts academy that nothing is going to stop her from getting to work and giving it 110% every day. Her heart is engaged with the organization and the work she is doing.
 The other aspect is how do you get the best out of people’s minds? No one brain in the room is as smart as everyone in the room. How do you create as a nonprofit leader a culture where everyone’s input is valued? We get the best of the diversity of thought from everyone on the team, no matter what our role happens to be in the organization. Engage my heart, engage my head, engage my brain, and allow me, no matter what my role or responsibility, to flourish and to provide my ideas on how we can serve our customer, our community needs.
 Lastly, let me roll up my sleeves and do it again, a nice broad job description where I can help out in a lot of different ways. Now that you got my ideas, let me loose and let me go do it. I think that’s one of the things that really comes down to, especially in the nonprofit world, how we engage our workforce is engaging their hearts, engaging their heads and their minds, and engaging their hands. That comes from another great book I can reference that I have used in the past around this. It’s a book by Julie, and I don’t know the pronunciation of her last name. It’s Gebauer. And Don Lowman. They have come up with a book called Closing the Engagement Gap. They talk about these three elements of engagement with your heart, your head, and your hands. I found it to be a terrific resource. I found it to be true. People generally don’t wake up on a Monday morning going, “I wonder how I can sluff off today and not engage at work.” They are looking to have a good day, to have a good week. Do that by providing opportunities.
 Like you were saying, know your people. Know what makes them tick. Let them loose.
 Hugh: What we know as a conductor is the orchestra or choir gives you what they see. We influence them. It’s a reflection of the leader. As you’re talking about that, part of the work that you and Russ and I do with these nonprofit leaders is a work of encouragement and empowerment for them to then be the influencer. The burnout rate is 45%, and 75% of nonprofit leaders are looking at the exit door because they want to get out. There are things that we do as leaders that have negative consequences. Part of this we own. Part of what we do, Russ and Hugh and Scot, Scot with one “t,” he is saving up for the other “t.”
 Scot: It’s on layaway.
 Hugh: Scot would be my heritage. I’m a Scot. Part of what we do is encourage leaders to come out of their, I guess it’s blind spots. We are trapped in, This is how we do things, when really it’s not how we do things. Speak to that a minute. How do we work as a catalyst for leaders to rethink how they lead, to reinvent themselves, to build their capacity to get past some of those barriers?
 Scot: I think personally my experience is, and Russell, you touched on this before, is it’s being willing to be flexible and using our ears and our mouth in that ratio. If I truly am going to approach the world as a servant leader, I am here to serve not only my customer, but I am here to serve my team. It’s a little bit easier for me to slow down and listen to others’ ideas and to see, especially bringing in talent from outside the organization that might be able to look at things with a fresh lens. If I am a strong Dominant leader, not that I can’t listen and get ideas from others, it’s just going to take a little more energy for me to do that. I am going to have to consciously and purposefully slow down and listen, and really that is where maybe we can use some other people to facilitate us through that process, to say, “All right. I know the ideas I have in my head. I want to make sure I pull the team into this discussion. So maybe I need to have a third party or someone on my team facilitate that session to get ideas from others, whether it’s something as simple as writing on Post-It notes and slapping them up on a wall or other ways.”
 That is the one of the things I found in some nonprofits is that the leader has been there a while, they can be ingrained in how things have always been done. It takes a strong leader to take a step back, to say, “All right, what are some of the potential improvements that you guys see on a daily basis?”
 Part of my background was a GE Six Sigma Master black belt. I am an HR guy. I am not a statistics guy. Even going through some of those learnings with Six Sigma made the little bit of hair I had on the back of my neck stand up and give me the chills sometimes. It was good learning. I pushed myself forward. Became a master black belt within the organization. I got to coach a lot of process improvement projects and change leadership projects. One of the things that I found is that if you allow the people that are working on the process every day to then share in the process of continuous improvement like you were talking about before, that is the kicker. If you create, again creating the environment where people feel safe to go, “This could be done better.”
 The way I always approach Six Sigma process and work was talking with the front line associates and asking them what are the headaches that get in the way of you having a good day? Where does the process break down? Where is there rework? Where are there delays? Where is the communication breakdown between our donors and us? Where is the breakdown in communication between community efforts, what we’re doing and the community leadership? Everything we do is a process in one way or another. How do we allow the people that are doing the work every day to give us the feedback on where things can get better? What I found is they are open to that instead of, “You need to fix X, Y, and Z,” “Where are your headaches?” Let’s allow them to get rid of their headaches and support them in getting rid of their headaches every single day. That is when the lightbulbs, I worked with GE, it had to be a GE lightbulb, that is when the lightbulbs go off above people’s heads. I get to get rid of my headaches. Thank you. That’s just continuous improvement.
 Hugh: Wow. I like to teach continuing improvement as personal growth. We never stop there. What we bring to the table is a paradigm shift for people. Russ, you got a question brewing. This guy has a lot of answers. He obviously has a lot of in-depth experience. There is a lot. We bring the synergy. SynerVision is the synergy of the common vision. There is a lot of what you say embedded in what we do. It’s the Pull leadership. It’s creating the space for people to function up. We as leaders tend to overfunction, and the reciprocity is underfunctioning for the teams. Often we create the problems ourselves because that’s all we know. We think the boss, which is double SOB spelled backwards, we think the boss who tells-
 Scot: I gotta steal that. I love it.
 Hugh: I stole it. It doesn’t work today. People don’t want to be told what to do, no matter which generation. We want to blame the millennials. I’m a boomer, and I don’t want to be told what to do either. What I was thinking when you were talking is we lead from the authenticity of self, but we respect individuals in the community and their authenticity. We are aligned in the common purpose, the common thread.
 We are hitting on the last quarter of our interview; it’s the last stretch. I want to make sure we hit the major themes. Russ, you’ve been brewing a hard question for our guest. He has a lot of knowledge and experience. What are you thinking you want to ask him?
 Russell: I’m thinking that good leaders build good leaders. What are some of the tools that you give your clients to help them do that or to shift their thinking in that direction?
 Scot: Good. First and foremost, Russell, I think that getting to know your people is absolutely critical. It can be something as simple as what is your favorite candy bar? So that you can leave that on their desk on a Friday afternoon, thanking them for what they did this week. You made a great impact on our organization or our customer or our team. Getting to know them and taking the time to know what their personal aspirations are. Development and advancement can mean different things to different people. I may want to stay in my current role and go deeper and deeper and deeper. Maybe I am looking to go to some conferences this year, or maybe I am looking to speak on a panel discussion, or maybe I am looking to do some research on a white paper and develop a white paper on a topic that is important to our organization or industry. I have to get to know that person to understand what development and developing them as a leader looks like.
 Secondly, I have to look for some opportunities. If I am a higher C in my DISC style, conscientious, always looking at things from a quality and accuracy perspective, sometimes high C’s will struggle with delegating responsibilities to others and growing other people around them. Hugh, help me out here. If you want it done right?
 Hugh: Do it yourself.
 Scot: That can be a struggle for delegation and growing other people. If I am not going to let go of something, how am I going to let you do it and develop?
 Hugh: That’s the hardest thing I see for leaders to do. We have an idea, especially founders of nonprofits, of, This is the way it’s supposed to go, so I am going to do it. We alienate people because we haven’t given them the chance to use their passion. That’s why they are here.
 Scot: Exactly.
 Hugh: We have this other fallacy as nonprofit leaders that we don’t want to ask too much of volunteers. That’s why they are there. Ask them. They will tell you if they can do it or not. But in delegation, you’re right. That is so hard. That is so hard. I teach it. You teach it. I bet it’s hard for you, too. We have this passion for it; however, we are robbing a volunteer of an opportunity to connect their passion and be a cheerleader for what we’re doing. That was pretty good, Russ.
 Russell: The other thing. I have a question that I would put into a leader’s head that might come from that place. It’s ask yourself: How can I get more done and get it done better so that it’s less work for me but we improve? How can I make this all better and have to not work as hard to make it better?
 Scot: Absolutely. One of the things to get to that point is I talk to managers when I’m coaching them and I say, “If you have a magic wand, what would be three things you would wave your magic wand to get off your desk right now today? Boom. Done. Don’t do it anymore.” They have those ideas in the back of their minds. How can you have someone else? First of all, does it have to get done? If it does, great, but who else can do it? How can that be a growth opportunity for someone else in your organization? Be it a volunteer or be it someone on the staff or someone who is looking to move up in the organization. Looking at everything that’s on my plate, how can I use what I’m doing now to develop someone else in the organization? That’s a great way to inspire people, a great way to involve people, a great way to become more effective as a leader.
 There is another book by a guy with the name of Scott Eblin. He has two T’s in his name. He is full-fledged Scott. Scott Eblin. The book is called The Next Level. What Eblin talks about is as you are moving up in the organization, and it can be micro-steps or macro-steps, but as you are moving up in the organization, what are those things you need to let go of? High D’s struggle with that. High S’s struggle with that because a high S likes to be an expert in what they do and focus on doing one or two things but do them well. High C’s really struggle with that. How do you not only develop yourself, but develop others in your organization as you are moving up through the different levels?
 Hugh: We as a conductor know that we are only as good as the people around us. It’s about creating the space for people to function at a higher level. We do shoot ourselves in the foot more often. Totally unaware of it.
 Scot: Many cases.
 Hugh: Conflict is going to happen. It’s the sign of energy. We don’t need to make it worse. We don’t need to make it destructive. Sometimes we do as leaders by our lack of clarity or inconsistency in directions and overfunctioning do set up some conflict. Then we don’t know what to do about it. We ignore it and it gets worse.
 Scot: I would have- When I was internal, now I help people from an external perspective. When I was internal, I would get a lot of managers calling me for team building. “Scot, please come help us do some team building. We are just not working right.” Russell and Hugh, you have probably come across this model before, but maybe other leaders haven’t heard of it yet. It’s called GRPI.
 The G is Goals. Do we have clarity and agreement on what the goals are? It’s around clarity and agreement.
 The R is around the Roles. Do we have the right roles? Do we have the right organizational structure set up? Is there role clarity between what we are doing to reach those goals? I am not supposed to do that. Hugh is supposed to do that. Hugh is saying that is Russell’s job. Now all of a sudden, we have this ehh going on on the team.
 P is around Process. Do we have the right processes in place? Russell, I don’t know if you have found this to be true, but I have always found there are three versions of every process map. There is the current process map that we have. There is the real process, as it really works, other than what’s going on in the process map. Then there is the third version, which is the future version of how it should ideally work. Do we have our ducks in a row? Are we heading toward that third version of the process map? Clarity and agreement on the goals, the roles, and the processes.
 I in GRPI is the interpersonal Issues. What I find is that teams are not functioning well when we have that lack of clarity around the goals, the roles, and the process. It’s almost like a gift with purchase. You get something else. If you don’t have clarity and agreement on goals, roles, and process, you will automatically have interpersonal issues. And that’s what matters. You always come to us and say you need team building. You don’t need team building. You need to clear up goals, roles, and process.
 Hugh: Sometimes team building is a game that is a copout. Connect them to something substantial.
 What is it that a frustrated nonprofit leader needs to know? What would be your tip for that leader? Not just to go to the next step, but to the top of the rungs. You get the parting thought.
 Scot, this has been a lot of good information today. I am going to give you the last- What do you want to leave people with?
 Scot: I would say as a closing thought today as a nonprofit leader, focus on getting a GRPI. We say get a grip. Get a GRPI. That is the one thing that can truly bring you and your team to a higher level. Make sure that you and the whole team have clarity on what your goals are for the year. People always say, “Focus on SMART goals.” I found that there is a gentleman out there, Brendon Bouchard. Bouchard often talks about making sure that we have DUMB goals as well. DUMB starts with D. D is all about your Dream. What is the dream of your nonprofit? Why are you here, your mission and your vision? Start with the dream.
 Make sure that people understand what those goals are. Listen to, engage people. Know them and grow them and engage them in the process so that they can help you determine the best processes and where they can be improved and what the right goals are. Who should be doing what in the organization? There is always an opportunity to review those job descriptions and make them work. What should that job look like 12 months from now, 24 months from now as your nonprofit organization continues to evolve?
 Making sure you have the right team in the organization. If you don’t have the right talent, you’re not doing yourself a favor, you’re not doing that person in the wrong slot a favor. Work with your local HR professionals that can help you on that side of the equation. Get the right people in your organization that have the heart and the passion to do the work that you’re doing. Empower them to figure out what the right roles and processes are to reach your goal.
 Hugh: That is good stuff. That is good stuff. Russ, thanks for good stuff today. Scot, thanks for sharing your wisdom with us on The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Scot: It’s been a pleasure.
  
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      <pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7dbc5024-b329-11eb-9f0f-7734b20e3fd1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leading in Today's Nonprofit</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary> 
 Transcript of Interview with Scot McCarthy
 Hugh Ballou: It’s Hugh Ballou. It’s another great version of The Nonprofit Exchange. We are four years into this, Russell. What do you think of that?
 Russell Dennis: I think the next six we are going to blow the lid off of this thing.
 Hugh: You blow the lid off every week.
 Russell: And grow and grow and grow.
 Hugh: We have a mild-mannered man here in Lynchburg. He has got a lot under the hood. He’s got a little hair there. He hasn’t quite reached your perfect head status yet. Scot McCarthy is a man I met at the business alliance here. We have some mutual friends here. He has referred me to folks, and I’ve referred him to folks. I’ve determined that he has some really unique expertise that is applicable for these nonprofits that we’re talking to. We try to give them really good sound business principles because we are actually operating a tax-exempt business with a lot of rules for the IRS. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange, Scot.
 Scot McCarthy: Thank you. Good to be here.
 Hugh: Tell us a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your background, and what is it that you say that you do.
 Scot: My son doesn’t believe me, but years ago I had a full head of hair. He looks at this today and says, “No, that’s my future.” It’s kind of funny. I found a couple pictures of myself in high school where he is today. I had a nice, big, thick head of hair just like he has today, and it was sad that I kind of saw the soul sucked right out of his body. I’m trying to help my son recover.
 But in the meantime, what I have been doing with my life is working in the corporate world, the nonprofit world, and everywhere in between for the last 20 years or so on organizational development and organizational effectiveness roles.  I have a lot of time with individual teams and leadership development programs. I find that there is a nice translation between what we try to do in the for-profit world with our human resources to deliver for our customers and in reality we do the same thing in the nonprofit world. In fact, what I’ve found is that it’s even more important on the human development side in the nonprofit world because we tend not to have a whole lot of headcount to work with to get the job done for our customers and our client base.
 I’ve had a great career about 20-25 years in organizational development work. I have had my own company, Stylewise Partners, for the last three years, and I work with for-profit and nonprofit organizations.
 Hugh: You work regionally, or you work nationally?
 Scot: I work nationally. I do a lot of work for Stylewise Partners regionally, but because I have had such a fortunate network with General Electric and GE Capital and a number of different organizations over my career, I get called by other companies out of Richmond, out of Boston, out of Colorado, and other locations to come help them with organizational development work as well. My work takes me domestically, and in the past, internationally as well.
 Hugh: Awesome. And you and I have similar work, but you do it a little differently in a different segment. We have a passion for enabling and empowering and encouraging nonprofit leaders. One of our guests a few weeks ago, Romal Tune, said we have a for-profit business, but this one is a for-purpose business. I really liked it.
 What are we going to talk about today?
 Scot: Today, what I thought we’d touch on is seeing the fact that nonprofits have to really get the most out of their human resources, I wanted to talk a little bit about engagement. How do you help folks in what can sometimes be a stressful or resource-restricted environment to still come in with their passion on fire and get the most out of everybody on a daily basis in the nonprofit world? I think employee engagement is the topic that is on my mind today.
 Hugh: We have purposeful organizations, and it’s important to have purposeful people do purposeful work. That is a good continuity piece. HR. Talk a little bit about HR. A lot of charities don’t even think about it. You said HR, didn’t you?
 Scot: Yeah.  
 Hugh: I heard that. By the way, Russ, we’re having a coffee. Some of my freshly roasted espresso beans with a little latte. If we could, we would share it with you, but we can’t.
 Russell: Just don’t have too much of it. I don’t want you guys to look like a pair of operators before the broadcast ends.
 Hugh: That’s it. We want to keep it lively. Talk about HR. Do you work with HR directors in for-profits and for-purpose organizations?
 Scot: Yes, absolutely. In fact, my career was, I kind of think of HR as two legs of a stool or two pieces of the pie. There is the policies and procedures and regulatory side of human resources, and what we can and can’t do, and where we need to make sure that we remain compliant. Then there is the human development side of HR. That’s really where I focused in my career. Honestly, I just never found my passion around the policies and procedures and that side of HR. Absolutely critically important. I think that’s something that nonprofits really can take advantage of HR leaders in their communities where they can gain that expertise. I have worked for HR leaders in nonprofit health care and in for-profit financial services that were absolutely phenomenal, and both offered their services continually to nonprofits in the area to help make sure that they were taking care of all the crossing of the T’s and the dotting of the I’s.
 Hugh: That is so important. Russell, in your experience working with a number of nonprofits, is there a gap in competency in this area of human resources?
 Russell: Talking to people to really find out what they need is important. It begins with finding out what’s in it for them, whether you’re asking a volunteer or someone on your board or bringing them in to work: What are your motivations? You don’t always have a lot of money to work with, so you will have to find some of those other motivations, whether it’s building your personal network or getting some visibility through something they create or through some growth opportunities. Are they students? Are they padding their resumes? Are they seniors looking for a way to make a difference? It really boils down to effective relationships and having people connect with you on that level.  
 Hugh: And you mentioned the two sides of HR. I see this more and more. Sometimes they are dividing the work. There is a person that does culture. It’s personal growth. How do we nurture this culture development? That is my passion. The other side, you have the legal compliance piece, to keep you out of trouble, which is important. Those two really need to work together because we can do culture creation, which empowers the compliance piece. If people function at a higher level, not only are they more fulfilled personally, but their work is more efficient, more effective.
 Scot: Absolutely. A lot of times, I really enjoy helping organizations, especially nonprofits, focus on what are the behaviors that make up that culture? What is our mission and vision? What are we here to do to deliver in the marketplace and in the community? What are the key behaviors that we need from our people to deliver on that mission and vision? Where I see that tie coming in is that when people are not displaying the right behavior, the right motives, the right purpose, that’s when we get into trouble with the compliance issues. That’s when people are bending the rules a little bit too far and going to the point of breaking them versus remaining compliant and again crossing all our T’s and dotting all our I’s.
 Hugh: In talking about behaviors, there are tools that we can take instruments that we can do, like DISC or Myers-Briggs or some of those tools. Do you use some of those tools? What is the benefit in using any of those instruments?
 Scot: Absolutely. I am a strong believer from an internal perspective on Myers-Briggs, what my own personal preference is for how I integrate with the world and how I interact with the world. From a visible behavior perspective, I think Insights is a tremendous tool. I think DISC is a tremendous tool. I use DISC all the time from an individual coaching perspective, from a leadership coaching perspective, but then as an organizational culture and team development perspective as well. I think it’s important. We have to, especially in a nonprofit, where the teams are typically smaller, and we need to be more flexible in how we work with each other during the day to be able to understand why Scot approaches a certain task or certain responsibility differently than Hugh does differently than Russell does. Not to necessarily say I am right, you are wrong, or you are right and I am wrong. But just know that this is how Hugh approaches things, this is the strength he has, this is the benefit of his thought process that he can bring to the organization. How do we get the best out of Russell? How do we get the best out of Scot? How do we get the best out of Sally and Jane and really come together to be a strong cohesive team?
 Hugh: It’s good when you go through that as a staff together. I did Myers-Briggs several iterations with different church staffs. I remember one in Florida where we had been away for a three-day retreat. Part of one of the days was Myers-Briggs and the understanding of what it means and how introverts and extroverts relate to each other. I go in the choir and get them on the edge of their seats and say, “Guess what? I found out something about myself!” “Okay, what?” “I’m an extrovert!” They went, “Boo, hiss. We know that.”
 Scot: That was easily read, I can imagine.
 Hugh: I’m like way over. The bar was over. ENFJ. Yeah, you could figure that one out.
 Scot: Get stuff done.
 Hugh: Make a decision. But I also, the liabilities of that, J’s make a decision without enough information. P’s, Perceiving, need more information, but they wait too long, so having the relationship, which is the foundation of leadership, I think, having the relationship of those two balance each other out. Does DISC offer different kinds of elements than Myers-Briggs? I think a lot of people know Myers-Briggs or know about it.
 Scot: Yeah, DISC is another acronym. We don’t need another acronym in life, but here it is. D is around Dominance, or how do I overcome obstacles to get things done? It’s about challenging the status quo. It’s about gathering information from different pieces, making a quick decision, and moving forward.
 I is around Influence or relationships. I is the human side of things. I’s come into the office on Monday morning and check in with everybody, saying, “How is the weekend? How did the kids do on their sports teams? Did you go to church? Did you like that song that we did?” It’s all around the interactions. Meanwhile, the D’s are going, “Get to work. Come on. Let’s go.”
 The S is around Steadiness, which is around the piece of, “Do I enjoy a nice steady pace in my life?” like opening up a box to put up a ceiling fan in the house. A high steadiness person would open up the box carefully and take the inventory, go step one, step two, step three, step four, and eventually put up a ceiling fan. A non-steadiness person would rip the box open and just start putting stuff together. It’s neither here nor there in terms of what’s right and what’s wrong; it’s just how you go about life. Steadiness is around the pace of life. I happen to be a higher steadiness person. If my wife, who I love dearly, comes to me on a Saturday morning and says, “Can you get this done today?” it will get me crazy because I already have my Saturday scheduled out. Sometimes, S’s have trouble with priorities because if I have my list of 10 things I am doing on that Saturday, if the kitchen is on fire and the wife asks me to put the fire out, it is #11 on my list. I have already got my top 10.
 Hugh: Funny.
 Scot: That’s a little bit about high steadiness. C is around Conscientiousness. How do we handle rules and procedures set by others? Do we follow the rules? Or is it more of a Pirates of the Caribbean thing where the rules are just guidelines?
 So that’s a little bit about DISC. It’s very visible. The thing I like about DISC is you can see if someone is a rule-follower or a rule-breaker. You can see if someone has a preference for a step one, step two, step three approach to the world or if they like to fight fires. I have a friend of mine who is an emergency, ED, doctor in the hospital. Step one, step two, step three kind of applies, but he loves not knowing what is coming in the door next. If he was put into a cubicle and said to balance these T sheets with debits and credits, it would drive him crazy. All of that comes into play in the world of nonprofit in terms of how well leaders know their people and what their people are best at and how you can best utilize those resources that you have on your team.
 DISC is a very effective tool to be able not only to have your team know each other better, understand each other better, come together as a team, but for the leader to have that information to go, “Ah, Hugh is the guy who will make sure that we are doing things with quality and accuracy. Jane is the one who is going to push us to make that decision when we have enough data and push us forward. So-and-so is the people person. They will be great in marketing these new events we have coming up.” It’s a tool that you can use to really maximize the effectiveness of your team.
 Hugh: In its best sense. There is a weakness side, too. I got a couple of follow-up questions. It helps you discover yourself and your own style. Being authentic as a leader is part of what Russ and I teach. It’s also important to know that when you are talking to your donors. You said across the desk, bottom line person, get to the point, or do you sit at the corner of your desk, talk about family? Can you tell about a person? You’re not going to tell them to take a profile and then proceed from the DISC profile. Can you get to know them before you present so you know where they fit?
 Scot: Yeah, I think so. In some of my DISC presentations, I have a slide that gets to that in terms of: If people are focusing on When, When is it going to be done? When do we have to have this? The decisions that are being made. That tends to be someone who focuses on the D or the Dominance. It’s time-oriented. We need to do this, make this decision, and move on.
 If they tend to focus on Who, Who needs to be involved? Who do we need to communicate with? Who do we need to gain information from? Might be dealing with someone that is a Higher I or Influencer.
 If they talk about process a lot, like what happens first? What happens next? What happens next? What happens next? That tends to be high steadiness because they are so process-oriented.
 If they are focusing on the rules and regulations and they are trying to always focus on delivering with quality and accuracy, that tends to be highly Conscientious. You can almost pick up DISC characteristics and preferences based on what people tend to focus on and what they are asking us about.
 Hugh: We need to know what people are presenting to and how they receive information and how we are going to relate to them.
 There is also a negative side. I’ve seen people with Myers-Briggs and DISC try to cover up their weaknesses by saying, “This is my profile, so get over it.” They use it as an excuse because they really haven’t developed the relationships and accountabilities with people or gotten to know the usage of it well. Do you want to speak to that side? How do we prevent that from being a problem?
 Scot: I think that’s really important. I think the other learning that we need to bring in there is maybe a little bit from Goleman in terms of emotional intelligence and social intelligence. We can always capitalize on our strengths, and I do encourage people to do that. Recognize that a high D brain brings certain characteristics and certain benefits to the party. No matter what our style is, no matter our blend of Myers-Briggs or DISC or any other assessment, we are going to have things that enable us to be successful. We are going to have characteristics that are potential barriers. To say, “Well, this is here I am. Tough. Deal with it,” we are cutting ourselves short in terms of our potential effectiveness.
 I always go after the concept of flexing my style. Just like you’re saying, if I am dealing with a donor, they are a high D. They just want the bare bones; what’s my money going to go to? What is the benefit of me donating to this cause? When am I going to start seeing the benefits? Then I want to make sure I flex my style. Even if I’m not a high D, I am going to flex my style to that person so I can live in their world and talk their language for a little bit. If I am working with a high I, and I just go in with the facts and figures, I am going to seem very cold to that donor. I am going to need to relate to their stories and talk about the human benefits and the human stories behind this. I think you’re selling, anyone that says, “Well, this is my style, and that’s all there is to it,” they are selling themselves short. They can be much more effective if they capitalize on their strengths but also learn to flex toward the style of others to foster that relationship. That is where the social intelligence comes into play. My emotional intelligence, I can manage and understand my own emotions, but to be able to work effectively with you or with others, I have to understand where you’re coming from, what’s important to you, and how can I deliver some of that for you so that you can then in turn help me deliver what I want to deliver?
 Hugh: I’m going to throw it to Russ because he is good at this flex. He has to flex every week at 2:00 when I show up. He has to accommodate my age and mental condition very often.
 Scot: Oh, look at him.
 Hugh: He thought he was going to get by without me pulling that card.
 Russell: We’re not even halfway through the broadcast, and we have fallen onto that again. You know, we’re going to get that. Flexibility is really the key. When you’re building relationships, you develop a little bit of a compass for that sort of thing over time. The conversations we have really in the nonprofit world is about what’s important to the person we’re talking to. We can kind of get a gauge and a feel for that. It’s really going with the flow because you’re relating to each person individually. There is no good one-size-fits-all formula for dealing with people, even when we have a lot of wonderful stuff that we talked about.
 Another thing we haven’t really talked about is the Strengths Finder. There was another inventory I found called an IPIP. It was really interesting. I have to look for that. That was a battery that took about a half hour. Told me a lot of things about whether I was altruistic, and it had about eight or ten other areas measuring emotionally and mentally. These are ways to learn about yourself. One thing I did for myself was to actually email and send letters to some people who know me really well to find out what they thought I did well and where I could use a little bit of help. Other people are a lot more, that get used to dealing with us, they can find our superpowers and our kryptonite and lay it out. Sometimes we are blind to that stuff. We don’t even know what we know, and we don’t know what we don’t know. Of course, if I just had a blanket age/mental condition or something like that, that’s not going to work with new people. The people who have known you for a while are just going to go, “Oh no, not again.”
 Hugh: That’s an excuse. As you’re bringing that up, Russ, I’m thinking there is a comradery/collaboration/encouragement that sometimes happens around people’s learning styles. I hope you got some affirmations from the people you emailed, I’m sure you did, about your skills and your talents and your presence in the world. You got some good things, I’m sure.
 Russell: Well, yeah, but there were a couple that were watching this show. They said for the age that you are, your mental condition ought to be a little better. I won’t say which people said that. This other battery I was talking about, I just had that in front of me. It’s called an IPIP Ennionarrative. I found this. It was developed by a gentleman at Penn State University. The areas it measures are Extroversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, Neuroticism (meaning are you neurotic), and Openness. It’s really interesting. It’s worth taking a little bit of time. It can be a little wordy. I had to go through it and pull some stuff out of the summary. It’s really good.  
 Hugh: Seems like a song.
 Russell: I will grab the URL and drop it in there.
 Hugh: Do you have a question brewing for our guest today?
 Russell: I do. One of the things I was thinking about was when you walk into a business and you are starting to talk to people about things that matter to them, why is it important to find out what people want to get better at? Is that a currency you’re finding that is left on the table? People walk in, and they walk away because they don’t think there’s any chance for them to grow.
 Scot: Give me a little bit more on that, Russ. In terms of, are you thinking about organizational growth? Are you thinking about personal growth?
 Russell: I’m thinking about personal growth because you can’t always write a bigger check. People may or may not say out loud that what they want to do is gain more of a skillset. What sort of questions do you ask to gauge whether or not that something that is really important to them?  
 Scot: I tend to do as much homework up front as I can in terms of learning the person’s organization and even learning about the person themselves. Websites like LinkedIn and others are very useful to do some homework ahead of time. But then when we’re meeting, especially for the first time, there was a great book, and I don’t know if I have it with me today or not. There is a great coaching book that I found has a very strong reference. I’ll have to grab the title for you. It is something along the lines of Say Less, Ask More Questions, and Change the Way You Lead the Rest of Your Life. I might have it in my briefcase off to the side here because I was just using it with a client.
 The approach in that book is really just spending some time with someone and finding out what’s going on in their life right now. Is it content- or project-specific? Is it people issues, people challenges, human interactions? Or is it any type of a pattern within their organization? So what’s really happening in their world that they would like to see some more success around? Coaching them along the lines of, “All right, so what have we tried so far? What’s keeping you up at night about this particular topic?” Start to get them to think about those challenges that they’re having and addressing them in a safe environment. Hugh, you do a lot of coaching. To me, the real kicker is creating a safe environment for people to feel vulnerable with you a little bit or safe enough to feel vulnerable to say, “This particular aspect of my nonprofit or my working with the board or this one board member I’m having an issue with,” just getting them comfortable enough to share that with you so that you can ask them some more questions or get them thinking about a more productive approach. What have you found there?
 Hugh: Absolutely. As you’re talking, it’s not only that I coach the leader, but I coach the leader on coaching. I don’t know who said this, but they said that coaching is 90% listening, and the other 10% is mostly listening. I find that leaders primarily don’t know the skills they need to lead. They think it’s push to do this, and the conductor knows it’s pull. Here’s where it’s going. You want to hold that up.
 Scot: Can I share this?
 Hugh: We’ll put it in the podcast notes.
 Scot: One of the most useful coaching resources. I have kind of outlined this book. I share it with different classes that I go to. It’s The Coaching Habit: Say Less, Ask More &amp; Change the Way You Lead Forever by Michael Stanier. Really useful. Just like seven or eight core questions that you help the other person think about. I have actually used this with nonprofit leaders. I have used it with team leaders. I have actually used it with my kids, getting them to think about an issue that is challenging them, whether it is around an academic subject, a relationship with someone in school.
 Hugh: It’s really universal principles.
 Scot: It absolutely is. The first question, here is my little outline of the book itself. The first question it gets you to think about: Hugh, in relationship to this topic we’re talking about, what’s on your mind? It starts out as broad as that. From there, you figure out if it’s a content issue, a people issue, a pattern issue. From there, take them down the coaching path.
 Hugh: Start easy. How many sleeves in the shirt? Build a confidence and rapport. Underneath leadership is relationship. You build trust and relationship before you can really impact anybody. Actually you said you use this with your corporate leaders and profit leaders. It’s probably more difficult in the nonprofit arena. How we do anything is how we do everything. I have found in the coaching clinic I have developed over the years with my corporate leaders—I do it with my teams who have teams under them—then we have a debriefing, and they’ll say, “I worked these listening things with my clients, and they liked it.” They were able to provide more data when I listened than when I talked. One guy said, “Oh, my wife really liked this when I tried it at home.” Leadership is multi-faceted, but the top of leadership skills and the top of under-utilized leadership skills is listening. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a good reason. Russ, you’re a man with an extensive library. Is that a book you’re aware of?
 Russell: That’s a great book. I have it on Kindle with Audible. I forgot about that. It’s in my library. Kindle has been very bad for my checking account. I compile stuff much faster than I read it. I read that book maybe about a year or a year and a half ago. I have it on Audible. It’s something I need to revisit.
 This was the thing I was thinking. The best leaders are lifelong learners. They always got a book in their hand. They find a way to do things. They use tools like Blinkist.com, which is a service of book summaries. They have Blinks that are 12-16 minutes long, where they summarize a book and give you all of the points. You can download the points that you get in a Word document on your Kindle.
 The point is really it’s this continuous learning. Some people have an interest in that. Those are people you really want to look for. They may not have all the knowledge you want them to have, but if you can find one of these people that just has that addiction, passion, whatever you want to call it for learning and improving themselves, that’s really what I have considered to be the third step to building a high-performance nonprofit. Staying on track, measuring everything you do, continuous improvement. What better way for an organization to improve than to have your people improve? As they do more, you become more.
 Scot: Russell, do you find that’s even more important in the nonprofit world from a hiring perspective? Maybe finding those folks that are the lifelong learners that thrive on picking up new skills and new knowledge and applying it to their nonprofit world versus coming in with X number of years of pertinent experience.
 Russell: The way that I view it, and it really doesn’t matter what sort of organization you’re running, is it’s great to have people that have a high level of skill and a lot of knowledge. But you get somebody that comes in and tells me, “Well, I know everything you need to know. I’m going to be checking to make sure my wallet is still in my pocket.”
 Hugh: That reminds me.
 Russell: Hugh would never do that. He will admit to knowing a thing or two about a thing or two like me, but this everything, no. The people to help you get the results dig that talent out of you because my business model is you are more than meets the eye. I use that in my relation to other people because they got a lot of juice already there. They’re already working with a certain audience, and it’s kind of like they know what they’re trying to get at. Sometimes we have to get the ideas out of people. I’ve got a great guy, Darrell Stern, who I did a Stern Storming session with. He says, “You got a lot of content, but this is a mess. We got to pull all of this together.” He is helping me do that.
 Hugh: He can help you clean that up.
 Russell: The genius is all there; it’s just pulling it all together and asking the right questions.
 Hugh: Notice he said learnin’. That’s Southern, Russ. You had a comment here.
 Scot: What you’re saying just totally aligns with how I think about engagement, as we started our conversation today. Especially in the nonprofit world, there are three ways or three avenues to really let people flourish, like you’re saying. If we can find the right people that we can unlock their potential in a nonprofit leadership role, it’s about making sure that we find the people that their heart, or their emotion, is aligned with the mission and the vision of the nonprofit that we’re working in. Do they get juiced up and jazzed up about doing this work in this nonprofit field? I’m working with a young lady now that did fantastic marketing efforts for a chapter of a nonprofit that is a national nonprofit, very large. She just made a move recently within the last year to a small nonprofit in town that has to do with the arts. You can tell just by looking at her face and talking to her that she is so jazzed up. She loved her old job, but she is so jazzed up about working for this arts academy that nothing is going to stop her from getting to work and giving it 110% every day. Her heart is engaged with the organization and the work she is doing.
 The other aspect is how do you get the best out of people’s minds? No one brain in the room is as smart as everyone in the room. How do you create as a nonprofit leader a culture where everyone’s input is valued? We get the best of the diversity of thought from everyone on the team, no matter what our role happens to be in the organization. Engage my heart, engage my head, engage my brain, and allow me, no matter what my role or responsibility, to flourish and to provide my ideas on how we can serve our customer, our community needs.
 Lastly, let me roll up my sleeves and do it again, a nice broad job description where I can help out in a lot of different ways. Now that you got my ideas, let me loose and let me go do it. I think that’s one of the things that really comes down to, especially in the nonprofit world, how we engage our workforce is engaging their hearts, engaging their heads and their minds, and engaging their hands. That comes from another great book I can reference that I have used in the past around this. It’s a book by Julie, and I don’t know the pronunciation of her last name. It’s Gebauer. And Don Lowman. They have come up with a book called Closing the Engagement Gap. They talk about these three elements of engagement with your heart, your head, and your hands. I found it to be a terrific resource. I found it to be true. People generally don’t wake up on a Monday morning going, “I wonder how I can sluff off today and not engage at work.” They are looking to have a good day, to have a good week. Do that by providing opportunities.
 Like you were saying, know your people. Know what makes them tick. Let them loose.
 Hugh: What we know as a conductor is the orchestra or choir gives you what they see. We influence them. It’s a reflection of the leader. As you’re talking about that, part of the work that you and Russ and I do with these nonprofit leaders is a work of encouragement and empowerment for them to then be the influencer. The burnout rate is 45%, and 75% of nonprofit leaders are looking at the exit door because they want to get out. There are things that we do as leaders that have negative consequences. Part of this we own. Part of what we do, Russ and Hugh and Scot, Scot with one “t,” he is saving up for the other “t.”
 Scot: It’s on layaway.
 Hugh: Scot would be my heritage. I’m a Scot. Part of what we do is encourage leaders to come out of their, I guess it’s blind spots. We are trapped in, This is how we do things, when really it’s not how we do things. Speak to that a minute. How do we work as a catalyst for leaders to rethink how they lead, to reinvent themselves, to build their capacity to get past some of those barriers?
 Scot: I think personally my experience is, and Russell, you touched on this before, is it’s being willing to be flexible and using our ears and our mouth in that ratio. If I truly am going to approach the world as a servant leader, I am here to serve not only my customer, but I am here to serve my team. It’s a little bit easier for me to slow down and listen to others’ ideas and to see, especially bringing in talent from outside the organization that might be able to look at things with a fresh lens. If I am a strong Dominant leader, not that I can’t listen and get ideas from others, it’s just going to take a little more energy for me to do that. I am going to have to consciously and purposefully slow down and listen, and really that is where maybe we can use some other people to facilitate us through that process, to say, “All right. I know the ideas I have in my head. I want to make sure I pull the team into this discussion. So maybe I need to have a third party or someone on my team facilitate that session to get ideas from others, whether it’s something as simple as writing on Post-It notes and slapping them up on a wall or other ways.”
 That is the one of the things I found in some nonprofits is that the leader has been there a while, they can be ingrained in how things have always been done. It takes a strong leader to take a step back, to say, “All right, what are some of the potential improvements that you guys see on a daily basis?”
 Part of my background was a GE Six Sigma Master black belt. I am an HR guy. I am not a statistics guy. Even going through some of those learnings with Six Sigma made the little bit of hair I had on the back of my neck stand up and give me the chills sometimes. It was good learning. I pushed myself forward. Became a master black belt within the organization. I got to coach a lot of process improvement projects and change leadership projects. One of the things that I found is that if you allow the people that are working on the process every day to then share in the process of continuous improvement like you were talking about before, that is the kicker. If you create, again creating the environment where people feel safe to go, “This could be done better.”
 The way I always approach Six Sigma process and work was talking with the front line associates and asking them what are the headaches that get in the way of you having a good day? Where does the process break down? Where is there rework? Where are there delays? Where is the communication breakdown between our donors and us? Where is the breakdown in communication between community efforts, what we’re doing and the community leadership? Everything we do is a process in one way or another. How do we allow the people that are doing the work every day to give us the feedback on where things can get better? What I found is they are open to that instead of, “You need to fix X, Y, and Z,” “Where are your headaches?” Let’s allow them to get rid of their headaches and support them in getting rid of their headaches every single day. That is when the lightbulbs, I worked with GE, it had to be a GE lightbulb, that is when the lightbulbs go off above people’s heads. I get to get rid of my headaches. Thank you. That’s just continuous improvement.
 Hugh: Wow. I like to teach continuing improvement as personal growth. We never stop there. What we bring to the table is a paradigm shift for people. Russ, you got a question brewing. This guy has a lot of answers. He obviously has a lot of in-depth experience. There is a lot. We bring the synergy. SynerVision is the synergy of the common vision. There is a lot of what you say embedded in what we do. It’s the Pull leadership. It’s creating the space for people to function up. We as leaders tend to overfunction, and the reciprocity is underfunctioning for the teams. Often we create the problems ourselves because that’s all we know. We think the boss, which is double SOB spelled backwards, we think the boss who tells-
 Scot: I gotta steal that. I love it.
 Hugh: I stole it. It doesn’t work today. People don’t want to be told what to do, no matter which generation. We want to blame the millennials. I’m a boomer, and I don’t want to be told what to do either. What I was thinking when you were talking is we lead from the authenticity of self, but we respect individuals in the community and their authenticity. We are aligned in the common purpose, the common thread.
 We are hitting on the last quarter of our interview; it’s the last stretch. I want to make sure we hit the major themes. Russ, you’ve been brewing a hard question for our guest. He has a lot of knowledge and experience. What are you thinking you want to ask him?
 Russell: I’m thinking that good leaders build good leaders. What are some of the tools that you give your clients to help them do that or to shift their thinking in that direction?
 Scot: Good. First and foremost, Russell, I think that getting to know your people is absolutely critical. It can be something as simple as what is your favorite candy bar? So that you can leave that on their desk on a Friday afternoon, thanking them for what they did this week. You made a great impact on our organization or our customer or our team. Getting to know them and taking the time to know what their personal aspirations are. Development and advancement can mean different things to different people. I may want to stay in my current role and go deeper and deeper and deeper. Maybe I am looking to go to some conferences this year, or maybe I am looking to speak on a panel discussion, or maybe I am looking to do some research on a white paper and develop a white paper on a topic that is important to our organization or industry. I have to get to know that person to understand what development and developing them as a leader looks like.
 Secondly, I have to look for some opportunities. If I am a higher C in my DISC style, conscientious, always looking at things from a quality and accuracy perspective, sometimes high C’s will struggle with delegating responsibilities to others and growing other people around them. Hugh, help me out here. If you want it done right?
 Hugh: Do it yourself.
 Scot: That can be a struggle for delegation and growing other people. If I am not going to let go of something, how am I going to let you do it and develop?
 Hugh: That’s the hardest thing I see for leaders to do. We have an idea, especially founders of nonprofits, of, This is the way it’s supposed to go, so I am going to do it. We alienate people because we haven’t given them the chance to use their passion. That’s why they are here.
 Scot: Exactly.
 Hugh: We have this other fallacy as nonprofit leaders that we don’t want to ask too much of volunteers. That’s why they are there. Ask them. They will tell you if they can do it or not. But in delegation, you’re right. That is so hard. That is so hard. I teach it. You teach it. I bet it’s hard for you, too. We have this passion for it; however, we are robbing a volunteer of an opportunity to connect their passion and be a cheerleader for what we’re doing. That was pretty good, Russ.
 Russell: The other thing. I have a question that I would put into a leader’s head that might come from that place. It’s ask yourself: How can I get more done and get it done better so that it’s less work for me but we improve? How can I make this all better and have to not work as hard to make it better?
 Scot: Absolutely. One of the things to get to that point is I talk to managers when I’m coaching them and I say, “If you have a magic wand, what would be three things you would wave your magic wand to get off your desk right now today? Boom. Done. Don’t do it anymore.” They have those ideas in the back of their minds. How can you have someone else? First of all, does it have to get done? If it does, great, but who else can do it? How can that be a growth opportunity for someone else in your organization? Be it a volunteer or be it someone on the staff or someone who is looking to move up in the organization. Looking at everything that’s on my plate, how can I use what I’m doing now to develop someone else in the organization? That’s a great way to inspire people, a great way to involve people, a great way to become more effective as a leader.
 There is another book by a guy with the name of Scott Eblin. He has two T’s in his name. He is full-fledged Scott. Scott Eblin. The book is called The Next Level. What Eblin talks about is as you are moving up in the organization, and it can be micro-steps or macro-steps, but as you are moving up in the organization, what are those things you need to let go of? High D’s struggle with that. High S’s struggle with that because a high S likes to be an expert in what they do and focus on doing one or two things but do them well. High C’s really struggle with that. How do you not only develop yourself, but develop others in your organization as you are moving up through the different levels?
 Hugh: We as a conductor know that we are only as good as the people around us. It’s about creating the space for people to function at a higher level. We do shoot ourselves in the foot more often. Totally unaware of it.
 Scot: Many cases.
 Hugh: Conflict is going to happen. It’s the sign of energy. We don’t need to make it worse. We don’t need to make it destructive. Sometimes we do as leaders by our lack of clarity or inconsistency in directions and overfunctioning do set up some conflict. Then we don’t know what to do about it. We ignore it and it gets worse.
 Scot: I would have- When I was internal, now I help people from an external perspective. When I was internal, I would get a lot of managers calling me for team building. “Scot, please come help us do some team building. We are just not working right.” Russell and Hugh, you have probably come across this model before, but maybe other leaders haven’t heard of it yet. It’s called GRPI.
 The G is Goals. Do we have clarity and agreement on what the goals are? It’s around clarity and agreement.
 The R is around the Roles. Do we have the right roles? Do we have the right organizational structure set up? Is there role clarity between what we are doing to reach those goals? I am not supposed to do that. Hugh is supposed to do that. Hugh is saying that is Russell’s job. Now all of a sudden, we have this ehh going on on the team.
 P is around Process. Do we have the right processes in place? Russell, I don’t know if you have found this to be true, but I have always found there are three versions of every process map. There is the current process map that we have. There is the real process, as it really works, other than what’s going on in the process map. Then there is the third version, which is the future version of how it should ideally work. Do we have our ducks in a row? Are we heading toward that third version of the process map? Clarity and agreement on the goals, the roles, and the processes.
 I in GRPI is the interpersonal Issues. What I find is that teams are not functioning well when we have that lack of clarity around the goals, the roles, and the process. It’s almost like a gift with purchase. You get something else. If you don’t have clarity and agreement on goals, roles, and process, you will automatically have interpersonal issues. And that’s what matters. You always come to us and say you need team building. You don’t need team building. You need to clear up goals, roles, and process.
 Hugh: Sometimes team building is a game that is a copout. Connect them to something substantial.
 What is it that a frustrated nonprofit leader needs to know? What would be your tip for that leader? Not just to go to the next step, but to the top of the rungs. You get the parting thought.
 Scot, this has been a lot of good information today. I am going to give you the last- What do you want to leave people with?
 Scot: I would say as a closing thought today as a nonprofit leader, focus on getting a GRPI. We say get a grip. Get a GRPI. That is the one thing that can truly bring you and your team to a higher level. Make sure that you and the whole team have clarity on what your goals are for the year. People always say, “Focus on SMART goals.” I found that there is a gentleman out there, Brendon Bouchard. Bouchard often talks about making sure that we have DUMB goals as well. DUMB starts with D. D is all about your Dream. What is the dream of your nonprofit? Why are you here, your mission and your vision? Start with the dream.
 Make sure that people understand what those goals are. Listen to, engage people. Know them and grow them and engage them in the process so that they can help you determine the best processes and where they can be improved and what the right goals are. Who should be doing what in the organization? There is always an opportunity to review those job descriptions and make them work. What should that job look like 12 months from now, 24 months from now as your nonprofit organization continues to evolve?
 Making sure you have the right team in the organization. If you don’t have the right talent, you’re not doing yourself a favor, you’re not doing that person in the wrong slot a favor. Work with your local HR professionals that can help you on that side of the equation. Get the right people in your organization that have the heart and the passion to do the work that you’re doing. Empower them to figure out what the right roles and processes are to reach your goal.
 Hugh: That is good stuff. That is good stuff. Russ, thanks for good stuff today. Scot, thanks for sharing your wisdom with us on The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Scot: It’s been a pleasure.
  
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        <![CDATA[<p> </p> <p><strong>Transcript of Interview with Scot McCarthy</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> It’s Hugh Ballou. It’s another great version of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em>. We are four years into this, Russell. What do you think of that?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> I think the next six we are going to blow the lid off of this thing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You blow the lid off every week.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> And grow and grow and grow.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have a mild-mannered man here in Lynchburg. He has got a lot under the hood. He’s got a little hair there. He hasn’t quite reached your perfect head status yet. Scot McCarthy is a man I met at the business alliance here. We have some mutual friends here. He has referred me to folks, and I’ve referred him to folks. I’ve determined that he has some really unique expertise that is applicable for these nonprofits that we’re talking to. We try to give them really good sound business principles because we are actually operating a tax-exempt business with a lot of rules for the IRS. Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em>, Scot.</p> <p><strong>Scot McCarthy:</strong> Thank you. Good to be here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tell us a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your background, and what is it that you say that you do.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> My son doesn’t believe me, but years ago I had a full head of hair. He looks at this today and says, “No, that’s my future.” It’s kind of funny. I found a couple pictures of myself in high school where he is today. I had a nice, big, thick head of hair just like he has today, and it was sad that I kind of saw the soul sucked right out of his body. I’m trying to help my son recover.</p> <p>But in the meantime, what I have been doing with my life is working in the corporate world, the nonprofit world, and everywhere in between for the last 20 years or so on organizational development and organizational effectiveness roles.  I have a lot of time with individual teams and leadership development programs. I find that there is a nice translation between what we try to do in the for-profit world with our human resources to deliver for our customers and in reality we do the same thing in the nonprofit world. In fact, what I’ve found is that it’s even more important on the human development side in the nonprofit world because we tend not to have a whole lot of headcount to work with to get the job done for our customers and our client base.</p> <p>I’ve had a great career about 20-25 years in organizational development work. I have had my own company, Stylewise Partners, for the last three years, and I work with for-profit and nonprofit organizations.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You work regionally, or you work nationally?</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> I work nationally. I do a lot of work for Stylewise Partners regionally, but because I have had such a fortunate network with General Electric and GE Capital and a number of different organizations over my career, I get called by other companies out of Richmond, out of Boston, out of Colorado, and other locations to come help them with organizational development work as well. My work takes me domestically, and in the past, internationally as well.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Awesome. And you and I have similar work, but you do it a little differently in a different segment. We have a passion for enabling and empowering and encouraging nonprofit leaders. One of our guests a few weeks ago, Romal Tune, said we have a for-profit business, but this one is a for-purpose business. I really liked it.</p> <p>What are we going to talk about today?</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Today, what I thought we’d touch on is seeing the fact that nonprofits have to really get the most out of their human resources, I wanted to talk a little bit about engagement. How do you help folks in what can sometimes be a stressful or resource-restricted environment to still come in with their passion on fire and get the most out of everybody on a daily basis in the nonprofit world? I think employee engagement is the topic that is on my mind today.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have purposeful organizations, and it’s important to have purposeful people do purposeful work. That is a good continuity piece. HR. Talk a little bit about HR. A lot of charities don’t even think about it. You said HR, didn’t you?</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Yeah. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I heard that. By the way, Russ, we’re having a coffee. Some of my freshly roasted espresso beans with a little latte. If we could, we would share it with you, but we can’t.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Just don’t have too much of it. I don’t want you guys to look like a pair of operators before the broadcast ends.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s it. We want to keep it lively. Talk about HR. Do you work with HR directors in for-profits and for-purpose organizations?</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Yes, absolutely. In fact, my career was, I kind of think of HR as two legs of a stool or two pieces of the pie. There is the policies and procedures and regulatory side of human resources, and what we can and can’t do, and where we need to make sure that we remain compliant. Then there is the human development side of HR. That’s really where I focused in my career. Honestly, I just never found my passion around the policies and procedures and that side of HR. Absolutely critically important. I think that’s something that nonprofits really can take advantage of HR leaders in their communities where they can gain that expertise. I have worked for HR leaders in nonprofit health care and in for-profit financial services that were absolutely phenomenal, and both offered their services continually to nonprofits in the area to help make sure that they were taking care of all the crossing of the T’s and the dotting of the I’s.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is so important. Russell, in your experience working with a number of nonprofits, is there a gap in competency in this area of human resources?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Talking to people to really find out what they need is important. It begins with finding out what’s in it for them, whether you’re asking a volunteer or someone on your board or bringing them in to work: What are your motivations? You don’t always have a lot of money to work with, so you will have to find some of those other motivations, whether it’s building your personal network or getting some visibility through something they create or through some growth opportunities. Are they students? Are they padding their resumes? Are they seniors looking for a way to make a difference? It really boils down to effective relationships and having people connect with you on that level. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And you mentioned the two sides of HR. I see this more and more. Sometimes they are dividing the work. There is a person that does culture. It’s personal growth. How do we nurture this culture development? That is my passion. The other side, you have the legal compliance piece, to keep you out of trouble, which is important. Those two really need to work together because we can do culture creation, which empowers the compliance piece. If people function at a higher level, not only are they more fulfilled personally, but their work is more efficient, more effective.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Absolutely. A lot of times, I really enjoy helping organizations, especially nonprofits, focus on what are the behaviors that make up that culture? What is our mission and vision? What are we here to do to deliver in the marketplace and in the community? What are the key behaviors that we need from our people to deliver on that mission and vision? Where I see that tie coming in is that when people are not displaying the right behavior, the right motives, the right purpose, that’s when we get into trouble with the compliance issues. That’s when people are bending the rules a little bit too far and going to the point of breaking them versus remaining compliant and again crossing all our T’s and dotting all our I’s.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> In talking about behaviors, there are tools that we can take instruments that we can do, like DISC or Myers-Briggs or some of those tools. Do you use some of those tools? What is the benefit in using any of those instruments?</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Absolutely. I am a strong believer from an internal perspective on Myers-Briggs, what my own personal preference is for how I integrate with the world and how I interact with the world. From a visible behavior perspective, I think Insights is a tremendous tool. I think DISC is a tremendous tool. I use DISC all the time from an individual coaching perspective, from a leadership coaching perspective, but then as an organizational culture and team development perspective as well. I think it’s important. We have to, especially in a nonprofit, where the teams are typically smaller, and we need to be more flexible in how we work with each other during the day to be able to understand why Scot approaches a certain task or certain responsibility differently than Hugh does differently than Russell does. Not to necessarily say I am right, you are wrong, or you are right and I am wrong. But just know that this is how Hugh approaches things, this is the strength he has, this is the benefit of his thought process that he can bring to the organization. How do we get the best out of Russell? How do we get the best out of Scot? How do we get the best out of Sally and Jane and really come together to be a strong cohesive team?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s good when you go through that as a staff together. I did Myers-Briggs several iterations with different church staffs. I remember one in Florida where we had been away for a three-day retreat. Part of one of the days was Myers-Briggs and the understanding of what it means and how introverts and extroverts relate to each other. I go in the choir and get them on the edge of their seats and say, “Guess what? I found out something about myself!” “Okay, what?” “I’m an extrovert!” They went, “Boo, hiss. We know that.”</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> That was easily read, I can imagine.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m like way over. The bar was over. ENFJ. Yeah, you could figure that one out.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Get stuff done.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Make a decision. But I also, the liabilities of that, J’s make a decision without enough information. P’s, Perceiving, need more information, but they wait too long, so having the relationship, which is the foundation of leadership, I think, having the relationship of those two balance each other out. Does DISC offer different kinds of elements than Myers-Briggs? I think a lot of people know Myers-Briggs or know about it.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Yeah, DISC is another acronym. We don’t need another acronym in life, but here it is. D is around Dominance, or how do I overcome obstacles to get things done? It’s about challenging the status quo. It’s about gathering information from different pieces, making a quick decision, and moving forward.</p> <p>I is around Influence or relationships. I is the human side of things. I’s come into the office on Monday morning and check in with everybody, saying, “How is the weekend? How did the kids do on their sports teams? Did you go to church? Did you like that song that we did?” It’s all around the interactions. Meanwhile, the D’s are going, “Get to work. Come on. Let’s go.”</p> <p>The S is around Steadiness, which is around the piece of, “Do I enjoy a nice steady pace in my life?” like opening up a box to put up a ceiling fan in the house. A high steadiness person would open up the box carefully and take the inventory, go step one, step two, step three, step four, and eventually put up a ceiling fan. A non-steadiness person would rip the box open and just start putting stuff together. It’s neither here nor there in terms of what’s right and what’s wrong; it’s just how you go about life. Steadiness is around the pace of life. I happen to be a higher steadiness person. If my wife, who I love dearly, comes to me on a Saturday morning and says, “Can you get this done today?” it will get me crazy because I already have my Saturday scheduled out. Sometimes, S’s have trouble with priorities because if I have my list of 10 things I am doing on that Saturday, if the kitchen is on fire and the wife asks me to put the fire out, it is #11 on my list. I have already got my top 10.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Funny.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> That’s a little bit about high steadiness. C is around Conscientiousness. How do we handle rules and procedures set by others? Do we follow the rules? Or is it more of a <em>Pirates of the Caribbean</em> thing where the rules are just guidelines?</p> <p>So that’s a little bit about DISC. It’s very visible. The thing I like about DISC is you can see if someone is a rule-follower or a rule-breaker. You can see if someone has a preference for a step one, step two, step three approach to the world or if they like to fight fires. I have a friend of mine who is an emergency, ED, doctor in the hospital. Step one, step two, step three kind of applies, but he loves not knowing what is coming in the door next. If he was put into a cubicle and said to balance these T sheets with debits and credits, it would drive him crazy. All of that comes into play in the world of nonprofit in terms of how well leaders know their people and what their people are best at and how you can best utilize those resources that you have on your team.</p> <p>DISC is a very effective tool to be able not only to have your team know each other better, understand each other better, come together as a team, but for the leader to have that information to go, “Ah, Hugh is the guy who will make sure that we are doing things with quality and accuracy. Jane is the one who is going to push us to make that decision when we have enough data and push us forward. So-and-so is the people person. They will be great in marketing these new events we have coming up.” It’s a tool that you can use to really maximize the effectiveness of your team.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> In its best sense. There is a weakness side, too. I got a couple of follow-up questions. It helps you discover yourself and your own style. Being authentic as a leader is part of what Russ and I teach. It’s also important to know that when you are talking to your donors. You said across the desk, bottom line person, get to the point, or do you sit at the corner of your desk, talk about family? Can you tell about a person? You’re not going to tell them to take a profile and then proceed from the DISC profile. Can you get to know them before you present so you know where they fit?</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Yeah, I think so. In some of my DISC presentations, I have a slide that gets to that in terms of: If people are focusing on When, When is it going to be done? When do we have to have this? The decisions that are being made. That tends to be someone who focuses on the D or the Dominance. It’s time-oriented. We need to do this, make this decision, and move on.</p> <p>If they tend to focus on Who, Who needs to be involved? Who do we need to communicate with? Who do we need to gain information from? Might be dealing with someone that is a Higher I or Influencer.</p> <p>If they talk about process a lot, like what happens first? What happens next? What happens next? What happens next? That tends to be high steadiness because they are so process-oriented.</p> <p>If they are focusing on the rules and regulations and they are trying to always focus on delivering with quality and accuracy, that tends to be highly Conscientious. You can almost pick up DISC characteristics and preferences based on what people tend to focus on and what they are asking us about.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We need to know what people are presenting to and how they receive information and how we are going to relate to them.</p> <p>There is also a negative side. I’ve seen people with Myers-Briggs and DISC try to cover up their weaknesses by saying, “This is my profile, so get over it.” They use it as an excuse because they really haven’t developed the relationships and accountabilities with people or gotten to know the usage of it well. Do you want to speak to that side? How do we prevent that from being a problem?</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> I think that’s really important. I think the other learning that we need to bring in there is maybe a little bit from Goleman in terms of emotional intelligence and social intelligence. We can always capitalize on our strengths, and I do encourage people to do that. Recognize that a high D brain brings certain characteristics and certain benefits to the party. No matter what our style is, no matter our blend of Myers-Briggs or DISC or any other assessment, we are going to have things that enable us to be successful. We are going to have characteristics that are potential barriers. To say, “Well, this is here I am. Tough. Deal with it,” we are cutting ourselves short in terms of our potential effectiveness.</p> <p>I always go after the concept of flexing my style. Just like you’re saying, if I am dealing with a donor, they are a high D. They just want the bare bones; what’s my money going to go to? What is the benefit of me donating to this cause? When am I going to start seeing the benefits? Then I want to make sure I flex my style. Even if I’m not a high D, I am going to flex my style to that person so I can live in their world and talk their language for a little bit. If I am working with a high I, and I just go in with the facts and figures, I am going to seem very cold to that donor. I am going to need to relate to their stories and talk about the human benefits and the human stories behind this. I think you’re selling, anyone that says, “Well, this is my style, and that’s all there is to it,” they are selling themselves short. They can be much more effective if they capitalize on their strengths but also learn to flex toward the style of others to foster that relationship. That is where the social intelligence comes into play. My emotional intelligence, I can manage and understand my own emotions, but to be able to work effectively with you or with others, I have to understand where you’re coming from, what’s important to you, and how can I deliver some of that for you so that you can then in turn help me deliver what I want to deliver?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m going to throw it to Russ because he is good at this flex. He has to flex every week at 2:00 when I show up. He has to accommodate my age and mental condition very often.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Oh, look at him.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> He thought he was going to get by without me pulling that card.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> We’re not even halfway through the broadcast, and we have fallen onto that again. You know, we’re going to get that. Flexibility is really the key. When you’re building relationships, you develop a little bit of a compass for that sort of thing over time. The conversations we have really in the nonprofit world is about what’s important to the person we’re talking to. We can kind of get a gauge and a feel for that. It’s really going with the flow because you’re relating to each person individually. There is no good one-size-fits-all formula for dealing with people, even when we have a lot of wonderful stuff that we talked about.</p> <p>Another thing we haven’t really talked about is the Strengths Finder. There was another inventory I found called an IPIP. It was really interesting. I have to look for that. That was a battery that took about a half hour. Told me a lot of things about whether I was altruistic, and it had about eight or ten other areas measuring emotionally and mentally. These are ways to learn about yourself. One thing I did for myself was to actually email and send letters to some people who know me really well to find out what they thought I did well and where I could use a little bit of help. Other people are a lot more, that get used to dealing with us, they can find our superpowers and our kryptonite and lay it out. Sometimes we are blind to that stuff. We don’t even know what we know, and we don’t know what we don’t know. Of course, if I just had a blanket age/mental condition or something like that, that’s not going to work with new people. The people who have known you for a while are just going to go, “Oh no, not again.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s an excuse. As you’re bringing that up, Russ, I’m thinking there is a comradery/collaboration/encouragement that sometimes happens around people’s learning styles. I hope you got some affirmations from the people you emailed, I’m sure you did, about your skills and your talents and your presence in the world. You got some good things, I’m sure.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Well, yeah, but there were a couple that were watching this show. They said for the age that you are, your mental condition ought to be a little better. I won’t say which people said that. This other battery I was talking about, I just had that in front of me. It’s called an IPIP Ennionarrative. I found this. It was developed by a gentleman at Penn State University. The areas it measures are Extroversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, Neuroticism (meaning are you neurotic), and Openness. It’s really interesting. It’s worth taking a little bit of time. It can be a little wordy. I had to go through it and pull some stuff out of the summary. It’s really good. <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Seems like a song.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I will grab the URL and drop it in there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Do you have a question brewing for our guest today?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I do. One of the things I was thinking about was when you walk into a business and you are starting to talk to people about things that matter to them, why is it important to find out what people want to get better at? Is that a currency you’re finding that is left on the table? People walk in, and they walk away because they don’t think there’s any chance for them to grow.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Give me a little bit more on that, Russ. In terms of, are you thinking about organizational growth? Are you thinking about personal growth?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I’m thinking about personal growth because you can’t always write a bigger check. People may or may not say out loud that what they want to do is gain more of a skillset. What sort of questions do you ask to gauge whether or not that something that is really important to them? <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> I tend to do as much homework up front as I can in terms of learning the person’s organization and even learning about the person themselves. Websites like LinkedIn and others are very useful to do some homework ahead of time. But then when we’re meeting, especially for the first time, there was a great book, and I don’t know if I have it with me today or not. There is a great coaching book that I found has a very strong reference. I’ll have to grab the title for you. It is something along the lines of <em>Say Less, Ask More Questions, and Change the Way You Lead the Rest of Your Life.</em> I might have it in my briefcase off to the side here because I was just using it with a client.</p> <p>The approach in that book is really just spending some time with someone and finding out what’s going on in their life right now. Is it content- or project-specific? Is it people issues, people challenges, human interactions? Or is it any type of a pattern within their organization? So what’s really happening in their world that they would like to see some more success around? Coaching them along the lines of, “All right, so what have we tried so far? What’s keeping you up at night about this particular topic?” Start to get them to think about those challenges that they’re having and addressing them in a safe environment. Hugh, you do a lot of coaching. To me, the real kicker is creating a safe environment for people to feel vulnerable with you a little bit or safe enough to feel vulnerable to say, “This particular aspect of my nonprofit or my working with the board or this one board member I’m having an issue with,” just getting them comfortable enough to share that with you so that you can ask them some more questions or get them thinking about a more productive approach. What have you found there?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. As you’re talking, it’s not only that I coach the leader, but I coach the leader on coaching. I don’t know who said this, but they said that coaching is 90% listening, and the other 10% is mostly listening. I find that leaders primarily don’t know the skills they need to lead. They think it’s push to do this, and the conductor knows it’s pull. Here’s where it’s going. You want to hold that up.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Can I share this?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’ll put it in the podcast notes.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> One of the most useful coaching resources. I have kind of outlined this book. I share it with different classes that I go to. It’s <em>The Coaching Habit: Say Less, Ask More &amp; Change the Way You Lead Forever</em> by Michael Stanier. Really useful. Just like seven or eight core questions that you help the other person think about. I have actually used this with nonprofit leaders. I have used it with team leaders. I have actually used it with my kids, getting them to think about an issue that is challenging them, whether it is around an academic subject, a relationship with someone in school.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s really universal principles.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> It absolutely is. The first question, here is my little outline of the book itself. The first question it gets you to think about: Hugh, in relationship to this topic we’re talking about, what’s on your mind? It starts out as broad as that. From there, you figure out if it’s a content issue, a people issue, a pattern issue. From there, take them down the coaching path.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Start easy. How many sleeves in the shirt? Build a confidence and rapport. Underneath leadership is relationship. You build trust and relationship before you can really impact anybody. Actually you said you use this with your corporate leaders and profit leaders. It’s probably more difficult in the nonprofit arena. How we do anything is how we do everything. I have found in the coaching clinic I have developed over the years with my corporate leaders—I do it with my teams who have teams under them—then we have a debriefing, and they’ll say, “I worked these listening things with my clients, and they liked it.” They were able to provide more data when I listened than when I talked. One guy said, “Oh, my wife really liked this when I tried it at home.” Leadership is multi-faceted, but the top of leadership skills and the top of under-utilized leadership skills is listening. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a good reason. Russ, you’re a man with an extensive library. Is that a book you’re aware of?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s a great book. I have it on Kindle with Audible. I forgot about that. It’s in my library. Kindle has been very bad for my checking account. I compile stuff much faster than I read it. I read that book maybe about a year or a year and a half ago. I have it on Audible. It’s something I need to revisit.</p> <p>This was the thing I was thinking. The best leaders are lifelong learners. They always got a book in their hand. They find a way to do things. They use tools like Blinkist.com, which is a service of book summaries. They have Blinks that are 12-16 minutes long, where they summarize a book and give you all of the points. You can download the points that you get in a Word document on your Kindle.</p> <p>The point is really it’s this continuous learning. Some people have an interest in that. Those are people you really want to look for. They may not have all the knowledge you want them to have, but if you can find one of these people that just has that addiction, passion, whatever you want to call it for learning and improving themselves, that’s really what I have considered to be the third step to building a high-performance nonprofit. Staying on track, measuring everything you do, continuous improvement. What better way for an organization to improve than to have your people improve? As they do more, you become more.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Russell, do you find that’s even more important in the nonprofit world from a hiring perspective? Maybe finding those folks that are the lifelong learners that thrive on picking up new skills and new knowledge and applying it to their nonprofit world versus coming in with X number of years of pertinent experience.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The way that I view it, and it really doesn’t matter what sort of organization you’re running, is it’s great to have people that have a high level of skill and a lot of knowledge. But you get somebody that comes in and tells me, “Well, I know everything you need to know. I’m going to be checking to make sure my wallet is still in my pocket.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That reminds me.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Hugh would never do that. He will admit to knowing a thing or two about a thing or two like me, but this everything, no. The people to help you get the results dig that talent out of you because my business model is you are more than meets the eye. I use that in my relation to other people because they got a lot of juice already there. They’re already working with a certain audience, and it’s kind of like they know what they’re trying to get at. Sometimes we have to get the ideas out of people. I’ve got a great guy, Darrell Stern, who I did a Stern Storming session with. He says, “You got a lot of content, but this is a mess. We got to pull all of this together.” He is helping me do that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> He can help you clean that up.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The genius is all there; it’s just pulling it all together and asking the right questions.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Notice he said learnin’. That’s Southern, Russ. You had a comment here.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> What you’re saying just totally aligns with how I think about engagement, as we started our conversation today. Especially in the nonprofit world, there are three ways or three avenues to really let people flourish, like you’re saying. If we can find the right people that we can unlock their potential in a nonprofit leadership role, it’s about making sure that we find the people that their heart, or their emotion, is aligned with the mission and the vision of the nonprofit that we’re working in. Do they get juiced up and jazzed up about doing this work in this nonprofit field? I’m working with a young lady now that did fantastic marketing efforts for a chapter of a nonprofit that is a national nonprofit, very large. She just made a move recently within the last year to a small nonprofit in town that has to do with the arts. You can tell just by looking at her face and talking to her that she is so jazzed up. She loved her old job, but she is so jazzed up about working for this arts academy that nothing is going to stop her from getting to work and giving it 110% every day. Her heart is engaged with the organization and the work she is doing.</p> <p>The other aspect is how do you get the best out of people’s minds? No one brain in the room is as smart as everyone in the room. How do you create as a nonprofit leader a culture where everyone’s input is valued? We get the best of the diversity of thought from everyone on the team, no matter what our role happens to be in the organization. Engage my heart, engage my head, engage my brain, and allow me, no matter what my role or responsibility, to flourish and to provide my ideas on how we can serve our customer, our community needs.</p> <p>Lastly, let me roll up my sleeves and do it again, a nice broad job description where I can help out in a lot of different ways. Now that you got my ideas, let me loose and let me go do it. I think that’s one of the things that really comes down to, especially in the nonprofit world, how we engage our workforce is engaging their hearts, engaging their heads and their minds, and engaging their hands. That comes from another great book I can reference that I have used in the past around this. It’s a book by Julie, and I don’t know the pronunciation of her last name. It’s Gebauer. And Don Lowman. They have come up with a book called <em>Closing the Engagement Gap.</em> They talk about these three elements of engagement with your heart, your head, and your hands. I found it to be a terrific resource. I found it to be true. People generally don’t wake up on a Monday morning going, “I wonder how I can sluff off today and not engage at work.” They are looking to have a good day, to have a good week. Do that by providing opportunities.</p> <p>Like you were saying, know your people. Know what makes them tick. Let them loose.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What we know as a conductor is the orchestra or choir gives you what they see. We influence them. It’s a reflection of the leader. As you’re talking about that, part of the work that you and Russ and I do with these nonprofit leaders is a work of encouragement and empowerment for them to then be the influencer. The burnout rate is 45%, and 75% of nonprofit leaders are looking at the exit door because they want to get out. There are things that we do as leaders that have negative consequences. Part of this we own. Part of what we do, Russ and Hugh and Scot, Scot with one “t,” he is saving up for the other “t.”</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> It’s on layaway.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Scot would be my heritage. I’m a Scot. Part of what we do is encourage leaders to come out of their, I guess it’s blind spots. We are trapped in, This is how we do things, when really it’s not how we do things. Speak to that a minute. How do we work as a catalyst for leaders to rethink how they lead, to reinvent themselves, to build their capacity to get past some of those barriers?</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> I think personally my experience is, and Russell, you touched on this before, is it’s being willing to be flexible and using our ears and our mouth in that ratio. If I truly am going to approach the world as a servant leader, I am here to serve not only my customer, but I am here to serve my team. It’s a little bit easier for me to slow down and listen to others’ ideas and to see, especially bringing in talent from outside the organization that might be able to look at things with a fresh lens. If I am a strong Dominant leader, not that I can’t listen and get ideas from others, it’s just going to take a little more energy for me to do that. I am going to have to consciously and purposefully slow down and listen, and really that is where maybe we can use some other people to facilitate us through that process, to say, “All right. I know the ideas I have in my head. I want to make sure I pull the team into this discussion. So maybe I need to have a third party or someone on my team facilitate that session to get ideas from others, whether it’s something as simple as writing on Post-It notes and slapping them up on a wall or other ways.”</p> <p>That is the one of the things I found in some nonprofits is that the leader has been there a while, they can be ingrained in how things have always been done. It takes a strong leader to take a step back, to say, “All right, what are some of the potential improvements that you guys see on a daily basis?”</p> <p>Part of my background was a GE Six Sigma Master black belt. I am an HR guy. I am not a statistics guy. Even going through some of those learnings with Six Sigma made the little bit of hair I had on the back of my neck stand up and give me the chills sometimes. It was good learning. I pushed myself forward. Became a master black belt within the organization. I got to coach a lot of process improvement projects and change leadership projects. One of the things that I found is that if you allow the people that are working on the process every day to then share in the process of continuous improvement like you were talking about before, that is the kicker. If you create, again creating the environment where people feel safe to go, “This could be done better.”</p> <p>The way I always approach Six Sigma process and work was talking with the front line associates and asking them what are the headaches that get in the way of you having a good day? Where does the process break down? Where is there rework? Where are there delays? Where is the communication breakdown between our donors and us? Where is the breakdown in communication between community efforts, what we’re doing and the community leadership? Everything we do is a process in one way or another. How do we allow the people that are doing the work every day to give us the feedback on where things can get better? What I found is they are open to that instead of, “You need to fix X, Y, and Z,” “Where are your headaches?” Let’s allow them to get rid of their headaches and support them in getting rid of their headaches every single day. That is when the lightbulbs, I worked with GE, it had to be a GE lightbulb, that is when the lightbulbs go off above people’s heads. I get to get rid of my headaches. Thank you. That’s just continuous improvement.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. I like to teach continuing improvement as personal growth. We never stop there. What we bring to the table is a paradigm shift for people. Russ, you got a question brewing. This guy has a lot of answers. He obviously has a lot of in-depth experience. There is a lot. We bring the synergy. SynerVision is the synergy of the common vision. There is a lot of what you say embedded in what we do. It’s the Pull leadership. It’s creating the space for people to function up. We as leaders tend to overfunction, and the reciprocity is underfunctioning for the teams. Often we create the problems ourselves because that’s all we know. We think the boss, which is double SOB spelled backwards, we think the boss who tells-</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> I gotta steal that. I love it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I stole it. It doesn’t work today. People don’t want to be told what to do, no matter which generation. We want to blame the millennials. I’m a boomer, and I don’t want to be told what to do either. What I was thinking when you were talking is we lead from the authenticity of self, but we respect individuals in the community and their authenticity. We are aligned in the common purpose, the common thread.</p> <p>We are hitting on the last quarter of our interview; it’s the last stretch. I want to make sure we hit the major themes. Russ, you’ve been brewing a hard question for our guest. He has a lot of knowledge and experience. What are you thinking you want to ask him?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I’m thinking that good leaders build good leaders. What are some of the tools that you give your clients to help them do that or to shift their thinking in that direction?</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Good. First and foremost, Russell, I think that getting to know your people is absolutely critical. It can be something as simple as what is your favorite candy bar? So that you can leave that on their desk on a Friday afternoon, thanking them for what they did this week. You made a great impact on our organization or our customer or our team. Getting to know them and taking the time to know what their personal aspirations are. Development and advancement can mean different things to different people. I may want to stay in my current role and go deeper and deeper and deeper. Maybe I am looking to go to some conferences this year, or maybe I am looking to speak on a panel discussion, or maybe I am looking to do some research on a white paper and develop a white paper on a topic that is important to our organization or industry. I have to get to know that person to understand what development and developing them as a leader looks like.</p> <p>Secondly, I have to look for some opportunities. If I am a higher C in my DISC style, conscientious, always looking at things from a quality and accuracy perspective, sometimes high C’s will struggle with delegating responsibilities to others and growing other people around them. Hugh, help me out here. If you want it done right?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Do it yourself.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> That can be a struggle for delegation and growing other people. If I am not going to let go of something, how am I going to let you do it and develop?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s the hardest thing I see for leaders to do. We have an idea, especially founders of nonprofits, of, This is the way it’s supposed to go, so I am going to do it. We alienate people because we haven’t given them the chance to use their passion. That’s why they are here.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Exactly.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have this other fallacy as nonprofit leaders that we don’t want to ask too much of volunteers. That’s why they are there. Ask them. They will tell you if they can do it or not. But in delegation, you’re right. That is so hard. That is so hard. I teach it. You teach it. I bet it’s hard for you, too. We have this passion for it; however, we are robbing a volunteer of an opportunity to connect their passion and be a cheerleader for what we’re doing. That was pretty good, Russ.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The other thing. I have a question that I would put into a leader’s head that might come from that place. It’s ask yourself: How can I get more done and get it done better so that it’s less work for me but we improve? How can I make this all better and have to not work as hard to make it better?</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Absolutely. One of the things to get to that point is I talk to managers when I’m coaching them and I say, “If you have a magic wand, what would be three things you would wave your magic wand to get off your desk right now today? Boom. Done. Don’t do it anymore.” They have those ideas in the back of their minds. How can you have someone else? First of all, does it have to get done? If it does, great, but who else can do it? How can that be a growth opportunity for someone else in your organization? Be it a volunteer or be it someone on the staff or someone who is looking to move up in the organization. Looking at everything that’s on my plate, how can I use what I’m doing now to develop someone else in the organization? That’s a great way to inspire people, a great way to involve people, a great way to become more effective as a leader.</p> <p>There is another book by a guy with the name of Scott Eblin. He has two T’s in his name. He is full-fledged Scott. Scott Eblin. The book is called <em>The Next Level.</em> What Eblin talks about is as you are moving up in the organization, and it can be micro-steps or macro-steps, but as you are moving up in the organization, what are those things you need to let go of? High D’s struggle with that. High S’s struggle with that because a high S likes to be an expert in what they do and focus on doing one or two things but do them well. High C’s really struggle with that. How do you not only develop yourself, but develop others in your organization as you are moving up through the different levels?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We as a conductor know that we are only as good as the people around us. It’s about creating the space for people to function at a higher level. We do shoot ourselves in the foot more often. Totally unaware of it.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> Many cases.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Conflict is going to happen. It’s the sign of energy. We don’t need to make it worse. We don’t need to make it destructive. Sometimes we do as leaders by our lack of clarity or inconsistency in directions and overfunctioning do set up some conflict. Then we don’t know what to do about it. We ignore it and it gets worse.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> I would have- When I was internal, now I help people from an external perspective. When I was internal, I would get a lot of managers calling me for team building. “Scot, please come help us do some team building. We are just not working right.” Russell and Hugh, you have probably come across this model before, but maybe other leaders haven’t heard of it yet. It’s called GRPI.</p> <p>The G is Goals. Do we have clarity and agreement on what the goals are? It’s around clarity and agreement.</p> <p>The R is around the Roles. Do we have the right roles? Do we have the right organizational structure set up? Is there role clarity between what we are doing to reach those goals? I am not supposed to do that. Hugh is supposed to do that. Hugh is saying that is Russell’s job. Now all of a sudden, we have this ehh going on on the team.</p> <p>P is around Process. Do we have the right processes in place? Russell, I don’t know if you have found this to be true, but I have always found there are three versions of every process map. There is the current process map that we have. There is the real process, as it really works, other than what’s going on in the process map. Then there is the third version, which is the future version of how it should ideally work. Do we have our ducks in a row? Are we heading toward that third version of the process map? Clarity and agreement on the goals, the roles, and the processes.</p> <p>I in GRPI is the interpersonal Issues. What I find is that teams are not functioning well when we have that lack of clarity around the goals, the roles, and the process. It’s almost like a gift with purchase. You get something else. If you don’t have clarity and agreement on goals, roles, and process, you will automatically have interpersonal issues. And that’s what matters. You always come to us and say you need team building. You don’t need team building. You need to clear up goals, roles, and process.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Sometimes team building is a game that is a copout. Connect them to something substantial.</p> <p>What is it that a frustrated nonprofit leader needs to know? What would be your tip for that leader? Not just to go to the next step, but to the top of the rungs. You get the parting thought.</p> <p>Scot, this has been a lot of good information today. I am going to give you the last- What do you want to leave people with?</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> I would say as a closing thought today as a nonprofit leader, focus on getting a GRPI. We say get a grip. Get a GRPI. That is the one thing that can truly bring you and your team to a higher level. Make sure that you and the whole team have clarity on what your goals are for the year. People always say, “Focus on SMART goals.” I found that there is a gentleman out there, Brendon Bouchard. Bouchard often talks about making sure that we have DUMB goals as well. DUMB starts with D. D is all about your Dream. What is the dream of your nonprofit? Why are you here, your mission and your vision? Start with the dream.</p> <p>Make sure that people understand what those goals are. Listen to, engage people. Know them and grow them and engage them in the process so that they can help you determine the best processes and where they can be improved and what the right goals are. Who should be doing what in the organization? There is always an opportunity to review those job descriptions and make them work. What should that job look like 12 months from now, 24 months from now as your nonprofit organization continues to evolve?</p> <p>Making sure you have the right team in the organization. If you don’t have the right talent, you’re not doing yourself a favor, you’re not doing that person in the wrong slot a favor. Work with your local HR professionals that can help you on that side of the equation. Get the right people in your organization that have the heart and the passion to do the work that you’re doing. Empower them to figure out what the right roles and processes are to reach your goal.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is good stuff. That is good stuff. Russ, thanks for good stuff today. Scot, thanks for sharing your wisdom with us on <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em>.</p> <p><strong>Scot:</strong> It’s been a pleasure.</p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange 2018 Sessions Review</title>
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      <description>Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis Review 2018 Quarter One Highlights for The Nonprofit Exchange.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
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      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
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      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis Review 2018 Quarter One Highlights</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis Review 2018 Quarter One Highlights for The Nonprofit Exchange.
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      <title>Romal Tune: What Happens When Men Heal?</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/romal-tune-what-happens-when-men-heal</link>
      <description>Romal Tune:What Happens When Men Heal? The Impact of Life, Leadership, and Legacy!

  
 Romal Tune is committed to this five-word sentence:
 “Help the hurting find healing.”
 He equips people to heal the wounds of their past, bravely
 offering his own journey as a case study of raw transparency and refreshing honesty. Romal is dedicated to helping others overcome shame, self-doubt, and self-sabotage and discover a new path to wholeness. This commitment is rooted in the Belief
 that whole people comprise communities that are economically viable, emotionally healthy, and socially responsible.
 As a speaker, seminar leader and author, Romal guides audienceces to discover
 and embrace their unique stories. He is a global leader who equips individuals,
 organizations and institutions to recover from setbacks and achieve success by acknowledging the past embracing the future.
 For more information go to https://RomalTune.com
 https://clerestoryworks.org
  
 Transcript of the Interview with Romal Tune
  
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Russell, welcome.
 Russell Dennis: Greetings. Happy Tuesday.
 Hugh: Russell David Dennis, co-host every week. We broadcast live on Tuesdays at 2 pm on Facebook. We record for the podcast, which you can find on iTunes or anywhere you find podcasts.
 Oh my goodness, I heard this guy last Saturday. It was amazing. He was a keynote speaker at the Methodist Conference in Virginia. It was a whole conference about race, diversity, and how to rethink how we relate to each other. I was so impressed with him that I called him up and asked him to be on the podcast. He said yes. Here we are. Romal Tune, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Romal Tune: Thanks for having me on. It’s good to be with you guys.
 Hugh: Did I say your name right?
 Romal: You did.
 Hugh: It has a really neat ring to it, Romal. We don’t make a practice of reading long, boring introductions. We like for our guests to introduce themselves. Tell us about yourself, your background, what’s brought you here, basically your story. What’s your passion?
 Romal: My passion is I am a storyteller. I love to tell stories of redemption. That comes out of my own life experiences growing up in northern California in the bay area. I lived in San Francisco and throughout the bay area. Inner city kid. Life challenges. Mom was a substance abuser and had some challenges with alcohol and addiction. But that wasn’t her whole story. Prior to that, she worked in the world of banking. Oddly enough, her success led her into addiction. We lost everything by the time I was in middle school. Went to live with my grandparents. At the age of 16, I moved to New Jersey and lived with my dad until I graduated high school. Signed up in the army. Desert Storm ’88-’92. Accepted to Howard University. Went to Howard from ’92-’96. Plan was to go to medical school. After I graduated from Howard, I was preparing to take the MCAT and working as a clinical research associate on phase 3 pharmaceutical studies.
 Working in a church. Volunteering and teaching some Bible studies. Didn’t grow up in the church. I ended up in the church simply because I had a girlfriend who went to church. She said, “If you want to be with me, you have to go to church.” I said, “Okay, praise the Lord, whatever it takes.” Had a passion for it. Realized one day sitting at my desk at a pharmaceutical company, phase 3 studies, I had a Bible study lesson and realized I loved the teaching and I probably would have been a really good doctor, but I wanted to go into ministry. I went to Duke University for graduate school and got a degree in religion. Never really worked in a church full-time.
 About 12 years ago, I started my own consulting company doing strategy and public relations in a variety of settings from corporate to large nonprofits, political campaigns, doing strategy and faith community strategy. Wrote a book four years ago. That book told my story of my journeys and challenges in the inner city and how I overcame them.
 Most recently, I wrote another book entitled Love is an Inside Job: Getting Vulnerable with God. There it is, Hugh is holding it up. That book is really about a journey of a life of fulfillment through the lens of therapy and faith. It deals with vulnerability. I always tell people, if you know Brene Brown, I am Brother Brown. I talk about my journey and the journeys of others that have had to overcome life challenges to find a deeper sense of meaning, fulfillment, and the very real way, peace of mind that is rooted and healing in your story, having a clearer sense of who you really are in the world, and letting everything flow from the inside out so that your success is actually an outward expression of internal wholeness rather than expecting those things outside of you to make you feel whole. I learned the hard way that it doesn’t work. Everything flows from the inside out.
 Hugh: That is amazing. You studied with Will Willimon at Duke, didn’t you?
 Romal: I did have a class with Will Willimon, yes.
 Hugh: He has been a guest on this podcast. As you might imagine, he had some profound things to say. You had an amazing story about writing a letter to Richard Rohr, who is quite the influencer. He gave you time and spent the day with you. Is that right?
 Romal: This was even before I knew I was going to have a book coming out. I did not have a book deal at the time. I came across a friend on social media who posted a Rohr quote about daily meditations. It was powerful. I started following him, getting those meditations via email every night. Some friends were planning a retreat with Richard. I didn’t know him. They were asking me for some advice around strategy. I said, “Here is the deal. I will help you with strategy free of charge if you somehow connect me with Richard Rohr. I am a big fan. I have been reading his books. I get his meditations.” They couldn’t guarantee it. He had been ill at the time, battling prostate cancer. They introduced me to his executive director via email. I wrote a letter. He gave it to Richard. Literally, I would say two days before Christmas, Richard Rohr emailed me himself and said, “Hey, I am recovering from prostate cancer. I am feeling better. I have been reading the letters. Yours is the first one I read. We can do a call if that’s what you’d like, or if you have time, you can come and I will spend the day with you here in New Mexico.” I did that. I booked the ticket. We identified a day, and I spent a full day from 9 in the morning until about 8 at night just hanging out with Richard Rohr, asking questions. He asked me a lot of questions. Oddly enough, some of his questions were specifically around race, and mine were around meditation and understanding my story through the lens of healing and redemption. We started building a friendship. We stay in touch quite regularly.
 When Love is an Inside Job was ready to come out, I asked him to write an endorsement, so you will see it in the book. Bob Goff is in there and Parker Palmer. People I have been fortunate enough to meet along the way.
 Hugh: Richard Rohr says, “This book fully engages you from the very first page with deep humanity, dear honesty, and yes, vulnerability.” Having that kind of quote from Richard Rohr is a big deal. If people listening to this podcast don’t know the name Richard Rohr, he is a person who will help you shift your paradigm and rethink your basic tenets of faith and your journey will be empowered in a very different way.
 Romal, I will help you with your strategy if you will introduce me to Richard Rohr.
 Romal: Deal.
 Hugh: My wife couldn’t put this book down. It’s on my queue. I have two ahead of it.
 Romal: I don’t know who those other two books are.
 Hugh: They are other friends. I do have a lot of author friends. I have already read it because she reads it to me. She is not reading anything else. She is finishing your book. It is profound.
 We talked about Richard Rohr shifting the paradigm. When I heard you speak, you were on for two and a half hours.
 Romal: Two hours you had to endure me talking.
 Hugh: It went by fast. It went by fast.
 Romal: That’s called a nap, Hugh.
 Hugh: I took notes. You helped us look at things in a different light. Go backwards a little bit. You pivoted, when your girlfriend said, “If you want to see me, you have to go to church.” You studied for Bible study. You were digging into the scripture. You didn’t grow up with this tradition. In a way, you have a way of seeing this in a very fresh light. What was the biggest pivot for you to go from where you were to where you are?
 Romal: There have been multiple shifts and pivots along the way. I think the first was with church, it gave me the first opportunity to shift my narrative and find a new way of being in the world. Much of my story and my identity in terms of who I believed I could become in the world, my capabilities, were shaped by my experiences growing up in a very challenging environment, which created some self-doubt, some insecurities, some uncertainty about the direction of life. Becoming a follower of Jesus in the context of a Christian community gave me some other people to be around to look at how different their lives were from mine and how their faith played a role in their lives. I was able to then look at how might my faith propel me in different directions and shape a new narrative for me? That was the first pivot.
 For many people, when they come into the church like I did, you not only begin to have a deeper relationship with God and your faith, but you also at the same time are learning how to do church. It’s like even in the workplace, you go in, you are selected for a specific task, but you are also learning the culture of that environment and what it looks like to succeed there. In the church world, you are also learning what it is like to succeed in church, to be okay there, where to sit, where not to sit, what things you can do, what things you can’t do, how to schedule a meeting room and the politics of space. I learned how to do church in the midst of growing my faith and then realized that in that process, I was also needing to suppress a part of my identity in terms of my upbringing and challenges I faced that were not welcomed in the church, at least the kind of church I was in. It was more based on who you are now rather than the story that brought you here. Those things play out in the workplace, too. We are oftentimes conditioned to leave certain parts of us at home so that we can function at a high level, at least at what we think is a high level in that context, not realizing the only way to truly function at a high level is to bring all of you into context, in the workplace or in the church, because nothing is wasted. There is wisdom in your story.
 The next pivot was actually withdrawing from church. There is a chapter in the book where it says in order to save my faith, I had to lose my religion. To draw closer to God required retracting from the things that I thought were the structured boundaries of who God could and could not be for me, which were some of the social norms of church rather than the actual Biblical narrative of how God uses all of your story and can redeem it. There is power in your broken places that can help heal others. Spending that time alone with friends who were of the faith, who were still in church, I was able to redefine myself based on a deeper relationship with God that had more room than the walls of the church.
 The next iteration is what I call the altar call, the return back to the community within the context of the congregation. But now bringing all of me into that context.
 Hugh: Wow. We are speaking to leaders out there who are running what we reframe the popular name is “nonprofit.” We are the only industry in the world who defines ourselves by what we are not. We are really a social profit. We are a social benefit. We are a tax-exempt charity. We are a business that has special rules and provides impact for people’s lives. Lots of things that we are. I experience a whole lot of leaders that define themselves by the damage of their past. They’re limited because of their family heritage. You met my wife, Leigh Anne Taylor. Just before you left, she got a stack of your books.
 Romal: Thank her again.
 Hugh: They will be put to good use, I’m sure. We have been studying the work of Murray Bowen. It’s learning about our family of origin, but it’s not to blame. It’s to understand ourselves. When I listen to you talk about your story, it’s been a remarkable pivot for you not being bound by the past. James Allen wrote this book years ago called As a Man Thinketh. In there, reframing the language, he said people want to change their circumstances but are unwilling to change themselves. They therefore remain bound. I am tracking this as vulnerability. Brene Brown has been out there and visible. In my world of conducting, James Jordan has a book out called The Musician’s Soul. He says you cannot make effective music on a podium until you can be vulnerable as a leader in front of that ensemble.
 What thought do you have for leaders breaking through some of those limits, those impressions of the past, to become vulnerable? How will that benefit their leadership?
 Romal: First, with your statement around nonprofits, as a friend of mine likes to say, instead of nonprofits, how about we use language like “for-purpose?” It is far more empowering. Your for-purpose organization.
 When it comes to leaders in the nonprofit sector, presidents and executive leadership teams, and even corporate in the same way, everyone has a story. Obviously, my journey is not like yours. But we all have stories that have shaped our lives. People tend to stay away from the wounded places because they still hurt, not realizing that by revisiting those stories that are sometimes uncomfortable, there is a way to look at them to see how they have shaped you and continue to show up in your thinking, your behavior, your beliefs, your interactions, so that you can take back from that past experience what it took from you, the confidence, the certainty, the self-awareness. Those experiences are part of your life, but they don’t get to define the rest of your life. When you do the work as a leader, what you are in essence doing is turning a wound into a scar. The scar is the evidence of healing. People don’t like dealing with their wounded places, and we don’t like them to do it either because when you are wounded, you bleed all over people. That is not helpful. But a scar is evidence of healing. That scar, when you do the work, gives you a deeper sense of empathy as a leader with the people you are engaging. It’s not in a sense just the work of getting people to perform a task, but it’s being able to empathize with their experience, their journey, their feelings in a way that allows you to connect such that they want to be a part of your team and want to be guided and led by you because you understand them as a person. You do not see them simply as a person who performs a task or makes a product.
 Vulnerability for the leader is not a sign of weakness. Vulnerability requires courage, transparency, and authenticity. As a leader, when you think about the great leaders of our generations, they have been vulnerable in a way that they have been able to articulate a story about themselves and others that people can see themselves as part of a deeper narrative, a bigger vision. You cannot cultivate deep vision without vulnerability. Why? Because vulnerability says that I cannot do it myself. I am not capable. I am finite. I need to surrender my understandings of who I am to something bigger than me. That requires vulnerability to admit that this requires more than me. I need you to get this done. There is a place we can go together, but I need you to help create that vision. That requires some vulnerability and some empathy.
 Hugh: Oh my goodness. Russell, you see why I love this guy. He just has great stuff to share. What are you thinking over there in Denver?
 Russell: There are a lot of things in there. A lot of problems that we have today hinge on this notion of separation. We think we are separate from each other. We are separate from God. We are out there on this island by ourselves. This notion that whatever we manifest in our lives, we have to come up with the power to do that, is ego-based. It keeps us falling short because what we do when we are in our natural state and flow is we let things be manifested through us by being connected with that power out there, with that source. I am not the source. When I rely on the source and let the source flow through me, all sorts of remarkable things can happen. Everything starts on the inside. Our outside results are a culmination of what is going on on the inside. When you come to a place where you figure that out, it’s tough because most of us have this thing called ego. There is this investment in looking good, no matter how things may be going. It could all be going to crap, but as long as I look good… It’s a mistake and assumption to operate in that way. We don’t have to be perfect. We don’t have to come up with everything. What a leader does is inspire vision in people and bring people along, knows exactly what he/she does not have and goes out and gets that. To build that vision and to make things come to fruition. A lot of times, there is this inner resistance. That is human; that is natural. When my inner resistance is up on anything, that is a signal to me that I want to change how I look at it.
 Hugh: The vulnerability thing is key, isn’t it, Romal?
 Romal: It is indeed because when we talk about vision, I think a solid, healthy leader first has a healthy vision for his/her life. You can’t take people where you haven’t been or at least are on the journey to yourself. To the whole notion of people wanting to have the appearance of life is well and things are going well, I was doing that. I was making a significant amount of money, and I could check all the boxes from education, graduate student body president, magna cum laude, all that stuff, two homes, fancy cars, able to travel. I had the appearance of a good life, but there was this internal angst that I still lacked peace of mind. That was simply because I was under the assumption that if I attained enough and purchased enough and had enough, I would eventually feel like I am enough. The problem is that that is a leaky bucket approach. The wound was internal.
 In order to feel like enough, I had to believe that for myself, that nothing outside of me could produce that in me. As the book says, it was an inside job. I had to deal with those places in me that felt incomplete and deal with why did I feel like I wasn’t enough yet? What was going on with me? When I looked around me, I should have been feeling pretty awesome about myself and about life because on the surface, things looked great. I had to realize that the pursuit of success did not deliver on the promise. I thought the promise was I will have joy and happiness. Happiness was temporary. You buy a new car until the car needs to go to the shop. You buy a new house. You’re happy until some plumbing breaks. I wanted joy. I wanted a state of being that no matter what my environment and circumstances, I could say I loved my life. I was at a place where I could not make that statement honestly. I yearned for the ability to love my life no matter what. I wanted to put away the façade. That required doing the inner work. I found that in doing it, I feel lighter. I can appreciate life. I can look around me and be fully present, not only to the life I am living, but also to the people who are in it. I can sit in meetings and not just wait for my turn to speak, but be fully present and listen and ask questions and have an interest rather than just an agenda. I am free. To Russell’s point, I have everything I need, even if it is not in front of me. It is all based upon how I see life and who I believe I am in the context of the world and what is acceptable, what is available to me.
  To get to that place requires vulnerability. That vulnerability leads you into humility. If you are courageous enough to be honest with yourself about who you truly desire to be in the world and ask yourself what is keeping me from becoming my best self in my lifetime, then you come to the conclusion that I am what is keeping me from that. My beliefs about myself, the parts of my story I haven’t dealt with. If I truly want to be the best version of me in my lifetime, let me be man or woman enough to let me confront those narratives and redeem what they took from me so I can live life to its fullest.
 Hugh: There is a trend now of big celebrities, like Jay Z, the Rock. There is a trend for people to openly talk about vulnerability. You made the pivot. Did you have a counselor or coach or therapist, somebody that was helping you reframe things to break through to feeling comfortable? You were on stage. I was in the second row watching you. You were open and vulnerable. You were transparent. The audience could really connect with you almost immediately. Was there someone working with you? It’s hard to do it by ourselves, isn’t it?
 Romal: I don’t think we are capable of doing it by ourselves. I have a therapist. In fact, this past weekend we were in South Carolina together conducting a workshop. I created a workshop based on Love is an Inside Job called Clere-Conscience: Using the Past to Heal the Present. We conducted a four-hour workshop on Saturday.
 Having a therapist, someone I can talk to, as a friend of mine says, she is a doctor, her therapist calls herself her compassionate witness. Having that compassionate witness in my life that I can be fully honest with after having trusted each other where I can tell him the whole truth without shame and judgment for the sake of guidance. Therapy helps. Every great leader I have ever talked to has a therapist. I tell people, especially in the faith community who shun therapy: If you broke your leg, you wouldn’t simply say, “God knows my leg is broken. Heal my leg, God. I don’t need to go to the doctor. You’re God, and You can heal it.” That doesn’t make good sense, and you probably wouldn’t do that because you know something is required from you for that kind of healing. The same with our wounded places emotionally. We need help at times to help heal those things that we can’t heal ourselves. It requires the same level of intention to identify a professional who can walk alongside you on a journey to becoming your best self.
 Hugh: The title that you suggested for this interview was men healing and how that impacts our leadership. Say a little more about what drove you to think of that title.
 Romal: When we were working on the book with my publisher, my editor made the comment that this is a book about healing men, and also as a book for the women who love them, simply because the book is written through the lens of my journey as a man and learning vulnerability and empathy and what love really is and expressing that and having healthy ways of affection and love through the lens of a man who is doing the work. There are stories about women and relationships and things of that sort. I believe that in some ways, when men are able to heal our stories, our beliefs about ourselves and about other people, we can now get rid of these false paradigms of what it means to be a man.
 I was just saying to a group of men over the weekend: We as men are rarely taught by the men who nurture us how to be happy. We are conditioned to be strong, stand on your own two feet, don’t cry, be a man, be strong, carry the way, endure the burdens. A man is able to endure burdens and carry the weight. That is what men do. No one ever said, “Hey, Hugh, here is what it looks like to be a happy grown man. Here is what it likes to be a man who is full of joy and peace of mind.” We didn’t get that. We were told these other things. Then what happens is you grow up, you get into a relationship with a woman, and she asks, “Tell me how you feel.” You don’t know what to do with that. “I could eat?” You got nothing. You are not conditioned to talk about how you feel. As young men, that is not how we are nurtured. We can do away with that false paradigm that men don’t have feelings of anxiety, fear, sadness, and doubt. We can get rid of that. It’s okay to express those things. It doesn’t make you less of a man, nor does it make you weak. It makes you smart enough to be a healthy man. That allows you to be in healthy relationships and to engage people in a healthy way without showing up with a façade that most people know is not the real truth anyway.
 Hugh: People say, “Man up, suck it up, deal with it.” We are this cement face. It’s a major journey to be a whole person. For those of us who grew up with that paradigm.
 Russell, if you have a question for our guest, lay it on him. This is a good time to give him a hard question.
 Russell: There is this thing called a male ego that gets us into trouble. You described some of the problems that we have. I am wondering if that narrative is starting to change. Are more men actually starting to get it? This whole Superman thing is killing him. Is the dynamic starting to shift with more men looking at it and saying, “Okay, I need to do something different because I can’t pick the world up on my shoulders here?” Do you see a movement in that direction? Do you see more change?
 Romal: Yes. The thing is, no one ever asks us to hold the world on our shoulders. We assume that is what men do. Rather than we can hold everything together as people living in community to bring about change or to live healthy lives, I think that there is a movement of sorts where people are really beginning to realize that these ideas that I had about identity and even ego have not served me well. They have not delivered on the promise. Aesthetically, when I look around, I have some things. But the thing I truly desire, this happiness, this joy, this sense of wholeness and fulfillment, who I was told to be in the world has not delivered that. And I am tired. I think more men and women are realizing they are tired. This game I have been playing, this mask I have been wearing, this armor I have been carrying is heavy. I want to lay it down so I can be free and whole. I am only getting to do this life thing once, and I want to leave unempty. I want to leave having become the best version of me I could possibly be in my lifetime. I want to live a life of meaning and fulfillment. That fulfillment means if I want to be filled with the essence of who I truly am in the world and let that flow from the inside out. That is why love is an inside job. I learned to love and value me. All I can see through the lens of that self-love is the love and value of others.
 Hugh: My wife bought a stack of your books. I am sure others did. There is discussion groups, especially with pastors. That is a unique position to be in. There is a lot of stress and assumptions, especially for male pastors, and women are helping change that paradigm. Another quote I like from James Allen’s book is: We don’t attract what we need; we attract what we are. Breaking through this vulnerability to this pattern of accepting our healing, it’s not a wound, it’s a scar, it’s a strength.
 I want to hear two things. What are you hoping will happen when people rally around and study your book? Especially to men as leaders in the church. After you say that, what was your journey, your value? We write books for other people, but amazing things happen to us when writing the book.
 Romal: There are several layers of what I hope will happen as people read the book. My desire is they find themselves in the book and begin to look at their own stories and engage in the process of doing the work to become whole themselves, to be their best selves through the lens of faith and therapy. I wanted to show that these things are not contradictions. Therapy is a way of honoring your faith.
 My hope is that people will be courageous enough to embark on their own journey of healing, to begin a deeper dialogue around our sense of self-worth and identity around our stories and how our stories have shaped us and the ways that we can begin to take control of our stories and play the lead in our lives and then create a new way forward.
 Next year, my plan is to have a men’s conference around emotional health and wellness with 1,000 men from across the country and host that here in Atlanta. We will be guided by breakout session and lead by therapists to deal with a whole host of issues.
 My Aha moment is in chapter seven, the chapter where it says “Getting Vulnerable with God and Honest with My Dad.” In January, my dad and I have not talked for ten years since my mom passed. My mom was free and clean of drugs for several years before she died of lung cancer. My dad came to her funeral. We didn’t have a great relationship, he and I. In the course of writing the book and now being a father myself, my editor asked me to talk about the healing process and the relationship with my father. As I was writing, she sent me a note, “I can’t use any of this.” I said, “Why not?” She said, “Because it reads like you are still angry. I need you to think about the relationship you have with your own kids, the level of grace you are going to need from them, and then offer that to your dad.” I realized that I was writing from the lens of a wounded child who was 16, not a 48-year-old man who has been on a journey of healing. The wounded teenager with his disappointments and frustrations and negative memories was guiding my hand. I had to step back and reflect and say, “That is not who I am anymore. Who I am is not based on who I was then. What would I say to my dad then based on being fully present in this moment at 48, the lessons I have learned, the wisdom, the grace I will need from my own children and the grace I offer others?” I penned that chapter differently.
 In real time, back in January of this year, my dad and I connected. I was speaking in Houston, and he lived 30 minutes from where I was speaking. We connected and had a great experience. I showed up not as a wounded teenager, but as a man who is on a journey of healing, who wants to be fully present and offer grace and love to people. That changed the dynamics of our interaction. That was my Aha moment. There is more on that in that chapter of Love is an Inside Job.
 Hugh: Which chapter is that?
 Romal: Chapter seven, “Getting Vulnerable with God and Honest with My Dad.” I write him a letter in the book.
 Hugh: That’s powerful. I can’t wait to get there.
 You act on your transformational thoughts. You actually transform yourself. So many people have thoughts and never do much about it. At 48, you have wisdom that far surpasses your years. You’re a no-nonsense person. What prompts you to want to ask these questions? The thread that you had through this interview is that you have listened to external advocates, external supporters, external pundits that talk to you and give you feedback. So many leaders pooh-pooh that and then don’t pay attention and don’t act on it. But you have demonstrated that this transparency and vulnerability has helped you. What is underneath that that says to you, “I am going to do something about this?”
 Romal: Honestly, my own mortality. My mom passed 11 years ago. She was 53. She died of lung cancer. Ever since her death, I have had a very keen awareness of my own mortality. That guides me because I am constantly aware of I don’t know how long I get to be here. To put things off is tempting fate and time. I really want to be the best version of me in my lifetime, and I don’t know how long that is. I don’t want to waste time pretending or putting things off. When I think about the internal peace that I desire, the level of joy and happiness I desire, I don’t want to be the reason that I put that off for myself. When I think about being the best version of me in my lifetime and not knowing how long that is going to be, I can’t assume that I have time to waste. If I have time to waste, I then have to question why am I wasting it, and what am I wasting it on? There is no value in that to living my best life while I have it. I try my best to remove the gray areas. I don’t always get it right. But I offer myself grace along the way. I celebrate even the smallest victories in my life that are pushing me in the direction of wholeness. I am really compelled by that. My awareness of my humanity and my mortality. I get to do this once, and I want this journey to be amazing.
 Hugh: Wow. That is so key. We have two websites listed on The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s RomalTune.com. There is a place to see your books and connect and get a book. There’s an About You and some videos there with you speaking. There is also a place they can find out about you speaking. Give us the URL for the nonprofit. Tell us what your passion was to start that.
 Romal: Love is an Inside Jobis available on all bookselling platforms.
 My nonprofit The ClereStory Education Fund started out in my own giving just over ten years ago. The name has changed. The website is ClereStoryWorks.org. The clerestory is an architectural term. It’s the highest level of a wall containing windows that let in light. If you were ever to Google “clerestory” and look at a picture, you will typically see churches with ceilings with windows that are above eye level with light shining in. We use it as a metaphor in saying that through the ClereStory workshops, we take a high level look at your life and shine light on the stories that have shaped who you believe you are in the world. Through ClereStory, we conduct workshops on creating a healthy vision for your life.
 We have one called Clere-Economics where we help you understand and value money through the lens of your story and your economic narrative and how it shaped you and how to write a new narrative. We have one called Clere-Conscience, where we deal with emotional health and wellness. Through the money that is generated from the workshops and my speaking engagements, we have a fund where we provide stipends and tuition assistance for kids from challenging circumstances who otherwise would not get a college education without the help from others, which has been a part of my story. My ability to live the life I have now is because of the generosity of strangers when I was unable to do for myself.            
 Hugh: That is profound. You can go to TheNonprofitExchange.org, and the video for this interview will be there, as well as the links for those two sites.
 Russell, what are you thinking? Got some more questions for our guest?
 Russell: We have covered a lot of things. A lot of things take place in the mind. The mind is our friend. It can be compatible with spirit. We talked a lot about doing things on an emotional and mental level. There is a spiritual component that goes into this. It’s a connection with a power greater than ourselves that can’t be defined by anybody else. It’s a personal connection. How much does that play into your work? Actual mindfulness practice, prayer, meditation, how much do those factor into the work you do?
 Romal: Great questions. Prayer meditation is essential to me. The more I have learned about meditation and talking with Richard Rohr and reading and listening to different podcasts, the more I meditate- Prayer and meditation are different for me. The paradigm I learned when I got into the church for prayer is that I did all the talking and I did all the asking. Specifically, prayer was about, “Hey God, I need some stuff.” Whatever stuff was, from healing to a car. You name it. It was like, “God, can You help a brother out?” Meditation was more God doing the talking and me doing the listening.
 Meditation was harder initially because I was used to doing all the talking and didn’t even know how to listen for God. The ability to meditate, be still, and deal with the thoughts that are coming in and not try to push them away but receive them and then let them go- That stillness practice has shown up in so many other ways in my life. I am more patient with life and the world and situations. I remember one time sitting in traffic and realizing I wasn’t annoyed and totally not acting like I didn’t know Christ in that traffic. I was able to be still. I was okay. I thought to myself, I have the ability to be still for 20 minutes every day. I can be still and fully present. If I break up this moment in this traffic into 20-minute increments, this is nothing. I can be present. I can reflect now. But meditation and prayer play an essential role in this journey. I talk about that in the book. Through meditation, I am able to listen for God.
 I have come to a place where I am able to bring everything to God. That means my broken places. The Bible says, God will give you beauty for ashes. I am willing to bring God my ashes. I think sometimes people will say, “Well, God already knows all that painful stuff. Why do you have to say it?” Because this is a conversation. It’s a relationship. God knows. God wants to know that you are aware of yourself and you are aware of your own places that need healing. Giving the voice to it is powerful. As Brene Brown always says, the shame thrives in silence, but when you name it and give voice to it, it loses its power. In the presence of God during prayer, naming it, I am freed from the power of shame and guilt and doubt because I am able to surrender it. I have often thought that life was about fighting to achieve. What I have realized that everything I have thought I’ve had to fight for, it was never about fighting; it was about surrender. The Bible says, “The battle is not yours; it’s the Lord’s.” I get that now. So much of the fulfillment I have wanted for myself actually requires surrender. The piece I want requires surrender. The love I want requires surrender. The life that I wanted requires surrender. Prayer meditation plays an integral part. My favorite scripture, Jeremiah 29:11: I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. Plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you hope and future. That is in fact true. God has a plan to prosper you, not to harm you, plans to give you hope and the future. You don’t have to fight for that. You have to surrender to it. It’s already there for you to receive. Just say yes. Allow yourself to experience it rather than think you have to go to battle for everything. The battle is already won.
 Hugh: Is your relationship with God a requirement for inner healing?
 Romal: I think that whether you have a relationship with God or not, God has a relationship with you. A person not being aware of God does not mean that God is not aware of that person. God’s plan is not based on whether you are aware of God. God says I know the plan I have for you. You didn’t create yourself, so you don’t tell yourself what you were created for. In many ways, whether you know it or not, even if you don’t know it, the hand of God is still moving. God’s righteousness and purpose falls on the just and the unjust. God’s grace, right? You don’t have to be aware of it to receive grace. You don’t have to be aware of it to receive God’s love. I think you appreciate it more, you are able to express gratitude more when you are aware that it’s not you, that it’s a God who is better than you, who is directing His path.
 I use a metaphor, the Duke Ellington of your life. I love jazz. The Duke was able to take all of these different instruments, and he never asked the trumpet to be the sax or the sax to be the bass. He said, “Just follow my lead. Be the best version of you that you can be. Follow my cues, and we will make something beautiful together.” I think if we follow God’s lead and just try to be ourselves and not try to be someone else, God makes some pretty beautiful things happen. When we are aware, we can celebrate that with a greater sense of gratitude. Gratitude is a path to a greater life. Yes, that healing can come whether you are aware that it’s God or not. I think there is a greater sense of joy and peace and gratitude and adoration when you realize that there is a God that loves you enough. God doesn’t remove God’s presence from everything that you have already created for.
 Hugh: Whoa. That’s really good.
 As we are ending this really awesome interview, Romal, what do you want to leave people with?
 Romal: You asked a question. You said you are a no-nonsense person; what is behind all of this? I think what I would want to leave people with is from this moment forward, you have an opportunity to be the best version of you that you can possibly be in your lifetime. Every moment in your life is an opportunity to say yes to grace and yes to who you are truly meant to be, yes to the peace of mind, the joy, the fulfillment that is your deepest yearning, that sense of connection, that sense of value. It begins with you saying yes to it. I would leave people with that reality that everything you desire, who you desire to be, who you are meant to be, the answer is already yes. You just have to pursue it and be unapologetically and authentically you.
 Hugh: Romal Tune, you’re awesome. Thank you for spending this hour with us on The Nonprofit Exchangesharing your wisdom with the world. Thank you so much.
 Romal: It’s been my pleasure, Hugh. Russell, it’s been great to meet you, and I have enjoyed being here.
 Russell: Always a pleasure. Many thanks. What our lives are about and the way that we become- To increase our understanding and effectiveness and to be a maximum service to people around us, it’s all about raising our level of consciousness, whatever that means to you. Raise that level of consciousness, and more things are possible.
 Hugh: Thank you, folks.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7dfb2c36-b329-11eb-9f0f-c30bbcebe94e/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Impact of Life, Leadership, and Legacy!</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Romal Tune:What Happens When Men Heal? The Impact of Life, Leadership, and Legacy!

  
 Romal Tune is committed to this five-word sentence:
 “Help the hurting find healing.”
 He equips people to heal the wounds of their past, bravely
 offering his own journey as a case study of raw transparency and refreshing honesty. Romal is dedicated to helping others overcome shame, self-doubt, and self-sabotage and discover a new path to wholeness. This commitment is rooted in the Belief
 that whole people comprise communities that are economically viable, emotionally healthy, and socially responsible.
 As a speaker, seminar leader and author, Romal guides audienceces to discover
 and embrace their unique stories. He is a global leader who equips individuals,
 organizations and institutions to recover from setbacks and achieve success by acknowledging the past embracing the future.
 For more information go to https://RomalTune.com
 https://clerestoryworks.org
  
 Transcript of the Interview with Romal Tune
  
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Russell, welcome.
 Russell Dennis: Greetings. Happy Tuesday.
 Hugh: Russell David Dennis, co-host every week. We broadcast live on Tuesdays at 2 pm on Facebook. We record for the podcast, which you can find on iTunes or anywhere you find podcasts.
 Oh my goodness, I heard this guy last Saturday. It was amazing. He was a keynote speaker at the Methodist Conference in Virginia. It was a whole conference about race, diversity, and how to rethink how we relate to each other. I was so impressed with him that I called him up and asked him to be on the podcast. He said yes. Here we are. Romal Tune, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Romal Tune: Thanks for having me on. It’s good to be with you guys.
 Hugh: Did I say your name right?
 Romal: You did.
 Hugh: It has a really neat ring to it, Romal. We don’t make a practice of reading long, boring introductions. We like for our guests to introduce themselves. Tell us about yourself, your background, what’s brought you here, basically your story. What’s your passion?
 Romal: My passion is I am a storyteller. I love to tell stories of redemption. That comes out of my own life experiences growing up in northern California in the bay area. I lived in San Francisco and throughout the bay area. Inner city kid. Life challenges. Mom was a substance abuser and had some challenges with alcohol and addiction. But that wasn’t her whole story. Prior to that, she worked in the world of banking. Oddly enough, her success led her into addiction. We lost everything by the time I was in middle school. Went to live with my grandparents. At the age of 16, I moved to New Jersey and lived with my dad until I graduated high school. Signed up in the army. Desert Storm ’88-’92. Accepted to Howard University. Went to Howard from ’92-’96. Plan was to go to medical school. After I graduated from Howard, I was preparing to take the MCAT and working as a clinical research associate on phase 3 pharmaceutical studies.
 Working in a church. Volunteering and teaching some Bible studies. Didn’t grow up in the church. I ended up in the church simply because I had a girlfriend who went to church. She said, “If you want to be with me, you have to go to church.” I said, “Okay, praise the Lord, whatever it takes.” Had a passion for it. Realized one day sitting at my desk at a pharmaceutical company, phase 3 studies, I had a Bible study lesson and realized I loved the teaching and I probably would have been a really good doctor, but I wanted to go into ministry. I went to Duke University for graduate school and got a degree in religion. Never really worked in a church full-time.
 About 12 years ago, I started my own consulting company doing strategy and public relations in a variety of settings from corporate to large nonprofits, political campaigns, doing strategy and faith community strategy. Wrote a book four years ago. That book told my story of my journeys and challenges in the inner city and how I overcame them.
 Most recently, I wrote another book entitled Love is an Inside Job: Getting Vulnerable with God. There it is, Hugh is holding it up. That book is really about a journey of a life of fulfillment through the lens of therapy and faith. It deals with vulnerability. I always tell people, if you know Brene Brown, I am Brother Brown. I talk about my journey and the journeys of others that have had to overcome life challenges to find a deeper sense of meaning, fulfillment, and the very real way, peace of mind that is rooted and healing in your story, having a clearer sense of who you really are in the world, and letting everything flow from the inside out so that your success is actually an outward expression of internal wholeness rather than expecting those things outside of you to make you feel whole. I learned the hard way that it doesn’t work. Everything flows from the inside out.
 Hugh: That is amazing. You studied with Will Willimon at Duke, didn’t you?
 Romal: I did have a class with Will Willimon, yes.
 Hugh: He has been a guest on this podcast. As you might imagine, he had some profound things to say. You had an amazing story about writing a letter to Richard Rohr, who is quite the influencer. He gave you time and spent the day with you. Is that right?
 Romal: This was even before I knew I was going to have a book coming out. I did not have a book deal at the time. I came across a friend on social media who posted a Rohr quote about daily meditations. It was powerful. I started following him, getting those meditations via email every night. Some friends were planning a retreat with Richard. I didn’t know him. They were asking me for some advice around strategy. I said, “Here is the deal. I will help you with strategy free of charge if you somehow connect me with Richard Rohr. I am a big fan. I have been reading his books. I get his meditations.” They couldn’t guarantee it. He had been ill at the time, battling prostate cancer. They introduced me to his executive director via email. I wrote a letter. He gave it to Richard. Literally, I would say two days before Christmas, Richard Rohr emailed me himself and said, “Hey, I am recovering from prostate cancer. I am feeling better. I have been reading the letters. Yours is the first one I read. We can do a call if that’s what you’d like, or if you have time, you can come and I will spend the day with you here in New Mexico.” I did that. I booked the ticket. We identified a day, and I spent a full day from 9 in the morning until about 8 at night just hanging out with Richard Rohr, asking questions. He asked me a lot of questions. Oddly enough, some of his questions were specifically around race, and mine were around meditation and understanding my story through the lens of healing and redemption. We started building a friendship. We stay in touch quite regularly.
 When Love is an Inside Job was ready to come out, I asked him to write an endorsement, so you will see it in the book. Bob Goff is in there and Parker Palmer. People I have been fortunate enough to meet along the way.
 Hugh: Richard Rohr says, “This book fully engages you from the very first page with deep humanity, dear honesty, and yes, vulnerability.” Having that kind of quote from Richard Rohr is a big deal. If people listening to this podcast don’t know the name Richard Rohr, he is a person who will help you shift your paradigm and rethink your basic tenets of faith and your journey will be empowered in a very different way.
 Romal, I will help you with your strategy if you will introduce me to Richard Rohr.
 Romal: Deal.
 Hugh: My wife couldn’t put this book down. It’s on my queue. I have two ahead of it.
 Romal: I don’t know who those other two books are.
 Hugh: They are other friends. I do have a lot of author friends. I have already read it because she reads it to me. She is not reading anything else. She is finishing your book. It is profound.
 We talked about Richard Rohr shifting the paradigm. When I heard you speak, you were on for two and a half hours.
 Romal: Two hours you had to endure me talking.
 Hugh: It went by fast. It went by fast.
 Romal: That’s called a nap, Hugh.
 Hugh: I took notes. You helped us look at things in a different light. Go backwards a little bit. You pivoted, when your girlfriend said, “If you want to see me, you have to go to church.” You studied for Bible study. You were digging into the scripture. You didn’t grow up with this tradition. In a way, you have a way of seeing this in a very fresh light. What was the biggest pivot for you to go from where you were to where you are?
 Romal: There have been multiple shifts and pivots along the way. I think the first was with church, it gave me the first opportunity to shift my narrative and find a new way of being in the world. Much of my story and my identity in terms of who I believed I could become in the world, my capabilities, were shaped by my experiences growing up in a very challenging environment, which created some self-doubt, some insecurities, some uncertainty about the direction of life. Becoming a follower of Jesus in the context of a Christian community gave me some other people to be around to look at how different their lives were from mine and how their faith played a role in their lives. I was able to then look at how might my faith propel me in different directions and shape a new narrative for me? That was the first pivot.
 For many people, when they come into the church like I did, you not only begin to have a deeper relationship with God and your faith, but you also at the same time are learning how to do church. It’s like even in the workplace, you go in, you are selected for a specific task, but you are also learning the culture of that environment and what it looks like to succeed there. In the church world, you are also learning what it is like to succeed in church, to be okay there, where to sit, where not to sit, what things you can do, what things you can’t do, how to schedule a meeting room and the politics of space. I learned how to do church in the midst of growing my faith and then realized that in that process, I was also needing to suppress a part of my identity in terms of my upbringing and challenges I faced that were not welcomed in the church, at least the kind of church I was in. It was more based on who you are now rather than the story that brought you here. Those things play out in the workplace, too. We are oftentimes conditioned to leave certain parts of us at home so that we can function at a high level, at least at what we think is a high level in that context, not realizing the only way to truly function at a high level is to bring all of you into context, in the workplace or in the church, because nothing is wasted. There is wisdom in your story.
 The next pivot was actually withdrawing from church. There is a chapter in the book where it says in order to save my faith, I had to lose my religion. To draw closer to God required retracting from the things that I thought were the structured boundaries of who God could and could not be for me, which were some of the social norms of church rather than the actual Biblical narrative of how God uses all of your story and can redeem it. There is power in your broken places that can help heal others. Spending that time alone with friends who were of the faith, who were still in church, I was able to redefine myself based on a deeper relationship with God that had more room than the walls of the church.
 The next iteration is what I call the altar call, the return back to the community within the context of the congregation. But now bringing all of me into that context.
 Hugh: Wow. We are speaking to leaders out there who are running what we reframe the popular name is “nonprofit.” We are the only industry in the world who defines ourselves by what we are not. We are really a social profit. We are a social benefit. We are a tax-exempt charity. We are a business that has special rules and provides impact for people’s lives. Lots of things that we are. I experience a whole lot of leaders that define themselves by the damage of their past. They’re limited because of their family heritage. You met my wife, Leigh Anne Taylor. Just before you left, she got a stack of your books.
 Romal: Thank her again.
 Hugh: They will be put to good use, I’m sure. We have been studying the work of Murray Bowen. It’s learning about our family of origin, but it’s not to blame. It’s to understand ourselves. When I listen to you talk about your story, it’s been a remarkable pivot for you not being bound by the past. James Allen wrote this book years ago called As a Man Thinketh. In there, reframing the language, he said people want to change their circumstances but are unwilling to change themselves. They therefore remain bound. I am tracking this as vulnerability. Brene Brown has been out there and visible. In my world of conducting, James Jordan has a book out called The Musician’s Soul. He says you cannot make effective music on a podium until you can be vulnerable as a leader in front of that ensemble.
 What thought do you have for leaders breaking through some of those limits, those impressions of the past, to become vulnerable? How will that benefit their leadership?
 Romal: First, with your statement around nonprofits, as a friend of mine likes to say, instead of nonprofits, how about we use language like “for-purpose?” It is far more empowering. Your for-purpose organization.
 When it comes to leaders in the nonprofit sector, presidents and executive leadership teams, and even corporate in the same way, everyone has a story. Obviously, my journey is not like yours. But we all have stories that have shaped our lives. People tend to stay away from the wounded places because they still hurt, not realizing that by revisiting those stories that are sometimes uncomfortable, there is a way to look at them to see how they have shaped you and continue to show up in your thinking, your behavior, your beliefs, your interactions, so that you can take back from that past experience what it took from you, the confidence, the certainty, the self-awareness. Those experiences are part of your life, but they don’t get to define the rest of your life. When you do the work as a leader, what you are in essence doing is turning a wound into a scar. The scar is the evidence of healing. People don’t like dealing with their wounded places, and we don’t like them to do it either because when you are wounded, you bleed all over people. That is not helpful. But a scar is evidence of healing. That scar, when you do the work, gives you a deeper sense of empathy as a leader with the people you are engaging. It’s not in a sense just the work of getting people to perform a task, but it’s being able to empathize with their experience, their journey, their feelings in a way that allows you to connect such that they want to be a part of your team and want to be guided and led by you because you understand them as a person. You do not see them simply as a person who performs a task or makes a product.
 Vulnerability for the leader is not a sign of weakness. Vulnerability requires courage, transparency, and authenticity. As a leader, when you think about the great leaders of our generations, they have been vulnerable in a way that they have been able to articulate a story about themselves and others that people can see themselves as part of a deeper narrative, a bigger vision. You cannot cultivate deep vision without vulnerability. Why? Because vulnerability says that I cannot do it myself. I am not capable. I am finite. I need to surrender my understandings of who I am to something bigger than me. That requires vulnerability to admit that this requires more than me. I need you to get this done. There is a place we can go together, but I need you to help create that vision. That requires some vulnerability and some empathy.
 Hugh: Oh my goodness. Russell, you see why I love this guy. He just has great stuff to share. What are you thinking over there in Denver?
 Russell: There are a lot of things in there. A lot of problems that we have today hinge on this notion of separation. We think we are separate from each other. We are separate from God. We are out there on this island by ourselves. This notion that whatever we manifest in our lives, we have to come up with the power to do that, is ego-based. It keeps us falling short because what we do when we are in our natural state and flow is we let things be manifested through us by being connected with that power out there, with that source. I am not the source. When I rely on the source and let the source flow through me, all sorts of remarkable things can happen. Everything starts on the inside. Our outside results are a culmination of what is going on on the inside. When you come to a place where you figure that out, it’s tough because most of us have this thing called ego. There is this investment in looking good, no matter how things may be going. It could all be going to crap, but as long as I look good… It’s a mistake and assumption to operate in that way. We don’t have to be perfect. We don’t have to come up with everything. What a leader does is inspire vision in people and bring people along, knows exactly what he/she does not have and goes out and gets that. To build that vision and to make things come to fruition. A lot of times, there is this inner resistance. That is human; that is natural. When my inner resistance is up on anything, that is a signal to me that I want to change how I look at it.
 Hugh: The vulnerability thing is key, isn’t it, Romal?
 Romal: It is indeed because when we talk about vision, I think a solid, healthy leader first has a healthy vision for his/her life. You can’t take people where you haven’t been or at least are on the journey to yourself. To the whole notion of people wanting to have the appearance of life is well and things are going well, I was doing that. I was making a significant amount of money, and I could check all the boxes from education, graduate student body president, magna cum laude, all that stuff, two homes, fancy cars, able to travel. I had the appearance of a good life, but there was this internal angst that I still lacked peace of mind. That was simply because I was under the assumption that if I attained enough and purchased enough and had enough, I would eventually feel like I am enough. The problem is that that is a leaky bucket approach. The wound was internal.
 In order to feel like enough, I had to believe that for myself, that nothing outside of me could produce that in me. As the book says, it was an inside job. I had to deal with those places in me that felt incomplete and deal with why did I feel like I wasn’t enough yet? What was going on with me? When I looked around me, I should have been feeling pretty awesome about myself and about life because on the surface, things looked great. I had to realize that the pursuit of success did not deliver on the promise. I thought the promise was I will have joy and happiness. Happiness was temporary. You buy a new car until the car needs to go to the shop. You buy a new house. You’re happy until some plumbing breaks. I wanted joy. I wanted a state of being that no matter what my environment and circumstances, I could say I loved my life. I was at a place where I could not make that statement honestly. I yearned for the ability to love my life no matter what. I wanted to put away the façade. That required doing the inner work. I found that in doing it, I feel lighter. I can appreciate life. I can look around me and be fully present, not only to the life I am living, but also to the people who are in it. I can sit in meetings and not just wait for my turn to speak, but be fully present and listen and ask questions and have an interest rather than just an agenda. I am free. To Russell’s point, I have everything I need, even if it is not in front of me. It is all based upon how I see life and who I believe I am in the context of the world and what is acceptable, what is available to me.
  To get to that place requires vulnerability. That vulnerability leads you into humility. If you are courageous enough to be honest with yourself about who you truly desire to be in the world and ask yourself what is keeping me from becoming my best self in my lifetime, then you come to the conclusion that I am what is keeping me from that. My beliefs about myself, the parts of my story I haven’t dealt with. If I truly want to be the best version of me in my lifetime, let me be man or woman enough to let me confront those narratives and redeem what they took from me so I can live life to its fullest.
 Hugh: There is a trend now of big celebrities, like Jay Z, the Rock. There is a trend for people to openly talk about vulnerability. You made the pivot. Did you have a counselor or coach or therapist, somebody that was helping you reframe things to break through to feeling comfortable? You were on stage. I was in the second row watching you. You were open and vulnerable. You were transparent. The audience could really connect with you almost immediately. Was there someone working with you? It’s hard to do it by ourselves, isn’t it?
 Romal: I don’t think we are capable of doing it by ourselves. I have a therapist. In fact, this past weekend we were in South Carolina together conducting a workshop. I created a workshop based on Love is an Inside Job called Clere-Conscience: Using the Past to Heal the Present. We conducted a four-hour workshop on Saturday.
 Having a therapist, someone I can talk to, as a friend of mine says, she is a doctor, her therapist calls herself her compassionate witness. Having that compassionate witness in my life that I can be fully honest with after having trusted each other where I can tell him the whole truth without shame and judgment for the sake of guidance. Therapy helps. Every great leader I have ever talked to has a therapist. I tell people, especially in the faith community who shun therapy: If you broke your leg, you wouldn’t simply say, “God knows my leg is broken. Heal my leg, God. I don’t need to go to the doctor. You’re God, and You can heal it.” That doesn’t make good sense, and you probably wouldn’t do that because you know something is required from you for that kind of healing. The same with our wounded places emotionally. We need help at times to help heal those things that we can’t heal ourselves. It requires the same level of intention to identify a professional who can walk alongside you on a journey to becoming your best self.
 Hugh: The title that you suggested for this interview was men healing and how that impacts our leadership. Say a little more about what drove you to think of that title.
 Romal: When we were working on the book with my publisher, my editor made the comment that this is a book about healing men, and also as a book for the women who love them, simply because the book is written through the lens of my journey as a man and learning vulnerability and empathy and what love really is and expressing that and having healthy ways of affection and love through the lens of a man who is doing the work. There are stories about women and relationships and things of that sort. I believe that in some ways, when men are able to heal our stories, our beliefs about ourselves and about other people, we can now get rid of these false paradigms of what it means to be a man.
 I was just saying to a group of men over the weekend: We as men are rarely taught by the men who nurture us how to be happy. We are conditioned to be strong, stand on your own two feet, don’t cry, be a man, be strong, carry the way, endure the burdens. A man is able to endure burdens and carry the weight. That is what men do. No one ever said, “Hey, Hugh, here is what it looks like to be a happy grown man. Here is what it likes to be a man who is full of joy and peace of mind.” We didn’t get that. We were told these other things. Then what happens is you grow up, you get into a relationship with a woman, and she asks, “Tell me how you feel.” You don’t know what to do with that. “I could eat?” You got nothing. You are not conditioned to talk about how you feel. As young men, that is not how we are nurtured. We can do away with that false paradigm that men don’t have feelings of anxiety, fear, sadness, and doubt. We can get rid of that. It’s okay to express those things. It doesn’t make you less of a man, nor does it make you weak. It makes you smart enough to be a healthy man. That allows you to be in healthy relationships and to engage people in a healthy way without showing up with a façade that most people know is not the real truth anyway.
 Hugh: People say, “Man up, suck it up, deal with it.” We are this cement face. It’s a major journey to be a whole person. For those of us who grew up with that paradigm.
 Russell, if you have a question for our guest, lay it on him. This is a good time to give him a hard question.
 Russell: There is this thing called a male ego that gets us into trouble. You described some of the problems that we have. I am wondering if that narrative is starting to change. Are more men actually starting to get it? This whole Superman thing is killing him. Is the dynamic starting to shift with more men looking at it and saying, “Okay, I need to do something different because I can’t pick the world up on my shoulders here?” Do you see a movement in that direction? Do you see more change?
 Romal: Yes. The thing is, no one ever asks us to hold the world on our shoulders. We assume that is what men do. Rather than we can hold everything together as people living in community to bring about change or to live healthy lives, I think that there is a movement of sorts where people are really beginning to realize that these ideas that I had about identity and even ego have not served me well. They have not delivered on the promise. Aesthetically, when I look around, I have some things. But the thing I truly desire, this happiness, this joy, this sense of wholeness and fulfillment, who I was told to be in the world has not delivered that. And I am tired. I think more men and women are realizing they are tired. This game I have been playing, this mask I have been wearing, this armor I have been carrying is heavy. I want to lay it down so I can be free and whole. I am only getting to do this life thing once, and I want to leave unempty. I want to leave having become the best version of me I could possibly be in my lifetime. I want to live a life of meaning and fulfillment. That fulfillment means if I want to be filled with the essence of who I truly am in the world and let that flow from the inside out. That is why love is an inside job. I learned to love and value me. All I can see through the lens of that self-love is the love and value of others.
 Hugh: My wife bought a stack of your books. I am sure others did. There is discussion groups, especially with pastors. That is a unique position to be in. There is a lot of stress and assumptions, especially for male pastors, and women are helping change that paradigm. Another quote I like from James Allen’s book is: We don’t attract what we need; we attract what we are. Breaking through this vulnerability to this pattern of accepting our healing, it’s not a wound, it’s a scar, it’s a strength.
 I want to hear two things. What are you hoping will happen when people rally around and study your book? Especially to men as leaders in the church. After you say that, what was your journey, your value? We write books for other people, but amazing things happen to us when writing the book.
 Romal: There are several layers of what I hope will happen as people read the book. My desire is they find themselves in the book and begin to look at their own stories and engage in the process of doing the work to become whole themselves, to be their best selves through the lens of faith and therapy. I wanted to show that these things are not contradictions. Therapy is a way of honoring your faith.
 My hope is that people will be courageous enough to embark on their own journey of healing, to begin a deeper dialogue around our sense of self-worth and identity around our stories and how our stories have shaped us and the ways that we can begin to take control of our stories and play the lead in our lives and then create a new way forward.
 Next year, my plan is to have a men’s conference around emotional health and wellness with 1,000 men from across the country and host that here in Atlanta. We will be guided by breakout session and lead by therapists to deal with a whole host of issues.
 My Aha moment is in chapter seven, the chapter where it says “Getting Vulnerable with God and Honest with My Dad.” In January, my dad and I have not talked for ten years since my mom passed. My mom was free and clean of drugs for several years before she died of lung cancer. My dad came to her funeral. We didn’t have a great relationship, he and I. In the course of writing the book and now being a father myself, my editor asked me to talk about the healing process and the relationship with my father. As I was writing, she sent me a note, “I can’t use any of this.” I said, “Why not?” She said, “Because it reads like you are still angry. I need you to think about the relationship you have with your own kids, the level of grace you are going to need from them, and then offer that to your dad.” I realized that I was writing from the lens of a wounded child who was 16, not a 48-year-old man who has been on a journey of healing. The wounded teenager with his disappointments and frustrations and negative memories was guiding my hand. I had to step back and reflect and say, “That is not who I am anymore. Who I am is not based on who I was then. What would I say to my dad then based on being fully present in this moment at 48, the lessons I have learned, the wisdom, the grace I will need from my own children and the grace I offer others?” I penned that chapter differently.
 In real time, back in January of this year, my dad and I connected. I was speaking in Houston, and he lived 30 minutes from where I was speaking. We connected and had a great experience. I showed up not as a wounded teenager, but as a man who is on a journey of healing, who wants to be fully present and offer grace and love to people. That changed the dynamics of our interaction. That was my Aha moment. There is more on that in that chapter of Love is an Inside Job.
 Hugh: Which chapter is that?
 Romal: Chapter seven, “Getting Vulnerable with God and Honest with My Dad.” I write him a letter in the book.
 Hugh: That’s powerful. I can’t wait to get there.
 You act on your transformational thoughts. You actually transform yourself. So many people have thoughts and never do much about it. At 48, you have wisdom that far surpasses your years. You’re a no-nonsense person. What prompts you to want to ask these questions? The thread that you had through this interview is that you have listened to external advocates, external supporters, external pundits that talk to you and give you feedback. So many leaders pooh-pooh that and then don’t pay attention and don’t act on it. But you have demonstrated that this transparency and vulnerability has helped you. What is underneath that that says to you, “I am going to do something about this?”
 Romal: Honestly, my own mortality. My mom passed 11 years ago. She was 53. She died of lung cancer. Ever since her death, I have had a very keen awareness of my own mortality. That guides me because I am constantly aware of I don’t know how long I get to be here. To put things off is tempting fate and time. I really want to be the best version of me in my lifetime, and I don’t know how long that is. I don’t want to waste time pretending or putting things off. When I think about the internal peace that I desire, the level of joy and happiness I desire, I don’t want to be the reason that I put that off for myself. When I think about being the best version of me in my lifetime and not knowing how long that is going to be, I can’t assume that I have time to waste. If I have time to waste, I then have to question why am I wasting it, and what am I wasting it on? There is no value in that to living my best life while I have it. I try my best to remove the gray areas. I don’t always get it right. But I offer myself grace along the way. I celebrate even the smallest victories in my life that are pushing me in the direction of wholeness. I am really compelled by that. My awareness of my humanity and my mortality. I get to do this once, and I want this journey to be amazing.
 Hugh: Wow. That is so key. We have two websites listed on The Nonprofit Exchange. It’s RomalTune.com. There is a place to see your books and connect and get a book. There’s an About You and some videos there with you speaking. There is also a place they can find out about you speaking. Give us the URL for the nonprofit. Tell us what your passion was to start that.
 Romal: Love is an Inside Jobis available on all bookselling platforms.
 My nonprofit The ClereStory Education Fund started out in my own giving just over ten years ago. The name has changed. The website is ClereStoryWorks.org. The clerestory is an architectural term. It’s the highest level of a wall containing windows that let in light. If you were ever to Google “clerestory” and look at a picture, you will typically see churches with ceilings with windows that are above eye level with light shining in. We use it as a metaphor in saying that through the ClereStory workshops, we take a high level look at your life and shine light on the stories that have shaped who you believe you are in the world. Through ClereStory, we conduct workshops on creating a healthy vision for your life.
 We have one called Clere-Economics where we help you understand and value money through the lens of your story and your economic narrative and how it shaped you and how to write a new narrative. We have one called Clere-Conscience, where we deal with emotional health and wellness. Through the money that is generated from the workshops and my speaking engagements, we have a fund where we provide stipends and tuition assistance for kids from challenging circumstances who otherwise would not get a college education without the help from others, which has been a part of my story. My ability to live the life I have now is because of the generosity of strangers when I was unable to do for myself.            
 Hugh: That is profound. You can go to TheNonprofitExchange.org, and the video for this interview will be there, as well as the links for those two sites.
 Russell, what are you thinking? Got some more questions for our guest?
 Russell: We have covered a lot of things. A lot of things take place in the mind. The mind is our friend. It can be compatible with spirit. We talked a lot about doing things on an emotional and mental level. There is a spiritual component that goes into this. It’s a connection with a power greater than ourselves that can’t be defined by anybody else. It’s a personal connection. How much does that play into your work? Actual mindfulness practice, prayer, meditation, how much do those factor into the work you do?
 Romal: Great questions. Prayer meditation is essential to me. The more I have learned about meditation and talking with Richard Rohr and reading and listening to different podcasts, the more I meditate- Prayer and meditation are different for me. The paradigm I learned when I got into the church for prayer is that I did all the talking and I did all the asking. Specifically, prayer was about, “Hey God, I need some stuff.” Whatever stuff was, from healing to a car. You name it. It was like, “God, can You help a brother out?” Meditation was more God doing the talking and me doing the listening.
 Meditation was harder initially because I was used to doing all the talking and didn’t even know how to listen for God. The ability to meditate, be still, and deal with the thoughts that are coming in and not try to push them away but receive them and then let them go- That stillness practice has shown up in so many other ways in my life. I am more patient with life and the world and situations. I remember one time sitting in traffic and realizing I wasn’t annoyed and totally not acting like I didn’t know Christ in that traffic. I was able to be still. I was okay. I thought to myself, I have the ability to be still for 20 minutes every day. I can be still and fully present. If I break up this moment in this traffic into 20-minute increments, this is nothing. I can be present. I can reflect now. But meditation and prayer play an essential role in this journey. I talk about that in the book. Through meditation, I am able to listen for God.
 I have come to a place where I am able to bring everything to God. That means my broken places. The Bible says, God will give you beauty for ashes. I am willing to bring God my ashes. I think sometimes people will say, “Well, God already knows all that painful stuff. Why do you have to say it?” Because this is a conversation. It’s a relationship. God knows. God wants to know that you are aware of yourself and you are aware of your own places that need healing. Giving the voice to it is powerful. As Brene Brown always says, the shame thrives in silence, but when you name it and give voice to it, it loses its power. In the presence of God during prayer, naming it, I am freed from the power of shame and guilt and doubt because I am able to surrender it. I have often thought that life was about fighting to achieve. What I have realized that everything I have thought I’ve had to fight for, it was never about fighting; it was about surrender. The Bible says, “The battle is not yours; it’s the Lord’s.” I get that now. So much of the fulfillment I have wanted for myself actually requires surrender. The piece I want requires surrender. The love I want requires surrender. The life that I wanted requires surrender. Prayer meditation plays an integral part. My favorite scripture, Jeremiah 29:11: I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. Plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you hope and future. That is in fact true. God has a plan to prosper you, not to harm you, plans to give you hope and the future. You don’t have to fight for that. You have to surrender to it. It’s already there for you to receive. Just say yes. Allow yourself to experience it rather than think you have to go to battle for everything. The battle is already won.
 Hugh: Is your relationship with God a requirement for inner healing?
 Romal: I think that whether you have a relationship with God or not, God has a relationship with you. A person not being aware of God does not mean that God is not aware of that person. God’s plan is not based on whether you are aware of God. God says I know the plan I have for you. You didn’t create yourself, so you don’t tell yourself what you were created for. In many ways, whether you know it or not, even if you don’t know it, the hand of God is still moving. God’s righteousness and purpose falls on the just and the unjust. God’s grace, right? You don’t have to be aware of it to receive grace. You don’t have to be aware of it to receive God’s love. I think you appreciate it more, you are able to express gratitude more when you are aware that it’s not you, that it’s a God who is better than you, who is directing His path.
 I use a metaphor, the Duke Ellington of your life. I love jazz. The Duke was able to take all of these different instruments, and he never asked the trumpet to be the sax or the sax to be the bass. He said, “Just follow my lead. Be the best version of you that you can be. Follow my cues, and we will make something beautiful together.” I think if we follow God’s lead and just try to be ourselves and not try to be someone else, God makes some pretty beautiful things happen. When we are aware, we can celebrate that with a greater sense of gratitude. Gratitude is a path to a greater life. Yes, that healing can come whether you are aware that it’s God or not. I think there is a greater sense of joy and peace and gratitude and adoration when you realize that there is a God that loves you enough. God doesn’t remove God’s presence from everything that you have already created for.
 Hugh: Whoa. That’s really good.
 As we are ending this really awesome interview, Romal, what do you want to leave people with?
 Romal: You asked a question. You said you are a no-nonsense person; what is behind all of this? I think what I would want to leave people with is from this moment forward, you have an opportunity to be the best version of you that you can possibly be in your lifetime. Every moment in your life is an opportunity to say yes to grace and yes to who you are truly meant to be, yes to the peace of mind, the joy, the fulfillment that is your deepest yearning, that sense of connection, that sense of value. It begins with you saying yes to it. I would leave people with that reality that everything you desire, who you desire to be, who you are meant to be, the answer is already yes. You just have to pursue it and be unapologetically and authentically you.
 Hugh: Romal Tune, you’re awesome. Thank you for spending this hour with us on The Nonprofit Exchangesharing your wisdom with the world. Thank you so much.
 Romal: It’s been my pleasure, Hugh. Russell, it’s been great to meet you, and I have enjoyed being here.
 Russell: Always a pleasure. Many thanks. What our lives are about and the way that we become- To increase our understanding and effectiveness and to be a maximum service to people around us, it’s all about raising our level of consciousness, whatever that means to you. Raise that level of consciousness, and more things are possible.
 Hugh: Thank you, folks.
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<strong>Romal Tune:<br></strong><strong>What Happens When Men Heal? The Impact of Life, Leadership, and Legacy!</strong>
</h1> <p> </p> <p><strong>Romal Tune</strong> is committed to this five-word sentence:</p> <p>“Help the hurting find healing.”</p> <p>He equips people to heal the wounds of their past, bravely</p> <p>offering his own journey as a case study of raw transparency and refreshing honesty. Romal is dedicated to helping others overcome shame, self-doubt, and self-sabotage and discover a new path to wholeness. This commitment is rooted in the <strong>Belief</strong></p> <p>that whole people comprise communities that are economically viable, emotionally healthy, and socially responsible.</p> <p>As a speaker, seminar leader and author, Romal guides audienceces to discover</p> <p>and embrace their unique stories. He is a global leader who equips individuals,</p> <p>organizations and institutions to recover from setbacks and achieve success by acknowledging the past embracing the future.</p> <p>For more information go to <strong><a href="https://romaltune.com/">https://RomalTune.com</a></strong></p> <p><a href="https://clerestoryworks.org/">https://clerestoryworks.org</a></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Transcript of the Interview with Romal Tune</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Russell, welcome.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Greetings. Happy Tuesday.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell David Dennis, co-host every week. We broadcast live on Tuesdays at 2 pm on Facebook. We record for the podcast, which you can find on iTunes or anywhere you find podcasts.</p> <p>Oh my goodness, I heard this guy last Saturday. It was amazing. He was a keynote speaker at the Methodist Conference in Virginia. It was a whole conference about race, diversity, and how to rethink how we relate to each other. I was so impressed with him that I called him up and asked him to be on the podcast. He said yes. Here we are. Romal Tune, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em></p> <p><strong>Romal Tune:</strong> Thanks for having me on. It’s good to be with you guys.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Did I say your name right?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> You did.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It has a really neat ring to it, Romal. We don’t make a practice of reading long, boring introductions. We like for our guests to introduce themselves. Tell us about yourself, your background, what’s brought you here, basically your story. What’s your passion?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> My passion is I am a storyteller. I love to tell stories of redemption. That comes out of my own life experiences growing up in northern California in the bay area. I lived in San Francisco and throughout the bay area. Inner city kid. Life challenges. Mom was a substance abuser and had some challenges with alcohol and addiction. But that wasn’t her whole story. Prior to that, she worked in the world of banking. Oddly enough, her success led her into addiction. We lost everything by the time I was in middle school. Went to live with my grandparents. At the age of 16, I moved to New Jersey and lived with my dad until I graduated high school. Signed up in the army. Desert Storm ’88-’92. Accepted to Howard University. Went to Howard from ’92-’96. Plan was to go to medical school. After I graduated from Howard, I was preparing to take the MCAT and working as a clinical research associate on phase 3 pharmaceutical studies.</p> <p>Working in a church. Volunteering and teaching some Bible studies. Didn’t grow up in the church. I ended up in the church simply because I had a girlfriend who went to church. She said, “If you want to be with me, you have to go to church.” I said, “Okay, praise the Lord, whatever it takes.” Had a passion for it. Realized one day sitting at my desk at a pharmaceutical company, phase 3 studies, I had a Bible study lesson and realized I loved the teaching and I probably would have been a really good doctor, but I wanted to go into ministry. I went to Duke University for graduate school and got a degree in religion. Never really worked in a church full-time.</p> <p>About 12 years ago, I started my own consulting company doing strategy and public relations in a variety of settings from corporate to large nonprofits, political campaigns, doing strategy and faith community strategy. Wrote a book four years ago. That book told my story of my journeys and challenges in the inner city and how I overcame them.</p> <p>Most recently, I wrote another book entitled <em>Love is an Inside Job: Getting Vulnerable with God.</em> There it is, Hugh is holding it up. That book is really about a journey of a life of fulfillment through the lens of therapy and faith. It deals with vulnerability. I always tell people, if you know Brene Brown, I am Brother Brown. I talk about my journey and the journeys of others that have had to overcome life challenges to find a deeper sense of meaning, fulfillment, and the very real way, peace of mind that is rooted and healing in your story, having a clearer sense of who you really are in the world, and letting everything flow from the inside out so that your success is actually an outward expression of internal wholeness rather than expecting those things outside of you to make you feel whole. I learned the hard way that it doesn’t work. Everything flows from the inside out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is amazing. You studied with Will Willimon at Duke, didn’t you?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> I did have a class with Will Willimon, yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> He has been a guest on this podcast. As you might imagine, he had some profound things to say. You had an amazing story about writing a letter to Richard Rohr, who is quite the influencer. He gave you time and spent the day with you. Is that right?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> This was even before I knew I was going to have a book coming out. I did not have a book deal at the time. I came across a friend on social media who posted a Rohr quote about daily meditations. It was powerful. I started following him, getting those meditations via email every night. Some friends were planning a retreat with Richard. I didn’t know him. They were asking me for some advice around strategy. I said, “Here is the deal. I will help you with strategy free of charge if you somehow connect me with Richard Rohr. I am a big fan. I have been reading his books. I get his meditations.” They couldn’t guarantee it. He had been ill at the time, battling prostate cancer. They introduced me to his executive director via email. I wrote a letter. He gave it to Richard. Literally, I would say two days before Christmas, Richard Rohr emailed me himself and said, “Hey, I am recovering from prostate cancer. I am feeling better. I have been reading the letters. Yours is the first one I read. We can do a call if that’s what you’d like, or if you have time, you can come and I will spend the day with you here in New Mexico.” I did that. I booked the ticket. We identified a day, and I spent a full day from 9 in the morning until about 8 at night just hanging out with Richard Rohr, asking questions. He asked me a lot of questions. Oddly enough, some of his questions were specifically around race, and mine were around meditation and understanding my story through the lens of healing and redemption. We started building a friendship. We stay in touch quite regularly.</p> <p>When <em>Love is an Inside Job</em> was ready to come out, I asked him to write an endorsement, so you will see it in the book. Bob Goff is in there and Parker Palmer. People I have been fortunate enough to meet along the way.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Richard Rohr says, “This book fully engages you from the very first page with deep humanity, dear honesty, and yes, vulnerability.” Having that kind of quote from Richard Rohr is a big deal. If people listening to this podcast don’t know the name Richard Rohr, he is a person who will help you shift your paradigm and rethink your basic tenets of faith and your journey will be empowered in a very different way.</p> <p>Romal, I will help you with your strategy if you will introduce me to Richard Rohr.</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> Deal.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> My wife couldn’t put this book down. It’s on my queue. I have two ahead of it.</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> I don’t know who those other two books are.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> They are other friends. I do have a lot of author friends. I have already read it because she reads it to me. She is not reading anything else. She is finishing your book. It is profound.</p> <p>We talked about Richard Rohr shifting the paradigm. When I heard you speak, you were on for two and a half hours.</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> Two hours you had to endure me talking.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It went by fast. It went by fast.</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> That’s called a nap, Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I took notes. You helped us look at things in a different light. Go backwards a little bit. You pivoted, when your girlfriend said, “If you want to see me, you have to go to church.” You studied for Bible study. You were digging into the scripture. You didn’t grow up with this tradition. In a way, you have a way of seeing this in a very fresh light. What was the biggest pivot for you to go from where you were to where you are?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> There have been multiple shifts and pivots along the way. I think the first was with church, it gave me the first opportunity to shift my narrative and find a new way of being in the world. Much of my story and my identity in terms of who I believed I could become in the world, my capabilities, were shaped by my experiences growing up in a very challenging environment, which created some self-doubt, some insecurities, some uncertainty about the direction of life. Becoming a follower of Jesus in the context of a Christian community gave me some other people to be around to look at how different their lives were from mine and how their faith played a role in their lives. I was able to then look at how might my faith propel me in different directions and shape a new narrative for me? That was the first pivot.</p> <p>For many people, when they come into the church like I did, you not only begin to have a deeper relationship with God and your faith, but you also at the same time are learning how to do church. It’s like even in the workplace, you go in, you are selected for a specific task, but you are also learning the culture of that environment and what it looks like to succeed there. In the church world, you are also learning what it is like to succeed in church, to be okay there, where to sit, where not to sit, what things you can do, what things you can’t do, how to schedule a meeting room and the politics of space. I learned how to do church in the midst of growing my faith and then realized that in that process, I was also needing to suppress a part of my identity in terms of my upbringing and challenges I faced that were not welcomed in the church, at least the kind of church I was in. It was more based on who you are now rather than the story that brought you here. Those things play out in the workplace, too. We are oftentimes conditioned to leave certain parts of us at home so that we can function at a high level, at least at what we think is a high level in that context, not realizing the only way to truly function at a high level is to bring all of you into context, in the workplace or in the church, because nothing is wasted. There is wisdom in your story.</p> <p>The next pivot was actually withdrawing from church. There is a chapter in the book where it says in order to save my faith, I had to lose my religion. To draw closer to God required retracting from the things that I thought were the structured boundaries of who God could and could not be for me, which were some of the social norms of church rather than the actual Biblical narrative of how God uses all of your story and can redeem it. There is power in your broken places that can help heal others. Spending that time alone with friends who were of the faith, who were still in church, I was able to redefine myself based on a deeper relationship with God that had more room than the walls of the church.</p> <p>The next iteration is what I call the altar call, the return back to the community within the context of the congregation. But now bringing all of me into that context.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. We are speaking to leaders out there who are running what we reframe the popular name is “nonprofit.” We are the only industry in the world who defines ourselves by what we are not. We are really a social profit. We are a social benefit. We are a tax-exempt charity. We are a business that has special rules and provides impact for people’s lives. Lots of things that we are. I experience a whole lot of leaders that define themselves by the damage of their past. They’re limited because of their family heritage. You met my wife, Leigh Anne Taylor. Just before you left, she got a stack of your books.</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> Thank her again.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> They will be put to good use, I’m sure. We have been studying the work of Murray Bowen. It’s learning about our family of origin, but it’s not to blame. It’s to understand ourselves. When I listen to you talk about your story, it’s been a remarkable pivot for you not being bound by the past. James Allen wrote this book years ago called <em>As a Man Thinketh.</em> In there, reframing the language, he said people want to change their circumstances but are unwilling to change themselves. They therefore remain bound. I am tracking this as vulnerability. Brene Brown has been out there and visible. In my world of conducting, James Jordan has a book out called <em>The Musician’s Soul.</em> He says you cannot make effective music on a podium until you can be vulnerable as a leader in front of that ensemble.</p> <p>What thought do you have for leaders breaking through some of those limits, those impressions of the past, to become vulnerable? How will that benefit their leadership?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> First, with your statement around nonprofits, as a friend of mine likes to say, instead of nonprofits, how about we use language like “for-purpose?” It is far more empowering. Your for-purpose organization.</p> <p>When it comes to leaders in the nonprofit sector, presidents and executive leadership teams, and even corporate in the same way, everyone has a story. Obviously, my journey is not like yours. But we all have stories that have shaped our lives. People tend to stay away from the wounded places because they still hurt, not realizing that by revisiting those stories that are sometimes uncomfortable, there is a way to look at them to see how they have shaped you and continue to show up in your thinking, your behavior, your beliefs, your interactions, so that you can take back from that past experience what it took from you, the confidence, the certainty, the self-awareness. Those experiences are part of your life, but they don’t get to define the rest of your life. When you do the work as a leader, what you are in essence doing is turning a wound into a scar. The scar is the evidence of healing. People don’t like dealing with their wounded places, and we don’t like them to do it either because when you are wounded, you bleed all over people. That is not helpful. But a scar is evidence of healing. That scar, when you do the work, gives you a deeper sense of empathy as a leader with the people you are engaging. It’s not in a sense just the work of getting people to perform a task, but it’s being able to empathize with their experience, their journey, their feelings in a way that allows you to connect such that they want to be a part of your team and want to be guided and led by you because you understand them as a person. You do not see them simply as a person who performs a task or makes a product.</p> <p>Vulnerability for the leader is not a sign of weakness. Vulnerability requires courage, transparency, and authenticity. As a leader, when you think about the great leaders of our generations, they have been vulnerable in a way that they have been able to articulate a story about themselves and others that people can see themselves as part of a deeper narrative, a bigger vision. You cannot cultivate deep vision without vulnerability. Why? Because vulnerability says that I cannot do it myself. I am not capable. I am finite. I need to surrender my understandings of who I am to something bigger than me. That requires vulnerability to admit that this requires more than me. I need you to get this done. There is a place we can go together, but I need you to help create that vision. That requires some vulnerability and some empathy.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my goodness. Russell, you see why I love this guy. He just has great stuff to share. What are you thinking over there in Denver?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There are a lot of things in there. A lot of problems that we have today hinge on this notion of separation. We think we are separate from each other. We are separate from God. We are out there on this island by ourselves. This notion that whatever we manifest in our lives, we have to come up with the power to do that, is ego-based. It keeps us falling short because what we do when we are in our natural state and flow is we let things be manifested through us by being connected with that power out there, with that source. I am not the source. When I rely on the source and let the source flow through me, all sorts of remarkable things can happen. Everything starts on the inside. Our outside results are a culmination of what is going on on the inside. When you come to a place where you figure that out, it’s tough because most of us have this thing called ego. There is this investment in looking good, no matter how things may be going. It could all be going to crap, but as long as I look good… It’s a mistake and assumption to operate in that way. We don’t have to be perfect. We don’t have to come up with everything. What a leader does is inspire vision in people and bring people along, knows exactly what he/she does not have and goes out and gets that. To build that vision and to make things come to fruition. A lot of times, there is this inner resistance. That is human; that is natural. When my inner resistance is up on anything, that is a signal to me that I want to change how I look at it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The vulnerability thing is key, isn’t it, Romal?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> It is indeed because when we talk about vision, I think a solid, healthy leader first has a healthy vision for his/her life. You can’t take people where you haven’t been or at least are on the journey to yourself. To the whole notion of people wanting to have the appearance of life is well and things are going well, I was doing that. I was making a significant amount of money, and I could check all the boxes from education, graduate student body president, magna cum laude, all that stuff, two homes, fancy cars, able to travel. I had the appearance of a good life, but there was this internal angst that I still lacked peace of mind. That was simply because I was under the assumption that if I attained enough and purchased enough and had enough, I would eventually feel like I am enough. The problem is that that is a leaky bucket approach. The wound was internal.</p> <p>In order to feel like enough, I had to believe that for myself, that nothing outside of me could produce that in me. As the book says, it was an inside job. I had to deal with those places in me that felt incomplete and deal with why did I feel like I wasn’t enough yet? What was going on with me? When I looked around me, I should have been feeling pretty awesome about myself and about life because on the surface, things looked great. I had to realize that the pursuit of success did not deliver on the promise. I thought the promise was I will have joy and happiness. Happiness was temporary. You buy a new car until the car needs to go to the shop. You buy a new house. You’re happy until some plumbing breaks. I wanted joy. I wanted a state of being that no matter what my environment and circumstances, I could say I loved my life. I was at a place where I could not make that statement honestly. I yearned for the ability to love my life no matter what. I wanted to put away the façade. That required doing the inner work. I found that in doing it, I feel lighter. I can appreciate life. I can look around me and be fully present, not only to the life I am living, but also to the people who are in it. I can sit in meetings and not just wait for my turn to speak, but be fully present and listen and ask questions and have an interest rather than just an agenda. I am free. To Russell’s point, I have everything I need, even if it is not in front of me. It is all based upon how I see life and who I believe I am in the context of the world and what is acceptable, what is available to me.</p> <p> To get to that place requires vulnerability. That vulnerability leads you into humility. If you are courageous enough to be honest with yourself about who you truly desire to be in the world and ask yourself what is keeping me from becoming my best self in my lifetime, then you come to the conclusion that I am what is keeping me from that. My beliefs about myself, the parts of my story I haven’t dealt with. If I truly want to be the best version of me in my lifetime, let me be man or woman enough to let me confront those narratives and redeem what they took from me so I can live life to its fullest.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a trend now of big celebrities, like Jay Z, the Rock. There is a trend for people to openly talk about vulnerability. You made the pivot. Did you have a counselor or coach or therapist, somebody that was helping you reframe things to break through to feeling comfortable? You were on stage. I was in the second row watching you. You were open and vulnerable. You were transparent. The audience could really connect with you almost immediately. Was there someone working with you? It’s hard to do it by ourselves, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> I don’t think we are capable of doing it by ourselves. I have a therapist. In fact, this past weekend we were in South Carolina together conducting a workshop. I created a workshop based on <em>Love is an Inside Job</em> called Clere-Conscience: Using the Past to Heal the Present. We conducted a four-hour workshop on Saturday.</p> <p>Having a therapist, someone I can talk to, as a friend of mine says, she is a doctor, her therapist calls herself her compassionate witness. Having that compassionate witness in my life that I can be fully honest with after having trusted each other where I can tell him the whole truth without shame and judgment for the sake of guidance. Therapy helps. Every great leader I have ever talked to has a therapist. I tell people, especially in the faith community who shun therapy: If you broke your leg, you wouldn’t simply say, “God knows my leg is broken. Heal my leg, God. I don’t need to go to the doctor. You’re God, and You can heal it.” That doesn’t make good sense, and you probably wouldn’t do that because you know something is required from you for that kind of healing. The same with our wounded places emotionally. We need help at times to help heal those things that we can’t heal ourselves. It requires the same level of intention to identify a professional who can walk alongside you on a journey to becoming your best self.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The title that you suggested for this interview was men healing and how that impacts our leadership. Say a little more about what drove you to think of that title.</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> When we were working on the book with my publisher, my editor made the comment that this is a book about healing men, and also as a book for the women who love them, simply because the book is written through the lens of my journey as a man and learning vulnerability and empathy and what love really is and expressing that and having healthy ways of affection and love through the lens of a man who is doing the work. There are stories about women and relationships and things of that sort. I believe that in some ways, when men are able to heal our stories, our beliefs about ourselves and about other people, we can now get rid of these false paradigms of what it means to be a man.</p> <p>I was just saying to a group of men over the weekend: We as men are rarely taught by the men who nurture us how to be happy. We are conditioned to be strong, stand on your own two feet, don’t cry, be a man, be strong, carry the way, endure the burdens. A man is able to endure burdens and carry the weight. That is what men do. No one ever said, “Hey, Hugh, here is what it looks like to be a happy grown man. Here is what it likes to be a man who is full of joy and peace of mind.” We didn’t get that. We were told these other things. Then what happens is you grow up, you get into a relationship with a woman, and she asks, “Tell me how you feel.” You don’t know what to do with that. “I could eat?” You got nothing. You are not conditioned to talk about how you feel. As young men, that is not how we are nurtured. We can do away with that false paradigm that men don’t have feelings of anxiety, fear, sadness, and doubt. We can get rid of that. It’s okay to express those things. It doesn’t make you less of a man, nor does it make you weak. It makes you smart enough to be a healthy man. That allows you to be in healthy relationships and to engage people in a healthy way without showing up with a façade that most people know is not the real truth anyway.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> People say, “Man up, suck it up, deal with it.” We are this cement face. It’s a major journey to be a whole person. For those of us who grew up with that paradigm.</p> <p>Russell, if you have a question for our guest, lay it on him. This is a good time to give him a hard question.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There is this thing called a male ego that gets us into trouble. You described some of the problems that we have. I am wondering if that narrative is starting to change. Are more men actually starting to get it? This whole Superman thing is killing him. Is the dynamic starting to shift with more men looking at it and saying, “Okay, I need to do something different because I can’t pick the world up on my shoulders here?” Do you see a movement in that direction? Do you see more change?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> Yes. The thing is, no one ever asks us to hold the world on our shoulders. We assume that is what men do. Rather than we can hold everything together as people living in community to bring about change or to live healthy lives, I think that there is a movement of sorts where people are really beginning to realize that these ideas that I had about identity and even ego have not served me well. They have not delivered on the promise. Aesthetically, when I look around, I have some things. But the thing I truly desire, this happiness, this joy, this sense of wholeness and fulfillment, who I was told to be in the world has not delivered that. And I am tired. I think more men and women are realizing they are tired. This game I have been playing, this mask I have been wearing, this armor I have been carrying is heavy. I want to lay it down so I can be free and whole. I am only getting to do this life thing once, and I want to leave unempty. I want to leave having become the best version of me I could possibly be in my lifetime. I want to live a life of meaning and fulfillment. That fulfillment means if I want to be filled with the essence of who I truly am in the world and let that flow from the inside out. That is why love is an inside job. I learned to love and value me. All I can see through the lens of that self-love is the love and value of others.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> My wife bought a stack of your books. I am sure others did. There is discussion groups, especially with pastors. That is a unique position to be in. There is a lot of stress and assumptions, especially for male pastors, and women are helping change that paradigm. Another quote I like from James Allen’s book is: We don’t attract what we need; we attract what we are. Breaking through this vulnerability to this pattern of accepting our healing, it’s not a wound, it’s a scar, it’s a strength.</p> <p>I want to hear two things. What are you hoping will happen when people rally around and study your book? Especially to men as leaders in the church. After you say that, what was your journey, your value? We write books for other people, but amazing things happen to us when writing the book.</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> There are several layers of what I hope will happen as people read the book. My desire is they find themselves in the book and begin to look at their own stories and engage in the process of doing the work to become whole themselves, to be their best selves through the lens of faith and therapy. I wanted to show that these things are not contradictions. Therapy is a way of honoring your faith.</p> <p>My hope is that people will be courageous enough to embark on their own journey of healing, to begin a deeper dialogue around our sense of self-worth and identity around our stories and how our stories have shaped us and the ways that we can begin to take control of our stories and play the lead in our lives and then create a new way forward.</p> <p>Next year, my plan is to have a men’s conference around emotional health and wellness with 1,000 men from across the country and host that here in Atlanta. We will be guided by breakout session and lead by therapists to deal with a whole host of issues.</p> <p>My Aha moment is in chapter seven, the chapter where it says “Getting Vulnerable with God and Honest with My Dad.” In January, my dad and I have not talked for ten years since my mom passed. My mom was free and clean of drugs for several years before she died of lung cancer. My dad came to her funeral. We didn’t have a great relationship, he and I. In the course of writing the book and now being a father myself, my editor asked me to talk about the healing process and the relationship with my father. As I was writing, she sent me a note, “I can’t use any of this.” I said, “Why not?” She said, “Because it reads like you are still angry. I need you to think about the relationship you have with your own kids, the level of grace you are going to need from them, and then offer that to your dad.” I realized that I was writing from the lens of a wounded child who was 16, not a 48-year-old man who has been on a journey of healing. The wounded teenager with his disappointments and frustrations and negative memories was guiding my hand. I had to step back and reflect and say, “That is not who I am anymore. Who I am is not based on who I was then. What would I say to my dad then based on being fully present in this moment at 48, the lessons I have learned, the wisdom, the grace I will need from my own children and the grace I offer others?” I penned that chapter differently.</p> <p>In real time, back in January of this year, my dad and I connected. I was speaking in Houston, and he lived 30 minutes from where I was speaking. We connected and had a great experience. I showed up not as a wounded teenager, but as a man who is on a journey of healing, who wants to be fully present and offer grace and love to people. That changed the dynamics of our interaction. That was my Aha moment. There is more on that in that chapter of <em>Love is an Inside Job.</em></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Which chapter is that?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> Chapter seven, “Getting Vulnerable with God and Honest with My Dad.” I write him a letter in the book.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s powerful. I can’t wait to get there.</p> <p>You act on your transformational thoughts. You actually transform yourself. So many people have thoughts and never do much about it. At 48, you have wisdom that far surpasses your years. You’re a no-nonsense person. What prompts you to want to ask these questions? The thread that you had through this interview is that you have listened to external advocates, external supporters, external pundits that talk to you and give you feedback. So many leaders pooh-pooh that and then don’t pay attention and don’t act on it. But you have demonstrated that this transparency and vulnerability has helped you. What is underneath that that says to you, “I am going to do something about this?”</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> Honestly, my own mortality. My mom passed 11 years ago. She was 53. She died of lung cancer. Ever since her death, I have had a very keen awareness of my own mortality. That guides me because I am constantly aware of I don’t know how long I get to be here. To put things off is tempting fate and time. I really want to be the best version of me in my lifetime, and I don’t know how long that is. I don’t want to waste time pretending or putting things off. When I think about the internal peace that I desire, the level of joy and happiness I desire, I don’t want to be the reason that I put that off for myself. When I think about being the best version of me in my lifetime and not knowing how long that is going to be, I can’t assume that I have time to waste. If I have time to waste, I then have to question why am I wasting it, and what am I wasting it on? There is no value in that to living my best life while I have it. I try my best to remove the gray areas. I don’t always get it right. But I offer myself grace along the way. I celebrate even the smallest victories in my life that are pushing me in the direction of wholeness. I am really compelled by that. My awareness of my humanity and my mortality. I get to do this once, and I want this journey to be amazing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. That is so key. We have two websites listed on <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> It’s RomalTune.com. There is a place to see your books and connect and get a book. There’s an About You and some videos there with you speaking. There is also a place they can find out about you speaking. Give us the URL for the nonprofit. Tell us what your passion was to start that.</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> <em>Love is an Inside Job</em>is available on all bookselling platforms.</p> <p>My nonprofit The ClereStory Education Fund started out in my own giving just over ten years ago. The name has changed. The website is ClereStoryWorks.org. The clerestory is an architectural term. It’s the highest level of a wall containing windows that let in light. If you were ever to Google “clerestory” and look at a picture, you will typically see churches with ceilings with windows that are above eye level with light shining in. We use it as a metaphor in saying that through the ClereStory workshops, we take a high level look at your life and shine light on the stories that have shaped who you believe you are in the world. Through ClereStory, we conduct workshops on creating a healthy vision for your life.</p> <p>We have one called Clere-Economics where we help you understand and value money through the lens of your story and your economic narrative and how it shaped you and how to write a new narrative. We have one called Clere-Conscience, where we deal with emotional health and wellness. Through the money that is generated from the workshops and my speaking engagements, we have a fund where we provide stipends and tuition assistance for kids from challenging circumstances who otherwise would not get a college education without the help from others, which has been a part of my story. My ability to live the life I have now is because of the generosity of strangers when I was unable to do for myself.            </p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is profound. You can go to TheNonprofitExchange.org, and the video for this interview will be there, as well as the links for those two sites.</p> <p>Russell, what are you thinking? Got some more questions for our guest?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> We have covered a lot of things. A lot of things take place in the mind. The mind is our friend. It can be compatible with spirit. We talked a lot about doing things on an emotional and mental level. There is a spiritual component that goes into this. It’s a connection with a power greater than ourselves that can’t be defined by anybody else. It’s a personal connection. How much does that play into your work? Actual mindfulness practice, prayer, meditation, how much do those factor into the work you do?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> Great questions. Prayer meditation is essential to me. The more I have learned about meditation and talking with Richard Rohr and reading and listening to different podcasts, the more I meditate- Prayer and meditation are different for me. The paradigm I learned when I got into the church for prayer is that I did all the talking and I did all the asking. Specifically, prayer was about, “Hey God, I need some stuff.” Whatever stuff was, from healing to a car. You name it. It was like, “God, can You help a brother out?” Meditation was more God doing the talking and me doing the listening.</p> <p>Meditation was harder initially because I was used to doing all the talking and didn’t even know how to listen for God. The ability to meditate, be still, and deal with the thoughts that are coming in and not try to push them away but receive them and then let them go- That stillness practice has shown up in so many other ways in my life. I am more patient with life and the world and situations. I remember one time sitting in traffic and realizing I wasn’t annoyed and totally not acting like I didn’t know Christ in that traffic. I was able to be still. I was okay. I thought to myself, I have the ability to be still for 20 minutes every day. I can be still and fully present. If I break up this moment in this traffic into 20-minute increments, this is nothing. I can be present. I can reflect now. But meditation and prayer play an essential role in this journey. I talk about that in the book. Through meditation, I am able to listen for God.</p> <p>I have come to a place where I am able to bring everything to God. That means my broken places. The Bible says, God will give you beauty for ashes. I am willing to bring God my ashes. I think sometimes people will say, “Well, God already knows all that painful stuff. Why do you have to say it?” Because this is a conversation. It’s a relationship. God knows. God wants to know that you are aware of yourself and you are aware of your own places that need healing. Giving the voice to it is powerful. As Brene Brown always says, the shame thrives in silence, but when you name it and give voice to it, it loses its power. In the presence of God during prayer, naming it, I am freed from the power of shame and guilt and doubt because I am able to surrender it. I have often thought that life was about fighting to achieve. What I have realized that everything I have thought I’ve had to fight for, it was never about fighting; it was about surrender. The Bible says, “The battle is not yours; it’s the Lord’s.” I get that now. So much of the fulfillment I have wanted for myself actually requires surrender. The piece I want requires surrender. The love I want requires surrender. The life that I wanted requires surrender. Prayer meditation plays an integral part. My favorite scripture, Jeremiah 29:11: I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. Plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you hope and future. That is in fact true. God has a plan to prosper you, not to harm you, plans to give you hope and the future. You don’t have to fight for that. You have to surrender to it. It’s already there for you to receive. Just say yes. Allow yourself to experience it rather than think you have to go to battle for everything. The battle is already won.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Is your relationship with God a requirement for inner healing?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> I think that whether you have a relationship with God or not, God has a relationship with you. A person not being aware of God does not mean that God is not aware of that person. God’s plan is not based on whether you are aware of God. God says I know the plan I have for you. You didn’t create yourself, so you don’t tell yourself what you were created for. In many ways, whether you know it or not, even if you don’t know it, the hand of God is still moving. God’s righteousness and purpose falls on the just and the unjust. God’s grace, right? You don’t have to be aware of it to receive grace. You don’t have to be aware of it to receive God’s love. I think you appreciate it more, you are able to express gratitude more when you are aware that it’s not you, that it’s a God who is better than you, who is directing His path.</p> <p>I use a metaphor, the Duke Ellington of your life. I love jazz. The Duke was able to take all of these different instruments, and he never asked the trumpet to be the sax or the sax to be the bass. He said, “Just follow my lead. Be the best version of you that you can be. Follow my cues, and we will make something beautiful together.” I think if we follow God’s lead and just try to be ourselves and not try to be someone else, God makes some pretty beautiful things happen. When we are aware, we can celebrate that with a greater sense of gratitude. Gratitude is a path to a greater life. Yes, that healing can come whether you are aware that it’s God or not. I think there is a greater sense of joy and peace and gratitude and adoration when you realize that there is a God that loves you enough. God doesn’t remove God’s presence from everything that you have already created for.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Whoa. That’s really good.</p> <p>As we are ending this really awesome interview, Romal, what do you want to leave people with?</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> You asked a question. You said you are a no-nonsense person; what is behind all of this? I think what I would want to leave people with is from this moment forward, you have an opportunity to be the best version of you that you can possibly be in your lifetime. Every moment in your life is an opportunity to say yes to grace and yes to who you are truly meant to be, yes to the peace of mind, the joy, the fulfillment that is your deepest yearning, that sense of connection, that sense of value. It begins with you saying yes to it. I would leave people with that reality that everything you desire, who you desire to be, who you are meant to be, the answer is already yes. You just have to pursue it and be unapologetically and authentically you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Romal Tune, you’re awesome. Thank you for spending this hour with us on <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em>sharing your wisdom with the world. Thank you so much.</p> <p><strong>Romal:</strong> It’s been my pleasure, Hugh. Russell, it’s been great to meet you, and I have enjoyed being here.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Always a pleasure. Many thanks. What our lives are about and the way that we become- To increase our understanding and effectiveness and to be a maximum service to people around us, it’s all about raising our level of consciousness, whatever that means to you. Raise that level of consciousness, and more things are possible.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you, folks.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Coming from Personal Trauma to Success and Helping Other Succeed</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/coming-from-personal-trauma-to-success-and-helping-other-succeed</link>
      <description>Barry Shore: Coming from Personal Trauma to Success and Helping Other Succeed
 Barry Shoreis an ambassador of Joy.
 Because of his successes in business and recovery from full body paralysis he has built an “Eco System of Good” internet platform that enables people to Give to their Favorite cause at No Cost.
 Barry was an instructor in the Diamond Program at the GIA, an author of a world wide resource book on diamonds and an international wholesale diamantaire with sales exceeding 100 Million dollars.
 After a brief retirement at age 33 he returned to business and built an international telephony company. From this grew an innovative process in 1999 that enabled faxes (sic) to be sent and received via email (think dial up) to 17 countries for FREE (!). Barry was awarded Two Patents in this space and built a stellar executive team. He then sold the Company 18 months later for more than $10 million dollars and the acquiring Company is today a $2 Billion market cap.
 Then he built a predecessor to Skype (enabling people to call to 17 Counties for FREE) which was funded and then bought within 9 months by a NASDQ company.
 Then on 17 September 2004 Barry became a quadriplegic  (paralyzed from his neck down!) overnight from a rare neurological disease (GBS).
 His journey since to regain mobility caused him to GO MAD: Go Make a Difference.
 He envisioned a Platform that enables People to GIVE Money to their Favorite CAUSE at NoCost to the Giver and attracted smart caring talented successful players to build the System.
 He has been granted a Patent in the process and has found the Formula to Create the “ECO System of GOOD”: where Supporters, Brands, Causes All Participate for Mutual Benefit.
 Barry’s Mission is to Make Everyday Giving Effortless and his Big Audacious  Goal is to facilitate the Giving of One Billion Dollars without costing any Giver a penny.
 He is the Founder of the KEEP SMILING Movement (thedailysmile.com) which has distributed more than 1.2 MILLION KEEP SMILING Cards throughout the world in 27 languages.
 He is the Founder of the MOL (minute of Love) Podcast produced 6X/week.
 He has become an avid swimmer (2 miles/day/6x/week) and has accumulated enough miles over 9 years to swim from Venice CA (his home) to Shanghai, China.
 Barry is focused on transforming the giving space.
 More Information at https://www.dlyted.com
 Here's the Transcript for the Interview
  
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou again on The Nonprofit Exchange. As usual, we have quite an amazing guest today. This guest and I have met passively over the last ten years here and there, just touching base. Recently, a mutual friend connected us, and there was some real synergy. I got to hear Barry’s story again. We all have stories. Very few of us are as good as telling the story as Barry. Barry, today, instead of my normal routine of giving us a bio and telling why you do what you’re doing, I think we are going to build this conversation around your story and what you have created. I’ll tease people: it’s called Dlyted. We won’t tell them about it yet. Introduce yourself, Barry Shore. You’re in California. You take it from there. Tell them about yourself, and then let’s hear your story.
 Barry Shore:  Thank you, Hugh Ballou, for being here, being who you are, and being a conduit for good and channeling. Here is my greeting to everybody out there listening. Hello, beautiful, bountiful beings, and good-looking people. How can I make the statement that they are good-looking, Hugh? I know the people who are listening and watching are always looking for the good.
 Hugh: Outstanding.
 Barry: The story about Barry Shore is a young, dynamic, debonair, 69-year-old chronological being. The 17thof September, in the year 2004, a mere 14 years ago, I was standing up in the morning just like everybody I hope, watching this Facebook live, and listening to our story. That was in the morning. In the evening, I was in the hospital, paralyzed from my neck down. I became a quadriplegic overnight, in a matter of hours, from a rare disease, not an auto accident, a rare disease called Guillain-Barre Syndrome, GBS, for the cognoscenti. I went from being a healthy, happy, wholly, hearty, dynamic 55-year-old who had been extremely successful in business, married 27 years to a wonderful wife, had a 17-year-old son (at the time), traveling around the world, came back to California for holidays, and now I am paralyzed from my neck down.
 Here is a great part of the story. The other day, I saw my doctor who has been treating me for a number of years. He likes to recall every time we see each other, “Shore, I remember the first day you called me from the hospital. You said, ‘My name is Barry Shore. I am coming in to see you. All I can move is my mouth.’” Imagine that. In the morning, you’re up and doing, and in the evening, all you can move is your mouth.
 I will give you the back of the baseball card statistics for the moment, Hugh. That’s how we live in this world, giving people ideas of some things. I am in the hospital for over four and a half months in various kinds of rehabilitation centers. I was in a hospital bed in my home for over two years. Couldn’t turn over by myself. I was in a wheelchair for four years. I had braces on both legs from my hips down to my ankles. Today, thank God, I am able to be vertical and ambulatory with the help of a six-and-a-half foot walking wand that was made for me by a zen master. But I still have help 12 hours a day, seven days a week, and I can’t walk up a stair by myself or a curb. But hear my voice. Feel the passion of life that flows through me because the good Lord has been so kind and giving to me that he activated in me something that enabled me to become a real giver.
 Here is an example, Hugh. Before all this happened, I had built two Internet companies, one of which I sold for many millions of dollars, was doing very well. Of course, I am a giver. I am generous. I wrote checks. But it was all part of what you do. You help people. You write a check. That’s it. You think you’re a giver. That’s not what a giver is. A giver puts the other beings first. What can I do to be of benefit? It wasn’t part of my very soul. That was the genius and the benefit, what others call adversity. This test and a testament to the good Lord in being able to show me a path that I was able to go from complete, total paralysis to literally being able to now get out of bed, albeit with difficulty, and stand up, albeit with help, and to be positive about that, and to be thankful, and to turn that energy into a channel of goodness. That is the beginning of the story.
 What I’d like to do as we speak is tell a few incidents along the way that helped me gain this insight.
 Hugh: Sure. As you go on, some people are listening to this that have problems that pale in comparison, like me. I am listening to it trying to understand and learn about myself. What are the motivational factors? What inspired you to not give up to this disease that had a lock on your very body? This is fascinating. Please continue.
 Barry: Thank you, Hugh. I truly hope that this is beneficial to people listening, and that we all recognize these great words: Never give up. I am living it. I am only here as a channel to be of benefit so that others can say, “If he can do it, I can do it.”
 Let me give you two small incidents that I think may be of help. The first one occurred after I had been moved out of the ICU, where I had been for about 11 days. They put me in a telemetry unit. A telemetry unit is where nurses can watch you from monitors and such. I had this great run. I was a single occupant in a great hospital. Not moving anything of my body, I am just there. They had to set up something special on my bed just to bump my head because I couldn’t hit a call button. Here I am in bed in the telemetry unit. A nurse came in at midnight or so. I am not able to sleep because you are not moving a lot. They have to inject drugs in you to get you to sleep. The nurse said, “Mr. Shore, would you like to watch a movie? Maybe that will help put you to sleep.” I assented and chose a biography of Abraham Lincoln. Of course, we all know how that turns out. Not so good. Toward the end, I had tears in my eyes.
 Imagine you are lying in bed with tears in your eyes. Everybody knows that tears are salty. They hurt. What do you do? You wipe them away, right? Well, I can’t move my hands. I can’t move my arms. I am new to this stuff. Nothing in my body is moving. I couldn’t move my head left or right enough to move the tears out, and the button that had been put up behind my head had been moved somehow. I couldn’t reach the nurse. Of course, I can’t just sit there because it hurts. I resolved, I am going to call out. I did. “Help! Help! Please!” My voice had been compromised also. I could barely speak. I resolved to count to ten and then call out again if the nurse doesn’t show up. I got to four, and the pain was too much. So I called out, and I mustered all of my strength, “Help! Nurse, please!” By the time I counted to four, the nurse was at the door. “Mr. Shore, did you call?” “Yes, my eyes!” She came over and saw there were tears in my eyes. She cleaned them and fixed the button behind my head. Looks at me and says, “Is that all?” “Yes, thank you.” I recognized then no one really knows the pain of another. She didn’t know how much it hurt. I couldn’t express myself. Thankfully, she came in and cleaned it up.
 About a week later, I am being wheeled on a gurney from a test they had run on me. People picked me up, took me on the gurney, ran the test, and brought me back. There was a male nurse taking care of me. I had interacted with him three or four times over the past few days. Pleasant fellow. He looked down at me and asked, “Mr. Shore, can I ask you a personal question?” I said yes. He says, “I am a male nurse. I see people in your condition frequently. I have never met anybody who is not angry and bitter. You’re paralyzed. How come you’re not angry and bitter?” I realized he was asking me the great existential question: Why me? Why dear Lord did you do this to me? But I wasn’t thinking like that. I was asking the question: Why me in the sense of who am I? I am just a guy. What do you want from me, dear Lord? What can I do?
 At that moment, Hugh, I reached deep inside of me, and I asked the good Lord, “Please help heal me. Please show me my purpose.” A wave of serenity and calm came over me that I had not known in 55 years. I was now determined with the good Lord’s help to walk again. That was a major turning point in my life.
 Hugh: So nothing gets Barry Shore down. That was how many years ago?
 Barry: That was in 2004, almost 14 years ago now.
 Hugh: You had a very successful career before that.
 Barry: Correct.
 Hugh: You sold that enterprise, you said?
 Barry: Yes.
 Hugh: And then this condition- how do you say it?
 Barry: Guillame-Barre syndrome. It is actually two French doctors, Guillame, which is the French for William, and the other doctor’s name was Barre, like Barry.
 Hugh: I have known people in the past who have had that, who have come through it. It’s quite a traumatic experience. Today, you are in a different place than you were with your business. But you have focused on doing good for others. Is that right?
 Barry: That’s correct.
 Hugh: I looked at a website called- Spell it for us.
 Barry: It is spelled D as in David, L as in Love, Y as in Yesterday, T as in Terrific, E as Enthusiastic, D as in Dynamic, DLYTED.com. I am Dlyted to be here.
 Hugh: I can see that. What is Dlyted about, and what was the passion and inspiration behind you setting up- Dlyted is more than one thing. It’s more than one program, isn’t it?
 Barry: Yes. Dlyted is an engine of philanthropy. Let me digress for just a moment because it gives the background as you want to hear. It’s very important. I was deeply affected by something that I learned from a great man called the Four P’s. Those four P’s are Purpose, Prayer, Perseverance, and Patience. Those four P’s have been active in my life. I was able through them to begin this process of healing, both in a spiritual and physical sense, and bring out through purpose and prayer, the great perseverance, which I will demonstrate in just a moment, and patience, this platform, which has a mission and a goal.
 Let me tell you how it came about. It has to do with my wonderful wife. I would not be sitting here as strong and capable and handsome as I am, speaking with you, if it was not for my amazing, dedicated, fabulous wife, Naomi. It’s hard for me to speak without choking up, but I am going to try and do it.
 I will just tell you a brief story as it deserves longer, but time is always of the essence. Released from the hospital about four and a half months later—they wouldn’t keep me there longer because insurance wouldn’t pay, and we had already racked up bills over half a million dollars—I was in the special hospital bed. When you are in the hospital, by the way, one of the more important things to be afraid and aware of is bed sores. They are debilitating. We had to get a special bed, which the insurance company didn’t want to do, but they were forced to because of circumstances. It is a special air mattress that allows the body to conform without the issue of bed sores. We brought this bed to our home.
 While in the hospital, every night, you have to turn people over who are paralyzed because if you keep people in the same position, the body deteriorates. They have a team who goes around the hospital every two and a half to three hours, two people with back braces, usually strong people. Together, they turn the person onto the side, then the other, to give some sort of normality to your process in the hospital. This happened throughout the months I was in the hospital.
 Now we come home. We had sufficient funds, so we were able to have help in the home 24 hours a day, seven days a week, except for one thing. My wonderful wife did not want people staying overnight in her home that she doesn’t know. She is very protective. We had help until 10 pm, and then help would come again at 7 am. But during the evening, she was going to take care of me, and she was in charge. Her home, her rules. Great.
 One small situation, though. My wife is all of 97 pounds, 5’1”, very beautiful. Remember, I just told you in the hospital, you have to be turned over every 2.5/3 hours. Here I am, almost 6’. Because of my situation, I had been reduced from 195 pounds to 137. But still, 137 pounds, and she is all of 5’1” and 97 pounds. She said that she is going to turn me over. She did. Every two and a half hours, throughout the evening, two or three times a night, night in and night out, week in and week out, month in and month out, for two years, this amazing woman turned me. That is love.
 I say this as a preface to the following incident. I mentioned also I was in a wheelchair for four years. Thank God we could afford it. I had a motorized wheelchair and a fancy Olympic-style wheelchair. Together, they cost almost $10,000. The lightweight wheelchair we needed because in addition to having private therapy, I also went to group therapy in the hospital. It’s important to be with other people who have situations and challenges when in a situation like this, just to be in comradery. At these situations in the hospital, I noticed not everybody could afford the kind of wheelchairs I had.
 One day, I came home and was still back in bed. I said to my wife, “Honey, would you please find a place that helps people get wheelchairs? Let’s send them a check for $1,000 and help out.” She said okay. She left the room. I am feeling great. I am just a quad lying in bed, but I am feeling good. I just gave $1,000 to help people get wheelchairs.
 About five minutes later, I called out, “This is dumb! This is dumb!” I didn’t raise my hands. I called it out. My wife comes running into the room and asks, “What’s the matter?” I said, “This is dumb. Just because I was moved and we can afford to write a check, why isn’t it that there are tens of thousands of people not giving money every single day to help out other people? Why not?” My wife said, “Hey, Mr. Shore, you’re smart. You build stuff on the Internet. Make it happen.” And she walked out of the room.
 I am laying there. I said, “Okay. Dear Lord, why not? Please help me.” I had a few parameters. One was it has to be easy. If it’s not easy, Hugh, people don’t do it. Right, Russell? That’s number one. Number two is it has to be vast and almost fun. Imagine that. We put the fun back in fundraising. Number three, you’re going to love this one, it has to be free. What does that mean? I mentioned to you I already built two Internet companies, one of which I sold for many millions of dollars. Both of those companies were based on the free model. One was faxing for free, and the other was speaking for free. They were built on the ability to do something for free. How do you give money for free? Russell is scratching his bald head not understanding that. I think I believe you, Barry Shore. You’re a friend of Hugh’s, but what do you mean give money for free? Those were the parameters. I tried to go to sleep.
 The next day, I was doing a lot of exercise. We had people coming to the house. I am still a quad. I have people moving my body around trying to get it to do things. Move your arm up, move your leg, do stuff like that. To this very day, I can’t wiggle my toes. I can’t move my feet up and down. I am able to get around. After a very exhausting therapy session, they put me back into bed. I am laying there, closing my eyes. My eyes pop open, and I see a vision. I see three circles intersecting like the circles from the Olympics or a Venn diagram. Not only that, but each circle was labeled, to show you how the good Lord works. It was a simple, elegant answer to the questions. If it is not simple and elegant, it doesn’t work. If it’s too hard, it doesn’t happen. The best problems are simple, not simplistic, but simple to solve.
 The first circle was labeled “Mobile” or cell. About ten years ago, it was the first year of these things called Smartphones. Think back ten years. Just coming out. Well, hey, I am in the Internet, I am in the world. I realized this was not a trend or a fad. This is a complete disruption in human communications. Look what we are doing now, ten years later. This stuff did not exist. This is a change in the world.
 The next circle was labeled “Gift cards.” You can’t walk into a store and not be assaulted by racks of these things. Those are plastic. What does it have to do with this? There was a line moving from the second circle to the first circle and an arrow labeled “Digital.” I got it! You hit a button on the iPhone and you say, “Give me $50 of Starbucks,” and it gets sent in seconds. Wow.
 The third circle was the most important though. This is what is critical to all of us. The third circle was labeled “Cause.” Here is what gets really interesting. We know as adults that sometimes what isn’t said is almost as important as what is said. Didn't say “charity.” This is a pet peeve of mine. Bear with me. It wasn’t labeled “charity.” To me, a charity is the following. Someone has a hand out, and you put a dollar in that hand. The next thing, he goes into your pocket to get more. That is a charity. A cause is something I want to help. It’s attractive. What can I do?
 I thought about these amazing beings called millennials and younger, the generation after them. Some of the most caring, giving people ever. At least they say so. We want clean water. We don’t want pets to die. We want to make sure everyone has shelter. We want to do all of these things. We, as a little bit older, and some of us have gray hair, and some of us even have hair, we recognize it all costs money. Watch this. Put these three circles together. You mean I can hit a button on my phone and order a brand I am going to shop at and love anyway, whether it’s Amazon, the Gap, TGIF, the movies, ordering pizza, hundreds of places. I hit a button, pay what I’m going to pay, and get the exact amount sent to me within seconds. Because I did that, and Barry Shore arranged it with the brand, some portion of that goes to the cause of my choice. You hear this? I am going to drink coffee, I am going to go out to eat, I am going to go to the movies, I am going to go shopping. Just because I do that, some portion goes here.
 It has to be fast. It has to be easy. It should be fun. It doesn’t cost the giver a penny. Out of this came the two most important sentences I am going to say. A mission and a goal. Hugh, you mentioned to me you work with a lot of groups that are mission-oriented. It’s a mission to go out and spread the word of the Lord. It’s a mission to help people with food. It’s a mission to educate. We are a mission. We need a mission statement. Our mission is four words: Making everyday giving effortless. You like that? Making everyday giving effortless. That is the mission. What is the goal? The big, hairy, audacious goal: the facilitating of giving one billion dollars without costing any giver a penny.
 Hugh: That’s quite amazing, Barry. That is the overarching framework for Dlyted. Is it operational?
 Barry: Thank you for asking. Dlyted attracted great people in the Internet world and investors. We are here to transform philanthropy. Over the past three and a half years, we have built the platform that enables everything to happen that I told you about. I am happy to tell you that we function every day, and we help organizations all the time. We do all the heavy lifting. We build a landing page for a cause, whether it’s a church, a youth group, American Cancer Society. Now they will have their own page where when people come to that page and register, whenever they do their shopping through Dlyted, the money automatically goes to that cause. It is not going to 30 different causes. It goes to that cause. We are concerned about how people can make sure they have an attachment to and stay with their cause, their church, their group, their organization. It becomes fun. Yes, we are operational. We raise money. We have some great stories. People love it. Once they hear about it, think about this. Here is the biggest problem we face. Too good to be true. Am I right?
 Hugh: Barry, speaking of that issue, let’s address that right away. There is money that goes to the charity from the purchase. Where does the money come from?
 Barry: I will give you the simple economics. An Example is Gap. Everybody knows Gap. Millions of people shop there. We negotiated with Gap what we call on the highfalutin language arbitrage, which is the difference between the buy and sell price. When you walk into the store and you see those racks of gift cards, the store makes some money out of selling those. When somebody buys one of those, the store makes a percentage. That percentage, instead of going to the store, is going to be going to the cause. Let’s say a $100 gift card for Gap we are able to get at $90. $5 goes to the cause. It costs us 3.5% to process with a credit card. We get the $1.50 to keep the business going. Each brand has its own particular amount they are able to share with the cause. Instead of going to the store that sells it, it now goes to you.
 Here is where it gets really exciting. I call this the four C’s. The four C’s are the following: Conscious Consumers. Whether you are talking about a 17-year-old who is fired up to change the world or an 87-year-old who understands it costs money to do things, these are conscious consumers. People who want to use their money and time well. I care about what I eat, and I care about who I shop with and buy from. Those are conscious consumers.
  The next C is Conscious Capitalists. I am proud to say that more and more people who run businesses are becoming aware that capitalism is not a dirty word. It is the word that will enable all of us to raise up this great world if we recognize that living together and not squeezing profit is the best way to live. You can turn your profit and become prophetic, from an f to a ph. If your business wants to stay around and really grow, bring in those conscious consumers who want to work with conscious capitalists and are willing to share the bounty.
 The third C is Conscious Causes. There are some causes out there who call themselves charities who are there just to raise money. That’s what they want to do. They don’t want to go out of business. American Cancer Society would like to be out of business in the next few years. Why? Because they cured cancer. We are not looking to raise $100 million so we can have people who have fat salaries. We want to maintain and sustain and grow.
 The fourth C is what I call the Collaborative economy. Are all these three working together understanding? Hugh, you were kind enough to share with me this idea of a number of Methodist churches in Virginia. Collaboration amongst one or two or a number of these can oftentimes yield a greater amount than just being on their own. When you literally collaborate hundreds or thousands of people who are now consciously shopping, again using Dlyted doesn’t cost you money to do it, it may take you a few extra seconds to say you want $300 of Southwest through Dlyted, but I had to do that extra step. Now because of that, $15 just went to help out a mission for kids to go someplace. Think of collaborating 1,000 people with that mindset. These four C’s now become powerful. A lever.
 Let’s go back to Barry Shore. I want to tell you a story about my recovery that may illustrate some of this. May I do that?
 Hugh: Yes, sir. Then I want to hear from Mr. Russell. Go for it. You keep talking, and then we will hear from Russell.
 Barry: Let me tell everybody a story. I am enjoying telling these stories. Hugh, I gotta thank you again. I am loving this. Russell, I hope you are loving this also. I hope all the people listening are loving this because it’s my wife that is the backbone here. It is the good Lord who gave me the energy and the ability for me to be able to express my thanks for allowing me to be of benefit. As I mentioned to you before, everybody thinks they know what www stands for. You think you know. WWW stands for What a Wonderful World. That’s your acronym. We do that ASAP, which stands for Always Say a Prayer. Watch this one, kids.
 Remember, I am a quadriplegic for years. A quad is somebody who is paralyzed from the neck down. As my doctor said so eloquently, “Shore, all you can do is move your mouth.” But you are still moving. Watch this.
 In the course of healing, the good Lord sent me an amazing person who happened to be a neighbor on my street. He saw me in the wheelchair one day and said, “What happened to you?” I told him what was going on. He said, “I am going to have you up and walking in a year.” Hmm, okay, fine. Why? Because he is one of the leading people in the world of aquatic therapy. As you can hear, aquatic therapy means you put somebody in the pool, and you move them around to get your muscles moving, and you get better response in the water. For me, it’s very important because when they were trying to get me up on my feet, oftentimes I would fall down. When you fall down because of gravity on pavement or on the earth, it hurts. I have even sprained and broken bones because of it in therapy. I was very open to this aquatic therapy.
 Gets me in the pool and works with me over the course of months. When they had me in the pool the first time, I had floaties on my legs and my tummy and my arms so I wouldn’t sink and drown.
 Fast forward now. Over the course of a number of months, got me to the point where with floaties on my legs and floaties on my belly, I was able to be on my back and move my arms over my head in the water that I was simulating a backstroke. I am going to make the story a bit shorter because I can go on. Over the course of a year, I was able to swim at the end of the year one mile on my back without stopping. It took me over two hours to do that, but hey, I am in southern California. I am swimming outdoors. I have a great tan, don’t I? I am in the warm pool, so why not? And I am moving my arms. For a quad, that is big time stuff, kids.
 Now I am going to the make the story more amazing. Suffice it to say, within the next year, after I had already swum more than 75 miles, I was able to get on my tummy and still with floaties on my legs, otherwise I would sink, and I had paddles on my hands because my fingers don’t close or the water goes right through, and I use a snorkel because I can’t move my head enough to breathe in. So we have a snorkel, paddles, floaties, and I am outdoors in a warm pool in southern California. I am on my tummy, and over the course of time, I was able to swim a mile on my belly. I put it together, and I was swimming two miles a day six days a week. I have been doing that for almost nine years.
 Hugh: That’s amazing. I am going to let Russell comment. We are heading to the last part of our interview. Anybody out there who thinks they have an excuse probably thinks by now they don’t really have an excuse. You had insurmountable odds. I want to learn more about Dlyted and how people can benefit from the charity they represent. Russell has been patient. Russell, howdy.
 Russell Dennis: Greetings, good to see you again, young Mr. Shore. It has been a long time. What a remarkable story. I love the platform. It just doesn’t- Let me give you an idea of some of the people who are out here. He mentioned a few. Amazon, AMC, AirBnb, Groupon, Southwest Airlines, Xbox, Regal Cinemas, GameStop, Starbucks, Under Armour, Target. These are just a few. What do they give back? Amazon gives 1%. AMC, 5%. Home Depot, 2.5%. You can see exactly what these people are giving to the charity. This is 1, 2, 3. This is what Barry is talking about. Make it easy. Where do you shop? You can buy your stuff online. Sign up, create an account, one. Pick a card, any card. This is not a trick. Then step three, type in who you want to support. It’s that quick and easy. You type them in, that card is locked in. When you run that card, you are supporting that charity. Who can you support? Anybody who has a listing. There is a SynerVision landing page in here.
 Hugh: Oh, there is? I didn’t know that. How did you find that?
 Russell: You must go in and play as you set up your account. It is in here. It is so easy. This is very intuitive. It is very easy to use. You can do this in a matter of minutes. Within three minutes, you are making a donation to your charity. You go to the home page, you click on Start Giving. There is a place to create an account. You can either sign in or create a new account. There I am. I am going to drop my name in right now. There is my name, email, and password. I got fat fingers going here today, guys. Create an Account.
 Hugh: What do you mean, today?
 Russell: I have fat fingers every day. That’s why I have a fat finger tool that is not on my desk. I now have a Dlyted account. Verify my email. It will send me an email. I can go in here now. Amazon.com is my poison. Trust me, I collect books a hell of a lot faster than I read them. It’s that easy. I think it would take a total of three minutes to create an account, pick a card, and pick somebody to support. Once you have set it up, your card is there. Whether you are shopping from your phone—I have friends who have flip phones, I am working on them, Barry. Once I have converted them, I can get them signed up. Hugh doesn’t have a flip phone. I want to say out loud now that Hugh is not one of my flip phone carriers.
 Hugh: Despite my age and mental condition.
 Russell: Oh God, we didn’t make it. We almost made it without that comment.
 Hugh: I’m sorry, it was a cheap shot. Russell, you work with nonprofits everywhere. Many of them struggle to put some funding strings in place. Part of what we teach at SynerVision is there are eight different ways to create revenue streams. This one we group under Earned Income or Business Income. It’s affiliate fees. We recommend or are tied to help people find products they would buy anyway, and a portion of that goes to the charity. Barry’s story is quite remarkable. He did not give up, but he took adversity and reframed it into a benefit for a whole lot of people. That is quite a compelling story. Coming from your position of helping charities think about their funding options, what do you see and hear is a benefit for all those nonprofits, churches, synagogues, that are struggling?
 Russell: Easy is good because a lot of these folks are wearing 6-7 hats. They don’t have the revenues or the support structure. This is collaborative. You get people on your team. It’s low hanging fruit. This is a high-powered platform that has been around for a while. It’s getting better all the time. It’s mobile-friendly. It renders beautifully on my iPad. You have to render beautifully on any mobile device because more giving online is happening from these mobile devices. Any time you can put a platform together that combines online giving, so a charity could very easily share this site, and leverage this, this is something they can earn revenue through. It’s very simple. It’s very easy. Everything is set up. It’s just about driving traffic, which is telling as many of their supporters about it as they possibly can. This is powerful revenue. It’s passive, yet people are coming in. Every way that you can find to support yourself, you should be driving people to that platform. This is stuff they buy all the time.
 They are going to buy it whether they are supporting you or not, so they need to know that platforms are in place like this to leverage this. People are just shopping. Once you set it up, you pick your charity, you can pick several. Once you pick, you’re done. Every time they buy, they don’t have to think about this. They get full dollar value for what they purchase, yet the charity gets a certain percentage depending on the merchant. It’s just getting people to take an extra step. This is something they are doing all the time. It’s not onerous to the person.
 Hugh: Now that you have signed up, you are going to select SynerVision Leadership Foundation as your cause, right?
 Barry: Let me jump in here for a moment. Russell made some remarkably beautiful points. One of the famous studies done on what people fear most, #3 was fear of dying. #1 was speaking in public. Remember that, Russell?
 Russell: Public speaking.
 Barry: #2 is asking other people for money. You said something so genius. What Russell was saying is that the real beauty and benefit of Dlyted, in addition to the fact that you are giving and doing it anyway is that you are sharing. You know why? I sit on a board. I need to raise $1,000. I call up my friends, “Russell, we do business together. You’re a friend. You love me. Can I put you down for $250?” Even if he says yes, which he probably wouldn’t, as sure as we are sitting here, in six months, I am going to get a call from Russell, “Hey Barry, I am raising money. I need your help. Can I put you down for $250?” I am a jerk? I am going to say no? He just gave me $250. So I might as well have just written the check myself. With Dlyted, you can now share this with everybody in your social world because you are never asking anybody for a penny. I don’t fear it anymore because I am not asking you for money.
 Here is where it gets really amazing. You have these Methodist churches in Virginia. You have Russell in Denver. You have Lola who lives up in Alaska. Anybody anywhere in the United States can now support an organization using Dlyted. Whether you live in Alaska, Hawaii, Florida, anywhere, you can now be supporting this little place in Indiana or in Denver. It spreads anybody anywhere anytime, and you never ask anybody for money, so you share, share, share. Everybody has 300 people they talk to. You get a church of 1,000 people, so you could now be talking to tens of thousands of people. You can help us, and it won’t cost you a penny.
 Russell: They are writing a check without writing a check because they buy this stuff anyway. If you spend $500 on Amazon, you are going to give us money. Just go here. You’ll get every penny that you invest in that card. $50 on Amazon will be $50 you spend, but you will be sending $2.50.
 Barry: Watch this one. You just gave me an idea. We have Mother’s Day coming up soon and Father’s Day and birthdays. When you do your gift-giving, because people will send gift cards online, through Dlyted, not only are you giving the gift, but you just made a contribution. Think of Mom. Hey, I just gave Mom $100 of Macys, but I just gave $5 to the church doing it. Mom would love that because I gave her something, and Mom would also be proud of me because I just gave money.
 We touch the two deepest emotions in a human being: I am smart, and I am good. How much smarter can you be than to do good that doesn’t cost you anything? Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, birthdays, anniversaries, holiday time. It’s all part of the flow. Just taking that extra step. Once you get into the habit of doing good, you become a hog, in the Habit of Good.
 Hugh: That’s amazing.
 Russell: You can build a campaign calendar using just about anything. People can do stuff all year round.
 Hugh: Russell, we are moving to a place where we are not going to leave the money on the table. If we don’t access and redirect this money to the charity, it doesn’t go anywhere. It goes to the company. There is that money that is part of their marketing budget. They redirect part of their marketing budget to people who directed the sales.
 Barry, we are on the wrap-up of this inspirational interview. I want to make sure that people understand that I invited you here to tell your story of how leaders do not accept challenges as failure. Leaders succeed because they get up one more time than they fell down. Leaders succeed because they are purpose-driven and they do not see failure as an option. Success is the option. Your creation is something you have done because you care about leaving a legacy, building goodness in the world, and helping other people generate revenue. We are going to continue to talk about ways that SynerVision can help you spread the message. You are a very good and compelling storyteller.
 Thinking about leaders out there, there are people who are on the verge of giving up, who feel like they are so over-loaded they are never going to succeed. There are people out there who don’t see the daylight as they are really there. I am going to give you the last two minutes to give people a tip, thought, or challenge as they go forward.
 Barry, we have spent an hour telling a story. It seems like two minutes to me. We are almost done here. Last two minutes are yours. What do you want to share with people as a parting thought, comment, or challenge?
 Barry: Thank you again, Hugh and Russell for the opportunity to address these amazing people who are making a difference. Go mad, everybody. Go make a difference. I have to leave you with two things. Here they are.
 The first is the four P’s: Purpose, Prayer, Perseverance, and Patience.
 As I mentioned to you, I swim two miles a day, six days a week. I have accumulated enough miles to swim from Los Angeles, California to Hawaii, from Hawaii to Taiwan, and from Taiwan to Shanghai, China. More than 6,578 miles, and I am not stopping. Never give in. Never give in. Never give in. Thank you.
 Hugh: Barry Shore, you are an inspiration. Russell, thanks as always for being here.
 Russell: Thank you. Good to see you again, Barry. I will be doing my shopping on Dlyted.
  
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      <pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7e1967e6-b329-11eb-9f0f-abe7fcd1e32d/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The Story of Dylite from Barry Shore</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Barry Shore: Coming from Personal Trauma to Success and Helping Other Succeed
 Barry Shoreis an ambassador of Joy.
 Because of his successes in business and recovery from full body paralysis he has built an “Eco System of Good” internet platform that enables people to Give to their Favorite cause at No Cost.
 Barry was an instructor in the Diamond Program at the GIA, an author of a world wide resource book on diamonds and an international wholesale diamantaire with sales exceeding 100 Million dollars.
 After a brief retirement at age 33 he returned to business and built an international telephony company. From this grew an innovative process in 1999 that enabled faxes (sic) to be sent and received via email (think dial up) to 17 countries for FREE (!). Barry was awarded Two Patents in this space and built a stellar executive team. He then sold the Company 18 months later for more than $10 million dollars and the acquiring Company is today a $2 Billion market cap.
 Then he built a predecessor to Skype (enabling people to call to 17 Counties for FREE) which was funded and then bought within 9 months by a NASDQ company.
 Then on 17 September 2004 Barry became a quadriplegic  (paralyzed from his neck down!) overnight from a rare neurological disease (GBS).
 His journey since to regain mobility caused him to GO MAD: Go Make a Difference.
 He envisioned a Platform that enables People to GIVE Money to their Favorite CAUSE at NoCost to the Giver and attracted smart caring talented successful players to build the System.
 He has been granted a Patent in the process and has found the Formula to Create the “ECO System of GOOD”: where Supporters, Brands, Causes All Participate for Mutual Benefit.
 Barry’s Mission is to Make Everyday Giving Effortless and his Big Audacious  Goal is to facilitate the Giving of One Billion Dollars without costing any Giver a penny.
 He is the Founder of the KEEP SMILING Movement (thedailysmile.com) which has distributed more than 1.2 MILLION KEEP SMILING Cards throughout the world in 27 languages.
 He is the Founder of the MOL (minute of Love) Podcast produced 6X/week.
 He has become an avid swimmer (2 miles/day/6x/week) and has accumulated enough miles over 9 years to swim from Venice CA (his home) to Shanghai, China.
 Barry is focused on transforming the giving space.
 More Information at https://www.dlyted.com
 Here's the Transcript for the Interview
  
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou again on The Nonprofit Exchange. As usual, we have quite an amazing guest today. This guest and I have met passively over the last ten years here and there, just touching base. Recently, a mutual friend connected us, and there was some real synergy. I got to hear Barry’s story again. We all have stories. Very few of us are as good as telling the story as Barry. Barry, today, instead of my normal routine of giving us a bio and telling why you do what you’re doing, I think we are going to build this conversation around your story and what you have created. I’ll tease people: it’s called Dlyted. We won’t tell them about it yet. Introduce yourself, Barry Shore. You’re in California. You take it from there. Tell them about yourself, and then let’s hear your story.
 Barry Shore:  Thank you, Hugh Ballou, for being here, being who you are, and being a conduit for good and channeling. Here is my greeting to everybody out there listening. Hello, beautiful, bountiful beings, and good-looking people. How can I make the statement that they are good-looking, Hugh? I know the people who are listening and watching are always looking for the good.
 Hugh: Outstanding.
 Barry: The story about Barry Shore is a young, dynamic, debonair, 69-year-old chronological being. The 17thof September, in the year 2004, a mere 14 years ago, I was standing up in the morning just like everybody I hope, watching this Facebook live, and listening to our story. That was in the morning. In the evening, I was in the hospital, paralyzed from my neck down. I became a quadriplegic overnight, in a matter of hours, from a rare disease, not an auto accident, a rare disease called Guillain-Barre Syndrome, GBS, for the cognoscenti. I went from being a healthy, happy, wholly, hearty, dynamic 55-year-old who had been extremely successful in business, married 27 years to a wonderful wife, had a 17-year-old son (at the time), traveling around the world, came back to California for holidays, and now I am paralyzed from my neck down.
 Here is a great part of the story. The other day, I saw my doctor who has been treating me for a number of years. He likes to recall every time we see each other, “Shore, I remember the first day you called me from the hospital. You said, ‘My name is Barry Shore. I am coming in to see you. All I can move is my mouth.’” Imagine that. In the morning, you’re up and doing, and in the evening, all you can move is your mouth.
 I will give you the back of the baseball card statistics for the moment, Hugh. That’s how we live in this world, giving people ideas of some things. I am in the hospital for over four and a half months in various kinds of rehabilitation centers. I was in a hospital bed in my home for over two years. Couldn’t turn over by myself. I was in a wheelchair for four years. I had braces on both legs from my hips down to my ankles. Today, thank God, I am able to be vertical and ambulatory with the help of a six-and-a-half foot walking wand that was made for me by a zen master. But I still have help 12 hours a day, seven days a week, and I can’t walk up a stair by myself or a curb. But hear my voice. Feel the passion of life that flows through me because the good Lord has been so kind and giving to me that he activated in me something that enabled me to become a real giver.
 Here is an example, Hugh. Before all this happened, I had built two Internet companies, one of which I sold for many millions of dollars, was doing very well. Of course, I am a giver. I am generous. I wrote checks. But it was all part of what you do. You help people. You write a check. That’s it. You think you’re a giver. That’s not what a giver is. A giver puts the other beings first. What can I do to be of benefit? It wasn’t part of my very soul. That was the genius and the benefit, what others call adversity. This test and a testament to the good Lord in being able to show me a path that I was able to go from complete, total paralysis to literally being able to now get out of bed, albeit with difficulty, and stand up, albeit with help, and to be positive about that, and to be thankful, and to turn that energy into a channel of goodness. That is the beginning of the story.
 What I’d like to do as we speak is tell a few incidents along the way that helped me gain this insight.
 Hugh: Sure. As you go on, some people are listening to this that have problems that pale in comparison, like me. I am listening to it trying to understand and learn about myself. What are the motivational factors? What inspired you to not give up to this disease that had a lock on your very body? This is fascinating. Please continue.
 Barry: Thank you, Hugh. I truly hope that this is beneficial to people listening, and that we all recognize these great words: Never give up. I am living it. I am only here as a channel to be of benefit so that others can say, “If he can do it, I can do it.”
 Let me give you two small incidents that I think may be of help. The first one occurred after I had been moved out of the ICU, where I had been for about 11 days. They put me in a telemetry unit. A telemetry unit is where nurses can watch you from monitors and such. I had this great run. I was a single occupant in a great hospital. Not moving anything of my body, I am just there. They had to set up something special on my bed just to bump my head because I couldn’t hit a call button. Here I am in bed in the telemetry unit. A nurse came in at midnight or so. I am not able to sleep because you are not moving a lot. They have to inject drugs in you to get you to sleep. The nurse said, “Mr. Shore, would you like to watch a movie? Maybe that will help put you to sleep.” I assented and chose a biography of Abraham Lincoln. Of course, we all know how that turns out. Not so good. Toward the end, I had tears in my eyes.
 Imagine you are lying in bed with tears in your eyes. Everybody knows that tears are salty. They hurt. What do you do? You wipe them away, right? Well, I can’t move my hands. I can’t move my arms. I am new to this stuff. Nothing in my body is moving. I couldn’t move my head left or right enough to move the tears out, and the button that had been put up behind my head had been moved somehow. I couldn’t reach the nurse. Of course, I can’t just sit there because it hurts. I resolved, I am going to call out. I did. “Help! Help! Please!” My voice had been compromised also. I could barely speak. I resolved to count to ten and then call out again if the nurse doesn’t show up. I got to four, and the pain was too much. So I called out, and I mustered all of my strength, “Help! Nurse, please!” By the time I counted to four, the nurse was at the door. “Mr. Shore, did you call?” “Yes, my eyes!” She came over and saw there were tears in my eyes. She cleaned them and fixed the button behind my head. Looks at me and says, “Is that all?” “Yes, thank you.” I recognized then no one really knows the pain of another. She didn’t know how much it hurt. I couldn’t express myself. Thankfully, she came in and cleaned it up.
 About a week later, I am being wheeled on a gurney from a test they had run on me. People picked me up, took me on the gurney, ran the test, and brought me back. There was a male nurse taking care of me. I had interacted with him three or four times over the past few days. Pleasant fellow. He looked down at me and asked, “Mr. Shore, can I ask you a personal question?” I said yes. He says, “I am a male nurse. I see people in your condition frequently. I have never met anybody who is not angry and bitter. You’re paralyzed. How come you’re not angry and bitter?” I realized he was asking me the great existential question: Why me? Why dear Lord did you do this to me? But I wasn’t thinking like that. I was asking the question: Why me in the sense of who am I? I am just a guy. What do you want from me, dear Lord? What can I do?
 At that moment, Hugh, I reached deep inside of me, and I asked the good Lord, “Please help heal me. Please show me my purpose.” A wave of serenity and calm came over me that I had not known in 55 years. I was now determined with the good Lord’s help to walk again. That was a major turning point in my life.
 Hugh: So nothing gets Barry Shore down. That was how many years ago?
 Barry: That was in 2004, almost 14 years ago now.
 Hugh: You had a very successful career before that.
 Barry: Correct.
 Hugh: You sold that enterprise, you said?
 Barry: Yes.
 Hugh: And then this condition- how do you say it?
 Barry: Guillame-Barre syndrome. It is actually two French doctors, Guillame, which is the French for William, and the other doctor’s name was Barre, like Barry.
 Hugh: I have known people in the past who have had that, who have come through it. It’s quite a traumatic experience. Today, you are in a different place than you were with your business. But you have focused on doing good for others. Is that right?
 Barry: That’s correct.
 Hugh: I looked at a website called- Spell it for us.
 Barry: It is spelled D as in David, L as in Love, Y as in Yesterday, T as in Terrific, E as Enthusiastic, D as in Dynamic, DLYTED.com. I am Dlyted to be here.
 Hugh: I can see that. What is Dlyted about, and what was the passion and inspiration behind you setting up- Dlyted is more than one thing. It’s more than one program, isn’t it?
 Barry: Yes. Dlyted is an engine of philanthropy. Let me digress for just a moment because it gives the background as you want to hear. It’s very important. I was deeply affected by something that I learned from a great man called the Four P’s. Those four P’s are Purpose, Prayer, Perseverance, and Patience. Those four P’s have been active in my life. I was able through them to begin this process of healing, both in a spiritual and physical sense, and bring out through purpose and prayer, the great perseverance, which I will demonstrate in just a moment, and patience, this platform, which has a mission and a goal.
 Let me tell you how it came about. It has to do with my wonderful wife. I would not be sitting here as strong and capable and handsome as I am, speaking with you, if it was not for my amazing, dedicated, fabulous wife, Naomi. It’s hard for me to speak without choking up, but I am going to try and do it.
 I will just tell you a brief story as it deserves longer, but time is always of the essence. Released from the hospital about four and a half months later—they wouldn’t keep me there longer because insurance wouldn’t pay, and we had already racked up bills over half a million dollars—I was in the special hospital bed. When you are in the hospital, by the way, one of the more important things to be afraid and aware of is bed sores. They are debilitating. We had to get a special bed, which the insurance company didn’t want to do, but they were forced to because of circumstances. It is a special air mattress that allows the body to conform without the issue of bed sores. We brought this bed to our home.
 While in the hospital, every night, you have to turn people over who are paralyzed because if you keep people in the same position, the body deteriorates. They have a team who goes around the hospital every two and a half to three hours, two people with back braces, usually strong people. Together, they turn the person onto the side, then the other, to give some sort of normality to your process in the hospital. This happened throughout the months I was in the hospital.
 Now we come home. We had sufficient funds, so we were able to have help in the home 24 hours a day, seven days a week, except for one thing. My wonderful wife did not want people staying overnight in her home that she doesn’t know. She is very protective. We had help until 10 pm, and then help would come again at 7 am. But during the evening, she was going to take care of me, and she was in charge. Her home, her rules. Great.
 One small situation, though. My wife is all of 97 pounds, 5’1”, very beautiful. Remember, I just told you in the hospital, you have to be turned over every 2.5/3 hours. Here I am, almost 6’. Because of my situation, I had been reduced from 195 pounds to 137. But still, 137 pounds, and she is all of 5’1” and 97 pounds. She said that she is going to turn me over. She did. Every two and a half hours, throughout the evening, two or three times a night, night in and night out, week in and week out, month in and month out, for two years, this amazing woman turned me. That is love.
 I say this as a preface to the following incident. I mentioned also I was in a wheelchair for four years. Thank God we could afford it. I had a motorized wheelchair and a fancy Olympic-style wheelchair. Together, they cost almost $10,000. The lightweight wheelchair we needed because in addition to having private therapy, I also went to group therapy in the hospital. It’s important to be with other people who have situations and challenges when in a situation like this, just to be in comradery. At these situations in the hospital, I noticed not everybody could afford the kind of wheelchairs I had.
 One day, I came home and was still back in bed. I said to my wife, “Honey, would you please find a place that helps people get wheelchairs? Let’s send them a check for $1,000 and help out.” She said okay. She left the room. I am feeling great. I am just a quad lying in bed, but I am feeling good. I just gave $1,000 to help people get wheelchairs.
 About five minutes later, I called out, “This is dumb! This is dumb!” I didn’t raise my hands. I called it out. My wife comes running into the room and asks, “What’s the matter?” I said, “This is dumb. Just because I was moved and we can afford to write a check, why isn’t it that there are tens of thousands of people not giving money every single day to help out other people? Why not?” My wife said, “Hey, Mr. Shore, you’re smart. You build stuff on the Internet. Make it happen.” And she walked out of the room.
 I am laying there. I said, “Okay. Dear Lord, why not? Please help me.” I had a few parameters. One was it has to be easy. If it’s not easy, Hugh, people don’t do it. Right, Russell? That’s number one. Number two is it has to be vast and almost fun. Imagine that. We put the fun back in fundraising. Number three, you’re going to love this one, it has to be free. What does that mean? I mentioned to you I already built two Internet companies, one of which I sold for many millions of dollars. Both of those companies were based on the free model. One was faxing for free, and the other was speaking for free. They were built on the ability to do something for free. How do you give money for free? Russell is scratching his bald head not understanding that. I think I believe you, Barry Shore. You’re a friend of Hugh’s, but what do you mean give money for free? Those were the parameters. I tried to go to sleep.
 The next day, I was doing a lot of exercise. We had people coming to the house. I am still a quad. I have people moving my body around trying to get it to do things. Move your arm up, move your leg, do stuff like that. To this very day, I can’t wiggle my toes. I can’t move my feet up and down. I am able to get around. After a very exhausting therapy session, they put me back into bed. I am laying there, closing my eyes. My eyes pop open, and I see a vision. I see three circles intersecting like the circles from the Olympics or a Venn diagram. Not only that, but each circle was labeled, to show you how the good Lord works. It was a simple, elegant answer to the questions. If it is not simple and elegant, it doesn’t work. If it’s too hard, it doesn’t happen. The best problems are simple, not simplistic, but simple to solve.
 The first circle was labeled “Mobile” or cell. About ten years ago, it was the first year of these things called Smartphones. Think back ten years. Just coming out. Well, hey, I am in the Internet, I am in the world. I realized this was not a trend or a fad. This is a complete disruption in human communications. Look what we are doing now, ten years later. This stuff did not exist. This is a change in the world.
 The next circle was labeled “Gift cards.” You can’t walk into a store and not be assaulted by racks of these things. Those are plastic. What does it have to do with this? There was a line moving from the second circle to the first circle and an arrow labeled “Digital.” I got it! You hit a button on the iPhone and you say, “Give me $50 of Starbucks,” and it gets sent in seconds. Wow.
 The third circle was the most important though. This is what is critical to all of us. The third circle was labeled “Cause.” Here is what gets really interesting. We know as adults that sometimes what isn’t said is almost as important as what is said. Didn't say “charity.” This is a pet peeve of mine. Bear with me. It wasn’t labeled “charity.” To me, a charity is the following. Someone has a hand out, and you put a dollar in that hand. The next thing, he goes into your pocket to get more. That is a charity. A cause is something I want to help. It’s attractive. What can I do?
 I thought about these amazing beings called millennials and younger, the generation after them. Some of the most caring, giving people ever. At least they say so. We want clean water. We don’t want pets to die. We want to make sure everyone has shelter. We want to do all of these things. We, as a little bit older, and some of us have gray hair, and some of us even have hair, we recognize it all costs money. Watch this. Put these three circles together. You mean I can hit a button on my phone and order a brand I am going to shop at and love anyway, whether it’s Amazon, the Gap, TGIF, the movies, ordering pizza, hundreds of places. I hit a button, pay what I’m going to pay, and get the exact amount sent to me within seconds. Because I did that, and Barry Shore arranged it with the brand, some portion of that goes to the cause of my choice. You hear this? I am going to drink coffee, I am going to go out to eat, I am going to go to the movies, I am going to go shopping. Just because I do that, some portion goes here.
 It has to be fast. It has to be easy. It should be fun. It doesn’t cost the giver a penny. Out of this came the two most important sentences I am going to say. A mission and a goal. Hugh, you mentioned to me you work with a lot of groups that are mission-oriented. It’s a mission to go out and spread the word of the Lord. It’s a mission to help people with food. It’s a mission to educate. We are a mission. We need a mission statement. Our mission is four words: Making everyday giving effortless. You like that? Making everyday giving effortless. That is the mission. What is the goal? The big, hairy, audacious goal: the facilitating of giving one billion dollars without costing any giver a penny.
 Hugh: That’s quite amazing, Barry. That is the overarching framework for Dlyted. Is it operational?
 Barry: Thank you for asking. Dlyted attracted great people in the Internet world and investors. We are here to transform philanthropy. Over the past three and a half years, we have built the platform that enables everything to happen that I told you about. I am happy to tell you that we function every day, and we help organizations all the time. We do all the heavy lifting. We build a landing page for a cause, whether it’s a church, a youth group, American Cancer Society. Now they will have their own page where when people come to that page and register, whenever they do their shopping through Dlyted, the money automatically goes to that cause. It is not going to 30 different causes. It goes to that cause. We are concerned about how people can make sure they have an attachment to and stay with their cause, their church, their group, their organization. It becomes fun. Yes, we are operational. We raise money. We have some great stories. People love it. Once they hear about it, think about this. Here is the biggest problem we face. Too good to be true. Am I right?
 Hugh: Barry, speaking of that issue, let’s address that right away. There is money that goes to the charity from the purchase. Where does the money come from?
 Barry: I will give you the simple economics. An Example is Gap. Everybody knows Gap. Millions of people shop there. We negotiated with Gap what we call on the highfalutin language arbitrage, which is the difference between the buy and sell price. When you walk into the store and you see those racks of gift cards, the store makes some money out of selling those. When somebody buys one of those, the store makes a percentage. That percentage, instead of going to the store, is going to be going to the cause. Let’s say a $100 gift card for Gap we are able to get at $90. $5 goes to the cause. It costs us 3.5% to process with a credit card. We get the $1.50 to keep the business going. Each brand has its own particular amount they are able to share with the cause. Instead of going to the store that sells it, it now goes to you.
 Here is where it gets really exciting. I call this the four C’s. The four C’s are the following: Conscious Consumers. Whether you are talking about a 17-year-old who is fired up to change the world or an 87-year-old who understands it costs money to do things, these are conscious consumers. People who want to use their money and time well. I care about what I eat, and I care about who I shop with and buy from. Those are conscious consumers.
  The next C is Conscious Capitalists. I am proud to say that more and more people who run businesses are becoming aware that capitalism is not a dirty word. It is the word that will enable all of us to raise up this great world if we recognize that living together and not squeezing profit is the best way to live. You can turn your profit and become prophetic, from an f to a ph. If your business wants to stay around and really grow, bring in those conscious consumers who want to work with conscious capitalists and are willing to share the bounty.
 The third C is Conscious Causes. There are some causes out there who call themselves charities who are there just to raise money. That’s what they want to do. They don’t want to go out of business. American Cancer Society would like to be out of business in the next few years. Why? Because they cured cancer. We are not looking to raise $100 million so we can have people who have fat salaries. We want to maintain and sustain and grow.
 The fourth C is what I call the Collaborative economy. Are all these three working together understanding? Hugh, you were kind enough to share with me this idea of a number of Methodist churches in Virginia. Collaboration amongst one or two or a number of these can oftentimes yield a greater amount than just being on their own. When you literally collaborate hundreds or thousands of people who are now consciously shopping, again using Dlyted doesn’t cost you money to do it, it may take you a few extra seconds to say you want $300 of Southwest through Dlyted, but I had to do that extra step. Now because of that, $15 just went to help out a mission for kids to go someplace. Think of collaborating 1,000 people with that mindset. These four C’s now become powerful. A lever.
 Let’s go back to Barry Shore. I want to tell you a story about my recovery that may illustrate some of this. May I do that?
 Hugh: Yes, sir. Then I want to hear from Mr. Russell. Go for it. You keep talking, and then we will hear from Russell.
 Barry: Let me tell everybody a story. I am enjoying telling these stories. Hugh, I gotta thank you again. I am loving this. Russell, I hope you are loving this also. I hope all the people listening are loving this because it’s my wife that is the backbone here. It is the good Lord who gave me the energy and the ability for me to be able to express my thanks for allowing me to be of benefit. As I mentioned to you before, everybody thinks they know what www stands for. You think you know. WWW stands for What a Wonderful World. That’s your acronym. We do that ASAP, which stands for Always Say a Prayer. Watch this one, kids.
 Remember, I am a quadriplegic for years. A quad is somebody who is paralyzed from the neck down. As my doctor said so eloquently, “Shore, all you can do is move your mouth.” But you are still moving. Watch this.
 In the course of healing, the good Lord sent me an amazing person who happened to be a neighbor on my street. He saw me in the wheelchair one day and said, “What happened to you?” I told him what was going on. He said, “I am going to have you up and walking in a year.” Hmm, okay, fine. Why? Because he is one of the leading people in the world of aquatic therapy. As you can hear, aquatic therapy means you put somebody in the pool, and you move them around to get your muscles moving, and you get better response in the water. For me, it’s very important because when they were trying to get me up on my feet, oftentimes I would fall down. When you fall down because of gravity on pavement or on the earth, it hurts. I have even sprained and broken bones because of it in therapy. I was very open to this aquatic therapy.
 Gets me in the pool and works with me over the course of months. When they had me in the pool the first time, I had floaties on my legs and my tummy and my arms so I wouldn’t sink and drown.
 Fast forward now. Over the course of a number of months, got me to the point where with floaties on my legs and floaties on my belly, I was able to be on my back and move my arms over my head in the water that I was simulating a backstroke. I am going to make the story a bit shorter because I can go on. Over the course of a year, I was able to swim at the end of the year one mile on my back without stopping. It took me over two hours to do that, but hey, I am in southern California. I am swimming outdoors. I have a great tan, don’t I? I am in the warm pool, so why not? And I am moving my arms. For a quad, that is big time stuff, kids.
 Now I am going to the make the story more amazing. Suffice it to say, within the next year, after I had already swum more than 75 miles, I was able to get on my tummy and still with floaties on my legs, otherwise I would sink, and I had paddles on my hands because my fingers don’t close or the water goes right through, and I use a snorkel because I can’t move my head enough to breathe in. So we have a snorkel, paddles, floaties, and I am outdoors in a warm pool in southern California. I am on my tummy, and over the course of time, I was able to swim a mile on my belly. I put it together, and I was swimming two miles a day six days a week. I have been doing that for almost nine years.
 Hugh: That’s amazing. I am going to let Russell comment. We are heading to the last part of our interview. Anybody out there who thinks they have an excuse probably thinks by now they don’t really have an excuse. You had insurmountable odds. I want to learn more about Dlyted and how people can benefit from the charity they represent. Russell has been patient. Russell, howdy.
 Russell Dennis: Greetings, good to see you again, young Mr. Shore. It has been a long time. What a remarkable story. I love the platform. It just doesn’t- Let me give you an idea of some of the people who are out here. He mentioned a few. Amazon, AMC, AirBnb, Groupon, Southwest Airlines, Xbox, Regal Cinemas, GameStop, Starbucks, Under Armour, Target. These are just a few. What do they give back? Amazon gives 1%. AMC, 5%. Home Depot, 2.5%. You can see exactly what these people are giving to the charity. This is 1, 2, 3. This is what Barry is talking about. Make it easy. Where do you shop? You can buy your stuff online. Sign up, create an account, one. Pick a card, any card. This is not a trick. Then step three, type in who you want to support. It’s that quick and easy. You type them in, that card is locked in. When you run that card, you are supporting that charity. Who can you support? Anybody who has a listing. There is a SynerVision landing page in here.
 Hugh: Oh, there is? I didn’t know that. How did you find that?
 Russell: You must go in and play as you set up your account. It is in here. It is so easy. This is very intuitive. It is very easy to use. You can do this in a matter of minutes. Within three minutes, you are making a donation to your charity. You go to the home page, you click on Start Giving. There is a place to create an account. You can either sign in or create a new account. There I am. I am going to drop my name in right now. There is my name, email, and password. I got fat fingers going here today, guys. Create an Account.
 Hugh: What do you mean, today?
 Russell: I have fat fingers every day. That’s why I have a fat finger tool that is not on my desk. I now have a Dlyted account. Verify my email. It will send me an email. I can go in here now. Amazon.com is my poison. Trust me, I collect books a hell of a lot faster than I read them. It’s that easy. I think it would take a total of three minutes to create an account, pick a card, and pick somebody to support. Once you have set it up, your card is there. Whether you are shopping from your phone—I have friends who have flip phones, I am working on them, Barry. Once I have converted them, I can get them signed up. Hugh doesn’t have a flip phone. I want to say out loud now that Hugh is not one of my flip phone carriers.
 Hugh: Despite my age and mental condition.
 Russell: Oh God, we didn’t make it. We almost made it without that comment.
 Hugh: I’m sorry, it was a cheap shot. Russell, you work with nonprofits everywhere. Many of them struggle to put some funding strings in place. Part of what we teach at SynerVision is there are eight different ways to create revenue streams. This one we group under Earned Income or Business Income. It’s affiliate fees. We recommend or are tied to help people find products they would buy anyway, and a portion of that goes to the charity. Barry’s story is quite remarkable. He did not give up, but he took adversity and reframed it into a benefit for a whole lot of people. That is quite a compelling story. Coming from your position of helping charities think about their funding options, what do you see and hear is a benefit for all those nonprofits, churches, synagogues, that are struggling?
 Russell: Easy is good because a lot of these folks are wearing 6-7 hats. They don’t have the revenues or the support structure. This is collaborative. You get people on your team. It’s low hanging fruit. This is a high-powered platform that has been around for a while. It’s getting better all the time. It’s mobile-friendly. It renders beautifully on my iPad. You have to render beautifully on any mobile device because more giving online is happening from these mobile devices. Any time you can put a platform together that combines online giving, so a charity could very easily share this site, and leverage this, this is something they can earn revenue through. It’s very simple. It’s very easy. Everything is set up. It’s just about driving traffic, which is telling as many of their supporters about it as they possibly can. This is powerful revenue. It’s passive, yet people are coming in. Every way that you can find to support yourself, you should be driving people to that platform. This is stuff they buy all the time.
 They are going to buy it whether they are supporting you or not, so they need to know that platforms are in place like this to leverage this. People are just shopping. Once you set it up, you pick your charity, you can pick several. Once you pick, you’re done. Every time they buy, they don’t have to think about this. They get full dollar value for what they purchase, yet the charity gets a certain percentage depending on the merchant. It’s just getting people to take an extra step. This is something they are doing all the time. It’s not onerous to the person.
 Hugh: Now that you have signed up, you are going to select SynerVision Leadership Foundation as your cause, right?
 Barry: Let me jump in here for a moment. Russell made some remarkably beautiful points. One of the famous studies done on what people fear most, #3 was fear of dying. #1 was speaking in public. Remember that, Russell?
 Russell: Public speaking.
 Barry: #2 is asking other people for money. You said something so genius. What Russell was saying is that the real beauty and benefit of Dlyted, in addition to the fact that you are giving and doing it anyway is that you are sharing. You know why? I sit on a board. I need to raise $1,000. I call up my friends, “Russell, we do business together. You’re a friend. You love me. Can I put you down for $250?” Even if he says yes, which he probably wouldn’t, as sure as we are sitting here, in six months, I am going to get a call from Russell, “Hey Barry, I am raising money. I need your help. Can I put you down for $250?” I am a jerk? I am going to say no? He just gave me $250. So I might as well have just written the check myself. With Dlyted, you can now share this with everybody in your social world because you are never asking anybody for a penny. I don’t fear it anymore because I am not asking you for money.
 Here is where it gets really amazing. You have these Methodist churches in Virginia. You have Russell in Denver. You have Lola who lives up in Alaska. Anybody anywhere in the United States can now support an organization using Dlyted. Whether you live in Alaska, Hawaii, Florida, anywhere, you can now be supporting this little place in Indiana or in Denver. It spreads anybody anywhere anytime, and you never ask anybody for money, so you share, share, share. Everybody has 300 people they talk to. You get a church of 1,000 people, so you could now be talking to tens of thousands of people. You can help us, and it won’t cost you a penny.
 Russell: They are writing a check without writing a check because they buy this stuff anyway. If you spend $500 on Amazon, you are going to give us money. Just go here. You’ll get every penny that you invest in that card. $50 on Amazon will be $50 you spend, but you will be sending $2.50.
 Barry: Watch this one. You just gave me an idea. We have Mother’s Day coming up soon and Father’s Day and birthdays. When you do your gift-giving, because people will send gift cards online, through Dlyted, not only are you giving the gift, but you just made a contribution. Think of Mom. Hey, I just gave Mom $100 of Macys, but I just gave $5 to the church doing it. Mom would love that because I gave her something, and Mom would also be proud of me because I just gave money.
 We touch the two deepest emotions in a human being: I am smart, and I am good. How much smarter can you be than to do good that doesn’t cost you anything? Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, birthdays, anniversaries, holiday time. It’s all part of the flow. Just taking that extra step. Once you get into the habit of doing good, you become a hog, in the Habit of Good.
 Hugh: That’s amazing.
 Russell: You can build a campaign calendar using just about anything. People can do stuff all year round.
 Hugh: Russell, we are moving to a place where we are not going to leave the money on the table. If we don’t access and redirect this money to the charity, it doesn’t go anywhere. It goes to the company. There is that money that is part of their marketing budget. They redirect part of their marketing budget to people who directed the sales.
 Barry, we are on the wrap-up of this inspirational interview. I want to make sure that people understand that I invited you here to tell your story of how leaders do not accept challenges as failure. Leaders succeed because they get up one more time than they fell down. Leaders succeed because they are purpose-driven and they do not see failure as an option. Success is the option. Your creation is something you have done because you care about leaving a legacy, building goodness in the world, and helping other people generate revenue. We are going to continue to talk about ways that SynerVision can help you spread the message. You are a very good and compelling storyteller.
 Thinking about leaders out there, there are people who are on the verge of giving up, who feel like they are so over-loaded they are never going to succeed. There are people out there who don’t see the daylight as they are really there. I am going to give you the last two minutes to give people a tip, thought, or challenge as they go forward.
 Barry, we have spent an hour telling a story. It seems like two minutes to me. We are almost done here. Last two minutes are yours. What do you want to share with people as a parting thought, comment, or challenge?
 Barry: Thank you again, Hugh and Russell for the opportunity to address these amazing people who are making a difference. Go mad, everybody. Go make a difference. I have to leave you with two things. Here they are.
 The first is the four P’s: Purpose, Prayer, Perseverance, and Patience.
 As I mentioned to you, I swim two miles a day, six days a week. I have accumulated enough miles to swim from Los Angeles, California to Hawaii, from Hawaii to Taiwan, and from Taiwan to Shanghai, China. More than 6,578 miles, and I am not stopping. Never give in. Never give in. Never give in. Thank you.
 Hugh: Barry Shore, you are an inspiration. Russell, thanks as always for being here.
 Russell: Thank you. Good to see you again, Barry. I will be doing my shopping on Dlyted.
  
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Barry Shore: Coming from Personal Trauma to Success and Helping Other Succeed</strong></h1> <p><strong><a href="https://www.dlyted.com/"></a>Barry Shore</strong>is an ambassador of Joy.</p> <p>Because of his successes in business and recovery from full body paralysis he has built an “Eco System of Good” internet platform that enables people to Give to their Favorite cause at No Cost.</p> <p>Barry was an instructor in the Diamond Program at the GIA, an author of a world wide resource book on diamonds and an international wholesale diamantaire with sales exceeding 100 Million dollars.</p> <p>After a brief retirement at age 33 he returned to business and built an international telephony company. From this grew an innovative process in 1999 that enabled faxes (sic) to be sent and received via email (think dial up) to 17 countries for FREE (!). Barry was awarded Two Patents in this space and built a stellar executive team. He then sold the Company 18 months later for more than $10 million dollars and the acquiring Company is today a $2 Billion market cap.</p> <p>Then he built a predecessor to Skype (enabling people to call to 17 Counties for FREE) which was funded and then bought within 9 months by a NASDQ company.</p> <p>Then on 17 September 2004 Barry became a quadriplegic  (paralyzed from his neck down!) overnight from a rare neurological disease (GBS).</p> <p>His journey since to regain mobility caused him to GO MAD: Go Make a Difference.</p> <p>He envisioned a Platform that enables People to GIVE Money to their Favorite CAUSE at NoCost to the Giver and attracted smart caring talented successful players to build the System.</p> <p>He has been granted a Patent in the process and has found the Formula to Create the “ECO System of GOOD”: where Supporters, Brands, Causes All Participate for Mutual Benefit.</p> <p>Barry’s Mission is to Make Everyday Giving Effortless and his Big Audacious  Goal is to facilitate the Giving of One Billion Dollars without costing any Giver a penny.</p> <p>He is the Founder of the KEEP SMILING Movement (thedailysmile.com) which has distributed more than 1.2 MILLION KEEP SMILING Cards throughout the world in 27 languages.</p> <p>He is the Founder of the MOL (minute of Love) Podcast produced 6X/week.</p> <p>He has become an avid swimmer (2 miles/day/6x/week) and has accumulated enough miles over 9 years to swim from Venice CA (his home) to Shanghai, China.</p> <p>Barry is focused on transforming the giving space.</p> <p>More Information at <a href="https://www.dlyted.com/">https://www.dlyted.com</a></p> <p><strong>Here's the Transcript for the Interview</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou again on <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> As usual, we have quite an amazing guest today. This guest and I have met passively over the last ten years here and there, just touching base. Recently, a mutual friend connected us, and there was some real synergy. I got to hear Barry’s story again. We all have stories. Very few of us are as good as telling the story as Barry. Barry, today, instead of my normal routine of giving us a bio and telling why you do what you’re doing, I think we are going to build this conversation around your story and what you have created. I’ll tease people: it’s called <em>Dlyted.</em> We won’t tell them about it yet. Introduce yourself, Barry Shore. You’re in California. You take it from there. Tell them about yourself, and then let’s hear your story.</p> <p><strong>Barry Shore:  </strong>Thank you, Hugh Ballou, for being here, being who you are, and being a conduit for good and channeling. Here is my greeting to everybody out there listening. Hello, beautiful, bountiful beings, and good-looking people. How can I make the statement that they are good-looking, Hugh? I know the people who are listening and watching are always looking for the good.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Outstanding.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> The story about Barry Shore is a young, dynamic, debonair, 69-year-old chronological being. The 17thof September, in the year 2004, a mere 14 years ago, I was standing up in the morning just like everybody I hope, watching this Facebook live, and listening to our story. That was in the morning. In the evening, I was in the hospital, paralyzed from my neck down. I became a quadriplegic overnight, in a matter of hours, from a rare disease, not an auto accident, a rare disease called Guillain-Barre Syndrome, GBS, for the cognoscenti. I went from being a healthy, happy, wholly, hearty, dynamic 55-year-old who had been extremely successful in business, married 27 years to a wonderful wife, had a 17-year-old son (at the time), traveling around the world, came back to California for holidays, and now I am paralyzed from my neck down.</p> <p>Here is a great part of the story. The other day, I saw my doctor who has been treating me for a number of years. He likes to recall every time we see each other, “Shore, I remember the first day you called me from the hospital. You said, ‘My name is Barry Shore. I am coming in to see you. All I can move is my mouth.’” Imagine that. In the morning, you’re up and doing, and in the evening, all you can move is your mouth.</p> <p>I will give you the back of the baseball card statistics for the moment, Hugh. That’s how we live in this world, giving people ideas of some things. I am in the hospital for over four and a half months in various kinds of rehabilitation centers. I was in a hospital bed in my home for over two years. Couldn’t turn over by myself. I was in a wheelchair for four years. I had braces on both legs from my hips down to my ankles. Today, thank God, I am able to be vertical and ambulatory with the help of a six-and-a-half foot walking wand that was made for me by a zen master. But I still have help 12 hours a day, seven days a week, and I can’t walk up a stair by myself or a curb. But hear my voice. Feel the passion of life that flows through me because the good Lord has been so kind and giving to me that he activated in me something that enabled me to become a real giver.</p> <p>Here is an example, Hugh. Before all this happened, I had built two Internet companies, one of which I sold for many millions of dollars, was doing very well. Of course, I am a giver. I am generous. I wrote checks. But it was all part of what you do. You help people. You write a check. That’s it. You think you’re a giver. That’s not what a giver is. A giver puts the other beings first. What can I do to be of benefit? It wasn’t part of my very soul. That was the genius and the benefit, what others call adversity. This test and a testament to the good Lord in being able to show me a path that I was able to go from complete, total paralysis to literally being able to now get out of bed, albeit with difficulty, and stand up, albeit with help, and to be positive about that, and to be thankful, and to turn that energy into a channel of goodness. That is the beginning of the story.</p> <p>What I’d like to do as we speak is tell a few incidents along the way that helped me gain this insight.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Sure. As you go on, some people are listening to this that have problems that pale in comparison, like me. I am listening to it trying to understand and learn about myself. What are the motivational factors? What inspired you to not give up to this disease that had a lock on your very body? This is fascinating. Please continue.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Thank you, Hugh. I truly hope that this is beneficial to people listening, and that we all recognize these great words: Never give up. I am living it. I am only here as a channel to be of benefit so that others can say, “If he can do it, I can do it.”</p> <p>Let me give you two small incidents that I think may be of help. The first one occurred after I had been moved out of the ICU, where I had been for about 11 days. They put me in a telemetry unit. A telemetry unit is where nurses can watch you from monitors and such. I had this great run. I was a single occupant in a great hospital. Not moving anything of my body, I am just there. They had to set up something special on my bed just to bump my head because I couldn’t hit a call button. Here I am in bed in the telemetry unit. A nurse came in at midnight or so. I am not able to sleep because you are not moving a lot. They have to inject drugs in you to get you to sleep. The nurse said, “Mr. Shore, would you like to watch a movie? Maybe that will help put you to sleep.” I assented and chose a biography of Abraham Lincoln. Of course, we all know how that turns out. Not so good. Toward the end, I had tears in my eyes.</p> <p>Imagine you are lying in bed with tears in your eyes. Everybody knows that tears are salty. They hurt. What do you do? You wipe them away, right? Well, I can’t move my hands. I can’t move my arms. I am new to this stuff. Nothing in my body is moving. I couldn’t move my head left or right enough to move the tears out, and the button that had been put up behind my head had been moved somehow. I couldn’t reach the nurse. Of course, I can’t just sit there because it hurts. I resolved, I am going to call out. I did. “Help! Help! Please!” My voice had been compromised also. I could barely speak. I resolved to count to ten and then call out again if the nurse doesn’t show up. I got to four, and the pain was too much. So I called out, and I mustered all of my strength, “Help! Nurse, please!” By the time I counted to four, the nurse was at the door. “Mr. Shore, did you call?” “Yes, my eyes!” She came over and saw there were tears in my eyes. She cleaned them and fixed the button behind my head. Looks at me and says, “Is that all?” “Yes, thank you.” I recognized then no one really knows the pain of another. She didn’t know how much it hurt. I couldn’t express myself. Thankfully, she came in and cleaned it up.</p> <p>About a week later, I am being wheeled on a gurney from a test they had run on me. People picked me up, took me on the gurney, ran the test, and brought me back. There was a male nurse taking care of me. I had interacted with him three or four times over the past few days. Pleasant fellow. He looked down at me and asked, “Mr. Shore, can I ask you a personal question?” I said yes. He says, “I am a male nurse. I see people in your condition frequently. I have never met anybody who is not angry and bitter. You’re paralyzed. How come you’re not angry and bitter?” I realized he was asking me the great existential question: Why me? Why dear Lord did you do this to me? But I wasn’t thinking like that. I was asking the question: Why me in the sense of who am I? I am just a guy. What do you want from me, dear Lord? What can I do?</p> <p>At that moment, Hugh, I reached deep inside of me, and I asked the good Lord, “Please help heal me. Please show me my purpose.” A wave of serenity and calm came over me that I had not known in 55 years. I was now determined with the good Lord’s help to walk again. That was a major turning point in my life.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> So nothing gets Barry Shore down. That was how many years ago?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> That was in 2004, almost 14 years ago now.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You had a very successful career before that.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Correct.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You sold that enterprise, you said?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And then this condition- how do you say it?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Guillame-Barre syndrome. It is actually two French doctors, Guillame, which is the French for William, and the other doctor’s name was Barre, like Barry.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I have known people in the past who have had that, who have come through it. It’s quite a traumatic experience. Today, you are in a different place than you were with your business. But you have focused on doing good for others. Is that right?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> That’s correct.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I looked at a website called- Spell it for us.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> It is spelled D as in David, L as in Love, Y as in Yesterday, T as in Terrific, E as Enthusiastic, D as in Dynamic, DLYTED.com. I am Dlyted to be here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I can see that. What is Dlyted about, and what was the passion and inspiration behind you setting up- Dlyted is more than one thing. It’s more than one program, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Yes. Dlyted is an engine of philanthropy. Let me digress for just a moment because it gives the background as you want to hear. It’s very important. I was deeply affected by something that I learned from a great man called the Four P’s. Those four P’s are Purpose, Prayer, Perseverance, and Patience. Those four P’s have been active in my life. I was able through them to begin this process of healing, both in a spiritual and physical sense, and bring out through purpose and prayer, the great perseverance, which I will demonstrate in just a moment, and patience, this platform, which has a mission and a goal.</p> <p>Let me tell you how it came about. It has to do with my wonderful wife. I would not be sitting here as strong and capable and handsome as I am, speaking with you, if it was not for my amazing, dedicated, fabulous wife, Naomi. It’s hard for me to speak without choking up, but I am going to try and do it.</p> <p>I will just tell you a brief story as it deserves longer, but time is always of the essence. Released from the hospital about four and a half months later—they wouldn’t keep me there longer because insurance wouldn’t pay, and we had already racked up bills over half a million dollars—I was in the special hospital bed. When you are in the hospital, by the way, one of the more important things to be afraid and aware of is bed sores. They are debilitating. We had to get a special bed, which the insurance company didn’t want to do, but they were forced to because of circumstances. It is a special air mattress that allows the body to conform without the issue of bed sores. We brought this bed to our home.</p> <p>While in the hospital, every night, you have to turn people over who are paralyzed because if you keep people in the same position, the body deteriorates. They have a team who goes around the hospital every two and a half to three hours, two people with back braces, usually strong people. Together, they turn the person onto the side, then the other, to give some sort of normality to your process in the hospital. This happened throughout the months I was in the hospital.</p> <p>Now we come home. We had sufficient funds, so we were able to have help in the home 24 hours a day, seven days a week, except for one thing. My wonderful wife did not want people staying overnight in her home that she doesn’t know. She is very protective. We had help until 10 pm, and then help would come again at 7 am. But during the evening, she was going to take care of me, and she was in charge. Her home, her rules. Great.</p> <p>One small situation, though. My wife is all of 97 pounds, 5’1”, very beautiful. Remember, I just told you in the hospital, you have to be turned over every 2.5/3 hours. Here I am, almost 6’. Because of my situation, I had been reduced from 195 pounds to 137. But still, 137 pounds, and she is all of 5’1” and 97 pounds. She said that she is going to turn me over. She did. Every two and a half hours, throughout the evening, two or three times a night, night in and night out, week in and week out, month in and month out, for two years, this amazing woman turned me. That is love.</p> <p>I say this as a preface to the following incident. I mentioned also I was in a wheelchair for four years. Thank God we could afford it. I had a motorized wheelchair and a fancy Olympic-style wheelchair. Together, they cost almost $10,000. The lightweight wheelchair we needed because in addition to having private therapy, I also went to group therapy in the hospital. It’s important to be with other people who have situations and challenges when in a situation like this, just to be in comradery. At these situations in the hospital, I noticed not everybody could afford the kind of wheelchairs I had.</p> <p>One day, I came home and was still back in bed. I said to my wife, “Honey, would you please find a place that helps people get wheelchairs? Let’s send them a check for $1,000 and help out.” She said okay. She left the room. I am feeling great. I am just a quad lying in bed, but I am feeling good. I just gave $1,000 to help people get wheelchairs.</p> <p>About five minutes later, I called out, “This is dumb! This is dumb!” I didn’t raise my hands. I called it out. My wife comes running into the room and asks, “What’s the matter?” I said, “This is dumb. Just because I was moved and we can afford to write a check, why isn’t it that there are tens of thousands of people not giving money every single day to help out other people? Why not?” My wife said, “Hey, Mr. Shore, you’re smart. You build stuff on the Internet. Make it happen.” And she walked out of the room.</p> <p>I am laying there. I said, “Okay. Dear Lord, why not? Please help me.” I had a few parameters. One was it has to be easy. If it’s not easy, Hugh, people don’t do it. Right, Russell? That’s number one. Number two is it has to be vast and almost fun. Imagine that. We put the fun back in fundraising. Number three, you’re going to love this one, it has to be free. What does that mean? I mentioned to you I already built two Internet companies, one of which I sold for many millions of dollars. Both of those companies were based on the free model. One was faxing for free, and the other was speaking for free. They were built on the ability to do something for free. How do you give money for free? Russell is scratching his bald head not understanding that. I think I believe you, Barry Shore. You’re a friend of Hugh’s, but what do you mean give money for free? Those were the parameters. I tried to go to sleep.</p> <p>The next day, I was doing a lot of exercise. We had people coming to the house. I am still a quad. I have people moving my body around trying to get it to do things. Move your arm up, move your leg, do stuff like that. To this very day, I can’t wiggle my toes. I can’t move my feet up and down. I am able to get around. After a very exhausting therapy session, they put me back into bed. I am laying there, closing my eyes. My eyes pop open, and I see a vision. I see three circles intersecting like the circles from the Olympics or a Venn diagram. Not only that, but each circle was labeled, to show you how the good Lord works. It was a simple, elegant answer to the questions. If it is not simple and elegant, it doesn’t work. If it’s too hard, it doesn’t happen. The best problems are simple, not simplistic, but simple to solve.</p> <p>The first circle was labeled “Mobile” or cell. About ten years ago, it was the first year of these things called Smartphones. Think back ten years. Just coming out. Well, hey, I am in the Internet, I am in the world. I realized this was not a trend or a fad. This is a complete disruption in human communications. Look what we are doing now, ten years later. This stuff did not exist. This is a change in the world.</p> <p>The next circle was labeled “Gift cards.” You can’t walk into a store and not be assaulted by racks of these things. Those are plastic. What does it have to do with this? There was a line moving from the second circle to the first circle and an arrow labeled “Digital.” I got it! You hit a button on the iPhone and you say, “Give me $50 of Starbucks,” and it gets sent in seconds. Wow.</p> <p>The third circle was the most important though. This is what is critical to all of us. The third circle was labeled “Cause.” Here is what gets really interesting. We know as adults that sometimes what isn’t said is almost as important as what is said. Didn't say “charity.” This is a pet peeve of mine. Bear with me. It wasn’t labeled “charity.” To me, a charity is the following. Someone has a hand out, and you put a dollar in that hand. The next thing, he goes into your pocket to get more. That is a charity. A cause is something I want to help. It’s attractive. What can I do?</p> <p>I thought about these amazing beings called millennials and younger, the generation after them. Some of the most caring, giving people ever. At least they say so. We want clean water. We don’t want pets to die. We want to make sure everyone has shelter. We want to do all of these things. We, as a little bit older, and some of us have gray hair, and some of us even have hair, we recognize it all costs money. Watch this. Put these three circles together. You mean I can hit a button on my phone and order a brand I am going to shop at and love anyway, whether it’s Amazon, the Gap, TGIF, the movies, ordering pizza, hundreds of places. I hit a button, pay what I’m going to pay, and get the exact amount sent to me within seconds. Because I did that, and Barry Shore arranged it with the brand, some portion of that goes to the cause of my choice. You hear this? I am going to drink coffee, I am going to go out to eat, I am going to go to the movies, I am going to go shopping. Just because I do that, some portion goes here.</p> <p>It has to be fast. It has to be easy. It should be fun. It doesn’t cost the giver a penny. Out of this came the two most important sentences I am going to say. A mission and a goal. Hugh, you mentioned to me you work with a lot of groups that are mission-oriented. It’s a mission to go out and spread the word of the Lord. It’s a mission to help people with food. It’s a mission to educate. We are a mission. We need a mission statement. Our mission is four words: Making everyday giving effortless. You like that? Making everyday giving effortless. That is the mission. What is the goal? The big, hairy, audacious goal: the facilitating of giving one billion dollars without costing any giver a penny.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s quite amazing, Barry. That is the overarching framework for Dlyted. Is it operational?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Thank you for asking. Dlyted attracted great people in the Internet world and investors. We are here to transform philanthropy. Over the past three and a half years, we have built the platform that enables everything to happen that I told you about. I am happy to tell you that we function every day, and we help organizations all the time. We do all the heavy lifting. We build a landing page for a cause, whether it’s a church, a youth group, American Cancer Society. Now they will have their own page where when people come to that page and register, whenever they do their shopping through Dlyted, the money automatically goes to that cause. It is not going to 30 different causes. It goes to that cause. We are concerned about how people can make sure they have an attachment to and stay with their cause, their church, their group, their organization. It becomes fun. Yes, we are operational. We raise money. We have some great stories. People love it. Once they hear about it, think about this. Here is the biggest problem we face. Too good to be true. Am I right?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Barry, speaking of that issue, let’s address that right away. There is money that goes to the charity from the purchase. Where does the money come from?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> I will give you the simple economics. An Example is Gap. Everybody knows Gap. Millions of people shop there. We negotiated with Gap what we call on the highfalutin language arbitrage, which is the difference between the buy and sell price. When you walk into the store and you see those racks of gift cards, the store makes some money out of selling those. When somebody buys one of those, the store makes a percentage. That percentage, instead of going to the store, is going to be going to the cause. Let’s say a $100 gift card for Gap we are able to get at $90. $5 goes to the cause. It costs us 3.5% to process with a credit card. We get the $1.50 to keep the business going. Each brand has its own particular amount they are able to share with the cause. Instead of going to the store that sells it, it now goes to you.</p> <p>Here is where it gets really exciting. I call this the four C’s. The four C’s are the following: Conscious Consumers. Whether you are talking about a 17-year-old who is fired up to change the world or an 87-year-old who understands it costs money to do things, these are conscious consumers. People who want to use their money and time well. I care about what I eat, and I care about who I shop with and buy from. Those are conscious consumers.</p> <p> The next C is Conscious Capitalists. I am proud to say that more and more people who run businesses are becoming aware that capitalism is not a dirty word. It is the word that will enable all of us to raise up this great world if we recognize that living together and not squeezing profit is the best way to live. You can turn your profit and become prophetic, from an f to a ph. If your business wants to stay around and really grow, bring in those conscious consumers who want to work with conscious capitalists and are willing to share the bounty.</p> <p>The third C is Conscious Causes. There are some causes out there who call themselves charities who are there just to raise money. That’s what they want to do. They don’t want to go out of business. American Cancer Society would like to be out of business in the next few years. Why? Because they cured cancer. We are not looking to raise $100 million so we can have people who have fat salaries. We want to maintain and sustain and grow.</p> <p>The fourth C is what I call the Collaborative economy. Are all these three working together understanding? Hugh, you were kind enough to share with me this idea of a number of Methodist churches in Virginia. Collaboration amongst one or two or a number of these can oftentimes yield a greater amount than just being on their own. When you literally collaborate hundreds or thousands of people who are now consciously shopping, again using Dlyted doesn’t cost you money to do it, it may take you a few extra seconds to say you want $300 of Southwest through Dlyted, but I had to do that extra step. Now because of that, $15 just went to help out a mission for kids to go someplace. Think of collaborating 1,000 people with that mindset. These four C’s now become powerful. A lever.</p> <p>Let’s go back to Barry Shore. I want to tell you a story about my recovery that may illustrate some of this. May I do that?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes, sir. Then I want to hear from Mr. Russell. Go for it. You keep talking, and then we will hear from Russell.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Let me tell everybody a story. I am enjoying telling these stories. Hugh, I gotta thank you again. I am loving this. Russell, I hope you are loving this also. I hope all the people listening are loving this because it’s my wife that is the backbone here. It is the good Lord who gave me the energy and the ability for me to be able to express my thanks for allowing me to be of benefit. As I mentioned to you before, everybody thinks they know what www stands for. You think you know. WWW stands for What a Wonderful World. That’s your acronym. We do that ASAP, which stands for Always Say a Prayer. Watch this one, kids.</p> <p>Remember, I am a quadriplegic for years. A quad is somebody who is paralyzed from the neck down. As my doctor said so eloquently, “Shore, all you can do is move your mouth.” But you are still moving. Watch this.</p> <p>In the course of healing, the good Lord sent me an amazing person who happened to be a neighbor on my street. He saw me in the wheelchair one day and said, “What happened to you?” I told him what was going on. He said, “I am going to have you up and walking in a year.” Hmm, okay, fine. Why? Because he is one of the leading people in the world of aquatic therapy. As you can hear, aquatic therapy means you put somebody in the pool, and you move them around to get your muscles moving, and you get better response in the water. For me, it’s very important because when they were trying to get me up on my feet, oftentimes I would fall down. When you fall down because of gravity on pavement or on the earth, it hurts. I have even sprained and broken bones because of it in therapy. I was very open to this aquatic therapy.</p> <p>Gets me in the pool and works with me over the course of months. When they had me in the pool the first time, I had floaties on my legs and my tummy and my arms so I wouldn’t sink and drown.</p> <p>Fast forward now. Over the course of a number of months, got me to the point where with floaties on my legs and floaties on my belly, I was able to be on my back and move my arms over my head in the water that I was simulating a backstroke. I am going to make the story a bit shorter because I can go on. Over the course of a year, I was able to swim at the end of the year one mile on my back without stopping. It took me over two hours to do that, but hey, I am in southern California. I am swimming outdoors. I have a great tan, don’t I? I am in the warm pool, so why not? And I am moving my arms. For a quad, that is big time stuff, kids.</p> <p>Now I am going to the make the story more amazing. Suffice it to say, within the next year, after I had already swum more than 75 miles, I was able to get on my tummy and still with floaties on my legs, otherwise I would sink, and I had paddles on my hands because my fingers don’t close or the water goes right through, and I use a snorkel because I can’t move my head enough to breathe in. So we have a snorkel, paddles, floaties, and I am outdoors in a warm pool in southern California. I am on my tummy, and over the course of time, I was able to swim a mile on my belly. I put it together, and I was swimming two miles a day six days a week. I have been doing that for almost nine years.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s amazing. I am going to let Russell comment. We are heading to the last part of our interview. Anybody out there who thinks they have an excuse probably thinks by now they don’t really have an excuse. You had insurmountable odds. I want to learn more about Dlyted and how people can benefit from the charity they represent. Russell has been patient. Russell, howdy.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Greetings, good to see you again, young Mr. Shore. It has been a long time. What a remarkable story. I love the platform. It just doesn’t- Let me give you an idea of some of the people who are out here. He mentioned a few. Amazon, AMC, AirBnb, Groupon, Southwest Airlines, Xbox, Regal Cinemas, GameStop, Starbucks, Under Armour, Target. These are just a few. What do they give back? Amazon gives 1%. AMC, 5%. Home Depot, 2.5%. You can see exactly what these people are giving to the charity. This is 1, 2, 3. This is what Barry is talking about. Make it easy. Where do you shop? You can buy your stuff online. Sign up, create an account, one. Pick a card, any card. This is not a trick. Then step three, type in who you want to support. It’s that quick and easy. You type them in, that card is locked in. When you run that card, you are supporting that charity. Who can you support? Anybody who has a listing. There is a SynerVision landing page in here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh, there is? I didn’t know that. How did you find that?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You must go in and play as you set up your account. It is in here. It is so easy. This is very intuitive. It is very easy to use. You can do this in a matter of minutes. Within three minutes, you are making a donation to your charity. You go to the home page, you click on Start Giving. There is a place to create an account. You can either sign in or create a new account. There I am. I am going to drop my name in right now. There is my name, email, and password. I got fat fingers going here today, guys. Create an Account.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What do you mean, today?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I have fat fingers every day. That’s why I have a fat finger tool that is not on my desk. I now have a Dlyted account. Verify my email. It will send me an email. I can go in here now. Amazon.com is my poison. Trust me, I collect books a hell of a lot faster than I read them. It’s that easy. I think it would take a total of three minutes to create an account, pick a card, and pick somebody to support. Once you have set it up, your card is there. Whether you are shopping from your phone—I have friends who have flip phones, I am working on them, Barry. Once I have converted them, I can get them signed up. Hugh doesn’t have a flip phone. I want to say out loud now that Hugh is not one of my flip phone carriers.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Despite my age and mental condition.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Oh God, we didn’t make it. We almost made it without that comment.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m sorry, it was a cheap shot. Russell, you work with nonprofits everywhere. Many of them struggle to put some funding strings in place. Part of what we teach at SynerVision is there are eight different ways to create revenue streams. This one we group under Earned Income or Business Income. It’s affiliate fees. We recommend or are tied to help people find products they would buy anyway, and a portion of that goes to the charity. Barry’s story is quite remarkable. He did not give up, but he took adversity and reframed it into a benefit for a whole lot of people. That is quite a compelling story. Coming from your position of helping charities think about their funding options, what do you see and hear is a benefit for all those nonprofits, churches, synagogues, that are struggling?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Easy is good because a lot of these folks are wearing 6-7 hats. They don’t have the revenues or the support structure. This is collaborative. You get people on your team. It’s low hanging fruit. This is a high-powered platform that has been around for a while. It’s getting better all the time. It’s mobile-friendly. It renders beautifully on my iPad. You have to render beautifully on any mobile device because more giving online is happening from these mobile devices. Any time you can put a platform together that combines online giving, so a charity could very easily share this site, and leverage this, this is something they can earn revenue through. It’s very simple. It’s very easy. Everything is set up. It’s just about driving traffic, which is telling as many of their supporters about it as they possibly can. This is powerful revenue. It’s passive, yet people are coming in. Every way that you can find to support yourself, you should be driving people to that platform. This is stuff they buy all the time.</p> <p>They are going to buy it whether they are supporting you or not, so they need to know that platforms are in place like this to leverage this. People are just shopping. Once you set it up, you pick your charity, you can pick several. Once you pick, you’re done. Every time they buy, they don’t have to think about this. They get full dollar value for what they purchase, yet the charity gets a certain percentage depending on the merchant. It’s just getting people to take an extra step. This is something they are doing all the time. It’s not onerous to the person.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Now that you have signed up, you are going to select SynerVision Leadership Foundation as your cause, right?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Let me jump in here for a moment. Russell made some remarkably beautiful points. One of the famous studies done on what people fear most, #3 was fear of dying. #1 was speaking in public. Remember that, Russell?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Public speaking.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> #2 is asking other people for money. You said something so genius. What Russell was saying is that the real beauty and benefit of Dlyted, in addition to the fact that you are giving and doing it anyway is that you are sharing. You know why? I sit on a board. I need to raise $1,000. I call up my friends, “Russell, we do business together. You’re a friend. You love me. Can I put you down for $250?” Even if he says yes, which he probably wouldn’t, as sure as we are sitting here, in six months, I am going to get a call from Russell, “Hey Barry, I am raising money. I need your help. Can I put you down for $250?” I am a jerk? I am going to say no? He just gave me $250. So I might as well have just written the check myself. With Dlyted, you can now share this with everybody in your social world because you are never asking anybody for a penny. I don’t fear it anymore because I am not asking you for money.</p> <p>Here is where it gets really amazing. You have these Methodist churches in Virginia. You have Russell in Denver. You have Lola who lives up in Alaska. Anybody anywhere in the United States can now support an organization using Dlyted. Whether you live in Alaska, Hawaii, Florida, anywhere, you can now be supporting this little place in Indiana or in Denver. It spreads anybody anywhere anytime, and you never ask anybody for money, so you share, share, share. Everybody has 300 people they talk to. You get a church of 1,000 people, so you could now be talking to tens of thousands of people. You can help us, and it won’t cost you a penny.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> They are writing a check without writing a check because they buy this stuff anyway. If you spend $500 on Amazon, you are going to give us money. Just go here. You’ll get every penny that you invest in that card. $50 on Amazon will be $50 you spend, but you will be sending $2.50.</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Watch this one. You just gave me an idea. We have Mother’s Day coming up soon and Father’s Day and birthdays. When you do your gift-giving, because people will send gift cards online, through Dlyted, not only are you giving the gift, but you just made a contribution. Think of Mom. Hey, I just gave Mom $100 of Macys, but I just gave $5 to the church doing it. Mom would love that because I gave her something, and Mom would also be proud of me because I just gave money.</p> <p>We touch the two deepest emotions in a human being: I am smart, and I am good. How much smarter can you be than to do good that doesn’t cost you anything? Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, birthdays, anniversaries, holiday time. It’s all part of the flow. Just taking that extra step. Once you get into the habit of doing good, you become a hog, in the Habit of Good.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s amazing.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You can build a campaign calendar using just about anything. People can do stuff all year round.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, we are moving to a place where we are not going to leave the money on the table. If we don’t access and redirect this money to the charity, it doesn’t go anywhere. It goes to the company. There is that money that is part of their marketing budget. They redirect part of their marketing budget to people who directed the sales.</p> <p>Barry, we are on the wrap-up of this inspirational interview. I want to make sure that people understand that I invited you here to tell your story of how leaders do not accept challenges as failure. Leaders succeed because they get up one more time than they fell down. Leaders succeed because they are purpose-driven and they do not see failure as an option. Success is the option. Your creation is something you have done because you care about leaving a legacy, building goodness in the world, and helping other people generate revenue. We are going to continue to talk about ways that SynerVision can help you spread the message. You are a very good and compelling storyteller.</p> <p>Thinking about leaders out there, there are people who are on the verge of giving up, who feel like they are so over-loaded they are never going to succeed. There are people out there who don’t see the daylight as they are really there. I am going to give you the last two minutes to give people a tip, thought, or challenge as they go forward.</p> <p>Barry, we have spent an hour telling a story. It seems like two minutes to me. We are almost done here. Last two minutes are yours. What do you want to share with people as a parting thought, comment, or challenge?</p> <p><strong>Barry:</strong> Thank you again, Hugh and Russell for the opportunity to address these amazing people who are making a difference. Go mad, everybody. Go make a difference. I have to leave you with two things. Here they are.</p> <p>The first is the four P’s: Purpose, Prayer, Perseverance, and Patience.</p> <p>As I mentioned to you, I swim two miles a day, six days a week. I have accumulated enough miles to swim from Los Angeles, California to Hawaii, from Hawaii to Taiwan, and from Taiwan to Shanghai, China. More than 6,578 miles, and I am not stopping. Never give in. Never give in. Never give in. Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Barry Shore, you are an inspiration. Russell, thanks as always for being here.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thank you. Good to see you again, Barry. I will be doing my shopping on Dlyted.</p>  <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>7 Steps To Building Awesome Customer/Donor Relations​</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/7-steps-tobuilding-awesome-customerdonor-relations</link>
      <description>Danna Olivo is a Business Growth Sequencing Strategist and CEO of MarketAtomy, LLC. Her passion is working with small first stage entrepreneurs to ensure that they start out on the right foot and stay on the path to financial freedom. Known as the Business Birthing Specialist, Danna understands the intricacies involved in starting and running a successful business. Her efforts extend beyond the initial strategic planning process on into the implementation and monitoring phase. As an intricate component ingrained into her client’s business structure, she works diligently to keep her client’s accountable and on track to fulfilling their success goals.
 A graduate of the University of Central Florida’s College of Business, Danna holds degrees in both Marketing and Management Information Systems (MIS). She brings more than 35 years of strategic planning experience in business, marketing and business development both nationally and internationally.
 Danna is not only a professional business growth strategist but has worked as an International Strategist within the country of Brazil, is a public speaker and #1 Best Selling Author on Amazon with “Success From The Heart” and “Journey To The Stage.” Her newest book “MarketAtomy: What To Expect When Expecting A Business” is now available through Amazon on Kindle.
 What You will learn in this session:
  What do Sponsors/Donors Expect
 How to Build an Infrastructure to support the Donor Experience
 The 7 steps for creating a lasting Donor Experience
   
 Here's the Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Our guest today is Danna Olivo. First day with the new teeth. Danna and I have been colleagues for a while, and I have grown to appreciate her work more each time I hear her present. We are talking about sponsors and donors and how to really keep that relationship at the highest level because it’s good for them, it’s good for us. We just need to know how to do the talking and create a system around that. I am not going to waste any more time. I like for guests to introduce themselves, so tell us a wee bit, a couple of minutes, about your background and what prepared you for being able to do this powerful work on this topic. Before you finish, talk about why you chose this. What is your passion for this?
 Danna Olivo: Oh goodness. As Hugh said, my name is Danna Olivo. I like to call myself the Business Birthing Specialist. The reason that I go by that title is because I like working with early-stage and emerging entrepreneurs, whether they are nonprofit or for-profit. They are still in that birthing stage of their company. I am a business growth strategist at heart. That is backed up with more than 40 years in marketing, business development, and sales. That is where we get around to the experience that we are talking about: creating donor and sponsor experience. I work with for-profits and nonprofits to basically teach them how to build an infrastructure that attracts customers to their door and ultimately create an experience where they come out as advocates on the back end. That is where my background is.
 Hugh: You have taught at my live leadership empowerment symposium events. You and I are cooking up an event. We will do that again in Florida. We come to Florida on a regular basis. We are going to tag onto it a funding conference. Some of the stuff we are talking about will specifically be talking about fund sourcing and activation and maintenance for those running charities. It could be a church, synagogue, a membership organization, a cause-based charity. Any people doing, and really these are social entrepreneurs. That is still your sweet spot.
 Danna: Whether you are dealing with for-profit companies, nonprofit companies, churches, the thing to keep in mind is we are still dealing with a business. We are still dealing with entrepreneurs. We have to also keep in mind we are still dealing with customers. Whether they be sponsors or donors or customers or parishioners, they are customers. We have to keep that mindset when we are thinking about it.
 Hugh: You are so spot-on. We tend to think things are going to happen because we have a charitable cause. Not really. We are not really good at defining why it’s important and the impact of our work. We don’t really attract the money we deserve to attract because we are doing good work. We have a lot of different themes that we deal with in this episode. This podcast has been going on for three years. We have interviewed specialists like you who have brought some really good content. You are in good company as are they today.
 Danna, let’s set the stage a little bit. What is your passion for helping early-stage entrepreneurs get their head around this really important topic of donor/sponsorship?
 Danna: My passion stems from failures in the past. That is where a lot of my passion comes from. The mistakes learned and wanting to teach others how to avoid those mistakes. Working with small businesses, whether nonprofit or for-profit, but we are going to focus on nonprofit. When you start a business, a nonprofit business, it is cause-based generally. Cause-based businesses are emotional. You are tapping into the emotion. That is what you’re trying to do. Well, therefore, going after those customers, those sponsors and donors, you need to match that emotion to those sponsors and donors in order to get them to buy into your cause, right? Where my purpose is is teaching early-stage entrepreneurs there is a sequence to this. There is a sequence behind the research that has to go in to target those individuals that are more likely to emotionally buy into your cause, but also to understand what that messaging is that needs to be developed in order to reach those people. Not only on the sponsor/donor side, but what about on the other side? The people who are coming in that need your services, need your social platform. They need what you are providing through your platform.
 Hugh: In business, whether it is a nonprofit, you’re right. We need to install sound business practices in the charities or religious institutions we run. It is a business with more rules than a for-profit business. We are regulated with good reason. The people can give us money and write it off on their taxes for good reason, or sponsors can give us marketing money because we create value for everyone. There is a little different nuance for sponsors and donors.
 Let’s take the donor piece first. We ask people to donate and support a cause. This is what’s going to happen. Then they fall off by the wayside and they don’t donate again, or they don’t tell other people. What is the biggest problem you see, the gap that hasn’t been filled with people running an organization and managing these donor relations?
 Danna: Their structure. The structure that they put in place. It’s one thing to get those donors, to get those sponsors to the door. But if you cannot create that experience that I talk about, which involves the structure of the organization, then you are not going to be able to carry them through and create that experience that will turn them into advocates afterwards. Ultimately, that is what we want to do. We want to create our own sales team or our own promotional team on the back end because of the experiences that they had while working with our program.
 Hugh: Okay. I get that. That is theory. Turn it into practice. What does that structure look like? If somebody is listening to this and goes, “Wow, I need to maintain this relationship, but I don’t know where to start.” What does that structure look like?
 Danna: Oh goodness. You can start so many different places. First of all, you have to put yourself in the mindset of the sponsor or the donor. What are they looking for? What are their expectations? They are expecting to get out of this relationship that they are with you on. On the sponsor side, are there expectations to really create a brand out there in the marketplace by helping you in creating more of a brand recognition on the social side? On the donor side, are they really- Do they want to feel empowered by helping something they are really emotional about? What is it that they are expecting? Most of the time, what you are going to be looking at is they want to be appreciated. If they are not shown appreciation, or they want to see transparency, and especially on the nonprofit side because if they don’t feel as though their money is being utilized the way it should be utilized, and as promised, chances are you won’t get them back again. That’s what we want. We want these donors and sponsors to come back again and again, especially when we have to depend on federal dollars as well. Those federal dollars can be pulled at any time.
 Hugh: It’s really hard to get donors. We are competing with all these other charities out there. We want to have a process of maintaining that relationship. We don’t think about the donors until it’s time to donate again, and then we send a panicked letter saying, “We need your donation for next year,” but we haven’t talked to them all year.
 Danna: That is it. That is what I am talking about. They want to feel as though they are appreciated. They want and expect you to keep them in the loop. How are their dollars doing? What’s happening? Show them the results. Give them the statistics.
 Hugh: Say that again.
 Danna: You need to consistently be communicating with them. You need to show them what their dollars are doing as far as your cause. What are those statistics? How many of those lives are you affecting? How many people are you helping with the dollars they are giving you?
 Hugh: Why are those important?
 Danna: First of all, consider the fact that they are giving because they are passionate about their giving. They want to make sure that you are using their money to make a difference. That is one reason. They are passionate. This is their way of contributing. If you are not being transparent about it, they will go somewhere else that is doing the same thing in hopes they will be doing better.
 Hugh: I think it’s probably gratifying for a donor to see I gave this money, and you say, “This is what we were able to do with your money.”
 Danna: A perfect example is my husband and I like contributing to the Smile Organization, primarily because we had relatives in the past that have had cleft lips. There is an organization out there that helped those who have deformed lips, cleft lips, that create these smiles. These are children. It really means a lot to us when we see one of these children being able to smile again and feeling good about what has happened after one of these surgeries. These surgeries don’t cost a lot in these foreign countries.
 Hugh: That is such a great example. Several times in my life, I ran with the Leukemia/Lymphoma Society and pledged to raise a few thousand for leukemia and lymphoma research. At the race, I was connected to a particular patient with a wristband. It had their name, age, and condition on it. I was running for one person, but also for others, and I felt really purposed. Going back to the people who donated for me to run, they were betting on whether I would finish or not I’m sure, but they donated that few thousand and I did the running. We’ve been joined by the good-looking Russell Dennis in Denver, Colorado, and he just snuck in. He has experience in the funding seat for 11 years. Is that right, Russ?
 Russell Dennis: It is good to see you, Danna and Hugh.
 Danna: Haven’t seen you since the last time we were on together.
 Russell: That’s been far too long. With donors, one thing I find with people is that there is something magic about face-to-face contact. If you can have some non-ask events where you are not asking for money, just bringing them in to meet some of the people who are benefiting from your dollars, have them tour your facility, talk to other people, show them the exciting things their money is doing, and keeping them in the loop. Some people are going to want to be contacted more than others. It’s having a system to keep track of people and keep those connections. It is really something that if you can, you should have a single person try to keep the flow going. A director will do a lot of the face to face, but you want somebody to keep that communication loop open.
 Danna: That’s what I’m saying. You need to communicate with them. Involve them in the process, show them how their dollars are working, and help them be involved in it, as far as that’s concerned. First of all, the donors aren’t mind-readers. If you are not communicating with them, they are going to assume, and you don’t want them assuming. You want them to feel comfortable with where their dollars are being spent, and that they are making a difference. Am I right, Russell?
 Russell: Spot on. At least, you can survey. It is just asking how are we doing, what would you like to see more of. They won’t know what they want to see more of if they don’t know what you’re doing. Keeping them in the loop is important. Surveying them-
 Danna: Serving on one of the boards of a local nonprofit here, one of the biggest things that nonprofits do run into is the budget cuts with federal dollars. I was sitting in on the board of Hope and Help, which is HIV/AIDS awareness. One of the biggest struggles we had was the fact that the other agencies like ours were fighting for these federal dollars. We didn’t really have in place any kind of public in-flow, or what we did have was very little. All we had was one major annual event that we did. That event only happened once a year. The dollars that we have to spend on expenses happen every month. That is where these sponsored dollars and donor dollars come in. Why should we have to rely only on federal money, which constantly is being cut back, and we never know we are going to have it year to year because there are other agencies fighting for it? How do we build those relationships with donors that we can count on every year? That is where we are going with this. Through transparency and by creating that donor experience that we can count on every year because we are meeting each other’s needs on both sides, that is where we are going to be able to overcome that issue of the gap between the dollars we need and the dollars that are coming in.
 Hugh: That is the consistency. There is a rhythm to the communication. What is the mechanism you suggest people stay in touch? I think sending an email occasionally is not the answer, is it?
 Danna: First of all, because we are talking about relationships and creating an experience, it all boils down to service. That is what it’s all about. Servicing your donors. I use that as an acronym, and I built seven guidelines using the word “service.”
 The first is S, which is scalable. What I mean by the S in service is deliver an awesome donor experience that scales as your company grows. This involves knowing your donor. How do you make their giving decisions? How do they make their giving decisions, and understanding that? This is where this research comes in. Why would they donate?
 The E is for Essential. What that is, today there is no shortage of tools available for gathering predictive data on sponsors and donors. The problem is getting that data is not enough. You need to understand and know what is happening in the background. What is the chatter going on in the background that really speaks to what is really important? Most of your research is built around the dollars that are given. Most of your primary research is based on dollars given in this event. There is chatter that happens out in the ether. What we call is deep data mining. We need to understand that and monitor that and combine that.
 R is for Relatable. What relatable is is when you are in the fundraising mode, it’s important to listen and understand what motivates your donors. What is important to them?
 V is for Valuable. Intuitively, most people recognize the value of great customer service or donor service, but what are the causes? Causes that deliver value are ones that the sponsors will want to interact with. We want to create engagement. They will become more loyal as long as they can become engaged. This is where we get back to what we were talking about before as long as communicate with them, get them involved, invite them in, hold events that you’re not trying to gather their money but are bringing awareness.
 A perfect example is I have a 30-year-old niece who has Down syndrome. Because of this, I find myself being drawn to organizations that are committed to creating healthy independent living spaces/environments for individuals with Down syndrome. Some of those, what they do is provide a lifestyle where these individuals are creating and giving back to society. Those are the kinds of organizations I get involved with because they are close to my heart. It’s important for us to be able to relate to why the donor is giving.
 I is for Involvement. The donor experience involves a top-down approach. This is key. When the donor gives, they want to know that they are giving to the organization, and that it’s being recognized from the very top, not just from the people who are the representatives. They want to feel as though they are recognized from the top, from the directors of these organizations. Does that make sense?
 C is for Credible. This is a given. Trust is the backbone to credibility. It’s important that you do what you say you are going to do and when you say you are going to do it. Be consistent in your promises. Be transparent and communicative with sponsors. All of this is a given. We have known this all along. This is what comes with credibility.
 Finally, E is for what’s Expected. Deliver what they expect. We talked about that earlier. Did you make them feel valued? Did you treat them like they are important? Did you anticipate their needs for giving? Did you make them? Make it easy for them to engage. This is another thing. If you don’t make it easy for them to donate, they won’t jump through hoops. Did you show them that you cared? Did they feel loved? These are all important. These are the seven steps that I see that need to be built into the structure that will develop that donor relationship that will keep them coming back time and time again.
 Hugh: I remember that model. Give us the acronym again and the words.
 Danna: SERVICE. S is for Scalable. E is for Essential. R is for Relatable. V is for Valuable. I is for Involvement. C is for Credible. E is for Expected.
 Hugh: This sounds like she’s got a page out of your playbook, Russell.
 Russell: She has her own playbook, and it’s wonderful. That is one of the beauties of talking to brilliant people like Danna. I learn more all the time. You can never learn too much. It is creating that experience and value. That is seen to be a dirty word around charities. Nobody would use the word “value,” but you are in the value creation business. That is what it’s all about.
 Danna: Like I said, it doesn’t matter if you are nonprofit, for-profit, whatever. Ultimately we are not here to make money because that is not generally what a nonprofit is all about. A nonprofit is creating an environment that helps others, whatever it is, but it takes money to do that. Therefore, you have to find that money.
 Russell: We get stuck with so many bottom lines because you have funding agencies, foundations, individual donors who come in all shapes and sizes. You have regulators, media, clients. You have all these bottom lines, and everybody has a different thing that is most important to them. It’s juggling all of that is at the center of relationship building. It’s asking questions. It’s talking to people, keeping them informed, asking them what they want to see more of, what they like, what we should keep doing, what we should stop doing. It’s just constant contact, which is the name of the game.
 Danna: Most nonprofits get so wrapped up in the cause that they don’t worry about the business side of things. I wouldn’t say they don’t worry, but they don’t think they need the business side of things because they are so wrapped up in the cause that they think putting the cause out there is going to attract. That is not necessarily the case. You have to treat it just like a business. You have a message you have to put out there. You have research you have to do to find out who is most likely to contribute financially to the growth of this cause, of this nonprofit. Who are the organizations that we can count on as sponsorships to support us when we need it? All of those- There is a science behind it. There is a science behind growing nonprofits as well as for-profits.
 Hugh: Before we switch over to the sponsor track, Russ, he is the one that asks the real hard questions, Danna. Have you got a question or comment for her besides what you have already said?
 Russell: I was thinking about sponsors versus donors but we are getting ready to roll into that. The one thought I did have was with starting a nonprofit or socially responsible business, it’s our baby, and we love it. We birthed it, we throw it over our shoulder, we burp it, and we can really get lost because the important thing is what other people who are impacted by the organization value is not necessarily what I think is valuable. It’s what the people I want to try to serve think is valuable. There are so many different ones; that’s where it gets complicated.
 Danna: It is very complicated. I think Hugh will agree with me: You can’t rely on just one source. You have to integrate the levels. It’s almost like having different revenue streams. Even in the for-profit side, I tell my clients not to rely on just one revenue stream. You don't rely only on funding grants. You don’t rely only on certain things because what you will find is those grants will be yanked, and you won’t have it coming in anymore. You have people to pay, clients that are yours that you promised services, and now you can’t afford to deliver. You have to develop a diversified approach to bringing money into a nonprofit, from the donor side, from the sponsor side, even legacy. Look at legacies. Get people involved enough to where they are so passionate about it that they will leave you mentioned in their wills. Those kinds of things.
 Hugh: Absolutely.
 Russell: What makes it more challenging is it’s important to have those multiple streams, but only as many as you can manage well. It’s the phased and systematic growth with first things first that takes all of the planning and building of the right structure, the strategy so that you don’t get overwhelmed and you grow to all of these different sources. You need as many as you can, but only as you can manage well.
 Danna: You’re right. The other thing to keep in mind though when you are setting up your revenue streams, how you will bring your money in, you also need to be looking at what are your monthly expenses, what is it you need to have every month so that you can plan this? Even in a nonprofit, you have to have a cash flow analysis, a cash flow statement, because you can’t go on a wing and prayer. You still have expenses. You have services you have to deliver. It costs money.
 My son, I love him dearly, and he is extremely intelligent. All his life, he has wanted to live off the land. He does not want to rely on anything. Growing up, I always told him, “Sweetheart, I appreciate that. That’s great. How are you going to get the land? You need money. How are you going to get the seeds to grow your vegetables? You need money.” There is a science to it. You have to plan this stuff.
 Hugh: That is the anchor of this foundation underneath all of this. If you all are ready, let’s pivot over to the sponsor side of things. The donors are making a philanthropic gift. Their return on investment is a return on life that we give people in this sector, ROL. They want to see something happen. You’ve done a very good job of describing staying in touch with them, letting them know what the results are from their money.
 Sponsors are not making donations; they are spending marketing money because they want their brand associated with your brand. There are challenges with sponsorship. Talk about that channel a little bit and how to get top-of-mind with those sponsors and how to stay there.
 Danna: First of all, sponsorship dollars, when someone is sponsoring a nonprofit, they are doing it for a couple of reasons. First, the credibility, the connection to whoever it is they are sponsoring. Secondly, definitely for tax purposes. All of this other stuff. More importantly than anything, they are looking for a direct connection to whoever it is they are sponsoring and that brand that comes with it. The credibility, the recognition that comes with that sponsorship.
 To get those sponsors though comes that data we are talking about, the statistics. Most sponsors want to see that data of what your cause or what your platform has done. There has to be some kind of history there for them to feel good enough to be able to sponsor.
 Hugh: There is a negative brand reputation if your brand isn’t good enough. They want to verify it will give them a positive spin on their brand.
 Danna: As much as they can be connected to any messaging, marketing, whatever is going out, the better. If you have got a nonprofit and you’re developing videos and doing things like that, they want to be involved in that in one way or another as a sponsor.
 Hugh: There is a lot of similarities. Sponsorship is sponsorship. They want to see how many eyeballs, they want to create energy coming back to their business. In addition to what you have with the for-profit sponsorships, there is an affinity. Sponsors come on with something they have a passion for, or they want to see what happens or there is a philanthropic piece to the sponsorship. It’s still their marketing dollars, but they have an emotional piece. There is some rules around sponsorship, like we can’t do a direct call to action for a nonprofit. There is that IRS category of unrelated business income that then becomes taxable. There is a different protocol on the back end, but we are still representing the brand and the brand value and the brand promise and the brand identity to the sponsor. Continue. This is helpful.
 Danna: One of the other things that most nonprofits don’t realize is it’s most known for the for-profits sponsoring nonprofits. The nonprofits are looking for the for-profits to bring money in. What they are not taking into consideration is they can bring going out. For instance, with our funding conference that you’re a sponsor of, Hugh, SynerVision Leadership, in order for me and my company to be able to go out for community dollars, I needed a nonprofit arm. That is where that value can come in with a nonprofit, and there is another income stream that can come in by doing that, by partnering synergistically, strategically partnering.
 Hugh: We have some relations in how the money flows, but that is why you have good accountants to help you set up those systems. Money is a value exchange. We are not really good at describing the value. I see a lot of charities get sponsors, and they put up a banner, put their name in the program, and mention them. There is not a lot of value received for a sponsor, and there is no checking expectations, how this fits into your overall marketing plan. Give us more ideas as to how we can create that lasting relationship with sponsors.
 Danna: That is where we go right back to what we are talking about on the donor side. We need to understand what their expectations are. What do they expect out of this sponsorship? Are they looking to participate? Are they looking to just have their brand brought in? We have to look at what their expectations are. What are their needs? They may have specific needs they are looking at with their sponsorship. Are they looking to bring into an environment that may need their services, either legally or financially or whatever? They may be sponsoring because it will introduce them to a different market that they could bring in as clients. We have to look at, and we have to understand what their expectations are in order for them to keep coming back.
 Hugh: Russ, I bet you are liking that one.
 Russell: It’s true. What we are talking about here is a value for value exchange. With the nonprofit, money is very important, but it’s not everything. It’s the reason that the nonprofit is set up for. What is that value you can exchange? What is the sponsor looking for? Do you have a synergy where your values are concerned? Are you going to expose them to new customers? This is a metric we are talking about. How much media exposure are they going to get? We are talking about good will. We are talking about more bang for the buck. If they run out of sponsorship money, if they like what you’ve got, they will dip into some marketing dollars because you could actually get them a lot more bang for their buck. You have to understand as you approach a sponsor if you can do that. There is an art to it. You have to have a conversation with them. Is it possible that you can have a multi-year agreement? If you are going to go in and talk to them, you might as swell swing for the fence instead of having a one and done. Try to build that relationship and see what makes sense. Put some markers in there so that you can grow it. You want to keep these folks coming back. There is a difference.
 A lot of people mistake sponsorship for donations. They will go out and talk to businesses. We have this event, we’d like some auction items and these types of things. You have donations on one hand and sponsorship on the other. A donation is something they just give you. If they are looking for a value-for-value exchange in a pure sponsorship, they will look at who else has sponsored you. One question they will have in their minds is: Let’s take Apple and Google. You go to Apple and say, “I have this event.” It could be an event where you try to bring in people, and you want Apple to be a sponsor. One question they are going to have is if we don’t do this, will Amazon do it, or Microsoft, or Google? They may want some exclusivity. You never know. That would be a darn good problem to have.
 Danna: Yes, it would. Definitely it would. But you are right. Understanding what their expectations are, they get hit by nonprofits all the time. They have to weigh the value that is coming out of their sponsorship dollars if they are going to be giving away. How will that benefit me? Am I going to be fighting against competition? Am I going to be fighting against my morals, my culture? Does it match? Us as a nonprofit have to be looking at that before we even approach them because those are the questions they are going to ask. If we are not prepared to answer them ,chances are we will lose them.
 Russell: From what I have learned from other people who have been successful at getting sponsorships, some of what they do is approach people. They do their homework, a lot of research, and they try to approach the right people. They ask questions. People approach grant funders in this same manner. Building the relationships, looking at who might be a fit, and actually reviewing their website, reviewing whatever medium/material you have available, and calling a program officer, calling the appropriate person at the headquarters to ask them for a short informational interview. Do your homework so that you are not asking them stuff that is readily available. That will put a dent in your credibility off the bat. You ask questions to find out what is not between the lines. What is not written to get a feel for what sort of stuff they look for, what they are proud of, what did you do that worked, and ask what events they sponsored before. If it looks like you can deliver something that might be important to them, ask them if you can send them a proposal. You’re not sending something blind. Doing that with private foundations saves you a lot of time, especially if you don’t have a lot of resources or grant writers to go do it. Having those conversations, they remember you. You might have to make some adjustments in your language. You don’t want to shift who you are and what you’re about and what you’re doing, but you may need to adjust the language to put it in the proposal to persuade them to fund you.
 Danna: One thing I have run into in the past if you are starting a new nonprofit or are in the early stages, oftentimes you will find that some nonprofits will try to beef things up in their proposals over and above what they are. It needs to be understood that you are going to be vetted. It’s important that you are credible and transparent in everything that you do. Otherwise, you’re going to lose those sponsorships, those donors, anything that you are going after. This is what a lot of nonprofits run into sometimes; they are not able to back up, whether with social proof or data, they are not able to back up what they are all about. I have started a nonprofit, and that’s it. This is where you run into issues sometimes when you are trying to raise money for a nonprofit. It’s tough. Just like with a for-profit business. In the beginning, you are doing it out of pocket. You are self-funding quite a bit.
 Hugh: You want to stop that though. What you are hitting around is that we need to be professionals at running the organization.
 Danna: Like a business.
 Hugh: A lot of cause-based charities, people have expertise or passion about the cause and zero ability to run a business. I encourage those people to get an admin or an executive director. What I have started suggesting that organizations do is create a position called a funds strategist. They look at your road map, your strategic plan, your solution map that says where you are going to be and how you are going to get there. Then we have targeted budget items for those one or two years out.
 Danna: This is where a cash flow statement comes in. A cash flow statement, when you think about it, is you are breaking down your revenue streams two years, three years. What you are doing is breaking it down on a monthly basis so that you know what your goals are to meet your expenses.
 Hugh: We don’t do that. What we do sometimes is a cash flow analysis, which is the rearview mirror. What we need is the cash flow forecast, the headlights. We don’t think about that a lot. We get this lump of money. We raised some money at an event. What you are talking about is we talk about when it’s going to run out. When we are making presentations, we want to talk about use of funds, what the impact is going to be. We measure that. If you’re good at it, and Russell talked about the value exchange, we are going to attract more money if we are really good at attracting the first money. There is a skill in learning how to make the presentations and attract the money. We don’t give equal time to that. It’s like we build a car. We build this great thing, and we fill the seats with our team members, but we don’t learn to drive the car and we haven’t put the gas in it, which is the money.
 Danna: The other thing to keep in mind, especially on the cash flow side, is the reason we deal with it is a lot of nonprofits depend on donors. They get donor promises. Those promises don’t come in right away. It’s important to understand on a cash flow statement those donor promises are not going to pay the bills until those checks come in. That is where I talk about let’s make it easy for them to donate as opposed to making a promise, and then we have to keep chasing them for the dollars. Let’s make the process easier until we get those donation dollars or sponsorship dollars in.
 Hugh: When they do a pledge week at NPR, they say, “Give us your card, and you can do a recurring donation.” You will give every month. They go for the monthly recurring smaller donations rather than bigger lump sums.
 Danna: I think that’s probably better in a way. You know what’s coming in every single month.
 Hugh: It doesn’t mean we ignore them. We may need to create the program you’re talking about of staying in touch. A funds strategist will create funding programs to support the strategic plan, your targets and budgets for each state of your development, and then your cash flow statement projects how long the money that you raise is going to last. You will run dry if you don’t have that recurring revenue.
 Sponsors are unique. We will do a whole show on sponsors here soon. It’s a very unique pathway. You talked about multiple streams of revenue. There are eight, not counting real estate. Donors and sponsors are right at the top. Those are dependable, regular. Typically, grants are for special purposes. If you do a good job with a sponsor, you have asked what they want, and you create results for them, then there is no reason for them to stop. This service piece that you are talking about is actually essential for regular recurring revenue, isn’t it?
 Danna: When you think about the number of nonprofits fighting for the same sponsors, it’s not as if they don’t have enough organizations wanting their sponsorship dollars. How are you going to keep yourself at top of mind as far as these sponsors are concerned? This is where meeting their expectations and understanding that is how you are going to keep them with you. They are going to turn around and convince others to come in as sponsors. That is what the sponsorship service, the relationship you are developing, that is what the end goal is: keep them in the pipeline and have them turn into your own advocates on the back end to create more sponsors for you.
 Hugh: That is so well-put. Do you have any questions or comments for Danna, Russell?
 Russell: One of the things that I would ask or that people talk about in the question I get—I don’t always have a good answer for it. Very new nonprofits, what is the best way for them to approach obtaining sponsorship? On what scale should they aim for?
 Hugh: Told you he had the hard questions.
 Danna: I have dealt with a few very early nonprofits as far as that is concerned. Oh goodness. What is the best approach? Relationships by far. You have to have those relationships. You can’t just go in and say, “Look, I have started a nonprofit. This is it. Are you willing to donate or sponsor me?” Those relationships are critical.
 The other thing is really look at what your needs are from the sponsors. Match up those sponsors first before you approach them. Start to develop those relationships. If you need media, printing, marketing, all of that, look at what your needs are because if you are very early-on and you try going to an Amazon, chances are you won’t get it. Go with your local companies. Go with the people that network with you. Go out there and network. Do some events, some free events, like walk-a-thons or something to that effect where you can get people involved and bring donations in that way. Through that, then the sponsors are going to be more apt to donate some dollars because they are branding themselves.
 Hugh: Wow. That is a lot of good stuff, Danna. You have hit on some really important topics today. Really rich content. What do you want to leave people with? A tip, a thought, a challenge? What do you want to leave people with?
 Danna: The biggest challenge I want to leave people with is one of the biggest challenges I fight all the time with my clients: think before you jump. Think before you jump. Think about the process. Think about the sequence. Think about the strategy behind what you are doing before you jump. When you are dealing with limited dollars, you don’t have dollars to waste. You want to make sure that those dollars go as far and as efficiently as you can make them go. The only way you will do that is to think about what you are spending those dollars on.
 Hugh: Very sage advice. Russell, thanks for joining us. Danna, thank you for the wonderful, useful content today.
 Danna: You’re welcome. Thank you. Nice talking to you again, Russell.
 Russell: Always a pleasure. Keep on keepin’ on.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7e392cf2-b329-11eb-9f0f-87e6876d8a65/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Danna Olivo</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Danna Olivo is a Business Growth Sequencing Strategist and CEO of MarketAtomy, LLC. Her passion is working with small first stage entrepreneurs to ensure that they start out on the right foot and stay on the path to financial freedom. Known as the Business Birthing Specialist, Danna understands the intricacies involved in starting and running a successful business. Her efforts extend beyond the initial strategic planning process on into the implementation and monitoring phase. As an intricate component ingrained into her client’s business structure, she works diligently to keep her client’s accountable and on track to fulfilling their success goals.
 A graduate of the University of Central Florida’s College of Business, Danna holds degrees in both Marketing and Management Information Systems (MIS). She brings more than 35 years of strategic planning experience in business, marketing and business development both nationally and internationally.
 Danna is not only a professional business growth strategist but has worked as an International Strategist within the country of Brazil, is a public speaker and #1 Best Selling Author on Amazon with “Success From The Heart” and “Journey To The Stage.” Her newest book “MarketAtomy: What To Expect When Expecting A Business” is now available through Amazon on Kindle.
 What You will learn in this session:
  What do Sponsors/Donors Expect
 How to Build an Infrastructure to support the Donor Experience
 The 7 steps for creating a lasting Donor Experience
   
 Here's the Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Our guest today is Danna Olivo. First day with the new teeth. Danna and I have been colleagues for a while, and I have grown to appreciate her work more each time I hear her present. We are talking about sponsors and donors and how to really keep that relationship at the highest level because it’s good for them, it’s good for us. We just need to know how to do the talking and create a system around that. I am not going to waste any more time. I like for guests to introduce themselves, so tell us a wee bit, a couple of minutes, about your background and what prepared you for being able to do this powerful work on this topic. Before you finish, talk about why you chose this. What is your passion for this?
 Danna Olivo: Oh goodness. As Hugh said, my name is Danna Olivo. I like to call myself the Business Birthing Specialist. The reason that I go by that title is because I like working with early-stage and emerging entrepreneurs, whether they are nonprofit or for-profit. They are still in that birthing stage of their company. I am a business growth strategist at heart. That is backed up with more than 40 years in marketing, business development, and sales. That is where we get around to the experience that we are talking about: creating donor and sponsor experience. I work with for-profits and nonprofits to basically teach them how to build an infrastructure that attracts customers to their door and ultimately create an experience where they come out as advocates on the back end. That is where my background is.
 Hugh: You have taught at my live leadership empowerment symposium events. You and I are cooking up an event. We will do that again in Florida. We come to Florida on a regular basis. We are going to tag onto it a funding conference. Some of the stuff we are talking about will specifically be talking about fund sourcing and activation and maintenance for those running charities. It could be a church, synagogue, a membership organization, a cause-based charity. Any people doing, and really these are social entrepreneurs. That is still your sweet spot.
 Danna: Whether you are dealing with for-profit companies, nonprofit companies, churches, the thing to keep in mind is we are still dealing with a business. We are still dealing with entrepreneurs. We have to also keep in mind we are still dealing with customers. Whether they be sponsors or donors or customers or parishioners, they are customers. We have to keep that mindset when we are thinking about it.
 Hugh: You are so spot-on. We tend to think things are going to happen because we have a charitable cause. Not really. We are not really good at defining why it’s important and the impact of our work. We don’t really attract the money we deserve to attract because we are doing good work. We have a lot of different themes that we deal with in this episode. This podcast has been going on for three years. We have interviewed specialists like you who have brought some really good content. You are in good company as are they today.
 Danna, let’s set the stage a little bit. What is your passion for helping early-stage entrepreneurs get their head around this really important topic of donor/sponsorship?
 Danna: My passion stems from failures in the past. That is where a lot of my passion comes from. The mistakes learned and wanting to teach others how to avoid those mistakes. Working with small businesses, whether nonprofit or for-profit, but we are going to focus on nonprofit. When you start a business, a nonprofit business, it is cause-based generally. Cause-based businesses are emotional. You are tapping into the emotion. That is what you’re trying to do. Well, therefore, going after those customers, those sponsors and donors, you need to match that emotion to those sponsors and donors in order to get them to buy into your cause, right? Where my purpose is is teaching early-stage entrepreneurs there is a sequence to this. There is a sequence behind the research that has to go in to target those individuals that are more likely to emotionally buy into your cause, but also to understand what that messaging is that needs to be developed in order to reach those people. Not only on the sponsor/donor side, but what about on the other side? The people who are coming in that need your services, need your social platform. They need what you are providing through your platform.
 Hugh: In business, whether it is a nonprofit, you’re right. We need to install sound business practices in the charities or religious institutions we run. It is a business with more rules than a for-profit business. We are regulated with good reason. The people can give us money and write it off on their taxes for good reason, or sponsors can give us marketing money because we create value for everyone. There is a little different nuance for sponsors and donors.
 Let’s take the donor piece first. We ask people to donate and support a cause. This is what’s going to happen. Then they fall off by the wayside and they don’t donate again, or they don’t tell other people. What is the biggest problem you see, the gap that hasn’t been filled with people running an organization and managing these donor relations?
 Danna: Their structure. The structure that they put in place. It’s one thing to get those donors, to get those sponsors to the door. But if you cannot create that experience that I talk about, which involves the structure of the organization, then you are not going to be able to carry them through and create that experience that will turn them into advocates afterwards. Ultimately, that is what we want to do. We want to create our own sales team or our own promotional team on the back end because of the experiences that they had while working with our program.
 Hugh: Okay. I get that. That is theory. Turn it into practice. What does that structure look like? If somebody is listening to this and goes, “Wow, I need to maintain this relationship, but I don’t know where to start.” What does that structure look like?
 Danna: Oh goodness. You can start so many different places. First of all, you have to put yourself in the mindset of the sponsor or the donor. What are they looking for? What are their expectations? They are expecting to get out of this relationship that they are with you on. On the sponsor side, are there expectations to really create a brand out there in the marketplace by helping you in creating more of a brand recognition on the social side? On the donor side, are they really- Do they want to feel empowered by helping something they are really emotional about? What is it that they are expecting? Most of the time, what you are going to be looking at is they want to be appreciated. If they are not shown appreciation, or they want to see transparency, and especially on the nonprofit side because if they don’t feel as though their money is being utilized the way it should be utilized, and as promised, chances are you won’t get them back again. That’s what we want. We want these donors and sponsors to come back again and again, especially when we have to depend on federal dollars as well. Those federal dollars can be pulled at any time.
 Hugh: It’s really hard to get donors. We are competing with all these other charities out there. We want to have a process of maintaining that relationship. We don’t think about the donors until it’s time to donate again, and then we send a panicked letter saying, “We need your donation for next year,” but we haven’t talked to them all year.
 Danna: That is it. That is what I am talking about. They want to feel as though they are appreciated. They want and expect you to keep them in the loop. How are their dollars doing? What’s happening? Show them the results. Give them the statistics.
 Hugh: Say that again.
 Danna: You need to consistently be communicating with them. You need to show them what their dollars are doing as far as your cause. What are those statistics? How many of those lives are you affecting? How many people are you helping with the dollars they are giving you?
 Hugh: Why are those important?
 Danna: First of all, consider the fact that they are giving because they are passionate about their giving. They want to make sure that you are using their money to make a difference. That is one reason. They are passionate. This is their way of contributing. If you are not being transparent about it, they will go somewhere else that is doing the same thing in hopes they will be doing better.
 Hugh: I think it’s probably gratifying for a donor to see I gave this money, and you say, “This is what we were able to do with your money.”
 Danna: A perfect example is my husband and I like contributing to the Smile Organization, primarily because we had relatives in the past that have had cleft lips. There is an organization out there that helped those who have deformed lips, cleft lips, that create these smiles. These are children. It really means a lot to us when we see one of these children being able to smile again and feeling good about what has happened after one of these surgeries. These surgeries don’t cost a lot in these foreign countries.
 Hugh: That is such a great example. Several times in my life, I ran with the Leukemia/Lymphoma Society and pledged to raise a few thousand for leukemia and lymphoma research. At the race, I was connected to a particular patient with a wristband. It had their name, age, and condition on it. I was running for one person, but also for others, and I felt really purposed. Going back to the people who donated for me to run, they were betting on whether I would finish or not I’m sure, but they donated that few thousand and I did the running. We’ve been joined by the good-looking Russell Dennis in Denver, Colorado, and he just snuck in. He has experience in the funding seat for 11 years. Is that right, Russ?
 Russell Dennis: It is good to see you, Danna and Hugh.
 Danna: Haven’t seen you since the last time we were on together.
 Russell: That’s been far too long. With donors, one thing I find with people is that there is something magic about face-to-face contact. If you can have some non-ask events where you are not asking for money, just bringing them in to meet some of the people who are benefiting from your dollars, have them tour your facility, talk to other people, show them the exciting things their money is doing, and keeping them in the loop. Some people are going to want to be contacted more than others. It’s having a system to keep track of people and keep those connections. It is really something that if you can, you should have a single person try to keep the flow going. A director will do a lot of the face to face, but you want somebody to keep that communication loop open.
 Danna: That’s what I’m saying. You need to communicate with them. Involve them in the process, show them how their dollars are working, and help them be involved in it, as far as that’s concerned. First of all, the donors aren’t mind-readers. If you are not communicating with them, they are going to assume, and you don’t want them assuming. You want them to feel comfortable with where their dollars are being spent, and that they are making a difference. Am I right, Russell?
 Russell: Spot on. At least, you can survey. It is just asking how are we doing, what would you like to see more of. They won’t know what they want to see more of if they don’t know what you’re doing. Keeping them in the loop is important. Surveying them-
 Danna: Serving on one of the boards of a local nonprofit here, one of the biggest things that nonprofits do run into is the budget cuts with federal dollars. I was sitting in on the board of Hope and Help, which is HIV/AIDS awareness. One of the biggest struggles we had was the fact that the other agencies like ours were fighting for these federal dollars. We didn’t really have in place any kind of public in-flow, or what we did have was very little. All we had was one major annual event that we did. That event only happened once a year. The dollars that we have to spend on expenses happen every month. That is where these sponsored dollars and donor dollars come in. Why should we have to rely only on federal money, which constantly is being cut back, and we never know we are going to have it year to year because there are other agencies fighting for it? How do we build those relationships with donors that we can count on every year? That is where we are going with this. Through transparency and by creating that donor experience that we can count on every year because we are meeting each other’s needs on both sides, that is where we are going to be able to overcome that issue of the gap between the dollars we need and the dollars that are coming in.
 Hugh: That is the consistency. There is a rhythm to the communication. What is the mechanism you suggest people stay in touch? I think sending an email occasionally is not the answer, is it?
 Danna: First of all, because we are talking about relationships and creating an experience, it all boils down to service. That is what it’s all about. Servicing your donors. I use that as an acronym, and I built seven guidelines using the word “service.”
 The first is S, which is scalable. What I mean by the S in service is deliver an awesome donor experience that scales as your company grows. This involves knowing your donor. How do you make their giving decisions? How do they make their giving decisions, and understanding that? This is where this research comes in. Why would they donate?
 The E is for Essential. What that is, today there is no shortage of tools available for gathering predictive data on sponsors and donors. The problem is getting that data is not enough. You need to understand and know what is happening in the background. What is the chatter going on in the background that really speaks to what is really important? Most of your research is built around the dollars that are given. Most of your primary research is based on dollars given in this event. There is chatter that happens out in the ether. What we call is deep data mining. We need to understand that and monitor that and combine that.
 R is for Relatable. What relatable is is when you are in the fundraising mode, it’s important to listen and understand what motivates your donors. What is important to them?
 V is for Valuable. Intuitively, most people recognize the value of great customer service or donor service, but what are the causes? Causes that deliver value are ones that the sponsors will want to interact with. We want to create engagement. They will become more loyal as long as they can become engaged. This is where we get back to what we were talking about before as long as communicate with them, get them involved, invite them in, hold events that you’re not trying to gather their money but are bringing awareness.
 A perfect example is I have a 30-year-old niece who has Down syndrome. Because of this, I find myself being drawn to organizations that are committed to creating healthy independent living spaces/environments for individuals with Down syndrome. Some of those, what they do is provide a lifestyle where these individuals are creating and giving back to society. Those are the kinds of organizations I get involved with because they are close to my heart. It’s important for us to be able to relate to why the donor is giving.
 I is for Involvement. The donor experience involves a top-down approach. This is key. When the donor gives, they want to know that they are giving to the organization, and that it’s being recognized from the very top, not just from the people who are the representatives. They want to feel as though they are recognized from the top, from the directors of these organizations. Does that make sense?
 C is for Credible. This is a given. Trust is the backbone to credibility. It’s important that you do what you say you are going to do and when you say you are going to do it. Be consistent in your promises. Be transparent and communicative with sponsors. All of this is a given. We have known this all along. This is what comes with credibility.
 Finally, E is for what’s Expected. Deliver what they expect. We talked about that earlier. Did you make them feel valued? Did you treat them like they are important? Did you anticipate their needs for giving? Did you make them? Make it easy for them to engage. This is another thing. If you don’t make it easy for them to donate, they won’t jump through hoops. Did you show them that you cared? Did they feel loved? These are all important. These are the seven steps that I see that need to be built into the structure that will develop that donor relationship that will keep them coming back time and time again.
 Hugh: I remember that model. Give us the acronym again and the words.
 Danna: SERVICE. S is for Scalable. E is for Essential. R is for Relatable. V is for Valuable. I is for Involvement. C is for Credible. E is for Expected.
 Hugh: This sounds like she’s got a page out of your playbook, Russell.
 Russell: She has her own playbook, and it’s wonderful. That is one of the beauties of talking to brilliant people like Danna. I learn more all the time. You can never learn too much. It is creating that experience and value. That is seen to be a dirty word around charities. Nobody would use the word “value,” but you are in the value creation business. That is what it’s all about.
 Danna: Like I said, it doesn’t matter if you are nonprofit, for-profit, whatever. Ultimately we are not here to make money because that is not generally what a nonprofit is all about. A nonprofit is creating an environment that helps others, whatever it is, but it takes money to do that. Therefore, you have to find that money.
 Russell: We get stuck with so many bottom lines because you have funding agencies, foundations, individual donors who come in all shapes and sizes. You have regulators, media, clients. You have all these bottom lines, and everybody has a different thing that is most important to them. It’s juggling all of that is at the center of relationship building. It’s asking questions. It’s talking to people, keeping them informed, asking them what they want to see more of, what they like, what we should keep doing, what we should stop doing. It’s just constant contact, which is the name of the game.
 Danna: Most nonprofits get so wrapped up in the cause that they don’t worry about the business side of things. I wouldn’t say they don’t worry, but they don’t think they need the business side of things because they are so wrapped up in the cause that they think putting the cause out there is going to attract. That is not necessarily the case. You have to treat it just like a business. You have a message you have to put out there. You have research you have to do to find out who is most likely to contribute financially to the growth of this cause, of this nonprofit. Who are the organizations that we can count on as sponsorships to support us when we need it? All of those- There is a science behind it. There is a science behind growing nonprofits as well as for-profits.
 Hugh: Before we switch over to the sponsor track, Russ, he is the one that asks the real hard questions, Danna. Have you got a question or comment for her besides what you have already said?
 Russell: I was thinking about sponsors versus donors but we are getting ready to roll into that. The one thought I did have was with starting a nonprofit or socially responsible business, it’s our baby, and we love it. We birthed it, we throw it over our shoulder, we burp it, and we can really get lost because the important thing is what other people who are impacted by the organization value is not necessarily what I think is valuable. It’s what the people I want to try to serve think is valuable. There are so many different ones; that’s where it gets complicated.
 Danna: It is very complicated. I think Hugh will agree with me: You can’t rely on just one source. You have to integrate the levels. It’s almost like having different revenue streams. Even in the for-profit side, I tell my clients not to rely on just one revenue stream. You don't rely only on funding grants. You don’t rely only on certain things because what you will find is those grants will be yanked, and you won’t have it coming in anymore. You have people to pay, clients that are yours that you promised services, and now you can’t afford to deliver. You have to develop a diversified approach to bringing money into a nonprofit, from the donor side, from the sponsor side, even legacy. Look at legacies. Get people involved enough to where they are so passionate about it that they will leave you mentioned in their wills. Those kinds of things.
 Hugh: Absolutely.
 Russell: What makes it more challenging is it’s important to have those multiple streams, but only as many as you can manage well. It’s the phased and systematic growth with first things first that takes all of the planning and building of the right structure, the strategy so that you don’t get overwhelmed and you grow to all of these different sources. You need as many as you can, but only as you can manage well.
 Danna: You’re right. The other thing to keep in mind though when you are setting up your revenue streams, how you will bring your money in, you also need to be looking at what are your monthly expenses, what is it you need to have every month so that you can plan this? Even in a nonprofit, you have to have a cash flow analysis, a cash flow statement, because you can’t go on a wing and prayer. You still have expenses. You have services you have to deliver. It costs money.
 My son, I love him dearly, and he is extremely intelligent. All his life, he has wanted to live off the land. He does not want to rely on anything. Growing up, I always told him, “Sweetheart, I appreciate that. That’s great. How are you going to get the land? You need money. How are you going to get the seeds to grow your vegetables? You need money.” There is a science to it. You have to plan this stuff.
 Hugh: That is the anchor of this foundation underneath all of this. If you all are ready, let’s pivot over to the sponsor side of things. The donors are making a philanthropic gift. Their return on investment is a return on life that we give people in this sector, ROL. They want to see something happen. You’ve done a very good job of describing staying in touch with them, letting them know what the results are from their money.
 Sponsors are not making donations; they are spending marketing money because they want their brand associated with your brand. There are challenges with sponsorship. Talk about that channel a little bit and how to get top-of-mind with those sponsors and how to stay there.
 Danna: First of all, sponsorship dollars, when someone is sponsoring a nonprofit, they are doing it for a couple of reasons. First, the credibility, the connection to whoever it is they are sponsoring. Secondly, definitely for tax purposes. All of this other stuff. More importantly than anything, they are looking for a direct connection to whoever it is they are sponsoring and that brand that comes with it. The credibility, the recognition that comes with that sponsorship.
 To get those sponsors though comes that data we are talking about, the statistics. Most sponsors want to see that data of what your cause or what your platform has done. There has to be some kind of history there for them to feel good enough to be able to sponsor.
 Hugh: There is a negative brand reputation if your brand isn’t good enough. They want to verify it will give them a positive spin on their brand.
 Danna: As much as they can be connected to any messaging, marketing, whatever is going out, the better. If you have got a nonprofit and you’re developing videos and doing things like that, they want to be involved in that in one way or another as a sponsor.
 Hugh: There is a lot of similarities. Sponsorship is sponsorship. They want to see how many eyeballs, they want to create energy coming back to their business. In addition to what you have with the for-profit sponsorships, there is an affinity. Sponsors come on with something they have a passion for, or they want to see what happens or there is a philanthropic piece to the sponsorship. It’s still their marketing dollars, but they have an emotional piece. There is some rules around sponsorship, like we can’t do a direct call to action for a nonprofit. There is that IRS category of unrelated business income that then becomes taxable. There is a different protocol on the back end, but we are still representing the brand and the brand value and the brand promise and the brand identity to the sponsor. Continue. This is helpful.
 Danna: One of the other things that most nonprofits don’t realize is it’s most known for the for-profits sponsoring nonprofits. The nonprofits are looking for the for-profits to bring money in. What they are not taking into consideration is they can bring going out. For instance, with our funding conference that you’re a sponsor of, Hugh, SynerVision Leadership, in order for me and my company to be able to go out for community dollars, I needed a nonprofit arm. That is where that value can come in with a nonprofit, and there is another income stream that can come in by doing that, by partnering synergistically, strategically partnering.
 Hugh: We have some relations in how the money flows, but that is why you have good accountants to help you set up those systems. Money is a value exchange. We are not really good at describing the value. I see a lot of charities get sponsors, and they put up a banner, put their name in the program, and mention them. There is not a lot of value received for a sponsor, and there is no checking expectations, how this fits into your overall marketing plan. Give us more ideas as to how we can create that lasting relationship with sponsors.
 Danna: That is where we go right back to what we are talking about on the donor side. We need to understand what their expectations are. What do they expect out of this sponsorship? Are they looking to participate? Are they looking to just have their brand brought in? We have to look at what their expectations are. What are their needs? They may have specific needs they are looking at with their sponsorship. Are they looking to bring into an environment that may need their services, either legally or financially or whatever? They may be sponsoring because it will introduce them to a different market that they could bring in as clients. We have to look at, and we have to understand what their expectations are in order for them to keep coming back.
 Hugh: Russ, I bet you are liking that one.
 Russell: It’s true. What we are talking about here is a value for value exchange. With the nonprofit, money is very important, but it’s not everything. It’s the reason that the nonprofit is set up for. What is that value you can exchange? What is the sponsor looking for? Do you have a synergy where your values are concerned? Are you going to expose them to new customers? This is a metric we are talking about. How much media exposure are they going to get? We are talking about good will. We are talking about more bang for the buck. If they run out of sponsorship money, if they like what you’ve got, they will dip into some marketing dollars because you could actually get them a lot more bang for their buck. You have to understand as you approach a sponsor if you can do that. There is an art to it. You have to have a conversation with them. Is it possible that you can have a multi-year agreement? If you are going to go in and talk to them, you might as swell swing for the fence instead of having a one and done. Try to build that relationship and see what makes sense. Put some markers in there so that you can grow it. You want to keep these folks coming back. There is a difference.
 A lot of people mistake sponsorship for donations. They will go out and talk to businesses. We have this event, we’d like some auction items and these types of things. You have donations on one hand and sponsorship on the other. A donation is something they just give you. If they are looking for a value-for-value exchange in a pure sponsorship, they will look at who else has sponsored you. One question they will have in their minds is: Let’s take Apple and Google. You go to Apple and say, “I have this event.” It could be an event where you try to bring in people, and you want Apple to be a sponsor. One question they are going to have is if we don’t do this, will Amazon do it, or Microsoft, or Google? They may want some exclusivity. You never know. That would be a darn good problem to have.
 Danna: Yes, it would. Definitely it would. But you are right. Understanding what their expectations are, they get hit by nonprofits all the time. They have to weigh the value that is coming out of their sponsorship dollars if they are going to be giving away. How will that benefit me? Am I going to be fighting against competition? Am I going to be fighting against my morals, my culture? Does it match? Us as a nonprofit have to be looking at that before we even approach them because those are the questions they are going to ask. If we are not prepared to answer them ,chances are we will lose them.
 Russell: From what I have learned from other people who have been successful at getting sponsorships, some of what they do is approach people. They do their homework, a lot of research, and they try to approach the right people. They ask questions. People approach grant funders in this same manner. Building the relationships, looking at who might be a fit, and actually reviewing their website, reviewing whatever medium/material you have available, and calling a program officer, calling the appropriate person at the headquarters to ask them for a short informational interview. Do your homework so that you are not asking them stuff that is readily available. That will put a dent in your credibility off the bat. You ask questions to find out what is not between the lines. What is not written to get a feel for what sort of stuff they look for, what they are proud of, what did you do that worked, and ask what events they sponsored before. If it looks like you can deliver something that might be important to them, ask them if you can send them a proposal. You’re not sending something blind. Doing that with private foundations saves you a lot of time, especially if you don’t have a lot of resources or grant writers to go do it. Having those conversations, they remember you. You might have to make some adjustments in your language. You don’t want to shift who you are and what you’re about and what you’re doing, but you may need to adjust the language to put it in the proposal to persuade them to fund you.
 Danna: One thing I have run into in the past if you are starting a new nonprofit or are in the early stages, oftentimes you will find that some nonprofits will try to beef things up in their proposals over and above what they are. It needs to be understood that you are going to be vetted. It’s important that you are credible and transparent in everything that you do. Otherwise, you’re going to lose those sponsorships, those donors, anything that you are going after. This is what a lot of nonprofits run into sometimes; they are not able to back up, whether with social proof or data, they are not able to back up what they are all about. I have started a nonprofit, and that’s it. This is where you run into issues sometimes when you are trying to raise money for a nonprofit. It’s tough. Just like with a for-profit business. In the beginning, you are doing it out of pocket. You are self-funding quite a bit.
 Hugh: You want to stop that though. What you are hitting around is that we need to be professionals at running the organization.
 Danna: Like a business.
 Hugh: A lot of cause-based charities, people have expertise or passion about the cause and zero ability to run a business. I encourage those people to get an admin or an executive director. What I have started suggesting that organizations do is create a position called a funds strategist. They look at your road map, your strategic plan, your solution map that says where you are going to be and how you are going to get there. Then we have targeted budget items for those one or two years out.
 Danna: This is where a cash flow statement comes in. A cash flow statement, when you think about it, is you are breaking down your revenue streams two years, three years. What you are doing is breaking it down on a monthly basis so that you know what your goals are to meet your expenses.
 Hugh: We don’t do that. What we do sometimes is a cash flow analysis, which is the rearview mirror. What we need is the cash flow forecast, the headlights. We don’t think about that a lot. We get this lump of money. We raised some money at an event. What you are talking about is we talk about when it’s going to run out. When we are making presentations, we want to talk about use of funds, what the impact is going to be. We measure that. If you’re good at it, and Russell talked about the value exchange, we are going to attract more money if we are really good at attracting the first money. There is a skill in learning how to make the presentations and attract the money. We don’t give equal time to that. It’s like we build a car. We build this great thing, and we fill the seats with our team members, but we don’t learn to drive the car and we haven’t put the gas in it, which is the money.
 Danna: The other thing to keep in mind, especially on the cash flow side, is the reason we deal with it is a lot of nonprofits depend on donors. They get donor promises. Those promises don’t come in right away. It’s important to understand on a cash flow statement those donor promises are not going to pay the bills until those checks come in. That is where I talk about let’s make it easy for them to donate as opposed to making a promise, and then we have to keep chasing them for the dollars. Let’s make the process easier until we get those donation dollars or sponsorship dollars in.
 Hugh: When they do a pledge week at NPR, they say, “Give us your card, and you can do a recurring donation.” You will give every month. They go for the monthly recurring smaller donations rather than bigger lump sums.
 Danna: I think that’s probably better in a way. You know what’s coming in every single month.
 Hugh: It doesn’t mean we ignore them. We may need to create the program you’re talking about of staying in touch. A funds strategist will create funding programs to support the strategic plan, your targets and budgets for each state of your development, and then your cash flow statement projects how long the money that you raise is going to last. You will run dry if you don’t have that recurring revenue.
 Sponsors are unique. We will do a whole show on sponsors here soon. It’s a very unique pathway. You talked about multiple streams of revenue. There are eight, not counting real estate. Donors and sponsors are right at the top. Those are dependable, regular. Typically, grants are for special purposes. If you do a good job with a sponsor, you have asked what they want, and you create results for them, then there is no reason for them to stop. This service piece that you are talking about is actually essential for regular recurring revenue, isn’t it?
 Danna: When you think about the number of nonprofits fighting for the same sponsors, it’s not as if they don’t have enough organizations wanting their sponsorship dollars. How are you going to keep yourself at top of mind as far as these sponsors are concerned? This is where meeting their expectations and understanding that is how you are going to keep them with you. They are going to turn around and convince others to come in as sponsors. That is what the sponsorship service, the relationship you are developing, that is what the end goal is: keep them in the pipeline and have them turn into your own advocates on the back end to create more sponsors for you.
 Hugh: That is so well-put. Do you have any questions or comments for Danna, Russell?
 Russell: One of the things that I would ask or that people talk about in the question I get—I don’t always have a good answer for it. Very new nonprofits, what is the best way for them to approach obtaining sponsorship? On what scale should they aim for?
 Hugh: Told you he had the hard questions.
 Danna: I have dealt with a few very early nonprofits as far as that is concerned. Oh goodness. What is the best approach? Relationships by far. You have to have those relationships. You can’t just go in and say, “Look, I have started a nonprofit. This is it. Are you willing to donate or sponsor me?” Those relationships are critical.
 The other thing is really look at what your needs are from the sponsors. Match up those sponsors first before you approach them. Start to develop those relationships. If you need media, printing, marketing, all of that, look at what your needs are because if you are very early-on and you try going to an Amazon, chances are you won’t get it. Go with your local companies. Go with the people that network with you. Go out there and network. Do some events, some free events, like walk-a-thons or something to that effect where you can get people involved and bring donations in that way. Through that, then the sponsors are going to be more apt to donate some dollars because they are branding themselves.
 Hugh: Wow. That is a lot of good stuff, Danna. You have hit on some really important topics today. Really rich content. What do you want to leave people with? A tip, a thought, a challenge? What do you want to leave people with?
 Danna: The biggest challenge I want to leave people with is one of the biggest challenges I fight all the time with my clients: think before you jump. Think before you jump. Think about the process. Think about the sequence. Think about the strategy behind what you are doing before you jump. When you are dealing with limited dollars, you don’t have dollars to waste. You want to make sure that those dollars go as far and as efficiently as you can make them go. The only way you will do that is to think about what you are spending those dollars on.
 Hugh: Very sage advice. Russell, thanks for joining us. Danna, thank you for the wonderful, useful content today.
 Danna: You’re welcome. Thank you. Nice talking to you again, Russell.
 Russell: Always a pleasure. Keep on keepin’ on.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Danna Olivo </strong>is a Business Growth Sequencing Strategist and CEO of MarketAtomy, LLC. Her passion is working with small first stage entrepreneurs to ensure that they start out on the right foot and stay on the path to financial freedom. Known as the Business Birthing Specialist, Danna understands the intricacies involved in starting and running a successful business. Her efforts extend beyond the initial strategic planning process on into the implementation and monitoring phase. As an intricate component ingrained into her client’s business structure, she works diligently to keep her client’s accountable and on track to fulfilling their success goals.</p> <p>A graduate of the University of Central Florida’s College of Business, Danna holds degrees in both Marketing and Management Information Systems (MIS). She brings more than 35 years of strategic planning experience in business, marketing and business development both nationally and internationally.</p> <p>Danna is not only a professional business growth strategist but has worked as an International Strategist within the country of Brazil, is a public speaker and #1 Best Selling Author on Amazon with “Success From The Heart” and “Journey To The Stage.” Her newest book “MarketAtomy: What To Expect When Expecting A Business” is now available through Amazon on Kindle.</p> <p><strong>What You will learn in this session:</strong></p> <ul> <li>What do Sponsors/Donors Expect</li> <li>How to Build an Infrastructure to support the Donor Experience</li> <li>The 7 steps for creating a lasting Donor Experience</li> </ul> <p> </p> <p><strong>Here's the Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> Our guest today is Danna Olivo. First day with the new teeth. Danna and I have been colleagues for a while, and I have grown to appreciate her work more each time I hear her present. We are talking about sponsors and donors and how to really keep that relationship at the highest level because it’s good for them, it’s good for us. We just need to know how to do the talking and create a system around that. I am not going to waste any more time. I like for guests to introduce themselves, so tell us a wee bit, a couple of minutes, about your background and what prepared you for being able to do this powerful work on this topic. Before you finish, talk about why you chose this. What is your passion for this?</p> <p><strong>Danna Olivo:</strong> Oh goodness. As Hugh said, my name is Danna Olivo. I like to call myself the Business Birthing Specialist. The reason that I go by that title is because I like working with early-stage and emerging entrepreneurs, whether they are nonprofit or for-profit. They are still in that birthing stage of their company. I am a business growth strategist at heart. That is backed up with more than 40 years in marketing, business development, and sales. That is where we get around to the experience that we are talking about: creating donor and sponsor experience. I work with for-profits and nonprofits to basically teach them how to build an infrastructure that attracts customers to their door and ultimately create an experience where they come out as advocates on the back end. That is where my background is.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You have taught at my live leadership empowerment symposium events. You and I are cooking up an event. We will do that again in Florida. We come to Florida on a regular basis. We are going to tag onto it a funding conference. Some of the stuff we are talking about will specifically be talking about fund sourcing and activation and maintenance for those running charities. It could be a church, synagogue, a membership organization, a cause-based charity. Any people doing, and really these are social entrepreneurs. That is still your sweet spot.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Whether you are dealing with for-profit companies, nonprofit companies, churches, the thing to keep in mind is we are still dealing with a business. We are still dealing with entrepreneurs. We have to also keep in mind we are still dealing with customers. Whether they be sponsors or donors or customers or parishioners, they are customers. We have to keep that mindset when we are thinking about it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You are so spot-on. We tend to think things are going to happen because we have a charitable cause. Not really. We are not really good at defining why it’s important and the impact of our work. We don’t really attract the money we deserve to attract because we are doing good work. We have a lot of different themes that we deal with in this episode. This podcast has been going on for three years. We have interviewed specialists like you who have brought some really good content. You are in good company as are they today.</p> <p>Danna, let’s set the stage a little bit. What is your passion for helping early-stage entrepreneurs get their head around this really important topic of donor/sponsorship?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> My passion stems from failures in the past. That is where a lot of my passion comes from. The mistakes learned and wanting to teach others how to avoid those mistakes. Working with small businesses, whether nonprofit or for-profit, but we are going to focus on nonprofit. When you start a business, a nonprofit business, it is cause-based generally. Cause-based businesses are emotional. You are tapping into the emotion. That is what you’re trying to do. Well, therefore, going after those customers, those sponsors and donors, you need to match that emotion to those sponsors and donors in order to get them to buy into your cause, right? Where my purpose is is teaching early-stage entrepreneurs there is a sequence to this. There is a sequence behind the research that has to go in to target those individuals that are more likely to emotionally buy into your cause, but also to understand what that messaging is that needs to be developed in order to reach those people. Not only on the sponsor/donor side, but what about on the other side? The people who are coming in that need your services, need your social platform. They need what you are providing through your platform.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> In business, whether it is a nonprofit, you’re right. We need to install sound business practices in the charities or religious institutions we run. It is a business with more rules than a for-profit business. We are regulated with good reason. The people can give us money and write it off on their taxes for good reason, or sponsors can give us marketing money because we create value for everyone. There is a little different nuance for sponsors and donors.</p> <p>Let’s take the donor piece first. We ask people to donate and support a cause. This is what’s going to happen. Then they fall off by the wayside and they don’t donate again, or they don’t tell other people. What is the biggest problem you see, the gap that hasn’t been filled with people running an organization and managing these donor relations?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Their structure. The structure that they put in place. It’s one thing to get those donors, to get those sponsors to the door. But if you cannot create that experience that I talk about, which involves the structure of the organization, then you are not going to be able to carry them through and create that experience that will turn them into advocates afterwards. Ultimately, that is what we want to do. We want to create our own sales team or our own promotional team on the back end because of the experiences that they had while working with our program.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Okay. I get that. That is theory. Turn it into practice. What does that structure look like? If somebody is listening to this and goes, “Wow, I need to maintain this relationship, but I don’t know where to start.” What does that structure look like?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Oh goodness. You can start so many different places. First of all, you have to put yourself in the mindset of the sponsor or the donor. What are they looking for? What are their expectations? They are expecting to get out of this relationship that they are with you on. On the sponsor side, are there expectations to really create a brand out there in the marketplace by helping you in creating more of a brand recognition on the social side? On the donor side, are they really- Do they want to feel empowered by helping something they are really emotional about? What is it that they are expecting? Most of the time, what you are going to be looking at is they want to be appreciated. If they are not shown appreciation, or they want to see transparency, and especially on the nonprofit side because if they don’t feel as though their money is being utilized the way it should be utilized, and as promised, chances are you won’t get them back again. That’s what we want. We want these donors and sponsors to come back again and again, especially when we have to depend on federal dollars as well. Those federal dollars can be pulled at any time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s really hard to get donors. We are competing with all these other charities out there. We want to have a process of maintaining that relationship. We don’t think about the donors until it’s time to donate again, and then we send a panicked letter saying, “We need your donation for next year,” but we haven’t talked to them all year.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> That is it. That is what I am talking about. They want to feel as though they are appreciated. They want and expect you to keep them in the loop. How are their dollars doing? What’s happening? Show them the results. Give them the statistics.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Say that again.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> You need to consistently be communicating with them. You need to show them what their dollars are doing as far as your cause. What are those statistics? How many of those lives are you affecting? How many people are you helping with the dollars they are giving you?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Why are those important?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> First of all, consider the fact that they are giving because they are passionate about their giving. They want to make sure that you are using their money to make a difference. That is one reason. They are passionate. This is their way of contributing. If you are not being transparent about it, they will go somewhere else that is doing the same thing in hopes they will be doing better.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I think it’s probably gratifying for a donor to see I gave this money, and you say, “This is what we were able to do with your money.”</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> A perfect example is my husband and I like contributing to the Smile Organization, primarily because we had relatives in the past that have had cleft lips. There is an organization out there that helped those who have deformed lips, cleft lips, that create these smiles. These are children. It really means a lot to us when we see one of these children being able to smile again and feeling good about what has happened after one of these surgeries. These surgeries don’t cost a lot in these foreign countries.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is such a great example. Several times in my life, I ran with the Leukemia/Lymphoma Society and pledged to raise a few thousand for leukemia and lymphoma research. At the race, I was connected to a particular patient with a wristband. It had their name, age, and condition on it. I was running for one person, but also for others, and I felt really purposed. Going back to the people who donated for me to run, they were betting on whether I would finish or not I’m sure, but they donated that few thousand and I did the running. We’ve been joined by the good-looking Russell Dennis in Denver, Colorado, and he just snuck in. He has experience in the funding seat for 11 years. Is that right, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> It is good to see you, Danna and Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Haven’t seen you since the last time we were on together.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s been far too long. With donors, one thing I find with people is that there is something magic about face-to-face contact. If you can have some non-ask events where you are not asking for money, just bringing them in to meet some of the people who are benefiting from your dollars, have them tour your facility, talk to other people, show them the exciting things their money is doing, and keeping them in the loop. Some people are going to want to be contacted more than others. It’s having a system to keep track of people and keep those connections. It is really something that if you can, you should have a single person try to keep the flow going. A director will do a lot of the face to face, but you want somebody to keep that communication loop open.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> That’s what I’m saying. You need to communicate with them. Involve them in the process, show them how their dollars are working, and help them be involved in it, as far as that’s concerned. First of all, the donors aren’t mind-readers. If you are not communicating with them, they are going to assume, and you don’t want them assuming. You want them to feel comfortable with where their dollars are being spent, and that they are making a difference. Am I right, Russell?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Spot on. At least, you can survey. It is just asking how are we doing, what would you like to see more of. They won’t know what they want to see more of if they don’t know what you’re doing. Keeping them in the loop is important. Surveying them-</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Serving on one of the boards of a local nonprofit here, one of the biggest things that nonprofits do run into is the budget cuts with federal dollars. I was sitting in on the board of Hope and Help, which is HIV/AIDS awareness. One of the biggest struggles we had was the fact that the other agencies like ours were fighting for these federal dollars. We didn’t really have in place any kind of public in-flow, or what we did have was very little. All we had was one major annual event that we did. That event only happened once a year. The dollars that we have to spend on expenses happen every month. That is where these sponsored dollars and donor dollars come in. Why should we have to rely only on federal money, which constantly is being cut back, and we never know we are going to have it year to year because there are other agencies fighting for it? How do we build those relationships with donors that we can count on every year? That is where we are going with this. Through transparency and by creating that donor experience that we can count on every year because we are meeting each other’s needs on both sides, that is where we are going to be able to overcome that issue of the gap between the dollars we need and the dollars that are coming in.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is the consistency. There is a rhythm to the communication. What is the mechanism you suggest people stay in touch? I think sending an email occasionally is not the answer, is it?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> First of all, because we are talking about relationships and creating an experience, it all boils down to service. That is what it’s all about. Servicing your donors. I use that as an acronym, and I built seven guidelines using the word “service.”</p> <p>The first is S, which is scalable. What I mean by the S in service is deliver an awesome donor experience that scales as your company grows. This involves knowing your donor. How do you make their giving decisions? How do they make their giving decisions, and understanding that? This is where this research comes in. Why would they donate?</p> <p>The E is for Essential. What that is, today there is no shortage of tools available for gathering predictive data on sponsors and donors. The problem is getting that data is not enough. You need to understand and know what is happening in the background. What is the chatter going on in the background that really speaks to what is really important? Most of your research is built around the dollars that are given. Most of your primary research is based on dollars given in this event. There is chatter that happens out in the ether. What we call is deep data mining. We need to understand that and monitor that and combine that.</p> <p>R is for Relatable. What relatable is is when you are in the fundraising mode, it’s important to listen and understand what motivates your donors. What is important to them?</p> <p>V is for Valuable. Intuitively, most people recognize the value of great customer service or donor service, but what are the causes? Causes that deliver value are ones that the sponsors will want to interact with. We want to create engagement. They will become more loyal as long as they can become engaged. This is where we get back to what we were talking about before as long as communicate with them, get them involved, invite them in, hold events that you’re not trying to gather their money but are bringing awareness.</p> <p>A perfect example is I have a 30-year-old niece who has Down syndrome. Because of this, I find myself being drawn to organizations that are committed to creating healthy independent living spaces/environments for individuals with Down syndrome. Some of those, what they do is provide a lifestyle where these individuals are creating and giving back to society. Those are the kinds of organizations I get involved with because they are close to my heart. It’s important for us to be able to relate to why the donor is giving.</p> <p>I is for Involvement. The donor experience involves a top-down approach. This is key. When the donor gives, they want to know that they are giving to the organization, and that it’s being recognized from the very top, not just from the people who are the representatives. They want to feel as though they are recognized from the top, from the directors of these organizations. Does that make sense?</p> <p>C is for Credible. This is a given. Trust is the backbone to credibility. It’s important that you do what you say you are going to do and when you say you are going to do it. Be consistent in your promises. Be transparent and communicative with sponsors. All of this is a given. We have known this all along. This is what comes with credibility.</p> <p>Finally, E is for what’s Expected. Deliver what they expect. We talked about that earlier. Did you make them feel valued? Did you treat them like they are important? Did you anticipate their needs for giving? Did you make them? Make it easy for them to engage. This is another thing. If you don’t make it easy for them to donate, they won’t jump through hoops. Did you show them that you cared? Did they feel loved? These are all important. These are the seven steps that I see that need to be built into the structure that will develop that donor relationship that will keep them coming back time and time again.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I remember that model. Give us the acronym again and the words.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> SERVICE. S is for Scalable. E is for Essential. R is for Relatable. V is for Valuable. I is for Involvement. C is for Credible. E is for Expected.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This sounds like she’s got a page out of your playbook, Russell.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> She has her own playbook, and it’s wonderful. That is one of the beauties of talking to brilliant people like Danna. I learn more all the time. You can never learn too much. It is creating that experience and value. That is seen to be a dirty word around charities. Nobody would use the word “value,” but you are in the value creation business. That is what it’s all about.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Like I said, it doesn’t matter if you are nonprofit, for-profit, whatever. Ultimately we are not here to make money because that is not generally what a nonprofit is all about. A nonprofit is creating an environment that helps others, whatever it is, but it takes money to do that. Therefore, you have to find that money.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> We get stuck with so many bottom lines because you have funding agencies, foundations, individual donors who come in all shapes and sizes. You have regulators, media, clients. You have all these bottom lines, and everybody has a different thing that is most important to them. It’s juggling all of that is at the center of relationship building. It’s asking questions. It’s talking to people, keeping them informed, asking them what they want to see more of, what they like, what we should keep doing, what we should stop doing. It’s just constant contact, which is the name of the game.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Most nonprofits get so wrapped up in the cause that they don’t worry about the business side of things. I wouldn’t say they don’t worry, but they don’t think they need the business side of things because they are so wrapped up in the cause that they think putting the cause out there is going to attract. That is not necessarily the case. You have to treat it just like a business. You have a message you have to put out there. You have research you have to do to find out who is most likely to contribute financially to the growth of this cause, of this nonprofit. Who are the organizations that we can count on as sponsorships to support us when we need it? All of those- There is a science behind it. There is a science behind growing nonprofits as well as for-profits.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Before we switch over to the sponsor track, Russ, he is the one that asks the real hard questions, Danna. Have you got a question or comment for her besides what you have already said?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I was thinking about sponsors versus donors but we are getting ready to roll into that. The one thought I did have was with starting a nonprofit or socially responsible business, it’s our baby, and we love it. We birthed it, we throw it over our shoulder, we burp it, and we can really get lost because the important thing is what other people who are impacted by the organization value is not necessarily what I think is valuable. It’s what the people I want to try to serve think is valuable. There are so many different ones; that’s where it gets complicated.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> It is very complicated. I think Hugh will agree with me: You can’t rely on just one source. You have to integrate the levels. It’s almost like having different revenue streams. Even in the for-profit side, I tell my clients not to rely on just one revenue stream. You don't rely only on funding grants. You don’t rely only on certain things because what you will find is those grants will be yanked, and you won’t have it coming in anymore. You have people to pay, clients that are yours that you promised services, and now you can’t afford to deliver. You have to develop a diversified approach to bringing money into a nonprofit, from the donor side, from the sponsor side, even legacy. Look at legacies. Get people involved enough to where they are so passionate about it that they will leave you mentioned in their wills. Those kinds of things.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What makes it more challenging is it’s important to have those multiple streams, but only as many as you can manage well. It’s the phased and systematic growth with first things first that takes all of the planning and building of the right structure, the strategy so that you don’t get overwhelmed and you grow to all of these different sources. You need as many as you can, but only as you can manage well.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> You’re right. The other thing to keep in mind though when you are setting up your revenue streams, how you will bring your money in, you also need to be looking at what are your monthly expenses, what is it you need to have every month so that you can plan this? Even in a nonprofit, you have to have a cash flow analysis, a cash flow statement, because you can’t go on a wing and prayer. You still have expenses. You have services you have to deliver. It costs money.</p> <p>My son, I love him dearly, and he is extremely intelligent. All his life, he has wanted to live off the land. He does not want to rely on anything. Growing up, I always told him, “Sweetheart, I appreciate that. That’s great. How are you going to get the land? You need money. How are you going to get the seeds to grow your vegetables? You need money.” There is a science to it. You have to plan this stuff.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is the anchor of this foundation underneath all of this. If you all are ready, let’s pivot over to the sponsor side of things. The donors are making a philanthropic gift. Their return on investment is a return on life that we give people in this sector, ROL. They want to see something happen. You’ve done a very good job of describing staying in touch with them, letting them know what the results are from their money.</p> <p>Sponsors are not making donations; they are spending marketing money because they want their brand associated with your brand. There are challenges with sponsorship. Talk about that channel a little bit and how to get top-of-mind with those sponsors and how to stay there.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> First of all, sponsorship dollars, when someone is sponsoring a nonprofit, they are doing it for a couple of reasons. First, the credibility, the connection to whoever it is they are sponsoring. Secondly, definitely for tax purposes. All of this other stuff. More importantly than anything, they are looking for a direct connection to whoever it is they are sponsoring and that brand that comes with it. The credibility, the recognition that comes with that sponsorship.</p> <p>To get those sponsors though comes that data we are talking about, the statistics. Most sponsors want to see that data of what your cause or what your platform has done. There has to be some kind of history there for them to feel good enough to be able to sponsor.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a negative brand reputation if your brand isn’t good enough. They want to verify it will give them a positive spin on their brand.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> As much as they can be connected to any messaging, marketing, whatever is going out, the better. If you have got a nonprofit and you’re developing videos and doing things like that, they want to be involved in that in one way or another as a sponsor.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a lot of similarities. Sponsorship is sponsorship. They want to see how many eyeballs, they want to create energy coming back to their business. In addition to what you have with the for-profit sponsorships, there is an affinity. Sponsors come on with something they have a passion for, or they want to see what happens or there is a philanthropic piece to the sponsorship. It’s still their marketing dollars, but they have an emotional piece. There is some rules around sponsorship, like we can’t do a direct call to action for a nonprofit. There is that IRS category of unrelated business income that then becomes taxable. There is a different protocol on the back end, but we are still representing the brand and the brand value and the brand promise and the brand identity to the sponsor. Continue. This is helpful.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> One of the other things that most nonprofits don’t realize is it’s most known for the for-profits sponsoring nonprofits. The nonprofits are looking for the for-profits to bring money in. What they are not taking into consideration is they can bring going out. For instance, with our funding conference that you’re a sponsor of, Hugh, SynerVision Leadership, in order for me and my company to be able to go out for community dollars, I needed a nonprofit arm. That is where that value can come in with a nonprofit, and there is another income stream that can come in by doing that, by partnering synergistically, strategically partnering.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have some relations in how the money flows, but that is why you have good accountants to help you set up those systems. Money is a value exchange. We are not really good at describing the value. I see a lot of charities get sponsors, and they put up a banner, put their name in the program, and mention them. There is not a lot of value received for a sponsor, and there is no checking expectations, how this fits into your overall marketing plan. Give us more ideas as to how we can create that lasting relationship with sponsors.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> That is where we go right back to what we are talking about on the donor side. We need to understand what their expectations are. What do they expect out of this sponsorship? Are they looking to participate? Are they looking to just have their brand brought in? We have to look at what their expectations are. What are their needs? They may have specific needs they are looking at with their sponsorship. Are they looking to bring into an environment that may need their services, either legally or financially or whatever? They may be sponsoring because it will introduce them to a different market that they could bring in as clients. We have to look at, and we have to understand what their expectations are in order for them to keep coming back.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, I bet you are liking that one.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s true. What we are talking about here is a value for value exchange. With the nonprofit, money is very important, but it’s not everything. It’s the reason that the nonprofit is set up for. What is that value you can exchange? What is the sponsor looking for? Do you have a synergy where your values are concerned? Are you going to expose them to new customers? This is a metric we are talking about. How much media exposure are they going to get? We are talking about good will. We are talking about more bang for the buck. If they run out of sponsorship money, if they like what you’ve got, they will dip into some marketing dollars because you could actually get them a lot more bang for their buck. You have to understand as you approach a sponsor if you can do that. There is an art to it. You have to have a conversation with them. Is it possible that you can have a multi-year agreement? If you are going to go in and talk to them, you might as swell swing for the fence instead of having a one and done. Try to build that relationship and see what makes sense. Put some markers in there so that you can grow it. You want to keep these folks coming back. There is a difference.</p> <p>A lot of people mistake sponsorship for donations. They will go out and talk to businesses. We have this event, we’d like some auction items and these types of things. You have donations on one hand and sponsorship on the other. A donation is something they just give you. If they are looking for a value-for-value exchange in a pure sponsorship, they will look at who else has sponsored you. One question they will have in their minds is: Let’s take Apple and Google. You go to Apple and say, “I have this event.” It could be an event where you try to bring in people, and you want Apple to be a sponsor. One question they are going to have is if we don’t do this, will Amazon do it, or Microsoft, or Google? They may want some exclusivity. You never know. That would be a darn good problem to have.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Yes, it would. Definitely it would. But you are right. Understanding what their expectations are, they get hit by nonprofits all the time. They have to weigh the value that is coming out of their sponsorship dollars if they are going to be giving away. How will that benefit me? Am I going to be fighting against competition? Am I going to be fighting against my morals, my culture? Does it match? Us as a nonprofit have to be looking at that before we even approach them because those are the questions they are going to ask. If we are not prepared to answer them ,chances are we will lose them.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> From what I have learned from other people who have been successful at getting sponsorships, some of what they do is approach people. They do their homework, a lot of research, and they try to approach the right people. They ask questions. People approach grant funders in this same manner. Building the relationships, looking at who might be a fit, and actually reviewing their website, reviewing whatever medium/material you have available, and calling a program officer, calling the appropriate person at the headquarters to ask them for a short informational interview. Do your homework so that you are not asking them stuff that is readily available. That will put a dent in your credibility off the bat. You ask questions to find out what is not between the lines. What is not written to get a feel for what sort of stuff they look for, what they are proud of, what did you do that worked, and ask what events they sponsored before. If it looks like you can deliver something that might be important to them, ask them if you can send them a proposal. You’re not sending something blind. Doing that with private foundations saves you a lot of time, especially if you don’t have a lot of resources or grant writers to go do it. Having those conversations, they remember you. You might have to make some adjustments in your language. You don’t want to shift who you are and what you’re about and what you’re doing, but you may need to adjust the language to put it in the proposal to persuade them to fund you.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> One thing I have run into in the past if you are starting a new nonprofit or are in the early stages, oftentimes you will find that some nonprofits will try to beef things up in their proposals over and above what they are. It needs to be understood that you are going to be vetted. It’s important that you are credible and transparent in everything that you do. Otherwise, you’re going to lose those sponsorships, those donors, anything that you are going after. This is what a lot of nonprofits run into sometimes; they are not able to back up, whether with social proof or data, they are not able to back up what they are all about. I have started a nonprofit, and that’s it. This is where you run into issues sometimes when you are trying to raise money for a nonprofit. It’s tough. Just like with a for-profit business. In the beginning, you are doing it out of pocket. You are self-funding quite a bit.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You want to stop that though. What you are hitting around is that we need to be professionals at running the organization.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Like a business.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A lot of cause-based charities, people have expertise or passion about the cause and zero ability to run a business. I encourage those people to get an admin or an executive director. What I have started suggesting that organizations do is create a position called a funds strategist. They look at your road map, your strategic plan, your solution map that says where you are going to be and how you are going to get there. Then we have targeted budget items for those one or two years out.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> This is where a cash flow statement comes in. A cash flow statement, when you think about it, is you are breaking down your revenue streams two years, three years. What you are doing is breaking it down on a monthly basis so that you know what your goals are to meet your expenses.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We don’t do that. What we do sometimes is a cash flow analysis, which is the rearview mirror. What we need is the cash flow forecast, the headlights. We don’t think about that a lot. We get this lump of money. We raised some money at an event. What you are talking about is we talk about when it’s going to run out. When we are making presentations, we want to talk about use of funds, what the impact is going to be. We measure that. If you’re good at it, and Russell talked about the value exchange, we are going to attract more money if we are really good at attracting the first money. There is a skill in learning how to make the presentations and attract the money. We don’t give equal time to that. It’s like we build a car. We build this great thing, and we fill the seats with our team members, but we don’t learn to drive the car and we haven’t put the gas in it, which is the money.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> The other thing to keep in mind, especially on the cash flow side, is the reason we deal with it is a lot of nonprofits depend on donors. They get donor promises. Those promises don’t come in right away. It’s important to understand on a cash flow statement those donor promises are not going to pay the bills until those checks come in. That is where I talk about let’s make it easy for them to donate as opposed to making a promise, and then we have to keep chasing them for the dollars. Let’s make the process easier until we get those donation dollars or sponsorship dollars in.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When they do a pledge week at NPR, they say, “Give us your card, and you can do a recurring donation.” You will give every month. They go for the monthly recurring smaller donations rather than bigger lump sums.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> I think that’s probably better in a way. You know what’s coming in every single month.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It doesn’t mean we ignore them. We may need to create the program you’re talking about of staying in touch. A funds strategist will create funding programs to support the strategic plan, your targets and budgets for each state of your development, and then your cash flow statement projects how long the money that you raise is going to last. You will run dry if you don’t have that recurring revenue.</p> <p>Sponsors are unique. We will do a whole show on sponsors here soon. It’s a very unique pathway. You talked about multiple streams of revenue. There are eight, not counting real estate. Donors and sponsors are right at the top. Those are dependable, regular. Typically, grants are for special purposes. If you do a good job with a sponsor, you have asked what they want, and you create results for them, then there is no reason for them to stop. This service piece that you are talking about is actually essential for regular recurring revenue, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> When you think about the number of nonprofits fighting for the same sponsors, it’s not as if they don’t have enough organizations wanting their sponsorship dollars. How are you going to keep yourself at top of mind as far as these sponsors are concerned? This is where meeting their expectations and understanding that is how you are going to keep them with you. They are going to turn around and convince others to come in as sponsors. That is what the sponsorship service, the relationship you are developing, that is what the end goal is: keep them in the pipeline and have them turn into your own advocates on the back end to create more sponsors for you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is so well-put. Do you have any questions or comments for Danna, Russell?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One of the things that I would ask or that people talk about in the question I get—I don’t always have a good answer for it. Very new nonprofits, what is the best way for them to approach obtaining sponsorship? On what scale should they aim for?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Told you he had the hard questions.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> I have dealt with a few very early nonprofits as far as that is concerned. Oh goodness. What is the best approach? Relationships by far. You have to have those relationships. You can’t just go in and say, “Look, I have started a nonprofit. This is it. Are you willing to donate or sponsor me?” Those relationships are critical.</p> <p>The other thing is really look at what your needs are from the sponsors. Match up those sponsors first before you approach them. Start to develop those relationships. If you need media, printing, marketing, all of that, look at what your needs are because if you are very early-on and you try going to an Amazon, chances are you won’t get it. Go with your local companies. Go with the people that network with you. Go out there and network. Do some events, some free events, like walk-a-thons or something to that effect where you can get people involved and bring donations in that way. Through that, then the sponsors are going to be more apt to donate some dollars because they are branding themselves.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. That is a lot of good stuff, Danna. You have hit on some really important topics today. Really rich content. What do you want to leave people with? A tip, a thought, a challenge? What do you want to leave people with?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> The biggest challenge I want to leave people with is one of the biggest challenges I fight all the time with my clients: think before you jump. Think before you jump. Think about the process. Think about the sequence. Think about the strategy behind what you are doing before you jump. When you are dealing with limited dollars, you don’t have dollars to waste. You want to make sure that those dollars go as far and as efficiently as you can make them go. The only way you will do that is to think about what you are spending those dollars on.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Very sage advice. Russell, thanks for joining us. Danna, thank you for the wonderful, useful content today.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> You’re welcome. Thank you. Nice talking to you again, Russell.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Always a pleasure. Keep on keepin’ on.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Engaging Volunteers or Hiring Staff without a Background Check is Trouble</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/engaging-volunteers-or-hiring-staff-without-a-background-check-is-trouble</link>
      <description>Interview with Steve Durie
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. Another episode of The Nonprofit Exchange live, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. Russell, how are you doing today out there in beautiful Colorado?
 Russell Dennis: After a snowfall last night, the sun has come back out. Everything is beautiful out here in Colorado.
 Hugh: Love it. People on the podcast can’t see it, but you’ve got a shiny head. Is that part of the sign, or is that just the light over your head?
 Russell: All of this glare helps keep the focus off of the shadow here with all of the gray hair in it, so there is a method to my madness shining the light here.
 Hugh: I see that. Russell, the real person. We have a guest who is also a resident of Colorado, but he is a new resident of Florida. We are going to hear from him in just a minute. Today’s topic is protecting your culture by doing effective vetting of the people you’re bringing in, be it volunteers or paid staff. Steve Durie, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Steve Durie: Thank you, Hugh. It’s good to be here.
 Hugh: So good to have you. Tell us a little bit about yourself, some background, and how did you arrive at what you’re doing now? Why is it important to you?
 Steve: I have been doing this for 15 years. Where it started was when I was actually volunteering in youth organizations with my kids. My question was: Aren’t you going to run a background check on me? They’re like, No, we don’t do that. We trust everyone. Previous to that, I had a lot of database experience in a consulting company in consulting on justice projects, that is, how to share criminal data. I took that knowledge about sharing criminal data and my passion for keeping my own kids safe and know that I was going to be working as a volunteer and turned it into a business 15 years ago. My kids are a little older now, and my wife Laura and I have a special needs son. He is an adult; he is 31. But he is also extremely vulnerable and needs protection. He doesn’t live at home anymore. And that is a constant worry about Tommy, whether the people who are working alongside him are safe. It does transcend not just our children in their youth, but into any vulnerable population. That is a broad brushstroke is anybody who is vulnerable, and we can look at each group individually as to how to best screen someone and check them out if we are working with children, youth, or vulnerable adults, or elderly, or single people. There are a lot of different. Vulnerable populations who may need our work.
 Hugh: Absolutely. It’s really good to know about people. In the work that Russell and I do through SynerVision, we help people build their strategy out. Part of that is competencies. We have created a new paradigm that replaces the position description, and the first of four colors is the competency. When you look at somebody’s competency, you also want to do a background check so that you can validate what is on their resume, that they actually do that. Are there some hidden things in there? Finding out about the people. What is their performance going to be?
 Role and responsibility? If it’s financial, there is another level of compliance. I used to live in a town of 30,000, and one year, there were two nonprofits that had treasurers make away with $750,000, trusted friends and community members. They didn’t do an adequate background check or have safeguards in place.
 The third color is the culture fit. If somebody has a history of conflict or abuse, you don’t really want them spoiling your culture.
 The fourth color is expectations, but the vetting the person, competency, not only are they clean, but they also fit the culture. There are lots of reasons in any kind of enterprise to do the background check. I think it’s especially important when we are dealing with people who are compromised, like your son, like children, like older adults. There are lots of opportunities for people to abuse the system. You have worked with nonprofits so far, have you?
 Steve: Our focus of the company SecureSearch is with the nonprofit community. It’s been over 15 years; we have served over 10,000 nonprofits as their partner for screening their staff, their volunteers, and their board of directors. We are a full-service company. We can do anything, from resume verification to child awareness for those who work with children.
 Hugh: Resume verification. I heard a guy one time, and his resume said he went to Yale and studied finance. I found out later he didn’t graduate. People make up things on their resume. That’s a new piece of data.
 Are nonprofits any more vulnerable than for-profits? Is there an attitude of difference there? You told a story about you being a volunteer, and you ask about the background check. They said we trust people. Do you find that to be more common than not?
 Steve: I find that to be pretty common in the nonprofit culture where they are really hungry for people to serve and to help. With that, sometimes they actually push aside the fact that these people may have a nefarious past. They are looking to quickly onboard them, get them into a position. They are happy to have a warm body. They are happy to have the skillset the individual brings to the table. Referred by a close friend or family member, so they are not even thinking about screening them, especially if they are not working directly with a child. When they are working with a child, it’s more in our consciousness that we should put the best people with these kids to keep in faith. But what about people who are just working alongside one another? The workplace violence conflict. We need to focus on making all of our communities and all of the workplaces as safe as possible. It’s the responsibility of the organization to do so. But nonprofits, because of their compromised budgets in some cases, they are spending their money elsewhere to maybe grow their projects and they are not really thinking about the people, if they are safe in the environment they are working in. In corporate America, it is common, and in the nonprofit arena, it is not as common. We are here as a voice to raise the awareness that everybody should be doing this, whether you have one employee or thousands.
 Hugh: You and I met at a conference last week, CEO Space. Had I met you—I came in late in the week because I had conflicts—and said, “Hey Steve, what is it that you do?” and you say, “I do background searches,” and I say, “I have a nonprofit. Why is it important for me to do that?” How would you respond to me?
 Steve: As a nonprofit?
 Hugh: If I say, “I have a nonprofit. Why is it important for me to do that?”
 Steve: You touched on this. It’s about reducing risk and reducing liability. Liability is big. It all ties into the overall image in the community they’re serving. It’s protecting their image. It doesn’t have to be their first priority. The first priority is protecting those who are part of their organization. You have to look at the entire hierarchy of your staff from your board of directors down to your volunteers. Oftentimes, there are people in between the upper board and the volunteers who are just coming on who get missed. They didn’t think it was important to screen them. Really it’s about lowering your liability and lowering your risk, or at least managing your risk. You can’t be a risk-free organization; that doesn’t exist. It’s about, how do you take steps and utilize your budget dollars to minimize your risk as much as you possibly can?
 Hugh: Russell, you and I interface with a lot of nonprofit leaders and boards. I find there is a lot of boards that aren’t up to speed on how to be the board. They think about being in charge of governance sometimes. They sometimes realize they are responsible for financial oversight. I don’t think boards realize they have a liability whatever happens. Do you find, Russell, in your work that boards are blind to this element as well?
 Russell: I have talked to people who really don’t have a core grasp of the notion of having liability insurance for the board of directors officers as they are putting these things together. They don’t understand how critical that is and what risks are involved. A large part of the problem is people don’t know what they don’t know. Nonprofit leaders, these are people centered in the idea of making the world a better place and service to others. They are more prone to take people at their word as opposed to doing any sort of digging. They may not think there is a big risk associated with bringing a person on. It’s nice to be able to take people at their word, but it depends on what kind of work you’re doing, who you’re serving, the assets of your organization you’re protecting. It never occurs to people there may be a scurvy elephant roaming around the zoo. You have to have a look at who you’re dealing with. People aren’t always who they say they are. That is just the reality of it. It’s important to look at these things up front because if you don’t have a person who is not in integrity in there in the first place, you don’t have to figure out how to get rid of them later on when you could have problems. The reputation of your organization could be at stake. You just have these horror stories. There was a veterans’ organization a few years ago that saw their reputation fall apart because the CEO was playing games with the books. Always you have to think in terms of protecting yourself with your regulations, with internal controls, with the way money and other assets are handled. More important, how you deal with the people you serve. You can really get in a lot of trouble easily and quickly without in the least bit intending to.
 Hugh: Steve, did that shake loose any thoughts for you?
 Steve: Yeah, it actually did. I do believe that nonprofits feel that the people they bring in have the heart for what they do. If they have a heart for what they do, then they are probably good people. I really think that is a mistake a lot of them make. Taking that assumption because they say they believe in what you believe in, they have the passion for what you have a passion for, that doesn’t mean they have the same background you have. A lot of people are trying to use their influence they currently have in the community, it could be a leader in the community, to find their way into a vulnerable group. That is the MO of a pedophile is to build up trust in everybody around them, including building themselves up to be leaders in the community so that everybody seems to trust them, and that is when they can get to the vulnerable children and build relationships without anybody thinking twice about it.
 Screening is not going to catch everybody, only if they have been arrested or convicted of something in the past. It’s only one part of the puzzle for keeping not only your organization safe, but those that you serve. It goes much more beyond the background check. I don’t think anyone can feel that they have that warm fuzzy feeling now that I have implemented background checks. I’m good, I got a green check mark for that person, I can just let them go. That is a wrong approach. You really need to have a conscious community around that everybody is the eyes and ears of the organization. We all have to keep our eyes on who we’re working alongside. If they are doing something we believe is incorrect or harmful to the organization or to those who serve, to make sure we all feel empowered to report those things, especially for physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, sexual harassment, whatever you might see. It’s up to us to report it.
 Hugh: There is another realm that Russell talked about with having your policies and procedures up to date. You just pointed out, we have to pay attention. That is part of our responsibility as a leader to see what is in front of us. I never realized people who are—and it makes sense if you talk about it—a pedophile positions themselves in a place of trust and then continues to validate that, so they throw people off guard. No, it couldn’t possibly be true. I have known people in that position before, and they were busted. Eventually you got caught. How long does it take and how many people do you hurt in the process? At least do your background check, which also helps relieve your liability. I’m sure some of the companies that Russell talked about that issue board insurance require a background check so they have less liability.
 I didn’t warn you: When Russell comes in, he asks you the hard questions. I’ll ask you easier ones first while he formulates the hard ones.
 Give us an example where people were trusting, and it really created damage. Then you came in and maybe you helped them get a process in place to prevent it in the future. Without naming names, what are the kinds of things that people should be alert to?  
 Steve: There are so many stories. Some have been recently in the news that everybody is aware of. One is USA Gymnastics with Dr. Nassau. Building trust, not only from the organization, but with the parents of these young children in the gymnastics program, and then going on to abuse them for years without ever getting caught. Sandusky at Penn State, same thing. He was able to testify with his peers that showering with young boys was just about cleanliness. They are always going to try to lie about who they are and have somebody believe it. They are masters at it. They never take any responsibility for their actions. It’s that narcissistic behavior on the pedophile side.
 Another story has nothing to do with a criminal record. This was a nonprofit organization that had drivers and they were doing deliveries. One of the individuals when we met with them, and we were on site for this one, he was in the state of Colorado, but he had a Tennessee drivers’ license. He said he had been here for four years. I asked him why didn’t he have a Colorado license. He said that he lost his license in Colorado from too many speeding tickets, so he had to go to my parent’s house in Tennessee to get a license. He is volunteering for an organization that drives one of their vehicles.
 People can get around from their past and get away from their past, whether it’s criminal behavior or not. It could be resume fudging. That happens more than you know, especially for certain positions, for executive director positions, finance positions, COO type positions, where they can say they have a Master’s degree in finance. They really just have a Bachelor’s, or they never finished college. They put it on their resume for years, and nobody questioned it. There are stories where the CEO of RadioShack, and RadioShack is falling from grace, but the CEO never had his Master’s degree in business, never had his MBA. It was a reporter who figured it out and started reporting on it. Then he resigned or got let go.
 Same thing with the president of the business school of Harvard. She had miscommunicated on her resume that she had a Ph. D, and she never did. Organizations that we all know about and have heard about, down to around the corner with businesses in your neighborhood or possibly even your organization. It’s important to vet the higher-end positions in your organization. It’s not just about the volunteers. I can go on forever about why it’s important for the volunteers, but anybody working in your office, making sure you are looking at embezzlement or money laundering or anything that deals with your budget, your finances, your books, make sure those are always intact and that you are bringing on the best people.
 Background checks don’t always catch everybody. They may never have been arrested before. I am going to go back to what Hugh was talking about with the pedophile. Eventually they get caught. That’s not true. They never get caught, and they die with their secrets. The average pedophile molests 137 children in their lifetime without ever getting arrested for it. That is where the training is more important than the background check and being aware and keeping their eyes open.
 Hugh: Wow. I guess there is some people who will be polite and they think it’s not polite to do a background check. Have you come across that? How do you respond to that?
 Steve: For the last 15 years, we have dealt with that. I don’t know exactly where that really stems from other than they feel like it’s unkind to ask someone to sign a consent form to do a background check. They are giving of their time, and I feel like I am invading their privacy if I ask them for this information. But you have to think about your organization and its reputation and why you have that organization set up in the first place. Then you have to make sure you bring on the best people. You just need to frame it differently: we are a culture of safety instead of just being haphazard about who we bring on. I think that everybody who comes on board would feel more confident with the person sitting next to them, with the person they are running an errand with to Office Depot if they are going in the same vehicle together. You will have a higher level of confidence that the organization did the right thing before you came.
 Hugh: Where is the person who said, “Oh, I don’t want to be impolite to them,” so they back down from not realizing they are being impolite to everyone else in the culture. I don’t want to make trouble, but if they don’t do that, they will make trouble for everybody else.
 What about the person who says, “I don’t have time for that?” That sounds like too much trouble.
 Steve: The one issue with nonprofits is wearing so many hats and being so busy. I think that sometimes the background check seems like a daunting task, especially if they have never done them. First, I have to vet a company. I don’t know where to go to trust somebody. I don’t want to do all the paperwork. I have enough things going on. I don’t even understand background checks. How am I going to do this? I don’t have a Human Resources background, nor do I have a HR director on staff.
 That is where SecureSearch makes it a little unique. We can come in understanding that that is one of your pain points on not having enough people to do all of the tasks you have to do. We made everything paperless. Not only are the consent forms, but also the entire process of signing up is paperless. Everything is the click of a button. The applicants, whether they be your board of directors, staff, or volunteers, they do all of the data entry. All you’re doing is sending an email invitation. Simple as that.
 Hugh: Wow. If I came to you and said I have ten volunteers and I need to take them through a background check, then you’d give me a consent form for them to sign, with permission to do that.
 Steve: The way you phrased that is interesting, that you give them a consent form. It’s actually against the law for us to provide a template consent form. We provide samples. All consent forms are the organization’s form. It’s not my form. We provide a sample, but it is really up to each organization to go through legal counsel and make sure everything is in there that needs to be in there and that it meets their federal and state laws. We try to do our best with our samples to make sure they are good, but you should only use that as a framework.
 Hugh: Before you can do the background check, I have to have them sign a form though.
 Steve: Yes. That form can be in paper, or it can be through our paperless volunteer and applicant portal that is called Search My Background that we have. If everything is in the portal electronically, and they sign a signature box either with their finger on a mobile device or the mouse of their computer. That signature will map to all the documents in the system so that everything is signed and everything is provided to the applicant.
 Hugh: Where I was headed with that, and I thank you for the clarification on the language, where I was headed with that is I would say I have my ten volunteers and I need to run them through the process. Would you suggest to me that I do it on myself as well?
 Steve: Well, somebody should run one on you. But if you want to at least have something in the “file,” whether it be a digital file or a file folder in a lockable filing cabinet, having your own in there is a good idea, especially to report to the board that if you are the executive director, it started with you. Sometimes you can be surprised on what you might see on your own.
 We had an executive director in Minnesota who had a small nonprofit. I think it was five or ten volunteers based on what he told me over the phone. This was quite a few years ago. When I was small enough and able to see the background checks coming in on a regular basis, I pulled it open and said, “Oh, I talked to that gentleman on the phone.” He signed up and ran his background check; he had three pages of felonies on his own. He never ran another background check with us. I think he was curious as to if his own background check would come up and expose him as a customer. There was nothing I could do to share it with the greater group of that organization. There is a lot of risk out there. It can start with that executive director. I don’t think the executive director should be the one running the background check; it should be pushed by the board that the executive director have a background check.
 Hugh: Absolutely. Nobody should be exempt from it. Everybody should go through it. The founder, the executive director.
 Steve: Everybody.
 Hugh: Great. We are almost halfway through this interview. Russell, I’m sure that you have formulated a great question for our guest.
 Russell: As I was saying earlier, a lot of people don’t know what they don’t know. I think it starts with going from a place of what do I know, what have I been told, what don’t I know, and where did the information I get come from? How do I know what I know?
 I think my first question would be all quality information. How can you get quality information to make sure that what you’re hearing can be verified?
 Steve: That is a really good question. There are a lot of background screening companies in the U.S, thousands really. Everybody approaches business differently. Some are very small, that concept of working out of your garage, and they might not have a website. They might be in it just for the profit. There are lots of different data points to put together a good background check. The problem I see with the nonprofit side is they are learning on these database products to be the be-all end-all product because it’s fast and it’s inexpensive. They think because somebody might be calling it a national search that it truly is. But it isn’t. I like to think of the database searches as a net. If you can picture the map of the United States and now you’re casting this net across the United States, what is the net made up of? Holes strung together is the way I’d like to put it.
 I want you to remember that while it might be national—we call it multi-state—there are going to be holes. In some areas of this net there will be tears and huge holes versus tightly knit holes in other areas. You have this product that a lot of the nonprofits like to order because they think it’s national, they think it’s an easy, inexpensive way to launch into the background checks, and they don’t realize the risks that are still going to be there. They are not conducting what we call a best-in-class background check. Nonprofits have to be careful.
 To answer your question about data, we take three different aggregation data points from the database and merge them together, eliminating the duplicate points. Other companies will buy data from these aggregate groups of data, and they will hang it on their own internal servers and ping against that data for months before they refresh it. That’s how you get the $2 background checks for some of these large nonprofits. I’m not saying everybody does it, but in order to reduce the cost to meet what an expectation might be for a nonprofit, which is cheap, these organizations are going to give you bad and old data.
 We refresh our data every week, in some cases like the sex offender registries, for some every two weeks. But the oldest refresh we have is 30 days for our entire database. Again, it’s a merge of three different data points coming together. We didn’t get into this business primarily to make a profit; we got into this business to protect those who need to be protected.
 Russell: That’s it. It’s setting that intention right up front. When you talk to people, you have to set an intention up front about what it is you’re doing. When you talk to people who might be new that we need to help, but understand we are going to be looking into some things, asking you questions for the sake of transparency, and direct about it. Who, what, when, where, why, and how? We keep our questions as open in that way as we can so that we get some meaningful information. I think that people who have things to hide may balk a little bit at this directness. Somebody is fidgeting, and they are talking about how much time this is taking, why you need to know that. In my head, that will be a red flag. What say you?
 Steve: A hidden benefit of the background check implementation is the bad ones kind of leave in the guise of night. They don’t come back tomorrow. You actually said, “Hey, we take it seriously, we are going to have a consent form for you to sign. We will call your references. We will check in on who you say you are.”
 That’s another thing, references. If you are not calling references, whether you outsource it to an organization, I recommend doing it internally so you can hear the nuance of the phone, the pregnant pauses of someone being asked, “Is this somebody you would bring back into your organization if you could?” and they go, “Hmm, well, I don’t know about that.” If you outsource that, it’s hard for somebody to put that into words on a report. I recommend if you have the time to do it yourself. If you have the money, you can outsource it. References are just as important as the background check. The background checks of course can be criminal. They can also verify your resume, education, employment. It’s not always just looking at their criminal records, but making sure they are who they say they are.
 Hugh: While you are on that track, what kinds of background checks are there? Go over that again.
 Steve: There are lots of different types of background checks. We want to get nonprofit organizations to stop thinking about using the database just for looking for a criminal or a sex offender. Because of the analogy I used with the net with all the larger holes and tears, you need to look at each applicant holistically. Instead of where your organization is serving or based and the geography and how that might look in a database search, you need to look at the applicant.
 John could be a resident of one place for his whole life, and Mary has lived in seven different places in seven years. Mary, you are going to have to do more on because there are possibilities that the database has missed where Mary lives, they weren’t up to date, and you are going to add a county courthouse search or a statewide repository search if it exists, like it does in Colorado. Other states have that, too. You are going to need to start with a foundation and then lay additional due diligence on top of that to get a good profile for each applicant instead of one size fits all.
 The criminal side, you break out into two different things. We have state and local crimes that you find in a database. You have the sex offender crimes that are in the sex offender registry. Then you will have crimes against the federal government or federal-related crimes. A lot of people think of these as the white-collar crimes, the Bernie Madoffs or the Martha Stewart crime where she got involved in the stocks. Yes, but inter-state kidnapping is also a federal crime. Money laundering and profiteering is a federal crime. Any building on federal lands. A lot of organizations and companies lately neglect ordering a federal criminal search. That can come back to bite them if they don’t search it.
 There are a lot of other things, too. Motor vehicle searches, I mentioned. Credit reports we can do. You can do the education verification. International criminal and credit. Motor vehicles. We have 165 different services available to any organization, and most organizations look at about five.
 Russell:What are some of the training opportunities? Part of the challenge is training nonprofit leaders or other people about what the benefits are and the dangers of neglecting to do due diligence. In other words, what are the things that you’re doing to assist people to understand the value of it so that they actually have this awareness? It’s one thing to bring somebody in. Somebody could slide under the radar after you have done your search. Maybe something changes. People need to have an idea of what sort of things they need to look out for to make sure that everything is good. What training do you folks give nonprofits an opportunity to take advantage of so that they have a better sense of when they may need some help digging into something?
 Steve: We actually have a very specific training program that I actually founded. It’s called Safeguard from Abuse. With a focus on the vulnerable populations that a lot of nonprofits focus their energy into those communities, it is a 75-minute online and also on a DVD training program with a certificate of understanding for those that pass the test on all of the different types of abuse, not just the sexual abuse, but neglect, physical, and emotional abuse, diving deep into what they are, diving deep into how to recognize when a child is being abused. So many organizations have that fear of having a sexual predator in their midst, so we do focus more time and attention in their personality traits, their grooming behaviors, understanding the personality of that pedophile.
 The most important thing is raising the awareness overall through the training, but empowering each person who goes through the video to be a mandated reporter and to understand that they can’t help if they put their head in the sand. They have to be empowered to report, and they have to understand how to do so is very important. The awareness training is important.
 My example that I like to use is Russell, you want to buy a new car. You have a brand of car in mind, and you’re getting in that car and heading down the road. All of a sudden, you start to see that car everywhere. It’s now in your awareness. It’s always been there, just like the characteristics of people who harm kids. They’re still doing it in front of us; we’re just not aware of it. We didn’t raise our awareness level high enough to see what’s always been there but invisible to the eye. It’s really what we focus on is what we see. What we focus on we become as well. We want to make sure that we can train enough people to end child abuse, or at least if we can save one child, it’s all worth it.
 Russell: Every time you buy a new car, everybody buys the same make, model, and color that very same day. I was thinking about all of these things. There are people who are listening to this, and they may be leaning back in their chairs thinking, No, I never did any of this stuff up front. Now I have 60 people. How do I know that I don’t have somebody like this in my midst right now? Is there some type of organizational audit or assessment that you can do?
 Steve: We can definitely help. What you’re saying is I gotta go retro. I have to go back to day one, and anybody who is still with me, screen them. That seems like an invasion maybe, or a daunting task, or maybe you’re just thinking, I’ll start with the next person. Now you will set yourself up for some difficulties being fair and equitable. If it’s just Susan who just walked in the door but you did not go back five years ago and do this, once you implement the strategy, you have to implement it at any level and go back and do everybody. Starting top down is a good approach. Start at the top, and push down through the hierarchy of individuals in your organization. It’s about resetting the reason for why you’re doing it. You are resetting the fact that you have this new program that you’re implementing. Our insurance company wants us to do it. Most insurance companies want you to do it anyway. If you have to put it on something else, you can just say it’s a new requirement. It could be just your organization’s requirement. Once it’s a new requirement, it’s a requirement. Everybody has to do it.
 Russell: Having everybody do it ensures that you don’t have somebody out there who wants to take you to court saying they’re being singled out because I’m a woman or I’m black or I’m over 50, or just anything they can pull out to say why it doesn’t apply. We talked about that comfort level that people have. I don’t want to offend or put anybody out. How do you help people who decide to do something like that do it in the face of the apprehension that they may have and the fear of offending somebody, implementing it seamlessly? What are some of the things you do to help people through that?
 Steve: That’s a good question. We help organizations put together a background screening policy. It’s all about policies. Sometimes you might have a policy- With those who work with kids, you might have a child protection policy, for example. But even in that child protection policy, they don’t talk about background checks. So we need to weave in another layer of policy, and that is who do we screen, why do we screen them, how often do we screen them, and what do we order? Really it comes down to being comfortable enough with your organization and communicating that you do have policies. It’s part of your mission and vision, wherever it is that it fits in, to make it that important. You can make it unimportant and be at risk and have everyone at risk, or you can make it important and be an advocate for safety and make your organization. It’s all about preserving that organization. Amp up your image; it will help you and the community.
 Hugh: Both of you are talking about people not knowing what they don’t know. There is a side that people are so close to it, you’re so involved in it, that you’re so blind to it because you are focusing on the day-to-day and the relationships. You’re blind to all of the liabilities. Having someone like you that is skilled to discuss policy procedure with I think is really a high benefit. Is that part of your service that you offer?
 Steve: We offer that at no charge. Phone call conversations, any time someone wants to talk to me. It’s very individual. Each organization is very individual, and I can’t just say, Here is a template. We like to discuss what your organization looks like, the different roles and responsibilities you might have, the silos you may have, the offshoots of your organization you may have, and drill down. Like I mentioned, it’s not a one-size-fits-all. Based on roles and responsibilities, you will be ordering different types of services. You may order motor vehicle for one, you may need to look at a credit report for one, but it won’t be for all. We want to make sure that you understand that as an organization, what’s available first of all, why you should order it, and then implement it. Now it’s part of your policy manual, and now it can be handed off if you were to leave the organization. If you are in charge of this role, and now you are leaving or retiring to go do something else, you can now hand it off to someone else and they won’t have to reinvent the wheel. It’s important to do it on the front end, but we’ll help.
 Hugh: Your link for people to find you is SecureSearch.com?
 Steve: It’s actually not. I wish I had that. It’s SecureSearchPro.com.
 Hugh: That’s better.
 Steve: We have SafeguardfromAbuse.com.
 Hugh: You have been talking about databases, and people can do a database search. Say more about that for people who don’t know what you mean by “database.” I think of a database as where I keep my CRM, where I keep my contacts. Say more about that and why it doesn’t really cut the mustard.
 Steve: Okay. A lot of people think that there is one central place to go to do a background check in the United States. Just go to the FBI. They think there is something in some place to go. That is a fallacy. We are a disparate country. Our systems do not communicate with each other. What you have in Colorado doesn’t communicate with what’s in Virginia with what’s in Florida, even though we think that’s the case. Another fallacy is that a social security number is all you need to find a criminal record. We don’t find any criminal records using a social security number. That’s a myth. We use the social security number to find out what the person might be: what names they have used, what addresses they may have used, information sources.
 The databases, because we have this disparate system where counties don’t communicate with states sometimes and counties don’t even communicate with each other, all of these groups work in silos. Their information or their data is also stuck in that silo. You have to search that silo to find that information. In some cases, these silos of information raise their hands and say they will share. There are companies called data aggregators to say, I will pull from this county, I will pull from that county, and this department of corrections wants to give me that information. They compile it all together. They go out to my industry and say, “Do you want to buy my information?” I was talking about having three of these aggregators that I purchase information from and weave it all together because they will miss some in one and miss some in another and I am hoping I can fill in some of the gaps. This is not 100%. Again, it’s that net with holes. It’s as good as it gets. We search over a billion records, but there are so many holes and gaps in this data. That is where the database comes in; it’s a base of data. There will be holes that you can’t rely on as your only search.
 We can consult on the best approach. The best approach is you have to look at three different things. First, your due diligence, why you do what you do, why you want to screen in the first place. Do you want to protect the vulnerable? Is it because your insurance company made you do it? I don’t care what it is. We have to understand what the impetus of your diligence is.
 Then we need to look at your organizational budget and say what budget dollars do you have to work with. Do you need to go find more budget dollars from another bucket in order to cover something like this? You want to implement it as soon as possible.
 The third is your comfort for risk, or your risk tolerance. That is already comfortable with your organization name being in a newspaper because you didn’t do a background check, and now you brought in a pedophile into your organization. Or does that make you cringe and keep you awake at night? What does your legal counsel say? What does your insurance company say?
 We need to bring those three things together and create a unique, sustainable program for your organization. That may be very different from the organization I talk to tomorrow. That’s okay. It’s unique to you and sustainable and something you’re comfortable with and can move forward with in your organization.
 A long answer for a simple question.
 Hugh: It’s a complex question, a complex situation. I have met people who think they can just Google somebody’s name and find out all kinds of things. What’s the fallacy in that strategy?
 Steve: Did you have consent to do it, first of all? Every applicant has their legal rights. They have to provide you consent to really do a background check on them, especially if you want to use it. If you just want to be the armchair neighbor and check in on a neighbor, you have the legal right to do so. If you are going to bring this individual on board and have them fill out paperwork to be a volunteer or member of the staff, you have to get their consent. You can’t just go to Google. The data out there is only as good as the data out there. If you’re not buying it and it’s free, there is a reason it’s free. If you’re spending $59.99 to get the rest of the report, they gave you a little bit, and the rest of it is behind the scenes, that is just database information, and that is way more than you ever need to pay. You need to do a database search for only $15. It’s something you need, and something you need to build on, so you want to make sure you make it affordable on the database side so you can grow it and add the county courthouse searches as necessary.
 Russell: There are some things out there that are robust. I have probably used some of the things as a revenue agent for IRS. It’s not off the shelf, and it’s not cheap by any means, but it’s good stuff. It’s important to do that. You get what you pay for. A lot of these databases that you describe pop up if you do an online directory search for the Yellow Pages, or something like that. These things get offered to you all the time.
 Steve: It’s the free data available to everyone that they compile. Not everything is going to be in there as I mentioned. It will be fraught with holes. They make it look good. They put a shiny website together, and you see moving parts. It’s like they are searching as deep as they can go, and I will get every tidbit of information I need in seconds on one of these companies. You have to be careful with what you do. Everything needs to be validated at the local level. Anything from the database, any red flag, has to be validated at the court or the point of origin of the information to be accurate; otherwise, you are not supposed to see it anyway. That is why you want to work with a consumer reporting agency. SecureSearch is a consumer reporting agency. We are a member of concern consuming reporter agency, making sure we do it the right way and making sure we do validate everything at the local level before you as the customer gets to see that information.
 Hugh: We are coming to the last part of our interview, Steve. SecureSearchPro.com is where people can find out more. What is the differentiator? What makes this business different? You mentioned there are lots of others out there. Why are you different from them?
 Steve: That’s a good question. The first thing is the information we have to share with you is through years of experience. We have veterans in the industry on staff who run our customer service department, who run our operations, and who run the executive office. That’s number one, lots of experience.
 Two is we have a heart for the nonprofit sector because we understand you are wearing many hats. You don’t have time, and you may not have the skillsets. You can feel comfortable with us. We are going to answer the phone. We will talk to you. You won’t be alone in this process. We will be there to answer any questions you may have throughout the process, and you will have someone you can work with, whether it be me, you can always work with me directly, or anyone on my staff.
 We also don’t have a single salesperson on staff, so you will never be “sold” anything. We only have consultants, so we will be asking you questions and making you recommendations for best practices. You won’t hear from us five million times; we won’t pound you until you buy. We wait to hear from you again if you’d like to do this with us. That is what makes us different.
 We have a heart for the nonprofit, the integrity of our data we are purchasing, and the integrity of the system we have and the compliance of our system and processes is what set us apart.
 Hugh: That’s strong. It sounds like this service is incredibly expensive, thousands of dollars, to do a background check. Is that true?
 Steve: No, that’s actually very far from true. Depends on the organization you’re working with. Our pricing model is geared toward the nonprofit sector, so we are extremely affordable. We actually have scalable pricing for those who have high volume discount programs. A background check, I would say that a good budget, if you want to do it right, for the criminal and sex offender and fill in all the gaps, is budget for $50 a person. It doesn’t mean it will always cost $50 a person; it may cost $15 for some, $22 for another, or $85 for another. It could be all over the board. But I would budget that to make sure you have enough allocated funds for a good solid program.
 A lot of people are going to ask if they need to do background checks through the fingerprint process, too. No, you don’t. You can get good information that is disposition-based. Disposition is what happened in court, information from a secure search without ever having to do fingerprints. If you are getting government funding or state funding, they may make it mandatory, so you have to do it. But we can still make sure that the fingerprint arrest record—and that’s all it is, an arrest information source with biometrics, and not everybody gets fingerprinted when they get arrested—that the courts dismissed it or said it was a guilty verdict and enhance the arrest record database you search.
 Hugh: Good. Thank you for that complete answer. This has been a very informative interview, and I’m sitting here thinking about all the organizations that I know about that have fallen short. We are going to make sure we will put a recommendation in our work that they do this early on. I think it’s that important.
 As we are tying up this really good interview—Steve, thank you for the time today. It’s been exceptional—what impression, what challenge, what thought do you want to leave in people’s minds?
 Steve: I guess my question is: What image do you have of your own organization? How do you look at your own organization? Do your process and your people align with it? If you are worried about that and you want to lower your risk and your liabilities as an organization and maintain the image you want to have of your own organization, it doesn’t cost a lot of money, it doesn’t take a lot of time, you don’t have to learn how to do it. We do everything for you. Just reach out to us. There is no charge to sign up or for a free consultation. Talk to one of our advocates. We’re here to help; we’re not here to sell. We hope to hear from you. It’s something you should definitely take a look at. If you’re doing the background checks now, we can talk about if you are doing them the right way. If you’re not doing them, we can help you along the path.
 Hugh: Russell, thanks again for being here and being by my side. Steve, thank you for a wonderful interview. Thanks everyone for listening.
 Steve: Thank you very much.
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      <pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2018 00:31:15 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7e5cd4cc-b329-11eb-9f0f-e36f6629d744/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Learn What to Do from Steve Durie</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Interview with Steve Durie
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. Another episode of The Nonprofit Exchange live, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. Russell, how are you doing today out there in beautiful Colorado?
 Russell Dennis: After a snowfall last night, the sun has come back out. Everything is beautiful out here in Colorado.
 Hugh: Love it. People on the podcast can’t see it, but you’ve got a shiny head. Is that part of the sign, or is that just the light over your head?
 Russell: All of this glare helps keep the focus off of the shadow here with all of the gray hair in it, so there is a method to my madness shining the light here.
 Hugh: I see that. Russell, the real person. We have a guest who is also a resident of Colorado, but he is a new resident of Florida. We are going to hear from him in just a minute. Today’s topic is protecting your culture by doing effective vetting of the people you’re bringing in, be it volunteers or paid staff. Steve Durie, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Steve Durie: Thank you, Hugh. It’s good to be here.
 Hugh: So good to have you. Tell us a little bit about yourself, some background, and how did you arrive at what you’re doing now? Why is it important to you?
 Steve: I have been doing this for 15 years. Where it started was when I was actually volunteering in youth organizations with my kids. My question was: Aren’t you going to run a background check on me? They’re like, No, we don’t do that. We trust everyone. Previous to that, I had a lot of database experience in a consulting company in consulting on justice projects, that is, how to share criminal data. I took that knowledge about sharing criminal data and my passion for keeping my own kids safe and know that I was going to be working as a volunteer and turned it into a business 15 years ago. My kids are a little older now, and my wife Laura and I have a special needs son. He is an adult; he is 31. But he is also extremely vulnerable and needs protection. He doesn’t live at home anymore. And that is a constant worry about Tommy, whether the people who are working alongside him are safe. It does transcend not just our children in their youth, but into any vulnerable population. That is a broad brushstroke is anybody who is vulnerable, and we can look at each group individually as to how to best screen someone and check them out if we are working with children, youth, or vulnerable adults, or elderly, or single people. There are a lot of different. Vulnerable populations who may need our work.
 Hugh: Absolutely. It’s really good to know about people. In the work that Russell and I do through SynerVision, we help people build their strategy out. Part of that is competencies. We have created a new paradigm that replaces the position description, and the first of four colors is the competency. When you look at somebody’s competency, you also want to do a background check so that you can validate what is on their resume, that they actually do that. Are there some hidden things in there? Finding out about the people. What is their performance going to be?
 Role and responsibility? If it’s financial, there is another level of compliance. I used to live in a town of 30,000, and one year, there were two nonprofits that had treasurers make away with $750,000, trusted friends and community members. They didn’t do an adequate background check or have safeguards in place.
 The third color is the culture fit. If somebody has a history of conflict or abuse, you don’t really want them spoiling your culture.
 The fourth color is expectations, but the vetting the person, competency, not only are they clean, but they also fit the culture. There are lots of reasons in any kind of enterprise to do the background check. I think it’s especially important when we are dealing with people who are compromised, like your son, like children, like older adults. There are lots of opportunities for people to abuse the system. You have worked with nonprofits so far, have you?
 Steve: Our focus of the company SecureSearch is with the nonprofit community. It’s been over 15 years; we have served over 10,000 nonprofits as their partner for screening their staff, their volunteers, and their board of directors. We are a full-service company. We can do anything, from resume verification to child awareness for those who work with children.
 Hugh: Resume verification. I heard a guy one time, and his resume said he went to Yale and studied finance. I found out later he didn’t graduate. People make up things on their resume. That’s a new piece of data.
 Are nonprofits any more vulnerable than for-profits? Is there an attitude of difference there? You told a story about you being a volunteer, and you ask about the background check. They said we trust people. Do you find that to be more common than not?
 Steve: I find that to be pretty common in the nonprofit culture where they are really hungry for people to serve and to help. With that, sometimes they actually push aside the fact that these people may have a nefarious past. They are looking to quickly onboard them, get them into a position. They are happy to have a warm body. They are happy to have the skillset the individual brings to the table. Referred by a close friend or family member, so they are not even thinking about screening them, especially if they are not working directly with a child. When they are working with a child, it’s more in our consciousness that we should put the best people with these kids to keep in faith. But what about people who are just working alongside one another? The workplace violence conflict. We need to focus on making all of our communities and all of the workplaces as safe as possible. It’s the responsibility of the organization to do so. But nonprofits, because of their compromised budgets in some cases, they are spending their money elsewhere to maybe grow their projects and they are not really thinking about the people, if they are safe in the environment they are working in. In corporate America, it is common, and in the nonprofit arena, it is not as common. We are here as a voice to raise the awareness that everybody should be doing this, whether you have one employee or thousands.
 Hugh: You and I met at a conference last week, CEO Space. Had I met you—I came in late in the week because I had conflicts—and said, “Hey Steve, what is it that you do?” and you say, “I do background searches,” and I say, “I have a nonprofit. Why is it important for me to do that?” How would you respond to me?
 Steve: As a nonprofit?
 Hugh: If I say, “I have a nonprofit. Why is it important for me to do that?”
 Steve: You touched on this. It’s about reducing risk and reducing liability. Liability is big. It all ties into the overall image in the community they’re serving. It’s protecting their image. It doesn’t have to be their first priority. The first priority is protecting those who are part of their organization. You have to look at the entire hierarchy of your staff from your board of directors down to your volunteers. Oftentimes, there are people in between the upper board and the volunteers who are just coming on who get missed. They didn’t think it was important to screen them. Really it’s about lowering your liability and lowering your risk, or at least managing your risk. You can’t be a risk-free organization; that doesn’t exist. It’s about, how do you take steps and utilize your budget dollars to minimize your risk as much as you possibly can?
 Hugh: Russell, you and I interface with a lot of nonprofit leaders and boards. I find there is a lot of boards that aren’t up to speed on how to be the board. They think about being in charge of governance sometimes. They sometimes realize they are responsible for financial oversight. I don’t think boards realize they have a liability whatever happens. Do you find, Russell, in your work that boards are blind to this element as well?
 Russell: I have talked to people who really don’t have a core grasp of the notion of having liability insurance for the board of directors officers as they are putting these things together. They don’t understand how critical that is and what risks are involved. A large part of the problem is people don’t know what they don’t know. Nonprofit leaders, these are people centered in the idea of making the world a better place and service to others. They are more prone to take people at their word as opposed to doing any sort of digging. They may not think there is a big risk associated with bringing a person on. It’s nice to be able to take people at their word, but it depends on what kind of work you’re doing, who you’re serving, the assets of your organization you’re protecting. It never occurs to people there may be a scurvy elephant roaming around the zoo. You have to have a look at who you’re dealing with. People aren’t always who they say they are. That is just the reality of it. It’s important to look at these things up front because if you don’t have a person who is not in integrity in there in the first place, you don’t have to figure out how to get rid of them later on when you could have problems. The reputation of your organization could be at stake. You just have these horror stories. There was a veterans’ organization a few years ago that saw their reputation fall apart because the CEO was playing games with the books. Always you have to think in terms of protecting yourself with your regulations, with internal controls, with the way money and other assets are handled. More important, how you deal with the people you serve. You can really get in a lot of trouble easily and quickly without in the least bit intending to.
 Hugh: Steve, did that shake loose any thoughts for you?
 Steve: Yeah, it actually did. I do believe that nonprofits feel that the people they bring in have the heart for what they do. If they have a heart for what they do, then they are probably good people. I really think that is a mistake a lot of them make. Taking that assumption because they say they believe in what you believe in, they have the passion for what you have a passion for, that doesn’t mean they have the same background you have. A lot of people are trying to use their influence they currently have in the community, it could be a leader in the community, to find their way into a vulnerable group. That is the MO of a pedophile is to build up trust in everybody around them, including building themselves up to be leaders in the community so that everybody seems to trust them, and that is when they can get to the vulnerable children and build relationships without anybody thinking twice about it.
 Screening is not going to catch everybody, only if they have been arrested or convicted of something in the past. It’s only one part of the puzzle for keeping not only your organization safe, but those that you serve. It goes much more beyond the background check. I don’t think anyone can feel that they have that warm fuzzy feeling now that I have implemented background checks. I’m good, I got a green check mark for that person, I can just let them go. That is a wrong approach. You really need to have a conscious community around that everybody is the eyes and ears of the organization. We all have to keep our eyes on who we’re working alongside. If they are doing something we believe is incorrect or harmful to the organization or to those who serve, to make sure we all feel empowered to report those things, especially for physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, sexual harassment, whatever you might see. It’s up to us to report it.
 Hugh: There is another realm that Russell talked about with having your policies and procedures up to date. You just pointed out, we have to pay attention. That is part of our responsibility as a leader to see what is in front of us. I never realized people who are—and it makes sense if you talk about it—a pedophile positions themselves in a place of trust and then continues to validate that, so they throw people off guard. No, it couldn’t possibly be true. I have known people in that position before, and they were busted. Eventually you got caught. How long does it take and how many people do you hurt in the process? At least do your background check, which also helps relieve your liability. I’m sure some of the companies that Russell talked about that issue board insurance require a background check so they have less liability.
 I didn’t warn you: When Russell comes in, he asks you the hard questions. I’ll ask you easier ones first while he formulates the hard ones.
 Give us an example where people were trusting, and it really created damage. Then you came in and maybe you helped them get a process in place to prevent it in the future. Without naming names, what are the kinds of things that people should be alert to?  
 Steve: There are so many stories. Some have been recently in the news that everybody is aware of. One is USA Gymnastics with Dr. Nassau. Building trust, not only from the organization, but with the parents of these young children in the gymnastics program, and then going on to abuse them for years without ever getting caught. Sandusky at Penn State, same thing. He was able to testify with his peers that showering with young boys was just about cleanliness. They are always going to try to lie about who they are and have somebody believe it. They are masters at it. They never take any responsibility for their actions. It’s that narcissistic behavior on the pedophile side.
 Another story has nothing to do with a criminal record. This was a nonprofit organization that had drivers and they were doing deliveries. One of the individuals when we met with them, and we were on site for this one, he was in the state of Colorado, but he had a Tennessee drivers’ license. He said he had been here for four years. I asked him why didn’t he have a Colorado license. He said that he lost his license in Colorado from too many speeding tickets, so he had to go to my parent’s house in Tennessee to get a license. He is volunteering for an organization that drives one of their vehicles.
 People can get around from their past and get away from their past, whether it’s criminal behavior or not. It could be resume fudging. That happens more than you know, especially for certain positions, for executive director positions, finance positions, COO type positions, where they can say they have a Master’s degree in finance. They really just have a Bachelor’s, or they never finished college. They put it on their resume for years, and nobody questioned it. There are stories where the CEO of RadioShack, and RadioShack is falling from grace, but the CEO never had his Master’s degree in business, never had his MBA. It was a reporter who figured it out and started reporting on it. Then he resigned or got let go.
 Same thing with the president of the business school of Harvard. She had miscommunicated on her resume that she had a Ph. D, and she never did. Organizations that we all know about and have heard about, down to around the corner with businesses in your neighborhood or possibly even your organization. It’s important to vet the higher-end positions in your organization. It’s not just about the volunteers. I can go on forever about why it’s important for the volunteers, but anybody working in your office, making sure you are looking at embezzlement or money laundering or anything that deals with your budget, your finances, your books, make sure those are always intact and that you are bringing on the best people.
 Background checks don’t always catch everybody. They may never have been arrested before. I am going to go back to what Hugh was talking about with the pedophile. Eventually they get caught. That’s not true. They never get caught, and they die with their secrets. The average pedophile molests 137 children in their lifetime without ever getting arrested for it. That is where the training is more important than the background check and being aware and keeping their eyes open.
 Hugh: Wow. I guess there is some people who will be polite and they think it’s not polite to do a background check. Have you come across that? How do you respond to that?
 Steve: For the last 15 years, we have dealt with that. I don’t know exactly where that really stems from other than they feel like it’s unkind to ask someone to sign a consent form to do a background check. They are giving of their time, and I feel like I am invading their privacy if I ask them for this information. But you have to think about your organization and its reputation and why you have that organization set up in the first place. Then you have to make sure you bring on the best people. You just need to frame it differently: we are a culture of safety instead of just being haphazard about who we bring on. I think that everybody who comes on board would feel more confident with the person sitting next to them, with the person they are running an errand with to Office Depot if they are going in the same vehicle together. You will have a higher level of confidence that the organization did the right thing before you came.
 Hugh: Where is the person who said, “Oh, I don’t want to be impolite to them,” so they back down from not realizing they are being impolite to everyone else in the culture. I don’t want to make trouble, but if they don’t do that, they will make trouble for everybody else.
 What about the person who says, “I don’t have time for that?” That sounds like too much trouble.
 Steve: The one issue with nonprofits is wearing so many hats and being so busy. I think that sometimes the background check seems like a daunting task, especially if they have never done them. First, I have to vet a company. I don’t know where to go to trust somebody. I don’t want to do all the paperwork. I have enough things going on. I don’t even understand background checks. How am I going to do this? I don’t have a Human Resources background, nor do I have a HR director on staff.
 That is where SecureSearch makes it a little unique. We can come in understanding that that is one of your pain points on not having enough people to do all of the tasks you have to do. We made everything paperless. Not only are the consent forms, but also the entire process of signing up is paperless. Everything is the click of a button. The applicants, whether they be your board of directors, staff, or volunteers, they do all of the data entry. All you’re doing is sending an email invitation. Simple as that.
 Hugh: Wow. If I came to you and said I have ten volunteers and I need to take them through a background check, then you’d give me a consent form for them to sign, with permission to do that.
 Steve: The way you phrased that is interesting, that you give them a consent form. It’s actually against the law for us to provide a template consent form. We provide samples. All consent forms are the organization’s form. It’s not my form. We provide a sample, but it is really up to each organization to go through legal counsel and make sure everything is in there that needs to be in there and that it meets their federal and state laws. We try to do our best with our samples to make sure they are good, but you should only use that as a framework.
 Hugh: Before you can do the background check, I have to have them sign a form though.
 Steve: Yes. That form can be in paper, or it can be through our paperless volunteer and applicant portal that is called Search My Background that we have. If everything is in the portal electronically, and they sign a signature box either with their finger on a mobile device or the mouse of their computer. That signature will map to all the documents in the system so that everything is signed and everything is provided to the applicant.
 Hugh: Where I was headed with that, and I thank you for the clarification on the language, where I was headed with that is I would say I have my ten volunteers and I need to run them through the process. Would you suggest to me that I do it on myself as well?
 Steve: Well, somebody should run one on you. But if you want to at least have something in the “file,” whether it be a digital file or a file folder in a lockable filing cabinet, having your own in there is a good idea, especially to report to the board that if you are the executive director, it started with you. Sometimes you can be surprised on what you might see on your own.
 We had an executive director in Minnesota who had a small nonprofit. I think it was five or ten volunteers based on what he told me over the phone. This was quite a few years ago. When I was small enough and able to see the background checks coming in on a regular basis, I pulled it open and said, “Oh, I talked to that gentleman on the phone.” He signed up and ran his background check; he had three pages of felonies on his own. He never ran another background check with us. I think he was curious as to if his own background check would come up and expose him as a customer. There was nothing I could do to share it with the greater group of that organization. There is a lot of risk out there. It can start with that executive director. I don’t think the executive director should be the one running the background check; it should be pushed by the board that the executive director have a background check.
 Hugh: Absolutely. Nobody should be exempt from it. Everybody should go through it. The founder, the executive director.
 Steve: Everybody.
 Hugh: Great. We are almost halfway through this interview. Russell, I’m sure that you have formulated a great question for our guest.
 Russell: As I was saying earlier, a lot of people don’t know what they don’t know. I think it starts with going from a place of what do I know, what have I been told, what don’t I know, and where did the information I get come from? How do I know what I know?
 I think my first question would be all quality information. How can you get quality information to make sure that what you’re hearing can be verified?
 Steve: That is a really good question. There are a lot of background screening companies in the U.S, thousands really. Everybody approaches business differently. Some are very small, that concept of working out of your garage, and they might not have a website. They might be in it just for the profit. There are lots of different data points to put together a good background check. The problem I see with the nonprofit side is they are learning on these database products to be the be-all end-all product because it’s fast and it’s inexpensive. They think because somebody might be calling it a national search that it truly is. But it isn’t. I like to think of the database searches as a net. If you can picture the map of the United States and now you’re casting this net across the United States, what is the net made up of? Holes strung together is the way I’d like to put it.
 I want you to remember that while it might be national—we call it multi-state—there are going to be holes. In some areas of this net there will be tears and huge holes versus tightly knit holes in other areas. You have this product that a lot of the nonprofits like to order because they think it’s national, they think it’s an easy, inexpensive way to launch into the background checks, and they don’t realize the risks that are still going to be there. They are not conducting what we call a best-in-class background check. Nonprofits have to be careful.
 To answer your question about data, we take three different aggregation data points from the database and merge them together, eliminating the duplicate points. Other companies will buy data from these aggregate groups of data, and they will hang it on their own internal servers and ping against that data for months before they refresh it. That’s how you get the $2 background checks for some of these large nonprofits. I’m not saying everybody does it, but in order to reduce the cost to meet what an expectation might be for a nonprofit, which is cheap, these organizations are going to give you bad and old data.
 We refresh our data every week, in some cases like the sex offender registries, for some every two weeks. But the oldest refresh we have is 30 days for our entire database. Again, it’s a merge of three different data points coming together. We didn’t get into this business primarily to make a profit; we got into this business to protect those who need to be protected.
 Russell: That’s it. It’s setting that intention right up front. When you talk to people, you have to set an intention up front about what it is you’re doing. When you talk to people who might be new that we need to help, but understand we are going to be looking into some things, asking you questions for the sake of transparency, and direct about it. Who, what, when, where, why, and how? We keep our questions as open in that way as we can so that we get some meaningful information. I think that people who have things to hide may balk a little bit at this directness. Somebody is fidgeting, and they are talking about how much time this is taking, why you need to know that. In my head, that will be a red flag. What say you?
 Steve: A hidden benefit of the background check implementation is the bad ones kind of leave in the guise of night. They don’t come back tomorrow. You actually said, “Hey, we take it seriously, we are going to have a consent form for you to sign. We will call your references. We will check in on who you say you are.”
 That’s another thing, references. If you are not calling references, whether you outsource it to an organization, I recommend doing it internally so you can hear the nuance of the phone, the pregnant pauses of someone being asked, “Is this somebody you would bring back into your organization if you could?” and they go, “Hmm, well, I don’t know about that.” If you outsource that, it’s hard for somebody to put that into words on a report. I recommend if you have the time to do it yourself. If you have the money, you can outsource it. References are just as important as the background check. The background checks of course can be criminal. They can also verify your resume, education, employment. It’s not always just looking at their criminal records, but making sure they are who they say they are.
 Hugh: While you are on that track, what kinds of background checks are there? Go over that again.
 Steve: There are lots of different types of background checks. We want to get nonprofit organizations to stop thinking about using the database just for looking for a criminal or a sex offender. Because of the analogy I used with the net with all the larger holes and tears, you need to look at each applicant holistically. Instead of where your organization is serving or based and the geography and how that might look in a database search, you need to look at the applicant.
 John could be a resident of one place for his whole life, and Mary has lived in seven different places in seven years. Mary, you are going to have to do more on because there are possibilities that the database has missed where Mary lives, they weren’t up to date, and you are going to add a county courthouse search or a statewide repository search if it exists, like it does in Colorado. Other states have that, too. You are going to need to start with a foundation and then lay additional due diligence on top of that to get a good profile for each applicant instead of one size fits all.
 The criminal side, you break out into two different things. We have state and local crimes that you find in a database. You have the sex offender crimes that are in the sex offender registry. Then you will have crimes against the federal government or federal-related crimes. A lot of people think of these as the white-collar crimes, the Bernie Madoffs or the Martha Stewart crime where she got involved in the stocks. Yes, but inter-state kidnapping is also a federal crime. Money laundering and profiteering is a federal crime. Any building on federal lands. A lot of organizations and companies lately neglect ordering a federal criminal search. That can come back to bite them if they don’t search it.
 There are a lot of other things, too. Motor vehicle searches, I mentioned. Credit reports we can do. You can do the education verification. International criminal and credit. Motor vehicles. We have 165 different services available to any organization, and most organizations look at about five.
 Russell:What are some of the training opportunities? Part of the challenge is training nonprofit leaders or other people about what the benefits are and the dangers of neglecting to do due diligence. In other words, what are the things that you’re doing to assist people to understand the value of it so that they actually have this awareness? It’s one thing to bring somebody in. Somebody could slide under the radar after you have done your search. Maybe something changes. People need to have an idea of what sort of things they need to look out for to make sure that everything is good. What training do you folks give nonprofits an opportunity to take advantage of so that they have a better sense of when they may need some help digging into something?
 Steve: We actually have a very specific training program that I actually founded. It’s called Safeguard from Abuse. With a focus on the vulnerable populations that a lot of nonprofits focus their energy into those communities, it is a 75-minute online and also on a DVD training program with a certificate of understanding for those that pass the test on all of the different types of abuse, not just the sexual abuse, but neglect, physical, and emotional abuse, diving deep into what they are, diving deep into how to recognize when a child is being abused. So many organizations have that fear of having a sexual predator in their midst, so we do focus more time and attention in their personality traits, their grooming behaviors, understanding the personality of that pedophile.
 The most important thing is raising the awareness overall through the training, but empowering each person who goes through the video to be a mandated reporter and to understand that they can’t help if they put their head in the sand. They have to be empowered to report, and they have to understand how to do so is very important. The awareness training is important.
 My example that I like to use is Russell, you want to buy a new car. You have a brand of car in mind, and you’re getting in that car and heading down the road. All of a sudden, you start to see that car everywhere. It’s now in your awareness. It’s always been there, just like the characteristics of people who harm kids. They’re still doing it in front of us; we’re just not aware of it. We didn’t raise our awareness level high enough to see what’s always been there but invisible to the eye. It’s really what we focus on is what we see. What we focus on we become as well. We want to make sure that we can train enough people to end child abuse, or at least if we can save one child, it’s all worth it.
 Russell: Every time you buy a new car, everybody buys the same make, model, and color that very same day. I was thinking about all of these things. There are people who are listening to this, and they may be leaning back in their chairs thinking, No, I never did any of this stuff up front. Now I have 60 people. How do I know that I don’t have somebody like this in my midst right now? Is there some type of organizational audit or assessment that you can do?
 Steve: We can definitely help. What you’re saying is I gotta go retro. I have to go back to day one, and anybody who is still with me, screen them. That seems like an invasion maybe, or a daunting task, or maybe you’re just thinking, I’ll start with the next person. Now you will set yourself up for some difficulties being fair and equitable. If it’s just Susan who just walked in the door but you did not go back five years ago and do this, once you implement the strategy, you have to implement it at any level and go back and do everybody. Starting top down is a good approach. Start at the top, and push down through the hierarchy of individuals in your organization. It’s about resetting the reason for why you’re doing it. You are resetting the fact that you have this new program that you’re implementing. Our insurance company wants us to do it. Most insurance companies want you to do it anyway. If you have to put it on something else, you can just say it’s a new requirement. It could be just your organization’s requirement. Once it’s a new requirement, it’s a requirement. Everybody has to do it.
 Russell: Having everybody do it ensures that you don’t have somebody out there who wants to take you to court saying they’re being singled out because I’m a woman or I’m black or I’m over 50, or just anything they can pull out to say why it doesn’t apply. We talked about that comfort level that people have. I don’t want to offend or put anybody out. How do you help people who decide to do something like that do it in the face of the apprehension that they may have and the fear of offending somebody, implementing it seamlessly? What are some of the things you do to help people through that?
 Steve: That’s a good question. We help organizations put together a background screening policy. It’s all about policies. Sometimes you might have a policy- With those who work with kids, you might have a child protection policy, for example. But even in that child protection policy, they don’t talk about background checks. So we need to weave in another layer of policy, and that is who do we screen, why do we screen them, how often do we screen them, and what do we order? Really it comes down to being comfortable enough with your organization and communicating that you do have policies. It’s part of your mission and vision, wherever it is that it fits in, to make it that important. You can make it unimportant and be at risk and have everyone at risk, or you can make it important and be an advocate for safety and make your organization. It’s all about preserving that organization. Amp up your image; it will help you and the community.
 Hugh: Both of you are talking about people not knowing what they don’t know. There is a side that people are so close to it, you’re so involved in it, that you’re so blind to it because you are focusing on the day-to-day and the relationships. You’re blind to all of the liabilities. Having someone like you that is skilled to discuss policy procedure with I think is really a high benefit. Is that part of your service that you offer?
 Steve: We offer that at no charge. Phone call conversations, any time someone wants to talk to me. It’s very individual. Each organization is very individual, and I can’t just say, Here is a template. We like to discuss what your organization looks like, the different roles and responsibilities you might have, the silos you may have, the offshoots of your organization you may have, and drill down. Like I mentioned, it’s not a one-size-fits-all. Based on roles and responsibilities, you will be ordering different types of services. You may order motor vehicle for one, you may need to look at a credit report for one, but it won’t be for all. We want to make sure that you understand that as an organization, what’s available first of all, why you should order it, and then implement it. Now it’s part of your policy manual, and now it can be handed off if you were to leave the organization. If you are in charge of this role, and now you are leaving or retiring to go do something else, you can now hand it off to someone else and they won’t have to reinvent the wheel. It’s important to do it on the front end, but we’ll help.
 Hugh: Your link for people to find you is SecureSearch.com?
 Steve: It’s actually not. I wish I had that. It’s SecureSearchPro.com.
 Hugh: That’s better.
 Steve: We have SafeguardfromAbuse.com.
 Hugh: You have been talking about databases, and people can do a database search. Say more about that for people who don’t know what you mean by “database.” I think of a database as where I keep my CRM, where I keep my contacts. Say more about that and why it doesn’t really cut the mustard.
 Steve: Okay. A lot of people think that there is one central place to go to do a background check in the United States. Just go to the FBI. They think there is something in some place to go. That is a fallacy. We are a disparate country. Our systems do not communicate with each other. What you have in Colorado doesn’t communicate with what’s in Virginia with what’s in Florida, even though we think that’s the case. Another fallacy is that a social security number is all you need to find a criminal record. We don’t find any criminal records using a social security number. That’s a myth. We use the social security number to find out what the person might be: what names they have used, what addresses they may have used, information sources.
 The databases, because we have this disparate system where counties don’t communicate with states sometimes and counties don’t even communicate with each other, all of these groups work in silos. Their information or their data is also stuck in that silo. You have to search that silo to find that information. In some cases, these silos of information raise their hands and say they will share. There are companies called data aggregators to say, I will pull from this county, I will pull from that county, and this department of corrections wants to give me that information. They compile it all together. They go out to my industry and say, “Do you want to buy my information?” I was talking about having three of these aggregators that I purchase information from and weave it all together because they will miss some in one and miss some in another and I am hoping I can fill in some of the gaps. This is not 100%. Again, it’s that net with holes. It’s as good as it gets. We search over a billion records, but there are so many holes and gaps in this data. That is where the database comes in; it’s a base of data. There will be holes that you can’t rely on as your only search.
 We can consult on the best approach. The best approach is you have to look at three different things. First, your due diligence, why you do what you do, why you want to screen in the first place. Do you want to protect the vulnerable? Is it because your insurance company made you do it? I don’t care what it is. We have to understand what the impetus of your diligence is.
 Then we need to look at your organizational budget and say what budget dollars do you have to work with. Do you need to go find more budget dollars from another bucket in order to cover something like this? You want to implement it as soon as possible.
 The third is your comfort for risk, or your risk tolerance. That is already comfortable with your organization name being in a newspaper because you didn’t do a background check, and now you brought in a pedophile into your organization. Or does that make you cringe and keep you awake at night? What does your legal counsel say? What does your insurance company say?
 We need to bring those three things together and create a unique, sustainable program for your organization. That may be very different from the organization I talk to tomorrow. That’s okay. It’s unique to you and sustainable and something you’re comfortable with and can move forward with in your organization.
 A long answer for a simple question.
 Hugh: It’s a complex question, a complex situation. I have met people who think they can just Google somebody’s name and find out all kinds of things. What’s the fallacy in that strategy?
 Steve: Did you have consent to do it, first of all? Every applicant has their legal rights. They have to provide you consent to really do a background check on them, especially if you want to use it. If you just want to be the armchair neighbor and check in on a neighbor, you have the legal right to do so. If you are going to bring this individual on board and have them fill out paperwork to be a volunteer or member of the staff, you have to get their consent. You can’t just go to Google. The data out there is only as good as the data out there. If you’re not buying it and it’s free, there is a reason it’s free. If you’re spending $59.99 to get the rest of the report, they gave you a little bit, and the rest of it is behind the scenes, that is just database information, and that is way more than you ever need to pay. You need to do a database search for only $15. It’s something you need, and something you need to build on, so you want to make sure you make it affordable on the database side so you can grow it and add the county courthouse searches as necessary.
 Russell: There are some things out there that are robust. I have probably used some of the things as a revenue agent for IRS. It’s not off the shelf, and it’s not cheap by any means, but it’s good stuff. It’s important to do that. You get what you pay for. A lot of these databases that you describe pop up if you do an online directory search for the Yellow Pages, or something like that. These things get offered to you all the time.
 Steve: It’s the free data available to everyone that they compile. Not everything is going to be in there as I mentioned. It will be fraught with holes. They make it look good. They put a shiny website together, and you see moving parts. It’s like they are searching as deep as they can go, and I will get every tidbit of information I need in seconds on one of these companies. You have to be careful with what you do. Everything needs to be validated at the local level. Anything from the database, any red flag, has to be validated at the court or the point of origin of the information to be accurate; otherwise, you are not supposed to see it anyway. That is why you want to work with a consumer reporting agency. SecureSearch is a consumer reporting agency. We are a member of concern consuming reporter agency, making sure we do it the right way and making sure we do validate everything at the local level before you as the customer gets to see that information.
 Hugh: We are coming to the last part of our interview, Steve. SecureSearchPro.com is where people can find out more. What is the differentiator? What makes this business different? You mentioned there are lots of others out there. Why are you different from them?
 Steve: That’s a good question. The first thing is the information we have to share with you is through years of experience. We have veterans in the industry on staff who run our customer service department, who run our operations, and who run the executive office. That’s number one, lots of experience.
 Two is we have a heart for the nonprofit sector because we understand you are wearing many hats. You don’t have time, and you may not have the skillsets. You can feel comfortable with us. We are going to answer the phone. We will talk to you. You won’t be alone in this process. We will be there to answer any questions you may have throughout the process, and you will have someone you can work with, whether it be me, you can always work with me directly, or anyone on my staff.
 We also don’t have a single salesperson on staff, so you will never be “sold” anything. We only have consultants, so we will be asking you questions and making you recommendations for best practices. You won’t hear from us five million times; we won’t pound you until you buy. We wait to hear from you again if you’d like to do this with us. That is what makes us different.
 We have a heart for the nonprofit, the integrity of our data we are purchasing, and the integrity of the system we have and the compliance of our system and processes is what set us apart.
 Hugh: That’s strong. It sounds like this service is incredibly expensive, thousands of dollars, to do a background check. Is that true?
 Steve: No, that’s actually very far from true. Depends on the organization you’re working with. Our pricing model is geared toward the nonprofit sector, so we are extremely affordable. We actually have scalable pricing for those who have high volume discount programs. A background check, I would say that a good budget, if you want to do it right, for the criminal and sex offender and fill in all the gaps, is budget for $50 a person. It doesn’t mean it will always cost $50 a person; it may cost $15 for some, $22 for another, or $85 for another. It could be all over the board. But I would budget that to make sure you have enough allocated funds for a good solid program.
 A lot of people are going to ask if they need to do background checks through the fingerprint process, too. No, you don’t. You can get good information that is disposition-based. Disposition is what happened in court, information from a secure search without ever having to do fingerprints. If you are getting government funding or state funding, they may make it mandatory, so you have to do it. But we can still make sure that the fingerprint arrest record—and that’s all it is, an arrest information source with biometrics, and not everybody gets fingerprinted when they get arrested—that the courts dismissed it or said it was a guilty verdict and enhance the arrest record database you search.
 Hugh: Good. Thank you for that complete answer. This has been a very informative interview, and I’m sitting here thinking about all the organizations that I know about that have fallen short. We are going to make sure we will put a recommendation in our work that they do this early on. I think it’s that important.
 As we are tying up this really good interview—Steve, thank you for the time today. It’s been exceptional—what impression, what challenge, what thought do you want to leave in people’s minds?
 Steve: I guess my question is: What image do you have of your own organization? How do you look at your own organization? Do your process and your people align with it? If you are worried about that and you want to lower your risk and your liabilities as an organization and maintain the image you want to have of your own organization, it doesn’t cost a lot of money, it doesn’t take a lot of time, you don’t have to learn how to do it. We do everything for you. Just reach out to us. There is no charge to sign up or for a free consultation. Talk to one of our advocates. We’re here to help; we’re not here to sell. We hope to hear from you. It’s something you should definitely take a look at. If you’re doing the background checks now, we can talk about if you are doing them the right way. If you’re not doing them, we can help you along the path.
 Hugh: Russell, thanks again for being here and being by my side. Steve, thank you for a wonderful interview. Thanks everyone for listening.
 Steve: Thank you very much.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Interview with Steve Durie</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. Another episode of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em> live, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. Russell, how are you doing today out there in beautiful Colorado?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> After a snowfall last night, the sun has come back out. Everything is beautiful out here in Colorado.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. People on the podcast can’t see it, but you’ve got a shiny head. Is that part of the sign, or is that just the light over your head?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> All of this glare helps keep the focus off of the shadow here with all of the gray hair in it, so there is a method to my madness shining the light here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I see that. Russell, the real person. We have a guest who is also a resident of Colorado, but he is a new resident of Florida. We are going to hear from him in just a minute. Today’s topic is protecting your culture by doing effective vetting of the people you’re bringing in, be it volunteers or paid staff. Steve Durie, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.</p> <p><strong>Steve Durie:</strong> Thank you, Hugh. It’s good to be here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> So good to have you. Tell us a little bit about yourself, some background, and how did you arrive at what you’re doing now? Why is it important to you?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> I have been doing this for 15 years. Where it started was when I was actually volunteering in youth organizations with my kids. My question was: Aren’t you going to run a background check on me? They’re like, No, we don’t do that. We trust everyone. Previous to that, I had a lot of database experience in a consulting company in consulting on justice projects, that is, how to share criminal data. I took that knowledge about sharing criminal data and my passion for keeping my own kids safe and know that I was going to be working as a volunteer and turned it into a business 15 years ago. My kids are a little older now, and my wife Laura and I have a special needs son. He is an adult; he is 31. But he is also extremely vulnerable and needs protection. He doesn’t live at home anymore. And that is a constant worry about Tommy, whether the people who are working alongside him are safe. It does transcend not just our children in their youth, but into any vulnerable population. That is a broad brushstroke is anybody who is vulnerable, and we can look at each group individually as to how to best screen someone and check them out if we are working with children, youth, or vulnerable adults, or elderly, or single people. There are a lot of different. Vulnerable populations who may need our work.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. It’s really good to know about people. In the work that Russell and I do through SynerVision, we help people build their strategy out. Part of that is competencies. We have created a new paradigm that replaces the position description, and the first of four colors is the competency. When you look at somebody’s competency, you also want to do a background check so that you can validate what is on their resume, that they actually do that. Are there some hidden things in there? Finding out about the people. What is their performance going to be?</p> <p>Role and responsibility? If it’s financial, there is another level of compliance. I used to live in a town of 30,000, and one year, there were two nonprofits that had treasurers make away with $750,000, trusted friends and community members. They didn’t do an adequate background check or have safeguards in place.</p> <p>The third color is the culture fit. If somebody has a history of conflict or abuse, you don’t really want them spoiling your culture.</p> <p>The fourth color is expectations, but the vetting the person, competency, not only are they clean, but they also fit the culture. There are lots of reasons in any kind of enterprise to do the background check. I think it’s especially important when we are dealing with people who are compromised, like your son, like children, like older adults. There are lots of opportunities for people to abuse the system. You have worked with nonprofits so far, have you?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> Our focus of the company SecureSearch is with the nonprofit community. It’s been over 15 years; we have served over 10,000 nonprofits as their partner for screening their staff, their volunteers, and their board of directors. We are a full-service company. We can do anything, from resume verification to child awareness for those who work with children.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Resume verification. I heard a guy one time, and his resume said he went to Yale and studied finance. I found out later he didn’t graduate. People make up things on their resume. That’s a new piece of data.</p> <p>Are nonprofits any more vulnerable than for-profits? Is there an attitude of difference there? You told a story about you being a volunteer, and you ask about the background check. They said we trust people. Do you find that to be more common than not?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> I find that to be pretty common in the nonprofit culture where they are really hungry for people to serve and to help. With that, sometimes they actually push aside the fact that these people may have a nefarious past. They are looking to quickly onboard them, get them into a position. They are happy to have a warm body. They are happy to have the skillset the individual brings to the table. Referred by a close friend or family member, so they are not even thinking about screening them, especially if they are not working directly with a child. When they are working with a child, it’s more in our consciousness that we should put the best people with these kids to keep in faith. But what about people who are just working alongside one another? The workplace violence conflict. We need to focus on making all of our communities and all of the workplaces as safe as possible. It’s the responsibility of the organization to do so. But nonprofits, because of their compromised budgets in some cases, they are spending their money elsewhere to maybe grow their projects and they are not really thinking about the people, if they are safe in the environment they are working in. In corporate America, it is common, and in the nonprofit arena, it is not as common. We are here as a voice to raise the awareness that everybody should be doing this, whether you have one employee or thousands.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You and I met at a conference last week, CEO Space. Had I met you—I came in late in the week because I had conflicts—and said, “Hey Steve, what is it that you do?” and you say, “I do background searches,” and I say, “I have a nonprofit. Why is it important for me to do that?” How would you respond to me?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> As a nonprofit?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> If I say, “I have a nonprofit. Why is it important for me to do that?”</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> You touched on this. It’s about reducing risk and reducing liability. Liability is big. It all ties into the overall image in the community they’re serving. It’s protecting their image. It doesn’t have to be their first priority. The first priority is protecting those who are part of their organization. You have to look at the entire hierarchy of your staff from your board of directors down to your volunteers. Oftentimes, there are people in between the upper board and the volunteers who are just coming on who get missed. They didn’t think it was important to screen them. Really it’s about lowering your liability and lowering your risk, or at least managing your risk. You can’t be a risk-free organization; that doesn’t exist. It’s about, how do you take steps and utilize your budget dollars to minimize your risk as much as you possibly can?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, you and I interface with a lot of nonprofit leaders and boards. I find there is a lot of boards that aren’t up to speed on how to be the board. They think about being in charge of governance sometimes. They sometimes realize they are responsible for financial oversight. I don’t think boards realize they have a liability whatever happens. Do you find, Russell, in your work that boards are blind to this element as well?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I have talked to people who really don’t have a core grasp of the notion of having liability insurance for the board of directors officers as they are putting these things together. They don’t understand how critical that is and what risks are involved. A large part of the problem is people don’t know what they don’t know. Nonprofit leaders, these are people centered in the idea of making the world a better place and service to others. They are more prone to take people at their word as opposed to doing any sort of digging. They may not think there is a big risk associated with bringing a person on. It’s nice to be able to take people at their word, but it depends on what kind of work you’re doing, who you’re serving, the assets of your organization you’re protecting. It never occurs to people there may be a scurvy elephant roaming around the zoo. You have to have a look at who you’re dealing with. People aren’t always who they say they are. That is just the reality of it. It’s important to look at these things up front because if you don’t have a person who is not in integrity in there in the first place, you don’t have to figure out how to get rid of them later on when you could have problems. The reputation of your organization could be at stake. You just have these horror stories. There was a veterans’ organization a few years ago that saw their reputation fall apart because the CEO was playing games with the books. Always you have to think in terms of protecting yourself with your regulations, with internal controls, with the way money and other assets are handled. More important, how you deal with the people you serve. You can really get in a lot of trouble easily and quickly without in the least bit intending to.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Steve, did that shake loose any thoughts for you?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> Yeah, it actually did. I do believe that nonprofits feel that the people they bring in have the heart for what they do. If they have a heart for what they do, then they are probably good people. I really think that is a mistake a lot of them make. Taking that assumption because they say they believe in what you believe in, they have the passion for what you have a passion for, that doesn’t mean they have the same background you have. A lot of people are trying to use their influence they currently have in the community, it could be a leader in the community, to find their way into a vulnerable group. That is the MO of a pedophile is to build up trust in everybody around them, including building themselves up to be leaders in the community so that everybody seems to trust them, and that is when they can get to the vulnerable children and build relationships without anybody thinking twice about it.</p> <p>Screening is not going to catch everybody, only if they have been arrested or convicted of something in the past. It’s only one part of the puzzle for keeping not only your organization safe, but those that you serve. It goes much more beyond the background check. I don’t think anyone can feel that they have that warm fuzzy feeling now that I have implemented background checks. I’m good, I got a green check mark for that person, I can just let them go. That is a wrong approach. You really need to have a conscious community around that everybody is the eyes and ears of the organization. We all have to keep our eyes on who we’re working alongside. If they are doing something we believe is incorrect or harmful to the organization or to those who serve, to make sure we all feel empowered to report those things, especially for physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, sexual harassment, whatever you might see. It’s up to us to report it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is another realm that Russell talked about with having your policies and procedures up to date. You just pointed out, we have to pay attention. That is part of our responsibility as a leader to see what is in front of us. I never realized people who are—and it makes sense if you talk about it—a pedophile positions themselves in a place of trust and then continues to validate that, so they throw people off guard. No, it couldn’t possibly be true. I have known people in that position before, and they were busted. Eventually you got caught. How long does it take and how many people do you hurt in the process? At least do your background check, which also helps relieve your liability. I’m sure some of the companies that Russell talked about that issue board insurance require a background check so they have less liability.</p> <p>I didn’t warn you: When Russell comes in, he asks you the hard questions. I’ll ask you easier ones first while he formulates the hard ones.</p> <p>Give us an example where people were trusting, and it really created damage. Then you came in and maybe you helped them get a process in place to prevent it in the future. Without naming names, what are the kinds of things that people should be alert to? <strong> </strong></p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> There are so many stories. Some have been recently in the news that everybody is aware of. One is USA Gymnastics with Dr. Nassau. Building trust, not only from the organization, but with the parents of these young children in the gymnastics program, and then going on to abuse them for years without ever getting caught. Sandusky at Penn State, same thing. He was able to testify with his peers that showering with young boys was just about cleanliness. They are always going to try to lie about who they are and have somebody believe it. They are masters at it. They never take any responsibility for their actions. It’s that narcissistic behavior on the pedophile side.</p> <p>Another story has nothing to do with a criminal record. This was a nonprofit organization that had drivers and they were doing deliveries. One of the individuals when we met with them, and we were on site for this one, he was in the state of Colorado, but he had a Tennessee drivers’ license. He said he had been here for four years. I asked him why didn’t he have a Colorado license. He said that he lost his license in Colorado from too many speeding tickets, so he had to go to my parent’s house in Tennessee to get a license. He is volunteering for an organization that drives one of their vehicles.</p> <p>People can get around from their past and get away from their past, whether it’s criminal behavior or not. It could be resume fudging. That happens more than you know, especially for certain positions, for executive director positions, finance positions, COO type positions, where they can say they have a Master’s degree in finance. They really just have a Bachelor’s, or they never finished college. They put it on their resume for years, and nobody questioned it. There are stories where the CEO of RadioShack, and RadioShack is falling from grace, but the CEO never had his Master’s degree in business, never had his MBA. It was a reporter who figured it out and started reporting on it. Then he resigned or got let go.</p> <p>Same thing with the president of the business school of Harvard. She had miscommunicated on her resume that she had a Ph. D, and she never did. Organizations that we all know about and have heard about, down to around the corner with businesses in your neighborhood or possibly even your organization. It’s important to vet the higher-end positions in your organization. It’s not just about the volunteers. I can go on forever about why it’s important for the volunteers, but anybody working in your office, making sure you are looking at embezzlement or money laundering or anything that deals with your budget, your finances, your books, make sure those are always intact and that you are bringing on the best people.</p> <p>Background checks don’t always catch everybody. They may never have been arrested before. I am going to go back to what Hugh was talking about with the pedophile. Eventually they get caught. That’s not true. They never get caught, and they die with their secrets. The average pedophile molests 137 children in their lifetime without ever getting arrested for it. That is where the training is more important than the background check and being aware and keeping their eyes open.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. I guess there is some people who will be polite and they think it’s not polite to do a background check. Have you come across that? How do you respond to that?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> For the last 15 years, we have dealt with that. I don’t know exactly where that really stems from other than they feel like it’s unkind to ask someone to sign a consent form to do a background check. They are giving of their time, and I feel like I am invading their privacy if I ask them for this information. But you have to think about your organization and its reputation and why you have that organization set up in the first place. Then you have to make sure you bring on the best people. You just need to frame it differently: we are a culture of safety instead of just being haphazard about who we bring on. I think that everybody who comes on board would feel more confident with the person sitting next to them, with the person they are running an errand with to Office Depot if they are going in the same vehicle together. You will have a higher level of confidence that the organization did the right thing before you came.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Where is the person who said, “Oh, I don’t want to be impolite to them,” so they back down from not realizing they are being impolite to everyone else in the culture. I don’t want to make trouble, but if they don’t do that, they will make trouble for everybody else.</p> <p>What about the person who says, “I don’t have time for that?” That sounds like too much trouble.</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> The one issue with nonprofits is wearing so many hats and being so busy. I think that sometimes the background check seems like a daunting task, especially if they have never done them. First, I have to vet a company. I don’t know where to go to trust somebody. I don’t want to do all the paperwork. I have enough things going on. I don’t even understand background checks. How am I going to do this? I don’t have a Human Resources background, nor do I have a HR director on staff.</p> <p>That is where SecureSearch makes it a little unique. We can come in understanding that that is one of your pain points on not having enough people to do all of the tasks you have to do. We made everything paperless. Not only are the consent forms, but also the entire process of signing up is paperless. Everything is the click of a button. The applicants, whether they be your board of directors, staff, or volunteers, they do all of the data entry. All you’re doing is sending an email invitation. Simple as that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. If I came to you and said I have ten volunteers and I need to take them through a background check, then you’d give me a consent form for them to sign, with permission to do that.</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> The way you phrased that is interesting, that you <em>give</em> them a consent form. It’s actually against the law for us to provide a template consent form. We provide samples. All consent forms are the organization’s form. It’s not my form. We provide a sample, but it is really up to each organization to go through legal counsel and make sure everything is in there that needs to be in there and that it meets their federal and state laws. We try to do our best with our samples to make sure they are good, but you should only use that as a framework.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Before you can do the background check, I have to have them sign a form though.</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> Yes. That form can be in paper, or it can be through our paperless volunteer and applicant portal that is called Search My Background that we have. If everything is in the portal electronically, and they sign a signature box either with their finger on a mobile device or the mouse of their computer. That signature will map to all the documents in the system so that everything is signed and everything is provided to the applicant.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Where I was headed with that, and I thank you for the clarification on the language, where I was headed with that is I would say I have my ten volunteers and I need to run them through the process. Would you suggest to me that I do it on myself as well?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> Well, somebody should run one on you. But if you want to at least have something in the “file,” whether it be a digital file or a file folder in a lockable filing cabinet, having your own in there is a good idea, especially to report to the board that if you are the executive director, it started with you. Sometimes you can be surprised on what you might see on your own.</p> <p>We had an executive director in Minnesota who had a small nonprofit. I think it was five or ten volunteers based on what he told me over the phone. This was quite a few years ago. When I was small enough and able to see the background checks coming in on a regular basis, I pulled it open and said, “Oh, I talked to that gentleman on the phone.” He signed up and ran his background check; he had three pages of felonies on his own. He never ran another background check with us. I think he was curious as to if his own background check would come up and expose him as a customer. There was nothing I could do to share it with the greater group of that organization. There is a lot of risk out there. It can start with that executive director. I don’t think the executive director should be the one running the background check; it should be pushed by the board that the executive director have a background check.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. Nobody should be exempt from it. Everybody should go through it. The founder, the executive director.</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> Everybody.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great. We are almost halfway through this interview. Russell, I’m sure that you have formulated a great question for our guest.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> As I was saying earlier, a lot of people don’t know what they don’t know. I think it starts with going from a place of what do I know, what have I been told, what don’t I know, and where did the information I get come from? How do I know what I know?</p> <p>I think my first question would be all quality information. How can you get quality information to make sure that what you’re hearing can be verified?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> That is a really good question. There are a lot of background screening companies in the U.S, thousands really. Everybody approaches business differently. Some are very small, that concept of working out of your garage, and they might not have a website. They might be in it just for the profit. There are lots of different data points to put together a good background check. The problem I see with the nonprofit side is they are learning on these database products to be the be-all end-all product because it’s fast and it’s inexpensive. They think because somebody might be calling it a national search that it truly is. But it isn’t. I like to think of the database searches as a net. If you can picture the map of the United States and now you’re casting this net across the United States, what is the net made up of? Holes strung together is the way I’d like to put it.</p> <p>I want you to remember that while it might be national—we call it multi-state—there are going to be holes. In some areas of this net there will be tears and huge holes versus tightly knit holes in other areas. You have this product that a lot of the nonprofits like to order because they think it’s national, they think it’s an easy, inexpensive way to launch into the background checks, and they don’t realize the risks that are still going to be there. They are not conducting what we call a best-in-class background check. Nonprofits have to be careful.</p> <p>To answer your question about data, we take three different aggregation data points from the database and merge them together, eliminating the duplicate points. Other companies will buy data from these aggregate groups of data, and they will hang it on their own internal servers and ping against that data for months before they refresh it. That’s how you get the $2 background checks for some of these large nonprofits. I’m not saying everybody does it, but in order to reduce the cost to meet what an expectation might be for a nonprofit, which is cheap, these organizations are going to give you bad and old data.</p> <p>We refresh our data every week, in some cases like the sex offender registries, for some every two weeks. But the oldest refresh we have is 30 days for our entire database. Again, it’s a merge of three different data points coming together. We didn’t get into this business primarily to make a profit; we got into this business to protect those who need to be protected.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s it. It’s setting that intention right up front. When you talk to people, you have to set an intention up front about what it is you’re doing. When you talk to people who might be new that we need to help, but understand we are going to be looking into some things, asking you questions for the sake of transparency, and direct about it. Who, what, when, where, why, and how? We keep our questions as open in that way as we can so that we get some meaningful information. I think that people who have things to hide may balk a little bit at this directness. Somebody is fidgeting, and they are talking about how much time this is taking, why you need to know that. In my head, that will be a red flag. What say you?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> A hidden benefit of the background check implementation is the bad ones kind of leave in the guise of night. They don’t come back tomorrow. You actually said, “Hey, we take it seriously, we are going to have a consent form for you to sign. We will call your references. We will check in on who you say you are.”</p> <p>That’s another thing, references. If you are not calling references, whether you outsource it to an organization, I recommend doing it internally so you can hear the nuance of the phone, the pregnant pauses of someone being asked, “Is this somebody you would bring back into your organization if you could?” and they go, “Hmm, well, I don’t know about that.” If you outsource that, it’s hard for somebody to put that into words on a report. I recommend if you have the time to do it yourself. If you have the money, you can outsource it. References are just as important as the background check. The background checks of course can be criminal. They can also verify your resume, education, employment. It’s not always just looking at their criminal records, but making sure they are who they say they are.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> While you are on that track, what kinds of background checks are there? Go over that again.</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> There are lots of different types of background checks. We want to get nonprofit organizations to stop thinking about using the database just for looking for a criminal or a sex offender. Because of the analogy I used with the net with all the larger holes and tears, you need to look at each applicant holistically. Instead of where your organization is serving or based and the geography and how that might look in a database search, you need to look at the applicant.</p> <p>John could be a resident of one place for his whole life, and Mary has lived in seven different places in seven years. Mary, you are going to have to do more on because there are possibilities that the database has missed where Mary lives, they weren’t up to date, and you are going to add a county courthouse search or a statewide repository search if it exists, like it does in Colorado. Other states have that, too. You are going to need to start with a foundation and then lay additional due diligence on top of that to get a good profile for each applicant instead of one size fits all.</p> <p>The criminal side, you break out into two different things. We have state and local crimes that you find in a database. You have the sex offender crimes that are in the sex offender registry. Then you will have crimes against the federal government or federal-related crimes. A lot of people think of these as the white-collar crimes, the Bernie Madoffs or the Martha Stewart crime where she got involved in the stocks. Yes, but inter-state kidnapping is also a federal crime. Money laundering and profiteering is a federal crime. Any building on federal lands. A lot of organizations and companies lately neglect ordering a federal criminal search. That can come back to bite them if they don’t search it.</p> <p>There are a lot of other things, too. Motor vehicle searches, I mentioned. Credit reports we can do. You can do the education verification. International criminal and credit. Motor vehicles. We have 165 different services available to any organization, and most organizations look at about five.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong>What are some of the training opportunities? Part of the challenge is training nonprofit leaders or other people about what the benefits are and the dangers of neglecting to do due diligence. In other words, what are the things that you’re doing to assist people to understand the value of it so that they actually have this awareness? It’s one thing to bring somebody in. Somebody could slide under the radar after you have done your search. Maybe something changes. People need to have an idea of what sort of things they need to look out for to make sure that everything is good. What training do you folks give nonprofits an opportunity to take advantage of so that they have a better sense of when they may need some help digging into something?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> We actually have a very specific training program that I actually founded. It’s called Safeguard from Abuse. With a focus on the vulnerable populations that a lot of nonprofits focus their energy into those communities, it is a 75-minute online and also on a DVD training program with a certificate of understanding for those that pass the test on all of the different types of abuse, not just the sexual abuse, but neglect, physical, and emotional abuse, diving deep into what they are, diving deep into how to recognize when a child is being abused. So many organizations have that fear of having a sexual predator in their midst, so we do focus more time and attention in their personality traits, their grooming behaviors, understanding the personality of that pedophile.</p> <p>The most important thing is raising the awareness overall through the training, but empowering each person who goes through the video to be a mandated reporter and to understand that they can’t help if they put their head in the sand. They have to be empowered to report, and they have to understand how to do so is very important. The awareness training is important.</p> <p>My example that I like to use is Russell, you want to buy a new car. You have a brand of car in mind, and you’re getting in that car and heading down the road. All of a sudden, you start to see that car everywhere. It’s now in your awareness. It’s always been there, just like the characteristics of people who harm kids. They’re still doing it in front of us; we’re just not aware of it. We didn’t raise our awareness level high enough to see what’s always been there but invisible to the eye. It’s really what we focus on is what we see. What we focus on we become as well. We want to make sure that we can train enough people to end child abuse, or at least if we can save one child, it’s all worth it.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Every time you buy a new car, everybody buys the same make, model, and color that very same day. I was thinking about all of these things. There are people who are listening to this, and they may be leaning back in their chairs thinking, No, I never did any of this stuff up front. Now I have 60 people. How do I know that I don’t have somebody like this in my midst right now? Is there some type of organizational audit or assessment that you can do?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> We can definitely help. What you’re saying is I gotta go retro. I have to go back to day one, and anybody who is still with me, screen them. That seems like an invasion maybe, or a daunting task, or maybe you’re just thinking, I’ll start with the next person. Now you will set yourself up for some difficulties being fair and equitable. If it’s just Susan who just walked in the door but you did not go back five years ago and do this, once you implement the strategy, you have to implement it at any level and go back and do everybody. Starting top down is a good approach. Start at the top, and push down through the hierarchy of individuals in your organization. It’s about resetting the reason for why you’re doing it. You are resetting the fact that you have this new program that you’re implementing. Our insurance company wants us to do it. Most insurance companies want you to do it anyway. If you have to put it on something else, you can just say it’s a new requirement. It could be just your organization’s requirement. Once it’s a new requirement, it’s a requirement. Everybody has to do it.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Having everybody do it ensures that you don’t have somebody out there who wants to take you to court saying they’re being singled out because I’m a woman or I’m black or I’m over 50, or just anything they can pull out to say why it doesn’t apply. We talked about that comfort level that people have. I don’t want to offend or put anybody out. How do you help people who decide to do something like that do it in the face of the apprehension that they may have and the fear of offending somebody, implementing it seamlessly? What are some of the things you do to help people through that?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> That’s a good question. We help organizations put together a background screening policy. It’s all about policies. Sometimes you might have a policy- With those who work with kids, you might have a child protection policy, for example. But even in that child protection policy, they don’t talk about background checks. So we need to weave in another layer of policy, and that is who do we screen, why do we screen them, how often do we screen them, and what do we order? Really it comes down to being comfortable enough with your organization and communicating that you do have policies. It’s part of your mission and vision, wherever it is that it fits in, to make it that important. You can make it unimportant and be at risk and have everyone at risk, or you can make it important and be an advocate for safety and make your organization. It’s all about preserving that organization. Amp up your image; it will help you and the community.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Both of you are talking about people not knowing what they don’t know. There is a side that people are so close to it, you’re so involved in it, that you’re so blind to it because you are focusing on the day-to-day and the relationships. You’re blind to all of the liabilities. Having someone like you that is skilled to discuss policy procedure with I think is really a high benefit. Is that part of your service that you offer?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> We offer that at no charge. Phone call conversations, any time someone wants to talk to me. It’s very individual. Each organization is very individual, and I can’t just say, Here is a template. We like to discuss what your organization looks like, the different roles and responsibilities you might have, the silos you may have, the offshoots of your organization you may have, and drill down. Like I mentioned, it’s not a one-size-fits-all. Based on roles and responsibilities, you will be ordering different types of services. You may order motor vehicle for one, you may need to look at a credit report for one, but it won’t be for all. We want to make sure that you understand that as an organization, what’s available first of all, why you should order it, and then implement it. Now it’s part of your policy manual, and now it can be handed off if you were to leave the organization. If you are in charge of this role, and now you are leaving or retiring to go do something else, you can now hand it off to someone else and they won’t have to reinvent the wheel. It’s important to do it on the front end, but we’ll help.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Your link for people to find you is SecureSearch.com?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> It’s actually not. I wish I had that. It’s SecureSearchPro.com.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s better.</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> We have SafeguardfromAbuse.com.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You have been talking about databases, and people can do a database search. Say more about that for people who don’t know what you mean by “database.” I think of a database as where I keep my CRM, where I keep my contacts. Say more about that and why it doesn’t really cut the mustard.</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> Okay. A lot of people think that there is one central place to go to do a background check in the United States. Just go to the FBI. They think there is something in some place to go. That is a fallacy. We are a disparate country. Our systems do not communicate with each other. What you have in Colorado doesn’t communicate with what’s in Virginia with what’s in Florida, even though we think that’s the case. Another fallacy is that a social security number is all you need to find a criminal record. We don’t find any criminal records using a social security number. That’s a myth. We use the social security number to find out what the person might be: what names they have used, what addresses they may have used, information sources.</p> <p>The databases, because we have this disparate system where counties don’t communicate with states sometimes and counties don’t even communicate with each other, all of these groups work in silos. Their information or their data is also stuck in that silo. You have to search that silo to find that information. In some cases, these silos of information raise their hands and say they will share. There are companies called data aggregators to say, I will pull from this county, I will pull from that county, and this department of corrections wants to give me that information. They compile it all together. They go out to my industry and say, “Do you want to buy my information?” I was talking about having three of these aggregators that I purchase information from and weave it all together because they will miss some in one and miss some in another and I am hoping I can fill in some of the gaps. This is not 100%. Again, it’s that net with holes. It’s as good as it gets. We search over a billion records, but there are so many holes and gaps in this data. That is where the database comes in; it’s a base of data. There will be holes that you can’t rely on as your only search.</p> <p>We can consult on the best approach. The best approach is you have to look at three different things. First, your due diligence, why you do what you do, why you want to screen in the first place. Do you want to protect the vulnerable? Is it because your insurance company made you do it? I don’t care what it is. We have to understand what the impetus of your diligence is.</p> <p>Then we need to look at your organizational budget and say what budget dollars do you have to work with. Do you need to go find more budget dollars from another bucket in order to cover something like this? You want to implement it as soon as possible.</p> <p>The third is your comfort for risk, or your risk tolerance. That is already comfortable with your organization name being in a newspaper because you didn’t do a background check, and now you brought in a pedophile into your organization. Or does that make you cringe and keep you awake at night? What does your legal counsel say? What does your insurance company say?</p> <p>We need to bring those three things together and create a unique, sustainable program for your organization. That may be very different from the organization I talk to tomorrow. That’s okay. It’s unique to you and sustainable and something you’re comfortable with and can move forward with in your organization.</p> <p>A long answer for a simple question.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s a complex question, a complex situation. I have met people who think they can just Google somebody’s name and find out all kinds of things. What’s the fallacy in that strategy?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> Did you have consent to do it, first of all? Every applicant has their legal rights. They have to provide you consent to really do a background check on them, especially if you want to use it. If you just want to be the armchair neighbor and check in on a neighbor, you have the legal right to do so. If you are going to bring this individual on board and have them fill out paperwork to be a volunteer or member of the staff, you have to get their consent. You can’t just go to Google. The data out there is only as good as the data out there. If you’re not buying it and it’s free, there is a reason it’s free. If you’re spending $59.99 to get the rest of the report, they gave you a little bit, and the rest of it is behind the scenes, that is just database information, and that is way more than you ever need to pay. You need to do a database search for only $15. It’s something you need, and something you need to build on, so you want to make sure you make it affordable on the database side so you can grow it and add the county courthouse searches as necessary.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There are some things out there that are robust. I have probably used some of the things as a revenue agent for IRS. It’s not off the shelf, and it’s not cheap by any means, but it’s good stuff. It’s important to do that. You get what you pay for. A lot of these databases that you describe pop up if you do an online directory search for the Yellow Pages, or something like that. These things get offered to you all the time.</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> It’s the free data available to everyone that they compile. Not everything is going to be in there as I mentioned. It will be fraught with holes. They make it look good. They put a shiny website together, and you see moving parts. It’s like they are searching as deep as they can go, and I will get every tidbit of information I need in seconds on one of these companies. You have to be careful with what you do. Everything needs to be validated at the local level. Anything from the database, any red flag, has to be validated at the court or the point of origin of the information to be accurate; otherwise, you are not supposed to see it anyway. That is why you want to work with a consumer reporting agency. SecureSearch is a consumer reporting agency. We are a member of concern consuming reporter agency, making sure we do it the right way and making sure we do validate everything at the local level before you as the customer gets to see that information.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are coming to the last part of our interview, Steve. SecureSearchPro.com is where people can find out more. What is the differentiator? What makes this business different? You mentioned there are lots of others out there. Why are you different from them?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> That’s a good question. The first thing is the information we have to share with you is through years of experience. We have veterans in the industry on staff who run our customer service department, who run our operations, and who run the executive office. That’s number one, lots of experience.</p> <p>Two is we have a heart for the nonprofit sector because we understand you are wearing many hats. You don’t have time, and you may not have the skillsets. You can feel comfortable with us. We are going to answer the phone. We will talk to you. You won’t be alone in this process. We will be there to answer any questions you may have throughout the process, and you will have someone you can work with, whether it be me, you can always work with me directly, or anyone on my staff.</p> <p>We also don’t have a single salesperson on staff, so you will never be “sold” anything. We only have consultants, so we will be asking you questions and making you recommendations for best practices. You won’t hear from us five million times; we won’t pound you until you buy. We wait to hear from you again if you’d like to do this with us. That is what makes us different.</p> <p>We have a heart for the nonprofit, the integrity of our data we are purchasing, and the integrity of the system we have and the compliance of our system and processes is what set us apart.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s strong. It sounds like this service is incredibly expensive, thousands of dollars, to do a background check. Is that true?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> No, that’s actually very far from true. Depends on the organization you’re working with. Our pricing model is geared toward the nonprofit sector, so we are extremely affordable. We actually have scalable pricing for those who have high volume discount programs. A background check, I would say that a good budget, if you want to do it right, for the criminal and sex offender and fill in all the gaps, is budget for $50 a person. It doesn’t mean it will always cost $50 a person; it may cost $15 for some, $22 for another, or $85 for another. It could be all over the board. But I would budget that to make sure you have enough allocated funds for a good solid program.</p> <p>A lot of people are going to ask if they need to do background checks through the fingerprint process, too. No, you don’t. You can get good information that is disposition-based. Disposition is what happened in court, information from a secure search without ever having to do fingerprints. If you are getting government funding or state funding, they may make it mandatory, so you have to do it. But we can still make sure that the fingerprint arrest record—and that’s all it is, an arrest information source with biometrics, and not everybody gets fingerprinted when they get arrested—that the courts dismissed it or said it was a guilty verdict and enhance the arrest record database you search.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Good. Thank you for that complete answer. This has been a very informative interview, and I’m sitting here thinking about all the organizations that I know about that have fallen short. We are going to make sure we will put a recommendation in our work that they do this early on. I think it’s that important.</p> <p>As we are tying up this really good interview—Steve, thank you for the time today. It’s been exceptional—what impression, what challenge, what thought do you want to leave in people’s minds?</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> I guess my question is: What image do you have of your own organization? How do you look at your own organization? Do your process and your people align with it? If you are worried about that and you want to lower your risk and your liabilities as an organization and maintain the image you want to have of your own organization, it doesn’t cost a lot of money, it doesn’t take a lot of time, you don’t have to learn how to do it. We do everything for you. Just reach out to us. There is no charge to sign up or for a free consultation. Talk to one of our advocates. We’re here to help; we’re not here to sell. We hope to hear from you. It’s something you should definitely take a look at. If you’re doing the background checks now, we can talk about if you are doing them the right way. If you’re not doing them, we can help you along the path.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, thanks again for being here and being by my side. Steve, thank you for a wonderful interview. Thanks everyone for listening.</p> <p><strong>Steve:</strong> Thank you very much.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3555</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Dr. Thyonne Gordon and Hugh Ballou</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/dr-thyonne-gordon-and-hugh-ballou</link>
      <description>Hugh Ballou and Dr. Thyonne Gordon share highlights from the 27th Leadership Empowerment Symposium held in Lynchburg, VA.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2018 00:42:14 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7e772048-b329-11eb-9f0f-13cf2d41271b/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Highlights of the Leadership Empowerment Symposium Lynchburg</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Hugh Ballou and Dr. Thyonne Gordon share highlights from the 27th Leadership Empowerment Symposium held in Lynchburg, VA.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Hugh Ballou and Dr. Thyonne Gordon share highlights from the 27th Leadership Empowerment Symposium held in Lynchburg, VA.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>489</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Leaders Must Have a Clear Vision with Bishop Younger</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/leaders-must-have-a-clear-vision-with-bishop-younger</link>
      <description>Bishop K. Y. Younger:
 Leaders Must Have a Clear Vision
 The Ramp Church International is a body of believers who love God, and love the people of God!  We are passionate about spreading the Gospel around the globe and serving our community.  It's a place for family, worship, and fellowship.
 Bishop Younger is renowned for his academic and philanthropic prowess.  He has matriculated through the ranks of ecclesia, widely regarded as a spiritual sage, an erudite historian, and an astound autodidact.  Younger is the catalyst and namesake of the S.Y. Scholars Program, a competitive college prep program for elementary, middle, and high school students in Central Virginia.  Serving as the institution’s Chief Advisor, Bishop Younger travels to the nation’s most prestigious colleges and universities with the Symposium Tour, where he, along with prominent political and education leaders, converge and discuss, “The State of Education in America.”
 His unprecedented leadership has compelled many Christian leaders and Pastors to seek his oversight. As a result, he was elected into the bishopric, and subsequently founded the One Way Churches International in 2011, where he currently serves as Vice-Presiding Prelate and Co-Adjutor Primate over 15+ churches.
 Bishop Younger is a proud member of Christians United for Israel where he serves as a local and regional director.  He also serves with Global Peace and humanitarian organization with efforts all over the world.
 Bishop Younger is widely regarded as the preeminent voice of this generation. His ministry has been solicited across this world both nationally and internationally.  He has been embraced and affirmed by the upper echelon of ecclesiastical elite as a pedagogical pundit whose wisdom transcends his age.
 He is an itinerant preacher, musician, instructor, conference speaker, humanitarian, and highly solicited revivalist throughout the United States, India, Israel, Central America, South America, England, Africa, South Korea, China, and Mongolia.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7e8ddd56-b329-11eb-9f0f-eba27c9387e6/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Developing and Sharing a Vision is a Key Leadership Skill</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Bishop K. Y. Younger:
 Leaders Must Have a Clear Vision
 The Ramp Church International is a body of believers who love God, and love the people of God!  We are passionate about spreading the Gospel around the globe and serving our community.  It's a place for family, worship, and fellowship.
 Bishop Younger is renowned for his academic and philanthropic prowess.  He has matriculated through the ranks of ecclesia, widely regarded as a spiritual sage, an erudite historian, and an astound autodidact.  Younger is the catalyst and namesake of the S.Y. Scholars Program, a competitive college prep program for elementary, middle, and high school students in Central Virginia.  Serving as the institution’s Chief Advisor, Bishop Younger travels to the nation’s most prestigious colleges and universities with the Symposium Tour, where he, along with prominent political and education leaders, converge and discuss, “The State of Education in America.”
 His unprecedented leadership has compelled many Christian leaders and Pastors to seek his oversight. As a result, he was elected into the bishopric, and subsequently founded the One Way Churches International in 2011, where he currently serves as Vice-Presiding Prelate and Co-Adjutor Primate over 15+ churches.
 Bishop Younger is a proud member of Christians United for Israel where he serves as a local and regional director.  He also serves with Global Peace and humanitarian organization with efforts all over the world.
 Bishop Younger is widely regarded as the preeminent voice of this generation. His ministry has been solicited across this world both nationally and internationally.  He has been embraced and affirmed by the upper echelon of ecclesiastical elite as a pedagogical pundit whose wisdom transcends his age.
 He is an itinerant preacher, musician, instructor, conference speaker, humanitarian, and highly solicited revivalist throughout the United States, India, Israel, Central America, South America, England, Africa, South Korea, China, and Mongolia.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Bishop K. Y. Younger:</strong></h1> <h1><strong>Leaders Must Have a Clear Vision</strong></h1> <p>The Ramp Church International is a body of believers who love God, and love the people of God!  We are passionate<a href="http://www.therampchurch.com"></a> about spreading the Gospel around the globe and serving our community.  It's a place for family, worship, and fellowship.</p> <p><strong><a href="http://www.therampchurch.com/bishopyounger"></a>Bishop Younger</strong> is renowned for his academic and philanthropic prowess.  He has matriculated through the ranks of ecclesia, widely regarded as a spiritual sage, an erudite historian, and an astound autodidact.  Younger is the catalyst and namesake of the S.Y. Scholars Program, a competitive college prep program for elementary, middle, and high school students in Central Virginia.  Serving as the institution’s Chief Advisor, Bishop Younger travels to the nation’s most prestigious colleges and universities with the Symposium Tour, where he, along with prominent political and education leaders, converge and discuss, “The State of Education in America.”</p> <p>His unprecedented leadership has compelled many Christian leaders and Pastors to seek his oversight. As a result, he was elected into the bishopric, and subsequently founded the One Way Churches International in 2011, where he currently serves as Vice-Presiding Prelate and Co-Adjutor Primate over 15+ churches.</p> <p>Bishop Younger is a proud member of Christians United for Israel where he serves as a local and regional director.  He also serves with Global Peace and humanitarian organization with efforts all over the world.</p> <p>Bishop Younger is widely regarded as the preeminent voice of this generation. His ministry has been solicited across this world both nationally and internationally.  He has been embraced and affirmed by the upper echelon of ecclesiastical elite as a pedagogical pundit whose wisdom transcends his age.</p> <p>He is an itinerant preacher, musician, instructor, conference speaker, humanitarian, and highly solicited revivalist throughout the United States, India, Israel, Central America, South America, England, Africa, South Korea, China, and Mongolia.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3409</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Rise Against Hunger: Leading the Next Chapter with Rod Brooks</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/rise-against-hunger-leading-the-next-chapter-with-rod-brooks</link>
      <description>Rod Brooks has served as CEO of Rise Against Hunger since July 2006. He provides leadership and direction toward the achievement of the organization’s mission to end world hunger, focusing on service programs, fundraising, financial and administrative management. Rod has spent nearly twenty years working in the non-profit sector. Prior to directing Rise Against Hunger, Rod worked for 16 years creating Exploris (now titled Marbles Kid’s Museum), an interactive museum about the world, ultimately serving as Vice President for Administration.
 Rise Against Hunger is driven by the vision of a world without hunger. Our mission is to end hunger in our lifetime by providing food and life-changing aid to the world’s most vulnerable and creating a global commitment to mobilize the necessary resources.
 Driving Rise Against Hunger’s work is the recognition that ending hunger is more than just feeding people, which led Rise Against Hunger to focus its feeding programs in areas where we can have a real impact and expand its hunger-fighting programs beyond meal packaging and distribution.
 Our organization’s approach to ending hunger centers on mobilizing a global network of hunger champions.
 Another core focus of Rise Against Hunger is responding to crises–both natural and man-made.Another core focus of Rise Against Hunger is responding to crises–both natural and man-made.
 Our third approach to eradicating hunger centers around grassroots community empowerment.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2018 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7e9f7d0e-b329-11eb-9f0f-939990365206/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leadership Challenges and Successes</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Rod Brooks has served as CEO of Rise Against Hunger since July 2006. He provides leadership and direction toward the achievement of the organization’s mission to end world hunger, focusing on service programs, fundraising, financial and administrative management. Rod has spent nearly twenty years working in the non-profit sector. Prior to directing Rise Against Hunger, Rod worked for 16 years creating Exploris (now titled Marbles Kid’s Museum), an interactive museum about the world, ultimately serving as Vice President for Administration.
 Rise Against Hunger is driven by the vision of a world without hunger. Our mission is to end hunger in our lifetime by providing food and life-changing aid to the world’s most vulnerable and creating a global commitment to mobilize the necessary resources.
 Driving Rise Against Hunger’s work is the recognition that ending hunger is more than just feeding people, which led Rise Against Hunger to focus its feeding programs in areas where we can have a real impact and expand its hunger-fighting programs beyond meal packaging and distribution.
 Our organization’s approach to ending hunger centers on mobilizing a global network of hunger champions.
 Another core focus of Rise Against Hunger is responding to crises–both natural and man-made.Another core focus of Rise Against Hunger is responding to crises–both natural and man-made.
 Our third approach to eradicating hunger centers around grassroots community empowerment.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Rod Brooks</strong> has served as CEO of Rise Against Hunger since July 2006. He provides leadership and direction toward the achievement of the organization’s mission to end world hunger, focusing on service programs, fundraising, financial and administrative management. Rod has spent nearly twenty years working in the non-profit sector. Prior to directing Rise Against Hunger, Rod worked for 16 years creating Exploris (now titled Marbles Kid’s Museum), an interactive museum about the world, ultimately serving as Vice President for Administration.</p> <p><strong>Rise Against Hunger</strong> is driven by the vision of a world without hunger. Our mission is to end hunger in our lifetime by<a href="http://www.riseagainsthunger.org"></a> providing food and life-changing aid to the world’s most vulnerable and creating a global commitment to mobilize the necessary resources.</p> <p>Driving Rise Against Hunger’s work is the recognition that ending hunger is more than just feeding people, which led Rise Against Hunger to focus its feeding programs in areas where we can have a real impact and expand its hunger-fighting programs beyond meal packaging and distribution.</p> <p>Our organization’s approach to ending hunger centers on mobilizing a global network of hunger champions.</p> <p>Another core focus of Rise Against Hunger is responding to crises–both natural and man-made.Another core focus of Rise Against Hunger is responding to crises–both natural and man-made.</p> <p>Our third approach to eradicating hunger centers around grassroots community empowerment.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3632</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[042afec72bcc830d096aa71528b70112]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3143131486.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>Nonprofit Compliance with Christian LeFer</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofit-compliance-with-christian-lefer</link>
      <description>Christian LeFer creates solutions to benefit the nonprofit sector. His passion has always been to empower others to impact their world: “Unleash your inner hero!”
 His family’s involvement in the community and as advocates for foster and adoptive parenting, along with a successful consultancy in founding and fundraising for nonprofits, make this foray into software and solutions for charities a natural.
 Having organized successful 1st Amendment litigation in state and federal courts, Christian has also become a sought-after adviser on free speech and civil liberties issues.
 LeFer’s key strengths include vision, copywriting, marketing (direct and online), and sales. I earned a B.A. from Rutgers University in History/Political Science, cum laude.
 What is Charitable Solicitation Registration/Fundraising Compliance?
 A: 41 out of 50 U.S. states have enacted regulations requiring “charitable solicitation” registration – covering virtually every conceivable method of fundraising activity by nonprofits. The registration process varies by state, and depends on factors including annual revenues and method of fundraising – creating a confusing patchwork of regulations.
 State government agencies including Attorneys General and Secretaries of State have staffed compliance enforcement departments with prosecutors and Administrative Law judges, and a finding of non-compliance can result in monetary fines, civil or criminal penalties, and revocation of the right to raise funds.
 These laws no longer only apply to large-scale phone and mail fundraising: A passive website “donate” button or social media “share” can result in your organization being targeted and penalized – even publicly listed as an “offender” online.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2018 20:47:29 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7ebaee7c-b329-11eb-9f0f-6b5c9ffe6837/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Registering Nonprofits with States and Why It's Crucial</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Christian LeFer creates solutions to benefit the nonprofit sector. His passion has always been to empower others to impact their world: “Unleash your inner hero!”
 His family’s involvement in the community and as advocates for foster and adoptive parenting, along with a successful consultancy in founding and fundraising for nonprofits, make this foray into software and solutions for charities a natural.
 Having organized successful 1st Amendment litigation in state and federal courts, Christian has also become a sought-after adviser on free speech and civil liberties issues.
 LeFer’s key strengths include vision, copywriting, marketing (direct and online), and sales. I earned a B.A. from Rutgers University in History/Political Science, cum laude.
 What is Charitable Solicitation Registration/Fundraising Compliance?
 A: 41 out of 50 U.S. states have enacted regulations requiring “charitable solicitation” registration – covering virtually every conceivable method of fundraising activity by nonprofits. The registration process varies by state, and depends on factors including annual revenues and method of fundraising – creating a confusing patchwork of regulations.
 State government agencies including Attorneys General and Secretaries of State have staffed compliance enforcement departments with prosecutors and Administrative Law judges, and a finding of non-compliance can result in monetary fines, civil or criminal penalties, and revocation of the right to raise funds.
 These laws no longer only apply to large-scale phone and mail fundraising: A passive website “donate” button or social media “share” can result in your organization being targeted and penalized – even publicly listed as an “offender” online.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Christian LeFer</strong> creates solutions to benefit the nonprofit sector. His passion has always been to empower others to impact their world: “Unleash your inner hero!”</p> <p>His family’s involvement in the community and as advocates for foster and adoptive parenting, along with a successful consultancy in founding and fundraising for nonprofits, make this foray into software and solutions for charities a natural.</p> <p>Having organized successful 1st Amendment litigation in state and federal courts, Christian has also become a sought-after adviser on free speech and civil liberties issues.</p> <p>LeFer’s key strengths include vision, copywriting, marketing (direct and online), and sales. I earned a B.A. from Rutgers University in History/Political Science, cum laude.</p> <p><strong>What is Charitable Solicitation Registration/Fundraising Compliance?</strong></p> <p>A: 41 out of 50 U.S. states have enacted regulations requiring “charitable solicitation” registration – covering virtually every conceivable method of fundraising activity by nonprofits. The registration process varies by state, and depends on factors including annual revenues and method of fundraising – creating a confusing patchwork of regulations.</p> <p>State government agencies including Attorneys General and Secretaries of State have staffed compliance enforcement departments with prosecutors and Administrative Law judges, and a finding of non-compliance can result in monetary fines, civil or criminal penalties, and revocation of the right to raise funds.</p> <p>These laws no longer only apply to large-scale phone and mail fundraising: A passive website “donate” button or social media “share” can result in your organization being targeted and penalized – even publicly listed as an “offender” online.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3275</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3161158347.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>EVANGELIST CARLTON PEARSON SHARES HIS STORY</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/evangelist-carlton-pearson-shares-his-story</link>
      <description>EVANGELIST CARLTON PEARSON SHARES HIS STORY:
 HOW HE WAS OSTRACIZED BY HIS CHURCH
 
NOW THE MOVIE…

 Evangelist Carlton Pearson is ostracized by his church for preaching that there is no Hell.
   Bishop Carlton Pearson
  Carlton Pearson is a native of San Diego California, where he spent the first 18 years of his life with his parents and five siblings.
 After studying at the Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he majored in Bible Literature English Bible, he served as Associate evangelist for the Oral Roberts Association and the ORU Board of Regents for 15 years on its Board of Regents. He has received several honorary doctoral degrees.
 After a shifting to what Carlton calls “Expanded Consciousness”, his ministry changed dramatically, causing the re-inventing, re-positioning and re-branding of himself and his focus. He likes to call himself a Sacred Activist and Spiritual Progressive and is a strong proponent of Justice and Peace issues.
 Presently, his life story serves as the basis for the Netflix original movie produced by ENGAME and NPR titled “Come Sunday” highlighting his personal story about the shift in his ministry to Radical Inclusion insisting that Christians are not the only people who will experience eternal life. The movie premiered at the Sundance Film Festival on January 21, 2018 and will be released on Netflix on April 13, 2018.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2018 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7f05ae6c-b329-11eb-9f0f-ab6d9162c501/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>HOW HE WAS OSTRACIZED BY HIS CHURCH</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>EVANGELIST CARLTON PEARSON SHARES HIS STORY:
 HOW HE WAS OSTRACIZED BY HIS CHURCH
 
NOW THE MOVIE…

 Evangelist Carlton Pearson is ostracized by his church for preaching that there is no Hell.
   Bishop Carlton Pearson
  Carlton Pearson is a native of San Diego California, where he spent the first 18 years of his life with his parents and five siblings.
 After studying at the Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he majored in Bible Literature English Bible, he served as Associate evangelist for the Oral Roberts Association and the ORU Board of Regents for 15 years on its Board of Regents. He has received several honorary doctoral degrees.
 After a shifting to what Carlton calls “Expanded Consciousness”, his ministry changed dramatically, causing the re-inventing, re-positioning and re-branding of himself and his focus. He likes to call himself a Sacred Activist and Spiritual Progressive and is a strong proponent of Justice and Peace issues.
 Presently, his life story serves as the basis for the Netflix original movie produced by ENGAME and NPR titled “Come Sunday” highlighting his personal story about the shift in his ministry to Radical Inclusion insisting that Christians are not the only people who will experience eternal life. The movie premiered at the Sundance Film Festival on January 21, 2018 and will be released on Netflix on April 13, 2018.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>EVANGELIST CARLTON PEARSON SHARES HIS STORY:</strong></h1> <h1><strong>HOW HE WAS OSTRACIZED BY HIS CHURCH</strong></h1> <h1>
<strong>NOW </strong><strong>THE MOVIE…</strong>
</h1> <p><em><strong>Evangelist Carlton Pearson</strong> is ostracized by his church for preaching that there is no Hell.</em></p>   <p>Bishop Carlton Pearson</p>  <p><strong>Carlton Pearson</strong> is a native of San Diego California, where he spent the first 18 years of his life with his parents and five siblings.</p> <p>After studying at the Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he majored in Bible Literature English Bible, he served as Associate evangelist for the Oral Roberts Association and the ORU Board of Regents for 15 years on its Board of Regents. He has received several honorary doctoral degrees.</p> <p>After a shifting to what Carlton calls “Expanded Consciousness”, his ministry changed dramatically, causing the re-inventing, re-positioning and re-branding of himself and his focus. He likes to call himself a Sacred Activist and Spiritual Progressive and is a strong proponent of Justice and Peace issues.</p> <p>Presently, his life story serves as the basis for the Netflix original movie produced by ENGAME and NPR titled “Come Sunday” highlighting his personal story about the shift in his ministry to Radical Inclusion insisting that Christians are not the only people who will experience eternal life. The movie premiered at the Sundance Film Festival on January 21, 2018 and will be released on Netflix on April 13, 2018.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3426</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7998538815.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Interview With Rev. Dr. Bishop William Willimon</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/interview-with-rev-dr-bishop-william-willimon</link>
      <description>Upgrading Leadership In Churches 
 Interview With Rev. Dr. Bishop William Willimon
  
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. Welcome to this version of The Nonprofit Exchange. We talk to leaders worldwide about their particular perspective in leadership, their expertise, and to hear from their perspective, from their seat that they led from for so many years. My guest today is Will Willimon, Dr. Reverend Will Willimon. We are sitting in Durham, North Carolina at the Duke Divinity School where Will will tell you a little bit about what he does here. He and I got connected a number of years ago when he came to north Alabama as a bishop, and I was serving in a Methodist church. We first got connected there. I have been extremely impressed with his writing, and we have interfaced a few times. You have even spoken at one of my events in Greensboro. Welcome, Will, to the Nonprofit Exchange.
 Will Willimon: Thank you.
 Hugh: It’s like when I go somewhere and say, “I’m Hugh Ballou. This is Will Willimon.” Tell us about yourself, your background, and why you’re here at the Duke Divinity School.
 Will: I’m a Methodist preacher from South Carolina. As a young preacher, I was summoned by Duke Divinity School. I came up here and joined the faculty back in the ‘70s to teach worship. Didn’t like teaching full-time, so I went back in a parish in South Carolina. Then again Duke called me to the pulpit of Duke Chapel, and I was there 20 years. It was my first experience with a ministry that large, a budget that large, a staff that large. From there, I was a bishop. After being a bishop for eight years, I was invited back to Duke. I teach courses in preaching and mission. I also teach a class for ordained leadership, and for the doctor of ministry, I teach a leadership class. In my latter years, I find myself moving more into leadership. In fact, in my mind, I think every class I teach here at Duke Divinity School is a leadership class because I think leadership is utterly necessary for ordained clergy to be leaders, but often that is something they say they don’t get in divinity school. It’s right at the top of the clergy list of skills they wish they had more of.
 Hugh: That’s amazing. As people go into this meaningful work in ministry, first off, it’s very difficult work. It’s very challenging work. Let’s go back a minute. We talked about leadership. I want you to define leadership. I also want to ask you about what do you think from interviewing pastors that have been in churches for a while, what do they think they wish they had known before they started? Define leadership. Then what are you hearing from preachers out there they wish they had gotten from this class you’re teaching?
 Will: I hear pastors complain about administration. That consumes too much of their time, they don’t enjoy doing it, they had no training in how to administer well. Larger church pastors, whenever you’re together, the talk always gets to staff: staff problems, problematic people on staff, hiring people, holding people accountable, all those things you got to do in supervision. I think few pastors come into the ministry saying, “God is calling me to administer a church.” And yet that is the work you find yourself in.
 Another problem is I know when I went into ministry, my vision of myself was I will be a part of a small rural congregation in South Carolina. I hope I’ll have a part-time secretary. That would be wonderful. Then you wake up one day like I did at Duke Chapel, and I had 30 human beings that I was supposed to be supervising and orchestrating and coordinating and leading. That was when I reached out and tried to get better leadership administrative skills. Probably should have reached out sooner. I hear about administration.
 Then I hear pastors complaining about conflicted congregations, congregations that don’t seem to respect their authority and leadership. This whole complex set of things that leaders, managers, administrators have to do. I hear a lot of that.
 You mentioned that being a pastoral leader is hard. I agree. However, there are times I think when pastors get together and complain, whine about administrative leadership difficulties thinking this is what everybody faces who works with human beings that have some tasks assigned to them, some mission they are engaged in. Maybe the surprising thing is that pastors are surprised this is the world.
 Hugh: This is the work. It’s with people. Years ago, I interviewed you for an article I was doing for a magazine on the topic of conflict. We were talking about particularly how pastors do or don’t approach conflict. One of the statements you made was typically, pastors want to move away from conflict. One of the people I interviewed on the podcast was a woman named Dr. Roberta Gilbert. She was a psychiatrist and a colleague of Murray Bowen. I don’t know if you-
 Will: I know Bowen theory, yeah.
 Hugh: I have been studying it for nine years. She was on this series of podcasts. What she helped me realize was that we move toward conflict, remaining calm, sticking to the facts. Instead of avoiding it, moving toward that. I found that Bowen systems is a way to know self, so it helped me to reframe some of my leadership. But conflict is one of the things that exists in any human system like Bowen talks about. Part of what that theory helped me do was he calls differentiation of self. What are our principles? That is a really foundational piece for leadership is defining self.
 Will: Agreed. For pastors, self-knowledge is a never-ending task. It may be complicated by the fact that for pastors, we have lots of opportunities to be self-deceitful if we want to be. One, I think people aid us in our self-deceit as they say to us, “You’re just so loving and caring. We have never had a pastor like you.” Pushing all those buttons. Then you start to believe that. It is a halo effect.
 I was in a church recently that has severe problems with decline and severe problems with their staff being unable to step up. The first thing the pastor said was, “We have a wonderful staff here. I feel so privileged to be working with them.” I’m thinking that from one angle, that sounds charitable, and you seem to be a charitable person. You’re thinking positively about these people. From another angle though, let’s be honest, you don’t want to do the work that would be required by being truthful, that you’ve hired the wrong people, you are going to have some painful conversations, you need to make some moves. Rather than do that work, you are going to say, “We have a wonderful staff, and we are all Christians.” I love that self-knowledge.
 For instance, in a leadership class I teach here, two thirds of the class always admits they have problems with conflict. Much of the class says one of the appeals of Christian ministry is that they could do this without hurting people. In business, you have to fire people. I know it sounds ridiculous as you know the church. I try to say it’s very important to own that. I put it on my list, too, with clergy.
 I think we clergy think of ourselves as powerless people. We look at our paycheck and say we don’t have much influence or power or they’d be paying me more. It’s easy for us to say there is a problem of the staff, that it’s for the personnel committee. They deal with this; since I’m the pastor, I don’t deal with that. I think that can be very dangerous.
 One of my jobs as a bishop was to discipline errant clergy who had moral lapses, and invariably, the image was, “I am just a loving, caring pastor. I couldn’t hurt anybody.” That is dangerous. It’s important for pastors to own who they are, the power they have. Use that power carefully. Self-knowledge is a big deal. I don’t know if the president of General Motors has to know thyself, as Socrates advised, but pastors do. There are so many opportunities for deceit, for those moments where you say: I am telling you this for your own good and because I love you. Probably more typical is for pastors to say in response to when I ask “Why didn’t you tell the truth? Why didn’t you share the facts?” “Oh, I am such a loving, caring person. I didn’t want to hurt this person.” We pastors have many resources for deceiving ourselves about our real motives.
 Hugh: Along that channel, I find that the really best leaders have a confidential advisor or coach, a mentor, somebody that helps them discover their blind spots because they are called blind spots for a good reason. That would be one of them. It’s an accountability partner.
 Will: Good advice. I remember we had a consultant in Alabama, and he educated us during a day about what it takes to revitalize a moribund, static, plateaued congregation. You gotta do this and this and this. Have these discussions, these strategies. At the end of the day, at the bottom of the list he put- His voice raised and he said, “None of this can be done by yourself. You’ve got to get external assistance. You have to get a coach, an advisor, a mentor. You have to get somebody who is not embedded with you, somebody who has no power in that configuration.” I sure found that to be true.
 As Alabama’s bishop, the church gave me a job but I had no training, and as you can see, very few gifts. I had 800 pastors, 600 churches. It was a leadership management nightmare. After a couple months, I got a retired business executive. I asked, “Bill, what’d you make your last year at the life insurance company?” He said, “About $400,000.” I said, “Well, I’m prepared to offer you $20,000 to work with me and to be my coach, to be my advisor. God wants you to do this. God has told me to tell you to do this. You wouldn’t want to disappoint the Lord, would you?” He said, “Wow, you really do need an advisor if that’s your attitude about things.” It was wonderful. He had an office near mine. Bill went with me to meetings. He sat at the back of the room usually, took notes. We would have an evaluation after the meeting. He would say things to me like, “Once again, you talked about a third of the time, and two thirds of the time, they were talking.” Or he would say things to me like, “You know, you’re asking less questions than you did when we first started. I think you have to discipline yourself to ask more questions and make fewer declarative statements. Your questions are not as good as they were in the early days. I’m afraid you’re falling into the trap of thinking you know what’s going on now. No, you don’t.” Because that is a moving target, people are being deceptive, and they don’t even know they are being deceptive. It was wonderful.
 The trouble with being a bishop is it is really hard to find anybody who will tell you the truth, except generally your most severe critics whom you can’t stand because they are so critical. Bill was wonderful. Now, when any pastor says to me things like, “Oh, this church. I tried this, and it didn’t work.” “Let me stop you right there. I know where you’re going with this. I am going to recommend you get a coach. You get some help. Let me just stop you right there and talk about the help.” I’m just not sure pastors can do much of anything without somebody coming in from the outside and making the work as difficult as Jesus means it to be. I use that phrase a lot. If the work assigned to us was simply to be a loving, caring group of people, a lot of churches are a loving, caring group of people because that’s all the pastor knows how to lead, the pastor is uncomfortable around anybody in their twenties, so therefore the pastor ends up spending a lot of time with people my age. Unfortunately, Jesus Christ, the work he has given us to do, the mission is much more demanding than that. There is going to be disagreements. There will be crises, not simply because people are hard to work with, which they are, but because Jesus Christ is hard to work with. He won’t let us be the men’s garden club. I keep trying and thinking about leadership.
 What difference does it make that we are Christian doing this? How is our leadership of a different quality than, say, leadership by a well-meaning humanist or something? That is a hard question to answer, but nevertheless, I think it important for clergy.
 Hugh: It is. We take sound leadership business principles, and we learn from them. When we put them in the church, they are different because it is the church. There are things we can learn. In my conversations with Jim Forbes, a pastor from Riverside, New York, he said, “We need for our spiritual journey experience 15-20% outside of our discipline.” Talk about the coach so we don’t get stale and blind. Nothing else is there. This is what I know. Part of what Bishop Joe said to us at Blacksburg is the Methodist Church was losing 1,200 members a week in America. We get on a track where we think this is how it ought to go, but it’s not working. We have sat ourselves up for failure. Some of the gaps in leadership.
 When I talked to Cal Turner, and he has talked to the council of bishops, he went to his leadership team at Dollar General and said, “I am the son of the boss. I got this because I am son of the boss.” He was president and chairman of the board. “You have the skills. I have the vision.” He claimed the vision, but he said that he wanted them to do this. Everybody stepped up. Cal said, “Hugh, leadership is about defining your gaps and finding really good people to fill them.” He also pointed out that transparency is- You’re not whiny, but he was very straightforward. They know. They know you don’t know it. Why pretend? If I didn’t tell them, they would be like, “Well, I’ll show him.” There is this vision thing.
 I worked with Dick Wills when he was bishop in Tennessee. We were talking about a cabin retreat. I was talking about the vision for that since I was leading it. He said, “The cabinet is not going to develop the vision. I didn’t see anywhere in the Bible where God gave the vision to a committee. Here is the vision.” That is the vision piece. I don’t think the great commandment is your mission. That is a commandment. That is a commission. That is not a choice. Paul Borden said that when you brought him in to talk to north Alabama. That is not a choice.
 What is it that God has called this church or organization? We are talking about leadership in the church. There are some unique differences, but there are some global differences for anybody leading any organization. A lot of what you are talking about corporate leaders have trouble with, too. Talk about the pastor.
 Back to Bowen systems. There is this pseudo self and basic self. We want to please people, so we go into pleaser mode, which is a downward spiral, rather than going with our principles and making the right decisions for the right reason. Not pulling people in and saying, “This is not how we do things.” It’s a pleaser personality. You did say to me in that interview a while back that in addition to avoiding conflict, it gets worse as it goes on. You also said that conflict is the sign of energy in an organization. We don’t ever eliminate it. We are energetic people.
 Managing this and addressing it, I think we misunderstand words. One word is we need to confront the conflict. The root of it is with your front. It doesn’t mean you hit them with a baseball bat. With your front means approach it directly, calmly, and openly, stating the facts. There is a huge challenge I see in this area you’re talking about. How can pastors equip themselves, besides having a good coach? I suggest it doesn’t always have to be clergy.
 Will: You can have coaches. When pastors talk about difficulty of personalities, because you have graduated from divinity school, you have had zero training in how to handle people, how to hold people accountable, how to have difficult conversations with people about their work. But I guarantee you you have people in your church that God has called to the ministry or personnel work. Draw on them. Commission them to do this with you. There is an arrogance behind the pastor who says, “I have hands laying on my head. I’m good at preaching and administration and budgetary oversight.” With one meeting with the finance committee, I was thinking I have always disliked people like you in high school who were always talking about some really interesting math problem in homework. I’m no good in math. That is one reason I went into the ministry to avoid that. Any wonderful guy who has called you. This is what you’re good at. Let me give you that authority to do that.
 As you were talking, you talked about good business principles and how they are different in the church. That is so true. However, I don’t want to let us clergy off the hook by saying a frequent way- It’s either arrogance or evasiveness. “Wait, remember now, the church is not a business.” That is just a cop-out for saying, “I am so arrogant I am not going to submit to instruction. I am not going to learn.” You were talking about conflict. You can get better at managing conflict. There are certain things you can learn. You do this, then you do this, then you do this. You develop an attitude, which doesn’t say, “There is conflict. I did something wrong,” but rather, “There is some heat being generated here. I can feel it. Maybe I am doing something right.” There have been moments in my ministry where I swear it’s like Jesus says to me, “Gosh, ain’t it a shame that I didn’t have your personality. Maybe I wouldn’t have ended up like I did on the cross.”
 Sometimes, good management leadership principles can be overruled by the theological missional commitments of the church. I remember when I was weighing into the immigration fight in Alabama, taking on Jeff Sessions. My management coach said, “Ah, really, at this time, I hate to see you get into this.” I said, “Well, the better clergy are asking me to get into this with him.” He said, “This is one of those moment when I realize that this is more than about good management coaching. This is about the gospel and Jesus Christ. I guarantee you you’re going to do this because I know you. This is where I realize I’m not ordained. I’m not clergy. At your best, you think like clergy. I just want to say now as you go into this, know that you will come into some casualties and take some hits and expend some of your capital, but it sounds like you think this is right.”
 Part of being clergy is applying theological and knowing- In the class I was just teaching, I had Douglas Campbell, who is our great New Testament scholar here, talking about conflict. He was talking about how Paul served a multi-cultural diverse church. He said, “Boy, it’s all blowing up in his face. You have people with Pagan values and Pagan ethics, and you have Jewish Christians, and Gentile Christians. They are fighting it out with each other over who is a real Christian.” A number of the pastors in the program said, “I’ve been there. I am there.” Then Douglas said, “You know, maybe Paul would say, ‘If you’re in a placid, content, homogeneous church, you ain’t much of a missionary, are you? You’re not much of an Evangelist.’ The testimony to how effective Paul was is the squabbles going on, the conflict they’re having.” I thought that was a great way to put it. If my church doesn’t have any conflict over racial issues or political issues, you better check out your Evangelistic leadership because Jesus Christ is about wider business than simply a happy club of older adults.
 Hugh: That’s what separates us from being a social club.
 Will: Absolutely. We usually say, “We have love, harmony,” yeah. But if that love and harmony is by our disobeying Christ’s commission, it’s wrong. You mentioned Paul Borden. I loved him in a church leadership on testosterone way. I remember one of my pastors saying to Paul, “You can’t be captured by the older adults in your congregation. You have to free yourself from that. You have to ask yourself, every time you go to the hospital to visit those shut-ins, who are you not visiting? Who are the conversations you’re not having?” One of the pastors said, “Paul, don’t you think there is something to be said for honoring the sacrifices and love of those dear people who built this church?” Paul said, “No, the church does not exist to honor any human being. The church exists to honor Jesus Christ.” Paul whacks him to the thing he says, “Some of you should have gone into nursing. Maybe you can empty bedpans, do nice things for people. This is better than that. You are a preacher of the word of God.” I don’t know how the group perceived that, but I was thinking it is good to be-
 Sometimes it is good to be reminded that God has called me for more than an efficient, well-run organization. Again, I’m not trying to dismiss leadership management incompetence. For me, preaching was the thing that kept calling me back to say, “I am not simply aspiring to be a manager of an efficient volunteer organization. I am a spokesperson for God. I am the one that says, Okay people, we are gathered again before the scriptures. How are we being challenged?”
 Hugh: Our duty and delight is to do meaningful work and to challenge people. I am thinking Reinhold Niebuhr, “Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.”
 Will: Quoting Reinhold Niebuhr reminds me of his book, Leaves from the Notebook of a Tamed Cynic. But in there, he says something that has challenged me throughout my ministry. “Before I became a pastor, I thought there were so many boring and tame sermons because preachers were cowards. You have to be careful about how you say things. Now that I have become a pastor, I realized the source of bad preaching is love. You start to love these people, you are with them. You have a front row seat on their misery. The last thing you want to do in a sermon is make them more miserable. That is why there is so many boring and tame sermons.”
 Not sure if he was right about his characterization of prophets in Israel, but I found that so challenging that many of the really unfaithful things pastors do and lead, they blame it on love. I’m not telling this congregation the truth about their future, the fact that they have no future or very little future because I love them. They are some of the sweetest people. It complexifies leadership and Jesus’ name. it also says to me now. Be honest, here. You have noted that when you tell people painful truths, what do they do? They come back at you, and they start telling you painful truths. Then where would we be? We might be something on the way to being the body of Christ where the church says, “We are not only loving and caring and friendly; we are also truthful to a degree that you can’t get without the holy spirit working in you.”
 Hugh: We’re also not truthful in how we interpret the Bible. Paul Borden challenged the great commission is not your mission, it’s a choice. Richard Rohr or John Bishop, they talk about how we hijack scripture for our own purposes-
 Will: We do.
 Hugh: -as leaders. We misinterpret that. That is a built-in liability.
 You spoke about power earlier. I want to ask about that in a minute. I find a lot of leaders are unaware of the power differentiation. The pastor is an influencer of power, whether they know it or not. We get in trouble with relationships. We get in trouble with money. We get in trouble with authority because we are not aware that we have a position of power with what we do.
 In my church in Atlanta that I served, the session, which is the ruling body of the Presbyterian church, were Sotheby executives who abdicated their authority to the pastor, which is not in the book of order. He has one vote. The teaching elder gets equal votes. They abdicated because he was the CEO. It was that power position that they gave into. They didn’t know how to be the board. But he got things done. He died at 63 because he really wore out his body. He worked hard and grew that church. It was a great delight to know him. I do find that typically clergy especially are unaware that they do have this position of power. What they say has a lot more weight. How does that get us in trouble?
 Will: It’s dangerous- It’s also so important to own your power and use it responsibly. We give policemen guns, but then we really expect them to be very careful in using the firearm. When I am ordained in the Methodist church, the bishop says, “Take thou authority to preach the word. Take thou authority to administer the sacraments.” The bishop should have said, “Take care with thou authority we’re giving you.”
 It amazes me that illustration is fascinating. I have been on boards of colleges where you have these powerful executives on the board. It’s like they walk into a church meeting and turn off their brains and become docile, smiling people. Some of them will say, “It’s the church. It’s not like a business.” I say, “I think it should be more like a business. By the way, I guarantee your business for any of its ethical failings would never do anything this unethical that is going on right now in the treatment of staff or whatever. Come on. Be an executive. Use your power.
 I watched a little college go just about down the drain because of a board sitting there saying, “He is the president, and he has his Ph. D. I just have my B.A. degree, so what do I know?” They tolerated behavior they would never have tolerated in their bank or whatever. Knowledge of power, clergy moral abuse.
 I remember a dean of a medical school told me one time, “The purpose of medical education, morally speaking, is to produce people who can be alone with naked people and not take advantage of them.” I said, “Turn around. You see the divinity school. We do that in three years for a lot less money than you charge to do that.” I thought it was a great- Clergy are around naked people a lot, vulnerable people a lot. To take advantage of that vulnerability is a heinous act that requires removal from ministry. We can never- You violated a whole thing. Oftentimes, when I have been involved in disciplining clergy, the self-image the clergy person has is, “Me? No, I’m just- She said she was lonely, and her marriage was unhappy. I’m in the business of loving. So I tried to love.” I said, “That is your explanation for what occurred on your desk?” “Yes.” “That is horrible. Goodbye.” It is a big issue.
 In the congregation, I do think one thing we clergy have to be savvy about is power, power inequalities, power dynamics. Who are the powerless people in the congregation who are not being heard and who are not speaking up? I remember a pastor turning around a congregation. A group came to him and said, “We don’t like this. We don’t like this.” He said, “Every one of you is over 65. You represent 70% of this congregation.” They said, “We certainly do. Glad you’ve noticed that.” He said, “I bet you represent 90% of the giving.” “We’re glad you noticed that, too.” “If this church is going to live another day, I have to ignore you as much as I can. I’ve just met with the pitifully six people we have in this congregation in their 20s. Here is what I have heard from them. We could lose those few people. I have challenged them to double their numbers this year. Here is what they tell me we need to do. For the good of this church, I am going to have to take my orders from them. I hope you’ll understand that. I hope you’ll see that by my doing that, I am giving this church another day.” That struck me as somebody understanding power and saying, “I have to discipline myself not to let you have the power that determines the mission of this church.”
 Hugh: That is not a typical decision though.
 Will: I honored this pastor. Teach me how to do more of that.
 One other thing you said is one thing as a bishop, my coach said to me, “You’ve been an academic. The way you guys think about stuff is with your mouth open. You say, ‘Hey, this is an interesting idea. I want to know how you feel about that.’ You can do that in your old job, but you can’t do that in your new job. In your new job, when you say to them like you did in a meeting, ‘Hey, I’m thinking why don’t we have district offices? I think you guys ought to be in your car more than in your office. You have to be in the district.’ So why don’t we make district offices? It was breathtaking. Everybody there froze and said, ‘You have a job now where you have power. You could actually do that if you wanted to.’ You have to be a bit more careful about the stuff you throw out. If you want to shock them, if you want to steamroll them, you have the power to do it. I believe you’ll end up paying a heavy price for that.” It was a great thing to say. You’re the bishop. You could move them to Timbuktu if you’re unhappy with them. They know it.
 Hugh: Leaders do that not only in the church, but also in other charities, and are totally unaware of their consequences of those actions.
 Will: That’s a good word, consequences.
 Hugh: There are consequences, and they are unaware of them. I want to close this interview out with two more questions. Recently, there was an article in the Washington Post that said at its current trajectory, mainline denominations have 23 Easters left. That is a pretty sobering thought whether it’s true or not. What do leaders in mainline churches need to do to turn that trend around?
 Will: Ooh. I have a long list. A bunch of stuff. Today, I would say: One is we have to look at the painful, ugly stuff, like that statistic. We have to stop lying. We have to find a way to tell difficult truths to people whom we love. Again, I’m a preacher. That is what I think I do every week is stand up and tell difficult truths from Jesus to people that I love, many of them. We ought to be good at this.
 I think in a sense we ought to be made to stare at that and think, I can’t be this kind of leader that I thought I was trying to be. Pastors would often say to me, “This is not the same church I signed on with. I tell you what, when I joined, I didn’t sign on for this.” What a dumb statement. We serve a living God for one thing, and not of the dead. But also, every leader has got to constantly retool, constantly go back to school, constantly start over, constantly ditch these principles that worked great at my last job. They are inappropriate at this one. Get used to it.
 I start my ordained leadership class by saying to them, “I am going to try to share with you what I think I‘ve learned. A lot of it I learned the hard way. Maybe it will help you avoid some of my mistakes. You will get tired of the pontificating and the stories about Alabama, but you need to use that. You take that in. About 50% of that is going to be wrong. You can’t serve the same church I served. You can’t do what I did. There are people here in their 20s who don’t know a lot about ministry, but you know more than I do about the future. That is your job in this class. You take in what I’ve got, and you sort through it. But you also keep your eyes on the future of things. The Lord is taking me out of this game. But He is sending you in. Step up and take responsibility.”
 That is the move I think we got to make. We will not have a future in mainline Protestantism unless we can do that. I must say I’m more impressed by local pastors in little out of the way places that are finding a way to lead into the future. I’m more impressed than I am about seminaries and all.
 Hugh: Hey there, it’s Hugh Ballou. Wasn’t that a great interview with Dr. William Willimon? We lost the last few seconds when I said thank you and goodbye because of a technical glitch, but you had all this great content.
  
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      <pubDate>Sun, 11 Feb 2018 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7f1a6f64-b329-11eb-9f0f-c795c012f2e1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Upgrading Leadership In Churches </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Upgrading Leadership In Churches 
 Interview With Rev. Dr. Bishop William Willimon
  
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. Welcome to this version of The Nonprofit Exchange. We talk to leaders worldwide about their particular perspective in leadership, their expertise, and to hear from their perspective, from their seat that they led from for so many years. My guest today is Will Willimon, Dr. Reverend Will Willimon. We are sitting in Durham, North Carolina at the Duke Divinity School where Will will tell you a little bit about what he does here. He and I got connected a number of years ago when he came to north Alabama as a bishop, and I was serving in a Methodist church. We first got connected there. I have been extremely impressed with his writing, and we have interfaced a few times. You have even spoken at one of my events in Greensboro. Welcome, Will, to the Nonprofit Exchange.
 Will Willimon: Thank you.
 Hugh: It’s like when I go somewhere and say, “I’m Hugh Ballou. This is Will Willimon.” Tell us about yourself, your background, and why you’re here at the Duke Divinity School.
 Will: I’m a Methodist preacher from South Carolina. As a young preacher, I was summoned by Duke Divinity School. I came up here and joined the faculty back in the ‘70s to teach worship. Didn’t like teaching full-time, so I went back in a parish in South Carolina. Then again Duke called me to the pulpit of Duke Chapel, and I was there 20 years. It was my first experience with a ministry that large, a budget that large, a staff that large. From there, I was a bishop. After being a bishop for eight years, I was invited back to Duke. I teach courses in preaching and mission. I also teach a class for ordained leadership, and for the doctor of ministry, I teach a leadership class. In my latter years, I find myself moving more into leadership. In fact, in my mind, I think every class I teach here at Duke Divinity School is a leadership class because I think leadership is utterly necessary for ordained clergy to be leaders, but often that is something they say they don’t get in divinity school. It’s right at the top of the clergy list of skills they wish they had more of.
 Hugh: That’s amazing. As people go into this meaningful work in ministry, first off, it’s very difficult work. It’s very challenging work. Let’s go back a minute. We talked about leadership. I want you to define leadership. I also want to ask you about what do you think from interviewing pastors that have been in churches for a while, what do they think they wish they had known before they started? Define leadership. Then what are you hearing from preachers out there they wish they had gotten from this class you’re teaching?
 Will: I hear pastors complain about administration. That consumes too much of their time, they don’t enjoy doing it, they had no training in how to administer well. Larger church pastors, whenever you’re together, the talk always gets to staff: staff problems, problematic people on staff, hiring people, holding people accountable, all those things you got to do in supervision. I think few pastors come into the ministry saying, “God is calling me to administer a church.” And yet that is the work you find yourself in.
 Another problem is I know when I went into ministry, my vision of myself was I will be a part of a small rural congregation in South Carolina. I hope I’ll have a part-time secretary. That would be wonderful. Then you wake up one day like I did at Duke Chapel, and I had 30 human beings that I was supposed to be supervising and orchestrating and coordinating and leading. That was when I reached out and tried to get better leadership administrative skills. Probably should have reached out sooner. I hear about administration.
 Then I hear pastors complaining about conflicted congregations, congregations that don’t seem to respect their authority and leadership. This whole complex set of things that leaders, managers, administrators have to do. I hear a lot of that.
 You mentioned that being a pastoral leader is hard. I agree. However, there are times I think when pastors get together and complain, whine about administrative leadership difficulties thinking this is what everybody faces who works with human beings that have some tasks assigned to them, some mission they are engaged in. Maybe the surprising thing is that pastors are surprised this is the world.
 Hugh: This is the work. It’s with people. Years ago, I interviewed you for an article I was doing for a magazine on the topic of conflict. We were talking about particularly how pastors do or don’t approach conflict. One of the statements you made was typically, pastors want to move away from conflict. One of the people I interviewed on the podcast was a woman named Dr. Roberta Gilbert. She was a psychiatrist and a colleague of Murray Bowen. I don’t know if you-
 Will: I know Bowen theory, yeah.
 Hugh: I have been studying it for nine years. She was on this series of podcasts. What she helped me realize was that we move toward conflict, remaining calm, sticking to the facts. Instead of avoiding it, moving toward that. I found that Bowen systems is a way to know self, so it helped me to reframe some of my leadership. But conflict is one of the things that exists in any human system like Bowen talks about. Part of what that theory helped me do was he calls differentiation of self. What are our principles? That is a really foundational piece for leadership is defining self.
 Will: Agreed. For pastors, self-knowledge is a never-ending task. It may be complicated by the fact that for pastors, we have lots of opportunities to be self-deceitful if we want to be. One, I think people aid us in our self-deceit as they say to us, “You’re just so loving and caring. We have never had a pastor like you.” Pushing all those buttons. Then you start to believe that. It is a halo effect.
 I was in a church recently that has severe problems with decline and severe problems with their staff being unable to step up. The first thing the pastor said was, “We have a wonderful staff here. I feel so privileged to be working with them.” I’m thinking that from one angle, that sounds charitable, and you seem to be a charitable person. You’re thinking positively about these people. From another angle though, let’s be honest, you don’t want to do the work that would be required by being truthful, that you’ve hired the wrong people, you are going to have some painful conversations, you need to make some moves. Rather than do that work, you are going to say, “We have a wonderful staff, and we are all Christians.” I love that self-knowledge.
 For instance, in a leadership class I teach here, two thirds of the class always admits they have problems with conflict. Much of the class says one of the appeals of Christian ministry is that they could do this without hurting people. In business, you have to fire people. I know it sounds ridiculous as you know the church. I try to say it’s very important to own that. I put it on my list, too, with clergy.
 I think we clergy think of ourselves as powerless people. We look at our paycheck and say we don’t have much influence or power or they’d be paying me more. It’s easy for us to say there is a problem of the staff, that it’s for the personnel committee. They deal with this; since I’m the pastor, I don’t deal with that. I think that can be very dangerous.
 One of my jobs as a bishop was to discipline errant clergy who had moral lapses, and invariably, the image was, “I am just a loving, caring pastor. I couldn’t hurt anybody.” That is dangerous. It’s important for pastors to own who they are, the power they have. Use that power carefully. Self-knowledge is a big deal. I don’t know if the president of General Motors has to know thyself, as Socrates advised, but pastors do. There are so many opportunities for deceit, for those moments where you say: I am telling you this for your own good and because I love you. Probably more typical is for pastors to say in response to when I ask “Why didn’t you tell the truth? Why didn’t you share the facts?” “Oh, I am such a loving, caring person. I didn’t want to hurt this person.” We pastors have many resources for deceiving ourselves about our real motives.
 Hugh: Along that channel, I find that the really best leaders have a confidential advisor or coach, a mentor, somebody that helps them discover their blind spots because they are called blind spots for a good reason. That would be one of them. It’s an accountability partner.
 Will: Good advice. I remember we had a consultant in Alabama, and he educated us during a day about what it takes to revitalize a moribund, static, plateaued congregation. You gotta do this and this and this. Have these discussions, these strategies. At the end of the day, at the bottom of the list he put- His voice raised and he said, “None of this can be done by yourself. You’ve got to get external assistance. You have to get a coach, an advisor, a mentor. You have to get somebody who is not embedded with you, somebody who has no power in that configuration.” I sure found that to be true.
 As Alabama’s bishop, the church gave me a job but I had no training, and as you can see, very few gifts. I had 800 pastors, 600 churches. It was a leadership management nightmare. After a couple months, I got a retired business executive. I asked, “Bill, what’d you make your last year at the life insurance company?” He said, “About $400,000.” I said, “Well, I’m prepared to offer you $20,000 to work with me and to be my coach, to be my advisor. God wants you to do this. God has told me to tell you to do this. You wouldn’t want to disappoint the Lord, would you?” He said, “Wow, you really do need an advisor if that’s your attitude about things.” It was wonderful. He had an office near mine. Bill went with me to meetings. He sat at the back of the room usually, took notes. We would have an evaluation after the meeting. He would say things to me like, “Once again, you talked about a third of the time, and two thirds of the time, they were talking.” Or he would say things to me like, “You know, you’re asking less questions than you did when we first started. I think you have to discipline yourself to ask more questions and make fewer declarative statements. Your questions are not as good as they were in the early days. I’m afraid you’re falling into the trap of thinking you know what’s going on now. No, you don’t.” Because that is a moving target, people are being deceptive, and they don’t even know they are being deceptive. It was wonderful.
 The trouble with being a bishop is it is really hard to find anybody who will tell you the truth, except generally your most severe critics whom you can’t stand because they are so critical. Bill was wonderful. Now, when any pastor says to me things like, “Oh, this church. I tried this, and it didn’t work.” “Let me stop you right there. I know where you’re going with this. I am going to recommend you get a coach. You get some help. Let me just stop you right there and talk about the help.” I’m just not sure pastors can do much of anything without somebody coming in from the outside and making the work as difficult as Jesus means it to be. I use that phrase a lot. If the work assigned to us was simply to be a loving, caring group of people, a lot of churches are a loving, caring group of people because that’s all the pastor knows how to lead, the pastor is uncomfortable around anybody in their twenties, so therefore the pastor ends up spending a lot of time with people my age. Unfortunately, Jesus Christ, the work he has given us to do, the mission is much more demanding than that. There is going to be disagreements. There will be crises, not simply because people are hard to work with, which they are, but because Jesus Christ is hard to work with. He won’t let us be the men’s garden club. I keep trying and thinking about leadership.
 What difference does it make that we are Christian doing this? How is our leadership of a different quality than, say, leadership by a well-meaning humanist or something? That is a hard question to answer, but nevertheless, I think it important for clergy.
 Hugh: It is. We take sound leadership business principles, and we learn from them. When we put them in the church, they are different because it is the church. There are things we can learn. In my conversations with Jim Forbes, a pastor from Riverside, New York, he said, “We need for our spiritual journey experience 15-20% outside of our discipline.” Talk about the coach so we don’t get stale and blind. Nothing else is there. This is what I know. Part of what Bishop Joe said to us at Blacksburg is the Methodist Church was losing 1,200 members a week in America. We get on a track where we think this is how it ought to go, but it’s not working. We have sat ourselves up for failure. Some of the gaps in leadership.
 When I talked to Cal Turner, and he has talked to the council of bishops, he went to his leadership team at Dollar General and said, “I am the son of the boss. I got this because I am son of the boss.” He was president and chairman of the board. “You have the skills. I have the vision.” He claimed the vision, but he said that he wanted them to do this. Everybody stepped up. Cal said, “Hugh, leadership is about defining your gaps and finding really good people to fill them.” He also pointed out that transparency is- You’re not whiny, but he was very straightforward. They know. They know you don’t know it. Why pretend? If I didn’t tell them, they would be like, “Well, I’ll show him.” There is this vision thing.
 I worked with Dick Wills when he was bishop in Tennessee. We were talking about a cabin retreat. I was talking about the vision for that since I was leading it. He said, “The cabinet is not going to develop the vision. I didn’t see anywhere in the Bible where God gave the vision to a committee. Here is the vision.” That is the vision piece. I don’t think the great commandment is your mission. That is a commandment. That is a commission. That is not a choice. Paul Borden said that when you brought him in to talk to north Alabama. That is not a choice.
 What is it that God has called this church or organization? We are talking about leadership in the church. There are some unique differences, but there are some global differences for anybody leading any organization. A lot of what you are talking about corporate leaders have trouble with, too. Talk about the pastor.
 Back to Bowen systems. There is this pseudo self and basic self. We want to please people, so we go into pleaser mode, which is a downward spiral, rather than going with our principles and making the right decisions for the right reason. Not pulling people in and saying, “This is not how we do things.” It’s a pleaser personality. You did say to me in that interview a while back that in addition to avoiding conflict, it gets worse as it goes on. You also said that conflict is the sign of energy in an organization. We don’t ever eliminate it. We are energetic people.
 Managing this and addressing it, I think we misunderstand words. One word is we need to confront the conflict. The root of it is with your front. It doesn’t mean you hit them with a baseball bat. With your front means approach it directly, calmly, and openly, stating the facts. There is a huge challenge I see in this area you’re talking about. How can pastors equip themselves, besides having a good coach? I suggest it doesn’t always have to be clergy.
 Will: You can have coaches. When pastors talk about difficulty of personalities, because you have graduated from divinity school, you have had zero training in how to handle people, how to hold people accountable, how to have difficult conversations with people about their work. But I guarantee you you have people in your church that God has called to the ministry or personnel work. Draw on them. Commission them to do this with you. There is an arrogance behind the pastor who says, “I have hands laying on my head. I’m good at preaching and administration and budgetary oversight.” With one meeting with the finance committee, I was thinking I have always disliked people like you in high school who were always talking about some really interesting math problem in homework. I’m no good in math. That is one reason I went into the ministry to avoid that. Any wonderful guy who has called you. This is what you’re good at. Let me give you that authority to do that.
 As you were talking, you talked about good business principles and how they are different in the church. That is so true. However, I don’t want to let us clergy off the hook by saying a frequent way- It’s either arrogance or evasiveness. “Wait, remember now, the church is not a business.” That is just a cop-out for saying, “I am so arrogant I am not going to submit to instruction. I am not going to learn.” You were talking about conflict. You can get better at managing conflict. There are certain things you can learn. You do this, then you do this, then you do this. You develop an attitude, which doesn’t say, “There is conflict. I did something wrong,” but rather, “There is some heat being generated here. I can feel it. Maybe I am doing something right.” There have been moments in my ministry where I swear it’s like Jesus says to me, “Gosh, ain’t it a shame that I didn’t have your personality. Maybe I wouldn’t have ended up like I did on the cross.”
 Sometimes, good management leadership principles can be overruled by the theological missional commitments of the church. I remember when I was weighing into the immigration fight in Alabama, taking on Jeff Sessions. My management coach said, “Ah, really, at this time, I hate to see you get into this.” I said, “Well, the better clergy are asking me to get into this with him.” He said, “This is one of those moment when I realize that this is more than about good management coaching. This is about the gospel and Jesus Christ. I guarantee you you’re going to do this because I know you. This is where I realize I’m not ordained. I’m not clergy. At your best, you think like clergy. I just want to say now as you go into this, know that you will come into some casualties and take some hits and expend some of your capital, but it sounds like you think this is right.”
 Part of being clergy is applying theological and knowing- In the class I was just teaching, I had Douglas Campbell, who is our great New Testament scholar here, talking about conflict. He was talking about how Paul served a multi-cultural diverse church. He said, “Boy, it’s all blowing up in his face. You have people with Pagan values and Pagan ethics, and you have Jewish Christians, and Gentile Christians. They are fighting it out with each other over who is a real Christian.” A number of the pastors in the program said, “I’ve been there. I am there.” Then Douglas said, “You know, maybe Paul would say, ‘If you’re in a placid, content, homogeneous church, you ain’t much of a missionary, are you? You’re not much of an Evangelist.’ The testimony to how effective Paul was is the squabbles going on, the conflict they’re having.” I thought that was a great way to put it. If my church doesn’t have any conflict over racial issues or political issues, you better check out your Evangelistic leadership because Jesus Christ is about wider business than simply a happy club of older adults.
 Hugh: That’s what separates us from being a social club.
 Will: Absolutely. We usually say, “We have love, harmony,” yeah. But if that love and harmony is by our disobeying Christ’s commission, it’s wrong. You mentioned Paul Borden. I loved him in a church leadership on testosterone way. I remember one of my pastors saying to Paul, “You can’t be captured by the older adults in your congregation. You have to free yourself from that. You have to ask yourself, every time you go to the hospital to visit those shut-ins, who are you not visiting? Who are the conversations you’re not having?” One of the pastors said, “Paul, don’t you think there is something to be said for honoring the sacrifices and love of those dear people who built this church?” Paul said, “No, the church does not exist to honor any human being. The church exists to honor Jesus Christ.” Paul whacks him to the thing he says, “Some of you should have gone into nursing. Maybe you can empty bedpans, do nice things for people. This is better than that. You are a preacher of the word of God.” I don’t know how the group perceived that, but I was thinking it is good to be-
 Sometimes it is good to be reminded that God has called me for more than an efficient, well-run organization. Again, I’m not trying to dismiss leadership management incompetence. For me, preaching was the thing that kept calling me back to say, “I am not simply aspiring to be a manager of an efficient volunteer organization. I am a spokesperson for God. I am the one that says, Okay people, we are gathered again before the scriptures. How are we being challenged?”
 Hugh: Our duty and delight is to do meaningful work and to challenge people. I am thinking Reinhold Niebuhr, “Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.”
 Will: Quoting Reinhold Niebuhr reminds me of his book, Leaves from the Notebook of a Tamed Cynic. But in there, he says something that has challenged me throughout my ministry. “Before I became a pastor, I thought there were so many boring and tame sermons because preachers were cowards. You have to be careful about how you say things. Now that I have become a pastor, I realized the source of bad preaching is love. You start to love these people, you are with them. You have a front row seat on their misery. The last thing you want to do in a sermon is make them more miserable. That is why there is so many boring and tame sermons.”
 Not sure if he was right about his characterization of prophets in Israel, but I found that so challenging that many of the really unfaithful things pastors do and lead, they blame it on love. I’m not telling this congregation the truth about their future, the fact that they have no future or very little future because I love them. They are some of the sweetest people. It complexifies leadership and Jesus’ name. it also says to me now. Be honest, here. You have noted that when you tell people painful truths, what do they do? They come back at you, and they start telling you painful truths. Then where would we be? We might be something on the way to being the body of Christ where the church says, “We are not only loving and caring and friendly; we are also truthful to a degree that you can’t get without the holy spirit working in you.”
 Hugh: We’re also not truthful in how we interpret the Bible. Paul Borden challenged the great commission is not your mission, it’s a choice. Richard Rohr or John Bishop, they talk about how we hijack scripture for our own purposes-
 Will: We do.
 Hugh: -as leaders. We misinterpret that. That is a built-in liability.
 You spoke about power earlier. I want to ask about that in a minute. I find a lot of leaders are unaware of the power differentiation. The pastor is an influencer of power, whether they know it or not. We get in trouble with relationships. We get in trouble with money. We get in trouble with authority because we are not aware that we have a position of power with what we do.
 In my church in Atlanta that I served, the session, which is the ruling body of the Presbyterian church, were Sotheby executives who abdicated their authority to the pastor, which is not in the book of order. He has one vote. The teaching elder gets equal votes. They abdicated because he was the CEO. It was that power position that they gave into. They didn’t know how to be the board. But he got things done. He died at 63 because he really wore out his body. He worked hard and grew that church. It was a great delight to know him. I do find that typically clergy especially are unaware that they do have this position of power. What they say has a lot more weight. How does that get us in trouble?
 Will: It’s dangerous- It’s also so important to own your power and use it responsibly. We give policemen guns, but then we really expect them to be very careful in using the firearm. When I am ordained in the Methodist church, the bishop says, “Take thou authority to preach the word. Take thou authority to administer the sacraments.” The bishop should have said, “Take care with thou authority we’re giving you.”
 It amazes me that illustration is fascinating. I have been on boards of colleges where you have these powerful executives on the board. It’s like they walk into a church meeting and turn off their brains and become docile, smiling people. Some of them will say, “It’s the church. It’s not like a business.” I say, “I think it should be more like a business. By the way, I guarantee your business for any of its ethical failings would never do anything this unethical that is going on right now in the treatment of staff or whatever. Come on. Be an executive. Use your power.
 I watched a little college go just about down the drain because of a board sitting there saying, “He is the president, and he has his Ph. D. I just have my B.A. degree, so what do I know?” They tolerated behavior they would never have tolerated in their bank or whatever. Knowledge of power, clergy moral abuse.
 I remember a dean of a medical school told me one time, “The purpose of medical education, morally speaking, is to produce people who can be alone with naked people and not take advantage of them.” I said, “Turn around. You see the divinity school. We do that in three years for a lot less money than you charge to do that.” I thought it was a great- Clergy are around naked people a lot, vulnerable people a lot. To take advantage of that vulnerability is a heinous act that requires removal from ministry. We can never- You violated a whole thing. Oftentimes, when I have been involved in disciplining clergy, the self-image the clergy person has is, “Me? No, I’m just- She said she was lonely, and her marriage was unhappy. I’m in the business of loving. So I tried to love.” I said, “That is your explanation for what occurred on your desk?” “Yes.” “That is horrible. Goodbye.” It is a big issue.
 In the congregation, I do think one thing we clergy have to be savvy about is power, power inequalities, power dynamics. Who are the powerless people in the congregation who are not being heard and who are not speaking up? I remember a pastor turning around a congregation. A group came to him and said, “We don’t like this. We don’t like this.” He said, “Every one of you is over 65. You represent 70% of this congregation.” They said, “We certainly do. Glad you’ve noticed that.” He said, “I bet you represent 90% of the giving.” “We’re glad you noticed that, too.” “If this church is going to live another day, I have to ignore you as much as I can. I’ve just met with the pitifully six people we have in this congregation in their 20s. Here is what I have heard from them. We could lose those few people. I have challenged them to double their numbers this year. Here is what they tell me we need to do. For the good of this church, I am going to have to take my orders from them. I hope you’ll understand that. I hope you’ll see that by my doing that, I am giving this church another day.” That struck me as somebody understanding power and saying, “I have to discipline myself not to let you have the power that determines the mission of this church.”
 Hugh: That is not a typical decision though.
 Will: I honored this pastor. Teach me how to do more of that.
 One other thing you said is one thing as a bishop, my coach said to me, “You’ve been an academic. The way you guys think about stuff is with your mouth open. You say, ‘Hey, this is an interesting idea. I want to know how you feel about that.’ You can do that in your old job, but you can’t do that in your new job. In your new job, when you say to them like you did in a meeting, ‘Hey, I’m thinking why don’t we have district offices? I think you guys ought to be in your car more than in your office. You have to be in the district.’ So why don’t we make district offices? It was breathtaking. Everybody there froze and said, ‘You have a job now where you have power. You could actually do that if you wanted to.’ You have to be a bit more careful about the stuff you throw out. If you want to shock them, if you want to steamroll them, you have the power to do it. I believe you’ll end up paying a heavy price for that.” It was a great thing to say. You’re the bishop. You could move them to Timbuktu if you’re unhappy with them. They know it.
 Hugh: Leaders do that not only in the church, but also in other charities, and are totally unaware of their consequences of those actions.
 Will: That’s a good word, consequences.
 Hugh: There are consequences, and they are unaware of them. I want to close this interview out with two more questions. Recently, there was an article in the Washington Post that said at its current trajectory, mainline denominations have 23 Easters left. That is a pretty sobering thought whether it’s true or not. What do leaders in mainline churches need to do to turn that trend around?
 Will: Ooh. I have a long list. A bunch of stuff. Today, I would say: One is we have to look at the painful, ugly stuff, like that statistic. We have to stop lying. We have to find a way to tell difficult truths to people whom we love. Again, I’m a preacher. That is what I think I do every week is stand up and tell difficult truths from Jesus to people that I love, many of them. We ought to be good at this.
 I think in a sense we ought to be made to stare at that and think, I can’t be this kind of leader that I thought I was trying to be. Pastors would often say to me, “This is not the same church I signed on with. I tell you what, when I joined, I didn’t sign on for this.” What a dumb statement. We serve a living God for one thing, and not of the dead. But also, every leader has got to constantly retool, constantly go back to school, constantly start over, constantly ditch these principles that worked great at my last job. They are inappropriate at this one. Get used to it.
 I start my ordained leadership class by saying to them, “I am going to try to share with you what I think I‘ve learned. A lot of it I learned the hard way. Maybe it will help you avoid some of my mistakes. You will get tired of the pontificating and the stories about Alabama, but you need to use that. You take that in. About 50% of that is going to be wrong. You can’t serve the same church I served. You can’t do what I did. There are people here in their 20s who don’t know a lot about ministry, but you know more than I do about the future. That is your job in this class. You take in what I’ve got, and you sort through it. But you also keep your eyes on the future of things. The Lord is taking me out of this game. But He is sending you in. Step up and take responsibility.”
 That is the move I think we got to make. We will not have a future in mainline Protestantism unless we can do that. I must say I’m more impressed by local pastors in little out of the way places that are finding a way to lead into the future. I’m more impressed than I am about seminaries and all.
 Hugh: Hey there, it’s Hugh Ballou. Wasn’t that a great interview with Dr. William Willimon? We lost the last few seconds when I said thank you and goodbye because of a technical glitch, but you had all this great content.
  
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Upgrading Leadership In Churches </strong></p> <p><strong>Interview With Rev. Dr. Bishop William Willimon</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. Welcome to this version of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange</em>. We talk to leaders worldwide about their particular perspective in leadership, their expertise, and to hear from their perspective, from their seat that they led from for so many years. My guest today is Will Willimon, Dr. Reverend Will Willimon. We are sitting in Durham, North Carolina at the Duke Divinity School where Will will tell you a little bit about what he does here. He and I got connected a number of years ago when he came to north Alabama as a bishop, and I was serving in a Methodist church. We first got connected there. I have been extremely impressed with his writing, and we have interfaced a few times. You have even spoken at one of my events in Greensboro. Welcome, Will, to the Nonprofit Exchange.</p> <p><strong>Will Willimon:</strong> Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s like when I go somewhere and say, “I’m Hugh Ballou. This is Will Willimon.” Tell us about yourself, your background, and why you’re here at the Duke Divinity School.</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> I’m a Methodist preacher from South Carolina. As a young preacher, I was summoned by Duke Divinity School. I came up here and joined the faculty back in the ‘70s to teach worship. Didn’t like teaching full-time, so I went back in a parish in South Carolina. Then again Duke called me to the pulpit of Duke Chapel, and I was there 20 years. It was my first experience with a ministry that large, a budget that large, a staff that large. From there, I was a bishop. After being a bishop for eight years, I was invited back to Duke. I teach courses in preaching and mission. I also teach a class for ordained leadership, and for the doctor of ministry, I teach a leadership class. In my latter years, I find myself moving more into leadership. In fact, in my mind, I think every class I teach here at Duke Divinity School is a leadership class because I think leadership is utterly necessary for ordained clergy to be leaders, but often that is something they say they don’t get in divinity school. It’s right at the top of the clergy list of skills they wish they had more of.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s amazing. As people go into this meaningful work in ministry, first off, it’s very difficult work. It’s very challenging work. Let’s go back a minute. We talked about leadership. I want you to define leadership. I also want to ask you about what do you think from interviewing pastors that have been in churches for a while, what do they think they wish they had known before they started? Define leadership. Then what are you hearing from preachers out there they wish they had gotten from this class you’re teaching?</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> I hear pastors complain about administration. That consumes too much of their time, they don’t enjoy doing it, they had no training in how to administer well. Larger church pastors, whenever you’re together, the talk always gets to staff: staff problems, problematic people on staff, hiring people, holding people accountable, all those things you got to do in supervision. I think few pastors come into the ministry saying, “God is calling me to administer a church.” And yet that is the work you find yourself in.</p> <p>Another problem is I know when I went into ministry, my vision of myself was I will be a part of a small rural congregation in South Carolina. I hope I’ll have a part-time secretary. That would be wonderful. Then you wake up one day like I did at Duke Chapel, and I had 30 human beings that I was supposed to be supervising and orchestrating and coordinating and leading. That was when I reached out and tried to get better leadership administrative skills. Probably should have reached out sooner. I hear about administration.</p> <p>Then I hear pastors complaining about conflicted congregations, congregations that don’t seem to respect their authority and leadership. This whole complex set of things that leaders, managers, administrators have to do. I hear a lot of that.</p> <p>You mentioned that being a pastoral leader is hard. I agree. However, there are times I think when pastors get together and complain, whine about administrative leadership difficulties thinking this is what everybody faces who works with human beings that have some tasks assigned to them, some mission they are engaged in. Maybe the surprising thing is that pastors are surprised this is the world.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is the work. It’s with people. Years ago, I interviewed you for an article I was doing for a magazine on the topic of conflict. We were talking about particularly how pastors do or don’t approach conflict. One of the statements you made was typically, pastors want to move away from conflict. One of the people I interviewed on the podcast was a woman named Dr. Roberta Gilbert. She was a psychiatrist and a colleague of Murray Bowen. I don’t know if you-</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> I know Bowen theory, yeah.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I have been studying it for nine years. She was on this series of podcasts. What she helped me realize was that we move toward conflict, remaining calm, sticking to the facts. Instead of avoiding it, moving toward that. I found that Bowen systems is a way to know self, so it helped me to reframe some of my leadership. But conflict is one of the things that exists in any human system like Bowen talks about. Part of what that theory helped me do was he calls differentiation of self. What are our principles? That is a really foundational piece for leadership is defining self.</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> Agreed. For pastors, self-knowledge is a never-ending task. It may be complicated by the fact that for pastors, we have lots of opportunities to be self-deceitful if we want to be. One, I think people aid us in our self-deceit as they say to us, “You’re just so loving and caring. We have never had a pastor like you.” Pushing all those buttons. Then you start to believe that. It is a halo effect.</p> <p>I was in a church recently that has severe problems with decline and severe problems with their staff being unable to step up. The first thing the pastor said was, “We have a wonderful staff here. I feel so privileged to be working with them.” I’m thinking that from one angle, that sounds charitable, and you seem to be a charitable person. You’re thinking positively about these people. From another angle though, let’s be honest, you don’t want to do the work that would be required by being truthful, that you’ve hired the wrong people, you are going to have some painful conversations, you need to make some moves. Rather than do that work, you are going to say, “We have a wonderful staff, and we are all Christians.” I love that self-knowledge.</p> <p>For instance, in a leadership class I teach here, two thirds of the class always admits they have problems with conflict. Much of the class says one of the appeals of Christian ministry is that they could do this without hurting people. In business, you have to fire people. I know it sounds ridiculous as you know the church. I try to say it’s very important to own that. I put it on my list, too, with clergy.</p> <p>I think we clergy think of ourselves as powerless people. We look at our paycheck and say we don’t have much influence or power or they’d be paying me more. It’s easy for us to say there is a problem of the staff, that it’s for the personnel committee. They deal with this; since I’m the pastor, I don’t deal with that. I think that can be very dangerous.</p> <p>One of my jobs as a bishop was to discipline errant clergy who had moral lapses, and invariably, the image was, “I am just a loving, caring pastor. I couldn’t hurt anybody.” That is dangerous. It’s important for pastors to own who they are, the power they have. Use that power carefully. Self-knowledge is a big deal. I don’t know if the president of General Motors has to know thyself, as Socrates advised, but pastors do. There are so many opportunities for deceit, for those moments where you say: I am telling you this for your own good and because I love you. Probably more typical is for pastors to say in response to when I ask “Why didn’t you tell the truth? Why didn’t you share the facts?” “Oh, I am such a loving, caring person. I didn’t want to hurt this person.” We pastors have many resources for deceiving ourselves about our real motives.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Along that channel, I find that the really best leaders have a confidential advisor or coach, a mentor, somebody that helps them discover their blind spots because they are called blind spots for a good reason. That would be one of them. It’s an accountability partner.</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> Good advice. I remember we had a consultant in Alabama, and he educated us during a day about what it takes to revitalize a moribund, static, plateaued congregation. You gotta do this and this and this. Have these discussions, these strategies. At the end of the day, at the bottom of the list he put- His voice raised and he said, “None of this can be done by yourself. You’ve got to get external assistance. You have to get a coach, an advisor, a mentor. You have to get somebody who is not embedded with you, somebody who has no power in that configuration.” I sure found that to be true.</p> <p>As Alabama’s bishop, the church gave me a job but I had no training, and as you can see, very few gifts. I had 800 pastors, 600 churches. It was a leadership management nightmare. After a couple months, I got a retired business executive. I asked, “Bill, what’d you make your last year at the life insurance company?” He said, “About $400,000.” I said, “Well, I’m prepared to offer you $20,000 to work with me and to be my coach, to be my advisor. God wants you to do this. God has told me to tell you to do this. You wouldn’t want to disappoint the Lord, would you?” He said, “Wow, you really do need an advisor if that’s your attitude about things.” It was wonderful. He had an office near mine. Bill went with me to meetings. He sat at the back of the room usually, took notes. We would have an evaluation after the meeting. He would say things to me like, “Once again, you talked about a third of the time, and two thirds of the time, they were talking.” Or he would say things to me like, “You know, you’re asking less questions than you did when we first started. I think you have to discipline yourself to ask more questions and make fewer declarative statements. Your questions are not as good as they were in the early days. I’m afraid you’re falling into the trap of thinking you know what’s going on now. No, you don’t.” Because that is a moving target, people are being deceptive, and they don’t even know they are being deceptive. It was wonderful.</p> <p>The trouble with being a bishop is it is really hard to find anybody who will tell you the truth, except generally your most severe critics whom you can’t stand because they are so critical. Bill was wonderful. Now, when any pastor says to me things like, “Oh, this church. I tried this, and it didn’t work.” “Let me stop you right there. I know where you’re going with this. I am going to recommend you get a coach. You get some help. Let me just stop you right there and talk about the help.” I’m just not sure pastors can do much of anything without somebody coming in from the outside and making the work as difficult as Jesus means it to be. I use that phrase a lot. If the work assigned to us was simply to be a loving, caring group of people, a lot of churches are a loving, caring group of people because that’s all the pastor knows how to lead, the pastor is uncomfortable around anybody in their twenties, so therefore the pastor ends up spending a lot of time with people my age. Unfortunately, Jesus Christ, the work he has given us to do, the mission is much more demanding than that. There is going to be disagreements. There will be crises, not simply because people are hard to work with, which they are, but because Jesus Christ is hard to work with. He won’t let us be the men’s garden club. I keep trying and thinking about leadership.</p> <p>What difference does it make that we are Christian doing this? How is our leadership of a different quality than, say, leadership by a well-meaning humanist or something? That is a hard question to answer, but nevertheless, I think it important for clergy.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It is. We take sound leadership business principles, and we learn from them. When we put them in the church, they are different because it is the church. There are things we can learn. In my conversations with Jim Forbes, a pastor from Riverside, New York, he said, “We need for our spiritual journey experience 15-20% outside of our discipline.” Talk about the coach so we don’t get stale and blind. Nothing else is there. This is what I know. Part of what Bishop Joe said to us at Blacksburg is the Methodist Church was losing 1,200 members a week in America. We get on a track where we think this is how it ought to go, but it’s not working. We have sat ourselves up for failure. Some of the gaps in leadership.</p> <p>When I talked to Cal Turner, and he has talked to the council of bishops, he went to his leadership team at Dollar General and said, “I am the son of the boss. I got this because I am son of the boss.” He was president and chairman of the board. “You have the skills. I have the vision.” He claimed the vision, but he said that he wanted them to do this. Everybody stepped up. Cal said, “Hugh, leadership is about defining your gaps and finding really good people to fill them.” He also pointed out that transparency is- You’re not whiny, but he was very straightforward. They know. They know you don’t know it. Why pretend? If I didn’t tell them, they would be like, “Well, I’ll show him.” There is this vision thing.</p> <p>I worked with Dick Wills when he was bishop in Tennessee. We were talking about a cabin retreat. I was talking about the vision for that since I was leading it. He said, “The cabinet is not going to develop the vision. I didn’t see anywhere in the Bible where God gave the vision to a committee. Here is the vision.” That is the vision piece. I don’t think the great commandment is your mission. That is a commandment. That is a commission. That is not a choice. Paul Borden said that when you brought him in to talk to north Alabama. That is not a choice.</p> <p>What is it that God has called this church or organization? We are talking about leadership in the church. There are some unique differences, but there are some global differences for anybody leading any organization. A lot of what you are talking about corporate leaders have trouble with, too. Talk about the pastor.</p> <p>Back to Bowen systems. There is this pseudo self and basic self. We want to please people, so we go into pleaser mode, which is a downward spiral, rather than going with our principles and making the right decisions for the right reason. Not pulling people in and saying, “This is not how we do things.” It’s a pleaser personality. You did say to me in that interview a while back that in addition to avoiding conflict, it gets worse as it goes on. You also said that conflict is the sign of energy in an organization. We don’t ever eliminate it. We are energetic people.</p> <p>Managing this and addressing it, I think we misunderstand words. One word is we need to confront the conflict. The root of it is with your front. It doesn’t mean you hit them with a baseball bat. With your front means approach it directly, calmly, and openly, stating the facts. There is a huge challenge I see in this area you’re talking about. How can pastors equip themselves, besides having a good coach? I suggest it doesn’t always have to be clergy.</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> You can have coaches. When pastors talk about difficulty of personalities, because you have graduated from divinity school, you have had zero training in how to handle people, how to hold people accountable, how to have difficult conversations with people about their work. But I guarantee you you have people in your church that God has called to the ministry or personnel work. Draw on them. Commission them to do this with you. There is an arrogance behind the pastor who says, “I have hands laying on my head. I’m good at preaching and administration and budgetary oversight.” With one meeting with the finance committee, I was thinking I have always disliked people like you in high school who were always talking about some really interesting math problem in homework. I’m no good in math. That is one reason I went into the ministry to avoid that. Any wonderful guy who has called you. This is what you’re good at. Let me give you that authority to do that.</p> <p>As you were talking, you talked about good business principles and how they are different in the church. That is so true. However, I don’t want to let us clergy off the hook by saying a frequent way- It’s either arrogance or evasiveness. “Wait, remember now, the church is not a business.” That is just a cop-out for saying, “I am so arrogant I am not going to submit to instruction. I am not going to learn.” You were talking about conflict. You can get better at managing conflict. There are certain things you can learn. You do this, then you do this, then you do this. You develop an attitude, which doesn’t say, “There is conflict. I did something wrong,” but rather, “There is some heat being generated here. I can feel it. Maybe I am doing something right.” There have been moments in my ministry where I swear it’s like Jesus says to me, “Gosh, ain’t it a shame that I didn’t have your personality. Maybe I wouldn’t have ended up like I did on the cross.”</p> <p>Sometimes, good management leadership principles can be overruled by the theological missional commitments of the church. I remember when I was weighing into the immigration fight in Alabama, taking on Jeff Sessions. My management coach said, “Ah, really, at this time, I hate to see you get into this.” I said, “Well, the better clergy are asking me to get into this with him.” He said, “This is one of those moment when I realize that this is more than about good management coaching. This is about the gospel and Jesus Christ. I guarantee you you’re going to do this because I know you. This is where I realize I’m not ordained. I’m not clergy. At your best, you think like clergy. I just want to say now as you go into this, know that you will come into some casualties and take some hits and expend some of your capital, but it sounds like you think this is right.”</p> <p>Part of being clergy is applying theological and knowing- In the class I was just teaching, I had Douglas Campbell, who is our great New Testament scholar here, talking about conflict. He was talking about how Paul served a multi-cultural diverse church. He said, “Boy, it’s all blowing up in his face. You have people with Pagan values and Pagan ethics, and you have Jewish Christians, and Gentile Christians. They are fighting it out with each other over who is a real Christian.” A number of the pastors in the program said, “I’ve been there. I am there.” Then Douglas said, “You know, maybe Paul would say, ‘If you’re in a placid, content, homogeneous church, you ain’t much of a missionary, are you? You’re not much of an Evangelist.’ The testimony to how effective Paul was is the squabbles going on, the conflict they’re having.” I thought that was a great way to put it. If my church doesn’t have any conflict over racial issues or political issues, you better check out your Evangelistic leadership because Jesus Christ is about wider business than simply a happy club of older adults.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s what separates us from being a social club.</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> Absolutely. We usually say, “We have love, harmony,” yeah. But if that love and harmony is by our disobeying Christ’s commission, it’s wrong. You mentioned Paul Borden. I loved him in a church leadership on testosterone way. I remember one of my pastors saying to Paul, “You can’t be captured by the older adults in your congregation. You have to free yourself from that. You have to ask yourself, every time you go to the hospital to visit those shut-ins, who are you not visiting? Who are the conversations you’re not having?” One of the pastors said, “Paul, don’t you think there is something to be said for honoring the sacrifices and love of those dear people who built this church?” Paul said, “No, the church does not exist to honor any human being. The church exists to honor Jesus Christ.” Paul whacks him to the thing he says, “Some of you should have gone into nursing. Maybe you can empty bedpans, do nice things for people. This is better than that. You are a preacher of the word of God.” I don’t know how the group perceived that, but I was thinking it is good to be-</p> <p>Sometimes it is good to be reminded that God has called me for more than an efficient, well-run organization. Again, I’m not trying to dismiss leadership management incompetence. For me, preaching was the thing that kept calling me back to say, “I am not simply aspiring to be a manager of an efficient volunteer organization. I am a spokesperson for God. I am the one that says, Okay people, we are gathered again before the scriptures. How are we being challenged?”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Our duty and delight is to do meaningful work and to challenge people. I am thinking Reinhold Niebuhr, “Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.”</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> Quoting Reinhold Niebuhr reminds me of his book, <em>Leaves from the Notebook of a Tamed Cynic.</em> But in there, he says something that has challenged me throughout my ministry. “Before I became a pastor, I thought there were so many boring and tame sermons because preachers were cowards. You have to be careful about how you say things. Now that I have become a pastor, I realized the source of bad preaching is love. You start to love these people, you are with them. You have a front row seat on their misery. The last thing you want to do in a sermon is make them more miserable. That is why there is so many boring and tame sermons.”</p> <p>Not sure if he was right about his characterization of prophets in Israel, but I found that so challenging that many of the really unfaithful things pastors do and lead, they blame it on love. I’m not telling this congregation the truth about their future, the fact that they have no future or very little future because I love them. They are some of the sweetest people. It complexifies leadership and Jesus’ name. it also says to me now. Be honest, here. You have noted that when you tell people painful truths, what do they do? They come back at you, and they start telling you painful truths. Then where would we be? We might be something on the way to being the body of Christ where the church says, “We are not only loving and caring and friendly; we are also truthful to a degree that you can’t get without the holy spirit working in you.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’re also not truthful in how we interpret the Bible. Paul Borden challenged the great commission is not your mission, it’s a choice. Richard Rohr or John Bishop, they talk about how we hijack scripture for our own purposes-</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> We do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> -as leaders. We misinterpret that. That is a built-in liability.</p> <p>You spoke about power earlier. I want to ask about that in a minute. I find a lot of leaders are unaware of the power differentiation. The pastor is an influencer of power, whether they know it or not. We get in trouble with relationships. We get in trouble with money. We get in trouble with authority because we are not aware that we have a position of power with what we do.</p> <p>In my church in Atlanta that I served, the session, which is the ruling body of the Presbyterian church, were Sotheby executives who abdicated their authority to the pastor, which is not in the book of order. He has one vote. The teaching elder gets equal votes. They abdicated because he was the CEO. It was that power position that they gave into. They didn’t know how to be the board. But he got things done. He died at 63 because he really wore out his body. He worked hard and grew that church. It was a great delight to know him. I do find that typically clergy especially are unaware that they do have this position of power. What they say has a lot more weight. How does that get us in trouble?</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> It’s dangerous- It’s also so important to own your power and use it responsibly. We give policemen guns, but then we really expect them to be very careful in using the firearm. When I am ordained in the Methodist church, the bishop says, “Take thou authority to preach the word. Take thou authority to administer the sacraments.” The bishop should have said, “Take care with thou authority we’re giving you.”</p> <p>It amazes me that illustration is fascinating. I have been on boards of colleges where you have these powerful executives on the board. It’s like they walk into a church meeting and turn off their brains and become docile, smiling people. Some of them will say, “It’s the church. It’s not like a business.” I say, “I think it should be more like a business. By the way, I guarantee your business for any of its ethical failings would never do anything this unethical that is going on right now in the treatment of staff or whatever. Come on. Be an executive. Use your power.</p> <p>I watched a little college go just about down the drain because of a board sitting there saying, “He is the president, and he has his Ph. D. I just have my B.A. degree, so what do I know?” They tolerated behavior they would never have tolerated in their bank or whatever. Knowledge of power, clergy moral abuse.</p> <p>I remember a dean of a medical school told me one time, “The purpose of medical education, morally speaking, is to produce people who can be alone with naked people and not take advantage of them.” I said, “Turn around. You see the divinity school. We do that in three years for a lot less money than you charge to do that.” I thought it was a great- Clergy are around naked people a lot, vulnerable people a lot. To take advantage of that vulnerability is a heinous act that requires removal from ministry. We can never- You violated a whole thing. Oftentimes, when I have been involved in disciplining clergy, the self-image the clergy person has is, “Me? No, I’m just- She said she was lonely, and her marriage was unhappy. I’m in the business of loving. So I tried to love.” I said, “That is your explanation for what occurred on your desk?” “Yes.” “That is horrible. Goodbye.” It is a big issue.</p> <p>In the congregation, I do think one thing we clergy have to be savvy about is power, power inequalities, power dynamics. Who are the powerless people in the congregation who are not being heard and who are not speaking up? I remember a pastor turning around a congregation. A group came to him and said, “We don’t like this. We don’t like this.” He said, “Every one of you is over 65. You represent 70% of this congregation.” They said, “We certainly do. Glad you’ve noticed that.” He said, “I bet you represent 90% of the giving.” “We’re glad you noticed that, too.” “If this church is going to live another day, I have to ignore you as much as I can. I’ve just met with the pitifully six people we have in this congregation in their 20s. Here is what I have heard from them. We could lose those few people. I have challenged them to double their numbers this year. Here is what they tell me we need to do. For the good of this church, I am going to have to take my orders from them. I hope you’ll understand that. I hope you’ll see that by my doing that, I am giving this church another day.” That struck me as somebody understanding power and saying, “I have to discipline myself not to let you have the power that determines the mission of this church.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is not a typical decision though.</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> I honored this pastor. Teach me how to do more of that.</p> <p>One other thing you said is one thing as a bishop, my coach said to me, “You’ve been an academic. The way you guys think about stuff is with your mouth open. You say, ‘Hey, this is an interesting idea. I want to know how you feel about that.’ You can do that in your old job, but you can’t do that in your new job. In your new job, when you say to them like you did in a meeting, ‘Hey, I’m thinking why don’t we have district offices? I think you guys ought to be in your car more than in your office. You have to be in the district.’ So why don’t we make district offices? It was breathtaking. Everybody there froze and said, ‘You have a job now where you have power. You could actually do that if you wanted to.’ You have to be a bit more careful about the stuff you throw out. If you want to shock them, if you want to steamroll them, you have the power to do it. I believe you’ll end up paying a heavy price for that.” It was a great thing to say. You’re the bishop. You could move them to Timbuktu if you’re unhappy with them. They know it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Leaders do that not only in the church, but also in other charities, and are totally unaware of their consequences of those actions.</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> That’s a good word, consequences.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There are consequences, and they are unaware of them. I want to close this interview out with two more questions. Recently, there was an article in the <em>Washington Post</em> that said at its current trajectory, mainline denominations have 23 Easters left. That is a pretty sobering thought whether it’s true or not. What do leaders in mainline churches need to do to turn that trend around?</p> <p><strong>Will:</strong> Ooh. I have a long list. A bunch of stuff. Today, I would say: One is we have to look at the painful, ugly stuff, like that statistic. We have to stop lying. We have to find a way to tell difficult truths to people whom we love. Again, I’m a preacher. That is what I think I do every week is stand up and tell difficult truths from Jesus to people that I love, many of them. We ought to be good at this.</p> <p>I think in a sense we ought to be made to stare at that and think, I can’t be this kind of leader that I thought I was trying to be. Pastors would often say to me, “This is not the same church I signed on with. I tell you what, when I joined, I didn’t sign on for this.” What a dumb statement. We serve a living God for one thing, and not of the dead. But also, every leader has got to constantly retool, constantly go back to school, constantly start over, constantly ditch these principles that worked great at my last job. They are inappropriate at this one. Get used to it.</p> <p>I start my ordained leadership class by saying to them, “I am going to try to share with you what I think I‘ve learned. A lot of it I learned the hard way. Maybe it will help you avoid some of my mistakes. You will get tired of the pontificating and the stories about Alabama, but you need to use that. You take that in. About 50% of that is going to be wrong. You can’t serve the same church I served. You can’t do what I did. There are people here in their 20s who don’t know a lot about ministry, but you know more than I do about the future. That is your job in this class. You take in what I’ve got, and you sort through it. But you also keep your eyes on the future of things. The Lord is taking me out of this game. But He is sending you in. Step up and take responsibility.”</p> <p>That is the move I think we got to make. We will not have a future in mainline Protestantism unless we can do that. I must say I’m more impressed by local pastors in little out of the way places that are finding a way to lead into the future. I’m more impressed than I am about seminaries and all.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Hey there, it’s Hugh Ballou. Wasn’t that a great interview with Dr. William Willimon? We lost the last few seconds when I said thank you and goodbye because of a technical glitch, but you had all this great content.</p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Nonprofit – The Step Child Of Business </title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofit-the-step-child-of-business</link>
      <description>Operating by her motto “You Are Your Only Limitation (YAYOL)”, Sherita Herring is a motivating speaker, radio personality and best-selling author.
 She has successfully raised over $30 million and formed more than 600 businesses operating globally, including in more than 17 countries.  She’s a sought-after speaker, motivator, best-selling author, radio personality and business strategist.
 For more than 27 years she has tirelessly worked behind the scenes coaching, facilitating and/or strategizing with some of the top social entrepreneurs, celebrities and organizations in the world:  Former President of Mexico, Vicente Fox; U.N. Ambassador Byron Blake; Parliament representatives of Trinidad; legendary actress Tippi Hedren; Oscar Winner Hilary Swank; NFL Great Jim Brown; NBA Star Jalen Rose; Hall of Famer Bootsy Collins; Producer/Actor Bill Duke; Actor Anthony Anderson; Comedians Michael Colyar, Kim Coles, and Eddie Griffin; Motivational Speakers Les Brown and Lisa.
 Points for the interview:
  What motivated you to work in the nonprofit industry, coming out of corporate America?
 Most people are unaware of the impact of the Nonprofit area, why is that?
 For nonprofits that have not been successful in their pursuits for grants, what strategies can you suggest?
 Can a nonprofit make a profit?
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2018 20:38:56 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7f34497a-b329-11eb-9f0f-cb576482574a/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview With Nonprofit Expert, Sherita Herring</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Operating by her motto “You Are Your Only Limitation (YAYOL)”, Sherita Herring is a motivating speaker, radio personality and best-selling author.
 She has successfully raised over $30 million and formed more than 600 businesses operating globally, including in more than 17 countries.  She’s a sought-after speaker, motivator, best-selling author, radio personality and business strategist.
 For more than 27 years she has tirelessly worked behind the scenes coaching, facilitating and/or strategizing with some of the top social entrepreneurs, celebrities and organizations in the world:  Former President of Mexico, Vicente Fox; U.N. Ambassador Byron Blake; Parliament representatives of Trinidad; legendary actress Tippi Hedren; Oscar Winner Hilary Swank; NFL Great Jim Brown; NBA Star Jalen Rose; Hall of Famer Bootsy Collins; Producer/Actor Bill Duke; Actor Anthony Anderson; Comedians Michael Colyar, Kim Coles, and Eddie Griffin; Motivational Speakers Les Brown and Lisa.
 Points for the interview:
  What motivated you to work in the nonprofit industry, coming out of corporate America?
 Most people are unaware of the impact of the Nonprofit area, why is that?
 For nonprofits that have not been successful in their pursuits for grants, what strategies can you suggest?
 Can a nonprofit make a profit?
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Operating by her motto “You Are Your Only Limitation (YAYOL)”, <strong>Sherita Herring</strong> is a motivating speaker, radio personality and best-selling author.</p> <p>She has successfully raised over $30 million and formed more than 600 businesses operating globally, including in more than 17 countries.  She’s a sought-after speaker, motivator, best-selling author, radio personality and business strategist.</p> <p>For more than 27 years she has tirelessly worked behind the scenes coaching, facilitating and/or strategizing with some of the top social entrepreneurs, celebrities and organizations in the world:  Former President of Mexico, Vicente Fox; U.N. Ambassador Byron Blake; Parliament representatives of Trinidad; legendary actress Tippi Hedren; Oscar Winner Hilary Swank; NFL Great Jim Brown; NBA Star Jalen Rose; Hall of Famer Bootsy Collins; Producer/Actor Bill Duke; Actor Anthony Anderson; Comedians Michael Colyar, Kim Coles, and Eddie Griffin; Motivational Speakers Les Brown and Lisa.</p> <p>Points for the interview:</p> <ul> <li>What motivated you to work in the nonprofit industry, coming out of corporate America?</li> <li>Most people are unaware of the impact of the Nonprofit area, why is that?</li> <li>For nonprofits that have not been successful in their pursuits for grants, what strategies can you suggest?</li> <li>Can a nonprofit make a profit?</li> </ul><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3295</itunes:duration>
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      <title>JOBENOMICS UPDATE ON THE CREATION OF 20 MILLION JOBS</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/jobenomics-update-on-the-creation-of-20-million-jobs</link>
      <description>JOBENOMICS UPDATE ON THE CREATION OF 20 MILLION JOBS
 AND THE ROLE OF NONPROFITS IN THAT INITIATIVE
 WITH FOUNDER CHUCK VOLLMER
 Chuck Vollmer is the author and founder of Jobenomics, which deals with the economics of business and job creation.  The Jobenomics National Grassroots Movement’s goal is to facilitate creation of 20 million net new U.S. jobs within a decade.  The Movement has a following of over 20 million people.  Jobenomics has six books and produces quarterly employment and unemployment reports on economic, business and workforce development.  Jobenomics national-level initiatives include the Energy Technology Revolution, Network Technology Revolution, Urban Mining and Urban Agriculture.   Jobenomics.com had 6 million hits in the last 12-months, a growth rate of 400% over the last year.  Today, over a dozen cities and states have started Jobenomics initiatives led by local community leaders.  These initiatives focus on people at the base of America’s socioeconomic pyramid with emphasis on women, minorities, youth, veterans and citizens who want to work or start a business.
 Jobenomics (Jobs + economics) deals with the process of creating and mass-producing small businesses and jobs.  Jobenomics National Grassroots Movement’s goal is to facilitate creation of 20 million net new U.S. jobs within a decade.  The Movement has a following of 20 million people.  Jobenomics regularly updates its six books and numerous reports to keep its members current on the latest national and international economic, business and workforce development issues, trends and solutions.  Jobenomics websitehad 6 million hits last year, a growth rate of 400% per year, which is indicative of the high level of interest in a new approach to economic, business and workforce development.
 Jobenomics also provides advice and timely data to policy and decision-makers worldwide.  Over the last few years, Jobenomics met with over a thousand government, business and community leaders to incorporate the best of their ideas and requirements into Jobenomics initiatives and programs.  Today, a dozen communities have started Jobenomics initiatives led by local community leaders.  Another dozen are in the pipeline.  These initiatives focus on citizens at the base of America’s socioeconomic pyramid with emphasis on women, minorities, youth, veterans and other hopefuls who want to work or start a business.  While Jobenomics is designed as an American business and job creation movement, there is significant interest from Asian, Middle East and African nations to start similar movements.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2018 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7f46de5a-b329-11eb-9f0f-9f86ddabf01d/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>WITH FOUNDER CHUCK VOLLMER</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>JOBENOMICS UPDATE ON THE CREATION OF 20 MILLION JOBS
 AND THE ROLE OF NONPROFITS IN THAT INITIATIVE
 WITH FOUNDER CHUCK VOLLMER
 Chuck Vollmer is the author and founder of Jobenomics, which deals with the economics of business and job creation.  The Jobenomics National Grassroots Movement’s goal is to facilitate creation of 20 million net new U.S. jobs within a decade.  The Movement has a following of over 20 million people.  Jobenomics has six books and produces quarterly employment and unemployment reports on economic, business and workforce development.  Jobenomics national-level initiatives include the Energy Technology Revolution, Network Technology Revolution, Urban Mining and Urban Agriculture.   Jobenomics.com had 6 million hits in the last 12-months, a growth rate of 400% over the last year.  Today, over a dozen cities and states have started Jobenomics initiatives led by local community leaders.  These initiatives focus on people at the base of America’s socioeconomic pyramid with emphasis on women, minorities, youth, veterans and citizens who want to work or start a business.
 Jobenomics (Jobs + economics) deals with the process of creating and mass-producing small businesses and jobs.  Jobenomics National Grassroots Movement’s goal is to facilitate creation of 20 million net new U.S. jobs within a decade.  The Movement has a following of 20 million people.  Jobenomics regularly updates its six books and numerous reports to keep its members current on the latest national and international economic, business and workforce development issues, trends and solutions.  Jobenomics websitehad 6 million hits last year, a growth rate of 400% per year, which is indicative of the high level of interest in a new approach to economic, business and workforce development.
 Jobenomics also provides advice and timely data to policy and decision-makers worldwide.  Over the last few years, Jobenomics met with over a thousand government, business and community leaders to incorporate the best of their ideas and requirements into Jobenomics initiatives and programs.  Today, a dozen communities have started Jobenomics initiatives led by local community leaders.  Another dozen are in the pipeline.  These initiatives focus on citizens at the base of America’s socioeconomic pyramid with emphasis on women, minorities, youth, veterans and other hopefuls who want to work or start a business.  While Jobenomics is designed as an American business and job creation movement, there is significant interest from Asian, Middle East and African nations to start similar movements.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>JOBENOMICS UPDATE ON THE CREATION OF 20 MILLION JOBS</strong></h1> <h1><strong>AND THE ROLE OF NONPROFITS IN THAT INITIATIVE</strong></h1> <h1><strong>WITH FOUNDER CHUCK VOLLMER</strong></h1> <p><strong>Chuck Vollmer</strong> is the author and founder of Jobenomics, which deals with the economics of business and job creation.  The Jobenomics National Grassroots Movement’s goal is to facilitate creation of 20 million net new U.S. jobs within a decade.  The Movement has a following of over 20 million people.  Jobenomics has six books and produces quarterly employment and unemployment reports on economic, business and workforce development.  Jobenomics national-level initiatives include the Energy Technology Revolution, Network Technology Revolution, Urban Mining and Urban Agriculture.   <a href="http://jobenomics.com/">Jobenomics.com</a> had 6 million hits in the last 12-months, a growth rate of 400% over the last year.  Today, over a dozen cities and states have started Jobenomics initiatives led by local community leaders.  These initiatives focus on people at the base of America’s socioeconomic pyramid with emphasis on women, minorities, youth, veterans and citizens who want to work or start a business.</p> <p><strong>J</strong><strong>obenomics</strong> <em>(Jobs + economics)</em> deals with the process of creating and mass-producing small businesses and jobs.  Jobenomics National Grassroots Movement’s goal is to facilitate creation of 20 million net new U.S. jobs within a decade.  The Movement has a following of 20 million people.  Jobenomics regularly updates its six books and numerous reports to keep its members current on the latest national and international economic, business and workforce development issues, trends and solutions.  <a href="https://jobenomicsblog.com/">Jobenomics website</a>had 6 million hits last year, a growth rate of 400% per year, which is indicative of the high level of interest in a new approach to economic, business and workforce development.</p> <p>Jobenomics also provides advice and timely data to policy and decision-makers worldwide.  Over the last few years, Jobenomics met with over a thousand government, business and community leaders to incorporate the best of their ideas and requirements into Jobenomics initiatives and programs.  Today, a dozen communities have started Jobenomics initiatives led by local community leaders.  Another dozen are in the pipeline.  These initiatives focus on citizens at the base of America’s socioeconomic pyramid with emphasis on women, minorities, youth, veterans and other hopefuls who want to work or start a business.  While Jobenomics is designed as an American business and job creation movement, there is significant interest from Asian, Middle East and African nations to start similar movements.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Making The Most of 2018  for Nonprofits</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/making-the-most-of-2018-for-nonprofits</link>
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 Mark S A Smith is the author of 13 popular books and sales guides and has authored more than 400 magazine articles. He is a genuine Guerrilla Marketing guru, co-authoring three books with Jay Conrad Levinson, and is a certified Guerrilla Marketing Coach.   A renaissance man with many talents, Mark is passionate about leadership, team building, teamwork, sales, and marketing. For over twenty years Mark has served as a strategic advisor to corporate leaders and executives all over the world who must develop the best way to bring in the right strategies for successful growth and sustainability.   What makes him different is he brings a holistic view of the business instead of solely focusing on one aspect and ignoring the impact of decisions on the rest of the organization   How to Get the Most Out of 2018 Tapping into the top five trends to grow your nonprofit:  Omnichannel – allow members to consume you anywhere and every way
 How the growing economy creates monetary opportunities
 The impact of higher unemployment on your volunteer force and how to pivot to get all you need
 New leadership demands: what’s changing and how to stay out front
 Turning unrest into peace: how to divorce your organization from the media’s promotion of outrage
  Interview Transcript
  
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis on this version of The Nonprofit Exchange. A dear friend who I see too rarely, we have been talking virtually but now we are together. I said, Why don’t we talk about some things that are on your radar?” Mark S. A. Smith, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Mark S. A. Smith: Such a delight to be here. Thank you, Hugh. Hello, Russell. Hello, friends on Facebook. Welcome. We have a lot of interesting things to talk about because 2018 is going to be an astounding year. You might be listening to this in 2020 or 2024. But you know something? What we are talking about today will probably still be issues even in the next five to ten years. Or opportunities, as the case may be.
 Hugh: We record messages that are timeless. But you’re right. We are turning the page into 2018 as we are recording this. If you are a regular listener, you know you can go to thenonprofitexchange.org and see the video versions of these. But you can go to iTunes and download the audio there.
 Mark, you are in a series of really powerful interviews we have done over three years. We are starting our fourth year of these great interviews. What we endeavor to do more often than not is find people that have business expertise. Let’s install that particular business expertise into the charity. It might be a church, a synagogue, a membership organization, or a community foundation, but it’s some sort of philanthropic work that we’re doing. Before we get into the subject matter, which I’m going to hold off in giving people a title, tell people a little bit about Mark Smith and why you are able to talk about this topic today.
 Mark: I help people sell complex, expensive, high-consideration things as fast as humanly possible. I am an electrical engineer; therefore, I am a systems thinker. I have recovered. I don’t sell or do engineering very much, but I do help people sell complex things. That is where you have multiple people involved in making the decision. Each person has a different view of what creates value and what we need to do. Sounds an awful lot like this nation, doesn’t it?
 Hugh: Yeah.
 Mark: How do you round up consensus? How do you have people go the same way? Just like when you’re working with nonprofits, herding cats is what we have to do. It’s the same thing when you have to sell expensive technology. What I’m doing here is applying all the things I have learned about selling very expensive things to the world of nonprofits. It’s absolutely identical. I, too, do work with a nonprofit. I am on a board here in Las Vegas where I live. I’ve been involved in nonprofits throughout my life. I understand, and I am delighted to share with you my business acumen. What I like to tell people is a nonprofit is not a business plan; it’s a tax status.
 Hugh: That’s not a philosophy, no. You’re very active on social media, especially Twitter. You put out little short memes with a few words on it. I gotta tell you, they are very thought-provoking. They help me focus on what’s important.
 Mark: I am honored that that happens. Thank you.
 Hugh: There has been this coincidence of you tweeting on the things we are actually talking about. Sometimes simultaneously. I find that to be fascinating.
 Mark: The issues are the same. Whether it’s nonprofits or the for-profit world, the issues we face are frankly identical.
 Hugh: I laugh when business leaders say, “That might work in the church.”
 Mark: Or the other side is that the religious leaders say, “That might work in business, but it won’t work in the church.”
 Hugh: If it’s true anywhere, it’s true everywhere.
 Mark: We’re humans working with humans.
 Hugh: I think we’ve stalled long enough in telling people what the topic is. What is the topic? Russell wants to know.
 Mark: All right, Russell. You’re ready? Today’s topic is how to get the most out of this year, which happens to be 2018. We are going to talk about five trends that are going on that you need to know about as the leader of your nonprofit to stay ahead of the game, to grow, and to prosper heading forward. Some of the things we are going to talk about are technology, and some of the things we are going to talk about are psychology.
 Hugh: Say that last sentence again. That caught me off guard.
 Mark: Don’t you know I do that to you? And you do the same to me when you’re speaking. Some of the things we are going to talk about are technology, understanding the technology that nonprofits have to be embracing and keeping track of and staying up with. Some of it happens to be psychology, what is happening in the general zeitgeist of the world and how they impact nonprofits. Whether you think they do or not, they do. Your constituents, your members, your flock all are impacted by what they see in the news and what they experience with retail and what happens in the business world. They carry those attitudes and insights into your organization, whether you want them to or not. We have to manage that. We have to deal with it. We have to capitalize whenever possible or perhaps even neutralize it in some cases. That is what I mean by psychology.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I think we’re guilty in any discipline. I know in the church, I have had people say to somebody, “You’re so heavily minded you’re no earthly good.” We all live in the reality of today. I can say that I served the church for 40 years and probably got to that space myself. I put in very carefully numbered bullet points. I noticed that I numbered them wrong. Our first one is, Omnichannel. Speak about that. Tell us what that means.
 Mark: Listener, have you ever had the situation where you were multi-tasking, perhaps watching television and checking your telephone for messages or tweets, or maybe even reading the news story you are watching on TV simultaneously to see what if you were seeing on TV made sense to other news channels? That’s omnichannels, my friend.
 The reality is we are multi-screening. You are getting information from multiple locations at all times in all ways. What this means to nonprofits is you have to be able to bring your message, bring your service to your constituents in every way that they consume information. Just by a show of hands, who here has for your organization—I see ten fingers there, well, eight fingers and two thumbs. Sometimes I am just all thumbs. Do you have an app? Do you have the opportunity of having your constituents consume your services, your podcasts, your sermons via a dedicated app that would alert them when something new becomes available? Are you using the technology to your benefit? Now if you’re doing that, fantastic. Just stay with it.
 You have to understand we live in an omnichannel world. We are consuming many things in many different ways. Mobile apps, partner locations, maybe figuring out other locations for people to access your services. Where do your constituents go that you can have a kiosk or a corner or something like that where people can plug in, enjoy, take advantage of, be reminded of, contribute to, consume whatever it is you are bringing to the marketplace? Since I don’t know what your nonprofit is, we are spraying and hoping you will catch a couple of ideas here.
 The concept here is you need to be everywhere that your people are every time you possibly can be. The reality is if you are a church, people are carrying around a sermon in a box in their mobile device. Chunk things up into five-minute pieces to give them a chance to remind, refresh, and renew. If you are supplying educational elements, keep pushing out opportunities for people to learn and to refresh. If you’re supplying the opportunity for people to volunteer, if they are standing in line or waiting at a traffic light and they can pull out their mobile device and contribute something in some sort of thought-provoking way, let them do so. That is what we mean by omnichannel. Take advantage of that any way you possibly can.
 Hugh: You said something about five-minute segments. Remind, refresh, and renew. Talk more about that.
 Mark: What I am finding is short segments of content that provoke people. Just like when you read something from me on Twitter, you’re telling me that I am inspiring you, I am provoking some thoughts, I am causing you to think about new things, maybe connect some new dots. The bulk of those tweets are 140 characters. There are some that run a little bit longer thanks to Twitter’s new length limits, but it’s a very short little boom. It’s a little thought bomb that goes off in your brain.
 As a nonprofit, most of us are in business to inspire, to have people live a better life, to improve their condition, to stay on target, to stay on task, to stay on the straight and narrow. That requires constant reminders. Another thing to keep in mind is if you are a church or an organization where people come to see you once a week or once a month, it’s not enough. They are bombarded by all these other messages and all these other counter-messages that they may not wish to consume. Our job is to remind them there is another way of thinking. There is another opportunity. There is better potential for them that they have already volunteered to be a part of. If we can chunk our messages from a text standpoint, an audio standpoint, or a short video standpoint to refresh, renew, and remind themselves there is a reason why those of us who have a spiritual practice, it’s a daily practice if not hourly.
 Hugh: Yes. Oh yes. That is so important. I think the biggest flaw I see in organizations is when people say, “They should know better because we told them that,” but they told them that in 1903, and you have repeated it since then.
 Mark: Here’s the problem, friends. You may have told them that, but the other side has told them their viewpoint a thousand times since the last time you said it.
 Hugh: Omnichannel. When I first saw that, I thought it was a piece of software.
 Mark: It’s a concept.
 Hugh: Russell is taking good notes. Do you want to weigh in on this omnichannel touchpoint? Mark, what you’re doing is top of mind marketing, isn’t it?
 Mark: Yes. Let’s just keep reminding them what they have asked us to remind them of.
 Hugh: Russell? He’s been very polite.
 Mark: He’s been quiet. He’s been smiling. He is giving me thumbs up. He is also muted.
 Russell Dennis: Not anymore. We can quickly fix that. Greetings and salutations, Mark. Good to see you again. It’s been a while. I was just typing that when you’re out there in multiple places, where your people are, and that’s the important thing to figure out is where your people are and getting out there and getting in front of them. We are in a short attention span society. If you’re not out there online, you’re left behind. It’s not a fad. It’s not a trend. It’s here to stay.
 Hugh: I think it’s also in person. Where do your people hang out? I am hearing omnichannel as virtual as well as live.
 Mark: Absolutely. Physical, too. It has to do with digital signage for example. Digital signage is omnichannel. Most of us have digital signage in our houses of worship. As I pointed out, as we talked about, where are they? Let’s see if we can put a digital sign in the places our people hang out to remind them of the messages they have agreed to consume.
 Hugh: Great. We are sitting at the top of 2018. Our market has been growing. There are over 100 companies that announced employee dividends and financial expansion of programs since the tax bill passed at the end of 2017. There are all kinds of energy and economy. Talk about how that benefits the nonprofit sector.
 Mark: We are sitting at the highest consumer satisfaction index of all time. I think it’s for a number of reasons. One is that a lot of people are feeling good about themselves again. A lot of them have hope for the future. A lot of them feel that in spite of the noise we hear on the mainstream news on a regular basis, locally, the communities are doing well. More people have jobs. More people are feeling good about what’s possible. Certainly my business has been substantially increased. As you pointed out, yours has, too. A big part of it is that my customers are looking forward to growth and therefore investing in opportunities to grow.
 As a nonprofit, you can plug into this feeling of goodness and growth, asking for more than you could ask for in the past. Requesting more. Asking people to donate more for perhaps more time, for perhaps a higher level of investment of themselves into the organization. When people are feeling good, they say yes to opportunities because it doesn’t feel like it’s so heavy. Doesn’t feel like it’s such a burden. When we feel depressed, it’s very hard for people to feel good about themselves.
 Hugh: What makes people say yes? I still have lots of-
 Mark: What a great question! I’m so glad you asked it. What makes people say yes is because your request is in alignment with their personal identity.
 Hugh: Whoa. Whoa. Hey, Russ. What does that trigger with you?
 Russell: It’s everything. Everything revolves around relationships now. People are starting to figure that out. It doesn’t matter what business you’re in. Now you have to build relationships. In the old days, you could just blurt out at people. There were very few places for them to get a message. They were fed by three big networks messages. Think about Henry Ford when he talked about the Model T. They can have any car they want as long as it’s black. Now people have choices. They have different avenues for expression, and they have short attention spans, so you have to resonate with people because they will look for another cause if they feel like they’re not being romanced, so to say. You have to keep that connection some type of way, keep thanking them, showing the impact they are making, and staying with it. People change. There are so many different causes that they can get involved with now. It’s like anything else to maintain that brand loyalty as it were. You have to connect with your tribe. People want a sense of connection and a sense of accomplishment. Younger people coming into the work force want to do work that matters.
 Hugh: Mark, I pinged Russell because many times in the interviews, he helps us remember that whether you are creating board members or talking to donors, we have to think about what it is they want, what they are interested in, what they want to achieve. There is a messaging piece that I was honing in on here. How do we form our message so that we do connect with that like-minded person?
 Mark: Let’s get back to the concept of personal identity. People buy things to support their identity or they buy things or engage in things to help them transform their identity into a new place that they desire to be. It’s a really important concept because all sales, all marketing, all recruiting, all conversion happens when a person sees their identity as that which you are offering as a nonprofit. That transformation for a lot of people is where we’re heading. As people grow, they transform. As young people go from high school to college, they are transforming. As they go from college into the workforce, they are transforming. That personal identity, how you view yourself and how you want to be viewed by—Russell, you said it right on—tribe, we choose our tribe, and the choices that we make determine our tribe. In a model I generated, those tribe decisions are mission-critical. The reason why is because if you make the wrong choices, the people who you might like may just stop calling you back. They may quit inviting you out. They might leave you on your own. That is where that personal identity comes into play. Identity happens way more than people realize. A great example of that is sports. Russell, do you consider yourself a sports fan?
 Russell: I love it.
 Mark: Do you have a team?
 Russell: Believe it or not, I root for the Cleveland Browns.
 Mark: Why the hell would an intelligent man like you root for such a losing team when a logical person would pick a winning team to root for?
 Russell: I grew up there.
 Mark: That’s it. Yes!
 Russell: I haven’t lived there in almost 40 years, but home is home.
 Mark: It’s part of your core identity. It is so deeply ingrained in your core identity that I couldn’t get you to wear a piece of the opposing team’s clothing even if I paid you. That’s the power of identity. When you as a nonprofit can tap into that identity, that is where you really get that brand experience where people refuse to go anywhere else. But you have to keep reinforcing that identity. You have to make sure that the identity you’re offering continues to shift in the proper direction over time. In a growing economy, people have the opportunity of transforming that identity. That is really where we’re going with this #2 point. It gives you a chance to perhaps recruit people, to bring people in that you haven’t been able to before because they couldn’t afford it, they didn’t have the bandwidth or the money. Now they do. Get very clear. A definitive passionate, audience that wants to be recognized or grow their identity can help you as an organization grow. Get really clear. Get really sharp about this. It will have a massive impact for you in 2018. Cool?
 Hugh: Absolutely. You talked about unemployment. The numbers show the unemployment figures at the end of 2017 were the lowest they’ve been in forever. But there are still people who are underemployed. They are not unemployed.
 Mark: In fact, those underemployed people are the ones who are perfect for volunteers. The reason why is as humans, we like to feel we are making a difference. Russell, you pointed that out in your last comments. We really want to feel we are doing good, like we are making a difference. When we are underemployed, we don’t have that feeling that we are living up to our potential. People in that environment can be invited to fulfill that in a nonprofit volunteer situation. Whether it’s an executive who has moved to a lower position, who needs to give back and still provide that strategic input, that is the perfect person to capture for example. Or perhaps the stay at home mom who went back to work because her kids are out of the house, and as she enters back in, she doesn’t go back in at the top level where she started. She comes in at a lower level, and she needs to fill that gap of feeling good about herself until she can be promoted up to that new level. That is the opportunity that you as a nonprofit can fill.
 Hugh: You spoke earlier about working with a local nonprofit in Las Vegas where you live. Why did you say yes to that?
 Mark: For two reasons. One is that I have an expertise that the association can use. I can benefit the association in quite a few different ways because of my deep history in business and as a professional. And that association also allows me, it feeds me in that I get to be with other people whose future is my history. And so I get a chance to give back because if I rewind my life back 30 years, I was the person who is being served by the mentor who I get to be today.
 Hugh: So your input is important to shaping the future of their work.
 Mark: And they have a desire to have a similar experience that I had. When we are looking for a mentor—this is probably one of the best pieces of advice I’ve had in my life—look for somebody whose history is your future. They can help you plot the path. While your paths will be slightly different, the fundamentals won’t be that far off.
 Hugh: Russell, did you capture that last comment?
 Russell: I did not. I was in the process of typing that. I don’t type very quickly. This is interesting because what we are talking about, there are three things that a nonprofit needs: time, talent, and treasure. We get obsessed with the money and forget about time and talent. Especially with people who are underemployed, people have different motivations for joining you. When you are clear about what it is you are trying to do and you have inventoried all of your assets, which include time, talent, skills, knowledge, abilities, those are all assets to the nonprofit. When you can leverage that and get other people, it’s like money in the bank because you go out, build relationships, get sponsors for media, cash sponsors, you go out and get people to contribute pro bono services, you bring students in, you bring professional firms. There is a number of different ways to approach getting pro bono talent. When you are clear on who you are and what you need, you can offer these folks some time. Maybe they need to build their portfolio. Maybe they are tried and just want to give back. Maybe they are entering the workforce. Maybe they are underemployed and want to have some projects and creations of their own. You can set that table. When you are clear on what it is that people want, then they will come support you and always keep evaluating, putting challenges out there for them to stretch and grow and invest in their learning. They have reasons to stick with you in that case.
 Mark: Right on. I think if you get the time and talent right, the treasure follows automatically. The reason why is what is money? It is a reward for doing what others want. It’s canned labor. That’s another way of looking at it.
 Russell: Canned labor, but meaningful labor. It’s not standing at a copy machine all day or making coffee. It’s actually creating things. Building your social media strategy, writing policies, it’s endless the number of things you can find volunteers to do that they can help support the organization with. Yes, even fundraising. The sky’s the limit. It’s up to your own creativity and finding out what moves people. If you don’t have any money, you probably have time and talent.
 Mark: They probably know people. There is also ways of converting some of that talent and some of that time into treasure. If you think about it, that’s what a business does. It converts time and talent into treasure. As a nonprofit, you can do exactly the same thing. Your tax status permits that to happen.
 Hugh: Money is also reward for providing value.
 Russell: Another way to keep score.
 Mark: That’s universally agreed upon.
 Hugh: Back to where we were talking at the beginning of this interview about installing sound business principles into the charity. I am using charity purposefully here. Sometimes we use the word “nonprofit,” which spins us into this scarcity thinking that we can’t generate a profit. But the profit is what pays for the philanthropic work of the organization. Like you said, it’s not a business plan. It’s not a philosophy. It’s a tax classification. It’s really tax exempt work. We are getting a lot of useful content today about leveraging what is around us instead of getting stuck in our hole, our silo. You ready to move to the next one?
 Mark: Let’s do it. I think we have beaten that topic up a little bit. I like it.
 Hugh: #3 is New Leadership Demands. What is changing, and how do we stay out front? I remember years ago people were hiring the motivational speaker. Give me rah, rah. Then people left the room, and it was over. People aren’t hiring motivational speakers. They are hiring people with solid, executable content. What has changed in the leadership segment? What are you thinking about?
 Mark: What I see is the informational speaker and the inspirational speaker versus motivational speaker. Let’s talk about that, and then we will go on to the topic of what’s changing with leadership. The difference between a motivational speaker and an inspirational speaker is very simple. If we go back to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, which I see as a fundamental to everything we do, both within the charitable sector as well as the business sector, those two lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy is physical needs and then security. Within those two levels, you can motivate people. It’s basically a pain-based motivation. Once we get to that next level, where you have love and self-esteem and move up to self-actualization, that is where inspiration comes into play. If people are in pain, you have to motivate them. If people are out of pain, then you can inspire them. Don’t try to be inspirational when people are hungry and tired and scared. That doesn’t work. It’s just frustrating. They will nod their heads and do what they need to do to get the hell out of your view so they can go get some food or drink or get warm or whatever. We have to help people to the third level of Maslow because we can start to inspire them.
 With that in mind, from a leadership standpoint, understanding your leadership is 100% contextual on the state of the person and ultimately the team you are working with. That is not a blinding flash of the obvious to most of you, but we have to be reminded of that because a lot of the traditional leadership mantras that we hear are being offered from the top of Maslow’s hierarchy. But a lot of the people we are leading are way down the hierarchy, and we have to remember that sometimes it’s just giving them a shoulder to cry on and taking them out to lunch or buying them a cup of coffee. Sometimes that’s all the leadership they need in that moment.
 Hugh: Wow. That’s a paradigm shift. What are you thinking there, Russ? You’re smiling.
 Russell: The thought came to mind that great leaders always have a pulse on where their people are because no two people are in the same place. Cookie cutter leadership doesn’t work. It may have worked back at the turn of the 20th century.
 Mark: It didn’t work then either, Russell. I hate to tell you, pal. It was just misreported.
 Russell: They pushed it as, “Get in line or go work somewhere else.” That doesn’t work. Good leaders build other leaders around them because that is what makes a great leader look good. We have people who can execute or delegate, and she is doing high level functions. Sometimes you have high performance individuals, and it is really hard- When they have been driving the train for a long time, it’s really difficult for them to take a step back because they have their vision and it’s their baby. They have a hard time taking a step back. This is a way that leaders have to grow in. If people in the work force today aren’t getting work that means something. They move on. Do yourself a favor and let other people help you.
 Mark: I think some of the things we have to take a look at from a change standpoint is that our millennial culture, I raised five millennial children. None of them live at home. I consider myself to be a success. They don’t put up with ultimatums. They’ll just raise their middle finger and wave you goodbye. The reality is that leadership is now voluntary. It was always voluntary, but it is now absolutely voluntary. People accept leadership voluntarily, and a charitable organization has always been voluntary. We have to become a whole lot more about what it is you are looking for. How can I help you grow? Where do you want to go? What do you need to help you get there? Can we help you get there? It’s a lot more of the let’s figure out where our tribe needs to go and bring that to them. I think that’s a big component of that. We raised our children to question authority. The boomer generation just shakes their head at, “I am a boomer.” Friends, I raise that generation. I raised them to be what I wanted to be when I was their age, which was to have the freedom to ask questions and to push back and to say, “That’s really stupid. Why do you make that?” When I was a kid, that earned a slap across the face, so I learned to shut up very quickly. I let my kids ask those questions. They were hard questions. They made me a better man.
 That also means that military-style, authoritarian leadership will no longer work. It has to be collaborative leadership. But how do we do collaborative leadership? It’s simple. You just ask people. You ultimately, as the leader of your organization, get to make the decision. But you also have to have that collaboration of how we arrive at the destination. You are responsible for the destination. Then we collaborate on how we get there. That is what I see as being a major shift.
 Hugh: That is especially true in nonprofits because we do attract some capable people. We think we have to do it as a leader because we don’t want to bother them because they are volunteers and are busy in their real life.
 Mark: But wait a minute. That’s why they showed up.
 Hugh: You got it. I set that one up good. You are really interfering with what somebody has come to do. That seems like a logical step. That is a huge problem. Bowen leadership systems, Murray Bowen as a psychiatrist created this whole leadership methodology. He talks about that as overfunctioning, and the reciprocity to overfunctioning is underfunctioning. Especially when you have a boomer, me, and you are talking to millennials, like the editor of our magazine, Todd, he says, “Tell me where you want to be, and let me get there.” Nobody likes being told the steps or micromanaged. Millennials like it the least of any particular segment. You raised five millennials, and I don’t see any wounds on your body.
 Mark: I’m a much better man. Before I raised my five millennial kids, I was a jerk.
 Hugh: Really?
 Mark: Yeah. I knew everything. I knew exactly how to do it, and I could prove it. If you didn’t believe me, I’d write a book about it.
 Hugh: Wow.
 Russell: I just sense that pleasure. Here’s the thing, Mark. They’ll be back. They will bring more with them.
 Mark: It gets better and better and more disruptive and more delicious.
 Hugh: There is a story of this conductor, who are known to have healthy egos. This conductor walks into a restaurant with a whole bunch of musicians. One person stood up on one side and said, “All conductors are jerks.” Whoa, it got back like this. On the other side, somebody stood up and said, “I resent that comment.” The conductor looked at him and said, “Hey, are you a conductor, too?” He says, “No, I’m a jerk.” I love it. That is a reframed lawyer joke.
 Mark: The way I like to talk about conductors is conductors are highly skilled. They can play every instrument in the orchestra. They can. But not well enough to make a living. At the end of the show-
 Russell: [hard to hear] tickets on the train, either.
 Hugh: The model you are talking about is the conductor doesn’t tell them step by step what they do. The conductor says to the oboe player, the violinist, whatever, “This is the effect I want. This is the result I want.” They guide the process.
 I wanted to segue into that as a model for what you’re talking about. That has been a consistent model over the decades. If we look at that in today’s world, leadership as a profound influence and not the micro that you are talking about, do this, do this, do this. It’s a nuance of engaging people and empowering people to raise the bar. That is the essence of transformational leadership really: building a culture of high performers that respond to you.
 So we are looking at what has changed, but also we are looking at- Earlier, you talked about transformation. There is a transformation in ourselves before we can be effective. How does that link with what you’re talking about?
 Mark: Everybody that I know is going through some form of transformation. They are trying to add a new skill. They are trying to let go of an old habit they see as not serving their life any further. They may be going through a spiritual revolution where they are going from less spiritual to more spiritual. It may be that they are looking for a physical transformation, losing weight, adding muscle, adding health. Those transformations always trigger help because if we could do it on our own, we already would have. We need either skills or encouragement or motivation or a tribe to travel with.
 Let’s talk about transformation for just a minute. Let’s have some fun with this. I know that we bumped into this idea with me before, Hugh, and let’s talk about it. I think we have enough time. It’s fairly simple. There is fundamentally a seven-step process in transformation, plus a step zero and a step minus one.
 Hugh: Ooh, do tell.
 Mark: The first half is about belief. The second half is about knowledge. The difference between belief and knowledge is a manifestation in the physical world. Step minus one is where they want to go. The transformation they want to enjoy is invisible. They can’t even see it. It’s not even within their awareness. It’s not even possible. They hadn’t even thought of it. If you as a charitable organization want to find new people, part of your job is to message the outcome that you deliver so that we can take people who don’t even see that as an opportunity into something that is within their awareness.
 Then step zero, going from invisible to impossible. That is the step zero. “Oh, that’s impossible. I could never do that. I don’t see how that’s possible.” That’s step zero.
 The transformation starts when they go from the impossible to, “Hmm, that could be possible. You have 1,000 people in this community that has made this transformation? Wow. You’ve helped that many people? It is possible.”
 Then the next step is to probable. “I could probably do this. I don’t have all the answers. I may not know my path yet, but this is probable. I could do this.”
 Then the third step moves to inevitable. “This is going to happen. Oh yeah. Let’s make this happen. Yeah.”
 Hugh: Minus one is where-
 Mark: Minus one is invisible. Don’t even know it is possible.
 Hugh: Invisible, okay.
 Mark: Step zero is impossible.
 Hugh: Okay. One is possible.
 Mark: Possible.
 Hugh: Two is probable.
 Mark: Two is probable.
 Hugh: And three is?
 Mark: Inevitable.
 Hugh: Inevitable.
 Mark: This is going to happen! I know how to do this. Whoo-hoo. Help me!
 Hugh: Russell is scribing these. He is capturing the brilliance.
 Mark: That is all based on increasing belief because the transformation has not yet become physical. It is still nonphysical. It is thought and that is about it. Now we cross over from the nonphysical to the physical, from the belief to the real. Step four is real. We go from inevitable to real.
 From real to sustainable. I did it! Okay, let’s do it again. I can do this any time I want. That is sustainable.
 Then we go from sustainable, step five, to step six, which is normal. “I do this all the time. Sure, of course. This is just part of my life.”
 To step seven, which is historical. “I have always done it this way.”
 If we are working people through a transformational process—invisible, impossible, possible, probable, inevitable, real, sustainable, normal, historical—if we can run people through that process, we can help them through their transformation.
 But here is the most important aspect. You can’t take somebody from impossible to inevitable in one step. That is the psychology of leadership. We have to help them move from impossible to probable. We have to help them move from probable to inevitable. We have to help them move from inevitable to real. Each one of those is a step, as we are crossing this chasm, let’s call it a river, from impossible to historical, going from one side to the other. Every step is a slippery rock that as they reach out with their foot, it may feel like, “I don’t know if I can do this.” Our job as leaders is to hold their finger, hold their hand.
 When I was raising my kids, we would do- Kids were going across the rocks, and I would give them a finger. All they had to do was hang onto my finger. That was enough to give them the confidence to take the step. My kids would grab that finger, and we could move them. You did this, right? Russell, you’ve done this with your kids? Just give them a little bit. We don’t need to hold them in an airman’s grip. We just have to give them a finger to hang onto.
 Russell: If you don’t want to carry them, you just give them that finger. It’s just enough. Less is more.
 Mark: That’s right.
 Russell: More, and they step into that power. That’s what it’s about. Whatever the mind can conceive and make itself believe, it can achieve. That is a process.
 Mark: You just summarized those seven plus two steps in three words.
 Hugh: Thank you, Mr. Hill.
 Mark: Yes indeed.
 Hugh: That is a profound statement. I was really small, walking with my father, and I would hold a finger. One day, he put a stick there. I kept going because I thought I had his hand. All I had was a stick. When I grew up, I repeated that dirty trick with my kids.
 Russell: Interesting. That brings a story to mind. I don’t know how old I was. I may have been two or three. My mother used to carry me upstairs at night. One night, my mother and sister brought me upstairs, stood me in front of the crib, and said, “Okay. Climb in.” I was baffled. I didn’t do anything. So they said, “Okay, well, you will climb in or you will stand there all night.” I don’t know how long I stood there. It turns out they were there watching. It wasn’t very long. I climbed up in that crib. Oh, okay, I got to do this or it’s not going to happen. I never forgot that. I don’t remember much that happened before five. As five gets further away, it’s harder to remember. But that was something I never forgot. A lot of life is like that.
 Hugh: That’s a great story. That’s a big leadership example.
 The last one of your five topics for the year is Turning Unrest into Peace: How to Divorce Your Organization from the Media’s Promotion of Outrage. What ever are you talking about?
 Mark: I’ll be delighted to share with you. With the broad spread availability of Internet and mobile devices, the media got out of the news business. The reason why is the news was available any time I chose to pick up my mobile device and read the news from dozens of news sources. The fundamental TV news made a wholesale pivot from news to opinion and entertainment. You watch any of the mainstream news, and they are not delivering news. They are delivering opinion, not even fact. Opinion. It’s the mot hilarious thing. I watch the news now and laugh. I just see it like reality TV. It is completely scripted. Whatever side they are trying to spin, that is what it is. What is truth? I have no idea anymore. The challenge is to get people to watch opinion, you have to generate outreach. You have to go to them and say, “Isn’t this awful? Isn’t this unfair? This is just horrible. I can’t see how we can even stand doing this anymore.” That outrage allows you to sit through the commercials for pharmaceutical products that help you fix the outrage. You laugh because it’s true.
 Russell: Okay. I’m going to give up on MSNBC and Fox Noise because-
 Mark: It is noise. I can watch Hannity once a week. It’s the same story every night.
 Here’s the thing. First of all, you have to realize that the news business is really to do one thing. It’s not to inform you. It’s to sell advertising. Pure and simple. Their job is to create a community that wants to be outraged a specific way and to promote that outrage so people feel like something is going on. They feel like something is important, but the reality my friends, in the world of charitable organizations, we are offering another way of thinking, another way of feeling. We are offering perhaps a better feeling. I feel way better after going to church than I do after watching the evening news. That circles back to our #1 point today, which is omnichannel. We have to keep providing our message on a regular basis daily, hourly, morning, evening to counter all of the outrage that people are being fed from a commercial stream. Go ahead. Carry on. What do you have in mind there, Hugh?
 Hugh: Wow. Wow. Where people are getting into an emotional state, not a factual thinking leadership functioning state. We are going into this-
 Mark: Facts don’t matter anymore when it comes to mainstream news.
 Hugh: We are in a post-truth culture.
 Mark: We are. It’s really interesting.
 Hugh: When we hear comments like “The media lies,” I watched purposefully for several weeks reports on CNN, CBN, PBS, and FOX. They were all different.
 Mark: Yes.
 Hugh: Which one is lying? Or are they all lying?
 Mark: None of them are lying. They are presenting their vision of what they want you to believe. Facts have nothing to do with anything. They believe It’s true. They look you square in the eye through the camera and make you believe they believe it. And they do. Otherwise they couldn’t deliver that.
 Let’s circle back to the facts that matter to us and to constituents of our organization. That is what we need to focus on.
 Hugh: We have eight minutes. We are wrapping up here. That is a perfect segue, thank you. Go ahead.
 Mark: The whole point is we need to make sure our message and our leadership and our direction and our transformation is absolutely clear. We have to supply at last some rational thinking. When people say, “Did you hear what the news was?” and the answer is, “Do you believe it?” Let’s focus on something you can believe. So help pivot people away from buying into something that we keep illustrating over and over again is patently not in alignment with the belief and the worldview that we wish. We have to substitute the worldview that our tribe wishes to see.
 Personally, I see humanity as growing, expanding, being bigger-hearted than ever before. The people in my environment, the people I bump into, including the folks on the street that ask me for help, are doing better than ever before. My job is to elevate, not to outrage. I think that there are way more people that have that desire than ever before, and perhaps that is why Cartoon Network has a higher rating than CNN. It’s because we want to feel good. We don’t want to feel bad. As a charitable organization, bringing that good news to people and giving them things they can do to feel better about themselves and to improve humanity and their tribe is probably the ultimate thing we can bring to our constituents.
 Russell: To piggyback on what you are saying, out of my own experience, I was an advertising salesman for WGAM TV while I was in college. Our most expensive segment was the news slots. That supports that, and that has been the case for quite some time now. That was a few years ago.
 The other thing is people are looking to raise their level of consciousness. The media likes to exacerbate this idea of taking sides. One thing that happened to me as a result of my experience working with the Native American tribe is I became nonpartisan here. The people who were going to help you may be on other sides of the aisle. I was literally more interested in what was going to benefit my tribe than what fit their politics. What we are talking about really is raising our level of consciousness. Me, for the most part, I am tuned out on those things. I can’t watch that stuff. If I do happen to catch glimpses of it, nobody lives out in the middle of nowhere. There are a few people off the grid, but you will be exposed to some of the noise. Does that noise matter? We are trying to raise our level of consciousness, and there are people who need our help. When that is the driving thing, you learn how to play nice with others, but you don’t always have to agree on everything, except who is it you want to help and how can you get there. You leave all of the ego and crap on the doorstep and come together to perform missions. I’m glad you haven’t said anything that made me so angry I have to go put a nasty tweet out. I have a Twitter account, and I don’t want to use it.
 Mark: Personally, I have a positive posting policy. If I can’t say something nice, I write them a letter and burn it.
 Russell: As long as you don’t mail it. That could get you in a lot of trouble.
 Mark: If you are writing a letter to somebody or emailing, don’t ever put their address in there as you write it. Otherwise you might by accident send it. Guilty as charged.
 Russell: It’s good to write letters every once in a while. Us old guys write letters. You can write letters. Younger folks out there, it’s a dying art. It’s fun.
 Mark: It’s great fun. I wrote myself a letter on New Year’s Eve. It’s part of our ritual: to write ourselves letters.
 Just to wrap up this segment, an important component is what is your core principle as a leader? Focus on activities that will provide you and your tribe with those core principles. My core principle is freedom. Everything I do needs to lead me to freedom. Freedom of thought, freedom of action, freedom of life. From that freedom, I can serve people. I can’t serve people when I am not free, from a thought standpoint, a physical standpoint, a monetary standpoint. I use that personally as my filter. If I am going to do something, say something, act in some way, the question is: Does this bring me closer to more freedom, or does this take freedom away from me? It could be anything else. It could be oneness. It could be joy. It could be love. It doesn’t really matter. All of them boil down to the same situation anyway. Just that word resonates with me. I think ultimately that is what we need to do to bring peace to our tribe.
 Hugh: Our strategy is Russell and I encourage people to be very clear on their vision while they are doing something. As charities, we have to be very good at defining the impact of our work. What difference will it make? We achieve all of that through setting powerful goals. You have given us a whole lot of ideas for goals. Russell mentioned him before, and he is looking behind you there. Behind you is Henry Ford.
 Mark: Actually that is Edison. Carry on.
 Hugh: They lived next door to each other down in Fort Myers.
 Mark: They did.
 Hugh: Edison said he never failed; he just found 9,999 things that didn’t work before he invented the light bulb. Ford said obstacles are what you see when you take your mind off your goals. They are both dedicated to excellence. They were both in tune with the culture and trends of their day.
 Mark Smith, I don’t know a lot of people with two middle initials. Mark S. A. Smith. You stand out from all those other Mark Smiths.
 Mark: That is the reason why. That way you can find me on Google.
 Hugh: They are impostors.
 Mark: No, they are not impostors. They are just hiding.
 Hugh: This is really rich in content. Russell, do you have a closing comment you want to leave here?
 Russell: There we are. I’d like to thank Mark for the thoughts he dropped. You are preaching to the choir. It’s about who you are. That’s a message that has to ring true. Who are you? Who are you, and that way you can connect with the people that you are aligned with. I love the alignment. Great comments. Notes in the SynerVision Leadership webinar notebook. I have the notes, Hugh. It will also be out there for folks to look at. It’s a great day here.
 Hugh: Super. Mark, thank you for being here and sharing your wisdom with us.
 Mark: Delightful to be here. Thank you for the invitation to do so. We have plenty more in 2018.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2018 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7f63f6e8-b329-11eb-9f0f-878754251a7d/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Mark S A Smith Shares His Wisdom for Nonprofit Leaders</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary> 
 Mark S A Smith is the author of 13 popular books and sales guides and has authored more than 400 magazine articles. He is a genuine Guerrilla Marketing guru, co-authoring three books with Jay Conrad Levinson, and is a certified Guerrilla Marketing Coach.   A renaissance man with many talents, Mark is passionate about leadership, team building, teamwork, sales, and marketing. For over twenty years Mark has served as a strategic advisor to corporate leaders and executives all over the world who must develop the best way to bring in the right strategies for successful growth and sustainability.   What makes him different is he brings a holistic view of the business instead of solely focusing on one aspect and ignoring the impact of decisions on the rest of the organization   How to Get the Most Out of 2018 Tapping into the top five trends to grow your nonprofit:  Omnichannel – allow members to consume you anywhere and every way
 How the growing economy creates monetary opportunities
 The impact of higher unemployment on your volunteer force and how to pivot to get all you need
 New leadership demands: what’s changing and how to stay out front
 Turning unrest into peace: how to divorce your organization from the media’s promotion of outrage
  Interview Transcript
  
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis on this version of The Nonprofit Exchange. A dear friend who I see too rarely, we have been talking virtually but now we are together. I said, Why don’t we talk about some things that are on your radar?” Mark S. A. Smith, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Mark S. A. Smith: Such a delight to be here. Thank you, Hugh. Hello, Russell. Hello, friends on Facebook. Welcome. We have a lot of interesting things to talk about because 2018 is going to be an astounding year. You might be listening to this in 2020 or 2024. But you know something? What we are talking about today will probably still be issues even in the next five to ten years. Or opportunities, as the case may be.
 Hugh: We record messages that are timeless. But you’re right. We are turning the page into 2018 as we are recording this. If you are a regular listener, you know you can go to thenonprofitexchange.org and see the video versions of these. But you can go to iTunes and download the audio there.
 Mark, you are in a series of really powerful interviews we have done over three years. We are starting our fourth year of these great interviews. What we endeavor to do more often than not is find people that have business expertise. Let’s install that particular business expertise into the charity. It might be a church, a synagogue, a membership organization, or a community foundation, but it’s some sort of philanthropic work that we’re doing. Before we get into the subject matter, which I’m going to hold off in giving people a title, tell people a little bit about Mark Smith and why you are able to talk about this topic today.
 Mark: I help people sell complex, expensive, high-consideration things as fast as humanly possible. I am an electrical engineer; therefore, I am a systems thinker. I have recovered. I don’t sell or do engineering very much, but I do help people sell complex things. That is where you have multiple people involved in making the decision. Each person has a different view of what creates value and what we need to do. Sounds an awful lot like this nation, doesn’t it?
 Hugh: Yeah.
 Mark: How do you round up consensus? How do you have people go the same way? Just like when you’re working with nonprofits, herding cats is what we have to do. It’s the same thing when you have to sell expensive technology. What I’m doing here is applying all the things I have learned about selling very expensive things to the world of nonprofits. It’s absolutely identical. I, too, do work with a nonprofit. I am on a board here in Las Vegas where I live. I’ve been involved in nonprofits throughout my life. I understand, and I am delighted to share with you my business acumen. What I like to tell people is a nonprofit is not a business plan; it’s a tax status.
 Hugh: That’s not a philosophy, no. You’re very active on social media, especially Twitter. You put out little short memes with a few words on it. I gotta tell you, they are very thought-provoking. They help me focus on what’s important.
 Mark: I am honored that that happens. Thank you.
 Hugh: There has been this coincidence of you tweeting on the things we are actually talking about. Sometimes simultaneously. I find that to be fascinating.
 Mark: The issues are the same. Whether it’s nonprofits or the for-profit world, the issues we face are frankly identical.
 Hugh: I laugh when business leaders say, “That might work in the church.”
 Mark: Or the other side is that the religious leaders say, “That might work in business, but it won’t work in the church.”
 Hugh: If it’s true anywhere, it’s true everywhere.
 Mark: We’re humans working with humans.
 Hugh: I think we’ve stalled long enough in telling people what the topic is. What is the topic? Russell wants to know.
 Mark: All right, Russell. You’re ready? Today’s topic is how to get the most out of this year, which happens to be 2018. We are going to talk about five trends that are going on that you need to know about as the leader of your nonprofit to stay ahead of the game, to grow, and to prosper heading forward. Some of the things we are going to talk about are technology, and some of the things we are going to talk about are psychology.
 Hugh: Say that last sentence again. That caught me off guard.
 Mark: Don’t you know I do that to you? And you do the same to me when you’re speaking. Some of the things we are going to talk about are technology, understanding the technology that nonprofits have to be embracing and keeping track of and staying up with. Some of it happens to be psychology, what is happening in the general zeitgeist of the world and how they impact nonprofits. Whether you think they do or not, they do. Your constituents, your members, your flock all are impacted by what they see in the news and what they experience with retail and what happens in the business world. They carry those attitudes and insights into your organization, whether you want them to or not. We have to manage that. We have to deal with it. We have to capitalize whenever possible or perhaps even neutralize it in some cases. That is what I mean by psychology.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I think we’re guilty in any discipline. I know in the church, I have had people say to somebody, “You’re so heavily minded you’re no earthly good.” We all live in the reality of today. I can say that I served the church for 40 years and probably got to that space myself. I put in very carefully numbered bullet points. I noticed that I numbered them wrong. Our first one is, Omnichannel. Speak about that. Tell us what that means.
 Mark: Listener, have you ever had the situation where you were multi-tasking, perhaps watching television and checking your telephone for messages or tweets, or maybe even reading the news story you are watching on TV simultaneously to see what if you were seeing on TV made sense to other news channels? That’s omnichannels, my friend.
 The reality is we are multi-screening. You are getting information from multiple locations at all times in all ways. What this means to nonprofits is you have to be able to bring your message, bring your service to your constituents in every way that they consume information. Just by a show of hands, who here has for your organization—I see ten fingers there, well, eight fingers and two thumbs. Sometimes I am just all thumbs. Do you have an app? Do you have the opportunity of having your constituents consume your services, your podcasts, your sermons via a dedicated app that would alert them when something new becomes available? Are you using the technology to your benefit? Now if you’re doing that, fantastic. Just stay with it.
 You have to understand we live in an omnichannel world. We are consuming many things in many different ways. Mobile apps, partner locations, maybe figuring out other locations for people to access your services. Where do your constituents go that you can have a kiosk or a corner or something like that where people can plug in, enjoy, take advantage of, be reminded of, contribute to, consume whatever it is you are bringing to the marketplace? Since I don’t know what your nonprofit is, we are spraying and hoping you will catch a couple of ideas here.
 The concept here is you need to be everywhere that your people are every time you possibly can be. The reality is if you are a church, people are carrying around a sermon in a box in their mobile device. Chunk things up into five-minute pieces to give them a chance to remind, refresh, and renew. If you are supplying educational elements, keep pushing out opportunities for people to learn and to refresh. If you’re supplying the opportunity for people to volunteer, if they are standing in line or waiting at a traffic light and they can pull out their mobile device and contribute something in some sort of thought-provoking way, let them do so. That is what we mean by omnichannel. Take advantage of that any way you possibly can.
 Hugh: You said something about five-minute segments. Remind, refresh, and renew. Talk more about that.
 Mark: What I am finding is short segments of content that provoke people. Just like when you read something from me on Twitter, you’re telling me that I am inspiring you, I am provoking some thoughts, I am causing you to think about new things, maybe connect some new dots. The bulk of those tweets are 140 characters. There are some that run a little bit longer thanks to Twitter’s new length limits, but it’s a very short little boom. It’s a little thought bomb that goes off in your brain.
 As a nonprofit, most of us are in business to inspire, to have people live a better life, to improve their condition, to stay on target, to stay on task, to stay on the straight and narrow. That requires constant reminders. Another thing to keep in mind is if you are a church or an organization where people come to see you once a week or once a month, it’s not enough. They are bombarded by all these other messages and all these other counter-messages that they may not wish to consume. Our job is to remind them there is another way of thinking. There is another opportunity. There is better potential for them that they have already volunteered to be a part of. If we can chunk our messages from a text standpoint, an audio standpoint, or a short video standpoint to refresh, renew, and remind themselves there is a reason why those of us who have a spiritual practice, it’s a daily practice if not hourly.
 Hugh: Yes. Oh yes. That is so important. I think the biggest flaw I see in organizations is when people say, “They should know better because we told them that,” but they told them that in 1903, and you have repeated it since then.
 Mark: Here’s the problem, friends. You may have told them that, but the other side has told them their viewpoint a thousand times since the last time you said it.
 Hugh: Omnichannel. When I first saw that, I thought it was a piece of software.
 Mark: It’s a concept.
 Hugh: Russell is taking good notes. Do you want to weigh in on this omnichannel touchpoint? Mark, what you’re doing is top of mind marketing, isn’t it?
 Mark: Yes. Let’s just keep reminding them what they have asked us to remind them of.
 Hugh: Russell? He’s been very polite.
 Mark: He’s been quiet. He’s been smiling. He is giving me thumbs up. He is also muted.
 Russell Dennis: Not anymore. We can quickly fix that. Greetings and salutations, Mark. Good to see you again. It’s been a while. I was just typing that when you’re out there in multiple places, where your people are, and that’s the important thing to figure out is where your people are and getting out there and getting in front of them. We are in a short attention span society. If you’re not out there online, you’re left behind. It’s not a fad. It’s not a trend. It’s here to stay.
 Hugh: I think it’s also in person. Where do your people hang out? I am hearing omnichannel as virtual as well as live.
 Mark: Absolutely. Physical, too. It has to do with digital signage for example. Digital signage is omnichannel. Most of us have digital signage in our houses of worship. As I pointed out, as we talked about, where are they? Let’s see if we can put a digital sign in the places our people hang out to remind them of the messages they have agreed to consume.
 Hugh: Great. We are sitting at the top of 2018. Our market has been growing. There are over 100 companies that announced employee dividends and financial expansion of programs since the tax bill passed at the end of 2017. There are all kinds of energy and economy. Talk about how that benefits the nonprofit sector.
 Mark: We are sitting at the highest consumer satisfaction index of all time. I think it’s for a number of reasons. One is that a lot of people are feeling good about themselves again. A lot of them have hope for the future. A lot of them feel that in spite of the noise we hear on the mainstream news on a regular basis, locally, the communities are doing well. More people have jobs. More people are feeling good about what’s possible. Certainly my business has been substantially increased. As you pointed out, yours has, too. A big part of it is that my customers are looking forward to growth and therefore investing in opportunities to grow.
 As a nonprofit, you can plug into this feeling of goodness and growth, asking for more than you could ask for in the past. Requesting more. Asking people to donate more for perhaps more time, for perhaps a higher level of investment of themselves into the organization. When people are feeling good, they say yes to opportunities because it doesn’t feel like it’s so heavy. Doesn’t feel like it’s such a burden. When we feel depressed, it’s very hard for people to feel good about themselves.
 Hugh: What makes people say yes? I still have lots of-
 Mark: What a great question! I’m so glad you asked it. What makes people say yes is because your request is in alignment with their personal identity.
 Hugh: Whoa. Whoa. Hey, Russ. What does that trigger with you?
 Russell: It’s everything. Everything revolves around relationships now. People are starting to figure that out. It doesn’t matter what business you’re in. Now you have to build relationships. In the old days, you could just blurt out at people. There were very few places for them to get a message. They were fed by three big networks messages. Think about Henry Ford when he talked about the Model T. They can have any car they want as long as it’s black. Now people have choices. They have different avenues for expression, and they have short attention spans, so you have to resonate with people because they will look for another cause if they feel like they’re not being romanced, so to say. You have to keep that connection some type of way, keep thanking them, showing the impact they are making, and staying with it. People change. There are so many different causes that they can get involved with now. It’s like anything else to maintain that brand loyalty as it were. You have to connect with your tribe. People want a sense of connection and a sense of accomplishment. Younger people coming into the work force want to do work that matters.
 Hugh: Mark, I pinged Russell because many times in the interviews, he helps us remember that whether you are creating board members or talking to donors, we have to think about what it is they want, what they are interested in, what they want to achieve. There is a messaging piece that I was honing in on here. How do we form our message so that we do connect with that like-minded person?
 Mark: Let’s get back to the concept of personal identity. People buy things to support their identity or they buy things or engage in things to help them transform their identity into a new place that they desire to be. It’s a really important concept because all sales, all marketing, all recruiting, all conversion happens when a person sees their identity as that which you are offering as a nonprofit. That transformation for a lot of people is where we’re heading. As people grow, they transform. As young people go from high school to college, they are transforming. As they go from college into the workforce, they are transforming. That personal identity, how you view yourself and how you want to be viewed by—Russell, you said it right on—tribe, we choose our tribe, and the choices that we make determine our tribe. In a model I generated, those tribe decisions are mission-critical. The reason why is because if you make the wrong choices, the people who you might like may just stop calling you back. They may quit inviting you out. They might leave you on your own. That is where that personal identity comes into play. Identity happens way more than people realize. A great example of that is sports. Russell, do you consider yourself a sports fan?
 Russell: I love it.
 Mark: Do you have a team?
 Russell: Believe it or not, I root for the Cleveland Browns.
 Mark: Why the hell would an intelligent man like you root for such a losing team when a logical person would pick a winning team to root for?
 Russell: I grew up there.
 Mark: That’s it. Yes!
 Russell: I haven’t lived there in almost 40 years, but home is home.
 Mark: It’s part of your core identity. It is so deeply ingrained in your core identity that I couldn’t get you to wear a piece of the opposing team’s clothing even if I paid you. That’s the power of identity. When you as a nonprofit can tap into that identity, that is where you really get that brand experience where people refuse to go anywhere else. But you have to keep reinforcing that identity. You have to make sure that the identity you’re offering continues to shift in the proper direction over time. In a growing economy, people have the opportunity of transforming that identity. That is really where we’re going with this #2 point. It gives you a chance to perhaps recruit people, to bring people in that you haven’t been able to before because they couldn’t afford it, they didn’t have the bandwidth or the money. Now they do. Get very clear. A definitive passionate, audience that wants to be recognized or grow their identity can help you as an organization grow. Get really clear. Get really sharp about this. It will have a massive impact for you in 2018. Cool?
 Hugh: Absolutely. You talked about unemployment. The numbers show the unemployment figures at the end of 2017 were the lowest they’ve been in forever. But there are still people who are underemployed. They are not unemployed.
 Mark: In fact, those underemployed people are the ones who are perfect for volunteers. The reason why is as humans, we like to feel we are making a difference. Russell, you pointed that out in your last comments. We really want to feel we are doing good, like we are making a difference. When we are underemployed, we don’t have that feeling that we are living up to our potential. People in that environment can be invited to fulfill that in a nonprofit volunteer situation. Whether it’s an executive who has moved to a lower position, who needs to give back and still provide that strategic input, that is the perfect person to capture for example. Or perhaps the stay at home mom who went back to work because her kids are out of the house, and as she enters back in, she doesn’t go back in at the top level where she started. She comes in at a lower level, and she needs to fill that gap of feeling good about herself until she can be promoted up to that new level. That is the opportunity that you as a nonprofit can fill.
 Hugh: You spoke earlier about working with a local nonprofit in Las Vegas where you live. Why did you say yes to that?
 Mark: For two reasons. One is that I have an expertise that the association can use. I can benefit the association in quite a few different ways because of my deep history in business and as a professional. And that association also allows me, it feeds me in that I get to be with other people whose future is my history. And so I get a chance to give back because if I rewind my life back 30 years, I was the person who is being served by the mentor who I get to be today.
 Hugh: So your input is important to shaping the future of their work.
 Mark: And they have a desire to have a similar experience that I had. When we are looking for a mentor—this is probably one of the best pieces of advice I’ve had in my life—look for somebody whose history is your future. They can help you plot the path. While your paths will be slightly different, the fundamentals won’t be that far off.
 Hugh: Russell, did you capture that last comment?
 Russell: I did not. I was in the process of typing that. I don’t type very quickly. This is interesting because what we are talking about, there are three things that a nonprofit needs: time, talent, and treasure. We get obsessed with the money and forget about time and talent. Especially with people who are underemployed, people have different motivations for joining you. When you are clear about what it is you are trying to do and you have inventoried all of your assets, which include time, talent, skills, knowledge, abilities, those are all assets to the nonprofit. When you can leverage that and get other people, it’s like money in the bank because you go out, build relationships, get sponsors for media, cash sponsors, you go out and get people to contribute pro bono services, you bring students in, you bring professional firms. There is a number of different ways to approach getting pro bono talent. When you are clear on who you are and what you need, you can offer these folks some time. Maybe they need to build their portfolio. Maybe they are tried and just want to give back. Maybe they are entering the workforce. Maybe they are underemployed and want to have some projects and creations of their own. You can set that table. When you are clear on what it is that people want, then they will come support you and always keep evaluating, putting challenges out there for them to stretch and grow and invest in their learning. They have reasons to stick with you in that case.
 Mark: Right on. I think if you get the time and talent right, the treasure follows automatically. The reason why is what is money? It is a reward for doing what others want. It’s canned labor. That’s another way of looking at it.
 Russell: Canned labor, but meaningful labor. It’s not standing at a copy machine all day or making coffee. It’s actually creating things. Building your social media strategy, writing policies, it’s endless the number of things you can find volunteers to do that they can help support the organization with. Yes, even fundraising. The sky’s the limit. It’s up to your own creativity and finding out what moves people. If you don’t have any money, you probably have time and talent.
 Mark: They probably know people. There is also ways of converting some of that talent and some of that time into treasure. If you think about it, that’s what a business does. It converts time and talent into treasure. As a nonprofit, you can do exactly the same thing. Your tax status permits that to happen.
 Hugh: Money is also reward for providing value.
 Russell: Another way to keep score.
 Mark: That’s universally agreed upon.
 Hugh: Back to where we were talking at the beginning of this interview about installing sound business principles into the charity. I am using charity purposefully here. Sometimes we use the word “nonprofit,” which spins us into this scarcity thinking that we can’t generate a profit. But the profit is what pays for the philanthropic work of the organization. Like you said, it’s not a business plan. It’s not a philosophy. It’s a tax classification. It’s really tax exempt work. We are getting a lot of useful content today about leveraging what is around us instead of getting stuck in our hole, our silo. You ready to move to the next one?
 Mark: Let’s do it. I think we have beaten that topic up a little bit. I like it.
 Hugh: #3 is New Leadership Demands. What is changing, and how do we stay out front? I remember years ago people were hiring the motivational speaker. Give me rah, rah. Then people left the room, and it was over. People aren’t hiring motivational speakers. They are hiring people with solid, executable content. What has changed in the leadership segment? What are you thinking about?
 Mark: What I see is the informational speaker and the inspirational speaker versus motivational speaker. Let’s talk about that, and then we will go on to the topic of what’s changing with leadership. The difference between a motivational speaker and an inspirational speaker is very simple. If we go back to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, which I see as a fundamental to everything we do, both within the charitable sector as well as the business sector, those two lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy is physical needs and then security. Within those two levels, you can motivate people. It’s basically a pain-based motivation. Once we get to that next level, where you have love and self-esteem and move up to self-actualization, that is where inspiration comes into play. If people are in pain, you have to motivate them. If people are out of pain, then you can inspire them. Don’t try to be inspirational when people are hungry and tired and scared. That doesn’t work. It’s just frustrating. They will nod their heads and do what they need to do to get the hell out of your view so they can go get some food or drink or get warm or whatever. We have to help people to the third level of Maslow because we can start to inspire them.
 With that in mind, from a leadership standpoint, understanding your leadership is 100% contextual on the state of the person and ultimately the team you are working with. That is not a blinding flash of the obvious to most of you, but we have to be reminded of that because a lot of the traditional leadership mantras that we hear are being offered from the top of Maslow’s hierarchy. But a lot of the people we are leading are way down the hierarchy, and we have to remember that sometimes it’s just giving them a shoulder to cry on and taking them out to lunch or buying them a cup of coffee. Sometimes that’s all the leadership they need in that moment.
 Hugh: Wow. That’s a paradigm shift. What are you thinking there, Russ? You’re smiling.
 Russell: The thought came to mind that great leaders always have a pulse on where their people are because no two people are in the same place. Cookie cutter leadership doesn’t work. It may have worked back at the turn of the 20th century.
 Mark: It didn’t work then either, Russell. I hate to tell you, pal. It was just misreported.
 Russell: They pushed it as, “Get in line or go work somewhere else.” That doesn’t work. Good leaders build other leaders around them because that is what makes a great leader look good. We have people who can execute or delegate, and she is doing high level functions. Sometimes you have high performance individuals, and it is really hard- When they have been driving the train for a long time, it’s really difficult for them to take a step back because they have their vision and it’s their baby. They have a hard time taking a step back. This is a way that leaders have to grow in. If people in the work force today aren’t getting work that means something. They move on. Do yourself a favor and let other people help you.
 Mark: I think some of the things we have to take a look at from a change standpoint is that our millennial culture, I raised five millennial children. None of them live at home. I consider myself to be a success. They don’t put up with ultimatums. They’ll just raise their middle finger and wave you goodbye. The reality is that leadership is now voluntary. It was always voluntary, but it is now absolutely voluntary. People accept leadership voluntarily, and a charitable organization has always been voluntary. We have to become a whole lot more about what it is you are looking for. How can I help you grow? Where do you want to go? What do you need to help you get there? Can we help you get there? It’s a lot more of the let’s figure out where our tribe needs to go and bring that to them. I think that’s a big component of that. We raised our children to question authority. The boomer generation just shakes their head at, “I am a boomer.” Friends, I raise that generation. I raised them to be what I wanted to be when I was their age, which was to have the freedom to ask questions and to push back and to say, “That’s really stupid. Why do you make that?” When I was a kid, that earned a slap across the face, so I learned to shut up very quickly. I let my kids ask those questions. They were hard questions. They made me a better man.
 That also means that military-style, authoritarian leadership will no longer work. It has to be collaborative leadership. But how do we do collaborative leadership? It’s simple. You just ask people. You ultimately, as the leader of your organization, get to make the decision. But you also have to have that collaboration of how we arrive at the destination. You are responsible for the destination. Then we collaborate on how we get there. That is what I see as being a major shift.
 Hugh: That is especially true in nonprofits because we do attract some capable people. We think we have to do it as a leader because we don’t want to bother them because they are volunteers and are busy in their real life.
 Mark: But wait a minute. That’s why they showed up.
 Hugh: You got it. I set that one up good. You are really interfering with what somebody has come to do. That seems like a logical step. That is a huge problem. Bowen leadership systems, Murray Bowen as a psychiatrist created this whole leadership methodology. He talks about that as overfunctioning, and the reciprocity to overfunctioning is underfunctioning. Especially when you have a boomer, me, and you are talking to millennials, like the editor of our magazine, Todd, he says, “Tell me where you want to be, and let me get there.” Nobody likes being told the steps or micromanaged. Millennials like it the least of any particular segment. You raised five millennials, and I don’t see any wounds on your body.
 Mark: I’m a much better man. Before I raised my five millennial kids, I was a jerk.
 Hugh: Really?
 Mark: Yeah. I knew everything. I knew exactly how to do it, and I could prove it. If you didn’t believe me, I’d write a book about it.
 Hugh: Wow.
 Russell: I just sense that pleasure. Here’s the thing, Mark. They’ll be back. They will bring more with them.
 Mark: It gets better and better and more disruptive and more delicious.
 Hugh: There is a story of this conductor, who are known to have healthy egos. This conductor walks into a restaurant with a whole bunch of musicians. One person stood up on one side and said, “All conductors are jerks.” Whoa, it got back like this. On the other side, somebody stood up and said, “I resent that comment.” The conductor looked at him and said, “Hey, are you a conductor, too?” He says, “No, I’m a jerk.” I love it. That is a reframed lawyer joke.
 Mark: The way I like to talk about conductors is conductors are highly skilled. They can play every instrument in the orchestra. They can. But not well enough to make a living. At the end of the show-
 Russell: [hard to hear] tickets on the train, either.
 Hugh: The model you are talking about is the conductor doesn’t tell them step by step what they do. The conductor says to the oboe player, the violinist, whatever, “This is the effect I want. This is the result I want.” They guide the process.
 I wanted to segue into that as a model for what you’re talking about. That has been a consistent model over the decades. If we look at that in today’s world, leadership as a profound influence and not the micro that you are talking about, do this, do this, do this. It’s a nuance of engaging people and empowering people to raise the bar. That is the essence of transformational leadership really: building a culture of high performers that respond to you.
 So we are looking at what has changed, but also we are looking at- Earlier, you talked about transformation. There is a transformation in ourselves before we can be effective. How does that link with what you’re talking about?
 Mark: Everybody that I know is going through some form of transformation. They are trying to add a new skill. They are trying to let go of an old habit they see as not serving their life any further. They may be going through a spiritual revolution where they are going from less spiritual to more spiritual. It may be that they are looking for a physical transformation, losing weight, adding muscle, adding health. Those transformations always trigger help because if we could do it on our own, we already would have. We need either skills or encouragement or motivation or a tribe to travel with.
 Let’s talk about transformation for just a minute. Let’s have some fun with this. I know that we bumped into this idea with me before, Hugh, and let’s talk about it. I think we have enough time. It’s fairly simple. There is fundamentally a seven-step process in transformation, plus a step zero and a step minus one.
 Hugh: Ooh, do tell.
 Mark: The first half is about belief. The second half is about knowledge. The difference between belief and knowledge is a manifestation in the physical world. Step minus one is where they want to go. The transformation they want to enjoy is invisible. They can’t even see it. It’s not even within their awareness. It’s not even possible. They hadn’t even thought of it. If you as a charitable organization want to find new people, part of your job is to message the outcome that you deliver so that we can take people who don’t even see that as an opportunity into something that is within their awareness.
 Then step zero, going from invisible to impossible. That is the step zero. “Oh, that’s impossible. I could never do that. I don’t see how that’s possible.” That’s step zero.
 The transformation starts when they go from the impossible to, “Hmm, that could be possible. You have 1,000 people in this community that has made this transformation? Wow. You’ve helped that many people? It is possible.”
 Then the next step is to probable. “I could probably do this. I don’t have all the answers. I may not know my path yet, but this is probable. I could do this.”
 Then the third step moves to inevitable. “This is going to happen. Oh yeah. Let’s make this happen. Yeah.”
 Hugh: Minus one is where-
 Mark: Minus one is invisible. Don’t even know it is possible.
 Hugh: Invisible, okay.
 Mark: Step zero is impossible.
 Hugh: Okay. One is possible.
 Mark: Possible.
 Hugh: Two is probable.
 Mark: Two is probable.
 Hugh: And three is?
 Mark: Inevitable.
 Hugh: Inevitable.
 Mark: This is going to happen! I know how to do this. Whoo-hoo. Help me!
 Hugh: Russell is scribing these. He is capturing the brilliance.
 Mark: That is all based on increasing belief because the transformation has not yet become physical. It is still nonphysical. It is thought and that is about it. Now we cross over from the nonphysical to the physical, from the belief to the real. Step four is real. We go from inevitable to real.
 From real to sustainable. I did it! Okay, let’s do it again. I can do this any time I want. That is sustainable.
 Then we go from sustainable, step five, to step six, which is normal. “I do this all the time. Sure, of course. This is just part of my life.”
 To step seven, which is historical. “I have always done it this way.”
 If we are working people through a transformational process—invisible, impossible, possible, probable, inevitable, real, sustainable, normal, historical—if we can run people through that process, we can help them through their transformation.
 But here is the most important aspect. You can’t take somebody from impossible to inevitable in one step. That is the psychology of leadership. We have to help them move from impossible to probable. We have to help them move from probable to inevitable. We have to help them move from inevitable to real. Each one of those is a step, as we are crossing this chasm, let’s call it a river, from impossible to historical, going from one side to the other. Every step is a slippery rock that as they reach out with their foot, it may feel like, “I don’t know if I can do this.” Our job as leaders is to hold their finger, hold their hand.
 When I was raising my kids, we would do- Kids were going across the rocks, and I would give them a finger. All they had to do was hang onto my finger. That was enough to give them the confidence to take the step. My kids would grab that finger, and we could move them. You did this, right? Russell, you’ve done this with your kids? Just give them a little bit. We don’t need to hold them in an airman’s grip. We just have to give them a finger to hang onto.
 Russell: If you don’t want to carry them, you just give them that finger. It’s just enough. Less is more.
 Mark: That’s right.
 Russell: More, and they step into that power. That’s what it’s about. Whatever the mind can conceive and make itself believe, it can achieve. That is a process.
 Mark: You just summarized those seven plus two steps in three words.
 Hugh: Thank you, Mr. Hill.
 Mark: Yes indeed.
 Hugh: That is a profound statement. I was really small, walking with my father, and I would hold a finger. One day, he put a stick there. I kept going because I thought I had his hand. All I had was a stick. When I grew up, I repeated that dirty trick with my kids.
 Russell: Interesting. That brings a story to mind. I don’t know how old I was. I may have been two or three. My mother used to carry me upstairs at night. One night, my mother and sister brought me upstairs, stood me in front of the crib, and said, “Okay. Climb in.” I was baffled. I didn’t do anything. So they said, “Okay, well, you will climb in or you will stand there all night.” I don’t know how long I stood there. It turns out they were there watching. It wasn’t very long. I climbed up in that crib. Oh, okay, I got to do this or it’s not going to happen. I never forgot that. I don’t remember much that happened before five. As five gets further away, it’s harder to remember. But that was something I never forgot. A lot of life is like that.
 Hugh: That’s a great story. That’s a big leadership example.
 The last one of your five topics for the year is Turning Unrest into Peace: How to Divorce Your Organization from the Media’s Promotion of Outrage. What ever are you talking about?
 Mark: I’ll be delighted to share with you. With the broad spread availability of Internet and mobile devices, the media got out of the news business. The reason why is the news was available any time I chose to pick up my mobile device and read the news from dozens of news sources. The fundamental TV news made a wholesale pivot from news to opinion and entertainment. You watch any of the mainstream news, and they are not delivering news. They are delivering opinion, not even fact. Opinion. It’s the mot hilarious thing. I watch the news now and laugh. I just see it like reality TV. It is completely scripted. Whatever side they are trying to spin, that is what it is. What is truth? I have no idea anymore. The challenge is to get people to watch opinion, you have to generate outreach. You have to go to them and say, “Isn’t this awful? Isn’t this unfair? This is just horrible. I can’t see how we can even stand doing this anymore.” That outrage allows you to sit through the commercials for pharmaceutical products that help you fix the outrage. You laugh because it’s true.
 Russell: Okay. I’m going to give up on MSNBC and Fox Noise because-
 Mark: It is noise. I can watch Hannity once a week. It’s the same story every night.
 Here’s the thing. First of all, you have to realize that the news business is really to do one thing. It’s not to inform you. It’s to sell advertising. Pure and simple. Their job is to create a community that wants to be outraged a specific way and to promote that outrage so people feel like something is going on. They feel like something is important, but the reality my friends, in the world of charitable organizations, we are offering another way of thinking, another way of feeling. We are offering perhaps a better feeling. I feel way better after going to church than I do after watching the evening news. That circles back to our #1 point today, which is omnichannel. We have to keep providing our message on a regular basis daily, hourly, morning, evening to counter all of the outrage that people are being fed from a commercial stream. Go ahead. Carry on. What do you have in mind there, Hugh?
 Hugh: Wow. Wow. Where people are getting into an emotional state, not a factual thinking leadership functioning state. We are going into this-
 Mark: Facts don’t matter anymore when it comes to mainstream news.
 Hugh: We are in a post-truth culture.
 Mark: We are. It’s really interesting.
 Hugh: When we hear comments like “The media lies,” I watched purposefully for several weeks reports on CNN, CBN, PBS, and FOX. They were all different.
 Mark: Yes.
 Hugh: Which one is lying? Or are they all lying?
 Mark: None of them are lying. They are presenting their vision of what they want you to believe. Facts have nothing to do with anything. They believe It’s true. They look you square in the eye through the camera and make you believe they believe it. And they do. Otherwise they couldn’t deliver that.
 Let’s circle back to the facts that matter to us and to constituents of our organization. That is what we need to focus on.
 Hugh: We have eight minutes. We are wrapping up here. That is a perfect segue, thank you. Go ahead.
 Mark: The whole point is we need to make sure our message and our leadership and our direction and our transformation is absolutely clear. We have to supply at last some rational thinking. When people say, “Did you hear what the news was?” and the answer is, “Do you believe it?” Let’s focus on something you can believe. So help pivot people away from buying into something that we keep illustrating over and over again is patently not in alignment with the belief and the worldview that we wish. We have to substitute the worldview that our tribe wishes to see.
 Personally, I see humanity as growing, expanding, being bigger-hearted than ever before. The people in my environment, the people I bump into, including the folks on the street that ask me for help, are doing better than ever before. My job is to elevate, not to outrage. I think that there are way more people that have that desire than ever before, and perhaps that is why Cartoon Network has a higher rating than CNN. It’s because we want to feel good. We don’t want to feel bad. As a charitable organization, bringing that good news to people and giving them things they can do to feel better about themselves and to improve humanity and their tribe is probably the ultimate thing we can bring to our constituents.
 Russell: To piggyback on what you are saying, out of my own experience, I was an advertising salesman for WGAM TV while I was in college. Our most expensive segment was the news slots. That supports that, and that has been the case for quite some time now. That was a few years ago.
 The other thing is people are looking to raise their level of consciousness. The media likes to exacerbate this idea of taking sides. One thing that happened to me as a result of my experience working with the Native American tribe is I became nonpartisan here. The people who were going to help you may be on other sides of the aisle. I was literally more interested in what was going to benefit my tribe than what fit their politics. What we are talking about really is raising our level of consciousness. Me, for the most part, I am tuned out on those things. I can’t watch that stuff. If I do happen to catch glimpses of it, nobody lives out in the middle of nowhere. There are a few people off the grid, but you will be exposed to some of the noise. Does that noise matter? We are trying to raise our level of consciousness, and there are people who need our help. When that is the driving thing, you learn how to play nice with others, but you don’t always have to agree on everything, except who is it you want to help and how can you get there. You leave all of the ego and crap on the doorstep and come together to perform missions. I’m glad you haven’t said anything that made me so angry I have to go put a nasty tweet out. I have a Twitter account, and I don’t want to use it.
 Mark: Personally, I have a positive posting policy. If I can’t say something nice, I write them a letter and burn it.
 Russell: As long as you don’t mail it. That could get you in a lot of trouble.
 Mark: If you are writing a letter to somebody or emailing, don’t ever put their address in there as you write it. Otherwise you might by accident send it. Guilty as charged.
 Russell: It’s good to write letters every once in a while. Us old guys write letters. You can write letters. Younger folks out there, it’s a dying art. It’s fun.
 Mark: It’s great fun. I wrote myself a letter on New Year’s Eve. It’s part of our ritual: to write ourselves letters.
 Just to wrap up this segment, an important component is what is your core principle as a leader? Focus on activities that will provide you and your tribe with those core principles. My core principle is freedom. Everything I do needs to lead me to freedom. Freedom of thought, freedom of action, freedom of life. From that freedom, I can serve people. I can’t serve people when I am not free, from a thought standpoint, a physical standpoint, a monetary standpoint. I use that personally as my filter. If I am going to do something, say something, act in some way, the question is: Does this bring me closer to more freedom, or does this take freedom away from me? It could be anything else. It could be oneness. It could be joy. It could be love. It doesn’t really matter. All of them boil down to the same situation anyway. Just that word resonates with me. I think ultimately that is what we need to do to bring peace to our tribe.
 Hugh: Our strategy is Russell and I encourage people to be very clear on their vision while they are doing something. As charities, we have to be very good at defining the impact of our work. What difference will it make? We achieve all of that through setting powerful goals. You have given us a whole lot of ideas for goals. Russell mentioned him before, and he is looking behind you there. Behind you is Henry Ford.
 Mark: Actually that is Edison. Carry on.
 Hugh: They lived next door to each other down in Fort Myers.
 Mark: They did.
 Hugh: Edison said he never failed; he just found 9,999 things that didn’t work before he invented the light bulb. Ford said obstacles are what you see when you take your mind off your goals. They are both dedicated to excellence. They were both in tune with the culture and trends of their day.
 Mark Smith, I don’t know a lot of people with two middle initials. Mark S. A. Smith. You stand out from all those other Mark Smiths.
 Mark: That is the reason why. That way you can find me on Google.
 Hugh: They are impostors.
 Mark: No, they are not impostors. They are just hiding.
 Hugh: This is really rich in content. Russell, do you have a closing comment you want to leave here?
 Russell: There we are. I’d like to thank Mark for the thoughts he dropped. You are preaching to the choir. It’s about who you are. That’s a message that has to ring true. Who are you? Who are you, and that way you can connect with the people that you are aligned with. I love the alignment. Great comments. Notes in the SynerVision Leadership webinar notebook. I have the notes, Hugh. It will also be out there for folks to look at. It’s a great day here.
 Hugh: Super. Mark, thank you for being here and sharing your wisdom with us.
 Mark: Delightful to be here. Thank you for the invitation to do so. We have plenty more in 2018.
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        <![CDATA[<p> </p> <strong>Mark S A Smith</strong> is the author of 13 popular books and sales guides and has authored more than 400 magazine articles. He is a genuine Guerrilla Marketing guru, co-authoring three books with Jay Conrad Levinson, and is a certified Guerrilla Marketing Coach.   A renaissance man with many talents, Mark is passionate about leadership, team building, teamwork, sales, and marketing. For over twenty years Mark has served as a strategic advisor to corporate leaders and executives all over the world who must develop the best way to bring in the right strategies for successful growth and sustainability.   What makes him different is he brings a holistic view of the business instead of solely focusing on one aspect and ignoring the impact of decisions on the rest of the organization   <strong>How to Get the Most Out of 2018</strong> Tapping into the top five trends to grow your nonprofit: <ol> <li>Omnichannel – allow members to consume you anywhere and every way</li> <li>How the growing economy creates monetary opportunities</li> <li>The impact of higher unemployment on your volunteer force and how to pivot to get all you need</li> <li>New leadership demands: what’s changing and how to stay out front</li> <li>Turning unrest into peace: how to divorce your organization from the media’s promotion of outrage</li> </ol> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis on this version of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> A dear friend who I see too rarely, we have been talking virtually but now we are together. I said, Why don’t we talk about some things that are on your radar?” Mark S. A. Smith, welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em></p> <p><strong>Mark S. A. Smith:</strong> Such a delight to be here. Thank you, Hugh. Hello, Russell. Hello, friends on Facebook. Welcome. We have a lot of interesting things to talk about because 2018 is going to be an astounding year. You might be listening to this in 2020 or 2024. But you know something? What we are talking about today will probably still be issues even in the next five to ten years. Or opportunities, as the case may be.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We record messages that are timeless. But you’re right. We are turning the page into 2018 as we are recording this. If you are a regular listener, you know you can go to thenonprofitexchange.org and see the video versions of these. But you can go to iTunes and download the audio there.</p> <p>Mark, you are in a series of really powerful interviews we have done over three years. We are starting our fourth year of these great interviews. What we endeavor to do more often than not is find people that have business expertise. Let’s install that particular business expertise into the charity. It might be a church, a synagogue, a membership organization, or a community foundation, but it’s some sort of philanthropic work that we’re doing. Before we get into the subject matter, which I’m going to hold off in giving people a title, tell people a little bit about Mark Smith and why you are able to talk about this topic today.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> I help people sell complex, expensive, high-consideration things as fast as humanly possible. I am an electrical engineer; therefore, I am a systems thinker. I have recovered. I don’t sell or do engineering very much, but I do help people sell complex things. That is where you have multiple people involved in making the decision. Each person has a different view of what creates value and what we need to do. Sounds an awful lot like this nation, doesn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yeah.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> How do you round up consensus? How do you have people go the same way? Just like when you’re working with nonprofits, herding cats is what we have to do. It’s the same thing when you have to sell expensive technology. What I’m doing here is applying all the things I have learned about selling very expensive things to the world of nonprofits. It’s absolutely identical. I, too, do work with a nonprofit. I am on a board here in Las Vegas where I live. I’ve been involved in nonprofits throughout my life. I understand, and I am delighted to share with you my business acumen. What I like to tell people is a nonprofit is not a business plan; it’s a tax status.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s not a philosophy, no. You’re very active on social media, especially Twitter. You put out little short memes with a few words on it. I gotta tell you, they are very thought-provoking. They help me focus on what’s important.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> I am honored that that happens. Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There has been this coincidence of you tweeting on the things we are actually talking about. Sometimes simultaneously. I find that to be fascinating.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> The issues are the same. Whether it’s nonprofits or the for-profit world, the issues we face are frankly identical.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I laugh when business leaders say, “That might work in the church.”</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Or the other side is that the religious leaders say, “That might work in business, but it won’t work in the church.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> If it’s true anywhere, it’s true everywhere.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> We’re humans working with humans.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I think we’ve stalled long enough in telling people what the topic is. What is the topic? Russell wants to know.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> All right, Russell. You’re ready? Today’s topic is how to get the most out of this year, which happens to be 2018. We are going to talk about five trends that are going on that you need to know about as the leader of your nonprofit to stay ahead of the game, to grow, and to prosper heading forward. Some of the things we are going to talk about are technology, and some of the things we are going to talk about are psychology.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Say that last sentence again. That caught me off guard.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Don’t you know I do that to you? And you do the same to me when you’re speaking. Some of the things we are going to talk about are technology, understanding the technology that nonprofits have to be embracing and keeping track of and staying up with. Some of it happens to be psychology, what is happening in the general zeitgeist of the world and how they impact nonprofits. Whether you think they do or not, they do. Your constituents, your members, your flock all are impacted by what they see in the news and what they experience with retail and what happens in the business world. They carry those attitudes and insights into your organization, whether you want them to or not. We have to manage that. We have to deal with it. We have to capitalize whenever possible or perhaps even neutralize it in some cases. That is what I mean by psychology.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. I think we’re guilty in any discipline. I know in the church, I have had people say to somebody, “You’re so heavily minded you’re no earthly good.” We all live in the reality of today. I can say that I served the church for 40 years and probably got to that space myself. I put in very carefully numbered bullet points. I noticed that I numbered them wrong. Our first one is, Omnichannel. Speak about that. Tell us what that means.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Listener, have you ever had the situation where you were multi-tasking, perhaps watching television and checking your telephone for messages or tweets, or maybe even reading the news story you are watching on TV simultaneously to see what if you were seeing on TV made sense to other news channels? That’s omnichannels, my friend.</p> <p>The reality is we are multi-screening. You are getting information from multiple locations at all times in all ways. What this means to nonprofits is you have to be able to bring your message, bring your service to your constituents in every way that they consume information. Just by a show of hands, who here has for your organization—I see ten fingers there, well, eight fingers and two thumbs. Sometimes I am just all thumbs. Do you have an app? Do you have the opportunity of having your constituents consume your services, your podcasts, your sermons via a dedicated app that would alert them when something new becomes available? Are you using the technology to your benefit? Now if you’re doing that, fantastic. Just stay with it.</p> <p>You have to understand we live in an omnichannel world. We are consuming many things in many different ways. Mobile apps, partner locations, maybe figuring out other locations for people to access your services. Where do your constituents go that you can have a kiosk or a corner or something like that where people can plug in, enjoy, take advantage of, be reminded of, contribute to, consume whatever it is you are bringing to the marketplace? Since I don’t know what your nonprofit is, we are spraying and hoping you will catch a couple of ideas here.</p> <p>The concept here is you need to be everywhere that your people are every time you possibly can be. The reality is if you are a church, people are carrying around a sermon in a box in their mobile device. Chunk things up into five-minute pieces to give them a chance to remind, refresh, and renew. If you are supplying educational elements, keep pushing out opportunities for people to learn and to refresh. If you’re supplying the opportunity for people to volunteer, if they are standing in line or waiting at a traffic light and they can pull out their mobile device and contribute something in some sort of thought-provoking way, let them do so. That is what we mean by omnichannel. Take advantage of that any way you possibly can.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You said something about five-minute segments. Remind, refresh, and renew. Talk more about that.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> What I am finding is short segments of content that provoke people. Just like when you read something from me on Twitter, you’re telling me that I am inspiring you, I am provoking some thoughts, I am causing you to think about new things, maybe connect some new dots. The bulk of those tweets are 140 characters. There are some that run a little bit longer thanks to Twitter’s new length limits, but it’s a very short little boom. It’s a little thought bomb that goes off in your brain.</p> <p>As a nonprofit, most of us are in business to inspire, to have people live a better life, to improve their condition, to stay on target, to stay on task, to stay on the straight and narrow. That requires constant reminders. Another thing to keep in mind is if you are a church or an organization where people come to see you once a week or once a month, it’s not enough. They are bombarded by all these other messages and all these other counter-messages that they may not wish to consume. Our job is to remind them there is another way of thinking. There is another opportunity. There is better potential for them that they have already volunteered to be a part of. If we can chunk our messages from a text standpoint, an audio standpoint, or a short video standpoint to refresh, renew, and remind themselves there is a reason why those of us who have a spiritual practice, it’s a daily practice if not hourly.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes. Oh yes. That is so important. I think the biggest flaw I see in organizations is when people say, “They should know better because we told them that,” but they told them that in 1903, and you have repeated it since then.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Here’s the problem, friends. You may have told them that, but the other side has told them their viewpoint a thousand times since the last time you said it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Omnichannel. When I first saw that, I thought it was a piece of software.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> It’s a concept.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell is taking good notes. Do you want to weigh in on this omnichannel touchpoint? Mark, what you’re doing is top of mind marketing, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Yes. Let’s just keep reminding them what they have asked us to remind them of.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell? He’s been very polite.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> He’s been quiet. He’s been smiling. He is giving me thumbs up. He is also muted.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Not anymore. We can quickly fix that. Greetings and salutations, Mark. Good to see you again. It’s been a while. I was just typing that when you’re out there in multiple places, where your people are, and that’s the important thing to figure out is where your people are and getting out there and getting in front of them. We are in a short attention span society. If you’re not out there online, you’re left behind. It’s not a fad. It’s not a trend. It’s here to stay.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I think it’s also in person. Where do your people hang out? I am hearing omnichannel as virtual as well as live.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Absolutely. Physical, too. It has to do with digital signage for example. Digital signage is omnichannel. Most of us have digital signage in our houses of worship. As I pointed out, as we talked about, where are they? Let’s see if we can put a digital sign in the places our people hang out to remind them of the messages they have agreed to consume.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great. We are sitting at the top of 2018. Our market has been growing. There are over 100 companies that announced employee dividends and financial expansion of programs since the tax bill passed at the end of 2017. There are all kinds of energy and economy. Talk about how that benefits the nonprofit sector.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> We are sitting at the highest consumer satisfaction index of all time. I think it’s for a number of reasons. One is that a lot of people are feeling good about themselves again. A lot of them have hope for the future. A lot of them feel that in spite of the noise we hear on the mainstream news on a regular basis, locally, the communities are doing well. More people have jobs. More people are feeling good about what’s possible. Certainly my business has been substantially increased. As you pointed out, yours has, too. A big part of it is that my customers are looking forward to growth and therefore investing in opportunities to grow.</p> <p>As a nonprofit, you can plug into this feeling of goodness and growth, asking for more than you could ask for in the past. Requesting more. Asking people to donate more for perhaps more time, for perhaps a higher level of investment of themselves into the organization. When people are feeling good, they say yes to opportunities because it doesn’t feel like it’s so heavy. Doesn’t feel like it’s such a burden. When we feel depressed, it’s very hard for people to feel good about themselves.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What makes people say yes? I still have lots of-</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> What a great question! I’m so glad you asked it. What makes people say yes is because your request is in alignment with their personal identity.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Whoa. Whoa. Hey, Russ. What does that trigger with you?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s everything. Everything revolves around relationships now. People are starting to figure that out. It doesn’t matter what business you’re in. Now you have to build relationships. In the old days, you could just blurt out at people. There were very few places for them to get a message. They were fed by three big networks messages. Think about Henry Ford when he talked about the Model T. They can have any car they want as long as it’s black. Now people have choices. They have different avenues for expression, and they have short attention spans, so you have to resonate with people because they will look for another cause if they feel like they’re not being romanced, so to say. You have to keep that connection some type of way, keep thanking them, showing the impact they are making, and staying with it. People change. There are so many different causes that they can get involved with now. It’s like anything else to maintain that brand loyalty as it were. You have to connect with your tribe. People want a sense of connection and a sense of accomplishment. Younger people coming into the work force want to do work that matters.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Mark, I pinged Russell because many times in the interviews, he helps us remember that whether you are creating board members or talking to donors, we have to think about what it is they want, what they are interested in, what they want to achieve. There is a messaging piece that I was honing in on here. How do we form our message so that we do connect with that like-minded person?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Let’s get back to the concept of personal identity. People buy things to support their identity or they buy things or engage in things to help them transform their identity into a new place that they desire to be. It’s a really important concept because all sales, all marketing, all recruiting, all conversion happens when a person sees their identity as that which you are offering as a nonprofit. That transformation for a lot of people is where we’re heading. As people grow, they transform. As young people go from high school to college, they are transforming. As they go from college into the workforce, they are transforming. That personal identity, how you view yourself and how you want to be viewed by—Russell, you said it right on—tribe, we choose our tribe, and the choices that we make determine our tribe. In a model I generated, those tribe decisions are mission-critical. The reason why is because if you make the wrong choices, the people who you might like may just stop calling you back. They may quit inviting you out. They might leave you on your own. That is where that personal identity comes into play. Identity happens way more than people realize. A great example of that is sports. Russell, do you consider yourself a sports fan?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I love it.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Do you have a team?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Believe it or not, I root for the Cleveland Browns.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Why the hell would an intelligent man like you root for such a losing team when a logical person would pick a winning team to root for?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I grew up there.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> That’s it. Yes!</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I haven’t lived there in almost 40 years, but home is home.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> It’s part of your core identity. It is so deeply ingrained in your core identity that I couldn’t get you to wear a piece of the opposing team’s clothing even if I paid you. That’s the power of identity. When you as a nonprofit can tap into that identity, that is where you really get that brand experience where people refuse to go anywhere else. But you have to keep reinforcing that identity. You have to make sure that the identity you’re offering continues to shift in the proper direction over time. In a growing economy, people have the opportunity of transforming that identity. That is really where we’re going with this #2 point. It gives you a chance to perhaps recruit people, to bring people in that you haven’t been able to before because they couldn’t afford it, they didn’t have the bandwidth or the money. Now they do. Get very clear. A definitive passionate, audience that wants to be recognized or grow their identity can help you as an organization grow. Get really clear. Get really sharp about this. It will have a massive impact for you in 2018. Cool?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. You talked about unemployment. The numbers show the unemployment figures at the end of 2017 were the lowest they’ve been in forever. But there are still people who are underemployed. They are not unemployed.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> In fact, those underemployed people are the ones who are perfect for volunteers. The reason why is as humans, we like to feel we are making a difference. Russell, you pointed that out in your last comments. We really want to feel we are doing good, like we are making a difference. When we are underemployed, we don’t have that feeling that we are living up to our potential. People in that environment can be invited to fulfill that in a nonprofit volunteer situation. Whether it’s an executive who has moved to a lower position, who needs to give back and still provide that strategic input, that is the perfect person to capture for example. Or perhaps the stay at home mom who went back to work because her kids are out of the house, and as she enters back in, she doesn’t go back in at the top level where she started. She comes in at a lower level, and she needs to fill that gap of feeling good about herself until she can be promoted up to that new level. That is the opportunity that you as a nonprofit can fill.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You spoke earlier about working with a local nonprofit in Las Vegas where you live. Why did you say yes to that?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> For two reasons. One is that I have an expertise that the association can use. I can benefit the association in quite a few different ways because of my deep history in business and as a professional. And that association also allows me, it feeds me in that I get to be with other people whose future is my history. And so I get a chance to give back because if I rewind my life back 30 years, I was the person who is being served by the mentor who I get to be today.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> So your input is important to shaping the future of their work.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> And they have a desire to have a similar experience that I had. When we are looking for a mentor—this is probably one of the best pieces of advice I’ve had in my life—look for somebody whose history is your future. They can help you plot the path. While your paths will be slightly different, the fundamentals won’t be that far off.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, did you capture that last comment?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I did not. I was in the process of typing that. I don’t type very quickly. This is interesting because what we are talking about, there are three things that a nonprofit needs: time, talent, and treasure. We get obsessed with the money and forget about time and talent. Especially with people who are underemployed, people have different motivations for joining you. When you are clear about what it is you are trying to do and you have inventoried all of your assets, which include time, talent, skills, knowledge, abilities, those are all assets to the nonprofit. When you can leverage that and get other people, it’s like money in the bank because you go out, build relationships, get sponsors for media, cash sponsors, you go out and get people to contribute pro bono services, you bring students in, you bring professional firms. There is a number of different ways to approach getting pro bono talent. When you are clear on who you are and what you need, you can offer these folks some time. Maybe they need to build their portfolio. Maybe they are tried and just want to give back. Maybe they are entering the workforce. Maybe they are underemployed and want to have some projects and creations of their own. You can set that table. When you are clear on what it is that people want, then they will come support you and always keep evaluating, putting challenges out there for them to stretch and grow and invest in their learning. They have reasons to stick with you in that case.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Right on. I think if you get the time and talent right, the treasure follows automatically. The reason why is what is money? It is a reward for doing what others want. It’s canned labor. That’s another way of looking at it.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Canned labor, but meaningful labor. It’s not standing at a copy machine all day or making coffee. It’s actually creating things. Building your social media strategy, writing policies, it’s endless the number of things you can find volunteers to do that they can help support the organization with. Yes, even fundraising. The sky’s the limit. It’s up to your own creativity and finding out what moves people. If you don’t have any money, you probably have time and talent.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> They probably know people. There is also ways of converting some of that talent and some of that time into treasure. If you think about it, that’s what a business does. It converts time and talent into treasure. As a nonprofit, you can do exactly the same thing. Your tax status permits that to happen.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Money is also reward for providing value.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Another way to keep score.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> That’s universally agreed upon.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Back to where we were talking at the beginning of this interview about installing sound business principles into the charity. I am using charity purposefully here. Sometimes we use the word “nonprofit,” which spins us into this scarcity thinking that we can’t generate a profit. But the profit is what pays for the philanthropic work of the organization. Like you said, it’s not a business plan. It’s not a philosophy. It’s a tax classification. It’s really tax exempt work. We are getting a lot of useful content today about leveraging what is around us instead of getting stuck in our hole, our silo. You ready to move to the next one?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Let’s do it. I think we have beaten that topic up a little bit. I like it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> #3 is New Leadership Demands. What is changing, and how do we stay out front? I remember years ago people were hiring the motivational speaker. Give me rah, rah. Then people left the room, and it was over. People aren’t hiring motivational speakers. They are hiring people with solid, executable content. What has changed in the leadership segment? What are you thinking about?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> What I see is the informational speaker and the inspirational speaker versus motivational speaker. Let’s talk about that, and then we will go on to the topic of what’s changing with leadership. The difference between a motivational speaker and an inspirational speaker is very simple. If we go back to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, which I see as a fundamental to everything we do, both within the charitable sector as well as the business sector, those two lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy is physical needs and then security. Within those two levels, you can motivate people. It’s basically a pain-based motivation. Once we get to that next level, where you have love and self-esteem and move up to self-actualization, that is where inspiration comes into play. If people are in pain, you have to motivate them. If people are out of pain, then you can inspire them. Don’t try to be inspirational when people are hungry and tired and scared. That doesn’t work. It’s just frustrating. They will nod their heads and do what they need to do to get the hell out of your view so they can go get some food or drink or get warm or whatever. We have to help people to the third level of Maslow because we can start to inspire them.</p> <p>With that in mind, from a leadership standpoint, understanding your leadership is 100% contextual on the state of the person and ultimately the team you are working with. That is not a blinding flash of the obvious to most of you, but we have to be reminded of that because a lot of the traditional leadership mantras that we hear are being offered from the top of Maslow’s hierarchy. But a lot of the people we are leading are way down the hierarchy, and we have to remember that sometimes it’s just giving them a shoulder to cry on and taking them out to lunch or buying them a cup of coffee. Sometimes that’s all the leadership they need in that moment.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. That’s a paradigm shift. What are you thinking there, Russ? You’re smiling.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The thought came to mind that great leaders always have a pulse on where their people are because no two people are in the same place. Cookie cutter leadership doesn’t work. It may have worked back at the turn of the 20th century.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> It didn’t work then either, Russell. I hate to tell you, pal. It was just misreported.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> They pushed it as, “Get in line or go work somewhere else.” That doesn’t work. Good leaders build other leaders around them because that is what makes a great leader look good. We have people who can execute or delegate, and she is doing high level functions. Sometimes you have high performance individuals, and it is really hard- When they have been driving the train for a long time, it’s really difficult for them to take a step back because they have their vision and it’s their baby. They have a hard time taking a step back. This is a way that leaders have to grow in. If people in the work force today aren’t getting work that means something. They move on. Do yourself a favor and let other people help you.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> I think some of the things we have to take a look at from a change standpoint is that our millennial culture, I raised five millennial children. None of them live at home. I consider myself to be a success. They don’t put up with ultimatums. They’ll just raise their middle finger and wave you goodbye. The reality is that leadership is now voluntary. It was always voluntary, but it is now absolutely voluntary. People accept leadership voluntarily, and a charitable organization has always been voluntary. We have to become a whole lot more about what it is you are looking for. How can I help you grow? Where do you want to go? What do you need to help you get there? Can we help you get there? It’s a lot more of the let’s figure out where our tribe needs to go and bring that to them. I think that’s a big component of that. We raised our children to question authority. The boomer generation just shakes their head at, “I am a boomer.” Friends, I raise that generation. I raised them to be what I wanted to be when I was their age, which was to have the freedom to ask questions and to push back and to say, “That’s really stupid. Why do you make that?” When I was a kid, that earned a slap across the face, so I learned to shut up very quickly. I let my kids ask those questions. They were hard questions. They made me a better man.</p> <p>That also means that military-style, authoritarian leadership will no longer work. It has to be collaborative leadership. But how do we do collaborative leadership? It’s simple. You just ask people. You ultimately, as the leader of your organization, get to make the decision. But you also have to have that collaboration of how we arrive at the destination. You are responsible for the destination. Then we collaborate on how we get there. That is what I see as being a major shift.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is especially true in nonprofits because we do attract some capable people. We think we have to do it as a leader because we don’t want to bother them because they are volunteers and are busy in their real life.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> But wait a minute. That’s why they showed up.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You got it. I set that one up good. You are really interfering with what somebody has come to do. That seems like a logical step. That is a huge problem. Bowen leadership systems, Murray Bowen as a psychiatrist created this whole leadership methodology. He talks about that as overfunctioning, and the reciprocity to overfunctioning is underfunctioning. Especially when you have a boomer, me, and you are talking to millennials, like the editor of our magazine, Todd, he says, “Tell me where you want to be, and let me get there.” Nobody likes being told the steps or micromanaged. Millennials like it the least of any particular segment. You raised five millennials, and I don’t see any wounds on your body.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> I’m a much better man. Before I raised my five millennial kids, I was a jerk.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Really?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Yeah. I knew everything. I knew exactly how to do it, and I could prove it. If you didn’t believe me, I’d write a book about it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I just sense that pleasure. Here’s the thing, Mark. They’ll be back. They will bring more with them.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> It gets better and better and more disruptive and more delicious.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a story of this conductor, who are known to have healthy egos. This conductor walks into a restaurant with a whole bunch of musicians. One person stood up on one side and said, “All conductors are jerks.” Whoa, it got back like this. On the other side, somebody stood up and said, “I resent that comment.” The conductor looked at him and said, “Hey, are you a conductor, too?” He says, “No, I’m a jerk.” I love it. That is a reframed lawyer joke.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> The way I like to talk about conductors is conductors are highly skilled. They can play every instrument in the orchestra. They can. But not well enough to make a living. At the end of the show-</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> [hard to hear] tickets on the train, either.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The model you are talking about is the conductor doesn’t tell them step by step what they do. The conductor says to the oboe player, the violinist, whatever, “This is the effect I want. This is the result I want.” They guide the process.</p> <p>I wanted to segue into that as a model for what you’re talking about. That has been a consistent model over the decades. If we look at that in today’s world, leadership as a profound influence and not the micro that you are talking about, do this, do this, do this. It’s a nuance of engaging people and empowering people to raise the bar. That is the essence of transformational leadership really: building a culture of high performers that respond to you.</p> <p>So we are looking at what has changed, but also we are looking at- Earlier, you talked about transformation. There is a transformation in ourselves before we can be effective. How does that link with what you’re talking about?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Everybody that I know is going through some form of transformation. They are trying to add a new skill. They are trying to let go of an old habit they see as not serving their life any further. They may be going through a spiritual revolution where they are going from less spiritual to more spiritual. It may be that they are looking for a physical transformation, losing weight, adding muscle, adding health. Those transformations always trigger help because if we could do it on our own, we already would have. We need either skills or encouragement or motivation or a tribe to travel with.</p> <p>Let’s talk about transformation for just a minute. Let’s have some fun with this. I know that we bumped into this idea with me before, Hugh, and let’s talk about it. I think we have enough time. It’s fairly simple. There is fundamentally a seven-step process in transformation, plus a step zero and a step minus one.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Ooh, do tell.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> The first half is about belief. The second half is about knowledge. The difference between belief and knowledge is a manifestation in the physical world. Step minus one is where they want to go. The transformation they want to enjoy is invisible. They can’t even see it. It’s not even within their awareness. It’s not even possible. They hadn’t even thought of it. If you as a charitable organization want to find new people, part of your job is to message the outcome that you deliver so that we can take people who don’t even see that as an opportunity into something that is within their awareness.</p> <p>Then step zero, going from invisible to impossible. That is the step zero. “Oh, that’s impossible. I could never do that. I don’t see how that’s possible.” That’s step zero.</p> <p>The transformation starts when they go from the impossible to, “Hmm, that could be possible. You have 1,000 people in this community that has made this transformation? Wow. You’ve helped that many people? It is possible.”</p> <p>Then the next step is to probable. “I could probably do this. I don’t have all the answers. I may not know my path yet, but this is probable. I could do this.”</p> <p>Then the third step moves to inevitable. “This is going to happen. Oh yeah. Let’s make this happen. Yeah.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Minus one is where-</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Minus one is invisible. Don’t even know it is possible.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Invisible, okay.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Step zero is impossible.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Okay. One is possible.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Possible.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Two is probable.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Two is probable.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And three is?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Inevitable.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Inevitable.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> This is going to happen! I know how to do this. Whoo-hoo. Help me!</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell is scribing these. He is capturing the brilliance.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> That is all based on increasing belief because the transformation has not yet become physical. It is still nonphysical. It is thought and that is about it. Now we cross over from the nonphysical to the physical, from the belief to the real. Step four is real. We go from inevitable to real.</p> <p>From real to sustainable. I did it! Okay, let’s do it again. I can do this any time I want. That is sustainable.</p> <p>Then we go from sustainable, step five, to step six, which is normal. “I do this all the time. Sure, of course. This is just part of my life.”</p> <p>To step seven, which is historical. “I have always done it this way.”</p> <p>If we are working people through a transformational process—invisible, impossible, possible, probable, inevitable, real, sustainable, normal, historical—if we can run people through that process, we can help them through their transformation.</p> <p>But here is the most important aspect. You can’t take somebody from impossible to inevitable in one step. That is the psychology of leadership. We have to help them move from impossible to probable. We have to help them move from probable to inevitable. We have to help them move from inevitable to real. Each one of those is a step, as we are crossing this chasm, let’s call it a river, from impossible to historical, going from one side to the other. Every step is a slippery rock that as they reach out with their foot, it may feel like, “I don’t know if I can do this.” Our job as leaders is to hold their finger, hold their hand.</p> <p>When I was raising my kids, we would do- Kids were going across the rocks, and I would give them a finger. All they had to do was hang onto my finger. That was enough to give them the confidence to take the step. My kids would grab that finger, and we could move them. You did this, right? Russell, you’ve done this with your kids? Just give them a little bit. We don’t need to hold them in an airman’s grip. We just have to give them a finger to hang onto.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> If you don’t want to carry them, you just give them that finger. It’s just enough. Less is more.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> That’s right.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> More, and they step into that power. That’s what it’s about. Whatever the mind can conceive and make itself believe, it can achieve. That is a process.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> You just summarized those seven plus two steps in three words.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you, Mr. Hill.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Yes indeed.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is a profound statement. I was really small, walking with my father, and I would hold a finger. One day, he put a stick there. I kept going because I thought I had his hand. All I had was a stick. When I grew up, I repeated that dirty trick with my kids.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Interesting. That brings a story to mind. I don’t know how old I was. I may have been two or three. My mother used to carry me upstairs at night. One night, my mother and sister brought me upstairs, stood me in front of the crib, and said, “Okay. Climb in.” I was baffled. I didn’t do anything. So they said, “Okay, well, you will climb in or you will stand there all night.” I don’t know how long I stood there. It turns out they were there watching. It wasn’t very long. I climbed up in that crib. Oh, okay, I got to do this or it’s not going to happen. I never forgot that. I don’t remember much that happened before five. As five gets further away, it’s harder to remember. But that was something I never forgot. A lot of life is like that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a great story. That’s a big leadership example.</p> <p>The last one of your five topics for the year is Turning Unrest into Peace: How to Divorce Your Organization from the Media’s Promotion of Outrage. What ever are you talking about?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> I’ll be delighted to share with you. With the broad spread availability of Internet and mobile devices, the media got out of the news business. The reason why is the news was available any time I chose to pick up my mobile device and read the news from dozens of news sources. The fundamental TV news made a wholesale pivot from news to opinion and entertainment. You watch any of the mainstream news, and they are not delivering news. They are delivering opinion, not even fact. Opinion. It’s the mot hilarious thing. I watch the news now and laugh. I just see it like reality TV. It is completely scripted. Whatever side they are trying to spin, that is what it is. What is truth? I have no idea anymore. The challenge is to get people to watch opinion, you have to generate outreach. You have to go to them and say, “Isn’t this awful? Isn’t this unfair? This is just horrible. I can’t see how we can even stand doing this anymore.” That outrage allows you to sit through the commercials for pharmaceutical products that help you fix the outrage. You laugh because it’s true.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Okay. I’m going to give up on MSNBC and Fox Noise because-</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> It is noise. I can watch Hannity once a week. It’s the same story every night.</p> <p>Here’s the thing. First of all, you have to realize that the news business is really to do one thing. It’s not to inform you. It’s to sell advertising. Pure and simple. Their job is to create a community that wants to be outraged a specific way and to promote that outrage so people feel like something is going on. They feel like something is important, but the reality my friends, in the world of charitable organizations, we are offering another way of thinking, another way of feeling. We are offering perhaps a better feeling. I feel way better after going to church than I do after watching the evening news. That circles back to our #1 point today, which is omnichannel. We have to keep providing our message on a regular basis daily, hourly, morning, evening to counter all of the outrage that people are being fed from a commercial stream. Go ahead. Carry on. What do you have in mind there, Hugh?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. Wow. Where people are getting into an emotional state, not a factual thinking leadership functioning state. We are going into this-</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Facts don’t matter anymore when it comes to mainstream news.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are in a post-truth culture.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> We are. It’s really interesting.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When we hear comments like “The media lies,” I watched purposefully for several weeks reports on CNN, CBN, PBS, and FOX. They were all different.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Which one is lying? Or are they all lying?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> None of them are lying. They are presenting their vision of what they want you to believe. Facts have nothing to do with anything. They believe It’s true. They look you square in the eye through the camera and make you believe they believe it. And they do. Otherwise they couldn’t deliver that.</p> <p>Let’s circle back to the facts that matter to us and to constituents of our organization. That is what we need to focus on.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have eight minutes. We are wrapping up here. That is a perfect segue, thank you. Go ahead.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> The whole point is we need to make sure our message and our leadership and our direction and our transformation is absolutely clear. We have to supply at last some rational thinking. When people say, “Did you hear what the news was?” and the answer is, “Do you believe it?” Let’s focus on something you can believe. So help pivot people away from buying into something that we keep illustrating over and over again is patently not in alignment with the belief and the worldview that we wish. We have to substitute the worldview that our tribe wishes to see.</p> <p>Personally, I see humanity as growing, expanding, being bigger-hearted than ever before. The people in my environment, the people I bump into, including the folks on the street that ask me for help, are doing better than ever before. My job is to elevate, not to outrage. I think that there are way more people that have that desire than ever before, and perhaps that is why Cartoon Network has a higher rating than CNN. It’s because we want to feel good. We don’t want to feel bad. As a charitable organization, bringing that good news to people and giving them things they can do to feel better about themselves and to improve humanity and their tribe is probably the ultimate thing we can bring to our constituents.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> To piggyback on what you are saying, out of my own experience, I was an advertising salesman for WGAM TV while I was in college. Our most expensive segment was the news slots. That supports that, and that has been the case for quite some time now. That was a few years ago.</p> <p>The other thing is people are looking to raise their level of consciousness. The media likes to exacerbate this idea of taking sides. One thing that happened to me as a result of my experience working with the Native American tribe is I became nonpartisan here. The people who were going to help you may be on other sides of the aisle. I was literally more interested in what was going to benefit my tribe than what fit their politics. What we are talking about really is raising our level of consciousness. Me, for the most part, I am tuned out on those things. I can’t watch that stuff. If I do happen to catch glimpses of it, nobody lives out in the middle of nowhere. There are a few people off the grid, but you will be exposed to some of the noise. Does that noise matter? We are trying to raise our level of consciousness, and there are people who need our help. When that is the driving thing, you learn how to play nice with others, but you don’t always have to agree on everything, except who is it you want to help and how can you get there. You leave all of the ego and crap on the doorstep and come together to perform missions. I’m glad you haven’t said anything that made me so angry I have to go put a nasty tweet out. I have a Twitter account, and I don’t want to use it.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Personally, I have a positive posting policy. If I can’t say something nice, I write them a letter and burn it.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> As long as you don’t mail it. That could get you in a lot of trouble.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> If you are writing a letter to somebody or emailing, don’t ever put their address in there as you write it. Otherwise you might by accident send it. Guilty as charged.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s good to write letters every once in a while. Us old guys write letters. You can write letters. Younger folks out there, it’s a dying art. It’s fun.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> It’s great fun. I wrote myself a letter on New Year’s Eve. It’s part of our ritual: to write ourselves letters.</p> <p>Just to wrap up this segment, an important component is what is your core principle as a leader? Focus on activities that will provide you and your tribe with those core principles. My core principle is freedom. Everything I do needs to lead me to freedom. Freedom of thought, freedom of action, freedom of life. From that freedom, I can serve people. I can’t serve people when I am not free, from a thought standpoint, a physical standpoint, a monetary standpoint. I use that personally as my filter. If I am going to do something, say something, act in some way, the question is: Does this bring me closer to more freedom, or does this take freedom away from me? It could be anything else. It could be oneness. It could be joy. It could be love. It doesn’t really matter. All of them boil down to the same situation anyway. Just that word resonates with me. I think ultimately that is what we need to do to bring peace to our tribe.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Our strategy is Russell and I encourage people to be very clear on their vision while they are doing something. As charities, we have to be very good at defining the impact of our work. What difference will it make? We achieve all of that through setting powerful goals. You have given us a whole lot of ideas for goals. Russell mentioned him before, and he is looking behind you there. Behind you is Henry Ford.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Actually that is Edison. Carry on.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> They lived next door to each other down in Fort Myers.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> They did.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Edison said he never failed; he just found 9,999 things that didn’t work before he invented the light bulb. Ford said obstacles are what you see when you take your mind off your goals. They are both dedicated to excellence. They were both in tune with the culture and trends of their day.</p> <p>Mark Smith, I don’t know a lot of people with two middle initials. Mark S. A. Smith. You stand out from all those other Mark Smiths.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> That is the reason why. That way you can find me on Google.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> They are impostors.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> No, they are not impostors. They are just hiding.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is really rich in content. Russell, do you have a closing comment you want to leave here?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There we are. I’d like to thank Mark for the thoughts he dropped. You are preaching to the choir. It’s about who you are. That’s a message that has to ring true. Who are you? Who are you, and that way you can connect with the people that you are aligned with. I love the alignment. Great comments. Notes in the SynerVision Leadership webinar notebook. I have the notes, Hugh. It will also be out there for folks to look at. It’s a great day here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Super. Mark, thank you for being here and sharing your wisdom with us.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Delightful to be here. Thank you for the invitation to do so. We have plenty more in 2018.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>The SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium</title>
      <description>NPE SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium
Hugh Ballou: Hey, it’s Hugh Ballou. This is the Nonprofit Exchange. We have a special episode today. I have some friends on here, and maybe some more who will come during the time. We are talking about the SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium. We have done them all over the country, and I have some friends here who have attended and who have been presenters. I wanted to get some first-hand testimonies about what they have experienced and what we are going to experience. Let me introduce the panelists today. First, my co-host Russell Dennis. Welcome, Russell.
Russell Dennis: It’s December 19th, and we are rolling closer to the big day. It’s been a very good year.
Hugh: It’s been a very good year for you.
Russell: Yeah. It’s been a good year in a lot of ways. I have had some challenges. But when you focus on the good, you don’t give into the challenges.
Hugh: You’re an inspiration. I should call you every day to get inspiration. You always have good inspiration. One of your neighbors and our mutual friends is Flo Lattery. She is also in Denver, Colorado, the Mile High City. Flo, welcome.
Flo Lattery: Thank you, Hugh. Good to be here.
Hugh: Down in Clearwater, Florida, we have the one and only David Dunworth. Marketing Partners is your company.
David Dunworth: That’s correct. Marketing Partners. Glad to be here with all of you and all of our viewers. Looking forward to a great interview session today.
Hugh: Super. We are going to talk about the SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium. First, we don’t give dates on the podcast. We’ll send people to the page, and you can find the dates because people might be listening to this podcast a year from now. We do 12 a year, 12 of these one-day events somewhere in the country, everywhere from southern California to New York City to Chicago to Florida. I have done two in Melbourne and two in Vero. Those are repeat locations for us. David, we might want to consider the other coast, St. Pete, Clearwater, Tampa, somewhere on that side.
David: I think it would be valuable to spread our wings across the state because there are a lot of people I think might be able to use our message.
Hugh: Absolutely. We are uppin’ the format of it. I have upped the game as I have gone through the process for the last 18 months to two years. There is a handout/workbook that you are all familiar with. In the workbook, I have started out with what I have learned in 31 years of doing this. When I have had David be a presenter and Russell twice, I have learned there are other people who have had really good content. I have had some good presenters in Winston-Salem and Vero and Melbourne. I also had Shannon Gronich; she couldn’t be here as she is on another live event right now with the Chamber down in Palm Bay. We are going to have more presenters.
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      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2018 06:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
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      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
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      <itunes:summary>NPE SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium
Hugh Ballou: Hey, it’s Hugh Ballou. This is the Nonprofit Exchange. We have a special episode today. I have some friends on here, and maybe some more who will come during the time. We are talking about the SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium. We have done them all over the country, and I have some friends here who have attended and who have been presenters. I wanted to get some first-hand testimonies about what they have experienced and what we are going to experience. Let me introduce the panelists today. First, my co-host Russell Dennis. Welcome, Russell.
Russell Dennis: It’s December 19th, and we are rolling closer to the big day. It’s been a very good year.
Hugh: It’s been a very good year for you.
Russell: Yeah. It’s been a good year in a lot of ways. I have had some challenges. But when you focus on the good, you don’t give into the challenges.
Hugh: You’re an inspiration. I should call you every day to get inspiration. You always have good inspiration. One of your neighbors and our mutual friends is Flo Lattery. She is also in Denver, Colorado, the Mile High City. Flo, welcome.
Flo Lattery: Thank you, Hugh. Good to be here.
Hugh: Down in Clearwater, Florida, we have the one and only David Dunworth. Marketing Partners is your company.
David Dunworth: That’s correct. Marketing Partners. Glad to be here with all of you and all of our viewers. Looking forward to a great interview session today.
Hugh: Super. We are going to talk about the SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium. First, we don’t give dates on the podcast. We’ll send people to the page, and you can find the dates because people might be listening to this podcast a year from now. We do 12 a year, 12 of these one-day events somewhere in the country, everywhere from southern California to New York City to Chicago to Florida. I have done two in Melbourne and two in Vero. Those are repeat locations for us. David, we might want to consider the other coast, St. Pete, Clearwater, Tampa, somewhere on that side.
David: I think it would be valuable to spread our wings across the state because there are a lot of people I think might be able to use our message.
Hugh: Absolutely. We are uppin’ the format of it. I have upped the game as I have gone through the process for the last 18 months to two years. There is a handout/workbook that you are all familiar with. In the workbook, I have started out with what I have learned in 31 years of doing this. When I have had David be a presenter and Russell twice, I have learned there are other people who have had really good content. I have had some good presenters in Winston-Salem and Vero and Melbourne. I also had Shannon Gronich; she couldn’t be here as she is on another live event right now with the Chamber down in Palm Bay. We are going to have more presenters.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>NPE SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium</strong></p><p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Hey, it’s Hugh Ballou. This is the Nonprofit Exchange. We have a special episode today. I have some friends on here, and maybe some more who will come during the time. We are talking about the SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium. We have done them all over the country, and I have some friends here who have attended and who have been presenters. I wanted to get some first-hand testimonies about what they have experienced and what we are going to experience. Let me introduce the panelists today. First, my co-host Russell Dennis. Welcome, Russell.</p><p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> It’s December 19th, and we are rolling closer to the big day. It’s been a very good year.</p><p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s been a very good year for you.</p><p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yeah. It’s been a good year in a lot of ways. I have had some challenges. But when you focus on the good, you don’t give into the challenges.</p><p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re an inspiration. I should call you every day to get inspiration. You always have good inspiration. One of your neighbors and our mutual friends is Flo Lattery. She is also in Denver, Colorado, the Mile High City. Flo, welcome.</p><p><strong>Flo Lattery:</strong> Thank you, Hugh. Good to be here.</p><p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Down in Clearwater, Florida, we have the one and only David Dunworth. Marketing Partners is your company.</p><p><strong>David Dunworth:</strong> That’s correct. Marketing Partners. Glad to be here with all of you and all of our viewers. Looking forward to a great interview session today.</p><p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Super. We are going to talk about the SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium. First, we don’t give dates on the podcast. We’ll send people to the page, and you can find the dates because people might be listening to this podcast a year from now. We do 12 a year, 12 of these one-day events somewhere in the country, everywhere from southern California to New York City to Chicago to Florida. I have done two in Melbourne and two in Vero. Those are repeat locations for us. David, we might want to consider the other coast, St. Pete, Clearwater, Tampa, somewhere on that side.</p><p><strong>David:</strong> I think it would be valuable to spread our wings across the state because there are a lot of people I think might be able to use our message.</p><p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. We are uppin’ the format of it. I have upped the game as I have gone through the process for the last 18 months to two years. There is a handout/workbook that you are all familiar with. In the workbook, I have started out with what I have learned in 31 years of doing this. When I have had David be a presenter and Russell twice, I have learned there are other people who have had really good content. I have had some good presenters in Winston-Salem and Vero and Melbourne. I also had Shannon Gronich; she couldn’t be here as she is on another live event right now with the Chamber down in Palm Bay. We are going to have more presenters.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Nonprofits That Work: 15-40 Connection</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofits-that-work-15-40-connection</link>
      <description>15-40 Connection is focused on educating and empowering people about early cancer detection. This education helps individuals become aware of the early warning signs of cancer. Most cancer organizations focus on research for a cure, treatment or support. There are also many cancer organizations that focus on prevention. Unfortunately, we still don’t know what causes all cancers, so while some preventative measures can reduce risk; it can’t remove the risk completely. Research shows that detecting cancer early improves effectiveness of cancer treatment and also improves the chance of survival, which is why 15-40 Connection is empowering individuals to be aware of the early warning signs to give them their best chance at effective treatment and survival.
 15-40 Connection aims to educate and empower individuals with the skills to recognize subtle health changes in themselves, rather than rely only on medical professionals. Through 15-40 Connection’s 3 Steps to Early Detection individuals learn how to become active participants in their own health care so cancer as well as other illnesses can be diagnosed earlier. The result is a quicker return to health and most importantly lives saved.
 For more information: https://www.15-40.org 
 As Vice President for Engagement for 15-40 Connection, Kelly Fattman supports educational outreach and national communication that teaches people how to detect cancer earlier. She is passionate about saving lives through the power of early detection. While working in this role, she experienced health changes herself that lead to a brain tumor diagnosis. Kelly put into practice the exact education she was delivering to change the outcome of her situation.
 Using 15-40 Connection’s 3 Steps Detect, Kelly became one of the most valuable members of her health care team. After describing how her health changes felt, she was told by two doctors. “That doesn’t make sense.” Her health changes were different from what they had seen most often. As they put the piece of the puzzle together to determine her diagnosis, Kelly continued to trust how she was feeling and shared that information. It was because of one of her symptoms that were not making sense that her doctor ordered additional tests which revealed her brain tumor. Had Kelly not shared that information, her diagnosis would have been delayed, the brain tumor would have continued to grow, her treatment options would have been more limited, and the chances of lasting side effects would have risen significantly.
 Prior to her role at 15-40 Connection, Kelly, helped companies large and small launch products, reach new audiences and improve customer engagement. Some of the major brands she has worked with include Reebok, Dunkin Donuts, American Express, New Balance, and the Boston Marathon.
 Here's the Transcript of the Interview
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. And yet another interesting guest, Russell. What do you think of that?
 Russell Dennis: Good-looking and interesting and smart. Dedicated. Those are the kind of people that show up here. I like it.
 Hugh: We attract really brilliant people who have good stories. Kelly, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Kelly Fattman: Thank you for having me.
 Hugh: We had a struggle with technology, but we conquered it. Here we are. Let’s start out. I don’t like these dry introductions of people. I like people to tell me a little bit about themselves. What about you is important to the work you do? Then talk about this organization, 15-40 Connection.
 Kelly: It’s interesting because I have a background in marketing and development. I have spent the last part of my career, probably the last ten years, in strategy, development, and activation, specifically around customer engagement. When I came to 15-40, my role was to really help to drive engagement and scale because we really needed to scale our message. We knew it was life-saving education, and we needed to get to as many people as possible.
 What is unique in my story is I was working as a consultant, and then I had a health change. Part of our education is about noticing changes in your health and acting on them. I did that. I call it my orientation to the business. I was in real time in my life testing our education. Does it work? My health change was significant. I did see a doctor. I had some challenges with getting a diagnosis, but I pushed. I became the empowered patient, which is something that we talk about, and got to an accurate diagnosis, which really changed my life. That makes me not just a business professional, but also a consumer. That combination has been very successful as we enter the drive of this mission and our need to scale it and our ability to scale it.
 Hugh: Kelly Fattman, y’all aren’t from the South, I can tell. Where are y’all from?
 Kelly: I am actually born and raised right outside of Boston, Massachusetts, but my parents are from Pennsylvania. I have a little bit of a mixed problem going on here.
 Hugh: Russell is over there in Denver. They got a really distinctive accent, which you can’t tell. The South is very distinctive, and in New England, it is of course really distinctive.
 Tell us a little bit about 15-40 Connection.
 Kelly: Our mission is we teach people how to detect cancer early. It’s that simple. There is a ton of companies. Once you are diagnosed with cancer, there is a bunch of resources to access for treatment, care, mental health, and research. When it comes to the path that leads to diagnosis, there is nobody who does what we do, which is unfortunately why we are doing it. The founder wasn’t necessarily looking for something else to do, but when he saw this opportunity and the gap that was available to people to maintain their health and survive cancer, he acted on it. Our education is teaching people how to recognize symptoms, act on those symptoms, and connect with their doctors to get an accurate early diagnosis.
 Hugh: Outstanding. On your site, there is a core educational message called Three Steps Detect.
 Kelly: Correct.
 Hugh: Say more about that.
 Kelly: The Three Steps Detect is our core education. It is really the entry point of what you learn when you’re learning about early detection. We broke it down into three simple steps. If you follow these three steps, it will lead to not only potential cancer diagnosis early, but really diagnose anything. We have heard from people this year that have diagnosed heart disease, kidney stones, things along those lines. We know that it’s not just cancer that can be detected early. It can be anything. We know that anything detected early gives you a better chance of survival, better health outcomes, getting back to your life quicker, back to health quicker.
 Hugh: It’s not just cancer?
 Kelly: We are focused on cancer, but the interesting byproduct of our education is it’s helping people find other things as well. But our primary focus is cancer.
 Hugh: Wow. So you started telling a story that you had a health change. It brought you- How did you connect with 15-40? Was it already in existence?
 Kelly: I was actually working here, and they were developing the curriculum Three Steps Detect. We had been doing education before I got here but knew that we needed to tighten it up, be clearer on the message, get something that was memorable and actionable. That is what I was working on. When I had the health change, I followed the three steps quite honestly.
 The biggest step we talk about is the part where the patient interacts with the doctor. Doctors, we call them detectives. They only can solve the case based on the clues that are provided to them. We are the people who provide the clues. I was providing my clues; however, the doctors basically outlined to me that what I was saying didn’t make sense, that my explanation of my symptoms couldn’t be what they are. I stayed true to my story because of what I learned here, and ultimately they ordered the right test and got to an accurate diagnosis. I had two diagnoses prior to the third, which was the accurate one.
 Hugh: Some of us listening that are paranoid. When I visit people in the hospital, I start hurting when they start talking about their operation. Can you give us an idea of those three steps?
 Kelly: Sure. First step is to know you’re normal, to know that you’re great. What’s good for you? When you wake up in the morning, how do you feel on a good day? We don’t have a checklist, but it’s setting benchmarks. What’s your normal sleep patterns? What is your normal energy level? What are your bowel habits? Those are the things you should be checking in with. How is your skin? Do you have a lot of moles or just a few? Are you watching your skin? If new things come in that weren’t there before. It’s knowing what your normal is so if something changes, you can recognize the change. That is step one.
 Step two is the two-week rule. Since you have set the base of your normal, when something changes, you’ll notice. Your stomach starts to act up. Maybe you’re going to the bathroom differently. You’re more tired than normal. Most things will clear up after two weeks. The flu, pneumonia, the common cold. There are lots of things that after two weeks solve themselves. If after two weeks you are still feeling these symptoms, we recommend you go check it out. It does not mean you have cancer. The two-week rule helps people not to be a hypochondriac, as you stated; it helps them to be calm because they say, “Okay. In two weeks a lot of things go away.” Two weeks gives them a reason to go check it out.
 The third step is the sharing with your doctor. That piece is the most critical in that it’s what I outlined earlier. What you say to your doctor is going to determine what they know about you. They don’t have X-ray vision. They can certainly order tests, but they don’t know which ones to order if you are not sharing the right information with them. Ultimately, that relationship is critical. In this time where health care is so challenging and so variable across the country, it is understanding all the different scenarios that people can enter. Some people have long-term relationships with primary care. Others use urgent care or medical clinics, so it’s a one-and-done environment. It’s making sure the patient is driving the conversation, and they are driving the outcome to early diagnosis because if we don’t drive, the doctors and the way the model is now built, they don’t have the infrastructure and support systems, most of them, to do the follow-up and the additional work. They also don’t know how you’re feeling, so you go to the doctor and leave and don’t follow back up with them, but you’re still not feeling well. How are they going to know?
 Those are really the three steps.
 Hugh: I guess it’s tricky. We all assume that the doctor knows everything. They tell you something, and it’s a tendency for us to want to shut down. What I hear you saying is that we learn to be assertive in talking about ourselves. Is that the context you’re talking in?
 Kelly: We say the best chance is you, the empowered patient. It’s all of those. It’s the strength of believing in yourself, trusting in your instincts, not being embarrassed. Some of the cultural norms. In the times we grew up, people didn’t question their doctor. I’m not sure people are being raised the same way now. I think now is the right time. You know you the best. It’s about a partnership with a doctor; it’s not about us versus them. It’s about creating a partnership between you and them.
 Hugh: That is a really helpful paradigm because- You called them a detective a minute ago. We have to give them the clues. They depend on us telling them. I have a very good doctor who listens very carefully and spends time and asks me very good questions. Sometimes those are questions about things I have never thought about, but you are helping me think about being prepared in case I wake up and it’s not normal. If you are not normal, you wait two weeks, and if it doesn’t go away, then you make an appointment. Is that what I heard you say?
 Kelly: That’s exactly right. We also say that if something changes significantly, like you break your leg or you have a really sharp pain or something along those lines, then you don’t wait two weeks. It’s making sure you understand the difference. Our teaching is about the subtle, persistent changes that hang around that wouldn’t necessarily impact your ability to go about your day. Those are the ones you wait two weeks and they usually clear up. Things that are more like the symptom I had was more significant. I had a sharp pain in my head that would come and go, but it was nothing I had ever felt before, very different from my normal and was more dramatic. It wasn’t subtle, I should say. I acted quicker than two weeks.
 Hugh: Why is 15-40 Connection a 501(c)3?
 Kelly: Essentially because a nonprofit is the best way to get to everybody. Our mission is to educate people on how to detect cancer early. The fact is it wasn’t being done before. Now that the issue is raised, you have to build the case to get the education out there. What we were able to do is build the case with funders and people who are interested in the nonprofit space to make a difference and save lives. That is how we landed as a nonprofit segment versus a for-profit who would be selling the education, which is not the motivation of the founder and the other people who work here.
 Hugh: It’s to make it accessible to more people.
 Kelly: Yes.
 Hugh: Russell, what are you hearing here? Do you have questions or observations?
 Russell: That is remarkable. I can think back to a health change that I had when I was working for the IRS. There was some signs. I did not act. In my case, I can speak for myself. I think fear was a factor. Does your education program go to address those things that people may have, these fears that going to the doctor could cause me to miss work or my insurance may not be adequate? Fear is unreasonable often. It doesn’t make any sense, yet it is there. Does your program address any of these fears that people may be experiencing or provide a space where people can discuss it?
 Kelly: Yes. Fear is the #1 issue. People say, I’m afraid to go. If I don’t go, it will go away. The reality is that that fear, where it’s unfounded is if you catch it early, great. That’s a win because you can take care of it. If you don’t have anything, that’s great, too. Both are celebration points. We do have a natural fear of what the doctor is going to say. We also on the flip side of that want the doctor to say you’re okay. Once the doctor says you’re fine, we say, Oh, great, even though you still don’t feel well, even though the symptoms still persist. You heard them say you’re okay, and that’s what you want. We call it the get out of jail free card because that is what people are looking for. You have to trust your instincts. You have to trust yourself. A lot of the teaching is about recognizing the obstacles, all that you just outlined, that keep people from going and keep people from getting the early detection because of those obstacles.
 Russell: Do you have any statistics—I think you might be a source for it—of people who are finding out that they have cancer, let’s say late detection? Are there- How many cases are there where people are finding out too late that they could have been treated or the treatment becomes more difficult because they waited? Do you have any of those numbers per chance?
 Kelly: I don’t have them at my fingertips. What I can share with you is one in two men and one in three women will be diagnosed with cancer in their lifetime. Those numbers are staggering. That is about 40%. That is a big number. We need to get as many of those people to detect cancer in stage zero or stage one. We also know the cost is significantly different. We do have data that supports stage one care versus stage four is the difference is probably 300-400%.
 The other thing is they just started to publish these studies now in the National Journal of Medicine and a few others around. Misdiagnosis is a blind spot that has been ignored for the last 20 years. The misdiagnosis leads to the lack of early detection. The more diagnoses you get that are inaccurate, the longer the pathway is to the correct diagnosis. There has been a lot of studies published on that. But the actual numbers of early versus late haven’t found that yet. But we are continuing to see stuff like that pop up.
 Russell: That is a lot of people, 40% of the population. That is staggering. Is that how it’s been historically? Have we seen an increase historically?
 Kelly: I don’t know how long ago it was tracked. I can’t answer that. But I know certain cancers are on the rise, some in younger people, like colon cancer and some others. I am not sure to answer your question if it’s on the rise. But the number is staggering. And not rising at a percentage increase like the opioid epidemic. It’s relatively static from the way the government sees it. I know that. Huge numbers, but not these kind of growth rates that are alarming to people.
 Hugh: You said with men, it’s one in two. That would be us, Russell.
 Russell: That would be. I get that. The funny thing is because Kelly was plugged into 15-40. Kelly, because you were plugged in there, you were looking at being proactive about this problem and actually going out to solve it. In my case, I just instinctually shied away from it. My boss and her boss had two separate one-way conversations with me to tell me to go to the doctor. They actually had to threaten to fire me before I did it. That is how strong the fear around facing this was. With men in particular, and it doesn’t surprise me, we like to be angry and flex our muscles and growl, which is a good mask of fear, to be angry for guys.
 Kelly: No one looks forward to sitting on a stool in someone’s office. It’s not a position of power, I like to say.
 Hugh: No, it’s not. Russell, thanks for sharing that story. I guess you went to the doctor then.
 Russell: I did because they threatened to fire me. It was crazy. Once I found out what was going on with me, I was a lot calmer. I approached it a lot better. I was a lot more optimistic than letting go of it. Because I chewed on it and kicked it around for a while. I had a support system of people around me who were there to help me gather information. Good friends that came. My goddaughter and other friends. They said, “Okay, we are going to go with you. Just listen to the doctor. We are here. We can take notes. We can use your voice recorder on the phone. Just lean into it and listen and share where you are, what’s going on.” It was a partnership. It was a team approach. Some of the things that I heard, whoever went with me didn’t hear. There were a lot of things that people went with me to these appointments heard that I didn’t hear. We were able to gather all of this information because when you sit in the chair, facing the treatment, a lot of times you’re overwhelmed with things going on. There is economics, your affairs going forward, how I am actually going to feel. Am I going to be able to go back to my life as it was with work and with family? There are just a ton of uncertainties and a ton of questions that people face. Having people that have gone through it, having the education, having that support network to say, “Look, it’s better to face this stuff sooner rather than later, and you’re not alone” is critical to getting better. I have recovered fully. I have been in remission. I am approaching six years since the completion.
 Kelly: Yay, I like those stories. You bring up a good point about examples of people sharing examples. That is our model of education. We use storytelling. We use people who have had cancer diagnoses and gone through the process. They either detected cancer early or they didn’t. The different outcomes they had as a result, it really is powerful because it helps people live the situation through other people, which can make it less scary. I appreciate you sharing your story, and I am very happy for your outcome.
 Russell: The unspoken thing my doctor said: We have some challenges, but he hinted at the fact that if I had come in a bit earlier, it would have been easier to treat. He wasn’t sure how things were going to go. They are not always sure. They don’t have crystal balls. It’s important to get all of that information out there. No detail is too minor. Get that information out there to assess the situation to find out exactly where you are and what steps you can take.
 Hugh: Kelly, earlier in your dialogue, you talked about the support systems you have. When people find out, there is an emotional side to this. How do you help people there?
 Kelly: We are really the path that leads to diagnosis. We are trying to encourage and engage and empower people to go through the process to get to the diagnosis. As I had said when we started, there is a lot of groups and organizations that support once the diagnosis is made. That is not our focal point. Our focal point is making sure people get to the doctor and get that diagnosis if indeed that is what is wrong with them so they have more options and better chances for care and better health outcomes.
 Hugh: Two more things I am thinking about. People like to say, “I’m too busy to do some of this.” How do you encourage people to cut through that excuse and do what’s important? Secondly, when they actually make the appointment, how do you empower them to have that meaningful conversation with your doctor?
 Kelly: An hour today could save you ten hours tomorrow. Busy is busy. Everybody is busy. At the end of the day, getting to the doctor, taking the time today to get the early diagnosis could save you so much time, so much money, and your life quite frankly. It’s about prioritization. It’s not easy. At the end of the day, how many people prioritize themselves first, especially when you are a parent with children and with a job? But you have to reinforce it as often as possible that to the people who love you, alive is the option. They want you alive, and if it is going to mean that you don’t get to make that lunch because you went to the doctor early or you might miss the last meeting of the day, you are not effective if you are not in the meeting at all. Fortunately, that is one thing that is shifting. It does feel there is support out there in corporate wellness and those environments to focus on health. It sounds like even your experience, people were like, “Get to the doctor or you’re fired.” I love to hear that because they are prioritizing your health over the bottom line of the company. Not everybody does it. Not everybody works for supportive people. You have to be number one, or the consequences can be significant.
 Hugh: Wow. Equipping people to have that conversation.
 Kelly: It doesn’t have to be us or them or me or you. It’s more about I’m having something I have to deal with, and I need support for me to go do that. It shouldn’t be too much to ask, but I know it can be trickier than it sounds.
 Hugh: But getting there. When you talk to the doctor. I am guilty of when I get to the doctor, it doesn’t hurt anymore.
 Kelly: Yep.
 Hugh: So I have to have a good recall. This is what I was feeling. I am self-conscious or nervous, so it has surpassed the slight feeling of pain that I had. I guess there is making notes and being prepared for the doctor. What other ways can people be prepared?
 Kelly: You just touched on something. In advance of the doctor, make sure you write down everything that you experience. Symptoms, changes in your health, that piece. Make sure you make that list in the Notes app or handwrite them. Inevitably, when you get to the situation, you forget half the things. When you are there, make sure that you go through everything and that you don’t, even if you are feeling rushed, it’s your time in that room. You have to command it. It’s that empowerment thing again. I am not done. I haven’t shared everything I am feeling.
 The two other pieces that have been very helpful in the education are: ask them if they don’t know what it is, what could it be? It could be this, or it could be that, or something in between. It gives you some framework to work from. Then you say, Okay. What is the path to the answer? You treat the minimal thing they think it probably is. If it doesn’t work, when should I feel better? When should I come back? You have a plan on what the next act is, and you’re not waiting around for somebody else to reach out to you. In this day and age, you don’t traditionally get a follow-up call.
 The other one I just touched on is when should I feel better? If I get this ten-day antibiotic, on the tenth day, should I feel better? On the fifth day? When should I feel better? What do I do if I don’t?
 Those two things have been powerful statements to keep people in the driver’s seat of the process.
 Hugh: We don’t know what questions to ask. That is helpful.
 Your website is 15-40.org. The logo is 15-40 Connection. Tell us a bit about the website. There is a Donate button. A Contact. You have a blog. What is on the blog?
 Kelly: To set the stage, our product is education. It’s early detection education. We offer through Train the Trainers, through webinars, and through live presentations with panelists. To support the education we have provided, we have a social infrastructure. We are on all social media platforms, and we have a blog. What we do with our blog is enhance and continue to tell the stories of what we have taught. It’s everything from last Valentine’s day, we had a blog post on the most important relationship is the one with your doctor. We actually just are launching the 12 Days of Early Detection. Each day someone sings one of the days. At the end, on December 22, you will be able to hear the whole 12 Days of Early Detection. Each day is reinforcing our education. That is what we use all of our social platforms and our blog to do. A lot of it also is through storytelling, highlighting stories of people who have had successful health outcomes as a result of our education or because they didn’t have our education, they value it and want to make sure other people have it.
 Hugh: Start the Conversation. Know the Power of You. Know Your Role. Be Informed. FAQs. The Three Steps Detect. Remember You’re Great. Two-Week Rule. Share with Your Doctor. Learn from People Like You. Get Involved. Education &amp; Outreach. Share Your Story. Events. Donate. Find out About Us. You have a team for the marathon. 2018 Boston Marathon.
 Kelly: We do. We have seven runners who are collectively already over $25,000 in funds raised. That is super exciting.
 Hugh: That’s great. I ran for the Leukemia/Lymphoma Society raising money for cancer.
 Kelly: For Boston?
 Hugh: No, I ran Atlanta. Yuengling in Virginia Beach. It is a grand event. They give you a name of somebody who is in cancer treatment who you run for. On your website, you can click on that and find out about joining the team. Is that the idea?
 Kelly: Our team is full. We have filled all seven slots. You can certainly support our team. Three of our seven runners are cancer survivors. They are out pushing the mission forward and empowering themselves and running a marathon and supporting early detection education, which is amazing.
 Hugh: I love it. You are sitting in the office?
 Kelly: I am.
 Hugh: You’re in Boston.
 Kelly: We are about 35 minutes west of Boston.
 Hugh: West. Tell us about your staff, your founder, and your board.
 Kelly: Our founder, Joe Coghlin and his family. It is a good story. Jim, his best friend, Mark Ungerer. Jim said, “He is my best friend, second only to my wife.” How romantic, right? Mark lost his son at the age of 15 to leukemia. Mark, as a lasting legacy to his son, started a successful golf tournament. He funded research to help continue to find cures for leukemia. Mark, years after this tournament started, said to Jim, “If something ever happens to me, would you keep this going?” Jim said, “Of course, I will, but you’ll outlive me.” Unfortunately, shortly after that, Mark died. Jim had a commitment to this tournament. He continued to fund the research. He is a very successful businessman. He decided to check out the ROI. For all the funds that were being put into research, what was the outcome? As a result of some of that work, he found this statistic, which showed that there had been an issue around delayed diagnosis and the impact of delayed diagnosis on cancer survival rates. Once he found that and recognized that nobody was focused on it, he met with a family and said, “This is a calling. We can’t let this be. We have to do something about it.” That’s how 15-40 was founded about eight years ago.
 We have an active board. We just had a board meeting last night. We have eight members at this point. We are actively pursuing additional board members as we scale and build new curriculum. Our staff has eight people who work across all categories: development, marketing, education, outreach to support the mission and to scale the mission.
 Hugh: That is music to our ears, isn’t it, Russ? Russell and I reframe the word “consultant” to “WayFinder.” We don’t give people fish; we teach them how to fish. We work with many nonprofits, and boards are not as active as they ought to be. Russell’s specialty is funding. We think about donors and grants, but there are six more streams of funding. It sounds like you have a good thing going, a really solid platform. How many people like you in the office? There is nobody like you, but how many others?
 Kelly: There is eight total people who work in the office each day. A lot of us are out of the office because our education is we are out in schools, in corporate wellness, on college campuses. We are spread all over. There is eight total in the moment.
 Hugh: Do they all wear black furs to work?
 Kelly: Exactly. This is to celebrate our 12 Days of Early Detection. I wore a fancy jacket so that I could sing. Stay tuned. Watch our Facebook page.
 Hugh: You are going to sing. Your Facebook page is 1540 Connection. Twitter is @1540connection. YouTube is The1540Connection. Instagram is 1540connection. No hyphen. Just written out.
 Kelly: Each day, we will post. Everybody is singing a day of early detection.
 Hugh: Love it. That is clever. Russell, we are on the last stretch of our interview. I bet you got some observations and closing questions for Kelly.
 Russell: I love the fact that everybody is cross-trained and understands everybody’s function and role and taking that responsibility onto yourselves. It’s marvelous. Spreading the wealth and spreading the joy. I love what you’re doing. I’d be interested to know more about your Train the Trainer process. That is something that should be spread beyond Boston. I think it should be spread around the country so that people understand what they are looking at.
 Kelly: Because of technology, we were able to do a Train the Trainer in Florida. We are national. Our feet on the street is here in Boston, so we have deeper traction here. We are definitely moving across the Mississippi and trying to hit all four corners and the center of the U.S. and make sure everybody gets the education.
 Hugh: One of your tabs says Get Involved. If people are not in Boston, how do they get involved?
 Kelly: So many ways. You can get involved through social media. You can share our story with your network. You can bring our education through your schools or corporations. You can also sign up for Train the Trainer. You can bring us to your college campus. It really is endless. All the opportunities are posted there. There is also an email capability to tell us what you’re thinking. We are nimble, so we are constantly looking for new ideas. We welcome all ideas.
 Hugh: Amazing. So Kelly, as we wrap up here, is there something we haven’t covered that you want to share? What parting thought do you have to leave with our listeners?
 Kelly: As our founder says, “Health is wealth.” At the end of the day, if you are not healthy, everything is a struggle. We have the capacity to get well. Most people can access a doctor or a hospital. Taking the extra time to do that if something changes in your health can be a life-saving decision. Our founder says often, “Don’t be selfish. Think about all the people who love you. If you make this decision and you are negatively impacted as a result, they are, too.” That is a strong statement. It’s not just about you. It’s about everybody around you. I have young kids. I am being wheeled into the hospital with a ten- and eight-year-old. That is not an easy pill to swallow. You want to come out and make sure that you are there for them. I think that is the key component of all of this. Make it a priority because at the end of the day, nothing else matters. If you don’t have your health, the rest is not going to happen.
 Hugh: Amazing. Russell, those are good words, aren’t they?
 Russell: They are wonderful. Thank you for making this information available to a lot of people. It’s a worthwhile cause. Access to information and resources is critical, especially in today’s climate of rising costs. The thing that I would say to people as a closing thought if you got some things going on and you are stopping to think, Well, I don’t know if I have the money or the resources to pay for it, I will point out that I have never seen a U-Haul behind a hearse. Dead people don’t pay bills.
 Hugh: Kelly, thank you for making time. I know you have a lot of things to do. Thank you for sharing your story with all of our listeners.
 Kelly: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 17 Dec 2017 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7fb09034-b329-11eb-9f0f-9780b42e27e1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Cancer Education and Empowerment</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>15-40 Connection is focused on educating and empowering people about early cancer detection. This education helps individuals become aware of the early warning signs of cancer. Most cancer organizations focus on research for a cure, treatment or support. There are also many cancer organizations that focus on prevention. Unfortunately, we still don’t know what causes all cancers, so while some preventative measures can reduce risk; it can’t remove the risk completely. Research shows that detecting cancer early improves effectiveness of cancer treatment and also improves the chance of survival, which is why 15-40 Connection is empowering individuals to be aware of the early warning signs to give them their best chance at effective treatment and survival.
 15-40 Connection aims to educate and empower individuals with the skills to recognize subtle health changes in themselves, rather than rely only on medical professionals. Through 15-40 Connection’s 3 Steps to Early Detection individuals learn how to become active participants in their own health care so cancer as well as other illnesses can be diagnosed earlier. The result is a quicker return to health and most importantly lives saved.
 For more information: https://www.15-40.org 
 As Vice President for Engagement for 15-40 Connection, Kelly Fattman supports educational outreach and national communication that teaches people how to detect cancer earlier. She is passionate about saving lives through the power of early detection. While working in this role, she experienced health changes herself that lead to a brain tumor diagnosis. Kelly put into practice the exact education she was delivering to change the outcome of her situation.
 Using 15-40 Connection’s 3 Steps Detect, Kelly became one of the most valuable members of her health care team. After describing how her health changes felt, she was told by two doctors. “That doesn’t make sense.” Her health changes were different from what they had seen most often. As they put the piece of the puzzle together to determine her diagnosis, Kelly continued to trust how she was feeling and shared that information. It was because of one of her symptoms that were not making sense that her doctor ordered additional tests which revealed her brain tumor. Had Kelly not shared that information, her diagnosis would have been delayed, the brain tumor would have continued to grow, her treatment options would have been more limited, and the chances of lasting side effects would have risen significantly.
 Prior to her role at 15-40 Connection, Kelly, helped companies large and small launch products, reach new audiences and improve customer engagement. Some of the major brands she has worked with include Reebok, Dunkin Donuts, American Express, New Balance, and the Boston Marathon.
 Here's the Transcript of the Interview
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. And yet another interesting guest, Russell. What do you think of that?
 Russell Dennis: Good-looking and interesting and smart. Dedicated. Those are the kind of people that show up here. I like it.
 Hugh: We attract really brilliant people who have good stories. Kelly, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Kelly Fattman: Thank you for having me.
 Hugh: We had a struggle with technology, but we conquered it. Here we are. Let’s start out. I don’t like these dry introductions of people. I like people to tell me a little bit about themselves. What about you is important to the work you do? Then talk about this organization, 15-40 Connection.
 Kelly: It’s interesting because I have a background in marketing and development. I have spent the last part of my career, probably the last ten years, in strategy, development, and activation, specifically around customer engagement. When I came to 15-40, my role was to really help to drive engagement and scale because we really needed to scale our message. We knew it was life-saving education, and we needed to get to as many people as possible.
 What is unique in my story is I was working as a consultant, and then I had a health change. Part of our education is about noticing changes in your health and acting on them. I did that. I call it my orientation to the business. I was in real time in my life testing our education. Does it work? My health change was significant. I did see a doctor. I had some challenges with getting a diagnosis, but I pushed. I became the empowered patient, which is something that we talk about, and got to an accurate diagnosis, which really changed my life. That makes me not just a business professional, but also a consumer. That combination has been very successful as we enter the drive of this mission and our need to scale it and our ability to scale it.
 Hugh: Kelly Fattman, y’all aren’t from the South, I can tell. Where are y’all from?
 Kelly: I am actually born and raised right outside of Boston, Massachusetts, but my parents are from Pennsylvania. I have a little bit of a mixed problem going on here.
 Hugh: Russell is over there in Denver. They got a really distinctive accent, which you can’t tell. The South is very distinctive, and in New England, it is of course really distinctive.
 Tell us a little bit about 15-40 Connection.
 Kelly: Our mission is we teach people how to detect cancer early. It’s that simple. There is a ton of companies. Once you are diagnosed with cancer, there is a bunch of resources to access for treatment, care, mental health, and research. When it comes to the path that leads to diagnosis, there is nobody who does what we do, which is unfortunately why we are doing it. The founder wasn’t necessarily looking for something else to do, but when he saw this opportunity and the gap that was available to people to maintain their health and survive cancer, he acted on it. Our education is teaching people how to recognize symptoms, act on those symptoms, and connect with their doctors to get an accurate early diagnosis.
 Hugh: Outstanding. On your site, there is a core educational message called Three Steps Detect.
 Kelly: Correct.
 Hugh: Say more about that.
 Kelly: The Three Steps Detect is our core education. It is really the entry point of what you learn when you’re learning about early detection. We broke it down into three simple steps. If you follow these three steps, it will lead to not only potential cancer diagnosis early, but really diagnose anything. We have heard from people this year that have diagnosed heart disease, kidney stones, things along those lines. We know that it’s not just cancer that can be detected early. It can be anything. We know that anything detected early gives you a better chance of survival, better health outcomes, getting back to your life quicker, back to health quicker.
 Hugh: It’s not just cancer?
 Kelly: We are focused on cancer, but the interesting byproduct of our education is it’s helping people find other things as well. But our primary focus is cancer.
 Hugh: Wow. So you started telling a story that you had a health change. It brought you- How did you connect with 15-40? Was it already in existence?
 Kelly: I was actually working here, and they were developing the curriculum Three Steps Detect. We had been doing education before I got here but knew that we needed to tighten it up, be clearer on the message, get something that was memorable and actionable. That is what I was working on. When I had the health change, I followed the three steps quite honestly.
 The biggest step we talk about is the part where the patient interacts with the doctor. Doctors, we call them detectives. They only can solve the case based on the clues that are provided to them. We are the people who provide the clues. I was providing my clues; however, the doctors basically outlined to me that what I was saying didn’t make sense, that my explanation of my symptoms couldn’t be what they are. I stayed true to my story because of what I learned here, and ultimately they ordered the right test and got to an accurate diagnosis. I had two diagnoses prior to the third, which was the accurate one.
 Hugh: Some of us listening that are paranoid. When I visit people in the hospital, I start hurting when they start talking about their operation. Can you give us an idea of those three steps?
 Kelly: Sure. First step is to know you’re normal, to know that you’re great. What’s good for you? When you wake up in the morning, how do you feel on a good day? We don’t have a checklist, but it’s setting benchmarks. What’s your normal sleep patterns? What is your normal energy level? What are your bowel habits? Those are the things you should be checking in with. How is your skin? Do you have a lot of moles or just a few? Are you watching your skin? If new things come in that weren’t there before. It’s knowing what your normal is so if something changes, you can recognize the change. That is step one.
 Step two is the two-week rule. Since you have set the base of your normal, when something changes, you’ll notice. Your stomach starts to act up. Maybe you’re going to the bathroom differently. You’re more tired than normal. Most things will clear up after two weeks. The flu, pneumonia, the common cold. There are lots of things that after two weeks solve themselves. If after two weeks you are still feeling these symptoms, we recommend you go check it out. It does not mean you have cancer. The two-week rule helps people not to be a hypochondriac, as you stated; it helps them to be calm because they say, “Okay. In two weeks a lot of things go away.” Two weeks gives them a reason to go check it out.
 The third step is the sharing with your doctor. That piece is the most critical in that it’s what I outlined earlier. What you say to your doctor is going to determine what they know about you. They don’t have X-ray vision. They can certainly order tests, but they don’t know which ones to order if you are not sharing the right information with them. Ultimately, that relationship is critical. In this time where health care is so challenging and so variable across the country, it is understanding all the different scenarios that people can enter. Some people have long-term relationships with primary care. Others use urgent care or medical clinics, so it’s a one-and-done environment. It’s making sure the patient is driving the conversation, and they are driving the outcome to early diagnosis because if we don’t drive, the doctors and the way the model is now built, they don’t have the infrastructure and support systems, most of them, to do the follow-up and the additional work. They also don’t know how you’re feeling, so you go to the doctor and leave and don’t follow back up with them, but you’re still not feeling well. How are they going to know?
 Those are really the three steps.
 Hugh: I guess it’s tricky. We all assume that the doctor knows everything. They tell you something, and it’s a tendency for us to want to shut down. What I hear you saying is that we learn to be assertive in talking about ourselves. Is that the context you’re talking in?
 Kelly: We say the best chance is you, the empowered patient. It’s all of those. It’s the strength of believing in yourself, trusting in your instincts, not being embarrassed. Some of the cultural norms. In the times we grew up, people didn’t question their doctor. I’m not sure people are being raised the same way now. I think now is the right time. You know you the best. It’s about a partnership with a doctor; it’s not about us versus them. It’s about creating a partnership between you and them.
 Hugh: That is a really helpful paradigm because- You called them a detective a minute ago. We have to give them the clues. They depend on us telling them. I have a very good doctor who listens very carefully and spends time and asks me very good questions. Sometimes those are questions about things I have never thought about, but you are helping me think about being prepared in case I wake up and it’s not normal. If you are not normal, you wait two weeks, and if it doesn’t go away, then you make an appointment. Is that what I heard you say?
 Kelly: That’s exactly right. We also say that if something changes significantly, like you break your leg or you have a really sharp pain or something along those lines, then you don’t wait two weeks. It’s making sure you understand the difference. Our teaching is about the subtle, persistent changes that hang around that wouldn’t necessarily impact your ability to go about your day. Those are the ones you wait two weeks and they usually clear up. Things that are more like the symptom I had was more significant. I had a sharp pain in my head that would come and go, but it was nothing I had ever felt before, very different from my normal and was more dramatic. It wasn’t subtle, I should say. I acted quicker than two weeks.
 Hugh: Why is 15-40 Connection a 501(c)3?
 Kelly: Essentially because a nonprofit is the best way to get to everybody. Our mission is to educate people on how to detect cancer early. The fact is it wasn’t being done before. Now that the issue is raised, you have to build the case to get the education out there. What we were able to do is build the case with funders and people who are interested in the nonprofit space to make a difference and save lives. That is how we landed as a nonprofit segment versus a for-profit who would be selling the education, which is not the motivation of the founder and the other people who work here.
 Hugh: It’s to make it accessible to more people.
 Kelly: Yes.
 Hugh: Russell, what are you hearing here? Do you have questions or observations?
 Russell: That is remarkable. I can think back to a health change that I had when I was working for the IRS. There was some signs. I did not act. In my case, I can speak for myself. I think fear was a factor. Does your education program go to address those things that people may have, these fears that going to the doctor could cause me to miss work or my insurance may not be adequate? Fear is unreasonable often. It doesn’t make any sense, yet it is there. Does your program address any of these fears that people may be experiencing or provide a space where people can discuss it?
 Kelly: Yes. Fear is the #1 issue. People say, I’m afraid to go. If I don’t go, it will go away. The reality is that that fear, where it’s unfounded is if you catch it early, great. That’s a win because you can take care of it. If you don’t have anything, that’s great, too. Both are celebration points. We do have a natural fear of what the doctor is going to say. We also on the flip side of that want the doctor to say you’re okay. Once the doctor says you’re fine, we say, Oh, great, even though you still don’t feel well, even though the symptoms still persist. You heard them say you’re okay, and that’s what you want. We call it the get out of jail free card because that is what people are looking for. You have to trust your instincts. You have to trust yourself. A lot of the teaching is about recognizing the obstacles, all that you just outlined, that keep people from going and keep people from getting the early detection because of those obstacles.
 Russell: Do you have any statistics—I think you might be a source for it—of people who are finding out that they have cancer, let’s say late detection? Are there- How many cases are there where people are finding out too late that they could have been treated or the treatment becomes more difficult because they waited? Do you have any of those numbers per chance?
 Kelly: I don’t have them at my fingertips. What I can share with you is one in two men and one in three women will be diagnosed with cancer in their lifetime. Those numbers are staggering. That is about 40%. That is a big number. We need to get as many of those people to detect cancer in stage zero or stage one. We also know the cost is significantly different. We do have data that supports stage one care versus stage four is the difference is probably 300-400%.
 The other thing is they just started to publish these studies now in the National Journal of Medicine and a few others around. Misdiagnosis is a blind spot that has been ignored for the last 20 years. The misdiagnosis leads to the lack of early detection. The more diagnoses you get that are inaccurate, the longer the pathway is to the correct diagnosis. There has been a lot of studies published on that. But the actual numbers of early versus late haven’t found that yet. But we are continuing to see stuff like that pop up.
 Russell: That is a lot of people, 40% of the population. That is staggering. Is that how it’s been historically? Have we seen an increase historically?
 Kelly: I don’t know how long ago it was tracked. I can’t answer that. But I know certain cancers are on the rise, some in younger people, like colon cancer and some others. I am not sure to answer your question if it’s on the rise. But the number is staggering. And not rising at a percentage increase like the opioid epidemic. It’s relatively static from the way the government sees it. I know that. Huge numbers, but not these kind of growth rates that are alarming to people.
 Hugh: You said with men, it’s one in two. That would be us, Russell.
 Russell: That would be. I get that. The funny thing is because Kelly was plugged into 15-40. Kelly, because you were plugged in there, you were looking at being proactive about this problem and actually going out to solve it. In my case, I just instinctually shied away from it. My boss and her boss had two separate one-way conversations with me to tell me to go to the doctor. They actually had to threaten to fire me before I did it. That is how strong the fear around facing this was. With men in particular, and it doesn’t surprise me, we like to be angry and flex our muscles and growl, which is a good mask of fear, to be angry for guys.
 Kelly: No one looks forward to sitting on a stool in someone’s office. It’s not a position of power, I like to say.
 Hugh: No, it’s not. Russell, thanks for sharing that story. I guess you went to the doctor then.
 Russell: I did because they threatened to fire me. It was crazy. Once I found out what was going on with me, I was a lot calmer. I approached it a lot better. I was a lot more optimistic than letting go of it. Because I chewed on it and kicked it around for a while. I had a support system of people around me who were there to help me gather information. Good friends that came. My goddaughter and other friends. They said, “Okay, we are going to go with you. Just listen to the doctor. We are here. We can take notes. We can use your voice recorder on the phone. Just lean into it and listen and share where you are, what’s going on.” It was a partnership. It was a team approach. Some of the things that I heard, whoever went with me didn’t hear. There were a lot of things that people went with me to these appointments heard that I didn’t hear. We were able to gather all of this information because when you sit in the chair, facing the treatment, a lot of times you’re overwhelmed with things going on. There is economics, your affairs going forward, how I am actually going to feel. Am I going to be able to go back to my life as it was with work and with family? There are just a ton of uncertainties and a ton of questions that people face. Having people that have gone through it, having the education, having that support network to say, “Look, it’s better to face this stuff sooner rather than later, and you’re not alone” is critical to getting better. I have recovered fully. I have been in remission. I am approaching six years since the completion.
 Kelly: Yay, I like those stories. You bring up a good point about examples of people sharing examples. That is our model of education. We use storytelling. We use people who have had cancer diagnoses and gone through the process. They either detected cancer early or they didn’t. The different outcomes they had as a result, it really is powerful because it helps people live the situation through other people, which can make it less scary. I appreciate you sharing your story, and I am very happy for your outcome.
 Russell: The unspoken thing my doctor said: We have some challenges, but he hinted at the fact that if I had come in a bit earlier, it would have been easier to treat. He wasn’t sure how things were going to go. They are not always sure. They don’t have crystal balls. It’s important to get all of that information out there. No detail is too minor. Get that information out there to assess the situation to find out exactly where you are and what steps you can take.
 Hugh: Kelly, earlier in your dialogue, you talked about the support systems you have. When people find out, there is an emotional side to this. How do you help people there?
 Kelly: We are really the path that leads to diagnosis. We are trying to encourage and engage and empower people to go through the process to get to the diagnosis. As I had said when we started, there is a lot of groups and organizations that support once the diagnosis is made. That is not our focal point. Our focal point is making sure people get to the doctor and get that diagnosis if indeed that is what is wrong with them so they have more options and better chances for care and better health outcomes.
 Hugh: Two more things I am thinking about. People like to say, “I’m too busy to do some of this.” How do you encourage people to cut through that excuse and do what’s important? Secondly, when they actually make the appointment, how do you empower them to have that meaningful conversation with your doctor?
 Kelly: An hour today could save you ten hours tomorrow. Busy is busy. Everybody is busy. At the end of the day, getting to the doctor, taking the time today to get the early diagnosis could save you so much time, so much money, and your life quite frankly. It’s about prioritization. It’s not easy. At the end of the day, how many people prioritize themselves first, especially when you are a parent with children and with a job? But you have to reinforce it as often as possible that to the people who love you, alive is the option. They want you alive, and if it is going to mean that you don’t get to make that lunch because you went to the doctor early or you might miss the last meeting of the day, you are not effective if you are not in the meeting at all. Fortunately, that is one thing that is shifting. It does feel there is support out there in corporate wellness and those environments to focus on health. It sounds like even your experience, people were like, “Get to the doctor or you’re fired.” I love to hear that because they are prioritizing your health over the bottom line of the company. Not everybody does it. Not everybody works for supportive people. You have to be number one, or the consequences can be significant.
 Hugh: Wow. Equipping people to have that conversation.
 Kelly: It doesn’t have to be us or them or me or you. It’s more about I’m having something I have to deal with, and I need support for me to go do that. It shouldn’t be too much to ask, but I know it can be trickier than it sounds.
 Hugh: But getting there. When you talk to the doctor. I am guilty of when I get to the doctor, it doesn’t hurt anymore.
 Kelly: Yep.
 Hugh: So I have to have a good recall. This is what I was feeling. I am self-conscious or nervous, so it has surpassed the slight feeling of pain that I had. I guess there is making notes and being prepared for the doctor. What other ways can people be prepared?
 Kelly: You just touched on something. In advance of the doctor, make sure you write down everything that you experience. Symptoms, changes in your health, that piece. Make sure you make that list in the Notes app or handwrite them. Inevitably, when you get to the situation, you forget half the things. When you are there, make sure that you go through everything and that you don’t, even if you are feeling rushed, it’s your time in that room. You have to command it. It’s that empowerment thing again. I am not done. I haven’t shared everything I am feeling.
 The two other pieces that have been very helpful in the education are: ask them if they don’t know what it is, what could it be? It could be this, or it could be that, or something in between. It gives you some framework to work from. Then you say, Okay. What is the path to the answer? You treat the minimal thing they think it probably is. If it doesn’t work, when should I feel better? When should I come back? You have a plan on what the next act is, and you’re not waiting around for somebody else to reach out to you. In this day and age, you don’t traditionally get a follow-up call.
 The other one I just touched on is when should I feel better? If I get this ten-day antibiotic, on the tenth day, should I feel better? On the fifth day? When should I feel better? What do I do if I don’t?
 Those two things have been powerful statements to keep people in the driver’s seat of the process.
 Hugh: We don’t know what questions to ask. That is helpful.
 Your website is 15-40.org. The logo is 15-40 Connection. Tell us a bit about the website. There is a Donate button. A Contact. You have a blog. What is on the blog?
 Kelly: To set the stage, our product is education. It’s early detection education. We offer through Train the Trainers, through webinars, and through live presentations with panelists. To support the education we have provided, we have a social infrastructure. We are on all social media platforms, and we have a blog. What we do with our blog is enhance and continue to tell the stories of what we have taught. It’s everything from last Valentine’s day, we had a blog post on the most important relationship is the one with your doctor. We actually just are launching the 12 Days of Early Detection. Each day someone sings one of the days. At the end, on December 22, you will be able to hear the whole 12 Days of Early Detection. Each day is reinforcing our education. That is what we use all of our social platforms and our blog to do. A lot of it also is through storytelling, highlighting stories of people who have had successful health outcomes as a result of our education or because they didn’t have our education, they value it and want to make sure other people have it.
 Hugh: Start the Conversation. Know the Power of You. Know Your Role. Be Informed. FAQs. The Three Steps Detect. Remember You’re Great. Two-Week Rule. Share with Your Doctor. Learn from People Like You. Get Involved. Education &amp; Outreach. Share Your Story. Events. Donate. Find out About Us. You have a team for the marathon. 2018 Boston Marathon.
 Kelly: We do. We have seven runners who are collectively already over $25,000 in funds raised. That is super exciting.
 Hugh: That’s great. I ran for the Leukemia/Lymphoma Society raising money for cancer.
 Kelly: For Boston?
 Hugh: No, I ran Atlanta. Yuengling in Virginia Beach. It is a grand event. They give you a name of somebody who is in cancer treatment who you run for. On your website, you can click on that and find out about joining the team. Is that the idea?
 Kelly: Our team is full. We have filled all seven slots. You can certainly support our team. Three of our seven runners are cancer survivors. They are out pushing the mission forward and empowering themselves and running a marathon and supporting early detection education, which is amazing.
 Hugh: I love it. You are sitting in the office?
 Kelly: I am.
 Hugh: You’re in Boston.
 Kelly: We are about 35 minutes west of Boston.
 Hugh: West. Tell us about your staff, your founder, and your board.
 Kelly: Our founder, Joe Coghlin and his family. It is a good story. Jim, his best friend, Mark Ungerer. Jim said, “He is my best friend, second only to my wife.” How romantic, right? Mark lost his son at the age of 15 to leukemia. Mark, as a lasting legacy to his son, started a successful golf tournament. He funded research to help continue to find cures for leukemia. Mark, years after this tournament started, said to Jim, “If something ever happens to me, would you keep this going?” Jim said, “Of course, I will, but you’ll outlive me.” Unfortunately, shortly after that, Mark died. Jim had a commitment to this tournament. He continued to fund the research. He is a very successful businessman. He decided to check out the ROI. For all the funds that were being put into research, what was the outcome? As a result of some of that work, he found this statistic, which showed that there had been an issue around delayed diagnosis and the impact of delayed diagnosis on cancer survival rates. Once he found that and recognized that nobody was focused on it, he met with a family and said, “This is a calling. We can’t let this be. We have to do something about it.” That’s how 15-40 was founded about eight years ago.
 We have an active board. We just had a board meeting last night. We have eight members at this point. We are actively pursuing additional board members as we scale and build new curriculum. Our staff has eight people who work across all categories: development, marketing, education, outreach to support the mission and to scale the mission.
 Hugh: That is music to our ears, isn’t it, Russ? Russell and I reframe the word “consultant” to “WayFinder.” We don’t give people fish; we teach them how to fish. We work with many nonprofits, and boards are not as active as they ought to be. Russell’s specialty is funding. We think about donors and grants, but there are six more streams of funding. It sounds like you have a good thing going, a really solid platform. How many people like you in the office? There is nobody like you, but how many others?
 Kelly: There is eight total people who work in the office each day. A lot of us are out of the office because our education is we are out in schools, in corporate wellness, on college campuses. We are spread all over. There is eight total in the moment.
 Hugh: Do they all wear black furs to work?
 Kelly: Exactly. This is to celebrate our 12 Days of Early Detection. I wore a fancy jacket so that I could sing. Stay tuned. Watch our Facebook page.
 Hugh: You are going to sing. Your Facebook page is 1540 Connection. Twitter is @1540connection. YouTube is The1540Connection. Instagram is 1540connection. No hyphen. Just written out.
 Kelly: Each day, we will post. Everybody is singing a day of early detection.
 Hugh: Love it. That is clever. Russell, we are on the last stretch of our interview. I bet you got some observations and closing questions for Kelly.
 Russell: I love the fact that everybody is cross-trained and understands everybody’s function and role and taking that responsibility onto yourselves. It’s marvelous. Spreading the wealth and spreading the joy. I love what you’re doing. I’d be interested to know more about your Train the Trainer process. That is something that should be spread beyond Boston. I think it should be spread around the country so that people understand what they are looking at.
 Kelly: Because of technology, we were able to do a Train the Trainer in Florida. We are national. Our feet on the street is here in Boston, so we have deeper traction here. We are definitely moving across the Mississippi and trying to hit all four corners and the center of the U.S. and make sure everybody gets the education.
 Hugh: One of your tabs says Get Involved. If people are not in Boston, how do they get involved?
 Kelly: So many ways. You can get involved through social media. You can share our story with your network. You can bring our education through your schools or corporations. You can also sign up for Train the Trainer. You can bring us to your college campus. It really is endless. All the opportunities are posted there. There is also an email capability to tell us what you’re thinking. We are nimble, so we are constantly looking for new ideas. We welcome all ideas.
 Hugh: Amazing. So Kelly, as we wrap up here, is there something we haven’t covered that you want to share? What parting thought do you have to leave with our listeners?
 Kelly: As our founder says, “Health is wealth.” At the end of the day, if you are not healthy, everything is a struggle. We have the capacity to get well. Most people can access a doctor or a hospital. Taking the extra time to do that if something changes in your health can be a life-saving decision. Our founder says often, “Don’t be selfish. Think about all the people who love you. If you make this decision and you are negatively impacted as a result, they are, too.” That is a strong statement. It’s not just about you. It’s about everybody around you. I have young kids. I am being wheeled into the hospital with a ten- and eight-year-old. That is not an easy pill to swallow. You want to come out and make sure that you are there for them. I think that is the key component of all of this. Make it a priority because at the end of the day, nothing else matters. If you don’t have your health, the rest is not going to happen.
 Hugh: Amazing. Russell, those are good words, aren’t they?
 Russell: They are wonderful. Thank you for making this information available to a lot of people. It’s a worthwhile cause. Access to information and resources is critical, especially in today’s climate of rising costs. The thing that I would say to people as a closing thought if you got some things going on and you are stopping to think, Well, I don’t know if I have the money or the resources to pay for it, I will point out that I have never seen a U-Haul behind a hearse. Dead people don’t pay bills.
 Hugh: Kelly, thank you for making time. I know you have a lot of things to do. Thank you for sharing your story with all of our listeners.
 Kelly: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>15-40 Connection</strong> is focused on educating and empowering people about early cancer detection. This education helps individuals become aware of the early warning signs of cancer. Most cancer organizations focus on research for a cure, treatment or support. There are also many cancer organizations that focus on prevention. Unfortunately, we still don’t know what causes all cancers, so while some preventative measures can reduce risk; it can’t remove the risk completely. Research shows that detecting cancer early improves effectiveness of cancer treatment and also improves the chance of survival, which is why 15-40 Connection is empowering individuals to be aware of the early warning signs to give them their best chance at effective treatment and survival.</p> <p>15-40 Connection aims to educate and empower individuals with the skills to recognize subtle health changes in themselves, rather than rely only on medical professionals. Through 15-40 Connection’s 3 Steps to Early Detection individuals learn how to become active participants in their own health care so cancer as well as other illnesses can be diagnosed earlier. The result is a quicker return to health and most importantly lives saved.</p> <p>For more information: <a href="https://www.15-40.org">https://www.15-40.org</a> </p> <p>As Vice President for Engagement for 15-40 Connection, <strong>Kelly Fattman</strong> supports educational outreach and national communication that teaches people how to detect cancer earlier. She is passionate about saving lives through the power of early detection. While working in this role, she experienced health changes herself that lead to a brain tumor diagnosis. Kelly put into practice the exact education she was delivering to change the outcome of her situation.</p> <p>Using 15-40 Connection’s 3 Steps Detect, Kelly became one of the most valuable members of her health care team. After describing how her health changes felt, she was told by two doctors. “That doesn’t make sense.” Her health changes were different from what they had seen most often. As they put the piece of the puzzle together to determine her diagnosis, Kelly continued to trust how she was feeling and shared that information. It was because of one of her symptoms that were not making sense that her doctor ordered additional tests which revealed her brain tumor. Had Kelly not shared that information, her diagnosis would have been delayed, the brain tumor would have continued to grow, her treatment options would have been more limited, and the chances of lasting side effects would have risen significantly.</p> <p>Prior to her role at 15-40 Connection, Kelly, helped companies large and small launch products, reach new audiences and improve customer engagement. Some of the major brands she has worked with include Reebok, Dunkin Donuts, American Express, New Balance, and the Boston Marathon.</p> <p><strong>Here's the Transcript of the Interview</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. And yet another interesting guest, Russell. What do you think of that?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Good-looking and interesting and smart. Dedicated. Those are the kind of people that show up here. I like it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We attract really brilliant people who have good stories. Kelly, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.</p> <p><strong>Kelly Fattman:</strong> Thank you for having me.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We had a struggle with technology, but we conquered it. Here we are. Let’s start out. I don’t like these dry introductions of people. I like people to tell me a little bit about themselves. What about you is important to the work you do? Then talk about this organization, 15-40 Connection.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> It’s interesting because I have a background in marketing and development. I have spent the last part of my career, probably the last ten years, in strategy, development, and activation, specifically around customer engagement. When I came to 15-40, my role was to really help to drive engagement and scale because we really needed to scale our message. We knew it was life-saving education, and we needed to get to as many people as possible.</p> <p>What is unique in my story is I was working as a consultant, and then I had a health change. Part of our education is about noticing changes in your health and acting on them. I did that. I call it my orientation to the business. I was in real time in my life testing our education. Does it work? My health change was significant. I did see a doctor. I had some challenges with getting a diagnosis, but I pushed. I became the empowered patient, which is something that we talk about, and got to an accurate diagnosis, which really changed my life. That makes me not just a business professional, but also a consumer. That combination has been very successful as we enter the drive of this mission and our need to scale it and our ability to scale it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Kelly Fattman, y’all aren’t from the South, I can tell. Where are y’all from?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> I am actually born and raised right outside of Boston, Massachusetts, but my parents are from Pennsylvania. I have a little bit of a mixed problem going on here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell is over there in Denver. They got a really distinctive accent, which you can’t tell. The South is very distinctive, and in New England, it is of course really distinctive.</p> <p>Tell us a little bit about 15-40 Connection.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Our mission is we teach people how to detect cancer early. It’s that simple. There is a ton of companies. Once you are diagnosed with cancer, there is a bunch of resources to access for treatment, care, mental health, and research. When it comes to the path that leads to diagnosis, there is nobody who does what we do, which is unfortunately why we are doing it. The founder wasn’t necessarily looking for something else to do, but when he saw this opportunity and the gap that was available to people to maintain their health and survive cancer, he acted on it. Our education is teaching people how to recognize symptoms, act on those symptoms, and connect with their doctors to get an accurate early diagnosis.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Outstanding. On your site, there is a core educational message called Three Steps Detect.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Correct.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Say more about that.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> The Three Steps Detect is our core education. It is really the entry point of what you learn when you’re learning about early detection. We broke it down into three simple steps. If you follow these three steps, it will lead to not only potential cancer diagnosis early, but really diagnose anything. We have heard from people this year that have diagnosed heart disease, kidney stones, things along those lines. We know that it’s not just cancer that can be detected early. It can be anything. We know that anything detected early gives you a better chance of survival, better health outcomes, getting back to your life quicker, back to health quicker.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s not just cancer?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> We are focused on cancer, but the interesting byproduct of our education is it’s helping people find other things as well. But our primary focus is cancer.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. So you started telling a story that you had a health change. It brought you- How did you connect with 15-40? Was it already in existence?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> I was actually working here, and they were developing the curriculum Three Steps Detect. We had been doing education before I got here but knew that we needed to tighten it up, be clearer on the message, get something that was memorable and actionable. That is what I was working on. When I had the health change, I followed the three steps quite honestly.</p> <p>The biggest step we talk about is the part where the patient interacts with the doctor. Doctors, we call them detectives. They only can solve the case based on the clues that are provided to them. We are the people who provide the clues. I was providing my clues; however, the doctors basically outlined to me that what I was saying didn’t make sense, that my explanation of my symptoms couldn’t be what they are. I stayed true to my story because of what I learned here, and ultimately they ordered the right test and got to an accurate diagnosis. I had two diagnoses prior to the third, which was the accurate one.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Some of us listening that are paranoid. When I visit people in the hospital, I start hurting when they start talking about their operation. Can you give us an idea of those three steps?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Sure. First step is to know you’re normal, to know that you’re great. What’s good for you? When you wake up in the morning, how do you feel on a good day? We don’t have a checklist, but it’s setting benchmarks. What’s your normal sleep patterns? What is your normal energy level? What are your bowel habits? Those are the things you should be checking in with. How is your skin? Do you have a lot of moles or just a few? Are you watching your skin? If new things come in that weren’t there before. It’s knowing what your normal is so if something changes, you can recognize the change. That is step one.</p> <p>Step two is the two-week rule. Since you have set the base of your normal, when something changes, you’ll notice. Your stomach starts to act up. Maybe you’re going to the bathroom differently. You’re more tired than normal. Most things will clear up after two weeks. The flu, pneumonia, the common cold. There are lots of things that after two weeks solve themselves. If after two weeks you are still feeling these symptoms, we recommend you go check it out. It does not mean you have cancer. The two-week rule helps people not to be a hypochondriac, as you stated; it helps them to be calm because they say, “Okay. In two weeks a lot of things go away.” Two weeks gives them a reason to go check it out.</p> <p>The third step is the sharing with your doctor. That piece is the most critical in that it’s what I outlined earlier. What you say to your doctor is going to determine what they know about you. They don’t have X-ray vision. They can certainly order tests, but they don’t know which ones to order if you are not sharing the right information with them. Ultimately, that relationship is critical. In this time where health care is so challenging and so variable across the country, it is understanding all the different scenarios that people can enter. Some people have long-term relationships with primary care. Others use urgent care or medical clinics, so it’s a one-and-done environment. It’s making sure the patient is driving the conversation, and they are driving the outcome to early diagnosis because if we don’t drive, the doctors and the way the model is now built, they don’t have the infrastructure and support systems, most of them, to do the follow-up and the additional work. They also don’t know how you’re feeling, so you go to the doctor and leave and don’t follow back up with them, but you’re still not feeling well. How are they going to know?</p> <p>Those are really the three steps.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I guess it’s tricky. We all assume that the doctor knows everything. They tell you something, and it’s a tendency for us to want to shut down. What I hear you saying is that we learn to be assertive in talking about ourselves. Is that the context you’re talking in?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> We say the best chance is you, the empowered patient. It’s all of those. It’s the strength of believing in yourself, trusting in your instincts, not being embarrassed. Some of the cultural norms. In the times we grew up, people didn’t question their doctor. I’m not sure people are being raised the same way now. I think now is the right time. You know you the best. It’s about a partnership with a doctor; it’s not about us versus them. It’s about creating a partnership between you and them.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is a really helpful paradigm because- You called them a detective a minute ago. We have to give them the clues. They depend on us telling them. I have a very good doctor who listens very carefully and spends time and asks me very good questions. Sometimes those are questions about things I have never thought about, but you are helping me think about being prepared in case I wake up and it’s not normal. If you are not normal, you wait two weeks, and if it doesn’t go away, then you make an appointment. Is that what I heard you say?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> That’s exactly right. We also say that if something changes significantly, like you break your leg or you have a really sharp pain or something along those lines, then you don’t wait two weeks. It’s making sure you understand the difference. Our teaching is about the subtle, persistent changes that hang around that wouldn’t necessarily impact your ability to go about your day. Those are the ones you wait two weeks and they usually clear up. Things that are more like the symptom I had was more significant. I had a sharp pain in my head that would come and go, but it was nothing I had ever felt before, very different from my normal and was more dramatic. It wasn’t subtle, I should say. I acted quicker than two weeks.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Why is 15-40 Connection a 501(c)3?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Essentially because a nonprofit is the best way to get to everybody. Our mission is to educate people on how to detect cancer early. The fact is it wasn’t being done before. Now that the issue is raised, you have to build the case to get the education out there. What we were able to do is build the case with funders and people who are interested in the nonprofit space to make a difference and save lives. That is how we landed as a nonprofit segment versus a for-profit who would be selling the education, which is not the motivation of the founder and the other people who work here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s to make it accessible to more people.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, what are you hearing here? Do you have questions or observations?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is remarkable. I can think back to a health change that I had when I was working for the IRS. There was some signs. I did not act. In my case, I can speak for myself. I think fear was a factor. Does your education program go to address those things that people may have, these fears that going to the doctor could cause me to miss work or my insurance may not be adequate? Fear is unreasonable often. It doesn’t make any sense, yet it is there. Does your program address any of these fears that people may be experiencing or provide a space where people can discuss it?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Yes. Fear is the #1 issue. People say, I’m afraid to go. If I don’t go<strong>,</strong> it will go away. The reality is that that fear, where it’s unfounded is if you catch it early, great. That’s a win because you can take care of it. If you don’t have anything, that’s great, too. Both are celebration points. We do have a natural fear of what the doctor is going to say. We also on the flip side of that want the doctor to say you’re okay. Once the doctor says you’re fine, we say, Oh, great, even though you still don’t feel well, even though the symptoms still persist. You heard them say you’re okay, and that’s what you want. We call it the get out of jail free card because that is what people are looking for. You have to trust your instincts. You have to trust yourself. A lot of the teaching is about recognizing the obstacles, all that you just outlined, that keep people from going and keep people from getting the early detection because of those obstacles.</p> <p><strong>Russell</strong>: Do you have any statistics—I think you might be a source for it—of people who are finding out that they have cancer, let’s say late detection? Are there- How many cases are there where people are finding out too late that they could have been treated or the treatment becomes more difficult because they waited? Do you have any of those numbers per chance?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> I don’t have them at my fingertips. What I can share with you is one in two men and one in three women will be diagnosed with cancer in their lifetime. Those numbers are staggering. That is about 40%. That is a big number. We need to get as many of those people to detect cancer in stage zero or stage one. We also know the cost is significantly different. We do have data that supports stage one care versus stage four is the difference is probably 300-400%.</p> <p>The other thing is they just started to publish these studies now in the National Journal of Medicine and a few others around. Misdiagnosis is a blind spot that has been ignored for the last 20 years. The misdiagnosis leads to the lack of early detection. The more diagnoses you get that are inaccurate, the longer the pathway is to the correct diagnosis. There has been a lot of studies published on that. But the actual numbers of early versus late haven’t found that yet. But we are continuing to see stuff like that pop up.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is a lot of people, 40% of the population. That is staggering. Is that how it’s been historically? Have we seen an increase historically?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> I don’t know how long ago it was tracked. I can’t answer that. But I know certain cancers are on the rise, some in younger people, like colon cancer and some others. I am not sure to answer your question if it’s on the rise. But the number is staggering. And not rising at a percentage increase like the opioid epidemic. It’s relatively static from the way the government sees it. I know that. Huge numbers, but not these kind of growth rates that are alarming to people.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You said with men, it’s one in two. That would be us, Russell.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That would be. I get that. The funny thing is because Kelly was plugged into 15-40. Kelly, because you were plugged in there, you were looking at being proactive about this problem and actually going out to solve it. In my case, I just instinctually shied away from it. My boss and her boss had two separate one-way conversations with me to tell me to go to the doctor. They actually had to threaten to fire me before I did it. That is how strong the fear around facing this was. With men in particular, and it doesn’t surprise me, we like to be angry and flex our muscles and growl, which is a good mask of fear, to be angry for guys.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> No one looks forward to sitting on a stool in someone’s office. It’s not a position of power, I like to say.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> No, it’s not. Russell, thanks for sharing that story. I guess you went to the doctor then.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I did because they threatened to fire me. It was crazy. Once I found out what was going on with me, I was a lot calmer. I approached it a lot better. I was a lot more optimistic than letting go of it. Because I chewed on it and kicked it around for a while. I had a support system of people around me who were there to help me gather information. Good friends that came. My goddaughter and other friends. They said, “Okay, we are going to go with you. Just listen to the doctor. We are here. We can take notes. We can use your voice recorder on the phone. Just lean into it and listen and share where you are, what’s going on.” It was a partnership. It was a team approach. Some of the things that I heard, whoever went with me didn’t hear. There were a lot of things that people went with me to these appointments heard that I didn’t hear. We were able to gather all of this information because when you sit in the chair, facing the treatment, a lot of times you’re overwhelmed with things going on. There is economics, your affairs going forward, how I am actually going to feel. Am I going to be able to go back to my life as it was with work and with family? There are just a ton of uncertainties and a ton of questions that people face. Having people that have gone through it, having the education, having that support network to say, “Look, it’s better to face this stuff sooner rather than later, and you’re not alone” is critical to getting better. I have recovered fully. I have been in remission. I am approaching six years since the completion.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Yay, I like those stories. You bring up a good point about examples of people sharing examples. That is our model of education. We use storytelling. We use people who have had cancer diagnoses and gone through the process. They either detected cancer early or they didn’t. The different outcomes they had as a result, it really is powerful because it helps people live the situation through other people, which can make it less scary. I appreciate you sharing your story, and I am very happy for your outcome.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The unspoken thing my doctor said: We have some challenges, but he hinted at the fact that if I had come in a bit earlier, it would have been easier to treat. He wasn’t sure how things were going to go. They are not always sure. They don’t have crystal balls. It’s important to get all of that information out there. No detail is too minor. Get that information out there to assess the situation to find out exactly where you are and what steps you can take.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Kelly, earlier in your dialogue, you talked about the support systems you have. When people find out, there is an emotional side to this. How do you help people there?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> We are really the path that leads to diagnosis. We are trying to encourage and engage and empower people to go through the process to get to the diagnosis. As I had said when we started, there is a lot of groups and organizations that support once the diagnosis is made. That is not our focal point. Our focal point is making sure people get to the doctor and get that diagnosis if indeed that is what is wrong with them so they have more options and better chances for care and better health outcomes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Two more things I am thinking about. People like to say, “I’m too busy to do some of this.” How do you encourage people to cut through that excuse and do what’s important? Secondly, when they actually make the appointment, how do you empower them to have that meaningful conversation with your doctor?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> An hour today could save you ten hours tomorrow. Busy is busy. Everybody is busy. At the end of the day, getting to the doctor, taking the time today to get the early diagnosis could save you so much time, so much money, and your life quite frankly. It’s about prioritization. It’s not easy. At the end of the day, how many people prioritize themselves first, especially when you are a parent with children and with a job? But you have to reinforce it as often as possible that to the people who love you, alive is the option. They want you alive, and if it is going to mean that you don’t get to make that lunch because you went to the doctor early or you might miss the last meeting of the day, you are not effective if you are not in the meeting at all. Fortunately, that is one thing that is shifting. It does feel there is support out there in corporate wellness and those environments to focus on health. It sounds like even your experience, people were like, “Get to the doctor or you’re fired.” I love to hear that because they are prioritizing your health over the bottom line of the company. Not everybody does it. Not everybody works for supportive people. You have to be number one, or the consequences can be significant.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. Equipping people to have that conversation.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> It doesn’t have to be us or them or me or you. It’s more about I’m having something I have to deal with, and I need support for me to go do that. It shouldn’t be too much to ask, but I know it can be trickier than it sounds.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> But getting there. When you talk to the doctor. I am guilty of when I get to the doctor, it doesn’t hurt anymore.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Yep.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> So I have to have a good recall. This is what I was feeling. I am self-conscious or nervous, so it has surpassed the slight feeling of pain that I had. I guess there is making notes and being prepared for the doctor. What other ways can people be prepared?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> You just touched on something. In advance of the doctor, make sure you write down everything that you experience. Symptoms, changes in your health, that piece. Make sure you make that list in the Notes app or handwrite them. Inevitably, when you get to the situation, you forget half the things. When you are there, make sure that you go through everything and that you don’t, even if you are feeling rushed, it’s your time in that room. You have to command it. It’s that empowerment thing again. I am not done. I haven’t shared everything I am feeling.</p> <p>The two other pieces that have been very helpful in the education are: ask them if they don’t know what it is, what could it be? It could be this, or it could be that, or something in between. It gives you some framework to work from. Then you say, Okay. What is the path to the answer? You treat the minimal thing they think it probably is. If it doesn’t work, when should I feel better? When should I come back? You have a plan on what the next act is, and you’re not waiting around for somebody else to reach out to you. In this day and age, you don’t traditionally get a follow-up call.</p> <p>The other one I just touched on is when should I feel better? If I get this ten-day antibiotic, on the tenth day, should I feel better? On the fifth day? When should I feel better? What do I do if I don’t?</p> <p>Those two things have been powerful statements to keep people in the driver’s seat of the process.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We don’t know what questions to ask. That is helpful.</p> <p>Your website is 15-40.org. The logo is 15-40 Connection. Tell us a bit about the website. There is a Donate button. A Contact. You have a blog. What is on the blog?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> To set the stage, our product is education. It’s early detection education. We offer through Train the Trainers, through webinars, and through live presentations with panelists. To support the education we have provided, we have a social infrastructure. We are on all social media platforms, and we have a blog. What we do with our blog is enhance and continue to tell the stories of what we have taught. It’s everything from last Valentine’s day, we had a blog post on the most important relationship is the one with your doctor. We actually just are launching the 12 Days of Early Detection. Each day someone sings one of the days. At the end, on December 22, you will be able to hear the whole 12 Days of Early Detection. Each day is reinforcing our education. That is what we use all of our social platforms and our blog to do. A lot of it also is through storytelling, highlighting stories of people who have had successful health outcomes as a result of our education or because they didn’t have our education, they value it and want to make sure other people have it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Start the Conversation. Know the Power of You. Know Your Role. Be Informed. FAQs. The Three Steps Detect. Remember You’re Great. Two-Week Rule. Share with Your Doctor. Learn from People Like You. Get Involved. Education &amp; Outreach. Share Your Story. Events. Donate. Find out About Us. You have a team for the marathon. 2018 Boston Marathon.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> We do. We have seven runners who are collectively already over $25,000 in funds raised. That is super exciting.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s great. I ran for the Leukemia/Lymphoma Society raising money for cancer.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> For Boston?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> No, I ran Atlanta. Yuengling in Virginia Beach. It is a grand event. They give you a name of somebody who is in cancer treatment who you run for. On your website, you can click on that and find out about joining the team. Is that the idea?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Our team is full. We have filled all seven slots. You can certainly support our team. Three of our seven runners are cancer survivors. They are out pushing the mission forward and empowering themselves and running a marathon and supporting early detection education, which is amazing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I love it. You are sitting in the office?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> I am.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re in Boston.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> We are about 35 minutes west of Boston.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> West. Tell us about your staff, your founder, and your board.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Our founder, Joe Coghlin and his family. It is a good story. Jim, his best friend, Mark Ungerer. Jim said, “He is my best friend, second only to my wife.” How romantic, right? Mark lost his son at the age of 15 to leukemia. Mark, as a lasting legacy to his son, started a successful golf tournament. He funded research to help continue to find cures for leukemia. Mark, years after this tournament started, said to Jim, “If something ever happens to me, would you keep this going?” Jim said, “Of course, I will, but you’ll outlive me.” Unfortunately, shortly after that, Mark died. Jim had a commitment to this tournament. He continued to fund the research. He is a very successful businessman. He decided to check out the ROI. For all the funds that were being put into research, what was the outcome? As a result of some of that work, he found this statistic, which showed that there had been an issue around delayed diagnosis and the impact of delayed diagnosis on cancer survival rates. Once he found that and recognized that nobody was focused on it, he met with a family and said, “This is a calling. We can’t let this be. We have to do something about it.” That’s how 15-40 was founded about eight years ago.</p> <p>We have an active board. We just had a board meeting last night. We have eight members at this point. We are actively pursuing additional board members as we scale and build new curriculum. Our staff has eight people who work across all categories: development, marketing, education, outreach to support the mission and to scale the mission.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is music to our ears, isn’t it, Russ? Russell and I reframe the word “consultant” to “WayFinder.” We don’t give people fish; we teach them how to fish. We work with many nonprofits, and boards are not as active as they ought to be. Russell’s specialty is funding. We think about donors and grants, but there are six more streams of funding. It sounds like you have a good thing going, a really solid platform. How many people like you in the office? There is nobody like you, but how many others?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> There is eight total people who work in the office each day. A lot of us are out of the office because our education is we are out in schools, in corporate wellness, on college campuses. We are spread all over. There is eight total in the moment.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Do they all wear black furs to work?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Exactly. This is to celebrate our 12 Days of Early Detection. I wore a fancy jacket so that I could sing. Stay tuned. Watch our Facebook page.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You are going to sing. Your Facebook page is 1540 Connection. Twitter is @1540connection. YouTube is The1540Connection. Instagram is 1540connection. No hyphen. Just written out.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Each day, we will post. Everybody is singing a day of early detection.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. That is clever. Russell, we are on the last stretch of our interview. I bet you got some observations and closing questions for Kelly.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I love the fact that everybody is cross-trained and understands everybody’s function and role and taking that responsibility onto yourselves. It’s marvelous. Spreading the wealth and spreading the joy. I love what you’re doing. I’d be interested to know more about your Train the Trainer process. That is something that should be spread beyond Boston. I think it should be spread around the country so that people understand what they are looking at.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Because of technology, we were able to do a Train the Trainer in Florida. We are national. Our feet on the street is here in Boston, so we have deeper traction here. We are definitely moving across the Mississippi and trying to hit all four corners and the center of the U.S. and make sure everybody gets the education.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> One of your tabs says Get Involved. If people are not in Boston, how do they get involved?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> So many ways. You can get involved through social media. You can share our story with your network. You can bring our education through your schools or corporations. You can also sign up for Train the Trainer. You can bring us to your college campus. It really is endless. All the opportunities are posted there. There is also an email capability to tell us what you’re thinking. We are nimble, so we are constantly looking for new ideas. We welcome all ideas.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Amazing. So Kelly, as we wrap up here, is there something we haven’t covered that you want to share? What parting thought do you have to leave with our listeners?</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> As our founder says, “Health is wealth.” At the end of the day, if you are not healthy, everything is a struggle. We have the capacity to get well. Most people can access a doctor or a hospital. Taking the extra time to do that if something changes in your health can be a life-saving decision. Our founder says often, “Don’t be selfish. Think about all the people who love you. If you make this decision and you are negatively impacted as a result, they are, too.” That is a strong statement. It’s not just about you. It’s about everybody around you. I have young kids. I am being wheeled into the hospital with a ten- and eight-year-old. That is not an easy pill to swallow. You want to come out and make sure that you are there for them. I think that is the key component of all of this. Make it a priority because at the end of the day, nothing else matters. If you don’t have your health, the rest is not going to happen.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Amazing. Russell, those are good words, aren’t they?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> They are wonderful. Thank you for making this information available to a lot of people. It’s a worthwhile cause. Access to information and resources is critical, especially in today’s climate of rising costs. The thing that I would say to people as a closing thought if you got some things going on and you are stopping to think, Well, I don’t know if I have the money or the resources to pay for it, I will point out that I have never seen a U-Haul behind a hearse. Dead people don’t pay bills.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Kelly, thank you for making time. I know you have a lot of things to do. Thank you for sharing your story with all of our listeners.</p> <p><strong>Kelly:</strong> Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Nonprofits that Work: Rise Against Hunger (Founded as Stop Hunger Now)</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofits-that-work-rise-against-hunger-founded-as-stop-hunger-now</link>
      <description>Ray Buchanan: A vision to end world hunger 
 In 1998, envisioning a world without hunger, Ray Buchanan — a United Methodist minister — founded Rise Against Hunger (formerly Stop Hunger Now). After enlisting as a U.S. Marine during the Vietnam War, Ray Buchanan quickly recognized that accomplishing a mission required “commitment to something larger than yourself.” Over the past three decades, that principle has driven Ray’s mission to eradicate world hunger.
 As a divinity graduate student at Duke University, Ray began working with the poor and hungry. He continued that work at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, where he received his master’s degree in divinity, and as a pastor at ve rural United Methodist churches in Virginia. As a pastor, Ray joined the effort to save the lives of starving Ethiopians during the 1973-75 famine in Ethiopia.
 Driving Ray’s hunger work is the recognition that “ending hunger is more than just feeding people.” So Rise Against Hunger “focuses its feeding programs in areas where we can see transformational development,” he says.
 Ray embodies the ideal of a servant leader. And he understands that volunteers and organizations working together can build a global movement that will stimulate the political will to marshal the resources that are essential — and available — to eradicate hunger.
 Rise Against Hunger has realized positive, annual growth mainly through expansion of the meal packaging program into new communities. Rise Against Hunger continues to further Ray’s legacy of commitment both to domestic and international crisis response including relief from famine, natural and manmade disasters and health epidemics.
 More information at www.riseagainsthunger.org
 The Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. This episode of The Nonprofit Exchange is great, like every one of them, but this one is a new friend who is right here in Lynchburg, Virginia. He has an extensive history of founding charities and taking them not just to the next level, but taking them to the top. In some cases, over the top.
 Ray Buchanan: Over the top would be a good way to put it.
 Hugh: Ray Buchanan. We are going to talk principally about a charity you formed that you originally called Stop Hunger Now. Now it’s Rise Against Hunger. I want to let you tell a little bit about yourself. You had an idea about something. How did you put it together and start this, get people on board, and get it funded? There is a lot of people with ideas, and they don’t really understand the sequence and how to put it together. Tell us about Ray. Thank you for being on The Nonprofit Exchange today.
 Ray: Good to be here. I appreciate the opportunity. I was in the Marine Corps during Vietnam. Came out of the Marine Corps. Did all my undergraduate work in about two and a half years. I then had a mentor who saw more in me than I thought was there. He said, “Where are you going to go to get your divinity degree?” I said, “I hadn’t thought about it.” He said, “You need to go to Duke.” I said, “Riiight.” I literally thought he was kidding, but he knew people who knew people and I found myself at Duke.
 I immediately felt like I was way out of my league. I looked at all these young people coming in the first day of class, and I said, “I don’t belong here.” What happened was very interesting. I stood in the corner of the student center of the divinity school, and I saw somebody come in the door who looked as miserable as I felt. He was about my age, older than the normal incoming divinity school student. We hooked up, and he had military experience, been to Vietnam as well. We started talking, and pretty soon another older student came in. The three of us gravitated together.
 What happened was that first semester at Duke, we became a support group. We didn’t know that’s what it was, but we were all married and had at least one child. In the course of that semester, we became best friends, closer than friends, and a support group like I said. We started in January. During the summer, of course we all wanted to pastor churches. According to the Methodist church, they had no churches available in North Carolina around Duke. I had the choice, and I chose doing beach ministry in Atlantic Beach, North Carolina. That sounds like a real cool gig, but we did most of our work with runaways and drug culture between one and two o’clock in the morning. I had a safe house for folks.
 One of our other friends served a small church in Raleigh. Ken, the first person I saw, came from Virginia. His superintendent needed pastors badly. He already had a church promised to him. He talked to his superintendent, and he said, “You have friends that might serve churches?” The process was so far along that we didn’t get to visit, but he called. I learned my first lesson of humility. He asked me who I was and what I wanted, so I told him I’d been a youth minister in a larger church in North Carolina when I was in college. I had experiences as a chaplain’s assistant. I really pumped myself up the way you would to a boss. He said, “I haven’t been able to get up with your other friend. What kind of experience does he have?” I said, “He’s a really nice guy. He doesn’t really have as much experience as me, but he is really committed. He has a heart for the Lord, but he just hasn’t had the experience.” The superintendent without missing a beat said, “Well, that is his subtlety. You obviously have much more experience. I’ll give you the five churches, and I’ll give him the four churches.” I learned real quick you don’t need to do that.
 I started there because that is really the start of the journey we are talking about. The three of us were appointed to churches in rural Virginia, the south side of Virginia. We were right outside of South Hill. Between us we had 13 rural churches.
 Hugh: Oh, wow.
 Ray: And we were going to school fulltime, commuting an hour and a half one way. We learned really quickly about supporting one another. We learned that each one of us had gifts and graces that matched with the others. Where I was weak, my friend was strong. Where he was weak, our other friend was strong. Rather than compete, we decided we would work as a team. With those 13 churches, they were all small, struggling, had that feeling that many small Methodist churches have, that they weren’t ministering. They were surviving. We decided to change that. For the four years that we were there, we made sure we worked as a cooperative parish. We weren’t ever legally called that, but we had our churches go together. I remember the first thing we did is we gathered clothes for Appalachia. They had never been able to do anything as one or two churches, but as 13 churches, we filled a huge U-Haul truck. The men took it to Appalachia, and it made them feel so empowered to be able to do something.
 Hugh: As you’re talking about that, that is a group of churches. The same thing could apply to a group of small charities.
 Ray: Absolutely. One of the key philosophies that I have always worked with is everything is built on partnerships. The more partners you could have involved, the stronger the program is. I’m not saying it’s easier, but it really impacts more people, not only from the relief side, but also from the folks doing it.
 A key principle in what helps grow the organizations I have been a part of is we always seek partnerships. One example is with Rise Against Hunger, when I started, I knew nothing about international relief work. I had been doing domestic relief work for 20 years, and I’ve done a few things internationally. But how you work internationally is something I had to learn on the job. One thing I committed to was I was not going to start offices internationally because internationally, every place I wanted to work, there were already relief organizations on the ground. I didn’t need to reinvent the wheel. I just needed to partner with the folks already there who had a better idea of what was necessary.
 Hugh: I won’t let that one slip by. You’re really understanding the synergy of collaboration. Let’s do more stuff than we can do by ourselves. What year was that?
 Ray: I started Rise Against Hunger in January of 1998. What had happened was earlier than that,
 Society had a program called The Potato Project. That is the story of God’s grace. Basically, Society of St. Andrew was an intentional community devoted to covenant living. What that means is in response to world hunger, we said we wanted to come together and demonstrate a lifestyle that the entire world could adopt, a just lifestyle, a fair lifestyle. We had two families that moved together onto a farm. We formed a covenant to live under the poverty level. When we started in 1979, that was about $2,000 a person.
 Hugh: Oh my goodness.
 Ray: If you put all the stuff in the world in a pile and everybody took a fair share, in 1979, it would come to about $2,000 a person. We made a covenant that we would live under that. We had nine people in our community: four adults and five kids. We said we would live under $18,000 a year. We never made it up to $18,000 a year. Basically, we lived under the poverty level out of choice, and we wanted to do that not only to identify with the poor, but also to demonstrate to the church especially that if we wanted to, we could live in a way that the entire world would be able to have a fair share.
 Hugh: The year you founded this organization was 1979. It was founded as Stop Hunger Now.
 Ray: The first organization was founded as Society of St. Andrew. I was the co-director of that from 1979-1998. In 1998, the reason I left Society of St. Andrew is because after 15 years or so, both my co-director and I were getting burned out. You start out with your hands working with the poor, shoulder to shoulder, but as the organization gets bigger and bigger, you get further away from the poor. We worked with the poor. Then we had staff that worked with the poor. Then we had managers. Then we had directors of the managers. All of a sudden, you look around and you have 70-80 employees in five or six states. You are so far you can’t even see the poor. I started using my vacation time to go internationally to work in Africa and what have you so I could still get my hands dirty.
 Hugh: That’s interesting. You get so far away from the work that is your passion. You get sucked in to the organization. There is a lesson in that, too.
 Ray: Absolutely.
 Hugh: When did you found this organization that is now Rise Against Hunger?
 Ray: 1998.
 Hugh: And it was founded as Stop Hunger Now.
 Ray: Yes, it was founded as Stop Hunger Now. The reason the name is important, the reason I founded it is because I did my work internationally, it hit me that although hunger in the United States is real and it’s horrible and it’s immoral, the richest country in the history of the world, that we have hunger doesn’t make sense. The Christian church has to understand its responsibility there. As I worked internationally, there were opportunities that started to rise in doing stuff internationally. My passions fairly quickly turned to doing international work because although hunger is real in the United States, it’s qualitatively different than hunger around the world. In the United States, no one dies of hunger. I challenge you to find a newspaper article that talks about the last time anyone died of hunger. They might have died of exposure or something, but it is such a rarity that it is not measurable. You go international, and after all these years, we have hunger down to 20,000 people a day.
 Hugh: A day.
 Ray: But when I started, it was like 30,000 people a day dying of hunger. There is no way to explain that. I have always wanted to have the biggest impact. So I started focusing internationally, and my partner, after you work together with somebody for 20 years, you know each other. He looked at me and said, “If you need money for that, you raise it. We don’t have money for that.” At that time, Society of St. Andrew was doing $15 or 20 million worth of in-can work, and our cash budget was $1 or $1.5 million a year. We never had enough money. That is how Stop Hunger got started because I needed to raise $25,000 for a special project. I didn’t have it. After my partner said, “Well, if you want it, you raise it,” which was the way we worked, I remembered that five years earlier, a donor had come to us, he and his wife. We had an office in a sheep shed. They came and sat around the table and said they wanted to help feed the hungry. His vision of hunger was a starving child with a bowl held up. At that point, my partner and I said, “We don’t do that.” We didn’t. We worked in the United States, using tractor trailers to haul produce to food banks on Native American reservations. We told him we really appreciate the offer, but that is not what we do. It’s not a good match. But we have a friend who is chairman of the board of Food for the Hungry. We will give you his name, and you can connect. We broke the cardinal rule of you never give a donor away. We gave this donor away before we ever started working with him. Strange thing though. Every year, he would call us and say, “Do you have any special projects?” We’d say yes. He’d say, “Send me the bill.” For about $8-10,000. He would never give us a grant. He would never write us a check. But he would always give us a gift of about $10,000 by paying a certain bill. I remembered his vision.
 After five years, I went to our Director of Development and called him and said, “Give me this guy’s name and number.” He said, “Let’s meet.” I went to Virginia Beach, and we had lunch. I’ll never forget. The timing was amazing. I drove from the big island, and he drove a couple of blocks and we got there at the same time. We met in the parking lot and walked into the restaurant. He said, “How are things going?” making small talk. I said, “Great. My daughter is having her first child.” He said, “Oh, you’re going to be a grandfather for the first time?” The proper answer would be, “Of course I am. Yes, that’s great.” I said, “No. When my son turned 21, he got a girl pregnant, so I have a grandson.” I said, Shut up, shut up, this is not the way you speak, shut up. It was like I had verbal diarrhea. We get in, and the maître d’ seats us. He comes back and starts to speak. John waves his hands, saying, “No.” He leans across the table and he says, “Ray, last year was the worst year of my life. I went from being a millionaire to not being a millionaire. I got kicked out of my own organization that I started. My wife divorced me. My son had to get staggering drunk to tell me that he had gotten a young lady pregnant.”
 Hugh: Oh my goodness.
 Ray: This is before the menus get there. All that is simply to say we were on a level that you normally don’t get to with a donor until you’ve cultivated them for years. That is how Stop Hunger Now got started to be honest.
 Hugh: We are recording live on Facebook. If you come by and wonder what this is, this is the Nonprofit Exchange. Every Tuesday at 2 EST, we talk with a thought leader about how they have made things happen. We are talking to Ray Buchanan about multiple charities he has founded. Ray, I have moved from using the word “nonprofit” a lot even though this is the Nonprofit Exchange. When I am in conversation, I use the word charity because we have tax-exempt charities. It’s a business and a framework that has got a lot of rules and regulations for the IRS. My co-host, Russell, used to work for the IRS. He is very much up to date with how we need to comply with those. We need to have strong business principles. If you are listening to the podcast sometime in history, you can ask questions on the podcast page. We learn from other people’s stories. Ray, when you are looking back and talking about starting these, Russell was just meeting with a gentleman that has got a hunger project. This is quite an amazing story, Russell, about Ray starting what was called Stop Hunger Now. Now it’s called Rise Against Hunger. You had an idea. How hard was it to get it off the ground? How hard was it to get people to support it? How hard was it to get some funding?
 Ray: I want to say one of the first things that was my first organization, Society of St. Andrew, what made that successful is that when we started our first big project after three years, we fell into the Potato Project, which has taken unused produce otherwise thrown away, wasted. We were going to get that to the hungry across Virginia. The farmers agreed to give us the produce, but they had to get their money recouped on the extra labor, the bags, and the transportation. I could tell you a lot of funny stories about that. Long story short, they could get us potatoes that would normally be thrown away for three cents a pound, a phenomenal price. They said they could get us a million pounds of potatoes. A million pounds of potatoes at three cents a pound is $30,000. At that point, our two families were living on between $12-15,000 a year. That was all the money in the world. That first $30,000 came from the United Methodist Church seeing the vision and buying into the vision. I could talk for hours about the faithfulness in that because at that point, we were seen as a couple of hippies living on a farm. We weren’t the bare-faced young guys. But they had enough faith to put the money into it.
 Once that project started, we had never realized that we were just scratching the surface. Farmers wanted to give us more and more produce, which required more money and more distribution areas, which required more transportation. Literally within two months, we were spending $30,000 to last us this summer, and after about a month and a half, we were out of money. It hadn’t been misused, but the need was so great. We started having to raise money. The first thing we did was my partner’s brother who had a business degree came to us and said, “You all need somebody to fund this.” Both of us understood that numbers are not my friends. I will be honest with you. I like letters. You can make words with letters, and words make sentences. Numbers are just numbers. We asked his brother to help us, and he graciously helped us. From day one, we ran the organization as a business.
 Hugh: From day one.
 Ray: From day one. That is one of the biggest benchmarks that I can point to as to why it worked. We didn’t operate as a church. That sounds very horrible, but it’s true. We operated as a business, not only in that the finances were handled to the penny. I can literally remember Friday evening at 6:00 realizing that David was still in the office. We operated in a sheep shed that previously held sheep in it. I would see the light on and say, “David, what are you doing?” “I can’t get the books to balance.” I said, “What is it?” He said, “It’s 27 cents. I cannot find it.” I said, “Here is a quarter.” He said, “Noooo, you don’t understand.” That is the way we operated financially from day one, but we also realized that when we made a promise, it was a commitment. Unlike a lot of charities, church organizations, nonprofits, it was like, We will not get to it if we can when we can. If we said we were going to do something, we did it. The operating as a business is a key principle that every nonprofit ought to operate by.
 Hugh: Hey Russell, we teach this stuff. It works. How about that?
 Russell: The sweet spot is where fun and compliance and compassion come together. That’s what I call the sweet spot. 27 cents by the way is not material if you have more than five dollars.
 Ray: I understand that. But the principle is the same.
 Russell: The principle is the same. It’s like operating a business without losing who you are. If you have a mission and the mission is spiritual, you don’t have to lose that. There is a point in there where money and spirituality mix. It’s just understanding both the critical components to what you’re doing so that you don’t leave either out to the exclusion. They are not mutually exclusive in other words.
 Ray: Absolutely. To jump forward, when I started Stop Hunger Now, basically I met with this donor. I was asking him for $25,000. He had been giving us $10,000 a year for five years. When I got to the point where he said, “What do you really want?” and I told him I needed $25,000 to move three containers of food to North Korea and Africa, he said, “Fine, I’ll write you a check Monday.” Any time you can take a donor from $10,000 to $25,0000, you know that is a home run. I was just going internally like Yes! I couldn’t wait to go home and work out the logistics.
 He lookrd across the table and said, “Tell me, you said you were burned out and were thinking about leaving the organization a couple years earlier. What is it that you really want?” Not trying to be flip, but I said, “I want to feed more hungry people.” He is not the kind of man who accepts an answer like that. He said, “I asked you a serious question. Give me a serious answer.” I had to take a deep breath. I answered him, “What I’d really like to do is go to crisis areas around the world, find out what the real need is, come home, and cut through all the red tape and BS and get that need met as fast as possible.” He leaned across the table and said, “That’s exactly my dream, with one exception.” I said, “What is that?” He said, “I’d want you to take the checkbook with you.” We finished the meeting.
 As we are getting in our cars, he looked at me and said, “Let’s see if we can’t make our dreams come true.” Two days later, he called and said, “How soon can the head of my foundation and I meet with you and your partner in Big Island?”
 Two days after that, four days after our original meeting, they were in our office. Both my partner and I knew what he wanted: to set up an international relief hunger organization. My partner and our wives and I have nonstop been figuring out how to make it work. At that point, Society of St. Andrew had an 18-year track record. We were known throughout the United Methodist Church, working in all 48 contiguous states, constantly went up to the Hill to give testimony on hunger and gleaning. I was on the House Select committee and a bunch of stuff like that. We said, “Oh, good, we are going to have a domestic arm and an international arm.” We presented that to him as what we were going to do. He looked at us and crossed his arms and said, “Nope, I’m not interested.” We were crushed. We thought we had this perfect plan. He said, “Look, you are a domestic hunger organization. Your board is always going to fight over who gets the money. Here is what I’ll do. I’ll give you a quarter of a million dollars a year for two years. Three conditions. 1) You set up a new organization. 2) You set up a completely separate board of directors. 3) You are the director,” pointing at me.
 Hugh: Oh.
 Ray: Now, what do you do when you’re 50 years old and somebody looks at you and says, “I will make your dreams come true?”
 Hugh: Oh my.
 Ray: That is so exciting. But if you look at the flip side of it, we had an organization that we had started as two families living under the poverty level and was now at the pinnacle of our ministry. Like I said, we are at Capitol Hill every month. Our senator’s wife was on our board. It was a horse you could ride until you wanted to get off. It was only going to get bigger and better. You leave that to start over basically. You leave that. The four adults that founded this society prayed together and cried together and discussed for two to three days. We came to the conclusion that if we didn’t take his offer, that money was not going to be there. To get to a place where we could do the international ministry that we wanted would take us a couple of years to raise another quarter of a million dollars because we had maxed out our fundraising capacity at that point. We knew that it would take us a year or two to ramp up if we could. We thought we would take his offer because we could do more good faster by doing that than any other way we could.
 I left Society of St. Andrew at that point to take over and start a new organization. That is how Stop Hunger Now got started. I started January 1, 1998 with a guaranteed $2,500. Show you how simple I am. I had two goals for 1998 for Stop Hunger Now. I wanted to do at least a half a million dollars’ worth of ministry. I wanted to double his gift of $250,000. Secondly, I wanted to be in five or six countries. I didn’t want to be a single country nonprofit. At the end of the first year, we were audited, and the audit showed that we had done $2.9 million worth of aid in 18 countries. That was the start of Stop Hunger Now.
 The name is very significant because Society of St. Andrew, my first organization, was named for the disciple Andrew. He was always introducing others to Jesus one at a time, “Here is my friend.” We like that kind of evangelism. More importantly, he was the disciple that knew about the boy with the loaves and fishes when Jesus fed the 5,000. Very significant spiritually. As we grew, we had focus groups and consultants come in. The first thing every group said, “That is the most horrible name you could have picked. There is no worse name.” Society of St. Andrew: Is that a Presbyterian program? Is it a Catholic program? Is it an Episcopal program? Is it a golfing group? It says nothing about what you do. I learned that. When I started my own organization, Stop Hunger Now, our mission and our ministry were identical. Nobody ever asked what do you do.
 Hugh: Why the change from Stop Hunger Now to Rise Against Hunger?
 Ray: We rebranded this year because as we grew, we realized that Sodexo has their foundation called Stop Hunger. Dozens of times, we tried to work with them to get the trademark Stop Hunger Now, and their lawyer said it’s too close. For 12 years or 15 years, we worked side by side, no problems, but as our program expanded internationally and we started doing more programs outside the U.S., we bumped up against Sodexo in England, where they didn’t want our brand in England for some reason. Our board looked at it and realized we had to get a trademark name. As we started looking at marks, we couldn’t even get the mark that we had. We had to start from scratch to rebrand.
 Hugh: It’s really good to have that clarity. Your brand tells people what you do. If there is confusion, people don’t want to help you. Russell, I know your brain is going with this funding thing. Russell teaches charities how to attract funding. He is one of our WayFinders in SynerVision. We are talking about Ray joining the WayFinder team. I didn’t tell him about the initiation process.
 Ray: I don’t have a lot of hair to shave.
 Russell: There is full heads of hair, and there is perfect ones like this.
 Ray: That’s right.
 Russell: You don’t need to dress this up.
 Ray: I hear ya. I hear ya.
 Hugh: Russell, did you come from- You got this striped shirt on. Did you come from a ball game where you are refereeing, or were you on the work cam for the prison?
 Russell: Rocks from Little Rocks all morning long.
 Hugh: Russell, you are listening to this story like I am. I am thinking like this is a fairytale story. How do these people come along?
 This is one of our colleagues in Denver. You are real popular.
 Russell: I am just a party waiting to happen here.
 Hugh: I know. As you are listening to his story, how many charities have we worked with over the years that really struggled to get somebody to believe in them to help them get some funding? There must be something that worked with your tenacity, your language, or something. Russell, what are you hearing? What question do you have for Ray about this early stage and the funding piece together and then getting the right team?
 Russell: That is a perfect illustration of what we talk about when we talk about why you are doing what it is that you’re doing. Or do you want to get out of it? That is a perfect illustration of how important that is because that is exactly what happened to Ray. When somebody brings that horse to you and says, “Here is the gift horse. You don’t quibble over what you call it. You just say thank you and move on.” There is a lot of fear involved with that. But you took the bull by the horns and went on and did what it was that you thought you needed to do. Focus on the fact that the mission is important. This is big. This is something that is bigger than me. I have to go here and do this. Here it is. Face that fear and go ahead and do it anyway. Talk with people and find out what is important to them. You were able to speak their language, and that is why they partnered with you. When you talk to people, it’s important to use language that is important to them and that they value and move from that standpoint.
 Let’s talk about that a little bit, Ray. I’m sure there were some doubts or some voices come up. We have our critics. We have our itty bitty committee, and I throw something a little extra in. This is PG-13. I will not throw the extra word in there. Itty bitty committee that comes calling when you go to brass that dream and you go to take it a step further. Talk about how you handle some of those conversations that were going on in your head and push through them to reach for the bigger goal.
 Ray: It’s interesting that you say that because I tell friends that Stop Hunger Now started in January 1998. We knew about it from the end of August. That was when the donor made the decision to move forward. September through March, that six-month period, was probably the period where I was most frightened in my whole life because I had always worked with a partner, worked as a team ministry. We had gotten very successful with what we were doing. We fulfilled all our commitments and were just growing. I was getting ready to leap out into an area I basically knew nothing about with no support network behind me. I was so frightened, but I realized after I did it, I was thinking it was like leaping across the Grand Canyon. Actually, it was just like stepping off a curb. It was just a change. It was nothing great.
 What helped me was what I’d learned with my first organization: People honor results. The people allowed us to do the Potato Project because they had seen us living for three years according to a basic lifestyle of justice. Being just and living that out gave us a platform to do the domestic hunger. Doing the domestic hunger piece for 18 years said that yes, we can fulfill what we promised. When I started Stop Hunger Now, that first year, we were able to make some huge accomplishments again through the grace of God. But for example, my first trip in January of 1998, I went to Nicaragua, Honduras, and Haiti because those are the three poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere. During those trips, I made partnerships and started putting the protocols in place to help some organizations. All of a sudden, in August of that year, we had Hurricane Mitch, one of the biggest hurricanes that hit Central America. Because I had worked with these folks and I had the protocols in place, I was able to get them funds that allowed them to be the first organizations in Honduras for example to actually make a difference for the hungry.
 When people see that you’re actually making a difference, they want to be a part of that. People are hungry to help. The biggest difficulty that I’ve seen is they don’t know how. If you can demonstrate that your organization really makes a difference, you will not have difficulty finding funding most of the time.
 Hugh: If you go out there and knock on doors.
 Ray: If you go out there and knock on doors to start with. It’s always the case that when you need money the most, it’s the hardest to get. When you get to a place where you have grown the organization where money is not that difficult to come by, it flows in. That has always been my understanding. I will say that in the early days, my first organization, Society of St. Andrew, when we started the Potato Project and started spending money, it was $1,000 a month, then it was $1,000 a week. We literally had the capacity to spend ourselves out of existence in any two-day period that we decided to move enough produce. Went to D.C. and talked with a lady at a project where we were helping. We were getting potatoes for her. She said, “I know a man that might want to help you. Let me give you his phone number. He likes organizations like yours, so he will probably give you $1,000.” And $1,000 was wonderful for us.
 I called the number. It was a business number. He never had come in by 11:00, and he always left by 1:00. Literally for over a week, I couldn’t get up with him. I finally asked the administrative person, “I’m sorry, but I really need to talk to this gentleman. Is there any way I can get ahold of him?” She said, “Let me give you his home phone.” I called his home phone for a week and never got up with him. We were panicked, and the need for money was so great we were at a loss. I called the secretary back and she said, “Oh, I gave you his bedroom number. Let me give you his den number.”
 The first time I called this young man, and he was a young man, he answered. I told him who I was and what we were doing. He said, “Oh man, that is so cool. I like that. Could you use $10,000?” I was hoping for $1,000. I said, “Yeah.” He said, “Let me talk to my dad, and we will put it through the foundation. We will give you $10,000.” With just a letter, I sent him a letter request. He gave us $10,000. Then they gave us another $10,000, and another $10,000. That was $30,000 over the course of two months with never meeting him, just a letter. I kept trying to meet him to take him to lunch and get to know him and cultivate him. He said, “Man, I don’t do the lunch thing.” I said, “Fine.” One time I knew I was going to be in D.C, and I told him, “I would love to come see you.” He said, “Come up to the house, and we’ll talk.”
 I came up to the house, and this was a young guy who had been involved in the drug culture. It had affected him quite a bit. He had a huge mudbog truck taller than I was. We spent about four hours together just getting to know each other. He fixed us ham sandwiches in the kitchen. Just a really nice young man who is really trying to find himself. I mean, he had a good heart and never talked about money the whole time.
 As I was getting ready to leave, he reached into his back pocket and gave me an envelope. “We have been giving you money from the foundation. This is from my personal account. I am sorry it isn’t more than it is, but I’ve been burning through the money a lot faster than I thought. My accountant said he was surprised I had any left in the account at all. This is all I can do. I believe in what you’re doing.” Well, I thanked him profusely of course and put the money in the car.
 I got in the car and drove out to the edge of the driveway. It is a long driveway outside of D.C. I couldn’t stand it. I wasn’t going to go on the road home until I looked in the envelope and saw a check for $43,500 from his personal account. The reason that is significant is that $43,000 got us through the next three weeks at which time the United Methodist Committee on Relief gave us a grant for $100,000. You just never know how you cultivate donors. I want to say if you’re faithful in doing what your passion calls you to do and you communicate that openly to your donors, they will respond.
 Hugh: That is a big “and.” A lot of people don’t connect those dotted lines, do they, Russ?
 Russell: That’s that fourth piece of the four steps to building a high-performance nonprofit is communicating that value that you bring. The language is a little different for different people, but it’s about relationships. You communicate that. That is very important. It’s critical. It’s actually being able to go out there, understanding what your core is, and communicating those values. They may not be for everybody, but you go out there and you do it and you make those critical connections. That’s what it’s all about. It’s about relationships.
 I was just thinking because that is an example of one donor, but you have different people who volunteer, different people come to work. What are some of the things when people say, “Why do you work with Rise Against Hunger?” What are some of the reasons that people will give? When you understand that, you can communicate that. I am going to put that question to you, Ray, because you have all these relationships you have built, whether it’s a staff member or a volunteer. What are some of the things people are saying when the question, “Why do you work with Rise Against Hunger?” comes up?
 Ray: We get the same answer all the time. We engage about a quarter of a million to 350,000 volunteers a year now. We engage them to a meal packaging program that allows- It’s an inter-generational program that lasts two hours where volunteers package high-protein dehydrated meals for school feeding programs internationally. It is a beautiful entrance into making a difference on hunger. We get the same responses every time we ask people. We don’t usually have to ask them. First of all, they say it’s so much fun. We can make a difference. We are having an impact. They can see the connection between their hands and their heart. It’s one thing to write a check and for some people that’s exactly what they need. More and more people in the millennial generation want to be physically involved in what they are committing themselves to. Giving volunteers a chance to be involved makes all the difference in the world.
 The same thing is true for boards. I am passionate about growing boards because a high-powered, high-impact board really empowers an organization to reach the next level. It’s the same for every level of volunteering. Giving people a chance to make a difference where they can see it and feel it makes all the difference in the world. People come back time and time again to our events because not only are they interacting with other people and having a good time, but they also know when they put those meals in the box, the next time that box is opened, it will be at a school somewhere where the kids would not be able to come to school without those meals. They know they are transforming lives. That is so important.
 Hugh: You sort of understanding the fun part of that. My church in Blacksburg did this. In two hours, how many pounds of food do we package?
 Ray: You probably package 10,000 meals.
 Hugh: 10,000 meals we packaged in two hours. They have an area director that comes in and tells people all the resources there, the boxes, the gloves. It is a very sanitary process. It’s like an energy field where we are doing stuff, and it’s like a church social event. It’s like games. Like games for families at church. This is far better. We are doing something worthwhile. It is really an energized process where people package. They tell us exactly what is going to happen to it. We put it in those boxes. We take it out, it goes into a truck. Whoosh. It’s gone. I was very impressed with the organization. It’s like turnkey, boom.
 Ray: That is part of the secret. The turnkey part of it. The thing is, the more people you have involved in this process, the more fun it becomes. We have done events. One of my favorite events was done in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. We had one university with four campuses. They packaged a million meals in seven hours using 4,000 students in four locations. It was just awesome. It was electric. We do million meal events all the time.
 One of the most exciting events I have done recently was February a year ago when Kraft Heinz merged. They brought all their senior leaders from around the world together for their first gathering. They asked Rise Against Hunger to come and do a team building event by packaging meals. They wanted to package a tractor trailer load of meals, 285,000 meals. They wanted to do it in two hours. They had roughly 900-1,000 employees from around the world. Not employees, leaders. These are senior leaders. They came, and this was to merge the Kraft people and the Heinz people together. They had such a blast. The CEO of Kraft-Heinz was in there among them going from table to table, talking about what they were accomplishing. They are one of our biggest corporate partners now. They were then as well. The energy in the room, when you can have that many people working on the same thing, interacting with people you normally wouldn’t interact with, it’s magic.
 Hugh: What is the website where people can go find out about this?
 Ray: Riseagainsthunger.org.
 Hugh: Riseagainsthunger. It will be listed in the podcast notes and TheNonProfitExchangeorg. It is listed there along with your pretty picture. We will work the logo as well.
 The story about getting started is pretty dramatic. I will fund if you start a nrw organization. Talk about it today. How many countries, how many pounds of food, how much reach?
 Ray: We started in 1998. For the first seven years, we were a crisis relief organization. I was in the Marines, so I am being comfortable being in sketchy situations. We focused on getting into areas where the larger organizations either couldn’t go, wouldn’t go. We were a fast operation. I mean we would go in faster than most organizations and make stuff happen. I always wanted to move away from crisis relief into a more sustainable attack on hunger. Our original board donor who gave me all the money was not interested in that. His idea of feeding the hungry was crisis relief only. After about seven years, we had some board transition and a lot of other stuff. It was about that time where the Christmas tsunami hit. I found an organization that was doing meal packaging. I came back from visiting with them and said we are going to do this. That time, I had three staff people. We are going to start this in two months. They all laughed at me. We were able to get it started in two months. The first year, we started meal packaging, we meal packaged 1.1 million meals. The second year was 3.1. This year, we will package 75 million meals for the hungry.
 Hugh: 75 million from the start of 1.1 million.
 Ray: Yes.
 Hugh: My goodness.
 Ray: Now we have offices in 20 cities in the United States. We now have offices in five countries. I always said I didn’t want to raise a flag in other countries. We didn’t do that until we absolutely had to. What I mean by that is we don’t set up offices in countries to distribute meals. But implementing partners that do that well, they know what they’re doing. So many countries came to us and said, “We want to package meals and engage volunteers in our country.” South Africa was the first. We looked around, and South Africa had all the resources necessary to package meals. We started working in South Africa. Then Malaysia, the Philippines, Italy. We have a list of six or seven countries that want us to come in and start offices. But we are very careful about going and starting offices. They have to have all the resources available, and it has to be a wonderful thing. South Africa for example, they will package 8 or 9 million meals this year themselves. But what they have done is they have talked to the United States so much. This is the fun part about when you have work as partners.
 The situation in South Africa is completely different than the United States. They have lots of volunteers, but no funding. The churches in South Africa don’t have a financial base. They had to start going to corporate donors where we weren’t using corporate donors in the United States so much. The corporations got behind what they were doing and gave significant amounts of funds. We went to school and said, “If they are doing it, why don’t we work on that?” Our corporate income has grown by over 70% because we went to school with what South Africa was doing. We learn from each other that way.
 In the Philippines, our office there said we use dehydrated vegetables in our meals. Rather than buy those on the market, why don’t we get farmers to grow them so they can have a sustainable livelihood? They have cooperative farms where the farmers know that when they grow these vegetables, they will be bought at a fair price. Now they are getting the production ready to where these can be dehydrated, which will employ more people. They have the value chain from growing the vegetables to putting them in the meals. Employing lots of people. In India, they are doing other things.
 Every country operates as its own entity. In fact, I just came back from the Philippines a couple month ago where we had our first strategic global gathering where we are trying to figure out how to operate as a more global organization rather than the U.S. and affiliates. I can’t say enough about the board in the United States willing to look at that and say, “We can be one among equals rather than being paternalistic about it.” It’s a huge sea change, but it’s fun to see that happening. Never envisioned when I stepped out and started Rise Against Hunger, we had probably 148 employees in the United States in five countries. It keeps growing because it’s doing what it says it needs to do.
 Hugh: We are hitting our last five minutes in a wrap here. Russ, do you have some comments or questions for our guest today?
 Russell: Innovate and collaborate. That is the name of the game. That’s what you are doing. You can spread the impact. The sum is more powerful than the parts. It’s an ideal model. That’s what high performance nonprofits do. I commend you on that. You are doing a remarkable job. What is the big goal for 2018? What is the takeaway? What is the impact that you want to bring in 2018?
 Ray: Probably, we are in our strategic planning process now. We have just gone from one year budgeting to three year budgeting. In ’18, we are going to probably 100 million meals. That is just a part of all that is going on. Our global model will be to be implemented in ‘18 and hopefully by 2020, that will be fully operational. It’s more collaboration in ’18 than we have ever had, even in ’16 or ’17.
 Hugh: I want you to be thinking about a parting word or sponsor that you have for people who want to do something but are afraid to do it and think it’s an uphill battle or impossible. You have given them a great story, but what advice do you have?
 Ray Buchanan, this has been an inspirational hour. You said how long is it going to be? I said, as long as it takes. Well, we could talk all day. As we are wrapping this interview up, what word of encouragement or what thought do you have for people who have a great idea like that but they are afraid to get started or don’t know where to start?
 Ray: Let the preacher come out of me for a minute. Three points. First, I think it’s faithfulness. You have to be faithful to what you know is right and what you know you’re called to do. That means doing it. The second is vision. When you are faithful to that vision, people will see that and respond to it. The third is get off your buts, and act on that vision. Faithfulness, vision, and action: those three things are what allow you to do far more than you ever imagined you could do. It’s what encourages people to get in and work with you. Those three things, you do that, and you can make a difference in the world. I think that’s what we are all trying to do is change the world forever. I tell people Rise Against Hunger, the vision is to create a world without hunger. Very simple. What we are really trying to do is change the world forever. I want to be a part of that.
 Hugh: Little bit at a time. One person at a time. You have compounded that over the years. Ray Buchanan, thank you for spending time with us and sharing your story. Thank you, Russ.
 Ray: Thanks, Russ.
 Russell: Thank you.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 10 Dec 2017 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7fce70cc-b329-11eb-9f0f-071fb8b7be2f/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Ray Buchanan Shares His Story of Success</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Ray Buchanan: A vision to end world hunger 
 In 1998, envisioning a world without hunger, Ray Buchanan — a United Methodist minister — founded Rise Against Hunger (formerly Stop Hunger Now). After enlisting as a U.S. Marine during the Vietnam War, Ray Buchanan quickly recognized that accomplishing a mission required “commitment to something larger than yourself.” Over the past three decades, that principle has driven Ray’s mission to eradicate world hunger.
 As a divinity graduate student at Duke University, Ray began working with the poor and hungry. He continued that work at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, where he received his master’s degree in divinity, and as a pastor at ve rural United Methodist churches in Virginia. As a pastor, Ray joined the effort to save the lives of starving Ethiopians during the 1973-75 famine in Ethiopia.
 Driving Ray’s hunger work is the recognition that “ending hunger is more than just feeding people.” So Rise Against Hunger “focuses its feeding programs in areas where we can see transformational development,” he says.
 Ray embodies the ideal of a servant leader. And he understands that volunteers and organizations working together can build a global movement that will stimulate the political will to marshal the resources that are essential — and available — to eradicate hunger.
 Rise Against Hunger has realized positive, annual growth mainly through expansion of the meal packaging program into new communities. Rise Against Hunger continues to further Ray’s legacy of commitment both to domestic and international crisis response including relief from famine, natural and manmade disasters and health epidemics.
 More information at www.riseagainsthunger.org
 The Interview Transcript
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. This episode of The Nonprofit Exchange is great, like every one of them, but this one is a new friend who is right here in Lynchburg, Virginia. He has an extensive history of founding charities and taking them not just to the next level, but taking them to the top. In some cases, over the top.
 Ray Buchanan: Over the top would be a good way to put it.
 Hugh: Ray Buchanan. We are going to talk principally about a charity you formed that you originally called Stop Hunger Now. Now it’s Rise Against Hunger. I want to let you tell a little bit about yourself. You had an idea about something. How did you put it together and start this, get people on board, and get it funded? There is a lot of people with ideas, and they don’t really understand the sequence and how to put it together. Tell us about Ray. Thank you for being on The Nonprofit Exchange today.
 Ray: Good to be here. I appreciate the opportunity. I was in the Marine Corps during Vietnam. Came out of the Marine Corps. Did all my undergraduate work in about two and a half years. I then had a mentor who saw more in me than I thought was there. He said, “Where are you going to go to get your divinity degree?” I said, “I hadn’t thought about it.” He said, “You need to go to Duke.” I said, “Riiight.” I literally thought he was kidding, but he knew people who knew people and I found myself at Duke.
 I immediately felt like I was way out of my league. I looked at all these young people coming in the first day of class, and I said, “I don’t belong here.” What happened was very interesting. I stood in the corner of the student center of the divinity school, and I saw somebody come in the door who looked as miserable as I felt. He was about my age, older than the normal incoming divinity school student. We hooked up, and he had military experience, been to Vietnam as well. We started talking, and pretty soon another older student came in. The three of us gravitated together.
 What happened was that first semester at Duke, we became a support group. We didn’t know that’s what it was, but we were all married and had at least one child. In the course of that semester, we became best friends, closer than friends, and a support group like I said. We started in January. During the summer, of course we all wanted to pastor churches. According to the Methodist church, they had no churches available in North Carolina around Duke. I had the choice, and I chose doing beach ministry in Atlantic Beach, North Carolina. That sounds like a real cool gig, but we did most of our work with runaways and drug culture between one and two o’clock in the morning. I had a safe house for folks.
 One of our other friends served a small church in Raleigh. Ken, the first person I saw, came from Virginia. His superintendent needed pastors badly. He already had a church promised to him. He talked to his superintendent, and he said, “You have friends that might serve churches?” The process was so far along that we didn’t get to visit, but he called. I learned my first lesson of humility. He asked me who I was and what I wanted, so I told him I’d been a youth minister in a larger church in North Carolina when I was in college. I had experiences as a chaplain’s assistant. I really pumped myself up the way you would to a boss. He said, “I haven’t been able to get up with your other friend. What kind of experience does he have?” I said, “He’s a really nice guy. He doesn’t really have as much experience as me, but he is really committed. He has a heart for the Lord, but he just hasn’t had the experience.” The superintendent without missing a beat said, “Well, that is his subtlety. You obviously have much more experience. I’ll give you the five churches, and I’ll give him the four churches.” I learned real quick you don’t need to do that.
 I started there because that is really the start of the journey we are talking about. The three of us were appointed to churches in rural Virginia, the south side of Virginia. We were right outside of South Hill. Between us we had 13 rural churches.
 Hugh: Oh, wow.
 Ray: And we were going to school fulltime, commuting an hour and a half one way. We learned really quickly about supporting one another. We learned that each one of us had gifts and graces that matched with the others. Where I was weak, my friend was strong. Where he was weak, our other friend was strong. Rather than compete, we decided we would work as a team. With those 13 churches, they were all small, struggling, had that feeling that many small Methodist churches have, that they weren’t ministering. They were surviving. We decided to change that. For the four years that we were there, we made sure we worked as a cooperative parish. We weren’t ever legally called that, but we had our churches go together. I remember the first thing we did is we gathered clothes for Appalachia. They had never been able to do anything as one or two churches, but as 13 churches, we filled a huge U-Haul truck. The men took it to Appalachia, and it made them feel so empowered to be able to do something.
 Hugh: As you’re talking about that, that is a group of churches. The same thing could apply to a group of small charities.
 Ray: Absolutely. One of the key philosophies that I have always worked with is everything is built on partnerships. The more partners you could have involved, the stronger the program is. I’m not saying it’s easier, but it really impacts more people, not only from the relief side, but also from the folks doing it.
 A key principle in what helps grow the organizations I have been a part of is we always seek partnerships. One example is with Rise Against Hunger, when I started, I knew nothing about international relief work. I had been doing domestic relief work for 20 years, and I’ve done a few things internationally. But how you work internationally is something I had to learn on the job. One thing I committed to was I was not going to start offices internationally because internationally, every place I wanted to work, there were already relief organizations on the ground. I didn’t need to reinvent the wheel. I just needed to partner with the folks already there who had a better idea of what was necessary.
 Hugh: I won’t let that one slip by. You’re really understanding the synergy of collaboration. Let’s do more stuff than we can do by ourselves. What year was that?
 Ray: I started Rise Against Hunger in January of 1998. What had happened was earlier than that,
 Society had a program called The Potato Project. That is the story of God’s grace. Basically, Society of St. Andrew was an intentional community devoted to covenant living. What that means is in response to world hunger, we said we wanted to come together and demonstrate a lifestyle that the entire world could adopt, a just lifestyle, a fair lifestyle. We had two families that moved together onto a farm. We formed a covenant to live under the poverty level. When we started in 1979, that was about $2,000 a person.
 Hugh: Oh my goodness.
 Ray: If you put all the stuff in the world in a pile and everybody took a fair share, in 1979, it would come to about $2,000 a person. We made a covenant that we would live under that. We had nine people in our community: four adults and five kids. We said we would live under $18,000 a year. We never made it up to $18,000 a year. Basically, we lived under the poverty level out of choice, and we wanted to do that not only to identify with the poor, but also to demonstrate to the church especially that if we wanted to, we could live in a way that the entire world would be able to have a fair share.
 Hugh: The year you founded this organization was 1979. It was founded as Stop Hunger Now.
 Ray: The first organization was founded as Society of St. Andrew. I was the co-director of that from 1979-1998. In 1998, the reason I left Society of St. Andrew is because after 15 years or so, both my co-director and I were getting burned out. You start out with your hands working with the poor, shoulder to shoulder, but as the organization gets bigger and bigger, you get further away from the poor. We worked with the poor. Then we had staff that worked with the poor. Then we had managers. Then we had directors of the managers. All of a sudden, you look around and you have 70-80 employees in five or six states. You are so far you can’t even see the poor. I started using my vacation time to go internationally to work in Africa and what have you so I could still get my hands dirty.
 Hugh: That’s interesting. You get so far away from the work that is your passion. You get sucked in to the organization. There is a lesson in that, too.
 Ray: Absolutely.
 Hugh: When did you found this organization that is now Rise Against Hunger?
 Ray: 1998.
 Hugh: And it was founded as Stop Hunger Now.
 Ray: Yes, it was founded as Stop Hunger Now. The reason the name is important, the reason I founded it is because I did my work internationally, it hit me that although hunger in the United States is real and it’s horrible and it’s immoral, the richest country in the history of the world, that we have hunger doesn’t make sense. The Christian church has to understand its responsibility there. As I worked internationally, there were opportunities that started to rise in doing stuff internationally. My passions fairly quickly turned to doing international work because although hunger is real in the United States, it’s qualitatively different than hunger around the world. In the United States, no one dies of hunger. I challenge you to find a newspaper article that talks about the last time anyone died of hunger. They might have died of exposure or something, but it is such a rarity that it is not measurable. You go international, and after all these years, we have hunger down to 20,000 people a day.
 Hugh: A day.
 Ray: But when I started, it was like 30,000 people a day dying of hunger. There is no way to explain that. I have always wanted to have the biggest impact. So I started focusing internationally, and my partner, after you work together with somebody for 20 years, you know each other. He looked at me and said, “If you need money for that, you raise it. We don’t have money for that.” At that time, Society of St. Andrew was doing $15 or 20 million worth of in-can work, and our cash budget was $1 or $1.5 million a year. We never had enough money. That is how Stop Hunger got started because I needed to raise $25,000 for a special project. I didn’t have it. After my partner said, “Well, if you want it, you raise it,” which was the way we worked, I remembered that five years earlier, a donor had come to us, he and his wife. We had an office in a sheep shed. They came and sat around the table and said they wanted to help feed the hungry. His vision of hunger was a starving child with a bowl held up. At that point, my partner and I said, “We don’t do that.” We didn’t. We worked in the United States, using tractor trailers to haul produce to food banks on Native American reservations. We told him we really appreciate the offer, but that is not what we do. It’s not a good match. But we have a friend who is chairman of the board of Food for the Hungry. We will give you his name, and you can connect. We broke the cardinal rule of you never give a donor away. We gave this donor away before we ever started working with him. Strange thing though. Every year, he would call us and say, “Do you have any special projects?” We’d say yes. He’d say, “Send me the bill.” For about $8-10,000. He would never give us a grant. He would never write us a check. But he would always give us a gift of about $10,000 by paying a certain bill. I remembered his vision.
 After five years, I went to our Director of Development and called him and said, “Give me this guy’s name and number.” He said, “Let’s meet.” I went to Virginia Beach, and we had lunch. I’ll never forget. The timing was amazing. I drove from the big island, and he drove a couple of blocks and we got there at the same time. We met in the parking lot and walked into the restaurant. He said, “How are things going?” making small talk. I said, “Great. My daughter is having her first child.” He said, “Oh, you’re going to be a grandfather for the first time?” The proper answer would be, “Of course I am. Yes, that’s great.” I said, “No. When my son turned 21, he got a girl pregnant, so I have a grandson.” I said, Shut up, shut up, this is not the way you speak, shut up. It was like I had verbal diarrhea. We get in, and the maître d’ seats us. He comes back and starts to speak. John waves his hands, saying, “No.” He leans across the table and he says, “Ray, last year was the worst year of my life. I went from being a millionaire to not being a millionaire. I got kicked out of my own organization that I started. My wife divorced me. My son had to get staggering drunk to tell me that he had gotten a young lady pregnant.”
 Hugh: Oh my goodness.
 Ray: This is before the menus get there. All that is simply to say we were on a level that you normally don’t get to with a donor until you’ve cultivated them for years. That is how Stop Hunger Now got started to be honest.
 Hugh: We are recording live on Facebook. If you come by and wonder what this is, this is the Nonprofit Exchange. Every Tuesday at 2 EST, we talk with a thought leader about how they have made things happen. We are talking to Ray Buchanan about multiple charities he has founded. Ray, I have moved from using the word “nonprofit” a lot even though this is the Nonprofit Exchange. When I am in conversation, I use the word charity because we have tax-exempt charities. It’s a business and a framework that has got a lot of rules and regulations for the IRS. My co-host, Russell, used to work for the IRS. He is very much up to date with how we need to comply with those. We need to have strong business principles. If you are listening to the podcast sometime in history, you can ask questions on the podcast page. We learn from other people’s stories. Ray, when you are looking back and talking about starting these, Russell was just meeting with a gentleman that has got a hunger project. This is quite an amazing story, Russell, about Ray starting what was called Stop Hunger Now. Now it’s called Rise Against Hunger. You had an idea. How hard was it to get it off the ground? How hard was it to get people to support it? How hard was it to get some funding?
 Ray: I want to say one of the first things that was my first organization, Society of St. Andrew, what made that successful is that when we started our first big project after three years, we fell into the Potato Project, which has taken unused produce otherwise thrown away, wasted. We were going to get that to the hungry across Virginia. The farmers agreed to give us the produce, but they had to get their money recouped on the extra labor, the bags, and the transportation. I could tell you a lot of funny stories about that. Long story short, they could get us potatoes that would normally be thrown away for three cents a pound, a phenomenal price. They said they could get us a million pounds of potatoes. A million pounds of potatoes at three cents a pound is $30,000. At that point, our two families were living on between $12-15,000 a year. That was all the money in the world. That first $30,000 came from the United Methodist Church seeing the vision and buying into the vision. I could talk for hours about the faithfulness in that because at that point, we were seen as a couple of hippies living on a farm. We weren’t the bare-faced young guys. But they had enough faith to put the money into it.
 Once that project started, we had never realized that we were just scratching the surface. Farmers wanted to give us more and more produce, which required more money and more distribution areas, which required more transportation. Literally within two months, we were spending $30,000 to last us this summer, and after about a month and a half, we were out of money. It hadn’t been misused, but the need was so great. We started having to raise money. The first thing we did was my partner’s brother who had a business degree came to us and said, “You all need somebody to fund this.” Both of us understood that numbers are not my friends. I will be honest with you. I like letters. You can make words with letters, and words make sentences. Numbers are just numbers. We asked his brother to help us, and he graciously helped us. From day one, we ran the organization as a business.
 Hugh: From day one.
 Ray: From day one. That is one of the biggest benchmarks that I can point to as to why it worked. We didn’t operate as a church. That sounds very horrible, but it’s true. We operated as a business, not only in that the finances were handled to the penny. I can literally remember Friday evening at 6:00 realizing that David was still in the office. We operated in a sheep shed that previously held sheep in it. I would see the light on and say, “David, what are you doing?” “I can’t get the books to balance.” I said, “What is it?” He said, “It’s 27 cents. I cannot find it.” I said, “Here is a quarter.” He said, “Noooo, you don’t understand.” That is the way we operated financially from day one, but we also realized that when we made a promise, it was a commitment. Unlike a lot of charities, church organizations, nonprofits, it was like, We will not get to it if we can when we can. If we said we were going to do something, we did it. The operating as a business is a key principle that every nonprofit ought to operate by.
 Hugh: Hey Russell, we teach this stuff. It works. How about that?
 Russell: The sweet spot is where fun and compliance and compassion come together. That’s what I call the sweet spot. 27 cents by the way is not material if you have more than five dollars.
 Ray: I understand that. But the principle is the same.
 Russell: The principle is the same. It’s like operating a business without losing who you are. If you have a mission and the mission is spiritual, you don’t have to lose that. There is a point in there where money and spirituality mix. It’s just understanding both the critical components to what you’re doing so that you don’t leave either out to the exclusion. They are not mutually exclusive in other words.
 Ray: Absolutely. To jump forward, when I started Stop Hunger Now, basically I met with this donor. I was asking him for $25,000. He had been giving us $10,000 a year for five years. When I got to the point where he said, “What do you really want?” and I told him I needed $25,000 to move three containers of food to North Korea and Africa, he said, “Fine, I’ll write you a check Monday.” Any time you can take a donor from $10,000 to $25,0000, you know that is a home run. I was just going internally like Yes! I couldn’t wait to go home and work out the logistics.
 He lookrd across the table and said, “Tell me, you said you were burned out and were thinking about leaving the organization a couple years earlier. What is it that you really want?” Not trying to be flip, but I said, “I want to feed more hungry people.” He is not the kind of man who accepts an answer like that. He said, “I asked you a serious question. Give me a serious answer.” I had to take a deep breath. I answered him, “What I’d really like to do is go to crisis areas around the world, find out what the real need is, come home, and cut through all the red tape and BS and get that need met as fast as possible.” He leaned across the table and said, “That’s exactly my dream, with one exception.” I said, “What is that?” He said, “I’d want you to take the checkbook with you.” We finished the meeting.
 As we are getting in our cars, he looked at me and said, “Let’s see if we can’t make our dreams come true.” Two days later, he called and said, “How soon can the head of my foundation and I meet with you and your partner in Big Island?”
 Two days after that, four days after our original meeting, they were in our office. Both my partner and I knew what he wanted: to set up an international relief hunger organization. My partner and our wives and I have nonstop been figuring out how to make it work. At that point, Society of St. Andrew had an 18-year track record. We were known throughout the United Methodist Church, working in all 48 contiguous states, constantly went up to the Hill to give testimony on hunger and gleaning. I was on the House Select committee and a bunch of stuff like that. We said, “Oh, good, we are going to have a domestic arm and an international arm.” We presented that to him as what we were going to do. He looked at us and crossed his arms and said, “Nope, I’m not interested.” We were crushed. We thought we had this perfect plan. He said, “Look, you are a domestic hunger organization. Your board is always going to fight over who gets the money. Here is what I’ll do. I’ll give you a quarter of a million dollars a year for two years. Three conditions. 1) You set up a new organization. 2) You set up a completely separate board of directors. 3) You are the director,” pointing at me.
 Hugh: Oh.
 Ray: Now, what do you do when you’re 50 years old and somebody looks at you and says, “I will make your dreams come true?”
 Hugh: Oh my.
 Ray: That is so exciting. But if you look at the flip side of it, we had an organization that we had started as two families living under the poverty level and was now at the pinnacle of our ministry. Like I said, we are at Capitol Hill every month. Our senator’s wife was on our board. It was a horse you could ride until you wanted to get off. It was only going to get bigger and better. You leave that to start over basically. You leave that. The four adults that founded this society prayed together and cried together and discussed for two to three days. We came to the conclusion that if we didn’t take his offer, that money was not going to be there. To get to a place where we could do the international ministry that we wanted would take us a couple of years to raise another quarter of a million dollars because we had maxed out our fundraising capacity at that point. We knew that it would take us a year or two to ramp up if we could. We thought we would take his offer because we could do more good faster by doing that than any other way we could.
 I left Society of St. Andrew at that point to take over and start a new organization. That is how Stop Hunger Now got started. I started January 1, 1998 with a guaranteed $2,500. Show you how simple I am. I had two goals for 1998 for Stop Hunger Now. I wanted to do at least a half a million dollars’ worth of ministry. I wanted to double his gift of $250,000. Secondly, I wanted to be in five or six countries. I didn’t want to be a single country nonprofit. At the end of the first year, we were audited, and the audit showed that we had done $2.9 million worth of aid in 18 countries. That was the start of Stop Hunger Now.
 The name is very significant because Society of St. Andrew, my first organization, was named for the disciple Andrew. He was always introducing others to Jesus one at a time, “Here is my friend.” We like that kind of evangelism. More importantly, he was the disciple that knew about the boy with the loaves and fishes when Jesus fed the 5,000. Very significant spiritually. As we grew, we had focus groups and consultants come in. The first thing every group said, “That is the most horrible name you could have picked. There is no worse name.” Society of St. Andrew: Is that a Presbyterian program? Is it a Catholic program? Is it an Episcopal program? Is it a golfing group? It says nothing about what you do. I learned that. When I started my own organization, Stop Hunger Now, our mission and our ministry were identical. Nobody ever asked what do you do.
 Hugh: Why the change from Stop Hunger Now to Rise Against Hunger?
 Ray: We rebranded this year because as we grew, we realized that Sodexo has their foundation called Stop Hunger. Dozens of times, we tried to work with them to get the trademark Stop Hunger Now, and their lawyer said it’s too close. For 12 years or 15 years, we worked side by side, no problems, but as our program expanded internationally and we started doing more programs outside the U.S., we bumped up against Sodexo in England, where they didn’t want our brand in England for some reason. Our board looked at it and realized we had to get a trademark name. As we started looking at marks, we couldn’t even get the mark that we had. We had to start from scratch to rebrand.
 Hugh: It’s really good to have that clarity. Your brand tells people what you do. If there is confusion, people don’t want to help you. Russell, I know your brain is going with this funding thing. Russell teaches charities how to attract funding. He is one of our WayFinders in SynerVision. We are talking about Ray joining the WayFinder team. I didn’t tell him about the initiation process.
 Ray: I don’t have a lot of hair to shave.
 Russell: There is full heads of hair, and there is perfect ones like this.
 Ray: That’s right.
 Russell: You don’t need to dress this up.
 Ray: I hear ya. I hear ya.
 Hugh: Russell, did you come from- You got this striped shirt on. Did you come from a ball game where you are refereeing, or were you on the work cam for the prison?
 Russell: Rocks from Little Rocks all morning long.
 Hugh: Russell, you are listening to this story like I am. I am thinking like this is a fairytale story. How do these people come along?
 This is one of our colleagues in Denver. You are real popular.
 Russell: I am just a party waiting to happen here.
 Hugh: I know. As you are listening to his story, how many charities have we worked with over the years that really struggled to get somebody to believe in them to help them get some funding? There must be something that worked with your tenacity, your language, or something. Russell, what are you hearing? What question do you have for Ray about this early stage and the funding piece together and then getting the right team?
 Russell: That is a perfect illustration of what we talk about when we talk about why you are doing what it is that you’re doing. Or do you want to get out of it? That is a perfect illustration of how important that is because that is exactly what happened to Ray. When somebody brings that horse to you and says, “Here is the gift horse. You don’t quibble over what you call it. You just say thank you and move on.” There is a lot of fear involved with that. But you took the bull by the horns and went on and did what it was that you thought you needed to do. Focus on the fact that the mission is important. This is big. This is something that is bigger than me. I have to go here and do this. Here it is. Face that fear and go ahead and do it anyway. Talk with people and find out what is important to them. You were able to speak their language, and that is why they partnered with you. When you talk to people, it’s important to use language that is important to them and that they value and move from that standpoint.
 Let’s talk about that a little bit, Ray. I’m sure there were some doubts or some voices come up. We have our critics. We have our itty bitty committee, and I throw something a little extra in. This is PG-13. I will not throw the extra word in there. Itty bitty committee that comes calling when you go to brass that dream and you go to take it a step further. Talk about how you handle some of those conversations that were going on in your head and push through them to reach for the bigger goal.
 Ray: It’s interesting that you say that because I tell friends that Stop Hunger Now started in January 1998. We knew about it from the end of August. That was when the donor made the decision to move forward. September through March, that six-month period, was probably the period where I was most frightened in my whole life because I had always worked with a partner, worked as a team ministry. We had gotten very successful with what we were doing. We fulfilled all our commitments and were just growing. I was getting ready to leap out into an area I basically knew nothing about with no support network behind me. I was so frightened, but I realized after I did it, I was thinking it was like leaping across the Grand Canyon. Actually, it was just like stepping off a curb. It was just a change. It was nothing great.
 What helped me was what I’d learned with my first organization: People honor results. The people allowed us to do the Potato Project because they had seen us living for three years according to a basic lifestyle of justice. Being just and living that out gave us a platform to do the domestic hunger. Doing the domestic hunger piece for 18 years said that yes, we can fulfill what we promised. When I started Stop Hunger Now, that first year, we were able to make some huge accomplishments again through the grace of God. But for example, my first trip in January of 1998, I went to Nicaragua, Honduras, and Haiti because those are the three poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere. During those trips, I made partnerships and started putting the protocols in place to help some organizations. All of a sudden, in August of that year, we had Hurricane Mitch, one of the biggest hurricanes that hit Central America. Because I had worked with these folks and I had the protocols in place, I was able to get them funds that allowed them to be the first organizations in Honduras for example to actually make a difference for the hungry.
 When people see that you’re actually making a difference, they want to be a part of that. People are hungry to help. The biggest difficulty that I’ve seen is they don’t know how. If you can demonstrate that your organization really makes a difference, you will not have difficulty finding funding most of the time.
 Hugh: If you go out there and knock on doors.
 Ray: If you go out there and knock on doors to start with. It’s always the case that when you need money the most, it’s the hardest to get. When you get to a place where you have grown the organization where money is not that difficult to come by, it flows in. That has always been my understanding. I will say that in the early days, my first organization, Society of St. Andrew, when we started the Potato Project and started spending money, it was $1,000 a month, then it was $1,000 a week. We literally had the capacity to spend ourselves out of existence in any two-day period that we decided to move enough produce. Went to D.C. and talked with a lady at a project where we were helping. We were getting potatoes for her. She said, “I know a man that might want to help you. Let me give you his phone number. He likes organizations like yours, so he will probably give you $1,000.” And $1,000 was wonderful for us.
 I called the number. It was a business number. He never had come in by 11:00, and he always left by 1:00. Literally for over a week, I couldn’t get up with him. I finally asked the administrative person, “I’m sorry, but I really need to talk to this gentleman. Is there any way I can get ahold of him?” She said, “Let me give you his home phone.” I called his home phone for a week and never got up with him. We were panicked, and the need for money was so great we were at a loss. I called the secretary back and she said, “Oh, I gave you his bedroom number. Let me give you his den number.”
 The first time I called this young man, and he was a young man, he answered. I told him who I was and what we were doing. He said, “Oh man, that is so cool. I like that. Could you use $10,000?” I was hoping for $1,000. I said, “Yeah.” He said, “Let me talk to my dad, and we will put it through the foundation. We will give you $10,000.” With just a letter, I sent him a letter request. He gave us $10,000. Then they gave us another $10,000, and another $10,000. That was $30,000 over the course of two months with never meeting him, just a letter. I kept trying to meet him to take him to lunch and get to know him and cultivate him. He said, “Man, I don’t do the lunch thing.” I said, “Fine.” One time I knew I was going to be in D.C, and I told him, “I would love to come see you.” He said, “Come up to the house, and we’ll talk.”
 I came up to the house, and this was a young guy who had been involved in the drug culture. It had affected him quite a bit. He had a huge mudbog truck taller than I was. We spent about four hours together just getting to know each other. He fixed us ham sandwiches in the kitchen. Just a really nice young man who is really trying to find himself. I mean, he had a good heart and never talked about money the whole time.
 As I was getting ready to leave, he reached into his back pocket and gave me an envelope. “We have been giving you money from the foundation. This is from my personal account. I am sorry it isn’t more than it is, but I’ve been burning through the money a lot faster than I thought. My accountant said he was surprised I had any left in the account at all. This is all I can do. I believe in what you’re doing.” Well, I thanked him profusely of course and put the money in the car.
 I got in the car and drove out to the edge of the driveway. It is a long driveway outside of D.C. I couldn’t stand it. I wasn’t going to go on the road home until I looked in the envelope and saw a check for $43,500 from his personal account. The reason that is significant is that $43,000 got us through the next three weeks at which time the United Methodist Committee on Relief gave us a grant for $100,000. You just never know how you cultivate donors. I want to say if you’re faithful in doing what your passion calls you to do and you communicate that openly to your donors, they will respond.
 Hugh: That is a big “and.” A lot of people don’t connect those dotted lines, do they, Russ?
 Russell: That’s that fourth piece of the four steps to building a high-performance nonprofit is communicating that value that you bring. The language is a little different for different people, but it’s about relationships. You communicate that. That is very important. It’s critical. It’s actually being able to go out there, understanding what your core is, and communicating those values. They may not be for everybody, but you go out there and you do it and you make those critical connections. That’s what it’s all about. It’s about relationships.
 I was just thinking because that is an example of one donor, but you have different people who volunteer, different people come to work. What are some of the things when people say, “Why do you work with Rise Against Hunger?” What are some of the reasons that people will give? When you understand that, you can communicate that. I am going to put that question to you, Ray, because you have all these relationships you have built, whether it’s a staff member or a volunteer. What are some of the things people are saying when the question, “Why do you work with Rise Against Hunger?” comes up?
 Ray: We get the same answer all the time. We engage about a quarter of a million to 350,000 volunteers a year now. We engage them to a meal packaging program that allows- It’s an inter-generational program that lasts two hours where volunteers package high-protein dehydrated meals for school feeding programs internationally. It is a beautiful entrance into making a difference on hunger. We get the same responses every time we ask people. We don’t usually have to ask them. First of all, they say it’s so much fun. We can make a difference. We are having an impact. They can see the connection between their hands and their heart. It’s one thing to write a check and for some people that’s exactly what they need. More and more people in the millennial generation want to be physically involved in what they are committing themselves to. Giving volunteers a chance to be involved makes all the difference in the world.
 The same thing is true for boards. I am passionate about growing boards because a high-powered, high-impact board really empowers an organization to reach the next level. It’s the same for every level of volunteering. Giving people a chance to make a difference where they can see it and feel it makes all the difference in the world. People come back time and time again to our events because not only are they interacting with other people and having a good time, but they also know when they put those meals in the box, the next time that box is opened, it will be at a school somewhere where the kids would not be able to come to school without those meals. They know they are transforming lives. That is so important.
 Hugh: You sort of understanding the fun part of that. My church in Blacksburg did this. In two hours, how many pounds of food do we package?
 Ray: You probably package 10,000 meals.
 Hugh: 10,000 meals we packaged in two hours. They have an area director that comes in and tells people all the resources there, the boxes, the gloves. It is a very sanitary process. It’s like an energy field where we are doing stuff, and it’s like a church social event. It’s like games. Like games for families at church. This is far better. We are doing something worthwhile. It is really an energized process where people package. They tell us exactly what is going to happen to it. We put it in those boxes. We take it out, it goes into a truck. Whoosh. It’s gone. I was very impressed with the organization. It’s like turnkey, boom.
 Ray: That is part of the secret. The turnkey part of it. The thing is, the more people you have involved in this process, the more fun it becomes. We have done events. One of my favorite events was done in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. We had one university with four campuses. They packaged a million meals in seven hours using 4,000 students in four locations. It was just awesome. It was electric. We do million meal events all the time.
 One of the most exciting events I have done recently was February a year ago when Kraft Heinz merged. They brought all their senior leaders from around the world together for their first gathering. They asked Rise Against Hunger to come and do a team building event by packaging meals. They wanted to package a tractor trailer load of meals, 285,000 meals. They wanted to do it in two hours. They had roughly 900-1,000 employees from around the world. Not employees, leaders. These are senior leaders. They came, and this was to merge the Kraft people and the Heinz people together. They had such a blast. The CEO of Kraft-Heinz was in there among them going from table to table, talking about what they were accomplishing. They are one of our biggest corporate partners now. They were then as well. The energy in the room, when you can have that many people working on the same thing, interacting with people you normally wouldn’t interact with, it’s magic.
 Hugh: What is the website where people can go find out about this?
 Ray: Riseagainsthunger.org.
 Hugh: Riseagainsthunger. It will be listed in the podcast notes and TheNonProfitExchangeorg. It is listed there along with your pretty picture. We will work the logo as well.
 The story about getting started is pretty dramatic. I will fund if you start a nrw organization. Talk about it today. How many countries, how many pounds of food, how much reach?
 Ray: We started in 1998. For the first seven years, we were a crisis relief organization. I was in the Marines, so I am being comfortable being in sketchy situations. We focused on getting into areas where the larger organizations either couldn’t go, wouldn’t go. We were a fast operation. I mean we would go in faster than most organizations and make stuff happen. I always wanted to move away from crisis relief into a more sustainable attack on hunger. Our original board donor who gave me all the money was not interested in that. His idea of feeding the hungry was crisis relief only. After about seven years, we had some board transition and a lot of other stuff. It was about that time where the Christmas tsunami hit. I found an organization that was doing meal packaging. I came back from visiting with them and said we are going to do this. That time, I had three staff people. We are going to start this in two months. They all laughed at me. We were able to get it started in two months. The first year, we started meal packaging, we meal packaged 1.1 million meals. The second year was 3.1. This year, we will package 75 million meals for the hungry.
 Hugh: 75 million from the start of 1.1 million.
 Ray: Yes.
 Hugh: My goodness.
 Ray: Now we have offices in 20 cities in the United States. We now have offices in five countries. I always said I didn’t want to raise a flag in other countries. We didn’t do that until we absolutely had to. What I mean by that is we don’t set up offices in countries to distribute meals. But implementing partners that do that well, they know what they’re doing. So many countries came to us and said, “We want to package meals and engage volunteers in our country.” South Africa was the first. We looked around, and South Africa had all the resources necessary to package meals. We started working in South Africa. Then Malaysia, the Philippines, Italy. We have a list of six or seven countries that want us to come in and start offices. But we are very careful about going and starting offices. They have to have all the resources available, and it has to be a wonderful thing. South Africa for example, they will package 8 or 9 million meals this year themselves. But what they have done is they have talked to the United States so much. This is the fun part about when you have work as partners.
 The situation in South Africa is completely different than the United States. They have lots of volunteers, but no funding. The churches in South Africa don’t have a financial base. They had to start going to corporate donors where we weren’t using corporate donors in the United States so much. The corporations got behind what they were doing and gave significant amounts of funds. We went to school and said, “If they are doing it, why don’t we work on that?” Our corporate income has grown by over 70% because we went to school with what South Africa was doing. We learn from each other that way.
 In the Philippines, our office there said we use dehydrated vegetables in our meals. Rather than buy those on the market, why don’t we get farmers to grow them so they can have a sustainable livelihood? They have cooperative farms where the farmers know that when they grow these vegetables, they will be bought at a fair price. Now they are getting the production ready to where these can be dehydrated, which will employ more people. They have the value chain from growing the vegetables to putting them in the meals. Employing lots of people. In India, they are doing other things.
 Every country operates as its own entity. In fact, I just came back from the Philippines a couple month ago where we had our first strategic global gathering where we are trying to figure out how to operate as a more global organization rather than the U.S. and affiliates. I can’t say enough about the board in the United States willing to look at that and say, “We can be one among equals rather than being paternalistic about it.” It’s a huge sea change, but it’s fun to see that happening. Never envisioned when I stepped out and started Rise Against Hunger, we had probably 148 employees in the United States in five countries. It keeps growing because it’s doing what it says it needs to do.
 Hugh: We are hitting our last five minutes in a wrap here. Russ, do you have some comments or questions for our guest today?
 Russell: Innovate and collaborate. That is the name of the game. That’s what you are doing. You can spread the impact. The sum is more powerful than the parts. It’s an ideal model. That’s what high performance nonprofits do. I commend you on that. You are doing a remarkable job. What is the big goal for 2018? What is the takeaway? What is the impact that you want to bring in 2018?
 Ray: Probably, we are in our strategic planning process now. We have just gone from one year budgeting to three year budgeting. In ’18, we are going to probably 100 million meals. That is just a part of all that is going on. Our global model will be to be implemented in ‘18 and hopefully by 2020, that will be fully operational. It’s more collaboration in ’18 than we have ever had, even in ’16 or ’17.
 Hugh: I want you to be thinking about a parting word or sponsor that you have for people who want to do something but are afraid to do it and think it’s an uphill battle or impossible. You have given them a great story, but what advice do you have?
 Ray Buchanan, this has been an inspirational hour. You said how long is it going to be? I said, as long as it takes. Well, we could talk all day. As we are wrapping this interview up, what word of encouragement or what thought do you have for people who have a great idea like that but they are afraid to get started or don’t know where to start?
 Ray: Let the preacher come out of me for a minute. Three points. First, I think it’s faithfulness. You have to be faithful to what you know is right and what you know you’re called to do. That means doing it. The second is vision. When you are faithful to that vision, people will see that and respond to it. The third is get off your buts, and act on that vision. Faithfulness, vision, and action: those three things are what allow you to do far more than you ever imagined you could do. It’s what encourages people to get in and work with you. Those three things, you do that, and you can make a difference in the world. I think that’s what we are all trying to do is change the world forever. I tell people Rise Against Hunger, the vision is to create a world without hunger. Very simple. What we are really trying to do is change the world forever. I want to be a part of that.
 Hugh: Little bit at a time. One person at a time. You have compounded that over the years. Ray Buchanan, thank you for spending time with us and sharing your story. Thank you, Russ.
 Ray: Thanks, Russ.
 Russell: Thank you.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong><em>Ray Buchanan:<br> A vision to end world hunger </em></strong></p> <p>In 1998, envisioning a world without hunger, Ray Buchanan — a United Methodist minister — founded Rise Against Hunger (formerly Stop Hunger Now). After enlisting as a U.S. Marine during the Vietnam War, Ray Buchanan quickly recognized that accomplishing a mission required “commitment to something larger than yourself.” Over the past three decades, that principle has driven Ray’s mission to eradicate world hunger.</p> <p>As a divinity graduate student at Duke University, Ray began working with the poor and hungry. He continued that work at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, where he received his master’s degree in divinity, and as a pastor at ve rural United Methodist churches in Virginia. As a pastor, Ray joined the effort to save the lives of starving Ethiopians during the 1973-75 famine in Ethiopia.</p> <p>Driving Ray’s hunger work is the recognition that “ending hunger is more than just feeding people.” So Rise Against Hunger “focuses its feeding programs in areas where we can see transformational development,” he says.</p> <p>Ray embodies the ideal of a servant leader. And he understands that volunteers and organizations working together can build a global movement that will stimulate the political will to marshal the resources that are essential — and available — to eradicate hunger.</p> <p>Rise Against Hunger has realized positive, annual growth mainly through expansion of the meal packaging program into new communities. Rise Against Hunger continues to further Ray’s legacy of commitment both to domestic and international crisis response including relief from famine, natural and manmade disasters and health epidemics.</p> <p>More information at <a href="http://www.riseagainsthunger.org/">www.riseagainsthunger.org</a></p> <p><strong>The Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. This episode of The Nonprofit Exchange is great, like every one of them, but this one is a new friend who is right here in Lynchburg, Virginia. He has an extensive history of founding charities and taking them not just to the next level, but taking them to the top. In some cases, over the top.</p> <p><strong>Ray Buchanan:</strong> Over the top would be a good way to put it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Ray Buchanan. We are going to talk principally about a charity you formed that you originally called Stop Hunger Now. Now it’s Rise Against Hunger. I want to let you tell a little bit about yourself. You had an idea about something. How did you put it together and start this, get people on board, and get it funded? There is a lot of people with ideas, and they don’t really understand the sequence and how to put it together. Tell us about Ray. Thank you for being on The Nonprofit Exchange today.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Good to be here. I appreciate the opportunity. I was in the Marine Corps during Vietnam. Came out of the Marine Corps. Did all my undergraduate work in about two and a half years. I then had a mentor who saw more in me than I thought was there. He said, “Where are you going to go to get your divinity degree?” I said, “I hadn’t thought about it.” He said, “You need to go to Duke.” I said, “Riiight.” I literally thought he was kidding, but he knew people who knew people and I found myself at Duke.</p> <p>I immediately felt like I was way out of my league. I looked at all these young people coming in the first day of class, and I said, “I don’t belong here.” What happened was very interesting. I stood in the corner of the student center of the divinity school, and I saw somebody come in the door who looked as miserable as I felt. He was about my age, older than the normal incoming divinity school student. We hooked up, and he had military experience, been to Vietnam as well. We started talking, and pretty soon another older student came in. The three of us gravitated together.</p> <p>What happened was that first semester at Duke, we became a support group. We didn’t know that’s what it was, but we were all married and had at least one child. In the course of that semester, we became best friends, closer than friends, and a support group like I said. We started in January. During the summer, of course we all wanted to pastor churches. According to the Methodist church, they had no churches available in North Carolina around Duke. I had the choice, and I chose doing beach ministry in Atlantic Beach, North Carolina. That sounds like a real cool gig, but we did most of our work with runaways and drug culture between one and two o’clock in the morning. I had a safe house for folks.</p> <p>One of our other friends served a small church in Raleigh. Ken, the first person I saw, came from Virginia. His superintendent needed pastors badly. He already had a church promised to him. He talked to his superintendent, and he said, “You have friends that might serve churches?” The process was so far along that we didn’t get to visit, but he called. I learned my first lesson of humility. He asked me who I was and what I wanted, so I told him I’d been a youth minister in a larger church in North Carolina when I was in college. I had experiences as a chaplain’s assistant. I really pumped myself up the way you would to a boss. He said, “I haven’t been able to get up with your other friend. What kind of experience does he have?” I said, “He’s a really nice guy. He doesn’t really have as much experience as me, but he is really committed. He has a heart for the Lord, but he just hasn’t had the experience.” The superintendent without missing a beat said, “Well, that is his subtlety. You obviously have much more experience. I’ll give you the five churches, and I’ll give him the four churches.” I learned real quick you don’t need to do that.</p> <p>I started there because that is really the start of the journey we are talking about. The three of us were appointed to churches in rural Virginia, the south side of Virginia. We were right outside of South Hill. Between us we had 13 rural churches.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh, wow.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> And we were going to school fulltime, commuting an hour and a half one way. We learned really quickly about supporting one another. We learned that each one of us had gifts and graces that matched with the others. Where I was weak, my friend was strong. Where he was weak, our other friend was strong. Rather than compete, we decided we would work as a team. With those 13 churches, they were all small, struggling, had that feeling that many small Methodist churches have, that they weren’t ministering. They were surviving. We decided to change that. For the four years that we were there, we made sure we worked as a cooperative parish. We weren’t ever legally called that, but we had our churches go together. I remember the first thing we did is we gathered clothes for Appalachia. They had never been able to do anything as one or two churches, but as 13 churches, we filled a huge U-Haul truck. The men took it to Appalachia, and it made them feel so empowered to be able to do something.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> As you’re talking about that, that is a group of churches. The same thing could apply to a group of small charities.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Absolutely. One of the key philosophies that I have always worked with is everything is built on partnerships. The more partners you could have involved, the stronger the program is. I’m not saying it’s easier, but it really impacts more people, not only from the relief side, but also from the folks doing it.</p> <p>A key principle in what helps grow the organizations I have been a part of is we always seek partnerships. One example is with Rise Against Hunger, when I started, I knew nothing about international relief work. I had been doing domestic relief work for 20 years, and I’ve done a few things internationally. But how you work internationally is something I had to learn on the job. One thing I committed to was I was not going to start offices internationally because internationally, every place I wanted to work, there were already relief organizations on the ground. I didn’t need to reinvent the wheel. I just needed to partner with the folks already there who had a better idea of what was necessary.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I won’t let that one slip by. You’re really understanding the synergy of collaboration. Let’s do more stuff than we can do by ourselves. What year was that?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> I started Rise Against Hunger in January of 1998. What had happened was earlier than that,</p> <p>Society had a program called The Potato Project. That is the story of God’s grace. Basically, Society of St. Andrew was an intentional community devoted to covenant living. What that means is in response to world hunger, we said we wanted to come together and demonstrate a lifestyle that the entire world could adopt, a just lifestyle, a fair lifestyle. We had two families that moved together onto a farm. We formed a covenant to live under the poverty level. When we started in 1979, that was about $2,000 a person.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my goodness.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> If you put all the stuff in the world in a pile and everybody took a fair share, in 1979, it would come to about $2,000 a person. We made a covenant that we would live under that. We had nine people in our community: four adults and five kids. We said we would live under $18,000 a year. We never made it up to $18,000 a year. Basically, we lived under the poverty level out of choice, and we wanted to do that not only to identify with the poor, but also to demonstrate to the church especially that if we wanted to, we could live in a way that the entire world would be able to have a fair share.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The year you founded this organization was 1979. It was founded as Stop Hunger Now.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> The first organization was founded as Society of St. Andrew. I was the co-director of that from 1979-1998. In 1998, the reason I left Society of St. Andrew is because after 15 years or so, both my co-director and I were getting burned out. You start out with your hands working with the poor, shoulder to shoulder, but as the organization gets bigger and bigger, you get further away from the poor. We worked with the poor. Then we had staff that worked with the poor. Then we had managers. Then we had directors of the managers. All of a sudden, you look around and you have 70-80 employees in five or six states. You are so far you can’t even see the poor. I started using my vacation time to go internationally to work in Africa and what have you so I could still get my hands dirty.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s interesting. You get so far away from the work that is your passion. You get sucked in to the organization. There is a lesson in that, too.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When did you found this organization that is now Rise Against Hunger?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> 1998.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And it was founded as Stop Hunger Now.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Yes, it was founded as Stop Hunger Now. The reason the name is important, the reason I founded it is because I did my work internationally, it hit me that although hunger in the United States is real and it’s horrible and it’s immoral, the richest country in the history of the world, that we have hunger doesn’t make sense. The Christian church has to understand its responsibility there. As I worked internationally, there were opportunities that started to rise in doing stuff internationally. My passions fairly quickly turned to doing international work because although hunger is real in the United States, it’s qualitatively different than hunger around the world. In the United States, no one dies of hunger. I challenge you to find a newspaper article that talks about the last time anyone died of hunger. They might have died of exposure or something, but it is such a rarity that it is not measurable. You go international, and after all these years, we have hunger down to 20,000 people a day.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A day.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> But when I started, it was like 30,000 people a day dying of hunger. There is no way to explain that. I have always wanted to have the biggest impact. So I started focusing internationally, and my partner, after you work together with somebody for 20 years, you know each other. He looked at me and said, “If you need money for that, you raise it. We don’t have money for that.” At that time, Society of St. Andrew was doing $15 or 20 million worth of in-can work, and our cash budget was $1 or $1.5 million a year. We never had enough money. That is how Stop Hunger got started because I needed to raise $25,000 for a special project. I didn’t have it. After my partner said, “Well, if you want it, you raise it,” which was the way we worked, I remembered that five years earlier, a donor had come to us, he and his wife. We had an office in a sheep shed. They came and sat around the table and said they wanted to help feed the hungry. His vision of hunger was a starving child with a bowl held up. At that point, my partner and I said, “We don’t do that.” We didn’t. We worked in the United States, using tractor trailers to haul produce to food banks on Native American reservations. We told him we really appreciate the offer, but that is not what we do. It’s not a good match. But we have a friend who is chairman of the board of Food for the Hungry. We will give you his name, and you can connect. We broke the cardinal rule of you never give a donor away. We gave this donor away before we ever started working with him. Strange thing though. Every year, he would call us and say, “Do you have any special projects?” We’d say yes. He’d say, “Send me the bill.” For about $8-10,000. He would never give us a grant. He would never write us a check. But he would always give us a gift of about $10,000 by paying a certain bill. I remembered his vision.</p> <p>After five years, I went to our Director of Development and called him and said, “Give me this guy’s name and number.” He said, “Let’s meet.” I went to Virginia Beach, and we had lunch. I’ll never forget. The timing was amazing. I drove from the big island, and he drove a couple of blocks and we got there at the same time. We met in the parking lot and walked into the restaurant. He said, “How are things going?” making small talk. I said, “Great. My daughter is having her first child.” He said, “Oh, you’re going to be a grandfather for the first time?” The proper answer would be, “Of course I am. Yes, that’s great.” I said, “No. When my son turned 21, he got a girl pregnant, so I have a grandson.” I said, Shut up, shut up, this is not the way you speak, shut up. It was like I had verbal diarrhea. We get in, and the maître d’ seats us. He comes back and starts to speak. John waves his hands, saying, “No.” He leans across the table and he says, “Ray, last year was the worst year of my life. I went from being a millionaire to not being a millionaire. I got kicked out of my own organization that I started. My wife divorced me. My son had to get staggering drunk to tell me that he had gotten a young lady pregnant.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my goodness.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> This is before the menus get there. All that is simply to say we were on a level that you normally don’t get to with a donor until you’ve cultivated them for years. That is how Stop Hunger Now got started to be honest.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are recording live on Facebook. If you come by and wonder what this is, this is the Nonprofit Exchange. Every Tuesday at 2 EST, we talk with a thought leader about how they have made things happen. We are talking to Ray Buchanan about multiple charities he has founded. Ray, I have moved from using the word “nonprofit” a lot even though this is the Nonprofit Exchange. When I am in conversation, I use the word charity because we have tax-exempt charities. It’s a business and a framework that has got a lot of rules and regulations for the IRS. My co-host, Russell, used to work for the IRS. He is very much up to date with how we need to comply with those. We need to have strong business principles. If you are listening to the podcast sometime in history, you can ask questions on the podcast page. We learn from other people’s stories. Ray, when you are looking back and talking about starting these, Russell was just meeting with a gentleman that has got a hunger project. This is quite an amazing story, Russell, about Ray starting what was called Stop Hunger Now. Now it’s called Rise Against Hunger. You had an idea. How hard was it to get it off the ground? How hard was it to get people to support it? How hard was it to get some funding?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> I want to say one of the first things that was my first organization, Society of St. Andrew, what made that successful is that when we started our first big project after three years, we fell into the Potato Project, which has taken unused produce otherwise thrown away, wasted. We were going to get that to the hungry across Virginia. The farmers agreed to give us the produce, but they had to get their money recouped on the extra labor, the bags, and the transportation. I could tell you a lot of funny stories about that. Long story short, they could get us potatoes that would normally be thrown away for three cents a pound, a phenomenal price. They said they could get us a million pounds of potatoes. A million pounds of potatoes at three cents a pound is $30,000. At that point, our two families were living on between $12-15,000 a year. That was all the money in the world. That first $30,000 came from the United Methodist Church seeing the vision and buying into the vision. I could talk for hours about the faithfulness in that because at that point, we were seen as a couple of hippies living on a farm. We weren’t the bare-faced young guys. But they had enough faith to put the money into it.</p> <p>Once that project started, we had never realized that we were just scratching the surface. Farmers wanted to give us more and more produce, which required more money and more distribution areas, which required more transportation. Literally within two months, we were spending $30,000 to last us this summer, and after about a month and a half, we were out of money. It hadn’t been misused, but the need was so great. We started having to raise money. The first thing we did was my partner’s brother who had a business degree came to us and said, “You all need somebody to fund this.” Both of us understood that numbers are not my friends. I will be honest with you. I like letters. You can make words with letters, and words make sentences. Numbers are just numbers. We asked his brother to help us, and he graciously helped us. From day one, we ran the organization as a business.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> From day one.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> From day one. That is one of the biggest benchmarks that I can point to as to why it worked. We didn’t operate as a church. That sounds very horrible, but it’s true. We operated as a business, not only in that the finances were handled to the penny. I can literally remember Friday evening at 6:00 realizing that David was still in the office. We operated in a sheep shed that previously held sheep in it. I would see the light on and say, “David, what are you doing?” “I can’t get the books to balance.” I said, “What is it?” He said, “It’s 27 cents. I cannot find it.” I said, “Here is a quarter.” He said, “Noooo, you don’t understand.” That is the way we operated financially from day one, but we also realized that when we made a promise, it was a commitment. Unlike a lot of charities, church organizations, nonprofits, it was like, We will not get to it if we can when we can. If we said we were going to do something, we did it. The operating as a business is a key principle that every nonprofit ought to operate by.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Hey Russell, we teach this stuff. It works. How about that?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The sweet spot is where fun and compliance and compassion come together. That’s what I call the sweet spot. 27 cents by the way is not material if you have more than five dollars.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> I understand that. But the principle is the same.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The principle is the same. It’s like operating a business without losing who you are. If you have a mission and the mission is spiritual, you don’t have to lose that. There is a point in there where money and spirituality mix. It’s just understanding both the critical components to what you’re doing so that you don’t leave either out to the exclusion. They are not mutually exclusive in other words.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Absolutely. To jump forward, when I started Stop Hunger Now, basically I met with this donor. I was asking him for $25,000. He had been giving us $10,000 a year for five years. When I got to the point where he said, “What do you really want?” and I told him I needed $25,000 to move three containers of food to North Korea and Africa, he said, “Fine, I’ll write you a check Monday.” Any time you can take a donor from $10,000 to $25,0000, you know that is a home run. I was just going internally like Yes! I couldn’t wait to go home and work out the logistics.</p> <p>He lookrd across the table and said, “Tell me, you said you were burned out and were thinking about leaving the organization a couple years earlier. What is it that you really want?” Not trying to be flip, but I said, “I want to feed more hungry people.” He is not the kind of man who accepts an answer like that. He said, “I asked you a serious question. Give me a serious answer.” I had to take a deep breath. I answered him, “What I’d really like to do is go to crisis areas around the world, find out what the real need is, come home, and cut through all the red tape and BS and get that need met as fast as possible.” He leaned across the table and said, “That’s exactly my dream, with one exception.” I said, “What is that?” He said, “I’d want you to take the checkbook with you.” We finished the meeting.</p> <p>As we are getting in our cars, he looked at me and said, “Let’s see if we can’t make our dreams come true.” Two days later, he called and said, “How soon can the head of my foundation and I meet with you and your partner in Big Island?”</p> <p>Two days after that, four days after our original meeting, they were in our office. Both my partner and I knew what he wanted: to set up an international relief hunger organization. My partner and our wives and I have nonstop been figuring out how to make it work. At that point, Society of St. Andrew had an 18-year track record. We were known throughout the United Methodist Church, working in all 48 contiguous states, constantly went up to the Hill to give testimony on hunger and gleaning. I was on the House Select committee and a bunch of stuff like that. We said, “Oh, good, we are going to have a domestic arm and an international arm.” We presented that to him as what we were going to do. He looked at us and crossed his arms and said, “Nope, I’m not interested.” We were crushed. We thought we had this perfect plan. He said, “Look, you are a domestic hunger organization. Your board is always going to fight over who gets the money. Here is what I’ll do. I’ll give you a quarter of a million dollars a year for two years. Three conditions. 1) You set up a new organization. 2) You set up a completely separate board of directors. 3) You are the director,” pointing at me.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Now, what do you do when you’re 50 years old and somebody looks at you and says, “I will make your dreams come true?”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> That is so exciting. But if you look at the flip side of it, we had an organization that we had started as two families living under the poverty level and was now at the pinnacle of our ministry. Like I said, we are at Capitol Hill every month. Our senator’s wife was on our board. It was a horse you could ride until you wanted to get off. It was only going to get bigger and better. You leave that to start over basically. You leave that. The four adults that founded this society prayed together and cried together and discussed for two to three days. We came to the conclusion that if we didn’t take his offer, that money was not going to be there. To get to a place where we could do the international ministry that we wanted would take us a couple of years to raise another quarter of a million dollars because we had maxed out our fundraising capacity at that point. We knew that it would take us a year or two to ramp up if we could. We thought we would take his offer because we could do more good faster by doing that than any other way we could.</p> <p>I left Society of St. Andrew at that point to take over and start a new organization. That is how Stop Hunger Now got started. I started January 1, 1998 with a guaranteed $2,500. Show you how simple I am. I had two goals for 1998 for Stop Hunger Now. I wanted to do at least a half a million dollars’ worth of ministry. I wanted to double his gift of $250,000. Secondly, I wanted to be in five or six countries. I didn’t want to be a single country nonprofit. At the end of the first year, we were audited, and the audit showed that we had done $2.9 million worth of aid in 18 countries. That was the start of Stop Hunger Now.</p> <p>The name is very significant because Society of St. Andrew, my first organization, was named for the disciple Andrew. He was always introducing others to Jesus one at a time, “Here is my friend.” We like that kind of evangelism. More importantly, he was the disciple that knew about the boy with the loaves and fishes when Jesus fed the 5,000. Very significant spiritually. As we grew, we had focus groups and consultants come in. The first thing every group said, “That is the most horrible name you could have picked. There is no worse name.” Society of St. Andrew: Is that a Presbyterian program? Is it a Catholic program? Is it an Episcopal program? Is it a golfing group? It says nothing about what you do. I learned that. When I started my own organization, Stop Hunger Now, our mission and our ministry were identical. Nobody ever asked what do you do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Why the change from Stop Hunger Now to Rise Against Hunger?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> We rebranded this year because as we grew, we realized that Sodexo has their foundation called Stop Hunger. Dozens of times, we tried to work with them to get the trademark Stop Hunger Now, and their lawyer said it’s too close. For 12 years or 15 years, we worked side by side, no problems, but as our program expanded internationally and we started doing more programs outside the U.S., we bumped up against Sodexo in England, where they didn’t want our brand in England for some reason. Our board looked at it and realized we had to get a trademark name. As we started looking at marks, we couldn’t even get the mark that we had. We had to start from scratch to rebrand.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s really good to have that clarity. Your brand tells people what you do. If there is confusion, people don’t want to help you. Russell, I know your brain is going with this funding thing. Russell teaches charities how to attract funding. He is one of our WayFinders in SynerVision. We are talking about Ray joining the WayFinder team. I didn’t tell him about the initiation process.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> I don’t have a lot of hair to shave.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There is full heads of hair, and there is perfect ones like this.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> That’s right.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You don’t need to dress this up.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> I hear ya. I hear ya.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, did you come from- You got this striped shirt on. Did you come from a ball game where you are refereeing, or were you on the work cam for the prison?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Rocks from Little Rocks all morning long.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, you are listening to this story like I am. I am thinking like this is a fairytale story. How do these people come along?</p> <p>This is one of our colleagues in Denver. You are real popular.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I am just a party waiting to happen here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I know. As you are listening to his story, how many charities have we worked with over the years that really struggled to get somebody to believe in them to help them get some funding? There must be something that worked with your tenacity, your language, or something. Russell, what are you hearing? What question do you have for Ray about this early stage and the funding piece together and then getting the right team?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is a perfect illustration of what we talk about when we talk about why you are doing what it is that you’re doing. Or do you want to get out of it? That is a perfect illustration of how important that is because that is exactly what happened to Ray. When somebody brings that horse to you and says, “Here is the gift horse. You don’t quibble over what you call it. You just say thank you and move on.” There is a lot of fear involved with that. But you took the bull by the horns and went on and did what it was that you thought you needed to do. Focus on the fact that the mission is important. This is big. This is something that is bigger than me. I have to go here and do this. Here it is. Face that fear and go ahead and do it anyway. Talk with people and find out what is important to them. You were able to speak their language, and that is why they partnered with you. When you talk to people, it’s important to use language that is important to them and that they value and move from that standpoint.</p> <p>Let’s talk about that a little bit, Ray. I’m sure there were some doubts or some voices come up. We have our critics. We have our itty bitty committee, and I throw something a little extra in. This is PG-13. I will not throw the extra word in there. Itty bitty committee that comes calling when you go to brass that dream and you go to take it a step further. Talk about how you handle some of those conversations that were going on in your head and push through them to reach for the bigger goal.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> It’s interesting that you say that because I tell friends that Stop Hunger Now started in January 1998. We knew about it from the end of August. That was when the donor made the decision to move forward. September through March, that six-month period, was probably the period where I was most frightened in my whole life because I had always worked with a partner, worked as a team ministry. We had gotten very successful with what we were doing. We fulfilled all our commitments and were just growing. I was getting ready to leap out into an area I basically knew nothing about with no support network behind me. I was so frightened, but I realized after I did it, I was thinking it was like leaping across the Grand Canyon. Actually, it was just like stepping off a curb. It was just a change. It was nothing great.</p> <p>What helped me was what I’d learned with my first organization: People honor results. The people allowed us to do the Potato Project because they had seen us living for three years according to a basic lifestyle of justice. Being just and living that out gave us a platform to do the domestic hunger. Doing the domestic hunger piece for 18 years said that yes, we can fulfill what we promised. When I started Stop Hunger Now, that first year, we were able to make some huge accomplishments again through the grace of God. But for example, my first trip in January of 1998, I went to Nicaragua, Honduras, and Haiti because those are the three poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere. During those trips, I made partnerships and started putting the protocols in place to help some organizations. All of a sudden, in August of that year, we had Hurricane Mitch, one of the biggest hurricanes that hit Central America. Because I had worked with these folks and I had the protocols in place, I was able to get them funds that allowed them to be the first organizations in Honduras for example to actually make a difference for the hungry.</p> <p>When people see that you’re actually making a difference, they want to be a part of that. People are hungry to help. The biggest difficulty that I’ve seen is they don’t know how. If you can demonstrate that your organization really makes a difference, you will not have difficulty finding funding most of the time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> If you go out there and knock on doors.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> If you go out there and knock on doors to start with. It’s always the case that when you need money the most, it’s the hardest to get. When you get to a place where you have grown the organization where money is not that difficult to come by, it flows in. That has always been my understanding. I will say that in the early days, my first organization, Society of St. Andrew, when we started the Potato Project and started spending money, it was $1,000 a month, then it was $1,000 a week. We literally had the capacity to spend ourselves out of existence in any two-day period that we decided to move enough produce. Went to D.C. and talked with a lady at a project where we were helping. We were getting potatoes for her. She said, “I know a man that might want to help you. Let me give you his phone number. He likes organizations like yours, so he will probably give you $1,000.” And $1,000 was wonderful for us.</p> <p>I called the number. It was a business number. He never had come in by 11:00, and he always left by 1:00. Literally for over a week, I couldn’t get up with him. I finally asked the administrative person, “I’m sorry, but I really need to talk to this gentleman. Is there any way I can get ahold of him?” She said, “Let me give you his home phone.” I called his home phone for a week and never got up with him. We were panicked, and the need for money was so great we were at a loss. I called the secretary back and she said, “Oh, I gave you his bedroom number. Let me give you his den number.”</p> <p>The first time I called this young man, and he was a young man, he answered. I told him who I was and what we were doing. He said, “Oh man, that is so cool. I like that. Could you use $10,000?” I was hoping for $1,000. I said, “Yeah.” He said, “Let me talk to my dad, and we will put it through the foundation. We will give you $10,000.” With just a letter, I sent him a letter request. He gave us $10,000. Then they gave us another $10,000, and another $10,000. That was $30,000 over the course of two months with never meeting him, just a letter. I kept trying to meet him to take him to lunch and get to know him and cultivate him. He said, “Man, I don’t do the lunch thing.” I said, “Fine.” One time I knew I was going to be in D.C, and I told him, “I would love to come see you.” He said, “Come up to the house, and we’ll talk.”</p> <p>I came up to the house, and this was a young guy who had been involved in the drug culture. It had affected him quite a bit. He had a huge mudbog truck taller than I was. We spent about four hours together just getting to know each other. He fixed us ham sandwiches in the kitchen. Just a really nice young man who is really trying to find himself. I mean, he had a good heart and never talked about money the whole time.</p> <p>As I was getting ready to leave, he reached into his back pocket and gave me an envelope. “We have been giving you money from the foundation. This is from my personal account. I am sorry it isn’t more than it is, but I’ve been burning through the money a lot faster than I thought. My accountant said he was surprised I had any left in the account at all. This is all I can do. I believe in what you’re doing.” Well, I thanked him profusely of course and put the money in the car.</p> <p>I got in the car and drove out to the edge of the driveway. It is a long driveway outside of D.C. I couldn’t stand it. I wasn’t going to go on the road home until I looked in the envelope and saw a check for $43,500 from his personal account. The reason that is significant is that $43,000 got us through the next three weeks at which time the United Methodist Committee on Relief gave us a grant for $100,000. You just never know how you cultivate donors. I want to say if you’re faithful in doing what your passion calls you to do and you communicate that openly to your donors, they will respond.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is a big “and.” A lot of people don’t connect those dotted lines, do they, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s that fourth piece of the four steps to building a high-performance nonprofit is communicating that value that you bring. The language is a little different for different people, but it’s about relationships. You communicate that. That is very important. It’s critical. It’s actually being able to go out there, understanding what your core is, and communicating those values. They may not be for everybody, but you go out there and you do it and you make those critical connections. That’s what it’s all about. It’s about relationships.</p> <p>I was just thinking because that is an example of one donor, but you have different people who volunteer, different people come to work. What are some of the things when people say, “Why do you work with Rise Against Hunger?” What are some of the reasons that people will give? When you understand that, you can communicate that. I am going to put that question to you, Ray, because you have all these relationships you have built, whether it’s a staff member or a volunteer. What are some of the things people are saying when the question, “Why do you work with Rise Against Hunger?” comes up?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> We get the same answer all the time. We engage about a quarter of a million to 350,000 volunteers a year now. We engage them to a meal packaging program that allows- It’s an inter-generational program that lasts two hours where volunteers package high-protein dehydrated meals for school feeding programs internationally. It is a beautiful entrance into making a difference on hunger. We get the same responses every time we ask people. We don’t usually have to ask them. First of all, they say it’s so much fun. We can make a difference. We are having an impact. They can see the connection between their hands and their heart. It’s one thing to write a check and for some people that’s exactly what they need. More and more people in the millennial generation want to be physically involved in what they are committing themselves to. Giving volunteers a chance to be involved makes all the difference in the world.</p> <p>The same thing is true for boards. I am passionate about growing boards because a high-powered, high-impact board really empowers an organization to reach the next level. It’s the same for every level of volunteering. Giving people a chance to make a difference where they can see it and feel it makes all the difference in the world. People come back time and time again to our events because not only are they interacting with other people and having a good time, but they also know when they put those meals in the box, the next time that box is opened, it will be at a school somewhere where the kids would not be able to come to school without those meals. They know they are transforming lives. That is so important.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You sort of understanding the fun part of that. My church in Blacksburg did this. In two hours, how many pounds of food do we package?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> You probably package 10,000 meals.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> 10,000 meals we packaged in two hours. They have an area director that comes in and tells people all the resources there, the boxes, the gloves. It is a very sanitary process. It’s like an energy field where we are doing stuff, and it’s like a church social event. It’s like games. Like games for families at church. This is far better. We are doing something worthwhile. It is really an energized process where people package. They tell us exactly what is going to happen to it. We put it in those boxes. We take it out, it goes into a truck. Whoosh. It’s gone. I was very impressed with the organization. It’s like turnkey, boom.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> That is part of the secret. The turnkey part of it. The thing is, the more people you have involved in this process, the more fun it becomes. We have done events. One of my favorite events was done in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. We had one university with four campuses. They packaged a million meals in seven hours using 4,000 students in four locations. It was just awesome. It was electric. We do million meal events all the time.</p> <p>One of the most exciting events I have done recently was February a year ago when Kraft Heinz merged. They brought all their senior leaders from around the world together for their first gathering. They asked Rise Against Hunger to come and do a team building event by packaging meals. They wanted to package a tractor trailer load of meals, 285,000 meals. They wanted to do it in two hours. They had roughly 900-1,000 employees from around the world. Not employees, leaders. These are senior leaders. They came, and this was to merge the Kraft people and the Heinz people together. They had such a blast. The CEO of Kraft-Heinz was in there among them going from table to table, talking about what they were accomplishing. They are one of our biggest corporate partners now. They were then as well. The energy in the room, when you can have that many people working on the same thing, interacting with people you normally wouldn’t interact with, it’s magic.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What is the website where people can go find out about this?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Riseagainsthunger.org.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Riseagainsthunger. It will be listed in the podcast notes and TheNonProfitExchangeorg. It is listed there along with your pretty picture. We will work the logo as well.</p> <p>The story about getting started is pretty dramatic. I will fund if you start a nrw organization. Talk about it today. How many countries, how many pounds of food, how much reach?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> We started in 1998. For the first seven years, we were a crisis relief organization. I was in the Marines, so I am being comfortable being in sketchy situations. We focused on getting into areas where the larger organizations either couldn’t go, wouldn’t go. We were a fast operation. I mean we would go in faster than most organizations and make stuff happen. I always wanted to move away from crisis relief into a more sustainable attack on hunger. Our original board donor who gave me all the money was not interested in that. His idea of feeding the hungry was crisis relief only. After about seven years, we had some board transition and a lot of other stuff. It was about that time where the Christmas tsunami hit. I found an organization that was doing meal packaging. I came back from visiting with them and said we are going to do this. That time, I had three staff people. We are going to start this in two months. They all laughed at me. We were able to get it started in two months. The first year, we started meal packaging, we meal packaged 1.1 million meals. The second year was 3.1. This year, we will package 75 million meals for the hungry.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> 75 million from the start of 1.1 million.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> My goodness.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Now we have offices in 20 cities in the United States. We now have offices in five countries. I always said I didn’t want to raise a flag in other countries. We didn’t do that until we absolutely had to. What I mean by that is we don’t set up offices in countries to distribute meals. But implementing partners that do that well, they know what they’re doing. So many countries came to us and said, “We want to package meals and engage volunteers in our country.” South Africa was the first. We looked around, and South Africa had all the resources necessary to package meals. We started working in South Africa. Then Malaysia, the Philippines, Italy. We have a list of six or seven countries that want us to come in and start offices. But we are very careful about going and starting offices. They have to have all the resources available, and it has to be a wonderful thing. South Africa for example, they will package 8 or 9 million meals this year themselves. But what they have done is they have talked to the United States so much. This is the fun part about when you have work as partners.</p> <p>The situation in South Africa is completely different than the United States. They have lots of volunteers, but no funding. The churches in South Africa don’t have a financial base. They had to start going to corporate donors where we weren’t using corporate donors in the United States so much. The corporations got behind what they were doing and gave significant amounts of funds. We went to school and said, “If they are doing it, why don’t we work on that?” Our corporate income has grown by over 70% because we went to school with what South Africa was doing. We learn from each other that way.</p> <p>In the Philippines, our office there said we use dehydrated vegetables in our meals. Rather than buy those on the market, why don’t we get farmers to grow them so they can have a sustainable livelihood? They have cooperative farms where the farmers know that when they grow these vegetables, they will be bought at a fair price. Now they are getting the production ready to where these can be dehydrated, which will employ more people. They have the value chain from growing the vegetables to putting them in the meals. Employing lots of people. In India, they are doing other things.</p> <p>Every country operates as its own entity. In fact, I just came back from the Philippines a couple month ago where we had our first strategic global gathering where we are trying to figure out how to operate as a more global organization rather than the U.S. and affiliates. I can’t say enough about the board in the United States willing to look at that and say, “We can be one among equals rather than being paternalistic about it.” It’s a huge sea change, but it’s fun to see that happening. Never envisioned when I stepped out and started Rise Against Hunger, we had probably 148 employees in the United States in five countries. It keeps growing because it’s doing what it says it needs to do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are hitting our last five minutes in a wrap here. Russ, do you have some comments or questions for our guest today?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Innovate and collaborate. That is the name of the game. That’s what you are doing. You can spread the impact. The sum is more powerful than the parts. It’s an ideal model. That’s what high performance nonprofits do. I commend you on that. You are doing a remarkable job. What is the big goal for 2018? What is the takeaway? What is the impact that you want to bring in 2018?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Probably, we are in our strategic planning process now. We have just gone from one year budgeting to three year budgeting. In ’18, we are going to probably 100 million meals. That is just a part of all that is going on. Our global model will be to be implemented in ‘18 and hopefully by 2020, that will be fully operational. It’s more collaboration in ’18 than we have ever had, even in ’16 or ’17.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want you to be thinking about a parting word or sponsor that you have for people who want to do something but are afraid to do it and think it’s an uphill battle or impossible. You have given them a great story, but what advice do you have?</p> <p>Ray Buchanan, this has been an inspirational hour. You said how long is it going to be? I said, as long as it takes. Well, we could talk all day. As we are wrapping this interview up, what word of encouragement or what thought do you have for people who have a great idea like that but they are afraid to get started or don’t know where to start?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Let the preacher come out of me for a minute. Three points. First, I think it’s faithfulness. You have to be faithful to what you know is right and what you know you’re called to do. That means doing it. The second is vision. When you are faithful to that vision, people will see that and respond to it. The third is get off your buts, and act on that vision. Faithfulness, vision, and action: those three things are what allow you to do far more than you ever imagined you could do. It’s what encourages people to get in and work with you. Those three things, you do that, and you can make a difference in the world. I think that’s what we are all trying to do is change the world forever. I tell people Rise Against Hunger, the vision is to create a world without hunger. Very simple. What we are really trying to do is change the world forever. I want to be a part of that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Little bit at a time. One person at a time. You have compounded that over the years. Ray Buchanan, thank you for spending time with us and sharing your story. Thank you, Russ.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Thanks, Russ.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thank you.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Nonprofits That Work: Journey's Dream</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofits-that-work-journeys-dream</link>
      <description>Mark Hattas has, amongst other accomplishments, started, built and sold a $20M/yr tech company. He was later diagnosed with Bipolar I Disorder and told there was no cure.  Mark didn’t believe the prognosis and through study, faith, and practice, Mark lived into his faith that he could be well.  He is so thankful to all who have helped, and to God.  He is committed to help others and give them hope and paths to success as well.  This inspiration in 2012 led him to pursue and eventually co-found HSI and Journey’s Dream.  The dream will be realized when all people can find hope and well-being.
 More information at http://journeysdream.org
 Transcript of the Interview
  
 Hugh: Welcome to this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. We always have special people, but these people are really special because they invited me to participate in the foundational strategy building for their vision for bringing amazing resources to others. I want to introduce these two people. Russell, say hello from Denver, Colorado.
 Russell: It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood and a beautiful day to be here with Mark and Mitzi. I look forward to a wonderful chat today. They are doing great work here.
 Hugh: Russell and I co-host this, and we have some fascinating conversations with people that are doing amazing things. This particular chain of interviews is about people who are doing real things in the real world. The ones we have done previously have been organizations that have been in existence for a while. This one is a young organization, but they are really making some traction. They are doing some really good stuff. I wanted to interview them about how they got started and what kind of traction they are making and what their plans are and how they impact lives.
 Mark, let’s start with Mark Hattas. You tell us a little bit about your journey, who you are, and why you’re doing this. Then throw it to Mitzi and let her introduce herself and her role in this. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange, Mark.
 Mark: Thank you so much. Great to be her with both of you, good friends, and Mitzi. *audio cut* My revenue stream, or one of them, one of the things that I had the pleasure of doing early in my career is I built and sold a tech company. About nine months after that, I had a very unique experience where I started experiencing the world much differently than I had previously. I went into what is commonly called mania. I was diagnosed bipolar I, and I was in and out of the hospital three times over a three-year period. I was told right away that I would not get well, and I would be on medication the rest of my life. Most of what we know about the brain we learned in the 1990s, and the world of psychology was still navigating what was really going on. The hospital with that kind of prognosis. It was inspired maybe two months after that, after I had an unusual experience where I was terrified that I was going to have to live my life with my brain in the mode that it was in. So I started to seek solutions, and thank God there were solutions out there. There are amazing practitioners, amazing resources, and I applied them, I practiced them, and I got well. For over three years, I have been off all medication and have been very healthy.
 Over that course of a period of time, I met Mitzi and her husband Rex and her daughter Brea and learned about what was happening in their lives. We joined together to start what’s called Hattas Shay International Foundation, which its project is called Journey’s Dream, to help those with mental health challenges find resources and get to a place where they could really believe again that they could get well and then have the strength and the tools to start to go out and navigate their health and well-being with the best support mechanisms that can serve them. We are a hub that creates that environment. We are still building, but we have had some great traction so far. Mitzi?
 Mitzi: My name is Mitzi Montague-Bauer. My son Journey is symptomatic in his senior year at University of Michigan. At first, we thought it was his quirky behavior or something. We didn’t really understand the magnitude of what was happening until he graduated and came home. There were several diagnoses as they didn’t present the same way each time. The first doctor thought he had schizophrenia. After that, he was diagnosed with bipolar and depression and manic disorder and a lot of them actually. He was told the same thing that Mark was told: that he would never get well. There was no cure. The best we could hope for was to manage the symptoms and that would be a lifetime of medication.
 I didn’t want to believe that. I didn’t believe it. It seemed that the more he heard it, the more he began to believe it. During that time, I spent countless hours looking for the solution that we now know is available, but they were difficult to find. I spent a lot of time searching for any solution that had a different prognosis. By the time I felt confident with the solutions and the collection of modalities that I had collected, Journey was no longer interested. In the beginning, he was open to help. By the time I felt like I had the answers, he had isolated himself, and didn’t seem to trust anyone. It became apparent to me that if we had had these solutions in the beginning, perhaps there would have been a different outcome. Journey, after three and a half years of struggling with his mental health and being told he would not get well, he stepped off of a building and ended his life. Because of the lack of- Well, the solutions were there, but they were difficult to find, and there wasn’t really one place to find them.
 The vision that we share is that there would be a place, if a family member or a loved one or someone who is struggling landed on our site, that they would have a whole collection of solutions, possibilities to meet them where they were. Those solutions could be medication. There is a place for medication. A whole slew of other opportunities.
 Hugh: Thank you for sharing that. That is an important message. Mark, to declare that SynerVision has been working with this project from the onset. We started putting together the pieces in Mitzi’s basement with Mitzi, her husband, her daughter, you, and me. We worked really hard for a couple of days getting our heads around what this looks like. That was not really the starting point, but it was the launchpoint where you were able to then say we are doing this for real and we are moving ahead. Why did you decide to put this in the framework of a tax-exempt charity?
 Mark: I’d built the for-profit organization. When I started to learn about the power of the tax-exempt organizations, it allows for people to give to a cause that they believe in and the way that they can and have tax benefits. It gives an opportunity to donate funds, provide in-kind services—for example, there is an organization helping us with our technology for the practitioner network. They are donating all the framework and developing even. That would have cost us quite a lot of money otherwise. Because it is for the greater good of the broader population, we didn’t really see a need for any one of us or any group to own it. We wanted it to be available for all, and we are the stewards of it. So we really looked from the beginning at this organization being something that is a gift to all of those people who were in a situation like Journey’s situation, or my situation, and the many that exist out there. Tax-exempt has made a whole lot of sense.
 When we spoke with Sherita Herring, she helped us set that up and reeducated me, retooled my brain, along with you, on what the power of tax-exempt is and how much funding is actually out there and available, and support. We took advantage of your expertise and knowledge to set this up right from the beginning.
 Hugh: There is a lot of power in philanthropic giving, both in individual donors. We were on a call with Sherita last night. She is one of our partners in SynerVision. Actually, she helped me create my foundation years ago. She is a queen of nonprofit information. She knows the right stuff. We have been on a journey equipping the culture to then step up to where you need to be.
 I have been impressed with how systematic you have been. You have tried not to short-cycle everything. You have taken things in stride, in sequence, and really let the different stages of this play out and mature without cutting it short. I commend you for that. So many people starting organizations like this want to get there and want to get it done. They leave a lot of stuff in the garbage on the side of the road on the way. You have been very systematic in developing this. I commend you for that. Russell, I know a little more about this because I have been involved with him for a year and a half. We decided we worked together for 365 non-continuous days. It’s been a pace that’s been very logical.
 Mark, you’ve created some programs, and you have done some beta tests on the programs. Talk a little bit about who those programs are for and the impact that program has had and will have on people’s lives.
 Mark: The intent long-term is to have a whole hub of many programs. We have a few through affiliate partners, but we also- One of the things that we co-created with Rookha Group is a program called the Optimal Being program. The Optimal Being program is absolutely by far the core of what I did to navigate the brain dynamics that were spinning around in me and get to a place where I could start to navigate the world in a more healthy way.
 There are three things that occur in the Optimal Beam program. One is the awakening of the inner guidance system. It’s really incredible that every human being innately has an inner guidance system, but so many people have conflicts within it and their programming that has them doing things on automatic decision-making that is not really constructive for their lives. What this does is help to soften that, release those beliefs and ideas that aren’t really serving us anymore, and get to a place where the inner guidance system is listened to and it comes alive in us and it really leaves us to what’s optimal for us. Mitzi mentioned sometimes medication is the optimal thing for someone in the beginning stages, so go for it and do it. Listen to those doctors. Believe the diagnosis they give you, but don’t believe the prognosis if they are not telling you you can get well. Allowing for that inner guidance system to come on gives people confidence. It gives them courage. It’s a healthy courage. It realigns their personal code of decision-making from one that could be negative and destructive to one that is always constructive. That is a key thing with the Optimal Being program.
 Another thing that happens there is community. Here is people that come together who are also going through life’s challenges. To learn these tools together and to come to a community where people are in a like situation or like-minded, they are seeking solutions, that accelerates everyone’s health and wellbeing. Ideas are shared in there that the facilitators may have never thought of. One of the people who are participating is contributing as well. People are both giving to the group and receiving from the group. It’s a combination of self-instructional programs as well as a weekly online part of the program.
 The other thing is there is metrics. At the beginning of the Optimal Being program, we allow someone to go into ten categories of their human behavior. These are things that are like self-love. How is that going for someone? If love of self is really low, maintaining love while thinking about themselves is really low. There are some tools that we teach to support increasing that. Maintaining love while thinking of others, maintaining love while actually approaching truth. There is ten of these categories. We measure them in the beginning, and at the end of the 13-week program online, we measure it again.
 It is fascinating to see how dramatically people change. These are core human development skills that could be taught to a fifth grader or even younger. When someone integrates them into their life, whenever they face something that is a challenge, instead of going to historical patterns of coping mechanisms, they start to have tools that are foundational human tools to start to realize what potential lies within them and have it start to come out in the world. The transformations we have seen in corporate leaders, people who thought they were actually doing fine but wanted to get to the next level, and people who have challenges is profound.
 Hugh: It’s not just for people who are having—I forget how to title it—severe emotional issues. It’s not just for people in that profile.
 Mark: No, it could be someone who is going through a breakup from a relationship and they are sad. It could be a loss of a loved one, and they are going through that grieving process. It could be any number of things that creates in someone the desire to seek something where they are going to feel better. When people feel better and they get to a joyous, and Mitzi knows well about this, place in life, one of the things that starts to occur is their life self-perpetuates in a positive direction. We want to help people navigate through that, so we teach the opposite of the way they were taught in the world when they were growing up. It’s like a rewiring of some of the processes they had been using. Mitzi, I don’t know if you want to ask anything to that part.
 Mitzi: I thought you did a beautiful job summarizing.
 Hugh: Mark, what is the name of that program? The Optimal Bean program?
 Mark: It’s called the Optimal Being Program.
 Hugh: It’s my age and mental condition.
 Mark: We have tools and technologies. There is an app online that is actually free. People can go download- If they do a search on their phone on “Rookha Group,” they will find the Optimal Being app. It is a powerful app that helps to heal relationships with the commitments tool and to practice maintaining love and the breathing properly as they face a challenging situation. That alone is healing.
 Hugh: Spell Rookha.
 Mark: R-o-o-k-h-a.
 Hugh: R-o-o-k-h-a.
 Mark: You might be able to type in Optimal Being and get it at this point, too. It’s been up there long enough I think you could type in either one.
 Hugh: Optimal Being. O-p-t-i-m-a-l B-e-i-n-g. So Mark, this is not coaching. It’s not counseling. It’s not therapy. What is it?
 Mark: We’re like a group of people who have been there and have navigated this. We are educated mentors. I am someone who has gone into it and out of it. When someone does that, they develop a certain set of skills and support others in getting to a place of hope. I don’t think anybody in our organization—Mitzi, correct me if I’m wrong—but I think every single person in our organization sees the human beingness in a person. Never have we seen any kind of diagnosis or some kind of illness. It’s not the way we look at it. We look at it more like-
 There is a great analogy of the caterpillar to butterfly. Imagine that the caterpillar goes in to the chrysalis, and then everyone starts to say how awful they are because they don’t look like a caterpillar anymore and they are stupid and can’t do this and can’t do that. The caterpillar is transforming. If we suppress that transformation, we are going to have some funky-looking caterpillars. If they didn’t allow the chrysalis process, they are going to be angry, frustrated, grumpy, and eventually fall into depression because they are denying that natural, innate, transformative state. When somebody actually goes into who it is they truly are and they do it with the tools that exist in many different forms, we happen to give them in the way that we learned them. It supports someone having the courage to do what they are innately guided to do. That is why when I was mentioning inner guidance systems it’s like listening to yourself, but letting go of all the noise that was in the way, creating conflict within a person.
 Hugh: I love it. Mitzi, I have appreciated you on our team calls and live work together. You ask really good questions when everybody else is letting it fly by and wondering what that meant. You say, “Wait a minute.” Your attention to detail is very acute. But you always ask it in a very generous and kind way. Instead of putting anybody down, you say, “Would you explain that again? Is it this or that?”
 First off, talk about your son. This project is named Journey’s Dream. Why did you step up to want to be in this core team of four people? I guess it’s four people. This core team of champions that are really making it happen. Talk about yourself, and then talk about the other two that aren’t here, Rex and Brea.
 Mitzi: That inner guidance system that Mark was just talking about was what led me to be one of the founders. I again saw a deficit when I looked at the mental health situation on the planet. The suicide attempts and the actual suicides and the message that people hear when they get a diagnosis is one that we wonder why is a stigma. When you get that diagnosis, if you get a diagnosis of schizophrenia and went home and Googled that, that would put you right in the depression, I think. You probably wouldn’t want to talk about it. The prognosis is awful. I would love to see the core messaging changing around mental illness. What would have happened with Journey if he was told that he was in a transformational process or that he could get well? That is a different message. A lot of people who are experiencing these states of mania are brilliant. They are on a genius spectrum. They are navigating different things than we are. I think if they had these tools that are available, it would be a different outcome entirely. I was motivated by that, and this is what I was being guided by, too.
 The other two founders are Rex Montague-Bauer, my husband and Journey’s father. Rex and I have been students of these principles that are a lot of the core principles of the Optimal Being. We have been students for a while of that and do our best to practice those in our lives. Our daughter Brea is the fourth founder, Journey’s sister. She is a brilliant human being, compassionate. We are all inspired by the same thing: to see a different outcome for people who receive a mental health diagnosis or who are just challenged in general.
 Hugh: This is a high-functioning team. You all work really well together. That is not the case for every team. Russell, I met Mark at the very first ever SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium. I think it was called Leadership Excellence then. It was in Chicago. Mark met me at a CEO Space gathering the week or two before, and he decided he’d sign up and come. We got connected there. We had conversations. He checked me out for about a year before he- He wanted to make sure I wasn’t a flake and was there to stay. Then we started working together. We have had some very deep conversations over time.
 I am really a fan of Mark and Mitzi and the team as well as what they are doing. So we have been on a journey ourselves. Mark, thank you for inviting me on the journey. It has been a pleasure to be there with you. It has touched me in many ways I hadn’t realized I could be touched. It has been an important journey for me just to watch and participate. Russell, what do you see and hear that you want to comment on? I’m sure you have found a couple questions you’d like to throw back at our guests.
 Russell: I’d like to thank you both for coming here and sharing your story. We have powerful why’s, and that is critical to everything. The idea of paying it forward. What we are talking about is raising our level of consciousness. This is something that everybody can do. There is a lot of power in interacting with people who get it. There is a lot of fear and stigma around the idea of a mental diagnosis, but a diagnosis does not define you. Just looking at the alternative complementary types of solutions is critical because it’s not all about poppin’ a pill. It’s about a mental and emotional and spiritual connection and going within and finding that thing that is inside you that can make all things better. To be fair, I think Hugh scared you off with- Mark is probably in earshot when you let loose one of the age and mental condition things. He does that every once in a while, but he is a brilliant man. I know that you had a long journey to figuring out that the idea of raising your consciousness and being around other people who experience the same thing, how did you come to the conclusion that this was the actual solution? Tell me about how that journey took place.
 Mark: First, I don’t know that it would be fair to say that it was the actual solution meaning if you are referring- Are you referring to my own health or the creation of Journey’s Dream?
 Russell: The creation of Journey’s Dream as a way to move forward is really- That is my term for raising your level of consciousness, connecting with that is strong and valuable.
 Mark: I apologize. I misunderstood the question at first. With regard to- How did we discover that Journey’s Dream was the solution? It goes back to trusting that inner guidance system and listening. One of the things that we discovered along the way is we want to be very collaborative with other organizations. We want to be inclusive. We believe that there is a place for medication, and there are many organizations who have gone through mental health recovery processes who are against the medication. If I didn’t have the medication, I’m not sure I’d still be here. It served me well while it served me. It was more that there was more, and it stopped serving me at some point in a way that I felt like I could really achieve my heart’s desire.
 We wanted to give people access to programs like the Optimal Being program, where they could tap in and tune in and get to that higher consciousness that is going to optimally serve them and give them other tools that could meet them where they are today. They may not be seeking that today; they might just be feeling really miserable and not want to get out of bed. They would like to wake up one day and feel a little better. They are not seeking some lofty thing, but to them, that is very lofty. To get back in touch with who is it that they really are and what is it they are really here to do?
 We had a belief that if we as a group take care of the stuff that was in our system that was not going to serve Journey’s Dream, that we would always know the optimal next step and the optimal step we were in would have the proper attention and focus to be executed optimally. We just did an event in November at Soldier Field. Our first event ever was at Soldier Field in the Midway Room there. There were a couple hundred people there. More than that, it was the BDSA, the Bipolar Depression Support Alliance was there supporting this. Nami Metro were bringing in- They do stuff with the arts. I am not a big art kind of person, but to see what they are doing to give people who are struggling with mental health the opportunity to sing and play music and explore what it is that is going on inside them in a different way, that is extraordinary. There was a faith-based counseling organization that came and supported called Sumeric Care. I am not going to remember them all right now, but they all came together and collaborated to realize a vision. There is a VA organization in Illinois, Joining Forces, and the Illinois Department of Human Services was even there. That is unheard of in my world before that to see these groups come together and say, “You know what? We are going to stand for something, which is we believe that there is a path for all people to get well.” We may not know it today. There might not be a cookbook recipe that is on the shelf. But when we start to bring resources together and collaborate, that is when solutions can be found. That is when the optimal support can come out.
 We had a half dozen practitioners that committed to come. They spoke and changed people’s lives, just by letting people know that these doctors who see patients every day were telling them something different than what they had heard in the hospital, which is you can get well. Just to hear that from another doctor, all of a sudden, all the belief systems around what their condition is collapsed. They had to walk out of there with a remodeled and reconfigured belief system. If they say I can get well, then I can. That is a huge thing.
 Then we had a few celebrities there who were extraordinary, too. David Stanley, who is Elvis Presley’s brother, was there sharing his story and the story of Elvis and the opioids and that process and giving people hope that they can get to the other side of that, and his own depression and stuff he has been going through. The founder of Make-a-Wish Foundation talking about how he had PTSD early on in his career, and his partner who had taken his life. Because Frank Shankwitz dealt with it in a different way and found a solution for him, Make-a-Wish Foundation exists today, one of the most successful not-for-profits. That was another reason we wanted him there, to let people know that there is hope for people struggling, but also we wanted him to express that Journey’s Dream might be at the beginning just like Make-a-Wish was after he was going through his recovery process and had the opportunity to do something pretty cool.
 These not-for-profit organizations can be run like real companies and provide real services, real value, create income streams that produce impact that is huge. Make-a-Wish is doing a few hundred million a year in their overall umbrella. That is the kind of organization we see building. A global organization that can have that impact. That is why we hired Hugh. If we are going to build a sustainable, real organization, we waned someone who has been there and done that. Hugh Ballou helps not-for-profits all over the planet to do and set up for success. If you have something that you really believe in and you have a passion behind it, trust yourself and hire the resources that are truly going to help you in your situation set up for success.
 Hugh: Thank you for that. I certainly have had enough rehearsal doing this. Mark and Mitzi, tell people where they can go to find out more information.
 Mitzi: You can go to our website, which is journeysdream.org. That would be the place to begin.
 Hugh: Journeysdream.org. What will people find there?
 Mitzi: They will find our website, which we are going through the process of making some changes to now as we have grown in the four months since we first launched the website. They will find a beginning of a practitioner’s network. They will find the Optimal Being and other resources we are offering. There will also be a place for practitioners where we are inviting practitioners to join us if they see fit. There is a place for practitioners, and there is a place for family members or people who are struggling looking for solutions. They will see what solutions we have, and they will see the vision for what we have for our future.
 Hugh: Did you think when we were in your basement putting stickies on the boards that this would go here in this period of time?
 Mitzi: No, sir, I did not.
 Mark: One more thing. From a context standpoint, we have grown within a handful of weeks to over 600 followers on Facebook. If you go to the Journey’s Dream page on Facebook and follow us, you will not only be getting things about Journey’s Dream, but things about mental health and innovative approaches and solutions over time. Encourage people to do that as well.
 Hugh: What’s next, Mark? What’s next in your radar of accomplishments for 2018?
 Mark: In a week, December 4th, we are launching another Optimal Being program. Anyone who is interested in that, it’s a 13-week program. You can go to the website under Educational Programs and click on Optimal Being. You can read more about it and sign up and register if you like. That’s one thing.
 2018 is going to be a year of automating that program so we can get it to a lower cost; forming additional partners and building out the practitioner network; and building a fund so that people who can’t get the kinds of care that insurance doesn’t cover that they can get some additional support in paying for those services. Some of those services that I have had the benefit of don’t take insurance, so we want to educate people about those but also be good stewards of funds that come in so that part of those funds get allocated to address one of the biggest issues in mental health, which is it’s really expensive to get the good care that is going to help someone navigate their own life to a healthy state of being.
 Hugh: Awesome. Journeysdream.org. There is resources now, and there is resources that are coming. The Facebook page is also called Journey’s Dream?
 Mark: Yes.
 Hugh: Russell, what are you thinking?
 Russell: I am thinking I love what you’re doing. It’s wonderful. I’d like to say that I have looked at the website. There is something there for everyone who has been touched in some way with a diagnosis of a mental illness. Having to face that fear, there is a lot of fear, a lot of stigma around that. But it’s important to connect with people who get it. Mark and Mitzi get it. If it’s you, if it’s a loved one, go to Journeysdream.org and get connected. Talk with somebody. Happy Giving Tuesday by the way. It is Giving Tuesday. Take a few minutes after this broadcast and go to that site and plug in. If you do nothing else, subscribe to the email list, get the information, and give it a listen because a lot of the things that can be seen as solutions here are not the conventional things. They are not the things people tell you, things like mindfulness. Some of this stuff might seem like it’s touchy-feely, but it saves lives. Take a minute to consider something a little bit different than what you have been taught because your life’s on the line. These are folks who have been there and they get it. It’s facing that fear and knowing that yeah, there are some other solutions but they are only solutions if you take time to plug in and do it. Go to Facebook. Go to the web. Get plugged in. Make a donation. Sign up. This is a gift to give yourself and maybe a loved one for Giving Tuesday.
 That is my two cents. Again, thank you so much Mark and Mitzi for what you’re doing here because you’re saving lives. This is going to grow beyond anything you’ve ever imagined.
 Mark: Thank you, Russell. Thank you, Hugh.
 Mitzi: Thank you.
 Hugh: That is really good. I’d like to ask you to think about a closing thought. I’ll ask Mitzi to go first, then Mark.
 As we wrap up here in this really good story that you guys have shared, Mitzi, what is your closing thought for our listeners?
 Mitzi: I guess I would like for everyone to challenge themselves when they see a homeless person or someone who looks different than them on the street or on the bus or in your community, don’t make an assumption that you know anything about that person. They may have a Ph. D. My son had a degree in economics. Mark, who is brilliant. Extend compassion. Look them in the eyes as a fellow traveler who is sometimes on a challenging path. Offer some compassion. That would be my thought. It is something that has changed in me since Journey’s experience, and I would love to see more of it.
 Hugh: Great. Thank you. Mark?
 Mark: If you could think of one person in your life who is struggling now or who has struggled in the past, I would say just reach out to them and give them the URL. Say this podcast, this Facebook live, it looked interesting. Let them know it exists. One of the things that I experienced early on is people don’t know how to talk to people who are going through a challenge. We want to change that. We want to give them those tools. Whether it’s a mother or a father or a son or a daughter or a friend or spouse, what is it we can do to support? One thing you can do is let them know you are thinking about them, whether it’s saying Journeysdream.org website or Facebook page. That is not the point. The point is let them know you’re thinking about them. Send them things that can be constructive, that could really help them. If they deny that they are able to be helped, they may not like it. But you know what? Someday they will remember it because all people can find a path to health and well-being. Allow yourself to be in the face of those experiences. Be the presence of love. We are all called to be. If someone does come at you and say, “Hey, you shouldn’t have done this or that,” and they are triggered, recognize what is going on inside them, but do it from love, not because you want to heal them or get them better. Do it from love. As you think about them, think about what it is you could do to really be of service.
 Hugh: Awesome words. Awesome words. Russell, thanks for being here. It is such a consistent supporter. Mitzi, Mark, thank you for sharing your story. It has been powerful indeed.
 Mitzi: My pleasure.
 Mark: Thank you so much for having us.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2017 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/7fecd922-b329-11eb-9f0f-0b6e957cf173/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Mark Hattas and Mitzi Montague-Bauer Share the Story</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Mark Hattas has, amongst other accomplishments, started, built and sold a $20M/yr tech company. He was later diagnosed with Bipolar I Disorder and told there was no cure.  Mark didn’t believe the prognosis and through study, faith, and practice, Mark lived into his faith that he could be well.  He is so thankful to all who have helped, and to God.  He is committed to help others and give them hope and paths to success as well.  This inspiration in 2012 led him to pursue and eventually co-found HSI and Journey’s Dream.  The dream will be realized when all people can find hope and well-being.
 More information at http://journeysdream.org
 Transcript of the Interview
  
 Hugh: Welcome to this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. We always have special people, but these people are really special because they invited me to participate in the foundational strategy building for their vision for bringing amazing resources to others. I want to introduce these two people. Russell, say hello from Denver, Colorado.
 Russell: It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood and a beautiful day to be here with Mark and Mitzi. I look forward to a wonderful chat today. They are doing great work here.
 Hugh: Russell and I co-host this, and we have some fascinating conversations with people that are doing amazing things. This particular chain of interviews is about people who are doing real things in the real world. The ones we have done previously have been organizations that have been in existence for a while. This one is a young organization, but they are really making some traction. They are doing some really good stuff. I wanted to interview them about how they got started and what kind of traction they are making and what their plans are and how they impact lives.
 Mark, let’s start with Mark Hattas. You tell us a little bit about your journey, who you are, and why you’re doing this. Then throw it to Mitzi and let her introduce herself and her role in this. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange, Mark.
 Mark: Thank you so much. Great to be her with both of you, good friends, and Mitzi. *audio cut* My revenue stream, or one of them, one of the things that I had the pleasure of doing early in my career is I built and sold a tech company. About nine months after that, I had a very unique experience where I started experiencing the world much differently than I had previously. I went into what is commonly called mania. I was diagnosed bipolar I, and I was in and out of the hospital three times over a three-year period. I was told right away that I would not get well, and I would be on medication the rest of my life. Most of what we know about the brain we learned in the 1990s, and the world of psychology was still navigating what was really going on. The hospital with that kind of prognosis. It was inspired maybe two months after that, after I had an unusual experience where I was terrified that I was going to have to live my life with my brain in the mode that it was in. So I started to seek solutions, and thank God there were solutions out there. There are amazing practitioners, amazing resources, and I applied them, I practiced them, and I got well. For over three years, I have been off all medication and have been very healthy.
 Over that course of a period of time, I met Mitzi and her husband Rex and her daughter Brea and learned about what was happening in their lives. We joined together to start what’s called Hattas Shay International Foundation, which its project is called Journey’s Dream, to help those with mental health challenges find resources and get to a place where they could really believe again that they could get well and then have the strength and the tools to start to go out and navigate their health and well-being with the best support mechanisms that can serve them. We are a hub that creates that environment. We are still building, but we have had some great traction so far. Mitzi?
 Mitzi: My name is Mitzi Montague-Bauer. My son Journey is symptomatic in his senior year at University of Michigan. At first, we thought it was his quirky behavior or something. We didn’t really understand the magnitude of what was happening until he graduated and came home. There were several diagnoses as they didn’t present the same way each time. The first doctor thought he had schizophrenia. After that, he was diagnosed with bipolar and depression and manic disorder and a lot of them actually. He was told the same thing that Mark was told: that he would never get well. There was no cure. The best we could hope for was to manage the symptoms and that would be a lifetime of medication.
 I didn’t want to believe that. I didn’t believe it. It seemed that the more he heard it, the more he began to believe it. During that time, I spent countless hours looking for the solution that we now know is available, but they were difficult to find. I spent a lot of time searching for any solution that had a different prognosis. By the time I felt confident with the solutions and the collection of modalities that I had collected, Journey was no longer interested. In the beginning, he was open to help. By the time I felt like I had the answers, he had isolated himself, and didn’t seem to trust anyone. It became apparent to me that if we had had these solutions in the beginning, perhaps there would have been a different outcome. Journey, after three and a half years of struggling with his mental health and being told he would not get well, he stepped off of a building and ended his life. Because of the lack of- Well, the solutions were there, but they were difficult to find, and there wasn’t really one place to find them.
 The vision that we share is that there would be a place, if a family member or a loved one or someone who is struggling landed on our site, that they would have a whole collection of solutions, possibilities to meet them where they were. Those solutions could be medication. There is a place for medication. A whole slew of other opportunities.
 Hugh: Thank you for sharing that. That is an important message. Mark, to declare that SynerVision has been working with this project from the onset. We started putting together the pieces in Mitzi’s basement with Mitzi, her husband, her daughter, you, and me. We worked really hard for a couple of days getting our heads around what this looks like. That was not really the starting point, but it was the launchpoint where you were able to then say we are doing this for real and we are moving ahead. Why did you decide to put this in the framework of a tax-exempt charity?
 Mark: I’d built the for-profit organization. When I started to learn about the power of the tax-exempt organizations, it allows for people to give to a cause that they believe in and the way that they can and have tax benefits. It gives an opportunity to donate funds, provide in-kind services—for example, there is an organization helping us with our technology for the practitioner network. They are donating all the framework and developing even. That would have cost us quite a lot of money otherwise. Because it is for the greater good of the broader population, we didn’t really see a need for any one of us or any group to own it. We wanted it to be available for all, and we are the stewards of it. So we really looked from the beginning at this organization being something that is a gift to all of those people who were in a situation like Journey’s situation, or my situation, and the many that exist out there. Tax-exempt has made a whole lot of sense.
 When we spoke with Sherita Herring, she helped us set that up and reeducated me, retooled my brain, along with you, on what the power of tax-exempt is and how much funding is actually out there and available, and support. We took advantage of your expertise and knowledge to set this up right from the beginning.
 Hugh: There is a lot of power in philanthropic giving, both in individual donors. We were on a call with Sherita last night. She is one of our partners in SynerVision. Actually, she helped me create my foundation years ago. She is a queen of nonprofit information. She knows the right stuff. We have been on a journey equipping the culture to then step up to where you need to be.
 I have been impressed with how systematic you have been. You have tried not to short-cycle everything. You have taken things in stride, in sequence, and really let the different stages of this play out and mature without cutting it short. I commend you for that. So many people starting organizations like this want to get there and want to get it done. They leave a lot of stuff in the garbage on the side of the road on the way. You have been very systematic in developing this. I commend you for that. Russell, I know a little more about this because I have been involved with him for a year and a half. We decided we worked together for 365 non-continuous days. It’s been a pace that’s been very logical.
 Mark, you’ve created some programs, and you have done some beta tests on the programs. Talk a little bit about who those programs are for and the impact that program has had and will have on people’s lives.
 Mark: The intent long-term is to have a whole hub of many programs. We have a few through affiliate partners, but we also- One of the things that we co-created with Rookha Group is a program called the Optimal Being program. The Optimal Being program is absolutely by far the core of what I did to navigate the brain dynamics that were spinning around in me and get to a place where I could start to navigate the world in a more healthy way.
 There are three things that occur in the Optimal Beam program. One is the awakening of the inner guidance system. It’s really incredible that every human being innately has an inner guidance system, but so many people have conflicts within it and their programming that has them doing things on automatic decision-making that is not really constructive for their lives. What this does is help to soften that, release those beliefs and ideas that aren’t really serving us anymore, and get to a place where the inner guidance system is listened to and it comes alive in us and it really leaves us to what’s optimal for us. Mitzi mentioned sometimes medication is the optimal thing for someone in the beginning stages, so go for it and do it. Listen to those doctors. Believe the diagnosis they give you, but don’t believe the prognosis if they are not telling you you can get well. Allowing for that inner guidance system to come on gives people confidence. It gives them courage. It’s a healthy courage. It realigns their personal code of decision-making from one that could be negative and destructive to one that is always constructive. That is a key thing with the Optimal Being program.
 Another thing that happens there is community. Here is people that come together who are also going through life’s challenges. To learn these tools together and to come to a community where people are in a like situation or like-minded, they are seeking solutions, that accelerates everyone’s health and wellbeing. Ideas are shared in there that the facilitators may have never thought of. One of the people who are participating is contributing as well. People are both giving to the group and receiving from the group. It’s a combination of self-instructional programs as well as a weekly online part of the program.
 The other thing is there is metrics. At the beginning of the Optimal Being program, we allow someone to go into ten categories of their human behavior. These are things that are like self-love. How is that going for someone? If love of self is really low, maintaining love while thinking about themselves is really low. There are some tools that we teach to support increasing that. Maintaining love while thinking of others, maintaining love while actually approaching truth. There is ten of these categories. We measure them in the beginning, and at the end of the 13-week program online, we measure it again.
 It is fascinating to see how dramatically people change. These are core human development skills that could be taught to a fifth grader or even younger. When someone integrates them into their life, whenever they face something that is a challenge, instead of going to historical patterns of coping mechanisms, they start to have tools that are foundational human tools to start to realize what potential lies within them and have it start to come out in the world. The transformations we have seen in corporate leaders, people who thought they were actually doing fine but wanted to get to the next level, and people who have challenges is profound.
 Hugh: It’s not just for people who are having—I forget how to title it—severe emotional issues. It’s not just for people in that profile.
 Mark: No, it could be someone who is going through a breakup from a relationship and they are sad. It could be a loss of a loved one, and they are going through that grieving process. It could be any number of things that creates in someone the desire to seek something where they are going to feel better. When people feel better and they get to a joyous, and Mitzi knows well about this, place in life, one of the things that starts to occur is their life self-perpetuates in a positive direction. We want to help people navigate through that, so we teach the opposite of the way they were taught in the world when they were growing up. It’s like a rewiring of some of the processes they had been using. Mitzi, I don’t know if you want to ask anything to that part.
 Mitzi: I thought you did a beautiful job summarizing.
 Hugh: Mark, what is the name of that program? The Optimal Bean program?
 Mark: It’s called the Optimal Being Program.
 Hugh: It’s my age and mental condition.
 Mark: We have tools and technologies. There is an app online that is actually free. People can go download- If they do a search on their phone on “Rookha Group,” they will find the Optimal Being app. It is a powerful app that helps to heal relationships with the commitments tool and to practice maintaining love and the breathing properly as they face a challenging situation. That alone is healing.
 Hugh: Spell Rookha.
 Mark: R-o-o-k-h-a.
 Hugh: R-o-o-k-h-a.
 Mark: You might be able to type in Optimal Being and get it at this point, too. It’s been up there long enough I think you could type in either one.
 Hugh: Optimal Being. O-p-t-i-m-a-l B-e-i-n-g. So Mark, this is not coaching. It’s not counseling. It’s not therapy. What is it?
 Mark: We’re like a group of people who have been there and have navigated this. We are educated mentors. I am someone who has gone into it and out of it. When someone does that, they develop a certain set of skills and support others in getting to a place of hope. I don’t think anybody in our organization—Mitzi, correct me if I’m wrong—but I think every single person in our organization sees the human beingness in a person. Never have we seen any kind of diagnosis or some kind of illness. It’s not the way we look at it. We look at it more like-
 There is a great analogy of the caterpillar to butterfly. Imagine that the caterpillar goes in to the chrysalis, and then everyone starts to say how awful they are because they don’t look like a caterpillar anymore and they are stupid and can’t do this and can’t do that. The caterpillar is transforming. If we suppress that transformation, we are going to have some funky-looking caterpillars. If they didn’t allow the chrysalis process, they are going to be angry, frustrated, grumpy, and eventually fall into depression because they are denying that natural, innate, transformative state. When somebody actually goes into who it is they truly are and they do it with the tools that exist in many different forms, we happen to give them in the way that we learned them. It supports someone having the courage to do what they are innately guided to do. That is why when I was mentioning inner guidance systems it’s like listening to yourself, but letting go of all the noise that was in the way, creating conflict within a person.
 Hugh: I love it. Mitzi, I have appreciated you on our team calls and live work together. You ask really good questions when everybody else is letting it fly by and wondering what that meant. You say, “Wait a minute.” Your attention to detail is very acute. But you always ask it in a very generous and kind way. Instead of putting anybody down, you say, “Would you explain that again? Is it this or that?”
 First off, talk about your son. This project is named Journey’s Dream. Why did you step up to want to be in this core team of four people? I guess it’s four people. This core team of champions that are really making it happen. Talk about yourself, and then talk about the other two that aren’t here, Rex and Brea.
 Mitzi: That inner guidance system that Mark was just talking about was what led me to be one of the founders. I again saw a deficit when I looked at the mental health situation on the planet. The suicide attempts and the actual suicides and the message that people hear when they get a diagnosis is one that we wonder why is a stigma. When you get that diagnosis, if you get a diagnosis of schizophrenia and went home and Googled that, that would put you right in the depression, I think. You probably wouldn’t want to talk about it. The prognosis is awful. I would love to see the core messaging changing around mental illness. What would have happened with Journey if he was told that he was in a transformational process or that he could get well? That is a different message. A lot of people who are experiencing these states of mania are brilliant. They are on a genius spectrum. They are navigating different things than we are. I think if they had these tools that are available, it would be a different outcome entirely. I was motivated by that, and this is what I was being guided by, too.
 The other two founders are Rex Montague-Bauer, my husband and Journey’s father. Rex and I have been students of these principles that are a lot of the core principles of the Optimal Being. We have been students for a while of that and do our best to practice those in our lives. Our daughter Brea is the fourth founder, Journey’s sister. She is a brilliant human being, compassionate. We are all inspired by the same thing: to see a different outcome for people who receive a mental health diagnosis or who are just challenged in general.
 Hugh: This is a high-functioning team. You all work really well together. That is not the case for every team. Russell, I met Mark at the very first ever SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium. I think it was called Leadership Excellence then. It was in Chicago. Mark met me at a CEO Space gathering the week or two before, and he decided he’d sign up and come. We got connected there. We had conversations. He checked me out for about a year before he- He wanted to make sure I wasn’t a flake and was there to stay. Then we started working together. We have had some very deep conversations over time.
 I am really a fan of Mark and Mitzi and the team as well as what they are doing. So we have been on a journey ourselves. Mark, thank you for inviting me on the journey. It has been a pleasure to be there with you. It has touched me in many ways I hadn’t realized I could be touched. It has been an important journey for me just to watch and participate. Russell, what do you see and hear that you want to comment on? I’m sure you have found a couple questions you’d like to throw back at our guests.
 Russell: I’d like to thank you both for coming here and sharing your story. We have powerful why’s, and that is critical to everything. The idea of paying it forward. What we are talking about is raising our level of consciousness. This is something that everybody can do. There is a lot of power in interacting with people who get it. There is a lot of fear and stigma around the idea of a mental diagnosis, but a diagnosis does not define you. Just looking at the alternative complementary types of solutions is critical because it’s not all about poppin’ a pill. It’s about a mental and emotional and spiritual connection and going within and finding that thing that is inside you that can make all things better. To be fair, I think Hugh scared you off with- Mark is probably in earshot when you let loose one of the age and mental condition things. He does that every once in a while, but he is a brilliant man. I know that you had a long journey to figuring out that the idea of raising your consciousness and being around other people who experience the same thing, how did you come to the conclusion that this was the actual solution? Tell me about how that journey took place.
 Mark: First, I don’t know that it would be fair to say that it was the actual solution meaning if you are referring- Are you referring to my own health or the creation of Journey’s Dream?
 Russell: The creation of Journey’s Dream as a way to move forward is really- That is my term for raising your level of consciousness, connecting with that is strong and valuable.
 Mark: I apologize. I misunderstood the question at first. With regard to- How did we discover that Journey’s Dream was the solution? It goes back to trusting that inner guidance system and listening. One of the things that we discovered along the way is we want to be very collaborative with other organizations. We want to be inclusive. We believe that there is a place for medication, and there are many organizations who have gone through mental health recovery processes who are against the medication. If I didn’t have the medication, I’m not sure I’d still be here. It served me well while it served me. It was more that there was more, and it stopped serving me at some point in a way that I felt like I could really achieve my heart’s desire.
 We wanted to give people access to programs like the Optimal Being program, where they could tap in and tune in and get to that higher consciousness that is going to optimally serve them and give them other tools that could meet them where they are today. They may not be seeking that today; they might just be feeling really miserable and not want to get out of bed. They would like to wake up one day and feel a little better. They are not seeking some lofty thing, but to them, that is very lofty. To get back in touch with who is it that they really are and what is it they are really here to do?
 We had a belief that if we as a group take care of the stuff that was in our system that was not going to serve Journey’s Dream, that we would always know the optimal next step and the optimal step we were in would have the proper attention and focus to be executed optimally. We just did an event in November at Soldier Field. Our first event ever was at Soldier Field in the Midway Room there. There were a couple hundred people there. More than that, it was the BDSA, the Bipolar Depression Support Alliance was there supporting this. Nami Metro were bringing in- They do stuff with the arts. I am not a big art kind of person, but to see what they are doing to give people who are struggling with mental health the opportunity to sing and play music and explore what it is that is going on inside them in a different way, that is extraordinary. There was a faith-based counseling organization that came and supported called Sumeric Care. I am not going to remember them all right now, but they all came together and collaborated to realize a vision. There is a VA organization in Illinois, Joining Forces, and the Illinois Department of Human Services was even there. That is unheard of in my world before that to see these groups come together and say, “You know what? We are going to stand for something, which is we believe that there is a path for all people to get well.” We may not know it today. There might not be a cookbook recipe that is on the shelf. But when we start to bring resources together and collaborate, that is when solutions can be found. That is when the optimal support can come out.
 We had a half dozen practitioners that committed to come. They spoke and changed people’s lives, just by letting people know that these doctors who see patients every day were telling them something different than what they had heard in the hospital, which is you can get well. Just to hear that from another doctor, all of a sudden, all the belief systems around what their condition is collapsed. They had to walk out of there with a remodeled and reconfigured belief system. If they say I can get well, then I can. That is a huge thing.
 Then we had a few celebrities there who were extraordinary, too. David Stanley, who is Elvis Presley’s brother, was there sharing his story and the story of Elvis and the opioids and that process and giving people hope that they can get to the other side of that, and his own depression and stuff he has been going through. The founder of Make-a-Wish Foundation talking about how he had PTSD early on in his career, and his partner who had taken his life. Because Frank Shankwitz dealt with it in a different way and found a solution for him, Make-a-Wish Foundation exists today, one of the most successful not-for-profits. That was another reason we wanted him there, to let people know that there is hope for people struggling, but also we wanted him to express that Journey’s Dream might be at the beginning just like Make-a-Wish was after he was going through his recovery process and had the opportunity to do something pretty cool.
 These not-for-profit organizations can be run like real companies and provide real services, real value, create income streams that produce impact that is huge. Make-a-Wish is doing a few hundred million a year in their overall umbrella. That is the kind of organization we see building. A global organization that can have that impact. That is why we hired Hugh. If we are going to build a sustainable, real organization, we waned someone who has been there and done that. Hugh Ballou helps not-for-profits all over the planet to do and set up for success. If you have something that you really believe in and you have a passion behind it, trust yourself and hire the resources that are truly going to help you in your situation set up for success.
 Hugh: Thank you for that. I certainly have had enough rehearsal doing this. Mark and Mitzi, tell people where they can go to find out more information.
 Mitzi: You can go to our website, which is journeysdream.org. That would be the place to begin.
 Hugh: Journeysdream.org. What will people find there?
 Mitzi: They will find our website, which we are going through the process of making some changes to now as we have grown in the four months since we first launched the website. They will find a beginning of a practitioner’s network. They will find the Optimal Being and other resources we are offering. There will also be a place for practitioners where we are inviting practitioners to join us if they see fit. There is a place for practitioners, and there is a place for family members or people who are struggling looking for solutions. They will see what solutions we have, and they will see the vision for what we have for our future.
 Hugh: Did you think when we were in your basement putting stickies on the boards that this would go here in this period of time?
 Mitzi: No, sir, I did not.
 Mark: One more thing. From a context standpoint, we have grown within a handful of weeks to over 600 followers on Facebook. If you go to the Journey’s Dream page on Facebook and follow us, you will not only be getting things about Journey’s Dream, but things about mental health and innovative approaches and solutions over time. Encourage people to do that as well.
 Hugh: What’s next, Mark? What’s next in your radar of accomplishments for 2018?
 Mark: In a week, December 4th, we are launching another Optimal Being program. Anyone who is interested in that, it’s a 13-week program. You can go to the website under Educational Programs and click on Optimal Being. You can read more about it and sign up and register if you like. That’s one thing.
 2018 is going to be a year of automating that program so we can get it to a lower cost; forming additional partners and building out the practitioner network; and building a fund so that people who can’t get the kinds of care that insurance doesn’t cover that they can get some additional support in paying for those services. Some of those services that I have had the benefit of don’t take insurance, so we want to educate people about those but also be good stewards of funds that come in so that part of those funds get allocated to address one of the biggest issues in mental health, which is it’s really expensive to get the good care that is going to help someone navigate their own life to a healthy state of being.
 Hugh: Awesome. Journeysdream.org. There is resources now, and there is resources that are coming. The Facebook page is also called Journey’s Dream?
 Mark: Yes.
 Hugh: Russell, what are you thinking?
 Russell: I am thinking I love what you’re doing. It’s wonderful. I’d like to say that I have looked at the website. There is something there for everyone who has been touched in some way with a diagnosis of a mental illness. Having to face that fear, there is a lot of fear, a lot of stigma around that. But it’s important to connect with people who get it. Mark and Mitzi get it. If it’s you, if it’s a loved one, go to Journeysdream.org and get connected. Talk with somebody. Happy Giving Tuesday by the way. It is Giving Tuesday. Take a few minutes after this broadcast and go to that site and plug in. If you do nothing else, subscribe to the email list, get the information, and give it a listen because a lot of the things that can be seen as solutions here are not the conventional things. They are not the things people tell you, things like mindfulness. Some of this stuff might seem like it’s touchy-feely, but it saves lives. Take a minute to consider something a little bit different than what you have been taught because your life’s on the line. These are folks who have been there and they get it. It’s facing that fear and knowing that yeah, there are some other solutions but they are only solutions if you take time to plug in and do it. Go to Facebook. Go to the web. Get plugged in. Make a donation. Sign up. This is a gift to give yourself and maybe a loved one for Giving Tuesday.
 That is my two cents. Again, thank you so much Mark and Mitzi for what you’re doing here because you’re saving lives. This is going to grow beyond anything you’ve ever imagined.
 Mark: Thank you, Russell. Thank you, Hugh.
 Mitzi: Thank you.
 Hugh: That is really good. I’d like to ask you to think about a closing thought. I’ll ask Mitzi to go first, then Mark.
 As we wrap up here in this really good story that you guys have shared, Mitzi, what is your closing thought for our listeners?
 Mitzi: I guess I would like for everyone to challenge themselves when they see a homeless person or someone who looks different than them on the street or on the bus or in your community, don’t make an assumption that you know anything about that person. They may have a Ph. D. My son had a degree in economics. Mark, who is brilliant. Extend compassion. Look them in the eyes as a fellow traveler who is sometimes on a challenging path. Offer some compassion. That would be my thought. It is something that has changed in me since Journey’s experience, and I would love to see more of it.
 Hugh: Great. Thank you. Mark?
 Mark: If you could think of one person in your life who is struggling now or who has struggled in the past, I would say just reach out to them and give them the URL. Say this podcast, this Facebook live, it looked interesting. Let them know it exists. One of the things that I experienced early on is people don’t know how to talk to people who are going through a challenge. We want to change that. We want to give them those tools. Whether it’s a mother or a father or a son or a daughter or a friend or spouse, what is it we can do to support? One thing you can do is let them know you are thinking about them, whether it’s saying Journeysdream.org website or Facebook page. That is not the point. The point is let them know you’re thinking about them. Send them things that can be constructive, that could really help them. If they deny that they are able to be helped, they may not like it. But you know what? Someday they will remember it because all people can find a path to health and well-being. Allow yourself to be in the face of those experiences. Be the presence of love. We are all called to be. If someone does come at you and say, “Hey, you shouldn’t have done this or that,” and they are triggered, recognize what is going on inside them, but do it from love, not because you want to heal them or get them better. Do it from love. As you think about them, think about what it is you could do to really be of service.
 Hugh: Awesome words. Awesome words. Russell, thanks for being here. It is such a consistent supporter. Mitzi, Mark, thank you for sharing your story. It has been powerful indeed.
 Mitzi: My pleasure.
 Mark: Thank you so much for having us.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Mark Hattas</strong> has, amongst other accomplishments, started, built and sold a $20M/yr tech company. He was later diagnosed with Bipolar I Disorder and told there was no cure.  Mark didn’t believe the prognosis and through study, faith, and practice, Mark lived into his faith that he could be well.  He is so thankful to all who have helped, and to God.  He is committed to help others and give them hope and paths to success as well.  This inspiration in 2012 led him to pursue and eventually co-found HSI and <strong>Journey’s Dream</strong>.  The dream will be realized when all people can find hope and well-being.</p> <p>More information at <a href="http://journeysdream.org/">http://journeysdream.org</a></p> <p><strong>Transcript of the Interview</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Welcome to this edition of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange.</em> We always have special people, but these people are really special because they invited me to participate in the foundational strategy building for their vision for bringing amazing resources to others. I want to introduce these two people. Russell, say hello from Denver, Colorado.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood and a beautiful day to be here with Mark and Mitzi. I look forward to a wonderful chat today. They are doing great work here.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell and I co-host this, and we have some fascinating conversations with people that are doing amazing things. This particular chain of interviews is about people who are doing real things in the real world. The ones we have done previously have been organizations that have been in existence for a while. This one is a young organization, but they are really making some traction. They are doing some really good stuff. I wanted to interview them about how they got started and what kind of traction they are making and what their plans are and how they impact lives.</p> <p>Mark, let’s start with Mark Hattas. You tell us a little bit about your journey, who you are, and why you’re doing this. Then throw it to Mitzi and let her introduce herself and her role in this. Welcome to <em>The Nonprofit Exchange,</em> Mark.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Thank you so much. Great to be her with both of you, good friends, and Mitzi. *audio cut* My revenue stream, or one of them, one of the things that I had the pleasure of doing early in my career is I built and sold a tech company. About nine months after that, I had a very unique experience where I started experiencing the world much differently than I had previously. I went into what is commonly called mania. I was diagnosed bipolar I, and I was in and out of the hospital three times over a three-year period. I was told right away that I would not get well, and I would be on medication the rest of my life. Most of what we know about the brain we learned in the 1990s, and the world of psychology was still navigating what was really going on. The hospital with that kind of prognosis. It was inspired maybe two months after that, after I had an unusual experience where I was terrified that I was going to have to live my life with my brain in the mode that it was in. So I started to seek solutions, and thank God there were solutions out there. There are amazing practitioners, amazing resources, and I applied them, I practiced them, and I got well. For over three years, I have been off all medication and have been very healthy.</p> <p>Over that course of a period of time, I met Mitzi and her husband Rex and her daughter Brea and learned about what was happening in their lives. We joined together to start what’s called Hattas Shay International Foundation, which its project is called Journey’s Dream, to help those with mental health challenges find resources and get to a place where they could really believe again that they could get well and then have the strength and the tools to start to go out and navigate their health and well-being with the best support mechanisms that can serve them. We are a hub that creates that environment. We are still building, but we have had some great traction so far. Mitzi?</p> <p><strong>Mitzi:</strong> My name is Mitzi Montague-Bauer. My son Journey is symptomatic in his senior year at University of Michigan. At first, we thought it was his quirky behavior or something. We didn’t really understand the magnitude of what was happening until he graduated and came home. There were several diagnoses as they didn’t present the same way each time. The first doctor thought he had schizophrenia. After that, he was diagnosed with bipolar and depression and manic disorder and a lot of them actually. He was told the same thing that Mark was told: that he would never get well. There was no cure. The best we could hope for was to manage the symptoms and that would be a lifetime of medication.</p> <p>I didn’t want to believe that. I didn’t believe it. It seemed that the more he heard it, the more he began to believe it. During that time, I spent countless hours looking for the solution that we now know is available, but they were difficult to find. I spent a lot of time searching for any solution that had a different prognosis. By the time I felt confident with the solutions and the collection of modalities that I had collected, Journey was no longer interested. In the beginning, he was open to help. By the time I felt like I had the answers, he had isolated himself, and didn’t seem to trust anyone. It became apparent to me that if we had had these solutions in the beginning, perhaps there would have been a different outcome. Journey, after three and a half years of struggling with his mental health and being told he would not get well, he stepped off of a building and ended his life. Because of the lack of- Well, the solutions were there, but they were difficult to find, and there wasn’t really one place to find them.</p> <p>The vision that we share is that there would be a place, if a family member or a loved one or someone who is struggling landed on our site, that they would have a whole collection of solutions, possibilities to meet them where they were. Those solutions could be medication. There is a place for medication. A whole slew of other opportunities.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you for sharing that. That is an important message. Mark, to declare that SynerVision has been working with this project from the onset. We started putting together the pieces in Mitzi’s basement with Mitzi, her husband, her daughter, you, and me. We worked really hard for a couple of days getting our heads around what this looks like. That was not really the starting point, but it was the launchpoint where you were able to then say we are doing this for real and we are moving ahead. Why did you decide to put this in the framework of a tax-exempt charity?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> I’d built the for-profit organization. When I started to learn about the power of the tax-exempt organizations, it allows for people to give to a cause that they believe in and the way that they can and have tax benefits. It gives an opportunity to donate funds, provide in-kind services—for example, there is an organization helping us with our technology for the practitioner network. They are donating all the framework and developing even. That would have cost us quite a lot of money otherwise. Because it is for the greater good of the broader population, we didn’t really see a need for any one of us or any group to own it. We wanted it to be available for all, and we are the stewards of it. So we really looked from the beginning at this organization being something that is a gift to all of those people who were in a situation like Journey’s situation, or my situation, and the many that exist out there. Tax-exempt has made a whole lot of sense.</p> <p>When we spoke with Sherita Herring, she helped us set that up and reeducated me, retooled my brain, along with you, on what the power of tax-exempt is and how much funding is actually out there and available, and support. We took advantage of your expertise and knowledge to set this up right from the beginning.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a lot of power in philanthropic giving, both in individual donors. We were on a call with Sherita last night. She is one of our partners in SynerVision. Actually, she helped me create my foundation years ago. She is a queen of nonprofit information. She knows the right stuff. We have been on a journey equipping the culture to then step up to where you need to be.</p> <p>I have been impressed with how systematic you have been. You have tried not to short-cycle everything. You have taken things in stride, in sequence, and really let the different stages of this play out and mature without cutting it short. I commend you for that. So many people starting organizations like this want to get there and want to get it done. They leave a lot of stuff in the garbage on the side of the road on the way. You have been very systematic in developing this. I commend you for that. Russell, I know a little more about this because I have been involved with him for a year and a half. We decided we worked together for 365 non-continuous days. It’s been a pace that’s been very logical.</p> <p>Mark, you’ve created some programs, and you have done some beta tests on the programs. Talk a little bit about who those programs are for and the impact that program has had and will have on people’s lives.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> The intent long-term is to have a whole hub of many programs. We have a few through affiliate partners, but we also- One of the things that we co-created with Rookha Group is a program called the Optimal Being program. The Optimal Being program is absolutely by far the core of what I did to navigate the brain dynamics that were spinning around in me and get to a place where I could start to navigate the world in a more healthy way.</p> <p>There are three things that occur in the Optimal Beam program. One is the awakening of the inner guidance system. It’s really incredible that every human being innately has an inner guidance system, but so many people have conflicts within it and their programming that has them doing things on automatic decision-making that is not really constructive for their lives. What this does is help to soften that, release those beliefs and ideas that aren’t really serving us anymore, and get to a place where the inner guidance system is listened to and it comes alive in us and it really leaves us to what’s optimal for us. Mitzi mentioned sometimes medication is the optimal thing for someone in the beginning stages, so go for it and do it. Listen to those doctors. Believe the diagnosis they give you, but don’t believe the prognosis if they are not telling you you can get well. Allowing for that inner guidance system to come on gives people confidence. It gives them courage. It’s a healthy courage. It realigns their personal code of decision-making from one that could be negative and destructive to one that is always constructive. That is a key thing with the Optimal Being program.</p> <p>Another thing that happens there is community. Here is people that come together who are also going through life’s challenges. To learn these tools together and to come to a community where people are in a like situation or like-minded, they are seeking solutions, that accelerates everyone’s health and wellbeing. Ideas are shared in there that the facilitators may have never thought of. One of the people who are participating is contributing as well. People are both giving to the group and receiving from the group. It’s a combination of self-instructional programs as well as a weekly online part of the program.</p> <p>The other thing is there is metrics. At the beginning of the Optimal Being program, we allow someone to go into ten categories of their human behavior. These are things that are like self-love. How is that going for someone? If love of self is really low, maintaining love while thinking about themselves is really low. There are some tools that we teach to support increasing that. Maintaining love while thinking of others<strong>,</strong> maintaining love while actually approaching truth. There is ten of these categories. We measure them in the beginning, and at the end of the 13-week program online, we measure it again.</p> <p>It is fascinating to see how dramatically people change. These are core human development skills that could be taught to a fifth grader or even younger. When someone integrates them into their life, whenever they face something that is a challenge, instead of going to historical patterns of coping mechanisms, they start to have tools that are foundational human tools to start to realize what potential lies within them and have it start to come out in the world. The transformations we have seen in corporate leaders, people who thought they were actually doing fine but wanted to get to the next level, and people who have challenges is profound.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s not just for people who are having—I forget how to title it—severe emotional issues. It’s not just for people in that profile.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> No, it could be someone who is going through a breakup from a relationship and they are sad. It could be a loss of a loved one, and they are going through that grieving process. It could be any number of things that creates in someone the desire to seek something where they are going to feel better. When people feel better and they get to a joyous, and Mitzi knows well about this, place in life, one of the things that starts to occur is their life self-perpetuates in a positive direction. We want to help people navigate through that, so we teach the opposite of the way they were taught in the world when they were growing up. It’s like a rewiring of some of the processes they had been using. Mitzi, I don’t know if you want to ask anything to that part.</p> <p><strong>Mitzi:</strong> I thought you did a beautiful job summarizing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Mark, what is the name of that program? The Optimal Bean program?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> It’s called the Optimal Being Program.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s my age and mental condition.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> We have tools and technologies. There is an app online that is actually free. People can go download- If they do a search on their phone on “Rookha Group,” they will find the Optimal Being app. It is a powerful app that helps to heal relationships with the commitments tool and to practice maintaining love and the breathing properly as they face a challenging situation. That alone is healing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Spell Rookha.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> R-o-o-k-h-a.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> R-o-o-k-h-a.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> You might be able to type in Optimal Being and get it at this point, too. It’s been up there long enough I think you could type in either one.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Optimal Being. O-p-t-i-m-a-l B-e-i-n-g. So Mark, this is not coaching. It’s not counseling. It’s not therapy. What is it?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> We’re like a group of people who have been there and have navigated this. We are educated mentors. I am someone who has gone into it and out of it. When someone does that, they develop a certain set of skills and support others in getting to a place of hope. I don’t think anybody in our organization—Mitzi, correct me if I’m wrong—but I think every single person in our organization sees the human beingness in a person. Never have we seen any kind of diagnosis or some kind of illness. It’s not the way we look at it. We look at it more like-</p> <p>There is a great analogy of the caterpillar to butterfly. Imagine that the caterpillar goes in to the chrysalis, and then everyone starts to say how awful they are because they don’t look like a caterpillar anymore and they are stupid and can’t do this and can’t do that. The caterpillar is transforming. If we suppress that transformation, we are going to have some funky-looking caterpillars. If they didn’t allow the chrysalis process, they are going to be angry, frustrated, grumpy, and eventually fall into depression because they are denying that natural, innate, transformative state. When somebody actually goes into who it is they truly are and they do it with the tools that exist in many different forms, we happen to give them in the way that we learned them. It supports someone having the courage to do what they are innately guided to do. That is why when I was mentioning inner guidance systems it’s like listening to yourself, but letting go of all the noise that was in the way, creating conflict within a person.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I love it. Mitzi, I have appreciated you on our team calls and live work together. You ask really good questions when everybody else is letting it fly by and wondering what that meant. You say, “Wait a minute.” Your attention to detail is very acute. But you always ask it in a very generous and kind way. Instead of putting anybody down, you say, “Would you explain that again? Is it this or that?”</p> <p>First off, talk about your son. This project is named Journey’s Dream. Why did you step up to want to be in this core team of four people? I guess it’s four people. This core team of champions that are really making it happen. Talk about yourself, and then talk about the other two that aren’t here, Rex and Brea.</p> <p><strong>Mitzi:</strong> That inner guidance system that Mark was just talking about was what led me to be one of the founders. I again saw a deficit when I looked at the mental health situation on the planet. The suicide attempts and the actual suicides and the message that people hear when they get a diagnosis is one that we wonder why is a stigma. When you get that diagnosis, if you get a diagnosis of schizophrenia and went home and Googled that, that would put you right in the depression, I think. You probably wouldn’t want to talk about it. The prognosis is awful. I would love to see the core messaging changing around mental illness. What would have happened with Journey if he was told that he was in a transformational process or that he could get well? That is a different message. A lot of people who are experiencing these states of mania are brilliant. They are on a genius spectrum. They are navigating different things than we are. I think if they had these tools that are available, it would be a different outcome entirely. I was motivated by that, and this is what I was being guided by, too.</p> <p>The other two founders are Rex Montague-Bauer, my husband and Journey’s father. Rex and I have been students of these principles that are a lot of the core principles of the Optimal Being. We have been students for a while of that and do our best to practice those in our lives. Our daughter Brea is the fourth founder, Journey’s sister. She is a brilliant human being, compassionate. We are all inspired by the same thing: to see a different outcome for people who receive a mental health diagnosis or who are just challenged in general.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is a high-functioning team. You all work really well together. That is not the case for every team. Russell, I met Mark at the very first ever SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium. I think it was called Leadership Excellence then. It was in Chicago. Mark met me at a CEO Space gathering the week or two before, and he decided he’d sign up and come. We got connected there. We had conversations. He checked me out for about a year before he- He wanted to make sure I wasn’t a flake and was there to stay. Then we started working together. We have had some very deep conversations over time.</p> <p>I am really a fan of Mark and Mitzi and the team as well as what they are doing. So we have been on a journey ourselves. Mark, thank you for inviting me on the journey. It has been a pleasure to be there with you. It has touched me in many ways I hadn’t realized I could be touched. It has been an important journey for me just to watch and participate. Russell, what do you see and hear that you want to comment on? I’m sure you have found a couple questions you’d like to throw back at our guests.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I’d like to thank you both for coming here and sharing your story. We have powerful why’s, and that is critical to everything. The idea of paying it forward. What we are talking about is raising our level of consciousness. This is something that everybody can do. There is a lot of power in interacting with people who get it. There is a lot of fear and stigma around the idea of a mental diagnosis, but a diagnosis does not define you. Just looking at the alternative complementary types of solutions is critical because it’s not all about poppin’ a pill. It’s about a mental and emotional and spiritual connection and going within and finding that thing that is inside you that can make all things better. To be fair, I think Hugh scared you off with- Mark is probably in earshot when you let loose one of the age and mental condition things. He does that every once in a while, but he is a brilliant man. I know that you had a long journey to figuring out that the idea of raising your consciousness and being around other people who experience the same thing, how did you come to the conclusion that this was the actual solution? Tell me about how that journey took place.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> First, I don’t know that it would be fair to say that it was the actual solution meaning if you are referring- Are you referring to my own health or the creation of Journey’s Dream?</p> <p><strong>Russell</strong>: The creation of Journey’s Dream as a way to move forward is really- That is my term for raising your level of consciousness, connecting with that is strong and valuable.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> I apologize. I misunderstood the question at first. With regard to- How did we discover that Journey’s Dream was the solution? It goes back to trusting that inner guidance system and listening. One of the things that we discovered along the way is we want to be very collaborative with other organizations. We want to be inclusive. We believe that there is a place for medication, and there are many organizations who have gone through mental health recovery processes who are against the medication. If I didn’t have the medication, I’m not sure I’d still be here. It served me well while it served me. It was more that there was more, and it stopped serving me at some point in a way that I felt like I could really achieve my heart’s desire.</p> <p>We wanted to give people access to programs like the Optimal Being program, where they could tap in and tune in and get to that higher consciousness that is going to optimally serve them and give them other tools that could meet them where they are today. They may not be seeking that today; they might just be feeling really miserable and not want to get out of bed. They would like to wake up one day and feel a little better. They are not seeking some lofty thing, but to them, that is very lofty. To get back in touch with who is it that they really are and what is it they are really here to do?</p> <p>We had a belief that if we as a group take care of the stuff that was in our system that was not going to serve Journey’s Dream, that we would always know the optimal next step and the optimal step we were in would have the proper attention and focus to be executed optimally. We just did an event in November at Soldier Field. Our first event ever was at Soldier Field in the Midway Room there. There were a couple hundred people there. More than that, it was the BDSA, the Bipolar Depression Support Alliance was there supporting this. Nami Metro were bringing in- They do stuff with the arts. I am not a big art kind of person, but to see what they are doing to give people who are struggling with mental health the opportunity to sing and play music and explore what it is that is going on inside them in a different way, that is extraordinary. There was a faith-based counseling organization that came and supported called Sumeric Care. I am not going to remember them all right now, but they all came together and collaborated to realize a vision. There is a VA organization in Illinois, Joining Forces, and the Illinois Department of Human Services was even there. That is unheard of in my world before that to see these groups come together and say, “You know what? We are going to stand for something, which is we believe that there is a path for all people to get well.” We may not know it today. There might not be a cookbook recipe that is on the shelf. But when we start to bring resources together and collaborate, that is when solutions can be found. That is when the optimal support can come out.</p> <p>We had a half dozen practitioners that committed to come. They spoke and changed people’s lives, just by letting people know that these doctors who see patients every day were telling them something different than what they had heard in the hospital, which is you can get well. Just to hear that from another doctor, all of a sudden, all the belief systems around what their condition is collapsed. They had to walk out of there with a remodeled and reconfigured belief system. If they say I can get well, then I can. That is a huge thing.</p> <p>Then we had a few celebrities there who were extraordinary, too. David Stanley, who is Elvis Presley’s brother, was there sharing his story and the story of Elvis and the opioids and that process and giving people hope that they can get to the other side of that, and his own depression and stuff he has been going through. The founder of Make-a-Wish Foundation talking about how he had PTSD early on in his career, and his partner who had taken his life. Because Frank Shankwitz dealt with it in a different way and found a solution for him, Make-a-Wish Foundation exists today, one of the most successful not-for-profits. That was another reason we wanted him there, to let people know that there is hope for people struggling, but also we wanted him to express that Journey’s Dream might be at the beginning just like Make-a-Wish was after he was going through his recovery process and had the opportunity to do something pretty cool.</p> <p>These not-for-profit organizations can be run like real companies and provide real services, real value, create income streams that produce impact that is huge. Make-a-Wish is doing a few hundred million a year in their overall umbrella. That is the kind of organization we see building. A global organization that can have that impact. That is why we hired Hugh. If we are going to build a sustainable, real organization, we waned someone who has been there and done that. Hugh Ballou helps not-for-profits all over the planet to do and set up for success. If you have something that you really believe in and you have a passion behind it, trust yourself and hire the resources that are truly going to help you in your situation set up for success.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you for that. I certainly have had enough rehearsal doing this. Mark and Mitzi, tell people where they can go to find out more information.</p> <p><strong>Mitzi:</strong> You can go to our website, which is journeysdream.org. That would be the place to begin.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Journeysdream.org. What will people find there?</p> <p><strong>Mitzi:</strong> They will find our website, which we are going through the process of making some changes to now as we have grown in the four months since we first launched the website. They will find a beginning of a practitioner’s network. They will find the Optimal Being and other resources we are offering. There will also be a place for practitioners where we are inviting practitioners to join us if they see fit. There is a place for practitioners, and there is a place for family members or people who are struggling looking for solutions. They will see what solutions we have, and they will see the vision for what we have for our future.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Did you think when we were in your basement putting stickies on the boards that this would go here in this period of time?</p> <p><strong>Mitzi:</strong> No, sir, I did not.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> One more thing. From a context standpoint, we have grown within a handful of weeks to over 600 followers on Facebook. If you go to the Journey’s Dream page on Facebook and follow us, you will not only be getting things about Journey’s Dream, but things about mental health and innovative approaches and solutions over time. Encourage people to do that as well.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What’s next, Mark? What’s next in your radar of accomplishments for 2018?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> In a week, December 4th, we are launching another Optimal Being program. Anyone who is interested in that, it’s a 13-week program. You can go to the website under Educational Programs and click on Optimal Being. You can read more about it and sign up and register if you like. That’s one thing.</p> <p>2018 is going to be a year of automating that program so we can get it to a lower cost; forming additional partners and building out the practitioner network; and building a fund so that people who can’t get the kinds of care that insurance doesn’t cover that they can get some additional support in paying for those services. Some of those services that I have had the benefit of don’t take insurance, so we want to educate people about those but also be good stewards of funds that come in so that part of those funds get allocated to address one of the biggest issues in mental health, which is it’s really expensive to get the good care that is going to help someone navigate their own life to a healthy state of being.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Awesome. Journeysdream.org. There is resources now, and there is resources that are coming. The Facebook page is also called Journey’s Dream?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, what are you thinking?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I am thinking I love what you’re doing. It’s wonderful. I’d like to say that I have looked at the website. There is something there for everyone who has been touched in some way with a diagnosis of a mental illness. Having to face that fear, there is a lot of fear, a lot of stigma around that. But it’s important to connect with people who get it. Mark and Mitzi get it. If it’s you, if it’s a loved one, go to Journeysdream.org and get connected. Talk with somebody. Happy Giving Tuesday by the way. It is Giving Tuesday. Take a few minutes after this broadcast and go to that site and plug in. If you do nothing else, subscribe to the email list, get the information, and give it a listen because a lot of the things that can be seen as solutions here are not the conventional things. They are not the things people tell you, things like mindfulness. Some of this stuff might seem like it’s touchy-feely, but it saves lives. Take a minute to consider something a little bit different than what you have been taught because your life’s on the line. These are folks who have been there and they get it. It’s facing that fear and knowing that yeah, there are some other solutions but they are only solutions if you take time to plug in and do it. Go to Facebook. Go to the web. Get plugged in. Make a donation. Sign up. This is a gift to give yourself and maybe a loved one for Giving Tuesday.</p> <p>That is my two cents. Again, thank you so much Mark and Mitzi for what you’re doing here because you’re saving lives. This is going to grow beyond anything you’ve ever imagined.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Thank you, Russell. Thank you, Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Mitzi:</strong> Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is really good. I’d like to ask you to think about a closing thought. I’ll ask Mitzi to go first, then Mark.</p> <p>As we wrap up here in this really good story that you guys have shared, Mitzi, what is your closing thought for our listeners?</p> <p><strong>Mitzi:</strong> I guess I would like for everyone to challenge themselves when they see a homeless person or someone who looks different than them on the street or on the bus or in your community, don’t make an assumption that you know anything about that person. They may have a Ph. D. My son had a degree in economics. Mark, who is brilliant. Extend compassion. Look them in the eyes as a fellow traveler who is sometimes on a challenging path. Offer some compassion. That would be my thought. It is something that has changed in me since Journey’s experience, and I would love to see more of it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great. Thank you. Mark?</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> If you could think of one person in your life who is struggling now or who has struggled in the past, I would say just reach out to them and give them the URL. Say this podcast, this Facebook live, it looked interesting. Let them know it exists. One of the things that I experienced early on is people don’t know how to talk to people who are going through a challenge. We want to change that. We want to give them those tools. Whether it’s a mother or a father or a son or a daughter or a friend or spouse, what is it we can do to support? One thing you can do is let them know you are thinking about them, whether it’s saying Journeysdream.org website or Facebook page. That is not the point. The point is let them know you’re thinking about them. Send them things that can be constructive, that could really help them. If they deny that they are able to be helped, they may not like it. But you know what? Someday they will remember it because all people can find a path to health and well-being. Allow yourself to be in the face of those experiences. Be the presence of love. We are all called to be. If someone does come at you and say, “Hey, you shouldn’t have done this or that,” and they are triggered, recognize what is going on inside them, but do it from love, not because you want to heal them or get them better. Do it from love. As you think about them, think about what it is you could do to really be of service.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Awesome words. Awesome words. Russell, thanks for being here. It is such a consistent supporter. Mitzi, Mark, thank you for sharing your story. It has been powerful indeed.</p> <p><strong>Mitzi:</strong> My pleasure.</p> <p><strong>Mark:</strong> Thank you so much for having us.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Nonprofits that Work: Food for Families</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofits-that-work-food-for-families</link>
      <description>Food for Families https://www.parkviewcommunitymission.org/food-for-families
 Interview Transcript
  
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. We have two guests today. They both work in the same charity. It’s called Food for Families. I was down there yesterday hearing some stories. There was a lunch gathering for a bunch of charities that work out of the same building. I have been talking to these guys for a while and said that we needed to tell their story because people have a lot of ideas, and putting some traction to ideas is pretty important. I learn from people who have lessons to teach, but I also learn from people who have life lessons to teach through stories. I am going to ask these two gentlemen to introduce themselves, a little bit about their background, and then we will circle around and talk about their foundation. Ray Booth, who are you?
 Ray Booth: I’m one of the rare breeds. I was born here, and I’ll die here. I’ll never live anywhere else.
 Hugh: We are in Lynchburg, Virginia by the way.
 Ray: It’s a great place. Come join us. I felt a calling early in my life to be an engineer, and I was a simple engineer graduate. After I got out of college, I felt called to ministry and considered that quite a bit. I think I’d do best in public service. I spent my whole working life in public service, first with the state government, then 25 years with the city as Director of Public Works. I have impacted this community. Everywhere I drive, I see my impacts and construction all the time. After I retired, I went to work with my construction company. I did more private/public partnerships here in Virginia in many of the cities and counties throughout Virginia. I retired from that, and now I am a consultant and real estate broker and am still trying to impact the community for the better.
 Hugh: Gordy Harper, tell us who you are.
 Gordy Harper: I am the director of Food for Families. Previously I was a real estate broker. Before that, a Harley Davidson dealer in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
 Hugh: We are across the state from the commonwealth. That is four or five hours away the other way.
 Gordy: Virginia Beach?
 Hugh: Yeah.
 Gordy: Four hours, at least.
 Hugh: It’s real flat over there.
 Gordy: Yes, it is.
 Hugh: I ran a half-marathon there. Part of the reason I chose it was because it was flat. The other part was because Yuengling served beer at the water stops.
 Food for Families, this is a nonprofit here. Let me set the context. We live in Lynchburg, Virginia. Lynchburg has one of the largest populations of those that live below the poverty line. I think 24% of the population. Food for Families is sort of geographically located where a lot of that population is. When was Food for Families started, and why was it started?
 Ray: Many years ago, Food for Families is located in a church that currently is in a poorest area in the city. Back in the ‘60s and ‘70s, it was the heartbeat of the city. The first shopping center was there. This was the in place to be. It grew exponentially and was one of the wealthier cities and churches in the city. As time moved on and the new shopping mall was built in the suburbs and all the retail people in that part of the city left and went to the new mall and the development moved there, this area became more of a transient location. Over time, the poorest people in the city moved into this area. Lynchburg in the early 1900’s was one of the six wealthiest cities in the nation. A lot of wealth here, and they built huge homes. We have a lot of beautiful inner city homes. They were turned into apartments in the ’50s and ‘60s. Once the people started to come and appreciate the architecture, they bought all of those homes and moved the poor people out.
 The poor people gathered around the Parkview Community Church. That is now the poorest area west of Richmond in the whole state of Virginia. The church was flourishing. As retail moved out, it started going downhill. They started having a Wednesday night meal every week. Back in 1996, a street person came in, and they fed him. The next week, he brought two of his friends. And more and more of the street people came in. More of the congregation left. They continued to feed the poor, and that number grew and grew. Still to this day, 21 years later, there is still a Wednesday night meal. We feed 125-150 people on Wednesday nights. The church started food boxes in 2007 because they saw all of these poor people on Wednesday night needing food. In 2008, the church was closed, and the food pantry survived another year or two until the guy who ran it died. It was closed for three or four months. Through a grant, we reopened the food pantry in 2011 as a client choice facility, the first one west of Richmond and one of the few-
 Hugh: Tell us what client choice means.
 Ray: Client choice means the neighbors come in and get a grocery cart and actually go back through the pantry and pick up the items their family will eat. Pick a produce, meat, dairy, bread, so forth. They only shop like you would shop in a grocery store or anywhere else and pick up the items their family will eat. That was very successful and still is to this day.
 There has been a number of changes over the years. In 2012, a gentleman who has never been married, very poor, never owned a car died and left $225,000 for the benefit of youth in Lynchburg and to be used by the district superintendent. They developed a partnership with UMFS, which houses foster care and adopting. They agreed to put a regional office there. They used a third of the money to run the space. After they came, the district office moved there. We divided expenses three ways and utilities, and the Lord has continued to bless over the years. It has really taken off, and now we have 13 different nonprofits in the building. Many of those are very complementary to Food for Families and the neighbors, and today we serve 25% of the poor people in Lynchburg with food. That’s 3,000 individuals. We have had as much as 80,000 pounds of food going through the facility.
 Hugh: 80,000 pounds. I have been by there on a Saturday. There is people waiting. Ray, when did you join this organization?
 Ray: I joined in 2010.
 Hugh: 2010. This is 2017 when we are making this recording. People may be listening to this in some other year or universe. Gordy, when did you join this organization?
 Gordy: 2016.
 Hugh: 2016. Year and a half. Ray is the chairman of the board, and you are?
 Gordy: The director.
 Hugh: What other data would you like to share? What I’m hearing is there are people who were doing something that was meaningful and they stayed with it. There is people listening to this who’ve had an idea and tried it, but haven’t really stayed with it long-term. I’ve also heard because of the value of the people staying with it, you attracted some funding and some other synergies with some other organizations. What other things do you want to share about what you know from the history and what the history is from 2016 going forward?
 Gordy: As I came in, what we tried to focus on was changing the culture. I would sit in meetings in the city and hear people talking about how they didn’t feel respected when they went into those places. A lady said a culture of respect, and that locked into my brain. I went back and we tried to change the culture and help people see our neighbors, our clients who we call neighbors, not clients. Our focus was on changing the culture. A lot of that is in developing relationships because what I was hearing was people needed to help them come from where they are. I just knew from my own life that if you wanted to help me come from where I was, you were going to have to have a relationship with me, to be able to sit with me and share with me and listen and take it to heart. It mattered the things you said to me. The first year I was there, I was trying to build relationships and trying to bring down the walls that people build up around themselves because of where they are. We tried to show the love of Christ to people.
 Hugh: Russell, they said a couple magic words. Relationships. They said culture. Do you have some comments or questions for these gentlemen?
 Russell: Culture is more than just a cereal. It’s supposed to be good. It’s wonderful because what you are talking about, and I have dealt with it a lot, is basic human dignity. Sometimes it’s hard for people to reach out for help because they are in a circumstance through no fault of their own, and it’s important to treat people with that basic dignity. I commend you for making the effort to do that and connecting with these people that you’re serving. I was also excited to hear that you are co-located with a number of different agencies. If you could, talk about some of the things you have been able to do with some of those other folks that are partnered with you to provide a more holistic service to those people you are serving.
 Gordy: We have a free clinic. We have tried to build relationships actually with all the different partners in the building. But we have a welcome center. Our welcome center is like a resource center, and I have set them up a satellite in our office. We are in the lower level of the building. Everything else is in the upper levels of our building. We have tried to establish ways to draw them down to where the neighbors are. But we have set a lady up in our office that can actually one-on-one with the neighbors. They are actually in the room waiting for hours at times. Some days I am there at 7:30, and there is a 2:00 distribution with people waiting already. We try to capture those morning hours where people are waiting to be able to shop and draw people in that can lead them to resources.
 The free clinic, we have an establishing relationship. There is a nurse practitioner in there that is going to come down and meet with the neighbors, announce what services are available, and what she has actually talked about is coming to the Wednesday night community meals and establishing relationships by sitting with the neighbors and letting them know what’s available. We are trying to get flu shots. There are little things we talk about just from what we hear with the neighbors and try to see what needs they have.
 We have a relationship with the local bank and a lady that is vice president there who is coming in and teaching personal finance classes, basic computing classes, reading, math skills, different things that will help people be in a better position to get employment.
 Ray: There is a nutritionist that has been there several years that is teaching cooking classes. While the neighbors are waiting, she is up there showing them how to cook. We also have a counseling service there. This facility started even before everybody else moved in with a facility bin there. We met there for over seven years.
 As a result of that synergy that came around that facility and those people being there, you have 50-60 people there every day at lunchtime for an AA meeting. As some of those people were able to overcome their addiction, one of them started a telecommunications company that is in the building that provides low-cost Internet and phone within a one-and-a-half-mile radius of the building. Two others actually formed a counseling service using the peer group model that is now extremely successful. They have contracts with all of the local school systems and hospitals, so if a student gets caught with drugs and alcohol, instead of being suspended, they are sent there. They have nine counselors now. They have a lot of people whose lives have turned around as a result of that.
 The UMFS has foster care and adopting services for the entire region. They have contracts with all the schools as well. We have three churches that meet there. One on Saturday that is in a growth of the AA group. A lot of the people at the church service are across the spectrum. We have doctors, lawyers, all types of people there that through prescription drugs and other things, you read about it so much today, that were cured or came off the addiction that didn’t feel comfortable in their own churches or places. They come there with brothers and sisters who shared the same war and are helping each other. After the worship service, they have a meal together. That’s every Saturday night.
 We have a Sunday morning church, and then we have a Sunday afternoon church. They are now getting more involved in the mission. Most recently, we have had one of the larger churches move their church office into the building because they want to be close to the neighbors and be more involved in administering to the poor. We have a number of different things there. We are continuing to try to expand more services as we get there. It’s continuing to grow.
 Hugh: Russell is one of the first people. SynerVision is the synergy of the common vision. I have trademarked that name. We like the word charity because nonprofit is a stupid word. You have to make some profit if you are going to do any good. We like the word charity a little better. It is a tax-exempt social benefit organization or social capital. Lots of ways to describe it. People think of nonprofit as a philosophy, not a tax classification. I don’t hear any of that thinking from what I hear today.
 Russell and I have reinvented the consultant model. I went from being a consultant to an insultant to a resultant. Now we partner with them to help them find the way, so we are WayFinders. We created a whole different paradigm because 98% of the consultants out there give the rest of us a bad name. Maybe they give answers, maybe they don’t. It’s the stock answer. Our calling is to give people information, free or at a price they can afford, so they can improve their culture, their service, and therefore improve their funding.
 I wanted to talk about two other pieces here. We teach leaders that you don’t push, you influence. I am hearing some of that in your dialogue. You have been steady. You have worked out these collaborations with these other organizations with some synergistic work. I am gathering you were the first one on board and the others have come on board since then. Because of the impact of your work, I want to shift, and a lot of charities do that, but I know since I’ve heard your stories. There is measurable, profound impact from the work you do. That is part of the position of influence. Your operational guidelines, your high standards of integrity, the value you give people: those are all really strong principles. Those are part of who you attract, both in the collaborations and in the funding side.
 If that influence piece makes some sense, you talked about improving the culture, redefining the culture. I’m not sure what word you used, but it was working on the culture. I watched you yesterday where you had most of those organizations represented at lunch. It was a lunch to share stories and be together. You were a servant leader there. You were handing out plates and checking on people. I don’t know if you were official, but you were an unofficial hospitality person yesterday. It gave me some insights into your leadership, sir.
 Culture is so important; that’s part of the work you do. Leadership is a culture. It’s not just a person, it’s the culture. What’s been your journey of helping them—I like the word transform rather than change—transform their whole idea of culture? Give us a snapshot of what that journey has been like.
 Gordy: It goes back probably. For this journey, when I was seeing it, people don’t really mean some of the things you see sometimes. It’s just more the nature of people as a whole unfortunately. I was watching. I would hear certain things and watch certain responses. It just wasn’t the outcome I was hoping for. I want more of a warm and comfortable- The way I have tried to sell it is the people we are serving don’t really get experiences. If I want to take my kids to Disneyworld or my grandkids, we are going to go. They don’t really get to do the same thing. We have tried to help people see that we want to create an experience where you look forward to coming back.
 I know it’s just shopping to some people, but to our neighbors, when you see that they will come, some come at six in the morning. I have had people tell me- We start at eight, so I come around 7:30. There can be 10-15 people waiting. It just makes me understand the value. I know it’s free groceries. But they get to come once a month. I would like over that month’s gap for them to really look forward to it. We try to take everything, implement everything we can to make it an ice experience. We want to do it like the nice stores do, like Walmart. You want it to be. We need vests to say, “How can I help?” We want it to be clean, well-stocked, and with customer experience. We have to put it in the mindset that an average person would be thinking. When you walk through the grocery stores, what do you see? What is happening around you? Everything is neat and in order. The only difference is that we bring our pallets right through the front door. We set them right in the middle of our produce room and start picking through it to be able to distribute the food. It’s harder to keep it clean. We don’t have people come in the middle of the night to stock us to be ready for opening tomorrow. We have certain challenges that Walmart has mastered because of finances and the help they were able to bring in. if you think of it as creating a wonderful experience and not just feeding people-
 Hugh: I love it. It’s the visual of people waiting in line for the new iPhone. They are excited.
 Gordy: It’s hard because my family does what everyone else does when they want to do it. We have been very blessed. But I realize these folks don’t.
 Hugh: It’s hard to realize that. Russell, we were born into white privilege. It’s not a disease, but there is a cure for it. I was in a room yesterday, and I said to Leigh Anne, “It’s nice to be in a room where everybody doesn’t look like me.” Because if everybody were to look like me, that would be scary. We had a cross-section of Lynchburg in that room. Age demographic, educational background, race, some of us better-looking than others, but not me.
 The culture thing is something that we work with charities and churches on because we have inherited a culture. We don’t realize that people aren’t responding to us because we are doing the things the same way. I started a workshop Saturday with church leaders, and I said, “Who knows the seven last words of a church?” Nobody knew. “We have never done it that way before.” I said a lot of us come to meetings with that written on our foreheads. How about stripping it off? Let’s start with an open brain.
 You came in 18 months ago. Ray, what sort of transformation has happened during his tenure so far?
 Ray: Obviously his approach is very positive and very much like what we were all looking for. Our previous people took it more- In fact, he was a retired military person and was more for giving orders and this is the way we do it type of approach. That doesn’t create the same level of respect. You have to have a heart that you want to share and relate to these people rather than treat them as something to go through the door. Gordy has brought the heart into it. As a result of his faith, he has ben able to share that heart and love with the people. That is something I strongly believe in and something I try to do. I grew up very poor, not white privilege. I relate to these people really well. It’s all by the grace of God. It could be any of us. It’s been wonderful to see Gordy there and the way he has transformed the people there.
 The other thing that has been such a huge benefit is the tremendous amount of volunteers we have. We have only a couple part-time people. Gordy is part-time. It takes at least 30 volunteers to run a distribution day. We have brought hundreds of volunteers in and hundreds of volunteer hours. If it wasn’t for the volunteers, we couldn’t survive. It’s important for the volunteers to have a good experience as it is for the neighbors. If they don’t appreciate and we don’t appreciate them and what they do, they wouldn’t be coming back. We have a tremendous amount of volunteers repeat on a continuous basis.
 Also, Wednesday nights, we have numerous groups that cook the food, serve the food, provide music devotions, and relate to the people. That is probably 30 different groups over the years. That creates an experience of love and a relationship that carries forward into the volunteers on Thursday and Saturday and Wednesdays.
 Hugh: This is what Gordy’s brought to the table. We like to teach that culture is a reflection of the leader. We want to criticize other people and take the blame off of ourselves. I want to ask some stories. Russell, what questions are you hearing, and do you want to throw some questions on the table?
 Russell: What we are talking about is critically important. There is reasons why people want to support you. A nonprofit that is effective creates win-win-win scenarios: wins for the people who are working, wins for the people they serve, and wins for their supporters, whether they are giving time, talent, or treasure. Having the connection with people.
 When you go into a community, particularly if you look different, there is a bit of a level of suspicion you have to overcome. That has been my experience. People get to know you and see you as genuine. You go in and ask a lot of questions; you don’t walk in with a lot of answers. People respond to that, and it’s a constant dialogue. How can we make this better? How can we serve you best? What is something that we can do that we’re not doing? These are all things to be critical. It’s having these conversations.
 You have hundreds of volunteers. I am seeing people like Travis Smith, who has spread impact locally to 11 cities now. He has been successful at leveraging large numbers of volunteers. The question that I have is: What are you learning as you ask the people who volunteer for you why they keep coming back, why they enjoy serving, what makes them want to work with you?
 Gordy: That’s a tough one to figure out. We do get responses and things from people. I haven’t really done a lot of research on it as much as it seems almost a standard amongst, especially the students. I see the students come in, and they start, they don’t know where to plug in. Some of them require hours and things like that, community service hours. You can start to see develop within them a heart for service. I think most of the young people nowadays really want to do something. They have something inside them that is stirring to give back. It’s interesting because I know one of the local colleges, they get 20 hours they are required to serve in their community. Over and over, I get comments of, “I had to do it up until then. I want to do it now.” It’s just something stirs within them to make them come back and want to do it. I think any of us, they will actually step outside of our comfort zone and go into these places and start to invest your time and energy, it’s in us.
 Ray: All of us want to do things and please people. When we serve people, these people appreciate it and show their appreciation verbally, nonverbally, and so forth. Everything you do is appreciated. That warms people’s hearts, and they want to continue to be able to help the people. It’s all about being able to help and se that immediate impact and the smile on the face. That is what brings them back, and that is why if they get past that first hurdle and get comfortable, at least talk to people, then they can develop a dialogue. Particularly for young people, they don’t have the boxes that older people do as it relates to race, culture, etc. They more quickly join in if you will than the older people. They have a harder struggle sometimes getting past that barrier.
 One of the big things that has been in Lynchburg the last five, six, seven years is Bridges over Poverty. We have gone through lots of training on that. Just a local pastor recently shared with me that he had the white privilege, if you will, to serve in larger churches. He really didn’t know how to talk to the poor. He went into one of these Bridges programs and came back and tried some different things. All of a sudden, they responded, and all of a sudden, he comes back every week because he’s retired and he sees how he can bring a smile to these people’s faces and how they can all of a sudden smile rather than sit there frowning.
 Hugh: We bought this house recently. I said to the realtor and the mover, “You do this all the time, but we felt like we were your only clients. We move once in a great while. You move somebody every day. You sell a house every day.” These people, it’s a unique experience for them. You’re doing it all the time. What I am hearing about the culture it is a profound experience for everybody. You have created a win-win for everybody. Parts of white privilege don’t have to do with money. Just because we’re old white guys, there is a lot of dimensions to that. What I am hearing is you have evened the playing field in that people are people.
 I’d like to hear a couple of stories that you can share. We have some time here. Is there a story of impact? Either one of you can start. Is there a story that you’d like to share that warms your heart or really made a difference in somebody’s life?
 Gordy: Recently, we had two ladies come in. it was an off-time in our schedule. They were homeless. The way it hit me was it was impactful because of the pieces that came together. We are sitting in the office. We were able to draw the lady from the welcome center. She was in there. We were able to see them get their housing that evening. By establishing the housing, we were able to establish their food. She was able to get them bus passes. All the pieces, we stood in the office, and we talked it all through. All the pieces in a matter of 15 minutes came together. We stood there, we all held hands together, prayed together. We said, “Wouldn’t it be something if six months from now, we talked about, Remember when we all gathered here and figured out all the pieces?”
 In two weeks, they came in and both had jobs. It was powerful for them to come in and share and for us to remember all the different resources aligned at that moment. It’s a powerful image of us remembering to draw the resources. You have to keep a pool of everybody together. They wanted me to understand all of our resources there and make sure what’s happening and get everybody everything they need and understand that the other partners in our mission are in as well. We have come to find out they are in as well, and they were actually doing some things that I hadn’t even realized.
 The counseling, I sat with one of them and said, “I really want to figure out what we can do together.” They’re like, “Did you not realize Steve has been sending people up for a long time?” I’m like, “I did not realize.” Steve is the face you see first when you come into the office. Steve has been directing people to the resources they needed.
 Ray: There are so many stories that happen all the time. We had a guy come in the office, and we had been getting money from somebody that gave us $100 a month for a long time. We didn’t know who it really was. One day, this guy comes through the door and says he didn’t have a car or anything. He rode the bus. “One month, I didn’t have the money to give you, and I got on the bus. Somebody got on with a bag of groceries, and I said they need it more than me.” He came back and gave us that $100. That guy has since come back numerous times, and he had Gordy go with him to the bank. The bank is sending us a check for $100 every month from his account. He had money when he first came to Lynchburg, and he has donated most of it. He has enough just to live. He really has the heart to help people. You look at him, and he has a long beard, long hair, but he has a heart. You never underestimate people. Don’t judge a book by its cover.
 Hugh: That’s a remarkable story. What do you think, Russ?
 Russell: I think that’s great. That’s probably typical of the work you’re doing there. It’s all about people. As you bring people in, they come through the front door, and it’s almost like having them slide into your funnel as it were. When I worked for a tribe, people walked through the door. My programs were about jobs and business, but I was familiar with all of the other programs around me within the tribe.
 When somebody walked into my office, they could start anywhere in that office, and they would be walked around from one end to the other, or across the street to the health clinic. When they walked in, they left with what they needed. Nobody took time to say, “This is not quite my job.” They would take the time. As a program director, we take time to walk people from one office to the other and make sure they are getting what they need before we hand them off. It’s a team effort. I looked at it as I worked for the community. I had a boss, I had the tribal chief and the tribal council, but I worked for the community. I am on display with everybody I serve.
 It is important for them to have satisfaction. It is important for people writing the checks to be satisfied. It is important to have good relations with the community. All of that is important. Everybody has to feel like they are winning here. I commend you for setting up that type of environment. Asking people what they like and why they serve is critical because once you find out what it is they like, you can do more of it.
 Even if they have to do a certain number of hours, they can do those hours with any nonprofit in Lynchburg, but they choose you. That is because of what you have been doing. That is your work on the culture. Find out a little bit more. I am in the frame of mind you can never ask too many questions to find out what makes people tick and to be there and to be that solution and have that heart of service that people need.
 As we are coming up on this holiday, this is a great time to remember a lot of these things we are grateful for. Are you going to see some people over the next few days? I know the holiday is coming. There are a lot of meals to be served. What is on the agenda for the rest of this week? And Giving Tuesday is coming up. What is on the agenda? What do folks need to know so they can help support the work you’re doing because you serve a lot of people in need there?
 Hugh: We are recording this prior to Thanksgiving in 2017, to put in context for people listening to the podcast. We are approaching a holiday where a lot of us eat a lot of food and celebrate with family that other people don’t have that option. What I have learned is when you are down and out, the society doesn’t help you most of the time. You guys are giving a hand up. This is so encouraging. To relay Russ’s question, what particular reflection do you have this season of the year? How do you interact with people that is different? Or is it different?
 Gordy: I don’t see it as different.
 Hugh: A lot of places shut down. It’s a trick question.
 Gordy: I don’t understand the question, haha.
 Hugh: A lot of places shut down, Russell. Oh, it’s a holiday. We are going to take time off. A lot of them close today and open again on Monday.
 Gordy: We have our Wednesday night dinner. It will be a sit-down, serve you at the table.
 Hugh: Who comes to that?
 Gordy: Everybody in the community is allowed to come. It’s an open-door policy. We don’t even know who will be there yet. But the expectation—I reached out today to get more tables and chairs because we are expecting a huge crowd.
 Hugh: Just to go back to the lineage and history of this that we heard, this was a very active large Methodist church. It dwindled down in membership, and it was no longer viable. The building is owned by the Methodist church. It reverted back to the district office who had to maintain it. Through the wisdom of the district superintendent, they started using it. It had a rebirth. Not just one church worships there, but there are at least three. Plus you have 13 different organizations. The ministry has sorted- It’s not all under the umbrella of the church. They are still ministries, I think. Go ahead.
 Ray: It’s a building that originally started in 1857 on that site. It has grown until now, where it is 26,000 square feet. Then it died, and it’s now been reborn and rebirthed in even a greater sense. It’s how the people use the facilities.
 What makes this site so unique is that it is in the very heart of the very poorest area. Two blocks away is the Salvation Army and the Center of Hope. Across the street is the public health department. Another block is a recreation center. There are ten Methodist churches within a two-mile radius of this. There is probably another 30 or 40 storefront churches and others around this. We have now partnered with another church, where a bus picks up people in the neighborhood. We give out so much food. We average 30 pounds of food for an individual in the family. A family of four will get over 100 pounds of food. The biggest problem they have is getting it home. They can’t get on the bus with that much. They all have to get taxis and share. It is a tremendous undertaking to take 80,000 pounds and distribute it in over two days. This past week leading up to Thanksgiving, we had over 300 families that went through there.
 Hugh: Say those numbers again. You just slid those in here. How many pounds of food?
 Ray: 80,000 pounds a month.
 Hugh: 80,000 pounds of food per month. That other figure.
 Ray: This past week, we had the most families we’ve ever had of 320-something families on Thursday and Saturday, just those two days.
 Hugh: Over 300 families. That’s a lot of people.
 Ray: Over 2,000 individuals.
 Hugh: Wow. On Saturday?
 Ray: Thursday and Saturday.
 Hugh: Thursday and Saturday. That is just one week in this month. The impact of your work is pretty huge. We find that helping charities define their impact in quantifiable terms helps them attract regular, recurring funding. Talk a bit about how you sustain this, how you continue to make sure there is operational money, food in place, and you pay the light bill. How do you attract the funding? How many sources does it come from? I’m sure there is some in-kind, but there is some cash in there, too, isn’t there?
 Ray: We have been tracking the cash. It comes from different areas. We get from churches, we get from organizations, we get a lot from grants. A lot of individual donations. If you donate $10, it will feed a family of four for one month. That is based on the supply of 100 pounds of food. We are able to present it that way. A lot of people respond to that because they want to help. It’s individuals, churches, organizations, and grants.
 Our biggest supporter by far is Walmart. Over that 80,000 pounds of food, a third of that comes from Walmart. We pick up from three Walmarts, a Little Caesars, a Panera Bread every week. Walmart supplies are tremendous. 30-40,000 pounds a month comes from Walmart. They have given us grants. We have had a $55,000 grant to widen the entrance so we can get food in easier. Last week, we got another $55,000 grant from Walmart to buy a refrigerated truck so we can keep the produce fresh longer and pick it up and keep it fresh. They give community service grants as well. The people here are just so supportive of what we do. This community is very supportive.
 Hugh: We qualify for that by showing the impact of your work. I want to point out to any businesspeople listening to this. You heard three brands mentioned here: Walmart, Panera, and Little Caesars. Those companies support you. You don’t have to toot their horn about their brand. It’s good for business to do this. This is the Walmart Foundation. It is philanthropic, but you have also had support from local stores, which is another source of funding.
 What I heard you say is you have individual and company donations. You have in-kind donations, which is the food. You do get grants, so that’s three. We teach charities there is eight streams of revenue. We have money, which we call partner money. It comes from a rotary foundation or a church. They have designated funds for particular projects. It’s not really a grant or a donation, so it’s partnering. They have the funds and aggregate and take a bunch of churches or a groups like a rotary foundation. Each rotary has their own foundation. They can purpose special gifts. For charities to think about partnering with churches, synagogues, and other community organizations that want to give you a little bit of money, and you multiply it by 10 or 20 organizations, then you have some sustainable revenue to help you sustain your work. Are there other sources of revenue? I heard those.
 Ray: I think you hit most of them there. You just never know when the Lord is going to bring something. Recently, last year, we got a big donation from an individual we have never heard of before, from another city. They just happened to have a family member that heard about it, and the foundation wrote us a check. We had to find out where it came from. You just never know how the Lord is going to provide and how the money is going to come. You never know.
 Hugh: Russell, we are on the final wrap here. We are going to run over time. Any closing comments from you or a parting question?
 Russell: I’d like to thank you for the fine work that you’re doing down there. You have some marvelous opportunities to leverage all the work you’re doing. I could say the same thing about the business. Find out what it is they like that makes them support you so you can just keep doing more of that and bring in more people through the door and keep talking to people. Those relationships are important. Keep working on culture because that is where it starts. This is what draws all of these gifts. When you have the right culture, you create the type of energy field, and the synergy to bring all this stuff about. Keep up what you’re doing. Blessings to you. Enjoy the holiday. I don’t know if you planned anything special for Giving Tuesday, but that is an opportunity to reach out and talk to people. Go on your Facebook feed and talk about the work you’re doing. Remind people that Giving Tuesday is an opportunity to support you.
 Hugh: I want you to think about a parting comment. There are people out there struggling who have not been able to get traction. What encouragement would you give them if they are thinking about starting or they have tried to start and haven’t got traction?
 As we are signing off here, which one of you wants to give a challenge, tip, or thought for somebody who wants to up their game?
 Ray: Never give up. Just keep trying.
 Gordy: Love the people you are doing it for.
 Hugh: Love the people you are doing it for. And I heard with. You do all of that. I watched you in action. You can’t hide. Thank you so much for sharing. Russell, we are three guys having coffee in my kitchen. This is a kickback.
 Russell: I am having coffee with you guys. It’s great. I noticed that I am drinking more coffee than you guys.
 Hugh: We don’t subscribe to whether it’s half full or half empty because we think it’s all refillable.
 Russell: It is.
 Hugh: Blessings to everyone. Thank you for great stories on this podcast.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8006b108-b329-11eb-9f0f-8f3c2fc28884/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Ray Booth and Gordy Harper Tell About the Success of the Charity</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Food for Families https://www.parkviewcommunitymission.org/food-for-families
 Interview Transcript
  
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. We have two guests today. They both work in the same charity. It’s called Food for Families. I was down there yesterday hearing some stories. There was a lunch gathering for a bunch of charities that work out of the same building. I have been talking to these guys for a while and said that we needed to tell their story because people have a lot of ideas, and putting some traction to ideas is pretty important. I learn from people who have lessons to teach, but I also learn from people who have life lessons to teach through stories. I am going to ask these two gentlemen to introduce themselves, a little bit about their background, and then we will circle around and talk about their foundation. Ray Booth, who are you?
 Ray Booth: I’m one of the rare breeds. I was born here, and I’ll die here. I’ll never live anywhere else.
 Hugh: We are in Lynchburg, Virginia by the way.
 Ray: It’s a great place. Come join us. I felt a calling early in my life to be an engineer, and I was a simple engineer graduate. After I got out of college, I felt called to ministry and considered that quite a bit. I think I’d do best in public service. I spent my whole working life in public service, first with the state government, then 25 years with the city as Director of Public Works. I have impacted this community. Everywhere I drive, I see my impacts and construction all the time. After I retired, I went to work with my construction company. I did more private/public partnerships here in Virginia in many of the cities and counties throughout Virginia. I retired from that, and now I am a consultant and real estate broker and am still trying to impact the community for the better.
 Hugh: Gordy Harper, tell us who you are.
 Gordy Harper: I am the director of Food for Families. Previously I was a real estate broker. Before that, a Harley Davidson dealer in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
 Hugh: We are across the state from the commonwealth. That is four or five hours away the other way.
 Gordy: Virginia Beach?
 Hugh: Yeah.
 Gordy: Four hours, at least.
 Hugh: It’s real flat over there.
 Gordy: Yes, it is.
 Hugh: I ran a half-marathon there. Part of the reason I chose it was because it was flat. The other part was because Yuengling served beer at the water stops.
 Food for Families, this is a nonprofit here. Let me set the context. We live in Lynchburg, Virginia. Lynchburg has one of the largest populations of those that live below the poverty line. I think 24% of the population. Food for Families is sort of geographically located where a lot of that population is. When was Food for Families started, and why was it started?
 Ray: Many years ago, Food for Families is located in a church that currently is in a poorest area in the city. Back in the ‘60s and ‘70s, it was the heartbeat of the city. The first shopping center was there. This was the in place to be. It grew exponentially and was one of the wealthier cities and churches in the city. As time moved on and the new shopping mall was built in the suburbs and all the retail people in that part of the city left and went to the new mall and the development moved there, this area became more of a transient location. Over time, the poorest people in the city moved into this area. Lynchburg in the early 1900’s was one of the six wealthiest cities in the nation. A lot of wealth here, and they built huge homes. We have a lot of beautiful inner city homes. They were turned into apartments in the ’50s and ‘60s. Once the people started to come and appreciate the architecture, they bought all of those homes and moved the poor people out.
 The poor people gathered around the Parkview Community Church. That is now the poorest area west of Richmond in the whole state of Virginia. The church was flourishing. As retail moved out, it started going downhill. They started having a Wednesday night meal every week. Back in 1996, a street person came in, and they fed him. The next week, he brought two of his friends. And more and more of the street people came in. More of the congregation left. They continued to feed the poor, and that number grew and grew. Still to this day, 21 years later, there is still a Wednesday night meal. We feed 125-150 people on Wednesday nights. The church started food boxes in 2007 because they saw all of these poor people on Wednesday night needing food. In 2008, the church was closed, and the food pantry survived another year or two until the guy who ran it died. It was closed for three or four months. Through a grant, we reopened the food pantry in 2011 as a client choice facility, the first one west of Richmond and one of the few-
 Hugh: Tell us what client choice means.
 Ray: Client choice means the neighbors come in and get a grocery cart and actually go back through the pantry and pick up the items their family will eat. Pick a produce, meat, dairy, bread, so forth. They only shop like you would shop in a grocery store or anywhere else and pick up the items their family will eat. That was very successful and still is to this day.
 There has been a number of changes over the years. In 2012, a gentleman who has never been married, very poor, never owned a car died and left $225,000 for the benefit of youth in Lynchburg and to be used by the district superintendent. They developed a partnership with UMFS, which houses foster care and adopting. They agreed to put a regional office there. They used a third of the money to run the space. After they came, the district office moved there. We divided expenses three ways and utilities, and the Lord has continued to bless over the years. It has really taken off, and now we have 13 different nonprofits in the building. Many of those are very complementary to Food for Families and the neighbors, and today we serve 25% of the poor people in Lynchburg with food. That’s 3,000 individuals. We have had as much as 80,000 pounds of food going through the facility.
 Hugh: 80,000 pounds. I have been by there on a Saturday. There is people waiting. Ray, when did you join this organization?
 Ray: I joined in 2010.
 Hugh: 2010. This is 2017 when we are making this recording. People may be listening to this in some other year or universe. Gordy, when did you join this organization?
 Gordy: 2016.
 Hugh: 2016. Year and a half. Ray is the chairman of the board, and you are?
 Gordy: The director.
 Hugh: What other data would you like to share? What I’m hearing is there are people who were doing something that was meaningful and they stayed with it. There is people listening to this who’ve had an idea and tried it, but haven’t really stayed with it long-term. I’ve also heard because of the value of the people staying with it, you attracted some funding and some other synergies with some other organizations. What other things do you want to share about what you know from the history and what the history is from 2016 going forward?
 Gordy: As I came in, what we tried to focus on was changing the culture. I would sit in meetings in the city and hear people talking about how they didn’t feel respected when they went into those places. A lady said a culture of respect, and that locked into my brain. I went back and we tried to change the culture and help people see our neighbors, our clients who we call neighbors, not clients. Our focus was on changing the culture. A lot of that is in developing relationships because what I was hearing was people needed to help them come from where they are. I just knew from my own life that if you wanted to help me come from where I was, you were going to have to have a relationship with me, to be able to sit with me and share with me and listen and take it to heart. It mattered the things you said to me. The first year I was there, I was trying to build relationships and trying to bring down the walls that people build up around themselves because of where they are. We tried to show the love of Christ to people.
 Hugh: Russell, they said a couple magic words. Relationships. They said culture. Do you have some comments or questions for these gentlemen?
 Russell: Culture is more than just a cereal. It’s supposed to be good. It’s wonderful because what you are talking about, and I have dealt with it a lot, is basic human dignity. Sometimes it’s hard for people to reach out for help because they are in a circumstance through no fault of their own, and it’s important to treat people with that basic dignity. I commend you for making the effort to do that and connecting with these people that you’re serving. I was also excited to hear that you are co-located with a number of different agencies. If you could, talk about some of the things you have been able to do with some of those other folks that are partnered with you to provide a more holistic service to those people you are serving.
 Gordy: We have a free clinic. We have tried to build relationships actually with all the different partners in the building. But we have a welcome center. Our welcome center is like a resource center, and I have set them up a satellite in our office. We are in the lower level of the building. Everything else is in the upper levels of our building. We have tried to establish ways to draw them down to where the neighbors are. But we have set a lady up in our office that can actually one-on-one with the neighbors. They are actually in the room waiting for hours at times. Some days I am there at 7:30, and there is a 2:00 distribution with people waiting already. We try to capture those morning hours where people are waiting to be able to shop and draw people in that can lead them to resources.
 The free clinic, we have an establishing relationship. There is a nurse practitioner in there that is going to come down and meet with the neighbors, announce what services are available, and what she has actually talked about is coming to the Wednesday night community meals and establishing relationships by sitting with the neighbors and letting them know what’s available. We are trying to get flu shots. There are little things we talk about just from what we hear with the neighbors and try to see what needs they have.
 We have a relationship with the local bank and a lady that is vice president there who is coming in and teaching personal finance classes, basic computing classes, reading, math skills, different things that will help people be in a better position to get employment.
 Ray: There is a nutritionist that has been there several years that is teaching cooking classes. While the neighbors are waiting, she is up there showing them how to cook. We also have a counseling service there. This facility started even before everybody else moved in with a facility bin there. We met there for over seven years.
 As a result of that synergy that came around that facility and those people being there, you have 50-60 people there every day at lunchtime for an AA meeting. As some of those people were able to overcome their addiction, one of them started a telecommunications company that is in the building that provides low-cost Internet and phone within a one-and-a-half-mile radius of the building. Two others actually formed a counseling service using the peer group model that is now extremely successful. They have contracts with all of the local school systems and hospitals, so if a student gets caught with drugs and alcohol, instead of being suspended, they are sent there. They have nine counselors now. They have a lot of people whose lives have turned around as a result of that.
 The UMFS has foster care and adopting services for the entire region. They have contracts with all the schools as well. We have three churches that meet there. One on Saturday that is in a growth of the AA group. A lot of the people at the church service are across the spectrum. We have doctors, lawyers, all types of people there that through prescription drugs and other things, you read about it so much today, that were cured or came off the addiction that didn’t feel comfortable in their own churches or places. They come there with brothers and sisters who shared the same war and are helping each other. After the worship service, they have a meal together. That’s every Saturday night.
 We have a Sunday morning church, and then we have a Sunday afternoon church. They are now getting more involved in the mission. Most recently, we have had one of the larger churches move their church office into the building because they want to be close to the neighbors and be more involved in administering to the poor. We have a number of different things there. We are continuing to try to expand more services as we get there. It’s continuing to grow.
 Hugh: Russell is one of the first people. SynerVision is the synergy of the common vision. I have trademarked that name. We like the word charity because nonprofit is a stupid word. You have to make some profit if you are going to do any good. We like the word charity a little better. It is a tax-exempt social benefit organization or social capital. Lots of ways to describe it. People think of nonprofit as a philosophy, not a tax classification. I don’t hear any of that thinking from what I hear today.
 Russell and I have reinvented the consultant model. I went from being a consultant to an insultant to a resultant. Now we partner with them to help them find the way, so we are WayFinders. We created a whole different paradigm because 98% of the consultants out there give the rest of us a bad name. Maybe they give answers, maybe they don’t. It’s the stock answer. Our calling is to give people information, free or at a price they can afford, so they can improve their culture, their service, and therefore improve their funding.
 I wanted to talk about two other pieces here. We teach leaders that you don’t push, you influence. I am hearing some of that in your dialogue. You have been steady. You have worked out these collaborations with these other organizations with some synergistic work. I am gathering you were the first one on board and the others have come on board since then. Because of the impact of your work, I want to shift, and a lot of charities do that, but I know since I’ve heard your stories. There is measurable, profound impact from the work you do. That is part of the position of influence. Your operational guidelines, your high standards of integrity, the value you give people: those are all really strong principles. Those are part of who you attract, both in the collaborations and in the funding side.
 If that influence piece makes some sense, you talked about improving the culture, redefining the culture. I’m not sure what word you used, but it was working on the culture. I watched you yesterday where you had most of those organizations represented at lunch. It was a lunch to share stories and be together. You were a servant leader there. You were handing out plates and checking on people. I don’t know if you were official, but you were an unofficial hospitality person yesterday. It gave me some insights into your leadership, sir.
 Culture is so important; that’s part of the work you do. Leadership is a culture. It’s not just a person, it’s the culture. What’s been your journey of helping them—I like the word transform rather than change—transform their whole idea of culture? Give us a snapshot of what that journey has been like.
 Gordy: It goes back probably. For this journey, when I was seeing it, people don’t really mean some of the things you see sometimes. It’s just more the nature of people as a whole unfortunately. I was watching. I would hear certain things and watch certain responses. It just wasn’t the outcome I was hoping for. I want more of a warm and comfortable- The way I have tried to sell it is the people we are serving don’t really get experiences. If I want to take my kids to Disneyworld or my grandkids, we are going to go. They don’t really get to do the same thing. We have tried to help people see that we want to create an experience where you look forward to coming back.
 I know it’s just shopping to some people, but to our neighbors, when you see that they will come, some come at six in the morning. I have had people tell me- We start at eight, so I come around 7:30. There can be 10-15 people waiting. It just makes me understand the value. I know it’s free groceries. But they get to come once a month. I would like over that month’s gap for them to really look forward to it. We try to take everything, implement everything we can to make it an ice experience. We want to do it like the nice stores do, like Walmart. You want it to be. We need vests to say, “How can I help?” We want it to be clean, well-stocked, and with customer experience. We have to put it in the mindset that an average person would be thinking. When you walk through the grocery stores, what do you see? What is happening around you? Everything is neat and in order. The only difference is that we bring our pallets right through the front door. We set them right in the middle of our produce room and start picking through it to be able to distribute the food. It’s harder to keep it clean. We don’t have people come in the middle of the night to stock us to be ready for opening tomorrow. We have certain challenges that Walmart has mastered because of finances and the help they were able to bring in. if you think of it as creating a wonderful experience and not just feeding people-
 Hugh: I love it. It’s the visual of people waiting in line for the new iPhone. They are excited.
 Gordy: It’s hard because my family does what everyone else does when they want to do it. We have been very blessed. But I realize these folks don’t.
 Hugh: It’s hard to realize that. Russell, we were born into white privilege. It’s not a disease, but there is a cure for it. I was in a room yesterday, and I said to Leigh Anne, “It’s nice to be in a room where everybody doesn’t look like me.” Because if everybody were to look like me, that would be scary. We had a cross-section of Lynchburg in that room. Age demographic, educational background, race, some of us better-looking than others, but not me.
 The culture thing is something that we work with charities and churches on because we have inherited a culture. We don’t realize that people aren’t responding to us because we are doing the things the same way. I started a workshop Saturday with church leaders, and I said, “Who knows the seven last words of a church?” Nobody knew. “We have never done it that way before.” I said a lot of us come to meetings with that written on our foreheads. How about stripping it off? Let’s start with an open brain.
 You came in 18 months ago. Ray, what sort of transformation has happened during his tenure so far?
 Ray: Obviously his approach is very positive and very much like what we were all looking for. Our previous people took it more- In fact, he was a retired military person and was more for giving orders and this is the way we do it type of approach. That doesn’t create the same level of respect. You have to have a heart that you want to share and relate to these people rather than treat them as something to go through the door. Gordy has brought the heart into it. As a result of his faith, he has ben able to share that heart and love with the people. That is something I strongly believe in and something I try to do. I grew up very poor, not white privilege. I relate to these people really well. It’s all by the grace of God. It could be any of us. It’s been wonderful to see Gordy there and the way he has transformed the people there.
 The other thing that has been such a huge benefit is the tremendous amount of volunteers we have. We have only a couple part-time people. Gordy is part-time. It takes at least 30 volunteers to run a distribution day. We have brought hundreds of volunteers in and hundreds of volunteer hours. If it wasn’t for the volunteers, we couldn’t survive. It’s important for the volunteers to have a good experience as it is for the neighbors. If they don’t appreciate and we don’t appreciate them and what they do, they wouldn’t be coming back. We have a tremendous amount of volunteers repeat on a continuous basis.
 Also, Wednesday nights, we have numerous groups that cook the food, serve the food, provide music devotions, and relate to the people. That is probably 30 different groups over the years. That creates an experience of love and a relationship that carries forward into the volunteers on Thursday and Saturday and Wednesdays.
 Hugh: This is what Gordy’s brought to the table. We like to teach that culture is a reflection of the leader. We want to criticize other people and take the blame off of ourselves. I want to ask some stories. Russell, what questions are you hearing, and do you want to throw some questions on the table?
 Russell: What we are talking about is critically important. There is reasons why people want to support you. A nonprofit that is effective creates win-win-win scenarios: wins for the people who are working, wins for the people they serve, and wins for their supporters, whether they are giving time, talent, or treasure. Having the connection with people.
 When you go into a community, particularly if you look different, there is a bit of a level of suspicion you have to overcome. That has been my experience. People get to know you and see you as genuine. You go in and ask a lot of questions; you don’t walk in with a lot of answers. People respond to that, and it’s a constant dialogue. How can we make this better? How can we serve you best? What is something that we can do that we’re not doing? These are all things to be critical. It’s having these conversations.
 You have hundreds of volunteers. I am seeing people like Travis Smith, who has spread impact locally to 11 cities now. He has been successful at leveraging large numbers of volunteers. The question that I have is: What are you learning as you ask the people who volunteer for you why they keep coming back, why they enjoy serving, what makes them want to work with you?
 Gordy: That’s a tough one to figure out. We do get responses and things from people. I haven’t really done a lot of research on it as much as it seems almost a standard amongst, especially the students. I see the students come in, and they start, they don’t know where to plug in. Some of them require hours and things like that, community service hours. You can start to see develop within them a heart for service. I think most of the young people nowadays really want to do something. They have something inside them that is stirring to give back. It’s interesting because I know one of the local colleges, they get 20 hours they are required to serve in their community. Over and over, I get comments of, “I had to do it up until then. I want to do it now.” It’s just something stirs within them to make them come back and want to do it. I think any of us, they will actually step outside of our comfort zone and go into these places and start to invest your time and energy, it’s in us.
 Ray: All of us want to do things and please people. When we serve people, these people appreciate it and show their appreciation verbally, nonverbally, and so forth. Everything you do is appreciated. That warms people’s hearts, and they want to continue to be able to help the people. It’s all about being able to help and se that immediate impact and the smile on the face. That is what brings them back, and that is why if they get past that first hurdle and get comfortable, at least talk to people, then they can develop a dialogue. Particularly for young people, they don’t have the boxes that older people do as it relates to race, culture, etc. They more quickly join in if you will than the older people. They have a harder struggle sometimes getting past that barrier.
 One of the big things that has been in Lynchburg the last five, six, seven years is Bridges over Poverty. We have gone through lots of training on that. Just a local pastor recently shared with me that he had the white privilege, if you will, to serve in larger churches. He really didn’t know how to talk to the poor. He went into one of these Bridges programs and came back and tried some different things. All of a sudden, they responded, and all of a sudden, he comes back every week because he’s retired and he sees how he can bring a smile to these people’s faces and how they can all of a sudden smile rather than sit there frowning.
 Hugh: We bought this house recently. I said to the realtor and the mover, “You do this all the time, but we felt like we were your only clients. We move once in a great while. You move somebody every day. You sell a house every day.” These people, it’s a unique experience for them. You’re doing it all the time. What I am hearing about the culture it is a profound experience for everybody. You have created a win-win for everybody. Parts of white privilege don’t have to do with money. Just because we’re old white guys, there is a lot of dimensions to that. What I am hearing is you have evened the playing field in that people are people.
 I’d like to hear a couple of stories that you can share. We have some time here. Is there a story of impact? Either one of you can start. Is there a story that you’d like to share that warms your heart or really made a difference in somebody’s life?
 Gordy: Recently, we had two ladies come in. it was an off-time in our schedule. They were homeless. The way it hit me was it was impactful because of the pieces that came together. We are sitting in the office. We were able to draw the lady from the welcome center. She was in there. We were able to see them get their housing that evening. By establishing the housing, we were able to establish their food. She was able to get them bus passes. All the pieces, we stood in the office, and we talked it all through. All the pieces in a matter of 15 minutes came together. We stood there, we all held hands together, prayed together. We said, “Wouldn’t it be something if six months from now, we talked about, Remember when we all gathered here and figured out all the pieces?”
 In two weeks, they came in and both had jobs. It was powerful for them to come in and share and for us to remember all the different resources aligned at that moment. It’s a powerful image of us remembering to draw the resources. You have to keep a pool of everybody together. They wanted me to understand all of our resources there and make sure what’s happening and get everybody everything they need and understand that the other partners in our mission are in as well. We have come to find out they are in as well, and they were actually doing some things that I hadn’t even realized.
 The counseling, I sat with one of them and said, “I really want to figure out what we can do together.” They’re like, “Did you not realize Steve has been sending people up for a long time?” I’m like, “I did not realize.” Steve is the face you see first when you come into the office. Steve has been directing people to the resources they needed.
 Ray: There are so many stories that happen all the time. We had a guy come in the office, and we had been getting money from somebody that gave us $100 a month for a long time. We didn’t know who it really was. One day, this guy comes through the door and says he didn’t have a car or anything. He rode the bus. “One month, I didn’t have the money to give you, and I got on the bus. Somebody got on with a bag of groceries, and I said they need it more than me.” He came back and gave us that $100. That guy has since come back numerous times, and he had Gordy go with him to the bank. The bank is sending us a check for $100 every month from his account. He had money when he first came to Lynchburg, and he has donated most of it. He has enough just to live. He really has the heart to help people. You look at him, and he has a long beard, long hair, but he has a heart. You never underestimate people. Don’t judge a book by its cover.
 Hugh: That’s a remarkable story. What do you think, Russ?
 Russell: I think that’s great. That’s probably typical of the work you’re doing there. It’s all about people. As you bring people in, they come through the front door, and it’s almost like having them slide into your funnel as it were. When I worked for a tribe, people walked through the door. My programs were about jobs and business, but I was familiar with all of the other programs around me within the tribe.
 When somebody walked into my office, they could start anywhere in that office, and they would be walked around from one end to the other, or across the street to the health clinic. When they walked in, they left with what they needed. Nobody took time to say, “This is not quite my job.” They would take the time. As a program director, we take time to walk people from one office to the other and make sure they are getting what they need before we hand them off. It’s a team effort. I looked at it as I worked for the community. I had a boss, I had the tribal chief and the tribal council, but I worked for the community. I am on display with everybody I serve.
 It is important for them to have satisfaction. It is important for people writing the checks to be satisfied. It is important to have good relations with the community. All of that is important. Everybody has to feel like they are winning here. I commend you for setting up that type of environment. Asking people what they like and why they serve is critical because once you find out what it is they like, you can do more of it.
 Even if they have to do a certain number of hours, they can do those hours with any nonprofit in Lynchburg, but they choose you. That is because of what you have been doing. That is your work on the culture. Find out a little bit more. I am in the frame of mind you can never ask too many questions to find out what makes people tick and to be there and to be that solution and have that heart of service that people need.
 As we are coming up on this holiday, this is a great time to remember a lot of these things we are grateful for. Are you going to see some people over the next few days? I know the holiday is coming. There are a lot of meals to be served. What is on the agenda for the rest of this week? And Giving Tuesday is coming up. What is on the agenda? What do folks need to know so they can help support the work you’re doing because you serve a lot of people in need there?
 Hugh: We are recording this prior to Thanksgiving in 2017, to put in context for people listening to the podcast. We are approaching a holiday where a lot of us eat a lot of food and celebrate with family that other people don’t have that option. What I have learned is when you are down and out, the society doesn’t help you most of the time. You guys are giving a hand up. This is so encouraging. To relay Russ’s question, what particular reflection do you have this season of the year? How do you interact with people that is different? Or is it different?
 Gordy: I don’t see it as different.
 Hugh: A lot of places shut down. It’s a trick question.
 Gordy: I don’t understand the question, haha.
 Hugh: A lot of places shut down, Russell. Oh, it’s a holiday. We are going to take time off. A lot of them close today and open again on Monday.
 Gordy: We have our Wednesday night dinner. It will be a sit-down, serve you at the table.
 Hugh: Who comes to that?
 Gordy: Everybody in the community is allowed to come. It’s an open-door policy. We don’t even know who will be there yet. But the expectation—I reached out today to get more tables and chairs because we are expecting a huge crowd.
 Hugh: Just to go back to the lineage and history of this that we heard, this was a very active large Methodist church. It dwindled down in membership, and it was no longer viable. The building is owned by the Methodist church. It reverted back to the district office who had to maintain it. Through the wisdom of the district superintendent, they started using it. It had a rebirth. Not just one church worships there, but there are at least three. Plus you have 13 different organizations. The ministry has sorted- It’s not all under the umbrella of the church. They are still ministries, I think. Go ahead.
 Ray: It’s a building that originally started in 1857 on that site. It has grown until now, where it is 26,000 square feet. Then it died, and it’s now been reborn and rebirthed in even a greater sense. It’s how the people use the facilities.
 What makes this site so unique is that it is in the very heart of the very poorest area. Two blocks away is the Salvation Army and the Center of Hope. Across the street is the public health department. Another block is a recreation center. There are ten Methodist churches within a two-mile radius of this. There is probably another 30 or 40 storefront churches and others around this. We have now partnered with another church, where a bus picks up people in the neighborhood. We give out so much food. We average 30 pounds of food for an individual in the family. A family of four will get over 100 pounds of food. The biggest problem they have is getting it home. They can’t get on the bus with that much. They all have to get taxis and share. It is a tremendous undertaking to take 80,000 pounds and distribute it in over two days. This past week leading up to Thanksgiving, we had over 300 families that went through there.
 Hugh: Say those numbers again. You just slid those in here. How many pounds of food?
 Ray: 80,000 pounds a month.
 Hugh: 80,000 pounds of food per month. That other figure.
 Ray: This past week, we had the most families we’ve ever had of 320-something families on Thursday and Saturday, just those two days.
 Hugh: Over 300 families. That’s a lot of people.
 Ray: Over 2,000 individuals.
 Hugh: Wow. On Saturday?
 Ray: Thursday and Saturday.
 Hugh: Thursday and Saturday. That is just one week in this month. The impact of your work is pretty huge. We find that helping charities define their impact in quantifiable terms helps them attract regular, recurring funding. Talk a bit about how you sustain this, how you continue to make sure there is operational money, food in place, and you pay the light bill. How do you attract the funding? How many sources does it come from? I’m sure there is some in-kind, but there is some cash in there, too, isn’t there?
 Ray: We have been tracking the cash. It comes from different areas. We get from churches, we get from organizations, we get a lot from grants. A lot of individual donations. If you donate $10, it will feed a family of four for one month. That is based on the supply of 100 pounds of food. We are able to present it that way. A lot of people respond to that because they want to help. It’s individuals, churches, organizations, and grants.
 Our biggest supporter by far is Walmart. Over that 80,000 pounds of food, a third of that comes from Walmart. We pick up from three Walmarts, a Little Caesars, a Panera Bread every week. Walmart supplies are tremendous. 30-40,000 pounds a month comes from Walmart. They have given us grants. We have had a $55,000 grant to widen the entrance so we can get food in easier. Last week, we got another $55,000 grant from Walmart to buy a refrigerated truck so we can keep the produce fresh longer and pick it up and keep it fresh. They give community service grants as well. The people here are just so supportive of what we do. This community is very supportive.
 Hugh: We qualify for that by showing the impact of your work. I want to point out to any businesspeople listening to this. You heard three brands mentioned here: Walmart, Panera, and Little Caesars. Those companies support you. You don’t have to toot their horn about their brand. It’s good for business to do this. This is the Walmart Foundation. It is philanthropic, but you have also had support from local stores, which is another source of funding.
 What I heard you say is you have individual and company donations. You have in-kind donations, which is the food. You do get grants, so that’s three. We teach charities there is eight streams of revenue. We have money, which we call partner money. It comes from a rotary foundation or a church. They have designated funds for particular projects. It’s not really a grant or a donation, so it’s partnering. They have the funds and aggregate and take a bunch of churches or a groups like a rotary foundation. Each rotary has their own foundation. They can purpose special gifts. For charities to think about partnering with churches, synagogues, and other community organizations that want to give you a little bit of money, and you multiply it by 10 or 20 organizations, then you have some sustainable revenue to help you sustain your work. Are there other sources of revenue? I heard those.
 Ray: I think you hit most of them there. You just never know when the Lord is going to bring something. Recently, last year, we got a big donation from an individual we have never heard of before, from another city. They just happened to have a family member that heard about it, and the foundation wrote us a check. We had to find out where it came from. You just never know how the Lord is going to provide and how the money is going to come. You never know.
 Hugh: Russell, we are on the final wrap here. We are going to run over time. Any closing comments from you or a parting question?
 Russell: I’d like to thank you for the fine work that you’re doing down there. You have some marvelous opportunities to leverage all the work you’re doing. I could say the same thing about the business. Find out what it is they like that makes them support you so you can just keep doing more of that and bring in more people through the door and keep talking to people. Those relationships are important. Keep working on culture because that is where it starts. This is what draws all of these gifts. When you have the right culture, you create the type of energy field, and the synergy to bring all this stuff about. Keep up what you’re doing. Blessings to you. Enjoy the holiday. I don’t know if you planned anything special for Giving Tuesday, but that is an opportunity to reach out and talk to people. Go on your Facebook feed and talk about the work you’re doing. Remind people that Giving Tuesday is an opportunity to support you.
 Hugh: I want you to think about a parting comment. There are people out there struggling who have not been able to get traction. What encouragement would you give them if they are thinking about starting or they have tried to start and haven’t got traction?
 As we are signing off here, which one of you wants to give a challenge, tip, or thought for somebody who wants to up their game?
 Ray: Never give up. Just keep trying.
 Gordy: Love the people you are doing it for.
 Hugh: Love the people you are doing it for. And I heard with. You do all of that. I watched you in action. You can’t hide. Thank you so much for sharing. Russell, we are three guys having coffee in my kitchen. This is a kickback.
 Russell: I am having coffee with you guys. It’s great. I noticed that I am drinking more coffee than you guys.
 Hugh: We don’t subscribe to whether it’s half full or half empty because we think it’s all refillable.
 Russell: It is.
 Hugh: Blessings to everyone. Thank you for great stories on this podcast.
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        <![CDATA[<p>Food for Families <a href="https://www.parkviewcommunitymission.org/food-for-families">https://www.parkviewcommunitymission.org/food-for-families</a></p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. We have two guests today. They both work in the same charity. It’s called Food for Families. I was down there yesterday hearing some stories. There was a lunch gathering for a bunch of charities that work out of the same building. I have been talking to these guys for a while and said that we needed to tell their story because people have a lot of ideas, and putting some traction to ideas is pretty important. I learn from people who have lessons to teach, but I also learn from people who have life lessons to teach through stories. I am going to ask these two gentlemen to introduce themselves, a little bit about their background, and then we will circle around and talk about their foundation. Ray Booth, who are you?</p> <p><strong>Ray Booth:</strong> I’m one of the rare breeds. I was born here, and I’ll die here. I’ll never live anywhere else.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are in Lynchburg, Virginia by the way.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> It’s a great place. Come join us. I felt a calling early in my life to be an engineer, and I was a simple engineer graduate. After I got out of college, I felt called to ministry and considered that quite a bit. I think I’d do best in public service. I spent my whole working life in public service, first with the state government, then 25 years with the city as Director of Public Works. I have impacted this community. Everywhere I drive, I see my impacts and construction all the time. After I retired, I went to work with my construction company. I did more private/public partnerships here in Virginia in many of the cities and counties throughout Virginia. I retired from that, and now I am a consultant and real estate broker and am still trying to impact the community for the better.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Gordy Harper, tell us who you are.</p> <p><strong>Gordy Harper:</strong> I am the director of Food for Families. Previously I was a real estate broker. Before that, a Harley Davidson dealer in Virginia Beach, Virginia.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are across the state from the commonwealth. That is four or five hours away the other way.</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> Virginia Beach?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yeah.</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> Four hours, at least.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s real flat over there.</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> Yes, it is.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I ran a half-marathon there. Part of the reason I chose it was because it was flat. The other part was because Yuengling served beer at the water stops.</p> <p>Food for Families, this is a nonprofit here. Let me set the context. We live in Lynchburg, Virginia. Lynchburg has one of the largest populations of those that live below the poverty line. I think 24% of the population. Food for Families is sort of geographically located where a lot of that population is. When was Food for Families started, and why was it started?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Many years ago, Food for Families is located in a church that currently is in a poorest area in the city. Back in the ‘60s and ‘70s, it was the heartbeat of the city. The first shopping center was there. This was the in place to be. It grew exponentially and was one of the wealthier cities and churches in the city. As time moved on and the new shopping mall was built in the suburbs and all the retail people in that part of the city left and went to the new mall and the development moved there, this area became more of a transient location. Over time, the poorest people in the city moved into this area. Lynchburg in the early 1900’s was one of the six wealthiest cities in the nation. A lot of wealth here, and they built huge homes. We have a lot of beautiful inner city homes. They were turned into apartments in the ’50s and ‘60s. Once the people started to come and appreciate the architecture, they bought all of those homes and moved the poor people out.</p> <p>The poor people gathered around the Parkview Community Church. That is now the poorest area west of Richmond in the whole state of Virginia. The church was flourishing. As retail moved out, it started going downhill. They started having a Wednesday night meal every week. Back in 1996, a street person came in, and they fed him. The next week, he brought two of his friends. And more and more of the street people came in. More of the congregation left. They continued to feed the poor, and that number grew and grew. Still to this day, 21 years later, there is still a Wednesday night meal. We feed 125-150 people on Wednesday nights. The church started food boxes in 2007 because they saw all of these poor people on Wednesday night needing food. In 2008, the church was closed, and the food pantry survived another year or two until the guy who ran it died. It was closed for three or four months. Through a grant, we reopened the food pantry in 2011 as a client choice facility, the first one west of Richmond and one of the few-</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tell us what client choice means.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Client choice means the neighbors come in and get a grocery cart and actually go back through the pantry and pick up the items their family will eat. Pick a produce, meat, dairy, bread, so forth. They only shop like you would shop in a grocery store or anywhere else and pick up the items their family will eat. That was very successful and still is to this day.</p> <p>There has been a number of changes over the years. In 2012, a gentleman who has never been married, very poor, never owned a car died and left $225,000 for the benefit of youth in Lynchburg and to be used by the district superintendent. They developed a partnership with UMFS, which houses foster care and adopting. They agreed to put a regional office there. They used a third of the money to run the space. After they came, the district office moved there. We divided expenses three ways and utilities, and the Lord has continued to bless over the years. It has really taken off, and now we have 13 different nonprofits in the building. Many of those are very complementary to Food for Families and the neighbors, and today we serve 25% of the poor people in Lynchburg with food. That’s 3,000 individuals. We have had as much as 80,000 pounds of food going through the facility.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> 80,000 pounds. I have been by there on a Saturday. There is people waiting. Ray, when did you join this organization?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> I joined in 2010.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> 2010. This is 2017 when we are making this recording. People may be listening to this in some other year or universe. Gordy, when did you join this organization?</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> 2016.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> 2016. Year and a half. Ray is the chairman of the board, and you are?</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> The director.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What other data would you like to share? What I’m hearing is there are people who were doing something that was meaningful and they stayed with it. There is people listening to this who’ve had an idea and tried it, but haven’t really stayed with it long-term. I’ve also heard because of the value of the people staying with it, you attracted some funding and some other synergies with some other organizations. What other things do you want to share about what you know from the history and what the history is from 2016 going forward?</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> As I came in, what we tried to focus on was changing the culture. I would sit in meetings in the city and hear people talking about how they didn’t feel respected when they went into those places. A lady said a culture of respect, and that locked into my brain. I went back and we tried to change the culture and help people see our neighbors, our clients who we call neighbors, not clients. Our focus was on changing the culture. A lot of that is in developing relationships because what I was hearing was people needed to help them come from where they are. I just knew from my own life that if you wanted to help me come from where I was, you were going to have to have a relationship with me, to be able to sit with me and share with me and listen and take it to heart. It mattered the things you said to me. The first year I was there, I was trying to build relationships and trying to bring down the walls that people build up around themselves because of where they are. We tried to show the love of Christ to people.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, they said a couple magic words. Relationships. They said culture. Do you have some comments or questions for these gentlemen?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Culture is more than just a cereal. It’s supposed to be good. It’s wonderful because what you are talking about, and I have dealt with it a lot, is basic human dignity. Sometimes it’s hard for people to reach out for help because they are in a circumstance through no fault of their own, and it’s important to treat people with that basic dignity. I commend you for making the effort to do that and connecting with these people that you’re serving. I was also excited to hear that you are co-located with a number of different agencies. If you could, talk about some of the things you have been able to do with some of those other folks that are partnered with you to provide a more holistic service to those people you are serving.</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> We have a free clinic. We have tried to build relationships actually with all the different partners in the building. But we have a welcome center. Our welcome center is like a resource center, and I have set them up a satellite in our office. We are in the lower level of the building. Everything else is in the upper levels of our building. We have tried to establish ways to draw them down to where the neighbors are. But we have set a lady up in our office that can actually one-on-one with the neighbors. They are actually in the room waiting for hours at times. Some days I am there at 7:30, and there is a 2:00 distribution with people waiting already. We try to capture those morning hours where people are waiting to be able to shop and draw people in that can lead them to resources.</p> <p>The free clinic, we have an establishing relationship. There is a nurse practitioner in there that is going to come down and meet with the neighbors, announce what services are available, and what she has actually talked about is coming to the Wednesday night community meals and establishing relationships by sitting with the neighbors and letting them know what’s available. We are trying to get flu shots. There are little things we talk about just from what we hear with the neighbors and try to see what needs they have.</p> <p>We have a relationship with the local bank and a lady that is vice president there who is coming in and teaching personal finance classes, basic computing classes, reading, math skills, different things that will help people be in a better position to get employment.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> There is a nutritionist that has been there several years that is teaching cooking classes. While the neighbors are waiting, she is up there showing them how to cook. We also have a counseling service there. This facility started even before everybody else moved in with a facility bin there. We met there for over seven years.</p> <p>As a result of that synergy that came around that facility and those people being there, you have 50-60 people there every day at lunchtime for an AA meeting. As some of those people were able to overcome their addiction, one of them started a telecommunications company that is in the building that provides low-cost Internet and phone within a one-and-a-half-mile radius of the building. Two others actually formed a counseling service using the peer group model that is now extremely successful. They have contracts with all of the local school systems and hospitals, so if a student gets caught with drugs and alcohol, instead of being suspended, they are sent there. They have nine counselors now. They have a lot of people whose lives have turned around as a result of that.</p> <p>The UMFS has foster care and adopting services for the entire region. They have contracts with all the schools as well. We have three churches that meet there. One on Saturday that is in a growth of the AA group. A lot of the people at the church service are across the spectrum. We have doctors, lawyers, all types of people there that through prescription drugs and other things, you read about it so much today, that were cured or came off the addiction that didn’t feel comfortable in their own churches or places. They come there with brothers and sisters who shared the same war and are helping each other. After the worship service, they have a meal together. That’s every Saturday night.</p> <p>We have a Sunday morning church, and then we have a Sunday afternoon church. They are now getting more involved in the mission. Most recently, we have had one of the larger churches move their church office into the building because they want to be close to the neighbors and be more involved in administering to the poor. We have a number of different things there. We are continuing to try to expand more services as we get there. It’s continuing to grow.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell is one of the first people. SynerVision is the synergy of the common vision. I have trademarked that name. We like the word charity because nonprofit is a stupid word. You have to make some profit if you are going to do any good. We like the word charity a little better. It is a tax-exempt social benefit organization or social capital. Lots of ways to describe it. People think of nonprofit as a philosophy, not a tax classification. I don’t hear any of that thinking from what I hear today.</p> <p>Russell and I have reinvented the consultant model. I went from being a consultant to an insultant to a resultant. Now we partner with them to help them find the way, so we are WayFinders. We created a whole different paradigm because 98% of the consultants out there give the rest of us a bad name. Maybe they give answers, maybe they don’t. It’s the stock answer. Our calling is to give people information, free or at a price they can afford, so they can improve their culture, their service, and therefore improve their funding.</p> <p>I wanted to talk about two other pieces here. We teach leaders that you don’t push, you influence. I am hearing some of that in your dialogue. You have been steady. You have worked out these collaborations with these other organizations with some synergistic work. I am gathering you were the first one on board and the others have come on board since then. Because of the impact of your work, I want to shift, and a lot of charities do that, but I know since I’ve heard your stories. There is measurable, profound impact from the work you do. That is part of the position of influence. Your operational guidelines, your high standards of integrity, the value you give people: those are all really strong principles. Those are part of who you attract, both in the collaborations and in the funding side.</p> <p>If that influence piece makes some sense, you talked about improving the culture, redefining the culture. I’m not sure what word you used, but it was working on the culture. I watched you yesterday where you had most of those organizations represented at lunch. It was a lunch to share stories and be together. You were a servant leader there. You were handing out plates and checking on people. I don’t know if you were official, but you were an unofficial hospitality person yesterday. It gave me some insights into your leadership, sir.</p> <p>Culture is so important; that’s part of the work you do. Leadership is a culture. It’s not just a person, it’s the culture. What’s been your journey of helping them—I like the word transform rather than change—transform their whole idea of culture? Give us a snapshot of what that journey has been like.</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> It goes back probably. For this journey, when I was seeing it, people don’t really mean some of the things you see sometimes. It’s just more the nature of people as a whole unfortunately. I was watching. I would hear certain things and watch certain responses. It just wasn’t the outcome I was hoping for. I want more of a warm and comfortable- The way I have tried to sell it is the people we are serving don’t really get experiences. If I want to take my kids to Disneyworld or my grandkids, we are going to go. They don’t really get to do the same thing. We have tried to help people see that we want to create an experience where you look forward to coming back.</p> <p>I know it’s just shopping to some people, but to our neighbors, when you see that they will come, some come at six in the morning. I have had people tell me- We start at eight, so I come around 7:30. There can be 10-15 people waiting. It just makes me understand the value. I know it’s free groceries. But they get to come once a month. I would like over that month’s gap for them to really look forward to it. We try to take everything, implement everything we can to make it an ice experience. We want to do it like the nice stores do, like Walmart. You want it to be. We need vests to say, “How can I help?” We want it to be clean, well-stocked, and with customer experience. We have to put it in the mindset that an average person would be thinking. When you walk through the grocery stores, what do you see? What is happening around you? Everything is neat and in order. The only difference is that we bring our pallets right through the front door. We set them right in the middle of our produce room and start picking through it to be able to distribute the food. It’s harder to keep it clean. We don’t have people come in the middle of the night to stock us to be ready for opening tomorrow. We have certain challenges that Walmart has mastered because of finances and the help they were able to bring in. if you think of it as creating a wonderful experience and not just feeding people-</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I love it. It’s the visual of people waiting in line for the new iPhone. They are excited.</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> It’s hard because my family does what everyone else does when they want to do it. We have been very blessed. But I realize these folks don’t.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s hard to realize that. Russell, we were born into white privilege. It’s not a disease, but there is a cure for it. I was in a room yesterday, and I said to Leigh Anne, “It’s nice to be in a room where everybody doesn’t look like me.” Because if everybody were to look like me, that would be scary. We had a cross-section of Lynchburg in that room. Age demographic, educational background, race, some of us better-looking than others, but not me.</p> <p>The culture thing is something that we work with charities and churches on because we have inherited a culture. We don’t realize that people aren’t responding to us because we are doing the things the same way. I started a workshop Saturday with church leaders, and I said, “Who knows the seven last words of a church?” Nobody knew. “We have never done it that way before.” I said a lot of us come to meetings with that written on our foreheads. How about stripping it off? Let’s start with an open brain.</p> <p>You came in 18 months ago. Ray, what sort of transformation has happened during his tenure so far?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Obviously his approach is very positive and very much like what we were all looking for. Our previous people took it more- In fact, he was a retired military person and was more for giving orders and this is the way we do it type of approach. That doesn’t create the same level of respect. You have to have a heart that you want to share and relate to these people rather than treat them as something to go through the door. Gordy has brought the heart into it. As a result of his faith, he has ben able to share that heart and love with the people. That is something I strongly believe in and something I try to do. I grew up very poor, not white privilege. I relate to these people really well. It’s all by the grace of God. It could be any of us. It’s been wonderful to see Gordy there and the way he has transformed the people there.</p> <p>The other thing that has been such a huge benefit is the tremendous amount of volunteers we have. We have only a couple part-time people. Gordy is part-time. It takes at least 30 volunteers to run a distribution day. We have brought hundreds of volunteers in and hundreds of volunteer hours. If it wasn’t for the volunteers, we couldn’t survive. It’s important for the volunteers to have a good experience as it is for the neighbors. If they don’t appreciate and we don’t appreciate them and what they do, they wouldn’t be coming back. We have a tremendous amount of volunteers repeat on a continuous basis.</p> <p>Also, Wednesday nights, we have numerous groups that cook the food, serve the food, provide music devotions, and relate to the people. That is probably 30 different groups over the years. That creates an experience of love and a relationship that carries forward into the volunteers on Thursday and Saturday and Wednesdays.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is what Gordy’s brought to the table. We like to teach that culture is a reflection of the leader. We want to criticize other people and take the blame off of ourselves. I want to ask some stories. Russell, what questions are you hearing, and do you want to throw some questions on the table?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What we are talking about is critically important. There is reasons why people want to support you. A nonprofit that is effective creates win-win-win scenarios: wins for the people who are working, wins for the people they serve, and wins for their supporters, whether they are giving time, talent, or treasure. Having the connection with people.</p> <p>When you go into a community, particularly if you look different, there is a bit of a level of suspicion you have to overcome. That has been my experience. People get to know you and see you as genuine. You go in and ask a lot of questions; you don’t walk in with a lot of answers. People respond to that, and it’s a constant dialogue. How can we make this better? How can we serve you best? What is something that we can do that we’re not doing? These are all things to be critical. It’s having these conversations.</p> <p>You have hundreds of volunteers. I am seeing people like Travis Smith, who has spread impact locally to 11 cities now. He has been successful at leveraging large numbers of volunteers. The question that I have is: What are you learning as you ask the people who volunteer for you why they keep coming back, why they enjoy serving, what makes them want to work with you?</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> That’s a tough one to figure out. We do get responses and things from people. I haven’t really done a lot of research on it as much as it seems almost a standard amongst, especially the students. I see the students come in, and they start, they don’t know where to plug in. Some of them require hours and things like that, community service hours. You can start to see develop within them a heart for service. I think most of the young people nowadays really want to do something. They have something inside them that is stirring to give back. It’s interesting because I know one of the local colleges, they get 20 hours they are required to serve in their community. Over and over, I get comments of, “I had to do it up until then. I want to do it now.” It’s just something stirs within them to make them come back and want to do it. I think any of us, they will actually step outside of our comfort zone and go into these places and start to invest your time and energy, it’s in us.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> All of us want to do things and please people. When we serve people, these people appreciate it and show their appreciation verbally, nonverbally, and so forth. Everything you do is appreciated. That warms people’s hearts, and they want to continue to be able to help the people. It’s all about being able to help and se that immediate impact and the smile on the face. That is what brings them back, and that is why if they get past that first hurdle and get comfortable, at least talk to people, then they can develop a dialogue. Particularly for young people, they don’t have the boxes that older people do as it relates to race, culture, etc. They more quickly join in if you will than the older people. They have a harder struggle sometimes getting past that barrier.</p> <p>One of the big things that has been in Lynchburg the last five, six, seven years is Bridges over Poverty. We have gone through lots of training on that. Just a local pastor recently shared with me that he had the white privilege, if you will, to serve in larger churches. He really didn’t know how to talk to the poor. He went into one of these Bridges programs and came back and tried some different things. All of a sudden, they responded, and all of a sudden, he comes back every week because he’s retired and he sees how he can bring a smile to these people’s faces and how they can all of a sudden smile rather than sit there frowning.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We bought this house recently. I said to the realtor and the mover, “You do this all the time, but we felt like we were your only clients. We move once in a great while. You move somebody every day. You sell a house every day.” These people, it’s a unique experience for them. You’re doing it all the time. What I am hearing about the culture it is a profound experience for everybody. You have created a win-win for everybody. Parts of white privilege don’t have to do with money. Just because we’re old white guys, there is a lot of dimensions to that. What I am hearing is you have evened the playing field in that people are people.</p> <p>I’d like to hear a couple of stories that you can share. We have some time here. Is there a story of impact? Either one of you can start. Is there a story that you’d like to share that warms your heart or really made a difference in somebody’s life?</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> Recently, we had two ladies come in. it was an off-time in our schedule. They were homeless. The way it hit me was it was impactful because of the pieces that came together. We are sitting in the office. We were able to draw the lady from the welcome center. She was in there. We were able to see them get their housing that evening. By establishing the housing, we were able to establish their food. She was able to get them bus passes. All the pieces, we stood in the office, and we talked it all through. All the pieces in a matter of 15 minutes came together. We stood there, we all held hands together, prayed together. We said, “Wouldn’t it be something if six months from now, we talked about, Remember when we all gathered here and figured out all the pieces?”</p> <p>In two weeks, they came in and both had jobs. It was powerful for them to come in and share and for us to remember all the different resources aligned at that moment. It’s a powerful image of us remembering to draw the resources. You have to keep a pool of everybody together. They wanted me to understand all of our resources there and make sure what’s happening and get everybody everything they need and understand that the other partners in our mission are in as well. We have come to find out they are in as well, and they were actually doing some things that I hadn’t even realized.</p> <p>The counseling, I sat with one of them and said, “I really want to figure out what we can do together.” They’re like, “Did you not realize Steve has been sending people up for a long time?” I’m like, “I did not realize.” Steve is the face you see first when you come into the office. Steve has been directing people to the resources they needed.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> There are so many stories that happen all the time. We had a guy come in the office, and we had been getting money from somebody that gave us $100 a month for a long time. We didn’t know who it really was. One day, this guy comes through the door and says he didn’t have a car or anything. He rode the bus. “One month, I didn’t have the money to give you, and I got on the bus. Somebody got on with a bag of groceries, and I said they need it more than me.” He came back and gave us that $100. That guy has since come back numerous times, and he had Gordy go with him to the bank. The bank is sending us a check for $100 every month from his account. He had money when he first came to Lynchburg, and he has donated most of it. He has enough just to live. He really has the heart to help people. You look at him, and he has a long beard, long hair, but he has a heart. You never underestimate people. Don’t judge a book by its cover.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a remarkable story. What do you think, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think that’s great. That’s probably typical of the work you’re doing there. It’s all about people. As you bring people in, they come through the front door, and it’s almost like having them slide into your funnel as it were. When I worked for a tribe, people walked through the door. My programs were about jobs and business, but I was familiar with all of the other programs around me within the tribe.</p> <p>When somebody walked into my office, they could start anywhere in that office, and they would be walked around from one end to the other, or across the street to the health clinic. When they walked in, they left with what they needed. Nobody took time to say, “This is not quite my job.” They would take the time. As a program director, we take time to walk people from one office to the other and make sure they are getting what they need before we hand them off. It’s a team effort. I looked at it as I worked for the community. I had a boss, I had the tribal chief and the tribal council, but I worked for the community. I am on display with everybody I serve.</p> <p>It is important for them to have satisfaction. It is important for people writing the checks to be satisfied. It is important to have good relations with the community. All of that is important. Everybody has to feel like they are winning here. I commend you for setting up that type of environment. Asking people what they like and why they serve is critical because once you find out what it is they like, you can do more of it.</p> <p>Even if they have to do a certain number of hours, they can do those hours with any nonprofit in Lynchburg, but they choose you. That is because of what you have been doing. That is your work on the culture. Find out a little bit more. I am in the frame of mind you can never ask too many questions to find out what makes people tick and to be there and to be that solution and have that heart of service that people need.</p> <p>As we are coming up on this holiday, this is a great time to remember a lot of these things we are grateful for. Are you going to see some people over the next few days? I know the holiday is coming. There are a lot of meals to be served. What is on the agenda for the rest of this week? And Giving Tuesday is coming up. What is on the agenda? What do folks need to know so they can help support the work you’re doing because you serve a lot of people in need there?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are recording this prior to Thanksgiving in 2017, to put in context for people listening to the podcast. We are approaching a holiday where a lot of us eat a lot of food and celebrate with family that other people don’t have that option. What I have learned is when you are down and out, the society doesn’t help you most of the time. You guys are giving a hand up. This is so encouraging. To relay Russ’s question, what particular reflection do you have this season of the year? How do you interact with people that is different? Or is it different?</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> I don’t see it as different.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A lot of places shut down. It’s a trick question.</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> I don’t understand the question, haha.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A lot of places shut down, Russell. Oh, it’s a holiday. We are going to take time off. A lot of them close today and open again on Monday.</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> We have our Wednesday night dinner. It will be a sit-down, serve you at the table.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Who comes to that?</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> Everybody in the community is allowed to come. It’s an open-door policy. We don’t even know who will be there yet. But the expectation—I reached out today to get more tables and chairs because we are expecting a huge crowd.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Just to go back to the lineage and history of this that we heard, this was a very active large Methodist church. It dwindled down in membership, and it was no longer viable. The building is owned by the Methodist church. It reverted back to the district office who had to maintain it. Through the wisdom of the district superintendent, they started using it. It had a rebirth. Not just one church worships there, but there are at least three. Plus you have 13 different organizations. The ministry has sorted- It’s not all under the umbrella of the church. They are still ministries, I think. Go ahead.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> It’s a building that originally started in 1857 on that site. It has grown until now, where it is 26,000 square feet. Then it died, and it’s now been reborn and rebirthed in even a greater sense. It’s how the people use the facilities.</p> <p>What makes this site so unique is that it is in the very heart of the very poorest area. Two blocks away is the Salvation Army and the Center of Hope. Across the street is the public health department. Another block is a recreation center. There are ten Methodist churches within a two-mile radius of this. There is probably another 30 or 40 storefront churches and others around this. We have now partnered with another church, where a bus picks up people in the neighborhood. We give out so much food. We average 30 pounds of food for an individual in the family. A family of four will get over 100 pounds of food. The biggest problem they have is getting it home. They can’t get on the bus with that much. They all have to get taxis and share. It is a tremendous undertaking to take 80,000 pounds and distribute it in over two days. This past week leading up to Thanksgiving, we had over 300 families that went through there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Say those numbers again. You just slid those in here. How many pounds of food?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> 80,000 pounds a month.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> 80,000 pounds of food per month. That other figure.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> This past week, we had the most families we’ve ever had of 320-something families on Thursday and Saturday, just those two days.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Over 300 families. That’s a lot of people.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Over 2,000 individuals.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. On Saturday?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Thursday and Saturday.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thursday and Saturday. That is just one week in this month. The impact of your work is pretty huge. We find that helping charities define their impact in quantifiable terms helps them attract regular, recurring funding. Talk a bit about how you sustain this, how you continue to make sure there is operational money, food in place, and you pay the light bill. How do you attract the funding? How many sources does it come from? I’m sure there is some in-kind, but there is some cash in there, too, isn’t there?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> We have been tracking the cash. It comes from different areas. We get from churches, we get from organizations, we get a lot from grants. A lot of individual donations. If you donate $10, it will feed a family of four for one month. That is based on the supply of 100 pounds of food. We are able to present it that way. A lot of people respond to that because they want to help. It’s individuals, churches, organizations, and grants.</p> <p>Our biggest supporter by far is Walmart. Over that 80,000 pounds of food, a third of that comes from Walmart. We pick up from three Walmarts, a Little Caesars, a Panera Bread every week. Walmart supplies are tremendous. 30-40,000 pounds a month comes from Walmart. They have given us grants. We have had a $55,000 grant to widen the entrance so we can get food in easier. Last week, we got another $55,000 grant from Walmart to buy a refrigerated truck so we can keep the produce fresh longer and pick it up and keep it fresh. They give community service grants as well. The people here are just so supportive of what we do. This community is very supportive.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We qualify for that by showing the impact of your work. I want to point out to any businesspeople listening to this. You heard three brands mentioned here: Walmart, Panera, and Little Caesars. Those companies support you. You don’t have to toot their horn about their brand. It’s good for business to do this. This is the Walmart Foundation. It is philanthropic, but you have also had support from local stores, which is another source of funding.</p> <p>What I heard you say is you have individual and company donations. You have in-kind donations, which is the food. You do get grants, so that’s three. We teach charities there is eight streams of revenue. We have money, which we call partner money. It comes from a rotary foundation or a church. They have designated funds for particular projects. It’s not really a grant or a donation, so it’s partnering. They have the funds and aggregate and take a bunch of churches or a groups like a rotary foundation. Each rotary has their own foundation. They can purpose special gifts. For charities to think about partnering with churches, synagogues, and other community organizations that want to give you a little bit of money, and you multiply it by 10 or 20 organizations, then you have some sustainable revenue to help you sustain your work. Are there other sources of revenue? I heard those.</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> I think you hit most of them there. You just never know when the Lord is going to bring something. Recently, last year, we got a big donation from an individual we have never heard of before, from another city. They just happened to have a family member that heard about it, and the foundation wrote us a check. We had to find out where it came from. You just never know how the Lord is going to provide and how the money is going to come. You never know.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, we are on the final wrap here. We are going to run over time. Any closing comments from you or a parting question?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I’d like to thank you for the fine work that you’re doing down there. You have some marvelous opportunities to leverage all the work you’re doing. I could say the same thing about the business. Find out what it is they like that makes them support you so you can just keep doing more of that and bring in more people through the door and keep talking to people. Those relationships are important. Keep working on culture because that is where it starts. This is what draws all of these gifts. When you have the right culture, you create the type of energy field, and the synergy to bring all this stuff about. Keep up what you’re doing. Blessings to you. Enjoy the holiday. I don’t know if you planned anything special for Giving Tuesday, but that is an opportunity to reach out and talk to people. Go on your Facebook feed and talk about the work you’re doing. Remind people that Giving Tuesday is an opportunity to support you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want you to think about a parting comment. There are people out there struggling who have not been able to get traction. What encouragement would you give them if they are thinking about starting or they have tried to start and haven’t got traction?</p> <p>As we are signing off here, which one of you wants to give a challenge, tip, or thought for somebody who wants to up their game?</p> <p><strong>Ray:</strong> Never give up. Just keep trying.</p> <p><strong>Gordy:</strong> Love the people you are doing it for.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love the people you are doing it for. And I heard with. You do all of that. I watched you in action. You can’t hide. Thank you so much for sharing. Russell, we are three guys having coffee in my kitchen. This is a kickback.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I am having coffee with you guys. It’s great. I noticed that I am drinking more coffee than you guys.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We don’t subscribe to whether it’s half full or half empty because we think it’s all refillable.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It is.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Blessings to everyone. Thank you for great stories on this podcast.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine History and Heritage</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofit-performance-360-magazine-history-and-heritage</link>
      <description>In it's third year of publication, Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine set' records for quality and inspiration. Dr. Todd Greer, editor shares his vision for starting this great resource and his vision for the future.
 Todd Greer holds a Ph.D. in organizational leadership with a major in human resource development from Regent University in Virginia Beach, Virginia; a Master of Science in ministerial leadership from Amridge University in Montgomery, Alabama; completed graduate work in communications studies at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan; and a Bachelor of Arts in communication studies from Defiance College in Defiance, Ohio. He has numerous publications to his credit, including journal articles and book chapters, and has presented at national conferences.
 He has served as lead instructor and board member with the Mobile Area Chamber of Commerce’s Innovation PortAL and instructor for the Chamber’s Young Entrepreneurs Academy for high school students. He is a board member for United Way of Southwest Alabama and Springboard to Success Inc. which, with the Downtown Mobile Alliance, operates the Urban Emporium retail incubator. He is an advisory board member with Veterans Recovery Resources.
 He was an instructor with University of South Alabama’s Minority Business Accelerator and an adjunct instructor at Spring Hill College.
 Previously, Greer was executive director of the SynerVision Leadership Foundation in Blacksburg, Virginia; minister of administration for Glen Allen Church of Christ in Glen Allen, Virginia; and head boys’ volleyball coach at Highlight Springs High School and assistant women’s volleyball coach at Virginia Union University, both in Richmond, Virginia.
  
 Interview Transcript
  
 Hugh: Greetings, and welcome to today’s session of The Nonprofit Exchange. Today, we have a very special guest. Russell, it’s the first time you’ve met Todd Greer. Dr. Greer was the one who started The Nonprofit Exchange. He is the founding and current editor of Nonprofit Performance Magazine. Todd, welcome.
 Todd: Thank you so much, Hugh. Great to be with you. Russell, I’ve heard such wonderful things about you, and it is great to at least virtually connect with you here.
 Russell: This is great. I’ve done my best to bring out your inner English teacher.
 Todd: It’s important. Gaps. Hugh mentioned I was the editor as we started out. Hugh is definitely the publisher. He is not the editor. It is good to have other folks around like you, Russell, to help keep him in check.
 Russell: It takes a village. That is why there is more than one of us there.
 Todd: There you go. Absolutely.
 Hugh: The vision for The Nonprofit Exchange is to interview experts in different fields and to bring really good leadership principles into charities and churches and synagogues, often from business leaders. Todd, in addition to having your Ph. D in organizational leadership, you are ordained as a pastor, and now you are a dean at the University of Mobile. Am I correct?
 Todd: That is correct. It has been an interesting transition. Hugh and I met in 2014. Hugh had this wonderful vision. SynerVision Leadership Foundation had the vision for a magazine and a community of nonprofit thought leaders that could help to build capacity and to help build and move things forward. I think it’s been a beautiful vision to see it come to light, to be something that I’ve been a part of and that has touched me deeply. Over the past two and a half years, I have been able to move down to Mobile from Virginia where he and I met, start a business down here, see that grow, and see a community of entrepreneurship really raise up. Now I have the opportunity to get in and engage with university students and to work to encourage them for the world that we’re inventing each day.
 Hugh: We’re glad to have the academic connection. Even though you have gone on to do some other great stuff, you’re still shaping editorial policy. What we have done with the magazine is separate the commercial part from the editorial part. What I do is I’m the champion, and I bring people into the funnel that we set up so brilliantly and around the editorial policy that you shaped so that we keep it really clean and really valid journalism for leadership. Thank you for that contribution to humankind and to SynerVision.
 You launched The Nonprofit Exchange, which we are doing at 2 pm on Tuesdays EST, and the podcast. We are hitting about 15,000 listeners on this particular podcast, and I have 10,000 on Orchestrating Success. We share some interviews in common, but they are helping people think through their skillset and organizational development and personal skills for developing their teams. Talk about three years ago in September that we launched that first John Maxwell edition. As you were shaping out the vision for this magazine, talk about your thought process. What was important about how you laid down the tracks, and what does that look like?
 Todd: One of the things that we consistently saw as we were looking at the nonprofit space is that there is good research, and then there is speakers. Then there are some books that are written. But there is a gap in the middle. What we wanted to do was come in and give nonprofit leaders, whether they are board members, staff, or executives, the opportunity to be able to engage with deeper thoughts around a holistic idea.
 What we started from that day forward is to create these themes within our magazine so that you could look at what we could consider an evergreen concept, something that is not based upon a specific time. It’s something that whether you are looking at it three years ago or today, the points are still valid, the theme is still important, it is something that drives home a needed opportunity in that space. We really worked to say, This is not an infomercial. This is not a chance to sell your book. This is not a chance to get yourself engaged in a speaking environment. This is really about bringing the best thought leadership from all over. We have worked with the athletic director of Virginia Tech. We have worked with bestselling authors. We have worked with professors from a number of top-notch schools across the country. We have worked with nonprofit facilitators. We have worked with people that do some speaking across the space. We have tried to engage and bring together for our listeners, for our audience, for our readers as many different engaging and unique perspectives that can help them move it forward. And the reality is we wanted a place that would challenge you. It’s one of those things that oftentimes it is very easy for us to become stagnant or to reach a plateau. If we are engaged with new people all the time, it helps.
 The cornerstone of each issue, there are a couple things we wanted to lay out. One is we wanted to have that big name at that cover that you can look at. John Maxwell was quite a name to be able to start with. You see others that have gone on to head the cover of the magazine. They have done an amazing job.
 We have wanted to make sure that each magazine touched on board relations. Each magazine touched on that sense of funds attraction. Each magazine talked about a couple things.
 The second cornerstone of the magazine to me was the Nonprofits that Work Section. It’s great to be able to think about these huge nonprofits that have great budgets and are extremely well-known. But how do we seed this idea, this theme exemplified in the life of a nonprofit that is probably going to be one you have never heard of before? We have been able to show these organizations all across the country who are doing exciting things around that theme. It’s been one of those pieces where I have learned so many new amazing nonprofits to be able to point to them later on.
 In fact, there was one that we worked with not that long ago, The Mission Continues. Hugh, I don’t know if you remember them from the work that we did with them, but it’s exciting right now because Aaron Scheinberg, who we worked with from there, he is running for Congress in West Virginia. He was somebody that we worked with not that long ago on that article. The Mission Continues was a veteran organization to work to continue to engage vets as they come back stateside to continue in that mission, working in the nonprofit community that surrounded them to engage in different missions. You get to see those kinds of things. It’s a beautiful thing to be able to engage and think about how all of the good ideas in nonprofit spaces don’t come from just nonprofits. They come from all over.
 Hugh: Good principles are good principles. Part of your inspiration was to have a different theme for each edition. One of the real fun editions I remember was one with Frances Hesselbein on the cover, who is in her late nineties and is expert on millennials. We did this whole issue on millennials. You had an interest in it, as did I. I’m a boomer, you’re a millennial. My article was about how we have similarities in core values and principles. You had this really good interview with Frances. Those are the top downloaded interviews on the Nonprofit Exchange podcast.
 Todd: Hugh, it’s a beautiful thing. Frances has now just turned 100 or 101. She is still kicking. I have seen a couple pieces from her recently. I was telling my daughter this last evening. My daughter is a Girl Scout. Frances was for about a decade and a half the CEO of the Girl Scouts of the USA. I was telling her, You have to understand the legacy of those that have gone. My daughter is a third grader. I was explaining to her that what Frances has done, and I use Frances a lot when I am speaking to students, to be able to understand what it looks like that she is engaging, to never stop learning, to always open doors for others in the sense of when you find trustworthy people who are passionate, give them an opportunity. Open the door for them. They may be young or different from you. Whatever it is, understand that everybody needs a door opened for them.
 Hugh: Absolutely. You have crafted our submissions page. When you go to Nonprofitperofrmance.org, it will forward the URL to SynerVision’s magazine page. Then there is a submissions page so people who want to contribute can go there and submit articles. There is very clear guidelines for submissions. The boardroom issue is being designed now, and it will be printed and distributed before the end of this year. Since people are listening to podcasts maybe at any time, it’s important that the material on this podcast and in the magazine is timeless. Solid principle.
 I am going to let Russ insert some questions. Russ, you have been a contributor for the magazine. As you look at the guidelines Todd has crafted, and specifically the identification of the theme- Russ is a very gifted writer. Russ is one of our WayFinders. I don’t know if you know that. He has gone through the certification. He is the first certified WayFinder, but we have some more in the chute. He is the guy forging the trail out there. Russ, how do the guidelines for writing and the description of the theme help you as a writer shape your contribution for that article?
 Russell: It’s important to have a clear message that is direct, to the point, that has a lot of punch, and that forces you to really put your best thoughts on paper without any extraneous information. Also, it forces you to up your game because when you are looking at some of the people like Dr. Jeff Magee for example that are sending material into this magazine, you don’t want to send a piece in there that is less than your best. People turn to this because they want to know what sort of things they can do to really enhance their performance. What are some of the best practices out there? What are some things that you can take away from this article and actually make it actionable?
 When I send a piece in, I ask myself what I want people to know, feel, and do. There should be one piece of actionable. If there is more than one, that’s better. Sometimes people can get confused. I am trying to either put a sequence of actions or sequence of things to look for or some sort of actionable piece that somebody can take and implement today. It’s important to be able to access, understand, and use that information.
 I was just surfing the Web today, and I came across a list from an organization called Giving Confidence, which points you toward nonprofit resources. It’s five podcasts nonprofit people should listen to. I opened that in anticipation of seeing The Nonprofit Exchange. We’re not there yet. We’re going to make that list. They talk about why people should listen to that. We’ll just keep doing what we’re doing. At some point, we’re going to end up on that list. I think that’s a worthy goal for us to shoot for.
 Hugh: I’m glad to know about that. Russell, you weren’t on the journey as we have gone forward. We are on our third year of the magazine, and it is hard to believe that we haven’t talked about it on the podcast. We have three years of podcasts. Lots of episodes out there. From an outside perspective catching up, what kind of questions do you want to pose to Todd about the history of the vision or the future?
 Russell: One of the things I am interested in seeing, because you are in that university space, I was curious as to how many younger people like yourself are moving in to the space because they want to do work that matters and how many are looking at programs that focus on nonprofits and philanthropy. Are you seeing an uptick in that?
 Todd: That is a great question. If you go back to the work that we did on millennials, that’s a huge issue. I don’t have the stats in front of me, but the vast majority of millennials say they want to be part of a company and work that makes an impact, and they will do business with a brand that makes an impact. We see a greater sense of social responsibility in this generation than any other generation in quite some time. There is still that struggle of a gap between what I want and what I’m willing to do. So we know that that’s not always something where that gap is closed. But we know that there is a desire.
 We do see it among our students. We happen to be at a university that is a private Christian institution. We have that faith basis in our students where they do want to go make impact. Across the community here in the Mobile area and across the state and the country, we are hearing more and more about programs like social entrepreneurship coming up. We are seeing people including the Beet Corp and other groups where they are saying they think there is a blurring of the line coming before us between the typical business and the typical nonprofit or charity. They do want to engage. They want to do something.
 The key right now that we are dealing with is how we make sure we are building the right capacity. I think that’s to your point. Historically, one of the things we have consistently seen is that the people who come in to the nonprofit space are people who are passionate about a cause. Passion is extremely important. Books upon books upon books have been written of the last decade or so just on passion and why you should pursue your passion. One of the things we are very mindful of—this has been part of the lynchpin for us for the beginning—passion without guidelines, passion without the right framework or strategy or understanding, can be very dangerous. We are asking questions here about how we cross the line between our school of business and our school of ministry, between our school of business and education, between our school of business and music. We are asking those questions. It’s already happening a lot in a lot of places, but you are going to see an increase in those.
 Folks like Businesses Mission is a concept that has really come up over the last handful of years. You have schools that are developing these centers. They are getting out there and serving. We have a great opportunity. I think it means a lot to our communities. I think going back to that millennial piece, and even touching into our current issue that will be coming out here in December about the boardroom. One thing that is important for our nonprofits is to make sure that they are engaging millennials and thinking about what it looks like to have diversity from an age perspective on their board as well. I think the younger generations are incredibly excited about the potential to make impact in the world.
 Russell: This is important. I have been engaged with my own church here in doing envisioning. We have been basing that on good to great for the social sectors. One of our local guys, Jim Collins, he is just up the road in Boulder. We started envisioning on that. One of the things that was said verbally was we really want to get young people involved. I dove into this process with him. I created a system to work with the faith-based community and created a coding system. What they say and what scores, there is a bit of a disconnect. This is something that is worth exploring further. We want younger people involved, but where are our actions leading us? There is an underlying- This wasn’t done to scale to any scientific scale or with the thought of statistical validity in it. There is a lot of open-ended stuff that is my own interpretation of it. It’s really interesting. I would love to share some of those codes with you, some of the coding idea with it.
 The other thing I wanted to say is we have a very strong Businesses Mission chapter. As a matter of fact, I am going tomorrow morning to the monthly meeting.
 Todd: That’s great. What you said is spot-on. There are two pieces that have really stuck out to me. I don’t know who said one, but I do know who said the other. Somebody said to me, “You will get what you celebrate.” Step back and think about it. In an organization, whether it’s a nonprofit or for-profit, you will get what you celebrate. You say you want something. If you don’t celebrate it when it happens, you’re not going to get it. That is the reinforcement. When you celebrate something, you are reinforcing that this is the culture we are working to establish.
 Then the other piece is Chris Argyris. Chris was a theory guy. I want to say he was at Harvard Business School. One piece he brought to light is there is espoused values or theories, and there are values in action. There is often a discrepancy. You think about how many organizations you have come through. You see those values on the wall. You looked at those values and thought, I don’t see those organizations.
 Hugh, you’re laughing because you have seen it countless times both in a religious environment and in other nonprofit organizations. It’s a hard thing. We set these ideals up, but we often don’t create a concrete way to establish those throughout the organization. Going back to the celebration, we often don’t celebrate when those things happen.
 Hugh: We forget that, don’t we? I see Russell taking some notes. Russell grabs some sound bites in these that are very astute.
 Russell, when you were talking about how you construct an article, that was really good information. What do you want people to do?
 Todd, back to you. As we were putting this together back in the old days, was that part of our thinking? What do we want people to take away? You have a better recollection of some of this than I do. Your focus was on this more. What were some of the takeaways, the impacts, the results that we wanted people to have because they had the magazine?
 Todd: There are a couple things that really stuck out in the early days we were doing it. Russell, I think you said it great: know, feel, and do. I want people to know, to feel, to do what I want. One of the pieces we said is leading in a nonprofit organization can be lonely. One of the things we wanted to establish is you’re not alone. You’re not alone in this journey. The things that you’re feeling are being felt all across the country by organizations big and small, by religious and those that are community-oriented in the nonprofit space. That was a big key for us because a lot of times when you are doing this on your own, who do you have to talk to? Can you share with your board these challenges? Can you share with your staff these challenges? Who can you talk to? A lot of times you are even afraid to share with other executives because you don’t want to feel like you’re the idiot in the room and you’re the one who is falling short when other people, at least what they present, seem so strong. We want to be very real. These are issues that we’re facing. That’s one of the things that comes up in each one of these themes. The acknowledgement that we are all facing them. We have challenges we are facing. We need a variety of voices to encourage us moving forward. That was a big piece.
 Next to that is the big piece of we wanted to say this is more than just from the seat of our pants kind of framework. This is about how we work to establish real strategy in our organizations. I think that’s one of the pieces that often gets lost. We do without thinking of the strategy. You go back to Stephen Covey’s four quadrants. In the nonprofit space, because we are dealing with not an abundance of resources and staff, we are just going so fast through the things that become urgent or the things that flare up in front of us. We take care of those things. We don’t step back to create that holistic strategy. The magazine and podcast were intended to encourage us to really step back and think about our strategy around these types of subjects.
 When we talk about leadership, what’s your leadership strategy? How do you build a leaderful organization? I am going to go back to Joe Raelin; he was one of our guests about two years ago from Northeastern University. How do you create leadership throughout your organization? We have talked about succession planning. How do you make sure that when you’re gone, the organization not only continues, but also thrives after you’re gone? That was a big piece to this.
 We want you to think about that sense of strategy. What’s going on? What’s working? What doesn’t work? When we talked with Frances and Joan, we looked at Peter Drucker’s five most important questions. A lot of what they do is they want you to make sure you are periodically having that review process. For some time in our country, the after-action review was a pretty typical thing in certain types of organizations. In nonprofits, we don’t do enough of that now. What worked, what didn’t, how would we change it for the next time, and how do we continue to grow that to make sure that it’s better fitting our mission and our customer moving forward? I think that’s a really key issue that’s often missing.
 Hugh, when you step back and think of all the organizations you’ve worked with, how many times do you see- In the for-profit world, we are talking about continuous improvement. Did you see a lot of that?
 Hugh: No.
 Todd: It’s something that I think we do. When the thing is done, we go, Whooo. That was long and that was tiring and I’m so glad that we can put that in a box for a year. The next year, we’ll pull that box out and regurgitate the same thing. We don’t think about, Hey, this is something. Heaven forbid we ask, Is this thing necessary anymore? Do I need to do this anymore? Are we just doing it because it’s what we’ve always done?
 Hugh: Absolutely. I was thinking about Caesar when he lost his wreath. He got off his throne and there it was. He said, “I have been resting on my laurels.” We want to get there and rest. We want to think we’ve made a plateau and we can stop. That’s a dangerous place to be. I find that continuous improvement is the jargon in corporate America. What we work on in SynerVision is continuing improvement and personal development. The journey is never over.
 Part of crafting the whole process and the whole design of the magazine is there is different categories. I forget what you call them, different categories. There is Member Engagement, Strategy, Point/Counterpoint, Executive Office, Grants Corner, Academic Desk, Design Corner, Nonprofits That Work, Board Relations, and Systems Thinking. Talk about why those categories. We have had something in those categories every single issue.
 Todd: Those are big ones. We wanted to be able to really narrow in. One of the things that I think is way too easy when you are starting a magazine or any kind of medium is to say, “I’ll accept this” and have it in this vague space. We wanted to give people a way to look forward to new things that were coming. Some of the pieces we referenced before that featured personality in the Nonprofit Works and the Board Relations—one of the things that we wanted to engage in this is Design Corner.
 One of the things in the Design Corner was always that idea that all too often, we tend to forget that things can look good and they can come together. In the church, for a long time, we lost our artists. We lost our designers and their input and their value. I think we are starting to see them come back again. The same thing is true in nonprofits. Just because you are a nonprofit doesn’t mean that your website has to be ugly or that your engagement with your members or your engagement with your community has to be lacking thought. We wanted to make sure that happens. What this does is it gives us a framework that when we are going out to seek contributors or contributors are coming to us, they know that this is the target I am seeking. We want to make sure that the people we have are experts. They really are bringing their game to the table, and it’s somebody that you can trust as you are hearing from them. I think that’s a really important piece for us.
 Hugh, I want to touch on as well: We talked a little bit about this issue that is getting ready to go to print. I know some people will listen to this at some time in the future. One thing we have coming up is social media. Obviously, we don’t live in a world where social media is a might. I might do social media. Whatever your organization is, social media is really important. Going back to strategy, you have to have a strategy for it.
 My wife and I were talking last night while watching an old episode of Madam Secretary. There is good and bad obviously about where we are in social media. Sometimes social media has created this perception of reality that is so far from it. It also has allowed people to get a platform that some people should never have. There are things that are going on where you think you never should have a platform. But nonprofits have a great opportunity to engage with their community, with their members, with their public through a very intentional strategy in social media. We want to make sure people are really conscious in thinking about it.
 Another tendency is that we look at whomever is the youngest person on our staff and we say, “You’re in charge of social media,” just like we say, “You’re in charge of graphic design,” just like we used to say, “You’re in charge of web design.” We can’t just throw it on the youngest person. They may be good, but you have to have a real consistent strategy for you organization. What does this social media strategy look like throughout? What are organizations that are doing it really well? We always want to find those people who are exemplars in our field.
 How does that impact the board? What’s the board’s role in that? Do you expect your board members to tweet out everything that is happening from your Twitter account? Do you expect them to engage? What does that look like? What are the expectations that you have? That one is coming up here soon.
 Following that is what Russell and I were hinting at: this future of the public/private partnership. We are going to continue to see growth in that area. The moniker “charity” is something that really has a bad connotation in our society now. What a charity does is it comes without strategy and without fiscal strategy and they come and say, “Please give to me so that I can give to others.” We love to give. But we are asking the ROI question. Just like we asked return on investment, we are asking what the return is on my impact, on my giving in the nonprofit sector. We really want to make sure that we are thinking strategically not only about where we are at right now, but also about what is coming down the pipeline. How do we make sure that we build the right partnerships with the corporate entities in our environment? If we care about this issue and you care about this issue, how can we collaborate to be able to make real impact in our community?
 Hugh: That’s a word that most of our charities don’t understand. Russell, we are rounding out to the final nine minutes of our interview. I am going to give you some more air time. You have some good questions. Is there one brewing for Todd?
 Russell: When it comes to social media, it was interesting. I was at the Socratic café at the University of Denver. Me and a few other guys get together on Saturday nights to do that. We had an ongoing discussion for eight weeks about isolation. Social media came up, and one of them pointed out, “You seem to be very comfortable. I haven’t seen anybody your age that is that comfortable with social media.” I don’t know everything, but we talked about being isolated even though people are on social media.
 There were a lot of things, pro or con, that were raised with social media. There is a balance to be struck, and it’s not totally evil or good. We want to be able to have these face-to-face interactions. There is nothing like face-to-face interaction. Social media is a tool. I think a lot of people view it as some sort of mysterious scale of people. After you turn 25, your brain oozes out of your ears, and you have no clue what to do. You have to find your children and your grandchildren. That is not the case.
 What sort of things have you heard people talk about when you’re talking with them about using social media to engage? Is there some resistance? Is there some people who think it’s the Holy Grail? What are you hearing people talk about? I think it’s a great thing to devote a whole issue to.
 Todd: Let me touch real quickly on something you said, and then I will come back to the questions themselves. You talked about isolation. That is a very big reality because it wasn’t until social media really crept up that we had this acronym FOMO: Fear of Missing Out. I think what it does is it drives us deeper into that sense of isolation because we don’t feel like we’re part of something, so we withdraw even more. Social media is amoral. It’s not moral or immoral. It’s amoral. It’s a tool. It’s a medium. It’s a channel. Yes. The question is how do we use this? That’s really important.
 Yours, what kind of feedback are we hearing? In smaller, more traditional nonprofits that typically are led by older executives, there is a fear. How do I do it? How do I engage? What kinds of media do I put out there? Do I do it for my personal social media channels? I might have Facebook. Do I post about the organization on my personal page? Do I do it in the groups? How do I build a following? All of those are big questions. It’s not an easy thing. There is not really a one-size-fits-all response to that.
 One thing that is important—and I know Hugh has done a masterful job in building that social media following. Hugh created a platform where he said I am going to focus on leadership. I am going to focus on how we empower people around leadership. When you see his messages, they are consistent. He is consistently posting about leadership and organizations, and he has built a following around a theme. In your nonprofit, that is a key thing for you. You have to own the space that you are in. You have to be mindful. It’s quick and easy to go chase the shiny object. We have talked about chasing money in nonprofits before. That is something that gets a lot of nonprofits off track. They go and chase money. The same thing is true with social media about chasing the shiny object. Not everybody has to have a perspective on every issue that comes up. When LeBron went to Miami, your nonprofit didn’t have to talk about LeBron going to Miami unless LeBron was the spokesperson for you in Cleveland. Then you might have something to say. It’s being mindful about putting your blinders on when you need to and knowing what you are good at and what you should be talking about. That is a big thing. Your following will come out when you are consistent in what you are talking about, when you have a definitive framing to your social media messaging.
 We live in a world where the social media algorithms are consistently changing. It used to be photos, and now it is video. Video is the hot piece. Having opportunities. Here we are live on Facebook right? That is a really important thing. Whether it’s video chats or small snippets, you want to be able to create bite-size visual media because it is attractive. It will engage more people. It is more likely to be seen by folks than I ate nachos for dinner last night. Nobody really cares, unless you have a great picture of your artisan nachos with your tofu on it or whatever. Then people might care. But I think that is to make sure that when you do post something, you’re harnessing all that is available to you.
 That is another piece. We will talk about it in the social media issue of the magazine. Something a lot of people don’t realize is there are very tangible ways for you and your nonprofit to be able to have good visuals. I know Hugh is an Apple guy. Apple made it very available for people to cut and edit simple but good, clean video. You have those more recently in a design perspective. I am blanking on the name here. Canva.com is an organization that came out. One of the pieces they wanted to promote was the idea that not everybody is a graphic designer and can afford a graphic designer, but everybody needs good design. They created a very simple free platform or premium platform where anybody can go in and create good design to be able to make sure that is consistent with their organization in the top-notch perspective.
 Hugh: That’s great. We are doing the wrap here. We have had a really good session, Todd. Thank you for watching this with your vision that is continuing. I hope we continue to execute it faithfully. As you are sitting in this academic seat, you are still editor at this magazine and shaping the editorial policy in a really helpful way. Are there some points you want to leave people with before we end this information session?
 I want to encourage people to go to nonprofitperformance.org and at least click on the virtual edition. 15,000 people read it every month. It’s a Flip file. Go in there and sign in. You can read the archive editions, and you can subscribe and buy issues. It’s very reasonable. If a nonprofit executive or pastor were to get issues for themselves and their whole board, then some people are on the same page, and it gives you something tangible to talk about, especially the board issue.
 Todd, as we are exiting and wrapping up on this interview, what are some things you want to leave people with?
 Todd: Hugh, when you go back to the initial vision, it’s the idea. How do we make impact in our communities? We really wanted to do that. When you talk about some of the download numbers for the magazine and the podcast and the video series, we started at zero. We started without subscribers. We started without followers. We started without any of that. If we can do it, you can, too. It’s really important to make sure you have a good message, that you have something people want to listen to, to follow, to read. But you can do it. You can make great impact in your community. You can do great things. You can build it if you want a platform. The key is that you just have to continue. What ends up happening is we see people in our community who start something and they’re not resilient enough when the challenges happen. Hugh, you know. Our core team that we started with, we have all gone through significant challenges, life changes, but the key is to continue through it and continue to work together. Truthfully, if you don’t like the people you’re working with, you probably won’t continue. We have had a great group of people, both our core team and folks who have come around us and great new faces like Russell who are able to invigorate and continue to move things forward. I think that’s really important for any organization. Make sure that you continue to invite new people in as you continue to hone what your message is. Have fun. Life is too short not to enjoy what you’re doing.
 Hugh: Good, wise words. Russell, you can do it. We have fun. Todd, thanks to you. Thank you so much.
 Todd: Thank you so much.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 19 Nov 2017 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/80234872-b329-11eb-9f0f-f39af7111a64/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with the Founding Editor, Dr. Todd Greer</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>In it's third year of publication, Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine set' records for quality and inspiration. Dr. Todd Greer, editor shares his vision for starting this great resource and his vision for the future.
 Todd Greer holds a Ph.D. in organizational leadership with a major in human resource development from Regent University in Virginia Beach, Virginia; a Master of Science in ministerial leadership from Amridge University in Montgomery, Alabama; completed graduate work in communications studies at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan; and a Bachelor of Arts in communication studies from Defiance College in Defiance, Ohio. He has numerous publications to his credit, including journal articles and book chapters, and has presented at national conferences.
 He has served as lead instructor and board member with the Mobile Area Chamber of Commerce’s Innovation PortAL and instructor for the Chamber’s Young Entrepreneurs Academy for high school students. He is a board member for United Way of Southwest Alabama and Springboard to Success Inc. which, with the Downtown Mobile Alliance, operates the Urban Emporium retail incubator. He is an advisory board member with Veterans Recovery Resources.
 He was an instructor with University of South Alabama’s Minority Business Accelerator and an adjunct instructor at Spring Hill College.
 Previously, Greer was executive director of the SynerVision Leadership Foundation in Blacksburg, Virginia; minister of administration for Glen Allen Church of Christ in Glen Allen, Virginia; and head boys’ volleyball coach at Highlight Springs High School and assistant women’s volleyball coach at Virginia Union University, both in Richmond, Virginia.
  
 Interview Transcript
  
 Hugh: Greetings, and welcome to today’s session of The Nonprofit Exchange. Today, we have a very special guest. Russell, it’s the first time you’ve met Todd Greer. Dr. Greer was the one who started The Nonprofit Exchange. He is the founding and current editor of Nonprofit Performance Magazine. Todd, welcome.
 Todd: Thank you so much, Hugh. Great to be with you. Russell, I’ve heard such wonderful things about you, and it is great to at least virtually connect with you here.
 Russell: This is great. I’ve done my best to bring out your inner English teacher.
 Todd: It’s important. Gaps. Hugh mentioned I was the editor as we started out. Hugh is definitely the publisher. He is not the editor. It is good to have other folks around like you, Russell, to help keep him in check.
 Russell: It takes a village. That is why there is more than one of us there.
 Todd: There you go. Absolutely.
 Hugh: The vision for The Nonprofit Exchange is to interview experts in different fields and to bring really good leadership principles into charities and churches and synagogues, often from business leaders. Todd, in addition to having your Ph. D in organizational leadership, you are ordained as a pastor, and now you are a dean at the University of Mobile. Am I correct?
 Todd: That is correct. It has been an interesting transition. Hugh and I met in 2014. Hugh had this wonderful vision. SynerVision Leadership Foundation had the vision for a magazine and a community of nonprofit thought leaders that could help to build capacity and to help build and move things forward. I think it’s been a beautiful vision to see it come to light, to be something that I’ve been a part of and that has touched me deeply. Over the past two and a half years, I have been able to move down to Mobile from Virginia where he and I met, start a business down here, see that grow, and see a community of entrepreneurship really raise up. Now I have the opportunity to get in and engage with university students and to work to encourage them for the world that we’re inventing each day.
 Hugh: We’re glad to have the academic connection. Even though you have gone on to do some other great stuff, you’re still shaping editorial policy. What we have done with the magazine is separate the commercial part from the editorial part. What I do is I’m the champion, and I bring people into the funnel that we set up so brilliantly and around the editorial policy that you shaped so that we keep it really clean and really valid journalism for leadership. Thank you for that contribution to humankind and to SynerVision.
 You launched The Nonprofit Exchange, which we are doing at 2 pm on Tuesdays EST, and the podcast. We are hitting about 15,000 listeners on this particular podcast, and I have 10,000 on Orchestrating Success. We share some interviews in common, but they are helping people think through their skillset and organizational development and personal skills for developing their teams. Talk about three years ago in September that we launched that first John Maxwell edition. As you were shaping out the vision for this magazine, talk about your thought process. What was important about how you laid down the tracks, and what does that look like?
 Todd: One of the things that we consistently saw as we were looking at the nonprofit space is that there is good research, and then there is speakers. Then there are some books that are written. But there is a gap in the middle. What we wanted to do was come in and give nonprofit leaders, whether they are board members, staff, or executives, the opportunity to be able to engage with deeper thoughts around a holistic idea.
 What we started from that day forward is to create these themes within our magazine so that you could look at what we could consider an evergreen concept, something that is not based upon a specific time. It’s something that whether you are looking at it three years ago or today, the points are still valid, the theme is still important, it is something that drives home a needed opportunity in that space. We really worked to say, This is not an infomercial. This is not a chance to sell your book. This is not a chance to get yourself engaged in a speaking environment. This is really about bringing the best thought leadership from all over. We have worked with the athletic director of Virginia Tech. We have worked with bestselling authors. We have worked with professors from a number of top-notch schools across the country. We have worked with nonprofit facilitators. We have worked with people that do some speaking across the space. We have tried to engage and bring together for our listeners, for our audience, for our readers as many different engaging and unique perspectives that can help them move it forward. And the reality is we wanted a place that would challenge you. It’s one of those things that oftentimes it is very easy for us to become stagnant or to reach a plateau. If we are engaged with new people all the time, it helps.
 The cornerstone of each issue, there are a couple things we wanted to lay out. One is we wanted to have that big name at that cover that you can look at. John Maxwell was quite a name to be able to start with. You see others that have gone on to head the cover of the magazine. They have done an amazing job.
 We have wanted to make sure that each magazine touched on board relations. Each magazine touched on that sense of funds attraction. Each magazine talked about a couple things.
 The second cornerstone of the magazine to me was the Nonprofits that Work Section. It’s great to be able to think about these huge nonprofits that have great budgets and are extremely well-known. But how do we seed this idea, this theme exemplified in the life of a nonprofit that is probably going to be one you have never heard of before? We have been able to show these organizations all across the country who are doing exciting things around that theme. It’s been one of those pieces where I have learned so many new amazing nonprofits to be able to point to them later on.
 In fact, there was one that we worked with not that long ago, The Mission Continues. Hugh, I don’t know if you remember them from the work that we did with them, but it’s exciting right now because Aaron Scheinberg, who we worked with from there, he is running for Congress in West Virginia. He was somebody that we worked with not that long ago on that article. The Mission Continues was a veteran organization to work to continue to engage vets as they come back stateside to continue in that mission, working in the nonprofit community that surrounded them to engage in different missions. You get to see those kinds of things. It’s a beautiful thing to be able to engage and think about how all of the good ideas in nonprofit spaces don’t come from just nonprofits. They come from all over.
 Hugh: Good principles are good principles. Part of your inspiration was to have a different theme for each edition. One of the real fun editions I remember was one with Frances Hesselbein on the cover, who is in her late nineties and is expert on millennials. We did this whole issue on millennials. You had an interest in it, as did I. I’m a boomer, you’re a millennial. My article was about how we have similarities in core values and principles. You had this really good interview with Frances. Those are the top downloaded interviews on the Nonprofit Exchange podcast.
 Todd: Hugh, it’s a beautiful thing. Frances has now just turned 100 or 101. She is still kicking. I have seen a couple pieces from her recently. I was telling my daughter this last evening. My daughter is a Girl Scout. Frances was for about a decade and a half the CEO of the Girl Scouts of the USA. I was telling her, You have to understand the legacy of those that have gone. My daughter is a third grader. I was explaining to her that what Frances has done, and I use Frances a lot when I am speaking to students, to be able to understand what it looks like that she is engaging, to never stop learning, to always open doors for others in the sense of when you find trustworthy people who are passionate, give them an opportunity. Open the door for them. They may be young or different from you. Whatever it is, understand that everybody needs a door opened for them.
 Hugh: Absolutely. You have crafted our submissions page. When you go to Nonprofitperofrmance.org, it will forward the URL to SynerVision’s magazine page. Then there is a submissions page so people who want to contribute can go there and submit articles. There is very clear guidelines for submissions. The boardroom issue is being designed now, and it will be printed and distributed before the end of this year. Since people are listening to podcasts maybe at any time, it’s important that the material on this podcast and in the magazine is timeless. Solid principle.
 I am going to let Russ insert some questions. Russ, you have been a contributor for the magazine. As you look at the guidelines Todd has crafted, and specifically the identification of the theme- Russ is a very gifted writer. Russ is one of our WayFinders. I don’t know if you know that. He has gone through the certification. He is the first certified WayFinder, but we have some more in the chute. He is the guy forging the trail out there. Russ, how do the guidelines for writing and the description of the theme help you as a writer shape your contribution for that article?
 Russell: It’s important to have a clear message that is direct, to the point, that has a lot of punch, and that forces you to really put your best thoughts on paper without any extraneous information. Also, it forces you to up your game because when you are looking at some of the people like Dr. Jeff Magee for example that are sending material into this magazine, you don’t want to send a piece in there that is less than your best. People turn to this because they want to know what sort of things they can do to really enhance their performance. What are some of the best practices out there? What are some things that you can take away from this article and actually make it actionable?
 When I send a piece in, I ask myself what I want people to know, feel, and do. There should be one piece of actionable. If there is more than one, that’s better. Sometimes people can get confused. I am trying to either put a sequence of actions or sequence of things to look for or some sort of actionable piece that somebody can take and implement today. It’s important to be able to access, understand, and use that information.
 I was just surfing the Web today, and I came across a list from an organization called Giving Confidence, which points you toward nonprofit resources. It’s five podcasts nonprofit people should listen to. I opened that in anticipation of seeing The Nonprofit Exchange. We’re not there yet. We’re going to make that list. They talk about why people should listen to that. We’ll just keep doing what we’re doing. At some point, we’re going to end up on that list. I think that’s a worthy goal for us to shoot for.
 Hugh: I’m glad to know about that. Russell, you weren’t on the journey as we have gone forward. We are on our third year of the magazine, and it is hard to believe that we haven’t talked about it on the podcast. We have three years of podcasts. Lots of episodes out there. From an outside perspective catching up, what kind of questions do you want to pose to Todd about the history of the vision or the future?
 Russell: One of the things I am interested in seeing, because you are in that university space, I was curious as to how many younger people like yourself are moving in to the space because they want to do work that matters and how many are looking at programs that focus on nonprofits and philanthropy. Are you seeing an uptick in that?
 Todd: That is a great question. If you go back to the work that we did on millennials, that’s a huge issue. I don’t have the stats in front of me, but the vast majority of millennials say they want to be part of a company and work that makes an impact, and they will do business with a brand that makes an impact. We see a greater sense of social responsibility in this generation than any other generation in quite some time. There is still that struggle of a gap between what I want and what I’m willing to do. So we know that that’s not always something where that gap is closed. But we know that there is a desire.
 We do see it among our students. We happen to be at a university that is a private Christian institution. We have that faith basis in our students where they do want to go make impact. Across the community here in the Mobile area and across the state and the country, we are hearing more and more about programs like social entrepreneurship coming up. We are seeing people including the Beet Corp and other groups where they are saying they think there is a blurring of the line coming before us between the typical business and the typical nonprofit or charity. They do want to engage. They want to do something.
 The key right now that we are dealing with is how we make sure we are building the right capacity. I think that’s to your point. Historically, one of the things we have consistently seen is that the people who come in to the nonprofit space are people who are passionate about a cause. Passion is extremely important. Books upon books upon books have been written of the last decade or so just on passion and why you should pursue your passion. One of the things we are very mindful of—this has been part of the lynchpin for us for the beginning—passion without guidelines, passion without the right framework or strategy or understanding, can be very dangerous. We are asking questions here about how we cross the line between our school of business and our school of ministry, between our school of business and education, between our school of business and music. We are asking those questions. It’s already happening a lot in a lot of places, but you are going to see an increase in those.
 Folks like Businesses Mission is a concept that has really come up over the last handful of years. You have schools that are developing these centers. They are getting out there and serving. We have a great opportunity. I think it means a lot to our communities. I think going back to that millennial piece, and even touching into our current issue that will be coming out here in December about the boardroom. One thing that is important for our nonprofits is to make sure that they are engaging millennials and thinking about what it looks like to have diversity from an age perspective on their board as well. I think the younger generations are incredibly excited about the potential to make impact in the world.
 Russell: This is important. I have been engaged with my own church here in doing envisioning. We have been basing that on good to great for the social sectors. One of our local guys, Jim Collins, he is just up the road in Boulder. We started envisioning on that. One of the things that was said verbally was we really want to get young people involved. I dove into this process with him. I created a system to work with the faith-based community and created a coding system. What they say and what scores, there is a bit of a disconnect. This is something that is worth exploring further. We want younger people involved, but where are our actions leading us? There is an underlying- This wasn’t done to scale to any scientific scale or with the thought of statistical validity in it. There is a lot of open-ended stuff that is my own interpretation of it. It’s really interesting. I would love to share some of those codes with you, some of the coding idea with it.
 The other thing I wanted to say is we have a very strong Businesses Mission chapter. As a matter of fact, I am going tomorrow morning to the monthly meeting.
 Todd: That’s great. What you said is spot-on. There are two pieces that have really stuck out to me. I don’t know who said one, but I do know who said the other. Somebody said to me, “You will get what you celebrate.” Step back and think about it. In an organization, whether it’s a nonprofit or for-profit, you will get what you celebrate. You say you want something. If you don’t celebrate it when it happens, you’re not going to get it. That is the reinforcement. When you celebrate something, you are reinforcing that this is the culture we are working to establish.
 Then the other piece is Chris Argyris. Chris was a theory guy. I want to say he was at Harvard Business School. One piece he brought to light is there is espoused values or theories, and there are values in action. There is often a discrepancy. You think about how many organizations you have come through. You see those values on the wall. You looked at those values and thought, I don’t see those organizations.
 Hugh, you’re laughing because you have seen it countless times both in a religious environment and in other nonprofit organizations. It’s a hard thing. We set these ideals up, but we often don’t create a concrete way to establish those throughout the organization. Going back to the celebration, we often don’t celebrate when those things happen.
 Hugh: We forget that, don’t we? I see Russell taking some notes. Russell grabs some sound bites in these that are very astute.
 Russell, when you were talking about how you construct an article, that was really good information. What do you want people to do?
 Todd, back to you. As we were putting this together back in the old days, was that part of our thinking? What do we want people to take away? You have a better recollection of some of this than I do. Your focus was on this more. What were some of the takeaways, the impacts, the results that we wanted people to have because they had the magazine?
 Todd: There are a couple things that really stuck out in the early days we were doing it. Russell, I think you said it great: know, feel, and do. I want people to know, to feel, to do what I want. One of the pieces we said is leading in a nonprofit organization can be lonely. One of the things we wanted to establish is you’re not alone. You’re not alone in this journey. The things that you’re feeling are being felt all across the country by organizations big and small, by religious and those that are community-oriented in the nonprofit space. That was a big key for us because a lot of times when you are doing this on your own, who do you have to talk to? Can you share with your board these challenges? Can you share with your staff these challenges? Who can you talk to? A lot of times you are even afraid to share with other executives because you don’t want to feel like you’re the idiot in the room and you’re the one who is falling short when other people, at least what they present, seem so strong. We want to be very real. These are issues that we’re facing. That’s one of the things that comes up in each one of these themes. The acknowledgement that we are all facing them. We have challenges we are facing. We need a variety of voices to encourage us moving forward. That was a big piece.
 Next to that is the big piece of we wanted to say this is more than just from the seat of our pants kind of framework. This is about how we work to establish real strategy in our organizations. I think that’s one of the pieces that often gets lost. We do without thinking of the strategy. You go back to Stephen Covey’s four quadrants. In the nonprofit space, because we are dealing with not an abundance of resources and staff, we are just going so fast through the things that become urgent or the things that flare up in front of us. We take care of those things. We don’t step back to create that holistic strategy. The magazine and podcast were intended to encourage us to really step back and think about our strategy around these types of subjects.
 When we talk about leadership, what’s your leadership strategy? How do you build a leaderful organization? I am going to go back to Joe Raelin; he was one of our guests about two years ago from Northeastern University. How do you create leadership throughout your organization? We have talked about succession planning. How do you make sure that when you’re gone, the organization not only continues, but also thrives after you’re gone? That was a big piece to this.
 We want you to think about that sense of strategy. What’s going on? What’s working? What doesn’t work? When we talked with Frances and Joan, we looked at Peter Drucker’s five most important questions. A lot of what they do is they want you to make sure you are periodically having that review process. For some time in our country, the after-action review was a pretty typical thing in certain types of organizations. In nonprofits, we don’t do enough of that now. What worked, what didn’t, how would we change it for the next time, and how do we continue to grow that to make sure that it’s better fitting our mission and our customer moving forward? I think that’s a really key issue that’s often missing.
 Hugh, when you step back and think of all the organizations you’ve worked with, how many times do you see- In the for-profit world, we are talking about continuous improvement. Did you see a lot of that?
 Hugh: No.
 Todd: It’s something that I think we do. When the thing is done, we go, Whooo. That was long and that was tiring and I’m so glad that we can put that in a box for a year. The next year, we’ll pull that box out and regurgitate the same thing. We don’t think about, Hey, this is something. Heaven forbid we ask, Is this thing necessary anymore? Do I need to do this anymore? Are we just doing it because it’s what we’ve always done?
 Hugh: Absolutely. I was thinking about Caesar when he lost his wreath. He got off his throne and there it was. He said, “I have been resting on my laurels.” We want to get there and rest. We want to think we’ve made a plateau and we can stop. That’s a dangerous place to be. I find that continuous improvement is the jargon in corporate America. What we work on in SynerVision is continuing improvement and personal development. The journey is never over.
 Part of crafting the whole process and the whole design of the magazine is there is different categories. I forget what you call them, different categories. There is Member Engagement, Strategy, Point/Counterpoint, Executive Office, Grants Corner, Academic Desk, Design Corner, Nonprofits That Work, Board Relations, and Systems Thinking. Talk about why those categories. We have had something in those categories every single issue.
 Todd: Those are big ones. We wanted to be able to really narrow in. One of the things that I think is way too easy when you are starting a magazine or any kind of medium is to say, “I’ll accept this” and have it in this vague space. We wanted to give people a way to look forward to new things that were coming. Some of the pieces we referenced before that featured personality in the Nonprofit Works and the Board Relations—one of the things that we wanted to engage in this is Design Corner.
 One of the things in the Design Corner was always that idea that all too often, we tend to forget that things can look good and they can come together. In the church, for a long time, we lost our artists. We lost our designers and their input and their value. I think we are starting to see them come back again. The same thing is true in nonprofits. Just because you are a nonprofit doesn’t mean that your website has to be ugly or that your engagement with your members or your engagement with your community has to be lacking thought. We wanted to make sure that happens. What this does is it gives us a framework that when we are going out to seek contributors or contributors are coming to us, they know that this is the target I am seeking. We want to make sure that the people we have are experts. They really are bringing their game to the table, and it’s somebody that you can trust as you are hearing from them. I think that’s a really important piece for us.
 Hugh, I want to touch on as well: We talked a little bit about this issue that is getting ready to go to print. I know some people will listen to this at some time in the future. One thing we have coming up is social media. Obviously, we don’t live in a world where social media is a might. I might do social media. Whatever your organization is, social media is really important. Going back to strategy, you have to have a strategy for it.
 My wife and I were talking last night while watching an old episode of Madam Secretary. There is good and bad obviously about where we are in social media. Sometimes social media has created this perception of reality that is so far from it. It also has allowed people to get a platform that some people should never have. There are things that are going on where you think you never should have a platform. But nonprofits have a great opportunity to engage with their community, with their members, with their public through a very intentional strategy in social media. We want to make sure people are really conscious in thinking about it.
 Another tendency is that we look at whomever is the youngest person on our staff and we say, “You’re in charge of social media,” just like we say, “You’re in charge of graphic design,” just like we used to say, “You’re in charge of web design.” We can’t just throw it on the youngest person. They may be good, but you have to have a real consistent strategy for you organization. What does this social media strategy look like throughout? What are organizations that are doing it really well? We always want to find those people who are exemplars in our field.
 How does that impact the board? What’s the board’s role in that? Do you expect your board members to tweet out everything that is happening from your Twitter account? Do you expect them to engage? What does that look like? What are the expectations that you have? That one is coming up here soon.
 Following that is what Russell and I were hinting at: this future of the public/private partnership. We are going to continue to see growth in that area. The moniker “charity” is something that really has a bad connotation in our society now. What a charity does is it comes without strategy and without fiscal strategy and they come and say, “Please give to me so that I can give to others.” We love to give. But we are asking the ROI question. Just like we asked return on investment, we are asking what the return is on my impact, on my giving in the nonprofit sector. We really want to make sure that we are thinking strategically not only about where we are at right now, but also about what is coming down the pipeline. How do we make sure that we build the right partnerships with the corporate entities in our environment? If we care about this issue and you care about this issue, how can we collaborate to be able to make real impact in our community?
 Hugh: That’s a word that most of our charities don’t understand. Russell, we are rounding out to the final nine minutes of our interview. I am going to give you some more air time. You have some good questions. Is there one brewing for Todd?
 Russell: When it comes to social media, it was interesting. I was at the Socratic café at the University of Denver. Me and a few other guys get together on Saturday nights to do that. We had an ongoing discussion for eight weeks about isolation. Social media came up, and one of them pointed out, “You seem to be very comfortable. I haven’t seen anybody your age that is that comfortable with social media.” I don’t know everything, but we talked about being isolated even though people are on social media.
 There were a lot of things, pro or con, that were raised with social media. There is a balance to be struck, and it’s not totally evil or good. We want to be able to have these face-to-face interactions. There is nothing like face-to-face interaction. Social media is a tool. I think a lot of people view it as some sort of mysterious scale of people. After you turn 25, your brain oozes out of your ears, and you have no clue what to do. You have to find your children and your grandchildren. That is not the case.
 What sort of things have you heard people talk about when you’re talking with them about using social media to engage? Is there some resistance? Is there some people who think it’s the Holy Grail? What are you hearing people talk about? I think it’s a great thing to devote a whole issue to.
 Todd: Let me touch real quickly on something you said, and then I will come back to the questions themselves. You talked about isolation. That is a very big reality because it wasn’t until social media really crept up that we had this acronym FOMO: Fear of Missing Out. I think what it does is it drives us deeper into that sense of isolation because we don’t feel like we’re part of something, so we withdraw even more. Social media is amoral. It’s not moral or immoral. It’s amoral. It’s a tool. It’s a medium. It’s a channel. Yes. The question is how do we use this? That’s really important.
 Yours, what kind of feedback are we hearing? In smaller, more traditional nonprofits that typically are led by older executives, there is a fear. How do I do it? How do I engage? What kinds of media do I put out there? Do I do it for my personal social media channels? I might have Facebook. Do I post about the organization on my personal page? Do I do it in the groups? How do I build a following? All of those are big questions. It’s not an easy thing. There is not really a one-size-fits-all response to that.
 One thing that is important—and I know Hugh has done a masterful job in building that social media following. Hugh created a platform where he said I am going to focus on leadership. I am going to focus on how we empower people around leadership. When you see his messages, they are consistent. He is consistently posting about leadership and organizations, and he has built a following around a theme. In your nonprofit, that is a key thing for you. You have to own the space that you are in. You have to be mindful. It’s quick and easy to go chase the shiny object. We have talked about chasing money in nonprofits before. That is something that gets a lot of nonprofits off track. They go and chase money. The same thing is true with social media about chasing the shiny object. Not everybody has to have a perspective on every issue that comes up. When LeBron went to Miami, your nonprofit didn’t have to talk about LeBron going to Miami unless LeBron was the spokesperson for you in Cleveland. Then you might have something to say. It’s being mindful about putting your blinders on when you need to and knowing what you are good at and what you should be talking about. That is a big thing. Your following will come out when you are consistent in what you are talking about, when you have a definitive framing to your social media messaging.
 We live in a world where the social media algorithms are consistently changing. It used to be photos, and now it is video. Video is the hot piece. Having opportunities. Here we are live on Facebook right? That is a really important thing. Whether it’s video chats or small snippets, you want to be able to create bite-size visual media because it is attractive. It will engage more people. It is more likely to be seen by folks than I ate nachos for dinner last night. Nobody really cares, unless you have a great picture of your artisan nachos with your tofu on it or whatever. Then people might care. But I think that is to make sure that when you do post something, you’re harnessing all that is available to you.
 That is another piece. We will talk about it in the social media issue of the magazine. Something a lot of people don’t realize is there are very tangible ways for you and your nonprofit to be able to have good visuals. I know Hugh is an Apple guy. Apple made it very available for people to cut and edit simple but good, clean video. You have those more recently in a design perspective. I am blanking on the name here. Canva.com is an organization that came out. One of the pieces they wanted to promote was the idea that not everybody is a graphic designer and can afford a graphic designer, but everybody needs good design. They created a very simple free platform or premium platform where anybody can go in and create good design to be able to make sure that is consistent with their organization in the top-notch perspective.
 Hugh: That’s great. We are doing the wrap here. We have had a really good session, Todd. Thank you for watching this with your vision that is continuing. I hope we continue to execute it faithfully. As you are sitting in this academic seat, you are still editor at this magazine and shaping the editorial policy in a really helpful way. Are there some points you want to leave people with before we end this information session?
 I want to encourage people to go to nonprofitperformance.org and at least click on the virtual edition. 15,000 people read it every month. It’s a Flip file. Go in there and sign in. You can read the archive editions, and you can subscribe and buy issues. It’s very reasonable. If a nonprofit executive or pastor were to get issues for themselves and their whole board, then some people are on the same page, and it gives you something tangible to talk about, especially the board issue.
 Todd, as we are exiting and wrapping up on this interview, what are some things you want to leave people with?
 Todd: Hugh, when you go back to the initial vision, it’s the idea. How do we make impact in our communities? We really wanted to do that. When you talk about some of the download numbers for the magazine and the podcast and the video series, we started at zero. We started without subscribers. We started without followers. We started without any of that. If we can do it, you can, too. It’s really important to make sure you have a good message, that you have something people want to listen to, to follow, to read. But you can do it. You can make great impact in your community. You can do great things. You can build it if you want a platform. The key is that you just have to continue. What ends up happening is we see people in our community who start something and they’re not resilient enough when the challenges happen. Hugh, you know. Our core team that we started with, we have all gone through significant challenges, life changes, but the key is to continue through it and continue to work together. Truthfully, if you don’t like the people you’re working with, you probably won’t continue. We have had a great group of people, both our core team and folks who have come around us and great new faces like Russell who are able to invigorate and continue to move things forward. I think that’s really important for any organization. Make sure that you continue to invite new people in as you continue to hone what your message is. Have fun. Life is too short not to enjoy what you’re doing.
 Hugh: Good, wise words. Russell, you can do it. We have fun. Todd, thanks to you. Thank you so much.
 Todd: Thank you so much.
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        <![CDATA[<p>In it's third year of publication, Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine set' records for quality and inspiration. Dr. Todd Greer, editor shares his vision for starting this great resource and his vision for the future.</p> <p><strong>Todd Greer</strong> holds a Ph.D. in organizational leadership with a major in human resource development from Regent University in Virginia Beach, Virginia; a Master of Science in ministerial leadership from Amridge University in Montgomery, Alabama; completed graduate work in communications studies at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan; and a Bachelor of Arts in communication studies from Defiance College in Defiance, Ohio. He has numerous publications to his credit, including journal articles and book chapters, and has presented at national conferences.</p> <p>He has served as lead instructor and board member with the Mobile Area Chamber of Commerce’s Innovation PortAL and instructor for the Chamber’s Young Entrepreneurs Academy for high school students. He is a board member for United Way of Southwest Alabama and Springboard to Success Inc. which, with the Downtown Mobile Alliance, operates the Urban Emporium retail incubator. He is an advisory board member with Veterans Recovery Resources.</p> <p>He was an instructor with University of South Alabama’s Minority Business Accelerator and an adjunct instructor at Spring Hill College.</p> <p>Previously, Greer was executive director of the SynerVision Leadership Foundation in Blacksburg, Virginia; minister of administration for Glen Allen Church of Christ in Glen Allen, Virginia; and head boys’ volleyball coach at Highlight Springs High School and assistant women’s volleyball coach at Virginia Union University, both in Richmond, Virginia.</p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Greetings, and welcome to today’s session of The Nonprofit Exchange. Today, we have a very special guest. Russell, it’s the first time you’ve met Todd Greer. Dr. Greer was the one who started The Nonprofit Exchange. He is the founding and current editor of <em>Nonprofit Performance Magazine.</em> Todd, welcome.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Thank you so much, Hugh. Great to be with you. Russell, I’ve heard such wonderful things about you, and it is great to at least virtually connect with you here.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is great. I’ve done my best to bring out your inner English teacher.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> It’s important. Gaps. Hugh mentioned I was the editor as we started out. Hugh is definitely the publisher. He is not the editor. It is good to have other folks around like you, Russell, to help keep him in check.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It takes a village. That is why there is more than one of us there.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> There you go. Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The vision for The Nonprofit Exchange is to interview experts in different fields and to bring really good leadership principles into charities and churches and synagogues, often from business leaders. Todd, in addition to having your Ph. D in organizational leadership, you are ordained as a pastor, and now you are a dean at the University of Mobile. Am I correct?</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> That is correct. It has been an interesting transition. Hugh and I met in 2014. Hugh had this wonderful vision. SynerVision Leadership Foundation had the vision for a magazine and a community of nonprofit thought leaders that could help to build capacity and to help build and move things forward. I think it’s been a beautiful vision to see it come to light, to be something that I’ve been a part of and that has touched me deeply. Over the past two and a half years, I have been able to move down to Mobile from Virginia where he and I met, start a business down here, see that grow, and see a community of entrepreneurship really raise up. Now I have the opportunity to get in and engage with university students and to work to encourage them for the world that we’re inventing each day.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’re glad to have the academic connection. Even though you have gone on to do some other great stuff, you’re still shaping editorial policy. What we have done with the magazine is separate the commercial part from the editorial part. What I do is I’m the champion, and I bring people into the funnel that we set up so brilliantly and around the editorial policy that you shaped so that we keep it really clean and really valid journalism for leadership. Thank you for that contribution to humankind and to SynerVision.</p> <p>You launched The Nonprofit Exchange, which we are doing at 2 pm on Tuesdays EST, and the podcast. We are hitting about 15,000 listeners on this particular podcast, and I have 10,000 on Orchestrating Success. We share some interviews in common, but they are helping people think through their skillset and organizational development and personal skills for developing their teams. Talk about three years ago in September that we launched that first John Maxwell edition. As you were shaping out the vision for this magazine, talk about your thought process. What was important about how you laid down the tracks, and what does that look like?</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> One of the things that we consistently saw as we were looking at the nonprofit space is that there is good research, and then there is speakers. Then there are some books that are written. But there is a gap in the middle. What we wanted to do was come in and give nonprofit leaders, whether they are board members, staff, or executives, the opportunity to be able to engage with deeper thoughts around a holistic idea.</p> <p>What we started from that day forward is to create these themes within our magazine so that you could look at what we could consider an evergreen concept, something that is not based upon a specific time. It’s something that whether you are looking at it three years ago or today, the points are still valid, the theme is still important, it is something that drives home a needed opportunity in that space. We really worked to say, This is not an infomercial. This is not a chance to sell your book. This is not a chance to get yourself engaged in a speaking environment. This is really about bringing the best thought leadership from all over. We have worked with the athletic director of Virginia Tech. We have worked with bestselling authors. We have worked with professors from a number of top-notch schools across the country. We have worked with nonprofit facilitators. We have worked with people that do some speaking across the space. We have tried to engage and bring together for our listeners, for our audience, for our readers as many different engaging and unique perspectives that can help them move it forward. And the reality is we wanted a place that would challenge you. It’s one of those things that oftentimes it is very easy for us to become stagnant or to reach a plateau. If we are engaged with new people all the time, it helps.</p> <p>The cornerstone of each issue, there are a couple things we wanted to lay out. One is we wanted to have that big name at that cover that you can look at. John Maxwell was quite a name to be able to start with. You see others that have gone on to head the cover of the magazine. They have done an amazing job.</p> <p>We have wanted to make sure that each magazine touched on board relations. Each magazine touched on that sense of funds attraction. Each magazine talked about a couple things.</p> <p>The second cornerstone of the magazine to me was the Nonprofits that Work Section. It’s great to be able to think about these huge nonprofits that have great budgets and are extremely well-known. But how do we seed this idea, this theme exemplified in the life of a nonprofit that is probably going to be one you have never heard of before? We have been able to show these organizations all across the country who are doing exciting things around that theme. It’s been one of those pieces where I have learned so many new amazing nonprofits to be able to point to them later on.</p> <p>In fact, there was one that we worked with not that long ago, The Mission Continues. Hugh, I don’t know if you remember them from the work that we did with them, but it’s exciting right now because Aaron Scheinberg, who we worked with from there, he is running for Congress in West Virginia. He was somebody that we worked with not that long ago on that article. The Mission Continues was a veteran organization to work to continue to engage vets as they come back stateside to continue in that mission, working in the nonprofit community that surrounded them to engage in different missions. You get to see those kinds of things. It’s a beautiful thing to be able to engage and think about how all of the good ideas in nonprofit spaces don’t come from just nonprofits. They come from all over.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Good principles are good principles. Part of your inspiration was to have a different theme for each edition. One of the real fun editions I remember was one with Frances Hesselbein on the cover, who is in her late nineties and is expert on millennials. We did this whole issue on millennials. You had an interest in it, as did I. I’m a boomer, you’re a millennial. My article was about how we have similarities in core values and principles. You had this really good interview with Frances. Those are the top downloaded interviews on the Nonprofit Exchange podcast.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Hugh, it’s a beautiful thing. Frances has now just turned 100 or 101. She is still kicking. I have seen a couple pieces from her recently. I was telling my daughter this last evening. My daughter is a Girl Scout. Frances was for about a decade and a half the CEO of the Girl Scouts of the USA. I was telling her, You have to understand the legacy of those that have gone. My daughter is a third grader. I was explaining to her that what Frances has done, and I use Frances a lot when I am speaking to students, to be able to understand what it looks like that she is engaging, to never stop learning, to always open doors for others in the sense of when you find trustworthy people who are passionate, give them an opportunity. Open the door for them. They may be young or different from you. Whatever it is, understand that everybody needs a door opened for them.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. You have crafted our submissions page. When you go to Nonprofitperofrmance.org, it will forward the URL to SynerVision’s magazine page. Then there is a submissions page so people who want to contribute can go there and submit articles. There is very clear guidelines for submissions. The boardroom issue is being designed now, and it will be printed and distributed before the end of this year. Since people are listening to podcasts maybe at any time, it’s important that the material on this podcast and in the magazine is timeless. Solid principle.</p> <p>I am going to let Russ insert some questions. Russ, you have been a contributor for the magazine. As you look at the guidelines Todd has crafted, and specifically the identification of the theme- Russ is a very gifted writer. Russ is one of our WayFinders. I don’t know if you know that. He has gone through the certification. He is the first certified WayFinder, but we have some more in the chute. He is the guy forging the trail out there. Russ, how do the guidelines for writing and the description of the theme help you as a writer shape your contribution for that article?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s important to have a clear message that is direct, to the point, that has a lot of punch, and that forces you to really put your best thoughts on paper without any extraneous information. Also, it forces you to up your game because when you are looking at some of the people like Dr. Jeff Magee for example that are sending material into this magazine, you don’t want to send a piece in there that is less than your best. People turn to this because they want to know what sort of things they can do to really enhance their performance. What are some of the best practices out there? What are some things that you can take away from this article and actually make it actionable?</p> <p>When I send a piece in, I ask myself what I want people to know, feel, and do. There should be one piece of actionable. If there is more than one, that’s better. Sometimes people can get confused. I am trying to either put a sequence of actions or sequence of things to look for or some sort of actionable piece that somebody can take and implement today. It’s important to be able to access, understand, and use that information.</p> <p>I was just surfing the Web today, and I came across a list from an organization called Giving Confidence, which points you toward nonprofit resources. It’s five podcasts nonprofit people should listen to. I opened that in anticipation of seeing The Nonprofit Exchange. We’re not there yet. We’re going to make that list. They talk about why people should listen to that. We’ll just keep doing what we’re doing. At some point, we’re going to end up on that list. I think that’s a worthy goal for us to shoot for.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m glad to know about that. Russell, you weren’t on the journey as we have gone forward. We are on our third year of the magazine, and it is hard to believe that we haven’t talked about it on the podcast. We have three years of podcasts. Lots of episodes out there. From an outside perspective catching up, what kind of questions do you want to pose to Todd about the history of the vision or the future?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One of the things I am interested in seeing, because you are in that university space, I was curious as to how many younger people like yourself are moving in to the space because they want to do work that matters and how many are looking at programs that focus on nonprofits and philanthropy. Are you seeing an uptick in that?</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> That is a great question. If you go back to the work that we did on millennials, that’s a huge issue. I don’t have the stats in front of me, but the vast majority of millennials say they want to be part of a company and work that makes an impact, and they will do business with a brand that makes an impact. We see a greater sense of social responsibility in this generation than any other generation in quite some time. There is still that struggle of a gap between what I want and what I’m willing to do. So we know that that’s not always something where that gap is closed. But we know that there is a desire.</p> <p>We do see it among our students. We happen to be at a university that is a private Christian institution. We have that faith basis in our students where they do want to go make impact. Across the community here in the Mobile area and across the state and the country, we are hearing more and more about programs like social entrepreneurship coming up. We are seeing people including the Beet Corp and other groups where they are saying they think there is a blurring of the line coming before us between the typical business and the typical nonprofit or charity. They do want to engage. They want to do something.</p> <p>The key right now that we are dealing with is how we make sure we are building the right capacity. I think that’s to your point. Historically, one of the things we have consistently seen is that the people who come in to the nonprofit space are people who are passionate about a cause. Passion is extremely important. Books upon books upon books have been written of the last decade or so just on passion and why you should pursue your passion. One of the things we are very mindful of—this has been part of the lynchpin for us for the beginning—passion without guidelines, passion without the right framework or strategy or understanding, can be very dangerous. We are asking questions here about how we cross the line between our school of business and our school of ministry, between our school of business and education, between our school of business and music. We are asking those questions. It’s already happening a lot in a lot of places, but you are going to see an increase in those.</p> <p>Folks like Businesses Mission is a concept that has really come up over the last handful of years. You have schools that are developing these centers. They are getting out there and serving. We have a great opportunity. I think it means a lot to our communities. I think going back to that millennial piece, and even touching into our current issue that will be coming out here in December about the boardroom. One thing that is important for our nonprofits is to make sure that they are engaging millennials and thinking about what it looks like to have diversity from an age perspective on their board as well. I think the younger generations are incredibly excited about the potential to make impact in the world.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is important. I have been engaged with my own church here in doing envisioning. We have been basing that on good to great for the social sectors. One of our local guys, Jim Collins, he is just up the road in Boulder. We started envisioning on that. One of the things that was said verbally was we really want to get young people involved. I dove into this process with him. I created a system to work with the faith-based community and created a coding system. What they say and what scores, there is a bit of a disconnect. This is something that is worth exploring further. We want younger people involved, but where are our actions leading us? There is an underlying- This wasn’t done to scale to any scientific scale or with the thought of statistical validity in it. There is a lot of open-ended stuff that is my own interpretation of it. It’s really interesting. I would love to share some of those codes with you, some of the coding idea with it.</p> <p>The other thing I wanted to say is we have a very strong Businesses Mission chapter. As a matter of fact, I am going tomorrow morning to the monthly meeting.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> That’s great. What you said is spot-on. There are two pieces that have really stuck out to me. I don’t know who said one, but I do know who said the other. Somebody said to me, “You will get what you celebrate.” Step back and think about it. In an organization, whether it’s a nonprofit or for-profit, you will get what you celebrate. You say you want something. If you don’t celebrate it when it happens, you’re not going to get it. That is the reinforcement. When you celebrate something, you are reinforcing that this is the culture we are working to establish.</p> <p>Then the other piece is Chris Argyris. Chris was a theory guy. I want to say he was at Harvard Business School. One piece he brought to light is there is espoused values or theories, and there are values in action. There is often a discrepancy. You think about how many organizations you have come through. You see those values on the wall. You looked at those values and thought, I don’t see those organizations.</p> <p>Hugh, you’re laughing because you have seen it countless times both in a religious environment and in other nonprofit organizations. It’s a hard thing. We set these ideals up, but we often don’t create a concrete way to establish those throughout the organization. Going back to the celebration, we often don’t celebrate when those things happen.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We forget that, don’t we? I see Russell taking some notes. Russell grabs some sound bites in these that are very astute.</p> <p>Russell, when you were talking about how you construct an article, that was really good information. What do you want people to do?</p> <p>Todd, back to you. As we were putting this together back in the old days, was that part of our thinking? What do we want people to take away? You have a better recollection of some of this than I do. Your focus was on this more. What were some of the takeaways, the impacts, the results that we wanted people to have because they had the magazine?</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> There are a couple things that really stuck out in the early days we were doing it. Russell, I think you said it great: know, feel, and do. I want people to know, to feel, to do what I want. One of the pieces we said is leading in a nonprofit organization can be lonely. One of the things we wanted to establish is you’re not alone. You’re not alone in this journey. The things that you’re feeling are being felt all across the country by organizations big and small, by religious and those that are community-oriented in the nonprofit space. That was a big key for us because a lot of times when you are doing this on your own, who do you have to talk to? Can you share with your board these challenges? Can you share with your staff these challenges? Who can you talk to? A lot of times you are even afraid to share with other executives because you don’t want to feel like you’re the idiot in the room and you’re the one who is falling short when other people, at least what they present, seem so strong. We want to be very real. These are issues that we’re facing. That’s one of the things that comes up in each one of these themes. The acknowledgement that we are all facing them. We have challenges we are facing. We need a variety of voices to encourage us moving forward. That was a big piece.</p> <p>Next to that is the big piece of we wanted to say this is more than just from the seat of our pants kind of framework. This is about how we work to establish real strategy in our organizations. I think that’s one of the pieces that often gets lost. We do without thinking of the strategy. You go back to Stephen Covey’s four quadrants. In the nonprofit space, because we are dealing with not an abundance of resources and staff, we are just going so fast through the things that become urgent or the things that flare up in front of us. We take care of those things. We don’t step back to create that holistic strategy. The magazine and podcast were intended to encourage us to really step back and think about our strategy around these types of subjects.</p> <p>When we talk about leadership, what’s your leadership strategy? How do you build a leaderful organization? I am going to go back to Joe Raelin; he was one of our guests about two years ago from Northeastern University. How do you create leadership throughout your organization? We have talked about succession planning. How do you make sure that when you’re gone, the organization not only continues, but also thrives after you’re gone? That was a big piece to this.</p> <p>We want you to think about that sense of strategy. What’s going on? What’s working? What doesn’t work? When we talked with Frances and Joan, we looked at Peter Drucker’s five most important questions. A lot of what they do is they want you to make sure you are periodically having that review process. For some time in our country, the after-action review was a pretty typical thing in certain types of organizations. In nonprofits, we don’t do enough of that now. What worked, what didn’t, how would we change it for the next time, and how do we continue to grow that to make sure that it’s better fitting our mission and our customer moving forward? I think that’s a really key issue that’s often missing.</p> <p>Hugh, when you step back and think of all the organizations you’ve worked with, how many times do you see- In the for-profit world, we are talking about continuous improvement. Did you see a lot of that?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> No.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> It’s something that I think we do. When the thing is done, we go, Whooo. That was long and that was tiring and I’m so glad that we can put that in a box for a year. The next year, we’ll pull that box out and regurgitate the same thing. We don’t think about, Hey, this is something. Heaven forbid we ask, Is this thing necessary anymore? Do I need to do this anymore? Are we just doing it because it’s what we’ve always done?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. I was thinking about Caesar when he lost his wreath. He got off his throne and there it was. He said, “I have been resting on my laurels.” We want to get there and rest. We want to think we’ve made a plateau and we can stop. That’s a dangerous place to be. I find that continuous improvement is the jargon in corporate America. What we work on in SynerVision is continuing improvement and personal development. The journey is never over.</p> <p>Part of crafting the whole process and the whole design of the magazine is there is different categories. I forget what you call them, different categories. There is Member Engagement, Strategy, Point/Counterpoint, Executive Office, Grants Corner, Academic Desk, Design Corner, Nonprofits That Work, Board Relations, and Systems Thinking. Talk about why those categories. We have had something in those categories every single issue.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Those are big ones. We wanted to be able to really narrow in. One of the things that I think is way too easy when you are starting a magazine or any kind of medium is to say, “I’ll accept this” and have it in this vague space. We wanted to give people a way to look forward to new things that were coming. Some of the pieces we referenced before that featured personality in the Nonprofit Works and the Board Relations—one of the things that we wanted to engage in this is Design Corner.</p> <p>One of the things in the Design Corner was always that idea that all too often, we tend to forget that things can look good and they can come together. In the church, for a long time, we lost our artists. We lost our designers and their input and their value. I think we are starting to see them come back again. The same thing is true in nonprofits. Just because you are a nonprofit doesn’t mean that your website has to be ugly or that your engagement with your members or your engagement with your community has to be lacking thought. We wanted to make sure that happens. What this does is it gives us a framework that when we are going out to seek contributors or contributors are coming to us, they know that this is the target I am seeking. We want to make sure that the people we have are experts. They really are bringing their game to the table, and it’s somebody that you can trust as you are hearing from them. I think that’s a really important piece for us.</p> <p>Hugh, I want to touch on as well: We talked a little bit about this issue that is getting ready to go to print. I know some people will listen to this at some time in the future. One thing we have coming up is social media. Obviously, we don’t live in a world where social media is a might. I might do social media. Whatever your organization is, social media is really important. Going back to strategy, you have to have a strategy for it.</p> <p>My wife and I were talking last night while watching an old episode of <em>Madam Secretary</em>. There is good and bad obviously about where we are in social media. Sometimes social media has created this perception of reality that is so far from it. It also has allowed people to get a platform that some people should never have. There are things that are going on where you think you never should have a platform. But nonprofits have a great opportunity to engage with their community, with their members, with their public through a very intentional strategy in social media. We want to make sure people are really conscious in thinking about it.</p> <p>Another tendency is that we look at whomever is the youngest person on our staff and we say, “You’re in charge of social media,” just like we say, “You’re in charge of graphic design,” just like we used to say, “You’re in charge of web design.” We can’t just throw it on the youngest person. They may be good, but you have to have a real consistent strategy for you organization. What does this social media strategy look like throughout? What are organizations that are doing it really well? We always want to find those people who are exemplars in our field.</p> <p>How does that impact the board? What’s the board’s role in that? Do you expect your board members to tweet out everything that is happening from your Twitter account? Do you expect them to engage? What does that look like? What are the expectations that you have? That one is coming up here soon.</p> <p>Following that is what Russell and I were hinting at: this future of the public/private partnership. We are going to continue to see growth in that area. The moniker “charity” is something that really has a bad connotation in our society now. What a charity does is it comes without strategy and without fiscal strategy and they come and say, “Please give to me so that I can give to others.” We love to give. But we are asking the ROI question. Just like we asked return on investment, we are asking what the return is on my impact, on my giving in the nonprofit sector. We really want to make sure that we are thinking strategically not only about where we are at right now, but also about what is coming down the pipeline. How do we make sure that we build the right partnerships with the corporate entities in our environment? If we care about this issue and you care about this issue, how can we collaborate to be able to make real impact in our community?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a word that most of our charities don’t understand. Russell, we are rounding out to the final nine minutes of our interview. I am going to give you some more air time. You have some good questions. Is there one brewing for Todd?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> When it comes to social media, it was interesting. I was at the Socratic café at the University of Denver. Me and a few other guys get together on Saturday nights to do that. We had an ongoing discussion for eight weeks about isolation. Social media came up, and one of them pointed out, “You seem to be very comfortable. I haven’t seen anybody your age that is that comfortable with social media.” I don’t know everything, but we talked about being isolated even though people are on social media.</p> <p>There were a lot of things, pro or con, that were raised with social media. There is a balance to be struck, and it’s not totally evil or good. We want to be able to have these face-to-face interactions. There is nothing like face-to-face interaction. Social media is a tool. I think a lot of people view it as some sort of mysterious scale of people. After you turn 25, your brain oozes out of your ears, and you have no clue what to do. You have to find your children and your grandchildren. That is not the case.</p> <p>What sort of things have you heard people talk about when you’re talking with them about using social media to engage? Is there some resistance? Is there some people who think it’s the Holy Grail? What are you hearing people talk about? I think it’s a great thing to devote a whole issue to.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Let me touch real quickly on something you said, and then I will come back to the questions themselves. You talked about isolation. That is a very big reality because it wasn’t until social media really crept up that we had this acronym FOMO: Fear of Missing Out. I think what it does is it drives us deeper into that sense of isolation because we don’t feel like we’re part of something, so we withdraw even more. Social media is amoral. It’s not moral or immoral. It’s amoral. It’s a tool. It’s a medium. It’s a channel. Yes. The question is how do we use this? That’s really important.</p> <p>Yours, what kind of feedback are we hearing? In smaller, more traditional nonprofits that typically are led by older executives, there is a fear. How do I do it? How do I engage? What kinds of media do I put out there? Do I do it for my personal social media channels? I might have Facebook. Do I post about the organization on my personal page? Do I do it in the groups? How do I build a following? All of those are big questions. It’s not an easy thing. There is not really a one-size-fits-all response to that.</p> <p>One thing that is important—and I know Hugh has done a masterful job in building that social media following. Hugh created a platform where he said I am going to focus on leadership. I am going to focus on how we empower people around leadership. When you see his messages, they are consistent. He is consistently posting about leadership and organizations, and he has built a following around a theme. In your nonprofit, that is a key thing for you. You have to own the space that you are in. You have to be mindful. It’s quick and easy to go chase the shiny object. We have talked about chasing money in nonprofits before. That is something that gets a lot of nonprofits off track. They go and chase money. The same thing is true with social media about chasing the shiny object. Not everybody has to have a perspective on every issue that comes up. When LeBron went to Miami, your nonprofit didn’t have to talk about LeBron going to Miami unless LeBron was the spokesperson for you in Cleveland. Then you might have something to say. It’s being mindful about putting your blinders on when you need to and knowing what you are good at and what you should be talking about. That is a big thing. Your following will come out when you are consistent in what you are talking about, when you have a definitive framing to your social media messaging.</p> <p>We live in a world where the social media algorithms are consistently changing. It used to be photos, and now it is video. Video is the hot piece. Having opportunities. Here we are live on Facebook right? That is a really important thing. Whether it’s video chats or small snippets, you want to be able to create bite-size visual media because it is attractive. It will engage more people. It is more likely to be seen by folks than I ate nachos for dinner last night. Nobody really cares, unless you have a great picture of your artisan nachos with your tofu on it or whatever. Then people might care. But I think that is to make sure that when you do post something, you’re harnessing all that is available to you.</p> <p>That is another piece. We will talk about it in the social media issue of the magazine. Something a lot of people don’t realize is there are very tangible ways for you and your nonprofit to be able to have good visuals. I know Hugh is an Apple guy. Apple made it very available for people to cut and edit simple but good, clean video. You have those more recently in a design perspective. I am blanking on the name here. Canva.com is an organization that came out. One of the pieces they wanted to promote was the idea that not everybody is a graphic designer and can afford a graphic designer, but everybody needs good design. They created a very simple free platform or premium platform where anybody can go in and create good design to be able to make sure that is consistent with their organization in the top-notch perspective.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s great. We are doing the wrap here. We have had a really good session, Todd. Thank you for watching this with your vision that is continuing. I hope we continue to execute it faithfully. As you are sitting in this academic seat, you are still editor at this magazine and shaping the editorial policy in a really helpful way. Are there some points you want to leave people with before we end this information session?</p> <p>I want to encourage people to go to nonprofitperformance.org and at least click on the virtual edition. 15,000 people read it every month. It’s a Flip file. Go in there and sign in. You can read the archive editions, and you can subscribe and buy issues. It’s very reasonable. If a nonprofit executive or pastor were to get issues for themselves and their whole board, then some people are on the same page, and it gives you something tangible to talk about, especially the board issue.</p> <p>Todd, as we are exiting and wrapping up on this interview, what are some things you want to leave people with?</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Hugh, when you go back to the initial vision, it’s the idea. How do we make impact in our communities? We really wanted to do that. When you talk about some of the download numbers for the magazine and the podcast and the video series, we started at zero. We started without subscribers. We started without followers. We started without any of that. If we can do it, you can, too. It’s really important to make sure you have a good message, that you have something people want to listen to, to follow, to read. But you can do it. You can make great impact in your community. You can do great things. You can build it if you want a platform. The key is that you just have to continue. What ends up happening is we see people in our community who start something and they’re not resilient enough when the challenges happen. Hugh, you know. Our core team that we started with, we have all gone through significant challenges, life changes, but the key is to continue through it and continue to work together. Truthfully, if you don’t like the people you’re working with, you probably won’t continue. We have had a great group of people, both our core team and folks who have come around us and great new faces like Russell who are able to invigorate and continue to move things forward. I think that’s really important for any organization. Make sure that you continue to invite new people in as you continue to hone what your message is. Have fun. Life is too short not to enjoy what you’re doing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Good, wise words. Russell, you can do it. We have fun. Todd, thanks to you. Thank you so much.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Thank you so much.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Website Branding with Joshua Adams</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/website-branding-with-joshua-adams</link>
      <description>Transcript of Interview with Joshua Adams
 Joshua Adams, the Head Honcho of Rock Paper Simple, lives and breathes entrepreneurship, branding, and marketing. Joshua started programming at 11 years old and began his freelance web career at 14. As a result of working with over 700 clients, he has become an expert in the fields of web development, digital marketing, and branding. Joshua founded Rock Paper Simple in 2011 with the vision of empowering businesses who are awesome at what they do by developing their brand and digital presence. He is never satisfied with the status quo and is always working hard to find the simplest, but most effective ways to create results for his clients and ventures. You will frequently hear him say “Ever Forward!”, as he believes the best option is always, always to move forward. He lives to empower talented people and dedicates his work in every endeavor to the glory of God. Amongst other accomplishments, he was named a finalist of LEAD Brevard’s “4 under 40” award in 2016 and again in 2017
 Rock Paper Simple http://rockpapersimple.com/hugh
 Hugh: Hey, it’s Hugh Ballou. I have a guest who is a fairly new friend, but a couple years. We have connected, and over the couple years, we have had significant conversations. This is Joshua Adams. I’ve seen him and his team do amazing work. I wanted to share some information today with all our listeners about branding. We want to do a website. We’ve given no thought to what it looks like, what representation it is for who we are and what we stand for. Joshua, hello.
 Joshua: Hello, how are you?
 Hugh: I’m awesome. Tell people a little bit about you. What’s your background that has brought you to this really good place of branding, marketing, and web design?
 Joshua: Absolutely. I actually got in the industry more on the web programming side of things. When I was 11 years old, my dad handed me a programming book and said, “Here, learn this.” I remember picking up the book and going, This is bigger than the Bible. At that time, the Bible was the biggest book on the planet in my mind, so this was a big deal. I dug into it, loved it, and dove into programming. My friends were playing games, and I was at home programming, clockin’ away, making games and applications. As I got older, I got into web and focused on that. When I was 14, I started freelancing. When I was 18, I started my own web design company in my parents’ garage. I had three desks all lined up and said, “I’m doing it.” It took off. I loved business. I loved entrepreneurism. It was natural.
 A couple years into doing that, I merged with a marketing agency. This is where my mindset shifted because I went from a programming mind, that engineering, tell me what to build and I’ll build it—as you call them, propeller-heads—to thinking more along the lines of, How can I build it? How can I make this cool? I realized that these marketing clients don’t care how cool this is. They want it to make the money. They want it to have results, to have a purpose. I learned what marketing was, what branding was, and that influenced me.
 A month into this new partnership, my partner decided to disappear for an extended period of time. I went, Great. Here I am, a programmer, running a marketing agency. During the day, I’d be on phone calls; they’d want printing, design, or logos. I’d go, “Absolutely, great,” and I’d hang up and go, Crap. Google is my friend. I searched online courses and had to learn this on the fly. Here we were, developing for big clients in the area, and I had to figure this out. That was trial by fire. A few years into that, I had to part ways with my partner for more reasons than just going our separate ways. I brought all that marketing and branding knowledge with me and said, I want to develop a company that takes all the complexities away, all these over-the-top things that we were doing in the previous agency. I want to simplify it and build websites that are marketing-focused. At the time, my passion was still websites. I loved branding and marketing, but I wanted to focus on websites.
 We launched Rock Paper Simple five years ago with the premise that we would build websites on purpose, bring all this knowledge, and build marketing-focused website platforms. That was our claim to fame. People knew us for that. You want a marketing website? Go to Rock Paper Simple. You want a technical product? Maybe go somewhere else. A marketing-focused one? That was what we did. We took off with that.
 The funny thing was we’d sit in those planning sessions because we were big on planning. We would be talking about the brand and logo, and I’d be advising them on brand messaging and how they should position themselves. They had never thought about the unique value proposition. Our website planning session would often become a branding planning session. People started asking, “Do you do branding?” “No, we don’t.” Finally we said we ought to create a product. I’m a big believer that if you can’t do it well, you really shouldn’t do it. We said, “We’ll offer branding when we’re ready.”
 We set off, and about eight months later, myself and my lead designer created a brand product. It was logo and brand colors and messaging, the whole deal. We launched that and won a Gold Addy for it that year. That was about three years ago. Fast forward to now, we’ve added digital marketing services to our repertoire. It’s no longer just me and a couple guys. It’s a team of ten here in Florida. We focus on helping brands and organizations figure out who they are, their identity, build a web platform, and then get known in the world. That’s a fast forward of where I’ve come from and what I do.
 Hugh: You do it really well. I call people propeller-heads because they are geeks that put up pretty pages, and they don’t do any of the stuff you’re talking about. There is a whole back side of a website that drives traffic.
 We’re talking to social entrepreneurs that run a church, synagogue, or charity. The organization is a cause-based nonprofit. Why is marketing important to those organizations?
 Joshua: Sometimes marketing can be a bad word in some of those cases, just like profit. They’re making profit. We use different words for types of organizations. I myself was a youth pastor for three years. I have been involved in ministry my entire life. I get it. There is a bad connotation to it. But in many ways, we have to be careful how we say this, but the way you run any organization is like a business. There is a balance sheet. There are margins. There is overhead. You have customers, kind of. I use that loosely. Ultimately, any organization, whether it’s nonprofit or ministry, etc., you have all of those things. You have to cater to those people.
 In the terms of a nonprofit or a ministry, you still have to get out to your audience. You have an audience; you are trying to attract them. Whether that is because you are trying to make a profit or make an impact, it doesn’t matter. What your goal is as an organization may be different, but you still have to get to people. Regardless of what it is you are trying to do, you have to reach people with your message. Sometimes that marketing is to get donors, to drive revenue, to be able to do bigger things. Sometimes for outreach, to be able to reach people who are in need. There is plenty of need for that, to reach people who need the organization, whether that be a ministry outreach or a support group or whether that may be. How you get that message out there is important.
 Taking that step back to what we want to focus on today is that branding. What is that message? If you don’t have a clear, concise, consistent message, people don’t know what it is you stand for. That’s very important, even more so with these organizations. What is it that you stand for? I want to get behind something. We are very involved with that here at Rock Paper Simple. We believe in giving back to our community. I believe it’s in my fate; I believe I am supposed to give back. We are supposed to be an impact and a light to our community. That is a responsibility I have even more so because of my position, where I’m at. We do have the resources to do it. When I am asked to contribute or be involved or be an emcee for this or come and lip-sync battle over here—yes, we did do that—I am looking at who is this organization, what do they stand for, what is their message, why should we be involved, why should we give. They have to have a clear message.
 We have sat down with organizations before and said, Hey, we just did a branding project for a nonprofit. We went through the whole process. I can admit that sometimes it can be a challenge to sit there with a board. It’s a little bit easier when it’s one-on-one with a stakeholder. If you have a board, it can be challenging to make sure you really break down what you stand for.
 Hugh: This is all a lead-up, an umbrella for this interview. All of this is setting the context, which you have done quite well. The whole context of this is about design. Underneath that design is all the stuff you’re talking about and principally, for this interview, we are talking about design, how we engage the board, not that they are going to help you draw the logo. We think brand is a logo. I want to move into this umbrella of design. Also, you do work with boards. That was a really good segue. I didn’t set you up for that. That was just a predestination theory. I think people misunderstand brand. If you are going to do a really good design, all that work you talked about manifests itself in a very relevant design.
 Let’s talk about brand. We hear these words “brand image,” “brand promise.” People think a logo is a brand. Give me a short definition of brand. We need to have this brand so you can do the design, correct?
 Joshua: Absolutely. Understanding like you said, most people think I need a brand, so it’s a logo and some colors, etc. While that is part of your brand, you have to understand that your logo is a representation of your brand. Your true brand is really the character and essence of your company, the personality of it, what it stands for. That is your brand, not necessarily that pretty logo sitting there. When you have a truly great logo, a truly great image representation of your brand, it comes from a good understanding of who you are.
 I was talking about this yesterday at Shannon Gronich’s event. We were talking about branding and the concepts of that. What happens is people don’t know themselves. We have to stop and say, “Know thyself.” I like to use that. Who are you? What are you trying to convey? I was joking about how a lot of people do their 60-second pitch, their elevator pitch. Here is who I am and what I do. A lot of people come up and go, “Hey, I’m John Smith, and I build websites,” and they walk away. Okay. But really, what makes you different? You have to convey that. Know yourself. Know the true part. A lot of businesses don’t. Not only do a lot of businesses not, but a lot of organizations don’t. They will say, “Yeah, we help feed the hungry.” Okay, but more than that. Who are you? Why do you do that? What sets you apart? What kind of an impact are you making on the world that is different than the other ones doing it? Why are you more trustworthy? Tell me more about you. Tug at my heartstrings. These are all things that people miss.
 We take a step back and say, “Okay, yeah, we want to make a logo, but let’s talk about what you stand for.” We call that “brand vision” here. What is the vision of your brand? Before the mission, before the promise, all that: what is the vision? We say within ten words or fewer, what is the highest calling of the company? What is that headline in the newspaper you are so proud of? Ten years from now, a headline says, “Rock Paper Simple: Empowering people who are awesome at what they do.” Boom, there’s a vision. Something we want to accomplish. What is that brand vision? What is that battle cry? That is my favorite terminology to use for that that you can rally around as an organization. That’s brand vision.
 When you can define that, then you step from there and say, “Okay, what is my mission statement?” which is the how. How do I accomplish that vision? What is my brand promise? Who am I making that promise to, and what is that promise, that unique thing I am promising to every customer, stakeholder, donor, whatever it is? What is that unique promise I am making?
 The reason it’s important to define this is this stuff can float up in the head of the leader(s) or even the organization’s members or employees or staff or team members or clergy, whatever. When it comes out on paper and becomes real, you can live this stuff out more. Helping pull that out, I’ll sit there with boards and pull this stuff out of them. Tell me more about this. Let’s build this promise. Once we have a unified promise and everybody can get around what they’re promising, now it’s so much easier to deliver on that brand. We work on things like brand personality, how it should sound, how it should look, how it should act when you’re out there. Core values and value statements. That is the essence of your brand.
 With all that stuff, I give you a logo that represents it. When somebody asks me to define a brand, that is 90% of your brand. Your logo is just the representation of that.
 Hugh: Then you build a website to manifest that brand image, right?
 Joshua: Exactly. Now not only are you matching color and logo and style, but now you are matching personality and belief and message. That is what is so important. Design is so much more than just some pretty pictures and colors. It’s a message. True design has a purpose. Why are you doing what you’re doing? I am a big believer in questioning just about anything. Why are we doing this? There is always an answer. I am a little over-the-top with it, but there has to be a purpose. The first board I ever sat on, I was sitting there at 19, 20, and I go, “I am 20 years younger than everybody else. Can somebody explain why we’re here? If there is no point here, I don’t want to be here.”
 Hugh: That’s a key point, my friend. Too many people on the boards, it’s a nodding board. They come home, they nod, and they go home and do nodding.
 Joshua: Then I nodded at you.
 Hugh: Everything we do, we should ask why we’re doing it.
 Joshua: Yes.
 Hugh: We’re not going to delve into it in this particular interview, but we have talked about a web experience versus a website. What I’m gaining here is you are getting a whole experience. There is an engagement. At the beginning of that, people have to understand why you’re there, what your purpose is. Too many charities complain they don’t get donations. Well, there is a reason behind that. This is that structure that is so important. Let me focus. We are looking at the design element.
 Let’s take all those components. We are talking to the executive director of the clergy. They have an idea for this. They want to engage their board and get them on board with this. When you work with a board and define a course, the more people you have, the harder it is to make finite decisions. There is a general education level before people can make decisions. Can you give us two or three points for a nonprofit executive for clergy, how will they approach the board and get them focused on the work that needs to happen so they are supporters and understand why this work needs to happen and their role in giving input to it? How do you work with a board?
 Joshua: I have worked with individuals and boards. I have done 13 people. I have 13 stakeholders in a room. I got to get them all to agree. That can be challenging. What you have to rally around is core goals, a core vision. What are you trying to accomplish today? Typically, that is unity, a strong message, focusing our scattered message, nobody knows who we are. That is normally the pain we are running into. We say, “All right, let’s rally around this.” For me, the easiest thing is to work on my first step, that vision. If I can get 13 people to agree on a vision, the rest of it is much easier. We can build out from there.
 Before that even, why is it important? I think a lot of times an executive director is that person who has to go to the board and say, “This is important to me because…” People don’t know who we are. People don’t know what we are. Our name doesn’t represent what we do.
 I’m dealing with one board that I sit on—I am co-chair of it—where they are saying our name doesn’t represent what we do currently. It represents what we did 20 years ago. We needed to talk about that. Is this even relevant currently? We talk about that. It’s understanding that you have to make sure you are speaking the right message to the right audience, that you’re differentiating yourself from the crowd, that you’re making an impact with your message, and that you’re being consistent. These are all things that are important to any organization with their brand.
 Hugh: Great. You have created a page for our listeners. Your brand is RockPaperSimple.com. There is a backslash with my name, Hugh. There is a page there with some special offers. Is there a place people can request a consultation with you?
 Joshua: Yes. Click on the tab “Schedule Free Consultation.” It pulls it up right there.
 Hugh: It would occur to me some leader listening to this says, “I have an idea I need to go in this direction. I want to brainstorm how to present to my board.” Is that a good reason for somebody to schedule a consultation?
 Joshua: Yes, I am working with someone now. We are more than happy to strategize how you present to a board, how you say, I’d like to explore this. You can even bring us along. We’ll tag along, show up at a meeting, have a chat real quick. No pressure. We won’t sell the board. If we are able to help, then great. If not, then we can move on from there, that’s fine.
 Oftentimes, getting the board to understand why this is important, everything you do is influenced through your brand. If people don’t trust your brand, they are not going to donate, they are not going to show up to your events. It’s the same with a business. If you go to a website and see a product you might be interested in and the website doesn’t look good and the logo looks like it was made in MS Paint, you see the Buy Now button, and you are going to think twice about clicking the Buy Now button. This is just regular business. You’re afraid you don’t know who they are.
 The same thing is true with nonprofits. If I go to your website and it looks like not great, then I am afraid to make that donation. It’s just the way the world works. We are trained that if it’s trustworthy, it’s consistent. That’s just how we are trained with our world that we are around. That’s why it’s important to have that brand cohesiveness. It doesn’t have to be the most amazing, wondrous design on the planet, but it does need to make sense. It does need to convey the right message. It does need to be consistent. Speak to the right audience. You choose your design, style, colors, and everything else based on what your audience wants, not necessarily your stakeholders’ favorite color.
 Hugh: That is a key point. What I am getting from this for you to approach the design piece of this at all is a whole lot of thinking that the leader with their teams, the board, the staff, whomever, need to go through so that they can give you intelligent answers for their questions.
 Joshua: When we work with somebody, we have a discovery session first, which is that pre-sales process so we really understand what’s going on. If we decide to work together, then we have a planning session. Prior to that, we even send them a questionnaire to learn more. We review it in that planning session. Then we get to work. Before I even start working with that board or company, we have gone through three steps of gathering information, understanding who they are and what they are. Then we wipe it clean and say, All right, tell me. What makes you guys different? What’s the vision? What sets you apart? We work on it right then and there. Sometimes in that first meeting, we knock out half the document. Sometimes in that first meeting, we have four or five choices for a brand vision, and we reschedule. Depends on the board honestly.
 Hugh: I would encourage people not to rush this part of it. We gotta have a website up next month so we are going to do something. That may do you more harm than good. There is such a thing as negative brand recognition, isn’t there?
 Joshua: Understanding that your brand says something, what does it say? Are you controlling that? Are you purposely driving that message? Your brand is going to say something. Whether it says we knew what we’re doing, we’re fun, we’re exciting, we do all this stuff, or it says, maybe we don’t know, maybe we’re not put together, maybe we’re not organized. It’s going to have a message. People are going to take that subconsciously without even knowing it. There are plenty of fantastic organizations out there with horrendous logos. They come across my desk. We donate to this. I look at it and push it aside. I look at this one over here. I know these guys. Later on, I find this other organization is fantastic, it just didn’t look good. I wasn’t writing a check to it because I didn’t trust it. I’m not saying that there is somehow a correlation to how good an organization you are. But it does impact perception.
 Perception is so key. Regardless of the truth, perception is the truth to most people, right? How often are we misjudged? I am just talking personally as people. We misjudge or we are misjudged all the time. This is another conversation. That is perception. You can’t just say, That’s not who I am and get mad about it. Unfortunately, to that person, perception is their truth. Until it’s corrected, that perception is what they are going to believe. The perception of your brand unfortunately is the truth to your audience until you change that. You take control of your brand and say, “I want my brand to say this.” Therefore, everything else will follow it.
 I want Rock Paper Simple’s brand to say that we empower people who are awesome at what they do. Whether that is they do, we empower them to grow and build. The rest of our statements go into how we do that. Our core values talk about how we go about doing what we do with the character of the company. Things like integrity, growth, and teamwork. These are all things in core to our team. One of our core values is community. That is why we do so much in the community. Why do we do that? it’s part of the brand essence. It’s part of the message we want to speak. I was speaking the other day and somebody made the comment, “Oh yeah, Rock Paper Simple does all kinds of stuff in the community.” The brand’s working. We are doing stuff. People know us as a company that does that. That’s important. Is my brand going to accidentally just communicate to people that we have integrity, that we are team players, that we are fun? No. I have to decide that’s what I want the brand to say and then push it out there. We are a very fun brand. One of our core values is legitimately fun. We do things that convey that.
 Hugh: You are a mushroom. You are a fun-gi. All right. This is helpful information. To do your design, there is a whole bunch of stuff underneath that: engaging the board in meaningful conversation around this. People can go to rockpapersimple.com/hugh and get some more information.
 Joshua: Absolutely.
 Hugh: There are some special offers. Joshua Adams, I know you have a very fine team behind you, but you are the leader and you have created this powerful vision for yourself. Thank you for helping us think about design and how we engage our board around that.
 Joshua: For sure. Glad to help.
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      <pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:09:13 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8040ff5c-b329-11eb-9f0f-737b45d17bd6/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Transcript of Interview with Joshua Adams Joshua Adams, the Head Honcho of Rock Paper Simple, lives and breathes entrepreneurship, branding, and marketing. Joshua started programming at 11 years old and began his freelance web career at 14. As a...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Transcript of Interview with Joshua Adams
 Joshua Adams, the Head Honcho of Rock Paper Simple, lives and breathes entrepreneurship, branding, and marketing. Joshua started programming at 11 years old and began his freelance web career at 14. As a result of working with over 700 clients, he has become an expert in the fields of web development, digital marketing, and branding. Joshua founded Rock Paper Simple in 2011 with the vision of empowering businesses who are awesome at what they do by developing their brand and digital presence. He is never satisfied with the status quo and is always working hard to find the simplest, but most effective ways to create results for his clients and ventures. You will frequently hear him say “Ever Forward!”, as he believes the best option is always, always to move forward. He lives to empower talented people and dedicates his work in every endeavor to the glory of God. Amongst other accomplishments, he was named a finalist of LEAD Brevard’s “4 under 40” award in 2016 and again in 2017
 Rock Paper Simple http://rockpapersimple.com/hugh
 Hugh: Hey, it’s Hugh Ballou. I have a guest who is a fairly new friend, but a couple years. We have connected, and over the couple years, we have had significant conversations. This is Joshua Adams. I’ve seen him and his team do amazing work. I wanted to share some information today with all our listeners about branding. We want to do a website. We’ve given no thought to what it looks like, what representation it is for who we are and what we stand for. Joshua, hello.
 Joshua: Hello, how are you?
 Hugh: I’m awesome. Tell people a little bit about you. What’s your background that has brought you to this really good place of branding, marketing, and web design?
 Joshua: Absolutely. I actually got in the industry more on the web programming side of things. When I was 11 years old, my dad handed me a programming book and said, “Here, learn this.” I remember picking up the book and going, This is bigger than the Bible. At that time, the Bible was the biggest book on the planet in my mind, so this was a big deal. I dug into it, loved it, and dove into programming. My friends were playing games, and I was at home programming, clockin’ away, making games and applications. As I got older, I got into web and focused on that. When I was 14, I started freelancing. When I was 18, I started my own web design company in my parents’ garage. I had three desks all lined up and said, “I’m doing it.” It took off. I loved business. I loved entrepreneurism. It was natural.
 A couple years into doing that, I merged with a marketing agency. This is where my mindset shifted because I went from a programming mind, that engineering, tell me what to build and I’ll build it—as you call them, propeller-heads—to thinking more along the lines of, How can I build it? How can I make this cool? I realized that these marketing clients don’t care how cool this is. They want it to make the money. They want it to have results, to have a purpose. I learned what marketing was, what branding was, and that influenced me.
 A month into this new partnership, my partner decided to disappear for an extended period of time. I went, Great. Here I am, a programmer, running a marketing agency. During the day, I’d be on phone calls; they’d want printing, design, or logos. I’d go, “Absolutely, great,” and I’d hang up and go, Crap. Google is my friend. I searched online courses and had to learn this on the fly. Here we were, developing for big clients in the area, and I had to figure this out. That was trial by fire. A few years into that, I had to part ways with my partner for more reasons than just going our separate ways. I brought all that marketing and branding knowledge with me and said, I want to develop a company that takes all the complexities away, all these over-the-top things that we were doing in the previous agency. I want to simplify it and build websites that are marketing-focused. At the time, my passion was still websites. I loved branding and marketing, but I wanted to focus on websites.
 We launched Rock Paper Simple five years ago with the premise that we would build websites on purpose, bring all this knowledge, and build marketing-focused website platforms. That was our claim to fame. People knew us for that. You want a marketing website? Go to Rock Paper Simple. You want a technical product? Maybe go somewhere else. A marketing-focused one? That was what we did. We took off with that.
 The funny thing was we’d sit in those planning sessions because we were big on planning. We would be talking about the brand and logo, and I’d be advising them on brand messaging and how they should position themselves. They had never thought about the unique value proposition. Our website planning session would often become a branding planning session. People started asking, “Do you do branding?” “No, we don’t.” Finally we said we ought to create a product. I’m a big believer that if you can’t do it well, you really shouldn’t do it. We said, “We’ll offer branding when we’re ready.”
 We set off, and about eight months later, myself and my lead designer created a brand product. It was logo and brand colors and messaging, the whole deal. We launched that and won a Gold Addy for it that year. That was about three years ago. Fast forward to now, we’ve added digital marketing services to our repertoire. It’s no longer just me and a couple guys. It’s a team of ten here in Florida. We focus on helping brands and organizations figure out who they are, their identity, build a web platform, and then get known in the world. That’s a fast forward of where I’ve come from and what I do.
 Hugh: You do it really well. I call people propeller-heads because they are geeks that put up pretty pages, and they don’t do any of the stuff you’re talking about. There is a whole back side of a website that drives traffic.
 We’re talking to social entrepreneurs that run a church, synagogue, or charity. The organization is a cause-based nonprofit. Why is marketing important to those organizations?
 Joshua: Sometimes marketing can be a bad word in some of those cases, just like profit. They’re making profit. We use different words for types of organizations. I myself was a youth pastor for three years. I have been involved in ministry my entire life. I get it. There is a bad connotation to it. But in many ways, we have to be careful how we say this, but the way you run any organization is like a business. There is a balance sheet. There are margins. There is overhead. You have customers, kind of. I use that loosely. Ultimately, any organization, whether it’s nonprofit or ministry, etc., you have all of those things. You have to cater to those people.
 In the terms of a nonprofit or a ministry, you still have to get out to your audience. You have an audience; you are trying to attract them. Whether that is because you are trying to make a profit or make an impact, it doesn’t matter. What your goal is as an organization may be different, but you still have to get to people. Regardless of what it is you are trying to do, you have to reach people with your message. Sometimes that marketing is to get donors, to drive revenue, to be able to do bigger things. Sometimes for outreach, to be able to reach people who are in need. There is plenty of need for that, to reach people who need the organization, whether that be a ministry outreach or a support group or whether that may be. How you get that message out there is important.
 Taking that step back to what we want to focus on today is that branding. What is that message? If you don’t have a clear, concise, consistent message, people don’t know what it is you stand for. That’s very important, even more so with these organizations. What is it that you stand for? I want to get behind something. We are very involved with that here at Rock Paper Simple. We believe in giving back to our community. I believe it’s in my fate; I believe I am supposed to give back. We are supposed to be an impact and a light to our community. That is a responsibility I have even more so because of my position, where I’m at. We do have the resources to do it. When I am asked to contribute or be involved or be an emcee for this or come and lip-sync battle over here—yes, we did do that—I am looking at who is this organization, what do they stand for, what is their message, why should we be involved, why should we give. They have to have a clear message.
 We have sat down with organizations before and said, Hey, we just did a branding project for a nonprofit. We went through the whole process. I can admit that sometimes it can be a challenge to sit there with a board. It’s a little bit easier when it’s one-on-one with a stakeholder. If you have a board, it can be challenging to make sure you really break down what you stand for.
 Hugh: This is all a lead-up, an umbrella for this interview. All of this is setting the context, which you have done quite well. The whole context of this is about design. Underneath that design is all the stuff you’re talking about and principally, for this interview, we are talking about design, how we engage the board, not that they are going to help you draw the logo. We think brand is a logo. I want to move into this umbrella of design. Also, you do work with boards. That was a really good segue. I didn’t set you up for that. That was just a predestination theory. I think people misunderstand brand. If you are going to do a really good design, all that work you talked about manifests itself in a very relevant design.
 Let’s talk about brand. We hear these words “brand image,” “brand promise.” People think a logo is a brand. Give me a short definition of brand. We need to have this brand so you can do the design, correct?
 Joshua: Absolutely. Understanding like you said, most people think I need a brand, so it’s a logo and some colors, etc. While that is part of your brand, you have to understand that your logo is a representation of your brand. Your true brand is really the character and essence of your company, the personality of it, what it stands for. That is your brand, not necessarily that pretty logo sitting there. When you have a truly great logo, a truly great image representation of your brand, it comes from a good understanding of who you are.
 I was talking about this yesterday at Shannon Gronich’s event. We were talking about branding and the concepts of that. What happens is people don’t know themselves. We have to stop and say, “Know thyself.” I like to use that. Who are you? What are you trying to convey? I was joking about how a lot of people do their 60-second pitch, their elevator pitch. Here is who I am and what I do. A lot of people come up and go, “Hey, I’m John Smith, and I build websites,” and they walk away. Okay. But really, what makes you different? You have to convey that. Know yourself. Know the true part. A lot of businesses don’t. Not only do a lot of businesses not, but a lot of organizations don’t. They will say, “Yeah, we help feed the hungry.” Okay, but more than that. Who are you? Why do you do that? What sets you apart? What kind of an impact are you making on the world that is different than the other ones doing it? Why are you more trustworthy? Tell me more about you. Tug at my heartstrings. These are all things that people miss.
 We take a step back and say, “Okay, yeah, we want to make a logo, but let’s talk about what you stand for.” We call that “brand vision” here. What is the vision of your brand? Before the mission, before the promise, all that: what is the vision? We say within ten words or fewer, what is the highest calling of the company? What is that headline in the newspaper you are so proud of? Ten years from now, a headline says, “Rock Paper Simple: Empowering people who are awesome at what they do.” Boom, there’s a vision. Something we want to accomplish. What is that brand vision? What is that battle cry? That is my favorite terminology to use for that that you can rally around as an organization. That’s brand vision.
 When you can define that, then you step from there and say, “Okay, what is my mission statement?” which is the how. How do I accomplish that vision? What is my brand promise? Who am I making that promise to, and what is that promise, that unique thing I am promising to every customer, stakeholder, donor, whatever it is? What is that unique promise I am making?
 The reason it’s important to define this is this stuff can float up in the head of the leader(s) or even the organization’s members or employees or staff or team members or clergy, whatever. When it comes out on paper and becomes real, you can live this stuff out more. Helping pull that out, I’ll sit there with boards and pull this stuff out of them. Tell me more about this. Let’s build this promise. Once we have a unified promise and everybody can get around what they’re promising, now it’s so much easier to deliver on that brand. We work on things like brand personality, how it should sound, how it should look, how it should act when you’re out there. Core values and value statements. That is the essence of your brand.
 With all that stuff, I give you a logo that represents it. When somebody asks me to define a brand, that is 90% of your brand. Your logo is just the representation of that.
 Hugh: Then you build a website to manifest that brand image, right?
 Joshua: Exactly. Now not only are you matching color and logo and style, but now you are matching personality and belief and message. That is what is so important. Design is so much more than just some pretty pictures and colors. It’s a message. True design has a purpose. Why are you doing what you’re doing? I am a big believer in questioning just about anything. Why are we doing this? There is always an answer. I am a little over-the-top with it, but there has to be a purpose. The first board I ever sat on, I was sitting there at 19, 20, and I go, “I am 20 years younger than everybody else. Can somebody explain why we’re here? If there is no point here, I don’t want to be here.”
 Hugh: That’s a key point, my friend. Too many people on the boards, it’s a nodding board. They come home, they nod, and they go home and do nodding.
 Joshua: Then I nodded at you.
 Hugh: Everything we do, we should ask why we’re doing it.
 Joshua: Yes.
 Hugh: We’re not going to delve into it in this particular interview, but we have talked about a web experience versus a website. What I’m gaining here is you are getting a whole experience. There is an engagement. At the beginning of that, people have to understand why you’re there, what your purpose is. Too many charities complain they don’t get donations. Well, there is a reason behind that. This is that structure that is so important. Let me focus. We are looking at the design element.
 Let’s take all those components. We are talking to the executive director of the clergy. They have an idea for this. They want to engage their board and get them on board with this. When you work with a board and define a course, the more people you have, the harder it is to make finite decisions. There is a general education level before people can make decisions. Can you give us two or three points for a nonprofit executive for clergy, how will they approach the board and get them focused on the work that needs to happen so they are supporters and understand why this work needs to happen and their role in giving input to it? How do you work with a board?
 Joshua: I have worked with individuals and boards. I have done 13 people. I have 13 stakeholders in a room. I got to get them all to agree. That can be challenging. What you have to rally around is core goals, a core vision. What are you trying to accomplish today? Typically, that is unity, a strong message, focusing our scattered message, nobody knows who we are. That is normally the pain we are running into. We say, “All right, let’s rally around this.” For me, the easiest thing is to work on my first step, that vision. If I can get 13 people to agree on a vision, the rest of it is much easier. We can build out from there.
 Before that even, why is it important? I think a lot of times an executive director is that person who has to go to the board and say, “This is important to me because…” People don’t know who we are. People don’t know what we are. Our name doesn’t represent what we do.
 I’m dealing with one board that I sit on—I am co-chair of it—where they are saying our name doesn’t represent what we do currently. It represents what we did 20 years ago. We needed to talk about that. Is this even relevant currently? We talk about that. It’s understanding that you have to make sure you are speaking the right message to the right audience, that you’re differentiating yourself from the crowd, that you’re making an impact with your message, and that you’re being consistent. These are all things that are important to any organization with their brand.
 Hugh: Great. You have created a page for our listeners. Your brand is RockPaperSimple.com. There is a backslash with my name, Hugh. There is a page there with some special offers. Is there a place people can request a consultation with you?
 Joshua: Yes. Click on the tab “Schedule Free Consultation.” It pulls it up right there.
 Hugh: It would occur to me some leader listening to this says, “I have an idea I need to go in this direction. I want to brainstorm how to present to my board.” Is that a good reason for somebody to schedule a consultation?
 Joshua: Yes, I am working with someone now. We are more than happy to strategize how you present to a board, how you say, I’d like to explore this. You can even bring us along. We’ll tag along, show up at a meeting, have a chat real quick. No pressure. We won’t sell the board. If we are able to help, then great. If not, then we can move on from there, that’s fine.
 Oftentimes, getting the board to understand why this is important, everything you do is influenced through your brand. If people don’t trust your brand, they are not going to donate, they are not going to show up to your events. It’s the same with a business. If you go to a website and see a product you might be interested in and the website doesn’t look good and the logo looks like it was made in MS Paint, you see the Buy Now button, and you are going to think twice about clicking the Buy Now button. This is just regular business. You’re afraid you don’t know who they are.
 The same thing is true with nonprofits. If I go to your website and it looks like not great, then I am afraid to make that donation. It’s just the way the world works. We are trained that if it’s trustworthy, it’s consistent. That’s just how we are trained with our world that we are around. That’s why it’s important to have that brand cohesiveness. It doesn’t have to be the most amazing, wondrous design on the planet, but it does need to make sense. It does need to convey the right message. It does need to be consistent. Speak to the right audience. You choose your design, style, colors, and everything else based on what your audience wants, not necessarily your stakeholders’ favorite color.
 Hugh: That is a key point. What I am getting from this for you to approach the design piece of this at all is a whole lot of thinking that the leader with their teams, the board, the staff, whomever, need to go through so that they can give you intelligent answers for their questions.
 Joshua: When we work with somebody, we have a discovery session first, which is that pre-sales process so we really understand what’s going on. If we decide to work together, then we have a planning session. Prior to that, we even send them a questionnaire to learn more. We review it in that planning session. Then we get to work. Before I even start working with that board or company, we have gone through three steps of gathering information, understanding who they are and what they are. Then we wipe it clean and say, All right, tell me. What makes you guys different? What’s the vision? What sets you apart? We work on it right then and there. Sometimes in that first meeting, we knock out half the document. Sometimes in that first meeting, we have four or five choices for a brand vision, and we reschedule. Depends on the board honestly.
 Hugh: I would encourage people not to rush this part of it. We gotta have a website up next month so we are going to do something. That may do you more harm than good. There is such a thing as negative brand recognition, isn’t there?
 Joshua: Understanding that your brand says something, what does it say? Are you controlling that? Are you purposely driving that message? Your brand is going to say something. Whether it says we knew what we’re doing, we’re fun, we’re exciting, we do all this stuff, or it says, maybe we don’t know, maybe we’re not put together, maybe we’re not organized. It’s going to have a message. People are going to take that subconsciously without even knowing it. There are plenty of fantastic organizations out there with horrendous logos. They come across my desk. We donate to this. I look at it and push it aside. I look at this one over here. I know these guys. Later on, I find this other organization is fantastic, it just didn’t look good. I wasn’t writing a check to it because I didn’t trust it. I’m not saying that there is somehow a correlation to how good an organization you are. But it does impact perception.
 Perception is so key. Regardless of the truth, perception is the truth to most people, right? How often are we misjudged? I am just talking personally as people. We misjudge or we are misjudged all the time. This is another conversation. That is perception. You can’t just say, That’s not who I am and get mad about it. Unfortunately, to that person, perception is their truth. Until it’s corrected, that perception is what they are going to believe. The perception of your brand unfortunately is the truth to your audience until you change that. You take control of your brand and say, “I want my brand to say this.” Therefore, everything else will follow it.
 I want Rock Paper Simple’s brand to say that we empower people who are awesome at what they do. Whether that is they do, we empower them to grow and build. The rest of our statements go into how we do that. Our core values talk about how we go about doing what we do with the character of the company. Things like integrity, growth, and teamwork. These are all things in core to our team. One of our core values is community. That is why we do so much in the community. Why do we do that? it’s part of the brand essence. It’s part of the message we want to speak. I was speaking the other day and somebody made the comment, “Oh yeah, Rock Paper Simple does all kinds of stuff in the community.” The brand’s working. We are doing stuff. People know us as a company that does that. That’s important. Is my brand going to accidentally just communicate to people that we have integrity, that we are team players, that we are fun? No. I have to decide that’s what I want the brand to say and then push it out there. We are a very fun brand. One of our core values is legitimately fun. We do things that convey that.
 Hugh: You are a mushroom. You are a fun-gi. All right. This is helpful information. To do your design, there is a whole bunch of stuff underneath that: engaging the board in meaningful conversation around this. People can go to rockpapersimple.com/hugh and get some more information.
 Joshua: Absolutely.
 Hugh: There are some special offers. Joshua Adams, I know you have a very fine team behind you, but you are the leader and you have created this powerful vision for yourself. Thank you for helping us think about design and how we engage our board around that.
 Joshua: For sure. Glad to help.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Transcript of Interview with Joshua Adams</strong></p> <p><strong>Joshua Adams,</strong> the Head Honcho of Rock Paper Simple, lives and breathes entrepreneurship, branding, and marketing. Joshua started programming at 11 years old and began his freelance web career at 14. As a result of working with over 700 clients, he has become an expert in the fields of web development, digital marketing, and branding. Joshua founded Rock Paper Simple in 2011 with the vision of empowering businesses who are awesome at what they do by developing their brand and digital presence. He is never satisfied with the status quo and is always working hard to find the simplest, but most effective ways to create results for his clients and ventures. You will frequently hear him say “Ever Forward!”, as he believes the best option is always, always to move forward. He lives to empower talented people and dedicates his work in every endeavor to the glory of God. Amongst other accomplishments, he was named a finalist of LEAD Brevard’s “4 under 40” award in 2016 and again in 2017</p> <p><strong>Rock Paper Simple <a href="http://rockpapersimple.com/hugh">http://rockpapersimple.com/hugh</a></strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Hey, it’s Hugh Ballou. I have a guest who is a fairly new friend, but a couple years. We have connected, and over the couple years, we have had significant conversations. This is Joshua Adams. I’ve seen him and his team do amazing work. I wanted to share some information today with all our listeners about branding. We want to do a website. We’ve given no thought to what it looks like, what representation it is for who we are and what we stand for. Joshua, hello.</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> Hello, how are you?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m awesome. Tell people a little bit about you. What’s your background that has brought you to this really good place of branding, marketing, and web design?</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> Absolutely. I actually got in the industry more on the web programming side of things. When I was 11 years old, my dad handed me a programming book and said, “Here, learn this.” I remember picking up the book and going, This is bigger than the Bible. At that time, the Bible was the biggest book on the planet in my mind, so this was a big deal. I dug into it, loved it, and dove into programming. My friends were playing games, and I was at home programming, clockin’ away, making games and applications. As I got older, I got into web and focused on that. When I was 14, I started freelancing. When I was 18, I started my own web design company in my parents’ garage. I had three desks all lined up and said, “I’m doing it.” It took off. I loved business. I loved entrepreneurism. It was natural.</p> <p>A couple years into doing that, I merged with a marketing agency. This is where my mindset shifted because I went from a programming mind, that engineering, tell me what to build and I’ll build it—as you call them, propeller-heads—to thinking more along the lines of, How can I build it? How can I make this cool? I realized that these marketing clients don’t care how cool this is. They want it to make the money. They want it to have results, to have a purpose. I learned what marketing was, what branding was, and that influenced me.</p> <p>A month into this new partnership, my partner decided to disappear for an extended period of time. I went, Great. Here I am, a programmer, running a marketing agency. During the day, I’d be on phone calls; they’d want printing, design, or logos. I’d go, “Absolutely, great,” and I’d hang up and go, Crap. Google is my friend. I searched online courses and had to learn this on the fly. Here we were, developing for big clients in the area, and I had to figure this out. That was trial by fire. A few years into that, I had to part ways with my partner for more reasons than just going our separate ways. I brought all that marketing and branding knowledge with me and said, I want to develop a company that takes all the complexities away, all these over-the-top things that we were doing in the previous agency. I want to simplify it and build websites that are marketing-focused. At the time, my passion was still websites. I loved branding and marketing, but I wanted to focus on websites.</p> <p>We launched Rock Paper Simple five years ago with the premise that we would build websites on purpose, bring all this knowledge, and build marketing-focused website platforms. That was our claim to fame. People knew us for that. You want a marketing website? Go to Rock Paper Simple. You want a technical product? Maybe go somewhere else. A marketing-focused one? That was what we did. We took off with that.</p> <p>The funny thing was we’d sit in those planning sessions because we were big on planning. We would be talking about the brand and logo, and I’d be advising them on brand messaging and how they should position themselves. They had never thought about the unique value proposition. Our website planning session would often become a branding planning session. People started asking, “Do you do branding?” “No, we don’t.” Finally we said we ought to create a product. I’m a big believer that if you can’t do it well, you really shouldn’t do it. We said, “We’ll offer branding when we’re ready.”</p> <p>We set off, and about eight months later, myself and my lead designer created a brand product. It was logo and brand colors and messaging, the whole deal. We launched that and won a Gold Addy for it that year. That was about three years ago. Fast forward to now, we’ve added digital marketing services to our repertoire. It’s no longer just me and a couple guys. It’s a team of ten here in Florida. We focus on helping brands and organizations figure out who they are, their identity, build a web platform, and then get known in the world. That’s a fast forward of where I’ve come from and what I do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You do it really well. I call people propeller-heads because they are geeks that put up pretty pages, and they don’t do any of the stuff you’re talking about. There is a whole back side of a website that drives traffic.</p> <p>We’re talking to social entrepreneurs that run a church, synagogue, or charity. The organization is a cause-based nonprofit. Why is marketing important to those organizations?</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> Sometimes marketing can be a bad word in some of those cases, just like profit. They’re making profit. We use different words for types of organizations. I myself was a youth pastor for three years. I have been involved in ministry my entire life. I get it. There is a bad connotation to it. But in many ways, we have to be careful how we say this, but the way you run any organization is like a business. There is a balance sheet. There are margins. There is overhead. You have customers, kind of. I use that loosely. Ultimately, any organization, whether it’s nonprofit or ministry, etc., you have all of those things. You have to cater to those people.</p> <p>In the terms of a nonprofit or a ministry, you still have to get out to your audience. You have an audience; you are trying to attract them. Whether that is because you are trying to make a profit or make an impact, it doesn’t matter. What your goal is as an organization may be different, but you still have to get to people. Regardless of what it is you are trying to do, you have to reach people with your message. Sometimes that marketing is to get donors, to drive revenue, to be able to do bigger things. Sometimes for outreach, to be able to reach people who are in need. There is plenty of need for that, to reach people who need the organization, whether that be a ministry outreach or a support group or whether that may be. How you get that message out there is important.</p> <p>Taking that step back to what we want to focus on today is that branding. What is that message? If you don’t have a clear, concise, consistent message, people don’t know what it is you stand for. That’s very important, even more so with these organizations. What is it that you stand for? I want to get behind something. We are very involved with that here at Rock Paper Simple. We believe in giving back to our community. I believe it’s in my fate; I believe I am supposed to give back. We are supposed to be an impact and a light to our community. That is a responsibility I have even more so because of my position, where I’m at. We do have the resources to do it. When I am asked to contribute or be involved or be an emcee for this or come and lip-sync battle over here—yes, we did do that—I am looking at who is this organization, what do they stand for, what is their message, why should we be involved, why should we give. They have to have a clear message.</p> <p>We have sat down with organizations before and said, Hey, we just did a branding project for a nonprofit. We went through the whole process. I can admit that sometimes it can be a challenge to sit there with a board. It’s a little bit easier when it’s one-on-one with a stakeholder. If you have a board, it can be challenging to make sure you really break down what you stand for.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is all a lead-up, an umbrella for this interview. All of this is setting the context, which you have done quite well. The whole context of this is about design. Underneath that design is all the stuff you’re talking about and principally, for this interview, we are talking about design, how we engage the board, not that they are going to help you draw the logo. We think brand is a logo. I want to move into this umbrella of design. Also, you do work with boards. That was a really good segue. I didn’t set you up for that. That was just a predestination theory. I think people misunderstand brand. If you are going to do a really good design, all that work you talked about manifests itself in a very relevant design.</p> <p>Let’s talk about brand. We hear these words “brand image,” “brand promise.” People think a logo is a brand. Give me a short definition of brand. We need to have this brand so you can do the design, correct?</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> Absolutely. Understanding like you said, most people think I need a brand, so it’s a logo and some colors, etc. While that is part of your brand, you have to understand that your logo is a representation of your brand. Your true brand is really the character and essence of your company, the personality of it, what it stands for. That is your brand, not necessarily that pretty logo sitting there. When you have a truly great logo, a truly great image representation of your brand, it comes from a good understanding of who you are.</p> <p>I was talking about this yesterday at Shannon Gronich’s event. We were talking about branding and the concepts of that. What happens is people don’t know themselves. We have to stop and say, “Know thyself.” I like to use that. Who are you? What are you trying to convey? I was joking about how a lot of people do their 60-second pitch, their elevator pitch. Here is who I am and what I do. A lot of people come up and go, “Hey, I’m John Smith, and I build websites,” and they walk away. Okay. But really, what makes you different? You have to convey that. Know yourself. Know the true part. A lot of businesses don’t. Not only do a lot of businesses not, but a lot of organizations don’t. They will say, “Yeah, we help feed the hungry.” Okay, but more than that. Who are you? Why do you do that? What sets you apart? What kind of an impact are you making on the world that is different than the other ones doing it? Why are you more trustworthy? Tell me more about you. Tug at my heartstrings. These are all things that people miss.</p> <p>We take a step back and say, “Okay, yeah, we want to make a logo, but let’s talk about what you stand for.” We call that “brand vision” here. What is the vision of your brand? Before the mission, before the promise, all that: what is the vision? We say within ten words or fewer, what is the highest calling of the company? What is that headline in the newspaper you are so proud of? Ten years from now, a headline says, “Rock Paper Simple: Empowering people who are awesome at what they do.” Boom, there’s a vision. Something we want to accomplish. What is that brand vision? What is that battle cry? That is my favorite terminology to use for that that you can rally around as an organization. That’s brand vision.</p> <p>When you can define that, then you step from there and say, “Okay, what is my mission statement?” which is the how. How do I accomplish that vision? What is my brand promise? Who am I making that promise to, and what is that promise, that unique thing I am promising to every customer, stakeholder, donor, whatever it is? What is that unique promise I am making?</p> <p>The reason it’s important to define this is this stuff can float up in the head of the leader(s) or even the organization’s members or employees or staff or team members or clergy, whatever. When it comes out on paper and becomes real, you can live this stuff out more. Helping pull that out, I’ll sit there with boards and pull this stuff out of them. Tell me more about this. Let’s build this promise. Once we have a unified promise and everybody can get around what they’re promising, now it’s so much easier to deliver on that brand. We work on things like brand personality, how it should sound, how it should look, how it should act when you’re out there. Core values and value statements. That is the essence of your brand.</p> <p>With all that stuff, I give you a logo that represents it. When somebody asks me to define a brand, that is 90% of your brand. Your logo is just the representation of that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Then you build a website to manifest that brand image, right?</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> Exactly. Now not only are you matching color and logo and style, but now you are matching personality and belief and message. That is what is so important. Design is so much more than just some pretty pictures and colors. It’s a message. True design has a purpose. Why are you doing what you’re doing? I am a big believer in questioning just about anything. Why are we doing this? There is always an answer. I am a little over-the-top with it, but there has to be a purpose. The first board I ever sat on, I was sitting there at 19, 20, and I go, “I am 20 years younger than everybody else. Can somebody explain why we’re here? If there is no point here, I don’t want to be here.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a key point, my friend. Too many people on the boards, it’s a nodding board. They come home, they nod, and they go home and do nodding.</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> Then I nodded at you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Everything we do, we should ask why we’re doing it.</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’re not going to delve into it in this particular interview, but we have talked about a web experience versus a website. What I’m gaining here is you are getting a whole experience. There is an engagement. At the beginning of that, people have to understand why you’re there, what your purpose is. Too many charities complain they don’t get donations. Well, there is a reason behind that. This is that structure that is so important. Let me focus. We are looking at the design element.</p> <p>Let’s take all those components. We are talking to the executive director of the clergy. They have an idea for this. They want to engage their board and get them on board with this. When you work with a board and define a course, the more people you have, the harder it is to make finite decisions. There is a general education level before people can make decisions. Can you give us two or three points for a nonprofit executive for clergy, how will they approach the board and get them focused on the work that needs to happen so they are supporters and understand why this work needs to happen and their role in giving input to it? How do you work with a board?</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> I have worked with individuals and boards. I have done 13 people. I have 13 stakeholders in a room. I got to get them all to agree. That can be challenging. What you have to rally around is core goals, a core vision. What are you trying to accomplish today? Typically, that is unity, a strong message, focusing our scattered message, nobody knows who we are. That is normally the pain we are running into. We say, “All right, let’s rally around this.” For me, the easiest thing is to work on my first step, that vision. If I can get 13 people to agree on a vision, the rest of it is much easier. We can build out from there.</p> <p>Before that even, why is it important? I think a lot of times an executive director is that person who has to go to the board and say, “This is important to me because…” People don’t know who we are. People don’t know what we are. Our name doesn’t represent what we do.</p> <p>I’m dealing with one board that I sit on—I am co-chair of it—where they are saying our name doesn’t represent what we do currently. It represents what we did 20 years ago. We needed to talk about that. Is this even relevant currently? We talk about that. It’s understanding that you have to make sure you are speaking the right message to the right audience, that you’re differentiating yourself from the crowd, that you’re making an impact with your message, and that you’re being consistent. These are all things that are important to any organization with their brand.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great. You have created a page for our listeners. Your brand is RockPaperSimple.com. There is a backslash with my name, Hugh. There is a page there with some special offers. Is there a place people can request a consultation with you?</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> Yes. Click on the tab “Schedule Free Consultation.” It pulls it up right there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It would occur to me some leader listening to this says, “I have an idea I need to go in this direction. I want to brainstorm how to present to my board.” Is that a good reason for somebody to schedule a consultation?</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> Yes, I am working with someone now. We are more than happy to strategize how you present to a board, how you say, I’d like to explore this. You can even bring us along. We’ll tag along, show up at a meeting, have a chat real quick. No pressure. We won’t sell the board. If we are able to help, then great. If not, then we can move on from there, that’s fine.</p> <p>Oftentimes, getting the board to understand why this is important, everything you do is influenced through your brand. If people don’t trust your brand, they are not going to donate, they are not going to show up to your events. It’s the same with a business. If you go to a website and see a product you might be interested in and the website doesn’t look good and the logo looks like it was made in MS Paint, you see the Buy Now button, and you are going to think twice about clicking the Buy Now button. This is just regular business. You’re afraid you don’t know who they are.</p> <p>The same thing is true with nonprofits. If I go to your website and it looks like not great, then I am afraid to make that donation. It’s just the way the world works. We are trained that if it’s trustworthy, it’s consistent. That’s just how we are trained with our world that we are around. That’s why it’s important to have that brand cohesiveness. It doesn’t have to be the most amazing, wondrous design on the planet, but it does need to make sense. It does need to convey the right message. It does need to be consistent. Speak to the right audience. You choose your design, style, colors, and everything else based on what your audience wants, not necessarily your stakeholders’ favorite color.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is a key point. What I am getting from this for you to approach the design piece of this at all is a whole lot of thinking that the leader with their teams, the board, the staff, whomever, need to go through so that they can give you intelligent answers for their questions.</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> When we work with somebody, we have a discovery session first, which is that pre-sales process so we really understand what’s going on. If we decide to work together, then we have a planning session. Prior to that, we even send them a questionnaire to learn more. We review it in that planning session. Then we get to work. Before I even start working with that board or company, we have gone through three steps of gathering information, understanding who they are and what they are. Then we wipe it clean and say, All right, tell me. What makes you guys different? What’s the vision? What sets you apart? We work on it right then and there. Sometimes in that first meeting, we knock out half the document. Sometimes in that first meeting, we have four or five choices for a brand vision, and we reschedule. Depends on the board honestly.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I would encourage people not to rush this part of it. We gotta have a website up next month so we are going to do something. That may do you more harm than good. There is such a thing as negative brand recognition, isn’t there?</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> Understanding that your brand says something, what does it say? Are you controlling that? Are you purposely driving that message? Your brand is going to say something. Whether it says we knew what we’re doing, we’re fun, we’re exciting, we do all this stuff, or it says, maybe we don’t know, maybe we’re not put together, maybe we’re not organized. It’s going to have a message. People are going to take that subconsciously without even knowing it. There are plenty of fantastic organizations out there with horrendous logos. They come across my desk. We donate to this. I look at it and push it aside. I look at this one over here. I know these guys. Later on, I find this other organization is fantastic, it just didn’t look good. I wasn’t writing a check to it because I didn’t trust it. I’m not saying that there is somehow a correlation to how good an organization you are. But it does impact perception.</p> <p>Perception is so key. Regardless of the truth, perception is the truth to most people, right? How often are we misjudged? I am just talking personally as people. We misjudge or we are misjudged all the time. This is another conversation. That is perception. You can’t just say, That’s not who I am and get mad about it. Unfortunately, to that person, perception is their truth. Until it’s corrected, that perception is what they are going to believe. The perception of your brand unfortunately is the truth to your audience until you change that. You take control of your brand and say, “I want my brand to say this.” Therefore, everything else will follow it.</p> <p>I want Rock Paper Simple’s brand to say that we empower people who are awesome at what they do. Whether that is they do, we empower them to grow and build. The rest of our statements go into how we do that. Our core values talk about how we go about doing what we do with the character of the company. Things like integrity, growth, and teamwork. These are all things in core to our team. One of our core values is community. That is why we do so much in the community. Why do we do that? it’s part of the brand essence. It’s part of the message we want to speak. I was speaking the other day and somebody made the comment, “Oh yeah, Rock Paper Simple does all kinds of stuff in the community.” The brand’s working. We are doing stuff. People know us as a company that does that. That’s important. Is my brand going to accidentally just communicate to people that we have integrity, that we are team players, that we are fun? No. I have to decide that’s what I want the brand to say and then push it out there. We are a very fun brand. One of our core values is legitimately fun. We do things that convey that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You are a mushroom. You are a fun-gi. All right. This is helpful information. To do your design, there is a whole bunch of stuff underneath that: engaging the board in meaningful conversation around this. People can go to rockpapersimple.com/hugh and get some more information.</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There are some special offers. Joshua Adams, I know you have a very fine team behind you, but you are the leader and you have created this powerful vision for yourself. Thank you for helping us think about design and how we engage our board around that.</p> <p><strong>Joshua:</strong> For sure. Glad to help.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Why Understanding Marketing is Crucial for Nonprofits</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/why-understanding-marking-is-crucial-for-nonprofits</link>
      <description>Nonprofit Marketing with Geo Ropert
 Interview Transcript
  
 Hugh Ballou: This is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis co-hosting this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. Hello, Russ.
 Russell Dennis: Good happy Halloween. Good to see you both.
 Hugh: As we are recording this, it is Halloween in 2017. You might be listening to this in another century. We are creating episodes for posterity. Russ, we have been on this journey for quite a while. Thank you for hanging in there and being my co-host.
 Russell: It’s a pleasure. I meet so many interesting people, like Geo, who is here to talk to us today about marketing. And a lot of nonprofits don’t think they have to do that, but you have to get your message out.
 Hugh: You spoiled the surprise. We were going to surprise them.
 Geo Ropert: I might as well hang up now.
 Hugh: Geo Ropert, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Geo: Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here. I am certainly honored that you asked me to join you, and I am really looking forward to this today.
 Hugh: I looked at your resume, and you have been holding out on me. You haven’t told me all that good stuff. We generally start out asking people to talk about themselves. In a little snapshot, the things that are related to PR and marketing. Then after you talk about yourself, what’s your background in this really complicated, for those of us who don’t know it, what’s your background and what’s gotten you here? After you do that, distinguish between PR and marketing. I know people confuse marketing and sales, but they also confuse PR and marketing. They don’t know where sales fits. If you can sort that out. But first, give us a snapshot about Geo.
 Geo: I have 20+ years in the public relations and integrated marketing community. We’ll talk about that as you had asked. I am accredited in public relations, which means I hold a national certification that less than 10% of PR professionals throughout the country have. I have won awards for my work, and I have been- It really is my passion. I love to communicate. I love to help businesses and organizations share their message across platforms, everything from traditional to new digital and social. I work especially with businesses and nonprofits to really help them be able to tell their story and for them to be the ones that people pay attention to when they speak, when they produce content, when they get out there to their audiences.
 I have worked in the nonprofit field. I have probably a little more than 10 years working exclusively for nonprofits, both 501(c)3 and 501(c)6 organizations, so I’ve spent a lot of time really in the trenches with those communities and have learned a lot and have really been able to translate that knowledge to help out organizations, especially nonprofits. That is where my passion lies: helping those folks be able to engage their audiences and gain the support and the resources they need so that they can do the good work that they do.
 If you want to talk about public relations and marketing, while they are similar, they are very different in the sense that public relations really has to deal with the side of a business that is the brand. It’s the storytelling, it’s the reputation-building, it’s the work that is done to create buzz, if you will, to create information and knowledge. It’s meant to educate and inform audiences so that they can understand what a business is, what they stand for, their mission, their vision, their values, their culture—all those things are public relations.
 Marketing, on the other side, is a staff function that is really about the promotion of products and services that the company has. If you are talking about selling widgets or if you are talking about having your organization that helps feed hungry children or protects kids from danger, these are the things that marketing does. It’s getting out the word on those products and services. They work together intimately, but in most cases, people see that as different.
 I’ve been working in the realm where my belief is the industry has been changing to more or less meld those two together because it really is about communication, and the way we communicate today really blurs the lines sometimes. It is effective in both of its aspects.
 Hugh: Actually, you need to have a good public image or your marketing won’t be helpful.
 Geo: If your reputation is shot, you could have the best products in the world, but nobody will buy them.
 Hugh: People also confuse sales and marketing. Sales is another animal. Do you want to give us a sound bite about what’s different about sales?
 Geo: Sales is the process that marketing is geared to do, to make people aware of what those products and services are, the benefits they have for them. Then sales is the close. That is where all the process of engaging interesting, getting clients to pay attention and come to your website or make that phone call to your business, everything then is left to the folks in sales to close that deal.
 Hugh: We are going to focus on the marketing piece. We have had other experts on this series over the years. Cheryl Snapp Conner owns a large PR agency in Salt Lake City; she was here several months ago and is very eloquent about her field of PR, doing press releases and getting that image out there. The niche that is marketing, that’s moving people toward understanding why they need goods and services—charities aren’t in business for selling things. I’m using the word “charity” instead of “nonprofit” for this conversation. Why would a charity need even think about marketing?
 Geo: Because there are—let’s see how many there are—over a million public charities in the United States alone. Those are a lot of voices out there, each vying for the attention.
 Hugh: Four million. 501 somethings. Churches and government. There are a lot of variances.
 Geo: I’m sorry. I had a million public charities. You’re right about the four million. Everyone is clamoring for the attention, the pocketbooks of folks who can support their causes. As much as each of them are involved in very important and very worthwhile endeavors, there is a limited pie out there of funds and resources that are available. The ones who can tell their story the best, who can communicate what their audience is most effectively, are the ones who are going to succeed and be able to advance their causes where the others are basically struggling. I think we see more of the majority struggling than those we do being successful.
 Hugh: Absolutely. There is a fallacy out there, and it is exposed in Dan Pallotta’s TED Talk, The way we think about charity is dead wrong, and he has a book to follow that up. The TED Talk says the fallacy is that nonprofits, he says charities, cannot spend money on marketing. That is taboo. I believe- Russell, we don’t agree with that, do we?
 Russell: I disagree completely because a lot of people in nonprofits, especially if you are talking about a social worker or teacher, have difficulty talking about the value that their organization provides. It’s a value proposition. A lot of people look at it as bragging when in fact it’s just telling people that you are doing good work. Marketing is important.
 A thought just crossed my mind. I came up with a question because I know that reputation management and getting the word out there about what you’re doing are separate but melded together. I was wondering what Geo thought is the right balance between PR and marketing.
 Geo: I think if you are looking for a balance, you really want to integrate them both effectively. I don’t think you put one on top of the other in the sense that of course you have to have your brand identity established and visible and strong. People need to recognize it and know what you do, who you are, what you stand for, and what you do to benefit the community. That really is the telling of the story if you want to in PR.
 In marketing, it’s telling people exactly what you do, why it’s important that they support your cause. You say, “Well, we don’t have products or services.” Most do. They have some type of service. They provide some type, whether that be support or education or advocacy. All of those things really fall into the marketing side of it.
 What a lot of nonprofits- You’re right. They talk about marketing and PR and spending money on it as a taboo thing, that it’s not something they should do. I agree. It is completely the wrong idea to have because unless you are spending money on your voice and getting your message across to people, you are going to be one of the majority that are having a huge amount of trouble keeping your funding sources alive, keeping your organization alive. That is one of the problems I see.
 What I also see is that many nonprofits- I can’t tell you how many times a month I get approached by organizations that want to get support, but they are not able or willing to pay for it. They expect to have it for free, pro bono services. While I do believe in helping my community and I support an organization that I work with every year, sometimes intensely, unfortunately I have bills to pay. I have to be able to afford to keep the business running.
 Getting them to understand the value of PR and marketing, and marketing especially, is sometimes the hardest thing to do. Once they can really grasp that, and it comes from the leadership down, the executives, the board of directors, once they can understand that you put money into marketing is going to have a return on that investment and is going to grow the donor base, it’s going to grow the support base, and they can see that, then it starts to make sense to them, and they are more willing to invest in actual professional services and, if not, investing in the tools and software that are able to accomplish that.
 Hugh: Geo, what’s an appropriate amount as far as a percentage? Is there any kind of benchmark? You mention something that triggered this. We use the word “nonprofit,” and we go into this scarcity thinking that we can’t pay for anything. We can’t pay good salaries, we can’t pay for services, we can’t allot money to marketing, we can’t spend money talking about the goods and services, the good that we do, the impact. That is what is going to drive sales. Sales is donations. Sales is for churches, synagogues, it’s evangelism. It’s growing your numbers in the 501(c)6s, the membership organizations. Why is it important? What is the impact of our work? We are telling a story.
 Go back to this. You started exploring about stories a while ago. Where does that fit? There is two questions in here. How do you figure out what’s an appropriate amount to designate in your budget to marketing? What kind of information do you- You can’t tell people everything, so you have a limited budget. If you grow the revenue, then you can grow that marketing budget in tandem with that. How do you decide what to market? How much to spend, and what is the story you are going to tell?
 Geo: According to the numbers I’ve seen out there, there was almost $400 billion given to charities last year alone. Of that, we would expect, as a business does, to spend a minimum of 10% at least on the marketing efforts. You could figure that is about $39 billion that would go out to help communicate that story, that message.
 That can fluctuate anywhere from on the low end to 5% on the high end to- Some of them are spending up to 15% if you look at charitable organizations and the nonprofit organizations, the 501(c)6s.
 What they do, the good ones, is they tell a consistent story that resonates. They have a mission. They focus on the mission in their campaigns, in their public relations and in their marketing campaigns, with a singular, strong message. You could have an organization. Maybe you do three or four different things, but your main mission needs to be conveyed and clear. What happens is oftentimes people say, Well, we do this, we do that, we help these folks, we help those folks. It confuses the message. There are millions of messages going out every day that we are being bombarded with. If a message from an organization comes across in three or four different ways, how are we going to be able to focus on that? It takes a minimum of seven times for somebody to see your name to recognize it, to see your message and recognize it. Unless they see that message seven times, maybe in a slightly altered way but still the same consistent message, the chances of traction are slim to none.
 Hugh: I have to think about that. What do you think, Russ?
 Russell: In terms of income, if people are spending money, they are going to want to know what I am getting back for this. How important is it to show a return on generating income? Is there a typical amount for nonprofits in terms of looking at return on investment with those dollars that they invest?
 Geo: I think what you do is you look at the 5-15% of your annual revenue as a baseline maybe to say, Okay, this is where we are going to start. What happens in nonprofits is they base their marketing revenue on those numbers, and if the numbers go down, so do their marketing efforts. Where I believe that you need to be consistent and strong and you have to have a budget set aside. It’s not overhead to me. It really isn’t considered an overhead expense like executive salaries and rent and those kinds of things. It is an expense that helps to generate revenue. If revenues start to decline and you cut way back on your marketing dollars, you might as well just expect those numbers continue to decline. Whereas I think good marketers and executives who understand their value of effective marketing are more apt to say, Okay, let’s put in a substantial and usable amount of revenue into our marketing efforts. If we continue to do that and our mission continues to be strong and delivered across the right platforms, we are going to grow our revenue, we are going to grow our support, we are going to get the things we need to get.
 Hugh: I saw some evidence—Russ, that’s a good question—during the last so-called recession that businesses cut way back on their marketing budgets, but the few that didn’t kept market share and actually increased market share during that recession. Russ, I’m sorry, I interrupted you there.
 Russell: Just in your reply there, you hit on what I call the magic dirty buzz word, and that is overhead. People are in the frame of mind that anything that you spend beyond the actual delivery of those services is overhead and that you got to put the squeeze on that. You can’t have a huge overhead. Marketing and PR is important. When a corporation goes out and spends money on that, they applaud them. They go out and hire superstar marketing people and superstar executives to run the organization. They pay them good salaries, but they draw in huge amounts of money. Nobody ever questions that because they can see that value.
 When a nonprofit or social profit tries to do that, it becomes taboo. It leads to what they call overhead. I don’t think they are doing this, that marketing and PR among other things and fundraising are bad ways to spend that money. You have to have a good structure to have a good solid program. When it comes to marketing and PR with nonprofits, what are the biggest challenges that you see nonprofits having when it comes to actually taking it up, doing it, and doing it well?
 Geo: The thing I see is the lack of knowledge, the lack of experience, to do that job. Oftentimes, a lot of nonprofits will say, You are the reception today, and this afternoon, you are going to be our chief marketing officer. Very little knowledge of what it entails. This is a profession. This is something that people go to school for to get educated. Some of us have spent many hours a week, let alone throughout the year, honing our skills, growing our education to do that. That is one of the things.
 Another standing is the available vehicles to us for marketing. There are so many, but they have to be selectively chosen based on the type of audience that you have, the type of response that you want to get, and also basically the areas that you want to focus your attentions on. It’s one of those things where so often I see, and people have sat down with some folks in the last couple of weeks and they said, “Well, we want to market our agency. We want to market our organization.” I said, “What’s your budget?” “We don’t have one.” “Good luck.”
 As much as you can get something, you can get free press donated. Media is great about supporting causes, local newspapers, publications, digital sites that will do that, but you still got to pay for things like Facebook advertising, social media advertising. You have to pay for websites and development and maintenance of those. There are costs to the things that you print and your direct mail costs. If everybody would give it away, it’s wonderful, but I am also reminded that you get what you pay for. If you think you are going to get something free from these people, they will get it to you when they get it to you. They may not be there. They are probably not as deeply invested as somebody whom you pay, even if it is a modicum of money to at least value their services, their expertise. That is what I try to push people to understand. Spend a little money, and you can make a lot of money.
 Hugh: It’s not really cost; it’s an investment.
 Geo: Absolutely.
 Hugh: Going back to Russ’s question on ROI, we have the old- There is another way that comes up here: advertising. Is advertising part of marketing?
 Geo: Yes, advertising is one of the vehicles we use to market. If you are going to spend money on advertising, that is part of your marketing budget. Return on investment, that is something that you want to set up with the organization. I think that’s part of the goal-setting strategy for any organization is: Okay, what are your revenue or support goals that we want to have this year? Then back those numbers out and say, Okay, we believe that we’re going to raise $3 million this year. We are going to spend $300,000 of that in marketing and PR services and software and vehicles and print and digital and creative costs and those kinds of things. It’s very clear.
 An organization that has a track record can easily look at their data and say, Okay, we spent this amount of money on Facebook this year, and that got us the best return on our investment. We went over to Instagram or YouTube, and those didn’t necessarily perform as well. We will allocate our resources where they work best. There are so many tools out there right now to be able to gauge what your efforts are doing. They are very measurable. We rely on them now. We can’t just walk into a client and say, “We have an ad or an article in your paper. It has a circulation of 200,000. We multiply that by 1.5, and that is your average viewer.” No, now we can actually measure who sees the ad, who responds to it, who interacts with it, and we can trace them all the way from initial interest through that final check being written or that volunteer sign-up being taken care of.
 Hugh: That’s really good. One of our sponsors at SynerVision is the company that prints our magazine Nonprofit Professional Performance, Wordsprint. Bill Gilmer has been on this show and on a panel that we had on PR a while back. His research is in the area of direct mail because he is a print house and a mail house. His statistics are very profound about when people get something in their hand. His research says it’s 30% the message, 30% the person, 30% a regular rhythm, and only 10% the appearance. He has years of documentation.
 The donations don’t only remain consistent with the donors, but they go up because people understand the impact of their money, the return on life, ROL. Their return on their investment is the return on people’s lives, the impact. He calls that top of mind marketing. What does that term mean to you? He backs it up with an email. Joe, you got a magazine yesterday, did you look on page four? That doubles the open rate. His research almost without exception is that the donors remain engaged and remain donors because we have done more than ask for money. We have told them the impact of the work. That is part of your message in PR and marketing. Go back to top of mind marketing. Are there other ways besides this really valuable way? That is Wordsprint.com. For more information, you can go there.
 Geo, top of mind marketing, what is that, and what are other ways you can do that?
 Geo: Hugh, you mentioned one of the key things. People say direct mail and print advertising is dead. It is not. It is still one of the most effective ways to communicate, especially in the fundraising side for charitable organizations. Everybody has to go to their mailbox. Mail arrives every day. They look at that mail, and when that mail catches their eye, it is more likely to stay on the counter or on the table. It’s whereas our digital information that we share comes and goes in the blink of an eye. Unless you’re consistently putting that message out across the platforms that are available, they are great, and they do an enormously good job getting attention. Again, it’s fleeting. I am a big believer, especially in getting messages across that people will read the direct mail, look at it, remember it. It’s that visual imprint. It is great.
 What I always look at is a mix of marketing materials and methods in order to get the point across and to enforce it. If you see in the mail, and the next thing you know you have it on your website or you are looking on Facebook or one of your other social media sites and you see that message repeated again, that’s seven times. How many times do you see it before it finally clicks and you say to yourself, “That is an organization I want to support?” You are absolutely right on sharing the value of their investment. What is that return to them? You can do it visually so much more easily than any way, shape, or form when you have it right there in front of you. You have pictures and stories and words that convey that mission and vision.
 Hugh: I am going to toss it to Russ. He is the one who asks the really hard questions. Russ’s area, one of his areas of brilliance, is helping charities think about their funding options, how they get funded. Russ, relate it to what he was just bringing up and what we have been talking about. There is a relationship to getting more donors, keeping donors, raising donations through what we are talking about. I am going to toss it to you for some comments and questions if you will.
 Russell: I think this is part of what comes in when it comes to the fear of how much you spend. There are so many different channels out there that people are focused about which ones to use. The answer to that is it really depends on where your audience is. At my age, they like getting stuff in the mail; they can hold onto it. But if you are reaching out to younger people, they may be in social media, they may be on websites, they could be anywhere. I think if you tailored a channel to where your donors are coming from, you meet them where they are. It takes a little bit of homework to figure that out, but at that point, you can really target your dollars to where you want them to go. That is where people get overwhelmed. I think they should be working from their strengths and whatever works best. That may be direct mail and Facebook for some organizations; it may be Instagram and email if they have a younger audience. Talk a little bit about how you gauge that and how you help nonprofits figure out what the best mediums are for them.
 Geo: There is a lot of data out there on the demographics of every person on Earth right now. I like to say that with the analytics and data we have, we know what coffee you drink, when you wake up in the morning, what color pajamas you have, and what car you are driving to work. It’s all there. We have become a very sharing society that we basically give it away and let people know who we are, what we do, what we like, and what we don’t like.
 You were asking about what works. There is a 2016 Content Marketing Institute report on the nonprofits in America. Believe it or not, in-person events are still the largest and most effective way for nonprofits to get their message across and to gain supporters. That personal one-on-one touch-and-feel that people have in a personal interaction is still the most important, followed by illustrations and photos, e-newsletters, videos, social media content (interesting that it only ranks fifth out of the most effective tactics) followed up by case studies and those kinds of things, a lot of data and information and background information that people look for.
 It really is imperative that you have someone who understands how to read demographics, how to interpret those, and be able to take those and say, Okay, our group from 35-54 is mainly on this type of media or reads this type of publication or attends these functions. All of those have to be wrapped up. You have to get a real good understanding of who your audience is. That is the only way you are going to effectively market and spend your money. Again, you can throw that wide net out and put it out in a newspaper. It may have a circulation of 200,000, but only less than 1% of those people could be target audiences for you. You just wasted 99% of your budget right there to reach the 1% that is actually going to care.
 Russell: There is a lot of data out there on that. It is really easy to get lost in the weeds. What would you say are the most effective marketing strategies organizations can use to grow their share of that donor base or other supporters like volunteers or board members or advisors?
 Geo: Understand your market. Know what appeals to them. Know what their hot buttons are. Where do they have their most care? In business, we talk about the citizen brand, where you create the culture and a mission and a vision that reflects your audience. That is becoming an interesting thing to follow in the way that all organizations are operating is to say to their people: What is important to you? That is important to us. It really helps to create a stronger bond because people today want to know what is in it for me. How are you going to make my world better through your work? Even in a charitable organization, they are still saying that. How are you going to save the animals or save the rainforest, or how are you going to protect abused and neglected children? What is your culture going to do that is going to get me to want to write that check or volunteer my time and efforts?
 Russell: Those are brilliant reasons for reaching out repeatedly because you don’t always have to have an ask. You can ask questions and find out what is important to them. You can take that language and recycle it and return it back to them in their solution.
 Geo: Exactly. The three important things to do when you are communicating, especially in the public relations realm, is to inform, educate, and entertain. You are able to do all of those things even with a charitable organization because you inform them of your mission, you educate them and show them what their results are of their support, and it is okay to entertain, too, because not every message has to be, We are in a terrible situation. Our clients are destitute. Our planet is falling apart, whatever that may be. It’s also okay to take a lighter side, show how the organization reaches out in the community, show what some of the folks do in their daily lives, show behind the scenes of what this organization does in their daily work. Create that. Again, you want to create that personal feeling. You want the person who you are targeting to feel like those are the same people that I am, and I want to be with them. All three of those, if they are done properly and in the right percentages, you have an extremely effective message platform that works.
 Russell: Live videos from your events where you see people having a good time. What could be more fun? People can say, “Hey, I want to go to the next party these guys throw.”
 Geo: Video is hands-down the most important thing that people see nowadays. It has the largest effect. As I am sure is well-known, we have less of an attention span than a goldfish of less than eight seconds. Text doesn’t do it. Photos are okay. But you put something on video, and that’s why Instagram is growing and Facebook is such a volume. Facebook Live is the go-to platform for people to put their messages out there and all the video capabilities that Facebook and YouTube and Vimeo and theses platforms have. They have realized the importance that video has in marketing and public relations efforts.
 Hugh: So there is a lot of dynamics that come to mind. Russ, we have interviewed several people on this topic. It’s like the quote Williams said, “Music did not reveal all of its secrets to only one person.” We can take marketing/PR and substitute it in there. I am hearing some different things. What about you, Russ?
 Russell: Every time I talk to somebody about this, I learn new stuff. There is a lot to grasp. There is a lot of approaches. Like anything else, different people resonate with different people at a different level.
 Hugh: I am sorry to interrupt you, but there is so much to cover that we can’t just cover it in one podcast. The other people had really valuable stuff; you’re not just contradicting them. You are filling in some of the cracks that we don’t have time to deal with. Russ asked earlier how we measure the effectiveness of your campaign. I had somebody we’re talking about. I wanted to introduce them to Bill Gilmer for this direct mail piece, which he is so successful at. They said, “Oh, I tried that last year, and it didn’t work.” I said, “You went to the gym one day and that didn’t work, either?” I stole that from Bill. Bill says flat-out, “You have to do this for two years four times a year in order to see tangible results.” We get in there and want to see success overnight. That is not reasonable, isn’t it?
 Geo: No, it isn’t. When we sit down with a client, I tell them that it’s going to take us six months to be able to honestly make an impact in what we’re going to be doing for you. We need six months’ minimum. A year is what we really like. Those efforts are going to take time to gather steam. Developing and distributing content takes time to get it out there, to use it in all its various forms. We are very clear. We can measure on a daily, weekly basis everything that you want to know. We can tell you what’s happening, but we can’t tell trends until we are able to see some data come in. I just started with a client, and we are doing Google AdWords. I think we’re going to have a great return. Can you tell us what we’re going to be doing as we go every week or so? Yes, we can, but we are going to be testing various messages. We are going to find out if that message resonated or if we changed a few phrases, that one worked better. Then we are going to work on that and test another one. Eventually, after a while, you have got the data to back up and say, “These key words work. These key phrases are what are getting people’s attention and are causing them to react and take action.” Anybody who wants it overnight is not going to get it. You really need to understand that because otherwise you are just spinning your wheels. You are throwing money at the next thing the next day. If one doesn’t work, we’ll put money here. No, let’s refine what we are doing here because this is the platform that our audience is on. Let’s make sure we work to create the messaging that is going to be effective.
 Hugh: You spoke about live video as a platform. You have spoken about direct mail. That’s a platform. Speak about some of the choices for platforms on digital marketing.
 Geo: Digital is like the wild, wild West. There are over 242 social media sites, and those don’t include the dating sites. Just in social media alone, you have a plethora. Those are general social media, industry-specific, interest-specific, all kinds of platforms. Right now, the digital platforms that nonprofits and charitable organizations are using and that have the most effect is Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram, Google+, and Pinterest, in descending order. Those are the platforms that are available in a social media sense.
 You also have your website, which should be the hub of all of your marketing materials. All of your social media should direct back to your website. That has to be a very fluid and dynamic piece of work that is easy to navigate, easy to understand, clearly defines messaging, benefits, features, all of those things that any business and organization is going to want to put in front of folks.
 Then you have your digital platforms, your blogs and digital publications and those areas where you can use your message to get out articles, white papers. You can place ads within most digital publications that are attuned to your audience. They are all out there right now. As I said, you can really focus your marketing dollars where it’s going to be best and you will get the phrase return because the data on each of those platforms is very clear. You don’t have to guess about what’s going to happen once you’re there, as long as you understand that it’s the place that you’re supposed to be.
 Hugh: When I work with charities of all kinds, I suggest they have someone internal that has the communications hat on. When they hire a person like you to build out their marketing campaign or their donor management correspondence, there needs to be somebody that is focused on bringing in all the data to one point. Somebody like you can be more effective in helping the organization. I find so many people working in charities that are underfunded are overworked and stretched. Imagine without the right data you can’t be fully effective, can you?
 Geo: No, not at all. Nor would you expect to be. I wouldn’t want to walk in and be thrown into a situation where I wasn’t given the tools or data. If you are the receptionist in the morning and you are the marketing person in the afternoon, I consider that a waste of money. You might as well just break me a nice check and let me go play golf because that is about what you’re going to get out of that person. It’s nothing against them; it’s just they don’t know how to do it. When my firm comes in and works with a nonprofit, I bring a team of folks. I have the web designers, the writers, the social media experts, the AdWords experts, the graphic designers, whatever that organization is going to need. I am able to put the team together and only for what they’re going to ned. I am not keeping a full staff and having to pay salaries for people who aren’t working on that particular project to keep the company running, which I believe helps the nonprofits out because they get exactly what they need. It’s on time, great time, great service. That is what I think makes a difference. We get in there, and as I always look at it as a partnership, business or charitable organization. I call them partners. It’s not only for the partners I work with to produce, but it’s also the folks I work with because I want to be their partners in marketing and public relations and be a part of their success and help them to reach their goals. When I am doing that, I am as intimately involved in their organization as they are. I learn everything about it. I get data, I get history, I get nuances and rumors and innuendos and anything else they want to share that can help me to better understand how to operate so I can help them do what they really want to do, which is grow, succeed, and serve their communities.
 Hugh: Russ, we are in the last part of our interview. I am going to toss it back to you for some comments and questions, if you will.
 Russell: One thing that came to mind is that you do have a lot of these smaller shops that don’t have the staffing or funding. What kind of tools could someone like Hugh or I give to an organization that is in this situation that would empower them enough to gather enough information that you would actually be helpful to them?
 Geo: There are a lot of free and very inexpensive software platforms that you can use for data analysis, data gathering. Google Analytics is #1. You can go to your website and once you set up your Analytics code, you can see exactly what kind of traffic you are getting to your website, where it’s coming from, how long they’re there, what kind of pages they visit, so you can determine your strengths in messaging. Facebook Insights is another one where if you are putting out Facebook campaigns, you are getting data back on the users. There is plenty of remarketing and other tools that Facebook has that don’t cost you anything. It’s just the cost you are paying for placing your ads.
 A customer relationship management software program is critical for every organization, especially when you are talking about data and analytics. A couple that are great that I’ve used is HubSpot. There is a free version of it, which is not as robust as their full system, but it allows you to be able to capture names and email addresses and then also to share that with your email system, like MailChimp or Constant Contact. You have CRMs like SalesForce or Zoho. All have a cost to them, which you have to consider when you are putting your marketing budget together. The software platforms you are going to use to analyze your data. You have to keep all of these things in check and in mind and find the one that is going to work best for you.
 There are a ton of fundraising management tools that are online that can help you out. SalesForce, Raisers Edge, Donor Perfect. I like Salsa. It’s a really robust system that is fairly inexpensive, but it gives you the opportunity to manage your donors online and your messaging to them. A couple of free ones that I’ve seen work but have not tried yet are Donor Manager, Metrics, Donor Box, and Civic RM. Those are all free. They have different capabilities. You go online and can pull up a web search and say “Free fundraising software.” You will get a list of all of those that are there. There are a lot of great resources that compare them and show the pluses and minuses.
 Russell: One of the things that comes to mind because a lot of it is sofware-driven. If you are a nonprofit charity, you can register on the Tech Soup platform, and you can get licenses for commercial software at a reduced rate. That is an important thing for nonprofits to do because you can spend a ton of money on software.
 Geo: Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Companies do, but they are bringing in millions and millions of dollars, and that software is their life blood. I’s critical now. You can’t do business without knowing where your information is coming from and where your customers are coming from.
 Hugh: Amazing. There is a lot to know about this topic. I think we are going to wrap up here. Geo, we have covered a lot of the topics that we had thought about covering. Is there an area we haven’t asked you about that you want to give us some data in before we do a wrap?
 Geo: One of the things that we work on as we are working with clients is: What is important to you? The results are interesting. This comes back to, and I have to agree with what happened in the Content Marketing Institute survey in 2016. Engagement, brand awareness, and developing client loyalty are the top three things that content marketing and marketing efforts are going to do or the goal of those for an organization. They want to get their base engaged, they want to raise that brand awareness, and they want those folks to take that action, to join that organization, to be there not just for that one check, but to be there for five to ten years down the road. Look at when you are setting up your PR and marketing efforts, make sure you establish some very clear goals as to what you want to achieve from them. Getting your name out is great, but what happens when you do that? What then do you want to happen? How do you want in sequence your efforts to move forward? If you start with the brand exposure, how do you then make sure that that becomes an engagement effort, and then how does that translate to getting the folks to say, “You know what? I am going to find out more about the organization and write a check and sign up to help out.”
 Hugh: That’s awesome. That sounds like a good summary statement. What do you think, Russ?
 Russell: Absolutely. What do we want people to know, feel, and do? It just comes back in so many ways, but that can’t be overemphasized because that is the whole kit and caboodle. If you’re not there, you will never reach the people you want to get to.
 Geo: Never. It’s easy to miss them if you don’t know what you’re looking for.
 Hugh: Geo Ropert, Ropert and Partners is your company. Thank you for sharing this information. I have learned a lot today. Russ, it’s given me some ideas for us to move SynerVision in another direction.
 Russell: There is a lot of information people need so they can be good clients. There is a bit of an art and science in the pro bono. Like Geo pointed out, it’s not for something you need yesterday. You have to be clear on what it is that you want out of that engagement. Even as a pro bono client, you have to in some ways behave like a paying client. That is another discussion. Geo, thanks for all the brilliant information you have provided. There is so much out there to take into consideration. But the main thought I want to leave people with is that you can’t afford not to talk about what you’re doing. You can do the best work in the world, but if nobody knows about it, nobody sends you a check.
 Geo: No. No, they do not. If you know any nonprofits that need some help in PR or marketing, give me a call. I can help out.
 Hugh: You will give them a free consultation, won’t you?
 Geo: Absolutely. The consultation is free. The work isn’t.
 Hugh: We’ll put your link in the notes. Geo, thank you so much.
 Geo: Thank you, Hugh, and thank you, Russ. It was great to be here.
 Russell: Thank you.
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      <pubDate>Wed, 08 Nov 2017 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
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      <itunes:subtitle>Marketing for Nonprofits with Geo Ropert</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Nonprofit Marketing with Geo Ropert
 Interview Transcript
  
 Hugh Ballou: This is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis co-hosting this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. Hello, Russ.
 Russell Dennis: Good happy Halloween. Good to see you both.
 Hugh: As we are recording this, it is Halloween in 2017. You might be listening to this in another century. We are creating episodes for posterity. Russ, we have been on this journey for quite a while. Thank you for hanging in there and being my co-host.
 Russell: It’s a pleasure. I meet so many interesting people, like Geo, who is here to talk to us today about marketing. And a lot of nonprofits don’t think they have to do that, but you have to get your message out.
 Hugh: You spoiled the surprise. We were going to surprise them.
 Geo Ropert: I might as well hang up now.
 Hugh: Geo Ropert, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.
 Geo: Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here. I am certainly honored that you asked me to join you, and I am really looking forward to this today.
 Hugh: I looked at your resume, and you have been holding out on me. You haven’t told me all that good stuff. We generally start out asking people to talk about themselves. In a little snapshot, the things that are related to PR and marketing. Then after you talk about yourself, what’s your background in this really complicated, for those of us who don’t know it, what’s your background and what’s gotten you here? After you do that, distinguish between PR and marketing. I know people confuse marketing and sales, but they also confuse PR and marketing. They don’t know where sales fits. If you can sort that out. But first, give us a snapshot about Geo.
 Geo: I have 20+ years in the public relations and integrated marketing community. We’ll talk about that as you had asked. I am accredited in public relations, which means I hold a national certification that less than 10% of PR professionals throughout the country have. I have won awards for my work, and I have been- It really is my passion. I love to communicate. I love to help businesses and organizations share their message across platforms, everything from traditional to new digital and social. I work especially with businesses and nonprofits to really help them be able to tell their story and for them to be the ones that people pay attention to when they speak, when they produce content, when they get out there to their audiences.
 I have worked in the nonprofit field. I have probably a little more than 10 years working exclusively for nonprofits, both 501(c)3 and 501(c)6 organizations, so I’ve spent a lot of time really in the trenches with those communities and have learned a lot and have really been able to translate that knowledge to help out organizations, especially nonprofits. That is where my passion lies: helping those folks be able to engage their audiences and gain the support and the resources they need so that they can do the good work that they do.
 If you want to talk about public relations and marketing, while they are similar, they are very different in the sense that public relations really has to deal with the side of a business that is the brand. It’s the storytelling, it’s the reputation-building, it’s the work that is done to create buzz, if you will, to create information and knowledge. It’s meant to educate and inform audiences so that they can understand what a business is, what they stand for, their mission, their vision, their values, their culture—all those things are public relations.
 Marketing, on the other side, is a staff function that is really about the promotion of products and services that the company has. If you are talking about selling widgets or if you are talking about having your organization that helps feed hungry children or protects kids from danger, these are the things that marketing does. It’s getting out the word on those products and services. They work together intimately, but in most cases, people see that as different.
 I’ve been working in the realm where my belief is the industry has been changing to more or less meld those two together because it really is about communication, and the way we communicate today really blurs the lines sometimes. It is effective in both of its aspects.
 Hugh: Actually, you need to have a good public image or your marketing won’t be helpful.
 Geo: If your reputation is shot, you could have the best products in the world, but nobody will buy them.
 Hugh: People also confuse sales and marketing. Sales is another animal. Do you want to give us a sound bite about what’s different about sales?
 Geo: Sales is the process that marketing is geared to do, to make people aware of what those products and services are, the benefits they have for them. Then sales is the close. That is where all the process of engaging interesting, getting clients to pay attention and come to your website or make that phone call to your business, everything then is left to the folks in sales to close that deal.
 Hugh: We are going to focus on the marketing piece. We have had other experts on this series over the years. Cheryl Snapp Conner owns a large PR agency in Salt Lake City; she was here several months ago and is very eloquent about her field of PR, doing press releases and getting that image out there. The niche that is marketing, that’s moving people toward understanding why they need goods and services—charities aren’t in business for selling things. I’m using the word “charity” instead of “nonprofit” for this conversation. Why would a charity need even think about marketing?
 Geo: Because there are—let’s see how many there are—over a million public charities in the United States alone. Those are a lot of voices out there, each vying for the attention.
 Hugh: Four million. 501 somethings. Churches and government. There are a lot of variances.
 Geo: I’m sorry. I had a million public charities. You’re right about the four million. Everyone is clamoring for the attention, the pocketbooks of folks who can support their causes. As much as each of them are involved in very important and very worthwhile endeavors, there is a limited pie out there of funds and resources that are available. The ones who can tell their story the best, who can communicate what their audience is most effectively, are the ones who are going to succeed and be able to advance their causes where the others are basically struggling. I think we see more of the majority struggling than those we do being successful.
 Hugh: Absolutely. There is a fallacy out there, and it is exposed in Dan Pallotta’s TED Talk, The way we think about charity is dead wrong, and he has a book to follow that up. The TED Talk says the fallacy is that nonprofits, he says charities, cannot spend money on marketing. That is taboo. I believe- Russell, we don’t agree with that, do we?
 Russell: I disagree completely because a lot of people in nonprofits, especially if you are talking about a social worker or teacher, have difficulty talking about the value that their organization provides. It’s a value proposition. A lot of people look at it as bragging when in fact it’s just telling people that you are doing good work. Marketing is important.
 A thought just crossed my mind. I came up with a question because I know that reputation management and getting the word out there about what you’re doing are separate but melded together. I was wondering what Geo thought is the right balance between PR and marketing.
 Geo: I think if you are looking for a balance, you really want to integrate them both effectively. I don’t think you put one on top of the other in the sense that of course you have to have your brand identity established and visible and strong. People need to recognize it and know what you do, who you are, what you stand for, and what you do to benefit the community. That really is the telling of the story if you want to in PR.
 In marketing, it’s telling people exactly what you do, why it’s important that they support your cause. You say, “Well, we don’t have products or services.” Most do. They have some type of service. They provide some type, whether that be support or education or advocacy. All of those things really fall into the marketing side of it.
 What a lot of nonprofits- You’re right. They talk about marketing and PR and spending money on it as a taboo thing, that it’s not something they should do. I agree. It is completely the wrong idea to have because unless you are spending money on your voice and getting your message across to people, you are going to be one of the majority that are having a huge amount of trouble keeping your funding sources alive, keeping your organization alive. That is one of the problems I see.
 What I also see is that many nonprofits- I can’t tell you how many times a month I get approached by organizations that want to get support, but they are not able or willing to pay for it. They expect to have it for free, pro bono services. While I do believe in helping my community and I support an organization that I work with every year, sometimes intensely, unfortunately I have bills to pay. I have to be able to afford to keep the business running.
 Getting them to understand the value of PR and marketing, and marketing especially, is sometimes the hardest thing to do. Once they can really grasp that, and it comes from the leadership down, the executives, the board of directors, once they can understand that you put money into marketing is going to have a return on that investment and is going to grow the donor base, it’s going to grow the support base, and they can see that, then it starts to make sense to them, and they are more willing to invest in actual professional services and, if not, investing in the tools and software that are able to accomplish that.
 Hugh: Geo, what’s an appropriate amount as far as a percentage? Is there any kind of benchmark? You mention something that triggered this. We use the word “nonprofit,” and we go into this scarcity thinking that we can’t pay for anything. We can’t pay good salaries, we can’t pay for services, we can’t allot money to marketing, we can’t spend money talking about the goods and services, the good that we do, the impact. That is what is going to drive sales. Sales is donations. Sales is for churches, synagogues, it’s evangelism. It’s growing your numbers in the 501(c)6s, the membership organizations. Why is it important? What is the impact of our work? We are telling a story.
 Go back to this. You started exploring about stories a while ago. Where does that fit? There is two questions in here. How do you figure out what’s an appropriate amount to designate in your budget to marketing? What kind of information do you- You can’t tell people everything, so you have a limited budget. If you grow the revenue, then you can grow that marketing budget in tandem with that. How do you decide what to market? How much to spend, and what is the story you are going to tell?
 Geo: According to the numbers I’ve seen out there, there was almost $400 billion given to charities last year alone. Of that, we would expect, as a business does, to spend a minimum of 10% at least on the marketing efforts. You could figure that is about $39 billion that would go out to help communicate that story, that message.
 That can fluctuate anywhere from on the low end to 5% on the high end to- Some of them are spending up to 15% if you look at charitable organizations and the nonprofit organizations, the 501(c)6s.
 What they do, the good ones, is they tell a consistent story that resonates. They have a mission. They focus on the mission in their campaigns, in their public relations and in their marketing campaigns, with a singular, strong message. You could have an organization. Maybe you do three or four different things, but your main mission needs to be conveyed and clear. What happens is oftentimes people say, Well, we do this, we do that, we help these folks, we help those folks. It confuses the message. There are millions of messages going out every day that we are being bombarded with. If a message from an organization comes across in three or four different ways, how are we going to be able to focus on that? It takes a minimum of seven times for somebody to see your name to recognize it, to see your message and recognize it. Unless they see that message seven times, maybe in a slightly altered way but still the same consistent message, the chances of traction are slim to none.
 Hugh: I have to think about that. What do you think, Russ?
 Russell: In terms of income, if people are spending money, they are going to want to know what I am getting back for this. How important is it to show a return on generating income? Is there a typical amount for nonprofits in terms of looking at return on investment with those dollars that they invest?
 Geo: I think what you do is you look at the 5-15% of your annual revenue as a baseline maybe to say, Okay, this is where we are going to start. What happens in nonprofits is they base their marketing revenue on those numbers, and if the numbers go down, so do their marketing efforts. Where I believe that you need to be consistent and strong and you have to have a budget set aside. It’s not overhead to me. It really isn’t considered an overhead expense like executive salaries and rent and those kinds of things. It is an expense that helps to generate revenue. If revenues start to decline and you cut way back on your marketing dollars, you might as well just expect those numbers continue to decline. Whereas I think good marketers and executives who understand their value of effective marketing are more apt to say, Okay, let’s put in a substantial and usable amount of revenue into our marketing efforts. If we continue to do that and our mission continues to be strong and delivered across the right platforms, we are going to grow our revenue, we are going to grow our support, we are going to get the things we need to get.
 Hugh: I saw some evidence—Russ, that’s a good question—during the last so-called recession that businesses cut way back on their marketing budgets, but the few that didn’t kept market share and actually increased market share during that recession. Russ, I’m sorry, I interrupted you there.
 Russell: Just in your reply there, you hit on what I call the magic dirty buzz word, and that is overhead. People are in the frame of mind that anything that you spend beyond the actual delivery of those services is overhead and that you got to put the squeeze on that. You can’t have a huge overhead. Marketing and PR is important. When a corporation goes out and spends money on that, they applaud them. They go out and hire superstar marketing people and superstar executives to run the organization. They pay them good salaries, but they draw in huge amounts of money. Nobody ever questions that because they can see that value.
 When a nonprofit or social profit tries to do that, it becomes taboo. It leads to what they call overhead. I don’t think they are doing this, that marketing and PR among other things and fundraising are bad ways to spend that money. You have to have a good structure to have a good solid program. When it comes to marketing and PR with nonprofits, what are the biggest challenges that you see nonprofits having when it comes to actually taking it up, doing it, and doing it well?
 Geo: The thing I see is the lack of knowledge, the lack of experience, to do that job. Oftentimes, a lot of nonprofits will say, You are the reception today, and this afternoon, you are going to be our chief marketing officer. Very little knowledge of what it entails. This is a profession. This is something that people go to school for to get educated. Some of us have spent many hours a week, let alone throughout the year, honing our skills, growing our education to do that. That is one of the things.
 Another standing is the available vehicles to us for marketing. There are so many, but they have to be selectively chosen based on the type of audience that you have, the type of response that you want to get, and also basically the areas that you want to focus your attentions on. It’s one of those things where so often I see, and people have sat down with some folks in the last couple of weeks and they said, “Well, we want to market our agency. We want to market our organization.” I said, “What’s your budget?” “We don’t have one.” “Good luck.”
 As much as you can get something, you can get free press donated. Media is great about supporting causes, local newspapers, publications, digital sites that will do that, but you still got to pay for things like Facebook advertising, social media advertising. You have to pay for websites and development and maintenance of those. There are costs to the things that you print and your direct mail costs. If everybody would give it away, it’s wonderful, but I am also reminded that you get what you pay for. If you think you are going to get something free from these people, they will get it to you when they get it to you. They may not be there. They are probably not as deeply invested as somebody whom you pay, even if it is a modicum of money to at least value their services, their expertise. That is what I try to push people to understand. Spend a little money, and you can make a lot of money.
 Hugh: It’s not really cost; it’s an investment.
 Geo: Absolutely.
 Hugh: Going back to Russ’s question on ROI, we have the old- There is another way that comes up here: advertising. Is advertising part of marketing?
 Geo: Yes, advertising is one of the vehicles we use to market. If you are going to spend money on advertising, that is part of your marketing budget. Return on investment, that is something that you want to set up with the organization. I think that’s part of the goal-setting strategy for any organization is: Okay, what are your revenue or support goals that we want to have this year? Then back those numbers out and say, Okay, we believe that we’re going to raise $3 million this year. We are going to spend $300,000 of that in marketing and PR services and software and vehicles and print and digital and creative costs and those kinds of things. It’s very clear.
 An organization that has a track record can easily look at their data and say, Okay, we spent this amount of money on Facebook this year, and that got us the best return on our investment. We went over to Instagram or YouTube, and those didn’t necessarily perform as well. We will allocate our resources where they work best. There are so many tools out there right now to be able to gauge what your efforts are doing. They are very measurable. We rely on them now. We can’t just walk into a client and say, “We have an ad or an article in your paper. It has a circulation of 200,000. We multiply that by 1.5, and that is your average viewer.” No, now we can actually measure who sees the ad, who responds to it, who interacts with it, and we can trace them all the way from initial interest through that final check being written or that volunteer sign-up being taken care of.
 Hugh: That’s really good. One of our sponsors at SynerVision is the company that prints our magazine Nonprofit Professional Performance, Wordsprint. Bill Gilmer has been on this show and on a panel that we had on PR a while back. His research is in the area of direct mail because he is a print house and a mail house. His statistics are very profound about when people get something in their hand. His research says it’s 30% the message, 30% the person, 30% a regular rhythm, and only 10% the appearance. He has years of documentation.
 The donations don’t only remain consistent with the donors, but they go up because people understand the impact of their money, the return on life, ROL. Their return on their investment is the return on people’s lives, the impact. He calls that top of mind marketing. What does that term mean to you? He backs it up with an email. Joe, you got a magazine yesterday, did you look on page four? That doubles the open rate. His research almost without exception is that the donors remain engaged and remain donors because we have done more than ask for money. We have told them the impact of the work. That is part of your message in PR and marketing. Go back to top of mind marketing. Are there other ways besides this really valuable way? That is Wordsprint.com. For more information, you can go there.
 Geo, top of mind marketing, what is that, and what are other ways you can do that?
 Geo: Hugh, you mentioned one of the key things. People say direct mail and print advertising is dead. It is not. It is still one of the most effective ways to communicate, especially in the fundraising side for charitable organizations. Everybody has to go to their mailbox. Mail arrives every day. They look at that mail, and when that mail catches their eye, it is more likely to stay on the counter or on the table. It’s whereas our digital information that we share comes and goes in the blink of an eye. Unless you’re consistently putting that message out across the platforms that are available, they are great, and they do an enormously good job getting attention. Again, it’s fleeting. I am a big believer, especially in getting messages across that people will read the direct mail, look at it, remember it. It’s that visual imprint. It is great.
 What I always look at is a mix of marketing materials and methods in order to get the point across and to enforce it. If you see in the mail, and the next thing you know you have it on your website or you are looking on Facebook or one of your other social media sites and you see that message repeated again, that’s seven times. How many times do you see it before it finally clicks and you say to yourself, “That is an organization I want to support?” You are absolutely right on sharing the value of their investment. What is that return to them? You can do it visually so much more easily than any way, shape, or form when you have it right there in front of you. You have pictures and stories and words that convey that mission and vision.
 Hugh: I am going to toss it to Russ. He is the one who asks the really hard questions. Russ’s area, one of his areas of brilliance, is helping charities think about their funding options, how they get funded. Russ, relate it to what he was just bringing up and what we have been talking about. There is a relationship to getting more donors, keeping donors, raising donations through what we are talking about. I am going to toss it to you for some comments and questions if you will.
 Russell: I think this is part of what comes in when it comes to the fear of how much you spend. There are so many different channels out there that people are focused about which ones to use. The answer to that is it really depends on where your audience is. At my age, they like getting stuff in the mail; they can hold onto it. But if you are reaching out to younger people, they may be in social media, they may be on websites, they could be anywhere. I think if you tailored a channel to where your donors are coming from, you meet them where they are. It takes a little bit of homework to figure that out, but at that point, you can really target your dollars to where you want them to go. That is where people get overwhelmed. I think they should be working from their strengths and whatever works best. That may be direct mail and Facebook for some organizations; it may be Instagram and email if they have a younger audience. Talk a little bit about how you gauge that and how you help nonprofits figure out what the best mediums are for them.
 Geo: There is a lot of data out there on the demographics of every person on Earth right now. I like to say that with the analytics and data we have, we know what coffee you drink, when you wake up in the morning, what color pajamas you have, and what car you are driving to work. It’s all there. We have become a very sharing society that we basically give it away and let people know who we are, what we do, what we like, and what we don’t like.
 You were asking about what works. There is a 2016 Content Marketing Institute report on the nonprofits in America. Believe it or not, in-person events are still the largest and most effective way for nonprofits to get their message across and to gain supporters. That personal one-on-one touch-and-feel that people have in a personal interaction is still the most important, followed by illustrations and photos, e-newsletters, videos, social media content (interesting that it only ranks fifth out of the most effective tactics) followed up by case studies and those kinds of things, a lot of data and information and background information that people look for.
 It really is imperative that you have someone who understands how to read demographics, how to interpret those, and be able to take those and say, Okay, our group from 35-54 is mainly on this type of media or reads this type of publication or attends these functions. All of those have to be wrapped up. You have to get a real good understanding of who your audience is. That is the only way you are going to effectively market and spend your money. Again, you can throw that wide net out and put it out in a newspaper. It may have a circulation of 200,000, but only less than 1% of those people could be target audiences for you. You just wasted 99% of your budget right there to reach the 1% that is actually going to care.
 Russell: There is a lot of data out there on that. It is really easy to get lost in the weeds. What would you say are the most effective marketing strategies organizations can use to grow their share of that donor base or other supporters like volunteers or board members or advisors?
 Geo: Understand your market. Know what appeals to them. Know what their hot buttons are. Where do they have their most care? In business, we talk about the citizen brand, where you create the culture and a mission and a vision that reflects your audience. That is becoming an interesting thing to follow in the way that all organizations are operating is to say to their people: What is important to you? That is important to us. It really helps to create a stronger bond because people today want to know what is in it for me. How are you going to make my world better through your work? Even in a charitable organization, they are still saying that. How are you going to save the animals or save the rainforest, or how are you going to protect abused and neglected children? What is your culture going to do that is going to get me to want to write that check or volunteer my time and efforts?
 Russell: Those are brilliant reasons for reaching out repeatedly because you don’t always have to have an ask. You can ask questions and find out what is important to them. You can take that language and recycle it and return it back to them in their solution.
 Geo: Exactly. The three important things to do when you are communicating, especially in the public relations realm, is to inform, educate, and entertain. You are able to do all of those things even with a charitable organization because you inform them of your mission, you educate them and show them what their results are of their support, and it is okay to entertain, too, because not every message has to be, We are in a terrible situation. Our clients are destitute. Our planet is falling apart, whatever that may be. It’s also okay to take a lighter side, show how the organization reaches out in the community, show what some of the folks do in their daily lives, show behind the scenes of what this organization does in their daily work. Create that. Again, you want to create that personal feeling. You want the person who you are targeting to feel like those are the same people that I am, and I want to be with them. All three of those, if they are done properly and in the right percentages, you have an extremely effective message platform that works.
 Russell: Live videos from your events where you see people having a good time. What could be more fun? People can say, “Hey, I want to go to the next party these guys throw.”
 Geo: Video is hands-down the most important thing that people see nowadays. It has the largest effect. As I am sure is well-known, we have less of an attention span than a goldfish of less than eight seconds. Text doesn’t do it. Photos are okay. But you put something on video, and that’s why Instagram is growing and Facebook is such a volume. Facebook Live is the go-to platform for people to put their messages out there and all the video capabilities that Facebook and YouTube and Vimeo and theses platforms have. They have realized the importance that video has in marketing and public relations efforts.
 Hugh: So there is a lot of dynamics that come to mind. Russ, we have interviewed several people on this topic. It’s like the quote Williams said, “Music did not reveal all of its secrets to only one person.” We can take marketing/PR and substitute it in there. I am hearing some different things. What about you, Russ?
 Russell: Every time I talk to somebody about this, I learn new stuff. There is a lot to grasp. There is a lot of approaches. Like anything else, different people resonate with different people at a different level.
 Hugh: I am sorry to interrupt you, but there is so much to cover that we can’t just cover it in one podcast. The other people had really valuable stuff; you’re not just contradicting them. You are filling in some of the cracks that we don’t have time to deal with. Russ asked earlier how we measure the effectiveness of your campaign. I had somebody we’re talking about. I wanted to introduce them to Bill Gilmer for this direct mail piece, which he is so successful at. They said, “Oh, I tried that last year, and it didn’t work.” I said, “You went to the gym one day and that didn’t work, either?” I stole that from Bill. Bill says flat-out, “You have to do this for two years four times a year in order to see tangible results.” We get in there and want to see success overnight. That is not reasonable, isn’t it?
 Geo: No, it isn’t. When we sit down with a client, I tell them that it’s going to take us six months to be able to honestly make an impact in what we’re going to be doing for you. We need six months’ minimum. A year is what we really like. Those efforts are going to take time to gather steam. Developing and distributing content takes time to get it out there, to use it in all its various forms. We are very clear. We can measure on a daily, weekly basis everything that you want to know. We can tell you what’s happening, but we can’t tell trends until we are able to see some data come in. I just started with a client, and we are doing Google AdWords. I think we’re going to have a great return. Can you tell us what we’re going to be doing as we go every week or so? Yes, we can, but we are going to be testing various messages. We are going to find out if that message resonated or if we changed a few phrases, that one worked better. Then we are going to work on that and test another one. Eventually, after a while, you have got the data to back up and say, “These key words work. These key phrases are what are getting people’s attention and are causing them to react and take action.” Anybody who wants it overnight is not going to get it. You really need to understand that because otherwise you are just spinning your wheels. You are throwing money at the next thing the next day. If one doesn’t work, we’ll put money here. No, let’s refine what we are doing here because this is the platform that our audience is on. Let’s make sure we work to create the messaging that is going to be effective.
 Hugh: You spoke about live video as a platform. You have spoken about direct mail. That’s a platform. Speak about some of the choices for platforms on digital marketing.
 Geo: Digital is like the wild, wild West. There are over 242 social media sites, and those don’t include the dating sites. Just in social media alone, you have a plethora. Those are general social media, industry-specific, interest-specific, all kinds of platforms. Right now, the digital platforms that nonprofits and charitable organizations are using and that have the most effect is Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram, Google+, and Pinterest, in descending order. Those are the platforms that are available in a social media sense.
 You also have your website, which should be the hub of all of your marketing materials. All of your social media should direct back to your website. That has to be a very fluid and dynamic piece of work that is easy to navigate, easy to understand, clearly defines messaging, benefits, features, all of those things that any business and organization is going to want to put in front of folks.
 Then you have your digital platforms, your blogs and digital publications and those areas where you can use your message to get out articles, white papers. You can place ads within most digital publications that are attuned to your audience. They are all out there right now. As I said, you can really focus your marketing dollars where it’s going to be best and you will get the phrase return because the data on each of those platforms is very clear. You don’t have to guess about what’s going to happen once you’re there, as long as you understand that it’s the place that you’re supposed to be.
 Hugh: When I work with charities of all kinds, I suggest they have someone internal that has the communications hat on. When they hire a person like you to build out their marketing campaign or their donor management correspondence, there needs to be somebody that is focused on bringing in all the data to one point. Somebody like you can be more effective in helping the organization. I find so many people working in charities that are underfunded are overworked and stretched. Imagine without the right data you can’t be fully effective, can you?
 Geo: No, not at all. Nor would you expect to be. I wouldn’t want to walk in and be thrown into a situation where I wasn’t given the tools or data. If you are the receptionist in the morning and you are the marketing person in the afternoon, I consider that a waste of money. You might as well just break me a nice check and let me go play golf because that is about what you’re going to get out of that person. It’s nothing against them; it’s just they don’t know how to do it. When my firm comes in and works with a nonprofit, I bring a team of folks. I have the web designers, the writers, the social media experts, the AdWords experts, the graphic designers, whatever that organization is going to need. I am able to put the team together and only for what they’re going to ned. I am not keeping a full staff and having to pay salaries for people who aren’t working on that particular project to keep the company running, which I believe helps the nonprofits out because they get exactly what they need. It’s on time, great time, great service. That is what I think makes a difference. We get in there, and as I always look at it as a partnership, business or charitable organization. I call them partners. It’s not only for the partners I work with to produce, but it’s also the folks I work with because I want to be their partners in marketing and public relations and be a part of their success and help them to reach their goals. When I am doing that, I am as intimately involved in their organization as they are. I learn everything about it. I get data, I get history, I get nuances and rumors and innuendos and anything else they want to share that can help me to better understand how to operate so I can help them do what they really want to do, which is grow, succeed, and serve their communities.
 Hugh: Russ, we are in the last part of our interview. I am going to toss it back to you for some comments and questions, if you will.
 Russell: One thing that came to mind is that you do have a lot of these smaller shops that don’t have the staffing or funding. What kind of tools could someone like Hugh or I give to an organization that is in this situation that would empower them enough to gather enough information that you would actually be helpful to them?
 Geo: There are a lot of free and very inexpensive software platforms that you can use for data analysis, data gathering. Google Analytics is #1. You can go to your website and once you set up your Analytics code, you can see exactly what kind of traffic you are getting to your website, where it’s coming from, how long they’re there, what kind of pages they visit, so you can determine your strengths in messaging. Facebook Insights is another one where if you are putting out Facebook campaigns, you are getting data back on the users. There is plenty of remarketing and other tools that Facebook has that don’t cost you anything. It’s just the cost you are paying for placing your ads.
 A customer relationship management software program is critical for every organization, especially when you are talking about data and analytics. A couple that are great that I’ve used is HubSpot. There is a free version of it, which is not as robust as their full system, but it allows you to be able to capture names and email addresses and then also to share that with your email system, like MailChimp or Constant Contact. You have CRMs like SalesForce or Zoho. All have a cost to them, which you have to consider when you are putting your marketing budget together. The software platforms you are going to use to analyze your data. You have to keep all of these things in check and in mind and find the one that is going to work best for you.
 There are a ton of fundraising management tools that are online that can help you out. SalesForce, Raisers Edge, Donor Perfect. I like Salsa. It’s a really robust system that is fairly inexpensive, but it gives you the opportunity to manage your donors online and your messaging to them. A couple of free ones that I’ve seen work but have not tried yet are Donor Manager, Metrics, Donor Box, and Civic RM. Those are all free. They have different capabilities. You go online and can pull up a web search and say “Free fundraising software.” You will get a list of all of those that are there. There are a lot of great resources that compare them and show the pluses and minuses.
 Russell: One of the things that comes to mind because a lot of it is sofware-driven. If you are a nonprofit charity, you can register on the Tech Soup platform, and you can get licenses for commercial software at a reduced rate. That is an important thing for nonprofits to do because you can spend a ton of money on software.
 Geo: Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Companies do, but they are bringing in millions and millions of dollars, and that software is their life blood. I’s critical now. You can’t do business without knowing where your information is coming from and where your customers are coming from.
 Hugh: Amazing. There is a lot to know about this topic. I think we are going to wrap up here. Geo, we have covered a lot of the topics that we had thought about covering. Is there an area we haven’t asked you about that you want to give us some data in before we do a wrap?
 Geo: One of the things that we work on as we are working with clients is: What is important to you? The results are interesting. This comes back to, and I have to agree with what happened in the Content Marketing Institute survey in 2016. Engagement, brand awareness, and developing client loyalty are the top three things that content marketing and marketing efforts are going to do or the goal of those for an organization. They want to get their base engaged, they want to raise that brand awareness, and they want those folks to take that action, to join that organization, to be there not just for that one check, but to be there for five to ten years down the road. Look at when you are setting up your PR and marketing efforts, make sure you establish some very clear goals as to what you want to achieve from them. Getting your name out is great, but what happens when you do that? What then do you want to happen? How do you want in sequence your efforts to move forward? If you start with the brand exposure, how do you then make sure that that becomes an engagement effort, and then how does that translate to getting the folks to say, “You know what? I am going to find out more about the organization and write a check and sign up to help out.”
 Hugh: That’s awesome. That sounds like a good summary statement. What do you think, Russ?
 Russell: Absolutely. What do we want people to know, feel, and do? It just comes back in so many ways, but that can’t be overemphasized because that is the whole kit and caboodle. If you’re not there, you will never reach the people you want to get to.
 Geo: Never. It’s easy to miss them if you don’t know what you’re looking for.
 Hugh: Geo Ropert, Ropert and Partners is your company. Thank you for sharing this information. I have learned a lot today. Russ, it’s given me some ideas for us to move SynerVision in another direction.
 Russell: There is a lot of information people need so they can be good clients. There is a bit of an art and science in the pro bono. Like Geo pointed out, it’s not for something you need yesterday. You have to be clear on what it is that you want out of that engagement. Even as a pro bono client, you have to in some ways behave like a paying client. That is another discussion. Geo, thanks for all the brilliant information you have provided. There is so much out there to take into consideration. But the main thought I want to leave people with is that you can’t afford not to talk about what you’re doing. You can do the best work in the world, but if nobody knows about it, nobody sends you a check.
 Geo: No. No, they do not. If you know any nonprofits that need some help in PR or marketing, give me a call. I can help out.
 Hugh: You will give them a free consultation, won’t you?
 Geo: Absolutely. The consultation is free. The work isn’t.
 Hugh: We’ll put your link in the notes. Geo, thank you so much.
 Geo: Thank you, Hugh, and thank you, Russ. It was great to be here.
 Russell: Thank you.
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        <![CDATA[<p>Nonprofit Marketing with Geo Ropert</p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> This is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis co-hosting this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. Hello, Russ.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Good happy Halloween. Good to see you both.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> As we are recording this, it is Halloween in 2017. You might be listening to this in another century. We are creating episodes for posterity. Russ, we have been on this journey for quite a while. Thank you for hanging in there and being my co-host.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s a pleasure. I meet so many interesting people, like Geo, who is here to talk to us today about marketing. And a lot of nonprofits don’t think they have to do that, but you have to get your message out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You spoiled the surprise. We were going to surprise them.</p> <p><strong>Geo Ropert:</strong> I might as well hang up now.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Geo Ropert, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here. I am certainly honored that you asked me to join you, and I am really looking forward to this today.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I looked at your resume, and you have been holding out on me. You haven’t told me all that good stuff. We generally start out asking people to talk about themselves. In a little snapshot, the things that are related to PR and marketing. Then after you talk about yourself, what’s your background in this really complicated, for those of us who don’t know it, what’s your background and what’s gotten you here? After you do that, distinguish between PR and marketing. I know people confuse marketing and sales, but they also confuse PR and marketing. They don’t know where sales fits. If you can sort that out. But first, give us a snapshot about Geo.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> I have 20+ years in the public relations and integrated marketing community. We’ll talk about that as you had asked. I am accredited in public relations, which means I hold a national certification that less than 10% of PR professionals throughout the country have. I have won awards for my work, and I have been- It really is my passion. I love to communicate. I love to help businesses and organizations share their message across platforms, everything from traditional to new digital and social. I work especially with businesses and nonprofits to really help them be able to tell their story and for them to be the ones that people pay attention to when they speak, when they produce content, when they get out there to their audiences.</p> <p>I have worked in the nonprofit field. I have probably a little more than 10 years working exclusively for nonprofits, both 501(c)3 and 501(c)6 organizations, so I’ve spent a lot of time really in the trenches with those communities and have learned a lot and have really been able to translate that knowledge to help out organizations, especially nonprofits. That is where my passion lies: helping those folks be able to engage their audiences and gain the support and the resources they need so that they can do the good work that they do.</p> <p>If you want to talk about public relations and marketing, while they are similar, they are very different in the sense that public relations really has to deal with the side of a business that is the brand. It’s the storytelling, it’s the reputation-building, it’s the work that is done to create buzz, if you will, to create information and knowledge. It’s meant to educate and inform audiences so that they can understand what a business is, what they stand for, their mission, their vision, their values, their culture—all those things are public relations.</p> <p>Marketing, on the other side, is a staff function that is really about the promotion of products and services that the company has. If you are talking about selling widgets or if you are talking about having your organization that helps feed hungry children or protects kids from danger, these are the things that marketing does. It’s getting out the word on those products and services. They work together intimately, but in most cases, people see that as different.</p> <p>I’ve been working in the realm where my belief is the industry has been changing to more or less meld those two together because it really is about communication, and the way we communicate today really blurs the lines sometimes. It is effective in both of its aspects.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Actually, you need to have a good public image or your marketing won’t be helpful.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> If your reputation is shot, you could have the best products in the world, but nobody will buy them.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> People also confuse sales and marketing. Sales is another animal. Do you want to give us a sound bite about what’s different about sales?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Sales is the process that marketing is geared to do, to make people aware of what those products and services are, the benefits they have for them. Then sales is the close. That is where all the process of engaging interesting, getting clients to pay attention and come to your website or make that phone call to your business, everything then is left to the folks in sales to close that deal.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are going to focus on the marketing piece. We have had other experts on this series over the years. Cheryl Snapp Conner owns a large PR agency in Salt Lake City; she was here several months ago and is very eloquent about her field of PR, doing press releases and getting that image out there. The niche that is marketing, that’s moving people toward understanding why they need goods and services—charities aren’t in business for selling things. I’m using the word “charity” instead of “nonprofit” for this conversation. Why would a charity need even think about marketing?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Because there are—let’s see how many there are—over a million public charities in the United States alone. Those are a lot of voices out there, each vying for the attention.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Four million. 501 somethings. Churches and government. There are a lot of variances.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> I’m sorry. I had a million public charities. You’re right about the four million. Everyone is clamoring for the attention, the pocketbooks of folks who can support their causes. As much as each of them are involved in very important and very worthwhile endeavors, there is a limited pie out there of funds and resources that are available. The ones who can tell their story the best, who can communicate what their audience is most effectively, are the ones who are going to succeed and be able to advance their causes where the others are basically struggling. I think we see more of the majority struggling than those we do being successful.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. There is a fallacy out there, and it is exposed in Dan Pallotta’s TED Talk, The way we think about charity is dead wrong, and he has a book to follow that up. The TED Talk says the fallacy is that nonprofits, he says charities, cannot spend money on marketing. That is taboo. I believe- Russell, we don’t agree with that, do we?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I disagree completely because a lot of people in nonprofits, especially if you are talking about a social worker or teacher, have difficulty talking about the value that their organization provides. It’s a value proposition. A lot of people look at it as bragging when in fact it’s just telling people that you are doing good work. Marketing is important.</p> <p>A thought just crossed my mind. I came up with a question because I know that reputation management and getting the word out there about what you’re doing are separate but melded together. I was wondering what Geo thought is the right balance between PR and marketing.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> I think if you are looking for a balance, you really want to integrate them both effectively. I don’t think you put one on top of the other in the sense that of course you have to have your brand identity established and visible and strong. People need to recognize it and know what you do, who you are, what you stand for, and what you do to benefit the community. That really is the telling of the story if you want to in PR.</p> <p>In marketing, it’s telling people exactly what you do, why it’s important that they support your cause. You say, “Well, we don’t have products or services.” Most do. They have some type of service. They provide some type, whether that be support or education or advocacy. All of those things really fall into the marketing side of it.</p> <p>What a lot of nonprofits- You’re right. They talk about marketing and PR and spending money on it as a taboo thing, that it’s not something they should do. I agree. It is completely the wrong idea to have because unless you are spending money on your voice and getting your message across to people, you are going to be one of the majority that are having a huge amount of trouble keeping your funding sources alive, keeping your organization alive. That is one of the problems I see.</p> <p>What I also see is that many nonprofits- I can’t tell you how many times a month I get approached by organizations that want to get support, but they are not able or willing to pay for it. They expect to have it for free, pro bono services. While I do believe in helping my community and I support an organization that I work with every year, sometimes intensely, unfortunately I have bills to pay. I have to be able to afford to keep the business running.</p> <p>Getting them to understand the value of PR and marketing, and marketing especially, is sometimes the hardest thing to do. Once they can really grasp that, and it comes from the leadership down, the executives, the board of directors, once they can understand that you put money into marketing is going to have a return on that investment and is going to grow the donor base, it’s going to grow the support base, and they can see that, then it starts to make sense to them, and they are more willing to invest in actual professional services and, if not, investing in the tools and software that are able to accomplish that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Geo, what’s an appropriate amount as far as a percentage? Is there any kind of benchmark? You mention something that triggered this. We use the word “nonprofit,” and we go into this scarcity thinking that we can’t pay for anything. We can’t pay good salaries, we can’t pay for services, we can’t allot money to marketing, we can’t spend money talking about the goods and services, the good that we do, the impact. That is what is going to drive sales. Sales is donations. Sales is for churches, synagogues, it’s evangelism. It’s growing your numbers in the 501(c)6s, the membership organizations. Why is it important? What is the impact of our work? We are telling a story.</p> <p>Go back to this. You started exploring about stories a while ago. Where does that fit? There is two questions in here. How do you figure out what’s an appropriate amount to designate in your budget to marketing? What kind of information do you- You can’t tell people everything, so you have a limited budget. If you grow the revenue, then you can grow that marketing budget in tandem with that. How do you decide what to market? How much to spend, and what is the story you are going to tell?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> According to the numbers I’ve seen out there, there was almost $400 billion given to charities last year alone. Of that, we would expect, as a business does, to spend a minimum of 10% at least on the marketing efforts. You could figure that is about $39 billion that would go out to help communicate that story, that message.</p> <p>That can fluctuate anywhere from on the low end to 5% on the high end to- Some of them are spending up to 15% if you look at charitable organizations and the nonprofit organizations, the 501(c)6s.</p> <p>What they do, the good ones, is they tell a consistent story that resonates. They have a mission. They focus on the mission in their campaigns, in their public relations and in their marketing campaigns, with a singular, strong message. You could have an organization. Maybe you do three or four different things, but your main mission needs to be conveyed and clear. What happens is oftentimes people say, Well, we do this, we do that, we help these folks, we help those folks. It confuses the message. There are millions of messages going out every day that we are being bombarded with. If a message from an organization comes across in three or four different ways, how are we going to be able to focus on that? It takes a minimum of seven times for somebody to see your name to recognize it, to see your message and recognize it. Unless they see that message seven times, maybe in a slightly altered way but still the same consistent message, the chances of traction are slim to none.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I have to think about that. What do you think, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> In terms of income, if people are spending money, they are going to want to know what I am getting back for this. How important is it to show a return on generating income? Is there a typical amount for nonprofits in terms of looking at return on investment with those dollars that they invest?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> I think what you do is you look at the 5-15% of your annual revenue as a baseline maybe to say, Okay, this is where we are going to start. What happens in nonprofits is they base their marketing revenue on those numbers, and if the numbers go down, so do their marketing efforts. Where I believe that you need to be consistent and strong and you have to have a budget set aside. It’s not overhead to me. It really isn’t considered an overhead expense like executive salaries and rent and those kinds of things. It is an expense that helps to generate revenue. If revenues start to decline and you cut way back on your marketing dollars, you might as well just expect those numbers continue to decline. Whereas I think good marketers and executives who understand their value of effective marketing are more apt to say, Okay, let’s put in a substantial and usable amount of revenue into our marketing efforts. If we continue to do that and our mission continues to be strong and delivered across the right platforms, we are going to grow our revenue, we are going to grow our support, we are going to get the things we need to get.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I saw some evidence—Russ, that’s a good question—during the last so-called recession that businesses cut way back on their marketing budgets, but the few that didn’t kept market share and actually increased market share during that recession. Russ, I’m sorry, I interrupted you there.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Just in your reply there, you hit on what I call the magic dirty buzz word, and that is overhead. People are in the frame of mind that anything that you spend beyond the actual delivery of those services is overhead and that you got to put the squeeze on that. You can’t have a huge overhead. Marketing and PR is important. When a corporation goes out and spends money on that, they applaud them. They go out and hire superstar marketing people and superstar executives to run the organization. They pay them good salaries, but they draw in huge amounts of money. Nobody ever questions that because they can see that value.</p> <p>When a nonprofit or social profit tries to do that, it becomes taboo. It leads to what they call overhead. I don’t think they are doing this, that marketing and PR among other things and fundraising are bad ways to spend that money. You have to have a good structure to have a good solid program. When it comes to marketing and PR with nonprofits, what are the biggest challenges that you see nonprofits having when it comes to actually taking it up, doing it, and doing it well?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> The thing I see is the lack of knowledge, the lack of experience, to do that job. Oftentimes, a lot of nonprofits will say, You are the reception today, and this afternoon, you are going to be our chief marketing officer. Very little knowledge of what it entails. This is a profession. This is something that people go to school for to get educated. Some of us have spent many hours a week, let alone throughout the year, honing our skills, growing our education to do that. That is one of the things.</p> <p>Another standing is the available vehicles to us for marketing. There are so many, but they have to be selectively chosen based on the type of audience that you have, the type of response that you want to get, and also basically the areas that you want to focus your attentions on. It’s one of those things where so often I see, and people have sat down with some folks in the last couple of weeks and they said, “Well, we want to market our agency. We want to market our organization.” I said, “What’s your budget?” “We don’t have one.” “Good luck.”</p> <p>As much as you can get something, you can get free press donated. Media is great about supporting causes, local newspapers, publications, digital sites that will do that, but you still got to pay for things like Facebook advertising, social media advertising. You have to pay for websites and development and maintenance of those. There are costs to the things that you print and your direct mail costs. If everybody would give it away, it’s wonderful, but I am also reminded that you get what you pay for. If you think you are going to get something free from these people, they will get it to you when they get it to you. They may not be there. They are probably not as deeply invested as somebody whom you pay, even if it is a modicum of money to at least value their services, their expertise. That is what I try to push people to understand. Spend a little money, and you can make a lot of money.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s not really cost; it’s an investment.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Going back to Russ’s question on ROI, we have the old- There is another way that comes up here: advertising. Is advertising part of marketing?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Yes, advertising is one of the vehicles we use to market. If you are going to spend money on advertising, that is part of your marketing budget. Return on investment, that is something that you want to set up with the organization. I think that’s part of the goal-setting strategy for any organization is: Okay, what are your revenue or support goals that we want to have this year? Then back those numbers out and say, Okay, we believe that we’re going to raise $3 million this year. We are going to spend $300,000 of that in marketing and PR services and software and vehicles and print and digital and creative costs and those kinds of things. It’s very clear.</p> <p>An organization that has a track record can easily look at their data and say, Okay, we spent this amount of money on Facebook this year, and that got us the best return on our investment. We went over to Instagram or YouTube, and those didn’t necessarily perform as well. We will allocate our resources where they work best. There are so many tools out there right now to be able to gauge what your efforts are doing. They are very measurable. We rely on them now. We can’t just walk into a client and say, “We have an ad or an article in your paper. It has a circulation of 200,000. We multiply that by 1.5, and that is your average viewer.” No, now we can actually measure who sees the ad, who responds to it, who interacts with it, and we can trace them all the way from initial interest through that final check being written or that volunteer sign-up being taken care of.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s really good. One of our sponsors at SynerVision is the company that prints our magazine <em>Nonprofit Professional Performance,</em> Wordsprint. Bill Gilmer has been on this show and on a panel that we had on PR a while back. His research is in the area of direct mail because he is a print house and a mail house. His statistics are very profound about when people get something in their hand. His research says it’s 30% the message, 30% the person, 30% a regular rhythm, and only 10% the appearance. He has years of documentation.</p> <p>The donations don’t only remain consistent with the donors, but they go up because people understand the impact of their money, the return on life, ROL. Their return on their investment is the return on people’s lives, the impact. He calls that top of mind marketing. What does that term mean to you? He backs it up with an email. Joe, you got a magazine yesterday, did you look on page four? That doubles the open rate. His research almost without exception is that the donors remain engaged and remain donors because we have done more than ask for money. We have told them the impact of the work. That is part of your message in PR and marketing. Go back to top of mind marketing. Are there other ways besides this really valuable way? That is Wordsprint.com. For more information, you can go there.</p> <p>Geo, top of mind marketing, what is that, and what are other ways you can do that?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Hugh, you mentioned one of the key things. People say direct mail and print advertising is dead. It is not. It is still one of the most effective ways to communicate, especially in the fundraising side for charitable organizations. Everybody has to go to their mailbox. Mail arrives every day. They look at that mail, and when that mail catches their eye, it is more likely to stay on the counter or on the table. It’s whereas our digital information that we share comes and goes in the blink of an eye. Unless you’re consistently putting that message out across the platforms that are available, they are great, and they do an enormously good job getting attention. Again, it’s fleeting. I am a big believer, especially in getting messages across that people will read the direct mail, look at it, remember it. It’s that visual imprint. It is great.</p> <p>What I always look at is a mix of marketing materials and methods in order to get the point across and to enforce it. If you see in the mail, and the next thing you know you have it on your website or you are looking on Facebook or one of your other social media sites and you see that message repeated again, that’s seven times. How many times do you see it before it finally clicks and you say to yourself, “That is an organization I want to support?” You are absolutely right on sharing the value of their investment. What is that return to them? You can do it visually so much more easily than any way, shape, or form when you have it right there in front of you. You have pictures and stories and words that convey that mission and vision.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I am going to toss it to Russ. He is the one who asks the really hard questions. Russ’s area, one of his areas of brilliance, is helping charities think about their funding options, how they get funded. Russ, relate it to what he was just bringing up and what we have been talking about. There is a relationship to getting more donors, keeping donors, raising donations through what we are talking about. I am going to toss it to you for some comments and questions if you will.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think this is part of what comes in when it comes to the fear of how much you spend. There are so many different channels out there that people are focused about which ones to use. The answer to that is it really depends on where your audience is. At my age, they like getting stuff in the mail; they can hold onto it. But if you are reaching out to younger people, they may be in social media, they may be on websites, they could be anywhere. I think if you tailored a channel to where your donors are coming from, you meet them where they are. It takes a little bit of homework to figure that out, but at that point, you can really target your dollars to where you want them to go. That is where people get overwhelmed. I think they should be working from their strengths and whatever works best. That may be direct mail and Facebook for some organizations; it may be Instagram and email if they have a younger audience. Talk a little bit about how you gauge that and how you help nonprofits figure out what the best mediums are for them.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> There is a lot of data out there on the demographics of every person on Earth right now. I like to say that with the analytics and data we have, we know what coffee you drink, when you wake up in the morning, what color pajamas you have, and what car you are driving to work. It’s all there. We have become a very sharing society that we basically give it away and let people know who we are, what we do, what we like, and what we don’t like.</p> <p>You were asking about what works. There is a 2016 Content Marketing Institute report on the nonprofits in America. Believe it or not, in-person events are still the largest and most effective way for nonprofits to get their message across and to gain supporters. That personal one-on-one touch-and-feel that people have in a personal interaction is still the most important, followed by illustrations and photos, e-newsletters, videos, social media content (interesting that it only ranks fifth out of the most effective tactics) followed up by case studies and those kinds of things, a lot of data and information and background information that people look for.</p> <p>It really is imperative that you have someone who understands how to read demographics, how to interpret those, and be able to take those and say, Okay, our group from 35-54 is mainly on this type of media or reads this type of publication or attends these functions. All of those have to be wrapped up. You have to get a real good understanding of who your audience is. That is the only way you are going to effectively market and spend your money. Again, you can throw that wide net out and put it out in a newspaper. It may have a circulation of 200,000, but only less than 1% of those people could be target audiences for you. You just wasted 99% of your budget right there to reach the 1% that is actually going to care.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There is a lot of data out there on that. It is really easy to get lost in the weeds. What would you say are the most effective marketing strategies organizations can use to grow their share of that donor base or other supporters like volunteers or board members or advisors?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Understand your market. Know what appeals to them. Know what their hot buttons are. Where do they have their most care? In business, we talk about the citizen brand, where you create the culture and a mission and a vision that reflects your audience. That is becoming an interesting thing to follow in the way that all organizations are operating is to say to their people: What is important to you? That is important to us. It really helps to create a stronger bond because people today want to know what is in it for me. How are you going to make my world better through your work? Even in a charitable organization, they are still saying that. How are you going to save the animals or save the rainforest, or how are you going to protect abused and neglected children? What is your culture going to do that is going to get me to want to write that check or volunteer my time and efforts?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Those are brilliant reasons for reaching out repeatedly because you don’t always have to have an ask. You can ask questions and find out what is important to them. You can take that language and recycle it and return it back to them in their solution.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Exactly. The three important things to do when you are communicating, especially in the public relations realm, is to inform, educate, and entertain. You are able to do all of those things even with a charitable organization because you inform them of your mission, you educate them and show them what their results are of their support, and it is okay to entertain, too, because not every message has to be, We are in a terrible situation. Our clients are destitute. Our planet is falling apart, whatever that may be. It’s also okay to take a lighter side, show how the organization reaches out in the community, show what some of the folks do in their daily lives, show behind the scenes of what this organization does in their daily work. Create that. Again, you want to create that personal feeling. You want the person who you are targeting to feel like those are the same people that I am, and I want to be with them. All three of those, if they are done properly and in the right percentages, you have an extremely effective message platform that works.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Live videos from your events where you see people having a good time. What could be more fun? People can say, “Hey, I want to go to the next party these guys throw.”</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Video is hands-down the most important thing that people see nowadays. It has the largest effect. As I am sure is well-known, we have less of an attention span than a goldfish of less than eight seconds. Text doesn’t do it. Photos are okay. But you put something on video, and that’s why Instagram is growing and Facebook is such a volume. Facebook Live is the go-to platform for people to put their messages out there and all the video capabilities that Facebook and YouTube and Vimeo and theses platforms have. They have realized the importance that video has in marketing and public relations efforts.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> So there is a lot of dynamics that come to mind. Russ, we have interviewed several people on this topic. It’s like the quote Williams said, “Music did not reveal all of its secrets to only one person.” We can take marketing/PR and substitute it in there. I am hearing some different things. What about you, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Every time I talk to somebody about this, I learn new stuff. There is a lot to grasp. There is a lot of approaches. Like anything else, different people resonate with different people at a different level.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I am sorry to interrupt you, but there is so much to cover that we can’t just cover it in one podcast. The other people had really valuable stuff; you’re not just contradicting them. You are filling in some of the cracks that we don’t have time to deal with. Russ asked earlier how we measure the effectiveness of your campaign. I had somebody we’re talking about. I wanted to introduce them to Bill Gilmer for this direct mail piece, which he is so successful at. They said, “Oh, I tried that last year, and it didn’t work.” I said, “You went to the gym one day and that didn’t work, either?” I stole that from Bill. Bill says flat-out, “You have to do this for two years four times a year in order to see tangible results.” We get in there and want to see success overnight. That is not reasonable, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> No, it isn’t. When we sit down with a client, I tell them that it’s going to take us six months to be able to honestly make an impact in what we’re going to be doing for you. We need six months’ minimum. A year is what we really like. Those efforts are going to take time to gather steam. Developing and distributing content takes time to get it out there, to use it in all its various forms. We are very clear. We can measure on a daily, weekly basis everything that you want to know. We can tell you what’s happening, but we can’t tell trends until we are able to see some data come in. I just started with a client, and we are doing Google AdWords. I think we’re going to have a great return. Can you tell us what we’re going to be doing as we go every week or so? Yes, we can, but we are going to be testing various messages. We are going to find out if that message resonated or if we changed a few phrases, that one worked better. Then we are going to work on that and test another one. Eventually, after a while, you have got the data to back up and say, “These key words work. These key phrases are what are getting people’s attention and are causing them to react and take action.” Anybody who wants it overnight is not going to get it. You really need to understand that because otherwise you are just spinning your wheels. You are throwing money at the next thing the next day. If one doesn’t work, we’ll put money here. No, let’s refine what we are doing here because this is the platform that our audience is on. Let’s make sure we work to create the messaging that is going to be effective.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You spoke about live video as a platform. You have spoken about direct mail. That’s a platform. Speak about some of the choices for platforms on digital marketing.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Digital is like the wild, wild West. There are over 242 social media sites, and those don’t include the dating sites. Just in social media alone, you have a plethora. Those are general social media, industry-specific, interest-specific, all kinds of platforms. Right now, the digital platforms that nonprofits and charitable organizations are using and that have the most effect is Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram, Google+, and Pinterest, in descending order. Those are the platforms that are available in a social media sense.</p> <p>You also have your website, which should be the hub of all of your marketing materials. All of your social media should direct back to your website. That has to be a very fluid and dynamic piece of work that is easy to navigate, easy to understand, clearly defines messaging, benefits, features, all of those things that any business and organization is going to want to put in front of folks.</p> <p>Then you have your digital platforms, your blogs and digital publications and those areas where you can use your message to get out articles, white papers. You can place ads within most digital publications that are attuned to your audience. They are all out there right now. As I said, you can really focus your marketing dollars where it’s going to be best and you will get the phrase return because the data on each of those platforms is very clear. You don’t have to guess about what’s going to happen once you’re there, as long as you understand that it’s the place that you’re supposed to be.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When I work with charities of all kinds, I suggest they have someone internal that has the communications hat on. When they hire a person like you to build out their marketing campaign or their donor management correspondence, there needs to be somebody that is focused on bringing in all the data to one point. Somebody like you can be more effective in helping the organization. I find so many people working in charities that are underfunded are overworked and stretched. Imagine without the right data you can’t be fully effective, can you?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> No, not at all. Nor would you expect to be. I wouldn’t want to walk in and be thrown into a situation where I wasn’t given the tools or data. If you are the receptionist in the morning and you are the marketing person in the afternoon, I consider that a waste of money. You might as well just break me a nice check and let me go play golf because that is about what you’re going to get out of that person. It’s nothing against them; it’s just they don’t know how to do it. When my firm comes in and works with a nonprofit, I bring a team of folks. I have the web designers, the writers, the social media experts, the AdWords experts, the graphic designers, whatever that organization is going to need. I am able to put the team together and only for what they’re going to ned. I am not keeping a full staff and having to pay salaries for people who aren’t working on that particular project to keep the company running, which I believe helps the nonprofits out because they get exactly what they need. It’s on time, great time, great service. That is what I think makes a difference. We get in there, and as I always look at it as a partnership, business or charitable organization. I call them partners. It’s not only for the partners I work with to produce, but it’s also the folks I work with because I want to be their partners in marketing and public relations and be a part of their success and help them to reach their goals. When I am doing that, I am as intimately involved in their organization as they are. I learn everything about it. I get data, I get history, I get nuances and rumors and innuendos and anything else they want to share that can help me to better understand how to operate so I can help them do what they really want to do, which is grow, succeed, and serve their communities.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, we are in the last part of our interview. I am going to toss it back to you for some comments and questions, if you will.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One thing that came to mind is that you do have a lot of these smaller shops that don’t have the staffing or funding. What kind of tools could someone like Hugh or I give to an organization that is in this situation that would empower them enough to gather enough information that you would actually be helpful to them?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> There are a lot of free and very inexpensive software platforms that you can use for data analysis, data gathering. Google Analytics is #1. You can go to your website and once you set up your Analytics code, you can see exactly what kind of traffic you are getting to your website, where it’s coming from, how long they’re there, what kind of pages they visit, so you can determine your strengths in messaging. Facebook Insights is another one where if you are putting out Facebook campaigns, you are getting data back on the users. There is plenty of remarketing and other tools that Facebook has that don’t cost you anything. It’s just the cost you are paying for placing your ads.</p> <p>A customer relationship management software program is critical for every organization, especially when you are talking about data and analytics. A couple that are great that I’ve used is HubSpot. There is a free version of it, which is not as robust as their full system, but it allows you to be able to capture names and email addresses and then also to share that with your email system, like MailChimp or Constant Contact. You have CRMs like SalesForce or Zoho. All have a cost to them, which you have to consider when you are putting your marketing budget together. The software platforms you are going to use to analyze your data. You have to keep all of these things in check and in mind and find the one that is going to work best for you.</p> <p>There are a ton of fundraising management tools that are online that can help you out. SalesForce, Raisers Edge, Donor Perfect. I like Salsa. It’s a really robust system that is fairly inexpensive, but it gives you the opportunity to manage your donors online and your messaging to them. A couple of free ones that I’ve seen work but have not tried yet are Donor Manager, Metrics, Donor Box, and Civic RM. Those are all free. They have different capabilities. You go online and can pull up a web search and say “Free fundraising software.” You will get a list of all of those that are there. There are a lot of great resources that compare them and show the pluses and minuses.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One of the things that comes to mind because a lot of it is sofware-driven. If you are a nonprofit charity, you can register on the Tech Soup platform, and you can get licenses for commercial software at a reduced rate. That is an important thing for nonprofits to do because you can spend a ton of money on software.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Companies do, but they are bringing in millions and millions of dollars, and that software is their life blood. I’s critical now. You can’t do business without knowing where your information is coming from and where your customers are coming from.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Amazing. There is a lot to know about this topic. I think we are going to wrap up here. Geo, we have covered a lot of the topics that we had thought about covering. Is there an area we haven’t asked you about that you want to give us some data in before we do a wrap?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> One of the things that we work on as we are working with clients is: What is important to you? The results are interesting. This comes back to, and I have to agree with what happened in the Content Marketing Institute survey in 2016. Engagement, brand awareness, and developing client loyalty are the top three things that content marketing and marketing efforts are going to do or the goal of those for an organization. They want to get their base engaged, they want to raise that brand awareness, and they want those folks to take that action, to join that organization, to be there not just for that one check, but to be there for five to ten years down the road. Look at when you are setting up your PR and marketing efforts, make sure you establish some very clear goals as to what you want to achieve from them. Getting your name out is great, but what happens when you do that? What then do you want to happen? How do you want in sequence your efforts to move forward? If you start with the brand exposure, how do you then make sure that that becomes an engagement effort, and then how does that translate to getting the folks to say, “You know what? I am going to find out more about the organization and write a check and sign up to help out.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s awesome. That sounds like a good summary statement. What do you think, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Absolutely. What do we want people to know, feel, and do? It just comes back in so many ways, but that can’t be overemphasized because that is the whole kit and caboodle. If you’re not there, you will never reach the people you want to get to.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Never. It’s easy to miss them if you don’t know what you’re looking for.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Geo Ropert, Ropert and Partners is your company. Thank you for sharing this information. I have learned a lot today. Russ, it’s given me some ideas for us to move SynerVision in another direction.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There is a lot of information people need so they can be good clients. There is a bit of an art and science in the pro bono. Like Geo pointed out, it’s not for something you need yesterday. You have to be clear on what it is that you want out of that engagement. Even as a pro bono client, you have to in some ways behave like a paying client. That is another discussion. Geo, thanks for all the brilliant information you have provided. There is so much out there to take into consideration. But the main thought I want to leave people with is that you can’t afford not to talk about what you’re doing. You can do the best work in the world, but if nobody knows about it, nobody sends you a check.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> No. No, they do not. If you know any nonprofits that need some help in PR or marketing, give me a call. I can help out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You will give them a free consultation, won’t you?</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Absolutely. The consultation is free. The work isn’t.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’ll put your link in the notes. Geo, thank you so much.</p> <p><strong>Geo:</strong> Thank you, Hugh, and thank you, Russ. It was great to be here.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Thank you.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Strategy for Charities: Dreams, Teams, and Funding Themes</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/strategy-for-charities-dreams-teams-and-funding-themes</link>
      <description>Dreams, Teams, and Funding Themes
 Danna Olivo Shares Her Secrets of Success Danna Olivo is a Business Growth Sequencing Strategist and CEO of MarketAtomy, LLC. Her passion is working with small first stage entrepreneurs to ensure that they start out on the right foot and stay on the path to financial freedom. Known as the Business Birthing Specialist, Danna understands the intricacies involved in starting and running a successful business. Her efforts extend beyond the initial strategic planning process on into the implementation and monitoring phase. As an intricate component ingrained into her client’s business structure, she works diligently to keep her client’s accountable and on track to fulfilling their success goals.
 A graduate of the University of Central Florida’s College of Business, Danna holds degrees in both Marketing and Management Information Systems (MIS). She brings more than 35 years of strategic planning experience in business, marketing and business development both nationally and internationally.
 Danna is not only a professional business growth strategist but has worked as an International Strategist within the country of Brazil, is a public speaker and #1 Best Selling Author on Amazon with “Success From The Heart” and “Journey To The Stage.” Her newest book “MarketAtomy: What To Expect When Expecting A Business” is now available through Amazon on Kindle.
 You can find out more about Danna Olivo at http://www.marketatomy.com
  
 Here's the Transcript
  
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings to the Nonprofit Exchange. We do this live every Tuesday at 2:00 EST. Today, Russ is with me as always. Russ, how are you today?
 Russell: Greetings. Happy Tuesday, everyone.
 Hugh: Russ is in Denver, and I’m in Virginia. I’m getting ready to move into a new home. Moving is one of my most favorite things. It’s right below setting myself on fire or teaching middle school. It’s in close competition, but I am moving this week. My life is full of excitement.
 Russ and I see each other at least once a week and talk in between. Thank you for being a faithful co-host in this series of interviews with thought leaders. We certainly have one that you and I both know. We are talking about some of the themes that we have talked about in the past, but we are on the verge of launching the third pillar of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We have a pillar that supports clergy and all the religious organizations, like churches and synagogues, and the para-church organizations. And we have a leg that is all these social benefit community charities; we call them nonprofits, but it is the other tax-exempt type of organizations. Now the third leg is for early-stage entrepreneurs. There is a lot of struggle with early-stage nonprofits and businesses around the topic of getting your grounding and getting your funding. Today’s guest is a dear friend of ours, Danna Olivo. Danna, welcome.
 Danna Olivo: Hi, Hugh. Hi, Russell.
 Hugh: Danna, you and I have known each other for a number of years. We participate in some activities together. You have actually spent a day at one of my live events. You were not at the one where Russ was a co-presenter, but you were at one where Shannon Gronich was a co-presenter. You’re familiar with the methodology of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. I’m familiar in concept with the brilliant work you do. You came to me a couple weeks ago and said, “Hugh,” and you came with another friend of ours who is a funding expert, “let’s build a system, a program for those people early-stage who are struggling.” We are talking about the future now. This is what’s going to happen under the umbrella of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. Danna, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange.
 Danna: Thank you, Hugh. I am real excited about this new program that we’re talking about launching. You know as well as I do that there is a gap out in the marketplace that is just not being met. And we really need to touch on that and help them. We make it so easy for entrepreneurs to start a business here in the U.S, but we don’t make it easy for them to grow a business in the United States.
 Hugh: They can start a business, but they lack the- We can teach them how to drive a car, but they need to put gas in it so it runs. That is the world of funding. Before we dig in, we are going to keep people in suspense for a minute. Before we dig into the topics for today, give our listeners some background about you. What’s your superwoman power? What’s brought you here? You could probably talk the whole podcast about your experiences. But capsule what’s brought you here and your primary passion for what we’re doing together.
 Danna: My company’s name is MarketAtomy; it’s marketing anatomy. I have had so many clients that were coming to me that were new entrepreneurs, and they had a good product or service they had started their business on. But what happened was they got into business and there were no customers coming through the door. They couldn’t figure out how to bring those customers through the door. In an effort to teach them the infrastructure that needed to be in place around that product or service is where MarketAtomy was born. The way I do that is by explaining to them graphically through the human body that the heart of your business is your why. Why are your customers going to come to you? Why are your patrons going to visit you over the competition? The brain is your how. That is your structure. That is your systems, the methodologies, everything that runs the business. But in the human body, can the heart operate without the brain? And vice versa? No. You need both the heart and the brain in order to grow your business and bring those customers through the door by pushing your message out through the veins of the body to your market, which is the human body. It’s a real simple concept. My vision for MarketAtomy is to teach this to every single entrepreneur out there wanting to start their business. Ultimately, make a dent in the number of failed businesses out there in the world.
 Hugh: I want to highlight what you’re saying and move it into the nonprofit sector. We teach nonprofits (we’re using the word because people understand it), we teach tax-exempt charities how to install business principles in their organization because it’s truly a tax-exempt business. We have more rules from the IRS for how we manage money. Basically, we have to create profit to fund the work that we’re doing. We need to attract those customers or stakeholders or donors or volunteers. There is not a whole lot of difference in how we attract those. How about you?
 Danna: No. there isn’t. For the most part, you hear about nonprofits always trying to raise funds, and they are going to the for-profit corporations to help them through donations and things like that. What about the for-profit side? Is there a way, or there is a way, where they can rely on nonprofits that are going to help them build credibility in their company? Reach out and expand their market. There is a synergy there between the nonprofits and the for-profits by partnering, and that’s what we call cause marketing.
 Hugh: Yeah, absolutely. I am going to use the words “business” and “charity” because it’s simpler for my brain not to have so many “p” words in there.
 Danna: Business and charity works good with me.
 Hugh: I want to cut through the chatter and get down to the brass tack. You’ve done a brilliant thing like we’ve done a brilliant thing. We have put synergy and vision together and got SynerVision, which is the synergy of the common vision. You put market anatomy together, and that comes up with a new concept. Plus you can go get a URL nobody has.
 Danna: That’s true. Got it. Done it.
 Hugh: I want to set the context for what we’re going to talk about later. I want to delve into some of your expertise. People tell us they learn important things they can utilize day to day in their charities. Our primary listening audience are those people who are executive directors or clergy, and they are trying to make their way through all this stuff they don’t understand. We want them to understand some business principles. People tell us if there is some very useful information. We have tens of thousands of people who view these videos and listen to the podcast. Knowing you, you will give us some nuggets for the interview. We are launching a program underneath SynerVision Leadership Foundation for early-stage entrepreneurs, whether they are running a business or a charity, to get that strategy and to have access to early-stage funding, which is a trap for a lot of people. They get stuck right there. We will talk about that later on in the interview.
 As we start this, I have SynerVision International, which is a business. I work with business leaders. I have SynerVision Leadership Foundation, which is a 501(c)3 charity. There has to be a clear line as far as how the cash flows from one to the other; there are strict rules. There is tax rules for everybody, but there is more strict rules with a charity. Russ knows about this. He has had years with the IRS. We attempt to stay out of prison and not get in trouble and pay penalties because we try to uphold those rules. They are there for a really good reason. We can attract funding that is philanthropic funding, but there are eight streams of revenue there. There are a lot of ways we can attract funding.
 You work with people in a business and a charity. Sometimes you have people that have both like me. You started talking a little bit about the two of those working together. What else would you like to share about how somebody could have an entity, two totally separate entities, two checking accounts, two different leaderships—you have to have a board with a charity. Just because you founded it doesn’t mean you get to say anything. You have to have real clear principles because the board is in charge of governance and the funding piece, the disbursement, the financial accountability. If people have both, you advocate to people to have both. If so, how do you manage that?
 Danna: First of all, yes, whether you are a business or a charity, I think you should have a board of directors. On the business side, it could be an advisory board, depending on where you’re going. Yes, you need somebody that is holding you accountable to what your culture is, what your vision is, what your mission is. It’s the same thing on the charity side. If you have a nonprofit and a business, I would say it would be beneficial to have two different boards because there is two different mindsets going there.
 Hugh: Let’s let the expert weigh in. Russ, we’re getting in your territory here. Do you want to weigh in here?
 Russell: Good to see everyone. Having separate accountability structures is pretty critical because in essence you have different things that you’re doing. One of the terms by the way that I have seen is lack of social profit entities. That might be better terminology to talk about what you’re doing.
 Structurally, you need to keep things separate because if you get into a situation where your profit-making business has unrelated activity going on and the nonprofit is conceived as bringing in revenue from activity that is not related to its primary cause, you could create a taxable income situation. You don’t want to do that. You definitely don’t want to- The whole purpose of having a nonprofit is not paying tax. That is a big part of it.
 Danna: I think the other thing to keep in mind- The most critical thing to think about is whether you have both a nonprofit and a for-profit arm, there are two separate businesses. You have to operate them as two separate businesses. They have their own licenses. Everything is operated separately. For that reason, I would say, you do need two boards.
 Hugh: We talk about an arm and an arm, but really they are two distinctly different entities. What Russ was referring to is IRS has this thing called unrelated business income. If you are bringing in lots of money and it’s not related to your mission, then that is really taxable income, no matter if it’s a business or a charity. You could argue that I would rather pay tax on more money, but you want to keep your accounting really clean and keep really good records. There is some synergies between the two. There is lots of examples in the marketplace where people do business work here, but then they give away or have a greatly reduced price for those charities. For instance, Russ and I work with organizations through SynerVision Leadership Foundation either for free through opportunities or at a drastically reduced cost because that is the philanthropic calling for SynerVision. We offer people who can’t afford it goods and services, and that is why we are tax-exempt. On the business side, I work with business leaders who jolly well have the income and should be paying for it. They get value for that.
 Let’s talk about some of your background. What would you say are your areas of expertise? You have used the word “strategist” and “business plan.” We use business plans.
 Danna: I call it the life of hard knocks. Believe me. I’ve got my degrees, I’ve got this, I’ve got that, but I’m sorry. It’s life. It’s life experience that has taught me a great deal of what I know. It comes out in the way that I talk and the way that I teach. I don’t teach at a level of a professor or anything like that. I am right there at the level of the entrepreneur, and I think that’s what benefits me.
 I’ve had two failed businesses. I’ll be up front. This is my third business, and it’s a success. I’m glad. But we are still growing it. Through those two failed businesses, I learned very early on what I was missing, which is what I’m bringing to the table now. I did not have that business experience. Even though I was a marketer, I did not have that strategic experience on how to develop a strategy to take a product to market, to take a business to market. I did not have those. I just jumped right in, which is what a lot of business owners do.
 They have a good product or service. They jump into business, and before they know it, they have robbed themselves of their 401k, they have mortgaged their homes to the hilt, they have exhausted their savings, and now they are continuously putting money into a sinking ship, so to say, only because they don’t have that knowledge base. They don’t have the skills. Short of going back to school, which is what I did for four years and got my degrees, short of going back to school, they really have no other options. They have linda.com. They have other e-learning academies out there, but if you don’t know where to start, if you don’t know what questions to be asking, they’re not going to help you. I am introducing the MarketAtomy e-learning environment at the end of this year, and it will have the actual structure just like going back to school. If you want to learn about doing a market analysis, you have to know who your customer is, who your competitors are in order to do it. They will have to go and make sure they understand that. That is what we are trying to do.
 Hugh: That is what we are going to do.
 Danna: Yes, exactly. Oh yes. We are, Hugh. Okay. I am so glad I have you in my corner now.
 Hugh: You got me cornered, didn’t you say. You could say that same thing about people starting charities. I have met people that have exhausted all their money. I have one yesterday that put a lot of money into the charity because they believe in it. I put money into my charity.
 Danna: I’ve done it.
 Hugh: It’s going the wrong way, and I’m not taking money out. I don’t take a salary form SynerVision. It’s a concept that I’ve rallied a lot of people around. We are moving into phase two of development, which is 2018 is going to be a substantial year for the work we are doing. What you don’t yet know is that the gentleman on the other end of this call, the other host, has some good programs that will be valuable to you as well around funding. He is an expert in a number of areas. He is more than a pretty-looking guy; he is smart.
 Danna: That’s great. I’m telling you, I need all the help. I will be the first one to tell you I have big, big visions, just like you, Hugh. But I can’t implement them, and I need those people in my corner, which is why I reached out to you and Money Miners. It’s why I reach out and surround myself with those experts to make my vision a reality.
 Hugh: Russ, did you capture that? Number one thing in leadership is to delegate, to bring people on your team. What do you think of that?
 Russell: I think that’s the way to go. At least, that’s what we have been telling people. We drink our own Kool-Aid. If we’re not drinking the Kool-Aid, then we are not going to get anybody else to do it.
 Danna: My brain is too small to absorb everything, I’m sorry.
 Hugh: My vision to you is that you have a big brain and a big heart and lots of really good content. You have great passion for what you do. What we preach in SynerVision, and you just did it, too, is we can do more if we run together. Down in your neck of the woods there was a NASCAR race in Daytona. When they draft, they go faster, and they use less fuel. Both cars. Three cars. It’s like a train. You can be much more efficient. We are creating our own draft here. You didn’t know I was a redneck and a race fan.
 Danna: My daughter is a big redneck race fan. I hear it all.
 Hugh: That’s me. We’re creating this vortex of energy. Focusing on the road ahead. Talk about some of your programs that you already have that you offer people and how you are going to repurpose those for business and for charities.
 Danna: I mentioned the e-learning academy that we are developing. We are beta-launching at the end of December. That will fill that self-help avenue that needs to be filled. Then there is still do-it-with-you services because we are a firm believer that you do it with your business owners than for. They need to understand.
 There are two areas that I have found with the services that I offer where my clients struggle the most. One is clarity. Vision clarity, market clarity, all of that. I have introduced a five-stage clarification process. It’s mind-mapping. I will actually take them and clarify all of the components and find those gaps that they are missing.
 The other area of focus that I have found is even more prevalent is the financing side and funding side. Hugh, you and I know from going to CEO Space there are a lot of business owners that go in thinking that they can just pull together their business plans and just go and present before investors. But what they don’t realize is the amount of work that has to go into these packages. Not only that, but they also need to be answering the questions these investors ask. They are not putting themselves in the minds of the investors. That is the other side that we are helping them with by first educating them on the front end and getting their companies credit-worthy so that they can go for these larger dollars on the back end to help them grow.
 Hugh: That’s really critical. You get your own house in shape. Russ, what are you hearing over there? What’s brewing in your mind?
 Russell: What’s brewing in my mind is getting that message out there of what value you are bringing, the problem you solve. You got to do it in the language of people who are writing the checks. It’s language. If you don’t have the right language or you are talking to the wrong people, this is a component that has been challenging over the years for me. I have found myself a lot of times talking to the wrong people. You really have to have tools in place to measure what you’re doing. What people measure, and this is what makes social profit so maddening, because you do have dollars and cents, but there are other things that are important to people. It’s finding out and having systems to go find out what’s important to people so that you can deliver that. It’s really asking questions and tapping into their own genius. A lot of these have genius under their own roof that they’re not leveraging. That’s another story with over- and under-functioning leaders. That’s another path that we’re not going to go down today.
 Danna: You’re absolutely right. I know I’m preaching to the choir here. I spent six years in Albuquerque, and I was working in the children’s department of Hoffmantown, one of the largest churches in the United States. Charles Lowry was the pastor there. Pastor Charles had a business side to the business as well, where he had a men’s group, and he would travel the country and teach men entrepreneurs the concept of business in the Christian sense of the word. Where I came out of this is understanding that even in a church environment, it’s a business. It needs to be run like a business. I got that from Hoffmantown. You have all of these smaller churches that crop up, and their memberships, their patrons are giving their dollars to these churches that don’t have a procedure, a system in place. They are not being good stewards of the dollars that are being brought into the church. Those are the kind of things that we need to teach.
 Hugh: To be fair with our listeners, we are in concept stage with this. But we all see a huge importance. We are going to resources. Danna, this dovetails with what Russ and I have been working on with some of the other thought leaders you know in creating a portal with both live and virtual events. It’s going to be initially under the umbrella of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, and we will go after some philanthropic funding for that. We’re actually going to put our money where our mouth is basically. People may be listening to this podcast way into another year. If you’re listening to this podcast in 2018, you will see this launch. If you go to synervisionleadership.org, there will certainly be a section on the site that talks about this collaborative entity. We have kicked around names. Let’s leave that for later. We’ll name it something special, but it will be a project right now. It’s a tax-exempt project to empower early-stage thought leaders who really can’t afford it.
 Danna, in the communities where we do the work, it’s part of reemploying the work force. Reactivating the military, there are 49,000 homeless vets, and there are a whole lot in homes who are wandering around. There are people who have come out of prison and need a leg up. There are small churches and charities that don’t have the vision you just talked about. Part of what we are going to have to do is narrow down our first target. There is plenty of work. No matter if we started in Orlando, Denver, or Virginia, it doesn’t matter, we could have plenty of work if people were willing.
 Let’s talk about that piece for a minute. I would like Russ to weigh in, too. Danna, when you see a charity or a small business and there is really a lot missing, what is the biggest barrier to getting that message across? Is it their own lack of self-awareness? What is the barrier for them not coming forward and being open to receiving the assistance that you offer?
 Danna: I will put into context. You and I met during CEO Space with a certain gentleman that I had put you in touch with. Great ideas. They always have great ideas, and their heart is there. But first of all, they approach it unprofessionally in the sense that they are not protecting themselves. This was the first thing I identified with this gentleman. He is already getting sponsorship dollars and things like that from the public and the community, but he’s not protecting his organization. As those funds come in, they’re not being funneled correctly or monitor correctly. The first thing I find out is they jump in without a plan for protecting or being good stewards of the dollars that are coming into the organization.
 I think the other thing is they jump in because they don’t have the funding and they’re wearing way too many hats, so the project never really gets off the ground because they’re thinking they have to do it all themselves. This is in business; this isn’t just nonprofits and charity work. They think they have to do it all themselves to save money, but in actuality, energy is money. If they are spending all their energy doing a whole crapload of little things, they’re not getting anything done. They’re not making money. They’re not able to get what they need. I think the first thing that I would say that- it’s a matter of we have to clarify. What is that vision? What is the strategy to reaching that end vision? At the same time, showing them that you have a huge responsibility as a charity, as a nonprofit, you have a huge responsibility because it’s not just your money that you’re using and that you have to hold accountable. You want to make sure that you are able to report back to your donors how you’ve managed their money.
 Hugh: In case of a grant, it’s crucial. You won’t get another grant. They might ask for the money back if you have not demonstrated the proper fiduciary oversight and good stewardship, as you put it, which is a really good term.
 Danna: That’s why what you bring, Hugh, on the strategy side for nonprofits is just amazing. They really need this. There are so many people with such big hearts, but they don’t know how to do this.
 Hugh: Russ, you heard it right here. I’m amazing.
 Russell: I have been trying to tell him that for quite a while. Now I’m glad he hasn’t gone to that.
 Danna: We’ll keep him grounded, but we can always lift him up.
 Russell: All of us behind the scenes know all about it. In looking at and addressing that question, there are a number of things that might prevent people from actually doing something different. Sometimes it’s resource-based. Other times, it’s people that I’ve come across that are doing things that have been in the leadership role. They look at things, and they’re not comfortable getting outside of what they’re used to doing. Maybe looking at what they need from a person side, from a human capital type. This is a big thing because when investors or funders or donors of any type write you a check, they’re betting on your team, not necessarily just on you. If people are unable or don’t have the right collaborative partners, or they don’t have people that are willing to collaborate, they become starved for people to actually implement. Ideas are great, but it’s in that implementation that people actually need support. They may not know they need that support, or they may not feel like they have a trusted source for that support.
 Danna: Exactly. One of the other things is, and I’m so glad I have you in my corner, Hugh, is I learned the other day: The word “foundation,” so many nonprofits will set up a foundation but they don’t realize the legal implications of having a foundation and having the money from that foundation be designated to other charities rather than just their own.
 Hugh: In our case, it’s in-kind services. A dollar goes to SynerVision, it goes to other charities in the form of in-kind support, like those of us on this call. It’s money in a different form.
 Danna: That was just a lesson I learned this week.
 Hugh: Russ, the example that she used, without giving names, it’s okay if he’s listening. It’s a funny story. A colleague of mine, we were talking about CEO Space. It’s a business growth conference that all of us met at.
 Danna: A collaborative environment, yeah.
 Hugh: Teaching cooperative capitalism. We take it a step up in collaboration. We all know that it works. A friend of mine, Ed from there, we got with Ken Courtright and talked about… It was actually David. They’ve both been on this podcast. David and I got with Ken for some advice on critiquing a thing we were launching. Next thing I know, without names, he is talking about us on his podcast. He used Ed’s name because Ed had some sage advice, as he always does. I’m honored when somebody says, This is a guy, and this is what they need, and this is our conversation. I knew it was me, but he protected my identity.
 The person you’re talking about has a huge vision. They’re bought in 100%. They have passion for it, and they’re going for it, no matter what. It’s a classic case of somebody getting the cart before the horse. They’re jumping in and not having the systems in place. Russ, there are some dangers from the auditing side, from the tax side of not having the records and not having a board that manages the cash flow. Are there some dangers people need to look out for as we are early-stage putting good systems in place from your standpoint in your years working with the Internal Revenue Service?
 Russell: You definitely want to have good internal controls. How does money flow in and out? Who tracks the money? Who actually handles it? Who tracks it? The people that handle it and the people that are tracking it should be different. When you are talking about large amounts of money and large purchases, you need solid fiscal policies to determine how purchases are made. There are a lot of opportunities for funds to walk out of the door unbeknownst to the management if you don’t have very stringent internal controls in place. Separation of duties, that’s always a big one. If you’re dealing with government monies, you need to be aware of different things that you need to do to comply, especially federal monies under the Office of Management and Budget. There are a lot of pitfalls you can fall into. Of course, we already talked about unrelated business revenue. There are endless places you could end up stepping on a landmine from a tax perspective because the code is so complicated. I think that with a charity, one thing that is often overlooked is whether or not you are registered to collect donations or what you’re registered to collect. Are you registered in all places that you’re actually going to receive funds? That’s one that flies under the radar frequently.
 Hugh: Those are good words. Russ and I have seen this, and I’m sure you have seen that people think because they have a good product on the business side or really good intentions on the other side, money is going to jump their way in the bank. It doesn’t happen that way.
 Danna: No, I’ll tell you a perfect example. I was at a conference three weeks ago. We were in a mastermind session. We were talking about the financing side. When the question came up, two of the individuals, they were new entrepreneurs, said, “I’m incorporated. I don’t need to use my personal credit because now I am protected under the veil of incorporation.” My explanation to them is: That is absolutely true. You are protected. But consider it this way. Your LLC or corporation that you set up is another individual. It’s an individual that has absolutely no credit. You are wanting to launch your business and be able to get bank credit and financing and things like that. If you have no credit, chances are you’re not going to get any financing. That’s where you need to bring in your personal financing, your personal credit, to kick-start your business and then at a later date, you can take yourself off of that and everything else is put into the corporate veil. But you do need your personal credit, which is where we run into issues.
 Hugh: We want to be careful with charities. They don’t want to put anything in there of theirs because you can’t get it back out. We want to create a firewall there. But you speak a really good track to lay down here. We must have personal disciplines with our leadership, with our funding, and with our behaviors. If we are going to be effective leaders, we got to get our own house in order as well.
 Danna: That’s exactly it. That’s part of what we are going to be doing with this summit.
 Hugh: Great. This is part one of a two-part conversation. Part two will be early in 2018 that we will do a formal announcement with the tracks and the programs. We do see a need. What I will create is a forum of SynerVision, an information forum, where you and I will collaborate on the questions. People can come and weigh in on their top issues. If they are starting a small business or a religious institution or community charity or a cause-based organization, any of those tax-exempt, or membership organization, 501(c)6, if they are starting one of those entities, what do they think their biggest needs are? We will have people in the conversation.
 I’m envisioning—and I didn’t check this out with you, but I am going to blurt it out anyway. I’m envisioning a combination of things. The online learning, but also some live webinars. I am also envisioning some group processes. I find that when I have people, especially at a place we talked about, CEO Space—Danna, you saw it and Russell, you saw it on the SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium—when I am helping one person think through their issues, other people are listening, and everybody is learning from that example. There is group learning that we haven’t talked about, but I think you and I have had similar experiences in that area. What are your thoughts on that?
 Danna: I definitely agree. Masterminding is what we’re talking about here. When you think about it, it’s definitely one of the hot topics right now. That is one of the best ways to learn from other successful thought leaders. I know that’s how I’ve learned. We’ve got some mutual friends who are very big thought leaders, and they are holding their own masterminds. Don Ward is one of them. We can’t help but learn from others.
 Hugh: Absolutely.
 Danna: We can’t help but learn from others. Why reinvent the wheel and struggle if there are people out there willing to give us this help that we need? That is exactly what CEO Space is. You go there in a collaborative environment and you get the information you need. I just came off of Women’s Prosperity Network, which is a nation-wide organization. This is another one that is very collaborative, what they call cooperative, I think. Women, more and more women are starting businesses. This is a very fast-moving market right now.
 Hugh: My wife and I took some time over the weekend and went down the route to Staunton in Virginia. It’s a really well-kept downtown, both in character and architecture. People were downtown. Business after business was young, female entrepreneurs. I just rejoiced in that. Everyone was a niche, and it was creative, and there was passion behind it. We are in the women’s era. It’s time to leave the old white guys behind. We messed it up; it’s time for a new era.
 Danna: It’s amazing how many men have come in and joined the WPN, the Women’s Prosperity Network, because they like that interaction with the women. They like that comradery. I grew up in the architectural/engineering/construction market. In that market, I spent 35 years. Everything was so closely held to the chest. Don’t say this, don’t say that. We don’t want the competition to hear this. I just kept telling them, “Guys, get over it. They already know what’s going on. Get over it. Don’t be afraid. Just stay a step ahead of them.” Women just have a way of cooperating and helping and lifting each other up. If more and more people did that, we would be a lot farther along than where we are right now.
 Hugh: We can make up for lost time. I totally agree with you. Women are very collaborative. At this point in history of recording, it’s time for the small business sector and the charity sector to set a new bar. We have conflict in the government and with football of all places, and people are divided over common issues where we ought to be united for those. We will not go into politics today.
 Danna: Thank you.
 Hugh: There is another channel and example that we are called to be. I want to do a Round Robin here. I want to start with Russ because we need to give the better-looking guy some attention, some airtime. Russ always has these great sound bites, but he has also got some really good contributions. When he speaks, people listen. Russ, two things. Do you have some comments about what Danna has brought up or questions for her? Then tell us about your next live event for your charity work and your program for funding that you have. First with Danna, and then talk about the two things that you have, or others you want to share.
 Russell: I think that everything is relationship-based. This is the thing that we are coming around to. It’s all about relationships. The way that men operate, we’re more linear in our thought process and more results-oriented. Women are more relationship-based. What we’re finding out is that if you want to build partnerships and joint ventures, you are going to have people that resonate with you. If you’re going to get people to collaborate with you in any project, it’s all about relationships. You have to have good relationships. People aren’t just looking for the fast buck, the quick transaction. They’re not going there. That’s not going to work for people. It’s all about relationships. We really need to change that.
 The other thing is in looking at churches, I have been working with my own envisioning project. Whatever we’re doing, the key is to raise our level of consciousness. This is what we’re finding out with today’s environment. We’re shouting at each other. We’re at a point in time where if we are going to succeed, it doesn’t matter what area you’re talking about. If you’re talking about your spiritual or economic situation, your business, we have to raise our level of consciousness to be more effective, to help more people. That’s my view on that.
 As for right now, I am working on some new material with a group called Algorithms for Success. I’ve done some training with them. We’re actually strategizing on some of my online programs. I am working on different modulized programs for fundraising and board development. We’re working on rolling out a series of things for 2018 as well as the book Four Steps to Building a High-Performance Nonprofit. I have been working on that for a while; I have not gotten all the interviews I want, but we are going to be launching that online program that I am in the process of revising. That is taking me through the fundamental steps of building a strategy. It’s a 22-point strategy framework that Hugh and David Gruder actually developed a success map.
 As far as questions for you, what benefits do you think could be realized from cross-sector partnerships? What are the big wins you see businesses getting through this collaboration? What are some of the wins for the nonprofits as well?
 Danna: Wow. The reason I reached out to Hugh for this program that we’re talking about is because one of the benefits is with the target market that I go after, small businesses that are generally under $500,000 annual revenue or less, a lot of times they can’t afford my services. Much to the chagrin of my husband, I would love to give my services away. But his comment is, “Honey, I’m sorry, but we gotta make money. I don’t want to be working at a j-o-b all my life.”
 It’s two-sided. In an effort to find a way for them to be able to afford the services that they need, there is grant money out there. That’s what we want to go after. I’m not familiar with nonprofits, and I know that I need a nonprofit. That’s why I reached out to Hugh Ballou. I knew I needed a nonprofit leg to help on the sponsorship side so we could go for sponsorship dollars for these events we are doing, and also for the grant money to help those business owners that qualify to get the education and the resources that they need. That is one of the reasons where I see for-profits and nonprofits can coordinate.
 The other thing is by businesses partnering with nonprofits, you get that credibility factor. By building in that credibility factor, your clients look at a higher standard for you. Not necessarily at a higher standard, but they become advocates because they know you’re doing good for the community. You’re doing good for society, and they want to promote you because of that. So you get the credibility aspect. You get the market outreach. You get the dollars. There is so much value and benefit that comes from a business partnering with a nonprofit. You have to figure out how to make that work and not try and do it all yourself.
 Russell: That’s critical.
 Hugh: Russ, you’re so right. Let’s capture that. What I find over and over again is we help small business owners, especially solopreneurs, learn how to do things and then try to bring in team members. With a charity, it’s imperative that you start with a team. That’s the biggest problem leaders have in the charity/church world. The leader wants to do it all, but really you must engage the board for governance, for fiduciary oversight, and for support, their arms and legs. Lots of really good stuff here.
 We are coming to the last stretch of our time here. Danna, we got a lot more to talk about. We need to do some heavy lifting. Right now, you are waiting for me to get a document back to you. I am starting to get a clearer vision of the potential. Our problem is going to be to scale it to what we can handle to begin with. I know the energy field here is really good.
 Russ, where do people go for your stuff that you talked about? Your book and your online program, your website. Where do people go to find that?
 Russell: For the four steps to building a high-performance nonprofit, you go to bit.ly/fourstepshpnpo. I will drop that in the chat box so that people can see it. If you’d like to have a talk with me, I do discovery sessions with folks. You can go to bit.ly/bookruss to get on my calendar, and we will have a discovery session about whatever concerns you. I am in the process of having people rebuild my website, so I’ll have free offerings. I have a donor series and some board series things that people will be able to tap into once my website rebuild is done. I’m working on some other courses and writing articles. All of that stuff will be available to everyone out there.
 Hugh: I want to know when you sleep. Do you sleep?
 Russell: I sleep quite a bit, maybe more than I should. I’m finding as more time passes by, I sleep a little bit more. The real opportunity, I think, in this is to get people talking to one another.
 This thought crossed my mind. I was thinking of asking Danna: What is the high point, the one single thought that needs to be conveyed to people on both sides, for-profit and nonprofit? What would you say is the single thread that needs to run through their minds when they are debating about whether or not they should collaborate?
 Hugh: I’m going to let her think about that a minute. That’s a great question. You took the words right out of my mouth. Danna, think about that for a minute.
 We need to think about profit in our charities. That is the gas that is going to help us fully achieve our mission and vision. Thenonprofitexchange.org is the place you can view this video a few hours after we stop here. I will put the links for Russell’s website and Danna’s website. You will already be on the SynerVision website when you go to thenonprofitexchange.org. That will take you to SynerVision for this Tuesday program.
 Danna, we are going to let you close us out with Russell’s question that you have been pondering on. Your website is…
 Danna: Marketatomy.com. It is also being revised, so there may be a little bit of Greek in there right now. Just ignore it.
 Hugh: We have to stop here. Danna, will you leave that closing thought for us?
 Danna: Russell, correct me if I’m wrong. You sked me what is the one thing that should be considered when thinking about collaborating with a nonprofit or a for-profit. First, you need to be clear in your messaging. You need to be clear in what you want so that you can communicate it clearly, and then also synergy. For instance, me teaming with Hugh, he is a strategist. We have the same processes and things like that, so that creates that synergy. Does that answer your question?
 Russell: That does. Synergy is all about synergy and alignment.
 Danna: Alignment, yep.
 Hugh: That was my inspiration for combining vision and synergy. It’s the synergy we get from the common vision, which is our trademark. Danna Olivo from Orlando, Florida, thank you for sharing your wisdom and your time. Russell, thank you for your friendship and support. Thank you both for being here.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 29 Oct 2017 21:57:34 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/807c4aa8-b329-11eb-9f0f-9faa18612844/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Danna Olivo</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Dreams, Teams, and Funding Themes
 Danna Olivo Shares Her Secrets of Success Danna Olivo is a Business Growth Sequencing Strategist and CEO of MarketAtomy, LLC. Her passion is working with small first stage entrepreneurs to ensure that they start out on the right foot and stay on the path to financial freedom. Known as the Business Birthing Specialist, Danna understands the intricacies involved in starting and running a successful business. Her efforts extend beyond the initial strategic planning process on into the implementation and monitoring phase. As an intricate component ingrained into her client’s business structure, she works diligently to keep her client’s accountable and on track to fulfilling their success goals.
 A graduate of the University of Central Florida’s College of Business, Danna holds degrees in both Marketing and Management Information Systems (MIS). She brings more than 35 years of strategic planning experience in business, marketing and business development both nationally and internationally.
 Danna is not only a professional business growth strategist but has worked as an International Strategist within the country of Brazil, is a public speaker and #1 Best Selling Author on Amazon with “Success From The Heart” and “Journey To The Stage.” Her newest book “MarketAtomy: What To Expect When Expecting A Business” is now available through Amazon on Kindle.
 You can find out more about Danna Olivo at http://www.marketatomy.com
  
 Here's the Transcript
  
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings to the Nonprofit Exchange. We do this live every Tuesday at 2:00 EST. Today, Russ is with me as always. Russ, how are you today?
 Russell: Greetings. Happy Tuesday, everyone.
 Hugh: Russ is in Denver, and I’m in Virginia. I’m getting ready to move into a new home. Moving is one of my most favorite things. It’s right below setting myself on fire or teaching middle school. It’s in close competition, but I am moving this week. My life is full of excitement.
 Russ and I see each other at least once a week and talk in between. Thank you for being a faithful co-host in this series of interviews with thought leaders. We certainly have one that you and I both know. We are talking about some of the themes that we have talked about in the past, but we are on the verge of launching the third pillar of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We have a pillar that supports clergy and all the religious organizations, like churches and synagogues, and the para-church organizations. And we have a leg that is all these social benefit community charities; we call them nonprofits, but it is the other tax-exempt type of organizations. Now the third leg is for early-stage entrepreneurs. There is a lot of struggle with early-stage nonprofits and businesses around the topic of getting your grounding and getting your funding. Today’s guest is a dear friend of ours, Danna Olivo. Danna, welcome.
 Danna Olivo: Hi, Hugh. Hi, Russell.
 Hugh: Danna, you and I have known each other for a number of years. We participate in some activities together. You have actually spent a day at one of my live events. You were not at the one where Russ was a co-presenter, but you were at one where Shannon Gronich was a co-presenter. You’re familiar with the methodology of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. I’m familiar in concept with the brilliant work you do. You came to me a couple weeks ago and said, “Hugh,” and you came with another friend of ours who is a funding expert, “let’s build a system, a program for those people early-stage who are struggling.” We are talking about the future now. This is what’s going to happen under the umbrella of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. Danna, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange.
 Danna: Thank you, Hugh. I am real excited about this new program that we’re talking about launching. You know as well as I do that there is a gap out in the marketplace that is just not being met. And we really need to touch on that and help them. We make it so easy for entrepreneurs to start a business here in the U.S, but we don’t make it easy for them to grow a business in the United States.
 Hugh: They can start a business, but they lack the- We can teach them how to drive a car, but they need to put gas in it so it runs. That is the world of funding. Before we dig in, we are going to keep people in suspense for a minute. Before we dig into the topics for today, give our listeners some background about you. What’s your superwoman power? What’s brought you here? You could probably talk the whole podcast about your experiences. But capsule what’s brought you here and your primary passion for what we’re doing together.
 Danna: My company’s name is MarketAtomy; it’s marketing anatomy. I have had so many clients that were coming to me that were new entrepreneurs, and they had a good product or service they had started their business on. But what happened was they got into business and there were no customers coming through the door. They couldn’t figure out how to bring those customers through the door. In an effort to teach them the infrastructure that needed to be in place around that product or service is where MarketAtomy was born. The way I do that is by explaining to them graphically through the human body that the heart of your business is your why. Why are your customers going to come to you? Why are your patrons going to visit you over the competition? The brain is your how. That is your structure. That is your systems, the methodologies, everything that runs the business. But in the human body, can the heart operate without the brain? And vice versa? No. You need both the heart and the brain in order to grow your business and bring those customers through the door by pushing your message out through the veins of the body to your market, which is the human body. It’s a real simple concept. My vision for MarketAtomy is to teach this to every single entrepreneur out there wanting to start their business. Ultimately, make a dent in the number of failed businesses out there in the world.
 Hugh: I want to highlight what you’re saying and move it into the nonprofit sector. We teach nonprofits (we’re using the word because people understand it), we teach tax-exempt charities how to install business principles in their organization because it’s truly a tax-exempt business. We have more rules from the IRS for how we manage money. Basically, we have to create profit to fund the work that we’re doing. We need to attract those customers or stakeholders or donors or volunteers. There is not a whole lot of difference in how we attract those. How about you?
 Danna: No. there isn’t. For the most part, you hear about nonprofits always trying to raise funds, and they are going to the for-profit corporations to help them through donations and things like that. What about the for-profit side? Is there a way, or there is a way, where they can rely on nonprofits that are going to help them build credibility in their company? Reach out and expand their market. There is a synergy there between the nonprofits and the for-profits by partnering, and that’s what we call cause marketing.
 Hugh: Yeah, absolutely. I am going to use the words “business” and “charity” because it’s simpler for my brain not to have so many “p” words in there.
 Danna: Business and charity works good with me.
 Hugh: I want to cut through the chatter and get down to the brass tack. You’ve done a brilliant thing like we’ve done a brilliant thing. We have put synergy and vision together and got SynerVision, which is the synergy of the common vision. You put market anatomy together, and that comes up with a new concept. Plus you can go get a URL nobody has.
 Danna: That’s true. Got it. Done it.
 Hugh: I want to set the context for what we’re going to talk about later. I want to delve into some of your expertise. People tell us they learn important things they can utilize day to day in their charities. Our primary listening audience are those people who are executive directors or clergy, and they are trying to make their way through all this stuff they don’t understand. We want them to understand some business principles. People tell us if there is some very useful information. We have tens of thousands of people who view these videos and listen to the podcast. Knowing you, you will give us some nuggets for the interview. We are launching a program underneath SynerVision Leadership Foundation for early-stage entrepreneurs, whether they are running a business or a charity, to get that strategy and to have access to early-stage funding, which is a trap for a lot of people. They get stuck right there. We will talk about that later on in the interview.
 As we start this, I have SynerVision International, which is a business. I work with business leaders. I have SynerVision Leadership Foundation, which is a 501(c)3 charity. There has to be a clear line as far as how the cash flows from one to the other; there are strict rules. There is tax rules for everybody, but there is more strict rules with a charity. Russ knows about this. He has had years with the IRS. We attempt to stay out of prison and not get in trouble and pay penalties because we try to uphold those rules. They are there for a really good reason. We can attract funding that is philanthropic funding, but there are eight streams of revenue there. There are a lot of ways we can attract funding.
 You work with people in a business and a charity. Sometimes you have people that have both like me. You started talking a little bit about the two of those working together. What else would you like to share about how somebody could have an entity, two totally separate entities, two checking accounts, two different leaderships—you have to have a board with a charity. Just because you founded it doesn’t mean you get to say anything. You have to have real clear principles because the board is in charge of governance and the funding piece, the disbursement, the financial accountability. If people have both, you advocate to people to have both. If so, how do you manage that?
 Danna: First of all, yes, whether you are a business or a charity, I think you should have a board of directors. On the business side, it could be an advisory board, depending on where you’re going. Yes, you need somebody that is holding you accountable to what your culture is, what your vision is, what your mission is. It’s the same thing on the charity side. If you have a nonprofit and a business, I would say it would be beneficial to have two different boards because there is two different mindsets going there.
 Hugh: Let’s let the expert weigh in. Russ, we’re getting in your territory here. Do you want to weigh in here?
 Russell: Good to see everyone. Having separate accountability structures is pretty critical because in essence you have different things that you’re doing. One of the terms by the way that I have seen is lack of social profit entities. That might be better terminology to talk about what you’re doing.
 Structurally, you need to keep things separate because if you get into a situation where your profit-making business has unrelated activity going on and the nonprofit is conceived as bringing in revenue from activity that is not related to its primary cause, you could create a taxable income situation. You don’t want to do that. You definitely don’t want to- The whole purpose of having a nonprofit is not paying tax. That is a big part of it.
 Danna: I think the other thing to keep in mind- The most critical thing to think about is whether you have both a nonprofit and a for-profit arm, there are two separate businesses. You have to operate them as two separate businesses. They have their own licenses. Everything is operated separately. For that reason, I would say, you do need two boards.
 Hugh: We talk about an arm and an arm, but really they are two distinctly different entities. What Russ was referring to is IRS has this thing called unrelated business income. If you are bringing in lots of money and it’s not related to your mission, then that is really taxable income, no matter if it’s a business or a charity. You could argue that I would rather pay tax on more money, but you want to keep your accounting really clean and keep really good records. There is some synergies between the two. There is lots of examples in the marketplace where people do business work here, but then they give away or have a greatly reduced price for those charities. For instance, Russ and I work with organizations through SynerVision Leadership Foundation either for free through opportunities or at a drastically reduced cost because that is the philanthropic calling for SynerVision. We offer people who can’t afford it goods and services, and that is why we are tax-exempt. On the business side, I work with business leaders who jolly well have the income and should be paying for it. They get value for that.
 Let’s talk about some of your background. What would you say are your areas of expertise? You have used the word “strategist” and “business plan.” We use business plans.
 Danna: I call it the life of hard knocks. Believe me. I’ve got my degrees, I’ve got this, I’ve got that, but I’m sorry. It’s life. It’s life experience that has taught me a great deal of what I know. It comes out in the way that I talk and the way that I teach. I don’t teach at a level of a professor or anything like that. I am right there at the level of the entrepreneur, and I think that’s what benefits me.
 I’ve had two failed businesses. I’ll be up front. This is my third business, and it’s a success. I’m glad. But we are still growing it. Through those two failed businesses, I learned very early on what I was missing, which is what I’m bringing to the table now. I did not have that business experience. Even though I was a marketer, I did not have that strategic experience on how to develop a strategy to take a product to market, to take a business to market. I did not have those. I just jumped right in, which is what a lot of business owners do.
 They have a good product or service. They jump into business, and before they know it, they have robbed themselves of their 401k, they have mortgaged their homes to the hilt, they have exhausted their savings, and now they are continuously putting money into a sinking ship, so to say, only because they don’t have that knowledge base. They don’t have the skills. Short of going back to school, which is what I did for four years and got my degrees, short of going back to school, they really have no other options. They have linda.com. They have other e-learning academies out there, but if you don’t know where to start, if you don’t know what questions to be asking, they’re not going to help you. I am introducing the MarketAtomy e-learning environment at the end of this year, and it will have the actual structure just like going back to school. If you want to learn about doing a market analysis, you have to know who your customer is, who your competitors are in order to do it. They will have to go and make sure they understand that. That is what we are trying to do.
 Hugh: That is what we are going to do.
 Danna: Yes, exactly. Oh yes. We are, Hugh. Okay. I am so glad I have you in my corner now.
 Hugh: You got me cornered, didn’t you say. You could say that same thing about people starting charities. I have met people that have exhausted all their money. I have one yesterday that put a lot of money into the charity because they believe in it. I put money into my charity.
 Danna: I’ve done it.
 Hugh: It’s going the wrong way, and I’m not taking money out. I don’t take a salary form SynerVision. It’s a concept that I’ve rallied a lot of people around. We are moving into phase two of development, which is 2018 is going to be a substantial year for the work we are doing. What you don’t yet know is that the gentleman on the other end of this call, the other host, has some good programs that will be valuable to you as well around funding. He is an expert in a number of areas. He is more than a pretty-looking guy; he is smart.
 Danna: That’s great. I’m telling you, I need all the help. I will be the first one to tell you I have big, big visions, just like you, Hugh. But I can’t implement them, and I need those people in my corner, which is why I reached out to you and Money Miners. It’s why I reach out and surround myself with those experts to make my vision a reality.
 Hugh: Russ, did you capture that? Number one thing in leadership is to delegate, to bring people on your team. What do you think of that?
 Russell: I think that’s the way to go. At least, that’s what we have been telling people. We drink our own Kool-Aid. If we’re not drinking the Kool-Aid, then we are not going to get anybody else to do it.
 Danna: My brain is too small to absorb everything, I’m sorry.
 Hugh: My vision to you is that you have a big brain and a big heart and lots of really good content. You have great passion for what you do. What we preach in SynerVision, and you just did it, too, is we can do more if we run together. Down in your neck of the woods there was a NASCAR race in Daytona. When they draft, they go faster, and they use less fuel. Both cars. Three cars. It’s like a train. You can be much more efficient. We are creating our own draft here. You didn’t know I was a redneck and a race fan.
 Danna: My daughter is a big redneck race fan. I hear it all.
 Hugh: That’s me. We’re creating this vortex of energy. Focusing on the road ahead. Talk about some of your programs that you already have that you offer people and how you are going to repurpose those for business and for charities.
 Danna: I mentioned the e-learning academy that we are developing. We are beta-launching at the end of December. That will fill that self-help avenue that needs to be filled. Then there is still do-it-with-you services because we are a firm believer that you do it with your business owners than for. They need to understand.
 There are two areas that I have found with the services that I offer where my clients struggle the most. One is clarity. Vision clarity, market clarity, all of that. I have introduced a five-stage clarification process. It’s mind-mapping. I will actually take them and clarify all of the components and find those gaps that they are missing.
 The other area of focus that I have found is even more prevalent is the financing side and funding side. Hugh, you and I know from going to CEO Space there are a lot of business owners that go in thinking that they can just pull together their business plans and just go and present before investors. But what they don’t realize is the amount of work that has to go into these packages. Not only that, but they also need to be answering the questions these investors ask. They are not putting themselves in the minds of the investors. That is the other side that we are helping them with by first educating them on the front end and getting their companies credit-worthy so that they can go for these larger dollars on the back end to help them grow.
 Hugh: That’s really critical. You get your own house in shape. Russ, what are you hearing over there? What’s brewing in your mind?
 Russell: What’s brewing in my mind is getting that message out there of what value you are bringing, the problem you solve. You got to do it in the language of people who are writing the checks. It’s language. If you don’t have the right language or you are talking to the wrong people, this is a component that has been challenging over the years for me. I have found myself a lot of times talking to the wrong people. You really have to have tools in place to measure what you’re doing. What people measure, and this is what makes social profit so maddening, because you do have dollars and cents, but there are other things that are important to people. It’s finding out and having systems to go find out what’s important to people so that you can deliver that. It’s really asking questions and tapping into their own genius. A lot of these have genius under their own roof that they’re not leveraging. That’s another story with over- and under-functioning leaders. That’s another path that we’re not going to go down today.
 Danna: You’re absolutely right. I know I’m preaching to the choir here. I spent six years in Albuquerque, and I was working in the children’s department of Hoffmantown, one of the largest churches in the United States. Charles Lowry was the pastor there. Pastor Charles had a business side to the business as well, where he had a men’s group, and he would travel the country and teach men entrepreneurs the concept of business in the Christian sense of the word. Where I came out of this is understanding that even in a church environment, it’s a business. It needs to be run like a business. I got that from Hoffmantown. You have all of these smaller churches that crop up, and their memberships, their patrons are giving their dollars to these churches that don’t have a procedure, a system in place. They are not being good stewards of the dollars that are being brought into the church. Those are the kind of things that we need to teach.
 Hugh: To be fair with our listeners, we are in concept stage with this. But we all see a huge importance. We are going to resources. Danna, this dovetails with what Russ and I have been working on with some of the other thought leaders you know in creating a portal with both live and virtual events. It’s going to be initially under the umbrella of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, and we will go after some philanthropic funding for that. We’re actually going to put our money where our mouth is basically. People may be listening to this podcast way into another year. If you’re listening to this podcast in 2018, you will see this launch. If you go to synervisionleadership.org, there will certainly be a section on the site that talks about this collaborative entity. We have kicked around names. Let’s leave that for later. We’ll name it something special, but it will be a project right now. It’s a tax-exempt project to empower early-stage thought leaders who really can’t afford it.
 Danna, in the communities where we do the work, it’s part of reemploying the work force. Reactivating the military, there are 49,000 homeless vets, and there are a whole lot in homes who are wandering around. There are people who have come out of prison and need a leg up. There are small churches and charities that don’t have the vision you just talked about. Part of what we are going to have to do is narrow down our first target. There is plenty of work. No matter if we started in Orlando, Denver, or Virginia, it doesn’t matter, we could have plenty of work if people were willing.
 Let’s talk about that piece for a minute. I would like Russ to weigh in, too. Danna, when you see a charity or a small business and there is really a lot missing, what is the biggest barrier to getting that message across? Is it their own lack of self-awareness? What is the barrier for them not coming forward and being open to receiving the assistance that you offer?
 Danna: I will put into context. You and I met during CEO Space with a certain gentleman that I had put you in touch with. Great ideas. They always have great ideas, and their heart is there. But first of all, they approach it unprofessionally in the sense that they are not protecting themselves. This was the first thing I identified with this gentleman. He is already getting sponsorship dollars and things like that from the public and the community, but he’s not protecting his organization. As those funds come in, they’re not being funneled correctly or monitor correctly. The first thing I find out is they jump in without a plan for protecting or being good stewards of the dollars that are coming into the organization.
 I think the other thing is they jump in because they don’t have the funding and they’re wearing way too many hats, so the project never really gets off the ground because they’re thinking they have to do it all themselves. This is in business; this isn’t just nonprofits and charity work. They think they have to do it all themselves to save money, but in actuality, energy is money. If they are spending all their energy doing a whole crapload of little things, they’re not getting anything done. They’re not making money. They’re not able to get what they need. I think the first thing that I would say that- it’s a matter of we have to clarify. What is that vision? What is the strategy to reaching that end vision? At the same time, showing them that you have a huge responsibility as a charity, as a nonprofit, you have a huge responsibility because it’s not just your money that you’re using and that you have to hold accountable. You want to make sure that you are able to report back to your donors how you’ve managed their money.
 Hugh: In case of a grant, it’s crucial. You won’t get another grant. They might ask for the money back if you have not demonstrated the proper fiduciary oversight and good stewardship, as you put it, which is a really good term.
 Danna: That’s why what you bring, Hugh, on the strategy side for nonprofits is just amazing. They really need this. There are so many people with such big hearts, but they don’t know how to do this.
 Hugh: Russ, you heard it right here. I’m amazing.
 Russell: I have been trying to tell him that for quite a while. Now I’m glad he hasn’t gone to that.
 Danna: We’ll keep him grounded, but we can always lift him up.
 Russell: All of us behind the scenes know all about it. In looking at and addressing that question, there are a number of things that might prevent people from actually doing something different. Sometimes it’s resource-based. Other times, it’s people that I’ve come across that are doing things that have been in the leadership role. They look at things, and they’re not comfortable getting outside of what they’re used to doing. Maybe looking at what they need from a person side, from a human capital type. This is a big thing because when investors or funders or donors of any type write you a check, they’re betting on your team, not necessarily just on you. If people are unable or don’t have the right collaborative partners, or they don’t have people that are willing to collaborate, they become starved for people to actually implement. Ideas are great, but it’s in that implementation that people actually need support. They may not know they need that support, or they may not feel like they have a trusted source for that support.
 Danna: Exactly. One of the other things is, and I’m so glad I have you in my corner, Hugh, is I learned the other day: The word “foundation,” so many nonprofits will set up a foundation but they don’t realize the legal implications of having a foundation and having the money from that foundation be designated to other charities rather than just their own.
 Hugh: In our case, it’s in-kind services. A dollar goes to SynerVision, it goes to other charities in the form of in-kind support, like those of us on this call. It’s money in a different form.
 Danna: That was just a lesson I learned this week.
 Hugh: Russ, the example that she used, without giving names, it’s okay if he’s listening. It’s a funny story. A colleague of mine, we were talking about CEO Space. It’s a business growth conference that all of us met at.
 Danna: A collaborative environment, yeah.
 Hugh: Teaching cooperative capitalism. We take it a step up in collaboration. We all know that it works. A friend of mine, Ed from there, we got with Ken Courtright and talked about… It was actually David. They’ve both been on this podcast. David and I got with Ken for some advice on critiquing a thing we were launching. Next thing I know, without names, he is talking about us on his podcast. He used Ed’s name because Ed had some sage advice, as he always does. I’m honored when somebody says, This is a guy, and this is what they need, and this is our conversation. I knew it was me, but he protected my identity.
 The person you’re talking about has a huge vision. They’re bought in 100%. They have passion for it, and they’re going for it, no matter what. It’s a classic case of somebody getting the cart before the horse. They’re jumping in and not having the systems in place. Russ, there are some dangers from the auditing side, from the tax side of not having the records and not having a board that manages the cash flow. Are there some dangers people need to look out for as we are early-stage putting good systems in place from your standpoint in your years working with the Internal Revenue Service?
 Russell: You definitely want to have good internal controls. How does money flow in and out? Who tracks the money? Who actually handles it? Who tracks it? The people that handle it and the people that are tracking it should be different. When you are talking about large amounts of money and large purchases, you need solid fiscal policies to determine how purchases are made. There are a lot of opportunities for funds to walk out of the door unbeknownst to the management if you don’t have very stringent internal controls in place. Separation of duties, that’s always a big one. If you’re dealing with government monies, you need to be aware of different things that you need to do to comply, especially federal monies under the Office of Management and Budget. There are a lot of pitfalls you can fall into. Of course, we already talked about unrelated business revenue. There are endless places you could end up stepping on a landmine from a tax perspective because the code is so complicated. I think that with a charity, one thing that is often overlooked is whether or not you are registered to collect donations or what you’re registered to collect. Are you registered in all places that you’re actually going to receive funds? That’s one that flies under the radar frequently.
 Hugh: Those are good words. Russ and I have seen this, and I’m sure you have seen that people think because they have a good product on the business side or really good intentions on the other side, money is going to jump their way in the bank. It doesn’t happen that way.
 Danna: No, I’ll tell you a perfect example. I was at a conference three weeks ago. We were in a mastermind session. We were talking about the financing side. When the question came up, two of the individuals, they were new entrepreneurs, said, “I’m incorporated. I don’t need to use my personal credit because now I am protected under the veil of incorporation.” My explanation to them is: That is absolutely true. You are protected. But consider it this way. Your LLC or corporation that you set up is another individual. It’s an individual that has absolutely no credit. You are wanting to launch your business and be able to get bank credit and financing and things like that. If you have no credit, chances are you’re not going to get any financing. That’s where you need to bring in your personal financing, your personal credit, to kick-start your business and then at a later date, you can take yourself off of that and everything else is put into the corporate veil. But you do need your personal credit, which is where we run into issues.
 Hugh: We want to be careful with charities. They don’t want to put anything in there of theirs because you can’t get it back out. We want to create a firewall there. But you speak a really good track to lay down here. We must have personal disciplines with our leadership, with our funding, and with our behaviors. If we are going to be effective leaders, we got to get our own house in order as well.
 Danna: That’s exactly it. That’s part of what we are going to be doing with this summit.
 Hugh: Great. This is part one of a two-part conversation. Part two will be early in 2018 that we will do a formal announcement with the tracks and the programs. We do see a need. What I will create is a forum of SynerVision, an information forum, where you and I will collaborate on the questions. People can come and weigh in on their top issues. If they are starting a small business or a religious institution or community charity or a cause-based organization, any of those tax-exempt, or membership organization, 501(c)6, if they are starting one of those entities, what do they think their biggest needs are? We will have people in the conversation.
 I’m envisioning—and I didn’t check this out with you, but I am going to blurt it out anyway. I’m envisioning a combination of things. The online learning, but also some live webinars. I am also envisioning some group processes. I find that when I have people, especially at a place we talked about, CEO Space—Danna, you saw it and Russell, you saw it on the SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium—when I am helping one person think through their issues, other people are listening, and everybody is learning from that example. There is group learning that we haven’t talked about, but I think you and I have had similar experiences in that area. What are your thoughts on that?
 Danna: I definitely agree. Masterminding is what we’re talking about here. When you think about it, it’s definitely one of the hot topics right now. That is one of the best ways to learn from other successful thought leaders. I know that’s how I’ve learned. We’ve got some mutual friends who are very big thought leaders, and they are holding their own masterminds. Don Ward is one of them. We can’t help but learn from others.
 Hugh: Absolutely.
 Danna: We can’t help but learn from others. Why reinvent the wheel and struggle if there are people out there willing to give us this help that we need? That is exactly what CEO Space is. You go there in a collaborative environment and you get the information you need. I just came off of Women’s Prosperity Network, which is a nation-wide organization. This is another one that is very collaborative, what they call cooperative, I think. Women, more and more women are starting businesses. This is a very fast-moving market right now.
 Hugh: My wife and I took some time over the weekend and went down the route to Staunton in Virginia. It’s a really well-kept downtown, both in character and architecture. People were downtown. Business after business was young, female entrepreneurs. I just rejoiced in that. Everyone was a niche, and it was creative, and there was passion behind it. We are in the women’s era. It’s time to leave the old white guys behind. We messed it up; it’s time for a new era.
 Danna: It’s amazing how many men have come in and joined the WPN, the Women’s Prosperity Network, because they like that interaction with the women. They like that comradery. I grew up in the architectural/engineering/construction market. In that market, I spent 35 years. Everything was so closely held to the chest. Don’t say this, don’t say that. We don’t want the competition to hear this. I just kept telling them, “Guys, get over it. They already know what’s going on. Get over it. Don’t be afraid. Just stay a step ahead of them.” Women just have a way of cooperating and helping and lifting each other up. If more and more people did that, we would be a lot farther along than where we are right now.
 Hugh: We can make up for lost time. I totally agree with you. Women are very collaborative. At this point in history of recording, it’s time for the small business sector and the charity sector to set a new bar. We have conflict in the government and with football of all places, and people are divided over common issues where we ought to be united for those. We will not go into politics today.
 Danna: Thank you.
 Hugh: There is another channel and example that we are called to be. I want to do a Round Robin here. I want to start with Russ because we need to give the better-looking guy some attention, some airtime. Russ always has these great sound bites, but he has also got some really good contributions. When he speaks, people listen. Russ, two things. Do you have some comments about what Danna has brought up or questions for her? Then tell us about your next live event for your charity work and your program for funding that you have. First with Danna, and then talk about the two things that you have, or others you want to share.
 Russell: I think that everything is relationship-based. This is the thing that we are coming around to. It’s all about relationships. The way that men operate, we’re more linear in our thought process and more results-oriented. Women are more relationship-based. What we’re finding out is that if you want to build partnerships and joint ventures, you are going to have people that resonate with you. If you’re going to get people to collaborate with you in any project, it’s all about relationships. You have to have good relationships. People aren’t just looking for the fast buck, the quick transaction. They’re not going there. That’s not going to work for people. It’s all about relationships. We really need to change that.
 The other thing is in looking at churches, I have been working with my own envisioning project. Whatever we’re doing, the key is to raise our level of consciousness. This is what we’re finding out with today’s environment. We’re shouting at each other. We’re at a point in time where if we are going to succeed, it doesn’t matter what area you’re talking about. If you’re talking about your spiritual or economic situation, your business, we have to raise our level of consciousness to be more effective, to help more people. That’s my view on that.
 As for right now, I am working on some new material with a group called Algorithms for Success. I’ve done some training with them. We’re actually strategizing on some of my online programs. I am working on different modulized programs for fundraising and board development. We’re working on rolling out a series of things for 2018 as well as the book Four Steps to Building a High-Performance Nonprofit. I have been working on that for a while; I have not gotten all the interviews I want, but we are going to be launching that online program that I am in the process of revising. That is taking me through the fundamental steps of building a strategy. It’s a 22-point strategy framework that Hugh and David Gruder actually developed a success map.
 As far as questions for you, what benefits do you think could be realized from cross-sector partnerships? What are the big wins you see businesses getting through this collaboration? What are some of the wins for the nonprofits as well?
 Danna: Wow. The reason I reached out to Hugh for this program that we’re talking about is because one of the benefits is with the target market that I go after, small businesses that are generally under $500,000 annual revenue or less, a lot of times they can’t afford my services. Much to the chagrin of my husband, I would love to give my services away. But his comment is, “Honey, I’m sorry, but we gotta make money. I don’t want to be working at a j-o-b all my life.”
 It’s two-sided. In an effort to find a way for them to be able to afford the services that they need, there is grant money out there. That’s what we want to go after. I’m not familiar with nonprofits, and I know that I need a nonprofit. That’s why I reached out to Hugh Ballou. I knew I needed a nonprofit leg to help on the sponsorship side so we could go for sponsorship dollars for these events we are doing, and also for the grant money to help those business owners that qualify to get the education and the resources that they need. That is one of the reasons where I see for-profits and nonprofits can coordinate.
 The other thing is by businesses partnering with nonprofits, you get that credibility factor. By building in that credibility factor, your clients look at a higher standard for you. Not necessarily at a higher standard, but they become advocates because they know you’re doing good for the community. You’re doing good for society, and they want to promote you because of that. So you get the credibility aspect. You get the market outreach. You get the dollars. There is so much value and benefit that comes from a business partnering with a nonprofit. You have to figure out how to make that work and not try and do it all yourself.
 Russell: That’s critical.
 Hugh: Russ, you’re so right. Let’s capture that. What I find over and over again is we help small business owners, especially solopreneurs, learn how to do things and then try to bring in team members. With a charity, it’s imperative that you start with a team. That’s the biggest problem leaders have in the charity/church world. The leader wants to do it all, but really you must engage the board for governance, for fiduciary oversight, and for support, their arms and legs. Lots of really good stuff here.
 We are coming to the last stretch of our time here. Danna, we got a lot more to talk about. We need to do some heavy lifting. Right now, you are waiting for me to get a document back to you. I am starting to get a clearer vision of the potential. Our problem is going to be to scale it to what we can handle to begin with. I know the energy field here is really good.
 Russ, where do people go for your stuff that you talked about? Your book and your online program, your website. Where do people go to find that?
 Russell: For the four steps to building a high-performance nonprofit, you go to bit.ly/fourstepshpnpo. I will drop that in the chat box so that people can see it. If you’d like to have a talk with me, I do discovery sessions with folks. You can go to bit.ly/bookruss to get on my calendar, and we will have a discovery session about whatever concerns you. I am in the process of having people rebuild my website, so I’ll have free offerings. I have a donor series and some board series things that people will be able to tap into once my website rebuild is done. I’m working on some other courses and writing articles. All of that stuff will be available to everyone out there.
 Hugh: I want to know when you sleep. Do you sleep?
 Russell: I sleep quite a bit, maybe more than I should. I’m finding as more time passes by, I sleep a little bit more. The real opportunity, I think, in this is to get people talking to one another.
 This thought crossed my mind. I was thinking of asking Danna: What is the high point, the one single thought that needs to be conveyed to people on both sides, for-profit and nonprofit? What would you say is the single thread that needs to run through their minds when they are debating about whether or not they should collaborate?
 Hugh: I’m going to let her think about that a minute. That’s a great question. You took the words right out of my mouth. Danna, think about that for a minute.
 We need to think about profit in our charities. That is the gas that is going to help us fully achieve our mission and vision. Thenonprofitexchange.org is the place you can view this video a few hours after we stop here. I will put the links for Russell’s website and Danna’s website. You will already be on the SynerVision website when you go to thenonprofitexchange.org. That will take you to SynerVision for this Tuesday program.
 Danna, we are going to let you close us out with Russell’s question that you have been pondering on. Your website is…
 Danna: Marketatomy.com. It is also being revised, so there may be a little bit of Greek in there right now. Just ignore it.
 Hugh: We have to stop here. Danna, will you leave that closing thought for us?
 Danna: Russell, correct me if I’m wrong. You sked me what is the one thing that should be considered when thinking about collaborating with a nonprofit or a for-profit. First, you need to be clear in your messaging. You need to be clear in what you want so that you can communicate it clearly, and then also synergy. For instance, me teaming with Hugh, he is a strategist. We have the same processes and things like that, so that creates that synergy. Does that answer your question?
 Russell: That does. Synergy is all about synergy and alignment.
 Danna: Alignment, yep.
 Hugh: That was my inspiration for combining vision and synergy. It’s the synergy we get from the common vision, which is our trademark. Danna Olivo from Orlando, Florida, thank you for sharing your wisdom and your time. Russell, thank you for your friendship and support. Thank you both for being here.
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        <![CDATA[<h1><strong>Dreams, Teams, and Funding Themes</strong></h1> <strong>Danna Olivo Shares Her Secrets of Success</strong> <p><strong>Danna Olivo</strong> is a Business Growth Sequencing Strategist and CEO of <strong>MarketAtomy, LLC</strong>. Her passion is working with small first stage entrepreneurs to ensure that they start out on the right foot and stay on the path to financial freedom. Known as the <strong><em>Business Birthing Specialist,</em></strong> Danna understands the intricacies involved in starting and running a successful business. Her efforts extend beyond the initial strategic planning process on into the implementation and monitoring phase. As an intricate component ingrained into her client’s business structure, she works diligently to keep her client’s accountable and on track to fulfilling their success goals.</p> <p>A graduate of the University of Central Florida’s College of Business, Danna holds degrees in both Marketing and Management Information Systems (MIS). She brings more than 35 years of strategic planning experience in business, marketing and business development both nationally and internationally.</p> <p>Danna is not only a professional business growth strategist but has worked as an International Strategist within the country of Brazil, is a public speaker and #1 Best Selling Author on Amazon with <em>“Success From The Heart”</em> and <em>“Journey To The Stage.”</em> Her newest book <em>“MarketAtomy: What To Expect When Expecting A Business”</em> is now available through Amazon on Kindle.</p> <p>You can find out more about Danna Olivo at <a href="http://www.marketatomy.com/">http://www.marketatomy.com</a></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Here's the Transcript</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings to the Nonprofit Exchange. We do this live every Tuesday at 2:00 EST. Today, Russ is with me as always. Russ, how are you today?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Greetings. Happy Tuesday, everyone.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ is in Denver, and I’m in Virginia. I’m getting ready to move into a new home. Moving is one of my most favorite things. It’s right below setting myself on fire or teaching middle school. It’s in close competition, but I am moving this week. My life is full of excitement.</p> <p>Russ and I see each other at least once a week and talk in between. Thank you for being a faithful co-host in this series of interviews with thought leaders. We certainly have one that you and I both know. We are talking about some of the themes that we have talked about in the past, but we are on the verge of launching the third pillar of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We have a pillar that supports clergy and all the religious organizations, like churches and synagogues, and the para-church organizations. And we have a leg that is all these social benefit community charities; we call them nonprofits, but it is the other tax-exempt type of organizations. Now the third leg is for early-stage entrepreneurs. There is a lot of struggle with early-stage nonprofits and businesses around the topic of getting your grounding and getting your funding. Today’s guest is a dear friend of ours, Danna Olivo. Danna, welcome.</p> <p><strong>Danna Olivo:</strong> Hi, Hugh. Hi, Russell.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Danna, you and I have known each other for a number of years. We participate in some activities together. You have actually spent a day at one of my live events. You were not at the one where Russ was a co-presenter, but you were at one where Shannon Gronich was a co-presenter. You’re familiar with the methodology of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. I’m familiar in concept with the brilliant work you do. You came to me a couple weeks ago and said, “Hugh,” and you came with another friend of ours who is a funding expert, “let’s build a system, a program for those people early-stage who are struggling.” We are talking about the future now. This is what’s going to happen under the umbrella of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. Danna, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Thank you, Hugh. I am real excited about this new program that we’re talking about launching. You know as well as I do that there is a gap out in the marketplace that is just not being met. And we really need to touch on that and help them. We make it so easy for entrepreneurs to start a business here in the U.S, but we don’t make it easy for them to grow a business in the United States.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> They can start a business, but they lack the- We can teach them how to drive a car, but they need to put gas in it so it runs. That is the world of funding. Before we dig in, we are going to keep people in suspense for a minute. Before we dig into the topics for today, give our listeners some background about you. What’s your superwoman power? What’s brought you here? You could probably talk the whole podcast about your experiences. But capsule what’s brought you here and your primary passion for what we’re doing together.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> My company’s name is MarketAtomy; it’s marketing anatomy. I have had so many clients that were coming to me that were new entrepreneurs, and they had a good product or service they had started their business on. But what happened was they got into business and there were no customers coming through the door. They couldn’t figure out how to bring those customers through the door. In an effort to teach them the infrastructure that needed to be in place around that product or service is where MarketAtomy was born. The way I do that is by explaining to them graphically through the human body that the heart of your business is your why. Why are your customers going to come to you? Why are your patrons going to visit you over the competition? The brain is your how. That is your structure. That is your systems, the methodologies, everything that runs the business. But in the human body, can the heart operate without the brain? And vice versa? No. You need both the heart and the brain in order to grow your business and bring those customers through the door by pushing your message out through the veins of the body to your market, which is the human body. It’s a real simple concept. My vision for MarketAtomy is to teach this to every single entrepreneur out there wanting to start their business. Ultimately, make a dent in the number of failed businesses out there in the world.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want to highlight what you’re saying and move it into the nonprofit sector. We teach nonprofits (we’re using the word because people understand it), we teach tax-exempt charities how to install business principles in their organization because it’s truly a tax-exempt business. We have more rules from the IRS for how we manage money. Basically, we have to create profit to fund the work that we’re doing. We need to attract those customers or stakeholders or donors or volunteers. There is not a whole lot of difference in how we attract those. How about you?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> No. there isn’t. For the most part, you hear about nonprofits always trying to raise funds, and they are going to the for-profit corporations to help them through donations and things like that. What about the for-profit side? Is there a way, or there is a way, where they can rely on nonprofits that are going to help them build credibility in their company? Reach out and expand their market. There is a synergy there between the nonprofits and the for-profits by partnering, and that’s what we call cause marketing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. I am going to use the words “business” and “charity” because it’s simpler for my brain not to have so many “p” words in there.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Business and charity works good with me.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want to cut through the chatter and get down to the brass tack. You’ve done a brilliant thing like we’ve done a brilliant thing. We have put synergy and vision together and got SynerVision, which is the synergy of the common vision. You put market anatomy together, and that comes up with a new concept. Plus you can go get a URL nobody has.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> That’s true. Got it. Done it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want to set the context for what we’re going to talk about later. I want to delve into some of your expertise. People tell us they learn important things they can utilize day to day in their charities. Our primary listening audience are those people who are executive directors or clergy, and they are trying to make their way through all this stuff they don’t understand. We want them to understand some business principles. People tell us if there is some very useful information. We have tens of thousands of people who view these videos and listen to the podcast. Knowing you, you will give us some nuggets for the interview. We are launching a program underneath SynerVision Leadership Foundation for early-stage entrepreneurs, whether they are running a business or a charity, to get that strategy and to have access to early-stage funding, which is a trap for a lot of people. They get stuck right there. We will talk about that later on in the interview.</p> <p>As we start this, I have SynerVision International, which is a business. I work with business leaders. I have SynerVision Leadership Foundation, which is a 501(c)3 charity. There has to be a clear line as far as how the cash flows from one to the other; there are strict rules. There is tax rules for everybody, but there is more strict rules with a charity. Russ knows about this. He has had years with the IRS. We attempt to stay out of prison and not get in trouble and pay penalties because we try to uphold those rules. They are there for a really good reason. We can attract funding that is philanthropic funding, but there are eight streams of revenue there. There are a lot of ways we can attract funding.</p> <p>You work with people in a business and a charity. Sometimes you have people that have both like me. You started talking a little bit about the two of those working together. What else would you like to share about how somebody could have an entity, two totally separate entities, two checking accounts, two different leaderships—you have to have a board with a charity. Just because you founded it doesn’t mean you get to say anything. You have to have real clear principles because the board is in charge of governance and the funding piece, the disbursement, the financial accountability. If people have both, you advocate to people to have both. If so, how do you manage that?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> First of all, yes, whether you are a business or a charity, I think you should have a board of directors. On the business side, it could be an advisory board, depending on where you’re going. Yes, you need somebody that is holding you accountable to what your culture is, what your vision is, what your mission is. It’s the same thing on the charity side. If you have a nonprofit and a business, I would say it would be beneficial to have two different boards because there is two different mindsets going there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Let’s let the expert weigh in. Russ, we’re getting in your territory here. Do you want to weigh in here?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Good to see everyone. Having separate accountability structures is pretty critical because in essence you have different things that you’re doing. One of the terms by the way that I have seen is lack of social profit entities. That might be better terminology to talk about what you’re doing.</p> <p>Structurally, you need to keep things separate because if you get into a situation where your profit-making business has unrelated activity going on and the nonprofit is conceived as bringing in revenue from activity that is not related to its primary cause, you could create a taxable income situation. You don’t want to do that. You definitely don’t want to- The whole purpose of having a nonprofit is not paying tax. That is a big part of it.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> I think the other thing to keep in mind- The most critical thing to think about is whether you have both a nonprofit and a for-profit arm, there are two separate businesses. You have to operate them as two separate businesses. They have their own licenses. Everything is operated separately. For that reason, I would say, you do need two boards.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We talk about an arm and an arm, but really they are two distinctly different entities. What Russ was referring to is IRS has this thing called unrelated business income. If you are bringing in lots of money and it’s not related to your mission, then that is really taxable income, no matter if it’s a business or a charity. You could argue that I would rather pay tax on more money, but you want to keep your accounting really clean and keep really good records. There is some synergies between the two. There is lots of examples in the marketplace where people do business work here, but then they give away or have a greatly reduced price for those charities. For instance, Russ and I work with organizations through SynerVision Leadership Foundation either for free through opportunities or at a drastically reduced cost because that is the philanthropic calling for SynerVision. We offer people who can’t afford it goods and services, and that is why we are tax-exempt. On the business side, I work with business leaders who jolly well have the income and should be paying for it. They get value for that.</p> <p>Let’s talk about some of your background. What would you say are your areas of expertise? You have used the word “strategist” and “business plan.” We use business plans.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> I call it the life of hard knocks. Believe me. I’ve got my degrees, I’ve got this, I’ve got that, but I’m sorry. It’s life. It’s life experience that has taught me a great deal of what I know. It comes out in the way that I talk and the way that I teach. I don’t teach at a level of a professor or anything like that. I am right there at the level of the entrepreneur, and I think that’s what benefits me.</p> <p>I’ve had two failed businesses. I’ll be up front. This is my third business, and it’s a success. I’m glad. But we are still growing it. Through those two failed businesses, I learned very early on what I was missing, which is what I’m bringing to the table now. I did not have that business experience. Even though I was a marketer, I did not have that strategic experience on how to develop a strategy to take a product to market, to take a business to market. I did not have those. I just jumped right in, which is what a lot of business owners do.</p> <p>They have a good product or service. They jump into business, and before they know it, they have robbed themselves of their 401k, they have mortgaged their homes to the hilt, they have exhausted their savings, and now they are continuously putting money into a sinking ship, so to say, only because they don’t have that knowledge base. They don’t have the skills. Short of going back to school, which is what I did for four years and got my degrees, short of going back to school, they really have no other options. They have linda.com. They have other e-learning academies out there, but if you don’t know where to start, if you don’t know what questions to be asking, they’re not going to help you. I am introducing the MarketAtomy e-learning environment at the end of this year, and it will have the actual structure just like going back to school. If you want to learn about doing a market analysis, you have to know who your customer is, who your competitors are in order to do it. They will have to go and make sure they understand that. That is what we are trying to do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is what we are going to do.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Yes, exactly. Oh yes. We are, Hugh. Okay. I am so glad I have you in my corner now.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You got me cornered, didn’t you say. You could say that same thing about people starting charities. I have met people that have exhausted all their money. I have one yesterday that put a lot of money into the charity because they believe in it. I put money into my charity.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> I’ve done it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s going the wrong way, and I’m not taking money out. I don’t take a salary form SynerVision. It’s a concept that I’ve rallied a lot of people around. We are moving into phase two of development, which is 2018 is going to be a substantial year for the work we are doing. What you don’t yet know is that the gentleman on the other end of this call, the other host, has some good programs that will be valuable to you as well around funding. He is an expert in a number of areas. He is more than a pretty-looking guy; he is smart.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> That’s great. I’m telling you, I need all the help. I will be the first one to tell you I have big, big visions, just like you, Hugh. But I can’t implement them, and I need those people in my corner, which is why I reached out to you and Money Miners. It’s why I reach out and surround myself with those experts to make my vision a reality.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, did you capture that? Number one thing in leadership is to delegate, to bring people on your team. What do you think of that?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think that’s the way to go. At least, that’s what we have been telling people. We drink our own Kool-Aid. If we’re not drinking the Kool-Aid, then we are not going to get anybody else to do it.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> My brain is too small to absorb everything, I’m sorry.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> My vision to you is that you have a big brain and a big heart and lots of really good content. You have great passion for what you do. What we preach in SynerVision, and you just did it, too, is we can do more if we run together. Down in your neck of the woods there was a NASCAR race in Daytona. When they draft, they go faster, and they use less fuel. Both cars. Three cars. It’s like a train. You can be much more efficient. We are creating our own draft here. You didn’t know I was a redneck and a race fan.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> My daughter is a big redneck race fan. I hear it all.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s me. We’re creating this vortex of energy. Focusing on the road ahead. Talk about some of your programs that you already have that you offer people and how you are going to repurpose those for business and for charities.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> I mentioned the e-learning academy that we are developing. We are beta-launching at the end of December. That will fill that self-help avenue that needs to be filled. Then there is still do-it-with-you services because we are a firm believer that you do it with your business owners than for. They need to understand.</p> <p>There are two areas that I have found with the services that I offer where my clients struggle the most. One is clarity. Vision clarity, market clarity, all of that. I have introduced a five-stage clarification process. It’s mind-mapping. I will actually take them and clarify all of the components and find those gaps that they are missing.</p> <p>The other area of focus that I have found is even more prevalent is the financing side and funding side. Hugh, you and I know from going to CEO Space there are a lot of business owners that go in thinking that they can just pull together their business plans and just go and present before investors. But what they don’t realize is the amount of work that has to go into these packages. Not only that, but they also need to be answering the questions these investors ask. They are not putting themselves in the minds of the investors. That is the other side that we are helping them with by first educating them on the front end and getting their companies credit-worthy so that they can go for these larger dollars on the back end to help them grow.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s really critical. You get your own house in shape. Russ, what are you hearing over there? What’s brewing in your mind?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> What’s brewing in my mind is getting that message out there of what value you are bringing, the problem you solve. You got to do it in the language of people who are writing the checks. It’s language. If you don’t have the right language or you are talking to the wrong people, this is a component that has been challenging over the years for me. I have found myself a lot of times talking to the wrong people. You really have to have tools in place to measure what you’re doing. What people measure, and this is what makes social profit so maddening, because you do have dollars and cents, but there are other things that are important to people. It’s finding out and having systems to go find out what’s important to people so that you can deliver that. It’s really asking questions and tapping into their own genius. A lot of these have genius under their own roof that they’re not leveraging. That’s another story with over- and under-functioning leaders. That’s another path that we’re not going to go down today.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> You’re absolutely right. I know I’m preaching to the choir here. I spent six years in Albuquerque, and I was working in the children’s department of Hoffmantown, one of the largest churches in the United States. Charles Lowry was the pastor there. Pastor Charles had a business side to the business as well, where he had a men’s group, and he would travel the country and teach men entrepreneurs the concept of business in the Christian sense of the word. Where I came out of this is understanding that even in a church environment, it’s a business. It needs to be run like a business. I got that from Hoffmantown. You have all of these smaller churches that crop up, and their memberships, their patrons are giving their dollars to these churches that don’t have a procedure, a system in place. They are not being good stewards of the dollars that are being brought into the church. Those are the kind of things that we need to teach.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> To be fair with our listeners, we are in concept stage with this. But we all see a huge importance. We are going to resources. Danna, this dovetails with what Russ and I have been working on with some of the other thought leaders you know in creating a portal with both live and virtual events. It’s going to be initially under the umbrella of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, and we will go after some philanthropic funding for that. We’re actually going to put our money where our mouth is basically. People may be listening to this podcast way into another year. If you’re listening to this podcast in 2018, you will see this launch. If you go to synervisionleadership.org, there will certainly be a section on the site that talks about this collaborative entity. We have kicked around names. Let’s leave that for later. We’ll name it something special, but it will be a project right now. It’s a tax-exempt project to empower early-stage thought leaders who really can’t afford it.</p> <p>Danna, in the communities where we do the work, it’s part of reemploying the work force. Reactivating the military, there are 49,000 homeless vets, and there are a whole lot in homes who are wandering around. There are people who have come out of prison and need a leg up. There are small churches and charities that don’t have the vision you just talked about. Part of what we are going to have to do is narrow down our first target. There is plenty of work. No matter if we started in Orlando, Denver, or Virginia, it doesn’t matter, we could have plenty of work if people were willing.</p> <p>Let’s talk about that piece for a minute. I would like Russ to weigh in, too. Danna, when you see a charity or a small business and there is really a lot missing, what is the biggest barrier to getting that message across? Is it their own lack of self-awareness? What is the barrier for them not coming forward and being open to receiving the assistance that you offer?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> I will put into context. You and I met during CEO Space with a certain gentleman that I had put you in touch with. Great ideas. They always have great ideas, and their heart is there. But first of all, they approach it unprofessionally in the sense that they are not protecting themselves. This was the first thing I identified with this gentleman. He is already getting sponsorship dollars and things like that from the public and the community, but he’s not protecting his organization. As those funds come in, they’re not being funneled correctly or monitor correctly. The first thing I find out is they jump in without a plan for protecting or being good stewards of the dollars that are coming into the organization.</p> <p>I think the other thing is they jump in because they don’t have the funding and they’re wearing way too many hats, so the project never really gets off the ground because they’re thinking they have to do it all themselves. This is in business; this isn’t just nonprofits and charity work. They think they have to do it all themselves to save money, but in actuality, energy is money. If they are spending all their energy doing a whole crapload of little things, they’re not getting anything done. They’re not making money. They’re not able to get what they need. I think the first thing that I would say that- it’s a matter of we have to clarify. What is that vision? What is the strategy to reaching that end vision? At the same time, showing them that you have a huge responsibility as a charity, as a nonprofit, you have a huge responsibility because it’s not just your money that you’re using and that you have to hold accountable. You want to make sure that you are able to report back to your donors how you’ve managed their money.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> In case of a grant, it’s crucial. You won’t get another grant. They might ask for the money back if you have not demonstrated the proper fiduciary oversight and good stewardship, as you put it, which is a really good term.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> That’s why what you bring, Hugh, on the strategy side for nonprofits is just amazing. They really need this. There are so many people with such big hearts, but they don’t know how to do this.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, you heard it right here. I’m amazing.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I have been trying to tell him that for quite a while. Now I’m glad he hasn’t gone to that.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> We’ll keep him grounded, but we can always lift him up.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> All of us behind the scenes know all about it. In looking at and addressing that question, there are a number of things that might prevent people from actually doing something different. Sometimes it’s resource-based. Other times, it’s people that I’ve come across that are doing things that have been in the leadership role. They look at things, and they’re not comfortable getting outside of what they’re used to doing. Maybe looking at what they need from a person side, from a human capital type. This is a big thing because when investors or funders or donors of any type write you a check, they’re betting on your team, not necessarily just on you. If people are unable or don’t have the right collaborative partners, or they don’t have people that are willing to collaborate, they become starved for people to actually implement. Ideas are great, but it’s in that implementation that people actually need support. They may not know they need that support, or they may not feel like they have a trusted source for that support.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Exactly. One of the other things is, and I’m so glad I have you in my corner, Hugh, is I learned the other day: The word “foundation,” so many nonprofits will set up a foundation but they don’t realize the legal implications of having a foundation and having the money from that foundation be designated to other charities rather than just their own.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> In our case, it’s in-kind services. A dollar goes to SynerVision, it goes to other charities in the form of in-kind support, like those of us on this call. It’s money in a different form.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> That was just a lesson I learned this week.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, the example that she used, without giving names, it’s okay if he’s listening. It’s a funny story. A colleague of mine, we were talking about CEO Space. It’s a business growth conference that all of us met at.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> A collaborative environment, yeah.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Teaching cooperative capitalism. We take it a step up in collaboration. We all know that it works. A friend of mine, Ed from there, we got with Ken Courtright and talked about… It was actually David. They’ve both been on this podcast. David and I got with Ken for some advice on critiquing a thing we were launching. Next thing I know, without names, he is talking about us on his podcast. He used Ed’s name because Ed had some sage advice, as he always does. I’m honored when somebody says, This is a guy, and this is what they need, and this is our conversation. I knew it was me, but he protected my identity.</p> <p>The person you’re talking about has a huge vision. They’re bought in 100%. They have passion for it, and they’re going for it, no matter what. It’s a classic case of somebody getting the cart before the horse. They’re jumping in and not having the systems in place. Russ, there are some dangers from the auditing side, from the tax side of not having the records and not having a board that manages the cash flow. Are there some dangers people need to look out for as we are early-stage putting good systems in place from your standpoint in your years working with the Internal Revenue Service?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You definitely want to have good internal controls. How does money flow in and out? Who tracks the money? Who actually handles it? Who tracks it? The people that handle it and the people that are tracking it should be different. When you are talking about large amounts of money and large purchases, you need solid fiscal policies to determine how purchases are made. There are a lot of opportunities for funds to walk out of the door unbeknownst to the management if you don’t have very stringent internal controls in place. Separation of duties, that’s always a big one. If you’re dealing with government monies, you need to be aware of different things that you need to do to comply, especially federal monies under the Office of Management and Budget. There are a lot of pitfalls you can fall into. Of course, we already talked about unrelated business revenue. There are endless places you could end up stepping on a landmine from a tax perspective because the code is so complicated. I think that with a charity, one thing that is often overlooked is whether or not you are registered to collect donations or what you’re registered to collect. Are you registered in all places that you’re actually going to receive funds? That’s one that flies under the radar frequently.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Those are good words. Russ and I have seen this, and I’m sure you have seen that people think because they have a good product on the business side or really good intentions on the other side, money is going to jump their way in the bank. It doesn’t happen that way.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> No, I’ll tell you a perfect example. I was at a conference three weeks ago. We were in a mastermind session. We were talking about the financing side. When the question came up, two of the individuals, they were new entrepreneurs, said, “I’m incorporated. I don’t need to use my personal credit because now I am protected under the veil of incorporation.” My explanation to them is: That is absolutely true. You are protected. But consider it this way. Your LLC or corporation that you set up is another individual. It’s an individual that has absolutely no credit. You are wanting to launch your business and be able to get bank credit and financing and things like that. If you have no credit, chances are you’re not going to get any financing. That’s where you need to bring in your personal financing, your personal credit, to kick-start your business and then at a later date, you can take yourself off of that and everything else is put into the corporate veil. But you do need your personal credit, which is where we run into issues.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We want to be careful with charities. They don’t want to put anything in there of theirs because you can’t get it back out. We want to create a firewall there. But you speak a really good track to lay down here. We must have personal disciplines with our leadership, with our funding, and with our behaviors. If we are going to be effective leaders, we got to get our own house in order as well.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> That’s exactly it. That’s part of what we are going to be doing with this summit.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great. This is part one of a two-part conversation. Part two will be early in 2018 that we will do a formal announcement with the tracks and the programs. We do see a need. What I will create is a forum of SynerVision, an information forum, where you and I will collaborate on the questions. People can come and weigh in on their top issues. If they are starting a small business or a religious institution or community charity or a cause-based organization, any of those tax-exempt, or membership organization, 501(c)6, if they are starting one of those entities, what do they think their biggest needs are? We will have people in the conversation.</p> <p>I’m envisioning—and I didn’t check this out with you, but I am going to blurt it out anyway. I’m envisioning a combination of things. The online learning, but also some live webinars. I am also envisioning some group processes. I find that when I have people, especially at a place we talked about, CEO Space—Danna, you saw it and Russell, you saw it on the SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium—when I am helping one person think through their issues, other people are listening, and everybody is learning from that example. There is group learning that we haven’t talked about, but I think you and I have had similar experiences in that area. What are your thoughts on that?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> I definitely agree. Masterminding is what we’re talking about here. When you think about it, it’s definitely one of the hot topics right now. That is one of the best ways to learn from other successful thought leaders. I know that’s how I’ve learned. We’ve got some mutual friends who are very big thought leaders, and they are holding their own masterminds. Don Ward is one of them. We can’t help but learn from others.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> We can’t help but learn from others. Why reinvent the wheel and struggle if there are people out there willing to give us this help that we need? That is exactly what CEO Space is. You go there in a collaborative environment and you get the information you need. I just came off of Women’s Prosperity Network, which is a nation-wide organization. This is another one that is very collaborative, what they call cooperative, I think. Women, more and more women are starting businesses. This is a very fast-moving market right now.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> My wife and I took some time over the weekend and went down the route to Staunton in Virginia. It’s a really well-kept downtown, both in character and architecture. People were downtown. Business after business was young, female entrepreneurs. I just rejoiced in that. Everyone was a niche, and it was creative, and there was passion behind it. We are in the women’s era. It’s time to leave the old white guys behind. We messed it up; it’s time for a new era.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> It’s amazing how many men have come in and joined the WPN, the Women’s Prosperity Network, because they like that interaction with the women. They like that comradery. I grew up in the architectural/engineering/construction market. In that market, I spent 35 years. Everything was so closely held to the chest. Don’t say this, don’t say that. We don’t want the competition to hear this. I just kept telling them, “Guys, get over it. They already know what’s going on. Get over it. Don’t be afraid. Just stay a step ahead of them.” Women just have a way of cooperating and helping and lifting each other up. If more and more people did that, we would be a lot farther along than where we are right now.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We can make up for lost time. I totally agree with you. Women are very collaborative. At this point in history of recording, it’s time for the small business sector and the charity sector to set a new bar. We have conflict in the government and with football of all places, and people are divided over common issues where we ought to be united for those. We will not go into politics today.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is another channel and example that we are called to be. I want to do a Round Robin here. I want to start with Russ because we need to give the better-looking guy some attention, some airtime. Russ always has these great sound bites, but he has also got some really good contributions. When he speaks, people listen. Russ, two things. Do you have some comments about what Danna has brought up or questions for her? Then tell us about your next live event for your charity work and your program for funding that you have. First with Danna, and then talk about the two things that you have, or others you want to share.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think that everything is relationship-based. This is the thing that we are coming around to. It’s all about relationships. The way that men operate, we’re more linear in our thought process and more results-oriented. Women are more relationship-based. What we’re finding out is that if you want to build partnerships and joint ventures, you are going to have people that resonate with you. If you’re going to get people to collaborate with you in any project, it’s all about relationships. You have to have good relationships. People aren’t just looking for the fast buck, the quick transaction. They’re not going there. That’s not going to work for people. It’s all about relationships. We really need to change that.</p> <p>The other thing is in looking at churches, I have been working with my own envisioning project. Whatever we’re doing, the key is to raise our level of consciousness. This is what we’re finding out with today’s environment. We’re shouting at each other. We’re at a point in time where if we are going to succeed, it doesn’t matter what area you’re talking about. If you’re talking about your spiritual or economic situation, your business, we have to raise our level of consciousness to be more effective, to help more people. That’s my view on that.</p> <p>As for right now, I am working on some new material with a group called Algorithms for Success. I’ve done some training with them. We’re actually strategizing on some of my online programs. I am working on different modulized programs for fundraising and board development. We’re working on rolling out a series of things for 2018 as well as the book <em>Four Steps to Building a High-Performance Nonprofit.</em> I have been working on that for a while; I have not gotten all the interviews I want, but we are going to be launching that online program that I am in the process of revising. That is taking me through the fundamental steps of building a strategy. It’s a 22-point strategy framework that Hugh and David Gruder actually developed a success map.</p> <p>As far as questions for you, what benefits do you think could be realized from cross-sector partnerships? What are the big wins you see businesses getting through this collaboration? What are some of the wins for the nonprofits as well?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Wow. The reason I reached out to Hugh for this program that we’re talking about is because one of the benefits is with the target market that I go after, small businesses that are generally under $500,000 annual revenue or less, a lot of times they can’t afford my services. Much to the chagrin of my husband, I would love to give my services away. But his comment is, “Honey, I’m sorry, but we gotta make money. I don’t want to be working at a j-o-b all my life.”</p> <p>It’s two-sided. In an effort to find a way for them to be able to afford the services that they need, there is grant money out there. That’s what we want to go after. I’m not familiar with nonprofits, and I know that I need a nonprofit. That’s why I reached out to Hugh Ballou. I knew I needed a nonprofit leg to help on the sponsorship side so we could go for sponsorship dollars for these events we are doing, and also for the grant money to help those business owners that qualify to get the education and the resources that they need. That is one of the reasons where I see for-profits and nonprofits can coordinate.</p> <p>The other thing is by businesses partnering with nonprofits, you get that credibility factor. By building in that credibility factor, your clients look at a higher standard for you. Not necessarily at a higher standard, but they become advocates because they know you’re doing good for the community. You’re doing good for society, and they want to promote you because of that. So you get the credibility aspect. You get the market outreach. You get the dollars. There is so much value and benefit that comes from a business partnering with a nonprofit. You have to figure out how to make that work and not try and do it all yourself.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s critical.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, you’re so right. Let’s capture that. What I find over and over again is we help small business owners, especially solopreneurs, learn how to do things and then try to bring in team members. With a charity, it’s imperative that you start with a team. That’s the biggest problem leaders have in the charity/church world. The leader wants to do it all, but really you must engage the board for governance, for fiduciary oversight, and for support, their arms and legs. Lots of really good stuff here.</p> <p>We are coming to the last stretch of our time here. Danna, we got a lot more to talk about. We need to do some heavy lifting. Right now, you are waiting for me to get a document back to you. I am starting to get a clearer vision of the potential. Our problem is going to be to scale it to what we can handle to begin with. I know the energy field here is really good.</p> <p>Russ, where do people go for your stuff that you talked about? Your book and your online program, your website. Where do people go to find that?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> For the four steps to building a high-performance nonprofit, you go to bit.ly/fourstepshpnpo. I will drop that in the chat box so that people can see it. If you’d like to have a talk with me, I do discovery sessions with folks. You can go to bit.ly/bookruss to get on my calendar, and we will have a discovery session about whatever concerns you. I am in the process of having people rebuild my website, so I’ll have free offerings. I have a donor series and some board series things that people will be able to tap into once my website rebuild is done. I’m working on some other courses and writing articles. All of that stuff will be available to everyone out there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want to know when you sleep. Do you sleep?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I sleep quite a bit, maybe more than I should. I’m finding as more time passes by, I sleep a little bit more. The real opportunity, I think, in this is to get people talking to one another.</p> <p>This thought crossed my mind. I was thinking of asking Danna: What is the high point, the one single thought that needs to be conveyed to people on both sides, for-profit and nonprofit? What would you say is the single thread that needs to run through their minds when they are debating about whether or not they should collaborate?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m going to let her think about that a minute. That’s a great question. You took the words right out of my mouth. Danna, think about that for a minute.</p> <p>We need to think about profit in our charities. That is the gas that is going to help us fully achieve our mission and vision. Thenonprofitexchange.org is the place you can view this video a few hours after we stop here. I will put the links for Russell’s website and Danna’s website. You will already be on the SynerVision website when you go to thenonprofitexchange.org. That will take you to SynerVision for this Tuesday program.</p> <p>Danna, we are going to let you close us out with Russell’s question that you have been pondering on. Your website is…</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Marketatomy.com. It is also being revised, so there may be a little bit of Greek in there right now. Just ignore it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have to stop here. Danna, will you leave that closing thought for us?</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Russell, correct me if I’m wrong. You sked me what is the one thing that should be considered when thinking about collaborating with a nonprofit or a for-profit. First, you need to be clear in your messaging. You need to be clear in what you want so that you can communicate it clearly, and then also synergy. For instance, me teaming with Hugh, he is a strategist. We have the same processes and things like that, so that creates that synergy. Does that answer your question?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That does. Synergy is all about synergy and alignment.</p> <p><strong>Danna:</strong> Alignment, yep.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That was my inspiration for combining vision and synergy. It’s the synergy we get from the common vision, which is our trademark. Danna Olivo from Orlando, Florida, thank you for sharing your wisdom and your time. Russell, thank you for your friendship and support. Thank you both for being here.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Nonprofits That Work: The Camera Heritage Museum, in Staunton, VA</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofits-that-work-the-camera-heritage-museum-in-staunton-va</link>
      <description>The Camera Heritage Museum http://www.cameraheritagemuseum.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Oct 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8094d028-b329-11eb-9f0f-b73290bd29d5/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Founder David Schwartz tells his story</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Camera Heritage Museum http://www.cameraheritagemuseum.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>The Camera Heritage Museum <a href="http://www.cameraheritagemuseum.com">http://www.cameraheritagemuseum.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Review of Highlights from Recent Podcasts</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/review-of-highlights-from-recent-podcasts</link>
      <description>Highlighting the best ideas from the best sessions is our intention. Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis point to interviews for more listening and more personal growth.
 Here's the Transcript
  
 NPE Hugh &amp; Russell
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s an episode of the Nonprofit Exchange that is the Hugh and Russell show. Russell David Dennis and Hugh McPherson Ballou, we are going to chat today about some of the great things that we’ve heard in the past podcasts. We create a lot of content, and it’s time to reflect on that. Russell, how are you doing today?
 Russell Dennis: It is a beautiful day here in Denver, Colorado. It did snow a little bit yesterday. Now it’s gone back to Denver-type weather, at least for the front range here. There is a beautiful cap on the mountains that you can see miles and miles coming in. Life is good.
 Hugh: Your life is always good. You make it that way. When I lived in Colorado, they had a saying: If you don’t like the weather, just wait five minutes.
 Russell: It does change frequently. We are expecting some pretty mild weather for this time of year. But the skiers are happy. We got a natural cap. The snow machines are going. Let the skiing begin. It will continue through May.
 Hugh: Through May. Wow. So we are live on Facebook. We record our podcasts as a live video feed, so anybody who is listening to the Nonprofit Exchange podcast, feel free to join us on Facebook live on Tuesdays at 2:00 Eastern Time. You go to thenonprofitexchange.org, and it will lead you there. We post to the past sessions and create new sessions every Tuesday.
 Russell, I find that when we are doing it live that we have unexpected participants that join us on Facebook. I also find that there is an energy with creating that live event. What is your experience with this?
 Russell: I have had people come in and share their experience because it enhances the program. It always helps to have people ask questions that are burning in their minds. One of the things to consider because as nonprofit leaders, you’re running an enterprise. It’s a business like a lot of others. The big difference is the tax status. There are problems with people and business and just operating that can be solved and leadership issues. These are things that people want to talk about. I like to bring people things that they want to hear about. I love when people ask questions because it gives us points for discussion. We find out what sort of things are important to you out there, and that is what matters to us.
 Hugh: I was with both Burt Oliva and David Dunworth two weeks ago tomorrow down in Florida, and we managed to dodge the weather and do some meaningful things in between the storms. As I spend time with both of those gentlemen who are both watching right now, I really appreciate the level of skill they have and the level of expertise. David Dunworth has been on this podcast. I’ve talked to Burt, and he and his team are going to be part of this interview process next month. Their calendar is pretty full. I look forward to having them. The fact that you are connected to them is also great.
 We have been doing this Nonprofit Exchange. Our magazine editor, Todd Greer, Dr. Greer is an organizational psychologist. He has got a degree in organizational leadership… *audio interruption, clearly a network issue*
 Russell: Can you hear me, Hugh? Can you hear me okay?
 Hugh: Did I lose you and you’re back?
 Russell: I lost you for a brief-
 Hugh: Did you go away? Did you hear what I just said?
 Russell: Very little of that. We had a little bit of a freeze there momentarily.
 Hugh: High tech is really great when it works. When high tech works, it’s great. When it doesn’t work, it really stinks. What I was talking about the history of this podcast, and it starts as a video and then goes into the audio on Nonprofit Exchange podcast, which you can find on iTunes and Stitcher and most every platform. The Nonprofit Exchange. Russ, you have showed up faithfully as unofficial co-host, but you are trying to get out of it now. You are part of this process. How long have we been doing this together? Has it been a year?
 *more technical difficulties*
 Russell: We started fairly early in the year on a consistent basis. I popped in and out on some broadcasts in late 2016, but I’ve been consistent since probably about February. We’ve been co-piloting during the week. One of the things that has been pointed out because we’ve had people that have come in and talked about the use of technology for nonprofits and using it well. Technology is something that can enhance what we’re doing, but it’s not primarily what we’re doing. It’s important to use it well as a nonprofit leader not to be afraid of it. Technology can do a lot of things for you particularly when it comes to getting your message out.
 *more technical difficulties*
 I have been talking about technology and how we can leverage it to make it work. It’s not a magic bullet, but it’s something that can afford nonprofits the opportunity to get their organizations out in front of other people, whether it’s through Facebook or using Google. Google has put millions and millions of dollars into the nonprofit arena by offering grants to nonprofits to actually get their message out there.
 *more technical difficulties*
 You might be having a bandwidth thing going on there. Hang in there. I don’t know if you have some apps open that you might be able to close.
 Hugh: I was going to blame it on you. I’m hoping that audio continued and I didn’t hear anything, but it could have been my own frailty here. I did change devices so I am on a different router now.
 Russell: It seems to have cleared the problem up. I was talking about technology because that is so important for everything. One of the things that I was talking about getting messages out there, but it can be used to reach your audience. You can actually do a little bit more in terms of determining who the people are that are listening to you. You can get your message out in more cost-effective ways than you were ever able to do before. Like anything else, the thing that has been the overarching message that our guests have put out as far as using technology and social media and connecting with people is it’s all about relationships and building strong relationships with people you serve and those that you serve with. Technology is not a substitute for that, but it’s a way to factually extend that reach in a cost-effective manner.
 Hugh: Absolutely. Russ, let’s talk about some impressions from- Tell me again when you and I started doing this together.
 Russell: I think we started moving consistently in February because I pop in and out in 2016. But I’ve started showing up consistently. We have been here. I have been on just about every broadcast. I have had the honor and privilege of standing in a few times for you when you had other things that you had to get done. It’s been beautiful. It’s been a great thing for me. I have done other broadcasting, too. I’d like this talk show hosting. I think it suits me.
 Hugh: You do it very well, and you’ve had me as a guest on your show. You know we have learned, in our association with our group called CEO Space, the power of cooperation, and we have taken it to the collaborative level. There is plenty of room for everybody to play because it’s a big playing field, and we bring it to a new paradigm.
 Let’s look over some of the past podcasts. We have had the pleasure of interviewing some really amazing people. I don’t know about you, but I learn from every single one of them. As a matter of fact, every time we talk, I learn something from you. You have some incredible sound bites. You are very well-read. You continue working on self. I remember Jim Rohn would commonly say in his speeches, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.” That is my sense of Russell Dennis. You are always improving your own self. You have done many worthy things in your career. What you are doing is bringing all that value to people who need it. Thank you for being here, and thank you for sharing your wisdom.
 Let’s collaborate on thinking about the wisdom we’ve gathered from some of these people we have interviewed recently. What are some of the messages that jump out to you from some of those great interviews we have had?
 Russell: Here’s the panel discussion that we had that really sticks in my mind. Several weeks ago, we were talking about diversity. This is a discussion that I’ve been having with people all over the place. In fact, I had a discussion with one of my classmates from the Sponsorship Boot Camp around diversity. This lady is a naval officer. She was a pilot, so she experienced some interesting reactions from her fellow naval pilots. It’s pretty much a boys’ club. When we get into diversity, we can get stuck on race, but there’s not just race. There is age, gender, and socioeconomic status, which is really critical. Some of the things that I’ve read in the nonprofit press show a lack of diversity in our nonprofit boardrooms. That has an impact when you don’t have a diversity of leadership or a diversity of thinking styles. You’re leaving a lot on the table, and that’s been uppermost in my mind lately as far as some of our discussions go.
 Hugh: Well, that’s Dr. Thyonne Gordon you’re referring to. The more I talk to her, the more I appreciate the depth of her wisdom and character. The context behind both her and Mr. William Lewis, they are both doctors and very skilled people. I was the white guy on the call, but it wasn’t, as you have carefully placed, about race. We think it’s about race. That’s a factor. But how about boomers and millennials? How do we get along? We don’t, because we don’t understand each other. The gender, you talked about. The sexual preference, what is your lifestyle? Did you grow up in the ghetto? There is so many dynamics.
 When I participated years ago in working with a company in Germany that holds a competitive event called the World Choir Games, there were 400 choirs that show up from 100 countries. That is diversity. That is amazing diversity. People come together around a common thread, which is music, excellence in music. There is community that happens, not because you force it to happen, but because we all celebrate our diversity and celebrate the commonality that is music. I think we forget to think about the things we have in common. We think about what we have that is different rather than what we have in common.
 Russ, even within a white church that has mostly people from one generation and one economic sector, there are diverse opinions, but they are trapped in this container, not being able to get outside their point of view. Somebody from outside to ask questions: What about this? It opens up the conversation. We do get closed in without thinking about possibilities. We just think about what we have always done. What I have gained out of that particular interview, which was the brilliance of two of our guests, is there are some things we can think about. Here are some other values that we could bring. Is it about diversity, or is it about inclusion? Is it about bringing creative energy into your organization? That call was not only about race; it was about a whole plethora of other really powerful things. Am I remembering some of the same things you are?
 Russell: Yes, that’s true. That is what I took away. Here is where you have these things potentially show up in a bad way, if you don’t have that diversity. It’s understanding the populations that you serve. A lot of the populations look like everybody else, but some of them don’t. If you’re running a nonprofit and you’re trying to serve a population that you don’t have a solid connection with, it could reduce your effectiveness and your efficiency in doing that. There are all sorts of problems and other articles. I would love to bring those up. We discussed maybe doing another panel, and I have talked to a couple of people who would be good for that once we decide we want to do another one.
 Hugh: Let’s spin on that a minute. If you’re listening to this podcast and diversity, inclusion, and building creativity on your board and your culture generally, if that is a topic of interest for you, please go to the podcast and do some comments. It is on the SynerVision website, and there is a place for comments. We very much welcome comments. If you are really into growing the culture in a creative way, I don’t think you can do without some diversity. What do you think, Russ?
 Russell: You’ve gotta have it. That has been recognized by a lot of the new research that is out there. I read in the Chronicle of Philanthropy some of their findings. Those ads are out there. It’s really important. People are finding that this is critical. The Denver Foundation, right here where I work, they did an inclusion project and put quite a bit of money and research into it several years ago to actually tackle that problem. They have great material on their website, denverfoundation.org. They actually put some of the questions that they ask with limited information on some of the participants and some of the types of questions that they ask. They will be happy to talk with you about it if you want more information.
 Hugh: Thank you for bringing this up. This is a really important topic. I think there should be a series of group discussions on this topic because it is such a big topic. It is such an important topic. When we had that call and I did a debriefing for the two guests, they both said there is a lot more content and sub-themes. We introduced so many themes in that call. What I think you ought to do is challenge me, or challenge each other, to put a series of these conversations together. We might have to do it not at this time, but do it at this time and broadcast it to be able to accommodate the variety of schedules. I want Wornie Reed, the race professor at Virginia Tech, on the call, and Andy Morikawa, my original founding board member, who have really good wisdom on boards and diversity. There are some others that you and I have talked about. I think there are lots of subthemes for us to work through and develop. What do you think of us having a series of conversations about that topic?
 Russell: I’d love to do that. As a matter of fact, I have a preliminary agreement. I’ve got Andie Sue Phillips who will be appearing on the Nonprofit Culture Success show on November 1 at 4 pm EST. She and I are going to be talking about diversity. We are both veterans. She is very interested in coming on and doing the panel and talking. She has experienced this, and she has actually put together a very interesting program that a number of major businesses are looking at on diversity. They found her and approached her on the subject. I’m excited about that conversation that we’ll have coming up where she can talk about some of those tools.
 And we have a number of things. I think you could spend an hour on gender on one program. You could spend an hour on age, particularly the disconnect between boomers like ourselves and millennials. It’s really a communication thing. A good friend of mine, Brooke Chestnut, who I went through the Colorado Speakers Academy with, has put some programs together to help organizations that are looking to recruit millennials actually get that done. He put together an interesting concept that he called reverse mentoring. I think it’s about time for me to give young Mr. Chestnut a call.
 Hugh: He could be one of those panelists, couldn’t he?
 Russell: Very easily. That is a piece of his work. Another good friend in the area, Russ Manery, does a lot of work around making sure you hire the right people. He is masterful at that. He was on my show a few weeks back. You got the conversation around age. You got a conversation around gender. Her being a veteran and me being a veteran, that opens up all sorts of doors for this conversation, and I’m looking forward to that.
 Hugh: Me, too.
 Russell: There is a lot to unpack there. Then of course there is socioeconomic status. People who actually are in need of a lot of the services that nonprofits provide. A big mistake I’ve seen people make over the years is that they have got wonderful ideas and they want to help, but somewhere along the way, they neglected to talk to the people that they are actually putting the program together for. Lo and behold, they had everything to sign, they had it funded, they built it, and nobody came. It’s really important to talk to these folks and find out how they want to be helped because if they’re accessing different services, they don’t know where to buy them so to speak. They are experiencing these gaps, and there is something that falls outside the purview of the guidelines. They are actually struggling to fill all the needs. This happens with everything, especially with school. Students can go out and get scholarships and not be able to take advantage of them because of the hidden costs like the fees, the flights, and the textbooks. There are just things that show up that nobody accounts for. Thandie Caraway was on the Nonprofit Culture Success show last week. I have to put that replay up.
 Hugh: People will be listening to this way after the dates you gave, so let’s give a link so people can find that.
 Russell: I will.
 Hugh: What is that link?
 Russell: For the Nonprofit Culture Success show, it’s on Facebook. I have that every week. It’s a webinar similar to this broadcast. I deliver it the exact same way. If you look up NP Culture Success on Facebook, you will be connected there.
 Hugh: NP, meaning Nonprofit, Culture of Success. That is a really good program. You interviewed me a few weeks ago. I have been in a thread with some really fine folks.
 Russell, when you were talking about programs they hadn’t checked out, it reminds me of a Robert Frost poem: “We sit in a circle and suppose/the secret sits in the center and knows.” Does that resonate at all?
 Russell: That’s pretty good stuff. David weighed in and said there is a lot we could talk about where diversity is concerned. These types of discussions are what I really love to see. I would love to have more people weigh in. You want to know what people are interested in and struggling with because that is another way we can add value.
 Hugh: I’m going to ask David Dunworth what some of those topics are that come to his mind. He said there are lots of topics that would enhance the facets of the show.
 Russell, we’ve been looking at some of the past podcasts. Last week we had our friend Joe White who had an amazing presentation on goals. I teach goals. I said in that show that Joe did that module in my workshop. You have done your module twice. Everybody I’ve had present a module does a far better job than I do. Joe came in and presented goals, and it was resonant with what we have defined in SynerVision. He did a stunning job of that. He talked about his GPS system for setting goals, which I found to be very powerful. The Covey principle, sharpen the saw, comes to mind with people like that. We are always working on our tools, sharpening the saw so we can be better. You and I are no spring chickens. We have learned a lot of stuff; we have a lot of stuff. But we are not sitting on our laurels. We are growing our own skill and being able to share the wisdom and experience and skills we have learned over the years. Do you remember that conversation with Joe? Does anything come to mind from that for you?
 Russell: The thing I loved about his GPS system is that it is incredibly powerful. There is a lot of power in it. The power comes from the simplicity that he rolls it out there with. Almost everybody that drives can relate to a GPS. It makes me wonder how we ever got anywhere without them. They have become so widespread that we are used to them. The power is the focus that comes from using a simple system, is what comes through. I think that any good system is easy to access, easy to understand, and easy to use. That comes from our friend Brendan Bouchard; that is not one of my originals. But it makes perfect sense because a lot of people in the industry, and I have had that conversation with him and other people in the personal development industry: maybe two or three out of every hundred that actually pick up a system implement it. This is where I want to help people get beyond that. If there is something that people can use in simple steps, they are going to be more likely to apply it. It’s not going to be overwhelming. That was Joe’s GPS system. It is a textbook example of that principle.
 Hugh: He did a very good job of explaining it and laying it out. And he had a free gift. We don’t number the episodes of Nonprofit Exchange. If you find the one on Joe White setting powerful goals, that is a good one.
 We are going to expand some other topics coming up. David Dunworth had filled in some. One was outsourcing and its challenges because of preconceived notions. I find a lot of charities and churches and synagogues say we don’t have time to do all these things, yet they want to hire people. You could outsource some of these things if you had sufficient time to develop your plan and methodology so you could hand it off.
 One of the basic tenets of transformational leadership is being able to take things off your plate and empower some other people to do. You and I have talked about the burnout rate with nonprofit leaders, and it is unusually high. Part of it is we get stuck as leaders doing too much, and then we are not effective as we could be because we have too much on our plate. One of them is outsourcing. We think giving things to other people is a weakness in leadership when really it is just the opposite.
 Some other topics that he threw on the table were gender bias, the glass ceiling, young versus old, the color barrier, and the multi-culture world is here. Those are some of the topics. I think besides being the glass ceiling, and that is commonly used with women who are limited- I find there is a lot more opportunity for growth and taking charge for women in the nonprofit sector because they have a unique ability to engage people and bring in some fresh ideas. A lot of the old white guys like me get stale. There is a freshness in them, especially the woman leaders of any race or age. I think there is a great opportunity.
 The ceiling that John Maxwell talks about is the lid. The lid is our ability to lead the organization. That is the leadership issue, not a diversity issue. But it also could be a diversity issue if we had somebody that brought different skills. Are we going to put a lid on them? Many times, we have this scarcity thinking. It’s not just the lid that Maxwell talks about. His framing is that the organization cannot develop any further than the leaders’ ability to lead it, so there is the law of the lid. Sometimes, it’s not the leader’s fault; the organization and the culture puts a lid on that leader. “No, we don’t do it that way here.” You and I have seen circumstances where that happens. We have been in groups where we have participated mutually.
 Talk about that a minute. The framing of leadership and the ability of the board to let the leader lead, if they show some competence. What are some things you have seen?
 Russell: I’m working with the group now that has actually got good intent. It’s a new organization. They asked me to serve on their board. There have been some struggles with understanding what it is that they want. That speaks to the outsourcing that David was talking about. You have to understand what it is that you want in order to be a good customer. That takes some definition. A lot of social profit leaders are new to doing what they’re doing from a social profit realm, or they are taking on a big challenge. There could actually be some fear around whether some things are going to work. They are trying new things. They are trying things outside of their comfort zone. Those are things that can hold folks back. It’s really expanding the thinking outside of the old traditional limited realms. Good leaders build on the leaders around them. There is no better way to look good than to have a great team of leaders around you because they are actually doing the stuff on the ground. If you are the leader providing direction, these folks actually make you look good.
 It’s really when you bring people onto a board or you are a board and you bring somebody to lead your organization, you are putting them in a position of trust. There is a lot that you are expecting them to do. If you don’t give them the tools or the autonomy to actually get things done, to leverage that creativity, you are going to have a little bit of trouble.
 One of the things my good friend Doug Crude talks about is the brilliance of the team. You have a lot of brilliance under your roof, a lot of people that are dedicated and motivated. But if you suppress that talent and you don’t let them shine the way they want to shine, they will walk away. I don’t think that it’s fully a pay issue; it’s really an issue of am I making a difference here? This is really important for millennials. They want to do work that matters. They don’t want to be micro-managed. Nobody wants to be micro-managed. It’s having that trust for your team and not being afraid to make mistakes that will propel you forward. Those are several things that transformational leaders do.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I am looking over some of the recent podcasts. We do develop a transcript from the interviews and put it in the Nonprofit Exchange podcast. Going back a while, you and I did a podcast on the five top things that block a leader’s success. That one had a lot of plays; it was in April.
 There was also an interview we did with Dr. David Gruder, our friend who is an organizational developmental psychologist. It was about the people who are controlling the board with their anger. There were some things he gave us that were really helpful. We have seen lots of boards where they say they can’t do something because it will upset so-and-so. So we tiptoe around the topic, and they avoid dealing with it head-on. What I heard with that and some other of my studies is when you have conflict, you move toward it and remain calm and address the facts very directly. We tend to avoid in the effort to be nice. When we are trying to be nice to one person, like on a board, then we are devaluing every other person because we have let that person take us hostage. That was the interview with Dr. Gruder, which was before our discussion on those five things. That one spoke to me especially in a special way because I see that kind of thing happening an awful lot. That was back in February, believe it or not.
 Russell: I think I’ve got that- We did that in June, I believe. I believe the February discussion was the discussion on the relationship that we have with money.
 Hugh: The shadow- you’re right.
 Russell: That particular program, he talked about the strong personalities on the board. If one person dominates a lot of the conversations, he talked about how they go about really getting their way and actually short-circuiting any conversation that people have. That is just not a good thing. As a matter of fact, what I’m going to do is drop that into the chat box. That’s a good one to go back and listen to if you have a strong personality that you are concerned about.
 Dr. Gordon did a podcast that addressed boards, too. Hers was also in June or somewhere close by. That one was April 11. That was about empowering your board and structuring a good board. I was actually absent that week that you and Dr. Gordon talked about boards. What were some of the things that she brought up?
 Hugh: There were a number of things. But it was empowering the board by asking them to do things. Going back to David Gruder’s piece, we let other people’s emotions control us. We have our own scripts that sometimes are not true. There was some synergy in the two presentations with Dr. Gruder and Dr. Gordon. She encouraged us to step up and ask board members to contribute money, time, and talent, all three. We tend to overcompensate by saying, “I’ll do it for them; they’re busy,” when that’s not what they want. What they want is meaningful contribution. They are on the board because they want to give their skillset. That doesn’t mean they are going to work every day for you, but it does mean they want to do something that is meaningful and see an impact from the organization. Her presentation is very valuable, and it’s one of the most listened-to episodes on the podcast over the last three years. Dr. Thyonne Gordon, you said it was in April. That is a very popular podcast. That is a very important podcast. It’s on a topic that I think a lot of boards struggle with.
 David Gruder talked about the shadow in February, but he talked about the anger specifically, how people control boards with their anger. That is something that we tend to cave into but is not very helpful.
 We are talking about David Dunworth who is watching us on Facebook at the moment. He talked about the brand and connecting it to the board. The board has impact on the brand. The board represents our brand. Your employees represent the brand. You represent the brand. We tend to think, Oh I’m a nonprofit; I don’t have a brand. It’s important that you have a brand identity, a brand promise. It’s important that you know what your brand is, and everybody supports that brand. David has lots of skills. His particular channel that day was talking about your brand and what I remember coming out of that is how people behave around that brand. Do you have some thoughts around David and what he shared?
 Russell: It addressed leadership. His key message was that leaders are actually the brand, and they present the brand they build that once they build that, they safeguard it. They provide the direction and make sure. The brand is really what you’re all about. A lot of times, the word “brand” will bring up thoughts around some sort of packaging or snazzy jingle. We think about that sort of thing. We think about it in terms of marketing, but a brand is really a statement about who you are and everything that you do flows out of that. David was talking eloquently about the leader’s responsibility to make sure you have all the integrity and the effectiveness around that brand. You build on that, and it guides what you do. Leaders actually reflect that brand that your nonprofit is out there. That is a very good podcast. I did put that in the chat, too.
 Those will be in the notes for folks that missed those particular ones. I drop those in the notes because they are great to go back to. I tend to make a list and go out and grab all of these links as they go up so that I could look at them because there is so much that we learn from those that you can’t absorb it all. I have to go back and listen to them again and again. That is the beauty of the Internet. We archive these videos, and they are there for our review. The podcasts are even better because you can listen to those on the fly. I put them on my iPod, and I can plug my iPod in the car and get it to go. You don’t even have to fight with CDs anymore. There is technology again, and it is beautiful when it works, which is most of the time.
 Hugh: It is. “The Seven Essential Skills for Nonprofit Leadership Success,” that is one that you and I did. We went around that number seven because you had found seven to be a powerful number. The podcast that Todd Greer did years ago was on community. That is by far the most listened-to episode. It was relaunched on August 11 as an archive replay.
 The other one is “Drucker Challenge: Managing Oneself in the Digital Age.” That was Frances Hesselbein and her leadership institute. She is an amazing person who is much older than you and I but shows up to work because she has a passion for creating value in people’s lives. She is very clear on who she is and what she offers.
 The other one I wanted to lift up—We are coming close to our time. I like not to go over too much—is the due diligence one with Thomas Moviel. You interviewed Thomas. That was one of the times you got to do an interview and didn’t have the burden of Hugh Ballou getting in your way. Before you launch an idea, can you do some due diligence? Does the world need your nonprofit? I thought that was relevant. I met him at a conference and invited him in because- You may have more relevant statistics than this, but my memory is that half of the nonprofits that are formed every year close. They are not able to fully achieve their mission at any level. That might partly be because the world didn’t need your idea. You go to all the trouble of launching something before you did a check-up to see if it’s really needed. Do you remember that interview you did with Thomas?
 Russell: Yes, it was quite a while ago. One of the things that David pointed out is that the brand philosophy and its tenets have to be present throughout the whole organization, not just with the leadership. Thomas and I talked about some of that identity, but what we were really talking about was making sure that you understand what it is that you do and what you do differently. The concept behind “Does the world need your nonprofit?” is understanding clearly what the problems that you solve are and focusing on things that you really do well. That was a big key takeaway that a lot of folks just don’t do that as well as they could. So we talked a little bit about some tools for doing that, but most of the emphasis was on the importance of doing that, whether it’s with a program or specific people that you go to attract to your organization. It’s really having that focus on the people that you’re serving.
 Hugh: Amen. That was a really good interview. I saw him on Saturday and thanked him for that. I just had a hunch that would be something valuable. It’s been one of the most listened-to episodes.
 As we do a wrap here, Russell, I thought it would be good for us to pause in our pretty active schedule of interviewing thought leaders and for you and I to reflect on some of the lessons and help people think about what they need next. As I am looking over the list since you and I have been doing this, there are a number of very powerful interviews that have of course the transcription there, but they have things that could be implemented.
 The David Corbin interview about brand slaughter, which is the title of his book. The Penny Zenker interview about how to gain control over your life. It’s about that time robber. George Fraser talked about building a legacy. He has the largest African-American network in the world and is very humble about it. Don Green talked about the Napoleon Hill Foundation. He is going to contribute for the magazine about boards. That board uses business principles to support that nonprofit. Our friend Shannon Gronich did getting unlimited publicity. There is a whole methodology under that, which she is so brilliant about.
 Russell, as we draw to a close, I customarily ask our guests to think about what they want to leave people with. Maybe you and I could take a turn doing that. What is your thought that from all the wisdom that we’ve ben able to partake in, what would you say to people listening to this podcast that you would wish they could do with some of this wisdom?
 Russell: I would say refer back to it regularly. Never stop looking for ways to do what you do better. Always work from your strengths as much as possible. Find partners and other people to collaborate with so that you can cover those areas that you don’t necessarily do well because you are going to be much more effective just living it, working in your genius, and trusting that to make an impact than trying to create a new genius for yourself. Do what you do. Do your thing. That is really the most important thing: work from those strengths, and always be learning. Always keep learning. Always continue to look for opportunities to collaborate. Learning is a never-ending process. Don’ be afraid to try new things. If you are feeling stuck, stop and think about some of the people that you already have in your payroll or who are volunteering or who are writing your checks. It won’t hurt to ask your donors for ideas. Ask them what they’d like to see. It’s about getting people more and more engaged with what you’re doing and letting them know that what they’re contributing, whether it’s time, treasure, talent, or all three, how important that is. Let them know what’s possible through that regularly.
 Hugh: Russ, that is really great. You took the words out of my mouth. I find people say, “I don’t have time to listen to podcasts.” Do you ever drive in your car anywhere? I never have anything but public radio and my podcasts, and I learn every time I listen to my podcast. What I appreciate about Russell David Dennis is that you are always working on your skill. You have a book you’re working on. What you pointed out is that just because you listened to it or read it doesn’t mean you know it all. What I have learned from our friend Ken Courtright is he goes back and reads great books again with a different colored highlighter. He finds that when he goes back and highlights passages that stand out to him, they are different than the ones he highlighted the first time. Either you didn’t see it or understand it, or you weren’t ready to learn it yet. I applaud what you said. That is a very good reminder for me. Just because you read it, just because you listened to it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t listen to it again because you are ready to learn the next thing.
 Russell, I’m grateful for you. Thank you for being on this series of podcasts. I would like to encourage people to go back and listen to this library of wonderful resources that we have as a gift for you. Please share your comments and the podcast on social media or on your email because we want people to listen to them. They are free. This is our gift to you.
 Russell, thank you for today. I am grateful to you, sir.
 Russell: It’s very good. If folks don’t already, keep going back to the SynerVision page, the Nonprofit Culture Success page on Facebook, and the Nonprofit Exchange Channel. Make sure you subscribe to that on YouTube. Check back regularly. Go in the comment areas and let us know what you think and what you want to hear about because we are here to serve you and help you make more impact in your communities.
 Hugh: Good words, Russell. Thank you so much.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/80af7658-b329-11eb-9f0f-e7db6e3b1726/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis Share Highlights from 2017 Podcasts</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Highlighting the best ideas from the best sessions is our intention. Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis point to interviews for more listening and more personal growth.
 Here's the Transcript
  
 NPE Hugh &amp; Russell
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s an episode of the Nonprofit Exchange that is the Hugh and Russell show. Russell David Dennis and Hugh McPherson Ballou, we are going to chat today about some of the great things that we’ve heard in the past podcasts. We create a lot of content, and it’s time to reflect on that. Russell, how are you doing today?
 Russell Dennis: It is a beautiful day here in Denver, Colorado. It did snow a little bit yesterday. Now it’s gone back to Denver-type weather, at least for the front range here. There is a beautiful cap on the mountains that you can see miles and miles coming in. Life is good.
 Hugh: Your life is always good. You make it that way. When I lived in Colorado, they had a saying: If you don’t like the weather, just wait five minutes.
 Russell: It does change frequently. We are expecting some pretty mild weather for this time of year. But the skiers are happy. We got a natural cap. The snow machines are going. Let the skiing begin. It will continue through May.
 Hugh: Through May. Wow. So we are live on Facebook. We record our podcasts as a live video feed, so anybody who is listening to the Nonprofit Exchange podcast, feel free to join us on Facebook live on Tuesdays at 2:00 Eastern Time. You go to thenonprofitexchange.org, and it will lead you there. We post to the past sessions and create new sessions every Tuesday.
 Russell, I find that when we are doing it live that we have unexpected participants that join us on Facebook. I also find that there is an energy with creating that live event. What is your experience with this?
 Russell: I have had people come in and share their experience because it enhances the program. It always helps to have people ask questions that are burning in their minds. One of the things to consider because as nonprofit leaders, you’re running an enterprise. It’s a business like a lot of others. The big difference is the tax status. There are problems with people and business and just operating that can be solved and leadership issues. These are things that people want to talk about. I like to bring people things that they want to hear about. I love when people ask questions because it gives us points for discussion. We find out what sort of things are important to you out there, and that is what matters to us.
 Hugh: I was with both Burt Oliva and David Dunworth two weeks ago tomorrow down in Florida, and we managed to dodge the weather and do some meaningful things in between the storms. As I spend time with both of those gentlemen who are both watching right now, I really appreciate the level of skill they have and the level of expertise. David Dunworth has been on this podcast. I’ve talked to Burt, and he and his team are going to be part of this interview process next month. Their calendar is pretty full. I look forward to having them. The fact that you are connected to them is also great.
 We have been doing this Nonprofit Exchange. Our magazine editor, Todd Greer, Dr. Greer is an organizational psychologist. He has got a degree in organizational leadership… *audio interruption, clearly a network issue*
 Russell: Can you hear me, Hugh? Can you hear me okay?
 Hugh: Did I lose you and you’re back?
 Russell: I lost you for a brief-
 Hugh: Did you go away? Did you hear what I just said?
 Russell: Very little of that. We had a little bit of a freeze there momentarily.
 Hugh: High tech is really great when it works. When high tech works, it’s great. When it doesn’t work, it really stinks. What I was talking about the history of this podcast, and it starts as a video and then goes into the audio on Nonprofit Exchange podcast, which you can find on iTunes and Stitcher and most every platform. The Nonprofit Exchange. Russ, you have showed up faithfully as unofficial co-host, but you are trying to get out of it now. You are part of this process. How long have we been doing this together? Has it been a year?
 *more technical difficulties*
 Russell: We started fairly early in the year on a consistent basis. I popped in and out on some broadcasts in late 2016, but I’ve been consistent since probably about February. We’ve been co-piloting during the week. One of the things that has been pointed out because we’ve had people that have come in and talked about the use of technology for nonprofits and using it well. Technology is something that can enhance what we’re doing, but it’s not primarily what we’re doing. It’s important to use it well as a nonprofit leader not to be afraid of it. Technology can do a lot of things for you particularly when it comes to getting your message out.
 *more technical difficulties*
 I have been talking about technology and how we can leverage it to make it work. It’s not a magic bullet, but it’s something that can afford nonprofits the opportunity to get their organizations out in front of other people, whether it’s through Facebook or using Google. Google has put millions and millions of dollars into the nonprofit arena by offering grants to nonprofits to actually get their message out there.
 *more technical difficulties*
 You might be having a bandwidth thing going on there. Hang in there. I don’t know if you have some apps open that you might be able to close.
 Hugh: I was going to blame it on you. I’m hoping that audio continued and I didn’t hear anything, but it could have been my own frailty here. I did change devices so I am on a different router now.
 Russell: It seems to have cleared the problem up. I was talking about technology because that is so important for everything. One of the things that I was talking about getting messages out there, but it can be used to reach your audience. You can actually do a little bit more in terms of determining who the people are that are listening to you. You can get your message out in more cost-effective ways than you were ever able to do before. Like anything else, the thing that has been the overarching message that our guests have put out as far as using technology and social media and connecting with people is it’s all about relationships and building strong relationships with people you serve and those that you serve with. Technology is not a substitute for that, but it’s a way to factually extend that reach in a cost-effective manner.
 Hugh: Absolutely. Russ, let’s talk about some impressions from- Tell me again when you and I started doing this together.
 Russell: I think we started moving consistently in February because I pop in and out in 2016. But I’ve started showing up consistently. We have been here. I have been on just about every broadcast. I have had the honor and privilege of standing in a few times for you when you had other things that you had to get done. It’s been beautiful. It’s been a great thing for me. I have done other broadcasting, too. I’d like this talk show hosting. I think it suits me.
 Hugh: You do it very well, and you’ve had me as a guest on your show. You know we have learned, in our association with our group called CEO Space, the power of cooperation, and we have taken it to the collaborative level. There is plenty of room for everybody to play because it’s a big playing field, and we bring it to a new paradigm.
 Let’s look over some of the past podcasts. We have had the pleasure of interviewing some really amazing people. I don’t know about you, but I learn from every single one of them. As a matter of fact, every time we talk, I learn something from you. You have some incredible sound bites. You are very well-read. You continue working on self. I remember Jim Rohn would commonly say in his speeches, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.” That is my sense of Russell Dennis. You are always improving your own self. You have done many worthy things in your career. What you are doing is bringing all that value to people who need it. Thank you for being here, and thank you for sharing your wisdom.
 Let’s collaborate on thinking about the wisdom we’ve gathered from some of these people we have interviewed recently. What are some of the messages that jump out to you from some of those great interviews we have had?
 Russell: Here’s the panel discussion that we had that really sticks in my mind. Several weeks ago, we were talking about diversity. This is a discussion that I’ve been having with people all over the place. In fact, I had a discussion with one of my classmates from the Sponsorship Boot Camp around diversity. This lady is a naval officer. She was a pilot, so she experienced some interesting reactions from her fellow naval pilots. It’s pretty much a boys’ club. When we get into diversity, we can get stuck on race, but there’s not just race. There is age, gender, and socioeconomic status, which is really critical. Some of the things that I’ve read in the nonprofit press show a lack of diversity in our nonprofit boardrooms. That has an impact when you don’t have a diversity of leadership or a diversity of thinking styles. You’re leaving a lot on the table, and that’s been uppermost in my mind lately as far as some of our discussions go.
 Hugh: Well, that’s Dr. Thyonne Gordon you’re referring to. The more I talk to her, the more I appreciate the depth of her wisdom and character. The context behind both her and Mr. William Lewis, they are both doctors and very skilled people. I was the white guy on the call, but it wasn’t, as you have carefully placed, about race. We think it’s about race. That’s a factor. But how about boomers and millennials? How do we get along? We don’t, because we don’t understand each other. The gender, you talked about. The sexual preference, what is your lifestyle? Did you grow up in the ghetto? There is so many dynamics.
 When I participated years ago in working with a company in Germany that holds a competitive event called the World Choir Games, there were 400 choirs that show up from 100 countries. That is diversity. That is amazing diversity. People come together around a common thread, which is music, excellence in music. There is community that happens, not because you force it to happen, but because we all celebrate our diversity and celebrate the commonality that is music. I think we forget to think about the things we have in common. We think about what we have that is different rather than what we have in common.
 Russ, even within a white church that has mostly people from one generation and one economic sector, there are diverse opinions, but they are trapped in this container, not being able to get outside their point of view. Somebody from outside to ask questions: What about this? It opens up the conversation. We do get closed in without thinking about possibilities. We just think about what we have always done. What I have gained out of that particular interview, which was the brilliance of two of our guests, is there are some things we can think about. Here are some other values that we could bring. Is it about diversity, or is it about inclusion? Is it about bringing creative energy into your organization? That call was not only about race; it was about a whole plethora of other really powerful things. Am I remembering some of the same things you are?
 Russell: Yes, that’s true. That is what I took away. Here is where you have these things potentially show up in a bad way, if you don’t have that diversity. It’s understanding the populations that you serve. A lot of the populations look like everybody else, but some of them don’t. If you’re running a nonprofit and you’re trying to serve a population that you don’t have a solid connection with, it could reduce your effectiveness and your efficiency in doing that. There are all sorts of problems and other articles. I would love to bring those up. We discussed maybe doing another panel, and I have talked to a couple of people who would be good for that once we decide we want to do another one.
 Hugh: Let’s spin on that a minute. If you’re listening to this podcast and diversity, inclusion, and building creativity on your board and your culture generally, if that is a topic of interest for you, please go to the podcast and do some comments. It is on the SynerVision website, and there is a place for comments. We very much welcome comments. If you are really into growing the culture in a creative way, I don’t think you can do without some diversity. What do you think, Russ?
 Russell: You’ve gotta have it. That has been recognized by a lot of the new research that is out there. I read in the Chronicle of Philanthropy some of their findings. Those ads are out there. It’s really important. People are finding that this is critical. The Denver Foundation, right here where I work, they did an inclusion project and put quite a bit of money and research into it several years ago to actually tackle that problem. They have great material on their website, denverfoundation.org. They actually put some of the questions that they ask with limited information on some of the participants and some of the types of questions that they ask. They will be happy to talk with you about it if you want more information.
 Hugh: Thank you for bringing this up. This is a really important topic. I think there should be a series of group discussions on this topic because it is such a big topic. It is such an important topic. When we had that call and I did a debriefing for the two guests, they both said there is a lot more content and sub-themes. We introduced so many themes in that call. What I think you ought to do is challenge me, or challenge each other, to put a series of these conversations together. We might have to do it not at this time, but do it at this time and broadcast it to be able to accommodate the variety of schedules. I want Wornie Reed, the race professor at Virginia Tech, on the call, and Andy Morikawa, my original founding board member, who have really good wisdom on boards and diversity. There are some others that you and I have talked about. I think there are lots of subthemes for us to work through and develop. What do you think of us having a series of conversations about that topic?
 Russell: I’d love to do that. As a matter of fact, I have a preliminary agreement. I’ve got Andie Sue Phillips who will be appearing on the Nonprofit Culture Success show on November 1 at 4 pm EST. She and I are going to be talking about diversity. We are both veterans. She is very interested in coming on and doing the panel and talking. She has experienced this, and she has actually put together a very interesting program that a number of major businesses are looking at on diversity. They found her and approached her on the subject. I’m excited about that conversation that we’ll have coming up where she can talk about some of those tools.
 And we have a number of things. I think you could spend an hour on gender on one program. You could spend an hour on age, particularly the disconnect between boomers like ourselves and millennials. It’s really a communication thing. A good friend of mine, Brooke Chestnut, who I went through the Colorado Speakers Academy with, has put some programs together to help organizations that are looking to recruit millennials actually get that done. He put together an interesting concept that he called reverse mentoring. I think it’s about time for me to give young Mr. Chestnut a call.
 Hugh: He could be one of those panelists, couldn’t he?
 Russell: Very easily. That is a piece of his work. Another good friend in the area, Russ Manery, does a lot of work around making sure you hire the right people. He is masterful at that. He was on my show a few weeks back. You got the conversation around age. You got a conversation around gender. Her being a veteran and me being a veteran, that opens up all sorts of doors for this conversation, and I’m looking forward to that.
 Hugh: Me, too.
 Russell: There is a lot to unpack there. Then of course there is socioeconomic status. People who actually are in need of a lot of the services that nonprofits provide. A big mistake I’ve seen people make over the years is that they have got wonderful ideas and they want to help, but somewhere along the way, they neglected to talk to the people that they are actually putting the program together for. Lo and behold, they had everything to sign, they had it funded, they built it, and nobody came. It’s really important to talk to these folks and find out how they want to be helped because if they’re accessing different services, they don’t know where to buy them so to speak. They are experiencing these gaps, and there is something that falls outside the purview of the guidelines. They are actually struggling to fill all the needs. This happens with everything, especially with school. Students can go out and get scholarships and not be able to take advantage of them because of the hidden costs like the fees, the flights, and the textbooks. There are just things that show up that nobody accounts for. Thandie Caraway was on the Nonprofit Culture Success show last week. I have to put that replay up.
 Hugh: People will be listening to this way after the dates you gave, so let’s give a link so people can find that.
 Russell: I will.
 Hugh: What is that link?
 Russell: For the Nonprofit Culture Success show, it’s on Facebook. I have that every week. It’s a webinar similar to this broadcast. I deliver it the exact same way. If you look up NP Culture Success on Facebook, you will be connected there.
 Hugh: NP, meaning Nonprofit, Culture of Success. That is a really good program. You interviewed me a few weeks ago. I have been in a thread with some really fine folks.
 Russell, when you were talking about programs they hadn’t checked out, it reminds me of a Robert Frost poem: “We sit in a circle and suppose/the secret sits in the center and knows.” Does that resonate at all?
 Russell: That’s pretty good stuff. David weighed in and said there is a lot we could talk about where diversity is concerned. These types of discussions are what I really love to see. I would love to have more people weigh in. You want to know what people are interested in and struggling with because that is another way we can add value.
 Hugh: I’m going to ask David Dunworth what some of those topics are that come to his mind. He said there are lots of topics that would enhance the facets of the show.
 Russell, we’ve been looking at some of the past podcasts. Last week we had our friend Joe White who had an amazing presentation on goals. I teach goals. I said in that show that Joe did that module in my workshop. You have done your module twice. Everybody I’ve had present a module does a far better job than I do. Joe came in and presented goals, and it was resonant with what we have defined in SynerVision. He did a stunning job of that. He talked about his GPS system for setting goals, which I found to be very powerful. The Covey principle, sharpen the saw, comes to mind with people like that. We are always working on our tools, sharpening the saw so we can be better. You and I are no spring chickens. We have learned a lot of stuff; we have a lot of stuff. But we are not sitting on our laurels. We are growing our own skill and being able to share the wisdom and experience and skills we have learned over the years. Do you remember that conversation with Joe? Does anything come to mind from that for you?
 Russell: The thing I loved about his GPS system is that it is incredibly powerful. There is a lot of power in it. The power comes from the simplicity that he rolls it out there with. Almost everybody that drives can relate to a GPS. It makes me wonder how we ever got anywhere without them. They have become so widespread that we are used to them. The power is the focus that comes from using a simple system, is what comes through. I think that any good system is easy to access, easy to understand, and easy to use. That comes from our friend Brendan Bouchard; that is not one of my originals. But it makes perfect sense because a lot of people in the industry, and I have had that conversation with him and other people in the personal development industry: maybe two or three out of every hundred that actually pick up a system implement it. This is where I want to help people get beyond that. If there is something that people can use in simple steps, they are going to be more likely to apply it. It’s not going to be overwhelming. That was Joe’s GPS system. It is a textbook example of that principle.
 Hugh: He did a very good job of explaining it and laying it out. And he had a free gift. We don’t number the episodes of Nonprofit Exchange. If you find the one on Joe White setting powerful goals, that is a good one.
 We are going to expand some other topics coming up. David Dunworth had filled in some. One was outsourcing and its challenges because of preconceived notions. I find a lot of charities and churches and synagogues say we don’t have time to do all these things, yet they want to hire people. You could outsource some of these things if you had sufficient time to develop your plan and methodology so you could hand it off.
 One of the basic tenets of transformational leadership is being able to take things off your plate and empower some other people to do. You and I have talked about the burnout rate with nonprofit leaders, and it is unusually high. Part of it is we get stuck as leaders doing too much, and then we are not effective as we could be because we have too much on our plate. One of them is outsourcing. We think giving things to other people is a weakness in leadership when really it is just the opposite.
 Some other topics that he threw on the table were gender bias, the glass ceiling, young versus old, the color barrier, and the multi-culture world is here. Those are some of the topics. I think besides being the glass ceiling, and that is commonly used with women who are limited- I find there is a lot more opportunity for growth and taking charge for women in the nonprofit sector because they have a unique ability to engage people and bring in some fresh ideas. A lot of the old white guys like me get stale. There is a freshness in them, especially the woman leaders of any race or age. I think there is a great opportunity.
 The ceiling that John Maxwell talks about is the lid. The lid is our ability to lead the organization. That is the leadership issue, not a diversity issue. But it also could be a diversity issue if we had somebody that brought different skills. Are we going to put a lid on them? Many times, we have this scarcity thinking. It’s not just the lid that Maxwell talks about. His framing is that the organization cannot develop any further than the leaders’ ability to lead it, so there is the law of the lid. Sometimes, it’s not the leader’s fault; the organization and the culture puts a lid on that leader. “No, we don’t do it that way here.” You and I have seen circumstances where that happens. We have been in groups where we have participated mutually.
 Talk about that a minute. The framing of leadership and the ability of the board to let the leader lead, if they show some competence. What are some things you have seen?
 Russell: I’m working with the group now that has actually got good intent. It’s a new organization. They asked me to serve on their board. There have been some struggles with understanding what it is that they want. That speaks to the outsourcing that David was talking about. You have to understand what it is that you want in order to be a good customer. That takes some definition. A lot of social profit leaders are new to doing what they’re doing from a social profit realm, or they are taking on a big challenge. There could actually be some fear around whether some things are going to work. They are trying new things. They are trying things outside of their comfort zone. Those are things that can hold folks back. It’s really expanding the thinking outside of the old traditional limited realms. Good leaders build on the leaders around them. There is no better way to look good than to have a great team of leaders around you because they are actually doing the stuff on the ground. If you are the leader providing direction, these folks actually make you look good.
 It’s really when you bring people onto a board or you are a board and you bring somebody to lead your organization, you are putting them in a position of trust. There is a lot that you are expecting them to do. If you don’t give them the tools or the autonomy to actually get things done, to leverage that creativity, you are going to have a little bit of trouble.
 One of the things my good friend Doug Crude talks about is the brilliance of the team. You have a lot of brilliance under your roof, a lot of people that are dedicated and motivated. But if you suppress that talent and you don’t let them shine the way they want to shine, they will walk away. I don’t think that it’s fully a pay issue; it’s really an issue of am I making a difference here? This is really important for millennials. They want to do work that matters. They don’t want to be micro-managed. Nobody wants to be micro-managed. It’s having that trust for your team and not being afraid to make mistakes that will propel you forward. Those are several things that transformational leaders do.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I am looking over some of the recent podcasts. We do develop a transcript from the interviews and put it in the Nonprofit Exchange podcast. Going back a while, you and I did a podcast on the five top things that block a leader’s success. That one had a lot of plays; it was in April.
 There was also an interview we did with Dr. David Gruder, our friend who is an organizational developmental psychologist. It was about the people who are controlling the board with their anger. There were some things he gave us that were really helpful. We have seen lots of boards where they say they can’t do something because it will upset so-and-so. So we tiptoe around the topic, and they avoid dealing with it head-on. What I heard with that and some other of my studies is when you have conflict, you move toward it and remain calm and address the facts very directly. We tend to avoid in the effort to be nice. When we are trying to be nice to one person, like on a board, then we are devaluing every other person because we have let that person take us hostage. That was the interview with Dr. Gruder, which was before our discussion on those five things. That one spoke to me especially in a special way because I see that kind of thing happening an awful lot. That was back in February, believe it or not.
 Russell: I think I’ve got that- We did that in June, I believe. I believe the February discussion was the discussion on the relationship that we have with money.
 Hugh: The shadow- you’re right.
 Russell: That particular program, he talked about the strong personalities on the board. If one person dominates a lot of the conversations, he talked about how they go about really getting their way and actually short-circuiting any conversation that people have. That is just not a good thing. As a matter of fact, what I’m going to do is drop that into the chat box. That’s a good one to go back and listen to if you have a strong personality that you are concerned about.
 Dr. Gordon did a podcast that addressed boards, too. Hers was also in June or somewhere close by. That one was April 11. That was about empowering your board and structuring a good board. I was actually absent that week that you and Dr. Gordon talked about boards. What were some of the things that she brought up?
 Hugh: There were a number of things. But it was empowering the board by asking them to do things. Going back to David Gruder’s piece, we let other people’s emotions control us. We have our own scripts that sometimes are not true. There was some synergy in the two presentations with Dr. Gruder and Dr. Gordon. She encouraged us to step up and ask board members to contribute money, time, and talent, all three. We tend to overcompensate by saying, “I’ll do it for them; they’re busy,” when that’s not what they want. What they want is meaningful contribution. They are on the board because they want to give their skillset. That doesn’t mean they are going to work every day for you, but it does mean they want to do something that is meaningful and see an impact from the organization. Her presentation is very valuable, and it’s one of the most listened-to episodes on the podcast over the last three years. Dr. Thyonne Gordon, you said it was in April. That is a very popular podcast. That is a very important podcast. It’s on a topic that I think a lot of boards struggle with.
 David Gruder talked about the shadow in February, but he talked about the anger specifically, how people control boards with their anger. That is something that we tend to cave into but is not very helpful.
 We are talking about David Dunworth who is watching us on Facebook at the moment. He talked about the brand and connecting it to the board. The board has impact on the brand. The board represents our brand. Your employees represent the brand. You represent the brand. We tend to think, Oh I’m a nonprofit; I don’t have a brand. It’s important that you have a brand identity, a brand promise. It’s important that you know what your brand is, and everybody supports that brand. David has lots of skills. His particular channel that day was talking about your brand and what I remember coming out of that is how people behave around that brand. Do you have some thoughts around David and what he shared?
 Russell: It addressed leadership. His key message was that leaders are actually the brand, and they present the brand they build that once they build that, they safeguard it. They provide the direction and make sure. The brand is really what you’re all about. A lot of times, the word “brand” will bring up thoughts around some sort of packaging or snazzy jingle. We think about that sort of thing. We think about it in terms of marketing, but a brand is really a statement about who you are and everything that you do flows out of that. David was talking eloquently about the leader’s responsibility to make sure you have all the integrity and the effectiveness around that brand. You build on that, and it guides what you do. Leaders actually reflect that brand that your nonprofit is out there. That is a very good podcast. I did put that in the chat, too.
 Those will be in the notes for folks that missed those particular ones. I drop those in the notes because they are great to go back to. I tend to make a list and go out and grab all of these links as they go up so that I could look at them because there is so much that we learn from those that you can’t absorb it all. I have to go back and listen to them again and again. That is the beauty of the Internet. We archive these videos, and they are there for our review. The podcasts are even better because you can listen to those on the fly. I put them on my iPod, and I can plug my iPod in the car and get it to go. You don’t even have to fight with CDs anymore. There is technology again, and it is beautiful when it works, which is most of the time.
 Hugh: It is. “The Seven Essential Skills for Nonprofit Leadership Success,” that is one that you and I did. We went around that number seven because you had found seven to be a powerful number. The podcast that Todd Greer did years ago was on community. That is by far the most listened-to episode. It was relaunched on August 11 as an archive replay.
 The other one is “Drucker Challenge: Managing Oneself in the Digital Age.” That was Frances Hesselbein and her leadership institute. She is an amazing person who is much older than you and I but shows up to work because she has a passion for creating value in people’s lives. She is very clear on who she is and what she offers.
 The other one I wanted to lift up—We are coming close to our time. I like not to go over too much—is the due diligence one with Thomas Moviel. You interviewed Thomas. That was one of the times you got to do an interview and didn’t have the burden of Hugh Ballou getting in your way. Before you launch an idea, can you do some due diligence? Does the world need your nonprofit? I thought that was relevant. I met him at a conference and invited him in because- You may have more relevant statistics than this, but my memory is that half of the nonprofits that are formed every year close. They are not able to fully achieve their mission at any level. That might partly be because the world didn’t need your idea. You go to all the trouble of launching something before you did a check-up to see if it’s really needed. Do you remember that interview you did with Thomas?
 Russell: Yes, it was quite a while ago. One of the things that David pointed out is that the brand philosophy and its tenets have to be present throughout the whole organization, not just with the leadership. Thomas and I talked about some of that identity, but what we were really talking about was making sure that you understand what it is that you do and what you do differently. The concept behind “Does the world need your nonprofit?” is understanding clearly what the problems that you solve are and focusing on things that you really do well. That was a big key takeaway that a lot of folks just don’t do that as well as they could. So we talked a little bit about some tools for doing that, but most of the emphasis was on the importance of doing that, whether it’s with a program or specific people that you go to attract to your organization. It’s really having that focus on the people that you’re serving.
 Hugh: Amen. That was a really good interview. I saw him on Saturday and thanked him for that. I just had a hunch that would be something valuable. It’s been one of the most listened-to episodes.
 As we do a wrap here, Russell, I thought it would be good for us to pause in our pretty active schedule of interviewing thought leaders and for you and I to reflect on some of the lessons and help people think about what they need next. As I am looking over the list since you and I have been doing this, there are a number of very powerful interviews that have of course the transcription there, but they have things that could be implemented.
 The David Corbin interview about brand slaughter, which is the title of his book. The Penny Zenker interview about how to gain control over your life. It’s about that time robber. George Fraser talked about building a legacy. He has the largest African-American network in the world and is very humble about it. Don Green talked about the Napoleon Hill Foundation. He is going to contribute for the magazine about boards. That board uses business principles to support that nonprofit. Our friend Shannon Gronich did getting unlimited publicity. There is a whole methodology under that, which she is so brilliant about.
 Russell, as we draw to a close, I customarily ask our guests to think about what they want to leave people with. Maybe you and I could take a turn doing that. What is your thought that from all the wisdom that we’ve ben able to partake in, what would you say to people listening to this podcast that you would wish they could do with some of this wisdom?
 Russell: I would say refer back to it regularly. Never stop looking for ways to do what you do better. Always work from your strengths as much as possible. Find partners and other people to collaborate with so that you can cover those areas that you don’t necessarily do well because you are going to be much more effective just living it, working in your genius, and trusting that to make an impact than trying to create a new genius for yourself. Do what you do. Do your thing. That is really the most important thing: work from those strengths, and always be learning. Always keep learning. Always continue to look for opportunities to collaborate. Learning is a never-ending process. Don’ be afraid to try new things. If you are feeling stuck, stop and think about some of the people that you already have in your payroll or who are volunteering or who are writing your checks. It won’t hurt to ask your donors for ideas. Ask them what they’d like to see. It’s about getting people more and more engaged with what you’re doing and letting them know that what they’re contributing, whether it’s time, treasure, talent, or all three, how important that is. Let them know what’s possible through that regularly.
 Hugh: Russ, that is really great. You took the words out of my mouth. I find people say, “I don’t have time to listen to podcasts.” Do you ever drive in your car anywhere? I never have anything but public radio and my podcasts, and I learn every time I listen to my podcast. What I appreciate about Russell David Dennis is that you are always working on your skill. You have a book you’re working on. What you pointed out is that just because you listened to it or read it doesn’t mean you know it all. What I have learned from our friend Ken Courtright is he goes back and reads great books again with a different colored highlighter. He finds that when he goes back and highlights passages that stand out to him, they are different than the ones he highlighted the first time. Either you didn’t see it or understand it, or you weren’t ready to learn it yet. I applaud what you said. That is a very good reminder for me. Just because you read it, just because you listened to it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t listen to it again because you are ready to learn the next thing.
 Russell, I’m grateful for you. Thank you for being on this series of podcasts. I would like to encourage people to go back and listen to this library of wonderful resources that we have as a gift for you. Please share your comments and the podcast on social media or on your email because we want people to listen to them. They are free. This is our gift to you.
 Russell, thank you for today. I am grateful to you, sir.
 Russell: It’s very good. If folks don’t already, keep going back to the SynerVision page, the Nonprofit Culture Success page on Facebook, and the Nonprofit Exchange Channel. Make sure you subscribe to that on YouTube. Check back regularly. Go in the comment areas and let us know what you think and what you want to hear about because we are here to serve you and help you make more impact in your communities.
 Hugh: Good words, Russell. Thank you so much.
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        <![CDATA[<p>Highlighting the best ideas from the best sessions is our intention. Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis point to interviews for more listening and more personal growth.</p> <p><strong>Here's the Transcript</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>NPE Hugh &amp; Russell</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, it’s an episode of the Nonprofit Exchange that is the Hugh and Russell show. Russell David Dennis and Hugh McPherson Ballou, we are going to chat today about some of the great things that we’ve heard in the past podcasts. We create a lot of content, and it’s time to reflect on that. Russell, how are you doing today?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> It is a beautiful day here in Denver, Colorado. It did snow a little bit yesterday. Now it’s gone back to Denver-type weather, at least for the front range here. There is a beautiful cap on the mountains that you can see miles and miles coming in. Life is good.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Your life is always good. You make it that way. When I lived in Colorado, they had a saying: If you don’t like the weather, just wait five minutes.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It does change frequently. We are expecting some pretty mild weather for this time of year. But the skiers are happy. We got a natural cap. The snow machines are going. Let the skiing begin. It will continue through May.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Through May. Wow. So we are live on Facebook. We record our podcasts as a live video feed, so anybody who is listening to the Nonprofit Exchange podcast, feel free to join us on Facebook live on Tuesdays at 2:00 Eastern Time. You go to thenonprofitexchange.org, and it will lead you there. We post to the past sessions and create new sessions every Tuesday.</p> <p>Russell, I find that when we are doing it live that we have unexpected participants that join us on Facebook. I also find that there is an energy with creating that live event. What is your experience with this?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I have had people come in and share their experience because it enhances the program. It always helps to have people ask questions that are burning in their minds. One of the things to consider because as nonprofit leaders, you’re running an enterprise. It’s a business like a lot of others. The big difference is the tax status. There are problems with people and business and just operating that can be solved and leadership issues. These are things that people want to talk about. I like to bring people things that they want to hear about. I love when people ask questions because it gives us points for discussion. We find out what sort of things are important to you out there, and that is what matters to us.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I was with both Burt Oliva and David Dunworth two weeks ago tomorrow down in Florida, and we managed to dodge the weather and do some meaningful things in between the storms. As I spend time with both of those gentlemen who are both watching right now, I really appreciate the level of skill they have and the level of expertise. David Dunworth has been on this podcast. I’ve talked to Burt, and he and his team are going to be part of this interview process next month. Their calendar is pretty full. I look forward to having them. The fact that you are connected to them is also great.</p> <p>We have been doing this Nonprofit Exchange. Our magazine editor, Todd Greer, Dr. Greer is an organizational psychologist. He has got a degree in organizational leadership… *audio interruption, clearly a network issue*</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Can you hear me, Hugh? Can you hear me okay?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Did I lose you and you’re back?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I lost you for a brief-</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Did you go away? Did you hear what I just said?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Very little of that. We had a little bit of a freeze there momentarily.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> High tech is really great when it works. When high tech works, it’s great. When it doesn’t work, it really stinks. What I was talking about the history of this podcast, and it starts as a video and then goes into the audio on Nonprofit Exchange podcast, which you can find on iTunes and Stitcher and most every platform. The Nonprofit Exchange. Russ, you have showed up faithfully as unofficial co-host, but you are trying to get out of it now. You are part of this process. How long have we been doing this together? Has it been a year?</p> <p>*more technical difficulties*</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> We started fairly early in the year on a consistent basis. I popped in and out on some broadcasts in late 2016, but I’ve been consistent since probably about February. We’ve been co-piloting during the week. One of the things that has been pointed out because we’ve had people that have come in and talked about the use of technology for nonprofits and using it well. Technology is something that can enhance what we’re doing, but it’s not primarily what we’re doing. It’s important to use it well as a nonprofit leader not to be afraid of it. Technology can do a lot of things for you particularly when it comes to getting your message out.</p> <p>*more technical difficulties*</p> <p>I have been talking about technology and how we can leverage it to make it work. It’s not a magic bullet, but it’s something that can afford nonprofits the opportunity to get their organizations out in front of other people, whether it’s through Facebook or using Google. Google has put millions and millions of dollars into the nonprofit arena by offering grants to nonprofits to actually get their message out there.</p> <p>*more technical difficulties*</p> <p>You might be having a bandwidth thing going on there. Hang in there. I don’t know if you have some apps open that you might be able to close.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I was going to blame it on you. I’m hoping that audio continued and I didn’t hear anything, but it could have been my own frailty here. I did change devices so I am on a different router now.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It seems to have cleared the problem up. I was talking about technology because that is so important for everything. One of the things that I was talking about getting messages out there, but it can be used to reach your audience. You can actually do a little bit more in terms of determining who the people are that are listening to you. You can get your message out in more cost-effective ways than you were ever able to do before. Like anything else, the thing that has been the overarching message that our guests have put out as far as using technology and social media and connecting with people is it’s all about relationships and building strong relationships with people you serve and those that you serve with. Technology is not a substitute for that, but it’s a way to factually extend that reach in a cost-effective manner.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. Russ, let’s talk about some impressions from- Tell me again when you and I started doing this together.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think we started moving consistently in February because I pop in and out in 2016. But I’ve started showing up consistently. We have been here. I have been on just about every broadcast. I have had the honor and privilege of standing in a few times for you when you had other things that you had to get done. It’s been beautiful. It’s been a great thing for me. I have done other broadcasting, too. I’d like this talk show hosting. I think it suits me.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You do it very well, and you’ve had me as a guest on your show. You know we have learned, in our association with our group called CEO Space, the power of cooperation, and we have taken it to the collaborative level. There is plenty of room for everybody to play because it’s a big playing field, and we bring it to a new paradigm.</p> <p>Let’s look over some of the past podcasts. We have had the pleasure of interviewing some really amazing people. I don’t know about you, but I learn from every single one of them. As a matter of fact, every time we talk, I learn something from you. You have some incredible sound bites. You are very well-read. You continue working on self. I remember Jim Rohn would commonly say in his speeches, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.” That is my sense of Russell Dennis. You are always improving your own self. You have done many worthy things in your career. What you are doing is bringing all that value to people who need it. Thank you for being here, and thank you for sharing your wisdom.</p> <p>Let’s collaborate on thinking about the wisdom we’ve gathered from some of these people we have interviewed recently. What are some of the messages that jump out to you from some of those great interviews we have had?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Here’s the panel discussion that we had that really sticks in my mind. Several weeks ago, we were talking about diversity. This is a discussion that I’ve been having with people all over the place. In fact, I had a discussion with one of my classmates from the Sponsorship Boot Camp around diversity. This lady is a naval officer. She was a pilot, so she experienced some interesting reactions from her fellow naval pilots. It’s pretty much a boys’ club. When we get into diversity, we can get stuck on race, but there’s not just race. There is age, gender, and socioeconomic status, which is really critical. Some of the things that I’ve read in the nonprofit press show a lack of diversity in our nonprofit boardrooms. That has an impact when you don’t have a diversity of leadership or a diversity of thinking styles. You’re leaving a lot on the table, and that’s been uppermost in my mind lately as far as some of our discussions go.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Well, that’s Dr. Thyonne Gordon you’re referring to. The more I talk to her, the more I appreciate the depth of her wisdom and character. The context behind both her and Mr. William Lewis, they are both doctors and very skilled people. I was the white guy on the call, but it wasn’t, as you have carefully placed, about race. We think it’s about race. That’s a factor. But how about boomers and millennials? How do we get along? We don’t, because we don’t understand each other. The gender, you talked about. The sexual preference, what is your lifestyle? Did you grow up in the ghetto? There is so many dynamics.</p> <p>When I participated years ago in working with a company in Germany that holds a competitive event called the World Choir Games, there were 400 choirs that show up from 100 countries. That is diversity. That is amazing diversity. People come together around a common thread, which is music, excellence in music. There is community that happens, not because you force it to happen, but because we all celebrate our diversity and celebrate the commonality that is music. I think we forget to think about the things we have in common. We think about what we have that is different rather than what we have in common.</p> <p>Russ, even within a white church that has mostly people from one generation and one economic sector, there are diverse opinions, but they are trapped in this container, not being able to get outside their point of view. Somebody from outside to ask questions: What about this? It opens up the conversation. We do get closed in without thinking about possibilities. We just think about what we have always done. What I have gained out of that particular interview, which was the brilliance of two of our guests, is there are some things we can think about. Here are some other values that we could bring. Is it about diversity, or is it about inclusion? Is it about bringing creative energy into your organization? That call was not only about race; it was about a whole plethora of other really powerful things. Am I remembering some of the same things you are?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yes, that’s true. That is what I took away. Here is where you have these things potentially show up in a bad way, if you don’t have that diversity. It’s understanding the populations that you serve. A lot of the populations look like everybody else, but some of them don’t. If you’re running a nonprofit and you’re trying to serve a population that you don’t have a solid connection with, it could reduce your effectiveness and your efficiency in doing that. There are all sorts of problems and other articles. I would love to bring those up. We discussed maybe doing another panel, and I have talked to a couple of people who would be good for that once we decide we want to do another one.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Let’s spin on that a minute. If you’re listening to this podcast and diversity, inclusion, and building creativity on your board and your culture generally, if that is a topic of interest for you, please go to the podcast and do some comments. It is on the SynerVision website, and there is a place for comments. We very much welcome comments. If you are really into growing the culture in a creative way, I don’t think you can do without some diversity. What do you think, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You’ve gotta have it. That has been recognized by a lot of the new research that is out there. I read in the Chronicle of Philanthropy some of their findings. Those ads are out there. It’s really important. People are finding that this is critical. The Denver Foundation, right here where I work, they did an inclusion project and put quite a bit of money and research into it several years ago to actually tackle that problem. They have great material on their website, denverfoundation.org. They actually put some of the questions that they ask with limited information on some of the participants and some of the types of questions that they ask. They will be happy to talk with you about it if you want more information.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you for bringing this up. This is a really important topic. I think there should be a series of group discussions on this topic because it is such a big topic. It is such an important topic. When we had that call and I did a debriefing for the two guests, they both said there is a lot more content and sub-themes. We introduced so many themes in that call. What I think you ought to do is challenge me, or challenge each other, to put a series of these conversations together. We might have to do it not at this time, but do it at this time and broadcast it to be able to accommodate the variety of schedules. I want Wornie Reed, the race professor at Virginia Tech, on the call, and Andy Morikawa, my original founding board member, who have really good wisdom on boards and diversity. There are some others that you and I have talked about. I think there are lots of subthemes for us to work through and develop. What do you think of us having a series of conversations about that topic?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I’d love to do that. As a matter of fact, I have a preliminary agreement. I’ve got Andie Sue Phillips who will be appearing on the Nonprofit Culture Success show on November 1 at 4 pm EST. She and I are going to be talking about diversity. We are both veterans. She is very interested in coming on and doing the panel and talking. She has experienced this, and she has actually put together a very interesting program that a number of major businesses are looking at on diversity. They found her and approached her on the subject. I’m excited about that conversation that we’ll have coming up where she can talk about some of those tools.</p> <p>And we have a number of things. I think you could spend an hour on gender on one program. You could spend an hour on age, particularly the disconnect between boomers like ourselves and millennials. It’s really a communication thing. A good friend of mine, Brooke Chestnut, who I went through the Colorado Speakers Academy with, has put some programs together to help organizations that are looking to recruit millennials actually get that done. He put together an interesting concept that he called reverse mentoring. I think it’s about time for me to give young Mr. Chestnut a call.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> He could be one of those panelists, couldn’t he?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Very easily. That is a piece of his work. Another good friend in the area, Russ Manery, does a lot of work around making sure you hire the right people. He is masterful at that. He was on my show a few weeks back. You got the conversation around age. You got a conversation around gender. Her being a veteran and me being a veteran, that opens up all sorts of doors for this conversation, and I’m looking forward to that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Me, too.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There is a lot to unpack there. Then of course there is socioeconomic status. People who actually are in need of a lot of the services that nonprofits provide. A big mistake I’ve seen people make over the years is that they have got wonderful ideas and they want to help, but somewhere along the way, they neglected to talk to the people that they are actually putting the program together for. Lo and behold, they had everything to sign, they had it funded, they built it, and nobody came. It’s really important to talk to these folks and find out how they want to be helped because if they’re accessing different services, they don’t know where to buy them so to speak. They are experiencing these gaps, and there is something that falls outside the purview of the guidelines. They are actually struggling to fill all the needs. This happens with everything, especially with school. Students can go out and get scholarships and not be able to take advantage of them because of the hidden costs like the fees, the flights, and the textbooks. There are just things that show up that nobody accounts for. Thandie Caraway was on the Nonprofit Culture Success show last week. I have to put that replay up.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> People will be listening to this way after the dates you gave, so let’s give a link so people can find that.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I will.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What is that link?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> For the Nonprofit Culture Success show, it’s on Facebook. I have that every week. It’s a webinar similar to this broadcast. I deliver it the exact same way. If you look up NP Culture Success on Facebook, you will be connected there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> NP, meaning Nonprofit, Culture of Success. That is a really good program. You interviewed me a few weeks ago. I have been in a thread with some really fine folks.</p> <p>Russell, when you were talking about programs they hadn’t checked out, it reminds me of a Robert Frost poem: “We sit in a circle and suppose/the secret sits in the center and knows.” Does that resonate at all?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s pretty good stuff. David weighed in and said there is a lot we could talk about where diversity is concerned. These types of discussions are what I really love to see. I would love to have more people weigh in. You want to know what people are interested in and struggling with because that is another way we can add value.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m going to ask David Dunworth what some of those topics are that come to his mind. He said there are lots of topics that would enhance the facets of the show.</p> <p>Russell, we’ve been looking at some of the past podcasts. Last week we had our friend Joe White who had an amazing presentation on goals. I teach goals. I said in that show that Joe did that module in my workshop. You have done your module twice. Everybody I’ve had present a module does a far better job than I do. Joe came in and presented goals, and it was resonant with what we have defined in SynerVision. He did a stunning job of that. He talked about his GPS system for setting goals, which I found to be very powerful. The Covey principle, sharpen the saw, comes to mind with people like that. We are always working on our tools, sharpening the saw so we can be better. You and I are no spring chickens. We have learned a lot of stuff; we have a lot of stuff. But we are not sitting on our laurels. We are growing our own skill and being able to share the wisdom and experience and skills we have learned over the years. Do you remember that conversation with Joe? Does anything come to mind from that for you?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The thing I loved about his GPS system is that it is incredibly powerful. There is a lot of power in it. The power comes from the simplicity that he rolls it out there with. Almost everybody that drives can relate to a GPS. It makes me wonder how we ever got anywhere without them. They have become so widespread that we are used to them. The power is the focus that comes from using a simple system, is what comes through. I think that any good system is easy to access, easy to understand, and easy to use. That comes from our friend Brendan Bouchard; that is not one of my originals. But it makes perfect sense because a lot of people in the industry, and I have had that conversation with him and other people in the personal development industry: maybe two or three out of every hundred that actually pick up a system implement it. This is where I want to help people get beyond that. If there is something that people can use in simple steps, they are going to be more likely to apply it. It’s not going to be overwhelming. That was Joe’s GPS system. It is a textbook example of that principle.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> He did a very good job of explaining it and laying it out. And he had a free gift. We don’t number the episodes of Nonprofit Exchange. If you find the one on Joe White setting powerful goals, that is a good one.</p> <p>We are going to expand some other topics coming up. David Dunworth had filled in some. One was outsourcing and its challenges because of preconceived notions. I find a lot of charities and churches and synagogues say we don’t have time to do all these things, yet they want to hire people. You could outsource some of these things if you had sufficient time to develop your plan and methodology so you could hand it off.</p> <p>One of the basic tenets of transformational leadership is being able to take things off your plate and empower some other people to do. You and I have talked about the burnout rate with nonprofit leaders, and it is unusually high. Part of it is we get stuck as leaders doing too much, and then we are not effective as we could be because we have too much on our plate. One of them is outsourcing. We think giving things to other people is a weakness in leadership when really it is just the opposite.</p> <p>Some other topics that he threw on the table were gender bias, the glass ceiling, young versus old, the color barrier, and the multi-culture world is here. Those are some of the topics. I think besides being the glass ceiling, and that is commonly used with women who are limited- I find there is a lot more opportunity for growth and taking charge for women in the nonprofit sector because they have a unique ability to engage people and bring in some fresh ideas. A lot of the old white guys like me get stale. There is a freshness in them, especially the woman leaders of any race or age. I think there is a great opportunity.</p> <p>The ceiling that John Maxwell talks about is the lid. The lid is our ability to lead the organization. That is the leadership issue, not a diversity issue. But it also could be a diversity issue if we had somebody that brought different skills. Are we going to put a lid on them? Many times, we have this scarcity thinking. It’s not just the lid that Maxwell talks about. His framing is that the organization cannot develop any further than the leaders’ ability to lead it, so there is the law of the lid. Sometimes, it’s not the leader’s fault; the organization and the culture puts a lid on that leader. “No, we don’t do it that way here.” You and I have seen circumstances where that happens. We have been in groups where we have participated mutually.</p> <p>Talk about that a minute. The framing of leadership and the ability of the board to let the leader lead, if they show some competence. What are some things you have seen?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I’m working with the group now that has actually got good intent. It’s a new organization. They asked me to serve on their board. There have been some struggles with understanding what it is that they want. That speaks to the outsourcing that David was talking about. You have to understand what it is that you want in order to be a good customer. That takes some definition. A lot of social profit leaders are new to doing what they’re doing from a social profit realm, or they are taking on a big challenge. There could actually be some fear around whether some things are going to work. They are trying new things. They are trying things outside of their comfort zone. Those are things that can hold folks back. It’s really expanding the thinking outside of the old traditional limited realms. Good leaders build on the leaders around them. There is no better way to look good than to have a great team of leaders around you because they are actually doing the stuff on the ground. If you are the leader providing direction, these folks actually make you look good.</p> <p>It’s really when you bring people onto a board or you are a board and you bring somebody to lead your organization, you are putting them in a position of trust. There is a lot that you are expecting them to do. If you don’t give them the tools or the autonomy to actually get things done, to leverage that creativity, you are going to have a little bit of trouble.</p> <p>One of the things my good friend Doug Crude talks about is the brilliance of the team. You have a lot of brilliance under your roof, a lot of people that are dedicated and motivated. But if you suppress that talent and you don’t let them shine the way they want to shine, they will walk away. I don’t think that it’s fully a pay issue; it’s really an issue of am I making a difference here? This is really important for millennials. They want to do work that matters. They don’t want to be micro-managed. Nobody wants to be micro-managed. It’s having that trust for your team and not being afraid to make mistakes that will propel you forward. Those are several things that transformational leaders do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. I am looking over some of the recent podcasts. We do develop a transcript from the interviews and put it in the Nonprofit Exchange podcast. Going back a while, you and I did a podcast on the five top things that block a leader’s success. That one had a lot of plays; it was in April.</p> <p>There was also an interview we did with Dr. David Gruder, our friend who is an organizational developmental psychologist. It was about the people who are controlling the board with their anger. There were some things he gave us that were really helpful. We have seen lots of boards where they say they can’t do something because it will upset so-and-so. So we tiptoe around the topic, and they avoid dealing with it head-on. What I heard with that and some other of my studies is when you have conflict, you move toward it and remain calm and address the facts very directly. We tend to avoid in the effort to be nice. When we are trying to be nice to one person, like on a board, then we are devaluing every other person because we have let that person take us hostage. That was the interview with Dr. Gruder, which was before our discussion on those five things. That one spoke to me especially in a special way because I see that kind of thing happening an awful lot. That was back in February, believe it or not.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think I’ve got that- We did that in June, I believe. I believe the February discussion was the discussion on the relationship that we have with money.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The shadow- you’re right.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That particular program, he talked about the strong personalities on the board. If one person dominates a lot of the conversations, he talked about how they go about really getting their way and actually short-circuiting any conversation that people have. That is just not a good thing. As a matter of fact, what I’m going to do is drop that into the chat box. That’s a good one to go back and listen to if you have a strong personality that you are concerned about.</p> <p>Dr. Gordon did a podcast that addressed boards, too. Hers was also in June or somewhere close by. That one was April 11. That was about empowering your board and structuring a good board. I was actually absent that week that you and Dr. Gordon talked about boards. What were some of the things that she brought up?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There were a number of things. But it was empowering the board by asking them to do things. Going back to David Gruder’s piece, we let other people’s emotions control us. We have our own scripts that sometimes are not true. There was some synergy in the two presentations with Dr. Gruder and Dr. Gordon. She encouraged us to step up and ask board members to contribute money, time, and talent, all three. We tend to overcompensate by saying, “I’ll do it for them; they’re busy,” when that’s not what they want. What they want is meaningful contribution. They are on the board because they want to give their skillset. That doesn’t mean they are going to work every day for you, but it does mean they want to do something that is meaningful and see an impact from the organization. Her presentation is very valuable, and it’s one of the most listened-to episodes on the podcast over the last three years. Dr. Thyonne Gordon, you said it was in April. That is a very popular podcast. That is a very important podcast. It’s on a topic that I think a lot of boards struggle with.</p> <p>David Gruder talked about the shadow in February, but he talked about the anger specifically, how people control boards with their anger. That is something that we tend to cave into but is not very helpful.</p> <p>We are talking about David Dunworth who is watching us on Facebook at the moment. He talked about the brand and connecting it to the board. The board has impact on the brand. The board represents our brand. Your employees represent the brand. You represent the brand. We tend to think, Oh I’m a nonprofit; I don’t have a brand. It’s important that you have a brand identity, a brand promise. It’s important that you know what your brand is, and everybody supports that brand. David has lots of skills. His particular channel that day was talking about your brand and what I remember coming out of that is how people behave around that brand. Do you have some thoughts around David and what he shared?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It addressed leadership. His key message was that leaders are actually the brand, and they present the brand they build that once they build that, they safeguard it. They provide the direction and make sure. The brand is really what you’re all about. A lot of times, the word “brand” will bring up thoughts around some sort of packaging or snazzy jingle. We think about that sort of thing. We think about it in terms of marketing, but a brand is really a statement about who you are and everything that you do flows out of that. David was talking eloquently about the leader’s responsibility to make sure you have all the integrity and the effectiveness around that brand. You build on that, and it guides what you do. Leaders actually reflect that brand that your nonprofit is out there. That is a very good podcast. I did put that in the chat, too.</p> <p>Those will be in the notes for folks that missed those particular ones. I drop those in the notes because they are great to go back to. I tend to make a list and go out and grab all of these links as they go up so that I could look at them because there is so much that we learn from those that you can’t absorb it all. I have to go back and listen to them again and again. That is the beauty of the Internet. We archive these videos, and they are there for our review. The podcasts are even better because you can listen to those on the fly. I put them on my iPod, and I can plug my iPod in the car and get it to go. You don’t even have to fight with CDs anymore. There is technology again, and it is beautiful when it works, which is most of the time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It is. “The Seven Essential Skills for Nonprofit Leadership Success,” that is one that you and I did. We went around that number seven because you had found seven to be a powerful number. The podcast that Todd Greer did years ago was on community. That is by far the most listened-to episode. It was relaunched on August 11 as an archive replay.</p> <p>The other one is “Drucker Challenge: Managing Oneself in the Digital Age.” That was Frances Hesselbein and her leadership institute. She is an amazing person who is much older than you and I but shows up to work because she has a passion for creating value in people’s lives. She is very clear on who she is and what she offers.</p> <p>The other one I wanted to lift up—We are coming close to our time. I like not to go over too much—is the due diligence one with Thomas Moviel. You interviewed Thomas. That was one of the times you got to do an interview and didn’t have the burden of Hugh Ballou getting in your way. Before you launch an idea, can you do some due diligence? Does the world need your nonprofit? I thought that was relevant. I met him at a conference and invited him in because- You may have more relevant statistics than this, but my memory is that half of the nonprofits that are formed every year close. They are not able to fully achieve their mission at any level. That might partly be because the world didn’t need your idea. You go to all the trouble of launching something before you did a check-up to see if it’s really needed. Do you remember that interview you did with Thomas?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yes, it was quite a while ago. One of the things that David pointed out is that the brand philosophy and its tenets have to be present throughout the whole organization, not just with the leadership. Thomas and I talked about some of that identity, but what we were really talking about was making sure that you understand what it is that you do and what you do differently. The concept behind “Does the world need your nonprofit?” is understanding clearly what the problems that you solve are and focusing on things that you really do well. That was a big key takeaway that a lot of folks just don’t do that as well as they could. So we talked a little bit about some tools for doing that, but most of the emphasis was on the importance of doing that, whether it’s with a program or specific people that you go to attract to your organization. It’s really having that focus on the people that you’re serving.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Amen. That was a really good interview. I saw him on Saturday and thanked him for that. I just had a hunch that would be something valuable. It’s been one of the most listened-to episodes.</p> <p>As we do a wrap here, Russell, I thought it would be good for us to pause in our pretty active schedule of interviewing thought leaders and for you and I to reflect on some of the lessons and help people think about what they need next. As I am looking over the list since you and I have been doing this, there are a number of very powerful interviews that have of course the transcription there, but they have things that could be implemented.</p> <p>The David Corbin interview about brand slaughter, which is the title of his book. The Penny Zenker interview about how to gain control over your life. It’s about that time robber. George Fraser talked about building a legacy. He has the largest African-American network in the world and is very humble about it. Don Green talked about the Napoleon Hill Foundation. He is going to contribute for the magazine about boards. That board uses business principles to support that nonprofit. Our friend Shannon Gronich did getting unlimited publicity. There is a whole methodology under that, which she is so brilliant about.</p> <p>Russell, as we draw to a close, I customarily ask our guests to think about what they want to leave people with. Maybe you and I could take a turn doing that. What is your thought that from all the wisdom that we’ve ben able to partake in, what would you say to people listening to this podcast that you would wish they could do with some of this wisdom?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I would say refer back to it regularly. Never stop looking for ways to do what you do better. Always work from your strengths as much as possible. Find partners and other people to collaborate with so that you can cover those areas that you don’t necessarily do well because you are going to be much more effective just living it, working in your genius, and trusting that to make an impact than trying to create a new genius for yourself. Do what you do. Do your thing. That is really the most important thing: work from those strengths, and always be learning. Always keep learning. Always continue to look for opportunities to collaborate. Learning is a never-ending process. Don’ be afraid to try new things. If you are feeling stuck, stop and think about some of the people that you already have in your payroll or who are volunteering or who are writing your checks. It won’t hurt to ask your donors for ideas. Ask them what they’d like to see. It’s about getting people more and more engaged with what you’re doing and letting them know that what they’re contributing, whether it’s time, treasure, talent, or all three, how important that is. Let them know what’s possible through that regularly.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, that is really great. You took the words out of my mouth. I find people say, “I don’t have time to listen to podcasts.” Do you ever drive in your car anywhere? I never have anything but public radio and my podcasts, and I learn every time I listen to my podcast. What I appreciate about Russell David Dennis is that you are always working on your skill. You have a book you’re working on. What you pointed out is that just because you listened to it or read it doesn’t mean you know it all. What I have learned from our friend Ken Courtright is he goes back and reads great books again with a different colored highlighter. He finds that when he goes back and highlights passages that stand out to him, they are different than the ones he highlighted the first time. Either you didn’t see it or understand it, or you weren’t ready to learn it yet. I applaud what you said. That is a very good reminder for me. Just because you read it, just because you listened to it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t listen to it again because you are ready to learn the next thing.</p> <p>Russell, I’m grateful for you. Thank you for being on this series of podcasts. I would like to encourage people to go back and listen to this library of wonderful resources that we have as a gift for you. Please share your comments and the podcast on social media or on your email because we want people to listen to them. They are free. This is our gift to you.</p> <p>Russell, thank you for today. I am grateful to you, sir.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s very good. If folks don’t already, keep going back to the SynerVision page, the Nonprofit Culture Success page on Facebook, and the Nonprofit Exchange Channel. Make sure you subscribe to that on YouTube. Check back regularly. Go in the comment areas and let us know what you think and what you want to hear about because we are here to serve you and help you make more impact in your communities.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Good words, Russell. Thank you so much.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Setting Powerful Goals with Dr. Joe White</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/setting-powerful-goals-with-dr-joe-white</link>
      <description>Dr. Joe White is a nationally know, Author, speaker and business consultant. Joe has a true entrepreneurial spirit and it has allowed him to join the ranks of those entrepreneurs who can boast that they have never worked a 9 to 5 job throughout their adult life. His professional experience has quite varied Dr. White has sharpened his skills in several capacities. From serving as CEO and COO of million dollar companies, to speaking on stages across the country.
 In 2001 he started a real estate investment company buying and selling houses through out North Carolina. In 2005 he took to the stages across the country selling his Real Estate Course “How to Make 5,000 to 10,000 a month wholesaling real estate”. The course taught the successful strategies he learned and developed on buying and selling properties with little to no money down while running his company. During the 2005 lecture tour, he was asked to be the keynote speaker at the 2005 graduation of the Breakthrough Bible College in Temple Hills, Maryland. Where he was bestowed with an honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters during the graduation.
 Sault after for his advise and insight by business start ups, celebrates and large corporations. For over 20 years he has served the entrepreneur community. Launching events like The Triad Entrepreneur Pitch Tank the number one business event in the Triad area of NC, serving on boards such as Benaiah Holdings Group a OTC publicly traded venture capital firm and serving as the NC reparative for CEO Space International, the business conference ranked #1 in the world by Forbes and Inc. magazine as” the conference entrepreneurs can’t afford to miss.
 Dr. White is also the co-author of The Best selling book Concrete Jungle Success Strategies for the Real World, which also features best selling author and star of the movie The Secret Bob Proctor. Dr. Joe White is currently avalible for business consulting, real estate investing coaching and speaking engagements nationally and internationally. With topics ranging from Business Strategy, Goal Setting, Real estate Investing and Entrepreneurship.
 To Book Dr. Joe White or get more information email admin@drjoewhite.com or visit www.drjoewhite.com
  
 Here's the Transcript of the Interview
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome, everybody. The Nonprofit Exchange is about goals today. I am attending a conference and have a little bit of noise in the background. While our guest today, Joe White, is speaking, I will be muting myself so there is no noise in the background. I have known Dr. Joe White for a number of years. He is an expert in real estate. He is also an expert in leadership and goal-setting, among other things. About a year or so ago, I asked him to participate in my Nonprofit Leadership Empowerment Symposium and teach the module on goal-setting. He was so good it was better than me doing it. I invited him to come on the Nonprofit Exchange and talk about goal-setting. Joe, we have shared one of your books, the anthology, but I believe you have a book that is more about goals. Feel free to talk about that book. Joe White, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange.
 Joe: Thank you, Hugh. It is good to se you again.
 Hugh: We have our co-host Russell Dennis who is having some technical issues, but he will be on here to ask you some really hard questions later. He is streaming it live to Facebook. Dr. White, would you tell us about yourself, especially your background working with leaders and setting goals?
 Joe: Hugh, one of the things I always tell people that is unique about me is I am a person who has never had a job in my adult life. In not having a job or set occupation or set system, I pretty much had to figure out goals and systems and things like that at a very early age. What made me make that decision was when I had my first kid. I was thinking to myself without an college education, What can I do to mak sure my first daughter had the type of life I felt like she deserved? I knew entrepreneurship and business would be what I needed to do. I quickly started reading. I still to this day go through about four books a week. I study everything from business to entrepreneurship to real estate to religion to spirituality. I use all of that information and put it into different systems I use to help myself and my clients. I have been doing that since the age of 16, 17. I always had some way of making income that I would create myself just basically out of my head. I did real estate for a number of years. I took every course you could probably think of, every boot camp, workshop. Quickly made a million dollars in real estate. Switched from real estate to mental health for a while. Then I started doing speaking, consulting, and things like that, working with clients around the world, helping them be better in the areas of entrepreneurship and real estate investment.
 Hugh: That’s more than I had previously known about you.
 Joe: It’s something a little different.
 Hugh: Absolutely. That is why I invited you on today so we could learn some more about these different areas of expertise. Let’s talk about this topic of goals. Everybody writes goals. Very few people accomplish goals. I wanted to hone in on this particular piece because I have seen you teach this before. Why have you gravitated to this as one of the topics that you teach?
 Joe: I think that one of the things I feel like I am known for is making things simple for entrepreneurs and businesspeople because every business has its own language. If you were to go to Spain or Mexico and you didn’t speak Spanish, you couldn’t get a lot accomplished. What I try to do is make things simple. One of the first steps I think everybody needs to learn is how to set proper goals: the foundation of which everything in your business and your life is built upon. I feel like that was the best place to start. I read Think and Grow Rich when I was 14 years old. I have been setting goals ever since. I always learn something new. I am constantly studying. It is not like I learned about goals then and I stopped. I constantly study it. What I did was simplified the major techniques of goal-setting so that the average person could understand.
 Hugh: I have seen you present a short lesson on this. Are you prepared to give us Joe White’s overview of setting and achieving goals?
 Joe: I am.
 Hugh: Well, I am going to be all ears. I am going to listen for a little bit. Russell has been known to take notes and come back with a really hard question, so be prepared.
 Joe: I’m ready for you, Russ.
 So Hugh, what I will tell you is the system that I use for goal-setting, I call GPS. Just like you have a GPS in your car or on your phone, the purpose of the GPS is to guide you from one point to the destination you are looking to go to. I feel like GPS was the appropriate title for what I consider to be my goal-setting system. That stands for when I do that. When I say GPS, in this particular case, GPS stands for Goals, Purpose, Steps. Sometimes I interchange “system” with “steps” because sometimes we go through the steps, and sometimes we put a system in place in order to get what we actually need to get.
 What is a goal? It’s something you want to achieve in your life, in your business, in your personal life, or wherever it is. Most people die within five years after retiring. The reason why they die is because if we are not growing, we are dying. If you lose your purpose for life, what I am saying is you are probably going to die shortly after. Now, some people, if they retire, they will switch to something else, whether it’s taking care of their grandkids or going to another part-time job. But if we are not constantly working toward something, it’s like there is no reason to live. Goals are that important to our life. What we focus on is what we get. That is why it’s important to find things that we have to focus on for achievement.
 What really makes us happy—and it’s hard to define happiness—is seeing progress. Something about progress in human beings makes us happy or feel fulfilled. If you think about it, why I say that, I’ll give you an example. When we are growing up, most of the time in the house where we live, our mom would mark with a marker over your head how tall you were. You just couldn’t wait every month to see if you had grown. I used to be that small, and now I’m this tall. I was three feet, and now I’m four feet. We would get happy or excited to see that we had grown an inch or two inches and see how tall we got. That was progression. That was a way of measuring progression. We didn’t understand that was almost like goals because a lot of people will say, “I can’t wait to get as tall as Dad or my brother.” We were really setting goals. We were using the notches on the door or on the wall as a way of measuring that and showing progression. That is basically what I’m talking about when I’m talking about GPS. Let’s set a goal. Let’s measure the goal. Let’s put a system in place for getting that goal and knowing if we are on track or off track.
 The other thing that I love to tell people about is what’s called goal alignment. This is what I really talked a lot about, Hugh, at your event. Most people understand the basics of goals. What they don’t understand is there has to be a balance to goals. You just can’t have a goal to make a million dollars and not have other goals. I will give you some examples and tell you what I’m talking about. I set goals in every major area of my life. Just like a car has to be aligned, if you drive a car and the car is not aligned, when you start to go fast, the car will start to shake. If you go off the road, you could crash. Something bad could happen because you are going fast and you haven’t aligned the car. The same thing happens in our life when we don’t align our goals.
 You have to set goals in all the major areas of your life, not just in the financial area or the weight loss area. You have to set goals in your physical area. The reason why that is important, and I will give you examples on how goal alignment works in each of those areas, is if I don’t set a physical goal to exercise and take care of my health and go to the doctor and get checkups, if I am working on these financial goals and my business goals, and I get sick or have a heart attack or something else, all of those goals now crash. Then my #1 focus will have to be on my health, so I have to have health goals.
 In my spiritual life, I have to have spiritual goals because a lot of times that is where fulfillment comes in, that is where balance comes in.
 My family life: if I don’t take care of my kids, there are so many people who are wealthy who have problems with their kids where their kids are on drugs or whatever is happening. The kids are getting in trouble. When that comes up, now you have to take your focus off the business and money and build those kids. They are in trouble because you didn’t make taking care of your kids or teaching your kids part of your goals.
 Part of my goals are physical and spiritual and family and friends. I don’t know about you, but I know we have all had a situation with a friend where we say, “I really need to call this person,” and then something happens. The friend passes, God forbid, and you feel really bad because you feel like you didn’t call that friend or family member before they passed. We have to have goals in the friend area.
 We have to have goals in the spouse area. How many people do you know who have been successful in business, and then they get a divorce and lose it all or lose half or lose the focus? Now later on they are regretting it, “I am enjoying the money, but I wish I had a better relationship with my wife or my kids.” There has to be goals in every single area of your life.
 You have to look at where these different areas are, where these different roles and responsibilities lie. I am a father, I am a son, and I am a business owner. You have to set goals for each of those. If you don’t, what happens is you are going to have a crash in another area that will take away from you achieving those goals. That is what goal alignment is, and that is why that balance is super important. A lot of people don’t think about that when they think about goals.
 The next thing is the P. Do you have a question, Hugh?
 Hugh: This is good stuff. You got my attention when you said people die five years after they retire. That is why Russ and I never retire. We keep pushing the inevitable later and later. This is so good. People set goals without the realization of what is the benefit. How is it going to benefit me in my life? You talked about that a little bit. Go ahead. This is extremely valuable stuff.
 Before you end, I want to focus on personal goals and corporate goals. We are leading a charity, church, or synagogue, so those are organizational goals. Very often, we don’t write personal goals. Then compare the two. Let me not interrupt you any more. This is really good stuff. They can comment. Russ, is your audio working yet? I don’t know if his audio is working yet. Are you there?
 Russell Dennis: I’m going to try. Can you hear me again?
 Hugh: Yes. Glad you’re here. Just know, Joe, that he is capturing sound bites in his brilliant way. He will have a chance to come back with questions. Russ, if it’s okay, we’ll let him finish his presentation part, and then I’d like to throw it to you for a few questions, if that works for you.
 Russell: That will work.
 Hugh: All right, Joe, go on.
 Joe: Those are called areas of management. Everybody has two main areas of management, which are the personal areas of management and your business areas of management. Each of those areas has to be aligned. You want to balance out your business area. What are the key elements in business that make you successful and set goals in those areas? What are the key elements you need for your personal life? Set goals in those areas. I used to think, I only need a business goal or a sales goal or a money goal. But I quickly learned I had to balance all those areas in business and personal.
 Going to the P in GPS, the P stands for purpose. It is your why. I can tell you about setting all these goals, but it doesn’t make a difference if you don’t have a why. The why is the gas in the tank of the car. It’s what makes things go. If I tell you, “Don’t touch the stove,” we would tell little kids not to touch the stove, the first thing they say is, “Why?” “Because it’s hot.” Maybe they don’t understand at first, but the moment they touch the stove, they quickly understand that it’s hot. That is the motivation, the why. Why don’t we run red lights? Why does everybody stop at a red light? Because you will get a ticket. That motivates us not to do it. We have to understand with anything we’re doing what’s our why. Why are we doing this? What feeling, reward, are we going to get from actually achieving that goal? That is going to be the motivation for us to act. If we don’t understand that why, we often don’t achieve the goal.
 One of the most average, normal goals that everyone wants to set is how to lose weight. The problem becomes a lot of times the why isn’t strong enough. The why isn’t more powerful than the ice cream sundae. Sometimes we have to do a deep dive within ourselves and figure out why we want it. Sometimes it’s not important enough to us. We’re okay with where we are. Sometimes people don’t go after that goal. We definitely want to build a strong why.
 The S is Steps or System. If you remember before there was GPS, everyone would pretty much have a map. We would get these maps from the gas station. How we would gauge if we took a trip to Winston-Salem, where I live, to Orlando, Florida, where Hugh is now, is we would look at the map and see the different cities along the way. I would see in an hour and a half I would be in Charlotte. Then I’ll be in Georgia. Then I’ll be in Jacksonville. Then I’ll be in Orlando. That was a way of us gauging we were going in the right direction. Sometimes when my GPS screws up and it sets me on the wrong road, it will reroute me back the right way. That happens to us sometimes, too, when we are doing goals. We start going the wrong direction, and we have to reroute ourselves to go back in the right direction.
 I’m saying all that to say if we have a goal to lose 30 pounds, we want to plan stops along the way. We want to say, “Okay, in one month I am going to lose ten pounds. Month two I am going to lose pounds. Month three I am going to lose ten pounds.” When we gauge or check, we know we are headed in the right direction. If we’re not, we know we need to do something different. We need to exercise more or diet more or whatever it is we need to do. But that is just a way of gauging if we are going in the right direction.
 The other thing is systems. A lot of times you don’t have to think of everything yourself. There are systems already in place created by other people that allow you to just plug and play. I am a big fan of systems. I listen to Dave Ramsay and use his budgeting system. There are different dieting systems. If you think about a company like McDonald’s, every Big Mac at every McDonald’s tastes the same way. That is because they have a system in place to make it the same no matter where you go. There are systems in every area of life that you can plug and play that will help you get the result you are looking for. Again, that goes back to that why. If you don’t have a strong enough why, you don’t move forward in the systems and actually do the things you are supposed to do.
 Questions, Russ?
 Russell: Good day. Thanks for joining us. Can you guys hear me okay?
 Hugh: We can.
 Russell: Excellent. I love the GPS. It’s really a good direction. We rely on these for our cars. We rely on them to keep us going the way that we’re going. It’s important to put the right information in the GPS, so the why is really critical. How long have you been using the GPS system, and what sort of success have you had with the people you work with in explaining this system? It certainly sounds like something that people, once they hear about it, get.
 Joe: I have been using it for five years. I use it a lot of times on projects. I have a lot of clients I work with. Some are celebrity clients. I am working on projects, whether they are movies, television shows, major real estate projects, or projects for hedge funds. Pretty much, even though they are all big strategic projects, some are small or some are up to ten million, the premise is till the same. There is a goal they want at the end: if it is a movie, to get the movie made; if it’s a TV show, to get the season filmed; if it is a real estate project, to raise the money in order to buy the land. It’s the same process, GPS. I have used that process with major clients to regular people.
 Russell: Do you find that people who work with this system enjoy using it? Whether the results they have gotten using the GPS system as opposed to what they have tried before.
 Joe: What I find is that people like things they can relate to something else. What helps us understand something is when we can say, “Okay, this is sort of like this.” When you can say, “Okay, I get it because I can think of a map and destinations and directions. It’s pretty simple.” The current project I am working on is for a large television show with a celebrity who has been on TV for years. We use the system for funding and getting the project done. We had great results and raised half a million dollars. I am using the system now with a former NBA player. He is raising five million dollars, and we have had great progress. We are still in the middle of it. I have used it for myself for years.
 I used it also on my kids. I don’t tell my kids what to do anymore because they are all in college, but I coached them. This is one of the things I coached them on. What are your goals? What type of grade do you want to get in this class? How many hours do you ned to put in? How much do you need to study? What do you need to study in? Things of that nature. I am working on my daughter now who is taking the bar. We are using GPS to get her prepared for the bar. Her goal is to pass the bar and start to practice law. So far, we are having great success with her as well.
 Russell: The thing with this system that makes it so beautiful is that it’s simple. But it can be deceptively simple because of the concept. Have you found people that stumble with it or just stumble grasping the simplicity of it and applying it to their goals?
 Joe: I think that goes back to that why piece. Most things to do with success are easy anyway. We all pretty much know what we need to do. If we need to lose weight, we know that we need to move more and eat less. What stops us from doing that is not having a strong enough why. You want something that you shouldn’t have more than you want the results that you want. I don’t think it’s so hard; I think the discipline comes into anything you want to achieve. Anything you really want, there is an element of discipline. I always think about people who pray but never take any action. There is a funny story I heard about a woman who wanted to win the lottery. She would get up every single morning for a year and say, “God, please let me win the lottery today. I hope I win that million dollars.” She kept doing it for a year. By the end of the time, He said, “Listen, lady, I need some help. At least buy a ticket.” Often that’s what I find a lot of people do. They don’t buy a ticket.
 Russell: When people come to you, they probably have gotten to know who you are. When people come to you, where do they typically find themselves? Is a typical person that comes to you someone who is already a high performance person, or do you get people who are stuck personally and professionally looking for solutions?
 Joe: I think a lot of people find me when they have vision confusion. They have a vision of something they want, but it’s almost like they don’t know how to get it. I do believe a good coach doesn’t really give you the answers, but a coach pulls the answers out of you that are already there but you just don’t believe that those are the answers. With anybody I work with, from celebrities to my kids, I find they all have the same similar issues. They know the answers; you just have to pull them out of them.
 Russell: Okay. I think people have an inherent genius and they get blocked. You talked about the word “belief.” I think that’s critical because I have had blockages. It’s really a matter of what I believe would actually happen. So when you meet a person and they are in that place and it is clear to you that the belief is the problem, how do you approach getting them on track? Seeing the possibilities when they are stuck?
 Joe: I think that there is something I use called the power of questions. Anytime there is something wrong, pray first. Then if you sit down with a piece of yellow paper and write the numbers 1-50, I say to write 50 ways to make this happen. Let’s look at the top three ways you come up with and read those top three ways every day. There is something, too, about the subconscious mind. That is when we go back to reading Think and Grow Rich. Normally I fall asleep with it playing on my audiobook, and I will wake up and play it again. Building that subconscious mind, that self-confidence, doing affirmations, redoing it every single day to build your confidence and faith in yourself, and then going back to those solutions that you know you should use and implement them. I was seeing something on Facebook the other day: Motivation gets you in the game; execution keeps you there.
 Russell: It is about executing. It is about taking action. For me, I have had to act my way out of these blockages more than anything else. Once you get somebody to believe, do you start on the small scale, or do you just say we are going to go into this at full speed? Do you start at a small scale and build small victories? Or does that approach vary from person to person?
 Joe: I think it varies from person to person because different people need different things. I have had celebrities that you would think would be much further ahead than the average person, and they really aren’t. Everybody has different strengths and weaknesses. Most people do a SWAT. What are your strengths and weaknesses? We talk about that. We need to look at if we need to strengthen the strengths or the weaknesses first. That is normally where the first place I start is.
 Are you the right person to be doing certain things? There are some things you maybe shouldn’t do. Maybe if you are bad at accounting or bad at money, instead of getting stronger at budgeting, maybe you need to bring in someone who is already strong at that, a CFO or something like that, to handle that particular issue. Everybody we deal with a little bit differently.
 Russell: Okay. I think it’s probably better to work from your strengths. Sometimes we can burn a lot of energy working on weaknesses. Do you find that that is a big part of the roadblock? Too much focus on the weakness.
 Joe: Most definitely. Recently, I was doing a lot of studying on how to do Wordpress to do my own website development. I felt myself spending so much time on that. I said, “You know what? The time I am spending on trying to learn this, I could have hired somebody and been doing something that actually matters that makes me money.” It’s not that it’s not important, and I like to be able to update it; I’ve got that part. Some of the design, it’s not a good use of my time to learn how to do all of that. I think we all have to look at what things we should remove from our day or remove that we don’t do.
 There’s something I call the time-money equation. Is this the time I’m spending off the money I will make doing the major things that I do? If it’s not, I don’t need to do it. That may be cleaning the house, cutting the grass, washing the car, whatever it is. The majority of our time needs to be spent on what h most important things for me to do to make progress.
 Russell: That’s a good way to measure. Does the time spent actually pay for itself? Does it pay for itself? Everybody has got a little bit of a different value. Do you tend to move people toward monitoring value? Is it personal core values? How do you help people prioritize that cost and that value, that time spent?
 Joe: I think there are different currencies. Sometimes we only speak of money as currency. Time is a currency. Health is a currency. So I think we have to look at what the most important currency is. Do you want to free up your time so you can work on the other areas that we talked about with your goals, keeping that system in balance? Now I am going to stop doing the things that I’m not good at. I’m going to outsource them. I am going to focus on freeing up the currency that is time so I can spend it with my family, friends, wife, or whomever, so I can achieve the goals in those other areas we talked about that are important. There are all kinds of currencies. I don’t want to think money is the only currency. Some people’s goals are not to make lots of money; they want to make enough money to be comfortable but to have enough time to spend with their family and enjoy life. There is a balance we all have to find.
 Russell: I believe that people just don’t have money for the sake of having money. What are the things that money are going to allow me to do? That might mean spending more time with family. That might mean vacationing. That might mean providing help or actually spending time working on a cause that is important to them. It’s a little bit different for everyone, I believe. As a group, I know you work with people from many different walks of life. Do you find that people who are what I call difference-makers—my friend Wendy Lipton-Dibner says they are people with the heart space. They are either faith-based or working with a charity. Do you mind that these folks are more conflicted than folks that work in the corporate area, or are the problems universal, regardless of the type of profession a person takes on?
 Joe: I think they’re universal. There may be the different currencies they are looking for. But I think it’s universal what they’re actually looking for. Some people in the heart space are looking to make a difference in as many lives as possible. Other people are looking to make money, and maybe they use that money to make a difference. It depends on the individual.
 Russell: How common is it when a person is sort of stuck professionally for it to be a personal heart space type of manner? Do you find that most of the blockages, regardless of what they are, can be traced to personal confusion or blockage?
 Joe: I think sometimes we want to repeat the same act but the show has moved on. What I mean by that is things change. When you look at commercials that have the ‘60s, ‘70s, ‘80s, and ‘90s, you will start to see a big change in fashion, but also the energy, how everybody looks. I think every ten years, the world changes. If you don’t change in that ten-year space with the world, you will often get left behind. Then you’re stuck because you’re still trying to use what worked in that ten years in this ten years. I look at some of the changes that are coming up, and I see a lot of people who are stuck.
 We have a system where they are doing self-driving trucks. In the next six years, they are probably going to get rid of 60-70% of truck drivers. We get self-driving cars. We have screens on restaurants that are going to be taking orders. If you are still trying to drive a truck, and 70% of the work is gone, then of course you are going to be stuck. I think what happens to people that we are not adapting.
 One of the blogs I am working on writing right now is what would happen if you got fired today? It’s one of the reasons I am really big on entrepreneurship and why I love working with entrepreneurs. There is not the job security that we used to have. So many jobs are going overseas, technology. I think that we have to adapt with the times. We have to always be growing. Going back to when we were talking about how when people don’t grow, they die. I think that there are a lot of people I come across who haven’t read a book since high school. They spend all their time either working or watching TV.
 Hugh: Russ, those are really good questions. I was going to encourage you to make them harder and harder. What Russ and I know to be true, and I have discovered this about Joe a while back, is that we in SynerVision—Russ is one of the WayFinders in SynerVision—reframe a consultant to be a WayFinder, but we also reframe strategies that aren’t working. I would want to know from Joe a couple of things. Russ, maybe you had a couple more and I interrupted you. I’m sorry if you do. But may I ask two right here?
 Russell: Go for it.
 Hugh: It’s piggybacking on what you are setting up so well. What are some of the things people do that are wrong that hurt them? What are some of the worst practices? You are giving us some best practices. What are some of the things that people should avoid doing? Russ, I will give it to you, and then you can take us out. We are in the last 15 minutes of the interview, so I will let you do a wrap, if you will.
 Joe: I would say number one is not being consistent. Sometimes you have the start/stop issue. They start something, they do it for a week or two, and they stop. If you start losing weight and working out, then you stop, of course your body will go back to where it was before, and then you are starting over. When they start over, they get discouraged or they can’t find that same why that actually motivated them the first time.
 The other thing is to listen to people who don’t have their best interest at heart. A lot of times, what happens is when you start to make progress in your life, that makes people around you who aren’t making progress uncomfortable. If you can do it, then they have to look at themselves and say, “Why aren’t I doing that?” It’s much easier to stomp on your dreams or tell you you shouldn’t be wasting your time losing weight than it is to actually do something themselves. I think that when we are starting to make change, we have to start to be friendly but not familiar. What I mean by that, even with family, sometimes we have to distance ourselves, or just show up at the Thanksgiving dinner but maybe in between that we don’t talk as much because we are working on our goals. We don’t need anything to taint that process or contaminate it. We need to stay focused on it and we need to stay consistent.
 Russell: Some people won’t lift you up. It’s hard to leave people behind. I think that’s kind of a common problem. If I change, I am going to start losing people. That becomes a personal challenge that creates an inner conflict. One of our running jokes that I have with Hugh is that when I am standing in a room and I look up and realize that I’m the smartest guy in there, I run like hell and find myself another room because there is that disconnect. I know the work you do has a way to build accountability as part of that system. Do you find that a lot of people make commitments to others they don’t make to themselves? In those instances, how do you help them work around that?
 Joe: I deal with that all the time. As a matter of fact, a coach is almost like a paid accountability partner. What I find a lot of people, and I’m guilty of this, too, is we will keep promises to others, but we won’t keep them to ourselves. When you don’t keep promises to yourself, that is actually what starts to kill your self-esteem and your confidence. Now you don’t have confidence in your own word. If you kept breaking promises to your kids, eventually they won’t believe what you say. If you do that to yourself on a constant basis, say I’m going to lose weight or I am going to make $10,000 and it doesn’t happen over a period of time, you actually lose confidence in yourself. Whether you feel it or not, it’s actually happening.
 What I believe you should do is either make a public declaration, like going on Facebook and saying I am going to do this by this time, because normally people will say something about it. Or you have an accountability partner who checks in with you once a week, and you tell them what you did toward your goal that week; maybe you do the same thing for them. Or you pay somebody to be accountable to. When I had a trainer, I felt like he was trying to kill me. I don’t know if he had life insurance on me or what was going on. He would ask me every single week, “Let me see your food journal. What did you eat?” That accountability does help.
 Russell: I have an accountability coach. Wonderful guy. Hugh knows him. He has become a very good friend: Ryan Roy. The name of his business is Justify or Just Do It. His reasons are results. I think there is a level of comfort that comes from finding a reason why something didn’t happen. Sometimes what we do doesn’t work, but do you find that you come across a lot of people that would rather be in that comfort zone than actually really looking at results? Is excuse-making something that happens frequently?
 Joe: I think we all do that at times. We make an excuse as a way of keeping ourselves comfortable, but it’s not getting us closer to our goals. I think that one of the reasons we have to measure constantly is when we measure something, there is no way we can deny that we are not getting results. The other thing is sometimes you have to come up with multiple ways of measuring.
 I go back to losing weight because it’s something we can all relate to. I know I want to do it. But I realize that sometimes I would work out super hard, eat right for a whole week, and I wouldn’t lose one single pound. What could happen is I would get discouraged, say this isn’t working, and go eat the ice cream sundae. Then I start realizing, You know what? Maybe what I have to do is measure inches, too. I have to take a tape measure and measure the inches in the areas I want to lose because maybe I’m not losing pounds but inches of fat. Or maybe I’m gaining muscle. One of the things to prevent being discouraged or getting in the zone like feeling something isn’t working is we have to find multiple ways to measure if we are making progress. There are multiple ways to see the growth.
 Russell: One of the things that Ryan has said to me is it took me a while to wrap my mind around the idea of celebrating small things. It doesn’t matter how small. It’s celebrate. That’s what I like about your GPS system because you are talking about pulling things apart. That’s what we try to advocate. Pull things apart. Take the larger goal. Pull it apart. Get smaller, more manageable. These little things add up to success. You get momentum. What are some of the ways that you help people build that momentum so that they are actually moving forward and are looking at things that can be measured?
 Joe: I think that any time you start a goal, you need a springboard. You need a way to have at least a small succession in a short period of time so the motivation stays high for you to continue. I go back to losing weight. It may be that you have a week where there is a cleanse or a fast. It’s a little simpler to do, and it gets off three to four pounds. All of a sudden, you kickstart everything. When I am teaching real estate, I give my students a kickstart course, which is a simple course with four to five simple instructions that allows you to go out and see progress instantly so you are motivated to continue.
 Russell: That’s it. Sometimes it’s hard. We have to look back. That’s the beauty and importance of making instant win. When somebody hasn’t been doing things, they start working with you and they’re not stuck, but you go a week and they are just on fire. You talk to them a few days or a week later, and they don’t just have a list, they start off with a list of three things. The next time you talk to them they have War and Peace in front of them. How do you help them manage that process? Does it go from one thing to the extreme to the other? They’re enthusiastic; you don’t want to dampen that. But how do you reel that in as it were to keep somebody from overextending themselves?
 Joe: That’s the catch. When we were first talking about GPS, we talked about setting goals in multiple areas of your life. They have to crash sometimes. Something happens in the personal life because you didn’t set a goal in that area. All of a sudden, you can’t focus on the business life. Or something is happening physically because you didn’t set goals in that area. That is why those crashes come up. If you align, that doesn’t happen as often.
 What I mean by that is if you think about a lot of pro athletes who didn’t study finance, all of a sudden they get a contract with millions of dollars. Life starts to go fast, and now you see all those other issues. They didn’t focus on their spirituality, so issues come up. They didn’t focus on learning their financial piece about money, so now they start having money problems. When they leave the NBA or NFL, they’re broke. They didn’t align everything, so when life starts to go fast, a crash happens.
 We have to balance out all those areas in our life and set goals in those individual areas from financial to physical to spiritual to family to spouse to home to auto. When I have my system in place, I have home, auto, style, fashion, everything because there has to be a balance in there that all of these things are important to my life. If I neglect them, there will be a consequence at some point in time. That’s the crash: the consequences from not actually balancing everything out. It’s simple, but it’s complicated. It’s simple because all you have to do is sit down with a piece of paper and say, “What do I want in my physical life? What do I want my health to be like? What do I want my relationship with my creator to be like? What do I want my relationship to be like with my kids? Am I once a week going to take my kids on a date?” Sometimes couples do date night; what about your kids? Have a date night with your kids where you are going to take two hours once a week to spend with each kid because you are going to have two to three kids and not know them as individuals. You have to have that individual time as well. Or what about your spouse? After being in a relationship for so many years, you start to be more like roommates than lovers. There is no romance. That’s because you didn’t set a goal for that to happen. You didn’t focus on that, so it didn’t come to fruition.
 I saw Hugh on his birthday, and he was out on a date with his wife at a concert. Go, Hugh! That’s GPS in the works. It worked. Keeping the juices going.
 Russell: I’m just wondering if he said to her, “Honey, you should probably drive because I’ve had a little bit. Because of my age and mental condition, I’ve forgotten my way to the theater.” She probably said, “Turn on the GPS.”
 Joe: That’s probably exactly what happened.
 Hugh: My wife taught me harassment is a form of affection. I’m getting some of that now.
 Russell: I only torture people I love. Speaking of people that we love… What happened to me is I said I was going to do some things. Your family may hear some of these grand ideas and schemes and go, “Ah yeah, there he goes again.” There could be a little skepticism from those who are close to us. It’s easy for a bachelor like me, but if you get somebody that is married and they have a family, sometimes that natural resistance that we have within ourselves, it comes from people around us. What are some ways you help people address that? That is very real. There is a lot of pressure with children, spouse, and other obligations.
 Joe: I believe every new ideal is born drowning. When you first come up with something in the first few minutes, the moment that you come up with it, it’s best not to share it. It’s better to fully develop it. Someone could say something negative, and it automatically starts to kill that dream because you haven’t fully completed a vision. If you are going to share that idea, don’t share it with anybody who is going to say something negative right away. Go to your support system. Go to your mastermind. Go to the people who are going to tell you how to make it happen, not the people who are going to tell you what could happen if you start to move in that way. I always believe if I come up with a great idea, I don’t even want to share it. If I come up with a new book idea, there are certain people I am not going to share it with, except for a Hugh or a Russ who are going to say, “Joe, you should do this with that,” and they start pouring into that idea, breathing life into it, giving me positive feedback.
 Russell: That’s important. Use the support systems that are available and keep it moving. Hugh?
 Hugh: I have a contrasting perspective on that. Sorry there are people being loud around me. My A of SMART goals is accountable. I find there is power in sharing it. I find motivation in like you said, Joe, when you write a goal and people go, “Let me connect you with some people. I can help you with that.” That is one powerful way of motivating ourselves with our goals, by sharing it. Another one is what Russ brought up, sharing it and people go, “You’re going to do what?” I call that motivation. Watch me! There is a twist on that piece. I think you can win.
 We are coming up to our last five minutes here. Russ, do you have any more questions? Or do you want to let Joe do a final tip or piece of advice for people?
 Russell: There is a lot. I could spend all day asking questions. But I would really love for Joe to put a nice bow on it and talk to people because they face all of these doubts. As I said before, their system is deceptively simple in the concept of its intent. Taking that initial step, taking that initial step no matter how overwhelmed you are. I would love to have you talk to people about how they can do that, how they can fight that fear and move through that.
 Joe: Going through the system like you said is really simple. Figure out what you want in your goal. Hugh spoke briefly about SMART goals. You could easily, and I’ll be happy to put a link up to a SMART goal sheet people can use. SMART goals is that the goal should be specific, measurable- What is the A, Hugh? I forgot.
 Hugh: Accountable.
 Joe: He said it before. Accountable. The goal should be realistic and time-sensitive. I will put up some SMART goal sheets on my website that you can use when setting your goals. I like to keep things simple, and that is why I came up with GPS. Know your goal, know why you want that goal, and know the steps to getting there. Simple steps. If it’s five steps or ten steps, whatever the steps are. One of my goals is to help 100 people make $10,000 in real estate investing. To anyone who is on the actual podcast, if they will go to drjoewhite.com/freegift, I am going to put up the SMART goal sheets. I will give them a book on actual goal setting, and I will give them my free real estate kickstart course. That is quite a bit of stuff. Drjoewhite.com/freegift. They can have all of that stuff if they go there.
 Russell: I put that link up in the chat. That’s great stuff. That’s wonderful.
 Hugh: We’ll make sure that link is in the notes for the podcast and on the page for the Nonprofit Exchange at thenonprofitexchange.org. We will put those links on that page.
 Russell: Yeah, I’ve got it in the chat here. This is wonderful stuff, Joe. I love your system. I am going to go have a look at that. Love to talk to you a little bit further.
 Joe: Most definitely, Russ. I am here to help anybody I can. I enjoy helping. I think service is super important. I want to serve and be a servant and help in any way I possibly can. We all have some things we want to achieve. We all want to be better. I would just say to everybody that now is the time. If not now, when? That is what I always ask people.
 Russell: Now is the time. Hugh?
 Hugh: Time is now. The time is now. Russ, those were really good questions. Joe, I teach goals, but like I said earlier in the broadcast, Joe did this module in my workshop in Raleigh. He did a better job than I do teaching my modules. I wanted to have him here to do that. When Russ does a module, he does a better job than me. One way I look really good is surround yourself better than you are, which is what Russ talked about earlier. Joe, thank you so much for being a guest today. Russ, thank you for being my co-host in this and crafting such great questions. Joe, we will put your information on the podcast and on the site. Thank you for the offer and the free gift for people.
 Joe: Thank you, Hugh. Have a great trip and a great time in Florida.
 Hugh: I’m loving it. Thank you.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2017 16:25:59 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/80cd9d90-b329-11eb-9f0f-1f19b5fd01ed/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>The GPS Goals System</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Dr. Joe White is a nationally know, Author, speaker and business consultant. Joe has a true entrepreneurial spirit and it has allowed him to join the ranks of those entrepreneurs who can boast that they have never worked a 9 to 5 job throughout their adult life. His professional experience has quite varied Dr. White has sharpened his skills in several capacities. From serving as CEO and COO of million dollar companies, to speaking on stages across the country.
 In 2001 he started a real estate investment company buying and selling houses through out North Carolina. In 2005 he took to the stages across the country selling his Real Estate Course “How to Make 5,000 to 10,000 a month wholesaling real estate”. The course taught the successful strategies he learned and developed on buying and selling properties with little to no money down while running his company. During the 2005 lecture tour, he was asked to be the keynote speaker at the 2005 graduation of the Breakthrough Bible College in Temple Hills, Maryland. Where he was bestowed with an honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters during the graduation.
 Sault after for his advise and insight by business start ups, celebrates and large corporations. For over 20 years he has served the entrepreneur community. Launching events like The Triad Entrepreneur Pitch Tank the number one business event in the Triad area of NC, serving on boards such as Benaiah Holdings Group a OTC publicly traded venture capital firm and serving as the NC reparative for CEO Space International, the business conference ranked #1 in the world by Forbes and Inc. magazine as” the conference entrepreneurs can’t afford to miss.
 Dr. White is also the co-author of The Best selling book Concrete Jungle Success Strategies for the Real World, which also features best selling author and star of the movie The Secret Bob Proctor. Dr. Joe White is currently avalible for business consulting, real estate investing coaching and speaking engagements nationally and internationally. With topics ranging from Business Strategy, Goal Setting, Real estate Investing and Entrepreneurship.
 To Book Dr. Joe White or get more information email admin@drjoewhite.com or visit www.drjoewhite.com
  
 Here's the Transcript of the Interview
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome, everybody. The Nonprofit Exchange is about goals today. I am attending a conference and have a little bit of noise in the background. While our guest today, Joe White, is speaking, I will be muting myself so there is no noise in the background. I have known Dr. Joe White for a number of years. He is an expert in real estate. He is also an expert in leadership and goal-setting, among other things. About a year or so ago, I asked him to participate in my Nonprofit Leadership Empowerment Symposium and teach the module on goal-setting. He was so good it was better than me doing it. I invited him to come on the Nonprofit Exchange and talk about goal-setting. Joe, we have shared one of your books, the anthology, but I believe you have a book that is more about goals. Feel free to talk about that book. Joe White, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange.
 Joe: Thank you, Hugh. It is good to se you again.
 Hugh: We have our co-host Russell Dennis who is having some technical issues, but he will be on here to ask you some really hard questions later. He is streaming it live to Facebook. Dr. White, would you tell us about yourself, especially your background working with leaders and setting goals?
 Joe: Hugh, one of the things I always tell people that is unique about me is I am a person who has never had a job in my adult life. In not having a job or set occupation or set system, I pretty much had to figure out goals and systems and things like that at a very early age. What made me make that decision was when I had my first kid. I was thinking to myself without an college education, What can I do to mak sure my first daughter had the type of life I felt like she deserved? I knew entrepreneurship and business would be what I needed to do. I quickly started reading. I still to this day go through about four books a week. I study everything from business to entrepreneurship to real estate to religion to spirituality. I use all of that information and put it into different systems I use to help myself and my clients. I have been doing that since the age of 16, 17. I always had some way of making income that I would create myself just basically out of my head. I did real estate for a number of years. I took every course you could probably think of, every boot camp, workshop. Quickly made a million dollars in real estate. Switched from real estate to mental health for a while. Then I started doing speaking, consulting, and things like that, working with clients around the world, helping them be better in the areas of entrepreneurship and real estate investment.
 Hugh: That’s more than I had previously known about you.
 Joe: It’s something a little different.
 Hugh: Absolutely. That is why I invited you on today so we could learn some more about these different areas of expertise. Let’s talk about this topic of goals. Everybody writes goals. Very few people accomplish goals. I wanted to hone in on this particular piece because I have seen you teach this before. Why have you gravitated to this as one of the topics that you teach?
 Joe: I think that one of the things I feel like I am known for is making things simple for entrepreneurs and businesspeople because every business has its own language. If you were to go to Spain or Mexico and you didn’t speak Spanish, you couldn’t get a lot accomplished. What I try to do is make things simple. One of the first steps I think everybody needs to learn is how to set proper goals: the foundation of which everything in your business and your life is built upon. I feel like that was the best place to start. I read Think and Grow Rich when I was 14 years old. I have been setting goals ever since. I always learn something new. I am constantly studying. It is not like I learned about goals then and I stopped. I constantly study it. What I did was simplified the major techniques of goal-setting so that the average person could understand.
 Hugh: I have seen you present a short lesson on this. Are you prepared to give us Joe White’s overview of setting and achieving goals?
 Joe: I am.
 Hugh: Well, I am going to be all ears. I am going to listen for a little bit. Russell has been known to take notes and come back with a really hard question, so be prepared.
 Joe: I’m ready for you, Russ.
 So Hugh, what I will tell you is the system that I use for goal-setting, I call GPS. Just like you have a GPS in your car or on your phone, the purpose of the GPS is to guide you from one point to the destination you are looking to go to. I feel like GPS was the appropriate title for what I consider to be my goal-setting system. That stands for when I do that. When I say GPS, in this particular case, GPS stands for Goals, Purpose, Steps. Sometimes I interchange “system” with “steps” because sometimes we go through the steps, and sometimes we put a system in place in order to get what we actually need to get.
 What is a goal? It’s something you want to achieve in your life, in your business, in your personal life, or wherever it is. Most people die within five years after retiring. The reason why they die is because if we are not growing, we are dying. If you lose your purpose for life, what I am saying is you are probably going to die shortly after. Now, some people, if they retire, they will switch to something else, whether it’s taking care of their grandkids or going to another part-time job. But if we are not constantly working toward something, it’s like there is no reason to live. Goals are that important to our life. What we focus on is what we get. That is why it’s important to find things that we have to focus on for achievement.
 What really makes us happy—and it’s hard to define happiness—is seeing progress. Something about progress in human beings makes us happy or feel fulfilled. If you think about it, why I say that, I’ll give you an example. When we are growing up, most of the time in the house where we live, our mom would mark with a marker over your head how tall you were. You just couldn’t wait every month to see if you had grown. I used to be that small, and now I’m this tall. I was three feet, and now I’m four feet. We would get happy or excited to see that we had grown an inch or two inches and see how tall we got. That was progression. That was a way of measuring progression. We didn’t understand that was almost like goals because a lot of people will say, “I can’t wait to get as tall as Dad or my brother.” We were really setting goals. We were using the notches on the door or on the wall as a way of measuring that and showing progression. That is basically what I’m talking about when I’m talking about GPS. Let’s set a goal. Let’s measure the goal. Let’s put a system in place for getting that goal and knowing if we are on track or off track.
 The other thing that I love to tell people about is what’s called goal alignment. This is what I really talked a lot about, Hugh, at your event. Most people understand the basics of goals. What they don’t understand is there has to be a balance to goals. You just can’t have a goal to make a million dollars and not have other goals. I will give you some examples and tell you what I’m talking about. I set goals in every major area of my life. Just like a car has to be aligned, if you drive a car and the car is not aligned, when you start to go fast, the car will start to shake. If you go off the road, you could crash. Something bad could happen because you are going fast and you haven’t aligned the car. The same thing happens in our life when we don’t align our goals.
 You have to set goals in all the major areas of your life, not just in the financial area or the weight loss area. You have to set goals in your physical area. The reason why that is important, and I will give you examples on how goal alignment works in each of those areas, is if I don’t set a physical goal to exercise and take care of my health and go to the doctor and get checkups, if I am working on these financial goals and my business goals, and I get sick or have a heart attack or something else, all of those goals now crash. Then my #1 focus will have to be on my health, so I have to have health goals.
 In my spiritual life, I have to have spiritual goals because a lot of times that is where fulfillment comes in, that is where balance comes in.
 My family life: if I don’t take care of my kids, there are so many people who are wealthy who have problems with their kids where their kids are on drugs or whatever is happening. The kids are getting in trouble. When that comes up, now you have to take your focus off the business and money and build those kids. They are in trouble because you didn’t make taking care of your kids or teaching your kids part of your goals.
 Part of my goals are physical and spiritual and family and friends. I don’t know about you, but I know we have all had a situation with a friend where we say, “I really need to call this person,” and then something happens. The friend passes, God forbid, and you feel really bad because you feel like you didn’t call that friend or family member before they passed. We have to have goals in the friend area.
 We have to have goals in the spouse area. How many people do you know who have been successful in business, and then they get a divorce and lose it all or lose half or lose the focus? Now later on they are regretting it, “I am enjoying the money, but I wish I had a better relationship with my wife or my kids.” There has to be goals in every single area of your life.
 You have to look at where these different areas are, where these different roles and responsibilities lie. I am a father, I am a son, and I am a business owner. You have to set goals for each of those. If you don’t, what happens is you are going to have a crash in another area that will take away from you achieving those goals. That is what goal alignment is, and that is why that balance is super important. A lot of people don’t think about that when they think about goals.
 The next thing is the P. Do you have a question, Hugh?
 Hugh: This is good stuff. You got my attention when you said people die five years after they retire. That is why Russ and I never retire. We keep pushing the inevitable later and later. This is so good. People set goals without the realization of what is the benefit. How is it going to benefit me in my life? You talked about that a little bit. Go ahead. This is extremely valuable stuff.
 Before you end, I want to focus on personal goals and corporate goals. We are leading a charity, church, or synagogue, so those are organizational goals. Very often, we don’t write personal goals. Then compare the two. Let me not interrupt you any more. This is really good stuff. They can comment. Russ, is your audio working yet? I don’t know if his audio is working yet. Are you there?
 Russell Dennis: I’m going to try. Can you hear me again?
 Hugh: Yes. Glad you’re here. Just know, Joe, that he is capturing sound bites in his brilliant way. He will have a chance to come back with questions. Russ, if it’s okay, we’ll let him finish his presentation part, and then I’d like to throw it to you for a few questions, if that works for you.
 Russell: That will work.
 Hugh: All right, Joe, go on.
 Joe: Those are called areas of management. Everybody has two main areas of management, which are the personal areas of management and your business areas of management. Each of those areas has to be aligned. You want to balance out your business area. What are the key elements in business that make you successful and set goals in those areas? What are the key elements you need for your personal life? Set goals in those areas. I used to think, I only need a business goal or a sales goal or a money goal. But I quickly learned I had to balance all those areas in business and personal.
 Going to the P in GPS, the P stands for purpose. It is your why. I can tell you about setting all these goals, but it doesn’t make a difference if you don’t have a why. The why is the gas in the tank of the car. It’s what makes things go. If I tell you, “Don’t touch the stove,” we would tell little kids not to touch the stove, the first thing they say is, “Why?” “Because it’s hot.” Maybe they don’t understand at first, but the moment they touch the stove, they quickly understand that it’s hot. That is the motivation, the why. Why don’t we run red lights? Why does everybody stop at a red light? Because you will get a ticket. That motivates us not to do it. We have to understand with anything we’re doing what’s our why. Why are we doing this? What feeling, reward, are we going to get from actually achieving that goal? That is going to be the motivation for us to act. If we don’t understand that why, we often don’t achieve the goal.
 One of the most average, normal goals that everyone wants to set is how to lose weight. The problem becomes a lot of times the why isn’t strong enough. The why isn’t more powerful than the ice cream sundae. Sometimes we have to do a deep dive within ourselves and figure out why we want it. Sometimes it’s not important enough to us. We’re okay with where we are. Sometimes people don’t go after that goal. We definitely want to build a strong why.
 The S is Steps or System. If you remember before there was GPS, everyone would pretty much have a map. We would get these maps from the gas station. How we would gauge if we took a trip to Winston-Salem, where I live, to Orlando, Florida, where Hugh is now, is we would look at the map and see the different cities along the way. I would see in an hour and a half I would be in Charlotte. Then I’ll be in Georgia. Then I’ll be in Jacksonville. Then I’ll be in Orlando. That was a way of us gauging we were going in the right direction. Sometimes when my GPS screws up and it sets me on the wrong road, it will reroute me back the right way. That happens to us sometimes, too, when we are doing goals. We start going the wrong direction, and we have to reroute ourselves to go back in the right direction.
 I’m saying all that to say if we have a goal to lose 30 pounds, we want to plan stops along the way. We want to say, “Okay, in one month I am going to lose ten pounds. Month two I am going to lose pounds. Month three I am going to lose ten pounds.” When we gauge or check, we know we are headed in the right direction. If we’re not, we know we need to do something different. We need to exercise more or diet more or whatever it is we need to do. But that is just a way of gauging if we are going in the right direction.
 The other thing is systems. A lot of times you don’t have to think of everything yourself. There are systems already in place created by other people that allow you to just plug and play. I am a big fan of systems. I listen to Dave Ramsay and use his budgeting system. There are different dieting systems. If you think about a company like McDonald’s, every Big Mac at every McDonald’s tastes the same way. That is because they have a system in place to make it the same no matter where you go. There are systems in every area of life that you can plug and play that will help you get the result you are looking for. Again, that goes back to that why. If you don’t have a strong enough why, you don’t move forward in the systems and actually do the things you are supposed to do.
 Questions, Russ?
 Russell: Good day. Thanks for joining us. Can you guys hear me okay?
 Hugh: We can.
 Russell: Excellent. I love the GPS. It’s really a good direction. We rely on these for our cars. We rely on them to keep us going the way that we’re going. It’s important to put the right information in the GPS, so the why is really critical. How long have you been using the GPS system, and what sort of success have you had with the people you work with in explaining this system? It certainly sounds like something that people, once they hear about it, get.
 Joe: I have been using it for five years. I use it a lot of times on projects. I have a lot of clients I work with. Some are celebrity clients. I am working on projects, whether they are movies, television shows, major real estate projects, or projects for hedge funds. Pretty much, even though they are all big strategic projects, some are small or some are up to ten million, the premise is till the same. There is a goal they want at the end: if it is a movie, to get the movie made; if it’s a TV show, to get the season filmed; if it is a real estate project, to raise the money in order to buy the land. It’s the same process, GPS. I have used that process with major clients to regular people.
 Russell: Do you find that people who work with this system enjoy using it? Whether the results they have gotten using the GPS system as opposed to what they have tried before.
 Joe: What I find is that people like things they can relate to something else. What helps us understand something is when we can say, “Okay, this is sort of like this.” When you can say, “Okay, I get it because I can think of a map and destinations and directions. It’s pretty simple.” The current project I am working on is for a large television show with a celebrity who has been on TV for years. We use the system for funding and getting the project done. We had great results and raised half a million dollars. I am using the system now with a former NBA player. He is raising five million dollars, and we have had great progress. We are still in the middle of it. I have used it for myself for years.
 I used it also on my kids. I don’t tell my kids what to do anymore because they are all in college, but I coached them. This is one of the things I coached them on. What are your goals? What type of grade do you want to get in this class? How many hours do you ned to put in? How much do you need to study? What do you need to study in? Things of that nature. I am working on my daughter now who is taking the bar. We are using GPS to get her prepared for the bar. Her goal is to pass the bar and start to practice law. So far, we are having great success with her as well.
 Russell: The thing with this system that makes it so beautiful is that it’s simple. But it can be deceptively simple because of the concept. Have you found people that stumble with it or just stumble grasping the simplicity of it and applying it to their goals?
 Joe: I think that goes back to that why piece. Most things to do with success are easy anyway. We all pretty much know what we need to do. If we need to lose weight, we know that we need to move more and eat less. What stops us from doing that is not having a strong enough why. You want something that you shouldn’t have more than you want the results that you want. I don’t think it’s so hard; I think the discipline comes into anything you want to achieve. Anything you really want, there is an element of discipline. I always think about people who pray but never take any action. There is a funny story I heard about a woman who wanted to win the lottery. She would get up every single morning for a year and say, “God, please let me win the lottery today. I hope I win that million dollars.” She kept doing it for a year. By the end of the time, He said, “Listen, lady, I need some help. At least buy a ticket.” Often that’s what I find a lot of people do. They don’t buy a ticket.
 Russell: When people come to you, they probably have gotten to know who you are. When people come to you, where do they typically find themselves? Is a typical person that comes to you someone who is already a high performance person, or do you get people who are stuck personally and professionally looking for solutions?
 Joe: I think a lot of people find me when they have vision confusion. They have a vision of something they want, but it’s almost like they don’t know how to get it. I do believe a good coach doesn’t really give you the answers, but a coach pulls the answers out of you that are already there but you just don’t believe that those are the answers. With anybody I work with, from celebrities to my kids, I find they all have the same similar issues. They know the answers; you just have to pull them out of them.
 Russell: Okay. I think people have an inherent genius and they get blocked. You talked about the word “belief.” I think that’s critical because I have had blockages. It’s really a matter of what I believe would actually happen. So when you meet a person and they are in that place and it is clear to you that the belief is the problem, how do you approach getting them on track? Seeing the possibilities when they are stuck?
 Joe: I think that there is something I use called the power of questions. Anytime there is something wrong, pray first. Then if you sit down with a piece of yellow paper and write the numbers 1-50, I say to write 50 ways to make this happen. Let’s look at the top three ways you come up with and read those top three ways every day. There is something, too, about the subconscious mind. That is when we go back to reading Think and Grow Rich. Normally I fall asleep with it playing on my audiobook, and I will wake up and play it again. Building that subconscious mind, that self-confidence, doing affirmations, redoing it every single day to build your confidence and faith in yourself, and then going back to those solutions that you know you should use and implement them. I was seeing something on Facebook the other day: Motivation gets you in the game; execution keeps you there.
 Russell: It is about executing. It is about taking action. For me, I have had to act my way out of these blockages more than anything else. Once you get somebody to believe, do you start on the small scale, or do you just say we are going to go into this at full speed? Do you start at a small scale and build small victories? Or does that approach vary from person to person?
 Joe: I think it varies from person to person because different people need different things. I have had celebrities that you would think would be much further ahead than the average person, and they really aren’t. Everybody has different strengths and weaknesses. Most people do a SWAT. What are your strengths and weaknesses? We talk about that. We need to look at if we need to strengthen the strengths or the weaknesses first. That is normally where the first place I start is.
 Are you the right person to be doing certain things? There are some things you maybe shouldn’t do. Maybe if you are bad at accounting or bad at money, instead of getting stronger at budgeting, maybe you need to bring in someone who is already strong at that, a CFO or something like that, to handle that particular issue. Everybody we deal with a little bit differently.
 Russell: Okay. I think it’s probably better to work from your strengths. Sometimes we can burn a lot of energy working on weaknesses. Do you find that that is a big part of the roadblock? Too much focus on the weakness.
 Joe: Most definitely. Recently, I was doing a lot of studying on how to do Wordpress to do my own website development. I felt myself spending so much time on that. I said, “You know what? The time I am spending on trying to learn this, I could have hired somebody and been doing something that actually matters that makes me money.” It’s not that it’s not important, and I like to be able to update it; I’ve got that part. Some of the design, it’s not a good use of my time to learn how to do all of that. I think we all have to look at what things we should remove from our day or remove that we don’t do.
 There’s something I call the time-money equation. Is this the time I’m spending off the money I will make doing the major things that I do? If it’s not, I don’t need to do it. That may be cleaning the house, cutting the grass, washing the car, whatever it is. The majority of our time needs to be spent on what h most important things for me to do to make progress.
 Russell: That’s a good way to measure. Does the time spent actually pay for itself? Does it pay for itself? Everybody has got a little bit of a different value. Do you tend to move people toward monitoring value? Is it personal core values? How do you help people prioritize that cost and that value, that time spent?
 Joe: I think there are different currencies. Sometimes we only speak of money as currency. Time is a currency. Health is a currency. So I think we have to look at what the most important currency is. Do you want to free up your time so you can work on the other areas that we talked about with your goals, keeping that system in balance? Now I am going to stop doing the things that I’m not good at. I’m going to outsource them. I am going to focus on freeing up the currency that is time so I can spend it with my family, friends, wife, or whomever, so I can achieve the goals in those other areas we talked about that are important. There are all kinds of currencies. I don’t want to think money is the only currency. Some people’s goals are not to make lots of money; they want to make enough money to be comfortable but to have enough time to spend with their family and enjoy life. There is a balance we all have to find.
 Russell: I believe that people just don’t have money for the sake of having money. What are the things that money are going to allow me to do? That might mean spending more time with family. That might mean vacationing. That might mean providing help or actually spending time working on a cause that is important to them. It’s a little bit different for everyone, I believe. As a group, I know you work with people from many different walks of life. Do you find that people who are what I call difference-makers—my friend Wendy Lipton-Dibner says they are people with the heart space. They are either faith-based or working with a charity. Do you mind that these folks are more conflicted than folks that work in the corporate area, or are the problems universal, regardless of the type of profession a person takes on?
 Joe: I think they’re universal. There may be the different currencies they are looking for. But I think it’s universal what they’re actually looking for. Some people in the heart space are looking to make a difference in as many lives as possible. Other people are looking to make money, and maybe they use that money to make a difference. It depends on the individual.
 Russell: How common is it when a person is sort of stuck professionally for it to be a personal heart space type of manner? Do you find that most of the blockages, regardless of what they are, can be traced to personal confusion or blockage?
 Joe: I think sometimes we want to repeat the same act but the show has moved on. What I mean by that is things change. When you look at commercials that have the ‘60s, ‘70s, ‘80s, and ‘90s, you will start to see a big change in fashion, but also the energy, how everybody looks. I think every ten years, the world changes. If you don’t change in that ten-year space with the world, you will often get left behind. Then you’re stuck because you’re still trying to use what worked in that ten years in this ten years. I look at some of the changes that are coming up, and I see a lot of people who are stuck.
 We have a system where they are doing self-driving trucks. In the next six years, they are probably going to get rid of 60-70% of truck drivers. We get self-driving cars. We have screens on restaurants that are going to be taking orders. If you are still trying to drive a truck, and 70% of the work is gone, then of course you are going to be stuck. I think what happens to people that we are not adapting.
 One of the blogs I am working on writing right now is what would happen if you got fired today? It’s one of the reasons I am really big on entrepreneurship and why I love working with entrepreneurs. There is not the job security that we used to have. So many jobs are going overseas, technology. I think that we have to adapt with the times. We have to always be growing. Going back to when we were talking about how when people don’t grow, they die. I think that there are a lot of people I come across who haven’t read a book since high school. They spend all their time either working or watching TV.
 Hugh: Russ, those are really good questions. I was going to encourage you to make them harder and harder. What Russ and I know to be true, and I have discovered this about Joe a while back, is that we in SynerVision—Russ is one of the WayFinders in SynerVision—reframe a consultant to be a WayFinder, but we also reframe strategies that aren’t working. I would want to know from Joe a couple of things. Russ, maybe you had a couple more and I interrupted you. I’m sorry if you do. But may I ask two right here?
 Russell: Go for it.
 Hugh: It’s piggybacking on what you are setting up so well. What are some of the things people do that are wrong that hurt them? What are some of the worst practices? You are giving us some best practices. What are some of the things that people should avoid doing? Russ, I will give it to you, and then you can take us out. We are in the last 15 minutes of the interview, so I will let you do a wrap, if you will.
 Joe: I would say number one is not being consistent. Sometimes you have the start/stop issue. They start something, they do it for a week or two, and they stop. If you start losing weight and working out, then you stop, of course your body will go back to where it was before, and then you are starting over. When they start over, they get discouraged or they can’t find that same why that actually motivated them the first time.
 The other thing is to listen to people who don’t have their best interest at heart. A lot of times, what happens is when you start to make progress in your life, that makes people around you who aren’t making progress uncomfortable. If you can do it, then they have to look at themselves and say, “Why aren’t I doing that?” It’s much easier to stomp on your dreams or tell you you shouldn’t be wasting your time losing weight than it is to actually do something themselves. I think that when we are starting to make change, we have to start to be friendly but not familiar. What I mean by that, even with family, sometimes we have to distance ourselves, or just show up at the Thanksgiving dinner but maybe in between that we don’t talk as much because we are working on our goals. We don’t need anything to taint that process or contaminate it. We need to stay focused on it and we need to stay consistent.
 Russell: Some people won’t lift you up. It’s hard to leave people behind. I think that’s kind of a common problem. If I change, I am going to start losing people. That becomes a personal challenge that creates an inner conflict. One of our running jokes that I have with Hugh is that when I am standing in a room and I look up and realize that I’m the smartest guy in there, I run like hell and find myself another room because there is that disconnect. I know the work you do has a way to build accountability as part of that system. Do you find that a lot of people make commitments to others they don’t make to themselves? In those instances, how do you help them work around that?
 Joe: I deal with that all the time. As a matter of fact, a coach is almost like a paid accountability partner. What I find a lot of people, and I’m guilty of this, too, is we will keep promises to others, but we won’t keep them to ourselves. When you don’t keep promises to yourself, that is actually what starts to kill your self-esteem and your confidence. Now you don’t have confidence in your own word. If you kept breaking promises to your kids, eventually they won’t believe what you say. If you do that to yourself on a constant basis, say I’m going to lose weight or I am going to make $10,000 and it doesn’t happen over a period of time, you actually lose confidence in yourself. Whether you feel it or not, it’s actually happening.
 What I believe you should do is either make a public declaration, like going on Facebook and saying I am going to do this by this time, because normally people will say something about it. Or you have an accountability partner who checks in with you once a week, and you tell them what you did toward your goal that week; maybe you do the same thing for them. Or you pay somebody to be accountable to. When I had a trainer, I felt like he was trying to kill me. I don’t know if he had life insurance on me or what was going on. He would ask me every single week, “Let me see your food journal. What did you eat?” That accountability does help.
 Russell: I have an accountability coach. Wonderful guy. Hugh knows him. He has become a very good friend: Ryan Roy. The name of his business is Justify or Just Do It. His reasons are results. I think there is a level of comfort that comes from finding a reason why something didn’t happen. Sometimes what we do doesn’t work, but do you find that you come across a lot of people that would rather be in that comfort zone than actually really looking at results? Is excuse-making something that happens frequently?
 Joe: I think we all do that at times. We make an excuse as a way of keeping ourselves comfortable, but it’s not getting us closer to our goals. I think that one of the reasons we have to measure constantly is when we measure something, there is no way we can deny that we are not getting results. The other thing is sometimes you have to come up with multiple ways of measuring.
 I go back to losing weight because it’s something we can all relate to. I know I want to do it. But I realize that sometimes I would work out super hard, eat right for a whole week, and I wouldn’t lose one single pound. What could happen is I would get discouraged, say this isn’t working, and go eat the ice cream sundae. Then I start realizing, You know what? Maybe what I have to do is measure inches, too. I have to take a tape measure and measure the inches in the areas I want to lose because maybe I’m not losing pounds but inches of fat. Or maybe I’m gaining muscle. One of the things to prevent being discouraged or getting in the zone like feeling something isn’t working is we have to find multiple ways to measure if we are making progress. There are multiple ways to see the growth.
 Russell: One of the things that Ryan has said to me is it took me a while to wrap my mind around the idea of celebrating small things. It doesn’t matter how small. It’s celebrate. That’s what I like about your GPS system because you are talking about pulling things apart. That’s what we try to advocate. Pull things apart. Take the larger goal. Pull it apart. Get smaller, more manageable. These little things add up to success. You get momentum. What are some of the ways that you help people build that momentum so that they are actually moving forward and are looking at things that can be measured?
 Joe: I think that any time you start a goal, you need a springboard. You need a way to have at least a small succession in a short period of time so the motivation stays high for you to continue. I go back to losing weight. It may be that you have a week where there is a cleanse or a fast. It’s a little simpler to do, and it gets off three to four pounds. All of a sudden, you kickstart everything. When I am teaching real estate, I give my students a kickstart course, which is a simple course with four to five simple instructions that allows you to go out and see progress instantly so you are motivated to continue.
 Russell: That’s it. Sometimes it’s hard. We have to look back. That’s the beauty and importance of making instant win. When somebody hasn’t been doing things, they start working with you and they’re not stuck, but you go a week and they are just on fire. You talk to them a few days or a week later, and they don’t just have a list, they start off with a list of three things. The next time you talk to them they have War and Peace in front of them. How do you help them manage that process? Does it go from one thing to the extreme to the other? They’re enthusiastic; you don’t want to dampen that. But how do you reel that in as it were to keep somebody from overextending themselves?
 Joe: That’s the catch. When we were first talking about GPS, we talked about setting goals in multiple areas of your life. They have to crash sometimes. Something happens in the personal life because you didn’t set a goal in that area. All of a sudden, you can’t focus on the business life. Or something is happening physically because you didn’t set goals in that area. That is why those crashes come up. If you align, that doesn’t happen as often.
 What I mean by that is if you think about a lot of pro athletes who didn’t study finance, all of a sudden they get a contract with millions of dollars. Life starts to go fast, and now you see all those other issues. They didn’t focus on their spirituality, so issues come up. They didn’t focus on learning their financial piece about money, so now they start having money problems. When they leave the NBA or NFL, they’re broke. They didn’t align everything, so when life starts to go fast, a crash happens.
 We have to balance out all those areas in our life and set goals in those individual areas from financial to physical to spiritual to family to spouse to home to auto. When I have my system in place, I have home, auto, style, fashion, everything because there has to be a balance in there that all of these things are important to my life. If I neglect them, there will be a consequence at some point in time. That’s the crash: the consequences from not actually balancing everything out. It’s simple, but it’s complicated. It’s simple because all you have to do is sit down with a piece of paper and say, “What do I want in my physical life? What do I want my health to be like? What do I want my relationship with my creator to be like? What do I want my relationship to be like with my kids? Am I once a week going to take my kids on a date?” Sometimes couples do date night; what about your kids? Have a date night with your kids where you are going to take two hours once a week to spend with each kid because you are going to have two to three kids and not know them as individuals. You have to have that individual time as well. Or what about your spouse? After being in a relationship for so many years, you start to be more like roommates than lovers. There is no romance. That’s because you didn’t set a goal for that to happen. You didn’t focus on that, so it didn’t come to fruition.
 I saw Hugh on his birthday, and he was out on a date with his wife at a concert. Go, Hugh! That’s GPS in the works. It worked. Keeping the juices going.
 Russell: I’m just wondering if he said to her, “Honey, you should probably drive because I’ve had a little bit. Because of my age and mental condition, I’ve forgotten my way to the theater.” She probably said, “Turn on the GPS.”
 Joe: That’s probably exactly what happened.
 Hugh: My wife taught me harassment is a form of affection. I’m getting some of that now.
 Russell: I only torture people I love. Speaking of people that we love… What happened to me is I said I was going to do some things. Your family may hear some of these grand ideas and schemes and go, “Ah yeah, there he goes again.” There could be a little skepticism from those who are close to us. It’s easy for a bachelor like me, but if you get somebody that is married and they have a family, sometimes that natural resistance that we have within ourselves, it comes from people around us. What are some ways you help people address that? That is very real. There is a lot of pressure with children, spouse, and other obligations.
 Joe: I believe every new ideal is born drowning. When you first come up with something in the first few minutes, the moment that you come up with it, it’s best not to share it. It’s better to fully develop it. Someone could say something negative, and it automatically starts to kill that dream because you haven’t fully completed a vision. If you are going to share that idea, don’t share it with anybody who is going to say something negative right away. Go to your support system. Go to your mastermind. Go to the people who are going to tell you how to make it happen, not the people who are going to tell you what could happen if you start to move in that way. I always believe if I come up with a great idea, I don’t even want to share it. If I come up with a new book idea, there are certain people I am not going to share it with, except for a Hugh or a Russ who are going to say, “Joe, you should do this with that,” and they start pouring into that idea, breathing life into it, giving me positive feedback.
 Russell: That’s important. Use the support systems that are available and keep it moving. Hugh?
 Hugh: I have a contrasting perspective on that. Sorry there are people being loud around me. My A of SMART goals is accountable. I find there is power in sharing it. I find motivation in like you said, Joe, when you write a goal and people go, “Let me connect you with some people. I can help you with that.” That is one powerful way of motivating ourselves with our goals, by sharing it. Another one is what Russ brought up, sharing it and people go, “You’re going to do what?” I call that motivation. Watch me! There is a twist on that piece. I think you can win.
 We are coming up to our last five minutes here. Russ, do you have any more questions? Or do you want to let Joe do a final tip or piece of advice for people?
 Russell: There is a lot. I could spend all day asking questions. But I would really love for Joe to put a nice bow on it and talk to people because they face all of these doubts. As I said before, their system is deceptively simple in the concept of its intent. Taking that initial step, taking that initial step no matter how overwhelmed you are. I would love to have you talk to people about how they can do that, how they can fight that fear and move through that.
 Joe: Going through the system like you said is really simple. Figure out what you want in your goal. Hugh spoke briefly about SMART goals. You could easily, and I’ll be happy to put a link up to a SMART goal sheet people can use. SMART goals is that the goal should be specific, measurable- What is the A, Hugh? I forgot.
 Hugh: Accountable.
 Joe: He said it before. Accountable. The goal should be realistic and time-sensitive. I will put up some SMART goal sheets on my website that you can use when setting your goals. I like to keep things simple, and that is why I came up with GPS. Know your goal, know why you want that goal, and know the steps to getting there. Simple steps. If it’s five steps or ten steps, whatever the steps are. One of my goals is to help 100 people make $10,000 in real estate investing. To anyone who is on the actual podcast, if they will go to drjoewhite.com/freegift, I am going to put up the SMART goal sheets. I will give them a book on actual goal setting, and I will give them my free real estate kickstart course. That is quite a bit of stuff. Drjoewhite.com/freegift. They can have all of that stuff if they go there.
 Russell: I put that link up in the chat. That’s great stuff. That’s wonderful.
 Hugh: We’ll make sure that link is in the notes for the podcast and on the page for the Nonprofit Exchange at thenonprofitexchange.org. We will put those links on that page.
 Russell: Yeah, I’ve got it in the chat here. This is wonderful stuff, Joe. I love your system. I am going to go have a look at that. Love to talk to you a little bit further.
 Joe: Most definitely, Russ. I am here to help anybody I can. I enjoy helping. I think service is super important. I want to serve and be a servant and help in any way I possibly can. We all have some things we want to achieve. We all want to be better. I would just say to everybody that now is the time. If not now, when? That is what I always ask people.
 Russell: Now is the time. Hugh?
 Hugh: Time is now. The time is now. Russ, those were really good questions. Joe, I teach goals, but like I said earlier in the broadcast, Joe did this module in my workshop in Raleigh. He did a better job than I do teaching my modules. I wanted to have him here to do that. When Russ does a module, he does a better job than me. One way I look really good is surround yourself better than you are, which is what Russ talked about earlier. Joe, thank you so much for being a guest today. Russ, thank you for being my co-host in this and crafting such great questions. Joe, we will put your information on the podcast and on the site. Thank you for the offer and the free gift for people.
 Joe: Thank you, Hugh. Have a great trip and a great time in Florida.
 Hugh: I’m loving it. Thank you.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Dr. Joe White</strong> is a nationally know, Author, speaker and business consultant. Joe has a true entrepreneurial spirit and it has allowed him to join the ranks of those entrepreneurs who can boast that they have never worked a 9 to 5 job throughout their adult life. His professional experience has quite varied Dr. White has sharpened his skills in several capacities. From serving as CEO and COO of million dollar companies, to speaking on stages across the country.</p> <p>In 2001 he started a real estate investment company buying and selling houses through out North Carolina. In 2005 he took to the stages across the country selling his Real Estate Course “How to Make 5,000 to 10,000 a month wholesaling real estate”. The course taught the successful strategies he learned and developed on buying and selling properties with little to no money down while running his company. During the 2005 lecture tour, he was asked to be the keynote speaker at the 2005 graduation of the Breakthrough Bible College in Temple Hills, Maryland. Where he was bestowed with an honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters during the graduation.</p> <p>Sault after for his advise and insight by business start ups, celebrates and large corporations. For over 20 years he has served the entrepreneur community. Launching events like The Triad Entrepreneur Pitch Tank the number one business event in the Triad area of NC, serving on boards such as Benaiah Holdings Group a OTC publicly traded venture capital firm and serving as the NC reparative for CEO Space International, the business conference ranked #1 in the world by Forbes and Inc. magazine as” the conference entrepreneurs can’t afford to miss.</p> <p>Dr. White is also the co-author of The Best selling book Concrete Jungle Success Strategies for the Real World, which also features best selling author and star of the movie The Secret Bob Proctor. Dr. Joe White is currently avalible for business consulting, real estate investing coaching and speaking engagements nationally and internationally. With topics ranging from Business Strategy, Goal Setting, Real estate Investing and Entrepreneurship.</p> <p>To Book Dr. Joe White or get more information email <a href="mailto:admin@drjoewhite.com">admin@drjoewhite.com</a> or visit <a href="http://www.drjoewhite.com/">www.drjoewhite.com</a></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Here's the Transcript of the Interview</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome, everybody. The Nonprofit Exchange is about goals today. I am attending a conference and have a little bit of noise in the background. While our guest today, Joe White, is speaking, I will be muting myself so there is no noise in the background. I have known Dr. Joe White for a number of years. He is an expert in real estate. He is also an expert in leadership and goal-setting, among other things. About a year or so ago, I asked him to participate in my Nonprofit Leadership Empowerment Symposium and teach the module on goal-setting. He was so good it was better than me doing it. I invited him to come on the Nonprofit Exchange and talk about goal-setting. Joe, we have shared one of your books, the anthology, but I believe you have a book that is more about goals. Feel free to talk about that book. Joe White, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Thank you, Hugh. It is good to se you again.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have our co-host Russell Dennis who is having some technical issues, but he will be on here to ask you some really hard questions later. He is streaming it live to Facebook. Dr. White, would you tell us about yourself, especially your background working with leaders and setting goals?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Hugh, one of the things I always tell people that is unique about me is I am a person who has never had a job in my adult life. In not having a job or set occupation or set system, I pretty much had to figure out goals and systems and things like that at a very early age. What made me make that decision was when I had my first kid. I was thinking to myself without an college education, What can I do to mak sure my first daughter had the type of life I felt like she deserved? I knew entrepreneurship and business would be what I needed to do. I quickly started reading. I still to this day go through about four books a week. I study everything from business to entrepreneurship to real estate to religion to spirituality. I use all of that information and put it into different systems I use to help myself and my clients. I have been doing that since the age of 16, 17. I always had some way of making income that I would create myself just basically out of my head. I did real estate for a number of years. I took every course you could probably think of, every boot camp, workshop. Quickly made a million dollars in real estate. Switched from real estate to mental health for a while. Then I started doing speaking, consulting, and things like that, working with clients around the world, helping them be better in the areas of entrepreneurship and real estate investment.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s more than I had previously known about you.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> It’s something a little different.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. That is why I invited you on today so we could learn some more about these different areas of expertise. Let’s talk about this topic of goals. Everybody writes goals. Very few people accomplish goals. I wanted to hone in on this particular piece because I have seen you teach this before. Why have you gravitated to this as one of the topics that you teach?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I think that one of the things I feel like I am known for is making things simple for entrepreneurs and businesspeople because every business has its own language. If you were to go to Spain or Mexico and you didn’t speak Spanish, you couldn’t get a lot accomplished. What I try to do is make things simple. One of the first steps I think everybody needs to learn is how to set proper goals: the foundation of which everything in your business and your life is built upon. I feel like that was the best place to start. I read <em>Think and Grow Rich</em> when I was 14 years old. I have been setting goals ever since. I always learn something new. I am constantly studying. It is not like I learned about goals then and I stopped. I constantly study it. What I did was simplified the major techniques of goal-setting so that the average person could understand.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I have seen you present a short lesson on this. Are you prepared to give us Joe White’s overview of setting and achieving goals?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I am.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Well, I am going to be all ears. I am going to listen for a little bit. Russell has been known to take notes and come back with a really hard question, so be prepared.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I’m ready for you, Russ.</p> <p>So Hugh, what I will tell you is the system that I use for goal-setting, I call GPS. Just like you have a GPS in your car or on your phone, the purpose of the GPS is to guide you from one point to the destination you are looking to go to. I feel like GPS was the appropriate title for what I consider to be my goal-setting system. That stands for when I do that. When I say GPS, in this particular case, GPS stands for Goals, Purpose, Steps. Sometimes I interchange “system” with “steps” because sometimes we go through the steps, and sometimes we put a system in place in order to get what we actually need to get.</p> <p>What is a goal? It’s something you want to achieve in your life, in your business, in your personal life, or wherever it is. Most people die within five years after retiring. The reason why they die is because if we are not growing, we are dying. If you lose your purpose for life, what I am saying is you are probably going to die shortly after. Now, some people, if they retire, they will switch to something else, whether it’s taking care of their grandkids or going to another part-time job. But if we are not constantly working toward something, it’s like there is no reason to live. Goals are that important to our life. What we focus on is what we get. That is why it’s important to find things that we have to focus on for achievement.</p> <p>What really makes us happy—and it’s hard to define happiness—is seeing progress. Something about progress in human beings makes us happy or feel fulfilled. If you think about it, why I say that, I’ll give you an example. When we are growing up, most of the time in the house where we live, our mom would mark with a marker over your head how tall you were. You just couldn’t wait every month to see if you had grown. I used to be that small, and now I’m this tall. I was three feet, and now I’m four feet. We would get happy or excited to see that we had grown an inch or two inches and see how tall we got. That was progression. That was a way of measuring progression. We didn’t understand that was almost like goals because a lot of people will say, “I can’t wait to get as tall as Dad or my brother.” We were really setting goals. We were using the notches on the door or on the wall as a way of measuring that and showing progression. That is basically what I’m talking about when I’m talking about GPS. Let’s set a goal. Let’s measure the goal. Let’s put a system in place for getting that goal and knowing if we are on track or off track.</p> <p>The other thing that I love to tell people about is what’s called goal alignment. This is what I really talked a lot about, Hugh, at your event. Most people understand the basics of goals. What they don’t understand is there has to be a balance to goals. You just can’t have a goal to make a million dollars and not have other goals. I will give you some examples and tell you what I’m talking about. I set goals in every major area of my life. Just like a car has to be aligned, if you drive a car and the car is not aligned, when you start to go fast, the car will start to shake. If you go off the road, you could crash. Something bad could happen because you are going fast and you haven’t aligned the car. The same thing happens in our life when we don’t align our goals.</p> <p>You have to set goals in all the major areas of your life, not just in the financial area or the weight loss area. You have to set goals in your physical area. The reason why that is important, and I will give you examples on how goal alignment works in each of those areas, is if I don’t set a physical goal to exercise and take care of my health and go to the doctor and get checkups, if I am working on these financial goals and my business goals, and I get sick or have a heart attack or something else, all of those goals now crash. Then my #1 focus will have to be on my health, so I have to have health goals.</p> <p>In my spiritual life, I have to have spiritual goals because a lot of times that is where fulfillment comes in, that is where balance comes in.</p> <p>My family life: if I don’t take care of my kids, there are so many people who are wealthy who have problems with their kids where their kids are on drugs or whatever is happening. The kids are getting in trouble. When that comes up, now you have to take your focus off the business and money and build those kids. They are in trouble because you didn’t make taking care of your kids or teaching your kids part of your goals.</p> <p>Part of my goals are physical and spiritual and family and friends. I don’t know about you, but I know we have all had a situation with a friend where we say, “I really need to call this person,” and then something happens. The friend passes, God forbid, and you feel really bad because you feel like you didn’t call that friend or family member before they passed. We have to have goals in the friend area.</p> <p>We have to have goals in the spouse area. How many people do you know who have been successful in business, and then they get a divorce and lose it all or lose half or lose the focus? Now later on they are regretting it, “I am enjoying the money, but I wish I had a better relationship with my wife or my kids.” There has to be goals in every single area of your life.</p> <p>You have to look at where these different areas are, where these different roles and responsibilities lie. I am a father, I am a son, and I am a business owner. You have to set goals for each of those. If you don’t, what happens is you are going to have a crash in another area that will take away from you achieving those goals. That is what goal alignment is, and that is why that balance is super important. A lot of people don’t think about that when they think about goals.</p> <p>The next thing is the P. Do you have a question, Hugh?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is good stuff. You got my attention when you said people die five years after they retire. That is why Russ and I never retire. We keep pushing the inevitable later and later. This is so good. People set goals without the realization of what is the benefit. How is it going to benefit me in my life? You talked about that a little bit. Go ahead. This is extremely valuable stuff.</p> <p>Before you end, I want to focus on personal goals and corporate goals. We are leading a charity, church, or synagogue, so those are organizational goals. Very often, we don’t write personal goals. Then compare the two. Let me not interrupt you any more. This is really good stuff. They can comment. Russ, is your audio working yet? I don’t know if his audio is working yet. Are you there?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> I’m going to try. Can you hear me again?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes. Glad you’re here. Just know, Joe, that he is capturing sound bites in his brilliant way. He will have a chance to come back with questions. Russ, if it’s okay, we’ll let him finish his presentation part, and then I’d like to throw it to you for a few questions, if that works for you.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That will work.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> All right, Joe, go on.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Those are called areas of management. Everybody has two main areas of management, which are the personal areas of management and your business areas of management. Each of those areas has to be aligned. You want to balance out your business area. What are the key elements in business that make you successful and set goals in those areas? What are the key elements you need for your personal life? Set goals in those areas. I used to think, I only need a business goal or a sales goal or a money goal. But I quickly learned I had to balance all those areas in business and personal.</p> <p>Going to the P in GPS, the P stands for purpose. It is your why. I can tell you about setting all these goals, but it doesn’t make a difference if you don’t have a why. The why is the gas in the tank of the car. It’s what makes things go. If I tell you, “Don’t touch the stove,” we would tell little kids not to touch the stove, the first thing they say is, “Why?” “Because it’s hot.” Maybe they don’t understand at first, but the moment they touch the stove, they quickly understand that it’s hot. That is the motivation, the why. Why don’t we run red lights? Why does everybody stop at a red light? Because you will get a ticket. That motivates us not to do it. We have to understand with anything we’re doing what’s our why. Why are we doing this? What feeling, reward, are we going to get from actually achieving that goal? That is going to be the motivation for us to act. If we don’t understand that why, we often don’t achieve the goal.</p> <p>One of the most average, normal goals that everyone wants to set is how to lose weight. The problem becomes a lot of times the why isn’t strong enough. The why isn’t more powerful than the ice cream sundae. Sometimes we have to do a deep dive within ourselves and figure out why we want it. Sometimes it’s not important enough to us. We’re okay with where we are. Sometimes people don’t go after that goal. We definitely want to build a strong why.</p> <p>The S is Steps or System. If you remember before there was GPS, everyone would pretty much have a map. We would get these maps from the gas station. How we would gauge if we took a trip to Winston-Salem, where I live, to Orlando, Florida, where Hugh is now, is we would look at the map and see the different cities along the way. I would see in an hour and a half I would be in Charlotte. Then I’ll be in Georgia. Then I’ll be in Jacksonville. Then I’ll be in Orlando. That was a way of us gauging we were going in the right direction. Sometimes when my GPS screws up and it sets me on the wrong road, it will reroute me back the right way. That happens to us sometimes, too, when we are doing goals. We start going the wrong direction, and we have to reroute ourselves to go back in the right direction.</p> <p>I’m saying all that to say if we have a goal to lose 30 pounds, we want to plan stops along the way. We want to say, “Okay, in one month I am going to lose ten pounds. Month two I am going to lose pounds. Month three I am going to lose ten pounds.” When we gauge or check, we know we are headed in the right direction. If we’re not, we know we need to do something different. We need to exercise more or diet more or whatever it is we need to do. But that is just a way of gauging if we are going in the right direction.</p> <p>The other thing is systems. A lot of times you don’t have to think of everything yourself. There are systems already in place created by other people that allow you to just plug and play. I am a big fan of systems. I listen to Dave Ramsay and use his budgeting system. There are different dieting systems. If you think about a company like McDonald’s, every Big Mac at every McDonald’s tastes the same way. That is because they have a system in place to make it the same no matter where you go. There are systems in every area of life that you can plug and play that will help you get the result you are looking for. Again, that goes back to that why. If you don’t have a strong enough why, you don’t move forward in the systems and actually do the things you are supposed to do.</p> <p>Questions, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Good day. Thanks for joining us. Can you guys hear me okay?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We can.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Excellent. I love the GPS. It’s really a good direction. We rely on these for our cars. We rely on them to keep us going the way that we’re going. It’s important to put the right information in the GPS, so the why is really critical. How long have you been using the GPS system, and what sort of success have you had with the people you work with in explaining this system? It certainly sounds like something that people, once they hear about it, get.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I have been using it for five years. I use it a lot of times on projects. I have a lot of clients I work with. Some are celebrity clients. I am working on projects, whether they are movies, television shows, major real estate projects, or projects for hedge funds. Pretty much, even though they are all big strategic projects, some are small or some are up to ten million, the premise is till the same. There is a goal they want at the end: if it is a movie, to get the movie made; if it’s a TV show, to get the season filmed; if it is a real estate project, to raise the money in order to buy the land. It’s the same process, GPS. I have used that process with major clients to regular people.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Do you find that people who work with this system enjoy using it? Whether the results they have gotten using the GPS system as opposed to what they have tried before.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> What I find is that people like things they can relate to something else. What helps us understand something is when we can say, “Okay, this is sort of like this.” When you can say, “Okay, I get it because I can think of a map and destinations and directions. It’s pretty simple.” The current project I am working on is for a large television show with a celebrity who has been on TV for years. We use the system for funding and getting the project done. We had great results and raised half a million dollars. I am using the system now with a former NBA player. He is raising five million dollars, and we have had great progress. We are still in the middle of it. I have used it for myself for years.</p> <p>I used it also on my kids. I don’t tell my kids what to do anymore because they are all in college, but I coached them. This is one of the things I coached them on. What are your goals? What type of grade do you want to get in this class? How many hours do you ned to put in? How much do you need to study? What do you need to study in? Things of that nature. I am working on my daughter now who is taking the bar. We are using GPS to get her prepared for the bar. Her goal is to pass the bar and start to practice law. So far, we are having great success with her as well.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The thing with this system that makes it so beautiful is that it’s simple. But it can be deceptively simple because of the concept. Have you found people that stumble with it or just stumble grasping the simplicity of it and applying it to their goals?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I think that goes back to that why piece. Most things to do with success are easy anyway. We all pretty much know what we need to do. If we need to lose weight, we know that we need to move more and eat less. What stops us from doing that is not having a strong enough why. You want something that you shouldn’t have more than you want the results that you want. I don’t think it’s so hard; I think the discipline comes into anything you want to achieve. Anything you really want, there is an element of discipline. I always think about people who pray but never take any action. There is a funny story I heard about a woman who wanted to win the lottery. She would get up every single morning for a year and say, “God, please let me win the lottery today. I hope I win that million dollars.” She kept doing it for a year. By the end of the time, He said, “Listen, lady, I need some help. At least buy a ticket.” Often that’s what I find a lot of people do. They don’t buy a ticket.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> When people come to you, they probably have gotten to know who you are. When people come to you, where do they typically find themselves? Is a typical person that comes to you someone who is already a high performance person, or do you get people who are stuck personally and professionally looking for solutions?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I think a lot of people find me when they have vision confusion. They have a vision of something they want, but it’s almost like they don’t know how to get it. I do believe a good coach doesn’t really give you the answers, but a coach pulls the answers out of you that are already there but you just don’t believe that those are the answers. With anybody I work with, from celebrities to my kids, I find they all have the same similar issues. They know the answers; you just have to pull them out of them.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Okay. I think people have an inherent genius and they get blocked. You talked about the word “belief.” I think that’s critical because I have had blockages. It’s really a matter of what I believe would actually happen. So when you meet a person and they are in that place and it is clear to you that the belief is the problem, how do you approach getting them on track? Seeing the possibilities when they are stuck?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I think that there is something I use called the power of questions. Anytime there is something wrong, pray first. Then if you sit down with a piece of yellow paper and write the numbers 1-50, I say to write 50 ways to make this happen. Let’s look at the top three ways you come up with and read those top three ways every day. There is something, too, about the subconscious mind. That is when we go back to reading <em>Think and Grow Rich.</em> Normally I fall asleep with it playing on my audiobook, and I will wake up and play it again. Building that subconscious mind, that self-confidence, doing affirmations, redoing it every single day to build your confidence and faith in yourself, and then going back to those solutions that you know you should use and implement them. I was seeing something on Facebook the other day: Motivation gets you in the game; execution keeps you there.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It is about executing. It is about taking action. For me, I have had to act my way out of these blockages more than anything else. Once you get somebody to believe, do you start on the small scale, or do you just say we are going to go into this at full speed? Do you start at a small scale and build small victories? Or does that approach vary from person to person?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I think it varies from person to person because different people need different things. I have had celebrities that you would think would be much further ahead than the average person, and they really aren’t. Everybody has different strengths and weaknesses. Most people do a SWAT. What are your strengths and weaknesses? We talk about that. We need to look at if we need to strengthen the strengths or the weaknesses first. That is normally where the first place I start is.</p> <p>Are you the right person to be doing certain things? There are some things you maybe shouldn’t do. Maybe if you are bad at accounting or bad at money, instead of getting stronger at budgeting, maybe you need to bring in someone who is already strong at that, a CFO or something like that, to handle that particular issue. Everybody we deal with a little bit differently.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Okay. I think it’s probably better to work from your strengths. Sometimes we can burn a lot of energy working on weaknesses. Do you find that that is a big part of the roadblock? Too much focus on the weakness.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Most definitely. Recently, I was doing a lot of studying on how to do Wordpress to do my own website development. I felt myself spending so much time on that. I said, “You know what? The time I am spending on trying to learn this, I could have hired somebody and been doing something that actually matters that makes me money.” It’s not that it’s not important, and I like to be able to update it; I’ve got that part. Some of the design, it’s not a good use of my time to learn how to do all of that. I think we all have to look at what things we should remove from our day or remove that we don’t do.</p> <p>There’s something I call the time-money equation. Is this the time I’m spending off the money I will make doing the major things that I do? If it’s not, I don’t need to do it. That may be cleaning the house, cutting the grass, washing the car, whatever it is. The majority of our time needs to be spent on what h most important things for me to do to make progress.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s a good way to measure. Does the time spent actually pay for itself? Does it pay for itself? Everybody has got a little bit of a different value. Do you tend to move people toward monitoring value? Is it personal core values? How do you help people prioritize that cost and that value, that time spent?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I think there are different currencies. Sometimes we only speak of money as currency. Time is a currency. Health is a currency. So I think we have to look at what the most important currency is. Do you want to free up your time so you can work on the other areas that we talked about with your goals, keeping that system in balance? Now I am going to stop doing the things that I’m not good at. I’m going to outsource them. I am going to focus on freeing up the currency that is time so I can spend it with my family, friends, wife, or whomever, so I can achieve the goals in those other areas we talked about that are important. There are all kinds of currencies. I don’t want to think money is the only currency. Some people’s goals are not to make lots of money; they want to make enough money to be comfortable but to have enough time to spend with their family and enjoy life. There is a balance we all have to find.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I believe that people just don’t have money for the sake of having money. What are the things that money are going to allow me to do? That might mean spending more time with family. That might mean vacationing. That might mean providing help or actually spending time working on a cause that is important to them. It’s a little bit different for everyone, I believe. As a group, I know you work with people from many different walks of life. Do you find that people who are what I call difference-makers—my friend Wendy Lipton-Dibner says they are people with the heart space. They are either faith-based or working with a charity. Do you mind that these folks are more conflicted than folks that work in the corporate area, or are the problems universal, regardless of the type of profession a person takes on?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I think they’re universal. There may be the different currencies they are looking for. But I think it’s universal what they’re actually looking for. Some people in the heart space are looking to make a difference in as many lives as possible. Other people are looking to make money, and maybe they use that money to make a difference. It depends on the individual.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> How common is it when a person is sort of stuck professionally for it to be a personal heart space type of manner? Do you find that most of the blockages, regardless of what they are, can be traced to personal confusion or blockage?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I think sometimes we want to repeat the same act but the show has moved on. What I mean by that is things change. When you look at commercials that have the ‘60s, ‘70s, ‘80s, and ‘90s, you will start to see a big change in fashion, but also the energy, how everybody looks. I think every ten years, the world changes. If you don’t change in that ten-year space with the world, you will often get left behind. Then you’re stuck because you’re still trying to use what worked in that ten years in this ten years. I look at some of the changes that are coming up, and I see a lot of people who are stuck.</p> <p>We have a system where they are doing self-driving trucks. In the next six years, they are probably going to get rid of 60-70% of truck drivers. We get self-driving cars. We have screens on restaurants that are going to be taking orders. If you are still trying to drive a truck, and 70% of the work is gone, then of course you are going to be stuck. I think what happens to people that we are not adapting.</p> <p>One of the blogs I am working on writing right now is what would happen if you got fired today? It’s one of the reasons I am really big on entrepreneurship and why I love working with entrepreneurs. There is not the job security that we used to have. So many jobs are going overseas, technology. I think that we have to adapt with the times. We have to always be growing. Going back to when we were talking about how when people don’t grow, they die. I think that there are a lot of people I come across who haven’t read a book since high school. They spend all their time either working or watching TV.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, those are really good questions. I was going to encourage you to make them harder and harder. What Russ and I know to be true, and I have discovered this about Joe a while back, is that we in SynerVision—Russ is one of the WayFinders in SynerVision—reframe a consultant to be a WayFinder, but we also reframe strategies that aren’t working. I would want to know from Joe a couple of things. Russ, maybe you had a couple more and I interrupted you. I’m sorry if you do. But may I ask two right here?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Go for it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s piggybacking on what you are setting up so well. What are some of the things people do that are wrong that hurt them? What are some of the worst practices? You are giving us some best practices. What are some of the things that people should avoid doing? Russ, I will give it to you, and then you can take us out. We are in the last 15 minutes of the interview, so I will let you do a wrap, if you will.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I would say number one is not being consistent. Sometimes you have the start/stop issue. They start something, they do it for a week or two, and they stop. If you start losing weight and working out, then you stop, of course your body will go back to where it was before, and then you are starting over. When they start over, they get discouraged or they can’t find that same why that actually motivated them the first time.</p> <p>The other thing is to listen to people who don’t have their best interest at heart. A lot of times, what happens is when you start to make progress in your life, that makes people around you who aren’t making progress uncomfortable. If you can do it, then they have to look at themselves and say, “Why aren’t I doing that?” It’s much easier to stomp on your dreams or tell you you shouldn’t be wasting your time losing weight than it is to actually do something themselves. I think that when we are starting to make change, we have to start to be friendly but not familiar. What I mean by that, even with family, sometimes we have to distance ourselves, or just show up at the Thanksgiving dinner but maybe in between that we don’t talk as much because we are working on our goals. We don’t need anything to taint that process or contaminate it. We need to stay focused on it and we need to stay consistent.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Some people won’t lift you up. It’s hard to leave people behind. I think that’s kind of a common problem. If I change, I am going to start losing people. That becomes a personal challenge that creates an inner conflict. One of our running jokes that I have with Hugh is that when I am standing in a room and I look up and realize that I’m the smartest guy in there, I run like hell and find myself another room because there is that disconnect. I know the work you do has a way to build accountability as part of that system. Do you find that a lot of people make commitments to others they don’t make to themselves? In those instances, how do you help them work around that?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I deal with that all the time. As a matter of fact, a coach is almost like a paid accountability partner. What I find a lot of people, and I’m guilty of this, too, is we will keep promises to others, but we won’t keep them to ourselves. When you don’t keep promises to yourself, that is actually what starts to kill your self-esteem and your confidence. Now you don’t have confidence in your own word. If you kept breaking promises to your kids, eventually they won’t believe what you say. If you do that to yourself on a constant basis, say I’m going to lose weight or I am going to make $10,000 and it doesn’t happen over a period of time, you actually lose confidence in yourself. Whether you feel it or not, it’s actually happening.</p> <p>What I believe you should do is either make a public declaration, like going on Facebook and saying I am going to do this by this time, because normally people will say something about it. Or you have an accountability partner who checks in with you once a week, and you tell them what you did toward your goal that week; maybe you do the same thing for them. Or you pay somebody to be accountable to. When I had a trainer, I felt like he was trying to kill me. I don’t know if he had life insurance on me or what was going on. He would ask me every single week, “Let me see your food journal. What did you eat?” That accountability does help.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I have an accountability coach. Wonderful guy. Hugh knows him. He has become a very good friend: Ryan Roy. The name of his business is Justify or Just Do It. His reasons are results. I think there is a level of comfort that comes from finding a reason why something didn’t happen. Sometimes what we do doesn’t work, but do you find that you come across a lot of people that would rather be in that comfort zone than actually really looking at results? Is excuse-making something that happens frequently?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I think we all do that at times. We make an excuse as a way of keeping ourselves comfortable, but it’s not getting us closer to our goals. I think that one of the reasons we have to measure constantly is when we measure something, there is no way we can deny that we are not getting results. The other thing is sometimes you have to come up with multiple ways of measuring.</p> <p>I go back to losing weight because it’s something we can all relate to. I know I want to do it. But I realize that sometimes I would work out super hard, eat right for a whole week, and I wouldn’t lose one single pound. What could happen is I would get discouraged, say this isn’t working, and go eat the ice cream sundae. Then I start realizing, You know what? Maybe what I have to do is measure inches, too. I have to take a tape measure and measure the inches in the areas I want to lose because maybe I’m not losing pounds but inches of fat. Or maybe I’m gaining muscle. One of the things to prevent being discouraged or getting in the zone like feeling something isn’t working is we have to find multiple ways to measure if we are making progress. There are multiple ways to see the growth.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> One of the things that Ryan has said to me is it took me a while to wrap my mind around the idea of celebrating small things. It doesn’t matter how small. It’s celebrate. That’s what I like about your GPS system because you are talking about pulling things apart. That’s what we try to advocate. Pull things apart. Take the larger goal. Pull it apart. Get smaller, more manageable. These little things add up to success. You get momentum. What are some of the ways that you help people build that momentum so that they are actually moving forward and are looking at things that can be measured?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I think that any time you start a goal, you need a springboard. You need a way to have at least a small succession in a short period of time so the motivation stays high for you to continue. I go back to losing weight. It may be that you have a week where there is a cleanse or a fast. It’s a little simpler to do, and it gets off three to four pounds. All of a sudden, you kickstart everything. When I am teaching real estate, I give my students a kickstart course, which is a simple course with four to five simple instructions that allows you to go out and see progress instantly so you are motivated to continue.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s it. Sometimes it’s hard. We have to look back. That’s the beauty and importance of making instant win. When somebody hasn’t been doing things, they start working with you and they’re not stuck, but you go a week and they are just on fire. You talk to them a few days or a week later, and they don’t just have a list, they start off with a list of three things. The next time you talk to them they have <em>War and Peace</em> in front of them. How do you help them manage that process? Does it go from one thing to the extreme to the other? They’re enthusiastic; you don’t want to dampen that. But how do you reel that in as it were to keep somebody from overextending themselves?</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> That’s the catch. When we were first talking about GPS, we talked about setting goals in multiple areas of your life. They have to crash sometimes. Something happens in the personal life because you didn’t set a goal in that area. All of a sudden, you can’t focus on the business life. Or something is happening physically because you didn’t set goals in that area. That is why those crashes come up. If you align, that doesn’t happen as often.</p> <p>What I mean by that is if you think about a lot of pro athletes who didn’t study finance, all of a sudden they get a contract with millions of dollars. Life starts to go fast, and now you see all those other issues. They didn’t focus on their spirituality, so issues come up. They didn’t focus on learning their financial piece about money, so now they start having money problems. When they leave the NBA or NFL, they’re broke. They didn’t align everything, so when life starts to go fast, a crash happens.</p> <p>We have to balance out all those areas in our life and set goals in those individual areas from financial to physical to spiritual to family to spouse to home to auto. When I have my system in place, I have home, auto, style, fashion, everything because there has to be a balance in there that all of these things are important to my life. If I neglect them, there will be a consequence at some point in time. That’s the crash: the consequences from not actually balancing everything out. It’s simple, but it’s complicated. It’s simple because all you have to do is sit down with a piece of paper and say, “What do I want in my physical life? What do I want my health to be like? What do I want my relationship with my creator to be like? What do I want my relationship to be like with my kids? Am I once a week going to take my kids on a date?” Sometimes couples do date night; what about your kids? Have a date night with your kids where you are going to take two hours once a week to spend with each kid because you are going to have two to three kids and not know them as individuals. You have to have that individual time as well. Or what about your spouse? After being in a relationship for so many years, you start to be more like roommates than lovers. There is no romance. That’s because you didn’t set a goal for that to happen. You didn’t focus on that, so it didn’t come to fruition.</p> <p>I saw Hugh on his birthday, and he was out on a date with his wife at a concert. Go, Hugh! That’s GPS in the works. It worked. Keeping the juices going.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I’m just wondering if he said to her, “Honey, you should probably drive because I’ve had a little bit. Because of my age and mental condition, I’ve forgotten my way to the theater.” She probably said, “Turn on the GPS.”</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> That’s probably exactly what happened.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> My wife taught me harassment is a form of affection. I’m getting some of that now.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I only torture people I love. Speaking of people that we love… What happened to me is I said I was going to do some things. Your family may hear some of these grand ideas and schemes and go, “Ah yeah, there he goes again.” There could be a little skepticism from those who are close to us. It’s easy for a bachelor like me, but if you get somebody that is married and they have a family, sometimes that natural resistance that we have within ourselves, it comes from people around us. What are some ways you help people address that? That is very real. There is a lot of pressure with children, spouse, and other obligations.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> I believe every new ideal is born drowning. When you first come up with something in the first few minutes, the moment that you come up with it, it’s best not to share it. It’s better to fully develop it. Someone could say something negative, and it automatically starts to kill that dream because you haven’t fully completed a vision. If you are going to share that idea, don’t share it with anybody who is going to say something negative right away. Go to your support system. Go to your mastermind. Go to the people who are going to tell you how to make it happen, not the people who are going to tell you what could happen if you start to move in that way. I always believe if I come up with a great idea, I don’t even want to share it. If I come up with a new book idea, there are certain people I am not going to share it with, except for a Hugh or a Russ who are going to say, “Joe, you should do this with that,” and they start pouring into that idea, breathing life into it, giving me positive feedback.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s important. Use the support systems that are available and keep it moving. Hugh?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I have a contrasting perspective on that. Sorry there are people being loud around me. My A of SMART goals is accountable. I find there is power in sharing it. I find motivation in like you said, Joe, when you write a goal and people go, “Let me connect you with some people. I can help you with that.” That is one powerful way of motivating ourselves with our goals, by sharing it. Another one is what Russ brought up, sharing it and people go, “You’re going to do what?” I call that motivation. Watch me! There is a twist on that piece. I think you can win.</p> <p>We are coming up to our last five minutes here. Russ, do you have any more questions? Or do you want to let Joe do a final tip or piece of advice for people?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There is a lot. I could spend all day asking questions. But I would really love for Joe to put a nice bow on it and talk to people because they face all of these doubts. As I said before, their system is deceptively simple in the concept of its intent. Taking that initial step, taking that initial step no matter how overwhelmed you are. I would love to have you talk to people about how they can do that, how they can fight that fear and move through that.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Going through the system like you said is really simple. Figure out what you want in your goal. Hugh spoke briefly about SMART goals. You could easily, and I’ll be happy to put a link up to a SMART goal sheet people can use. SMART goals is that the goal should be specific, measurable- What is the A, Hugh? I forgot.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Accountable.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> He said it before. Accountable. The goal should be realistic and time-sensitive. I will put up some SMART goal sheets on my website that you can use when setting your goals. I like to keep things simple, and that is why I came up with GPS. Know your goal, know why you want that goal, and know the steps to getting there. Simple steps. If it’s five steps or ten steps, whatever the steps are. One of my goals is to help 100 people make $10,000 in real estate investing. To anyone who is on the actual podcast, if they will go to drjoewhite.com/freegift, I am going to put up the SMART goal sheets. I will give them a book on actual goal setting, and I will give them my free real estate kickstart course. That is quite a bit of stuff. Drjoewhite.com/freegift. They can have all of that stuff if they go there.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I put that link up in the chat. That’s great stuff. That’s wonderful.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’ll make sure that link is in the notes for the podcast and on the page for the Nonprofit Exchange at thenonprofitexchange.org. We will put those links on that page.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yeah, I’ve got it in the chat here. This is wonderful stuff, Joe. I love your system. I am going to go have a look at that. Love to talk to you a little bit further.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Most definitely, Russ. I am here to help anybody I can. I enjoy helping. I think service is super important. I want to serve and be a servant and help in any way I possibly can. We all have some things we want to achieve. We all want to be better. I would just say to everybody that now is the time. If not now, when? That is what I always ask people.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Now is the time. Hugh?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Time is now. The time is now. Russ, those were really good questions. Joe, I teach goals, but like I said earlier in the broadcast, Joe did this module in my workshop in Raleigh. He did a better job than I do teaching my modules. I wanted to have him here to do that. When Russ does a module, he does a better job than me. One way I look really good is surround yourself better than you are, which is what Russ talked about earlier. Joe, thank you so much for being a guest today. Russ, thank you for being my co-host in this and crafting such great questions. Joe, we will put your information on the podcast and on the site. Thank you for the offer and the free gift for people.</p> <p><strong>Joe:</strong> Thank you, Hugh. Have a great trip and a great time in Florida.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m loving it. Thank you.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Money Has Ears</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/money-has-ears</link>
      <description>NPC Don Ward – 9/26/17
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to this version of the Nonprofit Exchange. Russell David Dennis, how are you today sir?
 Russell Dennis: it’s a beautiful day here in Colorado. A little cloudy, a little cool. It’s a great day just to be alive.
 Don Ward:
 Hugh: We have a long-time friend and another brilliant person who is in my life. Russ haven’t met him yet, but you will discover for yourself that Don has many, any gifts. We are going to talk about a special topic: We are all challenged around the topic of talking about money. We like to champion charity as the definition of what we do in the social benefit sector. The word is nonprofit is used a lot. I ends to color our thinking about money. Our guest today is Don Ward. Don Ward wears a number of hats. I know Don Ward from the CEO clubs in Central Florida, where you have introduced me to some really great leaders. Don, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange.
 Don: Thank you very much. Honored to be here. As they say, whatever you honor will honor you.
 Hugh: Love it. There are a lo of things you do, but in this space of influencing leaders, our topic today is money has eyes. Talk about your background, your experience, and what gives you the knowledge and wisdom to present today around this topic.
 Don: Mistakes and great mentors. The only two ways you learn. So I would say that is what qualifies me. Probably there is a call that I am going to give you a mock version of that call later. I used to run a CEO of an organization you and I were a part of. People would find outa bout an event and go, “Oh my god, I have to be there. My credit card is maxed out. I don’t have any cash. Nobody loves me.” And all that stuff. We would just say, “Do you see yourself being there next week?” They say, “Yeah, I gotta be.” Okay. No problem. Be on a call at 9:00 on Wednesday night. I’ll give you a dose of that call a little later on.
 Hugh: Great.
 Don: But yes, I have helped over 400 companies raise seed capital on up to over a billion. I could go into a whole lo of things about what attracts money, but I will give you the coaching little bit segment there. Basically, if you have an A-level team and you have a B-level play-in, you are funded. You have an A-level play-in and a B-level team. Ain’t no money comin’.
 Hugh: Whoa. That’s a reality check. So you have some really good information to share with us today. We often just go back and forth in a Q&amp;A with guests. I want to give you some space to share in a presentation mode about money has eyes. I heard you say, you kind of slipped it in, that you helped 400 companies raise capital. Is that what you said?
 Don: Absolutely. I don’t have it on my business card. I don’t have it on my website because I only do it for people that I know I am divinely called to work in conjunction with. Not everybody is our assignment.
 Hugh: Got it. We work with- Russell and I work with charities. I work with early-stage entrepreneurs. Many, many, many are challenged. This is a great topic for everyone, so I want to get out of your way. So you have worked with seed capital, and I heard you say a billion dollars.
 Don: Well, actually, I am sitting on two operations right now. We are in the middle of a $9.9 billion raise on one, and the other we are in the middle of a $500 million one, but we are gonna need a lot more than that before it’s done. My biggest part to bring to it isn’t just laying out the corporate engineering or the capital development, but really it’s helping people to reshape their vision and mission. If you can talk about what you can do in 15 words or less, people might hear what your’ saying, and you might actually sound like you know what you’re talking about. But if you can get it down to five words, you are powerful, probably the most powerful person at the event. Especially if it is a networking event. They ask you what it is; you want money to be asking you questions, you don’t want to be telling it anything.
 Hugh: That’s a paradigm shift. Why don’t you share with us about Money Has Eyes?
 Don: Okay. That might be my two-point oversion because the actual title is Ears. But I like it.
 Hugh: Ears, ears. Sorry.
 Don: Because you can’t receive what you can’t perceive. Mony does have to see what you ar talking about. I’m with ya. I say Money Has Ears, and I talk about money as if it is its own entity. People have it, but money is listening all on its own, and it knows exactly what it wants to hear, sense, or see coming from you. If it is smelling need or fear, goodby money. I work in a lot of faith-basd organizations as well, and people are always coming up and going, “Well, God gave me this idea, and He is going to fund it.” I go, “Okay. Let’s pretend you’re God. If you’re God and you’re looking down and you know that you are going to lean on your understanding, would you fund it? God is not going to fund it. God is as much about team as the world is about team. If you got the wrong team, the money isn’t coming. Maybe we need to reshape what your priorities are.” A lot of people say the next thing, when you ask them, is money. The next thing you need is team. The reason you don’t have money is because you don’t have the team. People aren’t compelled to believe that you can execute the plan you allegedly have. In the nonprofit sector, I think one of the big issues is always been they lead with their need. Let’s say that you have a church and you are saying, “Oh my God, we need fifty grand by Friday, or we are going to have to close this church down.” God is sitting there looking at you going, “Well, if you clos down, I am going to look bad. However, I’m not moved by your need.” God is not even moved by your need. What is He moved by? Your faith. If He is moved by your faith, and your ability to execute properly with what you have in your hand, chances are money will come. But asking, seeking, and knocking, okay. Start on your knees, but actually at some point, you have to go outside and ask, seek, and knock. If you are going to ask, seek, and knock, do you know how to talk to money? Do you understand that money has the attention span of a third-grader with ADD and a fourteenth-century classroom? Teacher starts writing on a chalkboard with chalk. Student is left the room. If your first introductory comments in your capital presentation go over about fifteen words, your investor probably lft the room mentally, too. What is that investor listening for? Well, there are thre things I belive money is attractd to: vision, passion, and team. I do a lot of coaching with a lot of different entities. Before I go on board with them, I ask three questions. 1) If they won’t die for it, I am not getting on board with them because they won’t be doing it this time next year. 2) Is it global? Anything less than that, what if, is the seed of a dream, just a cash flow strategy. Is money looking for interest on its money or multipls? Multiples. Okay. But we are going to convert this into nonprofit talk here in a second. 3) Is it socially responsible? Is it doing greater good for mankind? If those visions say yes to those thre questions, then okay, let’s sit down and talk because right there, I know you got the passion ecause you are willing to die for it, I know you got the vision because it’s global. You have permitted yourself to see beyond a cash flow. You just permitted yourself to see beyond your own ability. You have permitted yourself to see beyond your own resources. In my line of thinking, God never askd you to do anything you have the ability to do. He is counting on you ot build a team. That leads to what if there are three phases to a dream: the birth, the death, and the resurrection. Why does every dream at some point have to die? because entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs. Anything they know at all, ask me how I know. what happens is they lean on their own understanding. They don’t have mentors half the time, probably a lot more than half the time. They have no revelation of team. It’s just a matter of time before the dream is going to die. God is not worried about it either because He is not letting the dream go away. Once He gives you something, it’s yours; you’re stuck with it. It’s your gift. You can be grateful or consider it a curse, whatever you want. But the bottom line is, that’s your responsibility. You’ll have this desire at times to resurrect the dream. This time you’re teachable. Do you want to start getting into the Money Has Ears routine? I was setting it up, I guess.
 Hugh: Yes, sir. Go for it.
 Don: All right. People would come on this call at 9:00 at night, and you’re hearing all this chatter in the background. “Okay, let’s start off. Everyone on this call is here because you need to raise some money and quick. You all need to raise at least ten grand to join this organization, get your hotel, get your airfare, blah blah blah. Right. How many people like asking other people for money?” Booo. Hiss. Everybody is like, “No, I hate it, man.” “Okay. Befor you ask for money, you have to come to a place of understanding a certain element about what you’re going to do with the money. Are you raising this money in the case of this call? Are you raising this money so you can come out, you can network with the kings and queens of industry, build a team, raise capital, because your product, your service, your ministry, your charity can do great things for mankind?” All of a sudden, everybody is like, “Yeah, that’s me, man. My product is going to change the world. What I do for mankind, I am going to be digging water wells in Africa.” Everybody has a different thing. “Okay, next question. Are you actually needy in the world, or are you needed by the world?” People are having Aha moments. “Crap, man, I am needed by the world. I am needed by the world, man.” “All right, if you are needed by the world, then are you actually raising money for you or the people you’re going to serve?” “Oh. Actually I got to get this money so I can help all the people that in my heart I am going to mak a big difference for what I am bringing to mankind.” “Okay, before we finish the call or carry on any further in the call, everyone take am oment now and make that little shift. Tak that switch that says ‘I am needy because I gotta go talk to people about money’ and click it over to here where I am needed. Everyone make a shift?” “Yeah.” “Okay. Next part is going to disappoint a couple of people. Mayb it will hurt somone’s feelings. Does everyone in this call belive in something bigger than themselves?” Yeah. Pretty much everyone did. “Okay. How many of you believe the universe is going to take care of getting you your ten grand in the next couple days so you can b out there?” A lot of people go yeah. They’re cheering. “How many people believe that Jesus is going to give you the money?” A bunch of people are cheering. “Anyone believe out here that Buddha is going to give you the money?” A coupl people might say it once in a while. I am not going to say all the ones that nobody was vero n the call for. Bottom line, those people on the call did believe in something bigger than themselves. “Okay, that’s all you need. I am going to teach you how to play the game. It doesn’t matter which one of those you believe in, but you hav gotta believ in something bigger than yourself to pull this exercise off.” “Okay, that’s cool.” “if you need to hang up, hang up. No hard feelings.” “We’re all good.” “okay. This is what we’re going to do. First, we are going to do a little exercise. This little exercise, if you have ever ben in MLM, is going to feel familiar. Basically we forgt how many people we know. we know a lot of people. The thing is, w don’t know what to say to those people. We all know that friends and family support your passion and your present but seldom are they ever supportive of your enlarged tomorrow.” “Yeah, you’re right, man. Everyone is telling me I can’t do this, it’s never gonna happen, good luck, I’ll pray for you.” “Okay, that’s all right. This is what you’re going to do for an hour after this call tonight. I want you to sit down and make a list. I don’t care if you have to writ down the name of your dead second-grade teacher. Write it down. The person you met in the elevator last wdneday that give you a business card. Write it down. Any name that comes to mind, writ it down. Okay. Now what. “Now we are going to go through and grade them. A, they may have resources, they may support me. B: I don’t know if they have eresources, I don’t know if they can support me. C: Ain’t no way. What I want to tell everybody on this call is I have had people call me and say, ‘I have three As, five Bs, and like 300 Cs.’ I’d go say, ‘Go practice on a C. I will teach what it is they are going to say.’ Before I do, I have to explain about what money is listening for because we called this Money Has Ears. Money wants to know two things. If I am coming home, how much more money is coming home with me and when? IF I am not coming home, am I doing a greater good for mankind in getting a tax deduction? We have nonprofits on the call tonight?” “Yes.” “We have for-profits?” “Yes.” I am going to give you some modeling of the right language because I am going to tell you a little surprise right now. The truth is, you are not going to even ask the person sitting in front of you for anything but wisdom.” “Oh my God, I thought we were raising money?” “You don’t understand. When you re asking for money, all you ever will get is wisdom. Ask for wisdom.” “He’s probably right. That makes sense.” “Okay. Now here is where you are going to find out who you call. I don’t want you using your head to figure this out. You went through a list-building xercise. I don’t care what you do with it. Cyou can throw it away now.” “Why am I going to do all that work and fill out the list?” “I just wantd to stir up in you to remember how many people you really know.” “Yeah, okay.” “Well, here is the part of the list. This is the part of the exercise where the magic happens. You are going to go, ‘Oh Universe, Oh Buddha, Oh Jesus, whatever your claiming to be your higher power, you’re going to say, ‘Give me five faces.’ This is how long it’s going ot take you ladies and gentlemen. You take ten minues. If you meditate, you meditate. If you pray, you pray. Before you do, you just go, ‘in the next ten minues, I want you to put five faces before me, and I will call those faces in the order that you give them to me.’ There is something about lining up with your word with your maker. If you told your maker, ‘This is what I’m going to do,’ you better do it. You will call those five faces. What are you going to call those five faces for? A ten-minute wisdom meeting.” “Ten minues?” “What I am about to teach you you do not need a business plan, an executive summary. All you need to do is to sell you as being willing to die for it, that this is an incredible opportunity, and that you are building a team capable of executing the plan. You don’t have to prove any of it because you are not asking people for millions. You are asking for thousands. It’s aw hole different league.” “okay.” “Well, this is kind of how it goes, ladies and gentlemen. You are going to call up the five faces that you just got in that ten minutees’ time. I know I just met you in the elevator last Wednesday. I looked you up on LinkedIn, saw you have done a lot of things. I am moving a project forward, and I need to get some counsel from somebody that isn’t family or isn’t a friend. They all are going to be dreamkillers. I need to get a third party look at my project. I promise if our meeting goes eleven minutes, it will be your fault.’ The other person is going, ‘Number one, I just met you last Wednesday. Number two, you think I have wisdom?”
 Let me tell you something. I started the call with whatever you honor will honor you. Anyone who has asked you for wisdom, were you insulted?
 Hugh: No.
 Don: No? You honroed them. I sense I could get some wisdom. I was meditating this morning, and I am going, Man, I need some wisdom. Who can I call? Your face popped up of all things.” “Really? I just met you in the elevator last Wednesday.” “I don’t question it. When I ask my maker for a face and he gives me the face, I am going to go talk to the face. You’er the face. Would you honor me with ten minues of your time? I promise it won’t take eleven.” “Yeah, okay.” “To honor your time, I understand there is a Starbucks just a couple blocks from you. I’ll come to you. I’ll be there ahead of schedule. You will be out in ten minutes.” “All right, okay. I’ll come see what you’re talking about.”
 Next day, 2:00, just like you set up with him. You’re there early. You’re looking proessional. Money does have eyes, and if it looks at you and says, “You ain’t professional,” so thanks for that tidbit there, Hugh. We are going to add in an adiditon that money ahs eyes, too. It’s looking for something better to do. Money is always looking for something better to do than it’s doing today. It’ll go form point A to point B in the speed of thought. It has no loyalty. Money doesn’t like to keep doing the same stupid thing it did befor either.
 Nonprofits have a real issue if they can’t give a compelling vision of how they are learning to actually reproduce once you give them some seed. Most nonprofits are just eating the seed. They are not doing anything with the seed to grow more. There are some issues here. That would be another phon call.
 Here we are. Wee’re back to the person in front of you that you met in the elevator last Wednesday. Here is what you’re going to do. You have ten minutes. The first eight minutes, all you’re going to talk about is them. “Man, I’m here to have a meeting and make this money.” “No, everything flows through relationships. Let me ask you a question,” is what I used to say to them. “If you show nine minutes of undivided attention into somebody, do you think you might read one minute of undivided attention?” “Yeah.” “okay. All you need to say is going to take one minute. I am going to teach you what you are going to say in your one minute.” “Okay. All right.”
 “What’ that going to be? Depends on what it is you’re taking out there and what it is you are raising your capital for. Basically, it’s the same whether you’re for-profit or nonprofit. I know I just met you last Wednseday. I am so honored you are sitting here in front of me and you gave me this time. I promised you ten minutes. I have a minute and a half. I can do it in that maount of time. This is what I am working on. I have committed my life to it. I am not quitting until it happens. W are building an incredible team. The plan is getting ever-evolving. As you know, all plans change. We are so proud of our plan. Where we’re at right now, wee’re at like 10k, 10.5. 10k shy of our first phase of development. Who do you know that might be interested in digging water wells in Africa?” Assuming that that is that person’s mission. And you shut up. The first person to talk now loses. And you smile. You sit there for ten minues. They are the one holding this meeting any longer because they aren’t talking. You just smile. You sit there. They will come back.
 Money always says, “So what are you offering?” If you are an onprofit, that is way too easy an answer. A chance to earn some human interest, do some good for mankind, and give a tax deduction. That’s all that it’s looking for. Nonprofit money, that’s all it’s looking for. The question is, what are you offering? Is what you are doing for mankind btter than what it is presently doing for mankind? That’s only convincing to the money if it’s sold out ha you are sold out. How sold out are you? You just told them you committed your life to bringing this to pass. You are doing everything. You hav ben building this fortune-level team. You have a fortune-level plan. That’s another key word to throw in there. Those words represent that you’re professional. You’re not messing around. They are not going to stop and go, “Can I see your executive summary?” You are not talking about fifty or one hundred thousand or a million dollars. “I find three people at $333 a piece. We’re there.”
 If you’re for-profit, then the person is going to turn to you and dsay, “What are you offering?” You’re going to say, “We are offering a convertible promissory note. It’s saying 1% simple interest per month, 12% per year. Can you get that at your bank?” “No.” No, you can’t get anything close to that at your bank, can you? “No.” “What are you saying about a convertible?” “We’re getting ready to raise capital. During that cycle of a one-year offering, if somebody wants their money back at a payment, we will pay it back to you.”
 The people on the call are going, “Where am I getting the 12% interest?”
  
  
  
  
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      <pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2017 19:11:34 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/80ecd188-b329-11eb-9f0f-fbf73f3e79ab/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Don Ward, CEO Advisor</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>NPC Don Ward – 9/26/17
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome to this version of the Nonprofit Exchange. Russell David Dennis, how are you today sir?
 Russell Dennis: it’s a beautiful day here in Colorado. A little cloudy, a little cool. It’s a great day just to be alive.
 Don Ward:
 Hugh: We have a long-time friend and another brilliant person who is in my life. Russ haven’t met him yet, but you will discover for yourself that Don has many, any gifts. We are going to talk about a special topic: We are all challenged around the topic of talking about money. We like to champion charity as the definition of what we do in the social benefit sector. The word is nonprofit is used a lot. I ends to color our thinking about money. Our guest today is Don Ward. Don Ward wears a number of hats. I know Don Ward from the CEO clubs in Central Florida, where you have introduced me to some really great leaders. Don, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange.
 Don: Thank you very much. Honored to be here. As they say, whatever you honor will honor you.
 Hugh: Love it. There are a lo of things you do, but in this space of influencing leaders, our topic today is money has eyes. Talk about your background, your experience, and what gives you the knowledge and wisdom to present today around this topic.
 Don: Mistakes and great mentors. The only two ways you learn. So I would say that is what qualifies me. Probably there is a call that I am going to give you a mock version of that call later. I used to run a CEO of an organization you and I were a part of. People would find outa bout an event and go, “Oh my god, I have to be there. My credit card is maxed out. I don’t have any cash. Nobody loves me.” And all that stuff. We would just say, “Do you see yourself being there next week?” They say, “Yeah, I gotta be.” Okay. No problem. Be on a call at 9:00 on Wednesday night. I’ll give you a dose of that call a little later on.
 Hugh: Great.
 Don: But yes, I have helped over 400 companies raise seed capital on up to over a billion. I could go into a whole lo of things about what attracts money, but I will give you the coaching little bit segment there. Basically, if you have an A-level team and you have a B-level play-in, you are funded. You have an A-level play-in and a B-level team. Ain’t no money comin’.
 Hugh: Whoa. That’s a reality check. So you have some really good information to share with us today. We often just go back and forth in a Q&amp;A with guests. I want to give you some space to share in a presentation mode about money has eyes. I heard you say, you kind of slipped it in, that you helped 400 companies raise capital. Is that what you said?
 Don: Absolutely. I don’t have it on my business card. I don’t have it on my website because I only do it for people that I know I am divinely called to work in conjunction with. Not everybody is our assignment.
 Hugh: Got it. We work with- Russell and I work with charities. I work with early-stage entrepreneurs. Many, many, many are challenged. This is a great topic for everyone, so I want to get out of your way. So you have worked with seed capital, and I heard you say a billion dollars.
 Don: Well, actually, I am sitting on two operations right now. We are in the middle of a $9.9 billion raise on one, and the other we are in the middle of a $500 million one, but we are gonna need a lot more than that before it’s done. My biggest part to bring to it isn’t just laying out the corporate engineering or the capital development, but really it’s helping people to reshape their vision and mission. If you can talk about what you can do in 15 words or less, people might hear what your’ saying, and you might actually sound like you know what you’re talking about. But if you can get it down to five words, you are powerful, probably the most powerful person at the event. Especially if it is a networking event. They ask you what it is; you want money to be asking you questions, you don’t want to be telling it anything.
 Hugh: That’s a paradigm shift. Why don’t you share with us about Money Has Eyes?
 Don: Okay. That might be my two-point oversion because the actual title is Ears. But I like it.
 Hugh: Ears, ears. Sorry.
 Don: Because you can’t receive what you can’t perceive. Mony does have to see what you ar talking about. I’m with ya. I say Money Has Ears, and I talk about money as if it is its own entity. People have it, but money is listening all on its own, and it knows exactly what it wants to hear, sense, or see coming from you. If it is smelling need or fear, goodby money. I work in a lot of faith-basd organizations as well, and people are always coming up and going, “Well, God gave me this idea, and He is going to fund it.” I go, “Okay. Let’s pretend you’re God. If you’re God and you’re looking down and you know that you are going to lean on your understanding, would you fund it? God is not going to fund it. God is as much about team as the world is about team. If you got the wrong team, the money isn’t coming. Maybe we need to reshape what your priorities are.” A lot of people say the next thing, when you ask them, is money. The next thing you need is team. The reason you don’t have money is because you don’t have the team. People aren’t compelled to believe that you can execute the plan you allegedly have. In the nonprofit sector, I think one of the big issues is always been they lead with their need. Let’s say that you have a church and you are saying, “Oh my God, we need fifty grand by Friday, or we are going to have to close this church down.” God is sitting there looking at you going, “Well, if you clos down, I am going to look bad. However, I’m not moved by your need.” God is not even moved by your need. What is He moved by? Your faith. If He is moved by your faith, and your ability to execute properly with what you have in your hand, chances are money will come. But asking, seeking, and knocking, okay. Start on your knees, but actually at some point, you have to go outside and ask, seek, and knock. If you are going to ask, seek, and knock, do you know how to talk to money? Do you understand that money has the attention span of a third-grader with ADD and a fourteenth-century classroom? Teacher starts writing on a chalkboard with chalk. Student is left the room. If your first introductory comments in your capital presentation go over about fifteen words, your investor probably lft the room mentally, too. What is that investor listening for? Well, there are thre things I belive money is attractd to: vision, passion, and team. I do a lot of coaching with a lot of different entities. Before I go on board with them, I ask three questions. 1) If they won’t die for it, I am not getting on board with them because they won’t be doing it this time next year. 2) Is it global? Anything less than that, what if, is the seed of a dream, just a cash flow strategy. Is money looking for interest on its money or multipls? Multiples. Okay. But we are going to convert this into nonprofit talk here in a second. 3) Is it socially responsible? Is it doing greater good for mankind? If those visions say yes to those thre questions, then okay, let’s sit down and talk because right there, I know you got the passion ecause you are willing to die for it, I know you got the vision because it’s global. You have permitted yourself to see beyond a cash flow. You just permitted yourself to see beyond your own ability. You have permitted yourself to see beyond your own resources. In my line of thinking, God never askd you to do anything you have the ability to do. He is counting on you ot build a team. That leads to what if there are three phases to a dream: the birth, the death, and the resurrection. Why does every dream at some point have to die? because entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs. Anything they know at all, ask me how I know. what happens is they lean on their own understanding. They don’t have mentors half the time, probably a lot more than half the time. They have no revelation of team. It’s just a matter of time before the dream is going to die. God is not worried about it either because He is not letting the dream go away. Once He gives you something, it’s yours; you’re stuck with it. It’s your gift. You can be grateful or consider it a curse, whatever you want. But the bottom line is, that’s your responsibility. You’ll have this desire at times to resurrect the dream. This time you’re teachable. Do you want to start getting into the Money Has Ears routine? I was setting it up, I guess.
 Hugh: Yes, sir. Go for it.
 Don: All right. People would come on this call at 9:00 at night, and you’re hearing all this chatter in the background. “Okay, let’s start off. Everyone on this call is here because you need to raise some money and quick. You all need to raise at least ten grand to join this organization, get your hotel, get your airfare, blah blah blah. Right. How many people like asking other people for money?” Booo. Hiss. Everybody is like, “No, I hate it, man.” “Okay. Befor you ask for money, you have to come to a place of understanding a certain element about what you’re going to do with the money. Are you raising this money in the case of this call? Are you raising this money so you can come out, you can network with the kings and queens of industry, build a team, raise capital, because your product, your service, your ministry, your charity can do great things for mankind?” All of a sudden, everybody is like, “Yeah, that’s me, man. My product is going to change the world. What I do for mankind, I am going to be digging water wells in Africa.” Everybody has a different thing. “Okay, next question. Are you actually needy in the world, or are you needed by the world?” People are having Aha moments. “Crap, man, I am needed by the world. I am needed by the world, man.” “All right, if you are needed by the world, then are you actually raising money for you or the people you’re going to serve?” “Oh. Actually I got to get this money so I can help all the people that in my heart I am going to mak a big difference for what I am bringing to mankind.” “Okay, before we finish the call or carry on any further in the call, everyone take am oment now and make that little shift. Tak that switch that says ‘I am needy because I gotta go talk to people about money’ and click it over to here where I am needed. Everyone make a shift?” “Yeah.” “Okay. Next part is going to disappoint a couple of people. Mayb it will hurt somone’s feelings. Does everyone in this call belive in something bigger than themselves?” Yeah. Pretty much everyone did. “Okay. How many of you believe the universe is going to take care of getting you your ten grand in the next couple days so you can b out there?” A lot of people go yeah. They’re cheering. “How many people believe that Jesus is going to give you the money?” A bunch of people are cheering. “Anyone believe out here that Buddha is going to give you the money?” A coupl people might say it once in a while. I am not going to say all the ones that nobody was vero n the call for. Bottom line, those people on the call did believe in something bigger than themselves. “Okay, that’s all you need. I am going to teach you how to play the game. It doesn’t matter which one of those you believe in, but you hav gotta believ in something bigger than yourself to pull this exercise off.” “Okay, that’s cool.” “if you need to hang up, hang up. No hard feelings.” “We’re all good.” “okay. This is what we’re going to do. First, we are going to do a little exercise. This little exercise, if you have ever ben in MLM, is going to feel familiar. Basically we forgt how many people we know. we know a lot of people. The thing is, w don’t know what to say to those people. We all know that friends and family support your passion and your present but seldom are they ever supportive of your enlarged tomorrow.” “Yeah, you’re right, man. Everyone is telling me I can’t do this, it’s never gonna happen, good luck, I’ll pray for you.” “Okay, that’s all right. This is what you’re going to do for an hour after this call tonight. I want you to sit down and make a list. I don’t care if you have to writ down the name of your dead second-grade teacher. Write it down. The person you met in the elevator last wdneday that give you a business card. Write it down. Any name that comes to mind, writ it down. Okay. Now what. “Now we are going to go through and grade them. A, they may have resources, they may support me. B: I don’t know if they have eresources, I don’t know if they can support me. C: Ain’t no way. What I want to tell everybody on this call is I have had people call me and say, ‘I have three As, five Bs, and like 300 Cs.’ I’d go say, ‘Go practice on a C. I will teach what it is they are going to say.’ Before I do, I have to explain about what money is listening for because we called this Money Has Ears. Money wants to know two things. If I am coming home, how much more money is coming home with me and when? IF I am not coming home, am I doing a greater good for mankind in getting a tax deduction? We have nonprofits on the call tonight?” “Yes.” “We have for-profits?” “Yes.” I am going to give you some modeling of the right language because I am going to tell you a little surprise right now. The truth is, you are not going to even ask the person sitting in front of you for anything but wisdom.” “Oh my God, I thought we were raising money?” “You don’t understand. When you re asking for money, all you ever will get is wisdom. Ask for wisdom.” “He’s probably right. That makes sense.” “Okay. Now here is where you are going to find out who you call. I don’t want you using your head to figure this out. You went through a list-building xercise. I don’t care what you do with it. Cyou can throw it away now.” “Why am I going to do all that work and fill out the list?” “I just wantd to stir up in you to remember how many people you really know.” “Yeah, okay.” “Well, here is the part of the list. This is the part of the exercise where the magic happens. You are going to go, ‘Oh Universe, Oh Buddha, Oh Jesus, whatever your claiming to be your higher power, you’re going to say, ‘Give me five faces.’ This is how long it’s going ot take you ladies and gentlemen. You take ten minues. If you meditate, you meditate. If you pray, you pray. Before you do, you just go, ‘in the next ten minues, I want you to put five faces before me, and I will call those faces in the order that you give them to me.’ There is something about lining up with your word with your maker. If you told your maker, ‘This is what I’m going to do,’ you better do it. You will call those five faces. What are you going to call those five faces for? A ten-minute wisdom meeting.” “Ten minues?” “What I am about to teach you you do not need a business plan, an executive summary. All you need to do is to sell you as being willing to die for it, that this is an incredible opportunity, and that you are building a team capable of executing the plan. You don’t have to prove any of it because you are not asking people for millions. You are asking for thousands. It’s aw hole different league.” “okay.” “Well, this is kind of how it goes, ladies and gentlemen. You are going to call up the five faces that you just got in that ten minutees’ time. I know I just met you in the elevator last Wednesday. I looked you up on LinkedIn, saw you have done a lot of things. I am moving a project forward, and I need to get some counsel from somebody that isn’t family or isn’t a friend. They all are going to be dreamkillers. I need to get a third party look at my project. I promise if our meeting goes eleven minutes, it will be your fault.’ The other person is going, ‘Number one, I just met you last Wednesday. Number two, you think I have wisdom?”
 Let me tell you something. I started the call with whatever you honor will honor you. Anyone who has asked you for wisdom, were you insulted?
 Hugh: No.
 Don: No? You honroed them. I sense I could get some wisdom. I was meditating this morning, and I am going, Man, I need some wisdom. Who can I call? Your face popped up of all things.” “Really? I just met you in the elevator last Wednesday.” “I don’t question it. When I ask my maker for a face and he gives me the face, I am going to go talk to the face. You’er the face. Would you honor me with ten minues of your time? I promise it won’t take eleven.” “Yeah, okay.” “To honor your time, I understand there is a Starbucks just a couple blocks from you. I’ll come to you. I’ll be there ahead of schedule. You will be out in ten minutes.” “All right, okay. I’ll come see what you’re talking about.”
 Next day, 2:00, just like you set up with him. You’re there early. You’re looking proessional. Money does have eyes, and if it looks at you and says, “You ain’t professional,” so thanks for that tidbit there, Hugh. We are going to add in an adiditon that money ahs eyes, too. It’s looking for something better to do. Money is always looking for something better to do than it’s doing today. It’ll go form point A to point B in the speed of thought. It has no loyalty. Money doesn’t like to keep doing the same stupid thing it did befor either.
 Nonprofits have a real issue if they can’t give a compelling vision of how they are learning to actually reproduce once you give them some seed. Most nonprofits are just eating the seed. They are not doing anything with the seed to grow more. There are some issues here. That would be another phon call.
 Here we are. Wee’re back to the person in front of you that you met in the elevator last Wednesday. Here is what you’re going to do. You have ten minutes. The first eight minutes, all you’re going to talk about is them. “Man, I’m here to have a meeting and make this money.” “No, everything flows through relationships. Let me ask you a question,” is what I used to say to them. “If you show nine minutes of undivided attention into somebody, do you think you might read one minute of undivided attention?” “Yeah.” “okay. All you need to say is going to take one minute. I am going to teach you what you are going to say in your one minute.” “Okay. All right.”
 “What’ that going to be? Depends on what it is you’re taking out there and what it is you are raising your capital for. Basically, it’s the same whether you’re for-profit or nonprofit. I know I just met you last Wednseday. I am so honored you are sitting here in front of me and you gave me this time. I promised you ten minutes. I have a minute and a half. I can do it in that maount of time. This is what I am working on. I have committed my life to it. I am not quitting until it happens. W are building an incredible team. The plan is getting ever-evolving. As you know, all plans change. We are so proud of our plan. Where we’re at right now, wee’re at like 10k, 10.5. 10k shy of our first phase of development. Who do you know that might be interested in digging water wells in Africa?” Assuming that that is that person’s mission. And you shut up. The first person to talk now loses. And you smile. You sit there for ten minues. They are the one holding this meeting any longer because they aren’t talking. You just smile. You sit there. They will come back.
 Money always says, “So what are you offering?” If you are an onprofit, that is way too easy an answer. A chance to earn some human interest, do some good for mankind, and give a tax deduction. That’s all that it’s looking for. Nonprofit money, that’s all it’s looking for. The question is, what are you offering? Is what you are doing for mankind btter than what it is presently doing for mankind? That’s only convincing to the money if it’s sold out ha you are sold out. How sold out are you? You just told them you committed your life to bringing this to pass. You are doing everything. You hav ben building this fortune-level team. You have a fortune-level plan. That’s another key word to throw in there. Those words represent that you’re professional. You’re not messing around. They are not going to stop and go, “Can I see your executive summary?” You are not talking about fifty or one hundred thousand or a million dollars. “I find three people at $333 a piece. We’re there.”
 If you’re for-profit, then the person is going to turn to you and dsay, “What are you offering?” You’re going to say, “We are offering a convertible promissory note. It’s saying 1% simple interest per month, 12% per year. Can you get that at your bank?” “No.” No, you can’t get anything close to that at your bank, can you? “No.” “What are you saying about a convertible?” “We’re getting ready to raise capital. During that cycle of a one-year offering, if somebody wants their money back at a payment, we will pay it back to you.”
 The people on the call are going, “Where am I getting the 12% interest?”
  
  
  
  
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>NPC Don Ward – 9/26/17</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome to this version of the Nonprofit Exchange. Russell David Dennis, how are you today sir?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> it’s a beautiful day here in Colorado. A little cloudy, a little cool. It’s a great day just to be alive.</p> <p><strong>Don Ward:</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have a long-time friend and another brilliant person who is in my life. Russ haven’t met him yet, but you will discover for yourself that Don has many, any gifts. We are going to talk about a special topic: We are all challenged around the topic of talking about money. We like to champion charity as the definition of what we do in the social benefit sector. The word is nonprofit is used a lot. I ends to color our thinking about money. Our guest today is Don Ward. Don Ward wears a number of hats. I know Don Ward from the CEO clubs in Central Florida, where you have introduced me to some really great leaders. Don, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange.</p> <p><strong>Don:</strong> Thank you very much. Honored to be here. As they say, whatever you honor will honor you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. There are a lo of things you do, but in this space of influencing leaders, our topic today is money has eyes. Talk about your background, your experience, and what gives you the knowledge and wisdom to present today around this topic.</p> <p><strong>Don:</strong> Mistakes and great mentors. The only two ways you learn. So I would say that is what qualifies me. Probably there is a call that I am going to give you a mock version of that call later. I used to run a CEO of an organization you and I were a part of. People would find outa bout an event and go, “Oh my god, I have to be there. My credit card is maxed out. I don’t have any cash. Nobody loves me.” And all that stuff. We would just say, “Do you see yourself being there next week?” They say, “Yeah, I gotta be.” Okay. No problem. Be on a call at 9:00 on Wednesday night. I’ll give you a dose of that call a little later on.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great.</p> <p><strong>Don:</strong> But yes, I have helped over 400 companies raise seed capital on up to over a billion. I could go into a whole lo of things about what attracts money, but I will give you the coaching little bit segment there. Basically, if you have an A-level team and you have a B-level play-in, you are funded. You have an A-level play-in and a B-level team. Ain’t no money comin’.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Whoa. That’s a reality check. So you have some really good information to share with us today. We often just go back and forth in a Q&amp;A with guests. I want to give you some space to share in a presentation mode about money has eyes. I heard you say, you kind of slipped it in, that you helped 400 companies raise capital. Is that what you said?</p> <p><strong>Don:</strong> Absolutely. I don’t have it on my business card. I don’t have it on my website because I only do it for people that I know I am divinely called to work in conjunction with. Not everybody is our assignment.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Got it. We work with- Russell and I work with charities. I work with early-stage entrepreneurs. Many, many, many are challenged. This is a great topic for everyone, so I want to get out of your way. So you have worked with seed capital, and I heard you say a billion dollars.</p> <p><strong>Don:</strong> Well, actually, I am sitting on two operations right now. We are in the middle of a $9.9 billion raise on one, and the other we are in the middle of a $500 million one, but we are gonna need a lot more than that before it’s done. My biggest part to bring to it isn’t just laying out the corporate engineering or the capital development, but really it’s helping people to reshape their vision and mission. If you can talk about what you can do in 15 words or less, people might hear what your’ saying, and you might actually sound like you know what you’re talking about. But if you can get it down to five words, you are powerful, probably the most powerful person at the event. Especially if it is a networking event. They ask you what it is; you want money to be asking you questions, you don’t want to be telling it anything.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a paradigm shift. Why don’t you share with us about Money Has Eyes?</p> <p><strong>Don:</strong> Okay. That might be my two-point oversion because the actual title is Ears. But I like it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Ears, ears. Sorry.</p> <p><strong>Don:</strong> Because you can’t receive what you can’t perceive. Mony does have to see what you ar talking about. I’m with ya. I say Money Has Ears, and I talk about money as if it is its own entity. People have it, but money is listening all on its own, and it knows exactly what it wants to hear, sense, or see coming from you. If it is smelling need or fear, goodby money. I work in a lot of faith-basd organizations as well, and people are always coming up and going, “Well, God gave me this idea, and He is going to fund it.” I go, “Okay. Let’s pretend you’re God. If you’re God and you’re looking down and you know that you are going to lean on your understanding, would you fund it? God is not going to fund it. God is as much about team as the world is about team. If you got the wrong team, the money isn’t coming. Maybe we need to reshape what your priorities are.” A lot of people say the next thing, when you ask them, is money. The next thing you need is team. The reason you don’t have money is because you don’t have the team. People aren’t compelled to believe that you can execute the plan you allegedly have. In the nonprofit sector, I think one of the big issues is always been they lead with their need. Let’s say that you have a church and you are saying, “Oh my God, we need fifty grand by Friday, or we are going to have to close this church down.” God is sitting there looking at you going, “Well, if you clos down, I am going to look bad. However, I’m not moved by your need.” God is not even moved by your need. What is He moved by? Your faith. If He is moved by your faith, and your ability to execute properly with what you have in your hand, chances are money will come. But asking, seeking, and knocking, okay. Start on your knees, but actually at some point, you have to go outside and ask, seek, and knock. If you are going to ask, seek, and knock, do you know how to talk to money? Do you understand that money has the attention span of a third-grader with ADD and a fourteenth-century classroom? Teacher starts writing on a chalkboard with chalk. Student is left the room. If your first introductory comments in your capital presentation go over about fifteen words, your investor probably lft the room mentally, too. What is that investor listening for? Well, there are thre things I belive money is attractd to: vision, passion, and team. I do a lot of coaching with a lot of different entities. Before I go on board with them, I ask three questions. 1) If they won’t die for it, I am not getting on board with them because they won’t be doing it this time next year. 2) Is it global? Anything less than that, what if, is the seed of a dream, just a cash flow strategy. Is money looking for interest on its money or multipls? Multiples. Okay. But we are going to convert this into nonprofit talk here in a second. 3) Is it socially responsible? Is it doing greater good for mankind? If those visions say yes to those thre questions, then okay, let’s sit down and talk because right there, I know you got the passion ecause you are willing to die for it, I know you got the vision because it’s global. You have permitted yourself to see beyond a cash flow. You just permitted yourself to see beyond your own ability. You have permitted yourself to see beyond your own resources. In my line of thinking, God never askd you to do anything you have the ability to do. He is counting on you ot build a team. That leads to what if there are three phases to a dream: the birth, the death, and the resurrection. Why does every dream at some point have to die? because entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs. Anything they know at all, ask me how I know. what happens is they lean on their own understanding. They don’t have mentors half the time, probably a lot more than half the time. They have no revelation of team. It’s just a matter of time before the dream is going to die. God is not worried about it either because He is not letting the dream go away. Once He gives you something, it’s yours; you’re stuck with it. It’s your gift. You can be grateful or consider it a curse, whatever you want. But the bottom line is, that’s your responsibility. You’ll have this desire at times to resurrect the dream. This time you’re teachable. Do you want to start getting into the Money Has Ears routine? I was setting it up, I guess.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes, sir. Go for it.</p> <p><strong>Don:</strong> All right. People would come on this call at 9:00 at night, and you’re hearing all this chatter in the background. “Okay, let’s start off. Everyone on this call is here because you need to raise some money and quick. You all need to raise at least ten grand to join this organization, get your hotel, get your airfare, blah blah blah. Right. How many people like asking other people for money?” Booo. Hiss. Everybody is like, “No, I hate it, man.” “Okay. Befor you ask for money, you have to come to a place of understanding a certain element about what you’re going to do with the money. Are you raising this money in the case of this call? Are you raising this money so you can come out, you can network with the kings and queens of industry, build a team, raise capital, because your product, your service, your ministry, your charity can do great things for mankind?” All of a sudden, everybody is like, “Yeah, that’s me, man. My product is going to change the world. What I do for mankind, I am going to be digging water wells in Africa.” Everybody has a different thing. “Okay, next question. Are you actually needy in the world, or are you needed by the world?” People are having Aha moments. “Crap, man, I am needed by the world. I am needed by the world, man.” “All right, if you are needed by the world, then are you actually raising money for you or the people you’re going to serve?” “Oh. Actually I got to get this money so I can help all the people that in my heart I am going to mak a big difference for what I am bringing to mankind.” “Okay, before we finish the call or carry on any further in the call, everyone take am oment now and make that little shift. Tak that switch that says ‘I am needy because I gotta go talk to people about money’ and click it over to here where I am needed. Everyone make a shift?” “Yeah.” “Okay. Next part is going to disappoint a couple of people. Mayb it will hurt somone’s feelings. Does everyone in this call belive in something bigger than themselves?” Yeah. Pretty much everyone did. “Okay. How many of you believe the universe is going to take care of getting you your ten grand in the next couple days so you can b out there?” A lot of people go yeah. They’re cheering. “How many people believe that Jesus is going to give you the money?” A bunch of people are cheering. “Anyone believe out here that Buddha is going to give you the money?” A coupl people might say it once in a while. I am not going to say all the ones that nobody was vero n the call for. Bottom line, those people on the call did believe in something bigger than themselves. “Okay, that’s all you need. I am going to teach you how to play the game. It doesn’t matter which one of those you believe in, but you hav gotta believ in something bigger than yourself to pull this exercise off.” “Okay, that’s cool.” “if you need to hang up, hang up. No hard feelings.” “We’re all good.” “okay. This is what we’re going to do. First, we are going to do a little exercise. This little exercise, if you have ever ben in MLM, is going to feel familiar. Basically we forgt how many people we know. we know a lot of people. The thing is, w don’t know what to say to those people. We all know that friends and family support your passion and your present but seldom are they ever supportive of your enlarged tomorrow.” “Yeah, you’re right, man. Everyone is telling me I can’t do this, it’s never gonna happen, good luck, I’ll pray for you.” “Okay, that’s all right. This is what you’re going to do for an hour after this call tonight. I want you to sit down and make a list. I don’t care if you have to writ down the name of your dead second-grade teacher. Write it down. The person you met in the elevator last wdneday that give you a business card. Write it down. Any name that comes to mind, writ it down. Okay. Now what. “Now we are going to go through and grade them. A, they may have resources, they may support me. B: I don’t know if they have eresources, I don’t know if they can support me. C: Ain’t no way. What I want to tell everybody on this call is I have had people call me and say, ‘I have three As, five Bs, and like 300 Cs.’ I’d go say, ‘Go practice on a C. I will teach what it is they are going to say.’ Before I do, I have to explain about what money is listening for because we called this Money Has Ears. Money wants to know two things. If I am coming home, how much more money is coming home with me and when? IF I am not coming home, am I doing a greater good for mankind in getting a tax deduction? We have nonprofits on the call tonight?” “Yes.” “We have for-profits?” “Yes.” I am going to give you some modeling of the right language because I am going to tell you a little surprise right now. The truth is, you are not going to even ask the person sitting in front of you for anything but wisdom.” “Oh my God, I thought we were raising money?” “You don’t understand. When you re asking for money, all you ever will get is wisdom. Ask for wisdom.” “He’s probably right. That makes sense.” “Okay. Now here is where you are going to find out who you call. I don’t want you using your head to figure this out. You went through a list-building xercise. I don’t care what you do with it. Cyou can throw it away now.” “Why am I going to do all that work and fill out the list?” “I just wantd to stir up in you to remember how many people you really know.” “Yeah, okay.” “Well, here is the part of the list. This is the part of the exercise where the magic happens. You are going to go, ‘Oh Universe, Oh Buddha, Oh Jesus, whatever your claiming to be your higher power, you’re going to say, ‘Give me five faces.’ This is how long it’s going ot take you ladies and gentlemen. You take ten minues. If you meditate, you meditate. If you pray, you pray. Before you do, you just go, ‘in the next ten minues, I want you to put five faces before me, and I will call those faces in the order that you give them to me.’ There is something about lining up with your word with your maker. If you told your maker, ‘This is what I’m going to do,’ you better do it. You will call those five faces. What are you going to call those five faces for? A ten-minute wisdom meeting.” “Ten minues?” “What I am about to teach you you do not need a business plan, an executive summary. All you need to do is to sell you as being willing to die for it, that this is an incredible opportunity, and that you are building a team capable of executing the plan. You don’t have to prove any of it because you are not asking people for millions. You are asking for thousands. It’s aw hole different league.” “okay.” “Well, this is kind of how it goes, ladies and gentlemen. You are going to call up the five faces that you just got in that ten minutees’ time. I know I just met you in the elevator last Wednesday. I looked you up on LinkedIn, saw you have done a lot of things. I am moving a project forward, and I need to get some counsel from somebody that isn’t family or isn’t a friend. They all are going to be dreamkillers. I need to get a third party look at my project. I promise if our meeting goes eleven minutes, it will be your fault.’ The other person is going, ‘Number one, I just met you last Wednesday. Number two, you think I have wisdom?”</p> <p>Let me tell you something. I started the call with whatever you honor will honor you. Anyone who has asked you for wisdom, were you insulted?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> No.</p> <p><strong>Don:</strong> No? You honroed them. I sense I could get some wisdom. I was meditating this morning, and I am going, Man, I need some wisdom. Who can I call? Your face popped up of all things.” “Really? I just met you in the elevator last Wednesday.” “I don’t question it. When I ask my maker for a face and he gives me the face, I am going to go talk to the face. You’er the face. Would you honor me with ten minues of your time? I promise it won’t take eleven.” “Yeah, okay.” “To honor your time, I understand there is a Starbucks just a couple blocks from you. I’ll come to you. I’ll be there ahead of schedule. You will be out in ten minutes.” “All right, okay. I’ll come see what you’re talking about.”</p> <p>Next day, 2:00, just like you set up with him. You’re there early. You’re looking proessional. Money does have eyes, and if it looks at you and says, “You ain’t professional,” so thanks for that tidbit there, Hugh. We are going to add in an adiditon that money ahs eyes, too. It’s looking for something better to do. Money is always looking for something better to do than it’s doing today. It’ll go form point A to point B in the speed of thought. It has no loyalty. Money doesn’t like to keep doing the same stupid thing it did befor either.</p> <p>Nonprofits have a real issue if they can’t give a compelling vision of how they are learning to actually reproduce once you give them some seed. Most nonprofits are just eating the seed. They are not doing anything with the seed to grow more. There are some issues here. That would be another phon call.</p> <p>Here we are. Wee’re back to the person in front of you that you met in the elevator last Wednesday. Here is what you’re going to do. You have ten minutes. The first eight minutes, all you’re going to talk about is them. “Man, I’m here to have a meeting and make this money.” “No, everything flows through relationships. Let me ask you a question,” is what I used to say to them. “If you show nine minutes of undivided attention into somebody, do you think you might read one minute of undivided attention?” “Yeah.” “okay. All you need to say is going to take one minute. I am going to teach you what you are going to say in your one minute.” “Okay. All right.”</p> <p>“What’ that going to be? Depends on what it is you’re taking out there and what it is you are raising your capital for. Basically, it’s the same whether you’re for-profit or nonprofit. I know I just met you last Wednseday. I am so honored you are sitting here in front of me and you gave me this time. I promised you ten minutes. I have a minute and a half. I can do it in that maount of time. This is what I am working on. I have committed my life to it. I am not quitting until it happens. W are building an incredible team. The plan is getting ever-evolving. As you know, all plans change. We are so proud of our plan. Where we’re at right now, wee’re at like 10k, 10.5. 10k shy of our first phase of development. Who do you know that might be interested in digging water wells in Africa?” Assuming that that is that person’s mission. And you shut up. The first person to talk now loses. And you smile. You sit there for ten minues. They are the one holding this meeting any longer because they aren’t talking. You just smile. You sit there. They will come back.</p> <p>Money always says, “So what are you offering?” If you are an onprofit, that is way too easy an answer. A chance to earn some human interest, do some good for mankind, and give a tax deduction. That’s all that it’s looking for. Nonprofit money, that’s all it’s looking for. The question is, what are you offering? Is what you are doing for mankind btter than what it is presently doing for mankind? That’s only convincing to the money if it’s sold out ha you are sold out. How sold out are you? You just told them you committed your life to bringing this to pass. You are doing everything. You hav ben building this fortune-level team. You have a fortune-level plan. That’s another key word to throw in there. Those words represent that you’re professional. You’re not messing around. They are not going to stop and go, “Can I see your executive summary?” You are not talking about fifty or one hundred thousand or a million dollars. “I find three people at $333 a piece. We’re there.”</p> <p>If you’re for-profit, then the person is going to turn to you and dsay, “What are you offering?” You’re going to say, “We are offering a convertible promissory note. It’s saying 1% simple interest per month, 12% per year. Can you get that at your bank?” “No.” No, you can’t get anything close to that at your bank, can you? “No.” “What are you saying about a convertible?” “We’re getting ready to raise capital. During that cycle of a one-year offering, if somebody wants their money back at a payment, we will pay it back to you.”</p> <p>The people on the call are going, “Where am I getting the 12% interest?”</p> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p> </p> <p> </p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Creating Diversity on a Board of Directors</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/creating-diversity-on-a-board-of-directors</link>
      <description>Here's the Transcript 
 Dr. William Lewis, earned a doctoral degree from Indiana University, and a master's degree and a bachelor's degree from Indiana University Purdue University. He also completed the management development program from Harvard Institutes for Higher Education and he completed the Indiana University Lilly Family School of Philanthropy: The Fundraising School Certificate of Fundraising Management. 
 Dr. Lewis is a Thought Leader in the Diversity and Inclusion space. He has authored several articles, most notably, he was one of three co-authors of the historic Standards of Professional Practice for the Chief Diversity Officers  (CDO), published by the National Association of Diversity Officers in Higher Education (NADOHE).  He is on the editorial board for INSIGHT into Diversity. Dr. Lewis teaches concepts of oppression and privilege regularly to students enrolled in his MSW level courses. 
 Dr. Lewis has lead diversity and inclusion efforts at three highly acclaimed universities, Indiana University, Bridgewater State University and Virginia Tech University. Throughout his career Lewis has provided administrative leadership for diversity and inclusion initiatives. He has been an advisor and consultant to university presidents, provosts and college deans.
 You can learn more about Dr. Lewis and his work at http://www.zeroinhrsolutions.com 
  
 Dr. Thyonne Gordon is an accomplished organizational &amp; human development expert, producer and story genius. Her work with small businesses has created growth-oriented platforms using her proven technique of the S.T.O.R.Y. Acceleratorô and empowered hundreds of organizations nationwide.
 Dr. Gordon’s ability to shed light on causes that bring positive impact is evidenced in the piece, From Watts to Africa, showcased in the 2015 Pan African Film Festival. This film highlights the journey of 17 inner city youth traveling to Africa with the organization, Foundation For Second Chances and the impact this leadership program had on their life.
 Featured writer in Chicken Soup for the African American Soul; and ghost writer on several projects including a recent collaboration with Grammy nominated recording artist Chanteí Moore.
 Dr. Gordon’s gifts in bringing stories of significance to light and enhancing organizations for success, is unparalleled. She has also raised millions of dollars for causes and is committed to positive, strategic and sustainable growth in the social profit sector. With several accolades and awards for her work, Dr. Gordon is most proud of her service in board leadership and received a gubernatorial appointment to the California Naturopathic Board of Directors in 2014; was voted board Chairperson of Pacifica Graduate Institute in Santa Barbara in 2015 and recently received the 44th President of the United States, Lifetime Achievement Award for distinguished service.
 Residing in Los Angeles, she encourages youth and adults alike to "bloom where you’re planted.”
  
 You can learn more about Dr. Gordon and her work by visiting www.drthyonne.com 
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 24 Sep 2017 10:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8106bfbc-b329-11eb-9f0f-17b66f7640c1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Dr. Thyonne Gordon and Dr. William Lewis Share Ideas That Can Be Implemented </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Here's the Transcript 
 Dr. William Lewis, earned a doctoral degree from Indiana University, and a master's degree and a bachelor's degree from Indiana University Purdue University. He also completed the management development program from Harvard Institutes for Higher Education and he completed the Indiana University Lilly Family School of Philanthropy: The Fundraising School Certificate of Fundraising Management. 
 Dr. Lewis is a Thought Leader in the Diversity and Inclusion space. He has authored several articles, most notably, he was one of three co-authors of the historic Standards of Professional Practice for the Chief Diversity Officers  (CDO), published by the National Association of Diversity Officers in Higher Education (NADOHE).  He is on the editorial board for INSIGHT into Diversity. Dr. Lewis teaches concepts of oppression and privilege regularly to students enrolled in his MSW level courses. 
 Dr. Lewis has lead diversity and inclusion efforts at three highly acclaimed universities, Indiana University, Bridgewater State University and Virginia Tech University. Throughout his career Lewis has provided administrative leadership for diversity and inclusion initiatives. He has been an advisor and consultant to university presidents, provosts and college deans.
 You can learn more about Dr. Lewis and his work at http://www.zeroinhrsolutions.com 
  
 Dr. Thyonne Gordon is an accomplished organizational &amp; human development expert, producer and story genius. Her work with small businesses has created growth-oriented platforms using her proven technique of the S.T.O.R.Y. Acceleratorô and empowered hundreds of organizations nationwide.
 Dr. Gordon’s ability to shed light on causes that bring positive impact is evidenced in the piece, From Watts to Africa, showcased in the 2015 Pan African Film Festival. This film highlights the journey of 17 inner city youth traveling to Africa with the organization, Foundation For Second Chances and the impact this leadership program had on their life.
 Featured writer in Chicken Soup for the African American Soul; and ghost writer on several projects including a recent collaboration with Grammy nominated recording artist Chanteí Moore.
 Dr. Gordon’s gifts in bringing stories of significance to light and enhancing organizations for success, is unparalleled. She has also raised millions of dollars for causes and is committed to positive, strategic and sustainable growth in the social profit sector. With several accolades and awards for her work, Dr. Gordon is most proud of her service in board leadership and received a gubernatorial appointment to the California Naturopathic Board of Directors in 2014; was voted board Chairperson of Pacifica Graduate Institute in Santa Barbara in 2015 and recently received the 44th President of the United States, Lifetime Achievement Award for distinguished service.
 Residing in Los Angeles, she encourages youth and adults alike to "bloom where you’re planted.”
  
 You can learn more about Dr. Gordon and her work by visiting www.drthyonne.com 
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Here's the Transcript </strong></p> <p><strong>Dr. William Lewis</strong>, earned a doctoral degree from Indiana University, and a master's degree and a bachelor's degree from Indiana University Purdue University. He also completed the management development program from Harvard Institutes for Higher Education and he completed the Indiana University Lilly Family School of Philanthropy: The Fundraising School Certificate of Fundraising Management. </p> <p>Dr. Lewis is a Thought Leader in the Diversity and Inclusion space. He has authored several articles, most notably, he was one of three co-authors of the historic Standards of Professional Practice for the Chief Diversity Officers  (CDO), published by the National Association of Diversity Officers in Higher Education (NADOHE).  He is on the editorial board for INSIGHT into Diversity. Dr. Lewis teaches concepts of oppression and privilege regularly to students enrolled in his MSW level courses. </p> <p>Dr. Lewis has lead diversity and inclusion efforts at three highly acclaimed universities, Indiana University, Bridgewater State University and Virginia Tech University. Throughout his career Lewis has provided administrative leadership for diversity and inclusion initiatives. He has been an advisor and consultant to university presidents, provosts and college deans.</p> <p>You can learn more about Dr. Lewis and his work at <a href="http://www.zeroinhrsolutions.com/">http://www.zeroinhrsolutions.com</a> </p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Dr. Thyonne Gordon</strong> is an accomplished organizational &amp; human development expert, producer and story genius. Her work with small businesses has created growth-oriented platforms using her proven technique of the S.T.O.R.Y. Acceleratorô and empowered hundreds of organizations nationwide.</p> <p>Dr. Gordon’s ability to shed light on causes that bring positive impact is evidenced in the piece, From Watts to Africa, showcased in the 2015 Pan African Film Festival. This film highlights the journey of 17 inner city youth traveling to Africa with the organization, Foundation For Second Chances and the impact this leadership program had on their life.</p> <p>Featured writer in Chicken Soup for the African American Soul; and ghost writer on several projects including a recent collaboration with Grammy nominated recording artist Chanteí Moore.</p> <p>Dr. Gordon’s gifts in bringing stories of significance to light and enhancing organizations for success, is unparalleled. She has also raised millions of dollars for causes and is committed to positive, strategic and sustainable growth in the social profit sector. With several accolades and awards for her work, Dr. Gordon is most proud of her service in board leadership and received a gubernatorial appointment to the California Naturopathic Board of Directors in 2014; was voted board Chairperson of Pacifica Graduate Institute in Santa Barbara in 2015 and recently received the 44th President of the United States, Lifetime Achievement Award for distinguished service.</p> <p>Residing in Los Angeles, she encourages youth and adults alike to "bloom where you’re planted.”</p> <p> </p> <p>You can learn more about Dr. Gordon and her work by visiting <a href="http://www.drthyonne.com/">www.drthyonne.com </a></p> <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Engaging Your Board in Funds Sourcing </title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/engaging-your-board-in-funds-sourcing</link>
      <description>Giselle Jones-Jones shares her wisdom on engaging board members in fund sourcing.
 Here's the Transcript
 Russell Dennis: Welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange brought to you by SynerVision Leadership Foundation. I am your host, Russell Dennis. Thank you for joining us. Our guest today is Dr. A Giselle Jones. She is the founder of The Write Source, technical writing and consultation services. She is a writing advocate for community leaders, pastors, administrators, and the like, all sorts of nonprofit entities. She is here to share her expertise with us today. Thank you, Giselle. Welcome. Glad to have you here.
 Giselle Jones-Jones: I am glad to be here.
 Russell: All right. So Giselle, tell us a little bit more about the woman underneath the cloak.
 Giselle: I see myself standing like Wonder Woman with my cape flying in the wind.
 Russell: Tell us about your superpowers here.
 Giselle: I’ll tell ya, I am empowered by the people whom I have had the privilege to write for and to work for. They are really the wind beneath my wings. I can’t claim any of the success on my own. It’s because I have been in the right place and been equipped to be the right person for these people. I like the way you emphasize The Write Source before because that is exactly what I do. The w-r-i-t-e. I do the writing. We’ll talk a little bit more about that in just a little bit.
 But the woman underneath the cloak, the woman wearing the mask, the woman who is in the background. Again, my name is Giselle Jones-Jones. I am a Jones twice. I married a Jones. I have ben writing now, filling the majority of my professional life, and how I demonstrate that in my day job, so to speak, is as a teacher. I am a professor of English, of literature, public speaking, so that is my day job, and that is what gives me my passion. My students give me my passion. I do that and have been doing it since 1990. That tells my age, Lord have mercy. But I have been doing that for many years, and I learned my greatest lesson. I once heard that the teacher is twice taught. Again, I look at everything really as a privilege, and I take everything that I do as building blocks to do the next thing. Teaching, that gives me what I need to do what I do in my evening job, in my weekend job, in the-extra-time-that-I-have job, which is working for the nonprofit, which is working for the charity or the ministry or the professionals who have a desire in their hearts to do something to make a change in their community.
 Where I come in is exactly how I see my students. My students on the first day of English 101: Composition, “I hate to write. I don’t want to do it.” I have to struggle with them throughout the semester. On the other end of it, they are happy for the journey. But it’s the same thing with the charities, with nonprofits. There is this fear, there is this force that is in the air, and they absolutely fear the writing process. Preparing that proposal just causes dread and so they have a desire to do something in the community. They want to do something great, but they often stop in their tracks. When they face that in order to write a grant, it needs to read well, etc, they come looking for the grant writer, that person, and that has been me for organizations again who I have been privileged to work with as a freelance writer.
 I created The Write Source to cover me as the freelance grant writer, and that is how I have operated over the course of these 20+ years that I have been The Write Source. Meeting Hugh on August 26—that was just a little over two weeks ago—founder and president of SynerVision, opened my eyes to the possibilities that I was working out this summer and building of the infrastructure of my company to duplicate myself a few more times so that I can reach more people and help more people. Again, this opportunity today is a blessing. The past two weeks dealing with Hugh, I have been on a rollercoaster ride already. It’s been fantastic because it’s putting me in a place of impact to help people more, for me to do more and to build upon what I’m doing even more.
 That is a little bit of who I am. I’m a mother of three. I have two in college, both of my two girls, and I have a boy who is 12. I’m a wife of a wonderful man who is a musician like Hugh and a director. Again, I am privileged to be his wife. Here I am, before you now. I have shared a little bit about my passion, what makes me get up, what is my mission for life, walking in my purpose, walking in my destiny, all of that.
 Russell: I’m glad to have you here just looking at your bio. You are a tenured professor at just about every university in the state of Carolina.
 Giselle: Oh, stop.
 Russell: Your client list reads like a who’s who. It’s phenomenal. More hands makes the work lighter.
 Giselle: That’s right.
 Russell: I’ve been a part of this SynerVision team and signed on as the first WayFinder. We have been building momentum and now things are starting to take off. It’s really great to have expertise to leverage because you can do more. A lot of nonprofits feel like they’re alone. How much does that play into the struggle that people have with writing grants? I know that a lot of times, at my first nonprofit job, my first day on the job, the travel planner came and dropped a package on my desk from the Department of Education and said, “I’ve seen your writing sample. You’ll do okay. I’m right next door if you need some help.” I had never written a grant. Talk a little bit about that intimidation that most people have and what makes it seem like such a difficult process for most folks to achieve.
 Giselle: You said it. I mean there is nothing more dreaded than being given the RFP coming from a federal grant that requires 20-25 pages of information, demographic studies, all those things you have to do, plus giving a face and a personality to the organization. That is a lot. The fact that you were a gifted writer helps, but think about those who lack the skills to write. They feel alone. They feel like they’re on an island by themselves, and again, those grants go often unwritten. That’s money that that organization did not get because people stop in their tracks. It’s for that very reason it is dumped on one person’s desk, and that one person feels it is his/her job to do it by him/herself. That is wrong.
 The team approach is absolutely the best way to go about this. I think that the idea that you offer grant-writing workshops and support the grant writer, that is promoting it the wrong way. It has to come from the point of view that a team effort, with the grant writer sitting at the helm delegating responsibilities—Yes, that can be that person’s role, but that person needs the help of experts across the board everywhere from just even designing the document itself. You need someone who goes and gathers the information. All of these pieces go walking past the background in accounting who can put together that top-notch budget that is tight and that is ready to go. All of those elements for one person to handle, who is a gifted writer but may not have the expertise in those other areas, can get overwhelming.
 Again, having those people on board, having those people who are trained and equipped and ready to contribute to the team, is the best way to approach grant-writing or proposal-writing, period. That body of people, really from the standpoint of all funds development, all funds, all resources, from not proposal-writing because you can’t put all your eggs in one basket either, that team will follow the organization and work with that organization, with donors, with sponsors, with all of that because the same documentation is needed, the same writing is needed. That team of people who are equipped and ready to help the nonprofit, the charity, the ministry, they follow them from beginning to end and let them know they’re not alone. That is overcoming that particular person who is given that file on the desk, that RFP. No, if that does happen, that person sitting at that desk should pick up the phone and call that team and call a meeting and let’s go over this. Let’s look at this and delegate. Let’s look at who needs to do what so we can pull this together.
 Russell: Our first question came from Jolyn. She asked, “Do you know of any grant funding for a holistic healer or complementary healing services for PTSD?”
 Giselle: Oh my goodness. I would think that there will be federal funding, and I do have a list of those from the Center of Disease Control, federal dollars that go toward those military who have suffered. There is funding, yes, there is. As a matter of fact, I am going to keep searching for that, and I will make that available. I think there is a chat forum on here, and I will type those in as I find them. Yes, there are federal dollars that are available for that, yes.
 Russell: We will get those in there to you.
 Giselle: Yes.
 Russell: There we are. We’ve got a phone number for Karen. There is information we can follow up with in the chat. I have put the web address in the Facebook chat and the Zoom chat forums: http://www.thewritesource.org. That is where you can reach Dr. Jones. As always, our lines are open for more questions. Jolyn already has a 501(c)3 set up, and she knows about practitioners. There are some people that I want to put Jolyn in touch with who are doing different types of things, nontraditional and complementary healing. I will put her in touch with some other people online.
 My next question is that you have been working. I know you met Hugh a couple of weeks ago, and you have been talking about setting up what you call an office of funds development and collaboration. This is something that other nonprofits can do for themselves. Tell us a little bit about setting that type of thing up.
 Giselle: Especially because Hugh approaches what he does through SynerVision with the team approach, team is very important. So having a funds development office is really the next step in line for what he needs to do. It takes the pressure off of him so that he can continue to be creative, so that he can continue to do his workshops, his symposiums, but to have this particular office to continue to fund what he does as he helps organizations and boards fund what they do, the team approach handling how they go about procuring and sustaining their funds, this particular office would be the liaison between the workshops and the symposiums that are held to local implementation. This office would provide guidance after they have received the trainings. this particular office will follow them.
 And it’s got two branches, two arms. It will continue to fund the endeavors of SynerVision because its vision is large. Its vision is still evolving. That one side is important. But then those whom SynerVision develops and trains, they will continue support. This office will be here to stay ahead of the game with resources, with staying trained and relevant and current about what is being offered to charities and nonprofits across the board because again people have various needs and they are trying to impact change in their local communities in various ways. This office will be equipped to be the support for both sides, for SynerVision and for those whom they serve and develop and train. It is still a work in progress.
 Again, this is a two-week relationship that is blossoming, so we’re putting some meat on the bones per se, so that is where we are at this point. It is exciting. Hugh and I are talking every day. He says, “Giselle, what do you think about this? I am going to put these ideas together. Let’s put a proposal together to begin to make this happen because it needs to happen.” That is where we are as far as that is concerned. This particular office is critically important. It seems like a natural next step for SynerVision to have this particular office available.
 Russell: And it is. The work here that SynerVision is doing is designed to help nonprofits increase their capacity to serve others. Training and development is very important. It’s something that will attract people to you to serve on your board and for volunteers. Having a process, we’re all about helping put processes together that will empower you to work more efficiently, that will tell you to go off and find others to collaborate with. Fundraising is like a lot of other things. My whole role is to help nonprofits build high-performance organizations.
 There are four steps to that, and the first is having a solid foundation where you look at all of the things that you have. You look at all of your assets. You look at what you want to try to do and what you want to try to achieve. As you bring people in, you find out what drives them, what makes the work important to them. Once you understand why you’re doing what you’re doing, you can start putting a solid foundation.
 Talk a little bit about the importance of an overall strategy. I’ve seen a lot of organizations go out and take a scattershot approach where they are applying for grants, they are looking at pockets of funding and saying to themselves, “Oh my God, that’s a lot of money. Maybe we can go after this.” But they don’t stop to look at whether that particular funding source is the right one.
 Giselle: That’s exactly right. Again, the process is very important. I believe the gift that I have is making sure the voice of the organization tells the story. It is what draws the potential donor to them, which gives value both ways, which shows why the organization is so important and why they are so important to do the work they want to do in their community, and why it won’t be done any other way. It’s important then to connect with the potential donor that has the same value that in giving their money and making a contribution, they will be a part of that value. That I think is important, but what I do and have done is to go and pull the voice out of the organization. Who are you? It’s activating voice.
 I came up with my own class that I’ll be teaching that is called Voice Activated. It is. It’s just that. Who are you? What is it that you want to do? Whose lives are you trying to impact? First, you have to know your purpose. Everybody wants grants. I get phone calls every day, “I need a grant. I need you to write a grant.” Okay. Why? Let’s back up. Let’s take a couple of steps back because you can’t go find the grant first and then write the grant to it. You have to have a purpose first. You have to know who you are first. You need to have in mind the person or the thing that is being impacted. You create a story around that. Those are the steps.
 You begin with you have to know who you are, and then we can look at- You have an idea, you know what it is you want to do in the community, you go from idea to how it is going to impact the community. You then look at, if given the money, if you get the funds, who is going to implement it. What is that going to look like? How are you going to sustain yourself if you don’t get that grant funding? What happens after that? Do you have a sustainability plan in place? from idea all the way to sustainability with implementation in there as well, those are the necessary steps it takes, but where we spend the most time is that first base. We have to know who we are, why you’re doing it, and thinking long-term or short-term and then long-term. Coming up with that kind of strategy, sitting with the organization, hashing that out will help. We can’t do anything else until we know who we are. That is exactly how I teach my classes. That is how I teach those first steps in composition. You have to know who you are. Once you can find that out, I can tap into that voice and help to create your story, to create the emotional attachment. All those things that go along with pulling people into knowing why that particular idea or why that particular act of service is so important.
 Russell: That’s it. That is the second step of how to develop a high-performance nonprofit: creating an effective action plan. Once you look at what you’re trying to do, it’s a matter of, Okay, what do we need to do first? And breaking it down into simpler steps. It’s really important to be clear on who you are. Then you measure everything you do. This is probably a place where a lot of organizations struggle because they got an idea for what they want to accomplish, but they are not exactly sure how they want to measure it. There are two things. The third step of building a high-performance nonprofit is staying on track. When it comes to your programs, there is an evaluation component. That is an essential piece of every grant and of developing programs. A lot of people don’t account for resources to do evaluation when they have put a proposal together. The other piece is benchmarking, which is, Okay, how do we compare to other nonprofits doing similar work in the same industry? How are we doing comparatively? Talk a little bit about that, about measuring what you do and how to quantify that because some people look at their work and say, Well, we can’t really put it in the dinner table on the spreadsheet, but you still have to show some results.
 Giselle: That’s right. That part is very important. That is what stops people at first base. Because that is a very integral part, the objectives, you have to have clear objectives that can be measured. Those things, as a part of the proposal writing process, have to be considered while we are sitting at the table: how we want to measure this, what are the outcomes, what are the expected outcomes, and then what we want those variables that we use in order to test it. A lot of people, a lot of organizations that I work with, only think short-term.
 They are very short-sighted and think they want to do a program for only one year when they are working with students to help improve their ELG scores, for instance. Okay. How are we going to know whether or not what you have done as far as the programmatic have impacted these young people? How are you going to test that from year to year? Are you going to follow them for just one year after they have successfully perhaps passed the ELGs their first year? Or are you going to continue to follow them until they graduate? Those are things you have to consider. Then you are addressing subliminally how long your program is going to be, from one year to four years perhaps to eight years to follow with that. All of those steps in between of parents being an active part, they have a great deal to do with whether or not the objectives are being met because they see things as concerns that say that program that involves those children you are trying to help improve those scores, parents see things at home. They need to see some things changing at home. Organizations in a community, they also have input on seeing the growth and development of that child.
 There are many things to consider as you think about evaluating these programs. That is what we consider at the beginning: How do you draft an objective that can be measured? What other evaluation tools will be there? Yes, sir, those are very important parts of the proposal process that have to be discussed up front. Having a team there to contribute also helps, not just one person trying to think of all of these things themselves. Having the team approach helps.
 Russell: It does, it does, it does. It’s a long-term plan; the sustainability and the funding should be thought of in terms of taking a long view. What will happen over the course of time. This is pretty critical. A lot of people struggle with that. Some do, some don’t. You teach people how to go about working these processes in. Tell us a little bit about how you approach teaching people to quantify that because quantifying it and talking about how you measure- The fourth piece of building a high-performance nonprofit is communicating the value that you bring to people. That plays into getting people to bet on your team and to fund you, looking at what is that value and how do you communicate that in terms that are important to the funder?
 Giselle: Wow. Again, you have touched on something that involves a mindset shift. I say that because every organization has to develop a culture of giving, a culture of fundraising, a culture that supports at all odds giving what is needed in order to operationalize that particular idea. From understanding what philanthropy means, understanding that the culture involves even on the board level that boards have to be involved in the process of thinking through what their fiduciary responsibility, why it’s so important even for them to give to the idea because buy-in is difficult if the board doesn’t support it 100%. Being able to quantify the value is a complete and total buy-in from everyone who is internal to the organization. That is a mindset shift. It is a culture that has to be cultivated. It has to have been there and sitting around the table making sure that everyone understands the value of the organization, understands the value of that particular community of people because again, yeah, we can quantify numbers. But those numbers represent people, and those people are the ones that have the issues. Understanding and feeling out why it is so important to activate that voice and being able to connect on a donor level to the individuals being impacted is important. The organization, the people in that organization, the board and the members, all those who are a part are a part of something else bigger and greater happening. Those kinds of things, when they are happening and filled with momentum, it is easier to get the kind of quantifiable results that we are talking about. It is easier to begin to do that, and where the community is seeing it through everything that is written and written well through the newsletters, through all these things that are showing people what is happening, they are constantly involved. That is also creating a culture around that particular organization. The more that they know about what’s happening, the greater the instances they will continue to give. That organization is not just a one-time giving opportunity. You want this to be a sustained relationship in that good or bad you have where we need to grow, you have the stakeholders meeting. Those kinds of things need to constantly happen so that it will increase opportunities for organizations and charities to give. That is what I see as far as that is concerned.
 My particular experience over the years is being the lone ranger so to speak, being that lone grant writer and desiring to have a team around me that I can continue to train in the classroom is one thing, but in my business, to have that as I have been working with these people over the years, I understand why it’s so important now. Being that lone ranger, like you said earlier, receiving all of these grants and all of these people who want that services by myself, is daunting. It is very overwhelming. Understanding why it is so important to have a team to surround the board, the team to surround the individual who is interested in making an impact in the community, is so very important. I am glad for that question because that speaks to the heart of getting the kinds of results and those statistics that will grow and follow that organization so that they stay open and ready to continue to receive the funding that they need. That is what you read often. I read an article just recently that said before you become a nonprofit, read this. Don’t do it. Find other ways to do it because it is daunting, it is overwhelming if you think that there is only one way to go about funding, and you are trying to do it on your own. This is an excellent question for the culture has to be developed. A culture for philanthropy, a culture for giving.
 Russell: It is. I just got another question from Jolyn. She says that, “I have been a lone ranger for too long and am ready to create a team and need to know where to start.”
 Giselle: Tell her to call me. My number is- hahaha. Jolyn, will you be on my team? She needs first of all, and I am building my infrastructure as well. In putting myself out there, I am attracted to so many people who have such great gifts. But you need some skilled writers on your team. You have to duplicate yourself at least three or four times. You need to have a few people who are skilled. You also need to have someone who is your accountant, someone who is good at putting together a budget. That is a very big part of this. Then someone who understands data. Your question about being able to measure growth, you need people who are experienced in that to be on your team; someone who can look at data management is a critical role. Having someone who deals with that, and then it would not hurt to have a good fundraiser, someone who can sell you the bottled water that you already have beside you. There are some people who are just gifted at that. But to have someone who doesn’t mind going out and being the face of the organization, you need someone like that. just a few people around you, and then you will continue to grow.
 It wouldn’t hurt for you to also consider some interns. Get interns. I launched an internship and had the pleasure of working with some dynamite young people. I have worked many places, so it wasn’t difficult for me to make a couple of phone calls and get some recommendations for some young people who are gifted. The areas that I used them is not just for writing, but I also began to train them in sales. I had a young person who was my PR representative. She was fantastic. Then another one who was very good at technology and web design. Those things help. Then all of them being part of this younger millennial generation, they were all social-media savvy. That helped. Someone who is gifted at that as well. All those key parts were to help the organization because all those things are needed to help put them into the forefront of the community. Jolyn, call me. We can talk. We can continue to talk.
 Russell: Make sure you get the number. Giselle can put that number in the chat. Another question that Jolyn had was: How do I get people to come on board when I don’t have funds to pay them? Giselle covered some of that masterfully. There are opportunities out there where you have students, internships. There are opportunities to get pro bono work if you have an idea how to do that. Worth exploring pro bono as a means. Pro bono is not great for anything you need in a hurry, but pro bono is another opportunity for you to get services. When the whole concept of pro bono was launched, it was centered around the legal profession. But any type of professional organization or any type of profession almost bar none today, you can find some organizations that do pro bono work. That is something that you can talk with Giselle about. I’d be happy to talk with you about that if you have questions on that as well. That is very important. Thank you for that.
 Giselle: Fantastic.
 Russell: The word “culture” is something that you used. I read a study that was centered around funding. They took a sample of about 2,700 nonprofits of all sizes to find out what sort of fundraising practices they had. There was a lot of reliance on the development director, or there is a single person that a lot of them rely on, usually the development director. This person, they didn’t all have processes set up because fundraising is an all-hands-on-deck adventure for nonprofit. Oftentimes, it’s left to one person, and there is not what they call a culture of fundraising, which is having everybody that is associated with the organization participate in that. It starts with leadership, particularly your board of directors. Talk a little bit about that importance of having your leadership be involved and how a culture of fundraising can help you be more sustainable.
 Giselle: Another excellent question. Having all of your leadership on board is critically important. I believe that the buy-in that can be shown on the outside is critically important. Culture has to do with personality also, the personality of the organization. You attract people who are most like you. The organization itself as you embark upon events in the community and those things that you want to help promote the idea that you have, it is best to operate as the team and not just a one-person show. That is not the way it should be handled. I appreciate the study that you’ve mentioned and that you increase your opportunities to be successful when you are approaching it from the partnership, from the group approach, as opposed to that lone ranger. You increase your opportunities. That is what is really all about. Even the collaboration between organizations that are like-minded shows that you really have the community at the center of what you’re doing and not just your individual organization, but you’re wanting to collaborate, you’re wanting to partner. That in and of itself can change a community. The personality of the community as well, knowing that people are there to help them, people are there who do care about their particular needs. Those things are important. Yes, operating as a board, being trained as a board, going together to receive the same knowledge, puts them all in a better position to make a greater impact. I agree wholeheartedly with that study. I have not read that, but I agree with it wholeheartedly. I do. I am messing up my screen, Russ. Do you see something over here to the right?
 Russell: No, I don’t. You haven’t shared your screen with the audience, so you’re okay. Culture of fundraising, there are a lot of different types of cultural mindsets. One is a culture of innovation. That is an organization that always wants to try new things. A culture of learning. That is an organization that invests in development, in building your people. That is the opportunity you have to offer some of your volunteers, or as we like to call them, servant leaders. Development, and it can be training in a specific area that is of interest to them. These are things, when you don’t have cash that you can offer development opportunities, you can offer opportunities for people to exercise their creativity and build a portfolio. It would be a wonderful opportunity for a student of marketing to come in and build a social media strategy.
 Giselle: Oh my goodness, yes.
 Russell: They get to put that in their portfolio, and you get some expertise from people that are learning. You have undergraduate students who can work as interns, and you have graduate students that can work as fellows for more robust studies and this type of thing. The opportunity to get support really rests in what people value.
 The word “value” is something that more people associate with business. I don’t hear people talking in terms of value. When somebody sets up a profit-making business, they do it to deliver something of value that people will pay for, that they can offer at a profit. This is what we’re doing. We have to operate at a profit, and it’s called surplus in nonprofit circles. The bottom line is the same regardless of your tax status. If more money goes out the door than comes in, you’re done. Or after a period of time. It’s about sustainability and keeping the steady flow of funds coming in.
 A lot of people look at grants, but there are so many funds to come in through other means, too. Grants are something that people associate with nonprofits, but when you get in-kind services, such as pro bono, that is a different matter. You get sponsorship. Individual donations come in a lot of forms. There are current checks. But individuals may plan for when they are away, they want to leave a legacy. So you have planned giving. You have capital campaigns. You have all sorts of things. There are a lot of things that you can do. It’s important to have a diverse base of funds. But you have got to build relationships to get those. A lot of people think in terms of grants.
 Giselle, what sort of things have you done with people that you go in to write grants for to help them be more sustainable? I know when people talk to you initially a lot of times they are thinking in terms of grant funds. But there are other options. How do you help people explore those other options?
 Giselle: Let’s say that first grant is not funded, or somehow something happens and they don’t get their 501(c)3 in time, they wonder what they can do in the interim. Well, in those cases, I have worked with the organizations to partner with another organization with a 501(c)3 to serve as a fiscal sponsor. As a matter of fact, that occurred about a year and a half ago with an organization. They are just coming back from Brazil now, but the Global Missions Group has partnered with a church inside Silo City. Silo City is serving as a fiscal sponsor so that they would have the sponsorship they needed in order to write those grants. But they also have a very robust, as you say, board. They have each invested a certain amount so it could sustain those short trips that are taken in order for them to do the exploratory kinds of work because they build churches in Brazil. They do that to make sure those kinds of operations occur. Then they go out and seek those sponsorships, those people in the community and from the churches that are like-minded, that are missions-oriented, and they pledge those. They become their own rope. They have their *audio interruption* and they ask for donations that way. When you have something that is pressing, and the grant is low-hanging, it’s out there, you can’t get to it, but you know there are things you need to do, you have to get creative. Like you said, you have to be innovative. You have to come up with some creative ways quickly to go get what you need.
 That one organization, I want to use them as the exemplar. They are wonderful. They have come up with strategic partnerships. I have helped them to cultivate that and behind the scenes to create all the documentation they need in order to do it. But they have their street team. They go out and visit these churches. They carpool. They go where they need to go and to spread their particular program or the mission of their program, and they made it happen. Then grant dollars started coming in. But all of those things working in concert helped. They are one organization that made it work against all odds. They knew what they needed to do. They believe strongly that their particular organization has something to do for the building of God’s kingdom. They wanted to spread the word by building churches in places where the word is not shared. They were about business. They are two retired gentlemen. They knew that was their purpose, and they brought me on to help to be that person to help them find all of the resources necessary. We had all kinds of campaigns. They sold T-shirts. You name it, they did it. They used social media. They had the street team. They had their passion, their heart; they wore it on their sleeves. Everywhere they went, people gave. People gave because they believed and had evidence to show that they had done this and that more work needed to be done, that their mission is far from being over because there are still people who are unreached.
 That is an example of what is done in the face of not perhaps receiving that grant or when you are in waiting mode but there are people out there, organizations out there, who will serve as fiscal sponsors. You have those who come up with multiple fundraising ideas and then they began to implement those. The more passionate you are about what it is that you do, you have to be creative and think outside the box. That is where I come in to make sure that the written pieces, the documentation, follows their dreams, follows their action plan, follows everything.
 The sustainability part, that was a part of your question as well. On the other end, sustainability, to follow up reporting is important. People forget that, and their organizations end up being audited because they are not turning in the paperwork that is needed to follow up what they have done. You are funded, but then you have these periodic reports that have to be submitted. You have to show what you are accomplishing via newsletter, whatever it is to show the community and those people who have given what you’re doing. That has to continue. The Write Source has been that follow-up aid for technical writing as well. My work continues to follow the organization. I have done that with these organizations that I help. It doesn’t stop with getting the grant. You have to have a sustainability plan in place. You have to include in your budget those contractual fees that cover periodic evaluations. From the funders, you have to give way to them coming to visit your site. They are a part of the process. They are a part of your big picture once you see that funding. All of those pieces are important to understand upfront that just wanting a grant involves multiple layers. Understanding those layers will equip them to be able to receive it and continue to receive in the future. Yes, sir, you are exactly right.
 Russell: There is an awful lot packed in what you said. It really starts with, as you put things together, talking with people who you are going to serve, people who will pay for your programs. It’s really understanding what is important to people. Keep your measures down to the things that are most important. If you design the program carefully so that it’s not an extra burden on the people delivering services, but actually collect information, you will have more success, and there are ways to do that. This business of collaboration is going out and bringing other entities in. When you look at in your foundational process, the skills that you have on hand and the skills that you may have gaps with, that helps you bring collaborative partners because when you have core inner values that are alike, and you get these complementary skillsets, you can work together. Everybody is working to their strengths, not trying to fill weakness. Everybody is doing what they do best. That increases the leverage exponentially that you have working together to actually get some impact. It is critical to collaborate with other people in that way. Bring that impact forth. It’s a wonderful way to go about doing things. Working with other people is important. I did put Dr. Jones-Jones’ phone number in the chat.
 Giselle: Thank you.
 Russell: You have an onsite link for an automated calendar, don’t you? I want to put it out there on Facebook and in the chat so people can go to that automated scheduler and book time with you.
 Giselle: I am going to let that happen in a few minutes because I do want to make that available. Yes, sir.
 Russell: Automation is important. Technology is our friend when it works.
 Giselle: When it works, yes, sir.
 Russell: When it works, it’s a thing of beauty.
 Giselle: I see that she says she doesn’t see the phone number. Okay.
 Russell: I typed it in. Scroll up to about 12:44. I put it in about 13 minutes ago in the chat.
 Giselle: Okay.
 Russell: I can copy it again and put it up again.
 Giselle: Wait a minute, I see that.
 Russell: I will put it back in there because there have been a lot of comments in there and the feed has been scrolling away. That is how folks get ahold of you.
 It’s really been a pleasure. I’m thankful to all of our panelists, to all of our folks who have attended and asked a lot of great questions. There is a toll-free number there, 888-426-2792. I need to get that in the comment section of Facebook as well. This hour has gone very quickly. What sort of closing thoughts do you want to leave our audience with today?
 Giselle: Again, the need for a team approach to proposal writing, I can’t express that enough, having been one who has experienced the burden by herself, who has also been successful, and I’m thankful for that. Having worked with organizations and having them funded close to a million dollars speaks to the gift that I have and how I have been able to use it over the course of these 20 years. But I think having the team approach, now having more who are on the board, understanding how important it is, and even with the collaboration with Hugh and SynerVision, just how many more people we are going to be able to impact. I am excited about those possibilities.
 I am excited about this collaboration with SynerVision because I know that he is moving forward, and you are moving forward, Russell. I believe that our paths, this is destiny. You are already on that path, and my path has joined yours. You are moving forward and upward. You are impacting people. Now utilizing the skillset that I have, I believe that we are going to really make a difference in a lot of people’s lives. The world needs us. A lot of people are hurting in the world.
 I do believe that at the heart of nonprofits and the heart of charities, they do have a heart for the people. That is how I see myself. I am a person who helps the people who want to help. What greater legacy could one leave in knowing that I have given myself and my life and my skillset I was given- I have been given this skillset. To be able to use it in a way, a meaningful way, to help organizations that have this fear of writing these proposals and understanding that is just one of many ways to go about giving the resources, now being a part of SynerVision and helping to create this infrastructure that will be there to support the people that come through SynerVision and are trained and the local implementation to know that you have a god in between to help make that happen. I couldn’t be happier. I couldn’t feel any more in position and aligned to do greater things. I tell my students all the time, “Just use me.” I know that’s bad. But I am at that place. “Just use me.” Use me. I am a student. I am still learning. As a matter of fact, I learned a great deal on this podcast today from you, Russell. I stand greater because of this experience. I am humbly here. I am one who is willing to serve. I am here.
 Russell: Dr. Giselle Jones. It’s really been a pleasure to have you here. I am looking forward to working with you to serve other people. These phone numbers out here for those of you who are watching on Facebook and would like to speak with Giselle at greater length, 888-426-2792, toll-free. Or 336-681-1863, local, to Greensboro, North Carolina area. If you want to discuss other matters, you can book a discovery session with me. We can do it live or online. Go to bit.ly/bookruss. Get yourself on my calendar. Let’s talk.
 Synervision Leadership, we are building the community. We are building our online offerings. There will be much more to come. We will be doing live events in your area somewhere in 2018 as we roll out SynerVision, and we will have more webinars, online offerings, and such. Go to www.thewritesource.org for more information. This is Russ Dennis and Hugh Ballou thanking all of you who have joined us on Facebook. Be sure to tune in next week. We will have a panel on diversity where we will talk about diversity and how that strengthens nonprofits. Until next week on the Nonprofit Exchange, this is Russ Dennis.
 For those of you who are on Facebook and would care to join me, there is the Nonprofit Culture of Success show that we run weekly. That is something I host tomorrow. Dr. David Gruder is my guest. Next Wednesday, our own Hugh Ballou will be my guest. Thank you once again, and I look forward to seeing you again next week on the Nonprofit Exchange.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 17 Sep 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/812e3d94-b329-11eb-9f0f-b7d0a978b4eb/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Creating a Funds Development Office with Giselle Jones-Jones</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Giselle Jones-Jones shares her wisdom on engaging board members in fund sourcing.
 Here's the Transcript
 Russell Dennis: Welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange brought to you by SynerVision Leadership Foundation. I am your host, Russell Dennis. Thank you for joining us. Our guest today is Dr. A Giselle Jones. She is the founder of The Write Source, technical writing and consultation services. She is a writing advocate for community leaders, pastors, administrators, and the like, all sorts of nonprofit entities. She is here to share her expertise with us today. Thank you, Giselle. Welcome. Glad to have you here.
 Giselle Jones-Jones: I am glad to be here.
 Russell: All right. So Giselle, tell us a little bit more about the woman underneath the cloak.
 Giselle: I see myself standing like Wonder Woman with my cape flying in the wind.
 Russell: Tell us about your superpowers here.
 Giselle: I’ll tell ya, I am empowered by the people whom I have had the privilege to write for and to work for. They are really the wind beneath my wings. I can’t claim any of the success on my own. It’s because I have been in the right place and been equipped to be the right person for these people. I like the way you emphasize The Write Source before because that is exactly what I do. The w-r-i-t-e. I do the writing. We’ll talk a little bit more about that in just a little bit.
 But the woman underneath the cloak, the woman wearing the mask, the woman who is in the background. Again, my name is Giselle Jones-Jones. I am a Jones twice. I married a Jones. I have ben writing now, filling the majority of my professional life, and how I demonstrate that in my day job, so to speak, is as a teacher. I am a professor of English, of literature, public speaking, so that is my day job, and that is what gives me my passion. My students give me my passion. I do that and have been doing it since 1990. That tells my age, Lord have mercy. But I have been doing that for many years, and I learned my greatest lesson. I once heard that the teacher is twice taught. Again, I look at everything really as a privilege, and I take everything that I do as building blocks to do the next thing. Teaching, that gives me what I need to do what I do in my evening job, in my weekend job, in the-extra-time-that-I-have job, which is working for the nonprofit, which is working for the charity or the ministry or the professionals who have a desire in their hearts to do something to make a change in their community.
 Where I come in is exactly how I see my students. My students on the first day of English 101: Composition, “I hate to write. I don’t want to do it.” I have to struggle with them throughout the semester. On the other end of it, they are happy for the journey. But it’s the same thing with the charities, with nonprofits. There is this fear, there is this force that is in the air, and they absolutely fear the writing process. Preparing that proposal just causes dread and so they have a desire to do something in the community. They want to do something great, but they often stop in their tracks. When they face that in order to write a grant, it needs to read well, etc, they come looking for the grant writer, that person, and that has been me for organizations again who I have been privileged to work with as a freelance writer.
 I created The Write Source to cover me as the freelance grant writer, and that is how I have operated over the course of these 20+ years that I have been The Write Source. Meeting Hugh on August 26—that was just a little over two weeks ago—founder and president of SynerVision, opened my eyes to the possibilities that I was working out this summer and building of the infrastructure of my company to duplicate myself a few more times so that I can reach more people and help more people. Again, this opportunity today is a blessing. The past two weeks dealing with Hugh, I have been on a rollercoaster ride already. It’s been fantastic because it’s putting me in a place of impact to help people more, for me to do more and to build upon what I’m doing even more.
 That is a little bit of who I am. I’m a mother of three. I have two in college, both of my two girls, and I have a boy who is 12. I’m a wife of a wonderful man who is a musician like Hugh and a director. Again, I am privileged to be his wife. Here I am, before you now. I have shared a little bit about my passion, what makes me get up, what is my mission for life, walking in my purpose, walking in my destiny, all of that.
 Russell: I’m glad to have you here just looking at your bio. You are a tenured professor at just about every university in the state of Carolina.
 Giselle: Oh, stop.
 Russell: Your client list reads like a who’s who. It’s phenomenal. More hands makes the work lighter.
 Giselle: That’s right.
 Russell: I’ve been a part of this SynerVision team and signed on as the first WayFinder. We have been building momentum and now things are starting to take off. It’s really great to have expertise to leverage because you can do more. A lot of nonprofits feel like they’re alone. How much does that play into the struggle that people have with writing grants? I know that a lot of times, at my first nonprofit job, my first day on the job, the travel planner came and dropped a package on my desk from the Department of Education and said, “I’ve seen your writing sample. You’ll do okay. I’m right next door if you need some help.” I had never written a grant. Talk a little bit about that intimidation that most people have and what makes it seem like such a difficult process for most folks to achieve.
 Giselle: You said it. I mean there is nothing more dreaded than being given the RFP coming from a federal grant that requires 20-25 pages of information, demographic studies, all those things you have to do, plus giving a face and a personality to the organization. That is a lot. The fact that you were a gifted writer helps, but think about those who lack the skills to write. They feel alone. They feel like they’re on an island by themselves, and again, those grants go often unwritten. That’s money that that organization did not get because people stop in their tracks. It’s for that very reason it is dumped on one person’s desk, and that one person feels it is his/her job to do it by him/herself. That is wrong.
 The team approach is absolutely the best way to go about this. I think that the idea that you offer grant-writing workshops and support the grant writer, that is promoting it the wrong way. It has to come from the point of view that a team effort, with the grant writer sitting at the helm delegating responsibilities—Yes, that can be that person’s role, but that person needs the help of experts across the board everywhere from just even designing the document itself. You need someone who goes and gathers the information. All of these pieces go walking past the background in accounting who can put together that top-notch budget that is tight and that is ready to go. All of those elements for one person to handle, who is a gifted writer but may not have the expertise in those other areas, can get overwhelming.
 Again, having those people on board, having those people who are trained and equipped and ready to contribute to the team, is the best way to approach grant-writing or proposal-writing, period. That body of people, really from the standpoint of all funds development, all funds, all resources, from not proposal-writing because you can’t put all your eggs in one basket either, that team will follow the organization and work with that organization, with donors, with sponsors, with all of that because the same documentation is needed, the same writing is needed. That team of people who are equipped and ready to help the nonprofit, the charity, the ministry, they follow them from beginning to end and let them know they’re not alone. That is overcoming that particular person who is given that file on the desk, that RFP. No, if that does happen, that person sitting at that desk should pick up the phone and call that team and call a meeting and let’s go over this. Let’s look at this and delegate. Let’s look at who needs to do what so we can pull this together.
 Russell: Our first question came from Jolyn. She asked, “Do you know of any grant funding for a holistic healer or complementary healing services for PTSD?”
 Giselle: Oh my goodness. I would think that there will be federal funding, and I do have a list of those from the Center of Disease Control, federal dollars that go toward those military who have suffered. There is funding, yes, there is. As a matter of fact, I am going to keep searching for that, and I will make that available. I think there is a chat forum on here, and I will type those in as I find them. Yes, there are federal dollars that are available for that, yes.
 Russell: We will get those in there to you.
 Giselle: Yes.
 Russell: There we are. We’ve got a phone number for Karen. There is information we can follow up with in the chat. I have put the web address in the Facebook chat and the Zoom chat forums: http://www.thewritesource.org. That is where you can reach Dr. Jones. As always, our lines are open for more questions. Jolyn already has a 501(c)3 set up, and she knows about practitioners. There are some people that I want to put Jolyn in touch with who are doing different types of things, nontraditional and complementary healing. I will put her in touch with some other people online.
 My next question is that you have been working. I know you met Hugh a couple of weeks ago, and you have been talking about setting up what you call an office of funds development and collaboration. This is something that other nonprofits can do for themselves. Tell us a little bit about setting that type of thing up.
 Giselle: Especially because Hugh approaches what he does through SynerVision with the team approach, team is very important. So having a funds development office is really the next step in line for what he needs to do. It takes the pressure off of him so that he can continue to be creative, so that he can continue to do his workshops, his symposiums, but to have this particular office to continue to fund what he does as he helps organizations and boards fund what they do, the team approach handling how they go about procuring and sustaining their funds, this particular office would be the liaison between the workshops and the symposiums that are held to local implementation. This office would provide guidance after they have received the trainings. this particular office will follow them.
 And it’s got two branches, two arms. It will continue to fund the endeavors of SynerVision because its vision is large. Its vision is still evolving. That one side is important. But then those whom SynerVision develops and trains, they will continue support. This office will be here to stay ahead of the game with resources, with staying trained and relevant and current about what is being offered to charities and nonprofits across the board because again people have various needs and they are trying to impact change in their local communities in various ways. This office will be equipped to be the support for both sides, for SynerVision and for those whom they serve and develop and train. It is still a work in progress.
 Again, this is a two-week relationship that is blossoming, so we’re putting some meat on the bones per se, so that is where we are at this point. It is exciting. Hugh and I are talking every day. He says, “Giselle, what do you think about this? I am going to put these ideas together. Let’s put a proposal together to begin to make this happen because it needs to happen.” That is where we are as far as that is concerned. This particular office is critically important. It seems like a natural next step for SynerVision to have this particular office available.
 Russell: And it is. The work here that SynerVision is doing is designed to help nonprofits increase their capacity to serve others. Training and development is very important. It’s something that will attract people to you to serve on your board and for volunteers. Having a process, we’re all about helping put processes together that will empower you to work more efficiently, that will tell you to go off and find others to collaborate with. Fundraising is like a lot of other things. My whole role is to help nonprofits build high-performance organizations.
 There are four steps to that, and the first is having a solid foundation where you look at all of the things that you have. You look at all of your assets. You look at what you want to try to do and what you want to try to achieve. As you bring people in, you find out what drives them, what makes the work important to them. Once you understand why you’re doing what you’re doing, you can start putting a solid foundation.
 Talk a little bit about the importance of an overall strategy. I’ve seen a lot of organizations go out and take a scattershot approach where they are applying for grants, they are looking at pockets of funding and saying to themselves, “Oh my God, that’s a lot of money. Maybe we can go after this.” But they don’t stop to look at whether that particular funding source is the right one.
 Giselle: That’s exactly right. Again, the process is very important. I believe the gift that I have is making sure the voice of the organization tells the story. It is what draws the potential donor to them, which gives value both ways, which shows why the organization is so important and why they are so important to do the work they want to do in their community, and why it won’t be done any other way. It’s important then to connect with the potential donor that has the same value that in giving their money and making a contribution, they will be a part of that value. That I think is important, but what I do and have done is to go and pull the voice out of the organization. Who are you? It’s activating voice.
 I came up with my own class that I’ll be teaching that is called Voice Activated. It is. It’s just that. Who are you? What is it that you want to do? Whose lives are you trying to impact? First, you have to know your purpose. Everybody wants grants. I get phone calls every day, “I need a grant. I need you to write a grant.” Okay. Why? Let’s back up. Let’s take a couple of steps back because you can’t go find the grant first and then write the grant to it. You have to have a purpose first. You have to know who you are first. You need to have in mind the person or the thing that is being impacted. You create a story around that. Those are the steps.
 You begin with you have to know who you are, and then we can look at- You have an idea, you know what it is you want to do in the community, you go from idea to how it is going to impact the community. You then look at, if given the money, if you get the funds, who is going to implement it. What is that going to look like? How are you going to sustain yourself if you don’t get that grant funding? What happens after that? Do you have a sustainability plan in place? from idea all the way to sustainability with implementation in there as well, those are the necessary steps it takes, but where we spend the most time is that first base. We have to know who we are, why you’re doing it, and thinking long-term or short-term and then long-term. Coming up with that kind of strategy, sitting with the organization, hashing that out will help. We can’t do anything else until we know who we are. That is exactly how I teach my classes. That is how I teach those first steps in composition. You have to know who you are. Once you can find that out, I can tap into that voice and help to create your story, to create the emotional attachment. All those things that go along with pulling people into knowing why that particular idea or why that particular act of service is so important.
 Russell: That’s it. That is the second step of how to develop a high-performance nonprofit: creating an effective action plan. Once you look at what you’re trying to do, it’s a matter of, Okay, what do we need to do first? And breaking it down into simpler steps. It’s really important to be clear on who you are. Then you measure everything you do. This is probably a place where a lot of organizations struggle because they got an idea for what they want to accomplish, but they are not exactly sure how they want to measure it. There are two things. The third step of building a high-performance nonprofit is staying on track. When it comes to your programs, there is an evaluation component. That is an essential piece of every grant and of developing programs. A lot of people don’t account for resources to do evaluation when they have put a proposal together. The other piece is benchmarking, which is, Okay, how do we compare to other nonprofits doing similar work in the same industry? How are we doing comparatively? Talk a little bit about that, about measuring what you do and how to quantify that because some people look at their work and say, Well, we can’t really put it in the dinner table on the spreadsheet, but you still have to show some results.
 Giselle: That’s right. That part is very important. That is what stops people at first base. Because that is a very integral part, the objectives, you have to have clear objectives that can be measured. Those things, as a part of the proposal writing process, have to be considered while we are sitting at the table: how we want to measure this, what are the outcomes, what are the expected outcomes, and then what we want those variables that we use in order to test it. A lot of people, a lot of organizations that I work with, only think short-term.
 They are very short-sighted and think they want to do a program for only one year when they are working with students to help improve their ELG scores, for instance. Okay. How are we going to know whether or not what you have done as far as the programmatic have impacted these young people? How are you going to test that from year to year? Are you going to follow them for just one year after they have successfully perhaps passed the ELGs their first year? Or are you going to continue to follow them until they graduate? Those are things you have to consider. Then you are addressing subliminally how long your program is going to be, from one year to four years perhaps to eight years to follow with that. All of those steps in between of parents being an active part, they have a great deal to do with whether or not the objectives are being met because they see things as concerns that say that program that involves those children you are trying to help improve those scores, parents see things at home. They need to see some things changing at home. Organizations in a community, they also have input on seeing the growth and development of that child.
 There are many things to consider as you think about evaluating these programs. That is what we consider at the beginning: How do you draft an objective that can be measured? What other evaluation tools will be there? Yes, sir, those are very important parts of the proposal process that have to be discussed up front. Having a team there to contribute also helps, not just one person trying to think of all of these things themselves. Having the team approach helps.
 Russell: It does, it does, it does. It’s a long-term plan; the sustainability and the funding should be thought of in terms of taking a long view. What will happen over the course of time. This is pretty critical. A lot of people struggle with that. Some do, some don’t. You teach people how to go about working these processes in. Tell us a little bit about how you approach teaching people to quantify that because quantifying it and talking about how you measure- The fourth piece of building a high-performance nonprofit is communicating the value that you bring to people. That plays into getting people to bet on your team and to fund you, looking at what is that value and how do you communicate that in terms that are important to the funder?
 Giselle: Wow. Again, you have touched on something that involves a mindset shift. I say that because every organization has to develop a culture of giving, a culture of fundraising, a culture that supports at all odds giving what is needed in order to operationalize that particular idea. From understanding what philanthropy means, understanding that the culture involves even on the board level that boards have to be involved in the process of thinking through what their fiduciary responsibility, why it’s so important even for them to give to the idea because buy-in is difficult if the board doesn’t support it 100%. Being able to quantify the value is a complete and total buy-in from everyone who is internal to the organization. That is a mindset shift. It is a culture that has to be cultivated. It has to have been there and sitting around the table making sure that everyone understands the value of the organization, understands the value of that particular community of people because again, yeah, we can quantify numbers. But those numbers represent people, and those people are the ones that have the issues. Understanding and feeling out why it is so important to activate that voice and being able to connect on a donor level to the individuals being impacted is important. The organization, the people in that organization, the board and the members, all those who are a part are a part of something else bigger and greater happening. Those kinds of things, when they are happening and filled with momentum, it is easier to get the kind of quantifiable results that we are talking about. It is easier to begin to do that, and where the community is seeing it through everything that is written and written well through the newsletters, through all these things that are showing people what is happening, they are constantly involved. That is also creating a culture around that particular organization. The more that they know about what’s happening, the greater the instances they will continue to give. That organization is not just a one-time giving opportunity. You want this to be a sustained relationship in that good or bad you have where we need to grow, you have the stakeholders meeting. Those kinds of things need to constantly happen so that it will increase opportunities for organizations and charities to give. That is what I see as far as that is concerned.
 My particular experience over the years is being the lone ranger so to speak, being that lone grant writer and desiring to have a team around me that I can continue to train in the classroom is one thing, but in my business, to have that as I have been working with these people over the years, I understand why it’s so important now. Being that lone ranger, like you said earlier, receiving all of these grants and all of these people who want that services by myself, is daunting. It is very overwhelming. Understanding why it is so important to have a team to surround the board, the team to surround the individual who is interested in making an impact in the community, is so very important. I am glad for that question because that speaks to the heart of getting the kinds of results and those statistics that will grow and follow that organization so that they stay open and ready to continue to receive the funding that they need. That is what you read often. I read an article just recently that said before you become a nonprofit, read this. Don’t do it. Find other ways to do it because it is daunting, it is overwhelming if you think that there is only one way to go about funding, and you are trying to do it on your own. This is an excellent question for the culture has to be developed. A culture for philanthropy, a culture for giving.
 Russell: It is. I just got another question from Jolyn. She says that, “I have been a lone ranger for too long and am ready to create a team and need to know where to start.”
 Giselle: Tell her to call me. My number is- hahaha. Jolyn, will you be on my team? She needs first of all, and I am building my infrastructure as well. In putting myself out there, I am attracted to so many people who have such great gifts. But you need some skilled writers on your team. You have to duplicate yourself at least three or four times. You need to have a few people who are skilled. You also need to have someone who is your accountant, someone who is good at putting together a budget. That is a very big part of this. Then someone who understands data. Your question about being able to measure growth, you need people who are experienced in that to be on your team; someone who can look at data management is a critical role. Having someone who deals with that, and then it would not hurt to have a good fundraiser, someone who can sell you the bottled water that you already have beside you. There are some people who are just gifted at that. But to have someone who doesn’t mind going out and being the face of the organization, you need someone like that. just a few people around you, and then you will continue to grow.
 It wouldn’t hurt for you to also consider some interns. Get interns. I launched an internship and had the pleasure of working with some dynamite young people. I have worked many places, so it wasn’t difficult for me to make a couple of phone calls and get some recommendations for some young people who are gifted. The areas that I used them is not just for writing, but I also began to train them in sales. I had a young person who was my PR representative. She was fantastic. Then another one who was very good at technology and web design. Those things help. Then all of them being part of this younger millennial generation, they were all social-media savvy. That helped. Someone who is gifted at that as well. All those key parts were to help the organization because all those things are needed to help put them into the forefront of the community. Jolyn, call me. We can talk. We can continue to talk.
 Russell: Make sure you get the number. Giselle can put that number in the chat. Another question that Jolyn had was: How do I get people to come on board when I don’t have funds to pay them? Giselle covered some of that masterfully. There are opportunities out there where you have students, internships. There are opportunities to get pro bono work if you have an idea how to do that. Worth exploring pro bono as a means. Pro bono is not great for anything you need in a hurry, but pro bono is another opportunity for you to get services. When the whole concept of pro bono was launched, it was centered around the legal profession. But any type of professional organization or any type of profession almost bar none today, you can find some organizations that do pro bono work. That is something that you can talk with Giselle about. I’d be happy to talk with you about that if you have questions on that as well. That is very important. Thank you for that.
 Giselle: Fantastic.
 Russell: The word “culture” is something that you used. I read a study that was centered around funding. They took a sample of about 2,700 nonprofits of all sizes to find out what sort of fundraising practices they had. There was a lot of reliance on the development director, or there is a single person that a lot of them rely on, usually the development director. This person, they didn’t all have processes set up because fundraising is an all-hands-on-deck adventure for nonprofit. Oftentimes, it’s left to one person, and there is not what they call a culture of fundraising, which is having everybody that is associated with the organization participate in that. It starts with leadership, particularly your board of directors. Talk a little bit about that importance of having your leadership be involved and how a culture of fundraising can help you be more sustainable.
 Giselle: Another excellent question. Having all of your leadership on board is critically important. I believe that the buy-in that can be shown on the outside is critically important. Culture has to do with personality also, the personality of the organization. You attract people who are most like you. The organization itself as you embark upon events in the community and those things that you want to help promote the idea that you have, it is best to operate as the team and not just a one-person show. That is not the way it should be handled. I appreciate the study that you’ve mentioned and that you increase your opportunities to be successful when you are approaching it from the partnership, from the group approach, as opposed to that lone ranger. You increase your opportunities. That is what is really all about. Even the collaboration between organizations that are like-minded shows that you really have the community at the center of what you’re doing and not just your individual organization, but you’re wanting to collaborate, you’re wanting to partner. That in and of itself can change a community. The personality of the community as well, knowing that people are there to help them, people are there who do care about their particular needs. Those things are important. Yes, operating as a board, being trained as a board, going together to receive the same knowledge, puts them all in a better position to make a greater impact. I agree wholeheartedly with that study. I have not read that, but I agree with it wholeheartedly. I do. I am messing up my screen, Russ. Do you see something over here to the right?
 Russell: No, I don’t. You haven’t shared your screen with the audience, so you’re okay. Culture of fundraising, there are a lot of different types of cultural mindsets. One is a culture of innovation. That is an organization that always wants to try new things. A culture of learning. That is an organization that invests in development, in building your people. That is the opportunity you have to offer some of your volunteers, or as we like to call them, servant leaders. Development, and it can be training in a specific area that is of interest to them. These are things, when you don’t have cash that you can offer development opportunities, you can offer opportunities for people to exercise their creativity and build a portfolio. It would be a wonderful opportunity for a student of marketing to come in and build a social media strategy.
 Giselle: Oh my goodness, yes.
 Russell: They get to put that in their portfolio, and you get some expertise from people that are learning. You have undergraduate students who can work as interns, and you have graduate students that can work as fellows for more robust studies and this type of thing. The opportunity to get support really rests in what people value.
 The word “value” is something that more people associate with business. I don’t hear people talking in terms of value. When somebody sets up a profit-making business, they do it to deliver something of value that people will pay for, that they can offer at a profit. This is what we’re doing. We have to operate at a profit, and it’s called surplus in nonprofit circles. The bottom line is the same regardless of your tax status. If more money goes out the door than comes in, you’re done. Or after a period of time. It’s about sustainability and keeping the steady flow of funds coming in.
 A lot of people look at grants, but there are so many funds to come in through other means, too. Grants are something that people associate with nonprofits, but when you get in-kind services, such as pro bono, that is a different matter. You get sponsorship. Individual donations come in a lot of forms. There are current checks. But individuals may plan for when they are away, they want to leave a legacy. So you have planned giving. You have capital campaigns. You have all sorts of things. There are a lot of things that you can do. It’s important to have a diverse base of funds. But you have got to build relationships to get those. A lot of people think in terms of grants.
 Giselle, what sort of things have you done with people that you go in to write grants for to help them be more sustainable? I know when people talk to you initially a lot of times they are thinking in terms of grant funds. But there are other options. How do you help people explore those other options?
 Giselle: Let’s say that first grant is not funded, or somehow something happens and they don’t get their 501(c)3 in time, they wonder what they can do in the interim. Well, in those cases, I have worked with the organizations to partner with another organization with a 501(c)3 to serve as a fiscal sponsor. As a matter of fact, that occurred about a year and a half ago with an organization. They are just coming back from Brazil now, but the Global Missions Group has partnered with a church inside Silo City. Silo City is serving as a fiscal sponsor so that they would have the sponsorship they needed in order to write those grants. But they also have a very robust, as you say, board. They have each invested a certain amount so it could sustain those short trips that are taken in order for them to do the exploratory kinds of work because they build churches in Brazil. They do that to make sure those kinds of operations occur. Then they go out and seek those sponsorships, those people in the community and from the churches that are like-minded, that are missions-oriented, and they pledge those. They become their own rope. They have their *audio interruption* and they ask for donations that way. When you have something that is pressing, and the grant is low-hanging, it’s out there, you can’t get to it, but you know there are things you need to do, you have to get creative. Like you said, you have to be innovative. You have to come up with some creative ways quickly to go get what you need.
 That one organization, I want to use them as the exemplar. They are wonderful. They have come up with strategic partnerships. I have helped them to cultivate that and behind the scenes to create all the documentation they need in order to do it. But they have their street team. They go out and visit these churches. They carpool. They go where they need to go and to spread their particular program or the mission of their program, and they made it happen. Then grant dollars started coming in. But all of those things working in concert helped. They are one organization that made it work against all odds. They knew what they needed to do. They believe strongly that their particular organization has something to do for the building of God’s kingdom. They wanted to spread the word by building churches in places where the word is not shared. They were about business. They are two retired gentlemen. They knew that was their purpose, and they brought me on to help to be that person to help them find all of the resources necessary. We had all kinds of campaigns. They sold T-shirts. You name it, they did it. They used social media. They had the street team. They had their passion, their heart; they wore it on their sleeves. Everywhere they went, people gave. People gave because they believed and had evidence to show that they had done this and that more work needed to be done, that their mission is far from being over because there are still people who are unreached.
 That is an example of what is done in the face of not perhaps receiving that grant or when you are in waiting mode but there are people out there, organizations out there, who will serve as fiscal sponsors. You have those who come up with multiple fundraising ideas and then they began to implement those. The more passionate you are about what it is that you do, you have to be creative and think outside the box. That is where I come in to make sure that the written pieces, the documentation, follows their dreams, follows their action plan, follows everything.
 The sustainability part, that was a part of your question as well. On the other end, sustainability, to follow up reporting is important. People forget that, and their organizations end up being audited because they are not turning in the paperwork that is needed to follow up what they have done. You are funded, but then you have these periodic reports that have to be submitted. You have to show what you are accomplishing via newsletter, whatever it is to show the community and those people who have given what you’re doing. That has to continue. The Write Source has been that follow-up aid for technical writing as well. My work continues to follow the organization. I have done that with these organizations that I help. It doesn’t stop with getting the grant. You have to have a sustainability plan in place. You have to include in your budget those contractual fees that cover periodic evaluations. From the funders, you have to give way to them coming to visit your site. They are a part of the process. They are a part of your big picture once you see that funding. All of those pieces are important to understand upfront that just wanting a grant involves multiple layers. Understanding those layers will equip them to be able to receive it and continue to receive in the future. Yes, sir, you are exactly right.
 Russell: There is an awful lot packed in what you said. It really starts with, as you put things together, talking with people who you are going to serve, people who will pay for your programs. It’s really understanding what is important to people. Keep your measures down to the things that are most important. If you design the program carefully so that it’s not an extra burden on the people delivering services, but actually collect information, you will have more success, and there are ways to do that. This business of collaboration is going out and bringing other entities in. When you look at in your foundational process, the skills that you have on hand and the skills that you may have gaps with, that helps you bring collaborative partners because when you have core inner values that are alike, and you get these complementary skillsets, you can work together. Everybody is working to their strengths, not trying to fill weakness. Everybody is doing what they do best. That increases the leverage exponentially that you have working together to actually get some impact. It is critical to collaborate with other people in that way. Bring that impact forth. It’s a wonderful way to go about doing things. Working with other people is important. I did put Dr. Jones-Jones’ phone number in the chat.
 Giselle: Thank you.
 Russell: You have an onsite link for an automated calendar, don’t you? I want to put it out there on Facebook and in the chat so people can go to that automated scheduler and book time with you.
 Giselle: I am going to let that happen in a few minutes because I do want to make that available. Yes, sir.
 Russell: Automation is important. Technology is our friend when it works.
 Giselle: When it works, yes, sir.
 Russell: When it works, it’s a thing of beauty.
 Giselle: I see that she says she doesn’t see the phone number. Okay.
 Russell: I typed it in. Scroll up to about 12:44. I put it in about 13 minutes ago in the chat.
 Giselle: Okay.
 Russell: I can copy it again and put it up again.
 Giselle: Wait a minute, I see that.
 Russell: I will put it back in there because there have been a lot of comments in there and the feed has been scrolling away. That is how folks get ahold of you.
 It’s really been a pleasure. I’m thankful to all of our panelists, to all of our folks who have attended and asked a lot of great questions. There is a toll-free number there, 888-426-2792. I need to get that in the comment section of Facebook as well. This hour has gone very quickly. What sort of closing thoughts do you want to leave our audience with today?
 Giselle: Again, the need for a team approach to proposal writing, I can’t express that enough, having been one who has experienced the burden by herself, who has also been successful, and I’m thankful for that. Having worked with organizations and having them funded close to a million dollars speaks to the gift that I have and how I have been able to use it over the course of these 20 years. But I think having the team approach, now having more who are on the board, understanding how important it is, and even with the collaboration with Hugh and SynerVision, just how many more people we are going to be able to impact. I am excited about those possibilities.
 I am excited about this collaboration with SynerVision because I know that he is moving forward, and you are moving forward, Russell. I believe that our paths, this is destiny. You are already on that path, and my path has joined yours. You are moving forward and upward. You are impacting people. Now utilizing the skillset that I have, I believe that we are going to really make a difference in a lot of people’s lives. The world needs us. A lot of people are hurting in the world.
 I do believe that at the heart of nonprofits and the heart of charities, they do have a heart for the people. That is how I see myself. I am a person who helps the people who want to help. What greater legacy could one leave in knowing that I have given myself and my life and my skillset I was given- I have been given this skillset. To be able to use it in a way, a meaningful way, to help organizations that have this fear of writing these proposals and understanding that is just one of many ways to go about giving the resources, now being a part of SynerVision and helping to create this infrastructure that will be there to support the people that come through SynerVision and are trained and the local implementation to know that you have a god in between to help make that happen. I couldn’t be happier. I couldn’t feel any more in position and aligned to do greater things. I tell my students all the time, “Just use me.” I know that’s bad. But I am at that place. “Just use me.” Use me. I am a student. I am still learning. As a matter of fact, I learned a great deal on this podcast today from you, Russell. I stand greater because of this experience. I am humbly here. I am one who is willing to serve. I am here.
 Russell: Dr. Giselle Jones. It’s really been a pleasure to have you here. I am looking forward to working with you to serve other people. These phone numbers out here for those of you who are watching on Facebook and would like to speak with Giselle at greater length, 888-426-2792, toll-free. Or 336-681-1863, local, to Greensboro, North Carolina area. If you want to discuss other matters, you can book a discovery session with me. We can do it live or online. Go to bit.ly/bookruss. Get yourself on my calendar. Let’s talk.
 Synervision Leadership, we are building the community. We are building our online offerings. There will be much more to come. We will be doing live events in your area somewhere in 2018 as we roll out SynerVision, and we will have more webinars, online offerings, and such. Go to www.thewritesource.org for more information. This is Russ Dennis and Hugh Ballou thanking all of you who have joined us on Facebook. Be sure to tune in next week. We will have a panel on diversity where we will talk about diversity and how that strengthens nonprofits. Until next week on the Nonprofit Exchange, this is Russ Dennis.
 For those of you who are on Facebook and would care to join me, there is the Nonprofit Culture of Success show that we run weekly. That is something I host tomorrow. Dr. David Gruder is my guest. Next Wednesday, our own Hugh Ballou will be my guest. Thank you once again, and I look forward to seeing you again next week on the Nonprofit Exchange.
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        <![CDATA[<p>Giselle Jones-Jones shares her wisdom on engaging board members in fund sourcing.</p> <p><strong>Here's the Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange brought to you by SynerVision Leadership Foundation. I am your host, Russell Dennis. Thank you for joining us. Our guest today is Dr. A Giselle Jones. She is the founder of The Write Source, technical writing and consultation services. She is a writing advocate for community leaders, pastors, administrators, and the like, all sorts of nonprofit entities. She is here to share her expertise with us today. Thank you, Giselle. Welcome. Glad to have you here.</p> <p><strong>Giselle Jones-Jones:</strong> I am glad to be here.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> All right. So Giselle, tell us a little bit more about the woman underneath the cloak.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> I see myself standing like Wonder Woman with my cape flying in the wind.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Tell us about your superpowers here.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> I’ll tell ya, I am empowered by the people whom I have had the privilege to write for and to work for. They are really the wind beneath my wings. I can’t claim any of the success on my own. It’s because I have been in the right place and been equipped to be the right person for these people. I like the way you emphasize The <em>Write</em> Source before because that is exactly what I do. The w-r-i-t-e. I do the writing. We’ll talk a little bit more about that in just a little bit.</p> <p>But the woman underneath the cloak, the woman wearing the mask, the woman who is in the background. Again, my name is Giselle Jones-Jones. I am a Jones twice. I married a Jones. I have ben writing now, filling the majority of my professional life, and how I demonstrate that in my day job, so to speak, is as a teacher. I am a professor of English, of literature, public speaking, so that is my day job, and that is what gives me my passion. My students give me my passion. I do that and have been doing it since 1990. That tells my age, Lord have mercy. But I have been doing that for many years, and I learned my greatest lesson. I once heard that the teacher is twice taught. Again, I look at everything really as a privilege, and I take everything that I do as building blocks to do the next thing. Teaching, that gives me what I need to do what I do in my evening job, in my weekend job, in the-extra-time-that-I-have job, which is working for the nonprofit, which is working for the charity or the ministry or the professionals who have a desire in their hearts to do something to make a change in their community.</p> <p>Where I come in is exactly how I see my students. My students on the first day of English 101: Composition, “I hate to write. I don’t want to do it.” I have to struggle with them throughout the semester. On the other end of it, they are happy for the journey. But it’s the same thing with the charities, with nonprofits. There is this fear, there is this force that is in the air, and they absolutely fear the writing process. Preparing that proposal just causes dread and so they have a desire to do something in the community. They want to do something great, but they often stop in their tracks. When they face that in order to write a grant, it needs to read well, etc, they come looking for the grant writer, that person, and that has been me for organizations again who I have been privileged to work with as a freelance writer.</p> <p>I created The Write Source to cover me as the freelance grant writer, and that is how I have operated over the course of these 20+ years that I have been The Write Source. Meeting Hugh on August 26—that was just a little over two weeks ago—founder and president of SynerVision, opened my eyes to the possibilities that I was working out this summer and building of the infrastructure of my company to duplicate myself a few more times so that I can reach more people and help more people. Again, this opportunity today is a blessing. The past two weeks dealing with Hugh, I have been on a rollercoaster ride already. It’s been fantastic because it’s putting me in a place of impact to help people more, for me to do more and to build upon what I’m doing even more.</p> <p>That is a little bit of who I am. I’m a mother of three. I have two in college, both of my two girls, and I have a boy who is 12. I’m a wife of a wonderful man who is a musician like Hugh and a director. Again, I am privileged to be his wife. Here I am, before you now. I have shared a little bit about my passion, what makes me get up, what is my mission for life, walking in my purpose, walking in my destiny, all of that.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I’m glad to have you here just looking at your bio. You are a tenured professor at just about every university in the state of Carolina.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Oh, stop.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Your client list reads like a who’s who. It’s phenomenal. More hands makes the work lighter.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> That’s right.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I’ve been a part of this SynerVision team and signed on as the first WayFinder. We have been building momentum and now things are starting to take off. It’s really great to have expertise to leverage because you can do more. A lot of nonprofits feel like they’re alone. How much does that play into the struggle that people have with writing grants? I know that a lot of times, at my first nonprofit job, my first day on the job, the travel planner came and dropped a package on my desk from the Department of Education and said, “I’ve seen your writing sample. You’ll do okay. I’m right next door if you need some help.” I had never written a grant. Talk a little bit about that intimidation that most people have and what makes it seem like such a difficult process for most folks to achieve.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> You said it. I mean there is nothing more dreaded than being given the RFP coming from a federal grant that requires 20-25 pages of information, demographic studies, all those things you have to do, plus giving a face and a personality to the organization. That is a lot. The fact that you were a gifted writer helps, but think about those who lack the skills to write. They feel alone. They feel like they’re on an island by themselves, and again, those grants go often unwritten. That’s money that that organization did not get because people stop in their tracks. It’s for that very reason it is dumped on one person’s desk, and that one person feels it is his/her job to do it by him/herself. That is wrong.</p> <p>The team approach is absolutely the best way to go about this. I think that the idea that you offer grant-writing workshops and support the grant writer, that is promoting it the wrong way. It has to come from the point of view that a team effort, with the grant writer sitting at the helm delegating responsibilities—Yes, that can be that person’s role, but that person needs the help of experts across the board everywhere from just even designing the document itself. You need someone who goes and gathers the information. All of these pieces go walking past the background in accounting who can put together that top-notch budget that is tight and that is ready to go. All of those elements for one person to handle, who is a gifted writer but may not have the expertise in those other areas, can get overwhelming.</p> <p>Again, having those people on board, having those people who are trained and equipped and ready to contribute to the team, is the best way to approach grant-writing or proposal-writing, period. That body of people, really from the standpoint of all funds development, all funds, all resources, from not proposal-writing because you can’t put all your eggs in one basket either, that team will follow the organization and work with that organization, with donors, with sponsors, with all of that because the same documentation is needed, the same writing is needed. That team of people who are equipped and ready to help the nonprofit, the charity, the ministry, they follow them from beginning to end and let them know they’re not alone. That is overcoming that particular person who is given that file on the desk, that RFP. No, if that does happen, that person sitting at that desk should pick up the phone and call that team and call a meeting and let’s go over this. Let’s look at this and delegate. Let’s look at who needs to do what so we can pull this together.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Our first question came from Jolyn. She asked, “Do you know of any grant funding for a holistic healer or complementary healing services for PTSD?”</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Oh my goodness. I would think that there will be federal funding, and I do have a list of those from the Center of Disease Control, federal dollars that go toward those military who have suffered. There is funding, yes, there is. As a matter of fact, I am going to keep searching for that, and I will make that available. I think there is a chat forum on here, and I will type those in as I find them. Yes, there are federal dollars that are available for that, yes.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> We will get those in there to you.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There we are. We’ve got a phone number for Karen. There is information we can follow up with in the chat. I have put the web address in the Facebook chat and the Zoom chat forums: http://www.thewritesource.org. That is where you can reach Dr. Jones. As always, our lines are open for more questions. Jolyn already has a 501(c)3 set up, and she knows about practitioners. There are some people that I want to put Jolyn in touch with who are doing different types of things, nontraditional and complementary healing. I will put her in touch with some other people online.</p> <p>My next question is that you have been working. I know you met Hugh a couple of weeks ago, and you have been talking about setting up what you call an office of funds development and collaboration. This is something that other nonprofits can do for themselves. Tell us a little bit about setting that type of thing up.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Especially because Hugh approaches what he does through SynerVision with the team approach, team is very important. So having a funds development office is really the next step in line for what he needs to do. It takes the pressure off of him so that he can continue to be creative, so that he can continue to do his workshops, his symposiums, but to have this particular office to continue to fund what he does as he helps organizations and boards fund what they do, the team approach handling how they go about procuring and sustaining their funds, this particular office would be the liaison between the workshops and the symposiums that are held to local implementation. This office would provide guidance after they have received the trainings. this particular office will follow them.</p> <p>And it’s got two branches, two arms. It will continue to fund the endeavors of SynerVision because its vision is large. Its vision is still evolving. That one side is important. But then those whom SynerVision develops and trains, they will continue support. This office will be here to stay ahead of the game with resources, with staying trained and relevant and current about what is being offered to charities and nonprofits across the board because again people have various needs and they are trying to impact change in their local communities in various ways. This office will be equipped to be the support for both sides, for SynerVision and for those whom they serve and develop and train. It is still a work in progress.</p> <p>Again, this is a two-week relationship that is blossoming, so we’re putting some meat on the bones per se, so that is where we are at this point. It is exciting. Hugh and I are talking every day. He says, “Giselle, what do you think about this? I am going to put these ideas together. Let’s put a proposal together to begin to make this happen because it needs to happen.” That is where we are as far as that is concerned. This particular office is critically important. It seems like a natural next step for SynerVision to have this particular office available.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> And it is. The work here that SynerVision is doing is designed to help nonprofits increase their capacity to serve others. Training and development is very important. It’s something that will attract people to you to serve on your board and for volunteers. Having a process, we’re all about helping put processes together that will empower you to work more efficiently, that will tell you to go off and find others to collaborate with. Fundraising is like a lot of other things. My whole role is to help nonprofits build high-performance organizations.</p> <p>There are four steps to that, and the first is having a solid foundation where you look at all of the things that you have. You look at all of your assets. You look at what you want to try to do and what you want to try to achieve. As you bring people in, you find out what drives them, what makes the work important to them. Once you understand why you’re doing what you’re doing, you can start putting a solid foundation.</p> <p>Talk a little bit about the importance of an overall strategy. I’ve seen a lot of organizations go out and take a scattershot approach where they are applying for grants, they are looking at pockets of funding and saying to themselves, “Oh my God, that’s a lot of money. Maybe we can go after this.” But they don’t stop to look at whether that particular funding source is the right one.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> That’s exactly right. Again, the process is very important. I believe the gift that I have is making sure the voice of the organization tells the story. It is what draws the potential donor to them, which gives value both ways, which shows why the organization is so important and why they are so important to do the work they want to do in their community, and why it won’t be done any other way. It’s important then to connect with the potential donor that has the same value that in giving their money and making a contribution, they will be a part of that value. That I think is important, but what I do and have done is to go and pull the voice out of the organization. Who are you? It’s activating voice.</p> <p>I came up with my own class that I’ll be teaching that is called Voice Activated. It is. It’s just that. Who are you? What is it that you want to do? Whose lives are you trying to impact? First, you have to know your purpose. Everybody wants grants. I get phone calls every day, “I need a grant. I need you to write a grant.” Okay. Why? Let’s back up. Let’s take a couple of steps back because you can’t go find the grant first and then write the grant to it. You have to have a purpose first. You have to know who you are first. You need to have in mind the person or the thing that is being impacted. You create a story around that. Those are the steps.</p> <p>You begin with you have to know who you are, and then we can look at- You have an idea, you know what it is you want to do in the community, you go from idea to how it is going to impact the community. You then look at, if given the money, if you get the funds, who is going to implement it. What is that going to look like? How are you going to sustain yourself if you don’t get that grant funding? What happens after that? Do you have a sustainability plan in place? from idea all the way to sustainability with implementation in there as well, those are the necessary steps it takes, but where we spend the most time is that first base. We have to know who we are, why you’re doing it, and thinking long-term or short-term and then long-term. Coming up with that kind of strategy, sitting with the organization, hashing that out will help. We can’t do anything else until we know who we are. That is exactly how I teach my classes. That is how I teach those first steps in composition. You have to know who you are. Once you can find that out, I can tap into that voice and help to create your story, to create the emotional attachment. All those things that go along with pulling people into knowing why that particular idea or why that particular act of service is so important.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That’s it. That is the second step of how to develop a high-performance nonprofit: creating an effective action plan. Once you look at what you’re trying to do, it’s a matter of, Okay, what do we need to do first? And breaking it down into simpler steps. It’s really important to be clear on who you are. Then you measure everything you do. This is probably a place where a lot of organizations struggle because they got an idea for what they want to accomplish, but they are not exactly sure how they want to measure it. There are two things. The third step of building a high-performance nonprofit is staying on track. When it comes to your programs, there is an evaluation component. That is an essential piece of every grant and of developing programs. A lot of people don’t account for resources to do evaluation when they have put a proposal together. The other piece is benchmarking, which is, Okay, how do we compare to other nonprofits doing similar work in the same industry? How are we doing comparatively? Talk a little bit about that, about measuring what you do and how to quantify that because some people look at their work and say, Well, we can’t really put it in the dinner table on the spreadsheet, but you still have to show some results.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> That’s right. That part is very important. That is what stops people at first base. Because that is a very integral part, the objectives, you have to have clear objectives that can be measured. Those things, as a part of the proposal writing process, have to be considered while we are sitting at the table: how we want to measure this, what are the outcomes, what are the expected outcomes, and then what we want those variables that we use in order to test it. A lot of people, a lot of organizations that I work with, only think short-term.</p> <p>They are very short-sighted and think they want to do a program for only one year when they are working with students to help improve their ELG scores, for instance. Okay. How are we going to know whether or not what you have done as far as the programmatic have impacted these young people? How are you going to test that from year to year? Are you going to follow them for just one year after they have successfully perhaps passed the ELGs their first year? Or are you going to continue to follow them until they graduate? Those are things you have to consider. Then you are addressing subliminally how long your program is going to be, from one year to four years perhaps to eight years to follow with that. All of those steps in between of parents being an active part, they have a great deal to do with whether or not the objectives are being met because they see things as concerns that say that program that involves those children you are trying to help improve those scores, parents see things at home. They need to see some things changing at home. Organizations in a community, they also have input on seeing the growth and development of that child.</p> <p>There are many things to consider as you think about evaluating these programs. That is what we consider at the beginning: How do you draft an objective that can be measured? What other evaluation tools will be there? Yes, sir, those are very important parts of the proposal process that have to be discussed up front. Having a team there to contribute also helps, not just one person trying to think of all of these things themselves. Having the team approach helps.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It does, it does, it does. It’s a long-term plan; the sustainability and the funding should be thought of in terms of taking a long view. What will happen over the course of time. This is pretty critical. A lot of people struggle with that. Some do, some don’t. You teach people how to go about working these processes in. Tell us a little bit about how you approach teaching people to quantify that because quantifying it and talking about how you measure- The fourth piece of building a high-performance nonprofit is communicating the value that you bring to people. That plays into getting people to bet on your team and to fund you, looking at what is that value and how do you communicate that in terms that are important to the funder?</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Wow. Again, you have touched on something that involves a mindset shift. I say that because every organization has to develop a culture of giving, a culture of fundraising, a culture that supports at all odds giving what is needed in order to operationalize that particular idea. From understanding what philanthropy means, understanding that the culture involves even on the board level that boards have to be involved in the process of thinking through what their fiduciary responsibility, why it’s so important even for them to give to the idea because buy-in is difficult if the board doesn’t support it 100%. Being able to quantify the value is a complete and total buy-in from everyone who is internal to the organization. That is a mindset shift. It is a culture that has to be cultivated. It has to have been there and sitting around the table making sure that everyone understands the value of the organization, understands the value of that particular community of people because again, yeah, we can quantify numbers. But those numbers represent people, and those people are the ones that have the issues. Understanding and feeling out why it is so important to activate that voice and being able to connect on a donor level to the individuals being impacted is important. The organization, the people in that organization, the board and the members, all those who are a part are a part of something else bigger and greater happening. Those kinds of things, when they are happening and filled with momentum, it is easier to get the kind of quantifiable results that we are talking about. It is easier to begin to do that, and where the community is seeing it through everything that is written and written well through the newsletters, through all these things that are showing people what is happening, they are constantly involved. That is also creating a culture around that particular organization. The more that they know about what’s happening, the greater the instances they will continue to give. That organization is not just a one-time giving opportunity. You want this to be a sustained relationship in that good or bad you have where we need to grow, you have the stakeholders meeting. Those kinds of things need to constantly happen so that it will increase opportunities for organizations and charities to give. That is what I see as far as that is concerned.</p> <p>My particular experience over the years is being the lone ranger so to speak, being that lone grant writer and desiring to have a team around me that I can continue to train in the classroom is one thing, but in my business, to have that as I have been working with these people over the years, I understand why it’s so important now. Being that lone ranger, like you said earlier, receiving all of these grants and all of these people who want that services by myself, is daunting. It is very overwhelming. Understanding why it is so important to have a team to surround the board, the team to surround the individual who is interested in making an impact in the community, is so very important. I am glad for that question because that speaks to the heart of getting the kinds of results and those statistics that will grow and follow that organization so that they stay open and ready to continue to receive the funding that they need. That is what you read often. I read an article just recently that said before you become a nonprofit, read this. Don’t do it. Find other ways to do it because it is daunting, it is overwhelming if you think that there is only one way to go about funding, and you are trying to do it on your own. This is an excellent question for the culture has to be developed. A culture for philanthropy, a culture for giving.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It is. I just got another question from Jolyn. She says that, “I have been a lone ranger for too long and am ready to create a team and need to know where to start.”</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Tell her to call me. My number is- hahaha. Jolyn, will you be on my team? She needs first of all, and I am building my infrastructure as well. In putting myself out there, I am attracted to so many people who have such great gifts. But you need some skilled writers on your team. You have to duplicate yourself at least three or four times. You need to have a few people who are skilled. You also need to have someone who is your accountant, someone who is good at putting together a budget. That is a very big part of this. Then someone who understands data. Your question about being able to measure growth, you need people who are experienced in that to be on your team; someone who can look at data management is a critical role. Having someone who deals with that, and then it would not hurt to have a good fundraiser, someone who can sell you the bottled water that you already have beside you. There are some people who are just gifted at that. But to have someone who doesn’t mind going out and being the face of the organization, you need someone like that. just a few people around you, and then you will continue to grow.</p> <p>It wouldn’t hurt for you to also consider some interns. Get interns. I launched an internship and had the pleasure of working with some dynamite young people. I have worked many places, so it wasn’t difficult for me to make a couple of phone calls and get some recommendations for some young people who are gifted. The areas that I used them is not just for writing, but I also began to train them in sales. I had a young person who was my PR representative. She was fantastic. Then another one who was very good at technology and web design. Those things help. Then all of them being part of this younger millennial generation, they were all social-media savvy. That helped. Someone who is gifted at that as well. All those key parts were to help the organization because all those things are needed to help put them into the forefront of the community. Jolyn, call me. We can talk. We can continue to talk.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Make sure you get the number. Giselle can put that number in the chat. Another question that Jolyn had was: How do I get people to come on board when I don’t have funds to pay them? Giselle covered some of that masterfully. There are opportunities out there where you have students, internships. There are opportunities to get pro bono work if you have an idea how to do that. Worth exploring pro bono as a means. Pro bono is not great for anything you need in a hurry, but pro bono is another opportunity for you to get services. When the whole concept of pro bono was launched, it was centered around the legal profession. But any type of professional organization or any type of profession almost bar none today, you can find some organizations that do pro bono work. That is something that you can talk with Giselle about. I’d be happy to talk with you about that if you have questions on that as well. That is very important. Thank you for that.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Fantastic.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> The word “culture” is something that you used. I read a study that was centered around funding. They took a sample of about 2,700 nonprofits of all sizes to find out what sort of fundraising practices they had. There was a lot of reliance on the development director, or there is a single person that a lot of them rely on, usually the development director. This person, they didn’t all have processes set up because fundraising is an all-hands-on-deck adventure for nonprofit. Oftentimes, it’s left to one person, and there is not what they call a culture of fundraising, which is having everybody that is associated with the organization participate in that. It starts with leadership, particularly your board of directors. Talk a little bit about that importance of having your leadership be involved and how a culture of fundraising can help you be more sustainable.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Another excellent question. Having all of your leadership on board is critically important. I believe that the buy-in that can be shown on the outside is critically important. Culture has to do with personality also, the personality of the organization. You attract people who are most like you. The organization itself as you embark upon events in the community and those things that you want to help promote the idea that you have, it is best to operate as the team and not just a one-person show. That is not the way it should be handled. I appreciate the study that you’ve mentioned and that you increase your opportunities to be successful when you are approaching it from the partnership, from the group approach, as opposed to that lone ranger. You increase your opportunities. That is what is really all about. Even the collaboration between organizations that are like-minded shows that you really have the community at the center of what you’re doing and not just your individual organization, but you’re wanting to collaborate, you’re wanting to partner. That in and of itself can change a community. The personality of the community as well, knowing that people are there to help them, people are there who do care about their particular needs. Those things are important. Yes, operating as a board, being trained as a board, going together to receive the same knowledge, puts them all in a better position to make a greater impact. I agree wholeheartedly with that study. I have not read that, but I agree with it wholeheartedly. I do. I am messing up my screen, Russ. Do you see something over here to the right?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> No, I don’t. You haven’t shared your screen with the audience, so you’re okay. Culture of fundraising, there are a lot of different types of cultural mindsets. One is a culture of innovation. That is an organization that always wants to try new things. A culture of learning. That is an organization that invests in development, in building your people. That is the opportunity you have to offer some of your volunteers, or as we like to call them, servant leaders. Development, and it can be training in a specific area that is of interest to them. These are things, when you don’t have cash that you can offer development opportunities, you can offer opportunities for people to exercise their creativity and build a portfolio. It would be a wonderful opportunity for a student of marketing to come in and build a social media strategy.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Oh my goodness, yes.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> They get to put that in their portfolio, and you get some expertise from people that are learning. You have undergraduate students who can work as interns, and you have graduate students that can work as fellows for more robust studies and this type of thing. The opportunity to get support really rests in what people value.</p> <p>The word “value” is something that more people associate with business. I don’t hear people talking in terms of value. When somebody sets up a profit-making business, they do it to deliver something of value that people will pay for, that they can offer at a profit. This is what we’re doing. We have to operate at a profit, and it’s called surplus in nonprofit circles. The bottom line is the same regardless of your tax status. If more money goes out the door than comes in, you’re done. Or after a period of time. It’s about sustainability and keeping the steady flow of funds coming in.</p> <p>A lot of people look at grants, but there are so many funds to come in through other means, too. Grants are something that people associate with nonprofits, but when you get in-kind services, such as pro bono, that is a different matter. You get sponsorship. Individual donations come in a lot of forms. There are current checks. But individuals may plan for when they are away, they want to leave a legacy. So you have planned giving. You have capital campaigns. You have all sorts of things. There are a lot of things that you can do. It’s important to have a diverse base of funds. But you have got to build relationships to get those. A lot of people think in terms of grants.</p> <p>Giselle, what sort of things have you done with people that you go in to write grants for to help them be more sustainable? I know when people talk to you initially a lot of times they are thinking in terms of grant funds. But there are other options. How do you help people explore those other options?</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Let’s say that first grant is not funded, or somehow something happens and they don’t get their 501(c)3 in time, they wonder what they can do in the interim. Well, in those cases, I have worked with the organizations to partner with another organization with a 501(c)3 to serve as a fiscal sponsor. As a matter of fact, that occurred about a year and a half ago with an organization. They are just coming back from Brazil now, but the Global Missions Group has partnered with a church inside Silo City. Silo City is serving as a fiscal sponsor so that they would have the sponsorship they needed in order to write those grants. But they also have a very robust, as you say, board. They have each invested a certain amount so it could sustain those short trips that are taken in order for them to do the exploratory kinds of work because they build churches in Brazil. They do that to make sure those kinds of operations occur. Then they go out and seek those sponsorships, those people in the community and from the churches that are like-minded, that are missions-oriented, and they pledge those. They become their own rope. They have their <strong>*audio interruption*</strong> and they ask for donations that way. When you have something that is pressing, and the grant is low-hanging, it’s out there, you can’t get to it, but you know there are things you need to do, you have to get creative. Like you said, you have to be innovative. You have to come up with some creative ways quickly to go get what you need.</p> <p>That one organization, I want to use them as the exemplar. They are wonderful. They have come up with strategic partnerships. I have helped them to cultivate that and behind the scenes to create all the documentation they need in order to do it. But they have their street team. They go out and visit these churches. They carpool. They go where they need to go and to spread their particular program or the mission of their program, and they made it happen. Then grant dollars started coming in. But all of those things working in concert helped. They are one organization that made it work against all odds. They knew what they needed to do. They believe strongly that their particular organization has something to do for the building of God’s kingdom. They wanted to spread the word by building churches in places where the word is not shared. They were about business. They are two retired gentlemen. They knew that was their purpose, and they brought me on to help to be that person to help them find all of the resources necessary. We had all kinds of campaigns. They sold T-shirts. You name it, they did it. They used social media. They had the street team. They had their passion, their heart; they wore it on their sleeves. Everywhere they went, people gave. People gave because they believed and had evidence to show that they had done this and that more work needed to be done, that their mission is far from being over because there are still people who are unreached.</p> <p>That is an example of what is done in the face of not perhaps receiving that grant or when you are in waiting mode but there are people out there, organizations out there, who will serve as fiscal sponsors. You have those who come up with multiple fundraising ideas and then they began to implement those. The more passionate you are about what it is that you do, you have to be creative and think outside the box. That is where I come in to make sure that the written pieces, the documentation, follows their dreams, follows their action plan, follows everything.</p> <p>The sustainability part, that was a part of your question as well. On the other end, sustainability, to follow up reporting is important. People forget that, and their organizations end up being audited because they are not turning in the paperwork that is needed to follow up what they have done. You are funded, but then you have these periodic reports that have to be submitted. You have to show what you are accomplishing via newsletter, whatever it is to show the community and those people who have given what you’re doing. That has to continue. The Write Source has been that follow-up aid for technical writing as well. My work continues to follow the organization. I have done that with these organizations that I help. It doesn’t stop with getting the grant. You have to have a sustainability plan in place. You have to include in your budget those contractual fees that cover periodic evaluations. From the funders, you have to give way to them coming to visit your site. They are a part of the process. They are a part of your big picture once you see that funding. All of those pieces are important to understand upfront that just wanting a grant involves multiple layers. Understanding those layers will equip them to be able to receive it and continue to receive in the future. Yes, sir, you are exactly right.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There is an awful lot packed in what you said. It really starts with, as you put things together, talking with people who you are going to serve, people who will pay for your programs. It’s really understanding what is important to people. Keep your measures down to the things that are most important. If you design the program carefully so that it’s not an extra burden on the people delivering services, but actually collect information, you will have more success, and there are ways to do that. This business of collaboration is going out and bringing other entities in. When you look at in your foundational process, the skills that you have on hand and the skills that you may have gaps with, that helps you bring collaborative partners because when you have core inner values that are alike, and you get these complementary skillsets, you can work together. Everybody is working to their strengths, not trying to fill weakness. Everybody is doing what they do best. That increases the leverage exponentially that you have working together to actually get some impact. It is critical to collaborate with other people in that way. Bring that impact forth. It’s a wonderful way to go about doing things. Working with other people is important. I did put Dr. Jones-Jones’ phone number in the chat.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Thank you.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You have an onsite link for an automated calendar, don’t you? I want to put it out there on Facebook and in the chat so people can go to that automated scheduler and book time with you.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> I am going to let that happen in a few minutes because I do want to make that available. Yes, sir.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Automation is important. Technology is our friend when it works.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> When it works, yes, sir.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> When it works, it’s a thing of beauty.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> I see that she says she doesn’t see the phone number. Okay.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I typed it in. Scroll up to about 12:44. I put it in about 13 minutes ago in the chat.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Okay.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I can copy it again and put it up again.</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Wait a minute, I see that.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I will put it back in there because there have been a lot of comments in there and the feed has been scrolling away. That is how folks get ahold of you.</p> <p>It’s really been a pleasure. I’m thankful to all of our panelists, to all of our folks who have attended and asked a lot of great questions. There is a toll-free number there, 888-426-2792. I need to get that in the comment section of Facebook as well. This hour has gone very quickly. What sort of closing thoughts do you want to leave our audience with today?</p> <p><strong>Giselle:</strong> Again, the need for a team approach to proposal writing, I can’t express that enough, having been one who has experienced the burden by herself, who has also been successful, and I’m thankful for that. Having worked with organizations and having them funded close to a million dollars speaks to the gift that I have and how I have been able to use it over the course of these 20 years. But I think having the team approach, now having more who are on the board, understanding how important it is, and even with the collaboration with Hugh and SynerVision, just how many more people we are going to be able to impact. I am excited about those possibilities.</p> <p>I am excited about this collaboration with SynerVision because I know that he is moving forward, and you are moving forward, Russell. I believe that our paths, this is destiny. You are already on that path, and my path has joined yours. You are moving forward and upward. You are impacting people. Now utilizing the skillset that I have, I believe that we are going to really make a difference in a lot of people’s lives. The world needs us. A lot of people are hurting in the world.</p> <p>I do believe that at the heart of nonprofits and the heart of charities, they do have a heart for the people. That is how I see myself. I am a person who helps the people who want to help. What greater legacy could one leave in knowing that I have given myself and my life and my skillset I was given- I have been given this skillset. To be able to use it in a way, a meaningful way, to help organizations that have this fear of writing these proposals and understanding that is just one of many ways to go about giving the resources, now being a part of SynerVision and helping to create this infrastructure that will be there to support the people that come through SynerVision and are trained and the local implementation to know that you have a god in between to help make that happen. I couldn’t be happier. I couldn’t feel any more in position and aligned to do greater things. I tell my students all the time, “Just use me.” I know that’s bad. But I am at that place. “Just use me.” Use me. I am a student. I am still learning. As a matter of fact, I learned a great deal on this podcast today from you, Russell. I stand greater because of this experience. I am humbly here. I am one who is willing to serve. I am here.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Dr. Giselle Jones. It’s really been a pleasure to have you here. I am looking forward to working with you to serve other people. These phone numbers out here for those of you who are watching on Facebook and would like to speak with Giselle at greater length, 888-426-2792, toll-free. Or 336-681-1863, local, to Greensboro, North Carolina area. If you want to discuss other matters, you can book a discovery session with me. We can do it live or online. Go to bit.ly/bookruss. Get yourself on my calendar. Let’s talk.</p> <p>Synervision Leadership, we are building the community. We are building our online offerings. There will be much more to come. We will be doing live events in your area somewhere in 2018 as we roll out SynerVision, and we will have more webinars, online offerings, and such. Go to www.thewritesource.org for more information. This is Russ Dennis and Hugh Ballou thanking all of you who have joined us on Facebook. Be sure to tune in next week. We will have a panel on diversity where we will talk about diversity and how that strengthens nonprofits. Until next week on the Nonprofit Exchange, this is Russ Dennis.</p> <p>For those of you who are on Facebook and would care to join me, there is the Nonprofit Culture of Success show that we run weekly. That is something I host tomorrow. Dr. David Gruder is my guest. Next Wednesday, our own Hugh Ballou will be my guest. Thank you once again, and I look forward to seeing you again next week on the Nonprofit Exchange.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Cheryl Snapp Conner On How Great Content Attracts Funding</title>
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      <description>Cheryl Snapp Conner, public relations specialist, Forbes contributor. author, and founder of Content University
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      <itunes:title>Cheryl Snapp Conner On Creating Great Content </itunes:title>
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      <itunes:subtitle>Introducing Content University</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Cheryl Snapp Conner, public relations specialist, Forbes contributor. author, and founder of Content University
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        <![CDATA[Cheryl Snapp Conner, public relations specialist, Forbes contributor. author, and founder of Content University<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>The Art of Significance with Dan Clark</title>
      <description>Dan Clark, internationally renowned speaker, shares his secrets for success.
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      <pubDate>Thu, 31 Aug 2017 21:38:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>The Art of Significance with Dan Clark</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/816a4ce4-b329-11eb-9f0f-4fe572ccf2ab/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Personal Empowerments</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Dan Clark, internationally renowned speaker, shares his secrets for success.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Dan Clark, internationally renowned speaker, shares his secrets for success.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3946</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[c7636ce92c99282db9d54949e7157a96]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8977316055.mp3?updated=1621024473" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The 7 Essential Skills for Nonprofit Leadership Success (Archive Replay)</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-7-essential-skills-for-nonprofit-leadership-success</link>
      <description>Mark S A Smith leads the Executive Strategy Skills Summit. A 36-year veteran of the business world, running his own company for 26 years, he works with companies large and small to achieve their sales and marketing goals.  For over twenty years Mark has served as a strategic advisor to corporate leaders and executives all over the world who must develop the best way to bring in the right strategies for successful growth and sustainability. What makes him different is he brings a holistic view of the business instead of solely focusing on one aspect and ignoring the impact of decisions on the rest of the organization.  Mark designs and implements leadership, sales, marketing, customer acquisition and client conversion systems that find and recruit willing buyers for products and services ranging from common every-day to high-end unique and disruptive.  He is often invited to speak at entrepreneurial and corporate events because Mark delivers unique, valuable, and pragmatic ideas to grow and succeed. With a deep understanding of international business, he worked in Europe for three years and has delivered events in 54 countries.  Mark is the author of 13 popular books and sales guides and has authored more than 400 magazine articles. He is a genuine Guerrilla Marketing guru, co-authoring three books with Jay Conrad Levinson, and is a certified Guerrilla Marketing Coach.  A renaissance man with many talents, Mark is passionate about leadership, team building, teamwork, sales, and marketing.
  
  Develop your executive skill stack:  1) Presence  2) Discipline  3) Foresight  4) Business Acumen  5) Communication skills  6) Persuasion skills  7) Decision making skills   Go check out ExecutiveStrategySummit.com/synervision for the next event and then send me an email at mark.smith@Bijaco.com and let’s schedule 30 minutes to talk about your operation. If you choose to be part of the Executive Summit, 10% of your fee is donated to the Synervision foundation.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/818e3208-b329-11eb-9f0f-bb1835849298/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh Ballou interviews Mark S A Smith on Executive Leadership Skills</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Mark S A Smith leads the Executive Strategy Skills Summit. A 36-year veteran of the business world, running his own company for 26 years, he works with companies large and small to achieve their sales and marketing goals.  For over twenty years Mark has served as a strategic advisor to corporate leaders and executives all over the world who must develop the best way to bring in the right strategies for successful growth and sustainability. What makes him different is he brings a holistic view of the business instead of solely focusing on one aspect and ignoring the impact of decisions on the rest of the organization.  Mark designs and implements leadership, sales, marketing, customer acquisition and client conversion systems that find and recruit willing buyers for products and services ranging from common every-day to high-end unique and disruptive.  He is often invited to speak at entrepreneurial and corporate events because Mark delivers unique, valuable, and pragmatic ideas to grow and succeed. With a deep understanding of international business, he worked in Europe for three years and has delivered events in 54 countries.  Mark is the author of 13 popular books and sales guides and has authored more than 400 magazine articles. He is a genuine Guerrilla Marketing guru, co-authoring three books with Jay Conrad Levinson, and is a certified Guerrilla Marketing Coach.  A renaissance man with many talents, Mark is passionate about leadership, team building, teamwork, sales, and marketing.
  
  Develop your executive skill stack:  1) Presence  2) Discipline  3) Foresight  4) Business Acumen  5) Communication skills  6) Persuasion skills  7) Decision making skills   Go check out ExecutiveStrategySummit.com/synervision for the next event and then send me an email at mark.smith@Bijaco.com and let’s schedule 30 minutes to talk about your operation. If you choose to be part of the Executive Summit, 10% of your fee is donated to the Synervision foundation.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Mark S A Smith leads the Executive Strategy Skills Summit. A 36-year veteran of the business world, running his own company for 26 years, he works with companies large and small to achieve their sales and marketing goals.<br> <br> For over twenty years Mark has served as a strategic advisor to corporate leaders and executives all over the world who must develop the best way to bring in the right strategies for successful growth and sustainability. What makes him different is he brings a holistic view of the business instead of solely focusing on one aspect and ignoring the impact of decisions on the rest of the organization.<br> <br> Mark designs and implements leadership, sales, marketing, customer acquisition and client conversion systems that find and recruit willing buyers for products and services ranging from common every-day to high-end unique and disruptive.<br> <br> He is often invited to speak at entrepreneurial and corporate events because Mark delivers unique, valuable, and pragmatic ideas to grow and succeed. With a deep understanding of international business, he worked in Europe for three years and has delivered events in 54 countries.<br> <br> Mark is the author of 13 popular books and sales guides and has authored more than 400 magazine articles. He is a genuine Guerrilla Marketing guru, co-authoring three books with Jay Conrad Levinson, and is a certified Guerrilla Marketing Coach.<br> <br> A renaissance man with many talents, Mark is passionate about leadership, team building, teamwork, sales, and marketing.</p> <p> </p> <p><br> Develop your executive skill stack:<br> <br> 1) Presence<br> <br> 2) Discipline<br> <br> 3) Foresight<br> <br> 4) Business Acumen<br> <br> 5) Communication skills<br> <br> 6) Persuasion skills<br> <br> 7) Decision making skills<br> <br> <br> Go check out <a href="http://ExecutiveStrategySummit.com/synervision">ExecutiveStrategySummit.com/synervision</a> for the next event and then send me an email at <a href="mailto:mark.smith@bijaco.com">mark.smith@Bijaco.com</a> and let’s schedule 30 minutes to talk about your operation. If you choose to be part of the Executive Summit, 10% of your fee is donated to the Synervision foundation.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2648</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[de6dd140bbd35b117681ad65bf697249]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9631891575.mp3?updated=1621009841" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Nonprofit Board Empowerment with Dr. Thyonne Gordon (Archive Replay)</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/nonprofit-board-empowerment-with-dr-thyonne-gordon</link>
      <description>Hugh Ballou Interviews Dr Gordon on Board Best Practices
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/81a668d2-b329-11eb-9f0f-9f210407d421/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh Ballou Interviews Dr Gordon on Board Best Practices</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Hugh Ballou Interviews Dr Gordon on Board Best Practices
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Hugh Ballou Interviews Dr Gordon on Board Best Practices</p> <p></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3539</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[9b275ee8110e152d0e422e8fb8b995d8]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9354397592.mp3?updated=1621009881" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Humility is Key! (Archive Replay)</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-humility-is-key</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/820e2d64-b329-11eb-9f0f-d3dc96d36b2c/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Dr. Josh Hook, Assistant Professor of Psychology, The University of North Texas</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1655</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[98d5c64fb25875076a4b64b365aaaf01]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8611800152.mp3?updated=1621009799" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Thinking about Community (Archive Replay)</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-thinking-about-community</link>
      <description>Read the Transcript
 Todd Greer: Good afternoon, and welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange Leadership Tools and Strategies. As always, I am your host, Todd Greer, Executive Director of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. Today, I come to you with a slightly different hat. Today, the hat I am wearing is the role of Managing Editor of Nonprofit Performance Magazine. Today, for the Nonprofit Exchange, I want to share with you a little bit about our upcoming issue for the magazine. Our September issue is just a few weeks away, and we are getting ready to go to the designer and to press. I wanted to share with you a little bit of insight.
 Before we do that, let’s remind you about a couple things. If you ever want to join the community and be a part of these discussions, thinking about what it looks like to serve in the social benefit sector, what does it look like to be able to engage and grow your nonprofit, we invite you to come and join us. You can find us at synervisionleadership.org, and you can feel free to join the community at /register. It’s a great opportunity for you to think about other people in your sector who are asking the same types of questions as you, to be able to draw closer to ask tough questions, to share your practices that have worked for you, and to think about new and innovative solutions to problems that are facing your community.
 We also want to remind you about our magazine, which is what we are going to be talking about today. The June issue of our magazine was focused on giving for impact. I think it’s a really important thing for people to jump in to think about high-quality information and content that we share with you every quarter. You can find that through our website at synervisionleadership.org. All you have to do is look for the Magazine button, and you will be able to access it right there.
 Also, if you have missed any old episodes of the Nonprofit Exchange, the easiest way to find those is either by going to the iTunes Store and searching for the Nonprofit Exchange, or by simply going to hangouts.synervisionleadership.org. Those are all there. They are accessible for you, and they are free and easy. Whether you are downloading or watching, you can have access to some great thought leaders from across the country as they share with you on really important topics affecting the nonprofit landscape.
 Today, as we said, we want to think of our community. It’s a subject that is really deep and important for the SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We have had a lot of blog posts about community. We have had a lot of conversations with nonprofit leaders from academics and practitioners across the globe who are talking about community. For us this time, it’s a little bit special.
 Our September issue is focusing on embracing your community. This is where it really started for us. For us, we came across a co-authored report by Commongood Careers and Level Playing Field Institute. That was called “The Voice of Nonprofit Talent.” It was really focused on the perceptions of diversity in the workplace. It was a study that was published a couple of years ago, but when we saw it in early 2015, it started to prompt some questions for us, as we thought about what is community and how do we think about it.
 We have talked a lot about community-building, asking questions about what it means for us as we think about communities to be built. What does it mean for us to think about communities as they remain intact and grow? A lot of times, we throw out conversation points like we do community management or we do community building. Those are pieces of the lexicon that are just buzzwords that we use now. We wanted to think about what is community. What does it look like?
 Peter Block, in his book aptly titled Community, he began his entire treatise with the following words. He said, “The need to create structure of belonging grows out of the isolated nature of our lives, our institutions, and our community.” As we think about community in this upcoming issue of the magazine, we want to think of this sense of membership as a way that we find identity, support, and mutual goals and drivers, but it’s also a way that we find the wholeness of community. As we sit and think about our own personal experience, they are but one in the midst of a larger community.
 We have tried to ask some deep questions as we have thought about what community looks like and how we embrace our whole community. We are really excited about the end product that is going to be coming to you soon. We have contributions from Penny Zenker. She is an expert who has joined us on the show here.
 Leah Eustace, Kathleen Latosch. They are nonprofit consultants talking about diversity.
 Al Winseman, who has joined the show. He is a senior consultant at Gallup, talking about the uniqueness and importance of unique talents in your own organization.
 We have the Second Chance Organization, based out of San Diego County. It’s a group that works with formerly incarcerated, formerly homeless, and formerly drug-addicted individuals and helps them on a journey from that place of hurt to sustainability.
 We are seeing input from the Tamerack Institute, as they think about what is community.
 We are talking to The Mission Continues, an organization working with veterans as they come back stateside about giving them a sense of focus as they think about volunteering in their own communities.
 We have input from Angela Spranger. She is a professor of management and leadership in the Newport News area. She is looking at the sense of diversity and conflict from the role of an HR practitioner.
 We are excited to be able to share with you insight from Stephen Lewis, the executive director of the Forum for Theological Inspiration.
 We are totally blown away by the opportunity to be able to think about storytelling from Miriam in the Close Up Baltimore group. They are experiencing the challenges of what happens when community is struggling in Baltimore last year. We are excited about that.
 We have some great insight from C Forbes Sargent III on board development and community.
 You will see some names you are familiar with. You will see my name. You will see Hugh Ballou, our president and founder at SynerVision.
 But for us, it’s really digging into some important questions. We want to think about what it really means to be in community. We want to think about the uniqueness in community. Sometimes, one of the first things we think about when we talk about community is the importance of diversity and inclusion. You will see the questions that surround that. You will see some prompts. Our hope is that as you think about your own community, as you think about your own organization, you will be asking those kinds of questions that make you step to the next level.
 Community is so important, and diversity and inclusion are so important. It’s not just from that idea of us thinking about a forced implementation. We want to think about proactive perspectives for diversity. How is it that we can embrace the whole community and think about opportunities unless we bring together the unique skills, abilities, and perspectives of the people that make up our community? Or what about for you as a nonprofit leader? When was the last time you had somebody that was part of your population that you were serving at the boardroom table to think about program development? We think it is extremely important, and it is vital to our growth and sustainability as nonprofit organizations, to make sure that the people we are serving are part of the development of service, not just the end user of this service. We want to think about what it looks like for us as we think about coming together. Are we truly embracing our community, or do we just have a specific niche that we have covered?
 We understand very truly that organizations cannot be a one-size-fits-all. They are not able to do everything for everyone, and I would not entice you or encourage you to do that in your nonprofit. But the question is: Are you missing out on a really important part of your community? Are you failing to give service, even in the specific type that you provide, to a specific aspect of your community? Have you thought lately about language barriers, the struggles of individuals who have English as a second language, what they are dealing with as you seek to provide them with programs, services, and resources in your community? Have you looked at what it would be for somebody who doesn’t have the experience of your community as its origination point? How about somebody in an urban community who comes from a rural background, or somebody from a suburban background in an urban setting? What does it look like? Are you bringing those voices to the table?
 Even for you, as you think about your board, are you including on your board not only people who can give money to the organization, but also people who bring a unique perspective? Are you bringing young and old? Are you bringing racial diversity? Are you bringing diversity of perspective in job functionality? What types of things are you bringing to the table as you develop your organization?
 Throughout the issue, we are going to be focusing on the importance of unique strengths and abilities of diversity and inclusion because our common theme that we are working off is a quote from Doug Floyd. Doug said, “You don’t get harmony when everybody sings the same notes.” That is really important in the nonprofit sector, too. We know it’s very easy for us to get a very specific type of person, somebody who comes in. A lot of times, what we have found is that women are overrepresented with nonprofits as compared to men, which is surprising because we don’t see that in a lot of other institutions, yet in nonprofits we do. How are we encouraging men to be a part of it, and not just in the boardroom? How are we encouraging them to be involved in various aspects of our nonprofit? We oftentimes see people later in their career who are more involved in nonprofits. But what are we doing to engage our millennial? We oftentimes see people of a higher socioeconomic status that are involved in the nonprofit sector. How are we making sure that we are embracing and encouraging the development of people that come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds?
 These are all really important questions for us, and they are important questions that we are going to be tackling throughout the September 2015 issue. We want you to think about how you can ask these important questions in your organization so that you can grow the impact of your nonprofit. We are very excited. We want you to join in with us. It’s a very important time for us as a nonprofit sector to make sure we are leading the foray into diversity and inclusion. We cannot be at the tail end. We have to be leading the surcharge, the focus. Make sure you are there leading that charge. We encourage you to ask deep and important questions as you function in your organization.
 Really excited to always join you for the Nonprofit Exchange. These are simple tidbits, tips, strategies, questions, but they are not easy. I encourage you to join in as you ask these questions in your organization. Thanks again for joining us, and we will see you next week.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/82f47d6e-b329-11eb-9f0f-1baf574f0f73/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Todd Greer</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Read the Transcript
 Todd Greer: Good afternoon, and welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange Leadership Tools and Strategies. As always, I am your host, Todd Greer, Executive Director of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. Today, I come to you with a slightly different hat. Today, the hat I am wearing is the role of Managing Editor of Nonprofit Performance Magazine. Today, for the Nonprofit Exchange, I want to share with you a little bit about our upcoming issue for the magazine. Our September issue is just a few weeks away, and we are getting ready to go to the designer and to press. I wanted to share with you a little bit of insight.
 Before we do that, let’s remind you about a couple things. If you ever want to join the community and be a part of these discussions, thinking about what it looks like to serve in the social benefit sector, what does it look like to be able to engage and grow your nonprofit, we invite you to come and join us. You can find us at synervisionleadership.org, and you can feel free to join the community at /register. It’s a great opportunity for you to think about other people in your sector who are asking the same types of questions as you, to be able to draw closer to ask tough questions, to share your practices that have worked for you, and to think about new and innovative solutions to problems that are facing your community.
 We also want to remind you about our magazine, which is what we are going to be talking about today. The June issue of our magazine was focused on giving for impact. I think it’s a really important thing for people to jump in to think about high-quality information and content that we share with you every quarter. You can find that through our website at synervisionleadership.org. All you have to do is look for the Magazine button, and you will be able to access it right there.
 Also, if you have missed any old episodes of the Nonprofit Exchange, the easiest way to find those is either by going to the iTunes Store and searching for the Nonprofit Exchange, or by simply going to hangouts.synervisionleadership.org. Those are all there. They are accessible for you, and they are free and easy. Whether you are downloading or watching, you can have access to some great thought leaders from across the country as they share with you on really important topics affecting the nonprofit landscape.
 Today, as we said, we want to think of our community. It’s a subject that is really deep and important for the SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We have had a lot of blog posts about community. We have had a lot of conversations with nonprofit leaders from academics and practitioners across the globe who are talking about community. For us this time, it’s a little bit special.
 Our September issue is focusing on embracing your community. This is where it really started for us. For us, we came across a co-authored report by Commongood Careers and Level Playing Field Institute. That was called “The Voice of Nonprofit Talent.” It was really focused on the perceptions of diversity in the workplace. It was a study that was published a couple of years ago, but when we saw it in early 2015, it started to prompt some questions for us, as we thought about what is community and how do we think about it.
 We have talked a lot about community-building, asking questions about what it means for us as we think about communities to be built. What does it mean for us to think about communities as they remain intact and grow? A lot of times, we throw out conversation points like we do community management or we do community building. Those are pieces of the lexicon that are just buzzwords that we use now. We wanted to think about what is community. What does it look like?
 Peter Block, in his book aptly titled Community, he began his entire treatise with the following words. He said, “The need to create structure of belonging grows out of the isolated nature of our lives, our institutions, and our community.” As we think about community in this upcoming issue of the magazine, we want to think of this sense of membership as a way that we find identity, support, and mutual goals and drivers, but it’s also a way that we find the wholeness of community. As we sit and think about our own personal experience, they are but one in the midst of a larger community.
 We have tried to ask some deep questions as we have thought about what community looks like and how we embrace our whole community. We are really excited about the end product that is going to be coming to you soon. We have contributions from Penny Zenker. She is an expert who has joined us on the show here.
 Leah Eustace, Kathleen Latosch. They are nonprofit consultants talking about diversity.
 Al Winseman, who has joined the show. He is a senior consultant at Gallup, talking about the uniqueness and importance of unique talents in your own organization.
 We have the Second Chance Organization, based out of San Diego County. It’s a group that works with formerly incarcerated, formerly homeless, and formerly drug-addicted individuals and helps them on a journey from that place of hurt to sustainability.
 We are seeing input from the Tamerack Institute, as they think about what is community.
 We are talking to The Mission Continues, an organization working with veterans as they come back stateside about giving them a sense of focus as they think about volunteering in their own communities.
 We have input from Angela Spranger. She is a professor of management and leadership in the Newport News area. She is looking at the sense of diversity and conflict from the role of an HR practitioner.
 We are excited to be able to share with you insight from Stephen Lewis, the executive director of the Forum for Theological Inspiration.
 We are totally blown away by the opportunity to be able to think about storytelling from Miriam in the Close Up Baltimore group. They are experiencing the challenges of what happens when community is struggling in Baltimore last year. We are excited about that.
 We have some great insight from C Forbes Sargent III on board development and community.
 You will see some names you are familiar with. You will see my name. You will see Hugh Ballou, our president and founder at SynerVision.
 But for us, it’s really digging into some important questions. We want to think about what it really means to be in community. We want to think about the uniqueness in community. Sometimes, one of the first things we think about when we talk about community is the importance of diversity and inclusion. You will see the questions that surround that. You will see some prompts. Our hope is that as you think about your own community, as you think about your own organization, you will be asking those kinds of questions that make you step to the next level.
 Community is so important, and diversity and inclusion are so important. It’s not just from that idea of us thinking about a forced implementation. We want to think about proactive perspectives for diversity. How is it that we can embrace the whole community and think about opportunities unless we bring together the unique skills, abilities, and perspectives of the people that make up our community? Or what about for you as a nonprofit leader? When was the last time you had somebody that was part of your population that you were serving at the boardroom table to think about program development? We think it is extremely important, and it is vital to our growth and sustainability as nonprofit organizations, to make sure that the people we are serving are part of the development of service, not just the end user of this service. We want to think about what it looks like for us as we think about coming together. Are we truly embracing our community, or do we just have a specific niche that we have covered?
 We understand very truly that organizations cannot be a one-size-fits-all. They are not able to do everything for everyone, and I would not entice you or encourage you to do that in your nonprofit. But the question is: Are you missing out on a really important part of your community? Are you failing to give service, even in the specific type that you provide, to a specific aspect of your community? Have you thought lately about language barriers, the struggles of individuals who have English as a second language, what they are dealing with as you seek to provide them with programs, services, and resources in your community? Have you looked at what it would be for somebody who doesn’t have the experience of your community as its origination point? How about somebody in an urban community who comes from a rural background, or somebody from a suburban background in an urban setting? What does it look like? Are you bringing those voices to the table?
 Even for you, as you think about your board, are you including on your board not only people who can give money to the organization, but also people who bring a unique perspective? Are you bringing young and old? Are you bringing racial diversity? Are you bringing diversity of perspective in job functionality? What types of things are you bringing to the table as you develop your organization?
 Throughout the issue, we are going to be focusing on the importance of unique strengths and abilities of diversity and inclusion because our common theme that we are working off is a quote from Doug Floyd. Doug said, “You don’t get harmony when everybody sings the same notes.” That is really important in the nonprofit sector, too. We know it’s very easy for us to get a very specific type of person, somebody who comes in. A lot of times, what we have found is that women are overrepresented with nonprofits as compared to men, which is surprising because we don’t see that in a lot of other institutions, yet in nonprofits we do. How are we encouraging men to be a part of it, and not just in the boardroom? How are we encouraging them to be involved in various aspects of our nonprofit? We oftentimes see people later in their career who are more involved in nonprofits. But what are we doing to engage our millennial? We oftentimes see people of a higher socioeconomic status that are involved in the nonprofit sector. How are we making sure that we are embracing and encouraging the development of people that come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds?
 These are all really important questions for us, and they are important questions that we are going to be tackling throughout the September 2015 issue. We want you to think about how you can ask these important questions in your organization so that you can grow the impact of your nonprofit. We are very excited. We want you to join in with us. It’s a very important time for us as a nonprofit sector to make sure we are leading the foray into diversity and inclusion. We cannot be at the tail end. We have to be leading the surcharge, the focus. Make sure you are there leading that charge. We encourage you to ask deep and important questions as you function in your organization.
 Really excited to always join you for the Nonprofit Exchange. These are simple tidbits, tips, strategies, questions, but they are not easy. I encourage you to join in as you ask these questions in your organization. Thanks again for joining us, and we will see you next week.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Read the Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Todd Greer:</strong> Good afternoon, and welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange Leadership Tools and Strategies. As always, I am your host, Todd Greer, Executive Director of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. Today, I come to you with a slightly different hat. Today, the hat I am wearing is the role of Managing Editor of <em>Nonprofit Performance Magazine.</em> Today, for the Nonprofit Exchange, I want to share with you a little bit about our upcoming issue for the magazine. Our September issue is just a few weeks away, and we are getting ready to go to the designer and to press. I wanted to share with you a little bit of insight.</p> <p>Before we do that, let’s remind you about a couple things. If you ever want to join the community and be a part of these discussions, thinking about what it looks like to serve in the social benefit sector, what does it look like to be able to engage and grow your nonprofit, we invite you to come and join us. You can find us at synervisionleadership.org, and you can feel free to join the community at /register. It’s a great opportunity for you to think about other people in your sector who are asking the same types of questions as you, to be able to draw closer to ask tough questions, to share your practices that have worked for you, and to think about new and innovative solutions to problems that are facing your community.</p> <p>We also want to remind you about our magazine, which is what we are going to be talking about today. The June issue of our magazine was focused on giving for impact. I think it’s a really important thing for people to jump in to think about high-quality information and content that we share with you every quarter. You can find that through our website at synervisionleadership.org. All you have to do is look for the Magazine button, and you will be able to access it right there.</p> <p>Also, if you have missed any old episodes of the Nonprofit Exchange, the easiest way to find those is either by going to the iTunes Store and searching for the Nonprofit Exchange, or by simply going to hangouts.synervisionleadership.org. Those are all there. They are accessible for you, and they are free and easy. Whether you are downloading or watching, you can have access to some great thought leaders from across the country as they share with you on really important topics affecting the nonprofit landscape.</p> <p>Today, as we said, we want to think of our community. It’s a subject that is really deep and important for the SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We have had a lot of blog posts about community. We have had a lot of conversations with nonprofit leaders from academics and practitioners across the globe who are talking about community. For us this time, it’s a little bit special.</p> <p>Our September issue is focusing on embracing your community. This is where it really started for us. For us, we came across a co-authored report by Commongood Careers and Level Playing Field Institute. That was called “The Voice of Nonprofit Talent.” It was really focused on the perceptions of diversity in the workplace. It was a study that was published a couple of years ago, but when we saw it in early 2015, it started to prompt some questions for us, as we thought about what is community and how do we think about it.</p> <p>We have talked a lot about community-building, asking questions about what it means for us as we think about communities to be built. What does it mean for us to think about communities as they remain intact and grow? A lot of times, we throw out conversation points like we do community management or we do community building. Those are pieces of the lexicon that are just buzzwords that we use now. We wanted to think about what is community. What does it look like?</p> <p>Peter Block, in his book aptly titled <em>Community,</em> he began his entire treatise with the following words. He said, “The need to create structure of belonging grows out of the isolated nature of our lives, our institutions, and our community.” As we think about community in this upcoming issue of the magazine, we want to think of this sense of membership as a way that we find identity, support, and mutual goals and drivers, but it’s also a way that we find the wholeness of community. As we sit and think about our own personal experience, they are but one in the midst of a larger community.</p> <p>We have tried to ask some deep questions as we have thought about what community looks like and how we embrace our whole community. We are really excited about the end product that is going to be coming to you soon. We have contributions from Penny Zenker. She is an expert who has joined us on the show here.</p> <p>Leah Eustace, Kathleen Latosch. They are nonprofit consultants talking about diversity.</p> <p>Al Winseman, who has joined the show. He is a senior consultant at Gallup, talking about the uniqueness and importance of unique talents in your own organization.</p> <p>We have the Second Chance Organization, based out of San Diego County. It’s a group that works with formerly incarcerated, formerly homeless, and formerly drug-addicted individuals and helps them on a journey from that place of hurt to sustainability.</p> <p>We are seeing input from the Tamerack Institute, as they think about what is community.</p> <p>We are talking to The Mission Continues, an organization working with veterans as they come back stateside about giving them a sense of focus as they think about volunteering in their own communities.</p> <p>We have input from Angela Spranger. She is a professor of management and leadership in the Newport News area. She is looking at the sense of diversity and conflict from the role of an HR practitioner.</p> <p>We are excited to be able to share with you insight from Stephen Lewis, the executive director of the Forum for Theological Inspiration.</p> <p>We are totally blown away by the opportunity to be able to think about storytelling from Miriam in the Close Up Baltimore group. They are experiencing the challenges of what happens when community is struggling in Baltimore last year. We are excited about that.</p> <p>We have some great insight from C Forbes Sargent III on board development and community.</p> <p>You will see some names you are familiar with. You will see my name. You will see Hugh Ballou, our president and founder at SynerVision.</p> <p>But for us, it’s really digging into some important questions. We want to think about what it really means to be in community. We want to think about the uniqueness in community. Sometimes, one of the first things we think about when we talk about community is the importance of diversity and inclusion. You will see the questions that surround that. You will see some prompts. Our hope is that as you think about your own community, as you think about your own organization, you will be asking those kinds of questions that make you step to the next level.</p> <p>Community is so important, and diversity and inclusion are so important. It’s not just from that idea of us thinking about a forced implementation. We want to think about proactive perspectives for diversity. How is it that we can embrace the whole community and think about opportunities unless we bring together the unique skills, abilities, and perspectives of the people that make up our community? Or what about for you as a nonprofit leader? When was the last time you had somebody that was part of your population that you were serving at the boardroom table to think about program development? We think it is extremely important, and it is vital to our growth and sustainability as nonprofit organizations, to make sure that the people we are serving are part of the development of service, not just the end user of this service. We want to think about what it looks like for us as we think about coming together. Are we truly embracing our community, or do we just have a specific niche that we have covered?</p> <p>We understand very truly that organizations cannot be a one-size-fits-all. They are not able to do everything for everyone, and I would not entice you or encourage you to do that in your nonprofit. But the question is: Are you missing out on a really important part of your community? Are you failing to give service, even in the specific type that you provide, to a specific aspect of your community? Have you thought lately about language barriers, the struggles of individuals who have English as a second language, what they are dealing with as you seek to provide them with programs, services, and resources in your community? Have you looked at what it would be for somebody who doesn’t have the experience of your community as its origination point? How about somebody in an urban community who comes from a rural background, or somebody from a suburban background in an urban setting? What does it look like? Are you bringing those voices to the table?</p> <p>Even for you, as you think about your board, are you including on your board not only people who can give money to the organization, but also people who bring a unique perspective? Are you bringing young and old? Are you bringing racial diversity? Are you bringing diversity of perspective in job functionality? What types of things are you bringing to the table as you develop your organization?</p> <p>Throughout the issue, we are going to be focusing on the importance of unique strengths and abilities of diversity and inclusion because our common theme that we are working off is a quote from Doug Floyd. Doug said, “You don’t get harmony when everybody sings the same notes.” That is really important in the nonprofit sector, too. We know it’s very easy for us to get a very specific type of person, somebody who comes in. A lot of times, what we have found is that women are overrepresented with nonprofits as compared to men, which is surprising because we don’t see that in a lot of other institutions, yet in nonprofits we do. How are we encouraging men to be a part of it, and not just in the boardroom? How are we encouraging them to be involved in various aspects of our nonprofit? We oftentimes see people later in their career who are more involved in nonprofits. But what are we doing to engage our millennial? We oftentimes see people of a higher socioeconomic status that are involved in the nonprofit sector. How are we making sure that we are embracing and encouraging the development of people that come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds?</p> <p>These are all really important questions for us, and they are important questions that we are going to be tackling throughout the September 2015 issue. We want you to think about how you can ask these important questions in your organization so that you can grow the impact of your nonprofit. We are very excited. We want you to join in with us. It’s a very important time for us as a nonprofit sector to make sure we are leading the foray into diversity and inclusion. We cannot be at the tail end. We have to be leading the surcharge, the focus. Make sure you are there leading that charge. We encourage you to ask deep and important questions as you function in your organization.</p> <p>Really excited to always join you for the Nonprofit Exchange. These are simple tidbits, tips, strategies, questions, but they are not easy. I encourage you to join in as you ask these questions in your organization. Thanks again for joining us, and we will see you next week.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>The Drucker Challenge: Managing Oneself in the Digital Age (Archive Replay)</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-drucker-challenge-managing-oneself-in-the-digital-age</link>
      <description>On June 8, 2015 the following interview was recorded:
 Peter Drucker, the father of Modern Management, long ago pioneered the idea of the knowledge worker. With the advent of the knowledge worker came the concept of managing oneself. Drucker stated “more and more people in the workforce…will have to manage themselves. They will have to place themselves where they can make the great contributions; they will have to learn to develop themselves” (Drucker, Management Challenges for the 21st Century, p. 163).
 Frances Hesselbein, CEO of The Hesselbein Leadership Institute, co-author of Drucker’s Five Most Important Questions, and dear friend of the late-Peter Drucker.
 Joan Snyder Kuhl, founder of Why Millennials Matter, an international speaker, and co-author of Drucker’s Five Most Important Questions.
 Paul Sohn, has a heart for equipping, connecting and transforming the next generation of leaders through his work as a Leadership Coach and Purpose Weaver.
 The Drucker Challenge will take place in Vienna, Austria on November 5th and 6th and asks the question, “what will it take to manage oneself in the digital age?”
 Tune in as we discuss this important challenge of “Managing Oneself in the Digital Age”, discuss the Drucker Challenge competition, and connect young professionals here in the United States to the international forum!
 Interview Transcript
 The Drucker Challenge, Managing Oneself in the Digital Age 
 Todd Greer: Hello, and welcome to a very special episode of The Nonprofit Exchange: Leadership Tools and Strategies. So thrilled to be able to welcome in the amazing, wonderful panelists for our roundtable on The Drucker Challenge. Today, we are joined by Frances Hesselbein, Joan Kuhl, and Paul Sohn. So thrilled to have you here. We are talking about some extremely important things, one being the primary legacy of Peter Drucker. I want to welcome you in and let you know who is with us today on the program.
 Our first guest with us today is Frances Hesselbein. She is an amazing woman. She is the president and CEO of the Frances Hesselbein Leadership Institute. She is its founding president. Prior to founding the institute, she served as the CEO for the Girl Scouts USA. Between 1965 and 1976, she rose from troop leader to CEO, holding the position of CEO for 14 years. During her time, she grew the organization into a monster of a wonderful organization, bringing girls in from all parts of our society. Whether you are talking rural, urban, or suburban, Frances led the effort to bring girls in, to give them programming, to help them grow their efficacy and understanding of what it takes to be successful. In 1998, she was honored by President Bill Clinton with the Presidential Medal of Freedom for her work with Girl Scouts USA. Today, she is the editor-in-chief of Leader to Leader Journal, she is the author of a zillion different books, including a half dozen seen behind my shoulders. She is a lead author on the recently released Peter Drucker’s Five Most Important Questions. Frances, we are so absolutely thrilled to have you in with us.
 Frances Hesselbein: Well, I am so thrilled to be with you.
 Todd: Frances, right next to you is Joan Kuhl. Joan is the founder of Why Millennials Matter. She is an international speaker. She is a multi-time successful book author. She has dabbled in both business and health care, but she has found her niche in mentoring and developing millennials across the country and truly across the globe. She has been mentoring millennials for a decade now, which is a beautiful message because she is only 17 herself. She has an MBA. She is a certified instructor. She does so much to lead and let organizations understand what it looks like to work with millennials. Her advice has been in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Leader to Leader. Cosmopolitan Magazine has chosen her to be part of their inaugural Millennial Board of Advisors. She has been featured at amazing places like 92Y; just last week, she was speaking there. She has written The First Globals: Understanding, Managing, and Unleashing Millennial Generation with John Zobbie. She is a keynote and panelist all over the country. Joan, thrilled to have you in with us.
 Joan Kuhl: Thank you, Todd. I am so excited to be with all of you.
 Todd: Last but certainly not least, we have our young man on the panel, Paul Sohn. Paul is a leadership consultant, blogger, and author. He has worked with Fortune 100 companies and is now working with Giant Worldwide as a consultant. He has been ranked as one of the world’s top 50 leadership bloggers to follow. Paul is listed as one of the top 33 under 33 Christian millennials by Christianity Today. He is pursuing a graduate degree at Pepperdine University, the world’s premier organizational development master’s program. Paul, wow, we are thrilled to have you on the program as well.
 Paul Sohn: It’s an honor, Todd. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
 Todd: Look, folks, I am just thrilled to be here with three amazing panelists, three amazing guests. We want to dig into some really important topics. I want to start with a really important question. I am going to ask you this, Frances. Frances, who is Peter Drucker?
 Frances: Peter Drucker is and was the founder of modern management and has had the greatest impact upon leaders in all three sectors, with hundreds of books and films and videos all bringing the Drucker philosophy alive to leaders at every level across the organization. He is skilled at the language of leadership with maxims such as “Think first, speak last.” Another one I love is, “Ask, don’t tell.” That could be translated into any language and moves easily around the world. When Peter Drucker says that your mission should fit on a T-shirt, he began a not-so-quiet revolution that would continue to celebrate and share in today.
 Todd: It’s an amazing thing. We look at the lasting legacy of Peter Drucker. Frances, you obviously had the wonderful experience of not just a partnership and working alongside him, but a friendship. What do we think of as Drucker’s legacy? What do we still see today?
 Frances: When Peter Drucker instilled the language of leadership and when he moves his three questions across all three sectors, what is our mission, who is our customer, what does the customer value, and once we have published this, celebrated it, put it on posters, he said, “No, no, there are five questions.” What is our mission? Who is the customer? What does a customer value? Then what about results? What is our plan? He said, “If you don’t end up with a plan, a good time was had by all, and that is all.”
 Todd: Absolutely. It’s a beautiful thing. It’s interesting because we have Paul who is a millennial; I am a cusper; Joan, I think you’re right in that cusper level, but just barely on the X side if I’m right; but each of us have been profoundly implicated by the legacy of Peter Drucker. It’s one of those things that you start to think about what has been passed down to us over the years.
 A quick snippet. I am currently reading Innovation and Entrepreneurship by Peter Drucker. It’s a book that came out in 1984. I was three years old. Yet the things that Peter Drucker talks about in that book are the same key areas that are being talked about all across the world in all three sectors. Frances, you hit the nail on the head.
 Frances: Yes, and we continue; even after Peter passed, we changed the name. We began as the Peter Drucker Leadership Institute, but to us, it is still the Peter Drucker Institute. Our job is to move Peter across the country and around the world.
 Todd: Speaking of moving around the world, we’ve got something really important that we want to be talking about, which is the Drucker Forum. Joan, talk to us a little bit about what this Drucker forum is and the corresponding global Drucker Challenge.
 Joan: It is so exciting. The Frances Hesselbein Leadership Institute is a huge fan and supporter of the Global Drucker Challenge, and the International Drucker Forum is actually one of the leading management congresses in Europe. It brings together extraordinary dynamic leaders of every sector, talking about Peter’s philosophies. This is now going into the sixth year. This international forum takes place in Peter’s birthplace, Vienna, Austria, in November of each year, and the dates are November 5-6. It’s also live-streaming. Those of us who can’t be there in person can experience it online, as Frances and I did this past year. It’s an extraordinary forum of really innovative thinking. To our point, but also thinking about how Peter’s wisdom is timeless.
 What we are excited to share today is this huge opportunity for millennials to grow as a community of followers of Drucker, but also compete for an opportunity to be at this forum in Austria. There is a cash prize as well. What is based on, this Global Peter Drucker Challenge, it shares the same mission that we have that Frances spoke to, which is really to expose new emerging leaders’ work and have them make it relevant to themselves, what they are seeing, what their experiences are, what their goals are. It’s an essay competition, and there are two categories. There is one for students and one for young professionals. This year, the topic is Managing Oneself in the Digital Age: The Human Side of Technology. Basically what you need to do is submit an essay, 1,500-3,000 words, outlining your perspective and your experiences on this topic. If you go to both the institute's website, Why Millennials Matter, or druckerchallenge.org, where you can find all the information, it’s suggested that you download a copy of a chapter that Peter wrote about managing oneself. I know we will talk about that further, but that is a great starting point for all of you who want to enter the competition. Read Drucker’s Managing Oneself, and start to think about how you’d apply that to that topic.
 Todd: Joan, I think somebody is calling in for a second because they were really intrigued by participating. They got right on the phone. Let me stop right for a second and let you know that if you are on the SynerVision webpage, you can chat and ask some questions there. That will be an opportunity, whether we can answer them live on air or answer them after the fact, for you to engage with Frances, Joan, Paul, or myself going forward.
 Joan: Great. I wanted to say that the deadline is July 15. We are very excited and anxious to spread the word about the challenge and get online today to answer any questions and talk a little bit about it. I think that one thing that we are going to find extraordinary is as Frances and I have been traveling and talking to college students, how much our recent book The Five Questions has been relevant and valuable and interesting to today’s students and professionals. We can’t wait to hear the type of thinking that will evolve out of this contest.
 Todd: I want to point out to anybody who is sitting watching from work or their home office or wherever they may be as they take this in archive form. The new edition of Peter Drucker’s Five Most Important Questions has taken and distilled down these five great questions that Frances referred to earlier and broken them into really important pieces. We know some of the lasting legacy leaders like Marshall Goldsmith and Jim Collins and others of this nature, you see the legacy of Peter Drucker living in them. We have also seen in this edition millennials be engaged to deep dive into these important questions. I think that is something really important. Kudos to the two of you, Frances and Joan, for taking that next step to think about how we make these concepts accessible to each generation as they go forward. I know Paul and I have both really enjoyed the book and thinking about those questions. The questions are simple, but they certainly are not easy. I think you have done a wonderful job in making that accessible for us.
 I want to take that next step because Joan, you talked about the question that serves as the Drucker Challenge question, which is: What does it look like to manage oneself in the 21st century? I want to dig first into that concept of managing oneself. Frances, if you would, talk a little bit about what it means to manage oneself.
 Frances: Managing oneself is a millennial concept. It is the millennial’s language that we have just grabbed. My generation, perhaps yours, too, does not think so much as managing oneself as unleashing or liberating oneself. Self-management is a contemporary term. Most managers are comfortable with it. They can trust the work within the concepts. Others prefer language that uses the concept of leadership rather than management. We understand what it really means to manage oneself.
 Todd: I think that is a really interesting thing. Obviously, you bring up that shift and how we think about it. Joan, would you touch on how the concept really has shifted into the 21st century? The challenge even talks about a digital age. What does that look like?
 Joan: What I love about our youngest generation in the workplace today, millennials, is they are hungry for and craving leadership resources. They aspire to be people who make a difference. Their definition of success is through personal fulfillment. They want that greater role. You think about the role of technology in all of this. What we talk to students and young professionals a lot about is how important it is to be conscientious of your personal brand. Your brand lives in three places. It’s in person, how you present yourself and how you connect personally. It’s on paper, still the traditional ways of resumes and portfolios. Third, it’s online. Thinking about how you share your own thought leadership. When we talk to students today, we tell them that everybody has something to contribute and to share.
 To Frances’s point about how millennials, this is the millennial language of managing oneself, Peter himself in the essay Managing Oneself talks about how you can look at your own strengths, how you can ask for feedback and why that is a really good thing to get others’ perspectives, and how you can continue to shine by evolving those skills into greatness versus feeling overwhelmed by your weaknesses. He talks about how to figure out where you belong, what your contribution is. That deeper sense of who am I, what is my role in this world, is completely a complement to what we know students and young professionals are craving today. I think really using social media, technology, like we are doing today, to spread those messages around the world to their peers, to new audiences is what makes this time really exciting.
 Todd: I think that is such an important thing. We have seen a shift in this millennial generation. We have this massive boom. They are technology-savvy, not just technology-savvy, but it’s intuitive to them. We have grown up with this.
 Paul, what do you see? You are a millennial here. We have kind of kept you quiet for a little while. Kudos to you because they say millennials can’t keep quiet. Only teasing. What do you see?
 Paul: As Joan said, millennials are wrestling with the issue of managing yourself in this digital age. Honestly, I think we are living in a very noisy world. Our generation are plugged in 24/7. We are constantly bombarded with messages and images of what our friends are doing on social media. There is one interesting study that I found that seven out of ten millennials are experiencing FOMO, which is Fear of Missing Out. This is an anxiety that you see when you have friends on Facebook or Instagram that seem like they are having the time of their life. You think to yourself, What am I doing here? I want to be there. I want to be doing all this. Instead of leading your lives based on who you are, you are basing your lives on the expectations of the pressures of this world. One question I think that could be helpful to millennials to ask ourselves is what does it look like to be on the other side of you? I think that is a really important question for us to think about. Having the discipline to unplug ourselves from electronics and social media and start going back to the basics of journaling and thinking about who I am, what my tendencies are, what my strengths are. One thing that has helped me particularly is creating this personal board of directors. Being able to identify mentors and coaches around me and through these conversations, I discover who I am. I discover my strengths. With the concrete feedback that they give me, it helps me discover who I really am.
 Todd: That’s a great point.
 Frances: When I speak to groups of millennials, I say, “Yes” every chance I have because it is so fascinating because it is circular. A study says that today 18-28’s are more like the 1930s and 1940s than any cohort since. We call the ‘30s and ‘40s the greatest generation. They often ask, “Could you repeat that please?”
 Todd: Absolutely. I know that you have often talked about millennials, Frances, or at least we share in our magazine about the next great generation. There is some really exciting pieces for them. As we talk about these concepts, we are talking about how do we as millennials link to the legacy of wisdom that has come from those before us? One of the terms that Peter coined that really stands out is this right here: It’s the knowledge worker. What does it mean to be a knowledge worker? If you don’t mind talking about what it means to be a knowledge worker, Frances.
 Frances: It’s very simple. Knowledge workers use brains. Knowledge workers use their brains, and they are very comfortable with all kinds of communication. More than any other group, they understand communication is not saying something, communication is being heard. A knowledge worker must first have the knowledge messages they wish to communicate. They are very good at distilling the language. We don’t need eight paragraphs. A powerful one or two will do it. The divide between the manual workers and the knowledge worker is vast. There is a growing number of knowledge workers because of this vast number of millennials entering the workforce. Recent studies show that millennials today are more like the workforce of the ‘30s and ‘40s than any cohort since. May I add, we call them the greatest generation.
 Joan: I am going to add, too. The thing about millennials embodying the knowledge worker is that they absolutely feel like they can be multiple experts in a number of different subjects because they have access to so much information. The knowledge worker is someone who never stops in that quest of learning and evolving and contributing. Ironically, a lot of millennials, regardless of where they are employed, studies are showing that more often they want to start a business, are inspired to start a business, have a side hustle, or have some type of engagement, whether it be in a nonprofit serving as a volunteer or as a board member. That really embodies this sense of wanting to be a lifelong learner and contributor.
 Todd: That’s a great point. As a millennial yourself, Paul, what are you seeing? It is almost to the point that we don’t even use that knowledge worker framing anymore because everybody is expected to be that, right?
 Paul: It’s part of our generation. I don’t think that a lot of millennials actually think about knowledge work because it is part of who we are, it is part of our lives. I see that the jobs of tomorrow haven’t even existed today. Many of these jobs of tomorrow will be knowledge work for sure.
 Todd: Great point. In Peter’s essay on managing oneself, he talks about the importance of knowing one’s strengths and weaknesses. I know that is a really important topic. I personally am a big fan of the work that stemmed from Dr. Clifton and his strengths approach. Tomorrow, on the program here, Al Weisman from the Gallup Institute is going to be joining us. Paul, what are you seeing? You briefly talked before about strengths and weaknesses. How imperative is it for me as a knowledge worker to know those things?
 Paul: I think it is huge in this generation. As I said, a lot of these jobs of tomorrow haven’t even existed today. That means that we are living in a generation where we have so many options, so many different paths to pursue. Without gaining a greater clarity around who we are, knowing our strengths and our weaknesses will really help us to be able to identify a career which we feel will be at our vocational sweet spot. It is huge to distill within and identify those strengths and weaknesses and have an objective understanding of who you are.
 Todd: How do we learn them, Paul?
 Paul: As you said, Todd, Strengths Finder is great. I am a big fan. For millennials out there who haven’t done a lot of assessments, I think it’s a great starter. One caveat I would say is that a lot of these self-assessments focus on your limited understanding of yourself. A lot of us in our 20’s are in a period of still discovering who we are. We can easily deceive ourselves when we are trying to fill out these surveys and look at these reports because we are still learning about ourselves. One thing I think would really help is to engage your inner circle of influence. People who are part of your work or church or personal life, asking them for specific stories about you and asking them to be objective and concrete about it, questions like “Tell me a time when I excelled,” or “Tell me a time when I was fully alive.” These are really important questions for us to ask. Once we receive that feedback, our job is then to identify if there is any common themes that come out of that. Through that, we will be able to get a better understanding of what those things are that I do really well and what are some of those weaknesses as a leader and how I mitigate those weaknesses and leverage my strengths.
 Todd: That’s a great point. You summarized that so well. That very much fits what we see from Peter Drucker in his chapter on managing oneself, the importance of bringing in those advisors, those people that surround us and see us in action.
 I am going to move into a really interesting question. This is one that I think is a great challenge to all of us. I am going to open the discussion for each of the three of you with the question: How can I balance my individual reality with that of others? That is a big challenge in this 21st century.
 Joan: To pick up where Paul left off, which was fantastic advice, one thing that I have shared with students is to think about how others perceive you. How do others see you? You have that on one side. The other side is think about how you want them to see you, what you believe is within yourself, and match those up. Look to see if there is a gap. That is where the road map for your development comes from. More importantly, to Paul’s point, you need to have some allies, some mentors, some people within your personal board of advisors—I have always advocated for that. I think that’s great advice, Paul—that are willing to have those honest conversations with you.
 Another approach I tell students and even young professionals at work is to find a success buddy. Find someone, a peer, a colleague, a friend, who is around your same stage in life and in your career and talk through these concepts and give each other feedback. Think through questions that you can ask mentors. Remember, mentors are anywhere. They can be professors, administration, former colleagues, former managers. I think that Paul is right. When you are so overwhelmed with the grandiose lifestyles in your face on social media, I can be easy to get overwhelmed by what others are doing and underwhelmed by your own personal accomplishments. It is an important thing to center yourself around your mission and your personal values first.
 Frances: It is so important also to realize that leadership is not a destination. I often have young leaders say to me, “I know I want to be a real leader, but how will I know when I get there?” I can say, “Leadership is not a destination. Leadership is a journey.” We not only choose where and how we are going, but we choose our fellow travelers very carefully. I think you mentioned much the same.
 Todd: I think that’s such a great point here. I love the idea of finding other people that are alongside you in the journey. One thing I think is important for us, and I am going to put my two cents in, and then Paul, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, is when we think about the finding of the individual reality with that of others, one thing we are learning more and more is the importance of empathy. Recognizing the need to find empathy in the other. We are recognizing whether it’s organizations like IDO who are going out to seek to solve world problems through that idea of first finding empathy with the end user, or we are talking about even advertisers today. Marketers and advertisers are recognizing until I recognize and have empathy for the person using the product, I can’t truly design something for them. I would encourage us to think through the need to find and hold onto that empathic perspective. Paul?
 Paul: I resonate with everything you guys have been saying. Empathy is huge in this generation. The fact is, a lot of millennials are so widely connected these days, but on a very surface level. We used to have these one on one relationships with people around us, but now we are having all these wider connections on social media for instance. One thing that I notice is people are always tied to their Smartphones. They are always typing away and connecting. Although there are great benefits that come with that, part of it is we lose that sense to understand and feel the other person. I think that is the foundation of emotional intelligent leaders, the new style of leadership.
 Todd: One thing we are seeing more and more is this conversation about lifelong learning. If you guys each would talk briefly about what role learning has played for you and also for the knowledge worker in the 21st century, what role does learning play?
 Frances: Critical role. If we do not learn every day, and if learning is not part of our journey, and all kinds of learning from all kinds of people, then we become part of the past. Learning across the sectors, not just one area, but as Peter Drucker used to say, I look out the window and see what is visible but not yet seen. That is one of our great challenges. It’s all out there. We look out the window.
 Joan: Our work, and clearly yours as well, both of you, is all about opening doors and all about creating and developing and inspiring new resources for emerging leaders particularly but also tenured leaders to think about some of these big ideas. At the end of the day, self-development, if you are looking for your company or your management to be responsible for you, you have it all wrong. It’s an ownership thing. You own your own self-development. To Frances’s point, you have to continue to be on that journey to expose yourself to diverse thinking and ideas. That is the whole point of this Drucker Challenge. The beauty of Peter’s wisdom is to push you to think about things like management and leadership and how you impact others and what is happening inside you, and then reflect on how that resonates with you. What clicks for you? Share that back with the world.
 Frances: Think first, speak last. Ask, don’t tell. We have all had people in a room say, “I told him and told him and told him, and he still didn’t get it.” No, no, no. Ask, don’t tell.
 Todd: I’ll say I cannot document that this is something that actually occurred, but somebody shared with me recently: Somebody came to Peter and asked him, “How did you get to be so smart? How did you get to be so wise?” His answer was, “I have CEOs of companies coming in to talk to me, and I listen.” I think that is a foundational part of learning: the willingness to listen. Paul?
 Paul: That is a great point. Another thing that I would like to add to that is just having the sense of inquisitiveness, a sense of curiosity is the source of true learning. We can talk about all the strategic reasons of why learning is important, but unless it is coming from your internal motivation, this intrinsic desire to learn more and be curious, that opens up so many doors for opportunities. Whenever you are with someone new or are reading a book, you are asking, “Why? How come? What is this for?” These questions will lead us to deeper inquiry and a deeper relationship with these things. It’s huge.
 Todd: Joan, let me ask you this last question before we start to draw everything to a close. Can anybody actually manage themselves if they don’t have an awareness of who they are?
 Joan: I love that question. The truth is that yes, this is an internal quest. I think I also want to point out, as we said earlier, that leadership can start at any age. We want to encourage as young as possible for them to think about and have that self-awareness.
 Quick story. I was on a community college campus in New York City, and I saw a young girl carrying around one of Marshall Goldsmith’s books. I thought that was interesting. I grabbed her and said, “We have a new book coming out. Marshall is in it, and he has a new book.” She looked so surprised that I asked about this book. I asked her where she got it, and she said, “Well, I know I’m not a real leader myself, but I saw this book in the Sale section, and I thought maybe if I read this, I one day can be.” That hit me right here. That is the purpose of our work. I told her absolutely is she right now a leader. Absolutely. She is in control of that. We gave her our information. That is what we have to be on the lookout for. There is a lot of pressure and anxiety being young in a world that is visible online everywhere. We want to help them connect internally, to be a better manager and a leader of others first.
 Frances: We define leadership as a matter of how to be, not how to do. For young leaders that makes sense.
 Todd: Let’s go ahead and dig back in. Joan, if you would, you guys have the Five Most Important Questions. It has done amazingly well. People are getting excited again about the questions you have shared with us enduring wisdom. I love that tagline. You can find it on druckerchallenge.org or whymillennialsmatter.com. Bring us back here to what you are talking about. Joan, give us that reminder of how we get involved in it and what it looks like for us to think about that question.
 Joan: Druckerchallenge.org is where you go to get the direct information. This is such an exciting opportunity. If I challenge everyone that is listening today to just download that free chapter that Peter wrote on managing oneself, it will hit home. It will help you be more reflective about your own path to leadership. We talked about our strengths, our contribution, who you surround yourself with, the communities that really work to help you flourish and excel in life and feel satisfied. Druckerchallenge.org. The deadline is July 15. You have to submit an essay between 1,500 and 3,000 words. I would encourage you to work with a mentor or friend. Have someone review your essay before you submit it. But don’t hesitate. Don’t second-guess yourself or your thoughts or your ideas. Everybody has something to add in this conversation. Again, the prizes are incredible. They are saving 20 seats for the top winners to attend the challenge itself in Vienna, Austria, and then you are connected to this unbelievable, dynamic, and thoughtful community of other Drucker fans and followers.
 Todd: Let me again reiterate this has been an amazing journey. The four of us are on this call today simply because we believe in it. We believe in the enduring wisdom of Peter Drucker. We believe in the enduring wisdom of not only Peter, but also in those who have taken to heart the things that Peter taught. We sit here. I know Paul, Joan, and myself sit here and learn consistently from Frances. Frances, you have really lived that legacy well. You’re teaching each of us so many amazing things. I am so thankful to your work at the Frances Hesselbein Leadership Institute of what you have done. I am thankful to Joan of Why Millennials Matter and to Paul and his leadership legacy he is building in young leaders. Folks, we are so thrilled to be part of this journey. I want to say thank you to the Young Nonprofit Professional Network. They have been so helpful in helping to publicize this great work. They serve to help promote in this third sector what the good and perfect legacy of Peter Drucker is as we think about moving forward. Reminder: Check out what is happening. There is some amazing things that are occurring with the Drucker Challenge and the International Forum. A great opportunity to get involved with it, as Joan shared with us today. We have just barely touched the tip of the iceberg in this discussion. So many places to go. Paul, Frances, Joan, if you want to leave us here with one last word of wisdom and then we will close.
 Frances: I would leave Peter Drucker’s wisdom with you. Think first, speak last. Ask, don’t tell. When they walk around and you understand leadership is a matter of how to be, not how to do, then you are well along that journey to effective leadership.
 Joan: Todd, Frances and I both want to say thank you so much. You have been such a phenomenal partner. SynerVision, Nonprofit Performance Magazine, you inspire us with how hands-on and passionate you are about your work. That is what I would echo in my closing thoughts. Seeing someone like you and how you are a lifelong learner and you love to connect and ask people about their thoughts and questions, that is why we wanted to spread the word on the Drucker Challenge. I hope that everyone who listens or reads to this, I hope they know that they all have an important message to share and we want to hear it. This is an opportunity to do so.
 Paul: Thanks so much again, everyone for giving me the opportunity to be here. As a millennial myself, this is a very important message that I hope a lot of my fellow millennials would watch and be able to understand the impact of Peter Drucker’s legacy on the next generations of leaders. Thanks again for giving me the opportunity to be here.
 Todd: Folks, we are so thrilled to have you in with us. Whether you are going to Vienna for the Drucker Forum or will be able to participate in the livestream of it, we really believe there is lasting wisdom for each of us to attain. No matter how old or young we are, we are all lifelong learners. So thrilled again to have the Hesselbein Leadership Institute, Why Millennials Matter, and Paul Sohn of PaulSohn.com. You can take a look at the work they are all doing. Each one of us stands here because we believe that we have an opportunity to engage and develop leaders as we go forward. Thanks for joining us. Appreciate having you in here with us.
 Frances, Joan, Paul: Thank you!
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      <pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/830fc88a-b329-11eb-9f0f-f35400c1050c/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Frances Hesselbein, Joan Kuhl, and Paul Sohn</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>On June 8, 2015 the following interview was recorded:
 Peter Drucker, the father of Modern Management, long ago pioneered the idea of the knowledge worker. With the advent of the knowledge worker came the concept of managing oneself. Drucker stated “more and more people in the workforce…will have to manage themselves. They will have to place themselves where they can make the great contributions; they will have to learn to develop themselves” (Drucker, Management Challenges for the 21st Century, p. 163).
 Frances Hesselbein, CEO of The Hesselbein Leadership Institute, co-author of Drucker’s Five Most Important Questions, and dear friend of the late-Peter Drucker.
 Joan Snyder Kuhl, founder of Why Millennials Matter, an international speaker, and co-author of Drucker’s Five Most Important Questions.
 Paul Sohn, has a heart for equipping, connecting and transforming the next generation of leaders through his work as a Leadership Coach and Purpose Weaver.
 The Drucker Challenge will take place in Vienna, Austria on November 5th and 6th and asks the question, “what will it take to manage oneself in the digital age?”
 Tune in as we discuss this important challenge of “Managing Oneself in the Digital Age”, discuss the Drucker Challenge competition, and connect young professionals here in the United States to the international forum!
 Interview Transcript
 The Drucker Challenge, Managing Oneself in the Digital Age 
 Todd Greer: Hello, and welcome to a very special episode of The Nonprofit Exchange: Leadership Tools and Strategies. So thrilled to be able to welcome in the amazing, wonderful panelists for our roundtable on The Drucker Challenge. Today, we are joined by Frances Hesselbein, Joan Kuhl, and Paul Sohn. So thrilled to have you here. We are talking about some extremely important things, one being the primary legacy of Peter Drucker. I want to welcome you in and let you know who is with us today on the program.
 Our first guest with us today is Frances Hesselbein. She is an amazing woman. She is the president and CEO of the Frances Hesselbein Leadership Institute. She is its founding president. Prior to founding the institute, she served as the CEO for the Girl Scouts USA. Between 1965 and 1976, she rose from troop leader to CEO, holding the position of CEO for 14 years. During her time, she grew the organization into a monster of a wonderful organization, bringing girls in from all parts of our society. Whether you are talking rural, urban, or suburban, Frances led the effort to bring girls in, to give them programming, to help them grow their efficacy and understanding of what it takes to be successful. In 1998, she was honored by President Bill Clinton with the Presidential Medal of Freedom for her work with Girl Scouts USA. Today, she is the editor-in-chief of Leader to Leader Journal, she is the author of a zillion different books, including a half dozen seen behind my shoulders. She is a lead author on the recently released Peter Drucker’s Five Most Important Questions. Frances, we are so absolutely thrilled to have you in with us.
 Frances Hesselbein: Well, I am so thrilled to be with you.
 Todd: Frances, right next to you is Joan Kuhl. Joan is the founder of Why Millennials Matter. She is an international speaker. She is a multi-time successful book author. She has dabbled in both business and health care, but she has found her niche in mentoring and developing millennials across the country and truly across the globe. She has been mentoring millennials for a decade now, which is a beautiful message because she is only 17 herself. She has an MBA. She is a certified instructor. She does so much to lead and let organizations understand what it looks like to work with millennials. Her advice has been in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Leader to Leader. Cosmopolitan Magazine has chosen her to be part of their inaugural Millennial Board of Advisors. She has been featured at amazing places like 92Y; just last week, she was speaking there. She has written The First Globals: Understanding, Managing, and Unleashing Millennial Generation with John Zobbie. She is a keynote and panelist all over the country. Joan, thrilled to have you in with us.
 Joan Kuhl: Thank you, Todd. I am so excited to be with all of you.
 Todd: Last but certainly not least, we have our young man on the panel, Paul Sohn. Paul is a leadership consultant, blogger, and author. He has worked with Fortune 100 companies and is now working with Giant Worldwide as a consultant. He has been ranked as one of the world’s top 50 leadership bloggers to follow. Paul is listed as one of the top 33 under 33 Christian millennials by Christianity Today. He is pursuing a graduate degree at Pepperdine University, the world’s premier organizational development master’s program. Paul, wow, we are thrilled to have you on the program as well.
 Paul Sohn: It’s an honor, Todd. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
 Todd: Look, folks, I am just thrilled to be here with three amazing panelists, three amazing guests. We want to dig into some really important topics. I want to start with a really important question. I am going to ask you this, Frances. Frances, who is Peter Drucker?
 Frances: Peter Drucker is and was the founder of modern management and has had the greatest impact upon leaders in all three sectors, with hundreds of books and films and videos all bringing the Drucker philosophy alive to leaders at every level across the organization. He is skilled at the language of leadership with maxims such as “Think first, speak last.” Another one I love is, “Ask, don’t tell.” That could be translated into any language and moves easily around the world. When Peter Drucker says that your mission should fit on a T-shirt, he began a not-so-quiet revolution that would continue to celebrate and share in today.
 Todd: It’s an amazing thing. We look at the lasting legacy of Peter Drucker. Frances, you obviously had the wonderful experience of not just a partnership and working alongside him, but a friendship. What do we think of as Drucker’s legacy? What do we still see today?
 Frances: When Peter Drucker instilled the language of leadership and when he moves his three questions across all three sectors, what is our mission, who is our customer, what does the customer value, and once we have published this, celebrated it, put it on posters, he said, “No, no, there are five questions.” What is our mission? Who is the customer? What does a customer value? Then what about results? What is our plan? He said, “If you don’t end up with a plan, a good time was had by all, and that is all.”
 Todd: Absolutely. It’s a beautiful thing. It’s interesting because we have Paul who is a millennial; I am a cusper; Joan, I think you’re right in that cusper level, but just barely on the X side if I’m right; but each of us have been profoundly implicated by the legacy of Peter Drucker. It’s one of those things that you start to think about what has been passed down to us over the years.
 A quick snippet. I am currently reading Innovation and Entrepreneurship by Peter Drucker. It’s a book that came out in 1984. I was three years old. Yet the things that Peter Drucker talks about in that book are the same key areas that are being talked about all across the world in all three sectors. Frances, you hit the nail on the head.
 Frances: Yes, and we continue; even after Peter passed, we changed the name. We began as the Peter Drucker Leadership Institute, but to us, it is still the Peter Drucker Institute. Our job is to move Peter across the country and around the world.
 Todd: Speaking of moving around the world, we’ve got something really important that we want to be talking about, which is the Drucker Forum. Joan, talk to us a little bit about what this Drucker forum is and the corresponding global Drucker Challenge.
 Joan: It is so exciting. The Frances Hesselbein Leadership Institute is a huge fan and supporter of the Global Drucker Challenge, and the International Drucker Forum is actually one of the leading management congresses in Europe. It brings together extraordinary dynamic leaders of every sector, talking about Peter’s philosophies. This is now going into the sixth year. This international forum takes place in Peter’s birthplace, Vienna, Austria, in November of each year, and the dates are November 5-6. It’s also live-streaming. Those of us who can’t be there in person can experience it online, as Frances and I did this past year. It’s an extraordinary forum of really innovative thinking. To our point, but also thinking about how Peter’s wisdom is timeless.
 What we are excited to share today is this huge opportunity for millennials to grow as a community of followers of Drucker, but also compete for an opportunity to be at this forum in Austria. There is a cash prize as well. What is based on, this Global Peter Drucker Challenge, it shares the same mission that we have that Frances spoke to, which is really to expose new emerging leaders’ work and have them make it relevant to themselves, what they are seeing, what their experiences are, what their goals are. It’s an essay competition, and there are two categories. There is one for students and one for young professionals. This year, the topic is Managing Oneself in the Digital Age: The Human Side of Technology. Basically what you need to do is submit an essay, 1,500-3,000 words, outlining your perspective and your experiences on this topic. If you go to both the institute's website, Why Millennials Matter, or druckerchallenge.org, where you can find all the information, it’s suggested that you download a copy of a chapter that Peter wrote about managing oneself. I know we will talk about that further, but that is a great starting point for all of you who want to enter the competition. Read Drucker’s Managing Oneself, and start to think about how you’d apply that to that topic.
 Todd: Joan, I think somebody is calling in for a second because they were really intrigued by participating. They got right on the phone. Let me stop right for a second and let you know that if you are on the SynerVision webpage, you can chat and ask some questions there. That will be an opportunity, whether we can answer them live on air or answer them after the fact, for you to engage with Frances, Joan, Paul, or myself going forward.
 Joan: Great. I wanted to say that the deadline is July 15. We are very excited and anxious to spread the word about the challenge and get online today to answer any questions and talk a little bit about it. I think that one thing that we are going to find extraordinary is as Frances and I have been traveling and talking to college students, how much our recent book The Five Questions has been relevant and valuable and interesting to today’s students and professionals. We can’t wait to hear the type of thinking that will evolve out of this contest.
 Todd: I want to point out to anybody who is sitting watching from work or their home office or wherever they may be as they take this in archive form. The new edition of Peter Drucker’s Five Most Important Questions has taken and distilled down these five great questions that Frances referred to earlier and broken them into really important pieces. We know some of the lasting legacy leaders like Marshall Goldsmith and Jim Collins and others of this nature, you see the legacy of Peter Drucker living in them. We have also seen in this edition millennials be engaged to deep dive into these important questions. I think that is something really important. Kudos to the two of you, Frances and Joan, for taking that next step to think about how we make these concepts accessible to each generation as they go forward. I know Paul and I have both really enjoyed the book and thinking about those questions. The questions are simple, but they certainly are not easy. I think you have done a wonderful job in making that accessible for us.
 I want to take that next step because Joan, you talked about the question that serves as the Drucker Challenge question, which is: What does it look like to manage oneself in the 21st century? I want to dig first into that concept of managing oneself. Frances, if you would, talk a little bit about what it means to manage oneself.
 Frances: Managing oneself is a millennial concept. It is the millennial’s language that we have just grabbed. My generation, perhaps yours, too, does not think so much as managing oneself as unleashing or liberating oneself. Self-management is a contemporary term. Most managers are comfortable with it. They can trust the work within the concepts. Others prefer language that uses the concept of leadership rather than management. We understand what it really means to manage oneself.
 Todd: I think that is a really interesting thing. Obviously, you bring up that shift and how we think about it. Joan, would you touch on how the concept really has shifted into the 21st century? The challenge even talks about a digital age. What does that look like?
 Joan: What I love about our youngest generation in the workplace today, millennials, is they are hungry for and craving leadership resources. They aspire to be people who make a difference. Their definition of success is through personal fulfillment. They want that greater role. You think about the role of technology in all of this. What we talk to students and young professionals a lot about is how important it is to be conscientious of your personal brand. Your brand lives in three places. It’s in person, how you present yourself and how you connect personally. It’s on paper, still the traditional ways of resumes and portfolios. Third, it’s online. Thinking about how you share your own thought leadership. When we talk to students today, we tell them that everybody has something to contribute and to share.
 To Frances’s point about how millennials, this is the millennial language of managing oneself, Peter himself in the essay Managing Oneself talks about how you can look at your own strengths, how you can ask for feedback and why that is a really good thing to get others’ perspectives, and how you can continue to shine by evolving those skills into greatness versus feeling overwhelmed by your weaknesses. He talks about how to figure out where you belong, what your contribution is. That deeper sense of who am I, what is my role in this world, is completely a complement to what we know students and young professionals are craving today. I think really using social media, technology, like we are doing today, to spread those messages around the world to their peers, to new audiences is what makes this time really exciting.
 Todd: I think that is such an important thing. We have seen a shift in this millennial generation. We have this massive boom. They are technology-savvy, not just technology-savvy, but it’s intuitive to them. We have grown up with this.
 Paul, what do you see? You are a millennial here. We have kind of kept you quiet for a little while. Kudos to you because they say millennials can’t keep quiet. Only teasing. What do you see?
 Paul: As Joan said, millennials are wrestling with the issue of managing yourself in this digital age. Honestly, I think we are living in a very noisy world. Our generation are plugged in 24/7. We are constantly bombarded with messages and images of what our friends are doing on social media. There is one interesting study that I found that seven out of ten millennials are experiencing FOMO, which is Fear of Missing Out. This is an anxiety that you see when you have friends on Facebook or Instagram that seem like they are having the time of their life. You think to yourself, What am I doing here? I want to be there. I want to be doing all this. Instead of leading your lives based on who you are, you are basing your lives on the expectations of the pressures of this world. One question I think that could be helpful to millennials to ask ourselves is what does it look like to be on the other side of you? I think that is a really important question for us to think about. Having the discipline to unplug ourselves from electronics and social media and start going back to the basics of journaling and thinking about who I am, what my tendencies are, what my strengths are. One thing that has helped me particularly is creating this personal board of directors. Being able to identify mentors and coaches around me and through these conversations, I discover who I am. I discover my strengths. With the concrete feedback that they give me, it helps me discover who I really am.
 Todd: That’s a great point.
 Frances: When I speak to groups of millennials, I say, “Yes” every chance I have because it is so fascinating because it is circular. A study says that today 18-28’s are more like the 1930s and 1940s than any cohort since. We call the ‘30s and ‘40s the greatest generation. They often ask, “Could you repeat that please?”
 Todd: Absolutely. I know that you have often talked about millennials, Frances, or at least we share in our magazine about the next great generation. There is some really exciting pieces for them. As we talk about these concepts, we are talking about how do we as millennials link to the legacy of wisdom that has come from those before us? One of the terms that Peter coined that really stands out is this right here: It’s the knowledge worker. What does it mean to be a knowledge worker? If you don’t mind talking about what it means to be a knowledge worker, Frances.
 Frances: It’s very simple. Knowledge workers use brains. Knowledge workers use their brains, and they are very comfortable with all kinds of communication. More than any other group, they understand communication is not saying something, communication is being heard. A knowledge worker must first have the knowledge messages they wish to communicate. They are very good at distilling the language. We don’t need eight paragraphs. A powerful one or two will do it. The divide between the manual workers and the knowledge worker is vast. There is a growing number of knowledge workers because of this vast number of millennials entering the workforce. Recent studies show that millennials today are more like the workforce of the ‘30s and ‘40s than any cohort since. May I add, we call them the greatest generation.
 Joan: I am going to add, too. The thing about millennials embodying the knowledge worker is that they absolutely feel like they can be multiple experts in a number of different subjects because they have access to so much information. The knowledge worker is someone who never stops in that quest of learning and evolving and contributing. Ironically, a lot of millennials, regardless of where they are employed, studies are showing that more often they want to start a business, are inspired to start a business, have a side hustle, or have some type of engagement, whether it be in a nonprofit serving as a volunteer or as a board member. That really embodies this sense of wanting to be a lifelong learner and contributor.
 Todd: That’s a great point. As a millennial yourself, Paul, what are you seeing? It is almost to the point that we don’t even use that knowledge worker framing anymore because everybody is expected to be that, right?
 Paul: It’s part of our generation. I don’t think that a lot of millennials actually think about knowledge work because it is part of who we are, it is part of our lives. I see that the jobs of tomorrow haven’t even existed today. Many of these jobs of tomorrow will be knowledge work for sure.
 Todd: Great point. In Peter’s essay on managing oneself, he talks about the importance of knowing one’s strengths and weaknesses. I know that is a really important topic. I personally am a big fan of the work that stemmed from Dr. Clifton and his strengths approach. Tomorrow, on the program here, Al Weisman from the Gallup Institute is going to be joining us. Paul, what are you seeing? You briefly talked before about strengths and weaknesses. How imperative is it for me as a knowledge worker to know those things?
 Paul: I think it is huge in this generation. As I said, a lot of these jobs of tomorrow haven’t even existed today. That means that we are living in a generation where we have so many options, so many different paths to pursue. Without gaining a greater clarity around who we are, knowing our strengths and our weaknesses will really help us to be able to identify a career which we feel will be at our vocational sweet spot. It is huge to distill within and identify those strengths and weaknesses and have an objective understanding of who you are.
 Todd: How do we learn them, Paul?
 Paul: As you said, Todd, Strengths Finder is great. I am a big fan. For millennials out there who haven’t done a lot of assessments, I think it’s a great starter. One caveat I would say is that a lot of these self-assessments focus on your limited understanding of yourself. A lot of us in our 20’s are in a period of still discovering who we are. We can easily deceive ourselves when we are trying to fill out these surveys and look at these reports because we are still learning about ourselves. One thing I think would really help is to engage your inner circle of influence. People who are part of your work or church or personal life, asking them for specific stories about you and asking them to be objective and concrete about it, questions like “Tell me a time when I excelled,” or “Tell me a time when I was fully alive.” These are really important questions for us to ask. Once we receive that feedback, our job is then to identify if there is any common themes that come out of that. Through that, we will be able to get a better understanding of what those things are that I do really well and what are some of those weaknesses as a leader and how I mitigate those weaknesses and leverage my strengths.
 Todd: That’s a great point. You summarized that so well. That very much fits what we see from Peter Drucker in his chapter on managing oneself, the importance of bringing in those advisors, those people that surround us and see us in action.
 I am going to move into a really interesting question. This is one that I think is a great challenge to all of us. I am going to open the discussion for each of the three of you with the question: How can I balance my individual reality with that of others? That is a big challenge in this 21st century.
 Joan: To pick up where Paul left off, which was fantastic advice, one thing that I have shared with students is to think about how others perceive you. How do others see you? You have that on one side. The other side is think about how you want them to see you, what you believe is within yourself, and match those up. Look to see if there is a gap. That is where the road map for your development comes from. More importantly, to Paul’s point, you need to have some allies, some mentors, some people within your personal board of advisors—I have always advocated for that. I think that’s great advice, Paul—that are willing to have those honest conversations with you.
 Another approach I tell students and even young professionals at work is to find a success buddy. Find someone, a peer, a colleague, a friend, who is around your same stage in life and in your career and talk through these concepts and give each other feedback. Think through questions that you can ask mentors. Remember, mentors are anywhere. They can be professors, administration, former colleagues, former managers. I think that Paul is right. When you are so overwhelmed with the grandiose lifestyles in your face on social media, I can be easy to get overwhelmed by what others are doing and underwhelmed by your own personal accomplishments. It is an important thing to center yourself around your mission and your personal values first.
 Frances: It is so important also to realize that leadership is not a destination. I often have young leaders say to me, “I know I want to be a real leader, but how will I know when I get there?” I can say, “Leadership is not a destination. Leadership is a journey.” We not only choose where and how we are going, but we choose our fellow travelers very carefully. I think you mentioned much the same.
 Todd: I think that’s such a great point here. I love the idea of finding other people that are alongside you in the journey. One thing I think is important for us, and I am going to put my two cents in, and then Paul, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, is when we think about the finding of the individual reality with that of others, one thing we are learning more and more is the importance of empathy. Recognizing the need to find empathy in the other. We are recognizing whether it’s organizations like IDO who are going out to seek to solve world problems through that idea of first finding empathy with the end user, or we are talking about even advertisers today. Marketers and advertisers are recognizing until I recognize and have empathy for the person using the product, I can’t truly design something for them. I would encourage us to think through the need to find and hold onto that empathic perspective. Paul?
 Paul: I resonate with everything you guys have been saying. Empathy is huge in this generation. The fact is, a lot of millennials are so widely connected these days, but on a very surface level. We used to have these one on one relationships with people around us, but now we are having all these wider connections on social media for instance. One thing that I notice is people are always tied to their Smartphones. They are always typing away and connecting. Although there are great benefits that come with that, part of it is we lose that sense to understand and feel the other person. I think that is the foundation of emotional intelligent leaders, the new style of leadership.
 Todd: One thing we are seeing more and more is this conversation about lifelong learning. If you guys each would talk briefly about what role learning has played for you and also for the knowledge worker in the 21st century, what role does learning play?
 Frances: Critical role. If we do not learn every day, and if learning is not part of our journey, and all kinds of learning from all kinds of people, then we become part of the past. Learning across the sectors, not just one area, but as Peter Drucker used to say, I look out the window and see what is visible but not yet seen. That is one of our great challenges. It’s all out there. We look out the window.
 Joan: Our work, and clearly yours as well, both of you, is all about opening doors and all about creating and developing and inspiring new resources for emerging leaders particularly but also tenured leaders to think about some of these big ideas. At the end of the day, self-development, if you are looking for your company or your management to be responsible for you, you have it all wrong. It’s an ownership thing. You own your own self-development. To Frances’s point, you have to continue to be on that journey to expose yourself to diverse thinking and ideas. That is the whole point of this Drucker Challenge. The beauty of Peter’s wisdom is to push you to think about things like management and leadership and how you impact others and what is happening inside you, and then reflect on how that resonates with you. What clicks for you? Share that back with the world.
 Frances: Think first, speak last. Ask, don’t tell. We have all had people in a room say, “I told him and told him and told him, and he still didn’t get it.” No, no, no. Ask, don’t tell.
 Todd: I’ll say I cannot document that this is something that actually occurred, but somebody shared with me recently: Somebody came to Peter and asked him, “How did you get to be so smart? How did you get to be so wise?” His answer was, “I have CEOs of companies coming in to talk to me, and I listen.” I think that is a foundational part of learning: the willingness to listen. Paul?
 Paul: That is a great point. Another thing that I would like to add to that is just having the sense of inquisitiveness, a sense of curiosity is the source of true learning. We can talk about all the strategic reasons of why learning is important, but unless it is coming from your internal motivation, this intrinsic desire to learn more and be curious, that opens up so many doors for opportunities. Whenever you are with someone new or are reading a book, you are asking, “Why? How come? What is this for?” These questions will lead us to deeper inquiry and a deeper relationship with these things. It’s huge.
 Todd: Joan, let me ask you this last question before we start to draw everything to a close. Can anybody actually manage themselves if they don’t have an awareness of who they are?
 Joan: I love that question. The truth is that yes, this is an internal quest. I think I also want to point out, as we said earlier, that leadership can start at any age. We want to encourage as young as possible for them to think about and have that self-awareness.
 Quick story. I was on a community college campus in New York City, and I saw a young girl carrying around one of Marshall Goldsmith’s books. I thought that was interesting. I grabbed her and said, “We have a new book coming out. Marshall is in it, and he has a new book.” She looked so surprised that I asked about this book. I asked her where she got it, and she said, “Well, I know I’m not a real leader myself, but I saw this book in the Sale section, and I thought maybe if I read this, I one day can be.” That hit me right here. That is the purpose of our work. I told her absolutely is she right now a leader. Absolutely. She is in control of that. We gave her our information. That is what we have to be on the lookout for. There is a lot of pressure and anxiety being young in a world that is visible online everywhere. We want to help them connect internally, to be a better manager and a leader of others first.
 Frances: We define leadership as a matter of how to be, not how to do. For young leaders that makes sense.
 Todd: Let’s go ahead and dig back in. Joan, if you would, you guys have the Five Most Important Questions. It has done amazingly well. People are getting excited again about the questions you have shared with us enduring wisdom. I love that tagline. You can find it on druckerchallenge.org or whymillennialsmatter.com. Bring us back here to what you are talking about. Joan, give us that reminder of how we get involved in it and what it looks like for us to think about that question.
 Joan: Druckerchallenge.org is where you go to get the direct information. This is such an exciting opportunity. If I challenge everyone that is listening today to just download that free chapter that Peter wrote on managing oneself, it will hit home. It will help you be more reflective about your own path to leadership. We talked about our strengths, our contribution, who you surround yourself with, the communities that really work to help you flourish and excel in life and feel satisfied. Druckerchallenge.org. The deadline is July 15. You have to submit an essay between 1,500 and 3,000 words. I would encourage you to work with a mentor or friend. Have someone review your essay before you submit it. But don’t hesitate. Don’t second-guess yourself or your thoughts or your ideas. Everybody has something to add in this conversation. Again, the prizes are incredible. They are saving 20 seats for the top winners to attend the challenge itself in Vienna, Austria, and then you are connected to this unbelievable, dynamic, and thoughtful community of other Drucker fans and followers.
 Todd: Let me again reiterate this has been an amazing journey. The four of us are on this call today simply because we believe in it. We believe in the enduring wisdom of Peter Drucker. We believe in the enduring wisdom of not only Peter, but also in those who have taken to heart the things that Peter taught. We sit here. I know Paul, Joan, and myself sit here and learn consistently from Frances. Frances, you have really lived that legacy well. You’re teaching each of us so many amazing things. I am so thankful to your work at the Frances Hesselbein Leadership Institute of what you have done. I am thankful to Joan of Why Millennials Matter and to Paul and his leadership legacy he is building in young leaders. Folks, we are so thrilled to be part of this journey. I want to say thank you to the Young Nonprofit Professional Network. They have been so helpful in helping to publicize this great work. They serve to help promote in this third sector what the good and perfect legacy of Peter Drucker is as we think about moving forward. Reminder: Check out what is happening. There is some amazing things that are occurring with the Drucker Challenge and the International Forum. A great opportunity to get involved with it, as Joan shared with us today. We have just barely touched the tip of the iceberg in this discussion. So many places to go. Paul, Frances, Joan, if you want to leave us here with one last word of wisdom and then we will close.
 Frances: I would leave Peter Drucker’s wisdom with you. Think first, speak last. Ask, don’t tell. When they walk around and you understand leadership is a matter of how to be, not how to do, then you are well along that journey to effective leadership.
 Joan: Todd, Frances and I both want to say thank you so much. You have been such a phenomenal partner. SynerVision, Nonprofit Performance Magazine, you inspire us with how hands-on and passionate you are about your work. That is what I would echo in my closing thoughts. Seeing someone like you and how you are a lifelong learner and you love to connect and ask people about their thoughts and questions, that is why we wanted to spread the word on the Drucker Challenge. I hope that everyone who listens or reads to this, I hope they know that they all have an important message to share and we want to hear it. This is an opportunity to do so.
 Paul: Thanks so much again, everyone for giving me the opportunity to be here. As a millennial myself, this is a very important message that I hope a lot of my fellow millennials would watch and be able to understand the impact of Peter Drucker’s legacy on the next generations of leaders. Thanks again for giving me the opportunity to be here.
 Todd: Folks, we are so thrilled to have you in with us. Whether you are going to Vienna for the Drucker Forum or will be able to participate in the livestream of it, we really believe there is lasting wisdom for each of us to attain. No matter how old or young we are, we are all lifelong learners. So thrilled again to have the Hesselbein Leadership Institute, Why Millennials Matter, and Paul Sohn of PaulSohn.com. You can take a look at the work they are all doing. Each one of us stands here because we believe that we have an opportunity to engage and develop leaders as we go forward. Thanks for joining us. Appreciate having you in here with us.
 Frances, Joan, Paul: Thank you!
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        <![CDATA[<p>On June 8, 2015 the following interview was recorded:</p> <p>Peter Drucker, the father of Modern Management, long ago pioneered the idea of the knowledge worker. With the advent of the knowledge worker came the concept of managing oneself. Drucker stated “more and more people in the workforce…will have to manage themselves. They will have to place themselves where they can make the great contributions; they will have to learn to develop themselves” (Drucker, Management Challenges for the 21st Century, p. 163).</p> <p>Frances Hesselbein, CEO of The Hesselbein Leadership Institute, co-author of Drucker’s Five Most Important Questions, and dear friend of the late-Peter Drucker.</p> <p>Joan Snyder Kuhl, founder of Why Millennials Matter, an international speaker, and co-author of Drucker’s Five Most Important Questions.</p> <p>Paul Sohn, has a heart for equipping, connecting and transforming the next generation of leaders through his work as a Leadership Coach and Purpose Weaver.</p> <p>The Drucker Challenge will take place in Vienna, Austria on November 5th and 6th and asks the question, “what will it take to manage oneself in the digital age?”</p> <p>Tune in as we discuss this important challenge of “Managing Oneself in the Digital Age”, discuss the Drucker Challenge competition, and connect young professionals here in the United States to the international forum!</p> <p><strong>Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>The Drucker Challenge, Managing Oneself in the Digital Age </strong></p> <p><strong>Todd Greer:</strong> Hello, and welcome to a very special episode of <em>The Nonprofit Exchange: Leadership Tools and Strategies</em>. So thrilled to be able to welcome in the amazing, wonderful panelists for our roundtable on The Drucker Challenge. Today, we are joined by Frances Hesselbein, Joan Kuhl, and Paul Sohn. So thrilled to have you here. We are talking about some extremely important things, one being the primary legacy of Peter Drucker. I want to welcome you in and let you know who is with us today on the program.</p> <p>Our first guest with us today is Frances Hesselbein. She is an amazing woman. She is the president and CEO of the Frances Hesselbein Leadership Institute. She is its founding president. Prior to founding the institute, she served as the CEO for the Girl Scouts USA. Between 1965 and 1976, she rose from troop leader to CEO, holding the position of CEO for 14 years. During her time, she grew the organization into a monster of a wonderful organization, bringing girls in from all parts of our society. Whether you are talking rural, urban, or suburban, Frances led the effort to bring girls in, to give them programming, to help them grow their efficacy and understanding of what it takes to be successful. In 1998, she was honored by President Bill Clinton with the Presidential Medal of Freedom for her work with Girl Scouts USA. Today, she is the editor-in-chief of <em>Leader to Leader</em> Journal, she is the author of a zillion different books, including a half dozen seen behind my shoulders. She is a lead author on the recently released <em>Peter Drucker’s Five Most Important Questions.</em> Frances, we are so absolutely thrilled to have you in with us.</p> <p><strong>Frances Hesselbein:</strong> Well, I am so thrilled to be with you.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Frances, right next to you is Joan Kuhl. Joan is the founder of Why Millennials Matter. She is an international speaker. She is a multi-time successful book author. She has dabbled in both business and health care, but she has found her niche in mentoring and developing millennials across the country and truly across the globe. She has been mentoring millennials for a decade now, which is a beautiful message because she is only 17 herself. She has an MBA. She is a certified instructor. She does so much to lead and let organizations understand what it looks like to work with millennials. Her advice has been in <em>The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Leader to Leader. Cosmopolitan Magazine</em> has chosen her to be part of their inaugural Millennial Board of Advisors. She has been featured at amazing places like 92Y; just last week, she was speaking there. She has written <em>The First Globals: Understanding, Managing, and Unleashing Millennial Generation</em> with John Zobbie. She is a keynote and panelist all over the country. Joan, thrilled to have you in with us.</p> <p><strong>Joan Kuhl:</strong> Thank you, Todd. I am so excited to be with all of you.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Last but certainly not least, we have our young man on the panel, Paul Sohn. Paul is a leadership consultant, blogger, and author. He has worked with Fortune 100 companies and is now working with Giant Worldwide as a consultant. He has been ranked as one of the world’s top 50 leadership bloggers to follow. Paul is listed as one of the top 33 under 33 Christian millennials by <em>Christianity Today</em>. He is pursuing a graduate degree at Pepperdine University, the world’s premier organizational development master’s program. Paul, wow, we are thrilled to have you on the program as well.</p> <p><strong>Paul Sohn:</strong> It’s an honor, Todd. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Look, folks, I am just thrilled to be here with three amazing panelists, three amazing guests. We want to dig into some really important topics. I want to start with a really important question. I am going to ask you this, Frances. Frances, who is Peter Drucker?</p> <p><strong>Frances:</strong> Peter Drucker is and was the founder of modern management and has had the greatest impact upon leaders in all three sectors, with hundreds of books and films and videos all bringing the Drucker philosophy alive to leaders at every level across the organization. He is skilled at the language of leadership with maxims such as “Think first, speak last.” Another one I love is, “Ask, don’t tell.” That could be translated into any language and moves easily around the world. When Peter Drucker says that your mission should fit on a T-shirt, he began a not-so-quiet revolution that would continue to celebrate and share in today.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> It’s an amazing thing. We look at the lasting legacy of Peter Drucker. Frances, you obviously had the wonderful experience of not just a partnership and working alongside him, but a friendship. What do we think of as Drucker’s legacy? What do we still see today?</p> <p><strong>Frances:</strong> When Peter Drucker instilled the language of leadership and when he moves his three questions across all three sectors, what is our mission, who is our customer, what does the customer value, and once we have published this, celebrated it, put it on posters, he said, “No, no, there are five questions.” What is our mission? Who is the customer? What does a customer value? Then what about results? What is our plan? He said, “If you don’t end up with a plan, a good time was had by all, and that is all.”</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Absolutely. It’s a beautiful thing. It’s interesting because we have Paul who is a millennial; I am a cusper; Joan, I think you’re right in that cusper level, but just barely on the X side if I’m right; but each of us have been profoundly implicated by the legacy of Peter Drucker. It’s one of those things that you start to think about what has been passed down to us over the years.</p> <p>A quick snippet. I am currently reading <em>Innovation and Entrepreneurship</em> by Peter Drucker. It’s a book that came out in 1984. I was three years old. Yet the things that Peter Drucker talks about in that book are the same key areas that are being talked about all across the world in all three sectors. Frances, you hit the nail on the head.</p> <p><strong>Frances:</strong> Yes, and we continue; even after Peter passed, we changed the name. We began as the Peter Drucker Leadership Institute, but to us, it is still the Peter Drucker Institute. Our job is to move Peter across the country and around the world.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Speaking of moving around the world, we’ve got something really important that we want to be talking about, which is the Drucker Forum. Joan, talk to us a little bit about what this Drucker forum is and the corresponding global Drucker Challenge.</p> <p><strong>Joan:</strong> It is so exciting. The Frances Hesselbein Leadership Institute is a huge fan and supporter of the Global Drucker Challenge, and the International Drucker Forum is actually one of the leading management congresses in Europe. It brings together extraordinary dynamic leaders of every sector, talking about Peter’s philosophies. This is now going into the sixth year. This international forum takes place in Peter’s birthplace, Vienna, Austria, in November of each year, and the dates are November 5-6. It’s also live-streaming. Those of us who can’t be there in person can experience it online, as Frances and I did this past year. It’s an extraordinary forum of really innovative thinking. To our point, but also thinking about how Peter’s wisdom is timeless.</p> <p>What we are excited to share today is this huge opportunity for millennials to grow as a community of followers of Drucker, but also compete for an opportunity to be at this forum in Austria. There is a cash prize as well. What is based on, this Global Peter Drucker Challenge, it shares the same mission that we have that Frances spoke to, which is really to expose new emerging leaders’ work and have them make it relevant to themselves, what they are seeing, what their experiences are, what their goals are. It’s an essay competition, and there are two categories. There is one for students and one for young professionals. This year, the topic is Managing Oneself in the Digital Age: The Human Side of Technology. Basically what you need to do is submit an essay, 1,500-3,000 words, outlining your perspective and your experiences on this topic. If you go to both the institute's website, Why Millennials Matter, or druckerchallenge.org, where you can find all the information, it’s suggested that you download a copy of a chapter that Peter wrote about managing oneself. I know we will talk about that further, but that is a great starting point for all of you who want to enter the competition. Read Drucker’s <em>Managing Oneself,</em> and start to think about how you’d apply that to that topic.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Joan, I think somebody is calling in for a second because they were really intrigued by participating. They got right on the phone. Let me stop right for a second and let you know that if you are on the SynerVision webpage, you can chat and ask some questions there. That will be an opportunity, whether we can answer them live on air or answer them after the fact, for you to engage with Frances, Joan, Paul, or myself going forward.</p> <p><strong>Joan:</strong> Great. I wanted to say that the deadline is July 15. We are very excited and anxious to spread the word about the challenge and get online today to answer any questions and talk a little bit about it. I think that one thing that we are going to find extraordinary is as Frances and I have been traveling and talking to college students, how much our recent book <em>The Five Questions</em> has been relevant and valuable and interesting to today’s students and professionals. We can’t wait to hear the type of thinking that will evolve out of this contest.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> I want to point out to anybody who is sitting watching from work or their home office or wherever they may be as they take this in archive form. The new edition of <em>Peter Drucker’s</em> <em>Five Most Important Questions</em> has taken and distilled down these five great questions that Frances referred to earlier and broken them into really important pieces. We know some of the lasting legacy leaders like Marshall Goldsmith and Jim Collins and others of this nature, you see the legacy of Peter Drucker living in them. We have also seen in this edition millennials be engaged to deep dive into these important questions. I think that is something really important. Kudos to the two of you, Frances and Joan, for taking that next step to think about how we make these concepts accessible to each generation as they go forward. I know Paul and I have both really enjoyed the book and thinking about those questions. The questions are simple, but they certainly are not easy. I think you have done a wonderful job in making that accessible for us.</p> <p>I want to take that next step because Joan, you talked about the question that serves as the Drucker Challenge question, which is: What does it look like to manage oneself in the 21st century? I want to dig first into that concept of managing oneself. Frances, if you would, talk a little bit about what it means to manage oneself.</p> <p><strong>Frances:</strong> Managing oneself is a millennial concept. It is the millennial’s language that we have just grabbed. My generation, perhaps yours, too, does not think so much as managing oneself as unleashing or liberating oneself. Self-management is a contemporary term. Most managers are comfortable with it. They can trust the work within the concepts. Others prefer language that uses the concept of leadership rather than management. We understand what it really means to manage oneself.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> I think that is a really interesting thing. Obviously, you bring up that shift and how we think about it. Joan, would you touch on how the concept really has shifted into the 21st century? The challenge even talks about a digital age. What does that look like?</p> <p><strong>Joan:</strong> What I love about our youngest generation in the workplace today, millennials, is they are hungry for and craving leadership resources. They aspire to be people who make a difference. Their definition of success is through personal fulfillment. They want that greater role. You think about the role of technology in all of this. What we talk to students and young professionals a lot about is how important it is to be conscientious of your personal brand. Your brand lives in three places. It’s in person, how you present yourself and how you connect personally. It’s on paper, still the traditional ways of resumes and portfolios. Third, it’s online. Thinking about how you share your own thought leadership. When we talk to students today, we tell them that everybody has something to contribute and to share.</p> <p>To Frances’s point about how millennials, this is the millennial language of managing oneself, Peter himself in the essay <em>Managing Oneself</em> talks about how you can look at your own strengths, how you can ask for feedback and why that is a really good thing to get others’ perspectives, and how you can continue to shine by evolving those skills into greatness versus feeling overwhelmed by your weaknesses. He talks about how to figure out where you belong, what your contribution is. That deeper sense of who am I, what is my role in this world, is completely a complement to what we know students and young professionals are craving today. I think really using social media, technology, like we are doing today, to spread those messages around the world to their peers, to new audiences is what makes this time really exciting.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> I think that is such an important thing. We have seen a shift in this millennial generation. We have this massive boom. They are technology-savvy, not just technology-savvy, but it’s intuitive to them. We have grown up with this.</p> <p>Paul, what do you see? You are a millennial here. We have kind of kept you quiet for a little while. Kudos to you because they say millennials can’t keep quiet. Only teasing. What do you see?</p> <p><strong>Paul:</strong> As Joan said, millennials are wrestling with the issue of managing yourself in this digital age. Honestly, I think we are living in a very noisy world. Our generation are plugged in 24/7. We are constantly bombarded with messages and images of what our friends are doing on social media. There is one interesting study that I found that seven out of ten millennials are experiencing FOMO, which is Fear of Missing Out. This is an anxiety that you see when you have friends on Facebook or Instagram that seem like they are having the time of their life. You think to yourself, What am I doing here? I want to be there. I want to be doing all this. Instead of leading your lives based on who you are, you are basing your lives on the expectations of the pressures of this world. One question I think that could be helpful to millennials to ask ourselves is what does it look like to be on the other side of you? I think that is a really important question for us to think about. Having the discipline to unplug ourselves from electronics and social media and start going back to the basics of journaling and thinking about who I am, what my tendencies are, what my strengths are. One thing that has helped me particularly is creating this personal board of directors. Being able to identify mentors and coaches around me and through these conversations, I discover who I am. I discover my strengths. With the concrete feedback that they give me, it helps me discover who I really am.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> That’s a great point.</p> <p><strong>Frances:</strong> When I speak to groups of millennials, I say, “Yes” every chance I have because it is so fascinating because it is circular. A study says that today 18-28’s are more like the 1930s and 1940s than any cohort since. We call the ‘30s and ‘40s the greatest generation. They often ask, “Could you repeat that please?”</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Absolutely. I know that you have often talked about millennials, Frances, or at least we share in our magazine about the next great generation. There is some really exciting pieces for them. As we talk about these concepts, we are talking about how do we as millennials link to the legacy of wisdom that has come from those before us? One of the terms that Peter coined that really stands out is this right here: It’s the knowledge worker. What does it mean to be a knowledge worker? If you don’t mind talking about what it means to be a knowledge worker, Frances.</p> <p><strong>Frances:</strong> It’s very simple. Knowledge workers use brains. Knowledge workers use their brains, and they are very comfortable with all kinds of communication. More than any other group, they understand communication is not saying something, communication is being heard. A knowledge worker must first have the knowledge messages they wish to communicate. They are very good at distilling the language. We don’t need eight paragraphs. A powerful one or two will do it. The divide between the manual workers and the knowledge worker is vast. There is a growing number of knowledge workers because of this vast number of millennials entering the workforce. Recent studies show that millennials today are more like the workforce of the ‘30s and ‘40s than any cohort since. May I add, we call them the greatest generation.</p> <p><strong>Joan:</strong> I am going to add, too. The thing about millennials embodying the knowledge worker is that they absolutely feel like they can be multiple experts in a number of different subjects because they have access to so much information. The knowledge worker is someone who never stops in that quest of learning and evolving and contributing. Ironically, a lot of millennials, regardless of where they are employed, studies are showing that more often they want to start a business, are inspired to start a business, have a side hustle, or have some type of engagement, whether it be in a nonprofit serving as a volunteer or as a board member. That really embodies this sense of wanting to be a lifelong learner and contributor.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> That’s a great point. As a millennial yourself, Paul, what are you seeing? It is almost to the point that we don’t even use that knowledge worker framing anymore because everybody is expected to be that, right?</p> <p><strong>Paul:</strong> It’s part of our generation. I don’t think that a lot of millennials actually think about knowledge work because it is part of who we are, it is part of our lives. I see that the jobs of tomorrow haven’t even existed today. Many of these jobs of tomorrow will be knowledge work for sure.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Great point. In Peter’s essay on managing oneself, he talks about the importance of knowing one’s strengths and weaknesses. I know that is a really important topic. I personally am a big fan of the work that stemmed from Dr. Clifton and his strengths approach. Tomorrow, on the program here, Al Weisman from the Gallup Institute is going to be joining us. Paul, what are you seeing? You briefly talked before about strengths and weaknesses. How imperative is it for me as a knowledge worker to know those things?</p> <p><strong>Paul:</strong> I think it is huge in this generation. As I said, a lot of these jobs of tomorrow haven’t even existed today. That means that we are living in a generation where we have so many options, so many different paths to pursue. Without gaining a greater clarity around who we are, knowing our strengths and our weaknesses will really help us to be able to identify a career which we feel will be at our vocational sweet spot. It is huge to distill within and identify those strengths and weaknesses and have an objective understanding of who you are.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> How do we learn them, Paul?</p> <p><strong>Paul:</strong> As you said, Todd, Strengths Finder is great. I am a big fan. For millennials out there who haven’t done a lot of assessments, I think it’s a great starter. One caveat I would say is that a lot of these self-assessments focus on your limited understanding of yourself. A lot of us in our 20’s are in a period of still discovering who we are. We can easily deceive ourselves when we are trying to fill out these surveys and look at these reports because we are still learning about ourselves. One thing I think would really help is to engage your inner circle of influence. People who are part of your work or church or personal life, asking them for specific stories about you and asking them to be objective and concrete about it, questions like “Tell me a time when I excelled,” or “Tell me a time when I was fully alive.” These are really important questions for us to ask. Once we receive that feedback, our job is then to identify if there is any common themes that come out of that. Through that, we will be able to get a better understanding of what those things are that I do really well and what are some of those weaknesses as a leader and how I mitigate those weaknesses and leverage my strengths.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> That’s a great point. You summarized that so well. That very much fits what we see from Peter Drucker in his chapter on managing oneself, the importance of bringing in those advisors, those people that surround us and see us in action.</p> <p>I am going to move into a really interesting question. This is one that I think is a great challenge to all of us. I am going to open the discussion for each of the three of you with the question: How can I balance my individual reality with that of others? That is a big challenge in this 21st century.</p> <p><strong>Joan:</strong> To pick up where Paul left off, which was fantastic advice, one thing that I have shared with students is to think about how others perceive you. How do others see you? You have that on one side. The other side is think about how you want them to see you, what you believe is within yourself, and match those up. Look to see if there is a gap. That is where the road map for your development comes from. More importantly, to Paul’s point, you need to have some allies, some mentors, some people within your personal board of advisors—I have always advocated for that. I think that’s great advice, Paul—that are willing to have those honest conversations with you.</p> <p>Another approach I tell students and even young professionals at work is to find a success buddy. Find someone, a peer, a colleague, a friend, who is around your same stage in life and in your career and talk through these concepts and give each other feedback. Think through questions that you can ask mentors. Remember, mentors are anywhere. They can be professors, administration, former colleagues, former managers. I think that Paul is right. When you are so overwhelmed with the grandiose lifestyles in your face on social media, I can be easy to get overwhelmed by what others are doing and underwhelmed by your own personal accomplishments. It is an important thing to center yourself around your mission and your personal values first.</p> <p><strong>Frances:</strong> It is so important also to realize that leadership is not a destination. I often have young leaders say to me, “I know I want to be a real leader, but how will I know when I get there?” I can say, “Leadership is not a destination. Leadership is a journey.” We not only choose where and how we are going, but we choose our fellow travelers very carefully. I think you mentioned much the same.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> I think that’s such a great point here. I love the idea of finding other people that are alongside you in the journey. One thing I think is important for us, and I am going to put my two cents in, and then Paul, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, is when we think about the finding of the individual reality with that of others, one thing we are learning more and more is the importance of empathy. Recognizing the need to find empathy in the other. We are recognizing whether it’s organizations like IDO who are going out to seek to solve world problems through that idea of first finding empathy with the end user, or we are talking about even advertisers today. Marketers and advertisers are recognizing until I recognize and have empathy for the person using the product, I can’t truly design something for them. I would encourage us to think through the need to find and hold onto that empathic perspective. Paul?</p> <p><strong>Paul:</strong> I resonate with everything you guys have been saying. Empathy is huge in this generation. The fact is, a lot of millennials are so widely connected these days, but on a very surface level. We used to have these one on one relationships with people around us, but now we are having all these wider connections on social media for instance. One thing that I notice is people are always tied to their Smartphones. They are always typing away and connecting. Although there are great benefits that come with that, part of it is we lose that sense to understand and feel the other person. I think that is the foundation of emotional intelligent leaders, the new style of leadership.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> One thing we are seeing more and more is this conversation about lifelong learning. If you guys each would talk briefly about what role learning has played for you and also for the knowledge worker in the 21st century, what role does learning play?</p> <p><strong>Frances:</strong> Critical role. If we do not learn every day, and if learning is not part of our journey, and all kinds of learning from all kinds of people, then we become part of the past. Learning across the sectors, not just one area, but as Peter Drucker used to say, I look out the window and see what is visible but not yet seen. That is one of our great challenges. It’s all out there. We look out the window.</p> <p><strong>Joan:</strong> Our work, and clearly yours as well, both of you, is all about opening doors and all about creating and developing and inspiring new resources for emerging leaders particularly but also tenured leaders to think about some of these big ideas. At the end of the day, self-development, if you are looking for your company or your management to be responsible for you, you have it all wrong. It’s an ownership thing. You own your own self-development. To Frances’s point, you have to continue to be on that journey to expose yourself to diverse thinking and ideas. That is the whole point of this Drucker Challenge. The beauty of Peter’s wisdom is to push you to think about things like management and leadership and how you impact others and what is happening inside you, and then reflect on how that resonates with you. What clicks for you? Share that back with the world.</p> <p><strong>Frances:</strong> Think first, speak last. Ask, don’t tell. We have all had people in a room say, “I told him and told him and told him, and he still didn’t get it.” No, no, no. Ask, don’t tell.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> I’ll say I cannot document that this is something that actually occurred, but somebody shared with me recently: Somebody came to Peter and asked him, “How did you get to be so smart? How did you get to be so wise?” His answer was, “I have CEOs of companies coming in to talk to me, and I listen.” I think that is a foundational part of learning: the willingness to listen. Paul?</p> <p><strong>Paul:</strong> That is a great point. Another thing that I would like to add to that is just having the sense of inquisitiveness, a sense of curiosity is the source of true learning. We can talk about all the strategic reasons of why learning is important, but unless it is coming from your internal motivation, this intrinsic desire to learn more and be curious, that opens up so many doors for opportunities. Whenever you are with someone new or are reading a book, you are asking, “Why? How come? What is this for?” These questions will lead us to deeper inquiry and a deeper relationship with these things. It’s huge.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Joan, let me ask you this last question before we start to draw everything to a close. Can anybody actually manage themselves if they don’t have an awareness of who they are?</p> <p><strong>Joan:</strong> I love that question. The truth is that yes, this is an internal quest. I think I also want to point out, as we said earlier, that leadership can start at any age. We want to encourage as young as possible for them to think about and have that self-awareness.</p> <p>Quick story. I was on a community college campus in New York City, and I saw a young girl carrying around one of Marshall Goldsmith’s books. I thought that was interesting. I grabbed her and said, “We have a new book coming out. Marshall is in it, and he has a new book.” She looked so surprised that I asked about this book. I asked her where she got it, and she said, “Well, I know I’m not a real leader myself, but I saw this book in the Sale section, and I thought maybe if I read this, I one day can be.” That hit me right here. That is the purpose of our work. I told her absolutely is she right now a leader. Absolutely. She is in control of that. We gave her our information. That is what we have to be on the lookout for. There is a lot of pressure and anxiety being young in a world that is visible online everywhere. We want to help them connect internally, to be a better manager and a leader of others first.</p> <p><strong>Frances:</strong> We define leadership as a matter of how to be, not how to do. For young leaders that makes sense.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Let’s go ahead and dig back in. Joan, if you would, you guys have the <em>Five Most Important Questions.</em> It has done amazingly well. People are getting excited again about the questions you have shared with us enduring wisdom. I love that tagline. You can find it on druckerchallenge.org or whymillennialsmatter.com. Bring us back here to what you are talking about. Joan, give us that reminder of how we get involved in it and what it looks like for us to think about that question.</p> <p><strong>Joan:</strong> Druckerchallenge.org is where you go to get the direct information. This is such an exciting opportunity. If I challenge everyone that is listening today to just download that free chapter that Peter wrote on managing oneself, it will hit home. It will help you be more reflective about your own path to leadership. We talked about our strengths, our contribution, who you surround yourself with, the communities that really work to help you flourish and excel in life and feel satisfied. Druckerchallenge.org. The deadline is July 15. You have to submit an essay between 1,500 and 3,000 words. I would encourage you to work with a mentor or friend. Have someone review your essay before you submit it. But don’t hesitate. Don’t second-guess yourself or your thoughts or your ideas. Everybody has something to add in this conversation. Again, the prizes are incredible. They are saving 20 seats for the top winners to attend the challenge itself in Vienna, Austria, and then you are connected to this unbelievable, dynamic, and thoughtful community of other Drucker fans and followers.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Let me again reiterate this has been an amazing journey. The four of us are on this call today simply because we believe in it. We believe in the enduring wisdom of Peter Drucker. We believe in the enduring wisdom of not only Peter, but also in those who have taken to heart the things that Peter taught. We sit here. I know Paul, Joan, and myself sit here and learn consistently from Frances. Frances, you have really lived that legacy well. You’re teaching each of us so many amazing things. I am so thankful to your work at the Frances Hesselbein Leadership Institute of what you have done. I am thankful to Joan of Why Millennials Matter and to Paul and his leadership legacy he is building in young leaders. Folks, we are so thrilled to be part of this journey. I want to say thank you to the Young Nonprofit Professional Network. They have been so helpful in helping to publicize this great work. They serve to help promote in this third sector what the good and perfect legacy of Peter Drucker is as we think about moving forward. Reminder: Check out what is happening. There is some amazing things that are occurring with the Drucker Challenge and the International Forum. A great opportunity to get involved with it, as Joan shared with us today. We have just barely touched the tip of the iceberg in this discussion. So many places to go. Paul, Frances, Joan, if you want to leave us here with one last word of wisdom and then we will close.</p> <p><strong>Frances:</strong> I would leave Peter Drucker’s wisdom with you. Think first, speak last. Ask, don’t tell. When they walk around and you understand leadership is a matter of how to be, not how to do, then you are well along that journey to effective leadership.</p> <p><strong>Joan:</strong> Todd, Frances and I both want to say thank you so much. You have been such a phenomenal partner. SynerVision, <em>Nonprofit Performance Magazine,</em> you inspire us with how hands-on and passionate you are about your work. That is what I would echo in my closing thoughts. Seeing someone like you and how you are a lifelong learner and you love to connect and ask people about their thoughts and questions, that is why we wanted to spread the word on the Drucker Challenge. I hope that everyone who listens or reads to this, I hope they know that they all have an important message to share and we want to hear it. This is an opportunity to do so.</p> <p><strong>Paul:</strong> Thanks so much again, everyone for giving me the opportunity to be here. As a millennial myself, this is a very important message that I hope a lot of my fellow millennials would watch and be able to understand the impact of Peter Drucker’s legacy on the next generations of leaders. Thanks again for giving me the opportunity to be here.</p> <p><strong>Todd:</strong> Folks, we are so thrilled to have you in with us. Whether you are going to Vienna for the Drucker Forum or will be able to participate in the livestream of it, we really believe there is lasting wisdom for each of us to attain. No matter how old or young we are, we are all lifelong learners. So thrilled again to have the Hesselbein Leadership Institute, Why Millennials Matter, and Paul Sohn of PaulSohn.com. You can take a look at the work they are all doing. Each one of us stands here because we believe that we have an opportunity to engage and develop leaders as we go forward. Thanks for joining us. Appreciate having you in here with us.</p> <p><strong>Frances, Joan, Paul:</strong> Thank you!</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[51bd768c92df3a1248ca4d4abe37a797]]></guid>
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      <title> How to Be Sure That Your Nonprofit Brand is Recognized</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/-how-to-be-sure-that-your-nonprofit-brand-isrecognized</link>
      <description>The Nonprofit Chat live was a panel of experts on getting recognized. They represent various type of expert skills and backgrounds. The common trait is that all of them are competent at getting connected and recognized for your brand.

The panelists were Bill Gilmer, WordSprint, Ashley Bernardi, Nardi Media, Shannon Gronich, Media Magic Intensives, and Doug Brown, NewsWire.net.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 30 Jul 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:title>How to Be Sure That Your Nonprofit Brand is Recognized </itunes:title>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8330d732-b329-11eb-9f0f-6301f5541898/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Listen to the Panel of PR Experts</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Nonprofit Chat live was a panel of experts on getting recognized. They represent various type of expert skills and backgrounds. The common trait is that all of them are competent at getting connected and recognized for your brand.

The panelists were Bill Gilmer, WordSprint, Ashley Bernardi, Nardi Media, Shannon Gronich, Media Magic Intensives, and Doug Brown, NewsWire.net.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[The Nonprofit Chat live was a panel of experts on getting recognized. They represent various type of expert skills and backgrounds. The common trait is that all of them are competent at getting connected and recognized for your brand.

The panelists were Bill Gilmer, WordSprint, Ashley Bernardi, Nardi Media, Shannon Gronich, Media Magic Intensives, and Doug Brown, NewsWire.net.<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>4130</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d90716ee11fabfb89def76ef01b5d6e9]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8142381899.mp3?updated=1621009893" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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      <title>Strategy - Driving to Abundance with Ed Bogle, Master Strategist</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/strategy-driving-to-abundance-with-ed-bogle-master-strategist</link>
      <description>Ed Bogle is a Strategic Planning Consultant that serves as a mentor, coach and consultant to entrepreneurs and non-profit executives. In the case of non-profits, Ed specializes in developing and implementing innovative solutions in defining their strategic value to those they serve and building a "brand" that moves beyond scarcity to a level of abundance.Â  His firm ideationEDGE works with their clients to understand their "value" creation and "revenue" production.
 He has worked with and served as a coach and mentor to several non-profits and two of Inc Magazine's Entrepreneur of the Year regional winners. He developed a deep passion for non-profits through a frustration from serving on boards and seeing great visionary work die due to funding shortages and donor fatigue.  Understanding revenues and creating abundance comes from carefully crafted strategies driven from a long-term vision and a constancy of purpose.
 Some questions to ponder:
  What is strategy and why is it important to the charity I lead?
 Does a written strategic plan limit my creativity?Â
 Why and how should me board be involved in the planning?
 How does anyone predict the future with any success?
  Here's the Transcript
 Nonprofit Chat – Ed Bogle – 7/18/17
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome. It’s another session of the Nonprofit Chat live. We’re going to talk about some important stuff tonight. Russell Dennis has been my co-host on this series. Russell, how are you doing tonight?
 Russell Dennis: It’s another fine night here in the mountain west. Beautiful skies and life is good.
 Hugh: You are always good. We are in the old mountains. I am in southwest Virginia, and it’s a lovely evening. We have a mutual friend on here tonight. Besides that, we know he is a very skilled professional. We know he works with business leaders on all levels. He has a special niche of helping entrepreneurs get clarity on what their vision is, on what their market is, and how we get there. We call that strategy. He has done some amazing projects with some specific nonprofits, and there have been some that have really done well. Ed understands the nonprofit space. He understands what the challenges are, and how to come around and address those challenges. Ed, welcome to the Nonprofit Chat tonight.
 Ed: Thanks, Hugh. I am privileged to be here. I have a great passion for the nonprofit world. We need them to do their jobs and live their vision and mission so we can make it a better world. I will do what I can to help.
 Hugh: Somebody once taught me that the work of nonprofits is more important now than ever before in history, and there are fewer resources. We have to do really well at describing the impact we are going to have in people’s lives. I think it was a guy named Ed Bogle who told that to me.
 Ed: I had a good idea about some of that stuff now, didn’t I? Well, you know, so many nonprofits, and even our churches, come from a position of scarcity so often. That clarity of vision and that clarity of the persona, the branding, you talked a couple sessions ago about the branding world, it is what gets people excited to your brand. It has a business flavor to it. When we do that, we find some pretty magnanimous results. We really like to carry into the nonprofit a lot of the business sector stuff and hopefully do it better.
 Hugh: Our friend David Corbin talked about brand slaughter. We illuminated a few things in that session, as you might expect. Everybody has a uniqueness to share about this. As I understand strategy, it is the framework that is going to help us engage our stakeholders. Otherwise, people are hunting for what to do. It’s the clarity of the sequence. It’s the railroad tracks to get you from where you are to where you want to be. Before we get into the strategy world, let’s talk about the Bogle world. It’s not the wine Bogle world; it’s the Ed Bogle world.
 Ed: I drink a lot of that. Nah, I’m kidding.
 Hugh: But your people bring it over and you have a whole closetful.
 Ed: At one time, we had 45 bottles of Bogle wine in our house.
 Hugh: I know what to ask for next time I’m there. Let’s talk about Ed Bogle. Who is Ed Bogle, and what is your background in strategy, and why is that important to you? We’ll talk about you first, and then we’ll talk about it for others.
 Ed: Basically, my undergraduate was in marketing, and my graduate degree was in strategy. But I was trained as an investment banker and commercial lender until that bank brought in a new president and said, “We want you to be the marketing and strategy guy because you have the educational background for it. You just finished our year-long management and development program, so you can do that.” I took that on, and the long and short of that story is that we grew the bank from $250 million to $1.6 billion in less than four years without an acquisition. It was all organic growth because he gave me carte blanche to focus on what was changing in the marketplace and how we related to our customers.
 That early on lesson was all about getting not only outside of the box, but it was innovating. We did some innovating stuff. Some of you may have heard of a little piece of equipment called an ATM. We put the first remote automated teller system in the country out. We put 12 units out all at once and promoted the living daylights out of it. That was 1975. The importance of that lesson is to look for the innovation, to look for the change. We so far exceeded our own expectations of what that would do.
 After I left the banking industry, I went to work for a little firm called Ernst and Young, then one of the big eight. I was part of a team of seven that built their strategy process over about a year long. Then I was leading a team of three to adopt that to the entrepreneurial services world. It was in my days at Ernst and Young that I had my first brushes with the nonprofit world. I saw a lot of people running around with a lot of tasks and people holding out their hats begging for the same donors every year. That is where I learned a term called donor fatigue, which all of us are familiar with. We wear them out. While I was at Ernst and Young, we created a process called focus strategic framework. Our plans end up on one page, and we have used it in the nonprofit sector as well as the church sector. It’s all about change.
 One of the great lessons of strategy that I learned through that course of effort is one of the only constants is change. If you agree that the world is going to change, and you agree it is pretty unpredictable. Back when I used to speak and lecture, I asked, “How many people believe the conditions under which your business exist today will be the same three years from now?” I have never had anybody raise their hands. I would suspect that would be true in the nonprofit world. The way you conduct your business won’t be the same three years from now. You get that clarity of vision, that clarity of purpose, that engagement culture that really goes with this.
 People ride for the brand. That is the critical part of the integration of the framework process. We have a new vision, mission, brand strategy. We have set objectives and all of that, and we know that is going to change, so we like to get people on a horizon of 5-7 years out, then concentrate what we are going to do the next 12-18 months. Then build such a culture internally that people are engaged in change. They have their antennae out. It’s not solely the responsibility of the leadership of any organization; it’s a responsibility of everybody. I don’t know if the brand guys talk to this, but if I can get anybody in my organization riding for the brand—they defend the brand, understand the brand, have clarity on vision, mission, purpose of the organization—their role in fulfilling the brand, and I am not talking about their job description. If I get that, then I will have the ability to change and integrate and build a culture that will be successful.
 Then if I study the marketplace, it starts and stops with a customer or somebody that you are engaging in your organization. It starts with your constituents, your stakeholders. How are we creating value for them, and how do we create that value over time?
 If I pick on the churches for just a second, why is it that all the big churches out there now seem to be these rock ’n’ roll churches? The non-traditional churches are having trouble getting people in their pews, yet the churches like- There is one here that has 26 locations around the country called Life Church. They have four locations in Tulsa. That place is packed. They have six services on Sunday, and all six of them are packed. Where is that coming from? It’s all about understanding your target market and how you serve them.
 I’ll quit there; otherwise, it will start to feel like I am teaching class.
 Hugh: That is part of what it is. Russ, does that pique some interest for you?
 Russell: It all makes perfect sense. These are some of the things that I have been trying to convey to people in creating a framework when I work with nonprofits. It’s getting to that mission and understanding who you are at your core. Knowing people at your very core is important. Those churches with the music, what they are going to find is they have a younger audience. You’re going out there and really talking to markets. It almost seems like dirty language to some in the nonprofit world, but what we have are customers; we just have different segments. Donors are one segment. The people who get your services are the other. If you don’t understand what they need, the people that you put programs together to serve, nobody will access your services. I have had talks with people who say, “I don’t get it. Nobody is coming.” We went through and talked about what some of those needs for those clients were. There is definitely a need, but they decided they are going to operate out of a location that was not accessible to the people they wanted to serve.
 Hugh: The church world is not very different than some of the other worlds. I was on a chamber webinar today with one of the chambers in Florida. Engagement, and especially engagement with millennials, but they said the other organizations in the neighborhood, the rotaries and other service clubs, have had sidebar with the chamber saying that they are having trouble growing their membership. They are having trouble engaging people. It was a whole session about board empowerment today. I suggested with a lack of strategy, people don’t know where to be engaged or what to do. They aren’t really clear what the endgame is. Furthermore, if they weren’t part of the initial planning process, or at last a revision or upgrading, and doing tactics for the long-term objectives, they really aren’t engaged at all. There is a trend for boards not to be effective.
 Let’s go back to the centrality of strategy. As you know, I approach the world with the left and right brain. As a musician, we have a very specific framework. In music, it’s the sheet music itself, the musical score. All the players have their parts. The analogy I make is that it’s their strategy, and everybody on the team has their own piece of the action plan. They know when to play, how loud to play, how fast to play, and we direct the process rather than try to do it all. There is the heavy lifting on the front to put that together. Respond to some of that long dialogue about strategy. I am an Ed Bogle strategy fan. You strategize your life as well as everyone else.
 Ed: My wife also told me that that didn’t work very well in strategizing your life and the raising of your children. With the latter, I would totally agree. It’s impossible to strategize raising children, so give it up if you are trying it. I tried it, and it didn’t work.
 In response to what you were talking about, Hugh, the whole thing is you want everybody in your organization to be bought into the mission and vision of what you are doing. Therefore, they need to be a part of it. That doesn’t mean they need to sit through long planning meetings, but they need to be a part of the development of that strategy. In particular, one of the things we do oftentimes is we have people in the organization that have different roles or employees, in the case of some of them, that they write their description of their role. Not their job description, not their daily task, but what is their role in completing or living to that vision and mission of that organization? It’s stunning what we come up with. If we attach them to this one-page framework, or any framework you use, what happens is they now have ownership.
 Russell mentioned common sense earlier, and the old adage is that it’s not so common. What in particular that gives organizations sustainability, stickability, is the engagement of cultures. I want people internally riding for the brand. That means they are bought into that constant collaboration and innovation. They don’t have silos of jobs. They are wrapped around what is our value, our brand promise is to our constituents. What is our brand position? How do they attach to that? What is their role in doing that? We use a few tools to do that.
 Hugh, I know you have a few things you do with organizations to bring them to that level. Gosh, if they’ve got this framework down and they understand it. If you give them vision, if you have a one-page framework that links from mission to vision, values, purposes, grand strategy all the way out to long-term objectives, competencies, capabilities, long-term objectives, short-term objectives, strategies, and action plan, it’s a big one page.
 At the end of the day, I have had clients blow up wall-size versions of this framework, and we would do training sessions where they would work with their division, their people, for themselves individually as to how I am attached to that framework, that strategy. Then they would all autograph it. There is one client I started working with nearly 30 years ago that still does that stuff. They are running out of places for people to sign. It’s amazing the difference it makes when you bring that level of consciousness up for their connection to the organization, vision and mission, as opposed to a set of tasks, a job task. It’s critically important.
 I don’t care if you’re a charity, church, or for-profit. In today’s world, if the only constant is change, how do you change? You have to have the people going with you. In fact, if you really look deeply at innovation in organizations, it usually comes from the lowest level, who are the people closest to our constituents or customers. Am I making any sense?
 Hugh: You are. Addressing the needs of the world. When you teach, usually when I am with you, you are teaching me. You don’t know it, but I am listening.
 The describing the impact, especially for charities. If we are going to attract people who want to be engaged with us, as you know, in SynerVision, we are encouraging people to use other words than “volunteer.” We want servant leaders, we want community leaders, and in churches, we want members of ministry. There is another term that indicates they are active and are doing something meaningful. Volunteer means it’s laidback and I will do what I have to do until I go home. We are about changing paradigms, and we get stuck in the activity mode rather than the results mode. Part of what I value about your teaching is we define the end result, we look at what we are going toward, so then we get people looking in the same direction.
 I heard you say a couple things here, and then I want to come back and ask you about the significance. One is about the one page. One was I’ve met your children and I think you did a fine job. They are fine human beings.
 Ed: My wife did.
 Hugh: That’s usually the case.
 Ed: Credit where credit is due, please.
 Hugh: We overcame our shortages. What is the significance of being able to have it on one page?
 Ed: There are a couple of points about that. One is it’s easy to digest and look at it. There are a lot of supporting documents sometimes. You can go to an electronic file on Mission, and there will be tons of documents and videos for people who want to understand and learn about those parts of it. We call it an agenda for leadership because it links everything together. The leaders of the organization now have the ability to go out and say, “Hey, here is our framework.” When most of our clients do quarterly reviews, including the nonprofits, they go in and do what we call the rearview mirror in the windshield. Rearview mirror is what has happened to us and why. Then you have the windshield, which is bigger. That is the proportionate amount of time you spend on that. The rearview mirror, what happened to you, you can’t do anything about it, but you can take a little bit of the lessons learned. Some organizations now aren’t even doing any rearview mirror. The Twitter CEO said a few years ago, “We don’t even look in the rearview mirror anymore. It’s all forward.” It’s a little bit of creating processes internally. What you do is you look in the rearview mirror, you look out your windshield, and you bring it back into that framework and see if you need to change strategies. Is it something we need to do now? Do we need to reallocate resources? That one-page framework becomes a document from which you can make decision and assess changes in your organizations and make things happen.
 Hugh: There is some synergy in what you said and what David Corbin said. Everybody brings a little bit of extra perspective to the topics that people think they know a lot about but we really don’t.
 I like that. Russell, do you have a comment or question brewing? He needs a hard question.
 Russell: You can’t stump a man with as much experience as he has. He has been at a few rodeos. A lot of what he is talking about are things I try to incorporate. Having everybody participate in it is important. That seems to be a little bit of a problem spot from what I am seeing. You get a few people. You might even have a power driver or some really strong personality in the group, and they just take over. People don’t have that buy-in if you don’t bring everybody together to formulate. I see that again and again.
 Ed: That doesn’t mean you have to drive people through lots of meetings. Especially in the corporate world, we have a lot of meetings. A client of mine refers to a staff meeting as a staff infection, which is what they affectionately call it. We could get into too many meetings. There are all sorts of tools and techniques to use to increase participation. It’s not top-down. It’s top-down, bottom’s up, continuous flow of thought and conversation about strategy. Strategy is not the annual perfunctory enema that we go through to come up with a budget, which is what most corporations do. It is a process that should be integrated in and be a part of your management systems. It is not an outlier that occurs once a year. Create a plan and a budget. Hugh loves this phrase, but most of those plans end up as credenzaware. They go through this process. Any of you who worked in corporate America know what I’m talking about. They go through this annual ballyhoo of our assumptions and our plan. They hit the first of the financial projections, and expenses are too high, incomes and revenues too low, so they go back and redo it and redo it and redo it. Finally in December, the managers say, “What the heck is the number you want me to get?” Each department comes up with a way to hit their numbers. Now what do they have? We have a set of numbers not driven by a strategy.
 That spills over into the nonprofit world, too. A lot of the nonprofit world makes a lot of assumptions about what they cannot do. I don’t know about you guys personally, but when I work with the nonprofit world, there is a lot of, “Well, we can’t do that.” I worked with the Housing Authority of the city of Tulsa. One of the board members called the director an excuse bag. We’re not funded. We can’t be funded. We don’t have enough funding. We can’t raise that kind of money. They’d get into these circles of spiral downs. I have done it and seen it done elsewhere to where we can bring a level of excitement.
 Some of these nonprofits, it might take two decades to get to a certain point, but think about in the context of a corporation like Apple. It took them years to get to where they are. Did they have a road map to end up at the iPhone and iPad and all the services they provide now? No. They evolved to that.
 Any leader of any organization is the leader of change. It’s not my job to come up with a five-year plan that we are going to stick to, live through, and file through. Go over the top with our energy levels and our dedication to that? No. It’s the doctrine that may drive you. The purposes, the value systems are really important. Values can be a competency incidentally as a side note. What’s important to me is the people are bought into that, including your constituents. Where a lot of organizations make the mistake is in raising money or attracting people to volunteer, they don’t get them excited about it.
 Most of those organizations are about as exciting as- They have been doing the same thing for 24 years. I worked with one organization that is probably in its 30th year of the same annual fundraiser. It raises about the same annual amount of money. They just switch faces once a while because donors pass away or get fatigued. Where is the excitement? They have to get connected with your purpose, your why. A lot of folks forget about that. We have to go out and be very creative about how we craft and raise those funds and the funding.
 Hugh: To your point, there are two videos that are helpful. One is “Begin with Why” the Simon Sinek Ted Talk. “The Way We Think of Charity is Dead Wrong” by Dan Pallotta. He talks about how we have this perception that we can’t do it, that we can’t spend money on salaries or marketing. There is this fictitious percentage of overhead. Is your overhead too high? If you have to spend money on marketing and on bodies so you can serve the constituency and actually get traction to the vision you have articulated, I think busting those old perceptions- That is what I am all about: helping people shift their paradigm.
 I want to talk about the military part of tactics and transformational leadership because there is a synergy that occurred to me we have never talked about. We will expose it out here in public. But when you talk about strategy, I have actually had nonprofit leaders say, “No, no. I don’t want to write anything down. It will limit my creativity,” to which I come back and say, “This is a solution map.” You’ve seen the SynerVision solution map, and you say that it’s strategy, Hugh. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there?
 I want you to respond this. My answer is that the strategy, the system, is the container for creativity. You can now be creative because you know how to be creative. You know where you’re going, and you get the energy. Part of this is looking at your phases as you grow, so you are always keeping fresh. Talk about how that limits creativity and how you keep it fresh, your process of migrating it over time.
 Ed: The limitations on creativity is because we, corporations especially, everybody looks to the management for the answers, right? Creativity comes from the top, and that is totally 100% false. That is not generally where it’s going to come from. The creativity or the future of any organization comes from within the people themselves and an examination on a periodic basis of that external environment is changing, both for opportunity and threat. Did Corbin talk about SWOT analysis?
 Hugh: He did not.
 Ed: He and I both abhor them, not because it’s a bad tool, but the way we implement it. Everyone has the tendency to want to talk about what? Their strengths and their opportunities. They sweep the rest of the stuff, the weaknesses and the threats, under the carpet. If you have two of them, you have a SO-SO strategy because you are only focused on opportunities and strengths. You build an organization in response to people and constituents and how they are changing over time.
 One of my great frustrations when I run planning sessions is that I know I have young people in the room, and I know they are creative as hell and they have great ideas and thoughts. They don’t want to embarrass themselves and bring that out. The leadership doesn’t necessarily bring that out. In fact, in my early career, when I facilitated some of those meetings, it became a dialogue between myself and the CEO of the company. Boy was that meaningful. Not. We were limiting the creativity. We shift around, and we invite that creativity in. In fact, I encourage my CEOs of both nonprofit and for-profit organizations not to lay out scenarios. Let’s come up with the scenarios. Let’s put the antennae up.
 To me, one of the signs of great success in an organization is when I get compulsive innovation and collaboration. People talk around the water cooler, so to speak, although there aren’t many of those anymore, about what’s going on, what the future is, what the organization is. We do periodic methodologies where we check in with people and find out what is changing about our constituents. For example, if you want to get millennials involved with your organization today, they won’t touch you with a ten-foot pole unless you can identify your why, your mission, your purpose, and how they have a role in fulfilling that. It’s a whole different ball game.
 The limiting behaviors come because we have a tendency as leaders to bring people down the path we believe are important. That becomes trickier in the church world because they have doctrine. I also find doctrine personally as an excuse not to address what our members need.
 Hugh: Oh yeah.
 Ed: That’s a fact based upon my experience. What was the second half you wanted me to talk about?
 Hugh: Actually to that point, that is one of the things limiting the church. The Methodist church is losing 1,200 members a week. That is not unique among mainline dominations. We have not made it relevant. We don’t have a strategy. The Methodist church globally says that their mission is to make disciples. They need a strategist to help them develop a mission. What do you do after you develop disciples? We could talk about that all the time. Having someone who understands how strategy drives results. It’s not inside. It’s somebody external.
 The other part is your multi-phase growth plan and migrating it over time.
 Ed: What we do is bring in an organization into a three- or four-phase growth plan. That will cover a 5-7-year horizon. We don’t have much detail, nor are we doing resourcing on phase three or four. We are resourcing that next phase because we are then using our quarterly meetings and our interchanges about what is changing and the opportunity, the rearview mirror, and the windshield to determine how we are going to change it. We continually update the phase growth plan. Even in the financial arena, we do a rolling horizon set of financials. Every quarter, we update that plan literally. It takes less than half a day to do it. But what a great investment. You are always revising that plan. Once you start down that path or mode, and you have people engaged in doing that, it changes the whole dynamics of the organization and its growth. I have seen it. I have done it in nonprofits.
 My favorite thing, the Life Senior Services here in Tulsa where I reside, that is such a dynamic organization. My latest one down in Houston, Texas called Reasoning Minds is a nonprofit all about math education. The bottom line is they are sitting right now on $25 million a year of revenues and income streams because of how they have structured. We got them out of scarcity mode and into a phase growth plan. They know where they want to be five years from now, and they had to bite the bullet and do some things differently, coming out of our strategy, getting rid of some things that were skeletons that hung in a closet forever, like committees. They were wasting time because nothing was attached to a framework; it was just commotion to commotion.
 Don’t we all hate committees? When I was in the corporate world, they had committee meetings. You know how I treat committee meetings? I say, “Okay, you can form a committee as long as you write the epitaph of a committee.” What day are they going to die, and what is going to be the epitaph that says what is going to be accomplished?
 Hugh: What is your definition of a committee? It’s a place where good ideas…
 Ed: …Die. No, they have a tendency to become- We have this committee and that committee, but they are not attached to a strategy. They become functional because they are supposed to do things. I’m not saying you kill committees. I am just saying to change the dynamics of what they are attached to. What is their contribution in the overall strategic plan? In the objectives? How do they contribute to that? Get the committee to identify that, and then you migrate it over time.
 Hugh: I don’t know about this killing thing. I have spoken to a few people about team execution, and they got really excited because they thought they were going to get to shoot people.
 Ed: They though execution was a firing squad, huh?
 Hugh: I shouldn’t joke like that. This is a lot of really good tactical stuff. Let’s look at the grand strategy as a model of you have an objective, and then you define the tactics for that objective. Transformational leadership was birthed out of the military model, where you have to have a high-performing team that you cannot micro-manage when you are in combat. I have reframed that to be an orchestra model, and in a concert, you can’t be telling people what to do. You have to have rehearsed. It’s the integration of what’s written into performance. We have to make it come alive. The grand strategy comes out of this world.
 Speak a little bit about objectives. We see a lot of people doing this, that, and the other. We are talking to social entrepreneurs who might be running a church, charity, or business. Nonprofit executives are entrepreneurs because we are not doing the corporate thing. People ask me if all entrepreneurs suffer from insanity. I say, “Heck no, we enjoy it.”
 Ed: Well said.
 Hugh: This military model of laying down this track, speak a little bit about the genesis of strategy and how that relates. Work in the leadership piece if you will.
 Ed: The whole thing, just to expound on what you are saying there. Strategy has its birth. When I became a student of strategy, there was a gentleman who wrote a book called Ongoing Strategist by Michael David. The book was published in the early ‘80s. He was the mentor who Arthur Young hired to supervise us seven young renegades on how to put this process together to sell it to our clients. He made us read Napoleon’s Maxim on War, Sun Tzu’s The Art of War, Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War, whose basic premise was nobody understood the mission was; therefore, how could you ever win? It was pretty well borne out in the Vietnam War sadly. Some of the Middle East Wars had that flavor to them. It’s hard for them to react in the field to what they are supposed to be doing. If you go deep into the military axioms, one word you never hear said is goals. Whenever you hear me use the word objective, they are interchangeable. Goals have the tendency to be softer, fluffier, not with a sharp edge. Military people are like they are going to take Mt. Sarabachi by next Tuesday. We want that kind of sharpness in our objectives in our organization so that the departments can break it down into pieces.
 The other thing that you learn about military stuff when you dive deeper is mass scale and superiority of defense. Charities don’t have to work in these terms, but if you think about it, our nonprofits out there are competing for dollars, volunteers, and people. There is a thing about building a defensible position. The military world and its leadership, as you were talking about, if you get those troops out there, they are brought into the mission. They know we are going to win this war. The mission is to complete this war. They understand the mission. Their attachment to that becomes how they behave in the marketplaces, they execute your strategies and deploy your resources. It all ties back to that mission and that set of objectives. With real clarity of objectives. We let our business units and our subdivisions of our organization come back and say, “No, no, no, your long-term objectives are wrong. We need to change those.” Oftentimes they are not shooting high enough.
 A lot of the military stuff involves leadership, but it involves it to the point where people are doing what I talked about earlier, which was almost compulsive innovation and collaboration can make things occur. Work across departmental lines. It’s not selfish. That’s a lot of the problem with corporations. There are too many people competing with each other to rise to the top. Inside of those charity organizations, I think it is more critical maybe that we have that clarity of vision and mission and the attachment to purpose. The leadership has got to help embellish that and get people to buy into that, not just tell them what it is, but to buy into it. Why should they buy into it? How does it impact their daily work life when they are working with the organization?
 I don’t know if I have successfully done the consultant bit and avoided answering your question, or if I was going where you thought I was going to go with that.
 Hugh: Russell, why don’t you weigh in on that?
 Russell: I think you answered quite a bit there, why it’s important for nonprofit leaders to buy into these types of things. I think that thinking is a lot softer in these nonprofit circles. With today’s climate, we have to be firmer in our thinking because you are in business, you are providing value, and people need to see that value. We are in a place where there is a lot of noise out there, and people have a lot to choose from. If you don’t give people good, firm calls to action, they will look to somebody else to solve the problem. With some of the problems we are facing, you have to be tenacious to get the resources and make a real difference in people’s lives. The climate has changed in terms of what is out here, what is available. The government is looking to do less and less. They don’t necessarily do everything.
 Ed: Sometimes it appears that way. Sometimes it doesn’t. I don’t know. If you figure out what direction our government is currently heading in, please send me a memo. I need to understand. I’m confused.
 Russell: I was just thinking about that remark that you made about the consultant not answering your question thing. You are going to have to get a lot better in the doubletalk to run .
 Ed: I would never succeed as a politician. I have been told I am excessively blunt in declaring the truth. Guess you can’t do that as a politician.
 The importance of our charities, too, one comment came into my mind. We have a lot of people who are downtrodden and in poverty. We have a lot of bigotry in this country, let’s face it. We have a lot of issues that are social issues. When the people get engaged and involved, that is when they get solved. Government does not have a great track record of solving social issues. Nor did our forefathers ever frame it to do that. We need our charities to step up and succeed.
 The good part about it is there is an awful lot of money and wealth out there that want to get involved into charities. Businesses, for-profit corporations, will not survive another decade without a purpose-driven agenda. If they don’t stand for something for the greater good, their bottom line, their stock-holders, will not exist. The millennials don’t buy into that.
 My youngest son got invited to General Motors up in Michigan. I had happy feet because we had just dropped $140,000 on his education. I thought that he would get this great job. He came back and said, “I can’t work there. I don’t like the way they do what I’m asked to do. I don’t like anything about their values or systems. It’s all about the profits. Their processes are bad. I will fail if I try to do that.” I did the standard dad bit and said, “Just get it on your resume for a little while.”
 Coming back full circle to that, the public/private partnership is only going to get bigger. You see more and more organizations working with nonprofits and dedicating some resources. We have a lot of billionaires out there who are looking for something. I got involved in a deal on a big project, and if you took the five wealthiest families in the country, three of the five were involved in this project. They want to get their money back out in circulation for meaningful things. There is an opportunity to do that, but they just don’t want to hand their money to another charity that will fizzle and have a low-end impact. They want the exciting stuff. If you are a purpose-driven business—I am not talking about building a foundation and handing out money, I am talking about truly getting involved and adopting and working with these charities to really make things happen. That is where the leadership comes in.
 A quick side-note to Hugh in the leadership world: When we so succeeded with the Life Senior Services group and built such a powerful, responsive, well-thought-out organization where people fly in from all over the country to see, their question is, “How the hell did you guys do that?” We have around 36 board members. People will think that is a bit unwieldy. People are looking at it from the aspect of the board supervising and overseeing. That board is there to work with smaller groups and truly get involved in the execution of the strategy. We have attracted some business leaders out of the community, and a few of them provide money and help us raise additional money. I like a self-sustaining revenue model if I can get to it.
 The whole leadership thing is critically important, but you have to do it in a context of something people get excited about.
 Hugh: That brings us to the third question I posted earlier. The third one to ponder is about the board being engaged in the planning process. To your point, Ed, the integration of strategy and performance, you see people that write a strategy and it becomes credenzaware. It never gets integrated into the culture. We see people doing leadership and teams in the absence of a strategy. That is why I have created this nonconsulting position of the transformational leadership strategist. You can’t separate leadership and strategy in my world.
 Ed: I agree.
 Hugh: The third point to ponder was about the board’s engagement. We have spoken about it in this conversation. We are on the down-end of this hour. I want to hit some of the highlights about integrating the board into the process. In my experience of 31 years, the planners and the doers are the same. Otherwise, they will never be engaged. Talk about that a little bit. We are going to talk about how we predict the future as we wrap this up. Talk about how we engage the board and that process.
 Ed: The way we do that is because we use the focus framework process, which we developed in the hallowed halls of Ernst &amp; Young years ago. I have tweaked it a lot since then and adapted it to the nonprofit world. We typically do is the board level talks of discussion, we set up with the boards that works really well, Hugh, and I think you do some of this also. One of the reasons we have 34 board members on Life Senior Services is we have mentoring and masterminds going on. I call it the M&amp;Ms and the As. We build mentors. We use our board to mentor some of these people and help them build plans. We help them sit with the departmental people and build plans and facilitate. It makes a huge difference. The Masterminds is us masterminding the future. Everyone has inputs and portals to all of the things going on externally to our organization that might impact us in the future. We have masterminds going on, so people plug in and out of those. The leadership wants to monitor what is going on there.
 You know me, Hugh. I am an alliance partnership freak. I think one of the ways you get things done. One reason that Life Senior Services is successful and the Housing Authority is successful is because we built alliances with the people we needed to to execute our strategies. The leadership has got to in the planning process meet- There are two pieces to it. There is the overall purpose of the organization. What are our longer-term visions and objectives? There needs to be some clear definition there as to how you see that so we can at least get a scope of what we are trying to accomplish. The other part of that is the lower pieces of the organization flow that information back up, they react to that direction, some of them have been involved in mentoring and masterminding processes and have now created some departmental and divisional plans. Now we have a total integration between the board and the lower levels. That is not possible in every organization, but it works well for most. Did I successfully avoid your question?
 Hugh: There is not one right answer here.
 Ed: It does depend on the personality of the organization. One quick comment because I don’t want to miss it in our last few minutes is that people who volunteer and get involved in boards flat-out need to be excited about what it is you’re doing. Too many of these organizations don’t look to their future in how it’s really exciting.
 Back in the day when we were forming what was Tulsa Senior Services and now Life Senior Services formulated and moving forward, that organization was not exciting. It was mamby-pamby, oh they need a hotline, they need to find services, they need information, they need access to housing, caregivers. It is more of the perfunctory things these people need. We transformed the organization through the leadership. Man, when we start talking about the impact and the why of the organization, people bought into that. Then we transformed that out into the action. We did it pieces at a time. When we got that level of excitement up, then we attracted the funding.
 Hugh: That’s the key. How can you say, “Give us money” when we haven’t really done the preparation on the front end?
 Ed: They don’t know what your brand is. I don’t know if you got into talking about brand, but people don’t buy into a brand today unless they connect to it emotionally.
 Hugh: One of the things that came up with both David Dunworth and David Corbin was that everybody in the organization represents the brand. Part of the engagement of the board is to understand what the brand promise, brand identity, and the brand pieces really are. How do they fairly represent the organization? It’s not done that way in most of the charities that I’ve seen. I don’t know about you, but there is a real connection of who you are and who you represent. Look at dragging off an airplane and you have Ann Coulter out of her seat. Ann Coulter missed a great opportunity. Delta was able to make it about her rather than their poor customer service. We won’t mention the airline, sorry. You can take a pic. Those are brand slaughter. It does damage organizationally.
 All of this works together. It seems like it is an endless process with a lot of work. It is some heavy lifting and intense thinking. It is probably not as hard as most people make it.
 Ed: No, when you do it as an evolution, it’s like raising your children. You won’t open things up to them overnight and have them understand all of their possibilities. It is an evolution, and that is why we go through a phase growth plan and have them continually update that. It keeps the vision fresh.
 Back to the brand one more time. It’s the brand emotion. All brands emote. It took me years to convince software developers that their brands had emotion, but I finally won those battles in most of those organizations. Even in your charities and nonprofits, what is your brand? What is exciting about your brand? Why would I want to get attached? One thing about millennials is they coincidentally by 2020 will be 40% of the work force. By 2025, they will be north of 55 or 60%. We will be dealing with the people that are millennials. They have to understand the purpose, the emotion of your brand to get connected to it. I am not saying categorically, but maybe that is the problem with your churches. They are not connecting their brand emotionally.
 Hugh: It is. Millennials will not substitute anything for integrity and authenticity. The boomers have done some disingenuous things, and millennials don’t want anything to do with it. Actually, my article in my magazine Nonprofit Professional Performance 360 is about the similarities between the boomers and the millennials.
 We are going to wrap up here. Russ, I would like you to do a wrap-up on what you’ve heard. Russ has been taking notes on Ed Bogle sound bites. Then I will ask you, Ed, for your closing thoughts.
 Russell Dennis, what do you have to say on the end of this interview?
 Russell: This has all been good information. It’s very important to have a strategy; everything starts with strategy. You get nowhere if you don’t know what you’re doing. It’s critical to have younger people engaged. Some of these issues I have seen as a veteran, going to veteran events and organizations, there are no veterans under 25 at any of these events. In my mind, that’s a problem. We see this across the spectrum. Your work has to mean something, or it does mean something. It means something to people out there. It’s getting connected to the people that the work means something to that is the challenge. That takes work. There is a lot of work that has to be done internally, and you constantly have to have an improvement system and constantly measure and monitor what you’re doing. You have to be excited about it because if you’re not excited about it, who will write you a check? They will not be excited about your work if you are not excited about it either. It’s really important.
 When it comes to masterminds and mentoring, I like the idea of reverse mentoring: getting some of these millennials in to teach older guys like us about these processes and new things. There is an opportunity inside an organization to do reverse mentoring because we have to bridge that generation gap if you are going to be relevant down the road.
 Hugh: Once again, Russell one-ups me. Ed, take us out. What are some closing thoughts for people? Thank you, Russ.
 Ed: Strategy is the discipline. It’s part of your management process. It starts with your constituents and how you are going to serve them and how you are going to migrate it over time. Clearly understanding your brand and your emotion for them. That is where it all starts and stops. There was a brilliant guy, Theodore Leavitt, who was one of the founders of the real-marketing strategy world, who said a business, or even an organization for that matter, is all about finding and keeping a customer. You better take your constituents and understand them and your brand and what it represents to them.
 Hugh: Great words. Ed, thank you for sharing lots of really useful stuff tonight.
 Ed: Anybody that wants any further information on this, I am happy to share templates and stuff.
 Hugh: Thanks, Ed, for being with us.
 Ed: Thank you.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8347a836-b329-11eb-9f0f-b7ac19ebaf12/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Learn what's missing that might be limiting the income of your charity </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Ed Bogle is a Strategic Planning Consultant that serves as a mentor, coach and consultant to entrepreneurs and non-profit executives. In the case of non-profits, Ed specializes in developing and implementing innovative solutions in defining their strategic value to those they serve and building a "brand" that moves beyond scarcity to a level of abundance.Â  His firm ideationEDGE works with their clients to understand their "value" creation and "revenue" production.
 He has worked with and served as a coach and mentor to several non-profits and two of Inc Magazine's Entrepreneur of the Year regional winners. He developed a deep passion for non-profits through a frustration from serving on boards and seeing great visionary work die due to funding shortages and donor fatigue.  Understanding revenues and creating abundance comes from carefully crafted strategies driven from a long-term vision and a constancy of purpose.
 Some questions to ponder:
  What is strategy and why is it important to the charity I lead?
 Does a written strategic plan limit my creativity?Â
 Why and how should me board be involved in the planning?
 How does anyone predict the future with any success?
  Here's the Transcript
 Nonprofit Chat – Ed Bogle – 7/18/17
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome. It’s another session of the Nonprofit Chat live. We’re going to talk about some important stuff tonight. Russell Dennis has been my co-host on this series. Russell, how are you doing tonight?
 Russell Dennis: It’s another fine night here in the mountain west. Beautiful skies and life is good.
 Hugh: You are always good. We are in the old mountains. I am in southwest Virginia, and it’s a lovely evening. We have a mutual friend on here tonight. Besides that, we know he is a very skilled professional. We know he works with business leaders on all levels. He has a special niche of helping entrepreneurs get clarity on what their vision is, on what their market is, and how we get there. We call that strategy. He has done some amazing projects with some specific nonprofits, and there have been some that have really done well. Ed understands the nonprofit space. He understands what the challenges are, and how to come around and address those challenges. Ed, welcome to the Nonprofit Chat tonight.
 Ed: Thanks, Hugh. I am privileged to be here. I have a great passion for the nonprofit world. We need them to do their jobs and live their vision and mission so we can make it a better world. I will do what I can to help.
 Hugh: Somebody once taught me that the work of nonprofits is more important now than ever before in history, and there are fewer resources. We have to do really well at describing the impact we are going to have in people’s lives. I think it was a guy named Ed Bogle who told that to me.
 Ed: I had a good idea about some of that stuff now, didn’t I? Well, you know, so many nonprofits, and even our churches, come from a position of scarcity so often. That clarity of vision and that clarity of the persona, the branding, you talked a couple sessions ago about the branding world, it is what gets people excited to your brand. It has a business flavor to it. When we do that, we find some pretty magnanimous results. We really like to carry into the nonprofit a lot of the business sector stuff and hopefully do it better.
 Hugh: Our friend David Corbin talked about brand slaughter. We illuminated a few things in that session, as you might expect. Everybody has a uniqueness to share about this. As I understand strategy, it is the framework that is going to help us engage our stakeholders. Otherwise, people are hunting for what to do. It’s the clarity of the sequence. It’s the railroad tracks to get you from where you are to where you want to be. Before we get into the strategy world, let’s talk about the Bogle world. It’s not the wine Bogle world; it’s the Ed Bogle world.
 Ed: I drink a lot of that. Nah, I’m kidding.
 Hugh: But your people bring it over and you have a whole closetful.
 Ed: At one time, we had 45 bottles of Bogle wine in our house.
 Hugh: I know what to ask for next time I’m there. Let’s talk about Ed Bogle. Who is Ed Bogle, and what is your background in strategy, and why is that important to you? We’ll talk about you first, and then we’ll talk about it for others.
 Ed: Basically, my undergraduate was in marketing, and my graduate degree was in strategy. But I was trained as an investment banker and commercial lender until that bank brought in a new president and said, “We want you to be the marketing and strategy guy because you have the educational background for it. You just finished our year-long management and development program, so you can do that.” I took that on, and the long and short of that story is that we grew the bank from $250 million to $1.6 billion in less than four years without an acquisition. It was all organic growth because he gave me carte blanche to focus on what was changing in the marketplace and how we related to our customers.
 That early on lesson was all about getting not only outside of the box, but it was innovating. We did some innovating stuff. Some of you may have heard of a little piece of equipment called an ATM. We put the first remote automated teller system in the country out. We put 12 units out all at once and promoted the living daylights out of it. That was 1975. The importance of that lesson is to look for the innovation, to look for the change. We so far exceeded our own expectations of what that would do.
 After I left the banking industry, I went to work for a little firm called Ernst and Young, then one of the big eight. I was part of a team of seven that built their strategy process over about a year long. Then I was leading a team of three to adopt that to the entrepreneurial services world. It was in my days at Ernst and Young that I had my first brushes with the nonprofit world. I saw a lot of people running around with a lot of tasks and people holding out their hats begging for the same donors every year. That is where I learned a term called donor fatigue, which all of us are familiar with. We wear them out. While I was at Ernst and Young, we created a process called focus strategic framework. Our plans end up on one page, and we have used it in the nonprofit sector as well as the church sector. It’s all about change.
 One of the great lessons of strategy that I learned through that course of effort is one of the only constants is change. If you agree that the world is going to change, and you agree it is pretty unpredictable. Back when I used to speak and lecture, I asked, “How many people believe the conditions under which your business exist today will be the same three years from now?” I have never had anybody raise their hands. I would suspect that would be true in the nonprofit world. The way you conduct your business won’t be the same three years from now. You get that clarity of vision, that clarity of purpose, that engagement culture that really goes with this.
 People ride for the brand. That is the critical part of the integration of the framework process. We have a new vision, mission, brand strategy. We have set objectives and all of that, and we know that is going to change, so we like to get people on a horizon of 5-7 years out, then concentrate what we are going to do the next 12-18 months. Then build such a culture internally that people are engaged in change. They have their antennae out. It’s not solely the responsibility of the leadership of any organization; it’s a responsibility of everybody. I don’t know if the brand guys talk to this, but if I can get anybody in my organization riding for the brand—they defend the brand, understand the brand, have clarity on vision, mission, purpose of the organization—their role in fulfilling the brand, and I am not talking about their job description. If I get that, then I will have the ability to change and integrate and build a culture that will be successful.
 Then if I study the marketplace, it starts and stops with a customer or somebody that you are engaging in your organization. It starts with your constituents, your stakeholders. How are we creating value for them, and how do we create that value over time?
 If I pick on the churches for just a second, why is it that all the big churches out there now seem to be these rock ’n’ roll churches? The non-traditional churches are having trouble getting people in their pews, yet the churches like- There is one here that has 26 locations around the country called Life Church. They have four locations in Tulsa. That place is packed. They have six services on Sunday, and all six of them are packed. Where is that coming from? It’s all about understanding your target market and how you serve them.
 I’ll quit there; otherwise, it will start to feel like I am teaching class.
 Hugh: That is part of what it is. Russ, does that pique some interest for you?
 Russell: It all makes perfect sense. These are some of the things that I have been trying to convey to people in creating a framework when I work with nonprofits. It’s getting to that mission and understanding who you are at your core. Knowing people at your very core is important. Those churches with the music, what they are going to find is they have a younger audience. You’re going out there and really talking to markets. It almost seems like dirty language to some in the nonprofit world, but what we have are customers; we just have different segments. Donors are one segment. The people who get your services are the other. If you don’t understand what they need, the people that you put programs together to serve, nobody will access your services. I have had talks with people who say, “I don’t get it. Nobody is coming.” We went through and talked about what some of those needs for those clients were. There is definitely a need, but they decided they are going to operate out of a location that was not accessible to the people they wanted to serve.
 Hugh: The church world is not very different than some of the other worlds. I was on a chamber webinar today with one of the chambers in Florida. Engagement, and especially engagement with millennials, but they said the other organizations in the neighborhood, the rotaries and other service clubs, have had sidebar with the chamber saying that they are having trouble growing their membership. They are having trouble engaging people. It was a whole session about board empowerment today. I suggested with a lack of strategy, people don’t know where to be engaged or what to do. They aren’t really clear what the endgame is. Furthermore, if they weren’t part of the initial planning process, or at last a revision or upgrading, and doing tactics for the long-term objectives, they really aren’t engaged at all. There is a trend for boards not to be effective.
 Let’s go back to the centrality of strategy. As you know, I approach the world with the left and right brain. As a musician, we have a very specific framework. In music, it’s the sheet music itself, the musical score. All the players have their parts. The analogy I make is that it’s their strategy, and everybody on the team has their own piece of the action plan. They know when to play, how loud to play, how fast to play, and we direct the process rather than try to do it all. There is the heavy lifting on the front to put that together. Respond to some of that long dialogue about strategy. I am an Ed Bogle strategy fan. You strategize your life as well as everyone else.
 Ed: My wife also told me that that didn’t work very well in strategizing your life and the raising of your children. With the latter, I would totally agree. It’s impossible to strategize raising children, so give it up if you are trying it. I tried it, and it didn’t work.
 In response to what you were talking about, Hugh, the whole thing is you want everybody in your organization to be bought into the mission and vision of what you are doing. Therefore, they need to be a part of it. That doesn’t mean they need to sit through long planning meetings, but they need to be a part of the development of that strategy. In particular, one of the things we do oftentimes is we have people in the organization that have different roles or employees, in the case of some of them, that they write their description of their role. Not their job description, not their daily task, but what is their role in completing or living to that vision and mission of that organization? It’s stunning what we come up with. If we attach them to this one-page framework, or any framework you use, what happens is they now have ownership.
 Russell mentioned common sense earlier, and the old adage is that it’s not so common. What in particular that gives organizations sustainability, stickability, is the engagement of cultures. I want people internally riding for the brand. That means they are bought into that constant collaboration and innovation. They don’t have silos of jobs. They are wrapped around what is our value, our brand promise is to our constituents. What is our brand position? How do they attach to that? What is their role in doing that? We use a few tools to do that.
 Hugh, I know you have a few things you do with organizations to bring them to that level. Gosh, if they’ve got this framework down and they understand it. If you give them vision, if you have a one-page framework that links from mission to vision, values, purposes, grand strategy all the way out to long-term objectives, competencies, capabilities, long-term objectives, short-term objectives, strategies, and action plan, it’s a big one page.
 At the end of the day, I have had clients blow up wall-size versions of this framework, and we would do training sessions where they would work with their division, their people, for themselves individually as to how I am attached to that framework, that strategy. Then they would all autograph it. There is one client I started working with nearly 30 years ago that still does that stuff. They are running out of places for people to sign. It’s amazing the difference it makes when you bring that level of consciousness up for their connection to the organization, vision and mission, as opposed to a set of tasks, a job task. It’s critically important.
 I don’t care if you’re a charity, church, or for-profit. In today’s world, if the only constant is change, how do you change? You have to have the people going with you. In fact, if you really look deeply at innovation in organizations, it usually comes from the lowest level, who are the people closest to our constituents or customers. Am I making any sense?
 Hugh: You are. Addressing the needs of the world. When you teach, usually when I am with you, you are teaching me. You don’t know it, but I am listening.
 The describing the impact, especially for charities. If we are going to attract people who want to be engaged with us, as you know, in SynerVision, we are encouraging people to use other words than “volunteer.” We want servant leaders, we want community leaders, and in churches, we want members of ministry. There is another term that indicates they are active and are doing something meaningful. Volunteer means it’s laidback and I will do what I have to do until I go home. We are about changing paradigms, and we get stuck in the activity mode rather than the results mode. Part of what I value about your teaching is we define the end result, we look at what we are going toward, so then we get people looking in the same direction.
 I heard you say a couple things here, and then I want to come back and ask you about the significance. One is about the one page. One was I’ve met your children and I think you did a fine job. They are fine human beings.
 Ed: My wife did.
 Hugh: That’s usually the case.
 Ed: Credit where credit is due, please.
 Hugh: We overcame our shortages. What is the significance of being able to have it on one page?
 Ed: There are a couple of points about that. One is it’s easy to digest and look at it. There are a lot of supporting documents sometimes. You can go to an electronic file on Mission, and there will be tons of documents and videos for people who want to understand and learn about those parts of it. We call it an agenda for leadership because it links everything together. The leaders of the organization now have the ability to go out and say, “Hey, here is our framework.” When most of our clients do quarterly reviews, including the nonprofits, they go in and do what we call the rearview mirror in the windshield. Rearview mirror is what has happened to us and why. Then you have the windshield, which is bigger. That is the proportionate amount of time you spend on that. The rearview mirror, what happened to you, you can’t do anything about it, but you can take a little bit of the lessons learned. Some organizations now aren’t even doing any rearview mirror. The Twitter CEO said a few years ago, “We don’t even look in the rearview mirror anymore. It’s all forward.” It’s a little bit of creating processes internally. What you do is you look in the rearview mirror, you look out your windshield, and you bring it back into that framework and see if you need to change strategies. Is it something we need to do now? Do we need to reallocate resources? That one-page framework becomes a document from which you can make decision and assess changes in your organizations and make things happen.
 Hugh: There is some synergy in what you said and what David Corbin said. Everybody brings a little bit of extra perspective to the topics that people think they know a lot about but we really don’t.
 I like that. Russell, do you have a comment or question brewing? He needs a hard question.
 Russell: You can’t stump a man with as much experience as he has. He has been at a few rodeos. A lot of what he is talking about are things I try to incorporate. Having everybody participate in it is important. That seems to be a little bit of a problem spot from what I am seeing. You get a few people. You might even have a power driver or some really strong personality in the group, and they just take over. People don’t have that buy-in if you don’t bring everybody together to formulate. I see that again and again.
 Ed: That doesn’t mean you have to drive people through lots of meetings. Especially in the corporate world, we have a lot of meetings. A client of mine refers to a staff meeting as a staff infection, which is what they affectionately call it. We could get into too many meetings. There are all sorts of tools and techniques to use to increase participation. It’s not top-down. It’s top-down, bottom’s up, continuous flow of thought and conversation about strategy. Strategy is not the annual perfunctory enema that we go through to come up with a budget, which is what most corporations do. It is a process that should be integrated in and be a part of your management systems. It is not an outlier that occurs once a year. Create a plan and a budget. Hugh loves this phrase, but most of those plans end up as credenzaware. They go through this process. Any of you who worked in corporate America know what I’m talking about. They go through this annual ballyhoo of our assumptions and our plan. They hit the first of the financial projections, and expenses are too high, incomes and revenues too low, so they go back and redo it and redo it and redo it. Finally in December, the managers say, “What the heck is the number you want me to get?” Each department comes up with a way to hit their numbers. Now what do they have? We have a set of numbers not driven by a strategy.
 That spills over into the nonprofit world, too. A lot of the nonprofit world makes a lot of assumptions about what they cannot do. I don’t know about you guys personally, but when I work with the nonprofit world, there is a lot of, “Well, we can’t do that.” I worked with the Housing Authority of the city of Tulsa. One of the board members called the director an excuse bag. We’re not funded. We can’t be funded. We don’t have enough funding. We can’t raise that kind of money. They’d get into these circles of spiral downs. I have done it and seen it done elsewhere to where we can bring a level of excitement.
 Some of these nonprofits, it might take two decades to get to a certain point, but think about in the context of a corporation like Apple. It took them years to get to where they are. Did they have a road map to end up at the iPhone and iPad and all the services they provide now? No. They evolved to that.
 Any leader of any organization is the leader of change. It’s not my job to come up with a five-year plan that we are going to stick to, live through, and file through. Go over the top with our energy levels and our dedication to that? No. It’s the doctrine that may drive you. The purposes, the value systems are really important. Values can be a competency incidentally as a side note. What’s important to me is the people are bought into that, including your constituents. Where a lot of organizations make the mistake is in raising money or attracting people to volunteer, they don’t get them excited about it.
 Most of those organizations are about as exciting as- They have been doing the same thing for 24 years. I worked with one organization that is probably in its 30th year of the same annual fundraiser. It raises about the same annual amount of money. They just switch faces once a while because donors pass away or get fatigued. Where is the excitement? They have to get connected with your purpose, your why. A lot of folks forget about that. We have to go out and be very creative about how we craft and raise those funds and the funding.
 Hugh: To your point, there are two videos that are helpful. One is “Begin with Why” the Simon Sinek Ted Talk. “The Way We Think of Charity is Dead Wrong” by Dan Pallotta. He talks about how we have this perception that we can’t do it, that we can’t spend money on salaries or marketing. There is this fictitious percentage of overhead. Is your overhead too high? If you have to spend money on marketing and on bodies so you can serve the constituency and actually get traction to the vision you have articulated, I think busting those old perceptions- That is what I am all about: helping people shift their paradigm.
 I want to talk about the military part of tactics and transformational leadership because there is a synergy that occurred to me we have never talked about. We will expose it out here in public. But when you talk about strategy, I have actually had nonprofit leaders say, “No, no. I don’t want to write anything down. It will limit my creativity,” to which I come back and say, “This is a solution map.” You’ve seen the SynerVision solution map, and you say that it’s strategy, Hugh. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there?
 I want you to respond this. My answer is that the strategy, the system, is the container for creativity. You can now be creative because you know how to be creative. You know where you’re going, and you get the energy. Part of this is looking at your phases as you grow, so you are always keeping fresh. Talk about how that limits creativity and how you keep it fresh, your process of migrating it over time.
 Ed: The limitations on creativity is because we, corporations especially, everybody looks to the management for the answers, right? Creativity comes from the top, and that is totally 100% false. That is not generally where it’s going to come from. The creativity or the future of any organization comes from within the people themselves and an examination on a periodic basis of that external environment is changing, both for opportunity and threat. Did Corbin talk about SWOT analysis?
 Hugh: He did not.
 Ed: He and I both abhor them, not because it’s a bad tool, but the way we implement it. Everyone has the tendency to want to talk about what? Their strengths and their opportunities. They sweep the rest of the stuff, the weaknesses and the threats, under the carpet. If you have two of them, you have a SO-SO strategy because you are only focused on opportunities and strengths. You build an organization in response to people and constituents and how they are changing over time.
 One of my great frustrations when I run planning sessions is that I know I have young people in the room, and I know they are creative as hell and they have great ideas and thoughts. They don’t want to embarrass themselves and bring that out. The leadership doesn’t necessarily bring that out. In fact, in my early career, when I facilitated some of those meetings, it became a dialogue between myself and the CEO of the company. Boy was that meaningful. Not. We were limiting the creativity. We shift around, and we invite that creativity in. In fact, I encourage my CEOs of both nonprofit and for-profit organizations not to lay out scenarios. Let’s come up with the scenarios. Let’s put the antennae up.
 To me, one of the signs of great success in an organization is when I get compulsive innovation and collaboration. People talk around the water cooler, so to speak, although there aren’t many of those anymore, about what’s going on, what the future is, what the organization is. We do periodic methodologies where we check in with people and find out what is changing about our constituents. For example, if you want to get millennials involved with your organization today, they won’t touch you with a ten-foot pole unless you can identify your why, your mission, your purpose, and how they have a role in fulfilling that. It’s a whole different ball game.
 The limiting behaviors come because we have a tendency as leaders to bring people down the path we believe are important. That becomes trickier in the church world because they have doctrine. I also find doctrine personally as an excuse not to address what our members need.
 Hugh: Oh yeah.
 Ed: That’s a fact based upon my experience. What was the second half you wanted me to talk about?
 Hugh: Actually to that point, that is one of the things limiting the church. The Methodist church is losing 1,200 members a week. That is not unique among mainline dominations. We have not made it relevant. We don’t have a strategy. The Methodist church globally says that their mission is to make disciples. They need a strategist to help them develop a mission. What do you do after you develop disciples? We could talk about that all the time. Having someone who understands how strategy drives results. It’s not inside. It’s somebody external.
 The other part is your multi-phase growth plan and migrating it over time.
 Ed: What we do is bring in an organization into a three- or four-phase growth plan. That will cover a 5-7-year horizon. We don’t have much detail, nor are we doing resourcing on phase three or four. We are resourcing that next phase because we are then using our quarterly meetings and our interchanges about what is changing and the opportunity, the rearview mirror, and the windshield to determine how we are going to change it. We continually update the phase growth plan. Even in the financial arena, we do a rolling horizon set of financials. Every quarter, we update that plan literally. It takes less than half a day to do it. But what a great investment. You are always revising that plan. Once you start down that path or mode, and you have people engaged in doing that, it changes the whole dynamics of the organization and its growth. I have seen it. I have done it in nonprofits.
 My favorite thing, the Life Senior Services here in Tulsa where I reside, that is such a dynamic organization. My latest one down in Houston, Texas called Reasoning Minds is a nonprofit all about math education. The bottom line is they are sitting right now on $25 million a year of revenues and income streams because of how they have structured. We got them out of scarcity mode and into a phase growth plan. They know where they want to be five years from now, and they had to bite the bullet and do some things differently, coming out of our strategy, getting rid of some things that were skeletons that hung in a closet forever, like committees. They were wasting time because nothing was attached to a framework; it was just commotion to commotion.
 Don’t we all hate committees? When I was in the corporate world, they had committee meetings. You know how I treat committee meetings? I say, “Okay, you can form a committee as long as you write the epitaph of a committee.” What day are they going to die, and what is going to be the epitaph that says what is going to be accomplished?
 Hugh: What is your definition of a committee? It’s a place where good ideas…
 Ed: …Die. No, they have a tendency to become- We have this committee and that committee, but they are not attached to a strategy. They become functional because they are supposed to do things. I’m not saying you kill committees. I am just saying to change the dynamics of what they are attached to. What is their contribution in the overall strategic plan? In the objectives? How do they contribute to that? Get the committee to identify that, and then you migrate it over time.
 Hugh: I don’t know about this killing thing. I have spoken to a few people about team execution, and they got really excited because they thought they were going to get to shoot people.
 Ed: They though execution was a firing squad, huh?
 Hugh: I shouldn’t joke like that. This is a lot of really good tactical stuff. Let’s look at the grand strategy as a model of you have an objective, and then you define the tactics for that objective. Transformational leadership was birthed out of the military model, where you have to have a high-performing team that you cannot micro-manage when you are in combat. I have reframed that to be an orchestra model, and in a concert, you can’t be telling people what to do. You have to have rehearsed. It’s the integration of what’s written into performance. We have to make it come alive. The grand strategy comes out of this world.
 Speak a little bit about objectives. We see a lot of people doing this, that, and the other. We are talking to social entrepreneurs who might be running a church, charity, or business. Nonprofit executives are entrepreneurs because we are not doing the corporate thing. People ask me if all entrepreneurs suffer from insanity. I say, “Heck no, we enjoy it.”
 Ed: Well said.
 Hugh: This military model of laying down this track, speak a little bit about the genesis of strategy and how that relates. Work in the leadership piece if you will.
 Ed: The whole thing, just to expound on what you are saying there. Strategy has its birth. When I became a student of strategy, there was a gentleman who wrote a book called Ongoing Strategist by Michael David. The book was published in the early ‘80s. He was the mentor who Arthur Young hired to supervise us seven young renegades on how to put this process together to sell it to our clients. He made us read Napoleon’s Maxim on War, Sun Tzu’s The Art of War, Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War, whose basic premise was nobody understood the mission was; therefore, how could you ever win? It was pretty well borne out in the Vietnam War sadly. Some of the Middle East Wars had that flavor to them. It’s hard for them to react in the field to what they are supposed to be doing. If you go deep into the military axioms, one word you never hear said is goals. Whenever you hear me use the word objective, they are interchangeable. Goals have the tendency to be softer, fluffier, not with a sharp edge. Military people are like they are going to take Mt. Sarabachi by next Tuesday. We want that kind of sharpness in our objectives in our organization so that the departments can break it down into pieces.
 The other thing that you learn about military stuff when you dive deeper is mass scale and superiority of defense. Charities don’t have to work in these terms, but if you think about it, our nonprofits out there are competing for dollars, volunteers, and people. There is a thing about building a defensible position. The military world and its leadership, as you were talking about, if you get those troops out there, they are brought into the mission. They know we are going to win this war. The mission is to complete this war. They understand the mission. Their attachment to that becomes how they behave in the marketplaces, they execute your strategies and deploy your resources. It all ties back to that mission and that set of objectives. With real clarity of objectives. We let our business units and our subdivisions of our organization come back and say, “No, no, no, your long-term objectives are wrong. We need to change those.” Oftentimes they are not shooting high enough.
 A lot of the military stuff involves leadership, but it involves it to the point where people are doing what I talked about earlier, which was almost compulsive innovation and collaboration can make things occur. Work across departmental lines. It’s not selfish. That’s a lot of the problem with corporations. There are too many people competing with each other to rise to the top. Inside of those charity organizations, I think it is more critical maybe that we have that clarity of vision and mission and the attachment to purpose. The leadership has got to help embellish that and get people to buy into that, not just tell them what it is, but to buy into it. Why should they buy into it? How does it impact their daily work life when they are working with the organization?
 I don’t know if I have successfully done the consultant bit and avoided answering your question, or if I was going where you thought I was going to go with that.
 Hugh: Russell, why don’t you weigh in on that?
 Russell: I think you answered quite a bit there, why it’s important for nonprofit leaders to buy into these types of things. I think that thinking is a lot softer in these nonprofit circles. With today’s climate, we have to be firmer in our thinking because you are in business, you are providing value, and people need to see that value. We are in a place where there is a lot of noise out there, and people have a lot to choose from. If you don’t give people good, firm calls to action, they will look to somebody else to solve the problem. With some of the problems we are facing, you have to be tenacious to get the resources and make a real difference in people’s lives. The climate has changed in terms of what is out here, what is available. The government is looking to do less and less. They don’t necessarily do everything.
 Ed: Sometimes it appears that way. Sometimes it doesn’t. I don’t know. If you figure out what direction our government is currently heading in, please send me a memo. I need to understand. I’m confused.
 Russell: I was just thinking about that remark that you made about the consultant not answering your question thing. You are going to have to get a lot better in the doubletalk to run .
 Ed: I would never succeed as a politician. I have been told I am excessively blunt in declaring the truth. Guess you can’t do that as a politician.
 The importance of our charities, too, one comment came into my mind. We have a lot of people who are downtrodden and in poverty. We have a lot of bigotry in this country, let’s face it. We have a lot of issues that are social issues. When the people get engaged and involved, that is when they get solved. Government does not have a great track record of solving social issues. Nor did our forefathers ever frame it to do that. We need our charities to step up and succeed.
 The good part about it is there is an awful lot of money and wealth out there that want to get involved into charities. Businesses, for-profit corporations, will not survive another decade without a purpose-driven agenda. If they don’t stand for something for the greater good, their bottom line, their stock-holders, will not exist. The millennials don’t buy into that.
 My youngest son got invited to General Motors up in Michigan. I had happy feet because we had just dropped $140,000 on his education. I thought that he would get this great job. He came back and said, “I can’t work there. I don’t like the way they do what I’m asked to do. I don’t like anything about their values or systems. It’s all about the profits. Their processes are bad. I will fail if I try to do that.” I did the standard dad bit and said, “Just get it on your resume for a little while.”
 Coming back full circle to that, the public/private partnership is only going to get bigger. You see more and more organizations working with nonprofits and dedicating some resources. We have a lot of billionaires out there who are looking for something. I got involved in a deal on a big project, and if you took the five wealthiest families in the country, three of the five were involved in this project. They want to get their money back out in circulation for meaningful things. There is an opportunity to do that, but they just don’t want to hand their money to another charity that will fizzle and have a low-end impact. They want the exciting stuff. If you are a purpose-driven business—I am not talking about building a foundation and handing out money, I am talking about truly getting involved and adopting and working with these charities to really make things happen. That is where the leadership comes in.
 A quick side-note to Hugh in the leadership world: When we so succeeded with the Life Senior Services group and built such a powerful, responsive, well-thought-out organization where people fly in from all over the country to see, their question is, “How the hell did you guys do that?” We have around 36 board members. People will think that is a bit unwieldy. People are looking at it from the aspect of the board supervising and overseeing. That board is there to work with smaller groups and truly get involved in the execution of the strategy. We have attracted some business leaders out of the community, and a few of them provide money and help us raise additional money. I like a self-sustaining revenue model if I can get to it.
 The whole leadership thing is critically important, but you have to do it in a context of something people get excited about.
 Hugh: That brings us to the third question I posted earlier. The third one to ponder is about the board being engaged in the planning process. To your point, Ed, the integration of strategy and performance, you see people that write a strategy and it becomes credenzaware. It never gets integrated into the culture. We see people doing leadership and teams in the absence of a strategy. That is why I have created this nonconsulting position of the transformational leadership strategist. You can’t separate leadership and strategy in my world.
 Ed: I agree.
 Hugh: The third point to ponder was about the board’s engagement. We have spoken about it in this conversation. We are on the down-end of this hour. I want to hit some of the highlights about integrating the board into the process. In my experience of 31 years, the planners and the doers are the same. Otherwise, they will never be engaged. Talk about that a little bit. We are going to talk about how we predict the future as we wrap this up. Talk about how we engage the board and that process.
 Ed: The way we do that is because we use the focus framework process, which we developed in the hallowed halls of Ernst &amp; Young years ago. I have tweaked it a lot since then and adapted it to the nonprofit world. We typically do is the board level talks of discussion, we set up with the boards that works really well, Hugh, and I think you do some of this also. One of the reasons we have 34 board members on Life Senior Services is we have mentoring and masterminds going on. I call it the M&amp;Ms and the As. We build mentors. We use our board to mentor some of these people and help them build plans. We help them sit with the departmental people and build plans and facilitate. It makes a huge difference. The Masterminds is us masterminding the future. Everyone has inputs and portals to all of the things going on externally to our organization that might impact us in the future. We have masterminds going on, so people plug in and out of those. The leadership wants to monitor what is going on there.
 You know me, Hugh. I am an alliance partnership freak. I think one of the ways you get things done. One reason that Life Senior Services is successful and the Housing Authority is successful is because we built alliances with the people we needed to to execute our strategies. The leadership has got to in the planning process meet- There are two pieces to it. There is the overall purpose of the organization. What are our longer-term visions and objectives? There needs to be some clear definition there as to how you see that so we can at least get a scope of what we are trying to accomplish. The other part of that is the lower pieces of the organization flow that information back up, they react to that direction, some of them have been involved in mentoring and masterminding processes and have now created some departmental and divisional plans. Now we have a total integration between the board and the lower levels. That is not possible in every organization, but it works well for most. Did I successfully avoid your question?
 Hugh: There is not one right answer here.
 Ed: It does depend on the personality of the organization. One quick comment because I don’t want to miss it in our last few minutes is that people who volunteer and get involved in boards flat-out need to be excited about what it is you’re doing. Too many of these organizations don’t look to their future in how it’s really exciting.
 Back in the day when we were forming what was Tulsa Senior Services and now Life Senior Services formulated and moving forward, that organization was not exciting. It was mamby-pamby, oh they need a hotline, they need to find services, they need information, they need access to housing, caregivers. It is more of the perfunctory things these people need. We transformed the organization through the leadership. Man, when we start talking about the impact and the why of the organization, people bought into that. Then we transformed that out into the action. We did it pieces at a time. When we got that level of excitement up, then we attracted the funding.
 Hugh: That’s the key. How can you say, “Give us money” when we haven’t really done the preparation on the front end?
 Ed: They don’t know what your brand is. I don’t know if you got into talking about brand, but people don’t buy into a brand today unless they connect to it emotionally.
 Hugh: One of the things that came up with both David Dunworth and David Corbin was that everybody in the organization represents the brand. Part of the engagement of the board is to understand what the brand promise, brand identity, and the brand pieces really are. How do they fairly represent the organization? It’s not done that way in most of the charities that I’ve seen. I don’t know about you, but there is a real connection of who you are and who you represent. Look at dragging off an airplane and you have Ann Coulter out of her seat. Ann Coulter missed a great opportunity. Delta was able to make it about her rather than their poor customer service. We won’t mention the airline, sorry. You can take a pic. Those are brand slaughter. It does damage organizationally.
 All of this works together. It seems like it is an endless process with a lot of work. It is some heavy lifting and intense thinking. It is probably not as hard as most people make it.
 Ed: No, when you do it as an evolution, it’s like raising your children. You won’t open things up to them overnight and have them understand all of their possibilities. It is an evolution, and that is why we go through a phase growth plan and have them continually update that. It keeps the vision fresh.
 Back to the brand one more time. It’s the brand emotion. All brands emote. It took me years to convince software developers that their brands had emotion, but I finally won those battles in most of those organizations. Even in your charities and nonprofits, what is your brand? What is exciting about your brand? Why would I want to get attached? One thing about millennials is they coincidentally by 2020 will be 40% of the work force. By 2025, they will be north of 55 or 60%. We will be dealing with the people that are millennials. They have to understand the purpose, the emotion of your brand to get connected to it. I am not saying categorically, but maybe that is the problem with your churches. They are not connecting their brand emotionally.
 Hugh: It is. Millennials will not substitute anything for integrity and authenticity. The boomers have done some disingenuous things, and millennials don’t want anything to do with it. Actually, my article in my magazine Nonprofit Professional Performance 360 is about the similarities between the boomers and the millennials.
 We are going to wrap up here. Russ, I would like you to do a wrap-up on what you’ve heard. Russ has been taking notes on Ed Bogle sound bites. Then I will ask you, Ed, for your closing thoughts.
 Russell Dennis, what do you have to say on the end of this interview?
 Russell: This has all been good information. It’s very important to have a strategy; everything starts with strategy. You get nowhere if you don’t know what you’re doing. It’s critical to have younger people engaged. Some of these issues I have seen as a veteran, going to veteran events and organizations, there are no veterans under 25 at any of these events. In my mind, that’s a problem. We see this across the spectrum. Your work has to mean something, or it does mean something. It means something to people out there. It’s getting connected to the people that the work means something to that is the challenge. That takes work. There is a lot of work that has to be done internally, and you constantly have to have an improvement system and constantly measure and monitor what you’re doing. You have to be excited about it because if you’re not excited about it, who will write you a check? They will not be excited about your work if you are not excited about it either. It’s really important.
 When it comes to masterminds and mentoring, I like the idea of reverse mentoring: getting some of these millennials in to teach older guys like us about these processes and new things. There is an opportunity inside an organization to do reverse mentoring because we have to bridge that generation gap if you are going to be relevant down the road.
 Hugh: Once again, Russell one-ups me. Ed, take us out. What are some closing thoughts for people? Thank you, Russ.
 Ed: Strategy is the discipline. It’s part of your management process. It starts with your constituents and how you are going to serve them and how you are going to migrate it over time. Clearly understanding your brand and your emotion for them. That is where it all starts and stops. There was a brilliant guy, Theodore Leavitt, who was one of the founders of the real-marketing strategy world, who said a business, or even an organization for that matter, is all about finding and keeping a customer. You better take your constituents and understand them and your brand and what it represents to them.
 Hugh: Great words. Ed, thank you for sharing lots of really useful stuff tonight.
 Ed: Anybody that wants any further information on this, I am happy to share templates and stuff.
 Hugh: Thanks, Ed, for being with us.
 Ed: Thank you.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Ed Bogle</strong> is a Strategic Planning Consultant that serves as a mentor, coach and consultant to entrepreneurs and non-profit executives. In the case of non-profits, Ed specializes in developing and implementing innovative solutions in defining their strategic value to those they serve and building a "brand" that moves beyond scarcity to a level of abundance.Â  His firm ideationEDGE works with their clients to understand their "value" creation and "revenue" production.</p> <p>He has worked with and served as a coach and mentor to several non-profits and two of Inc Magazine's Entrepreneur of the Year regional winners. He developed a deep passion for non-profits through a frustration from serving on boards and seeing great visionary work die due to funding shortages and donor fatigue.  Understanding revenues and creating abundance comes from carefully crafted strategies driven from a long-term vision and a constancy of purpose.</p> <p>Some questions to ponder:</p> <ul> <li>What is strategy and why is it important to the charity I lead?</li> <li>Does a written strategic plan limit my creativity?Â</li> <li>Why and how should me board be involved in the planning?</li> <li>How does anyone predict the future with any success?</li> </ul> <p><strong>Here's the Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Nonprofit Chat – Ed Bogle – 7/18/17</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome. It’s another session of the Nonprofit Chat live. We’re going to talk about some important stuff tonight. Russell Dennis has been my co-host on this series. Russell, how are you doing tonight?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> It’s another fine night here in the mountain west. Beautiful skies and life is good.</p> <p><strong>Hugh</strong>: You are always good. We are in the old mountains. I am in southwest Virginia, and it’s a lovely evening. We have a mutual friend on here tonight. Besides that, we know he is a very skilled professional. We know he works with business leaders on all levels. He has a special niche of helping entrepreneurs get clarity on what their vision is, on what their market is, and how we get there. We call that strategy. He has done some amazing projects with some specific nonprofits, and there have been some that have really done well. Ed understands the nonprofit space. He understands what the challenges are, and how to come around and address those challenges. Ed, welcome to the Nonprofit Chat tonight.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> Thanks, Hugh. I am privileged to be here. I have a great passion for the nonprofit world. We need them to do their jobs and live their vision and mission so we can make it a better world. I will do what I can to help.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Somebody once taught me that the work of nonprofits is more important now than ever before in history, and there are fewer resources. We have to do really well at describing the impact we are going to have in people’s lives. I think it was a guy named Ed Bogle who told that to me.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> I had a good idea about some of that stuff now, didn’t I? Well, you know, so many nonprofits, and even our churches, come from a position of scarcity so often. That clarity of vision and that clarity of the persona, the branding, you talked a couple sessions ago about the branding world, it is what gets people excited to your brand. It has a business flavor to it. When we do that, we find some pretty magnanimous results. We really like to carry into the nonprofit a lot of the business sector stuff and hopefully do it better.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Our friend David Corbin talked about brand slaughter. We illuminated a few things in that session, as you might expect. Everybody has a uniqueness to share about this. As I understand strategy, it is the framework that is going to help us engage our stakeholders. Otherwise, people are hunting for what to do. It’s the clarity of the sequence. It’s the railroad tracks to get you from where you are to where you want to be. Before we get into the strategy world, let’s talk about the Bogle world. It’s not the wine Bogle world; it’s the Ed Bogle world.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> I drink a lot of that. Nah, I’m kidding.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> But your people bring it over and you have a whole closetful.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> At one time, we had 45 bottles of Bogle wine in our house.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I know what to ask for next time I’m there. Let’s talk about Ed Bogle. Who is Ed Bogle, and what is your background in strategy, and why is that important to you? We’ll talk about you first, and then we’ll talk about it for others.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> Basically, my undergraduate was in marketing, and my graduate degree was in strategy. But I was trained as an investment banker and commercial lender until that bank brought in a new president and said, “We want you to be the marketing and strategy guy because you have the educational background for it. You just finished our year-long management and development program, so you can do that.” I took that on, and the long and short of that story is that we grew the bank from $250 million to $1.6 billion in less than four years without an acquisition. It was all organic growth because he gave me carte blanche to focus on what was changing in the marketplace and how we related to our customers.</p> <p>That early on lesson was all about getting not only outside of the box, but it was innovating. We did some innovating stuff. Some of you may have heard of a little piece of equipment called an ATM. We put the first remote automated teller system in the country out. We put 12 units out all at once and promoted the living daylights out of it. That was 1975. The importance of that lesson is to look for the innovation, to look for the change. We so far exceeded our own expectations of what that would do.</p> <p>After I left the banking industry, I went to work for a little firm called Ernst and Young, then one of the big eight. I was part of a team of seven that built their strategy process over about a year long. Then I was leading a team of three to adopt that to the entrepreneurial services world. It was in my days at Ernst and Young that I had my first brushes with the nonprofit world. I saw a lot of people running around with a lot of tasks and people holding out their hats begging for the same donors every year. That is where I learned a term called donor fatigue, which all of us are familiar with. We wear them out. While I was at Ernst and Young, we created a process called focus strategic framework. Our plans end up on one page, and we have used it in the nonprofit sector as well as the church sector. It’s all about change.</p> <p>One of the great lessons of strategy that I learned through that course of effort is one of the only constants is change. If you agree that the world is going to change, and you agree it is pretty unpredictable. Back when I used to speak and lecture, I asked, “How many people believe the conditions under which your business exist today will be the same three years from now?” I have never had anybody raise their hands. I would suspect that would be true in the nonprofit world. The way you conduct your business won’t be the same three years from now. You get that clarity of vision, that clarity of purpose, that engagement culture that really goes with this.</p> <p>People ride for the brand. That is the critical part of the integration of the framework process. We have a new vision, mission, brand strategy. We have set objectives and all of that, and we know that is going to change, so we like to get people on a horizon of 5-7 years out, then concentrate what we are going to do the next 12-18 months. Then build such a culture internally that people are engaged in change. They have their antennae out. It’s not solely the responsibility of the leadership of any organization; it’s a responsibility of everybody. I don’t know if the brand guys talk to this, but if I can get anybody in my organization riding for the brand—they defend the brand, understand the brand, have clarity on vision, mission, purpose of the organization—their role in fulfilling the brand, and I am not talking about their job description. If I get that, then I will have the ability to change and integrate and build a culture that will be successful.</p> <p>Then if I study the marketplace, it starts and stops with a customer or somebody that you are engaging in your organization. It starts with your constituents, your stakeholders. How are we creating value for them, and how do we create that value over time?</p> <p>If I pick on the churches for just a second, why is it that all the big churches out there now seem to be these rock ’n’ roll churches? The non-traditional churches are having trouble getting people in their pews, yet the churches like- There is one here that has 26 locations around the country called Life Church. They have four locations in Tulsa. That place is packed. They have six services on Sunday, and all six of them are packed. Where is that coming from? It’s all about understanding your target market and how you serve them.</p> <p>I’ll quit there; otherwise, it will start to feel like I am teaching class.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is part of what it is. Russ, does that pique some interest for you?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It all makes perfect sense. These are some of the things that I have been trying to convey to people in creating a framework when I work with nonprofits. It’s getting to that mission and understanding who you are at your core. Knowing people at your very core is important. Those churches with the music, what they are going to find is they have a younger audience. You’re going out there and really talking to markets. It almost seems like dirty language to some in the nonprofit world, but what we have are customers; we just have different segments. Donors are one segment. The people who get your services are the other. If you don’t understand what they need, the people that you put programs together to serve, nobody will access your services. I have had talks with people who say, “I don’t get it. Nobody is coming.” We went through and talked about what some of those needs for those clients were. There is definitely a need, but they decided they are going to operate out of a location that was not accessible to the people they wanted to serve.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The church world is not very different than some of the other worlds. I was on a chamber webinar today with one of the chambers in Florida. Engagement, and especially engagement with millennials, but they said the other organizations in the neighborhood, the rotaries and other service clubs, have had sidebar with the chamber saying that they are having trouble growing their membership. They are having trouble engaging people. It was a whole session about board empowerment today. I suggested with a lack of strategy, people don’t know where to be engaged or what to do. They aren’t really clear what the endgame is. Furthermore, if they weren’t part of the initial planning process, or at last a revision or upgrading, and doing tactics for the long-term objectives, they really aren’t engaged at all. There is a trend for boards not to be effective.</p> <p>Let’s go back to the centrality of strategy. As you know, I approach the world with the left and right brain. As a musician, we have a very specific framework. In music, it’s the sheet music itself, the musical score. All the players have their parts. The analogy I make is that it’s their strategy, and everybody on the team has their own piece of the action plan. They know when to play, how loud to play, how fast to play, and we direct the process rather than try to do it all. There is the heavy lifting on the front to put that together. Respond to some of that long dialogue about strategy. I am an Ed Bogle strategy fan. You strategize your life as well as everyone else.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> My wife also told me that that didn’t work very well in strategizing your life and the raising of your children. With the latter, I would totally agree. It’s impossible to strategize raising children, so give it up if you are trying it. I tried it, and it didn’t work.</p> <p>In response to what you were talking about, Hugh, the whole thing is you want everybody in your organization to be bought into the mission and vision of what you are doing. Therefore, they need to be a part of it. That doesn’t mean they need to sit through long planning meetings, but they need to be a part of the development of that strategy. In particular, one of the things we do oftentimes is we have people in the organization that have different roles or employees, in the case of some of them, that they write their description of their role. Not their job description, not their daily task, but what is their role in completing or living to that vision and mission of that organization? It’s stunning what we come up with. If we attach them to this one-page framework, or any framework you use, what happens is they now have ownership.</p> <p>Russell mentioned common sense earlier, and the old adage is that it’s not so common. What in particular that gives organizations sustainability, stickability, is the engagement of cultures. I want people internally riding for the brand. That means they are bought into that constant collaboration and innovation. They don’t have silos of jobs. They are wrapped around what is our value, our brand promise is to our constituents. What is our brand position? How do they attach to that? What is their role in doing that? We use a few tools to do that.</p> <p>Hugh, I know you have a few things you do with organizations to bring them to that level. Gosh, if they’ve got this framework down and they understand it. If you give them vision, if you have a one-page framework that links from mission to vision, values, purposes, grand strategy all the way out to long-term objectives, competencies, capabilities, long-term objectives, short-term objectives, strategies, and action plan, it’s a big one page.</p> <p>At the end of the day, I have had clients blow up wall-size versions of this framework, and we would do training sessions where they would work with their division, their people, for themselves individually as to how I am attached to that framework, that strategy. Then they would all autograph it. There is one client I started working with nearly 30 years ago that still does that stuff. They are running out of places for people to sign. It’s amazing the difference it makes when you bring that level of consciousness up for their connection to the organization, vision and mission, as opposed to a set of tasks, a job task. It’s critically important.</p> <p>I don’t care if you’re a charity, church, or for-profit. In today’s world, if the only constant is change, how do you change? You have to have the people going with you. In fact, if you really look deeply at innovation in organizations, it usually comes from the lowest level, who are the people closest to our constituents or customers. Am I making any sense?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You are. Addressing the needs of the world. When you teach, usually when I am with you, you are teaching me. You don’t know it, but I am listening.</p> <p>The describing the impact, especially for charities. If we are going to attract people who want to be engaged with us, as you know, in SynerVision, we are encouraging people to use other words than “volunteer.” We want servant leaders, we want community leaders, and in churches, we want members of ministry. There is another term that indicates they are active and are doing something meaningful. Volunteer means it’s laidback and I will do what I have to do until I go home. We are about changing paradigms, and we get stuck in the activity mode rather than the results mode. Part of what I value about your teaching is we define the end result, we look at what we are going toward, so then we get people looking in the same direction.</p> <p>I heard you say a couple things here, and then I want to come back and ask you about the significance. One is about the one page. One was I’ve met your children and I think you did a fine job. They are fine human beings.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> My wife did.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s usually the case.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> Credit where credit is due, please.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We overcame our shortages. What is the significance of being able to have it on one page?</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> There are a couple of points about that. One is it’s easy to digest and look at it. There are a lot of supporting documents sometimes. You can go to an electronic file on Mission, and there will be tons of documents and videos for people who want to understand and learn about those parts of it. We call it an agenda for leadership because it links everything together. The leaders of the organization now have the ability to go out and say, “Hey, here is our framework.” When most of our clients do quarterly reviews, including the nonprofits, they go in and do what we call the rearview mirror in the windshield. Rearview mirror is what has happened to us and why. Then you have the windshield, which is bigger. That is the proportionate amount of time you spend on that. The rearview mirror, what happened to you, you can’t do anything about it, but you can take a little bit of the lessons learned. Some organizations now aren’t even doing any rearview mirror. The Twitter CEO said a few years ago, “We don’t even look in the rearview mirror anymore. It’s all forward.” It’s a little bit of creating processes internally. What you do is you look in the rearview mirror, you look out your windshield, and you bring it back into that framework and see if you need to change strategies. Is it something we need to do now? Do we need to reallocate resources? That one-page framework becomes a document from which you can make decision and assess changes in your organizations and make things happen.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is some synergy in what you said and what David Corbin said. Everybody brings a little bit of extra perspective to the topics that people think they know a lot about but we really don’t.</p> <p>I like that. Russell, do you have a comment or question brewing? He needs a hard question.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You can’t stump a man with as much experience as he has. He has been at a few rodeos. A lot of what he is talking about are things I try to incorporate. Having everybody participate in it is important. That seems to be a little bit of a problem spot from what I am seeing. You get a few people. You might even have a power driver or some really strong personality in the group, and they just take over. People don’t have that buy-in if you don’t bring everybody together to formulate. I see that again and again.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> That doesn’t mean you have to drive people through lots of meetings. Especially in the corporate world, we have a lot of meetings. A client of mine refers to a staff meeting as a staff infection, which is what they affectionately call it. We could get into too many meetings. There are all sorts of tools and techniques to use to increase participation. It’s not top-down. It’s top-down, bottom’s up, continuous flow of thought and conversation about strategy. Strategy is not the annual perfunctory enema that we go through to come up with a budget, which is what most corporations do. It is a process that should be integrated in and be a part of your management systems. It is not an outlier that occurs once a year. Create a plan and a budget. Hugh loves this phrase, but most of those plans end up as credenzaware. They go through this process. Any of you who worked in corporate America know what I’m talking about. They go through this annual ballyhoo of our assumptions and our plan. They hit the first of the financial projections, and expenses are too high, incomes and revenues too low, so they go back and redo it and redo it and redo it. Finally in December, the managers say, “What the heck is the number you want me to get?” Each department comes up with a way to hit their numbers. Now what do they have? We have a set of numbers not driven by a strategy.</p> <p>That spills over into the nonprofit world, too. A lot of the nonprofit world makes a lot of assumptions about what they cannot do. I don’t know about you guys personally, but when I work with the nonprofit world, there is a lot of, “Well, we can’t do that.” I worked with the Housing Authority of the city of Tulsa. One of the board members called the director an excuse bag. We’re not funded. We can’t be funded. We don’t have enough funding. We can’t raise that kind of money. They’d get into these circles of spiral downs. I have done it and seen it done elsewhere to where we can bring a level of excitement.</p> <p>Some of these nonprofits, it might take two decades to get to a certain point, but think about in the context of a corporation like Apple. It took them years to get to where they are. Did they have a road map to end up at the iPhone and iPad and all the services they provide now? No. They evolved to that.</p> <p>Any leader of any organization is the leader of change. It’s not my job to come up with a five-year plan that we are going to stick to, live through, and file through. Go over the top with our energy levels and our dedication to that? No. It’s the doctrine that may drive you. The purposes, the value systems are really important. Values can be a competency incidentally as a side note. What’s important to me is the people are bought into that, including your constituents. Where a lot of organizations make the mistake is in raising money or attracting people to volunteer, they don’t get them excited about it.</p> <p>Most of those organizations are about as exciting as- They have been doing the same thing for 24 years. I worked with one organization that is probably in its 30th year of the same annual fundraiser. It raises about the same annual amount of money. They just switch faces once a while because donors pass away or get fatigued. Where is the excitement? They have to get connected with your purpose, your why. A lot of folks forget about that. We have to go out and be very creative about how we craft and raise those funds and the funding.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> To your point, there are two videos that are helpful. One is “Begin with Why” the Simon Sinek Ted Talk. “The Way We Think of Charity is Dead Wrong” by Dan Pallotta. He talks about how we have this perception that we can’t do it, that we can’t spend money on salaries or marketing. There is this fictitious percentage of overhead. Is your overhead too high? If you have to spend money on marketing and on bodies so you can serve the constituency and actually get traction to the vision you have articulated, I think busting those old perceptions- That is what I am all about: helping people shift their paradigm.</p> <p>I want to talk about the military part of tactics and transformational leadership because there is a synergy that occurred to me we have never talked about. We will expose it out here in public. But when you talk about strategy, I have actually had nonprofit leaders say, “No, no. I don’t want to write anything down. It will limit my creativity,” to which I come back and say, “This is a solution map.” You’ve seen the SynerVision solution map, and you say that it’s strategy, Hugh. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there?</p> <p>I want you to respond this. My answer is that the strategy, the system, is the container for creativity. You can now be creative because you know how to be creative. You know where you’re going, and you get the energy. Part of this is looking at your phases as you grow, so you are always keeping fresh. Talk about how that limits creativity and how you keep it fresh, your process of migrating it over time.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> The limitations on creativity is because we, corporations especially, everybody looks to the management for the answers, right? Creativity comes from the top, and that is totally 100% false. That is not generally where it’s going to come from. The creativity or the future of any organization comes from within the people themselves and an examination on a periodic basis of that external environment is changing, both for opportunity and threat. Did Corbin talk about SWOT analysis?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> He did not.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> He and I both abhor them, not because it’s a bad tool, but the way we implement it. Everyone has the tendency to want to talk about what? Their strengths and their opportunities. They sweep the rest of the stuff, the weaknesses and the threats, under the carpet. If you have two of them, you have a SO-SO strategy because you are only focused on opportunities and strengths. You build an organization in response to people and constituents and how they are changing over time.</p> <p>One of my great frustrations when I run planning sessions is that I know I have young people in the room, and I know they are creative as hell and they have great ideas and thoughts. They don’t want to embarrass themselves and bring that out. The leadership doesn’t necessarily bring that out. In fact, in my early career, when I facilitated some of those meetings, it became a dialogue between myself and the CEO of the company. Boy was that meaningful. Not. We were limiting the creativity. We shift around, and we invite that creativity in. In fact, I encourage my CEOs of both nonprofit and for-profit organizations not to lay out scenarios. Let’s come up with the scenarios. Let’s put the antennae up.</p> <p>To me, one of the signs of great success in an organization is when I get compulsive innovation and collaboration. People talk around the water cooler, so to speak, although there aren’t many of those anymore, about what’s going on, what the future is, what the organization is. We do periodic methodologies where we check in with people and find out what is changing about our constituents. For example, if you want to get millennials involved with your organization today, they won’t touch you with a ten-foot pole unless you can identify your why, your mission, your purpose, and how they have a role in fulfilling that. It’s a whole different ball game.</p> <p>The limiting behaviors come because we have a tendency as leaders to bring people down the path we believe are important. That becomes trickier in the church world because they have doctrine. I also find doctrine personally as an excuse not to address what our members need.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh yeah.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> That’s a fact based upon my experience. What was the second half you wanted me to talk about?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Actually to that point, that is one of the things limiting the church. The Methodist church is losing 1,200 members a week. That is not unique among mainline dominations. We have not made it relevant. We don’t have a strategy. The Methodist church globally says that their mission is to make disciples. They need a strategist to help them develop a mission. What do you do after you develop disciples? We could talk about that all the time. Having someone who understands how strategy drives results. It’s not inside. It’s somebody external.</p> <p>The other part is your multi-phase growth plan and migrating it over time.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> What we do is bring in an organization into a three- or four-phase growth plan. That will cover a 5-7-year horizon. We don’t have much detail, nor are we doing resourcing on phase three or four. We are resourcing that next phase because we are then using our quarterly meetings and our interchanges about what is changing and the opportunity, the rearview mirror, and the windshield to determine how we are going to change it. We continually update the phase growth plan. Even in the financial arena, we do a rolling horizon set of financials. Every quarter, we update that plan literally. It takes less than half a day to do it. But what a great investment. You are always revising that plan. Once you start down that path or mode, and you have people engaged in doing that, it changes the whole dynamics of the organization and its growth. I have seen it. I have done it in nonprofits.</p> <p>My favorite thing, the Life Senior Services here in Tulsa where I reside, that is such a dynamic organization. My latest one down in Houston, Texas called Reasoning Minds is a nonprofit all about math education. The bottom line is they are sitting right now on $25 million a year of revenues and income streams because of how they have structured. We got them out of scarcity mode and into a phase growth plan. They know where they want to be five years from now, and they had to bite the bullet and do some things differently, coming out of our strategy, getting rid of some things that were skeletons that hung in a closet forever, like committees. They were wasting time because nothing was attached to a framework; it was just commotion to commotion.</p> <p>Don’t we all hate committees? When I was in the corporate world, they had committee meetings. You know how I treat committee meetings? I say, “Okay, you can form a committee as long as you write the epitaph of a committee.” What day are they going to die, and what is going to be the epitaph that says what is going to be accomplished?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What is your definition of a committee? It’s a place where good ideas…</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> …Die. No, they have a tendency to become- We have this committee and that committee, but they are not attached to a strategy. They become functional because they are supposed to do things. I’m not saying you kill committees. I am just saying to change the dynamics of what they are attached to. What is their contribution in the overall strategic plan? In the objectives? How do they contribute to that? Get the committee to identify that, and then you migrate it over time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I don’t know about this killing thing. I have spoken to a few people about team execution, and they got really excited because they thought they were going to get to shoot people.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> They though execution was a firing squad, huh?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I shouldn’t joke like that. This is a lot of really good tactical stuff. Let’s look at the grand strategy as a model of you have an objective, and then you define the tactics for that objective. Transformational leadership was birthed out of the military model, where you have to have a high-performing team that you cannot micro-manage when you are in combat. I have reframed that to be an orchestra model, and in a concert, you can’t be telling people what to do. You have to have rehearsed. It’s the integration of what’s written into performance. We have to make it come alive. The grand strategy comes out of this world.</p> <p>Speak a little bit about objectives. We see a lot of people doing this, that, and the other. We are talking to social entrepreneurs who might be running a church, charity, or business. Nonprofit executives are entrepreneurs because we are not doing the corporate thing. People ask me if all entrepreneurs suffer from insanity. I say, “Heck no, we enjoy it.”</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> Well said.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This military model of laying down this track, speak a little bit about the genesis of strategy and how that relates. Work in the leadership piece if you will.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> The whole thing, just to expound on what you are saying there. Strategy has its birth. When I became a student of strategy, there was a gentleman who wrote a book called <em>Ongoing Strategist</em> by Michael David. The book was published in the early ‘80s. He was the mentor who Arthur Young hired to supervise us seven young renegades on how to put this process together to sell it to our clients. He made us read Napoleon’s <em>Maxim on War,</em> Sun Tzu’s <em>The Art of War, Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War,</em> whose basic premise was nobody understood the mission was; therefore, how could you ever win? It was pretty well borne out in the Vietnam War sadly. Some of the Middle East Wars had that flavor to them. It’s hard for them to react in the field to what they are supposed to be doing. If you go deep into the military axioms, one word you never hear said is goals. Whenever you hear me use the word objective, they are interchangeable. Goals have the tendency to be softer, fluffier, not with a sharp edge. Military people are like they are going to take Mt. Sarabachi by next Tuesday. We want that kind of sharpness in our objectives in our organization so that the departments can break it down into pieces.</p> <p>The other thing that you learn about military stuff when you dive deeper is mass scale and superiority of defense. Charities don’t have to work in these terms, but if you think about it, our nonprofits out there are competing for dollars, volunteers, and people. There is a thing about building a defensible position. The military world and its leadership, as you were talking about, if you get those troops out there, they are brought into the mission. They know we are going to win this war. The mission is to complete this war. They understand the mission. Their attachment to that becomes how they behave in the marketplaces, they execute your strategies and deploy your resources. It all ties back to that mission and that set of objectives. With real clarity of objectives. We let our business units and our subdivisions of our organization come back and say, “No, no, no, your long-term objectives are wrong. We need to change those.” Oftentimes they are not shooting high enough.</p> <p>A lot of the military stuff involves leadership, but it involves it to the point where people are doing what I talked about earlier, which was almost compulsive innovation and collaboration can make things occur. Work across departmental lines. It’s not selfish. That’s a lot of the problem with corporations. There are too many people competing with each other to rise to the top. Inside of those charity organizations, I think it is more critical maybe that we have that clarity of vision and mission and the attachment to purpose. The leadership has got to help embellish that and get people to buy into that, not just tell them what it is, but to buy into it. Why should they buy into it? How does it impact their daily work life when they are working with the organization?</p> <p>I don’t know if I have successfully done the consultant bit and avoided answering your question, or if I was going where you thought I was going to go with that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell, why don’t you weigh in on that?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I think you answered quite a bit there, why it’s important for nonprofit leaders to buy into these types of things. I think that thinking is a lot softer in these nonprofit circles. With today’s climate, we have to be firmer in our thinking because you are in business, you are providing value, and people need to see that value. We are in a place where there is a lot of noise out there, and people have a lot to choose from. If you don’t give people good, firm calls to action, they will look to somebody else to solve the problem. With some of the problems we are facing, you have to be tenacious to get the resources and make a real difference in people’s lives. The climate has changed in terms of what is out here, what is available. The government is looking to do less and less. They don’t necessarily do everything.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> Sometimes it appears that way. Sometimes it doesn’t. I don’t know. If you figure out what direction our government is currently heading in, please send me a memo. I need to understand. I’m confused.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I was just thinking about that remark that you made about the consultant not answering your question thing. You are going to have to get a lot better in the doubletalk to run .</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> I would never succeed as a politician. I have been told I am excessively blunt in declaring the truth. Guess you can’t do that as a politician.</p> <p>The importance of our charities, too, one comment came into my mind. We have a lot of people who are downtrodden and in poverty. We have a lot of bigotry in this country, let’s face it. We have a lot of issues that are social issues. When the people get engaged and involved, that is when they get solved. Government does not have a great track record of solving social issues. Nor did our forefathers ever frame it to do that. We need our charities to step up and succeed.</p> <p>The good part about it is there is an awful lot of money and wealth out there that want to get involved into charities. Businesses, for-profit corporations, will not survive another decade without a purpose-driven agenda. If they don’t stand for something for the greater good, their bottom line, their stock-holders, will not exist. The millennials don’t buy into that.</p> <p>My youngest son got invited to General Motors up in Michigan. I had happy feet because we had just dropped $140,000 on his education. I thought that he would get this great job. He came back and said, “I can’t work there. I don’t like the way they do what I’m asked to do. I don’t like anything about their values or systems. It’s all about the profits. Their processes are bad. I will fail if I try to do that.” I did the standard dad bit and said, “Just get it on your resume for a little while.”</p> <p>Coming back full circle to that, the public/private partnership is only going to get bigger. You see more and more organizations working with nonprofits and dedicating some resources. We have a lot of billionaires out there who are looking for something. I got involved in a deal on a big project, and if you took the five wealthiest families in the country, three of the five were involved in this project. They want to get their money back out in circulation for meaningful things. There is an opportunity to do that, but they just don’t want to hand their money to another charity that will fizzle and have a low-end impact. They want the exciting stuff. If you are a purpose-driven business—I am not talking about building a foundation and handing out money, I am talking about truly getting involved and adopting and working with these charities to really make things happen. That is where the leadership comes in.</p> <p>A quick side-note to Hugh in the leadership world: When we so succeeded with the Life Senior Services group and built such a powerful, responsive, well-thought-out organization where people fly in from all over the country to see, their question is, “How the hell did you guys do that?” We have around 36 board members. People will think that is a bit unwieldy. People are looking at it from the aspect of the board supervising and overseeing. That board is there to work with smaller groups and truly get involved in the execution of the strategy. We have attracted some business leaders out of the community, and a few of them provide money and help us raise additional money. I like a self-sustaining revenue model if I can get to it.</p> <p>The whole leadership thing is critically important, but you have to do it in a context of something people get excited about.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That brings us to the third question I posted earlier. The third one to ponder is about the board being engaged in the planning process. To your point, Ed, the integration of strategy and performance, you see people that write a strategy and it becomes credenzaware. It never gets integrated into the culture. We see people doing leadership and teams in the absence of a strategy. That is why I have created this nonconsulting position of the transformational leadership strategist. You can’t separate leadership and strategy in my world.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> I agree.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The third point to ponder was about the board’s engagement. We have spoken about it in this conversation. We are on the down-end of this hour. I want to hit some of the highlights about integrating the board into the process. In my experience of 31 years, the planners and the doers are the same. Otherwise, they will never be engaged. Talk about that a little bit. We are going to talk about how we predict the future as we wrap this up. Talk about how we engage the board and that process.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> The way we do that is because we use the focus framework process, which we developed in the hallowed halls of Ernst &amp; Young years ago. I have tweaked it a lot since then and adapted it to the nonprofit world. We typically do is the board level talks of discussion, we set up with the boards that works really well, Hugh, and I think you do some of this also. One of the reasons we have 34 board members on Life Senior Services is we have mentoring and masterminds going on. I call it the M&amp;Ms and the As. We build mentors. We use our board to mentor some of these people and help them build plans. We help them sit with the departmental people and build plans and facilitate. It makes a huge difference. The Masterminds is us masterminding the future. Everyone has inputs and portals to all of the things going on externally to our organization that might impact us in the future. We have masterminds going on, so people plug in and out of those. The leadership wants to monitor what is going on there.</p> <p>You know me, Hugh. I am an alliance partnership freak. I think one of the ways you get things done. One reason that Life Senior Services is successful and the Housing Authority is successful is because we built alliances with the people we needed to to execute our strategies. The leadership has got to in the planning process meet- There are two pieces to it. There is the overall purpose of the organization. What are our longer-term visions and objectives? There needs to be some clear definition there as to how you see that so we can at least get a scope of what we are trying to accomplish. The other part of that is the lower pieces of the organization flow that information back up, they react to that direction, some of them have been involved in mentoring and masterminding processes and have now created some departmental and divisional plans. Now we have a total integration between the board and the lower levels. That is not possible in every organization, but it works well for most. Did I successfully avoid your question?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is not one right answer here.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> It does depend on the personality of the organization. One quick comment because I don’t want to miss it in our last few minutes is that people who volunteer and get involved in boards flat-out need to be excited about what it is you’re doing. Too many of these organizations don’t look to their future in how it’s really exciting.</p> <p>Back in the day when we were forming what was Tulsa Senior Services and now Life Senior Services formulated and moving forward, that organization was not exciting. It was mamby-pamby, oh they need a hotline, they need to find services, they need information, they need access to housing, caregivers. It is more of the perfunctory things these people need. We transformed the organization through the leadership. Man, when we start talking about the impact and the why of the organization, people bought into that. Then we transformed that out into the action. We did it pieces at a time. When we got that level of excitement up, then we attracted the funding.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s the key. How can you say, “Give us money” when we haven’t really done the preparation on the front end?</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> They don’t know what your brand is. I don’t know if you got into talking about brand, but people don’t buy into a brand today unless they connect to it emotionally.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> One of the things that came up with both David Dunworth and David Corbin was that everybody in the organization represents the brand. Part of the engagement of the board is to understand what the brand promise, brand identity, and the brand pieces really are. How do they fairly represent the organization? It’s not done that way in most of the charities that I’ve seen. I don’t know about you, but there is a real connection of who you are and who you represent. Look at dragging off an airplane and you have Ann Coulter out of her seat. Ann Coulter missed a great opportunity. Delta was able to make it about her rather than their poor customer service. We won’t mention the airline, sorry. You can take a pic. Those are brand slaughter. It does damage organizationally.</p> <p>All of this works together. It seems like it is an endless process with a lot of work. It is some heavy lifting and intense thinking. It is probably not as hard as most people make it.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> No, when you do it as an evolution, it’s like raising your children. You won’t open things up to them overnight and have them understand all of their possibilities. It is an evolution, and that is why we go through a phase growth plan and have them continually update that. It keeps the vision fresh.</p> <p>Back to the brand one more time. It’s the brand emotion. All brands emote. It took me years to convince software developers that their brands had emotion, but I finally won those battles in most of those organizations. Even in your charities and nonprofits, what is your brand? What is exciting about your brand? Why would I want to get attached? One thing about millennials is they coincidentally by 2020 will be 40% of the work force. By 2025, they will be north of 55 or 60%. We will be dealing with the people that are millennials. They have to understand the purpose, the emotion of your brand to get connected to it. I am not saying categorically, but maybe that is the problem with your churches. They are not connecting their brand emotionally.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It is. Millennials will not substitute anything for integrity and authenticity. The boomers have done some disingenuous things, and millennials don’t want anything to do with it. Actually, my article in my magazine <em>Nonprofit Professional Performance 360</em> is about the similarities between the boomers and the millennials.</p> <p>We are going to wrap up here. Russ, I would like you to do a wrap-up on what you’ve heard. Russ has been taking notes on Ed Bogle sound bites. Then I will ask you, Ed, for your closing thoughts.</p> <p>Russell Dennis, what do you have to say on the end of this interview?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This has all been good information. It’s very important to have a strategy; everything starts with strategy. You get nowhere if you don’t know what you’re doing. It’s critical to have younger people engaged. Some of these issues I have seen as a veteran, going to veteran events and organizations, there are no veterans under 25 at any of these events. In my mind, that’s a problem. We see this across the spectrum. Your work has to mean something, or it does mean something. It means something to people out there. It’s getting connected to the people that the work means something to that is the challenge. That takes work. There is a lot of work that has to be done internally, and you constantly have to have an improvement system and constantly measure and monitor what you’re doing. You have to be excited about it because if you’re not excited about it, who will write you a check? They will not be excited about your work if you are not excited about it either. It’s really important.</p> <p>When it comes to masterminds and mentoring, I like the idea of reverse mentoring: getting some of these millennials in to teach older guys like us about these processes and new things. There is an opportunity inside an organization to do reverse mentoring because we have to bridge that generation gap if you are going to be relevant down the road.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Once again, Russell one-ups me. Ed, take us out. What are some closing thoughts for people? Thank you, Russ.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> Strategy is the discipline. It’s part of your management process. It starts with your constituents and how you are going to serve them and how you are going to migrate it over time. Clearly understanding your brand and your emotion for them. That is where it all starts and stops. There was a brilliant guy, Theodore Leavitt, who was one of the founders of the real-marketing strategy world, who said a business, or even an organization for that matter, is all about finding and keeping a customer. You better take your constituents and understand them and your brand and what it represents to them.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great words. Ed, thank you for sharing lots of really useful stuff tonight.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> Anybody that wants any further information on this, I am happy to share templates and stuff.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thanks, Ed, for being with us.</p> <p><strong>Ed:</strong> Thank you.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Increase Your Reach and Donations</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/increase-your-reach-and-donations</link>
      <description>Increase Your Reach and Donations: Learn About How to Get $10K in Free Adwords [caption id="attachment_1523" align="alignleft" width="150"] Pip Patton[/caption]
 Pip Patton and John Zentmeyer will share secrets about how to get $10K in free Google AdWords monthly and how to drive more traffic to your website for more engagement and more publicity. Their company,  Search Intelligence LLC, based in Tampa Florida, is a digital marketing agency.
 'We believe that marketing in today's digital age should not be confusing to utilize and benefit from.'
 We help you accomplish this by offering digital marketing services that are easy to understand and implement. Our services start with SEO and include optimized website design, social media management, video marketing and traffic analysis so you can make informed decisions about your marketing strategy.
 We also work with non-profits by helping them apply for and obtain a Google Grant. A Google Grant is a grant of $10,000 in AdWords advertising each month for your non-profit. You can use the grant to promote your non-profit and gain more exposure online; increase awareness, recruit volunteers, promote special events, etc.
 Notes from the Interview
    Why do we care if people come to our websites?
 Need for visibility brings more of people you want to see, online is where people are looking.
 Not ranking on Google is like being 100 miles off the highway with no lights turned on. No one can find you!
 You can’t get the word out on your work if no one can find you.
 How do you figure out who to attract to your website?  
 Extensive interview with client, create keywords and Adwords to drive traffic, find out what people are searching for through online research, very few people aware of what prospects are searching for and tax status is not a factor.
 Online is where more search for info takes place!
 1. What is a Google Grant and How Do I Apply?
 Google’s way to give back to the community; $10,000 month available to 501(c)3; keyword bids restricted to $2 or less; must find enough keywords to use all of the funds.
 Qualifications - verify status as charity; apply online; campaign (Adwords) must be ready to go when launching 
 2. What is SEO and why do I need it for my charity or church? 
 Paid v. Organic Search priority given to paid; Ranking based on most relevant to search according to Google who cater to their own customers; can use best keywords when they are paid for; Google rates the information you provide, you have to build authority; organic search provides 5 times amount of results as paid search; you have to build credibility through your results; good information adds to your authority!
 Facebook uses pixels attached to your website to build a â€œsmart dat profile.â€ Google does not do this for you.
 LinkedIn relation to Google - optimized profiles are critical to building authority, it helps develop authority
 Organic Reach - Basics
 Clarity around what you do needs to be clear to Google tech; links back to high authority sites on subject helps (on page SEO) must be relevant and valuable; Google grades authority based on links from other sites, social media, or blog posts that are shared or other shared information. This all takes time using SEO.
 Only 18% to 20% of traffic comes from paid search. The rest is organic! The top 3 get the lionâ€™s share!
 Analytics tell you what people type in to find you. Free tutorials available from Google.
 One-third of searches on monthly basis are different from anything theyâ€™ve ever seen before!
 QUUU.com
 Buffer and QUUU work together
 How do people learn how to do SEO in a way that helps them? 
 Creating a presence on the main social media sites use tools like Buffer (link posts to other sites); Quuu - (Aggregator of articles and information for curation); make sure you include some original content that increases engagement
 Basic Visibility Enhancers - get more than one account (the Big 5; Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Google+, and Instagram); have accurate info on all sites; hire Â someone who has expertise because everything changes frequently
 Algorithms for mobile and desktop differ, mobile friendly search is more important all the time; by 2018 it will dominate rankings; far more searches on mobile than desktop!
 Closing Thoughts - (John)Â Go through strategy form to provide the types of information they need to provide good service; stay in your wheelhouse and focus on what you know, let your SEO experts to help you get where you need to be; search terms most relevant to you
 Closing thoughts - (Pipp) - Take time to analyze your site and other information; video is a great tool for conversion, less than 2 minutes is best when it is engaging, speak like you are having a conversation with a single person; video drives up conversion considerably.
 Contact Information
 Search Intelligence, LLC 1520 W Cleveland St
 Tampa, FL 33606
 (813) 321-3390
 http://www.si-5.com
  
 The Interview Transcript
 NPC Interview with Pipp Patton &amp; John Zentmeyer
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome, everyone. We are talking nonprofit language. Our guests tonight are two distinguished-looking gentlemen, Pipp Patton and John Zentmeyer. They are in Florida on the Gulf Coast and in central Florida. They have a very defined expertise. I met Pipp on a couple trips in Orlando doing some interaction with CEOs. You must be a CEO if you are in that group. This company you have, tell me what the name of it is, what inspired you to launch this company, and a little bit about your history and expertise that you bring to this very specialized space.
 Pipp Patton: Thank you for having us on. My background: Over 20 years ago, I was actually in the yellow pages business. I used to work with small businesses, helping them promote themselves and growing through the vehicle of yellow pages back when the yellow page directory was the search engine of choice. Then that changed about 10 years ago. At that time, I was transitioning out of yellow pages. I enjoyed working with business owners, and the technology and the digital arena was of great interest to me. I studied it and tried to learn it. I have been now working about seven years or so in that arena with an agency model, where I help businesses be found in Google search primarily.
 Hugh: I used to buy yellow page ads when I had a camera shop. It was the go-to place to find out who to hire and who to solve your problems. That was a unique spot. You transitioned from that space? Was that a direct transition to the digital marketing that you do?
 Pipp: Yeah, pretty much. At that particular time, I left yellow pages because the company I worked for got bought out by someone else, and they didn’t treat their new acquisition people real well. So it was a good opportunity for me to leave there. At that time, my mom needed some attention and care, so I decided to stay home and take care of her. Shortly thereafter, I had been studying digital marketing and had a couple of people that I met that really needed help in that arena. I helped them, and the business evolved from there.
 Hugh: Awesome. To fall into that. John, you are part of this team. Talk about that. What brought you to this place?
 John Zentmeyer: Directly, Pipp brought me to the place. Pipp and I have done business together off and on, many different ventures, always been good buddies, and always enjoyed bouncing business ideas off each other for over 30 years now. Last year, I was making a transition, and I have owned several businesses. At the time, I was working with a group that I thought I would be at for the rest of my career, but that doesn’t always happen. But Pipp and I had always talked a lot about what he was doing and what was happening in the SEO world. All my career, I have looked for ways to bring large ROIs to companies or to my clients. SEO is a great way to do that. I have always been in the technology world, mostly automation, but this has been a lot of fun, and we have enjoyed working closer together.
 Hugh: Russell Dennis has been stalking you, so Russell, what did you find out about them online?
 Russell Dennis: John said wonderful things about Pipp online. It’s a glowing testimony. There are a number of things. There is this track record of years where you have been getting premium results. Coming from the yellow page world, I saw yellow page ads in my sophomore year of college. I made a truckload of money that summer. This was back in 1995 of course.
 Pipp: That was a good time to be in yellow pages.
 John: It probably wouldn’t work as well this summer.
 Russell: Probably not. I would probably go hungry over the summer. You see things like Yelp, but everything is a known directory. The only real power in that stuff is in the testimonials and getting credibility.
 Hugh: Awesome. That is back when a truckload really meant something. A truckload of money was worth something.
 Russell: That was before the exchange rates went to pot.
 Hugh: Oh gosh, yeah. Guys, we sent out an email today and one just a few minutes ago to tell people they could get $10,000 of free AdWords. We are going to talk about that. These are people who are in what we call social benefit work. They are running a membership organization. It has a tax-exempt status. They are running a church or synagogue, a community foundation, a cause-based charity. There are lots of people who are in education or government organizations, like down the road from me, we have an agency on aging, my peer group. We have a lot of people doing really good work. Why should we care that people come to our website? We want to direct traffic, but let’s talk about why people come. Who do we want to attract? Let’s take it sequentially. Why do we care, and then who do we want to bring to our website?
 Pipp: Whether it’s a nonprofit or a regular for-profit business, you need more customers, more exposure, more people to know who you are and what you do. Whether they have an interest in perhaps volunteering or donating or being involved in special events that you have, taking advantage of what you may teach, all of those things are there, so having a higher profile online will bring more of those eyeballs and ears to you. If people want information about anything, they are online.
 John: Take it one step further. Having a website online and not being ranked in Google anywhere is like having your nonprofit or for-profit business ministry, whatever you’re doing, out in the middle of a very dark desert with no lights. So you cannot be found. If you are providing a service for somebody in a nonprofit arena, then the idea is you want people who are looking for that service to be able to find you. That is the biggest reason that you want to expose yourself on that side. Doesn’t matter what you’re doing. If you’re doing for-profit, you want people to be able to find you.
 Hugh: There are lots of really good organizations doing really fine work that nobody is aware of. It would occur to me that PR is one good reason. I know people will support the cause they believe in. If they can go to somebody’s website and see the impact of the work of the charity—who are we serving, what problem are we solving—how do we figure out which people to attract to the website? That matters a lot, doesn’t it?
 Pipp: It definitely does. In our world, what John and I do, generally when we work with an organization, they are telling us what people are searching for to find them, or at least the basic concept. We will build campaigns around that. If we are doing SEO, then we are going to work to make their site visible for certain keywords, as an example. In the AdWords arena, it’s the same thing. You are bidding on keywords to become visible in a search. If somebody is new to an area and is looking for a specific type of denomination, they may go online to see what’s around them. If you’re not visible, you just missed out on a new member perhaps.
 Hugh: There are a lot of choices in life today, aren’t there?
 Pipp: There sure are. Most businesses, or organizations if you will, today I find aren’t really aware of how many searches there actually are online for their service or product. It’s the single largest pool that exists of prospective new customers, clients. Those are interchangeable words, even in the nonprofit world. It equates to the same thing. If you have a business or an organization, and you are working in a certain arena, there is more search for that information about that online than there is anywhere else.
 Hugh: Awesome.
 John: Hugh, you can relate to this. What happened when you got a yellow page ad?
 Hugh: People would call me up and say, “I see you have this.”
 John: They found you.
 Hugh: That was the go-to place. We actually went to the yellow pages last week to look for some resources for moving.
 We put out a line that people get $10,000 in AdWords. Talk about that program. I have one of these grants, and I don’t know how in the world I got it. Somebody helped me get it. I am still learning how to work it, but I am spending $10,000 a month. Talk about that program. How do people acquire that grant?
 Pipp: It’s a terrific program by Google. This is their way of giving back to the community at large here in the United States .it may be available overseas, too; I’m not sure of that. It’s a grant that they offer to any 501(c)3 for $10,000 a month to use any way the organization sees fit. The determination of the success of any advertising campaign is totally up to you. Google is providing that. The only restriction they put on it is that you can’t bid on a keyword that is more than $2. Now depending on the area you live in, larger areas, certain keywords that might fit your organization might be highly competitive, and they would be well in excess of $2. But just as you found, Hugh, if you work with somebody who understands how to dig out the keywords that still fit the proper niche that you are going after, you can find enough keywords to bid on to utilize those dollars.
 Hugh: I think I have 24,000 keywords in all of the things that are related to us, and we have an average position of 2.5 on a search.
 Pipp: That is terrific. That is very good. And you are working on a national level, correct?
 Hugh: I’m working with anybody who speaks English. We got Philippines, Australia, New Zealand.
 Pipp: There are many organizations who would be able to take the same approach. If it was a local church or synagogue, an organization like that, they might be more defined by a geographic area. But still, the exposure that they can gain from that is just fabulous, and it is a really terrific program that Google has put out there and made available to all the 501(c)3s.
 Hugh: How do you get it? How do you qualify for it?
 Pipp: It’s an application process. They just have to verify you are truly a legitimate 501(c)3. Doesn’t matter what you are promoting or what you’re about. We actually offer that service to nonprofits where we will do the application process for them. We don’t charge for that. We are pretty successful. We haven’t had anything not approved so far. Along with that application process, you have to have a campaign that is ready to go. Google sees there is a campaign in place that you are ready to turn on the minute they say yes.
 John: An AdWords campaign.
 Pipp: Yes, an AdWords campaign
 Hugh: You can register for that for free. If you do it on your own, you pay per click. Russell, they just slipped something in there. Did you hear what I hear? He said they do it for free.
 Pipp: Maybe we shouldn’t have said that, John. What do you think?
 John: It’s a little too late now, Pipp. You can’t put that one back in the bag.
 Pipp: I will say this. We don’t manage campaigns for free. I found a lot of people- The application process can be confusing to them. You can’t even begin until you get approved. We have at least been able to figure that out and are willing to do that for anybody. They can manage their own campaigns. When you get into the nitty-gritty of it, as you found, Hugh, you need somebody to help you because it would be difficult for you on your own to find 24,000 keywords.
 Hugh: Oh my word. And to put them in the right ads in the right places to direct them to the right page to do what we call conversions.
 Pipp: You have to have landing pages and ad groups and campaigns and this stuff that needs to be done to optimize it. One of the reasons you have 24,000 keywords is you want to utilize all that money and are limited to $2 a click. You have to find a keyword that might only get five searches a month, but you want to make sure you are found when those five people are searching.
 Hugh: It’s the misspelling of the words, too. People who spell leader wrong just as a typo. Laeder. John, you were going to say something?
 John: I just said the maximum is $2. It’s not that they are all $2.
 Hugh: I adjust them down, and sometimes I get the mileage. There is also a quality score. I have some that are 7’s and 8’s, which I understand is pretty hard to do. They rate you on the quality of the word as to where you are driving it. There are some sophisticated tools out there to watch what you’re doing. It’s just amazing. Where do people contact you to let you help them do that and start that conversation?
 Pipp: They can call me. Our phone number is 813-321-3390. That is our main line here in Tampa. They can go to our website. On the website you can get contact information. The phone number is there of course, and there is an email link to send us an email if you want. They can reach me via email if they like at pipp@si-5.com.
 Hugh: Si-5.com is the website. That is a very generous offer. It’s not a lot of work. I want to talk about the juxtaposition of SEO and the ads. Those two need to have some synergy. John, you were talking about that if you did the SEO, it would get you more mileage for less money with the AdWords. I’m surprised they didn’t cancel me. I had the grant. It had five or six campaigns going. Now I have several thousand campaigns or ad groups going. Four campaigns. But I found that no matter what I tried, I could not spend more than $300 a month. That is the maximum you spend a day, $332 or $333. I spend that every day now. But I couldn’t figure that out. So I had to get somebody to help me. That is a for-hire thing you can do. I got frustrated because I shouldn’t have been doing this in the first place. I do leadership and culture and strategy really well. I suck at that. Suck is halfway to success. Talk about why you need this if you do SEO.
 Pipp: It’s the difference between paid search and organic search. Whenever you do a Google search, you bring up a search result page. At the very top, the first three or four listings are going to be the paid ads. The next ten listings below that are what they call the organic or non-paid listings. Each of these listings, paid or unpaid, are the listings that Google believes are the most relevant to the search you have done.
 John: They are catering to their own customer. I as a Google searcher am a Google customer. They want to try to provide me the most relevant and best options possible so I am happy.
 Pipp: You are happy and continue to use Google.
 John: That’s right.
 Pipp: Why don’t you go ahead and talk about the percentages of where the clicks go, John?
 John: That is important. if I launch a campaign today, I can bid on an AdWord today, and I can get that AdWord and I can be found for that word today. Organic is a little bit different. That takes a little bit more time, authority, optimization. Google is not going to make that change quickly because again they want to make sure you actually do have good information to provide their customer when they search for a given keyword. That is why it takes time to build that authority for the organic search. What is very interesting is that the difference between the paid search and the organic search is there is about five times more volume for the organic search. That is a big deal. If you are buying AdWords and you are getting traffic, that is great because I can do it today. That is a way to get to the organic search. You can start to get traffic today but realize that over time you will have a lot more to choose from if you are getting the organic search. It just takes time.
 Hugh: Does Google learn, or does the effectiveness grow over time? I have listened to people talk about how they do Facebook ads. Over the weeks and months, the Facebook ads build a knowledge base and becomes more effective over time. That may or may not be the accurate description, but is there something like that with AdWords?
 John: The parallel would be- I guess it would be the authority that you gain by having good information and making it available so Google can read it, understand it. Your page is optimized. The information you are providing is relevant. Google will look at all of that. If I have a new page and someone finds me but my information is not very relevant, Google’s customer, the searcher, will leave. Google doesn’t like that.
 Pipp: I understand your question also relates to Facebook. Facebook has what they call a pixel. They want you to put that pixel on your website. Facebook learns. Facebook’s algorithm learns who clicks on your ads and who your ideal customer is, and they get smarter and smarter at putting your ad in front of people that fit a profile that is more likely to click.
 AdWords, I don’t believe does that. To be honest with you, my business partner is more knowledgeable than I am on the running of the AdWords campaigns.
 John: You should clarify that as your other business partner.
 Pipp: Yes, sorry. My other business partner, who is on vacation with her children right now and her husband. But I don’t believe that the AdWords does that. It’s pretty much up to us as the buyer of AdWords to optimize the campaigns and figure out what is working best.
 Hugh: My colleague Russell is very active on LinkedIn. I have heard you guys other times talk about authority. Russ does a lot of good stuff on LinkedIn. He has articles, and his description of who he is is very valuable. How does that play into the picture with the Google SEO and the AdWords and the whole package?
 Pipp: Having an optimized profile on LinkedIn, as well as other social media properties, is all important. Every one of those provides a description of you and your business, a link back to your website from a site that Google sees as high authority. When you can get a link back from a high authority site, some of that authority transfers back, and it helps you build the authority of your website. Those are all part of the mix. They don’t really have much of an effect on your AdWords, but from an SEO standpoint, those are very important elements.
 Hugh: Russ, did that bring up any questions or comments on your side?
 Russell: Keywords are important. This program for grants is something I have seen because who couldn’t use $10,000. When I read the language, there is a certain amount of traffic you have to drive. If you don’t do that, they pass it on to people who can use it. The idea of them looking at keeping their own credibility high by giving their users what they need makes perfect sense. Unless somebody has a lot of expertise in that, and I don’t think you have that on your typical nonprofit staff, is it’s a wonderful opportunity, but you have to be able to drive the traffic to keep it going.
 Pipp: That is correct. Google AdWords is much more complicated to optimize, and it takes some time to optimize a campaign. Usually when you are working with AdWords, you will figure the first three or four months is what you will put in to tweak and figure it out. We are managing a campaign for a chiropractor client. It’s not a big campaign or a huge amount of money, but we took it over because the people who were handling it for them were unhappy with the results they were getting. We have taken it over. We have had it about two months, and it will be another month or two before we get it fine-tuned. I was in my office just now building landing pages because they were sending all this paid traffic to their homepage. In their particular case, if you were looking for a chiropractic solution for back pain, the homepage mentions it, but it doesn’t really talk about it in depth. So it’s less likely to create a conversion or getting a phone call for an appointment than if they were landing on a page that spoke to that particular problem directly. I am in the process of building them landing pages that will help their conversion, and the better conversion you get helps your quality score. Hugh is obviously doing that well if he has some 7’s and 8’s in quality scores.
 Hugh: I’m not getting the conversions I want, but it has gone up dramatically in the past two months. I am starting to fine-tune it. I had some AdWords that weren’t relevant, which were bringing in some people who weren’t the right people. I wanted to come back to that piece. We want to bring the people that can find words, and we can trick them into coming, but if it’s not what they want, they will leave within a second or two. So we just wasted the money.
 Pipp: Then Google dings you and realizes that ad is not working. Regardless of what you are bidding, they drop you down in position. With AdWords, even if there are three or four ads at the top of the page, even if they are all bidding the same thing, if they all have the same quality score, Google rotates those around. As time goes by and one or two gain more traction because they have a higher quality score—they are getting a better click rate, even though it’s the same price or a little lower price—Google will show them ahead of the other ads. They want people to have a good experience so they keep using them. Like John said, the person doing the searching is the customer that Google is trying to please.
 Hugh: That’s a really important area to understand. I’m a pretty smart guy, but it’s taken me a while to wrap my head around this. I am learning it so I can bring on somebody and have them manage it. There are lots of charities doing social media, and they don’t do themselves any favors. There are lots of charities who put up pretty websites. Propeller Head makes them something nice. They say you have all these hits. I think I shared this with you, but it’s said that hits are how idiots attract success. It really doesn’t matter who comes. Hits is every time you download an image or a page or something, so you can have a lot of hits with nothing. It’s really coming back to this what do people do, the conversions, that matters.
 Let’s go into some of the things you know people need to learn. When you put up a webpage or site, Google looks at everything. How does this organic SEO work?
 John: That’s where it starts. The very first thing is that Google is a computer. It needs to make sense to Google. You can’t infer things. It has to be written and optimized such that Google can read it and understand exactly what you do, what you’re promoting, what information you’re providing. We want to make sure you have optimized it so Google can understand it. Then you want to start to look for ways to continue to build that authority. We mentioned having links back from high authority sites so Google realizes, “Oh, okay. This site thinks that they are providing the right information about this given subject.” But the big thing is it does start on the page. We call it on-page SEO. It needs to have the right information in the right format and make sense for Google.
 Hugh: Go back to this authority site thing. Talk a little bit more about that.
 Pipp: The sites that you see in organic search on the results page—those are the sites that Google feels are the most relevant, which to them means they feel they have the highest authority on that subject. Authority is predominantly gained in a number of ways, but one of the biggest is links from other sites. It might be social media sites you have. It might be other people linking to your information. Maybe you wrote an article or a blog post, and other people pick up that blog post and repost it on their Facebook page or their own blog. Through that, there is a link back to your site from another site that has relevant information. It takes time. That is why John was talking about how SEO takes time. You can buy a paid ad and be at the top of the search for a given keyword tomorrow. But with SEO, it takes time to build that authority, and it takes time for Google to trust your site. A brand new site comes up, and no matter how good your information is, it can take months for those links to build and for Google to gain the confidence and trust that you are the right one to show for search results for that given keyword.
 Hugh: How do these two work together, the organic SEO and the AdWords? Is there a negative dynamic we can create that cancels each other out?
 Pipp: No, there is nothing negative about it. The numbers are interesting. Paid search gets about 18-20% of clicks on a page. Organic gets the rest.
 Hugh: Whoa. 18% is paid search?
 Pipp: 18-20. It can be different in different niches, but that is the average. Of all the ads out there, somebody searches for a new plumber. They say “My toilet is leaking and I need a plumber,” so they search for that. There will be ads at the top of the page. Those ads will get 18 out of 100 clicks. The organic listings will get the rest with the top three getting the lion’s share. That is what SEO is. Our job is to build that authority and get an organization’s site ranked into those top three to five positions. The reason I say three to five is in many niches, there are directory-type sites that will get into that top five, and they are not direct links. Customers will avoid those and go directly to a business because they want a solution to their problem.
 Hugh: Yeah. People are looking for things. You can go to Analytics and other tools like that to figure out what people are putting in, can’t you?
 Pipp: Analytics will tell you what someone typed in in order to find you. That is certainly a great tool. Anyone who has a website should sign up and get Google Analytics. It’s a free service from Google. They offer great tutorials on learning how to digest the data.
 Hugh: That would be a good way to research what people are looking for, is that true?
 Pipp: It would be, except you don’t really have access. Google has a Keyword tool built into AdWords where you can type in a keyword and they will give you a range of how much search there is for those. Or they might come back and show no search even if there is some. It may be low, but there is some. I have a friend who often says, “It’s great how much money I’ve made from search terms that Google shows there is no search for.” Anyway. But there are new searches all the time. Google says a third of the searches they see every month are searches done in a particular manner that they have never seen before. That is constantly changing.
 Hugh: Give me that statistic again.
 Pipp: A third of all the searches that Google sees every month are done a little differently than they have ever seen before.
 Hugh: I thought that’s what you said. That’s remarkable.
 Pipp: It is. I know.
 John: We can’t use another term like that. I don’t think Hugh can stand it. We can’t bring him a new statistic that is blowing his mind.
 Hugh: That’s amazing.
 Russell: At this rate, his hair will start turning gray.
 John: It will light on fire.
 Russell: You have to ease up on him.
 Hugh: At least I got hair. Ha!
 Russell: This is the secret to not having any gray. You cut it all off.
 Hugh: Last week, we had an interview with Les Brown, and Les talks about using the mascara on his gray. He said his gray hair doesn’t last very long. He keeps looking fresh with that look.
 Guys, this is fascinating stuff. People put up websites, and they wonder why nobody comes. They really do stupid things on social media. It’s really social. How do people learn about this? I think we should create an academy and have a membership for people who are in charitable work to learn how to do these things. Like Russ said, they have a small staff and not a lot of money. If they started getting traffic and people found them and they raised the donor base- and actually if donors know what you’re doing, the impact you’re having, they will continue to be donors and spread the word. There is no negative aspect to tooting your horn and letting people know about it. Come back to some of my crazy ideas here.
 Pipp: That’s right. What you and I have talked about before is how do you create more of a presence in social media? You have the main social media sites, like Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, maybe Pinterest, Google+. How do you put out information on a regular basis? There are a couple of tools that make it easier for you to do that. One is Buffer. Buffer has the ability to post and link articles to the various social media accounts you have. There is another company called Quuu. They are an aggregator of online articles. You will probably find articles in almost any niche or subject you can think of. You can get an account for free for both of these. On the free account, you are limited to how many posts you can do and how many social media accounts you can link to, but you can link Buffer with Quuu and pick like four or five different subjects and link two articles a day to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Every single day. Those are what they call curated content. Somebody else wrote it, it’s in your niche, and you post it as interesting information for people who are interested in your niche and what you do. But I also recommend to people they need to be doing some original content of their own. If you have these other services, you don’t have to write something every day or two to three times a week. You can do something original a couple times a month, but there is still a flow of information coming out. That creates engagement. You will build Twitter Followers, Facebook likes, and additional connections on LinkedIn all from having information that flows.
 John: You asked one other question, Hugh. Pipp and I spend a lot of time figuring this out. This is way full-time. There are some basic things that can be done to give your site more visibility, just some real basic things. The biggest thing Pipp said is make sure that you have a LinkedIn account, a Facebook business account or an account that is to your ministry or 501(c)3, a Twitter account, and an Instagram account, and have those connected to your website. That will sure help. You want to make sure that you have accurate information on all those places. You don’t want to confuse Google because that’s not good. You want to make sure information is accurate across platforms. Then when you want to get really serious on one of these areas, it’s probably a good idea to hire somebody who spends a lot of time trying to figure it out. It changes all the time. We use the phrase that Google has all the gold and they make all the rules. We just have to live with those.
 Hugh: The golden rule.
 John: To have an academy would be a great thing. It wouldn’t be a free academy, and it wouldn’t be part-time.
 Hugh: No. I was throwing out an idea. If anybody is listening and interested, we could play with it.
 John: It’s a great idea.
 Hugh: We could do the same thing with a group of people and make it a more level playing field and impact more people and have greater results. Talk about how Google changes things. They are sneaky about it. A logarithm, is that what it is?
 Pipp: Their algorithm, yeah. They have made a lot of changes just in the past couple of years. They have two search algorithms. One is for desktop search, and one is for mobile search. They are separate. They announced about a year and a half ago, or maybe two years ago, that they were going to put more priority on mobile search algorithm, meaning that if you were ranking on page one but your site wasn’t mobile-friendly, because it wasn’t, the mobile-friendly aspect was going to become much more important to the mobile-search algorithm, and you could lose ranking on a mobile search even if you are ranked highly on a desktop search. That was a couple years ago. Then a few months back, they announced that the mobile search algorithm in 2018 was going to be the predominant factor to ranking in the search engines period.
 John: And the reason for that?
 Pipp: Well more than half of all search is mobile. That is mostly Smartphones, but that also includes tablets.
 Hugh: Amazing. Russ, you have been taking this in. I think we should come up with a hard question for these guys. Let’s stump our guests.
 Russell: How do you stop these guys from making all of these changes?
 John: No, it’s a great question. But it goes back to that you have to look at it from their standpoint. They are trying to provide the best product for you and I, the guy who is searching. They are going to work really hard to get into our brains and to put that into their brain to give us the searcher the best result. What we have to be doing as SEO experts is understanding Google and where they are going and then making sure that our clients are providing relevant information for those search terms. It has to be. Otherwise, we are going to mistakenly send somebody to a client’s site, and the Google customer is not going to be happy, which is going to drop them in ranking.
 Russell: This is how they made Yahoo and other people disappear in the first place.
 John: They worked really hard at it to provide the best quality product for their client.
 Pipp: And they make changes all the time. They make changes to their algorithm all the time. The nice part of it is we are actually members of a very large SEO mastermind group that is worldwide in scope. Some of our peers are really smart, and they- actually before Google makes changes, they file patents. They get copies of the new patents that are filed and waiting to be approved and read it. We generally have a pretty good idea of where things are headed. Google does their best to obfuscate that, but they have to have the information in there so the guys in the patent office can say okay. We have some smart colleagues that read that stuff, figure that out, and give us a good idea of where Google is going six months or a year from now.
 Hugh: Part of this change is necessary. People used to pack in the keywords. Then people used to go out and do these fictitious sites with all these backlinks. There were thousands of them, and Google got smart to that.
 Pipp: No matter what the rules that Google comes up with, there will always be somebody who figures out a way around it. Once they figure that out, Google will figure out that they did that, and they will change the rules again. But there are some basic things. We ourselves in our company follow industry-best practice. We don’t do any blackhat. In the SEO world, blackhat is things you know you shouldn’t do, but you do them anyway hoping for a good result and hoping not to get caught. That was standard practice, even five years ago. But the things that a lot of people did and we were doing five years ago, if we did them today, they would get us penalized.
 Still one of the biggest things I see for people who try to do SEO on their own is they over-optimize their websites in terms of keywords. Let’s say they have 600 words of content on their homepage. They will put a keyword in there like 40 times. Google needs it there once or twice and they know what you’re about. When you start putting it in 20-40 times, you get over-optimized. You may see yourself move up in the ranking. You may even get to the bottom or middle of page two, but you won’t get further.
 Hugh: Wow.
 Pipp: it’s almost like they give you hope. I’m movin’ up, I’m movin’ up, I’m movin’ up, and boom, you hit the ceiling. You’re on page two where nobody can find you.
 Hugh: When you get penalized, do you stay there, or is there any way to get out of that?
 Pipp: You can change it. I have had a client this last year who after I had done some SEO work and were moving up nicely, he went in on his own and decided to rewrite one of the pages he wanted to rank for, and he put the keyword in there like 42 times. Then we started dropping back. I was trying to figure out why, and he happened to mention to me that he went in and changed that page. I went in and copied all the information and highlighted all the places he had done that, saying, “This needs to get fixed.” I fixed it. And we shot right back up to page one. It took a little while. When I say “shot right up,” that might have taken two or three months, but that is something that still a lot of people do. I find particularly those who try to do SEO on their own, they are looking at old information and don’t really have the resources to stay abreast of what is working today and what current best practices are.
 Hugh: Russ, did you have more to that question?
 Russell: It gets back to that notion of working within your wheelhouse and not trying to do things that you’re not good at. I definitely don’t know a lot about SEO, but I do write. What I have started doing is looking at the principles of copywriting and studying that because that is what I can do on my own. I definitely need to hire someone- I have a guy working on my website who knows a lot more of this stuff than I do. He is reoptimizing the site, but in order to help myself, I have started looking at copywriting. I put together a series on donors that talks about the information you have to have. You have to know your audience in order to get some traction. That is important. What your content contains is where the keywords are probably going to be found.
 Hugh: Absolutely. Good points. We are on the downside of our interview. We try to keep these under an hour because that’s a lot of time and people want to get some good content. Think about some stuff we haven’t talked about, guys. What is a thought or challenge or tip you want to leave with people?
 Let’s go back to the electronic media. If all of this stuff, Russ and I work with organizations to build out their strategy. We are trying to hunt and peck in the dark rather than having a synergistic plan. I wouldn’t dare get in front of an orchestra or a choir and try to direct without having a piece of music because people are all over the place. We have to have some glue to hold us together, and then people can become engaged. With that, we are very clear on what it is we offer, who it is we offer it to, the value of our service, and the impact. That gives you guys something to work around and to use your magic to bring that constituency to the site and actually do something. If I have heard you correctly, part of it is identifying the trends, finding what it is people are looking for, but also attracting the right people. On the other side, you slipped right by this, you are creating a landing page, and the landing page has to convert. It has something interesting so people don’t leave in .2 seconds, so they engage with you and learn something and want to be part of your tribe, donate, or be a part of your volunteer pool. There is a whole synergy in this thing.
 Let me throw it to you. Like the last time we talked, my brain is firing on many cylinders that I’m not doing right. I can’t handle much more of this, but I have a list of things to do. You will be getting a call from me about my new site. Let me throw it to John and then Pipp. As a departing thought and comment, sum up the things you wish people would do, and remind them of where they can go to find out. You have a survey or something on the site, so talk about that, too.
 John: We have a form that they can go through. What is the name of that form, Pipp?
 Pipp: Strategy form.
 John: We have a strategy form they can go through on the site. It leads them to give us information so we can get back to them with some knowledge of what they are trying to do.
 I am going to step back and go back to what Russell said. Stand in your wheelhouse. Companies that come to us, we are going to have to make the assumption that they are good at what they do. Pipp and I have a really wide range of backgrounds. Pipp has owned several businesses; I have owned several businesses. Sometimes we get more involved than we should in the whole process. But what we look to do is be the SEO expert. What we look for is our clients to bring to us “This is what I do, this is who searches for us, and this is how they search for us. Put me on page one for these three key search terms.” That is what we do. We go after those search terms. Sometimes we get deeper into the weeds than that. That is what we primarily do.
 Pipp: Once they have filled out our strategy form, we then produce an eight-minute video analysis where we look at their website, we look at the competition, the strength of the competition, and then tell them the opportunity that is there. If you rank for this, this is how many searches there are, this is a conservative estimate you could expect as far as visitors, and based upon a conservative conversion rate, how much that traffic would be worth to you. We like to show them how big the opportunity they are missing out on is.
 The other thing I was going to say in closing is something you and I have talked about before, Hugh. We touched a little bit on conversions, and we haven’t talked about video on this call. Video can be a good way to help conversions on your site, on your landing pages. If you can do a short video that deals with your business, that topic of the landing page, usually less than two minutes on your page can be a tremendous help. People like to know who they are potentially going to get involved with. You do a video that is engaging, you look at the person who is watching, you talk to them directly. You want to talk to that single person. You can do that. As I told you once before, I have an attorney client that we had ranked, and he was getting clicks to this website but not getting the conversion. We put a short video on his site, and overnight, that video tripled or quadrupled his phone calls in a week for his business. It was unbelievable how much of a difference it made.
 Hugh: You guys aren’t a one-trick pony. You have a whole lot of different programs and knowledge base and wisdom. That is quite remarkable.
 Pipp: I think that’s one of our strengths. We have gray hair, too. At least I do. I’m not sure John does. We have done a lot of things. We generally have the ability to understand what they’re doing fairly quickly and obviously work within our expertise, which is SEO and digital media. Oftentimes, we can make suggestions to other things you could be doing that could be helpful.
 Hugh: Thank you for jumping in at the last minute and being so gracious to share all of this information (we had a cancellation tonight). You do a lot of upfront service to people. That is a gift. Russell, thank you for being here again and asking really good questions. Russell has made some notes of the profound statements that came out of your mouth.
 Russell: There is one thing I’d like to sneak in before we leave. The service these guys provide is superior, premium. The thing I like about what I see in their website is when they go in there, they define some parameters. If your business or organization is at a certain point, we can help you. If you’re not at that place, then we don’t want to offer you something that will not benefit you. That is integrity on steroids, and I love it.
 Hugh: Russ listens and observes and comes up with some profound statements. John Zentmeyer and Pipp Patten, thank you for sharing your wisdom with our audience tonight.
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/837d8dac-b329-11eb-9f0f-eb3b251753ed/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Learn About How to Get $10K in Free Adwords</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Increase Your Reach and Donations: Learn About How to Get $10K in Free Adwords [caption id="attachment_1523" align="alignleft" width="150"] Pip Patton[/caption]
 Pip Patton and John Zentmeyer will share secrets about how to get $10K in free Google AdWords monthly and how to drive more traffic to your website for more engagement and more publicity. Their company,  Search Intelligence LLC, based in Tampa Florida, is a digital marketing agency.
 'We believe that marketing in today's digital age should not be confusing to utilize and benefit from.'
 We help you accomplish this by offering digital marketing services that are easy to understand and implement. Our services start with SEO and include optimized website design, social media management, video marketing and traffic analysis so you can make informed decisions about your marketing strategy.
 We also work with non-profits by helping them apply for and obtain a Google Grant. A Google Grant is a grant of $10,000 in AdWords advertising each month for your non-profit. You can use the grant to promote your non-profit and gain more exposure online; increase awareness, recruit volunteers, promote special events, etc.
 Notes from the Interview
    Why do we care if people come to our websites?
 Need for visibility brings more of people you want to see, online is where people are looking.
 Not ranking on Google is like being 100 miles off the highway with no lights turned on. No one can find you!
 You can’t get the word out on your work if no one can find you.
 How do you figure out who to attract to your website?  
 Extensive interview with client, create keywords and Adwords to drive traffic, find out what people are searching for through online research, very few people aware of what prospects are searching for and tax status is not a factor.
 Online is where more search for info takes place!
 1. What is a Google Grant and How Do I Apply?
 Google’s way to give back to the community; $10,000 month available to 501(c)3; keyword bids restricted to $2 or less; must find enough keywords to use all of the funds.
 Qualifications - verify status as charity; apply online; campaign (Adwords) must be ready to go when launching 
 2. What is SEO and why do I need it for my charity or church? 
 Paid v. Organic Search priority given to paid; Ranking based on most relevant to search according to Google who cater to their own customers; can use best keywords when they are paid for; Google rates the information you provide, you have to build authority; organic search provides 5 times amount of results as paid search; you have to build credibility through your results; good information adds to your authority!
 Facebook uses pixels attached to your website to build a â€œsmart dat profile.â€ Google does not do this for you.
 LinkedIn relation to Google - optimized profiles are critical to building authority, it helps develop authority
 Organic Reach - Basics
 Clarity around what you do needs to be clear to Google tech; links back to high authority sites on subject helps (on page SEO) must be relevant and valuable; Google grades authority based on links from other sites, social media, or blog posts that are shared or other shared information. This all takes time using SEO.
 Only 18% to 20% of traffic comes from paid search. The rest is organic! The top 3 get the lionâ€™s share!
 Analytics tell you what people type in to find you. Free tutorials available from Google.
 One-third of searches on monthly basis are different from anything theyâ€™ve ever seen before!
 QUUU.com
 Buffer and QUUU work together
 How do people learn how to do SEO in a way that helps them? 
 Creating a presence on the main social media sites use tools like Buffer (link posts to other sites); Quuu - (Aggregator of articles and information for curation); make sure you include some original content that increases engagement
 Basic Visibility Enhancers - get more than one account (the Big 5; Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Google+, and Instagram); have accurate info on all sites; hire Â someone who has expertise because everything changes frequently
 Algorithms for mobile and desktop differ, mobile friendly search is more important all the time; by 2018 it will dominate rankings; far more searches on mobile than desktop!
 Closing Thoughts - (John)Â Go through strategy form to provide the types of information they need to provide good service; stay in your wheelhouse and focus on what you know, let your SEO experts to help you get where you need to be; search terms most relevant to you
 Closing thoughts - (Pipp) - Take time to analyze your site and other information; video is a great tool for conversion, less than 2 minutes is best when it is engaging, speak like you are having a conversation with a single person; video drives up conversion considerably.
 Contact Information
 Search Intelligence, LLC 1520 W Cleveland St
 Tampa, FL 33606
 (813) 321-3390
 http://www.si-5.com
  
 The Interview Transcript
 NPC Interview with Pipp Patton &amp; John Zentmeyer
 Hugh Ballou: Welcome, everyone. We are talking nonprofit language. Our guests tonight are two distinguished-looking gentlemen, Pipp Patton and John Zentmeyer. They are in Florida on the Gulf Coast and in central Florida. They have a very defined expertise. I met Pipp on a couple trips in Orlando doing some interaction with CEOs. You must be a CEO if you are in that group. This company you have, tell me what the name of it is, what inspired you to launch this company, and a little bit about your history and expertise that you bring to this very specialized space.
 Pipp Patton: Thank you for having us on. My background: Over 20 years ago, I was actually in the yellow pages business. I used to work with small businesses, helping them promote themselves and growing through the vehicle of yellow pages back when the yellow page directory was the search engine of choice. Then that changed about 10 years ago. At that time, I was transitioning out of yellow pages. I enjoyed working with business owners, and the technology and the digital arena was of great interest to me. I studied it and tried to learn it. I have been now working about seven years or so in that arena with an agency model, where I help businesses be found in Google search primarily.
 Hugh: I used to buy yellow page ads when I had a camera shop. It was the go-to place to find out who to hire and who to solve your problems. That was a unique spot. You transitioned from that space? Was that a direct transition to the digital marketing that you do?
 Pipp: Yeah, pretty much. At that particular time, I left yellow pages because the company I worked for got bought out by someone else, and they didn’t treat their new acquisition people real well. So it was a good opportunity for me to leave there. At that time, my mom needed some attention and care, so I decided to stay home and take care of her. Shortly thereafter, I had been studying digital marketing and had a couple of people that I met that really needed help in that arena. I helped them, and the business evolved from there.
 Hugh: Awesome. To fall into that. John, you are part of this team. Talk about that. What brought you to this place?
 John Zentmeyer: Directly, Pipp brought me to the place. Pipp and I have done business together off and on, many different ventures, always been good buddies, and always enjoyed bouncing business ideas off each other for over 30 years now. Last year, I was making a transition, and I have owned several businesses. At the time, I was working with a group that I thought I would be at for the rest of my career, but that doesn’t always happen. But Pipp and I had always talked a lot about what he was doing and what was happening in the SEO world. All my career, I have looked for ways to bring large ROIs to companies or to my clients. SEO is a great way to do that. I have always been in the technology world, mostly automation, but this has been a lot of fun, and we have enjoyed working closer together.
 Hugh: Russell Dennis has been stalking you, so Russell, what did you find out about them online?
 Russell Dennis: John said wonderful things about Pipp online. It’s a glowing testimony. There are a number of things. There is this track record of years where you have been getting premium results. Coming from the yellow page world, I saw yellow page ads in my sophomore year of college. I made a truckload of money that summer. This was back in 1995 of course.
 Pipp: That was a good time to be in yellow pages.
 John: It probably wouldn’t work as well this summer.
 Russell: Probably not. I would probably go hungry over the summer. You see things like Yelp, but everything is a known directory. The only real power in that stuff is in the testimonials and getting credibility.
 Hugh: Awesome. That is back when a truckload really meant something. A truckload of money was worth something.
 Russell: That was before the exchange rates went to pot.
 Hugh: Oh gosh, yeah. Guys, we sent out an email today and one just a few minutes ago to tell people they could get $10,000 of free AdWords. We are going to talk about that. These are people who are in what we call social benefit work. They are running a membership organization. It has a tax-exempt status. They are running a church or synagogue, a community foundation, a cause-based charity. There are lots of people who are in education or government organizations, like down the road from me, we have an agency on aging, my peer group. We have a lot of people doing really good work. Why should we care that people come to our website? We want to direct traffic, but let’s talk about why people come. Who do we want to attract? Let’s take it sequentially. Why do we care, and then who do we want to bring to our website?
 Pipp: Whether it’s a nonprofit or a regular for-profit business, you need more customers, more exposure, more people to know who you are and what you do. Whether they have an interest in perhaps volunteering or donating or being involved in special events that you have, taking advantage of what you may teach, all of those things are there, so having a higher profile online will bring more of those eyeballs and ears to you. If people want information about anything, they are online.
 John: Take it one step further. Having a website online and not being ranked in Google anywhere is like having your nonprofit or for-profit business ministry, whatever you’re doing, out in the middle of a very dark desert with no lights. So you cannot be found. If you are providing a service for somebody in a nonprofit arena, then the idea is you want people who are looking for that service to be able to find you. That is the biggest reason that you want to expose yourself on that side. Doesn’t matter what you’re doing. If you’re doing for-profit, you want people to be able to find you.
 Hugh: There are lots of really good organizations doing really fine work that nobody is aware of. It would occur to me that PR is one good reason. I know people will support the cause they believe in. If they can go to somebody’s website and see the impact of the work of the charity—who are we serving, what problem are we solving—how do we figure out which people to attract to the website? That matters a lot, doesn’t it?
 Pipp: It definitely does. In our world, what John and I do, generally when we work with an organization, they are telling us what people are searching for to find them, or at least the basic concept. We will build campaigns around that. If we are doing SEO, then we are going to work to make their site visible for certain keywords, as an example. In the AdWords arena, it’s the same thing. You are bidding on keywords to become visible in a search. If somebody is new to an area and is looking for a specific type of denomination, they may go online to see what’s around them. If you’re not visible, you just missed out on a new member perhaps.
 Hugh: There are a lot of choices in life today, aren’t there?
 Pipp: There sure are. Most businesses, or organizations if you will, today I find aren’t really aware of how many searches there actually are online for their service or product. It’s the single largest pool that exists of prospective new customers, clients. Those are interchangeable words, even in the nonprofit world. It equates to the same thing. If you have a business or an organization, and you are working in a certain arena, there is more search for that information about that online than there is anywhere else.
 Hugh: Awesome.
 John: Hugh, you can relate to this. What happened when you got a yellow page ad?
 Hugh: People would call me up and say, “I see you have this.”
 John: They found you.
 Hugh: That was the go-to place. We actually went to the yellow pages last week to look for some resources for moving.
 We put out a line that people get $10,000 in AdWords. Talk about that program. I have one of these grants, and I don’t know how in the world I got it. Somebody helped me get it. I am still learning how to work it, but I am spending $10,000 a month. Talk about that program. How do people acquire that grant?
 Pipp: It’s a terrific program by Google. This is their way of giving back to the community at large here in the United States .it may be available overseas, too; I’m not sure of that. It’s a grant that they offer to any 501(c)3 for $10,000 a month to use any way the organization sees fit. The determination of the success of any advertising campaign is totally up to you. Google is providing that. The only restriction they put on it is that you can’t bid on a keyword that is more than $2. Now depending on the area you live in, larger areas, certain keywords that might fit your organization might be highly competitive, and they would be well in excess of $2. But just as you found, Hugh, if you work with somebody who understands how to dig out the keywords that still fit the proper niche that you are going after, you can find enough keywords to bid on to utilize those dollars.
 Hugh: I think I have 24,000 keywords in all of the things that are related to us, and we have an average position of 2.5 on a search.
 Pipp: That is terrific. That is very good. And you are working on a national level, correct?
 Hugh: I’m working with anybody who speaks English. We got Philippines, Australia, New Zealand.
 Pipp: There are many organizations who would be able to take the same approach. If it was a local church or synagogue, an organization like that, they might be more defined by a geographic area. But still, the exposure that they can gain from that is just fabulous, and it is a really terrific program that Google has put out there and made available to all the 501(c)3s.
 Hugh: How do you get it? How do you qualify for it?
 Pipp: It’s an application process. They just have to verify you are truly a legitimate 501(c)3. Doesn’t matter what you are promoting or what you’re about. We actually offer that service to nonprofits where we will do the application process for them. We don’t charge for that. We are pretty successful. We haven’t had anything not approved so far. Along with that application process, you have to have a campaign that is ready to go. Google sees there is a campaign in place that you are ready to turn on the minute they say yes.
 John: An AdWords campaign.
 Pipp: Yes, an AdWords campaign
 Hugh: You can register for that for free. If you do it on your own, you pay per click. Russell, they just slipped something in there. Did you hear what I hear? He said they do it for free.
 Pipp: Maybe we shouldn’t have said that, John. What do you think?
 John: It’s a little too late now, Pipp. You can’t put that one back in the bag.
 Pipp: I will say this. We don’t manage campaigns for free. I found a lot of people- The application process can be confusing to them. You can’t even begin until you get approved. We have at least been able to figure that out and are willing to do that for anybody. They can manage their own campaigns. When you get into the nitty-gritty of it, as you found, Hugh, you need somebody to help you because it would be difficult for you on your own to find 24,000 keywords.
 Hugh: Oh my word. And to put them in the right ads in the right places to direct them to the right page to do what we call conversions.
 Pipp: You have to have landing pages and ad groups and campaigns and this stuff that needs to be done to optimize it. One of the reasons you have 24,000 keywords is you want to utilize all that money and are limited to $2 a click. You have to find a keyword that might only get five searches a month, but you want to make sure you are found when those five people are searching.
 Hugh: It’s the misspelling of the words, too. People who spell leader wrong just as a typo. Laeder. John, you were going to say something?
 John: I just said the maximum is $2. It’s not that they are all $2.
 Hugh: I adjust them down, and sometimes I get the mileage. There is also a quality score. I have some that are 7’s and 8’s, which I understand is pretty hard to do. They rate you on the quality of the word as to where you are driving it. There are some sophisticated tools out there to watch what you’re doing. It’s just amazing. Where do people contact you to let you help them do that and start that conversation?
 Pipp: They can call me. Our phone number is 813-321-3390. That is our main line here in Tampa. They can go to our website. On the website you can get contact information. The phone number is there of course, and there is an email link to send us an email if you want. They can reach me via email if they like at pipp@si-5.com.
 Hugh: Si-5.com is the website. That is a very generous offer. It’s not a lot of work. I want to talk about the juxtaposition of SEO and the ads. Those two need to have some synergy. John, you were talking about that if you did the SEO, it would get you more mileage for less money with the AdWords. I’m surprised they didn’t cancel me. I had the grant. It had five or six campaigns going. Now I have several thousand campaigns or ad groups going. Four campaigns. But I found that no matter what I tried, I could not spend more than $300 a month. That is the maximum you spend a day, $332 or $333. I spend that every day now. But I couldn’t figure that out. So I had to get somebody to help me. That is a for-hire thing you can do. I got frustrated because I shouldn’t have been doing this in the first place. I do leadership and culture and strategy really well. I suck at that. Suck is halfway to success. Talk about why you need this if you do SEO.
 Pipp: It’s the difference between paid search and organic search. Whenever you do a Google search, you bring up a search result page. At the very top, the first three or four listings are going to be the paid ads. The next ten listings below that are what they call the organic or non-paid listings. Each of these listings, paid or unpaid, are the listings that Google believes are the most relevant to the search you have done.
 John: They are catering to their own customer. I as a Google searcher am a Google customer. They want to try to provide me the most relevant and best options possible so I am happy.
 Pipp: You are happy and continue to use Google.
 John: That’s right.
 Pipp: Why don’t you go ahead and talk about the percentages of where the clicks go, John?
 John: That is important. if I launch a campaign today, I can bid on an AdWord today, and I can get that AdWord and I can be found for that word today. Organic is a little bit different. That takes a little bit more time, authority, optimization. Google is not going to make that change quickly because again they want to make sure you actually do have good information to provide their customer when they search for a given keyword. That is why it takes time to build that authority for the organic search. What is very interesting is that the difference between the paid search and the organic search is there is about five times more volume for the organic search. That is a big deal. If you are buying AdWords and you are getting traffic, that is great because I can do it today. That is a way to get to the organic search. You can start to get traffic today but realize that over time you will have a lot more to choose from if you are getting the organic search. It just takes time.
 Hugh: Does Google learn, or does the effectiveness grow over time? I have listened to people talk about how they do Facebook ads. Over the weeks and months, the Facebook ads build a knowledge base and becomes more effective over time. That may or may not be the accurate description, but is there something like that with AdWords?
 John: The parallel would be- I guess it would be the authority that you gain by having good information and making it available so Google can read it, understand it. Your page is optimized. The information you are providing is relevant. Google will look at all of that. If I have a new page and someone finds me but my information is not very relevant, Google’s customer, the searcher, will leave. Google doesn’t like that.
 Pipp: I understand your question also relates to Facebook. Facebook has what they call a pixel. They want you to put that pixel on your website. Facebook learns. Facebook’s algorithm learns who clicks on your ads and who your ideal customer is, and they get smarter and smarter at putting your ad in front of people that fit a profile that is more likely to click.
 AdWords, I don’t believe does that. To be honest with you, my business partner is more knowledgeable than I am on the running of the AdWords campaigns.
 John: You should clarify that as your other business partner.
 Pipp: Yes, sorry. My other business partner, who is on vacation with her children right now and her husband. But I don’t believe that the AdWords does that. It’s pretty much up to us as the buyer of AdWords to optimize the campaigns and figure out what is working best.
 Hugh: My colleague Russell is very active on LinkedIn. I have heard you guys other times talk about authority. Russ does a lot of good stuff on LinkedIn. He has articles, and his description of who he is is very valuable. How does that play into the picture with the Google SEO and the AdWords and the whole package?
 Pipp: Having an optimized profile on LinkedIn, as well as other social media properties, is all important. Every one of those provides a description of you and your business, a link back to your website from a site that Google sees as high authority. When you can get a link back from a high authority site, some of that authority transfers back, and it helps you build the authority of your website. Those are all part of the mix. They don’t really have much of an effect on your AdWords, but from an SEO standpoint, those are very important elements.
 Hugh: Russ, did that bring up any questions or comments on your side?
 Russell: Keywords are important. This program for grants is something I have seen because who couldn’t use $10,000. When I read the language, there is a certain amount of traffic you have to drive. If you don’t do that, they pass it on to people who can use it. The idea of them looking at keeping their own credibility high by giving their users what they need makes perfect sense. Unless somebody has a lot of expertise in that, and I don’t think you have that on your typical nonprofit staff, is it’s a wonderful opportunity, but you have to be able to drive the traffic to keep it going.
 Pipp: That is correct. Google AdWords is much more complicated to optimize, and it takes some time to optimize a campaign. Usually when you are working with AdWords, you will figure the first three or four months is what you will put in to tweak and figure it out. We are managing a campaign for a chiropractor client. It’s not a big campaign or a huge amount of money, but we took it over because the people who were handling it for them were unhappy with the results they were getting. We have taken it over. We have had it about two months, and it will be another month or two before we get it fine-tuned. I was in my office just now building landing pages because they were sending all this paid traffic to their homepage. In their particular case, if you were looking for a chiropractic solution for back pain, the homepage mentions it, but it doesn’t really talk about it in depth. So it’s less likely to create a conversion or getting a phone call for an appointment than if they were landing on a page that spoke to that particular problem directly. I am in the process of building them landing pages that will help their conversion, and the better conversion you get helps your quality score. Hugh is obviously doing that well if he has some 7’s and 8’s in quality scores.
 Hugh: I’m not getting the conversions I want, but it has gone up dramatically in the past two months. I am starting to fine-tune it. I had some AdWords that weren’t relevant, which were bringing in some people who weren’t the right people. I wanted to come back to that piece. We want to bring the people that can find words, and we can trick them into coming, but if it’s not what they want, they will leave within a second or two. So we just wasted the money.
 Pipp: Then Google dings you and realizes that ad is not working. Regardless of what you are bidding, they drop you down in position. With AdWords, even if there are three or four ads at the top of the page, even if they are all bidding the same thing, if they all have the same quality score, Google rotates those around. As time goes by and one or two gain more traction because they have a higher quality score—they are getting a better click rate, even though it’s the same price or a little lower price—Google will show them ahead of the other ads. They want people to have a good experience so they keep using them. Like John said, the person doing the searching is the customer that Google is trying to please.
 Hugh: That’s a really important area to understand. I’m a pretty smart guy, but it’s taken me a while to wrap my head around this. I am learning it so I can bring on somebody and have them manage it. There are lots of charities doing social media, and they don’t do themselves any favors. There are lots of charities who put up pretty websites. Propeller Head makes them something nice. They say you have all these hits. I think I shared this with you, but it’s said that hits are how idiots attract success. It really doesn’t matter who comes. Hits is every time you download an image or a page or something, so you can have a lot of hits with nothing. It’s really coming back to this what do people do, the conversions, that matters.
 Let’s go into some of the things you know people need to learn. When you put up a webpage or site, Google looks at everything. How does this organic SEO work?
 John: That’s where it starts. The very first thing is that Google is a computer. It needs to make sense to Google. You can’t infer things. It has to be written and optimized such that Google can read it and understand exactly what you do, what you’re promoting, what information you’re providing. We want to make sure you have optimized it so Google can understand it. Then you want to start to look for ways to continue to build that authority. We mentioned having links back from high authority sites so Google realizes, “Oh, okay. This site thinks that they are providing the right information about this given subject.” But the big thing is it does start on the page. We call it on-page SEO. It needs to have the right information in the right format and make sense for Google.
 Hugh: Go back to this authority site thing. Talk a little bit more about that.
 Pipp: The sites that you see in organic search on the results page—those are the sites that Google feels are the most relevant, which to them means they feel they have the highest authority on that subject. Authority is predominantly gained in a number of ways, but one of the biggest is links from other sites. It might be social media sites you have. It might be other people linking to your information. Maybe you wrote an article or a blog post, and other people pick up that blog post and repost it on their Facebook page or their own blog. Through that, there is a link back to your site from another site that has relevant information. It takes time. That is why John was talking about how SEO takes time. You can buy a paid ad and be at the top of the search for a given keyword tomorrow. But with SEO, it takes time to build that authority, and it takes time for Google to trust your site. A brand new site comes up, and no matter how good your information is, it can take months for those links to build and for Google to gain the confidence and trust that you are the right one to show for search results for that given keyword.
 Hugh: How do these two work together, the organic SEO and the AdWords? Is there a negative dynamic we can create that cancels each other out?
 Pipp: No, there is nothing negative about it. The numbers are interesting. Paid search gets about 18-20% of clicks on a page. Organic gets the rest.
 Hugh: Whoa. 18% is paid search?
 Pipp: 18-20. It can be different in different niches, but that is the average. Of all the ads out there, somebody searches for a new plumber. They say “My toilet is leaking and I need a plumber,” so they search for that. There will be ads at the top of the page. Those ads will get 18 out of 100 clicks. The organic listings will get the rest with the top three getting the lion’s share. That is what SEO is. Our job is to build that authority and get an organization’s site ranked into those top three to five positions. The reason I say three to five is in many niches, there are directory-type sites that will get into that top five, and they are not direct links. Customers will avoid those and go directly to a business because they want a solution to their problem.
 Hugh: Yeah. People are looking for things. You can go to Analytics and other tools like that to figure out what people are putting in, can’t you?
 Pipp: Analytics will tell you what someone typed in in order to find you. That is certainly a great tool. Anyone who has a website should sign up and get Google Analytics. It’s a free service from Google. They offer great tutorials on learning how to digest the data.
 Hugh: That would be a good way to research what people are looking for, is that true?
 Pipp: It would be, except you don’t really have access. Google has a Keyword tool built into AdWords where you can type in a keyword and they will give you a range of how much search there is for those. Or they might come back and show no search even if there is some. It may be low, but there is some. I have a friend who often says, “It’s great how much money I’ve made from search terms that Google shows there is no search for.” Anyway. But there are new searches all the time. Google says a third of the searches they see every month are searches done in a particular manner that they have never seen before. That is constantly changing.
 Hugh: Give me that statistic again.
 Pipp: A third of all the searches that Google sees every month are done a little differently than they have ever seen before.
 Hugh: I thought that’s what you said. That’s remarkable.
 Pipp: It is. I know.
 John: We can’t use another term like that. I don’t think Hugh can stand it. We can’t bring him a new statistic that is blowing his mind.
 Hugh: That’s amazing.
 Russell: At this rate, his hair will start turning gray.
 John: It will light on fire.
 Russell: You have to ease up on him.
 Hugh: At least I got hair. Ha!
 Russell: This is the secret to not having any gray. You cut it all off.
 Hugh: Last week, we had an interview with Les Brown, and Les talks about using the mascara on his gray. He said his gray hair doesn’t last very long. He keeps looking fresh with that look.
 Guys, this is fascinating stuff. People put up websites, and they wonder why nobody comes. They really do stupid things on social media. It’s really social. How do people learn about this? I think we should create an academy and have a membership for people who are in charitable work to learn how to do these things. Like Russ said, they have a small staff and not a lot of money. If they started getting traffic and people found them and they raised the donor base- and actually if donors know what you’re doing, the impact you’re having, they will continue to be donors and spread the word. There is no negative aspect to tooting your horn and letting people know about it. Come back to some of my crazy ideas here.
 Pipp: That’s right. What you and I have talked about before is how do you create more of a presence in social media? You have the main social media sites, like Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, maybe Pinterest, Google+. How do you put out information on a regular basis? There are a couple of tools that make it easier for you to do that. One is Buffer. Buffer has the ability to post and link articles to the various social media accounts you have. There is another company called Quuu. They are an aggregator of online articles. You will probably find articles in almost any niche or subject you can think of. You can get an account for free for both of these. On the free account, you are limited to how many posts you can do and how many social media accounts you can link to, but you can link Buffer with Quuu and pick like four or five different subjects and link two articles a day to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Every single day. Those are what they call curated content. Somebody else wrote it, it’s in your niche, and you post it as interesting information for people who are interested in your niche and what you do. But I also recommend to people they need to be doing some original content of their own. If you have these other services, you don’t have to write something every day or two to three times a week. You can do something original a couple times a month, but there is still a flow of information coming out. That creates engagement. You will build Twitter Followers, Facebook likes, and additional connections on LinkedIn all from having information that flows.
 John: You asked one other question, Hugh. Pipp and I spend a lot of time figuring this out. This is way full-time. There are some basic things that can be done to give your site more visibility, just some real basic things. The biggest thing Pipp said is make sure that you have a LinkedIn account, a Facebook business account or an account that is to your ministry or 501(c)3, a Twitter account, and an Instagram account, and have those connected to your website. That will sure help. You want to make sure that you have accurate information on all those places. You don’t want to confuse Google because that’s not good. You want to make sure information is accurate across platforms. Then when you want to get really serious on one of these areas, it’s probably a good idea to hire somebody who spends a lot of time trying to figure it out. It changes all the time. We use the phrase that Google has all the gold and they make all the rules. We just have to live with those.
 Hugh: The golden rule.
 John: To have an academy would be a great thing. It wouldn’t be a free academy, and it wouldn’t be part-time.
 Hugh: No. I was throwing out an idea. If anybody is listening and interested, we could play with it.
 John: It’s a great idea.
 Hugh: We could do the same thing with a group of people and make it a more level playing field and impact more people and have greater results. Talk about how Google changes things. They are sneaky about it. A logarithm, is that what it is?
 Pipp: Their algorithm, yeah. They have made a lot of changes just in the past couple of years. They have two search algorithms. One is for desktop search, and one is for mobile search. They are separate. They announced about a year and a half ago, or maybe two years ago, that they were going to put more priority on mobile search algorithm, meaning that if you were ranking on page one but your site wasn’t mobile-friendly, because it wasn’t, the mobile-friendly aspect was going to become much more important to the mobile-search algorithm, and you could lose ranking on a mobile search even if you are ranked highly on a desktop search. That was a couple years ago. Then a few months back, they announced that the mobile search algorithm in 2018 was going to be the predominant factor to ranking in the search engines period.
 John: And the reason for that?
 Pipp: Well more than half of all search is mobile. That is mostly Smartphones, but that also includes tablets.
 Hugh: Amazing. Russ, you have been taking this in. I think we should come up with a hard question for these guys. Let’s stump our guests.
 Russell: How do you stop these guys from making all of these changes?
 John: No, it’s a great question. But it goes back to that you have to look at it from their standpoint. They are trying to provide the best product for you and I, the guy who is searching. They are going to work really hard to get into our brains and to put that into their brain to give us the searcher the best result. What we have to be doing as SEO experts is understanding Google and where they are going and then making sure that our clients are providing relevant information for those search terms. It has to be. Otherwise, we are going to mistakenly send somebody to a client’s site, and the Google customer is not going to be happy, which is going to drop them in ranking.
 Russell: This is how they made Yahoo and other people disappear in the first place.
 John: They worked really hard at it to provide the best quality product for their client.
 Pipp: And they make changes all the time. They make changes to their algorithm all the time. The nice part of it is we are actually members of a very large SEO mastermind group that is worldwide in scope. Some of our peers are really smart, and they- actually before Google makes changes, they file patents. They get copies of the new patents that are filed and waiting to be approved and read it. We generally have a pretty good idea of where things are headed. Google does their best to obfuscate that, but they have to have the information in there so the guys in the patent office can say okay. We have some smart colleagues that read that stuff, figure that out, and give us a good idea of where Google is going six months or a year from now.
 Hugh: Part of this change is necessary. People used to pack in the keywords. Then people used to go out and do these fictitious sites with all these backlinks. There were thousands of them, and Google got smart to that.
 Pipp: No matter what the rules that Google comes up with, there will always be somebody who figures out a way around it. Once they figure that out, Google will figure out that they did that, and they will change the rules again. But there are some basic things. We ourselves in our company follow industry-best practice. We don’t do any blackhat. In the SEO world, blackhat is things you know you shouldn’t do, but you do them anyway hoping for a good result and hoping not to get caught. That was standard practice, even five years ago. But the things that a lot of people did and we were doing five years ago, if we did them today, they would get us penalized.
 Still one of the biggest things I see for people who try to do SEO on their own is they over-optimize their websites in terms of keywords. Let’s say they have 600 words of content on their homepage. They will put a keyword in there like 40 times. Google needs it there once or twice and they know what you’re about. When you start putting it in 20-40 times, you get over-optimized. You may see yourself move up in the ranking. You may even get to the bottom or middle of page two, but you won’t get further.
 Hugh: Wow.
 Pipp: it’s almost like they give you hope. I’m movin’ up, I’m movin’ up, I’m movin’ up, and boom, you hit the ceiling. You’re on page two where nobody can find you.
 Hugh: When you get penalized, do you stay there, or is there any way to get out of that?
 Pipp: You can change it. I have had a client this last year who after I had done some SEO work and were moving up nicely, he went in on his own and decided to rewrite one of the pages he wanted to rank for, and he put the keyword in there like 42 times. Then we started dropping back. I was trying to figure out why, and he happened to mention to me that he went in and changed that page. I went in and copied all the information and highlighted all the places he had done that, saying, “This needs to get fixed.” I fixed it. And we shot right back up to page one. It took a little while. When I say “shot right up,” that might have taken two or three months, but that is something that still a lot of people do. I find particularly those who try to do SEO on their own, they are looking at old information and don’t really have the resources to stay abreast of what is working today and what current best practices are.
 Hugh: Russ, did you have more to that question?
 Russell: It gets back to that notion of working within your wheelhouse and not trying to do things that you’re not good at. I definitely don’t know a lot about SEO, but I do write. What I have started doing is looking at the principles of copywriting and studying that because that is what I can do on my own. I definitely need to hire someone- I have a guy working on my website who knows a lot more of this stuff than I do. He is reoptimizing the site, but in order to help myself, I have started looking at copywriting. I put together a series on donors that talks about the information you have to have. You have to know your audience in order to get some traction. That is important. What your content contains is where the keywords are probably going to be found.
 Hugh: Absolutely. Good points. We are on the downside of our interview. We try to keep these under an hour because that’s a lot of time and people want to get some good content. Think about some stuff we haven’t talked about, guys. What is a thought or challenge or tip you want to leave with people?
 Let’s go back to the electronic media. If all of this stuff, Russ and I work with organizations to build out their strategy. We are trying to hunt and peck in the dark rather than having a synergistic plan. I wouldn’t dare get in front of an orchestra or a choir and try to direct without having a piece of music because people are all over the place. We have to have some glue to hold us together, and then people can become engaged. With that, we are very clear on what it is we offer, who it is we offer it to, the value of our service, and the impact. That gives you guys something to work around and to use your magic to bring that constituency to the site and actually do something. If I have heard you correctly, part of it is identifying the trends, finding what it is people are looking for, but also attracting the right people. On the other side, you slipped right by this, you are creating a landing page, and the landing page has to convert. It has something interesting so people don’t leave in .2 seconds, so they engage with you and learn something and want to be part of your tribe, donate, or be a part of your volunteer pool. There is a whole synergy in this thing.
 Let me throw it to you. Like the last time we talked, my brain is firing on many cylinders that I’m not doing right. I can’t handle much more of this, but I have a list of things to do. You will be getting a call from me about my new site. Let me throw it to John and then Pipp. As a departing thought and comment, sum up the things you wish people would do, and remind them of where they can go to find out. You have a survey or something on the site, so talk about that, too.
 John: We have a form that they can go through. What is the name of that form, Pipp?
 Pipp: Strategy form.
 John: We have a strategy form they can go through on the site. It leads them to give us information so we can get back to them with some knowledge of what they are trying to do.
 I am going to step back and go back to what Russell said. Stand in your wheelhouse. Companies that come to us, we are going to have to make the assumption that they are good at what they do. Pipp and I have a really wide range of backgrounds. Pipp has owned several businesses; I have owned several businesses. Sometimes we get more involved than we should in the whole process. But what we look to do is be the SEO expert. What we look for is our clients to bring to us “This is what I do, this is who searches for us, and this is how they search for us. Put me on page one for these three key search terms.” That is what we do. We go after those search terms. Sometimes we get deeper into the weeds than that. That is what we primarily do.
 Pipp: Once they have filled out our strategy form, we then produce an eight-minute video analysis where we look at their website, we look at the competition, the strength of the competition, and then tell them the opportunity that is there. If you rank for this, this is how many searches there are, this is a conservative estimate you could expect as far as visitors, and based upon a conservative conversion rate, how much that traffic would be worth to you. We like to show them how big the opportunity they are missing out on is.
 The other thing I was going to say in closing is something you and I have talked about before, Hugh. We touched a little bit on conversions, and we haven’t talked about video on this call. Video can be a good way to help conversions on your site, on your landing pages. If you can do a short video that deals with your business, that topic of the landing page, usually less than two minutes on your page can be a tremendous help. People like to know who they are potentially going to get involved with. You do a video that is engaging, you look at the person who is watching, you talk to them directly. You want to talk to that single person. You can do that. As I told you once before, I have an attorney client that we had ranked, and he was getting clicks to this website but not getting the conversion. We put a short video on his site, and overnight, that video tripled or quadrupled his phone calls in a week for his business. It was unbelievable how much of a difference it made.
 Hugh: You guys aren’t a one-trick pony. You have a whole lot of different programs and knowledge base and wisdom. That is quite remarkable.
 Pipp: I think that’s one of our strengths. We have gray hair, too. At least I do. I’m not sure John does. We have done a lot of things. We generally have the ability to understand what they’re doing fairly quickly and obviously work within our expertise, which is SEO and digital media. Oftentimes, we can make suggestions to other things you could be doing that could be helpful.
 Hugh: Thank you for jumping in at the last minute and being so gracious to share all of this information (we had a cancellation tonight). You do a lot of upfront service to people. That is a gift. Russell, thank you for being here again and asking really good questions. Russell has made some notes of the profound statements that came out of your mouth.
 Russell: There is one thing I’d like to sneak in before we leave. The service these guys provide is superior, premium. The thing I like about what I see in their website is when they go in there, they define some parameters. If your business or organization is at a certain point, we can help you. If you’re not at that place, then we don’t want to offer you something that will not benefit you. That is integrity on steroids, and I love it.
 Hugh: Russ listens and observes and comes up with some profound statements. John Zentmeyer and Pipp Patten, thank you for sharing your wisdom with our audience tonight.
 
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        <![CDATA[<strong>Increase Your Reach and Donations: Learn About How to Get $10K in Free Adwords</strong> <p>[caption id="attachment_1523" align="alignleft" width="150"]<br> Pip Patton[/caption]</p> <p>Pip Patton and John Zentmeyer will share secrets about how to get $10K in free Google AdWords monthly and how to drive more traffic to your website for more engagement and more publicity. Their company,  Search Intelligence LLC, based in Tampa Florida, is a digital marketing agency.</p> <p>'We believe that marketing in today's digital age should not be confusing to utilize and benefit from.'</p> <p>We help you accomplish this by offering digital marketing services that are easy to understand and implement. Our services start with SEO and include optimized website design, social media management, video marketing and traffic analysis so you can make informed decisions about your marketing strategy.</p> <p>We also work with non-profits by helping them apply for and obtain a Google Grant. A Google Grant is a grant of $10,000 in AdWords advertising each month for your non-profit. You can use the grant to promote your non-profit and gain more exposure online; increase awareness, recruit volunteers, promote special events, etc.</p> <p><strong>Notes from the Interview</strong></p>    <p>Why do we care if people come to our websites?</p> <p>Need for visibility brings more of people you want to see, online is where people are looking.</p> <p>Not ranking on Google is like being 100 miles off the highway with no lights turned on. No one can find you!</p> <p>You can’t get the word out on your work if no one can find you.</p> <p>How do you figure out who to attract to your website?  </p> <p>Extensive interview with client, create keywords and Adwords to drive traffic, find out what people are searching for through online research, very few people aware of what prospects are searching for and tax status is not a factor.</p> <p>Online is where more search for info takes place!</p> <p>1. What is a Google Grant and How Do I Apply?</p> <p>Google’s way to give back to the community; $10,000 month available to 501(c)3; keyword bids restricted to $2 or less; must find enough keywords to use all of the funds.</p> <p>Qualifications - verify status as charity; apply online; campaign (Adwords) must be ready to go when launching </p> <p>2. What is SEO and why do I need it for my charity or church? </p> <p>Paid v. Organic Search priority given to paid; Ranking based on most relevant to search according to Google who cater to their own customers; can use best keywords when they are paid for; Google rates the information you provide, you have to build authority; organic search provides 5 times amount of results as paid search; you have to build credibility through your results; good information adds to your authority!</p> <p>Facebook uses pixels attached to your website to build a â€œsmart dat profile.â€ Google does not do this for you.</p> <p>LinkedIn relation to Google - optimized profiles are critical to building authority, it helps develop authority</p> <p>Organic Reach - Basics</p> <p>Clarity around what you do needs to be clear to Google tech; links back to high authority sites on subject helps (on page SEO) must be relevant and valuable; Google grades authority based on links from other sites, social media, or blog posts that are shared or other shared information. This all takes time using SEO.</p> <p>Only 18% to 20% of traffic comes from paid search. The rest is organic! The top 3 get the lionâ€™s share!</p> <p>Analytics tell you what people type in to find you. Free tutorials available from Google.</p> <p>One-third of searches on monthly basis are different from anything theyâ€™ve ever seen before!</p> <p><a href="http://quuu.com/">QUUU.com</a></p> <p>Buffer and QUUU work together</p> <p>How do people learn how to do SEO in a way that helps them? </p> <p>Creating a presence on the main social media sites use tools like Buffer (link posts to other sites); Quuu - (Aggregator of articles and information for curation); make sure you include some original content that increases engagement</p> <p>Basic Visibility Enhancers - get more than one account (the Big 5; Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Google+, and Instagram); have accurate info on all sites; hire Â someone who has expertise because everything changes frequently</p> <p>Algorithms for mobile and desktop differ, mobile friendly search is more important all the time; by 2018 it will dominate rankings; far more searches on mobile than desktop!</p> <p>Closing Thoughts - (John)Â Go through strategy form to provide the types of information they need to provide good service; stay in your wheelhouse and focus on what you know, let your SEO experts to help you get where you need to be; search terms most relevant to you</p> <p>Closing thoughts - (Pipp) - Take time to analyze your site and other information; video is a great tool for conversion, less than 2 minutes is best when it is engaging, speak like you are having a conversation with a single person; video drives up conversion considerably.</p> <p>Contact Information</p> <p>Search Intelligence, LLC 1520 W Cleveland St</p> <p>Tampa, FL 33606</p> <p>(813) 321-3390</p> <p><a href="http://www.si-5.com/">http://www.si-5.com</a></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>The Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>NPC Interview with Pipp Patton &amp; John Zentmeyer</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Welcome, everyone. We are talking nonprofit language. Our guests tonight are two distinguished-looking gentlemen, Pipp Patton and John Zentmeyer. They are in Florida on the Gulf Coast and in central Florida. They have a very defined expertise. I met Pipp on a couple trips in Orlando doing some interaction with CEOs. You must be a CEO if you are in that group. This company you have, tell me what the name of it is, what inspired you to launch this company, and a little bit about your history and expertise that you bring to this very specialized space.</p> <p><strong>Pipp Patton:</strong> Thank you for having us on. My background: Over 20 years ago, I was actually in the yellow pages business. I used to work with small businesses, helping them promote themselves and growing through the vehicle of yellow pages back when the yellow page directory was the search engine of choice. Then that changed about 10 years ago. At that time, I was transitioning out of yellow pages. I enjoyed working with business owners, and the technology and the digital arena was of great interest to me. I studied it and tried to learn it. I have been now working about seven years or so in that arena with an agency model, where I help businesses be found in Google search primarily.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I used to buy yellow page ads when I had a camera shop. It was the go-to place to find out who to hire and who to solve your problems. That was a unique spot. You transitioned from that space? Was that a direct transition to the digital marketing that you do?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Yeah, pretty much. At that particular time, I left yellow pages because the company I worked for got bought out by someone else, and they didn’t treat their new acquisition people real well. So it was a good opportunity for me to leave there. At that time, my mom needed some attention and care, so I decided to stay home and take care of her. Shortly thereafter, I had been studying digital marketing and had a couple of people that I met that really needed help in that arena. I helped them, and the business evolved from there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Awesome. To fall into that. John, you are part of this team. Talk about that. What brought you to this place?</p> <p><strong>John Zentmeyer:</strong> Directly, Pipp brought me to the place. Pipp and I have done business together off and on, many different ventures, always been good buddies, and always enjoyed bouncing business ideas off each other for over 30 years now. Last year, I was making a transition, and I have owned several businesses. At the time, I was working with a group that I thought I would be at for the rest of my career, but that doesn’t always happen. But Pipp and I had always talked a lot about what he was doing and what was happening in the SEO world. All my career, I have looked for ways to bring large ROIs to companies or to my clients. SEO is a great way to do that. I have always been in the technology world, mostly automation, but this has been a lot of fun, and we have enjoyed working closer together.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell Dennis has been stalking you, so Russell, what did you find out about them online?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> John said wonderful things about Pipp online. It’s a glowing testimony. There are a number of things. There is this track record of years where you have been getting premium results. Coming from the yellow page world, I saw yellow page ads in my sophomore year of college. I made a truckload of money that summer. This was back in 1995 of course.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> That was a good time to be in yellow pages.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> It probably wouldn’t work as well this summer.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Probably not. I would probably go hungry over the summer. You see things like Yelp, but everything is a known directory. The only real power in that stuff is in the testimonials and getting credibility.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Awesome. That is back when a truckload really meant something. A truckload of money was worth something.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That was before the exchange rates went to pot.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh gosh, yeah. Guys, we sent out an email today and one just a few minutes ago to tell people they could get $10,000 of free AdWords. We are going to talk about that. These are people who are in what we call social benefit work. They are running a membership organization. It has a tax-exempt status. They are running a church or synagogue, a community foundation, a cause-based charity. There are lots of people who are in education or government organizations, like down the road from me, we have an agency on aging, my peer group. We have a lot of people doing really good work. Why should we care that people come to our website? We want to direct traffic, but let’s talk about why people come. Who do we want to attract? Let’s take it sequentially. Why do we care, and then who do we want to bring to our website?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Whether it’s a nonprofit or a regular for-profit business, you need more customers, more exposure, more people to know who you are and what you do. Whether they have an interest in perhaps volunteering or donating or being involved in special events that you have, taking advantage of what you may teach, all of those things are there, so having a higher profile online will bring more of those eyeballs and ears to you. If people want information about anything, they are online.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> Take it one step further. Having a website online and not being ranked in Google anywhere is like having your nonprofit or for-profit business ministry, whatever you’re doing, out in the middle of a very dark desert with no lights. So you cannot be found. If you are providing a service for somebody in a nonprofit arena, then the idea is you want people who are looking for that service to be able to find you. That is the biggest reason that you want to expose yourself on that side. Doesn’t matter what you’re doing. If you’re doing for-profit, you want people to be able to find you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There are lots of really good organizations doing really fine work that nobody is aware of. It would occur to me that PR is one good reason. I know people will support the cause they believe in. If they can go to somebody’s website and see the impact of the work of the charity—who are we serving, what problem are we solving—how do we figure out which people to attract to the website? That matters a lot, doesn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> It definitely does. In our world, what John and I do, generally when we work with an organization, they are telling us what people are searching for to find them, or at least the basic concept. We will build campaigns around that. If we are doing SEO, then we are going to work to make their site visible for certain keywords, as an example. In the AdWords arena, it’s the same thing. You are bidding on keywords to become visible in a search. If somebody is new to an area and is looking for a specific type of denomination, they may go online to see what’s around them. If you’re not visible, you just missed out on a new member perhaps.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There are a lot of choices in life today, aren’t there?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> There sure are. Most businesses, or organizations if you will, today I find aren’t really aware of how many searches there actually are online for their service or product. It’s the single largest pool that exists of prospective new customers, clients. Those are interchangeable words, even in the nonprofit world. It equates to the same thing. If you have a business or an organization, and you are working in a certain arena, there is more search for that information about that online than there is anywhere else.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Awesome.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> Hugh, you can relate to this. What happened when you got a yellow page ad?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> People would call me up and say, “I see you have this.”</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> They found you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That was the go-to place. We actually went to the yellow pages last week to look for some resources for moving.</p> <p>We put out a line that people get $10,000 in AdWords. Talk about that program. I have one of these grants, and I don’t know how in the world I got it. Somebody helped me get it. I am still learning how to work it, but I am spending $10,000 a month. Talk about that program. How do people acquire that grant?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> It’s a terrific program by Google. This is their way of giving back to the community at large here in the United States .it may be available overseas, too; I’m not sure of that. It’s a grant that they offer to any 501(c)3 for $10,000 a month to use any way the organization sees fit. The determination of the success of any advertising campaign is totally up to you. Google is providing that. The only restriction they put on it is that you can’t bid on a keyword that is more than $2. Now depending on the area you live in, larger areas, certain keywords that might fit your organization might be highly competitive, and they would be well in excess of $2. But just as you found, Hugh, if you work with somebody who understands how to dig out the keywords that still fit the proper niche that you are going after, you can find enough keywords to bid on to utilize those dollars.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I think I have 24,000 keywords in all of the things that are related to us, and we have an average position of 2.5 on a search.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> That is terrific. That is very good. And you are working on a national level, correct?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m working with anybody who speaks English. We got Philippines, Australia, New Zealand.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> There are many organizations who would be able to take the same approach. If it was a local church or synagogue, an organization like that, they might be more defined by a geographic area. But still, the exposure that they can gain from that is just fabulous, and it is a really terrific program that Google has put out there and made available to all the 501(c)3s.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> How do you get it? How do you qualify for it?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> It’s an application process. They just have to verify you are truly a legitimate 501(c)3. Doesn’t matter what you are promoting or what you’re about. We actually offer that service to nonprofits where we will do the application process for them. We don’t charge for that. We are pretty successful. We haven’t had anything not approved so far. Along with that application process, you have to have a campaign that is ready to go. Google sees there is a campaign in place that you are ready to turn on the minute they say yes.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> An AdWords campaign.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Yes, an AdWords campaign</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You can register for that for free. If you do it on your own, you pay per click. Russell, they just slipped something in there. Did you hear what I hear? He said they do it for free.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Maybe we shouldn’t have said that, John. What do you think?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> It’s a little too late now, Pipp. You can’t put that one back in the bag.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> I will say this. We don’t manage campaigns for free. I found a lot of people- The application process can be confusing to them. You can’t even begin until you get approved. We have at least been able to figure that out and are willing to do that for anybody. They can manage their own campaigns. When you get into the nitty-gritty of it, as you found, Hugh, you need somebody to help you because it would be difficult for you on your own to find 24,000 keywords.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my word. And to put them in the right ads in the right places to direct them to the right page to do what we call conversions.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> You have to have landing pages and ad groups and campaigns and this stuff that needs to be done to optimize it. One of the reasons you have 24,000 keywords is you want to utilize all that money and are limited to $2 a click. You have to find a keyword that might only get five searches a month, but you want to make sure you are found when those five people are searching.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s the misspelling of the words, too. People who spell leader wrong just as a typo. Laeder. John, you were going to say something?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> I just said the maximum is $2. It’s not that they are all $2.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I adjust them down, and sometimes I get the mileage. There is also a quality score. I have some that are 7’s and 8’s, which I understand is pretty hard to do. They rate you on the quality of the word as to where you are driving it. There are some sophisticated tools out there to watch what you’re doing. It’s just amazing. Where do people contact you to let you help them do that and start that conversation?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> They can call me. Our phone number is 813-321-3390. That is our main line here in Tampa. They can go to our website. On the website you can get contact information. The phone number is there of course, and there is an email link to send us an email if you want. They can reach me via email if they like at pipp@si-5.com.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Si-5.com is the website. That is a very generous offer. It’s not a lot of work. I want to talk about the juxtaposition of SEO and the ads. Those two need to have some synergy. John, you were talking about that if you did the SEO, it would get you more mileage for less money with the AdWords. I’m surprised they didn’t cancel me. I had the grant. It had five or six campaigns going. Now I have several thousand campaigns or ad groups going. Four campaigns. But I found that no matter what I tried, I could not spend more than $300 a month. That is the maximum you spend a day, $332 or $333. I spend that every day now. But I couldn’t figure that out. So I had to get somebody to help me. That is a for-hire thing you can do. I got frustrated because I shouldn’t have been doing this in the first place. I do leadership and culture and strategy really well. I suck at that. Suck is halfway to success. Talk about why you need this if you do SEO.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> It’s the difference between paid search and organic search. Whenever you do a Google search, you bring up a search result page. At the very top, the first three or four listings are going to be the paid ads. The next ten listings below that are what they call the organic or non-paid listings. Each of these listings, paid or unpaid, are the listings that Google believes are the most relevant to the search you have done.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> They are catering to their own customer. I as a Google searcher am a Google customer. They want to try to provide me the most relevant and best options possible so I am happy.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> You are happy and continue to use Google.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> That’s right.</p> <p>Pipp: Why don’t you go ahead and talk about the percentages of where the clicks go, John?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> That is important. if I launch a campaign today, I can bid on an AdWord today, and I can get that AdWord and I can be found for that word today. Organic is a little bit different. That takes a little bit more time, authority, optimization. Google is not going to make that change quickly because again they want to make sure you actually do have good information to provide their customer when they search for a given keyword. That is why it takes time to build that authority for the organic search. What is very interesting is that the difference between the paid search and the organic search is there is about five times more volume for the organic search. That is a big deal. If you are buying AdWords and you are getting traffic, that is great because I can do it today. That is a way to get to the organic search. You can start to get traffic today but realize that over time you will have a lot more to choose from if you are getting the organic search. It just takes time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Does Google learn, or does the effectiveness grow over time? I have listened to people talk about how they do Facebook ads. Over the weeks and months, the Facebook ads build a knowledge base and becomes more effective over time. That may or may not be the accurate description, but is there something like that with AdWords?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> The parallel would be- I guess it would be the authority that you gain by having good information and making it available so Google can read it, understand it. Your page is optimized. The information you are providing is relevant. Google will look at all of that. If I have a new page and someone finds me but my information is not very relevant, Google’s customer, the searcher, will leave. Google doesn’t like that.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> I understand your question also relates to Facebook. Facebook has what they call a pixel. They want you to put that pixel on your website. Facebook learns. Facebook’s algorithm learns who clicks on your ads and who your ideal customer is, and they get smarter and smarter at putting your ad in front of people that fit a profile that is more likely to click.</p> <p>AdWords, I don’t believe does that. To be honest with you, my business partner is more knowledgeable than I am on the running of the AdWords campaigns.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> You should clarify that as your other business partner.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Yes, sorry. My other business partner, who is on vacation with her children right now and her husband. But I don’t believe that the AdWords does that. It’s pretty much up to us as the buyer of AdWords to optimize the campaigns and figure out what is working best.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> My colleague Russell is very active on LinkedIn. I have heard you guys other times talk about authority. Russ does a lot of good stuff on LinkedIn. He has articles, and his description of who he is is very valuable. How does that play into the picture with the Google SEO and the AdWords and the whole package?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Having an optimized profile on LinkedIn, as well as other social media properties, is all important. Every one of those provides a description of you and your business, a link back to your website from a site that Google sees as high authority. When you can get a link back from a high authority site, some of that authority transfers back, and it helps you build the authority of your website. Those are all part of the mix. They don’t really have much of an effect on your AdWords, but from an SEO standpoint, those are very important elements.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, did that bring up any questions or comments on your side?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Keywords are important. This program for grants is something I have seen because who couldn’t use $10,000. When I read the language, there is a certain amount of traffic you have to drive. If you don’t do that, they pass it on to people who can use it. The idea of them looking at keeping their own credibility high by giving their users what they need makes perfect sense. Unless somebody has a lot of expertise in that, and I don’t think you have that on your typical nonprofit staff, is it’s a wonderful opportunity, but you have to be able to drive the traffic to keep it going.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> That is correct. Google AdWords is much more complicated to optimize, and it takes some time to optimize a campaign. Usually when you are working with AdWords, you will figure the first three or four months is what you will put in to tweak and figure it out. We are managing a campaign for a chiropractor client. It’s not a big campaign or a huge amount of money, but we took it over because the people who were handling it for them were unhappy with the results they were getting. We have taken it over. We have had it about two months, and it will be another month or two before we get it fine-tuned. I was in my office just now building landing pages because they were sending all this paid traffic to their homepage. In their particular case, if you were looking for a chiropractic solution for back pain, the homepage mentions it, but it doesn’t really talk about it in depth. So it’s less likely to create a conversion or getting a phone call for an appointment than if they were landing on a page that spoke to that particular problem directly. I am in the process of building them landing pages that will help their conversion, and the better conversion you get helps your quality score. Hugh is obviously doing that well if he has some 7’s and 8’s in quality scores.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m not getting the conversions I want, but it has gone up dramatically in the past two months. I am starting to fine-tune it. I had some AdWords that weren’t relevant, which were bringing in some people who weren’t the right people. I wanted to come back to that piece. We want to bring the people that can find words, and we can trick them into coming, but if it’s not what they want, they will leave within a second or two. So we just wasted the money.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Then Google dings you and realizes that ad is not working. Regardless of what you are bidding, they drop you down in position. With AdWords, even if there are three or four ads at the top of the page, even if they are all bidding the same thing, if they all have the same quality score, Google rotates those around. As time goes by and one or two gain more traction because they have a higher quality score—they are getting a better click rate, even though it’s the same price or a little lower price—Google will show them ahead of the other ads. They want people to have a good experience so they keep using them. Like John said, the person doing the searching is the customer that Google is trying to please.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a really important area to understand. I’m a pretty smart guy, but it’s taken me a while to wrap my head around this. I am learning it so I can bring on somebody and have them manage it. There are lots of charities doing social media, and they don’t do themselves any favors. There are lots of charities who put up pretty websites. Propeller Head makes them something nice. They say you have all these hits. I think I shared this with you, but it’s said that hits are how idiots attract success. It really doesn’t matter who comes. Hits is every time you download an image or a page or something, so you can have a lot of hits with nothing. It’s really coming back to this what do people do, the conversions, that matters.</p> <p>Let’s go into some of the things you know people need to learn. When you put up a webpage or site, Google looks at everything. How does this organic SEO work?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> That’s where it starts. The very first thing is that Google is a computer. It needs to make sense to Google. You can’t infer things. It has to be written and optimized such that Google can read it and understand exactly what you do, what you’re promoting, what information you’re providing. We want to make sure you have optimized it so Google can understand it. Then you want to start to look for ways to continue to build that authority. We mentioned having links back from high authority sites so Google realizes, “Oh, okay. This site thinks that they are providing the right information about this given subject.” But the big thing is it does start on the page. We call it on-page SEO. It needs to have the right information in the right format and make sense for Google.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Go back to this authority site thing. Talk a little bit more about that.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> The sites that you see in organic search on the results page—those are the sites that Google feels are the most relevant, which to them means they feel they have the highest authority on that subject. Authority is predominantly gained in a number of ways, but one of the biggest is links from other sites. It might be social media sites you have. It might be other people linking to your information. Maybe you wrote an article or a blog post, and other people pick up that blog post and repost it on their Facebook page or their own blog. Through that, there is a link back to your site from another site that has relevant information. It takes time. That is why John was talking about how SEO takes time. You can buy a paid ad and be at the top of the search for a given keyword tomorrow. But with SEO, it takes time to build that authority, and it takes time for Google to trust your site. A brand new site comes up, and no matter how good your information is, it can take months for those links to build and for Google to gain the confidence and trust that you are the right one to show for search results for that given keyword.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> How do these two work together, the organic SEO and the AdWords? Is there a negative dynamic we can create that cancels each other out?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> No, there is nothing negative about it. The numbers are interesting. Paid search gets about 18-20% of clicks on a page. Organic gets the rest.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Whoa. 18% is paid search?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> 18-20. It can be different in different niches, but that is the average. Of all the ads out there, somebody searches for a new plumber. They say “My toilet is leaking and I need a plumber,” so they search for that. There will be ads at the top of the page. Those ads will get 18 out of 100 clicks. The organic listings will get the rest with the top three getting the lion’s share. That is what SEO is. Our job is to build that authority and get an organization’s site ranked into those top three to five positions. The reason I say three to five is in many niches, there are directory-type sites that will get into that top five, and they are not direct links. Customers will avoid those and go directly to a business because they want a solution to their problem.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yeah. People are looking for things. You can go to Analytics and other tools like that to figure out what people are putting in, can’t you?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Analytics will tell you what someone typed in in order to find you. That is certainly a great tool. Anyone who has a website should sign up and get Google Analytics. It’s a free service from Google. They offer great tutorials on learning how to digest the data.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That would be a good way to research what people are looking for, is that true?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> It would be, except you don’t really have access. Google has a Keyword tool built into AdWords where you can type in a keyword and they will give you a range of how much search there is for those. Or they might come back and show no search even if there is some. It may be low, but there is some. I have a friend who often says, “It’s great how much money I’ve made from search terms that Google shows there is no search for.” Anyway. But there are new searches all the time. Google says a third of the searches they see every month are searches done in a particular manner that they have never seen before. That is constantly changing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Give me that statistic again.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> A third of all the searches that Google sees every month are done a little differently than they have ever seen before.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I thought that’s what you said. That’s remarkable.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> It is. I know.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> We can’t use another term like that. I don’t think Hugh can stand it. We can’t bring him a new statistic that is blowing his mind.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s amazing.</p> <p><strong>Russell</strong>: At this rate, his hair will start turning gray.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> It will light on fire.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> You have to ease up on him.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> At least I got hair. Ha!</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is the secret to not having any gray. You cut it all off.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Last week, we had an interview with Les Brown, and Les talks about using the mascara on his gray. He said his gray hair doesn’t last very long. He keeps looking fresh with that look.</p> <p>Guys, this is fascinating stuff. People put up websites, and they wonder why nobody comes. They really do stupid things on social media. It’s really social. How do people learn about this? I think we should create an academy and have a membership for people who are in charitable work to learn how to do these things. Like Russ said, they have a small staff and not a lot of money. If they started getting traffic and people found them and they raised the donor base- and actually if donors know what you’re doing, the impact you’re having, they will continue to be donors and spread the word. There is no negative aspect to tooting your horn and letting people know about it. Come back to some of my crazy ideas here.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> That’s right. What you and I have talked about before is how do you create more of a presence in social media? You have the main social media sites, like Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, maybe Pinterest, Google+. How do you put out information on a regular basis? There are a couple of tools that make it easier for you to do that. One is Buffer. Buffer has the ability to post and link articles to the various social media accounts you have. There is another company called Quuu. They are an aggregator of online articles. You will probably find articles in almost any niche or subject you can think of. You can get an account for free for both of these. On the free account, you are limited to how many posts you can do and how many social media accounts you can link to, but you can link Buffer with Quuu and pick like four or five different subjects and link two articles a day to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Every single day. Those are what they call curated content. Somebody else wrote it, it’s in your niche, and you post it as interesting information for people who are interested in your niche and what you do. But I also recommend to people they need to be doing some original content of their own. If you have these other services, you don’t have to write something every day or two to three times a week. You can do something original a couple times a month, but there is still a flow of information coming out. That creates engagement. You will build Twitter Followers, Facebook likes, and additional connections on LinkedIn all from having information that flows.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> You asked one other question, Hugh. Pipp and I spend a lot of time figuring this out. This is way full-time. There are some basic things that can be done to give your site more visibility, just some real basic things. The biggest thing Pipp said is make sure that you have a LinkedIn account, a Facebook business account or an account that is to your ministry or 501(c)3, a Twitter account, and an Instagram account, and have those connected to your website. That will sure help. You want to make sure that you have accurate information on all those places. You don’t want to confuse Google because that’s not good. You want to make sure information is accurate across platforms. Then when you want to get really serious on one of these areas, it’s probably a good idea to hire somebody who spends a lot of time trying to figure it out. It changes all the time. We use the phrase that Google has all the gold and they make all the rules. We just have to live with those.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The golden rule.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> To have an academy would be a great thing. It wouldn’t be a free academy, and it wouldn’t be part-time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> No. I was throwing out an idea. If anybody is listening and interested, we could play with it.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> It’s a great idea.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We could do the same thing with a group of people and make it a more level playing field and impact more people and have greater results. Talk about how Google changes things. They are sneaky about it. A logarithm, is that what it is?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Their algorithm, yeah. They have made a lot of changes just in the past couple of years. They have two search algorithms. One is for desktop search, and one is for mobile search. They are separate. They announced about a year and a half ago, or maybe two years ago, that they were going to put more priority on mobile search algorithm, meaning that if you were ranking on page one but your site wasn’t mobile-friendly, because it wasn’t, the mobile-friendly aspect was going to become much more important to the mobile-search algorithm, and you could lose ranking on a mobile search even if you are ranked highly on a desktop search. That was a couple years ago. Then a few months back, they announced that the mobile search algorithm in 2018 was going to be the predominant factor to ranking in the search engines period.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> And the reason for that?</p> <p><strong>Pipp</strong>: Well more than half of all search is mobile. That is mostly Smartphones, but that also includes tablets.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Amazing. Russ, you have been taking this in. I think we should come up with a hard question for these guys. Let’s stump our guests.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> How do you stop these guys from making all of these changes?</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> No, it’s a great question. But it goes back to that you have to look at it from their standpoint. They are trying to provide the best product for you and I, the guy who is searching. They are going to work really hard to get into our brains and to put that into their brain to give us the searcher the best result. What we have to be doing as SEO experts is understanding Google and where they are going and then making sure that our clients are providing relevant information for those search terms. It has to be. Otherwise, we are going to mistakenly send somebody to a client’s site, and the Google customer is not going to be happy, which is going to drop them in ranking.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is how they made Yahoo and other people disappear in the first place.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> They worked really hard at it to provide the best quality product for their client.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> And they make changes all the time. They make changes to their algorithm all the time. The nice part of it is we are actually members of a very large SEO mastermind group that is worldwide in scope. Some of our peers are really smart, and they- actually before Google makes changes, they file patents. They get copies of the new patents that are filed and waiting to be approved and read it. We generally have a pretty good idea of where things are headed. Google does their best to obfuscate that, but they have to have the information in there so the guys in the patent office can say okay. We have some smart colleagues that read that stuff, figure that out, and give us a good idea of where Google is going six months or a year from now.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Part of this change is necessary. People used to pack in the keywords. Then people used to go out and do these fictitious sites with all these backlinks. There were thousands of them, and Google got smart to that.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> No matter what the rules that Google comes up with, there will always be somebody who figures out a way around it. Once they figure that out, Google will figure out that they did that, and they will change the rules again. But there are some basic things. We ourselves in our company follow industry-best practice. We don’t do any blackhat. In the SEO world, blackhat is things you know you shouldn’t do, but you do them anyway hoping for a good result and hoping not to get caught. That was standard practice, even five years ago. But the things that a lot of people did and we were doing five years ago, if we did them today, they would get us penalized.</p> <p>Still one of the biggest things I see for people who try to do SEO on their own is they over-optimize their websites in terms of keywords. Let’s say they have 600 words of content on their homepage. They will put a keyword in there like 40 times. Google needs it there once or twice and they know what you’re about. When you start putting it in 20-40 times, you get over-optimized. You may see yourself move up in the ranking. You may even get to the bottom or middle of page two, but you won’t get further.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> it’s almost like they give you hope. I’m movin’ up, I’m movin’ up, I’m movin’ up, and boom, you hit the ceiling. You’re on page two where nobody can find you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> When you get penalized, do you stay there, or is there any way to get out of that?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> You can change it. I have had a client this last year who after I had done some SEO work and were moving up nicely, he went in on his own and decided to rewrite one of the pages he wanted to rank for, and he put the keyword in there like 42 times. Then we started dropping back. I was trying to figure out why, and he happened to mention to me that he went in and changed that page. I went in and copied all the information and highlighted all the places he had done that, saying, “This needs to get fixed.” I fixed it. And we shot right back up to page one. It took a little while. When I say “shot right up,” that might have taken two or three months, but that is something that still a lot of people do. I find particularly those who try to do SEO on their own, they are looking at old information and don’t really have the resources to stay abreast of what is working today and what current best practices are.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, did you have more to that question?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It gets back to that notion of working within your wheelhouse and not trying to do things that you’re not good at. I definitely don’t know a lot about SEO, but I do write. What I have started doing is looking at the principles of copywriting and studying that because that is what I can do on my own. I definitely need to hire someone- I have a guy working on my website who knows a lot more of this stuff than I do. He is reoptimizing the site, but in order to help myself, I have started looking at copywriting. I put together a series on donors that talks about the information you have to have. You have to know your audience in order to get some traction. That is important. What your content contains is where the keywords are probably going to be found.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. Good points. We are on the downside of our interview. We try to keep these under an hour because that’s a lot of time and people want to get some good content. Think about some stuff we haven’t talked about, guys. What is a thought or challenge or tip you want to leave with people?</p> <p>Let’s go back to the electronic media. If all of this stuff, Russ and I work with organizations to build out their strategy. We are trying to hunt and peck in the dark rather than having a synergistic plan. I wouldn’t dare get in front of an orchestra or a choir and try to direct without having a piece of music because people are all over the place. We have to have some glue to hold us together, and then people can become engaged. With that, we are very clear on what it is we offer, who it is we offer it to, the value of our service, and the impact. That gives you guys something to work around and to use your magic to bring that constituency to the site and actually do something. If I have heard you correctly, part of it is identifying the trends, finding what it is people are looking for, but also attracting the right people. On the other side, you slipped right by this, you are creating a landing page, and the landing page has to convert. It has something interesting so people don’t leave in .2 seconds, so they engage with you and learn something and want to be part of your tribe, donate, or be a part of your volunteer pool. There is a whole synergy in this thing.</p> <p>Let me throw it to you. Like the last time we talked, my brain is firing on many cylinders that I’m not doing right. I can’t handle much more of this, but I have a list of things to do. You will be getting a call from me about my new site. Let me throw it to John and then Pipp. As a departing thought and comment, sum up the things you wish people would do, and remind them of where they can go to find out. You have a survey or something on the site, so talk about that, too.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> We have a form that they can go through. What is the name of that form, Pipp?</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Strategy form.</p> <p><strong>John:</strong> We have a strategy form they can go through on the site. It leads them to give us information so we can get back to them with some knowledge of what they are trying to do.</p> <p>I am going to step back and go back to what Russell said. Stand in your wheelhouse. Companies that come to us, we are going to have to make the assumption that they are good at what they do. Pipp and I have a really wide range of backgrounds. Pipp has owned several businesses; I have owned several businesses. Sometimes we get more involved than we should in the whole process. But what we look to do is be the SEO expert. What we look for is our clients to bring to us “This is what I do, this is who searches for us, and this is how they search for us. Put me on page one for these three key search terms.” That is what we do. We go after those search terms. Sometimes we get deeper into the weeds than that. That is what we primarily do.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> Once they have filled out our strategy form, we then produce an eight-minute video analysis where we look at their website, we look at the competition, the strength of the competition, and then tell them the opportunity that is there. If you rank for this, this is how many searches there are, this is a conservative estimate you could expect as far as visitors, and based upon a conservative conversion rate, how much that traffic would be worth to you. We like to show them how big the opportunity they are missing out on is.</p> <p>The other thing I was going to say in closing is something you and I have talked about before, Hugh. We touched a little bit on conversions, and we haven’t talked about video on this call. Video can be a good way to help conversions on your site, on your landing pages. If you can do a short video that deals with your business, that topic of the landing page, usually less than two minutes on your page can be a tremendous help. People like to know who they are potentially going to get involved with. You do a video that is engaging, you look at the person who is watching, you talk to them directly. You want to talk to that single person. You can do that. As I told you once before, I have an attorney client that we had ranked, and he was getting clicks to this website but not getting the conversion. We put a short video on his site, and overnight, that video tripled or quadrupled his phone calls in a week for his business. It was unbelievable how much of a difference it made.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You guys aren’t a one-trick pony. You have a whole lot of different programs and knowledge base and wisdom. That is quite remarkable.</p> <p><strong>Pipp:</strong> I think that’s one of our strengths. We have gray hair, too. At least I do. I’m not sure John does. We have done a lot of things. We generally have the ability to understand what they’re doing fairly quickly and obviously work within our expertise, which is SEO and digital media. Oftentimes, we can make suggestions to other things you could be doing that could be helpful.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you for jumping in at the last minute and being so gracious to share all of this information (we had a cancellation tonight). You do a lot of upfront service to people. That is a gift. Russell, thank you for being here again and asking really good questions. Russell has made some notes of the profound statements that came out of your mouth.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There is one thing I’d like to sneak in before we leave. The service these guys provide is superior, premium. The thing I like about what I see in their website is when they go in there, they define some parameters. If your business or organization is at a certain point, we can help you. If you’re not at that place, then we don’t want to offer you something that will not benefit you. That is integrity on steroids, and I love it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ listens and observes and comes up with some profound statements. John Zentmeyer and Pipp Patten, thank you for sharing your wisdom with our audience tonight.</p> <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Interview with Les Brown</title>
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 Hugh: Hi, this is Hugh Ballou again, and this is a very special episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. I have over here my good friend, Les Brown. And Les is going to share with you this movement that he has initiated. Over here, my new friend Tamara Hartley. Les?
 Les: Yes?
 Hugh: We have been capturing ideas on the storyboards about this project that you have got in mind. Tell people what this project is.
 Les: It’s a project that is designed to make a greater impact on people on the general population and helping people to develop the tools, mindset, skillset, and collaborative, achievement-driven relationships that will allow them to create the greatest version of themselves. This is the era that the late Peter Drucker calls the Era of the 3 C’s: accelerated Change, overwhelming Complexity, and then Competition. With all the changes taking place with technology—according to the Department of Labor, over 20,000 people are losing their jobs every day, and 50% of the jobs that now exist can be done by robots—when we look at the advance of artificial intelligence and cheap labor abroad, people literally are now in an entrepreneur’s era, and they have to begin to expand their skillset so they will be able to handle what is required to be in this global economy where accelerated change is taking place.
 Hugh: It is so true. You see it happening every day.
 Les: Yes.
 Hugh: Every day, there is massive changes. You have a special passion for those people who are incarcerated and continue to be incarcerated. Talk about that.
 Les: We incarcerate more people in America than anyplace else in the world. We are making people bitter rather than better. I believe that we have to develop a higher level of consciousness on how we deal with people that have made some bad choices. My goal is, to people that are incarcerated, if prisons will allow me, to have my programs in the prison that will change their mindset, teach them how to become an effective communicator, how to develop positive, collaborative, achievement-driven, supportive relationships, how to earn money online as entrepreneurs, and how to dress like a prospect rather than a suspect.
 Hugh: A prospect rather than a suspect.
 Les: Yes, because the truth is, when people get a criminal background, they are not going to get any jobs. If they do, those jobs won’t pay much money. These individuals are not going to starve to death. They are going to find a way to feed themselves. As a result, that is why the recidivism rate is over 80%. If you had a factory that was producing products, and 80% of the products came back defective, you wouldn’t continue to use that process.
 There has been a slight change in how we are dealing with people that have made some bad choices in our society. Rather than throwing money at caging them, they are now looking at the possibility of helping them to learn how to read because over 76% of them are functional illiterates, giving them the skillset and giving them some support to help them to be reintegrated into society. If you go to jail, you can’t stay in public housing. If you apply for a job, you have to put down that you have a criminal background. Most employers will say, “We’ll call you. Don’t call us.” They are penalized throughout their lives, even after they have paid their debt to society. That’s not fair.
 My mother was once incarcerated. She sold home brew and moonshine and wrote numbers when she could no longer work at the M&amp;M cafeteria. That was a tough time. I became a man at ten years old as a result of that. Seven children in a house that no longer had the guardian, the person who took care of us. She adopted seven of us. She said that she made a commitment when she did that that we would never go to bed hungry, and we did not. We would always have a roof over our head, and we did have that. That was a gaff in our lives that was very painful and challenging.
 There are a lot of good people who made some bad choices, and I believe the world consists of the caught and the uncaught. I have made some bad decisions in my life. I did some stupid things when I was younger. Thank God I didn’t get caught. I believe that God was looking out for me because when I go to the bathroom, I leave the door open a crack. I do it all the time. What did Retta say? If you can’t do the time, don’t commit the crime.
 Hugh: Les Brown, you have this magical ability to put concepts into powerful words and to communicate it to people. I have been in groups that have just been so excited. I know that people write you and people speak to you about how you have inspired them. Something you said, and the content you gave them, gave them substance to get them out of where they were. It’s a mind shift, isn’t it?
 Les: No question. To put it in another context, you are expanding their vision of themselves. When people are going through a tough time, they have a tendency to expand and exaggerate the circumstances they are going through. When I speak, my goal is to expand your vision of yourself, to begin to see that there is greatness in you, that you are greater than your circumstances. You are better than anything you are going through now or in the future. You have to affirm to yourself.
 I have dealt with cancer on a regular basis for 21 years. My affirmation is: “This will not get the best of me.” I have to say this to myself, “I refuse to allow this to live in my life. I am stronger than this.” We have to, I believe, program ourselves and talk to ourselves to get through the stuff we are dealing with because things are going to happen to us. Forrest Gump is right, “Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re going to get.”
 Greater is He that is in us and the He that is in the world as a presence. There is a power that we all have within ourselves that we have not been trained how to access so that we can rise above what we are going through and live our lives from the inside out rather than living our lives from the outside in. You have to discipline yourself not to get caught up and buy into what I call the weapons of mass distractions. There are so many things that will distract you and tell you that you can’t handle this or deal with this. You have to harness your will. You have to say to yourself, “I am going to get through this.” When life has been kicking my butt, no matter how bad it is, I have an affirmation, “I am going to make it.”
 When I say that, I think about my mother because she went through some tough times, raising seven children that she didn’t give birth to. She had a third grade education, was a domestic worker, and had arthritis. She would say, “Arthur is bothering me.” I would ask her, “Mama, who is Arthur? You are always talking about Arthur.” She said, “Don’t worry. If you live long enough, you’ll find out.” I have Arthur in my right butt. In my behind. You know what I mean? On the right side.
 I was at a church service, and this lady was a healer. So I decided to get in line. She asked, “Can I help you?” I said, “Well, just touch me at the top of my head, and the healing power will go through my whole body.” She said, “I want direct impact.” I said, “Well, I have prostate cancer, and I have arthritis in my right butt.” She said, “Touching means the same.” She was not going to touch me in the groin.
 Hugh: Oh my.
 Les: This is real, I’m telling you. She gave me some prayer cards, which I still have in my underwear right now. I was going back and forth on the stage. I saw people laughing and looking past me. This was in Detroit. I asked, “What are you laughing at?” These prayer cards that I had paid $3 for had slipped out of my pants, and I had a line of prayer cards going across the stage. I said, “You all can laugh if you want.” I picked them up and put them right in my underwear. 21 years of kicking cancer’s butt.
 Hugh: Your whole life is changing the paradigm because of your determination and your vision for yourself.
 Les: Yes.
 Hugh: We are in Cleveland, Ohio. We spent a chunk of yesterday letting you download your vision. This is a foundation that you are starting, but it’s bigger than that. It’s more like a movement. You are talking about 80% return to prison. That is a crisis.
 Les: Yes.
 Hugh: And you’re doing something about it. This is an official notice. We haven’t named it, but you are launching the Les Brown Foundation that provides support. You are going to invite people to participate in this movement with you. We are in this room in Ohio, and we have had some really powerful conversations. This is a huge vision, Les. I have worked with charities for 31 years. This is the top of the heap. This is powerful. Why am I here, and why is Tamara here?
 Les: The two of you have a skillset that I don’t have. You are very knowledgeable and experienced in this area of how to set up a nonprofit, along with Sherita Herring. Part of what I want to do, two people that I know who have integrity and experience and the skillset and other relationships that I don’t have, and that can teach me. I have asked for help, not because I am weak, but because I want to remain strong. Ask for help, but don’t stop until you get it.
 I could have gone on to set up a nonprofit; a lot of people do that. But I wanted to do it in the right way. I wanted to have a system and a level of transparency. When people contribute to the work that we are going to be doing, they will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the money is going where we said it will go. I believe that when you are going to do something of this magnitude, you need people in your corner that can help you do that, that know things that you don’t know, and can set it up the right way so you can accelerate your level of success. You and Tamara are two individuals I strongly believe in. I met you at CEO Space.
 When we look at putting something together that will outlast you—to me, greatness is living your life in such a way that the things that you create, as one Russian author said, will not be undone or destroyed after you’re gone. We are only here for a limited amount of time. I had a plan of doing an event with Wayne Dyer, and we talked about doing a PBS Special. We put it off for several months. He finally called me and said, “I am coming to Orlando. Let’s get together and do this PBS special.” Two days later, he had a massive heart attack.
 We have to seize the moment. I am 72. I look much younger because I don’t believe in gray hair. There is no shade in my gait. I travel around with mascara in my pocket. If any gray hair comes out, I will touch it up in a heartbeat. The only three gray hairs that show up are in my eyelashes because I haven’t figured out how to do that yet. But I’m thinking about working on getting me some Mary Kay and hooking this stuff up.
 My goal now is about leaving a legacy. What will be different because I came this way? I have been thinking about that as a 21-year cancer conqueror, because of God’s grace and mercy. My goal is to live a life that they could say, This guy, because of his passion and his commitment to help transform people’s lives, like somebody transformed his life, he made an impact. There are people as a result of going through his training or hearing him speak that they were never the same as a result of being in his presence. I want to make my life mean something. Most people after they die, about two or three weeks later, because their lives were so inconsequential, they just worked a job, paid the bills, and took care of the family. One day, they were out of here. I don’t want it like that.
 I remember talking to my daughter on the telephone, and she said, “Dad, I am here in traffic, and there is a policeman on a motorcycle in the middle of the road. He is obviously stopping traffic for a funeral procession to come by.” I said, “Okay.” She said, “I think I’m going to be here a minute.” All of a sudden, she said, “Whoa, wow.” I said, “What’s wrong?” She said, “Nothing’s wrong. A hearse just went through. Only one car was behind it. When I die, Dad, I want, because of how I live my life, there to be a long procession of cars and people coming out to celebrate my life, that I was here in the difference I made for them.” I said, “I understand that.”
 That is what I want. When I go, people will come out to celebrate my life because I did some good stuff. As evil prevails, a lot of good men and women do nothing. There is a lot of good that all of us can do.
 But one of the things that I think about often, a lady that flew over from Australia for me to train her in speaking, I asked her, “Why did you select me? There are a lot of people all over the world.” She said, “I saw you on YouTube speaking in the Georgia Dome, and you speak from your heart. Therefore, I want to learn how to speak from the heart as well.” I said, “I can teach you how to do that.”
 Then I stopped and said, “What is your why? What is the reason you want to discover your power voice?” She said, “When I saw Dylann Roof, a young white kid who went to an African-American church and killed nine black people, “I felt there should be another person on his side standing before the judge. He was not born with that level of hatred in him. Somebody was in his ear. Somebody twisted his mind.” Then she paused and said, “I believe the world is as it is not because a few people are violent. I believe the world is as it is because too many people are silent.” When she said that, that really grabbed me. That gave me goose bumps.
 I want my voice and the voices of the people I train to be a chorus to create a different kind of mindset on the planet. I believe that can be done in our lifetime.
 Hugh: What we are here to set up is a way for people not only to be at your celebration for your life, but to continue the celebration. In Africa, there is a saying, “When a man dies, they burn his library.” We are not burning your library. We are building it up.
 Les: In fact, put them in my casket with me. I tell my kids, “When I die, don’t let them do anything with me until you come down to the morgue to identify my body. To make sure that I’m gone, put a microphone in my hand. If I don’t sit up and say, ‘You’re gonna be hungry,’ you can say that Dad’s gone.” “How do you know he’s gone? Did you check his pulse?” “No, we put a microphone in his hand and his mouth was still closed.”
 Hugh: Oh man. You have touched the lives of so many people in person. Like you said, your YouTube and Facebook and videos that are online, people view them. When I say Les Brown to people, they are like, “Oh yeah, I saw that video.” That is one way to live on. But what I have discovered, I have known you for a number of years, and you mentioned CEO Space. I have had to follow you twice on stage.
 Les: You called me your opening act.
 Hugh: That’s right. You gave me a high five. I knew you’d either love it or hate it.
 Les: I thought you were quick on your feet. I saw another speaker, this former mayor of Detroit, Colman Young. He had to speak to a group of cosmetologists, all of these females. As he was coming up on the platform, he tripped and fell. Everybody gasped. When he got himself together and came up to the microphone, he said, “Obviously I have fallen for you.” I said, “You go, boy.” That was awesome.
 Hugh: In this last day, my appreciation for Les Brown has grown deeper, not only for your ability to recall tons of profound quotes that are relevant to what we are talking about, but also the depth of your knowledge, perception, and experience. You know what you’re talking about, and you have paid the price. I knew that. Now I really know that. I always believed it. I know because I had to follow you that you made me a better me.
 The first time you talked and left, and I had to come speak an hour or so later, I was getting dressed, and I was trembling. You had this group going, man. They cooled off and came back and were like, “Who is Hugh Ballou?” I looked in the mirror and I said to myself, “You’re going to go out there, and you’re going to be Hugh Ballou.” I had the inspiration from me from that session. Because you triggered something in me, and I gave myself permission to be me. You talked about that earlier. I can really understand, when you say helping people to access that greatness within them, which you talk about in a number of ways, I am paraphrasing my hearing it—I want to say to people I have known you for a while, I have known your content. I have a whole deeper level of appreciation. What this movement is about, you are creating a foundation to be able to provide resources for those people that are trapped. 80% return to prison, I heard you say.
 Les: Yes.
 Hugh: And we are talking about doing a teen program because they get into a cycle that is going to lead them there. There is the training to help people break the cycle, but you are also helping people not get in the cycle. You have some outstanding programs.
 Les: I want you to pause. We decide the number of prisons that we are going to build based upon the failure rate of African-American students in the third grade. Based upon that. I say if we can track failure, we can also track success. Rather than tracking people to find out what number of kids are going to drop out in the third grade, and that will tell us the number of prisons based on those numbers we extract to build, we can decide we are going to do an intervention here, and we will give them the tools that they need to transform their mindset; teach them how to become effective communicators; teach them how to develop collaborative, achievement-driven, supportive relationships; teach them how to use the Internet; to be taught or learn how to use money online and become entrepreneurs; and teach them how to dress like a prospect rather than a suspect.
 I was looking at television, and they had these police arrests live. They arrested this guy whose pants were below his butt. They said, “Pull those pants up.” There is a comedian years ago on television. He had a bag over his head. If you hear a guy with a bag over his head, that would be me right through the shopping mall with a big belt and popping these butts with these pants hanging so low. I don’t even have to say to pull your pants up because they will pull them up after that. That will be me. That is a level of insanity to be in that. My goal is to eradicate the age to addiction and incarceration death syndrome. The sagging started in the prisons.
 I had to speak in a prison a few months ago. I used to challenge young men to come on stage, and I would pay them $1,000 if they could do more pushups than me. At the time, I did 142 pushups consecutively.
 I went into this prison, and I asked these young guys who came into the room. They had the pants sagging. I said, “Hey, I’m an old man. Why do you wear the pants the way you do? What do you call that?” They said, “Sagging.” I said, “Sagging?” They said, “Yeah.” “How do you spell that?” “S-a-g-g-i-n.” I said, “Wow, saggin’.” If you can determine what a man will think, you will never have to concern yourself with what he will do. If you can make a man feel inferior and never have to compel him to seek an inferior status, for he will seek it himself, and if he can make a man feel justly an outcast, never have to order him to go to the back door, he will go without being told. If there is no door his very nature will demand one.
 I said, “Spell it again.” “S-a-g-g-i-n.” I said, “Good. Flip it. Spell it backwards.” They paused for a moment and said, “Whoa.” I said, “Yeah. That’s how you’re dressing. Yeah. That is your vision of yourself. Yeah. You think that’s cool? Yeah.” Let me tell you something. When I left there, there was no saggin’. They pulled their pants up. I never had to tell them.
 I believe that people are as they are because if we knew better, we would do better. We have created a culture that is an entertainment-driven culture. The average immigrant who comes to the United States has a four times’ greater chance of creating wealth, buying a home, and having their own business. Why? Even though they can’t speak the language and don’t know the culture, when they hit the ground, they are hungry. They came here to achieve. Immigrants have an achievement-driven mindset. We as Americans are spoiled. We are spoiled. Are we perfect? No. But there are things we have that we take for granted. I have traveled to over 40 countries. When I am coming through security, I say, “God bless America.” I am so glad to get back home. We are blessed. We live on the greatest country on the planet.
 My goal is to help people overcome the psychic disrepair that this culture has created in many cases, to help them to discover the truth of who they are that will empower them to make choices that will free them from living a small life, from infecting people with their mediocrity and begin to affect people with their greatness.
 Hugh: Powerful. Part of why I came and Tamara came was the brilliance that we see when you are influencing people on stage and in person. I heard you coaching people on the phone yesterday. It’s like they are the only person in the world. You give them such focus, love, and attention. I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t want to go on and be successful. You have a real, genuine interest in people. You actually care about- Everybody I’ve seen you with, you really care about them. You have a huge segment, and to be able to create sustainability, the Les Brown influence is the catalyst. What you’re creating is programs, mentoring, accountability, a whole system to help people stay on a track.
 Les: Yes. T.D. Jake said something I agree with. He said, “There is no success without successors.” We learn, we earn, and you pass it on. I am in this stage now to pass on the things that I have learned. I was on a plane, and they had to have an emergency landing. I became ill on the plane. I remember being on the floor after they pulled me out of my chair, and I was going in and out of consciousness. I remember saying to myself, “God, don’t let me die now around these strangers with the knowledge that I have to transform kids’ lives. Please give me some more time to do the work that I feel You have given me to do.” When we landed in Salt Lake City, Utah, and the emergency crew came on the plane with all of their instruments, they wanted to put a paddle on my chest and the guy said, “Hey, wait a minute. You, mister. I know you. You are that man who help people deliver their dreams. I got this job because of you.” He put the oxygen mask on me. “Be gentle with him as you take him up. He’s got people’s lives he must change. He can’t go now.”
 I mean, the tears begin to fall from my eyes. What are the chances? They say coincidence is God’s way of being anonymous. God was affirming to me that my work is not done, I have touched more people than I will ever know. He was talking to me as I was going out. He said, “How is Gladys doing?”
 I tell you, this has been an exciting journey. I have grown. People have blessed me in so many ways. I am here because there were people who believed in me when I didn’t believe in myself. I teach that sometimes you have to believe in somebody’s belief in you until your belief kicks in.
 Hugh: Yes, sir. My wife has a saying that somebody believed in her when I was nothing but potential, and I can say that, too.
 Les: Yes. Nothing but potential.
 Hugh: Tamara is here. You picked up the phone, called us, and said, “Let’s get together.” So we came. You are a man of influence. Leaders are a lot of things, but number one, leaders are influencers. You influence us as well as the rest.
 Tamara has a real high-level consulting career. She is leaving that to come and help put this together and make sure it is done right. Why did you say yes to being a part of this- I’m going to call it a movement, is that all right? Why, Tamara, did you say yes to this?
 Tamara: When we talk about Les Brown in my house, you should hear what me and my husband say. My husband is so supportive of me going with Les Brown, helping him with his vision. He says, “You’re not just doing this for Les Brown; you’re doing it for the world.” He has influence over the world. That is extremely important. I get excited about his vision, the things he wants to do.
 I am a mother of four. I understand the mindset and how important it is to change people’s mindsets, particularly in children. With my own children, I teach them who they really are. Sometimes it works against me. I have a 13-year-old son, and I promise you when he was about nine years old, my girls had gone out and he stayed home. I asked them, “Why don’t you take your brother with you?” They said that he is staying home today to work on his back flip. I said, “His back flip?” “Yeah, he is down in the basement working on his back flip.” I say, “He can’t do a back flip?” I go downstairs and ask him, “Son, what are you doing?” He said, “Don’t worry. I am not doing the back flips yet. I am working on it in my mind.” I said, “What?” He said, “You said if I put my mind to it, I can do anything.” You know what? You’re right. Let’s both of us put our minds on lessons before back flipping in the basement.
 Having four children and seeing their growth and actually inputting the things I put into them, I know how important it is to work on mindset. When Les talks about the mindset of children and incarcerated persons, I wholeheartedly believe in that, and I want to help flesh out his vision. You have a visionary, you have a details person, we work well together.
 Hugh: As part of my series, I interviewed Cal Turner. Cal Turner went to his executive team at Dollar General and said, “My dad founded this company. I got this job because of my genes, not because of my skill. But I have the vision. You got the skill. We’re going public.” They went public, and it was very successful. They sold it later, and everybody received a lot of rewards for that. They all stepped up because he let them step up because he was the influencer and the visionary. He said to me, “Hugh, leadership is about defining your gaps and finding really good people to fill them.” That is part of my leadership education program now. Cal has influenced me. He is older than us, just a little bit, but he is still out there sharing his wisdom.
 It’s not about you asking for help. It’s about you being a good leader, saying, “Here is my expertise.” What she just pointed out, you have the vision, you have the goods, and she has the details. I am pleased to be a part of this project. I am a NASCAR fan. They go faster when they draft together.
 Les: Absolutely. One of the things that leaders also do is they are perpetually engaged in the process of a talent hunt, looking for people who have talent, skills, resources, access, and credibility that you don’t have. We can’t do the things we want to do by ourselves. One goose can fly 75% further in formation with other geese that it could never fly by itself.
 Part of my training is I teach people to practice the principle of OQP, only quality people. Dr. Dennis said, “If you are the smartest one in your group, you need to get a new group.” I have seen Tamara. I know about her leadership skills, her integrity, her commitment, and she is a person who can get things done. She has propensity for detail. That is opposite of me. I am not a details person. My skill is in speaking and training people how to speak, but she knows how to put systems in to place, and complemented with your skills and knowledge, we will be able to build something that will outlive us. It will be part of the future we cannot see.
 That is why I am excited about this new chapter in my life, building something that will outlast me and will be here long after I’m gone, that my grandchildren and great-grandchildren—I have three great-grandsons. My goal is to build something that will continuously transform people’s lives. My children share this vision as well and work with me. I am excited about what we can produce working with you and Tamara and also with the skillset and mindset of Sherita Herring. I believe what we are putting together is going to be an incredible movement that people can see, believe in, sink their teeth into, that they want to support.
 We are going to train young people. My goal is to help young people develop a different kind of mindset, to reduce the bullying and suicide rates. Suicide among young people has increased over 300%. According to the Center for Disease out of Atlanta, over 3,000 people committed suicide last year in this country. More people died from suicide than traffic accidents. In the land of opportunity, where people try to outswim sharks to get here or outrun jeeps barefooted to get here, I believe that is the result of lack of hope. When there is hope in the future, that gives you power in the present. When you combine hope, methods, and collaborative achievement-driven supportive relationships, that when people take some hits, and we are all going to have some hits. We will help people to weather those storms. We will help people to have the wherewithal to weather those hits, and they will come from so many places.
 One doctor looked at me and said three words no one ever wants to hear, “You have cancer,” those three most feared words in seven languages. I asked, “Can you get me a second opinion?” He said, “Yes, and you are ugly, too.”
 Hugh: We did some drilling down on the sustainability, the continuity of this. We are going to invite people to be part of this tribe, to take on the programs. But you are going to train trainers to train other trainers. As far as the youth go, they are going to have peer-to-peer training. We are going to build a cadre of student leaders who will speak in a very different way to their peers. I think your pleasure is to start with those who are incarcerated because it is such a crisis and jails are full.
 Les: They are. When you look at the jails, the juvenile detention centers, the prisons at both the state and federal level, the numbers are staggering. When we look at the things we can do to give them the support and the tools they need, and the mindset that you are worth something- If you are in a prison, you are not even recognized by your name but your number. The system as it is is designed to destroy a person’s sense of self. They treat them like animals. They get out and act like animals. We can do better than that. We are the United States of America.
 When we look at young people today, and their behavior… I was on a bus to the airport. They have those shuttles. A lady got on with her mother, and her mother is a senior citizen. She was holding a small baby, and the mother was like eight months pregnant. You know those shuttles. They are rocky and not sturdy. If you are a pregnant woman, I got up and offered her my seat. She gladly sat down. There is a young guy sitting there. I said, “Brother, do you mind giving this lady your seat?” I was talking about the grandmother holding the baby. He said, “Hey, I paid my money just like she did,” and he wouldn’t get up. I just said, “Wow.” I felt bad for him.
 I said to myself, “When I see these young guys with pants below their butt or they are disrespectful and have no sense of decency, I get angry with myself. I need to multiply my self through other people so that someone else can get in their ear other than what they are listening to every day that does not give them a vision of themselves in the future and keeps them in a very limited mindset.” It’s all about mindset. He thinks, and so as he continues to think, so he remains.
 We spend no money on the county level, city level, state level on transforming mindsets. Not anything. That is where everything begins. We know that. They did a study on some top achievers around the world, over 3,000. They wanted to know what the common denominator was among them that caused them to reach their goals. They discovered that 85% of them reached their goals because of their attitude, 15% because of their aptitude. The training that we are going to provide is to train a trainer so that this is not surrounding and driven by a personality, but by systems and people who have a vision for our kids in the future, living in a global economy and operating at a higher level of consciousness where they can live a life of contribution as opposed to a life of liabilities.
 Hugh: James Allen said—you triggered a quote—in his book A Man Thinketh, “People want to change their circumstances and are unwilling to change themselves. They therefore remain bound.”
 Les: Yes, bound and stuck. That is where all the transformation takes place, in the mind. He also said something: You can’t destroy negative thoughts. They are like weeds. You can overpower them for a period of time, but once you stop doing the things that you do to get the clutter and the negative things out of your mind, then those negative thoughts come back with a vengeance and are stronger.
 When I had a talk show, King World paid me $5 million. I became so busy and caught up and preparing to be on television and going through the training to be before the camera that I stopped my ritual of reading 30-40 pages every day. I stopped my ritual of listening to Earl Nightingale and Jim Rowan and Zig Ziglar and Tony Robbins and other speakers every day because I was so busy preparing for television. Those negative thoughts came back. I forgot who I was. I was disconnected from my power. I just was not myself until after the program was cancelled. I took a hit. Things happened during that particular time, and I was not prepared to handle them. My best friend died. My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer and passed. I went through a divorce when I was married to Gladys. At that time, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. All of these things happened within 3-4 months. Had I been in my ritual, I would have been knocked down, but I would have been knocked out that I popped.
 One thing I encourage people to do is maintenance work to maintain that level of consciousness so that when things happen to you, you can handle it. We have the ability to handle it. Dr. Howard Thurman, who was a mentor to Martin Luther King Jr and Mahatma Gandhi, he wrote Deep is the Hunger and The Voice of the Genuine, “There is something in each and every one of us that waits and listens for the voice of the genuine in ourselves. It will be perhaps the only guide we ever have or hear. If we cannot hear it all of our life, our days will be spent on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” When you live your life from the inside out, you are literally saying, “Nobody, no circumstances, no situation will pull the strings of my mindset, my attitude, and how I feel about who I am and how I show up in life.” A profound thinker.
 Hugh: Part of the track that you are laying down is that nurture that helps people not only continue learning, but also to stay on the track. You talked about four programs that you have now and have more in mind. What is the background on why you developed those? What are the circumstances around them? They are powerful programs. EDITED AND PULLED (46:15)
 Les: I was a state legislator in Columbus, Ohio. I was elected to three terms. I became chairman of the Human Resource committee and the Education committee. I was a very controversial disc jockey, educating people on the things that maintain our detriment in the ‘80s, doing editorials, legislating against police brutality and the deadly use of force.
 When I was in the legislature, a guy named Clarence King—who had worked with Werner Erhard to create an organization called est—one of the great icons of the South development, he came and sat in the legislature to watch me. He had heard about me being an effective communicator, and he had gotten a contract under the Carter Administration called PIC, Private Industry Council, to train people on welfare, how to transition from welfare to working and being self-sufficient. But he could not get them to be open to that. He saw me and asked me, “Would you come down and talk to them so that you can get them in the mindset to be open to what I could provide for them? If they can do that, I can train them and transform their lives from the inside out, but I can’t get them to listen.”
 I came down and observed. He hired me as a consultant. My job was to come in first and train them. When I spoke at graduation, I went in a room three times, and I didn’t realize it was the same group of people. They were so transformed in how they were dressed, how clean-shaven they were. They looked like businesspeople. My God, I wanted to learn how to do that. When you speak, you only have 30 minutes to an hour, but I wanted to do more than just speak and leave. These people started doing the same thing they did before I came there.
 I wanted to be able to create an experience that people will be preeminently transformed for and have the tools and coaches in place to review, repeat, and reinforce the principles that change their mindset. So I became a student of this, me and my mentor Mike Williams who wrote the book called The Road to Your Best Stuff. I started studying and reading everybody that put anything out there dealing with the mind. Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, The Power of Positive thinking. Zig Ziglar, See You at the Top. Winston Churchill, The Truth is Incontrovertible. Alice Metack, AT the end there it is. The New Psycho-Cibernetics. The Secret of the Ages, Robert Collier. Earl Nightingale, The Strangest Secret in the World. I read these books. I listened to these recordings, and I decided I was going to master this.
 What I discovered from all these guys I studied, they had the complexion of connection. I had the complexion of rejection. So I could do all the things they told me to do, but I still wasn’t going to get that promotion. So I said, Wait a minute. I had to go back to the drawing board. How did Booker T. Washington and Frederick Douglass and Harriet Tubman- “Pray as if everything depends upon God, but work as if everything depends upon you.” I needed to know, What do you do if you are in a system that is stacked against you? How are you going to make it against all odds? I remember John H. Johnson in his book Succeeding Against the Odds said, “There is no defense against excellence that meets a pressing public need. When you have the complexion of rejection, you have to hold yourself to a higher standard, and you have to be committed to make it happen no matter what.”
 You told me an incredibly inspiring story that drives my life. In 1961, John F. Kennedy asked Wernher von Braun, “What will it take for us to beat the Russians to the moon?” He said five words, and he decided to call a news conference just on those five words. He decided to risk the embarrassment of the United States of America by proclaiming to the world that we are going to the moon in ten years. We did it in eight years. Those five words were, “The will to do it.” I believe that if you are faced with being laid off; if you are going through a divorce; if you have been diagnosed with a terminal illness; if we want to reduce the teenage pregnancy rate, the dropout rate, the recidivism rate, we must incorporate those five words, the will to do it. Everything I believe comes out of that.
 You are going to have some resistance. You will encounter some obstacles or setbacks, but if you have a will—where there is a will, there is a way. Jesus said, “Whoseever will, let him come.” If you have that mindset, there is an energy, there is a release of power and a presence in you that will allow you to overcome what appears to be insurmountable odds and do things that you don’t even know you can do right now.
 I’ve seen some things, and I’ve been around. I’ve seen a thing or two. So I know these principles work. They work with me. They work with my children; I use them as guinea pigs. And it’s exciting and fun.
 In this stage of my life, there are people who are listening right now who can hear me in their ears, but there are a few who can hear me in their heart. Because we all have an energy signature, there are certain people when you speak, they will hear you in their heart. If they heard Tamara or me, they will only hear us in their ears because of your energy signature, something about you. I believe that as we begin to duplicate ourselves and train people and get more voices and troops on the ground giving a message of hope and peace, and create a new conversation to create a different vision of how people see themselves and show up in life, that as we begin to increase those numbers, we will decrease the level of violence and mediocrity. We will decrease the things in our society that are maintaining our detriment. As we look at the words of Elsie Robinson, “Things happen around you and things happen to you, but the only things that really count are the things that happen in you.”
 When people are stirred up and ignited to become a force for God, to be an instrument, to operate out of a thinking that “the least that you do unto these my brethren, you do it also unto me,” and that you have, as Horace Mann said, “We should be ashamed to die until we have made some major contribution to humankind.” Operating out of that sense of oneness that drove Mrs. Rosa Parks to step up for herself and refuse to get up and give a white person her seat and was incarcerated, there was something in her that said, “I ought to do this on this particular day” and was a defining moment in history. We all have defining moments in our lives. Denzel Washington was in a movie and said, “There are things in life that happen, and it appears like slow motion. There is before this, and there is after this. After this, nothing will ever be the same again.”
 When I think about Mr. Lou I. Washington, I was in his class my junior year in school. He taught me to work out a problem on the board, and I said, “I’m not one of your students. I’m here to see MacArthur Stevens.” He said, “Doesn’t matter. Do what I’m telling you anyhow.” I said, “I can’t, sir.” The other kids started laughing. He said, “You see, he has a twin brother, Wesley. He’s smart. He’s the dumb twin.” I said, “I am, sir.” He came from behind his desk as they erupted in laughter. I was standing there, tears in my eyes with humiliation. He said, “Don’t ever say that again. Someone’s opinion of you does not have to become your reality.” That was a transforming moment in my life.
 Even though I’ve never known my birth parents, this guy became like my spiritual father. I told Tamara, “I need to meet your mama because you look so much like me.” But he taught me how to tell time. I wanted to be like him. I watched him. He was an eloquent speaker. He was a speech and drama teacher. He influenced me. My goal is- I have a lot of spiritual sons and daughters out there who have adopted me and I have adopted them. I adopted Mr. Washington.
 I remember eulogizing him and being at the celebration of his life. I watched his sons from an angle. When I spoke, they looked up at me, and none of his children spoke. We called him the great communicator. I realized something as I watched them: Even though he was their father, I knew a part of him that they never knew. I saw something in him that they never saw. That to me is one of the mysteries of life. How is it that people can be raised in a certain circumstance and end up dramatically different? Mr. Washington had thousands of kids, but he only had one Les Brown. So my goal before leaving the planet is: There are some other Les Browns out there who will do what I’ve done and will go even further, who will do more. They should do greater things. In this stage of my life, I am looking for people who are hungry to do the greater work.
 Hugh: Tamara and I have agreed to be the arms and legs for this movement. You are the influencer. You have created magical content, and we are going to put it in a form that is accessible for more people. We are going to help you put together a plan so that people know how they can support this. There are a lot of ways for people to support it. One way is to join your tribe. There are lots of ways we are going to roll out in time. We are going to roll this out gradually.
 The first stage is to get some funding in. We have a link. Is it the Les Brown Foundation?
 Tamara: Yes, it’s lesbrownfoundation.com and lesbrownfoundation.org. We have both.
 Hugh: Yes. We will have it set up to revert to a page so people can vote with dollars. They want to be a part of seeing this come to reality. The dollars are like putting gas in the car. It will make this run. There is no limit to the influence this movement can have and the impact it is going to have on our country. Just think of all those people who could be productive, who could get out of that cycle. We have done a whole lot of work in a short period of time. You are very clear. We were able to capture this vision and put some tactics around it and create a strategy that other people can understand. Is there a piece of this we haven’t touched on that you think we need to share with people?
 Tamara: Just listening to his vision and getting people excited about what we’re doing is super important. I relaly think we have done a good job of rolling it out. Visit the website, see how you can support it. I think we have done a great job telling it today.
 Les: I encourage people to go to the mindset and invest in this movement we are creating. It’s helping me to seal my deal with God. I remember saying, “God, if You help me get up off this floor,” when they have an emergency landing on a plane, they only do it if you are dead or dying. So I had a colonoscopy, and I got on a plane three days later and had internal bleeding I didn’t know I had. I remember when they said, “Is there a doctor on board?” and I had passed out in my chair and they laid me on the floor. They said that the guy came and checked my pulse and I had blood on the floor under me. His hands were soaked with blood from the internal bleeding that was coming out. He said, “We need to make an emergency landing.” They said, “It will only take us two and a half hours more to Detroit.” He said, “If you’re going to do that, then just strap him on the seat in the back and call the morgue and have them waiting. He won’t make it there.” That is when they made that emergency landing, and this guy who was a part of the emergency team said, “Hey, I know you, mister. You’re that man who helps people live their dreams. I got this job because of you.”
 But I promised God. I said, “If You help me get through this, I’m going to go back to where I started.” I started out training youth and training in prisons. Marysville Penitentiary and Ohio Penitentiary. Jails and prisons across the country. I said, “I promise I will do Your will.” This allows me to seal that deed. I’m still here. I made a deal with God. I gave Him my word. “If You help me overcome this, I will be used by You to make this world a better place until I take my last breath.”
 That’s what I want to do: make people feel good, laugh, know that I am not playing with a full deck, and make a difference, make a mark. We are very blessed to be in this country and to be a blessing to others. Naomi Brown, God took me out of my biological mother’s womb and placed me in the arms of my adopted mother. I am here because of two women. One gave me life, and the other one gave me love. So I am grateful to both of them. I feel that I was chosen for this. There is a time I couldn’t admit that. but I have had too many things, signs I have seen, that I know that a hand has been on my life. My steps have been ordered. Things I was encouraged to do and to learn. I don’t know where that came from. But I believe it’s a calling. Sometimes it takes you some time to recognize it. It’s a humbling experience, to feel that you have been chosen for something. So I am humbled because of that.
 Hugh: Les Brown.
 Les: Yes?
 Hugh: Thank you for saying yes to this.
 Les: Thank you and Tamara for saying yes to me and helping me do this. I appreciate you very much, more than you know. that’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it.
 Hugh: Thank y’all for being here.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/83a2425a-b329-11eb-9f0f-ab2078a645f6/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Announcing The Les Brown Foundation</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Interview with Les Brown
 Hugh: Hi, this is Hugh Ballou again, and this is a very special episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. I have over here my good friend, Les Brown. And Les is going to share with you this movement that he has initiated. Over here, my new friend Tamara Hartley. Les?
 Les: Yes?
 Hugh: We have been capturing ideas on the storyboards about this project that you have got in mind. Tell people what this project is.
 Les: It’s a project that is designed to make a greater impact on people on the general population and helping people to develop the tools, mindset, skillset, and collaborative, achievement-driven relationships that will allow them to create the greatest version of themselves. This is the era that the late Peter Drucker calls the Era of the 3 C’s: accelerated Change, overwhelming Complexity, and then Competition. With all the changes taking place with technology—according to the Department of Labor, over 20,000 people are losing their jobs every day, and 50% of the jobs that now exist can be done by robots—when we look at the advance of artificial intelligence and cheap labor abroad, people literally are now in an entrepreneur’s era, and they have to begin to expand their skillset so they will be able to handle what is required to be in this global economy where accelerated change is taking place.
 Hugh: It is so true. You see it happening every day.
 Les: Yes.
 Hugh: Every day, there is massive changes. You have a special passion for those people who are incarcerated and continue to be incarcerated. Talk about that.
 Les: We incarcerate more people in America than anyplace else in the world. We are making people bitter rather than better. I believe that we have to develop a higher level of consciousness on how we deal with people that have made some bad choices. My goal is, to people that are incarcerated, if prisons will allow me, to have my programs in the prison that will change their mindset, teach them how to become an effective communicator, how to develop positive, collaborative, achievement-driven, supportive relationships, how to earn money online as entrepreneurs, and how to dress like a prospect rather than a suspect.
 Hugh: A prospect rather than a suspect.
 Les: Yes, because the truth is, when people get a criminal background, they are not going to get any jobs. If they do, those jobs won’t pay much money. These individuals are not going to starve to death. They are going to find a way to feed themselves. As a result, that is why the recidivism rate is over 80%. If you had a factory that was producing products, and 80% of the products came back defective, you wouldn’t continue to use that process.
 There has been a slight change in how we are dealing with people that have made some bad choices in our society. Rather than throwing money at caging them, they are now looking at the possibility of helping them to learn how to read because over 76% of them are functional illiterates, giving them the skillset and giving them some support to help them to be reintegrated into society. If you go to jail, you can’t stay in public housing. If you apply for a job, you have to put down that you have a criminal background. Most employers will say, “We’ll call you. Don’t call us.” They are penalized throughout their lives, even after they have paid their debt to society. That’s not fair.
 My mother was once incarcerated. She sold home brew and moonshine and wrote numbers when she could no longer work at the M&amp;M cafeteria. That was a tough time. I became a man at ten years old as a result of that. Seven children in a house that no longer had the guardian, the person who took care of us. She adopted seven of us. She said that she made a commitment when she did that that we would never go to bed hungry, and we did not. We would always have a roof over our head, and we did have that. That was a gaff in our lives that was very painful and challenging.
 There are a lot of good people who made some bad choices, and I believe the world consists of the caught and the uncaught. I have made some bad decisions in my life. I did some stupid things when I was younger. Thank God I didn’t get caught. I believe that God was looking out for me because when I go to the bathroom, I leave the door open a crack. I do it all the time. What did Retta say? If you can’t do the time, don’t commit the crime.
 Hugh: Les Brown, you have this magical ability to put concepts into powerful words and to communicate it to people. I have been in groups that have just been so excited. I know that people write you and people speak to you about how you have inspired them. Something you said, and the content you gave them, gave them substance to get them out of where they were. It’s a mind shift, isn’t it?
 Les: No question. To put it in another context, you are expanding their vision of themselves. When people are going through a tough time, they have a tendency to expand and exaggerate the circumstances they are going through. When I speak, my goal is to expand your vision of yourself, to begin to see that there is greatness in you, that you are greater than your circumstances. You are better than anything you are going through now or in the future. You have to affirm to yourself.
 I have dealt with cancer on a regular basis for 21 years. My affirmation is: “This will not get the best of me.” I have to say this to myself, “I refuse to allow this to live in my life. I am stronger than this.” We have to, I believe, program ourselves and talk to ourselves to get through the stuff we are dealing with because things are going to happen to us. Forrest Gump is right, “Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re going to get.”
 Greater is He that is in us and the He that is in the world as a presence. There is a power that we all have within ourselves that we have not been trained how to access so that we can rise above what we are going through and live our lives from the inside out rather than living our lives from the outside in. You have to discipline yourself not to get caught up and buy into what I call the weapons of mass distractions. There are so many things that will distract you and tell you that you can’t handle this or deal with this. You have to harness your will. You have to say to yourself, “I am going to get through this.” When life has been kicking my butt, no matter how bad it is, I have an affirmation, “I am going to make it.”
 When I say that, I think about my mother because she went through some tough times, raising seven children that she didn’t give birth to. She had a third grade education, was a domestic worker, and had arthritis. She would say, “Arthur is bothering me.” I would ask her, “Mama, who is Arthur? You are always talking about Arthur.” She said, “Don’t worry. If you live long enough, you’ll find out.” I have Arthur in my right butt. In my behind. You know what I mean? On the right side.
 I was at a church service, and this lady was a healer. So I decided to get in line. She asked, “Can I help you?” I said, “Well, just touch me at the top of my head, and the healing power will go through my whole body.” She said, “I want direct impact.” I said, “Well, I have prostate cancer, and I have arthritis in my right butt.” She said, “Touching means the same.” She was not going to touch me in the groin.
 Hugh: Oh my.
 Les: This is real, I’m telling you. She gave me some prayer cards, which I still have in my underwear right now. I was going back and forth on the stage. I saw people laughing and looking past me. This was in Detroit. I asked, “What are you laughing at?” These prayer cards that I had paid $3 for had slipped out of my pants, and I had a line of prayer cards going across the stage. I said, “You all can laugh if you want.” I picked them up and put them right in my underwear. 21 years of kicking cancer’s butt.
 Hugh: Your whole life is changing the paradigm because of your determination and your vision for yourself.
 Les: Yes.
 Hugh: We are in Cleveland, Ohio. We spent a chunk of yesterday letting you download your vision. This is a foundation that you are starting, but it’s bigger than that. It’s more like a movement. You are talking about 80% return to prison. That is a crisis.
 Les: Yes.
 Hugh: And you’re doing something about it. This is an official notice. We haven’t named it, but you are launching the Les Brown Foundation that provides support. You are going to invite people to participate in this movement with you. We are in this room in Ohio, and we have had some really powerful conversations. This is a huge vision, Les. I have worked with charities for 31 years. This is the top of the heap. This is powerful. Why am I here, and why is Tamara here?
 Les: The two of you have a skillset that I don’t have. You are very knowledgeable and experienced in this area of how to set up a nonprofit, along with Sherita Herring. Part of what I want to do, two people that I know who have integrity and experience and the skillset and other relationships that I don’t have, and that can teach me. I have asked for help, not because I am weak, but because I want to remain strong. Ask for help, but don’t stop until you get it.
 I could have gone on to set up a nonprofit; a lot of people do that. But I wanted to do it in the right way. I wanted to have a system and a level of transparency. When people contribute to the work that we are going to be doing, they will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the money is going where we said it will go. I believe that when you are going to do something of this magnitude, you need people in your corner that can help you do that, that know things that you don’t know, and can set it up the right way so you can accelerate your level of success. You and Tamara are two individuals I strongly believe in. I met you at CEO Space.
 When we look at putting something together that will outlast you—to me, greatness is living your life in such a way that the things that you create, as one Russian author said, will not be undone or destroyed after you’re gone. We are only here for a limited amount of time. I had a plan of doing an event with Wayne Dyer, and we talked about doing a PBS Special. We put it off for several months. He finally called me and said, “I am coming to Orlando. Let’s get together and do this PBS special.” Two days later, he had a massive heart attack.
 We have to seize the moment. I am 72. I look much younger because I don’t believe in gray hair. There is no shade in my gait. I travel around with mascara in my pocket. If any gray hair comes out, I will touch it up in a heartbeat. The only three gray hairs that show up are in my eyelashes because I haven’t figured out how to do that yet. But I’m thinking about working on getting me some Mary Kay and hooking this stuff up.
 My goal now is about leaving a legacy. What will be different because I came this way? I have been thinking about that as a 21-year cancer conqueror, because of God’s grace and mercy. My goal is to live a life that they could say, This guy, because of his passion and his commitment to help transform people’s lives, like somebody transformed his life, he made an impact. There are people as a result of going through his training or hearing him speak that they were never the same as a result of being in his presence. I want to make my life mean something. Most people after they die, about two or three weeks later, because their lives were so inconsequential, they just worked a job, paid the bills, and took care of the family. One day, they were out of here. I don’t want it like that.
 I remember talking to my daughter on the telephone, and she said, “Dad, I am here in traffic, and there is a policeman on a motorcycle in the middle of the road. He is obviously stopping traffic for a funeral procession to come by.” I said, “Okay.” She said, “I think I’m going to be here a minute.” All of a sudden, she said, “Whoa, wow.” I said, “What’s wrong?” She said, “Nothing’s wrong. A hearse just went through. Only one car was behind it. When I die, Dad, I want, because of how I live my life, there to be a long procession of cars and people coming out to celebrate my life, that I was here in the difference I made for them.” I said, “I understand that.”
 That is what I want. When I go, people will come out to celebrate my life because I did some good stuff. As evil prevails, a lot of good men and women do nothing. There is a lot of good that all of us can do.
 But one of the things that I think about often, a lady that flew over from Australia for me to train her in speaking, I asked her, “Why did you select me? There are a lot of people all over the world.” She said, “I saw you on YouTube speaking in the Georgia Dome, and you speak from your heart. Therefore, I want to learn how to speak from the heart as well.” I said, “I can teach you how to do that.”
 Then I stopped and said, “What is your why? What is the reason you want to discover your power voice?” She said, “When I saw Dylann Roof, a young white kid who went to an African-American church and killed nine black people, “I felt there should be another person on his side standing before the judge. He was not born with that level of hatred in him. Somebody was in his ear. Somebody twisted his mind.” Then she paused and said, “I believe the world is as it is not because a few people are violent. I believe the world is as it is because too many people are silent.” When she said that, that really grabbed me. That gave me goose bumps.
 I want my voice and the voices of the people I train to be a chorus to create a different kind of mindset on the planet. I believe that can be done in our lifetime.
 Hugh: What we are here to set up is a way for people not only to be at your celebration for your life, but to continue the celebration. In Africa, there is a saying, “When a man dies, they burn his library.” We are not burning your library. We are building it up.
 Les: In fact, put them in my casket with me. I tell my kids, “When I die, don’t let them do anything with me until you come down to the morgue to identify my body. To make sure that I’m gone, put a microphone in my hand. If I don’t sit up and say, ‘You’re gonna be hungry,’ you can say that Dad’s gone.” “How do you know he’s gone? Did you check his pulse?” “No, we put a microphone in his hand and his mouth was still closed.”
 Hugh: Oh man. You have touched the lives of so many people in person. Like you said, your YouTube and Facebook and videos that are online, people view them. When I say Les Brown to people, they are like, “Oh yeah, I saw that video.” That is one way to live on. But what I have discovered, I have known you for a number of years, and you mentioned CEO Space. I have had to follow you twice on stage.
 Les: You called me your opening act.
 Hugh: That’s right. You gave me a high five. I knew you’d either love it or hate it.
 Les: I thought you were quick on your feet. I saw another speaker, this former mayor of Detroit, Colman Young. He had to speak to a group of cosmetologists, all of these females. As he was coming up on the platform, he tripped and fell. Everybody gasped. When he got himself together and came up to the microphone, he said, “Obviously I have fallen for you.” I said, “You go, boy.” That was awesome.
 Hugh: In this last day, my appreciation for Les Brown has grown deeper, not only for your ability to recall tons of profound quotes that are relevant to what we are talking about, but also the depth of your knowledge, perception, and experience. You know what you’re talking about, and you have paid the price. I knew that. Now I really know that. I always believed it. I know because I had to follow you that you made me a better me.
 The first time you talked and left, and I had to come speak an hour or so later, I was getting dressed, and I was trembling. You had this group going, man. They cooled off and came back and were like, “Who is Hugh Ballou?” I looked in the mirror and I said to myself, “You’re going to go out there, and you’re going to be Hugh Ballou.” I had the inspiration from me from that session. Because you triggered something in me, and I gave myself permission to be me. You talked about that earlier. I can really understand, when you say helping people to access that greatness within them, which you talk about in a number of ways, I am paraphrasing my hearing it—I want to say to people I have known you for a while, I have known your content. I have a whole deeper level of appreciation. What this movement is about, you are creating a foundation to be able to provide resources for those people that are trapped. 80% return to prison, I heard you say.
 Les: Yes.
 Hugh: And we are talking about doing a teen program because they get into a cycle that is going to lead them there. There is the training to help people break the cycle, but you are also helping people not get in the cycle. You have some outstanding programs.
 Les: I want you to pause. We decide the number of prisons that we are going to build based upon the failure rate of African-American students in the third grade. Based upon that. I say if we can track failure, we can also track success. Rather than tracking people to find out what number of kids are going to drop out in the third grade, and that will tell us the number of prisons based on those numbers we extract to build, we can decide we are going to do an intervention here, and we will give them the tools that they need to transform their mindset; teach them how to become effective communicators; teach them how to develop collaborative, achievement-driven, supportive relationships; teach them how to use the Internet; to be taught or learn how to use money online and become entrepreneurs; and teach them how to dress like a prospect rather than a suspect.
 I was looking at television, and they had these police arrests live. They arrested this guy whose pants were below his butt. They said, “Pull those pants up.” There is a comedian years ago on television. He had a bag over his head. If you hear a guy with a bag over his head, that would be me right through the shopping mall with a big belt and popping these butts with these pants hanging so low. I don’t even have to say to pull your pants up because they will pull them up after that. That will be me. That is a level of insanity to be in that. My goal is to eradicate the age to addiction and incarceration death syndrome. The sagging started in the prisons.
 I had to speak in a prison a few months ago. I used to challenge young men to come on stage, and I would pay them $1,000 if they could do more pushups than me. At the time, I did 142 pushups consecutively.
 I went into this prison, and I asked these young guys who came into the room. They had the pants sagging. I said, “Hey, I’m an old man. Why do you wear the pants the way you do? What do you call that?” They said, “Sagging.” I said, “Sagging?” They said, “Yeah.” “How do you spell that?” “S-a-g-g-i-n.” I said, “Wow, saggin’.” If you can determine what a man will think, you will never have to concern yourself with what he will do. If you can make a man feel inferior and never have to compel him to seek an inferior status, for he will seek it himself, and if he can make a man feel justly an outcast, never have to order him to go to the back door, he will go without being told. If there is no door his very nature will demand one.
 I said, “Spell it again.” “S-a-g-g-i-n.” I said, “Good. Flip it. Spell it backwards.” They paused for a moment and said, “Whoa.” I said, “Yeah. That’s how you’re dressing. Yeah. That is your vision of yourself. Yeah. You think that’s cool? Yeah.” Let me tell you something. When I left there, there was no saggin’. They pulled their pants up. I never had to tell them.
 I believe that people are as they are because if we knew better, we would do better. We have created a culture that is an entertainment-driven culture. The average immigrant who comes to the United States has a four times’ greater chance of creating wealth, buying a home, and having their own business. Why? Even though they can’t speak the language and don’t know the culture, when they hit the ground, they are hungry. They came here to achieve. Immigrants have an achievement-driven mindset. We as Americans are spoiled. We are spoiled. Are we perfect? No. But there are things we have that we take for granted. I have traveled to over 40 countries. When I am coming through security, I say, “God bless America.” I am so glad to get back home. We are blessed. We live on the greatest country on the planet.
 My goal is to help people overcome the psychic disrepair that this culture has created in many cases, to help them to discover the truth of who they are that will empower them to make choices that will free them from living a small life, from infecting people with their mediocrity and begin to affect people with their greatness.
 Hugh: Powerful. Part of why I came and Tamara came was the brilliance that we see when you are influencing people on stage and in person. I heard you coaching people on the phone yesterday. It’s like they are the only person in the world. You give them such focus, love, and attention. I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t want to go on and be successful. You have a real, genuine interest in people. You actually care about- Everybody I’ve seen you with, you really care about them. You have a huge segment, and to be able to create sustainability, the Les Brown influence is the catalyst. What you’re creating is programs, mentoring, accountability, a whole system to help people stay on a track.
 Les: Yes. T.D. Jake said something I agree with. He said, “There is no success without successors.” We learn, we earn, and you pass it on. I am in this stage now to pass on the things that I have learned. I was on a plane, and they had to have an emergency landing. I became ill on the plane. I remember being on the floor after they pulled me out of my chair, and I was going in and out of consciousness. I remember saying to myself, “God, don’t let me die now around these strangers with the knowledge that I have to transform kids’ lives. Please give me some more time to do the work that I feel You have given me to do.” When we landed in Salt Lake City, Utah, and the emergency crew came on the plane with all of their instruments, they wanted to put a paddle on my chest and the guy said, “Hey, wait a minute. You, mister. I know you. You are that man who help people deliver their dreams. I got this job because of you.” He put the oxygen mask on me. “Be gentle with him as you take him up. He’s got people’s lives he must change. He can’t go now.”
 I mean, the tears begin to fall from my eyes. What are the chances? They say coincidence is God’s way of being anonymous. God was affirming to me that my work is not done, I have touched more people than I will ever know. He was talking to me as I was going out. He said, “How is Gladys doing?”
 I tell you, this has been an exciting journey. I have grown. People have blessed me in so many ways. I am here because there were people who believed in me when I didn’t believe in myself. I teach that sometimes you have to believe in somebody’s belief in you until your belief kicks in.
 Hugh: Yes, sir. My wife has a saying that somebody believed in her when I was nothing but potential, and I can say that, too.
 Les: Yes. Nothing but potential.
 Hugh: Tamara is here. You picked up the phone, called us, and said, “Let’s get together.” So we came. You are a man of influence. Leaders are a lot of things, but number one, leaders are influencers. You influence us as well as the rest.
 Tamara has a real high-level consulting career. She is leaving that to come and help put this together and make sure it is done right. Why did you say yes to being a part of this- I’m going to call it a movement, is that all right? Why, Tamara, did you say yes to this?
 Tamara: When we talk about Les Brown in my house, you should hear what me and my husband say. My husband is so supportive of me going with Les Brown, helping him with his vision. He says, “You’re not just doing this for Les Brown; you’re doing it for the world.” He has influence over the world. That is extremely important. I get excited about his vision, the things he wants to do.
 I am a mother of four. I understand the mindset and how important it is to change people’s mindsets, particularly in children. With my own children, I teach them who they really are. Sometimes it works against me. I have a 13-year-old son, and I promise you when he was about nine years old, my girls had gone out and he stayed home. I asked them, “Why don’t you take your brother with you?” They said that he is staying home today to work on his back flip. I said, “His back flip?” “Yeah, he is down in the basement working on his back flip.” I say, “He can’t do a back flip?” I go downstairs and ask him, “Son, what are you doing?” He said, “Don’t worry. I am not doing the back flips yet. I am working on it in my mind.” I said, “What?” He said, “You said if I put my mind to it, I can do anything.” You know what? You’re right. Let’s both of us put our minds on lessons before back flipping in the basement.
 Having four children and seeing their growth and actually inputting the things I put into them, I know how important it is to work on mindset. When Les talks about the mindset of children and incarcerated persons, I wholeheartedly believe in that, and I want to help flesh out his vision. You have a visionary, you have a details person, we work well together.
 Hugh: As part of my series, I interviewed Cal Turner. Cal Turner went to his executive team at Dollar General and said, “My dad founded this company. I got this job because of my genes, not because of my skill. But I have the vision. You got the skill. We’re going public.” They went public, and it was very successful. They sold it later, and everybody received a lot of rewards for that. They all stepped up because he let them step up because he was the influencer and the visionary. He said to me, “Hugh, leadership is about defining your gaps and finding really good people to fill them.” That is part of my leadership education program now. Cal has influenced me. He is older than us, just a little bit, but he is still out there sharing his wisdom.
 It’s not about you asking for help. It’s about you being a good leader, saying, “Here is my expertise.” What she just pointed out, you have the vision, you have the goods, and she has the details. I am pleased to be a part of this project. I am a NASCAR fan. They go faster when they draft together.
 Les: Absolutely. One of the things that leaders also do is they are perpetually engaged in the process of a talent hunt, looking for people who have talent, skills, resources, access, and credibility that you don’t have. We can’t do the things we want to do by ourselves. One goose can fly 75% further in formation with other geese that it could never fly by itself.
 Part of my training is I teach people to practice the principle of OQP, only quality people. Dr. Dennis said, “If you are the smartest one in your group, you need to get a new group.” I have seen Tamara. I know about her leadership skills, her integrity, her commitment, and she is a person who can get things done. She has propensity for detail. That is opposite of me. I am not a details person. My skill is in speaking and training people how to speak, but she knows how to put systems in to place, and complemented with your skills and knowledge, we will be able to build something that will outlive us. It will be part of the future we cannot see.
 That is why I am excited about this new chapter in my life, building something that will outlast me and will be here long after I’m gone, that my grandchildren and great-grandchildren—I have three great-grandsons. My goal is to build something that will continuously transform people’s lives. My children share this vision as well and work with me. I am excited about what we can produce working with you and Tamara and also with the skillset and mindset of Sherita Herring. I believe what we are putting together is going to be an incredible movement that people can see, believe in, sink their teeth into, that they want to support.
 We are going to train young people. My goal is to help young people develop a different kind of mindset, to reduce the bullying and suicide rates. Suicide among young people has increased over 300%. According to the Center for Disease out of Atlanta, over 3,000 people committed suicide last year in this country. More people died from suicide than traffic accidents. In the land of opportunity, where people try to outswim sharks to get here or outrun jeeps barefooted to get here, I believe that is the result of lack of hope. When there is hope in the future, that gives you power in the present. When you combine hope, methods, and collaborative achievement-driven supportive relationships, that when people take some hits, and we are all going to have some hits. We will help people to weather those storms. We will help people to have the wherewithal to weather those hits, and they will come from so many places.
 One doctor looked at me and said three words no one ever wants to hear, “You have cancer,” those three most feared words in seven languages. I asked, “Can you get me a second opinion?” He said, “Yes, and you are ugly, too.”
 Hugh: We did some drilling down on the sustainability, the continuity of this. We are going to invite people to be part of this tribe, to take on the programs. But you are going to train trainers to train other trainers. As far as the youth go, they are going to have peer-to-peer training. We are going to build a cadre of student leaders who will speak in a very different way to their peers. I think your pleasure is to start with those who are incarcerated because it is such a crisis and jails are full.
 Les: They are. When you look at the jails, the juvenile detention centers, the prisons at both the state and federal level, the numbers are staggering. When we look at the things we can do to give them the support and the tools they need, and the mindset that you are worth something- If you are in a prison, you are not even recognized by your name but your number. The system as it is is designed to destroy a person’s sense of self. They treat them like animals. They get out and act like animals. We can do better than that. We are the United States of America.
 When we look at young people today, and their behavior… I was on a bus to the airport. They have those shuttles. A lady got on with her mother, and her mother is a senior citizen. She was holding a small baby, and the mother was like eight months pregnant. You know those shuttles. They are rocky and not sturdy. If you are a pregnant woman, I got up and offered her my seat. She gladly sat down. There is a young guy sitting there. I said, “Brother, do you mind giving this lady your seat?” I was talking about the grandmother holding the baby. He said, “Hey, I paid my money just like she did,” and he wouldn’t get up. I just said, “Wow.” I felt bad for him.
 I said to myself, “When I see these young guys with pants below their butt or they are disrespectful and have no sense of decency, I get angry with myself. I need to multiply my self through other people so that someone else can get in their ear other than what they are listening to every day that does not give them a vision of themselves in the future and keeps them in a very limited mindset.” It’s all about mindset. He thinks, and so as he continues to think, so he remains.
 We spend no money on the county level, city level, state level on transforming mindsets. Not anything. That is where everything begins. We know that. They did a study on some top achievers around the world, over 3,000. They wanted to know what the common denominator was among them that caused them to reach their goals. They discovered that 85% of them reached their goals because of their attitude, 15% because of their aptitude. The training that we are going to provide is to train a trainer so that this is not surrounding and driven by a personality, but by systems and people who have a vision for our kids in the future, living in a global economy and operating at a higher level of consciousness where they can live a life of contribution as opposed to a life of liabilities.
 Hugh: James Allen said—you triggered a quote—in his book A Man Thinketh, “People want to change their circumstances and are unwilling to change themselves. They therefore remain bound.”
 Les: Yes, bound and stuck. That is where all the transformation takes place, in the mind. He also said something: You can’t destroy negative thoughts. They are like weeds. You can overpower them for a period of time, but once you stop doing the things that you do to get the clutter and the negative things out of your mind, then those negative thoughts come back with a vengeance and are stronger.
 When I had a talk show, King World paid me $5 million. I became so busy and caught up and preparing to be on television and going through the training to be before the camera that I stopped my ritual of reading 30-40 pages every day. I stopped my ritual of listening to Earl Nightingale and Jim Rowan and Zig Ziglar and Tony Robbins and other speakers every day because I was so busy preparing for television. Those negative thoughts came back. I forgot who I was. I was disconnected from my power. I just was not myself until after the program was cancelled. I took a hit. Things happened during that particular time, and I was not prepared to handle them. My best friend died. My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer and passed. I went through a divorce when I was married to Gladys. At that time, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. All of these things happened within 3-4 months. Had I been in my ritual, I would have been knocked down, but I would have been knocked out that I popped.
 One thing I encourage people to do is maintenance work to maintain that level of consciousness so that when things happen to you, you can handle it. We have the ability to handle it. Dr. Howard Thurman, who was a mentor to Martin Luther King Jr and Mahatma Gandhi, he wrote Deep is the Hunger and The Voice of the Genuine, “There is something in each and every one of us that waits and listens for the voice of the genuine in ourselves. It will be perhaps the only guide we ever have or hear. If we cannot hear it all of our life, our days will be spent on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” When you live your life from the inside out, you are literally saying, “Nobody, no circumstances, no situation will pull the strings of my mindset, my attitude, and how I feel about who I am and how I show up in life.” A profound thinker.
 Hugh: Part of the track that you are laying down is that nurture that helps people not only continue learning, but also to stay on the track. You talked about four programs that you have now and have more in mind. What is the background on why you developed those? What are the circumstances around them? They are powerful programs. EDITED AND PULLED (46:15)
 Les: I was a state legislator in Columbus, Ohio. I was elected to three terms. I became chairman of the Human Resource committee and the Education committee. I was a very controversial disc jockey, educating people on the things that maintain our detriment in the ‘80s, doing editorials, legislating against police brutality and the deadly use of force.
 When I was in the legislature, a guy named Clarence King—who had worked with Werner Erhard to create an organization called est—one of the great icons of the South development, he came and sat in the legislature to watch me. He had heard about me being an effective communicator, and he had gotten a contract under the Carter Administration called PIC, Private Industry Council, to train people on welfare, how to transition from welfare to working and being self-sufficient. But he could not get them to be open to that. He saw me and asked me, “Would you come down and talk to them so that you can get them in the mindset to be open to what I could provide for them? If they can do that, I can train them and transform their lives from the inside out, but I can’t get them to listen.”
 I came down and observed. He hired me as a consultant. My job was to come in first and train them. When I spoke at graduation, I went in a room three times, and I didn’t realize it was the same group of people. They were so transformed in how they were dressed, how clean-shaven they were. They looked like businesspeople. My God, I wanted to learn how to do that. When you speak, you only have 30 minutes to an hour, but I wanted to do more than just speak and leave. These people started doing the same thing they did before I came there.
 I wanted to be able to create an experience that people will be preeminently transformed for and have the tools and coaches in place to review, repeat, and reinforce the principles that change their mindset. So I became a student of this, me and my mentor Mike Williams who wrote the book called The Road to Your Best Stuff. I started studying and reading everybody that put anything out there dealing with the mind. Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, The Power of Positive thinking. Zig Ziglar, See You at the Top. Winston Churchill, The Truth is Incontrovertible. Alice Metack, AT the end there it is. The New Psycho-Cibernetics. The Secret of the Ages, Robert Collier. Earl Nightingale, The Strangest Secret in the World. I read these books. I listened to these recordings, and I decided I was going to master this.
 What I discovered from all these guys I studied, they had the complexion of connection. I had the complexion of rejection. So I could do all the things they told me to do, but I still wasn’t going to get that promotion. So I said, Wait a minute. I had to go back to the drawing board. How did Booker T. Washington and Frederick Douglass and Harriet Tubman- “Pray as if everything depends upon God, but work as if everything depends upon you.” I needed to know, What do you do if you are in a system that is stacked against you? How are you going to make it against all odds? I remember John H. Johnson in his book Succeeding Against the Odds said, “There is no defense against excellence that meets a pressing public need. When you have the complexion of rejection, you have to hold yourself to a higher standard, and you have to be committed to make it happen no matter what.”
 You told me an incredibly inspiring story that drives my life. In 1961, John F. Kennedy asked Wernher von Braun, “What will it take for us to beat the Russians to the moon?” He said five words, and he decided to call a news conference just on those five words. He decided to risk the embarrassment of the United States of America by proclaiming to the world that we are going to the moon in ten years. We did it in eight years. Those five words were, “The will to do it.” I believe that if you are faced with being laid off; if you are going through a divorce; if you have been diagnosed with a terminal illness; if we want to reduce the teenage pregnancy rate, the dropout rate, the recidivism rate, we must incorporate those five words, the will to do it. Everything I believe comes out of that.
 You are going to have some resistance. You will encounter some obstacles or setbacks, but if you have a will—where there is a will, there is a way. Jesus said, “Whoseever will, let him come.” If you have that mindset, there is an energy, there is a release of power and a presence in you that will allow you to overcome what appears to be insurmountable odds and do things that you don’t even know you can do right now.
 I’ve seen some things, and I’ve been around. I’ve seen a thing or two. So I know these principles work. They work with me. They work with my children; I use them as guinea pigs. And it’s exciting and fun.
 In this stage of my life, there are people who are listening right now who can hear me in their ears, but there are a few who can hear me in their heart. Because we all have an energy signature, there are certain people when you speak, they will hear you in their heart. If they heard Tamara or me, they will only hear us in their ears because of your energy signature, something about you. I believe that as we begin to duplicate ourselves and train people and get more voices and troops on the ground giving a message of hope and peace, and create a new conversation to create a different vision of how people see themselves and show up in life, that as we begin to increase those numbers, we will decrease the level of violence and mediocrity. We will decrease the things in our society that are maintaining our detriment. As we look at the words of Elsie Robinson, “Things happen around you and things happen to you, but the only things that really count are the things that happen in you.”
 When people are stirred up and ignited to become a force for God, to be an instrument, to operate out of a thinking that “the least that you do unto these my brethren, you do it also unto me,” and that you have, as Horace Mann said, “We should be ashamed to die until we have made some major contribution to humankind.” Operating out of that sense of oneness that drove Mrs. Rosa Parks to step up for herself and refuse to get up and give a white person her seat and was incarcerated, there was something in her that said, “I ought to do this on this particular day” and was a defining moment in history. We all have defining moments in our lives. Denzel Washington was in a movie and said, “There are things in life that happen, and it appears like slow motion. There is before this, and there is after this. After this, nothing will ever be the same again.”
 When I think about Mr. Lou I. Washington, I was in his class my junior year in school. He taught me to work out a problem on the board, and I said, “I’m not one of your students. I’m here to see MacArthur Stevens.” He said, “Doesn’t matter. Do what I’m telling you anyhow.” I said, “I can’t, sir.” The other kids started laughing. He said, “You see, he has a twin brother, Wesley. He’s smart. He’s the dumb twin.” I said, “I am, sir.” He came from behind his desk as they erupted in laughter. I was standing there, tears in my eyes with humiliation. He said, “Don’t ever say that again. Someone’s opinion of you does not have to become your reality.” That was a transforming moment in my life.
 Even though I’ve never known my birth parents, this guy became like my spiritual father. I told Tamara, “I need to meet your mama because you look so much like me.” But he taught me how to tell time. I wanted to be like him. I watched him. He was an eloquent speaker. He was a speech and drama teacher. He influenced me. My goal is- I have a lot of spiritual sons and daughters out there who have adopted me and I have adopted them. I adopted Mr. Washington.
 I remember eulogizing him and being at the celebration of his life. I watched his sons from an angle. When I spoke, they looked up at me, and none of his children spoke. We called him the great communicator. I realized something as I watched them: Even though he was their father, I knew a part of him that they never knew. I saw something in him that they never saw. That to me is one of the mysteries of life. How is it that people can be raised in a certain circumstance and end up dramatically different? Mr. Washington had thousands of kids, but he only had one Les Brown. So my goal before leaving the planet is: There are some other Les Browns out there who will do what I’ve done and will go even further, who will do more. They should do greater things. In this stage of my life, I am looking for people who are hungry to do the greater work.
 Hugh: Tamara and I have agreed to be the arms and legs for this movement. You are the influencer. You have created magical content, and we are going to put it in a form that is accessible for more people. We are going to help you put together a plan so that people know how they can support this. There are a lot of ways for people to support it. One way is to join your tribe. There are lots of ways we are going to roll out in time. We are going to roll this out gradually.
 The first stage is to get some funding in. We have a link. Is it the Les Brown Foundation?
 Tamara: Yes, it’s lesbrownfoundation.com and lesbrownfoundation.org. We have both.
 Hugh: Yes. We will have it set up to revert to a page so people can vote with dollars. They want to be a part of seeing this come to reality. The dollars are like putting gas in the car. It will make this run. There is no limit to the influence this movement can have and the impact it is going to have on our country. Just think of all those people who could be productive, who could get out of that cycle. We have done a whole lot of work in a short period of time. You are very clear. We were able to capture this vision and put some tactics around it and create a strategy that other people can understand. Is there a piece of this we haven’t touched on that you think we need to share with people?
 Tamara: Just listening to his vision and getting people excited about what we’re doing is super important. I relaly think we have done a good job of rolling it out. Visit the website, see how you can support it. I think we have done a great job telling it today.
 Les: I encourage people to go to the mindset and invest in this movement we are creating. It’s helping me to seal my deal with God. I remember saying, “God, if You help me get up off this floor,” when they have an emergency landing on a plane, they only do it if you are dead or dying. So I had a colonoscopy, and I got on a plane three days later and had internal bleeding I didn’t know I had. I remember when they said, “Is there a doctor on board?” and I had passed out in my chair and they laid me on the floor. They said that the guy came and checked my pulse and I had blood on the floor under me. His hands were soaked with blood from the internal bleeding that was coming out. He said, “We need to make an emergency landing.” They said, “It will only take us two and a half hours more to Detroit.” He said, “If you’re going to do that, then just strap him on the seat in the back and call the morgue and have them waiting. He won’t make it there.” That is when they made that emergency landing, and this guy who was a part of the emergency team said, “Hey, I know you, mister. You’re that man who helps people live their dreams. I got this job because of you.”
 But I promised God. I said, “If You help me get through this, I’m going to go back to where I started.” I started out training youth and training in prisons. Marysville Penitentiary and Ohio Penitentiary. Jails and prisons across the country. I said, “I promise I will do Your will.” This allows me to seal that deed. I’m still here. I made a deal with God. I gave Him my word. “If You help me overcome this, I will be used by You to make this world a better place until I take my last breath.”
 That’s what I want to do: make people feel good, laugh, know that I am not playing with a full deck, and make a difference, make a mark. We are very blessed to be in this country and to be a blessing to others. Naomi Brown, God took me out of my biological mother’s womb and placed me in the arms of my adopted mother. I am here because of two women. One gave me life, and the other one gave me love. So I am grateful to both of them. I feel that I was chosen for this. There is a time I couldn’t admit that. but I have had too many things, signs I have seen, that I know that a hand has been on my life. My steps have been ordered. Things I was encouraged to do and to learn. I don’t know where that came from. But I believe it’s a calling. Sometimes it takes you some time to recognize it. It’s a humbling experience, to feel that you have been chosen for something. So I am humbled because of that.
 Hugh: Les Brown.
 Les: Yes?
 Hugh: Thank you for saying yes to this.
 Les: Thank you and Tamara for saying yes to me and helping me do this. I appreciate you very much, more than you know. that’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it.
 Hugh: Thank y’all for being here.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Interview with Les Brown</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Hi, this is Hugh Ballou again, and this is a very special episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. I have over here my good friend, Les Brown. And Les is going to share with you this movement that he has initiated. Over here, my new friend Tamara Hartley. Les?</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> Yes?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have been capturing ideas on the storyboards about this project that you have got in mind. Tell people what this project is.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> It’s a project that is designed to make a greater impact on people on the general population and helping people to develop the tools, mindset, skillset, and collaborative, achievement-driven relationships that will allow them to create the greatest version of themselves. This is the era that the late Peter Drucker calls the Era of the 3 C’s: accelerated Change, overwhelming Complexity, and then Competition. With all the changes taking place with technology—according to the Department of Labor, over 20,000 people are losing their jobs every day, and 50% of the jobs that now exist can be done by robots—when we look at the advance of artificial intelligence and cheap labor abroad, people literally are now in an entrepreneur’s era, and they have to begin to expand their skillset so they will be able to handle what is required to be in this global economy where accelerated change is taking place.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It is so true. You see it happening every day.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Every day, there is massive changes. You have a special passion for those people who are incarcerated and continue to be incarcerated. Talk about that.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> We incarcerate more people in America than anyplace else in the world. We are making people bitter rather than better. I believe that we have to develop a higher level of consciousness on how we deal with people that have made some bad choices. My goal is, to people that are incarcerated, if prisons will allow me, to have my programs in the prison that will change their mindset, teach them how to become an effective communicator, how to develop positive, collaborative, achievement-driven, supportive relationships, how to earn money online as entrepreneurs, and how to dress like a prospect rather than a suspect.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A prospect rather than a suspect.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> Yes, because the truth is, when people get a criminal background, they are not going to get any jobs. If they do, those jobs won’t pay much money. These individuals are not going to starve to death. They are going to find a way to feed themselves. As a result, that is why the recidivism rate is over 80%. If you had a factory that was producing products, and 80% of the products came back defective, you wouldn’t continue to use that process.</p> <p>There has been a slight change in how we are dealing with people that have made some bad choices in our society. Rather than throwing money at caging them, they are now looking at the possibility of helping them to learn how to read because over 76% of them are functional illiterates, giving them the skillset and giving them some support to help them to be reintegrated into society. If you go to jail, you can’t stay in public housing. If you apply for a job, you have to put down that you have a criminal background. Most employers will say, “We’ll call you. Don’t call us.” They are penalized throughout their lives, even after they have paid their debt to society. That’s not fair.</p> <p>My mother was once incarcerated. She sold home brew and moonshine and wrote numbers when she could no longer work at the M&amp;M cafeteria. That was a tough time. I became a man at ten years old as a result of that. Seven children in a house that no longer had the guardian, the person who took care of us. She adopted seven of us. She said that she made a commitment when she did that that we would never go to bed hungry, and we did not. We would always have a roof over our head, and we did have that. That was a gaff in our lives that was very painful and challenging.</p> <p>There are a lot of good people who made some bad choices, and I believe the world consists of the caught and the uncaught. I have made some bad decisions in my life. I did some stupid things when I was younger. Thank God I didn’t get caught. I believe that God was looking out for me because when I go to the bathroom, I leave the door open a crack. I do it all the time. What did Retta say? If you can’t do the time, don’t commit the crime.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Les Brown, you have this magical ability to put concepts into powerful words and to communicate it to people. I have been in groups that have just been so excited. I know that people write you and people speak to you about how you have inspired them. Something you said, and the content you gave them, gave them substance to get them out of where they were. It’s a mind shift, isn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> No question. To put it in another context, you are expanding their vision of themselves. When people are going through a tough time, they have a tendency to expand and exaggerate the circumstances they are going through. When I speak, my goal is to expand your vision of yourself, to begin to see that there is greatness in you, that you are greater than your circumstances. You are better than anything you are going through now or in the future. You have to affirm to yourself.</p> <p>I have dealt with cancer on a regular basis for 21 years. My affirmation is: “This will not get the best of me.” I have to say this to myself, “I refuse to allow this to live in my life. I am stronger than this.” We have to, I believe, program ourselves and talk to ourselves to get through the stuff we are dealing with because things are going to happen to us. Forrest Gump is right, “Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re going to get.”</p> <p>Greater is He that is in us and the He that is in the world as a presence. There is a power that we all have within ourselves that we have not been trained how to access so that we can rise above what we are going through and live our lives from the inside out rather than living our lives from the outside in. You have to discipline yourself not to get caught up and buy into what I call the weapons of mass distractions. There are so many things that will distract you and tell you that you can’t handle this or deal with this. You have to harness your will. You have to say to yourself, “I am going to get through this.” When life has been kicking my butt, no matter how bad it is, I have an affirmation, “I am going to make it.”</p> <p>When I say that, I think about my mother because she went through some tough times, raising seven children that she didn’t give birth to. She had a third grade education, was a domestic worker, and had arthritis. She would say, “Arthur is bothering me.” I would ask her, “Mama, who is Arthur? You are always talking about Arthur.” She said, “Don’t worry. If you live long enough, you’ll find out.” I have Arthur in my right butt. In my behind. You know what I mean? On the right side.</p> <p>I was at a church service, and this lady was a healer. So I decided to get in line. She asked, “Can I help you?” I said, “Well, just touch me at the top of my head, and the healing power will go through my whole body.” She said, “I want direct impact.” I said, “Well, I have prostate cancer, and I have arthritis in my right butt.” She said, “Touching means the same.” She was not going to touch me in the groin.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> This is real, I’m telling you. She gave me some prayer cards, which I still have in my underwear right now. I was going back and forth on the stage. I saw people laughing and looking past me. This was in Detroit. I asked, “What are you laughing at?” These prayer cards that I had paid $3 for had slipped out of my pants, and I had a line of prayer cards going across the stage. I said, “You all can laugh if you want.” I picked them up and put them right in my underwear. 21 years of kicking cancer’s butt.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Your whole life is changing the paradigm because of your determination and your vision for yourself.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We are in Cleveland, Ohio. We spent a chunk of yesterday letting you download your vision. This is a foundation that you are starting, but it’s bigger than that. It’s more like a movement. You are talking about 80% return to prison. That is a crisis.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And you’re doing something about it. This is an official notice. We haven’t named it, but you are launching the Les Brown Foundation that provides support. You are going to invite people to participate in this movement with you. We are in this room in Ohio, and we have had some really powerful conversations. This is a huge vision, Les. I have worked with charities for 31 years. This is the top of the heap. This is powerful. Why am I here, and why is Tamara here?</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> The two of you have a skillset that I don’t have. You are very knowledgeable and experienced in this area of how to set up a nonprofit, along with Sherita Herring. Part of what I want to do, two people that I know who have integrity and experience and the skillset and other relationships that I don’t have, and that can teach me. I have asked for help, not because I am weak, but because I want to remain strong. Ask for help, but don’t stop until you get it.</p> <p>I could have gone on to set up a nonprofit; a lot of people do that. But I wanted to do it in the right way. I wanted to have a system and a level of transparency. When people contribute to the work that we are going to be doing, they will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the money is going where we said it will go. I believe that when you are going to do something of this magnitude, you need people in your corner that can help you do that, that know things that you don’t know, and can set it up the right way so you can accelerate your level of success. You and Tamara are two individuals I strongly believe in. I met you at CEO Space.</p> <p>When we look at putting something together that will outlast you—to me, greatness is living your life in such a way that the things that you create, as one Russian author said, will not be undone or destroyed after you’re gone. We are only here for a limited amount of time. I had a plan of doing an event with Wayne Dyer, and we talked about doing a PBS Special. We put it off for several months. He finally called me and said, “I am coming to Orlando. Let’s get together and do this PBS special.” Two days later, he had a massive heart attack.</p> <p>We have to seize the moment. I am 72. I look much younger because I don’t believe in gray hair. There is no shade in my gait. I travel around with mascara in my pocket. If any gray hair comes out, I will touch it up in a heartbeat. The only three gray hairs that show up are in my eyelashes because I haven’t figured out how to do that yet. But I’m thinking about working on getting me some Mary Kay and hooking this stuff up.</p> <p>My goal now is about leaving a legacy. What will be different because I came this way? I have been thinking about that as a 21-year cancer conqueror, because of God’s grace and mercy. My goal is to live a life that they could say, This guy, because of his passion and his commitment to help transform people’s lives, like somebody transformed his life, he made an impact. There are people as a result of going through his training or hearing him speak that they were never the same as a result of being in his presence. I want to make my life mean something. Most people after they die, about two or three weeks later, because their lives were so inconsequential, they just worked a job, paid the bills, and took care of the family. One day, they were out of here. I don’t want it like that.</p> <p>I remember talking to my daughter on the telephone, and she said, “Dad, I am here in traffic, and there is a policeman on a motorcycle in the middle of the road. He is obviously stopping traffic for a funeral procession to come by.” I said, “Okay.” She said, “I think I’m going to be here a minute.” All of a sudden, she said, “Whoa, wow.” I said, “What’s wrong?” She said, “Nothing’s wrong. A hearse just went through. Only one car was behind it. When I die, Dad, I want, because of how I live my life, there to be a long procession of cars and people coming out to celebrate my life, that I was here in the difference I made for them.” I said, “I understand that.”</p> <p>That is what I want. When I go, people will come out to celebrate my life because I did some good stuff. As evil prevails, a lot of good men and women do nothing. There is a lot of good that all of us can do.</p> <p>But one of the things that I think about often, a lady that flew over from Australia for me to train her in speaking, I asked her, “Why did you select me? There are a lot of people all over the world.” She said, “I saw you on YouTube speaking in the Georgia Dome, and you speak from your heart. Therefore, I want to learn how to speak from the heart as well.” I said, “I can teach you how to do that.”</p> <p>Then I stopped and said, “What is your why? What is the reason you want to discover your power voice?” She said, “When I saw Dylann Roof, a young white kid who went to an African-American church and killed nine black people, “I felt there should be another person on his side standing before the judge. He was not born with that level of hatred in him. Somebody was in his ear. Somebody twisted his mind.” Then she paused and said, “I believe the world is as it is not because a few people are violent. I believe the world is as it is because too many people are silent.” When she said that, that really grabbed me. That gave me goose bumps.</p> <p>I want my voice and the voices of the people I train to be a chorus to create a different kind of mindset on the planet. I believe that can be done in our lifetime.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What we are here to set up is a way for people not only to be at your celebration for your life, but to continue the celebration. In Africa, there is a saying, “When a man dies, they burn his library.” We are not burning your library. We are building it up.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> In fact, put them in my casket with me. I tell my kids, “When I die, don’t let them do anything with me until you come down to the morgue to identify my body. To make sure that I’m gone, put a microphone in my hand. If I don’t sit up and say, ‘You’re gonna be hungry,’ you can say that Dad’s gone.” “How do you know he’s gone? Did you check his pulse?” “No, we put a microphone in his hand and his mouth was still closed.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh man. You have touched the lives of so many people in person. Like you said, your YouTube and Facebook and videos that are online, people view them. When I say Les Brown to people, they are like, “Oh yeah, I saw that video.” That is one way to live on. But what I have discovered, I have known you for a number of years, and you mentioned CEO Space. I have had to follow you twice on stage.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> You called me your opening act.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s right. You gave me a high five. I knew you’d either love it or hate it.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> I thought you were quick on your feet. I saw another speaker, this former mayor of Detroit, Colman Young. He had to speak to a group of cosmetologists, all of these females. As he was coming up on the platform, he tripped and fell. Everybody gasped. When he got himself together and came up to the microphone, he said, “Obviously I have fallen for you.” I said, “You go, boy.” That was awesome.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> In this last day, my appreciation for Les Brown has grown deeper, not only for your ability to recall tons of profound quotes that are relevant to what we are talking about, but also the depth of your knowledge, perception, and experience. You know what you’re talking about, and you have paid the price. I knew that. Now I really know that. I always believed it. I know because I had to follow you that you made me a better me.</p> <p>The first time you talked and left, and I had to come speak an hour or so later, I was getting dressed, and I was trembling. You had this group going, man. They cooled off and came back and were like, “Who is Hugh Ballou?” I looked in the mirror and I said to myself, “You’re going to go out there, and you’re going to be Hugh Ballou.” I had the inspiration from me from that session. Because you triggered something in me, and I gave myself permission to be me. You talked about that earlier. I can really understand, when you say helping people to access that greatness within them, which you talk about in a number of ways, I am paraphrasing my hearing it—I want to say to people I have known you for a while, I have known your content. I have a whole deeper level of appreciation. What this movement is about, you are creating a foundation to be able to provide resources for those people that are trapped. 80% return to prison, I heard you say.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And we are talking about doing a teen program because they get into a cycle that is going to lead them there. There is the training to help people break the cycle, but you are also helping people not get in the cycle. You have some outstanding programs.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> I want you to pause. We decide the number of prisons that we are going to build based upon the failure rate of African-American students in the third grade. Based upon that. I say if we can track failure, we can also track success. Rather than tracking people to find out what number of kids are going to drop out in the third grade, and that will tell us the number of prisons based on those numbers we extract to build, we can decide we are going to do an intervention here, and we will give them the tools that they need to transform their mindset; teach them how to become effective communicators; teach them how to develop collaborative, achievement-driven, supportive relationships; teach them how to use the Internet; to be taught or learn how to use money online and become entrepreneurs; and teach them how to dress like a prospect rather than a suspect.</p> <p>I was looking at television, and they had these police arrests live. They arrested this guy whose pants were below his butt. They said, “Pull those pants up.” There is a comedian years ago on television. He had a bag over his head. If you hear a guy with a bag over his head, that would be me right through the shopping mall with a big belt and popping these butts with these pants hanging so low. I don’t even have to say to pull your pants up because they will pull them up after that. That will be me. That is a level of insanity to be in that. My goal is to eradicate the age to addiction and incarceration death syndrome. The sagging started in the prisons.</p> <p>I had to speak in a prison a few months ago. I used to challenge young men to come on stage, and I would pay them $1,000 if they could do more pushups than me. At the time, I did 142 pushups consecutively.</p> <p>I went into this prison, and I asked these young guys who came into the room. They had the pants sagging. I said, “Hey, I’m an old man. Why do you wear the pants the way you do? What do you call that?” They said, “Sagging.” I said, “Sagging?” They said, “Yeah.” “How do you spell that?” “S-a-g-g-i-n.” I said, “Wow, saggin’.” If you can determine what a man will think, you will never have to concern yourself with what he will do. If you can make a man feel inferior and never have to compel him to seek an inferior status, for he will seek it himself, and if he can make a man feel justly an outcast, never have to order him to go to the back door, he will go without being told. If there is no door his very nature will demand one.</p> <p>I said, “Spell it again.” “S-a-g-g-i-n.” I said, “Good. Flip it. Spell it backwards.” They paused for a moment and said, “Whoa.” I said, “Yeah. That’s how you’re dressing. Yeah. That is your vision of yourself. Yeah. You think that’s cool? Yeah.” Let me tell you something. When I left there, there was no saggin’. They pulled their pants up. I never had to tell them.</p> <p>I believe that people are as they are because if we knew better, we would do better. We have created a culture that is an entertainment-driven culture. The average immigrant who comes to the United States has a four times’ greater chance of creating wealth, buying a home, and having their own business. Why? Even though they can’t speak the language and don’t know the culture, when they hit the ground, they are hungry. They came here to achieve. Immigrants have an achievement-driven mindset. We as Americans are spoiled. We are spoiled. Are we perfect? No. But there are things we have that we take for granted. I have traveled to over 40 countries. When I am coming through security, I say, “God bless America.” I am so glad to get back home. We are blessed. We live on the greatest country on the planet.</p> <p>My goal is to help people overcome the psychic disrepair that this culture has created in many cases, to help them to discover the truth of who they are that will empower them to make choices that will free them from living a small life, from infecting people with their mediocrity and begin to affect people with their greatness.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Powerful. Part of why I came and Tamara came was the brilliance that we see when you are influencing people on stage and in person. I heard you coaching people on the phone yesterday. It’s like they are the only person in the world. You give them such focus, love, and attention. I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t want to go on and be successful. You have a real, genuine interest in people. You actually care about- Everybody I’ve seen you with, you really care about them. You have a huge segment, and to be able to create sustainability, the Les Brown influence is the catalyst. What you’re creating is programs, mentoring, accountability, a whole system to help people stay on a track.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> Yes. T.D. Jake said something I agree with. He said, “There is no success without successors.” We learn, we earn, and you pass it on. I am in this stage now to pass on the things that I have learned. I was on a plane, and they had to have an emergency landing. I became ill on the plane. I remember being on the floor after they pulled me out of my chair, and I was going in and out of consciousness. I remember saying to myself, “God, don’t let me die now around these strangers with the knowledge that I have to transform kids’ lives. Please give me some more time to do the work that I feel You have given me to do.” When we landed in Salt Lake City, Utah, and the emergency crew came on the plane with all of their instruments, they wanted to put a paddle on my chest and the guy said, “Hey, wait a minute. You, mister. I know you. You are that man who help people deliver their dreams. I got this job because of you.” He put the oxygen mask on me. “Be gentle with him as you take him up. He’s got people’s lives he must change. He can’t go now.”</p> <p>I mean, the tears begin to fall from my eyes. What are the chances? They say coincidence is God’s way of being anonymous. God was affirming to me that my work is not done, I have touched more people than I will ever know. He was talking to me as I was going out. He said, “How is Gladys doing?”</p> <p>I tell you, this has been an exciting journey. I have grown. People have blessed me in so many ways. I am here because there were people who believed in me when I didn’t believe in myself. I teach that sometimes you have to believe in somebody’s belief in you until your belief kicks in.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes, sir. My wife has a saying that somebody believed in her when I was nothing but potential, and I can say that, too.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> Yes. Nothing but potential.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tamara is here. You picked up the phone, called us, and said, “Let’s get together.” So we came. You are a man of influence. Leaders are a lot of things, but number one, leaders are influencers. You influence us as well as the rest.</p> <p>Tamara has a real high-level consulting career. She is leaving that to come and help put this together and make sure it is done right. Why did you say yes to being a part of this- I’m going to call it a movement, is that all right? Why, Tamara, did you say yes to this?</p> <p><strong>Tamara:</strong> When we talk about Les Brown in my house, you should hear what me and my husband say. My husband is so supportive of me going with Les Brown, helping him with his vision. He says, “You’re not just doing this for Les Brown; you’re doing it for the world.” He has influence over the world. That is extremely important. I get excited about his vision, the things he wants to do.</p> <p>I am a mother of four. I understand the mindset and how important it is to change people’s mindsets, particularly in children. With my own children, I teach them who they really are. Sometimes it works against me. I have a 13-year-old son, and I promise you when he was about nine years old, my girls had gone out and he stayed home. I asked them, “Why don’t you take your brother with you?” They said that he is staying home today to work on his back flip. I said, “His back flip?” “Yeah, he is down in the basement working on his back flip.” I say, “He can’t do a back flip?” I go downstairs and ask him, “Son, what are you doing?” He said, “Don’t worry. I am not doing the back flips yet. I am working on it in my mind.” I said, “What?” He said, “You said if I put my mind to it, I can do anything.” You know what? You’re right. Let’s both of us put our minds on lessons before back flipping in the basement.</p> <p>Having four children and seeing their growth and actually inputting the things I put into them, I know how important it is to work on mindset. When Les talks about the mindset of children and incarcerated persons, I wholeheartedly believe in that, and I want to help flesh out his vision. You have a visionary, you have a details person, we work well together.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> As part of my series, I interviewed Cal Turner. Cal Turner went to his executive team at Dollar General and said, “My dad founded this company. I got this job because of my genes, not because of my skill. But I have the vision. You got the skill. We’re going public.” They went public, and it was very successful. They sold it later, and everybody received a lot of rewards for that. They all stepped up because he let them step up because he was the influencer and the visionary. He said to me, “Hugh, leadership is about defining your gaps and finding really good people to fill them.” That is part of my leadership education program now. Cal has influenced me. He is older than us, just a little bit, but he is still out there sharing his wisdom.</p> <p>It’s not about you asking for help. It’s about you being a good leader, saying, “Here is my expertise.” What she just pointed out, you have the vision, you have the goods, and she has the details. I am pleased to be a part of this project. I am a NASCAR fan. They go faster when they draft together.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> Absolutely. One of the things that leaders also do is they are perpetually engaged in the process of a talent hunt, looking for people who have talent, skills, resources, access, and credibility that you don’t have. We can’t do the things we want to do by ourselves. One goose can fly 75% further in formation with other geese that it could never fly by itself.</p> <p>Part of my training is I teach people to practice the principle of OQP, only quality people. Dr. Dennis said, “If you are the smartest one in your group, you need to get a new group.” I have seen Tamara. I know about her leadership skills, her integrity, her commitment, and she is a person who can get things done. She has propensity for detail. That is opposite of me. I am not a details person. My skill is in speaking and training people how to speak, but she knows how to put systems in to place, and complemented with your skills and knowledge, we will be able to build something that will outlive us. It will be part of the future we cannot see.</p> <p>That is why I am excited about this new chapter in my life, building something that will outlast me and will be here long after I’m gone, that my grandchildren and great-grandchildren—I have three great-grandsons. My goal is to build something that will continuously transform people’s lives. My children share this vision as well and work with me. I am excited about what we can produce working with you and Tamara and also with the skillset and mindset of Sherita Herring. I believe what we are putting together is going to be an incredible movement that people can see, believe in, sink their teeth into, that they want to support.</p> <p>We are going to train young people. My goal is to help young people develop a different kind of mindset, to reduce the bullying and suicide rates. Suicide among young people has increased over 300%. According to the Center for Disease out of Atlanta, over 3,000 people committed suicide last year in this country. More people died from suicide than traffic accidents. In the land of opportunity, where people try to outswim sharks to get here or outrun jeeps barefooted to get here, I believe that is the result of lack of hope. When there is hope in the future, that gives you power in the present. When you combine hope, methods, and collaborative achievement-driven supportive relationships, that when people take some hits, and we are all going to have some hits. We will help people to weather those storms. We will help people to have the wherewithal to weather those hits, and they will come from so many places.</p> <p>One doctor looked at me and said three words no one ever wants to hear, “You have cancer,” those three most feared words in seven languages. I asked, “Can you get me a second opinion?” He said, “Yes, and you are ugly, too.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We did some drilling down on the sustainability, the continuity of this. We are going to invite people to be part of this tribe, to take on the programs. But you are going to train trainers to train other trainers. As far as the youth go, they are going to have peer-to-peer training. We are going to build a cadre of student leaders who will speak in a very different way to their peers. I think your pleasure is to start with those who are incarcerated because it is such a crisis and jails are full.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> They are. When you look at the jails, the juvenile detention centers, the prisons at both the state and federal level, the numbers are staggering. When we look at the things we can do to give them the support and the tools they need, and the mindset that you are worth something- If you are in a prison, you are not even recognized by your name but your number. The system as it is is designed to destroy a person’s sense of self. They treat them like animals. They get out and act like animals. We can do better than that. We are the United States of America.</p> <p>When we look at young people today, and their behavior… I was on a bus to the airport. They have those shuttles. A lady got on with her mother, and her mother is a senior citizen. She was holding a small baby, and the mother was like eight months pregnant. You know those shuttles. They are rocky and not sturdy. If you are a pregnant woman, I got up and offered her my seat. She gladly sat down. There is a young guy sitting there. I said, “Brother, do you mind giving this lady your seat?” I was talking about the grandmother holding the baby. He said, “Hey, I paid my money just like she did,” and he wouldn’t get up. I just said, “Wow.” I felt bad for him.</p> <p>I said to myself, “When I see these young guys with pants below their butt or they are disrespectful and have no sense of decency, I get angry with myself. I need to multiply my self through other people so that someone else can get in their ear other than what they are listening to every day that does not give them a vision of themselves in the future and keeps them in a very limited mindset.” It’s all about mindset. He thinks, and so as he continues to think, so he remains.</p> <p>We spend no money on the county level, city level, state level on transforming mindsets. Not anything. That is where everything begins. We know that. They did a study on some top achievers around the world, over 3,000. They wanted to know what the common denominator was among them that caused them to reach their goals. They discovered that 85% of them reached their goals because of their attitude, 15% because of their aptitude. The training that we are going to provide is to train a trainer so that this is not surrounding and driven by a personality, but by systems and people who have a vision for our kids in the future, living in a global economy and operating at a higher level of consciousness where they can live a life of contribution as opposed to a life of liabilities.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> James Allen said—you triggered a quote—in his book <em>A Man Thinketh,</em> “People want to change their circumstances and are unwilling to change themselves. They therefore remain bound.”</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> Yes, bound and stuck. That is where all the transformation takes place, in the mind. He also said something: You can’t destroy negative thoughts. They are like weeds. You can overpower them for a period of time, but once you stop doing the things that you do to get the clutter and the negative things out of your mind, then those negative thoughts come back with a vengeance and are stronger.</p> <p>When I had a talk show, King World paid me $5 million. I became so busy and caught up and preparing to be on television and going through the training to be before the camera that I stopped my ritual of reading 30-40 pages every day. I stopped my ritual of listening to Earl Nightingale and Jim Rowan and Zig Ziglar and Tony Robbins and other speakers every day because I was so busy preparing for television. Those negative thoughts came back. I forgot who I was. I was disconnected from my power. I just was not myself until after the program was cancelled. I took a hit. Things happened during that particular time, and I was not prepared to handle them. My best friend died. My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer and passed. I went through a divorce when I was married to Gladys. At that time, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. All of these things happened within 3-4 months. Had I been in my ritual, I would have been knocked down, but I would have been knocked out that I popped.</p> <p>One thing I encourage people to do is maintenance work to maintain that level of consciousness so that when things happen to you, you can handle it. We have the ability to handle it. Dr. Howard Thurman, who was a mentor to Martin Luther King Jr and Mahatma Gandhi, he wrote <em>Deep is the Hunger</em> and <em>The Voice of the Genuine,</em> “There is something in each and every one of us that waits and listens for the voice of the genuine in ourselves. It will be perhaps the only guide we ever have or hear. If we cannot hear it all of our life, our days will be spent on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” When you live your life from the inside out, you are literally saying, “Nobody, no circumstances, no situation will pull the strings of my mindset, my attitude, and how I feel about who I am and how I show up in life.” A profound thinker.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Part of the track that you are laying down is that nurture that helps people not only continue learning, but also to stay on the track. You talked about four programs that you have now and have more in mind. What is the background on why you developed those? What are the circumstances around them? They are powerful programs. EDITED AND PULLED (46:15)</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> I was a state legislator in Columbus, Ohio. I was elected to three terms. I became chairman of the Human Resource committee and the Education committee. I was a very controversial disc jockey, educating people on the things that maintain our detriment in the ‘80s, doing editorials, legislating against police brutality and the deadly use of force.</p> <p>When I was in the legislature, a guy named Clarence King—who had worked with Werner Erhard to create an organization called est—one of the great icons of the South development, he came and sat in the legislature to watch me. He had heard about me being an effective communicator, and he had gotten a contract under the Carter Administration called PIC, Private Industry Council, to train people on welfare, how to transition from welfare to working and being self-sufficient. But he could not get them to be open to that. He saw me and asked me, “Would you come down and talk to them so that you can get them in the mindset to be open to what I could provide for them? If they can do that, I can train them and transform their lives from the inside out, but I can’t get them to listen.”</p> <p>I came down and observed. He hired me as a consultant. My job was to come in first and train them. When I spoke at graduation, I went in a room three times, and I didn’t realize it was the same group of people. They were so transformed in how they were dressed, how clean-shaven they were. They looked like businesspeople. My God, I wanted to learn how to do that. When you speak, you only have 30 minutes to an hour, but I wanted to do more than just speak and leave. These people started doing the same thing they did before I came there.</p> <p>I wanted to be able to create an experience that people will be preeminently transformed for and have the tools and coaches in place to review, repeat, and reinforce the principles that change their mindset. So I became a student of this, me and my mentor Mike Williams who wrote the book called <em>The Road to Your Best Stuff.</em> I started studying and reading everybody that put anything out there dealing with the mind. Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, <em>The Power of Positive thinking.</em> Zig Ziglar, <em>See You at the Top.</em> Winston Churchill, <em>The Truth is Incontrovertible.</em> Alice Metack, <em>AT the end there it is. The New Psycho-Cibernetics</em>. <em>The Secret of the Ages,</em> Robert Collier. Earl Nightingale, <em>The Strangest Secret in the World</em>. I read these books. I listened to these recordings, and I decided I was going to master this.</p> <p>What I discovered from all these guys I studied, they had the complexion of connection. I had the complexion of rejection. So I could do all the things they told me to do, but I still wasn’t going to get that promotion. So I said, Wait a minute. I had to go back to the drawing board. How did Booker T. Washington and Frederick Douglass and Harriet Tubman- “Pray as if everything depends upon God, but work as if everything depends upon you.” I needed to know, What do you do if you are in a system that is stacked against you? How are you going to make it against all odds? I remember John H. Johnson in his book <em>Succeeding Against the Odds</em> said, “There is no defense against excellence that meets a pressing public need. When you have the complexion of rejection, you have to hold yourself to a higher standard, and you have to be committed to make it happen no matter what.”</p> <p>You told me an incredibly inspiring story that drives my life. In 1961, John F. Kennedy asked Wernher von Braun, “What will it take for us to beat the Russians to the moon?” He said five words, and he decided to call a news conference just on those five words. He decided to risk the embarrassment of the United States of America by proclaiming to the world that we are going to the moon in ten years. We did it in eight years. Those five words were, “The will to do it.” I believe that if you are faced with being laid off; if you are going through a divorce; if you have been diagnosed with a terminal illness; if we want to reduce the teenage pregnancy rate, the dropout rate, the recidivism rate, we must incorporate those five words, the will to do it. Everything I believe comes out of that.</p> <p>You are going to have some resistance. You will encounter some obstacles or setbacks, but if you have a will—where there is a will, there is a way. Jesus said, “Whoseever will, let him come.” If you have that mindset, there is an energy, there is a release of power and a presence in you that will allow you to overcome what appears to be insurmountable odds and do things that you don’t even know you can do right now.</p> <p>I’ve seen some things, and I’ve been around. I’ve seen a thing or two. So I know these principles work. They work with me. They work with my children; I use them as guinea pigs. And it’s exciting and fun.</p> <p>In this stage of my life, there are people who are listening right now who can hear me in their ears, but there are a few who can hear me in their heart. Because we all have an energy signature, there are certain people when you speak, they will hear you in their heart. If they heard Tamara or me, they will only hear us in their ears because of your energy signature, something about you. I believe that as we begin to duplicate ourselves and train people and get more voices and troops on the ground giving a message of hope and peace, and create a new conversation to create a different vision of how people see themselves and show up in life, that as we begin to increase those numbers, we will decrease the level of violence and mediocrity. We will decrease the things in our society that are maintaining our detriment. As we look at the words of Elsie Robinson, “Things happen around you and things happen to you, but the only things that really count are the things that happen in you.”</p> <p>When people are stirred up and ignited to become a force for God, to be an instrument, to operate out of a thinking that “the least that you do unto these my brethren, you do it also unto me,” and that you have, as Horace Mann said, “We should be ashamed to die until we have made some major contribution to humankind.” Operating out of that sense of oneness that drove Mrs. Rosa Parks to step up for herself and refuse to get up and give a white person her seat and was incarcerated, there was something in her that said, “I ought to do this on this particular day” and was a defining moment in history. We all have defining moments in our lives. Denzel Washington was in a movie and said, “There are things in life that happen, and it appears like slow motion. There is before this, and there is after this. After this, nothing will ever be the same again.”</p> <p>When I think about Mr. Lou I. Washington, I was in his class my junior year in school. He taught me to work out a problem on the board, and I said, “I’m not one of your students. I’m here to see MacArthur Stevens.” He said, “Doesn’t matter. Do what I’m telling you anyhow.” I said, “I can’t, sir.” The other kids started laughing. He said, “You see, he has a twin brother, Wesley. He’s smart. He’s the dumb twin.” I said, “I am, sir.” He came from behind his desk as they erupted in laughter. I was standing there, tears in my eyes with humiliation. He said, “Don’t ever say that again. Someone’s opinion of you does not have to become your reality.” That was a transforming moment in my life.</p> <p>Even though I’ve never known my birth parents, this guy became like my spiritual father. I told Tamara, “I need to meet your mama because you look so much like me.” But he taught me how to tell time. I wanted to be like him. I watched him. He was an eloquent speaker. He was a speech and drama teacher. He influenced me. My goal is- I have a lot of spiritual sons and daughters out there who have adopted me and I have adopted them. I adopted Mr. Washington.</p> <p>I remember eulogizing him and being at the celebration of his life. I watched his sons from an angle. When I spoke, they looked up at me, and none of his children spoke. We called him the great communicator. I realized something as I watched them: Even though he was their father, I knew a part of him that they never knew. I saw something in him that they never saw. That to me is one of the mysteries of life. How is it that people can be raised in a certain circumstance and end up dramatically different? Mr. Washington had thousands of kids, but he only had one Les Brown. So my goal before leaving the planet is: There are some other Les Browns out there who will do what I’ve done and will go even further, who will do more. They should do greater things. In this stage of my life, I am looking for people who are hungry to do the greater work.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tamara and I have agreed to be the arms and legs for this movement. You are the influencer. You have created magical content, and we are going to put it in a form that is accessible for more people. We are going to help you put together a plan so that people know how they can support this. There are a lot of ways for people to support it. One way is to join your tribe. There are lots of ways we are going to roll out in time. We are going to roll this out gradually.</p> <p>The first stage is to get some funding in. We have a link. Is it the Les Brown Foundation?</p> <p><strong>Tamara:</strong> Yes, it’s lesbrownfoundation.com and lesbrownfoundation.org. We have both.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes. We will have it set up to revert to a page so people can vote with dollars. They want to be a part of seeing this come to reality. The dollars are like putting gas in the car. It will make this run. There is no limit to the influence this movement can have and the impact it is going to have on our country. Just think of all those people who could be productive, who could get out of that cycle. We have done a whole lot of work in a short period of time. You are very clear. We were able to capture this vision and put some tactics around it and create a strategy that other people can understand. Is there a piece of this we haven’t touched on that you think we need to share with people?</p> <p><strong>Tamara:</strong> Just listening to his vision and getting people excited about what we’re doing is super important. I relaly think we have done a good job of rolling it out. Visit the website, see how you can support it. I think we have done a great job telling it today.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> I encourage people to go to the mindset and invest in this movement we are creating. It’s helping me to seal my deal with God. I remember saying, “God, if You help me get up off this floor,” when they have an emergency landing on a plane, they only do it if you are dead or dying. So I had a colonoscopy, and I got on a plane three days later and had internal bleeding I didn’t know I had. I remember when they said, “Is there a doctor on board?” and I had passed out in my chair and they laid me on the floor. They said that the guy came and checked my pulse and I had blood on the floor under me. His hands were soaked with blood from the internal bleeding that was coming out. He said, “We need to make an emergency landing.” They said, “It will only take us two and a half hours more to Detroit.” He said, “If you’re going to do that, then just strap him on the seat in the back and call the morgue and have them waiting. He won’t make it there.” That is when they made that emergency landing, and this guy who was a part of the emergency team said, “Hey, I know you, mister. You’re that man who helps people live their dreams. I got this job because of you.”</p> <p>But I promised God. I said, “If You help me get through this, I’m going to go back to where I started.” I started out training youth and training in prisons. Marysville Penitentiary and Ohio Penitentiary. Jails and prisons across the country. I said, “I promise I will do Your will.” This allows me to seal that deed. I’m still here. I made a deal with God. I gave Him my word. “If You help me overcome this, I will be used by You to make this world a better place until I take my last breath.”</p> <p>That’s what I want to do: make people feel good, laugh, know that I am not playing with a full deck, and make a difference, make a mark. We are very blessed to be in this country and to be a blessing to others. Naomi Brown, God took me out of my biological mother’s womb and placed me in the arms of my adopted mother. I am here because of two women. One gave me life, and the other one gave me love. So I am grateful to both of them. I feel that I was chosen for this. There is a time I couldn’t admit that. but I have had too many things, signs I have seen, that I know that a hand has been on my life. My steps have been ordered. Things I was encouraged to do and to learn. I don’t know where that came from. But I believe it’s a calling. Sometimes it takes you some time to recognize it. It’s a humbling experience, to feel that you have been chosen for something. So I am humbled because of that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Les Brown.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> Yes?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you for saying yes to this.</p> <p><strong>Les:</strong> Thank you and Tamara for saying yes to me and helping me do this. I appreciate you very much, more than you know. that’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank y’all for being here.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Creating a Position of Influence on LinkedIn</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/creating-a-position-of-influence-on-linkedin</link>
      <description>Free LinkedIn Infographic http://szeak.com/profile-infographic/
 Contact Doug Brown doug@szeak.com
 Doug’s 5 steps for LinkedIn contacts:
  Profile Find Your “Perfect Customer”
 Contact Requests
 Contact follow-up
 Message
 Move Conversation Outside of LinkedIn
  Nonprofit Chat with Doug Brown
 The Interview Transcript
 Hugh: Greetings. Russell Dennis and Hugh Ballou are back. As normal, we are interviewing someone that has really good content. Tonight, our guest is Doug Brown. Doug is an expert in a number of areas. I have known him for a few years. Every time that I have a conversation with him, I learn a lot of stuff. I want you to take notes. There will be some infographics and other things you will be able to take advantage of. Go to nonprofitchat.org if you want to see the notes and the transcript. Doug Brown, welcome to the Tuesday nonprofit chat.
 Doug: Thanks, Hugh and Russell. It is a pleasure to be here tonight.
 Hugh: Tell us a little bit about you. You run Newswire, and you have this really secret power with LinkedIn. Give us a sense of who you are and what your skills are.
 Doug: Well, I have been in Internet marketing since there has been Internet. Our first project was in 1995, and that is about the start of Internet marketing. I have been around the Internet and trying to figure out how to capitalize on the resources there for a long time. I hate to date myself, but I wasn’t really young when I started doing that either.
 At any rate, in 2003, we started a company—I was involved when it started—of Newswire Network. Newswire is a press release distribution program. It goes to Google News. It syndicates press releases on behalf of other people across the web and in the real world also. Newswire has been a fairly successful company. It has been around for a long time. We experienced some meatier growth in the last few years, and almost all of that is attributable to what we did in LinkedIn. You and I have been talking about that a little bit, and I appreciate the chance to share what we have learned about LinkedIn and connecting and social marketing. I think all those things are applicable to anyone who is trying to form relationships and trying to monetize their relationships, whether it’s in a for-profit setting, a nonprofit setting, or just about anywhere else. That is my background. I have been in journalism and Newswire almost exclusively for the last 13 years. But like I say, part of running any business is finding people to pay you to use your service. We figured something out about LinkedIn that may not be totally unique. I am sure other people have figured out similar ways to utilize the platform, but maybe what is unique is I am willing to sit here and talk about it.
 Hugh: That’s awesome. I see a lot of people on all social media, and LinkedIn is no exception. It is social. Social means relationship. I get tired of people hammering me with stuff. The expertise that you bring to clients is how to build relationships and how to build your sphere of influence because in charities, we want to have donors, we want to have board members, we want to have volunteers, we want to have stakeholders who are participating. That ain’t going to happen if we haven’t built a relationship and understand what their passion is. Russell has spoken about that in previous sessions, about how do we connect with a passion of the people who really could serve us well. We are going to talk primarily about LinkedIn tonight…
 Doug: Let me just pick up on that and emphasize that that is exactly true. When we started seeing some growth in our business is when we decided we are going to start forming relationships with people rather than just trying to present them with *audio issue* And that is what social networking and specifically LinkedIn is great for. We talk about some of the differences between LinkedIn and other social networks. It really is social first, and you have to remember that.
 Hugh: It is. There are so many people who don’t understand that. We actually repel the people we are trying to attract. Before we get into this LinkedIn, I have some questions for you.
 Doug, let me touch on Newswire for a minute before we go to LinkedIn. Newswire.net is the site. What problem are you solving for people with Newswire.net?
 Doug: Newswire is a way to communicate your events, your news in your words to the media. Even more specifically, to your target audience. There has been a real change in the way media is consumed and distributed. Like a lot of people listening, I used to read two or three or four newspapers a day. Gee, reading three newspapers a day would take 15 minutes now because my local paper went from hundreds of pages down to maybe tens or fives of pages. News is different than it used to be. Even Google News has changed a lot in the 10 or 12 years it’s been out there. It used to be an idea that a press release was prepared and sent out to the local newspaper, the local TV station, the local whatever with the idea that it was going to be republished in the local paper. In a really few number of years, that has changed, almost because there is nobody home at the local newspaper. People consume their news online, and that is one of the great things about Newswire and Google News specifically. Newswire specializes in putting the news of our subscribers into Google News and places where they can communicate their story directly to consumers without having to hope and pray that somebody at the local paper picks it up and republishes it. We are just a publication service. We are a way for people to disseminate the news about their organizations out to the public directly.
 Hugh: I would encourage people to look at it because it’s very cost-effective. Your reach is enormous. You can audit where it shows up online so people can see all the places it’s been published.
 Doug: Through the last 15 years, Newswire has created its own weather system, so to speak. We have over 100,000 page views a day on Newswire. A typical release will get 1,000 or more views right on our site in addition to what it gets elsewhere. A lot of the views on our site come from Google News. We are indexed on Google News. People come searching for whatever keywords you happen to use, find it, come to our site, and read the post. We try to design our site in a way so that it’s sticky and people can see related stories. They may come to see someone else’s story and end up on yours. People read on average about four stories every time they visit Newswire. It’s a great way to get your information out there. Like you said, it’s very cost-effective.
 Hugh: 100,000 views a day?
 Doug: A day. Yeah.
 Hugh: You slipped that in there. Newswire.net. We will put the link in the notes for today.
 I’ve experienced your work with LinkedIn to be a refreshing change with some of these tools that people are using that says, “Hi, I’m so-and-so. Let’s have a conversation. I want to sell you something.” Let me ask you the same question with LinkedIn. This whole thing is creating your position of influence in connecting the people that matter. I reframe the stuff that you sent to me because that is what we are doing with charities. We don’t know how to get out of our own way and tell our message. There are lots of nonprofit leaders and business leaders. LinkedIn is a really good platform. What people are you solving for people with LinkedIn? Then we will go to why it’s different. Tell us what problem you’re solving for people with LinkedIn.
 Doug: The rest of the resume, the thing that I didn’t really continue on, was we were so successful in building some tools and some ways to do things for LinkedIn that we have taken a few clients that we do this process for. You know a couple people I’ve done that for. Just to continue on there, the problem that we solve through LinkedIn is we help people make the right kind of connections. We help them connect with their target audience. We sometimes call it your ideal or perfect customer. We help them identify that perfect customer and help them create a relationship with that person that over time can be turned into a business relationship of some sort or another. That could be inviting someone to participate on a board or in an event, or identifying and creating a conversation with someone you may not otherwise have had an opportunity to get in touch with. Maybe they run in a different circle or live in a different city, state, or even country for heaven’s sakes. There is half a billion people almost on LinkedIn nowadays. It’s a very different place than the other social networks. You have big numbers on Facebook that LinkedIn will never match, but the difference is that LinkedIn is all about business and for business.
 Let me throw a couple of statistics out off the top of the head. The people that live in the United States that are LinkedIn members have an average income of $110,000.
 Hugh: Oh my word.
 Doug: Yeah. Isn’t that amazing? It’s not a bunch of teenagers. It’s not people sharing kitty pictures. They are about business, and people are there to do business and to connect for business. Yes, the problem that we solve, and the mindset—without getting too far ahead of ourselves here—I’d almost venture to say that 90-some-odd percent of people who are listening to this, if you go back and look at your LinkedIn profile, it reads like a resume. Hugh, that might hit a little close to home. You and I worked on your profile a while ago.
 Hugh: Yeah, that was a paradigm shift for me.
 Doug: The first thing to recognize is that unless you are a job hunter, which is a legitimate thing to do on LinkedIn, but unless you are there to hunt for a job, your profile shouldn’t look like a resume. It shouldn’t be a resume. It should be like every other landing page. This has been something I have been doing for 20 years—like every other thing on the Internet. It ought to have benefits. What do I get out of connecting with Hugh Ballou? What’s in it for me? That’s what everybody at the end of the day wants to know: What’s in it for me? So that’s really where we start with all of the people that we deal with and where I will start with our free session tonight. Let’s make sure that your profile is something that invites the right kind of people to connect with you. Telling people that you are the CEO or Executive Director gives them no reason to want to connect with you. If you tell them what you can do for them or what you do for others, now you are starting down the right track. We can talk more specifics with that, but that is the first problem we solve. Trying to get people to use LinkedIn correctly and not as a spot to host their resumes.
 Hugh: That is a paradigm shifter right there. This has brought out potential conflict in my mind. I have a Hugh Ballou profile on LinkedIn, and I have a SynerVision Leadership Foundation page. Should I have a separate profile for SynerVision? Or is a different page under Hugh Ballou okay? Is that wrong?
 Doug: I think that’s the right way to do it. I would imagine that a lot of people on this call have connected with Hugh on LinkedIn, and if they haven’t, I invite people to go look at Hugh’s profile on LinkedIn. You will get a good idea of where to start because we spent some time thinking about that and working on it. We have an infographic we will share that gives you that information. It starts with your title. If you scroll through your friends on LinkedIn, you will see titles that say “Managing Partner, Accountant, Business Manager,” all those things. They are resume things. Those things don’t do anything for anyone. Unless they are looking to find an accountant, you better not have Accountant in your profile, even if you are the world’s greatest accountant. Even if you are an accountant and you are trying to make a profile, you probably should do something like, “I save people tax dollars,” or “I help people pay the right amount of taxes.” Give them a benefit. Don’t just give them your resume. Tell them why you are worth connecting to. Why are you worth knowing?
 Hugh: Yeah. There are people commenting on Facebook about how good this is. Shannon Gronich was here a couple weeks ago talking about her piece on publicity. You are going to be back with us on this on the 25th of July.
 Doug: I am going to shift hats and put on the PR hat.
 Hugh: You will be back here with some good folks. You helped me fine-tune the Hugh Ballou piece. So I’m thinking that I haven’t even thought about the piece for my nonprofit. That would apply to that as well, wouldn’t it?
 Doug: It kind of would. The thing you have to realize is that even if you are General Motors, your company page is not very well viewed on LinkedIn. People are on LinkedIn to find out about other people and not to find out about companies. Your company profile is in my opinion better served through your webpage, so link your profile to your webpage. If you do multiple things, link multiple web pages.
 The bottom line is still Hugh Ballou is worth knowing because of the benefits you can bring to people, not because you went to MIT. I don’t know where you went to college, I’m sorry. But your resume and where you worked last year is not why they want to know you. They want to know you because of what they can learn from you or what they can get out of you. That is what we focused on. We took a quick run through your profile the other day. That is the way it is. That is what it’s all about.
 That is what the profile is all about, letting people know the benefits, not the features. People don’t want to know the features. Nobody wants to know where you went to school, what your job title was at your last four jobs. Those are features. They are important to you and probably important to your wife, so I am not trying to take those things away from anyone. But me, Doug Brown, if I want to connect with you, I want to know what I get out of it. What do I get out of it? What are the benefits, not the features? Where you went to school, your last three job titles does not really interest me in connecting with you.
 Hugh: We had David Corbin on brand slaughter last month and David Dunworth before that. Both of them talked about how we as leaders present the brand. If I am the executive director, or if I am the founder, like I am of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, I represent that brand because we are the nurturer organization for other charities. We help people build their skills, strategy, team, and income. I find that there is so many people. I am coming to Salt Lake City. But Russ has ben a presenter in Florida and in Denver at these one-day leadership empowerment events that I do. I find that leaders are overwhelmed. They have too much on their plate. They want to connect with other people, but they have trouble getting to events. The system you have developed is really brilliant because it helps people form relationships with people who have a similar passion or similar interest, or there is a chance to collaborate and bring people together in a reasonable conversation. You pointed out that Facebook is the social stuff, the kitty pictures, the family shots, and all of that. Twitter, which I like a lot, I have 200,000 people on Twitter, and I have made some significant connections on Twitter, but it is a distinctively different niche. LinkedIn, I have not mastered. If I am hearing you right, it stands out because it’s where business people do business.
 Doug: That’s exactly right. Everything has its own spot. I have over a million followers on Twitter, but I use it really just to broadcast Newswire news. That is not the same as making connections with people. I put out news, legit news, through my Twitter feed. I don’t use Facebook at all. That is not to say there is not a spot for Facebook for lots of things, but there is not a spot for Facebook in what I think that I do. That is okay. I understand Facebook is well over a billion nowadays, so that would say that a lot of the people who are on LinkedIn are also on Facebook. I’m not trying to draw that kind of distinction and say there is no way to make meaningful relationships there. Obviously there is. But the distinction with LinkedIn is that people are there for business. If you start posting kitty pictures on LinkedIn, you will never hear the end of it. It’s not what it’s there for. It’s there about business. It’s there about being better at business, being a better business leader, finding resources. I could spew amazing statistics all day long, but 72% of business to business purchases right now are preceded by a LinkedIn search. If you are buying a copier, you are going to figure out who that is that you are buying a copier from, or you will find the copier guy. It’s about business to business. I wouldn’t take nonprofit out of that because that is still business to business with a different slant. But the principles are exactly the same. I wouldn’t draw a distinction there.
 Hugh: We have been preaching that. It’s a business. We have more rigid rules with the IRS.
 Doug: If you aren’t going to run it like a business, you won’t be around very much longer.
 Hugh: Amen. As a matter of fact, I had an interview a while ago with somebody up in Michigan, and she had looked at my LinkedIn profile. Glad I fixed it before she looked at it.
 Doug: Just to bring that home for you, whether you know it or not, 72% of the people who are going to do business with you have looked at your LinkedIn profile.
 Hugh: 72%. If somebody is going to donate to my charity, they are going to check me out.
 Doug: No question about it. And you hope they don’t check you out on LinkedIn and find your kitty pictures. You want to be a serious person that has something serious to offer, whatever your niche is. That is not the same as sharing your family fun on Facebook. Again, I’m not here to bash Facebook. There is a spot for it. If people are going to do business with you, 72% of the time they will precede that with looking at your LinkedIn profile, so it better be pretty good.
 Hugh: A different mindset.
 Doug: It fills a different purpose. To call them both social networks, while it’s true, is misleading because they are as different as night and day. Russell is agreeing with me there.
 Hugh: Let’s bring Russell in. He is radically polite, but he has good stuff to say. Russell David Dennis, weigh in. You are very successful on LinkedIn. You write blog posts. What is your experience with LinkedIn?
 Russell: I made a go at it because it was meant for business. I thought I should get serious with it. I bought some additional services with the profile so I could contact more people. I went north of 3,600 followers. They changed the look and feel, but according to the old look, they said I had what they call an All-Star profile. That is pretty good. But I connect. I have a lot of face-to-face meetings with people. I have even been in touch with people I have talked to lately. I dropped in here because I have a lot of people in here and I wanted to see how many of them fell under nonprofit. Probably about a quarter of them do. I did a company page, but it didn’t seem to have the look and feel I thought it would. It’s not like a typical web page. I managed to use Facebook to create a page and some roots, too. Everything has its place. Twitter drives traffic. The place where the rubber meets the road as far as face-to-face is LinkedIn.
 Doug: That is my experience.
 Hugh: Russell takes the edited video and puts it on his LinkedIn page. You have a following with these interviews. Give us a highlight of what that experience has been like.
 Russell: Typically about 10% of my followers will watch an average post. Most of them are 1st connections, but that is typical. It depends. When we had Thyonne Gordon talk about boards, boards are something that people are very interested in. Those particular posts have had more traction. That was the one instance where a podcast had more people go to it than the video.
 I am trying to look at putting some of our podcasts out there. I could probably go back and put some shows that we have had before because this content is evergreen. People like the podcast, and they like to download it. They can go see other podcasts. That is a habit I think I am going to get into: putting the podcast up so that people can have access to whit ile they are driving. I listen to audiobooks in the car and learn a lot in my car because I spend a lot more time than I thought about.
 Doug: It’s a great place. I am an NPR guy, but podcasts and NPR…
 Hugh: Russ, you publish articles. I want to have some dialogue with Doug. Doug, Russ is a very good writer, and he writes some very relevant stuff. He posts it on LinkedIn. He also posts on the SynerVision blog, and Doug, you are certainly invited to contribute to the magazine, Nonprofit Performance, and our blogroll on our SynerVision leadership site. Russ, you have created some articles. What do you think that does to help you connect with the tribe?
 Russell: People get a sense of what I’m thinking. More importantly, I get a sense of what sort of things people are concerned about based on the response to those articles. Typically, I have a response rate of anywhere from 3% to the article that I had the largest percentage of my followers drew about 20%. I posted that, and I don’t think I posted that on LinkedIn. It was on another site. I shared it to my LinkedIn, and the question was who is responsible for fundraising? I had quite a few comments on that. I talked about boards there. There is a lot of interest around that. People want to know how to go about finding board members who can really add some juice to what they are doing, whether that is through skills or networks. The thing that LinkedIn has is you can talk about charitable opportunities and what matters to you in the platform and let people know that you are available to sit on boards. It is a good place to shop for board members. If you can take the time to reach out to a few people and see what is on their minds, you can find out what resonates with them.
 Hugh: I want you to think about a hard question for our guest. I am going to go back to him and weigh in some of the stuff we talked about, and then we will come back and let you give him a zinger question.
 Doug: I do have a couple things that I’d like to weigh in there. I do think that it is important for you to continue to publish on LinkedIn, but don’t make the mistake of thinking that is how you are creating contact. Your contact base will grow a little bit from those things, but the truth is, and I am probably going to say something that is a little unorthodox here, we like to use LinkedIn for contacting or identifying contacts, and then our goal is to take the conversation outside of LinkedIn. I’ll tell you why that is.
 Most people, and probably including you guys and most people here, look at LinkedIn somewhat rarely. Maybe that is once a day, once a week, once a month, as opposed to your email. I finally have my telephone set to not giving emails between midnight and 5 am. Other than that, I am basically responding to emails 20+ hours a day. Most businesspeople are like that. One of our goals is to take the contacts we make on LinkedIn outside of it. I just sent you something privately in the chat, Hugh, but I have this six-step process we follow.
 The steps to making it work is to work on your headline, work on your profile; use LinkedIn to identify your perfect customer; request contact them; do one or two follow-up messages on LinkedIn; and move the contact outside of the site. We found that far more effective. Whether that’s a phone call or an email or a text, however you normally communicate. If I were to ask you, Hugh, how often you message with someone on LinkedIn, the answer will probably be, “Seldom.” What we have found and what we recognize, and those steps I just gave, are we use it to identify, we use it to connect, we use it to start a conversation, but as soon as possible, we get it outside of LinkedIn and back into the way people are used to communicating.
 Hugh: It does bring it front and center. You have shown me ways to find people in a geographic area or demographic or psychographic. You can sort people. Russ has far more advanced skills than I do. Go back to this how often I check it. Are you on LinkedIn every day? If so, how much?
 Doug: Are you asking me?
 Hugh: Outside of the work you do for other people, but personally, how long do you work it every day? Or do you work it every day?
 Doug: The answer is we do this for our salespeople. It’s a great question to ask me, but I don’t get in there as a consumer but maybe once a week. I think I’m fairly typical. Part of what we do with LinkedIn involves some of our staff all day every day, but that is different. In terms of me checking up on my friends and randomly reading posts and reading what my friends have posted, not a lot. Some, but not a lot. In that respect, I think it’s very different from Facebook. I won’t name names, but I have adult kids that spend way too much of their life in my opinion on Facebook. People don’t do that on LinkedIn. It’s not the time-killer, or as sticky as Facebook. Is that a nice way to put it? We have found by far a lot better success in using it as a tool to identify, to start a conversation, but taking the conversation outside of LinkedIn has been much more successful for us.
 Hugh: Scott Riches sends his greetings, saying, “Two of my favorites, Doug and Hugh.”
 Doug: Scott lives across the street from me, and I see him about once a blue moon. Hi, Scott.
 Hugh: He is on the webinar.
 Doug: Or come across the street and we will say hi.
 Hugh: You never know. It’s interesting, Doug. I’ll be speaking to a group, and they will point to me and say, “As you said on your podcast.” You were talking about how we influence people. It’s interesting how we impact other people with our thoughts and our comments and how it either connects to people or it doesn’t. We can have negative impact or positive impact on our social media.
 Doug: That’s another great point I want to shove home in this conversation. Hugh and I are part of a training/connecting group that I go to every month, and sometimes I go to national things a few times a year. If you are really dogged, you might meet ten people a day. You have to be really at it. The chances of one of those ten people being the right person is whatever the chances are. You can do ten times that in an hour on LinkedIn. Just the odds of connecting with the right kind of people, you can put it in hyperdrive and still take those pre-qualified leads back into how you would connect otherwise and connect outside of LinkedIn. You can use it as a huge filter. You can filter through hundreds of people instead of the people you can run into at a social event.
 Hugh: Some of the people that I know I referred to you and you started working with say they are amazed at the number of people who want to talk to them. You have done a good job of helping them present themselves in a way people want to talk to them. Those of us doing sales call them leads. But we are always, if we are running a charity- I like the word “charity” because “nonprofit” is such a stupid word even though that is the name of this thing. If we are running a charity/nonprofit, we should focus on profit, but we should focus always on cultivating relationships, maintaining the existing relationships, and continuing to build new relationships. Let me contrast the brand slaughter thing that I mentioned earlier. We can do and say anything we want as leaders, but there is negative impact. If you are in the wrong setting, that is a negative. You can post things that- like somebody we know in Washington tweets things that get in the news. That is not necessarily good for those of us running a charity. What are things we should not do on LinkedIn that have negative impact for us?
 Doug: Right off the top of my head, and I have seen this happen a couple of times in fact, one of our mutual friends really blew his entire social network apart by taking a political stand.
 Hugh: Oh yes. He told me he lost half his followers overnight.
 Doug: That is a good example of what not to do. We can be Jews or Mormons or atheists or Muslims, but that is not relevant to our business situation. We can be Republicans or Democrats. We can be anarchists; we can be anything we want to be. It’s not relevant to your business setting. Keeping those kinds of things as far away from your social- Again, that is very different than what people do in a lot of social networking settings. People have Twitter followings based on a distinct and a niche point of view. Your Facebook friends are probably down with you on some niche point of view. That is not relevant to business. What not to do: Don’t do it. Talk about your benefits in terms of what you can bring to someone in business. Keep your political views, your religious views, your sexist views, your gun views, I don’t care what it is, it’s not relevant to your business. You have to realize that every time you express a view like that, you alienate some huge portion of your potential contacts. If you are a Trump guy and spout Trump, you have now limited yourself to 38% of the people in the United States. If you are a gun guy and spout guns, you eliminate half the people. If you are an anti-gun guy and spout anti-gun stuff, you have eliminated half the people.
 Hugh: Russ spent some time working of the IRS. There are some pretty strict guidelines, unless they get changed under Trump, mentioning him, that you can’t really take a political position as a 501(c)3 because you can lose your tax exemption.
 Doug: I’m not really talking about just your- I’m talking more about your posts on LinkedIn and your profile on LinkedIn, just in terms of inviting people to connect with you. You want to be as specific as you can be in terms of your benefits, what you can do for people. You want to be as obtuse as possible about whatever your views are, realizing that whatever your most heartfelt view is will alienate half the people you could potentially connect with if you express that, no matter how dear it is to you. Unless you are selling guns, maybe. I don’t know. I hope the point is understood.
 Hugh: The point is well understood.
 Doug: I’m being facetious to some extent, but I think you get it.
 Hugh: You’re not. It’s a serious topic. We don’t take it seriously. I want to get to some tactical questions about identifying and connecting and messaging, and then I want to talk about this awesome infographic. But I want to see if Russell has come up with a really hard question for you. I want to see you sweat.
 Russell: People find out that I worked for the IRS, and I’m not nearly as scary as people want me to be.
 Hugh: He took this Colombo position in asking dumb questions, and I can picture him in that trench coat.
 Russell: It really worked best on $500 an hour attorneys, but that is another story for offline. In terms of really getting connected with people on LinkedIn and creating a message, when I started, there were people out there that I just didn’t know. I looked for people in certain niches and went out there. That was a little scattershot. I got somebody to help do that. I learned the concepts of going into groups and engaging. Now I found myself in a lot of groups. How would you parse out your engagement on LinkedIn? I have probably 40 different groups. How would you go about dividing that and conquering it? It’s almost too much of a good thing in some ways. It’s hard to be engaged in that many places. How would you go about separating that?
 Doug: I’m not a fan of groups. Maybe one or two groups if they are really specific to your niche and what you are doing. Let’s for example take the idea that you are trying to find some directors for your nonprofit. A group is not going to help you there at all. Like you said, it creates some noise that maybe you don’t need to deal with. I would unjoin every group that I was in if I were you that wasn’t specific to what you are trying to accomplish today.
 In terms of your old connections, one of the other things that I am pretty careful about and ask our guys to be pretty careful about is not to mix- One of the things that a lot of people do when they start at LinkedIn is import their address book out of their mail processor or email app. LinkedIn encourages you to do that. That gets you Mom and sisters and nieces and aunts and uncles and neighbors down the street, and all sorts of stuff that is irrelevant. You probably can’t do anything about that if you have done that already, but don’t do it anymore.
 Russell: I haven’t done that because there are too many that just don’t belong.
 Doug: The challenge is that for people who have more than one business, that is tough because you mix stuff up. But most of us have one business and one thing we are trying to accomplish. When you get a LinkedIn request from someone, unless it is someone you think you would have sought out, don’t accept it.
 There is a limit to how many LinkedIn connections you can have; it’s 30,000 right now. That may sound like a lot, but I went past that a long time ago. It’s not a lot. Over the course of a couple of years of using LinkedIn, you can easily suck up that many. Be selective about who you contact. Make sure they are people who fit your criteria. After that, they can follow you. That is when your strategy of posting comes more into play. 30,000 contacts is enough to make a lifetime out of, so use them carefully and wisely.
 I heard a little saying the other day that I will pass on: Your net worth is now your network. Your net worth is your network. Use it carefully. Don’t just accept people for whatever. There is a code you will see in LinkedIn every now and then: LION. People will put that in their profile. Stay away from those people unless you are barely starting out. LION is a LinkedIn Open Networker. That is not a bad thing. Those are the people that will connect with anybody and the idea they are trying to make a huge network with no selectivity. If people have LION in their profile, you probably want to stay away from them, not that they are bad people. They are not specific. You only have 30,000 of them. Russ, you’re sitting there at 3,500, and Hugh, I remember you are at 5 or 6,000. 30,000 may seem like a long ways away, but it’s not. Use them carefully. Maybe someday LinkedIn will open that back up a little bit more.
 Hugh: I didn’t realize that. I wondered if there was a cap. Before I go to the tactical questions, let’s talk about the kinds of relationships we want to cultivate. I could say we could create a peer-to-peer group with other nonprofit directors who are having the same problems that would be a support group, maybe a mastermind connection. I could see we could connect with businesspeople geographically that could be candidates for our boards. I could see that we could connect with marketing people in companies to start talking about how it would benefit their brand to be a sponsor for our nonprofit. Do you have any comments on those, or are there other kinds of connections people might want to make?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                
 Doug: You might go directly for people that share your interests, whatever the interest is of your nonprofit. If you are in kitty rescue, out of half a billion people, you can find a lot of people that share your specific interest. If it’s macramé that is your interest, you will find thousands of people who love macramé. If you are doing great work in a niche, then you want to connect with other people who are interested in that niche and see where it goes. Some might be donors, some might be business partners, some might be board members. As long as someone shares your interest, that is a great place to start. It’d be hard to name another place that gives you another way to search for people that shares- Whatever esoteric interest you might have, you can find a list of people on LinkedIn that self-classify as sharing that interest.
 Hugh: That’s a good segue. We have a quarter of our interview left here. How do we identify those connections, and how do we contact them? How do we use the messaging piece to stay in touch with them?
 Doug: There are a bunch of questions there. Let’s talk about them one at a time. Let’s go fairly quickly. Let’s put up the infographic and talk about it in the barest details for a minute or two.
 Hugh: There is a downloadable brilliant infographic.
 Doug: This thing is about five times as tall as it is wide. You are only seeing a portion of it. This first portion has some important things. Russell, you used to pay for that background image, and now everyone gets that for free. You can put a background picture here in your profile. You need to put a good business picture in your profile. It is just astounding that people are four times as likely to connect with someone who has an image than with someone who doesn’t have an image.
 Then the headline- that is the most important thing. This one is “I help B2B companies save money through outsourcing solutions.” That is a silly example, but the important things are there. You have identified who you help and how you help them. That is the important part of the headline. That will let people self-qualify as to whether or not they want to connect with you and whether or not you want to connect with them. If people know what you do and what you do it for and want to connect with you, then you are halfway home. They already know what you’re about, and if they want to connect with you after they know what you’re about, then you at least have a start. If you say you’re an accountant, you might get other people who want to connect with you because they want to be part of the brotherhood of accountants, but that is a long way from having someone who wants to do business with your nonprofit. I’m going to leave it at that and let everybody go through the download themselves. On the website, there is a post about doing headlines. I can’t think of anything more important than your headline. There is a place that calls them Snaps. Whatever you call a headline, an elevator pitch, whatever it is, you should be able to communicate what you do, who you do it for, and what they get out of it in a few words. You should put that as a bumper sticker, on your business card, tattoo it on your forehead, whatever. But they might be the most important 10-12 words you ever come up with in your life. For lots of different things, not just your LinkedIn profile. Feel free to download that infographic and play with it, and that website has more pieces that might be helpful to you.
 Hugh: That is an interesting name. Szeak. How do you say that?
 Doug: Szeak.
 Hugh: This will all be in the show notes. Does that mean anything?
 Doug: Nope. It’s a five-letter domain.
 Hugh: Give us some tips on how to find people.
 Doug: There are tools inside of LinkedIn. Russell, I think you were making a reference to this also, but if you are going to get serious about LinkedIn, you need to pay for one of their premium programs, which is called Sales Navigator. They may have changed the name on it now, but it’s a program inside of LinkedIn. It’s $80 a month. You can do most of the same stuff without paying for that, but LinkedIn will throttle you down. LinkedIn will only let you do so many contact requests. I don’t know what the number is. It’s probably a couple hundred a month, whereas if you pay them, they are more than willing to let you do as much as you want within some reason. This isn’t the time, and it’s not graphical enough for me to teach you how to do that right now, but there are lots of good tutorials on LinkedIn about searching.
 There are actually 24 criteria in Sales Navigator that you can search on. One of them is Ebullient Search, which means you can use plus, minus, words, quote marks, all those things. You can do a lot more than just the 24 things. They are things like geography and job title and number of employees and those kinds of things, which are all great. But you can add Ebullient Search to that. If kitty rescue is your thing, you can find thousands of people who have that in their profile. Again, I’m not trying to be flippant. It doesn’t matter what your niche is. You can use LinkedIn searching to identify other people who have that same interest.
 Hugh: That is a powerful tool.
 Doug: It’s unbelievable.
 Hugh: I got that navigator for a little while, but I couldn’t figure it out, so I stopped it. Now I have to go back and find some tutorials. If I heard you right, there are tutorials on LinkedIn on how to do this?
 Doug: There are. We occasionally run webinars, too. You can put my email in the chat if you want. It’s doug@szeak.com. Reach out to me and I will let you know the next time we are having a webinar on the hands-on use of the tools there. Just through the search functions in regular LinkedIn, you can start to get a feel for it. There are half a dozen criteria that you get for free. You get an idea of what that search starts to look like. By the way, it’s free for a month. If you are getting semi-serious about it- You do put your credit card in, so you have to remember to cancel or else they will hit ya. But you can get in there and play with it for free and look at what it looks like.
 The #1 thing is to fix your profile and make sure that you have your profile in a way, starting with your headline, that lets people self-qualify. If kitty rescue is your thing, put it right in there. You get the idea. That works to help people self-qualify. About half the people you send a request to that do connect with you will just say yes, but the other half will look at your profile. That turns your profile into a really important thing. You can get thousands of people looking at your profile. Start thinking about what that would cost you if you were in pay-per-click or that kind of business. Make that profile an engagement piece. Realize that literally about one out of three people that you send an invitation to- first of all, you qualified who you are, so you have a good idea they are the right kind of people. A third of those people are going to look at your profile page, and half of those people will connect with you and half of them won’t. At any rate, you could be paying ten dollars a click in a lot of niches to get people to come to your page, and you can get that for a lot less money, even with the $85 a month to LinkedIn. Headline, profile, then the search thing. Figure it out. One way or another, you can find some help on that. It’s fairly self-evident. Send your requests. Let me talk about that.
 What we found is that the best contact request is a very generic one. Once you identify a prospect, you send them something that says- I need to back up again. You can only do these contact requests to second-level connections. In other words, I know Hugh and Hugh knows Russell so I can send Russell a contact request. From that point of view, it does make a lot of sense to have thousands of potential people because every time I connect with someone like Hugh who is in the right business, I get access to his hundreds or thousands of clients that hopefully are also in the right business, not just his grandma and his aunt. You can send out those requests to second-level people.
 The wording for those things is generic. We call them by name. “Hey, Russell. We both know Hugh, or we have some mutual friends. I see we are both interested in kitty rescue. Would you be interested in connecting with me on LinkedIn?” We don’t say that we are selling them something. We don’t say we are looking for a board member. We don’t say we are looking for volunteers. We say we have mutual connections and mutual interests; would you like to connect? You will find that about 40% of the people you send that request to will connect with you. If you can get yourself in the habit of doing 100 of those a week, that is 40 new people. That is a lot of new people that you connect with every week that are now qualified. They are not random people. You searched for them by a criteria. You invited them based on a criteria. Most of them have come and looked at your profile page so they know what you’re about before they connect with you. Right there, you are halfway home. At least halfway home. You have people who know who you are, why you have asked them to connect. You have prequalified them with the search to get them in the right spot. We send that thing.
 We follow it up with a next message that is very generic that says, “Thanks for connecting with me. Looking forward to staying in touch.” Just that simple so there is an acknowledgement they have connected. You say, “Hey, I would like to know more about what you do. Do you mind if we connect outside of LinkedIn?” You can download your list of people from your contacts. You can download their phone number. You have these people at this point. You have their phone number and their email, where they work, their job title. Whatever your connection funnel is. From that point on, there is a whole different conversation: how to take people from contacts and leads into customers. That is a topic for a different day. This is the start of your sales funnel or contact funnel. With a couple of hours a day or week, you could be adding 40-50 people a week to your top end of your contact list. Now you have to have a way to deal with those people. That is a lot of people. You have to have a way to take them from Point A to Point Z. But in terms of making connections and finding who you should be connecting with, there is nothing like LinkedIn.
 Hugh: The Meyer Foundation did some research and found that 45% of nonprofit executive directors are facing burnout. 75% are looking at the door out. As you were talking, finding people with common interest, you could find people who are retired and looking for something meaningful to do who could be part of your solution. They could help manage your social media. They could take things off your plate. Putting on your weekly schedule some time to grow your sphere of influence on LinkedIn might be a good way to get your head around how to get out of this dungeon of being burned out and having too much to do. Let them help you. Ask them.
 Doug: The thing I would caution everybody on on this is not to be too general and jump ship too many times. You need to know what you want and have a way to get it. If you get into LinkedIn and say, “I want to find an executive committee of 14 people who live within 100 miles,” go do that. That will be a different conversation and profile than, “I want to tap into other nonprofits that contribute in my niche.” Don’t try and do everything at the same time. That is just a general focus thing. My wife and I have a running joke. We have grandkids. A few years ago, we watched Up, the cartoon movie. I don’t know if you have ever seen it, but in Up, there is a talking dog. In the middle of the conversation, the dog turns its head and says, “Squirrel!”
 Hugh: The dog is an entrepreneur, right?
 Doug: That is a running joke around our house and one that you could take home with you. Don’t get squirreled. Have one thing you want to do. Do it until it’s done. Then move on to the next thing. That is true with everything, including LinkedIn. If I need 20 things and am looking for 20 kinds of people, that is a way to get zero done. If you say that I want this one thing and want to go find that person, and then once I find that person, I will move on, that will work. But if halfway through, you go, Squirrel! Don’t do that. Don’t get squirreled.
 Hugh: Stay focused. That is good general advice. As far as what you are saying here, that is prudent. One of the reasons we may be burned out is we are doing the squirrel thing too much. Doug Brown, owner and manager of Newswire, which is a brilliant PR platform to get your releases out there, and this whole track with LinkedIn, you have given us amazingly useful information. Doug, if you do a webinar, let me send it to the group of people here.
 Doug: I’d be happy to do that. Thanks for the chance to talk. Everybody loves the sound of their own voice, so thank you.
 Hugh: I’m going to make you listen to it.
 Doug: I don’t love it that much.
 Hugh: Thank you so much.
 Russell: I just had someone ask me about broadcasts I’m in. I do this. I do Nonprofit Culture Success broadcasts, which are going to become more frequent. They asked me if I listen to my own podcast. I said, “No,” and they said that I should probably start. Watch what you’re doing.
 Doug: See how to make it better right.
 Hugh: Last time somebody told me, “Hugh, you ought to be on television.” I said, “Really? Why?” “So then we could turn you off.” Thanks for this broadcast, Doug. Thanks, Russ, for co-hosting with me.
 Doug: Thanks for having me guys.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 05 Jul 2017 03:12:35 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/83cb6ac2-b329-11eb-9f0f-3340de65f633/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Building Relationships with People That Matter to Your Charity</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Free LinkedIn Infographic http://szeak.com/profile-infographic/
 Contact Doug Brown doug@szeak.com
 Doug’s 5 steps for LinkedIn contacts:
  Profile Find Your “Perfect Customer”
 Contact Requests
 Contact follow-up
 Message
 Move Conversation Outside of LinkedIn
  Nonprofit Chat with Doug Brown
 The Interview Transcript
 Hugh: Greetings. Russell Dennis and Hugh Ballou are back. As normal, we are interviewing someone that has really good content. Tonight, our guest is Doug Brown. Doug is an expert in a number of areas. I have known him for a few years. Every time that I have a conversation with him, I learn a lot of stuff. I want you to take notes. There will be some infographics and other things you will be able to take advantage of. Go to nonprofitchat.org if you want to see the notes and the transcript. Doug Brown, welcome to the Tuesday nonprofit chat.
 Doug: Thanks, Hugh and Russell. It is a pleasure to be here tonight.
 Hugh: Tell us a little bit about you. You run Newswire, and you have this really secret power with LinkedIn. Give us a sense of who you are and what your skills are.
 Doug: Well, I have been in Internet marketing since there has been Internet. Our first project was in 1995, and that is about the start of Internet marketing. I have been around the Internet and trying to figure out how to capitalize on the resources there for a long time. I hate to date myself, but I wasn’t really young when I started doing that either.
 At any rate, in 2003, we started a company—I was involved when it started—of Newswire Network. Newswire is a press release distribution program. It goes to Google News. It syndicates press releases on behalf of other people across the web and in the real world also. Newswire has been a fairly successful company. It has been around for a long time. We experienced some meatier growth in the last few years, and almost all of that is attributable to what we did in LinkedIn. You and I have been talking about that a little bit, and I appreciate the chance to share what we have learned about LinkedIn and connecting and social marketing. I think all those things are applicable to anyone who is trying to form relationships and trying to monetize their relationships, whether it’s in a for-profit setting, a nonprofit setting, or just about anywhere else. That is my background. I have been in journalism and Newswire almost exclusively for the last 13 years. But like I say, part of running any business is finding people to pay you to use your service. We figured something out about LinkedIn that may not be totally unique. I am sure other people have figured out similar ways to utilize the platform, but maybe what is unique is I am willing to sit here and talk about it.
 Hugh: That’s awesome. I see a lot of people on all social media, and LinkedIn is no exception. It is social. Social means relationship. I get tired of people hammering me with stuff. The expertise that you bring to clients is how to build relationships and how to build your sphere of influence because in charities, we want to have donors, we want to have board members, we want to have volunteers, we want to have stakeholders who are participating. That ain’t going to happen if we haven’t built a relationship and understand what their passion is. Russell has spoken about that in previous sessions, about how do we connect with a passion of the people who really could serve us well. We are going to talk primarily about LinkedIn tonight…
 Doug: Let me just pick up on that and emphasize that that is exactly true. When we started seeing some growth in our business is when we decided we are going to start forming relationships with people rather than just trying to present them with *audio issue* And that is what social networking and specifically LinkedIn is great for. We talk about some of the differences between LinkedIn and other social networks. It really is social first, and you have to remember that.
 Hugh: It is. There are so many people who don’t understand that. We actually repel the people we are trying to attract. Before we get into this LinkedIn, I have some questions for you.
 Doug, let me touch on Newswire for a minute before we go to LinkedIn. Newswire.net is the site. What problem are you solving for people with Newswire.net?
 Doug: Newswire is a way to communicate your events, your news in your words to the media. Even more specifically, to your target audience. There has been a real change in the way media is consumed and distributed. Like a lot of people listening, I used to read two or three or four newspapers a day. Gee, reading three newspapers a day would take 15 minutes now because my local paper went from hundreds of pages down to maybe tens or fives of pages. News is different than it used to be. Even Google News has changed a lot in the 10 or 12 years it’s been out there. It used to be an idea that a press release was prepared and sent out to the local newspaper, the local TV station, the local whatever with the idea that it was going to be republished in the local paper. In a really few number of years, that has changed, almost because there is nobody home at the local newspaper. People consume their news online, and that is one of the great things about Newswire and Google News specifically. Newswire specializes in putting the news of our subscribers into Google News and places where they can communicate their story directly to consumers without having to hope and pray that somebody at the local paper picks it up and republishes it. We are just a publication service. We are a way for people to disseminate the news about their organizations out to the public directly.
 Hugh: I would encourage people to look at it because it’s very cost-effective. Your reach is enormous. You can audit where it shows up online so people can see all the places it’s been published.
 Doug: Through the last 15 years, Newswire has created its own weather system, so to speak. We have over 100,000 page views a day on Newswire. A typical release will get 1,000 or more views right on our site in addition to what it gets elsewhere. A lot of the views on our site come from Google News. We are indexed on Google News. People come searching for whatever keywords you happen to use, find it, come to our site, and read the post. We try to design our site in a way so that it’s sticky and people can see related stories. They may come to see someone else’s story and end up on yours. People read on average about four stories every time they visit Newswire. It’s a great way to get your information out there. Like you said, it’s very cost-effective.
 Hugh: 100,000 views a day?
 Doug: A day. Yeah.
 Hugh: You slipped that in there. Newswire.net. We will put the link in the notes for today.
 I’ve experienced your work with LinkedIn to be a refreshing change with some of these tools that people are using that says, “Hi, I’m so-and-so. Let’s have a conversation. I want to sell you something.” Let me ask you the same question with LinkedIn. This whole thing is creating your position of influence in connecting the people that matter. I reframe the stuff that you sent to me because that is what we are doing with charities. We don’t know how to get out of our own way and tell our message. There are lots of nonprofit leaders and business leaders. LinkedIn is a really good platform. What people are you solving for people with LinkedIn? Then we will go to why it’s different. Tell us what problem you’re solving for people with LinkedIn.
 Doug: The rest of the resume, the thing that I didn’t really continue on, was we were so successful in building some tools and some ways to do things for LinkedIn that we have taken a few clients that we do this process for. You know a couple people I’ve done that for. Just to continue on there, the problem that we solve through LinkedIn is we help people make the right kind of connections. We help them connect with their target audience. We sometimes call it your ideal or perfect customer. We help them identify that perfect customer and help them create a relationship with that person that over time can be turned into a business relationship of some sort or another. That could be inviting someone to participate on a board or in an event, or identifying and creating a conversation with someone you may not otherwise have had an opportunity to get in touch with. Maybe they run in a different circle or live in a different city, state, or even country for heaven’s sakes. There is half a billion people almost on LinkedIn nowadays. It’s a very different place than the other social networks. You have big numbers on Facebook that LinkedIn will never match, but the difference is that LinkedIn is all about business and for business.
 Let me throw a couple of statistics out off the top of the head. The people that live in the United States that are LinkedIn members have an average income of $110,000.
 Hugh: Oh my word.
 Doug: Yeah. Isn’t that amazing? It’s not a bunch of teenagers. It’s not people sharing kitty pictures. They are about business, and people are there to do business and to connect for business. Yes, the problem that we solve, and the mindset—without getting too far ahead of ourselves here—I’d almost venture to say that 90-some-odd percent of people who are listening to this, if you go back and look at your LinkedIn profile, it reads like a resume. Hugh, that might hit a little close to home. You and I worked on your profile a while ago.
 Hugh: Yeah, that was a paradigm shift for me.
 Doug: The first thing to recognize is that unless you are a job hunter, which is a legitimate thing to do on LinkedIn, but unless you are there to hunt for a job, your profile shouldn’t look like a resume. It shouldn’t be a resume. It should be like every other landing page. This has been something I have been doing for 20 years—like every other thing on the Internet. It ought to have benefits. What do I get out of connecting with Hugh Ballou? What’s in it for me? That’s what everybody at the end of the day wants to know: What’s in it for me? So that’s really where we start with all of the people that we deal with and where I will start with our free session tonight. Let’s make sure that your profile is something that invites the right kind of people to connect with you. Telling people that you are the CEO or Executive Director gives them no reason to want to connect with you. If you tell them what you can do for them or what you do for others, now you are starting down the right track. We can talk more specifics with that, but that is the first problem we solve. Trying to get people to use LinkedIn correctly and not as a spot to host their resumes.
 Hugh: That is a paradigm shifter right there. This has brought out potential conflict in my mind. I have a Hugh Ballou profile on LinkedIn, and I have a SynerVision Leadership Foundation page. Should I have a separate profile for SynerVision? Or is a different page under Hugh Ballou okay? Is that wrong?
 Doug: I think that’s the right way to do it. I would imagine that a lot of people on this call have connected with Hugh on LinkedIn, and if they haven’t, I invite people to go look at Hugh’s profile on LinkedIn. You will get a good idea of where to start because we spent some time thinking about that and working on it. We have an infographic we will share that gives you that information. It starts with your title. If you scroll through your friends on LinkedIn, you will see titles that say “Managing Partner, Accountant, Business Manager,” all those things. They are resume things. Those things don’t do anything for anyone. Unless they are looking to find an accountant, you better not have Accountant in your profile, even if you are the world’s greatest accountant. Even if you are an accountant and you are trying to make a profile, you probably should do something like, “I save people tax dollars,” or “I help people pay the right amount of taxes.” Give them a benefit. Don’t just give them your resume. Tell them why you are worth connecting to. Why are you worth knowing?
 Hugh: Yeah. There are people commenting on Facebook about how good this is. Shannon Gronich was here a couple weeks ago talking about her piece on publicity. You are going to be back with us on this on the 25th of July.
 Doug: I am going to shift hats and put on the PR hat.
 Hugh: You will be back here with some good folks. You helped me fine-tune the Hugh Ballou piece. So I’m thinking that I haven’t even thought about the piece for my nonprofit. That would apply to that as well, wouldn’t it?
 Doug: It kind of would. The thing you have to realize is that even if you are General Motors, your company page is not very well viewed on LinkedIn. People are on LinkedIn to find out about other people and not to find out about companies. Your company profile is in my opinion better served through your webpage, so link your profile to your webpage. If you do multiple things, link multiple web pages.
 The bottom line is still Hugh Ballou is worth knowing because of the benefits you can bring to people, not because you went to MIT. I don’t know where you went to college, I’m sorry. But your resume and where you worked last year is not why they want to know you. They want to know you because of what they can learn from you or what they can get out of you. That is what we focused on. We took a quick run through your profile the other day. That is the way it is. That is what it’s all about.
 That is what the profile is all about, letting people know the benefits, not the features. People don’t want to know the features. Nobody wants to know where you went to school, what your job title was at your last four jobs. Those are features. They are important to you and probably important to your wife, so I am not trying to take those things away from anyone. But me, Doug Brown, if I want to connect with you, I want to know what I get out of it. What do I get out of it? What are the benefits, not the features? Where you went to school, your last three job titles does not really interest me in connecting with you.
 Hugh: We had David Corbin on brand slaughter last month and David Dunworth before that. Both of them talked about how we as leaders present the brand. If I am the executive director, or if I am the founder, like I am of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, I represent that brand because we are the nurturer organization for other charities. We help people build their skills, strategy, team, and income. I find that there is so many people. I am coming to Salt Lake City. But Russ has ben a presenter in Florida and in Denver at these one-day leadership empowerment events that I do. I find that leaders are overwhelmed. They have too much on their plate. They want to connect with other people, but they have trouble getting to events. The system you have developed is really brilliant because it helps people form relationships with people who have a similar passion or similar interest, or there is a chance to collaborate and bring people together in a reasonable conversation. You pointed out that Facebook is the social stuff, the kitty pictures, the family shots, and all of that. Twitter, which I like a lot, I have 200,000 people on Twitter, and I have made some significant connections on Twitter, but it is a distinctively different niche. LinkedIn, I have not mastered. If I am hearing you right, it stands out because it’s where business people do business.
 Doug: That’s exactly right. Everything has its own spot. I have over a million followers on Twitter, but I use it really just to broadcast Newswire news. That is not the same as making connections with people. I put out news, legit news, through my Twitter feed. I don’t use Facebook at all. That is not to say there is not a spot for Facebook for lots of things, but there is not a spot for Facebook in what I think that I do. That is okay. I understand Facebook is well over a billion nowadays, so that would say that a lot of the people who are on LinkedIn are also on Facebook. I’m not trying to draw that kind of distinction and say there is no way to make meaningful relationships there. Obviously there is. But the distinction with LinkedIn is that people are there for business. If you start posting kitty pictures on LinkedIn, you will never hear the end of it. It’s not what it’s there for. It’s there about business. It’s there about being better at business, being a better business leader, finding resources. I could spew amazing statistics all day long, but 72% of business to business purchases right now are preceded by a LinkedIn search. If you are buying a copier, you are going to figure out who that is that you are buying a copier from, or you will find the copier guy. It’s about business to business. I wouldn’t take nonprofit out of that because that is still business to business with a different slant. But the principles are exactly the same. I wouldn’t draw a distinction there.
 Hugh: We have been preaching that. It’s a business. We have more rigid rules with the IRS.
 Doug: If you aren’t going to run it like a business, you won’t be around very much longer.
 Hugh: Amen. As a matter of fact, I had an interview a while ago with somebody up in Michigan, and she had looked at my LinkedIn profile. Glad I fixed it before she looked at it.
 Doug: Just to bring that home for you, whether you know it or not, 72% of the people who are going to do business with you have looked at your LinkedIn profile.
 Hugh: 72%. If somebody is going to donate to my charity, they are going to check me out.
 Doug: No question about it. And you hope they don’t check you out on LinkedIn and find your kitty pictures. You want to be a serious person that has something serious to offer, whatever your niche is. That is not the same as sharing your family fun on Facebook. Again, I’m not here to bash Facebook. There is a spot for it. If people are going to do business with you, 72% of the time they will precede that with looking at your LinkedIn profile, so it better be pretty good.
 Hugh: A different mindset.
 Doug: It fills a different purpose. To call them both social networks, while it’s true, is misleading because they are as different as night and day. Russell is agreeing with me there.
 Hugh: Let’s bring Russell in. He is radically polite, but he has good stuff to say. Russell David Dennis, weigh in. You are very successful on LinkedIn. You write blog posts. What is your experience with LinkedIn?
 Russell: I made a go at it because it was meant for business. I thought I should get serious with it. I bought some additional services with the profile so I could contact more people. I went north of 3,600 followers. They changed the look and feel, but according to the old look, they said I had what they call an All-Star profile. That is pretty good. But I connect. I have a lot of face-to-face meetings with people. I have even been in touch with people I have talked to lately. I dropped in here because I have a lot of people in here and I wanted to see how many of them fell under nonprofit. Probably about a quarter of them do. I did a company page, but it didn’t seem to have the look and feel I thought it would. It’s not like a typical web page. I managed to use Facebook to create a page and some roots, too. Everything has its place. Twitter drives traffic. The place where the rubber meets the road as far as face-to-face is LinkedIn.
 Doug: That is my experience.
 Hugh: Russell takes the edited video and puts it on his LinkedIn page. You have a following with these interviews. Give us a highlight of what that experience has been like.
 Russell: Typically about 10% of my followers will watch an average post. Most of them are 1st connections, but that is typical. It depends. When we had Thyonne Gordon talk about boards, boards are something that people are very interested in. Those particular posts have had more traction. That was the one instance where a podcast had more people go to it than the video.
 I am trying to look at putting some of our podcasts out there. I could probably go back and put some shows that we have had before because this content is evergreen. People like the podcast, and they like to download it. They can go see other podcasts. That is a habit I think I am going to get into: putting the podcast up so that people can have access to whit ile they are driving. I listen to audiobooks in the car and learn a lot in my car because I spend a lot more time than I thought about.
 Doug: It’s a great place. I am an NPR guy, but podcasts and NPR…
 Hugh: Russ, you publish articles. I want to have some dialogue with Doug. Doug, Russ is a very good writer, and he writes some very relevant stuff. He posts it on LinkedIn. He also posts on the SynerVision blog, and Doug, you are certainly invited to contribute to the magazine, Nonprofit Performance, and our blogroll on our SynerVision leadership site. Russ, you have created some articles. What do you think that does to help you connect with the tribe?
 Russell: People get a sense of what I’m thinking. More importantly, I get a sense of what sort of things people are concerned about based on the response to those articles. Typically, I have a response rate of anywhere from 3% to the article that I had the largest percentage of my followers drew about 20%. I posted that, and I don’t think I posted that on LinkedIn. It was on another site. I shared it to my LinkedIn, and the question was who is responsible for fundraising? I had quite a few comments on that. I talked about boards there. There is a lot of interest around that. People want to know how to go about finding board members who can really add some juice to what they are doing, whether that is through skills or networks. The thing that LinkedIn has is you can talk about charitable opportunities and what matters to you in the platform and let people know that you are available to sit on boards. It is a good place to shop for board members. If you can take the time to reach out to a few people and see what is on their minds, you can find out what resonates with them.
 Hugh: I want you to think about a hard question for our guest. I am going to go back to him and weigh in some of the stuff we talked about, and then we will come back and let you give him a zinger question.
 Doug: I do have a couple things that I’d like to weigh in there. I do think that it is important for you to continue to publish on LinkedIn, but don’t make the mistake of thinking that is how you are creating contact. Your contact base will grow a little bit from those things, but the truth is, and I am probably going to say something that is a little unorthodox here, we like to use LinkedIn for contacting or identifying contacts, and then our goal is to take the conversation outside of LinkedIn. I’ll tell you why that is.
 Most people, and probably including you guys and most people here, look at LinkedIn somewhat rarely. Maybe that is once a day, once a week, once a month, as opposed to your email. I finally have my telephone set to not giving emails between midnight and 5 am. Other than that, I am basically responding to emails 20+ hours a day. Most businesspeople are like that. One of our goals is to take the contacts we make on LinkedIn outside of it. I just sent you something privately in the chat, Hugh, but I have this six-step process we follow.
 The steps to making it work is to work on your headline, work on your profile; use LinkedIn to identify your perfect customer; request contact them; do one or two follow-up messages on LinkedIn; and move the contact outside of the site. We found that far more effective. Whether that’s a phone call or an email or a text, however you normally communicate. If I were to ask you, Hugh, how often you message with someone on LinkedIn, the answer will probably be, “Seldom.” What we have found and what we recognize, and those steps I just gave, are we use it to identify, we use it to connect, we use it to start a conversation, but as soon as possible, we get it outside of LinkedIn and back into the way people are used to communicating.
 Hugh: It does bring it front and center. You have shown me ways to find people in a geographic area or demographic or psychographic. You can sort people. Russ has far more advanced skills than I do. Go back to this how often I check it. Are you on LinkedIn every day? If so, how much?
 Doug: Are you asking me?
 Hugh: Outside of the work you do for other people, but personally, how long do you work it every day? Or do you work it every day?
 Doug: The answer is we do this for our salespeople. It’s a great question to ask me, but I don’t get in there as a consumer but maybe once a week. I think I’m fairly typical. Part of what we do with LinkedIn involves some of our staff all day every day, but that is different. In terms of me checking up on my friends and randomly reading posts and reading what my friends have posted, not a lot. Some, but not a lot. In that respect, I think it’s very different from Facebook. I won’t name names, but I have adult kids that spend way too much of their life in my opinion on Facebook. People don’t do that on LinkedIn. It’s not the time-killer, or as sticky as Facebook. Is that a nice way to put it? We have found by far a lot better success in using it as a tool to identify, to start a conversation, but taking the conversation outside of LinkedIn has been much more successful for us.
 Hugh: Scott Riches sends his greetings, saying, “Two of my favorites, Doug and Hugh.”
 Doug: Scott lives across the street from me, and I see him about once a blue moon. Hi, Scott.
 Hugh: He is on the webinar.
 Doug: Or come across the street and we will say hi.
 Hugh: You never know. It’s interesting, Doug. I’ll be speaking to a group, and they will point to me and say, “As you said on your podcast.” You were talking about how we influence people. It’s interesting how we impact other people with our thoughts and our comments and how it either connects to people or it doesn’t. We can have negative impact or positive impact on our social media.
 Doug: That’s another great point I want to shove home in this conversation. Hugh and I are part of a training/connecting group that I go to every month, and sometimes I go to national things a few times a year. If you are really dogged, you might meet ten people a day. You have to be really at it. The chances of one of those ten people being the right person is whatever the chances are. You can do ten times that in an hour on LinkedIn. Just the odds of connecting with the right kind of people, you can put it in hyperdrive and still take those pre-qualified leads back into how you would connect otherwise and connect outside of LinkedIn. You can use it as a huge filter. You can filter through hundreds of people instead of the people you can run into at a social event.
 Hugh: Some of the people that I know I referred to you and you started working with say they are amazed at the number of people who want to talk to them. You have done a good job of helping them present themselves in a way people want to talk to them. Those of us doing sales call them leads. But we are always, if we are running a charity- I like the word “charity” because “nonprofit” is such a stupid word even though that is the name of this thing. If we are running a charity/nonprofit, we should focus on profit, but we should focus always on cultivating relationships, maintaining the existing relationships, and continuing to build new relationships. Let me contrast the brand slaughter thing that I mentioned earlier. We can do and say anything we want as leaders, but there is negative impact. If you are in the wrong setting, that is a negative. You can post things that- like somebody we know in Washington tweets things that get in the news. That is not necessarily good for those of us running a charity. What are things we should not do on LinkedIn that have negative impact for us?
 Doug: Right off the top of my head, and I have seen this happen a couple of times in fact, one of our mutual friends really blew his entire social network apart by taking a political stand.
 Hugh: Oh yes. He told me he lost half his followers overnight.
 Doug: That is a good example of what not to do. We can be Jews or Mormons or atheists or Muslims, but that is not relevant to our business situation. We can be Republicans or Democrats. We can be anarchists; we can be anything we want to be. It’s not relevant to your business setting. Keeping those kinds of things as far away from your social- Again, that is very different than what people do in a lot of social networking settings. People have Twitter followings based on a distinct and a niche point of view. Your Facebook friends are probably down with you on some niche point of view. That is not relevant to business. What not to do: Don’t do it. Talk about your benefits in terms of what you can bring to someone in business. Keep your political views, your religious views, your sexist views, your gun views, I don’t care what it is, it’s not relevant to your business. You have to realize that every time you express a view like that, you alienate some huge portion of your potential contacts. If you are a Trump guy and spout Trump, you have now limited yourself to 38% of the people in the United States. If you are a gun guy and spout guns, you eliminate half the people. If you are an anti-gun guy and spout anti-gun stuff, you have eliminated half the people.
 Hugh: Russ spent some time working of the IRS. There are some pretty strict guidelines, unless they get changed under Trump, mentioning him, that you can’t really take a political position as a 501(c)3 because you can lose your tax exemption.
 Doug: I’m not really talking about just your- I’m talking more about your posts on LinkedIn and your profile on LinkedIn, just in terms of inviting people to connect with you. You want to be as specific as you can be in terms of your benefits, what you can do for people. You want to be as obtuse as possible about whatever your views are, realizing that whatever your most heartfelt view is will alienate half the people you could potentially connect with if you express that, no matter how dear it is to you. Unless you are selling guns, maybe. I don’t know. I hope the point is understood.
 Hugh: The point is well understood.
 Doug: I’m being facetious to some extent, but I think you get it.
 Hugh: You’re not. It’s a serious topic. We don’t take it seriously. I want to get to some tactical questions about identifying and connecting and messaging, and then I want to talk about this awesome infographic. But I want to see if Russell has come up with a really hard question for you. I want to see you sweat.
 Russell: People find out that I worked for the IRS, and I’m not nearly as scary as people want me to be.
 Hugh: He took this Colombo position in asking dumb questions, and I can picture him in that trench coat.
 Russell: It really worked best on $500 an hour attorneys, but that is another story for offline. In terms of really getting connected with people on LinkedIn and creating a message, when I started, there were people out there that I just didn’t know. I looked for people in certain niches and went out there. That was a little scattershot. I got somebody to help do that. I learned the concepts of going into groups and engaging. Now I found myself in a lot of groups. How would you parse out your engagement on LinkedIn? I have probably 40 different groups. How would you go about dividing that and conquering it? It’s almost too much of a good thing in some ways. It’s hard to be engaged in that many places. How would you go about separating that?
 Doug: I’m not a fan of groups. Maybe one or two groups if they are really specific to your niche and what you are doing. Let’s for example take the idea that you are trying to find some directors for your nonprofit. A group is not going to help you there at all. Like you said, it creates some noise that maybe you don’t need to deal with. I would unjoin every group that I was in if I were you that wasn’t specific to what you are trying to accomplish today.
 In terms of your old connections, one of the other things that I am pretty careful about and ask our guys to be pretty careful about is not to mix- One of the things that a lot of people do when they start at LinkedIn is import their address book out of their mail processor or email app. LinkedIn encourages you to do that. That gets you Mom and sisters and nieces and aunts and uncles and neighbors down the street, and all sorts of stuff that is irrelevant. You probably can’t do anything about that if you have done that already, but don’t do it anymore.
 Russell: I haven’t done that because there are too many that just don’t belong.
 Doug: The challenge is that for people who have more than one business, that is tough because you mix stuff up. But most of us have one business and one thing we are trying to accomplish. When you get a LinkedIn request from someone, unless it is someone you think you would have sought out, don’t accept it.
 There is a limit to how many LinkedIn connections you can have; it’s 30,000 right now. That may sound like a lot, but I went past that a long time ago. It’s not a lot. Over the course of a couple of years of using LinkedIn, you can easily suck up that many. Be selective about who you contact. Make sure they are people who fit your criteria. After that, they can follow you. That is when your strategy of posting comes more into play. 30,000 contacts is enough to make a lifetime out of, so use them carefully and wisely.
 I heard a little saying the other day that I will pass on: Your net worth is now your network. Your net worth is your network. Use it carefully. Don’t just accept people for whatever. There is a code you will see in LinkedIn every now and then: LION. People will put that in their profile. Stay away from those people unless you are barely starting out. LION is a LinkedIn Open Networker. That is not a bad thing. Those are the people that will connect with anybody and the idea they are trying to make a huge network with no selectivity. If people have LION in their profile, you probably want to stay away from them, not that they are bad people. They are not specific. You only have 30,000 of them. Russ, you’re sitting there at 3,500, and Hugh, I remember you are at 5 or 6,000. 30,000 may seem like a long ways away, but it’s not. Use them carefully. Maybe someday LinkedIn will open that back up a little bit more.
 Hugh: I didn’t realize that. I wondered if there was a cap. Before I go to the tactical questions, let’s talk about the kinds of relationships we want to cultivate. I could say we could create a peer-to-peer group with other nonprofit directors who are having the same problems that would be a support group, maybe a mastermind connection. I could see we could connect with businesspeople geographically that could be candidates for our boards. I could see that we could connect with marketing people in companies to start talking about how it would benefit their brand to be a sponsor for our nonprofit. Do you have any comments on those, or are there other kinds of connections people might want to make?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                
 Doug: You might go directly for people that share your interests, whatever the interest is of your nonprofit. If you are in kitty rescue, out of half a billion people, you can find a lot of people that share your specific interest. If it’s macramé that is your interest, you will find thousands of people who love macramé. If you are doing great work in a niche, then you want to connect with other people who are interested in that niche and see where it goes. Some might be donors, some might be business partners, some might be board members. As long as someone shares your interest, that is a great place to start. It’d be hard to name another place that gives you another way to search for people that shares- Whatever esoteric interest you might have, you can find a list of people on LinkedIn that self-classify as sharing that interest.
 Hugh: That’s a good segue. We have a quarter of our interview left here. How do we identify those connections, and how do we contact them? How do we use the messaging piece to stay in touch with them?
 Doug: There are a bunch of questions there. Let’s talk about them one at a time. Let’s go fairly quickly. Let’s put up the infographic and talk about it in the barest details for a minute or two.
 Hugh: There is a downloadable brilliant infographic.
 Doug: This thing is about five times as tall as it is wide. You are only seeing a portion of it. This first portion has some important things. Russell, you used to pay for that background image, and now everyone gets that for free. You can put a background picture here in your profile. You need to put a good business picture in your profile. It is just astounding that people are four times as likely to connect with someone who has an image than with someone who doesn’t have an image.
 Then the headline- that is the most important thing. This one is “I help B2B companies save money through outsourcing solutions.” That is a silly example, but the important things are there. You have identified who you help and how you help them. That is the important part of the headline. That will let people self-qualify as to whether or not they want to connect with you and whether or not you want to connect with them. If people know what you do and what you do it for and want to connect with you, then you are halfway home. They already know what you’re about, and if they want to connect with you after they know what you’re about, then you at least have a start. If you say you’re an accountant, you might get other people who want to connect with you because they want to be part of the brotherhood of accountants, but that is a long way from having someone who wants to do business with your nonprofit. I’m going to leave it at that and let everybody go through the download themselves. On the website, there is a post about doing headlines. I can’t think of anything more important than your headline. There is a place that calls them Snaps. Whatever you call a headline, an elevator pitch, whatever it is, you should be able to communicate what you do, who you do it for, and what they get out of it in a few words. You should put that as a bumper sticker, on your business card, tattoo it on your forehead, whatever. But they might be the most important 10-12 words you ever come up with in your life. For lots of different things, not just your LinkedIn profile. Feel free to download that infographic and play with it, and that website has more pieces that might be helpful to you.
 Hugh: That is an interesting name. Szeak. How do you say that?
 Doug: Szeak.
 Hugh: This will all be in the show notes. Does that mean anything?
 Doug: Nope. It’s a five-letter domain.
 Hugh: Give us some tips on how to find people.
 Doug: There are tools inside of LinkedIn. Russell, I think you were making a reference to this also, but if you are going to get serious about LinkedIn, you need to pay for one of their premium programs, which is called Sales Navigator. They may have changed the name on it now, but it’s a program inside of LinkedIn. It’s $80 a month. You can do most of the same stuff without paying for that, but LinkedIn will throttle you down. LinkedIn will only let you do so many contact requests. I don’t know what the number is. It’s probably a couple hundred a month, whereas if you pay them, they are more than willing to let you do as much as you want within some reason. This isn’t the time, and it’s not graphical enough for me to teach you how to do that right now, but there are lots of good tutorials on LinkedIn about searching.
 There are actually 24 criteria in Sales Navigator that you can search on. One of them is Ebullient Search, which means you can use plus, minus, words, quote marks, all those things. You can do a lot more than just the 24 things. They are things like geography and job title and number of employees and those kinds of things, which are all great. But you can add Ebullient Search to that. If kitty rescue is your thing, you can find thousands of people who have that in their profile. Again, I’m not trying to be flippant. It doesn’t matter what your niche is. You can use LinkedIn searching to identify other people who have that same interest.
 Hugh: That is a powerful tool.
 Doug: It’s unbelievable.
 Hugh: I got that navigator for a little while, but I couldn’t figure it out, so I stopped it. Now I have to go back and find some tutorials. If I heard you right, there are tutorials on LinkedIn on how to do this?
 Doug: There are. We occasionally run webinars, too. You can put my email in the chat if you want. It’s doug@szeak.com. Reach out to me and I will let you know the next time we are having a webinar on the hands-on use of the tools there. Just through the search functions in regular LinkedIn, you can start to get a feel for it. There are half a dozen criteria that you get for free. You get an idea of what that search starts to look like. By the way, it’s free for a month. If you are getting semi-serious about it- You do put your credit card in, so you have to remember to cancel or else they will hit ya. But you can get in there and play with it for free and look at what it looks like.
 The #1 thing is to fix your profile and make sure that you have your profile in a way, starting with your headline, that lets people self-qualify. If kitty rescue is your thing, put it right in there. You get the idea. That works to help people self-qualify. About half the people you send a request to that do connect with you will just say yes, but the other half will look at your profile. That turns your profile into a really important thing. You can get thousands of people looking at your profile. Start thinking about what that would cost you if you were in pay-per-click or that kind of business. Make that profile an engagement piece. Realize that literally about one out of three people that you send an invitation to- first of all, you qualified who you are, so you have a good idea they are the right kind of people. A third of those people are going to look at your profile page, and half of those people will connect with you and half of them won’t. At any rate, you could be paying ten dollars a click in a lot of niches to get people to come to your page, and you can get that for a lot less money, even with the $85 a month to LinkedIn. Headline, profile, then the search thing. Figure it out. One way or another, you can find some help on that. It’s fairly self-evident. Send your requests. Let me talk about that.
 What we found is that the best contact request is a very generic one. Once you identify a prospect, you send them something that says- I need to back up again. You can only do these contact requests to second-level connections. In other words, I know Hugh and Hugh knows Russell so I can send Russell a contact request. From that point of view, it does make a lot of sense to have thousands of potential people because every time I connect with someone like Hugh who is in the right business, I get access to his hundreds or thousands of clients that hopefully are also in the right business, not just his grandma and his aunt. You can send out those requests to second-level people.
 The wording for those things is generic. We call them by name. “Hey, Russell. We both know Hugh, or we have some mutual friends. I see we are both interested in kitty rescue. Would you be interested in connecting with me on LinkedIn?” We don’t say that we are selling them something. We don’t say we are looking for a board member. We don’t say we are looking for volunteers. We say we have mutual connections and mutual interests; would you like to connect? You will find that about 40% of the people you send that request to will connect with you. If you can get yourself in the habit of doing 100 of those a week, that is 40 new people. That is a lot of new people that you connect with every week that are now qualified. They are not random people. You searched for them by a criteria. You invited them based on a criteria. Most of them have come and looked at your profile page so they know what you’re about before they connect with you. Right there, you are halfway home. At least halfway home. You have people who know who you are, why you have asked them to connect. You have prequalified them with the search to get them in the right spot. We send that thing.
 We follow it up with a next message that is very generic that says, “Thanks for connecting with me. Looking forward to staying in touch.” Just that simple so there is an acknowledgement they have connected. You say, “Hey, I would like to know more about what you do. Do you mind if we connect outside of LinkedIn?” You can download your list of people from your contacts. You can download their phone number. You have these people at this point. You have their phone number and their email, where they work, their job title. Whatever your connection funnel is. From that point on, there is a whole different conversation: how to take people from contacts and leads into customers. That is a topic for a different day. This is the start of your sales funnel or contact funnel. With a couple of hours a day or week, you could be adding 40-50 people a week to your top end of your contact list. Now you have to have a way to deal with those people. That is a lot of people. You have to have a way to take them from Point A to Point Z. But in terms of making connections and finding who you should be connecting with, there is nothing like LinkedIn.
 Hugh: The Meyer Foundation did some research and found that 45% of nonprofit executive directors are facing burnout. 75% are looking at the door out. As you were talking, finding people with common interest, you could find people who are retired and looking for something meaningful to do who could be part of your solution. They could help manage your social media. They could take things off your plate. Putting on your weekly schedule some time to grow your sphere of influence on LinkedIn might be a good way to get your head around how to get out of this dungeon of being burned out and having too much to do. Let them help you. Ask them.
 Doug: The thing I would caution everybody on on this is not to be too general and jump ship too many times. You need to know what you want and have a way to get it. If you get into LinkedIn and say, “I want to find an executive committee of 14 people who live within 100 miles,” go do that. That will be a different conversation and profile than, “I want to tap into other nonprofits that contribute in my niche.” Don’t try and do everything at the same time. That is just a general focus thing. My wife and I have a running joke. We have grandkids. A few years ago, we watched Up, the cartoon movie. I don’t know if you have ever seen it, but in Up, there is a talking dog. In the middle of the conversation, the dog turns its head and says, “Squirrel!”
 Hugh: The dog is an entrepreneur, right?
 Doug: That is a running joke around our house and one that you could take home with you. Don’t get squirreled. Have one thing you want to do. Do it until it’s done. Then move on to the next thing. That is true with everything, including LinkedIn. If I need 20 things and am looking for 20 kinds of people, that is a way to get zero done. If you say that I want this one thing and want to go find that person, and then once I find that person, I will move on, that will work. But if halfway through, you go, Squirrel! Don’t do that. Don’t get squirreled.
 Hugh: Stay focused. That is good general advice. As far as what you are saying here, that is prudent. One of the reasons we may be burned out is we are doing the squirrel thing too much. Doug Brown, owner and manager of Newswire, which is a brilliant PR platform to get your releases out there, and this whole track with LinkedIn, you have given us amazingly useful information. Doug, if you do a webinar, let me send it to the group of people here.
 Doug: I’d be happy to do that. Thanks for the chance to talk. Everybody loves the sound of their own voice, so thank you.
 Hugh: I’m going to make you listen to it.
 Doug: I don’t love it that much.
 Hugh: Thank you so much.
 Russell: I just had someone ask me about broadcasts I’m in. I do this. I do Nonprofit Culture Success broadcasts, which are going to become more frequent. They asked me if I listen to my own podcast. I said, “No,” and they said that I should probably start. Watch what you’re doing.
 Doug: See how to make it better right.
 Hugh: Last time somebody told me, “Hugh, you ought to be on television.” I said, “Really? Why?” “So then we could turn you off.” Thanks for this broadcast, Doug. Thanks, Russ, for co-hosting with me.
 Doug: Thanks for having me guys.
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        <![CDATA[<p>Free LinkedIn Infographic <a href="http://szeak.com/profile-infographic/">http://szeak.com/profile-infographic/</a></p> <p>Contact Doug Brown <a href="mailto:doug@szeak.com">doug@szeak.com</a></p> <p>Doug’s 5 steps for LinkedIn contacts:</p> <ol> <li>Profile Find Your “Perfect Customer”</li> <li>Contact Requests</li> <li>Contact follow-up</li> <li>Message</li> <li>Move Conversation Outside of LinkedIn</li> </ol> <p><strong>Nonprofit Chat with Doug Brown</strong></p> <p><strong>The Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Greetings. Russell Dennis and Hugh Ballou are back. As normal, we are interviewing someone that has really good content. Tonight, our guest is Doug Brown. Doug is an expert in a number of areas. I have known him for a few years. Every time that I have a conversation with him, I learn a lot of stuff. I want you to take notes. There will be some infographics and other things you will be able to take advantage of. Go to nonprofitchat.org if you want to see the notes and the transcript. Doug Brown, welcome to the Tuesday nonprofit chat.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Thanks, Hugh and Russell. It is a pleasure to be here tonight.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Tell us a little bit about you. You run Newswire, and you have this really secret power with LinkedIn. Give us a sense of who you are and what your skills are.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Well, I have been in Internet marketing since there has been Internet. Our first project was in 1995, and that is about the start of Internet marketing. I have been around the Internet and trying to figure out how to capitalize on the resources there for a long time. I hate to date myself, but I wasn’t really young when I started doing that either.</p> <p>At any rate, in 2003, we started a company—I was involved when it started—of Newswire Network. Newswire is a press release distribution program. It goes to Google News. It syndicates press releases on behalf of other people across the web and in the real world also. Newswire has been a fairly successful company. It has been around for a long time. We experienced some meatier growth in the last few years, and almost all of that is attributable to what we did in LinkedIn. You and I have been talking about that a little bit, and I appreciate the chance to share what we have learned about LinkedIn and connecting and social marketing. I think all those things are applicable to anyone who is trying to form relationships and trying to monetize their relationships, whether it’s in a for-profit setting, a nonprofit setting, or just about anywhere else. That is my background. I have been in journalism and Newswire almost exclusively for the last 13 years. But like I say, part of running any business is finding people to pay you to use your service. We figured something out about LinkedIn that may not be totally unique. I am sure other people have figured out similar ways to utilize the platform, but maybe what is unique is I am willing to sit here and talk about it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s awesome. I see a lot of people on all social media, and LinkedIn is no exception. It is social. Social means relationship. I get tired of people hammering me with stuff. The expertise that you bring to clients is how to build relationships and how to build your sphere of influence because in charities, we want to have donors, we want to have board members, we want to have volunteers, we want to have stakeholders who are participating. That ain’t going to happen if we haven’t built a relationship and understand what their passion is. Russell has spoken about that in previous sessions, about how do we connect with a passion of the people who really could serve us well. We are going to talk primarily about LinkedIn tonight…</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Let me just pick up on that and emphasize that that is exactly true. When we started seeing some growth in our business is when we decided we are going to start forming relationships with people rather than just trying to present them with *audio issue* And that is what social networking and specifically LinkedIn is great for. We talk about some of the differences between LinkedIn and other social networks. It really is social first, and you have to remember that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It is. There are so many people who don’t understand that. We actually repel the people we are trying to attract. Before we get into this LinkedIn, I have some questions for you.</p> <p>Doug, let me touch on Newswire for a minute before we go to LinkedIn. Newswire.net is the site. What problem are you solving for people with Newswire.net?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Newswire is a way to communicate your events, your news in your words to the media. Even more specifically, to your target audience. There has been a real change in the way media is consumed and distributed. Like a lot of people listening, I used to read two or three or four newspapers a day. Gee, reading three newspapers a day would take 15 minutes now because my local paper went from hundreds of pages down to maybe tens or fives of pages. News is different than it used to be. Even Google News has changed a lot in the 10 or 12 years it’s been out there. It used to be an idea that a press release was prepared and sent out to the local newspaper, the local TV station, the local whatever with the idea that it was going to be republished in the local paper. In a really few number of years, that has changed, almost because there is nobody home at the local newspaper. People consume their news online, and that is one of the great things about Newswire and Google News specifically. Newswire specializes in putting the news of our subscribers into Google News and places where they can communicate their story directly to consumers without having to hope and pray that somebody at the local paper picks it up and republishes it. We are just a publication service. We are a way for people to disseminate the news about their organizations out to the public directly.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I would encourage people to look at it because it’s very cost-effective. Your reach is enormous. You can audit where it shows up online so people can see all the places it’s been published.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Through the last 15 years, Newswire has created its own weather system, so to speak. We have over 100,000 page views a day on Newswire. A typical release will get 1,000 or more views right on our site in addition to what it gets elsewhere. A lot of the views on our site come from Google News. We are indexed on Google News. People come searching for whatever keywords you happen to use, find it, come to our site, and read the post. We try to design our site in a way so that it’s sticky and people can see related stories. They may come to see someone else’s story and end up on yours. People read on average about four stories every time they visit Newswire. It’s a great way to get your information out there. Like you said, it’s very cost-effective.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> 100,000 views a day?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> A day. Yeah.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You slipped that in there. Newswire.net. We will put the link in the notes for today.</p> <p>I’ve experienced your work with LinkedIn to be a refreshing change with some of these tools that people are using that says, “Hi, I’m so-and-so. Let’s have a conversation. I want to sell you something.” Let me ask you the same question with LinkedIn. This whole thing is creating your position of influence in connecting the people that matter. I reframe the stuff that you sent to me because that is what we are doing with charities. We don’t know how to get out of our own way and tell our message. There are lots of nonprofit leaders and business leaders. LinkedIn is a really good platform. What people are you solving for people with LinkedIn? Then we will go to why it’s different. Tell us what problem you’re solving for people with LinkedIn.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> The rest of the resume, the thing that I didn’t really continue on, was we were so successful in building some tools and some ways to do things for LinkedIn that we have taken a few clients that we do this process for. You know a couple people I’ve done that for. Just to continue on there, the problem that we solve through LinkedIn is we help people make the right kind of connections. We help them connect with their target audience. We sometimes call it your ideal or perfect customer. We help them identify that perfect customer and help them create a relationship with that person that over time can be turned into a business relationship of some sort or another. That could be inviting someone to participate on a board or in an event, or identifying and creating a conversation with someone you may not otherwise have had an opportunity to get in touch with. Maybe they run in a different circle or live in a different city, state, or even country for heaven’s sakes. There is half a billion people almost on LinkedIn nowadays. It’s a very different place than the other social networks. You have big numbers on Facebook that LinkedIn will never match, but the difference is that LinkedIn is all about business and for business.</p> <p>Let me throw a couple of statistics out off the top of the head. The people that live in the United States that are LinkedIn members have an average income of $110,000.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my word.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Yeah. Isn’t that amazing? It’s not a bunch of teenagers. It’s not people sharing kitty pictures. They are about business, and people are there to do business and to connect for business. Yes, the problem that we solve, and the mindset—without getting too far ahead of ourselves here—I’d almost venture to say that 90-some-odd percent of people who are listening to this, if you go back and look at your LinkedIn profile, it reads like a resume. Hugh, that might hit a little close to home. You and I worked on your profile a while ago.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yeah, that was a paradigm shift for me.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> The first thing to recognize is that unless you are a job hunter, which is a legitimate thing to do on LinkedIn, but unless you are there to hunt for a job, your profile shouldn’t look like a resume. It shouldn’t be a resume. It should be like every other landing page. This has been something I have been doing for 20 years—like every other thing on the Internet. It ought to have benefits. What do I get out of connecting with Hugh Ballou? What’s in it for me? That’s what everybody at the end of the day wants to know: What’s in it for me? So that’s really where we start with all of the people that we deal with and where I will start with our free session tonight. Let’s make sure that your profile is something that invites the right kind of people to connect with you. Telling people that you are the CEO or Executive Director gives them no reason to want to connect with you. If you tell them what you can do for them or what you do for others, now you are starting down the right track. We can talk more specifics with that, but that is the first problem we solve. Trying to get people to use LinkedIn correctly and not as a spot to host their resumes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is a paradigm shifter right there. This has brought out potential conflict in my mind. I have a Hugh Ballou profile on LinkedIn, and I have a SynerVision Leadership Foundation page. Should I have a separate profile for SynerVision? Or is a different page under Hugh Ballou okay? Is that wrong?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> I think that’s the right way to do it. I would imagine that a lot of people on this call have connected with Hugh on LinkedIn, and if they haven’t, I invite people to go look at Hugh’s profile on LinkedIn. You will get a good idea of where to start because we spent some time thinking about that and working on it. We have an infographic we will share that gives you that information. It starts with your title. If you scroll through your friends on LinkedIn, you will see titles that say “Managing Partner, Accountant, Business Manager,” all those things. They are resume things. Those things don’t do anything for anyone. Unless they are looking to find an accountant, you better not have Accountant in your profile, even if you are the world’s greatest accountant. Even if you are an accountant and you are trying to make a profile, you probably should do something like, “I save people tax dollars,” or “I help people pay the right amount of taxes.” Give them a benefit. Don’t just give them your resume. Tell them why you are worth connecting to. Why are you worth knowing?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yeah. There are people commenting on Facebook about how good this is. Shannon Gronich was here a couple weeks ago talking about her piece on publicity. You are going to be back with us on this on the 25th of July.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> I am going to shift hats and put on the PR hat.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You will be back here with some good folks. You helped me fine-tune the Hugh Ballou piece. So I’m thinking that I haven’t even thought about the piece for my nonprofit. That would apply to that as well, wouldn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> It kind of would. The thing you have to realize is that even if you are General Motors, your company page is not very well viewed on LinkedIn. People are on LinkedIn to find out about other people and not to find out about companies. Your company profile is in my opinion better served through your webpage, so link your profile to your webpage. If you do multiple things, link multiple web pages.</p> <p>The bottom line is still Hugh Ballou is worth knowing because of the benefits you can bring to people, not because you went to MIT. I don’t know where you went to college, I’m sorry. But your resume and where you worked last year is not why they want to know you. They want to know you because of what they can learn from you or what they can get out of you. That is what we focused on. We took a quick run through your profile the other day. That is the way it is. That is what it’s all about.</p> <p>That is what the profile is all about, letting people know the benefits, not the features. People don’t want to know the features. Nobody wants to know where you went to school, what your job title was at your last four jobs. Those are features. They are important to you and probably important to your wife, so I am not trying to take those things away from anyone. But me, Doug Brown, if I want to connect with you, I want to know what I get out of it. What do I get out of it? What are the benefits, not the features? Where you went to school, your last three job titles does not really interest me in connecting with you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We had David Corbin on brand slaughter last month and David Dunworth before that. Both of them talked about how we as leaders present the brand. If I am the executive director, or if I am the founder, like I am of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, I represent that brand because we are the nurturer organization for other charities. We help people build their skills, strategy, team, and income. I find that there is so many people. I am coming to Salt Lake City. But Russ has ben a presenter in Florida and in Denver at these one-day leadership empowerment events that I do. I find that leaders are overwhelmed. They have too much on their plate. They want to connect with other people, but they have trouble getting to events. The system you have developed is really brilliant because it helps people form relationships with people who have a similar passion or similar interest, or there is a chance to collaborate and bring people together in a reasonable conversation. You pointed out that Facebook is the social stuff, the kitty pictures, the family shots, and all of that. Twitter, which I like a lot, I have 200,000 people on Twitter, and I have made some significant connections on Twitter, but it is a distinctively different niche. LinkedIn, I have not mastered. If I am hearing you right, it stands out because it’s where business people do business.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> That’s exactly right. Everything has its own spot. I have over a million followers on Twitter, but I use it really just to broadcast Newswire news. That is not the same as making connections with people. I put out news, legit news, through my Twitter feed. I don’t use Facebook at all. That is not to say there is not a spot for Facebook for lots of things, but there is not a spot for Facebook in what I think that I do. That is okay. I understand Facebook is well over a billion nowadays, so that would say that a lot of the people who are on LinkedIn are also on Facebook. I’m not trying to draw that kind of distinction and say there is no way to make meaningful relationships there. Obviously there is. But the distinction with LinkedIn is that people are there for business. If you start posting kitty pictures on LinkedIn, you will never hear the end of it. It’s not what it’s there for. It’s there about business. It’s there about being better at business, being a better business leader, finding resources. I could spew amazing statistics all day long, but 72% of business to business purchases right now are preceded by a LinkedIn search. If you are buying a copier, you are going to figure out who that is that you are buying a copier from, or you will find the copier guy. It’s about business to business. I wouldn’t take nonprofit out of that because that is still business to business with a different slant. But the principles are exactly the same. I wouldn’t draw a distinction there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We have been preaching that. It’s a business. We have more rigid rules with the IRS.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> If you aren’t going to run it like a business, you won’t be around very much longer.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Amen. As a matter of fact, I had an interview a while ago with somebody up in Michigan, and she had looked at my LinkedIn profile. Glad I fixed it before she looked at it.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Just to bring that home for you, whether you know it or not, 72% of the people who are going to do business with you have looked at your LinkedIn profile.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> 72%. If somebody is going to donate to my charity, they are going to check me out.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> No question about it. And you hope they don’t check you out on LinkedIn and find your kitty pictures. You want to be a serious person that has something serious to offer, whatever your niche is. That is not the same as sharing your family fun on Facebook. Again, I’m not here to bash Facebook. There is a spot for it. If people are going to do business with you, 72% of the time they will precede that with looking at your LinkedIn profile, so it better be pretty good.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A different mindset.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> It fills a different purpose. To call them both social networks, while it’s true, is misleading because they are as different as night and day. Russell is agreeing with me there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Let’s bring Russell in. He is radically polite, but he has good stuff to say. Russell David Dennis, weigh in. You are very successful on LinkedIn. You write blog posts. What is your experience with LinkedIn?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I made a go at it because it was meant for business. I thought I should get serious with it. I bought some additional services with the profile so I could contact more people. I went north of 3,600 followers. They changed the look and feel, but according to the old look, they said I had what they call an All-Star profile. That is pretty good. But I connect. I have a lot of face-to-face meetings with people. I have even been in touch with people I have talked to lately. I dropped in here because I have a lot of people in here and I wanted to see how many of them fell under nonprofit. Probably about a quarter of them do. I did a company page, but it didn’t seem to have the look and feel I thought it would. It’s not like a typical web page. I managed to use Facebook to create a page and some roots, too. Everything has its place. Twitter drives traffic. The place where the rubber meets the road as far as face-to-face is LinkedIn.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> That is my experience.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell takes the edited video and puts it on his LinkedIn page. You have a following with these interviews. Give us a highlight of what that experience has been like.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Typically about 10% of my followers will watch an average post. Most of them are 1st connections, but that is typical. It depends. When we had Thyonne Gordon talk about boards, boards are something that people are very interested in. Those particular posts have had more traction. That was the one instance where a podcast had more people go to it than the video.</p> <p>I am trying to look at putting some of our podcasts out there. I could probably go back and put some shows that we have had before because this content is evergreen. People like the podcast, and they like to download it. They can go see other podcasts. That is a habit I think I am going to get into: putting the podcast up so that people can have access to whit ile they are driving. I listen to audiobooks in the car and learn a lot in my car because I spend a lot more time than I thought about.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> It’s a great place. I am an NPR guy, but podcasts and NPR…</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, you publish articles. I want to have some dialogue with Doug. Doug, Russ is a very good writer, and he writes some very relevant stuff. He posts it on LinkedIn. He also posts on the SynerVision blog, and Doug, you are certainly invited to contribute to the magazine, <em>Nonprofit Performance,</em> and our blogroll on our SynerVision leadership site. Russ, you have created some articles. What do you think that does to help you connect with the tribe?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> People get a sense of what I’m thinking. More importantly, I get a sense of what sort of things people are concerned about based on the response to those articles. Typically, I have a response rate of anywhere from 3% to the article that I had the largest percentage of my followers drew about 20%. I posted that, and I don’t think I posted that on LinkedIn. It was on another site. I shared it to my LinkedIn, and the question was who is responsible for fundraising? I had quite a few comments on that. I talked about boards there. There is a lot of interest around that. People want to know how to go about finding board members who can really add some juice to what they are doing, whether that is through skills or networks. The thing that LinkedIn has is you can talk about charitable opportunities and what matters to you in the platform and let people know that you are available to sit on boards. It is a good place to shop for board members. If you can take the time to reach out to a few people and see what is on their minds, you can find out what resonates with them.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want you to think about a hard question for our guest. I am going to go back to him and weigh in some of the stuff we talked about, and then we will come back and let you give him a zinger question.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> I do have a couple things that I’d like to weigh in there. I do think that it is important for you to continue to publish on LinkedIn, but don’t make the mistake of thinking that is how you are creating contact. Your contact base will grow a little bit from those things, but the truth is, and I am probably going to say something that is a little unorthodox here, we like to use LinkedIn for contacting or identifying contacts, and then our goal is to take the conversation outside of LinkedIn. I’ll tell you why that is.</p> <p>Most people, and probably including you guys and most people here, look at LinkedIn somewhat rarely. Maybe that is once a day, once a week, once a month, as opposed to your email. I finally have my telephone set to not giving emails between midnight and 5 am. Other than that, I am basically responding to emails 20+ hours a day. Most businesspeople are like that. One of our goals is to take the contacts we make on LinkedIn outside of it. I just sent you something privately in the chat, Hugh, but I have this six-step process we follow.</p> <p>The steps to making it work is to work on your headline, work on your profile; use LinkedIn to identify your perfect customer; request contact them; do one or two follow-up messages on LinkedIn; and move the contact outside of the site. We found that far more effective. Whether that’s a phone call or an email or a text, however you normally communicate. If I were to ask you, Hugh, how often you message with someone on LinkedIn, the answer will probably be, “Seldom.” What we have found and what we recognize, and those steps I just gave, are we use it to identify, we use it to connect, we use it to start a conversation, but as soon as possible, we get it outside of LinkedIn and back into the way people are used to communicating.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It does bring it front and center. You have shown me ways to find people in a geographic area or demographic or psychographic. You can sort people. Russ has far more advanced skills than I do. Go back to this how often I check it. Are you on LinkedIn every day? If so, how much?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Are you asking me?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Outside of the work you do for other people, but personally, how long do you work it every day? Or do you work it every day?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> The answer is we do this for our salespeople. It’s a great question to ask me, but I don’t get in there as a consumer but maybe once a week. I think I’m fairly typical. Part of what we do with LinkedIn involves some of our staff all day every day, but that is different. In terms of me checking up on my friends and randomly reading posts and reading what my friends have posted, not a lot. Some, but not a lot. In that respect, I think it’s very different from Facebook. I won’t name names, but I have adult kids that spend way too much of their life in my opinion on Facebook. People don’t do that on LinkedIn. It’s not the time-killer, or as sticky as Facebook. Is that a nice way to put it? We have found by far a lot better success in using it as a tool to identify, to start a conversation, but taking the conversation outside of LinkedIn has been much more successful for us.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Scott Riches sends his greetings, saying, “Two of my favorites, Doug and Hugh.”</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Scott lives across the street from me, and I see him about once a blue moon. Hi, Scott.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> He is on the webinar.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Or come across the street and we will say hi.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You never know. It’s interesting, Doug. I’ll be speaking to a group, and they will point to me and say, “As you said on your podcast.” You were talking about how we influence people. It’s interesting how we impact other people with our thoughts and our comments and how it either connects to people or it doesn’t. We can have negative impact or positive impact on our social media.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> That’s another great point I want to shove home in this conversation. Hugh and I are part of a training/connecting group that I go to every month, and sometimes I go to national things a few times a year. If you are really dogged, you might meet ten people a day. You have to be really at it. The chances of one of those ten people being the right person is whatever the chances are. You can do ten times that in an hour on LinkedIn. Just the odds of connecting with the right kind of people, you can put it in hyperdrive and still take those pre-qualified leads back into how you would connect otherwise and connect outside of LinkedIn. You can use it as a huge filter. You can filter through hundreds of people instead of the people you can run into at a social event.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Some of the people that I know I referred to you and you started working with say they are amazed at the number of people who want to talk to them. You have done a good job of helping them present themselves in a way people want to talk to them. Those of us doing sales call them leads. But we are always, if we are running a charity- I like the word “charity” because “nonprofit” is such a stupid word even though that is the name of this thing. If we are running a charity/nonprofit, we should focus on profit, but we should focus always on cultivating relationships, maintaining the existing relationships, and continuing to build new relationships. Let me contrast the brand slaughter thing that I mentioned earlier. We can do and say anything we want as leaders, but there is negative impact. If you are in the wrong setting, that is a negative. You can post things that- like somebody we know in Washington tweets things that get in the news. That is not necessarily good for those of us running a charity. What are things we should not do on LinkedIn that have negative impact for us?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Right off the top of my head, and I have seen this happen a couple of times in fact, one of our mutual friends really blew his entire social network apart by taking a political stand.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh yes. He told me he lost half his followers overnight.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> That is a good example of what not to do. We can be Jews or Mormons or atheists or Muslims, but that is not relevant to our business situation. We can be Republicans or Democrats. We can be anarchists; we can be anything we want to be. It’s not relevant to your business setting. Keeping those kinds of things as far away from your social- Again, that is very different than what people do in a lot of social networking settings. People have Twitter followings based on a distinct and a niche point of view. Your Facebook friends are probably down with you on some niche point of view. That is not relevant to business. What not to do: Don’t do it. Talk about your benefits in terms of what you can bring to someone in business. Keep your political views, your religious views, your sexist views, your gun views, I don’t care what it is, it’s not relevant to your business. You have to realize that every time you express a view like that, you alienate some huge portion of your potential contacts. If you are a Trump guy and spout Trump, you have now limited yourself to 38% of the people in the United States. If you are a gun guy and spout guns, you eliminate half the people. If you are an anti-gun guy and spout anti-gun stuff, you have eliminated half the people.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ spent some time working of the IRS. There are some pretty strict guidelines, unless they get changed under Trump, mentioning him, that you can’t really take a political position as a 501(c)3 because you can lose your tax exemption.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> I’m not really talking about just your- I’m talking more about your posts on LinkedIn and your profile on LinkedIn, just in terms of inviting people to connect with you. You want to be as specific as you can be in terms of your benefits, what you can do for people. You want to be as obtuse as possible about whatever your views are, realizing that whatever your most heartfelt view is will alienate half the people you could potentially connect with if you express that, no matter how dear it is to you. Unless you are selling guns, maybe. I don’t know. I hope the point is understood.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The point is well understood.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> I’m being facetious to some extent, but I think you get it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re not. It’s a serious topic. We don’t take it seriously. I want to get to some tactical questions about identifying and connecting and messaging, and then I want to talk about this awesome infographic. But I want to see if Russell has come up with a really hard question for you. I want to see you sweat.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> People find out that I worked for the IRS, and I’m not nearly as scary as people want me to be.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> He took this Colombo position in asking dumb questions, and I can picture him in that trench coat.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It really worked best on $500 an hour attorneys, but that is another story for offline. In terms of really getting connected with people on LinkedIn and creating a message, when I started, there were people out there that I just didn’t know. I looked for people in certain niches and went out there. That was a little scattershot. I got somebody to help do that. I learned the concepts of going into groups and engaging. Now I found myself in a lot of groups. How would you parse out your engagement on LinkedIn? I have probably 40 different groups. How would you go about dividing that and conquering it? It’s almost too much of a good thing in some ways. It’s hard to be engaged in that many places. How would you go about separating that?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> I’m not a fan of groups. Maybe one or two groups if they are really specific to your niche and what you are doing. Let’s for example take the idea that you are trying to find some directors for your nonprofit. A group is not going to help you there at all. Like you said, it creates some noise that maybe you don’t need to deal with. I would unjoin every group that I was in if I were you that wasn’t specific to what you are trying to accomplish today.</p> <p>In terms of your old connections, one of the other things that I am pretty careful about and ask our guys to be pretty careful about is not to mix- One of the things that a lot of people do when they start at LinkedIn is import their address book out of their mail processor or email app. LinkedIn encourages you to do that. That gets you Mom and sisters and nieces and aunts and uncles and neighbors down the street, and all sorts of stuff that is irrelevant. You probably can’t do anything about that if you have done that already, but don’t do it anymore.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I haven’t done that because there are too many that just don’t belong.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> The challenge is that for people who have more than one business, that is tough because you mix stuff up. But most of us have one business and one thing we are trying to accomplish. When you get a LinkedIn request from someone, unless it is someone you think you would have sought out, don’t accept it.</p> <p>There is a limit to how many LinkedIn connections you can have; it’s 30,000 right now. That may sound like a lot, but I went past that a long time ago. It’s not a lot. Over the course of a couple of years of using LinkedIn, you can easily suck up that many. Be selective about who you contact. Make sure they are people who fit your criteria. After that, they can follow you. That is when your strategy of posting comes more into play. 30,000 contacts is enough to make a lifetime out of, so use them carefully and wisely.</p> <p>I heard a little saying the other day that I will pass on: Your net worth is now your network. Your net worth is your network. Use it carefully. Don’t just accept people for whatever. There is a code you will see in LinkedIn every now and then: LION. People will put that in their profile. Stay away from those people unless you are barely starting out. LION is a LinkedIn Open Networker. That is not a bad thing. Those are the people that will connect with anybody and the idea they are trying to make a huge network with no selectivity. If people have LION in their profile, you probably want to stay away from them, not that they are bad people. They are not specific. You only have 30,000 of them. Russ, you’re sitting there at 3,500, and Hugh, I remember you are at 5 or 6,000. 30,000 may seem like a long ways away, but it’s not. Use them carefully. Maybe someday LinkedIn will open that back up a little bit more.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I didn’t realize that. I wondered if there was a cap. Before I go to the tactical questions, let’s talk about the kinds of relationships we want to cultivate. I could say we could create a peer-to-peer group with other nonprofit directors who are having the same problems that would be a support group, maybe a mastermind connection. I could see we could connect with businesspeople geographically that could be candidates for our boards. I could see that we could connect with marketing people in companies to start talking about how it would benefit their brand to be a sponsor for our nonprofit. Do you have any comments on those, or are there other kinds of connections people might want to make?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                </p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> You might go directly for people that share your interests, whatever the interest is of your nonprofit. If you are in kitty rescue, out of half a billion people, you can find a lot of people that share your specific interest. If it’s macramé that is your interest, you will find thousands of people who love macramé. If you are doing great work in a niche, then you want to connect with other people who are interested in that niche and see where it goes. Some might be donors, some might be business partners, some might be board members. As long as someone shares your interest, that is a great place to start. It’d be hard to name another place that gives you another way to search for people that shares- Whatever esoteric interest you might have, you can find a list of people on LinkedIn that self-classify as sharing that interest.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a good segue. We have a quarter of our interview left here. How do we identify those connections, and how do we contact them? How do we use the messaging piece to stay in touch with them?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> There are a bunch of questions there. Let’s talk about them one at a time. Let’s go fairly quickly. Let’s put up the infographic and talk about it in the barest details for a minute or two.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a downloadable brilliant infographic.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> This thing is about five times as tall as it is wide. You are only seeing a portion of it. This first portion has some important things. Russell, you used to pay for that background image, and now everyone gets that for free. You can put a background picture here in your profile. You need to put a good business picture in your profile. It is just astounding that people are four times as likely to connect with someone who has an image than with someone who doesn’t have an image.</p> <p>Then the headline- that is the most important thing. This one is “I help B2B companies save money through outsourcing solutions.” That is a silly example, but the important things are there. You have identified who you help and how you help them. That is the important part of the headline. That will let people self-qualify as to whether or not they want to connect with you and whether or not you want to connect with them. If people know what you do and what you do it for and want to connect with you, then you are halfway home. They already know what you’re about, and if they want to connect with you after they know what you’re about, then you at least have a start. If you say you’re an accountant, you might get other people who want to connect with you because they want to be part of the brotherhood of accountants, but that is a long way from having someone who wants to do business with your nonprofit. I’m going to leave it at that and let everybody go through the download themselves. On the website, there is a post about doing headlines. I can’t think of anything more important than your headline. There is a place that calls them Snaps. Whatever you call a headline, an elevator pitch, whatever it is, you should be able to communicate what you do, who you do it for, and what they get out of it in a few words. You should put that as a bumper sticker, on your business card, tattoo it on your forehead, whatever. But they might be the most important 10-12 words you ever come up with in your life. For lots of different things, not just your LinkedIn profile. Feel free to download that infographic and play with it, and that website has more pieces that might be helpful to you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is an interesting name. Szeak. How do you say that?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Szeak.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This will all be in the show notes. Does that mean anything?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Nope. It’s a five-letter domain.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Give us some tips on how to find people.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> There are tools inside of LinkedIn. Russell, I think you were making a reference to this also, but if you are going to get serious about LinkedIn, you need to pay for one of their premium programs, which is called Sales Navigator. They may have changed the name on it now, but it’s a program inside of LinkedIn. It’s $80 a month. You can do most of the same stuff without paying for that, but LinkedIn will throttle you down. LinkedIn will only let you do so many contact requests. I don’t know what the number is. It’s probably a couple hundred a month, whereas if you pay them, they are more than willing to let you do as much as you want within some reason. This isn’t the time, and it’s not graphical enough for me to teach you how to do that right now, but there are lots of good tutorials on LinkedIn about searching.</p> <p>There are actually 24 criteria in Sales Navigator that you can search on. One of them is Ebullient Search, which means you can use plus, minus, words, quote marks, all those things. You can do a lot more than just the 24 things. They are things like geography and job title and number of employees and those kinds of things, which are all great. But you can add Ebullient Search to that. If kitty rescue is your thing, you can find thousands of people who have that in their profile. Again, I’m not trying to be flippant. It doesn’t matter what your niche is. You can use LinkedIn searching to identify other people who have that same interest.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is a powerful tool.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> It’s unbelievable.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I got that navigator for a little while, but I couldn’t figure it out, so I stopped it. Now I have to go back and find some tutorials. If I heard you right, there are tutorials on LinkedIn on how to do this?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> There are. We occasionally run webinars, too. You can put my email in the chat if you want. It’s doug@szeak.com. Reach out to me and I will let you know the next time we are having a webinar on the hands-on use of the tools there. Just through the search functions in regular LinkedIn, you can start to get a feel for it. There are half a dozen criteria that you get for free. You get an idea of what that search starts to look like. By the way, it’s free for a month. If you are getting semi-serious about it- You do put your credit card in, so you have to remember to cancel or else they will hit ya. But you can get in there and play with it for free and look at what it looks like.</p> <p>The #1 thing is to fix your profile and make sure that you have your profile in a way, starting with your headline, that lets people self-qualify. If kitty rescue is your thing, put it right in there. You get the idea. That works to help people self-qualify. About half the people you send a request to that do connect with you will just say yes, but the other half will look at your profile. That turns your profile into a really important thing. You can get thousands of people looking at your profile. Start thinking about what that would cost you if you were in pay-per-click or that kind of business. Make that profile an engagement piece. Realize that literally about one out of three people that you send an invitation to- first of all, you qualified who you are, so you have a good idea they are the right kind of people. A third of those people are going to look at your profile page, and half of those people will connect with you and half of them won’t. At any rate, you could be paying ten dollars a click in a lot of niches to get people to come to your page, and you can get that for a lot less money, even with the $85 a month to LinkedIn. Headline, profile, then the search thing. Figure it out. One way or another, you can find some help on that. It’s fairly self-evident. Send your requests. Let me talk about that.</p> <p>What we found is that the best contact request is a very generic one. Once you identify a prospect, you send them something that says- I need to back up again. You can only do these contact requests to second-level connections. In other words, I know Hugh and Hugh knows Russell so I can send Russell a contact request. From that point of view, it does make a lot of sense to have thousands of potential people because every time I connect with someone like Hugh who is in the right business, I get access to his hundreds or thousands of clients that hopefully are also in the right business, not just his grandma and his aunt. You can send out those requests to second-level people.</p> <p>The wording for those things is generic. We call them by name. “Hey, Russell. We both know Hugh, or we have some mutual friends. I see we are both interested in kitty rescue. Would you be interested in connecting with me on LinkedIn?” We don’t say that we are selling them something. We don’t say we are looking for a board member. We don’t say we are looking for volunteers. We say we have mutual connections and mutual interests; would you like to connect? You will find that about 40% of the people you send that request to will connect with you. If you can get yourself in the habit of doing 100 of those a week, that is 40 new people. That is a lot of new people that you connect with every week that are now qualified. They are not random people. You searched for them by a criteria. You invited them based on a criteria. Most of them have come and looked at your profile page so they know what you’re about before they connect with you. Right there, you are halfway home. At least halfway home. You have people who know who you are, why you have asked them to connect. You have prequalified them with the search to get them in the right spot. We send that thing.</p> <p>We follow it up with a next message that is very generic that says, “Thanks for connecting with me. Looking forward to staying in touch.” Just that simple so there is an acknowledgement they have connected. You say, “Hey, I would like to know more about what you do. Do you mind if we connect outside of LinkedIn?” You can download your list of people from your contacts. You can download their phone number. You have these people at this point. You have their phone number and their email, where they work, their job title. Whatever your connection funnel is. From that point on, there is a whole different conversation: how to take people from contacts and leads into customers. That is a topic for a different day. This is the start of your sales funnel or contact funnel. With a couple of hours a day or week, you could be adding 40-50 people a week to your top end of your contact list. Now you have to have a way to deal with those people. That is a lot of people. You have to have a way to take them from Point A to Point Z. But in terms of making connections and finding who you should be connecting with, there is nothing like LinkedIn.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The Meyer Foundation did some research and found that 45% of nonprofit executive directors are facing burnout. 75% are looking at the door out. As you were talking, finding people with common interest, you could find people who are retired and looking for something meaningful to do who could be part of your solution. They could help manage your social media. They could take things off your plate. Putting on your weekly schedule some time to grow your sphere of influence on LinkedIn might be a good way to get your head around how to get out of this dungeon of being burned out and having too much to do. Let them help you. Ask them.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> The thing I would caution everybody on on this is not to be too general and jump ship too many times. You need to know what you want and have a way to get it. If you get into LinkedIn and say, “I want to find an executive committee of 14 people who live within 100 miles,” go do that. That will be a different conversation and profile than, “I want to tap into other nonprofits that contribute in my niche.” Don’t try and do everything at the same time. That is just a general focus thing. My wife and I have a running joke. We have grandkids. A few years ago, we watched <em>Up,</em> the cartoon movie. I don’t know if you have ever seen it, but in <em>Up,</em> there is a talking dog. In the middle of the conversation, the dog turns its head and says, “Squirrel!”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The dog is an entrepreneur, right?</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> That is a running joke around our house and one that you could take home with you. Don’t get squirreled. Have one thing you want to do. Do it until it’s done. Then move on to the next thing. That is true with everything, including LinkedIn. If I need 20 things and am looking for 20 kinds of people, that is a way to get zero done. If you say that I want this one thing and want to go find that person, and then once I find that person, I will move on, that will work. But if halfway through, you go, Squirrel! Don’t do that. Don’t get squirreled.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Stay focused. That is good general advice. As far as what you are saying here, that is prudent. One of the reasons we may be burned out is we are doing the squirrel thing too much. Doug Brown, owner and manager of Newswire, which is a brilliant PR platform to get your releases out there, and this whole track with LinkedIn, you have given us amazingly useful information. Doug, if you do a webinar, let me send it to the group of people here.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> I’d be happy to do that. Thanks for the chance to talk. Everybody loves the sound of their own voice, so thank you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’m going to make you listen to it.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> I don’t love it that much.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you so much.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I just had someone ask me about broadcasts I’m in. I do this. I do Nonprofit Culture Success broadcasts, which are going to become more frequent. They asked me if I listen to my own podcast. I said, “No,” and they said that I should probably start. Watch what you’re doing.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> See how to make it better right.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Last time somebody told me, “Hugh, you ought to be on television.” I said, “Really? Why?” “So then we could turn you off.” Thanks for this broadcast, Doug. Thanks, Russ, for co-hosting with me.</p> <p><strong>Doug:</strong> Thanks for having me guys.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Termites Destroying Your Board? With Steven Rowell</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/termites-destroying-your-board-with-steven-rowell</link>
      <description>Termites Destroying Your Board?
 Problem: 
 Non-Profit Boards are filled with well-meaning volunteer leaders, whose various reasons for joining are unfortunately, more competing and less collaborative than everyone may realize.
 Far too many Boards fail to invest in the simple, yet proven and powerful strategies that the most successful and thriving Non-Profit Boards live by every day.
 Therefore, meetings are dysfunctional, true consensus decisions are almost impossible to achieve, volunteerism and Board involvement declines and staying focused on the most important mission and results of the Non-Profit becomes exceedingly difficult and exhausting.
 Good News: 
 It doesn’t have to be this way. There are simple, proven powerful strategies, when used effectively and consistently, which eradicate much of the dysfunction, build trust amongst the Board Leaders and enable Leaders to make better decisions, save time and achieve better results, with less stress and drama.
 Question 1: Steven, as a change management consultant, and after 20 years of serving on Boards and helping Non-Profit Boards become more effective, what do you see as the overarching challenge when Board Leaders are struggling?
 Fail to Live in Community with Authenticity, Transparency, Humility and Collaboration
 Definition of Success for the Organization is Not Crystal Clear
 The Board Leaders Do Not Adequately Understand the “Why” Behind Each Board Leader’s Reason for Joining and Staying Involved
 Question 2: With the long list of challenges that any Board Leadership can struggle with, are there patterns or distinctions that stand out for you?
 Most are People Issues—Communication and Interpersonal Relations, especially when the Board Chair or President lacks adequate leadership skills to address these people issues
 Culturally, not just in the US, we suffer far too much Political Correctness and our cultural norm of avoiding conflict and difficult conversations makes it all the harder for people to wiggle their spinal cords and practice Managerial Courage
 Organizationally, meetings are run poorly, authority and decision making is not clear, and standards in a variety of ways are simply lacking or non-existent
 Question 3: What are some examples of a successful use of Standards in Board Leadership?
 Definition of Success for Organization and Board Leadership
 Behavior Standards are Clear and Consequences for Failing to Adhere to Them are Real and Crystal Clear—No Triangulation, Carry Your Weight, Humility, Managerial Courage, Failing Forward, Mission First
 When Dealing with Me—Strengths; Behavioral Styles
 Question 4: Thinking of the Cultural Challenges you mentioned earlier, what are some proven strategies that you have seen work within Board Leadership and what improvements are made because of them?
 Mad, Glad, Sad/Stop, Start, Continue
 If You Could Change Any One Thing Immediately About __________________, With No Limit on Resources, What Would You Change?
 Understanding Behavioral Styles  (DiSC, Platinum Rule, True Colors, Myers-Briggs, etc.)
 Everyone understands what each other’s greatest needs are and what drives their thinking and thus their behaviors
 Difficult Conversations are far more easily surfaced because everyone understands the importance of honoring others’ behavioral style
 Question 5: What are some of your best strategies for Board Leaders running better meetings and making better decisions?
 Understanding Strengths  (Gallup and Strengthsscope)
 Meetings—Discovery, Distribution and Decisions; AHA Sheet; 2 Commitments
 Saying No—Standing up and “Saying No” to things that we don’t need to be doing right now, is oftentimes even more powerful than “Saying Yes” to doing the right things
 Urgency—What happens if we do nothing and keep the status quo?  What are the benefits or quick wins when we address this issue and no longer settle for status quo?
 Finding, Harvesting and Celebrating Quick Wins Along with Establishing and Fully Understanding the URGENCY of the Need for Change is the Most Powerful First Step that Board Leadership Must Identify, Communicate and Keep Communicating
 THE CHALLENGE?
 Everyone is volunteering/investing their time, energy and contributions for the Mission of the organization. Building trust, getting everyone on the same page with crystal clear understanding, and living and leading based upon behavior standards, behavioral styles and strengths, takes work and serious commitment to the long-term success of Board Leadership. Sadly, far too often, Board Leaders quit mid-stream, after only implementing a few of these proven building blocks. Tragically, the cancer of “see I told you nothing would change” rears its ugly head far too often, resulting in Board Leader turnover, disengagement and festering dysfunction.
 However, when Board Leaders embrace these strategies with humility and a spirit of servant leadership, and implement and practice them consistently, the changes, improvements and results are often transformational for the organization and everyone involved.
 Keep Our Why’s, Definition of Success, Behavior Standards and the URGENCY of Change at the forefront of everything we do!
 For our people, honor behavioral styles and strengths, remember “When Dealing with Me” 
 And in daily practice, maintain, Asking Better Questions (Stop, Start, Continue); Running Better Meetings; Allowing “Failing Forward”; and, Committing to Make Better Consensus Decisions and Owning Our Decisions
  
 Steven Rowell is a Change Management Consultant, serial entrepreneur and executive coach who is obsessed with leadership effectiveness that drives business growth and profitability, leads organizational change and creates a company culture of legendary service.
 Steven’s unique combination of leadership experiences with The Walt Disney World Co., Compass Group and building his own companies translates to powerful and practical consulting, training and speaking services for his clients just like you.
 Steven’s HCAHPS Patient Satisfaction program is now in use by more than 1100 hospitals nationwide. For the past 25 years Steven has worked with contract management, hospitality and service management companies in facilities management, healthcare, home services, theme parks, casinos and resorts.
 Key areas of expertise include leadership effectiveness, building effective teams, accountability, managerial courage, leading change, conflict resolution, strategic planning, personal effectiveness, and delivering legendary service. Steven has delivered more than 1100 keynote speeches since 1995, andhas facilitated more than 130 multi-day conferences for his Clients. Steven is the author of The Five Minute Secret (2017); Jumpstart Your Creativity (Sept 2013); Success from the Inside Out (2010-295,000 copies sold); Connections™ Orientation in Action for Real Results and Retention(Abundance Publishing, Fall 2007); and Clean Is Not Enough! : Revolutionizing Environmental Services (October 2004).
 The Transcript
 Nonprofit Chat with Stephen Rowell
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, everyone. We are doing a live recording as we do on Tuesday nights for the Nonprofit Chat. We have an energy-filled evening for you. We are going to talk until we’re done, which is usually an hour or less. But the man on this call tonight is Stephen Rowell. Russell Dennis is back with me as co-host, and we will interview Stephen. He and I have been acquainted through a mutual friend, and we have a lot of synergies in what we believe in and what we do and our experience. Stephen, tell us about this experience with Mickey Mouse and that part of your history, and take it forward and tell us what you do today.
 Stephen Rowell: Sure, thank you so much for having me. First thing, I thought about the title for today’s talk to be “Mickey Mouse and the Boardroom” or “What would be different if Disney ran your board?” sort of like the book What if Disney Ran Your Hospital. Basically, I spent almost eight years at Walt Disney World in Orlando. I spent five years working in sales, at Disney University, the training division, human resources, and really fell in love with organizational development. I ended my career in the organizational development group, which ran Disney University and Disney Institute. I come from an operations background; I am a serial entrepreneur. But what is really exciting about tonight is- My father was an assistant dean of a very nice university in Texas, and my mother was a schoolteacher, believe it or not. They were so civically minded my whole life. I grew up as the norm with the notion that Mom and Dad were always gone in the evenings at board meetings and volunteering and whatnot. I think that is where it all started for me.
 When I left Disney, I had a few more entrepreneurial successes and worked in corporate life. Over the last 20 years, my wife and I have been drawn to organizations in South Africa, three of them specifically. They all do different things. One is sustainable support for an entire village. The others are helping orphans in South Africa. I really come tonight with not only a spirit for nonprofits, but also as a change management consultant, what I am also doing is not only serving on boards myself and participating in what we would call trainwreck meetings and seeing some of the most dysfunctional groups, but I have also been privileged, both in terms of small nonprofits and huge big-name organizations, to see what works, and that is what I am excited to share. It’s not about me, but what I have seen that really works around the country.
 Hugh: Russell and I are what we call in the SynerVision Leadership Foundation, which is a 501(c)3, WayFinders. We are coming full circle from the consultant answer-man to the WayFinder, who is a partner who asks questions to empower and enable people. Part of our methodology is running power-packed meetings. As a conductor, you never saw a conductor use an agenda for a rehearsal. We do away with words like “agenda” and focus on deliverables. You and I are going to have some lively conversation. We have moved away from the consultant model. I went through a phase where I decided a consultant would be an insultant, and then I moved to resultant. But really, in my persona, it’s about the integration of strategy and performance.
 You spent some really good years with Disney. Was that in California or Florida?
 Stephen: It was in Florida, and then I ended up in the Northeast.
 Hugh: Uh huh. And you’re in Pennsylvania now?
 Stephen: Yes. I was going to come here for three years, do grad school, and leave. Now I have been married 15 years. I have a 13-year-old boy and a Goldendoodle and a Corgi, and the rest is history, as they say.
 Hugh: Life goes zoom. Anything else you want to say about yourself before we get into some of the hard content? I have interrupted you there.
 Stephen: No. I am just excited to be here and answer questions and serve in any way I can.
 Hugh: I took your title verbatim: “Termites Destroying Your Board? How to Exterminate Board Dysfunction Once and for All.” We are talking about getting more done in less time. You are singing my song so to speak. Bigger impact and lasting results.
 You said you have participated in nonprofit boards for quite a while. Part of the expertise Russ and I have is working with boards and helping them build a culture of high performance. What is your experience? Do you work externally with boards, or have you just sat on boards as a boardperson?
 Stephen: I have sat on boards, and then as a consultant, I helped a couple of the nonprofits in South Africa, which are both 501(c)3s and American-based as well as South African-based. I helped them from the ground up get crystal clear about their mission, what they were going to focus on, and what they were not going to focus on. That brings up one of the key points for me, which is so often I see people struggle with saying no, and they wonder why their board is sitting there with 17 items on their strategic plan. I was trying to help those two organizations benefit from the beginning. I am excited to share that one of those organizations is now 14 years old and has 25 homes for orphans in South Africa, which is exciting.
 Hugh: That is very exciting. You said in passing the term “change management consultant.” What does that mean?
 Stephen: For us, change management consulting is coming alongside senior leaders, organizations, nonprofits, CEOS, C-suite groups, and helping them in a few different ways. One is: What are the best practices to get adoption and people to embrace the change, not be afraid of it, push through their fear, but really how to implement change that is not so painful through the first year of the introduction, and what also sticks and lasts and what really makes it work. We focus on three different parts. There is the larger organization, there is the group component, and there is the individual and the leadership piece. What I would say is where we spend most of our time with nonprofit boards is acknowledging the cultural norms and realities of what they are dealing with. I am talking about what the cultural norm is as it relates to leaders and what they are bringing into their room—call it bias or cultural norm—and then there is organizationally what the organization wants to do, and then there is the people stuff. We really work on the triangle of the organization, the group, and the leader. We try as best we can to get people to start from a place of humility, which is we don’t know what we don’t know. We really try to start from a very humble place.
 Hugh: The triangle is the organization, the people, and I forgot the other one.
 Stephen: The culture.
 Hugh: The culture.
 Stephen: I will give you an example. What South African colleges and universities consider a graduate degree skilled proficient educator or teacher would barely be equal to an undergraduate American professional in education.
 Hugh: Oh my goodness.
 Stephen: There is a great example going globally. South Africans will talk about the challenges they have and why their teachers are struggling. When you bring Americans or Europeans over to help, they are aghast and saying, “Wait. You’re talking about basic issues like Teacher 101.” What we have learned on the global stage, and why we really struggle with the humility piece, is what we have experienced on the African continent—and we are about 15 years through this journey—and not to offend anybody, is this notion of white, American, faith-based organizations landing in Africa and saying, “We have the solution.” Friends of ours have spent the past 11 years starting their own nonprofit organizations in Africa. They have discovered the notion of let’s show up as first-world human beings and ask, “What do you need?” instead of saying, “We have all the solutions.” The organizations in sub-Saharan Africa that are European- or American-based that have done that have found far greater success and far less challenge upfront.
 Hugh: That is so spot-on with our SynerVision philosophy. What do you think, Russ?
 Russell Dennis: I think that’s marvelous and that is my philosophy when I go into work. I ask a lot of questions. Something I picked up as an IRS agent is that it’s like Colombo. You ask questions like a second grader until it gets clear. The more you can get people to talk about themselves, they often give themselves their own answer because they talk it through. My whole gig is to pull the genius out of people that is already there.
 Stephen: Russ, you had a great conversation with my consulting partner Dennis who has dedicated his life to being the drama-free guy. He really focuses a lot of his time on how to ask better questions.
 Hugh: That is the secret of the coaching of what we do as WayFinders. You mentioned books. Stephen is prolific and has written a lot of books. He has written The Five-Minute Secret: How to Connect with Anyone Anywhere at Any Time. You have Success from the Inside Out. Clean is Not Enough. You’re a good title guy. You have co-authored a book called Jumpstart Your Creativity. Some people are boring with titles, but you got it down. You know how to do an interesting title.
 I am excited about the synergy. By the way, I named our company SynerVision, which is the synergy of the common vision. There is so much resonance of what you are talking about in what we stand for.
 Let’s talk about boards. As this change management consultant—I think I heard you say you have had experience with nonprofits for 20 years—I know you helped them be effective at what they are trying to do. What do you see as the overarching challenge when board members and nonprofit leaders are struggling?
 Stephen: To start off with the big umbrella, it’s just the synthesis of my life journey, this doesn’t mean anything I am about to say is right or wrong, but from a change management perspective and having had two teachers as parents, with a father as a Socratic teacher who asked me questions constantly, from that lens, what I would say is it starts with this: Boards that struggle, no matter how big or small or complex or simple that is, tend to fail in what I call the overarching idea of living community. What I mean by that is within that notion of living in a mission-based, volunteer world to make a bigger impact, the notion of authentic genuine, open communication, having the trust and the managerial courage to deal with tough issues, failing forward, a lot of that safety and trust is absent in the boards that struggle with community. I know you all know this, as you are experts far better than me in how to help boards with the vast experience you have all had, but I think you would agree. You have one meeting with a board, and halfway through or a third of the way through the meeting, you have a sense of what the culture is as it relates to community.
 One of the most powerful examples, and I am sharing this simply hoping that someone will think about themselves. As you are listening to this, think about who you are and how you show up. But I will share this. There is an organization I have worked with that is 20 years old and just recently a big, big name has joined the organization. Because of the absence of the tools that I am going to talk about tonight, or the effective managerial courage and leadership to drive it, guess what has happened in the last year and a half? The organization has made massive strategic shifts, not because the group wanted to with consensus, but because the billion-dollar family wanted to do it. They have now expanded. As an example, using operational financials, 50% of their entire annual fund is now deployed in new strategies. Why? Because it happens to be near where the homes and the properties are that are owned by the billion-dollar family. All of a sudden, you have this massive dysfunction of one family comes in, and because they are billionaires and so powerful, the cultural norms of avoiding difficult conflicts and conversations. So what has happened is as big-hearted and well-meaning as this family is, it has become dysfunctional, and now you are seeing donations go down. They just did an Indiegogo campaign that was not as successful as the past ones. You have seen volunteerism go down, as rated by the number of days people are volunteering with the organization on a routine basis go down. And they have lost three people who were members of the board, drumroll, who were involved with the board for ten years and have exited in the last four months.
 One of my passions is helping the original founder of the nonprofit and the chairman/president be skilled enough so that when the train is coming down the track, they can at least have better skills than most. When they see that train coming, they can assess and determine if that train is going to run us over or pick us up and take us somewhere really special. I think that’s the secret.
 Hugh: I’ll let Russ weigh in here a minute, but in my 31 years of experience, I see very few boards, if any, function up to the expectations of the leader or even to their own expectations. You take really good people who are successful in their lives and put them on a nonprofit board, and you duct tape their mouth and tie their hands, so to speak. The system itself does not promote all the good stuff that you just articulated. The culture is so key. I’d like you to comment on a couple of the methodologies we use at SynerVision. We have people weigh in on the board covenant. What is it they promise to each other? It’s interesting what people come up with. It’s their commitment to each other as peer-to-peer accountability. Too often, the leader feels they have to hold everybody accountable, whether it’s the board chair or the executive director. They think it all revolves around them making things happen. But really, if the culture creates the standards, they are going to enforce them.
 The other piece we go into is what we call guiding principles. I don’t know this, but experiencing Disney from the outside, it’s really clear that their principles for employees is very clear, how they make decisions. We are the guest. They are always going to help us. Ask somebody sweeping the streets a question, and they can take you there and answer that question. Southwest Airlines is the hospitality company. Companies like that have a very clear set of guiding principles so they know how they are supposed to function. I don’t find either, the covenant or the operating guide of how we are going to function as a team or how we are going to make decisions as a team with your guiding principles.
 Stephen: Bingo. That last one, how we are going to make decisions and the authority and all that, is gigantic. That is where the failure comes because of the absence of all of this. What I would share with you very quickly is this. The Disney version of that is safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency. It’s in that order. Van Nam was a consultant that worked with Walt Disney in the 1950’s to figure all of this out before Disneyland opened in 1955 in California. The concept was that safety is first because without safety, you don’t have anything if it’s going to be a theme park. Safety, courtesy, show, we’re all a part of the magic. And the last one is efficiency.
 You have to get 1,800 guests an hour through the attraction of the Haunted Mansion. Let’s say we had 19 guests in the last hour that were in wheelchairs, so we had to slow down that conveyor belt because the Haunted Mansion is loaded with a conveyor belt. All of a sudden, you look at the numbers in the control center and you see you are not going to make your 1,800 count. The fourth value is efficiency, not the first. So here is the secret. To your point, hourly cast members were raised- I used to teach perditions, the first three days of orientation at Disney University. What I would teach is you can never go out of order: safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency. So you could never be rude to guests or hold back people that needed assistance to enter that attraction because you are going to get your number. That hierarchy of thinking is exactly what you are talking about.
 Sixteen-year-old kids who sit at home and never say anything to Mom and Dad at the dinner table, all of a sudden, if that same kid is now at Disneyworld and he understands safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency, then we sell happiness is what we train all the new hires to understand. Backstage, we sell happiness. The way we do that is we create magic. The standard, which is the covenant, as an example using the covenant language, one of the standards is consistently seek out guest contact. Those words were all very definitive and intentional. Consistently (not just when you want to) seek out (don’t just let the guest walk over you, you seek them out, make eye contact) guest contact.
 To wrap all of that up, what I would share with you—and this has carried over into my consulting and my own life as a parent and husband—I have thought about what are those standards I want to live by and behaviors I want to commit to. Here is how powerful this is. You have this 16-year-old who sits at home and never looks up from their phone, but you put them in the culture at Disneyworld, and what happens? They see a father in the Magic Kingdom walking with an Epcot Center guidebook, and the same kid walks up and goes, “Oh hi, are you headed over to Epcot Center later this evening to see Illuminations, the fireworks show?” They say, “Yes, how did you know?” Well, that’s the secret, the magic. This guest doesn’t realize that this kid has been taught that if you are in the Magic Kingdom in front of the castle and you see a father or mother with an Epcot Center guidebook, that is an opportunity for magic. So what the kid says is, “Would you like to know the secret best place to go inside the world showcase to see the fireworks?” “Sure, that’d be great.”
 What happens then to wrap all of that up—I still get goosebumps telling you this—you can take the person out of Disney, but you can’t take the Disney out of the person—but what I would share with you is absolutely part of the secret of Disney is safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency, we sell happiness, we create magic, and then there is the standard of consistently seek out guest contact. Here is the big one. We also then teach the why to the cast member to understand why you’re doing this. Do you know what magic is? The last piece for me on this on the Disney benchmark is then showing them ways they can make magic. So you see a family walking through the park with a camera. You will see teenage cast members run up to that family and say, “Sir, can I take that picture for you so you can be in it?” Well, why is that such a treasured thing to do working at Disneyworld? Because, when you are a new hire, we would tell story after story that the Christmas card is going to be the picture of the family, and in the old days, this will date me, but it used to be that American families spent 36 rolls of film in one trip at Disneyworld.
 Hugh: Oh my goodness.
 Stephen: They would get home, and the average for most families is there would be three pictures of the entire family in the 36 rolls of film. To wrap all this up, what we do is teach that the holiday card is going to be that picture of the whole family at Disneyworld. The one that is huge today is when you go to a funeral, and Grandpa has passed away, the tradition in America at least is you go to the funeral and what do they have? Pictures up on an easel. At the time, we had 81,000 guest letters of people writing in saying, “Four months after we were at Disneyworld, my grandfather died. I want you to know the picture at the memorial service was the picture in front of Splash Mountain. I wanted to say thank you to the kid Skip who took that picture.” The magic was then to go back as a company and find Skip and say, “You made magic.”
 Hugh: That’s lovely. What if we had that same mindset? We use the word “nonprofit” because we gotta make profit, and we start dumbing down to the lowest common denominator. But what if we were able to, and we settle for less than excellence, less than efficient, less than safety. What gift do you have to inspire board members? I think it’s up to the board members to step up and say I want to do better.
 Stephen: Great question. One of the ways that I think you can really help these volunteer board members as well as leaders, whether it is a member of a committee or the chairman, is to make it personal. Here is what I mean. 1,100 hospitals have licensed my Patient Satisfaction Program, and one of the things that both Quint Stuter and the Stuter Group and myself really made famous in hospitals is behavior standards.
 One of the things I would give you as an example is imagine your covenants. Go back to what you said, Hugh. Imagine if you had these covenants for these board members you were speaking to. We are talking about how to maintain excellence and inspire them to that. What if the standard was no triangulation? If the banker is upset with the CPA who is upset with the multi-millionaire retired business owner who is upset with the schoolteacher, and you have all the baggage and crap that goes with those labels in our society, no, no, no. It doesn’t matter who you are. The issue is no triangulation. What does that mean? If you have an issue with anybody, you go to them. You don’t run to me. Or the chairman says, “If you do have an issue, come to me and check in. That’s fine. I can help you navigate this.” That is where your WayFinding is so brilliant in terms of what you are teaching because you can help them navigate a constructive conversation. That is one.
 Another is take 100% responsibility for everything you do and say. Take 100% responsibility. That is a success principle that Jack Canfield has really focused on.
 Another one is keep your agreements.
 Hugh: Oh my.
 Stephen: What is really neat is if you think about language, so be humble at all times. Remember we don’t know what we don’t know, the humility piece. Managerial courage is caring enough about the other person to say something, to not cower away. Embracing failing forward. The big one that is always so cliché is mission first. What does that mean?
 That is what I would do. If you don’t care about triangulation, then you won’t achieve excellence. If you don’t care about taking 100% responsibility… It could be as simple as the person in the role of secretary is supposed to have the notes at the meeting sent out by the next morning because we are all busy people. But everybody talks for years now that the secretary gets them out the Thursday after the week after the week after the meeting is over. Now what I have opened up, Hugh, is what do you do then when those types of behaviors fester, which is against the standard of excellence? That is where I think boards fail and struggle in the moments of difficulty and failure. But you have to start with the standards. You have to have the language. You have to start somewhere. You have to wiggle your spinal cord.
 Hugh: Yeah, we are in the same place. A lot of it the leader lets happen. We think it’s going to go away. I have an e-book out on Amazon called Creating Healthy Teams. It’s all about this intervention piece of managing conflict.
 Russ, in your work with the Indian reservation and some of the charities, what do you tag here in the brilliant stuff he is giving us tonight?
 Russell: This is all really excellent stuff. He is preaching to the choir here. I know in my case, I have worked some insane hours. You get a few drivers that are dedicated, and they don’t take care of themselves. They burn out as a result. You have to have an open communication where you can have those tough conversations with the board or course-correct. When something is not going well with a project, folks don’t want to talk about it because they want to look “good” for the funding sources. It’s best that if you have some sort of problem, you have to be transparent and talk about it as quick as you can. Even if it’s just discomfort, you need to go to your leader and express that instead of sweeping it under the rug. A lot of this is having those conversations. That is a culture piece. If you don’t have that culture in place where you can do that, you will have some difficulties.
 Also what you were talking about is what I would call the solid foundation, which is step one of the four steps of building a high-performance nonprofit. That is the process I will work with people in corporations through that I am still fine-tuning. Building that foundation is looking at what you have and what you need and being able to establish that communication, culture, and ground rules. It’s easier when you start. But you are probably used to going in and finding stuff in every state of operation, being a change management consultant. It’s tricky, and it’s a lot of fun when you ask a lot of questions and you generally bring people to a place where they figure out they don’t know what they don’t know. Nobody likes to be told there is something wrong with them. But I ask enough questions that people after a while are dropping these gems on themselves. Once they come to that point, you can continue that conversation and move forward. But it’s tough to get there sometimes. There is a lot of conflict. When you walk into some situations, you are going to find a massive amount of conflict because things have gone the way they have gone. How do you start off when you walk into these situations where you have some strong personalities and a lot bubbling under the surface because you have let this strong personality dominate?
 Stephen: There are a couple things. There is a soft approach. It’s all about winning the war, not the battle, right? We all know that. One principle that guides us is people don’t argue with their own data. The magic of what you all are teaching with asking the better questions is you are helping people realize that when they make it their own and identify it, they solve their own problems, as we talked about earlier.
 I do behavioral styles training. For years, I have been using Tony Alexander’s Platinum Rule. There are four quadrants. It’s a simpler, cleaner version of Myers Briggs. The concept is I start with understanding: Did you know there are four statistically proven, research-based styles? Did you know those four styles each have a deep driving need, a way they see the world and what they value in that world, and the one thing that is the risk or the weakness? The real principle for me there is teaching people any strength taken too far can become a weakness. The overuse of a strength, as this group Strength Scope, which is a brilliant group, they are taking what Gallop did with Strengths Finder- The concept is that the overuse of a strength is the overuse of a skill. That is the soft approach.
 If I were to leave this fine earth tomorrow, what I am about to say is the tool I hope people would embrace. There is a very simple one, and there is a complex one that has a process that is not that complex. All these tools are in the book Success from the Inside Out, which I’d like to offer your group access to the PDF version as a way to give back. It was written as an action guide format. There is a chapter called “What Makes the Disney Difference?” There is a chapter talking about behavioral standards. And there is this chapter that I am talking about here.
 Very quickly, this is the concept. This is the single most powerful exercise I have ever done. If I need to level an organization, or if a CEO hires me and says, “I need to reach into the belly of this beast and wake my executives up,” this is what we do. You get people together, get an outside facilitator, and collect feedback in writing, not public discussion, but individually on pieces of paper, and what they are doing is opening up their head and heart and answering the questions: What are you mad about? What are you sad about? What are you glad about? Working here as part of this board. When you think about coming here every month, with the way this board works, what are you mad about? Or what are you mad about with the way the chairman interacts with us? Or what are you mad about, sad about, or glad about? You make them think about those things.
 What you do is have them all write it down on a piece of paper. The outside person collects all those pieces of paper, types it all up, and looks at the trends. The concept is no one else sees the handwriting of the participants. It’s anonymous.
 Mad, glad, and sad is only the emotional side, but it’s the way to start. It’s what opens the door. Here is where the $150,000 of free consulting comes in. When you ask the people these questions, “We can identify the things that frustrate us, but now let’s talk about solutions.” You have them take out another piece of paper, and write down when you think about the chairman of the board or the committee leaders or all of us as a group collectively, what do we as mature, grown adult members of this board need to stop doing, start doing, and continue doing? The brain science magic on this is when you ask a human being who has now emotively unloaded and are feeling good about getting that off their chest… By the way, about 10% of the data you gather from the sad/mad/glad will be surprises to the chairman. If they are really an ostrich with their head buried in the sand, 25% of the data will be a surprise to them. They will say, “I didn’t know that they were that upset.” We have only been talking about that every single meeting when we wait until you leave and get in your car and then complain about it behind your back.
 Russell: Break room, yes.
 Stephen: Stop/start/continue is where you transform the organization, to answer your question, Russ. If you could simply get organizations, even if it was just the C-suite group, the top senior leaders, to simply sit twice a year and go, “What do you and I start doing, stop doing, and continue doing to make this a better place?” If you want to go and really transform the nonprofit organization, go ask your volunteers, “What do the leaders of this nonprofit need to stop doing, start doing, and continue doing? They are not going to see your handwriting. They are not going to see your name. Just tell us.” When that data comes pouring in and you look at it, what I do is type it up into PowerPoint slides. You can see that 18/34 said, “We don’t start meetings on time.” 27/34 people said, “There is no accountability here, and there are three people who have so much favoritism and nepotism that they get away with murder.” Okay. Now you have people surfacing a difficult issue.
 Just like anything, as you talked about with process, you need a safety net. You don’t want people to get hurt and stir up and trigger events. There is a best practice on how to do it. Here is where I am going with this. Anybody listening, if you could do this in your marriage, what do I need to stop doing, start doing, or continue doing to be a better husband? What do I need to stop doing or start doing this summer to be a better father to my 13-year-old boy who is really thriving and doing exceptionally well with tae-kwon-do? How can I better support him? I need to start making more time to go to tae-kwon-do practices with him. I need to start more consistently practicing with him at home. Great example. The other day, I bought a 70-pound body bag to hang from the ceiling. How many months do you think I have ben thinking about buying that body bag for my son? When you do stop/start, that is where you get off your duff, drive your car to Target, and buy the bag. The interesting thing is that today, body bags are only $60 now.
 How many times do boards complain about how expensive it is… I am using this as a metaphor. You go to your local Goodwill store, and somebody will have already donated their body bag back to the local Goodwill store. It will be hanging in a corner. You ask Goodwill if you can buy it for $10. One of the principles I try to help organizations with is there is always a way.
 The other thing is that N-O = O-N. No=On. When you say no to things, it keeps what matters most on. You stay focused on the things that matter. The one thing is the one thing is a great principle. I am going back to both of your questions. Safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency was a way of trying to figure out the language, which everybody is picking up now. A lot of what you are hearing from me tonight is about language. I know this is huge for the two of you as well. It’s really about language.
 Hugh: It is. Underneath communications is relationships. You have covered a lot of territory here, and you have answered the questions we posted. Except I’d like to hear on this meeting thing. There is a fifth unposted question out there. I like this mad/glad/sad/stop/start/continue. This is similar to tools we use, but it is distinctively different. Pretty brilliant. Will you give us the link for that free book?
 Stephen: Go to talkwithstephen.com, and what they can do is go in as if they were scheduling an appointment, and put in the comment box they would like a copy of the book and I will send them the books of Jumpstart Your Creativity and Success from the Inside Out. They won’t be enrolled in any email list or any autoresponder messages from me. I don’t do that. I don’t even have opt-in boxes on my websites. Just go to talkwithstephen.com. Book the appointment, we can cancel it later. Simply make a note that they want the book. If they want to ask a question, that’s great. I will get back to them. But they can also just say, “Send me the book,” and I will send those two.
 Hugh: This last one is a real zinger. I wish you lived closer so we could have coffee and talk more. There is this thing about meetings and making decisions together. One of my e-books out there is Conducting Power Impact Meetings. I approach it like a conductor builds ensemble, so meetings in my world are the number one killer of high-functioning teams. But they are the number one empowerment vehicle for high-performing teams. We can go either way. The difference is how the leader builds the culture through the DNA of rehearsal together. We rehearse for excellence, or we rehearse for mediocrity or even less. Give us the Stephen snapshot of decision-making. What are some of the things that are important in meetings to you?
 Stephen: Delivering a promise I made a minute ago: If mad/sad/glad/stop/start/continue is a process piece, the one I want to give everybody as a gift that you can share with your loved ones but also with yourself is a mini version. Hugh, let me ask you a question. If you could change any one thing immediately about the way you are spending your private time—say you used to have a hobby but no longer—what would you change? That question is a really powerful question. I use that to answer your question because one of the best practices in meetings for me is being able to facilitatively know when to ask that question. “Okay, I hear everybody complaining about the payroll system and the clocking in system and that you are frustrated about the accuracy of paychecks. If we could change any one thing immediately, what would we change?” That is an example of a powerful facilitative question.
 Number two: I believe that standing meetings, no chairs, no food, and no meetings longer than an hour unless justified by the seniors. There are some process pieces, too. But the one I would share that is critically important—this is my life work and John Connor’s life work, the Harvard professor—he wrote a book called Urgency—John Connor is one of the really sage experts in change management. In his original books around change, he identified the nine key principles that you have to press in order to have lasting successful change.
 People don’t argue with their own data. When you ask great questions, and when you ask that above question, now you start to get a group moving forward. What are the secret tools in the toolbox? If your group does not have a crystal clear understanding of the urgency of addressing this issue or the urgency of the need for change, if they do not understand the pain of continuing to do the status quo, then you are, according to John Connor’s life work—and I have experienced it myself after 20 years of change management—missing the single most powerful lever for success that is research-based and proven. If the leaders do not establish amongst themselves the urgency, the why is it so urgent we have to fix the payroll system, why is it that paychecks have to get mailed out on time. If they cannot get together about the urgency and the why behind that urgency, they are missing the fundamental, most powerful lever you can start with to effectively drive change.
 I will wrap up with this. In meetings, one of the most powerful tools I have come across over the years is the three D’s. I want to hear your thoughts on this, too because you all have dedicated time to this. One little tool is three D’s. It could be a part of a meeting, the first twenty minutes, and the last forty minutes is another topic. Or you could have one meeting with just one D. There are Discovery meetings, which is where last month, seven different people left with topics to research. They come back and you will dedicate 20 minutes. Each person will have two minutes to discover or talk about what they discovered out there in the universe.
 Another example would be Distribution, which is okay, you went out and gathered this, but now let’s distribute amongst ourselves what we need to do, leveraging the experts in the room, to take all the discovery information, distribute amongst ourselves to move this forward, to get to what, a decision. What I have found is whether it’s for profit or a nonprofit, I believe personally the reason meetings suck is nobody wants to make a decision because if we don’t make a decision, then I don’t have to be held accountable for any expectation after the meeting is over. If we can subconsciously keep this ball bouncing… I know we are doing dinner next month with the board, but what I would like to have you do is come in 20 minutes early and have a meeting about the meeting we had last time and then we will talk about what meeting we need to book for that meeting because nobody wants to make a decision.
 So discovery, you focus everybody. What do you all know? What do we need to distribute amongst each other now that we have done that discovery process? The last one is time to make a Decision. The decision piece hopefully is not the first time the group is bringing up the urgency conversation. To help everybody with a concrete technique, what happens if we do nothing? I love this question. If you want to see silence in a board room, they will surface an issue and are fuming, ask them that. What you will see in that moment is people will either come fighting for their cause or people will look back and say honestly,” I think we have bigger fish to fry. Rome is burning. I don’t think we need to worry about that. You are talking about golf course issues and the grass on the green.” Boom. Thank you. By simply asking that one question, if we do nothing, what happens? It helps people stop and pause. People don’t let boards sit and quiet.
 Hugh: You hit that a minute ago. The silence piece. It’s powerful.
 Russell: I am a big fan of silence. It’s part of my meditative routine in the morning. Instead of using something guided, it’s silence a lot of times. It’s really powerful. I have sat in meetings, and silence makes people uncomfortable. They are not used to being. They are used to doing. They feel like they have to do something. I consider silence a power tool.
 There is one question, and I think you may have covered it. David Dunworth posed a question. He said, “We used a similar process with employees in large organizations we call the 360-degree feedback system.” He posed a question about a smaller organization, and he says, “How can smaller social enterprises instill that spirit you are discussing into a tiny nonprofit that is struggling to find effective board members?”
 Stephen: The first part of that question is how they can instill which spirit? Which piece of it are they talking about?
 Russell: We were talking about motivating board members. That was at the point we were talking about motivating board members.
 Stephen: Okay. What I would do is do you know the why? If you look at your most successful, invigorated, excited people who are supporting you, whether it’s donors, community leaders, influencers, or board members, do you know the why for each of them, and are you looking for the distinctions of the patterns? Here is what it could sound like. If they do that homework as a small nonprofit, they could say, if you are at lunch with someone and you want to plug someone in: “You might find it interesting that 40% of our raving fans, the people most committed to this organization, the thing they are really drawn by is what we are doing with policy-makers to change the healthcare code as it relates to geriatric patients. That is what is driving them.” The fact that you know 40% of the people who are most engaged are most excited about this one thing, at least you are now putting a voice, safety, concern, show, efficiency, you are putting a language to those fundamental building blocks.
 Number two, quickly off the cuff on that, is do you have your own story clear enough? This is the piece I would talk about. I’ll do it this way. I will do two things simultaneously quickly here. Imagine if at the beginning of our talk today, instead of me talking about my past and what I did with Disney and all of that, imagine if we had started this talk tonight this way. “Stephen, where are you headed, and what are you most passionate about when it comes to nonprofit boards?” Well now I will share with you what Dennis, the drama-free teams expert, would say: He is on a mission between now and 2020 to create 10,000 drama-free teams in healthcare in hospitals. He is about to launch drama-free nursing, and he wants to help nurses, the largest department in hospitals, eliminate their drama.
 What I would share is this. Imagine if we could focus on where we are headed. What is the goal? What are we trying to do? What is the result? Bring that story forward along with consistently seeking out guest contact, safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency. Now we have something more compelling, and you are drawing people to it.
 One other thing I want to take a moment to say is that “imagine” is a very powerful word. It’s called an imagine statement. Imagine in just three short years we eradicate polio from the continent. Think about that. Everybody uses the JFK example of going to the moon. Why was that so profound? He cast a vision that was so profound it almost… How are we going to do that?
 I used to run mastermind groups for small business owners in home services, plumbing, electrical, and maid services. I need everybody to hear this. I am not selling this service. I am not doing that. This is an Imagine statement. People would say, “Stephen, what do you do? I understand you work with small business owners.” I am translating what I am about to say as a framework for you. You are a small business owner, and I respond, “Imagine doubling your sales, tripling your net profit, and retiring in 3-5 years, guaranteed. Imagine doubling your sales, tripling your net profit, and retiring in 3-5 years, guaranteed.” Here is what happened. I interviewed 1,700 business owners in plumbing, electrical, and maid service in 2004, and what I discovered was that they worked hard but didn’t make any money, they worked hard but didn’t have a growing company, they wanted to retire, they wanted to turn over their business to their kids. If you translate that into what you are trying to do in the future and figure out what your imagine statement is… Think about the Gates foundation with mosquitoes and mosquito nets. Imagine eradicating malaria by 2020.
 The other thing I have modeled for everybody was the power of a pause. That is that moment for leaders. Next time you run a meeting, folks, let me ask you a question. *pause* All you do is sit at that board table, look down, and break eye contact with them. If you could change what we are doing immediately about this golf tournament, is this really the best way for us to make money this year? Is there another way? If we could change anything immediately about how we are raising money for this organization this year, what would it be? All of a sudden, you will have the audience in the palm of your hand. I turn it over to you, Hugh. I’d love to get your reaction to some of this.
 Hugh: This is profound stuff. We could talk the rest of the night. I want to do a wrap here. I will come back to you in the end, Stephen. I was trying to capture that. That is one of the most useful things you said all night. That one is an eye-opener. I want to let you think for a minute as a parting wish, thought, tip for people. Russ, do you have any closing comments you want to make? I want to make a couple announcements.
 Russell: No, I don’t have anything to add, except my thanks. I want to make sure we get his question. I took copious notes. I have learned a lot from you. I look forward to talking with you again in the future. It has been marvelous. Thank you so much.
 Stephen: Thank you. An honor.
 Hugh: It’s a gift to have you with us, Stephen. Russ shows me up all the time. I have to be careful. He has taken really good notes here. He has a way of summarizing key points and putting them in. David Dunworth who asked the question was on this series a while back, and he had one of our great interviews as well. Thank you for being on here, David, and others.
 What parting thought would you like to leave with people?
 Stephen: Folks, life is short. I just turned 50 years old, and I have a 13-year-old son, an 8-year-old dog, a puppy, and a 52-year-old wife. What I would invite everybody to think about beyond all the clichés of why we are here, what we are doing, what is the meaning of life, beyond all of that, I would make it a little bit simpler. It’s 2017. In 2027, ten years from now, summer of 2027, if you are still with us here on this earth, God willing, as true as day, you will be standing there. You will be alive and living your life. Here is my simple question. Between now and then, how do you want to spend it? How do you want to spend it? Do you want to spend it as the person who gets consumed by all the things in the media, the news, and the press, with everything that is wrong with the country and the world? Or do you want to be that light of hope and be a role model for others? Even beyond that, live the best life you can live?
 My question for you is: Between now and next summer, one year from now, how do you want to spend it? Hugh will have this podcast next June, and you will be here next June after a year’s worth of podcasts. Give yourself the gift today or tomorrow and simply think about how do you want to spend it? If you do that, that is time well worth spending.
 Hugh: Good words, sir.
   
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      <pubDate>Sun, 25 Jun 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8401e9bc-b329-11eb-9f0f-ff85e39e6ff3/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>How to Exterminate Board Dysfunction Once and For All</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Termites Destroying Your Board?
 Problem: 
 Non-Profit Boards are filled with well-meaning volunteer leaders, whose various reasons for joining are unfortunately, more competing and less collaborative than everyone may realize.
 Far too many Boards fail to invest in the simple, yet proven and powerful strategies that the most successful and thriving Non-Profit Boards live by every day.
 Therefore, meetings are dysfunctional, true consensus decisions are almost impossible to achieve, volunteerism and Board involvement declines and staying focused on the most important mission and results of the Non-Profit becomes exceedingly difficult and exhausting.
 Good News: 
 It doesn’t have to be this way. There are simple, proven powerful strategies, when used effectively and consistently, which eradicate much of the dysfunction, build trust amongst the Board Leaders and enable Leaders to make better decisions, save time and achieve better results, with less stress and drama.
 Question 1: Steven, as a change management consultant, and after 20 years of serving on Boards and helping Non-Profit Boards become more effective, what do you see as the overarching challenge when Board Leaders are struggling?
 Fail to Live in Community with Authenticity, Transparency, Humility and Collaboration
 Definition of Success for the Organization is Not Crystal Clear
 The Board Leaders Do Not Adequately Understand the “Why” Behind Each Board Leader’s Reason for Joining and Staying Involved
 Question 2: With the long list of challenges that any Board Leadership can struggle with, are there patterns or distinctions that stand out for you?
 Most are People Issues—Communication and Interpersonal Relations, especially when the Board Chair or President lacks adequate leadership skills to address these people issues
 Culturally, not just in the US, we suffer far too much Political Correctness and our cultural norm of avoiding conflict and difficult conversations makes it all the harder for people to wiggle their spinal cords and practice Managerial Courage
 Organizationally, meetings are run poorly, authority and decision making is not clear, and standards in a variety of ways are simply lacking or non-existent
 Question 3: What are some examples of a successful use of Standards in Board Leadership?
 Definition of Success for Organization and Board Leadership
 Behavior Standards are Clear and Consequences for Failing to Adhere to Them are Real and Crystal Clear—No Triangulation, Carry Your Weight, Humility, Managerial Courage, Failing Forward, Mission First
 When Dealing with Me—Strengths; Behavioral Styles
 Question 4: Thinking of the Cultural Challenges you mentioned earlier, what are some proven strategies that you have seen work within Board Leadership and what improvements are made because of them?
 Mad, Glad, Sad/Stop, Start, Continue
 If You Could Change Any One Thing Immediately About __________________, With No Limit on Resources, What Would You Change?
 Understanding Behavioral Styles  (DiSC, Platinum Rule, True Colors, Myers-Briggs, etc.)
 Everyone understands what each other’s greatest needs are and what drives their thinking and thus their behaviors
 Difficult Conversations are far more easily surfaced because everyone understands the importance of honoring others’ behavioral style
 Question 5: What are some of your best strategies for Board Leaders running better meetings and making better decisions?
 Understanding Strengths  (Gallup and Strengthsscope)
 Meetings—Discovery, Distribution and Decisions; AHA Sheet; 2 Commitments
 Saying No—Standing up and “Saying No” to things that we don’t need to be doing right now, is oftentimes even more powerful than “Saying Yes” to doing the right things
 Urgency—What happens if we do nothing and keep the status quo?  What are the benefits or quick wins when we address this issue and no longer settle for status quo?
 Finding, Harvesting and Celebrating Quick Wins Along with Establishing and Fully Understanding the URGENCY of the Need for Change is the Most Powerful First Step that Board Leadership Must Identify, Communicate and Keep Communicating
 THE CHALLENGE?
 Everyone is volunteering/investing their time, energy and contributions for the Mission of the organization. Building trust, getting everyone on the same page with crystal clear understanding, and living and leading based upon behavior standards, behavioral styles and strengths, takes work and serious commitment to the long-term success of Board Leadership. Sadly, far too often, Board Leaders quit mid-stream, after only implementing a few of these proven building blocks. Tragically, the cancer of “see I told you nothing would change” rears its ugly head far too often, resulting in Board Leader turnover, disengagement and festering dysfunction.
 However, when Board Leaders embrace these strategies with humility and a spirit of servant leadership, and implement and practice them consistently, the changes, improvements and results are often transformational for the organization and everyone involved.
 Keep Our Why’s, Definition of Success, Behavior Standards and the URGENCY of Change at the forefront of everything we do!
 For our people, honor behavioral styles and strengths, remember “When Dealing with Me” 
 And in daily practice, maintain, Asking Better Questions (Stop, Start, Continue); Running Better Meetings; Allowing “Failing Forward”; and, Committing to Make Better Consensus Decisions and Owning Our Decisions
  
 Steven Rowell is a Change Management Consultant, serial entrepreneur and executive coach who is obsessed with leadership effectiveness that drives business growth and profitability, leads organizational change and creates a company culture of legendary service.
 Steven’s unique combination of leadership experiences with The Walt Disney World Co., Compass Group and building his own companies translates to powerful and practical consulting, training and speaking services for his clients just like you.
 Steven’s HCAHPS Patient Satisfaction program is now in use by more than 1100 hospitals nationwide. For the past 25 years Steven has worked with contract management, hospitality and service management companies in facilities management, healthcare, home services, theme parks, casinos and resorts.
 Key areas of expertise include leadership effectiveness, building effective teams, accountability, managerial courage, leading change, conflict resolution, strategic planning, personal effectiveness, and delivering legendary service. Steven has delivered more than 1100 keynote speeches since 1995, andhas facilitated more than 130 multi-day conferences for his Clients. Steven is the author of The Five Minute Secret (2017); Jumpstart Your Creativity (Sept 2013); Success from the Inside Out (2010-295,000 copies sold); Connections™ Orientation in Action for Real Results and Retention(Abundance Publishing, Fall 2007); and Clean Is Not Enough! : Revolutionizing Environmental Services (October 2004).
 The Transcript
 Nonprofit Chat with Stephen Rowell
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, everyone. We are doing a live recording as we do on Tuesday nights for the Nonprofit Chat. We have an energy-filled evening for you. We are going to talk until we’re done, which is usually an hour or less. But the man on this call tonight is Stephen Rowell. Russell Dennis is back with me as co-host, and we will interview Stephen. He and I have been acquainted through a mutual friend, and we have a lot of synergies in what we believe in and what we do and our experience. Stephen, tell us about this experience with Mickey Mouse and that part of your history, and take it forward and tell us what you do today.
 Stephen Rowell: Sure, thank you so much for having me. First thing, I thought about the title for today’s talk to be “Mickey Mouse and the Boardroom” or “What would be different if Disney ran your board?” sort of like the book What if Disney Ran Your Hospital. Basically, I spent almost eight years at Walt Disney World in Orlando. I spent five years working in sales, at Disney University, the training division, human resources, and really fell in love with organizational development. I ended my career in the organizational development group, which ran Disney University and Disney Institute. I come from an operations background; I am a serial entrepreneur. But what is really exciting about tonight is- My father was an assistant dean of a very nice university in Texas, and my mother was a schoolteacher, believe it or not. They were so civically minded my whole life. I grew up as the norm with the notion that Mom and Dad were always gone in the evenings at board meetings and volunteering and whatnot. I think that is where it all started for me.
 When I left Disney, I had a few more entrepreneurial successes and worked in corporate life. Over the last 20 years, my wife and I have been drawn to organizations in South Africa, three of them specifically. They all do different things. One is sustainable support for an entire village. The others are helping orphans in South Africa. I really come tonight with not only a spirit for nonprofits, but also as a change management consultant, what I am also doing is not only serving on boards myself and participating in what we would call trainwreck meetings and seeing some of the most dysfunctional groups, but I have also been privileged, both in terms of small nonprofits and huge big-name organizations, to see what works, and that is what I am excited to share. It’s not about me, but what I have seen that really works around the country.
 Hugh: Russell and I are what we call in the SynerVision Leadership Foundation, which is a 501(c)3, WayFinders. We are coming full circle from the consultant answer-man to the WayFinder, who is a partner who asks questions to empower and enable people. Part of our methodology is running power-packed meetings. As a conductor, you never saw a conductor use an agenda for a rehearsal. We do away with words like “agenda” and focus on deliverables. You and I are going to have some lively conversation. We have moved away from the consultant model. I went through a phase where I decided a consultant would be an insultant, and then I moved to resultant. But really, in my persona, it’s about the integration of strategy and performance.
 You spent some really good years with Disney. Was that in California or Florida?
 Stephen: It was in Florida, and then I ended up in the Northeast.
 Hugh: Uh huh. And you’re in Pennsylvania now?
 Stephen: Yes. I was going to come here for three years, do grad school, and leave. Now I have been married 15 years. I have a 13-year-old boy and a Goldendoodle and a Corgi, and the rest is history, as they say.
 Hugh: Life goes zoom. Anything else you want to say about yourself before we get into some of the hard content? I have interrupted you there.
 Stephen: No. I am just excited to be here and answer questions and serve in any way I can.
 Hugh: I took your title verbatim: “Termites Destroying Your Board? How to Exterminate Board Dysfunction Once and for All.” We are talking about getting more done in less time. You are singing my song so to speak. Bigger impact and lasting results.
 You said you have participated in nonprofit boards for quite a while. Part of the expertise Russ and I have is working with boards and helping them build a culture of high performance. What is your experience? Do you work externally with boards, or have you just sat on boards as a boardperson?
 Stephen: I have sat on boards, and then as a consultant, I helped a couple of the nonprofits in South Africa, which are both 501(c)3s and American-based as well as South African-based. I helped them from the ground up get crystal clear about their mission, what they were going to focus on, and what they were not going to focus on. That brings up one of the key points for me, which is so often I see people struggle with saying no, and they wonder why their board is sitting there with 17 items on their strategic plan. I was trying to help those two organizations benefit from the beginning. I am excited to share that one of those organizations is now 14 years old and has 25 homes for orphans in South Africa, which is exciting.
 Hugh: That is very exciting. You said in passing the term “change management consultant.” What does that mean?
 Stephen: For us, change management consulting is coming alongside senior leaders, organizations, nonprofits, CEOS, C-suite groups, and helping them in a few different ways. One is: What are the best practices to get adoption and people to embrace the change, not be afraid of it, push through their fear, but really how to implement change that is not so painful through the first year of the introduction, and what also sticks and lasts and what really makes it work. We focus on three different parts. There is the larger organization, there is the group component, and there is the individual and the leadership piece. What I would say is where we spend most of our time with nonprofit boards is acknowledging the cultural norms and realities of what they are dealing with. I am talking about what the cultural norm is as it relates to leaders and what they are bringing into their room—call it bias or cultural norm—and then there is organizationally what the organization wants to do, and then there is the people stuff. We really work on the triangle of the organization, the group, and the leader. We try as best we can to get people to start from a place of humility, which is we don’t know what we don’t know. We really try to start from a very humble place.
 Hugh: The triangle is the organization, the people, and I forgot the other one.
 Stephen: The culture.
 Hugh: The culture.
 Stephen: I will give you an example. What South African colleges and universities consider a graduate degree skilled proficient educator or teacher would barely be equal to an undergraduate American professional in education.
 Hugh: Oh my goodness.
 Stephen: There is a great example going globally. South Africans will talk about the challenges they have and why their teachers are struggling. When you bring Americans or Europeans over to help, they are aghast and saying, “Wait. You’re talking about basic issues like Teacher 101.” What we have learned on the global stage, and why we really struggle with the humility piece, is what we have experienced on the African continent—and we are about 15 years through this journey—and not to offend anybody, is this notion of white, American, faith-based organizations landing in Africa and saying, “We have the solution.” Friends of ours have spent the past 11 years starting their own nonprofit organizations in Africa. They have discovered the notion of let’s show up as first-world human beings and ask, “What do you need?” instead of saying, “We have all the solutions.” The organizations in sub-Saharan Africa that are European- or American-based that have done that have found far greater success and far less challenge upfront.
 Hugh: That is so spot-on with our SynerVision philosophy. What do you think, Russ?
 Russell Dennis: I think that’s marvelous and that is my philosophy when I go into work. I ask a lot of questions. Something I picked up as an IRS agent is that it’s like Colombo. You ask questions like a second grader until it gets clear. The more you can get people to talk about themselves, they often give themselves their own answer because they talk it through. My whole gig is to pull the genius out of people that is already there.
 Stephen: Russ, you had a great conversation with my consulting partner Dennis who has dedicated his life to being the drama-free guy. He really focuses a lot of his time on how to ask better questions.
 Hugh: That is the secret of the coaching of what we do as WayFinders. You mentioned books. Stephen is prolific and has written a lot of books. He has written The Five-Minute Secret: How to Connect with Anyone Anywhere at Any Time. You have Success from the Inside Out. Clean is Not Enough. You’re a good title guy. You have co-authored a book called Jumpstart Your Creativity. Some people are boring with titles, but you got it down. You know how to do an interesting title.
 I am excited about the synergy. By the way, I named our company SynerVision, which is the synergy of the common vision. There is so much resonance of what you are talking about in what we stand for.
 Let’s talk about boards. As this change management consultant—I think I heard you say you have had experience with nonprofits for 20 years—I know you helped them be effective at what they are trying to do. What do you see as the overarching challenge when board members and nonprofit leaders are struggling?
 Stephen: To start off with the big umbrella, it’s just the synthesis of my life journey, this doesn’t mean anything I am about to say is right or wrong, but from a change management perspective and having had two teachers as parents, with a father as a Socratic teacher who asked me questions constantly, from that lens, what I would say is it starts with this: Boards that struggle, no matter how big or small or complex or simple that is, tend to fail in what I call the overarching idea of living community. What I mean by that is within that notion of living in a mission-based, volunteer world to make a bigger impact, the notion of authentic genuine, open communication, having the trust and the managerial courage to deal with tough issues, failing forward, a lot of that safety and trust is absent in the boards that struggle with community. I know you all know this, as you are experts far better than me in how to help boards with the vast experience you have all had, but I think you would agree. You have one meeting with a board, and halfway through or a third of the way through the meeting, you have a sense of what the culture is as it relates to community.
 One of the most powerful examples, and I am sharing this simply hoping that someone will think about themselves. As you are listening to this, think about who you are and how you show up. But I will share this. There is an organization I have worked with that is 20 years old and just recently a big, big name has joined the organization. Because of the absence of the tools that I am going to talk about tonight, or the effective managerial courage and leadership to drive it, guess what has happened in the last year and a half? The organization has made massive strategic shifts, not because the group wanted to with consensus, but because the billion-dollar family wanted to do it. They have now expanded. As an example, using operational financials, 50% of their entire annual fund is now deployed in new strategies. Why? Because it happens to be near where the homes and the properties are that are owned by the billion-dollar family. All of a sudden, you have this massive dysfunction of one family comes in, and because they are billionaires and so powerful, the cultural norms of avoiding difficult conflicts and conversations. So what has happened is as big-hearted and well-meaning as this family is, it has become dysfunctional, and now you are seeing donations go down. They just did an Indiegogo campaign that was not as successful as the past ones. You have seen volunteerism go down, as rated by the number of days people are volunteering with the organization on a routine basis go down. And they have lost three people who were members of the board, drumroll, who were involved with the board for ten years and have exited in the last four months.
 One of my passions is helping the original founder of the nonprofit and the chairman/president be skilled enough so that when the train is coming down the track, they can at least have better skills than most. When they see that train coming, they can assess and determine if that train is going to run us over or pick us up and take us somewhere really special. I think that’s the secret.
 Hugh: I’ll let Russ weigh in here a minute, but in my 31 years of experience, I see very few boards, if any, function up to the expectations of the leader or even to their own expectations. You take really good people who are successful in their lives and put them on a nonprofit board, and you duct tape their mouth and tie their hands, so to speak. The system itself does not promote all the good stuff that you just articulated. The culture is so key. I’d like you to comment on a couple of the methodologies we use at SynerVision. We have people weigh in on the board covenant. What is it they promise to each other? It’s interesting what people come up with. It’s their commitment to each other as peer-to-peer accountability. Too often, the leader feels they have to hold everybody accountable, whether it’s the board chair or the executive director. They think it all revolves around them making things happen. But really, if the culture creates the standards, they are going to enforce them.
 The other piece we go into is what we call guiding principles. I don’t know this, but experiencing Disney from the outside, it’s really clear that their principles for employees is very clear, how they make decisions. We are the guest. They are always going to help us. Ask somebody sweeping the streets a question, and they can take you there and answer that question. Southwest Airlines is the hospitality company. Companies like that have a very clear set of guiding principles so they know how they are supposed to function. I don’t find either, the covenant or the operating guide of how we are going to function as a team or how we are going to make decisions as a team with your guiding principles.
 Stephen: Bingo. That last one, how we are going to make decisions and the authority and all that, is gigantic. That is where the failure comes because of the absence of all of this. What I would share with you very quickly is this. The Disney version of that is safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency. It’s in that order. Van Nam was a consultant that worked with Walt Disney in the 1950’s to figure all of this out before Disneyland opened in 1955 in California. The concept was that safety is first because without safety, you don’t have anything if it’s going to be a theme park. Safety, courtesy, show, we’re all a part of the magic. And the last one is efficiency.
 You have to get 1,800 guests an hour through the attraction of the Haunted Mansion. Let’s say we had 19 guests in the last hour that were in wheelchairs, so we had to slow down that conveyor belt because the Haunted Mansion is loaded with a conveyor belt. All of a sudden, you look at the numbers in the control center and you see you are not going to make your 1,800 count. The fourth value is efficiency, not the first. So here is the secret. To your point, hourly cast members were raised- I used to teach perditions, the first three days of orientation at Disney University. What I would teach is you can never go out of order: safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency. So you could never be rude to guests or hold back people that needed assistance to enter that attraction because you are going to get your number. That hierarchy of thinking is exactly what you are talking about.
 Sixteen-year-old kids who sit at home and never say anything to Mom and Dad at the dinner table, all of a sudden, if that same kid is now at Disneyworld and he understands safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency, then we sell happiness is what we train all the new hires to understand. Backstage, we sell happiness. The way we do that is we create magic. The standard, which is the covenant, as an example using the covenant language, one of the standards is consistently seek out guest contact. Those words were all very definitive and intentional. Consistently (not just when you want to) seek out (don’t just let the guest walk over you, you seek them out, make eye contact) guest contact.
 To wrap all of that up, what I would share with you—and this has carried over into my consulting and my own life as a parent and husband—I have thought about what are those standards I want to live by and behaviors I want to commit to. Here is how powerful this is. You have this 16-year-old who sits at home and never looks up from their phone, but you put them in the culture at Disneyworld, and what happens? They see a father in the Magic Kingdom walking with an Epcot Center guidebook, and the same kid walks up and goes, “Oh hi, are you headed over to Epcot Center later this evening to see Illuminations, the fireworks show?” They say, “Yes, how did you know?” Well, that’s the secret, the magic. This guest doesn’t realize that this kid has been taught that if you are in the Magic Kingdom in front of the castle and you see a father or mother with an Epcot Center guidebook, that is an opportunity for magic. So what the kid says is, “Would you like to know the secret best place to go inside the world showcase to see the fireworks?” “Sure, that’d be great.”
 What happens then to wrap all of that up—I still get goosebumps telling you this—you can take the person out of Disney, but you can’t take the Disney out of the person—but what I would share with you is absolutely part of the secret of Disney is safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency, we sell happiness, we create magic, and then there is the standard of consistently seek out guest contact. Here is the big one. We also then teach the why to the cast member to understand why you’re doing this. Do you know what magic is? The last piece for me on this on the Disney benchmark is then showing them ways they can make magic. So you see a family walking through the park with a camera. You will see teenage cast members run up to that family and say, “Sir, can I take that picture for you so you can be in it?” Well, why is that such a treasured thing to do working at Disneyworld? Because, when you are a new hire, we would tell story after story that the Christmas card is going to be the picture of the family, and in the old days, this will date me, but it used to be that American families spent 36 rolls of film in one trip at Disneyworld.
 Hugh: Oh my goodness.
 Stephen: They would get home, and the average for most families is there would be three pictures of the entire family in the 36 rolls of film. To wrap all this up, what we do is teach that the holiday card is going to be that picture of the whole family at Disneyworld. The one that is huge today is when you go to a funeral, and Grandpa has passed away, the tradition in America at least is you go to the funeral and what do they have? Pictures up on an easel. At the time, we had 81,000 guest letters of people writing in saying, “Four months after we were at Disneyworld, my grandfather died. I want you to know the picture at the memorial service was the picture in front of Splash Mountain. I wanted to say thank you to the kid Skip who took that picture.” The magic was then to go back as a company and find Skip and say, “You made magic.”
 Hugh: That’s lovely. What if we had that same mindset? We use the word “nonprofit” because we gotta make profit, and we start dumbing down to the lowest common denominator. But what if we were able to, and we settle for less than excellence, less than efficient, less than safety. What gift do you have to inspire board members? I think it’s up to the board members to step up and say I want to do better.
 Stephen: Great question. One of the ways that I think you can really help these volunteer board members as well as leaders, whether it is a member of a committee or the chairman, is to make it personal. Here is what I mean. 1,100 hospitals have licensed my Patient Satisfaction Program, and one of the things that both Quint Stuter and the Stuter Group and myself really made famous in hospitals is behavior standards.
 One of the things I would give you as an example is imagine your covenants. Go back to what you said, Hugh. Imagine if you had these covenants for these board members you were speaking to. We are talking about how to maintain excellence and inspire them to that. What if the standard was no triangulation? If the banker is upset with the CPA who is upset with the multi-millionaire retired business owner who is upset with the schoolteacher, and you have all the baggage and crap that goes with those labels in our society, no, no, no. It doesn’t matter who you are. The issue is no triangulation. What does that mean? If you have an issue with anybody, you go to them. You don’t run to me. Or the chairman says, “If you do have an issue, come to me and check in. That’s fine. I can help you navigate this.” That is where your WayFinding is so brilliant in terms of what you are teaching because you can help them navigate a constructive conversation. That is one.
 Another is take 100% responsibility for everything you do and say. Take 100% responsibility. That is a success principle that Jack Canfield has really focused on.
 Another one is keep your agreements.
 Hugh: Oh my.
 Stephen: What is really neat is if you think about language, so be humble at all times. Remember we don’t know what we don’t know, the humility piece. Managerial courage is caring enough about the other person to say something, to not cower away. Embracing failing forward. The big one that is always so cliché is mission first. What does that mean?
 That is what I would do. If you don’t care about triangulation, then you won’t achieve excellence. If you don’t care about taking 100% responsibility… It could be as simple as the person in the role of secretary is supposed to have the notes at the meeting sent out by the next morning because we are all busy people. But everybody talks for years now that the secretary gets them out the Thursday after the week after the week after the meeting is over. Now what I have opened up, Hugh, is what do you do then when those types of behaviors fester, which is against the standard of excellence? That is where I think boards fail and struggle in the moments of difficulty and failure. But you have to start with the standards. You have to have the language. You have to start somewhere. You have to wiggle your spinal cord.
 Hugh: Yeah, we are in the same place. A lot of it the leader lets happen. We think it’s going to go away. I have an e-book out on Amazon called Creating Healthy Teams. It’s all about this intervention piece of managing conflict.
 Russ, in your work with the Indian reservation and some of the charities, what do you tag here in the brilliant stuff he is giving us tonight?
 Russell: This is all really excellent stuff. He is preaching to the choir here. I know in my case, I have worked some insane hours. You get a few drivers that are dedicated, and they don’t take care of themselves. They burn out as a result. You have to have an open communication where you can have those tough conversations with the board or course-correct. When something is not going well with a project, folks don’t want to talk about it because they want to look “good” for the funding sources. It’s best that if you have some sort of problem, you have to be transparent and talk about it as quick as you can. Even if it’s just discomfort, you need to go to your leader and express that instead of sweeping it under the rug. A lot of this is having those conversations. That is a culture piece. If you don’t have that culture in place where you can do that, you will have some difficulties.
 Also what you were talking about is what I would call the solid foundation, which is step one of the four steps of building a high-performance nonprofit. That is the process I will work with people in corporations through that I am still fine-tuning. Building that foundation is looking at what you have and what you need and being able to establish that communication, culture, and ground rules. It’s easier when you start. But you are probably used to going in and finding stuff in every state of operation, being a change management consultant. It’s tricky, and it’s a lot of fun when you ask a lot of questions and you generally bring people to a place where they figure out they don’t know what they don’t know. Nobody likes to be told there is something wrong with them. But I ask enough questions that people after a while are dropping these gems on themselves. Once they come to that point, you can continue that conversation and move forward. But it’s tough to get there sometimes. There is a lot of conflict. When you walk into some situations, you are going to find a massive amount of conflict because things have gone the way they have gone. How do you start off when you walk into these situations where you have some strong personalities and a lot bubbling under the surface because you have let this strong personality dominate?
 Stephen: There are a couple things. There is a soft approach. It’s all about winning the war, not the battle, right? We all know that. One principle that guides us is people don’t argue with their own data. The magic of what you all are teaching with asking the better questions is you are helping people realize that when they make it their own and identify it, they solve their own problems, as we talked about earlier.
 I do behavioral styles training. For years, I have been using Tony Alexander’s Platinum Rule. There are four quadrants. It’s a simpler, cleaner version of Myers Briggs. The concept is I start with understanding: Did you know there are four statistically proven, research-based styles? Did you know those four styles each have a deep driving need, a way they see the world and what they value in that world, and the one thing that is the risk or the weakness? The real principle for me there is teaching people any strength taken too far can become a weakness. The overuse of a strength, as this group Strength Scope, which is a brilliant group, they are taking what Gallop did with Strengths Finder- The concept is that the overuse of a strength is the overuse of a skill. That is the soft approach.
 If I were to leave this fine earth tomorrow, what I am about to say is the tool I hope people would embrace. There is a very simple one, and there is a complex one that has a process that is not that complex. All these tools are in the book Success from the Inside Out, which I’d like to offer your group access to the PDF version as a way to give back. It was written as an action guide format. There is a chapter called “What Makes the Disney Difference?” There is a chapter talking about behavioral standards. And there is this chapter that I am talking about here.
 Very quickly, this is the concept. This is the single most powerful exercise I have ever done. If I need to level an organization, or if a CEO hires me and says, “I need to reach into the belly of this beast and wake my executives up,” this is what we do. You get people together, get an outside facilitator, and collect feedback in writing, not public discussion, but individually on pieces of paper, and what they are doing is opening up their head and heart and answering the questions: What are you mad about? What are you sad about? What are you glad about? Working here as part of this board. When you think about coming here every month, with the way this board works, what are you mad about? Or what are you mad about with the way the chairman interacts with us? Or what are you mad about, sad about, or glad about? You make them think about those things.
 What you do is have them all write it down on a piece of paper. The outside person collects all those pieces of paper, types it all up, and looks at the trends. The concept is no one else sees the handwriting of the participants. It’s anonymous.
 Mad, glad, and sad is only the emotional side, but it’s the way to start. It’s what opens the door. Here is where the $150,000 of free consulting comes in. When you ask the people these questions, “We can identify the things that frustrate us, but now let’s talk about solutions.” You have them take out another piece of paper, and write down when you think about the chairman of the board or the committee leaders or all of us as a group collectively, what do we as mature, grown adult members of this board need to stop doing, start doing, and continue doing? The brain science magic on this is when you ask a human being who has now emotively unloaded and are feeling good about getting that off their chest… By the way, about 10% of the data you gather from the sad/mad/glad will be surprises to the chairman. If they are really an ostrich with their head buried in the sand, 25% of the data will be a surprise to them. They will say, “I didn’t know that they were that upset.” We have only been talking about that every single meeting when we wait until you leave and get in your car and then complain about it behind your back.
 Russell: Break room, yes.
 Stephen: Stop/start/continue is where you transform the organization, to answer your question, Russ. If you could simply get organizations, even if it was just the C-suite group, the top senior leaders, to simply sit twice a year and go, “What do you and I start doing, stop doing, and continue doing to make this a better place?” If you want to go and really transform the nonprofit organization, go ask your volunteers, “What do the leaders of this nonprofit need to stop doing, start doing, and continue doing? They are not going to see your handwriting. They are not going to see your name. Just tell us.” When that data comes pouring in and you look at it, what I do is type it up into PowerPoint slides. You can see that 18/34 said, “We don’t start meetings on time.” 27/34 people said, “There is no accountability here, and there are three people who have so much favoritism and nepotism that they get away with murder.” Okay. Now you have people surfacing a difficult issue.
 Just like anything, as you talked about with process, you need a safety net. You don’t want people to get hurt and stir up and trigger events. There is a best practice on how to do it. Here is where I am going with this. Anybody listening, if you could do this in your marriage, what do I need to stop doing, start doing, or continue doing to be a better husband? What do I need to stop doing or start doing this summer to be a better father to my 13-year-old boy who is really thriving and doing exceptionally well with tae-kwon-do? How can I better support him? I need to start making more time to go to tae-kwon-do practices with him. I need to start more consistently practicing with him at home. Great example. The other day, I bought a 70-pound body bag to hang from the ceiling. How many months do you think I have ben thinking about buying that body bag for my son? When you do stop/start, that is where you get off your duff, drive your car to Target, and buy the bag. The interesting thing is that today, body bags are only $60 now.
 How many times do boards complain about how expensive it is… I am using this as a metaphor. You go to your local Goodwill store, and somebody will have already donated their body bag back to the local Goodwill store. It will be hanging in a corner. You ask Goodwill if you can buy it for $10. One of the principles I try to help organizations with is there is always a way.
 The other thing is that N-O = O-N. No=On. When you say no to things, it keeps what matters most on. You stay focused on the things that matter. The one thing is the one thing is a great principle. I am going back to both of your questions. Safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency was a way of trying to figure out the language, which everybody is picking up now. A lot of what you are hearing from me tonight is about language. I know this is huge for the two of you as well. It’s really about language.
 Hugh: It is. Underneath communications is relationships. You have covered a lot of territory here, and you have answered the questions we posted. Except I’d like to hear on this meeting thing. There is a fifth unposted question out there. I like this mad/glad/sad/stop/start/continue. This is similar to tools we use, but it is distinctively different. Pretty brilliant. Will you give us the link for that free book?
 Stephen: Go to talkwithstephen.com, and what they can do is go in as if they were scheduling an appointment, and put in the comment box they would like a copy of the book and I will send them the books of Jumpstart Your Creativity and Success from the Inside Out. They won’t be enrolled in any email list or any autoresponder messages from me. I don’t do that. I don’t even have opt-in boxes on my websites. Just go to talkwithstephen.com. Book the appointment, we can cancel it later. Simply make a note that they want the book. If they want to ask a question, that’s great. I will get back to them. But they can also just say, “Send me the book,” and I will send those two.
 Hugh: This last one is a real zinger. I wish you lived closer so we could have coffee and talk more. There is this thing about meetings and making decisions together. One of my e-books out there is Conducting Power Impact Meetings. I approach it like a conductor builds ensemble, so meetings in my world are the number one killer of high-functioning teams. But they are the number one empowerment vehicle for high-performing teams. We can go either way. The difference is how the leader builds the culture through the DNA of rehearsal together. We rehearse for excellence, or we rehearse for mediocrity or even less. Give us the Stephen snapshot of decision-making. What are some of the things that are important in meetings to you?
 Stephen: Delivering a promise I made a minute ago: If mad/sad/glad/stop/start/continue is a process piece, the one I want to give everybody as a gift that you can share with your loved ones but also with yourself is a mini version. Hugh, let me ask you a question. If you could change any one thing immediately about the way you are spending your private time—say you used to have a hobby but no longer—what would you change? That question is a really powerful question. I use that to answer your question because one of the best practices in meetings for me is being able to facilitatively know when to ask that question. “Okay, I hear everybody complaining about the payroll system and the clocking in system and that you are frustrated about the accuracy of paychecks. If we could change any one thing immediately, what would we change?” That is an example of a powerful facilitative question.
 Number two: I believe that standing meetings, no chairs, no food, and no meetings longer than an hour unless justified by the seniors. There are some process pieces, too. But the one I would share that is critically important—this is my life work and John Connor’s life work, the Harvard professor—he wrote a book called Urgency—John Connor is one of the really sage experts in change management. In his original books around change, he identified the nine key principles that you have to press in order to have lasting successful change.
 People don’t argue with their own data. When you ask great questions, and when you ask that above question, now you start to get a group moving forward. What are the secret tools in the toolbox? If your group does not have a crystal clear understanding of the urgency of addressing this issue or the urgency of the need for change, if they do not understand the pain of continuing to do the status quo, then you are, according to John Connor’s life work—and I have experienced it myself after 20 years of change management—missing the single most powerful lever for success that is research-based and proven. If the leaders do not establish amongst themselves the urgency, the why is it so urgent we have to fix the payroll system, why is it that paychecks have to get mailed out on time. If they cannot get together about the urgency and the why behind that urgency, they are missing the fundamental, most powerful lever you can start with to effectively drive change.
 I will wrap up with this. In meetings, one of the most powerful tools I have come across over the years is the three D’s. I want to hear your thoughts on this, too because you all have dedicated time to this. One little tool is three D’s. It could be a part of a meeting, the first twenty minutes, and the last forty minutes is another topic. Or you could have one meeting with just one D. There are Discovery meetings, which is where last month, seven different people left with topics to research. They come back and you will dedicate 20 minutes. Each person will have two minutes to discover or talk about what they discovered out there in the universe.
 Another example would be Distribution, which is okay, you went out and gathered this, but now let’s distribute amongst ourselves what we need to do, leveraging the experts in the room, to take all the discovery information, distribute amongst ourselves to move this forward, to get to what, a decision. What I have found is whether it’s for profit or a nonprofit, I believe personally the reason meetings suck is nobody wants to make a decision because if we don’t make a decision, then I don’t have to be held accountable for any expectation after the meeting is over. If we can subconsciously keep this ball bouncing… I know we are doing dinner next month with the board, but what I would like to have you do is come in 20 minutes early and have a meeting about the meeting we had last time and then we will talk about what meeting we need to book for that meeting because nobody wants to make a decision.
 So discovery, you focus everybody. What do you all know? What do we need to distribute amongst each other now that we have done that discovery process? The last one is time to make a Decision. The decision piece hopefully is not the first time the group is bringing up the urgency conversation. To help everybody with a concrete technique, what happens if we do nothing? I love this question. If you want to see silence in a board room, they will surface an issue and are fuming, ask them that. What you will see in that moment is people will either come fighting for their cause or people will look back and say honestly,” I think we have bigger fish to fry. Rome is burning. I don’t think we need to worry about that. You are talking about golf course issues and the grass on the green.” Boom. Thank you. By simply asking that one question, if we do nothing, what happens? It helps people stop and pause. People don’t let boards sit and quiet.
 Hugh: You hit that a minute ago. The silence piece. It’s powerful.
 Russell: I am a big fan of silence. It’s part of my meditative routine in the morning. Instead of using something guided, it’s silence a lot of times. It’s really powerful. I have sat in meetings, and silence makes people uncomfortable. They are not used to being. They are used to doing. They feel like they have to do something. I consider silence a power tool.
 There is one question, and I think you may have covered it. David Dunworth posed a question. He said, “We used a similar process with employees in large organizations we call the 360-degree feedback system.” He posed a question about a smaller organization, and he says, “How can smaller social enterprises instill that spirit you are discussing into a tiny nonprofit that is struggling to find effective board members?”
 Stephen: The first part of that question is how they can instill which spirit? Which piece of it are they talking about?
 Russell: We were talking about motivating board members. That was at the point we were talking about motivating board members.
 Stephen: Okay. What I would do is do you know the why? If you look at your most successful, invigorated, excited people who are supporting you, whether it’s donors, community leaders, influencers, or board members, do you know the why for each of them, and are you looking for the distinctions of the patterns? Here is what it could sound like. If they do that homework as a small nonprofit, they could say, if you are at lunch with someone and you want to plug someone in: “You might find it interesting that 40% of our raving fans, the people most committed to this organization, the thing they are really drawn by is what we are doing with policy-makers to change the healthcare code as it relates to geriatric patients. That is what is driving them.” The fact that you know 40% of the people who are most engaged are most excited about this one thing, at least you are now putting a voice, safety, concern, show, efficiency, you are putting a language to those fundamental building blocks.
 Number two, quickly off the cuff on that, is do you have your own story clear enough? This is the piece I would talk about. I’ll do it this way. I will do two things simultaneously quickly here. Imagine if at the beginning of our talk today, instead of me talking about my past and what I did with Disney and all of that, imagine if we had started this talk tonight this way. “Stephen, where are you headed, and what are you most passionate about when it comes to nonprofit boards?” Well now I will share with you what Dennis, the drama-free teams expert, would say: He is on a mission between now and 2020 to create 10,000 drama-free teams in healthcare in hospitals. He is about to launch drama-free nursing, and he wants to help nurses, the largest department in hospitals, eliminate their drama.
 What I would share is this. Imagine if we could focus on where we are headed. What is the goal? What are we trying to do? What is the result? Bring that story forward along with consistently seeking out guest contact, safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency. Now we have something more compelling, and you are drawing people to it.
 One other thing I want to take a moment to say is that “imagine” is a very powerful word. It’s called an imagine statement. Imagine in just three short years we eradicate polio from the continent. Think about that. Everybody uses the JFK example of going to the moon. Why was that so profound? He cast a vision that was so profound it almost… How are we going to do that?
 I used to run mastermind groups for small business owners in home services, plumbing, electrical, and maid services. I need everybody to hear this. I am not selling this service. I am not doing that. This is an Imagine statement. People would say, “Stephen, what do you do? I understand you work with small business owners.” I am translating what I am about to say as a framework for you. You are a small business owner, and I respond, “Imagine doubling your sales, tripling your net profit, and retiring in 3-5 years, guaranteed. Imagine doubling your sales, tripling your net profit, and retiring in 3-5 years, guaranteed.” Here is what happened. I interviewed 1,700 business owners in plumbing, electrical, and maid service in 2004, and what I discovered was that they worked hard but didn’t make any money, they worked hard but didn’t have a growing company, they wanted to retire, they wanted to turn over their business to their kids. If you translate that into what you are trying to do in the future and figure out what your imagine statement is… Think about the Gates foundation with mosquitoes and mosquito nets. Imagine eradicating malaria by 2020.
 The other thing I have modeled for everybody was the power of a pause. That is that moment for leaders. Next time you run a meeting, folks, let me ask you a question. *pause* All you do is sit at that board table, look down, and break eye contact with them. If you could change what we are doing immediately about this golf tournament, is this really the best way for us to make money this year? Is there another way? If we could change anything immediately about how we are raising money for this organization this year, what would it be? All of a sudden, you will have the audience in the palm of your hand. I turn it over to you, Hugh. I’d love to get your reaction to some of this.
 Hugh: This is profound stuff. We could talk the rest of the night. I want to do a wrap here. I will come back to you in the end, Stephen. I was trying to capture that. That is one of the most useful things you said all night. That one is an eye-opener. I want to let you think for a minute as a parting wish, thought, tip for people. Russ, do you have any closing comments you want to make? I want to make a couple announcements.
 Russell: No, I don’t have anything to add, except my thanks. I want to make sure we get his question. I took copious notes. I have learned a lot from you. I look forward to talking with you again in the future. It has been marvelous. Thank you so much.
 Stephen: Thank you. An honor.
 Hugh: It’s a gift to have you with us, Stephen. Russ shows me up all the time. I have to be careful. He has taken really good notes here. He has a way of summarizing key points and putting them in. David Dunworth who asked the question was on this series a while back, and he had one of our great interviews as well. Thank you for being on here, David, and others.
 What parting thought would you like to leave with people?
 Stephen: Folks, life is short. I just turned 50 years old, and I have a 13-year-old son, an 8-year-old dog, a puppy, and a 52-year-old wife. What I would invite everybody to think about beyond all the clichés of why we are here, what we are doing, what is the meaning of life, beyond all of that, I would make it a little bit simpler. It’s 2017. In 2027, ten years from now, summer of 2027, if you are still with us here on this earth, God willing, as true as day, you will be standing there. You will be alive and living your life. Here is my simple question. Between now and then, how do you want to spend it? How do you want to spend it? Do you want to spend it as the person who gets consumed by all the things in the media, the news, and the press, with everything that is wrong with the country and the world? Or do you want to be that light of hope and be a role model for others? Even beyond that, live the best life you can live?
 My question for you is: Between now and next summer, one year from now, how do you want to spend it? Hugh will have this podcast next June, and you will be here next June after a year’s worth of podcasts. Give yourself the gift today or tomorrow and simply think about how do you want to spend it? If you do that, that is time well worth spending.
 Hugh: Good words, sir.
   
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        <![CDATA[ <p><strong><em>Termites Destroying Your Board?</em></strong></p> <p><strong>Problem: </strong></p> <p>Non-Profit Boards are filled with well-meaning volunteer leaders, whose various reasons for joining are unfortunately, more competing and less collaborative than everyone may realize.</p> <p>Far too many Boards fail to invest in the simple, yet proven and powerful strategies that the most successful and thriving Non-Profit Boards live by every day.</p> <p>Therefore, meetings are dysfunctional, true consensus decisions are almost impossible to achieve, volunteerism and Board involvement declines and staying focused on the most important mission and results of the Non-Profit becomes exceedingly difficult and exhausting.</p> <p><strong>Good News: </strong></p> <p>It doesn’t have to be this way. There are simple, proven powerful strategies, when used effectively and consistently, which eradicate much of the dysfunction, build trust amongst the Board Leaders and enable Leaders to make better decisions, save time and achieve better results, with less stress and drama.</p> <p><strong>Question 1: Steven, as a change management consultant, and after 20 years of serving on Boards and helping Non-Profit Boards become more effective, what do you see as the overarching challenge when Board Leaders are struggling?</strong></p> <p>Fail to Live in Community with Authenticity, Transparency, Humility and Collaboration</p> <p>Definition of Success for the Organization is Not Crystal Clear</p> <p>The Board Leaders Do Not Adequately Understand the “Why” Behind Each Board Leader’s Reason for Joining and Staying Involved</p> <p><strong>Question 2: With the long list of challenges that any Board Leadership can struggle with, are there patterns or distinctions that stand out for you?</strong></p> <p><strong>Most are People Issues</strong>—Communication and Interpersonal Relations, especially when the Board Chair or President lacks adequate leadership skills to address these people issues</p> <p><strong>Culturally</strong>, not just in the US, we suffer far too much Political Correctness and our cultural norm of avoiding conflict and difficult conversations makes it all the harder for people to wiggle their spinal cords and practice Managerial Courage</p> <p><strong>Organizationally,</strong> meetings are run poorly, authority and decision making is not clear, and standards in a variety of ways are simply lacking or non-existent</p> <p><strong>Question 3: What are some examples of a successful use of Standards in Board Leadership?</strong></p> <p><strong>Definition of Success</strong> for Organization and Board Leadership</p> <p><strong>Behavior Standards</strong> are Clear and Consequences for Failing to Adhere to Them are Real and Crystal Clear—No Triangulation, Carry Your Weight, Humility, Managerial Courage, Failing Forward, Mission First</p> <p><strong>When Dealing with Me—</strong>Strengths; Behavioral Styles</p> <p><strong>Question 4: Thinking of the Cultural Challenges you mentioned earlier, what are some proven strategies that you have seen work within Board Leadership and what improvements are made because of them?</strong></p> <p><strong>Mad, Glad, Sad/Stop, Start, Continue</strong></p> <p><strong>If You Could Change Any One Thing Immediately About __________________, With No Limit on Resources, What Would You Change?</strong></p> <p><strong>Understanding Behavioral Styles </strong> (DiSC, Platinum Rule, True Colors, Myers-Briggs, etc.)</p> <p>Everyone understands what each other’s greatest needs are and what drives their thinking and thus their behaviors</p> <p>Difficult Conversations are far more easily surfaced because everyone understands the importance of honoring others’ behavioral style</p> <p><strong>Question 5: What are some of your best strategies for Board Leaders running better meetings and making better decisions?</strong></p> <p><strong>Understanding Strengths </strong> (Gallup and Strengthsscope)</p> <p><strong>Meetings</strong>—Discovery, Distribution and Decisions; AHA Sheet; 2 Commitments</p> <p><strong>Saying No—</strong>Standing up and “Saying No” to things that we don’t need to be doing right now, is oftentimes even more powerful than “Saying Yes” to doing the right things</p> <p><strong>Urgency—</strong>What happens if we do nothing and keep the status quo?  What are the benefits or quick wins when we address this issue and no longer settle for status quo?</p> <p>Finding, Harvesting and Celebrating Quick Wins Along with Establishing and Fully Understanding the URGENCY of the Need for Change is the Most Powerful First Step that Board Leadership Must Identify, Communicate and Keep Communicating</p> <p><strong>THE CHALLENGE?</strong></p> <p>Everyone is volunteering/investing their time, energy and contributions for the Mission of the organization. Building trust, getting everyone on the same page with crystal clear understanding, and living and leading based upon behavior standards, behavioral styles and strengths, takes work and serious commitment to the long-term success of Board Leadership. Sadly, far too often, Board Leaders quit mid-stream, after only implementing a few of these proven building blocks. Tragically, the cancer of “see I told you nothing would change” rears its ugly head far too often, resulting in Board Leader turnover, disengagement and festering dysfunction.</p> <p>However, when Board Leaders embrace these strategies with humility and a spirit of servant leadership, and implement and practice them consistently, the changes, improvements and results are often transformational for the organization and everyone involved.</p> <p><strong>Keep Our Why’s, Definition of Success, Behavior Standards and the URGENCY of Change at the forefront of everything we do!</strong></p> <p><strong>For our people, honor behavioral styles and strengths, remember “When Dealing with Me” </strong></p> <p><strong>And in daily practice, maintain, Asking Better Questions (Stop, Start, Continue); Running Better Meetings; Allowing “Failing Forward”; and, Committing to Make Better Consensus Decisions and Owning Our Decisions</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong><a href="http://stevenrowell.com/"></a>Steven Rowell</strong> is a Change Management Consultant, serial entrepreneur and executive coach who is obsessed with leadership effectiveness that drives business growth and profitability, leads organizational change and creates a company culture of legendary service.</p> <p>Steven’s unique combination of leadership experiences with The Walt Disney World Co., Compass Group and building his own companies translates to powerful and practical consulting, training and speaking services for his clients just like you.</p> <p>Steven’s HCAHPS Patient Satisfaction program is now in use by more than 1100 hospitals nationwide. For the past 25 years Steven has worked with contract management, hospitality and service management companies in facilities management, healthcare, home services, theme parks, casinos and resorts.</p> <p>Key areas of expertise include leadership effectiveness, building effective teams, accountability, managerial courage, leading change, conflict resolution, strategic planning, personal effectiveness, and delivering legendary service. Steven has delivered more than 1100 keynote speeches since 1995, andhas facilitated more than 130 multi-day conferences for his Clients. Steven is the author of <strong>The Five Minute Secret</strong> (2017); <strong>Jumpstart Your Creativity</strong> (Sept 2013); <strong>Success from the Inside Out</strong> (2010-295,000 copies sold); <strong>Connections™ Orientation in Action for Real Results and Retention</strong>(Abundance Publishing, Fall 2007); and <strong>Clean Is Not Enough! : Revolutionizing Environmental Services</strong> (October 2004).</p> <p><strong>The Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Nonprofit Chat with Stephen Rowell</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, everyone. We are doing a live recording as we do on Tuesday nights for the Nonprofit Chat. We have an energy-filled evening for you. We are going to talk until we’re done, which is usually an hour or less. But the man on this call tonight is Stephen Rowell. Russell Dennis is back with me as co-host, and we will interview Stephen. He and I have been acquainted through a mutual friend, and we have a lot of synergies in what we believe in and what we do and our experience. Stephen, tell us about this experience with Mickey Mouse and that part of your history, and take it forward and tell us what you do today.</p> <p><strong>Stephen Rowell:</strong> Sure, thank you so much for having me. First thing, I thought about the title for today’s talk to be “Mickey Mouse and the Boardroom” or “What would be different if Disney ran your board?” sort of like the book <em>What if Disney Ran Your Hospital.</em> Basically, I spent almost eight years at Walt Disney World in Orlando. I spent five years working in sales, at Disney University, the training division, human resources, and really fell in love with organizational development. I ended my career in the organizational development group, which ran Disney University and Disney Institute. I come from an operations background; I am a serial entrepreneur. But what is really exciting about tonight is- My father was an assistant dean of a very nice university in Texas, and my mother was a schoolteacher, believe it or not. They were so civically minded my whole life. I grew up as the norm with the notion that Mom and Dad were always gone in the evenings at board meetings and volunteering and whatnot. I think that is where it all started for me.</p> <p>When I left Disney, I had a few more entrepreneurial successes and worked in corporate life. Over the last 20 years, my wife and I have been drawn to organizations in South Africa, three of them specifically. They all do different things. One is sustainable support for an entire village. The others are helping orphans in South Africa. I really come tonight with not only a spirit for nonprofits, but also as a change management consultant, what I am also doing is not only serving on boards myself and participating in what we would call trainwreck meetings and seeing some of the most dysfunctional groups, but I have also been privileged, both in terms of small nonprofits and huge big-name organizations, to see what works, and that is what I am excited to share. It’s not about me, but what I have seen that really works around the country.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russell and I are what we call in the SynerVision Leadership Foundation, which is a 501(c)3, WayFinders. We are coming full circle from the consultant answer-man to the WayFinder, who is a partner who asks questions to empower and enable people. Part of our methodology is running power-packed meetings. As a conductor, you never saw a conductor use an agenda for a rehearsal. We do away with words like “agenda” and focus on deliverables. You and I are going to have some lively conversation. We have moved away from the consultant model. I went through a phase where I decided a consultant would be an insultant, and then I moved to resultant. But really, in my persona, it’s about the integration of strategy and performance.</p> <p>You spent some really good years with Disney. Was that in California or Florida?</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> It was in Florida, and then I ended up in the Northeast.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Uh huh. And you’re in Pennsylvania now?</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> Yes. I was going to come here for three years, do grad school, and leave. Now I have been married 15 years. I have a 13-year-old boy and a Goldendoodle and a Corgi, and the rest is history, as they say.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Life goes zoom. Anything else you want to say about yourself before we get into some of the hard content? I have interrupted you there.</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> No. I am just excited to be here and answer questions and serve in any way I can.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I took your title verbatim: “Termites Destroying Your Board? How to Exterminate Board Dysfunction Once and for All.” We are talking about getting more done in less time. You are singing my song so to speak. Bigger impact and lasting results.</p> <p>You said you have participated in nonprofit boards for quite a while. Part of the expertise Russ and I have is working with boards and helping them build a culture of high performance. What is your experience? Do you work externally with boards, or have you just sat on boards as a boardperson?</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> I have sat on boards, and then as a consultant, I helped a couple of the nonprofits in South Africa, which are both 501(c)3s and American-based as well as South African-based. I helped them from the ground up get crystal clear about their mission, what they were going to focus on, and what they were not going to focus on. That brings up one of the key points for me, which is so often I see people struggle with saying no, and they wonder why their board is sitting there with 17 items on their strategic plan. I was trying to help those two organizations benefit from the beginning. I am excited to share that one of those organizations is now 14 years old and has 25 homes for orphans in South Africa, which is exciting.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is very exciting. You said in passing the term “change management consultant.” What does that mean?</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> For us, change management consulting is coming alongside senior leaders, organizations, nonprofits, CEOS, C-suite groups, and helping them in a few different ways. One is: What are the best practices to get adoption and people to embrace the change, not be afraid of it, push through their fear, but really how to implement change that is not so painful through the first year of the introduction, and what also sticks and lasts and what really makes it work. We focus on three different parts. There is the larger organization, there is the group component, and there is the individual and the leadership piece. What I would say is where we spend most of our time with nonprofit boards is acknowledging the cultural norms and realities of what they are dealing with. I am talking about what the cultural norm is as it relates to leaders and what they are bringing into their room—call it bias or cultural norm—and then there is organizationally what the organization wants to do, and then there is the people stuff. We really work on the triangle of the organization, the group, and the leader. We try as best we can to get people to start from a place of humility, which is we don’t know what we don’t know. We really try to start from a very humble place.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The triangle is the organization, the people, and I forgot the other one.</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> The culture.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The culture.</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> I will give you an example. What South African colleges and universities consider a graduate degree skilled proficient educator or teacher would barely be equal to an undergraduate American professional in education.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my goodness.</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> There is a great example going globally. South Africans will talk about the challenges they have and why their teachers are struggling. When you bring Americans or Europeans over to help, they are aghast and saying, “Wait. You’re talking about basic issues like Teacher 101.” What we have learned on the global stage, and why we really struggle with the humility piece, is what we have experienced on the African continent—and we are about 15 years through this journey—and not to offend anybody, is this notion of white, American, faith-based organizations landing in Africa and saying, “We have the solution.” Friends of ours have spent the past 11 years starting their own nonprofit organizations in Africa. They have discovered the notion of let’s show up as first-world human beings and ask, “What do you need?” instead of saying, “We have all the solutions.” The organizations in sub-Saharan Africa that are European- or American-based that have done that have found far greater success and far less challenge upfront.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is so spot-on with our SynerVision philosophy. What do you think, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> I think that’s marvelous and that is my philosophy when I go into work. I ask a lot of questions. Something I picked up as an IRS agent is that it’s like Colombo. You ask questions like a second grader until it gets clear. The more you can get people to talk about themselves, they often give themselves their own answer because they talk it through. My whole gig is to pull the genius out of people that is already there.</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> Russ, you had a great conversation with my consulting partner Dennis who has dedicated his life to being the drama-free guy. He really focuses a lot of his time on how to ask better questions.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is the secret of the coaching of what we do as WayFinders. You mentioned books. Stephen is prolific and has written a lot of books. He has written <em>The Five-Minute Secret: How to Connect with Anyone Anywhere at Any Time.</em> You have <em>Success from the Inside Out. Clean is Not Enough.</em> You’re a good title guy. You have co-authored a book called <em>Jumpstart Your Creativity.</em> Some people are boring with titles, but you got it down. You know how to do an interesting title.</p> <p>I am excited about the synergy. By the way, I named our company SynerVision, which is the synergy of the common vision. There is so much resonance of what you are talking about in what we stand for.</p> <p>Let’s talk about boards. As this change management consultant—I think I heard you say you have had experience with nonprofits for 20 years—I know you helped them be effective at what they are trying to do. What do you see as the overarching challenge when board members and nonprofit leaders are struggling?</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> To start off with the big umbrella, it’s just the synthesis of my life journey, this doesn’t mean anything I am about to say is right or wrong, but from a change management perspective and having had two teachers as parents, with a father as a Socratic teacher who asked me questions constantly, from that lens, what I would say is it starts with this: Boards that struggle, no matter how big or small or complex or simple that is, tend to fail in what I call the overarching idea of living community. What I mean by that is within that notion of living in a mission-based, volunteer world to make a bigger impact, the notion of authentic genuine, open communication, having the trust and the managerial courage to deal with tough issues, failing forward, a lot of that safety and trust is absent in the boards that struggle with community. I know you all know this, as you are experts far better than me in how to help boards with the vast experience you have all had, but I think you would agree. You have one meeting with a board, and halfway through or a third of the way through the meeting, you have a sense of what the culture is as it relates to community.</p> <p>One of the most powerful examples, and I am sharing this simply hoping that someone will think about themselves. As you are listening to this, think about who you are and how you show up. But I will share this. There is an organization I have worked with that is 20 years old and just recently a big, big name has joined the organization. Because of the absence of the tools that I am going to talk about tonight, or the effective managerial courage and leadership to drive it, guess what has happened in the last year and a half? The organization has made massive strategic shifts, not because the group wanted to with consensus, but because the billion-dollar family wanted to do it. They have now expanded. As an example, using operational financials, 50% of their entire annual fund is now deployed in new strategies. Why? Because it happens to be near where the homes and the properties are that are owned by the billion-dollar family. All of a sudden, you have this massive dysfunction of one family comes in, and because they are billionaires and so powerful, the cultural norms of avoiding difficult conflicts and conversations. So what has happened is as big-hearted and well-meaning as this family is, it has become dysfunctional, and now you are seeing donations go down. They just did an Indiegogo campaign that was not as successful as the past ones. You have seen volunteerism go down, as rated by the number of days people are volunteering with the organization on a routine basis go down. And they have lost three people who were members of the board, drumroll, who were involved with the board for ten years and have exited in the last four months.</p> <p>One of my passions is helping the original founder of the nonprofit and the chairman/president be skilled enough so that when the train is coming down the track, they can at least have better skills than most. When they see that train coming, they can assess and determine if that train is going to run us over or pick us up and take us somewhere really special. I think that’s the secret.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’ll let Russ weigh in here a minute, but in my 31 years of experience, I see very few boards, if any, function up to the expectations of the leader or even to their own expectations. You take really good people who are successful in their lives and put them on a nonprofit board, and you duct tape their mouth and tie their hands, so to speak. The system itself does not promote all the good stuff that you just articulated. The culture is so key. I’d like you to comment on a couple of the methodologies we use at SynerVision. We have people weigh in on the board covenant. What is it they promise to each other? It’s interesting what people come up with. It’s their commitment to each other as peer-to-peer accountability. Too often, the leader feels they have to hold everybody accountable, whether it’s the board chair or the executive director. They think it all revolves around them making things happen. But really, if the culture creates the standards, they are going to enforce them.</p> <p>The other piece we go into is what we call guiding principles. I don’t know this, but experiencing Disney from the outside, it’s really clear that their principles for employees is very clear, how they make decisions. We are the guest. They are always going to help us. Ask somebody sweeping the streets a question, and they can take you there and answer that question. Southwest Airlines is the hospitality company. Companies like that have a very clear set of guiding principles so they know how they are supposed to function. I don’t find either, the covenant or the operating guide of how we are going to function as a team or how we are going to make decisions as a team with your guiding principles.</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> Bingo. That last one, how we are going to make decisions and the authority and all that, is gigantic. That is where the failure comes because of the absence of all of this. What I would share with you very quickly is this. The Disney version of that is safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency. It’s in that order. Van Nam was a consultant that worked with Walt Disney in the 1950’s to figure all of this out before Disneyland opened in 1955 in California. The concept was that safety is first because without safety, you don’t have anything if it’s going to be a theme park. Safety, courtesy, show, we’re all a part of the magic. And the last one is efficiency.</p> <p>You have to get 1,800 guests an hour through the attraction of the Haunted Mansion. Let’s say we had 19 guests in the last hour that were in wheelchairs, so we had to slow down that conveyor belt because the Haunted Mansion is loaded with a conveyor belt. All of a sudden, you look at the numbers in the control center and you see you are not going to make your 1,800 count. The fourth value is efficiency, not the first. So here is the secret. To your point, hourly cast members were raised- I used to teach perditions, the first three days of orientation at Disney University. What I would teach is you can never go out of order: safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency. So you could never be rude to guests or hold back people that needed assistance to enter that attraction because you are going to get your number. That hierarchy of thinking is exactly what you are talking about.</p> <p>Sixteen-year-old kids who sit at home and never say anything to Mom and Dad at the dinner table, all of a sudden, if that same kid is now at Disneyworld and he understands safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency, then we sell happiness is what we train all the new hires to understand. Backstage, we sell happiness. The way we do that is we create magic. The standard, which is the covenant, as an example using the covenant language, one of the standards is consistently seek out guest contact. Those words were all very definitive and intentional. Consistently (not just when you want to) seek out (don’t just let the guest walk over you, you seek them out, make eye contact) guest contact.</p> <p>To wrap all of that up, what I would share with you—and this has carried over into my consulting and my own life as a parent and husband—I have thought about what are those standards I want to live by and behaviors I want to commit to. Here is how powerful this is. You have this 16-year-old who sits at home and never looks up from their phone, but you put them in the culture at Disneyworld, and what happens? They see a father in the Magic Kingdom walking with an Epcot Center guidebook, and the same kid walks up and goes, “Oh hi, are you headed over to Epcot Center later this evening to see Illuminations, the fireworks show?” They say, “Yes, how did you know?” Well, that’s the secret, the magic. This guest doesn’t realize that this kid has been taught that if you are in the Magic Kingdom in front of the castle and you see a father or mother with an Epcot Center guidebook, that is an opportunity for magic. So what the kid says is, “Would you like to know the secret best place to go inside the world showcase to see the fireworks?” “Sure, that’d be great.”</p> <p>What happens then to wrap all of that up—I still get goosebumps telling you this—you can take the person out of Disney, but you can’t take the Disney out of the person—but what I would share with you is absolutely part of the secret of Disney is safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency, we sell happiness, we create magic, and then there is the standard of consistently seek out guest contact. Here is the big one. We also then teach the why to the cast member to understand why you’re doing this. Do you know what magic is? The last piece for me on this on the Disney benchmark is then showing them ways they can make magic. So you see a family walking through the park with a camera. You will see teenage cast members run up to that family and say, “Sir, can I take that picture for you so you can be in it?” Well, why is that such a treasured thing to do working at Disneyworld? Because, when you are a new hire, we would tell story after story that the Christmas card is going to be the picture of the family, and in the old days, this will date me, but it used to be that American families spent 36 rolls of film in one trip at Disneyworld.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my goodness.</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> They would get home, and the average for most families is there would be three pictures of the entire family in the 36 rolls of film. To wrap all this up, what we do is teach that the holiday card is going to be that picture of the whole family at Disneyworld. The one that is huge today is when you go to a funeral, and Grandpa has passed away, the tradition in America at least is you go to the funeral and what do they have? Pictures up on an easel. At the time, we had 81,000 guest letters of people writing in saying, “Four months after we were at Disneyworld, my grandfather died. I want you to know the picture at the memorial service was the picture in front of Splash Mountain. I wanted to say thank you to the kid Skip who took that picture.” The magic was then to go back as a company and find Skip and say, “You made magic.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s lovely. What if we had that same mindset? We use the word “nonprofit” because we gotta make profit, and we start dumbing down to the lowest common denominator. But what if we were able to, and we settle for less than excellence, less than efficient, less than safety. What gift do you have to inspire board members? I think it’s up to the board members to step up and say I want to do better.</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> Great question. One of the ways that I think you can really help these volunteer board members as well as leaders, whether it is a member of a committee or the chairman, is to make it personal. Here is what I mean. 1,100 hospitals have licensed my Patient Satisfaction Program, and one of the things that both Quint Stuter and the Stuter Group and myself really made famous in hospitals is behavior standards.</p> <p>One of the things I would give you as an example is imagine your covenants. Go back to what you said, Hugh. Imagine if you had these covenants for these board members you were speaking to. We are talking about how to maintain excellence and inspire them to that. What if the standard was no triangulation? If the banker is upset with the CPA who is upset with the multi-millionaire retired business owner who is upset with the schoolteacher, and you have all the baggage and crap that goes with those labels in our society, no, no, no. It doesn’t matter who you are. The issue is no triangulation. What does that mean? If you have an issue with anybody, you go to them. You don’t run to me. Or the chairman says, “If you do have an issue, come to me and check in. That’s fine. I can help you navigate this.” That is where your WayFinding is so brilliant in terms of what you are teaching because you can help them navigate a constructive conversation. That is one.</p> <p>Another is take 100% responsibility for everything you do and say. Take 100% responsibility. That is a success principle that Jack Canfield has really focused on.</p> <p>Another one is keep your agreements.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Oh my.</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> What is really neat is if you think about language, so be humble at all times. Remember we don’t know what we don’t know, the humility piece. Managerial courage is caring enough about the other person to say something, to not cower away. Embracing failing forward. The big one that is always so cliché is mission first. What does that mean?</p> <p>That is what I would do. If you don’t care about triangulation, then you won’t achieve excellence. If you don’t care about taking 100% responsibility… It could be as simple as the person in the role of secretary is supposed to have the notes at the meeting sent out by the next morning because we are all busy people. But everybody talks for years now that the secretary gets them out the Thursday after the week after the week after the meeting is over. Now what I have opened up, Hugh, is what do you do then when those types of behaviors fester, which is against the standard of excellence? That is where I think boards fail and struggle in the moments of difficulty and failure. But you have to start with the standards. You have to have the language. You have to start somewhere. You have to wiggle your spinal cord.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yeah, we are in the same place. A lot of it the leader lets happen. We think it’s going to go away. I have an e-book out on Amazon called <em>Creating Healthy Teams.</em> It’s all about this intervention piece of managing conflict.</p> <p>Russ, in your work with the Indian reservation and some of the charities, what do you tag here in the brilliant stuff he is giving us tonight?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> This is all really excellent stuff. He is preaching to the choir here. I know in my case, I have worked some insane hours. You get a few drivers that are dedicated, and they don’t take care of themselves. They burn out as a result. You have to have an open communication where you can have those tough conversations with the board or course-correct. When something is not going well with a project, folks don’t want to talk about it because they want to look “good” for the funding sources. It’s best that if you have some sort of problem, you have to be transparent and talk about it as quick as you can. Even if it’s just discomfort, you need to go to your leader and express that instead of sweeping it under the rug. A lot of this is having those conversations. That is a culture piece. If you don’t have that culture in place where you can do that, you will have some difficulties.</p> <p>Also what you were talking about is what I would call the solid foundation, which is step one of the four steps of building a high-performance nonprofit. That is the process I will work with people in corporations through that I am still fine-tuning. Building that foundation is looking at what you have and what you need and being able to establish that communication, culture, and ground rules. It’s easier when you start. But you are probably used to going in and finding stuff in every state of operation, being a change management consultant. It’s tricky, and it’s a lot of fun when you ask a lot of questions and you generally bring people to a place where they figure out they don’t know what they don’t know. Nobody likes to be told there is something wrong with them. But I ask enough questions that people after a while are dropping these gems on themselves. Once they come to that point, you can continue that conversation and move forward. But it’s tough to get there sometimes. There is a lot of conflict. When you walk into some situations, you are going to find a massive amount of conflict because things have gone the way they have gone. How do you start off when you walk into these situations where you have some strong personalities and a lot bubbling under the surface because you have let this strong personality dominate?</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> There are a couple things. There is a soft approach. It’s all about winning the war, not the battle, right? We all know that. One principle that guides us is people don’t argue with their own data. The magic of what you all are teaching with asking the better questions is you are helping people realize that when they make it their own and identify it, they solve their own problems, as we talked about earlier.</p> <p>I do behavioral styles training. For years, I have been using Tony Alexander’s Platinum Rule. There are four quadrants. It’s a simpler, cleaner version of Myers Briggs. The concept is I start with understanding: Did you know there are four statistically proven, research-based styles? Did you know those four styles each have a deep driving need, a way they see the world and what they value in that world, and the one thing that is the risk or the weakness? The real principle for me there is teaching people any strength taken too far can become a weakness. The overuse of a strength, as this group Strength Scope, which is a brilliant group, they are taking what Gallop did with Strengths Finder- The concept is that the overuse of a strength is the overuse of a skill. That is the soft approach.</p> <p>If I were to leave this fine earth tomorrow, what I am about to say is the tool I hope people would embrace. There is a very simple one, and there is a complex one that has a process that is not that complex. All these tools are in the book <em>Success from the Inside Out,</em> which I’d like to offer your group access to the PDF version as a way to give back. It was written as an action guide format. There is a chapter called “What Makes the Disney Difference?” There is a chapter talking about behavioral standards. And there is this chapter that I am talking about here.</p> <p>Very quickly, this is the concept. This is the single most powerful exercise I have ever done. If I need to level an organization, or if a CEO hires me and says, “I need to reach into the belly of this beast and wake my executives up,” this is what we do. You get people together, get an outside facilitator, and collect feedback in writing, not public discussion, but individually on pieces of paper, and what they are doing is opening up their head and heart and answering the questions: What are you mad about? What are you sad about? What are you glad about? Working here as part of this board. When you think about coming here every month, with the way this board works, what are you mad about? Or what are you mad about with the way the chairman interacts with us? Or what are you mad about, sad about, or glad about? You make them think about those things.</p> <p>What you do is have them all write it down on a piece of paper. The outside person collects all those pieces of paper, types it all up, and looks at the trends. The concept is no one else sees the handwriting of the participants. It’s anonymous.</p> <p>Mad, glad, and sad is only the emotional side, but it’s the way to start. It’s what opens the door. Here is where the $150,000 of free consulting comes in. When you ask the people these questions, “We can identify the things that frustrate us, but now let’s talk about solutions.” You have them take out another piece of paper, and write down when you think about the chairman of the board or the committee leaders or all of us as a group collectively, what do we as mature, grown adult members of this board need to stop doing, start doing, and continue doing? The brain science magic on this is when you ask a human being who has now emotively unloaded and are feeling good about getting that off their chest… By the way, about 10% of the data you gather from the sad/mad/glad will be surprises to the chairman. If they are really an ostrich with their head buried in the sand, 25% of the data will be a surprise to them. They will say, “I didn’t know that they were that upset.” We have only been talking about that every single meeting when we wait until you leave and get in your car and then complain about it behind your back.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Break room, yes.</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> Stop/start/continue is where you transform the organization, to answer your question, Russ. If you could simply get organizations, even if it was just the C-suite group, the top senior leaders, to simply sit twice a year and go, “What do you and I start doing, stop doing, and continue doing to make this a better place?” If you want to go and really transform the nonprofit organization, go ask your volunteers, “What do the leaders of this nonprofit need to stop doing, start doing, and continue doing? They are not going to see your handwriting. They are not going to see your name. Just tell us.” When that data comes pouring in and you look at it, what I do is type it up into PowerPoint slides. You can see that 18/34 said, “We don’t start meetings on time.” 27/34 people said, “There is no accountability here, and there are three people who have so much favoritism and nepotism that they get away with murder.” Okay. Now you have people surfacing a difficult issue.</p> <p>Just like anything, as you talked about with process, you need a safety net. You don’t want people to get hurt and stir up and trigger events. There is a best practice on how to do it. Here is where I am going with this. Anybody listening, if you could do this in your marriage, what do I need to stop doing, start doing, or continue doing to be a better husband? What do I need to stop doing or start doing this summer to be a better father to my 13-year-old boy who is really thriving and doing exceptionally well with tae-kwon-do? How can I better support him? I need to start making more time to go to tae-kwon-do practices with him. I need to start more consistently practicing with him at home. Great example. The other day, I bought a 70-pound body bag to hang from the ceiling. How many months do you think I have ben thinking about buying that body bag for my son? When you do stop/start, that is where you get off your duff, drive your car to Target, and buy the bag. The interesting thing is that today, body bags are only $60 now.</p> <p>How many times do boards complain about how expensive it is… I am using this as a metaphor. You go to your local Goodwill store, and somebody will have already donated their body bag back to the local Goodwill store. It will be hanging in a corner. You ask Goodwill if you can buy it for $10. One of the principles I try to help organizations with is there is always a way.</p> <p>The other thing is that N-O = O-N. No=On. When you say no to things, it keeps what matters most on. You stay focused on the things that matter. The one thing is the one thing is a great principle. I am going back to both of your questions. Safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency was a way of trying to figure out the language, which everybody is picking up now. A lot of what you are hearing from me tonight is about language. I know this is huge for the two of you as well. It’s really about language.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It is. Underneath communications is relationships. You have covered a lot of territory here, and you have answered the questions we posted. Except I’d like to hear on this meeting thing. There is a fifth unposted question out there. I like this mad/glad/sad/stop/start/continue. This is similar to tools we use, but it is distinctively different. Pretty brilliant. Will you give us the link for that free book?</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> Go to talkwithstephen.com, and what they can do is go in as if they were scheduling an appointment, and put in the comment box they would like a copy of the book and I will send them the books of <em>Jumpstart Your Creativity</em> and <em>Success from the Inside Out.</em> They won’t be enrolled in any email list or any autoresponder messages from me. I don’t do that. I don’t even have opt-in boxes on my websites. Just go to talkwithstephen.com. Book the appointment, we can cancel it later. Simply make a note that they want the book. If they want to ask a question, that’s great. I will get back to them. But they can also just say, “Send me the book,” and I will send those two.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This last one is a real zinger. I wish you lived closer so we could have coffee and talk more. There is this thing about meetings and making decisions together. One of my e-books out there is <em>Conducting Power Impact Meetings.</em> I approach it like a conductor builds ensemble, so meetings in my world are the number one killer of high-functioning teams. But they are the number one empowerment vehicle for high-performing teams. We can go either way. The difference is how the leader builds the culture through the DNA of rehearsal together. We rehearse for excellence, or we rehearse for mediocrity or even less. Give us the Stephen snapshot of decision-making. What are some of the things that are important in meetings to you?</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> Delivering a promise I made a minute ago: If mad/sad/glad/stop/start/continue is a process piece, the one I want to give everybody as a gift that you can share with your loved ones but also with yourself is a mini version. Hugh, let me ask you a question. If you could change any one thing immediately about the way you are spending your private time—say you used to have a hobby but no longer—what would you change? That question is a really powerful question. I use that to answer your question because one of the best practices in meetings for me is being able to facilitatively know when to ask that question. “Okay, I hear everybody complaining about the payroll system and the clocking in system and that you are frustrated about the accuracy of paychecks. If we could change any one thing immediately, what would we change?” That is an example of a powerful facilitative question.</p> <p>Number two: I believe that standing meetings, no chairs, no food, and no meetings longer than an hour unless justified by the seniors. There are some process pieces, too. But the one I would share that is critically important—this is my life work and John Connor’s life work, the Harvard professor—he wrote a book called <em>Urgency—</em>John Connor is one of the really sage experts in change management. In his original books around change, he identified the nine key principles that you have to press in order to have lasting successful change.</p> <p>People don’t argue with their own data. When you ask great questions, and when you ask that above question, now you start to get a group moving forward. What are the secret tools in the toolbox? If your group does not have a crystal clear understanding of the urgency of addressing this issue or the urgency of the need for change, if they do not understand the pain of continuing to do the status quo, then you are, according to John Connor’s life work—and I have experienced it myself after 20 years of change management—missing the single most powerful lever for success that is research-based and proven. If the leaders do not establish amongst themselves the urgency, the why is it so urgent we have to fix the payroll system, why is it that paychecks have to get mailed out on time. If they cannot get together about the urgency and the why behind that urgency, they are missing the fundamental, most powerful lever you can start with to effectively drive change.</p> <p>I will wrap up with this. In meetings, one of the most powerful tools I have come across over the years is the three D’s. I want to hear your thoughts on this, too because you all have dedicated time to this. One little tool is three D’s. It could be a part of a meeting, the first twenty minutes, and the last forty minutes is another topic. Or you could have one meeting with just one D. There are Discovery meetings, which is where last month, seven different people left with topics to research. They come back and you will dedicate 20 minutes. Each person will have two minutes to discover or talk about what they discovered out there in the universe.</p> <p>Another example would be Distribution, which is okay, you went out and gathered this, but now let’s distribute amongst ourselves what we need to do, leveraging the experts in the room, to take all the discovery information, distribute amongst ourselves to move this forward, to get to what, a decision. What I have found is whether it’s for profit or a nonprofit, I believe personally the reason meetings suck is nobody wants to make a decision because if we don’t make a decision, then I don’t have to be held accountable for any expectation after the meeting is over. If we can subconsciously keep this ball bouncing… I know we are doing dinner next month with the board, but what I would like to have you do is come in 20 minutes early and have a meeting about the meeting we had last time and then we will talk about what meeting we need to book for that meeting because nobody wants to make a decision.</p> <p>So discovery, you focus everybody. What do you all know? What do we need to distribute amongst each other now that we have done that discovery process? The last one is time to make a Decision. The decision piece hopefully is not the first time the group is bringing up the urgency conversation. To help everybody with a concrete technique, what happens if we do nothing? I love this question. If you want to see silence in a board room, they will surface an issue and are fuming, ask them that. What you will see in that moment is people will either come fighting for their cause or people will look back and say honestly,” I think we have bigger fish to fry. Rome is burning. I don’t think we need to worry about that. You are talking about golf course issues and the grass on the green.” Boom. Thank you. By simply asking that one question, if we do nothing, what happens? It helps people stop and pause. People don’t let boards sit and quiet.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You hit that a minute ago. The silence piece. It’s powerful.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I am a big fan of silence. It’s part of my meditative routine in the morning. Instead of using something guided, it’s silence a lot of times. It’s really powerful. I have sat in meetings, and silence makes people uncomfortable. They are not used to being. They are used to doing. They feel like they have to do something. I consider silence a power tool.</p> <p>There is one question, and I think you may have covered it. David Dunworth posed a question. He said, “We used a similar process with employees in large organizations we call the 360-degree feedback system.” He posed a question about a smaller organization, and he says, “How can smaller social enterprises instill that spirit you are discussing into a tiny nonprofit that is struggling to find effective board members?”</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> The first part of that question is how they can instill which spirit? Which piece of it are they talking about?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> We were talking about motivating board members. That was at the point we were talking about motivating board members.</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> Okay. What I would do is do you know the why? If you look at your most successful, invigorated, excited people who are supporting you, whether it’s donors, community leaders, influencers, or board members, do you know the why for each of them, and are you looking for the distinctions of the patterns? Here is what it could sound like. If they do that homework as a small nonprofit, they could say, if you are at lunch with someone and you want to plug someone in: “You might find it interesting that 40% of our raving fans, the people most committed to this organization, the thing they are really drawn by is what we are doing with policy-makers to change the healthcare code as it relates to geriatric patients. That is what is driving them.” The fact that you know 40% of the people who are most engaged are most excited about this one thing, at least you are now putting a voice, safety, concern, show, efficiency, you are putting a language to those fundamental building blocks.</p> <p>Number two, quickly off the cuff on that, is do you have your own story clear enough? This is the piece I would talk about. I’ll do it this way. I will do two things simultaneously quickly here. Imagine if at the beginning of our talk today, instead of me talking about my past and what I did with Disney and all of that, imagine if we had started this talk tonight this way. “Stephen, where are you headed, and what are you most passionate about when it comes to nonprofit boards?” Well now I will share with you what Dennis, the drama-free teams expert, would say: He is on a mission between now and 2020 to create 10,000 drama-free teams in healthcare in hospitals. He is about to launch drama-free nursing, and he wants to help nurses, the largest department in hospitals, eliminate their drama.</p> <p>What I would share is this. Imagine if we could focus on where we are headed. What is the goal? What are we trying to do? What is the result? Bring that story forward along with consistently seeking out guest contact, safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency. Now we have something more compelling, and you are drawing people to it.</p> <p>One other thing I want to take a moment to say is that “imagine” is a very powerful word. It’s called an imagine statement. Imagine in just three short years we eradicate polio from the continent. Think about that. Everybody uses the JFK example of going to the moon. Why was that so profound? He cast a vision that was so profound it almost… How are we going to do that?</p> <p>I used to run mastermind groups for small business owners in home services, plumbing, electrical, and maid services. I need everybody to hear this. I am not selling this service. I am not doing that. This is an Imagine statement. People would say, “Stephen, what do you do? I understand you work with small business owners.” I am translating what I am about to say as a framework for you. You are a small business owner, and I respond, “Imagine doubling your sales, tripling your net profit, and retiring in 3-5 years, guaranteed. Imagine doubling your sales, tripling your net profit, and retiring in 3-5 years, guaranteed.” Here is what happened. I interviewed 1,700 business owners in plumbing, electrical, and maid service in 2004, and what I discovered was that they worked hard but didn’t make any money, they worked hard but didn’t have a growing company, they wanted to retire, they wanted to turn over their business to their kids. If you translate that into what you are trying to do in the future and figure out what your imagine statement is… Think about the Gates foundation with mosquitoes and mosquito nets. Imagine eradicating malaria by 2020.</p> <p>The other thing I have modeled for everybody was the power of a pause. That is that moment for leaders. Next time you run a meeting, folks, let me ask you a question. *pause* All you do is sit at that board table, look down, and break eye contact with them. If you could change what we are doing immediately about this golf tournament, is this really the best way for us to make money this year? Is there another way? If we could change anything immediately about how we are raising money for this organization this year, what would it be? All of a sudden, you will have the audience in the palm of your hand. I turn it over to you, Hugh. I’d love to get your reaction to some of this.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is profound stuff. We could talk the rest of the night. I want to do a wrap here. I will come back to you in the end, Stephen. I was trying to capture that. That is one of the most useful things you said all night. That one is an eye-opener. I want to let you think for a minute as a parting wish, thought, tip for people. Russ, do you have any closing comments you want to make? I want to make a couple announcements.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> No, I don’t have anything to add, except my thanks. I want to make sure we get his question. I took copious notes. I have learned a lot from you. I look forward to talking with you again in the future. It has been marvelous. Thank you so much.</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> Thank you. An honor.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s a gift to have you with us, Stephen. Russ shows me up all the time. I have to be careful. He has taken really good notes here. He has a way of summarizing key points and putting them in. David Dunworth who asked the question was on this series a while back, and he had one of our great interviews as well. Thank you for being on here, David, and others.</p> <p>What parting thought would you like to leave with people?</p> <p><strong>Stephen:</strong> Folks, life is short. I just turned 50 years old, and I have a 13-year-old son, an 8-year-old dog, a puppy, and a 52-year-old wife. What I would invite everybody to think about beyond all the clichés of why we are here, what we are doing, what is the meaning of life, beyond all of that, I would make it a little bit simpler. It’s 2017. In 2027, ten years from now, summer of 2027, if you are still with us here on this earth, God willing, as true as day, you will be standing there. You will be alive and living your life. Here is my simple question. Between now and then, how do you want to spend it? How do you want to spend it? Do you want to spend it as the person who gets consumed by all the things in the media, the news, and the press, with everything that is wrong with the country and the world? Or do you want to be that light of hope and be a role model for others? Even beyond that, live the best life you can live?</p> <p>My question for you is: Between now and next summer, one year from now, how do you want to spend it? Hugh will have this podcast next June, and you will be here next June after a year’s worth of podcasts. Give yourself the gift today or tomorrow and simply think about how do you want to spend it? If you do that, that is time well worth spending.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Good words, sir.</p>  <p> </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Avoid Leadership Burnout with Outsourcing Staff</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/avoid-leadership-burnout</link>
      <description>Nathan Hirsch is the CEO of FreeeUp.com and the COO of Portlight. Nate has been an entrepreneur in the eCommerce industry since 2009 and has grown into a leading expert in the field with experience managing multi-million dollar businesses. He has extensive knowledge in creating business systems and processes, personnel management, hiring remote workers, the Amazon Marketplace, and advanced sales tactics. He is passionate about sharing his knowledge with others and has been featured on leading industry podcasts, webinars, and blogs.
 Nate is determined to build FreeeUp into the top hands-on platform for hiring remote workers where thousands of businesses and remote workers are connected. If you're interested in connecting with Nate, shoot him an email at Nathan@FreeeUp.com.
 The Transcript
 NPC Interview with Nathan Hirsch – 6/13/17
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, everyone. This is the Nonprofit Chat. Tonight’s guest is Nathan Hirsch. I just met Nathan a month ago. I was smart enough to recognize this guy had talent, so I am giving myself credit for that. I posted a little information about you, and I’d prefer for guests to give us a synopsis of what brings you to this discipline that you do so well. I’d like to say your company is called Freeeup.com, and it’s an outsourcing company. The reason I wanted you on this series is because I see so many people who are working at the leadership level that are overfunctioning and doing way too much. We are going to talk about how to leverage time by putting in part-time employees. Nathan, speak a little bit about your journey and why you are so good at what you offer.
 Nathan Hirsch: It’s funny. When I first talked to you, I was like, “My mom owns a nonprofit.” I’d seen her journey from being a one-woman show to finally retiring and upgrading the location she was at, having a huge staff, taking more and more off her plate. I got that business, entrepreneurial, delegating mentality from a very young age.
 When I was in college, I started a textbook business trying to cut off the school bookstore because I was mad at them for ripping me off and giving me pennies on the dollar when I thought I could get more. Before I knew it, I had lined my college dorm room buying people’s books. That led me to Amazon.com because you don’t sell books for very long without learning about Amazon. Before I knew it, I was running this multi-million-dollar drop-shipping business on Amazon, working with all these different vendors and suppliers, selling stuff out of my college dorm room. It was just me doing everything, from filling orders to answering customer emails. I was driving myself crazy. I was going to college at the same time, trying to have good grades, trying to balance a girlfriend and a million other things that happen while you are at school. I remember going to my accountant one day, and he was like, “So, when are you hiring your first employee?” I was like, “Why would I do that? I don’t want to give my money to someone else. I really enjoy what I’m doing. This is fun. I am going to work seven days a week.” He just laughed in my face.
 After that meeting, I quickly got to hiring. I opened up an office and moved stuff around. I ended up getting rid of that and making my company remote. I always ran into hiring dilemmas because I would make really good hires, things like Connor, who was my business partner for a long time. But then I would make bad hires, who cost me time and money and set me back. Although I got better at hiring, the amount of applicants got greater and greater because I was hiring for all these different things. Yes, I perfected this hiring process, but then I found myself in the interview room six hours a day interviewing people, going through multiple rounds and resumes, only to find that some of them, even though I’d vetted them properly, still didn’t work out and cost me money. So I got really frustrated at that and thought there had to be a better way. There had to be a company where I could tell them what I wanted—if I needed a graphic designer, I don’t want to wait three weeks to get one by vetting through fifty applicants. This is what I need, and I could get them by the end of the day.
 This is how I came up with the idea of Freeeup, where instead of the marketplace being a free-for-all, it is very organized. People apply to get into the marketplace, they are heavily vetted, we make sure they have a good attitude and communication, and we make them available to clients so they can get access to talent quickly, no matter what it is.
 Hugh: I love it. Our co-host, Russell Dennis, has joined us. Russell, say hello to Nathan.
 Russell Dennis: Good afternoon. Good to meet you, Nathan. I love the concept of Freeeup and pre-vetting virtual assistants because they are practically everywhere. I have just had that one follow me on my Twitter feed who looks like they are doing the same thing or something similar. These agencies are starting to turn up, but I haven’t seen anything quite like what you are doing before.
 Nathan: Thank you. Great to meet you as well. You’re right. There are so many different agencies and marketplaces. I have hired from all of them. I kind of took what I liked and what I hated and put together a concept that really works for business owners. The downside of agencies is you never know who is doing the work. You don’t get that one-on-one touch. A lot of times they switch people behind the scenes and you don’t know about it, so the quality goes up and down. The problem with the marketplace is the time and effort it takes to get a good freelancer, and if you invest the training and they decide to quit, there is no one held responsible for that, and you have to start right over. With Freeeup, we have our no-turnover guarantee, where we cover replacement training costs if anyone ever quits. That was the concept behind it. It has been a lot of fun so far.
 Hugh: Having run multiple businesses and church programs and non-profit programs, hiring people is not a skillset that I had. I have it now. Previously, I had a lot of bad hires. You have come at this very early in your life. You have developed this level of expertise. Russell has worked inside a non-profit for 11 years. He also worked for the IRS, so he had to visit a lot of nonprofits, I guess. This whole thing of accomplishing our mission is very elusive, and we are so passionate about it that we just jump in and forget that in this realm of the charity, there are people who will step up as community leaders and work with us. They will say, “I want to help.” There are some tasks that we need to have somebody who is paid, that regular work ethic that someone will do what we have assigned them. There is an exchange of value for pay. We can do that in a charity, actually delegating some things. Part of what we teach at SynerVision about leadership is learning to take things off of your plate. I guess the piece that you just talked about is having the confidence that the person is going to be capable of accomplishing it. We invite people who have businesses and expertise. We are talking about Freeeup, which is Nathan’s business. The people that referred Nathan to me were our friends in Phoenix who do the background checks, former military intelligence people. If they said he is clean, it’s good.
 Nathan, we have to get over this fear of having somebody else do the work. From a leader’s perspective, I have noticed you have a team around you that performs at a pretty high standard. Speak from your own personal perspective. How were you able to make the transition to getting things off of your plate, delegating them?
 Nathan: Sure. Whenever you talk about delegating, you have to be in the mindset that the business has to work for you. You can’t work for the business. If you find yourself trying to catch up and clearing out customer emails and calling everyone back and doing this Excel project and building the website, the business isn’t working for you; you are working for the business. You have to get out of that mentality. You have to get into the mentality that you are a delegator as the owner of the company. There should be a specific thing, or a few things if you are very talented, that you are really good at, that your core competency can really help you excel at. You need to identify those things. If you are good at sales, 80% of your time should be sales. If you are customer service, you should be building customer service programs. If you are a website developer, you should be constantly upgrading your website, and other people should be doing those other things.
 It’s really important that you get into the mentality that the beginning of every day is getting your team organized before you get yourself going. The first thing I do every day is I have a list of people and prioritize them. I go to them one by one, following up with what they are doing, making sure they are on the right track, making sure I answer any of their questions to get them to the next level because if they are sitting there waiting, that is incredibly unproductive. I am not going to start on my project because I get them going.
 On top of that, I make sure things are constantly running at full speed, whether it’s someone working at night or someone working on the weekends. Even when I am on vacation, the business is not going to stop. My whole thing as a business owner is to get into the mentality that I have to get this train running. It takes a lot of organization upfront to build that team, which we will talk about, but the end goal is to have a team that never stops, that keeps moving forward whether you are there or not, and that you are contributing value when you are there to keep them moving further and further along.
 Hugh: We think, and I’m saying we because I am not innocent of any of this, we are essential to the work of the organization when in fact, we don’t need to be essential. We are the cheerleaders; we are the visionaries. It’s the people we bring on board that actually perform the duties that are important to the success of the organization. That thing you just talked about is a paradigm shift. Did you have to make a paradigm shift to make a mental flip that you were going to learn to delegate? Or did that come easily to you?
 Nathan: I came easier to me than it did to my business partner Connor. I remember when I first started delegating after that meeting with the accountant, it becomes addicting. I am a business owner. I am passionate about what I do. I like getting things done. All of a sudden, when I added a few people, I realized I was getting four times the amount of work done, and not only that, but they were doing the work better than I could even do it. They were talents that I didn’t have. When I realized that, then it became easy. You almost become lazy as a business owner because it’s like, “Yeah, I could spend the next three hours doing Quickbooks, or I could pay someone $40 to do it for me.” You just start passing stuff off your plate. You get a lot more done, which leads to more revenue and expanding your company, which leads to hiring more people. It is a really great circle once you get those wheels churning.
 But I remember my business partner Connor managing the company one day when I was on vacation, and he was literally doing everything. Every single tracking email at my Amazon business, he was responding to. When I came back from vacation, I sat him down and said, “You’re stuck. If this is how you want to do business, you are never moving forward. You can’t be my business partner. You are just going to be in this spot forever. There is no way to be on top of your business if you are doing every little thing. You have to take stuff off of your plate. You have to get over that fear of letting go. It’s not until you actually do that that you can accomplish something as an entrepreneur. No matter how big or small your business is, you are going to hit a ceiling, a road block. Right now, if you get sick for two weeks—I had shoulder surgery a month ago. Nothing stopped, things accelerated. I got my team motivated to work because I wasn’t there, and a lot of stuff got done while I was out. You have to look yourself in the eye and figure out if that is going to happen in your business while you are out.
 Hugh: David James Dunworth says, “The real measure of a successful leader is that the operation operates as or more effectively and smoothly when the boss is not there. I call the job of establishing systems and processes to get that point is owner-proofing.” That is getting out of the way, isn’t it. Owner-proofing. We have launched some questions during the interview. You sent me some good questions, and we are sharing them out there on social media. The first one: What would you do if you had two extra hours each day? Russell, what would you do if you had extra time every day?
 Russell: Two extra hours. I would probably be outside walking. Definitely would be outside. It’s not a cloud in sight. It’s about 82 degrees here. That is what I would be doing. I took a break today to walk outside and get around. I love the fresh air. I made a decision to get in a really good condition this spring. I made major changes to my diet. From my last doctor’s appointment about five weeks ago, I am down 27.5 pounds. And I am sleeping better.
 Hugh: Wow. I was with a client today, and they had a management team of about 14 people. They were talking about one of the aspects of one of the department’s work, and they were streamlining and automating. They estimated it would save 3.5 hours a day of the employees, which totally revamped how they were going to assign duties in that department, which is huge. They are installing some automation, which frees up people with a higher level of skill from doing something routine to utilize that skill. Nathan, what would you do with two extra hours if you had them?
 Nathan: I think that’s the difference between running a lifestyle business and trying to get back toward that lifestyle versus a workaholic. For me, when I am freeing up time, which I am constantly doing because I get more and more on my plate, I am just freeing up my time to focus on some other part of my business. I like working ten hours a day, and I am doing that no matter what. If I free up three hours, I may take an extra day off here and there, but I am reinvesting it back in the company. That content video that I didn’t have time to make, now I have time for it. That PR company that I never called back, let’s give them a phone call. For me, I am freeing up time to get more time in my business that focuses on sales, marketing, and expansion. If I am not doing something that focuses on sales, marketing, and expansion, my business is stalling. I am not moving forward as fast as I can. I owe it to the other people on my team to do that. We have all been around that boss where all they do all day is walk around and look over your shoulder. My mentality is if you are doing that, you are not doing what you are supposed to do as a leader. You are not progressing anything forward. You are not making a process better. You are not fixing anything for the future. And you are definitely not growing and expanding your company. Yes, there is a time and place to double-check work and make sure everything is going well, but the goal should be to free up your time for anything that involves expansion.
 Hugh: Why do you think that it’s so hard for people to do that?
 Nathan: Expanding is hard. Get to a point in your company that you are comfortable. You are making money for the first time. You have a stable client base. Anything past that is unknown territory. What happens if you invest in advertising here? What happens if you do 20 phone calls for lead generation and you get rejected 20 times? People don’t want to do what it takes to get to that next level of your business. You eventually stall out. There are people who are very comfortable running a $1 million company or a $4 million company instead of being like, “Hey, every year, I want to grow non-stop. Yes, I am setting goals and guidelines, but if I didn’t get bigger from year to year, I did something wrong that year. I am too involved, or I made a bad decision, or I wasn’t focused on expansion.” A lot of it is fear. Fear is incredibly motivating or unmotivating when it comes to people. Along with delegation, it is something you need to let go of. As a business owner, you need to figure out how to take your business to the next level, whether it is taking that online mastermind class or reading a new book or trial and error, which I am a huge fan of. Figure out a way to free up your time to take the business to the next level.
 Hugh: I’d like to point out that expansion becomes easier after you get older and your metabolism slows down. Not what you were talking about, I don’t think.
 Russ, do you want to piggyback on what he just said? That is so aligned with our philosophy at SynerVision.
 Russell: It very much is. With that extra time for me, I was thinking I needed to take better care of myself so I can do things. Over the course of the day, if I am not learning something or out here reaching out to people or trying to grow that business, then I am in a place where I need to look at getting some of the smaller things off my plate. I have been leveraging technology. I have some people I work with here in my office who are here to help me do some things. I have been able to get more traction by connecting with other people who can help me along in my process, and that is true for anybody. The people who are clients of mine, I actually help them do that. What you are talking about is filling gaps. Those don’t necessarily have to be weaknesses. It could just be things we simply don’t want to do or are not the best use of our time for what we need to do. Nathan hit that on the head: What am I best at, and what are the things only I can do? Those are the things I try to attend to, and I try to hand other things off and find other ways to get them done.
 Hugh: So true. Once we can hand off things, we can focus on what we are supposed to be doing and what we do best. Really, Nathan you talked about what kind of business, a lifestyle business. When we are in business, we need to stop and look at our life plan and make sure the business is fulfilling our life. You are getting ready to go to Mexico in a couple of days. Sounds like you got your act together, boy.
 Nathan: Yeah, I mean I have assistants who monitor my Skype and my email almost 24 hours a day. It took a lot of time and training and investing. There will always be some frustration. You hire four people, and maybe one of them doesn’t work out. They can’t be a reason to give up. You have to learn from those experiences, come up with better systems, come up with better processes, and figure out a way to do it because your competitors are going to do it. At some point, they are going to figure out how to automate it, how to hire the right people, how to make it so their business is getting bigger while you sleep. You have to figure out a way to do that.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I didn’t mean to call you “boy.” I am three times your age, so the perspective…
 Nathan: You can call me “boy” then.
 Hugh: That’s right. And you’re not catching up either.
 The next question that we posted out there, and I did talk about the real time research that people tell me they are struggling with leadership and burnout, the Meyer Foundation did a research project a few years ago and found that the burnout rate for nonprofit executives is 45%. 75% of executives are looking at the door as a way out. We feel like we are trapped and have to do too much. Let’s flip that coin. We are focusing on burnout, we don’t have enough money or time, nobody volunteers. Let’s flip it over. If we weren’t burned out, what would that mean? What could we accomplish?
 Nathan: If you’re not resting, if you are burned out on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis, you are not going to have the productivity that you can. You won’t hit your potential. You’re not going to motivate the people around you. You’re going to be short. You’re going to talk down to people. You’re not going to figure out a way to take your business to the next level. The easiest way to get burned out is by doing a lot of things you shouldn’t be doing. I spent years of my life entering data into Quickbooks. I would get hundreds of orders every week, and at the end of every month, I would go in and reconcile them. It would literally take me hours and hours and hours. If I could go back, I would honestly yell at myself. It was a terrible decision. I could hire someone from the Philippines to do it for $8 an hour. They would probably have been more prepared than I was and done a better job. There were times I would wake up at 5 am to do these Quickbooks. It was a complete waste. I could have woken up rested, ready to go, on to expand my company.
 Hugh: We don’t call those mistakes. We call those learning opportunities.
 Nathan: Exactly. One more thing. When I started Freeeup and had all these clients, I started bookkeeping. The first thing I did was hire someone else to do it right from the very beginning.
 Hugh: Damn. That’s good. All right. Russell, what would you do? You’re not burned out. You probably experienced in your career lots of burned out leaders, didn’t you?
 Russell: I have run into a lot of burned out leaders. I became one because I found myself at the back end of my career working as a tribal administrator. And I had 70 employees. But I didn’t relinquish my development responsibilities. That was burning the candle at both ends there because I didn’t understand delegation. Even though I had other people there, I didn’t understand at that point in time how to hand things off. I found myself in time constraints. Everything was a crisis. I found myself overfunctioning and doing things that would have been better to hand off to other people.
 Nathan: Like what? Could you give us an example?
 Russell: Some examples there would be working on grants and trying to get those ahead in time. Working on budgets and approving other projects. I should have been able to rely on my program directors to get that done, but at that time, I was a bit of a micromanager because I wanted to do what I wanted to see the organization do well. That was a part of a hard education coming through. That was really a baptism by fire. I had to learn to do a lot of things and learn to do a lot of things other people didn’t know how to do. At that point in time, I learned how to teach other people. But the largest number of people I had working for me prior to that was five when I was in the Air Force. A bit of a shift to go from five employees to 70.
 Nathan: Absolutely. That is where a lot of people get frustrated, too, is that teaching side. There are two ways to go about hiring. You hire someone who is really talented and is bringing their own experience to the table to do something that you can’t, or you are hiring someone to come in that may have some kind of background but you are teaching them your system, your way of doing it. A lot of people, especially the first few hires, don’t know how to teach. They don’t know how to give that information to someone else and do it properly and have someone get the same results or even similar because a lot of times it’s worth it if someone can do it 85% of what you can. You want to take it off your plate. A lot of people can’t accomplish that. They get frustrated and think they can’t hire, when a lot of times it comes down to their teaching, how they trained them, how they integrated them, and how they motivated after they taught them. Once you give someone the keys on how to do something, how did you make sure you were getting the most out of them every day because if you did it yourself, you would get the most out of it every day.
 Hugh: There are also things I do okay, but I have people who can do them better than me. Once I can back off of that and accept they are going to do it differently, the responsibility rests on the leader to identify the ending point. What is the outcome? What does it look like specifically? We are there to mentor people. There is a huge difference from micromanaging to mentoring, to empowering people.
 Let’s talk a bit about equipping ourselves as leaders. Suppose we want to free up and got a really good person to do some administrative assistance. The responsibility is on the leader to have a really good plan so that when someone comes in, we can define the quantifiable outcomes. As you are working with leaders who haven’t been successful or are new at having someone else to delegate things to, what kind of advice do you give them as far as being able to quantify the end result and empower anybody, your people or others, to accomplish those goals?
 Nathan: Sure. The first thing you have to understand is that no matter who the person is, you need them more than they need you. They can go out and get another job. You are the one who is investing training, resources, and your own time, which is invaluable. You are the one who is putting it all in. You have to be the one to get out of it. You go into it talking down to someone or being mean or not with a positive attitude, and you will get burned in the end, not them. They will walk away being like, “This boss was terrible. I hate him. I’m going to get a new job.” That’s step one.
 Step two is identifying what you want. What are your goals? What are your expectations? I see so many clients who will give someone an assignment and just walk away and go back to exactly what they were doing without outlining any goals or expectations. The worker, if they are good, in their mind they will look back and go, “I have client A, B, and C, and they liked it this way. I am going to do that.” If that client comes back a week later and gets the assignment and says, “This isn’t at all what I wanted,” then the worker is baffled because they have been doing this the same way the entire time, but no one set their goals and expectations. That is why I encourage our workers to not start anything until that discovery or scope is lined up. Even if the client is too busy or says, “You should know what to do,” that is not acceptable because that just leads to issues at the end. The worker has to step up and make sure that discovery happens so the work gets done.
 Hugh: I want to capture the sound bite. When you don’t have a clear definition of what you want, it leads to issues. We are setting up conflict if we do that, don’t we?
 Nathan: Absolutely. A mess is bound to happen. Yes, there are all-star workers out there who can read the client’s mind and do the job without any instructions, but the majority of the time, there is going to be some kind of issue. It will also save you time and energy. There will be revisions. Even if you are someone who likes revisions, if you just set a discovery and scope up front, it will save you a lot of time. It’s worth it.
 Hugh: Wow. Russell, you want to weigh in on this issue? It’s a big one.
 Russell: Yeah. It creates that accountability, and when the worker becomes involved, they have that accountability. Once it’s clear they understand what it is you want and you send them away, it’s like the Colombo technique when I was auditing businesses in the IRS. This is how you outsmart a lot of $500 an hour attorneys. You walk in and ask questions like a second grader until you are absolutely clear on what it is they are saying. I found that they volunteered more information. They probably thought I was the village idiot asking questions until they got the tax bill from their clients, and it looks like this guy is smarter than he looks. You want to be flexible, but you want the result. You don’t want a lot of wiggle room on that result. But flexibility as far as how to get it. You leverage that talent, and they will approach stuff in ways I would never think of. It works better for them. It doesn’t matter how they get it done as long as they got that standard that is set and they know what’s expected and they deliver, and that is what I am all about: delivering that ned result.
 Hugh: Just for Nathan’s benefit, he is stealing my lines. I am smarter than he looks. That is the one I use often. Last time I used it, somebody said, “That’s a good thing.” Russ, you’re so right.
 What is really annoying to the team members is when the boss does things they are not the expert at. If we started inventorying the things we’re good at but not excellent at, and maybe someone else should be doing it. I am sure you interview people who do it all, and it is hard to convince them that someone could do it better, save them time and money, free up their time. How do you approach that conversation?
 Nathan: I get to that point now where I rarely do anything that isn’t directly involved with something I am really good at. I realized it’s a total waste of time, and it usually ends up backfiring. I usually have to redo it down the line anyway. Even if I put something together makeshift that lasts me a few months. So I usually want to get it right the first time.
 What I tell clients is a story I have with my business partner Connor. We rarely fight; we have an awesome relationship. The biggest fight that we had, the time that things escalated the most, led to the best conversation. We were sitting out on our patio. We had been stepping on each other’s toes, and there was a lot of uncertainty on who was doing what. We found an activity online where we would tell each other what we were good at and what we were bad at. Connor was like, “Nate, you’re a bad writer.” I was like, “Connor, you don’t delegate properly.” We went back and forth on this for a solid hour until we had a list of everything we were good at and everything we were bad at. Can we work together? We noticed fortunately that we had a lot of complementary skills, as we were polar opposites in terms of skillsets, which was why we had such success earlier on. From there, it was fairly easy to divide everything. I am not going to do anything with writing, so Connor, you have the blog, the website. I’m better at talking on the phone, so I handle all phone calls. We were clearly able to divide the line, and as we hired people, we would have them work under us to where it related, where it was relevant.
 What I advise people to do is have an honest conversation with you, your employees, and your business partner to figure out who is good at what, and, I think Russell said this earlier, to identify where the holes are at because usually you don’t get that perfect synergy where everything is covered. You realize you don’t have a bookkeeper on your team or a developer. Those are the next steps.
 Hugh: I can see where people starting out in the first stages of a charity or a business need to do a lot of things. From the very beginning, especially in charities, we have all these people who want to give their time. There is an emotional release of I have to do it to feel worthy when that’s not true. You have a vision. You do what you’re really good at. And you allow other people to perform up to their highest standard and fulfill their passion. If it is worthy work, there are other people who want to join us in that work. We just have to be better at recruiting them and telling people why it’s important and what impact they are going to have in the lives of others. Russ, you might know better than I, but there are something like four million 501(c) somethings with 10s and 6s and those that are government. There is an abundance of charitable organizations in this country. Many of them have a really good mission, and many of them are compromised in that mission because of the kinds of things we are talking about here. The culture is a reflection of the leader, and as John Maxwell says in his Law of the Lid, the organization cannot grow any further than the leader’s ability to let it grow, to lead it. Finding really talented people to work around you is one of those strong secrets.
 If we were all to ask ourselves, “What could we take off our plate if we had someone who worked a certain number of hours?” There are two sides to this. What could we take off our plate, and what additional important thing could we do if we had that kind of assistance? There are two sides to that question. Nathan.
 Nathan: I always recommend starting small. Very few companies, especially nonprofits, will just start off hiring six full-time people and take everything off their plate. It has taken me two years of running Freeeup to get to that point and a few years into my first company as well. But what I did do was hire someone to run my social media page one hour a day. It cost me $7 a day. It took it off my plate. They did a great job in building that. Then I mentioned Quickbooks. Let’s get someone in place once a month to do that. So I get an entire day back at the end of every month. In the beginning of every day, I spend the first hour answering customer and client emails, so let’s hire someone to answer these emails an hour before I wake up so I can get a head start on every day. I started small with those three hires over the course of four to five months, and it freed up my time to invest back into expansion. From there, the business grew. So we just had a good month, and let’s hire a fourth person for four hours a day to do some small tasks. The beginning of the day is a little hectic for me, so it’d be nice if I had someone on there who I could just assign different papers to write or projects to do or contacting clients. I put that person in place, and I got an extra few hours every day, so I invested that into expanding my company. You get the point. That is the correct and proper way to go about it if you are a nonprofit, if you have a limited budget. If you are ahead of that curve and making money, then you can go ahead of that and start hiring people for 20 or 15 hours a week and start taking this off your plate. Have a meeting. Once you get your time back, have a brainstorming session on what you should be doing so you can maximize that extra time. Or if you are a lifestyle business, figure out where you are going to go on your next vacation.
 Hugh: An hour a day is five hours a week. That is 25 hours a month. That is 300 hours a year. If we just outsource something for an hour a day, that is quality of life. Wow. Russ, what are you hearing here?
 Russell: I am hearing that I should get somebody to do my email because the pile is growing. I could do that. I could have somebody do some of the email and some of the posting. I have some things automated. That has been my big push of late is to get some things automated. I have been doing some rework on my website and some other things are in the works. As I get more resources, I am going to get more people involved. It’s a lot of hours, and I don’t mind a lot of hours, but those hours could be spent a little better because I am still doing a lot of small things.
 Hugh: Aren’t we all.
 Nathan: A quick note on email. I have a lot of clients who notice those emails are piling up. It costs you business not to respond to emails. It costs you opportunities. You have to find a way to get on top of your email. That should be step one. Hugh, if you emailed me and I didn’t respond back for a week and a half, I would not be here right now potentially. There are people out there who respond fast. You have to figure out a way to do it. That is just one example. There are other parts of your business like falling behind on taxes and stuff like that that you have to figure out a way to keep up. Sometimes the only way to do that is to hire an assistant for an hour a day.
 Russell: Several times a day, I clean out my email inbox, and I don’t leave it over the weekend. I do get response to it, but the point is that I am cleaning it out, and it’s time that I am spending cleaning it out to make sure I don’t miss anything that I need to gain. It’s that time cleaning it out.
 Hugh: We offer these sessions to nonprofit leaders to offer some best practices and good business tips for charities. Like Russ said, you can’t help but think about yourself. I teach people that we are always working on our skills. Even old guys like me can learn new things. Nate, you brought up some really good stuff. Nate Hirsch is principal at Freeeup.com. As you see, he has a lot of energy and a lot of wisdom for such a young guy. You have done a lot in such a short period of time. Thank you for being here tonight. As we wrap up, I am going to ask you to do a parting thought for people. What is some wisdom you’d like to leave us with, a tip or a closing thought?
 Nathan: When you are hiring, you want to hire people that are passionate and have a great attitude about your company. If you are hiring someone—I don’t care if it’s the smallest project—if it’s one graphic design project, get someone who is emotionally involved. Get someone you can tell actually cares about you and your company. You will get a better result. You will never know when you will use someone again. You also don’t know how it will affect the people around you. If you bring someone in who has a bad attitude, even for a day, even for a very small project, that can have lasting effects on your business that can last months. Make sure you are bringing in high-quality, high-caliber people for every little thing. Just because you have something due, don’t take a shortcut and give it to someone who could ruin your business down the line. That is my word of advice. It’s something I wish I knew upfront. I became addicted—for example, I needed Excel work done, and I would hire someone who had a bad attitude but were very good at building this formula. When they were building these formulas on my computer at my desk, I realized they were interacting with all the other people on my team. And the next week was a terribly unproductive week because everyone had the mentality that Nate would go around and hire any Joe-schmo that he could find that wasn’t passionate about the company. It took me a while to get that back on track. That is a good piece of advice that I wish I had when I was hiring the first time.
 Hugh: That is excellent advice. Everything you said in this interview has been spot-on with what Russell and I teach. We have reframed the word “consultant” to “Wayfinder,” and we help people find the way to better leadership. Nathan Hirsch of Freeeup, thank you for spending your hour with us tonight.
 Nathan: Yeah, thanks for having me. Don’t forget to check out Freeeup.com. Right at the top, you can book an appointment with me and I can talk to you about your business. If you mention Hugh’s name, you get a dollar off your first worker forever. It’s free to sign up with no monthly fees.
 Hugh: My name is worth a dollar.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8433ad4e-b329-11eb-9f0f-87c8f13c7d7f/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hiring Remote Workers to Optimize Each Day</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Nathan Hirsch is the CEO of FreeeUp.com and the COO of Portlight. Nate has been an entrepreneur in the eCommerce industry since 2009 and has grown into a leading expert in the field with experience managing multi-million dollar businesses. He has extensive knowledge in creating business systems and processes, personnel management, hiring remote workers, the Amazon Marketplace, and advanced sales tactics. He is passionate about sharing his knowledge with others and has been featured on leading industry podcasts, webinars, and blogs.
 Nate is determined to build FreeeUp into the top hands-on platform for hiring remote workers where thousands of businesses and remote workers are connected. If you're interested in connecting with Nate, shoot him an email at Nathan@FreeeUp.com.
 The Transcript
 NPC Interview with Nathan Hirsch – 6/13/17
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, everyone. This is the Nonprofit Chat. Tonight’s guest is Nathan Hirsch. I just met Nathan a month ago. I was smart enough to recognize this guy had talent, so I am giving myself credit for that. I posted a little information about you, and I’d prefer for guests to give us a synopsis of what brings you to this discipline that you do so well. I’d like to say your company is called Freeeup.com, and it’s an outsourcing company. The reason I wanted you on this series is because I see so many people who are working at the leadership level that are overfunctioning and doing way too much. We are going to talk about how to leverage time by putting in part-time employees. Nathan, speak a little bit about your journey and why you are so good at what you offer.
 Nathan Hirsch: It’s funny. When I first talked to you, I was like, “My mom owns a nonprofit.” I’d seen her journey from being a one-woman show to finally retiring and upgrading the location she was at, having a huge staff, taking more and more off her plate. I got that business, entrepreneurial, delegating mentality from a very young age.
 When I was in college, I started a textbook business trying to cut off the school bookstore because I was mad at them for ripping me off and giving me pennies on the dollar when I thought I could get more. Before I knew it, I had lined my college dorm room buying people’s books. That led me to Amazon.com because you don’t sell books for very long without learning about Amazon. Before I knew it, I was running this multi-million-dollar drop-shipping business on Amazon, working with all these different vendors and suppliers, selling stuff out of my college dorm room. It was just me doing everything, from filling orders to answering customer emails. I was driving myself crazy. I was going to college at the same time, trying to have good grades, trying to balance a girlfriend and a million other things that happen while you are at school. I remember going to my accountant one day, and he was like, “So, when are you hiring your first employee?” I was like, “Why would I do that? I don’t want to give my money to someone else. I really enjoy what I’m doing. This is fun. I am going to work seven days a week.” He just laughed in my face.
 After that meeting, I quickly got to hiring. I opened up an office and moved stuff around. I ended up getting rid of that and making my company remote. I always ran into hiring dilemmas because I would make really good hires, things like Connor, who was my business partner for a long time. But then I would make bad hires, who cost me time and money and set me back. Although I got better at hiring, the amount of applicants got greater and greater because I was hiring for all these different things. Yes, I perfected this hiring process, but then I found myself in the interview room six hours a day interviewing people, going through multiple rounds and resumes, only to find that some of them, even though I’d vetted them properly, still didn’t work out and cost me money. So I got really frustrated at that and thought there had to be a better way. There had to be a company where I could tell them what I wanted—if I needed a graphic designer, I don’t want to wait three weeks to get one by vetting through fifty applicants. This is what I need, and I could get them by the end of the day.
 This is how I came up with the idea of Freeeup, where instead of the marketplace being a free-for-all, it is very organized. People apply to get into the marketplace, they are heavily vetted, we make sure they have a good attitude and communication, and we make them available to clients so they can get access to talent quickly, no matter what it is.
 Hugh: I love it. Our co-host, Russell Dennis, has joined us. Russell, say hello to Nathan.
 Russell Dennis: Good afternoon. Good to meet you, Nathan. I love the concept of Freeeup and pre-vetting virtual assistants because they are practically everywhere. I have just had that one follow me on my Twitter feed who looks like they are doing the same thing or something similar. These agencies are starting to turn up, but I haven’t seen anything quite like what you are doing before.
 Nathan: Thank you. Great to meet you as well. You’re right. There are so many different agencies and marketplaces. I have hired from all of them. I kind of took what I liked and what I hated and put together a concept that really works for business owners. The downside of agencies is you never know who is doing the work. You don’t get that one-on-one touch. A lot of times they switch people behind the scenes and you don’t know about it, so the quality goes up and down. The problem with the marketplace is the time and effort it takes to get a good freelancer, and if you invest the training and they decide to quit, there is no one held responsible for that, and you have to start right over. With Freeeup, we have our no-turnover guarantee, where we cover replacement training costs if anyone ever quits. That was the concept behind it. It has been a lot of fun so far.
 Hugh: Having run multiple businesses and church programs and non-profit programs, hiring people is not a skillset that I had. I have it now. Previously, I had a lot of bad hires. You have come at this very early in your life. You have developed this level of expertise. Russell has worked inside a non-profit for 11 years. He also worked for the IRS, so he had to visit a lot of nonprofits, I guess. This whole thing of accomplishing our mission is very elusive, and we are so passionate about it that we just jump in and forget that in this realm of the charity, there are people who will step up as community leaders and work with us. They will say, “I want to help.” There are some tasks that we need to have somebody who is paid, that regular work ethic that someone will do what we have assigned them. There is an exchange of value for pay. We can do that in a charity, actually delegating some things. Part of what we teach at SynerVision about leadership is learning to take things off of your plate. I guess the piece that you just talked about is having the confidence that the person is going to be capable of accomplishing it. We invite people who have businesses and expertise. We are talking about Freeeup, which is Nathan’s business. The people that referred Nathan to me were our friends in Phoenix who do the background checks, former military intelligence people. If they said he is clean, it’s good.
 Nathan, we have to get over this fear of having somebody else do the work. From a leader’s perspective, I have noticed you have a team around you that performs at a pretty high standard. Speak from your own personal perspective. How were you able to make the transition to getting things off of your plate, delegating them?
 Nathan: Sure. Whenever you talk about delegating, you have to be in the mindset that the business has to work for you. You can’t work for the business. If you find yourself trying to catch up and clearing out customer emails and calling everyone back and doing this Excel project and building the website, the business isn’t working for you; you are working for the business. You have to get out of that mentality. You have to get into the mentality that you are a delegator as the owner of the company. There should be a specific thing, or a few things if you are very talented, that you are really good at, that your core competency can really help you excel at. You need to identify those things. If you are good at sales, 80% of your time should be sales. If you are customer service, you should be building customer service programs. If you are a website developer, you should be constantly upgrading your website, and other people should be doing those other things.
 It’s really important that you get into the mentality that the beginning of every day is getting your team organized before you get yourself going. The first thing I do every day is I have a list of people and prioritize them. I go to them one by one, following up with what they are doing, making sure they are on the right track, making sure I answer any of their questions to get them to the next level because if they are sitting there waiting, that is incredibly unproductive. I am not going to start on my project because I get them going.
 On top of that, I make sure things are constantly running at full speed, whether it’s someone working at night or someone working on the weekends. Even when I am on vacation, the business is not going to stop. My whole thing as a business owner is to get into the mentality that I have to get this train running. It takes a lot of organization upfront to build that team, which we will talk about, but the end goal is to have a team that never stops, that keeps moving forward whether you are there or not, and that you are contributing value when you are there to keep them moving further and further along.
 Hugh: We think, and I’m saying we because I am not innocent of any of this, we are essential to the work of the organization when in fact, we don’t need to be essential. We are the cheerleaders; we are the visionaries. It’s the people we bring on board that actually perform the duties that are important to the success of the organization. That thing you just talked about is a paradigm shift. Did you have to make a paradigm shift to make a mental flip that you were going to learn to delegate? Or did that come easily to you?
 Nathan: I came easier to me than it did to my business partner Connor. I remember when I first started delegating after that meeting with the accountant, it becomes addicting. I am a business owner. I am passionate about what I do. I like getting things done. All of a sudden, when I added a few people, I realized I was getting four times the amount of work done, and not only that, but they were doing the work better than I could even do it. They were talents that I didn’t have. When I realized that, then it became easy. You almost become lazy as a business owner because it’s like, “Yeah, I could spend the next three hours doing Quickbooks, or I could pay someone $40 to do it for me.” You just start passing stuff off your plate. You get a lot more done, which leads to more revenue and expanding your company, which leads to hiring more people. It is a really great circle once you get those wheels churning.
 But I remember my business partner Connor managing the company one day when I was on vacation, and he was literally doing everything. Every single tracking email at my Amazon business, he was responding to. When I came back from vacation, I sat him down and said, “You’re stuck. If this is how you want to do business, you are never moving forward. You can’t be my business partner. You are just going to be in this spot forever. There is no way to be on top of your business if you are doing every little thing. You have to take stuff off of your plate. You have to get over that fear of letting go. It’s not until you actually do that that you can accomplish something as an entrepreneur. No matter how big or small your business is, you are going to hit a ceiling, a road block. Right now, if you get sick for two weeks—I had shoulder surgery a month ago. Nothing stopped, things accelerated. I got my team motivated to work because I wasn’t there, and a lot of stuff got done while I was out. You have to look yourself in the eye and figure out if that is going to happen in your business while you are out.
 Hugh: David James Dunworth says, “The real measure of a successful leader is that the operation operates as or more effectively and smoothly when the boss is not there. I call the job of establishing systems and processes to get that point is owner-proofing.” That is getting out of the way, isn’t it. Owner-proofing. We have launched some questions during the interview. You sent me some good questions, and we are sharing them out there on social media. The first one: What would you do if you had two extra hours each day? Russell, what would you do if you had extra time every day?
 Russell: Two extra hours. I would probably be outside walking. Definitely would be outside. It’s not a cloud in sight. It’s about 82 degrees here. That is what I would be doing. I took a break today to walk outside and get around. I love the fresh air. I made a decision to get in a really good condition this spring. I made major changes to my diet. From my last doctor’s appointment about five weeks ago, I am down 27.5 pounds. And I am sleeping better.
 Hugh: Wow. I was with a client today, and they had a management team of about 14 people. They were talking about one of the aspects of one of the department’s work, and they were streamlining and automating. They estimated it would save 3.5 hours a day of the employees, which totally revamped how they were going to assign duties in that department, which is huge. They are installing some automation, which frees up people with a higher level of skill from doing something routine to utilize that skill. Nathan, what would you do with two extra hours if you had them?
 Nathan: I think that’s the difference between running a lifestyle business and trying to get back toward that lifestyle versus a workaholic. For me, when I am freeing up time, which I am constantly doing because I get more and more on my plate, I am just freeing up my time to focus on some other part of my business. I like working ten hours a day, and I am doing that no matter what. If I free up three hours, I may take an extra day off here and there, but I am reinvesting it back in the company. That content video that I didn’t have time to make, now I have time for it. That PR company that I never called back, let’s give them a phone call. For me, I am freeing up time to get more time in my business that focuses on sales, marketing, and expansion. If I am not doing something that focuses on sales, marketing, and expansion, my business is stalling. I am not moving forward as fast as I can. I owe it to the other people on my team to do that. We have all been around that boss where all they do all day is walk around and look over your shoulder. My mentality is if you are doing that, you are not doing what you are supposed to do as a leader. You are not progressing anything forward. You are not making a process better. You are not fixing anything for the future. And you are definitely not growing and expanding your company. Yes, there is a time and place to double-check work and make sure everything is going well, but the goal should be to free up your time for anything that involves expansion.
 Hugh: Why do you think that it’s so hard for people to do that?
 Nathan: Expanding is hard. Get to a point in your company that you are comfortable. You are making money for the first time. You have a stable client base. Anything past that is unknown territory. What happens if you invest in advertising here? What happens if you do 20 phone calls for lead generation and you get rejected 20 times? People don’t want to do what it takes to get to that next level of your business. You eventually stall out. There are people who are very comfortable running a $1 million company or a $4 million company instead of being like, “Hey, every year, I want to grow non-stop. Yes, I am setting goals and guidelines, but if I didn’t get bigger from year to year, I did something wrong that year. I am too involved, or I made a bad decision, or I wasn’t focused on expansion.” A lot of it is fear. Fear is incredibly motivating or unmotivating when it comes to people. Along with delegation, it is something you need to let go of. As a business owner, you need to figure out how to take your business to the next level, whether it is taking that online mastermind class or reading a new book or trial and error, which I am a huge fan of. Figure out a way to free up your time to take the business to the next level.
 Hugh: I’d like to point out that expansion becomes easier after you get older and your metabolism slows down. Not what you were talking about, I don’t think.
 Russ, do you want to piggyback on what he just said? That is so aligned with our philosophy at SynerVision.
 Russell: It very much is. With that extra time for me, I was thinking I needed to take better care of myself so I can do things. Over the course of the day, if I am not learning something or out here reaching out to people or trying to grow that business, then I am in a place where I need to look at getting some of the smaller things off my plate. I have been leveraging technology. I have some people I work with here in my office who are here to help me do some things. I have been able to get more traction by connecting with other people who can help me along in my process, and that is true for anybody. The people who are clients of mine, I actually help them do that. What you are talking about is filling gaps. Those don’t necessarily have to be weaknesses. It could just be things we simply don’t want to do or are not the best use of our time for what we need to do. Nathan hit that on the head: What am I best at, and what are the things only I can do? Those are the things I try to attend to, and I try to hand other things off and find other ways to get them done.
 Hugh: So true. Once we can hand off things, we can focus on what we are supposed to be doing and what we do best. Really, Nathan you talked about what kind of business, a lifestyle business. When we are in business, we need to stop and look at our life plan and make sure the business is fulfilling our life. You are getting ready to go to Mexico in a couple of days. Sounds like you got your act together, boy.
 Nathan: Yeah, I mean I have assistants who monitor my Skype and my email almost 24 hours a day. It took a lot of time and training and investing. There will always be some frustration. You hire four people, and maybe one of them doesn’t work out. They can’t be a reason to give up. You have to learn from those experiences, come up with better systems, come up with better processes, and figure out a way to do it because your competitors are going to do it. At some point, they are going to figure out how to automate it, how to hire the right people, how to make it so their business is getting bigger while you sleep. You have to figure out a way to do that.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I didn’t mean to call you “boy.” I am three times your age, so the perspective…
 Nathan: You can call me “boy” then.
 Hugh: That’s right. And you’re not catching up either.
 The next question that we posted out there, and I did talk about the real time research that people tell me they are struggling with leadership and burnout, the Meyer Foundation did a research project a few years ago and found that the burnout rate for nonprofit executives is 45%. 75% of executives are looking at the door as a way out. We feel like we are trapped and have to do too much. Let’s flip that coin. We are focusing on burnout, we don’t have enough money or time, nobody volunteers. Let’s flip it over. If we weren’t burned out, what would that mean? What could we accomplish?
 Nathan: If you’re not resting, if you are burned out on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis, you are not going to have the productivity that you can. You won’t hit your potential. You’re not going to motivate the people around you. You’re going to be short. You’re going to talk down to people. You’re not going to figure out a way to take your business to the next level. The easiest way to get burned out is by doing a lot of things you shouldn’t be doing. I spent years of my life entering data into Quickbooks. I would get hundreds of orders every week, and at the end of every month, I would go in and reconcile them. It would literally take me hours and hours and hours. If I could go back, I would honestly yell at myself. It was a terrible decision. I could hire someone from the Philippines to do it for $8 an hour. They would probably have been more prepared than I was and done a better job. There were times I would wake up at 5 am to do these Quickbooks. It was a complete waste. I could have woken up rested, ready to go, on to expand my company.
 Hugh: We don’t call those mistakes. We call those learning opportunities.
 Nathan: Exactly. One more thing. When I started Freeeup and had all these clients, I started bookkeeping. The first thing I did was hire someone else to do it right from the very beginning.
 Hugh: Damn. That’s good. All right. Russell, what would you do? You’re not burned out. You probably experienced in your career lots of burned out leaders, didn’t you?
 Russell: I have run into a lot of burned out leaders. I became one because I found myself at the back end of my career working as a tribal administrator. And I had 70 employees. But I didn’t relinquish my development responsibilities. That was burning the candle at both ends there because I didn’t understand delegation. Even though I had other people there, I didn’t understand at that point in time how to hand things off. I found myself in time constraints. Everything was a crisis. I found myself overfunctioning and doing things that would have been better to hand off to other people.
 Nathan: Like what? Could you give us an example?
 Russell: Some examples there would be working on grants and trying to get those ahead in time. Working on budgets and approving other projects. I should have been able to rely on my program directors to get that done, but at that time, I was a bit of a micromanager because I wanted to do what I wanted to see the organization do well. That was a part of a hard education coming through. That was really a baptism by fire. I had to learn to do a lot of things and learn to do a lot of things other people didn’t know how to do. At that point in time, I learned how to teach other people. But the largest number of people I had working for me prior to that was five when I was in the Air Force. A bit of a shift to go from five employees to 70.
 Nathan: Absolutely. That is where a lot of people get frustrated, too, is that teaching side. There are two ways to go about hiring. You hire someone who is really talented and is bringing their own experience to the table to do something that you can’t, or you are hiring someone to come in that may have some kind of background but you are teaching them your system, your way of doing it. A lot of people, especially the first few hires, don’t know how to teach. They don’t know how to give that information to someone else and do it properly and have someone get the same results or even similar because a lot of times it’s worth it if someone can do it 85% of what you can. You want to take it off your plate. A lot of people can’t accomplish that. They get frustrated and think they can’t hire, when a lot of times it comes down to their teaching, how they trained them, how they integrated them, and how they motivated after they taught them. Once you give someone the keys on how to do something, how did you make sure you were getting the most out of them every day because if you did it yourself, you would get the most out of it every day.
 Hugh: There are also things I do okay, but I have people who can do them better than me. Once I can back off of that and accept they are going to do it differently, the responsibility rests on the leader to identify the ending point. What is the outcome? What does it look like specifically? We are there to mentor people. There is a huge difference from micromanaging to mentoring, to empowering people.
 Let’s talk a bit about equipping ourselves as leaders. Suppose we want to free up and got a really good person to do some administrative assistance. The responsibility is on the leader to have a really good plan so that when someone comes in, we can define the quantifiable outcomes. As you are working with leaders who haven’t been successful or are new at having someone else to delegate things to, what kind of advice do you give them as far as being able to quantify the end result and empower anybody, your people or others, to accomplish those goals?
 Nathan: Sure. The first thing you have to understand is that no matter who the person is, you need them more than they need you. They can go out and get another job. You are the one who is investing training, resources, and your own time, which is invaluable. You are the one who is putting it all in. You have to be the one to get out of it. You go into it talking down to someone or being mean or not with a positive attitude, and you will get burned in the end, not them. They will walk away being like, “This boss was terrible. I hate him. I’m going to get a new job.” That’s step one.
 Step two is identifying what you want. What are your goals? What are your expectations? I see so many clients who will give someone an assignment and just walk away and go back to exactly what they were doing without outlining any goals or expectations. The worker, if they are good, in their mind they will look back and go, “I have client A, B, and C, and they liked it this way. I am going to do that.” If that client comes back a week later and gets the assignment and says, “This isn’t at all what I wanted,” then the worker is baffled because they have been doing this the same way the entire time, but no one set their goals and expectations. That is why I encourage our workers to not start anything until that discovery or scope is lined up. Even if the client is too busy or says, “You should know what to do,” that is not acceptable because that just leads to issues at the end. The worker has to step up and make sure that discovery happens so the work gets done.
 Hugh: I want to capture the sound bite. When you don’t have a clear definition of what you want, it leads to issues. We are setting up conflict if we do that, don’t we?
 Nathan: Absolutely. A mess is bound to happen. Yes, there are all-star workers out there who can read the client’s mind and do the job without any instructions, but the majority of the time, there is going to be some kind of issue. It will also save you time and energy. There will be revisions. Even if you are someone who likes revisions, if you just set a discovery and scope up front, it will save you a lot of time. It’s worth it.
 Hugh: Wow. Russell, you want to weigh in on this issue? It’s a big one.
 Russell: Yeah. It creates that accountability, and when the worker becomes involved, they have that accountability. Once it’s clear they understand what it is you want and you send them away, it’s like the Colombo technique when I was auditing businesses in the IRS. This is how you outsmart a lot of $500 an hour attorneys. You walk in and ask questions like a second grader until you are absolutely clear on what it is they are saying. I found that they volunteered more information. They probably thought I was the village idiot asking questions until they got the tax bill from their clients, and it looks like this guy is smarter than he looks. You want to be flexible, but you want the result. You don’t want a lot of wiggle room on that result. But flexibility as far as how to get it. You leverage that talent, and they will approach stuff in ways I would never think of. It works better for them. It doesn’t matter how they get it done as long as they got that standard that is set and they know what’s expected and they deliver, and that is what I am all about: delivering that ned result.
 Hugh: Just for Nathan’s benefit, he is stealing my lines. I am smarter than he looks. That is the one I use often. Last time I used it, somebody said, “That’s a good thing.” Russ, you’re so right.
 What is really annoying to the team members is when the boss does things they are not the expert at. If we started inventorying the things we’re good at but not excellent at, and maybe someone else should be doing it. I am sure you interview people who do it all, and it is hard to convince them that someone could do it better, save them time and money, free up their time. How do you approach that conversation?
 Nathan: I get to that point now where I rarely do anything that isn’t directly involved with something I am really good at. I realized it’s a total waste of time, and it usually ends up backfiring. I usually have to redo it down the line anyway. Even if I put something together makeshift that lasts me a few months. So I usually want to get it right the first time.
 What I tell clients is a story I have with my business partner Connor. We rarely fight; we have an awesome relationship. The biggest fight that we had, the time that things escalated the most, led to the best conversation. We were sitting out on our patio. We had been stepping on each other’s toes, and there was a lot of uncertainty on who was doing what. We found an activity online where we would tell each other what we were good at and what we were bad at. Connor was like, “Nate, you’re a bad writer.” I was like, “Connor, you don’t delegate properly.” We went back and forth on this for a solid hour until we had a list of everything we were good at and everything we were bad at. Can we work together? We noticed fortunately that we had a lot of complementary skills, as we were polar opposites in terms of skillsets, which was why we had such success earlier on. From there, it was fairly easy to divide everything. I am not going to do anything with writing, so Connor, you have the blog, the website. I’m better at talking on the phone, so I handle all phone calls. We were clearly able to divide the line, and as we hired people, we would have them work under us to where it related, where it was relevant.
 What I advise people to do is have an honest conversation with you, your employees, and your business partner to figure out who is good at what, and, I think Russell said this earlier, to identify where the holes are at because usually you don’t get that perfect synergy where everything is covered. You realize you don’t have a bookkeeper on your team or a developer. Those are the next steps.
 Hugh: I can see where people starting out in the first stages of a charity or a business need to do a lot of things. From the very beginning, especially in charities, we have all these people who want to give their time. There is an emotional release of I have to do it to feel worthy when that’s not true. You have a vision. You do what you’re really good at. And you allow other people to perform up to their highest standard and fulfill their passion. If it is worthy work, there are other people who want to join us in that work. We just have to be better at recruiting them and telling people why it’s important and what impact they are going to have in the lives of others. Russ, you might know better than I, but there are something like four million 501(c) somethings with 10s and 6s and those that are government. There is an abundance of charitable organizations in this country. Many of them have a really good mission, and many of them are compromised in that mission because of the kinds of things we are talking about here. The culture is a reflection of the leader, and as John Maxwell says in his Law of the Lid, the organization cannot grow any further than the leader’s ability to let it grow, to lead it. Finding really talented people to work around you is one of those strong secrets.
 If we were all to ask ourselves, “What could we take off our plate if we had someone who worked a certain number of hours?” There are two sides to this. What could we take off our plate, and what additional important thing could we do if we had that kind of assistance? There are two sides to that question. Nathan.
 Nathan: I always recommend starting small. Very few companies, especially nonprofits, will just start off hiring six full-time people and take everything off their plate. It has taken me two years of running Freeeup to get to that point and a few years into my first company as well. But what I did do was hire someone to run my social media page one hour a day. It cost me $7 a day. It took it off my plate. They did a great job in building that. Then I mentioned Quickbooks. Let’s get someone in place once a month to do that. So I get an entire day back at the end of every month. In the beginning of every day, I spend the first hour answering customer and client emails, so let’s hire someone to answer these emails an hour before I wake up so I can get a head start on every day. I started small with those three hires over the course of four to five months, and it freed up my time to invest back into expansion. From there, the business grew. So we just had a good month, and let’s hire a fourth person for four hours a day to do some small tasks. The beginning of the day is a little hectic for me, so it’d be nice if I had someone on there who I could just assign different papers to write or projects to do or contacting clients. I put that person in place, and I got an extra few hours every day, so I invested that into expanding my company. You get the point. That is the correct and proper way to go about it if you are a nonprofit, if you have a limited budget. If you are ahead of that curve and making money, then you can go ahead of that and start hiring people for 20 or 15 hours a week and start taking this off your plate. Have a meeting. Once you get your time back, have a brainstorming session on what you should be doing so you can maximize that extra time. Or if you are a lifestyle business, figure out where you are going to go on your next vacation.
 Hugh: An hour a day is five hours a week. That is 25 hours a month. That is 300 hours a year. If we just outsource something for an hour a day, that is quality of life. Wow. Russ, what are you hearing here?
 Russell: I am hearing that I should get somebody to do my email because the pile is growing. I could do that. I could have somebody do some of the email and some of the posting. I have some things automated. That has been my big push of late is to get some things automated. I have been doing some rework on my website and some other things are in the works. As I get more resources, I am going to get more people involved. It’s a lot of hours, and I don’t mind a lot of hours, but those hours could be spent a little better because I am still doing a lot of small things.
 Hugh: Aren’t we all.
 Nathan: A quick note on email. I have a lot of clients who notice those emails are piling up. It costs you business not to respond to emails. It costs you opportunities. You have to find a way to get on top of your email. That should be step one. Hugh, if you emailed me and I didn’t respond back for a week and a half, I would not be here right now potentially. There are people out there who respond fast. You have to figure out a way to do it. That is just one example. There are other parts of your business like falling behind on taxes and stuff like that that you have to figure out a way to keep up. Sometimes the only way to do that is to hire an assistant for an hour a day.
 Russell: Several times a day, I clean out my email inbox, and I don’t leave it over the weekend. I do get response to it, but the point is that I am cleaning it out, and it’s time that I am spending cleaning it out to make sure I don’t miss anything that I need to gain. It’s that time cleaning it out.
 Hugh: We offer these sessions to nonprofit leaders to offer some best practices and good business tips for charities. Like Russ said, you can’t help but think about yourself. I teach people that we are always working on our skills. Even old guys like me can learn new things. Nate, you brought up some really good stuff. Nate Hirsch is principal at Freeeup.com. As you see, he has a lot of energy and a lot of wisdom for such a young guy. You have done a lot in such a short period of time. Thank you for being here tonight. As we wrap up, I am going to ask you to do a parting thought for people. What is some wisdom you’d like to leave us with, a tip or a closing thought?
 Nathan: When you are hiring, you want to hire people that are passionate and have a great attitude about your company. If you are hiring someone—I don’t care if it’s the smallest project—if it’s one graphic design project, get someone who is emotionally involved. Get someone you can tell actually cares about you and your company. You will get a better result. You will never know when you will use someone again. You also don’t know how it will affect the people around you. If you bring someone in who has a bad attitude, even for a day, even for a very small project, that can have lasting effects on your business that can last months. Make sure you are bringing in high-quality, high-caliber people for every little thing. Just because you have something due, don’t take a shortcut and give it to someone who could ruin your business down the line. That is my word of advice. It’s something I wish I knew upfront. I became addicted—for example, I needed Excel work done, and I would hire someone who had a bad attitude but were very good at building this formula. When they were building these formulas on my computer at my desk, I realized they were interacting with all the other people on my team. And the next week was a terribly unproductive week because everyone had the mentality that Nate would go around and hire any Joe-schmo that he could find that wasn’t passionate about the company. It took me a while to get that back on track. That is a good piece of advice that I wish I had when I was hiring the first time.
 Hugh: That is excellent advice. Everything you said in this interview has been spot-on with what Russell and I teach. We have reframed the word “consultant” to “Wayfinder,” and we help people find the way to better leadership. Nathan Hirsch of Freeeup, thank you for spending your hour with us tonight.
 Nathan: Yeah, thanks for having me. Don’t forget to check out Freeeup.com. Right at the top, you can book an appointment with me and I can talk to you about your business. If you mention Hugh’s name, you get a dollar off your first worker forever. It’s free to sign up with no monthly fees.
 Hugh: My name is worth a dollar.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Nathan Hirsch</strong> is the CEO of FreeeUp.com and the COO of Portlight. Nate has been an entrepreneur in the eCommerce industry since 2009 and has grown into a leading expert in the field with experience managing multi-million dollar businesses. He has extensive knowledge in creating business systems and processes, personnel management, hiring remote workers, the Amazon Marketplace, and advanced sales tactics. He is passionate about sharing his knowledge with others and has been featured on leading industry podcasts, webinars, and blogs.</p> <p>Nate is determined to build FreeeUp into the top hands-on platform for hiring remote workers where thousands of businesses and remote workers are connected. If you're interested in connecting with Nate, shoot him an email at <a href="mailto:Nathan@FreeeUp.com">Nathan@FreeeUp.com</a>.</p> <p><strong>The Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>NPC Interview with Nathan Hirsch – 6/13/17</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, everyone. This is the Nonprofit Chat. Tonight’s guest is Nathan Hirsch. I just met Nathan a month ago. I was smart enough to recognize this guy had talent, so I am giving myself credit for that. I posted a little information about you, and I’d prefer for guests to give us a synopsis of what brings you to this discipline that you do so well. I’d like to say your company is called Freeeup.com, and it’s an outsourcing company. The reason I wanted you on this series is because I see so many people who are working at the leadership level that are overfunctioning and doing way too much. We are going to talk about how to leverage time by putting in part-time employees. Nathan, speak a little bit about your journey and why you are so good at what you offer.</p> <p><strong>Nathan Hirsch:</strong> It’s funny. When I first talked to you, I was like, “My mom owns a nonprofit.” I’d seen her journey from being a one-woman show to finally retiring and upgrading the location she was at, having a huge staff, taking more and more off her plate. I got that business, entrepreneurial, delegating mentality from a very young age.</p> <p>When I was in college, I started a textbook business trying to cut off the school bookstore because I was mad at them for ripping me off and giving me pennies on the dollar when I thought I could get more. Before I knew it, I had lined my college dorm room buying people’s books. That led me to Amazon.com because you don’t sell books for very long without learning about Amazon. Before I knew it, I was running this multi-million-dollar drop-shipping business on Amazon, working with all these different vendors and suppliers, selling stuff out of my college dorm room. It was just me doing everything, from filling orders to answering customer emails. I was driving myself crazy. I was going to college at the same time, trying to have good grades, trying to balance a girlfriend and a million other things that happen while you are at school. I remember going to my accountant one day, and he was like, “So, when are you hiring your first employee?” I was like, “Why would I do that? I don’t want to give my money to someone else. I really enjoy what I’m doing. This is fun. I am going to work seven days a week.” He just laughed in my face.</p> <p>After that meeting, I quickly got to hiring. I opened up an office and moved stuff around. I ended up getting rid of that and making my company remote. I always ran into hiring dilemmas because I would make really good hires, things like Connor, who was my business partner for a long time. But then I would make bad hires, who cost me time and money and set me back. Although I got better at hiring, the amount of applicants got greater and greater because I was hiring for all these different things. Yes, I perfected this hiring process, but then I found myself in the interview room six hours a day interviewing people, going through multiple rounds and resumes, only to find that some of them, even though I’d vetted them properly, still didn’t work out and cost me money. So I got really frustrated at that and thought there had to be a better way. There had to be a company where I could tell them what I wanted—if I needed a graphic designer, I don’t want to wait three weeks to get one by vetting through fifty applicants. This is what I need, and I could get them by the end of the day.</p> <p>This is how I came up with the idea of Freeeup, where instead of the marketplace being a free-for-all, it is very organized. People apply to get into the marketplace, they are heavily vetted, we make sure they have a good attitude and communication, and we make them available to clients so they can get access to talent quickly, no matter what it is.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I love it. Our co-host, Russell Dennis, has joined us. Russell, say hello to Nathan.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> Good afternoon. Good to meet you, Nathan. I love the concept of Freeeup and pre-vetting virtual assistants because they are practically everywhere. I have just had that one follow me on my Twitter feed who looks like they are doing the same thing or something similar. These agencies are starting to turn up, but I haven’t seen anything quite like what you are doing before.</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> Thank you. Great to meet you as well. You’re right. There are so many different agencies and marketplaces. I have hired from all of them. I kind of took what I liked and what I hated and put together a concept that really works for business owners. The downside of agencies is you never know who is doing the work. You don’t get that one-on-one touch. A lot of times they switch people behind the scenes and you don’t know about it, so the quality goes up and down. The problem with the marketplace is the time and effort it takes to get a good freelancer, and if you invest the training and they decide to quit, there is no one held responsible for that, and you have to start right over. With Freeeup, we have our no-turnover guarantee, where we cover replacement training costs if anyone ever quits. That was the concept behind it. It has been a lot of fun so far.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Having run multiple businesses and church programs and non-profit programs, hiring people is not a skillset that I had. I have it now. Previously, I had a lot of bad hires. You have come at this very early in your life. You have developed this level of expertise. Russell has worked inside a non-profit for 11 years. He also worked for the IRS, so he had to visit a lot of nonprofits, I guess. This whole thing of accomplishing our mission is very elusive, and we are so passionate about it that we just jump in and forget that in this realm of the charity, there are people who will step up as community leaders and work with us. They will say, “I want to help.” There are some tasks that we need to have somebody who is paid, that regular work ethic that someone will do what we have assigned them. There is an exchange of value for pay. We can do that in a charity, actually delegating some things. Part of what we teach at SynerVision about leadership is learning to take things off of your plate. I guess the piece that you just talked about is having the confidence that the person is going to be capable of accomplishing it. We invite people who have businesses and expertise. We are talking about Freeeup, which is Nathan’s business. The people that referred Nathan to me were our friends in Phoenix who do the background checks, former military intelligence people. If they said he is clean, it’s good.</p> <p>Nathan, we have to get over this fear of having somebody else do the work. From a leader’s perspective, I have noticed you have a team around you that performs at a pretty high standard. Speak from your own personal perspective. How were you able to make the transition to getting things off of your plate, delegating them?</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> Sure. Whenever you talk about delegating, you have to be in the mindset that the business has to work for you. You can’t work for the business. If you find yourself trying to catch up and clearing out customer emails and calling everyone back and doing this Excel project and building the website, the business isn’t working for you; you are working for the business. You have to get out of that mentality. You have to get into the mentality that you are a delegator as the owner of the company. There should be a specific thing, or a few things if you are very talented, that you are really good at, that your core competency can really help you excel at. You need to identify those things. If you are good at sales, 80% of your time should be sales. If you are customer service, you should be building customer service programs. If you are a website developer, you should be constantly upgrading your website, and other people should be doing those other things.</p> <p>It’s really important that you get into the mentality that the beginning of every day is getting your team organized before you get yourself going. The first thing I do every day is I have a list of people and prioritize them. I go to them one by one, following up with what they are doing, making sure they are on the right track, making sure I answer any of their questions to get them to the next level because if they are sitting there waiting, that is incredibly unproductive. I am not going to start on my project because I get them going.</p> <p>On top of that, I make sure things are constantly running at full speed, whether it’s someone working at night or someone working on the weekends. Even when I am on vacation, the business is not going to stop. My whole thing as a business owner is to get into the mentality that I have to get this train running. It takes a lot of organization upfront to build that team, which we will talk about, but the end goal is to have a team that never stops, that keeps moving forward whether you are there or not, and that you are contributing value when you are there to keep them moving further and further along.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We think, and I’m saying we because I am not innocent of any of this, we are essential to the work of the organization when in fact, we don’t need to be essential. We are the cheerleaders; we are the visionaries. It’s the people we bring on board that actually perform the duties that are important to the success of the organization. That thing you just talked about is a paradigm shift. Did you have to make a paradigm shift to make a mental flip that you were going to learn to delegate? Or did that come easily to you?</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> I came easier to me than it did to my business partner Connor. I remember when I first started delegating after that meeting with the accountant, it becomes addicting. I am a business owner. I am passionate about what I do. I like getting things done. All of a sudden, when I added a few people, I realized I was getting four times the amount of work done, and not only that, but they were doing the work better than I could even do it. They were talents that I didn’t have. When I realized that, then it became easy. You almost become lazy as a business owner because it’s like, “Yeah, I could spend the next three hours doing Quickbooks, or I could pay someone $40 to do it for me.” You just start passing stuff off your plate. You get a lot more done, which leads to more revenue and expanding your company, which leads to hiring more people. It is a really great circle once you get those wheels churning.</p> <p>But I remember my business partner Connor managing the company one day when I was on vacation, and he was literally doing everything. Every single tracking email at my Amazon business, he was responding to. When I came back from vacation, I sat him down and said, “You’re stuck. If this is how you want to do business, you are never moving forward. You can’t be my business partner. You are just going to be in this spot forever. There is no way to be on top of your business if you are doing every little thing. You have to take stuff off of your plate. You have to get over that fear of letting go. It’s not until you actually do that that you can accomplish something as an entrepreneur. No matter how big or small your business is, you are going to hit a ceiling, a road block. Right now, if you get sick for two weeks—I had shoulder surgery a month ago. Nothing stopped, things accelerated. I got my team motivated to work because I wasn’t there, and a lot of stuff got done while I was out. You have to look yourself in the eye and figure out if that is going to happen in your business while you are out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> David James Dunworth says, “The real measure of a successful leader is that the operation operates as or more effectively and smoothly when the boss is not there. I call the job of establishing systems and processes to get that point is owner-proofing.” That is getting out of the way, isn’t it. Owner-proofing. We have launched some questions during the interview. You sent me some good questions, and we are sharing them out there on social media. The first one: What would you do if you had two extra hours each day? Russell, what would you do if you had extra time every day?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Two extra hours. I would probably be outside walking. Definitely would be outside. It’s not a cloud in sight. It’s about 82 degrees here. That is what I would be doing. I took a break today to walk outside and get around. I love the fresh air. I made a decision to get in a really good condition this spring. I made major changes to my diet. From my last doctor’s appointment about five weeks ago, I am down 27.5 pounds. And I am sleeping better.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. I was with a client today, and they had a management team of about 14 people. They were talking about one of the aspects of one of the department’s work, and they were streamlining and automating. They estimated it would save 3.5 hours a day of the employees, which totally revamped how they were going to assign duties in that department, which is huge. They are installing some automation, which frees up people with a higher level of skill from doing something routine to utilize that skill. Nathan, what would you do with two extra hours if you had them?</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> I think that’s the difference between running a lifestyle business and trying to get back toward that lifestyle versus a workaholic. For me, when I am freeing up time, which I am constantly doing because I get more and more on my plate, I am just freeing up my time to focus on some other part of my business. I like working ten hours a day, and I am doing that no matter what. If I free up three hours, I may take an extra day off here and there, but I am reinvesting it back in the company. That content video that I didn’t have time to make, now I have time for it. That PR company that I never called back, let’s give them a phone call. For me, I am freeing up time to get more time in my business that focuses on sales, marketing, and expansion. If I am not doing something that focuses on sales, marketing, and expansion, my business is stalling. I am not moving forward as fast as I can. I owe it to the other people on my team to do that. We have all been around that boss where all they do all day is walk around and look over your shoulder. My mentality is if you are doing that, you are not doing what you are supposed to do as a leader. You are not progressing anything forward. You are not making a process better. You are not fixing anything for the future. And you are definitely not growing and expanding your company. Yes, there is a time and place to double-check work and make sure everything is going well, but the goal should be to free up your time for anything that involves expansion.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Why do you think that it’s so hard for people to do that?</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> Expanding is hard. Get to a point in your company that you are comfortable. You are making money for the first time. You have a stable client base. Anything past that is unknown territory. What happens if you invest in advertising here? What happens if you do 20 phone calls for lead generation and you get rejected 20 times? People don’t want to do what it takes to get to that next level of your business. You eventually stall out. There are people who are very comfortable running a $1 million company or a $4 million company instead of being like, “Hey, every year, I want to grow non-stop. Yes, I am setting goals and guidelines, but if I didn’t get bigger from year to year, I did something wrong that year. I am too involved, or I made a bad decision, or I wasn’t focused on expansion.” A lot of it is fear. Fear is incredibly motivating or unmotivating when it comes to people. Along with delegation, it is something you need to let go of. As a business owner, you need to figure out how to take your business to the next level, whether it is taking that online mastermind class or reading a new book or trial and error, which I am a huge fan of. Figure out a way to free up your time to take the business to the next level.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I’d like to point out that expansion becomes easier after you get older and your metabolism slows down. Not what you were talking about, I don’t think.</p> <p>Russ, do you want to piggyback on what he just said? That is so aligned with our philosophy at SynerVision.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It very much is. With that extra time for me, I was thinking I needed to take better care of myself so I can do things. Over the course of the day, if I am not learning something or out here reaching out to people or trying to grow that business, then I am in a place where I need to look at getting some of the smaller things off my plate. I have been leveraging technology. I have some people I work with here in my office who are here to help me do some things. I have been able to get more traction by connecting with other people who can help me along in my process, and that is true for anybody. The people who are clients of mine, I actually help them do that. What you are talking about is filling gaps. Those don’t necessarily have to be weaknesses. It could just be things we simply don’t want to do or are not the best use of our time for what we need to do. Nathan hit that on the head: What am I best at, and what are the things only I can do? Those are the things I try to attend to, and I try to hand other things off and find other ways to get them done.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> So true. Once we can hand off things, we can focus on what we are supposed to be doing and what we do best. Really, Nathan you talked about what kind of business, a lifestyle business. When we are in business, we need to stop and look at our life plan and make sure the business is fulfilling our life. You are getting ready to go to Mexico in a couple of days. Sounds like you got your act together, boy.</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> Yeah, I mean I have assistants who monitor my Skype and my email almost 24 hours a day. It took a lot of time and training and investing. There will always be some frustration. You hire four people, and maybe one of them doesn’t work out. They can’t be a reason to give up. You have to learn from those experiences, come up with better systems, come up with better processes, and figure out a way to do it because your competitors are going to do it. At some point, they are going to figure out how to automate it, how to hire the right people, how to make it so their business is getting bigger while you sleep. You have to figure out a way to do that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. I didn’t mean to call you “boy.” I am three times your age, so the perspective…</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> You can call me “boy” then.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s right. And you’re not catching up either.</p> <p>The next question that we posted out there, and I did talk about the real time research that people tell me they are struggling with leadership and burnout, the Meyer Foundation did a research project a few years ago and found that the burnout rate for nonprofit executives is 45%. 75% of executives are looking at the door as a way out. We feel like we are trapped and have to do too much. Let’s flip that coin. We are focusing on burnout, we don’t have enough money or time, nobody volunteers. Let’s flip it over. If we weren’t burned out, what would that mean? What could we accomplish?</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> If you’re not resting, if you are burned out on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis, you are not going to have the productivity that you can. You won’t hit your potential. You’re not going to motivate the people around you. You’re going to be short. You’re going to talk down to people. You’re not going to figure out a way to take your business to the next level. The easiest way to get burned out is by doing a lot of things you shouldn’t be doing. I spent years of my life entering data into Quickbooks. I would get hundreds of orders every week, and at the end of every month, I would go in and reconcile them. It would literally take me hours and hours and hours. If I could go back, I would honestly yell at myself. It was a terrible decision. I could hire someone from the Philippines to do it for $8 an hour. They would probably have been more prepared than I was and done a better job. There were times I would wake up at 5 am to do these Quickbooks. It was a complete waste. I could have woken up rested, ready to go, on to expand my company.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We don’t call those mistakes. We call those learning opportunities.</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> Exactly. One more thing. When I started Freeeup and had all these clients, I started bookkeeping. The first thing I did was hire someone else to do it right from the very beginning.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Damn. That’s good. All right. Russell, what would you do? You’re not burned out. You probably experienced in your career lots of burned out leaders, didn’t you?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I have run into a lot of burned out leaders. I became one because I found myself at the back end of my career working as a tribal administrator. And I had 70 employees. But I didn’t relinquish my development responsibilities. That was burning the candle at both ends there because I didn’t understand delegation. Even though I had other people there, I didn’t understand at that point in time how to hand things off. I found myself in time constraints. Everything was a crisis. I found myself overfunctioning and doing things that would have been better to hand off to other people.</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> Like what? Could you give us an example?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Some examples there would be working on grants and trying to get those ahead in time. Working on budgets and approving other projects. I should have been able to rely on my program directors to get that done, but at that time, I was a bit of a micromanager because I wanted to do what I wanted to see the organization do well. That was a part of a hard education coming through. That was really a baptism by fire. I had to learn to do a lot of things and learn to do a lot of things other people didn’t know how to do. At that point in time, I learned how to teach other people. But the largest number of people I had working for me prior to that was five when I was in the Air Force. A bit of a shift to go from five employees to 70.</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> Absolutely. That is where a lot of people get frustrated, too, is that teaching side. There are two ways to go about hiring. You hire someone who is really talented and is bringing their own experience to the table to do something that you can’t, or you are hiring someone to come in that may have some kind of background but you are teaching them your system, your way of doing it. A lot of people, especially the first few hires, don’t know how to teach. They don’t know how to give that information to someone else and do it properly and have someone get the same results or even similar because a lot of times it’s worth it if someone can do it 85% of what you can. You want to take it off your plate. A lot of people can’t accomplish that. They get frustrated and think they can’t hire, when a lot of times it comes down to their teaching, how they trained them, how they integrated them, and how they motivated after they taught them. Once you give someone the keys on how to do something, how did you make sure you were getting the most out of them every day because if you did it yourself, you would get the most out of it every day.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There are also things I do okay, but I have people who can do them better than me. Once I can back off of that and accept they are going to do it differently, the responsibility rests on the leader to identify the ending point. What is the outcome? What does it look like specifically? We are there to mentor people. There is a huge difference from micromanaging to mentoring, to empowering people.</p> <p>Let’s talk a bit about equipping ourselves as leaders. Suppose we want to free up and got a really good person to do some administrative assistance. The responsibility is on the leader to have a really good plan so that when someone comes in, we can define the quantifiable outcomes. As you are working with leaders who haven’t been successful or are new at having someone else to delegate things to, what kind of advice do you give them as far as being able to quantify the end result and empower anybody, your people or others, to accomplish those goals?</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> Sure. The first thing you have to understand is that no matter who the person is, you need them more than they need you. They can go out and get another job. You are the one who is investing training, resources, and your own time, which is invaluable. You are the one who is putting it all in. You have to be the one to get out of it. You go into it talking down to someone or being mean or not with a positive attitude, and you will get burned in the end, not them. They will walk away being like, “This boss was terrible. I hate him. I’m going to get a new job.” That’s step one.</p> <p>Step two is identifying what you want. What are your goals? What are your expectations? I see so many clients who will give someone an assignment and just walk away and go back to exactly what they were doing without outlining any goals or expectations. The worker, if they are good, in their mind they will look back and go, “I have client A, B, and C, and they liked it this way. I am going to do that.” If that client comes back a week later and gets the assignment and says, “This isn’t at all what I wanted,” then the worker is baffled because they have been doing this the same way the entire time, but no one set their goals and expectations. That is why I encourage our workers to not start anything until that discovery or scope is lined up. Even if the client is too busy or says, “You should know what to do,” that is not acceptable because that just leads to issues at the end. The worker has to step up and make sure that discovery happens so the work gets done.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want to capture the sound bite. When you don’t have a clear definition of what you want, it leads to issues. We are setting up conflict if we do that, don’t we?</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> Absolutely. A mess is bound to happen. Yes, there are all-star workers out there who can read the client’s mind and do the job without any instructions, but the majority of the time, there is going to be some kind of issue. It will also save you time and energy. There will be revisions. Even if you are someone who likes revisions, if you just set a discovery and scope up front, it will save you a lot of time. It’s worth it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. Russell, you want to weigh in on this issue? It’s a big one.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Yeah. It creates that accountability, and when the worker becomes involved, they have that accountability. Once it’s clear they understand what it is you want and you send them away, it’s like the Colombo technique when I was auditing businesses in the IRS. This is how you outsmart a lot of $500 an hour attorneys. You walk in and ask questions like a second grader until you are absolutely clear on what it is they are saying. I found that they volunteered more information. They probably thought I was the village idiot asking questions until they got the tax bill from their clients, and it looks like this guy is smarter than he looks. You want to be flexible, but you want the result. You don’t want a lot of wiggle room on that result. But flexibility as far as how to get it. You leverage that talent, and they will approach stuff in ways I would never think of. It works better for them. It doesn’t matter how they get it done as long as they got that standard that is set and they know what’s expected and they deliver, and that is what I am all about: delivering that ned result.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Just for Nathan’s benefit, he is stealing my lines. I am smarter than he looks. That is the one I use often. Last time I used it, somebody said, “That’s a good thing.” Russ, you’re so right.</p> <p>What is really annoying to the team members is when the boss does things they are not the expert at. If we started inventorying the things we’re good at but not excellent at, and maybe someone else should be doing it. I am sure you interview people who do it all, and it is hard to convince them that someone could do it better, save them time and money, free up their time. How do you approach that conversation?</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> I get to that point now where I rarely do anything that isn’t directly involved with something I am really good at. I realized it’s a total waste of time, and it usually ends up backfiring. I usually have to redo it down the line anyway. Even if I put something together makeshift that lasts me a few months. So I usually want to get it right the first time.</p> <p>What I tell clients is a story I have with my business partner Connor. We rarely fight; we have an awesome relationship. The biggest fight that we had, the time that things escalated the most, led to the best conversation. We were sitting out on our patio. We had been stepping on each other’s toes, and there was a lot of uncertainty on who was doing what. We found an activity online where we would tell each other what we were good at and what we were bad at. Connor was like, “Nate, you’re a bad writer.” I was like, “Connor, you don’t delegate properly.” We went back and forth on this for a solid hour until we had a list of everything we were good at and everything we were bad at. Can we work together? We noticed fortunately that we had a lot of complementary skills, as we were polar opposites in terms of skillsets, which was why we had such success earlier on. From there, it was fairly easy to divide everything. I am not going to do anything with writing, so Connor, you have the blog, the website. I’m better at talking on the phone, so I handle all phone calls. We were clearly able to divide the line, and as we hired people, we would have them work under us to where it related, where it was relevant.</p> <p>What I advise people to do is have an honest conversation with you, your employees, and your business partner to figure out who is good at what, and, I think Russell said this earlier, to identify where the holes are at because usually you don’t get that perfect synergy where everything is covered. You realize you don’t have a bookkeeper on your team or a developer. Those are the next steps.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I can see where people starting out in the first stages of a charity or a business need to do a lot of things. From the very beginning, especially in charities, we have all these people who want to give their time. There is an emotional release of I have to do it to feel worthy when that’s not true. You have a vision. You do what you’re really good at. And you allow other people to perform up to their highest standard and fulfill their passion. If it is worthy work, there are other people who want to join us in that work. We just have to be better at recruiting them and telling people why it’s important and what impact they are going to have in the lives of others. Russ, you might know better than I, but there are something like four million 501(c) somethings with 10s and 6s and those that are government. There is an abundance of charitable organizations in this country. Many of them have a really good mission, and many of them are compromised in that mission because of the kinds of things we are talking about here. The culture is a reflection of the leader, and as John Maxwell says in his <em>Law of the Lid,</em> the organization cannot grow any further than the leader’s ability to let it grow, to lead it. Finding really talented people to work around you is one of those strong secrets.</p> <p>If we were all to ask ourselves, “What could we take off our plate if we had someone who worked a certain number of hours?” There are two sides to this. What could we take off our plate, and what additional important thing could we do if we had that kind of assistance? There are two sides to that question. Nathan.</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> I always recommend starting small. Very few companies, especially nonprofits, will just start off hiring six full-time people and take everything off their plate. It has taken me two years of running Freeeup to get to that point and a few years into my first company as well. But what I did do was hire someone to run my social media page one hour a day. It cost me $7 a day. It took it off my plate. They did a great job in building that. Then I mentioned Quickbooks. Let’s get someone in place once a month to do that. So I get an entire day back at the end of every month. In the beginning of every day, I spend the first hour answering customer and client emails, so let’s hire someone to answer these emails an hour before I wake up so I can get a head start on every day. I started small with those three hires over the course of four to five months, and it freed up my time to invest back into expansion. From there, the business grew. So we just had a good month, and let’s hire a fourth person for four hours a day to do some small tasks. The beginning of the day is a little hectic for me, so it’d be nice if I had someone on there who I could just assign different papers to write or projects to do or contacting clients. I put that person in place, and I got an extra few hours every day, so I invested that into expanding my company. You get the point. That is the correct and proper way to go about it if you are a nonprofit, if you have a limited budget. If you are ahead of that curve and making money, then you can go ahead of that and start hiring people for 20 or 15 hours a week and start taking this off your plate. Have a meeting. Once you get your time back, have a brainstorming session on what you should be doing so you can maximize that extra time. Or if you are a lifestyle business, figure out where you are going to go on your next vacation.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> An hour a day is five hours a week. That is 25 hours a month. That is 300 hours a year. If we just outsource something for an hour a day, that is quality of life. Wow. Russ, what are you hearing here?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I am hearing that I should get somebody to do my email because the pile is growing. I could do that. I could have somebody do some of the email and some of the posting. I have some things automated. That has been my big push of late is to get some things automated. I have been doing some rework on my website and some other things are in the works. As I get more resources, I am going to get more people involved. It’s a lot of hours, and I don’t mind a lot of hours, but those hours could be spent a little better because I am still doing a lot of small things.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Aren’t we all.</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> A quick note on email. I have a lot of clients who notice those emails are piling up. It costs you business not to respond to emails. It costs you opportunities. You have to find a way to get on top of your email. That should be step one. Hugh, if you emailed me and I didn’t respond back for a week and a half, I would not be here right now potentially. There are people out there who respond fast. You have to figure out a way to do it. That is just one example. There are other parts of your business like falling behind on taxes and stuff like that that you have to figure out a way to keep up. Sometimes the only way to do that is to hire an assistant for an hour a day.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Several times a day, I clean out my email inbox, and I don’t leave it over the weekend. I do get response to it, but the point is that I am cleaning it out, and it’s time that I am spending cleaning it out to make sure I don’t miss anything that I need to gain. It’s that time cleaning it out.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We offer these sessions to nonprofit leaders to offer some best practices and good business tips for charities. Like Russ said, you can’t help but think about yourself. I teach people that we are always working on our skills. Even old guys like me can learn new things. Nate, you brought up some really good stuff. Nate Hirsch is principal at Freeeup.com. As you see, he has a lot of energy and a lot of wisdom for such a young guy. You have done a lot in such a short period of time. Thank you for being here tonight. As we wrap up, I am going to ask you to do a parting thought for people. What is some wisdom you’d like to leave us with, a tip or a closing thought?</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> When you are hiring, you want to hire people that are passionate and have a great attitude about your company. If you are hiring someone—I don’t care if it’s the smallest project—if it’s one graphic design project, get someone who is emotionally involved. Get someone you can tell actually cares about you and your company. You will get a better result. You will never know when you will use someone again. You also don’t know how it will affect the people around you. If you bring someone in who has a bad attitude, even for a day, even for a very small project, that can have lasting effects on your business that can last months. Make sure you are bringing in high-quality, high-caliber people for every little thing. Just because you have something due, don’t take a shortcut and give it to someone who could ruin your business down the line. That is my word of advice. It’s something I wish I knew upfront. I became addicted—for example, I needed Excel work done, and I would hire someone who had a bad attitude but were very good at building this formula. When they were building these formulas on my computer at my desk, I realized they were interacting with all the other people on my team. And the next week was a terribly unproductive week because everyone had the mentality that Nate would go around and hire any Joe-schmo that he could find that wasn’t passionate about the company. It took me a while to get that back on track. That is a good piece of advice that I wish I had when I was hiring the first time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is excellent advice. Everything you said in this interview has been spot-on with what Russell and I teach. We have reframed the word “consultant” to “Wayfinder,” and we help people find the way to better leadership. Nathan Hirsch of Freeeup, thank you for spending your hour with us tonight.</p> <p><strong>Nathan:</strong> Yeah, thanks for having me. Don’t forget to check out Freeeup.com. Right at the top, you can book an appointment with me and I can talk to you about your business. If you mention Hugh’s name, you get a dollar off your first worker forever. It’s free to sign up with no monthly fees.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> My name is worth a dollar.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title> Six Essentials to Attract Limitless Publicity</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/-six-essentials-to-attract-limitless-publicity</link>
      <description>Shannon Burnett-Gronich has come a long way since her days as a single mother of two, struggling to make ends meet. Through hard work and a focus on helping others find success, Shannon has developed into a successful, multi-faceted executive. Her expertise has enabled her to help hundreds of people with business development and personal growth by training and coaching them in marketing, event production, networking, and much more. Shannon has spent ten years building an international conscious business community, focused on helping small businesses grow through education, marketing, and cooperation. Known as the owner of an exclusive "Million Dollar Rolodex," Shannon has successfully attained over $3 Million in F-R-E-E press, and has taught hundreds of people how to do the same. Shannon has appeared on television, radio, and in the press, and has co-authored the Amazon #1 best seller "Law of Business Attraction - The Secret of Cooperative Success" with T Harv Eker of the Millionaire Mind.   Shannon Burnett-Gronich has produced over 300 events and conferences since 2001 with 100+ exhibitors and 100+ volunteers. She discovered that most sponsors, speakers, and exhibitors do not have the education or plan to be successful. In order for them to continue to come back year after year, Shannon developed a simple system to train businesses and their teams in the fine art of conference excellence - helping them get the results they want and make more money. She also has been an exhibitor of multiple booths that required planning, marketing, team training, sales, database building, and follow-up. She has the ability to systemize and implement a plan for follow-up so that all leads turn into cash. This is through investors, joint venture partners, product sales, and sponsors. Shannon's event production clients include Dr Linda Hole, Jim Self, Stewart Levine of Resolution Works, Dr. Gary Null - America's #1 Health Guru, and T Harv Eker. - Secret to the Millionaire Mind.    Notes from the session:
 Secrets for a Great Press Release
 1. Tagline that sizzles (12 to 14 point) Think Like Magazine Editors (Checkout at grocery store)
 2. Introduction - Invite people to talk about challenge or problem (Quote someone famous as substitute) Lean toward statistics
 3. Body - Quote yourself as an expert (preferably from other publicity from known sources)
 4. Solution - What the remedy is
 5. Call to action to readers to use information, go back for more
 6. Contact information
  
 Media Kit Contents - Expert Power Bio, Press Release, Company Pieces, Action Photos, Sample Media Done, Articles or Clippings About You, Fancy Annual Report
  
 www.shannongronich.com/powerbio
  
 The Interview Transcript
  
 Nonprofit Chat with Shannon Gronich
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. We are in this session of the Nonprofit Chat. We have had a series of really good interviews. Tonight is no exception. We have a special guest tonight, Shannon Gronich. Shannon is a dear friend, and we collaborate a lot together. Shannon has presented at my leadership empowerment symposiums multiple times, and each time, she adds more and more value to what I do. Shannon, welcome to the Nonprofit Chat.
 Shannon Gronich: Thank you so much for having me. I love the work that you do and really appreciate all of the individuals that you have touched in my life with your skill of how to build a high-performance team and how to collaborate and all that you do. Thank you, Hugh.
 Hugh: Great. Thank you. We are better when we work with good people, and I enjoy the collaboration that we share. I know things about you. You do a lot of things. You produce events and get sponsorships. Tonight, our channel is about creating the documents and the story to get picked up for free publicity. Tell us a little bit about your background in doing this and how you got to that level of expertise.
 Shannon: Thank you. That is a great question. I have always been doing events and bringing people together, ever since I was in high school, when I would throw parties and bring people together. When I started doing events, I looked at the marketing budget and the expense of that and how to grow that because a lot of times, you can spend money on marketing and not get the results you want. We were doing a local conference here in Florida and getting about 500 attendees, which is an incredible amount of individuals. So we studied how do we get picked up by TV and radio and print? We cracked the code for developing a press release that anybody can do. You don’t have to be a great writer. You don’t have to be a nonprofit even, even though this is for nonprofits. You do have an edge because of your nonprofit status. We were able to use this system for our event, and in one press release, we went from 500 to 2,000 attendees. The article got picked up in multiple places. Since then, I have helped attain millions of dollars of free publicity, not only for multiple events, but for multiple projects and individuals and lots of variations in between.
 Hugh: You have a book on this topic. What’s the book called?
 Shannon: Media Magic: Instantly Get Radio, TV, Print, and Internet Press to Give You Limitless Publicity.
 Hugh: Where can people find it? I guess you can find it on Amazon?
 Shannon: Yes, you can find it on Amazon. If you get it there, Hugh, I always say to email me, which is in the back of the book, a receipt because I will give you a free copy of a training with Jay Abraham’s ghostwriter that is just powerful. If you get it from Amazon, send me the receipt. Or you can go to my website shannongronich.com and instantly get that recording, too.
 Hugh: Great. That is a super offer. I know your content is stunning and absolutely works.
 This publicity thing, in my first book, I had a chapter on publicity. When I worked in St. Pete, I developed personal relationships with all the media, so when I sent in my announcements, they knew who it was from. And I knew how to make it complete so they would be able to print it. They said that was very rare because people would give them in all kinds of forms, and there would be things missing, like what time the event was and where to go in the properties, where it was. I developed a template that had a checklist of important things. I also found that a lot of people, and this was in church music, I had open events that were accessible by everybody, so it was important for me to get the word out. I do find that for many years, publicity was an afterthought. If you wait until the week before, it is too late. I find that that is a common thread with people running a charity or some sort of church program. We are so busy producing the event that we forget about the publicity.
 Let me run a paradigm by you. I encourage people to appoint someone in the organization to be in charge of communications, which would include event publicity, internal and external communications. There would be one person to develop the system, and that person needs to have certain qualifications. Do you find that that works in groups you have worked with? There is some person dedicated to sharing information?
 Shannon: Absolutely. Whomever is dealing with the event, whether it be the marketing coordinator, the person in charge of marketing, or the event coordinator, they do need to look at that plan. You hit on a sore spot for a lot of people. I have had people call me ten days before their event. Now, we have worked miracles and have done in the daily. Ideally, if you are looking at a project, if you can be 120 days out, 90 days out, then you can start building those relationships with publications, trade magazines, bi-monthlies, monthlies, quarterlies. We have a beautiful magazine here in our area that comes out four times a year, so you have to plan way ahead to get into their calendar of events or articles or anything like that.
 Hugh: Would you talk a little bit about that timeline? I encourage people to go backwards from the event. When you are thinking about all of these different types of publications, it’s a challenge because magazines have a different kind of lead time. It’s the publication day, but there are different kinds of lead time. There is a flow with this. Talk about working backwards from the event.
 Shannon: Absolutely. Then I want to be certain to share the six essentials that go with it. Working backwards, I always invite people- One of our greatest assets is our media list. We hear our greatest asset is our contact list, which is absolutely true. Another huge asset is our media list. With the media list, I use a simple Excel sheet. I also have them in my CRM system. But I use a simple Excel sheet that has name, publication deadlines, key contacts, but also I target writers or contributors because they can sometimes get us in to publications easier or expedite that process.
 At least, when you start creating that list, find out where you want to be. Locally seems to be the easiest. You do want to have on your vision board to target big publications and magazines. However, starting local and getting that media list together is key. Find out who does quarterly, monthly, weekly, daily. How about radio shows? You do this chat once a week, and you probably book it out a few months in advance. I even know radio hosts who are booked out six months in advance. The more lead time you can give with an event- I like to have at least 120 days so you can start building those relationships. As you have a relationship with media, it’s a lot easier. You can do exactly like you said, Hugh: “Hey, I have something that is coming in.” Let them know your timeline, and they can work within it. But especially as you are building that new relationship, you do need a little bit longer.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I used to worry about bothering people with my stuff, but it is their job; they are looking for stuff! We are actually helping them do their job. Isn’t that right?
 Shannon: Yes, there is thousands of dollars of free publicity with everybody’s who is watching this name on it right now. They are looking for stories. Now they are not looking for free advertising. This is that fine line. They are looking for good stories. I focus on these three primary things. We have all heard of negative news and things like that. You can buy in and tap into some of that. But the three things that I focus on are education; community outreach, which is where a lot of events tie in, community giveback; and human interest. They love human interest, overcoming adversity, challenges that somebody may have. You may ask what this has to do with a nonprofit. How does this benefit me? When people see Hugh Ballou has overcome—Hugh, I am sitting here trying to say something you have overcome, but I have never heard you overcome any challenges. But when they read that, they are going to go, “I need to know about Hugh. Let me connect with him. Who is this individual?”
 Hugh: I am getting over being bashful. You have hit on a subject, which is so key. Russell David Dennis has joined us. Welcome, Russell. I like his three names; he doesn’t usually use them, but I think there is a rhythm to it.
 I ran a pretty good music program in a major church in St. Pete, Florida, across Florida from where you are in Melbourne. I did really good events. There was a person- I had relationships with writers in music to critics. I had writers that did business. St. Pete Times was my customer, so St. Pete Times had different people who did different writing for different topics. I built a relationship with all of them.
 There was one time I had Sir David Wilcox, the Queen’s Musician, coming from England. We were doing this big-deal concert. I sent in my announcement to the calendar listing, just modestly sending it. The person sent it back to me and said, “We can’t publicize this church event. It’s not of general interest.” So I went to the music critic, and they jumped on it and did an interview. I had a front-page picture of the rehearsal with Sir David and my choir, which was much better than a calendar listing. This guy being a music critic knew this was a nationally renowned conductor that we were bringing to St. Pete, Florida, and they jumped on it. It was to their advantage to run the story, which they did. It didn’t fit one person’s model, but it fit another person’s model. I could have gone back to her and gone “Nyah, nah, nah,” but I didn’t because it didn’t fit her model. It fit the other model.
 Just because somebody said no, like you said, you have different people who have different slants, we can go to another place and it might be of interest to them. Do you have a story around- It’s not doing the run-around, but finding the fit, the proper thing to say.
 Shannon: A lot of people say, “What do you say? You have the press kit together. What do you do?” That is where in the media list, I do identify multiple people. You know we have a bull’s eye and aim darts at it? I imagine having a handful or fistful of bull’s eyes and I send them out to multiple people. I say, “I’m not sure where this goes. Maybe you can direct me.” Most of the time, where it gets to where it’s going, they have heard about it from different locations, so it tends to have more impact or attention.
 Hugh: The other thing I think is important to know is that you are sending it to the real person. You have checked to make sure it is the right person, and you spell their name correctly.
 Shannon: I am old-school on picking up the phone as much as possible and getting their permission and letting them know to expect it. Also to follow up and expect multiple No’s, No I didn’t get it, No I didn’t read it, No it’s the wrong department, No we don’t want to print it. My biggest success was when I was rejected 13 times, and they ended up calling me when they were going to print. They said they had remnant space. Once they did the layout, they realized they had one space, and they did a full-profile picture and an entire article.
 Hugh: Love it. That is amazing. You slid by something here that I want to come back to. The press kit. What is that?
 Shannon: That’s a great question. That is the six things we have talked about. There are six things to be ready for the media. The first thing is your press release. Having what it is that you are doing. I have a simple system that is one page, double-spaced, title at the top. It’s very much story-focused as opposed to advertising. You even quote yourself as an expert. When you quote yourself as an expert, I wouldn’t say, “Shannon, author of Media Magic.” I would say, “Shannon, author and marketing strategist,” or something very general because when they look at it and if it looks like you want free press, there is a higher chance of it ending up in the trash. We keep it very simple. The press release is one thing that you want to have ready to go. When you call them or connect with them, they will say to send it over.
 The other thing is I like people to have ready their expert power bio. An expert power bio- I say power because this is a story about you. If you are a nonprofit, this can be a story about your board or individuals who are involved. Having this ready tends to get people to pay attention and notice who you are, and you are not having to sell yourself.
 The third thing is company pieces. Do you have brochures or business cards? Have those items ready to send out on a moment’s notice. Is there an event flyer you are working with?
 Sample PR that you have been a part of. Have you been on radio or TV or articles? Sample PR that you have contributed is great. The next one is things that have been written about you, the third-party writing. Those are other items.
 The last two is your order form. I don’t always send this in with the press release. But having that ready because a lot of times, individuals want to know what you offer. Tell me more about who you are and what you offer. Have that ready so they can get an overview is key.
 The last thing is action photos. Action photos are you in action.
 I know that we want to update our headshots and have those, but do not send those in with a press release. You are really wasting your time unless they ask specifically for a headshot.
 You always want to do what they say to do as opposed to what I say to do. I am teaching you a format that has worked, but you want to follow what they say.
 Hugh, can I share a little story about action photos?
 Hugh: I love it. You know I had a photo career previously, and I see a lot of really stupid pictures. People standing around smiling is not credible. It’s not very interesting.
 Shannon: Action photos. What happened with me is when I was first learning this formula, they asked if I had any photos. I said yes and sent in a headshot. All I got was a real small article and that was it. I started looking at what they were really looking for. The next time, when they asked if I had an action photo, I said yes and put together a picture of me and a woman standing in front of a booth or display. I am looking at a brochure pointing at it with her. This was our action photo. They gave us a quarter page for the photo and then a quarter page for the article, and it was huge. They really love things that make it stand out. So I send in a few things when we submit the press release so they can pick and choose and connect with an image.
 Hugh: That’s a really good list. I want to make sure we get a numbered list and put it on the website.
 If I heard you right, nonprofits stand a good chance of getting free publicity because of the kinds of work that we do. Did I hear that correctly?
 Shannon: Absolutely. Everybody, yeah. But nonprofits have an advantage because many times, they hit all three of those things: the human interest, the community, and the education. If you can tie in all three, that can be more powerful, but it only takes one.
 Hugh: And you talked about the bio. I guess there is a whole methodology around that, and you speak about that in your book. But why are the leader and team bios important for getting free publicity? Does that lead to more attendance, more donations? What is the net result? Why do we have those bios included?
 Shannon: With the bio, and Hugh, I think I did get your permission, I am going to give them my 12-step system for free. If they go to shannongronich.com/powerbio, they can get the 12-step system that I take people through. There is actually a 13th step, which is listing your contacts or clients, even if it is a past company you have worked with. I found by adding that number 13, there has been gems, as I have talked to people, where Delta might have been a client for them. They sometimes forget key names they are able to share. So please get that.
 Why it’s important is that one of the most challenging things for individuals to do is to talk about themselves or what people might consider bragging. It is the most powerful thing to stand out in the crowd and get people to pay attention and notice you. I found that in the bio process, it really speeds up that- if you are working with a door, and they want to know who you are and what you are doing and why they should entrust you with their money, they could see this is who you have worked with, this is what you have accomplished, this is what you stand for, it makes it easier for them to write a check. You are actually not having to talk as much. With the media, they want to know who this is. Why do I need to pay attention to this individual?
 Hugh: Wow.
 Shannon: With your board, especially with donations and grants, I know that is a separate topic, but it’s important. They want to know, even with media, who is on the board and who is running this organization and to be able to share and showcase it, you have some supportive, whether it be big names or their skillset, that this is not just a whim. Or if it is just getting started, you have really positioned it with some leaders.
 Hugh: You want to position yourself as a professional. You are giving us professional tools. I know sometimes people have asked questions about bragging about what they have done. It is just a factual representation of what you stand for. That way, the person on the other end can choose what they want to extract if they want to print some of that. So those are really good points. I want to go back to the website of shannongronich.com/powerbio.
 Russell, what do you think of all this? You spent a lot of time working in the nonprofit sector, and there are so many people who keep things they do a secret.
 Russell Dennis: A lot of them don’t want to talk about themselves because they feel like it’s bragging, or they are a little bit apologetic about it. It’s important to talk about what you are doing. People want to know what it is that you’re doing. They are interested. A lot of times, some nonprofits you get social workers, and they are uncomfortable talking about value or bragging, it sounds salesy or markety. You are marketing. You want to present an image and you are telling people about what you are doing. Bob Proctor talks about it: What’s so great about that? You have to talk about what’s great and what people are getting out of it in the terms that mean something to them because it’s not about you.
 Hugh: Bob Circosta. The Whizcat. You had the Bob part right. I know we know both of them.
 So Russell, you pinged a couple ideas here. Shannon, we framed this, at least from my limited perspective, in promoting upcoming events. What about continuing to share the important things we are doing, the big successes, as a follow-up to an event or as an ongoing communication with the media? Is that any different than promoting an event or something coming up?
 Shannon: Even an event, there are ways you want to craft it. What education piece can you contribute? What education piece is your nonprofit? They are always looking for that type of information. If there is something in the media that is happening now that you can piggyback on, that can really get you some traction and mileage. I am just going to use this example. We had one woman tie in Donald Trump in her article and media, and they picked it up and went wild with it. If you are in real estate and the real estate market, something is happening with that trend, see what is in the media and what people are talking about. If there is a way to craft around a story what is happening there, that is a great way to get some steam.
 Hugh: Is that called newsjacking?
 Shannon: Yes. I like that.
 Hugh: Yeah. You can get some extra buzz, can’t you, if you piggyback on what is going on. It could backfire though, couldn’t it?
 Shannon: Yeah. I am always real mindful of religion and politics. Don’t let that stop you. You just want to be careful. You’re right, Hugh. What I have noticed about marketing is that 100% of the time they are inaccurate about something. I just had to always be thankful for what I got. I have had them spell my last name wrong. There is 100% of the time something has been incorrect. I am grateful for it.
 I have had bad press. I have also worked with people who have had bad press. There are different levels of bad, but there are also different ways of twisting that. One of my bad press stories, they took a picture of our event road sign, which had our website and our phone number and our company name, and it said, “Road signs are loitering our town.” It was negative news. But it was a half-page photo, so that was great.
 I had another friend come to me with something that was horrible for her when it happened. She was in a lawsuit, and different things were coming up. She was nervous about her event. She wondered if she didn’t do her event, if that negative news would be really bad. They kept writing about her in the paper. They even mentioned her event, and her event sold out like a month in advance. But she was a woman making a difference in the world. Her event was around empowering women and leaving an impact and human trafficking. Despite her personal drama going on, she was a woman with purpose and passion, and she had to keep focused on her vision and mission through doing this. It turned out to be just incredible for her.
 Hugh: So getting attention and getting to what the essential message is. If I’m hearing you also, we want to set ourselves apart and define what is so important about what we are doing. That is what Russ was talking about with the Whizcat. I have seen a lot, and written a lot, of bad press releases. Give us some of the worst practices and how you would change that. You have seen some bad ones, I’m sure.
 Shannon: Yes. People spend thousands of dollars on publicists, and then they come to me and say, “Nothing got picked up.” So I look at their press release, and it’s an ad. All it is is selling. That is the number one mistake: taking a press release and selling yourself. If you are paying for advertising, that is something that would make sense. But a lot of times, they don’t pick it up. Don’t put your logo on the top. That is free advertising. I know people have that style, but I found that if you just put the tagline at the very top, add a number if you can- The one I said for my event, the tagline was “85 ways to improve your health in six hours or less.” We had 85 booths, it was a six-hour event, and it was around health. That was a very creative way. People are like, “What is this?” and it got picked up. Do as much as you can to not market yourself.
 Also, keep it one page. Keep it simple. Double-spaced. Less is more. This concept of more is more is going out the window as a whole in life. I found that less is more because that gets them wanting to connect and ask questions.
 I know this is off the press release, but you also have to remember that you are talking with them. When you are interviewing them or picking up the phone and they say, “Tell me about this story,” don’t talk at them for ten minutes. Just give them this snippet. “I want to share 85 ways to improve your health in six hours or less. It’s a great event. I think you guys want to know about it. We want our community to know.” Less is more in each aspect of this to where they are kind of pulling it out of you.
 Hugh: And the less needs to be valuable. Think about what the essential message is. Back to what Russ said a minute ago, why they should care. We need to hit with the why piece of this. These elements are really good. This goes for social media posting as well: I see people hammering really hard and selling. Getting some coverage, whether you want people to retweet it or share the post or you want the media to pick it up in publications, you can’t be arrogant about what you’re doing and press it out there like you are selling them a used car. I find that very helpful.
 Shannon: And the other key piece with the publicity is- Do you care if I go through and tell them what the key components are?
 Hugh: Go for it.
 Shannon: This is one of the ways I find it’s simple to get millions of dollars in free press. The tagline is at the top. Usually in 12-14 font, 5-7 words. Sometimes it can be a little more. Make that sizzle. The way I have learned to make things sizzle is an ongoing practice, not worrying about what the article is saying, but how to write a tagline. Next time you go into a grocery store, look at Oprah or Cosmo, these magazines that have spent billions of dollars in learning how to craft press releases. Take a picture and look at them and figure out how to use it in your business. “Three strategies, nine tools, how to,” those educational pieces are very easy. Use that to start training your brain to look at what works.
 If you search “Hubspot blog generator,” you can actually put in three nouns and it will help you come up with catchy titles. It’s not perfect. You can play with it. But it will help you get that idea of what is going to get them to pay attention. That is the absolute number one most important thing.
 Then you go into the introduction, which is the second most important thing. That is where most of the time I invite people to talk about the challenge or the problem. It’s best if it has stats, numbers, and references of where you find that information. That is really powerful. That is the number one thing I would select. If you cannot for some reason identify a problem, then you can quote somebody famous. Paul Pilzer is an economist I have used. Einstein, I have seen individuals use. You want it to be relevant. But try to lean toward the stats and talking about the challenge. Usually, 2-3 sentences at the most. Real short and sweet. Allow them to want to pay attention a little more.
 The second paragraph, there are only three in this process. The second one is the body. In the body, you always start with quoting yourself as an expert. When you quote yourself, it’s a formula. You do beginning quote, states Hugh Ballou, transformational leadership expert. With Hugh, I would put Forbes-recognized because guess what? Forbes is a big name. That’s a little different than Media Magic. You want to put that big name, but otherwise, keep it general. Then end quote. You are quoting yourself as an expert. It’s a statement. It’s not a quote like you would put in social media. It’s more of a statement about what the problem is that you are a solution for or why it’s important to address that.
 Then you give a few more sentences. It could be five or seven sentences because you want to keep it on one page, double-spaced. That is where you start talking about the solution and driving them toward- if it’s a solution for stress, you might give them one solution.
 In the third paragraph, the call to action could be, “Go to my website to get this information.” Do not sell in the press release. It could be a call to action to the readers or the publisher. This press release is something that could help our community, or it can be a call to action to the readers. Take this information to make your nonprofit go to the next level.
 At the very bottom, you put your contact information, phone number, and website.
 Hugh: As tax-exempt organizations—Russ can weigh in on this with his experience in the IRS—we have to be very careful with a call to action because we are not selling, and we can be classified as unrelated business income if we are selling a program or a call to action. When you advertise or do an interview on public radio or TV, they are very restrictive. You can say, “For more information, go to,” and it’s typically the homepage of the organization. As charities, we have to craft those statements very carefully. Russ, do you have any more wisdom on that point?
 Shannon: I just want to say it’s actually best to do that whether you’re a nonprofit or not. The more you can stay away from selling any type of thing, the better it is. Thank you for bringing that up as far as the rules of nonprofits.
 Hugh: Russ, do you have some wisdom on that? Thank you, Shannon.
 Russell: Sure. As far as the call to action for nonprofits is building a good story and telling people where they can get more information. You want to give more information. If you can hit them with facts about the problem you solve and why those facts are important, that is what matters. We ned to move forward on this and take action to solve this problem. Find out how you can get involved. You leave it at that. With a nonprofit, you really have to hammer the problem and why it’s important to the people you are trying to reach.
 Hugh: Russ has noted the steps you just went through with the press release in the chat box. I encourage people to register at nonprofitchat.org to get the notes, which will then send you to the archives so you can get all the history of the nonprofit Exchange.
 We used to do a separate chat and exchange, and the hashtag was #nonprofitexchange on Twitter, which still goes on simultaneously with this live interview. We found that we wanted to incorporate more energy into one event. So interviewing experts and providing worthy information brings a whole lot of value. We are targeting nonprofits, but this works for businesses, too. I don’t think there is anything I’ve heard that wouldn’t work for business publicity, right?
 Shannon: Correct.
 Hugh: Thinking about some of the things you have talked about before, the elements of the press kit, is there somewhere on your site that people can get that checklist for the press kit?
 Shannon: It might be in one of my blogs, but I am not certain.
 Hugh: I want to see if Russ can grab those five. Go ahead, Shannon. Give us those five. I think it’s worth repeating. Some people call it a media kit, a press kit. If I understood, you are doing a physical kit that is hard-copy.
 Shannon: I have it on my website. I have a Media Access to different radio shows, things I have done in the past. When we talk about showcasing what you have done in the past, either things you have participated in or written about you, having those are great. I do like to have something. There are environments I go into, like CEO Space, to have something that is in a folder or include a disc of you. Most of it I put on the website or send in an email for that initial contact.
 Hugh: Got it. So the things in the press kit are?
 Shannon: The expert power bio. The press release. Company pieces.
 Hugh: Company pieces like?
 Shannon: A brochure, business cards, flyers about the events, anything regarding your company. Action photos.
 Hugh: Action photos. People doing stuff.
 Shannon: Yep. Sample media that you have done, anything you have participated in. And then articles or clippings about you.
 Hugh: Love it. Was that too fast, Russ?
 Shannon: As a nonprofit, if you have a fancy annual report, or things you have, I would consider the end report as a company piece that a nonprofit has that you can include in that. I would suggest it anyway.
 Hugh: If you are sending an email, you could include a link to that website, if it is a lengthy report. Sometimes they are. The reporter could go and search that out.
 Part of what you ran by before, I’d like you to say more about the title. I find that the title can make a huge amount of difference. You mentioned a way to come up with snazzy titles. I use the Google Keywords tool, and I put in what I think is a good title and it gives me other words around that. It helps me think about other words that maybe I didn’t think about. You mentioned using Hubspot, and they have a blog title generator.
 Shannon: Yeah, that’s really great. As you are out looking around, see what’s out there. What I found that numbers are the most powerful. That gets people to know, “Okay, there is a system here. This is synchronized.” There is an ending. For some reason, if you can tie numbers into your taglines, that is the best. Looking at how to’s. My personal human interest was, I sent it smaller, but they printed, “Paralyzed woman heals with ancient Chinese exercise,” incorporating how you overcome adversity. If you are doing charity work and have an impact on a family or in your mission, you can tie that into the tagline.
 Hugh: Speaking about-
 Shannon: I don’t say any names. Some individuals will say- I wouldn’t say “Hugh Ballou is coming to Melbourne.” This is how a lot of people write press releases. I would say, “Forbes-recognized transformational leadership specialist coming to Melbourne.” I wouldn’t mention the name because the name won’t mean anything in the title. But the Forbes would.
 Hugh: Got it. This is a gold mine of very useful information, Shannon. Let’s give the name of your book again.
 Shannon: And then Robert Green has a question on Facebook that I want to answer if he is still with us because I love Robert and I know you do, too. I put you two together.
 You can get the book at shannongronich.com or on Amazon. You can send in the receipt, or if you do it on my website you get it right away: I give you Jay Abraham’s ghostwriter’s training on copywriting. It is Copywriting Secrets. Shannongronich.com. Media Magic: Instantly Get Radio, TV, Print, and Internet Press to Give You Limitless Publicity.
 Hugh: It was a while ago that you wrote it.
 Shannon: That is a long one.
 Hugh: That is a testimony. He is a well-read man.
 Shannon: One of my favorite things in the book that a lot of individuals talk about is I have actually given power words. These power words are really groovy, especially around putting around your power bio. It gets you to think of things like “articulated, created, developed.” Those are verbs that are action/results oriented. There is hundreds of them. I alphabetize them. That right there, people say they look at it all the time. It is a great resource.
 Hugh: Outstanding. Russell, of course you have read that book, right?
 Russell: I have. I highlighted a few pieces. It’s always good to remind myself when I get stuck for action words in a blog post. This is right here in my office. I remember Shannon’s action words and flip it to the page. You can say the same thing with several different words.
 One of the mistakes I see a lot of nonprofit leaders make is when they are writing things, particularly grants, they use passive language. That was a habit I had for a long time. When you are using that passive language, it doesn’t convey the message as quickly and succinctly, so you want to use these action words in grants. Especially when you are quantifying your results and how you are going to measure what you’re doing, you want action words. When you are talking about what you are going to accomplish, you want to use these action words. We have the number of people who are on food stamps, for example. You want to have these action words there so they are operative and available. In the press release, it has to be short, snappy, and get them to *audio cut*
 Shannon: Russell, do you find that when you’re submitting a grant- And I want to make sure we get to Robert Green’s question. Do you find that when you’re submitting a grant that them knowing they have media exposure, do you ever submit where they have been in the media, with publicity, with grant proposals?
 Russell: Depends on what the request for proposal asks for. If you have been highlighted or featured, that is always a piece to add to your credibility. In most bios for board members and that type of thing, the important things you put in there are these are the things we have done. If you have gotten those numbers or results for things you have done in the past with other projects that go into that, that is pretty powerful. It adds to the credibility. You have that in the press kit. I would add that into the nonprofit press kit. Who has funded you? Who have you worked with? What results have you managed to get with other or similar programs, especially if you are following up with something? Now let’s take it to the next level and have people come back to learn more about it.
 Hugh: Really good advice. That whole thing, Russ, about passive language- Russ is a gifted writer, as you might guess, so he pays attention to those things. There is a huge difference in how people are going to receive it.
 Shannon, what is this question that has been lingering out there?
 Shannon: Robert Green, with Think Global Start Local, says, “I am on a mission to inspire people to do more planned giving to support nonprofits in general, and one in particular. This is a sophisticated proposition. This is really about shifting people from being considered donors to meaningful donors. Is this something I can craft into a well-written press release or a story?”
 Absolutely, Robert. I can see a few angles with that. One is the education piece of letting people know the benefits of that, the impact they are having. There are other benefits, like tax benefits. Thinking about the education piece of the benefits. Also, if there are any meaningful stories that can be crafted around this of individuals who have done the meaningful donation, there is probably a number of angles you can take with that press release.
 Hugh: Thank you, Robert, for that really good question. Sometimes the donations are like a sympathy card. What we want to do. That paradigm shift he is suggesting is so important. We want meaningful supporters who make meaningful donations. I think what people want to know is what is going to happen as a result of my donation? You referenced it when you said what is the impact of the work that you do? Russ talked about it when he said earlier on about the why piece. I keep going back to that. If you have a why piece, why do people need this? To couple it with the impact, and you quote yourself and others in your organization, then they know you have the leadership ability with you and your team to actually accomplish it. There is also a rhythm of getting information out, Shannon, isn’t there? You want to be covered on a regular basis so the cumulative impact is stronger than a one-time release.
 Shannon: This is where if I could leave individuals with anything is scheduling this as part of your operations. It is a meaningful and worthwhile and impactful way. Especially fi you are a nonprofit where you are struggling and don’t have much of a marketing budget. I tell you that if you are spending anything on marketing, incorporate this free publicity piece because you can actually expand your marketing dollars even beyond that. Hopefully my story of taking an event from 500 to 2,000 people shows you the value of putting time and energy into this. I have had thousands of dollars in one particular project in publicity and am able to turn that into some great things. Please look at this as part of your operation and plan is getting that coverage on a regular basis. Sometimes you get it and they say, “This isn’t going to work,” so you have to tweak the tagline. Even with an expert who has done it a number of times, most of the time, I nail it now, but as you are learning how to do this, you are building relationships and moving things forward. Yes, you should be every week spending time getting yourself out there.
 Hugh: I want to invite people to check out Nonprofit Performance Magazine at nonprofitperformance.org. We do useful articles. The next edition will be on boards.
 Shannon, if we wanted to craft a press release on the new board member or the importance of the people on our board, would that seem to be newsworthy if we have high people in our organization doing good work? Speak a minute about that. It seems self-serving or kissing up to people, but in the other sense, it is celebrating a person who has a lot of connections and a lot of value to the community, and they are putting the value into the work we are doing as a charity. Is there a press release piece around new board members or new board initiatives to celebrate the power of the board that we have?
 Shannon: Absolutely. I would try in your press release to keep it as singular-focused as possible. If you have six people on your board, look at doing some individually. But a new board member would be welcoming. Focusing on what their expertise is that they are bringing to the table. If they are somebody like Hugh Ballou who has been in Forbes, you can name drop.
 Russell: Shamelessly, at that.
 Hugh: I love it. I love it.
 Shannon: It’s true. You are such a prime example of when you have had certain levels of accomplishment that are internationally recognized, those are opportunities to name drop and leverage that with your board. It’s telling the story where we are welcoming this new person. Here is what they are bringing to the table. Quoting them. This is a place to quote them on the impact they are going to be leaving here. Quotes are real short and sweet. It’s one sentence with you in the middle.
 Hugh: Love it. Think about a parting thought. Maybe there is another tip or thought you want to leave us with. Shannon, you have given us some very useful stuff in this interview, thank you so much.
 As we are winding down and wrapping up this hour, which has gone way too fast, what is a parting tip or thought you would like to leave people with?
 Shannon: I just want to share one of the biggest transformations that I see in this media kit process. That is the power of the expert power bio. I did give you the 12-step power bio at shannongronich.com/powerbio. Going through this process and creating that, I have seen this for me personally be able to get wages like an attorney. I have seen individuals get speaking gigs that they didn’t necessarily get before. The expert power bio is usually one of the first places I start with people because it has the greatest impact on the results that we have in multiple areas of the nonprofit. When you are talking to donors or media, when you are looking at proposals or agreements, if you don’t have that, put energy and time on that because right now, there are thousands of dollars of publicity waiting for you. There are stages waiting for you. There are radio interviews waiting for you. They just need to know who you are and why they want to pay attention.
 Hugh: Wise words. Russ, thank you as always for being so diligent in capturing the sound bites that matter. Shannon, thank you for sharing your wisdom with the nonprofit world.
 Shannon: Awesome. Thank you, Hugh, for your work. I can’t say enough for how grateful I am and all the lives you have touched in my world at our events. Hugh is on our executive team, so he is just a rock star. Thank you, Hugh. And thank you, Russell. I love you, too.
 Russell: Good to see you again. I love this. Like I said, this book is in my office. Shameless promotion. It is best to let your friends recognize you, Shannon.
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/84566ae6-b329-11eb-9f0f-9362447da614/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Media Magic with Shannon Gronich</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Shannon Burnett-Gronich has come a long way since her days as a single mother of two, struggling to make ends meet. Through hard work and a focus on helping others find success, Shannon has developed into a successful, multi-faceted executive. Her expertise has enabled her to help hundreds of people with business development and personal growth by training and coaching them in marketing, event production, networking, and much more. Shannon has spent ten years building an international conscious business community, focused on helping small businesses grow through education, marketing, and cooperation. Known as the owner of an exclusive "Million Dollar Rolodex," Shannon has successfully attained over $3 Million in F-R-E-E press, and has taught hundreds of people how to do the same. Shannon has appeared on television, radio, and in the press, and has co-authored the Amazon #1 best seller "Law of Business Attraction - The Secret of Cooperative Success" with T Harv Eker of the Millionaire Mind.   Shannon Burnett-Gronich has produced over 300 events and conferences since 2001 with 100+ exhibitors and 100+ volunteers. She discovered that most sponsors, speakers, and exhibitors do not have the education or plan to be successful. In order for them to continue to come back year after year, Shannon developed a simple system to train businesses and their teams in the fine art of conference excellence - helping them get the results they want and make more money. She also has been an exhibitor of multiple booths that required planning, marketing, team training, sales, database building, and follow-up. She has the ability to systemize and implement a plan for follow-up so that all leads turn into cash. This is through investors, joint venture partners, product sales, and sponsors. Shannon's event production clients include Dr Linda Hole, Jim Self, Stewart Levine of Resolution Works, Dr. Gary Null - America's #1 Health Guru, and T Harv Eker. - Secret to the Millionaire Mind.    Notes from the session:
 Secrets for a Great Press Release
 1. Tagline that sizzles (12 to 14 point) Think Like Magazine Editors (Checkout at grocery store)
 2. Introduction - Invite people to talk about challenge or problem (Quote someone famous as substitute) Lean toward statistics
 3. Body - Quote yourself as an expert (preferably from other publicity from known sources)
 4. Solution - What the remedy is
 5. Call to action to readers to use information, go back for more
 6. Contact information
  
 Media Kit Contents - Expert Power Bio, Press Release, Company Pieces, Action Photos, Sample Media Done, Articles or Clippings About You, Fancy Annual Report
  
 www.shannongronich.com/powerbio
  
 The Interview Transcript
  
 Nonprofit Chat with Shannon Gronich
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. We are in this session of the Nonprofit Chat. We have had a series of really good interviews. Tonight is no exception. We have a special guest tonight, Shannon Gronich. Shannon is a dear friend, and we collaborate a lot together. Shannon has presented at my leadership empowerment symposiums multiple times, and each time, she adds more and more value to what I do. Shannon, welcome to the Nonprofit Chat.
 Shannon Gronich: Thank you so much for having me. I love the work that you do and really appreciate all of the individuals that you have touched in my life with your skill of how to build a high-performance team and how to collaborate and all that you do. Thank you, Hugh.
 Hugh: Great. Thank you. We are better when we work with good people, and I enjoy the collaboration that we share. I know things about you. You do a lot of things. You produce events and get sponsorships. Tonight, our channel is about creating the documents and the story to get picked up for free publicity. Tell us a little bit about your background in doing this and how you got to that level of expertise.
 Shannon: Thank you. That is a great question. I have always been doing events and bringing people together, ever since I was in high school, when I would throw parties and bring people together. When I started doing events, I looked at the marketing budget and the expense of that and how to grow that because a lot of times, you can spend money on marketing and not get the results you want. We were doing a local conference here in Florida and getting about 500 attendees, which is an incredible amount of individuals. So we studied how do we get picked up by TV and radio and print? We cracked the code for developing a press release that anybody can do. You don’t have to be a great writer. You don’t have to be a nonprofit even, even though this is for nonprofits. You do have an edge because of your nonprofit status. We were able to use this system for our event, and in one press release, we went from 500 to 2,000 attendees. The article got picked up in multiple places. Since then, I have helped attain millions of dollars of free publicity, not only for multiple events, but for multiple projects and individuals and lots of variations in between.
 Hugh: You have a book on this topic. What’s the book called?
 Shannon: Media Magic: Instantly Get Radio, TV, Print, and Internet Press to Give You Limitless Publicity.
 Hugh: Where can people find it? I guess you can find it on Amazon?
 Shannon: Yes, you can find it on Amazon. If you get it there, Hugh, I always say to email me, which is in the back of the book, a receipt because I will give you a free copy of a training with Jay Abraham’s ghostwriter that is just powerful. If you get it from Amazon, send me the receipt. Or you can go to my website shannongronich.com and instantly get that recording, too.
 Hugh: Great. That is a super offer. I know your content is stunning and absolutely works.
 This publicity thing, in my first book, I had a chapter on publicity. When I worked in St. Pete, I developed personal relationships with all the media, so when I sent in my announcements, they knew who it was from. And I knew how to make it complete so they would be able to print it. They said that was very rare because people would give them in all kinds of forms, and there would be things missing, like what time the event was and where to go in the properties, where it was. I developed a template that had a checklist of important things. I also found that a lot of people, and this was in church music, I had open events that were accessible by everybody, so it was important for me to get the word out. I do find that for many years, publicity was an afterthought. If you wait until the week before, it is too late. I find that that is a common thread with people running a charity or some sort of church program. We are so busy producing the event that we forget about the publicity.
 Let me run a paradigm by you. I encourage people to appoint someone in the organization to be in charge of communications, which would include event publicity, internal and external communications. There would be one person to develop the system, and that person needs to have certain qualifications. Do you find that that works in groups you have worked with? There is some person dedicated to sharing information?
 Shannon: Absolutely. Whomever is dealing with the event, whether it be the marketing coordinator, the person in charge of marketing, or the event coordinator, they do need to look at that plan. You hit on a sore spot for a lot of people. I have had people call me ten days before their event. Now, we have worked miracles and have done in the daily. Ideally, if you are looking at a project, if you can be 120 days out, 90 days out, then you can start building those relationships with publications, trade magazines, bi-monthlies, monthlies, quarterlies. We have a beautiful magazine here in our area that comes out four times a year, so you have to plan way ahead to get into their calendar of events or articles or anything like that.
 Hugh: Would you talk a little bit about that timeline? I encourage people to go backwards from the event. When you are thinking about all of these different types of publications, it’s a challenge because magazines have a different kind of lead time. It’s the publication day, but there are different kinds of lead time. There is a flow with this. Talk about working backwards from the event.
 Shannon: Absolutely. Then I want to be certain to share the six essentials that go with it. Working backwards, I always invite people- One of our greatest assets is our media list. We hear our greatest asset is our contact list, which is absolutely true. Another huge asset is our media list. With the media list, I use a simple Excel sheet. I also have them in my CRM system. But I use a simple Excel sheet that has name, publication deadlines, key contacts, but also I target writers or contributors because they can sometimes get us in to publications easier or expedite that process.
 At least, when you start creating that list, find out where you want to be. Locally seems to be the easiest. You do want to have on your vision board to target big publications and magazines. However, starting local and getting that media list together is key. Find out who does quarterly, monthly, weekly, daily. How about radio shows? You do this chat once a week, and you probably book it out a few months in advance. I even know radio hosts who are booked out six months in advance. The more lead time you can give with an event- I like to have at least 120 days so you can start building those relationships. As you have a relationship with media, it’s a lot easier. You can do exactly like you said, Hugh: “Hey, I have something that is coming in.” Let them know your timeline, and they can work within it. But especially as you are building that new relationship, you do need a little bit longer.
 Hugh: Absolutely. I used to worry about bothering people with my stuff, but it is their job; they are looking for stuff! We are actually helping them do their job. Isn’t that right?
 Shannon: Yes, there is thousands of dollars of free publicity with everybody’s who is watching this name on it right now. They are looking for stories. Now they are not looking for free advertising. This is that fine line. They are looking for good stories. I focus on these three primary things. We have all heard of negative news and things like that. You can buy in and tap into some of that. But the three things that I focus on are education; community outreach, which is where a lot of events tie in, community giveback; and human interest. They love human interest, overcoming adversity, challenges that somebody may have. You may ask what this has to do with a nonprofit. How does this benefit me? When people see Hugh Ballou has overcome—Hugh, I am sitting here trying to say something you have overcome, but I have never heard you overcome any challenges. But when they read that, they are going to go, “I need to know about Hugh. Let me connect with him. Who is this individual?”
 Hugh: I am getting over being bashful. You have hit on a subject, which is so key. Russell David Dennis has joined us. Welcome, Russell. I like his three names; he doesn’t usually use them, but I think there is a rhythm to it.
 I ran a pretty good music program in a major church in St. Pete, Florida, across Florida from where you are in Melbourne. I did really good events. There was a person- I had relationships with writers in music to critics. I had writers that did business. St. Pete Times was my customer, so St. Pete Times had different people who did different writing for different topics. I built a relationship with all of them.
 There was one time I had Sir David Wilcox, the Queen’s Musician, coming from England. We were doing this big-deal concert. I sent in my announcement to the calendar listing, just modestly sending it. The person sent it back to me and said, “We can’t publicize this church event. It’s not of general interest.” So I went to the music critic, and they jumped on it and did an interview. I had a front-page picture of the rehearsal with Sir David and my choir, which was much better than a calendar listing. This guy being a music critic knew this was a nationally renowned conductor that we were bringing to St. Pete, Florida, and they jumped on it. It was to their advantage to run the story, which they did. It didn’t fit one person’s model, but it fit another person’s model. I could have gone back to her and gone “Nyah, nah, nah,” but I didn’t because it didn’t fit her model. It fit the other model.
 Just because somebody said no, like you said, you have different people who have different slants, we can go to another place and it might be of interest to them. Do you have a story around- It’s not doing the run-around, but finding the fit, the proper thing to say.
 Shannon: A lot of people say, “What do you say? You have the press kit together. What do you do?” That is where in the media list, I do identify multiple people. You know we have a bull’s eye and aim darts at it? I imagine having a handful or fistful of bull’s eyes and I send them out to multiple people. I say, “I’m not sure where this goes. Maybe you can direct me.” Most of the time, where it gets to where it’s going, they have heard about it from different locations, so it tends to have more impact or attention.
 Hugh: The other thing I think is important to know is that you are sending it to the real person. You have checked to make sure it is the right person, and you spell their name correctly.
 Shannon: I am old-school on picking up the phone as much as possible and getting their permission and letting them know to expect it. Also to follow up and expect multiple No’s, No I didn’t get it, No I didn’t read it, No it’s the wrong department, No we don’t want to print it. My biggest success was when I was rejected 13 times, and they ended up calling me when they were going to print. They said they had remnant space. Once they did the layout, they realized they had one space, and they did a full-profile picture and an entire article.
 Hugh: Love it. That is amazing. You slid by something here that I want to come back to. The press kit. What is that?
 Shannon: That’s a great question. That is the six things we have talked about. There are six things to be ready for the media. The first thing is your press release. Having what it is that you are doing. I have a simple system that is one page, double-spaced, title at the top. It’s very much story-focused as opposed to advertising. You even quote yourself as an expert. When you quote yourself as an expert, I wouldn’t say, “Shannon, author of Media Magic.” I would say, “Shannon, author and marketing strategist,” or something very general because when they look at it and if it looks like you want free press, there is a higher chance of it ending up in the trash. We keep it very simple. The press release is one thing that you want to have ready to go. When you call them or connect with them, they will say to send it over.
 The other thing is I like people to have ready their expert power bio. An expert power bio- I say power because this is a story about you. If you are a nonprofit, this can be a story about your board or individuals who are involved. Having this ready tends to get people to pay attention and notice who you are, and you are not having to sell yourself.
 The third thing is company pieces. Do you have brochures or business cards? Have those items ready to send out on a moment’s notice. Is there an event flyer you are working with?
 Sample PR that you have been a part of. Have you been on radio or TV or articles? Sample PR that you have contributed is great. The next one is things that have been written about you, the third-party writing. Those are other items.
 The last two is your order form. I don’t always send this in with the press release. But having that ready because a lot of times, individuals want to know what you offer. Tell me more about who you are and what you offer. Have that ready so they can get an overview is key.
 The last thing is action photos. Action photos are you in action.
 I know that we want to update our headshots and have those, but do not send those in with a press release. You are really wasting your time unless they ask specifically for a headshot.
 You always want to do what they say to do as opposed to what I say to do. I am teaching you a format that has worked, but you want to follow what they say.
 Hugh, can I share a little story about action photos?
 Hugh: I love it. You know I had a photo career previously, and I see a lot of really stupid pictures. People standing around smiling is not credible. It’s not very interesting.
 Shannon: Action photos. What happened with me is when I was first learning this formula, they asked if I had any photos. I said yes and sent in a headshot. All I got was a real small article and that was it. I started looking at what they were really looking for. The next time, when they asked if I had an action photo, I said yes and put together a picture of me and a woman standing in front of a booth or display. I am looking at a brochure pointing at it with her. This was our action photo. They gave us a quarter page for the photo and then a quarter page for the article, and it was huge. They really love things that make it stand out. So I send in a few things when we submit the press release so they can pick and choose and connect with an image.
 Hugh: That’s a really good list. I want to make sure we get a numbered list and put it on the website.
 If I heard you right, nonprofits stand a good chance of getting free publicity because of the kinds of work that we do. Did I hear that correctly?
 Shannon: Absolutely. Everybody, yeah. But nonprofits have an advantage because many times, they hit all three of those things: the human interest, the community, and the education. If you can tie in all three, that can be more powerful, but it only takes one.
 Hugh: And you talked about the bio. I guess there is a whole methodology around that, and you speak about that in your book. But why are the leader and team bios important for getting free publicity? Does that lead to more attendance, more donations? What is the net result? Why do we have those bios included?
 Shannon: With the bio, and Hugh, I think I did get your permission, I am going to give them my 12-step system for free. If they go to shannongronich.com/powerbio, they can get the 12-step system that I take people through. There is actually a 13th step, which is listing your contacts or clients, even if it is a past company you have worked with. I found by adding that number 13, there has been gems, as I have talked to people, where Delta might have been a client for them. They sometimes forget key names they are able to share. So please get that.
 Why it’s important is that one of the most challenging things for individuals to do is to talk about themselves or what people might consider bragging. It is the most powerful thing to stand out in the crowd and get people to pay attention and notice you. I found that in the bio process, it really speeds up that- if you are working with a door, and they want to know who you are and what you are doing and why they should entrust you with their money, they could see this is who you have worked with, this is what you have accomplished, this is what you stand for, it makes it easier for them to write a check. You are actually not having to talk as much. With the media, they want to know who this is. Why do I need to pay attention to this individual?
 Hugh: Wow.
 Shannon: With your board, especially with donations and grants, I know that is a separate topic, but it’s important. They want to know, even with media, who is on the board and who is running this organization and to be able to share and showcase it, you have some supportive, whether it be big names or their skillset, that this is not just a whim. Or if it is just getting started, you have really positioned it with some leaders.
 Hugh: You want to position yourself as a professional. You are giving us professional tools. I know sometimes people have asked questions about bragging about what they have done. It is just a factual representation of what you stand for. That way, the person on the other end can choose what they want to extract if they want to print some of that. So those are really good points. I want to go back to the website of shannongronich.com/powerbio.
 Russell, what do you think of all this? You spent a lot of time working in the nonprofit sector, and there are so many people who keep things they do a secret.
 Russell Dennis: A lot of them don’t want to talk about themselves because they feel like it’s bragging, or they are a little bit apologetic about it. It’s important to talk about what you are doing. People want to know what it is that you’re doing. They are interested. A lot of times, some nonprofits you get social workers, and they are uncomfortable talking about value or bragging, it sounds salesy or markety. You are marketing. You want to present an image and you are telling people about what you are doing. Bob Proctor talks about it: What’s so great about that? You have to talk about what’s great and what people are getting out of it in the terms that mean something to them because it’s not about you.
 Hugh: Bob Circosta. The Whizcat. You had the Bob part right. I know we know both of them.
 So Russell, you pinged a couple ideas here. Shannon, we framed this, at least from my limited perspective, in promoting upcoming events. What about continuing to share the important things we are doing, the big successes, as a follow-up to an event or as an ongoing communication with the media? Is that any different than promoting an event or something coming up?
 Shannon: Even an event, there are ways you want to craft it. What education piece can you contribute? What education piece is your nonprofit? They are always looking for that type of information. If there is something in the media that is happening now that you can piggyback on, that can really get you some traction and mileage. I am just going to use this example. We had one woman tie in Donald Trump in her article and media, and they picked it up and went wild with it. If you are in real estate and the real estate market, something is happening with that trend, see what is in the media and what people are talking about. If there is a way to craft around a story what is happening there, that is a great way to get some steam.
 Hugh: Is that called newsjacking?
 Shannon: Yes. I like that.
 Hugh: Yeah. You can get some extra buzz, can’t you, if you piggyback on what is going on. It could backfire though, couldn’t it?
 Shannon: Yeah. I am always real mindful of religion and politics. Don’t let that stop you. You just want to be careful. You’re right, Hugh. What I have noticed about marketing is that 100% of the time they are inaccurate about something. I just had to always be thankful for what I got. I have had them spell my last name wrong. There is 100% of the time something has been incorrect. I am grateful for it.
 I have had bad press. I have also worked with people who have had bad press. There are different levels of bad, but there are also different ways of twisting that. One of my bad press stories, they took a picture of our event road sign, which had our website and our phone number and our company name, and it said, “Road signs are loitering our town.” It was negative news. But it was a half-page photo, so that was great.
 I had another friend come to me with something that was horrible for her when it happened. She was in a lawsuit, and different things were coming up. She was nervous about her event. She wondered if she didn’t do her event, if that negative news would be really bad. They kept writing about her in the paper. They even mentioned her event, and her event sold out like a month in advance. But she was a woman making a difference in the world. Her event was around empowering women and leaving an impact and human trafficking. Despite her personal drama going on, she was a woman with purpose and passion, and she had to keep focused on her vision and mission through doing this. It turned out to be just incredible for her.
 Hugh: So getting attention and getting to what the essential message is. If I’m hearing you also, we want to set ourselves apart and define what is so important about what we are doing. That is what Russ was talking about with the Whizcat. I have seen a lot, and written a lot, of bad press releases. Give us some of the worst practices and how you would change that. You have seen some bad ones, I’m sure.
 Shannon: Yes. People spend thousands of dollars on publicists, and then they come to me and say, “Nothing got picked up.” So I look at their press release, and it’s an ad. All it is is selling. That is the number one mistake: taking a press release and selling yourself. If you are paying for advertising, that is something that would make sense. But a lot of times, they don’t pick it up. Don’t put your logo on the top. That is free advertising. I know people have that style, but I found that if you just put the tagline at the very top, add a number if you can- The one I said for my event, the tagline was “85 ways to improve your health in six hours or less.” We had 85 booths, it was a six-hour event, and it was around health. That was a very creative way. People are like, “What is this?” and it got picked up. Do as much as you can to not market yourself.
 Also, keep it one page. Keep it simple. Double-spaced. Less is more. This concept of more is more is going out the window as a whole in life. I found that less is more because that gets them wanting to connect and ask questions.
 I know this is off the press release, but you also have to remember that you are talking with them. When you are interviewing them or picking up the phone and they say, “Tell me about this story,” don’t talk at them for ten minutes. Just give them this snippet. “I want to share 85 ways to improve your health in six hours or less. It’s a great event. I think you guys want to know about it. We want our community to know.” Less is more in each aspect of this to where they are kind of pulling it out of you.
 Hugh: And the less needs to be valuable. Think about what the essential message is. Back to what Russ said a minute ago, why they should care. We need to hit with the why piece of this. These elements are really good. This goes for social media posting as well: I see people hammering really hard and selling. Getting some coverage, whether you want people to retweet it or share the post or you want the media to pick it up in publications, you can’t be arrogant about what you’re doing and press it out there like you are selling them a used car. I find that very helpful.
 Shannon: And the other key piece with the publicity is- Do you care if I go through and tell them what the key components are?
 Hugh: Go for it.
 Shannon: This is one of the ways I find it’s simple to get millions of dollars in free press. The tagline is at the top. Usually in 12-14 font, 5-7 words. Sometimes it can be a little more. Make that sizzle. The way I have learned to make things sizzle is an ongoing practice, not worrying about what the article is saying, but how to write a tagline. Next time you go into a grocery store, look at Oprah or Cosmo, these magazines that have spent billions of dollars in learning how to craft press releases. Take a picture and look at them and figure out how to use it in your business. “Three strategies, nine tools, how to,” those educational pieces are very easy. Use that to start training your brain to look at what works.
 If you search “Hubspot blog generator,” you can actually put in three nouns and it will help you come up with catchy titles. It’s not perfect. You can play with it. But it will help you get that idea of what is going to get them to pay attention. That is the absolute number one most important thing.
 Then you go into the introduction, which is the second most important thing. That is where most of the time I invite people to talk about the challenge or the problem. It’s best if it has stats, numbers, and references of where you find that information. That is really powerful. That is the number one thing I would select. If you cannot for some reason identify a problem, then you can quote somebody famous. Paul Pilzer is an economist I have used. Einstein, I have seen individuals use. You want it to be relevant. But try to lean toward the stats and talking about the challenge. Usually, 2-3 sentences at the most. Real short and sweet. Allow them to want to pay attention a little more.
 The second paragraph, there are only three in this process. The second one is the body. In the body, you always start with quoting yourself as an expert. When you quote yourself, it’s a formula. You do beginning quote, states Hugh Ballou, transformational leadership expert. With Hugh, I would put Forbes-recognized because guess what? Forbes is a big name. That’s a little different than Media Magic. You want to put that big name, but otherwise, keep it general. Then end quote. You are quoting yourself as an expert. It’s a statement. It’s not a quote like you would put in social media. It’s more of a statement about what the problem is that you are a solution for or why it’s important to address that.
 Then you give a few more sentences. It could be five or seven sentences because you want to keep it on one page, double-spaced. That is where you start talking about the solution and driving them toward- if it’s a solution for stress, you might give them one solution.
 In the third paragraph, the call to action could be, “Go to my website to get this information.” Do not sell in the press release. It could be a call to action to the readers or the publisher. This press release is something that could help our community, or it can be a call to action to the readers. Take this information to make your nonprofit go to the next level.
 At the very bottom, you put your contact information, phone number, and website.
 Hugh: As tax-exempt organizations—Russ can weigh in on this with his experience in the IRS—we have to be very careful with a call to action because we are not selling, and we can be classified as unrelated business income if we are selling a program or a call to action. When you advertise or do an interview on public radio or TV, they are very restrictive. You can say, “For more information, go to,” and it’s typically the homepage of the organization. As charities, we have to craft those statements very carefully. Russ, do you have any more wisdom on that point?
 Shannon: I just want to say it’s actually best to do that whether you’re a nonprofit or not. The more you can stay away from selling any type of thing, the better it is. Thank you for bringing that up as far as the rules of nonprofits.
 Hugh: Russ, do you have some wisdom on that? Thank you, Shannon.
 Russell: Sure. As far as the call to action for nonprofits is building a good story and telling people where they can get more information. You want to give more information. If you can hit them with facts about the problem you solve and why those facts are important, that is what matters. We ned to move forward on this and take action to solve this problem. Find out how you can get involved. You leave it at that. With a nonprofit, you really have to hammer the problem and why it’s important to the people you are trying to reach.
 Hugh: Russ has noted the steps you just went through with the press release in the chat box. I encourage people to register at nonprofitchat.org to get the notes, which will then send you to the archives so you can get all the history of the nonprofit Exchange.
 We used to do a separate chat and exchange, and the hashtag was #nonprofitexchange on Twitter, which still goes on simultaneously with this live interview. We found that we wanted to incorporate more energy into one event. So interviewing experts and providing worthy information brings a whole lot of value. We are targeting nonprofits, but this works for businesses, too. I don’t think there is anything I’ve heard that wouldn’t work for business publicity, right?
 Shannon: Correct.
 Hugh: Thinking about some of the things you have talked about before, the elements of the press kit, is there somewhere on your site that people can get that checklist for the press kit?
 Shannon: It might be in one of my blogs, but I am not certain.
 Hugh: I want to see if Russ can grab those five. Go ahead, Shannon. Give us those five. I think it’s worth repeating. Some people call it a media kit, a press kit. If I understood, you are doing a physical kit that is hard-copy.
 Shannon: I have it on my website. I have a Media Access to different radio shows, things I have done in the past. When we talk about showcasing what you have done in the past, either things you have participated in or written about you, having those are great. I do like to have something. There are environments I go into, like CEO Space, to have something that is in a folder or include a disc of you. Most of it I put on the website or send in an email for that initial contact.
 Hugh: Got it. So the things in the press kit are?
 Shannon: The expert power bio. The press release. Company pieces.
 Hugh: Company pieces like?
 Shannon: A brochure, business cards, flyers about the events, anything regarding your company. Action photos.
 Hugh: Action photos. People doing stuff.
 Shannon: Yep. Sample media that you have done, anything you have participated in. And then articles or clippings about you.
 Hugh: Love it. Was that too fast, Russ?
 Shannon: As a nonprofit, if you have a fancy annual report, or things you have, I would consider the end report as a company piece that a nonprofit has that you can include in that. I would suggest it anyway.
 Hugh: If you are sending an email, you could include a link to that website, if it is a lengthy report. Sometimes they are. The reporter could go and search that out.
 Part of what you ran by before, I’d like you to say more about the title. I find that the title can make a huge amount of difference. You mentioned a way to come up with snazzy titles. I use the Google Keywords tool, and I put in what I think is a good title and it gives me other words around that. It helps me think about other words that maybe I didn’t think about. You mentioned using Hubspot, and they have a blog title generator.
 Shannon: Yeah, that’s really great. As you are out looking around, see what’s out there. What I found that numbers are the most powerful. That gets people to know, “Okay, there is a system here. This is synchronized.” There is an ending. For some reason, if you can tie numbers into your taglines, that is the best. Looking at how to’s. My personal human interest was, I sent it smaller, but they printed, “Paralyzed woman heals with ancient Chinese exercise,” incorporating how you overcome adversity. If you are doing charity work and have an impact on a family or in your mission, you can tie that into the tagline.
 Hugh: Speaking about-
 Shannon: I don’t say any names. Some individuals will say- I wouldn’t say “Hugh Ballou is coming to Melbourne.” This is how a lot of people write press releases. I would say, “Forbes-recognized transformational leadership specialist coming to Melbourne.” I wouldn’t mention the name because the name won’t mean anything in the title. But the Forbes would.
 Hugh: Got it. This is a gold mine of very useful information, Shannon. Let’s give the name of your book again.
 Shannon: And then Robert Green has a question on Facebook that I want to answer if he is still with us because I love Robert and I know you do, too. I put you two together.
 You can get the book at shannongronich.com or on Amazon. You can send in the receipt, or if you do it on my website you get it right away: I give you Jay Abraham’s ghostwriter’s training on copywriting. It is Copywriting Secrets. Shannongronich.com. Media Magic: Instantly Get Radio, TV, Print, and Internet Press to Give You Limitless Publicity.
 Hugh: It was a while ago that you wrote it.
 Shannon: That is a long one.
 Hugh: That is a testimony. He is a well-read man.
 Shannon: One of my favorite things in the book that a lot of individuals talk about is I have actually given power words. These power words are really groovy, especially around putting around your power bio. It gets you to think of things like “articulated, created, developed.” Those are verbs that are action/results oriented. There is hundreds of them. I alphabetize them. That right there, people say they look at it all the time. It is a great resource.
 Hugh: Outstanding. Russell, of course you have read that book, right?
 Russell: I have. I highlighted a few pieces. It’s always good to remind myself when I get stuck for action words in a blog post. This is right here in my office. I remember Shannon’s action words and flip it to the page. You can say the same thing with several different words.
 One of the mistakes I see a lot of nonprofit leaders make is when they are writing things, particularly grants, they use passive language. That was a habit I had for a long time. When you are using that passive language, it doesn’t convey the message as quickly and succinctly, so you want to use these action words in grants. Especially when you are quantifying your results and how you are going to measure what you’re doing, you want action words. When you are talking about what you are going to accomplish, you want to use these action words. We have the number of people who are on food stamps, for example. You want to have these action words there so they are operative and available. In the press release, it has to be short, snappy, and get them to *audio cut*
 Shannon: Russell, do you find that when you’re submitting a grant- And I want to make sure we get to Robert Green’s question. Do you find that when you’re submitting a grant that them knowing they have media exposure, do you ever submit where they have been in the media, with publicity, with grant proposals?
 Russell: Depends on what the request for proposal asks for. If you have been highlighted or featured, that is always a piece to add to your credibility. In most bios for board members and that type of thing, the important things you put in there are these are the things we have done. If you have gotten those numbers or results for things you have done in the past with other projects that go into that, that is pretty powerful. It adds to the credibility. You have that in the press kit. I would add that into the nonprofit press kit. Who has funded you? Who have you worked with? What results have you managed to get with other or similar programs, especially if you are following up with something? Now let’s take it to the next level and have people come back to learn more about it.
 Hugh: Really good advice. That whole thing, Russ, about passive language- Russ is a gifted writer, as you might guess, so he pays attention to those things. There is a huge difference in how people are going to receive it.
 Shannon, what is this question that has been lingering out there?
 Shannon: Robert Green, with Think Global Start Local, says, “I am on a mission to inspire people to do more planned giving to support nonprofits in general, and one in particular. This is a sophisticated proposition. This is really about shifting people from being considered donors to meaningful donors. Is this something I can craft into a well-written press release or a story?”
 Absolutely, Robert. I can see a few angles with that. One is the education piece of letting people know the benefits of that, the impact they are having. There are other benefits, like tax benefits. Thinking about the education piece of the benefits. Also, if there are any meaningful stories that can be crafted around this of individuals who have done the meaningful donation, there is probably a number of angles you can take with that press release.
 Hugh: Thank you, Robert, for that really good question. Sometimes the donations are like a sympathy card. What we want to do. That paradigm shift he is suggesting is so important. We want meaningful supporters who make meaningful donations. I think what people want to know is what is going to happen as a result of my donation? You referenced it when you said what is the impact of the work that you do? Russ talked about it when he said earlier on about the why piece. I keep going back to that. If you have a why piece, why do people need this? To couple it with the impact, and you quote yourself and others in your organization, then they know you have the leadership ability with you and your team to actually accomplish it. There is also a rhythm of getting information out, Shannon, isn’t there? You want to be covered on a regular basis so the cumulative impact is stronger than a one-time release.
 Shannon: This is where if I could leave individuals with anything is scheduling this as part of your operations. It is a meaningful and worthwhile and impactful way. Especially fi you are a nonprofit where you are struggling and don’t have much of a marketing budget. I tell you that if you are spending anything on marketing, incorporate this free publicity piece because you can actually expand your marketing dollars even beyond that. Hopefully my story of taking an event from 500 to 2,000 people shows you the value of putting time and energy into this. I have had thousands of dollars in one particular project in publicity and am able to turn that into some great things. Please look at this as part of your operation and plan is getting that coverage on a regular basis. Sometimes you get it and they say, “This isn’t going to work,” so you have to tweak the tagline. Even with an expert who has done it a number of times, most of the time, I nail it now, but as you are learning how to do this, you are building relationships and moving things forward. Yes, you should be every week spending time getting yourself out there.
 Hugh: I want to invite people to check out Nonprofit Performance Magazine at nonprofitperformance.org. We do useful articles. The next edition will be on boards.
 Shannon, if we wanted to craft a press release on the new board member or the importance of the people on our board, would that seem to be newsworthy if we have high people in our organization doing good work? Speak a minute about that. It seems self-serving or kissing up to people, but in the other sense, it is celebrating a person who has a lot of connections and a lot of value to the community, and they are putting the value into the work we are doing as a charity. Is there a press release piece around new board members or new board initiatives to celebrate the power of the board that we have?
 Shannon: Absolutely. I would try in your press release to keep it as singular-focused as possible. If you have six people on your board, look at doing some individually. But a new board member would be welcoming. Focusing on what their expertise is that they are bringing to the table. If they are somebody like Hugh Ballou who has been in Forbes, you can name drop.
 Russell: Shamelessly, at that.
 Hugh: I love it. I love it.
 Shannon: It’s true. You are such a prime example of when you have had certain levels of accomplishment that are internationally recognized, those are opportunities to name drop and leverage that with your board. It’s telling the story where we are welcoming this new person. Here is what they are bringing to the table. Quoting them. This is a place to quote them on the impact they are going to be leaving here. Quotes are real short and sweet. It’s one sentence with you in the middle.
 Hugh: Love it. Think about a parting thought. Maybe there is another tip or thought you want to leave us with. Shannon, you have given us some very useful stuff in this interview, thank you so much.
 As we are winding down and wrapping up this hour, which has gone way too fast, what is a parting tip or thought you would like to leave people with?
 Shannon: I just want to share one of the biggest transformations that I see in this media kit process. That is the power of the expert power bio. I did give you the 12-step power bio at shannongronich.com/powerbio. Going through this process and creating that, I have seen this for me personally be able to get wages like an attorney. I have seen individuals get speaking gigs that they didn’t necessarily get before. The expert power bio is usually one of the first places I start with people because it has the greatest impact on the results that we have in multiple areas of the nonprofit. When you are talking to donors or media, when you are looking at proposals or agreements, if you don’t have that, put energy and time on that because right now, there are thousands of dollars of publicity waiting for you. There are stages waiting for you. There are radio interviews waiting for you. They just need to know who you are and why they want to pay attention.
 Hugh: Wise words. Russ, thank you as always for being so diligent in capturing the sound bites that matter. Shannon, thank you for sharing your wisdom with the nonprofit world.
 Shannon: Awesome. Thank you, Hugh, for your work. I can’t say enough for how grateful I am and all the lives you have touched in my world at our events. Hugh is on our executive team, so he is just a rock star. Thank you, Hugh. And thank you, Russell. I love you, too.
 Russell: Good to see you again. I love this. Like I said, this book is in my office. Shameless promotion. It is best to let your friends recognize you, Shannon.
  
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        <![CDATA[ <strong>Shannon Burnett-Gronich</strong> has come a long way since her days as a single mother of two, struggling to make ends meet. Through hard work and a focus on helping others find success, Shannon has developed into a successful, multi-faceted executive. Her expertise has enabled her to help hundreds of people with business development and personal growth by training and coaching them in marketing, event production, networking, and much more. Shannon has spent ten years building an international conscious business community, focused on helping small businesses grow through education, marketing, and cooperation. Known as the owner of an exclusive "Million Dollar Rolodex," Shannon has successfully attained over $3 Million in F-R-E-E press, and has taught hundreds of people how to do the same. Shannon has appeared on television, radio, and in the press, and has co-authored the Amazon #1 best seller "Law of Business Attraction - The Secret of Cooperative Success" with T Harv Eker of the Millionaire Mind.   Shannon Burnett-Gronich has produced over 300 events and conferences since 2001 with 100+ exhibitors and 100+ volunteers. She discovered that most sponsors, speakers, and exhibitors do not have the education or plan to be successful. In order for them to continue to come back year after year, Shannon developed a simple system to train businesses and their teams in the fine art of conference excellence - helping them get the results they want and make more money. She also has been an exhibitor of multiple booths that required planning, marketing, team training, sales, database building, and follow-up. She has the ability to systemize and implement a plan for follow-up so that all leads turn into cash. This is through investors, joint venture partners, product sales, and sponsors. Shannon's event production clients include Dr Linda Hole, Jim Self, Stewart Levine of Resolution Works, Dr. Gary Null - America's #1 Health Guru, and T Harv Eker. - Secret to the Millionaire Mind.    <p><strong>Notes from the session:</strong></p> <p><strong>Secrets for a Great Press Release</strong></p> <p>1. Tagline that sizzles (12 to 14 point) Think Like Magazine Editors (Checkout at grocery store)</p> <p>2. Introduction - Invite people to talk about challenge or problem (Quote someone famous as substitute) Lean toward statistics</p> <p>3. Body - Quote yourself as an expert (preferably from other publicity from known sources)</p> <p>4. Solution - What the remedy is</p> <p>5. Call to action to readers to use information, go back for more</p> <p>6. Contact information</p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Media Kit Contents</strong> - Expert Power Bio, Press Release, Company Pieces, Action Photos, Sample Media Done, Articles or Clippings About You, Fancy Annual Report</p> <p> </p> <p><a href="http://www.shannongronich.com/powerbio">www.shannongronich.com/powerbio</a></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>The Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Nonprofit Chat with Shannon Gronich</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. We are in this session of the Nonprofit Chat. We have had a series of really good interviews. Tonight is no exception. We have a special guest tonight, Shannon Gronich. Shannon is a dear friend, and we collaborate a lot together. Shannon has presented at my leadership empowerment symposiums multiple times, and each time, she adds more and more value to what I do. Shannon, welcome to the Nonprofit Chat.</p> <p><strong>Shannon Gronich:</strong> Thank you so much for having me. I love the work that you do and really appreciate all of the individuals that you have touched in my life with your skill of how to build a high-performance team and how to collaborate and all that you do. Thank you, Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great. Thank you. We are better when we work with good people, and I enjoy the collaboration that we share. I know things about you. You do a lot of things. You produce events and get sponsorships. Tonight, our channel is about creating the documents and the story to get picked up for free publicity. Tell us a little bit about your background in doing this and how you got to that level of expertise.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Thank you. That is a great question. I have always been doing events and bringing people together, ever since I was in high school, when I would throw parties and bring people together. When I started doing events, I looked at the marketing budget and the expense of that and how to grow that because a lot of times, you can spend money on marketing and not get the results you want. We were doing a local conference here in Florida and getting about 500 attendees, which is an incredible amount of individuals. So we studied how do we get picked up by TV and radio and print? We cracked the code for developing a press release that anybody can do. You don’t have to be a great writer. You don’t have to be a nonprofit even, even though this is for nonprofits. You do have an edge because of your nonprofit status. We were able to use this system for our event, and in one press release, we went from 500 to 2,000 attendees. The article got picked up in multiple places. Since then, I have helped attain millions of dollars of free publicity, not only for multiple events, but for multiple projects and individuals and lots of variations in between.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You have a book on this topic. What’s the book called?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> <em>Media Magic: Instantly Get Radio, TV, Print, and Internet Press to Give You Limitless Publicity.</em></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Where can people find it? I guess you can find it on Amazon?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Yes, you can find it on Amazon. If you get it there, Hugh, I always say to email me, which is in the back of the book, a receipt because I will give you a free copy of a training with Jay Abraham’s ghostwriter that is just powerful. If you get it from Amazon, send me the receipt. Or you can go to my website shannongronich.com and instantly get that recording, too.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Great. That is a super offer. I know your content is stunning and absolutely works.</p> <p>This publicity thing, in my first book, I had a chapter on publicity. When I worked in St. Pete, I developed personal relationships with all the media, so when I sent in my announcements, they knew who it was from. And I knew how to make it complete so they would be able to print it. They said that was very rare because people would give them in all kinds of forms, and there would be things missing, like what time the event was and where to go in the properties, where it was. I developed a template that had a checklist of important things. I also found that a lot of people, and this was in church music, I had open events that were accessible by everybody, so it was important for me to get the word out. I do find that for many years, publicity was an afterthought. If you wait until the week before, it is too late. I find that that is a common thread with people running a charity or some sort of church program. We are so busy producing the event that we forget about the publicity.</p> <p>Let me run a paradigm by you. I encourage people to appoint someone in the organization to be in charge of communications, which would include event publicity, internal and external communications. There would be one person to develop the system, and that person needs to have certain qualifications. Do you find that that works in groups you have worked with? There is some person dedicated to sharing information?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Absolutely. Whomever is dealing with the event, whether it be the marketing coordinator, the person in charge of marketing, or the event coordinator, they do need to look at that plan. You hit on a sore spot for a lot of people. I have had people call me ten days before their event. Now, we have worked miracles and have done in the daily. Ideally, if you are looking at a project, if you can be 120 days out, 90 days out, then you can start building those relationships with publications, trade magazines, bi-monthlies, monthlies, quarterlies. We have a beautiful magazine here in our area that comes out four times a year, so you have to plan way ahead to get into their calendar of events or articles or anything like that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Would you talk a little bit about that timeline? I encourage people to go backwards from the event. When you are thinking about all of these different types of publications, it’s a challenge because magazines have a different kind of lead time. It’s the publication day, but there are different kinds of lead time. There is a flow with this. Talk about working backwards from the event.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Absolutely. Then I want to be certain to share the six essentials that go with it. Working backwards, I always invite people- One of our greatest assets is our media list. We hear our greatest asset is our contact list, which is absolutely true. Another huge asset is our media list. With the media list, I use a simple Excel sheet. I also have them in my CRM system. But I use a simple Excel sheet that has name, publication deadlines, key contacts, but also I target writers or contributors because they can sometimes get us in to publications easier or expedite that process.</p> <p>At least, when you start creating that list, find out where you want to be. Locally seems to be the easiest. You do want to have on your vision board to target big publications and magazines. However, starting local and getting that media list together is key. Find out who does quarterly, monthly, weekly, daily. How about radio shows? You do this chat once a week, and you probably book it out a few months in advance. I even know radio hosts who are booked out six months in advance. The more lead time you can give with an event- I like to have at least 120 days so you can start building those relationships. As you have a relationship with media, it’s a lot easier. You can do exactly like you said, Hugh: “Hey, I have something that is coming in.” Let them know your timeline, and they can work within it. But especially as you are building that new relationship, you do need a little bit longer.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Absolutely. I used to worry about bothering people with my stuff, but it is their job; they are looking for stuff! We are actually helping them do their job. Isn’t that right?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Yes, there is thousands of dollars of free publicity with everybody’s who is watching this name on it right now. They are looking for stories. Now they are not looking for free advertising. This is that fine line. They are looking for good stories. I focus on these three primary things. We have all heard of negative news and things like that. You can buy in and tap into some of that. But the three things that I focus on are education; community outreach, which is where a lot of events tie in, community giveback; and human interest. They love human interest, overcoming adversity, challenges that somebody may have. You may ask what this has to do with a nonprofit. How does this benefit me? When people see Hugh Ballou has overcome—Hugh, I am sitting here trying to say something you have overcome, but I have never heard you overcome any challenges. But when they read that, they are going to go, “I need to know about Hugh. Let me connect with him. Who is this individual?”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I am getting over being bashful. You have hit on a subject, which is so key. Russell David Dennis has joined us. Welcome, Russell. I like his three names; he doesn’t usually use them, but I think there is a rhythm to it.</p> <p>I ran a pretty good music program in a major church in St. Pete, Florida, across Florida from where you are in Melbourne. I did really good events. There was a person- I had relationships with writers in music to critics. I had writers that did business. St. Pete Times was my customer, so St. Pete Times had different people who did different writing for different topics. I built a relationship with all of them.</p> <p>There was one time I had Sir David Wilcox, the Queen’s Musician, coming from England. We were doing this big-deal concert. I sent in my announcement to the calendar listing, just modestly sending it. The person sent it back to me and said, “We can’t publicize this church event. It’s not of general interest.” So I went to the music critic, and they jumped on it and did an interview. I had a front-page picture of the rehearsal with Sir David and my choir, which was much better than a calendar listing. This guy being a music critic knew this was a nationally renowned conductor that we were bringing to St. Pete, Florida, and they jumped on it. It was to their advantage to run the story, which they did. It didn’t fit one person’s model, but it fit another person’s model. I could have gone back to her and gone “Nyah, nah, nah,” but I didn’t because it didn’t fit her model. It fit the other model.</p> <p>Just because somebody said no, like you said, you have different people who have different slants, we can go to another place and it might be of interest to them. Do you have a story around- It’s not doing the run-around, but finding the fit, the proper thing to say.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> A lot of people say, “What do you say? You have the press kit together. What do you do?” That is where in the media list, I do identify multiple people. You know we have a bull’s eye and aim darts at it? I imagine having a handful or fistful of bull’s eyes and I send them out to multiple people. I say, “I’m not sure where this goes. Maybe you can direct me.” Most of the time, where it gets to where it’s going, they have heard about it from different locations, so it tends to have more impact or attention.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The other thing I think is important to know is that you are sending it to the real person. You have checked to make sure it is the right person, and you spell their name correctly.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> I am old-school on picking up the phone as much as possible and getting their permission and letting them know to expect it. Also to follow up and expect multiple No’s, No I didn’t get it, No I didn’t read it, No it’s the wrong department, No we don’t want to print it. My biggest success was when I was rejected 13 times, and they ended up calling me when they were going to print. They said they had remnant space. Once they did the layout, they realized they had one space, and they did a full-profile picture and an entire article.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. That is amazing. You slid by something here that I want to come back to. The press kit. What is that?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> That’s a great question. That is the six things we have talked about. There are six things to be ready for the media. The first thing is your press release. Having what it is that you are doing. I have a simple system that is one page, double-spaced, title at the top. It’s very much story-focused as opposed to advertising. You even quote yourself as an expert. When you quote yourself as an expert, I wouldn’t say, “Shannon, author of <em>Media Magic.”</em> I would say, “Shannon, author and marketing strategist,” or something very general because when they look at it and if it looks like you want free press, there is a higher chance of it ending up in the trash. We keep it very simple. The press release is one thing that you want to have ready to go. When you call them or connect with them, they will say to send it over.</p> <p>The other thing is I like people to have ready their expert power bio. An expert power bio- I say power because this is a story about you. If you are a nonprofit, this can be a story about your board or individuals who are involved. Having this ready tends to get people to pay attention and notice who you are, and you are not having to sell yourself.</p> <p>The third thing is company pieces. Do you have brochures or business cards? Have those items ready to send out on a moment’s notice. Is there an event flyer you are working with?</p> <p>Sample PR that you have been a part of. Have you been on radio or TV or articles? Sample PR that you have contributed is great. The next one is things that have been written about you, the third-party writing. Those are other items.</p> <p>The last two is your order form. I don’t always send this in with the press release. But having that ready because a lot of times, individuals want to know what you offer. Tell me more about who you are and what you offer. Have that ready so they can get an overview is key.</p> <p>The last thing is action photos. Action photos are you in action.</p> <p>I know that we want to update our headshots and have those, but do not send those in with a press release. You are really wasting your time unless they ask specifically for a headshot.</p> <p>You always want to do what they say to do as opposed to what I say to do. I am teaching you a format that has worked, but you want to follow what they say.</p> <p>Hugh, can I share a little story about action photos?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I love it. You know I had a photo career previously, and I see a lot of really stupid pictures. People standing around smiling is not credible. It’s not very interesting.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Action photos. What happened with me is when I was first learning this formula, they asked if I had any photos. I said yes and sent in a headshot. All I got was a real small article and that was it. I started looking at what they were really looking for. The next time, when they asked if I had an action photo, I said yes and put together a picture of me and a woman standing in front of a booth or display. I am looking at a brochure pointing at it with her. This was our action photo. They gave us a quarter page for the photo and then a quarter page for the article, and it was huge. They really love things that make it stand out. So I send in a few things when we submit the press release so they can pick and choose and connect with an image.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a really good list. I want to make sure we get a numbered list and put it on the website.</p> <p>If I heard you right, nonprofits stand a good chance of getting free publicity because of the kinds of work that we do. Did I hear that correctly?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Absolutely. Everybody, yeah. But nonprofits have an advantage because many times, they hit all three of those things: the human interest, the community, and the education. If you can tie in all three, that can be more powerful, but it only takes one.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And you talked about the bio. I guess there is a whole methodology around that, and you speak about that in your book. But why are the leader and team bios important for getting free publicity? Does that lead to more attendance, more donations? What is the net result? Why do we have those bios included?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> With the bio, and Hugh, I think I did get your permission, I am going to give them my 12-step system for free. If they go to shannongronich.com/powerbio, they can get the 12-step system that I take people through. There is actually a 13th step, which is listing your contacts or clients, even if it is a past company you have worked with. I found by adding that number 13, there has been gems, as I have talked to people, where Delta might have been a client for them. They sometimes forget key names they are able to share. So please get that.</p> <p>Why it’s important is that one of the most challenging things for individuals to do is to talk about themselves or what people might consider bragging. It is the most powerful thing to stand out in the crowd and get people to pay attention and notice you. I found that in the bio process, it really speeds up that- if you are working with a door, and they want to know who you are and what you are doing and why they should entrust you with their money, they could see this is who you have worked with, this is what you have accomplished, this is what you stand for, it makes it easier for them to write a check. You are actually not having to talk as much. With the media, they want to know who this is. Why do I need to pay attention to this individual?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> With your board, especially with donations and grants, I know that is a separate topic, but it’s important. They want to know, even with media, who is on the board and who is running this organization and to be able to share and showcase it, you have some supportive, whether it be big names or their skillset, that this is not just a whim. Or if it is just getting started, you have really positioned it with some leaders.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You want to position yourself as a professional. You are giving us professional tools. I know sometimes people have asked questions about bragging about what they have done. It is just a factual representation of what you stand for. That way, the person on the other end can choose what they want to extract if they want to print some of that. So those are really good points. I want to go back to the website of shannongronich.com/powerbio.</p> <p>Russell, what do you think of all this? You spent a lot of time working in the nonprofit sector, and there are so many people who keep things they do a secret.</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> A lot of them don’t want to talk about themselves because they feel like it’s bragging, or they are a little bit apologetic about it. It’s important to talk about what you are doing. People want to know what it is that you’re doing. They are interested. A lot of times, some nonprofits you get social workers, and they are uncomfortable talking about value or bragging, it sounds salesy or markety. You are marketing. You want to present an image and you are telling people about what you are doing. Bob Proctor talks about it: What’s so great about that? You have to talk about what’s great and what people are getting out of it in the terms that mean something to them because it’s not about you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Bob Circosta. The Whizcat. You had the Bob part right. I know we know both of them.</p> <p>So Russell, you pinged a couple ideas here. Shannon, we framed this, at least from my limited perspective, in promoting upcoming events. What about continuing to share the important things we are doing, the big successes, as a follow-up to an event or as an ongoing communication with the media? Is that any different than promoting an event or something coming up?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Even an event, there are ways you want to craft it. What education piece can you contribute? What education piece is your nonprofit? They are always looking for that type of information. If there is something in the media that is happening now that you can piggyback on, that can really get you some traction and mileage. I am just going to use this example. We had one woman tie in Donald Trump in her article and media, and they picked it up and went wild with it. If you are in real estate and the real estate market, something is happening with that trend, see what is in the media and what people are talking about. If there is a way to craft around a story what is happening there, that is a great way to get some steam.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Is that called newsjacking?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Yes. I like that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yeah. You can get some extra buzz, can’t you, if you piggyback on what is going on. It could backfire though, couldn’t it?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Yeah. I am always real mindful of religion and politics. Don’t let that stop you. You just want to be careful. You’re right, Hugh. What I have noticed about marketing is that 100% of the time they are inaccurate about something. I just had to always be thankful for what I got. I have had them spell my last name wrong. There is 100% of the time something has been incorrect. I am grateful for it.</p> <p>I have had bad press. I have also worked with people who have had bad press. There are different levels of bad, but there are also different ways of twisting that. One of my bad press stories, they took a picture of our event road sign, which had our website and our phone number and our company name, and it said, “Road signs are loitering our town.” It was negative news. But it was a half-page photo, so that was great.</p> <p>I had another friend come to me with something that was horrible for her when it happened. She was in a lawsuit, and different things were coming up. She was nervous about her event. She wondered if she didn’t do her event, if that negative news would be really bad. They kept writing about her in the paper. They even mentioned her event, and her event sold out like a month in advance. But she was a woman making a difference in the world. Her event was around empowering women and leaving an impact and human trafficking. Despite her personal drama going on, she was a woman with purpose and passion, and she had to keep focused on her vision and mission through doing this. It turned out to be just incredible for her.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> So getting attention and getting to what the essential message is. If I’m hearing you also, we want to set ourselves apart and define what is so important about what we are doing. That is what Russ was talking about with the Whizcat. I have seen a lot, and written a lot, of bad press releases. Give us some of the worst practices and how you would change that. You have seen some bad ones, I’m sure.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Yes. People spend thousands of dollars on publicists, and then they come to me and say, “Nothing got picked up.” So I look at their press release, and it’s an ad. All it is is selling. That is the number one mistake: taking a press release and selling yourself. If you are paying for advertising, that is something that would make sense. But a lot of times, they don’t pick it up. Don’t put your logo on the top. That is free advertising. I know people have that style, but I found that if you just put the tagline at the very top, add a number if you can- The one I said for my event, the tagline was “85 ways to improve your health in six hours or less.” We had 85 booths, it was a six-hour event, and it was around health. That was a very creative way. People are like, “What is this?” and it got picked up. Do as much as you can to not market yourself.</p> <p>Also, keep it one page. Keep it simple. Double-spaced. Less is more. This concept of more is more is going out the window as a whole in life. I found that less is more because that gets them wanting to connect and ask questions.</p> <p>I know this is off the press release, but you also have to remember that you are talking with them. When you are interviewing them or picking up the phone and they say, “Tell me about this story,” don’t talk at them for ten minutes. Just give them this snippet. “I want to share 85 ways to improve your health in six hours or less. It’s a great event. I think you guys want to know about it. We want our community to know.” Less is more in each aspect of this to where they are kind of pulling it out of you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> And the less needs to be valuable. Think about what the essential message is. Back to what Russ said a minute ago, why they should care. We need to hit with the why piece of this. These elements are really good. This goes for social media posting as well: I see people hammering really hard and selling. Getting some coverage, whether you want people to retweet it or share the post or you want the media to pick it up in publications, you can’t be arrogant about what you’re doing and press it out there like you are selling them a used car. I find that very helpful.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> And the other key piece with the publicity is- Do you care if I go through and tell them what the key components are?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Go for it.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> This is one of the ways I find it’s simple to get millions of dollars in free press. The tagline is at the top. Usually in 12-14 font, 5-7 words. Sometimes it can be a little more. Make that sizzle. The way I have learned to make things sizzle is an ongoing practice, not worrying about what the article is saying, but how to write a tagline. Next time you go into a grocery store, look at <em>Oprah</em> or <em>Cosmo,</em> these magazines that have spent billions of dollars in learning how to craft press releases. Take a picture and look at them and figure out how to use it in your business. “Three strategies, nine tools, how to,” those educational pieces are very easy. Use that to start training your brain to look at what works.</p> <p>If you search “Hubspot blog generator,” you can actually put in three nouns and it will help you come up with catchy titles. It’s not perfect. You can play with it. But it will help you get that idea of what is going to get them to pay attention. That is the absolute number one most important thing.</p> <p>Then you go into the introduction, which is the second most important thing. That is where most of the time I invite people to talk about the challenge or the problem. It’s best if it has stats, numbers, and references of where you find that information. That is really powerful. That is the number one thing I would select. If you cannot for some reason identify a problem, then you can quote somebody famous. Paul Pilzer is an economist I have used. Einstein, I have seen individuals use. You want it to be relevant. But try to lean toward the stats and talking about the challenge. Usually, 2-3 sentences at the most. Real short and sweet. Allow them to want to pay attention a little more.</p> <p>The second paragraph, there are only three in this process. The second one is the body. In the body, you always start with quoting yourself as an expert. When you quote yourself, it’s a formula. You do beginning quote, states Hugh Ballou, transformational leadership expert. With Hugh, I would put Forbes-recognized because guess what? Forbes is a big name. That’s a little different than <em>Media Magic.</em> You want to put that big name, but otherwise, keep it general. Then end quote. You are quoting yourself as an expert. It’s a statement. It’s not a quote like you would put in social media. It’s more of a statement about what the problem is that you are a solution for or why it’s important to address that.</p> <p>Then you give a few more sentences. It could be five or seven sentences because you want to keep it on one page, double-spaced. That is where you start talking about the solution and driving them toward- if it’s a solution for stress, you might give them one solution.</p> <p>In the third paragraph, the call to action could be, “Go to my website to get this information.” Do not sell in the press release. It could be a call to action to the readers or the publisher. This press release is something that could help our community, or it can be a call to action to the readers. Take this information to make your nonprofit go to the next level.</p> <p>At the very bottom, you put your contact information, phone number, and website.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> As tax-exempt organizations—Russ can weigh in on this with his experience in the IRS—we have to be very careful with a call to action because we are not selling, and we can be classified as unrelated business income if we are selling a program or a call to action. When you advertise or do an interview on public radio or TV, they are very restrictive. You can say, “For more information, go to,” and it’s typically the homepage of the organization. As charities, we have to craft those statements very carefully. Russ, do you have any more wisdom on that point?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> I just want to say it’s actually best to do that whether you’re a nonprofit or not. The more you can stay away from selling any type of thing, the better it is. Thank you for bringing that up as far as the rules of nonprofits.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ, do you have some wisdom on that? Thank you, Shannon.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Sure. As far as the call to action for nonprofits is building a good story and telling people where they can get more information. You want to give more information. If you can hit them with facts about the problem you solve and why those facts are important, that is what matters. We ned to move forward on this and take action to solve this problem. Find out how you can get involved. You leave it at that. With a nonprofit, you really have to hammer the problem and why it’s important to the people you are trying to reach.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Russ has noted the steps you just went through with the press release in the chat box. I encourage people to register at nonprofitchat.org to get the notes, which will then send you to the archives so you can get all the history of the nonprofit Exchange.</p> <p>We used to do a separate chat and exchange, and the hashtag was #nonprofitexchange on Twitter, which still goes on simultaneously with this live interview. We found that we wanted to incorporate more energy into one event. So interviewing experts and providing worthy information brings a whole lot of value. We are targeting nonprofits, but this works for businesses, too. I don’t think there is anything I’ve heard that wouldn’t work for business publicity, right?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Correct.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thinking about some of the things you have talked about before, the elements of the press kit, is there somewhere on your site that people can get that checklist for the press kit?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> It might be in one of my blogs, but I am not certain.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want to see if Russ can grab those five. Go ahead, Shannon. Give us those five. I think it’s worth repeating. Some people call it a media kit, a press kit. If I understood, you are doing a physical kit that is hard-copy.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> I have it on my website. I have a Media Access to different radio shows, things I have done in the past. When we talk about showcasing what you have done in the past, either things you have participated in or written about you, having those are great. I do like to have something. There are environments I go into, like CEO Space, to have something that is in a folder or include a disc of you. Most of it I put on the website or send in an email for that initial contact.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Got it. So the things in the press kit are?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> The expert power bio. The press release. Company pieces.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Company pieces like?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> A brochure, business cards, flyers about the events, anything regarding your company. Action photos.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Action photos. People doing stuff.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Yep. Sample media that you have done, anything you have participated in. And then articles or clippings about you.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. Was that too fast, Russ?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> As a nonprofit, if you have a fancy annual report, or things you have, I would consider the end report as a company piece that a nonprofit has that you can include in that. I would suggest it anyway.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> If you are sending an email, you could include a link to that website, if it is a lengthy report. Sometimes they are. The reporter could go and search that out.</p> <p>Part of what you ran by before, I’d like you to say more about the title. I find that the title can make a huge amount of difference. You mentioned a way to come up with snazzy titles. I use the Google Keywords tool, and I put in what I think is a good title and it gives me other words around that. It helps me think about other words that maybe I didn’t think about. You mentioned using Hubspot, and they have a blog title generator.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Yeah, that’s really great. As you are out looking around, see what’s out there. What I found that numbers are the most powerful. That gets people to know, “Okay, there is a system here. This is synchronized.” There is an ending. For some reason, if you can tie numbers into your taglines, that is the best. Looking at how to’s. My personal human interest was, I sent it smaller, but they printed, “Paralyzed woman heals with ancient Chinese exercise,” incorporating how you overcome adversity. If you are doing charity work and have an impact on a family or in your mission, you can tie that into the tagline.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Speaking about-</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> I don’t say any names. Some individuals will say- I wouldn’t say “Hugh Ballou is coming to Melbourne.” This is how a lot of people write press releases. I would say, “Forbes-recognized transformational leadership specialist coming to Melbourne.” I wouldn’t mention the name because the name won’t mean anything in the title. But the Forbes would.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Got it. This is a gold mine of very useful information, Shannon. Let’s give the name of your book again.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> And then Robert Green has a question on Facebook that I want to answer if he is still with us because I love Robert and I know you do, too. I put you two together.</p> <p>You can get the book at shannongronich.com or on Amazon. You can send in the receipt, or if you do it on my website you get it right away: I give you Jay Abraham’s ghostwriter’s training on copywriting. It is Copywriting Secrets. Shannongronich.com. <em>Media Magic: Instantly Get Radio, TV, Print, and Internet Press to Give You Limitless Publicity.</em></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It was a while ago that you wrote it.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> That is a long one.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That is a testimony. He is a well-read man.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> One of my favorite things in the book that a lot of individuals talk about is I have actually given power words. These power words are really groovy, especially around putting around your power bio. It gets you to think of things like “articulated, created, developed.” Those are verbs that are action/results oriented. There is hundreds of them. I alphabetize them. That right there, people say they look at it all the time. It is a great resource.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Outstanding. Russell, of course you have read that book, right?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I have. I highlighted a few pieces. It’s always good to remind myself when I get stuck for action words in a blog post. This is right here in my office. I remember Shannon’s action words and flip it to the page. You can say the same thing with several different words.</p> <p>One of the mistakes I see a lot of nonprofit leaders make is when they are writing things, particularly grants, they use passive language. That was a habit I had for a long time. When you are using that passive language, it doesn’t convey the message as quickly and succinctly, so you want to use these action words in grants. Especially when you are quantifying your results and how you are going to measure what you’re doing, you want action words. When you are talking about what you are going to accomplish, you want to use these action words. We have the number of people who are on food stamps, for example. You want to have these action words there so they are operative and available. In the press release, it has to be short, snappy, and get them to *audio cut*</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Russell, do you find that when you’re submitting a grant- And I want to make sure we get to Robert Green’s question. Do you find that when you’re submitting a grant that them knowing they have media exposure, do you ever submit where they have been in the media, with publicity, with grant proposals?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Depends on what the request for proposal asks for. If you have been highlighted or featured, that is always a piece to add to your credibility. In most bios for board members and that type of thing, the important things you put in there are these are the things we have done. If you have gotten those numbers or results for things you have done in the past with other projects that go into that, that is pretty powerful. It adds to the credibility. You have that in the press kit. I would add that into the nonprofit press kit. Who has funded you? Who have you worked with? What results have you managed to get with other or similar programs, especially if you are following up with something? Now let’s take it to the next level and have people come back to learn more about it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Really good advice. That whole thing, Russ, about passive language- Russ is a gifted writer, as you might guess, so he pays attention to those things. There is a huge difference in how people are going to receive it.</p> <p>Shannon, what is this question that has been lingering out there?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Robert Green, with Think Global Start Local, says, “I am on a mission to inspire people to do more planned giving to support nonprofits in general, and one in particular. This is a sophisticated proposition. This is really about shifting people from being considered donors to meaningful donors. Is this something I can craft into a well-written press release or a story?”</p> <p>Absolutely, Robert. I can see a few angles with that. One is the education piece of letting people know the benefits of that, the impact they are having. There are other benefits, like tax benefits. Thinking about the education piece of the benefits. Also, if there are any meaningful stories that can be crafted around this of individuals who have done the meaningful donation, there is probably a number of angles you can take with that press release.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you, Robert, for that really good question. Sometimes the donations are like a sympathy card. What we want to do. That paradigm shift he is suggesting is so important. We want meaningful supporters who make meaningful donations. I think what people want to know is what is going to happen as a result of my donation? You referenced it when you said what is the impact of the work that you do? Russ talked about it when he said earlier on about the why piece. I keep going back to that. If you have a why piece, why do people need this? To couple it with the impact, and you quote yourself and others in your organization, then they know you have the leadership ability with you and your team to actually accomplish it. There is also a rhythm of getting information out, Shannon, isn’t there? You want to be covered on a regular basis so the cumulative impact is stronger than a one-time release.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> This is where if I could leave individuals with anything is scheduling this as part of your operations. It is a meaningful and worthwhile and impactful way. Especially fi you are a nonprofit where you are struggling and don’t have much of a marketing budget. I tell you that if you are spending anything on marketing, incorporate this free publicity piece because you can actually expand your marketing dollars even beyond that. Hopefully my story of taking an event from 500 to 2,000 people shows you the value of putting time and energy into this. I have had thousands of dollars in one particular project in publicity and am able to turn that into some great things. Please look at this as part of your operation and plan is getting that coverage on a regular basis. Sometimes you get it and they say, “This isn’t going to work,” so you have to tweak the tagline. Even with an expert who has done it a number of times, most of the time, I nail it now, but as you are learning how to do this, you are building relationships and moving things forward. Yes, you should be every week spending time getting yourself out there.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I want to invite people to check out Nonprofit Performance Magazine at nonprofitperformance.org. We do useful articles. The next edition will be on boards.</p> <p>Shannon, if we wanted to craft a press release on the new board member or the importance of the people on our board, would that seem to be newsworthy if we have high people in our organization doing good work? Speak a minute about that. It seems self-serving or kissing up to people, but in the other sense, it is celebrating a person who has a lot of connections and a lot of value to the community, and they are putting the value into the work we are doing as a charity. Is there a press release piece around new board members or new board initiatives to celebrate the power of the board that we have?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Absolutely. I would try in your press release to keep it as singular-focused as possible. If you have six people on your board, look at doing some individually. But a new board member would be welcoming. Focusing on what their expertise is that they are bringing to the table. If they are somebody like Hugh Ballou who has been in Forbes, you can name drop.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Shamelessly, at that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I love it. I love it.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> It’s true. You are such a prime example of when you have had certain levels of accomplishment that are internationally recognized, those are opportunities to name drop and leverage that with your board. It’s telling the story where we are welcoming this new person. Here is what they are bringing to the table. Quoting them. This is a place to quote them on the impact they are going to be leaving here. Quotes are real short and sweet. It’s one sentence with you in the middle.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. Think about a parting thought. Maybe there is another tip or thought you want to leave us with. Shannon, you have given us some very useful stuff in this interview, thank you so much.</p> <p>As we are winding down and wrapping up this hour, which has gone way too fast, what is a parting tip or thought you would like to leave people with?</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> I just want to share one of the biggest transformations that I see in this media kit process. That is the power of the expert power bio. I did give you the 12-step power bio at shannongronich.com/powerbio. Going through this process and creating that, I have seen this for me personally be able to get wages like an attorney. I have seen individuals get speaking gigs that they didn’t necessarily get before. The expert power bio is usually one of the first places I start with people because it has the greatest impact on the results that we have in multiple areas of the nonprofit. When you are talking to donors or media, when you are looking at proposals or agreements, if you don’t have that, put energy and time on that because right now, there are thousands of dollars of publicity waiting for you. There are stages waiting for you. There are radio interviews waiting for you. They just need to know who you are and why they want to pay attention.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wise words. Russ, thank you as always for being so diligent in capturing the sound bites that matter. Shannon, thank you for sharing your wisdom with the nonprofit world.</p> <p><strong>Shannon:</strong> Awesome. Thank you, Hugh, for your work. I can’t say enough for how grateful I am and all the lives you have touched in my world at our events. Hugh is on our executive team, so he is just a rock star. Thank you, Hugh. And thank you, Russell. I love you, too.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Good to see you again. I love this. Like I said, this book is in my office. Shameless promotion. It is best to let your friends recognize you, Shannon.</p>  <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>What to Do When Someone’s Controlling You or Your Board With Their Anger</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/what-to-do-when-someones-controlling-you-or-your-board-with-their-anger</link>
      <description>Q1 We have an anger epidemic In our society ...how does that effect nonprofits and my leadership? Q2 How can I tell when anger is damaging my leadership or my team? Q3 How do I step in without creating further escalation of anger or damage? Q4 With the anger epidemic, why do we need more than anger management or stress management.   “Feelings are never buried dead, they are only buried alive.”   Pure Anger - No or ouch! (Boundaries)   Authentic Fear - Pay Attention (Cuing Mechanism)   Healthy I Language for Dealing With These Conflicts - Offline one-on-one if fed by shame. Authentic Curiosity in other cases, don’t judge the anger, be centered what is underneath the agitation?   Shadow - everything about ourselves we conceal or justify inappropriate behavior   "Only pure anger is justifiable."   Reactive Limbic Behavior - escalation, flooding and looping   When someone is flooded - Fight, Flight, Freeze, or Faint   Anger Management only works with escalation by doing a U-turn   When Flooded - Stress chemicals in brain turn off thinking part and throw limbic system into overdrive. No conversation during this time; 15 to 20 minutes before discussion works   How you can tell if someone is Flooded - Fight or flight response to calm rational question.   Forgiveness - Behaving in the present as though I am no longer harmed by the unacceptable in the past.     Q3 Answer - Understand the three flavors of anger, first are they flooded? If not, ask question following statement I can see you are passionate, what concern are you trying to draw our attention to that we have not addressed? What intention are you trying to address? If flooded go one on one instead!     When You Are Unexpectedly Confronted with This Type of Behavior - Take a moment, take a breath, move into authentic curiosity. Do not assume I know. Level 2 “I notice I am starting to feel uncentered. I am wondering if I am the only one. Level three - I am not in a place to facilitate this discussion in a forward moving way. I am committed to resolving this.   The Pleaser - Avoids confrontation at all cost. Storyline revolves around core assumption I am not enough. Intervention - Honest appraisal of what we experienced when people were emotionally honest with us.   "Managing Anger is no substitute for Anger Prevention."     Recycling Anger has to be handled by completion   Parting Thought - Anger is your friend as long as we know how to recognize the four flavors, and the proper clarity and response for each of them. Great discoveries are possible.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2017 02:33:36 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/84ad2566-b329-11eb-9f0f-c377773af4c5/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Dr. David Gruder</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Q1 We have an anger epidemic In our society ...how does that effect nonprofits and my leadership? Q2 How can I tell when anger is damaging my leadership or my team? Q3 How do I step in without creating further escalation of anger or damage? Q4 With the anger epidemic, why do we need more than anger management or stress management.   “Feelings are never buried dead, they are only buried alive.”   Pure Anger - No or ouch! (Boundaries)   Authentic Fear - Pay Attention (Cuing Mechanism)   Healthy I Language for Dealing With These Conflicts - Offline one-on-one if fed by shame. Authentic Curiosity in other cases, don’t judge the anger, be centered what is underneath the agitation?   Shadow - everything about ourselves we conceal or justify inappropriate behavior   "Only pure anger is justifiable."   Reactive Limbic Behavior - escalation, flooding and looping   When someone is flooded - Fight, Flight, Freeze, or Faint   Anger Management only works with escalation by doing a U-turn   When Flooded - Stress chemicals in brain turn off thinking part and throw limbic system into overdrive. No conversation during this time; 15 to 20 minutes before discussion works   How you can tell if someone is Flooded - Fight or flight response to calm rational question.   Forgiveness - Behaving in the present as though I am no longer harmed by the unacceptable in the past.     Q3 Answer - Understand the three flavors of anger, first are they flooded? If not, ask question following statement I can see you are passionate, what concern are you trying to draw our attention to that we have not addressed? What intention are you trying to address? If flooded go one on one instead!     When You Are Unexpectedly Confronted with This Type of Behavior - Take a moment, take a breath, move into authentic curiosity. Do not assume I know. Level 2 “I notice I am starting to feel uncentered. I am wondering if I am the only one. Level three - I am not in a place to facilitate this discussion in a forward moving way. I am committed to resolving this.   The Pleaser - Avoids confrontation at all cost. Storyline revolves around core assumption I am not enough. Intervention - Honest appraisal of what we experienced when people were emotionally honest with us.   "Managing Anger is no substitute for Anger Prevention."     Recycling Anger has to be handled by completion   Parting Thought - Anger is your friend as long as we know how to recognize the four flavors, and the proper clarity and response for each of them. Great discoveries are possible.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[Q1 We have an anger epidemic In our society ...how does that effect nonprofits and my leadership? Q2 How can I tell when anger is damaging my leadership or my team? Q3 How do I step in without creating further escalation of anger or damage? Q4 With the anger epidemic, why do we need more than anger management or stress management.   “Feelings are never buried dead, they are only buried alive.”   Pure Anger - No or ouch! (Boundaries)   Authentic Fear - Pay Attention (Cuing Mechanism)   Healthy I Language for Dealing With These Conflicts - Offline one-on-one if fed by shame. Authentic Curiosity in other cases, don’t judge the anger, be centered what is underneath the agitation?   Shadow - everything about ourselves we conceal or justify inappropriate behavior   "Only pure anger is justifiable."   Reactive Limbic Behavior - escalation, flooding and looping   When someone is flooded - Fight, Flight, Freeze, or Faint   Anger Management only works with escalation by doing a U-turn   When Flooded - Stress chemicals in brain turn off thinking part and throw limbic system into overdrive. No conversation during this time; 15 to 20 minutes before discussion works   How you can tell if someone is Flooded - Fight or flight response to calm rational question.   Forgiveness - Behaving in the present as though I am no longer harmed by the unacceptable in the past.     Q3 Answer - Understand the three flavors of anger, first are they flooded? If not, ask question following statement I can see you are passionate, what concern are you trying to draw our attention to that we have not addressed? What intention are you trying to address? If flooded go one on one instead!     When You Are Unexpectedly Confronted with This Type of Behavior - Take a moment, take a breath, move into authentic curiosity. Do not assume I know. Level 2 “I notice I am starting to feel uncentered. I am wondering if I am the only one. Level three - I am not in a place to facilitate this discussion in a forward moving way. I am committed to resolving this.   The Pleaser - Avoids confrontation at all cost. Storyline revolves around core assumption I am not enough. Intervention - Honest appraisal of what we experienced when people were emotionally honest with us.   "Managing Anger is no substitute for Anger Prevention."     Recycling Anger has to be handled by completion   Parting Thought - Anger is your friend as long as we know how to recognize the four flavors, and the proper clarity and response for each of them. Great discoveries are possible.<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3519</itunes:duration>
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      <title>How Nonprofit Leaders Commit Brand Slaughter</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/how-nonprofit-leaders-commit-brand-slaughter</link>
      <description>David Corbin: Keynote Speaker, Business Adviser, President of Private and Public Corporations, Inventor, Mentor and pretty good guy…..David M. Corbin has been referred to as “Robin Williams with an MBA” because of his very practical, high relevant content speeches coupled with entertaining and sometimes side splitting stories. A former psychotherapist with a background in healthcare, he has served as management and leadership consultant to businesses and organizations of all sizes – from Fortune 20 companies to businesses with less than 1 million – and enjoys the challenges of all. He has worked directly with the Presidents of companies such as AT&amp;T, Hallmark, Sprint as well as the Hon.Secretary of Veterans Administration and others. http://davidcorbin.com
 Notes from the interview: Why is it important for nonprofits to be clear about their brand?
  You have a brand. If you don’t work at defining it, your audience will.
 You create an impression by your actions, intent does not stop that.
 Everything you do adds to the impression you create.
 Make believe you are always being observed and act accordingly.
 Audit your service by experiencing your deliverable. Would you do business with your organization?
  When working with people to build organization framework, when to we focus on brand promise? From the beginning.
  Why do we exist?
 Who do we serve?
 How do we want to be known?
 What do we really want?
 Who are we really?
  Everything we take on needs to fit who we are at the core!
 Do the Brand Audit right at the beginning(Before you deliver any services or approach anyone)! Team must be fully engaged all the way through.
 Quality and Clarity Determine Financial Results.
 Growth must start at an individual level for the organization to grow.
 People – The only completely renewable resource of any organization! (And the most valuable)
 Culture is a reflection of leadership!
 How Do Leaders Keep Our Internal and External Brands Fresh?
  Integrity – Living the values of the organization.
 Boss Watching – Biggest Sport!
 Model the behaviors the brand represents.
  Transformation consists of a series of small steps, often many of them! It starts with one in a row!
 Everything counts when it comes to integrity. Leader must lead by example.
 The Transcript
 NPC Interview with David Corbin
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. We are live with the Nonprofit Chat. Today, we have a guest who will bring energy to a lot of different topics tonight. David Corbin is a friend of ours. We have known each other for a number of years. This is the first time we have had a live interview, so welcome and thank you for being here.
 David Corbin: My pleasure. I’m happy to be a live interview. I hope the other ones weren’t dead. What are you trying to say, Hugh?
 Hugh: You’re a live one, man. I like guests to start out by telling people something interesting about yourself. Why do you do what you’re doing, and what is your background that gave you… The few times you and I have had some deep conversations, I have really been impressed by the depth and breadth of wisdom that you have on these topics that you talk about. Give us a little paragraph or two about David Corbin. Who are you, and what brought you to where you are today?
 David: Well, I’m a human being. I’m not a speaker. I’m not an author. I’m not a doctor. I’m a human being, and I play the role of a keynote speaker, inventor, and mentor. I am a guy who loves life. What can I say? If there is a way- As I did yesterday, I had a client fly out from Mexico. The objective overall was for him to be happy, healthy, prosperous, and the like. I am the guy who likes to do that and likes to be that as the extent I can continue to learn and grow. I do all of those things. As you know, you have been in my audience, and I have been in yours. I love to share ideas from a platform. I like to consult with corporations at the highest levels and then solopreneurs. I love to run my 5K every Saturday, and I love to play tennis. I love to hang out in my backyard. I look out there, and I have chickens running around and a turtle in the pool. Life is great.
 Hugh: You’re in San Diego, California.
 David: I am. Home of Tony Gwynn, the famous Padre. Today I was honored to be invited to the unveiling of his statue in our little town here. I was also with his family at Cooperstown at Baseball Hall of Fame as he was inducted with Cal Ripken. I am in southern California, San Diego. The town is called Poway.
 Hugh: Love it. The first time we met, we were in Lake Las Vegas, and you had just published Illuminate. You’re not an author, but you write some really profound stuff. You actually were in a suit and tie that day. What inspired you to write that book, and what is it about?
 David: I’ll tell you what it’s about. It’s about facing the reality of situations in our life and our business. You see, I have read the positive mental attitude literature, and I have had the honor of meeting Dr. Norman Vincent Peele and some of the luminaries in positive mental attitude. I am honored to be in the latest Think and Grow Rich book, Three Feet from Gold. Nowhere in that literature does it say ignore negative issues, that we should push them under the carpet as it were. I came to realize that my most successful clients were individuals who had the courage to face those issues, not just accentuate the positive as the song goes. But rather than eliminate the negative, I learned the key is to illuminate the negative in a model that I call “face it, follow it, and fix it.” That is what Illuminate is about.
 It came from the realization from practical experience, that whether it is a nonprofit, a for-profit, or a for-profit that doesn’t intend to be a nonprofit but ends up that way, no matter who it is, the individuals who have the courage and the character to face the problems head-on, that is what I found to be the greatest model, and hence the title of Illuminate: Harnessing the Positive Power of Negative Thinking.
 Hugh: What I can count on if we are having conversations is the words coming out of your mouth are not what I can expect from anyone else, because David Corbin is one of the most creative people I have ever met. I remember when we were introducing ourselves at CEO Space one time, one person said they were a consultant, and then you came along and said, “I am an insultant,” and I said, “I’m a resultant,” and your head went, Whoosh. At least one time I one-upped you.
 David: It’s on my website now. There is an asterisk at the bottom and says, “Maestro Hugh Ballou, genius extraordinaire.”
 Hugh: I am honored, David Corbin. I have not seen that. A resultant in a pipe organ is a pipe that is not as long. A sixteen-foot pipe has a certain pitch. They don’t have space, so they miter it, and the result is a lower tone from a shorter pipe. We actually create a bigger result without having to be bigger ourselves. We can amplify the sound by what we do. You and I, I love this Illuminate. Two weeks ago, I talked to David Dunworth, who is also an author. He has quoted you. We talked about that. You illuminate a lot of people you maybe don’t even know. It’s really how we amplify what other people do. I’m just energized by the fact that you’re here.
 You have another book that is new. You’ve written about brand slaughter. Is that the title?
 David: It is. I was just on the TV news this week talking about that. It was fun. The guy couldn’t get over the title.
 The concept is- People create their brand based upon their values and the brand promise out to the world. They put a check off and think they’re done. Don’t stop there. You’re either building your brand—you, your employees and everyone else in your organization—or killing it. Nothing is neutral. You are either engaged in brand integrity or engaged in what I call brand slaughter, just like manslaughter in the first, second, or third degree. We can read in the news that people are convicted of manslaughter, but you don’t often see people convicted of brand slaughter, except maybe in the case of United Airlines or Pricewaterhousecooper in front of 30 million people after 87 years of great service to the Oscars. I don’t know if it’s brand slaughter. I think they can recoup from that. However, United Airlines is going to have a hard time coming back from that brand slaughter, wouldn’t you agree?
 Hugh: I would. It’s one that got highlighted in a series of really dumb things the airline has done.
 We’re talking to passionate people who are providing amazing value but are limited by how people perceive us. I was talking to someone on a radio interview, and he said, “There is a charity in my area, but I quit giving because I really wasn’t sure what was happening.” That is part of our brand promise, who we are and what we stand for.
 David: That’s right. When we look at the organizations that part of our charter is to serve others in an amazing way, and there is no shortage of people in the giving field, those organizations are carrying a lot of weight for the society. They are making a promise out there. By and large, they are delivering. However, there are some actions and behaviors they either are taking or their management/leadership is taking or their front line people are taking—they are taking certain behaviors that are undermining the brand and the promise of the entire organization. It doesn’t have to be that way.
 Look, I have had great experiences on United Airlines. I truly have. I love Gershwin, so when I hear that music, it pus me in a wonderful state. I have met some wonderful people. They are not just a group of dirtbags. However, the one person who carries the credibility and reputation of the organization pulled down the asset value of the corporation, the reputation of the corporation, and created for great humor, “United Airlines put the hospital back in hospitality,” such that Southwest Airlines came out and said, “We beat our competition, not our customers.” That kind of stuff is just going to keep going because of one guy making one bad move.
 I want to tell the leaders, managers, supervisors, and individuals who are carrying the torch of these organizations to do what I teach in this book called an ABI, an Audit of Brand Integrity. Have every one of your employees take a sheet of paper and write down the values, write down the brand, and then write down the touchpoints they have on a daily basis with the individuals they are touching: a customer, a fellow employee, a vendor. Everyone who is carrying that brand, and that individual looks at their touchpoints and asks themselves, “How does the brand live that touchpoint?” What could I do, what might I do, what should I do, what ought I do to really boost that brand?
 If the organization, let’s say United Airlines because we are picking on them, but I can tell you two of them I experienced today alone. But I focus in on that one. If the CEO said, “Folks, this is our brand. We are doing a brand audit. After you do that audit, come back and tell us examples of how that brand is to live in your head. Maybe even tell us some examples of what you have observed in our organization when we have committed brand slaughter.” There is a statute of limitations. Nobody is going to get busted. But it helps us to see how the brand is alive and well and being fed and nurtured and supported, and on the other side, by the law of contrast, we can see where we have fallen down so we don’t fall down that hole again. That would be an amazing solution.
 I implore everyone who is listening, whether you are running a nonprofit or not—maybe you are going to at some point but now you are a parent or a neighbor or a member of a church or synagogue—and ask yourself: What is your brand? How are you living that brand? I think when we get serious about this, we can’t solve everything we face, but we can solve anything unless we face it. This is a way of facing the opportunity of building your brand asset value. I sound like a politician. I am David Corbin, and I endorse that message.
 Hugh: That’s right. Your passion is contagious. Our friend from Hawaii, Eve Hogan, is watching on Facebook. We have a lot of people that we know.
 David, there are four million 501(c) somethings. There are 10’s, 6’s, 3’s, and government organizations. There are all kinds of tax-exempt organizations. They are charities; they are social benefit organizations. Russell and I are on the campaign to eliminate the word nonprofit. Rather than defining ourselves by what we’re not, which is not correct either—we do need to make a profit to make things happen—we are social benefit organizations. We leverage intellectual property. We leverage passion. We leverage the good works and products we have for the benefit of humankind.
 These nongovernmental organizations that we represent have a bigger job and more important job today than ever before. There is real confusion on the whole branding thing. I want to back up a minute to a question posted a few minutes ago. How can nonprofits eliminate their brand? But I think it’s important for them to know why they even need a brand and why it is important to be clear about the brand. It’s true for any organization, but we are talking to nonprofits. The reason we have top-level business leaders like you on this series is we need to understand good, sound business principles to install into these organizations that we lead. Why is branding important? How do we illuminate that into the communities that want to support us but need that information?
 David: Let’s just say this. Whether you like it or not, you have a brand. Whether you know it or not, you have a brand. These scanners- I have a scanner over there. It’s a Hewlett Packard. It doesn’t compare to these scanners. *points to eyes* I have a computer that we’re working through. It doesn’t compare to this computer .*points to brain* Everyone is walking around with these scanners and this computer, and everything counts. Whether you acknowledge it or not, you are creating an impression from the eye to the brain to the heart to the soul of who you are and what you’re doing, whether you believe in it or not. I don’t know if you believe in gravity or not, but if you walk off of any building in any town of any city, you are going down. It’s an immutable fact.
 Now, thank you for the concept of the not-for-profit. Why talk about what we’re not? That was brilliant. You open up my thinking. I thank you for that.
 I want to let all of my service providers know that everything that you do is creating an impression, whether you believe in it or not. Could you imagine if I came out and said, “I want to talk about hygiene and important it is?” *while sniffling and rubbing his nose and eyes* That would be absurd. I happen to have a 501(c)3 for anti-bullying called Anti Bullying Leadership Experience. Everything that we do is going to be carrying our mojo of the anti-bullying. Could you imagine if I started yelling at one of my vendors and pouncing on them and playing a power trip with them? That would be the antithesis of everything.
 The point I want to make is make believe that you are on the stage of a microscope and you are being observed in everything that you are doing because you are. And as soon as the leaders know that, they will start looking at things differently. You drive up to the parking lot, see what the front door looks like, see how you are greeted, and you are watching everything that is going on. God is my judge, I must tell you.
 Hugh, you know I am putting together a little wedding party for my daughter. I was at two places today, one of which the woman didn’t show up to the appointment, and she needed to call me back, and she didn’t later. One was a very famous place called L’Auberge Del Mar. It’s five-star. When I called to make a room reservation there, I was there for seven and a half minutes before I even found someone. I eventually called the manager who called me back. I said, “I’m going to give you a gift. I would like you to call and try to make a room reservation and get the experience of what that’s like.” She did. She called me back and goes, “My goodness, Mr. Corbin. I had no idea.”
 We need to audit all of these activities. Our service organizations, which do not have an unlimited budget that a lot of corporations might have today, must be efficient, must be effective. The best consultation you can get is from yourself experiencing your deliverables and that which it is you are bringing to the market. I just think that we don’t have a lot of wiggle room for error.
 There is a wonderful book by Andy Grove who started a little company called Intel. You probably haven’t heard of it. Andy wrote a book called Only the Paranoid Survive. I don’t think he is suggesting that we walk around paranoid. I think he is suggesting a strong and deep introspection into what we are doing and how we are doing it. I want to punch that home. Please, please for the benefit of all whom you are serving and whom you could serve in the future, take this message seriously. Know that you have a brand. Live that brand. Make sure that everyone in your auspices know how they live that brand.
 Hugh: Those are wise words. Mr. Russell Dennis is capturing sound bites. He is very good at picking out things, and you have given him a lot of fresh meat today.
 David, you work with a variety of different kinds of clients, some of whom you and I both know. When you are working with them on building out the whole framework of the organization they are launching and growing, at what point do you hone in on this brand image, brand promise, brand identity? At what point in this process do you focus on that aspect?
 David: I believe strongly with begin in the end in mind. It’s more than rhetoric. If you are a service organization, really ask the penetrating questions. 1) Why do we exist, and do we need to exist? 2) Who do we serve, and how do we serve them? 3) How do we want to be known? 4) What do we want somebody to yell over to the fence to their neighbor about our organization? When you have that, you work backwards from that. Business planning takes the existing business and carries it out into the future, but strategic planning envisions the future and works backwards from there. I take a deep dive of visualization. Actually, as you know, I am a graduate of Woodstock. I was there in 1969. So I can say not just visualization, but hallucination. I can really hallucinate on those questions.
 I just was in front of an audience in Atlanta and said, “What do you want? What do you really want?” I say that to businesses as I do strategic planning. Who are you? Who are you really? Then you know all of that. That is when you contemplate for your brand promise and the reputation that you want to earn because you can’t demand it. Then when you do that, you get the confidence to move forward. You now have the gristmill, and everything must go through that. How does it go against our brand? Should we do that? Great, tell us how it fits into our brand. When someone does something that is off-target, how did that dent our brand, and what can we do to prevent that from happening again?
 In direct answer to your question, do this brand audit right form the get-go. I promise you not only does it give individuals a sense of ownership, but it gives them a sense of confidence because nobody wants to mess it up. In Europe, they take it down to the bottom line. When you ding the brand, you are actually pilfering money from the organization. Isn’t that something? Imagine if we really own the brand. No one changes the oil when we rent a car because they don’t have ownership. When people know what the brand is in their hands, they take ownership. What happens is when you collaborate with your people, you breed creativity and commitment. Now they are engaged, they are enrolled. Nothing can stop a service organization with passionate, engaged people. That is why I plug what you’re doing, Hugh.
 Hugh: Thank you for that, David. That is such a vivid description of how we can upgrade our performance and upgrade the performance of the organization that we have a huge responsibility for as the leader. Perceiving ourselves as the leader doesn’t mean we have to do everything. It does mean we need to be involved in the grassroots of what is going on so we can know what is actually happening. And what you talked about brings to mind that we build relationship with others in the organization. To me, that is the foundation of leadership, and it is also the foundation of communications. You gave the gift to the hotel manager that she didn’t have because she was too busy doing the top-level things to get into the minutiae and figure out, Whoa, how do we look to the public? You could go to any big company in America and help them do an audit, and it would bring them immense value, probably within the first 30 seconds of your conversation.
 Part of what you described is part of this word that you have used, which is such a brilliant framing of how we- Everybody in Synervision is a leader. We lead from different perspectives, and we impact everybody else in the organization. We also represent the brand. We don’t know who is going to go wild, like United Airlines. That was such a terrible thing for everybody, but it highlighted an underlying problem. Brand slaughter was what brought it to the fore. I bet that cost United a whole lot of money so far, not to mention future business.
 Let’s take it back to the charities. We are doing work that impacts people’s lives, sometimes saving people from drug addition or suicide or insanity. There are a lot of worthy things we are doing. We have elements going on that kill the brand. I love it when you talk about this brand slaughter thing. I’d like to put it back into context in what we’re doing with this world of charities and how we need to contain this brand and empower our tribes to represent the brand and not be guilty of brand slaughter. Give us a little more food for thought, especially for charities. I work with churches, synagogues, community foundations, semi-government agencies. I find there is a similarity with everybody, that we are not aware of how the culture is represented by the people, and that brand slaughter is committed in minor ways, but also in bigger ways.
 I am going to shut up now and let you talk about brand slaughter and why that is so crucial for our charities.
 David: I look at it this way. I believe that the financial results of any organization is largely dependent on the quality of its people and the clarity of its people. Be it a service organization or otherwise, I believe everyone in the organization should create a circle. I don’t mean hands holding. I mean draw a circle, a wheel with a hub and spokes. Every one of those spokes is an essential core job function for that person. If it’s a leader, we know some of the spokes are delegation, communication, strategic thinking, and financial management. Those are all spokes. Whatever the position is, if you’re an operating room nurse or a development manager for a service organization, you create that wheel and look at the spokes. When you do, you start rating yourself on those spokes. The hub means you’re terrible. Outside at the end is a number ten. That is mastery. You get real serious with whoever you are, whatever your job is, and rate yourself on a scale of zero to ten. Where you are an eight or nine, great, pat yourself on the back. That is really cool. But don’t stop there. Unfortunately, Americans tend to stop at the immediate gratification. Look at what I’m doing great. We say no. Focus in on the threes, fours, and fives. Set a goal to a six, eight, and nine, and close those gaps.
 I say that to my brothers and sisters who work in the serious world of service delivery. I mean what we would call service providers and not-for-profits or whatever you want to call them. When you get serious, and you rate yourself on a scale of one to ten in those areas, and you start closing those gaps, magic happens. You know what the magic is? You start building a momentum of growing yourself. You can’t grow an organization unless the individuals are growing themselves.
 You show me an organization that does what I’m talking about: closing the gaps, setting personal goals, and getting more efficient and effective in what they do. I don’t care if their building burns down; they could accomplish their mission in a tent. They could do it with dirt floors. They could do it anywhere. The saying is, “Wherever two or more people are gathered in His name, there is love.” Let me tell you.
 Whenever you have a leadership team and a management team that talks about building their people, the only renewable asset in an organization, no matter what happens, they will win. Every one of the employees increases their asset value. You invoke the law of control. People feel good about themselves in the extent they are moving in the direction of destiny. Their confidence goes up. Their competence goes up. People talk about going down the rabbit hole. Now you are going up this amazing spire into success, achievement, productivity, confidence, peace of mind, and self-esteem. I am passionate about that because I have seen it work. I help it work. I live it myself. I couldn’t talk about it if I didn’t live it, or else that would be a form of brand slaughter.
 Hugh: I can validate that. You live out the David Corbin brand. You illuminate the brand. Or you don’t do it. You are very serious about being spot-on. You show up fully present.
 I have been doing the German ice cream thing. I am being Häagen-Dazs Mike. Russell, do you have a comment or a question for our guest tonight?
 Russell Dennis: It’s a lot easier to tear a brand apart than it is to put it together. Look at United. Those guys have been around forever and a day. And in the space of a day, they have torn the whole thing down and trashed a lot of good wealth. It’s very easy. Brand is about- it goes beyond a logo. People think of a logo when they think of a brand. It’s not the logo; it’s what is behind the logo that symbolizes something. I am going to pull a definition out of a book that a very wise man wrote, “The brand as is a tangible expression of top-performing culture comes to life when the elements including the mission are taken off the wall and put into daily action at all levels and through all individuals in the organization.” That is a big mouthful.
 Hugh: Who is the wise person that wrote that?
 Russ: Just some guy who is sitting around while we chat.
 Hugh: David Corbin wrote that.
 Russ: Brand slaughter, to me, is the ultimate thing. To say this is what we stand for and do something completely different. I think there are some people out there who are scrutinizing and are waiting for somebody to make a mistake. I have seen people do that. You run into those folks in a supermarket. People don’t intentionally set out to fail, but it happens. These are things that are talked about in the Core Steps to Building a Nonprofit course. When it’s building that foundation, they could lay all those things out.
 The time to figure out your brand is right at the outset. Who do we serve? What is in our wheelhouse? What do we have? What are we weak at? Where are our gaps? I think you have to hammer those strengths and work with them, but when you have a gap, that is where your recruiting starts. You recruit your advisors, you recruit your board. Or you look for collaborative partners. But you find a way to do it that will stay because everything rides on it. You have to have it all in place. You have to have a solid foundation to start making those plans and do the things that you want to do first. What are we going to do first? There is a big vision.
 I have been working with Sue Lee. We had a great conversation yesterday. I have also been working with Dennis Cole on his foundation. We are looking at some potential sponsors. We have got some things that we are going to be doing really soon that are interesting, but we are ready to break out and go out there and be a service to people by telling them they don’t have to succumb to any bad circumstances they have because of an injury or major illness. You can work around that. The whole brand is about living that and walking that walk. These are pretty courageous young men I am proud to be helping.
 Hugh: Part of that course where you talked about- David, Russell is helping people bring in revenue to their so-called nonprofits/charities. There is a relevance. Russ, I’d like to get David weigh in on the relevance of this branding and attracting revenue, the income that we really need that is the profit that runs our charity. Russell, I’ll bring it back to you in a minute, but you had illuminated some things that I wanted to get David to weigh in on. There is a monetary equivalent to the integrity in our brand that you talked about earlier.
 David: Yeah. Just as in the strategic planning you are asking yourself who are we serving and why are we serving and how are we serving, when you look at the individuals you are appealing to in business development, you say, “Hey, contribute to us. Support us.” When we are looking at that, we then need to reverse-engineer that.
 That is what I do in my visualization/hallucination. Why are they contributing? What have they contributed to before? What are they contributing to? What is going to make them feel good? How do they know they are contributing to the right organization after they contribute so they might want to contribute again? When you contemplate the psychology of that, much like you look into why people invest into businesses, you think about those donors. Then you know that the emotional connection-
 You guys have heard me talk about the mojo factor or the God only knows factor. Why are you contributing to them year after year? God only knows. Would you consider not contributing to them or contributing to someone else? Absolutely not. Why? God only knows. They are not sure what that emotional connection is, but you know the emotional connection.
 In my case, with the anti-bullying, we are looking at the ramifications of some of these young souls who have been bullied and how it impacts their lives. Individuals who are donating to that might have experienced some bullying before and know the pain they went through, as well as the imaginations throughout their life. We know that now, so we know what the mojo factor is to get that individual to know who we are, what we do, and how and why they might want to invest.
 When that becomes our brand, when they can see it and feel it and taste it and touch it, which it to say there is energy between what we are doing and what we are saying, from the logo and the color and the actions and our behaviors and our sounds, then when we have that going on, we have this awesome connection.
 Years ago, some of us are old enough to know about Ma Bell. Remember Ma Bell? And then a company came in called Sprint and they wanted to break that God only knows connection, that amazing connection between Ma Bell. Sprint came in and said. It was MCI. They said, “We are going to beat the price,” and Ma Bell came out and said, “Oh yeah? Make them put it in writing.” Ma Bell, you don’t talk like that. Ma? They broke that bond, you see. That is just an example of breaking a bond.
 When it comes to our organizations who are listening today, the bond is that promise. The two great things that my friend Russell just discussed are 1) it’s a lot easier to kill a brand than to build a brand. That is so true. And secondly, among other things Russell shared, there are some people out there who are looking for you to mess up. There is an individual looking for the rabbi to have a ham sandwich. There is an individual who is looking for the such-and-such the wrong way. They are looking for that. Why? Because it is easier to find the fault in others than to take the personal responsibility to build themselves. So when you know that, don’t be paranoid. But be a little paranoid and know they are watching you. Not only are people scanning you from a neutral point of view, and those scanning you from a positive point of view, but there are also those naysayers who are looking for you to be hypocritical. They are looking for you to mess up. That is when I say have everybody lockstep in knowing what is our promise and behaving that way. You can’t go after fund development and not be the brand, or you are wasting your time.
 Hugh: Whoa. So Russell, I have interrupted you. Were you formulating a question? We are two thirds of the way through our interview, and we are getting into the nitty-gritty. Did you have a really hard question to stump our guest with tonight?
 Russ: There is no stumping David. It just follows in with what I was saying. The fourth step of building a high-performance nonprofit is to be able to communicate that value that you bring to everybody you come into contact with. You have people that work in the organization. You have donors. You have people who get your services. You need to know how to do it with everyone. With people who are working with you internally, you have to set an expectation so people know exactly what they are signing up for. Understand that you are not everybody’s flavor, but you are some people’s flavor.
 When you talk to organizations or donors or people who are going to support you, here is the reality of anything you undertake: There is going to be some risk associated. If you walk in and tell them, “Everything is going to be peachy,” when you are in the service mind-frame or an entrepreneur, we can be hopeless optimists a lot of times. It has been my experience that a lot of things take twice the money, time, and effort they are going to take because we go in with those good intentions. We have to be fully transparent, especially if we discover we have some problems or snags implementing the project. The time to talk about that is as soon as you discover it and look at it and say, “Well, we may not be where we quite want to be.” Up front, transparent. Illuminate as David has talked about. That is a book that is on my shelf. I love that book. I read the thing in one sitting.
 A lot of people want to cover up. Or human egos want to make us look good. When we are in the business of trying to help people with some serious societal problems, you have to get the ego out of the way. That is hard to do. It makes it difficult to get organizations to collaborate or talk to one another. I have seen a lot of that, too. My philosophy is that you can get a hell of a lot done if you are not hung up on who gets the credit. It is an uphill climb often, but I think the landscape is changing a little bit. People are going into business with a socially benefited mind. They create business structures like the LLC and the B-corp and the benefit corporations. We are seeing a lot of these social enterprises crop up. People can not only make a profit but can also do some good. It’s all about doing some good, but there are certain things we have to look at. It has to be run efficiently and effectively, but it doesn’t matter what your tax stamp says.
 Hugh: There is a comment on Twitter: “Doing what you love, loving whom you serve, believing that your nonprofit is vital. I knew too many whose hearts aren’t in…” That’s interesting.
 David, do you want to respond to Russ before we go to the final set of questions here?
 David: Well, a couple things that come to mind. Something that you had said earlier, Hugh, and something that Russell just said. I’ll start with Russell. Yes, you need to face the issue. Face a lot of issues. Look at what happened. Happily, there will be lemonade coming out of this lemon on the United Airlines. Not for that doctor, but he will get a huge settlement. That is not what he wanted. I think the industry is shifting now. I read somewhere that Southwest Airlines has changed their model around overselling seats. Sometimes it takes this type of situation for people to learn, and then they shift. A lot of people don’t really appreciate their life or family until God forbid maybe a near-death experience, and that is what wakes them up. I say practice safety in driving before then, don’t wait for a near-death experience.
 Start contemplating for the potential issues or challenges that might happen in your organization before it happens. That is the part of roleplaying what could/might happen. What could possibly happen in this situation? Those are the types of things. Don’t be a negative nelly. Don’t get me wrong. The government has something called Sarbanes-Oxley that says the corporation has the fiduciary responsibility to anticipate, predict, and prepare for a natural disaster. It makes good sense. You don’t have to mandate that to me as a business owner. Of course, if I am manufacturing a car, I want to make sure that if the person who creates my rearview mirrors goes down, I am still going to be able to meet the needs of my organization, my shareholders, my staff, my employees. Of course I am going to do that. I don’t need regulation. For crying out loud, I don’t even need the Americans with Disabilities Act, which is to provide reasonable accommodations for people with disabilities. For crying out loud, that is just good sense. It is just good sense. Plus it is the right thing to do. But be that as it may, we need to face the issue before it happens. Oh by the way, be prepared for facing the issue after it happens.
 So Mr. President of United Airlines, anticipate if a problem goes down how you are going to handle it. Don’t say he was only following procedure. There was a guy in Nazi Germany who used to say that, too. I was just following procedure. I hate to make an extreme example, but I make a point following procedure. Following procedure, pulling a guy off, breaking his teeth. Come on. To say that is just ridiculous.
 What Pricewaterhouse did after they had a big brouhaha in front of 33 million people, they had 87 years of doing the job really well. What happened after that is they came back and apologized. They said Mea culpa. Just like the Japanese corporate executives did if a plane goes down, they resign. They take personal responsibility. But what Pricewaterhouse did is they said: It was our responsibility, and we apologize. We are looking into it. We want to congratulate those people on camera, including Jimmy Kimmel, for handling it elegantly. Even bringing a little humor into it. We apologize from the bottom of our hearts—I am paraphrasing here—and we will get to the bottom of this. We will let you know what happens so it never happens again. You see, that ding wasn’t brand slaughter. It was kind of like getting a ticket for tinted windows or a light being out. I believe we are going to forgive them after a while, but it will be hard to forgive United Airlines after they issued responsibility and took that cheap ticket out.
 I’m piggybacking off some of the comments you made earlier. I think it’s an important point. Anticipate what can go wrong. It doesn’t require legislation for that; it requires common sense. Then practice. Practice so it comes out naturally. Sir Lawrence Olivier said the key to acting is spontaneity, which is the result of long, hard, tedious practice. I say practice.
 Hugh: I could hear you talk all night, David. I think people would be with us this long. There are people listening to you with lots of focus.
 We could all reframe our own leadership. The question we threw out for people to think about is from the leadership position. My forty years of conducting, I know that what the orchestra and the choir sees is what I get. The culture is a reflection of our leadership. Representing the brand internally helps them represent the brand externally. My question to you is, in this whole spirit of illuminating- I don’t know about you, but I find some leaders who have more blind spots than awareness on the impact they are having on the brand externally and internally. You can do your own inventory, but I don’t think we can. We need to illuminate with some outside, impartial person asking us the right questions. David, how can a leader, especially one that has been in a position for a while, keep it fresh and illuminate our own representation of our brand internally and externally?
 David: I think it’s about integrity. Integrity is a powerful word. It’s thrown around. But integrity, the leader living the values of the business. I can’t ask you to do what I’m not willing to do. They say one of the biggest sports in life is soccer, but I don’t think that’s true. I think the biggest sport in life is boss-watching. Seriously. I really think that. They set the culture. They set the pace. To the extent they are leading with honor and integrity, with the values and behaviors and all.
 I talk about illuminate, face it, follow, and fix it. One time, instead of getting out of the shower and running past the mirror, I stopped. I didn’t quite like what I saw, and I saw a guy who was 40-50 pounds overweight. I thought, My goodness. How dare I talk about illuminate if I don’t face it. I faced it. I am asking everyone, every leader, to face: Are you living in integrity? I followed it. I found out why I was gaining weight. I was having a glass of wine or two every night, and it brought my blood sugar down. I would eat anything that was there. There are sardines and chocolate syrup. Looks great! And then I’d go to sleep. I didn’t realize I was training to be an athlete. There is an athlete who drinks alcohol and eats a lot of food at night, and that athlete is called a sumo wrestler. I was training to be a sumo wrestler. I couldn’t be a leader of Illuminate and be that hypocritical. The fix it was to take small steps and make some transformation.
 I ask my leaders, my brothers and sisters who are leaders, to get serious. I walked into an association that has to do with diabetes, and I saw a big Coke machine there. I look at some of our organizations who are in the health industry, and they are not healthy. I did a lot of work with a company. I won’t tell you the name of it, but it rhymes with Schmaiser Permanente. They are talking about their model called Thrive. And I look at some of their employees, and they are out of integrity. I say, “Don’t talk about thrive. You are better off saying nothing. When I see the word ‘thrive’ and see people who are grossly unhealthy, I know you are hypocritical. I wonder where else you are cutting corners. I don’t like that.” Everything counts. Everything counts.
 I scan, I think, I feel. Maybe below the line of consciousness. But if it is not in integrity, I am not donating my time and my money to you. I am going to move on to someone who is. Any business, any organization, the leader must lead by example. When she falls down, she says, “Mea culpa. You know what. I fell down. I apologize for that. Here is my plan.”
 The feminization of business today is so important. Authenticity comes with that, and a lot of drive. When we have the character to say, “Whoops, I messed up, wow, that is a big difference,” that is leadership. Leadership is real. Vulnerability, authenticity, those are just words. They are being overused, but they are real. Get serious about that.
 Hugh: You are preaching our song. We preach that leadership is influence. We get to choose if we influence positively or negatively. Those are good parting words, but I am going to give you the chance to do a wish or thought or tip for people as we leave. I want to recognize that they can go to davidcorbin.com. David Corbin leaps over tall buildings. Do you really run a 5K every Sunday?
 David: Every Saturday when I am in town.
 Hugh: Wow. And you went to Woodstock? You know who else was there?
 David: My brother David Gruder.
 Hugh: Yes, he was at Woodstock. You and I are contemporaries. I am a little older than you are. I have never had anybody on this interview series take a sound bite from Rhapsody in Blue. He is a modern-day Renaissance man with many skills. David Corbin, you are indeed a blessing to a lot of people, but tonight, to Russ and me for sharing this great stuff with so many charities.
 As we are winding up this really powerful interview, David, what is a parting thought or tip you’d like to leave with these amazing leaders that are making such a difference in people’s lives?
 David: I would express my gratitude for their passion, for their hard work. It is difficult today. Service organizations, it seems as though they are being told to jump through hoops and then they make the hoops smaller and then they set the hoops on fire. It’s not easy. We need to attract people to volunteer and donate and work for our noble mission. Every morning, I wake up. My hands and knees are on the ground like our Muslim brothers, and I give thanks and gratitude every single morning. I want to give gratitude to those of you who are taking the rein and doing this amazing work, this social work. I thank you for that. I deeply hope that some of these ideas might help you be more effective, more efficient, and more joyous and confident in what you do. Thank you for what you do.
 Hugh: David Corbin, special words indeed. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with so many people. Your words will live on. Thanks so much for being with us.
 David: Thanks, brother.
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      <pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2017 14:18:41 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/84fac0be-b329-11eb-9f0f-1f6e87cb0b5c/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>David Corbin Discusses the Importance of Leadership and Integrity</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>David Corbin: Keynote Speaker, Business Adviser, President of Private and Public Corporations, Inventor, Mentor and pretty good guy…..David M. Corbin has been referred to as “Robin Williams with an MBA” because of his very practical, high relevant content speeches coupled with entertaining and sometimes side splitting stories. A former psychotherapist with a background in healthcare, he has served as management and leadership consultant to businesses and organizations of all sizes – from Fortune 20 companies to businesses with less than 1 million – and enjoys the challenges of all. He has worked directly with the Presidents of companies such as AT&amp;T, Hallmark, Sprint as well as the Hon.Secretary of Veterans Administration and others. http://davidcorbin.com
 Notes from the interview: Why is it important for nonprofits to be clear about their brand?
  You have a brand. If you don’t work at defining it, your audience will.
 You create an impression by your actions, intent does not stop that.
 Everything you do adds to the impression you create.
 Make believe you are always being observed and act accordingly.
 Audit your service by experiencing your deliverable. Would you do business with your organization?
  When working with people to build organization framework, when to we focus on brand promise? From the beginning.
  Why do we exist?
 Who do we serve?
 How do we want to be known?
 What do we really want?
 Who are we really?
  Everything we take on needs to fit who we are at the core!
 Do the Brand Audit right at the beginning(Before you deliver any services or approach anyone)! Team must be fully engaged all the way through.
 Quality and Clarity Determine Financial Results.
 Growth must start at an individual level for the organization to grow.
 People – The only completely renewable resource of any organization! (And the most valuable)
 Culture is a reflection of leadership!
 How Do Leaders Keep Our Internal and External Brands Fresh?
  Integrity – Living the values of the organization.
 Boss Watching – Biggest Sport!
 Model the behaviors the brand represents.
  Transformation consists of a series of small steps, often many of them! It starts with one in a row!
 Everything counts when it comes to integrity. Leader must lead by example.
 The Transcript
 NPC Interview with David Corbin
 Hugh Ballou: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. We are live with the Nonprofit Chat. Today, we have a guest who will bring energy to a lot of different topics tonight. David Corbin is a friend of ours. We have known each other for a number of years. This is the first time we have had a live interview, so welcome and thank you for being here.
 David Corbin: My pleasure. I’m happy to be a live interview. I hope the other ones weren’t dead. What are you trying to say, Hugh?
 Hugh: You’re a live one, man. I like guests to start out by telling people something interesting about yourself. Why do you do what you’re doing, and what is your background that gave you… The few times you and I have had some deep conversations, I have really been impressed by the depth and breadth of wisdom that you have on these topics that you talk about. Give us a little paragraph or two about David Corbin. Who are you, and what brought you to where you are today?
 David: Well, I’m a human being. I’m not a speaker. I’m not an author. I’m not a doctor. I’m a human being, and I play the role of a keynote speaker, inventor, and mentor. I am a guy who loves life. What can I say? If there is a way- As I did yesterday, I had a client fly out from Mexico. The objective overall was for him to be happy, healthy, prosperous, and the like. I am the guy who likes to do that and likes to be that as the extent I can continue to learn and grow. I do all of those things. As you know, you have been in my audience, and I have been in yours. I love to share ideas from a platform. I like to consult with corporations at the highest levels and then solopreneurs. I love to run my 5K every Saturday, and I love to play tennis. I love to hang out in my backyard. I look out there, and I have chickens running around and a turtle in the pool. Life is great.
 Hugh: You’re in San Diego, California.
 David: I am. Home of Tony Gwynn, the famous Padre. Today I was honored to be invited to the unveiling of his statue in our little town here. I was also with his family at Cooperstown at Baseball Hall of Fame as he was inducted with Cal Ripken. I am in southern California, San Diego. The town is called Poway.
 Hugh: Love it. The first time we met, we were in Lake Las Vegas, and you had just published Illuminate. You’re not an author, but you write some really profound stuff. You actually were in a suit and tie that day. What inspired you to write that book, and what is it about?
 David: I’ll tell you what it’s about. It’s about facing the reality of situations in our life and our business. You see, I have read the positive mental attitude literature, and I have had the honor of meeting Dr. Norman Vincent Peele and some of the luminaries in positive mental attitude. I am honored to be in the latest Think and Grow Rich book, Three Feet from Gold. Nowhere in that literature does it say ignore negative issues, that we should push them under the carpet as it were. I came to realize that my most successful clients were individuals who had the courage to face those issues, not just accentuate the positive as the song goes. But rather than eliminate the negative, I learned the key is to illuminate the negative in a model that I call “face it, follow it, and fix it.” That is what Illuminate is about.
 It came from the realization from practical experience, that whether it is a nonprofit, a for-profit, or a for-profit that doesn’t intend to be a nonprofit but ends up that way, no matter who it is, the individuals who have the courage and the character to face the problems head-on, that is what I found to be the greatest model, and hence the title of Illuminate: Harnessing the Positive Power of Negative Thinking.
 Hugh: What I can count on if we are having conversations is the words coming out of your mouth are not what I can expect from anyone else, because David Corbin is one of the most creative people I have ever met. I remember when we were introducing ourselves at CEO Space one time, one person said they were a consultant, and then you came along and said, “I am an insultant,” and I said, “I’m a resultant,” and your head went, Whoosh. At least one time I one-upped you.
 David: It’s on my website now. There is an asterisk at the bottom and says, “Maestro Hugh Ballou, genius extraordinaire.”
 Hugh: I am honored, David Corbin. I have not seen that. A resultant in a pipe organ is a pipe that is not as long. A sixteen-foot pipe has a certain pitch. They don’t have space, so they miter it, and the result is a lower tone from a shorter pipe. We actually create a bigger result without having to be bigger ourselves. We can amplify the sound by what we do. You and I, I love this Illuminate. Two weeks ago, I talked to David Dunworth, who is also an author. He has quoted you. We talked about that. You illuminate a lot of people you maybe don’t even know. It’s really how we amplify what other people do. I’m just energized by the fact that you’re here.
 You have another book that is new. You’ve written about brand slaughter. Is that the title?
 David: It is. I was just on the TV news this week talking about that. It was fun. The guy couldn’t get over the title.
 The concept is- People create their brand based upon their values and the brand promise out to the world. They put a check off and think they’re done. Don’t stop there. You’re either building your brand—you, your employees and everyone else in your organization—or killing it. Nothing is neutral. You are either engaged in brand integrity or engaged in what I call brand slaughter, just like manslaughter in the first, second, or third degree. We can read in the news that people are convicted of manslaughter, but you don’t often see people convicted of brand slaughter, except maybe in the case of United Airlines or Pricewaterhousecooper in front of 30 million people after 87 years of great service to the Oscars. I don’t know if it’s brand slaughter. I think they can recoup from that. However, United Airlines is going to have a hard time coming back from that brand slaughter, wouldn’t you agree?
 Hugh: I would. It’s one that got highlighted in a series of really dumb things the airline has done.
 We’re talking to passionate people who are providing amazing value but are limited by how people perceive us. I was talking to someone on a radio interview, and he said, “There is a charity in my area, but I quit giving because I really wasn’t sure what was happening.” That is part of our brand promise, who we are and what we stand for.
 David: That’s right. When we look at the organizations that part of our charter is to serve others in an amazing way, and there is no shortage of people in the giving field, those organizations are carrying a lot of weight for the society. They are making a promise out there. By and large, they are delivering. However, there are some actions and behaviors they either are taking or their management/leadership is taking or their front line people are taking—they are taking certain behaviors that are undermining the brand and the promise of the entire organization. It doesn’t have to be that way.
 Look, I have had great experiences on United Airlines. I truly have. I love Gershwin, so when I hear that music, it pus me in a wonderful state. I have met some wonderful people. They are not just a group of dirtbags. However, the one person who carries the credibility and reputation of the organization pulled down the asset value of the corporation, the reputation of the corporation, and created for great humor, “United Airlines put the hospital back in hospitality,” such that Southwest Airlines came out and said, “We beat our competition, not our customers.” That kind of stuff is just going to keep going because of one guy making one bad move.
 I want to tell the leaders, managers, supervisors, and individuals who are carrying the torch of these organizations to do what I teach in this book called an ABI, an Audit of Brand Integrity. Have every one of your employees take a sheet of paper and write down the values, write down the brand, and then write down the touchpoints they have on a daily basis with the individuals they are touching: a customer, a fellow employee, a vendor. Everyone who is carrying that brand, and that individual looks at their touchpoints and asks themselves, “How does the brand live that touchpoint?” What could I do, what might I do, what should I do, what ought I do to really boost that brand?
 If the organization, let’s say United Airlines because we are picking on them, but I can tell you two of them I experienced today alone. But I focus in on that one. If the CEO said, “Folks, this is our brand. We are doing a brand audit. After you do that audit, come back and tell us examples of how that brand is to live in your head. Maybe even tell us some examples of what you have observed in our organization when we have committed brand slaughter.” There is a statute of limitations. Nobody is going to get busted. But it helps us to see how the brand is alive and well and being fed and nurtured and supported, and on the other side, by the law of contrast, we can see where we have fallen down so we don’t fall down that hole again. That would be an amazing solution.
 I implore everyone who is listening, whether you are running a nonprofit or not—maybe you are going to at some point but now you are a parent or a neighbor or a member of a church or synagogue—and ask yourself: What is your brand? How are you living that brand? I think when we get serious about this, we can’t solve everything we face, but we can solve anything unless we face it. This is a way of facing the opportunity of building your brand asset value. I sound like a politician. I am David Corbin, and I endorse that message.
 Hugh: That’s right. Your passion is contagious. Our friend from Hawaii, Eve Hogan, is watching on Facebook. We have a lot of people that we know.
 David, there are four million 501(c) somethings. There are 10’s, 6’s, 3’s, and government organizations. There are all kinds of tax-exempt organizations. They are charities; they are social benefit organizations. Russell and I are on the campaign to eliminate the word nonprofit. Rather than defining ourselves by what we’re not, which is not correct either—we do need to make a profit to make things happen—we are social benefit organizations. We leverage intellectual property. We leverage passion. We leverage the good works and products we have for the benefit of humankind.
 These nongovernmental organizations that we represent have a bigger job and more important job today than ever before. There is real confusion on the whole branding thing. I want to back up a minute to a question posted a few minutes ago. How can nonprofits eliminate their brand? But I think it’s important for them to know why they even need a brand and why it is important to be clear about the brand. It’s true for any organization, but we are talking to nonprofits. The reason we have top-level business leaders like you on this series is we need to understand good, sound business principles to install into these organizations that we lead. Why is branding important? How do we illuminate that into the communities that want to support us but need that information?
 David: Let’s just say this. Whether you like it or not, you have a brand. Whether you know it or not, you have a brand. These scanners- I have a scanner over there. It’s a Hewlett Packard. It doesn’t compare to these scanners. *points to eyes* I have a computer that we’re working through. It doesn’t compare to this computer .*points to brain* Everyone is walking around with these scanners and this computer, and everything counts. Whether you acknowledge it or not, you are creating an impression from the eye to the brain to the heart to the soul of who you are and what you’re doing, whether you believe in it or not. I don’t know if you believe in gravity or not, but if you walk off of any building in any town of any city, you are going down. It’s an immutable fact.
 Now, thank you for the concept of the not-for-profit. Why talk about what we’re not? That was brilliant. You open up my thinking. I thank you for that.
 I want to let all of my service providers know that everything that you do is creating an impression, whether you believe in it or not. Could you imagine if I came out and said, “I want to talk about hygiene and important it is?” *while sniffling and rubbing his nose and eyes* That would be absurd. I happen to have a 501(c)3 for anti-bullying called Anti Bullying Leadership Experience. Everything that we do is going to be carrying our mojo of the anti-bullying. Could you imagine if I started yelling at one of my vendors and pouncing on them and playing a power trip with them? That would be the antithesis of everything.
 The point I want to make is make believe that you are on the stage of a microscope and you are being observed in everything that you are doing because you are. And as soon as the leaders know that, they will start looking at things differently. You drive up to the parking lot, see what the front door looks like, see how you are greeted, and you are watching everything that is going on. God is my judge, I must tell you.
 Hugh, you know I am putting together a little wedding party for my daughter. I was at two places today, one of which the woman didn’t show up to the appointment, and she needed to call me back, and she didn’t later. One was a very famous place called L’Auberge Del Mar. It’s five-star. When I called to make a room reservation there, I was there for seven and a half minutes before I even found someone. I eventually called the manager who called me back. I said, “I’m going to give you a gift. I would like you to call and try to make a room reservation and get the experience of what that’s like.” She did. She called me back and goes, “My goodness, Mr. Corbin. I had no idea.”
 We need to audit all of these activities. Our service organizations, which do not have an unlimited budget that a lot of corporations might have today, must be efficient, must be effective. The best consultation you can get is from yourself experiencing your deliverables and that which it is you are bringing to the market. I just think that we don’t have a lot of wiggle room for error.
 There is a wonderful book by Andy Grove who started a little company called Intel. You probably haven’t heard of it. Andy wrote a book called Only the Paranoid Survive. I don’t think he is suggesting that we walk around paranoid. I think he is suggesting a strong and deep introspection into what we are doing and how we are doing it. I want to punch that home. Please, please for the benefit of all whom you are serving and whom you could serve in the future, take this message seriously. Know that you have a brand. Live that brand. Make sure that everyone in your auspices know how they live that brand.
 Hugh: Those are wise words. Mr. Russell Dennis is capturing sound bites. He is very good at picking out things, and you have given him a lot of fresh meat today.
 David, you work with a variety of different kinds of clients, some of whom you and I both know. When you are working with them on building out the whole framework of the organization they are launching and growing, at what point do you hone in on this brand image, brand promise, brand identity? At what point in this process do you focus on that aspect?
 David: I believe strongly with begin in the end in mind. It’s more than rhetoric. If you are a service organization, really ask the penetrating questions. 1) Why do we exist, and do we need to exist? 2) Who do we serve, and how do we serve them? 3) How do we want to be known? 4) What do we want somebody to yell over to the fence to their neighbor about our organization? When you have that, you work backwards from that. Business planning takes the existing business and carries it out into the future, but strategic planning envisions the future and works backwards from there. I take a deep dive of visualization. Actually, as you know, I am a graduate of Woodstock. I was there in 1969. So I can say not just visualization, but hallucination. I can really hallucinate on those questions.
 I just was in front of an audience in Atlanta and said, “What do you want? What do you really want?” I say that to businesses as I do strategic planning. Who are you? Who are you really? Then you know all of that. That is when you contemplate for your brand promise and the reputation that you want to earn because you can’t demand it. Then when you do that, you get the confidence to move forward. You now have the gristmill, and everything must go through that. How does it go against our brand? Should we do that? Great, tell us how it fits into our brand. When someone does something that is off-target, how did that dent our brand, and what can we do to prevent that from happening again?
 In direct answer to your question, do this brand audit right form the get-go. I promise you not only does it give individuals a sense of ownership, but it gives them a sense of confidence because nobody wants to mess it up. In Europe, they take it down to the bottom line. When you ding the brand, you are actually pilfering money from the organization. Isn’t that something? Imagine if we really own the brand. No one changes the oil when we rent a car because they don’t have ownership. When people know what the brand is in their hands, they take ownership. What happens is when you collaborate with your people, you breed creativity and commitment. Now they are engaged, they are enrolled. Nothing can stop a service organization with passionate, engaged people. That is why I plug what you’re doing, Hugh.
 Hugh: Thank you for that, David. That is such a vivid description of how we can upgrade our performance and upgrade the performance of the organization that we have a huge responsibility for as the leader. Perceiving ourselves as the leader doesn’t mean we have to do everything. It does mean we need to be involved in the grassroots of what is going on so we can know what is actually happening. And what you talked about brings to mind that we build relationship with others in the organization. To me, that is the foundation of leadership, and it is also the foundation of communications. You gave the gift to the hotel manager that she didn’t have because she was too busy doing the top-level things to get into the minutiae and figure out, Whoa, how do we look to the public? You could go to any big company in America and help them do an audit, and it would bring them immense value, probably within the first 30 seconds of your conversation.
 Part of what you described is part of this word that you have used, which is such a brilliant framing of how we- Everybody in Synervision is a leader. We lead from different perspectives, and we impact everybody else in the organization. We also represent the brand. We don’t know who is going to go wild, like United Airlines. That was such a terrible thing for everybody, but it highlighted an underlying problem. Brand slaughter was what brought it to the fore. I bet that cost United a whole lot of money so far, not to mention future business.
 Let’s take it back to the charities. We are doing work that impacts people’s lives, sometimes saving people from drug addition or suicide or insanity. There are a lot of worthy things we are doing. We have elements going on that kill the brand. I love it when you talk about this brand slaughter thing. I’d like to put it back into context in what we’re doing with this world of charities and how we need to contain this brand and empower our tribes to represent the brand and not be guilty of brand slaughter. Give us a little more food for thought, especially for charities. I work with churches, synagogues, community foundations, semi-government agencies. I find there is a similarity with everybody, that we are not aware of how the culture is represented by the people, and that brand slaughter is committed in minor ways, but also in bigger ways.
 I am going to shut up now and let you talk about brand slaughter and why that is so crucial for our charities.
 David: I look at it this way. I believe that the financial results of any organization is largely dependent on the quality of its people and the clarity of its people. Be it a service organization or otherwise, I believe everyone in the organization should create a circle. I don’t mean hands holding. I mean draw a circle, a wheel with a hub and spokes. Every one of those spokes is an essential core job function for that person. If it’s a leader, we know some of the spokes are delegation, communication, strategic thinking, and financial management. Those are all spokes. Whatever the position is, if you’re an operating room nurse or a development manager for a service organization, you create that wheel and look at the spokes. When you do, you start rating yourself on those spokes. The hub means you’re terrible. Outside at the end is a number ten. That is mastery. You get real serious with whoever you are, whatever your job is, and rate yourself on a scale of zero to ten. Where you are an eight or nine, great, pat yourself on the back. That is really cool. But don’t stop there. Unfortunately, Americans tend to stop at the immediate gratification. Look at what I’m doing great. We say no. Focus in on the threes, fours, and fives. Set a goal to a six, eight, and nine, and close those gaps.
 I say that to my brothers and sisters who work in the serious world of service delivery. I mean what we would call service providers and not-for-profits or whatever you want to call them. When you get serious, and you rate yourself on a scale of one to ten in those areas, and you start closing those gaps, magic happens. You know what the magic is? You start building a momentum of growing yourself. You can’t grow an organization unless the individuals are growing themselves.
 You show me an organization that does what I’m talking about: closing the gaps, setting personal goals, and getting more efficient and effective in what they do. I don’t care if their building burns down; they could accomplish their mission in a tent. They could do it with dirt floors. They could do it anywhere. The saying is, “Wherever two or more people are gathered in His name, there is love.” Let me tell you.
 Whenever you have a leadership team and a management team that talks about building their people, the only renewable asset in an organization, no matter what happens, they will win. Every one of the employees increases their asset value. You invoke the law of control. People feel good about themselves in the extent they are moving in the direction of destiny. Their confidence goes up. Their competence goes up. People talk about going down the rabbit hole. Now you are going up this amazing spire into success, achievement, productivity, confidence, peace of mind, and self-esteem. I am passionate about that because I have seen it work. I help it work. I live it myself. I couldn’t talk about it if I didn’t live it, or else that would be a form of brand slaughter.
 Hugh: I can validate that. You live out the David Corbin brand. You illuminate the brand. Or you don’t do it. You are very serious about being spot-on. You show up fully present.
 I have been doing the German ice cream thing. I am being Häagen-Dazs Mike. Russell, do you have a comment or a question for our guest tonight?
 Russell Dennis: It’s a lot easier to tear a brand apart than it is to put it together. Look at United. Those guys have been around forever and a day. And in the space of a day, they have torn the whole thing down and trashed a lot of good wealth. It’s very easy. Brand is about- it goes beyond a logo. People think of a logo when they think of a brand. It’s not the logo; it’s what is behind the logo that symbolizes something. I am going to pull a definition out of a book that a very wise man wrote, “The brand as is a tangible expression of top-performing culture comes to life when the elements including the mission are taken off the wall and put into daily action at all levels and through all individuals in the organization.” That is a big mouthful.
 Hugh: Who is the wise person that wrote that?
 Russ: Just some guy who is sitting around while we chat.
 Hugh: David Corbin wrote that.
 Russ: Brand slaughter, to me, is the ultimate thing. To say this is what we stand for and do something completely different. I think there are some people out there who are scrutinizing and are waiting for somebody to make a mistake. I have seen people do that. You run into those folks in a supermarket. People don’t intentionally set out to fail, but it happens. These are things that are talked about in the Core Steps to Building a Nonprofit course. When it’s building that foundation, they could lay all those things out.
 The time to figure out your brand is right at the outset. Who do we serve? What is in our wheelhouse? What do we have? What are we weak at? Where are our gaps? I think you have to hammer those strengths and work with them, but when you have a gap, that is where your recruiting starts. You recruit your advisors, you recruit your board. Or you look for collaborative partners. But you find a way to do it that will stay because everything rides on it. You have to have it all in place. You have to have a solid foundation to start making those plans and do the things that you want to do first. What are we going to do first? There is a big vision.
 I have been working with Sue Lee. We had a great conversation yesterday. I have also been working with Dennis Cole on his foundation. We are looking at some potential sponsors. We have got some things that we are going to be doing really soon that are interesting, but we are ready to break out and go out there and be a service to people by telling them they don’t have to succumb to any bad circumstances they have because of an injury or major illness. You can work around that. The whole brand is about living that and walking that walk. These are pretty courageous young men I am proud to be helping.
 Hugh: Part of that course where you talked about- David, Russell is helping people bring in revenue to their so-called nonprofits/charities. There is a relevance. Russ, I’d like to get David weigh in on the relevance of this branding and attracting revenue, the income that we really need that is the profit that runs our charity. Russell, I’ll bring it back to you in a minute, but you had illuminated some things that I wanted to get David to weigh in on. There is a monetary equivalent to the integrity in our brand that you talked about earlier.
 David: Yeah. Just as in the strategic planning you are asking yourself who are we serving and why are we serving and how are we serving, when you look at the individuals you are appealing to in business development, you say, “Hey, contribute to us. Support us.” When we are looking at that, we then need to reverse-engineer that.
 That is what I do in my visualization/hallucination. Why are they contributing? What have they contributed to before? What are they contributing to? What is going to make them feel good? How do they know they are contributing to the right organization after they contribute so they might want to contribute again? When you contemplate the psychology of that, much like you look into why people invest into businesses, you think about those donors. Then you know that the emotional connection-
 You guys have heard me talk about the mojo factor or the God only knows factor. Why are you contributing to them year after year? God only knows. Would you consider not contributing to them or contributing to someone else? Absolutely not. Why? God only knows. They are not sure what that emotional connection is, but you know the emotional connection.
 In my case, with the anti-bullying, we are looking at the ramifications of some of these young souls who have been bullied and how it impacts their lives. Individuals who are donating to that might have experienced some bullying before and know the pain they went through, as well as the imaginations throughout their life. We know that now, so we know what the mojo factor is to get that individual to know who we are, what we do, and how and why they might want to invest.
 When that becomes our brand, when they can see it and feel it and taste it and touch it, which it to say there is energy between what we are doing and what we are saying, from the logo and the color and the actions and our behaviors and our sounds, then when we have that going on, we have this awesome connection.
 Years ago, some of us are old enough to know about Ma Bell. Remember Ma Bell? And then a company came in called Sprint and they wanted to break that God only knows connection, that amazing connection between Ma Bell. Sprint came in and said. It was MCI. They said, “We are going to beat the price,” and Ma Bell came out and said, “Oh yeah? Make them put it in writing.” Ma Bell, you don’t talk like that. Ma? They broke that bond, you see. That is just an example of breaking a bond.
 When it comes to our organizations who are listening today, the bond is that promise. The two great things that my friend Russell just discussed are 1) it’s a lot easier to kill a brand than to build a brand. That is so true. And secondly, among other things Russell shared, there are some people out there who are looking for you to mess up. There is an individual looking for the rabbi to have a ham sandwich. There is an individual who is looking for the such-and-such the wrong way. They are looking for that. Why? Because it is easier to find the fault in others than to take the personal responsibility to build themselves. So when you know that, don’t be paranoid. But be a little paranoid and know they are watching you. Not only are people scanning you from a neutral point of view, and those scanning you from a positive point of view, but there are also those naysayers who are looking for you to be hypocritical. They are looking for you to mess up. That is when I say have everybody lockstep in knowing what is our promise and behaving that way. You can’t go after fund development and not be the brand, or you are wasting your time.
 Hugh: Whoa. So Russell, I have interrupted you. Were you formulating a question? We are two thirds of the way through our interview, and we are getting into the nitty-gritty. Did you have a really hard question to stump our guest with tonight?
 Russ: There is no stumping David. It just follows in with what I was saying. The fourth step of building a high-performance nonprofit is to be able to communicate that value that you bring to everybody you come into contact with. You have people that work in the organization. You have donors. You have people who get your services. You need to know how to do it with everyone. With people who are working with you internally, you have to set an expectation so people know exactly what they are signing up for. Understand that you are not everybody’s flavor, but you are some people’s flavor.
 When you talk to organizations or donors or people who are going to support you, here is the reality of anything you undertake: There is going to be some risk associated. If you walk in and tell them, “Everything is going to be peachy,” when you are in the service mind-frame or an entrepreneur, we can be hopeless optimists a lot of times. It has been my experience that a lot of things take twice the money, time, and effort they are going to take because we go in with those good intentions. We have to be fully transparent, especially if we discover we have some problems or snags implementing the project. The time to talk about that is as soon as you discover it and look at it and say, “Well, we may not be where we quite want to be.” Up front, transparent. Illuminate as David has talked about. That is a book that is on my shelf. I love that book. I read the thing in one sitting.
 A lot of people want to cover up. Or human egos want to make us look good. When we are in the business of trying to help people with some serious societal problems, you have to get the ego out of the way. That is hard to do. It makes it difficult to get organizations to collaborate or talk to one another. I have seen a lot of that, too. My philosophy is that you can get a hell of a lot done if you are not hung up on who gets the credit. It is an uphill climb often, but I think the landscape is changing a little bit. People are going into business with a socially benefited mind. They create business structures like the LLC and the B-corp and the benefit corporations. We are seeing a lot of these social enterprises crop up. People can not only make a profit but can also do some good. It’s all about doing some good, but there are certain things we have to look at. It has to be run efficiently and effectively, but it doesn’t matter what your tax stamp says.
 Hugh: There is a comment on Twitter: “Doing what you love, loving whom you serve, believing that your nonprofit is vital. I knew too many whose hearts aren’t in…” That’s interesting.
 David, do you want to respond to Russ before we go to the final set of questions here?
 David: Well, a couple things that come to mind. Something that you had said earlier, Hugh, and something that Russell just said. I’ll start with Russell. Yes, you need to face the issue. Face a lot of issues. Look at what happened. Happily, there will be lemonade coming out of this lemon on the United Airlines. Not for that doctor, but he will get a huge settlement. That is not what he wanted. I think the industry is shifting now. I read somewhere that Southwest Airlines has changed their model around overselling seats. Sometimes it takes this type of situation for people to learn, and then they shift. A lot of people don’t really appreciate their life or family until God forbid maybe a near-death experience, and that is what wakes them up. I say practice safety in driving before then, don’t wait for a near-death experience.
 Start contemplating for the potential issues or challenges that might happen in your organization before it happens. That is the part of roleplaying what could/might happen. What could possibly happen in this situation? Those are the types of things. Don’t be a negative nelly. Don’t get me wrong. The government has something called Sarbanes-Oxley that says the corporation has the fiduciary responsibility to anticipate, predict, and prepare for a natural disaster. It makes good sense. You don’t have to mandate that to me as a business owner. Of course, if I am manufacturing a car, I want to make sure that if the person who creates my rearview mirrors goes down, I am still going to be able to meet the needs of my organization, my shareholders, my staff, my employees. Of course I am going to do that. I don’t need regulation. For crying out loud, I don’t even need the Americans with Disabilities Act, which is to provide reasonable accommodations for people with disabilities. For crying out loud, that is just good sense. It is just good sense. Plus it is the right thing to do. But be that as it may, we need to face the issue before it happens. Oh by the way, be prepared for facing the issue after it happens.
 So Mr. President of United Airlines, anticipate if a problem goes down how you are going to handle it. Don’t say he was only following procedure. There was a guy in Nazi Germany who used to say that, too. I was just following procedure. I hate to make an extreme example, but I make a point following procedure. Following procedure, pulling a guy off, breaking his teeth. Come on. To say that is just ridiculous.
 What Pricewaterhouse did after they had a big brouhaha in front of 33 million people, they had 87 years of doing the job really well. What happened after that is they came back and apologized. They said Mea culpa. Just like the Japanese corporate executives did if a plane goes down, they resign. They take personal responsibility. But what Pricewaterhouse did is they said: It was our responsibility, and we apologize. We are looking into it. We want to congratulate those people on camera, including Jimmy Kimmel, for handling it elegantly. Even bringing a little humor into it. We apologize from the bottom of our hearts—I am paraphrasing here—and we will get to the bottom of this. We will let you know what happens so it never happens again. You see, that ding wasn’t brand slaughter. It was kind of like getting a ticket for tinted windows or a light being out. I believe we are going to forgive them after a while, but it will be hard to forgive United Airlines after they issued responsibility and took that cheap ticket out.
 I’m piggybacking off some of the comments you made earlier. I think it’s an important point. Anticipate what can go wrong. It doesn’t require legislation for that; it requires common sense. Then practice. Practice so it comes out naturally. Sir Lawrence Olivier said the key to acting is spontaneity, which is the result of long, hard, tedious practice. I say practice.
 Hugh: I could hear you talk all night, David. I think people would be with us this long. There are people listening to you with lots of focus.
 We could all reframe our own leadership. The question we threw out for people to think about is from the leadership position. My forty years of conducting, I know that what the orchestra and the choir sees is what I get. The culture is a reflection of our leadership. Representing the brand internally helps them represent the brand externally. My question to you is, in this whole spirit of illuminating- I don’t know about you, but I find some leaders who have more blind spots than awareness on the impact they are having on the brand externally and internally. You can do your own inventory, but I don’t think we can. We need to illuminate with some outside, impartial person asking us the right questions. David, how can a leader, especially one that has been in a position for a while, keep it fresh and illuminate our own representation of our brand internally and externally?
 David: I think it’s about integrity. Integrity is a powerful word. It’s thrown around. But integrity, the leader living the values of the business. I can’t ask you to do what I’m not willing to do. They say one of the biggest sports in life is soccer, but I don’t think that’s true. I think the biggest sport in life is boss-watching. Seriously. I really think that. They set the culture. They set the pace. To the extent they are leading with honor and integrity, with the values and behaviors and all.
 I talk about illuminate, face it, follow, and fix it. One time, instead of getting out of the shower and running past the mirror, I stopped. I didn’t quite like what I saw, and I saw a guy who was 40-50 pounds overweight. I thought, My goodness. How dare I talk about illuminate if I don’t face it. I faced it. I am asking everyone, every leader, to face: Are you living in integrity? I followed it. I found out why I was gaining weight. I was having a glass of wine or two every night, and it brought my blood sugar down. I would eat anything that was there. There are sardines and chocolate syrup. Looks great! And then I’d go to sleep. I didn’t realize I was training to be an athlete. There is an athlete who drinks alcohol and eats a lot of food at night, and that athlete is called a sumo wrestler. I was training to be a sumo wrestler. I couldn’t be a leader of Illuminate and be that hypocritical. The fix it was to take small steps and make some transformation.
 I ask my leaders, my brothers and sisters who are leaders, to get serious. I walked into an association that has to do with diabetes, and I saw a big Coke machine there. I look at some of our organizations who are in the health industry, and they are not healthy. I did a lot of work with a company. I won’t tell you the name of it, but it rhymes with Schmaiser Permanente. They are talking about their model called Thrive. And I look at some of their employees, and they are out of integrity. I say, “Don’t talk about thrive. You are better off saying nothing. When I see the word ‘thrive’ and see people who are grossly unhealthy, I know you are hypocritical. I wonder where else you are cutting corners. I don’t like that.” Everything counts. Everything counts.
 I scan, I think, I feel. Maybe below the line of consciousness. But if it is not in integrity, I am not donating my time and my money to you. I am going to move on to someone who is. Any business, any organization, the leader must lead by example. When she falls down, she says, “Mea culpa. You know what. I fell down. I apologize for that. Here is my plan.”
 The feminization of business today is so important. Authenticity comes with that, and a lot of drive. When we have the character to say, “Whoops, I messed up, wow, that is a big difference,” that is leadership. Leadership is real. Vulnerability, authenticity, those are just words. They are being overused, but they are real. Get serious about that.
 Hugh: You are preaching our song. We preach that leadership is influence. We get to choose if we influence positively or negatively. Those are good parting words, but I am going to give you the chance to do a wish or thought or tip for people as we leave. I want to recognize that they can go to davidcorbin.com. David Corbin leaps over tall buildings. Do you really run a 5K every Sunday?
 David: Every Saturday when I am in town.
 Hugh: Wow. And you went to Woodstock? You know who else was there?
 David: My brother David Gruder.
 Hugh: Yes, he was at Woodstock. You and I are contemporaries. I am a little older than you are. I have never had anybody on this interview series take a sound bite from Rhapsody in Blue. He is a modern-day Renaissance man with many skills. David Corbin, you are indeed a blessing to a lot of people, but tonight, to Russ and me for sharing this great stuff with so many charities.
 As we are winding up this really powerful interview, David, what is a parting thought or tip you’d like to leave with these amazing leaders that are making such a difference in people’s lives?
 David: I would express my gratitude for their passion, for their hard work. It is difficult today. Service organizations, it seems as though they are being told to jump through hoops and then they make the hoops smaller and then they set the hoops on fire. It’s not easy. We need to attract people to volunteer and donate and work for our noble mission. Every morning, I wake up. My hands and knees are on the ground like our Muslim brothers, and I give thanks and gratitude every single morning. I want to give gratitude to those of you who are taking the rein and doing this amazing work, this social work. I thank you for that. I deeply hope that some of these ideas might help you be more effective, more efficient, and more joyous and confident in what you do. Thank you for what you do.
 Hugh: David Corbin, special words indeed. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with so many people. Your words will live on. Thanks so much for being with us.
 David: Thanks, brother.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>David Corbin: </strong>Keynote Speaker, Business Adviser, President of Private and Public Corporations, Inventor, Mentor and pretty good guy…..David M. Corbin has been referred to as “Robin Williams with an MBA” because of his very practical, high relevant content speeches coupled with entertaining and sometimes side splitting stories. A former psychotherapist with a background in healthcare, he has served as management and leadership consultant to businesses and organizations of all sizes – from Fortune 20 companies to businesses with less than 1 million – and enjoys the challenges of all. He has worked directly with the Presidents of companies such as AT&amp;T, Hallmark, Sprint as well as the Hon.Secretary of Veterans Administration and others. <a href="http://davidcorbin.com/">http://davidcorbin.com</a></p> Notes from the interview: <p>Why is it important for nonprofits to be clear about their brand?</p> <ol> <li>You have a brand. If you don’t work at defining it, your audience will.</li> <li>You create an impression by your actions, intent does not stop that.</li> <li>Everything you do adds to the impression you create.</li> <li>Make believe you are always being observed and act accordingly.</li> <li>Audit your service by experiencing your deliverable. Would you do business with your organization?</li> </ol> <p>When working with people to build organization framework, when to we focus on brand promise? From the beginning.</p> <ol> <li>Why do we exist?</li> <li>Who do we serve?</li> <li>How do we want to be known?</li> <li>What do we really want?</li> <li>Who are we really?</li> </ol> <p>Everything we take on needs to fit who we are at the core!</p> <p>Do the Brand Audit right at the beginning(Before you deliver any services or approach anyone)! Team must be fully engaged all the way through.</p> <p>Quality and Clarity Determine Financial Results.</p> <p>Growth must start at an individual level for the organization to grow.</p> <p>People – The only completely renewable resource of any organization! (And the most valuable)</p> <p>Culture is a reflection of leadership!</p> <p>How Do Leaders Keep Our Internal and External Brands Fresh?</p> <ol> <li>Integrity – Living the values of the organization.</li> <li>Boss Watching – Biggest Sport!</li> <li>Model the behaviors the brand represents.</li> </ol> <p>Transformation consists of a series of small steps, often many of them! It starts with one in a row!</p> <p>Everything counts when it comes to integrity. Leader must lead by example.</p> <p><strong>The Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>NPC Interview with David Corbin</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh Ballou:</strong> Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. We are live with the Nonprofit Chat. Today, we have a guest who will bring energy to a lot of different topics tonight. David Corbin is a friend of ours. We have known each other for a number of years. This is the first time we have had a live interview, so welcome and thank you for being here.</p> <p><strong>David Corbin:</strong> My pleasure. I’m happy to be a live interview. I hope the other ones weren’t dead. What are you trying to say, Hugh?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re a live one, man. I like guests to start out by telling people something interesting about yourself. Why do you do what you’re doing, and what is your background that gave you… The few times you and I have had some deep conversations, I have really been impressed by the depth and breadth of wisdom that you have on these topics that you talk about. Give us a little paragraph or two about David Corbin. Who are you, and what brought you to where you are today?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> Well, I’m a human being. I’m not a speaker. I’m not an author. I’m not a doctor. I’m a human being, and I play the role of a keynote speaker, inventor, and mentor. I am a guy who loves life. What can I say? If there is a way- As I did yesterday, I had a client fly out from Mexico. The objective overall was for him to be happy, healthy, prosperous, and the like. I am the guy who likes to do that and likes to be that as the extent I can continue to learn and grow. I do all of those things. As you know, you have been in my audience, and I have been in yours. I love to share ideas from a platform. I like to consult with corporations at the highest levels and then solopreneurs. I love to run my 5K every Saturday, and I love to play tennis. I love to hang out in my backyard. I look out there, and I have chickens running around and a turtle in the pool. Life is great.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You’re in San Diego, California.</p> <p><strong>David</strong>: I am. Home of Tony Gwynn, the famous Padre. Today I was honored to be invited to the unveiling of his statue in our little town here. I was also with his family at Cooperstown at Baseball Hall of Fame as he was inducted with Cal Ripken. I am in southern California, San Diego. The town is called Poway.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Love it. The first time we met, we were in Lake Las Vegas, and you had just published <em>Illuminate.</em> You’re not an author, but you write some really profound stuff. You actually were in a suit and tie that day. What inspired you to write that book, and what is it about?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> I’ll tell you what it’s about. It’s about facing the reality of situations in our life and our business. You see, I have read the positive mental attitude literature, and I have had the honor of meeting Dr. Norman Vincent Peele and some of the luminaries in positive mental attitude. I am honored to be in the latest <em>Think and Grow Rich</em> book, <em>Three Feet from Gold.</em> Nowhere in that literature does it say ignore negative issues, that we should push them under the carpet as it were. I came to realize that my most successful clients were individuals who had the courage to face those issues, not just accentuate the positive as the song goes. But rather than eliminate the negative, I learned the key is to illuminate the negative in a model that I call “face it, follow it, and fix it.” That is what <em>Illuminate is about.</em></p> <p>It came from the realization from practical experience, that whether it is a nonprofit, a for-profit, or a for-profit that doesn’t intend to be a nonprofit but ends up that way, no matter who it is, the individuals who have the courage and the character to face the problems head-on, that is what I found to be the greatest model, and hence the title of <em>Illuminate: Harnessing the Positive Power of Negative Thinking.</em></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What I can count on if we are having conversations is the words coming out of your mouth are not what I can expect from anyone else, because David Corbin is one of the most creative people I have ever met. I remember when we were introducing ourselves at CEO Space one time, one person said they were a consultant, and then you came along and said, “I am an insultant,” and I said, “I’m a resultant,” and your head went, Whoosh. At least one time I one-upped you.</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> It’s on my website now. There is an asterisk at the bottom and says, “Maestro Hugh Ballou, genius extraordinaire.”</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I am honored, David Corbin. I have not seen that. A resultant in a pipe organ is a pipe that is not as long. A sixteen-foot pipe has a certain pitch. They don’t have space, so they miter it, and the result is a lower tone from a shorter pipe. We actually create a bigger result without having to be bigger ourselves. We can amplify the sound by what we do. You and I, I love this Illuminate. Two weeks ago, I talked to David Dunworth, who is also an author. He has quoted you. We talked about that. You illuminate a lot of people you maybe don’t even know. It’s really how we amplify what other people do. I’m just energized by the fact that you’re here.</p> <p>You have another book that is new. You’ve written about brand slaughter. Is that the title?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> It is. I was just on the TV news this week talking about that. It was fun. The guy couldn’t get over the title.</p> <p>The concept is- People create their brand based upon their values and the brand promise out to the world. They put a check off and think they’re done. Don’t stop there. You’re either building your brand—you, your employees and everyone else in your organization—or killing it. Nothing is neutral. You are either engaged in brand integrity or engaged in what I call brand slaughter, just like manslaughter in the first, second, or third degree. We can read in the news that people are convicted of manslaughter, but you don’t often see people convicted of brand slaughter, except maybe in the case of United Airlines or Pricewaterhousecooper in front of 30 million people after 87 years of great service to the Oscars. I don’t know if it’s brand slaughter. I think they can recoup from that. However, United Airlines is going to have a hard time coming back from that brand slaughter, wouldn’t you agree?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I would. It’s one that got highlighted in a series of really dumb things the airline has done.</p> <p>We’re talking to passionate people who are providing amazing value but are limited by how people perceive us. I was talking to someone on a radio interview, and he said, “There is a charity in my area, but I quit giving because I really wasn’t sure what was happening.” That is part of our brand promise, who we are and what we stand for.</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> That’s right. When we look at the organizations that part of our charter is to serve others in an amazing way, and there is no shortage of people in the giving field, those organizations are carrying a lot of weight for the society. They are making a promise out there. By and large, they are delivering. However, there are some actions and behaviors they either are taking or their management/leadership is taking or their front line people are taking—they are taking certain behaviors that are undermining the brand and the promise of the entire organization. It doesn’t have to be that way.</p> <p>Look, I have had great experiences on United Airlines. I truly have. I love Gershwin, so when I hear that music, it pus me in a wonderful state. I have met some wonderful people. They are not just a group of dirtbags. However, the one person who carries the credibility and reputation of the organization pulled down the asset value of the corporation, the reputation of the corporation, and created for great humor, “United Airlines put the hospital back in hospitality,” such that Southwest Airlines came out and said, “We beat our competition, not our customers.” That kind of stuff is just going to keep going because of one guy making one bad move.</p> <p>I want to tell the leaders, managers, supervisors, and individuals who are carrying the torch of these organizations to do what I teach in this book called an ABI, an Audit of Brand Integrity. Have every one of your employees take a sheet of paper and write down the values, write down the brand, and then write down the touchpoints they have on a daily basis with the individuals they are touching: a customer, a fellow employee, a vendor. Everyone who is carrying that brand, and that individual looks at their touchpoints and asks themselves, “How does the brand live that touchpoint?” What could I do, what might I do, what should I do, what ought I do to really boost that brand?</p> <p>If the organization, let’s say United Airlines because we are picking on them, but I can tell you two of them I experienced today alone. But I focus in on that one. If the CEO said, “Folks, this is our brand. We are doing a brand audit. After you do that audit, come back and tell us examples of how that brand is to live in your head. Maybe even tell us some examples of what you have observed in our organization when we have committed brand slaughter.” There is a statute of limitations. Nobody is going to get busted. But it helps us to see how the brand is alive and well and being fed and nurtured and supported, and on the other side, by the law of contrast, we can see where we have fallen down so we don’t fall down that hole again. That would be an amazing solution.</p> <p>I implore everyone who is listening, whether you are running a nonprofit or not—maybe you are going to at some point but now you are a parent or a neighbor or a member of a church or synagogue—and ask yourself: What is your brand? How are you living that brand? I think when we get serious about this, we can’t solve everything we face, but we can solve anything unless we face it. This is a way of facing the opportunity of building your brand asset value. I sound like a politician. I am David Corbin, and I endorse that message.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s right. Your passion is contagious. Our friend from Hawaii, Eve Hogan, is watching on Facebook. We have a lot of people that we know.</p> <p>David, there are four million 501(c) somethings. There are 10’s, 6’s, 3’s, and government organizations. There are all kinds of tax-exempt organizations. They are charities; they are social benefit organizations. Russell and I are on the campaign to eliminate the word nonprofit. Rather than defining ourselves by what we’re not, which is not correct either—we do need to make a profit to make things happen—we are social benefit organizations. We leverage intellectual property. We leverage passion. We leverage the good works and products we have for the benefit of humankind.</p> <p>These nongovernmental organizations that we represent have a bigger job and more important job today than ever before. There is real confusion on the whole branding thing. I want to back up a minute to a question posted a few minutes ago. How can nonprofits eliminate their brand? But I think it’s important for them to know why they even need a brand and why it is important to be clear about the brand. It’s true for any organization, but we are talking to nonprofits. The reason we have top-level business leaders like you on this series is we need to understand good, sound business principles to install into these organizations that we lead. Why is branding important? How do we illuminate that into the communities that want to support us but need that information?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> Let’s just say this. Whether you like it or not, you have a brand. Whether you know it or not, you have a brand. These scanners- I have a scanner over there. It’s a Hewlett Packard. It doesn’t compare to these scanners. *points to eyes* I have a computer that we’re working through. It doesn’t compare to this computer .*points to brain* Everyone is walking around with these scanners and this computer, and everything counts. Whether you acknowledge it or not, you are creating an impression from the eye to the brain to the heart to the soul of who you are and what you’re doing, whether you believe in it or not. I don’t know if you believe in gravity or not, but if you walk off of any building in any town of any city, you are going down. It’s an immutable fact.</p> <p>Now, thank you for the concept of the not-for-profit. Why talk about what we’re not? That was brilliant. You open up my thinking. I thank you for that.</p> <p>I want to let all of my service providers know that everything that you do is creating an impression, whether you believe in it or not. Could you imagine if I came out and said, “I want to talk about hygiene and important it is?” *while sniffling and rubbing his nose and eyes* That would be absurd. I happen to have a 501(c)3 for anti-bullying called Anti Bullying Leadership Experience. Everything that we do is going to be carrying our mojo of the anti-bullying. Could you imagine if I started yelling at one of my vendors and pouncing on them and playing a power trip with them? That would be the antithesis of everything.</p> <p>The point I want to make is make believe that you are on the stage of a microscope and you are being observed in everything that you are doing because you are. And as soon as the leaders know that, they will start looking at things differently. You drive up to the parking lot, see what the front door looks like, see how you are greeted, and you are watching everything that is going on. God is my judge, I must tell you.</p> <p>Hugh, you know I am putting together a little wedding party for my daughter. I was at two places today, one of which the woman didn’t show up to the appointment, and she needed to call me back, and she didn’t later. One was a very famous place called L’Auberge Del Mar. It’s five-star. When I called to make a room reservation there, I was there for seven and a half minutes before I even found someone. I eventually called the manager who called me back. I said, “I’m going to give you a gift. I would like you to call and try to make a room reservation and get the experience of what that’s like.” She did. She called me back and goes, “My goodness, Mr. Corbin. I had no idea.”</p> <p>We need to audit all of these activities. Our service organizations, which do not have an unlimited budget that a lot of corporations might have today, must be efficient, must be effective. The best consultation you can get is from yourself experiencing your deliverables and that which it is you are bringing to the market. I just think that we don’t have a lot of wiggle room for error.</p> <p>There is a wonderful book by Andy Grove who started a little company called Intel. You probably haven’t heard of it. Andy wrote a book called <em>Only the Paranoid Survive.</em> I don’t think he is suggesting that we walk around paranoid. I think he is suggesting a strong and deep introspection into what we are doing and how we are doing it. I want to punch that home. Please, please for the benefit of all whom you are serving and whom you could serve in the future, take this message seriously. Know that you have a brand. Live that brand. Make sure that everyone in your auspices know how they live that brand.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Those are wise words. Mr. Russell Dennis is capturing sound bites. He is very good at picking out things, and you have given him a lot of fresh meat today.</p> <p>David, you work with a variety of different kinds of clients, some of whom you and I both know. When you are working with them on building out the whole framework of the organization they are launching and growing, at what point do you hone in on this brand image, brand promise, brand identity? At what point in this process do you focus on that aspect?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> I believe strongly with begin in the end in mind. It’s more than rhetoric. If you are a service organization, really ask the penetrating questions. 1) Why do we exist, and do we need to exist? 2) Who do we serve, and how do we serve them? 3) How do we want to be known? 4) What do we want somebody to yell over to the fence to their neighbor about our organization? When you have that, you work backwards from that. Business planning takes the existing business and carries it out into the future, but strategic planning envisions the future and works backwards from there. I take a deep dive of visualization. Actually, as you know, I am a graduate of Woodstock. I was there in 1969. So I can say not just visualization, but hallucination. I can really hallucinate on those questions.</p> <p>I just was in front of an audience in Atlanta and said, “What do you want? What do you really want?” I say that to businesses as I do strategic planning. Who are you? Who are you really? Then you know all of that. That is when you contemplate for your brand promise and the reputation that you want to earn because you can’t demand it. Then when you do that, you get the confidence to move forward. You now have the gristmill, and everything must go through that. How does it go against our brand? Should we do that? Great, tell us how it fits into our brand. When someone does something that is off-target, how did that dent our brand, and what can we do to prevent that from happening again?</p> <p>In direct answer to your question, do this brand audit right form the get-go. I promise you not only does it give individuals a sense of ownership, but it gives them a sense of confidence because nobody wants to mess it up. In Europe, they take it down to the bottom line. When you ding the brand, you are actually pilfering money from the organization. Isn’t that something? Imagine if we really own the brand. No one changes the oil when we rent a car because they don’t have ownership. When people know what the brand is in their hands, they take ownership. What happens is when you collaborate with your people, you breed creativity and commitment. Now they are engaged, they are enrolled. Nothing can stop a service organization with passionate, engaged people. That is why I plug what you’re doing, Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Thank you for that, David. That is such a vivid description of how we can upgrade our performance and upgrade the performance of the organization that we have a huge responsibility for as the leader. Perceiving ourselves as the leader doesn’t mean we have to do everything. It does mean we need to be involved in the grassroots of what is going on so we can know what is actually happening. And what you talked about brings to mind that we build relationship with others in the organization. To me, that is the foundation of leadership, and it is also the foundation of communications. You gave the gift to the hotel manager that she didn’t have because she was too busy doing the top-level things to get into the minutiae and figure out, Whoa, how do we look to the public? You could go to any big company in America and help them do an audit, and it would bring them immense value, probably within the first 30 seconds of your conversation.</p> <p>Part of what you described is part of this word that you have used, which is such a brilliant framing of how we- Everybody in Synervision is a leader. We lead from different perspectives, and we impact everybody else in the organization. We also represent the brand. We don’t know who is going to go wild, like United Airlines. That was such a terrible thing for everybody, but it highlighted an underlying problem. Brand slaughter was what brought it to the fore. I bet that cost United a whole lot of money so far, not to mention future business.</p> <p>Let’s take it back to the charities. We are doing work that impacts people’s lives, sometimes saving people from drug addition or suicide or insanity. There are a lot of worthy things we are doing. We have elements going on that kill the brand. I love it when you talk about this brand slaughter thing. I’d like to put it back into context in what we’re doing with this world of charities and how we need to contain this brand and empower our tribes to represent the brand and not be guilty of brand slaughter. Give us a little more food for thought, especially for charities. I work with churches, synagogues, community foundations, semi-government agencies. I find there is a similarity with everybody, that we are not aware of how the culture is represented by the people, and that brand slaughter is committed in minor ways, but also in bigger ways.</p> <p>I am going to shut up now and let you talk about brand slaughter and why that is so crucial for our charities.</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> I look at it this way. I believe that the financial results of any organization is largely dependent on the quality of its people and the clarity of its people. Be it a service organization or otherwise, I believe everyone in the organization should create a circle. I don’t mean hands holding. I mean draw a circle, a wheel with a hub and spokes. Every one of those spokes is an essential core job function for that person. If it’s a leader, we know some of the spokes are delegation, communication, strategic thinking, and financial management. Those are all spokes. Whatever the position is, if you’re an operating room nurse or a development manager for a service organization, you create that wheel and look at the spokes. When you do, you start rating yourself on those spokes. The hub means you’re terrible. Outside at the end is a number ten. That is mastery. You get real serious with whoever you are, whatever your job is, and rate yourself on a scale of zero to ten. Where you are an eight or nine, great, pat yourself on the back. That is really cool. But don’t stop there. Unfortunately, Americans tend to stop at the immediate gratification. Look at what I’m doing great. We say no. Focus in on the threes, fours, and fives. Set a goal to a six, eight, and nine, and close those gaps.</p> <p>I say that to my brothers and sisters who work in the serious world of service delivery. I mean what we would call service providers and not-for-profits or whatever you want to call them. When you get serious, and you rate yourself on a scale of one to ten in those areas, and you start closing those gaps, magic happens. You know what the magic is? You start building a momentum of growing yourself. You can’t grow an organization unless the individuals are growing themselves.</p> <p>You show me an organization that does what I’m talking about: closing the gaps, setting personal goals, and getting more efficient and effective in what they do. I don’t care if their building burns down; they could accomplish their mission in a tent. They could do it with dirt floors. They could do it anywhere. The saying is, “Wherever two or more people are gathered in His name, there is love.” Let me tell you.</p> <p>Whenever you have a leadership team and a management team that talks about building their people, the only renewable asset in an organization, no matter what happens, they will win. Every one of the employees increases their asset value. You invoke the law of control. People feel good about themselves in the extent they are moving in the direction of destiny. Their confidence goes up. Their competence goes up. People talk about going down the rabbit hole. Now you are going up this amazing spire into success, achievement, productivity, confidence, peace of mind, and self-esteem. I am passionate about that because I have seen it work. I help it work. I live it myself. I couldn’t talk about it if I didn’t live it, or else that would be a form of brand slaughter.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I can validate that. You live out the David Corbin brand. You illuminate the brand. Or you don’t do it. You are very serious about being spot-on. You show up fully present.</p> <p>I have been doing the German ice cream thing. I am being Häagen-Dazs Mike. Russell, do you have a comment or a question for our guest tonight?</p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> It’s a lot easier to tear a brand apart than it is to put it together. Look at United. Those guys have been around forever and a day. And in the space of a day, they have torn the whole thing down and trashed a lot of good wealth. It’s very easy. Brand is about- it goes beyond a logo. People think of a logo when they think of a brand. It’s not the logo; it’s what is behind the logo that symbolizes something. I am going to pull a definition out of a book that a very wise man wrote, “The brand as is a tangible expression of top-performing culture comes to life when the elements including the mission are taken off the wall and put into daily action at all levels and through all individuals in the organization.” That is a big mouthful.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Who is the wise person that wrote that?</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Just some guy who is sitting around while we chat.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> David Corbin wrote that.</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> Brand slaughter, to me, is the ultimate thing. To say this is what we stand for and do something completely different. I think there are some people out there who are scrutinizing and are waiting for somebody to make a mistake. I have seen people do that. You run into those folks in a supermarket. People don’t intentionally set out to fail, but it happens. These are things that are talked about in the Core Steps to Building a Nonprofit course. When it’s building that foundation, they could lay all those things out.</p> <p>The time to figure out your brand is right at the outset. Who do we serve? What is in our wheelhouse? What do we have? What are we weak at? Where are our gaps? I think you have to hammer those strengths and work with them, but when you have a gap, that is where your recruiting starts. You recruit your advisors, you recruit your board. Or you look for collaborative partners. But you find a way to do it that will stay because everything rides on it. You have to have it all in place. You have to have a solid foundation to start making those plans and do the things that you want to do first. What are we going to do first? There is a big vision.</p> <p>I have been working with Sue Lee. We had a great conversation yesterday. I have also been working with Dennis Cole on his foundation. We are looking at some potential sponsors. We have got some things that we are going to be doing really soon that are interesting, but we are ready to break out and go out there and be a service to people by telling them they don’t have to succumb to any bad circumstances they have because of an injury or major illness. You can work around that. The whole brand is about living that and walking that walk. These are pretty courageous young men I am proud to be helping.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Part of that course where you talked about- David, Russell is helping people bring in revenue to their so-called nonprofits/charities. There is a relevance. Russ, I’d like to get David weigh in on the relevance of this branding and attracting revenue, the income that we really need that is the profit that runs our charity. Russell, I’ll bring it back to you in a minute, but you had illuminated some things that I wanted to get David to weigh in on. There is a monetary equivalent to the integrity in our brand that you talked about earlier.</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> Yeah. Just as in the strategic planning you are asking yourself who are we serving and why are we serving and how are we serving, when you look at the individuals you are appealing to in business development, you say, “Hey, contribute to us. Support us.” When we are looking at that, we then need to reverse-engineer that.</p> <p>That is what I do in my visualization/hallucination. Why are they contributing? What have they contributed to before? What are they contributing to? What is going to make them feel good? How do they know they are contributing to the right organization after they contribute so they might want to contribute again? When you contemplate the psychology of that, much like you look into why people invest into businesses, you think about those donors. Then you know that the emotional connection-</p> <p>You guys have heard me talk about the mojo factor or the God only knows factor. Why are you contributing to them year after year? God only knows. Would you consider not contributing to them or contributing to someone else? Absolutely not. Why? God only knows. They are not sure what that emotional connection is, but you know the emotional connection.</p> <p>In my case, with the anti-bullying, we are looking at the ramifications of some of these young souls who have been bullied and how it impacts their lives. Individuals who are donating to that might have experienced some bullying before and know the pain they went through, as well as the imaginations throughout their life. We know that now, so we know what the mojo factor is to get that individual to know who we are, what we do, and how and why they might want to invest.</p> <p>When that becomes our brand, when they can see it and feel it and taste it and touch it, which it to say there is energy between what we are doing and what we are saying, from the logo and the color and the actions and our behaviors and our sounds, then when we have that going on, we have this awesome connection.</p> <p>Years ago, some of us are old enough to know about Ma Bell. Remember Ma Bell? And then a company came in called Sprint and they wanted to break that God only knows connection, that amazing connection between Ma Bell. Sprint came in and said. It was MCI. They said, “We are going to beat the price,” and Ma Bell came out and said, “Oh yeah? Make them put it in writing.” Ma Bell, you don’t talk like that. Ma? They broke that bond, you see. That is just an example of breaking a bond.</p> <p>When it comes to our organizations who are listening today, the bond is that promise. The two great things that my friend Russell just discussed are 1) it’s a lot easier to kill a brand than to build a brand. That is so true. And secondly, among other things Russell shared, there are some people out there who are looking for you to mess up. There is an individual looking for the rabbi to have a ham sandwich. There is an individual who is looking for the such-and-such the wrong way. They are looking for that. Why? Because it is easier to find the fault in others than to take the personal responsibility to build themselves. So when you know that, don’t be paranoid. But be a little paranoid and know they are watching you. Not only are people scanning you from a neutral point of view, and those scanning you from a positive point of view, but there are also those naysayers who are looking for you to be hypocritical. They are looking for you to mess up. That is when I say have everybody lockstep in knowing what is our promise and behaving that way. You can’t go after fund development and not be the brand, or you are wasting your time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Whoa. So Russell, I have interrupted you. Were you formulating a question? We are two thirds of the way through our interview, and we are getting into the nitty-gritty. Did you have a really hard question to stump our guest with tonight?</p> <p><strong>Russ:</strong> There is no stumping David. It just follows in with what I was saying. The fourth step of building a high-performance nonprofit is to be able to communicate that value that you bring to everybody you come into contact with. You have people that work in the organization. You have donors. You have people who get your services. You need to know how to do it with everyone. With people who are working with you internally, you have to set an expectation so people know exactly what they are signing up for. Understand that you are not everybody’s flavor, but you are some people’s flavor.</p> <p>When you talk to organizations or donors or people who are going to support you, here is the reality of anything you undertake: There is going to be some risk associated. If you walk in and tell them, “Everything is going to be peachy,” when you are in the service mind-frame or an entrepreneur, we can be hopeless optimists a lot of times. It has been my experience that a lot of things take twice the money, time, and effort they are going to take because we go in with those good intentions. We have to be fully transparent, especially if we discover we have some problems or snags implementing the project. The time to talk about that is as soon as you discover it and look at it and say, “Well, we may not be where we quite want to be.” Up front, transparent. Illuminate as David has talked about. That is a book that is on my shelf. I love that book. I read the thing in one sitting.</p> <p>A lot of people want to cover up. Or human egos want to make us look good. When we are in the business of trying to help people with some serious societal problems, you have to get the ego out of the way. That is hard to do. It makes it difficult to get organizations to collaborate or talk to one another. I have seen a lot of that, too. My philosophy is that you can get a hell of a lot done if you are not hung up on who gets the credit. It is an uphill climb often, but I think the landscape is changing a little bit. People are going into business with a socially benefited mind. They create business structures like the LLC and the B-corp and the benefit corporations. We are seeing a lot of these social enterprises crop up. People can not only make a profit but can also do some good. It’s all about doing some good, but there are certain things we have to look at. It has to be run efficiently and effectively, but it doesn’t matter what your tax stamp says.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a comment on Twitter: “Doing what you love, loving whom you serve, believing that your nonprofit is vital. I knew too many whose hearts aren’t in…” That’s interesting.</p> <p>David, do you want to respond to Russ before we go to the final set of questions here?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> Well, a couple things that come to mind. Something that you had said earlier, Hugh, and something that Russell just said. I’ll start with Russell. Yes, you need to face the issue. Face a lot of issues. Look at what happened. Happily, there will be lemonade coming out of this lemon on the United Airlines. Not for that doctor, but he will get a huge settlement. That is not what he wanted. I think the industry is shifting now. I read somewhere that Southwest Airlines has changed their model around overselling seats. Sometimes it takes this type of situation for people to learn, and then they shift. A lot of people don’t really appreciate their life or family until God forbid maybe a near-death experience, and that is what wakes them up. I say practice safety in driving before then, don’t wait for a near-death experience.</p> <p>Start contemplating for the potential issues or challenges that might happen in your organization before it happens. That is the part of roleplaying what could/might happen. What could possibly happen in this situation? Those are the types of things. Don’t be a negative nelly. Don’t get me wrong. The government has something called Sarbanes-Oxley that says the corporation has the fiduciary responsibility to anticipate, predict, and prepare for a natural disaster. It makes good sense. You don’t have to mandate that to me as a business owner. Of course, if I am manufacturing a car, I want to make sure that if the person who creates my rearview mirrors goes down, I am still going to be able to meet the needs of my organization, my shareholders, my staff, my employees. Of course I am going to do that. I don’t need regulation. For crying out loud, I don’t even need the Americans with Disabilities Act, which is to provide reasonable accommodations for people with disabilities. For crying out loud, that is just good sense. It is just good sense. Plus it is the right thing to do. But be that as it may, we need to face the issue before it happens. Oh by the way, be prepared for facing the issue after it happens.</p> <p>So Mr. President of United Airlines, anticipate if a problem goes down how you are going to handle it. Don’t say he was only following procedure. There was a guy in Nazi Germany who used to say that, too. I was just following procedure. I hate to make an extreme example, but I make a point following procedure. Following procedure, pulling a guy off, breaking his teeth. Come on. To say that is just ridiculous.</p> <p>What Pricewaterhouse did after they had a big brouhaha in front of 33 million people, they had 87 years of doing the job really well. What happened after that is they came back and apologized. They said Mea culpa. Just like the Japanese corporate executives did if a plane goes down, they resign. They take personal responsibility. But what Pricewaterhouse did is they said: It was our responsibility, and we apologize. We are looking into it. We want to congratulate those people on camera, including Jimmy Kimmel, for handling it elegantly. Even bringing a little humor into it. We apologize from the bottom of our hearts—I am paraphrasing here—and we will get to the bottom of this. We will let you know what happens so it never happens again. You see, that ding wasn’t brand slaughter. It was kind of like getting a ticket for tinted windows or a light being out. I believe we are going to forgive them after a while, but it will be hard to forgive United Airlines after they issued responsibility and took that cheap ticket out.</p> <p>I’m piggybacking off some of the comments you made earlier. I think it’s an important point. Anticipate what can go wrong. It doesn’t require legislation for that; it requires common sense. Then practice. Practice so it comes out naturally. Sir Lawrence Olivier said the key to acting is spontaneity, which is the result of long, hard, tedious practice. I say practice.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I could hear you talk all night, David. I think people would be with us this long. There are people listening to you with lots of focus.</p> <p>We could all reframe our own leadership. The question we threw out for people to think about is from the leadership position. My forty years of conducting, I know that what the orchestra and the choir sees is what I get. The culture is a reflection of our leadership. Representing the brand internally helps them represent the brand externally. My question to you is, in this whole spirit of illuminating- I don’t know about you, but I find some leaders who have more blind spots than awareness on the impact they are having on the brand externally and internally. You can do your own inventory, but I don’t think we can. We need to illuminate with some outside, impartial person asking us the right questions. David, how can a leader, especially one that has been in a position for a while, keep it fresh and illuminate our own representation of our brand internally and externally?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> I think it’s about integrity. Integrity is a powerful word. It’s thrown around. But integrity, the leader living the values of the business. I can’t ask you to do what I’m not willing to do. They say one of the biggest sports in life is soccer, but I don’t think that’s true. I think the biggest sport in life is boss-watching. Seriously. I really think that. They set the culture. They set the pace. To the extent they are leading with honor and integrity, with the values and behaviors and all.</p> <p>I talk about illuminate, face it, follow, and fix it. One time, instead of getting out of the shower and running past the mirror, I stopped. I didn’t quite like what I saw, and I saw a guy who was 40-50 pounds overweight. I thought, My goodness. How dare I talk about illuminate if I don’t face it. I faced it. I am asking everyone, every leader, to face: Are you living in integrity? I followed it. I found out why I was gaining weight. I was having a glass of wine or two every night, and it brought my blood sugar down. I would eat anything that was there. There are sardines and chocolate syrup. Looks great! And then I’d go to sleep. I didn’t realize I was training to be an athlete. There is an athlete who drinks alcohol and eats a lot of food at night, and that athlete is called a sumo wrestler. I was training to be a sumo wrestler. I couldn’t be a leader of Illuminate and be that hypocritical. The fix it was to take small steps and make some transformation.</p> <p>I ask my leaders, my brothers and sisters who are leaders, to get serious. I walked into an association that has to do with diabetes, and I saw a big Coke machine there. I look at some of our organizations who are in the health industry, and they are not healthy. I did a lot of work with a company. I won’t tell you the name of it, but it rhymes with Schmaiser Permanente. They are talking about their model called Thrive. And I look at some of their employees, and they are out of integrity. I say, “Don’t talk about thrive. You are better off saying nothing. When I see the word ‘thrive’ and see people who are grossly unhealthy, I know you are hypocritical. I wonder where else you are cutting corners. I don’t like that.” Everything counts. Everything counts.</p> <p>I scan, I think, I feel. Maybe below the line of consciousness. But if it is not in integrity, I am not donating my time and my money to you. I am going to move on to someone who is. Any business, any organization, the leader must lead by example. When she falls down, she says, “Mea culpa. You know what. I fell down. I apologize for that. Here is my plan.”</p> <p>The feminization of business today is so important. Authenticity comes with that, and a lot of drive. When we have the character to say, “Whoops, I messed up, wow, that is a big difference,” that is leadership. Leadership is real. Vulnerability, authenticity, those are just words. They are being overused, but they are real. Get serious about that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You are preaching our song. We preach that leadership is influence. We get to choose if we influence positively or negatively. Those are good parting words, but I am going to give you the chance to do a wish or thought or tip for people as we leave. I want to recognize that they can go to davidcorbin.com. David Corbin leaps over tall buildings. Do you really run a 5K every Sunday?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> Every Saturday when I am in town.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Wow. And you went to Woodstock? You know who else was there?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> My brother David Gruder.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Yes, he was at Woodstock. You and I are contemporaries. I am a little older than you are. I have never had anybody on this interview series take a sound bite from Rhapsody in Blue. He is a modern-day Renaissance man with many skills. David Corbin, you are indeed a blessing to a lot of people, but tonight, to Russ and me for sharing this great stuff with so many charities.</p> <p>As we are winding up this really powerful interview, David, what is a parting thought or tip you’d like to leave with these amazing leaders that are making such a difference in people’s lives?</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> I would express my gratitude for their passion, for their hard work. It is difficult today. Service organizations, it seems as though they are being told to jump through hoops and then they make the hoops smaller and then they set the hoops on fire. It’s not easy. We need to attract people to volunteer and donate and work for our noble mission. Every morning, I wake up. My hands and knees are on the ground like our Muslim brothers, and I give thanks and gratitude every single morning. I want to give gratitude to those of you who are taking the rein and doing this amazing work, this social work. I thank you for that. I deeply hope that some of these ideas might help you be more effective, more efficient, and more joyous and confident in what you do. Thank you for what you do.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> David Corbin, special words indeed. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with so many people. Your words will live on. Thanks so much for being with us.</p> <p><strong>David:</strong> Thanks, brother.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Does the World Need Your Nonprofit?</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/does-the-world-need-your-nonprofit</link>
      <description>Thomas Moviel is the CEO of 50 USA Markets headquartered in Orlando, Florida and has a background in economic research and business consulting. His company has strategic alliances with trade consultants, international trade offices, economic development commissions, marketing channels, manufacturers and researchers throughout the USA, which gives clients a full-breadth of market entry services. Here's their website: http://www.50usamarkets.com
 The Interview Transcript
 Nonprofit Chat with Thomas Moviel
 Russell Dennis: This is Russ Dennis with the Nonprofit Chat for Tuesday, May 2. We have Thomas Moviel, CEO of 50 USA Markets, headquartered in Orlando, Florida. How is the weather down there, Thomas?
 Thomas Moviel: We are finally getting some rain today. We have been in a drought for the past month, which is very unlike Florida. For once, we are happy to see some rain.
 Russell: A drought is a way some nonprofits actually describe their funding. A big piece of that revolves around the fact that people don’t know they are there or what it is they are trying to do. When we talk about marketing in a business sense, a lot of people cringe. But communicating what you’re doing is pretty important. I know that you do a lot with all sorts of market research and helping people position themselves. Why would it be important for a nonprofit or people who are thinking about starting a nonprofit to do market research?
 Thomas: Know if there is a real need out there for their nonprofit and services and mission. There are tens of thousands of nonprofits out there already. Often people have a good idea and see a need and think it would be a great idea for a nonprofit. But maybe there are nonprofits out there doing that already. Maybe they are not serving your community or your school system or whatever it may be that you are focusing on. There might be that nonprofit out there doing very similar things to what you want to do who are already getting funding from somewhere. As all nonprofits know, funding is a scarce resource. I think when you are going to get up and get a nonprofit going, as the saying goes, there is nothing new under the sun, but there are many ways of doing things. New strategies. But I think it’s important to do your market research because you want to know is funding even viable? If there are dozens of nonprofits out there who you haven’t heard of, or one huge mammoth of a nonprofit that has a monopoly on an entire area, maybe your chances of getting funding are going to be slim, or maybe instead your opportunity instead is going—I don’t know how often they do this—to them and working as a subcontractor or talking to them about partnering. What are the areas they are focusing on and not focusing on? Market research is not just secondary research of pulling data. There will be a fair amount of data out there. But also doing primary research and not just on the Internet, but picking up the phone and making a lot of calls. That was a very long-winded answer, but I can talk about this for days. That is a start.
 Russell: There are lots of reasons to do that. When you came up with your concept of 50 USA Markets, when you were putting your business together, you did a lot of research. Talk about what that looked like and how your background played into that, how you built your team to fill in those areas you needed a bit of extra support in and so forth.
 Thomas: I hate to disappoint, but my business started overnight, and work fell into my lap. Once I got started, because I worked for more and more domestic companies and organizations nowadays, but I focus solely on the U.S. I started off working for foreign companies who were looking to enter the U.S. market. I have a strong international background that goes back to working in international development. I was a Peace Corps volunteer in the Carpathian Mountains for a couple years doing economic development work. Very grassroots stuff and working with a lot of nonprofits over there and local city councils and churches and city halls.
 Basically, once I started getting going, I knew I needed to expand my business. I was working for one trade office. How I started getting going was finding out- There are a ton of lists and information, so I found out who the other trade offices were, how they operated. I talked to more diplomats and people who I know who are working in the international field. I realized a lot of big countries that are big into trade like France or the UK have huge departments with people doing what I do. But it’s a lot of the smaller companies, like Latvia, for example. I have been talking to them lately. They had a trading office until 2008, and then they closed it down, so their companies had no representation in the U.S. I talked to my friends and got an in with one of my Latvian friends from grad school who had contacts in the government.
 Because I live in Orlando, I tapped into- There is not a huge international community, but I looked at what is happening in Miami. I thought logically about where trade happens. Well, it happens in Miami. What trade offices are located in Miami? Then I looked at the websites, finding out who runs them. Literally sending out emails and follow-ups. Picking up the phone and cold-calling. Sharing with them, “This is what I do. This is how I can help you. What are your current needs? What are your current challenges?” Talking more and more and getting through the vetting process to become a vendor for them. That is a big way that I have done things. Word of mouth. I don’t use a lot of social media. For a lot of people, it’s a big thing. Maybe I am old-school, but I just find who those people are, and I pick up the phone and call or email. That is how I do things.
 Russell: I have an economic development background working with the tribal nation myself. Economic development is broad. It’s about lifting all boats up, and you stepped in and filled a need that was there. That was critical. That has proven to be lucrative. There is so much international trade. But you turned your attention to domestic markets. To me, that you are focused on being at home and doing work that helps support nonprofits to educate them on some of the things they need to do to become more marketable. If you were talking to someone at a new nonprofit or a social entrepreneur that was thinking about starting a social enterprise as far as finding out what he needs to know, what would be some of the first steps you would give him/her to take in order to find out if their idea is viable?
 Thomas: I think a few things that I would do is obviously start with very basic research on nonprofits. It’s going to depend on what your focus is. Are you national or local? If you are only local, focus on your local market. I know what nonprofits are out there. I used to live in Colorado, and there are a lot of nonprofits there. There was the Colorado Nonprofit Association or something, and they had lists of all the nonprofits and what they do. You can usually find a local resource. If you are in a remote area and can’t find something, maybe call your local city hall or city councilman. Their office can often be helpful and let you know what nonprofits are out there. Especially if you are going to go more regional or national, there is a trade association for everything. I know I can find within a couple minutes some databases that are big proponents, and their job is propagating the general nonprofit industry and doing lobbying on a state level or national level. They will have databases and resources and find out who is doing this out there. You can find out who else is doing something similar to what you are doing. Or you might find they are doing the same thing, but then research the website and reach out to them. Talk to them. Hopefully they are not very controlling or competitive and will share what they do. Maybe you will find what they do is helpful but still doesn’t fulfill needs you see.
 Another thing I would do is talk to people in the industry and find out what the trends are. One way you can find out what the trends are is who is funding the nonprofits who are similar to you, the start-ups? What types of projects or nonprofits are they funding? You might have something great for capacity building. You want to do capacity building for businesses, but that is not what is being funded right now. You might then need to find: If there is no funding for capacity building or my idea, what are other nonprofits that have that kind of interest and latch on to and do some volunteer work, maybe learn more about the industry or maybe you will see how you can take your vision and adapt it. Maybe there is funding going on for female teenage empowerment, something along those lines. I don’t know how you can combine those two, but doing research on another topic that really interests you or what is being funded, you might begin to see the initial vision is not exactly what you thought it was going to be, and you might have to modify it where you can do some capacity building but in an area that is getting funded, which might increase your chances of getting funded. Does that make sense?
 Russell: It does. A lot of people *audio cut* important to look into there. I am in Colorado, and I am a member of the Colorado Nonprofit Association. They are members of the National Council of Nonprofits, which is where you can plug in and fan out and see other places. I am a firm believer in what you are talking about as far as finding other people who are doing the same thing. A big piece of market research is the competitive analysis, seeing the competition. Unfortunately, it can be a barrier to collaboration. Looking at that landscape, more than half the charities that are started fail. Why is understanding the competition important? What are some of the things you look for as far as somebody that might be a potential collaborator, as it were?
 Thomas: I think the biggest thing I look for in someone who might be a potential collaborator is someone who genuinely expresses interest in collaborating or just throwing it out there: Hey, do you see any collaborative opportunities or is there something you need help with? If you were in my position, what would you recommend I do? Don’t rely on just necessarily one person’s advice. Sometimes a person’s advice could be golden, or it could just be rubbish and very biased and they might have their own agenda for why they tell you what they do. Getting on why to research competitors is saving time, effort, and money. If you think you have a great idea and spend all this time getting your 501(c)3 up and running, you try to convince your friends to join your board, then you find out you can’t get any funding or you don’t have time to write the grants or you don’t know how to write the grants or you can’t hire someone to write the grants for you. It goes a lot into strategic planning of course. You need to know again who else is out there, where are they getting their funding from?
 If you think there is room for you and your nonprofit in that segment, getting to know your competitors is very much what it is that you find that they do well and that they don’t do well. Maybe you can see what they don’t do well or at all, and that is your in. You can start with a mission. It may be a little different than what you originally wanted to do, but that doesn’t mean you have to stick with that forever. It’s just an in. I think many times people are too rigid. It’s not just nonprofits, but it’s in business. The universe can point you in a direction that may be different than your initial vision. Again, maybe you start off wanting to work with young girls, but the funding is for young boys or pre-teens. Then you get going and over time you get to learn the business, you get a good reputation, you learn who the funders are, and then you can get into the area you are most passionate about.
 Getting back to the competition: What is their operating efficiency? You see there are nonprofits out there that don’t use the money that is donated to them very efficiently. That is something that when I am making a charitable donation, I don’t care if it is $10, but I want to know how much of my $10 is actually going to good use. Maybe 95% of it is going to good use, but what are the results? Are people getting what they are supposed to be getting, or whatever the mission of your nonprofit is? Where you can learn about it is through talking to people, going to meetings, research, reading reviews, finding out your competitors can be a big part of when you are writing your grants, you can say, “Our operating efficiency is going to be high because we have such low overhead. We feel we have done the research, and this area has been neglected. It’s an underserved population.” Your job of analyzing your competitors is not to put them down but to learn who they are and what their pros and cons are. That can only help you with positioning yourself, which will greatly increase the chances of your nonprofit being successful. A lot of being successful is getting the funding.
 Russell: Understanding the market. A nonprofit has a look and feel of a business. You are operating an organization that is there to deliver value. I don’t think the people are worried about how much you spend as long as it’s being spent in the way that is delivering impact that has been promised. I think that you have different people that define that value differently. It’s going to be different for individual donors versus private foundations versus the government or any other number of people that you interact with. How many nonprofits, when you are sitting down talking with them about this research and the different audiences that are out there that interface with that nonprofit, how do you walk them through that and have that conversation around value and understanding all of the different people they come into contact with?
 Thomas: It depends on the flow of that conversation. Getting into what makes you unique or your idea unique. Who else out there is doing that? Have you done research on people or funds? These large grant funding agencies, are they funding these types of projects? Have you talked to them? Have you made phone calls? Why not call and ask about trends? They make the decisions on what the trends are going to be based on what they feel the needs are. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Also getting down into funding. If you have a full-time job, do you have the time? If you don’t have the time, how are you going to make the time? That may be hiring a team. That may be spending every weekend for the next year or two working real hard to get it up and running. I have been part of the grassroots nonprofits that I got involved with before as a 501(c)3, and then I was a board member and on the finance committee, so I got to see a lot of the tough dealings that it went through.
 It comes back again to what separates you from the pack. How do you know there will be funding for you? When you talk about impact, that’s great, but what does impact mean? When I say you, I am speaking generically. Why do people care about what you do? You might think they need it, but do they think they need it? Is there a real clamoring in your community for this service? That can be a big tell-tale sign if this is something to pursue or to shut it down altogether. One of the danger points is getting so excited about your idea that seems amazing to you, and it’s not to knock it, but you have to run it through the mill and let people give you feedback in the industry and through your secondary research, too, to find out if the world is ready for your great idea. Take your time. Do your due diligence. Don’t rush things. You can file a 501(c)3 any day of the year. I think too often people get too far down the road before they find out it’s not sustainable, even if the community needs it. There is no guarantee with doing competitive analysis and research that you will have success. But you can help to increase your odds and chances. I am a big proponent of being efficient. What is the most efficient way to build it and be successful and not waste our time or money?
 Russell: That is sage advice. It is thorough. Looking at that as we are talking about that, what are some of the most common mistakes you see people make in their analysis? When you pointed out that they get excited about an idea, everybody needs my idea, a lot of times they just run with it without analysis. Some people do some research and run off and get stuck. What are some of the most common oversights and errors that you see them make in the process?
 Thomas: Not researching their competition enough. You really got to know them. Don’t be afraid to talk to them. With integrity, too. Maybe spy on them or go to one of their events or fundraisers. Find out how to do things because you can learn a ton.
 People only doing secondary research or only doing primary research. I talked to a friend and they said they don’t know anybody else who does this so I think it’s a good idea. Or people in my community are saying they want it. If you don’t know what your competitors are up to next, they may be targeting that need. Or nobody may be targeting that need because the funding isn’t there. Unless you have deep pockets yourself or have great relations with people with deep pockets, then that should be a concern of yours.
 If you are in a segment with a lot of players, only researching the two or three competitors, but there are a lot of other players there, too. If there are 100 different nonprofits, you don’t need to spend days on each one, but you better pick some of the main frontrunners, more than two, and find out what they’re doing. I build spreadsheets for my clients. Here is the organization, here is where their main location, any offshoots, who runs it, who is on their board, pros and cons, what are people saying, different programs they offer, funding, and funding sources. That is something people can be doing for themselves as well. Taking the time to build that database. Learning what your competitors’ offerings are is one good way of learning what their pros and cons are. That is an upside of talking to people, too. I think that answers your question.
 Russell: I also think that people are afraid of data. Before, it was hard to know where to look, and now there is data everywhere, some of it free and some of it requiring an investment. How do you work with someone when they are very much intimidated by the data? How do you walk them through that? if they got enough fear, they won’t bother to do it.
 Thomas: Data can be very intimidating. I even get intimidated by data sometimes, but you have to persist. One of the biggest ways that I work with data is being able to explain it in layman’s terms, as much as understanding what it means. Sometimes data doesn’t mean a whole lot. People think because I do market research that I am a marketing guy. I’m not. I am an economist by trade. That makes it different and gives me a different perspective in how I approach things. In economics, if at first the data doesn’t produce the results you want, you massage the data. If massaging the data doesn’t give it the results you want, you beat it into submission until it does what you want. You can get numbers to tell you anything you want.
 My point being make sure you are getting your data from a reputable source. It’s usually best to get it from multiple sources. Try to verify it by talking to other experts in the industry. Often it’s not hard to find someone on LinkedIn or through the trade associations or other people in the industry. Call the company and ask them how they come to the conclusions with the data because so much matters in terms of population size, where the data was extracted (if it was only the Northeast because if you follow any elections, you extract data from different parts of the country and get different results). None of it is right or wrong. It is what it is. Getting back to the point: I think there are a lot of paid services out there. I subscribe to a few. Some are incredibly expensive, so I don’t bother with that, and I can usually get what I need through other methods.
 Another thing that people don’t think about is there is a ton of databases out there that are free to the public through the library system. The data is mandated by law to be available for the public. The government gets it out through the public library system. Go talk to a librarian if you are looking for certain data.
 Another way is if you are by a local university, or call them if you’re not near any, find out the department. If you are focusing on youth, you can talk to their education department or their mental health counselor. They can share or help you out with getting the data for free because universities have access to it as well.
 Those are a couple ways to get around the system.
 Russell: I love the public library. When I was growing up way back when, that was what we had. That was before the information age. The research librarians are good friends, and that is an excellent use of tax dollars. Now there is a flood of information. People can have all sorts of data. They get it from other sources. They have it, but they don’t necessarily know how reliable each of the sources are. How do you help folks navigate some of the better places to look for data? When they come to you, how to interpret it and make sense of it?
 Thomas: I end up doing it for them often. The times that someone has come to me, depending on the situation, I dig through the data and figure out what it means. Sometimes some of the data is best left to experts in that industry. I might find a trade association and ask them to explain it to me.
 I used to work for an environmental economics firm before I started my own company. We were working on a very large project for the entire state of Florida. Universities were some of the best resources. I used to call all around the country. We were researching crops and pricing on crops, chemicals, all this other stuff. But some of these universities, especially at the university extension programs, collect the most abstract data. The department heads are right on the Internet. In seconds you can find it. I would call and talk to professors in the industry and ask them to explain the data to me.
 One thing we were looking at was the prices of sod. It doesn’t sound very interesting, but it is to me, because I am a nerdy data guy. The prices on sod were flat for decades. All of a sudden, one year like five years ago, the price of sod doubled or tripled, and then it went flat again for the next year. When you are an economist and trying to make sense of trends and see a huge blip for no apparent reason, I am on the phone talking to professors and interviewing them as to what is going on, and what they told me was that after decades of the same flat price, the growers decided they deserved more. Within the year, they doubled the prices to reflect how they should be now. I asked him if this was going to happen again in the next year. His answer was, “No, that was a major one-time adjustment.”
 I know the prices of sod probably don’t interest any nonprofit at all, but the point is that sometimes when you are looking at the data and something doesn’t make sense, you can find out from the universities and professors who spend 80 hours a week researching and writing academic papers and have brilliant minds who can give you a ton of information that any expert working for a nonprofit might not know. Don’t limit your options just to people in the industry on the street.
 Russell: Do you find that there is a great reluctance on the part of people coming to see you to actually go out and talk to people? They may rely on the Internet or other research. When you find that people are trying to put these ideas together that they are somewhat reluctant to talk to other people.
 Thomas: Sure. Or they don’t know what questions to ask, which is another reason they hire me to do it. But I will work with clients to develop questions. I do a lot of structured interviews, where I have a set list of questions and will call that industry expert and ask for 5-10 minutes to run through specifically what we need. That way, we can look at the data and say we interviewed 20 people with all the same questions. Even if the answers aren’t consistent, the questions were. That is what I do. I make sure that I’m getting the questions answered that matter to my clients. We brainstorm together.
 For people on their own who I give advice to, there is some reluctance to pick up the phone and talk to these people. It’s not for everyone. But cold calling takes some time to get used to.
 Russell: A lot of people won’t cold call. They don’t always know. I had a consultation with a gentleman that was referred to me today who wanted to do some programs. Some questions I was asking he didn’t quite have answers to. A lot of times people approach you and don’t know what questions to ask. It’s a huge advantage to work with you and 50 USA Markets. When you and your partners get that information. If they are not asking the right questions, they can come away with something that is completely off-center. It may be feasible when they are asking the wrong questions, but if they are asking the right questions, their idea might not be feasible.
 Thomas: Right. The wording on the questions that you ask matters. If you ask it in a certain way that will give you the intended result you want, or you can spend all this time asking all the wrong questions. That is more about thinking ahead and being smart and taking the time. Don’t rush it. There is nothing wrong with taking baby steps. That doesn’t mean you have to move slowly. That just means they are small, structured, disciplined, strategic steps and you are moving forward. I think people don’t take the time to think through what you really want. When you take someone else’s time and your own time, you have to be clear about what you want and what answers you want and why you want them.
 Russell: That is the value of having a trusted advisor like yourself. You get people to step back and take a breath. Social entrepreneurs are difference makers. They see a problem and want to get in there immediately and do something. They are excited about a large vision they have. They don’t always think about that sequencing or who else is doing that, which is something we talked about at great length. When you talk about some of those problems that society has that are pretty broad-based like homelessness, when you have someone who has a nonprofit out there to combat that, how do they go about differentiating themselves by using that research?
 Thomas: Speaking in vague terms, it depends on what data you’re getting. You might see a real need for it. People in your community are saying you need to start a nonprofit that will address this issue because this is big in our community, and I think it’s a national problem. Then you find that nation-wide—you are creating this nonprofit that you want to be nationwide and you have this grand strategy and maybe you are researching your competitors in Oregon and Maine and wherever else—but then you look at the data and talk to people and realize that it’s not an issue nationwide. But it is an issue to certain areas of the country. Or maybe it’s something very unique to your community in itself.
 That is why I say there is nothing wrong with starting out with baby steps. Maybe there is nothing wrong with just targeting your community, your school, your neighborhood, whatever it may be. Start there. Get some systems and processes down. There will be learning. Then you will build some systems. See what works and what doesn’t work. Then move on from there. When you start smaller, you don’t need as much funding so it’s a lot easier to get the funding you need to get going. Then when you want to look for those bigger investors, the donors, you will have a proven track record and references. You will have accomplishments. It depends on what you want to do, but it will be a smarter way to move. There is nothing wrong with starting small. No one gets into the nonprofit industry to make millions anyway. You’re not in it for the money. You want to get into it to create some type of positive impact on the nation, the world, but just get up and get moving. There is nothing wrong with that. Maybe it’s a year or five years down the road. You never know how fast you’re going to grow. Just starting and moving. You look at companies like Uber or smaller mom and pop stores or Walmart. They just started. Walmart has its own location that wasn’t big for many years, and then they hit a point where they were ready to expand. There is nothing wrong with that.
 Russell: *audio issue*Where you build on these successes by building step by step and having small successes and creating that track record. That is a cumulative impact. You become known for building *audio issue* Noble City Chamber of Commerce said, “We #thinknoble and we #takerisks.” That is what they do. They probably have a process for that. When you are working with someone who is not sure how to differentiate themselves, how do you guide them through that process?
 Thomas: It depends on a few things. First one being what are your competitors doing? Let’s brainstorm some different ways of doing things. Then talk to the other people in your industry and ask them about your ideas. That seems to be an underserved area. Why is no one targeting that area? You might find a real good reason that no one is targeting it again, so you don’t want to differentiate yourself that way. It’s a lot of back and forth.
 A mentor of mine once told me many years ago, “Follow your heart and you will never go wrong.” I think that a lot of people who are in the nonprofit industry get into it because they are driven by their heart. I think that a lot of times your heart will tell you how you really feel you want to differentiate yourself because you are unique. Maybe it’s best not to talk to other people and see what other people are saying you need to do, but you really need to know deep down. It depends on the situation, but those are a couple ways.
 Russell: We brought up the question of how competitors are getting funded. As an example, when you were looking at starting yours, how were your competitors getting funded? What were some of the steps you took to find out how your competitors were getting funded?
 Thomas: I found some of the companies who were competing with me were small person shops like myself. Now they are a company that I have a strategic partnership with and we are working on a big deal together right now, they do things with very low efficiency. They have offices all over the world, but they just keep one or two people in each country and everyone works remotely from home. They also have people that if they are working on a project and have someone whose office is in Shanghai, while they are sleeping, the person in Shanghai can take over. I have learned more about how they work and how they are more efficient just by talking to them and eventually getting in a deal with them. We jibed quite well, so we ended up going into business together, as far as strategic partners.
 I also researched people online and polled them, asked them questions. Pretend to be a potential client, or be honest about what you’re doing. Some of these guys do what I do but they have their main focus of their company. When I was getting started, I was focusing on international. A lot of small low-cost operations. I want to build my company even more. I have a lot of connections. I used to live in New York and Colorado. Then I have been partnering with people in Chicago, too. That is how I knew I wanted to do it. I am on the business end, not the nonprofit end. As far as my company is structured.
 Just find other organizations that are similar to yours and start asking them questions. Call them or email them. See if you can set up a time. Even calling some of these nonprofit associations and ask them about the best way to get started.
 I remember from living in Colorado there is the YNP, Young Nonprofit Professionals Network. If you are below 35 or 40, they have events every month, I think. Go to those events. Go where people like you are or where people you want to emulate are. They will give you amazing, invaluable advice. You will find out how they built their businesses. Find out what they do. Find out ways that will work for you.
 I knew I didn’t want to rent office space and start capital. That is not my style. For some people, it is. Seeing how other people operate in different business or nonprofit models is how you learn you want to run yours. Talk to people in your industry.
 Russell: That is pretty important. That is that first step to building a high-performance nonprofit is to build that solid foundation. It’s being sure what it is you want to do, who you are trying to help, and what that looks like. What you have on hand and what you don’t. Moving forward and finding out who is in your space. A lot of the market research also goes into board members, servant leaders, and volunteers, as well as donors. Your message has to resonate with all of the people who potentially impact it as well as the people who will be using the service. It’s amazing to me how little time some folks spend talking to people that will actually use the service. This is notoriously true for the government. They build it and can’t figure out why no one shows up.
 Thomas: Right. This brings me back to one of the very first nonprofits I was involved with. We created a nonprofit arts community. It was called Art House. I am originally from Cleveland. It was over by the Cleveland Zoo. It was very working-class to some borderline or below poverty people. Not the best schools in that area. We got funding from one of the councilwomen. Each ward got some funding to do what they wanted in the community. The director of the arts nonprofit convinced her this would be great for the community. They took that money and bought a foreclosed house, an old three-story house. How are you going to renovate it? They got together people from the community to volunteer. We were there on Saturdays spending time ripping up floors, ripping out walls. Everyone put their time in. That was a great way to do things and to save money. Then they renovated it.
 They brought local artists there to teach classes. They made a cut on what teachers charged to help the nonprofit, and they gave them the space as well. But also they developed a relationship with the local school where they would go to the students. I don’t know if they didn’t have an art studio or if there was an after-school program, but they would bring the students from the school to the arts community, which is a block or two away. The students there could do sculpting and bronzing and painting and jewelry making. Then they had an art show every few months where local artists could sell their art stuff. They could raise money, get the community involved, and target several segments at once for just the start-up money for buying that foreclosed house. In Cleveland, that’s not a whole lot of money.
 Russell: I grew up there, too. They used to call it the best location in the nation. We are hometown boys. That is pretty important. With that group, they brought a lot of people together. I have seen some nonprofit leaders who don’t necessarily have a lot of money but are great at mobilizing people. They have started to raise money over time because they are great and they do things with all volunteer staff. They don’t take the check out of it but they are not pulling money out of their pockets to make it run. They have some powerful, sustainable stuff going. That is because they knew how to talk to different people. Travis Smith who runs Impact here in Denver, Colorado is one that comes to mind.
 We are coming to the top of the hour. Every week it’s like this. We could go on for hours and I would be fascinated and learn to love more. But we have a limited time for our audience. What are some closing thoughts that you want to leave people with? Tell us how we can get in contact with you and work with you.
 Thomas: I guess a few parting thoughts: It certainly depends where you are in your development of your organization. I hate to beat a dead horse, but if you are in the beginning stages and have an idea, or if you have an idea and already have a 501(c)3 but haven’t done your research on your competition and are having a hard time finding funding, do that market research. Go out and talk to people. Talk to your local places, state agencies. Talk to the national trade associations. Go to the local nonprofit networking events. Find people that you want to emulate. Don’t be afraid to ask people for some of their time and be prepared at what you want to get out of a meeting. More often than not, I find people are more than happy to talk about themselves and their successes and help you out at the same time. If you haven’t done the secondary data, start looking for it. If you can’t find it, then find out where the people you are connecting with are getting their data. Start marking trends. Don’t be afraid to call some of the donors and find out where they see the trends. Would they ever fund your project? Who would fund your project? Donor organizations know other donor organizations, and you may find it’s a small world after all. If you are just starting with your idea, really try to think and start small. Don’t be afraid to start small, and talk to people who are doing similar work to what you are doing. That is what I could say.
 You can go to my website, which is 50usamarkets.com. You can also email me at tmoviel@50usamarkets.com. Or pick up the phone and give me a call. I still have a Colorado number from a long time ago. Call me at 303-819-9847. I am more than happy to talk to you, listen to your idea, learn more about what you have going on, learn more about your challenges. If I can’t help you out, I may very well know someone who can. Don’t be afraid to reach out. There are a lot of exciting ideas and projects out there, but you have to be relentless and unwilling to compromise. If there is something you want, go get it. It takes a lot of time and effort and some good, rational thinking.
 Russell: Very good. Very sage advice. That is wonderful. We have lots of connections. Colorado and Cleveland.
 Thomas: I know. it’s crazy.
 Russell: It’s just crazy. Wonderful work you’re doing out there. It’s very useful. My best friend’s dad was an agricultural economist. He taught at Oklahoma State. He retired about five years ago. When an economist approaches things, it’s different, but it’s thorough. Thomas, thank you very much for your hard work and all the great things you are doing out there. I look forward to talking to you again soon, Thomas.
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      <pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2017 20:16:32 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/85273f18-b329-11eb-9f0f-9b205f62855c/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Thomas Moviel on Due Diligence</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Thomas Moviel is the CEO of 50 USA Markets headquartered in Orlando, Florida and has a background in economic research and business consulting. His company has strategic alliances with trade consultants, international trade offices, economic development commissions, marketing channels, manufacturers and researchers throughout the USA, which gives clients a full-breadth of market entry services. Here's their website: http://www.50usamarkets.com
 The Interview Transcript
 Nonprofit Chat with Thomas Moviel
 Russell Dennis: This is Russ Dennis with the Nonprofit Chat for Tuesday, May 2. We have Thomas Moviel, CEO of 50 USA Markets, headquartered in Orlando, Florida. How is the weather down there, Thomas?
 Thomas Moviel: We are finally getting some rain today. We have been in a drought for the past month, which is very unlike Florida. For once, we are happy to see some rain.
 Russell: A drought is a way some nonprofits actually describe their funding. A big piece of that revolves around the fact that people don’t know they are there or what it is they are trying to do. When we talk about marketing in a business sense, a lot of people cringe. But communicating what you’re doing is pretty important. I know that you do a lot with all sorts of market research and helping people position themselves. Why would it be important for a nonprofit or people who are thinking about starting a nonprofit to do market research?
 Thomas: Know if there is a real need out there for their nonprofit and services and mission. There are tens of thousands of nonprofits out there already. Often people have a good idea and see a need and think it would be a great idea for a nonprofit. But maybe there are nonprofits out there doing that already. Maybe they are not serving your community or your school system or whatever it may be that you are focusing on. There might be that nonprofit out there doing very similar things to what you want to do who are already getting funding from somewhere. As all nonprofits know, funding is a scarce resource. I think when you are going to get up and get a nonprofit going, as the saying goes, there is nothing new under the sun, but there are many ways of doing things. New strategies. But I think it’s important to do your market research because you want to know is funding even viable? If there are dozens of nonprofits out there who you haven’t heard of, or one huge mammoth of a nonprofit that has a monopoly on an entire area, maybe your chances of getting funding are going to be slim, or maybe instead your opportunity instead is going—I don’t know how often they do this—to them and working as a subcontractor or talking to them about partnering. What are the areas they are focusing on and not focusing on? Market research is not just secondary research of pulling data. There will be a fair amount of data out there. But also doing primary research and not just on the Internet, but picking up the phone and making a lot of calls. That was a very long-winded answer, but I can talk about this for days. That is a start.
 Russell: There are lots of reasons to do that. When you came up with your concept of 50 USA Markets, when you were putting your business together, you did a lot of research. Talk about what that looked like and how your background played into that, how you built your team to fill in those areas you needed a bit of extra support in and so forth.
 Thomas: I hate to disappoint, but my business started overnight, and work fell into my lap. Once I got started, because I worked for more and more domestic companies and organizations nowadays, but I focus solely on the U.S. I started off working for foreign companies who were looking to enter the U.S. market. I have a strong international background that goes back to working in international development. I was a Peace Corps volunteer in the Carpathian Mountains for a couple years doing economic development work. Very grassroots stuff and working with a lot of nonprofits over there and local city councils and churches and city halls.
 Basically, once I started getting going, I knew I needed to expand my business. I was working for one trade office. How I started getting going was finding out- There are a ton of lists and information, so I found out who the other trade offices were, how they operated. I talked to more diplomats and people who I know who are working in the international field. I realized a lot of big countries that are big into trade like France or the UK have huge departments with people doing what I do. But it’s a lot of the smaller companies, like Latvia, for example. I have been talking to them lately. They had a trading office until 2008, and then they closed it down, so their companies had no representation in the U.S. I talked to my friends and got an in with one of my Latvian friends from grad school who had contacts in the government.
 Because I live in Orlando, I tapped into- There is not a huge international community, but I looked at what is happening in Miami. I thought logically about where trade happens. Well, it happens in Miami. What trade offices are located in Miami? Then I looked at the websites, finding out who runs them. Literally sending out emails and follow-ups. Picking up the phone and cold-calling. Sharing with them, “This is what I do. This is how I can help you. What are your current needs? What are your current challenges?” Talking more and more and getting through the vetting process to become a vendor for them. That is a big way that I have done things. Word of mouth. I don’t use a lot of social media. For a lot of people, it’s a big thing. Maybe I am old-school, but I just find who those people are, and I pick up the phone and call or email. That is how I do things.
 Russell: I have an economic development background working with the tribal nation myself. Economic development is broad. It’s about lifting all boats up, and you stepped in and filled a need that was there. That was critical. That has proven to be lucrative. There is so much international trade. But you turned your attention to domestic markets. To me, that you are focused on being at home and doing work that helps support nonprofits to educate them on some of the things they need to do to become more marketable. If you were talking to someone at a new nonprofit or a social entrepreneur that was thinking about starting a social enterprise as far as finding out what he needs to know, what would be some of the first steps you would give him/her to take in order to find out if their idea is viable?
 Thomas: I think a few things that I would do is obviously start with very basic research on nonprofits. It’s going to depend on what your focus is. Are you national or local? If you are only local, focus on your local market. I know what nonprofits are out there. I used to live in Colorado, and there are a lot of nonprofits there. There was the Colorado Nonprofit Association or something, and they had lists of all the nonprofits and what they do. You can usually find a local resource. If you are in a remote area and can’t find something, maybe call your local city hall or city councilman. Their office can often be helpful and let you know what nonprofits are out there. Especially if you are going to go more regional or national, there is a trade association for everything. I know I can find within a couple minutes some databases that are big proponents, and their job is propagating the general nonprofit industry and doing lobbying on a state level or national level. They will have databases and resources and find out who is doing this out there. You can find out who else is doing something similar to what you are doing. Or you might find they are doing the same thing, but then research the website and reach out to them. Talk to them. Hopefully they are not very controlling or competitive and will share what they do. Maybe you will find what they do is helpful but still doesn’t fulfill needs you see.
 Another thing I would do is talk to people in the industry and find out what the trends are. One way you can find out what the trends are is who is funding the nonprofits who are similar to you, the start-ups? What types of projects or nonprofits are they funding? You might have something great for capacity building. You want to do capacity building for businesses, but that is not what is being funded right now. You might then need to find: If there is no funding for capacity building or my idea, what are other nonprofits that have that kind of interest and latch on to and do some volunteer work, maybe learn more about the industry or maybe you will see how you can take your vision and adapt it. Maybe there is funding going on for female teenage empowerment, something along those lines. I don’t know how you can combine those two, but doing research on another topic that really interests you or what is being funded, you might begin to see the initial vision is not exactly what you thought it was going to be, and you might have to modify it where you can do some capacity building but in an area that is getting funded, which might increase your chances of getting funded. Does that make sense?
 Russell: It does. A lot of people *audio cut* important to look into there. I am in Colorado, and I am a member of the Colorado Nonprofit Association. They are members of the National Council of Nonprofits, which is where you can plug in and fan out and see other places. I am a firm believer in what you are talking about as far as finding other people who are doing the same thing. A big piece of market research is the competitive analysis, seeing the competition. Unfortunately, it can be a barrier to collaboration. Looking at that landscape, more than half the charities that are started fail. Why is understanding the competition important? What are some of the things you look for as far as somebody that might be a potential collaborator, as it were?
 Thomas: I think the biggest thing I look for in someone who might be a potential collaborator is someone who genuinely expresses interest in collaborating or just throwing it out there: Hey, do you see any collaborative opportunities or is there something you need help with? If you were in my position, what would you recommend I do? Don’t rely on just necessarily one person’s advice. Sometimes a person’s advice could be golden, or it could just be rubbish and very biased and they might have their own agenda for why they tell you what they do. Getting on why to research competitors is saving time, effort, and money. If you think you have a great idea and spend all this time getting your 501(c)3 up and running, you try to convince your friends to join your board, then you find out you can’t get any funding or you don’t have time to write the grants or you don’t know how to write the grants or you can’t hire someone to write the grants for you. It goes a lot into strategic planning of course. You need to know again who else is out there, where are they getting their funding from?
 If you think there is room for you and your nonprofit in that segment, getting to know your competitors is very much what it is that you find that they do well and that they don’t do well. Maybe you can see what they don’t do well or at all, and that is your in. You can start with a mission. It may be a little different than what you originally wanted to do, but that doesn’t mean you have to stick with that forever. It’s just an in. I think many times people are too rigid. It’s not just nonprofits, but it’s in business. The universe can point you in a direction that may be different than your initial vision. Again, maybe you start off wanting to work with young girls, but the funding is for young boys or pre-teens. Then you get going and over time you get to learn the business, you get a good reputation, you learn who the funders are, and then you can get into the area you are most passionate about.
 Getting back to the competition: What is their operating efficiency? You see there are nonprofits out there that don’t use the money that is donated to them very efficiently. That is something that when I am making a charitable donation, I don’t care if it is $10, but I want to know how much of my $10 is actually going to good use. Maybe 95% of it is going to good use, but what are the results? Are people getting what they are supposed to be getting, or whatever the mission of your nonprofit is? Where you can learn about it is through talking to people, going to meetings, research, reading reviews, finding out your competitors can be a big part of when you are writing your grants, you can say, “Our operating efficiency is going to be high because we have such low overhead. We feel we have done the research, and this area has been neglected. It’s an underserved population.” Your job of analyzing your competitors is not to put them down but to learn who they are and what their pros and cons are. That can only help you with positioning yourself, which will greatly increase the chances of your nonprofit being successful. A lot of being successful is getting the funding.
 Russell: Understanding the market. A nonprofit has a look and feel of a business. You are operating an organization that is there to deliver value. I don’t think the people are worried about how much you spend as long as it’s being spent in the way that is delivering impact that has been promised. I think that you have different people that define that value differently. It’s going to be different for individual donors versus private foundations versus the government or any other number of people that you interact with. How many nonprofits, when you are sitting down talking with them about this research and the different audiences that are out there that interface with that nonprofit, how do you walk them through that and have that conversation around value and understanding all of the different people they come into contact with?
 Thomas: It depends on the flow of that conversation. Getting into what makes you unique or your idea unique. Who else out there is doing that? Have you done research on people or funds? These large grant funding agencies, are they funding these types of projects? Have you talked to them? Have you made phone calls? Why not call and ask about trends? They make the decisions on what the trends are going to be based on what they feel the needs are. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Also getting down into funding. If you have a full-time job, do you have the time? If you don’t have the time, how are you going to make the time? That may be hiring a team. That may be spending every weekend for the next year or two working real hard to get it up and running. I have been part of the grassroots nonprofits that I got involved with before as a 501(c)3, and then I was a board member and on the finance committee, so I got to see a lot of the tough dealings that it went through.
 It comes back again to what separates you from the pack. How do you know there will be funding for you? When you talk about impact, that’s great, but what does impact mean? When I say you, I am speaking generically. Why do people care about what you do? You might think they need it, but do they think they need it? Is there a real clamoring in your community for this service? That can be a big tell-tale sign if this is something to pursue or to shut it down altogether. One of the danger points is getting so excited about your idea that seems amazing to you, and it’s not to knock it, but you have to run it through the mill and let people give you feedback in the industry and through your secondary research, too, to find out if the world is ready for your great idea. Take your time. Do your due diligence. Don’t rush things. You can file a 501(c)3 any day of the year. I think too often people get too far down the road before they find out it’s not sustainable, even if the community needs it. There is no guarantee with doing competitive analysis and research that you will have success. But you can help to increase your odds and chances. I am a big proponent of being efficient. What is the most efficient way to build it and be successful and not waste our time or money?
 Russell: That is sage advice. It is thorough. Looking at that as we are talking about that, what are some of the most common mistakes you see people make in their analysis? When you pointed out that they get excited about an idea, everybody needs my idea, a lot of times they just run with it without analysis. Some people do some research and run off and get stuck. What are some of the most common oversights and errors that you see them make in the process?
 Thomas: Not researching their competition enough. You really got to know them. Don’t be afraid to talk to them. With integrity, too. Maybe spy on them or go to one of their events or fundraisers. Find out how to do things because you can learn a ton.
 People only doing secondary research or only doing primary research. I talked to a friend and they said they don’t know anybody else who does this so I think it’s a good idea. Or people in my community are saying they want it. If you don’t know what your competitors are up to next, they may be targeting that need. Or nobody may be targeting that need because the funding isn’t there. Unless you have deep pockets yourself or have great relations with people with deep pockets, then that should be a concern of yours.
 If you are in a segment with a lot of players, only researching the two or three competitors, but there are a lot of other players there, too. If there are 100 different nonprofits, you don’t need to spend days on each one, but you better pick some of the main frontrunners, more than two, and find out what they’re doing. I build spreadsheets for my clients. Here is the organization, here is where their main location, any offshoots, who runs it, who is on their board, pros and cons, what are people saying, different programs they offer, funding, and funding sources. That is something people can be doing for themselves as well. Taking the time to build that database. Learning what your competitors’ offerings are is one good way of learning what their pros and cons are. That is an upside of talking to people, too. I think that answers your question.
 Russell: I also think that people are afraid of data. Before, it was hard to know where to look, and now there is data everywhere, some of it free and some of it requiring an investment. How do you work with someone when they are very much intimidated by the data? How do you walk them through that? if they got enough fear, they won’t bother to do it.
 Thomas: Data can be very intimidating. I even get intimidated by data sometimes, but you have to persist. One of the biggest ways that I work with data is being able to explain it in layman’s terms, as much as understanding what it means. Sometimes data doesn’t mean a whole lot. People think because I do market research that I am a marketing guy. I’m not. I am an economist by trade. That makes it different and gives me a different perspective in how I approach things. In economics, if at first the data doesn’t produce the results you want, you massage the data. If massaging the data doesn’t give it the results you want, you beat it into submission until it does what you want. You can get numbers to tell you anything you want.
 My point being make sure you are getting your data from a reputable source. It’s usually best to get it from multiple sources. Try to verify it by talking to other experts in the industry. Often it’s not hard to find someone on LinkedIn or through the trade associations or other people in the industry. Call the company and ask them how they come to the conclusions with the data because so much matters in terms of population size, where the data was extracted (if it was only the Northeast because if you follow any elections, you extract data from different parts of the country and get different results). None of it is right or wrong. It is what it is. Getting back to the point: I think there are a lot of paid services out there. I subscribe to a few. Some are incredibly expensive, so I don’t bother with that, and I can usually get what I need through other methods.
 Another thing that people don’t think about is there is a ton of databases out there that are free to the public through the library system. The data is mandated by law to be available for the public. The government gets it out through the public library system. Go talk to a librarian if you are looking for certain data.
 Another way is if you are by a local university, or call them if you’re not near any, find out the department. If you are focusing on youth, you can talk to their education department or their mental health counselor. They can share or help you out with getting the data for free because universities have access to it as well.
 Those are a couple ways to get around the system.
 Russell: I love the public library. When I was growing up way back when, that was what we had. That was before the information age. The research librarians are good friends, and that is an excellent use of tax dollars. Now there is a flood of information. People can have all sorts of data. They get it from other sources. They have it, but they don’t necessarily know how reliable each of the sources are. How do you help folks navigate some of the better places to look for data? When they come to you, how to interpret it and make sense of it?
 Thomas: I end up doing it for them often. The times that someone has come to me, depending on the situation, I dig through the data and figure out what it means. Sometimes some of the data is best left to experts in that industry. I might find a trade association and ask them to explain it to me.
 I used to work for an environmental economics firm before I started my own company. We were working on a very large project for the entire state of Florida. Universities were some of the best resources. I used to call all around the country. We were researching crops and pricing on crops, chemicals, all this other stuff. But some of these universities, especially at the university extension programs, collect the most abstract data. The department heads are right on the Internet. In seconds you can find it. I would call and talk to professors in the industry and ask them to explain the data to me.
 One thing we were looking at was the prices of sod. It doesn’t sound very interesting, but it is to me, because I am a nerdy data guy. The prices on sod were flat for decades. All of a sudden, one year like five years ago, the price of sod doubled or tripled, and then it went flat again for the next year. When you are an economist and trying to make sense of trends and see a huge blip for no apparent reason, I am on the phone talking to professors and interviewing them as to what is going on, and what they told me was that after decades of the same flat price, the growers decided they deserved more. Within the year, they doubled the prices to reflect how they should be now. I asked him if this was going to happen again in the next year. His answer was, “No, that was a major one-time adjustment.”
 I know the prices of sod probably don’t interest any nonprofit at all, but the point is that sometimes when you are looking at the data and something doesn’t make sense, you can find out from the universities and professors who spend 80 hours a week researching and writing academic papers and have brilliant minds who can give you a ton of information that any expert working for a nonprofit might not know. Don’t limit your options just to people in the industry on the street.
 Russell: Do you find that there is a great reluctance on the part of people coming to see you to actually go out and talk to people? They may rely on the Internet or other research. When you find that people are trying to put these ideas together that they are somewhat reluctant to talk to other people.
 Thomas: Sure. Or they don’t know what questions to ask, which is another reason they hire me to do it. But I will work with clients to develop questions. I do a lot of structured interviews, where I have a set list of questions and will call that industry expert and ask for 5-10 minutes to run through specifically what we need. That way, we can look at the data and say we interviewed 20 people with all the same questions. Even if the answers aren’t consistent, the questions were. That is what I do. I make sure that I’m getting the questions answered that matter to my clients. We brainstorm together.
 For people on their own who I give advice to, there is some reluctance to pick up the phone and talk to these people. It’s not for everyone. But cold calling takes some time to get used to.
 Russell: A lot of people won’t cold call. They don’t always know. I had a consultation with a gentleman that was referred to me today who wanted to do some programs. Some questions I was asking he didn’t quite have answers to. A lot of times people approach you and don’t know what questions to ask. It’s a huge advantage to work with you and 50 USA Markets. When you and your partners get that information. If they are not asking the right questions, they can come away with something that is completely off-center. It may be feasible when they are asking the wrong questions, but if they are asking the right questions, their idea might not be feasible.
 Thomas: Right. The wording on the questions that you ask matters. If you ask it in a certain way that will give you the intended result you want, or you can spend all this time asking all the wrong questions. That is more about thinking ahead and being smart and taking the time. Don’t rush it. There is nothing wrong with taking baby steps. That doesn’t mean you have to move slowly. That just means they are small, structured, disciplined, strategic steps and you are moving forward. I think people don’t take the time to think through what you really want. When you take someone else’s time and your own time, you have to be clear about what you want and what answers you want and why you want them.
 Russell: That is the value of having a trusted advisor like yourself. You get people to step back and take a breath. Social entrepreneurs are difference makers. They see a problem and want to get in there immediately and do something. They are excited about a large vision they have. They don’t always think about that sequencing or who else is doing that, which is something we talked about at great length. When you talk about some of those problems that society has that are pretty broad-based like homelessness, when you have someone who has a nonprofit out there to combat that, how do they go about differentiating themselves by using that research?
 Thomas: Speaking in vague terms, it depends on what data you’re getting. You might see a real need for it. People in your community are saying you need to start a nonprofit that will address this issue because this is big in our community, and I think it’s a national problem. Then you find that nation-wide—you are creating this nonprofit that you want to be nationwide and you have this grand strategy and maybe you are researching your competitors in Oregon and Maine and wherever else—but then you look at the data and talk to people and realize that it’s not an issue nationwide. But it is an issue to certain areas of the country. Or maybe it’s something very unique to your community in itself.
 That is why I say there is nothing wrong with starting out with baby steps. Maybe there is nothing wrong with just targeting your community, your school, your neighborhood, whatever it may be. Start there. Get some systems and processes down. There will be learning. Then you will build some systems. See what works and what doesn’t work. Then move on from there. When you start smaller, you don’t need as much funding so it’s a lot easier to get the funding you need to get going. Then when you want to look for those bigger investors, the donors, you will have a proven track record and references. You will have accomplishments. It depends on what you want to do, but it will be a smarter way to move. There is nothing wrong with starting small. No one gets into the nonprofit industry to make millions anyway. You’re not in it for the money. You want to get into it to create some type of positive impact on the nation, the world, but just get up and get moving. There is nothing wrong with that. Maybe it’s a year or five years down the road. You never know how fast you’re going to grow. Just starting and moving. You look at companies like Uber or smaller mom and pop stores or Walmart. They just started. Walmart has its own location that wasn’t big for many years, and then they hit a point where they were ready to expand. There is nothing wrong with that.
 Russell: *audio issue*Where you build on these successes by building step by step and having small successes and creating that track record. That is a cumulative impact. You become known for building *audio issue* Noble City Chamber of Commerce said, “We #thinknoble and we #takerisks.” That is what they do. They probably have a process for that. When you are working with someone who is not sure how to differentiate themselves, how do you guide them through that process?
 Thomas: It depends on a few things. First one being what are your competitors doing? Let’s brainstorm some different ways of doing things. Then talk to the other people in your industry and ask them about your ideas. That seems to be an underserved area. Why is no one targeting that area? You might find a real good reason that no one is targeting it again, so you don’t want to differentiate yourself that way. It’s a lot of back and forth.
 A mentor of mine once told me many years ago, “Follow your heart and you will never go wrong.” I think that a lot of people who are in the nonprofit industry get into it because they are driven by their heart. I think that a lot of times your heart will tell you how you really feel you want to differentiate yourself because you are unique. Maybe it’s best not to talk to other people and see what other people are saying you need to do, but you really need to know deep down. It depends on the situation, but those are a couple ways.
 Russell: We brought up the question of how competitors are getting funded. As an example, when you were looking at starting yours, how were your competitors getting funded? What were some of the steps you took to find out how your competitors were getting funded?
 Thomas: I found some of the companies who were competing with me were small person shops like myself. Now they are a company that I have a strategic partnership with and we are working on a big deal together right now, they do things with very low efficiency. They have offices all over the world, but they just keep one or two people in each country and everyone works remotely from home. They also have people that if they are working on a project and have someone whose office is in Shanghai, while they are sleeping, the person in Shanghai can take over. I have learned more about how they work and how they are more efficient just by talking to them and eventually getting in a deal with them. We jibed quite well, so we ended up going into business together, as far as strategic partners.
 I also researched people online and polled them, asked them questions. Pretend to be a potential client, or be honest about what you’re doing. Some of these guys do what I do but they have their main focus of their company. When I was getting started, I was focusing on international. A lot of small low-cost operations. I want to build my company even more. I have a lot of connections. I used to live in New York and Colorado. Then I have been partnering with people in Chicago, too. That is how I knew I wanted to do it. I am on the business end, not the nonprofit end. As far as my company is structured.
 Just find other organizations that are similar to yours and start asking them questions. Call them or email them. See if you can set up a time. Even calling some of these nonprofit associations and ask them about the best way to get started.
 I remember from living in Colorado there is the YNP, Young Nonprofit Professionals Network. If you are below 35 or 40, they have events every month, I think. Go to those events. Go where people like you are or where people you want to emulate are. They will give you amazing, invaluable advice. You will find out how they built their businesses. Find out what they do. Find out ways that will work for you.
 I knew I didn’t want to rent office space and start capital. That is not my style. For some people, it is. Seeing how other people operate in different business or nonprofit models is how you learn you want to run yours. Talk to people in your industry.
 Russell: That is pretty important. That is that first step to building a high-performance nonprofit is to build that solid foundation. It’s being sure what it is you want to do, who you are trying to help, and what that looks like. What you have on hand and what you don’t. Moving forward and finding out who is in your space. A lot of the market research also goes into board members, servant leaders, and volunteers, as well as donors. Your message has to resonate with all of the people who potentially impact it as well as the people who will be using the service. It’s amazing to me how little time some folks spend talking to people that will actually use the service. This is notoriously true for the government. They build it and can’t figure out why no one shows up.
 Thomas: Right. This brings me back to one of the very first nonprofits I was involved with. We created a nonprofit arts community. It was called Art House. I am originally from Cleveland. It was over by the Cleveland Zoo. It was very working-class to some borderline or below poverty people. Not the best schools in that area. We got funding from one of the councilwomen. Each ward got some funding to do what they wanted in the community. The director of the arts nonprofit convinced her this would be great for the community. They took that money and bought a foreclosed house, an old three-story house. How are you going to renovate it? They got together people from the community to volunteer. We were there on Saturdays spending time ripping up floors, ripping out walls. Everyone put their time in. That was a great way to do things and to save money. Then they renovated it.
 They brought local artists there to teach classes. They made a cut on what teachers charged to help the nonprofit, and they gave them the space as well. But also they developed a relationship with the local school where they would go to the students. I don’t know if they didn’t have an art studio or if there was an after-school program, but they would bring the students from the school to the arts community, which is a block or two away. The students there could do sculpting and bronzing and painting and jewelry making. Then they had an art show every few months where local artists could sell their art stuff. They could raise money, get the community involved, and target several segments at once for just the start-up money for buying that foreclosed house. In Cleveland, that’s not a whole lot of money.
 Russell: I grew up there, too. They used to call it the best location in the nation. We are hometown boys. That is pretty important. With that group, they brought a lot of people together. I have seen some nonprofit leaders who don’t necessarily have a lot of money but are great at mobilizing people. They have started to raise money over time because they are great and they do things with all volunteer staff. They don’t take the check out of it but they are not pulling money out of their pockets to make it run. They have some powerful, sustainable stuff going. That is because they knew how to talk to different people. Travis Smith who runs Impact here in Denver, Colorado is one that comes to mind.
 We are coming to the top of the hour. Every week it’s like this. We could go on for hours and I would be fascinated and learn to love more. But we have a limited time for our audience. What are some closing thoughts that you want to leave people with? Tell us how we can get in contact with you and work with you.
 Thomas: I guess a few parting thoughts: It certainly depends where you are in your development of your organization. I hate to beat a dead horse, but if you are in the beginning stages and have an idea, or if you have an idea and already have a 501(c)3 but haven’t done your research on your competition and are having a hard time finding funding, do that market research. Go out and talk to people. Talk to your local places, state agencies. Talk to the national trade associations. Go to the local nonprofit networking events. Find people that you want to emulate. Don’t be afraid to ask people for some of their time and be prepared at what you want to get out of a meeting. More often than not, I find people are more than happy to talk about themselves and their successes and help you out at the same time. If you haven’t done the secondary data, start looking for it. If you can’t find it, then find out where the people you are connecting with are getting their data. Start marking trends. Don’t be afraid to call some of the donors and find out where they see the trends. Would they ever fund your project? Who would fund your project? Donor organizations know other donor organizations, and you may find it’s a small world after all. If you are just starting with your idea, really try to think and start small. Don’t be afraid to start small, and talk to people who are doing similar work to what you are doing. That is what I could say.
 You can go to my website, which is 50usamarkets.com. You can also email me at tmoviel@50usamarkets.com. Or pick up the phone and give me a call. I still have a Colorado number from a long time ago. Call me at 303-819-9847. I am more than happy to talk to you, listen to your idea, learn more about what you have going on, learn more about your challenges. If I can’t help you out, I may very well know someone who can. Don’t be afraid to reach out. There are a lot of exciting ideas and projects out there, but you have to be relentless and unwilling to compromise. If there is something you want, go get it. It takes a lot of time and effort and some good, rational thinking.
 Russell: Very good. Very sage advice. That is wonderful. We have lots of connections. Colorado and Cleveland.
 Thomas: I know. it’s crazy.
 Russell: It’s just crazy. Wonderful work you’re doing out there. It’s very useful. My best friend’s dad was an agricultural economist. He taught at Oklahoma State. He retired about five years ago. When an economist approaches things, it’s different, but it’s thorough. Thomas, thank you very much for your hard work and all the great things you are doing out there. I look forward to talking to you again soon, Thomas.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Thomas Moviel</strong> is the CEO of 50 USA Markets headquartered in Orlando, Florida and has a background in economic research and business consulting. His company has strategic alliances with trade consultants, international trade offices, economic development commissions, marketing channels, manufacturers and researchers throughout the USA, which gives clients a full-breadth of market entry services. Here's their website: <a href="http://www.50usamarkets.com">http://www.50usamarkets.com</a></p> <p><strong>The Interview Transcript</strong></p> <p><strong>Nonprofit Chat with Thomas Moviel</strong></p> <p><strong>Russell Dennis:</strong> This is Russ Dennis with the Nonprofit Chat for Tuesday, May 2. We have Thomas Moviel, CEO of 50 USA Markets, headquartered in Orlando, Florida. How is the weather down there, Thomas?</p> <p><strong>Thomas Moviel:</strong> We are finally getting some rain today. We have been in a drought for the past month, which is very unlike Florida. For once, we are happy to see some rain.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> A drought is a way some nonprofits actually describe their funding. A big piece of that revolves around the fact that people don’t know they are there or what it is they are trying to do. When we talk about marketing in a business sense, a lot of people cringe. But communicating what you’re doing is pretty important. I know that you do a lot with all sorts of market research and helping people position themselves. Why would it be important for a nonprofit or people who are thinking about starting a nonprofit to do market research?</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> Know if there is a real need out there for their nonprofit and services and mission. There are tens of thousands of nonprofits out there already. Often people have a good idea and see a need and think it would be a great idea for a nonprofit. But maybe there are nonprofits out there doing that already. Maybe they are not serving your community or your school system or whatever it may be that you are focusing on. There might be that nonprofit out there doing very similar things to what you want to do who are already getting funding from somewhere. As all nonprofits know, funding is a scarce resource. I think when you are going to get up and get a nonprofit going, as the saying goes, there is nothing new under the sun, but there are many ways of doing things. New strategies. But I think it’s important to do your market research because you want to know is funding even viable? If there are dozens of nonprofits out there who you haven’t heard of, or one huge mammoth of a nonprofit that has a monopoly on an entire area, maybe your chances of getting funding are going to be slim, or maybe instead your opportunity instead is going—I don’t know how often they do this—to them and working as a subcontractor or talking to them about partnering. What are the areas they are focusing on and not focusing on? Market research is not just secondary research of pulling data. There will be a fair amount of data out there. But also doing primary research and not just on the Internet, but picking up the phone and making a lot of calls. That was a very long-winded answer, but I can talk about this for days. That is a start.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> There are lots of reasons to do that. When you came up with your concept of 50 USA Markets, when you were putting your business together, you did a lot of research. Talk about what that looked like and how your background played into that, how you built your team to fill in those areas you needed a bit of extra support in and so forth.</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> I hate to disappoint, but my business started overnight, and work fell into my lap. Once I got started, because I worked for more and more domestic companies and organizations nowadays, but I focus solely on the U.S. I started off working for foreign companies who were looking to enter the U.S. market. I have a strong international background that goes back to working in international development. I was a Peace Corps volunteer in the Carpathian Mountains for a couple years doing economic development work. Very grassroots stuff and working with a lot of nonprofits over there and local city councils and churches and city halls.</p> <p>Basically, once I started getting going, I knew I needed to expand my business. I was working for one trade office. How I started getting going was finding out- There are a ton of lists and information, so I found out who the other trade offices were, how they operated. I talked to more diplomats and people who I know who are working in the international field. I realized a lot of big countries that are big into trade like France or the UK have huge departments with people doing what I do. But it’s a lot of the smaller companies, like Latvia, for example. I have been talking to them lately. They had a trading office until 2008, and then they closed it down, so their companies had no representation in the U.S. I talked to my friends and got an in with one of my Latvian friends from grad school who had contacts in the government.</p> <p>Because I live in Orlando, I tapped into- There is not a huge international community, but I looked at what is happening in Miami. I thought logically about where trade happens. Well, it happens in Miami. What trade offices are located in Miami? Then I looked at the websites, finding out who runs them. Literally sending out emails and follow-ups. Picking up the phone and cold-calling. Sharing with them, “This is what I do. This is how I can help you. What are your current needs? What are your current challenges?” Talking more and more and getting through the vetting process to become a vendor for them. That is a big way that I have done things. Word of mouth. I don’t use a lot of social media. For a lot of people, it’s a big thing. Maybe I am old-school, but I just find who those people are, and I pick up the phone and call or email. That is how I do things.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I have an economic development background working with the tribal nation myself. Economic development is broad. It’s about lifting all boats up, and you stepped in and filled a need that was there. That was critical. That has proven to be lucrative. There is so much international trade. But you turned your attention to domestic markets. To me, that you are focused on being at home and doing work that helps support nonprofits to educate them on some of the things they need to do to become more marketable. If you were talking to someone at a new nonprofit or a social entrepreneur that was thinking about starting a social enterprise as far as finding out what he needs to know, what would be some of the first steps you would give him/her to take in order to find out if their idea is viable?</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> I think a few things that I would do is obviously start with very basic research on nonprofits. It’s going to depend on what your focus is. Are you national or local? If you are only local, focus on your local market. I know what nonprofits are out there. I used to live in Colorado, and there are a lot of nonprofits there. There was the Colorado Nonprofit Association or something, and they had lists of all the nonprofits and what they do. You can usually find a local resource. If you are in a remote area and can’t find something, maybe call your local city hall or city councilman. Their office can often be helpful and let you know what nonprofits are out there. Especially if you are going to go more regional or national, there is a trade association for everything. I know I can find within a couple minutes some databases that are big proponents, and their job is propagating the general nonprofit industry and doing lobbying on a state level or national level. They will have databases and resources and find out who is doing this out there. You can find out who else is doing something similar to what you are doing. Or you might find they are doing the same thing, but then research the website and reach out to them. Talk to them. Hopefully they are not very controlling or competitive and will share what they do. Maybe you will find what they do is helpful but still doesn’t fulfill needs you see.</p> <p>Another thing I would do is talk to people in the industry and find out what the trends are. One way you can find out what the trends are is who is funding the nonprofits who are similar to you, the start-ups? What types of projects or nonprofits are they funding? You might have something great for capacity building. You want to do capacity building for businesses, but that is not what is being funded right now. You might then need to find: If there is no funding for capacity building or my idea, what are other nonprofits that have that kind of interest and latch on to and do some volunteer work, maybe learn more about the industry or maybe you will see how you can take your vision and adapt it. Maybe there is funding going on for female teenage empowerment, something along those lines. I don’t know how you can combine those two, but doing research on another topic that really interests you or what is being funded, you might begin to see the initial vision is not exactly what you thought it was going to be, and you might have to modify it where you can do some capacity building but in an area that is getting funded, which might increase your chances of getting funded. Does that make sense?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It does. A lot of people *audio cut* important to look into there. I am in Colorado, and I am a member of the Colorado Nonprofit Association. They are members of the National Council of Nonprofits, which is where you can plug in and fan out and see other places. I am a firm believer in what you are talking about as far as finding other people who are doing the same thing. A big piece of market research is the competitive analysis, seeing the competition. Unfortunately, it can be a barrier to collaboration. Looking at that landscape, more than half the charities that are started fail. Why is understanding the competition important? What are some of the things you look for as far as somebody that might be a potential collaborator, as it were?</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> I think the biggest thing I look for in someone who might be a potential collaborator is someone who genuinely expresses interest in collaborating or just throwing it out there: Hey, do you see any collaborative opportunities or is there something you need help with? If you were in my position, what would you recommend I do? Don’t rely on just necessarily one person’s advice. Sometimes a person’s advice could be golden, or it could just be rubbish and very biased and they might have their own agenda for why they tell you what they do. Getting on why to research competitors is saving time, effort, and money. If you think you have a great idea and spend all this time getting your 501(c)3 up and running, you try to convince your friends to join your board, then you find out you can’t get any funding or you don’t have time to write the grants or you don’t know how to write the grants or you can’t hire someone to write the grants for you. It goes a lot into strategic planning of course. You need to know again who else is out there, where are they getting their funding from?</p> <p>If you think there is room for you and your nonprofit in that segment, getting to know your competitors is very much what it is that you find that they do well and that they don’t do well. Maybe you can see what they don’t do well or at all, and that is your in. You can start with a mission. It may be a little different than what you originally wanted to do, but that doesn’t mean you have to stick with that forever. It’s just an in. I think many times people are too rigid. It’s not just nonprofits, but it’s in business. The universe can point you in a direction that may be different than your initial vision. Again, maybe you start off wanting to work with young girls, but the funding is for young boys or pre-teens. Then you get going and over time you get to learn the business, you get a good reputation, you learn who the funders are, and then you can get into the area you are most passionate about.</p> <p>Getting back to the competition: What is their operating efficiency? You see there are nonprofits out there that don’t use the money that is donated to them very efficiently. That is something that when I am making a charitable donation, I don’t care if it is $10, but I want to know how much of my $10 is actually going to good use. Maybe 95% of it is going to good use, but what are the results? Are people getting what they are supposed to be getting, or whatever the mission of your nonprofit is? Where you can learn about it is through talking to people, going to meetings, research, reading reviews, finding out your competitors can be a big part of when you are writing your grants, you can say, “Our operating efficiency is going to be high because we have such low overhead. We feel we have done the research, and this area has been neglected. It’s an underserved population.” Your job of analyzing your competitors is not to put them down but to learn who they are and what their pros and cons are. That can only help you with positioning yourself, which will greatly increase the chances of your nonprofit being successful. A lot of being successful is getting the funding.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Understanding the market. A nonprofit has a look and feel of a business. You are operating an organization that is there to deliver value. I don’t think the people are worried about how much you spend as long as it’s being spent in the way that is delivering impact that has been promised. I think that you have different people that define that value differently. It’s going to be different for individual donors versus private foundations versus the government or any other number of people that you interact with. How many nonprofits, when you are sitting down talking with them about this research and the different audiences that are out there that interface with that nonprofit, how do you walk them through that and have that conversation around value and understanding all of the different people they come into contact with?</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> It depends on the flow of that conversation. Getting into what makes you unique or your idea unique. Who else out there is doing that? Have you done research on people or funds? These large grant funding agencies, are they funding these types of projects? Have you talked to them? Have you made phone calls? Why not call and ask about trends? They make the decisions on what the trends are going to be based on what they feel the needs are. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Also getting down into funding. If you have a full-time job, do you have the time? If you don’t have the time, how are you going to make the time? That may be hiring a team. That may be spending every weekend for the next year or two working real hard to get it up and running. I have been part of the grassroots nonprofits that I got involved with before as a 501(c)3, and then I was a board member and on the finance committee, so I got to see a lot of the tough dealings that it went through.</p> <p>It comes back again to what separates you from the pack. How do you know there will be funding for you? When you talk about impact, that’s great, but what does impact mean? When I say you, I am speaking generically. Why do people care about what you do? You might think they need it, but do they think they need it? Is there a real clamoring in your community for this service? That can be a big tell-tale sign if this is something to pursue or to shut it down altogether. One of the danger points is getting so excited about your idea that seems amazing to you, and it’s not to knock it, but you have to run it through the mill and let people give you feedback in the industry and through your secondary research, too, to find out if the world is ready for your great idea. Take your time. Do your due diligence. Don’t rush things. You can file a 501(c)3 any day of the year. I think too often people get too far down the road before they find out it’s not sustainable, even if the community needs it. There is no guarantee with doing competitive analysis and research that you will have success. But you can help to increase your odds and chances. I am a big proponent of being efficient. What is the most efficient way to build it and be successful and not waste our time or money?</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is sage advice. It is thorough. Looking at that as we are talking about that, what are some of the most common mistakes you see people make in their analysis? When you pointed out that they get excited about an idea, everybody needs my idea, a lot of times they just run with it without analysis. Some people do some research and run off and get stuck. What are some of the most common oversights and errors that you see them make in the process?</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> Not researching their competition enough. You really got to know them. Don’t be afraid to talk to them. With integrity, too. Maybe spy on them or go to one of their events or fundraisers. Find out how to do things because you can learn a ton.</p> <p>People only doing secondary research or only doing primary research. I talked to a friend and they said they don’t know anybody else who does this so I think it’s a good idea. Or people in my community are saying they want it. If you don’t know what your competitors are up to next, they may be targeting that need. Or nobody may be targeting that need because the funding isn’t there. Unless you have deep pockets yourself or have great relations with people with deep pockets, then that should be a concern of yours.</p> <p>If you are in a segment with a lot of players, only researching the two or three competitors, but there are a lot of other players there, too. If there are 100 different nonprofits, you don’t need to spend days on each one, but you better pick some of the main frontrunners, more than two, and find out what they’re doing. I build spreadsheets for my clients. Here is the organization, here is where their main location, any offshoots, who runs it, who is on their board, pros and cons, what are people saying, different programs they offer, funding, and funding sources. That is something people can be doing for themselves as well. Taking the time to build that database. Learning what your competitors’ offerings are is one good way of learning what their pros and cons are. That is an upside of talking to people, too. I think that answers your question.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I also think that people are afraid of data. Before, it was hard to know where to look, and now there is data everywhere, some of it free and some of it requiring an investment. How do you work with someone when they are very much intimidated by the data? How do you walk them through that? if they got enough fear, they won’t bother to do it.</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> Data can be very intimidating. I even get intimidated by data sometimes, but you have to persist. One of the biggest ways that I work with data is being able to explain it in layman’s terms, as much as understanding what it means. Sometimes data doesn’t mean a whole lot. People think because I do market research that I am a marketing guy. I’m not. I am an economist by trade. That makes it different and gives me a different perspective in how I approach things. In economics, if at first the data doesn’t produce the results you want, you massage the data. If massaging the data doesn’t give it the results you want, you beat it into submission until it does what you want. You can get numbers to tell you anything you want.</p> <p>My point being make sure you are getting your data from a reputable source. It’s usually best to get it from multiple sources. Try to verify it by talking to other experts in the industry. Often it’s not hard to find someone on LinkedIn or through the trade associations or other people in the industry. Call the company and ask them how they come to the conclusions with the data because so much matters in terms of population size, where the data was extracted (if it was only the Northeast because if you follow any elections, you extract data from different parts of the country and get different results). None of it is right or wrong. It is what it is. Getting back to the point: I think there are a lot of paid services out there. I subscribe to a few. Some are incredibly expensive, so I don’t bother with that, and I can usually get what I need through other methods.</p> <p>Another thing that people don’t think about is there is a ton of databases out there that are free to the public through the library system. The data is mandated by law to be available for the public. The government gets it out through the public library system. Go talk to a librarian if you are looking for certain data.</p> <p>Another way is if you are by a local university, or call them if you’re not near any, find out the department. If you are focusing on youth, you can talk to their education department or their mental health counselor. They can share or help you out with getting the data for free because universities have access to it as well.</p> <p>Those are a couple ways to get around the system.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I love the public library. When I was growing up way back when, that was what we had. That was before the information age. The research librarians are good friends, and that is an excellent use of tax dollars. Now there is a flood of information. People can have all sorts of data. They get it from other sources. They have it, but they don’t necessarily know how reliable each of the sources are. How do you help folks navigate some of the better places to look for data? When they come to you, how to interpret it and make sense of it?</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> I end up doing it for them often. The times that someone has come to me, depending on the situation, I dig through the data and figure out what it means. Sometimes some of the data is best left to experts in that industry. I might find a trade association and ask them to explain it to me.</p> <p>I used to work for an environmental economics firm before I started my own company. We were working on a very large project for the entire state of Florida. Universities were some of the best resources. I used to call all around the country. We were researching crops and pricing on crops, chemicals, all this other stuff. But some of these universities, especially at the university extension programs, collect the most abstract data. The department heads are right on the Internet. In seconds you can find it. I would call and talk to professors in the industry and ask them to explain the data to me.</p> <p>One thing we were looking at was the prices of sod. It doesn’t sound very interesting, but it is to me, because I am a nerdy data guy. The prices on sod were flat for decades. All of a sudden, one year like five years ago, the price of sod doubled or tripled, and then it went flat again for the next year. When you are an economist and trying to make sense of trends and see a huge blip for no apparent reason, I am on the phone talking to professors and interviewing them as to what is going on, and what they told me was that after decades of the same flat price, the growers decided they deserved more. Within the year, they doubled the prices to reflect how they should be now. I asked him if this was going to happen again in the next year. His answer was, “No, that was a major one-time adjustment.”</p> <p>I know the prices of sod probably don’t interest any nonprofit at all, but the point is that sometimes when you are looking at the data and something doesn’t make sense, you can find out from the universities and professors who spend 80 hours a week researching and writing academic papers and have brilliant minds who can give you a ton of information that any expert working for a nonprofit might not know. Don’t limit your options just to people in the industry on the street.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Do you find that there is a great reluctance on the part of people coming to see you to actually go out and talk to people? They may rely on the Internet or other research. When you find that people are trying to put these ideas together that they are somewhat reluctant to talk to other people.</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> Sure. Or they don’t know what questions to ask, which is another reason they hire me to do it. But I will work with clients to develop questions. I do a lot of structured interviews, where I have a set list of questions and will call that industry expert and ask for 5-10 minutes to run through specifically what we need. That way, we can look at the data and say we interviewed 20 people with all the same questions. Even if the answers aren’t consistent, the questions were. That is what I do. I make sure that I’m getting the questions answered that matter to my clients. We brainstorm together.</p> <p>For people on their own who I give advice to, there is some reluctance to pick up the phone and talk to these people. It’s not for everyone. But cold calling takes some time to get used to.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> A lot of people won’t cold call. They don’t always know. I had a consultation with a gentleman that was referred to me today who wanted to do some programs. Some questions I was asking he didn’t quite have answers to. A lot of times people approach you and don’t know what questions to ask. It’s a huge advantage to work with you and 50 USA Markets. When you and your partners get that information. If they are not asking the right questions, they can come away with something that is completely off-center. It may be feasible when they are asking the wrong questions, but if they are asking the right questions, their idea might not be feasible.</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> Right. The wording on the questions that you ask matters. If you ask it in a certain way that will give you the intended result you want, or you can spend all this time asking all the wrong questions. That is more about thinking ahead and being smart and taking the time. Don’t rush it. There is nothing wrong with taking baby steps. That doesn’t mean you have to move slowly. That just means they are small, structured, disciplined, strategic steps and you are moving forward. I think people don’t take the time to think through what you really want. When you take someone else’s time and your own time, you have to be clear about what you want and what answers you want and why you want them.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is the value of having a trusted advisor like yourself. You get people to step back and take a breath. Social entrepreneurs are difference makers. They see a problem and want to get in there immediately and do something. They are excited about a large vision they have. They don’t always think about that sequencing or who else is doing that, which is something we talked about at great length. When you talk about some of those problems that society has that are pretty broad-based like homelessness, when you have someone who has a nonprofit out there to combat that, how do they go about differentiating themselves by using that research?</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> Speaking in vague terms, it depends on what data you’re getting. You might see a real need for it. People in your community are saying you need to start a nonprofit that will address this issue because this is big in our community, and I think it’s a national problem. Then you find that nation-wide—you are creating this nonprofit that you want to be nationwide and you have this grand strategy and maybe you are researching your competitors in Oregon and Maine and wherever else—but then you look at the data and talk to people and realize that it’s not an issue nationwide. But it is an issue to certain areas of the country. Or maybe it’s something very unique to your community in itself.</p> <p>That is why I say there is nothing wrong with starting out with baby steps. Maybe there is nothing wrong with just targeting your community, your school, your neighborhood, whatever it may be. Start there. Get some systems and processes down. There will be learning. Then you will build some systems. See what works and what doesn’t work. Then move on from there. When you start smaller, you don’t need as much funding so it’s a lot easier to get the funding you need to get going. Then when you want to look for those bigger investors, the donors, you will have a proven track record and references. You will have accomplishments. It depends on what you want to do, but it will be a smarter way to move. There is nothing wrong with starting small. No one gets into the nonprofit industry to make millions anyway. You’re not in it for the money. You want to get into it to create some type of positive impact on the nation, the world, but just get up and get moving. There is nothing wrong with that. Maybe it’s a year or five years down the road. You never know how fast you’re going to grow. Just starting and moving. You look at companies like Uber or smaller mom and pop stores or Walmart. They just started. Walmart has its own location that wasn’t big for many years, and then they hit a point where they were ready to expand. There is nothing wrong with that.</p> <p><strong>Russell: *</strong>audio issue<strong>*</strong>Where you build on these successes by building step by step and having small successes and creating that track record. That is a cumulative impact. You become known for building *audio issue* Noble City Chamber of Commerce said, “We #thinknoble and we #takerisks.” That is what they do. They probably have a process for that. When you are working with someone who is not sure how to differentiate themselves, how do you guide them through that process?</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> It depends on a few things. First one being what are your competitors doing? Let’s brainstorm some different ways of doing things. Then talk to the other people in your industry and ask them about your ideas. That seems to be an underserved area. Why is no one targeting that area? You might find a real good reason that no one is targeting it again, so you don’t want to differentiate yourself that way. It’s a lot of back and forth.</p> <p>A mentor of mine once told me many years ago, “Follow your heart and you will never go wrong.” I think that a lot of people who are in the nonprofit industry get into it because they are driven by their heart. I think that a lot of times your heart will tell you how you really feel you want to differentiate yourself because you are unique. Maybe it’s best not to talk to other people and see what other people are saying you need to do, but you really need to know deep down. It depends on the situation, but those are a couple ways.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> We brought up the question of how competitors are getting funded. As an example, when you were looking at starting yours, how were your competitors getting funded? What were some of the steps you took to find out how your competitors were getting funded?</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> I found some of the companies who were competing with me were small person shops like myself. Now they are a company that I have a strategic partnership with and we are working on a big deal together right now, they do things with very low efficiency. They have offices all over the world, but they just keep one or two people in each country and everyone works remotely from home. They also have people that if they are working on a project and have someone whose office is in Shanghai, while they are sleeping, the person in Shanghai can take over. I have learned more about how they work and how they are more efficient just by talking to them and eventually getting in a deal with them. We jibed quite well, so we ended up going into business together, as far as strategic partners.</p> <p>I also researched people online and polled them, asked them questions. Pretend to be a potential client, or be honest about what you’re doing. Some of these guys do what I do but they have their main focus of their company. When I was getting started, I was focusing on international. A lot of small low-cost operations. I want to build my company even more. I have a lot of connections. I used to live in New York and Colorado. Then I have been partnering with people in Chicago, too. That is how I knew I wanted to do it. I am on the business end, not the nonprofit end. As far as my company is structured.</p> <p>Just find other organizations that are similar to yours and start asking them questions. Call them or email them. See if you can set up a time. Even calling some of these nonprofit associations and ask them about the best way to get started.</p> <p>I remember from living in Colorado there is the YNP, Young Nonprofit Professionals Network. If you are below 35 or 40, they have events every month, I think. Go to those events. Go where people like you are or where people you want to emulate are. They will give you amazing, invaluable advice. You will find out how they built their businesses. Find out what they do. Find out ways that will work for you.</p> <p>I knew I didn’t want to rent office space and start capital. That is not my style. For some people, it is. Seeing how other people operate in different business or nonprofit models is how you learn you want to run yours. Talk to people in your industry.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> That is pretty important. That is that first step to building a high-performance nonprofit is to build that solid foundation. It’s being sure what it is you want to do, who you are trying to help, and what that looks like. What you have on hand and what you don’t. Moving forward and finding out who is in your space. A lot of the market research also goes into board members, servant leaders, and volunteers, as well as donors. Your message has to resonate with all of the people who potentially impact it as well as the people who will be using the service. It’s amazing to me how little time some folks spend talking to people that will actually use the service. This is notoriously true for the government. They build it and can’t figure out why no one shows up.</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> Right. This brings me back to one of the very first nonprofits I was involved with. We created a nonprofit arts community. It was called Art House. I am originally from Cleveland. It was over by the Cleveland Zoo. It was very working-class to some borderline or below poverty people. Not the best schools in that area. We got funding from one of the councilwomen. Each ward got some funding to do what they wanted in the community. The director of the arts nonprofit convinced her this would be great for the community. They took that money and bought a foreclosed house, an old three-story house. How are you going to renovate it? They got together people from the community to volunteer. We were there on Saturdays spending time ripping up floors, ripping out walls. Everyone put their time in. That was a great way to do things and to save money. Then they renovated it.</p> <p>They brought local artists there to teach classes. They made a cut on what teachers charged to help the nonprofit, and they gave them the space as well. But also they developed a relationship with the local school where they would go to the students. I don’t know if they didn’t have an art studio or if there was an after-school program, but they would bring the students from the school to the arts community, which is a block or two away. The students there could do sculpting and bronzing and painting and jewelry making. Then they had an art show every few months where local artists could sell their art stuff. They could raise money, get the community involved, and target several segments at once for just the start-up money for buying that foreclosed house. In Cleveland, that’s not a whole lot of money.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> I grew up there, too. They used to call it the best location in the nation. We are hometown boys. That is pretty important. With that group, they brought a lot of people together. I have seen some nonprofit leaders who don’t necessarily have a lot of money but are great at mobilizing people. They have started to raise money over time because they are great and they do things with all volunteer staff. They don’t take the check out of it but they are not pulling money out of their pockets to make it run. They have some powerful, sustainable stuff going. That is because they knew how to talk to different people. Travis Smith who runs Impact here in Denver, Colorado is one that comes to mind.</p> <p>We are coming to the top of the hour. Every week it’s like this. We could go on for hours and I would be fascinated and learn to love more. But we have a limited time for our audience. What are some closing thoughts that you want to leave people with? Tell us how we can get in contact with you and work with you.</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> I guess a few parting thoughts: It certainly depends where you are in your development of your organization. I hate to beat a dead horse, but if you are in the beginning stages and have an idea, or if you have an idea and already have a 501(c)3 but haven’t done your research on your competition and are having a hard time finding funding, do that market research. Go out and talk to people. Talk to your local places, state agencies. Talk to the national trade associations. Go to the local nonprofit networking events. Find people that you want to emulate. Don’t be afraid to ask people for some of their time and be prepared at what you want to get out of a meeting. More often than not, I find people are more than happy to talk about themselves and their successes and help you out at the same time. If you haven’t done the secondary data, start looking for it. If you can’t find it, then find out where the people you are connecting with are getting their data. Start marking trends. Don’t be afraid to call some of the donors and find out where they see the trends. Would they ever fund your project? Who would fund your project? Donor organizations know other donor organizations, and you may find it’s a small world after all. If you are just starting with your idea, really try to think and start small. Don’t be afraid to start small, and talk to people who are doing similar work to what you are doing. That is what I could say.</p> <p>You can go to my website, which is 50usamarkets.com. You can also email me at tmoviel@50usamarkets.com. Or pick up the phone and give me a call. I still have a Colorado number from a long time ago. Call me at 303-819-9847. I am more than happy to talk to you, listen to your idea, learn more about what you have going on, learn more about your challenges. If I can’t help you out, I may very well know someone who can. Don’t be afraid to reach out. There are a lot of exciting ideas and projects out there, but you have to be relentless and unwilling to compromise. If there is something you want, go get it. It takes a lot of time and effort and some good, rational thinking.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> Very good. Very sage advice. That is wonderful. We have lots of connections. Colorado and Cleveland.</p> <p><strong>Thomas:</strong> I know. it’s crazy.</p> <p><strong>Russell:</strong> It’s just crazy. Wonderful work you’re doing out there. It’s very useful. My best friend’s dad was an agricultural economist. He taught at Oklahoma State. He retired about five years ago. When an economist approaches things, it’s different, but it’s thorough. Thomas, thank you very much for your hard work and all the great things you are doing out there. I look forward to talking to you again soon, Thomas.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3797</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Interview with Marketer David Dunworth About Branding and Leadership</title>
      <description>Interview with Marketer David Dunworth About Branding and Leadership
Discover How You and Your Teams Represent Your Brand
Learn how nonprofit leaders, boards and staff create negative brand recognition.
 
David Dunworth has been involved with nonprofit for many years and knows how branding and marketing are an integral piece of connection to stakeholders. He is a life-long learner and an expert in marketing. He’s an International best selling author. His site is http://marketingpartnersllc.com
 
 
Read the Transcript for the Interview
Hugh: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. My special guest tonight is David Dunworth. My co-host Russell Dennis is also here. Russell has been on this journey with me many times. I appreciate your being here, Russ. David, he will interject some questions along with me.
We pose the topic tonight of “Profit is not a dirty word.” Whoa. Before we get into that, I am going to ask you to tell people maybe three or four sentences about your background and why you should be talking about this topic so they can get some context on who David Dunworth is. I know you, and you have a lot of gifts to share. We are doing a snippet of those tonight. You and I have talked about how I encourage people to go away from the word “nonprofit” even though we understand that to describe the sector. It puts this in this scarcity thinking mode that we can’t make a profit. Speak a little bit. I am going more toward social benefit or social enterprise or tax-exempt charity. There are ways to describe us by not saying what we are not. What are we? David Dunworth, welcome to this interview. Say a little bit about your background, especially on this topic on branding and profit.
David: Sure. Thank you, Hugh. Thanks, Russell. Glad to be here. My name is David Dunworth. Like Hugh said, I have a few things I am aware of based on my history. After the Vietnam War was over, I went to the public sector in the private club business. From 1971 to 1997, I was in the private club business. I ran officers’ clubs and NCO clubs. When I got out, I stayed in the private club business. During that time, I worked with the board of directors for the Michigan Cancer Foundation, the Leukemia Society of America, the North Carolina Health Center, a few others. I am not a foreigner to what I like to call social enterprises, but the bulk of my experience is marketing. I work with some nonprofits. In fact, I work with one in Fort Collins, Colorado, and another one in Florida. We talk about profit.
We have to talk about profit in the charity business because that is where sustainability comes from. You can’t constantly be fundraising and burning it all up. You have to make enough revenue to build some reserves so that you have money that you can count on in those lean times. As you know, it gets leaner and leaner and tougher and tougher as more and more charities and social enterprises come to life. Everybody is fighting for similar dollars. Marketing and the word “profit” have to go hand in hand.
To give you an idea, up until five or ten years ago, most of the large national social enterprises were relying on their “brand”, their label, their logo to be their representative. A couple of the big ones, the American Heart Association and others, started building some directives and policies around their brand control and brand messaging. The key to the whole thing in my opinion is that most of today’s charities don’t really understand the word brand. Brand is a lot more than just the logo or the picture or whatever it is they believe they stand for. It looks like you want to interject something.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 01 May 2017 12:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8569862a-b329-11eb-9f0f-ef3158f56923/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Discover How You and Your Teams Represent Your Brand</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Interview with Marketer David Dunworth About Branding and Leadership
Discover How You and Your Teams Represent Your Brand
Learn how nonprofit leaders, boards and staff create negative brand recognition.
 
David Dunworth has been involved with nonprofit for many years and knows how branding and marketing are an integral piece of connection to stakeholders. He is a life-long learner and an expert in marketing. He’s an International best selling author. His site is http://marketingpartnersllc.com
 
 
Read the Transcript for the Interview
Hugh: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. My special guest tonight is David Dunworth. My co-host Russell Dennis is also here. Russell has been on this journey with me many times. I appreciate your being here, Russ. David, he will interject some questions along with me.
We pose the topic tonight of “Profit is not a dirty word.” Whoa. Before we get into that, I am going to ask you to tell people maybe three or four sentences about your background and why you should be talking about this topic so they can get some context on who David Dunworth is. I know you, and you have a lot of gifts to share. We are doing a snippet of those tonight. You and I have talked about how I encourage people to go away from the word “nonprofit” even though we understand that to describe the sector. It puts this in this scarcity thinking mode that we can’t make a profit. Speak a little bit. I am going more toward social benefit or social enterprise or tax-exempt charity. There are ways to describe us by not saying what we are not. What are we? David Dunworth, welcome to this interview. Say a little bit about your background, especially on this topic on branding and profit.
David: Sure. Thank you, Hugh. Thanks, Russell. Glad to be here. My name is David Dunworth. Like Hugh said, I have a few things I am aware of based on my history. After the Vietnam War was over, I went to the public sector in the private club business. From 1971 to 1997, I was in the private club business. I ran officers’ clubs and NCO clubs. When I got out, I stayed in the private club business. During that time, I worked with the board of directors for the Michigan Cancer Foundation, the Leukemia Society of America, the North Carolina Health Center, a few others. I am not a foreigner to what I like to call social enterprises, but the bulk of my experience is marketing. I work with some nonprofits. In fact, I work with one in Fort Collins, Colorado, and another one in Florida. We talk about profit.
We have to talk about profit in the charity business because that is where sustainability comes from. You can’t constantly be fundraising and burning it all up. You have to make enough revenue to build some reserves so that you have money that you can count on in those lean times. As you know, it gets leaner and leaner and tougher and tougher as more and more charities and social enterprises come to life. Everybody is fighting for similar dollars. Marketing and the word “profit” have to go hand in hand.
To give you an idea, up until five or ten years ago, most of the large national social enterprises were relying on their “brand”, their label, their logo to be their representative. A couple of the big ones, the American Heart Association and others, started building some directives and policies around their brand control and brand messaging. The key to the whole thing in my opinion is that most of today’s charities don’t really understand the word brand. Brand is a lot more than just the logo or the picture or whatever it is they believe they stand for. It looks like you want to interject something.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Interview with Marketer David Dunworth About Branding and Leadership</p><p>Discover How You and Your Teams Represent Your Brand</p><p>Learn how nonprofit leaders, boards and staff create negative brand recognition.</p><p> </p><p>David Dunworth has been involved with nonprofit for many years and knows how branding and marketing are an integral piece of connection to stakeholders. He is a life-long learner and an expert in marketing. He’s an International best selling author. His site is <a href="http://marketingpartnersllc.com/">http://marketingpartnersllc.com</a></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><strong>Read the Transcript for the Interview</strong></p><p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. My special guest tonight is David Dunworth. My co-host Russell Dennis is also here. Russell has been on this journey with me many times. I appreciate your being here, Russ. David, he will interject some questions along with me.</p><p>We pose the topic tonight of “Profit is not a dirty word.” Whoa. Before we get into that, I am going to ask you to tell people maybe three or four sentences about your background and why you should be talking about this topic so they can get some context on who David Dunworth is. I know you, and you have a lot of gifts to share. We are doing a snippet of those tonight. You and I have talked about how I encourage people to go away from the word “nonprofit” even though we understand that to describe the sector. It puts this in this scarcity thinking mode that we can’t make a profit. Speak a little bit. I am going more toward social benefit or social enterprise or tax-exempt charity. There are ways to describe us by not saying what we are not. What are we? David Dunworth, welcome to this interview. Say a little bit about your background, especially on this topic on branding and profit.</p><p><strong>David:</strong> Sure. Thank you, Hugh. Thanks, Russell. Glad to be here. My name is David Dunworth. Like Hugh said, I have a few things I am aware of based on my history. After the Vietnam War was over, I went to the public sector in the private club business. From 1971 to 1997, I was in the private club business. I ran officers’ clubs and NCO clubs. When I got out, I stayed in the private club business. During that time, I worked with the board of directors for the Michigan Cancer Foundation, the Leukemia Society of America, the North Carolina Health Center, a few others. I am not a foreigner to what I like to call social enterprises, but the bulk of my experience is marketing. I work with some nonprofits. In fact, I work with one in Fort Collins, Colorado, and another one in Florida. We talk about profit.</p><p>We have to talk about profit in the charity business because that is where sustainability comes from. You can’t constantly be fundraising and burning it all up. You have to make enough revenue to build some reserves so that you have money that you can count on in those lean times. As you know, it gets leaner and leaner and tougher and tougher as more and more charities and social enterprises come to life. Everybody is fighting for similar dollars. Marketing and the word “profit” have to go hand in hand.</p><p>To give you an idea, up until five or ten years ago, most of the large national social enterprises were relying on their “brand”, their label, their logo to be their representative. A couple of the big ones, the American Heart Association and others, started building some directives and policies around their brand control and brand messaging. The key to the whole thing in my opinion is that most of today’s charities don’t really understand the word brand. Brand is a lot more than just the logo or the picture or whatever it is they believe they stand for. It looks like you want to interject something.</p><p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3400</itunes:duration>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[304d940706daabde7db60666af5d4c21]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN5260250607.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Branding and Leadership for Nonprofits with David Dunworth</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/branding-and-leadership-for-nonprofits-with-david-dunworth</link>
      <description>David Dunworth has been involved with nonprofit for many years and knows how branding and marketing are an integral piece of connection to stakeholders. He is a life-long learner and an expert in marketing. He’s an International best selling author. His site is http://marketingpartnersllc.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 01 May 2017 11:36:13 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/85c50e0a-b329-11eb-9f0f-b33ea40e5ef1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>How Leadership Impact the Brand Positively and Negatively</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>David Dunworth has been involved with nonprofit for many years and knows how branding and marketing are an integral piece of connection to stakeholders. He is a life-long learner and an expert in marketing. He’s an International best selling author. His site is http://marketingpartnersllc.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>David Dunworth has been involved with nonprofit for many years and knows how branding and marketing are an integral piece of connection to stakeholders. He is a life-long learner and an expert in marketing. He’s an International best selling author. His site is <a href="http://marketingpartnersllc.com/">http://marketingpartnersllc.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3400</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[9e63a70622d99c135e0fb573683600cf]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6619216683.mp3?updated=1621009872" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>George Fraser Talks About Creating A Legacy Around Networking</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/george-fraser-talks-about-creating-a-legacy-around-networking</link>
      <description>Dr. George C. Fraser is Chairman and CEO of FraserNet, Inc; a company he founded almost 30 years ago with the vision to lead a global networking movement that brings together diverse human resources to increase opportunities for people of African descent. He is considered by many to be a new voice for African Americans and one of the foremost authorities on economic development, networking and building effective relationships. https://www.frasernet.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 29 Apr 2017 18:24:08 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/85dd0eba-b329-11eb-9f0f-133bfa5be5c9/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Fraser Net Is the Largest Network of African-Americans Anywhere</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Dr. George C. Fraser is Chairman and CEO of FraserNet, Inc; a company he founded almost 30 years ago with the vision to lead a global networking movement that brings together diverse human resources to increase opportunities for people of African descent. He is considered by many to be a new voice for African Americans and one of the foremost authorities on economic development, networking and building effective relationships. https://www.frasernet.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<strong>Dr. George C. Fraser</strong> is Chairman and CEO of FraserNet, Inc; a company he founded almost 30 years ago with the vision to lead a global networking movement that brings together diverse human resources to increase opportunities for people of African descent. He is considered by many to be a new voice for African Americans and one of the foremost authorities on economic development, networking and building effective relationships. <p><a href="https://www.frasernet.com">https://www.frasernet.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2516</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[8acd2d9e0b753fef591cd990de59f483]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN6412017978.mp3?updated=1621009840" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Top 5 Things that Block a Leader's Success</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-top-5-things-that-block-a-leaders-success</link>
      <description>Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share systems for overcoming the top 5 issues facing nonprofit leaders today.
 The 5 Top Things Blocking Leader's Success
  No Strategy
 No Leadership Development Plan
 Leader Burnout
 No Team Synergy
 Insufficient Capital
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 23 Apr 2017 16:03:19 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/85f893d8-b329-11eb-9f0f-1bd80ae1d6e6/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis Share Strategies for Success</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share systems for overcoming the top 5 issues facing nonprofit leaders today.
 The 5 Top Things Blocking Leader's Success
  No Strategy
 No Leadership Development Plan
 Leader Burnout
 No Team Synergy
 Insufficient Capital
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share systems for overcoming the top 5 issues facing nonprofit leaders today.</p> <p>The 5 Top Things Blocking Leader's Success</p> <ol> <li>No Strategy</li> <li>No Leadership Development Plan</li> <li>Leader Burnout</li> <li>No Team Synergy</li> <li>Insufficient Capital</li> </ol><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3671</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[a22e28f03393b585c95b1f1aac037787]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN3623194052.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Content Marketing for Nonprofits: Learning the Power of Story</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/content-marketing-for-nonprofits-learning-the-power-of-story</link>
      <description>We can accomplish more if we learn about story creation and distribution.   My guest this week for the #nonprofitchat, is James Craddock, Chief Relationship Officer of Key Difference Media.                 James Craddock                 Adept at integrating the power of story into any message, James forges thought models into technology using data driven tools, sales, merchandising, marketing, service elements, entertainment concepts and more; this approach empowers him to infuse massive leverage into any business model, using content marketing as his vehicle for success.   James understands the power of content and how to position that great content to cut through the noisy market to get noticed. We create great resources and need to share it with as many people as possible. James knows how.   Http://KeyDifferenceMedia.com    
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2017 20:48:25 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/860fc38c-b329-11eb-9f0f-bf1c7aaa1d10/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with James Craddock</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>We can accomplish more if we learn about story creation and distribution.   My guest this week for the #nonprofitchat, is James Craddock, Chief Relationship Officer of Key Difference Media.                 James Craddock                 Adept at integrating the power of story into any message, James forges thought models into technology using data driven tools, sales, merchandising, marketing, service elements, entertainment concepts and more; this approach empowers him to infuse massive leverage into any business model, using content marketing as his vehicle for success.   James understands the power of content and how to position that great content to cut through the noisy market to get noticed. We create great resources and need to share it with as many people as possible. James knows how.   Http://KeyDifferenceMedia.com    
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[ <strong>We can accomplish more if we learn about story creation and distribution.</strong>  <br> My guest this week for the #nonprofitchat, is James Craddock, Chief Relationship Officer of Key Difference Media.            <a href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001C3X2HzW1WdRyAOqi1N_WyTGraThIjI1sAQ6KihwOf1tSUjqxORYb5PabBhdHPCMRTtDk--vPr4KXqaPHK5o2EApoYFBFjikiCymfX7GBiL-18ulKkgHtPcrtveSyMouLI6x4RND6pHQnUaz1oq1ALpun7wWoJKYNbDewa-xyDp4=&amp;c=JlFSKMsr9E-N6y8auk5iO5FsZEvX4uuJGSPYpEOk8wE28MBOMJo55A==&amp;ch=8AkzATp7repg1n5Lrw4ECEZV6RJV3htuyYftzvuNQZv-iGxla2FHEA=="></a>     <strong>James Craddock</strong>                 Adept at integrating the power of story into any message, James forges thought models into technology using data driven tools, sales, merchandising, marketing, service elements, entertainment concepts and more; this approach empowers him to infuse massive leverage into any business model, using content marketing as his vehicle for success.   James understands the power of content and how to position that great content to cut through the noisy market to get noticed. We create great resources and need to share it with as many people as possible. James knows how.   <a href="Http://KeyDifferenceMedia.com">Http://KeyDifferenceMedia.com</a>    <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>4103</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[f6407d39629bcbc1b1671d9d83e58608]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN4838161894.mp3?updated=1621009891" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title> Four Steps That Will Insure Your Charity Gets Funded</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/-four-steps-that-will-insure-your-charity-gets-funded</link>
      <description>Ryan Donaldson is a brilliant creative mind that has had the opportunity to learn from some of the greatest experts in the world. After graduating early from high school and joining the US Army at the age of 17, Ryan’s sense of responsibility and patriotism leads him to maintain strong morals and dedication to his projects.
 Ryan has assisted in the build of several intellectual properties including the Gamification of the Human Psyche with Game Nation’s “Acclaim” system via Maslows Hierarchy of Needs. While the majority of Ryan’s projects are stealth behind the scene’s projects, he came highly recommended to the Game Nation team.
 His business philosophies focus on “Hub Networking” as well as an “Industry Marker” approach that allows him to keep tabs geographically on whose spending money, on what, and why. With powerful and versatile skill sets Ryan is able to focus on putting projects on the map and making them profitable.
 leaving the Game Nation Executive Board beside such industry leaders as Daniel T. Ruke, Cole Peacock, Marc Mencher, Robert Ward, and Charles Webber Ryan maintained his position as an Investor in Game Nation and now focused on a successful Sponsorship Company, R&amp;R Resources, LLC.
 Projects Ryan has been a part of have been featured on ABC, FOX, Kotaku, Pulse, Inc 500.
 Questions posted during the call:
 1. Relationships are critical to building any type of organization. Why are so many nonprofits bad at it?
 2. What would you say are the fundamental building blocks of relationships in business, and how does each one fit in the process?
 3. Where do you see organizations of all types needing the most work to improve their relationship building skills?
 4. What are the things you see organizations who want to support nonprofits having the most difficulty finding?
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 03 Apr 2017 16:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/86277310-b329-11eb-9f0f-ab144317c8e5/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Interview with Ryan Donaldson</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Ryan Donaldson is a brilliant creative mind that has had the opportunity to learn from some of the greatest experts in the world. After graduating early from high school and joining the US Army at the age of 17, Ryan’s sense of responsibility and patriotism leads him to maintain strong morals and dedication to his projects.
 Ryan has assisted in the build of several intellectual properties including the Gamification of the Human Psyche with Game Nation’s “Acclaim” system via Maslows Hierarchy of Needs. While the majority of Ryan’s projects are stealth behind the scene’s projects, he came highly recommended to the Game Nation team.
 His business philosophies focus on “Hub Networking” as well as an “Industry Marker” approach that allows him to keep tabs geographically on whose spending money, on what, and why. With powerful and versatile skill sets Ryan is able to focus on putting projects on the map and making them profitable.
 leaving the Game Nation Executive Board beside such industry leaders as Daniel T. Ruke, Cole Peacock, Marc Mencher, Robert Ward, and Charles Webber Ryan maintained his position as an Investor in Game Nation and now focused on a successful Sponsorship Company, R&amp;R Resources, LLC.
 Projects Ryan has been a part of have been featured on ABC, FOX, Kotaku, Pulse, Inc 500.
 Questions posted during the call:
 1. Relationships are critical to building any type of organization. Why are so many nonprofits bad at it?
 2. What would you say are the fundamental building blocks of relationships in business, and how does each one fit in the process?
 3. Where do you see organizations of all types needing the most work to improve their relationship building skills?
 4. What are the things you see organizations who want to support nonprofits having the most difficulty finding?
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Ryan Donaldson</strong> is a brilliant creative mind that has had the opportunity to learn from some of the greatest experts in the world. After graduating early from high school and joining the US Army at the age of 17, Ryan’s sense of responsibility and patriotism leads him to maintain strong morals and dedication to his projects.</p> <p>Ryan has assisted in the build of several intellectual properties including the Gamification of the Human Psyche with Game Nation’s “Acclaim” system via Maslows Hierarchy of Needs. While the majority of Ryan’s projects are stealth behind the scene’s projects, he came highly recommended to the Game Nation team.</p> <p>His business philosophies focus on “Hub Networking” as well as an “Industry Marker” approach that allows him to keep tabs geographically on whose spending money, on what, and why. With powerful and versatile skill sets Ryan is able to focus on putting projects on the map and making them profitable.</p> <p>leaving the Game Nation Executive Board beside such industry leaders as Daniel T. Ruke, Cole Peacock, Marc Mencher, Robert Ward, and Charles Webber Ryan maintained his position as an Investor in Game Nation and now focused on a successful Sponsorship Company, R&amp;R Resources, LLC.</p> <p>Projects Ryan has been a part of have been featured on ABC, FOX, Kotaku, Pulse, Inc 500.</p> <p>Questions posted during the call:</p> <p>1. Relationships are critical to building any type of organization. Why are so many nonprofits bad at it?</p> <p>2. What would you say are the fundamental building blocks of relationships in business, and how does each one fit in the process?</p> <p>3. Where do you see organizations of all types needing the most work to improve their relationship building skills?</p> <p>4. What are the things you see organizations who want to support nonprofits having the most difficulty finding?</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3688</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[c4dd8075e667d3be9dafca34aa20b614]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN8185618588.mp3?updated=1621009880" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>The Legacy of Napoleon Hill</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-legacy-of-napoleon-hill</link>
      <description>Hugh Ballou interviews Don Green, President of the Napoleon Hill Foundation about running the foundation as an example of how to use business systems to support the work of a nonprofit.
 
 Don Green, Executive Director
 Napoleon Hill Foundation
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2017 02:41:52 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/864b3282-b329-11eb-9f0f-7fbb121aa1e9/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Don Green from the Napoleon Hill Foundation</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Hugh Ballou interviews Don Green, President of the Napoleon Hill Foundation about running the foundation as an example of how to use business systems to support the work of a nonprofit.
 
 Don Green, Executive Director
 Napoleon Hill Foundation
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p></p> <p>Hugh Ballou interviews Don Green, President of the Napoleon Hill Foundation about running the foundation as an example of how to use business systems to support the work of a nonprofit.</p> <p></p> <p><strong>Don Green, Executive Director</strong></p> <p><strong>Napoleon Hill Foundation</strong></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2458</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[61b1a58d80f6709939f3a0d864dee18e]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2711749067.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>Extreme Leadership at Work and Beyond with Steve Farber</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/extreme-leadership-at-work-and-beyond-with-steve-farber</link>
      <description>Here are the #nonprofitchat questions for the interview:  What is Extreme Leadership?
 Why is love important in business and leadership?
 What’s the best leadership advice you’ve ever received?
 Are leaders born or made?
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/86639778-b329-11eb-9f0f-0728beb1d20f/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Leadership Is More Than  a Title!</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Here are the #nonprofitchat questions for the interview:  What is Extreme Leadership?
 Why is love important in business and leadership?
 What’s the best leadership advice you’ve ever received?
 Are leaders born or made?
 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[Here are the #nonprofitchat questions for the interview: <ul> <li>What is Extreme Leadership?</li> <li>Why is love important in business and leadership?</li> <li>What’s the best leadership advice you’ve ever received?</li> <li>Are leaders born or made?</li> </ul><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3460</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[0bfd6a2a5789025306353fee2747bed3]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN7259771812.mp3?updated=1621009817" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leaders Making a Difference: A Story of Community Empowerment</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/leaders-making-a-difference-a-story-of-community-empowerment</link>
      <description>A story of how a local Captain at the Montgomery County Sheriff's jail made a difference in the lives of those less advantaged and motivated other agencies and charities to participate.
 Here's the transcript.
 Interview with Captain Kim Haug
 Hugh: This is Hugh Ballou, and my guest for this session is Captain Kim Haug. I am at the Montgomery County Sheriff’s department. I met Kim the other day, and I was quite impressed with the work she has done outside of her regular job, demonstrating how leaders can make a difference. Let’s start with talking about what your job title is here.
 Kim: I am captain, but my job title is the Chief Correctional Officer of the Montgomery County Jail.
 Hugh: That’s your work-work. But we are going to talk about what you have done outside your work. Do you have a title or description for that program we are going to talk about?
 Kim: The program that we have started is called Effort. It stands for Enabling Friends for Our Response Teams.
 Hugh: Enabling Friends for Our Response Teams. Clever. What was the situation that came up that was the inspiration to start this?
 Kim: We have a lady who works for the sheriff’s office. She has a son who is autistic. She requested that we do something for the special needs community. She didn’t give us a whole lot other than that. she just wanted us to do something with the special needs community, so that started some thoughts going and some programs. We started thinking of some things. We got together with a lot of people in the community and came up with the EFFORT program.
 Hugh: Whoa. So she came and talked to you about it. What was the problem you were addressing?
 Kim: She had had a couple bad experiences with her son. He is a teenager, and they live in a town. There had been a couple incidents with law enforcement. They were pretty scary for her. At one point, her son was not responding to a command, not because he didn’t understand it, but because he was afraid. He had something in his hand that was like a comfort item, and the command was to put it down. He refused to do it. The situation started to escalate pretty quickly. She was concerned that maybe in the future, ash e got older, that situation could have gone really bad. She just wanted us to do something for the special needs community, including individuals with intellectual disabilities because she saw the need.
 Hugh: We read about things when they go bad with law enforcement. We want to balance it out with things that we do to prevent those situations. This is really important. what was next? How did you start this initiative?
 Kim: First, I approached the sheriff with the idea of having a fun day at the sheriff’s department. I the nquickly realized that I was out of my element with the special needs community, that I needed some help and some guidance, as I didn’t want to do anything wrong. I knew that I would have one chance at this. You mess this up, and that could be really bad. I invited a lo of people from the special needs community, from schools, the Special Olympics, DARS and IDA and some other agencies in our area that work with special needs, along with law enforcement and first responders. We had a big brainstorming session. I told them some ideas, what I would like to do. They were really excited about it. We went forward with it, but always with the guidance of the people in the special needs community already to make sure we did everything that was going to be helpful and right, and that we wouldn’t do anything silly that would make the situation worse.
 Hugh: Our audience are people who are leaders in various types of organizations like those that you reached out to. What is DARS and IDA?
 Kim: DARS is the Department of Aging and Rehabilitative Services. What they do is they work with a lot of individuals who have special needs on assisting them and getting them employment. IDA is Individuals with Disabilities Association, and they do a lot of really neat programs for individuals with disabilities. Special Olympics, everyone knows what that is. We invited those people to come and guide us along.
 Hugh: One of the things that we highlight in our work is that leaders are first and foremost people with influence. You did not have any official relationship that you could say, “Do this.” You just influenced them because of your clarity of vision for this. Speak to that. They voluntarily stepped up, is what I am hearing.
 Kim: They did. When we met, I first shared with them what I wanted ot do and the purpose of what I wanted to do. I wanted to bridge that gap. I wanted to reach out to the special needs community because as I started this research, I found out that there wasn’t a lot of trust between the individuals and the families of the individuals with special needs and law enforcement due to those bad experiences. I was just afraid that we wouldn’t know how to handle it. I am not just talking about law enforcement, but fire and rescue as well. Those can be really scary situations for anyone, but you throw in the special needs aspect. Even a parent getting pulled over for a parcking ticket could be traumatic for somebody with autism. When you pull over behind that car with the lights and the siren. Car accidents. A fire in the home. We bring in an element that is unfamiliar and scary. What I wanted to do was on this day, make sure there were fire trucks and abumalcnes and police cars and officers in uniform and everybody was in uniform. The firemen were in uniform, the rescue people were in what they wear, and law enforcement was in uniform. They got to ineract with us on a fun level, and they got to learn about the jobs that we do. They did the obstacle course that the law enforcement officers do when we go to the academy. They got to use the fire hose. It was just incredible what the fire department did. They got to go into the back of an ambulance and see it. They had a photo with the cops, where they got their picture taken and got to take it home with them when they left the site. They got certificates and medals and awards for doing all the obstacle courses.
 What I wanted to do was like I said bridget that gap and show them that we are not scary, that we are not there to make a situation worse, but rather, make it better.
 Hugh: This is an activity, or is it housed under the sheriff’s department or connected to any official entity?
 Kim: It’s a program that the sheriff’s office does. It’s something that we do in partnership with all first responders in the county.
 Hugh: It’s your baby?
 Kim: It’s my baby.
 Hugh: We’re talking in 2017 early in the year. How long has it been going?
 Kim: Last year was our pilot program. We did it in jUly of last year. We start meeting next week to start planning this year’s EFFORT event.
 Hugh: What will you do to create sustainability and enable transitions as you bring on more programs nad need other leaders to take other parts? What will you do to introduce that sustainability with the transitions? People aren’t goin to do it forever, so how do you bring on fresh people and have a rotation system?
 Kim: One of the things that we do throughout the year is we do training for the new officers who come in. one of the things we will definitely do is it’s open to volunteers. Anyone can come and continue to go in the fire departments and rescue departments and provide training. Ongoing training bout the need that we have in our community that we need to be better trained to handle individuals with disabilities. We want those families to trust us on that level. What we will definitely be doing is the continuing training, which will be the key part of keeping this going.
 Hugh: Good. I see you going over and above the training because you have created and built on relationships.
 Kim: The other organizations that we have developed relationships with have been phenomenal. I have actually been relaly surprised at how important those connections with the DARS agency and the IDA and Special Olympics have been. We partner with them in some things, but it has been small. The partnership with them has been huge. We have used them for training purposes, and they have used us for training purposes on their side. But the partnership that the sheriff’s office has wit hthese agencies now is phenomenal. I see that continuing to grow as well. Different programs will change throughout because we already have this established partnership. That will make transitions easier for programs in the future.
 Hugh: Good. One of the strong leadership principles I’m seeing is that you don’t have to be the expert in everything. You are the visionary, and you brought in people with particular expertise to fill in those gaps.
 Kim: Yes. It was the smartest thing that I have learned to do. If you want to do something, you find the people who are really good at it and partner with them.
 Hugh: That’s a key statement right there. Leaders are catalysts for some of the things to happen. What I am hearing is you were very clear on what the need was and what we can do about it. But you let other people play into the content and the methodologies and the process piece wit hexpertise. Part of what I wanted to highlight in this interview is we sometimes get in a vacuum with our churches, our charities, thinking, whether it’s government or other, that we have to do it all. The key message I want to highlight here is this is a collaborative community effort.
 Kim: Correct.
 Hugh: Collaboration really enables us all to do a whole lot more. What are some of the results that you have seen so far?
 Kim: We extended our program to a degree by doing a GTO program, called Growth through Opportunity, which was really positive for the sheriff’s office, and also for three individuals. Through the DARS relationships, we had three cadets come through a program through the sheriff’s office called Grow Through Opportunity. We took in three cadets, all three with intellectual disabilities, and we spent four month with them where they came in and learned job skills and social skills through job coaches. The job coaches were the deputies. They would spend several hours a day with us, Monday through Thursday, and they graduated the program. The whole purpose of that was to get them job-ready. We went to different agencies throughout the county, other police agencies and the fire departments, and they would have work for them to do. Under the supervision of the job coach, they did jobs. These three individuals are actually out there interviewing for jobs now, aso they learned everything from eye contact to shaking hands to how to fill out applications to interacting with strangers and how to talk to business leaders when they go into the county. That was a pretty neat program. That is a huge thing that has come out of the EFFORT program and the training we have done.
 I have also seen the positive impact on the deputies who work here and the experiences they have had with individuals in the community. When they have had to go on calls and they have encountered someone with autism or another disability and their confidence on being able ot handle that better and knowing how, I have been trained on how to interact with somebody who is autistic, and they feel comfortable in doing that.
 Hugh: Something most of us don’t even think about. As you are talking about the skills about eye contact and all of that, we could all use that, but that is giving people a leg up who might not have been taught that.
 Kim: Or it’s more difficult for them due to their disability. It’s harder for them to reach out and hsake someone’s hand. They may know they are supposed to, but it’s the reminder that they should be doing this.
 Hugh:That’s huge. We want to reach out and do something for other people. What you said also is there is a change internally with people who are working with these people. Have you ahd any stories from any of your officers?
 Kim: I do. I had one deputy who called me after an interaction. The call was a teenager who was out of control. You never eally know, when you are going on those calls, what you are going to encounter. Are they just acting up, or are they really out of control? When he got there, he found out the young lady was autistic. He remembered his training, and you feel more confident knowing you know how to handle the situation the way it should be handled. He left the situation, and it was positive for the mother, the daughter, and the deputy. They have an ongoing relationship. We now know that if we are called to this house, that his young lady has autism, and we know some of her triggers, some of the things we can do or say to calm her down, and it is a positive all the way around.
 The flip side of it is we are better trained to handle these situations. The parents see us as somebody who is coming in to help and not make a situation worse.
 Hugh: What is your vision for the future? How do you see this going in the future? Do you see it growing or impacting different segments? Do you see it impacting more people without growing? What do you see?
 Kim: I definitely see it growing and impacting more people. I would love for this to grow into other counties. I would love to see other counties either come here for the training or open up their departments for the training, for the GTO program, or for something similar to EFFORT. I did have a lady from South Carolina call me and ask me how to do it because she wanted to do it there for her department. That was very encouraging, and that is what I would like to see continue. I would like to see all departments realize there is a whole segment of our community that we don’t normally deal with unless it is an accident or something like that. it’s not necessarily the criminal side of it, but there is a whole segment of our community that really desires to have a relationship with us and that we need to have that trust. They need to be able to trust us to handle that situation well.
 Hugh: There is a natural barrier between law enforcement and citizen. When you are on the street and see a police car, you slow down. We are always thinking about ourselves. What am I doing wrong? We are in a different mindset. What I am hearing you saying is you are bridging some of those gaps.
 Kim: Fighting crime is a huge part of what law enforcement does. We do enforce the laws of the land, the speed limits. We do have to interact in that way. That is not all that we do. We are here to serve the community. With Sheriff Pardon’s vision for where he wants to take this department is definitely in that direction: being there for the community. We do have that one part of what we do, but it’s only a part of what we do. It’s not all of what we do. We serve the community, and there was a need in our community to connect with the special needs individuals. We are trying to bridge that gap and fulfill that need.
 Hugh: A person in your organization brought that need to your attention, and you paid attention. Why you? Why did you say, “I want to do this?” What was inside you that was the voice that said, “Kim, do this”?
 Kim: She came to me a few times. She was pretty persistent. Then I started to think about it. We had had a meeting at the beginning of the year with the sheriff, and he laid out his vision for the sheriff’s office. It was definitely community-driven. That was at the forefront of my mind, that we were going in a different direction. But she came to me a few times. I know her son on a personal level. I have met him. I guess it just struck achord that we do need to do this. Why not me?
 Hugh: You don’t know this, but I talk about leadership, and I summarize it in three things. Leaders get things done. Leaders figure out how things get done. That is the illusive part. Leaders influence others. I see all those traits. You didn’t just say, “Oh, there’s an idea.” You took action. So if there are people ou there that are hearing this story, what advice would you give people if they have got an idea? What is the leadership piece that you would enourage people to embrace to move on the idea?
 Kim: It’s really hard to say because I feel like this is part of who I am. If there is a need, look for ways to address it. I have come across some things where I have handed them off. There is a need here. You look for ways that you can address it, and sometimes there are things that I can move forward with. Sometimes I see somebody who is better equipped to move forward with it, and you hadn it off. But you still want to follow through and make sure that need gets met. It doesn’t take much. Get people around you who are experts and say, “Hey, this is a need. This is how I see we can fix it.” Then start getting some advice and some experts around you and a good team. You just get it done.
 Hugh: A good team. Well, this is inspirational. Thank you for spending time to share the story and your humility in getting out of the way and letting it happen. You brought people together around a vision, and you have been a catalyst for things to happen. I am sure you have been a cheerleader when things didn’t quite go together at some point. We are in the sheriff’s department and are watching sirens. That is the validation of where we are.
 Any other things you want to share before we end this story?
 Kim: Thank you so much for the opportunity to share it. If I can promote EFFORT, I am going to promote it any place that I can because I really think this is going to change lives. We got no negative feedback from the event, which was huge. This was a pilot event, and we stepped into uncharted territory for a law enforcement agency that we had never done before. We got no negative comments, and the only thing that I have gotten is I have gotten comments from other organizations and some individuals saying that they realy want to be a part of it he next time we do it. I have already ahd people calling me asking when we are going to start again.
 Hugh: The event happens once a year?
 Kim: Yes.
 Hugh: What time of year?
 Kim: After school. We did it in July this year. I think we are looking at the end of June this time.
 Hugh: What happens between events? I am sure there is some ramp-up time to the event. But does anything happen now for instance?
 Kim: WE are going to start meeting and planning the next event. We will be looking for donations. Everything was donated for the event pretty much. We had food donated, like a hot dog vendor, ice cream, drinks. We will start making the rounds and getting all those things lined up. We really won’t change a lot. Other than changing maybe the layout of where people were, we had this at Christiansberg High School. Very few changes will be made. Between now and June, we will start getting our flyer ready, start making our contacts, start getting the word out. After June in the fall, we will look at doing the GTO program again.
 Hugh: I love it. It’s a great story. I want to do a post-script for this and talk about leadership in general. Let’s move in another direction. We are broadcasting this on YouTube, so it will be inspiring some other departments to want to call you. You will be teaching this to some others.
 You are also active in the community. You spoke to me about a leadership cohort that you get together with. Could you speak to me a little bit about that?
 Kim: WE do. It’s called Project 14. It started at the beginning of last year with myself and Lieutenant Louie Hesslup. We started a leadership workshop where we met once a month and ahd a two-hour workshop. We invited indiviudals from the community, clergy, and other agiences of course to come. We would put together a two-hour workshop. Louie passed away in May, and now his wife is on board. We have changed the name to Project 14 because Louie’s number is Unit 14. Once a month, typically the last Thursday of the month, for two hours, we have a leadership project. We have a leadership workshop. We invite speakers in, and it could be anyone from one of the departments. There is a group of us: Lieutenant Andy Wilgram from Bradford PD, Officer Heath Hyatt from Christiansberg PD, and Bryan Roe from Blacksford PD&gt; we have some of the chiefs. Chief Wilson and Captain Ramsey from Christiansberg PD. Other people have come on board. We get together once a month, decide what our topic is going t obe. One of us will do the project, or we will bring in an outside speaker. We just do a leadership project once a month. That has been great collaboration with different departments and us working together in a different way.
 Hugh: What have you learned there that helps you in your job and helps you in your volunteer work with this project you talkd about?
 Kim: One of the great things about the leadership project is the different topics that have come in. we have covered everything from the Bernard Bershard and just preparing for some of the events has been pretty challenging, just getting all the departments nad law enforcement to want to attend something like that. the collaboration has been pretty impressive with the different departments walking together. Nobody is really in charge. It’s here at the sheriff’s office. It’s kind of sponsored by the sheriff’s office, but it’ really a collaborative effort. It’s that teamwork thing. It’s getting people around you who know how to get things done or have expertise where you don’t and then working together and putting on a good project.
 Hugh: Kim Haug, Captain, thank you for your service to the community and the impact that you make.
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      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:00:54 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/867ac132-b329-11eb-9f0f-5b394a77573b/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh Ballou interviews Cpt. Kim Haug</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>A story of how a local Captain at the Montgomery County Sheriff's jail made a difference in the lives of those less advantaged and motivated other agencies and charities to participate.
 Here's the transcript.
 Interview with Captain Kim Haug
 Hugh: This is Hugh Ballou, and my guest for this session is Captain Kim Haug. I am at the Montgomery County Sheriff’s department. I met Kim the other day, and I was quite impressed with the work she has done outside of her regular job, demonstrating how leaders can make a difference. Let’s start with talking about what your job title is here.
 Kim: I am captain, but my job title is the Chief Correctional Officer of the Montgomery County Jail.
 Hugh: That’s your work-work. But we are going to talk about what you have done outside your work. Do you have a title or description for that program we are going to talk about?
 Kim: The program that we have started is called Effort. It stands for Enabling Friends for Our Response Teams.
 Hugh: Enabling Friends for Our Response Teams. Clever. What was the situation that came up that was the inspiration to start this?
 Kim: We have a lady who works for the sheriff’s office. She has a son who is autistic. She requested that we do something for the special needs community. She didn’t give us a whole lot other than that. she just wanted us to do something with the special needs community, so that started some thoughts going and some programs. We started thinking of some things. We got together with a lot of people in the community and came up with the EFFORT program.
 Hugh: Whoa. So she came and talked to you about it. What was the problem you were addressing?
 Kim: She had had a couple bad experiences with her son. He is a teenager, and they live in a town. There had been a couple incidents with law enforcement. They were pretty scary for her. At one point, her son was not responding to a command, not because he didn’t understand it, but because he was afraid. He had something in his hand that was like a comfort item, and the command was to put it down. He refused to do it. The situation started to escalate pretty quickly. She was concerned that maybe in the future, ash e got older, that situation could have gone really bad. She just wanted us to do something for the special needs community, including individuals with intellectual disabilities because she saw the need.
 Hugh: We read about things when they go bad with law enforcement. We want to balance it out with things that we do to prevent those situations. This is really important. what was next? How did you start this initiative?
 Kim: First, I approached the sheriff with the idea of having a fun day at the sheriff’s department. I the nquickly realized that I was out of my element with the special needs community, that I needed some help and some guidance, as I didn’t want to do anything wrong. I knew that I would have one chance at this. You mess this up, and that could be really bad. I invited a lo of people from the special needs community, from schools, the Special Olympics, DARS and IDA and some other agencies in our area that work with special needs, along with law enforcement and first responders. We had a big brainstorming session. I told them some ideas, what I would like to do. They were really excited about it. We went forward with it, but always with the guidance of the people in the special needs community already to make sure we did everything that was going to be helpful and right, and that we wouldn’t do anything silly that would make the situation worse.
 Hugh: Our audience are people who are leaders in various types of organizations like those that you reached out to. What is DARS and IDA?
 Kim: DARS is the Department of Aging and Rehabilitative Services. What they do is they work with a lot of individuals who have special needs on assisting them and getting them employment. IDA is Individuals with Disabilities Association, and they do a lot of really neat programs for individuals with disabilities. Special Olympics, everyone knows what that is. We invited those people to come and guide us along.
 Hugh: One of the things that we highlight in our work is that leaders are first and foremost people with influence. You did not have any official relationship that you could say, “Do this.” You just influenced them because of your clarity of vision for this. Speak to that. They voluntarily stepped up, is what I am hearing.
 Kim: They did. When we met, I first shared with them what I wanted ot do and the purpose of what I wanted to do. I wanted to bridge that gap. I wanted to reach out to the special needs community because as I started this research, I found out that there wasn’t a lot of trust between the individuals and the families of the individuals with special needs and law enforcement due to those bad experiences. I was just afraid that we wouldn’t know how to handle it. I am not just talking about law enforcement, but fire and rescue as well. Those can be really scary situations for anyone, but you throw in the special needs aspect. Even a parent getting pulled over for a parcking ticket could be traumatic for somebody with autism. When you pull over behind that car with the lights and the siren. Car accidents. A fire in the home. We bring in an element that is unfamiliar and scary. What I wanted to do was on this day, make sure there were fire trucks and abumalcnes and police cars and officers in uniform and everybody was in uniform. The firemen were in uniform, the rescue people were in what they wear, and law enforcement was in uniform. They got to ineract with us on a fun level, and they got to learn about the jobs that we do. They did the obstacle course that the law enforcement officers do when we go to the academy. They got to use the fire hose. It was just incredible what the fire department did. They got to go into the back of an ambulance and see it. They had a photo with the cops, where they got their picture taken and got to take it home with them when they left the site. They got certificates and medals and awards for doing all the obstacle courses.
 What I wanted to do was like I said bridget that gap and show them that we are not scary, that we are not there to make a situation worse, but rather, make it better.
 Hugh: This is an activity, or is it housed under the sheriff’s department or connected to any official entity?
 Kim: It’s a program that the sheriff’s office does. It’s something that we do in partnership with all first responders in the county.
 Hugh: It’s your baby?
 Kim: It’s my baby.
 Hugh: We’re talking in 2017 early in the year. How long has it been going?
 Kim: Last year was our pilot program. We did it in jUly of last year. We start meeting next week to start planning this year’s EFFORT event.
 Hugh: What will you do to create sustainability and enable transitions as you bring on more programs nad need other leaders to take other parts? What will you do to introduce that sustainability with the transitions? People aren’t goin to do it forever, so how do you bring on fresh people and have a rotation system?
 Kim: One of the things that we do throughout the year is we do training for the new officers who come in. one of the things we will definitely do is it’s open to volunteers. Anyone can come and continue to go in the fire departments and rescue departments and provide training. Ongoing training bout the need that we have in our community that we need to be better trained to handle individuals with disabilities. We want those families to trust us on that level. What we will definitely be doing is the continuing training, which will be the key part of keeping this going.
 Hugh: Good. I see you going over and above the training because you have created and built on relationships.
 Kim: The other organizations that we have developed relationships with have been phenomenal. I have actually been relaly surprised at how important those connections with the DARS agency and the IDA and Special Olympics have been. We partner with them in some things, but it has been small. The partnership with them has been huge. We have used them for training purposes, and they have used us for training purposes on their side. But the partnership that the sheriff’s office has wit hthese agencies now is phenomenal. I see that continuing to grow as well. Different programs will change throughout because we already have this established partnership. That will make transitions easier for programs in the future.
 Hugh: Good. One of the strong leadership principles I’m seeing is that you don’t have to be the expert in everything. You are the visionary, and you brought in people with particular expertise to fill in those gaps.
 Kim: Yes. It was the smartest thing that I have learned to do. If you want to do something, you find the people who are really good at it and partner with them.
 Hugh: That’s a key statement right there. Leaders are catalysts for some of the things to happen. What I am hearing is you were very clear on what the need was and what we can do about it. But you let other people play into the content and the methodologies and the process piece wit hexpertise. Part of what I wanted to highlight in this interview is we sometimes get in a vacuum with our churches, our charities, thinking, whether it’s government or other, that we have to do it all. The key message I want to highlight here is this is a collaborative community effort.
 Kim: Correct.
 Hugh: Collaboration really enables us all to do a whole lot more. What are some of the results that you have seen so far?
 Kim: We extended our program to a degree by doing a GTO program, called Growth through Opportunity, which was really positive for the sheriff’s office, and also for three individuals. Through the DARS relationships, we had three cadets come through a program through the sheriff’s office called Grow Through Opportunity. We took in three cadets, all three with intellectual disabilities, and we spent four month with them where they came in and learned job skills and social skills through job coaches. The job coaches were the deputies. They would spend several hours a day with us, Monday through Thursday, and they graduated the program. The whole purpose of that was to get them job-ready. We went to different agencies throughout the county, other police agencies and the fire departments, and they would have work for them to do. Under the supervision of the job coach, they did jobs. These three individuals are actually out there interviewing for jobs now, aso they learned everything from eye contact to shaking hands to how to fill out applications to interacting with strangers and how to talk to business leaders when they go into the county. That was a pretty neat program. That is a huge thing that has come out of the EFFORT program and the training we have done.
 I have also seen the positive impact on the deputies who work here and the experiences they have had with individuals in the community. When they have had to go on calls and they have encountered someone with autism or another disability and their confidence on being able ot handle that better and knowing how, I have been trained on how to interact with somebody who is autistic, and they feel comfortable in doing that.
 Hugh: Something most of us don’t even think about. As you are talking about the skills about eye contact and all of that, we could all use that, but that is giving people a leg up who might not have been taught that.
 Kim: Or it’s more difficult for them due to their disability. It’s harder for them to reach out and hsake someone’s hand. They may know they are supposed to, but it’s the reminder that they should be doing this.
 Hugh:That’s huge. We want to reach out and do something for other people. What you said also is there is a change internally with people who are working with these people. Have you ahd any stories from any of your officers?
 Kim: I do. I had one deputy who called me after an interaction. The call was a teenager who was out of control. You never eally know, when you are going on those calls, what you are going to encounter. Are they just acting up, or are they really out of control? When he got there, he found out the young lady was autistic. He remembered his training, and you feel more confident knowing you know how to handle the situation the way it should be handled. He left the situation, and it was positive for the mother, the daughter, and the deputy. They have an ongoing relationship. We now know that if we are called to this house, that his young lady has autism, and we know some of her triggers, some of the things we can do or say to calm her down, and it is a positive all the way around.
 The flip side of it is we are better trained to handle these situations. The parents see us as somebody who is coming in to help and not make a situation worse.
 Hugh: What is your vision for the future? How do you see this going in the future? Do you see it growing or impacting different segments? Do you see it impacting more people without growing? What do you see?
 Kim: I definitely see it growing and impacting more people. I would love for this to grow into other counties. I would love to see other counties either come here for the training or open up their departments for the training, for the GTO program, or for something similar to EFFORT. I did have a lady from South Carolina call me and ask me how to do it because she wanted to do it there for her department. That was very encouraging, and that is what I would like to see continue. I would like to see all departments realize there is a whole segment of our community that we don’t normally deal with unless it is an accident or something like that. it’s not necessarily the criminal side of it, but there is a whole segment of our community that really desires to have a relationship with us and that we need to have that trust. They need to be able to trust us to handle that situation well.
 Hugh: There is a natural barrier between law enforcement and citizen. When you are on the street and see a police car, you slow down. We are always thinking about ourselves. What am I doing wrong? We are in a different mindset. What I am hearing you saying is you are bridging some of those gaps.
 Kim: Fighting crime is a huge part of what law enforcement does. We do enforce the laws of the land, the speed limits. We do have to interact in that way. That is not all that we do. We are here to serve the community. With Sheriff Pardon’s vision for where he wants to take this department is definitely in that direction: being there for the community. We do have that one part of what we do, but it’s only a part of what we do. It’s not all of what we do. We serve the community, and there was a need in our community to connect with the special needs individuals. We are trying to bridge that gap and fulfill that need.
 Hugh: A person in your organization brought that need to your attention, and you paid attention. Why you? Why did you say, “I want to do this?” What was inside you that was the voice that said, “Kim, do this”?
 Kim: She came to me a few times. She was pretty persistent. Then I started to think about it. We had had a meeting at the beginning of the year with the sheriff, and he laid out his vision for the sheriff’s office. It was definitely community-driven. That was at the forefront of my mind, that we were going in a different direction. But she came to me a few times. I know her son on a personal level. I have met him. I guess it just struck achord that we do need to do this. Why not me?
 Hugh: You don’t know this, but I talk about leadership, and I summarize it in three things. Leaders get things done. Leaders figure out how things get done. That is the illusive part. Leaders influence others. I see all those traits. You didn’t just say, “Oh, there’s an idea.” You took action. So if there are people ou there that are hearing this story, what advice would you give people if they have got an idea? What is the leadership piece that you would enourage people to embrace to move on the idea?
 Kim: It’s really hard to say because I feel like this is part of who I am. If there is a need, look for ways to address it. I have come across some things where I have handed them off. There is a need here. You look for ways that you can address it, and sometimes there are things that I can move forward with. Sometimes I see somebody who is better equipped to move forward with it, and you hadn it off. But you still want to follow through and make sure that need gets met. It doesn’t take much. Get people around you who are experts and say, “Hey, this is a need. This is how I see we can fix it.” Then start getting some advice and some experts around you and a good team. You just get it done.
 Hugh: A good team. Well, this is inspirational. Thank you for spending time to share the story and your humility in getting out of the way and letting it happen. You brought people together around a vision, and you have been a catalyst for things to happen. I am sure you have been a cheerleader when things didn’t quite go together at some point. We are in the sheriff’s department and are watching sirens. That is the validation of where we are.
 Any other things you want to share before we end this story?
 Kim: Thank you so much for the opportunity to share it. If I can promote EFFORT, I am going to promote it any place that I can because I really think this is going to change lives. We got no negative feedback from the event, which was huge. This was a pilot event, and we stepped into uncharted territory for a law enforcement agency that we had never done before. We got no negative comments, and the only thing that I have gotten is I have gotten comments from other organizations and some individuals saying that they realy want to be a part of it he next time we do it. I have already ahd people calling me asking when we are going to start again.
 Hugh: The event happens once a year?
 Kim: Yes.
 Hugh: What time of year?
 Kim: After school. We did it in July this year. I think we are looking at the end of June this time.
 Hugh: What happens between events? I am sure there is some ramp-up time to the event. But does anything happen now for instance?
 Kim: WE are going to start meeting and planning the next event. We will be looking for donations. Everything was donated for the event pretty much. We had food donated, like a hot dog vendor, ice cream, drinks. We will start making the rounds and getting all those things lined up. We really won’t change a lot. Other than changing maybe the layout of where people were, we had this at Christiansberg High School. Very few changes will be made. Between now and June, we will start getting our flyer ready, start making our contacts, start getting the word out. After June in the fall, we will look at doing the GTO program again.
 Hugh: I love it. It’s a great story. I want to do a post-script for this and talk about leadership in general. Let’s move in another direction. We are broadcasting this on YouTube, so it will be inspiring some other departments to want to call you. You will be teaching this to some others.
 You are also active in the community. You spoke to me about a leadership cohort that you get together with. Could you speak to me a little bit about that?
 Kim: WE do. It’s called Project 14. It started at the beginning of last year with myself and Lieutenant Louie Hesslup. We started a leadership workshop where we met once a month and ahd a two-hour workshop. We invited indiviudals from the community, clergy, and other agiences of course to come. We would put together a two-hour workshop. Louie passed away in May, and now his wife is on board. We have changed the name to Project 14 because Louie’s number is Unit 14. Once a month, typically the last Thursday of the month, for two hours, we have a leadership project. We have a leadership workshop. We invite speakers in, and it could be anyone from one of the departments. There is a group of us: Lieutenant Andy Wilgram from Bradford PD, Officer Heath Hyatt from Christiansberg PD, and Bryan Roe from Blacksford PD&gt; we have some of the chiefs. Chief Wilson and Captain Ramsey from Christiansberg PD. Other people have come on board. We get together once a month, decide what our topic is going t obe. One of us will do the project, or we will bring in an outside speaker. We just do a leadership project once a month. That has been great collaboration with different departments and us working together in a different way.
 Hugh: What have you learned there that helps you in your job and helps you in your volunteer work with this project you talkd about?
 Kim: One of the great things about the leadership project is the different topics that have come in. we have covered everything from the Bernard Bershard and just preparing for some of the events has been pretty challenging, just getting all the departments nad law enforcement to want to attend something like that. the collaboration has been pretty impressive with the different departments walking together. Nobody is really in charge. It’s here at the sheriff’s office. It’s kind of sponsored by the sheriff’s office, but it’ really a collaborative effort. It’s that teamwork thing. It’s getting people around you who know how to get things done or have expertise where you don’t and then working together and putting on a good project.
 Hugh: Kim Haug, Captain, thank you for your service to the community and the impact that you make.
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        <![CDATA[<p>A story of how a local Captain at the Montgomery County Sheriff's jail made a difference in the lives of those less advantaged and motivated other agencies and charities to participate.</p> <p>Here's the transcript.</p> <p><strong>Interview with Captain Kim Haug</strong></p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is Hugh Ballou, and my guest for this session is Captain Kim Haug. I am at the Montgomery County Sheriff’s department. I met Kim the other day, and I was quite impressed with the work she has done outside of her regular job, demonstrating how leaders can make a difference. Let’s start with talking about what your job title is here.</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> I am captain, but my job title is the Chief Correctional Officer of the Montgomery County Jail.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s your work-work. But we are going to talk about what you have done outside your work. Do you have a title or description for that program we are going to talk about?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> The program that we have started is called Effort. It stands for Enabling Friends for Our Response Teams.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Enabling Friends for Our Response Teams. Clever. What was the situation that came up that was the inspiration to start this?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> We have a lady who works for the sheriff’s office. She has a son who is autistic. She requested that we do something for the special needs community. She didn’t give us a whole lot other than that. she just wanted us to do something with the special needs community, so that started some thoughts going and some programs. We started thinking of some things. We got together with a lot of people in the community and came up with the EFFORT program.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Whoa. So she came and talked to you about it. What was the problem you were addressing?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> She had had a couple bad experiences with her son. He is a teenager, and they live in a town. There had been a couple incidents with law enforcement. They were pretty scary for her. At one point, her son was not responding to a command, not because he didn’t understand it, but because he was afraid. He had something in his hand that was like a comfort item, and the command was to put it down. He refused to do it. The situation started to escalate pretty quickly. She was concerned that maybe in the future, ash e got older, that situation could have gone really bad. She just wanted us to do something for the special needs community, including individuals with intellectual disabilities because she saw the need.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We read about things when they go bad with law enforcement. We want to balance it out with things that we do to prevent those situations. This is really important. what was next? How did you start this initiative?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> First, I approached the sheriff with the idea of having a fun day at the sheriff’s department. I the nquickly realized that I was out of my element with the special needs community, that I needed some help and some guidance, as I didn’t want to do anything wrong. I knew that I would have one chance at this. You mess this up, and that could be really bad. I invited a lo of people from the special needs community, from schools, the Special Olympics, DARS and IDA and some other agencies in our area that work with special needs, along with law enforcement and first responders. We had a big brainstorming session. I told them some ideas, what I would like to do. They were really excited about it. We went forward with it, but always with the guidance of the people in the special needs community already to make sure we did everything that was going to be helpful and right, and that we wouldn’t do anything silly that would make the situation worse.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Our audience are people who are leaders in various types of organizations like those that you reached out to. What is DARS and IDA?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> DARS is the Department of Aging and Rehabilitative Services. What they do is they work with a lot of individuals who have special needs on assisting them and getting them employment. IDA is Individuals with Disabilities Association, and they do a lot of really neat programs for individuals with disabilities. Special Olympics, everyone knows what that is. We invited those people to come and guide us along.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> One of the things that we highlight in our work is that leaders are first and foremost people with influence. You did not have any official relationship that you could say, “Do this.” You just influenced them because of your clarity of vision for this. Speak to that. They voluntarily stepped up, is what I am hearing.</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> They did. When we met, I first shared with them what I wanted ot do and the purpose of what I wanted to do. I wanted to bridge that gap. I wanted to reach out to the special needs community because as I started this research, I found out that there wasn’t a lot of trust between the individuals and the families of the individuals with special needs and law enforcement due to those bad experiences. I was just afraid that we wouldn’t know how to handle it. I am not just talking about law enforcement, but fire and rescue as well. Those can be really scary situations for anyone, but you throw in the special needs aspect. Even a parent getting pulled over for a parcking ticket could be traumatic for somebody with autism. When you pull over behind that car with the lights and the siren. Car accidents. A fire in the home. We bring in an element that is unfamiliar and scary. What I wanted to do was on this day, make sure there were fire trucks and abumalcnes and police cars and officers in uniform and everybody was in uniform. The firemen were in uniform, the rescue people were in what they wear, and law enforcement was in uniform. They got to ineract with us on a fun level, and they got to learn about the jobs that we do. They did the obstacle course that the law enforcement officers do when we go to the academy. They got to use the fire hose. It was just incredible what the fire department did. They got to go into the back of an ambulance and see it. They had a photo with the cops, where they got their picture taken and got to take it home with them when they left the site. They got certificates and medals and awards for doing all the obstacle courses.</p> <p>What I wanted to do was like I said bridget that gap and show them that we are not scary, that we are not there to make a situation worse, but rather, make it better.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> This is an activity, or is it housed under the sheriff’s department or connected to any official entity?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> It’s a program that the sheriff’s office does. It’s something that we do in partnership with all first responders in the county.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> It’s your baby?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> It’s my baby.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> We’re talking in 2017 early in the year. How long has it been going?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> Last year was our pilot program. We did it in jUly of last year. We start meeting next week to start planning this year’s EFFORT event.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What will you do to create sustainability and enable transitions as you bring on more programs nad need other leaders to take other parts? What will you do to introduce that sustainability with the transitions? People aren’t goin to do it forever, so how do you bring on fresh people and have a rotation system?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> One of the things that we do throughout the year is we do training for the new officers who come in. one of the things we will definitely do is it’s open to volunteers. Anyone can come and continue to go in the fire departments and rescue departments and provide training. Ongoing training bout the need that we have in our community that we need to be better trained to handle individuals with disabilities. We want those families to trust us on that level. What we will definitely be doing is the continuing training, which will be the key part of keeping this going.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Good. I see you going over and above the training because you have created and built on relationships.</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> The other organizations that we have developed relationships with have been phenomenal. I have actually been relaly surprised at how important those connections with the DARS agency and the IDA and Special Olympics have been. We partner with them in some things, but it has been small. The partnership with them has been huge. We have used them for training purposes, and they have used us for training purposes on their side. But the partnership that the sheriff’s office has wit hthese agencies now is phenomenal. I see that continuing to grow as well. Different programs will change throughout because we already have this established partnership. That will make transitions easier for programs in the future.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Good. One of the strong leadership principles I’m seeing is that you don’t have to be the expert in everything. You are the visionary, and you brought in people with particular expertise to fill in those gaps.</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> Yes. It was the smartest thing that I have learned to do. If you want to do something, you find the people who are really good at it and partner with them.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> That’s a key statement right there. Leaders are catalysts for some of the things to happen. What I am hearing is you were very clear on what the need was and what we can do about it. But you let other people play into the content and the methodologies and the process piece wit hexpertise. Part of what I wanted to highlight in this interview is we sometimes get in a vacuum with our churches, our charities, thinking, whether it’s government or other, that we have to do it all. The key message I want to highlight here is this is a collaborative community effort.</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> Correct.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Collaboration really enables us all to do a whole lot more. What are some of the results that you have seen so far?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> We extended our program to a degree by doing a GTO program, called Growth through Opportunity, which was really positive for the sheriff’s office, and also for three individuals. Through the DARS relationships, we had three cadets come through a program through the sheriff’s office called Grow Through Opportunity. We took in three cadets, all three with intellectual disabilities, and we spent four month with them where they came in and learned job skills and social skills through job coaches. The job coaches were the deputies. They would spend several hours a day with us, Monday through Thursday, and they graduated the program. The whole purpose of that was to get them job-ready. We went to different agencies throughout the county, other police agencies and the fire departments, and they would have work for them to do. Under the supervision of the job coach, they did jobs. These three individuals are actually out there interviewing for jobs now, aso they learned everything from eye contact to shaking hands to how to fill out applications to interacting with strangers and how to talk to business leaders when they go into the county. That was a pretty neat program. That is a huge thing that has come out of the EFFORT program and the training we have done.</p> <p>I have also seen the positive impact on the deputies who work here and the experiences they have had with individuals in the community. When they have had to go on calls and they have encountered someone with autism or another disability and their confidence on being able ot handle that better and knowing how, I have been trained on how to interact with somebody who is autistic, and they feel comfortable in doing that.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Something most of us don’t even think about. As you are talking about the skills about eye contact and all of that, we could all use that, but that is giving people a leg up who might not have been taught that.</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> Or it’s more difficult for them due to their disability. It’s harder for them to reach out and hsake someone’s hand. They may know they are supposed to, but it’s the reminder that they should be doing this.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong>That’s huge. We want to reach out and do something for other people. What you said also is there is a change internally with people who are working with these people. Have you ahd any stories from any of your officers?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> I do. I had one deputy who called me after an interaction. The call was a teenager who was out of control. You never eally know, when you are going on those calls, what you are going to encounter. Are they just acting up, or are they really out of control? When he got there, he found out the young lady was autistic. He remembered his training, and you feel more confident knowing you know how to handle the situation the way it should be handled. He left the situation, and it was positive for the mother, the daughter, and the deputy. They have an ongoing relationship. We now know that if we are called to this house, that his young lady has autism, and we know some of her triggers, some of the things we can do or say to calm her down, and it is a positive all the way around.</p> <p>The flip side of it is we are better trained to handle these situations. The parents see us as somebody who is coming in to help and not make a situation worse.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What is your vision for the future? How do you see this going in the future? Do you see it growing or impacting different segments? Do you see it impacting more people without growing? What do you see?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> I definitely see it growing and impacting more people. I would love for this to grow into other counties. I would love to see other counties either come here for the training or open up their departments for the training, for the GTO program, or for something similar to EFFORT. I did have a lady from South Carolina call me and ask me how to do it because she wanted to do it there for her department. That was very encouraging, and that is what I would like to see continue. I would like to see all departments realize there is a whole segment of our community that we don’t normally deal with unless it is an accident or something like that. it’s not necessarily the criminal side of it, but there is a whole segment of our community that really desires to have a relationship with us and that we need to have that trust. They need to be able to trust us to handle that situation well.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> There is a natural barrier between law enforcement and citizen. When you are on the street and see a police car, you slow down. We are always thinking about ourselves. What am I doing wrong? We are in a different mindset. What I am hearing you saying is you are bridging some of those gaps.</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> Fighting crime is a huge part of what law enforcement does. We do enforce the laws of the land, the speed limits. We do have to interact in that way. That is not all that we do. We are here to serve the community. With Sheriff Pardon’s vision for where he wants to take this department is definitely in that direction: being there for the community. We do have that one part of what we do, but it’s only a part of what we do. It’s not all of what we do. We serve the community, and there was a need in our community to connect with the special needs individuals. We are trying to bridge that gap and fulfill that need.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A person in your organization brought that need to your attention, and you paid attention. Why you? Why did you say, “I want to do this?” What was inside you that was the voice that said, “Kim, do this”?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> She came to me a few times. She was pretty persistent. Then I started to think about it. We had had a meeting at the beginning of the year with the sheriff, and he laid out his vision for the sheriff’s office. It was definitely community-driven. That was at the forefront of my mind, that we were going in a different direction. But she came to me a few times. I know her son on a personal level. I have met him. I guess it just struck achord that we do need to do this. Why not me?</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> You don’t know this, but I talk about leadership, and I summarize it in three things. Leaders get things done. Leaders figure out how things get done. That is the illusive part. Leaders influence others. I see all those traits. You didn’t just say, “Oh, there’s an idea.” You took action. So if there are people ou there that are hearing this story, what advice would you give people if they have got an idea? What is the leadership piece that you would enourage people to embrace to move on the idea?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> It’s really hard to say because I feel like this is part of who I am. If there is a need, look for ways to address it. I have come across some things where I have handed them off. There is a need here. You look for ways that you can address it, and sometimes there are things that I can move forward with. Sometimes I see somebody who is better equipped to move forward with it, and you hadn it off. But you still want to follow through and make sure that need gets met. It doesn’t take much. Get people around you who are experts and say, “Hey, this is a need. This is how I see we can fix it.” Then start getting some advice and some experts around you and a good team. You just get it done.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> A good team. Well, this is inspirational. Thank you for spending time to share the story and your humility in getting out of the way and letting it happen. You brought people together around a vision, and you have been a catalyst for things to happen. I am sure you have been a cheerleader when things didn’t quite go together at some point. We are in the sheriff’s department and are watching sirens. That is the validation of where we are.</p> <p>Any other things you want to share before we end this story?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> Thank you so much for the opportunity to share it. If I can promote EFFORT, I am going to promote it any place that I can because I really think this is going to change lives. We got no negative feedback from the event, which was huge. This was a pilot event, and we stepped into uncharted territory for a law enforcement agency that we had never done before. We got no negative comments, and the only thing that I have gotten is I have gotten comments from other organizations and some individuals saying that they realy want to be a part of it he next time we do it. I have already ahd people calling me asking when we are going to start again.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> The event happens once a year?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What time of year?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> After school. We did it in July this year. I think we are looking at the end of June this time.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What happens between events? I am sure there is some ramp-up time to the event. But does anything happen now for instance?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> WE are going to start meeting and planning the next event. We will be looking for donations. Everything was donated for the event pretty much. We had food donated, like a hot dog vendor, ice cream, drinks. We will start making the rounds and getting all those things lined up. We really won’t change a lot. Other than changing maybe the layout of where people were, we had this at Christiansberg High School. Very few changes will be made. Between now and June, we will start getting our flyer ready, start making our contacts, start getting the word out. After June in the fall, we will look at doing the GTO program again.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> I love it. It’s a great story. I want to do a post-script for this and talk about leadership in general. Let’s move in another direction. We are broadcasting this on YouTube, so it will be inspiring some other departments to want to call you. You will be teaching this to some others.</p> <p>You are also active in the community. You spoke to me about a leadership cohort that you get together with. Could you speak to me a little bit about that?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> WE do. It’s called Project 14. It started at the beginning of last year with myself and Lieutenant Louie Hesslup. We started a leadership workshop where we met once a month and ahd a two-hour workshop. We invited indiviudals from the community, clergy, and other agiences of course to come. We would put together a two-hour workshop. Louie passed away in May, and now his wife is on board. We have changed the name to Project 14 because Louie’s number is Unit 14. Once a month, typically the last Thursday of the month, for two hours, we have a leadership project. We have a leadership workshop. We invite speakers in, and it could be anyone from one of the departments. There is a group of us: Lieutenant Andy Wilgram from Bradford PD, Officer Heath Hyatt from Christiansberg PD, and Bryan Roe from Blacksford PD&gt; we have some of the chiefs. Chief Wilson and Captain Ramsey from Christiansberg PD. Other people have come on board. We get together once a month, decide what our topic is going t obe. One of us will do the project, or we will bring in an outside speaker. We just do a leadership project once a month. That has been great collaboration with different departments and us working together in a different way.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> What have you learned there that helps you in your job and helps you in your volunteer work with this project you talkd about?</p> <p><strong>Kim:</strong> One of the great things about the leadership project is the different topics that have come in. we have covered everything from the Bernard Bershard and just preparing for some of the events has been pretty challenging, just getting all the departments nad law enforcement to want to attend something like that. the collaboration has been pretty impressive with the different departments walking together. Nobody is really in charge. It’s here at the sheriff’s office. It’s kind of sponsored by the sheriff’s office, but it’ really a collaborative effort. It’s that teamwork thing. It’s getting people around you who know how to get things done or have expertise where you don’t and then working together and putting on a good project.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:</strong> Kim Haug, Captain, thank you for your service to the community and the impact that you make.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1590</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[e9b5fd5ed401fb4d3191bbe2f277e6c0]]></guid>
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      <title>The Top 7 Questions Nonprofit Leaders Ask</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-top-7-questions-nonprofit-leaders-ask</link>
      <description>Most asked questions from nonprofit leaders.
  
 Q1 If have a great vision for my charity, why don’t people donate?
 Q 2 How do I get my board of directors more actively engaged in fund raising?
 Q3 Why don’t more people volunteer for projects they seem to be interested in?
 Q4 I run a nonprofit, doesn’t that mean we can’t make profit?
 Q5 How can we keep a steady source of revenue coming in?
 Q6 What are the best sources of funding for operations?
 Q7 Why are donors so interested in overhead and how to I respond to them to let them know why we need to pay salaries and do effective marketing?
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:17:44 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/86952752-b329-11eb-9f0f-e382f3b32739/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share answers</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Most asked questions from nonprofit leaders.
  
 Q1 If have a great vision for my charity, why don’t people donate?
 Q 2 How do I get my board of directors more actively engaged in fund raising?
 Q3 Why don’t more people volunteer for projects they seem to be interested in?
 Q4 I run a nonprofit, doesn’t that mean we can’t make profit?
 Q5 How can we keep a steady source of revenue coming in?
 Q6 What are the best sources of funding for operations?
 Q7 Why are donors so interested in overhead and how to I respond to them to let them know why we need to pay salaries and do effective marketing?
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Most asked questions from nonprofit leaders.</p> <p> </p> <p>Q1 If have a great vision for my charity, why don’t people donate?</p> <p>Q 2 How do I get my board of directors more actively engaged in fund raising?</p> <p>Q3 Why don’t more people volunteer for projects they seem to be interested in?</p> <p>Q4 I run a nonprofit, doesn’t that mean we can’t make profit?</p> <p>Q5 How can we keep a steady source of revenue coming in?</p> <p>Q6 What are the best sources of funding for operations?</p> <p>Q7 Why are donors so interested in overhead and how to I respond to them to let them know why we need to pay salaries and do effective marketing?</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2978</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[7a8a79c82f974826dd054f163e3aad68]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9195208872.mp3?updated=1621009859" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>The 7 Steps to Creating a Relevant Web Site</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-7-steps-to-creating-a-relevant-web-site</link>
      <description>The 7 Steps to Creating a Relevant Website
 Step 1 - Ask Questions, then shut up and Listen
 Step 2 - Create tangible goals that are measurable.
 Step 3 - Determine the most important pages then direct traffic to them.
 Step 4 - Use effective copy and content
 Step 5 - Ensure measurable results (conversion through engagement))
 Step 6 - Design for visual appeal, ease of use, and functionality
 Step 7 - Start the marketing cycle to drive traffic to your site
 For more information http://rockpapersimple.com/hugh
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2017 04:36:20 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/86a8891e-b329-11eb-9f0f-f7c64352b145/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Joshua Adams from Rock Paper Shares His Secrets to Engagement </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The 7 Steps to Creating a Relevant Website
 Step 1 - Ask Questions, then shut up and Listen
 Step 2 - Create tangible goals that are measurable.
 Step 3 - Determine the most important pages then direct traffic to them.
 Step 4 - Use effective copy and content
 Step 5 - Ensure measurable results (conversion through engagement))
 Step 6 - Design for visual appeal, ease of use, and functionality
 Step 7 - Start the marketing cycle to drive traffic to your site
 For more information http://rockpapersimple.com/hugh
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>The 7 Steps to Creating a Relevant Website</p> <p>Step 1 - Ask Questions, then shut up and Listen</p> <p>Step 2 - Create tangible goals that are measurable.</p> <p>Step 3 - Determine the most important pages then direct traffic to them.</p> <p>Step 4 - Use effective copy and content</p> <p>Step 5 - Ensure measurable results (conversion through engagement))</p> <p>Step 6 - Design for visual appeal, ease of use, and functionality</p> <p>Step 7 - Start the marketing cycle to drive traffic to your site</p> <p>For more information http://rockpapersimple.com/hugh</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3675</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d766839939e2013d03830983be67237e]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN9162163600.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title> Leadership Skills, "Balance or Not!" with Leigh Anne Taylor</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/-leadership-skills-balance-or-not-with-leigh-anne-taylor</link>
      <description>The Podcast Notes:      Balance…or Not!
 I’m writing a new book. I’m thinking of calling it Adrenaline as a Way of Life. Or maybe I’ll try Time: There Will Never be Enough of It, So Squander What You’ve Got. Here’s a sneak peak at my chapter outline.
 Chapter One: E-mergency
 Answer all emails at once. Do not delay. Stop whatever you are doing and answer that baby.
 Chapter Two: Adrenaline is My Motivator
 Save tasks that are “due today” until the last hour, better yet, the last half hour of your workday so you will have the added energy boost of adrenaline to help you complete your tasks.
 Chapter Three: Be a Hog
 Hog the copier. Put off using office machines until the last possible minute, never mind if your colleagues need them.
 Chapter Four: Under-prepare for Meetings/Rehearsals
 That way you’ll find out what you’re really made of. Can you fly by the seat of your pants? Are you great at improvisation? Can you fake it in front of a group?
 Chapter Five: Don’t Bother Planning Ahead, Wait Until the Last Minute
 Careful planning is over rated! Panic provides lots of energy for a task. It’s contagious too, so if you can get other people panicked about a mutual project, just think of all the energy!
 Chapter Six: Don’t organize your stuff.
 That last minute search for materials provides a great panic push just when you need an extra shot of adrenaline.
 Chapter Seven: Run
 Don’t walk, run. Run to the workroom, to the bathroom, to your car. Run yellow lights. Heck, run red ones. That gets everyone excited!
 Chapter Eight: Do One More Thing
 Do one more thing before you leave. That will insure being late.
 Chapter Nine: Shallow Breathing
 Be sure to keep your breath short and rapid. Mimic panic in your breathing at all times. Remember, you don’t have time to take a deep breath.
 Chapter Ten: Run Late
 Show up at the last minute, or better yet, arrive late. Increase every one’s anxiety level!
 Chapter Eleven: Yell
 Yell at everyone when you are running late. If there is no one there, yell at the empty house. Yell at other cars, yell under your breath or right out loud at anyone or anything that gets in your way.
 Chapter Twelve: Fast
 Eat in the car. Even better, don’t eat at all. Being hungry increases your discomfort level and decreases your functioning level which will force your adrenaline to kick in and do it’s magic. When you do eat, gorge on foods that are bad for you.
 Chapter Thirteen: Blame
 Blame other people, blame your life situation, blame the traffic, blame the stoplights, blame your mother. Blame anything or anyone you can think of for anything and everything.
 Chapter Fourteen: Calendar, Schmalandar
 Don’t bother double-checking your calendar for appointments. Better yet, don’t write them down in the first place. If they really need you, they’ll call you.
 I wrote this as a joke in a particularly busy season in my life and shared it at a staff meeting as a way of apologizing to my colleagues for my hyper-anxious state of being at work. I wish I could say those things are exaggerations, but they are based on the truth of how out of balance my life was at that time.
 This winter, as I enter a very busy season once again, I’m attempting to do things differently. Like taking time daily for prayer, exercise, good nutrition, and Sabbath rest. As an experiment, I’m going to take one workday a month out of the office to be still and pray. It’s already making me nervous but I’m determined to do it to break the habits I wrote about in my “book”.
 As I attempt to regain balance in my work schedule, I hope you’ll be encouraged to do the same. May God bless us on our journey
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2017 11:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/86c6c37a-b329-11eb-9f0f-e33d3f0801c8/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>A Funny Overview of Managing Self</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>The Podcast Notes:      Balance…or Not!
 I’m writing a new book. I’m thinking of calling it Adrenaline as a Way of Life. Or maybe I’ll try Time: There Will Never be Enough of It, So Squander What You’ve Got. Here’s a sneak peak at my chapter outline.
 Chapter One: E-mergency
 Answer all emails at once. Do not delay. Stop whatever you are doing and answer that baby.
 Chapter Two: Adrenaline is My Motivator
 Save tasks that are “due today” until the last hour, better yet, the last half hour of your workday so you will have the added energy boost of adrenaline to help you complete your tasks.
 Chapter Three: Be a Hog
 Hog the copier. Put off using office machines until the last possible minute, never mind if your colleagues need them.
 Chapter Four: Under-prepare for Meetings/Rehearsals
 That way you’ll find out what you’re really made of. Can you fly by the seat of your pants? Are you great at improvisation? Can you fake it in front of a group?
 Chapter Five: Don’t Bother Planning Ahead, Wait Until the Last Minute
 Careful planning is over rated! Panic provides lots of energy for a task. It’s contagious too, so if you can get other people panicked about a mutual project, just think of all the energy!
 Chapter Six: Don’t organize your stuff.
 That last minute search for materials provides a great panic push just when you need an extra shot of adrenaline.
 Chapter Seven: Run
 Don’t walk, run. Run to the workroom, to the bathroom, to your car. Run yellow lights. Heck, run red ones. That gets everyone excited!
 Chapter Eight: Do One More Thing
 Do one more thing before you leave. That will insure being late.
 Chapter Nine: Shallow Breathing
 Be sure to keep your breath short and rapid. Mimic panic in your breathing at all times. Remember, you don’t have time to take a deep breath.
 Chapter Ten: Run Late
 Show up at the last minute, or better yet, arrive late. Increase every one’s anxiety level!
 Chapter Eleven: Yell
 Yell at everyone when you are running late. If there is no one there, yell at the empty house. Yell at other cars, yell under your breath or right out loud at anyone or anything that gets in your way.
 Chapter Twelve: Fast
 Eat in the car. Even better, don’t eat at all. Being hungry increases your discomfort level and decreases your functioning level which will force your adrenaline to kick in and do it’s magic. When you do eat, gorge on foods that are bad for you.
 Chapter Thirteen: Blame
 Blame other people, blame your life situation, blame the traffic, blame the stoplights, blame your mother. Blame anything or anyone you can think of for anything and everything.
 Chapter Fourteen: Calendar, Schmalandar
 Don’t bother double-checking your calendar for appointments. Better yet, don’t write them down in the first place. If they really need you, they’ll call you.
 I wrote this as a joke in a particularly busy season in my life and shared it at a staff meeting as a way of apologizing to my colleagues for my hyper-anxious state of being at work. I wish I could say those things are exaggerations, but they are based on the truth of how out of balance my life was at that time.
 This winter, as I enter a very busy season once again, I’m attempting to do things differently. Like taking time daily for prayer, exercise, good nutrition, and Sabbath rest. As an experiment, I’m going to take one workday a month out of the office to be still and pray. It’s already making me nervous but I’m determined to do it to break the habits I wrote about in my “book”.
 As I attempt to regain balance in my work schedule, I hope you’ll be encouraged to do the same. May God bless us on our journey
  
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[ <strong>The Podcast Notes:</strong>      <p><strong>Balance…or Not!</strong></p> <p>I’m writing a new book. I’m thinking of calling it Adrenaline as a Way of Life. Or maybe I’ll try Time: There Will Never be Enough of It, So Squander What You’ve Got. Here’s a sneak peak at my chapter outline.</p> <p><strong>Chapter One: E-mergency</strong></p> <p>Answer all emails at once. Do not delay. Stop whatever you are doing and answer that baby.</p> <p><strong>Chapter Two: Adrenaline is My Motivator</strong></p> <p>Save tasks that are “due today” until the last hour, better yet, the last half hour of your workday so you will have the added energy boost of adrenaline to help you complete your tasks.</p> <p><strong>Chapter Three: Be a Hog</strong></p> <p>Hog the copier. Put off using office machines until the last possible minute, never mind if your colleagues need them.</p> <p><strong>Chapter Four: Under-prepare for Meetings/Rehearsals</strong></p> <p>That way you’ll find out what you’re really made of. Can you fly by the seat of your pants? Are you great at improvisation? Can you fake it in front of a group?</p> <p><strong>Chapter Five: Don’t Bother Planning Ahead, Wait Until the Last Minute</strong></p> <p>Careful planning is over rated! Panic provides lots of energy for a task. It’s contagious too, so if you can get other people panicked about a mutual project, just think of all the energy!</p> <p><strong>Chapter Six: Don’t organize your stuff.</strong></p> <p>That last minute search for materials provides a great panic push just when you need an extra shot of adrenaline.</p> <p><strong>Chapter Seven: Run</strong></p> <p>Don’t walk, run. Run to the workroom, to the bathroom, to your car. Run yellow lights. Heck, run red ones. That gets everyone excited!</p> <p><strong>Chapter Eight: Do One More Thing</strong></p> <p>Do one more thing before you leave. That will insure being late.</p> <p><strong>Chapter Nine: Shallow Breathing</strong></p> <p>Be sure to keep your breath short and rapid. Mimic panic in your breathing at all times. Remember, you don’t have time to take a deep breath.</p> <p><strong>Chapter Ten: Run Late</strong></p> <p>Show up at the last minute, or better yet, arrive late. Increase every one’s anxiety level!</p> <p><strong>Chapter Eleven: Yell</strong></p> <p>Yell at everyone when you are running late. If there is no one there, yell at the empty house. Yell at other cars, yell under your breath or right out loud at anyone or anything that gets in your way.</p> <p><strong>Chapter Twelve: Fast</strong></p> <p>Eat in the car. Even better, don’t eat at all. Being hungry increases your discomfort level and decreases your functioning level which will force your adrenaline to kick in and do it’s magic. When you do eat, gorge on foods that are bad for you.</p> <p><strong>Chapter Thirteen: Blame</strong></p> <p>Blame other people, blame your life situation, blame the traffic, blame the stoplights, blame your mother. Blame anything or anyone you can think of for anything and everything.</p> <p><strong>Chapter Fourteen: Calendar, Schmalandar</strong></p> <p>Don’t bother double-checking your calendar for appointments. Better yet, don’t write them down in the first place. If they really need you, they’ll call you.</p> <p>I wrote this as a joke in a particularly busy season in my life and shared it at a staff meeting as a way of apologizing to my colleagues for my hyper-anxious state of being at work. I wish I could say those things are exaggerations, but they are based on the truth of how out of balance my life was at that time.</p> <p>This winter, as I enter a very busy season once again, I’m attempting to do things differently. Like taking time daily for prayer, exercise, good nutrition, and Sabbath rest. As an experiment, I’m going to take one workday a month out of the office to be still and pray. It’s already making me nervous but I’m determined to do it to break the habits I wrote about in my “book”.</p> <p>As I attempt to regain balance in my work schedule, I hope you’ll be encouraged to do the same. May God bless us on our journey</p>  <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>493</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The "Shadow" That Limits a Leader's Effectiveness</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-shadow-that-limits-a-leaders-effectiveness</link>
      <description>Dr. David Gruder, Ph. D. is an organizational and developmental psychologist. Hugh and David discuss how the Jung definition of shadow limits our effectiveness as nonprofit leaders.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 27 Feb 2017 16:14:19 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/86df89d2-b329-11eb-9f0f-eb0cc1b8ec67/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh Ballou Interviews Dr. David Gruder</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Dr. David Gruder, Ph. D. is an organizational and developmental psychologist. Hugh and David discuss how the Jung definition of shadow limits our effectiveness as nonprofit leaders.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<p>Dr. David Gruder, Ph. D. is an organizational and developmental psychologist. Hugh and David discuss how the Jung definition of shadow limits our effectiveness as nonprofit leaders.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2362</itunes:duration>
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      <title>7 Crucial Steps to Take When Starting a Nonprofit with Russ Dennis</title>
      <link>https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/nonprofitexchange/nonprofitchat02142017.mp3</link>
      <description>Hugh Ballou interviews Russell Dennis on 
 7 Crucial Steps to Take When Starting a Nonprofit in the #nonprofitchat series of engaging nonprofit leaders in conversations on relevant issues facing nonprofit leaders today. For more information http://nonprofitchat.com
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      <pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:22:25 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/86f55e1a-b329-11eb-9f0f-6fb5b6e31f1f/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh Ballou interviews Russell Dennis on  7 Crucial Steps to Take When Starting a Nonprofit in the #nonprofitchat series of engaging nonprofit leaders in conversations on relevant issues facing nonprofit leaders today. For more information</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Hugh Ballou interviews Russell Dennis on 
 7 Crucial Steps to Take When Starting a Nonprofit in the #nonprofitchat series of engaging nonprofit leaders in conversations on relevant issues facing nonprofit leaders today. For more information http://nonprofitchat.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p>Hugh Ballou interviews Russell Dennis on </p> <p>7 Crucial Steps to Take When Starting a Nonprofit in the #nonprofitchat series of engaging nonprofit leaders in conversations on relevant issues facing nonprofit leaders today. For more information <a href="http://nonprofitchat.com">http://nonprofitchat.com</a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2311</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <title>Cheryl Snapp Connor discusses effective publicity</title>
      <link>https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/nonprofitexchange/CherylConnor.mp3</link>
      <description>Hugh: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. My guest today has been a really wonderful friend. She knows how to write the right message. The first time I met Cheryl Snapp Conner, she interviewed me. The next thing I knew, there was this article about me online on Forbes. She understood what I do. When people asked me what I did, I just sent them to that article because in one hour, she got it. We have an important topic to talk about today. Instead of wasting time telling you today about Cheryl, she is sitting in her office today in Salt Lake City, SnappConner PR. Cheryl, welcome.
 Cheryl: Thank you. Happy to be here, Hugh.
 Hugh: I have all kinds of people on this interview series, and I am going to ask you the same question I asked them. What makes you qualified to talk about this topic? Tell me what the topic is. How are we going to tell people what this subject is?
 Cheryl: We are going to talk about communications, which is essentially everything. I am an expert in communications. It’s how I make my career. What a fortunate thing. It was only my minor in college. Most people are not aware of that. I had a different major topic. It was the minor that saved my career bacon. I thank my entire career and every gray hair I have earned in the field of communications. It matters. It is what has been essential to my career, how I have supported my family, and how we have developed our business. It is the core of every business.
 I have been an advocate and proponent of what we call thought leadership communication. From the very core, it was not always known or understood. Even in the earliest days of technology, where I got my career start, it was vital. If you think about those early technology products, they did not have an audience. There were IT people who attempted to communicate to each other, but that was only so useful. In fact, the very reason I was hired by my first technology job—actually second, I was an editor for IBM—but Novell, the leader that premiered local area networking, had a concept in place called networking of PCs. People who needed it or could benefit from it didn’t know what it was. I was specifically chosen as someone who could communicate well and didn’t understand a thing about technology so I wouldn’t have lost my ability to talk about these topics in a way that the general public could grasp and understand. Press releases, not that helpful. Feeds and feeds of something people don’t care about or know about anyway is not going to help. We began by telling the stories of real businesses: law offices, medical practices, education organizations. What do you do? What was the problem? What were your choices? The kind of things you tell your best friend. As you make this decision, who did you have to convince? How much did it cost? If you did this over again, what would you do better next time? Those are meaningful discussions, and that helped. The same is true for every company since. Every entrepreneur has a topic. They have things they are experts in that others could be very pleased to know about.
 Hugh: I invite people to go to Forbes and search Cheryl Snapp Conner. You have a whole series in this entrepreneur channel. Those articles are just so helpful. You really helped me understand what communication is all about, especially with words. You talk about being outside of the technology so you could talk about it differently. Our audience is social entrepreneurs. They are running a business, and we are so intimate with everything that we don’t know how to tell people about it. It seems silly, but we don’t. It’s the same thing with churches and synagogues and local charities. We do great stuff, but the world doesn’t know about it. You are sitting in SnappConner PR. Is it snappconner.com?
 Cheryl: Yes, snappconner.com. But if you just Google my name, you will find it quite easily.
 Hugh: You have a team of highly skilled entrepreneurs. You are strategically placed in a very nice facility, a very good, warm, friendly workplace. I was quite impressed with you and your staff when I visited last week.
 There is also a gap between the professional agency that does it for you and how to raise the bar on creating our own. That is a passion for you: helping all those people who are out there and don’t need a full-time agency as they aren’t ready for one. Content University.
 Cheryl: The legions of entrepreneurs, particularly social entrepreneurs, shouldn’t hire an agency, as they can’t afford it yet. But they do need a bit of savvy. If they do what they can that is free or very low-cost, that is what they should do for as long as they possibly can. Get the help where it is truly needed. Don’t over-spend. That applies to every entrepreneur. Too many will either ignore communications and PR entirely because they feel like they will do that when they become profitable, and then they never do. Or they make mistakes that are just costly or hard to recover from. Or they go whole hog and spend way too much money on the wrong things. That is a waste in another way. In part, it is a waste of the impact you could have had if you used the investment more frugally and with more savvy in the first place.
 Hugh: Well put. These leaders run a charity like a community foundation or a purpose-based charity; they run a church or a synagogue; or they have a small business. We are thinking outside the box. We are doing something innovative. People need to know either to buy from us or to be volunteers or donors for our organization. What is the single most important thing to learn about developing and publishing content to make sure that their vision is really clear?
 Cheryl: I am so glad you asked. There is one thing, but that one thing has two components. One is to really pan down your message and understand it yourself, to verbalize it in the best way possible before you begin. If you think about it, your messaging—and I have a template that I provide free of charge for anyone who’d like it—if you have the best words possible to express what you do and the value proposition for those who should participate, that is a big key. Do that first.
 If you are in the press two or three places, you have probably moved the needle right there so long as those places are credible and the message is consistent. If your message was random or, heaven forbid, conflicting in those places, you could have done a negative to yourself. Think about how frustrating it is for someone to be in my chair and ask, “Hugh Ballou, what do you do?”
 And if you paused and said, “If you have an hour, I could tell you. Anything less than that and I would be selling it short because it has so many facets,” you’d be absolutely right, and I’d be absolutely annoyed. I would not be able to walk away and write that article.
 I would say, “Figure it out. Come back and send me a note when you’ve got it figured out.”
 Having that message clear, which we have a template for, and—this is the golden rule of communications—think about your readers, your listeners first. So many people just can’t get over this author’s ego. It’s my voice, it’s my persona. I need to be true in my authentic voice. Nobody cares what you dreamed about on your motorcycle trip, even if it was inspiring, or your innermost thoughts about Martin Luther King. Yes, again, inspiring, but your readers care about what’s urgent and high-priority to them. That could be that they want to make difference in an area you are passionate about. Okay, tell them how. Give them something to grasp on. Give them something they can do, something they can know, and a way for them to get on board that is not a hard sell but an invitation that allows them to go as far as they’d like.
 Another aspect of getting over that ego is thinking about where it should appear. Maybe your ego and your credibility would be well-served if you are an author for Forbes. That is great, but the people who say, “I need that. What’s it going to take? Hook a fella up. Make that introduction because I need the credibility of the masthead next to my name. I need that marketing megaphone.” That is the very reason that publication would flee from your presence. They are not there to provide you with a marketing megaphone; they are there to serve their readers, just as you should be. So yes, maybe several articles, like the one you gave the interview to me for. That is an anchor. That is a great thing.
 For the bulk of your communication, put it somewhere where people can more readily engage with you on LinkedIn or Medium, where legally and appropriately you can put a full italicized paragraph (so you are not misleading people that it is a part of your article) that lets them know what they can do next to reach you, engage with you, and subscribe.
 Plus, people who get onto those platforms are ready for a dialogue. They didn’t have to go register for a profile on a magazine where they are kind of semi-nervous or embarrassed and their comment is likely to be, “Nice article. Thank you.” They are ready to engage in a dialogue, and they are more than halfway down the path to getting on board and actually doing something with you.
 There is a gentleman I wrote about recently. You can find my article about him; his name is Benjamin P. Hardy.
 Hugh: I saw that one.
 Cheryl: One of the three most-read writers on Medium. 50,000 subscribers that he gained in a period of 16 months. He made some mistakes in that process, which he was open about. That is key, too, that he was authentic about it. What he did and how he did it, he gave me in this interview. That is gold information. Golden information. One of the things he said is while he has been published in Fortune, Business Insider, and Huffington Post, that is not where he got his subscribership. 99+% came from Medium. Isn’t that interesting?
 Hugh: Fascinating. I heard a couple of things there. One being a Scottish Presbyterian, I heard the word “free.” Could you send me the link? Or send them to where they can download the document. Also, I heard “consistency.” That is something we as entrepreneurs are not very good about. If we want people to buy our product or service, or we want donors to stay donors and raise our donations, we need to be sending them consistent content about what is happening. I encourage leaders who are building organizations to have what I call “advocates,” people who are so important that you send them updates. They are successful people who are in a position to connect you to other successful people. They need information. We call that top-of-mind marketing. They remember you because you stayed in touch.
 Cheryl: I call that influencer marketing.
 Hugh: I love it.
 Cheryl: Those advocates have power; it’s exponential. Everybody wins. They win if they share valued information, and if you are the conduit of that, everybody gains.
 Hugh: What we talked about in my interview in 2013, I reframe leadership as influence. People think that a conductor is a dictator. We cannot influence people with a little white stick, but you can influence them, too. Leadership is influence. Being able to articulate that in words is a great gift.
 This is so helpful, thank you. How do we measure results? We send stuff out, and it just goes out there. How do we know it’s working?
 Cheryl: There are multiple metrics. In the final analysis, it’s going to be the growth or success of the program. But to know where I am specifically getting my best return for the efforts I am making, there are multiple things you could consider. One would be increasing subscribership. In the case of Benjamin Hardy, he noted that even when he was getting 10,000 new subscribers a week, a lot of them were passive participants who were interested and compelled by what he had to say, but that was the extent of it. So he developed a process.
 First of all, he recognized that when he had a really viral, home-run article come out, several hundred thousand people would be hitting his website. He said that his website sucked, he was not prepared, and he had no way to gather in the traction. Now he has learned. Instead of sending people direct to his homepage, he sends people to a landing page that says, Here is how to subscribe. If you do, you can have my free e-book. His e-book is really good: Slipstream Time Hacking. He put a lot of thought and energy into that book. It is high value.
 Give something of high value when people subscribe so they are compelled. In his case, he sends people five email notes in sequence after they have subscribed, describing five of the principles he considers important for productivity. On the sixth mailing, he sends them an invitation to purchase his first product. It is an intro course that is $19. It teaches his seven productivity principles but does so in a high-level way. It’s not like he is giving away a store of everything he could provide. It is high-level, but it is high-value. People get on board and have purchased something. Now he has an active, engaged audience that he knows.
 For example, he is a big proponent of the principles of Stephen R. Covey. Those were an influence for the most viral article he wrote. While he doesn’t have a business or an agenda yet, he knows that he will, and he knows that it is a foregone conclusion that he will need to write, so he is honing those abilities. He is 28 years old for one thing. With that massive audience that he has amassed, those who have subscribed and those who have purchased something, whatever book he introduces next is ordained to be an instant best-seller.  Imagine what you could do with that level of influence. What kind of change could you enact with that power behind you?
 Hugh: When I work with people building out these enterprises, we redefine leadership as influence. Underneath that is building relationship. I will also tell them that underneath communication is building relationship. What you have just described is him building relationship with a tribe of people.
 Cheryl: He has.
 Hugh: We tend to want to rush and get to the sale rather than creating value for people. That is what I heard you say in that. He has created some unique value for people who are now poised on the edge of their seats for the next piece.
 Cheryl: Another influencer, Dean Graziosi, is in the area of real estate. But there is social entrepreneurship in some of his thinking and some of his offerings. His motto, which I love is, “Provide insane value.” Insane value, isn’t that cool. Because he has been successful in doing that, he has attracted people. It’s inevitable.
 When you get that much traction, there are going to be a few vocal people who disagree, who have a bad day and need a hug, or maybe who are just plain turkeys. He says never to ignore that vocal minority. Listen to them. While it is painful, what is the kernel of what they said that maybe you should learn from? Consider that. Consider the source, but also consider that maybe there was a kernel of a message in there that you really did need to hear. That is a little humbling, but important as well.
 Hugh: I like to go another step and have dialogue with them. Sometimes it’s not the words that is the meaning, but something behind the words. Understanding building relationship and value in that communication.
 Cheryl: Sometimes they just want to be heard. They know that you heard them, that you cared, that you listened. Maybe that’s enough. Often it is.
 Hugh: You don’t have to debate the issue. Just say, “Thank you.” Getting over ourselves, as you said earlier, not everybody is going to hear us the same way, and that is so helpful.
 You mentioned earlier thought leadership. Digging deeper, what separates that? Do organizations have more than one thought leader?
 Cheryl: That term maybe is jargon to some, but the term “expert source” is another. “Influencer” is another that everybody understands. Thought leadership would mean that you are somebody with authority who is regarded, who has a following that respect and anticipate and listen to what you say.
 In fact, there is good reason for there to be multiple thought leaders in an organization. For one, suppose there is only one thought leader, who is the CEO, and the CEO leaves or makes a misstep. Think about that. If there are multiple employees, there is another name for that kind of phenomena that not everyone understands, but I think it is powerful: the term is “employee advocacy.” Yes, if there are people in your organization that not only are allowed, but also are invited or compelled to join with you, they gain authority and skills that make them promotable, and they are magnifying your message in a way you could not achieve on your own.
 I have told this story a few times, but I think it bears retelling. A Salt Lake organization had a successful IPO. A new Global Vice President of Communications comes in who is a powerful woman. She observes around her that her sales VPs were publishing on LinkedIn unbeknownst to anyone; they had gone rogue. Not because they were trying to be rebellious, but because it was working. They were gaining sales. Imagine how much better and safer that could be, now that they have SEC requirements to think about. But if they are given the ammunition to keep their brand and message consistent, it saves them the work of having to reinvent every wheel to decide what they are going to write about and share.
 One individual I so admire is John Bowen. He works with financial coaches. He conducts an extensive study every six months so the people he councils and teaches are not having to think, “You have taught me what to do. I need to think of a topic.” It’s handed to them. It’s golden. Now they are walking within the brand, but they are creating their own influence, those power relationships, in a very effective way.
 There is research currently that shows brand advertising. If you see me holding a Diet Coke, you would think I like Diet Coke, and you’d be right. That is not as effective as account selling, where you have a relationship with an individual or there is an environment of trust that is a head start of what you want to do next with that individual. Foster that, and foster as much of it as you can.
 It’s also a reputation protection. If that message is told consistently by multiple people, and you will understand this, there is a polyphonic sound that occurs. There is an orchestra of outcome, not a lone voice. That is powerful. If somebody makes a mistake, we are human, and gets into a reputational mess, you are better protected that way because the whole organization and message did not come down on the back of one flawed individual.
 Hugh: You have a symphony or choir of high-performing individuals, which you nurture. That is why I have reinvented leadership because what we have been taught is not working, is not right.
 You have time constraints today, but I wanted to talk about Content University, your passion behind that, and content marketing.
 Cheryl: We developed a program. The editor I wrote for for four-and-a-half years at Forbes, when Forbes moved headquarters, he took the jump into entrepreneurship and joined my team. He developed with us a curriculum. It’s not a lengthy curriculum; it’s ten lessons. My thought was: How could we put Tom Post in a box and provide that kind of counseling to everyone because they can’t afford it? We made it affordable. That program, which we have on a video book, online, and workshops with people, be it either in person or via Zoom as well, is $1,000. Thought leadership in a box. Every person or organization can manage that. It is honestly less than the price of one article you would engage with an agency to write for you, let alone get it published. Most people can complete that training in ten hours or less. We do provide some direct coaching with them to help make sure they succeed. At the end of that, not only have they completed an exam that gives them our certification—we are working with Hugh to see if we can get an Advanced Continuing Education credit for as many verticals as possible—and a completed publish-worthy article that we would help that individual publish if needed so that they know what to do with it. Even as valuable as a great piece of writing is what to do with it to advance your vision, your mission, your business. That is available and low-cost.
 The last thing is our Snappington Post newsletter. Any of our columns or website will tell you how to subscribe to that. It’s free. That word you love. You just have to subscribe to it. It won’t over-burden you. Every other week, we will send you an email of the articles we have created of value. We are going to start to add to that the best of Content University, the best writing that comes out of our constituent base.
 Hugh: That’s great. We just don’t know how to tell our story. That is priceless. Contentuniversity.com?
 Cheryl: Yes. Or Content U. Either way.
 Hugh: Cheryl, as we wrap up here, I want to invite you to give people a tip that is going to help them revise or rethink their whole communication strategy. But first, it’s snappconner.com or contentuniversity.com or contentu.com. Cheryl’s articles can also be found in SynerVision’s Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine and lots of other places that are important on the web. Google her name and you will see some amazing articles. Just a few that she has referred to are important to learn from, but there are many more.
 As we wrap up this great interview, I am inspired and want to go write something. As we wrap up this interview, what is a tip you like to leave people with? What do you like to tell people so they can go out and do something different? Give them a good tip.
 Cheryl: You can do it. One of my favorite writers I met on LinkedIn, Chris Spurvey, 14 months ago had never written a thing in his life. Nothing. He became a best-selling writer of a self-published book. In the first 30 days, which was in last December, he sold 10,000 copies of his book himself. It’s Time to Sell by Chris Spurvey. Follow his story. I wish I could say he was a Content University graduate, but he intuitively discovered the principles and used them. He writes and shares freely how he did that. You can do it. If he can do it, you can do it.
 Hugh: Cheryl, you are wonderful and amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your tips and your time today.
 Cheryl: Thank you, Hugh.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2016 22:28:51 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/87484184-b329-11eb-9f0f-7badbf705840/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. My guest today has been a really wonderful friend. She knows how to write the right message. The first time I met Cheryl Snapp Conner, she interviewed me. The next thing I knew, there was this article about me...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Hugh: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. My guest today has been a really wonderful friend. She knows how to write the right message. The first time I met Cheryl Snapp Conner, she interviewed me. The next thing I knew, there was this article about me online on Forbes. She understood what I do. When people asked me what I did, I just sent them to that article because in one hour, she got it. We have an important topic to talk about today. Instead of wasting time telling you today about Cheryl, she is sitting in her office today in Salt Lake City, SnappConner PR. Cheryl, welcome.
 Cheryl: Thank you. Happy to be here, Hugh.
 Hugh: I have all kinds of people on this interview series, and I am going to ask you the same question I asked them. What makes you qualified to talk about this topic? Tell me what the topic is. How are we going to tell people what this subject is?
 Cheryl: We are going to talk about communications, which is essentially everything. I am an expert in communications. It’s how I make my career. What a fortunate thing. It was only my minor in college. Most people are not aware of that. I had a different major topic. It was the minor that saved my career bacon. I thank my entire career and every gray hair I have earned in the field of communications. It matters. It is what has been essential to my career, how I have supported my family, and how we have developed our business. It is the core of every business.
 I have been an advocate and proponent of what we call thought leadership communication. From the very core, it was not always known or understood. Even in the earliest days of technology, where I got my career start, it was vital. If you think about those early technology products, they did not have an audience. There were IT people who attempted to communicate to each other, but that was only so useful. In fact, the very reason I was hired by my first technology job—actually second, I was an editor for IBM—but Novell, the leader that premiered local area networking, had a concept in place called networking of PCs. People who needed it or could benefit from it didn’t know what it was. I was specifically chosen as someone who could communicate well and didn’t understand a thing about technology so I wouldn’t have lost my ability to talk about these topics in a way that the general public could grasp and understand. Press releases, not that helpful. Feeds and feeds of something people don’t care about or know about anyway is not going to help. We began by telling the stories of real businesses: law offices, medical practices, education organizations. What do you do? What was the problem? What were your choices? The kind of things you tell your best friend. As you make this decision, who did you have to convince? How much did it cost? If you did this over again, what would you do better next time? Those are meaningful discussions, and that helped. The same is true for every company since. Every entrepreneur has a topic. They have things they are experts in that others could be very pleased to know about.
 Hugh: I invite people to go to Forbes and search Cheryl Snapp Conner. You have a whole series in this entrepreneur channel. Those articles are just so helpful. You really helped me understand what communication is all about, especially with words. You talk about being outside of the technology so you could talk about it differently. Our audience is social entrepreneurs. They are running a business, and we are so intimate with everything that we don’t know how to tell people about it. It seems silly, but we don’t. It’s the same thing with churches and synagogues and local charities. We do great stuff, but the world doesn’t know about it. You are sitting in SnappConner PR. Is it snappconner.com?
 Cheryl: Yes, snappconner.com. But if you just Google my name, you will find it quite easily.
 Hugh: You have a team of highly skilled entrepreneurs. You are strategically placed in a very nice facility, a very good, warm, friendly workplace. I was quite impressed with you and your staff when I visited last week.
 There is also a gap between the professional agency that does it for you and how to raise the bar on creating our own. That is a passion for you: helping all those people who are out there and don’t need a full-time agency as they aren’t ready for one. Content University.
 Cheryl: The legions of entrepreneurs, particularly social entrepreneurs, shouldn’t hire an agency, as they can’t afford it yet. But they do need a bit of savvy. If they do what they can that is free or very low-cost, that is what they should do for as long as they possibly can. Get the help where it is truly needed. Don’t over-spend. That applies to every entrepreneur. Too many will either ignore communications and PR entirely because they feel like they will do that when they become profitable, and then they never do. Or they make mistakes that are just costly or hard to recover from. Or they go whole hog and spend way too much money on the wrong things. That is a waste in another way. In part, it is a waste of the impact you could have had if you used the investment more frugally and with more savvy in the first place.
 Hugh: Well put. These leaders run a charity like a community foundation or a purpose-based charity; they run a church or a synagogue; or they have a small business. We are thinking outside the box. We are doing something innovative. People need to know either to buy from us or to be volunteers or donors for our organization. What is the single most important thing to learn about developing and publishing content to make sure that their vision is really clear?
 Cheryl: I am so glad you asked. There is one thing, but that one thing has two components. One is to really pan down your message and understand it yourself, to verbalize it in the best way possible before you begin. If you think about it, your messaging—and I have a template that I provide free of charge for anyone who’d like it—if you have the best words possible to express what you do and the value proposition for those who should participate, that is a big key. Do that first.
 If you are in the press two or three places, you have probably moved the needle right there so long as those places are credible and the message is consistent. If your message was random or, heaven forbid, conflicting in those places, you could have done a negative to yourself. Think about how frustrating it is for someone to be in my chair and ask, “Hugh Ballou, what do you do?”
 And if you paused and said, “If you have an hour, I could tell you. Anything less than that and I would be selling it short because it has so many facets,” you’d be absolutely right, and I’d be absolutely annoyed. I would not be able to walk away and write that article.
 I would say, “Figure it out. Come back and send me a note when you’ve got it figured out.”
 Having that message clear, which we have a template for, and—this is the golden rule of communications—think about your readers, your listeners first. So many people just can’t get over this author’s ego. It’s my voice, it’s my persona. I need to be true in my authentic voice. Nobody cares what you dreamed about on your motorcycle trip, even if it was inspiring, or your innermost thoughts about Martin Luther King. Yes, again, inspiring, but your readers care about what’s urgent and high-priority to them. That could be that they want to make difference in an area you are passionate about. Okay, tell them how. Give them something to grasp on. Give them something they can do, something they can know, and a way for them to get on board that is not a hard sell but an invitation that allows them to go as far as they’d like.
 Another aspect of getting over that ego is thinking about where it should appear. Maybe your ego and your credibility would be well-served if you are an author for Forbes. That is great, but the people who say, “I need that. What’s it going to take? Hook a fella up. Make that introduction because I need the credibility of the masthead next to my name. I need that marketing megaphone.” That is the very reason that publication would flee from your presence. They are not there to provide you with a marketing megaphone; they are there to serve their readers, just as you should be. So yes, maybe several articles, like the one you gave the interview to me for. That is an anchor. That is a great thing.
 For the bulk of your communication, put it somewhere where people can more readily engage with you on LinkedIn or Medium, where legally and appropriately you can put a full italicized paragraph (so you are not misleading people that it is a part of your article) that lets them know what they can do next to reach you, engage with you, and subscribe.
 Plus, people who get onto those platforms are ready for a dialogue. They didn’t have to go register for a profile on a magazine where they are kind of semi-nervous or embarrassed and their comment is likely to be, “Nice article. Thank you.” They are ready to engage in a dialogue, and they are more than halfway down the path to getting on board and actually doing something with you.
 There is a gentleman I wrote about recently. You can find my article about him; his name is Benjamin P. Hardy.
 Hugh: I saw that one.
 Cheryl: One of the three most-read writers on Medium. 50,000 subscribers that he gained in a period of 16 months. He made some mistakes in that process, which he was open about. That is key, too, that he was authentic about it. What he did and how he did it, he gave me in this interview. That is gold information. Golden information. One of the things he said is while he has been published in Fortune, Business Insider, and Huffington Post, that is not where he got his subscribership. 99+% came from Medium. Isn’t that interesting?
 Hugh: Fascinating. I heard a couple of things there. One being a Scottish Presbyterian, I heard the word “free.” Could you send me the link? Or send them to where they can download the document. Also, I heard “consistency.” That is something we as entrepreneurs are not very good about. If we want people to buy our product or service, or we want donors to stay donors and raise our donations, we need to be sending them consistent content about what is happening. I encourage leaders who are building organizations to have what I call “advocates,” people who are so important that you send them updates. They are successful people who are in a position to connect you to other successful people. They need information. We call that top-of-mind marketing. They remember you because you stayed in touch.
 Cheryl: I call that influencer marketing.
 Hugh: I love it.
 Cheryl: Those advocates have power; it’s exponential. Everybody wins. They win if they share valued information, and if you are the conduit of that, everybody gains.
 Hugh: What we talked about in my interview in 2013, I reframe leadership as influence. People think that a conductor is a dictator. We cannot influence people with a little white stick, but you can influence them, too. Leadership is influence. Being able to articulate that in words is a great gift.
 This is so helpful, thank you. How do we measure results? We send stuff out, and it just goes out there. How do we know it’s working?
 Cheryl: There are multiple metrics. In the final analysis, it’s going to be the growth or success of the program. But to know where I am specifically getting my best return for the efforts I am making, there are multiple things you could consider. One would be increasing subscribership. In the case of Benjamin Hardy, he noted that even when he was getting 10,000 new subscribers a week, a lot of them were passive participants who were interested and compelled by what he had to say, but that was the extent of it. So he developed a process.
 First of all, he recognized that when he had a really viral, home-run article come out, several hundred thousand people would be hitting his website. He said that his website sucked, he was not prepared, and he had no way to gather in the traction. Now he has learned. Instead of sending people direct to his homepage, he sends people to a landing page that says, Here is how to subscribe. If you do, you can have my free e-book. His e-book is really good: Slipstream Time Hacking. He put a lot of thought and energy into that book. It is high value.
 Give something of high value when people subscribe so they are compelled. In his case, he sends people five email notes in sequence after they have subscribed, describing five of the principles he considers important for productivity. On the sixth mailing, he sends them an invitation to purchase his first product. It is an intro course that is $19. It teaches his seven productivity principles but does so in a high-level way. It’s not like he is giving away a store of everything he could provide. It is high-level, but it is high-value. People get on board and have purchased something. Now he has an active, engaged audience that he knows.
 For example, he is a big proponent of the principles of Stephen R. Covey. Those were an influence for the most viral article he wrote. While he doesn’t have a business or an agenda yet, he knows that he will, and he knows that it is a foregone conclusion that he will need to write, so he is honing those abilities. He is 28 years old for one thing. With that massive audience that he has amassed, those who have subscribed and those who have purchased something, whatever book he introduces next is ordained to be an instant best-seller.  Imagine what you could do with that level of influence. What kind of change could you enact with that power behind you?
 Hugh: When I work with people building out these enterprises, we redefine leadership as influence. Underneath that is building relationship. I will also tell them that underneath communication is building relationship. What you have just described is him building relationship with a tribe of people.
 Cheryl: He has.
 Hugh: We tend to want to rush and get to the sale rather than creating value for people. That is what I heard you say in that. He has created some unique value for people who are now poised on the edge of their seats for the next piece.
 Cheryl: Another influencer, Dean Graziosi, is in the area of real estate. But there is social entrepreneurship in some of his thinking and some of his offerings. His motto, which I love is, “Provide insane value.” Insane value, isn’t that cool. Because he has been successful in doing that, he has attracted people. It’s inevitable.
 When you get that much traction, there are going to be a few vocal people who disagree, who have a bad day and need a hug, or maybe who are just plain turkeys. He says never to ignore that vocal minority. Listen to them. While it is painful, what is the kernel of what they said that maybe you should learn from? Consider that. Consider the source, but also consider that maybe there was a kernel of a message in there that you really did need to hear. That is a little humbling, but important as well.
 Hugh: I like to go another step and have dialogue with them. Sometimes it’s not the words that is the meaning, but something behind the words. Understanding building relationship and value in that communication.
 Cheryl: Sometimes they just want to be heard. They know that you heard them, that you cared, that you listened. Maybe that’s enough. Often it is.
 Hugh: You don’t have to debate the issue. Just say, “Thank you.” Getting over ourselves, as you said earlier, not everybody is going to hear us the same way, and that is so helpful.
 You mentioned earlier thought leadership. Digging deeper, what separates that? Do organizations have more than one thought leader?
 Cheryl: That term maybe is jargon to some, but the term “expert source” is another. “Influencer” is another that everybody understands. Thought leadership would mean that you are somebody with authority who is regarded, who has a following that respect and anticipate and listen to what you say.
 In fact, there is good reason for there to be multiple thought leaders in an organization. For one, suppose there is only one thought leader, who is the CEO, and the CEO leaves or makes a misstep. Think about that. If there are multiple employees, there is another name for that kind of phenomena that not everyone understands, but I think it is powerful: the term is “employee advocacy.” Yes, if there are people in your organization that not only are allowed, but also are invited or compelled to join with you, they gain authority and skills that make them promotable, and they are magnifying your message in a way you could not achieve on your own.
 I have told this story a few times, but I think it bears retelling. A Salt Lake organization had a successful IPO. A new Global Vice President of Communications comes in who is a powerful woman. She observes around her that her sales VPs were publishing on LinkedIn unbeknownst to anyone; they had gone rogue. Not because they were trying to be rebellious, but because it was working. They were gaining sales. Imagine how much better and safer that could be, now that they have SEC requirements to think about. But if they are given the ammunition to keep their brand and message consistent, it saves them the work of having to reinvent every wheel to decide what they are going to write about and share.
 One individual I so admire is John Bowen. He works with financial coaches. He conducts an extensive study every six months so the people he councils and teaches are not having to think, “You have taught me what to do. I need to think of a topic.” It’s handed to them. It’s golden. Now they are walking within the brand, but they are creating their own influence, those power relationships, in a very effective way.
 There is research currently that shows brand advertising. If you see me holding a Diet Coke, you would think I like Diet Coke, and you’d be right. That is not as effective as account selling, where you have a relationship with an individual or there is an environment of trust that is a head start of what you want to do next with that individual. Foster that, and foster as much of it as you can.
 It’s also a reputation protection. If that message is told consistently by multiple people, and you will understand this, there is a polyphonic sound that occurs. There is an orchestra of outcome, not a lone voice. That is powerful. If somebody makes a mistake, we are human, and gets into a reputational mess, you are better protected that way because the whole organization and message did not come down on the back of one flawed individual.
 Hugh: You have a symphony or choir of high-performing individuals, which you nurture. That is why I have reinvented leadership because what we have been taught is not working, is not right.
 You have time constraints today, but I wanted to talk about Content University, your passion behind that, and content marketing.
 Cheryl: We developed a program. The editor I wrote for for four-and-a-half years at Forbes, when Forbes moved headquarters, he took the jump into entrepreneurship and joined my team. He developed with us a curriculum. It’s not a lengthy curriculum; it’s ten lessons. My thought was: How could we put Tom Post in a box and provide that kind of counseling to everyone because they can’t afford it? We made it affordable. That program, which we have on a video book, online, and workshops with people, be it either in person or via Zoom as well, is $1,000. Thought leadership in a box. Every person or organization can manage that. It is honestly less than the price of one article you would engage with an agency to write for you, let alone get it published. Most people can complete that training in ten hours or less. We do provide some direct coaching with them to help make sure they succeed. At the end of that, not only have they completed an exam that gives them our certification—we are working with Hugh to see if we can get an Advanced Continuing Education credit for as many verticals as possible—and a completed publish-worthy article that we would help that individual publish if needed so that they know what to do with it. Even as valuable as a great piece of writing is what to do with it to advance your vision, your mission, your business. That is available and low-cost.
 The last thing is our Snappington Post newsletter. Any of our columns or website will tell you how to subscribe to that. It’s free. That word you love. You just have to subscribe to it. It won’t over-burden you. Every other week, we will send you an email of the articles we have created of value. We are going to start to add to that the best of Content University, the best writing that comes out of our constituent base.
 Hugh: That’s great. We just don’t know how to tell our story. That is priceless. Contentuniversity.com?
 Cheryl: Yes. Or Content U. Either way.
 Hugh: Cheryl, as we wrap up here, I want to invite you to give people a tip that is going to help them revise or rethink their whole communication strategy. But first, it’s snappconner.com or contentuniversity.com or contentu.com. Cheryl’s articles can also be found in SynerVision’s Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine and lots of other places that are important on the web. Google her name and you will see some amazing articles. Just a few that she has referred to are important to learn from, but there are many more.
 As we wrap up this great interview, I am inspired and want to go write something. As we wrap up this interview, what is a tip you like to leave people with? What do you like to tell people so they can go out and do something different? Give them a good tip.
 Cheryl: You can do it. One of my favorite writers I met on LinkedIn, Chris Spurvey, 14 months ago had never written a thing in his life. Nothing. He became a best-selling writer of a self-published book. In the first 30 days, which was in last December, he sold 10,000 copies of his book himself. It’s Time to Sell by Chris Spurvey. Follow his story. I wish I could say he was a Content University graduate, but he intuitively discovered the principles and used them. He writes and shares freely how he did that. You can do it. If he can do it, you can do it.
 Hugh: Cheryl, you are wonderful and amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your tips and your time today.
 Cheryl: Thank you, Hugh.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. My guest today has been a really wonderful friend. She knows how to write the right message. The first time I met Cheryl Snapp Conner, she interviewed me. The next thing I knew, there was this article about me online on Forbes. She understood what I do. When people asked me what I did, I just sent them to that article because in one hour, she got it. We have an important topic to talk about today. Instead of wasting time telling you today about Cheryl, she is sitting in her office today in Salt Lake City, SnappConner PR. Cheryl, welcome.</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>Thank you. Happy to be here, Hugh.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>I have all kinds of people on this interview series, and I am going to ask you the same question I asked them. What makes you qualified to talk about this topic? Tell me what the topic is. How are we going to tell people what this subject is?</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>We are going to talk about communications, which is essentially everything. I am an expert in communications. It’s how I make my career. What a fortunate thing. It was only my minor in college. Most people are not aware of that. I had a different major topic. It was the minor that saved my career bacon. I thank my entire career and every gray hair I have earned in the field of communications. It matters. It is what has been essential to my career, how I have supported my family, and how we have developed our business. It is the core of every business.</p> <p>I have been an advocate and proponent of what we call thought leadership communication. From the very core, it was not always known or understood. Even in the earliest days of technology, where I got my career start, it was vital. If you think about those early technology products, they did not have an audience. There were IT people who attempted to communicate to each other, but that was only so useful. In fact, the very reason I was hired by my first technology job—actually second, I was an editor for IBM—but Novell, the leader that premiered local area networking, had a concept in place called networking of PCs. People who needed it or could benefit from it didn’t know what it was. I was specifically chosen as someone who could communicate well and didn’t understand a thing about technology so I wouldn’t have lost my ability to talk about these topics in a way that the general public could grasp and understand. Press releases, not that helpful. Feeds and feeds of something people don’t care about or know about anyway is not going to help. We began by telling the stories of real businesses: law offices, medical practices, education organizations. What do you do? What was the problem? What were your choices? The kind of things you tell your best friend. As you make this decision, who did you have to convince? How much did it cost? If you did this over again, what would you do better next time? Those are meaningful discussions, and that helped. The same is true for every company since. Every entrepreneur has a topic. They have things they are experts in that others could be very pleased to know about.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>I invite people to go to Forbes and search Cheryl Snapp Conner. You have a whole series in this entrepreneur channel. Those articles are just so helpful. You really helped me understand what communication is all about, especially with words. You talk about being outside of the technology so you could talk about it differently. Our audience is social entrepreneurs. They are running a business, and we are so intimate with everything that we don’t know how to tell people about it. It seems silly, but we don’t. It’s the same thing with churches and synagogues and local charities. We do great stuff, but the world doesn’t know about it. You are sitting in SnappConner PR. Is it snappconner.com?</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>Yes, snappconner.com. But if you just Google my name, you will find it quite easily.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>You have a team of highly skilled entrepreneurs. You are strategically placed in a very nice facility, a very good, warm, friendly workplace. I was quite impressed with you and your staff when I visited last week.</p> <p>There is also a gap between the professional agency that does it for you and how to raise the bar on creating our own. That is a passion for you: helping all those people who are out there and don’t need a full-time agency as they aren’t ready for one. Content University.</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>The legions of entrepreneurs, particularly social entrepreneurs, shouldn’t hire an agency, as they can’t afford it yet. But they do need a bit of savvy. If they do what they can that is free or very low-cost, that is what they should do for as long as they possibly can. Get the help where it is truly needed. Don’t over-spend. That applies to every entrepreneur. Too many will either ignore communications and PR entirely because they feel like they will do that when they become profitable, and then they never do. Or they make mistakes that are just costly or hard to recover from. Or they go whole hog and spend way too much money on the wrong things. That is a waste in another way. In part, it is a waste of the impact you could have had if you used the investment more frugally and with more savvy in the first place.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Well put. These leaders run a charity like a community foundation or a purpose-based charity; they run a church or a synagogue; or they have a small business. We are thinking outside the box. We are doing something innovative. People need to know either to buy from us or to be volunteers or donors for our organization. What is the single most important thing to learn about developing and publishing content to make sure that their vision is really clear?</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>I am so glad you asked. There is one thing, but that one thing has two components. One is to really pan down your message and understand it yourself, to verbalize it in the best way possible before you begin. If you think about it, your messaging—and I have a template that I provide free of charge for anyone who’d like it—if you have the best words possible to express what you do and the value proposition for those who should participate, that is a big key. Do that first.</p> <p>If you are in the press two or three places, you have probably moved the needle right there so long as those places are credible and the message is consistent. If your message was random or, heaven forbid, conflicting in those places, you could have done a negative to yourself. Think about how frustrating it is for someone to be in my chair and ask, “Hugh Ballou, what do you do?”</p> <p>And if you paused and said, “If you have an hour, I could tell you. Anything less than that and I would be selling it short because it has so many facets,” you’d be absolutely right, and I’d be absolutely annoyed. I would not be able to walk away and write that article.</p> <p>I would say, “Figure it out. Come back and send me a note when you’ve got it figured out.”</p> <p>Having that message clear, which we have a template for, and—this is the golden rule of communications—think about your readers, your listeners first. So many people just can’t get over this author’s ego. It’s my voice, it’s my persona. I need to be true in my authentic voice. Nobody cares what you dreamed about on your motorcycle trip, even if it was inspiring, or your innermost thoughts about Martin Luther King. Yes, again, inspiring, but your readers care about what’s urgent and high-priority to them. That could be that they want to make difference in an area you are passionate about. Okay, tell them how. Give them something to grasp on. Give them something they can do, something they can know, and a way for them to get on board that is not a hard sell but an invitation that allows them to go as far as they’d like.</p> <p>Another aspect of getting over that ego is thinking about where it should appear. Maybe your ego and your credibility would be well-served if you are an author for <em>Forbes. </em>That is great, but the people who say, “I need that. What’s it going to take? Hook a fella up. Make that introduction because I need the credibility of the masthead next to my name. I need that marketing megaphone.” That is the very reason that publication would flee from your presence. They are not there to provide you with a marketing megaphone; they are there to serve their readers, just as you should be. So yes, maybe several articles, like the one you gave the interview to me for. That is an anchor. That is a great thing.</p> <p>For the bulk of your communication, put it somewhere where people can more readily engage with you on LinkedIn or Medium, where legally and appropriately you can put a full italicized paragraph (so you are not misleading people that it is a part of your article) that lets them know what they can do next to reach you, engage with you, and subscribe.</p> <p>Plus, people who get onto those platforms are ready for a dialogue. They didn’t have to go register for a profile on a magazine where they are kind of semi-nervous or embarrassed and their comment is likely to be, “Nice article. Thank you.” They are ready to engage in a dialogue, and they are more than halfway down the path to getting on board and actually doing something with you.</p> <p>There is a gentleman I wrote about recently. You can find my article about him; his name is Benjamin P. Hardy.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>I saw that one.</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>One of the three most-read writers on Medium. 50,000 subscribers that he gained in a period of 16 months. He made some mistakes in that process, which he was open about. That is key, too, that he was authentic about it. What he did and how he did it, he gave me in this interview. That is gold information. Golden information. One of the things he said is while he has been published in <em>Fortune, Business Insider, </em>and <em>Huffington Post, </em>that is not where he got his subscribership. 99+% came from Medium. Isn’t that interesting?</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Fascinating. I heard a couple of things there. One being a Scottish Presbyterian, I heard the word “free.” Could you send me the link? Or send them to where they can download the document. Also, I heard “consistency.” That is something we as entrepreneurs are not very good about. If we want people to buy our product or service, or we want donors to stay donors and raise our donations, we need to be sending them consistent content about what is happening. I encourage leaders who are building organizations to have what I call “advocates,” people who are so important that you send them updates. They are successful people who are in a position to connect you to other successful people. They need information. We call that top-of-mind marketing. They remember you because you stayed in touch.</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>I call that influencer marketing.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>I love it.</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>Those advocates have power; it’s exponential. Everybody wins. They win if they share valued information, and if you are the conduit of that, everybody gains.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>What we talked about in my interview in 2013, I reframe leadership as influence. People think that a conductor is a dictator. We cannot influence people with a little white stick, but you can influence them, too. Leadership is influence. Being able to articulate that in words is a great gift.</p> <p>This is so helpful, thank you. How do we measure results? We send stuff out, and it just goes out there. How do we know it’s working?</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>There are multiple metrics. In the final analysis, it’s going to be the growth or success of the program. But to know where I am specifically getting my best return for the efforts I am making, there are multiple things you could consider. One would be increasing subscribership. In the case of Benjamin Hardy, he noted that even when he was getting 10,000 new subscribers a week, a lot of them were passive participants who were interested and compelled by what he had to say, but that was the extent of it. So he developed a process.</p> <p>First of all, he recognized that when he had a really viral, home-run article come out, several hundred thousand people would be hitting his website. He said that his website sucked, he was not prepared, and he had no way to gather in the traction. Now he has learned. Instead of sending people direct to his homepage, he sends people to a landing page that says, Here is how to subscribe. If you do, you can have my free e-book. His e-book is really good: <em>Slipstream Time Hacking. </em>He put a lot of thought and energy into that book. It is high value.</p> <p>Give something of high value when people subscribe so they are compelled. In his case, he sends people five email notes in sequence after they have subscribed, describing five of the principles he considers important for productivity. On the sixth mailing, he sends them an invitation to purchase his first product. It is an intro course that is $19. It teaches his seven productivity principles but does so in a high-level way. It’s not like he is giving away a store of everything he could provide. It is high-level, but it is high-value. People get on board and have purchased something. Now he has an active, engaged audience that he knows.</p> <p>For example, he is a big proponent of the principles of Stephen R. Covey. Those were an influence for the most viral article he wrote. While he doesn’t have a business or an agenda yet, he knows that he will, and he knows that it is a foregone conclusion that he will need to write, so he is honing those abilities. He is 28 years old for one thing. With that massive audience that he has amassed, those who have subscribed and those who have purchased something, whatever book he introduces next is ordained to be an instant best-seller.  Imagine what you could do with that level of influence. What kind of change could you enact with that power behind you?</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>When I work with people building out these enterprises, we redefine leadership as influence. Underneath that is building relationship. I will also tell them that underneath communication is building relationship. What you have just described is him building relationship with a tribe of people.</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>He has.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>We tend to want to rush and get to the sale rather than creating value for people. That is what I heard you say in that. He has created some unique value for people who are now poised on the edge of their seats for the next piece.</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>Another influencer, Dean Graziosi, is in the area of real estate. But there is social entrepreneurship in some of his thinking and some of his offerings. His motto, which I love is, “Provide insane value.” Insane value, isn’t that cool. Because he has been successful in doing that, he has attracted people. It’s inevitable.</p> <p>When you get that much traction, there are going to be a few vocal people who disagree, who have a bad day and need a hug, or maybe who are just plain turkeys. He says never to ignore that vocal minority. Listen to them. While it is painful, what is the kernel of what they said that maybe you should learn from? Consider that. Consider the source, but also consider that maybe there was a kernel of a message in there that you really did need to hear. That is a little humbling, but important as well.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>I like to go another step and have dialogue with them. Sometimes it’s not the words that is the meaning, but something behind the words. Understanding building relationship and value in that communication.</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>Sometimes they just want to be heard. They know that you heard them, that you cared, that you listened. Maybe that’s enough. Often it is.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>You don’t have to debate the issue. Just say, “Thank you.” Getting over ourselves, as you said earlier, not everybody is going to hear us the same way, and that is so helpful.</p> <p>You mentioned earlier thought leadership. Digging deeper, what separates that? Do organizations have more than one thought leader?</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>That term maybe is jargon to some, but the term “expert source” is another. “Influencer” is another that everybody understands. Thought leadership would mean that you are somebody with authority who is regarded, who has a following that respect and anticipate and listen to what you say.</p> <p>In fact, there is good reason for there to be multiple thought leaders in an organization. For one, suppose there is only one thought leader, who is the CEO, and the CEO leaves or makes a misstep. Think about that. If there are multiple employees, there is another name for that kind of phenomena that not everyone understands, but I think it is powerful: the term is “employee advocacy.” Yes, if there are people in your organization that not only are allowed, but also are invited or compelled to join with you, they gain authority and skills that make them promotable, and they are magnifying your message in a way you could not achieve on your own.</p> <p>I have told this story a few times, but I think it bears retelling. A Salt Lake organization had a successful IPO. A new Global Vice President of Communications comes in who is a powerful woman. She observes around her that her sales VPs were publishing on LinkedIn unbeknownst to anyone; they had gone rogue. Not because they were trying to be rebellious, but because it was working. They were gaining sales. Imagine how much better and safer that could be, now that they have SEC requirements to think about. But if they are given the ammunition to keep their brand and message consistent, it saves them the work of having to reinvent every wheel to decide what they are going to write about and share.</p> <p>One individual I so admire is John Bowen. He works with financial coaches. He conducts an extensive study every six months so the people he councils and teaches are not having to think, “You have taught me what to do. I need to think of a topic.” It’s handed to them. It’s golden. Now they are walking within the brand, but they are creating their own influence, those power relationships, in a very effective way.</p> <p>There is research currently that shows brand advertising. If you see me holding a Diet Coke, you would think I like Diet Coke, and you’d be right. That is not as effective as account selling, where you have a relationship with an individual or there is an environment of trust that is a head start of what you want to do next with that individual. Foster that, and foster as much of it as you can.</p> <p>It’s also a reputation protection. If that message is told consistently by multiple people, and you will understand this, there is a polyphonic sound that occurs. There is an orchestra of outcome, not a lone voice. That is powerful. If somebody makes a mistake, we are human, and gets into a reputational mess, you are better protected that way because the whole organization and message did not come down on the back of one flawed individual.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>You have a symphony or choir of high-performing individuals, which you nurture. That is why I have reinvented leadership because what we have been taught is not working, is not right.</p> <p>You have time constraints today, but I wanted to talk about Content University, your passion behind that, and content marketing.</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>We developed a program. The editor I wrote for for four-and-a-half years at <em>Forbes</em>, when <em>Forbes</em> moved headquarters, he took the jump into entrepreneurship and joined my team. He developed with us a curriculum. It’s not a lengthy curriculum; it’s ten lessons. My thought was: How could we put Tom Post in a box and provide that kind of counseling to everyone because they can’t afford it? We made it affordable. That program, which we have on a video book, online, and workshops with people, be it either in person or via Zoom as well, is $1,000. Thought leadership in a box. Every person or organization can manage that. It is honestly less than the price of one article you would engage with an agency to write for you, let alone get it published. Most people can complete that training in ten hours or less. We do provide some direct coaching with them to help make sure they succeed. At the end of that, not only have they completed an exam that gives them our certification—we are working with Hugh to see if we can get an Advanced Continuing Education credit for as many verticals as possible—and a completed publish-worthy article that we would help that individual publish if needed so that they know what to do with it. Even as valuable as a great piece of writing is what to do with it to advance your vision, your mission, your business. That is available and low-cost.</p> <p>The last thing is our Snappington Post newsletter. Any of our columns or website will tell you how to subscribe to that. It’s free. That word you love. You just have to subscribe to it. It won’t over-burden you. Every other week, we will send you an email of the articles we have created of value. We are going to start to add to that the best of Content University, the best writing that comes out of our constituent base.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>That’s great. We just don’t know how to tell our story. That is priceless. Contentuniversity.com?</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>Yes. Or Content U. Either way.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Cheryl, as we wrap up here, I want to invite you to give people a tip that is going to help them revise or rethink their whole communication strategy. But first, it’s snappconner.com or contentuniversity.com or contentu.com. Cheryl’s articles can also be found in SynerVision’s <em>Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine</em> and lots of other places that are important on the web. Google her name and you will see some amazing articles. Just a few that she has referred to are important to learn from, but there are many more.</p> <p>As we wrap up this great interview, I am inspired and want to go write something. As we wrap up this interview, what is a tip you like to leave people with? What do you like to tell people so they can go out and do something different? Give them a good tip.</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>You can do it. One of my favorite writers I met on LinkedIn, Chris Spurvey, 14 months ago had never written a thing in his life. Nothing. He became a best-selling writer of a self-published book. In the first 30 days, which was in last December, he sold 10,000 copies of his book himself. <em>It’s Time to Sell </em>by Chris Spurvey. Follow his story. I wish I could say he was a Content University graduate, but he intuitively discovered the principles and used them. He writes and shares freely how he did that. You can do it. If he can do it, you can do it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Cheryl, you are wonderful and amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your tips and your time today.</p> <p><strong>Cheryl: </strong>Thank you, Hugh.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <description>Hugh: Hey, this is Hugh Ballou. My guest today is Gaydon Leavitt. His friends call him G. G, I hope I can call you that. I am your friend, right?
 Gaydon: Absolutely.
 Hugh: I met G recently, and I was just blown away by the level of his expertise in marketing and the level of the programs he has to offer those of us who are social entrepreneurs. We are working in a vacuum sometimes, and we think everybody ought to clamor to our door. But we really have not developed a marketing strategy to attract those people to the value that we have. G, welcome today.
 Gaydon: Thank you for having me.
 Hugh: We have a very dedicated group of social entrepreneurs who are changing the world. We don’t have a corporate job by choice because we have a value proposition that is just awesome. But we are stuck. Tell us a little more about your background. Why is it that you are qualified to talk to us about marketing? I know, but give us a little snapshot for people that are listening today.
 Gaydon: Marketing is the only thing I have ever done. There’s that. I worked at Ford doing the digital agency movement. This was in 2004-2006; this was before social media if you can imagine. At that time, I was really in charge of building an Internet department, getting CRM up and running. That was back before CRM was common. Everyone knows what a CRM is these days usually.
 Hugh: Tell us what that stands for.
 Gaydon: Customer Relationship Management software.
 Hugh: Is that Ford Motor Company?
 Gaydon: Yeah. This was at a regional group of dealerships. I was working for them and basically getting infrastructure in place. The punchline is that I did that for long enough—CRM, website, search engines, all that stuff. I was at the forefront of that. Once I got it set up for them, I knew that everyone else needed it. I started a digital agency. Back then, it wasn’t called a digital agency, but now it is. These days, digital agencies are really commonplace. A lot of companies do websites, search engine optimization, and social media. I was at the forefront of all that. Most people who know my background know that the real driver for what I’m doing is always being on the bleeding edge of the market, the innovation side of the market. When it comes to marketing, I am always looking for where it’s going and try to steal ahead.
 Hugh: Let me get this straight. You do things that work in real life. This is not just theory?
 Gaydon: Not at all. To give you an idea, I started my company January 1, 2007. It was actually January 2 because the city office wasn’t open January 1. The point is, 2007 was not the greatest year to start a business, it turns out. 2008 rolled in, the recession took its toll, but I grew our company 235% four years in a row. We did 700 client engagements, well over a million dollars. We were having a ball. We were having a good time. What happens was through the middle of a recession and growth, I became one of the top people in my field in the West, as it were, certainly in our state, which is the marketing capital of the universe.
 In 2012, I woke up. After having done strategy and digital services for 700 customers, I had really curated a case study. The 700-business case study. I knew what was going on because I was knee-deep in strategic marketing relationships with these 700 businesses. What I did was I compiled the data as it were. I put together the things that I knew were a problem. I knew people were missing. I did what I called root-cause analysis. This goes back to theory of constraints and other things I studied. I did a root-cause analysis to figure out what are the real problems in the SBM or small entrepreneurship space. What are they doing wrong? Who are they hiring? Why are they hiring them? Why are the engagements working? Why are they not working? What happened in 2012 was I wrote a plan to solve those problems. Between then and now, I have stopped those digital services and really dedicated myself to solving the problems I have found.
 Hugh: I do a one-day leadership empowerment symposium in one city every month. I am coming to your neighborhood, but I haven’t put it on the schedule yet. But I find there are common things: leader burnout. They are doing way too much. They don’t even have time to think about marketing. Their board is underfunctioning, their staff is not functioning at the level it should, and they are not making the revenue that they need to achieve their vision. You have done this real-life work, which matches with what I’m seeing. We are talking to the leaders of these movements. These people have great ideas. What is the leadership decision? Why shouldn’t someone just hire someone to do marketing and then forget about it? What do leaders need to know about marketing in order to make an intelligent decision about getting someone like you engaged for their enterprise?
 Gaydon: The first thing they need to know is that hiring a marketing agency and then turning your back—in other words, outsourcing and allocating your responsibility to grow your organization—doesn’t work. Nine times out of ten, it just does not work. The phrase we like to use is: You cannot outsource what you have given yourself the responsibility to do.
 The first question you need to ask is: Who is wearing the CRO or the CMO hat? CRO is Chief Revenue Officer. CMO is Chief Marketing Officer. The point is, somebody has that hat on right this second. Who has that hat? What I am saying in no uncertain terms is if you give that hat to someone who does not work at your company or is dedicated to that function and you give it to an outsource provider… I am not saying you can’t bring in a part-time CMO or CRO that serves that purpose that is technically a 1099. That’s fine; that can work. To hand it to an agency and think they will run the growth of your company the way you want it to is fallacious at best. So who wears the CRO hat?
 If that person is defined, the next question is: Do they have the skills to play the role? I like to follow that up with a little bit of philosophy. At the end of the day, Peter Truckers’ quote rings in my ears, and it should ring in everyone’s ears who is listening to this call. “The business enterprise has two and only two basic functions: marketing and innovation. All the rest are costs.” The spirit of what he is trying to say is the purpose of the enterprise is to gain a customer. Marketing’s job is to gain a customer. I use customer loosely. We are talking customer, client, patient, donor, whatever it means. I’ll use customer loosely. The point is that is the purpose of your enterprise. If you have a social enterprise and the purpose of it is not to make a profit, that’s fine. This isn’t capitalism necessarily for you. But you will never change the world with your social entrepreneurship if you can’t make money. You can’t accomplish your mission without the cash, and you can’t get the cash without the marketing.
 We say marketing in academic terms. Marketing is the process by which we take what we have to the market. It’s not advertising, it’s not PR, and it’s not sales. It’s the holism of all of that. How are you going to get what you have to the audience you want to have it? The science of that is really the spirit of what I do. It’s your responsibility unless you have given it to somebody else. In that case, we are talking to that person. But the conversation needs to have a place where the buck stops. Somebody is wearing the hat. That’s where I start.
 Hugh: You have distinguished a number of different things. For 30 years, I have worked with charities doing my vision of strategic planning, which I call a solution map. Where do you want to be, and how are you going to get there? A traditional component is the same components for normal companies, but it is modified for charities. Part of it is realizing that nonprofit is a tax classification, not a philosophy. The other one is to build into this marketing strategy, which is not an area of my expertise. That is part of why we are talking today. I do have other collaborators in experts and sales and PR. People tend to confuse all of those things. You have distinguished what those are.
 You highlighted a really important leadership paradigm. It’s the piece of delegation. People who are leaders think they know about delegation. Here, do this and they forget it. That’s not delegation. There is a mentoring piece that goes with that. There is a championing piece. There is an accountability installation. There is a follow-up piece, which is way different than micro-managing. Whether you are hiring someone internally or externally, I would like to add that I agree with all of that. We still as leaders want to define the outcomes, and then we work with whomever it is for them to tell us what the metrics are and the tactics we are going to use to get there. We as a leader still nurture and approve that. If we are not engaged at any level as a leader, that is a problem. The trick is not to overfunction and to find someone gifted and to be engaged enough so that we can tweak it. Who knows more about our vision than us? Who understands the outcomes more than us? We as leaders are not clear on the outcomes, and we are not clear on how to delegate or manage a process. How do you feel about that?
 Gaydon: I totally agree. From the context of marketing, I see the problems that you are talking about but from the marketing angle. That’s the lens that I view things from because that is my subject matter of expertise. Let me make this real tactical for you, Hugh.
 Once we define who that CRO/CMO is, and for those of you who are listening, you just felt a tremendous responsibility realizing that that hat is on your head. If that is the case, I want to relieve you because that is the first step: realizing that it is your responsibility. Once you know that, the good news is that the case study I was talking about, with 700 businesses, here is what we found. The CRO/CMO position should be a strategic one. Customer acquisition, donor acquisition, whatever you want to call it, marketing departments function best when there is a strategic person whose responsibility is strategy and high-level decision making. When there is someone who is not charge of strategy and is operational, they are in the weeds. The good news is if you are wearing the CMO hat today, you can do that responsibility with as little as 20-30 minutes a week.
 Hugh:  That’s awesome.
 Gaydon: I have engineered a system for that. I am not saying it’s easy. It took me a long time to build something. But the punchline is that you don’t need to be overwhelmed by the responsibility. You just need to take it seriously. I have built what some people call the CMO’s toolkit to enable that person who is playing the CMO role part-time as it were because they are wearing ten other hats to do that job well. The mistake people make in my world, and I don’t know if it adapts itself to the other areas that you focus on, is they think of the CMO as the end-all be-all. They don’t think of them as the strategic outlet. They think of them as strategy, execution, the kitchen sink. The CMO should not be in the weeds communicating with every single vendor, trying to figure out all the details, editing the site, writing all the copy. That is not what CMOs should be doing. The mistake people make is they think they need marketing, so they think they can hire a CMO. Maybe I can hire a marketing manager. That person inherently has skills. Marketing is too broad to give it to someone and expect them to do all of it. You have to get more intelligent about that hire, that function. Whether you are hiring or not is really irrelevant. The function of that role is really what we are talking about. Strategy versus implementation or management, those are two different things.
 When I am looking for a marketing manager, someone to work under a CMO, I look for an ops person, someone who is operationally savvy. This is someone who never lets anything fall through the cracks. They are super OCD. They never show up late. You know the type, right? They are not the person who you peg as a marketing person. They are more of an executive assistant who happens to understand the marketing strategy well enough to take it to execution. Those are the best marketing managers.
 The punchline is if you have one of those people, and it was your responsibility to be the CMO, all you have to do is a 30-minute-a-week meeting with a marketing manager who knows how to run marketing, who knows how to do all the tactics. I don’t mean tactics from the perspective of a marketing manager as a copywriter or a programmer or a designer. Those are functions you need to hire out. Outsource those effectively to the right programmer, to the right price. Live with the consequence. Have the marketing manager do all of that. There is a system. It’s almost like you were getting into human capital hierarchy. That is probably pretty similar to what you are talking about.
 Hugh: It is. I spent 40 years as a musical conductor, and the image on the podcast is me in my tails. It’s Orchestrating Success. What you just defined is orchestrating success. I would hire the best players. I hired members of the Atlanta Symphony when I was in Atlanta who were very skilled. They were also union members. Downbeats when you start, and two hours later, you get paid for a two-hour gig, and they are either leaving or you are paying overtime. My job as a leader is to define the results and make the most out of them. You don’t micro-manage them. You don’t hire the best oboe player and tell him how to play the oboe. You do tell him what you want and you do shape the process. I bet most people haven’t even thought about a CMO, that it hasn’t even entered their consciousness. To have the best oboe player who knows how to play the oboe, well, they need the music. Maybe it’s not music you wrote. Maybe there is a sketch or some improvisatory piece. It might be jazz. But we have a very rigid structure. We have a very clear outcome, and we know where we are going. It’s my job as a leader. It’s pool leadership; it’s bringing the best out of all of these distinct players. Here is the barrier. “I can’t afford that” is going to be the number one objection. How do you respond to a leader’s comment of, “That sounds great, but I can’t afford that”?
 Gaydon: It’s interesting that you would say that because people call me a marketing scientist, and I get accused of being a mathematician because so much of what I do is the mathematics behind the customer acquisition system. In your world, it might be a client or a donor. It doesn’t matter what the nomenclature is, but you need to know the mathematics of your business. If we think of nonprofits in a nonprofit sort of way, they don’t really thrive. If we think of them as businesses, they can thrive. Business economics, venture capitalists call it unit economics, and for this purpose, I would call it acquisition economics. You need to know your acquisition economics. You need to know what a donor or a customer is worth to your business. When you know that number, you can reverse engineer yourself. To say you can’t afford it is saying I got a blindfold on and don’t know mathematics well enough to know what I can spend to acquire more donors and customers, etc. You have to take the blindfold off, expose yourself to the mathematics, and understand that this is a business and it is based on math and it’s really simple. Dollars in, dollars out. In the marketing world, it’s customers in, acquisition cost out. In other words, how much am I willing to pay to get a customer knowing how much they are going to pay me to be a customer? The multiple between what they are worth to you and what you are willing to pay to get them is where the magic is. That is where the private equity firms focus their energy. That is what venture capitalists want to know before they acquire a big company. In your world, it’s probably not any different. You may just have not audited before. But you have an acquisition cost right now. You have a marketing budget right now. You have a CMO right now. You may just not have defined it that way.
 Hugh: The social entrepreneurs are the COE, the Chief of Everything. Part of that is their problem. They are trying to be experts in everything, and they are trying to pinch pennies. I am a recovering Scottish Presbyterian. I am just as guilty as anybody. We know how to bend a penny. But there is a practical side to this when we need to find really good people and get out of the way. The reason we don’t have money to do that is because our marketing sucks. The client acquisition of the church or the synagogue would be members or community foundations. We want to have members. Those members are our local charities. They are members in mission. They are members in servant leaders in the community. I abolished the word “volunteer” when I worked with organizations like that because it is a different dumbing-down mindset. We are leaders in action.
 Reframing the thinking, even though we are a nonprofit—like I said, it is not a philosophy, it is a tax clarification—it is a tax-exempt charity, it is a social benefit organization. We don’t treat our systems as important as our mission is. Our mission has got to make a huge difference. We dumb down on the money part. With charities, we want to save the whales; we don’t care about money. Wait a minute. You are going to build a car, but you haven’t learned to drive it, and you haven’t put gas in it. How is it going to go anywhere? We need to be good stewards on all the resources, including the cash flow. We can’t achieve our mission without the fuel in the car, which is your cash flow. Churches tend to backpedal on that. Sales is evangelism in the church.
 I told you I grew up as a Scottish Presbyterian. The old joke is when you cross a Presbyterian with a Jehovah’s Witness, what you get is someone who knocks on the door with nothing to say. Most of us don’t even knock on the door. I’m not cutting out any particular sect. But there is a pattern of knocking on the door and marketing your message, which is what they do in that denomination. But we don’t do that very well. We are closed in on this enclave. We are not a cloister or a monastery.
 Rethinking how we do church and charities and enterprise as a small business owner is where I live. This series of recordings is about leadership paradigms. What you have just uncovered is a huge paradigm. It’s taking it off my plate, finding someone competent, and working with them to let them do what we need to have done. Part of it is getting out of the way, and the other part of this is how to select a good marketing person. Part of my work is working with leaders selecting the right team, whether they are board members, staff, or people like you and me who provide goods and services for this organization.
 If somebody is selecting a marketing expert, even for a CMO or higher, what are the questions they should ask?
 Gaydon: The question I always ask: Who is in charge of growing the business? In a smaller organization, that is usually easy to answer, whomever that is. May I make two comments before I get to your question?
 Hugh: Absolutely.
 Gaydon: The question you have to ask yourself is this: Do you actually have a growth goal for the organization? Is that even the topic of conversation? Are we trying to grow membership at our church? That is an example. If that is the case, this is the next question you ask yourself: What would it mean if I were to hit that target? I don’t know what that target is. That is on your plate. Did I hit that target last year? If I did, that’s great. How much did you hope it would have grown last year? My guess is if I grew last year, it probably didn’t grow as much as you wanted it to. If it didn’t grow last year, are you willing to do anything to solve the problem? If you’re not willing to do anything to solve that problem, there isn’t really a lot of what we are talking about that it is going to be able to solve.
 So I’m going to say anecdotally that you want to grow membership 10%. For those of you who are listening carefully, you may want to think, “Man, what would it mean for me to grow membership by 10% this year? What would it mean for me to grow membership 10% this month?” I grow businesses up to 235% a year. I know what it means to grow the business over 10% per month. It’s a big deal. You have to ask yourself whether that is actually a goal for you, a realistic target for you, and if you actually want to do it. But it does cost some money. The investment will be worth it.
 Hugh: Let me comment on your comment before you answer the question. May I?
 Gaydon: Please.
 Hugh: If somebody is going through my strategy process, somebody is going to go through my goals. We tend to run around and do a lot of stuff as entrepreneurs. We implement tactics in the absence of an overall strategy, which is what we do with marketing as well. We try this and try this and try this, and it didn’t work. I say to people, “I tried to exercise one day last year and it didn’t work, so I stopped.” There is this limited experiment that is also we are doing the tactic piece. What you are talking about is a very important leadership paradigm. Have a plan.
 Sorry, that is a commercial for me. If you do your strategy, you will know what your end goals are. That is a great question. I wanted to affirm that question. Let me stop interrupting you.
 Gaydon: I love it. I’ll be honest. If you don’t have a growth goal, or if growth is not at the top of your priority list, then they don’t need me. They probably need you, but they don’t need me. I’m the growth guy. I’m the profitable growth guy.
 If you do want growth, there is so much data that I have in doing this for 12 years in a case study environment as a marketing scientist figuring out all the reasons why it didn’t work. I know why it didn’t work, Hugh. That’s the punchline. They could hand me that case study and say, “This is what I did. Tell me why it didn’t work.” Within two minutes, I will know why it didn’t work.
 A little golden nugget is if you have been in this space long enough, 90% of marketing activities that fail fail not because of the medium or the tactic of choice. What most people think is, “I tried radio. It didn’t work. Radio must not work for me, my business, my industry, my geographics, whatever.” The reality is, the magic is never in the medium; it’s always in the message. If you are writing something down, write that down: The magic is never in the medium; the magic is in the message. The message is an overly simplified way to say the magic is in your entire marketing infrastructure that leads to the message the person hears. I’m not saying go out and rewrite a message a million times. I’m saying the message is born of your audience itself. If you don’t target the audience and segment it well enough, that is your first mistake that will come out in the message.
 Another thing is your drivers. What is your audience motivated by? What are their problems? What keeps them up at night staring at the ceiling wondering how they are going to solve this? What are their hot buttons? Knowing the audience, their desires, motivations, drivers, etc., really leaves you to say, “Okay, if I understand that audience, let’s keep looking externally and figure out if there is anything about the industry, its competition, its solution alternatives, and other things at play that might affect my ability to speak to them on that level and get them to want to join me in my mission, my quest, and my social entrepreneurship in the purpose of my company.” There might be competitors at bay who can beat you on price and other things. You have to look at those.
 Once you define that audience, those industry drivers, those competitive drivers, you start to look internally. Who are we? How are we going to prove our viability to this particular audience? How are we going to position ourselves to that audience? Are we the Lexus in the market? Are we the Toyota in the market? Are we the Scion in the market? Are we the Smartcar in the market? Are we the Tesla in the market? Who are we? If it’s a church and about membership, it’s still relevant. Everybody is positioned. You are positioned relative to the competitors and the space, and you are positioned in relation to the things that differentiate you that you can message to.
 When you look at audience and drivers and competition and how that leads to positioning and differentiation, eventually, if you go through the whole process, that frankly I have codified, you get to the message. Nine times out of ten, the marketing activity fails because of that message. It’s not because of the person who you hired to write the message is incompetent as a writer. It’s usually because you are not competent as a strategist.
 Hugh: I love it. Of course I think you are brilliant. That’s great. Say this again. It was profound.
 Gaydon: The reality is, the magic is in the message, not in the medium. The message is failing not because the writer who wrote it is incompetent, but because the strategist who was behind it is incompetent.
 Hugh: It would occur to me that if you got 700-something clients in the recession and you grew your business exponentially in the recession, that you understand marketing. You understand how this client acquisition thing works. Any of us in any of these institutions need critical mass to do what we are doing, and we need to continually grow it because we are growing our vision, which is usually way bigger than we can achieve. We are visionaries. Several people who are entrepreneurs say, “Do all of you suffer from insanity?” I say, “Heck no, we enjoy it.” It’s a way of life. You are one of us, so I just put us in the same bucket. We are individuals; however, the very things that drive us are also the thorns in our side. Our assets are our liabilities. We don’t want to participate in this corporate structure; however, we need the discipline of working within structure in order to let the full creativity of our vision materialize. We tend to poo-poo the discipline and system parts of it because we want the freedom of our entrepreneur.
 As a musician, I know this. Once we got the music, once we have rehearsed it, once we have done all the hard work, then we are free to be creative. There is a pathway to creating the strategy, which you so eloquently articulated. There is a discipline part of this. As you said earlier, there is work in this. There is no easy button. I tell people that there is no easy button in the work I do, but there is an easier button. When people try to do it themselves, it takes way longer and we make it way harder and they spend a whole lot of money, especially money they don’t have, and they don’t have time, so they have to go redo stuff.
 This is all great stuff. The question was: If somebody is going to hire a marketing specialist internally or externally to advise a plan to help them take their brand to the market, what are the questions they should ask?
 Gaydon: That’s a hard question to answer because of the levels that we are talking about it on. In the context of you are the CMO/CRO, the person listening to this, the first question you need to ask…
 Hugh: The person listening is going to be the top leader in the organization, and they are going to be bringing in a marketing person. How do they qualify that person, whether it is internal, external, or using a service like yours? How do you know it’s going to be the right fit for your organization? We are talking about smaller organizations here.
 Gaydon: I’m making the assumption, Hugh, that these are small enough organizations that we are talking about here that they are not going to hire that CMO. Correct me if I’m wrong. They are wearing the hat. Anecdotally, I have to help them wear that responsibility or hat well. I’m going to take the next five minutes to figure out how to do that better. They are not going to shell out the four, six, or eight thousand dollars a month to bring in the right marketing ninja, right? I hate to say ninja because samurais are probably more tough than ninjas, right?
 Hugh: I think the majority of people fit the category you’ve described. If you educate them on that piece, it would lead them to enough revenue to hire the person you’ve described.
 Gaydon: Exactly. The cadence of this usually looks like you are wearing the CMO hat because you haven’t given it to anyone else yet. Once you grow the company to a certain point, you can, which is brilliant because you really want to be the leader, and you probably don’t want to wear the CMO hat long-term.
 Under the guise of you are wearing the hat, and you are not about to give it to anyone else soon, the first question you need to ask yourself is: Do I know how to write a strategy? I codified a process by which you just use an iPad and peg-leg your way in. I will stop using pirate analogies. You really don’t need to be a samurai. I don’t mean this to be a commercial at all. If you ask yourself how do I write a marketing plan, and you don’t have a step-by-step process, you will write a bad one. That is what this comes down to. It is just too complicated of a subject. Do you feel comfortable writing an enterprise-level strategy to grow a business if you don’t have any training on the subject? That sounds ludicrous. That would be like me trying to train a dog. I know nothing about pets and animals. I chase mountain lions for fun in the back country in the hopes they will eat me. That is my preferred way to die; I want to get eaten by a mountain lion. The problem is, I can’t find one, dang it. The point is: If you are wearing that hat, you have to know how to write a strategy.
 If you wrote a strategy that works, that is really engineered for profitable growth, that you are confident and clear on, now the next question you ask is really important. Now you want to say who can be in the weeds on this thing? Who can manage this strategy on a day-to-day perspective in terms of all the deliverables? You don’t necessarily need to hire a full-time person to do that, but let’s call that person the marketing manager.
 The first question I would ask is: Do you have the ability to hire a full-time or part-time marketing manager to do all the dirty work so that you can continue to be the leader, and you can put on your CMO hat for just 30 minutes a week? If you can do that, here is what I recommend you do in terms of asking questions around hiring a marketing manager.
 You basically put up a job description for an executive assistant. Sounds counter-intuitive. If you ask for a marketing person, here is what you are going to get. You are going to get a yellow personality that is a little bit ADD, super creative, will have a ton of ideas and no follow-through. That’s what you want. Don’t post a job anywhere that says “Hiring marketing…” People will hear that. What you want to do is post a job that says to the effect of, “Looking for an executive assistant,” and then say, “Skills need to include operational efficiencies, doing things on budget, doing things on time, not letting things fall through the cracks.” Then what you do is as you interview the executive assistants, you will find one or two that has a little bit of marketing experience. That is your golden goose. That person will say, “I’m really good at operational stuff, making sure nothing falls through the cracks. But actually I like marketing.” It’s your perfect hire. If you don’t want to do all that, we can talk later, and we can talk on another podcast where I can point them to part-time marketing managers who are certified marketing managers that you don’t have to train or look for or hire. You can just turnkey, boom. A couple grand a month, and they are in your organization helping you out. Most of them work remotely. The point is you can outsource that function. You are really just hiring a 1099 person. That is the real possibility.
 The next level underneath this marketing manager who gets everything done is this specialist, the tactician, the copywriter, the designer, the programmer, the person who has that subject matter expertise that is so specific that you need to bring them in to do that specific job. A really common thing is someone to administer the CRM. Let’s say we are using InfusionSoft or something like that. InfusionSoft is really complicated. You probably should not administer it yourself. Maybe your marketing manager will have those skills, but probably not. So it might make sense to find somebody who has very specific skills administering InfusionSoft that you can pay an hourly rate to whenever you need them.
 The same goes for your graphic designers, your logo people, your website people, your hosting people, your programming people, a data scientist, YouTube experts, LinkedIn experts, anything.
 What I am teaching you to do here is outsource effectively while insourcing effectively. What all your insourcing is is the responsibility you already have. It’s that responsibility you haven’t given anyone else yet. While not changing the scenario, you are changing the paradigm with which you look at it. But you can insource without adding a bunch of costs by just assuming the responsibility to write the strategy. You can definitely insource a marketing manager or hire a 1099. You can outsource effectively by finding specialists.
 What people do, Hugh, and I know you have seen this, is they get opportunistic. Think of a continuum. On one end is opportunist, and on the other end is strategist. The opposite of a strategist is an opportunist; the opposite of an opportunist is a strategist. The number one plague in small business is we get opportunistic. I know that resonates with you because you teach leadership. What an opportunist does outside of marketing is they say, “We need to grow. Let’s go find someone to do that.” They hire an agency and turn over the car keys, the wallet, the house, and everything and say, “Run it for me.” It doesn’t work. I can prove to you that it doesn’t work.
 More than that, some of them will say, “I don’t know if that’s the right idea. We should hire a CMO.” Then they make the decision of thinking the CMO is some deity of marketing, and they can do the strategy, manage the execution, do the execution, do the reporting, report to themselves, and be accountable all at the same time. How opportunistic does that sound? Yet people do it all the time. I ask people, “Who is running point on marketing?” “Our CMO.” “What does he do?” “Everything.” “Wait, hold on, everything?” Then I interview the CMO, and the CMO says, “Gee, the reason why I don’t dare tell this to the CEO, and the reason I can’t do my job, is because I am writing copy, and I am doing design, and I am managing vendors, and I am looking for proposals, and I am managing our events, and I am writing the strategy, and I am editing the strategy, and I am doing the reports.” All you did by hiring that CMO is duplicating your problem of having too many hats on someone else.
 Hugh: Oh that is so spot-on. I talk to people every day that that fits. You have come back to a lot of the themes without even knowing that I teach. My whole paradigm is to reframe leadership as a pathway to profit. This series is converting a passion to profit. You have just tagged a lot of the major leadership decisions that lead organizations to generate recurrable income. Managing that becomes profit. Nonprofits need profit. It’s not for profit; we don’t distribute it individually. But we have to be in the black to achieve our vision and mission.
 I think we have given people a lot to chew on today. I think we can probably talk for hours on these topics. How do people find you and your company?
 Gaydon: I’m not terribly hard to find. My company is called Savavo. G Leavitt or Gaydon Leavitt. If they are really looking for something to take from here forward, I recommend we put up a freebie for your audience to go to marketingsequence.com/ballou. What I have there is a five-part video training course that essentially gives you the basics of how to start to formulate the strategy. If you go there, you will see the videos that will walk you through sequentially, and I think it will help your audience go on the right trajectory.
 Hugh: That’s generous. Marketingsequence.com/ballou. G, you have demonstrated a much higher level of competency than other people I have spoken with. I think you hit a sore spot for 4-12 million companies that are stuck. I find that one very good leadership trait is making a decision to get out of your comfort zone and do something different with different results. Your marketing sucks. You have heard Jeff Magee that says, “SUC is halfway to success.” We don’t get there because we suck. We don’t get there because we are not getting out of our comfort zone and making intelligent leadership decisions that are going to lead us to that profit. That is a generous offer.
 As we pull this to a close, do you have a parting thought for the audience to think about?
 Gaydon: I’m glad you asked that because I think people tend to get hung up if they don’t feel comfortable building a strategy or even spending a dollar to build a strategy. I think the best thing I could give them is the who we are platform. I’ll illustrate this for you right now. This is a tool you can use to immediately improve your pitch, your messaging, and your ability to get a donor, a patient, or a customer immediately using a challenge you are already using. So I will give you mine in hopes you can model mine and create your own. I will give you the four or five steps that are part of this model.
 It goes something like this: I believe marketing is the reason businesses fail and the reason they succeed. I also believe it is the only way they will grow properly. At the rate at which a company or organization is growing is directly related to the marketing acumen, knowledge, or skills and the infrastructure that organization has. I also believe that marketing is a science, not an art, not a lottery, not a crapshoot. You are not at the casino. It’s a process. If you know the process, you could have success with it. Do not think of it as a science. I believe it as a process.
 Because I believe all of these things, my mission and purpose as an organization, as an entrepreneur, as someone who is trying to provide value to the world, is to turn marketing into a science and into a predictable, followable, learnable, masterable process for people. We believe we are doing that.
 The benefit to that process is clarity, confidence, and ultimately return on investment. It creates ROI. It creates bigger companies, faster companies, and better companies. The question that I have for you is: How clear are you about how to turn your marketing into predictable, profitable process?
 Hugh: Gaydon Leavitt, very well-spoken. Thank you for sharing your intellectual property with my listeners today. Hope you have a great day. I look forward to the next conversation.
 Gaydon: Thank you so much.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2016 22:25:02 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8763b1da-b329-11eb-9f0f-d31f33c9f996/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Hugh: Hey, this is Hugh Ballou. My guest today is Gaydon Leavitt. His friends call him G. G, I hope I can call you that. I am your friend, right? Gaydon: Absolutely. Hugh: I met G recently, and I was just blown away by the level of his...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Hugh: Hey, this is Hugh Ballou. My guest today is Gaydon Leavitt. His friends call him G. G, I hope I can call you that. I am your friend, right?
 Gaydon: Absolutely.
 Hugh: I met G recently, and I was just blown away by the level of his expertise in marketing and the level of the programs he has to offer those of us who are social entrepreneurs. We are working in a vacuum sometimes, and we think everybody ought to clamor to our door. But we really have not developed a marketing strategy to attract those people to the value that we have. G, welcome today.
 Gaydon: Thank you for having me.
 Hugh: We have a very dedicated group of social entrepreneurs who are changing the world. We don’t have a corporate job by choice because we have a value proposition that is just awesome. But we are stuck. Tell us a little more about your background. Why is it that you are qualified to talk to us about marketing? I know, but give us a little snapshot for people that are listening today.
 Gaydon: Marketing is the only thing I have ever done. There’s that. I worked at Ford doing the digital agency movement. This was in 2004-2006; this was before social media if you can imagine. At that time, I was really in charge of building an Internet department, getting CRM up and running. That was back before CRM was common. Everyone knows what a CRM is these days usually.
 Hugh: Tell us what that stands for.
 Gaydon: Customer Relationship Management software.
 Hugh: Is that Ford Motor Company?
 Gaydon: Yeah. This was at a regional group of dealerships. I was working for them and basically getting infrastructure in place. The punchline is that I did that for long enough—CRM, website, search engines, all that stuff. I was at the forefront of that. Once I got it set up for them, I knew that everyone else needed it. I started a digital agency. Back then, it wasn’t called a digital agency, but now it is. These days, digital agencies are really commonplace. A lot of companies do websites, search engine optimization, and social media. I was at the forefront of all that. Most people who know my background know that the real driver for what I’m doing is always being on the bleeding edge of the market, the innovation side of the market. When it comes to marketing, I am always looking for where it’s going and try to steal ahead.
 Hugh: Let me get this straight. You do things that work in real life. This is not just theory?
 Gaydon: Not at all. To give you an idea, I started my company January 1, 2007. It was actually January 2 because the city office wasn’t open January 1. The point is, 2007 was not the greatest year to start a business, it turns out. 2008 rolled in, the recession took its toll, but I grew our company 235% four years in a row. We did 700 client engagements, well over a million dollars. We were having a ball. We were having a good time. What happens was through the middle of a recession and growth, I became one of the top people in my field in the West, as it were, certainly in our state, which is the marketing capital of the universe.
 In 2012, I woke up. After having done strategy and digital services for 700 customers, I had really curated a case study. The 700-business case study. I knew what was going on because I was knee-deep in strategic marketing relationships with these 700 businesses. What I did was I compiled the data as it were. I put together the things that I knew were a problem. I knew people were missing. I did what I called root-cause analysis. This goes back to theory of constraints and other things I studied. I did a root-cause analysis to figure out what are the real problems in the SBM or small entrepreneurship space. What are they doing wrong? Who are they hiring? Why are they hiring them? Why are the engagements working? Why are they not working? What happened in 2012 was I wrote a plan to solve those problems. Between then and now, I have stopped those digital services and really dedicated myself to solving the problems I have found.
 Hugh: I do a one-day leadership empowerment symposium in one city every month. I am coming to your neighborhood, but I haven’t put it on the schedule yet. But I find there are common things: leader burnout. They are doing way too much. They don’t even have time to think about marketing. Their board is underfunctioning, their staff is not functioning at the level it should, and they are not making the revenue that they need to achieve their vision. You have done this real-life work, which matches with what I’m seeing. We are talking to the leaders of these movements. These people have great ideas. What is the leadership decision? Why shouldn’t someone just hire someone to do marketing and then forget about it? What do leaders need to know about marketing in order to make an intelligent decision about getting someone like you engaged for their enterprise?
 Gaydon: The first thing they need to know is that hiring a marketing agency and then turning your back—in other words, outsourcing and allocating your responsibility to grow your organization—doesn’t work. Nine times out of ten, it just does not work. The phrase we like to use is: You cannot outsource what you have given yourself the responsibility to do.
 The first question you need to ask is: Who is wearing the CRO or the CMO hat? CRO is Chief Revenue Officer. CMO is Chief Marketing Officer. The point is, somebody has that hat on right this second. Who has that hat? What I am saying in no uncertain terms is if you give that hat to someone who does not work at your company or is dedicated to that function and you give it to an outsource provider… I am not saying you can’t bring in a part-time CMO or CRO that serves that purpose that is technically a 1099. That’s fine; that can work. To hand it to an agency and think they will run the growth of your company the way you want it to is fallacious at best. So who wears the CRO hat?
 If that person is defined, the next question is: Do they have the skills to play the role? I like to follow that up with a little bit of philosophy. At the end of the day, Peter Truckers’ quote rings in my ears, and it should ring in everyone’s ears who is listening to this call. “The business enterprise has two and only two basic functions: marketing and innovation. All the rest are costs.” The spirit of what he is trying to say is the purpose of the enterprise is to gain a customer. Marketing’s job is to gain a customer. I use customer loosely. We are talking customer, client, patient, donor, whatever it means. I’ll use customer loosely. The point is that is the purpose of your enterprise. If you have a social enterprise and the purpose of it is not to make a profit, that’s fine. This isn’t capitalism necessarily for you. But you will never change the world with your social entrepreneurship if you can’t make money. You can’t accomplish your mission without the cash, and you can’t get the cash without the marketing.
 We say marketing in academic terms. Marketing is the process by which we take what we have to the market. It’s not advertising, it’s not PR, and it’s not sales. It’s the holism of all of that. How are you going to get what you have to the audience you want to have it? The science of that is really the spirit of what I do. It’s your responsibility unless you have given it to somebody else. In that case, we are talking to that person. But the conversation needs to have a place where the buck stops. Somebody is wearing the hat. That’s where I start.
 Hugh: You have distinguished a number of different things. For 30 years, I have worked with charities doing my vision of strategic planning, which I call a solution map. Where do you want to be, and how are you going to get there? A traditional component is the same components for normal companies, but it is modified for charities. Part of it is realizing that nonprofit is a tax classification, not a philosophy. The other one is to build into this marketing strategy, which is not an area of my expertise. That is part of why we are talking today. I do have other collaborators in experts and sales and PR. People tend to confuse all of those things. You have distinguished what those are.
 You highlighted a really important leadership paradigm. It’s the piece of delegation. People who are leaders think they know about delegation. Here, do this and they forget it. That’s not delegation. There is a mentoring piece that goes with that. There is a championing piece. There is an accountability installation. There is a follow-up piece, which is way different than micro-managing. Whether you are hiring someone internally or externally, I would like to add that I agree with all of that. We still as leaders want to define the outcomes, and then we work with whomever it is for them to tell us what the metrics are and the tactics we are going to use to get there. We as a leader still nurture and approve that. If we are not engaged at any level as a leader, that is a problem. The trick is not to overfunction and to find someone gifted and to be engaged enough so that we can tweak it. Who knows more about our vision than us? Who understands the outcomes more than us? We as leaders are not clear on the outcomes, and we are not clear on how to delegate or manage a process. How do you feel about that?
 Gaydon: I totally agree. From the context of marketing, I see the problems that you are talking about but from the marketing angle. That’s the lens that I view things from because that is my subject matter of expertise. Let me make this real tactical for you, Hugh.
 Once we define who that CRO/CMO is, and for those of you who are listening, you just felt a tremendous responsibility realizing that that hat is on your head. If that is the case, I want to relieve you because that is the first step: realizing that it is your responsibility. Once you know that, the good news is that the case study I was talking about, with 700 businesses, here is what we found. The CRO/CMO position should be a strategic one. Customer acquisition, donor acquisition, whatever you want to call it, marketing departments function best when there is a strategic person whose responsibility is strategy and high-level decision making. When there is someone who is not charge of strategy and is operational, they are in the weeds. The good news is if you are wearing the CMO hat today, you can do that responsibility with as little as 20-30 minutes a week.
 Hugh:  That’s awesome.
 Gaydon: I have engineered a system for that. I am not saying it’s easy. It took me a long time to build something. But the punchline is that you don’t need to be overwhelmed by the responsibility. You just need to take it seriously. I have built what some people call the CMO’s toolkit to enable that person who is playing the CMO role part-time as it were because they are wearing ten other hats to do that job well. The mistake people make in my world, and I don’t know if it adapts itself to the other areas that you focus on, is they think of the CMO as the end-all be-all. They don’t think of them as the strategic outlet. They think of them as strategy, execution, the kitchen sink. The CMO should not be in the weeds communicating with every single vendor, trying to figure out all the details, editing the site, writing all the copy. That is not what CMOs should be doing. The mistake people make is they think they need marketing, so they think they can hire a CMO. Maybe I can hire a marketing manager. That person inherently has skills. Marketing is too broad to give it to someone and expect them to do all of it. You have to get more intelligent about that hire, that function. Whether you are hiring or not is really irrelevant. The function of that role is really what we are talking about. Strategy versus implementation or management, those are two different things.
 When I am looking for a marketing manager, someone to work under a CMO, I look for an ops person, someone who is operationally savvy. This is someone who never lets anything fall through the cracks. They are super OCD. They never show up late. You know the type, right? They are not the person who you peg as a marketing person. They are more of an executive assistant who happens to understand the marketing strategy well enough to take it to execution. Those are the best marketing managers.
 The punchline is if you have one of those people, and it was your responsibility to be the CMO, all you have to do is a 30-minute-a-week meeting with a marketing manager who knows how to run marketing, who knows how to do all the tactics. I don’t mean tactics from the perspective of a marketing manager as a copywriter or a programmer or a designer. Those are functions you need to hire out. Outsource those effectively to the right programmer, to the right price. Live with the consequence. Have the marketing manager do all of that. There is a system. It’s almost like you were getting into human capital hierarchy. That is probably pretty similar to what you are talking about.
 Hugh: It is. I spent 40 years as a musical conductor, and the image on the podcast is me in my tails. It’s Orchestrating Success. What you just defined is orchestrating success. I would hire the best players. I hired members of the Atlanta Symphony when I was in Atlanta who were very skilled. They were also union members. Downbeats when you start, and two hours later, you get paid for a two-hour gig, and they are either leaving or you are paying overtime. My job as a leader is to define the results and make the most out of them. You don’t micro-manage them. You don’t hire the best oboe player and tell him how to play the oboe. You do tell him what you want and you do shape the process. I bet most people haven’t even thought about a CMO, that it hasn’t even entered their consciousness. To have the best oboe player who knows how to play the oboe, well, they need the music. Maybe it’s not music you wrote. Maybe there is a sketch or some improvisatory piece. It might be jazz. But we have a very rigid structure. We have a very clear outcome, and we know where we are going. It’s my job as a leader. It’s pool leadership; it’s bringing the best out of all of these distinct players. Here is the barrier. “I can’t afford that” is going to be the number one objection. How do you respond to a leader’s comment of, “That sounds great, but I can’t afford that”?
 Gaydon: It’s interesting that you would say that because people call me a marketing scientist, and I get accused of being a mathematician because so much of what I do is the mathematics behind the customer acquisition system. In your world, it might be a client or a donor. It doesn’t matter what the nomenclature is, but you need to know the mathematics of your business. If we think of nonprofits in a nonprofit sort of way, they don’t really thrive. If we think of them as businesses, they can thrive. Business economics, venture capitalists call it unit economics, and for this purpose, I would call it acquisition economics. You need to know your acquisition economics. You need to know what a donor or a customer is worth to your business. When you know that number, you can reverse engineer yourself. To say you can’t afford it is saying I got a blindfold on and don’t know mathematics well enough to know what I can spend to acquire more donors and customers, etc. You have to take the blindfold off, expose yourself to the mathematics, and understand that this is a business and it is based on math and it’s really simple. Dollars in, dollars out. In the marketing world, it’s customers in, acquisition cost out. In other words, how much am I willing to pay to get a customer knowing how much they are going to pay me to be a customer? The multiple between what they are worth to you and what you are willing to pay to get them is where the magic is. That is where the private equity firms focus their energy. That is what venture capitalists want to know before they acquire a big company. In your world, it’s probably not any different. You may just have not audited before. But you have an acquisition cost right now. You have a marketing budget right now. You have a CMO right now. You may just not have defined it that way.
 Hugh: The social entrepreneurs are the COE, the Chief of Everything. Part of that is their problem. They are trying to be experts in everything, and they are trying to pinch pennies. I am a recovering Scottish Presbyterian. I am just as guilty as anybody. We know how to bend a penny. But there is a practical side to this when we need to find really good people and get out of the way. The reason we don’t have money to do that is because our marketing sucks. The client acquisition of the church or the synagogue would be members or community foundations. We want to have members. Those members are our local charities. They are members in mission. They are members in servant leaders in the community. I abolished the word “volunteer” when I worked with organizations like that because it is a different dumbing-down mindset. We are leaders in action.
 Reframing the thinking, even though we are a nonprofit—like I said, it is not a philosophy, it is a tax clarification—it is a tax-exempt charity, it is a social benefit organization. We don’t treat our systems as important as our mission is. Our mission has got to make a huge difference. We dumb down on the money part. With charities, we want to save the whales; we don’t care about money. Wait a minute. You are going to build a car, but you haven’t learned to drive it, and you haven’t put gas in it. How is it going to go anywhere? We need to be good stewards on all the resources, including the cash flow. We can’t achieve our mission without the fuel in the car, which is your cash flow. Churches tend to backpedal on that. Sales is evangelism in the church.
 I told you I grew up as a Scottish Presbyterian. The old joke is when you cross a Presbyterian with a Jehovah’s Witness, what you get is someone who knocks on the door with nothing to say. Most of us don’t even knock on the door. I’m not cutting out any particular sect. But there is a pattern of knocking on the door and marketing your message, which is what they do in that denomination. But we don’t do that very well. We are closed in on this enclave. We are not a cloister or a monastery.
 Rethinking how we do church and charities and enterprise as a small business owner is where I live. This series of recordings is about leadership paradigms. What you have just uncovered is a huge paradigm. It’s taking it off my plate, finding someone competent, and working with them to let them do what we need to have done. Part of it is getting out of the way, and the other part of this is how to select a good marketing person. Part of my work is working with leaders selecting the right team, whether they are board members, staff, or people like you and me who provide goods and services for this organization.
 If somebody is selecting a marketing expert, even for a CMO or higher, what are the questions they should ask?
 Gaydon: The question I always ask: Who is in charge of growing the business? In a smaller organization, that is usually easy to answer, whomever that is. May I make two comments before I get to your question?
 Hugh: Absolutely.
 Gaydon: The question you have to ask yourself is this: Do you actually have a growth goal for the organization? Is that even the topic of conversation? Are we trying to grow membership at our church? That is an example. If that is the case, this is the next question you ask yourself: What would it mean if I were to hit that target? I don’t know what that target is. That is on your plate. Did I hit that target last year? If I did, that’s great. How much did you hope it would have grown last year? My guess is if I grew last year, it probably didn’t grow as much as you wanted it to. If it didn’t grow last year, are you willing to do anything to solve the problem? If you’re not willing to do anything to solve that problem, there isn’t really a lot of what we are talking about that it is going to be able to solve.
 So I’m going to say anecdotally that you want to grow membership 10%. For those of you who are listening carefully, you may want to think, “Man, what would it mean for me to grow membership by 10% this year? What would it mean for me to grow membership 10% this month?” I grow businesses up to 235% a year. I know what it means to grow the business over 10% per month. It’s a big deal. You have to ask yourself whether that is actually a goal for you, a realistic target for you, and if you actually want to do it. But it does cost some money. The investment will be worth it.
 Hugh: Let me comment on your comment before you answer the question. May I?
 Gaydon: Please.
 Hugh: If somebody is going through my strategy process, somebody is going to go through my goals. We tend to run around and do a lot of stuff as entrepreneurs. We implement tactics in the absence of an overall strategy, which is what we do with marketing as well. We try this and try this and try this, and it didn’t work. I say to people, “I tried to exercise one day last year and it didn’t work, so I stopped.” There is this limited experiment that is also we are doing the tactic piece. What you are talking about is a very important leadership paradigm. Have a plan.
 Sorry, that is a commercial for me. If you do your strategy, you will know what your end goals are. That is a great question. I wanted to affirm that question. Let me stop interrupting you.
 Gaydon: I love it. I’ll be honest. If you don’t have a growth goal, or if growth is not at the top of your priority list, then they don’t need me. They probably need you, but they don’t need me. I’m the growth guy. I’m the profitable growth guy.
 If you do want growth, there is so much data that I have in doing this for 12 years in a case study environment as a marketing scientist figuring out all the reasons why it didn’t work. I know why it didn’t work, Hugh. That’s the punchline. They could hand me that case study and say, “This is what I did. Tell me why it didn’t work.” Within two minutes, I will know why it didn’t work.
 A little golden nugget is if you have been in this space long enough, 90% of marketing activities that fail fail not because of the medium or the tactic of choice. What most people think is, “I tried radio. It didn’t work. Radio must not work for me, my business, my industry, my geographics, whatever.” The reality is, the magic is never in the medium; it’s always in the message. If you are writing something down, write that down: The magic is never in the medium; the magic is in the message. The message is an overly simplified way to say the magic is in your entire marketing infrastructure that leads to the message the person hears. I’m not saying go out and rewrite a message a million times. I’m saying the message is born of your audience itself. If you don’t target the audience and segment it well enough, that is your first mistake that will come out in the message.
 Another thing is your drivers. What is your audience motivated by? What are their problems? What keeps them up at night staring at the ceiling wondering how they are going to solve this? What are their hot buttons? Knowing the audience, their desires, motivations, drivers, etc., really leaves you to say, “Okay, if I understand that audience, let’s keep looking externally and figure out if there is anything about the industry, its competition, its solution alternatives, and other things at play that might affect my ability to speak to them on that level and get them to want to join me in my mission, my quest, and my social entrepreneurship in the purpose of my company.” There might be competitors at bay who can beat you on price and other things. You have to look at those.
 Once you define that audience, those industry drivers, those competitive drivers, you start to look internally. Who are we? How are we going to prove our viability to this particular audience? How are we going to position ourselves to that audience? Are we the Lexus in the market? Are we the Toyota in the market? Are we the Scion in the market? Are we the Smartcar in the market? Are we the Tesla in the market? Who are we? If it’s a church and about membership, it’s still relevant. Everybody is positioned. You are positioned relative to the competitors and the space, and you are positioned in relation to the things that differentiate you that you can message to.
 When you look at audience and drivers and competition and how that leads to positioning and differentiation, eventually, if you go through the whole process, that frankly I have codified, you get to the message. Nine times out of ten, the marketing activity fails because of that message. It’s not because of the person who you hired to write the message is incompetent as a writer. It’s usually because you are not competent as a strategist.
 Hugh: I love it. Of course I think you are brilliant. That’s great. Say this again. It was profound.
 Gaydon: The reality is, the magic is in the message, not in the medium. The message is failing not because the writer who wrote it is incompetent, but because the strategist who was behind it is incompetent.
 Hugh: It would occur to me that if you got 700-something clients in the recession and you grew your business exponentially in the recession, that you understand marketing. You understand how this client acquisition thing works. Any of us in any of these institutions need critical mass to do what we are doing, and we need to continually grow it because we are growing our vision, which is usually way bigger than we can achieve. We are visionaries. Several people who are entrepreneurs say, “Do all of you suffer from insanity?” I say, “Heck no, we enjoy it.” It’s a way of life. You are one of us, so I just put us in the same bucket. We are individuals; however, the very things that drive us are also the thorns in our side. Our assets are our liabilities. We don’t want to participate in this corporate structure; however, we need the discipline of working within structure in order to let the full creativity of our vision materialize. We tend to poo-poo the discipline and system parts of it because we want the freedom of our entrepreneur.
 As a musician, I know this. Once we got the music, once we have rehearsed it, once we have done all the hard work, then we are free to be creative. There is a pathway to creating the strategy, which you so eloquently articulated. There is a discipline part of this. As you said earlier, there is work in this. There is no easy button. I tell people that there is no easy button in the work I do, but there is an easier button. When people try to do it themselves, it takes way longer and we make it way harder and they spend a whole lot of money, especially money they don’t have, and they don’t have time, so they have to go redo stuff.
 This is all great stuff. The question was: If somebody is going to hire a marketing specialist internally or externally to advise a plan to help them take their brand to the market, what are the questions they should ask?
 Gaydon: That’s a hard question to answer because of the levels that we are talking about it on. In the context of you are the CMO/CRO, the person listening to this, the first question you need to ask…
 Hugh: The person listening is going to be the top leader in the organization, and they are going to be bringing in a marketing person. How do they qualify that person, whether it is internal, external, or using a service like yours? How do you know it’s going to be the right fit for your organization? We are talking about smaller organizations here.
 Gaydon: I’m making the assumption, Hugh, that these are small enough organizations that we are talking about here that they are not going to hire that CMO. Correct me if I’m wrong. They are wearing the hat. Anecdotally, I have to help them wear that responsibility or hat well. I’m going to take the next five minutes to figure out how to do that better. They are not going to shell out the four, six, or eight thousand dollars a month to bring in the right marketing ninja, right? I hate to say ninja because samurais are probably more tough than ninjas, right?
 Hugh: I think the majority of people fit the category you’ve described. If you educate them on that piece, it would lead them to enough revenue to hire the person you’ve described.
 Gaydon: Exactly. The cadence of this usually looks like you are wearing the CMO hat because you haven’t given it to anyone else yet. Once you grow the company to a certain point, you can, which is brilliant because you really want to be the leader, and you probably don’t want to wear the CMO hat long-term.
 Under the guise of you are wearing the hat, and you are not about to give it to anyone else soon, the first question you need to ask yourself is: Do I know how to write a strategy? I codified a process by which you just use an iPad and peg-leg your way in. I will stop using pirate analogies. You really don’t need to be a samurai. I don’t mean this to be a commercial at all. If you ask yourself how do I write a marketing plan, and you don’t have a step-by-step process, you will write a bad one. That is what this comes down to. It is just too complicated of a subject. Do you feel comfortable writing an enterprise-level strategy to grow a business if you don’t have any training on the subject? That sounds ludicrous. That would be like me trying to train a dog. I know nothing about pets and animals. I chase mountain lions for fun in the back country in the hopes they will eat me. That is my preferred way to die; I want to get eaten by a mountain lion. The problem is, I can’t find one, dang it. The point is: If you are wearing that hat, you have to know how to write a strategy.
 If you wrote a strategy that works, that is really engineered for profitable growth, that you are confident and clear on, now the next question you ask is really important. Now you want to say who can be in the weeds on this thing? Who can manage this strategy on a day-to-day perspective in terms of all the deliverables? You don’t necessarily need to hire a full-time person to do that, but let’s call that person the marketing manager.
 The first question I would ask is: Do you have the ability to hire a full-time or part-time marketing manager to do all the dirty work so that you can continue to be the leader, and you can put on your CMO hat for just 30 minutes a week? If you can do that, here is what I recommend you do in terms of asking questions around hiring a marketing manager.
 You basically put up a job description for an executive assistant. Sounds counter-intuitive. If you ask for a marketing person, here is what you are going to get. You are going to get a yellow personality that is a little bit ADD, super creative, will have a ton of ideas and no follow-through. That’s what you want. Don’t post a job anywhere that says “Hiring marketing…” People will hear that. What you want to do is post a job that says to the effect of, “Looking for an executive assistant,” and then say, “Skills need to include operational efficiencies, doing things on budget, doing things on time, not letting things fall through the cracks.” Then what you do is as you interview the executive assistants, you will find one or two that has a little bit of marketing experience. That is your golden goose. That person will say, “I’m really good at operational stuff, making sure nothing falls through the cracks. But actually I like marketing.” It’s your perfect hire. If you don’t want to do all that, we can talk later, and we can talk on another podcast where I can point them to part-time marketing managers who are certified marketing managers that you don’t have to train or look for or hire. You can just turnkey, boom. A couple grand a month, and they are in your organization helping you out. Most of them work remotely. The point is you can outsource that function. You are really just hiring a 1099 person. That is the real possibility.
 The next level underneath this marketing manager who gets everything done is this specialist, the tactician, the copywriter, the designer, the programmer, the person who has that subject matter expertise that is so specific that you need to bring them in to do that specific job. A really common thing is someone to administer the CRM. Let’s say we are using InfusionSoft or something like that. InfusionSoft is really complicated. You probably should not administer it yourself. Maybe your marketing manager will have those skills, but probably not. So it might make sense to find somebody who has very specific skills administering InfusionSoft that you can pay an hourly rate to whenever you need them.
 The same goes for your graphic designers, your logo people, your website people, your hosting people, your programming people, a data scientist, YouTube experts, LinkedIn experts, anything.
 What I am teaching you to do here is outsource effectively while insourcing effectively. What all your insourcing is is the responsibility you already have. It’s that responsibility you haven’t given anyone else yet. While not changing the scenario, you are changing the paradigm with which you look at it. But you can insource without adding a bunch of costs by just assuming the responsibility to write the strategy. You can definitely insource a marketing manager or hire a 1099. You can outsource effectively by finding specialists.
 What people do, Hugh, and I know you have seen this, is they get opportunistic. Think of a continuum. On one end is opportunist, and on the other end is strategist. The opposite of a strategist is an opportunist; the opposite of an opportunist is a strategist. The number one plague in small business is we get opportunistic. I know that resonates with you because you teach leadership. What an opportunist does outside of marketing is they say, “We need to grow. Let’s go find someone to do that.” They hire an agency and turn over the car keys, the wallet, the house, and everything and say, “Run it for me.” It doesn’t work. I can prove to you that it doesn’t work.
 More than that, some of them will say, “I don’t know if that’s the right idea. We should hire a CMO.” Then they make the decision of thinking the CMO is some deity of marketing, and they can do the strategy, manage the execution, do the execution, do the reporting, report to themselves, and be accountable all at the same time. How opportunistic does that sound? Yet people do it all the time. I ask people, “Who is running point on marketing?” “Our CMO.” “What does he do?” “Everything.” “Wait, hold on, everything?” Then I interview the CMO, and the CMO says, “Gee, the reason why I don’t dare tell this to the CEO, and the reason I can’t do my job, is because I am writing copy, and I am doing design, and I am managing vendors, and I am looking for proposals, and I am managing our events, and I am writing the strategy, and I am editing the strategy, and I am doing the reports.” All you did by hiring that CMO is duplicating your problem of having too many hats on someone else.
 Hugh: Oh that is so spot-on. I talk to people every day that that fits. You have come back to a lot of the themes without even knowing that I teach. My whole paradigm is to reframe leadership as a pathway to profit. This series is converting a passion to profit. You have just tagged a lot of the major leadership decisions that lead organizations to generate recurrable income. Managing that becomes profit. Nonprofits need profit. It’s not for profit; we don’t distribute it individually. But we have to be in the black to achieve our vision and mission.
 I think we have given people a lot to chew on today. I think we can probably talk for hours on these topics. How do people find you and your company?
 Gaydon: I’m not terribly hard to find. My company is called Savavo. G Leavitt or Gaydon Leavitt. If they are really looking for something to take from here forward, I recommend we put up a freebie for your audience to go to marketingsequence.com/ballou. What I have there is a five-part video training course that essentially gives you the basics of how to start to formulate the strategy. If you go there, you will see the videos that will walk you through sequentially, and I think it will help your audience go on the right trajectory.
 Hugh: That’s generous. Marketingsequence.com/ballou. G, you have demonstrated a much higher level of competency than other people I have spoken with. I think you hit a sore spot for 4-12 million companies that are stuck. I find that one very good leadership trait is making a decision to get out of your comfort zone and do something different with different results. Your marketing sucks. You have heard Jeff Magee that says, “SUC is halfway to success.” We don’t get there because we suck. We don’t get there because we are not getting out of our comfort zone and making intelligent leadership decisions that are going to lead us to that profit. That is a generous offer.
 As we pull this to a close, do you have a parting thought for the audience to think about?
 Gaydon: I’m glad you asked that because I think people tend to get hung up if they don’t feel comfortable building a strategy or even spending a dollar to build a strategy. I think the best thing I could give them is the who we are platform. I’ll illustrate this for you right now. This is a tool you can use to immediately improve your pitch, your messaging, and your ability to get a donor, a patient, or a customer immediately using a challenge you are already using. So I will give you mine in hopes you can model mine and create your own. I will give you the four or five steps that are part of this model.
 It goes something like this: I believe marketing is the reason businesses fail and the reason they succeed. I also believe it is the only way they will grow properly. At the rate at which a company or organization is growing is directly related to the marketing acumen, knowledge, or skills and the infrastructure that organization has. I also believe that marketing is a science, not an art, not a lottery, not a crapshoot. You are not at the casino. It’s a process. If you know the process, you could have success with it. Do not think of it as a science. I believe it as a process.
 Because I believe all of these things, my mission and purpose as an organization, as an entrepreneur, as someone who is trying to provide value to the world, is to turn marketing into a science and into a predictable, followable, learnable, masterable process for people. We believe we are doing that.
 The benefit to that process is clarity, confidence, and ultimately return on investment. It creates ROI. It creates bigger companies, faster companies, and better companies. The question that I have for you is: How clear are you about how to turn your marketing into predictable, profitable process?
 Hugh: Gaydon Leavitt, very well-spoken. Thank you for sharing your intellectual property with my listeners today. Hope you have a great day. I look forward to the next conversation.
 Gaydon: Thank you so much.
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        <![CDATA[<p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Hey, this is Hugh Ballou. My guest today is Gaydon Leavitt. His friends call him G. G, I hope I can call you that. I am your friend, right?</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>I met G recently, and I was just blown away by the level of his expertise in marketing and the level of the programs he has to offer those of us who are social entrepreneurs. We are working in a vacuum sometimes, and we think everybody ought to clamor to our door. But we really have not developed a marketing strategy to attract those people to the value that we have. G, welcome today.</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>Thank you for having me.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>We have a very dedicated group of social entrepreneurs who are changing the world. We don’t have a corporate job by choice because we have a value proposition that is just awesome. But we are stuck. Tell us a little more about your background. Why is it that you are qualified to talk to us about marketing? I know, but give us a little snapshot for people that are listening today.</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>Marketing is the only thing I have ever done. There’s that. I worked at Ford doing the digital agency movement. This was in 2004-2006; this was before social media if you can imagine. At that time, I was really in charge of building an Internet department, getting CRM up and running. That was back before CRM was common. Everyone knows what a CRM is these days usually.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Tell us what that stands for.</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>Customer Relationship Management software.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Is that Ford Motor Company?</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>Yeah. This was at a regional group of dealerships. I was working for them and basically getting infrastructure in place. The punchline is that I did that for long enough—CRM, website, search engines, all that stuff. I was at the forefront of that. Once I got it set up for them, I knew that everyone else needed it. I started a digital agency. Back then, it wasn’t called a digital agency, but now it is. These days, digital agencies are really commonplace. A lot of companies do websites, search engine optimization, and social media. I was at the forefront of all that. Most people who know my background know that the real driver for what I’m doing is always being on the bleeding edge of the market, the innovation side of the market. When it comes to marketing, I am always looking for where it’s going and try to steal ahead.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Let me get this straight. You do things that work in real life. This is not just theory?</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>Not at all. To give you an idea, I started my company January 1, 2007. It was actually January 2 because the city office wasn’t open January 1. The point is, 2007 was not the greatest year to start a business, it turns out. 2008 rolled in, the recession took its toll, but I grew our company 235% four years in a row. We did 700 client engagements, well over a million dollars. We were having a ball. We were having a good time. What happens was through the middle of a recession and growth, I became one of the top people in my field in the West, as it were, certainly in our state, which is the marketing capital of the universe.</p> <p>In 2012, I woke up. After having done strategy and digital services for 700 customers, I had really curated a case study. The 700-business case study. I knew what was going on because I was knee-deep in strategic marketing relationships with these 700 businesses. What I did was I compiled the data as it were. I put together the things that I knew were a problem. I knew people were missing. I did what I called root-cause analysis. This goes back to theory of constraints and other things I studied. I did a root-cause analysis to figure out what are the real problems in the SBM or small entrepreneurship space. What are they doing wrong? Who are they hiring? Why are they hiring them? Why are the engagements working? Why are they not working? What happened in 2012 was I wrote a plan to solve those problems. Between then and now, I have stopped those digital services and really dedicated myself to solving the problems I have found.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>I do a one-day leadership empowerment symposium in one city every month. I am coming to your neighborhood, but I haven’t put it on the schedule yet. But I find there are common things: leader burnout. They are doing way too much. They don’t even have time to think about marketing. Their board is underfunctioning, their staff is not functioning at the level it should, and they are not making the revenue that they need to achieve their vision. You have done this real-life work, which matches with what I’m seeing. We are talking to the leaders of these movements. These people have great ideas. What is the leadership decision? Why shouldn’t someone just hire someone to do marketing and then forget about it? What do leaders need to know about marketing in order to make an intelligent decision about getting someone like you engaged for their enterprise?</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>The first thing they need to know is that hiring a marketing agency and then turning your back—in other words, outsourcing and allocating your responsibility to grow your organization—doesn’t work. Nine times out of ten, it just does not work. The phrase we like to use is: You cannot outsource what you have given yourself the responsibility to do.</p> <p>The first question you need to ask is: Who is wearing the CRO or the CMO hat? CRO is Chief Revenue Officer. CMO is Chief Marketing Officer. The point is, somebody has that hat on right this second. Who has that hat? What I am saying in no uncertain terms is if you give that hat to someone who does not work at your company or is dedicated to that function and you give it to an outsource provider… I am not saying you can’t bring in a part-time CMO or CRO that serves that purpose that is technically a 1099. That’s fine; that can work. To hand it to an agency and think they will run the growth of your company the way you want it to is fallacious at best. So who wears the CRO hat?</p> <p>If that person is defined, the next question is: Do they have the skills to play the role? I like to follow that up with a little bit of philosophy. At the end of the day, Peter Truckers’ quote rings in my ears, and it should ring in everyone’s ears who is listening to this call. “The business enterprise has two and only two basic functions: marketing and innovation. All the rest are costs.” The spirit of what he is trying to say is the purpose of the enterprise is to gain a customer. Marketing’s job is to gain a customer. I use customer loosely. We are talking customer, client, patient, donor, whatever it means. I’ll use customer loosely. The point is that is the purpose of your enterprise. If you have a social enterprise and the purpose of it is not to make a profit, that’s fine. This isn’t capitalism necessarily for you. But you will never change the world with your social entrepreneurship if you can’t make money. You can’t accomplish your mission without the cash, and you can’t get the cash without the marketing.</p> <p>We say marketing in academic terms. Marketing is the process by which we take what we have to the market. It’s not advertising, it’s not PR, and it’s not sales. It’s the holism of all of that. How are you going to get what you have to the audience you want to have it? The science of that is really the spirit of what I do. It’s your responsibility unless you have given it to somebody else. In that case, we are talking to that person. But the conversation needs to have a place where the buck stops. Somebody is wearing the hat. That’s where I start.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>You have distinguished a number of different things. For 30 years, I have worked with charities doing my vision of strategic planning, which I call a solution map. Where do you want to be, and how are you going to get there? A traditional component is the same components for normal companies, but it is modified for charities. Part of it is realizing that nonprofit is a tax classification, not a philosophy. The other one is to build into this marketing strategy, which is not an area of my expertise. That is part of why we are talking today. I do have other collaborators in experts and sales and PR. People tend to confuse all of those things. You have distinguished what those are.</p> <p>You highlighted a really important leadership paradigm. It’s the piece of delegation. People who are leaders think they know about delegation. Here, do this and they forget it. That’s not delegation. There is a mentoring piece that goes with that. There is a championing piece. There is an accountability installation. There is a follow-up piece, which is way different than micro-managing. Whether you are hiring someone internally or externally, I would like to add that I agree with all of that. We still as leaders want to define the outcomes, and then we work with whomever it is for them to tell us what the metrics are and the tactics we are going to use to get there. We as a leader still nurture and approve that. If we are not engaged at any level as a leader, that is a problem. The trick is not to overfunction and to find someone gifted and to be engaged enough so that we can tweak it. Who knows more about our vision than us? Who understands the outcomes more than us? We as leaders are not clear on the outcomes, and we are not clear on how to delegate or manage a process. How do you feel about that?</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>I totally agree. From the context of marketing, I see the problems that you are talking about but from the marketing angle. That’s the lens that I view things from because that is my subject matter of expertise. Let me make this real tactical for you, Hugh.</p> <p>Once we define who that CRO/CMO is, and for those of you who are listening, you just felt a tremendous responsibility realizing that that hat is on your head. If that is the case, I want to relieve you because that is the first step: realizing that it is your responsibility. Once you know that, the good news is that the case study I was talking about, with 700 businesses, here is what we found. The CRO/CMO position should be a strategic one. Customer acquisition, donor acquisition, whatever you want to call it, marketing departments function best when there is a strategic person whose responsibility is strategy and high-level decision making. When there is someone who is not charge of strategy and is operational, they are in the weeds. The good news is if you are wearing the CMO hat today, you can do that responsibility with as little as 20-30 minutes a week.</p> <p><strong>Hugh:  </strong>That’s awesome.</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>I have engineered a system for that. I am not saying it’s easy. It took me a long time to build something. But the punchline is that you don’t need to be overwhelmed by the responsibility. You just need to take it seriously. I have built what some people call the CMO’s toolkit to enable that person who is playing the CMO role part-time as it were because they are wearing ten other hats to do that job well. The mistake people make in my world, and I don’t know if it adapts itself to the other areas that you focus on, is they think of the CMO as the end-all be-all. They don’t think of them as the strategic outlet. They think of them as strategy, execution, the kitchen sink. The CMO should not be in the weeds communicating with every single vendor, trying to figure out all the details, editing the site, writing all the copy. That is not what CMOs should be doing. The mistake people make is they think they need marketing, so they think they can hire a CMO. Maybe I can hire a marketing manager. That person inherently has skills. Marketing is too broad to give it to someone and expect them to do all of it. You have to get more intelligent about that hire, that function. Whether you are hiring or not is really irrelevant. The function of that role is really what we are talking about. Strategy versus implementation or management, those are two different things.</p> <p>When I am looking for a marketing manager, someone to work under a CMO, I look for an ops person, someone who is operationally savvy. This is someone who never lets anything fall through the cracks. They are super OCD. They never show up late. You know the type, right? They are not the person who you peg as a marketing person. They are more of an executive assistant who happens to understand the marketing strategy well enough to take it to execution. Those are the best marketing managers.</p> <p>The punchline is if you have one of those people, and it was your responsibility to be the CMO, all you have to do is a 30-minute-a-week meeting with a marketing manager who knows how to run marketing, who knows how to do all the tactics. I don’t mean tactics from the perspective of a marketing manager as a copywriter or a programmer or a designer. Those are functions you need to hire out. Outsource those effectively to the right programmer, to the right price. Live with the consequence. Have the marketing manager do all of that. There is a system. It’s almost like you were getting into human capital hierarchy. That is probably pretty similar to what you are talking about.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>It is. I spent 40 years as a musical conductor, and the image on the podcast is me in my tails. It’s Orchestrating Success. What you just defined is orchestrating success. I would hire the best players. I hired members of the Atlanta Symphony when I was in Atlanta who were very skilled. They were also union members. Downbeats when you start, and two hours later, you get paid for a two-hour gig, and they are either leaving or you are paying overtime. My job as a leader is to define the results and make the most out of them. You don’t micro-manage them. You don’t hire the best oboe player and tell him how to play the oboe. You do tell him what you want and you do shape the process. I bet most people haven’t even thought about a CMO, that it hasn’t even entered their consciousness. To have the best oboe player who knows how to play the oboe, well, they need the music. Maybe it’s not music you wrote. Maybe there is a sketch or some improvisatory piece. It might be jazz. But we have a very rigid structure. We have a very clear outcome, and we know where we are going. It’s my job as a leader. It’s pool leadership; it’s bringing the best out of all of these distinct players. Here is the barrier. “I can’t afford that” is going to be the number one objection. How do you respond to a leader’s comment of, “That sounds great, but I can’t afford that”?</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>It’s interesting that you would say that because people call me a marketing scientist, and I get accused of being a mathematician because so much of what I do is the mathematics behind the customer acquisition system. In your world, it might be a client or a donor. It doesn’t matter what the nomenclature is, but you need to know the mathematics of your business. If we think of nonprofits in a nonprofit sort of way, they don’t really thrive. If we think of them as businesses, they can thrive. Business economics, venture capitalists call it unit economics, and for this purpose, I would call it acquisition economics. You need to know your acquisition economics. You need to know what a donor or a customer is worth to your business. When you know that number, you can reverse engineer yourself. To say you can’t afford it is saying I got a blindfold on and don’t know mathematics well enough to know what I can spend to acquire more donors and customers, etc. You have to take the blindfold off, expose yourself to the mathematics, and understand that this is a business and it is based on math and it’s really simple. Dollars in, dollars out. In the marketing world, it’s customers in, acquisition cost out. In other words, how much am I willing to pay to get a customer knowing how much they are going to pay me to be a customer? The multiple between what they are worth to you and what you are willing to pay to get them is where the magic is. That is where the private equity firms focus their energy. That is what venture capitalists want to know before they acquire a big company. In your world, it’s probably not any different. You may just have not audited before. But you have an acquisition cost right now. You have a marketing budget right now. You have a CMO right now. You may just not have defined it that way.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>The social entrepreneurs are the COE, the Chief of Everything. Part of that is their problem. They are trying to be experts in everything, and they are trying to pinch pennies. I am a recovering Scottish Presbyterian. I am just as guilty as anybody. We know how to bend a penny. But there is a practical side to this when we need to find really good people and get out of the way. The reason we don’t have money to do that is because our marketing sucks. The client acquisition of the church or the synagogue would be members or community foundations. We want to have members. Those members are our local charities. They are members in mission. They are members in servant leaders in the community. I abolished the word “volunteer” when I worked with organizations like that because it is a different dumbing-down mindset. We are leaders in action.</p> <p>Reframing the thinking, even though we are a nonprofit—like I said, it is not a philosophy, it is a tax clarification—it is a tax-exempt charity, it is a social benefit organization. We don’t treat our systems as important as our mission is. Our mission has got to make a huge difference. We dumb down on the money part. With charities, we want to save the whales; we don’t care about money. Wait a minute. You are going to build a car, but you haven’t learned to drive it, and you haven’t put gas in it. How is it going to go anywhere? We need to be good stewards on all the resources, including the cash flow. We can’t achieve our mission without the fuel in the car, which is your cash flow. Churches tend to backpedal on that. Sales is evangelism in the church.</p> <p>I told you I grew up as a Scottish Presbyterian. The old joke is when you cross a Presbyterian with a Jehovah’s Witness, what you get is someone who knocks on the door with nothing to say. Most of us don’t even knock on the door. I’m not cutting out any particular sect. But there is a pattern of knocking on the door and marketing your message, which is what they do in that denomination. But we don’t do that very well. We are closed in on this enclave. We are not a cloister or a monastery.</p> <p>Rethinking how we do church and charities and enterprise as a small business owner is where I live. This series of recordings is about leadership paradigms. What you have just uncovered is a huge paradigm. It’s taking it off my plate, finding someone competent, and working with them to let them do what we need to have done. Part of it is getting out of the way, and the other part of this is how to select a good marketing person. Part of my work is working with leaders selecting the right team, whether they are board members, staff, or people like you and me who provide goods and services for this organization.</p> <p>If somebody is selecting a marketing expert, even for a CMO or higher, what are the questions they should ask?</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>The question I always ask: Who is in charge of growing the business? In a smaller organization, that is usually easy to answer, whomever that is. May I make two comments before I get to your question?</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Absolutely.</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>The question you have to ask yourself is this: Do you actually have a growth goal for the organization? Is that even the topic of conversation? Are we trying to grow membership at our church? That is an example. If that is the case, this is the next question you ask yourself: What would it mean if I were to hit that target? I don’t know what that target is. That is on your plate. Did I hit that target last year? If I did, that’s great. How much did you hope it would have grown last year? My guess is if I grew last year, it probably didn’t grow as much as you wanted it to. If it didn’t grow last year, are you willing to do anything to solve the problem? If you’re not willing to do anything to solve that problem, there isn’t really a lot of what we are talking about that it is going to be able to solve.</p> <p>So I’m going to say anecdotally that you want to grow membership 10%. For those of you who are listening carefully, you may want to think, “Man, what would it mean for me to grow membership by 10% this year? What would it mean for me to grow membership 10% this month?” I grow businesses up to 235% a year. I know what it means to grow the business over 10% per month. It’s a big deal. You have to ask yourself whether that is actually a goal for you, a realistic target for you, and if you actually want to do it. But it does cost some money. The investment will be worth it.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Let me comment on your comment before you answer the question. May I?</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>Please.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>If somebody is going through my strategy process, somebody is going to go through my goals. We tend to run around and do a lot of stuff as entrepreneurs. We implement tactics in the absence of an overall strategy, which is what we do with marketing as well. We try this and try this and try this, and it didn’t work. I say to people, “I tried to exercise one day last year and it didn’t work, so I stopped.” There is this limited experiment that is also we are doing the tactic piece. What you are talking about is a very important leadership paradigm. Have a plan.</p> <p>Sorry, that is a commercial for me. If you do your strategy, you will know what your end goals are. That is a great question. I wanted to affirm that question. Let me stop interrupting you.</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>I love it. I’ll be honest. If you don’t have a growth goal, or if growth is not at the top of your priority list, then they don’t need me. They probably need you, but they don’t need me. I’m the growth guy. I’m the profitable growth guy.</p> <p>If you do want growth, there is so much data that I have in doing this for 12 years in a case study environment as a marketing scientist figuring out all the reasons why it didn’t work. I know why it didn’t work, Hugh. That’s the punchline. They could hand me that case study and say, “This is what I did. Tell me why it didn’t work.” Within two minutes, I will know why it didn’t work.</p> <p>A little golden nugget is if you have been in this space long enough, 90% of marketing activities that fail fail not because of the medium or the tactic of choice. What most people think is, “I tried radio. It didn’t work. Radio must not work for me, my business, my industry, my geographics, whatever.” The reality is, the magic is never in the medium; it’s always in the message. If you are writing something down, write that down: The magic is never in the medium; the magic is in the message. The message is an overly simplified way to say the magic is in your entire marketing infrastructure that leads to the message the person hears. I’m not saying go out and rewrite a message a million times. I’m saying the message is born of your audience itself. If you don’t target the audience and segment it well enough, that is your first mistake that will come out in the message.</p> <p>Another thing is your drivers. What is your audience motivated by? What are their problems? What keeps them up at night staring at the ceiling wondering how they are going to solve this? What are their hot buttons? Knowing the audience, their desires, motivations, drivers, etc., really leaves you to say, “Okay, if I understand that audience, let’s keep looking externally and figure out if there is anything about the industry, its competition, its solution alternatives, and other things at play that might affect my ability to speak to them on that level and get them to want to join me in my mission, my quest, and my social entrepreneurship in the purpose of my company.” There might be competitors at bay who can beat you on price and other things. You have to look at those.</p> <p>Once you define that audience, those industry drivers, those competitive drivers, you start to look internally. Who are we? How are we going to prove our viability to this particular audience? How are we going to position ourselves to that audience? Are we the Lexus in the market? Are we the Toyota in the market? Are we the Scion in the market? Are we the Smartcar in the market? Are we the Tesla in the market? Who are we? If it’s a church and about membership, it’s still relevant. Everybody is positioned. You are positioned relative to the competitors and the space, and you are positioned in relation to the things that differentiate you that you can message to.</p> <p>When you look at audience and drivers and competition and how that leads to positioning and differentiation, eventually, if you go through the whole process, that frankly I have codified, you get to the message. Nine times out of ten, the marketing activity fails because of that message. It’s not because of the person who you hired to write the message is incompetent as a writer. It’s usually because you are not competent as a strategist.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>I love it. Of course I think you are brilliant. That’s great. Say this again. It was profound.</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>The reality is, the magic is in the message, not in the medium. The message is failing not because the writer who wrote it is incompetent, but because the strategist who was behind it is incompetent.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>It would occur to me that if you got 700-something clients in the recession and you grew your business exponentially in the recession, that you understand marketing. You understand how this client acquisition thing works. Any of us in any of these institutions need critical mass to do what we are doing, and we need to continually grow it because we are growing our vision, which is usually way bigger than we can achieve. We are visionaries. Several people who are entrepreneurs say, “Do all of you suffer from insanity?” I say, “Heck no, we enjoy it.” It’s a way of life. You are one of us, so I just put us in the same bucket. We are individuals; however, the very things that drive us are also the thorns in our side. Our assets are our liabilities. We don’t want to participate in this corporate structure; however, we need the discipline of working within structure in order to let the full creativity of our vision materialize. We tend to poo-poo the discipline and system parts of it because we want the freedom of our entrepreneur.</p> <p>As a musician, I know this. Once we got the music, once we have rehearsed it, once we have done all the hard work, then we are free to be creative. There is a pathway to creating the strategy, which you so eloquently articulated. There is a discipline part of this. As you said earlier, there is work in this. There is no easy button. I tell people that there is no easy button in the work I do, but there is an easier button. When people try to do it themselves, it takes way longer and we make it way harder and they spend a whole lot of money, especially money they don’t have, and they don’t have time, so they have to go redo stuff.</p> <p>This is all great stuff. The question was: If somebody is going to hire a marketing specialist internally or externally to advise a plan to help them take their brand to the market, what are the questions they should ask?</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>That’s a hard question to answer because of the levels that we are talking about it on. In the context of you are the CMO/CRO, the person listening to this, the first question you need to ask…</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>The person listening is going to be the top leader in the organization, and they are going to be bringing in a marketing person. How do they qualify that person, whether it is internal, external, or using a service like yours? How do you know it’s going to be the right fit for your organization? We are talking about smaller organizations here.</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>I’m making the assumption, Hugh, that these are small enough organizations that we are talking about here that they are not going to hire that CMO. Correct me if I’m wrong. They are wearing the hat. Anecdotally, I have to help them wear that responsibility or hat well. I’m going to take the next five minutes to figure out how to do that better. They are not going to shell out the four, six, or eight thousand dollars a month to bring in the right marketing ninja, right? I hate to say ninja because samurais are probably more tough than ninjas, right?</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>I think the majority of people fit the category you’ve described. If you educate them on that piece, it would lead them to enough revenue to hire the person you’ve described.</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>Exactly. The cadence of this usually looks like you are wearing the CMO hat because you haven’t given it to anyone else yet. Once you grow the company to a certain point, you can, which is brilliant because you really want to be the leader, and you probably don’t want to wear the CMO hat long-term.</p> <p>Under the guise of you are wearing the hat, and you are not about to give it to anyone else soon, the first question you need to ask yourself is: Do I know how to write a strategy? I codified a process by which you just use an iPad and peg-leg your way in. I will stop using pirate analogies. You really don’t need to be a samurai. I don’t mean this to be a commercial at all. If you ask yourself how do I write a marketing plan, and you don’t have a step-by-step process, you will write a bad one. That is what this comes down to. It is just too complicated of a subject. Do you feel comfortable writing an enterprise-level strategy to grow a business if you don’t have any training on the subject? That sounds ludicrous. That would be like me trying to train a dog. I know nothing about pets and animals. I chase mountain lions for fun in the back country in the hopes they will eat me. That is my preferred way to die; I want to get eaten by a mountain lion. The problem is, I can’t find one, dang it. The point is: If you are wearing that hat, you have to know how to write a strategy.</p> <p>If you wrote a strategy that works, that is really engineered for profitable growth, that you are confident and clear on, now the next question you ask is really important. Now you want to say who can be in the weeds on this thing? Who can manage this strategy on a day-to-day perspective in terms of all the deliverables? You don’t necessarily need to hire a full-time person to do that, but let’s call that person the marketing manager.</p> <p>The first question I would ask is: Do you have the ability to hire a full-time or part-time marketing manager to do all the dirty work so that you can continue to be the leader, and you can put on your CMO hat for just 30 minutes a week? If you can do that, here is what I recommend you do in terms of asking questions around hiring a marketing manager.</p> <p>You basically put up a job description for an executive assistant. Sounds counter-intuitive. If you ask for a marketing person, here is what you are going to get. You are going to get a yellow personality that is a little bit ADD, super creative, will have a ton of ideas and no follow-through. That’s what you want. Don’t post a job anywhere that says “Hiring marketing…” People will hear that. What you want to do is post a job that says to the effect of, “Looking for an executive assistant,” and then say, “Skills need to include operational efficiencies, doing things on budget, doing things on time, not letting things fall through the cracks.” Then what you do is as you interview the executive assistants, you will find one or two that has a little bit of marketing experience. That is your golden goose. That person will say, “I’m really good at operational stuff, making sure nothing falls through the cracks. But actually I like marketing.” It’s your perfect hire. If you don’t want to do all that, we can talk later, and we can talk on another podcast where I can point them to part-time marketing managers who are certified marketing managers that you don’t have to train or look for or hire. You can just turnkey, boom. A couple grand a month, and they are in your organization helping you out. Most of them work remotely. The point is you can outsource that function. You are really just hiring a 1099 person. That is the real possibility.</p> <p>The next level underneath this marketing manager who gets everything done is this specialist, the tactician, the copywriter, the designer, the programmer, the person who has that subject matter expertise that is so specific that you need to bring them in to do that specific job. A really common thing is someone to administer the CRM. Let’s say we are using InfusionSoft or something like that. InfusionSoft is really complicated. You probably should not administer it yourself. Maybe your marketing manager will have those skills, but probably not. So it might make sense to find somebody who has very specific skills administering InfusionSoft that you can pay an hourly rate to whenever you need them.</p> <p>The same goes for your graphic designers, your logo people, your website people, your hosting people, your programming people, a data scientist, YouTube experts, LinkedIn experts, anything.</p> <p>What I am teaching you to do here is outsource effectively while insourcing effectively. What all your insourcing is is the responsibility you already have. It’s that responsibility you haven’t given anyone else yet. While not changing the scenario, you are changing the paradigm with which you look at it. But you can insource without adding a bunch of costs by just assuming the responsibility to write the strategy. You can definitely insource a marketing manager or hire a 1099. You can outsource effectively by finding specialists.</p> <p>What people do, Hugh, and I know you have seen this, is they get opportunistic. Think of a continuum. On one end is opportunist, and on the other end is strategist. The opposite of a strategist is an opportunist; the opposite of an opportunist is a strategist. The number one plague in small business is we get opportunistic. I know that resonates with you because you teach leadership. What an opportunist does outside of marketing is they say, “We need to grow. Let’s go find someone to do that.” They hire an agency and turn over the car keys, the wallet, the house, and everything and say, “Run it for me.” It doesn’t work. I can prove to you that it doesn’t work.</p> <p>More than that, some of them will say, “I don’t know if that’s the right idea. We should hire a CMO.” Then they make the decision of thinking the CMO is some deity of marketing, and they can do the strategy, manage the execution, do the execution, do the reporting, report to themselves, and be accountable all at the same time. How opportunistic does that sound? Yet people do it all the time. I ask people, “Who is running point on marketing?” “Our CMO.” “What does he do?” “Everything.” “Wait, hold on, everything?” Then I interview the CMO, and the CMO says, “Gee, the reason why I don’t dare tell this to the CEO, and the reason I can’t do my job, is because I am writing copy, and I am doing design, and I am managing vendors, and I am looking for proposals, and I am managing our events, and I am writing the strategy, and I am editing the strategy, and I am doing the reports.” All you did by hiring that CMO is duplicating your problem of having too many hats on someone else.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Oh that is so spot-on. I talk to people every day that that fits. You have come back to a lot of the themes without even knowing that I teach. My whole paradigm is to reframe leadership as a pathway to profit. This series is converting a passion to profit. You have just tagged a lot of the major leadership decisions that lead organizations to generate recurrable income. Managing that becomes profit. Nonprofits need profit. It’s not for profit; we don’t distribute it individually. But we have to be in the black to achieve our vision and mission.</p> <p>I think we have given people a lot to chew on today. I think we can probably talk for hours on these topics. How do people find you and your company?</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>I’m not terribly hard to find. My company is called Savavo. G Leavitt or Gaydon Leavitt. If they are really looking for something to take from here forward, I recommend we put up a freebie for your audience to go to marketingsequence.com/ballou. What I have there is a five-part video training course that essentially gives you the basics of how to start to formulate the strategy. If you go there, you will see the videos that will walk you through sequentially, and I think it will help your audience go on the right trajectory.</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>That’s generous. Marketingsequence.com/ballou. G, you have demonstrated a much higher level of competency than other people I have spoken with. I think you hit a sore spot for 4-12 million companies that are stuck. I find that one very good leadership trait is making a decision to get out of your comfort zone and do something different with different results. Your marketing sucks. You have heard Jeff Magee that says, “SUC is halfway to success.” We don’t get there because we suck. We don’t get there because we are not getting out of our comfort zone and making intelligent leadership decisions that are going to lead us to that profit. That is a generous offer.</p> <p>As we pull this to a close, do you have a parting thought for the audience to think about?</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>I’m glad you asked that because I think people tend to get hung up if they don’t feel comfortable building a strategy or even spending a dollar to build a strategy. I think the best thing I could give them is the who we are platform. I’ll illustrate this for you right now. This is a tool you can use to immediately improve your pitch, your messaging, and your ability to get a donor, a patient, or a customer immediately using a challenge you are already using. So I will give you mine in hopes you can model mine and create your own. I will give you the four or five steps that are part of this model.</p> <p>It goes something like this: I believe marketing is the reason businesses fail and the reason they succeed. I also believe it is the only way they will grow properly. At the rate at which a company or organization is growing is directly related to the marketing acumen, knowledge, or skills and the infrastructure that organization has. I also believe that marketing is a science, not an art, not a lottery, not a crapshoot. You are not at the casino. It’s a process. If you know the process, you could have success with it. Do not think of it as a science. I believe it as a process.</p> <p>Because I believe all of these things, my mission and purpose as an organization, as an entrepreneur, as someone who is trying to provide value to the world, is to turn marketing into a science and into a predictable, followable, learnable, masterable process for people. We believe we are doing that.</p> <p>The benefit to that process is clarity, confidence, and ultimately return on investment. It creates ROI. It creates bigger companies, faster companies, and better companies. The question that I have for you is: How clear are you about how to turn your marketing into predictable, profitable process?</p> <p><strong>Hugh: </strong>Gaydon Leavitt, very well-spoken. Thank you for sharing your intellectual property with my listeners today. Hope you have a great day. I look forward to the next conversation.</p> <p><strong>Gaydon: </strong>Thank you so much.</p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Exploring the Colocation Option</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-exploring-the-colocation-option</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2015 18:53:47 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/877cb946-b329-11eb-9f0f-1be27e9245c6/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Katie Edwards from the Nonprofit Centers Network</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1744</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: The Culture Checkup</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-the-culture-checkup</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:28:02 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/878e88b0-b329-11eb-9f0f-a719403ff25b/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Todd Greer</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1380</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: The Social Collaboratory</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-the-social-collaboratory</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:54:17 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/87ad155a-b329-11eb-9f0f-5f7f6b00da50/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Announcing a new social innovation program wi/ Evaluate for Change</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1470</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Nonprofit Excellence Workshops</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-nonprofit-excellence-workshops</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2015 22:34:23 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/87c3716a-b329-11eb-9f0f-af3d75be5de5/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Hugh Ballou</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1961</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: The Productivity Zone</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-the-productivity-zone</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2015 20:18:22 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/87e237ee-b329-11eb-9f0f-ab292d1e37d0/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Penny Zenker </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>2115</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Creating a Spark</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-creating-a-spark</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2015 23:12:54 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/87fb4fea-b329-11eb-9f0f-8f5c806fadf6/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Rebecca Howard of The Fuse Project on creating innovative fundraising events</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1710</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Living Your Strengths</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-living-your-strengths</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2015 18:52:13 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8818d7c2-b329-11eb-9f0f-3bc81287da12/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Dr. Al Winseman, Senior Consultant - Gallup</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>2136</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: A Conversation with NTEN</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-a-conversation-with-nten</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2015 18:46:14 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/882fc82e-b329-11eb-9f0f-bfaeca779f09/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Megan Keane, Membership Director of NTEN</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1829</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Its Starts With Listening</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-its-starts-with-listening</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2015 19:00:49 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8847fa02-b329-11eb-9f0f-bbce4b87c7c8/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Dr. John Savage</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1890</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Values-Based Leadership</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-values-based-leadership</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2015 17:35:54 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/886008cc-b329-11eb-9f0f-27baf101cdea/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Mark Fernandes, Chief Leadership Officer of the Luck Companies</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1904</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: The ART of Responsible Communication</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-the-art-of-responsible-communication</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2015 19:35:54 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/887f4b88-b329-11eb-9f0f-b7b164111192/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Dr. David Remund</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1855</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: How to be a Positive Leader</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-how-to-be-a-positive-leader</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2015 22:26:24 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/88915206-b329-11eb-9f0f-0b4214967ab1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Dr. Gretchen Spreitzer</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1700</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Purpose in Leadership</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-purpose-in-leadership</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2015 19:02:33 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/88ab327a-b329-11eb-9f0f-bf408980c958/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Dr. Justin Irving</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1788</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Creating Leaderful Organizations</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-creating-leaderful-organizations</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:16:30 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/88bcdd18-b329-11eb-9f0f-37144e2ec586/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Dr. Joseph Raelin</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>2647</itunes:duration>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: #The5Qs with Frances Hesselbein </title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-the5qs-with-frances-hesselbein</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2015 19:04:56 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/88d6f96e-b329-11eb-9f0f-c3a0336e93f4/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Examining Peter Drucker's Five Most Important Questions</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>2589</itunes:duration>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Doing Well and Doing Good!</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-doing-well-and-doing-good</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2015 14:37:09 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/88efdfba-b329-11eb-9f0f-7f334e0b530b/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Rob Touchstone of The Well Coffeehouse</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2515</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Going Social!</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-going-social</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:56:40 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/891715da-b329-11eb-9f0f-2710452a1d0e/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Kiki L'Italien is our guest as we explore social media and the future of the nonprofit association!</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2375</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Why Millennials Matter</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-why-millennials-matter</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2015 18:10:51 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/892f033e-b329-11eb-9f0f-a7f3ffefa148/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Joan Kuhl, Founder of Why Millennials Matter and co-author of The Five Most Important Questions</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2520</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: A Conversation with YNPN</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-a-conversation-with-ynpn</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:01:32 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8949815a-b329-11eb-9f0f-d3f6abd949e4/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Jamie Smith, Communication Director of the Young Nonprofit Professionals Network is our special guest</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2525</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Millennials in the Nonprofit World</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-millennials-in-the-nonprofit-world</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2015 01:41:54 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/895f97c4-b329-11eb-9f0f-a7172ddf5684/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>A panel discussion with Ariel Lev, Drew Lichtenberger, Hugh Ballou, Jamie Notter, Joan Kuhl, Scott Smith, and Kyle Gracey</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2935</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Learning Community from Coworking</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-learning-community-from-coworking</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:54:07 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/896ff4ca-b329-11eb-9f0f-0746729de8cd/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Ariel Lev, Director of the Grandin CoLab</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2175</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[161f6f9e1121562ef7cb6e091e0421f5]]></guid>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: When Millennials Take Over</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-when-millennials-take-over</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:00:28 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8985154e-b329-11eb-9f0f-9b2f59bcefa5/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Jamie Notter (co-author of When Millennials Take Over)</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2458</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Sustainability, Millennials, and the Future of the Nonprofit</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-sustainability-millennials-and-the-future-of-the-nonprofit</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:59:07 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/899bc5c8-b329-11eb-9f0f-771ea62ad0e8/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Kyle Gracey</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2050</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: eLearning in the Nonprofit</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-elearning-in-the-nonprofit</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2015 20:12:43 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/89b246c2-b329-11eb-9f0f-23706e636fcc/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Isaac Tolpin of Choose Growth</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>1956</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[d85be7a0bb5f817d7d13c1205554e8d3]]></guid>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Learning to Forgive</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-learning-to-forgive</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 21:27:57 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/89c6ba6c-b329-11eb-9f0f-b3bed04b5470/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Dr. Everett Worthington is our guest as we explore forgiveness in the nonprofit and religious world</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2285</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[85c2135b2c748fa5082408e666a40308]]></guid>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange - Minding the Gap</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-minding-the-gap</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2015 16:28:45 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/89e5ea2c-b329-11eb-9f0f-339382c6a9cc/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Nate Turner</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2225</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[3d0acde55bae3b467702c60f04910592]]></guid>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Engaging Your Social Media Following </title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-engaging-your-social-media-following</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:58:30 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/89fe077e-b329-11eb-9f0f-efed888f3363/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Ken Rochon</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2131</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[4fe1d91fc86cfcd73b86908b9122f757]]></guid>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Measuring Nonprofit Impact</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-measuring-nonprofit-impact</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:54:49 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8a1b0c2a-b329-11eb-9f0f-e7f25ab7c796/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Amanda Babine</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2060</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2714219475.mp3" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Do You Know Your Organizational Climate</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-do-you-know-your-organizational-climate</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:53:54 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8a30efd6-b329-11eb-9f0f-3b2e06f6a6dd/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Dr. Mike Mahan</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>2090</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[809211756e008c8016f078a2cc881509]]></guid>
      <enclosure url="https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSN2062399919.mp3?updated=1621009808" length="0" type="audio/mpeg"/>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Panel Discussion on Values in the Nonprofit World</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-panel-discussion-on-values-in-the-nonprofit-world-0</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:52:27 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8a4cd8e0-b329-11eb-9f0f-1ff8a870ccc1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle></itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
      </content:encoded>
      <itunes:duration>3010</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
      <guid isPermaLink="false"><![CDATA[8f6c8834ac7bef47b6c12281fd31de06]]></guid>
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    <item>
      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Engaging in Your Nonprofit</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-engaging-in-your-nonprofit-0</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:41:29 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8a66b72e-b329-11eb-9f0f-2f92726e761e/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Scott Brunner</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
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        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>The Nonprofit Exchange: Leadership Lessons from the Frontlines</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/the-nonprofit-exchange-leadership-lessons-from-the-frontlines</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2015 21:23:07 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8a7ea988-b329-11eb-9f0f-03971fdc6461/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Scott Smith</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/busting-creativity-myths-in-the-nonprofit-world</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2015 17:54:45 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8a90df18-b329-11eb-9f0f-23dbba725b47/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ David Burkus</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Mission-Driven Nonprofits - Session #3 </title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/mission-driven-nonprofits-session-3</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2015 15:07:58 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8aa6bf18-b329-11eb-9f0f-535602526266/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>W/ Brian Sooy</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Mission-Driven Nonprofits - Session #2</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/mission-driven-nonprofits-session-2</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2015 15:07:12 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8abd2320-b329-11eb-9f0f-b707dc5ee296/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>W/ Brian Sooy</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Mission-Driven Nonprofits - Session #1</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/mission-driven-nonprofits-session-1</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2015 15:05:42 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8acdf3a8-b329-11eb-9f0f-7bc9010e4783/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>W/ Brian Sooy</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Servant Leadership in the Nonprofit </title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/servant-leadership-in-the-nonprofit</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2014 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8adf376c-b329-11eb-9f0f-5fcc2d8e11a1/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Dr. Kathleen Patterson</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>2295</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Conflict in the Nonprofit</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/conflict-in-the-nonprofit</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2014 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8af0ba46-b329-11eb-9f0f-b7cc044dab93/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Bill Stierle</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>3421</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Building Social Good</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/building-social-good</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2014 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8b028e24-b329-11eb-9f0f-0b565ac84bff/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Devin Thorpe from Your Mark on the World</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>2370</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Creating Awareness in Your Nonprofit</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/creating-awareness-in-your-nonprofit</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2014 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8b13e93a-b329-11eb-9f0f-ab4b9b3e0bdf/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ PR Expert - Cheryl Snapp Conner</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>2793</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Maintaining Corporate Compliance</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/maintaining-corporate-compliance</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2014 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8b2b4652-b329-11eb-9f0f-4bae6c2f40cf/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Aaron Young - CEO of Laughlin and Associates</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>1975</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Strategy for Social Benefit Organizations </title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/strategy-for-social-benefit-organizations</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2014 15:47:04 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8b5826fe-b329-11eb-9f0f-f306292be982/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>w/ Ed Bogle </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <itunes:duration>2360</itunes:duration>
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      <title>Do You Want to Raise Money?</title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/do-you-want-to-raise-money</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:00:00 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8b6aa78e-b329-11eb-9f0f-9306d910315e/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Building Funds Attraction with Sherita Herring</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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      <title>Its All About the Rhythm  </title>
      <link>https://nonprofitexchange.libsyn.com/its-all-about-the-rhythm</link>
      <description>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:44:08 -0000</pubDate>
      <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
      <itunes:author>Hugh Ballou</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://megaphone.imgix.net/podcasts/8b7c0a2e-b329-11eb-9f0f-d3f2175e14d3/image/The_Nonprofit_Exchange.png?ixlib=rails-4.3.1&amp;max-w=3000&amp;max-h=3000&amp;fit=crop&amp;auto=format,compress"/>
      <itunes:subtitle>Running Effective Mail Fundraising Campaigns w/ Bill Gilmer</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:summary>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</itunes:summary>
      <content:encoded>
        <![CDATA[<p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p>]]>
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